# PZL P11c...."ugly plane" (?)



## tino (Feb 5, 2005)

PZL P.11c 1934 Model 

Type: Fighter
Weight: Empty: 1022 kg Take-off: 1650 kg Max Take-off: 1800 kg 
Length: 7.55 m
Wingspan: 10.72 m
Height: 2.85m
EngineZL Bristol Mercury VS2
Power:Take-off:560 HP
Speed: Sea level: 276 km/h At 5000m: 375 km/h Cruise: 250 km/h
Stalling: 120 km/h
Climb: Initial: 12.4m/s to 2000m: 2min 29s Service ceiling: 8040m.
Range: 550 km.
Armament:
Four synchronized forward-firing 7.9 mm PWU wz.33 machine guns in the fuselage
Disposable: 2x12,5 kg bombs.
2x7.62mm MG (ShKAS)
2x23mm cannon (VYa)
Crew: One (pilot)

Manufacturer : Panstwowe Zaklady Lotnicze (PZL) Warsaw, Poland
Power-plant: PZL Bristol Mercury VS2 engine driving wooden 2-bladed Szomanski propeller, rated at 560 hp (441 kW) for take-off. In 1934, when Lotnictwo Wojskowe (PAF) acquired the first PZL P.11 fighters, they were the most modern fighter planes in service. The P.11c was an aerodynamically clean high-wing monoplane of all-metal construction. The
characteristic bent "gull-like" shape of the wings was adopted to reduce drag by eliminating the need for any supporting structure between the center section and the fuselage.
Only five years later, when they saw combat for the first time, German Me 109 and Bf 110 fighters hopelessly outclassed them. Still, with skill and determination, Polish pilots were able to attain a remarkable number of victories, and the plane's sturdiness, maneuverability and good handling qualities helped them stage a defiant resistance under the most adverse of circumstances. Though accurate counts are sketchy, the actual number of German aircraft shot down by fighter pilots in the short campaign was probably around 105-110, to the loss of only 26 P.11s to air-combat. Given the enormous technical and numerical advantage of the Luftwaffe, these numbers show the excellent skills and determination of Polish fighter pilots and their trust in the machine that carried them into battle.


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## Nonskimmer (Feb 5, 2005)

I always thought the P.11 was a nifty looking little plane, myself.
As for the skill and bravery of the Polish pilots, I don't think it was ever in doubt. This would become even more apparent with the Polish squadrons of the RAF, later on. 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 5, 2005)

I think the P.11 is a superb looking plane, Its one of my favourites. 8) And I agree with you about the Polish pilots NS. 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 6, 2005)

it's ugly.............


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## mosquitoman (Feb 6, 2005)

It's not ugly, it's got character


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 6, 2005)

no, the lancaster has character, that's just crap............


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## kiwimac (Feb 6, 2005)

Ah Lanc,

You love the bovine excrement that is the Lancaster yet throw stones at the glory that is the P.11

How strange!

Kiwimac


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## Nonskimmer (Feb 6, 2005)

"Bovine excrement" might be a tad harse!


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## mosquitoman (Feb 6, 2005)

I think that all planes look good (unless it's a French bomber)


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 6, 2005)

Nah, Kiwimac makes more sense than anyone else on the site 


Oh shit, did I really say that?! Get my pills, im going delirious again


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## plan_D (Feb 6, 2005)

I fail to see how you could consider the Lancaster ugly, but I also fail how to see you could think the P.11c is ugly. I think they both look good.


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 7, 2005)

> I fail to see how you could consider the Lancaster ugly,



At the moment I have a very nasty, prominent boil on my chin....

So does the Lancaster


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 7, 2005)

cheap shot.............

and french bombers look brilliant...................


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## mosquitoman (Feb 7, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> and french bombers look brilliant...................


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## plan_D (Feb 7, 2005)

French bombers look like a collection of Volvos glued together.


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 7, 2005)

Old Volvos that is  Cant wait until Gran Turisno 4 on PS2, ive seen a screenshot of a Volvo 240 estate


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## kiwimac (Feb 8, 2005)

It is nice to see my genius is recognised.

Kiwimac


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## Chocks away! (Feb 21, 2005)

It's a great looking plane, and fought in the hands of heroic pilots. It's a little legend


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 21, 2005)

Yep, kinda like Polands version of the Spitfire


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## mosquitoman (Feb 21, 2005)

I'd have said the Polish I-16, outclassed but put up an amazing fight against overwhelming odds


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 21, 2005)

Yep that makes sense 8)


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## mosquitoman (Feb 21, 2005)

I said something sensible?
First time for everything


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 21, 2005)

For no reason at all, here is a picture of an Fw-189A-1 Nachtjager


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## mosquitoman (Feb 21, 2005)

I'd have thought they were too slow for nightfighting


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 21, 2005)

Me too...Hell the bombers could out run them


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## mosquitoman (Feb 21, 2005)

Depends which bombers, I can't see a Fairey Battle outrunning anything


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 21, 2005)

I think even that could do it to be honest


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 21, 2005)

well i doubt it would get the chance as it was a day bomber............


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## mosquitoman (Feb 21, 2005)

good point


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 21, 2005)

would you expect any less from me??


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## mosquitoman (Feb 21, 2005)

erm... not going to comment


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 21, 2005)

what are you implying??


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## mosquitoman (Feb 21, 2005)

nothing


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 21, 2005)

He's implying youre thick...anyone can see that...except you...you had to ask...point proven!


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## GermansRGeniuses (Feb 21, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Old Volvos that is  Cant wait until Gran Turisno 4 on PS2, ive seen a screenshot of a Volvo 240 estate













Love the 100 spoke Gold-eez...


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 21, 2005)

HARDCORE!


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## GermansRGeniuses (Feb 21, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> HARDCORE!




HRCR? ADOE?


Is there a message in there? 


Or are you just being obnoxious with the big/small - big/small - big/small - big/small? 


I am genuinely befuddled...


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 22, 2005)

Oh, Beffudled? Nyah! Orange Xylophones Indicate Oscar Uses Salt.


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## GermansRGeniuses (Feb 22, 2005)

That was a good sentence, judged completely on the randomness of its make-up!


In other words, I like the randomness of the sentence.


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 22, 2005)

Thats the trouble though, We're out of baguettes


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 6, 2005)

Aircraft camouflage of 1939 campaign
Since 1937 Polish Air Force standardised camouflage schemes on all of its aircraft. There were four basic schemes: 
Upper surfaces of wings and elevators and entire fuselage in Khaki. Lower wing and elevator surfaces in Light Blue. The most used scheme. 
Upper surfaces camouflaged in three colors: Light Olive, Dark Olive, Khaki. Lower surfaces Sliver or Light Blue for fighter. Color edges feathered or splintered. 
Trainer aircraft were painted overall Khaki. Overall Sliver or Overall Ivory White.
Sea aircraft were painted Light Green-Grey on the upper and Silver on the lower surfaces and floats. 
Generally all aircraft produced by PZL and LWS carried scheme no. 1. Scheme no. 2 was typical for Lublin R-XIII.

Color Name
Comment Federal Standard
Equivalent Humbrol

Light Khaki 
Upper surfaces of fighter and reconnaissance aircraft. Also present in Lublin R-XIII camouflage. In their entirety for training airplanes 30118
Hu:142

Dark Khaki 
Upper surfaces of bombers as the PZL 37 "Los" 30097
5pHu:110 + 1pHu:33 + 1pHu:10

Light Olive 
Upper camouflage of R-XIII 34151 Hu:151 
Dark Green 
Upper camouflage of R-XIII 34097
2pHu:80 + 1pHu:116

Ochre 
Upper camouflage of R-XIII 33245
Hu:63

Light Blue 
Lower surfaces of camouflaged R-XIII 35550
6pHu:34 + 1pHu:25 + 1pHu:89 + 2pHu:64

Light Blue-Grey 
Lower surfaces of fighter and bomber 36329
7pHu:87 + 3pHu:34

Sea Grey 
Sea aircraft 34410
6pHu:90 + 5pHu:34 + 1pHu:76 + 1pHu:64

Silver 
Lower surfaces of reconnaissance aircraft (even some R-XIII) and cockpit interiors. 17178
Hu:191


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## Brunner (Apr 1, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> no, the lancaster has character, that's just crap............



Mabye not an ultra modern plane for 1939 but it was extremely manouverable. Many LW pilots were stunned seing P11 turning almost in place.

Yes, she was slow, badly armed, but she had the character. The pilots loved P11 for the reliability and unfailingness she gave to them. It enabled the future aces to get their wings.

It should be remembered, that on base of P11, there were developed such a/c as P24, whic hserved well e.g. in Bulgaria, Turkey and in Greece. Greek pilots used them successfuly during the struggle with Reggia Aeronautica.
And on base of the airframe of p24, the IAR 80/81 was developed.

In Il2 Sturmovik/FB P11 behaves unrealisticly. It is not as manouverable as it was in reality. In the game it loses the u/c while diving at 550/600km/h. In fact P11's construction allowed to achieve greater speed in diving.

And above all, those superb gull wings, eng. Puławski's invention.
They gave the plane its extreme agility and superb visibility form the open cockpit.


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## pokoros (May 21, 2008)

I fell in love in this plane when I was 16 years old. It is a beautiful aircraft guys.


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## A4K (May 22, 2008)

Great info CharlesBronson and Brunner, thanks! I got a PZL 7 and PZL 11c from Wojtek (Wurger) which I'll be making soon, so it will come in handy!


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## Njaco (May 22, 2008)

It was from the guns of a PZL 11 that the Luftwaffe suffered its first loss of the war when 2d/Lt Wladyslaw Gnys shot down not one but two Do 17Zs of KG 77 on 1 Sept. 1939 near Zurada.


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## v2 (May 22, 2008)

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/stories/first-air-victory-wwii-648.html


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## Njaco (May 22, 2008)

Thanks V2!


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## Lucky13 (Sep 20, 2008)

I love the PZL P11.C AND the Lancaster both look great to me! 8)


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## bigZ (Sep 20, 2008)

PZL 11 looks great. But why didn't the Poles also employ the PZL 24? 168 produced 25mph faster plus 2 additional cannon and 335hp extra. Operated by Bulgaria, Greece, Rmania and Turkey.


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## Lucky13 (Sep 20, 2008)

That was an export version if my memory serves me right....


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## bigZ (Sep 20, 2008)

Lucky13 said:


> That was an export version if my memory serves me right....



Yes it is. But from the limited stats I have, apart from range its seems the better plane.


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## Lucky13 (Sep 20, 2008)

Yup....I'm sure that Wojtek and our other Polish colleagues has the answer....


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## Venganza (Sep 21, 2008)

For what it's worth, I think the P.11 was a cool looking plane. Something about the gull wings gave it a certain gracefulness. Although obsolete by WWII, it was state of the art when in first flew in 1931.


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## marshall (Sep 21, 2008)

bigZ said:


> PZL 11 looks great. But why didn't the Poles also employ the PZL 24? 168 produced 25mph faster plus 2 additional cannon and 335hp extra. Operated by Bulgaria, Greece, Rmania and Turkey.




PZL P.24 was an export version developed from P.11. Polish Air Force knew that P.11 is outdated and instead buying P.24s they were waiting for PZL.50 but due to delays PZL.50 could not be in time, and then they tried to make P.11g, an updated version of P.11 but only one prototype flew before war. Also when PAF knew that there will be no PZL.50s before war, they orderd some P.24s but none was build before war.


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## tatradog13 (Oct 8, 2008)

When the PZL P-11 was introduced, it was actually ahead of it's time. Most of the major air forces of the world were still flying bi-planes as their front-line fighters. The P-11 out-performed and out-classed them. 

Not bad for a country that disappeared from the map for more than a hundred years and wasn't reformed again until 1919 by the Versailles Treaty. Unfortunately, Poland's fledgling economy couldn't keep up with the next step in fighter technology - the low-wing monoplane. However, they did develop and produce a modern twin-engine medium bomber - the PZL P-37.


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## spit5 (Oct 9, 2008)

PZL P.50 Jastrzab - fighter


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## Messy1 (Oct 9, 2008)

I can't say that I think it's ugly, but it definitely is not one of my favorites. It is not a bad looking plane I do not think.


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## Wurger (Oct 9, 2008)

Good find Spit5.

Unfortunately there is a mistake in some post here.
The one is that the P-24 wasn't the P-11 development.The fighter plane design was started almost simultaneously with P-11 and was a study for using French engines of much more power than the English Mercury engines used for P-series powering.Of course some of P-11 parts were used for the design but these had to be adjusted to the engine of 700-1100Hp.The project could appear because of French interests in Z.Puławski's aircraft.Unfortunately Puławski was killed in an air accident in 1931 and the project had to be finished by W.J.Jakimiuk.

The bigZ's question "But why didn't the Poles also employ the PZL 24? "
The answer is quite easy.The plane was almost like P-11 and was still corrected in that time.And what makes the matter worse there were huge problems with supplies of French engines in early 30' to Poland and France didn't want to sell Poland a licence for their engines.What is more Polish industry didn't produce engines of a such powerty.It was a mistake because after 1936 there weren't any problems with the delivery of these engines.
When P-24 was exhibited in Paris in 1934 where attracted foreign Air Forces.Because almost all outlet in the Western Europe was dominated by France and Great Britain, Poland had to find other countries for the plane negotiation.France and GB weren't involved into market in Balkan region so Poland came forward with the offer for these Balkan countries.It gave Polish industry a chance to earn some money and start a new project of a much more modern fighter called P-50 Hawk.


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## 109ROAMING (Oct 9, 2008)

Good info Wojtek!


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## Njaco (Oct 10, 2008)

Nice info, Wurger!


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## antoni (Oct 17, 2008)

Some of the above information is not correct. For example Britain sold Hurricanes and Blenheims to the Rumanians and Hurricanes to Yugoslavia. 

The PZL P.24 represented the ultimate Puławski-wing fighters. Foreign interest exceeded all expectations but a number of potential sales came to nothing for lack of credits and financial backing. It was never ordered by the Lotnictwo Wojskowe, not because they were waiting for the P.50, but because they began to favour the re-equipment of their fighter force with a multipurpose twin-engined, two-seat aircraft, not a dedicated single-seat fighter aircraft. When this decision was later severely criticised the excuse given was that the P.24 was powered by a Gnome-Rhône engine which was not manufactured in Poland and could not be bought in quantity because of a scarcity of foreign currency. This, however, does not stand scrutiny as Poland was given a large armament loan by France and half of it, to be spent in France, remained unused for some time. 


The Politics.

The second comprehensive Polish rearmament plan began to take shape immediately after the death of Marshal Piłsudski in May 1935. The LW’s expansion proposals were evolved by General Rayski in 1935-36, building on the basis of his three year plan of 1933. The command structure had been split in 1926 into two unrelated peacetime and wartime channels and left the LW without a unified command for its direction and control. Rayski prepared his new plan in a vacuum without any knowledge of any specific defence aims for the air arm or any overall strategic concepts. In fact no such aims existed. The Central Staff, composed of army officers, that had no understanding of air warfare, failed to define clear-cut role for the air arm in a future war. While the army chiefs were completely engrossed with producing detailed plans for a war with the Soviet Union, the air arm was being shaped by the hypothesis of war with Germany. 

At that time General Douhet’s prophetic theory proclaimed air power, a new and totally independent component of armed strength, as the decisive weapon in any future war. Douhet emphasised the power of the bomber to which, according to him, there was no defence. Some foreign experts forecast the demises of the single-seat fighter. Probably influenced by Douhet’s views and Germany’s example, Rayski embarked on a vast build-up of Poland’s bomber force. He subordinated all other aviation needs to that objective with catastrophic consequences in the fighter-interceptor field. 

To meet the requirements of the plan, Rayski authorised the construction of prototypes of six new designs, two each – one interim and one principal service model - for bomber, army support and ‘companion’ squadrons. A prototype for a single-seat fighter was conspicuously absent. The main equipment of the army support formations was to be provided by a multipurpose, twin-engined, two-seat, dive-bomber/attack fighter, the P.38 Wilk. This design was fundamental to Rayski’s rearmament proposals, for in addition to the army support role, the P.38 was intended supplement the LW’s bomber potential, provide bombers with fighter protection and contribute to national air defence as a fighter, thereby reducing the need for a conventional single-seat fighter. 
Rayski’s lack of appreciation for a single-seat fighter was reflected by his curious proposal that the sturdy, all metal P.11 should be replaced by the P.39/LWS.4, a cheap, wire-braced, light-weight monoplane of composite construction. Under his plan this aircraft was to remain in frontline service with fighter squadrons until April 1942, and also was to serve as an intermediate fighter trainer. It could not operate at night or winter conditions, its estimated top speed was 380 km/hr (205 mph) and its practical ceiling was limited to only 1,500 m (4,900 ft). The design contrasted sharply with other Polish projects, all technically advanced, and when, in June 1936, Rayski asked the Government for permission to build the P.39/LWS.4 prototypes, he was refused. In the meantime, the specialist PZL fighter team responsible for the P.7, P.11, and P.24 was dissolved and Wsiewołod Jakimiuk, who led the team after the death of Puławski, was entrusted with the design and development of a twin-engined passenger transport, the PZL 44 Wicher.

Rayski’s 1936 plan was not officially endorsed, but served the Central Staff only as the basis for the preparation of their own plan. This was the work of infantry Colonel Jan Jagmin-Sadowski and was ratified at the XVIIth Session of the KSUS (Committee for Armament and Equipment Affairs) on 13th October 1936. The KSUS plan was based on a more conventional tactical concept, which called for new designs for army support and single-seat fighter squadrons and adopted a cautious approach to the new class of P.38 Wilk two-seat fighter squadrons reducing their strength to 100 aircraft. The gap arising from interrupted development of a single-seat fighter to succeed the P.11 proved difficult to close. 

Feasibility studies in the light-fighter field were to be expanded and in addition to some further work on the improved P.39/LWS 4 project, a superior PZL design, the P.45 Sokół, proposed by Kazimierz Korsak, was investigated in detail. Later, two more competitive designs, the PWS 42 and RWD 25 entered the Sokół light-fighter programme and although the future of such an aircraft was not yet decided, all three were awarded prototype contracts.

Jakimiuk, still working on the PZL.44, did not begin design studies for an interceptor-fighter, the P.50 Jastrząb, until the winter of 1936-37. His creation was a modern, all-metal, low-wing monoplane, employing a thin aerofoil-section wing and other advanced aerodynamic features. However, the P.50 specification, drafted to Rayski’s directives, represented a subtle departure from the KSUS requirement, calling for a fast aeroplane, with manoeuvrability taking second place to speed, capable of carrying a 300 Kg (600 lb) bomb. These were the characteristics of the ‘pursuit’ fighter, affording insurance against the looming failure of the P.38 Wilk, rather than those of the classic fighter sought by the KSUS. An ill-matched engine, the Mercury VIII radial with a nominal output of only 730 hp and maximum rating of 840 hp, which was forced upon the designer to save time and money, offered little prospects for the fighter’s success. The P.50 was hastily ordered off the drawing board into mass order production. PZL received an initial order for 150 Mercury VIII powered examples, which was soon increased to 500, with deliveries of the first 50 to commence in September 1939. The P.50/I prototype was to fly in October 1938 but the late delivery of the Dowty landing gear delayed flight tests until February 1939. The P.50/II prototype adapted to take a more powerful radial of up to 1,600 hp stood idle awaiting the delivery a power plant which remained unspecified until June 1939, when a 925-1,145 hp Bristol Taurus was ordered for it. 

At the beginning of July 1936, in a belated move to entrust someone in the GUSZ-controlled ‘wartime’ command channel with specific responsibilities for air defence, the Inspektorat Obrony Powietrznej Państwa (IOPP, Inspectorate of Air Defence of the State) was created, with Gen Orlicaz-Dreszer, a cavalry officer, appointed its head. Killed in a air-crash twelve days later he was succeeded by Gen Józef Zając, an infantry officer. In the autumn of 1937 a miniscule Air Staff was formed at the Central Staff. This was a new body completely, unconnected with Rayski’s Aviation Command in the ‘peacetime’ channel. The two Air Staffs did not even communicate with each other. 

Gen Zając was a novice to aviation but after a few months in office he thought himself qualified to pronounce judgment on intricate questions of operational and equipment policy. Charged with the country’s air defence, he began to promote the view that the top priority should be given to development of a fighter force. He completely rejected the proposed building of the bomber force, maintaining that Poland could not afford twin-engined bombers and did not need such aircraft in general, and the P.37 Łoś in particular. He contended that the bomber capability should be provided by the French or British air forces as and when necessary. He began to voice increasingly strong criticisms of Rayski’s decisions and opposed the ethos of the KSUS plan which bore the hallmark of Rayski’s influence. 

In 1936 Zając unveiled his own plan. This envisaged 102 combat squadrons with 900 warplanes by April 1942; 30 single-seat fighter squadrons (300 aircraft), 15 pursuit fighter squadrons (150 aircraft), 22 army support squadrons (220 aircraft), 20 observation squadrons (140 aircraft), and 15 bomber squadrons (90 aircraft) – a large proportion of the bombers to be provided by French or British units stationed in Poland. This coincided with a deepening equipment crisis. Shortages of the P.11 necessitated the retention of the obsolete P.7 in three squadrons. Worse, in early 1938, the P.11 steel engine frames began to crack due to metal fatigue. At the end of November, 1938, Zając prepared a secret defence report on the LW’s state of readiness that pinpointed the devastating deficiencies in equipment and stressed that apart from bombers; the situation would worsen in 1939 and would not significantly improve before 1941. He warned that in case of war in 1939 or 1940 the LW would not last longer than two to four weeks.


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## antoni (Oct 17, 2008)

Continued ....

On 14th January 1939 Rayski tended his resignation for the third time. It was accepted on 19th March. He was succeeded by Gen Władysław Kalkus as the Aviation Commander – in the ‘peacetime’ channel – whilst Zając was nominated to the post of C.-in-C. of the LW in case of war – in the ‘wartime channel. To bridge the nonsensical isolation of the two channels, which under the existing salutary government and military structures had to remain separated, Kalkus was made personally responsible to Zając. Zając set about a revision of production programmes in line with his own ideas. Purchases from abroad were to ease the equipment crisis. Steps taken in haste to resolve the crises were rather confusing and haphazard and seriously disrupted production schedules of the Polish aviation industry. Zając wanted to halt the production of the P.37 Łoś at 104 aircraft, but since assembly of an additional 20 airframes had already been transferred to the WP 2 at Mielec, giving the new factory its initial work, they were allowed to be completed. PZL’s firm order for 160 P.46 Sum was increased to 300 with the first deliveries expected at the end of 1939. The main production effort of the WP 1 factory,at Okęcie, centred on completion of 42 P.43B reconnaissance bombers ordered by Bulgaria. In March 1939 at the height of the Czechoslovakian crisis, it was briefly intended to retain these for the LW but this decision was soon reversed despite crippling shortages of aircraft in the Karaś squadrons. Amid all this Poland decided to purchase 100 Fairey Battles, aircraft that were generally inferior to the P.43s and less suited to the prevailing operational conditions in Poland. 

In the all important fighter field the situation became equally chaotic. Disappointing results of the Mercury VIII-powered P.50/I prototype trials, which proved the aircraft manifestly underpowered, forced Zając to defer large scale manufacture of the fighter, limiting this to the first 30 examples already on the production line. Production was intended to resume later after improvement of the basic design. As a stop gap measure, limited production of new variants of the P.24 or P.11 was considered. Eventually the P.11g Kobuz which utilized the Mercury VIII radial originally intended for the P.50 was selected. An urgent order for 90 P.11g fighters was placed with the PWS factory, which had hitherto specialized in all-wood structures and had no experience of building all-metal airframes. At the same time a new generation PZL fighter, evolved by Jerzy Dąbrowski around a 1,400 – 1,600 hp Hispano-Suiza 12Z upright-V liquid-cooled engine and believed to be designated P.62, progressed to the mock-up stage. 

Towards the middle of 1939, Poland, disturbed by German high-altitude reconnaissance flights began frantic attempts to secure speedy delivery of foreign fighters. Several American designs were briefly considered with the Curtiss Hawk 75A (P.36) and Seversky EP-1 (P.35) receiving particular attention. A French armament loan and attractive delivery schedules led to the selection of the Morane-Saulnier MS 406 of which 120 were ordered. The first 20 were ready for despatch at the end of August 1939 and the next 50 were to be shipped in two batches by 1st October. Britain agreed to supply 14 Hurricanes and one Spitfire without delay. One Hurricane arrived and Fairey Battles and a Spitfire were on route when war broke out.

Genesis of the P.24.

Under the terms of a ten year license agreement to build Bristol radial engines, no Polish manufactured Bristol engines could be sold abroad and the Bristol Company had the right to investigate any Bristol-powered aircraft even if the engines for them were supplied by the customer. This did not have much appeal to either PZL or a prospective client. PZL began to consider and advanced fighter variant powered by an alternative make of engine, aimed specifically at export markets. Initial proposals for such an aircraft stressed to take radial engines of 700-1000 hp were put forward by Puławski’s successor Wsiewołod Jakimiuk, in February 1932, and the new 700 hp Gnome-Rhône 14Kds radial, the first details of which had just been made available to Poland, was selected as the recommended power plant. Authorisation to proceed with the detailed study for the new model, designated P.24 was given in April. 

Except for the adaptation for a more powerful engine and heavier armament, the P.24 was essentially a refined edition of the P.11 and development of both models was closely co-related. To improve the view over the nose, the engine was lowered and pilot’s seat raised and moved aft, and the wing’s inner sections thinned off, their cut-out deepened and the angle of incidence slightly altered. Parallel modification to the P.11 resulted in the P.11c.

At that time France was engaged in a ambitious programme of fighter development. The resulting ten models employed almost every conceivable configuration for single-seat fighters, all evolved around the Hispano-Suiza 12Xbrs liquid-cooled engine. In addition the French Air Force was considering foreign fighters as possible candidates for licence-manufacture in France and the Polish P.11 was at the top of its list. Gnome-Rhône, developing the new range of powerful 14K Mistral Major radials, was extremely anxious to enter the fighter field, and the PZL fighter presented the firm’s only opportunity Gnome-Rhône approached PZL with proposals concerning the development of 14K-powered version of the P.11, offering to contribute up to 150,000 francs towards the cost, supply a free engine, and sponsor the design in the French fighter contest. Coinciding with the work already commenced by Jakimiuk, the offer was accepted. In June 1932, PZL asked for the 760 hp 14Kds radial to be delivered in December. The detailed design for the P.24 was approved and drawings issued to the prototype workshop for the construction of three airframes to begin in July.

Much of the first P.24 prototypeP.24/I came from the P.7a already in production. Unchanged were the wings, rear fuselage, horizontal stabilisers and elevators, rudder and vertical stabiliser. The P.24/II was fitted with a Gnome-Rhône 14Kfs with a nominal output of 900 hp and maximum of 930 hp. PZL stopped producing the P.7a in 1935 when they moved from Mokotow to Okęcie airfield. For this reason it was decided to adapt parts from the P.11. In the autumn of 1935 work was started on the P.24/III prototype which would become the master pattern for series production. The slightly longer wing of the P.11 was used as well as the tail section. The P.24/III probably got its engine from the P.24/II. In November 1936 it was designated the P.24 Super bis and sent to the Paris Salon. Later it was most likely modified and sold to Bulgaria or Turkey as a series model.


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## Wurger (Oct 20, 2008)

What is the source of these materials Antoni?


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## antoni (Oct 21, 2008)

Mostly the works of Jerzy B Cynk, in particular: 

The Polish Air Force at War 1939-45
Polish Aircraft 1893 to 1939.

Also PZL P.24 A-G Andrzej Glass.


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