What kind of car do you drive?

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Problems with the Hummer H1 I would suggest are

1) Its thirst. You wouldn't want to pay for the fuel at European prices.
2) Its size. Try parking one in a car park anywhere in the world outside the USA, and maybe the USA cannot remember the size of the spaces
3) Its load capacity. The only one I have seen only had four seats no doubt there are others
4) Its noisy
5) Its doesn't know which way is the front
6) It must be expensive
7) Where do you put the hay
 
cheddar cheese said:
Firstly, The Defender is possibly the best off road vehicle of all time...It will go anywhere, any surface, any weather...The Jeep may well be the best of the SUV's but the humble defender will trounce all on the rough stuff...
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No the Jeep beat out the Defender on the off road. Both the Defender and the Jeep are in catagories called the "mountain climbing vehicals" and the Jeep came in first with the Defender a very close second. I really do need to post these stats and links. I will try to do so tomorrow.

cheddar cheese said:
A Defender could haul an 8 ton boat behind it as well, but I dont think theres even enough room inside the Jeep to fit the 1 ton bale.
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Actually the Jeep beats out the Defender in that catagory as well:

Cargo Volume
Defender: 38.7 to 45.0 in (79.3 for the Defender 110 High Capacity Pick Up, but guess what Lanc that is a pick up truck now... oh and the 130 has 65.7 still less cargo space than the Jeep)
Jeep Grand Cherokee: 68.5 in.

Here is some more stats (to be fair I took the best stat Defender has to offer whether it is from a 90, 110, 130 or any varient of that)

Track
Defender: 59.5
Jeep Grand Cherokee: 62.0

Interior Width
Defender: 56.3
Jeep: 72.6

Gross Vehical Weight:

Defender: 6100lb
Jeep: 6150lb

Tow Capability

Defender: 7000lb
Jeep: 7400lb

Engine HP:

Defender: 135hp
Jeep: Between 215hp and 420hp depending on the model.

There are many many more aspects that I could post. Some the Jeep was better and some the Defender was better. What I am getting at here is this both are great vehicals but there are other vehicals such as the Jeep that are just as good or passing the Defender as we speak.

The Defender is a great great vehical, please dont take me wrong.

cheddar cheese said:
Power isnt everything...
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Actually power is a lot when you are trying to tow that 7000 lb whatever plus your vehical is filled up weighing in at 5000lb. You want power.

cheddar cheese said:
And you cant play the 'bias of patriotism' card on me, cos im the first person to slag off the British
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Dont worry I wont with you. I just think it is funny that lanc and some people rag on others for thinking the P-38 or other stuff is the greatest thing since bread and butter when they are the most guilty of it, thinking that anything British is the best thing since bread and butter.
 
mkloby said:
So - one set of facts proves defender superior, and another the Jeep superior in off-road capability... What about HMMWV, how does she stack up? I would htink she poops on both.
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I dont know about civilian HMMWV but the military ones suck. Yeah they look cool but they are not very good. They get stuck in half the **** that a Jeep and a Defender would go right on through in and the military HMMWVs fall apart, especially in the desert environment.

Trust me I know I have had plenty of experience with the military version over the last half decade in all kind of environments.
 
I'm sorry to hear that Adler. The off road rags rave about H1s (not same as milspec HMMWV).

Yes H1s are expensive. To my knowledge, unless surplus, they have been discontinued for H2 and H3...which are not a Hummer. Thus not much pool to choose from. Supply and demand folks.

Yes they guzzle gas. But what do you expect. They too are not an SUV, but rather more like a tractor.

They do not have much interior room. Yeah that's because the transmission runs down the middle of the beast so that it can clear 18in obstacles, for God's sake.

Noisy? Not like milspec. C'mon their insulated and mufflered.

Wide? Hell ya. They don't tip over when crawling.

But then you could always get on of these bad boys.
 

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Like I said I dont know about the civilian Hummers...

I am sure though that they are not as loud as the military ones that you can hear from a mile away.
 

Really? That's not been my experience w/ them... we've had them out in the trails in Quantico climbing all over the hills, mud, ice, snow, and rain. They never had much trouble negotiating reasonable obstacles from my experience w/ them.

Trying to look up some specifications on the hmmwv, further complicated by the fact that there are umpteen different models, and newer ones that were just recently developed.

Gross Vehicle weight: 12,100 (seems to be the new armored models)
civilian hummer has tow capacity of 9,000lbs
civvy hummer has a track of 72"
6.5L V8 turbo diesel (190 hp, 385 lbs-ft) newest eng mounted
Can negotiate 30" water, with fording equip can nav 5ft of water.
Ground clearance is 16" (defender seems 8.5"/ cherokee i believe is 8")
Just some of the figures I found for the HMMWV, had to use a couple civvy stats because I couldn't find military ratings for those areas.

Like I said, I've never had any of the hum-vees that were tracking w/ us evey have any problems off-roading in any foul terrain. Now I will say I haven't had them w/ us in desert environment... yet.
 
mkloby said:
Really? That's not been my experience w/ them... we've had them out in the trails in Quantico climbing all over the hills, mud, ice, snow, and rain. They never had much trouble negotiating reasonable obstacles from my experience w/ them.
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Not talking about negotiating obstacles here. Sorry if you misundestood me. I am talking about reliability in harsh environments. She does not stack up to well. Our units Hummers (we only had 3) were constantly in the hanger being worked on because the dust and the fine sand was killing them.

As for the negotiating obstacles. Yeah she can go most places but I dont know how many times I would get our Hummer stuck on the hill leading up to post in the really icey conditions of Snowing Germany in winter time Bavaria but I could up them with my Jeep without a problem and I had to drive my Jeep up that hill every day to get to work.
 

Makes me wonder if the differential was working properly or the tires were worn.
 
Interesting stats Adler, im actually a little surprised. Where are they from?

Actually power is a lot when you are trying to tow that 7000 lb whatever plus your vehical is filled up weighing in at 5000lb. You want power.
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Yes, but compare the towing capabilities of the two vehicles, and then compare the BHP levels.

Tow Capability

Defender: 7000lb
Jeep: 7400lb

Engine HP:

Defender: 135hp
Jeep: Between 215hp and 420hp depending on the model.


Very small difference in tow weight but large difference in the BHP. Is the tow weight for the Jeep based on the Diesel or V8? The Defender has a large amount of torque which is why it can pull it off im guessing, as well as extremely tough construction.

(BTW, perhaps you should use figures for the Bowler WIldcat. The ultimate Land Rover. Does a Jeep come with a large onboard water supply for desert survival? )


As a side note, you wouldnt get a H1 around any off road sites here. Its too bloody big.
 
Tow weight means nothing more than ability to safely move tow trailer without inducing unsafe condition with either light front end or overloaded rear axle. Says nothing about being able to tow said weight over a 2500m mountain pass at 110kph.
 
i too am interested in where those figures came from as they're hogswash! 7,400Lbs is a bit over 3 tons, that;s wrong for a start so it makes me questoin where you got them from! and i'm not up on my American jeeps, can you post some pictures of the jeeps your on about please Adler? and some sources for the stats........
 
cheddar cheese said:
Interesting stats Adler, im actually a little surprised. Where are they from?
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Jeep - 4x4 - SUV - Off Road Vehicles
www.http://www.landroverusa.com/us/...er=I_05paidsearch_yahoo_LandRoverUsa_20050915
Karl on Cars - Jeep Commander versus Land Rover LR3
Jeep Grand Cherokee vs. Land Rover Freelander Reviews and Comparisons




cheddar cheese said:
Is the tow weight for the Jeep based on the Diesel or V8? The Defender has a large amount of torque which is why it can pull it off im guessing, as well as extremely tough construction.
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It is for the V8 however the 6 cyl can pull the same with less horse power.

cheddar cheese said:
(BTW, perhaps you should use figures for the Bowler WIldcat. The ultimate Land Rover. Does a Jeep come with a large onboard water supply for desert survival? )
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Nope but I dont ever plan on getting stuck in another desert again!
 


No they are not hogwash. It is absolute truth. I also have my Jeep Manual sitting right next to me, with the same figures in it from the won that I drive right now (well that I was driving, I will explain below).

Is it so hard to admit that there is quality outside of England. Let the national pride go abit here Lanc. It makes you look foolish when you claim that somethign can not pull 7400lb. Your beloved Defender can pull 7000lb as well.

I am not saying that Land Rovers are shitty cars. The only think that I like better about the Jeep is the way they look over a Land Rover. Quality I think they are about the same. If I would not buy a Jeep, I would buy a Land Rover.

I posted the links up at the top. Also you can go and download the respective manuals from the official sites.

Here are some pics of the types of vehicals that Jeep makes.
 

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Okay now for the story as to why I can not drive my Jeep Grand Cherokee anymore.

I was driving home from work last night and was on a nice priority road when a Chinook Pilot decided to not yield even though I was in the priority and drive right into the side of my Jeep with his nice beautiful BMW Z3 convertable. He T-Boned me!

Anyhow my Jeep actually came out really good with just some nice denting on the right side doors. The only reason I do not want to drive it is, because I have to wait till monday to turn it into the Shop to have the estimate done for the insurance company so that I can have it fixed and the paint job re done on it and I dont want something else to happen to it before the car is looked at.

Needless to say his BMW did not fair to well and the front was pretty destroyed. As he was driving away after it was all over and settled (his fault ofcourse) the rest of the car started to fall away!

Anyhow I will the car fixed starting next week and have a new paint job on it. Until then I will take the rental car that the insurance company is going to pay and since the only rentals that the shop has are brand new Jeep Grand Cherokees or Mercedes SLKs or Crossfires I will drive in style until my own Beloved Grand Cherokee is fixed.
 
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