# Pre-1942: He-111 or HP Hampden?



## tomo pauk (Mar 12, 2011)

Two widely-produced bombers that gave sterling service for many air forces. What one would be your choice?
Please note that poll should cover period till end of 1941 - Hampden was to be replaced with 4-engined designs, while mishaps of He-177 prompted RLM to update the old 111.


----------



## fastmongrel (Mar 12, 2011)

Wasnt the RAF equivalent of the He 111 the Vickers Wellington.


----------



## davebender (Mar 12, 2011)

*Hampden Mk I*
8,508kg Loaded
5,344kg Empty
3,164kg Payload

*He-111 H3.* 1,200hp Jumo211D engines.
14,000kg Loaded
7,720kg Empty
6,280kg Payload

The He-111 was larger and had more powerful engines. As one would expect that translates into a larger payload.

*Do-17Z2*
8,578kg loaded
5,209kg empty
3,369kg payload
IMO this is the German equivalent to the Hampden. Not surprisingly, both aircraft ended production about the same time. Both were obsolecent by 1940.


----------



## tomo pauk (Mar 12, 2011)

fastmongrel said:


> Wasnt the RAF equivalent of the He 111 the Vickers Wellington.



Maybe, this pair crossed my mind so I started the poll.


----------



## tomo pauk (Mar 12, 2011)

davebender said:


> *Hampden Mk I*
> 8,508kg Loaded
> 5,344kg Empty
> 3,164kg Payload
> ...


 
Dave, perhaps you'd need to double-check the payload (bomb load?) figures. Plus, payload vs. range figures could be more useful here.


----------



## Glider (Mar 12, 2011)

Have to agree
Do 17 similar to Hampden
He111 equates to Wellington

Which do you want to compare?


----------



## davebender (Mar 12, 2011)

Any medium or large bomber can carry auxiliary fuel tanks ILO a portion of the bomb load. You can also carry a large crew plus a dozen or more defensive machineguns ILO bombs and/or fuel. Hence total payload is the figure that really matters in determining bomber striking power.


----------



## parsifal (Mar 12, 2011)

I would say the he 111 was the more capable type, and because of its larger size was capable of greater stretch in the design


The last major He 111 subtype introduced prior to 1941 was the H-6. The H-6 had a defensive armament of 1x20mm plus 6 x7.92 MG. Some aircraft also had a further 7.92 in a fixed rearward firing position. Effective maximum bombload was 4410lb internal, which could be increased to 5510lb if external racks were fitted. The He 111 could carry even heavier loads, out to about 8000lb, over very short distances, and provided massive performance penalties were accepted. This in fact was the major criticism of the he111. As time progressed it became massively overloaded, and paid a huge penalty in performance.

A good summary of the hampden is provided in this link
Handley Page Hampden

There is not a lot of difference in the lift capacity , once external racks were fitted to the hampden, It always retained a somewhat higher speed over the heinkel, but had less range, and suffered a poor design layout. Its ability for modification was limited by its relatively small size and cramped layout, whi9ch is the main reason why i think it was more limited compared to the heinkel


----------



## tomo pauk (Mar 13, 2011)

Hi, Glider,
This thread covers He-111 vs. Hampden.
Feel free to start any other.

As for Do-17, don't think capabilities were on par with Hampden.


----------



## fastmongrel (Mar 13, 2011)

Did the Hampden have any success as a torpedo bomber.


----------



## tomo pauk (Mar 13, 2011)

davebender said:


> Any medium or large bomber can carry auxiliary fuel tanks ILO a portion of the bomb load. You can also carry a large crew plus a dozen or more defensive machineguns ILO bombs and/or fuel. Hence total payload is the figure that really matters in determining bomber striking power.



You seem numbers-kind of a guy. Why not stating eg. He-111 can carry xxx kg of bombs against 1000 km distant target, cruisng at yyy km/h, and then do the same for Hampden?


----------



## Glider (Mar 13, 2011)

In that case it has to be the He111. One is a light bomber the other a medium bomber with a greater range, payload, defence, flexibility and a similar performance.


----------



## woljags (Mar 13, 2011)

during the 1960's early 70's the last remaining hampden was sitting tailess in the scrap yard at RAF manston Kent,does anyone know of any photos of it that still exsist and which model it was,i remember seeing it should next to a White Vulcan bomber,they also had 3 gate guardians of a spitfire/canberra and javelin of which i have some old photos somewhere,the hampden was too far away for my old camara to get any shots


----------



## Airframes (Mar 13, 2011)

Haven't seen that one, but from 1991 onwards, there was a Hampden being restored at East Kirby, Lincs. Don't know the current status though.


----------

