What's on The Workbench (27 Viewers)

[A4K]

Just to muddy the water some more, Squadron-Signal's 'Spitfire in Action' has a photo of Mk.24 W2-B (VN-???) in 1949, just after arrival at Kai Tak, Hong Kong. Codes appear to be a straight light blue with no outline or shadow.
Same book has a colour profile of Mk.24 W2-T (VN307), supposedly 1950, with all white code letters. Better to trust the photo I reckon.

 

[jjp_nl]

Hmm, thanks for looking this up. If this ends up being a totally unconfirmed set of markings I could always try and use the ones provided by the kit (white W2-A) paired with better quality general markings provided by the EagleStrike sheet. Maybe shortly before or shortly after being shipped from Germany to Hong Kong (in other words without the b/w striping)

 

[jjp_nl]

[oops...double post]

 

[A4K]

No worries Jelmer - the joys of research, eh?

 

[jjp_nl]

true....funny, how research mostly seems to result in yet more things to research rather then answers to a certain set of questions (if only I had arranged to get paid for it, like a buddy of mine )

The transfer from Germany to Hong Kong period seem to offer the most reference material and it seems to me 80Sqn a/c were a mixed bunch in terms of markings/roundels use. So I just might get away with doing (white) W2-A with sky band and type 'D' roundels.

(if only I hadn't installed them rocket mounts, I could have easily picked a MK.22 now it's just 80Sqn MK.24)

 

[Airframes]

That's one of the pics I have of their aircraft. The code letters are 'Sky', not white as shown in the profile.(Note the same tonal hue of the codes and the 'Sky' tail band.)
On the page for 80 Sqn on the raf.org web site, there is a profile showing the blue and white codes, and this is the only reference I have seen for this combination. Although the profiles on this site are basic representations to show the aircraft used by each squadron during it's existance, there have been a number of errors in the depiction of colour details etc.
However, that's not to say that this one particular airframe did not carry the 'stylised' codes, but it seems unusual, and all photos of the Squadron's Spit 24s I have seen carried the standard 'Sky' codes.
The spinners were originally 'Sky', although when in Hong Kong, when the blue was added, it appears that the remaining 'Sky' was also overpainted in white.

 

[jjp_nl]

Sound like a perfectly reasonable explanation Terry, although looking at what pic's I have gathered of the MK.24 sofar I can also understand where people come from when they assume these fuselage letters are white. Depending on printing quality, and quality of the pictures in the first place, maybe the direction of the (sun)light and such, and then using the same technique you used (that is looking at tonal hue of the codes compared to reference points such as the Sky band or the roundels) the codes look all the world like the white used on the roundels, so there you have it. Same goes for the spinner.

Paired perhaps with incomplete knowledge of all the rules and regulations regaring the use of colors on markings (I tried to look into it honestly, but it didn't take a long time for me to get confused) or perhaps the simple fact that in the post war years certain exceptions were maybe more likely to be made to promote 'esprit de corps' (80Sqn unit badge for example?) Who knows how these pictures end up being interpreted.

Bottom line (sofar) is:
No matter what version I end up doing (either the blue/white W2-P or some sort of Hybrid using white W2-A Airfix markings paired with what decals the EagleStrike sheet has to offer) They are likely to be wrong one way or the other (taking the rules/regulations at the time into account and the 'mystery of light blue with drop shadows) unless both can be confirmed to to have special deviating markings of sorts ....in short I fear I'll end up doing what I like best

 

[Airframes]

No problem, probably the best way to look at it !

 

[A4K]

Good approach Jelmer!

Terry, just a by-the-by, but the codes in the photo I posted appear (to me atleast) darker than the sky tail band, though not as dark as the tip of the spinner. The sky fueslage band and rear of spinner seem to match and are lighter than the codes. Admittedly this is more apparent in the original book photo than the photo I took of it.

 

[Airframes]

There is a possibility that they were a colour other than 'Sky', but all references I have give the colour at the time as 'Sky', for UK and BAFO aircraft, and I haven't seen any evidence of other colours deviating from standard specifications. The airframes were finished in the standard scheme as of January 5th 1945, although of course 80 Sqn didn't receive the Mk24s until January 1948, and certaily RAuxAF Mk22s had 'Sky' codes.
However, as this was the only regular RAF squadron operating the type, with most other fighter squadrons having converted to jets, it is possible, if not probable, that the codes could have been white, as they were on bombers by then. Interesting that the original Matchbox issue of the 1/32nd scale Mk24 had white 80 Sqn codes, as does the same kit, re-released under the Revell lable. I've just checked some other refs of colour profiles, and they also show white code letters for this squadron, with B&W pics also showing what appear to be white letters, but I still can't find any reference to blue codes, or blue and white codes, other than the one mentioned on the raf.org web site.

 

[jjp_nl]

Could the white codes possibly have been used in order to emphasize a role as groundsupport/bombing unit (rather then air supriority/fighter which maybe was better carried out by jets at that time) The kit comes with rockets and looking at the specs and pics of the Mk.24 it could carry bombs too?

Either way, Maybe I could still just remove the rocket mounts and go MK.22 in the end. A MK.22 of the RauxAF that took part in the 1949 Cooper Trophy Air Race looks to be an interesting set of markings as well. I would have to slightly rework the wing undersurfaces, remove the rocket mounts and fill/sand/polish a few mounting holes and repaint some Medium Sea Grey

I also dropped a line on Hyperscale on this matter to see if anything came of it. I got this reply.
"There was an article, on 80 Squadron, in Scale Models, January 1978, and another in Aircraft Modelworld, and, though there's no photo of W2-P, all of the other aircraft have solid one-colour codes, mostly appearing to be white. W2-P was the C.O.'s second aircraft, a replacement for VN319, which had crashed. According to Peter Cooksley, in A.M., it originally had bright blue codes, but these were later repainted in white; there's no mention of "shadow-painting." The only "shadow-painting" that I can find was in the serial nos, when they were overpainted by the Korean war stripes in 1950. W2-P had a white spinner; all of the others were red/white, or blue/white, depending on the Flight to which they were attached"

 

[Airframes]

Ah Ha! Those are the magazine articles I was remembering! I can't be sure, but it's very possible that, when in Hong Kong, the code colours used were brought in line with those on bombers and ground attack aircraft, that is, white.
To go to a Mk22 is easy - apart from the areas you mention Jelmer, the cannon barrels need to be changed to the alternative set, and the markings you describe are for 607 (County of Durham) Sqn, RAuxAF, which was my local Sqn when I was a boy in the North East of England.(pic attached).
I was going to do either that one, in normal sqn markings, or one from what was the local sqn where I now live.

 

[A4K]

Great info guys!

Always amazes me the amount of variation in markings, paintschemes and colouring despite official regulations - reasons varying from the time between a new regulation being imposed to the time it came into effect on the production line, field improvised markings conforming to new regs, misunderstanding a new regulation, or (as in NZ and Australia) remaining stocks of previously required colours having to be used up first before the new colours started!

Modelmaking and aircraft research wouldn't be half as fun without these instances!

 

[jjp_nl]

No need to change cannon barrels. Based on the EagleStrike decal set the Mk.24 W2-P I initially wanted to do had the longer barrels/fairings also, so these have already been installed (I believe of all MK.24 produced as a whole only a few got the short barrel/fairings in the end) Plus, I think I might need to omit a little resin part just behind the cockpit (additional Aires and Eduard instructions show this need to be installed on the Mk.24 only, maybe it's a visible part of the additional fuel tanks in the rear fuselage of the MK.24)

Actually, the EagleStrike set provides markings for PK-430(?) RAQ-G of 610 (County of Chester) Sqn....well somewhat

Except, upon closer inspection ...the EagleStrike sheet doesn't have the underwing decal PK430 on it, but PK596 (which is a different MK.22 as far as I can tell)

As far as markings go...this is starting to become a real sh*t sandwich.

 

[A4K]

What size and style of underwing codes would you need Jelmer? Got sheets of letters that might be of help.

(And you know what they say...Life's a sh!t sandwich - and every day is lunchtime! )

 

[Airframes]

Ah, of course - it was Eduard's release of the Airfix kit which had the 607 Sqn decals. The one above is (was) the local squadron for where I now live, in Cheshire, although the nearest RAuxAF unit was 613 Sqn (City of Manchester) at Ringway (Manchester Airport), which is the one I'll probably do.
It would be easy to make your own under-wing serial decals on the PC.

 

[A4K]

(...if you know how, Terry! Like the eskimo said regarding the housing shortage: 'I 'av'n igloo!' )

 

[jjp_nl]

Good point Terry! I've been looking for a good opportunity to try and print some decals. Doing a basic black number doesn't seem all that hard (right font accurate sizing). I think I already got some decal paper hidden somewhere. I'll look into that first.

 

[Wayne Little]

Man, I gotta do one of them spitties....

 

[jjp_nl]

You should Wayne! As far a building it goes, this Airfix kit is a true gem. Looks pretty sharp OOB, but also leaves plenty of room to take it to another level in terms of detailing (which I intend to do on a second Spitty 22/24 for which I'm still fathering some resin bits and pieces here and there and some PE thingy and such) Paint-scheme's/Markings also make for an interesting project. This standard RAF camo version with interesting markings, Bare Metal finishes, more tropicalized in terms of colors (think azure blue over midstone/dark earth) for nations such as Syria and Rhodesia (also with some lovely obscure markings)

I think it's a shame these late Griffon-powered beasts aren't seen that much in the world of scale modelling (I guess the Merlin powered versions attract more people) To my personal taste the Mk.22/MK.24 doesn't have all that much to do anymore with Spitfire (I think I'm not the only as I read somewhere this puppy initally wasn't even meant to be called Spitfire), but it sure as h!ll looks the part with it smooth lines, big Spiteful tail, and mighty big 5-blade prop. Plus, for me there's also a bit of childhood thing to it. My old man was an avid modeller back in the day (before me and my brother/sisters came along) and in my bedroom for as long as I can rememver there were two 1/32 models hanging on the ceiling, being the vintage Matchbox Spitty 22/24 W2-P chasing Gallands BF-109E (also Matchbox 1/32)

EDIT:
I made a start with working on some home made decals BTW. Funny enough, I started out by looking at some IL-2 Game Modders communities to try and look for some RAF fonts (there's a pretty lively scene of folks doing custom scheme's/marking sets for the planes in the game so I figured somebody must have put together a set of usable basic templates/fonts for all nations in the game) and indeed found a usable RAF font. Now it's on to resizing it to appropriate size for a decal and maybe to a few test runs