# Post-War Racers?



## gjs238 (Dec 22, 2011)

Which planes were the most popular and "best" post-war racers?
All countries included.
Which fighters weren't used for post-war racing?
Does this success, or lack of success, reflect upon their war performance?


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## Shortround6 (Dec 22, 2011)

Since the air races were held in the US the early period of air racing used exclusively US planes. From 1946 to 1950. The Planes were available cheap as war surplus and many pilots/teams were operating on a shoe string. Importing aircraft just wasn't an economical proposition. Going fast at near sea level and being able to do a 2-3 G turn were the only real requirements and so show almost no indication of how they would have performed as war planes. For instance Charlie Tucker is supposed to have admitted (after the races were over) that his clipped wing P-63 lost as much ground in the turns due to the high wing loading/low aspect ratio as he gained on the straight away's due to lower drag. 

Try Society of Air Race historian

For the early races. By the time the races were restarted in the 60s and a few British planes became available, Really cheap surplus planes and parts were becoming a thing of the past ( some 1946 race pilots bought their planes using just some of their mustering out pay). Getting race worthy engines pretty much limited teams to engines that had continued on into the 1950s as either still serving military engines or as commercial engines.


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## renrich (Dec 23, 2011)

Obviously the P51 is the most popular air racer. Right after the war there were a lot of AC tried in air races. P63s, P38s, Corsairs, some twin engined AC. The Corsairs were pretty successful but I believe the last Corsair to race was the "Super Corsair" and it caught on fire and crashed a few years ago. I saw it race in about 1992(?) There was even a Yak in that race but it failed to get started. Bearcats perhaps are the second most popular racer of the warbirds. Almost forgot, the Sea Fury has been raced a lot. I would think it is the most popular non-American AC.


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## bobbysocks (Dec 24, 2011)

P-39Qs had a fair following. Jack Woolams was lost in one during a test run prior to the cleveland air race in 1946. Woolam was a colorful character and worth reading about. he once wore a gorilla mask with a derby hat and rubber cigar during a flight to freak out a pilot in a jet....


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 25, 2011)

That's hysterical!

Wouldn't the F8F Bearcar fall into this discussion as well?


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## Messy1 (Dec 27, 2011)

I wonder if the Bearcat was as readily available as some of the older designs were?


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## Piper106 (Dec 27, 2011)

The F8F Bearcat was still on active duty and was not available via surplus sale to civilians for the 1946 to 1949 Cleveland air race period. 

The F8F was available to civilians for the resumption of air racing in 1964. 

Piper106


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## gjs238 (Dec 27, 2011)

Would have been interesting to see a Bf-109 of Fw-190 in those races.
Or Spitfire, Spiteful, Tempest or Typhoon for that matter.


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## chris mcmillin (Dec 28, 2011)

I always thought that a PR34 Mosquito would've been a great airplane to fly in the Bendix cross country race. High altitude, high speed, non-stop. It took about 800 gallons for a Mustang to race the distance non-stop so a lot of work would have to be get the additional fuel load required for a wide open, competitive race. 

Mustangs dominated the post-war Bendix, but the only reason that one won the Thompson was that the front runner F2G's and P-39 "KF-1" dropped out in 1948. However, the Mustang that did win in that race was highly modified with a low altitude Packard 225 from Canadian stocks, with water injection and clipped wings.

P-39 Cobra II was first in qualifying, and the Thompson race, in 1946 at 408 and 373 respectively. It was the number 3 qualifier in 1947 and placed third at 384 against the F2G's of Cook Cleland's team. It was first qualifier again as "KF-1" qualifying at 418mph and was running first until the 19th lap at laps of up to 413 mph when a vapor lock caused an engine failure and Chuck Brown landed deadstick. Pretty good performance from the little fighter, because it had great big horsepower from late model Allison's over-revving to 2000 plus HP and a small frontal area/wetted area airframe that was lighter than all others. In 1946 and 1948 it lead from the start due to it's super acceleration from the race-horse standing start; even it's landing gear retraction was souped up being rewired from 24 to 36 volts for a 5 second retraction time!

In 1948 all nations types were allowed and Mosquito's were entered in 1948 and 49. The Bendix featured Jesse Stallings flying a MK25, Don McVickar entered but experienced an engine failure enroute to Long Beach, CA for the start. In 1949 a Spitfire MkXIV low back was entered in the Thompson and was qualified for the alternate for the classic. It did compete in the Sohio I think. Don Bussard bought and entered the MK25 Mossie from Jesse Stallings and raced it again in the Bendix.

The idea of British ships for me was, of all things, the Typhoon for the Thompson! Just because my Dad likes them. The idea of a guy with a few bucks heading over to England and buying a couple of Spiteful's with low altitude engines (and a couple of spares) and a nicely overhauled Mk 21 or Seafire 46 out of surplus would be really neat. Looking for a little professional help from experts in the field in post-war England, a Rolls expert, DH and Supermarine mechs, and some unofficial support for the effort by affording some space and cover for the ships preparation by say, DH or Vickers or Hawker would've probably been possible. These single engined ships would be crated and shipped over to the US.

A nicely overhauled surplus PR34 Mossie for the Bendix would be ferried over the North Atlantic. I like PRU Blue for the Mossie.
Dad's car-door Typhoon (engine and prop from a Tempest Mk6 and wings outer panels shortened a bay or two with the round tips refitted) a nice blue as well. I bet she'd do 400 on the straights.
I like red and cream (it was the forties) so a nicely executed four-color scheme based on red and cream would be my Spiteful/Spitfire/Seafire team colors. My Spiteful would have a boil-off cooling system for coolant and oil, and enough ADI for the whole of the race at 2500 hp incorporating slightly shortened blades. Figuring a 425 qualifying speed and a 400 mph winning speed after shadowing the F2G of Cook Cleland until the end and racing him wide open the last two laps to the finish.

Thanks for the fun filled fantasy, guys! Great topic.

Chris...


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## GregP (Dec 29, 2011)

Actually, Jack Woolams was the pilot of the jet. The USA's first jet was the Bell XP-59A Airacomet. I know this becuase we are resotring a Bell YP-59A Airacomet to flight status at this time and have researched it quite extensively. It is CLOSE to flying!

Anyway, the jets were operating out of Rodgers Dry Lake (now Edwards Air Force Base) and there was a P-38 base at the other end of the lake bed. Naturally, some P-38 pilots saw the jet being tested and reported it. That got back to the jet guys and they needed to do something to preserve secrecy.

Jack went into Hollywood and bought a gorilla mask, a bolo hat, and two cigars, came back, and went flying. He searched for and found some P-38 pilots. He flew up beside them and waved. Naturally, they repported they had seen an aircaft with no propeller , flown by a gorilla wearing a bolo hat and smoking a cigar.

The flight surgeon gave them the choice to reporting the event and being declared insane and discarged ot shutting up.

They shut up.

So, after that, they saw the jet but didn't report it.

Altogether a unique bit of experimental flying lore, but true.

All the members of our team have bolo hats and we have one gorilla mask and a fake wood propeller,. just lijke the original. When we do the "first flight" Steve Hinton will probably not wear the gorilla mask, but he probably will for the tow to the flight line during the next airshow after it flies!


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## GregP (Dec 29, 2011)

The most popular post-war racer, by FAR, is the P-51, as stated above.

Spitfires would have been interesting, but nobody seemed to want to modify one to be a racer. Nor any German aircraft, either. That is understadable because of so few DB engine (or Jumos, take your pick) that the few that were available were kept relatively stock instead of being "hot rodded" for racing. Japanese fighrters were very maneuverable, but were never particularly fast, so they weren't used either.

Most of the avaiable fighters were of US manufacture (in the USA, anyway), so it seemd only practical to use a US fightger. Of the avaiable aircraft, the P-51 and F8F were the fastest in stock form at LOW LEVEL. The P-47 was fast, but only at high altitude, and it's weight worked against it in the turns of the roughly pear-shaped race course. The Navy fighters, other than the Bearcat, were popular, but not as racers due to them not being particularly fast in stock form. The best starting place to a race winner was a very probably the fastest stock fighter.

So ... people tried the P-51. F8F, P-39, P-63, Sea Furies, and even some Russian Yaks. The most unusual was probably Clay lacey's Dogglas DC-7 that almost won a race! It didn't have to stop for fuel and was about as fast as a bearcat at low level! ANyway, the supply of foreign (to us) fighters in the USA has always been low, and that explains the P-51's racing popularity ... performance for the buck! Several years after WWII, you could buy one for $250!


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## Oskar the Pilot (Dec 29, 2011)

Well, I don't know much on this subject, but I've read and seen a lot of pictures of P-51s being used in racing. 

Now for a bit of personal opinion: I think they should have used the late ME 262 and possibly the Spitfire 24 or Spiteful. There weren't too many of either, but I can't imagine that they were thinking to use them in later wars...


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 29, 2011)

gjs238 said:


> Which planes were the most popular and "best" post-war racers?
> All countries included.
> Which fighters weren't used for post-war racing?
> Does this success, or lack of success, reflect upon their war performance?



Also consider the formulas, sport and jet class as well. Super sport racers are flying at speeds some of the warbirds did just a few years ago at half the horse power!!! There’s been a lot done in those other classes and although we admire and love WW2 fighters going around the pylons, true air race fans should appreciate ALL classes.

Current Reno course speed record holder, all classes


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## gjs238 (Dec 29, 2011)

Would be a hoot to see a Do 335 Pfeil in the pack!


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## GregP (Dec 29, 2011)

Hi FlyboyJ,

What kind of horsepower do you think they're getting in the Super Sport class?

I am under the impression they are getting ... maybe ... 600 HP from a Lycoming IO-580 tuned to the max.

Though a real Reno air race fan, I confess I have not paid a lot of attention to the technical rules of the jet class. I am under the impression they are limited to L-29 / 39 / 59 and the TS-11 somehow. Otherwise someone would show up in an F-86 or Hunter. I'll have to look into it out of interest now. 

Of course, they are also limited by the race course. It isn't practical to go too fast around an 8-mile race course because the g-forces would quickly get out of hand. I KNOW the race course is not circular but, if it were, and if the aircraft were flying at a constant velocity of 510 mph (443 knots), the steady angle of bank required would be 45° at 2.46 g all the way around the course. If we increase that to, say, 580 mph, the angle of steady bank angle becomes 73.7° at 7.40 g all the way around the circle.

Nobody wants 7.4 g for an 8-lap race, so I think the real speed limiting factor at Reno is the race course length and the g-force the pilots will put up with.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 29, 2011)

GregP said:


> Hi FlyboyJ,
> 
> What kind of horsepower do you think they're getting in the Super Sport class?
> 
> ...



Hi Greg!

You're right about the HP (1/4 of the unlimiteds) but they are hitting speeds in excess of 400 mph! 

http://www.nemesisnxt.com/kit/index.php

I guess in qualifying this year a Glasair went 396 mph! You're also correct about the Jet class. In the first years they had a MiG-17 compete and later modified the rules so the more popular and available jets can compete. (L29s and L39s). Weight and size became a factor during the 2007 season when Brad Morehouse was killed. You're right about the course however. If the jets are going to be allowed to go faster, the course will have to be expanded. I worked for Mike Mangold 2008, 09 and 10 and there were times he was pushing close to 6gs from what I remember.

In recent years the jet class was broken into Gold and Silver so "stock" jets can compete. The L39 became an easy favorite until modified L29s showed up with RR Viper or JT-12 engines. Since then they dominate the class.


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## Shortround6 (Dec 29, 2011)

Even in the late 40s the jets were in a class of their own. Air Force (or Navy) jets did not compete against the prop planes.


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## bobbysocks (Dec 29, 2011)

GregP...thats right...jack was the jet pilot. it was a long time since i first came across that. now you would think ( at least I would) that with canada being in the CW that spits and the like would be a bit more plentiful. the RCAF had to have been equiped with them after the war and once done with them would hussle them off as surplus. and the races werent limited to us citizens...so a canadian racer would have the opportunity to jump in with a brit ac.


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## pbfoot (Dec 29, 2011)

bobbysocks said:


> . the RCAF had to have been equiped with them after the war and once done with them would hussle them off as surplus. and the races werent limited to us citizens...so a canadian racer would have the opportunity to jump in with a brit ac.


pretty sure all the Spits were left in Europe they requipped with the P51 for Canada , I'm almost certain with the few the RCN had for the navy there never was a Canadian based Spit squadron P40's Hurricanes


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## bobbysocks (Dec 29, 2011)

REALLY? with 51s? i am surprised...thanks


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## pbfoot (Dec 29, 2011)

bobbysocks said:


> REALLY? with 51s? i am surprised...thanks


believe they were already dumping the Spits prior to end of war in favour of 51 because of range issue , 2 squadrons had already converted by end of war in ETO


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## MikeGazdik (Dec 29, 2011)

McMillian's post proves that the P-39 Airacobra is THE supreme fighter of the war!!!!!!!


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## GregP (Dec 30, 2011)

I think the P-39 would have been very good if Bell had been allowed to finish development of the turbocharged version.

The P-63 could give a Mustang all it could handle at any altitude with the Allison G-6 in it.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 30, 2011)

I liked the P-63D


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## chris mcmillin (Dec 31, 2011)

GregP said:


> Actually, Jack Woolams was the pilot of the jet. The USA's first jet was the Bell XP-59A Airacomet. I know this becuase we are resotring a Bell YP-59A Airacomet to flight status at this time and have researched it quite extensively. It is CLOSE to flying!
> 
> Anyway, the jets were operating out of Rodgers Dry Lake (now Edwards Air Force Base) and there was a P-38 base at the other end of the lake bed. Naturally, some P-38 pilots saw the jet being tested and reported it. That got back to the jet guys and they needed to do something to preserve secrecy.
> 
> ...




Yeah, yeah, Greg. Warbirds, warbirds... 
But why don't you have Steve or Johnny whip out some pictures of when the Museum actually OWNED Cobra II/KF-1!!!???
Chris...


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## GregP (Dec 31, 2011)

I've seen those pics and they are wonderful. I wish we still had a P-39 and a P-63.

Ah well ... Ed Maloney sold the Cobra to Mike Carol and he crashed it on a test flight. It happens. Unfortunate, but it does happen.

The Planes of Fame also had a Hellcat crash years back, and there was no reason for it. The flight should never have been attempted in the weather that was happening at the time.

But the pilot in command makes the decisions when he is flying it, not the museum or the aircraft owner. Suffice to say we have procedures in place that preclude flying our warbirds in any but severe clear VFR weather these days. There is NO reason to go IFR in a WWII warbird (other than for higher altitude fuel consumption reasons on a long flight) unless you get caught in it while airborn. If you do, then you should have landed at the first sign of deteroriating conditions. The instruments are reliable, but are older and the warbird does NOT have to BE somehwere at risk of both itself and the pilot. Better to miss or be late for an airshow than to crash trying to get there! Warbird glide performance does NOT mimick a Piper Cub.


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## chris mcmillin (Dec 31, 2011)

FlyBoyJ,
Nice looking, huh! Reminds me of Larry Havens Crazy Horse King Cobra. The elimination of the doors did a lot to stiffen the fuselage and allow more torque on the racer. Tipsy Miss was always breaking windshields and the like.

I thought when I first posted here that the thread was for the post-war 1946-1949 period. The later Reno period is a lot different with field elevation being one huge game changer.

Chris...


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## chris mcmillin (Dec 31, 2011)

GregP said:


> I've seen those pics and they are wonderful. I wish we still had a P-39 and a P-63.
> 
> Ah well ... Ed Maloney sold the Cobra to Mike Carol and he crashed it on a test flight. It happens. Unfortunate, but it does happen.
> 
> ...



What was great about Cobra II was that it was bellied in, recovered and put in a hangar for 15 years and not even really messed with. Still had the 1948 paint. Really cool.
Chris...


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 31, 2011)

chris mcmillin said:


> FlyBoyJ,
> Nice looking, huh! Reminds me of Larry Havens Crazy Horse King Cobra. The elimination of the doors did a lot to stiffen the fuselage and allow more torque on the racer. Tipsy Miss was always breaking windshields and the like.
> 
> I thought when I first posted here that the thread was for the post-war 1946-1949 period. The later Reno period is a lot different with field elevation being one huge game changer.
> ...


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## GregP (Jan 1, 2012)

Back in the old days, before the modern Reno, the P-63 flown by Tex Johnston had some interesting modifications. In the Thompson Trophy Race (I believe in 1946 or 1947), you were timed from liftoff ... so Tex installed 12-Volt motors in his 24-Volt system for the landing gear, and they snapped up in about 1/3 the time of a stock P-63 gear retraction ... but you ran the risk of a gear motor nurnout. Fortunately he didn't have one. But he was WAY ahead when he experienced a magneto failure and dropped ot of the race.

But he was kicking a$$ when he had the mag failure ...


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## rochie (Jan 1, 2012)

FLYBOYJ said:


>



cleaning it up for speed did nothing for its looks !


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## chris mcmillin (Jan 1, 2012)

Well, that's one reporters opinion. I think it looked absolutely awesome. Being at the 1971 race as an impressionable 12 year old, I can assure you it was many peoples favorite. 

One of the real disappointments of Larry Havens' P-63 was the fact that the intake air through the oil cooler inlets made a 270 degree turn to get into the downdraft carb of the Allison. It'd been better if they'd left the dorsal scoop on it for the Allison, because of the loss of ram pressure rise that would be beneficial to the Allison at the 5000 altitude of the Reno racing environment. Knowing this, the plan was to install a Merlin with it's updraft carb and better supercharging and Larry had bought one and Dave Zueschel was interested in hot-rodding one for it and adapting it to the airframe. The airplane went 369 over 10 laps which was OK for an Allison at that altitude, but it really needed the manifold pressure boost of at least the better air scoop as designed by Bell, and at best a better supercharger. The Merlin could've been the key to the power needed to get the King Cobra to competitive speeds (then about 420 mph). Unfortunately the airplane was lost to a test flight engine failure when an induction backfire pushed some ductwork to interfere with the primary flight controls and Larry bailed out over the Pacific just off of Los Angeles Harbor. The wing of this airplane was Charlie Tuckers '49 Thompson "Easter Egg" which was his '46 Bendix airplane also, several other components of the airplane were used too, as well as the Frank Singer racer. The airplane was a composite of post-war racer airframes and components collected by Darryl Greenamyer to attempt a world speed record. Greenamyer sold it off after becoming so successful with his Conquest 1 Bearcat.

I recall several stabilizers/elevators/rudders of various paint colors in a loft at Van Nuys during the storage of the King Cobra that was to become the Frank Borman/Square 1 restoration. Wonder if they were from that Greenamyer collection? 

An interesting racing fact is the performance of Charlie Tucker's nearly stock Allison engine powerplants in his modestly modified P-63's were the fastest at 393 and 394, of any of the King Cobra racers, post-war or modern racing era. We'll probably never see another Bell racer, as two of the post-war racers were destroyed when operated as warbirds, Tipsy Miss in 1990 and Frank Singers (composite) in 1994. Nevertheless they are interesting and make for a different looking layout than the typical P-51 racer.

Think of this, had Mike Carroll's Cobra II/KF-1 been test flown by Darryl Greenamyer or Lyle Shelton, and it survived until 1972, and Larry Havens airplane survived it's test flight pre-Reno 1972, there would have been four Bell racers at Reno in 1972. Cobra III, Crazy Horse, Mr. Mennen, and Tipsy Miss, two P-39's and 2 P-63's. That would've been a good looking racing ramp.


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## MikeGazdik (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh man that is one awesome Kingcobra!! And the history from McMillin is great!! I remember seeing 2 or 3 Airacobra Airframes either recovered in Russia or Alaska, back in the late 90's down at the Akron "MAPS" Museum. Wonder what happened to them. Someone on this site needs to hit the lotto, build up an Airacobra and get Gregp's shop to put in a killer Allison!!


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## rochie (Jan 3, 2012)

i always like the P-39/P-63's looks and the changes made sure make it look built for speed and well suited to the purpose and your right it still looks pretty awsome !


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## chris mcmillin (Jan 23, 2012)

GregP said:


> Back in the old days, before the modern Reno, the P-63 flown by Tex Johnston had some interesting modifications. In the Thompson Trophy Race (I believe in 1946 or 1947), you were timed from liftoff ... so Tex installed 12-Volt motors in his 24-Volt system for the landing gear, and they snapped up in about 1/3 the time of a stock P-63 gear retraction ... but you ran the risk of a gear motor nurnout. Fortunately he didn't have one. But he was WAY ahead when he experienced a magneto failure and dropped ot of the race.
> 
> But he was kicking a$$ when he had the mag failure ...



Tex Johnston raced a P-39, Cobra II, in 1946. It was the one the Museum owned later. It was the sister to Jack Woolams' Cobra I. It was top qualifier at 409 and won the race at 373. It led from start to finish. Tex never raced again, and never raced a P-63. 
Cobra II was third in 1947 flown by Jay Demming, another Bell test pilot. 
It was flown by Allison test pilot Chuck Brown in the '48 race, top qualifier again at 418 and was forced out on the last lap by a vapor lock after a cowling panel blew off.
Chris...


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## jimh (Jan 23, 2012)

Cook Cleland and his Corsairs dominated Cleveland and its truely a blessing that Bob Odegaard resurrected these great airframes. Beguine has to be one of the most beautiful incarnations of a racing Mustang ever built. I believe if Greenamyer hadn't given his Bearcat to the NASM it would still be the one to beat. I wish I could have witnessed the races during the 40's and mid 70's...good times!

jim

This is Anson Johnson's P-51 as she sits in storage at Bradley


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## chris mcmillin (Aug 2, 2012)

Cook had the right idea with the Super Corsairs, but he was lucky as well as fast. KF-1/Cobra II was leading the '48 race from the start and Cook and Dick blew their scoops off running the Cobra down. Cleveland dominance? Maybe, but it would've been even had Brown been able to make the last lap in'48, 2 Bell wins to 2 Goodyear wins. Instead it's 2 Goodyear wins, 1 NAA win and 1 Bell win. Also Cobra II/KF-1 was top qualifier in '46 and '48.
I see that N13Y is safe and sound in exactly the same condition as it was 15 years ago when I took some startlingly similar photos! Winner of the '48 race, inherited from Brown after the vapor lock, #74 won the '47 Thompson, so they are the only survivors, Cobra II crashing and Cook stupidly allowing the fire department to burn and bulldoze #94.
Thanks for those, good to keep up to date.
Chris...


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## chris mcmillin (Aug 2, 2012)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Also consider the formulas, sport and jet class as well. Super sport racers are flying at speeds some of the warbirds did just a few years ago at half the horse power!!! There’s been a lot done in those other classes and although we admire and love WW2 fighters going around the pylons, true air race fans should appreciate ALL classes.
> 
> Current Reno course speed record holder, all classes



Dick Laidlaw averaged 636 at Mojave around the 15 mile course in 1974. He used a Sabre 6. I'm sure Mr. Personality could do better, of course.
Chris...


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 2, 2012)

chris mcmillin said:


> Dick Laidlaw averaged 636 at Mojave around the 15 mile course in 1974. He used a Sabre 6. I'm sure Mr. Personality could do better, of course.
> Chris...



If he was on the same course with the same aircraft - you betcha. Be advised however we would have thrown a mouse in the tailpipe and would have pushed 650.

Remember, swept wing aircraft are not allowed at Reno!!!!


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## GregP (Aug 3, 2012)

Came across some info in the Cobra I and Cobra II.

Mira Slovak said that he ran a P-51H propeller on a P-39 and almost could not control it. When he tried to turn right, it wanted to do an outside snap roll to the left. After several atttempts, he wound up turning left and landing as quickly as possible. Seems the 4-bladed P-51H prop had a lot more blade area than the 3-blade stock prop, and the increase in surface area forward of the CL could not be handled by the P-39 tail. He is pretty sure that's what killed Mike Carol ... the extra area forward of the CL simply overpowered the tail surfaces of the P-39. If he had used a P-63, he'd have been OK since it was designed for a lot more power and HAD it in late models.

Our shop has a 100-series Allison in the CAF P-63 at San Marcos and it is running and flying just fine. We COULD install an aux blower (we have two), but they aren't wanting one.

The old Cobra II was flown by Lefty Gardner before it crashed and he had this to say to Joe Yancey (they were good friends).

When Lefty flew it at Reno, he said the Allison G-6 horsepower was awesome, and the driveshaft bowed over a foot and half under his seat! It was not designed for the power being used (the P-63 driveshaft WAS). He said it was far and away the fastest-accelerating aircraft he had ever flown until a mag let go and he decided to land on the remaining mag rather than risk losing both. He said it flew "OK but not great due to limited control surface authority" but was very torquey and needed careful handling when at full rattle with the G-6 engine of about 2,850 HP+. When he landed, he was fast enough to have been a half lap ahead of the eventual winner that year.

That data from Joe Yancey after the nice article in a warbird magazine about the Cobra I and II this month. In fact, Joe will be missing from the shop tomorrow due to having to be in Palm Springs to work on THEIR Kingcobra that has issues with either simply a mag or something more serious. We hope it is just a mag. If not, it could be an easily fix or overhaul time ... we won't know until we get there. Mostly, their engine seemed healthy last time was saw it, so Joe's thinking it could be a mag only at this time. More data after the visit ...


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## norab (Aug 3, 2012)

just for some interest







story here

Messerschmitt Bf 109G-6 Finnish Racer by Chris Sherland (Trumpeter 1/24)


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## chris mcmillin (Nov 7, 2012)

Comments within...



GregP said:


> Came across some info in the Cobra I and Cobra II.
> 
> Mira Slovak said that he ran a P-51H propeller on a P-39 and almost could not control it. When he tried to turn right, it wanted to do an outside snap roll to the left. After several atttempts, he wound up turning left and landing as quickly as possible. Seems the 4-bladed P-51H prop had a lot more blade area than the 3-blade stock prop, and the increase in surface area forward of the CL could not be handled by the P-39 tail. He is pretty sure that's what killed Mike Carol ... the extra area forward of the CL simply overpowered the tail surfaces of the P-39. If he had used a P-63, he'd have been OK since it was designed for a lot more power and HAD it in late models.
> 
> ...


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## zoomar (Nov 7, 2012)

I suspect that performance had far less to do with what fighters were used as racers than simple availability. The vast majority of racers were surplus US fighters used by US flyers in US races. Planes like the P-51, F4U, F8F were available, known and reliable quantities, and probably relatively cheap. P-40s, P-63s, and P-39s also were raced in the immediate post-war years.

While it would have been cool to see Ki-84s, Bf-109s, and Fw-190's in the mix, this is just about impossible (with the possible exception of a Spanish Ha variant of the 109).


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## Shortround6 (Nov 7, 2012)

At times you could buy a plane for less than itwould cost to fill the tanks with fuel.


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## GregP (Nov 7, 2012)

Hi Chris,

I have no way of knowing if your assertion is the case or Joe's memory is the case ... and I am in no position to argue either way. I followed Reno at the time, but was not at the races when Lefty purportedly flew either aircraft, so I can't say at all.

If you were there and monitoring Lefty, I bow to your knowledge, but Lefty flew a LOT of planes when he got the chance. He was happiest IN THE AIR, and there are several really neat stories about Lefty and the White Lightning.

Cheers! Go fast and turn left!


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## nuuumannn (Nov 7, 2012)

> All the members of our team have bolo hats and we have one gorilla mask and a fake wood propeller,. just lijke the original. When we do the "first flight" Steve Hinton will probably not wear the gorilla mask, but he probably will for the tow to the flight line during the next airshow after it flies!



That's awesome Greg! Has it flown yet? Any photos of the gorilla masks will be great to see!


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## GregP (Nov 8, 2012)

The YP-59A has not flown yet. We have been trying to identify the money for the flight test program for a few years now without success, but have just has someone step up to the plate and say he'd match $25,000 if we put up $25,000 ... so we are MUCH closer than we were. The flight test program is expected to cost $50,000 within a 3-month period. When you pay for and apply for the FAA airworthiness certificate, you have 90 days to complete the flight test program or your application expires and you have to do it all over again, so the money has to be there.

Right now, we have finished the basic airframe, have made a new sliding canopy, are currently finishing a new windscreen, and are working on the ailerons and gap seals. The engines are installed, we fabricated firewalls (never had them before), and still need to make an instrument panel (easy when the insttruments are identified) and have a few miscellaneous tasks to complete, but the bird COULD be ready for FAA application within two months when the money is identified.

Hopefully within the next year, but I suppose we'll see, won't we?


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