Your top 10 modern fighters

[Henk]

Yes, I understand what you are saying , but are they not sick of it and want to go home and not be left with that mess?

The worst thing of war is that some guys come back totally mad and does not recover from it other have nightmares and sociological problems. Some of the guys who came back from Angola also never came back human, they changed for the worst.

What I meant is that do they fight with the spirit that they started with under the influence that there is weapons of mass destruction. Now it has turned into a war against real nasty terrorists.

What is the morale of the men there for real, no bullshit guys I mean do they really want to come home or still fight?

Henk

 

[pbfoot]

Henk your artillery was built in South Africa but designed by a guy called Gerald Bull who was not South African but the probably the best ballistic engineer you should read up on him and see what he did with the 16" guns from the US Navy

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Yes, I understand what you are saying , but are they not sick of it and want to go home and not be left with that mess?

many of those there don't consider it a mess...

The worst thing of war is that some guys come back totally mad and does not recover from it other have nightmares and sociological problems. Some of the guys who came back from Angola also never came back human, they changed for the worst.

My brother did 2 tours in Nam - was never the same..

What I meant is that do they fight with the spirit that they started with under the influence that there is weapons of mass destruction. Now it has turned into a war against real nasty terrorists.

What is the morale of the men there for real, no bullshit guys I mean do they really want to come home or still fight?

Henk

Many of the ones I've met (they were from Fort Carson) are proud of what they did and have stated that the media doesn't give a good account of what goes on there. One guy I met said the ones he really enjoyed seeing killed are the non-Iraqis, terrorists from other countries that wanted to go there to fight. I was told that they make up about 10% of the combatants.

No soldier wants to be detached from family but it seems most of the US soldiers in Iraq still have high morale and there are still many stateside willing to go over there.....

 

[davparlr]

Yes, I understand what you are saying , but are they not sick of it and want to go home and not be left with that mess?

The worst thing of war is that some guys come back totally mad and does not recover from it other have nightmares and sociological problems. Some of the guys who came back from Angola also never came back human, they changed for the worst.

What I meant is that do they fight with the spirit that they started with under the influence that there is weapons of mass destruction. Now it has turned into a war against real nasty terrorists.

What is the morale of the men there for real, no bullshit guys I mean do they really want to come home or still fight?

Henk

You have been listening to some slanted info. Almost all soldiers want to come home from war. Who wants to be shot at compared to sitting with a loved one around a home fire? And there will always be someone to complain and always a news man willing to listen to that one complain. In truth, I think the forces in Iraq are highly motivated and believe that they are offering the Iraqis an opportuny to have democratic government. Gee, what a evil objective to have. They also believe that that government will make a more stable middle east, and therefore, help stablize the most volatile and troublesome area of the world. This is different than Vietnam, which I am a veteran. There, many soldiers were drafted and morale was low. They still stayed and fought and won every battle, only to be withdrawn by polititians, who lost the war. Still they fought for 10 years, the longest war in American history. Nobody who knows our troops in Iraq think that they are angry, if they are, its against lousy news reporting that deceives the public of what they are doing.

You are right about guerrilla warfare. It is a dangerous war, even with powerful forces. Especially if one is too civilized to use the brutal techniques of the Nazis. I do believe the American armed forces are strongest military the world has ever seen, but warfare in the jungle or mountains against a determined, well supported guerrilla group would be deadly. However, with the new weapons available, supplies will be severely limited to the terrorist. The terrorist in Iraq are not supported by the majority of Iraqis.

To answer you question, they want to come home, but they believe in winning and they will fight!

 

[Henk]

Henk your artillery was built in South Africa but designed by a guy called Gerald Bull who was not South African but the probably the best ballistic engineer you should read up on him and see what he did with the 16" guns from the US Navy

I know about him. He made that mother of a gun from the barrels of 16 inch guns and later were killed by the Israelis because he was building this big gun for Iraq. He tried to smuggle it into Iraq making as if the parts of the barrel was for oil pipes and almost succeeded. He was also jailed for solding the specs to the South African Government during the Apartheid era and the Angola war.

He sold the plans or specs of the 155mm Howitzer guns that was later used in the G-5 and G-6. The G-5 is a towed artillery and has the best pin point shot you will ever get from that kind of artillery. The G-6 is a mobile artillery with the 155mm Howitzer. I have seen one of the G-6 at the Joburg Military Museum and it is a monster of a war machine. The G-6 is a 6X6.

The G-6:

She is lovely.

That is actually great to hear that the guys in Iraq still have great moral.

Henk

 

[plan_D]

Even using guerilla tactics, you cannot defeat the U.S in a war. It is the single most powerful military that this world has ever encountered. In comparitive terms to other militaries of today, it far exceeds anything in history. Even the Royal Navy in it's heyday was not as far advanced above other nations as the U.S military is now.

If the U.S had to fight South Africa, or Sweden, or Britain, or India, or Iran ... or anyone. It has the economy and military strength to wipe out any chance of defeat within a few days.

The U.S could simply station it's massive fleet in the oceans around it's target nation, and slaughter it from the air. The only nation in my list with any chance of survival, or the biggest delay, would be Britain because the Royal Navy could answer in kind with it's own fleet. But it would only cost more lives and not secure a victory.

Once the airfields and HQ of the nation had been smashed. The U.S could land it's Marines and Airborne with great efficiency, the equipment available to them is unsurpassed. Any land forces would be blown away by the USAF and USN, and the land forces would be simply mopping up. The only real problem would be the guerilla warfare afterwards, of which the nations with the greatest trained special forces would be the most deadly ... but this isn't going to stop the U.S. Iraq has lost the war, the U.S has done what it wanted to do. And the losses are tiny in comparison to past conflicts.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

many of those there don't consider it a mess...

My brother did 2 tours in Nam - was never the same..

Many of the ones I've met (they were from Fort Carson) are proud of what they did and have stated that the media doesn't give a good account of what goes on there. One guy I met said the ones he really enjoyed seeing killed are the non-Iraqis, terrorists from other countries that wanted to go there to fight. I was told that they make up about 10% of the combatants.

No soldier wants to be detached from family but it seems most of the US soldiers in Iraq still have high morale and there are still many stateside willing to go over there.....

You just hit the nail on the head my friend. The media does not cover what we are doing over there. They do not cover the good will that we bring, the schools that we have the built, the fact that Baghdad has plumming again. They show only the death and the bad things that happen and us soldiers get the blame for it. I hate the media and so does just about every other soldier that I know.

When we were in Iraq I hated flying the media and I told them that. I asked them why can not show what we are doing and they just grinned and said it was there job.

About the moral you are correct as well. We all hated being away from our families and friends for over a year but we did the best we could and we became a family in ourselves and we helped each other through it and together with this "military family" that we became we kept each other in good spirits and made the best of it.

These memories with my fellow comrads I will never forget and will allways remember and I will allways love my fellow soldiers that I went to war with as brothers.

 

[Bullockracing]

AMEN!!! PREACH ON BROTHER ADLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

 

[102first_hussars]

Henk your artillery was built in South Africa but designed by a guy called Gerald Bull who was not South African but the probably the best ballistic engineer you should read up on him and see what he did with the 16" guns from the US Navy

Yes, he also tried developing the the so called 'Super Gun' for the Iraqis before GW1, then being assasinated by possibly Israeili or American secret services

 

[Gnomey]

Good stuff Adler!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Thankyou, thankyou, I will be here all week!

 

[lesofprimus]

I know about him. He made that mother of a gun from the barrels of 16 inch guns and later were killed by the Israelis because he was building this big gun for Iraq. He tried to smuggle it into Iraq making as if the parts of the barrel was for oil pipes and almost succeeded.

Yes, he also tried developing the the so called 'Super Gun' for the Iraqis before GW1, then being assasinated by possibly Israeili or American secret services

Henk beat ya to it hussars...

 

[syscom3]

When I was working in French Guiana, I had to transit through Barbados. Those barrels were abandoned on the beach near the airport and I saw them wehn we took off.

I have to check my video's from back then. I might have grabbed a quick shot of them rom the airplane.

One thing I remember, is they were huge, even from altitude. looked like huge sections of pipes from an oil refinery.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Did any of the surviving pieces survive and end up in museums or anything?

 

[Glider]

In the American Hanger at Duxford there is a part of the super gun and to be honest, unless you were told that it was part of a gun you would decribe it as part of a pipeline.

There was a huge stink over here at the time. The company that built it was British and technically it wa a difficult thing to make. They knew that it was way over specified for a pipeline and tipped off the security services. The company were told to carry on building it and let MI5 know what was going on.

When the mud hit the fan the goverment denied everything and had the company directors charged for arms offences. Fortunately the company had a number of records that made the charge unsustainable. They had even a advertising film made showing the 'pipes' under construction showing that they could produce such technically difficult pipelines.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Okay cool.

 

[Peppst3r]

If the F16 is bether, why did 2 gripen(griffins) "kill" 4 F16c in a simulated combat.

jas39 gripen isn't made for single fligh or with one wingman, its primary roll is to fly in a group of 4, then it becomes wery dangerus.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

If the F16 is bether, why did 2 gripen(griffins) "kill" 4 F16c in a simulated combat.

jas39 gripen isn't made for single fligh or with one wingman, its primary roll is to fly in a group of 4, then it becomes wery dangerus.

And a P-3 Orion sunk the aircraft carrier Kittyhawk in simulated combat. Your point?

F-16C - block 25, 20 years old, try against a block 60 F-16 which is more in line with your precious Gripen....

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

If the F16 is bether, why did 2 gripen(griffins) "kill" 4 F16c in a simulated combat.

What were the conditions of the flight? Who was flying it? What kind of package was in the F-16? There are so many factors that play into it.

jas39 gripen isn't made for single fligh or with one wingman, its primary roll is to fly in a group of 4, then it becomes wery dangerus.

That does not say much about the Gripen. Think about what you are saying. As a single aircraft or when only in groups of 2 or 3 it is not dangerous.

Most airforces have there aircraft fly in tandem such as 2 aircraft as wingmen. 2 F-16s let alone 1 are very deadly...

Not saying the Gripen is not a good aircraft. I think it is a great aircraft but what makes the F-16 better is its vesatility. The F-16 can be used in so many roles and is highly effective in all of them.