# James "Pug" Southerland vs Saburo Sakai



## Hunter368 (Nov 8, 2006)

I just watched a very interesting TV program (called secrets of the dead) on PBS about the famous dogfight between Pug and Saburo. During that program Sakai called Pug a great pilot and was amazed how good of a pilot he was. Sakai said he had never seen anyone fly a plane like he had. Pug fought off several other Zeros in his Wildcat, shooting them down. Sakai after watching his wingmen get shot up by this Wildcat pilot decided to come into the fight and shoot this Wildcat down. After a long and prolonged fight between the two pilots where Sakai filled the Wildcat with bullets Pug reversed the favor and cut his power to his plane thus putting Sakai into his sights.

Sakai thought he was about to die at the hands of this clever USA pilot. But no bullets hit his plane to his amazement! (apparently it is believed that his guns jammed) The USA pilot was not firing at him. After a short bit Sakai got on Pugs tail again and pulled up beside Pugs wing and saw that Pug was hurt and bleeding. Sakai showed some mercy and decided just to shoot the Wildcats engine out, hoping the pilot inside would live. Sakai did finish off the Wildcat with a well aimed burst to the engine. Pug baled out before his plane crashed.

It was a very good show watch it you can. Here is a few links about it and pictures of Pug and Sakai.


SECRETS OF THE DEAD . Dogfight Over Guadalcanal . Clues Evidence | PBS

Grumman F4F-4 Wildcat "Junior" Bureau Number 5192 Tail Number F-12

Thirteen/WNET - Online Pressroom - Press Release


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 8, 2006)

And he deliberately shot his engine out? Hmmm. That is amazing. I'll have to read your links as, no offense, that is mighty suspicious for a one-on-one single engine fighter battle. But there have been stranger things! Good post!


----------



## syscom3 (Nov 8, 2006)

That pacific wrecks website is great.

Ive known about it for a few years and have met the "wreck hunters" at the Chino Airshows.


----------



## Hunter368 (Nov 8, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> And he deliberately shot his engine out? Hmmm. That is amazing. I'll have to read your links as, no offense, that is mighty suspicious for a one-on-one single engine fighter battle. But there have been stranger things! Good post!



It did not start as a single vs single fighter dogfight. Pug's plane was hit already from Sakai's wingmen, before Pug shot them down. Then Pug came into the fight, from what I can gather or guess it sounds like 2 Jap Zeros damaged Pug's plane (before Pug shot them down), then Sakai came in and shot Pug's Wildcat up good. Sakai talks about the battle also in his book (which is a good read), Sakai said he must of hit the Wildcat with hundreds of rounds from his rifle cal. machine guns and the Wildcat just would not go down. Good old USA steel.


----------



## Hunter368 (Nov 8, 2006)

syscom3 said:


> That pacific wrecks website is great.
> 
> Ive known about it for a few years and have met the "wreck hunters" at the Chino Airshows.




Yes it shows actual parts from Pugs plane that they found. Amazing really. That is very cool syscom that you met them. They actually found one of the locals who found Pug on the beach after he bailed out, one of them actually is still alive. They interviewed him and he was telling them how he remembers finding this wounded USA pilot on the beach. Amazing


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 8, 2006)

Okay. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

[Hmm. See how that's done Syscom. It's kinda cathartic.}


----------



## syscom3 (Nov 8, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> Okay. Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
> 
> [Hmm. See how that's done Syscom. It's kinda cathartic.}



what?


----------



## syscom3 (Nov 8, 2006)

I need to do one of my threads, "airfields of the PTO", for the Solomons (and Bismarks). So many airfields of historical significance.


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 9, 2006)

As someone who is not an expert, I would love to see that.


----------



## syscom3 (Nov 9, 2006)

For those who are not familiar with my periodic thread..."Pacific Airfields"

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/pacific-airfields-3451.html?highlight=airfields+PTO


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 9, 2006)

Interesting read Syscom. Nice thread.


----------



## timshatz (Nov 9, 2006)

Amazing that Saki took a .30 bullet through the brain and survived. 

Then he flew 550 miles to Rabaul in that condition. I had always thought the bullet just skimmed his skull but it actually blew through his brain. That is just amazing!


----------



## Hunter368 (Nov 9, 2006)

Tim,

Yes that is true. After he shot down Pug Sakai went after a USA bomber. The tailgunner shot Sakai right threw the windshield. The bullet entered on thr right hand of his face and out the back. He survived but lost his vision in that eye. Here is a few pics of his actually helmet after he was shot in the head, it is on display now. The one pic you can see how the bullet wrecked his helmet and you can see blood on the side of it. Amazing


----------



## timshatz (Nov 9, 2006)

Cripes.


----------



## Hunter368 (Nov 9, 2006)

Yup just one of many air combat stories from WW2 that are amazing.


----------



## lesofprimus (Nov 9, 2006)

Agreed, and that is one excellent piece of history right there...


----------



## Micdrow (Nov 11, 2006)

Hunter368 said:


> Tim,
> 
> Yes that is true. After he shot down Pug Sakai went after a USA bomber. The tailgunner shot Sakai right threw the windshield. The bullet entered on thr right hand of his face and out the back. He survived but lost his vision in that eye. Here is a few pics of his actually helmet after he was shot in the head, it is on display now. The one pic you can see how the bullet wrecked his helmet and you can see blood on the side of it. Amazing



Whats even more amazin is that Sakai shook hands with the tailgunner that hit him after the war was over. Off hand I forget his name. Still amazing, time does heal all wounds at least in this case.

Micdrow


----------



## Micdrow (Nov 11, 2006)

Ok found the info, In 1982 Saburo Sakai shook hands with Harold I Jones, one of the SBD gunners who wounded him. He is blind (Aka Saburo Sakai)in his right eye but has achieved 3 hole in ones playing golf.

Talk about good aim. I have an English copy of his book Samerai, very interesting book. He even pulled a gun on one of his officers for beating on an enlisted man. 

Very interesting book, 

Micdrow


----------



## Gnomey (Nov 11, 2006)

lesofprimus said:


> Agreed, and that is one excellent piece of history right there...



Yep, great story.


----------



## timshatz (Nov 11, 2006)

I've read interviews with the guy and he definitely had his own opinions. Not typically the perspective that Pre-War and War Time Japanese are considered. Talked the talk but also walked the walk.

Did not have a high opinion of Hirohito.


----------



## Rubberduck (Jun 26, 2012)

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the actual dog fight between Sakai and the Hudson before he shot it down????


----------



## Chip Southerland (Apr 15, 2017)

I am sorry to have found this website so long after the thread was begun. I very much appreciate the discussion here. Lt. Cmdr. James Julien "Pug" Southerland was my Uncle and I have some rather interesting insights to offer on this subject from letters he wrote to my Grandmother, Ida Elizabeth (Fickling) Southerland, found by my Father, Charles C. Southerland Sr. upon the disposition of my Grandmother's estate. 

As Uncle Pug related the story, he was leading a group of Wildcats as wing commander and encountered the Japanese Betty Bombers. His wing shot down several of the bombers and expended much of their US wing ammunition doing so. Pugs own guns jammed, probably as a result of a Betty Tail gunner's round striking one of the feed belts on his own .50 caliber gun system. The U.S. pilots were very much aware of the limitations of the Wildcat against the Japanese Zero during those early days of the war (later, the Hellcats would make up for that). My uncle felt a deep responsibility as wing commander for his flight wing and so he ordered his flight back to the Aircraft Carrier they were assigned to (I think it was the USS Ranger. I know he was assigned to the Ranger, but it may have been later in the war), believing it was his responsibility to stop the zeros from pursuing his flight wing elements and shooting them down. Uncle Pug was an extraordinary pilot. According to Saburo Sakai's account, Pug made the Wildcat do things that Sakai thought impossible for the Wildcat to perform. While engaging with the two original Japanese Zeros, Pug actually managed to get them to fire at each other in their haste to shoot him down. That is why Sakai waved them off and decided to take Pug out on a one to one duel. Uncle Pug pulled the classic "Top Gun movie" maneuver of bringing the enemy on his tail in close, then putting on the brakes, causing the enemy to fly by and come under Pugs own guns. I can only imagine how frustrated my Uncle must have been to have the star ace of the Japanese Air Force under his guns and unable to fire. Sakai asserts that he had so much respect for the American Pilot, that he decided as a matter of chivalry to shoot out the engine of the plane instead of the pilot. 

None of the air tactics were discussed in any of my Grandmother's correspondence. He wrote to her about how he had a hole in his foot that he could see through as he hung in his parachute and that there was a wound in his thigh that he stuck his fist in to to staunch the bleeding. I think he mentioned that he lost his pistol in the bail out. He went on to offer details about how he made it to the coast line and watched the battle of Guadalcanal in part from the beach, eventually making his way to some friendly natives who tended his wounds and evacuated him via dugout to a Catholic Chapel (a merciful assistance for which the natives suffered terribly at the hands of the Japanese later on). Pug spent the night hidden in that Chapel fearful that the Japanese would find him as it was apparent they were searching for a downed American Pilot. The next day, he was ferried down a river to a forward Marine outpost and from there, escorted back to the fleet and to the U.S. where he recovered from his wounds in a Naval Hospital. 

After recovering from his wounds, he returned to the fleet and I believe he later flew a Hellcat, successfully shooting down enough planes (I believe there were 7 total) to become an Ace. After the war, he became a flight instructor and one night off Pensacola, he was leading in a group of student pilots, teaching them nighttime carrier landings. It was my understanding that a student pilot missed a wave off and came in behind Pug, striking his plant and knocking it over the side of the Aircraft carrier. Crew members aboard the carrier saw him struggling to open the canopy of his plane as it went under and that was the last observance of him. I was told by a cousin who visited with him in Florida a few days prior to the accident, while he was leading a cross country training flight, that he had complained about his canopy sticking in its slide and was having it serviced. 

Beyond the service history, my Uncle Pug seems to have been remembered by all who knew him is just an overall great guy. He did get his nickname while earning Golden Gloves on the Naval boxing team at Annapolis. My father, Pug's younger brother, loved him dearly. It was a terrible tragedy for the entire family that after surviving some of the greatest perils of WW II, he would be killed in a training accident. Uncle Pug's wonderful wife only shared his company a relatively short time from the time they were married after graduating from Annapolis, due to his overseas assignments. That was enough to have two children, a boy, James Julien Junior, and a Girl, Sally. James Julien Junior followed in his father's footsteps by attending Annapolis and served with distinction during the Vietnam war. 

In my own family of 5, our third child , Julien (Pug), is also named after his famous great uncle. Although I was not born until 2 years after Uncle Pug's death, I grew up with tales of a beloved Uncle from my own father, my Grandmother and other members of the family who knew him well. He was a true American Hero.

Reactions: Winner Winner:
3 | Like List reactions


----------



## Old Wizard (Apr 15, 2017)




----------



## fubar57 (Apr 15, 2017)




----------



## Wayne Little (Apr 16, 2017)




----------



## Sir Percy Ware-Armitage (Apr 18, 2017)

What a great story! Thanks for sharing.


----------

