# happy 4th of july



## pbfoot (Jul 4, 2006)

230 years and going strong (please no fire works tonight it caused me a great deal of agro last night)


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 4, 2006)

Hope it was a good one, boys!


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 4, 2006)

Speaking of fireworks, I came across this live footage on tv of fireworks somewhere in the states, that was crazy, those guys went all out

By the way notice how all of the guys on the 4th of july thread so far are all canadian?


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## evangilder (Jul 4, 2006)

Not anymore!  Most are probably enjoying the fireworks in their towns right now. Ours were last night, so I got a jump on fireworks photos.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 5, 2006)

Pretty cool. I caught the 4th of July fireworks in Charleston, SC last year, and it was a great display. What made it grander was the fact that each of the nearby towns had their own firework displays, so it was like one gigantic show. They were everywhere at once. 

It was a great show. It beat the Halifax Canada Day display hands down.


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## Tiger (Jul 5, 2006)

Hope you Yanks had a good one!


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## plan_D (Jul 5, 2006)

Don't encourage them, Tiger!


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## Maestro (Jul 5, 2006)

Yeah... Happy 4th of July.


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## trackend (Jul 5, 2006)

Sorry guys I forgot Happy 4th "down with the British". 
Last time I came over was during early July a few years ago had a great time with the locals on the 4th in Kissimee all the holiday makers went charging off to Disney but we head down to the lakes and joined in the fun, only thing I found a bit odd was that me and the missus where the only people to stand for the national anthem (that also seems to happen alot in the UK to us )


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## plan_D (Jul 5, 2006)

Jesus christ, another Brit encouraging the damn Colonists to rebel! Didn't you get mocked for being British, Lee? Or was it just mocking for being you?

Happy 4th of July, you bastards.


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 5, 2006)

Ohhhhhhh! damn!!!


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## plan_D (Jul 5, 2006)

What? That's the U.S flag, right?


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## lesofprimus (Jul 5, 2006)

[email protected] Brit bas*ard... Dont think it'd be funny me shoving that flag up ur @ss.....

On second thought, the screams probably would make it slightly hilarious...

It was a great night, blowing off 500 bucks worth of Artillery shells and sh*t... Had a Friend come back from Mexico with 7 different Tequilas, and Jesus they tasted fine....

Happy 4th to all my countrymen, and as George Washington once said, "Fu*k the British, let them eat soap..."


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 5, 2006)

Yes, and any Yanks who remain "Empire Loyalists" may cross over here. Gotta keep up that fine Canadian tradition of accepting the world's garbage. 

Actually that's not really funny at all, but what the hell.


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## Henk (Jul 5, 2006)

Happy 4th of July you American bastards.  
Hope you enjoyed it. 

Hope that this 4th of July will be a lucky day for the crew of the Space Shuttle Discovery. Wishing them all the luck in the world.


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## plan_D (Jul 5, 2006)

No it wouldn't be funny. But sparking off emotions with that flag was f*ckin' hilarious. 

I was only kidding. Happy 4th of July, America! Protect your freedom for another 230 years.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Jul 6, 2006)




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## lesofprimus (Jul 6, 2006)

And wtf does those 3 cars supposed to represent SW???


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## lesofprimus (Jul 6, 2006)

Oh, nevermind, red white and blue....


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 6, 2006)

The French Flag


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 6, 2006)

The cars are Camaros not Citrons!!!!!


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 7, 2006)

102first_hussars said:


> The French Flag


Also Russia, Holland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Taiwan, North Korea, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Iceland...

Oh piss on it, there's too many to list.


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 7, 2006)

And then you got the stars and stripes 

God bless Australia


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## Pisis (Jul 7, 2006)

God bless me.
Happy Independence Day!


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 7, 2006)

God help us all, nevertheless I envy the independance day celebrations, us canadians try to be as commited but cant seem to keep up with you yanks


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 7, 2006)

That's because they earned it the hard way. They made a stand for their independence, while we just kinda took it bit by bit over a much longer period. Like we've discussed before, we still have official (though entirely ceremonial) ties to the British Crown too. With us it's like "The maple leaf forever!" and "God save the queen!" all at the same time. Then throw in the French sovereigntists for good measure. No wonder we're so damn f*cked up. 

Anyhoo, God bless America and all of you American type people. Ya seem to be doing a fair job of it so far.


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 8, 2006)

Nonskimmer said:


> That's because they earned it the hard way. They made a stand for their independence, while we just kinda took it bit by bit over a much longer period. Like we've discussed before, we still have official (though entirely ceremonial) ties to the British Crown too. With us it's like "The maple leaf forever!" and "God save the queen!" all at the same time. Then throw in the French sovereigntists for good measure. No wonder we're so damn f*cked up.
> 
> Anyhoo, God bless America and all of you American type people. Ya seem to be doing a fair job of it so far.



That is true, but Canada earned alot of its independance in blood as well, but you talk of the quebecers as if they are a boil on Canadas *ss, (they are sort of) but Im proud of _our_ french, Canada holds the highest population of french people who _didnt_ surrender to the germans, and that my fellow yanks and Anglos all around is a ****ing accomplishment


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 8, 2006)

102first_hussars said:


> That is true, but Canada earned alot of its independance in blood as well


What the hell are you talking about? When did we ever fight the British? We were the ones who remained loyal to King George III while the Yanks were shooting at redcoats. Ever heard of the Empire Loyalists? They were anyone from the southern colonies (that would become the US) who remained loyal to the Crown, and they took refuge in Upper Canada and Nova Scotia for the most part. _Our_ independence from Britain came gradually through diplomatic means, not revolution.




102first_hussars said:


> but you talk of the quebecers as if they are a boil on Canadas *ss


No I don't. I talk of the French _sovereigntists/seperatists_ as if they're a boil on our a*s. Get it straight. Some of my best buds are Québeckers. 



102first_hussars said:


> Canada holds the highest population of french people who _didnt_ surrender to the germans, and that my fellow yanks and Anglos all around is a ****ing accomplishment


Yep.


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## Maestro (Jul 10, 2006)

Nonskimmer said:


> What the hell are you talking about? When did we ever fight the British? We were the ones who remained loyal to King George III while the Yanks were shooting at redcoats. Ever heard of the Empire Loyalists? They were anyone from the southern colonies (that would become the US) who remained loyal to the Crown, and they took refuge in Upper Canada and Nova Scotia for the most part. _Our_ independence from Britain came gradually through diplomatic means, not revolution.



Hmmm... You have a more polite way to describe Loyalists than I do. However, I agree with you.

I think our Western brother is mistaking _Independence_ and _responsible gouvernment_. The lone rebellion Canada ever had against the British Empire was the Patriots' rebellion of 1837-1838. And it was the biggest failure in the history of Canadian warfare.

Sh*t ! 200 or 300 of underarmed rebels against three or four complete companies of redcoats. And we were supposed to win against them ? Yeah, sure !


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 10, 2006)

Ah yes. Louis Joseph Papineau, the great grand daddy of the seperatist movement, and William Lyon Mackenzie, a drunken Scotsman. The great Canadian rebellion. I'd actually forgotten about that. What a farce. Good to see things don't change much.


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 10, 2006)

I was never talking about fighting the British, I was talking about fighting for the British, as the Boer war to the end of the second world war we gained more control over our own decisions, foriegn affairs, we were the first dominion to have its own navy for christ sakes


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## Maestro (Jul 10, 2006)

102first_hussars said:


> ... as the Boer war to the end of the second world war we gained more control over our own decisions...



In fact it's from the Boer war to the end of the *First* World War. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Canada became independent from Great-Britain in the Inter-war years... In 1927, if I remember well. Even if we only got our current flag in the 50s.


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## pbfoot (Jul 10, 2006)

1931 Treaty of Westminister and 1965/64 we changed from the red ensign


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 10, 2006)

Leave it to a buncha guys from Canada to spoil a perfectly good 4th of July thread by turning it into a Canadian circus. Me, me, me, me, us, us, us, us! Hey, look at us everyone! Ha! 

Yes, so once again Happy Independence Day, America. Even if it's been a week already. 


So, where were we? Right, the independence thing. 


pbfoot said:


> 1931 Treaty of Westminister and 1965/64 we changed from the red ensign


It's _Statute_ of Westminster. The Treaty of Westminster was something totally different.

Ya know, regardless of statutes and what have you, we've really been more or less running our own show since not too long after Confederation in 1867. Like around 1871, with the Washington Treaty and the formation of the Canadian Army. You know we'd do basically whatever the hell we wanted anyway if our minds were made up, regardless of what the Brits said. That's just the way we are. 
Nine times out of ten though, we'd be right there by their side, like good little subjects of the king. The Statute of Westminster was more or less formality in our case, just like the repatriation of the constitution in '82. But it didn't just apply to us, it applied to Newfoundland (not part of Canada at the time), Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and Ireland. Britain more or less officially said, "Right, off you go. Have fun, and don't stray too far from home, ok?". They officially recognized us as equals.

As for flags, what's the difference with respect to independence? Australia and New Zealand still have the Union Jack in their flags. It doesn't mean sh*t. We just wanted something uniquely Canadian, that's all. In fact a lot of francophones still hate the fact that it's red and white only. They see them as English colours, because they were made the official colours of Canada by King George V. They'd be happier if it contained some blue, to represent the French part of our heritage.


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## Maestro (Jul 11, 2006)

Nonskimmer said:


> As for flags, what's the difference with respect to independence? Australia and New Zealand still have the Union Jack in their flags. It doesn't mean sh*t.



Well, personnally, I think that an independent country still having an Union Jack in their flag are still considering themselves as being King's minions... Even if they aren't.



Nonskimmer said:


> We just wanted something uniquely Canadian, that's all. In fact a lot of francophones still hate the fact that it's red and white only. They see them as English colours, because they were made the official colours of Canada by King George V. They'd be happier if it contained some blue, to represent the French part of our heritage.



In fact, I didn't even knew about the George V thing. It just prove that we were still taking orders from overseas. The flag was designed in the 60s and we were still doing as an English King (dead in 1936) wanted.

If I had been on the design team, I would have said : "Piss on the King ! Are we Independent or not ?"

If I had the choice, I would have chosen one of these two below.

I think the main problem in our country is that we, the Non-English, still see the English-Canadians as being attached to the British Crown. Get us rid of that idea and I can bet that you'll see the separatist movement drop from 48% to a thin 25% or even 10%.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 11, 2006)

You're right, we _do_ still see ourselves as the queen's minions. So do the Australians and New Zealanders, as a matter of fact.  
So what? It don't mean a damn thing.
I personally don't see anything wrong with our flag the way it is. 
I like it, and I'm no monarchist. The only ones who even give a sh*t about the colours are francos. Hell, most anglophones in Canada don't even know the historical significance of red and white, I'll guarantee it. Maybe one in seven or eight. Big freakin' deal.

Incidentally, that second example of yours with the three leaves was favoured by then Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson. It was known as the "Pearson Pennant".


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## trackend (Jul 11, 2006)

I'd never call you a minion Skim more of a minnow what with your watery connections, at least the silly cow don't cost you 68p every year out of your taxes.she should be bowing to us not the other way round .


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 11, 2006)

Well I can say our current flag is pretty original, we came close to using another red white and blue design,


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 11, 2006)

trackend said:


> at least the silly cow don't cost you 68p every year out of your taxes.


The Queen, no. The Governor General, yes. 



102first_hussars said:


> Well I can say our current flag is pretty original, we came close to using another red white and blue design,


Have you ever seen the book called I Stand For Canada? It's all about the current flag, and what led up to it's adoption in the first place. In it are some of the proposed flag designs that were looked at back then, and man oh man, there are a few charmers there, let me tell ya. 
One of them was nothing more than the Union Jack with four fleur-de-lis added, to represent the French. How f*cked up would _that_ have looked? Another one looked like the Norwegian flag. But Christ Almighty, some of them were just designed by people on speed! They had to have been! In amongst the crap were a few interesting proposals though, and almost every one of them centred around the maple leaf. That's long been a Canadian symbol, so it made perfect sense for the flag.


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## pbfoot (Jul 11, 2006)

well here is an original which I dug up from my relics


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 11, 2006)

Yep, the Pearson Pennant. It was one of the three finalists for the new flag, back in 1964-'65. The other two were, of course, our present flag, and one that was almost identical to the present flag except that it had the Union Jack in the upper left corner and a fleur-de-lis banner in the upper right. It looks hideous.

Another hum-dinger from the book here was just Québec's provincial flag with the Union Jack in the canton. Yeah, _that_ would have made everyone happy alright. Christ.


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## Henk (Jul 11, 2006)

Well boys if it were not for South Africa which said at the commonwealth meatthing that the Dominions should have the same rights and powers as Great Briton has we all would have still been totally ruled by the UK.


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 11, 2006)

Its interesting how you guys (south africa and US) struggled to be independant through suffering while Canada just politely asked "could we be independant" and britain said "Well since you asked nicely, I dont see why not" I know thats not exactly how it happened but we did ask them.


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## Henk (Jul 11, 2006)

We also gained it in 1961, we did not fight the Boer war to gain Independence we fought the invaders. The Boer States Transvaal and Vrystaat did not attack the British Armed forces they attacked the Boer States.

I must say that the UK did much for South Africa and the same goes for South Africa doing much for the UK.


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## Maestro (Jul 11, 2006)

Nonskimmer said:


> You're right, we _do_ still see ourselves as the queen's minions. So do the Australians and New Zealanders, as a matter of fact.
> So what? It don't mean a damn thing.



I have to desagree there. We cannot see ourselves as the King's/Queen's minions and *also* claim to be an independent country.

You see, that's the main reason why the separatist movement is so high in Québec (around 48%). If the English-Canadians really acted as Canadians instead of acting like "deportated Britons", the separatist percentage would drop like lead ballons. Why ? Because we never liked the idea of being ruled by a king living thousands of miles away from us. Even if it's more like a symbol now, the Queen of England is _still_ the Queen of Canada.

You want a strong and unified Canada ? Then get rid of the Governor General and Lieutenant Governors, get rid of all that royal bullsh*t like the _Royal_ Canadian Mounted Police, the _Royal_ 22nd Regiment, the _Royal_ Winnipeg Rifles, the _Royal_ Canadian Air Force, the _Royal_ Canadian Navy and so on... Why everything in Canada has to be _Royal_ ? That royally sucks !



Nonskimmer said:


> Incidentally, that second example of yours with the three leaves was favoured by then Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson. It was known as the "Pearson Pennant".



Yeah, I know. I typed "Alternate Canadian Flag" on Google and that's what came out.


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## pbfoot (Jul 11, 2006)

Actually you should be thankful for the British influence otherwise Quebec would have grown up to be like France an average country that country that pretends to be important


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## Henk (Jul 11, 2006)

LOL


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 11, 2006)

Maestro said:


> I have to desagree there. We cannot see ourselves as the King's/Queen's minions and *also* claim to be an independent country.


Why not? We _are_, and have been for many years now. It's just a f*cking symbol. 



> You see, that's the main reason why the separatist movement is so high in Québec (around 48%). If the English-Canadians really acted as Canadians instead of acting like "deportated Britons", the separatist percentage would drop like lead ballons.


Well then I'll tell you what. When the people of Québec stop acting like some kinda deported Maquis resistance fighters, I'll stop acting like a deported Briton. Hows that for a deal?

Deported Briton. Christ. F*ck off. 
We're every bit as f*cking Canadien as anyone else. Even those of us who still give a sh*t about the Queen. That wouldn't be me by the way, but that's not the point. I don't know how many more times I can say the same thing about the Queen: It's just symbolic. It *means nothing*.



> You want a strong and unified Canada ? Then get rid of the Governor General and Lieutenant Governors, get rid of all that royal bullsh*t like the _Royal_ Canadian Mounted Police, the _Royal_ 22nd Regiment, the _Royal_ Winnipeg Rifles, the _Royal_ Canadian Air Force, the _Royal_ Canadian Navy and so on... Why everything in Canada has to be _Royal_ ? That royally sucks !


I can take care of the Royal Canadian Air Force and Royal Canadian Navy for you right now.

<waves magic wand>

There, done. That was easy.


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## Henk (Jul 11, 2006)

Well Canada is still a dominion as far as I know so it has all the right to call it the Royal Navy and Royal Canadian Airforce. I am just glad that we are free of the UK influence here in SA, but in Zimbabwe they would have stayed longer and killed all those terrorest who think they are freedom fighters. Now look at the ruling freedom fighter named Robert Mugabe. @sshole.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 11, 2006)

*sigh* (Boy this is getting repetitive)

We're not a dominion. We have not been even remotely considered a dominion of Great Britain since April 17th, 1982. That's a large part of the reason that we no longer call July 1st Dominion Day. It's been Canada Day since 1983. We _do_ still *choose* to remain under the *ahem* "rule" of the Royal Family of England for the entirely *symbolic and ceremonial* reason that we as a nation in general presently consider it to be an important and honourable link with our heritage. There _are_ however many people, both of French *and English* heritage who disagree with this. Then there are those of us who view the entire matter of the Queen with a sort of reserved indifference. We know that at the end of the day, it really ain't that big of a deal.

Having said this, I for one happen to agree with Maestro when he says that the Governor General of Canada and all similar appointments are a completely useless and financially draining waste of time. On those terms, I agree that it's time to do away with all of that junk and move on to brighter and better things. 

Henk, the RCAF and RCN thing had to do with cost cutting and the consolidation of military resources back in the late '60's. The name change to Canadian Armed Forces was just a reflection of the new state of the military at the time.

I hope that we can all be the bestest of buds.


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## Henk (Jul 11, 2006)

Ok I see now Nonskimmer. As far I knew you guys were still a dominion, but I understand now.


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## Maestro (Jul 11, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> Actually you should be thankful for the British influence otherwise Quebec would have grown up to be like France an average country that country that pretends to be important



Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm thankful for the British influence over Québec. In fact, if the Brits had never won the Battle of the Abraham Plains, we would have ended as a Northern Haiti. Even now, I'm pretty sure that if ever Québec become Independent, we're gonna end up as either Haiti, the USSR or the Nazi Germany of 1939.

However, their time has come. We must get rid of all those useless symbols.


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## Maestro (Jul 11, 2006)

Nonskimmer said:


> Well then I'll tell you what. When the people of Québec stop acting like some kinda deported Maquis resistance fighters, I'll stop acting like a deported Briton. Hows that for a deal?
> 
> Deported Briton. Christ. F*ck off.
> We're every bit as f*cking Canadien as anyone else. Even those of us who still give a sh*t about the Queen. That wouldn't be me by the way, but that's not the point. I don't know how many more times I can say the same thing about the Queen: It's just symbolic. It *means nothing*.



Oh... Would I have hit the weak spot ?  

For sure some of us act like some deported Maqui fighters. I don't deny it. It just prove that we don't wanna stay in the shadow of the Empire. (Hey... That sounds like a Star Wars game title.  )

I know that the Queen is just symbolic. But it *does* mean something. It means that we are still attached to Great-Britain. Even if legally the Queen has no right over Canada, she has still a moral right since she is also Queen of Canada.

Now, I know that I'm being considered as an ******* by many Canucks for pissing on the Royal family. But I don't give a sh*t ! It's my opinion, and I share it.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 12, 2006)

Maestro said:


> Oh... Would I have hit the weak spot ?


Yeah, ya did. We're Canadians, that's all there is to it. Don't ever - EVER - suggest that I'm anything otherwise. If you can tell me how you're any better, I'm all ears buddy. Until then, don't even joke to me about it anymore.



> I know that the Queen is just symbolic. But it *does* mean something. It means that we are still attached to Great-Britain. Even if legally the Queen has no right over Canada, she has still a moral right since she is also Queen of Canada.


Alright, look. I can see that the whole Queen issue really bothers you. As I've said many times myself, I couldn't give two sh*ts about the Queen. Do away with it, blast her to Mars, I don't care. Why the hell do you? I mean really now, why do so many people get so f*cking bent out of shape over a woman who has about as much say in Canadian matters as a bad case of diarrhea? It's asinine. F*ck man, just chill about it. Suck back and get drunk or something, she's just the f*cking Queen. Whoopy. Bow to a poster of Ozzy Osbourne instead then, I don't f*cking care.


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 12, 2006)

You tell it how it is


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 12, 2006)

God - this went from Happy 4th of July to Canadian politics - God Bless the USA, God Bless Canada, God Bless the Queen!!!!


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## evangilder (Jul 14, 2006)

Agreed, Joe. It's funny, but fellow countrymen will often fight amongst themselves until an outside comes along. Happens here in the states a lot.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 14, 2006)

that was begging to turn into some sort of Canadian uprising, i can see skimmey now, taking over his submarine with a few of his mates, declaring himself captain, threatening to scuttle the sub if the Queen isn't assassinated, the Canadians agreeing because they can't afford to loose the sub  

and being patriotic i can't pass up the opportunity...

God Save The Queen!


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 14, 2006)

the lancaster kicks *** said:


> ...threatening to scuttle the sub if the Queen isn't assassinated...


I couldn't possibly. I swore an oath to her when I joined up. 

*Canadian Forces Oath of Allegiance:*

_I,__________, do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to
Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, her heirs and
successors according to law. So help me God._

Not a word about the country or it's people. All about the Queen, baby. Does it bother me? Yeah, a little. It bothered me a whole lot more when I was younger, but I've come to realize that life's just too damn short. It's really a sorely out of date oath, and completely hypocritical anyway. It ought to be amended if it hasn't already (I honestly haven't checked recently). Virtually _no one_ in the CF fights for Liz, least of all any Québeckers. We're here to serve Canada, naturally. I'll say this about traditions, sometimes they're taken just a bit too far. Even _I'll_ agree to that.


Alright, shutting up about Canada now.


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