# Modern Artillery....



## Lucky13 (May 20, 2007)

Which is the best piece of artillery around today looking at mobility, accuracy and firepower?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 20, 2007)

I was going to vote for the US M109 Pallidan but instead decided to vote for the new German PzH2000 which has been proven to outperform the M109.


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## Cyrano (May 20, 2007)




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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 20, 2007)

Since I like polls for some reason I added one to this thread.


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## HealzDevo (May 20, 2007)

I went for the Russian M1987. I just like that one.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 21, 2007)

Do you even know what it is? It is a towed Howitzer peace. Towed means it has to be moved by another vehical. 

I included towed pieces to see if people would choose them over the Self Propelled ones which obviously have better maneuverability, fire power and are better overall arty pieces.

Just wondering, if you actually knew what it was.


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## twoeagles (May 21, 2007)

Not being an artillery type, I was very impressed by Paladin at a firepower
demo at Yuma Proving Grounds a few years ago. They showed two modes
of firing a round, one was direct low elevation and the other was high 
elevation lob. The crew fired the high elevation round and started 
a stop watch. They waited what must have been 30 seconds and fired a
second round at low elevation. The timing was near perfect as both rounds
impacted the target about 10 km downrange simultaneously. I am sure this 
is a no brainer for artillery men, but for this old Airdale, it was very cool.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 21, 2007)

I too was very impressed with the Paladin until I found out about the new PzH 2000 which then won me over.

*Paladin*
Rate of fire: 4 round/min maximum, 1 round/min sustained 
Shooting range: 18,000 m - 30,000 m (with rocket-assisted projectile)
Speed: 35 miles per hour (56 km/h) 
Range: 216 miles (350 km) 

*PzH 2000*
Rate of fire: 3 firings per 10 seconds, 8 firings per minute, 20 firings per 3 minutes 
Range (of the artillery fire): 30 km (19 miles), 56 km (34 miles) with rocket-assisted projectile 
Top road speed: 60 km/h (37 mph) 
Top off-road speed: 45 km/h (28 mph) 
Range (of the vehicle): 420 km (261 miles)


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## twoeagles (May 21, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I too was very impressed with the Paladin until I found out about the new PzH 2000 which then won me over.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Wow! The PzH 2000 must have a highly automated loader/ejector. That's
> ...


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## Lucky13 (May 21, 2007)

I miss this one....  Probably because it's no longer in service I don't know....I could be wrong.

Bandkanon 1 (bkan 1) was a Swedish self-propelled gun in use with the Swedish Army from 1967 to 2003. It was developed by Bofors under the designation artillerikanonvagn 151 (akv 151) and the chassis was based on the never adopted tank KRV. When the KRV-project was canceled the chassis of the SP-gun was re-designed to use the same drive train as the S-tank. Bkan 1 was one of the world's heaviest self-propelled guns in use during its service and since the engines were dimensioned for the lighter S-tank the bkan was somewhat underpowered. Despite this it had very good mobility.

It had an exceptionally high rate of fire, being able to fire away 14 shells in 45 seconds*[1]*. Each shell had a weight of 47 kg and a tactical range of 25 km. The gun was designed to fire tactical nuclear rounds, but as Sweden decided to not produce nuclear weapons, this feature never came into use.

Notes

*1*With one round already loaded in the gun besides to the two seven-round magazines, the rate of fire rose to 15 rounds in 45 seconds.

Nice work adding a poll to this Adler!

Just found out that it was taken out of service in 2003.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 21, 2007)

twoeagles said:


> Wow! The PzH 2000 must have a highly automated loader/ejector. That's
> an amazing rate of fire. Wonder how many rounds it actually carries, and
> can it do it all with fewer crew members? That is also a discriminator.
> Thanks for posting the spec's, Adler.



It does it with a crew of 5 which is one more than the Paladin which has a crew of 4. The crew consists of Commander, Driver, Gunner and 2 loaders but the loading of shells is automated. I am not sure though how many rounds it can carry. I am sure that it is like the Paladin and has a seperate vehicle that carries extra ammo.

_Rheinmetall designed the 155mm 52-calibre gun, which is chromium-lined for its entire 8 metre length and includes a muzzle brake on the end. The gun uses a new standardized charge system with six different charges, which can be combined to provide exactly the power needed and no more. Primer is loaded separately via a conveyor belt, and the entire loading, laying and clearing is completely automated. The maximum range of the gun is 30km with the standard L15A2 round (from the US M109), about 35km with base bleed rounds, and at least 40km with assisted projectiles. *In April 2006 a PzH 2000 shot assisted shells (Denel V-Lap) over a distance of 56km with a probable maximum range of over 60km*_

PzH 2000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Lucky13 (May 21, 2007)

How about the Swedish Archer - FH77BW L52


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CHfcOPGAt0_

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leYCwU7B8jI_














FH77 BW L52
A wheeled, self-propelled 155 mm L52 automatic howitzer has been developed, based on the successful towed FH77 B. The new FH 77 BW L52 howitzer will have state-of-the-art tactical and technical performance.
Characteristics
The range is 40 km with today’s ammunition and 60 km with the M982 Excalibur. Holding 40 onboard rounds, of which 20 are in a fully automated magazine. The entire crew is protected by armour in combat. The crew consists of 3-4 men. The gun can reach road-speeds of up to 70 km/h and can be air-transportable in the new A 400 M aeroplane, “Europe’s Hercules“. Most of the existing FH 77 B weapon system is retained.

FH77BW L52 is an ideal artillery system of the next generation of self-propelled gun due to:
• good transportability in terrain, on country
roads, by rail or air;
• excellent protection for the relatively small crew;
• very high weapon performance regarding
range, precision and effect;
• new methods for effective fire are introduced,
e.g. MRSI;
• interoperable with western artillery standards;
• and very low operational and maintenance
costs compared with other existing artillery systems.
PERFORMANCE
Salvo: 3 rounds in15 seconds
• Intensive fire: 20 rounds (a full magazine)
in 2.5 minutes
• Continuous fire: 75 rounds an hour
• Multiple Round Simultaneous Impact, MRSI, up to 6 rounds
• Direct-sighting for ranges up to 2,000 metres
• Secondary weaponry: Grenade launcher or machine gun
• Mobility in snow up to 100 cm
• Maximum road speed: 70 km/h
• Transportable by rail in accordance with the European profile
• Transportable by air with, among others, A 400 M
• Armouring equivalent to a tracked armoured
vehicle, re-enforced min protection
and NBC protection for the crew
• Integrated command, fire control and communication system with internal fire control.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 21, 2007)

I did not add it because the Archer is still in development stage. Only 2 prototypes have been built as of 2004.


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## Lucky13 (May 21, 2007)

Shows you how much I know..... 

Here's something to read if you want to know about the Swedish FMV, the guys that comes up with all the "bright" sometimes ideas....

http://www.fmv.se/upload/Bilder och dokument/English/Current information/Publications/rewind06.pdf


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 21, 2007)

The only thing I dont like about the Archer is that it is on a wheeled vehical. Tracks are better in my opinion.


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## Lucky13 (May 21, 2007)

Probably has its pros and cons both of them. You wonder though why they went for a wheel arrangement instead for tracks....I've seen these dumper trucks and their wheels are as tall than me!
Another thing, a continuous fire of 75 rounds an hour???


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## Matt308 (May 21, 2007)

I too am wondering about the sustained fire figures. 75rnd/hr sounds much more realistic to me. Half that in a minute would make for a REALLY hot breach and barrel. Surely that kind of fire cannot be sustained for too terribly long, can it?


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## HealzDevo (May 22, 2007)

Looks like a monster. Are tracked vehicles less likely to roll with recoil than wheeled vehicles as artillery? I know that some of the tracked vehicles put down stabilisers before they fire while others don't...


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## Matt308 (May 22, 2007)

No. Tracked vehicles have more off-road capability at the expense of added weight and likely less speed. Wheeled vehicles have less weight, more prepared road speed at the expense of vulnerability. Though the latter gap has been closing recently to some extent.


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## HealzDevo (May 27, 2007)

Okay, I just wondered about that issue, of wheels vs tracks on Modern Artillery the reason for it, but I think you have answered it.


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