# EE Lightning over wing tanks



## Tangopilot89 (Oct 26, 2017)

Hey everyone, I've been to yet another aircraft museum and while I was admiring the English Electric Lightning, I noticed the fuel drop tanks were over the wings rather than under them, which is where I thought they always were on every combat aircraft. I was wondering why they did this, because 1 - isn't this bad for aerodynamics and 2 - what happens if the tanks need to be jettisoned in flight? Can anyone explain please? I'm completely confused.

Thank you
Andy


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## buffnut453 (Oct 26, 2017)

The overwing tanks were implemented because of the way the Lightning's undercarriage retracted into the wing, which didn't leave any room for stores to be carried under the wings. 

AFAIK, the overwing tanks could not be jettisoned in flight.

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## Tangopilot89 (Oct 26, 2017)

I've just looked at my Lightning model after reading your response and I understand now, the undercarriage takes up a lot of space under each wing so there's no room for anything else. I get it, thank you for _en_-lightening me (pun intended). Flying around with those on your wings must have seriously affected performance knowing you can't ditch them when you're finished with them.

Thanks again
Andy


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## pbehn (Oct 26, 2017)

Tangopilot89 said:


> I've just looked at my Lightning model after reading your response and I understand now, the undercarriage takes up a lot of space under each wing so there's no room for anything else. I get it, thank you for _en_-lightening me (pun intended). Flying around with those on your wings must have seriously affected performance knowing you can't ditch them when you're finished with them.
> 
> Thanks again
> Andy


There is another school of thought, in order to make any sales impossible the designers were ordered to make a classic mean machine look comical, fat and ugly.


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## Tangopilot89 (Oct 26, 2017)

pbehn said:


> There is another school of thought, in order to make any sales impossible the designers were ordered to make a classic mean machine look comical, fat and ugly.



Why oh why cant they solve the problem without ruining the look of the aircraft? I guess it's something we will never know


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## pbehn (Oct 26, 2017)

Tangopilot89 said:


> Why oh why cant they solve the problem without ruining the look of the aircraft? I guess it's something we will never know


I don't really know what the tanks were for. I find it hard to believe it was to increase interception range in combat, if they could go supersonic and up to Mach 2.2 with those tanks then anything can. Maybe to transport between bases in Europe or maybe to just escort Tu 4 Bears out of UK airspace, in the warm parts of the cold war the pilots on both sides got to know each other, both sides using the opportunity for propaganda pics.


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## buffnut453 (Oct 26, 2017)

pbehn said:


> I don't really know what the tanks were for. I find it hard to believe it was to increase interception range in combat, if they could go supersonic and up to Mach 2.2 with those tanks then anything can. Maybe to transport between bases in Europe or maybe to just escort Tu 4 Bears out of UK airspace, in the warm parts of the cold war the pilots on both sides got to know each other, both sides using the opportunity for propaganda pics.



They were "long range" ferry tanks ("long range" being a relative term....at least where the Lightning is concerned).

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## pbehn (Oct 26, 2017)

buffnut453 said:


> They were "long range" ferry tanks ("long range" being a relative term....at least where the Lightning is concerned).


I read on this forum that Lightning pilots only went supersonic in the direction of fuel as a general rule.

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## buffnut453 (Oct 26, 2017)

pbehn said:


> I read on this forum that Lightning pilots only went supersonic in the direction of fuel as a general rule.



And downhill...more efficient that way.

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## Airframes (Oct 27, 2017)

The over-wing tanks were often described as 'transit tanks', and were intended for use when the aircraft was transitting to a an APC (Armament Practice Camp), normally in the Med. They were removed on arrival.

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## Tangopilot89 (Oct 27, 2017)

pbehn said:


> I read on this forum that Lightning pilots only went supersonic in the direction of fuel as a general rule.



Haha I can imagine that! Including the downhill bit too. That'll be all the time then judging by the way the Lightning drinks fuel. Don't know why, but I still love the way it was just you, ejector seat, massive engines, wings, fuel, the end. Where you had to actually take it by the scruff of the neck and fly the thing.

PS. Shout out to Airframes's post above, that's an interesting fun fact.


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## fubar57 (Oct 27, 2017)

We like him


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## Tangopilot89 (Oct 27, 2017)

fubar57 said:


> We like him



Who are you referring to mate? Seriously, I'm not trying to be deliberately stupid here.


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## fubar57 (Oct 27, 2017)

Terry (airframes) knowledgeable and sharing to a fault


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## buffnut453 (Oct 27, 2017)

fubar57 said:


> We like him



"Like" is a bit strong. "Tolerate" is more appropriate....then again, you tolerate me!

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## Lucky13 (Oct 28, 2017)

buffnut453 said:


> "Like" is a bit strong. "Tolerate" is more appropriate....then again, you tolerate me!



Much like, the way you tolerate, accept, some house pets....we've tolerated, accepted him for that long now, that he actually goes with the furniture here on the forum....
Don't get him started on his all-time favourite aircraft, the Grumman Wildcat, then he'll just hijack the thread to tell about this aircraft superiority over all other fighters, or lack of any flaws to put it simple....the skies Marilyn Monroe as he likes to call it....


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## fubar57 (Oct 28, 2017)

......Jan was last seen high-tailing it over the Highlands, followed closely by an irate retired British ex-para


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## Airframes (Oct 28, 2017)

I'll catch up with him when the battery on my mobility scooter is charged !!!

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## buffnut453 (Oct 29, 2017)

And yet another perfectly decent thread descends into anarchy.

I love this place!


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## Lucky13 (Oct 29, 2017)

Airframes said:


> I'll catch up with him when the battery on my mobility scooter is charged !!!



Doesn't take too long to charge a 9 volt battery, does it?


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## Airframes (Oct 29, 2017)

No, but mine's got 2 x 12V batteries, and does a blistering 4 mph - down hill, with a tail wind !!
However, up-hill performance ranges between mediocre and bl**dy terrible, so you might just have a chance ................


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## Lucky13 (Oct 29, 2017)

I better make sure that I plan my escape passing by a pub or two then and your local strip joint....


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## Airframes (Oct 29, 2017)

The first pub will do for a couple of scoops, as long as the second one can re-charge the batteries - but we'll probably be there long enough for that to happen - HIC !


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## Lucky13 (Oct 29, 2017)

A few pints and a fry up!


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## AMCKen (Oct 30, 2017)

buffnut453 said:


> The overwing tanks were implemented because of the way the Lightning's undercarriage retracted into the wing, which didn't leave any room for stores to be carried under the wings.
> 
> AFAIK, the overwing tanks could not be jettisoned in flight.



And even if they could, with the low set elevators on a Lightning, under wing tanks might hit the elevators when leaving.


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## Graeme (Oct 30, 2017)

Every thread should have at least one illustration...

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## Tangopilot89 (Oct 30, 2017)

buffnut453 said:


> And yet another perfectly decent thread descends into anarchy.
> 
> I love this place!



Whoopsie, most likely my bad for starting this thread in the first place


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## fubar57 (Oct 30, 2017)

Not your fault, We're just good at finding the one weak layer in the thread. The record I believe is Post #2 as seen in this thread
Color pics For a Model I'm Building
I think your thread reached it purpose before chaos ensued. I know I learned something about the Lightning. Thanks for starting the thread


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## pbehn (Oct 30, 2017)

Tangopilot89 said:


> Whoopsie, most likely my bad for starting this thread in the first place


It was a good question, answered in full before chaos occurred.


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## buffnut453 (Oct 30, 2017)

That's SO not like us! We normally don't let a solid, rational and (heaven forfend) accurate answer get in the way of our childish shenanigans! 

And I get triple points for including "forfend" and "shenanigans" in the same sentence!


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## pbehn (Oct 30, 2017)

buffnut453 said:


> That's SO not like us! We normally don't let a solid, rational and (heaven forfend) accurate answer get in the way of our childish shenanigans!
> 
> And I get triple points for including "forfend" and "shenanigans" in the same sentence!


I see your "forfend" and "shenanigans" but point out that I have used "Bailiwick" twice on this forum.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 30, 2017)

Just saying....


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## pbehn (Oct 30, 2017)

Swedes are turnips. Whilst in much of Europe keys are English even though designed by a Swede, or is it a Turnip.

In Italy and Germany an adjustable spanner is called an "English key" KCle Anglais, Cave Inglese or Englischer schlussel but I never met anyone who could tell me why.

Rollgabelschlüssel – Wikipedia


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## parsifal (Oct 31, 2017)

Tolerate might be a bit extreme to describe our feelings towards Terry or Lucky. Fear of the legal consequences if we acted out our true attitudes towards these two is probably a better way to describe the situation.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 31, 2017)

I didn't even know, that we had a situation....


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## Airframes (Oct 31, 2017)

I didn't know that Swedes could be microwaved - I thought they'd scream a lot, in Swedish ..................

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## Lucky13 (Oct 31, 2017)

Airframes said:


> I didn't know that Swedes could be microwaved - I thought they'd scream a lot, in Swedish ..................



In Swenglish or Swettish....


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## Tangopilot89 (Nov 1, 2017)

Cheers my fellow aviation fans. Glad it wasn't my fault. Any time I have a aviation question, I'll still pop on here to ask it. Both my recent questions I posted on here have gained some really interesting answers, and I have learned new things in the process.

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## buffnut453 (Nov 1, 2017)

Tangopilot89 said:


> Cheers my fellow aviation fans. Glad it wasn't my fault. Any time I have a aviation question, I'll still pop on here to ask it. Both my recent questions I posted on here have gained some really interesting answers, and I have learned new things in the process.



And experienced a bunch of nonsense you could have really done without!

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## Peter Gunn (Nov 2, 2017)

Lucky13 said:


> I better make sure that I plan my escape passing by a pub or two then and_* your local strip joint*_....



Late to the party again, damn I miss all the fun. Seems that Terry is planning on "motoring" past my house then with some Swedish types yelling and screaming in Swenglish?

Clearly I need a round of whatever you guys are having...


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## XX656 (Nov 2, 2017)

The Lightning overwing tanks could be jettisoned in flight - the pylons were fitted with explosive release units.

From AP101B-1003, 5 and 6-15A: Part 2: Chapter 1: Para 35

Overwing Tank Jettison:

35. Empty overwing tanks may be jettisoned between 200 and 250 knots and up to 0.75M at heights up to 40,000ft in straight and level flight. Overwing tanks containing fuel are not to be jettisoned.

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## Tangopilot89 (Nov 2, 2017)

buffnut453 said:


> And experienced a bunch of nonsense you could have really done without!



True. Oh well, guess that's just par for the course.


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## Lucky13 (Nov 2, 2017)

buffnut453 said:


> And experienced a bunch of nonsense you could have really done without!





Tangopilot89 said:


> True. Oh well, guess that's just par for the course.



Mind you though....it IS good quality nonsense!

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## PStickney (Nov 9, 2017)

Tangopilot89 said:


> Why oh why cant they solve the problem without ruining the look of the aircraft? I guess it's something we will never know


I thought the subject was EE Lightning drop tanks, in which case I don't understand


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