# Cold war jets dirt run way ?



## Haztoys (Feb 14, 2006)

Could a cold war jet be flown off of.. And landed on.. A dirt runway?

And how much of "said" runway would a USA or USSR small fighter of the Cold War need to take off and land ? 

Thanks 

David 

Hazardous Toys inc


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 14, 2006)

Most Soviet cold war combat aircraft were designed to be operated from dirt strips - 

As far as take off distances - it depends...
Load, air temp, runway elevation above sea level, that's for starters....


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## Haztoys (Feb 15, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Most Soviet cold war combat aircraft were designed to be operated from dirt strips -
> 
> As far as take off distances - it depends...
> Load, air temp, runway elevation above sea level, that's for starters....



So what would max runway length for take off be at 5000 feet elevation...Just about numbers... Say a "light" load..? 

Thanks 

David 

Hazardous Toys inc


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## pbfoot (Feb 15, 2006)

I can't find any pics but i believe the Mig 23 even had a "mudguard " on the nose wheel to prevent FOD from being thrown up


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 15, 2006)

Here are some examples

These are all at sea level - to figure out what the distances would be at 5000' you would need the POH - there are charts that will give you those distances based on temperature...

Mig-15 take off distance was 400m
F-86D Takeoff distance to clear 50-foot obstacle: 3600 feet
F-14A Minimum takeoff distance 1400 feet
L-29 Takeoff distance to clear 50-foot obstacle: 3500 feet


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 15, 2006)

Just remembered, you normally add 10% to the published take off distance for grass or dirt runways, and that's before you compensate for altitude and air temp....


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## pbfoot (Feb 15, 2006)

Did the Warpac hi-performance combat aircraft have arrestor hooks and if they used a rough field was there any arrester system ?


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 15, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> Did the Warpac hi-performance combat aircraft have arrestor hooks and if they used a rough field was there any arrester system ?



From East block aircraft I've seen really up close or worked on (Mig-15, 17, 19, 21, 23, L-29, L-39, TS-11) I've never seen any arrestor system - No need for arrestor systems on dirt runways, the same way the take off distance is usually and additional 10%, landing distance is usually reduced 10% on dirt strips for most aircraft....


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## Haztoys (Feb 21, 2006)

Thanks..FLYBOYJ 

You seem to really know your Cold War jets 

Will I have anuff land for "my" runway in my back yard (500+ acres 8) )

And I can legally have the runway in my back yard 8) 

Now I just need the right jet.... 

"Yes Mr Tax Man".... That Mig 17 is used for crop dusting on my farm...And "the right to farm law" says I can have the run way ,,Legally

So I can wright the plane off as a farm tool on my taxes..Just like a truck or a tractor

That's my plan guys ...

My tax lawyer almost choked... When I asked him... Then he called me back after he looked in to it ..And said it looks to be legal .. He was laughing so hard he could hardly speak... He says I should of been a tax lawyer the way I find the holes in the tax rules....  

I know I'm crazy ... But this is just another stupid stunt I'm going to pull off ... In a long line of stupid stunt...LOL ..I've gotten away with ..


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 21, 2006)

man that sounds cool  if you're really strapped for space though get a harrier.... infact just get a harrier anyway!


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 22, 2006)

Nah it sounds more impressive saying you have a MiG


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## R988 (Apr 4, 2006)

could always get a yak-38, maybe the tax man will think it's a farm animal


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## Graeme (Apr 30, 2009)

Apologies for bringing back the dead, but I was Googling "MiG-15 lands on grass runways" and this thread was a hit. (I've noticed that a few times now!)

Mig 15 lands on grass runways - Google Search

Although it was part of the design requirement did the MiG-15 ever land on dirt, grass or unprepared strips on a *regular* basis? Were squadrons based on such runways? Was concrete scarce in early post war USSR?

Found this...

A Cold War Defection


> Jarecki had been briefed that there was a large American Air Base on Bornholm so he had little worry about his landing. Thus his surprise was great when he realised that there was no Air Base or American aircraft on the island but only a 1200 m long grass strip of Rønne Airport *hardly suitable for landing his jet. *To the amazement of the local population Jarecki circled the island looking for the “American Air Base” until he realized that the only way down was at the small strip. He executed a perfect wheels down landing!



I also found this photo the other day. The Polish Lim-5M (derived from the MiG 17). Notice the *four* main wheels and the bulky wing root to accommodate them and extra fuel. 

The idea was that the redesigned undercarriage_ "allows to completely resign from exploitation of these planes on concrete, ashpalt, or other hard surface runways". _

But this was 1960, would this requirement have been really needed then?..


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## HoHun (Apr 30, 2009)

Hi Flyboyj,

>From East block aircraft I've seen really up close or worked on (Mig-15, 17, 19, 21, 23, L-29, L-39, TS-11) I've never seen any arrestor system - No need for arrestor systems on dirt runways, the same way the take off distance is usually and additional 10%, landing distance is usually reduced 10% on dirt strips for most aircraft....

The GDR at least developed arrestor systems for the MiGs and Sukhois they were using, but these were of the barrier type and did not require special equipment on the aircraft.

One variant of the system was mobile and could be deployed anywhere at short notice, but I don't know if they ever used it for dirt strips.

The barrier was normally lowered so it wouldn't interfere with flight operations, but could be raised in a couple of seconds. In the early variants it was activated by the tower (normally upon request by the pilot), but the later variants seem to have been triggered when a photocell registered that the beam of light aimed at it across the runway was interrupted. (Grr, what's the English term for that type of sensor? Couldn't find it!)

I assume photocell-triggering had to be armed by the tower too, or the system wouldn't have become as "MiG catcher" as it was historically, but as "deer catcher"! 

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## HoHun (Apr 30, 2009)

Pictures ...


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