# P-51 crash that killed my flight instructor



## mlmcdonald (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm not quite sure whether this thread fits in this topic but I think it's related so here goes. My flight instructor in the sixties (civilian) was Bill Barnes, son of the aviation legend Pancho Barnes. She raced with the likes of Amelia Earhart and Jimmy Doolittle, and in later years was the owner of the Happy Bottom Riding Club off the end of the runway of what was to become Edwards Air Force Base (if you've seen "The Right Stuff" you've heard of it, though in a grossly sanitized version.) In other words, for all intents and purposes, Bill was born in a cockpit.

He flew everything, and eventually came to own Barnes Aviation at Fox Field, just outside of Lancaster, California--where one day, I might add, to my great surprise and unending delight, I was fortunate enough to be introduced to Pancho herself. If you saw "Tora, Tora, Tora," Bill flew some of the T-6s that were made to look like Zekes, Vals, and Kates. I hadn't seen him for over 30 years when, a couple of years ago, I decided to find out what had become of him and learned online that he was killed in 1989 while flying a P-51 Mustang. 

I've tried to learn more, but have not been able to find out any more than that. If anyone can help me to learn the details of what happened to my instructor and friend, I would be forever grateful.

Michael


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 24, 2008)

Bill was running an aviation FBO called Barnes Aviation at Fox Field at the time of his death which was actually in 1980. His wife add son still runs the business as far as I know. 

From what I understand Bill was either taking off on runway 24 or was doing a low approach and crashed just outside the airport perimeter. His passenger was the brother in law of a guy I did work for at Mojave Airport.

Here's the place in the 1960s







Here's the NTSB Report

LAX81FUQ01


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## mlmcdonald (Jun 24, 2008)

Thanks FLYBOYJ. I didn't even have the date right, which just goes to show how much I didn't know about his death. I started there when the FBO was called Willbanks Aviation before Bill bought it. I haven't been back to Antelope Valley since the early 70s and the photo brings back memories. I remember the graveyard in the background was full of Constellations and made the airport real easy for a novice pilot to find his way around the vicinity. 

Anyway, I wonder how it happened. Mechanical failure, perhaps? I see that he only had a few hours in the P-51, so maybe it just got away from him, though with all those hours that really doesn't seem likely. Thanks for the info.

Michael


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 24, 2008)

Hi Michael;

From some of the old timers I knew around Fox, they thought it was on take off and he perhaps got into a torque roll. There is a big barren patch of dirt off the end of runway 6; I was told that's where they crashed. 

I lived in the "AV" from 1988 - 2003. I learned how to fly at the Edwards Aero Club and was found between Fox and Mojave, a good place to learn who to fly in gusty and cross winds. The place really boomed then busted, but right now is just an extension of LA - crowded and crime ridden. I do go back abut once a year to do some side work and sometimes fly.

Did you ever meet Bill's wife?


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## mlmcdonald (Jun 24, 2008)

Hi Flyboy:

I remember the bare patch of dirt well. I recall using it as a reference point when I was learning to land. I lived in AV from 1955 until about 1972. I graduated from Palmdale High in '67. And yeah, talk about learning to land with crosswinds! Jeez, 30-40 mph was calm. 

I did know his wife: a little Asian woman whose name I now forget. I do remember reading on a forum I found when I was trying to find out what had happened to him some pretty bad things people were saying about her. I don't know. Maybe losing him made her bitter or something, because I remember her as a cute little thing who was always really nice to me--just a little hard to understand--when I knew them from about 1965 until I moved away.

I haven't been back to the Valley since maybe 1978 or so. When I lived there it was really a pretty good place to grow up. I think the population of Palmdale was about 5,000 or so--now it's some ungodly number like 100,000 I think. In a way I'd like to go back to look around but I'm afraid it would just make me sad. 

I only flew into Mojave airport once when I rode with Bill to take a twin engine Cessna over there one night; I don't even remember what it was about. I did go to the air races there the first year they held them: I think it was called the California 1000, which they shortened to 500 the next year. There was (I think) a C-47 entered that was trying to make it by not having to refuel; that didn't quite work out. The other thing I recall was a horrible crash of (again I think it was) a P-47.

Anyways, nice talking to someone from home. And thanks again for the info.

Michael


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 24, 2008)

Hi Michael...

His wife Shu-ling was hell on wheels, ran the business with an iron fist. I never had to deal with her too much but a lot of other folks at Fox never liked her. One time she had an ELT going off in one of her planes, had to call the cops to convince her to shut it off! 

I started going up to the valley in 1981 when I first started working for Lockheed. Even when it boomed in the mid 80s and again in the late 80s it wasn't that bad. I think Palmdale has about 130,000 people, Lancaster about 125,000.

I think the guy that crashed with Bill last name was Helwick - ring a bell?

I would have loved to live there during the period you grew up there. To me the place will always be "Aviation Mecca."

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## mlmcdonald (Jun 24, 2008)

Hi Flyboy:

Ah! Shu-Ling, that's it. I guess she must be a holy terror, but I swear I didn't see anything bad about her back then. I don't know. Maybe I just wasn't there for anything that set her off. I do remember that the two of them seemed pretty happy together. Or maybe she changed after Bill was killed. Oh well.

Helwick? Sorry. Don't recognize the name.

It really was "Aviation Mecca." When I was a kid there were sonic booms all the time. One of the coolest things was to see the SR-71, which as I recall had maintenance performed on it at Lockheed, flying low overhead in Palmdale on takeoff/landing from Plant 42. Even though it was not all that rare an occurrence, impressive as it was it would still make everyone stop and look up. I remember seeing lots of F-102s, F-104s, and later on F-4s, F-5s, C-130s, and I don't remember what all else. I got to go to the ceremony to roll out the B-70 Valkyrie in 1962, I think. Huge airplane. Really impressive. Too bad.

I've looked at Google Earth images of Palmdale and it's really depressing. The main part of town used to be centered on Sierra Hwy. and Palmdale Blvd. Now I see that all of that has been torn down. It really was a pretty nice place, but I guess now it's just another suburb of L.A.

Michael


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## davparlr (Jun 25, 2008)

He didn't have much time in the P-51, but with 9000 hours, surely he was familar with high torque engines. Still, I would have been careful. Of course it may have been equipment failure.

I worked in Palmdale off and on in the '90s at the Northrop facility off Ave. M on the B-2 and visited the B-2 facility on Edwards. At Edwards they use to have an old B-1 parked in front of the B-2 hanger to confuse spy satellites. Often saw U-2s (TR1s?) and F-117s. Of course I also got to see the B-2 fly (as well as being manufactured), always awsome. I really didn't mind the temperature extremes, but I did't like the wind.

When I first joined Northrop, we flew to Edwards in a Piaggio P.166, an interesting twin engine aircraft with twin pusher props. Later we flew in a twin otter, a plane that basically flew at the same speed it taxied. Take off was simple, no rotate, just taxi fast, then you are flying.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 25, 2008)

Dave I remember the Piaggio and Otter. I think later on they had those "flying pencils" going into south base.

I worked on AV3 - 7. I'm the guy who named "Christine," I think it was AV4 or 5.


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## davparlr (Jun 25, 2008)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Dave I remember the Piaggio and Otter. I think later on they had those "flying pencils" going into south base.
> 
> I worked on AV3 - 7. I'm the guy who named "Christine," I think it was AV4 or 5.



I don't remember one called "Christine", (I may have been in Pico during that period, or I could have just forgot). I do remember one called "The Spirit of San Francisco", though.

What work did you do? I used to love to walk up and down the production line. I always wanted to see it full, but alas, it never happened. I was on the original proposal team responsible for Controls and Displays, Flight management and Comm, Nav, Ident. I took over the Avionics Controls and Display group and later moved into the Multstage Improvement Program (MSIP). I was very fortunate to work on an aircraft from initial conception to bombs on target, a rarity among engineers.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 25, 2008)

I worked for Boeing and was a "Modification Inspector" - in essence final inspector. I did all aspects of final assembly with an emphasis on fuel tank seal. I took the job after being laid off from Lockheed where I was a Quality Assurance Engineer - a little overqualified but it worked out fine for me. I was there from June 1990 through December where I quit and went to work for Rohr industries.


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## davparlr (Jun 25, 2008)

Yikes! A QA guy!  

Sounds like you have had a varied background in aerospace. Quite impressive.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 25, 2008)

davparlr said:


> Yikes! A QA guy!


Yep - I'm one of those "derriere's." 


davparlr said:


> Sounds like you have had a varied background in aerospace. Quite impressive.


Thanks - most of my time was in QA although I did a lot of sidework to stay connected with my GA roots. The thing I hated most about the manufacturing side of the business were the people that were there for the paycheck and had no pride or passion about aviation, or the know it alls that spent 15 years putting jo-bolts into a wing splice - I used to call them "bomber builders" because between the B-1 and B-2 that's all they knew. One of my last bosses at Mojave was that way, a former Lockheed guy, he knew nothing about flight test, modifications or heavy maintenance and I think I got laid off because of his jealousy. Anyway I'm ranting but things worked out for me.

Still miss the AV when it comes to my side work and just flying around - my normal run was Mojave to Fox, Rosemond, Cal City, Inyokern, Techachipi and back to Mojave.


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## agentvf (Sep 16, 2009)

I am looking for information or article about David R. Barnes who was killed in a plane crash maybe in late 70's or early 80's . His family owned Barnes Aviation in Lancaster, California. He was married to Janet Barnes, formally Janet Hendrickson from Quartz Hill. I am only investigating for a friend.

Myself, I am a mom of a Severely wounded SPC injured in the war in Iraq. 

Thank you for your help.
Vicky


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## drgondog (Sep 16, 2009)

Some really good jocks were killed in a 51 after losing the engine on takeoff, thought they had enough energy to bring it back without damage and stalled in the attempt


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 25, 2009)

agentvf said:


> I am looking for information or article about David R. Barnes who was killed in a plane crash maybe in late 70's or early 80's . His family owned Barnes Aviation in Lancaster, California. He was married to Janet Barnes, formally Janet Hendrickson from Quartz Hill. I am only investigating for a friend.
> 
> Myself, I am a mom of a Severely wounded SPC injured in the war in Iraq.
> 
> ...



Hi Vicky;

As far as I know William E. Barnes owned the business, maybe David was his son. Bill was killed in 1980 while flying a P-51. I do know Bill had a Korean wife named Su-Ling (spelling?). She was still involved running the business with another son when I left the AV in 2003.


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## Helogirl (Apr 11, 2010)

mlmcdonald said:


> Thanks FLYBOYJ. I didn't even have the date right, which just goes to show how much I didn't know about his death. I started there when the FBO was called Willbanks Aviation before Bill bought it. I haven't been back to Antelope Valley since the early 70s and the photo brings back memories. I remember the graveyard in the background was full of Constellations and made the airport real easy for a novice pilot to find his way around the vicinity.
> 
> Anyway, I wonder how it happened. Mechanical failure, perhaps? I see that he only had a few hours in the P-51, so maybe it just got away from him, though with all those hours that really doesn't seem likely. Thanks for the info.
> 
> Michael



For everyone's information, the guy in the back seat of the P-51 Bill Barnes was flying, was my brother, Cliff Hellwig. Bill was joining up with a B-29 to fly to the Edwards Air Show, also Bob Guilford was to join up with the P-51, in his F4U-7 Corsair.

The P-51 went into the ground with full power, (the prop blades were bent forward). The NTSB believe that the coolant lines in the P-51 must have ruptured, because both helmets were permeated with glycol. My brother, Cliff was in the jump seat in the back - no controls. If Bill was incapacitated quickly, he didn't have the ability to pull back on the power or set up for a gear up landing.

The beautiful Lou IV cartwheeled through power lines, broke up and burned. It was heart-wrenching to see the remains. We not only lost my brother, a dear friend, Bill Barnes, but a lovely piece of WWII history.

Guilford flew over the wreckage and went on to the air show. Guess he couldn't face Shouling or any of us who remained back at the airport watching that horrible column of black smoke.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 12, 2010)

Hi Cathy! 

Thanks for coming on and sharing that with us, I know the story being told never gets easy - I'll see you guys in a few weeks!


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## Helogirl (May 1, 2010)

Hey Joe! Shouling Barnes and her sons still run Barnes Aviation. Shouling and Bill never had children together. Her children are from a previous marriage and she is Chinese. Steve Ma, Shouling's son, was in the office last time I was there.

I think Bill had a son when he was married before, but the son was killed in an aircraft accident, I think at Rosamond. He never had any other children to my knowledge. I have never heard of a "David Barnes." No relation to Bill and Shouling.

Thanks for the annual! A little less windy today! )


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## FLYBOYJ (May 1, 2010)

Helogirl said:


> Hey Joe! Shouling Barnes and her sons still run Barnes Aviation. Shouling and Bill never had children together. Her children are from a previous marriage and she is Chinese. Steve Ma, Shouling's son, was in the office last time I was there.
> 
> I think Bill had a son when he was married before, but the son was killed in an aircraft accident, I think at Rosamond. He never had any other children to my knowledge. I have never heard of a "David Barnes." No relation to Bill and Shouling.
> 
> Thanks for the annual! A little less windy today! )



Thanks Cathy, it was great to see you guys. Take care and fly safe!


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## RockNRolla (Sep 22, 2010)

FYI, Shouling Barnes is Chinese. 

Steve hasn't worked much for the business Andy her other son is the manager of the office.


Ps. Andy is my dad and Shouling is my amazing grandma.

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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 22, 2010)

Thanks rock!


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## Gizmo78 (Jun 29, 2011)

Shouling Barnes is an amazing person!!!!!!!!! She has done so much for so many in aviation and in life. She has helped so many start off in aviation, and start off in life, she always helped everyone no matter even if it meant it was at a loss to her. For me personally I owe her so so much, she has always helped my family through hard hard times as I was growing up, and she is an inspiration to me as a person. Her energy in aviation is amazing, I love aviation, and aerospace, and Barnes Aviation and Shouling Barnes have played a very important role in that love of aviation for me, and I'm forever grateful! 

I supposedly met Bill Barnes as a child, but being so young at the time its difficult to remember. I supposedly sat in Bill Barnes F4U-4 Corsair when he and my father were working on restoring it. I also sat in Pancho Barnes Travel Air years ago at Barnes Aviation Fox Field when it was there for an Anniversary I believe, it was just the assembled frame and the engine, but It was neat to actually see it. 

Here is a link to the Corsair Bill Barnes actually restored warbirdregistry.org - A Warbirds Resource Group Site - Chance-Vought Corsair , looks like its been through a lot, but she is airworthy again .


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## Gizmo78 (Jun 29, 2011)

P.S. B-2 ship AV4 was Christine, she was a pill sometimes.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 29, 2011)

Thanks Gizmo - did you work on her? I remember not only problems during check out but during assembly when several Seattle trainees butchered up several plumbing installations within the wings. 

I'll continue to swear on a stack of bibles that I'm the one who named her!


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## Buglady0 (Jun 29, 2011)

Sad news folks. Shouling passed away yesterday.

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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Jun 29, 2011)

I never met or knew her but it sounds like she was quite a woman. I am very sorry to hear this.


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## crsebrell (Feb 5, 2013)

Was doing research and came upon this Thread. Billy Barnes taught me to fly in 1953. Later, in 1956 I worked at Edwards [GE test center] and flew again with Billy [he worked for GE at the time], he took me over the "hump" to LA to get my learner's permit since I was too young in '53, though he let me solo in his Aeronca 55 HP in '53. I met Pancho twice. I must admit I really had no idea who Billy was nor who Pancho was in '53. Then in '54 I was sent off to private school in Kansas and one of my classmates was Bill Beech, Maude's only nephew. She visited Bill at the school a few times and I met her. I don't recall how it came about, but I told her I learned to fly from Billy Barnes and she asked if he was Pancho Barnes' son. It was then I realized there was more to this than I ever thought. She had raced against Pancho several times, among her many exploits, and really lit up when she talked about it. I saw Billy once again in 1958, when I again worked at Edwards. I never saw him again. I eventually hired on with TWA and flew 727s, 707s and 747s and did a 4 year contract stint with KLM flying the north Atlantic, 747s. Retired after that with a bit over 20000 hours. Started in an Aeronca on a sand strip and ended with a landing in Amsterdam on the 747.

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## skyking435 (May 3, 2015)

Bill taught me to fly in 1967. Was at an FAA safety meeting in October, 1980, when the speaker announced his death. Totally shocked, Bill was a great person and an excellent pilot/instructor. Below is a photo I took of him in 1967 along with the Cessna 150 we used for flight training. Ray; CFII ASMEL AIGI

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## Chuck Lahmeyer (Oct 14, 2016)

Just a few comments on the Bill Barnes story. I did not know Bill or his mother
but I took my first flying lesson at Barnes aviation around 1994. Most of my
subsequent lessons were private lessons with Dick Rutan, maybe some of you
have heard of him. I was sorry to hear of Shouling's death from a post above.
I was also privileged to know Helogirl, Cathy Hansen, and
perhaps you will remember me Cathy as we showed up at Al's hanger some
years ago with my dad, an F-86 pilot and my two sons making that a 3 generation
visitation. You wrote that up in your "Keep em flying" column and I still have that.
Dad got to climb up to the Sabre cockpit and considered that a real treat. Dad
claimed that Al's Sabre had similar markings to Dad's squadron in Korea.
I was just looking for information on how Billy died and this forum seemed to 
clear that up pretty well. I lived in AV for about 18 years and now am retired and
living in Missouri. No I am not a pilot.
We recently visited Southern California and spent a night in Mojave, then drove out
to the Jawbone Station to visit our old friend Mr. Bob the tortoise. The Jawbone store
was at one time owned by Bonk, called Bonk's store. He was the son of Mac Mckendry
who lived just behind the store. Mac was Pancho's 4th husband and the only one that
she stayed with for very long, they had divorced also, however.
Mac and I were good friends and he talked a lot
about Pancho and their days at the "Ranch". My wife and I attended the Pancho 
Barnes party out at that ranch on Edwards AFB for many years. I hope they still
have it. We met a niece of Pancho's at that party some years ago, a lady named
Vicki.. It appears that Pancho has no actual living descendants any longer.
Have any of you heard of DOC the B-29. I helped with restoration efforts out at
the Inyokern airport back in 98-99', and guess what? She is flying again. Doc took off
on July 17, 2016 in Wichita, for her first flight since 1956. Check it out on youtube. We visited the
old restoration site in Inyokern two weeks ago and it is now total junk and trash. Hey
Cathy, how's that for "keepin em flying".?
A most interesting forum! (unlike many others I have seen)
But hey, since when does a P-51 have a back seat? 
Chuck

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## DaveyL123 (Nov 5, 2022)

skyking435 said:


> Bill taught me to fly in 1967. Was at an FAA safety meeting in October, 1980, when the speaker announced his death. Totally shocked, Bill was a great person and an excellent pilot/instructor. Below is a photo I took of him in 1967 along with the Cessna 150 we used for flight training. Ray; CFII ASMEL AIGI
> 
> View attachment 452498


That's Bill. And that's the first plane I took flying lessons in. My instructor was Dutch Meyerholtz.

Bill had a passenger on that fateful day. Our scoutmaster for Troop 68, Cliff Hellwig, was in the back seat of the Mustang. There's speculation that coolant leaked into the cockpit. I'll stick with the heart attack theory. According to his wife, Shu Ling, he was complaining of back pain and other symptoms.


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## mjfur (Nov 5, 2022)

I know this is an old thread, but in Post #23 there is a link to F4U-4 Corsair BuNo. 97330.

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