When a man's Honor meant something ...
- Thread starter michaelmaltby
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vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
How we could use more men like that today.
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
Those were different times. The last of the "Knights", if you will.
It truly ended at the beginning of the 20th century. Those type of things are not likely to be seen again.
It truly ended at the beginning of the 20th century. Those type of things are not likely to be seen again.
Wow what a story!
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
I agree. That was the time when a man's word was his bond.
Wildcat
Major
Great story!
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- #7
michaelmaltby
Colonel
This being one year from the 100th WWI anniversary, I think it is constructive to focus on what made WW1 such a catastrophe ... such a WORLD War.
In an unrelated thread -- 1913, Last August of Peace -- one poster has emphasized that there was no peace in 1913, that vicious wars were raging per usual, and his is a fair and valid point. But what made WWI so western-civilization-destroying was how it spun out of control. From a terrorist assassination in Sarajevo to 'the world'. It was this that was unprecedented .... the product of new technologies, new political realities and prolonged build-up and feinting over more than 20 years.
As we watch the situation in Syria, in the summer of 2013, I have to wonder and fear the possibility that the gassing of his own people by Syrian President Assad could trip an escalating chain reaction of actions and reactions. While the White House seems (officially, at least) unwilling to recognize reality -- the reality nonetheless is that the M.E. is in the midst of a war between Sunni and Shia power brokers: Saudi Arabia and Iran. A 'surgical' strike by any third party is not going to alter that reality. Assad's father brutalized his opponents just as Saddam Hussein did with his. Both keeping the lid on delicate, fragmented pseudo countries that owe their very existence to the Treaty of Versailles in 1918. As indeed does Israel
In 1914 - Russia escalated the tension between Serbia and the Austrian Empire and its allies by playing the Pan Slav Big Brother protector card. In hindsight, if Russia and Germany had both stayed out of the politics and posturing after the assassination, the whole thing could have been contained.
But words provoke words, actions provoke actions ... and so it goes.
This has the makings of conflagration .... in this summer of 2013.
MM
In an unrelated thread -- 1913, Last August of Peace -- one poster has emphasized that there was no peace in 1913, that vicious wars were raging per usual, and his is a fair and valid point. But what made WWI so western-civilization-destroying was how it spun out of control. From a terrorist assassination in Sarajevo to 'the world'. It was this that was unprecedented .... the product of new technologies, new political realities and prolonged build-up and feinting over more than 20 years.
As we watch the situation in Syria, in the summer of 2013, I have to wonder and fear the possibility that the gassing of his own people by Syrian President Assad could trip an escalating chain reaction of actions and reactions. While the White House seems (officially, at least) unwilling to recognize reality -- the reality nonetheless is that the M.E. is in the midst of a war between Sunni and Shia power brokers: Saudi Arabia and Iran. A 'surgical' strike by any third party is not going to alter that reality. Assad's father brutalized his opponents just as Saddam Hussein did with his. Both keeping the lid on delicate, fragmented pseudo countries that owe their very existence to the Treaty of Versailles in 1918. As indeed does Israel
In 1914 - Russia escalated the tension between Serbia and the Austrian Empire and its allies by playing the Pan Slav Big Brother protector card. In hindsight, if Russia and Germany had both stayed out of the politics and posturing after the assassination, the whole thing could have been contained.
But words provoke words, actions provoke actions ... and so it goes.
This has the makings of conflagration .... in this summer of 2013.
MM
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Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
WW1 was the first European war that involved so many civilians 'volunteering' or being conscripted. Failure to go to the front meant a white feather and deep shame. There were other events like Jutland showing that the RN was not invincible and the Zeppelin raids on Britain heralded 'total war'.
More than that it was the sheer attrition rate that still shocks us here. I cannot image what it must have felt like to have somehow got through WW1, the depression only to have to face another conflict in 1939.
More than that it was the sheer attrition rate that still shocks us here. I cannot image what it must have felt like to have somehow got through WW1, the depression only to have to face another conflict in 1939.
Exactly why Germany was one of several powers who wouldn't allow the "balloon clause" into the Hague Conventions. Only 556 people were killed by the Zeppelin bombing (and 857 by bombs dropped from aircraft) but the reaction was out of all proportion to the casualties and damage done. There's not much chivalry to be found here.
When on 2nd September 1916, a British pilot, Lieutenant W. Leefe-Robinson, of 39 Squadron RFC, flying a B.E. 2c, actually shot down a Schutte-Lanz airship, Serial # S.L.11, in flight over the town of Cuffley, North of the city of London, a feat for which he received a V.C. 10,000 people turned up to see the wreckage!
He was not the first. On the 6th June 1915, an attempt by three Zeppelins to bomb Southern England was aborted due to bad weather and a British fighter pilot, Sub-Lieutenant Warneton, was able to destroy one of them with a bomb, over the Belgian City of Ghent. He too was awarded the Victoria Cross.
Cheers
Steve
IMHO Why waste honor on the POS Kaiser, who arguably was responsible for plunging the world into the bloodbath that was WWI? It was this kind of honor, or obedience if you will, that allowed such slaughter.
To put all the blame on the Kaiser and Germany is pretty simplistic. There were so many factors and all the major nations had their fingers intertwined in it.
Yeah, you're probably right Chris, but I still think the Kaiser was a POS, but hey I liked the movie "Pearl Harbor" so there's that...
You know I like this thread. I agree that in those days a mans word was his bond and handshake sealed a deal. But it was also a day when society shunned dishonest behavior. If your reputation was a bad one no one wanted to have anything to do with you. Now we measure a person by their wealth and power, no matter how they got it!
The funny thing is that honesty and honor could still be the norm, if we put value on it again. But in our world today honesty is taken as weakness and everyone takes advantage of it. Pretty sad where we've ended up.
The funny thing is that honesty and honor could still be the norm, if we put value on it again. But in our world today honesty is taken as weakness and everyone takes advantage of it. Pretty sad where we've ended up.
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
Kaiser Wilhelm II was a jerk. There is no argument. But there was more to it than just that. There were many more idiots involved. It goes back to various treaties, and assurance agreements that were in place in 1900's European diplomacy.
If the Central powers had prevailed, The Kaiser would have been known as a great leader, and possibly, a unifier of the European continent as we know it now.
Just sayin'!
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Back in those days, a man's honor of high value. Even courts of law recognized a handshake as a legal binding agreement.
As far as Europe at the turn of the century is concerned, it was a serious powder keg with many fuses waiting to be lit...
The colonial powers were jostling each other, complicated alliances that were changing almost by the day and the civilians were becoming inspired by a new socialist movement. It was simply a matter of time before it all erupted into a sh!tstorm.
As far as Europe at the turn of the century is concerned, it was a serious powder keg with many fuses waiting to be lit...
The colonial powers were jostling each other, complicated alliances that were changing almost by the day and the civilians were becoming inspired by a new socialist movement. It was simply a matter of time before it all erupted into a sh!tstorm.
Thorlifter
Captain
What an awesome story.
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
Zeppelin bombs or the Western Front?
Yup, in my opinion, France and Russia are especially responsible for WW1. Wilhelm actually has been trying to avoid the stuff, so blaming him would be plainly wrong in my eyes. Unfortunately this could not be said about all german leaders.
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