# Mercedes T80



## Smokey (Aug 6, 2006)

A Daimler Benz DB 603 engine tuned to generate 3000 hp was used in this car. It was estimated that a speed of 750 km/h or 468.75 mph would be reached, but the start of the war meant it was never run at full power.

Apparently only jet and rocket engine cars could beat that theoretical figure, as no internal combustion engine car could

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Cien años de tracción integral

Mercedes T80: Information From Answers.com


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## Matt308 (Aug 6, 2006)

I don't know, Smokey. Looks like lots of "wing-in-ground effect" would plague that design. I can see that think reaching take-off well before 400mph. Also, I bet that at 450mph you would have lots of yaw problems without some sort of vertical stabilizer.


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## Smokey (Aug 6, 2006)

It seems the intention is for the rear wheel arches to form twin vertical stabilisers


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 7, 2006)

I sure as hell wouldnt like to drive that...


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## Matt308 (Aug 7, 2006)

Smokey said:


> It seems the intention is for the rear wheel arches to form twin vertical stabilisers



You don't really believe that do you?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 8, 2006)

Ive seen that car several times. I used to live near the Mercedes Museum and would go and view the vehicals on many occasions. The Museum is great it has the first automobile in it (yes people Ford did not build the first automobile, they just made the first mass produced one), the T80, and even Hitlers limousine.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 8, 2006)

do you mean the firstl self propelled vehicle? what year was she built?


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 8, 2006)

No, we mean the first vehicle to be propelled by the internal combustion engine. 1886 I belive, built by Karl Benz and Gottlieb Daimler.


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## Smokey (Aug 8, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> You don't really believe that do you?



That was the theory - I don't know if it worked in practice

According to this site:



> Aerodynamically, the T80 incorporated two small wings at its midsection to prevent the vehicle from veering off course at maximum velocity through a "downforce" mechanism patented in 1939 by Mikcl, Porsche-designed enclosed cockpit, low sloping hood, rounded fenders, and elongated tail booms. Incredibly, the streamlined twin-tailed T80 had a drag coefficient of only 0.18!



Mercedes T80: Information From Answers.com


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 9, 2006)

the lancaster kicks *** said:


> do you mean the firstl self propelled vehicle? what year was she built?



The first powered automobiles. Daimler and Benz built them in 1886 and they also built the first motorized cycles in 1886 as well.

The Museum also features:

1892 Daimler Motor Car
1907 Daimler Double Decker
1921 Mercedes Knight Touring Car
1927 Pullman 12/55hp Limousine
1939 Mercedes 320
1940 Mercedes O2600 All Weather Coach
1952 O3200 All Weather Coach
1969 1112 Bus
1972 300 SEL 6.3
1912 Benz 3 Ton Truck
1938 L6500 Platform Truck
1955 Mercedes Racing Sports Car
1959 L406
1983 500 SEC
1985 230 E
1985 280 CE
1985 320 SEC
1912 Benz Fire Fighting Truck
1937 320 Ambulance
1952 170 V Panel Van
1952 Fire Fighting Truck
2001 Formula 1 Medical Car
1926 24/100/140hp Roadster
1932 770 Convertable F
1935 770 Pullman Limousine
1958 190 SL
1959 300
1965 600 Pullman State Limousine
1974 O300 German National Team World Cup Soccer Bus
1980 230G Popemobile (John Paul IIs)
1984 190E 2.3 AMG
1988 500 SL
1991 500 SL
1997 ML 320 (from Jurrasic Park)
1923 10/30 hp Benz
1927 8/38 hp Benz
1928 OE Tractor
1931 170
1935 130
1937 Military Truck 
1951 170D
1962 190
1969 280 CE

There are many many more like Formula 1 Cars and from McClaren Mercedes, DB 601 Engine, DB-605 Engine and so forth...

To many more to name.

Good Museum


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 13, 2006)

I was reading a feature about that museum in Top Gear magazine lastnight. Looks damn good, Ive gotta go there when im older...Apparently no two panes of glass from the 1800 windows are the same...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 13, 2006)

same with the tiles that make up the Eden Project biomes


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## Twitch (Aug 15, 2006)

As I recall Hans Stuck had some speed record experience back then along with Rudi Caracciola. It was Caracciola who held the fastest at 263 MPH on the autobahn. The T-80 looking for 470 MPH on the same is insane. They had a zillion problems reaching 263 on what was basically a public highway.

While I believe the thing could have achieved a chance of the speed on the Bonneville Salt Flats it would have never done it through the officially measured FIA distance on a freeway! And since nothing else with later technology has hit 468 either so I can't imagine it happening. There's more to it than sheer HP but that's a whole different topic.

Here are some of the other wheel-driven speed records- none of which were acomplished on public roads!!!!!

John Cobb's Railton used a pair of engine with 2,500 HP total and ran 394MPH in 1947





In 1965 the Summer brothers' Goldenrod used 4 blown Hemis with 2,400 HP combined and ran 409MPH





Mickey Thompson's 4 Pontiacs in the Challenger had 2,800 HP combined and ran 406 MPH in 1960 but didn't make an official return run for the record.

In 2004 the Burkland brother's #411 used 2 V-8s with 4,000 HP total and ran 417 MPH for the fastest piston engine record

In the wheel-driven gas turbine category Donald Campbell's 5,000 HP Bluebird ran 403 in 1964

Don Vesco's Turbinator had 3,750 HP and holds the wheel driven record at 458 MPH set in 2001


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 15, 2006)

Twitch said:


> As I recall Hans Stuck had some speed record experience back then along with Rudi Caracciola. It was Caracciola who held the fastest at 263 MPH on the autobahn. The T-80 looking for 470 MPH on the same is insane. They had a zillion problems reaching 263 on what was basically a public highway.




And dont forget the Auto Union V16 Type C Streamliner (which had 'only' around 520bhp), which crashed violently at 270mph on the same day Caracciola set that record, killing Bernd Rosemeyer, who along with Tazio Nuvolari, was one of the greatest pre war drivers...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 16, 2006)

Twitch said:


> As I recall Hans Stuck had some speed record experience back then along with Rudi Caracciola. It was Caracciola who held the fastest at 263 MPH on the autobahn. The T-80 looking for 470 MPH on the same is insane. They had a zillion problems reaching 263 on what was basically a public highway.



Whether it could have achieved that speed I do not know, however on the Autobahn I dont think it would be that hard. 

It is not a highway in that sense. It is like an interstate, is very wide, very well upkept and has many long straight stretches.

The best part of the Autobahn: No speed limits in most areas! Not that I can go fast in my car.


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## Twitch (Aug 21, 2006)

263 MPH is a far cry from 470 MPH. And in Southern California we have freeways that rival anything anywhere but attempting to run at that speed is just suicide. Up until 1935 Sir Malcolm Campbell even ran on the packed sand at Daytona Beach. But 276 was the max. He went to Bonneville to achieve 301 MPH. The Geroge Eyston and John Cobb held the records that escalated from 312 to 369 MPH at Bonneville.

The LSR requires 2 runs through the measured mile in opposite directions within a specified time for the record to be sanctioned. The reason for using a place like Bonneville is that obviously it is safer due to the fact that the driving surfice is infinite in relative terms to the speed record and a road is not. Times are chosen for record runs when wind is nill or light. The vast open area of the salt flats makes for less air movement when no weather fronts are involved to push the air around. There are more dead calm opportunities. Tens of miles are required to achieve top speed velocity just like aircraft. The vast open area of the salt flats is far superior to any concrete roadway of finite width and straight sections.

The simple fact that all the vehicles that came later took over half a century to achieve 458 MPH tells me that the T-80 would have failed. It might have done OK at Bonneville but not on the Autobahn.


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## Bullockracing (Aug 21, 2006)

That's a beautiful car, IMO... Don't think it would have reached the desired speed, though. The "wings" appear to be angled to give some downforce, chich is good, but I doubt the tire/wheel rotating assembly would hold up to 400+ miles per hour. We have a hard time with that now, even on the Bonneville Salt Flats or the Muroc dry lake bed...


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