# Bf 110G-2 'Pulk-Zerstörer'....



## Lucky13 (Sep 24, 2009)

Found two (just noticed a third) interesting pics in the Bf 110 Zerstörer Vol 2 book of two Pulk-Zerstörer '110's. 






37mm cannon, four MG's and a single W. Gr. Mortar under each wing...





Same 37mm cannon, but two MG 151/20 instead for the four smaller MG's, also with a single W. Gr. Mortar under
each wing....heavy punch this one me think!  Have no idea as to which Geschwader any of the two belong to....


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## GrauGeist (Sep 24, 2009)

Not a very common sight, that combination...

The quality of the photos are sort of frustrating...it'll make a unit I.D. pretty difficult


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## Lucky13 (Sep 24, 2009)

True mate!


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## Erich (Sep 24, 2009)

ZG 76

you own me a good German Bier.

ZG 26, 76 and 1 experimented with different cannon and rocket setups to find the perfect match, they never did.........

the 3.7cm was very short term as it vibrated so bad and was not accurate enough even at long ranges where the B-17/B-24 return fire could not hit them. You can well imagine the flying characteristics with this overblown thing under the fuselage and then when it fired.

I have pics galore now to find and post them.

the first pic is the designcfirst used finding the 4 mg 17's did not have the range nor the punch to tear apart the US heavies, probably in the fall of 1943 where the second pic could of been late fall winter even into very early spring but usually the 3.7cm was removed by then replaced either by four 2cm in the nose or 3cm above (rare) and 2cm below and the addition (quite common and favored) of the small weapons package of two 2cm in a waffen pod under the belly

am assuming this is the intro to your G-2 bomber killer model ??


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## Erich (Sep 24, 2009)

a couple pics for everyone's pleasure from ZG 76, note the wide yellow Reich Rumpfbnad


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## Erich (Sep 24, 2009)

can't remember if this is another ZG 76 crate through a bad filter or one from II./ZG 1






nope it's from ZG 76 and it is yellow band note the code : M 8


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## Airframes (Sep 24, 2009)

Great info and pics Erich, as always!


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## Lucky13 (Sep 24, 2009)

Erich said:


> ZG 76
> 
> *you own me a good German Bier.*
> 
> ...



A good German bier.....? I'll get you a whole crate mate! 

Indeed it is Erich. Since looking for info and decide which crate or pilot to use as a subject, is half the fun...

Thank you ever so much my friend!


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## lesofprimus (Sep 24, 2009)

Great stuff Erich as always...


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## Erich (Sep 24, 2009)

cool glad you guys are enjoying some old fotos.........

anyone able to enlarge this one for this thread, some interesting notataions on it.


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## Micdrow (Sep 24, 2009)

Great stuff here guys, Jan you may find this interesting also.


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## Erich (Sep 24, 2009)

ok two more for today guys till I find the rest of the stash which is hidden is some dark funny corner

going casual a Bf 110G-2 crew of ZG 26, note narrow white Rumpfband






and one of my fav's been used in many books. circa: December 43-January 1944. a staffel of G-2's from II./ZG 1 on the hunt for 15th AF heavies over the Alpen






note : 2Z + BP was shot down on a later sortie in combat, though the band looks yellow it is dirty white in part to the overspray of the light grey for winter use


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## Micdrow (Sep 24, 2009)

This link might be of some interest to a few also.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/other-mechanical-systems-tech/bf-110-manuals-12902.html


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## Erich (Sep 24, 2009)

if anyone can find the following, blue covers with black horizontal stripe Bf 110G-2 Flugzeug-handbuch

d.(LUFT) T. 2110 G-2, Teil 8 A Scußwaffenanlage ( März 1943)

ausgabe April 1943

this is a must have for all the G-2 enthusiaists

yes all in German but still, I also have an 8 page introductory segment all in English with breif descriptions on the details of the arms systems used. 

now the nice booklet may be on the net somewhere, Micdrow may have found the spot already. .............. .


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## Erich (Sep 24, 2009)

a little background on an unknown air battle with II./ZG 1 in participation done up by friend P. Kassak as resercher

456th Bomb Group Association: Miller / Hightshoe Crash


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## Micdrow (Sep 24, 2009)

Found this picture that was bigger Erich, I think its the same one you posted.


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## Micdrow (Sep 24, 2009)

Couple of more I found.


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## Micdrow (Sep 24, 2009)

Couple more


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## lesofprimus (Sep 24, 2009)

Frickin nice pics fellas, makin me want to build one now, but like Jan, I would want to do one with the 3.7cm installed, even if it didnt see much usage....

Gotta love that cannon and that last pic Paul posted....


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## Erich (Sep 24, 2009)

yes good job P on the pics !

1st and 3rd images are the same ZG 76 crate M 8 + EM

2nd image shows the standard four 2cm fit. the upper nose had the twin ports with aerodynamic covers in place.

a Nf testing the underbelly twin waffen pod which really pulled off the speed almost to the point with the big heavy antlers and radar inerts that it was hard to catch BC 4 engine bombers.

D ~ not sure if the 1/48th scale crate comes with the Flak 3.7cm or not ?? Jan would have to fill us in.


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## Micdrow (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks guys, I think I have some more floating around in different books. Will see what else I can come up with.


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## Micdrow (Sep 24, 2009)

Here are a couple more


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## Erich (Sep 24, 2009)

paul I postd the first one earl;ier, but thanks for the enlarged pic of the ZG 26 crate.

2nd pic is of the experimental use with ZG 76, note the halfed spinner which was early in the Reich defense. by gruppe and then by staffel ZG 76 110's went for the 2-3 colour spinner ad also continued this for some time on their Me 410's later


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## Micdrow (Sep 24, 2009)

Erich said:


> paul I postd the first one earl;ier, but thanks for the enlarged pic of the ZG 26 crate.
> 
> 2nd pic is of the experimental use with ZG 76, note the halfed spinner which was early in the Reich defense. by gruppe and then by staffel ZG 76 110's went for the 2-3 colour spinner ad also continued this for some time on their Me 410's later



whoops yeah your right Erich,  getting tired as 3:00 am was along time ago though I got to say the picture does look good enough to frame.


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## beaupower32 (Sep 24, 2009)

ZG26 Bf-110 G-2s at Bad Lippspringe in late 1943. Underwing fuel tanks are fitted to the aircraft, and 'White 5' has the MG 151/20 belly cannon pack fitted.




Two views of a Bf-110G-2 'Yellow 1' of an unidentified unit having its compass calibrated. Supplementary fuel tanks are fitted under the wings and the twin MG 151/20 ventral pack is fitted. A wide white band is carried on the rear fuselage, and the fuselage cross does not have any thin black outline to it


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## Erich (Sep 24, 2009)

flak 18 3,7cm mount already posted is not from ZG 26

wide white band may not be ZG 26 at all with the numbers as the 3U code is not present on the bands. this could very well be a very special stafeln or even from ZG 101 which also flew anti-bomber ops, though most were the trainer training the trainee

beua the top pics are from what book ? have seen a couple of them in the past. did another serch through the base I. and III. gruppen in December 43 through February used coloured numbers. oh heavens I could be wrong imagine that. am looking for positive ID though that ZG 26 used a wide white band though, in fact we know they used a narrow one

more hunting, the thread is great

thank you

E ~


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## 109ROAMING (Sep 24, 2009)

Beaut shots guys 8) inspirational


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## GrauGeist (Sep 25, 2009)

Really good info guys!

I dug through my stuff, but the only thing I've come up with so far, is a detail image of the BK37 itself...


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## Airframes (Sep 25, 2009)

Great pics and info guys. I'll see if I can add anything when I find the time!


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## Erich (Sep 25, 2009)

thought I would throw this in here for you guys : first use of the WGr's for the Bf 110G-2.

Die erste Bf 110G-2 mit Rüstatz (MS) 2 x 2 WGr. wird ausgeliefert. : 15. 08. 43


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## GrauGeist (Sep 25, 2009)

Here's something I've wondered about regarding the BK37...was it hard-mounted to the frame, or were there shock-dampening fasteners (like rubber bushings) to take some of the recoil out of the weapon's discharge?


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## Lucky13 (Sep 26, 2009)

Another pic from the same book....


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## Lucky13 (Sep 26, 2009)

The 37mm cannon is in the G-2 kit, as well as the twin belly mounted MG151/20's.... 8)

Even though the barrel isn't bad, I might change it though...


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## Lucky13 (Sep 26, 2009)

Found these....unfortunately I read German.  But the '110 is mentioned! 8)

4850
_dt. MG. 151/20 mit Mündungsfeuerdämpfer trichterförmig für dt. Nachtjäger,in Messing gedreht, Mündung hohl für Ju 88, Do. 217, Me110_

4851
_dt, 3,7 cm Flugzeug Bordkanone für Panzerjäger Ju 87 G, Ju 88 und Me 110 überschwerer Bomber Pulk Aufbrecher-Zerstörer Messing dreh,b,fr. Rohr, Mündungstrichter vorne hohl,am Ansatz der Mündungsbremse durchsichtige Rauchabgasschlitze._

4852
_dt. 3,7 cm Flugz. Bordkanone Messing bohr dr, fr. Rohr Mündungstr. hohl und Schlitze mit Epoxid Bodenwanne für Me. 110 Pulkzerstörer._ 

4853
_3 cm Bordkanone MK103 Messing bohr, fr. dr. Rohr Mündung vorne hohl, 7seitliche Rauchabgasschlitze, durchsichtig, für Umrüstung Me 110 Revell/Monogramm und Hasegawa HS.129 und FW. 190 A_ 

4854
siehe 4853- 3 cm MK 103 mit Epoxid Tragflächen Verkleidung-Gondel Verlängerung in Epoxid für Tamiya Do. 335 linke und rechte Tragfläche .

4855
dt. 50 mm. Flugzeugbordkanone BK. 5 in Messing gedreht, Rohr mit integrierter Mündungsbr. in einem Teil, Mündung vorne hohl, 50 Rauchabgaslöchern an zwei gegenüberliegenden Seiten für Revell/Monogramm Me410 und Revell/DRAGON Me 262A-1a/U4

4856
dt. 50 mm. Munition für BK 5, 7 komplett und 7 verschossene Kartuschen u.KWK 39

4857
dt. 75 mm. Flugzeugbordkanone BK 7,5 cm als Zurüstteil für Hasegawa HS 129 in Messing gedreht b,fr., 132 Rauchabgaslöcher in Mündungsbremse und hohle Mündung. Ebenfalls für Ju 88P 1

4858
dt. 75 mm. Munition für BK 7,5 -Dioramen

4859
dt. Flugzeugbordkanone 50 mm. Pak 39-KWK 39 f. Ju 88 P 4 in Messing gedreh ,Rohr mit integrierter Mündungsbremse in einem Teil. Rohr vorne hohl und große seitliche Rauchabgaskammern.

4860
_ 21 cm Werfer Rohre-Dödel, f. Me. 109, 110, 262, 41o FW. 19o-Messing Dreht. hohl_ 

4861
21 cm Werfer Granaten für siehe 4860 in Messing Drehteil

4862
21 cm BR.Gerät Werfer Drehling f.ME 410,dünnwand.Rohren und Granaten,geätz.Verb.Pl.

4863
dt. Basis Nachtjagdgerät Lichtenstein SN. 220, 4 Haltearme, 8 Dipol Antenne gedreht, ab Mitte nach unten, und oben je drei-fach gestuft, zum seitlichen anstecken.

4864
dt. Bombenschlitten zum ziehen mit SC. 1.000 "Hermann" Bombe

4865
dt. 15 cm Werfer Rohre dünnwandig hohl gedreht für Ungarische Me 410

4866
dt. 15 cm Werfer Granaten gedreht für Ungarische Me 410

4867
40 mm Bofors Kanone für Ungarische Me 410

4868
BK 7,5 Messing Rohr mit Resin Wanne Waffenverkleidung für Revell HS 129

4869
BK 5 mit geänderter Resin Bodenwanne für ME 410B2-U4

4870
Düsenkanone 88 mm für Revell und Dragon Ju 88/A4 Resin/Epoxid Wanne und Messing Rohre

4871
Umbausatz Me 262, verdickter Resin Bug mit gedrehter BK 5 für Revell-Dragon u. Tamija


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## Lucky13 (Sep 26, 2009)

Did Hptm Egon Albrecht from ZG1 fly the G-2? See that he has 6 B-24's to his credit.

_22.2.1944 12:50 B-24 Stab II./ZG 1 S Pilsen 
23.2.1944 12:02 B-24 Stab II./ZG 1 S Wels 
25.2.1944 13:11 B-24 Stab II./ZG 1 40km NNW Brück 
12.4.1944 12:13 B-24 Stab II./ZG 1 E Wiener Neustadt 
26.6.1944 9:32 B-24 Stab II./ZG 1 NW Pressburg 
26.6.1944 9:52 B-24 Stab II./ZG 1 Stockerau _

If so, was it a "standard" G-2 or a Pulk-Zerstörer?


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## Erich (Sep 26, 2009)

what do you mean G-2 or pulk Zerst. ?

if armed with heavy cannons and rockets of course, what he had for arms in each case might be one of question. did he fly the same 110G-2 each op ?, hard to say.

from looking at the file on II./ZG 1 he and his crew were not shot down in combat.

E ~


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## Lucky13 (Sep 27, 2009)

Was thinking one thing there Erich and wrote something completely different...

Thanks!


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## Lucky13 (Sep 27, 2009)

Found a few interesting '110's, not all of them G-2's, some only marked down as a '110. Could Holzmann and Uhlig possibly have flown G-2's?

*Lt Richard Heller, 9/ZG-26 (8/40), III/ZG-76 (2/41), 8/ZG-26 (11/41), Stfkpt 2/JGr-10 (4/45) Bf 110C, Bf 110E-2 Wk# 4431(lost 9/43), Bf 110G-2 Wk# 6371 (lost 10/43).*

_KIA 5 April, 1945 hit by flak during a low level attack near Wülferinge/Harz. Injured in a crash at Gobi in Werk # 4431 on 27 September, 1943. Injured a 2nd time in Wk# 6371 on 9 October, 1943, crashing at Kiel after aerial combat. 5 victories in the Desert, 17 in the West. His first known victory, a Spitfire during the Battle of Britain, on 26 August, 1940. A 2nd, a Spitfire on 31 August, 1940, no location. A 3rd, a Spitfire over England on 26 September, 1940. In the desert on 15 July, 1941, Hptm Müncheberg came to his rescue, downing a Hurricane of RAF No. 73 Sq., which had latched onto his tail. His RK was awarded mainly for his escot work for Ju 87's, especially during July, 1941, when he downed three Hurricanes, and no Ju 87's were lost. He and gunner Uffz Mühlbrodt was shot down by a P-40 on 24 November, 1941. Heller was wounded in the left hand. Shot down with wounds in Werk # 6371, 9 October, 1943, opposing U.S. bombers during the Münster raid. This same day, he managed to down 3 B-17's in the Kielerförde/Schauberg area. A P-38 45 km SE of Livuk on 10 May, 1944._


*Uffz Josef Holzmann, 1/ZG-1 (10/43), 1/ZG-26 (12/43) Bf 110. *

_One known victory, a B-17 20 km SW of Osnabrück on 10 October, 1943. A 2nd B-17, same day, 2 km N of Vassen, by Apeldoorn. A 3rd, a B-24 at Bolsward on 22 December, 1943. A 4th, a B-17 at Steinhuder on 10 February, 1944. A 5th, a B-24 N of Nidda-Bad Soden on 24 February, 1944. A 6th, a B-24 SW of Fulda on 24 February, 1944. A 7th, a B-24 "PS-4" on 12 May, 1944, no location._


*Ofw Hans Raab, 2/ZG-1 (5/43 S.U.), 2/ZG-26 (5/44) Bf 110G-2.*

_One known Soviet victory, a LaGG-3 on 10 May, 1943. Two known western victories, both B-17's, one at Hümmling Polder, the other by Burgsteinfurt, on 10 October, 1943. A 3rd, a B-24 in the Kammin area on 29 May, 1944._


*Ofw Lothar Uhlig, 4 6/ZG-1 (2/44) Bf 110.*

_One known victory, a B-24 SE of Pilsen (Bohemia) on 22 February, 1944. A 2nd, a B-24 at Sarborgard on 13 April, 1944. A Boston III on 24 April, 1944. A 4th, a Boston III on 11 May, 1944. A 5th, another Boston III on 12 May, 1944. A 6th, a P-38 at Bad Voslau on 24 May, 1944. A 7th, a B-24 SE of St. Pölten on 29 May, 1944._


*Josef Kociok, III/ZG-76, II/SKG-210, 4/ZG-1 (7/42 S.U.), 10(Nacht)/ZG-1 (2/43 S.U.), 5/NJG-200 (9/43 S.U.) Bf 110G-2 Werk # 6392 (lost 9/43).*

_KIA 26 September, 1943 near Kertsch, when he collided with a crashing Russian AC, and his parachute failed to open. His R/O, Alexander Wegerhoff survived by parachuting. In addition to his aerial victories, he was credited with another 15 AC on the ground, 4 tanks and 200 vehicles. All victories in the East, 21 were Night victories. His first known victory, a Soviet Seversky on 8 July, 1942, a Fw at the time. A 2nd, an I-18 on 25 February, 1943. A 3rd 4th, an MBR-2 and a DB-3 N of Kortsch on 12 March, 1943. Nos 5 6, An SB-2 and a Yak-4 the night of 26-27 April, 1943. Three PS-84's and an SB-2 the night of 15-16 May, 1943. Two Soviet Boston's the night of 16-17 June, 1943. A PS-84 SE of Taman on 1 July, 1943. An R-5 at Krimskaya on the night of 27-28 July, 1943. Three R-5's in the Krimskaya area on the night of 31 July, 1943. Two Bostons and an I-18 on 17 September, 1943. An I-18 on 18 September, 1943. An MBR-2 in the Nevel area on 26 September, 1943, the day he was KIA. Buried in the cemetery at Kertsch._


Not a G-2 but still,

*Fw Josef Scherkenbeck, 9/ZG-26 (5/43) Bf 110C.*

_WIA 7 July, 1942 when he was hit by ground fire during a ground attack near Fuka. He made a successful force landing. Another Bf 110 landed alongside, and picked up the crew. One known Desert victory, a P-38 on 5 April, 1943. His 2nd, a Spitfire on 17 April, 1943. His 3rd victory, during the Sicilian campaign, a B-24 on 17 July, 1943. His 4th, a Spitfire on 28 July, 1943. A 5th 6th, both B-17's on 9 October, 1943. A 7th, a B-17 on 14 October, 1943. An 8th, a B-17 on 26 November, 1943. A 9th 10th, both B-17's on 29 November, 1943. An 11th 12th, both B-17's on 11 December, 1943._


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## Erich (Sep 27, 2009)

both pilots flew G-2's.

rule of thumb for all anything flow as to Bf 110 variants from late September 43 onward was a G-2, 9/10ths of which were equipped with dual WGr's under each wing. as to forward firing 2cm and 3cm that is speculation as to what was preferred or used ovre the weeks/month(s) time. II./ZG 26 was the first to be equipped with the Me 410A in October 1943.


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## Lucky13 (Sep 27, 2009)

Very much appreciated Erich, as always!  Another thing regarding the MG 151/20 and the Bk 3,7 cm armament when and which crate used it.... If you don't have a photo of the specific aircraft, only the code, maybe it's safest to assume that they had the two nose mounted MG FF's, the four MG 17's, belly mounted MG 151/20's and two _or_ four wing mounted W.Gr?

I do hope that I don't take too much of your time Erich (and others), I apologise if so!


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## Erich (Sep 27, 2009)

remember Jan this is all field mount by the ground crews. wrk nummer even in accordance with issuance means nothing when the G-2 is equipped with cannon(s). the four mg 17's in the upper nose were first used then removed and a remodelled nose section if you will to house the 3cm, later removed and fared over openings-taped at times, and the lower 2cm retained. even with the daylight hours there was some forward flash from the upper cannons and debris flying the the crews faces, the lower ones retained and the waffen pod of two 2cm cannon was kept and used as the standard.

does this make sense ?


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## B-17engineer (Sep 27, 2009)

Why would you be apologizing for taking time! Were on the forum for a reason, learn, help and build models!


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## Micdrow (Sep 27, 2009)

B-17engineer said:


> Why would you be apologizing for taking time!



Thats a hard question to answer Harrison but as you get older you will understand his statement more if you stay interested in aviation through time. Ive spent 30 years off and on researching history of WWII. I consider Erich an Expert and me a beginner if you compare us two. His knowledge on the Luftwaffe is great in my option and when he talks and you listen you usually learn something new.


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## Maximowitz (Sep 27, 2009)

^^^^ Agreed.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 27, 2009)

Yep 100% , your not a beginner though Paul


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## Micdrow (Sep 27, 2009)

B-17engineer said:


> Yep 100% , your not a beginner though Paul



I will always consider myself a beginner because I do not specialize in any topic though I may change that to North Africa and MTO as that is the area Im collecting info on in a private archive that when I get some time will start reading if I put the time and patients into it. Till then Im happy to jump from one subject to another.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 27, 2009)

Me too, I like reading about anything in WWII. I don't like to read one certain things, rather many things.


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## Micdrow (Sep 27, 2009)

B-17engineer said:


> Me too, I like reading about anything in WWII. I don't like to read one certain things, rather many things.



You will get to a point where you will have to narrow down to where and what you read. 

Ive gotten to a point where I wished Ive started earlier on a specific campainge area or topic because when you do start in depth research it makes it harder because I was so general when I started buying books. Thats just me personally though.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 27, 2009)

I feel the same way, but with modeling,  I wish I started a little earlier so I could've used my money more wisely


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## Maximowitz (Sep 27, 2009)

Micdrow said:


> You will get to a point where you will have to narrow down to where and what you read.
> 
> Ive gotten to a point where I wished Ive started earlier on a specific campainge area or topic because when you do start in depth research it makes it harder because I was so general when I started buying books. Thats just me personally though.




Agreed. I find it better to focus on one particular part of WWII than try to be "Jack of all trades."


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## Lucky13 (Sep 27, 2009)

That's me fellas, Jack of all trades, King of none... 

Erich, I know what you mean my friend... I think in time, if money allowes it, I'd like to do a G-2 with the Bk 3,7 and the MG 151/20 and one with the MG FF's, MG 17's and the belly mounted MG 151/20's... Just to figure out which one to do first! 

I must admit that I've kept going back to Lt Richard Heller and his G-2 Wk. Nr. 6371 and the mission he flew on 9 October '43, even though he was shot down, he managed to down three B-17's....


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## Erich (Sep 27, 2009)

Jan did Heller shoot 3 down that is the question. probabaly confirmed one for certain if thi is the Münster raid then all hell broke loose for both sides. I have book just on this raid written years ago, too much blood spilt for a fact.

personally will just give you my vibe on the model and I am not a modeller as I do not ahve the patience anymore, but...........I would do your standar G-2 run-up in any of the 3 ZG's we have mentioned most likely ZG 26 before ther change over to the Me 410A and or II./ZG 1.

thus you have this crate with twin WGR's under each wing, the kit should have them yes ? and then delete the upper cannons but have the lower 2cm's in port bottom. then add the waffenpod under the belly with the twin 2cm cannon. this simple but very effective weapons system worked until P-47's and later the 354th fg with P-51 came into the fray in December 43 onward and messed up the 110G-2's many times while they were still in formation and not even in an attack mode to jump the US bombers from the side or rear.

you of course have the option it is your kit. by the way I have gun cam from a 110 with the 3.7cm firing on the rear of two B-24's way out in the distance as well as films of rockets being fired at B-17's. Lucky for the Us chaps the rockets just made pretty ugly black bursts without hitting anything in that case.

E `


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## Lucky13 (Sep 27, 2009)

Can do any of the options, well, except the upper nose mounted 151/20's. Other than that I can do the crate as you suggest.

Think that we'll do a '110 from that particular raid then. 8)

Thanks a bunch Erich!


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## Erich (Sep 27, 2009)

my pleasure Jan ~

now to find more of my long lost pics ........


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## Lucky13 (Sep 28, 2009)

Thanks Erich, much obliged!
Here's the difference between the Revell/Monogram and Eduard G-2's. Both have two different upper noses, 
with R/M having mounted guns or faired over, while Eduard has with or without, is it the gun camera?
They both also differ in the style of the belly mounted 151/20 gunpod, which is rather confusing, which is correct, 
or are they both right?


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## Airframes (Sep 28, 2009)

Do you mean that rectangular 'hole' in the centre of the nose cone? If so, then as far as I remember, it's an intake for the ..? B*ll*cks, I've forgotten what it's an intake for!
As for the different configurations, I'm guessing it's a case of which aircraft is being modelled; some had the gun ports faired over, later production, without the guns, had a 'plain' nose, and so on.


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## Erich (Sep 28, 2009)

it is the air intake

neither pod is 100 % right on the monies though the first is more so. maybe Micdrow has the pdf handy to show the pod ?


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## Lucky13 (Sep 28, 2009)

Airframes said:


> Do you mean that rectangular 'hole' in the centre of the nose cone? If so, then as far as I remember, it's an intake for the ..? B*ll*cks, I've forgotten what it's an intake for!
> As for the different configurations, I'm guessing it's a case of which aircraft is being modelled; some had the gun ports faired over, later production, without the guns, had a 'plain' nose, and so on.





Erich said:


> it is the air intake
> 
> neither pod is 100 % right on the monies though the first is more so. maybe Micdrow has the pdf handy to show the pod ?



Gun camera.....!? Boy do I feel 



Makes you wonder how many '110's it is preserved with the gunpod, even more so, different ones....or just the pods.


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## Micdrow (Sep 28, 2009)

Erich said:


> it is the air intake
> 
> neither pod is 100 % right on the monies though the first is more so. maybe Micdrow has the pdf handy to show the pod ?



Try these, will see if I have some better pictures. To me it looks like the last one fits the bill.


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## Micdrow (Sep 28, 2009)

Or if you prefer they came out of this manaul.


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## Lucky13 (Sep 30, 2009)

Great stuff Bud! Here's another pic from the same book, just noticed it!


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## Micdrow (Sep 30, 2009)

Lucky13 said:


> Great stuff Bud! Here's another pic from the same book, just noticed it!



Interesting as that one at least from what I can tell from the picture looks different from the one's I posted.


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## Micdrow (Sep 30, 2009)

Jan, I just stumbled on to this crate that you might find interesting.


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## Erich (Sep 30, 2009)

used in late 1943 on a limited basis, too much wieght with the radar antlers


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## Micdrow (Sep 30, 2009)

Erich said:


> used in late 1943 on a limited basis, too much wieght with the radar antlers



Im just curious Erich, any idea on how much weight it added to the aircraft.


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## Erich (Sep 30, 2009)

well you have the weight of the carrier and it's fittings that are hinged for one. two more 2cm cannon plus the ammo belts

yeah that about sums it up...............too much

P ~ am not sure but it sure slowed the a/c down; it was bad enought with twin antler sets being carried and a thrid crew emember plus SM installation and it's ammo. what a pig to be easily shot down during the minimal day ops the 110G units flew in fall of 43 into early spring of 44.

............ auch du a fat sow !


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## beaupower32 (Oct 2, 2009)

One more for ya!


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## Erich (Oct 2, 2009)

same crate as the first one at the top of the page Beau. I have several pics of this bird as well from Fall of 1943


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## Lucky13 (Oct 2, 2009)

Extra tanks and no rocket pods.....hmmmm.


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## Erich (Oct 2, 2009)

extra fuel tanks were common on most long range ops that all 3 ZG's performed. rocket launchers were not always fitted either, pure experimentation in 1943 till it was settled on the standard fit, but as we have discussed and the same goes for the Me 410A/B crews they were sitting ducks to Allied escorts 

like mentioned I have several actually about a dozen pics of early II./ZG 1 birds with long barrels in the nose, and NO rocket mortar fittings. probably so the ZG 1 birds could get in close with the forward 6 2cm weapons..........sounds a bit suicidal.

E ~


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## Lucky13 (Oct 2, 2009)

How much do we know about the Münster raid? Think that the '110 will be made as one of the opposing machines during that air battle....


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## Erich (Oct 2, 2009)

quite a bit Jan, we know LW and US losses and even kills.

you are looking at ZG 26 Stab or III./ZG 26 > 7, 8 or 9th staffels


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## Lucky13 (Oct 2, 2009)

Excellent! 

That's quite a few I have to say Erich! Any suggestions?

Once again, thank you very much!


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## Lucky13 (Oct 3, 2009)

Just wondering what the target(s) were 11th January '44, it's mentioned that 58 B-17's and 2 B-24's were shot down on that date....


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## Erich (Oct 3, 2009)

my PC was having a brain fart today..........

alrightie a Jan. 11, 44 was a rocket day literally.

LW lost 39 fighters out of 207 committed.

ZG 26 with I. and II. gruppe shot down 9 B-17's but lost lost 8 A/C
ZG 76 with I. and III. gruppe shot down 10 B-17's but lost 4 A/C

the US 3rd B.D. attacking Brunswick really got clobbered by twin engines w. Rockets/Cannon


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## Erich (Oct 3, 2009)

Jan:

you say you want to depict the A/C from the Müster raid on 10 October 1943.

here are some very brief stats for your files.

ZG 26 in it's entirety was involved, Stab and all 3 gruppen. shot down 16 US bombers but in the air op lost some 13 aircraft with 12 KIA and 6 wounded.

E ~


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## Lucky13 (Oct 4, 2009)

Erich said:


> my PC was having a brain fart today..........
> 
> alrightie a Jan. 11, 44 was a rocket day literally.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a follow up to the Müster raid '110.....



Erich said:


> Jan:
> 
> you say you want to depict the A/C from the Müster raid on 10 October 1943.
> 
> ...



The _whole_ ZG26 you say? That'll give plenty of '110's to pick from then...

Thank you once again Erich...


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## Lucky13 (Oct 4, 2009)

As I said in "Resent Purchases" thread, all this Bf 110G-2 'Pulk-Zerstörer' talk has inspired me to buy another Revell G-2....


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## Lucky13 (Oct 4, 2009)

Found good barrels for the MG 151/20 in 1/48 from Quickboost! Will be useful for a G-2 with MG 151/20's in the nose and the 3,7 cm.... 

Also, Erich, I agree about this pic of the '110's, it's impressive! If this one doesn't give you goosebumps, you're not a '110 fan....I'm sure that "Maxi" will agree on that, right?


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## Maximowitz (Oct 4, 2009)

Agreed! It's really nice to see this rather maligned aircraft getting a bit of popularity for a change. With the release by Eduard of the G-4 nightfighter I look forward to seeing more builds. I believe that Erich had a relation who flew a G-4.. perhaps it would be an interesting project to build his aircraft? What say you Erich?


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## Erich (Oct 4, 2009)

go for it you guys; would love to see a rendition of my cousin/ace Hans Baer of II./NJG 5. He was Gruppenkommandeur until his untimely death by accident in his G-4 ( December 31, 1943 ), his two man crew bailed out and I have never found them to know if they survived the war or not. Hans had 12 victories but only some 8 or so are found in Theo's monster work as confirmed. there is some speculation as to whether or not he had a Mossie to his credit but their is fact that a Mossie nearly ended his life when he flew a Do 217 in 4./NJG 3.

Life is fickle, go eat a pickle....

E ~


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## Maximowitz (Oct 4, 2009)

Definitely a job for Wayne I think, I imagine it would be an award winner. A very fitting tribute to an ace. I believe it was engine failure that caused the crash?


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 4, 2009)

Beautiful. I have to say the 110 is quickly becoming my favorite aircraft and Lucky's purchase is looking pretty dam nice to treat myself to.


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## Erich (Oct 4, 2009)

yes Maxi, Hans was over their airfield when one enigne shut down and the 110G-4 winged over, surprising to me that Hans was able to keep it level enough for the guys to bail and he went down with the crate


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## Airframes (Oct 5, 2009)

Hmm. Now that Revell have re-released their 1/32nd scale Bf110C, I wonder if they'll do the same with their '110G ? That one I wouldn't mind doing again. I wouldn't mind building Hans's crate, but I've recently done a 1/48th scale '110G as you know, so a bit of a change is needed I think.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 5, 2009)

Think that I'll have to get the G-4 at some point as well fellas....


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## Maximowitz (Oct 5, 2009)

Erich said:


> yes Maxi, Hans was over their airfield when one enigne shut down and the 110G-4 winged over, surprising to me that Hans was able to keep it level enough for the guys to bail and he went down with the crate



Clearly a very brave man. Are there any photos of the gentleman and his aircraft Erich?


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## Lucky13 (Oct 5, 2009)

Trying to find a '110 "Pulk Zerstorer" with the spinner spirals for the other G-2....pain in the neck!

True, is there any pics Hans and his '110?


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## Lucky13 (Oct 5, 2009)

Just found that CMK does this set for the Revell/Monogram '110 kit....8)


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## beaupower32 (Oct 5, 2009)

My bad about the dual pic Eric, I had a red x for that top picture, so I didnt know.


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## Erich (Oct 5, 2009)

no probs beau

as to my cousin no pics yet of his crate, I have one of his crew standing in front of their Do 217J when with 4./NJG 3. Hans is already a Hauptmann. I know there are other pics out there, it is just finding them.
think we can make assumptions as to what his G-4 looks like though.......


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## lesofprimus (Oct 5, 2009)

Maybe start a thread about the what ifs of this crate Erich???? Sounds like we have some serious intrest in doin Hans' bird...


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## Lucky13 (Oct 5, 2009)

...and you can get conversions to do the Do 217J as well, IF you want to do it in 1/48.


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## Maximowitz (Oct 5, 2009)

Just to clarify, from Dr Theo Boiten's "Nachtjagd War Diaries Vol II."

Hptm. Hans Baer.

4./NJG3, 5./NJG5, Stab II./NJG5.

Victories: 7 to 10.

Killed 20-21.12.1943 in crash at Garwitz near Parchim due to engine exploding on take off.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Simple Models do a resin Dornier Do 217N-2 conversion still trying to find J set....

There you go, Koster again, J-2/N-1. But, this is in vacum.

Was Hans' Dornier a J-2? I think that Italeri does one in 1/72...


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## Lucky13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Think that we've definitely cought a bug here....


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## Wayne Little (Oct 6, 2009)

I WILL catch this bug.....it's just a matter of time....


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## 109ROAMING (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm Glad mate!


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## Erich (Oct 6, 2009)

before going to 110G's in NJG 5 Hans flew an N variant of Dornier while in 4./NJG 3. will try and find more, I have stuff buried at the present

like Les said I should start up another thread as we are talking 2 different schemes/personell and a/c


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## jamierd (Oct 6, 2009)

its a good bug to have


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## Lucky13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Sounds great Erich! Will be following that thread with great interest! 

Edit: N, that's the '217 with the BMW engines, right?


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## Erich (Oct 6, 2009)

Jan

the Do 217N-1/U1 had DB's I think.............. sorry I just do not have enough info on his crate(s). nearly all except possibly 1 kill were in the Dornier 217. big slow heavy turd of a craft.

will start another thread in modeling now.


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## Erich (Oct 6, 2009)

to continue the day destroyer Bf 110G-2 thread.

II./ZG 1 after a mission


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## Lucky13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Great pic Erich!

Now, can I use this nose, drill out the MG's already there and replace them the MG 151/20's a few posts earlier?

Is this G-2 fact or fiction?


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## Erich (Oct 6, 2009)

the markings are fictious @N is ZG 1 code it should read M8

I posted on page ? the yellow banded 110's of ZG 76 in which 1-2 have the long barrel upper 2cm cannons. usually the spinner was not used in ZG 76 but a two colored circular marking to denote staffel


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## Lucky13 (Oct 10, 2009)

Well, a G-2 has been washed up.....so, any day now.


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## Airframes (Oct 10, 2009)

Washed up? Good heavens, is this a new aviation archaeology find? A Bf110G-2 washed up on a Scottish beach! Where, when, what condition....Oh! You mean you've washed the parts for your model! B*ll*cks, had me going there! I think I need a stiff drink to settle myself, where's that bottle of 'T Stoff'?

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


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## Lucky13 (Oct 10, 2009)

Yup! A G-2 with Bk 3,7 cm, MG 151/20's in the nose and a pair of rocket pods under each wing, in perfect condition too!

Anyhoo, painted the interior the usual grey, does anyone have colour profiles of the '110G-2 cockpit?


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## Lucky13 (Oct 11, 2009)




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## Maximowitz (Oct 11, 2009)

Airframes said:


> Washed up? Good heavens, is this a new aviation archaeology find? A Bf110G-2 washed up on a Scottish beach! Where, when, what condition....



It must be VJ + OQ...


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## Lucky13 (Oct 11, 2009)

Did a bit more....still some to touch up.


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## Airframes (Oct 11, 2009)

Nice work old chap!
VJ + OQ ? Wasn't that the one that Mr.Hess chappy stepped out of on his way to see the Duke of Hamilton? Very inconsiderate of him to let it find its own way down to a Scottish moor!


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## Lucky13 (Oct 11, 2009)

....and why would that be!?


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## B-17engineer (Oct 11, 2009)

Did you dry brush the gauges? If so, awesome!


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## Lucky13 (Oct 12, 2009)

Did a tad more.... Sorry for the quality!


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## Lucky13 (Oct 12, 2009)

Did paint them, not dry brush though H, thanks! (Forgot to say that! )

Well, the fuselage is joined up....











Now, the WGr.42's.... This being a ZG26 machine, was it equipped with one _or_ two WGr's under each wing at the time for the Munster raid? If just the one under each wing, was it mounted further out or in on the wing..?


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## lesofprimus (Oct 12, 2009)

Great work so far Jan, the pit looks fantastic.... Not sure on the mounting of the WGr's....


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## Lucky13 (Oct 12, 2009)

Much obliged Dan!


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## Erich (Oct 12, 2009)

Jan if you are planning on doing a big boy Flak 3.7cm crate I would omit the rocket launchers fro either wing. too much weight and it through the aero - characteristics way off. it was literally overkill on the a/c


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## Lucky13 (Oct 12, 2009)

Was going to do this one with the 151/20 bellymounted gunpod Erich. Getting the Flak 3,7cm for the next '110, that and the nose mounted 151/20's..... 8)


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## Airframes (Oct 12, 2009)

Nice work old boy! BTW, Hess used the '110 to get to Britain, to try to broker a peace deal via the Duke of Hamilton. He flew it himself, and baled out near the Duke's place in the hills. The remains of the rear fuselage are now in the museum at Duxford (or is it the RAF Museum? Don't remember seeing it during my last 2 trips to DX). Got the full story (well, one of them anyway) if you want it.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 12, 2009)

Could go down well with a pint or three, eh?


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## B-17engineer (Oct 12, 2009)

Awesome! Way to go Jan! And nice with the gauge painting, takes a real steady hand!


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## Airframes (Oct 12, 2009)

I'll type up a brief account and e-mail it to you old boy!


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## Lucky13 (Oct 13, 2009)

D*mn decent of you old chap!


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## Lucky13 (Oct 13, 2009)

Think that I drilled too many holes.....


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## rochie (Oct 13, 2009)

coming along nicely old fruit


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## Airframes (Oct 13, 2009)

I say old chap, apart from the underside of the wing looking like a jolly decent Ementall, it's looks spiffing don't you know!
Got a decent crusted Port to go with the cheese have we?


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## B-17engineer (Oct 13, 2009)

NICE!


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## Lucky13 (Oct 13, 2009)

Thanks awfully chaps!


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## 109ROAMING (Oct 14, 2009)

Looking good Jan 8)


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## Lucky13 (Oct 16, 2009)

Cheers mate!

Did a bit more today.....


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## B-17engineer (Oct 16, 2009)

Lovely!! Great job Jan!


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## Lucky13 (Oct 16, 2009)

Cheers H, appreciated!


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## B-17engineer (Oct 16, 2009)

Who is the maker of the tape I see in pic three and the brush


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## Lucky13 (Oct 17, 2009)

That's Tamiya tape Harrison.... Great stuff! 8) The brush, if you're talking about the blue/yellow one is Revell....


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## Vic Balshaw (Oct 17, 2009)

I say old chap, that's a dam fine job your doing there. Positively sniffing repair work on the fuselage/wing join


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## Lucky13 (Oct 17, 2009)

Jolly decent of you to say so old boy, thanks awfully! One rightfully deserves a Guinness now what!


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## Vic Balshaw (Oct 17, 2009)

Golly good show old bean, drop of the old lunchtime swill, hay what.


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## Airframes (Oct 17, 2009)

Nice work old boy. I see it's got the same gap on that lower panel as the G4 kit - suppose it wiill, as the moulds will be general. Good repair old chap, but don't forget the small joint in front of the belly gun pack.


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## B-17engineer (Oct 17, 2009)

Many thanks Jan! 

I am colorblind, so please forgive me, the Revell one is the one above the Tamiya tape?


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## Lucky13 (Oct 17, 2009)

Will be taken care of Terry, old boy!

That's the one Harrison....


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## B-17engineer (Oct 17, 2009)

Haha Okay, sorry


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## Lucky13 (Oct 17, 2009)

No sweat mate!


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## Airframes (Oct 17, 2009)

Thought it would old chap!


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 17, 2009)

Nice!


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## imalko (Oct 17, 2009)

I say, jolly good show old boy. That's rather nice looking Messerschmitt your working on. Can't wait to see it done.

(But I can't help but wonder, how do you manage to work on so many models at the same time Jan?)


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## Lucky13 (Oct 17, 2009)

Thanks Igor!

Well, it helps to keep my fingers away while some kit parts are drying etc....


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## Lucky13 (Oct 18, 2009)

Having drilled too many holes in the wing for this ZG26 G-2, for both the WGr's and the extra fuel tanks, did the ZG26 ever use both the tanks and the WGr's at one time, or was it either way?
Haven't seen any ZG26 '110's with this setup....


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## Lucky13 (Oct 19, 2009)

Don't have much noses to pick from, neither is correct for a ZG26 '110G-2 right? Even though the nose without the 151/20 is as close as I'll get....


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## Erich (Oct 19, 2009)

ZG 26 and 76 both used the same two noses you present and also the rocket mortars and drop tanks to either wing for their long distance flights


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## Lucky13 (Oct 20, 2009)

Thank you ever so much Erich, very much appreciated! 






I added the 151/20 nose. So, in the end this will become a ZG26 '110G-2 with with wing mounted tanks, WGr's and six (correct?) MG151/20's...

Is there any pics floating around of a machine equipped like this from ZG26, so that I can get a correct code, october '43, around the Munster raid?


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## B-17engineer (Oct 20, 2009)

Loooooooooookin great!!!


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## Erich (Oct 20, 2009)

Jan

we have ZG 1 and ZG 76 confirmed with the forward 6 2cm cannons. hae no clue right now about ZG 26 crates


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## Maximowitz (Oct 20, 2009)

Getting there mate...looking good.


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## Crimea_River (Oct 20, 2009)

Can wait to see it done! As for the holes - battle damage??


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## Lucky13 (Oct 21, 2009)

Right, ok Erich, would you mind awfully to see if you have something fitting, anything, for a ZG76 G-2 and the Munster raid? Saving the ZG1 for the Eduard '110G-2.... 

Thanks once again!

Cheers guys, getting closer. Those 6 2cm's must have done some serious damage to the bombers, those that came close enough to them that is....not to mention the WGr's!


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## Vic Balshaw (Oct 21, 2009)

Keep it coming Lucky, just think of that cool creamy Guinness at the end


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## Erich (Oct 21, 2009)

Jan

only ZG 1 and ZG 26 flew on the Münster raid, I see no losses or kills by ZG 76 for the date and 3 days before and after in October 43 for ZG 76.

E ~


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## Lucky13 (Oct 21, 2009)

I see, thanks Erich!  Think that I'll stick with the ZG26 for this machine then, and the Munster raid. Was it Stab/ZG26 and III./ZG26 and their 7, 8 and 9th staffeln you said? Would these be coded *3U* then, and either *3U+?A*, *3U+?R*, *3U+?S* and *3U+?T*

The other G-2 (Revell too) ZG 76 with I. and III. gruppe, which took part in the Brunnsvick(?) raid in January 44....

Any ideas of ZG26 and ZG76 strength, when going up for these missions, 75%, 50% or less? They must have been running low on airworthy airframes _and_ crews at this time.....



As always, very much appreciated for you, and others Erich, for taking your time...


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## Erich (Oct 21, 2009)

Jan

Stab., I. and III gruppen of ZG 26 had the Bf 110G-2's in October of 43, II. gruppe was making the change over to the Me 410A. the colur changes to code letters of the staffels is still a bit confusing as due to strength losses which were not much in the Fall, Janaury of 44 is another story, but many times as with the S/E day fighter units even the T/E ZG's staffels would put together their staffel A/C which were sometimes flown by other staffel crews

make sense ? now it would be safe to say your ZG machine could hold the upper 3cm and lower nose 2cm cannons, sometimes the add on of the twin 2cm wafen pod but sometimes not, it is almost too much weight for the crate to handle and slower than a slug on a rainy day.

E `


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## Lucky13 (Oct 21, 2009)

I understand Erich... As for the nose cannons and the gun pod, these has already been attached, but only the holes drilled for the WGr's and the extra fuel tanks. Would it be, you think, a better bet to leave off the WGr's on the machine and only attach the fuel tanks? It's easy enough to fill those wee holes....

Thinking more and more what a suicide mission it must have been, to go up in the air to meet those, B-17's, B-24's, P-51's and P-47's in heavy slow mowing '110's...

Another thing, how accurate were those WGr's, how close did you have to get to your target, to make sure that you'd get a kill? I mean, they were in no way guided, pretty much shoot and hope for the best, right


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## Airframes (Oct 21, 2009)

I've got some info somewhere on the WGr Jan, but far as I remember, it was approximately 1,000 metres stand off maximum, for reasonable acccuracy, with proximity fusing, possibly accoustic proximity fusing also, tuned to the Db output of the B17/B24 engines.
So, basically point and shoot, and if detonation was close enough, it would cause serious damage, or knock the tatget down. The round was basically the same as the 'Moaning Minnie' ground 'nebelwerfer' ammunition, so a realtively wide blast area on detonation.


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## Erich (Oct 21, 2009)

up to you on the fuel tanks, probably worn and then maybe not, though in combat ops they were discarded if the crew remembered to drop them which they usually did not as they were focused on other things, the attack, swopping up or down to get away from the most nasty P-47 cover.

well the rockets were terribly inaccurate, they were fired in salvo's and were suppose to be delivered with minimum of 3 Bf 110G's or 3 Me 410'sA/B's, obviously it would of been best to fire as a straight line staffel but hardly correct in battle conditions when everyone is trying to deliver the coup de grace on a US heavy.

in brief let me just say it was used as a mass barrage to excite and throw the B-17/B-24 crews in total chaos.

many times this worked where the boxes would fall out of formation be so completely confused the smaller s/e fighters could come in close with their 2cm cannons.

sounds ing when you think hard and long about it but that is exactly what happened ........

unless the 110G's had a high cover of Bf 109G's then they of course and even with escort were doomed to Allied escorts even in late 43.


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## Lucky13 (Apr 23, 2010)

Just thought that I get some done on this crate again.....fiddle a bit this weekend.


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## Airframes (Apr 23, 2010)

You can get arrested for that old boy!!


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## Wayne Little (Apr 24, 2010)

Go Jan!


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## Lucky13 (Jul 19, 2010)

Well, after finishing that lovely wee PZL 11C, I thoght that I'd try to get something done on this bird....












Now, masking the canopy.....thank God that I'm off for the rest of the week, including next Monday, after tonight, I'm gonna need it!


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## Wayne Little (Jul 19, 2010)

You'll knock that over in short order with a mask set Jan!


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## Lucky13 (Jul 19, 2010)

Which I don't have.... Doing it the hardcore way!


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## B-17engineer (Jul 19, 2010)

Great Jan!


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## Lucky13 (Jul 19, 2010)

Cheers young Master Harrison!


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## ccheese (Jul 19, 2010)

You can handle it, Jan. Go, my man, go !

Charles


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## Lucky13 (Jul 19, 2010)

Will do my very best Mr C....


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## T Bolt (Jul 19, 2010)

Looks like thats going to need a steady hand Jan. Better stay away from the Guinness for a wile!


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## Lucky13 (Jul 19, 2010)

Will try Glenn!


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## Maximowitz (Jul 19, 2010)

It's worth it. It's a Bf 110.


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## Airframes (Jul 19, 2010)

I can hear the cursing from here !


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## Lucky13 (Jul 20, 2010)

I _never_ curse! Possibly I use an 'oh dear' and such, occasionally....


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## Wayne Little (Jul 20, 2010)

Lucky13 said:


> Which I don't have.... Doing it the hardcore way!



Oh!...well have fun my good man....

Keep the language down to a minimum, the neighbours need their rest....


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## Lucky13 (Jul 20, 2010)

(Extremely foul language) No they don't!


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## Vic Balshaw (Jul 20, 2010)

Okay mate, you've got a few days off, plenty time to mask and paint the canopy..........good luck and just think of that lovely lip smacking pot of Guinness waiting at the end............


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## Airframes (Jul 20, 2010)

Whadya mean, at the end?? He'll be having it during !!


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## Erich (Jul 20, 2010)

back on topic now ..............

ah since it has been sometime the G-2 is going to be from what unit ?


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## Lucky13 (Jul 20, 2010)

Errmmmmm.....need to go back and check again Erich!


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## Wayne Little (Jul 21, 2010)

Canopy should be done by now.... ...shouldn't it?


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## Lucky13 (Jul 21, 2010)

Think that we decided for a ZG26 crate from the Münster raid on 10 October 1943 Erich...

Not happy with the result here. can't see where you're cutting....*easy...easy...easy....eeeek!....too far....d*mmit....* Think that I'll remove it and try the clear film that I have....be able to save it. 





















Noticed some damaged from molding on the other canopy coming with the G-2. Also, saw that the other rear canopy comes with two opening for rigid mouned MG's, what kinda G-2 had that?


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## B-17engineer (Jul 21, 2010)

Looks great Jan!


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## Erich (Jul 21, 2010)

rigid mounted mg's ?

what you want is a flexible MG 81Z like the Ju 87D variants


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## Lucky13 (Jul 21, 2010)

....and that's what I'll be using Erich.

Just curious about this one.....never seen it on a G-2 before.


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## Erich (Jul 21, 2010)

it's is for the the twin 2cm Schrägwaffen on the G-4 Nachtjäger ....... ooooooops, someone screwed up big time if this is for the G-2 variant


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## Lucky13 (Jul 21, 2010)

It's alright Erich, just curious as to why it's with the G-2 kit. Got the single mounted MG canopy. Would the code for ZG 26 at this point 3U+?? then, for the October 10th raid?


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## Erich (Jul 21, 2010)

yes small 3U + ??


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## Lucky13 (Jul 21, 2010)

....and it was the whole of the ZG 26 that took part on the 10th of October '43, right?


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## Erich (Jul 21, 2010)

Jan :

I believe that the whole of ZG 26 was suppose to be committed but only III./ZG 26 with the G-2 really engaged claiming some 13 B-17's and losing 10 Bf 110G-2's in return, none of the other two gruppen lost any according to ZG 26 records


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## Lucky13 (Jul 21, 2010)

Right, thanks Erich! Appreciated! Which other ZG's took part, with G-2's?


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## Erich (Jul 21, 2010)

ZG 1 had them on hand and at least 2 other NJG's with 110G-4's though think they did not score at all, pursued by 8th AF P-47's


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## Lucky13 (Jul 21, 2010)

Much obliged young man! III./ZG 26 it is then.....7th, 8th or 9th Staffeln.

Maybe with a ZG 76 (G-2's as well?) from 11th January '44 to follow. What city or factory etc., was the target on that day?


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## Erich (Jul 21, 2010)

young man ? I wish...............

11 January 44 was a chaotic mission for both sides, an operation of death, am going to have to pull out some data and not go from memory. code is small M8 + ?? . yellow wide fuselage band

ZG 26 band is narrow white band, II./ZG 1's is a wide white band


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## Lucky13 (Jul 21, 2010)

Thank you ever so much Erich!


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## Erich (Jul 21, 2010)

Jan

think this op is one of the biggest US cover ups in the Allied air war for Europe

NJG 1,2,3,5, and 6 were involved with their NF's

Stab, and II./ZG 26 were involed and claimed 3 B-17's.

I. and III./ZG 76 claimed 10 B-17's and lost 4 Bf 110G-2's.

LW claims total were around 91 US aircraft though a bit overinflated think it is quite possible US forces lost well over 70 A/C this op putting it as the top loss operation over Germany.

there was a book written by a Dutch author on this mission several years ago.

this info has been from many years ago but I have a note the 1st BD with B-17's was hit by 110's and the lead pathfinder was shot down on a duel raid to Oschersleben and Halberstadt while the 3rd BD with B-17 was also hit by 110's with rockets over Brunswick. now whether the NJG's night fighters added to the carnage am not 100 % sure but must have added to the chaos that would be fact.


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## Lucky13 (Jul 21, 2010)

That's the other Revell G-2 sorted then my friend....thanks a bunch! Appreciated indeed!


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## B-17engineer (Jul 21, 2010)

I have a Revell G-2 I'm thinking of building


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## Erich (Jul 21, 2010)

got to it H the upper nose 3cm or without, with aero covers on the upper nose and lower nose 2cm as standard and then the belly tray with the twin 2cm cannons, this all pretty much the cue for 1944 for ZG 1, 26 and 76, dispensed with 3.7cm and upper nose 3cm cannons. twin rocket launchers under each wing was also standard until the ZG's dumped the 110 G-2 entirely the unit II./ZG 1 kept the 110G-2 through the summer of 44 till disbanded and the units cadre went to single engine fighters


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## Lucky13 (Jul 21, 2010)

So, would this nose be correct for a ZG 76 'G-2, at this time and place then Erich....?

Thanks again!


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## Erich (Jul 21, 2010)

yes though the circular cap fittings, well they should be more angular if this makes sense, maybe those earlier photos posted on the thread or elsewhere will help ? Don;t think I have a good real closeup of the nose of the variant showing the 2cm lower in the nose only


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## Lucky13 (Jul 21, 2010)

I know what you mean Erich....the top pic of the G-2 in post 22, shows them rather well in John Vasco's second '110 book, more angular and oval in shape....right?


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## Erich (Jul 21, 2010)

am looking through a German publication right now. not sure how to explain this but maybe Vasco has some other hidden pics. the ventilator up in the front/camera of the nose is pushed forward in almost a bulge type of setting the holes for the upper nose cannons are not even present but as I said a very much contoured bulge right in the front.

It also appears that I. and II./ZG 76 used a dual white ring over the spinner hub from the fall of 1943 into 1944


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## Lucky13 (Jul 21, 2010)

There's a profile in the same book of a G-2 from I./ZG 76, *M8+UH*, small M8, narrow white band, almost at the beginning of the tail, white spinner tip and a narrow white band on the same. Here and in the pics of the same crate, the air intake is square in shape....did the intakes come in different shapes on the 'G-2?


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## Erich (Jul 21, 2010)

the proifle should have a wide yellow band as seen in photos. narrow white band was for ZG 26 birds. not sure about the nose appartus it should of been one and the same once the techs sent drawings back to the factory for a more streamlined nose cap/deletion of the upper 2cm cannons


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## Lucky13 (Jul 22, 2010)

Here's the profiles from John Vasco's second volume of the '110 zerstorer. Need to get the other books at some point.


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## Erich (Jul 22, 2010)

well that band in the photo does not look quite right and compared to the bold white U does not look white to me, I say yellow as it should be from all photo evidence I have

Jan can you do a closeup up of the upper left corner pic as it shows the band better. yellow as the colour for ZG 76, I. gruppe may have worn a narrow white band of short duration but again that was for ZG 26


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## Lucky13 (Jul 22, 2010)

Wish that I could do better Erich...


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## Erich (Jul 22, 2010)

yes it looks white, odd think it is really short term as I say this when ZG 76 went over to the Me 410A's their band for a time was red.


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## Lucky13 (Jul 22, 2010)

Yeah? Luftwaffe, did things that can keep you awake at night....  Another question on the G-2, any idea how common and which ZG's had them armed up with the MG 151/20 in the nose and the 3,7 cm cannon?


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## Erich (Jul 22, 2010)

not common. remember the ZG 76 photos I posted and I think on your thread............I hope. yellow wide band on the fuselage, maybe I did not.

both ZG 26 and 76 used the heavy crates. I have gun cam footage of one firing on the rear of a B-24 box with one Lib getting ripped pretty badly in the engines

rats I was thinking of the pics I posted on page numero uno, that does show the true colours of the fuselage bands in question Jan


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## Lucky13 (Jul 22, 2010)

The ones in post #5? 4 2 cm's, lower nose, the belly gunpod and the two 3 cm's....


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## Erich (Jul 22, 2010)

as you can see in that image I posted a yellow N over a yellow wide band. that arms configuration was not often used either. I must point out that in the fall of 43 numerous and some innovative arms ideas were used. in the case of the 2 Bf 110G-2's posted that are "wearing" just 2cm cannon no 3cm

wish I could post up the other 6 images that I have of 2Z+BP, MP, EP etc. the wide band almost looks yellow through the filter the radio op is taking with his camera, but it is white. this is on the first page showing the 110's banking in the winter skies


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## Lucky13 (Jul 22, 2010)

My bad!  6 x 2 cm cannons are bad enough.... Shame that you can't see the code on the crates with the 2 cm's and 3 cm's!


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## Erich (Jul 22, 2010)

yes the last one is a ZG 26 bird with narrow white band in the other pic that Paul enlarged on another page


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## Lucky13 (Jul 22, 2010)

Tempting to do one of the ZG 76 birds in post #5, would these _possibly_ have taken part in the 11 January '44 raid?


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## Lucky13 (Jul 22, 2010)

These 1/48 Quickboost MG 151/20 barrels, might come in handy....


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## Erich (Jul 22, 2010)

Jan I may have said this in past posting but here goes again................

one of the big probs is IDing the time frames using existing photographs of 110G-2's and their codes.

I. gruppe started using M8+ colored numeral in February of 44 maybe earlier. II. gruppe started using the code plus colored number in December of 1943, cannot tell for III. gruppe as month of activity in the losses records does not give the appropriate codes for any A/C. So for the big op on 11 January it is anyone's guess, I am assuming that II. gruppe did not use the full code but a colored numeral, the numeral could also through photos be put on the nose below the camera. I see a yellow 12 on one bird cracked up the spinners are solid black as an example.


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## Lucky13 (Jul 23, 2010)

Enough to give anyone a headache I see! Thanks Erich!


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## Lucky13 (Aug 14, 2010)

Been tooling a bit today....


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## Wurger (Aug 14, 2010)

Good job here Jan. Some of patiency and voila...right?


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## B-17engineer (Aug 14, 2010)

Sweet work!


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## lesofprimus (Aug 14, 2010)

Nice Jan, never used a mask before, but one did come with my Bf109E-4 that Im doin for the BoB Build... 

Was it easy to do??


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## Erich (Aug 14, 2010)

so Dan you're next project will be a 110G-2 as well right ? 8)

lookin good Jan patience with yourself that is the key my eyes are so crap now I would not even be able to cut straight lines with an X-Acto if not take a finer off ............... ah well


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## lesofprimus (Aug 14, 2010)

No 110's in my future E... I would sure love to do a 110 in the future carrying an external 3.7 pod tho... I love the look of it even if it was an operational miss....


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## Erich (Aug 14, 2010)

let us know I will be there to help, or do a forward 6 2cm power wagon convert that would be interesting to see........

wish my eyes were better would luv to tackle a plastic model again, it's been way too many years


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## lesofprimus (Aug 14, 2010)

Its all about the pod mounted 3.7cm beast under her belly for me Erich... Someday I WILL build this one in 1:32nd with a resin set for the 3.7, open panels etc, really showcase the gun....

I have a slight love affair with the gun if u cant tell lol...


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## B-17engineer (Aug 14, 2010)

Erich mine next 'non-group build' build will be a 110 G-2


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## Airframes (Aug 14, 2010)

Nice work old chap !
When I did my 110G-4, I couldn't get the tape to conform and stick properly, so ended up free-hand painting most of the canopy - what an ache in the sphericals, I can tell you !


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## Lucky13 (Aug 14, 2010)

Cheers lads, appreciated! The Eduard Masks really makes things easier to, compared to cut yourself! 

Erich, my next G-2 will be a six 2cm gun ship....those _looong_ barrels in the nose just look bad*ss!


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 14, 2010)

"Nice masking job Tex".


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## Erich (Aug 14, 2010)

Yowser ! I can see I will be adding two cents along the way, ...................................... that is a good thing.

Kühl Gents

E ~


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## Lucky13 (Aug 14, 2010)

Well Erich, you know that your '2 cents' are always worth at least a Dollar to me....


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## Erich (Aug 14, 2010)

if you say so Jan ............


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## Lucky13 (Aug 14, 2010)

I believe that I do so my friend....  

Still got a few '110's to do, so how about it _mate_, another G-2 and a G-4 nightfighter?


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## B-17engineer (Aug 15, 2010)

I'm getting the G-4 profipack soon found it for a fantastic price. The source is secret until I get mine


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## Lucky13 (Aug 15, 2010)

Good on ya H!  Keeping my eyes open for the same and Eduards D variant, then we'll have the whole lot!  

Well, the F is still missing.....


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## Airframes (Aug 15, 2010)

But there's no 'F' in 'Messerschmitt'. Oh, I see, that's what you meant - there's no .......


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## Wayne Little (Aug 15, 2010)

What the F ??


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## Lucky13 (Aug 15, 2010)

For F sake, give us a F break!  Painting has started.....RLM 76 done, 75 and 74 next.


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## Wayne Little (Aug 15, 2010)

Lucky13 said:


> Painting has started.....RLM 76 done, 75 and 74 next.



Cool!


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## Lucky13 (Aug 15, 2010)

Need to touch up the RLM 76 again me think. What RLM should the inside of the fins be? I sprayed them RLM 75.... RLM 74 next, just let it dry for some time....
And some more mottling..


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## B-17engineer (Aug 15, 2010)

Looks fantastic Jan!


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## lesofprimus (Aug 15, 2010)

Came out great Jan, keep on her...


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## dirkpitt289 (Aug 15, 2010)

Looks great from where I'm sitting. 8)


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## Lucky13 (Aug 15, 2010)

Cheers lads, appreciated! Will keep on the wee lass, just touch up on the '76 and more mottling and camouflage with the '74 and '75.


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## Erich (Aug 15, 2010)

so far so good Jan, please for my sake and historical accuracy DO NOT paint the underengine cowlings yellow or the underwing tips ............


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## Airframes (Aug 15, 2010)

Nice work old boy ! Inboard sides of the fins is RLM 76, with the mottle.


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## rochie (Aug 15, 2010)

not bad at all old boy, well done


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## T Bolt (Aug 15, 2010)

Very nice job with the airbrush Jan!


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## Lucky13 (Aug 15, 2010)

Cheers guys, much appreciated so it is!

*Erich:* I am not going to do that.....was going to ask though, glad that I don't have to now.  

*Terry:* Then I'll just spray them '76 again, when I touch up the rest....

Will be ordering my 2cm guns later, for my 6 gun ship.....8) Just to give you a headstart Erich.


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## Lucky13 (Aug 15, 2010)

Did a tad more tonight.....tomorrow, touching up.


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## hub (Aug 15, 2010)

Very nice should look great when it's completed

Mike


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## B-17engineer (Aug 15, 2010)

Sweet Jan!


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## Lucky13 (Aug 15, 2010)

Ta much Mike and Harrison, appreciated!


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## Lucky13 (Aug 16, 2010)

Some touching done and still a wee bit to do....


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## Wayne Little (Aug 16, 2010)

Nice Jan!!


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## T Bolt (Aug 16, 2010)

Sweet!


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## Lucky13 (Aug 16, 2010)

Much obliged chaps!  Paint the landing gear shortly.....


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## Airframes (Aug 16, 2010)

Nice work old chap, treat yourself to a dram or three !


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## B-17engineer (Aug 16, 2010)

Great work !


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## Lucky13 (Aug 16, 2010)

Schanksch fur sche schrdram schterry.....veschy musch affreschiated!

Ta much H!


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## B-17engineer (Aug 16, 2010)

Jan is this the Revell G-2 or Eduard? If its Revell how was it?


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## Lucky13 (Aug 16, 2010)

It's Revell indeed H. It's a good kit, don't worry about that, even if I made an *rse of myself going the wrong way with the engine nacelles and wings....which was my own fault and not the kit!  

Get to it young man....chop chop!


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## B-17engineer (Aug 16, 2010)

Sounds good!! Maybe start later in the week?


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## Lucky13 (Aug 16, 2010)

Good idea my friend....


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## lesofprimus (Aug 16, 2010)

Looking sharp Jan... Any extra tweaks for the gear or are u goin oob??


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 17, 2010)

Nicely done Jan!


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## Lucky13 (Aug 17, 2010)

Cheers! Going OOB Brother.....

Ta much VB....

Appreciated guys!


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## Lucky13 (Aug 20, 2010)

How common were these 6 2cm '110's?


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## Erich (Aug 20, 2010)

not common, sorry I have no figures for II./ZG 1 or ZG 26 and ZG 76 useage. pic's though of ZG 1 and ZG 76 birds


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## Lucky13 (Aug 20, 2010)

That's perfectly alright Erich my friend, no need apologise, even the sun has its spots....   Any suggestions for couple of interesting 'victims'? 
Try to remember the raid where they were up in force for a real 'cannon day'....need to go back and check.


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## Erich (Aug 20, 2010)

Jan go to my posting on # 103

II./ZG 1 birds


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## Lucky13 (Aug 21, 2010)

Tempted to get this wee thing.....is it an alright book?

#103, always liked that pic, since posting it Erich.... 8)


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## Erich (Aug 21, 2010)

I have the book in the old original blue cover, good book, the pics are dark the bomber destroyer pics though interesting are copied off small


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## Lucky13 (Aug 22, 2010)

Did a tad more tooling around on the '110 today....



























































I need a better camera!


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 22, 2010)

Nice!


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## T Bolt (Aug 22, 2010)

Looking real nice Jan! How did you do the whitewall on the tail wheel. I'm starting to think about how I'm going to do that for my 109s


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## Lucky13 (Aug 22, 2010)

Cheers lads! I handpainted the whitewall, since the wheel is made in that way you can do that....


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## Lucky13 (Aug 22, 2010)

What's the colours for these birds then Erich, III./ZG 26.....7th, 8th or 9th Staffeln? Small black *3U* it was at the time of the Münster raid, if I remember correctly, right? 7th, *3U+??*, 8th *3U+??* and 9th *3U+??*.......? Should this crate have a tailband? Should the spinner tips be painted in the same colour?


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## B-17engineer (Aug 22, 2010)

Fantastic!!


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## Lucky13 (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks Big Man....appreciated!

Now, about your '110.....


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## Erich (Aug 23, 2010)

Jan the twin 2cm cannon in the waffen pod are not correct, they came with the kit correct ? they should be stragiht lined not with some sort of collar close to the top of the barrels which seem real odd


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## Lucky13 (Aug 23, 2010)

Riiiight....better try to do something about them then Erich, they did came with the kit yes.


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## Erich (Aug 23, 2010)

I want to say there is a brass kit available but not 100 % positive on that maybe a couple other members should chime in.


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## Lucky13 (Aug 23, 2010)

Worked the wee 'things' down on the barrels....not as noticable now.


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## B-17engineer (Aug 23, 2010)

Lucky13 said:


> Thanks Big Man....appreciated!
> 
> Now, about your '110.....



Gotta work on the Group Builds!


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## Lucky13 (Aug 23, 2010)

Excuses!


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## B-17engineer (Aug 23, 2010)

nooo!


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## Lucky13 (Oct 17, 2010)

Well, let's see if we can get back on track with this one chaps! Now, where were we?


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## Wayne Little (Oct 18, 2010)

Some new pictures...maybe?


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## Lucky13 (Oct 19, 2010)

Eeeerrrmmmmmmm......


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## Lucky13 (May 5, 2012)

Just 'Kleared' the '110, decals tomorrow, some of them....


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## Crimea_River (May 5, 2012)

Great stuff Jan! Nice to see you getting close to finishing this one.


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## Wurger (May 5, 2012)

Looking good.


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## Airframes (May 5, 2012)

Ah, ees vaary nyce to zee you back at eet mon ami - must be all zat French wine !!
(and for those who are puzzled - visit Elvington, you'll soon understand !!!)


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## Lucky13 (May 5, 2012)

Yup! Need to go through the thread again, to see what unit she was to be marked for....


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## Lucky13 (May 6, 2012)

Right, the crate is for either ZG 26 Stab or III./ZG 26 > 7, 8 or 9th staffels and the Münster raid....decals!


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## Lucky13 (May 6, 2012)

Getting there! Tempted to raid my other (Eduard) '110's for decals, those that won't be used, if possible!


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## Lucky13 (May 6, 2012)

Question is though, which!?


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## jjp_nl (May 6, 2012)

That 110 is coming together very nicely indeed! (nice big stash of 110's too...., got a few of those Ed kits sitting around as well) When I finish my T-34 tank I think I'll go back to my own Eduard 110G-4 and try to make some progress with that.


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## Lucky13 (May 6, 2012)

Only need the D and the G-4 and I'll a full Eduard 'set'!


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## Crimea_River (May 6, 2012)

Good stuff Jan. If you're after stencils for your bird, borrow some from a kit that will have a field applied camo scheme as the stencils likely would have been painted over.


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## Airframes (May 7, 2012)

Good stuff old boy, starting to really come to life.


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## Lucky13 (May 7, 2012)

Cheers lads!


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## rochie (May 7, 2012)

does look spiffing old fruit


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## Njaco (May 7, 2012)

uhhh? wahat? Somebody nudged me and said Jan was working the 110 again! Oh......I see, nice Jan, very good.


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## Lucky13 (May 11, 2012)

Decals are slowly but surely....


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## Wurger (May 11, 2012)

Excellent !


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## Crimea_River (May 11, 2012)




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## Airframes (May 11, 2012)

Jolly well done old chap, do have a Dubonnet !


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## rochie (May 11, 2012)

very nice


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## vikingBerserker (May 11, 2012)

Looking pretty sweet!


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## Lucky13 (May 12, 2012)

Cheers fellas!
Hope to get them tanks and rockets done this weekend....


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## Lucky13 (May 13, 2012)

I managed to drop the blasted thing on the floor, while painting it! Just wait to let it dry and do it all again!


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## Njaco (May 13, 2012)

Most excellent! I had a hard time with the rocket tubes on my 410 - buggers!


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## Lucky13 (May 13, 2012)

Cheers mate! Same here, they don't want to stay in the middle of the tubes! Blasted things!


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## Airframes (May 13, 2012)

Give them a jolly stiff talking to old chap - can't have the little blighters moving around all day, can we, what!


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## Wayne Little (May 15, 2012)

Good work there Jan!


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## Crimea_River (May 15, 2012)

Yup, very nice.


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## Lucky13 (May 15, 2012)

Cheers lads! Appreciated as always! 

Repaint one of the drop tanks later....


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## Nathunt (Mar 17, 2019)

Any updates???


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## Capt. Vick (Mar 19, 2019)

Nice work Jan!


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