Why no Me-110H night fighter?

[davebender]

Wespe was a low cost wartime substitute that was not as capable as the cancelled Sd.Kfz.165/1 SP howitzer. Just as the Hetzer was a low cost wartime substitute that was not as capable as the more expensive Jagdpanzer IV. And the Raupenschlepper Ost was a low cost substitute for the more capable Sd.Kfz.11 artillery tractor.

 

[davebender]

Apparently "Everyone" doesn't include the top scoring (at the time of his death) night fighter pilot in the world.

Helmut Lent flew every night fighter in the Luftwaffe inventory plus the Me-109 and Fw-190 day fighters. The Me-110 was his preferred aircraft.

 

[rank amateur]

Wespe was a low cost wartime substitute that was not as capable as the cancelled Sd.Kfz.165/1 SP howitzer. Just as the Hetzer was a low cost wartime substitute that was not as capable as the more expensive Jagdpanzer IV. And the Raupenschlepper Ost was a low cost substitute for the more capable Sd.Kfz.11 artillery tractor.

No argument here Germany was really good in making cheap substitutes that worked.

Btw are there pic's available of the me110H?

 

[davebender]

I am not aware of any. The prototype was destroyed before first flight but there should be photographs of the prototype in the wind tunnel.

 

[Gixxerman]

Apparently "Everyone" doesn't include the top scoring (at the time of his death) night fighter pilot in the world.

Helmut Lent flew every night fighter in the Luftwaffe inventory plus the Me-109 and Fw-190 day fighters. The Me-110 was his preferred aircraft.

Come on Dave, that's hardly a compelling argument.
Lots of the best pilots end up with favourites, that doesn't necessarily make their preferred choice the best option.

 

[Maximowitz]

Apparently "Everyone" doesn't include the top scoring (at the time of his death) night fighter pilot in the world.

Helmut Lent flew every night fighter in the Luftwaffe inventory plus the Me-109 and Fw-190 day fighters. The Me-110 was his preferred aircraft.

Ditto Hans Joachim Jabs.

 

[davebender]

50 kills to his credit, 22 of these being day victories against Allied fighters

Either he was super pilot or else he was lucky. I wouldn't hesitate to attack bombers at night with the Me-110. However tangling with 6 Spitfires during the daytime (killed 2!) is not the way to live long and prosper.

 

[Milosh]

50 kills to his credit, 22 of these being day victories against Allied fighters

Either he was super pilot or else he was lucky. I wouldn't hesitate to attack bombers at night with the Me-110. However tangling with 6 Spitfires during the daytime (killed 2!) is not the way to live long and prosper.

And 16 of those 22 came in the BoF and the BoB.

 

[Maximowitz]

50 kills to his credit, 22 of these being day victories against Allied fighters

Either he was super pilot or else he was lucky. I wouldn't hesitate to attack bombers at night with the Me-110. However tangling with 6 Spitfires during the daytime (killed 2!) is not the way to live long and prosper.

He was a super aggressive pilot and extremely skillful - after the war he became a very successful businessman. John Vasco tells an amusing story about interviewing the man for his book "Zerstorer."

But that as they say, is another story. Back to you Dave!

 

[Gixxerman]

And 16 of those 22 came in the BoF and the BoB.

I suggest that this goes some way to supporting my point that by 1945 the Me 110 had had its day long ago......and as a 3rd crew-man increasingly heavy electronic loads became more the norm at that stage it is obvious that there was little future left in the plane, even if they did plan to operate them for a little while longer (which, I suggest, was more out of necessity due to not having alternatives in numbers available than any true actual choice).

 

[davebender]

What does that have to do with summer 1940 when Germany got serious about establishing a night fighter force? RLM should have been writing specifications for a purpose built night fighter aircraft NLT 1941.

 

[Gixxerman]

Sorry Dave.
I thought this was a discussion about the merits or otherwise of the planned Me 110H variant in 1945?

 

[davebender]

No German weapons system has merit after Allied tanks cross the Rhine and Vistula Rivers. If Germany is going to improve the Me-110 design they need to do so before 1944.

 

[razor1uk]

It was I believe about the Bf110H.

I find it a little bit wierd Dave, that you feel the 210 isn't a successor to the 110; looking at the Bf110 and the Bf162 (the latter is quite closely similar to the former), its quite clear that the 210 is a attempt at multi-roled successor to both that could be a dive bomb as well - thats why there is the under nose weapons/bomb bay - to assist the props and also make pullouts easier upon the bomb release via ensuing aftward CoG change.

But lets get roughly back on with the 'H' at somepoint (does this continue on from the necro'd thread?)
.

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_bf_110H.html

 

[davebender]

Messerschmitt Bf 110H

Work on the Bf 110H began in 1943

Gotha was the largest Me-110 production facility. It was never converted to produce Me-210s. Production of the Me-110 was halted during December 1941 and resumed by February 1942.

Why did RLM wait so long before funding development of the Me-110H? Development could have begun a year earlier. For that matter it could have been concurrent with development of the Me-210. Just as the Ju-88 and Ju-188 developed simultaneously while sharing components and technology.

 

[tyrodtom]

Maybe the RLM waited so long to start funding development on the Me110H because they already had the Me110 replacement going, the Me210.
Then when that turned into the debacle that it was, they didn't want to reward the creator of the whole fiasco with even more funding.

 

[davebender]

RLM thought the Me-210 had insufficient interior space to serve as a night fighter. So how could they expect the Me-210 to replace the Me-110 night fighter aircraft?

 

[tyrodtom]

Maybe Messerschmitt and everbody associated with him was on the RLM's excretement list for a while over the Me210 affair.
I don't expect all the behind the scenes dealings in any country to make good common sense, and I certainly don't expect it in the WW2 3rd Reich.

 

[nuuumannn]

The question is why, in 1944 -45 would the RLM give funding to Messerschmitt to improve the Bf 110? By that time, the Ju 88G was in service, the Me 262 was built as a night fighter, the He 219 was in service and night fighter versions of the Ju 388, Ar 234 and Do 335 were being considered, if not already under construction. Personally I think Messerschmitt was foolish to divert resources to a 1930s design, albeit an improvement, when the Me 262 was in need of getting over teething trouble.

As for around 1940-41, the concept of the Bf 110H probably did not exist, because a replacement for the basic design was in the wings. The fact that the Me 210 didn't pan out the way the company, the RLM or the Luftwaffe wanted it to meant that Messerschmitt had to explore other options, which probably included dusting off the Bf 110 and redesigning it, but by 1944-45, what would be the point when jet powered aircraft offered more promise for the future of the LW?

Regarding why the RLM didn't pursue the Bf 110H over the Ju 88G, it is simply because the Ju 88G was available in design and construction before the Bf 110H was. If "work was started in 1943..." on the Bf 110H, a year earlier there was probably no need for an advanced version of the '110 and can anyone even verify that it even existed as a paper design in 1942? The mere fact that Messerschmitt designed a replacement as a whole new airframe meant that they had no intention of progressing the '110 once the Me 210 entered service.

 

[Njaco]

Don't forget Albert Speer. By 44-45 he was restricting the manufacture of many designs that were deemed worthless including many bomber types because they needed fighters.

and why develop a night-fighter when you already had an excellent one with the He 219?