Yeah pretty much here. I still think this could go back to being pretty interesting though. I would not count it dead just yet. Maybe just Maybe something can pop into my head.
What If......
- Thread starter cheddar cheese
- Start date
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evangilder
"Shooter"
Hmmm, What if...something popped into Adler's head? 
Now that is a good What If...
evangilder
"Shooter"
hehe I couldn't resist!
It was a good question because I can not think of anything at all. What makes that wiered is there should be hundreds if not thousands of What ifs....
evangilder
"Shooter"
There was a news article years ago where they interviewed a WWI veteran who, in the closing days of WWI lowered his gun and decided not to fire on a wounded German corporal. That wounded corporal was none other than Adolph Hitler! What if he HAD fired?
Of course, with the choking demands of the Versaille Treaty, Germany was ripe for an extremist with good charisma. Would there have been a similar group to the Nazis, or maybe the Socialists would have taken over. It does pose an intersting What If.
Of course, with the choking demands of the Versaille Treaty, Germany was ripe for an extremist with good charisma. Would there have been a similar group to the Nazis, or maybe the Socialists would have taken over. It does pose an intersting What If.
That is a good one. I think that if Hitler had been killed, the Versaille treaty as we all know it would still have strangeled Germany but I dont think a Nazi party would have taken power. I think the communists would have. The thing is the German people were going to follow anyone who gave them the quickest and easiest way out of the quagmire they were in. If not for Hitler it would have been the next and I think that would have been the Communists. Also for a while in the 1920's the Communist party had a following among the German people. Not for long but just eneough.
Nonskimmer
Captain
From what I understood, the communists were most popular in Bavaria. Perhaps there would have been a civil war. Or maybe the German nation would have reverted back into multiple independent states?
evangilder
"Shooter"
Good point. Hitler's brownshirts did quite a number on the communists. The Reichstag fire conveniently put an end to the communists. I agree that it is likely that they would have taken power. It surely would have made Europe look a lot different.
I think the Communist would have taken power and eventually it would be allied with the Soviet Union and Europe as we know it today would be completely different. Its kind of scary actually. Maybe everything does happen for a reason. The Reichstag Fire conveniently put an end to all parties other than the NSDAP or the Nazis as we know of them.
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
Had Germany Allied itself with the Soviet Union I feel the war would have continued. The Western powers probably would have simply continued their drive to the East (Patton wanted to anyway).
That is true but in that case I believe the war would have dragged on for many many more years. The Russian soldiers resolve was great and they were hard to beat, just as any German soldier who fought on the East front. There seemed to be an endless number of Russian Soldiers.
Tell those troops on the Eastern front during Kursk that there was an endless supply of Russians. There's reports of captured children and old men, and a lot of commanders actually said that Russia was reaching its limits. Little did they know Kursk would be lost...and the war.
The Western Allies would have been able to bring down Germany and Russia with an extra few million dead but air power alone would have sealed it. The only problem on the ground, was the Russian IS-3 that made a lot of Western commander soil themselves during the May 7th Parade.
The Western Allies would have been able to bring down Germany and Russia with an extra few million dead but air power alone would have sealed it. The only problem on the ground, was the Russian IS-3 that made a lot of Western commander soil themselves during the May 7th Parade.
What I mean by the endless supply is that even the women and children would have stood up and fought it is just like if the allies had invaded Japan. Women and Children would have come down to the beaches and fought with whatever they had. The Russians were fighting for there homeland and no matter how crazy and backwards they were they were very proud and patriotic people.
I believe so too, there were a lot of people that saw Stalin as the ruthless tyrant that he was. Something that I find amazing is how Stalin was really no better then Hitler. He oppressed millions of people and killed millions also. That shows that the Victors always write the History books and that no one judges the side that wins.
Not to say that the German war crimes were not uncommen but there were crimes committed on both sides. Not as many as the Germans committed. I just hate it how innocent lives are wasted. My wife always says that the best place to be in a war is in the military because atleast you are trained for it and not subjected to the horrors as an innocent bystander.
Pland D just made a very strong point.
While there is no doubt the massive human resources available for the USSR played a vital role on soviet victory, I also agree, from what I have read so far, as well from the accounts of veterans, that the USSR, by the time of the German surrendering, was an exahusted and bled to death nation.
That their human resources were massive has never implied they were endless; no nation on earth, no matter how big it might be and how large its population is, can take what the USSR took during WWII without paying a very high cost.
During Operation Bagration (June 1944), the massive summer soviet offensive which pushed the Germans out of the USSR for good, there were countless reports from the frontline troops, informing on how bizarre the red army was becoming.
Along with the large numers of T-34s, self propelled artillerie regiments and massive artillery barrages, the soviets were sending big numbers of children, women, elder and impaired people; lots of them were hardly armed and countless were barefoot!!
I recall reading on several books, General Erhards Raus (commanding a Panzer Korps -forgot the number-) during the summer of 1944, reported that among the soviet prisoners captured were women who did their laundry only a few weeks ago in Minsk.
This seriously contradicts the commonly accepted version of a "totally new, fresh, lavishly equipped Red Army, with renewed tactis to destroy the Wehrmacht" emerging from the USSR during 1944.
History has managed to depict the soviet union recovered from the utterly brutal and nightmarish defeats of 1941/1942, just like if coming back from a series of "minor" setbacks and mishaps.
Indeed, after WWII the USSR was a world power. But the price and the consequences of WWII on its people have hardly been assessed so far.
This, alongside, with other elements, comprises the overall notion on how helpless the USSR would have been without foreign/allied help.
While there is no doubt the massive human resources available for the USSR played a vital role on soviet victory, I also agree, from what I have read so far, as well from the accounts of veterans, that the USSR, by the time of the German surrendering, was an exahusted and bled to death nation.
That their human resources were massive has never implied they were endless; no nation on earth, no matter how big it might be and how large its population is, can take what the USSR took during WWII without paying a very high cost.
During Operation Bagration (June 1944), the massive summer soviet offensive which pushed the Germans out of the USSR for good, there were countless reports from the frontline troops, informing on how bizarre the red army was becoming.
Along with the large numers of T-34s, self propelled artillerie regiments and massive artillery barrages, the soviets were sending big numbers of children, women, elder and impaired people; lots of them were hardly armed and countless were barefoot!!
I recall reading on several books, General Erhards Raus (commanding a Panzer Korps -forgot the number-) during the summer of 1944, reported that among the soviet prisoners captured were women who did their laundry only a few weeks ago in Minsk.
This seriously contradicts the commonly accepted version of a "totally new, fresh, lavishly equipped Red Army, with renewed tactis to destroy the Wehrmacht" emerging from the USSR during 1944.
History has managed to depict the soviet union recovered from the utterly brutal and nightmarish defeats of 1941/1942, just like if coming back from a series of "minor" setbacks and mishaps.
Indeed, after WWII the USSR was a world power. But the price and the consequences of WWII on its people have hardly been assessed so far.
This, alongside, with other elements, comprises the overall notion on how helpless the USSR would have been without foreign/allied help.
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
You are all overlooking one very important thing. The atomic bomb. America had it. The Soviet Union didn't. Granted this is an atrocious senario, but had the war progressed it most likely would have been used (especially since the Soviets had no deterent force in 1945).
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