# If you were a pilot, how many Kills would you be satisfied with?



## Soundbreaker Welch? (May 6, 2006)

*You can end your career after a day if you want. It's up to you how long you want to stay and fight. It could be untill you decide to go home as a Veteran or until you die in combat as many a good pilot did.*

Remember, the more combat missions you fly, the more likely you will be killed! And the thing is you can end your career when ever you like! So it's likely if you only fight a week, you won't become an Ace. If you fight three years, it may be up to 40 depending on how many battles you fought in.

Of course maybe this poll works better in WWI or WWII. Jets don't make many kills nowadays.

But since this is an imaginary poll setting anyway............You could be flying an F-22 and still go to 100 and beyond after our real world has run out of jets! 



(Ok, ok, I'll quit with the polls.)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 6, 2006)

well how long're our careers? i'd be happy with about 5 or 6 a month


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 6, 2006)

None I just love flying.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 6, 2006)

5


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## Gnomey (May 6, 2006)

To be an ace would be satisfying anything else is just on top, although you would want to be the best (and too stay alive)..


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## lesofprimus (May 6, 2006)

This is kinda a silly poll/question, as it is wwwaaayyyy too generic in terms....

But to be specific, if I were a combat pilot in WWII, I would do my duty for my country and fly as often as the political leadership asked me to... 5 kills and over is all any fighter pilot could ever ask for, so 5+ kills is it for me as well....


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## Wildcat (May 6, 2006)

Well I'm not greedy, so 100 will do me!
Honestly 5+ I consider quite an achievement.


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## plan_D (May 6, 2006)

Being a fighter pilot in World War II, I would do my duty and fly as often as required. I would, however, be happy enough with just surviving the war.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 6, 2006)

chances are i'd rather be in Bomber Command or Coastal Command anyway.........


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## syscom3 (May 6, 2006)

Id be happy with zero kills.


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## cheddar cheese (May 6, 2006)

Personally, thinking as I was now id want 100+ cos im a stubborn little so and so and id want to be the best.

But thinking in hindsight, I agree with D. Happy to just survive.


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## wmaxt (May 6, 2006)

I think I'd like to do the job I was given to my best ability. I protect my bombers/wingmen by shootin down as many as needed to bring my charges and myself home.

On the G/A side I want to destroy as many as possible on the ground or in the air while bringing my charges and myself home. The number of kills is secondary.

A pilot has to be aggressive, observant (85% were bounces that the kill never even saw) and lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time (no bogie's no kills, too many bogie's your the kill).

wmaxt


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## MacArther (May 6, 2006)

I would agree that I would be happy to survive, but on the other side of the spectrum, I would want to excede Bong in terms of number of planes brought down. I don't want to be the top leading ace for all the nations, just the leading ace for America. Yes, I would care about my team mates, and an enemy aircraft that shot one of them down would soon find themselves in a similar situation, except with more holes in the cockpit.


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## plan_D (May 6, 2006)

What makes you so sure you could better your opponent? Let's face it, you'd be blasted out of the sky like 99% of us on here.


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## davparlr (May 6, 2006)

Strange poll. I suspect that, since every enemy represents a threat to your buddy, or someone on your side, I would want to eliminate everyone that opportunity presented. I'd be satified with all of them.


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## Bullockracing (May 6, 2006)

Just enough to be ahead of everyone else in my unit!!!!!


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## timshatz (May 6, 2006)

Decent question. Keep in mind that to make a kill you have to take the chance to get killed. The ability to stomach that realization and still be an effective killer is what makes an ace. 

Plenty of guys (we're talking in the past here, pre-1960) went out, flew their tours and never blew the tape off their guns. Does that make them ineffective- not ace worthy, no, definitely not. They may not've had the opportunity (flying wing, ground attack or in an area where air to air was over- Joe Foss's second tour is a good example). They also may not've been the hard core killer type. And high scoring aces either are or become that type. 

But back to the part where you have to take a chance to get killed to get a kill. Some people can't get past that point. Doesn't make them a coward or any of that, those types are generally weeded out. But guys who make kills tend to be pretty cold blooded. Mannock or McCudden once said that they were hired assassins, nothing more. It would be worth keeping that point in mind.

One last point, the guys who get whacked down are generally the newest and least experienced. The US Air Force did a study and found out that a pilot had something like a 25% chance of being shot down on any of his first five missions (note- odds posted could be as high as 50% but I've had a few beers and the first thing to go is "Mr Memory" so take that part with a grain of salt- Note 2. Odds per mission are not cumlative, 25% per mission on each of the first 5 missions) and thereafter the odds of survival increased (or of getting the chop decreased) to the point of a steady 5% per mission (average on that last one, flying an escort mission to Berlin is going to be a more hazerdous, in general, than one to the Normandy). A good ace/killer is going to quickly figure out how to spot the neophytes and go after them. The experts or hard core are much harder to get. Replacements die in groups, veterans die alone.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (May 7, 2006)

Good post.

Thats why I put the option of zero kills.


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## timshatz (May 8, 2006)

Thanks Bud. 

Reading it now, I'm amazed that I'm that coherent at 9:30 on a Saturday night, kicking around the house with nothing much to do and drinking a few beers. 

After reading about it for years, I'm of the opinion that air combat is something of a combination of an aerial mugging/assasination. Get in quick, slash n' stab, get out. The heavier the firepower, the less time spent firing, the better the chance for a break away. Get them but avoid getting "got" yourself. The less time you spend in the furballl, the better your chances of having a drink in the bar later that night. You can't see everything, hence the need to get in and out quickly. The 75% who get knocked down without seeing the guy who gets them weren't all neophytes. Some of them probably got task saturated and some joker slid up behind them--BAAM!


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## Bf109_g (Oct 14, 2006)

2. I'd probably want to be a Lancaster rear gunner.

James.


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## Glider (Oct 14, 2006)

The minimum required to get the job done and keep my friends safe


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## exec228 (Oct 23, 2006)

plan_D said:


> Being a fighter pilot in World War II, I would do my duty and fly as often as required. I would, however, be happy enough with just surviving the war.


i have the same PoV: i would fly a soviet style, carrying out escort sortees for Il-2, Il-4, Pe-2. not quite a hunter lifestyle, but for me it would be enough to be proud.


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## exec228 (Oct 23, 2006)

p.s. poll is not adequate, and could be one with just one option added: "it's not a factor"


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Oct 23, 2006)

Yeah, that would have been a good option. 


Oh well..


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## Le Stuka (Dec 4, 2006)

100+ to raise morale of your squadron/group. But just surviving war is an achievement.


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## R-2800 (Dec 5, 2006)

100+ becasue as LeStuka said it raises morale of people around you and becasue it would be a great achievement to get so many kills and somehow live to tell about it


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## Erich (Dec 6, 2006)

who cares ?

think about just one thing, surviving day or night after night of aerial warfare and making it till wars end without a mishap tragically.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 6, 2006)

Exactly. I would just do my job and hope to survive. Dont care what I would get.


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## mkloby (Dec 6, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Exactly. I would just do my job and hope to survive. Dont care what I would get.



This is very true. I thought this question was kind of strange to begin with...


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Dec 7, 2006)




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## mkloby (Dec 7, 2006)

Soundbreaker Welch? said:


>



very nice poster


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Dec 7, 2006)

Thanks, but I didn't make it! Our grandpa's and grandma's probably did in sorrow and fury!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 8, 2006)

is a little big though.........


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## mkloby (Dec 8, 2006)

I like this one - it was in one of the wing buildings on base...


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Dec 9, 2006)

It looks pretty cool, but the pilot better not step back!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 9, 2006)

i'm impressed he can stand that close anyway


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## mkloby (Dec 9, 2006)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> i'm impressed he can stand that close anyway



why wouldn't you be able to stand in front of a prop?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 10, 2006)

not only is he standing inces from the propeller but he's doing it without even flinching nor are any of his clothes flapping, the air around the prop from that kinda distance would be doing something to him! i'd say this photo's been photoshopped............


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## Gnomey (Dec 10, 2006)

As it isn't a photo, it has obviously just been missed off by the poster artist...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 10, 2006)

is everyone in scrotland a barrel of laughs like you?


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## Gnomey (Dec 10, 2006)

No, just me...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 10, 2006)

You can stand pretty close to props, Lanc, they dont suck you in or anything. I stood under a really fast moving one for years.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 10, 2006)

yes but surely the low pressure was above the "prop" in your case?


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## mkloby (Dec 10, 2006)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> yes but surely the low pressure was above the "prop" in your case?



You can stand in front of a prop. Besides - it's not a photo, it's a recruiting poster...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 10, 2006)

no kidding sherlock, it was a joke


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## mkloby (Dec 10, 2006)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> no kidding sherlock, it was a joke



I prefer mr. sherlock 8)


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Dec 11, 2006)

Don't worry Mr. Sherlock, I like the poster. It shows the kind of bravery thats needed to join the USAF. Kind of a test for new recruits, ya know?


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## mkloby (Dec 11, 2006)

Soundbreaker Welch? said:


> Don't worry Mr. Sherlock, I like the poster. It shows the kind of bravery thats needed to join the USAF. Kind of a test for new recruits, ya know?



USMC pilots! It's our poster!


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Dec 12, 2006)

How could I forget? OF COURSE! It had to be the USMC! The USAF recruits would never have had the nerve to join up with the USAF if they were tested in the same way as the Few........um......ah......*the Few,*.....ahem....the Brave, and the Proud recruits got tested to join the USMC!!! 



I guess the joke is getting a bit old! LOL! Sorry!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 12, 2006)




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