What If......
- Thread starter cheddar cheese
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I will agree with you on that then, if the Soviets were already at there knees they would have not been able to fight much longer if the allies had gone into the USSR. Who knows if this had happened what would the world be like today. There would not have been a Cold War. If there had not been a Cold War what would have happened to the Axis countries Germand and Japan. How much would the allies have helped to rebuild them?
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
Hard to say. Japan wasn't expected to help very much through the Cold War. Their new constitution limited the military to a purely self defense force and yet America contributed greatly to rebuilding Japan. The process had even started well before the Cold War got into high gear. I imagine the situation in Germany would have been some what similar.
And I wasn't saying that the atomic weapons would have been needed but they were there and represented a dramatic shift in balace of power towards America and her allies.
And I wasn't saying that the atomic weapons would have been needed but they were there and represented a dramatic shift in balace of power towards America and her allies.
Good points, I just wonder if they would have placed so much emphasis on rebuilding them especially Germany. It is something that has always intrigued me.
GermansRGeniuses
Tech Sergeant
This worked and materialised?
Projekt 'Schwimmweste' - Schiessen mit der A4 von See aus
Direktor Lafferenz von der Deutschen Arbeitsfront hatte durch praktische Versuche nachgewiesen, dass ein U-Boot bis zu drei größte tauchfähige Schwimmkörper schleppen konnte. Mit U 1063 wurde der Unterwasserschlepp erprobt und zeigte nur minimale Probleme. Dadurch entstand die Frage, ob es möglich sei, in diesen Schwimmkörpern A 4-Raketen mitzuführen. Der Gedanke war, diese Raketen aus den Tauchbehältern zu starten. So entstand 1943 ein weiteres Projekt. Die Transport- und Verschussbehälter sollten eine Länge von 37 m und einen Durchmesser von 5,5 m haben. Bei der Größe sprach man von der enormen Wasserverdrängung von 500 Tonnen. Nach Erreichen des Zieles wäre das Heck geflutet worden und der Schwimmkörper hätte senkrecht gestanden und ca. 5 Meter aus dem Wasser geragt. Auf einer kreiselstabilisierten Plattform wäre das A 4 betankt und überprüft worden. Die Stromversorgung sollte durch das U-Boot erfolgen. Kurz vor dem Start hätte die Bedienermannschaft den Behälter verlassen. Das Startsignal wäre vom U-Boot aus gegeben worden. Auf dem Startweg innerhalb des Schwimmkörpers beabsichtigte man das A 4 in Schienen zu führen und den Gasstrahl über eine Schurre um l80° umzulenken, so dass er nach oben austreten konnte. Für die Fahrt über den Atlantik berechnete man bei 12 Seemeilen Geschwindigkeit zum geplanten Ziel (USA) etwa 30 Tage. Vorgesehen waren die sog. Elektro-U-Boote vom Typ XXI. Die Antriebstoffe wie flüssiger Sauerstoff und Äthylalkohol hätte man in den Schwimmkörpern neben der Rakete mitgeführt. Der Verlust an flüssigem Sauerstoff währen der Anfahrt wäre durch entsprechend große Tankbehälter auszugleichen gewesen. Das Projekt sollte in Verbindung mit der Stettiner Vulcanwerft erarbeitet werden. Noch am 9. Dezember 1944 fand bei der Waffen-Prüfabteilung 10 (Raketen) des Heereswaffenamtes eine Umfangreiche Besprechung statt. Bis Ende März 1945 sollten dann die Voruntersuchungen abgeschlossen sein. Im Februar 1945 wurde Peenemünde aber bereits geräumt. Auch die von der Werft begonnenen Muster konnten nicht mehr fertig gestellt werden.
Projekt 'Schwimmweste' - Schiessen mit der A4 von See aus
Direktor Lafferenz von der Deutschen Arbeitsfront hatte durch praktische Versuche nachgewiesen, dass ein U-Boot bis zu drei größte tauchfähige Schwimmkörper schleppen konnte. Mit U 1063 wurde der Unterwasserschlepp erprobt und zeigte nur minimale Probleme. Dadurch entstand die Frage, ob es möglich sei, in diesen Schwimmkörpern A 4-Raketen mitzuführen. Der Gedanke war, diese Raketen aus den Tauchbehältern zu starten. So entstand 1943 ein weiteres Projekt. Die Transport- und Verschussbehälter sollten eine Länge von 37 m und einen Durchmesser von 5,5 m haben. Bei der Größe sprach man von der enormen Wasserverdrängung von 500 Tonnen. Nach Erreichen des Zieles wäre das Heck geflutet worden und der Schwimmkörper hätte senkrecht gestanden und ca. 5 Meter aus dem Wasser geragt. Auf einer kreiselstabilisierten Plattform wäre das A 4 betankt und überprüft worden. Die Stromversorgung sollte durch das U-Boot erfolgen. Kurz vor dem Start hätte die Bedienermannschaft den Behälter verlassen. Das Startsignal wäre vom U-Boot aus gegeben worden. Auf dem Startweg innerhalb des Schwimmkörpers beabsichtigte man das A 4 in Schienen zu führen und den Gasstrahl über eine Schurre um l80° umzulenken, so dass er nach oben austreten konnte. Für die Fahrt über den Atlantik berechnete man bei 12 Seemeilen Geschwindigkeit zum geplanten Ziel (USA) etwa 30 Tage. Vorgesehen waren die sog. Elektro-U-Boote vom Typ XXI. Die Antriebstoffe wie flüssiger Sauerstoff und Äthylalkohol hätte man in den Schwimmkörpern neben der Rakete mitgeführt. Der Verlust an flüssigem Sauerstoff währen der Anfahrt wäre durch entsprechend große Tankbehälter auszugleichen gewesen. Das Projekt sollte in Verbindung mit der Stettiner Vulcanwerft erarbeitet werden. Noch am 9. Dezember 1944 fand bei der Waffen-Prüfabteilung 10 (Raketen) des Heereswaffenamtes eine Umfangreiche Besprechung statt. Bis Ende März 1945 sollten dann die Voruntersuchungen abgeschlossen sein. Im Februar 1945 wurde Peenemünde aber bereits geräumt. Auch die von der Werft begonnenen Muster konnten nicht mehr fertig gestellt werden.
GermansRGeniuses
Tech Sergeant
Babel Fish Translation
In English:
Project 'Schwimmweste' - shooting with the A4 von See out Director Lafferenz of the German work front had proven by practical attempts that a submarine up to three could drag largest dipable flotation chambers. With U 1063 underwaterdrag tested and showed only minimum problems. From the question resulted whether it was possible to carry in these flotation chambers A 4-Raketen. The thought was to start these rockets from the dipping containers. Thus 1943 a further project developed. The transportation and firing container should have a length of 37 m and a diameter of 5,5 m. With the size one spoke of the enormous water displacement of 500 tons. After reaching the goal the tail would have been flooded and the flotation chambers would have perpendicularly confessed and approx.. 5 meters risen up out of the water. On a gyro-stabilized platform A 4 would have been refuelled and examined. The current supply should take place via the submarine. Briefly before the start the operator crew would have left the container. The starting signal would have been given from the submarine. On the start distance within the flotation chamber one intended to lead A 4 in rails and to return the gas jet across a Schurre around l80°, so that he could withdraw upward. For the travel over the Atlantic one computed about 30 days with 12 nautical miles speed to the planned goal (the USA). Were intended sucked. Electrical submarines of the type XXI. One would have carried the drive materials like liquid oxygen and ethyl alcohol in the flotation chambers beside the rocket. The loss at liquid oxygen starts by according to large tank container lasts to be adjusted had. The project should be compiled in connection with the Stettiner Vulcanwerft. Still on 9 December 1944 an extensive discussion took place at the weapon test department 10 (rockets) of the office for army weapon. To at the end of March 1945 then the preliminary investigations should be final. In February 1945 Peenemuende was however already vacated. Also of did not throw samples begun could any longer be finished placed.
In English:
Project 'Schwimmweste' - shooting with the A4 von See out Director Lafferenz of the German work front had proven by practical attempts that a submarine up to three could drag largest dipable flotation chambers. With U 1063 underwaterdrag tested and showed only minimum problems. From the question resulted whether it was possible to carry in these flotation chambers A 4-Raketen. The thought was to start these rockets from the dipping containers. Thus 1943 a further project developed. The transportation and firing container should have a length of 37 m and a diameter of 5,5 m. With the size one spoke of the enormous water displacement of 500 tons. After reaching the goal the tail would have been flooded and the flotation chambers would have perpendicularly confessed and approx.. 5 meters risen up out of the water. On a gyro-stabilized platform A 4 would have been refuelled and examined. The current supply should take place via the submarine. Briefly before the start the operator crew would have left the container. The starting signal would have been given from the submarine. On the start distance within the flotation chamber one intended to lead A 4 in rails and to return the gas jet across a Schurre around l80°, so that he could withdraw upward. For the travel over the Atlantic one computed about 30 days with 12 nautical miles speed to the planned goal (the USA). Were intended sucked. Electrical submarines of the type XXI. One would have carried the drive materials like liquid oxygen and ethyl alcohol in the flotation chambers beside the rocket. The loss at liquid oxygen starts by according to large tank container lasts to be adjusted had. The project should be compiled in connection with the Stettiner Vulcanwerft. Still on 9 December 1944 an extensive discussion took place at the weapon test department 10 (rockets) of the office for army weapon. To at the end of March 1945 then the preliminary investigations should be final. In February 1945 Peenemuende was however already vacated. Also of did not throw samples begun could any longer be finished placed.
The theorie was correct however it never made it to operational status. If it had I dont think it would have caused anything more than fear in the United States. It is however the beginnings of the Submarine Ballistic Missile program and much of the work here started the US's.
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
And has continued to be perfected here in the US.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
however we have some of the finest balistic missile subs in the world...........
Nonskimmer
Captain
the lancaster kicks ass said:
Well, I can vouch for the crews. RN submariners know their game, there's no question!
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
what can i say, the team works............
Lightning Guy
Master Sergeant
- 2,511
- Apr 29, 2004
Yes you do. Using American designed missles and reactors based off of American designs. And as fine a boat as the Vanguard is, it still is inferior to the Ohios.
Nonskimmer
Captain
And once again, the gauntlet is cast.
The old english speakers of the world anonymous rivalry has flared up again! You have to love it, when this happens I just want to sit back and watch. Its great. Quite amusing.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
it happens allot on this site, question is, who threw down the gauntlet??
Nonskimmer
Captain
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
I agree. Let's watch!
Im selling tickets.
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
LG threw down the gauntlets..... Lets see if The Lanc picks em up....
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
is it just me Vs. LG??
No most of the time it is a lot of people versus LG.
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