World Cup

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I disagree Udet. You are looking at the sport in a very mideaval way.

First of all the Brazil 4-1 victory over Italy that you are talking about was boring. It was one sided and not very entertaining. Before you ask I have watched that game on my TV. There was no excitment, as Parmigiano put it, one team melted. Games like that are very boring for a real football fan like myself. When the teams are playing great against each other and the game goes to penelty kicks that is exciting! You are sitting at the edge of your seat with your heart pounding for the whole game and it culminates with the penelty kicks.

Just my opinion I guess, but since I am a real football fan and have been one since I was a child it make sense to me to want the more exciting even matches and not the boring one sided games.

2nd point I have to make is this. 32 teams are great for the World Cup. Why change it if it works and everyone in the world who loves Football thinks it is great.

A lot of non football fans say these things and personally I dont get it, since they are the ones that dont care about the sport.

3rd. I hope that no one gets offended by this part but I am just stating what is in the news right now as we speak and that is this. Zidane blew up when the Italian player made comments about his mother and sister.

Now I am not defending Zidane but I sure can understand why he blew up and in that case the Italian player was wrong and should be punished for this stupid act.

Yes Zidane was wrong and should not have acted that way, but why the hell does someone need to resort to such tactics to get them to do that. The other player is just as guilty and should be leveled a decent punishment as well.

Zidane has said that this was said to him on the news today.

 

[Parmigiano]

I agree with you Adler, also on point 3:

It is very simple: insults, like fouls, violent reaction etc. are not allowed.
But it is something that happens in every game, so there are established rules and 'best practices'

If the insults/fouls/violence are heard/seen by the referee team they are sanctioned during the match (for verbal-only insults, typically with a yellow card if addressed to another player and red card if addressed to the referee itself)
If the 'illegal action' can be proven after the match (television or other allowed methods) they can be sanctioned (typically 1-2 matches of expulsion).

In the Zidane-Materazzi case, the act of Zidane was seen by the '4th man' and communicated via radio to the referee, so Zidane was correctly expelled.
The insults of Materazzi were heard by nobody, so they were not punished during the match.
If they will be proved, then Materazzi will have to skip a couple of matches.

True that normally this kind of after-match analysis is not run for insults, is used only for 'violent physical actions' but in this case it is understandable that the judges will be more severe because of all the fuss that was generated.

Again, Zidane remains a champion after this match, and Materazzi remains a valid player (don't forget that as a defender he also scored 2 nice goals in this tournement)

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Agreed on all points you made there.

 

[lesofprimus]

From what is being reported here, Materazzi said something to the effect, "I'd rip the shirt off ur sisters back.."

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yes it was in todays paper that Materazzi admited to doing that, but said nothing about Zidanes mother because he himself lost his mother when he was 15 and is sensitive in that nature.

If I had been Zidane I would have been pissed off too but I would have waited till the game was over and spoiled his victory...

 

[Parmigiano]

Just to smile a bit...

Zidane-Materazzi headbutt game
Desc: headtbutt as many Materazzi's as you can

Magnaromagna.it Link esterno a www.magnaromagna.it


Materazzi long-throw

Use spacebar to build force, then hit with a mouse click and see how far you launch the Spaghetti

Corriere della Sera - Scaglia lontano Materazzi

World championship of the cutiest supporters
(select your 1 and 2 winners of the qualification, then proceed at boottom of the page)
I mondiali delle tifose piu' belle in tribuna - campionato mondiale virtuale di calcio

 

[SM79Sparviero]

Great adrenalizing matches with high quality level of play were Brasil-Italy 2-3in 1982 qualification, Germany-Holland 2-1 of 1974 final, Italy-Germany 4-3 of 1970 semifinal and France-Italy 2-1 in the Euro final of 2000.

I my opinion Italy expressed the very best qualities of our play, better than Spain 1982, in a world competition which would have left us without any medals exactly as Nederland offered the best soccer ever seen in the 70s without any real victory: I'm speaking about Argentina 1978 in particular Italy V/s France, Italy v/s Hungary, Italy v/s Nederland ( lost by Italy 2-1).

Materazzi is that kind of person who sistematically localizes the feeble side of the personality of an opponent and turns it against the latter.EX he once said to Antonio Conte , captain of Juventus, during a game "you had better to get a hair transplantation", the immediate answer was " you would be better after a BRAIN transplantation" .

Such people exist anywhere not only in the world of soccer, they are boring but anyone should clear up and hit them by cunning not by an active opposition that is what they are looking for.


I see, anyway:

a French player expelled for a violent act during AN INTERRUPTION of the game gets a prize for the best player of the competition by the same FIFA who had precedently expressed a lack of tolerance for any offensive behaviour,and a meticolous inquiry about the provocation from the italian opponent is organized.

An Italian player ( De Rossi) had a violent behaviour to an USA one during A DUEL IN THE THE GAME ; after the right expulsion he got the right 4 games punition and nobody suggested that he could have answered to a provocation....

Francesco Totti 's vicissitude in 2004 is notorious......he was, again, really wrong and he payed but nobody remembers that the Danish player had provocated him for 30 minutes......

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

a French player expelled for a violent act during AN INTERRUPTION of the game gets a prize for the best player of the competition by the same FIFA who had precedently expressed a lack of tolerance for any offensive behaviour,and a meticolous inquiry about the provocation from the italian opponent is organized.

Would you be complaining if it was Materazzi that had done the head butting and still recieved the best player award?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Nice funny links up there Parmigiano

 

[Henk]

I will wait untill after the game and kick the living sh*t out of him and then rip the shirt of his sister of ans shag her to spite him. He he he he.........

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Well he flew to Switzerland today to answer some questions. I really dont care anymore, the world cup is over.

Anyhow Parmigiano what do you think of the other scandle in Italian football about the match fixing? I heard that Juventus and 2 other teams could be relegated to the 2nd league pending the outcome.

 

[Parmigiano]

1st grade Sentence is expected today or tomorrow, long topic, have no time now 'cause I must run to another work appointment.
I just say that I hope that they will NOT use the excuse of the victory to make the sentences sweet.
And I am a Juventus fan...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

So you think they are guilty...

I have not heard too much about it so I do not have an opinion and dont know what the circumstances of the case are.

I remember when the German refs were found guilty of match fixing. They got what they deserved with 5 year jail sentences and large monetary fine and ban from FIFA.

 

[Dogwalker]

This case is very different, and difficult to explain.
There were not match fixing, nor monetary exchanges, nor crimes at all. Ordinary justice, the only that can jail someone, is completely out of that case, that's related only with violations of the "regolamento sportivo" that, even sanctioned by a law, is the internal code of the Football Federation. The judge is not an ordinary court, but an arbiter, and the violations are related more to a "system" in wich managers and referee seems to be too close and capable to influence each other that with specifically individuated violations.
The first two grades of the procedure (that one and the next) are summaries and requires only few days. For the third, and final, grade, Italian law indicates the competence of the TAR, that's an ordinary court (normally it judges about the behaviour of the pubblic administration).
It's hard to say if this procedure, that's based more on a mass of indications (even if well documented) that on real proofs, can survive to the exam of an ordinary court. But that's the problem, infact the FIFA want the sportif justice to be completely indipendent from ordinary one, so it's disposable to accept only the result of the first two grades of the procedure, while italian law, obviously, can't accept that someone can't resort to the justice to defend his rights.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Well Juventus and 2 other teams are relegated to the Serie B and forfiet there last 2 titles and AC Milan were not relegated but recieved a 15 point deficet for the next season.

 

[Parmigiano]

Dogwalker has already well explained the difficult part, that is defining the peculiar design of this 'scandal'

So I can go to the easiest part of venting out my opinion:

-I believe they are guilty of that manipulation and they have to be punished for that.
-On the sportive side I think it is right that the teams are penalized (at a first glance, Juventus will have zero chances to win anything for 2-3 years and Milan for 1-2 years)
- On the penal side, I think that the managers of the two teams who are in the stock market (Juventus and Lazio) should go into ordinary justice trial: all the people who bought stocks have been damaged when stock value dove underground because of their misbehavior.

So said, I believe that the real boom is not yet on the desk. Once upon a time they said 'cherchez la femme' as first investigation step for a crime, now it is more often 'cherchez l'argent'
And the real money here is in the TV rights that are around the football. Curiously the two teams who have dominated the Italian scene in the last 10 years and are in the scandal now (Milan and Juventus) always had a perfectly common view on how to manage that rights, and recently they both sold their exclusive rights to Mediaset (the group of Mr Berlusconi who, btw, is also owner of Milan)
I think the judges are willing to look inside this agreements and money flow.

I don't believe however that all this mess has significantly influenced the sport results: both Juve and Milan were actually great teams and would had dominate the Italian scene anyway. (just look at the last world cup final match: half of the players were Juventus or ex-Juventus players : Buffon, Cannavaro, Zambrotta, Del Piero, Zidane, Thuram, Henry, Trezeguet, Vieira etc.)
And the international challenges (Champions league) were not impacted by the manipulations.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I have heard that a lot of the Italian players who in the effected teams are concidering quiting because they do not want to play in the Serie B and will go to the other countries and play. Is this true?

What do you think will happen to Berlusconi?

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

it wouldn't supprise me one bit if they left, but i take the view that if they're that good it'll only be a few seasons before they're back in the top flight anyway...........

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Not until the alloted time allows them to return.

 

[Parmigiano]

At the moment, based on the current sentences, what likely will happen for the Teams in 'serie B' is:

Players with a certain age (over 30) with high fidelization (i.e. Del Piero for Juventus) will stay in the team to be the core of the reconstruction

Younger and/or 'mercenary' players will likely go for other teams.

In case the affected team will be out of the major league for just one year, this players will probably be 'leased' to a foreign team and will return in 2008, if the return to 'serie A' will last longer the players will be definitely sold.

At the moment Lazio and Fiorentina can plan one year of serie B while Juventus has only 20% probability to qualify for serie A in 2007 (due to the penalization in 2007 run)

I think nothing will happen to Berlusconi, and that Milan will be stronger than ever: in 2007 it will be out of Champions League and will have no chances to win the Italian league, but being still in 'serie A' they will be able to shop the best players leaving Juve, Lazio etc. at bargain price and build a super-team to dominate from 2008 onwards.

This scenario may change if the 2nd grade process will modify the sentences.