# Montréal lose the Shriners' Hospital to London, Ontario.



## Maestro (Jun 12, 2005)

*BREAKING NEWS : Fascism going up in Québec, Shriners out !*

Today, Shriners decided to move their Children Hospital from Montréal to London, Ontario. The organisation claimed that they were afraid of being traped in an Independent Québec, with those suckers of fascists freak that are the Parti Québécois' minions.

That's the best proof that Québec is an hopeless republic in the asshole of America.

May the last one to get out of here shut down the light, please ?

 http://montreal.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=qc-shrine20050426


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 12, 2005)

I feel for you Maestro, I lived in Montreal for 3.5 years and dealt with the PQ language police a few times. One time we threw them out of our office.

After Levequse died I thouth the PQ would die down a bit, but is seems they're still around


----------



## trackend (Jun 12, 2005)

I cant quite understand it Maestro surly being a Canadian under the Canadian flag is what its all about there's no harm in being proud of your ancestry but that's all it is. I dare say FBJ yourself or many others have come from immigrant stock at some time in the not too distant past but
you are what you are. Not French, English, Irish, Scottish, or whatever proud of your past yes but not part of it.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 12, 2005)

But the PQ are just crazy - I'll let Maestro explain....


----------



## trackend (Jun 12, 2005)

Please do Maestro i'm all ears (thats why I look revolting) no eyes or nose just ears.
Seriously I would like to know Maestro


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 12, 2005)

I'll jump in one more time, here's a brief history of the PQ and some of their antics...

In 1976 the Parti Québécois (PQ), a party of French-Canadian nationalists formed in 1970, won control of the provincial parliament under René Lévesque. The new government initiated a series of language and cultural reforms whereby the use of English was discouraged; this caused an out-migration of English-speakers and their companies, mainly to Ontario. During the 1980s, however, Montreal attracted many high-technology and financial services companies.

In 1980, Lévesque's plan for an independent Quebec, called sovereignty-association, was rejected in a provincial referendum by 60% of the voters. The PQ was returned to power in 1981, however, and in 1982 the provincial government refused to accept the new Canadian constitution. From 1985 to 1994, the Liberal party, led by Robert Bourassa and Daniel Johnson, controlled the assembly. In 1987 there appeared to be progress on the issue of Quebec separatism, when the Meech Lake Accord was signed, but the accord collapsed in 1990. A package of constitutional reforms was subsequently drafted by the Canadian government and presented to voters in a national referendum in Oct., 1992, but it was defeated.

In 1994 the PQ, now led by Jacques Parizeau, regained control of the provincial government. A referendum on independence was narrowly defeated in Oct., 1995. Parizeau announced his resignation and was replaced in 1996 by Lucien Bouchard, who had led the Bloc Québécois in Ottawa. Quebec was recognized by Parliament as a “distinct society” because of its language and culture and was granted a veto over constitutional amendments. Separatists said the changes were symbolic and vowed to continue their struggle. They suffered two blows in 1998, however, when Canada's Supreme Court ruled that Quebec could not legally secede on its own and the PQ's majority shrank in provincial elections.

In 1999 polls showed that support for secession had shrunk to about 40% of Quebec voters; in the Oct., 2000, national elections the Bloc Québécois received fewer votes than the Liberals for the first time since 1980. A federal law designed to make it harder for Quebec to secede was passed in July, 2000; it required that a clear majority support a clearly worded proposition and that borders, the seceding province's responsibility for a share of the national debt, and other issues be resolved by negotiations. In 2001, Bouchard resigned; he was succeeded as premier by the new PQ party leader, Bernard Landry. The Liberals, led by Jean Charest, decisively defeated the PQ in the Apr., 2003, elections, and Charest became premier. The Bloc Québécois scored gains in the June, 2004, national elections, but the vote was regarded more as a rejection of the Liberals than as support for secession.


----------



## Pisis (Jun 12, 2005)

this shit is everywhere... maybe its only my personal feeling, but it "sounds" very much Franchy-nature...


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 12, 2005)

Trudeau should have let the RCMP and/or the Army eliminate those freaks back in the '70's. 
This whole damn half-assed country is tearing itself apart. In what other developed country on earth would a separatist party be even _allowed_ to gain seats in federal politics?  

Maestro is right. The Bloc Québécois and their Parti Québécois predecessors have been nothing but right-wing francophone lunatics who want to break off from Canada and form their own quasi-fascist French language state! The federal government of this country has long given Québec far, far too much provincial sovereignty, trying to appease the separatists, and of course they only want more and more.The last simple-minded prime minister of ours, Jean Chrétien, added fuel to the fire with his so-called "national unity strategy" by pouring more and more federal money into Québec, while essentially telling the rest of the country to go fuck itself! 

It's on the verge of happening, I'm telling ya!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 12, 2005)

I had to go the "Qubec Immagration" every year to get my medical cards renewed (I was paying Canadian and Quebec taxes, of I should say my company was). Anyway I would love showing up to their offices wearing a 10 gallon cowboy hat, snakeskin cowboy boots, Wrangler Jeans, and a fringed swede jacket. Then I would tell them I was bi-lingial, I spoke "anglish" and "Texican." 

Once they challanged me for living there and I told them, "Oh we'll just pack up our program out of Canadair and move it to Toronto, that will be another 200 jobs Quebec will loose to Ontairo and I'll also make sure on the way out I send a press release to to Montreal Gazzette as well."


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 12, 2005)

They don't get it! Or they don't care, I don't know! They're not making many fast friends, I can tell you that! But the feds in Ottawa have been doing their share to fast track the process too, by bending over to them on nearly every occasion!
What the separatists _really_ want is to become a completely sovereign, self-governing state _within_ Canada. Their goal is to be completely free of their share of the national debt, while enjoying the benefits of Ottawa's "assistance". And the government just keeps giving, and giving, and giving, while everywhere else health care, education, and my personal favourite: _The military_, continues to suffer and grow worse!

Christ, no wonder people think Canada is f*cked! _I_ would!


----------



## Maestro (Jun 12, 2005)

trackend said:


> Please do Maestro i'm all ears (thats why I look revolting) no eyes or nose just ears.
> Seriously I would like to know Maestro



FBJ did a great job up there, but I'll try to add some more. By the way, I'm sorry you had to deal with those PQ assholes, FBJ. They really are f*ckers. When I passed my year in Industrial Drawing course, in 2001-2002, we had the same problem (because computer programs used to draw (i.e. AutoCAD) were in English version). For them everything must be French.

Of corse, I'm French-Canadian, but I get pissed-off when I see how the separatist minority (but that minority is controlling medias such as TV and radio as well as public schools) acts in front of everything that is NOT French, catholic, trade-unionist, separatist and fascist. Here are a few examples :

- War in Iraq : Québecers forced Jean Chrétien to NOT go at war beside USA and UK.

- In many public schools (most of the time ONLY in public schools), history teachers are telling their student how much Hitler was a great man and how we were forced by the bad English Canadians to go at war against our great German friend. (For the ones who did not got it, I was trying to be sarcastic.)

- On 9/11, some journalists said that it was *USA's fault*. They said that if USA was not threating Muslism like they did, they would never been attacked. And they defended the attack on _civilan_ lives by saying that USA killed a lot of civilan with their blockade on Muslism countries, so it was just a "money-back".

- When a 18 year old girl was arrested in an African country by trying to exchange false travel-checks around a year ago and was freed in March (if I remember well), she decided to write a book about her experience and Michel Brûlé, the president of the publishing company "Les Intouchables", (that guy is one of the greatest assholes I ever saw) said that the book is gonna tell how the Americans, with their Hollywoodian movies, hijacked her mind.

- Whatever USA does, they're always wrong...

- Whatever happen, it's always USA's fault...

The only thing these f*ckers are forgeting is that USA is our main Ally and our main customer (beef, wood, etc...). If they get pissed-off, like I would be if I was American, they would "close" their borders and let us die in our corner. Or it could be worst... Anyone ever heard about the word "war" ? It would be the shortest counter-attack ever !


----------



## trackend (Jun 12, 2005)

Thanks for the insight lads not the best way to make a country remain stable is it. I don't like separatist organizations that cherry pick off the back of the rest of a country while at the same time shouting Independence its not Independence its what we would call sponging.


----------



## Maestro (Jun 12, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> They don't get it! Or they don't care, I don't know! They're not making many fast friends, I can tell you that! But the feds in Ottawa have been doing their share to fast track the process too, by bending over to them on nearly every occasion!
> What the separatists _really_ want is to become a completely sovereign, self-governing state _within_ Canada. Their goal is to be completely free of their share of the national debt, while enjoying the benefits of Ottawa's "assistance". And the government just keeps giving, and giving, and giving, while everywhere else health care, education, and my personal favourite: _The military_, continues to suffer and grow worse!
> 
> Christ, no wonder people think Canada is f*cked! _I_ would!



That's an other side I forgot about.

If it continues like this, Québec _will_ become independent, but not because it wanted it : Québec will be *kicked out* of Canada.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 12, 2005)

Counter attack?! Yeah, that's a good one! With what?! Jesus Christ, we don't even have a real military anymore! It's just as well that moron Chrétien didn't commit us to Iraq, because he did everything in his power to destroy us (the Forces) while he could! We're a joke!

Sorry.  

What those separatists always fail to recognize is that Québecers aren't the only French-Canadians. Acadians live throughout Maritime Canada, and there are fairly large populations of Métis out west in Alberta and Saskatchewan. Even Manitoba has several francophone communities. They haven't exactly lost their language _or_ culture, despite what the BQ or PQ would love to preach!


----------



## Maestro (Jun 12, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Counter attack?! Yeah, that's a good one! With what?! Jesus Christ, we don't even have a real military anymore!



Well... We could throw rocks at them...


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 12, 2005)

I'm sure they'd be used rocks that were cheap.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 12, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> What those separatists always fail to recognize is that Québecers aren't the only French-Canadians. Acadians live throughout Maritime Canada, and there are fairly large populations of Métis out west in Alberta and Saskatchewan. Even Manitoba has several francophone communities. They haven't exactly lost their language _or_ culture, despite what the BQ or PQ would love to preach!



You know guys, you reminded me of when I was there and traveling through western NB. There were many "Francophone's" (I haven't used that world in a long time) who were friendly and easy to converse with. Although my French was limited, they were real easy to get along with, seemed privileged that I would attempt to converse with them in French (even though the conversation switched to English as they could barely understand me  ) and made no bones about feeling that NB was a true "bilingual Provence," and how they hated the PQ and the way they treated the rest of English Canada. One guy told me that he avoided talk about Canada when he was in the US as he didn't wanted to be mistaken for those PQ assholes! He said the separatists have forever given the rest of French Canada a bad name!

You know, I've always felt that many years ago the PQ had a chance to "Put it right," and establish "sane" French language rights in Quebec, but instead it seems they want to "Punish" the English-speaking and anyone who used English. You would of though that after the 1980 referendum the PQ would of put it to rest, but this shows just how stupid they really are!


----------



## Maestro (Jun 12, 2005)

Yeah, New-Brunswick citizens are easy to get along with. Most English speaks French and most French speaks English. So there is not much problems to be understood.

Like I said in an other thread : "If I was gambler, I could bet 100$ that PQ is gonna put a "Referendary Election" for the next one. Because they are almost sure to be elected because of the Gommery Affair and they want Québec to be a country so bad that they don't bother to start a civil war."

Oh, and you're right. English in Québec are treated like criminals. We're not far away from Nazi extermination camps... It may be a rotten analogy, but it's looking that way.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 12, 2005)

New Brunswick has the right idea. As you said FBJ, they're the only officially bilingual province in the country, and they've been that way since the beginning of Confederation. Québec would have done well to follow that example way back when, instead of listening to the Lévesque assholes. Before the Bill 101 crap, which made French the only permissible language for use in everything from newspapers to road signs in Québec, there were many "anglophones" there. Not only have the English-Canadians been all but forced out, but many international corporations refuse to even do business there. Maestro made a good point with that earlier.

The Acadians of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick don't live in fear of cultural extinction. Far from it. They celebrate their culture every chance they get, and at the same time live side by side with everyone else. They're an integral part of Nova Scotian and New Brunswick society.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 12, 2005)

Yea, you guys are reminding me of my days in Montreal. Where I lived in Pointe Claire, I had a rooftop apartment and had a Canadian, Quebec and US flag flying off the roof. The apartment manager said that some PQ asshole that lived in the building got offended by the flags. I went out and got a pirate flag - skull and crossbones and flew it for a week, until the manager aksed be to put the original flags back! 8)


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 12, 2005)

Right on!
I'd have ripped down that Québec flag so fast (no offence Maestro  ) it would've made his head spin! 'Course, I'd have replaced it with the NS flag.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 12, 2005)

It did cross my mind, but as the apartment manager told me, you showed that jerkoff that you're a lot better than him.

When I used to meet PQ jerkoffs while living in Montreal, they would always site a fear of their culture being eclipsed by the rest of Canada and the US. Then I would tell them "why the hell do you go to Florida every winter?" Never a response back!

I hate to say, but the only memorable legacy the PQ will produce (besides having members saying incredible stupid things) is the ability to find and immediate replace English road signs!


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 12, 2005)

They are freaks, there's no doubt about that. 
Oh, and by NS I actually meant Nova Scotia not National Socialist, but that would've worked too in the case you described.


----------



## Maestro (Jun 12, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Right on!
> I'd have ripped down that Québec flag so fast (no offence Maestro  ) it would've made his head spin! 'Course, I'd have replaced it with the NS flag.



Well, I could quote a famous Wing Commander character by saying :

"I don't feel offended. I rarely listen to what you have to say..." But I won't.  

No, honestly, I don't feel offended at all. I think the same thing.

In French we have an expression to designate a dictatorship by calling it a "Bananas Republic". Well, did you ever noticed that the flower on the Québec flag (Fleur de Lys) looks like an half-peeled banana ?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 13, 2005)

Maestro said:


> In French we have an expression to designate a dictatorship by calling it a "Bananas Republic". Well, did you ever noticed that the flower on the Québec flag (Fleur de Lys) looks like an half-peeled banana ?


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 13, 2005)

Cute. 
BTW, it's not the flag that offends me. I see nothing wrong with it at all, as it's just a provincial flag. What gets me are the principles of the PQ and BQ. I just want to make that clear. I have good buddies from Québec, and they're as nationalist as they come.


----------



## plan_D (Jun 13, 2005)

You all do realise that Scotland and Wales are wanting to seperate from England, dissolving the United Kingdom right? England is giving Wales and Scotland many, many, many benefits that England doesn't get just to keep them from voting to be seperate. 

All Scotland and Wales want is to be seperate but still have all the benefits of being part of the U.K. Personally, I think if they want to seperate then let them. Let's see how long Wales and Scotland can last on their own...


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 13, 2005)

Northern Ireland is the obvious one that everybody knows about, but I thought all of the separation stuff with Scotland had been resolved a long time ago. Obviously I was wrong. Didn't know about Wales.

As is undoubtedly the case between England and the other parts of the UK, Canada needs Québec as much as they need Canada. Too much of the national interest is invested in that province to simply expect prosperity if they were to simply walk. We shouldn't even be entertaining the possibility of letting them. I can tell you that Atlantic Canada would be in dire trouble from the get go!
Likewise, an independent Québec - A _truly_ independent Québec - would quickly become a third world shit hole. They'd be excluded from Canada, the United States wouldn't do business with the BQ regime, France can't stand them and vice versa...It's a doomed plan.


----------



## Maestro (Jun 13, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Cute.
> BTW, it's not the flag that offends me. I see nothing wrong with it at all, as it's just a provincial flag. What gets me are the principles of the PQ and BQ. I just want to make that clear. I have good buddies from Québec, and they're as nationalist as they come.



I know... I was only pointing the "banana thing" out.


----------



## Maestro (Jun 13, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> As is undoubtedly the case between England and the other parts of the UK, Canada needs Québec as much as they need Canada. Too much of the national interest is invested in that province to simply expect prosperity if they were to simply walk. We shouldn't even be entertaining the possibility of letting them. I can tell you that Atlantic Canada would be in dire trouble from the get go!
> Likewise, an independent Québec - A _truly_ independent Québec - would quickly become a third world s**t hole. They'd be excluded from Canada, the United States wouldn't do business with the BQ regime, France can't stand them and vice versa...It's a doomed plan.



I agree with you 100%. Although I wonder how Atlantic Canada would go after this... Would New-Brunswick, New-Foundland and Nova Scotia form a new country ? Would they stay within Canada ? I don't know.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 13, 2005)

I don't even like to think about it. 
We'd be lost, pure and simple.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 13, 2005)

I heard there was a PQ member who wanted to flood the province with US cash and then ask the US to make Quebec a commonweatlth like Puerto Rico in hope language rights world be established. Was this Paraseau? Unique idea, but still very stupid!

Found this on the PQ site, what BS!

FIVE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE PARTI QUÉBÉCOIS WANTS QUÉBEC TO BECOME A SOVEREIGN COUNTRY.


1. What does The Parti Québécois want?
The Parti Québécois wants Québec to become a sovereign country and for it to have all the political, judicial and fiscal instruments to become master of its own destiny. It wants the government to be able to legitimately promote and defend the interests of the Québec people, and participate in international forums, like other nations, a necessity more and more pronounced in the context of globalization. Québec is the only North American State where Francophones constitute the majority of the population, and where a specific model of culture, development, institutions, legal system and civil law exists. The sovereignty project is legitimate, as recognized by the Canadian Supreme Court in August 1998 and Canada has, according this Court, an obligation to negotiate in good faith Quebec's accession to sovereignty.



2. Where does the Québec sovereignty project come from?
Since the birth of Canada in 1867, there have always been supporters of independence who thought Québec was not just another province within the Canadian borders, but rather constituted a nation and should become a country. Negotiations in the 1960's to amend Canada's Constitution in order to recognize Québec as one of the founding nations and to give it the necessary powers to develop itself within Canada failed. These failures occurred even when negotiations were conducted by Québec federalist governments in favour of Québec staying within Canada. Elected in 1976, the Parti Québécois government held a referendum on sovereignty in 1980, obtaining 40.6% support. In 1982, Canada modified its Constitution without National Assembly's and the Québec government's assent. To this day, no Québec political party has accepted to adhere to this Constitution. In 1994, the Parti Québécois regained power and in 1995 held another referendum, where the support for sovereignty climbed to 49.4%. On November 30th, 1998, the Parti Québécois was re-elected and once again formed the government.



3. Why does the Parti Québécois still want Québec to achieve sovereignty ?
Since the October 1995 referendum, the governments of Canada have ignored the will of the people of Québec to reform Canadian federalism. The federal government in Ottawa decided to maintain the status quo, accentuating problems which have existed for the last forty years. Furthermore, this government has multiplied attacks against Québec and continues to intervene in its areas of its exclusive jurisdiction, which causes severe problems in the planning of public services. It has also attempted to intimidate the Québec population by threatening not to recognize any future referendum result, notwithstanding the fact that Québec's democratic traditions are flawless and that its legislation on the financing of political parties and referendums are exemplary.



4. Who in Québec is considered a Quebecker?
Québec nationalism is not ethnic but civic. All citizens residing on Québec territory are Quebeckers. Québec has a Charter of Rights and Freedoms which guarantees equality to all citizens. Québec's official language is French and new immigrants are obligated by law to send their children to French-speaking schools. The English-speaking community has its own complete educational system, from preschool to university, and has access to all services in its own language. It manages on their own its learning, health and social services institutions, along with numerous radio and television stations, newspapers and magazines. As for Aboriginal nations, Québec's National Assembly recognized in 1985 the existence of eleven aboriginal nations, along their right of self-government. Conventions and agreements were concluded with a number of aboriginal nations in matters related to education and health and provide also for joint economical development projects.



5. How will Québec position itself in international matters?
Already open to the world by its active participation in the international community, in international forums and through cooperation, development and humanitarian assistance, Québec wishes to continue all treaties and agreements to which Canada is a party. It intends to become member and participate fully in the work of international organizations and conferences. In its trade relations, it will be respectful of human rights, democracy and social justice. Its vision of globalization includes the respect for diversity and the promotion and protection of national identities, languages and cultures.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 13, 2005)

Looks real good on paper, don't it?
Well, except for the parts that are complete horse crap. 
Like most of it!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 13, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Looks real good on paper, don't it?
> Well, except for the parts that are complete horse crap.
> Like most of it!



Could you believe they put out this crap and had an ENGLISH tranlation! Talk about propaganda! It was frustrating but entertaining when I lived there, at least I knew eventually I would leave.


----------



## Maestro (Jun 14, 2005)

Yeah... And if it continue like this, I'll be traped here forever. You're lucky, FBJ.

The only reason Québec want to be Independent is to create a dictatorship. The word says it all : SOVEREIGNty... They want a king... Like Louis XIV who will tell them what to do.

What the PQ did :

- Bill 101 to make the English run away.

- Giving poor (I mean REALLY crappy) English courses in public schools, creating a "virtual Berlin Wall".

- Eliminated a complete year of high-school, preventing Québekers to go work in an other province/country. (Most work positions ask for a Grade 12, while our "general" educational system stops at Secondary 5 (equivalent to a Grade 11). To be accepted in a job outside Québec, we must have a year of CEGEP to equal the Grade 12. The lone way for a "Secondary 5er" to go work elsewhere is to get a job within a federal institution (i.e. RCMP).)

No wonder why we are the champion in suicide within Canada... WE'RE DOOMED !


----------



## plan_D (Jun 14, 2005)

Trying not to steal the thread here but;

NS, Wales isn't any worth to England. They bleed the country of resources and we're giving them more and more benefits to stay with us. They would not survive on their own, not a chance. 

Scotland is a bit better, they get more respect from England but they still wouldn't survive on their own. The Scottish like to think they would and a few I have encountered have put up a good argument about the commercial sector they have. In reality both they and Wales rely on England for the vast majority of their money. 

Both countries have numbers who wish to seperate. Both have political parties with the primary subject being their seperation from England. The Scottish seperatists are getting larger in number. 
It's been going up all of a sudden, calling someone British isn't accepted anymore among many people. It's normally met with a stubborn, "I'm not British, I'm English" or "I'm not British, I'm Welsh" etc. 

Personally I don't care. I was born in Scotland but my family is English. If Wales and Scotland seperated it wouldn't bother me nor would it affect England in comparison to what it would them. They want the benefits of the U.K but they don't want to be in it. 

Do you see Scotland (5,000,000 pop.) with any power in the E.U?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 14, 2005)

Maybe Scotland, Wales and Quebec could merge and form their own country?


----------



## plan_D (Jun 14, 2005)

They should! What a collection, French, Welsh and Scottish. That'd be confusion in a war. You'd have the French trying to run away, the Scottish trying to charge forward and the Welsh looking for any nearby sheep to...well let's just say sheep don't make that kind of noise normally.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 14, 2005)




----------



## Medvedya (Jun 14, 2005)

Only a tiny minority of complete toss-pots who've watched Braveheart too many times would want full Scottish Independence. Scotland already has it's own parliament, tax-raising powers, education system, legal system, different banknotes.... to cut a long story short, they get far more out of this arrangement than the English do, and all Scots secretly (and not secretly) know this. 

But what of it? My ancestry is from the Borders - which is a cut above either Scottish or English! Heh heh heh!


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 14, 2005)

I remember reaching into my pocket over there and pulling out several Scottish pounds, thinking "Wow, isn't that interesting?". There was definitely a strong sense of pride evident amongst the English and Scottish I'd met, for their cultural differences. Much like various parts of Canada in that way.

Oh, and the Québec, Scotland, Wales merger would never work. Could you just see a fellow in a kilt and beret, reeking of Drakkar Noir, speaking French with a Gaelic accent? ...Or was that Gaelic with a French accent? 

BTW, I'll say this for Québecers. They're not cowardly in a fight, and I'm not just saying that for Maestro's benefit. No way. 
Interesting how they and the French (from France) hate each other so much.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 14, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Oh, and the Québec, Scotland, Wales merger would never work. Could you just see a fellow in a kilt and beret, reeking of Drakkar Noir, speaking French with a Gaelic accent? ...Or was that Gaelic with a French accent?



You could find that on Ste Catharines on Sat Night


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 14, 2005)




----------



## Maestro (Jun 14, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Interesting how they and the French (from France) hate each other so much.



Och... You would still be surprised to see how Québekers can lick the ass of French sometimes... Especially the separatists. The mayor of Québec City is the perfect example. That asshole renamed a boulvard in the city and named it the "Boulevard Louis XIV", he asked a couple millions contribution to France's President for the 400th anniversary of Québec City in 2008, he make something like 2 trips by years in France, and he built and installed a statue of an other asshole (Charles De Gaulle) in front of the town hall !

No need to say that this statue got some troubles... (Paint was thrown at it, a little smart-ass even wrote the following sentence : "Le sang des Canadiens à Dieppe, tu peux sourire vieux pirate." (Translation : "Canadians' blood at Dieppe, you can smile old pirate."))


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 14, 2005)

It's amazing! I left Montreal in early 1987, I thought the whole separatist thing would of subsided by now, it seems it got worse!

When I went on the PQ website the other day I wanted to ask them why have an English page?!? I know it's propaganda, but it would be like having Himler publish a newspaper in Yiddish!


----------



## Maestro (Jun 15, 2005)

I know...

What I think is that PQ did that to make less intelligent French beleive that they are not Facists. Seeing an English version, they could think : "Hey, may be they are not that bad..."

The bad thing is that those jerks have the right to vote !


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 15, 2005)

Maestro said:


> ...and he built and installed a statue of an other asshole (Charles De Gaulle) in front of the town hall !


Even though he was booed out of Québec back in '68! 
The prick tried to get them to join France!



Maestro said:


> No need to say that this statue got some troubles... (Paint was thrown at it, a little smart-ass even wrote the following sentence : "Le sang des Canadiens à Dieppe, tu peux sourire vieux pirate." (Translation : "Canadians' blood at Dieppe, you can smile old pirate."))


Beautiful!
Although it seems to me that that's another thing with the separatists, and you've indicated it about them too. They couldn't care less about the struggle of the veterans! Not even Québécois veterans! 

So what you're saying is that the separatists are in fact warming up to France now?


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 15, 2005)

Maybe those assholes would do well to remember this! Plenty of Québécois were there too!
http://www.onf.ca/enclasse/dday/dday.html

Link courtesy of trackend. 


And if those BQ pricks honestly think that these guys are going along for the ride, they're completely f*cked! They're as canadien as they come brother!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 15, 2005)

Well ya know when I was there (Montreal) in 83-87, I some "sepies" ask about me being drafted and how I could serve in the US Army, they didn't even know that the US didn't have a draft anymore?!?


----------



## Maestro (Jun 15, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Although it seems to me that that's another thing with the separatists, and you've indicated it about them too. They couldn't care less about the struggle of the veterans! Not even Québécois veterans!



Well, approximatly 90% of all separatists think that WW II was not "our" war. They think it was an "English War" made by the British Empire to save it's own ass. They think they were not concerned and that it was a scandal to force Québekers to go at war against their Hitlerian friends. Because most separatists think Hitler was a hero.  

The "Charles De Gaule's statue thing" is a long story though, and could be taken in different ways.

In the 60s, when that asshole came to Montréal, he declared during his speech (in front of hundreds of PQ minions (and in French)) : "I feel like in Paris during the Liberation. Live to Québec... (Crowd applauds) Live to FREE Québec ! (Crowd applauds)"

So, was it a federalist angry about that declaration ? Was it a separatist angry about Québec role in WW II ? Was it an Imperialist angry because of De Gaulle attitude in front of the British before and in the early months of the war ? (Yeah, he spent a long time to piss on British.) We'll never know.


----------



## Maestro (Jun 15, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> So what you're saying is that the separatists are in fact warming up to France now?



Yeah. In fact, a few of them thinks that it would have been better for us if we never been part of the Commonwealth. They prefer to lick French ass.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 15, 2005)

_Force_ Québecers to go to war? Most of them were volunteers! Sure some were conscripted as the war dragged on, just like men all over Canada, but many of them _chose_ to fight! They were Canadians! More separatist bullshit!

Although I could probably see how some of those recruiting posters with the Union Jack might not go over so well in Québec.


----------



## Maestro (Jun 15, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> _Force_ Québecers to go to war? Most of them were volunteers!



I know. But the fact that Canadians voted for the conscription give them the "good side".

By the way, most English-Canadians voted _for_ the conscription while a majority of Québekers voted _against_ it.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 15, 2005)

I find that a bit strange, myself. The numbers I mean. Québec has always had a huge chunk of the national population, but look at the proportion of anglophone troops to francophone troops during WWII. The overwhelming majority of them were still anglophones, even with conscription. I would have expected an anglo majority, but the numbers still seem a bit lopsided to me.

But then again, I suppose I can understand it after all. Historically, French-Canadians were subjected to some degree of prejudice by English-Canadians, particularly in the armed forces back then. It certainly isn't like that nowadays, but at the time Canada _was_ very much pro-British Empire, and the assimilation of French-Canadians into a British style military didn't always go easily. The Navy in particular was especially brutal towards "Frenchmen". The government didn't make things any easier, and I've always felt that a little less "God Save the King" and a little more "O Canada" should have been emphasized back then. In fact both my grandfather and great-uncle, who fought in the war, agree with this.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 15, 2005)

The Essex Scottish Regiment of Windsor (80% casualties in 70 minutes at Dieppe) was about one third French Canadian.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 15, 2005)

And that didn't help matters either, when it came to recruiting afterward. But despite what many separatists like to believe, they weren't sent in en masse because they were considered to be any more expendable than anyone else. They were landing in France and they spoke French. They were a natural choice.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 15, 2005)

Yep - It makes sense to most people, but this is used for separatist propaganda and many buy this BS. All the Francophone WW2 vets that I met were proud of what they done, supported a united Canada and always thought most of the PQ were "Commies!"


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 15, 2005)

Those men fought for something: CANADA!


----------



## Maestro (Jun 15, 2005)

Agreed.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 15, 2005)

You know I hate to say this but I think the separatists need to be put in a situation where they see their province in immediate danger, either by a major natural disaster, outside terrorists or an invading force (other than the US I hope  ). See how quick the Ottawa Government or the Canadian Armed Forces become very popular! 8)


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 15, 2005)

It's been done. The Armed Forces were there to help after the flooding in the Saguenay region and after the huge ice storms, in the '90's. They were also there to quell the Oka uprising (if you could really call it that.  ) in 1990.
But let's not forget the FLQ crisis in 1970. 
Oh, to have a prime minister with guts again!

And believe me, the government in Ottawa is loved enough by the BQ. More money gets thrown into Québec than just about anywhere else. 

(God, I`ve been using the roly-eyed smiley an awful lot lately.  )


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 15, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> It's been done. The Armed Forces were there to help after the flooding in the Saguenay region and after the huge ice storms, in the '90's. They were also there to quell the Oka uprising (if you could really call it that.  ) in 1990.
> But let's not forget the FLQ crisis in 1970.
> Oh, to have a prime minister with guts again!



Oh, I remember the FLQ crisis, Trudeau didn't mess around! No I think it really has to be on a cataclysmic scale where their whole lifestyle is severely altered for awhile! Then you'll see how quick the tune changes!

I think those jerk-offs don't realize how good they really have it being part of Canada. They act as if they are being severely persecuted within their own Province, I could never understand it. Some of the PQ people I met when I lived in Montreal seemed highly educated, but truly believed their own BS. As my dad used to say "So smart but yet so stupid."


----------



## Maestro (Jun 16, 2005)

Well, in fact it was almost that. The two principal separatist regions are the French part of Montréal (Ice Storm) and the Saguenay/Lac St-Jean (Floodings). And it didn't really changed anything. I think it's because Canadian Army is being seen as a bunch of guys who are only there to help. Some soldiers even forgot their primary role : TO FIGHT.

That's why the smartest guys/gals go away and never returns, while the jerks stay here.

As soon as I get my "full" driver's licence (hopefully in February (I'm still on the probationary one)), I'll write a bunch of job request letters. I'll send some in US and the rest in other provinces. I _will_ get out of here one way or an other... The only questions are _how_ and _where_.

Before you ask me why the f*ck I'm waiting for my "full" licence, well, it's because it's easier to exchange a "full" driver's licence for an other one than a probationary one.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 16, 2005)

Maestro said:


> Well, in fact it was almost that. The two principal separatist regions are the French part of Montréal (Ice Storm) and the Saguenay/Lac St-Jean (Floodings). And it didn't really changed anything. I think it's because Canadian Army is being seen as a bunch of guys who are only there to help. Some soldiers even forgot their primary role : TO FIGHT.
> 
> That's why the smartest guys/gals go away and never returns, while the jerks stay here.
> 
> ...



Well Maestro, I totally understand, If you need any help, let us know! I met many people who felt like you when I was there and eventually they left as well. It's a shame, there is so much potential there, but yet a few ignorants are driving the province straight to hell!


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 16, 2005)

And unfortunately the rest of the country right along with it. So many resources have been squandered over the years trying to essentially bribe Québec into staying with Canada. I don't mean any disrespect by that Maestro (Hell, Nova Scotia ain't exactly self-sufficient.  ), and I know full well that not every Québecer is a separatist or anything, it's just that the PQ and later on the BQ have had the federal government wrapped around their fingers for decades. They're not fools you know. They know exactly how to play Ottawa. Hell, they're _in_ Ottawa!
The only prime minister who even _remotely_ stood up to them was Pierre Trudeau, and all he ever really managed to do was to stop the FLQ terrorists. René Lévesque was just too charming. He knew how to play on the basic frustrations that French Québecers had had since Confederation.

I _will_ admit to this though. Lévesque's actions did see to true equality and recognition for French-Canadians. There's no denying that. But unfortunately, that wasn't enough for him.


----------



## Maestro (Jun 16, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Well Maestro, I totally understand, If you need any help, let us know! I met many people who felt like you when I was there and eventually they left as well. It's a shame, there is so much potential there, but yet a few ignorants are driving the province straight to hell!



Thanks for the offer. But honestly, I doupt I will ever find a job in the US. Of corse I'll try, but I doupt I will succeed.

Most employers (especially in my kind of work) don't want to bother with immigration process. And I never went to University, so...

Hopefully, I wish to find a job within a Police Department (no matter in US or Canada). If I fail there, I'll try as a Federal Correctionnal Officer. And if I fail there... Well... Damnit ! I'll become a mercenary.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 16, 2005)

Maestro said:


> And if I fail there... Well... Damnit ! I'll become a mercenary.


Good luck with it!


----------



## Maestro (Jun 17, 2005)

Personnally, I prefer that to work in an army with crappy equipment. No offence, NS.

Would you see me in a sub ? Especially when we know that I'm the kind of guy who sleeps with windows wide open...


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 17, 2005)

Well, I can't say that I blame you. A _lot_ of people feel that way these days, and justifiably so I think. The day will come again soon when we're really needed, only by then it'll be too late. You can't just build an effective force overnight. It takes time, training, experience, and *money*. 

In fact, we're really needed today more than ever. The post 9/11 world requires us to do our part, but a certain ex-prime minister didn't quite see the need to build us up or to improve our capabilities. He saw to just the opposite, actually. Will Mr. Martin do the right thing? (If he's around long enough.)
I guess that all depends on a lot of things, not the least of which is Stephen Harper and the Alliance. And of course...*the Bloc!* 

Oh, the joys of a minority government.


----------



## Maestro (Jun 17, 2005)

Let's hope Harper will win next elections. That's the lone one who could do something for the Army. Unfortunatelly, Québec will still vote for the Bloc and Ontario will still vote for Liberals. Other provinces don't have enough power to affect something. So our Liberal mafiosis will still rule the country.

Philosophical question # 15648 : Can a country that we already know the election results be called a democracy ?


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 17, 2005)

Do you realize how long it's been since we've had a Nova Scotian prime minister? 
That's just what we need! We already have a Newfoundlander as the Chief of the Defence Staff. We'd rule the world in no time!


----------



## Maestro (Jun 17, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Do you realize how long it's been since we've had a Nova Scotian prime minister?
> That's just what we need! We already have a Newfoundlander as the Chief of the Defence Staff. We'd rule the world in no time!



I'll send your first question back :

With what ? Our sinking subs, our rusty F-18s, our cheap tanks or our falling Seakings ?


----------



## plan_D (Jun 18, 2005)

Erm, Canada...we need your help, Britain is a tad over-stretched at the moment. I know we've asked in both World Wars but we need your help now too...*looking at your equipment*....hmmm...no it's alright we'll ask someone else. 

But seriously, Britain is extremely overstretched. Dumb politicians.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 18, 2005)

Maestro said:


> With what ? Our sinking subs, our rusty F-18s, our cheap tanks or our falling Seakings ?


I hate to say it, but you're right on almost every count. 
The Leopard tanks aren't exactly junk though, just old. Same with the F-18's. Those are the biggest problems right there: We wait too long to update or replace equipment, and we don't have enough of it. Even the Sea Kings were a great helicopter in their day. They're still a useful design, good for SAR, but they're not so great for ASW anymore and the examples that we have are far beyond their expected service life. Chrétien again. 
Martin has at least committed to new helos for the ships with the Cyclones, but the first delivery isn't due until 2008. Why so long? Who the hell knows. 
Supposedly the Army is to get newer Leopard tanks, although when is any body's guess. The CF-18's are finally due for replacement in 2017.

But what we desperately need as well is a heavy airlift capability which we sorely lack! We have no way to move heavy equipment or massed troops on our own at the moment, and usually pay the Americans to do it for us. Pride in the service?  
The Navy is earmarked for new heavy transport ships, but I'll believe that when I see it. I doubt I'll still be in by then.


----------



## Maestro (Jun 18, 2005)

The problem with the Canadian Army is that they buy used equipment. They bought used subs from Britain (they were about to dump them), used jeeps from Italians (Do you beleive it ? ITALIAN CRAP !). All we need now is used French machine guns.

"For sale ! For sale ! French machine guns, never used, dropped only once."


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jun 18, 2005)

Not all of our crap is used. But which jeeps are you talking about? The Iltis was German and brand new, and those G-Wagons are new as well. They're Austrian. The Iltis wasn't always used correctly by the Army. It's not an armoured vehicle, it's a light jeep. It's not supposed to provide too much protection. As for the G-Wagon, I don't think it's crap necessarily. If you're thinking of that incident in Afghanistan where the boys ran over a landmine in one, that doesn't make the vehicle crap. Again, it's a jeep. Don't get _too_ caught up in the media hype. To them, any time someone gets killed in the field it's due to sh*tty equipment or lack of training.
That's not usually the case.


----------



## Maestro (Jun 20, 2005)

Well, I always thought they were Italians.

But anyway, who can trust a war vehicle built by Italians ? Don't forget that the Italian Army was always considered like a crappy army. A few years ago, even _Canadian_ soldiers laughed at them.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jun 20, 2005)

Never saw these did you Maestro  All styate Italian superiority


----------



## Maestro (Jun 20, 2005)

"Italians do it better"... the "it" isn't specified, so it could be anything... 

Cooking ?
Picking up girls ?
Corrupting Canadian ministers ?

Anything !


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 20, 2005)

Maestro said:


> "Italians do it better"... the "it" isn't specified, so it could be anything...
> 
> Cooking ?
> Picking up girls ?
> ...



Opening up resturants on the north end of Rue Lawrenace 

Oh wait - those are the Greeks!


----------

