# 97 Squadron Lancaster ED 862P



## david_layne (Apr 2, 2007)

Here are some pictures of the crew of 97 Squadron Lancaster "ED 862P" taken on May 13th 1943 prior to a raid on the Skoda Works in Pilsen Czechoslovakia. 

The crew was White (mid upper gunner), Nelson (Flight Engineer), Beesley (Bomb Aimer), Fletcher (Pilot), Layne (Wireless Operator), and Page (Rear Gunner). It appears one crew member was absent from the photo shoot.

On this night the aircraft carried 1 4000 llb. bomb, 4 500 llb. bombs and 4 500 llb. markers. ED 862P was subsequently lost with another crew on the night of 29/30th July 1943 during the "Operation Gomorrah" raid on Hamburg

Any further information about 97 Squadron during the time frame April 1943 to September 1943 would be appreciated, as would additional photographs of 97 Squadron Lancasters.


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## Concorde247 (Apr 9, 2007)

Heres one picture of a 97 sdn lanc, I know i have others somewhere, i just have to find them!!


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## Bf109_g (Apr 11, 2007)

Hi David!

I am a relation to ED862P's last captain, P/O D.J. Marks, DFM. Would you have
any information on how the aircraft was named "Spurius"?

Thank you.

James Marks.


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## david_layne (Apr 11, 2007)

Bf109_g said:


> Hi David!
> 
> I am a relation to ED862P's last captain, P/O D.J. Marks, DFM. Would you have
> any information on how the aircraft was named "Spurius"?
> ...



Hello James. I have no idea how the aircraft was so named, I am curious about Spurius myself.

I presume your relative was with 97 Squadron. I am very interested in this squadron and welcome any information you can give about your relative and his crew.


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## david_layne (Apr 11, 2007)

Concorde247 thanks for the picture, I would greatly appreciate anymore that you have of 97 squadron aircraft.


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## david_layne (Apr 11, 2007)

Bf109_g said:


> Hi David!
> 
> I am a relation to ED862P's last captain, P/O D.J. Marks, DFM. Would you have
> any information on how the aircraft was named "Spurius"?
> ...




Here is a copy of the squadrons Orbs for the night that ED862P was lost.

29/30 July 1943 Hamburg – Bomb Load 6 x TI, 1 x 4000lb, 3 x 1000lb unless stated

JA708Z W/C K.H.Burns, P/O E.G.Dolby, P/O J.E.McAvoy, P/O J.Keddie, Sgts R.J.Williams, E.H.Skinner, G.Lambert. Up 2209 Down 0332. Target hamburg attacked. 18,500’. No cloud, hazy. Dock area lit up by flares and TIs. Bombed on concentration of yellow and green TI markers. Fires still burning from previous raid and new ones going well.
ED839C S/L E.E.Rodley, Sgt J.Duffy, F/Sgt L.Clark, F/Sgt R.R.Rae, Sgts F.Peters, R.M.V.Daniels, S/L Allen. Up 2213 Down 0322. Primary objective attacked. 19,500’. No cloud. Visibility good. Bombed between two yellow TI markers. Fires still burning from previous raid and new ones. Large explosion at 0020.
ED814D F/O R.F.Clayton, Sgt A.S.Palmer, F/O F.W.Chandler, Sgt A.C.Newbegin, P/O Smith, Sgts R.C.Haviland, P.O.Bone. Up 2219 Down 0312. Hamburg. 20,000’. No cloud, hazy. Bombed centre of concentration of about a dozen yellow TI markers – not actually in bombsight. Good concentration of bombing. Much smoke from whole of marked area.
JA707K F/L C.B.Robertson, Sgt W.G.Peel, F/O G.C.Crockett, F/Sgt P.Scott, F/O J.C.Frizzell, Sgts W.Wilkes, W.St C.Hebb. Up 2215 Down 0304. Target hamburg bombed. 19,500’. No cloud. Haze. Target identified visually. Bombed on green and yellow TIs. Own bombs seen to burst on aiming point. Fires from previous raid still burning and new ones starting up.
EE168B P/O S.R.Dawson, Sgt T.Shaw, P/O B.J.Starie, Sgts R.C.Pike, J.C.McLeish, A.M.Barrowman, A.E.Roberts. Up 2202 Down 0300. Target Hamburg attacked. 20,000. Fair visibility. Target identified by light of fires. Bombed on yellow TIs cascading. Fires still burning from previous raid.
ED911E F/Sgt L.Stevenson, Sgts J.Brett, R.G.Christie, J.D.Bradford, H.G.Mitchell, J.Mallaber, T.G.Pugh. Up 2211 Down 0325. Primary objective attacked. 19,500’. No cloud. Target identified by light of flares and TIs. Lake identified visually. Bombed concentration of yellow and green TIs. At target early but fires fromprevious raid were still burning.
ED869S W/C E.F.Nind, Sgt P.J.Roberts, P/O W.G.Wishart, P/O R.M.Nelson, Sgt G.F.Gower, F/L Mottram (?), F/O L.G.Mussi. Up 2217 Down 0327. hamburg attacked. No cloud, visibility fiar. Ground haze. Bombed centre of cluster of green TI markers – none actually in bombsight. Terrific explosion at 0055. Many new and old fires observed.
ED862P F/S D.J.Marks, Sgt D.C.Fentiman, F/O G.N.Hammond, F/Sgt J.A.Dunbar, Sgts D.MacDonald, J.Cumming, P.H.Unwin. Up 2228 – aircraft and crew missing.
ED875R Sgts D.A.Montgomery, G.C.Grainger, P/O E.L.Cohn, J.Gardner, J.Baker, S.N.Neill, F/Sgt R.K.Baggs. Up 2222 Down 0307. Primary target Hamburg attacked. 19,500’. Hazy. Bombed yellow TIs – not in bombsight. Own bombs seen to explode on yellow TIs. Numerous fires in target area.
EE107F F/L S.Wareing, Sgt Ramsay, F/Sgt H.F.Daniels, Sgts D.W.Burt, H.Bryson, A.J.Harris, E.F.Bryan. Up 2221 Down 0349. Hamburg attacked. 18,500’. Target covered with smoke. Bombed on green TIs seen cascading . Explosion seen at 0056. Smoke obscured ground detail.
ED938J P/O J.F.Munro, Sgt J.T.Pratt, P/O A.H.G.Spencer, P/O E.J.Suswain, Sgts S.Nevard, K.S.Bennett, F/Sgt W.Hill. Up 2223 Down 0345. Target Hamburg. 19,500’. No cloud, visibility poor. Smoke haze. Bombed between two green TI markers not in bombsight. Huge column of smoke up to 10,000’ prevented observation of ground detail.
ED948W F/O B.H.Berridge, P/O R.C.Swetman, W/O L.Bremner, Sgt W.Parker, F/Sgt A.E.Flowerday, Sgts W.Lochrie, F.Edwards. Up 2230 Down 0346. Hamburg attacked. 16,500’. No cloud, smoky. Bombed cluster of green TIs, none actaully in bombsight. Saw many fires well under way with big smoke pall rising to 6,000’.
EE176M F/Sgt L.Baker, Sgt W.Vaughan, P/O C.W.Webb, Sgts A.Davie, J.Richards, G.Lowden, M.Edwards. Up 2243 Down 0354. Primary objective bombed. 18,500’. Smoke haze. Target identified by TIs and fires. Concentration of green TIs in bombsight when bombs released. Large number of fires and bomb bursts seen in marked area.
JA711Y P/O K.Fairlie, Sgts C.E.Addison, W.G.Clutterbuck, K.Prouten, F.Ball, A.J.Cossins, G.Coombes. Up 2245 Down 0336. Hamburg. 18,000’. No cloud, smoke haze. Bombs released on yellow and green TIs – not in bombsight. Large fires observed around target area.
JA846L? F/Sgt V.D.Evans, F/Sgt C.Neary, W/C R.C.Alabaster, Sgts G.E.Edgecombe, F.Martin, A.L.Pole, F.R.Higgins. Up 2254 down 0400. Target Hamburg attacked. No cloud. Visibility good. Bombed centre of three green TI markers – in bombsight. Bomb bursts and large fires observed in marked area in centre of target.
EE172O P/O C.Shnier, Sgt A.H.Gibbons, P/O Homersham(?), P/O P.de Villiers, Sgt P.Evans, F/Sgt B.Knoesen, Sgt D.E.Croft. Up 2246 – aircraft and crew missing.
JA715H? F/L A.Eaton-Clarke, Sgts C.S.Chatten (2nd Pilot), G.S.Dunning (F/E), T.J.Lightfoot, P/O A.N.Carlton, F/Sgt G.K.Smith, Sgts E.Hambling, P.A.Walder. Bomb load as above + one flare. Up 2256 Down 0403. Target Hamburg attacked. 19,500’. Visibility good. One green TI marker in bombsight when bombs released. Huge area of deep red fires in marked area and smoke pall up to 20,000’.
ED868A S/L K.J.Foster, Sgts C.Baumber, L.R.Armitage, P/O C.W.Webb, Sgt W.A.Reffin, F/Sgt J.R.Kraemer, Sgt L.V.Smith. 1 x 4000lb, 10 x 500lb. Up 2150 Down 0315. primary objective attacked. No cloud. Visibility good. Target identified by fires and yellow TIs. Bombed centre of concentration of yellow TI markers – in bombsight at time. Glow of fires round TIs.
EE179U P/O G.de Wesselow, Sgts P.Crow, S.Carlyle, P/O W.G.Cooper, Sgts F.White, R.L.Pritchard, C.Press. 1 x 4000lb, 10 x 500lb. Up 2200 Down 0340. Target Hamburg. 14,000’. Visibility good. Bombed on cluster of yellow and green TIs – none actually in bombsight. Terrific red flash at 0049. Fires well under way.
ED867Q F/Sgt J.H.Saxton, Sgts P.H.Fryer, F.H.Baker, J.C.Rees, C.Watson, J.J.Zunti, W.F.Coates. 1 x 4000lb, 10 x 500lb. Up 2206 Down 0335. Primary objective Hamburg attacked. 20,000’. No cloud, slight haze. Target lit up by fires. Bombed on cluster of yellow TIs. Own bombs seen to burst between yellow and green TIs. White smoke seen up to 15,000’.
JA716V F/O D.Moodie, Sgts L.Melbourne, J.T.Bundle, H.W.Clausen, T.E.Stamp, A.J.Croll, F.A.Hughes. 1 x 4000lb, 10 x 500lb. Up 2204 Down 0337. Hamburg. 18,500’. No cloud. Visibility good. Centre of green TIs in bombsight when load released. Own results not observed. Fires starting up by yellow TIs.


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## david_layne (Apr 11, 2007)

Bf109_g said:


> Hi David!
> 
> I am a relation to ED862P's last captain, P/O D.J. Marks, DFM. Would you have
> any information on how the aircraft was named "Spurius"?
> ...



A little more information about ED862P as I know it. My father Walter H. Layne joined 97 Squadron in April 1943. The first reference to this aircraft in his log book is April 24th.
His crew (Fletcher captain) subsequently flew 9 operations in ED862P from May of 1943 to July of 1943. It is possible the aircraft could also have flown operations with other crews.
The Fletcher crews last trips in Spurius were to Hamburg on July 24th and Essen July 25th. The aircraft being lost with the Marks crew on the Hamburg raid of 29/30 July.


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## david_layne (Apr 11, 2007)

James Marks.

I'm not sure if you know of this site about 97 Squadron. This link should take you to the Flight Ops pertaining to your relative.

97 Squadron Association - Flight Operations

Additionally this too is a site about 97 Squadron.

97 Squadron - The Pathfinder Year


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## david_layne (Apr 12, 2007)

Bf109_g said:


> Hi David!
> 
> I am a relation to ED862P's last captain, P/O D.J. Marks, DFM. Would you have
> any information on how the aircraft was named "Spurius"?
> ...




James, according to Chalkie White who is the only living member of my fathers crew.....................When the Persians were invading Athens, Horatio held the bridge with the help of his able friend, Spurius.


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## chippy (Mar 8, 2009)

Hi David
I do not know if my email was sent so apologies if you get this twice. what is the chrstian name of the rear gunner ( Page ) in the photo. my email address is [email protected]
regards steve


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## cooltouch (Mar 8, 2009)

Could this possibly be the first documented instance of an aircraft loss due to photography?


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## Spurius (Mar 20, 2009)

david_layne said:


> Hello James. I have no idea how the aircraft was so named, I am curious about Spurius myself.
> 
> I presume your relative was with 97 Squadron. I am very interested in this squadron and welcome any information you can give about your relative and his crew.



James,

Do you have any photos of PO Marks with his crew or plane?
Thanks
Spurius


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## Erich (Mar 20, 2009)

Major Helmut Lent of Stab IV./NJG 1 shot down ED 862 20km over the North Sea, N. Ameland at 3800 m. at 02.10 hrs. this was his 73rd victory.

July 30, 1943


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## Spurius (Jul 3, 2009)

Erich, My Uncle died on ED862P. I know that Lent claimed a plane as you say but can you prove to me that it was a Lancaster, and more importantly, can you prove it was this plane? I ask because there were other kills that night without trace, of 4-engined bombers of not only Lancasters but others.
Spurius


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## Maximowitz (Jul 3, 2009)

Spurius said:


> Erich, My Uncle died on ED862P. I know that Lent claimed a plane as you say but can you prove to me that it was a Lancaster, and more importantly, can you prove it was this plane? I ask because there were other kills that night without trace, of 4-engined bombers of not only Lancasters but others.
> Spurius



After 66 years to try and _prove_ who shot who down on a given night is virtually impossible unless hard evidence exists. In this case it does not. So it remains merely _probable_ that Lent did the deed.


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## Spurius (Mar 5, 2010)

david_layne said:


> James, according to Chalkie White who is the only living member of my fathers crew.....................When the Persians were invading Athens, Horatio held the bridge with the help of his able friend, Spurius.


David, Since your post in 2007 regarding ED862P and 97 Squadron, have you come up with any additional information?

Spurius


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## Spurius (Mar 5, 2010)

Maximowitz said:


> After 66 years to try and _prove_ who shot who down on a given night is virtually impossible unless hard evidence exists. In this case it does not. So it remains merely _probable_ that Lent did the deed.


Hi there. Do you know of any air crew still living that participated in the Hamburg Raids of 1942?

Also could you recommend a good read regarding Strategy for the 8th 9th USAF part in Europe ops?

Spurius


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## pjschwab (Dec 26, 2010)

If anyone has any information on James Zunti, it would be greatly appreciated. He's my great uncle, and I'm trying to put some things together. 

Thanks, 
Paul.


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## Spurius (Jan 22, 2011)

David,
Hi there. Regarding 97 Squadron. Do you have any photos of the following aircraft:
ED870T, ED862P, ED816U

Thanks

Barry Fentiman


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## Spurius (Feb 10, 2011)

David,
Would it be possible for you to send me an enlarged copy of the photo showing Spurius with her crew (the first picture)?

Many thanks

Barry


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