parsifal
Colonel
Good points. And i largely agree. I was trying to apply a very narrow definition...."who fired the first shots = the aggressor". Not a great definiation to apply I admit
When a man's Honor meant something ...
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Good points. And i largely agree. I was trying to apply a very narrow definition...."who fired the first shots = the aggressor". Not a great definiation to apply I admit
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Like it's been said before, Europe was a powder keg with many fuses waiting to be lit.
It was simply a matter of time before someone blinked. It just so happend that Archduke Ferdinand was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the whole house of cards came tumbling down.
If it wasn't that incident, it would have been something else. Perhaps a shipping accident, a train derailment or an accidental gunshot across a border by an edgy soldier...hard to say what an alternate trigger could have been, but the fact remains that it would have eventually happened.
It was simply a matter of time before someone blinked. It just so happend that Archduke Ferdinand was in the wrong place at the wrong time and the whole house of cards came tumbling down.
If it wasn't that incident, it would have been something else. Perhaps a shipping accident, a train derailment or an accidental gunshot across a border by an edgy soldier...hard to say what an alternate trigger could have been, but the fact remains that it would have eventually happened.
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And yes I do agree with you as well in general terms.
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michaelmaltby
Colonel
"....If it wasn't that incident, it would have been something else. Perhaps a shipping accident, a train derailment or an accidental gunshot across a border by an edgy soldier...hard to say what an alternate trigger could have been ...."
Indeed. Who knows. Perhaps an attack on a German radio station by Polish "commandoes" .... no, wait, that ones been used.
Indeed. Who knows. Perhaps an attack on a German radio station by Polish "commandoes" .... no, wait, that ones been used.
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Never has a family feud cost so much in human life....
Indeed...
I starting reading through my ww1 books again. What a horrific war. Lives were thrown away like paper napkins. Take for instance the 3rd battle of Ieperen, fought in july 1917: in 10 days, the British lost 340.000 casualties and the Germans 250.000. The line only moved 8km. During the whole war, the fights around the Ypres Salient claimed 1.000.000 lives 
And people still wanted to fight again 20 years later. I guess that shows that people just don't learn.
And people still wanted to fight again 20 years later. I guess that shows that people just don't learn.
I like this simple round-up: World War I - RationalWiki
Great site
Like this quote about the summary of the war:
Code:
The Russians were rushin' the Prussians;
The Prussians were crushin' the Russians.
The Balkans were balkin' and Turkey was squawkin'
Rasputin disputin' and Italy hootin'.
The Boches all bulled Bolshevikis;
The British were watching the sea.
But the good Lord I'm thankin'
The Yanks started yankin',
And yanked Kaiser Bill up a tree.
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
Ummm.... I think it would be fairer to say that Kaiser yanked himself up the tree by taking on too much....
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Should have gone to the bierpalast instead old boy....
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
Or built better tanks
silence
Senior Airman
I think that might be a little strong. The way I understand it is:
In 1914 most citizens of the belligerents were excited about going off to war and figured they'd give the foe a good pummeling and would be home by Christmas. Bells were ringing and parades marching and all that sort of crap. Then the horror set in.
In 1939, huge portions of the populations of the belligerents (including AFAIK Nazi Germany) still had vivid memories of the carnage of the "Great" War. There were no bells ringing, no ticker-tape parades, just an international collection of normal people who held their breath as the great plunge down began. If war had truly been wanted, I don't think there would have been a Munich nor an Anschluss and France would have marched into the Rhineland in '36.
"On, on, on cried the leaders at the back."
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
The Germans slept walked into Nazi ideology, the frightening thing is that not every German was that keen on Hitler. The French hid behind the Maginot line and the British watched and hoped it would all just go away....
As for wanting to fight, well... we had no choice.
I cannot speak for France and the Netherlands. Its different being invaded.
The biggest irony is that securing European liberty bankrupted Britain (again).
silence
Senior Airman
I would say that Britain did in fact have a choice: it well could have abandoned Poland just like Czechoslovakia. Perhaps Britain and France could have moved against Germany immediately and broken Germany had they have had the political will in '39. Perhaps Britain (and France) should have declared war on the USSR when they invaded Poland to get their share of the spoils, or maybe when the USSR moved on Finland (though they may have laughing too hard at the ass-kicking little Finland dealt to the Russian bear to do anything). Britain had a number of alternate choices she could have (I'm sure some say should have) made.
But regardless of the "what-ifs" and "should haves", Britain made the hard, self-sacrificing moral choice with the result that she sacrificed her empire in pursuit and attainment of a higher cause.
Readie
Chief Master Sergeant
There are always choices. Every country made its own choice and had to live with the consequences.
The ripples of those choices are still felt today in Europe.
silence
Senior Airman
Exactly. Its all too rare when someone makes the morally right choice rather than the easy one.
meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
Not to get "political", but the U.S. used to be just that; morally right in helping other countries.
Lately,... well, I'm not so sure.
Back to modeling!
Lately,... well, I'm not so sure.
Back to modeling!
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Technically, with the lessons learned from other's mistakes over the past 2,000 years (at the very least), you'd think that humanity would have fugured out how to avert armed conflict long before now.
But sadly, this is not the case.
But sadly, this is not the case.
silence
Senior Airman
But when you consider how quiet its been in Europe since '45 (not counting the former Yugoslavia: its/they're in a class all their own) and take into account all the bloodshed dating back to the Romans and before, perhaps there is reason to hope.
