Sounds like a must-miss book.
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Gentlemen,
I've begun reading a book that claims the USAAF defeated the Luftwaffe, a task that no other Allied AF was capable of. The author argues that the RAF was only able to achieve temporary, local air superiority beyond England, and that the Red Air Force was even less effective at superiority. Only the USAAF had the ability to destroy the GAF. Any thoughts?
When I saw: "Mustangs over Berlin ..... ". Not to misrepresent the importance of Mosquitos or Lancasters over Berlin, but Mustangs over Berlin symbolized the final tightening of the air superiority screws. And they were USAAF Mustangs.
MM
I hope you're not planning to continue like this. Your contributions to threads are often glib, lacking depth, data, insight or thought provocation and sometimes relevance, contributing little or nothing of value to the debate, you were merely asked to present your credentials, which to date you haven'tAgain MM that is a famous quote about Goering he produced many famous quotes.
Can you give us some of his others?
Goering as head of the Luftwaffe did nothing to advance the luftwaffe he just lambasted his servicemen when they couldnt deliver what he had promised.
Goering oversaw and supervised the modernisation and expansion of the Luftwaffe into the force that entered WWII
He even accusing the LW of cowardice when they suffered massive losses in unescorted daylight bombing. Now any one who says he was a brilliant leader should consider why the USAAF stopped unescorted daylight raids I dont remember reading anything about cowardice or incompetence.
His lack of 'brilliance' is beyond doubt but Goering's main problem was swaggering over-confidence. He constantly gave operational assurances on tasks that were beyond even the competent Luftwaffe's capabilities.
But then maybe I am not so well "researched"
Back to the question I posed to you.. what is your body of carefully read sources which lead you to your conclusions?
An hysterical, incoherent ramble; can you verify ANYTHING you just said there?From my conversations in RUSSIA the russians consider the Americans COWARDS who used the situation to weaken RUSSIA and Europe to emerrge as the valiant victor while Russians died in their thousands.
Can I ask you with your GCE in History how informed an opinion you think that is? For example, if I suggested that it was the Stalinist purges that weakened the Soviet Union and the Soviet High Command's insistence on going into suspended animation in the face of repeated warnings over the imminent invasion, is it possible that the Russians you conversed with might be spewing anti-western/capitalist claptrap?
Since you are a hound for statistics you produce this statistic how many russians died fighting germany between America deciding that they were suffering "unsustainable losses" in daylight bombing of Germany and their resumption of the campaign. When you have the total then compare it to the loses the USA suffered, the USA and the USAAF dont look quite so heroic in those terms.
I don't understand the connection between losses and heroism. See above for the Soviet Union's own contribution to their calamitous situation in the second half of 1941. The USAAF would have reconsidered deep penetration daylight bombing whether Germany had brought the Soviet Union into the war or not.
Consider this, since you prefess to know the facts, in the daylight raiding campaign in 1943 there was no reason for the USAAF to stop bombing because from their certified claims they were already wiping the LW from the sky the losses were high but compared to the claims they were massive victories in any terms. SO WHY DID THEY STOP and since they did stop inspite of the official statistics PROVING they were winning everything else quoted from official unoficial and personal accounts is PURE ...B U L L T I H S
I hope you're not planning to continue like this. Your contributions to threads are often glib, lacking depth, data, insight or thought provocation and sometimes relevance, contributing little or nothing of value to the debate, you were merely asked to present your credentials, which to date you haven't
Sounds like a must-miss book.
An hysterical, incoherent ramble; can you verify ANYTHING you just said there?
Goering oversaw and supervised the modernisation and expansion of the Luftwaffe into the force that entered WWII
again Bull sh** you guys read too many mythical accounts about lack of pilots. young they were and not necessarily with more than 5 missions under their belt but there were plenty of them. the stupid and useless Sonderkommanado Elbe in april of 45 and Bienstock proves this, many youth pilots ready to give them selves up on the death throes of the Reich
the Soviets drew off the LW day units as I stated earlier back in January of 45 those that could of helped take on the US bombing campaign further had the eastern front escaped never had happened but now I am on a what-if. The Soviets helped out more than you guys know if the LW was still on an even par with the Ost front enemy
What is your body of carefully read sources? well what are yours I took History at GSE and CSE level at sixteen years old My project for the CSE grade was on operation Barberossa and its aftermath, I read history books from my early teens untll now and I have also worked in Russia China Germany France Italy and Japan. Do you challenge everybody who doesnt agree with you to produce a reference list. From my conversations in RUSSIA the russians consider the Americans COWARDS who used the situation to weaken RUSSIA and Europe to emerrge as the valiant victor while Russians died in their thousands.
Since you are a hound for statistics you produce this statistic how many russians died fighting germany between America deciding that they were suffering "unsustainable losses" in daylight bombing of Germany and their resumption of the campaign. When you have the total then compare it to the loses the USA suffered, the USA and the USAAF dont look quite so heroic in those terms.
You hit the nail on the head, as usual, erich, but the munchkins are just not listening
Since you are a hound for statistics you produce this statistic how many russians died fighting germany between America deciding that they were suffering "unsustainable losses" in daylight bombing of Germany and their resumption of the campaign. When you have the total then compare it to the loses the USA suffered, the USA and the USAAF dont look quite so heroic in those terms.[/QUOTE]i am not trying to be a smart @$$ here but whose fault is that? neither churchill or fdr ordered the russian troops to do that. uncle joe was more than willing to throw his own people into the fray as fodder. that was the communist line of doctrine...which was witnessed from there up into vietnam. from the communist manifesto on down from lenin to mao, to minh...the ends justififed the means. and there was a blatant disregard for the individual and their well being. they had no thoughts of calculated risk...it was damn the torpedos send in another 100,000. just because you do not throw organized suicide assaults at the enemy in the attempt to overwhelm them by sheer numbers is not cowardace.
Er what nail on what head? This munchkin sees the germans close to their own capital with a huge enemy land and air force force while the western allies are launching bombers from far away. As a munchkin to a smurf which to you is the most threatening, bearing in mind the Soviets were avenging the attrocities commited in the east.
The smurfs dont seem to want to answer simple munchkin questions. Like exactly how many men planes tanks and guns did the Russians and Germans lose when between the date the americans stopped daylight bombing raids under the combined bomber offensive (Agreed by the US President) and its resumption. However more importantly how much territory did the Soviets re calim and how much oil production did they deny Germany.
show me you credentials