# B24 or B29 Jungle Crash Pics



## aomiles (May 11, 2009)

Hello. I'm currently living on Saipan in the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas. I went for a hike the other day in the jungle behind my house and came across this wreck. Some locals told me that the entire plane used to be there, but everything has been scavenged now except the engines and the landing gear. I'm trying to figure out what kind of plane this was. Everyone here says its a B-29, but it looked kind of small for that to my untrained eye. I was thinking it was more likely a b-24. There was a number legible in a few places that said "205097". Is there a place I could look that up?


----------



## Catch22 (May 11, 2009)

Welcome to the forum!

Were you able to tell how many blades there were on the propellers? From the pictures I can't tell. If there were 3, it was definitely a B-24, as all B-29s had 4 blades. If it had 4, it was probably a B-29. I'm not sure if later versions of the Liberator had 4 blades or not, but I don't think so.


----------



## GrauGeist (May 11, 2009)

Welcome to the forum, aomiles!

I see the person's legs in the one photo, near the engine, and using that to judge the size of the engine, I'd say it wasn't large enough to be a Wright R-3350-57. Plus there were 4 huge props on a B-29's engine.

It looks to be a Pratt Whitney R-1830 instead, which had 3 props on each engine. I also notice that those props are in remarkable condition, which is telling me that they weren't under power when the aircraft went into the jungle.

As for the number 205097, I'm not having any luck with that, perhaps one of the other guys might be able to scare up some info on that.

* Wait! I'm wrong...I just looked closer at the images, and there are 4 props...just by looking at thier position on the hub confirms that.

I didn't see the first engine pic, it was slow to load. The photo offers a much better perspective about thier size, so those must be Wright R-3350 engines *


----------



## syscom3 (May 11, 2009)

Contact Sally Ann at her website.

http://b-29.org/

She can get the pics put up and hopefully some of the more knowledgeable people there can identify it.


----------



## Airframes (May 11, 2009)

I'd say B29. It cetainly looks like a four blade prop, and if the other image is of the landing gear, it appears to be a bogy type, twin wheeled.


----------



## aomiles (May 11, 2009)

Sorry for the poor pics, but they are pulled from some video footage. Its really hard to get good pics when squeezed into the jungle.
I know its hard to tell, but there are 4 blades. The bottom two were smashed backwards from impact.


----------



## patriot66 (May 11, 2009)

I would say it is definitely a B-29 from the photo of the main landing gear bogey. As far as I can remember it was the only bomber with twin bogeys (i.e 4 wheels) on each of the 2 main landing gear oleos. You can clearly see that there are 4 wheels on the photo. It would be interesting to know more of its story.


----------



## aomiles (May 11, 2009)

I'm going to go back out there again this weekend. There was a info plate on the engine, but it was covered with mold. I'm going to take some cleaning stuff up and try to get it clean.
But if the number on the engines (205097) isn't the serial, what is it?


----------



## Capt. Vick (May 12, 2009)

...as to an absolute identification from the admittedly slim photographic evidence currently posted. Initially I thought it might have been a three bladed prop because the angle between the two blades that are actually showing APPEARS greater then 90 degrees. That was until our man on the spot confirmed that it was a four blader. Also, and I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but the engine itself appears too small to have come from a B-29 (that engine was huge)...even with all the damage. And lastly, the "landing gear"...although I can't scale it correctly it appears to have four rims in a row. The superfort didn't have that, even though patriot66 says the main gear had 4 tires, in actuality it only had two per each main gear and two tires also for the nose gear. We need more information I think.


----------



## Matt308 (May 12, 2009)

Looks like a B-29 to me. The main landing gear that you see in the pic is two LARGE wheel rims on each side of a two-wheel bogie. The tires are gone (probably due to the resultant fire). What is left are the inner and outter rims on each side of the main gear strut. Given the size, that smacks of B-29. There were some other US aircraft that had two wheel bogies, but these were used for flying boats and were typically installed only when they came ashore.

The engines do look small, but I'm thinking that is because the cylinder heads likely were scavenged, thus reducing the apparent diameter. Check out the second pic and you can see one blatently missing.


----------



## Matt308 (May 12, 2009)

Here's a wreckage pic of the nose wheel bogie from a B-29 taken from B-29 Hunters of the JAAF/Takai Sakaida. Without some scaling it is hard to tell the size of the bogie in the pic provided above. But roughly the nose wheel/tire assembly was about 3ft in diameter. The main gear tire/wheel assembly was roughly twice that (i.e., 6ft dia). Looking at the tire profile on the main gear, the wheel hubs would be about 4ft+ or so in diameter, I would guess.


----------



## Capt. Vick (May 12, 2009)

Matt308 has convinced me. Great picture showing the tire burnt away from the rim(s). I guess I was thinking too much along the line of car tire rims, discounting that the size of the tire would necessarily dictate that there should be an outer AND inner rim! Another great education from a Forum member. Thanks. A B-29 it is!


----------



## comiso90 (May 12, 2009)

Actually, I think this thread meant is to identify which forum members are gay or too old to care about women...

No one mentioned the girl with the blue Ambercrmbie shorts on... have any more photos of her?

me likey...




.


----------



## Matt308 (May 12, 2009)

Probably his wife. But... and I do mean that in the best way... she caught my eye too.


----------



## Capt. Vick (May 13, 2009)

Man I'm getting my eyes check...


----------



## Matt308 (May 13, 2009)

It's your constant and utter professionalism, Vick.


----------



## exlegeconsulting (May 19, 2009)

That plane is B29 Serial # 44-83899 I have all of the info on this plane if you'd like it. My brother's father was killed in this crash.

Rick Dickson
[email protected]


----------



## syscom3 (May 19, 2009)

exlegeconsulting said:


> That plane is B29 Serial # 44-83899 I have all of the info on this plane if you'd like it. My brother's father was killed in this crash.
> 
> Rick Dickson
> [email protected]



Please provide us with the information! I would also like to have it posted on the B29 forum if you agree.


----------



## Sweb (May 19, 2009)

Definitely a 4-blade hub and the cylinder heads are intact evidenced by the intake and exhaust stack ports. They're part of the head. The 24 had a single wheel main gear. That bogey has 2. When you get a round engine on the ground it gives the appearance of being small.

R3350 Specs:

Wright Turbo-Cyclone 18R-3350-TC (972TC18DA2)

Judging from the factory-straight remaining prop blades I'm guessing there was no fire. It ran out of fuel. Those blades would have been pretty mangled had they been turning. Also, the jugs are largely intact as are the engines, generally speaking, which are usually molten messes after a fire when the wing breaks up and the fuel is thrown forward.

I use to be part of a crash recovery team salvaging aircraft wherever they ended up. I've seen more than I care to remember but this crash looks like the result of gliding in. Mother nature has had a lot of time to reclaim what was once hers. The tires are missing because islanders would strip them off and use them for shoe soles. Every bird I've ever salvaged has been visited by locals who typically have a use for something on the wrecks. Tubing, cabling, reservoirs/bottles, skin sections, bullets (the Yapese used them for their slingshots made from inner tubes and tree branch forks), etc. I used to strip that stuff off and barter with it for local goods and services near the site.


----------



## Cota1992 (May 20, 2009)

I'd like to see the story on this plane too.
Art


----------



## jayb (May 22, 2009)

Just an observation, but the prop in the pictures appears to be four bladed, B-24's had three blade props. Both B-29's and B-24's had four engines and you didn't mention how many were in the jungle.


----------



## exlegeconsulting (Jun 17, 2009)

The Airplane is Call sign Temper -11, Assigned to 315th Wing, 502 Bomb Group, 402 Sq. The Crew was Capt. Claude Lawson, Lt. Robert Kindig, Lt. Lawrence Honeycutt Jr., Lt Bernard Beine, Lt. Hartphey Haller., Sgt. Mike Myrick, Sgt. Ray Card, Sgt. Howard Robinson, Sgt. Chester Skorupa, Sgt. Mathew Schemer. 

They arrived in Guam in July of 1945 and in August 1945 all were killed while flying a POW reliief mission. The plane hit the mountain in bad weather while attempting to land.

There were two Navy Reserve passengers on the flight Commander B.N. Olson and Lt. L.Q. Smith.



Sweb said:


> Definitely a 4-blade hub and the cylinder heads are intact evidenced by the intake and exhaust stack ports. They're part of the head. The 24 had a single wheel main gear. That bogey has 2. When you get a round engine on the ground it gives the appearance of being small.
> 
> R3350 Specs:
> 
> ...


The #4 engine on the plane had gone out and was feathered at the time of the crash. And there was a fire and the plane was under power when it crashed. Actually they had no idea they were about to crash, it was a sudden and unexpected impact. So you may be looking at #4 itself. If any of you get back to the site. I'd love to have just a small piece of the plane, a nut or bolt to give my brother. I'd pay any shipping charges needed. contact me at: [email protected]


----------



## katsongs (Jun 14, 2010)

My Dad was a crew chief on a B-29. He was stationed on Tinian in the Marianas. During a flight the aircraft was shot up and they landed in the jungle somewhere in the area, against a hillside if I remember correctly. I was just looking up WW II stuff about his squadron etc, when I came across these pictures. Can't help but wonder....except for him the entire crew was killed on impact. Somehow he was ejected out of the airplane and wandered around delerious in the jungles for days, until some indigenous people found him and took him to the Americans. 

Every summer he would experience bouts of "jungle rot" in his feet and back. He soaked his feet in some purple stuff and it seemed to help. The nerves in his back were messed up from injuries in the crash and more than likely he had a concussion. No purple heart, but we always looked at him as our hero, among a inummerable company of heroes. He passed away in 2001. It would be funny after all these years to find out that was his plane...
Kathleen


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 14, 2010)

katsongs said:


> My Dad was a crew chief on a B-29. He was stationed on Tinian in the Marianas. During a flight the aircraft was shot up and they landed in the jungle somewhere in the area, against a hillside if I remember correctly. I was just looking up WW II stuff about his squadron etc, when I came across these pictures. Can't help but wonder....except for him the entire crew was killed on impact. Somehow he was ejected out of the airplane and wandered around delerious in the jungles for days, until some indigenous people found him and took him to the Americans.
> 
> Every summer he would experience bouts of "jungle rot" in his feet and back. He soaked his feet in some purple stuff and it seemed to help. The nerves in his back were messed up from injuries in the crash and more than likely he had a concussion. No purple heart, but we always looked at him as our hero, among a inummerable company of heroes. He passed away in 2001. It would be funny after all these years to find out that was his plane...
> Kathleen



Hi Kat - what was his name or squadron? The date of his crash would really help.


----------



## robwkamm (Jun 15, 2010)

Excellent post. this is why i joined this site. fantastic. people getting together figuring out history. ( I was so into the plane pics that i missed the blue shorts hottie also . LOL)


----------

