# The Hunter of Nazis Passess Away



## Pisis (Sep 20, 2005)

*Famed Nazi hunter, Simon Wiesenthal, passed away in Vienna home at age 96.*



> Simon Wiesenthal was one of the lucky few who survived the Nazi death camps of World War II. Unlike many other survivors however, Mr. Wiesenthal did not return to his pre-War profession as an architect, but instead became the world famous Nazi hunter, the conscience and voice for not only the Holocaust's 6,000,000 Jewish victims but for the millions of others who were murdered by the Nazis as well.
> 
> When asked why he chose his unique course, Wiesenthal explains, "When history looks back I want people to know the Nazis weren't able to kill millions of people and get away with it." His work stands as a reminder and a warning for future generations.
> 
> ...



www.jpost.com

*S!*


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## syscom3 (Sep 20, 2005)

He was a constant reminder that some people have a limitless capacity for horrible evil.

While its interesting rto read and speculate about the weapons, tactics and strategy of Germany, we must not foget the horrors they inflicted.


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## evangilder (Sep 20, 2005)

Well said, syscom3. We must never forget.


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 20, 2005)

Yep - he was an inspiration to all!


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## SM79Sparviero (Sep 21, 2005)

> He was a constant reminder that some people have a limitless capacity for horrible evil.
> 
> While its interesting rto read and speculate about the weapons, tactics and strategy of Germany, we must not foget the horrors they inflicted.



In my opinion his message has subtle differences: ALL "normal" people have a POTENTIAL capacity for horrible evil.

Those criminal acts should not be related to all German people , neither all German armed forces and, more, neither all waffen-SS.

It is quite unprobable to see captain Langsdorff , major Rudel or general Galland as aware killers of defenceless people.....


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## syscom3 (Sep 21, 2005)

All people have the capacity for commiting acts of evil. Some people act on them, and Germany seems to have had more than their fair share of them from 1933-1945.

Some members of the German military knew what was going on and refused to have anything to do with it. More than a few though knew what was going on and turned a blind eye. 

Have you read "Hitlers Willing Executioners"?..... good read.


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## Pisis (Sep 21, 2005)

Eliminating Jews, whatever this standed for, was Hitler's official policy and bumped him onto the peak of power in 1933... Thus everything German pre- and from WWII represents the evil.


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## SM79Sparviero (Sep 21, 2005)

> Thus everything German pre- and from WWII represents the evil.



Sorry, but this sentence is a nonsense.
I repeat, not all German people and armed forces were guilty for the crimes to Jewish, neither they created the first anti-jewish persecutions.

I ask: the word "pogrom" has German roots?


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## evangilder (Sep 21, 2005)

While I will admit that the anit-Jewish rhetoric did strike a chord with the common Germans, I don't think a big majority of thhem had any idea what they had in mind. I also truly believe that there were many soldiers, sailors and airmen had no idea of the killing machine that was wiping out Europe's Jews. Sure there were some, but I don't think it was anywhere near a majority.


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## syscom3 (Sep 21, 2005)

Oh they knew. They saw the SS killer squads go into the villages and commit their acts of horror. They wondered why badly needed trains were being diverted to haul jews and others, instead of bringing supplies to the front. The SS turned this genocide into an industry. Tens of thousands knew about it and talked about it.

The "good" german folk at home also knew what was going on in the concentration camps. In 1943, one brave German priest told his congregation that to stay silent in the face of such monstrosities was an abomination. How come he knew and the others didnt?

By the way, Mousillini and Franco (Spain) both told Hitler they were not going to hand over any of their Jewish citizens to the SS. Unfortunatly for the Italians, they couldnt do anything about it.

France on the other hand, was all too willing to hand them over.


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## evangilder (Sep 21, 2005)

So you are saying that every single German knew and were complicit in this?


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## Erich (Sep 21, 2005)

just for your information syscom, many German folk living within the Reich knew nothing of the concentration camps. Landser on the Ost front definately knew very very little as word from home usually compressed the facts about every day life and into 1945 the acts of the so-called terror bombings from the RAF and US. Even after wars end many Landser could not beleive that their govt. regime could devise such an evil as the camps to murder thousands/millions of people.

Friends of mine and familie that lived through the war and acted on Germanys behalf are quite embarassed to the point of lowering their heads when they talk of it..............the propaganda machine though for us hard to believe was that good in war time Germany.

to this day I know at least 4 vets that do not believe that Germany did this and that it is a propaganda ploy of the Allies to disgrace the common German soldier even after 60 years


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## syscom3 (Sep 21, 2005)

Not every German knew about it. Nor did very many Germans commit the war crimes.

But then every German knew what the nazi's felt about jews. It defies explanation that hundreds of thousands of your fellow countryman are deported without anyone wondering where theyre going or whats going to happen to them.

Adolf Eichman himself said that the silence on the part of the German people was tacit agreement that the "final solution" was to continue.

Every soldier who fought in Russia knew what the SS execution (murder is a better word) squads were. They saw them go into villages. They heard the rumours.

Some brave soldiers refused to take part in this madness, and nothing ever was done to them. Too bad the huge majority didnt show some spine and speak up.


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## Erich (Sep 21, 2005)

sorry but I must agree to disagree, you speak in generalities; not ever Landser on the Ost front knew of the SS Kommandos work. Too many Heer soldiers were on the front lines never relieved and fought to the end not having any clue what was done to the civilians in over-run villages and cities


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## evangilder (Sep 21, 2005)

If you look at the number of normal Wehrmacht soldiers during Barbarossa, and then look at the number of SS men, the numbers are going to be way more Wehrmacht. The units of the SS operated in small groups and there were far less than there were regular Army units. There is no way that they ALL saw something.


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## Pisis (Sep 22, 2005)

SM79Sparviero said:


> > Thus everything German pre- and from WWII represents the evil.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, it's not. It's my personal feeling. I trully love German WW2 aircraft, they were on the peak of technique level of that day, but they (and any other 1933-45 German/Nazi military technique) represented the forces of evil, the forces that caused I have only 6 family members instead of 150...

How much the people in Germany knew or didn't know about proceeding the crimes on Jews/Roma/others is discutable. The fact is that antisemitism was Reich's official policy. 

After lost WWI and Versaille, the proud Deutschvolk wanted to point at someone who's guilty for their unhappines. Who was first on eye? Jews! (not for the first time in history - that's why later on the state of Israel was brought to life...). This combined with hysteric, antisemtic and paranoic nature of Hitler and his fellow comrades went out into holocaust....

Of course there were really evil people, there were also brave people, who were hiding "die Untermenschen" but most of them, as allways, were neglectful... 

We cannot generalise, behaviour in situations such as WWII was are purely individual (just to mention admiral Cannaris, who saved some Jews - just consider - Wehrmacht admiral!)

*For me, 1933-1945 WWII Germany is an incarnated evil*


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## plan_D (Sep 22, 2005)

Even those Germans that voted against the Nazi Party? 

Germany was no more evil than any other extremist nation, Germany was just more powerful.


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## Pisis (Sep 22, 2005)

plan_D said:


> Even those Germans that voted against the Nazi Party?
> 
> Germany was no more evil than any other extremist nation, Germany was just more powerful.



I talk about items, not people.

Of course there were really evil people, *there were also brave people*, who were hiding "die Untermenschen" but most of them, as allways, were neglectful...


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## ariel81 (Sep 22, 2005)

most of the germans knew,they saw their jewish neigbours disappear
they are a bunch of savages


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## Erich (Sep 22, 2005)

ariel be more specific please. Not all villages had Jewish content, not ALL GERMANS knew what was going on with the Jews or eastern block populations. this myth of the all knowing German people doing nothing has been created at wars end and will surivive till the end of time.

did you know tha the war did not touch certain parts of Bayern or parts of austria where farming families could only watch Luftwaffe/US a/c combat each other in the skies, they hoping they would not be bombed out by "Terrorfliegern". these families did not have a clue of what was really going on in the interior of the Reich and it's doomsday machine. Only when the war ended and the soviets came into austria and sacked the cities did word reacah remote areas with the Farming communities in some spots going ever higher in the Alpen to escape retritbution .....


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## syscom3 (Sep 22, 2005)

In Kiev, the Nazis murdered approximately 100,000 people in a ravine named Babi Yar. 

......The Germans were counting out only a few people at a time and then letting them move farther on. Machine-gun fire could be heard nearby. For those that realized what was happening and wanted to leave, it was too late. There was a barricade staffed by Germans who were checking identification papers of those wanting out. If the person was Jewish, they were forced to remain. .........

.....Taken from the front of the line in groups of ten, they were led to a corridor, about four or five feet wide, formed by rows of soldiers on each side. The soldiers were holding sticks and would hit the Jews as they went by......

......There was no question of being able to dodge or get away. Brutal blows, immediately drawing blood, descended on their heads, backs and shoulders from left and right. The soldiers kept shouting: "Schnell, schnell!" laughing happily, as if they were watching a circus act; they even found ways of delivering harder blows in the more vulnerable places, the ribs, the stomach and the groin.......

.....Those who hesitated had their clothes ripped off them by force, and were kicked and struck with knuckledusters or clubs by the Germans, who seemed to be drunk with fury in a sort of sadistic rage......

.....Once the Jews were lined up, the Nazis used a machine-gun to shoot them. When shot, they fell into the ravine. Then the next then were brought along the edge and shot........

.....According to the Einsatzgruppe Operational Situation Report No. 101, 33,771 Jews were killed at Babi Yar on September 29 and 30. But this was not the end of the killing at Babi Yar......

....The Nazis next rounded up Gypsies and killed them at Babi Yar. Patients of the Pavlov Psychiatric Hospital were gassed and then dumped into the ravine. Soviet prisoners of war were brought to the ravine and shot. Thousands of other civilians were killed at Babi Yar for trivial reasons, such as a mass shooting in retaliation for just one or two people breaking a Nazi order.....

....The killing continued for months at Babi Yar. It is estimated that 100,000 people were murdered there......

Commiting genocide and murder on a vast scale requires lots of accomplices. To say "I didnt know" is not factual. It should be a warning to all of us what happens when we stay silent in the face of horrors (like Bosnia, Ruwanda, Cambodia).

Note - strange as it seems, the Afrika Corps was never accused of war crimes, even when capturing jewish soldiers. The lack of SS control over Rommel (plus the remoteness from Berlin) meant the army acted in a more proffesional manner.

I myself dont hold any German responsible for what happened when they were to young to do anything. Plus its been 60 years after the fact, and Germany has reearned its right over the years to be a considered a great country.


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 22, 2005)

syscom3 said:


> Germany has reearned its right over the years to be a considered a great country.



Unlike the Japanese


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## syscom3 (Sep 22, 2005)

Japan is another story. What they did in Nanjing was beyond belief.


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## ariel81 (Sep 22, 2005)

sorry,but is very difficult to believe that they didnt knew anithing,they knew,maybe not everithing,but something,for sure


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## plan_D (Sep 22, 2005)

Grouping all of Germany into one pot and calling it (ultimately them evil) makes you no better than they were back then. The only reason Jews (and the other races, religions and cultues) were attacked is because the Nazi regime used the GROUP to identify the MAN. Wrong, wrong, wrong! 

I'm glad we had decent people in the Civilised world invading Germany from the West. If we had those thoughts (ariel and Pisis) all Germany would be destroyed, and all those people dead. Who's the evil then, huh?

And 4 million Germans voted AGAINST the Nazi Party. That's 4 million that you would have killed because "Germans were evil."


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## ariel81 (Sep 22, 2005)

sorry,but what happened with those 4 million??because i never saw anione protesthing against the nazis


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## Erich (Sep 22, 2005)

were you there in the 1930's till wars end in May of 45 ? Doubt it seriously.

not to offend but again you take the typical Jewish look that all of the German population whether in service, or on the home front is guilty..........have heard all my past 50 years plus. 

this thread needs to be locked


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## ariel81 (Sep 22, 2005)

y dont mean guilty,but certainly not inocent


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 23, 2005)

ariel81 said:


> most of the germans knew,they saw their jewish neigbours disappear
> they are a bunch of savages



You know what ariel you can kiss my ass. Yes I said it and you know what I dont like you! Not because you are Isreali or because you are Jewish, but because you mean nothing to me. Thats right I said it. I am of German nationality. I am not a savage. My Grandfather was a Major in the Wehrmacht who fought in France and Russia getting captured in Stalingrad. You know what he is not a Savage! Never has been, never was, and was not when he went to his grave. May he rest in piece. My mother is Grandmother worked for the German Red Cross before and during the War. She is not a Savage, never has been, never was, and will not be the day she dies. My mother is German. She is not a Savage. My aunt is a German, she is not a Savage. The average German people are no better than the Isleali and Palestinian "Savages"! 

I understand where your hate comes from and I have deep sympathy for the Jewish people. The Holocaust was wrong and should never be forgotten but you are very wrong in your assessment of the German people and you are barking up the wrong fucking tree! You want to see Savages Ill show you Savages. Come with me to Iraq and I will show you Savages cutting heads off of people. You want to see Savages look in you own backyard. Isreali and Palestinian extremists killing innocent woman and children are Savages. Yes I said Isreali extremists, they are no better than the Palestinian extremists. You really have problems aerial.

Yes there were very evil Germans before and during WW2 but you can not put them all in the same boat. The vast majority were not bad or evil and you can not blame the German people from today. I had nothing to do with it, my mother had nothing to do with and neither does anyone born after 1945. Hell actually no one born after 1939 really because a 5 year old was innocent.

Think before you speak please or take your attitude some place else and post some place else.

*Now on another note, I give my deapest sympthies to Wiesenthal. He was an inspiration to all and it is a grave loss to the free world. Shall we never forget the Holocaust.*


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 23, 2005)

ariel81 said:


> y dont mean guilty,but certainly not inocent



Not all Germans were bad, as a matter of fact most were not. You are very wrong in your assumptions. The German people today have nothing to do with the Holocaust and should not be blamed for it. I do not banish the German people for it and neither does most of the people here on this site and that is what makes them better than you.


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## Pisis (Sep 23, 2005)

plan_D said:


> Grouping all of Germany into one pot and calling it (ultimately them evil) makes you no better than they were back then. The only reason Jews (and the other races, religions and cultues) were attacked is because the Nazi regime used the GROUP to identify the MAN. Wrong, wrong, wrong!
> 
> I'm glad we had decent people in the Civilised world invading Germany from the West. If we had those thoughts (ariel and Pisis) all Germany would be destroyed, and all those people dead. Who's the evil then, huh?
> 
> And 4 million Germans voted AGAINST the Nazi Party. That's 4 million that you would have killed because "Germans were evil."



Jesus christ, we're again on the same spot........ I don't say *ALL* of them, I'm the last to be generalising! Sheeeesh..........

I must repeat, and please, plan_D, read it *properly!*, that most of thge people, they were at least *neglectful*, the major rest were criminals and the tiny rest were those heros, such as hiders and underground fighters/antifascists.

Of course Wehrmnacht soldiers were just called to the Army, they weren't guilty for what happened but they were/are responsible for their indvidual acts there on the front, might these be bad, neutral or good.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 23, 2005)

Pisis said:


> plan_D said:
> 
> 
> > Grouping all of Germany into one pot and calling it (ultimately them evil) makes you no better than they were back then. The only reason Jews (and the other races, religions and cultues) were attacked is because the Nazi regime used the GROUP to identify the MAN. Wrong, wrong, wrong!
> ...



I will agree that those that new which were more than just a few were neglectful. However to be honest I would have been too. Yes the Holocaust was wrong but those that spoke out against it were put to death. The German people were controled by fear.


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## Pisis (Sep 23, 2005)

Sure.... They elected Hitler cause he gave them food, when they starved, he gave them work when they were unemployed... But the fact still is that this whole was based on pepared agression. 

Q: Why did they got work?
A: Hitler employed them in military factories.
Q: Why in such there?
A: To prepare the forces of evil to rule the world....

I don't balme any nation in general... In fact, Wiesenthal's motto was: Justice, not revenge.


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## kiwimac (Sep 23, 2005)

Let's try to be polite to one another Chaps.

Kiwimac


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## ariel81 (Sep 23, 2005)

sorry,but if millions wil doo a revolt,he cant kill them all
and your grandfather in the wermchat means nothing for me,y have relatives who died for your disagusting country ass well,and we lived in germany for hundreds of years
and i also can become,if y want ,a german citizen,y only have to go to the nearest german embassy


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## evangilder (Sep 23, 2005)

Enough.


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