# Ghosts...



## Lucky13 (Jun 5, 2010)

Who here believes in them?


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## GrauGeist (Jun 5, 2010)

In all seriousness, I do...


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## A4K (Jun 5, 2010)

They've visited me often enough, so me too... (They tend to know who's sensitive to them)


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## magnu (Jun 5, 2010)

Having had quite a few encounters myself I do as well.


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## Lucky13 (Jun 5, 2010)

Care to tell fellas? Just wondering...as I do that myself!


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## magnu (Jun 5, 2010)

Many years ago I worked part time in a pub which used to be a coaching inn ( coach houses and tack room are still there). Originally called the Unicorn hotel it is well over 300years old. We never knew the name of the ghost, it was supposedly a landlord who hung himself over the fireplace after his wife had an affair, so he was known as Humphry as in the milk ad. those of us of a certain age will remember. "Watch out,watch out there's a Humphry about".
Doors would open and shut by themselves, glasses and bottles would fall off the shelves, footsteps coming up stairs from where the cellar used to be but had since been floored over. One night after locking up I was banking up the fire with the hot ashes to keep it going 'til morning when the back of my neck went freezing cold and as I turned round an ashtray lifted up from one of the tables and sailed lazily across the room. 
There was never a sense of menace or threat he just liked to let you know he was still about.

One of my very distant relatives used to own Trenear manor house in Penzance and as a young lad we went on a family visit. One of the previous owners died falling down the grand staircase and there is a bloodstain that cannot be removed even when the board was replaced the stain reappeared. The scariest thing about the visit was opening a large wardrobe on the landing and finding a Grizzly bear inside!

As a student at the local college I used to visit with friends who were renting a cottage,one of two adjoining which was a converted cow barn of an old manor house, One night we went next door to watch a video, there were about six or seven of us altogether. We had just settled down in front of the tv. when someone said 
"Hey I didn't know you had a cat"
"We haven't got a cat" 
"Well then what's that going up the stairs?"
We all turned to look and saw a ball of dark smoke like substance slowly make its' way up the stairs and disappear.
Many years later I was chatting with a mates girlfriend who happened to be renting the same house, her daughter kept telling her she could see another little girl playing on the stairs.
"We haven't got a cat"


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## Colin1 (Jun 5, 2010)

magnu said:


> The scariest thing about the visit was opening a large wardrobe on the landing and finding a Grizzly bear inside!


Definitely a mummy bear...
What was it wearing, or hadn't it decided yet?


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## magnu (Jun 5, 2010)

Colin1 said:


> Definitely a mummy bear...
> What was it wearing, or hadn't it decided yet?



A very big snarl and looking well P.O.ed Being shot and stuffed does kinda ruin your day.


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## RabidAlien (Jun 5, 2010)

I've had some interesting encounters on occasion, but nothing outright and obvious like Magnu's stories. Personally, with no solid evidence one way or the other, I say I firmly believe in the possibility of the existence of ghosts. Kinda like aliens.


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## A4K (Jun 5, 2010)

I've had alot, some nice, some not so... 

One of the funniest was in my flat in Oz, which was the lower level of a house built into a hill, and originally used as a potting shed by an old couple, both long since passed away. In bed awake one night, heard two sets of footsteps behind my head coming from what was now a cupboard but originally a back door. Quickly closed my eyes like I was asleep, and as they moved around the head of the bed toward the current front door, I heard an old woman's voice say "Shh, don't wake him up!" 

Another time in the same flat, she sat down next to me while I was reading - I actually felt the mattress sag under the weight! I just showed her the cover, told her the title, and she slowly went away.

I would have told you about some of the sad characters I felt and saw in an old backpackers hostel (ex-women's refuge) I stayed in for six months, but the hairs went 90 degrees on my arms just thinking about it...the best thing they could do is pull that place down.

In short though, have felt them, seen them , and heard them. Seen an old woman and her cat (it disappeared in my hand when I went to stroke it), a dog, a man who died in a fire in a restaurant I worked in, and had my half of a shared room filled with bright points of light after me and a friend helped a poor girl move on... had my hand held in a castle in Hungary, and my shoulder held firmly but kindly while extremely depressed and suicidal on one occassion - physically felt my heart and head lighten, and actually broke down in tears ! ( Anyone who knows me, knows that is NOT a part of my character!)
On one ocassion even dreamed of the encounter about 6 months before it happened, and brought a friend closer to the memory of his grandfather when it actually occurred.

The most bizarre of all though was probably when given the feeling of being a corpse on one ocassion, by one of the hangers-on at the old man's place (an old Magistrates house complete with prison, built in 1833). My whole body went frozen and hollow, like being in a vast cave, the only thing inside me my heart, and that beating loud as hell. They levitated me about 2-3 feet above the bed till I asked them why they remained, and don't they want to move on. They quickly let me back down, and I saw a source of light retreating through the closed door.

(Also heard footsteps upstairs while alone in the same house, and the sound of someone opening a courtyard gate I knew was locked, and leading a horse in in the middle of the night - of course there was no-on there when I went out to check.)

A ton more such occurrences, but won't write them all here. Usually they just like you to know they're there (feeling of cobwebs on your face, hairs rising on your neck and arms, body going numb, or strong backache if they want you to feel their pain). Important to remember though that they can't effect you if you don't let them - problematic ones need to be told short and strong that they have no place here and to move on.


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## tonyb (Jun 5, 2010)

Definitely a believer.
I have lived and worked in 2 really old pubs back in Cambridge in the UK.
The first named 'The Eagle' (which incidentally is a must see for all u guys as it has a quite famous 'RAF' bar in the back which has the signatures of most of the RAF/USAF servicemen burned into the ceiling with candles which was done during WW2) had a ghost.You would always swear you were being watched even though no-one would be in the room and there unexplained footsteps heard often.
The 2nd pub named 'The Baron of Beef' had a ghost that lived on the 3rd floor.I used to live on the 2nd floor and I would always hear footsteps from above even though no-one lived up there.
Cheers,
Tony.


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## T Bolt (Jun 5, 2010)

Evan your post made the hair in the back of my neck stand up!

I haven't personally had any experiences but a story an uncle told me when I was about 8 years old has stayed with me. He was an amateur photographer and a photographer friend of his was on a tour of Europe when he was in an old church taking some shots. I wish I knew where it was, I know my uncle said the name of the church but I was only 8 and It didn't stick with me and my uncle is long dead. Well to get back to the story the pictures were developed and in one of the shots taken from the back of the church looking to the alter there were two clocked figures. My uncle's friend swore there was no one in the church when he took the picture. There was something strange about the figures. They were facing away from the camera so no faces could be seen, but by comparison with the pews they looked to be only 3 feet tall. He did some research later and found that the existing floor of the church had been rebuilt over the original floor so the figures were walking on the original floor!


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## B-17engineer (Jun 5, 2010)

Great! Now you guys have me looking behind my back....


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## Capt. Vick (Jun 5, 2010)

Sorry. In a word: Bunk!


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 5, 2010)

I'm open to the possibility, but I would think as many of sightings that have supposedly occurred, some would have provided substantial proof of them.


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## A4K (Jun 6, 2010)

Interesting Tony and Glenn! 

James and Dave, all I can do is reiterate my first post - they tend to know who's sensitive to them. 
An example of this was in a church in a castle here in Hungary. They normally don't let people onto the upper landing which overlooks the main room and altar because of the inhabitant, but when I mentioned they had a ghost in the prison, they let me in to see if I would know this one too. She came to me after a minute and held my hand, and I told them (correctly) she was a short old woman who lived from the latter half of the 1800's to around 1930-40. Asked my mate out of curiosity to come too - he dosen't believe in such things at all. She quickly shot round and hid by my left side, away from him.
Later went to the lower church proper, and tried to quickly photograph the uppper landing -me, my mate and his girlfriend all saw a flash of light quickly shoot from the centre of the landing out the door.

Sometimes they let you know anyway, whether you believe or not: in the old man's place for example, one of the most popular requests by visitors is to be photographed in the isolation cell. People regularly feel a presence on their arms or legs while the pictures are taken, which later appear as balls of light in the developed photos. (2 people were hung in the courtyard there). 

I guess it's like most things, you have to be there...


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## A4K (Jun 6, 2010)

Double post...I thought this was cured..?


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## rochie (Jun 6, 2010)

a little sceptical my self but my wife see's at least one just about every night and a few weeks ago my 12yo daughter came out of the bathroom late one night and say her great gnad mothers dog on the landing !!!!!!
its been dead for years and is buried in the back garden


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## B-17engineer (Jun 6, 2010)

With Karl...a little skeptical but open to the idea


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## Lucky13 (Jun 29, 2010)

Why isn't there any decent ghost programs on the picture box, besides those sh*tty 'Most Haunted' shows?


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## Lucky13 (Jun 29, 2010)

Interesting stuff Eric, thanks for sharing!


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## Smoke (Jun 29, 2010)

I guess you'd call me an open minded skeptic.

I don't believe in them, but I don't disbelieve either.


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## Njaco (Jun 29, 2010)

Heres my take....

I believe that there are at times very highly charged emotional moments in ones life and that emotional residue will take a form in one way or another - hence 'ghosts'. People being people and everyone having a different make-up I believe some people are more sensitive to these 'energy' leftovers and percieve them in different ways. Children may be able to see more than adults as they are developing and some just have a higher sense of recieving them. I once heard that even the most genius among us only use about 10% of the brain at any given time so this may be something that we're not cognizant of or in control of. Just my opinion.

The one meeting I remember is years ago I had an animal call at a house and as we were talking I heard footsteps walking up and down the stairs to the second floor just a few feet away from me - I could see nothing! The resident commented it was the ghost of the house, he was harmless and thats all he did was just walk up and down the stairs. Every hair on my back was standing at attention!


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## jamierd (Jun 29, 2010)

When i was posted to Napier barracks in Dortmund it was very obviously a former airfield in my second year there my room mate who we called yum yum (he was a chef and a damn good one ) came running back to the block as if he was being chased by satan him self . He was obviously terrified of something it took us about 10 minutes to get any sense out of him at all when we finally managed to figure out what he was saying it turned out he was checking the cookhouse prior to locking up at the end of the day he went upstairs to where the offices were and was coming out of the bosses office when according to him somrebody with 2 bandaged hands came through the wall of the corridor and started screaming at him in german at which point he bolted leaving the whole place wide open.3 of us went over and looked around couldnt see anything locked up and left.Yum Yum took it on himself to become historical researcher for a while and discovered that there had been several sighting since the war in the cookhouse which it turned out was the med centre /infirmary during the lufwaffe years .did he see a ghost ? i dont know but something certainly scared the crap out of him


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## Bernhart (Jun 29, 2010)

my mom passed away in 1992, was sick for about a year, spent most of her last days at home but was having trouble breathing and went into hospital. Family was by her side throughout the night and she passed about 5 am. we all went back to the house before getting up early afternoon to make funeral arrangements. Anyway sometime while i was sleeping I woke up?? saw her sitting on the end of my bed. she looked about late twenties early thirties and all she said was 'you will be alright" not sure if i was dreaming or it was a ghost but seemed very real to me.


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## javlin (Jun 30, 2010)

Believe;more dimensions than what we percieve.


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## Gnomey (Jun 30, 2010)

Certainly I believe in them, my aunts house is supposedly haunted. There is something around anyway...


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## GrauGeist (Jul 1, 2010)

I've had a number of situations that I could share, but the one that really stands out would be an instance that happened back when I was about 3 1/2 - 4 years old.

My Grandmother had been watching me while my Mom was at work. In the evening, when she came to pick me up, her and my Grandmother went to the back room to get something, and I was waiting by the kitchen door with only the flourescent light illuminating the kitchen/dining area.

There was an older gentleman at the kitchen table smiling at me and of course I smiled back. He seemed very familiar and I remember having the impression that he was a real nice person. Anyway, Mom finally came out and and we left...and on the way home, I told Mom about the "nice man who was smiling at me".

Mom said "what man?" and I explained to her about the gentleman at the table. She called my Grandmother and asked her, and she also wondered who I was talking about, since there wasn't anyone there but her and my Aunt.

I guess I was able to give a good enough description of who it was that I saw...because Mom was finally able to figure out that I was describing my Grandfather. Who had passed away a year and a half before I was born...


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## B-17engineer (Aug 22, 2010)

Holy crap...

Was a skeptic till last night....my family saw an advertisement for a ghost tour featured on the travel channel so we thought oh lets try it....I had my camera and I caught two of these 'orb' things very clear on my camera and a few that are a bit faded. Also, I didn't see it but a few people just started saying holy crap because in the top window of one of the witch's jails they said they saw a face, a pale face with wavy black hair...the guide said that its a apparition that goes by the name of "The Lady in Black." 

No one knows who she is but she's appeared in photos over the years. Also, pictures I've taken of the guide, behind him seems to be the outline of something and its just creepy! 

I'm not a skeptic anymore......that was freaky man!!!  

We visited a church that was built over their old church, the house of the first accused witch, the courthouse where they were sentenced to death, the old jail they were kept in, and the Sheriffs house where they saw the lady.


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## Wildcat (Aug 22, 2010)

Cool Harrison. Can you post the pics mate?


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## B-17engineer (Aug 22, 2010)

Sure I'm sending them to someone from a TV channel who offered to take a look...when I get a definitive answer I'll post them !


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## T Bolt (Aug 22, 2010)

Yea man, you've got to post them!


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## magnu (Aug 22, 2010)

I was chatting to one of my customers last week and he is part of a team of ghost hunters who organize tours in a local mine as I was working on him I was sure someone came in to the studio but when I looked up there was no one there. He had also felt the presence. He was telling me of a ghost watch they did in a pub in a nearby town, a friend of his who was a real skeptic was taking a lot of photos using a large flash when he was suddenly knocked to the floor with a very large red welt appearing on his face.


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## Lucky13 (Dec 7, 2013)

Looking to get some ghost stories, haunted places books, for Christmas, for my adopted sisters, which are the best ones, which gives you the chills reading?


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## Airframes (Dec 7, 2013)

The chills reading? Any publication from the current Government ...............

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## Lucky13 (Dec 7, 2013)

Chills old boy, _not_ a horror feeling....


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## Airframes (Dec 7, 2013)

Ah! Sorry old chap. Anyway, there's an interesting one by Bruce Barrymore Halpenny, but I can't remember the proper title!
It's something like Ghost Stories, or Haunted Fields - I loaned my copy to some Judy, and never got it back. But it's a collection of allegedly true accounts about aviation-related hauntings mainly, as far as I recall, on airfields or crash sites in the UK, and makes for some interesting reading.
I do remember having first-hand experience of two of the places covered, before reading the book, and a friend, totally divorced from aviation, or the 'haunting' subject, got scared sh**less with an experience he had at a hotel, covered in the book, which used to be an Officer's Mess, although he didn't know this at the time.

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## Lucky13 (Dec 7, 2013)

He wrote 'Ghost Stations' and 'Aaargh!: Ghosts, Mystery, Superstition' old boy....


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## Airframes (Dec 7, 2013)

That's the one old chap, 'Ghost Stations'. Got another of his - 'Failed to Return', which is rather good, but not about ghosts!


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## mikewint (Dec 7, 2013)

Seems to me that we have done this thread already under a "Paranormal" heading. If any of you recall those posts I stand firmly on the NO SUCH THING side of the fence. A recent Gallup poll showed:
GHOSTS - 32% believe - 19% Not sure
HAUNTED HOUSE - 37% believe - 16% Not sure
DEMONIC POSSESSION - 42% believe - 13% Not sure
COMMUNICATE W/DEAD - 21% believe - 23% Not sure
I read these over and over and keep checking the calender and it still shows that we are in the 21st century.
Chris - you mentioned the old "We only use 10% of our brain" That is true BECAUSE for every actively firing neuron in the brain there are rougly 9 GLIAL cells. These are support cells which perform all of the life functions necessary to keep the active neurons alive. Neurons are so specialized that they cannot perform their own life functions. So yes, thinking (neurons) is rougly 10% if the brain. Glial cells cannot think.
I also point out that sensory inputs from the eyes, ears, skin, etc. are received by the brain which then INTERPRETS them oft times seamlessly filling in any missing blanks in the data. Thus flashing lights APPEAR to be in motion. Your "Blind Spot" or FOVEA is something you are never aware of as the brain fills in missing data. The environment is PERCEIVED not actually seen

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## pattle (Dec 7, 2013)

I have had a number of experiences since being a small child but have learnt that it is best to keep them to myself as people tend to treat it as a joke. Since this is an anon forum there is little for me to lose so here goes. When I was about 5 I saw a headless man walking about the kitchen, when I think about this it makes me laugh because I remember that at the time I just sat watching him with interest as he was looking through the cupboards and I couldn't understand how he ever hoped to find what he was looking for with no head.
Another time I was asleep in my friends living room one night and awoke to find him knelt staring at me from the corner of the room, when I asked him why he was knelt there staring at me like that and was he alright he just faded away, I remember the room was pitch dark but that his apparition was luminous grey. So anyway I decided to go upstairs and check on him, I went into his room and spent some time shaking him violently by the shoulders to wake him up which eventually he did. A few years later he discovered that he suffered from a sleeping disorder that can suffocate you in your sleep.
One night a friend and I were walking down a country lane that had a disputed right of way, the thing was that one of the people that lived along this lane was in the habit of coming out and challenging people over this right of way. On this particular night we saw someone dressed in what looked like a almost luminous grey jogging suit approach us pushing a bicycle and I remember we could even hear the ticking of the bicycles sprocket as he approached us. I remember saying to my friend that we are going to have argument with this person over us walking down here but just as we got to about 10 foot of the man with the bicycle he faded away and at the same time a cat which was stood stationary in front of us let out an ear piercing scream and shot off through the hedge. As I asked my mate if he had seen what I had seen a freezing cold gust of wind powered its way through a thick hedge, this was on a still warm summers night and my mate was absolutely bricking himself with eyes like dinner plates. 
I have also known a number of hardened sceptics that have seen things which have changed their minds. There is a pub in Bournemouth that was bombed in the war with heavy loss of life (a thread exists on this forum entitled the Metropole Hotel bombing of something similar). During my youth the pub had changed it's name from the Metropole to the Gander on the Green and none of us knew of it's history, I was a regular in this pub and knew most of the regulars and bar staff some of who would tell of the grey lady. Most people took the grey lady as a joke or wind up, one of my friends was completely adamant that ghosts didn't exist until one night when he was taking part in a lock in and saw her with his own eyes. 
I knew another bloke who was a snowdrop in the RAF, he was a very dry and uninteresting character who said that he didn't believe in ghosts but that when he was stationed on this old wartime airfield there was an office that required a 24 hour guard. Most of his fellow snowdrops would hate guarding this office and would do everything in their power to get out of doing so, he said the problem was that sometimes when you were stood outside of its single locked door you could hear a phone ring and a conversation take place, the room was sealed and guarded and nobody could get in or out. The same bloke said there was a disused dispersal area on the same airfield that occasional activity was reported on and that whenever he went to investigate he could never get his German Shepherd to go anywhere near it, the dog would just stand there with the hairs on the back of its neck stood up, growling and bearing its teeth.


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## A4K (Dec 8, 2013)

Interesting mate! 

Mike, all I can say is same as before: seeing or experiencing is believing. I could just about write a book of my own personal experiences.

Jan, I have a good book back in Hungary, 'True Ghost Stories of World War 1 and 2' I think it's called. Can't remember the name of the author/ publisher unfortunately.
Has some myth stories of aircraft Gremlins and such, but most are factual accounts with names and places of military related hauntings.

Found this site on the net too: http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/5950.Best_Nonfiction_Ghost_Books


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## Lucky13 (Dec 8, 2013)

Keep them coming pals!
Seem like I'm going a ghost walk in Edinburgh on the 21st....don't know if it's underground dungeons or the real Mary King's close or whatever....looking forward to it anyway!

They also have....
Since 1999, when a homeless person broke into Mackenzie's stone coffin for the night, Greyfriars Churchyard has been the epicentre of an escalation of unexplained events linked to the ghost of Mackenzie; known colloquially as the Mackenzie Poltergeist. The Mackenzie Poltergeist has been called the most well-documented paranormal phenomenon in the world. Even before 1999, there had been reports of unusual disturbances in the graveyard. Between 1990 and 2006 there were 350 reported attacks and 170 reports of people collapsing. Visitors reported being cut, bruised, bitten, scratched and most commonly blacking out. Some complained later of bruises, scratches and gouge-marks on their bodies. Most attacks and feelings of unease occurred in MacKenzie's Black Mausoleum and the Covenantors Prison. In 2000, an exorcist, Colin Grant was summoned to the graveyard to perform an exorcism ceremony; he was said to have picked up "evil forces" and claimed that the forces were too overpowering and feared that they could kill him. A few weeks later, he died suddenly of a heart attack. Edinburgh City Council closed off that part of the cemetery until an Edinburgh-based historian and author, Jan Andrew Henderson, persuaded the council to allow controlled visits to that part of the churchyard and in turn this developed into a nocturnal guided tour, which became a local attraction.


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## A4K (Dec 8, 2013)

Not a happy bunch there then Jan... would definitely think twice before visiting a place like that!


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## Lucky13 (Dec 8, 2013)

Totally agree mate!


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## pattle (Dec 8, 2013)

It is also easy to make mistakes and especially so when you have been drinking. I remember one night sitting on my back porch drinking extra strong village wine when the grim reaper appeared out in the garden, I clearly saw his skeletal figure cavorting around in front of me about forty feet away and I shouted out to him "b**ger off I'm not ready yet" at which point he slowly melted into the background and I went to bed. When I got up next morning somebody had hung their washing out in exactly the same spot I had seen him.


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## pattle (Dec 8, 2013)

A4K said:


> Not a happy bunch there then Jan... would definitely think twice before visiting a place like that!



This story reminds me of the Highgate vampire, they are said to have tracked him back to his crypt and later filled it with concrete mixed with garlic!


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## mikewint (Dec 8, 2013)

A4K/Pattie and any one else here on the other side of the fence, I do not make fun of you nor do I discount WHAT you are reporting. I firmly believe that you are reporting your PERCEPTIONS. However A4K your statement "Seeing is believing" is where we totally part company. I SAW David Copperfield apperar on a motorcycle in mid-air AND make a railroad car dissappear, I SAW him float in mid-air. Do I believe he really did teleport them or has magical powers, hardly, yet these same people PERCEIVE some natural phenomona for which they have no easy explanation and suddenly their PERCEPTION becomes reality and we have a ghost. 
Saw some clowns on the SciFi channel talking to some type of electrical/magnetic field meter that was undergoing some type of fluctuation and suddenly, LO and BEHOLD they were talking to the ghost of Annie Chapman who picks out the Ripper from a list of possible suspects.
As I stated before, I have been in places where hundreds have died horribly and not one single ghost. Let me reverse your statement: Believing is Seeing


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## GrauGeist (Dec 8, 2013)

Well Mike, with all due respects, I've had several stories told to me by very credible sources.

One story, was where a woman with long black hair and a blue victorian dress would appear in the hallway of the house or pass down the stairway from the 2nd storey landing, eventually passing into one wall or another. The house (and others in the neighborhood) were built over a long gone town. This was seen by several family members, actually, my Mom, my Aunt and my stepdad. I might mention that my stepdad is a former United States Marine, a veteran of Korea and a survivor of the battle Chosin.

My Uncle Earl told a story of seeing a man on the side of the road late one snowy evening and stopped to see if he was in need of help. The man disappeared before his eyes so Uncle Earl got out to see what happened. No foot prints in the snow, no trace of him to be seen. He found out later that this apparition has happened over the years in the very spot where a car went over the side of the mountain road in the 1940's, killing the driver. My Uncle Earl is a retired Unites States Navy Chief, starting his career serving aboard destroyers in the PTO, surviving actions like the Battle of the Solomons, kamikaze attacks and more.

I've heard other encounters by very credible sources...but these two sources mentioned above come from two men who have seen and survived death in circumstances of an unimaginable level.


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## pattle (Dec 8, 2013)

It is not important to me whether somebody believes in this or not, there is no harm in not believing and I can understand why some people don't.


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## mikewint (Dec 9, 2013)

Dave, I totally and completely believe everything that you and other are saying and reporting. I don't know any other way to say it but I repeat, *Perception is not necessarily reality.* Charles Dickens said it best. When Scrooge first encounters Marley's "Ghost", He (Scrooge does what so many do not do, he questions his own senses. Marley's ghost asks, "Why do you doubt your senses?" Scrooge scoffs that *"...a little thing affects them. A slight disorder of the stomach makes them cheat. You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!" Later, more pointedly he says, "Humbug, I tell you! Humbug!" *
Humans depend mostly on vision which is actually a series of still pictures taken at a rate of 8-10 per second which the brain knits together to PERCEIVE motion. That's why movies or TV images seem to move. It is also why the "Hand is faster than the eye". Even at that rate there is too much data so the brain filters and focuses. Magicians know this and have pretty girls in scanty costumes. The brain also focuses on motion. Why magicians have the girls in motion or move their hands and body to focus attention away from the real action. Experience teaches that light travels in straight lines thus if we perceive something in front of us we believe it is really there and 99.9% of the time it is, yet the atmosphere can bend light. I know that the air above a hot road is bending light yet I perceive a reflection of the blue sky on the road which becomes water in front of me. Driving down the road in the evening and looking at the moon racing through the trees I perceive it chasing me. Knowing it isn't does not change the perception.
24/7 the brain receives data from the senses. It grows accustomed to this and actually requires it. Humans in sensory deprivation tanks quickly hallucinate seeing/hearing/feeling/etc that which is not there as the brain supplies its own data. Quite simply, when data is not supplied by the environment, the brain fills in the gaps. A bit of cultural priming and a half-seen flickering shadow becomes a Ghost. 
I've fired thousands of rounds at moving shadows in the treeline.


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## bobbysocks (Dec 11, 2013)

i am surprised with the 42% believing in demonic possession. i figured that number would be way low.

i have no ghost stories myself per say. i do have second hand knowledge by 2 very reliable people...one of them being my sister....the other being a lady who became a good friend later. it was her ( the friends ) staunch belief in being truthful and knowing my own sister wasnt a BSer...i gave this story a lot of creedance. anyways this was right after they had met and were out for a walk around town. the gal lived in the 3rd floor apt of an old beautiful victorian house. there were only 2 ways in....one was a long 3 story ( of course ) outside set of stair. that was the main entrance for the apt. the other was the stairwell that led to the lower floors. but since that led into someone else's apt the door was bolted and locked. anyways it was dark when they finished their walk and as they approached the house they both stopped cold as they could make out the distinct figure of someone standing in the window of the house. then they could see the person walking through the livingroom via a couple other windows. they quickly ran around the back and saw no one coming down or running from the stairs. with the stairs in full view they knocked on door of the first floor apt and told the neighbor what they had just seen. he grabbed a ball bat and went up the stairs with them. the door was locked so he entered after the girl opened it. they all entered but found no one. suspecting that whomever it was they saw left via the inside doorway they looked...only to find it bolted and locked from the inside ( where they were ). after the guy left the girl confided in my sister that a lot of strange things happened in this apt. she would wake to find all the cabinet doors in the kitchen open and the TV would turn on by itself in the middle of the night. my sister knew what she saw in the window but was skepical of the doors and tv thing. she offered to spend the night so that the woman would not have to be alone....incase the visitor returned. about 3 in the morning she was startled awake by the sound of the tv in front of her hissing loudly ( in those days TV stations signed off shortly after 1 or 2 am. not only was the TV on...but like was told to her earlier...all of the kitchen cabinet doors and drawers were opened. she ( my sister ) swears there was absolutely no way she could have been pranked by her friend.....her turning on the tv then running to her bedroom....and she believes she would have heard the drawers and doors being opened as he is a light sleeper. the girl only stayed there for a little over a month then moved to another place and had no such issues at her new apt. it made a staunch believer out of my sister...has removed a lot of doubt in my mind as well. but personally in all the strange things i have come across....that is one i have yet to knowingly experience myself.


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## mikewint (Dec 11, 2013)

Houdini was constantly accused of having paanormal abilities. He constantly denied these and was always careful to refer to his ILLUSIONS. Some newer "Magicians" are not so forthcoming (David Blaine comes immediately to mind). His latest TV special was called "Believe". Again I do not. My son performed semi-pro as a magician and I helped so I know how many of these illusions are performed. Blaine's needle through arm was being done by my 16YO son back in 1985.
Houdini spent the last 1/2 of his life looking for a real medium or any proof of ghosts and never found any. Several research societies offer million dollar rewards for such PROVEABLE phemomon - there are no takers. Bess Houdini waited many years for Harry to contact from the "Great Beyond" and many Societies of Magicians still try today---alas no letters from Harry to this day
Anecdotal stories of PERCEPTION are not proof and agitated people are highly suggestible so a dimly lit scene, a window 36ft in the air, shifting light - curtains moving and we have a ghostman strolling across the appartment. Power surges in the early AM and a jury-rigged wired old house trips a solenoid - and a Ghost turns on my TV.
Sorry guys dead is dead, never had even one cause a bit of trouble, now the living on the other hand....


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## GrauGeist (Dec 11, 2013)

Gotta admit, Mike, you sure do give it a good try! 

There will always be a high percentage of anomolies that can be explained (perceived, imagined, swamp gas, weather balloon, etc) but out of all those occurances, a small percentage will always remain unknown.

As far as my Stepdad's visitor, no one knows who she is or why she's there, but after several years of researching, my Mom found out that a small town had occupied that area but was destroyed in a storm surge during a terrible winter storm. Long after, a harbor was built and the area was improved, but the missing town was lost to modern memory. Mom also found out that other people had seen the "Lady in Blue", so it wasn't just them and all this was found out after the fact. No power of suggestion, no odd peripheral abberrations, reflections from headlights, etc. 
The apparition was even disliked by their dog, and using human-trait discounts probably wouldn't apply with dogs, since they have a higher sense of perception.


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## mikewint (Dec 12, 2013)

Dave, I try. Everyone is a unique individual and I can never know what another actually PERCEIVES. What I do know for absolute sure is how fallable human senses are yet how much credence we give to those fallable senses. So called "eye-witness" testimony is the worst possible and when stories become second, third, forth, etc. handed it gets worsest. I certainly am not in a position to explain every occurance but again I am VERY confident that Occams Razor is applicable to all physical phenomona and Ghosts don't fit logically into any scenario. Personality certainly has a physical component which comes from internal chemistry and sensory input a Ghost has none of these. How could any type of "humaness" be maintained. It's like the old funeral home consolation "Well I know Bill is up there (never down there) looking after his family" Really!! Wonder what happens to Bill after his kids grow up and die? Does Bill watch out for his grandkids? How about when they die? Wonder if there is a Heavenly Retirement plan?
And that poor, poor, Lady in Blue, she must have really pissed the Big Guy off to be trapped forever doing the same thing over and over with no surcease, her only job: Scaring the Bejesus out of the ocasional human.
So if you can send her this way and she'll sit in my lap and say Howdy I'll change my perception of reality. Until then you is gonna have-ta OPEN the sack so I can personally SEE the pig inside


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## GrauGeist (Dec 12, 2013)

Well, the closest I ever came to seeing the Lady in Blue was the dog went freakin' nuts late one evening, running halfway down the hall and barking up at the stairway. Seeing as I was the only one home at the time, I picked up a little "heat" and went down the hall to investigate. Nothing there, but the dog was acting weird.

When the folks got home, I mentioned the dog was acting like a retard and that was the end of it.

It would be interesting to see some real science on these occurances, though. If a dog can perceive these things, something real must be going on.


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## mikewint (Dec 12, 2013)

Dave, animals certainly have senses different than human, being able to hear beyond the human range both in pitch and intensity and some can see into the near infra-red. When I let the dogs out at night they sometimes run to the treeline and bark at the dark hair on their neck standing straight. I don't hear or see anything even with a flashlight. Quite simply dogs bark to warn the pack of possible danger/prey and to warn-off hostile critters. Animals have the same fight/flight reflexes as humans and have learned through millenia of natural selection: "better safe than sorry". So they warn at the slightest non-normal sensory input, the very same half-seen moving shadow/noise that would set off my alarm bells had I been aware of it. The primitive brain stem is a powerful force which has only recently been overlain by cortical thinking.
Knowing that light beams can be bent or reflected does not stop me from seeing the mirage "in front of me" or the elephant behind the slanted mirror


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## Matt308 (Dec 12, 2013)

I love this ****. We had a "ghost" in the house in Dublin, California" Stuff would go bang in the night in our little 1200sqft in the early 1970s. Door slams, banging furniture and kitchen doors being left open.

Dad would make a deal out of it and then say it was likely just his Marine buddy J.P., drunkenly coming into the house after hours. Never bought that one from the old man. Knowing dad, he would have either gotten up and joined in the revelry or kicked his drunken azz out of the house. Later as I got older, dad built a 'fort' in the attic space. There was a door that went into the crawls space. I always eyed that door with extreme prejudice.


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## yulzari (Dec 13, 2013)

Just as we have to distinguish between accuracy and veracity so we must distinguish between ghosts and 'ghostly phenomenon'.

I believe that the incidents reported by members here are genuinely as reported but that does mean that the explanation is correct?

I do not believe in ghosts. There is no reason for ghosts to have clothes and hospitals and battlefields should be knee deep in them but they are not. Thousands of people die in hospitals daily, often in distress and pain sadly. Imagine how many there should be at the sites of concentration camps as opposed to suburban Victorian houses. My house dates back to at least the 18th century but is ghost free as far as I know. As was the 14th century core of another house we lived in for some years.

However, there are reports that better match past recordings than the spirits of the dead. In this I retain an open opinion but the ability of the human mind to routinely fill in the gaps in our perceptions and seek patterns in random data explains most reports to me. This is an ability that was a key to survival in our hunter gatherer past and we retain it in the modern world.

If you have ever seen the inside out rotating Einstein face mould trick then you know you cannot over ride the brain's attempt to make sense of the senseless. Even though you know half the time the image is concave you still see it as always convex. As a young soldier on a guard stag on the Thetford training area just before dawn I saw a kangaroo. I knew there are no kangaroos there but still it looked like one. I called over two others who saw the same. When dawn properly lit it up it was just a tree branch yet, despite knowing it could not be a kangaroo I could not make my brain see it otherwise no matter how hard I tried, until the sun rose. 

BTW, before anyone asks, yes I have seen the real feral Wallabies on the Leek training area.

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## Alex . (Dec 13, 2013)

STANTA I'm guessing? Full of nettles. 

I was seeing shapes of people the other night during a night ascent of Snowdon for sunrise photos, it's easy for your mind to play tricks on you when you've not slept. 

Some interesting stories on another related thread I made a while back: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/off-topic-misc/paranormal-unusual-happenings-38477.html


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## fubar57 (Dec 13, 2013)

yulzari said:


> Just as we have to distinguish between accuracy and veracity so we must distinguish between ghosts and 'ghostly phenomenon'.
> 
> I believe that the incidents reported by members here are genuinely as reported but that does mean that the explanation is correct?
> 
> I do not believe in ghosts. There is no reason for ghosts to have clothes and hospitals and battlefields should be knee deep in them but they are not. Thousands of people die in hospitals daily, often in distress and pain sadly. Imagine how many there should be at the sites of concentration camps as opposed to suburban Victorian houses. My house dates back to at least the 18th century but is ghost free as far as I know. As was the 14th century core of another house we lived in for some years.



An article I read said that a "spirit" will mainly haunt an area it was familiar with, ie: it's home, hometown or an area where it spent a lot of time.

Geo


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## Matt308 (Dec 13, 2013)

...great. I'm destined to haunt my toilet.

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## meatloaf109 (Dec 13, 2013)

mikewint said:


> Dave, animals certainly have senses different than human, being able to hear beyond the human range both in pitch and intensity and some can see into the near infra-red. When I let the dogs out at night they sometimes run to the treeline and bark at the dark hair on their neck standing straight. I don't hear or see anything even with a flashlight. Quite simply dogs bark to warn the pack of possible danger/prey and to warn-off hostile critters. Animals have the same fight/flight reflexes as humans and have learned through millenia of natural selection: "better safe than sorry". So they warn at the slightest non-normal sensory input, the very same half-seen moving shadow/noise that would set off my alarm bells had I been aware of it. The primitive brain stem is a powerful force which has only recently been overlain by cortical thinking.
> Knowing that light beams can be bent or reflected does not stop me from seeing the mirage "in front of me" or the elephant behind the slanted mirror



I have posted my own experiences on a different part of the forum. 
And while I bow to science, (I love science!), and logic, (I love logic!), I still remain adamant that weird crap (as described earlier) happens at that house. This happens to this day. I stopped in to the house a couple of weeks ago, and the current renters were moving out because of the loud power tool noises and crap from the basement workshop at 3 am.
Mike, I don't know how to explain it. It seems absurd to me as well that a workman is trapped in that house to nightly, (or morningly) make noises, but there it is.
The house goes for $700 a month rental. I would gladly stay in the basement again, if given the chance just to document the weird stuff I have related to you. As I told you earlier, we went for rational and science first.


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## fubar57 (Dec 13, 2013)

Two occasions. Before we got married, my wife's parents asked us to look after their house for the weekend. It was after midnight, she was in bed upstairs and I was in the basement watching T.V.. For a while I could hear, in the adjacent room, what sounded like a ball being bounced on the wall, then hitting the floor, repeating for about 10 minutes. At that point, my future wife yelled down to me to quit bouncing the ball. Now, having watched several horror movies and knowing full well what happens to the handsome young lad when he goes to investigate, I went upstairs, told my lady to get dressed and we left for my parents place, still hearing the ball bouncing downstairs. Before we left, we checked, and the doors were still locked from earlier that night. We came back the next day, went down to the room where we heard the ball bouncing, and sitting in the middle of the floor was a tennis ball. Armed with a baseball bat, the entire house was searched...nothing. The two exterior doors had locked dead bolts and all the windows were locked. The next time, we were renting her recently deceased grandfathers house(her grandmother dying about 10 years prior). Her more than slightly retarded dog refused to go in the basement, growling any time we tried to get her to come down. On several occasions, while I was in logging camp, she would go downstairs and the rocking chair would be in motion and she felt as if she were being watched. The people who bought the house later told friends of ours that strange things happened in the basement and they never felt comfortable for extended periods of time down there.

Geo

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## Lucky13 (Dec 14, 2013)

Better than trying to explain myself.....

From the Wiki..

_The Haunted Vicarage
Borgvattnet is most renowned for its old vicarage which was built in 1876, and is reputed to be a haunted house. The first documented mentioning of ghosts in the vicarage is in a letter dated 1927 which was written by chaplain Nils Hedlund who lived in the house at the time. In the 1930s, Hedlund's successor, chaplain Rudolf Tängdén, claimed to have seen the ghost of a woman in the house, and in the 1940s the subsequent chaplain, Otto Lindgren, and his wife said they experienced paranormal activity including weird sounds and moving objects.

In 1941 a woman who visited the vicarage woke up one night in the guestroom to see that she was not alone. Three old women were sitting in a sofa staring at her in the dark room. She turned on the light and the three ghosts were still there but appeared to be more blurry.

In 1945, chaplain Erik Lindgren moved into the vicarage and he started writing down in his journal all the strange things he experienced. Lindgren had bought a rocking chair which he brought to the vicarage. However, he was never able to sit in his chair very long without being thrown out of it by an invisible force._


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## GrauGeist (Dec 14, 2013)

Seeing the "armed with a baseball bat" comment got me wondering...so in the event one does encounter a ghost/spirit/etc...how does one go about beating the sh!t out of it?

I mean seriously, a baseball bat wouldn't do much good, nor would my first choice: a Remington 12 ga. autoloder packed with the proper rounds to turn a bad man's head into a canoe. Swatting or shooting a ghost would be like spanking a column of smoke, I suppose...so what, a vacuum cleaner to suck the annoying apparition up or perhaps an electric fan turned up to "hurricane" mode?


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## fubar57 (Dec 14, 2013)

I think if I saw something, I'd smack the G/F in the knee cap to give me a head start. 

Geo


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## pattle (Dec 14, 2013)

Battlefields and hospitals are regularly claimed to be haunted. I don't try to explain what ghosts are because I don't know what ghosts are and I don't think anyone else does either, we need to accept that there are certain things that science can not explain instead of smugly believing that we know everything.
These orbs that show up on digital pictures are a good example of this. I can't believe that orbs are anything paranormal because they crop up randomly so often on my pictures. However to the best of my knowledge digital camera manufacturers have been unable to explain what causes these orbs to appear on pictures and have been unable to remove this flaw from their products, so for me this proves scientists don't know everything. There are plenty of other things scientists can't explain.


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## Airframes (Dec 14, 2013)

Yep, they can *not* explain how a woman's mind works ......... ghost or otherwise.

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## yulzari (Dec 14, 2013)

Why do people frequently feel fear when subject to these ghostly phenomena? Even if there were ghosts there should be no reason to feel fear. It is eminently logical to feel fear if confronted by a live intruder but not a dead one.

I am quite satisfied it is the brain noting something unidentifiable reacting as if it is night in the wild and all you have is a pointy stick. Fear breeds alertness and fast and aggressive reactions which is exactly what you want in order not to being eaten. it is telling how often these incidents occur at night (with honourable exceptions). 

Do not misunderstand me. I am sure these reports are sincere, but mistaken. I recall one example of cupboard doors opening at night that was traced to a factory across the road that automatically cleaned it's pipes at the same time each night. That caused a hydraulic hammering transmitted by sympathetic resonance to the water pipes that ran across the road and vibrated the cupboard doors loose. A simple piece of rubber flooring jammed between the factory's pipes and the water ones stopped the phenomenon. The reportee had sincerely reported that, when they shone a torch on the cupboards at night, they could briefly see a ghostly hand on the cupboard doors. It is another reminder that the brain does not report what it sees. It receives data, interprets it and gives us the processed version, not the raw data. Hence we can have optical illusions and impersonators.

Try a simple test. There are some links to reported incidents on other past threads on the forum. Try reading some posts very late at night after rereading this thread. Notice the anxiety responses as you read (hence the good old fashioned ghost stories told late at night). Now read some more but in the afternoon after a good lunch. Not so scary after all are they? It makes sense. In safe daylight the brain can see there are no threats to hand. At night the (primitive) you is not so sure.

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## pattle (Dec 14, 2013)

Like Toyah used to say, It's a mystery.


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2013)

GrauGeist said:


> Seeing the "armed with a baseball bat" comment got me wondering...so in the event one does encounter a ghost/spirit/etc...how does one go about beating the sh!t out of it?
> 
> I mean seriously, a baseball bat wouldn't do much good, nor would my first choice: a Remington 12 ga. autoloder packed with the proper rounds to turn a bad man's head into a canoe. Swatting or shooting a ghost would be like spanking a column of smoke, I suppose...so what, a vacuum cleaner to suck the annoying apparition up or perhaps an electric fan turned up to "hurricane" mode?



I think he was implying that their might be a physical intruder in the house.


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## GrauGeist (Dec 14, 2013)

Matt308 said:


> I think he was implying that their might be a physical intruder in the house.


Right...and then discovering the intruder is other than human leads us to the quandry


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## mikewint (Dec 14, 2013)

Matt, in addition to the bat, for corporeal intruders, you need one of these


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2013)

What happens if we cross the streams, Igor?


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## mikewint (Dec 14, 2013)

pattle said:


> Battlefields and hospitals are regularly claimed to be haunted. I don't try to explain what ghosts are because I don't know what ghosts are and I don't think anyone else does either, we need to accept that there are certain things that science can not explain instead of smugly believing that we know everything.
> These orbs that show up on digital pictures are a good example of this. I can't believe that orbs are anything paranormal because they crop up randomly so often on my pictures. However to the best of my knowledge digital camera manufacturers have been unable to explain what causes these orbs to appear on pictures and have been unable to remove this flaw from their products, so for me this proves scientists don't know everything. There are plenty of other things scientists can't explain.



Speaking as one who is firmly planted in the science camp: 
I do not think that I know, or can know for that matter, all the ins and outs of the universe, BUT, present-day scientific principles/laws are not opinions nor are they anecdotal stories of what my third aunts second cousin twice removed once saw. They are precepts that have been tested over and over and challenged over and over and have never been shown to be in error. So beyond a shadow of doubt I strongly discount the existence of Ghosts/demons/appraitions/haunted houses/speaking to the dead/ect. That does not mean that I do not admit to a non-zero finite probability of their existence. Much as there is a similiar probability of fliping a coin and getting 1000 heads in a row. The random motion of air molecules could put them all in one corner of the room leaving me in a pure vacuum, could happen.
No scientist has ever claimed to know everything, in fact, quite to the contrary, the more I have learned in my life the more I realize how little I know. But once again what I do know I really KNOW and as such, the burden of proof rests upon those who wish to try to overturn the laws of science. 
So you may very well have a pill that turns water into gasoline but I'm going to say "Horse Hocky" until you prove it.
I've personally been on those battlefields and hospitals and watched close friends and enemies die and nary one ghost in all that time. 
So if you've got some type of valid proof you can earn a cool 2.2 million dollars from several groups that offer standing rewards for any such proof, some dating from the days of Houdini. Your beliefs are yours and you are welcome to them as for me, sorry, you're gonna have-ta OPEN the poke befur I'm goona belief theres a pig init!


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## Marcel (Dec 14, 2013)

Like Mike, I'm firmly in the science camp. But I came to realise that reality doesn't exist. What is real or not is not one thing and can be different for everyone. It is in the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics. My mother, although a firm unbeliever felt the embrace of my father a few weeks ago. It was very real she said, so real that she turned on the light, half expecting him to be there. My father died in 2006. Maybe he was there or not, who knows. For her at that moment he was there in her reality.

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## mikewint (Dec 14, 2013)

Marcel, most exactly sir, perfectly stated, reality is unique for each and everyone of us. We both may look at a fire truck and say "It's red" but neither of us knows what the other is perceiving. And as for your mother how very very wonderful for her I truely wish she has that "ghost" twice a day. What would you give for the same sensation?
"Am I a man dreaming I'm a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming I'm a man"

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## pattle (Dec 14, 2013)

Mikewint, we are not going to agree on this one, I hope we can agree on that much. Like I said earlier, there is absolutely no harm in not believing in ghosts it is just a matter of opinion whether they exist or not, but lets face it we will find both out the truth eventually and if I'm right I then I will enjoy telling you I told you so, but in the mean time I am happy to wait for that small pleasure to arrive. The paranormal is not something that I am passionate about, for me it is only an interesting topic of conversation.


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2013)

Is not one's reality how we perceive our lives?

[Somebody flag that as a quote of profound wisdom. It came directly from my beer, I swear.]

Mike's reality is cold and somber. At least that is how I perceive it.  Oh and Meat's penis is small. Remember he said it was a shower, not a grower! [But that is another storyline of which he continues to steal].


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## pattle (Dec 14, 2013)

Matt308 said:


> Is not one's reality how we perceive our lives?
> 
> [Somebody flag that as a quote of profound wisdom. It came directly from my beer, I swear.]
> 
> Mike's reality is cold and somber. At least that is how I perceive it.  Oh and Meat's penis is small. Remember he said it was a shower, not a grower! [But that is another storyline of which he continues to steal].



Is not ones reality how we perceive our lives?

I just muddle through life with what little I know and I will cross this bridge when and if I have to, for now I have more pressing matters to contend with. There is nothing much I can do to solve the mysteries of a potential afterlife at this stage of the proceedings.

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## meatloaf109 (Dec 14, 2013)

mikewint said:


> Marcel, most exactly sir, perfectly stated, reality is unique for each and everyone of us. We both may look at a fire truck and say "It's red" but neither of us knows what the other is perceiving. And as for your mother how very very wonderful for her I truely wish she has that "ghost" twice a day. What would you give for the same sensation?
> "Am I a man dreaming I'm a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming I'm a man"



Mike, I am firmly in the camp of science. Therefore I believe that experiences such as mine should be not only provable, but explainable.
As I stated earlier, my friend and I went for rational first. We tried to figure out anything that could explain this. Granted, I am no genius, but I got quite a bit on the ball.
We did not resort to Ouija boards or any such nonsense, we really tried to find the truth.
I guess the point is, I have a place, that is verified by many people as to having the same experiences every night. I know the woman that owns it, and she would be more than happy to have this problem gone.
My friend and I were the longest renters she has ever had, mainly because we are both atheists and do not scare easily. This is a large house, two levels, five bedrooms, two bathrooms, two kitchens, a big living room, and a spacious dining room, and two garages, (one upper, one lower) as well as two large yards. (Upper and lower) It also has the workshop, and a bomb shelter. She could get more than $700 a month if anyone (other than us) would stay for more than a month.
I wish that I had the means to bring you out here so we could conduct a serious scientific investigation of this house.


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## Marcel (Dec 15, 2013)

mikewint said:


> Marcel, most exactly sir, perfectly stated, reality is unique for each and everyone of us. We both may look at a fire truck and say "It's red" but neither of us knows what the other is perceiving. And as for your mother how very very wonderful for her I truely wish she has that "ghost" twice a day. What would you give for the same sensation?
> "Am I a man dreaming I'm a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming I'm a man"


Yup, I whish I could see or feel him. Still missing my father, but not as much as she does, though.


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## yulzari (Dec 15, 2013)

Ghosts or no. I am firmly of the opinion that we will all find that there is life after death. After all, if there isn't then we won't know. 

As someone once put it. It doesn't matter so much if you believe in God. What is more important is for God to believe in you.


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## mikewint (Dec 15, 2013)

Matt, I do not see cold/somber but a realistic apprasial of the real world. I have the here and now and I througly and completely love and enjoy every minute of it and am in no hurry to leave. Ghost make absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. I have no idea how anyone can give so much credence to their sensory input when a life time of being fooled by them should have taught them better. Your dog, if you have one, knows how fallible sight is, and will sniff you, just to make sure. 
Pattle, your beliefs are indeed yours and I am not trying to change anyones beliefs. The only harm in such beliefs is when con-men/women use them to fleece the unwitting. Sadly this take place too often. So the challenge is there, probably more than $2.2 million by now for any proof of Ghosts/spirits/etc. Why does it remain unclaimed? Surely if Bill is "up there" watching over his family, he'd take them to the nearest lab, manifest himself, and gift the kiddies with all that money. So my mind is open but your gonna hafta PROOVE it.
Paul, my dear friend, getting up to your neck of the woods is definitely on my "to do" list and visiting that place is something I'd love to do. I am not sure what if anything we'll find but I am open to finding out. If nothing else maybe we'll release that poor gomer to the light so he/she/it doesn't have to work every night. Kinda a sad haunting, I'd pick a girls locker/shower room personally

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## bobbysocks (Dec 15, 2013)

GrauGeist said:


> Seeing the "armed with a baseball bat" comment got me wondering...so in the event one does encounter a ghost/spirit/etc...how does one go about beating the sh!t out of it?
> 
> I mean seriously, a baseball bat wouldn't do much good, nor would my first choice: a Remington 12 ga. autoloder packed with the proper rounds to turn a bad man's head into a canoe. Swatting or shooting a ghost would be like spanking a column of smoke, I suppose...so what, a vacuum cleaner to suck the annoying apparition up or perhaps an electric fan turned up to "hurricane" mode?



maybe the 12 ga in case its human and a squirt gun full of holy water in case it isnt.


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## meatloaf109 (Dec 15, 2013)

mikewint said:


> Matt, I do not see cold/somber but a realistic apprasial of the real world. I have the here and now and I througly and completely love and enjoy every minute of it and am in no hurry to leave. Ghost make absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. I have no idea how anyone can give so much credence to their sensory input when a life time of being fooled by them should have taught them better. Your dog, if you have one, knows how fallible sight is, and will sniff you, just to make sure.
> Pattle, your beliefs are indeed yours and I am not trying to change anyones beliefs. The only harm in such beliefs is when con-men/women use them to fleece the unwitting. Sadly this take place too often. So the challenge is there, probably more than $2.2 million by now for any proof of Ghosts/spirits/etc. Why does it remain unclaimed? Surely if Bill is "up there" watching over his family, he'd take them to the nearest lab, manifest himself, and gift the kiddies with all that money. So my mind is open but your gonna hafta PROOVE it.
> Paul, my dear friend, getting up to your neck of the woods is definitely on my "to do" list and visiting that place is something I'd love to do. I am not sure what if anything we'll find but I am open to finding out. If nothing else maybe we'll release that poor gomer to the light so he/she/it doesn't have to work every night. Kinda a sad haunting, I'd pick a girls locker/shower room personally



You and me both!


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## pattle (Dec 15, 2013)

Marcel said:


> Yup, I whish I could see or feel him. Still missing my father, but not as much as she does, though.



Sorry for your loss, your Dad must have been a great husband and father.

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## bobbysocks (Dec 15, 2013)

mikewint said:


> .... Kinda a sad haunting, I'd pick a girls locker/shower room personally



me...i am haunting the playboy mansion.

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## Airframes (Dec 15, 2013)

I think I just saw two guys in strange suits, with some sort of vacuum cleaner thingy strapped to their backs, get out of what looked like an old American, 'estate car type' Ambulance, across the street.
Who ya gonna call................


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## Njaco (Dec 15, 2013)

Live your life like God exists. If he does, then you win. If he doesn't, it won't matter.

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## meatloaf109 (Dec 15, 2013)

Airframes said:


> I think I just saw two guys in strange suits, with some sort of vacuum cleaner thingy strapped to their backs, get out of what looked like an old American, 'estate car type' Ambulance, across the street.
> Who ya gonna call................



The police?


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## meatloaf109 (Dec 15, 2013)

Njaco said:


> Live your life like God exists. If he does, then you win. If he doesn't, it won't matter.



Yes, exactly! You have it !
Congratulations on a freethinking idea. 
Welcome to the dark side. We have cookies!


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## gumbyk (Dec 15, 2013)

And Pasta!!!!
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster


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## GrauGeist (Dec 16, 2013)

gumbyk said:


> And Pasta!!!!
> Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster


I can certainly go one better than that...

Welcome to the new order!

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## fubar57 (Dec 16, 2013)

I love that site.

Geo


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## mikewint (Dec 16, 2013)

Cool site!! Mine:


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