When an Enemy Was a Friend

[GrauGeist]

I'm a little confused here...

If that original post was a repost of information from the man himself, then how is it the grand-daughter has more accurate information?

As far as the actual information goes, according to USAAF records, the information as posted WAS correct, Glamour Gal was grounded and the Dotty Jane substituted and was hit by 88 Flak on 6 March 1944, killing the radio operator and wounding two crewmen. The Dotty Jane (B-17G-5-BO/42-31227) was able to return to it's base at Rattlesden, where it was declared unfit for repair, committed to salvage on 7 March 1944 (MACR 2278).

Here's a page with some information and two photos of the aircraft, showing the damage after it's return from the mission: 42-31227

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I am Lyman Emrich's granddaughter-the name mentioned in the post above by Chingachgook. I found this forum because his name is posted on it, with inaccurate information...

including his death. How insulting for a decorated war hero.

He was a tail gunner, and he was shot down over Berlin in the Dottie Jane, not his plane the Glamour Gal- both B-17s. He was shot in his buttocks and had a lot of shrapnel removed from his hips. He received a purple heart and was sent home. He was stationed in Rattlesden England. He was in the 8th AF, 447th bomb group. 747th squadron (I think). He flew 13 missions, and on the 13th he was shot down. He was one of the only Flying Cadets in the Tri-State area. The list of crewman posted in one post is accurate, as it is pulled from another website that I posted FOR my grandfather several years before he died. I was helping him find lost comrades.

I would appreciate it if you would remove the inaccurate post made my Chingachgook who doesn't have the information or the permission to post about him.

My grandfather didn't die in 2003. He died in 2005. He was a great man, and I miss him more than anyone could ever know. I don't know who Chingachgook is, but they are sorely misinformed.

x

Dear LYGD;

As a veteran and aviator I have always honored and respected people like your grandfather who as part of the "Greatest Generation" served this country in a manner that few of us could comprehend. With that said there are many participants of this site who go to great extremes to learn about people like your grandfather and keep their memory and service alive. There are some of our members from Eastern Europe who had physically recovered USAAF servicemen's remains and aircraft wreckage and have reunited both friend and foe of that generation so their memory, courage and sacrifice can be made part of our permanent history.

In researching WW2 USAAF combat records, sometimes inaccurate and erred information is gathered, mainly because of stories told during the chaos and confusion of battle over 60 years ago. Additionally "official" records sometimes suffer the same fate for various reasons but in my opinion in either case rarely does one find "malicious intentions"

I'm going to be quite frank with you - your behavior with regards to the story of your grandfather is totally unsatisfactory. There was no malicious attempt to slander or defame him or any of his family members. Had you just come on here and stated the facts we would have gone out of our way to make the appropriate corrections, but to say that we disgraced your grandfather or don't have permission to post about him (just so you know combat records are public domain) is flat out ignorant.

This site and its membership has a proven track record of being a great resource to veterans and their families with regards to research and preserving history. Those of us who have spent countless hours researching records for a former WW2 airman or their family will recognize that sometimes our research might produce erred information and we are more than willing to make corrections as required, but this member will not allow someone like you to come on here and lambaste this site and its membership in the manner shown - YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!

My words could be a lot more harsh, but given the fact of your grandfather's memory and service I've weighed my words. I do hope in the future you do the same.

 

[Matt308]

That was a fantastic post. Well said FlyboyJ. And LYGD, I'll assume that closes out your visitor messages to me.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Ditto Joe! Very well said.

 

[LYGD]

pbfoot-

Making comments like that has no relevance and all it does is make for bad feelings. If it's your opinion, sometimes it's best to keep it to yourself. As a senior member, wouldn't you want to make people feel welcome on the board rather than unwelcome?

 

[B-17engineer]

Wait...not to get involved....

What that was saying was we need special permission to post about WWII aviators?

 

[GrauGeist]

LYGD, normally, a new member introduces themselves in a friendly manner, and is recived in kind.

The reaction you got was directly proportionate to your first post, and was dead-on, I might add...

 

[Njaco]

And thats all that you can respond too, a one sentence post??

LY, it also makes sense and friends to come onto a site and without drama and emotion, ask for some corrections. I would suggest that you read FlyboyJ's post again and understand how you, yourself came off with afew of your very own posts. We're not vultures here and nobody is making not one thin dime off of anything. We honor and respect those who served. Being friendly is one thing - totally irrational demands are another.

 

[LYGD]

x

 

[Matt308]

Yeah... we can. But honestly your prior posts and private messages directly to me indicated that this was "a big deal" to you. Either that or you are bipolar. Let's all just wipe the slate clean. Welcome LYGD. If you wish to properly introduce yourself in anticipation of joining our wonderful family of aviation enthusiasts, please do so in the BASIC subsection. Not here.

Now where were we before this thread was derailed...

 

[B-17engineer]

Yea....but if it wasn't such a big deal why'd his post need to be removed....?Im sure if Chingackgock (?) saw that you wanted his post removed it would've made for hard feeling too, right? You sent visitor messages to mods saying you weren't happy with posts, you basically said we need your permission to post about him but it is hard to only make an exception for you so to speak.... People post inaccurate things all the time here, all it requires is a simple correction no need to go around asking people to ban him, remove posts or whatever is the point of what PB was trying to say.....

So for you to go from being angered and dishonored to all friendly feelings is just surprising, to say the lest.

EDIT: Ok Matt sorry, I was working on this... and had to go do something

Then when I posted you said to stop, my Bad.

 

[Matt308]

She's gone. I didn't appreciate her response to my honest concern in her visitor messages. Have a nice life, LYGD. May your knickers never bind.

 

[B-17engineer]

Does she get the Homer Simpson skull with the tiny little brain?

 

[Matt308]

Well of course she does, B.

 

[Matt308]

Oh and look she's editing her wittle posts. Good riddance.

 

[B-17engineer]

Yes!

Were they the visitor messages where she said

"I sent the message in three different sections because it was too large to send it in one. I don't have any "beef" with any member. A member named "Chinguchgook" or something along those lines, left posts containing inaccurate war information about my grandfather, Lyman Emrich. It's really not all that difficult, if you start with the first message I sent, and go to the last, you can read it and figure it out. But since you can't, I'll repeat myself. I'll give you the information that you need that I gave you before.

I don't appreciate someone posting information copied from other sites, claiming they are a family member, when they are not. I don't need to tell you how it "smeared" his honor. The member "Chinguchgook" who wrote the posts was banned from this site. Obviously, they aren't even on here any more or welcome here, so what's the big deal about deleting the post?" -LYGD.

 

[GrauGeist]

Hmmm...if there was any disrespect committed by anybody, I think that title goes to her...

Eh...whatcha gonna do?

Anyway, wasn't there another case where a LW pilot escorted a hammered B-17 out of the combat zone (similiar to this)? Seems to me like there was, but I can't remember the details

 

[Njaco]

Capt. Charlies Brown's B-17 escorted by Franz Stigler of JG 27.

 

[GrauGeist]

Capt. Charlies Brown's B-17 escorted by Franz Stigler of JG 27.

Yep, I recall another case of a stricken bomber being escorted by a Luftwaffe pilot...similiar to this...

Or maybe it was a fighter...I can't remember

 

[Matt308]

I have a book here at the house that mentions a stricken B-17, wherein a Bf-109 pilot saddles up in the starboard aft quadrant, pulls the canopy back and smokes a ciggy. He never fired a shot and just hung out in the blind spot of the gunners looking over the Fortress. This was a citing from a B-17 aft gunner as I recall. I've always tried to visualize how the German would make that approach and can't. I can find the book and the citing if anyone is interested. Once he finished his ciggy, he just closed up and peeled off. Late 44 if I recall.