# Your First Taste of History



## Ferdinand Foch (Aug 22, 2011)

Hey everyone. I've been thinking for awhile. Many of us here like history, of war, aviation, world, etc. What I was interested in is when did people first have a taste of history? I guess I'll start with my own story. 

When I was five or six, I was at the next door neighbor's, who were babysitting me. I was watching "Reading Rainbow" when they talked about a book called the "Titanic," which was this twenty page booklet with simple information on the ship. This eventually led to me learning more about the Titanic. I also started learning about other great liners, especially the shipwrecks: Empress of Ireland, Lusitania, Britannic, Andrea Doria, etc. Then I started learning about warships like the Hood, the Bismarck, U-boats (like the U-110), and the carriers at the Battle of Midway after watching a National Geographic special on it (when Ballard located the Yorktown, CV-5). 
My family would also take Vassili and I down to South Carolina, where my ma's parents went to during the winter. We got to see Charleston, and learned about the Hunley, Fort. Sumter, Fort Pulaski, and other battlefields related to the Civil War. 
Hehe, well that's how I started learning and loving history. Can't wait to hear other responses.


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## Florence (Aug 22, 2011)

Interesting topic. I suppose it was after watching all those glorious old war movies when I was younger ie The Longest Day, Midway, 12 O'clock High, Battle of the Bulge...the list is endless. My dad taped them on the old VHS when they came on TV and I would watch my favourites over and over again. As I grew older I wanted to know the real story behind all these movies and therein lies the beginning of my fascination with military history. I am still a sucker for a good war movie.

David.


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## RabidAlien (Aug 22, 2011)

You should check out the book "Shadow Divers", if you haven't already. I think you'd really like it.

I grew up in the Air Force, so airplanes (mainly B-52's and F-4's that I can remember) and military were always a part of my life growing up. They're cool, but planes never really seemed to grab my imagination like they did with some guys. But the P-38....now, THAT was an airplane! It was odd looking, kinda like the ugly duckling, and didn't get much attention, so maybe that's why I always loved that bird. After getting out of the Navy, I got married, divorced, blah blah blah...one of the only positive things to come out of it was that she challenged me to look up P38s. So I did. I found a book online, "The Last Great Ace", and went to Barnes-n-Nobel to find it. Didn't find it. I did, however, find "Baa Baa Blacksheep" (Boyington's autobiography), and bought it instead, since I remembered watching that show with Dad as a kid. I was hooked. Ordered "Last Great Ace" from Amazon, and my Amazon wishlist/shopping cart has not been empty since. I love the personal stories that the guys tell of their time in the trenches/air, or the biographies of those (like Major Thomas McGuire, "Last Great Ace") who never made it back. This is History like we were never taught in school....I would've done MUCH better in that subject if it was taught differently!


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## tyrodtom (Aug 22, 2011)

I'm a child of the fifties who grew up emersed in the WW2 generation. My Dad was in the 1st Marines at Guadalcanal, my mother had 5 brothers in the war, and lost 2, one in the Navy coming home on leave, the other in the Marines at Saipan. And my dad lost a brother in Italy, as a B24 navigator. A lot of my friend's Dads were veterans, the majority of the adult males of the church I attended were WW2 veterans, and teachers too. So I was completely surrounded by history, it fasinated me then, but even as a child I could see the toll history can take on the people who live it.


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## parsifal (Aug 22, 2011)

I have been interested in history for as long as I can remember. When i was a kid I loved ancient history. As I progressed to adolesence i got interested in wargaming, and then wargame design. went to officer training school and started serious study in strategic studies and military planning. From military college received my bachelors degree, and then masters degree in tactcal warfare concepts, whilst hobby wise moved into the simulations design area. Gave lectures at the RMC for a number of years. So history, and military history was a bread an butter issue for me, although of late i have not had to rely on its for an income....not enough money in it for that.


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## Edgar Brooks (Aug 26, 2011)

Started school in 1945, and, during the 1950s was taken to the (fairly) local Battle of Britain day, at Benson airfield. One year we were treated to a "dogfight" between a Spitfire and Hurricane, which landed afterwards, and we were allowed to get up close to them after they'd been refuelled (crowds tended to be better-behaved in those days.) We were shooed away, to allow them to take off, and were then treated to the Spitfire looping, straight from take off. I was told, years later, that this was Jeffrey Quill's signature departure, and the Hurricane was probably flown by Beamont. It left me with a love of the Spitfire, which has never diminished.
Edgar


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## BikerBabe (Aug 26, 2011)

Hey, good idea FF, it's interesting to read how you guys got interested in history.  

As for me, I guess I've been interested ever since I started in school.
Some of my favourite lessons were the history lessons, and later learning that my own grandfather was a chief radio operator aboard one of the Royal Danish Navy's inspection ships during the german occupation of Denmark in WW2, has only made me more interested, together with meeting my then-to-be colleague, Poul Fjeldgård, who was one of the approx. 2000 danish police officers, who were sent off to the concentration camp of Buchenwald in WW2, and hearing his story was a wonderful, fascinating and horrifying way of learning more about KZ camp life - or lack of same.
Poul was an excellent storyteller, and he loved to talk about what he and others had experienced, so I'm grateful for having worked with and gotten to know him.







Poul and me at the museum, Oct. 13th, 2005.

Apart from that, I started getting interested in WW2 aviation, shortly before I went to my first airshow in 2002.
Watching one of the Hannas fly their Spitfire just plain hit home, and I've been interested ever since. 
But I can't remember how I got interested in the german WW2 pilots.
Damn, I'm getting old.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 26, 2011)

History in general has been a love of mine since I was a little child. I honesty can not remember a single thing that gave me a taste for it, I just always loved it. WW2 history obviously left a mark on me as I grew up in Europe. I believe the fact that it was during the Cold War helped fuel my desire to learn more about WW2 as I believe it was a direct result of the conflict. 

If I did have to pick a single piece of history that I am most fond of witnessing it would be being in Berlin for the fall of the wall.


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## Thorlifter (Aug 26, 2011)

I liked watching the war films with my dad when I was little, but the thing that lit the spark in me watching "Baa Baa Black Sheep". From that time on, I've been hooked.


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## javlin (Aug 26, 2011)

Military family started it I guess.My father was a radio operator on a B-17 in the first group to actually arrive in England.He use to tell me about the fun stuff that happened not much about the horrors.I use to love reading about Egypt,dinosaurs and then military history(civil war still an interest).I actually wanted to be an archelogists till about 17 or so.Things waned after that for some years till I went back to school and had to pick a subject to right a paper on in English"The Titanic" it started all over again.When you look at that event and who died how did that change the world?Many rich,powerful and important people perished that night?At this time I started building again after a 15 year lapse.I still like reading about the Civil War and older battles they can teach good tactics or lets say tactics that are easier to see.When I read of big conflicts(WWII) its hard to keep the whole map in one's mind.A good read of the Civil War goes Fredricksburg,Chancellorville(both by Sears) then Gettysburg.Stonewall's in and around in Chancellorville on the Union is a hoot and then thier was a classic pincher movement at Fredricksburg developing at night with a Union retreat that would of smashed Meades(?) army.


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## parsifal (Aug 27, 2011)

Some very intersting stories here guys...keep it coming


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## B-17engineer (Aug 27, 2011)

Hm, I want to say in 2003 or 2004 my dad decided to take us down to World War II weekend in Reading, Pennsylvania and I was just fascinated by the planes, especially the Lancaster and B-17.


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## javlin (Aug 27, 2011)

Well one battle I would love to have a good read on just it is "The Battle of Cold Harbor" an excerpt from Wikpedia....

The Battle of Cold Harbor was fought from May 31 to June 12, 1864 (with the most significant fighting occurring on June 3). It was one of the final battles of Union Lt. Gen. Ulysses S. Grant's Overland Campaign during the American Civil War, and is remembered as one of American history's bloodiest, most lopsided battles. Thousands of Union soldiers were killed or wounded in a hopeless frontal assault against the fortified positions of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee's army.

I do not remember which battle it was wether Fredricksburg or Chancelorville but Jeb Stuart was quite the comedian.JB was the eyes and ears for Lee with his calvary and the Southern Calvary early in the war were much much better than the Unions.Well he was out doing recon up around the Potomac and requisitioned some Union supplies at a communication site w/telegraph.Now all these guys have served together in West Point and Mexico and now are on opposite sides of course but still treat each other with formalities,integrity and honor.Will JB gets a wild hair and after the requisition sends a telegragh back to Washington to have more supplies on hand next time and some better looking horses.Needless to say Lincoln was pissed along with his staff.


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## brucejscott (Aug 27, 2011)

My dad was Army ROTC and an advisor in Vietnam so every night it was news from SEA ( even took precidence over Star Trek ) and color commentary from dad. Most of the books I learned to read on were historical texts, so to me, it seemed to be the way kids just grew up. After dad went to work for the government we never stayed in any one town for more than two years so I never had friends long enough to learn that most kids read comic books and not history. No complaints though, I kick ass at Jeopardy.


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## Night Fighter Nut (Aug 28, 2011)

I've always enjoyed history. I remember my Grampa telling about when he serviced ships during WWII. He was one of the ones who worked on the Queen Mary. He told us once how he found a message written in a rope locker about a major accident that happened but was never mentioned because of the war. The message recounted how a Canadian Distroyer was cut in half by the Queen Mary when she cut across the Queen Mary's bow. The Captain of the distroyer didn't realize how fast the Queen Mary was. Everyone was under orders not to ever talk about the accident but someone couldn't keep it to themselves so they wrote the whole story about it in the rope locker when she was in for repairs. Interesting.


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## Readie (Aug 29, 2011)

Good thread.
I am a child of the mid 1950's and the 'wars' were always a part of my formative years.
My love of history started with my Grandad's WW1 stories, although I now know that they were somewhat abridged, my grandparents and parents recollection of the inter-war years and how they saw the threat Nazi Germany posed.
After the slaughter of WW1 I believe that the average Brit in 1938 just wanted Hitler to go away.
My childhood walks with my Dad always turned to his time in the 8th army in North Africa Italy, his capture and subsequent treatment by the German army. My Mother would reminisce about RAF fighter command, Manston and the multi national force the RAF became in WW2.
My Dad was always able to find humour in his experiences...even Mount Casino. It was only at the end of his life in 1992 that the real bitterness emerged.
My toys consisted of weapons, my reading material was albums like Eagle and Biggles. I believed all I was told and read and that to be English was the best thing since sliced bread.
My wife's parents were children in WW2 and are a fount of knowledge about evacuation, the blitz, the sheer terror and bitterness about their Plymouth getting bombed flat.
Then there is the Jewish family connection, but that is not up for discussion on this forum as its too political.
My children's school are big on modern history and my son is immensely proud of his family history, pictures and medals to hold and to believe in.
I have kept my real thoughts to myself and delivered the pc view of WW2 that is appropriate in 2011 and for the new generation.
Be proud, know the facts, enjoy your freedom but... trust has to be earned.
Cheers
John


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 29, 2011)

It is only political if you make it...

As for the PC view, that is your choice as well.


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## Readie (Aug 30, 2011)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> It is only political if you make it...
> 
> As for the PC view, that is your choice as well.



Yes Chris it is.


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## parsifal (Aug 30, 2011)

john

A agree with Adler, share it if you think it appropriate. Your post reminded me of my family connections as well.

My grandad on my fathers side was a gallipoli vet. He talked only a little about his wartime experiences, and suffered post event stress disorder ( or whatever its called). But he used to talk pretty honestly about the horrors of that place, for example one man lasting all of five minutes in the trenches. Wanted to see a turk, was told, keep your head down, said he just wanted to have a quick look over the top...hed be okay. Was told again, keep your head down, ducked up, and came back seconds later with a bullet between his eyes. 

Talked about the Gurkhas. Were originally employed as carriers and runners because their size, were not thought adequate material by the british HC. Begged the Australians to let them fight, so were given their Kukris and allowed to spearhead a night attack. Anyone who knows the Gurkhas knows that they are dangerous with the Kukris....there were dead and screaming turks everywhere that night, and the Gurkhas werent used as porters after that

My stepfather was a German who served in the wehrmacht and was decorated three times, including the Iron Cross. He was a machine gunner serving at first in the 373 Infantry Division, but moved around. Wore out a pair of boots just getting to the front. His no2 was a big Ukrainain Hiwi that supposedly were forbidden to fight. In reality perhaps a third of the german frontline troops on the eastern Front by 1942 were Hiwis, and they fought alongside the Germans like regular soldiers. big fights used to break out with the SS every time they tried to round up these Russians. not all Germans were russian haters. My dad was the number 2 on the gun until 6 november 1942. On that day the no1 was shot and killed by a sniper. from that day my father became the gunner, but three days later he was hit too. The big Ukraininan hiwi, stood up, Mg42 under his arm, shot the sniper (how, i dont know), picked up my Dad, machine gun, and ammo, in one go and walked out of that Maelstrom. He dropped Max at the forward dressing station, and just kept walking. He was never seen again, didnt say a word. 

My stepfather is the only german I know of that era who openly admits german war guilt, and how wrong they and Hitler were. He is the only german i know that doesnt try to get out of gaol by blaming it all on Hitler. He is the only German i know that admits the german populace knew what was really happening to the Jews, rather than try this lame arsed excuse "we didnt know". He says, "of course we knew...my mother sheltered an entire family, gave them food and protection for the entire war....". He doesnt try to say he didnt support hitler. He admits it, then admits he was wrong to do so....a refreshing change from the usual claptrap we hear. 

My second wife is Russian, and before he died, i met her grandfather. A siberian cavalryman that served under Zhukov against the japanese in 1939, and again under Zhukov in front of moscow. He would not talk much about the war. Too painful for him. If we watched docos on the war he would cry, but i never doubted the mans courage or resolve or his ability as a soldier. He had eyes that were like lasers, they would stare coldly right through you. You knew you were dealing with a real man, right till the end

I was trained and served under men who had experience in Malaya and Vietnam. They taught me the value of mateship, never leave a comrade behind, alive or dead. Thankfully i never had to test that theory, but I was taught by the best in my opinion. 

Just a few thoughts to show you John you are not alone.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 31, 2011)

parsifal said:


> My stepfather is the only german I know of that era who openly admits german war guilt, and how wrong they and Hitler were. He is the only german i know that doesnt try to get out of gaol by blaming it all on Hitler. He is the only German i know that admits the german populace knew what was really happening to the Jews, rather than try this lame arsed excuse "we didnt know". He says, "of course we knew...my mother sheltered an entire family, gave them food and protection for the entire war....". He doesnt try to say he didnt support hitler. He admits it, then admits he was wrong to do so....a refreshing change from the usual claptrap we hear.



I have actually met a fair share of them believe it or not. Not as many as their should be, but quite a few of them. Especially during my discussions with Afrika Korps veterans back in the mid/late 90s. 

My Grandfather for instance was very open about it. He always stated he was not shameful of being a German or serving in the Wehrmacht (he was a military surgeon who served on the front), but he was shameful of what his country did during that time. I recall his diary saying something of the likes about going to hell. He was very open about the fact that Hitler was a mistake and wrong. He was however not shameful of what post war Germany had become. I feel that the post war Germans (or even those that were children during those terrible times) can be proud of that as well. They can hold their heads up high, and I have told that to John as well. 

John discussing your Jewish family or herritage is not political and can be discussed whenever you feel like it. Did you know that Eric is Jewish? He never has a problem discussing it, and never has problems from other members for it. Nor do you have to be PC about it. If you read through enough threads you will see that being PC about any topic is a quick way to get a smack down by the forum membership.


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## parsifal (Aug 31, 2011)

I am sure there were many Germans who opposed what happened, many that supported hitler then relaized the mistake, and I know that Germany is a completely different place today. No disrespect was intended by what I said, Chris, just a statrement about how I view my stepfather.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 31, 2011)

parsifal said:


> I am sure there were many Germans who opposed what happened, many that supported hitler then relaized the mistake, and I know that Germany is a completely different place today. No disrespect was intended by what I said, Chris, just a statrement about how I view my stepfather.



None was taken my friend, mine was a general statement and nothing more.


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## Ferdinand Foch (Aug 31, 2011)

Hey everyone! Great stories! Keep 'em coming. Sorry about not being on, lost power for a few days at my house (and were still without power). Up at college now. Parsifal, I never knew that. Thank you for sharing. Everyone's stories are great. Actually, I just found out something about my late Uncle Gene. My grandpa told me that he was in Korea, and thought that he won three purple hearts. What he actually found out after his death was that his brother had won two Bronze Stars during the Pusan defense, before the Inchon Landings. He originally wasn't qualified to fight (he had bad eyes), and I believe was a clerk, or something to that effect. But, when Pusan was attack, all non-combatants were told to form up, while one in ten were selected to go up to the front lines. He happened to be one of those picked. 
I can't tell you the circumstances on how he won these medals-my grandpa doesn't know. Uncle Gene did tell his family later though that the times he was most scared were just before the Chinese launched their human wave assaults (after they invaded Korea, of course). I believe he said that there was an eerie silence, but you know that they were out there. Then they would scream all at once when they attack. He said that no matter how many his fellow soldiers shot down, there was someone else to take that man's place. That's what scared him the most.


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## Mustang nut (Aug 31, 2011)

The old boy who I am staying with hates Adolf with a vengeance. His father lost two brothers in the dying days of the first world war, he was then conscripted into the Volks sturm towards the end of the second and had both legs blown off below the knee leaving his wife to run the farm the best way she could.

I used to stay with a family in Dusseldorf, they still live in the house that had its roof and windows blown off, there was never a hint of malice in the old guy even though it was certainly an RAF bomber that did it.

My first taste of history was watching "all our yesterdays" a documentary series about the first world war with my father on sunday afternoons.

My first taste outside of home was probably walking around the walls of York looking at the Minster and cliffords tower.


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## otftch (Aug 31, 2011)

Dad was an aircraft mechanic in the Navy. The first book I read by myself was an electrical test book that was he was studying for the chief's test. Just kind of snowballed rom there.
Ed


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## Readie (Aug 31, 2011)

Michael, Thanks for sharing your history.
My paternal Grandfather and his brothers emigrated to Australia in 1912, and joined the Au Army in 1914, went to Gallipoli, were wounded, recovered and ended up in France where only my Grandfather survived.
The Au war records are fascinating to look through, all beautifully preserved. The recruitment, training, medical, battle reports etc. I have to hand it to the Aussie’s that preserving the past is better done than here.

Chris, I am not PC at all, In fact I much prefer plain speaking. Anyway, as far as my lad is concerned I feel he needs a factual (as opposed to an emotional) understanding of WW2 in particular, so he can begin to understand why so many died. As we have said in pm’s it was a long time ago, what’s done is done and its time to move on for the new generation of young Europeans.

On a lighter note, I remember that most of my teachers were WW2 vets and one huge tech teacher was a fighter pilot…who he ever fitted into a fighter I’ll never know. My PE master was an ex marine who had a trademark chilly stare for any stroppy teenager and suitable punishment to boot. No behaviour issues in his class.

After a childhood of war stories I have wondered whether my brother and I have been left feeling that we missed out on something by not ‘going to war’. This may sound an odd thing to say, but I reckon a lot of the post war generation feel a little of this angst.

Cheers
John


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## mikewint (Aug 31, 2011)

I’m late to this thread, with the move and the storm, I’ve spent all of my time with the house and dock but this is a REALLY great discussion. I envy all your experiences and family history.
Initially, starting in the ‘50s, I never much cared for schoolbook history until I discovered the Egyptians on a trip to the Museum of Natural History. I read everything I could get my hands on and became quite the little expert on ancient Egyptian history. It was here that I discovered how history could be manipulated by the powerful. Ramesses II’s version of the Battle of Kadesh claimed a great Egyptian victory which was in all the history books. Then archeologists discovered Hittite records where Muwatalli claimed a great Hittite victory in the same battle. My introduction into propaganda.
As a very young child, my grandparents had a man living with them. They called him “the kiaser” I never knew his actual name but I was fascinated by his old helmet. Years later I realized it was a pickelhaube. Why he was living with them or what his relationship was with them I never found out. My Dad had feet like a duck and was exempt from WWII. I did have 3 uncles in WWII one in the Navy and two in the Marines. The two in the Marines were KIA, one on Iwo and another on Guadalcanal. The Navy uncle survived but would never discuss his experiences other than his total and complete hatred of anything Japanese. 
My real love of history, started in college where one of my professors was a Lincoln scholar. For the first time in my life I learned that Lincoln was not a saint perched on a pedestal but a real man with all the faults of a real man.
Next came Vietnam and my personal experiences there which I also refused to discuss with anyone for over 30 years. My wife knew some of it but there were many things I withheld even from her. To this day, my children now nothing of my time in Vietnam. Over the last 6 years I have shared some of this with students in local high schools and I have begun to do presentations at several other schools. I know first hand how the Vietnam I personally knew differed from its portrayal by the news media in the US.
My conclusions are: History is a set of lies agreed upon by the victor and History would be a wonderful thing - if only it were true.


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## pbfoot (Aug 31, 2011)

Lived near Montreal as a young kid in the early 60's in a small town , the local regiment Royal Rifles of Canada were in Hong Kong in 41 and lots of neighbours were survivors of life as japanese POW's , not a good place for a Toyota Dealer , the other Regiment was in Dieppe the Fusilers Mount Royal so there were enough vets around to remind you of History , my first historic event was the Cuban Missle Crisis , lived near NORAD fighter base and lots of neighbours were in the RCAF And USAF , can remember the military families had packed their cars for a quick move to the north in case the balloon went up


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## Readie (Aug 31, 2011)

mikewint said:


> I’
> Next came Vietnam ...



Hello Mike,
Vietnam is a sensitive subject in Australia too. I say this as I grew up in Melbourne and the army cadets at my school was all about joining the Au army and going to Vietnam. 
My school year was one year too young to actually go but, no one who did go will discuss it or those who didn't come home.
The British Army has events that are not up for discussion like Northern Ireland.
Its a shame as people who study history would love to know the truth.
Regards
John


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## mikewint (Aug 31, 2011)

John, It was my honor and privilege to work with several Aussie groups and let me state without any hesitation whatever that the Diggers were among the toughest troops in country. One of my finest souvenirs is a Digger hat with the raised side brim.
As to truth, I don't know, I saw my little piece of the puzzle and I know how the US news media slanted their reporting of many events, like the Tet-offensive for example


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## Readie (Sep 1, 2011)

mikewint said:


> John, It was my honor and privilege to work with several Aussie groups and let me state without any hesitation whatever that the Diggers were among the toughest troops in country. One of my finest souvenirs is a Digger hat with the raised side brim.
> As to truth, I don't know, I saw my little piece of the puzzle and I know how the US news media slanted their reporting of many events, like the Tet-offensive for example



Mike, The Aussies take pride in being tough troops, rightly so when you look at the battle honours. ANZAC day is a day for remembering.
John


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## parsifal (Sep 1, 2011)

Most countries have a veterans day of one sort or another, but usually its a day that marks some kind of victory. Our main veterans day marks the start of a campaign, that in reality was a disastrous defeat. Perhaps a reminder that wars and reputations and all that costs blood and lives.

Nothin worth dying for is cheap


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## mikewint (Sep 1, 2011)

Parsifal, could not agree with you more however sometimes the dying purchases nothing and is a total waste of human life. The Aussie's have ANZAC Day, 25 April, whose origin lies in the disastrous and totally unnecessary Gallipoli campaign, Charge of the Light Brigade, Pickett's charge at Gettysburg, and hundreds more. As to Vietnam over 58,000 American troops KIA not to mention all the MIAs not on the wall so we could pick up our bat and ball and go home.
I'll shut-up now or I'll get political. Dying for something is better than living for nothing. Unfortunately those in charge often reverse it.


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## parsifal (Sep 1, 2011)

Best deal Mike, in my book is to live for something. Us Aussies dont like dying that much. i guess most people have that mindset. i never killed anybody, thankfully, but there were a few times in my life when I hoped the other guy thought what i just said, if you know what i mean


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## evangilder (Sep 1, 2011)

My family history is full of farmers and warriors (often both when the country called, dropping the plow for a rifle). I spent 10 of my growing up years in Dayton Ohio, back when NCR and Wright Patterson were the main employers. My father took me, as a young child to see the final landing of the XB-70 and I was hooked. I spent many a weekend at the Air Force Museum, going back to the days it was in old hangars. Of course, growing up in Dayton, I also got to see the Wright Bicycle Shop in Carillon Park and several Dayton Air Fairs. I had 2 uncles that served in the Pacific in WWII, cousins in Vietnam, Grenada, and both Gulf Wars. I was about 15 when we moved to Wisconsin and I got to spend time in the EAA Museum, first in Milwaukee and later in Osh Kosh. After spending that much time around historic items, you meet some of the characters that survived those things and get to meet some people with amazing stories. When I was a teenager, we would go deer hunting in Antigo, Wisconsin. One morning, at breakfast, our hunting buddy introduced us to an older gentleman who ran a business locally. My step-dad was floored after we left the restaurant. He asked me "Do you know who that was?". I had no idea. The man was Doc Bradley, one of the Iwo flag raisers. I still get goose-bumps thinking about it.

The things you witness yourself will all be things to tell your kids and grand-kids about. My grandmother died about 15 years ago. She was born before cars, airplanes and all kinds of things. The stories she told about the past and the family history are golden. Her father and three of her brothers opened the first Ford dealership in Indiana. We have photos of some of those Model As on the farm in Clear Creek. She told stories of her family moving from Pennsylvania to Indiana in a covered wagon! I used to laugh, because she would say "I don't know how they did it. I can't survive without my microwave"!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 1, 2011)

If we are talking about history that we witnissed ourselves, I guess the two that affected me the most were the fall of the Berlin Wall. I was in Berlin when that historic event was taking place, and then after that would have to be the war in Iraq. I spent 12 months in that country taking part in it myself.


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## mikewint (Sep 1, 2011)

Evan, cannot begin to tell you how many time I have wished to be able to go back in time and talk to my grandparents and this time actually LISTEN to their stories. 
Alder, first hand witnessed history is probably the closest to the real truth but then it is a very microscopic view. Written histories generally are written with a point of view and tend to shade events and people to the writers point of view. Historical figures also get "bigger than life" and they become chimeras of themselves.


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## tyrodtom (Sep 1, 2011)

I'm from the same town as U-2 pilot Francis Gary Powers. I went to the same church as his father, mother, grandmother, and 3 of his sisters.
I can remember the day in early May 1960, when his family was informed that he was missing. It was at a Wedesday church service ( called Bible study ) when they asked the members to pray for Francis. Francis was almost 20 years older than me, so i'd hardly seen him. Though my oldest brother went to school with him.


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## Readie (Sep 2, 2011)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> If we are talking about history that we witnissed ourselves, I guess the two that affected me the most were the fall of the Berlin Wall. I was in Berlin when that historic event was taking place.



A big moment in history as the Soviet threat crumbled before our eyes.
If 'witnessing' includes TV coverage, then I would say 1969 with the lunar landing, 1989 with the Berlin wall and 2001 with 9/11.Most people can say exactly where they were on that momentous day when the world changed forever.
Cheers
John


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 2, 2011)

Two moments that I witnessed on TV that strongly remembering were the Challenger Explosion and 9-11. I remember being on top of my aircraft at the hanger and being told to get in formation, then later in the chow hall watching the video of the towers being hit and being put on alert. Terrible day.


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## Readie (Sep 2, 2011)

There are so many, now I think of it. The 'Herald of Free Enterprise' was appalling too.


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## mikewint (Sep 2, 2011)

I can remember listening to newscasts on the radio about the Korean War. I would then arrange my toy soldiers/tanks/trucks/etc. according to what I had heard and create my own battle.
I remember News coverage of the Bay of Pigs, Kennedy's TV announcement of the U-2 photos of missiles in Cuba and the blockade announcement followed by the Crisis when US warships confronted a soviet ship on the high seas. Our neighbors gathered together to watch TV newscasts that night. We went outside to see if Soviet bombers were overhead already
I was at the U of I in 1961, introduced to forced ROTC It was here that I met Tom Hayden who was forming SPU (Student Peace Union) groups on major campuses. I quickly joined and when not being forced to march up and down the Quad, picketed the other groups as they were marching. When SPU groups across the country joined together to form the SDS (Students for a Democratic Society) I became a founding member and became involved in many Peace Demonstrations all of which brought me to the attention of my local Draft Board who revoked my 2-S (Student Deferral). Uncle Sam now wanted me!
Drafted into the Army I managed to get into Medic Training, I had been pre-Med at U of I and Medics don't have to shoot anyone and being good guys no one would shoot at the Medic, right???
12:30 PM (CST), Friday, 22 Nov, I was in a university classroom. When the class ended a friend was waiting in tears, she informed me that someone had shot the President. We all headed for the parking lot to get in cars and turn on the radio to hear the "President is dead" announcement at 1:33 PM (CST)
Vietnam War......
I remember the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago. I was there as part of a delegation from the U of I and Vietnam Veterans Against the War in support of Sen. Eugene McCarthy. We were based at the Conrad Hilton Hotel and as such were in the middle of the riots. Several of us formed medical squads and pulled kids with smashed in heads off the street into the foyer of the Hilton. While I was in the street attempting to close a serious head wound on a young girl one of Chicago’s Finest tried to smash my head in. Unfortunately for him and his partner I was not a kid and SF training kicked in.
I was in McCarthy’s room when an entire squad of Chicago’s finest broke down the door and “tossed the place” claiming that rock had been thrown from the windows (which were sealed and could not be opened).
9 Sept Justice Dept calls a grand jury to look into conspiracy charges against the leaders of eight of the main protest groups involved. Att Gen Ramsey Clark (LBJ) declined to push the indictments stating publically that the Chicago Police had caused the riots. 
20 Mar 1969 new Att Gen John Mitchell (Nixon) pushes through 8 indictments against the eight leaders for conspiracy to violate the 1968 Civil-Rights act. A totally ridicules charge for those eight. Anyone who knew them at all knew that they could not have conspired to whistle Dixie together.
24 Sept 1969 the Chicago Eight trial begins. I managed to get into the courtroom several times and saw Bobby Seale’s (Black Panther Party) antics and his eventual gagging and chaining to a chair 
18 Feb 1970 the trial ends with verdicts of Not Guilty for all defendants on Conspiracy but Guilty of crossing state lines to cause a riot: a fine of $5000 and 5 years in prison. 
4 May 1970 I hear about the Kent State shootings (four KIA and nine WIA) in Kent Ohio unable to believe that US troops would fire live rounds at US children I left for Ohio. I arrived in the early AM 5 May where blood stain were still clearly present. A total of 67 rounds had be fired randomly into a crowd of children. None of the four killed had been involved in the protest and none had any type of weapon, in fact one had been in ROTC.
In total shock, I pack everything I own on my motorcycle and hit the road, eventually winding up in Canada.
21 Nov 1972 I hear that the Court of Appeals has reversed the convictions of the Chicago Seven.
Returning to the US in Dec of 1973 I re-enroll at U of I to finish my masters degree.
May 1973 I receive a phone call from my high school sweetheart (dumped me when I was in Vietnam as a “baby Killer”). We talk and meet and marry in July. I bury ALL of the above in the deepest hole in my head and we NEVER speak of it again.


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## RabidAlien (Sep 3, 2011)

Thanks for sharing that, Mike. Never be ashamed of standing up for your convictions. Remember...simply because you woke up today, you've already pissed someone off. No need to go around trying to please everyone else!


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## Readie (Sep 3, 2011)

RabidAlien said:


> Thanks for sharing that, Mike. Never be ashamed of standing up for your convictions. Remember...simply because you woke up today, you've already pissed someone off. No need to go around trying to please everyone else!



Yep. you are on the money there. Life is too short.


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## parsifal (Sep 7, 2011)

For me, a personal significant day was 19 March 1980, the day I received my posting to the carrier. Was already a trainee PWO at that time, though i knew basically nothing. 

Ship was in refit at the time, emerging from the dock in July. Quickly worked up and deployed to the Indian Ocean with the biggest RAN pecetime deployment to the Indian Ocean since the war...the carrier, five destroyers, an oiler and a submarine. What is not generally known is that we did not load training ammunition, it was a live ammo load out. Enroute to the fleet base in Cockburn sound we were advised that we would be on active deployment, a counter to Soviet pressur then being placed on Pakistan. At that time we were told ther were no US carriers in the region, but we would be receiving AEW and LR recon support from the American base at Diego Garcia. There were doubts at that time as to what India was doing 

As a trainee, all sorts of fears and imagination driven thoughts went through my head. In the end it all came to nothing, but at the time it was real enough. We thought we were heading into action. 

Three years later I was discharged, medically unfit, following a deployment to antarctica. i have since had more significant changes in my life, but that 4 months deployment was an exciting time. I can still remember the tension as we tracked Soviet ships, submarines and aircraft that were all around us at that time. Sometimes we thought we were up for it, ther times we could see the funny side of things.

This isnt world shattering history, but it was personal life changing events. I came out of that experience a different man....not worse, or scarred or bitter, just different.


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