# JA 37 Viggen vs Mig 23



## Grampa (Feb 8, 2008)

what is your opinion in comparing betveen SAAB J 37 and Mig 23?

Well for what i know most here is that the JA 37 has better avionicks and radarcapability.
JA 37 climes 10,000 feet per minute faster.
JA needs only 400m long runvay compare to 900m to Mig 23.
The lifetime for the RM 8 (wiggenengine) is 2 maby 3 times longer compare to the R-27 or R-29 on the Mig 23.
The cannons on the Mig 23 (GSh-23) has mutch faster firingrate but less punc and range compare to the wiggens (Oerlikon KCA) cannons
Wiggens turned around is 10min (some did in 7 min).
The Mig 23 is both 10% in faster and longer range.





Viggen




Mig 23


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jhbnWJ1de8_


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOIxkDZlW6E_


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 8, 2008)

Viggen hands down - better radar and fire control. Although the -23 is faster I don’t think it will make a difference. If the Viggen if fighting from an extended range, there may be a problem. As far as the rate of the gun, non issue.


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## Grampa (Feb 8, 2008)

In compare to BVR fightingcapabilitys the Viggen has some greate advances. For example The radarn on Viggen is the 70-cm diameter Erikssons Radio System PS-46/A, a high power X-band pulse-doppler medium PRF radar whit an capability to look-down target least 50km and track down several targets while searcing, it also got an high resistance to EMC.

The Mig-23E Radar is the Jay Bird (named by Nato) has an searc range of 30km and tracking range of 20km.

The weapons comparensen is that the Viggen using the RB71, a licensbuild version of the BAe Sky Flash Missile from UK. The Sky Flash whas developet from the US AIM-7E2 Sparrow whit more advanced homing system and improved fusing, plus it has reduced warm up time from the US 15 sec to the UK 2 sec. the Sky Flas has also greater capabilitys agains glint and heavy electronics contermeasures. It has the ability to attack targets that flow as low to 75m above the ground and launched from 100m up to high LVL flying targets. The RB 71 also got an better improved motor and guidens system by SAAB Missiles company. The missiles weight is 193kg and has an warhead of 30kg active radar promixy and impact delay-fused blast fragmentation. 
The range for Sky Flash is from 0.5km to 50km and to the RB71 is may by a little longer because it has an improved motor.

The Mig-23 medium-range missile is the AA-7A/B, codename Apex is also an development (probely stolen) of the US AIM-7E Sparrow III Missiles but whit greater manoeuvrabilityand and has an infrared homing system instead of radar. The Missiles weight is 300kg and has an 40kg promixy and impact fused warhead. The range for AA-7A is 20km.
There is also an more improved typ called AA-7B that are 20kg heavier than the original but has an semi-active radar homing system and got an range of 55Km.


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## Ramirezzz (Feb 8, 2008)

Grampa said:


> The Mig-23E Radar is the Jay Bird (named by Nato) has an searc range of 30km and tracking range of 20km.


The radar you're talking about - Saphir-21 - was installed only on a downgraded version of the MiG-23 - MiG-23MS for export only. MiG-23M and MiG-23ML,which were the standard VVS fighters in the late 70es, were equipped with far better Saphir-23M, Saphir-23ML and Saphir-23D-III. 
For example, the search range of the Saphir -23ML was about 55 kMm and about 85 km by ground guidance , the lock on range was about 40 km.

Here's picture with a comparison of the performance of the Saphir-23D-III installed on the MiG-23ML with the AN/APG-120 and "Sirano" IV (unfortunately, in russian)





you see here that the 23D-III had a better performance in tracking of the Mirage F.1 than the "Sirano" IV on MiG-23, and it had clearly outmatched the performance of the AN/APG-120 installed on F-4E
unfortunately I have no exact data of the PS46/A performance




> The Mig-23 medium-range missile is the AA-7A/B, codename Apex is also an development (probely stolen) of the US AIM-7E Sparrow III Missiles


they have only some common features and the philosophy, but there're different designs


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## Grampa (Feb 8, 2008)

Looks like you right about that Ramirezzz. Intresting cart over the Saphir -23ML radar, and about the AA-7 missile looks like you have it right. I heard this rumor of the missiles from an ol buddy who once worked in the Flygvapnet and well he had it wrong so my and he's misstakes, sorry Ramirezzz.


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## Ramirezzz (Feb 9, 2008)

Grampa said:


> Looks like you right about that Ramirezzz. Intresting cart over the Saphir -23ML radar, and about the AA-7 missile looks like you have it right. I heard this rumor of the missiles from an ol buddy who once worked in the Flygvapnet and well he had it wrong so my and he's misstakes, sorry Ramirezzz.




no problem Grampa  , in fact it was very interesting to read the information about the Wiggen radar you've posted since I've virtually no knowlege about this aircraft since it wasn't been involved in any local Cold War local conflict


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