# Why 70s American cars were terrible



## Colin1 (Aug 4, 2010)

225bhp from a 7.5 litre V8?!?!
I'd want my money back

PistonHeads Headlines


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Aug 4, 2010)

One of the guys I work with is restoring a 1973 Hurst Olds. Needless to say the heads have been worked the cam upgraded along with the induction system. Should be somewhere near 425-450 horsepower. They were a PIG stock.


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## Colin1 (Aug 4, 2010)

Aaron Brooks Wolters said:


> One of the guys I work with is restoring a 1973 Hurst Olds. Needless to say the heads have been worked the cam upgraded along with the induction system. Should be somewhere near 425-450 horsepower. They were a PIG stock.


Sounds more respectable
can those old crates be made to handle?


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Aug 4, 2010)

Yes, a company called Global West makes suspension parts for them. You can actually get them to out handle a stock Corvette and if you are willing to go a little further you can dish it out with a ZO6. We built a 1969 Chevelle that will pull 1 G , run the quarter mile in 12.61 seconds at 118 mph and I have seen 145 mph down the backstretch at Road Atlanta and the tach was only reading 4500 rpms. Air Ride Technologies silver Mustang could not keep up with it on the autocross course either.


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## Colin1 (Aug 4, 2010)

Aaron Brooks Wolters said:


> Yes, a company called Global West makes suspension parts for them. You can actually get them to out handle a stock Corvette and if you are willing to go a little further you can dish it out with a ZO6. We built a 1969 Chevelle that will pull 1 G , run the quarter mile in 12.61 seconds at 118 mph and I have seen 145 mph down the backstretch at Road Atlanta and the tach was only reading 4500 rpms. Air Ride Technologies silver Mustang could not keep up with it on the autocross course either.


...more like it! 8)


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Aug 4, 2010)

I'll have to see if I can find some photos of it, it made it into at least three magazines and made the cover of Popular Hot Rodding in March 04'.


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## timshatz (Aug 4, 2010)

Also the Cars in the US back in the 70s were designed for "Planned Obsolescence". In other words, they were supposed to fall apart in 3-5 years. And they did. 

Lousy cars but fun times in them!


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## Messy1 (Aug 4, 2010)

The only way the American manufacturers could meet new emission standards the government placed suddenly on the auto industry in the early 70's with the motors they had on hand, was to basically lower the compression drastically. Suddenly, high performance motors were a bad thing. So, cars went from one year earlier having 400 plus horsepower on hand in big blocks from GM, Ford, and Chrysler, to under 300, then 200 horsepower and it steadily dropped off. Not only did horsepower drop off, but most cars continued the current trends of the time and kept on getting bigger, and bigger. A friend of mine owns a late 70's Corvette, GM's flagship for performance. It has a plaque on the dash _*boasting*_ of it's IIRC 170-180 hp, and about the same torque!! Detroit was suddenly thrust into the economy arena where gas mileage and emissions were the most important, not performance. And they had neither the motors or cars to combat the more and more popular import cars from Japan.


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## syscom3 (Aug 4, 2010)

Messy1; the number one reason the muscle cars headed for extinction was not the gas mileage or emissions.

It was the insurance costs. Those agency's were beginning to require some hefty big time premiums.


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## BombTaxi (Aug 4, 2010)

timshatz said:


> Also the Cars in the US back in the 70s were designed for "Planned Obsolescence". In other words, they were supposed to fall apart in 3-5 years. And they did.
> 
> Lousy cars but fun times in them!



Right on the money there Tim. Every time I'm in the States and I get in a US-built car I am horrified by the build quality and the, well, sluggishness. My first car was 15 years old, my second one eight, at the time I bought them, and they both ran fine, and lasted well - in fact the second one is still around and the 1st would be if it hadn't been nicked and smashed up in the process. I doubt you'll see an American car last that long... OTOH, you guys probably do more mileage going to the shops than I do going to work, the shops and everywhere else, so there is an element of swings and roundabouts


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## davparlr (Aug 4, 2010)

Incompetent and greedy management. Faced with redesign cost due to fuel shortage, crash protection, and emissions, and, with a desire to maintain stock prices and bonuses, needed to reduce cost and did that by reducing quality. An example,in the 80s, was the Pontiac Feiro, a four cylinder pseudo sports car with possibilities. The engine manufacturing manager was graded and paid based on quantities delivered. He had a failure problem in the manufacture of connecting rods, a 6% failure rate. He determined that this was an acceptable failure rate and implementing changes would be more expensive than repair (kind of like the pinto problem). However, a 6% failure rate is one bad rod in sixteen, and, since each Feiro engine has four connecting rods, the Feiro experienced an engine failure in every fourth car, a 25% failure rate, and that just killed public opinion. In the 70s the American auto manufactures had the money and the talent to build high quality cars that addressed all the issues, just like the Japanese. They just did not want to spend their bonuses to provide the cars that their, up to that time, loyal, customers wanted. Take that and add to the unbelievable greed from unions and you take a company, GM, nudging 60% of the largest auto market in the world and take it to bankruptcy in 30 years.


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Aug 4, 2010)

BombTaxi said:


> Right on the money there Tim. Every time I'm in the States and I get in a US-built car I am horrified by the build quality and the, well, sluggishness. My first car was 15 years old, my second one eight, at the time I bought them, and they both ran fine, and lasted well - in fact the second one is still around and the 1st would be if it hadn't been nicked and smashed up in the process. I doubt you'll see an American car last that long... OTOH, you guys probably do more mileage going to the shops than I do going to work, the shops and everywhere else, so there is an element of swings and roundabouts



Oh I beg to differ BT. I have a 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 244,100 miles on it. I burn no oil, it leaks very little. Everything on it still works. It gets 18 to 20 mpg back and forth to work which is 31 miles one way and even better on trips. It is a 5.2 liter V8 and I would not trade it for the world. The 70s were a bad time for the auto industry. Between insurance and gov. restrictions it was tough. I don't agree with all of the rules and regulations they have now but car built here last as long or longer than ever but you must take care of them.


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## Colin1 (Aug 5, 2010)

Aaron Brooks Wolters said:


> The 70s were a bad time for the auto industry


...as anyone who can remember British Leyland will testify


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## Lucky13 (Aug 5, 2010)

The good ol' US of A iron, were at its best in the late 20's, the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's and a few in '70 and '71....'71 Hemi Cuda! Mmmm!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 5, 2010)

Aaron Brooks Wolters said:


> Oh I beg to differ BT. I have a 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 244,100 miles on it. I burn no oil, it leaks very little. Everything on it still works. It gets 18 to 20 mpg back and forth to work which is 31 miles one way and even better on trips. It is a 5.2 liter V8 and I would not trade it for the world. The 70s were a bad time for the auto industry. Between insurance and gov. restrictions it was tough. I don't agree with all of the rules and regulations they have now but car built here last as long or longer than ever but you must take care of them.



+1 my friend!

Jeeps rule! My older 95 Grand Cherokee was a 5.2 V8. When I finally got rid of her, she had 199,000 miles on her and had been going strong!

My new Jeep Grand Cherokee is very well built (as all Jeeps are) and she is very far from sluggish. MPG is also great for a SUV.


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## robwkamm (Aug 5, 2010)

being in the auto repair industry i agree with some of your comments. the jeeps had great long life engines. the old strait six is bomb proof. i own about 10 cars in the currrent collection. i have a 76 trasns am 455 4 speed which makes the 73 olds look fast! 200hp. i have a 71 mini (british playland) thats a blast to drive when its not broken down. its all good. the current crop for new cars out there arent so stellar either. keeps me in buisness. whats the deal with brake rotors? they rust away on low milage cars nowadays.


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## Njaco (Aug 5, 2010)

My main complaint was design. Detroit never learned that the "Bigger is better" mantra of the '50s didn't sit well heading into the 70s. The Mercury cougar to me is a prime example: Great car (design-wise, attractive) when it came out in '68 but OMG it ballooned. Mustang didn't fare any better with some reverse design - making it smaller by putting it on a Pinto chassis. Big mistake.

Creativity took a back seat in the 70s and as far as I am concerned, still holds true today. I think the cars of today are cream-of-wheat - suppositories on wheels.


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## Colin1 (Aug 5, 2010)

Njaco said:


> The Mercury cougar to me is a prime example


On my first tour
one of the REME lads in the LAD had a Mercury Cougar XR7. I'm glad it wasn't painted grey, Steven Seagal would've shot Under Siege in it. He used to run workshops for anyone wanting to learn about car mechanics on a couple of evenings and I'd look in on his while he was working on it. Everything was big. The bonnet (hood) was bigger than my whole car (well, not quite but you get the picture)


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## BombTaxi (Aug 5, 2010)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> +1 my friend!
> 
> Jeeps rule! My older 95 Grand Cherokee was a 5.2 V8. When I finally got rid of her, she had 199,000 miles on her and had been going strong!
> 
> My new Jeep Grand Cherokee is very well built (as all Jeeps are) and she is very far from sluggish. MPG is also great for a SUV.



I will stand corrected on that one then  But my general experience is that US cars are, in the main, still built with a short life expectancy compared to European and Japanese counterparts. Also, 18-20mpg would induce heart attcks here, I felt very hard done by getting 36-37 out of my 1.6 litre Astra! (Although, granted, the US gallon is somewhat smaller than the Imperial measure)

I'm looking at upgrading in the near-ish future to a Seat Leon 1.6 TDi. It uses the VW Group engine, which achieves about 60 to the gallon and emissions are so low that it is exempt from UK road tax. More money to spend on filling it up and blasting around the countryside in it! 8)


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## Colin1 (Aug 5, 2010)

BombTaxi said:


> ...and blasting around the countryside in it!


In a 1.6 diesel???


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 5, 2010)

BombTaxi said:


> I will stand corrected on that one then  But my general experience is that US cars are, in the main, still built with a short life expectancy compared to European and Japanese counterparts.



For the most part I will actually agree with you...


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## BombTaxi (Aug 5, 2010)

Colin1 said:


> In a 1.6 diesel???



They're rather pokey. Not an Audi S3 of course, but quick all the same. Vorsprung Durch Technik don'cha know? 

(And that isn't a misquote, it's the same engine as in the Audi A3, VW Golf and Skoda Fabia).


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 5, 2010)

Njaco said:


> I think the cars of today are cream-of-wheat - suppositories on wheels.



LMAO


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## Colin1 (Aug 5, 2010)

BombTaxi said:


> (And that isn't a misquote, it's the same engine as in the Audi A3, VW Golf and Skoda Fabia).


Hang on a minute
the Misquote had two Merlin engines...


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## BombTaxi (Aug 5, 2010)

Colin1 said:


> Hang on a minute
> the Misquote had two Merlin engines...



Ohhhh Noooooo....


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## Colin1 (Aug 5, 2010)

BombTaxi said:


> Ohhhh Noooooo....


Give me SOME credit - it's almost an anagram


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## Airframes (Aug 5, 2010)

Wasn't the Anagram the latest sports-hatch from Hyundai ?!
Have to admit I've had a '95 Jeep Cherokee for over 5 years now, and it just goes on and on. Got a slight electrical problem at the moment no one can solve (!), but I'm sure it's just a broken connection somewhere. The MPG is around 18 around town, which hurts, but on a long run, especially with cruise control, it's between 25 and 30, which isn't bad for a 4 litre engine. I will say though, that although it's well built overall, there are some very poor areas, such as the tangle of wiring, and some of the plastic fittings such as the seat back adjuster - which always falls off ! I do wonder if ther build quality owes something to its designed off-road role, where it is better made and stronger than the average American car I've had experience of.


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## Lucky13 (Aug 6, 2010)

At least back in the day, you could fix your own car, without having to have one or several Phd, Dr, Prof or anything like that....you could actually see where the sparkplugs were!


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## Njaco (Aug 6, 2010)

Lucky13 said:


> At least back in the day, you could fix your own car, without having to have one or several Phd, Dr, Prof or anything like that....you could actually see where the sparkplugs were!



AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH!!!!


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## B-17engineer (Aug 6, 2010)

My dad just bought a 2010 Toyota Camry and my moms had a 2005 Honda Pilot since It came out. She has 270,000 miles on hers and my dad has about 9,000 on his.


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## Messy1 (Aug 6, 2010)

BombTaxi said:


> I will stand corrected on that one then  But my general experience is that US cars are, in the main, still built with a short life expectancy compared to European and Japanese counterparts. Also, 18-20mpg would induce heart attcks here, I felt very hard done by getting 36-37 out of my 1.6 litre Astra! (Although, granted, the US gallon is somewhat smaller than the Imperial measure)
> 
> I'm looking at upgrading in the near-ish future to a Seat Leon 1.6 TDi. It uses the VW Group engine, which achieves about 60 to the gallon and emissions are so low that it is exempt from UK road tax. More money to spend on filling it up and blasting around the countryside in it! 8)



BT, I would have to disagree with you with one example. GM 3.8 liters are/were exceptionally reliable motors. Best motor GM ever produced IMO. My parents had two 3.8 equipped GM FWD cars, and both motors went over 200,00 miles. The motor in a 87 Buick actually went into a Oldsmobile with a bad motor when the Buick's transmission went out. At that point the Buick's engine had 230,000 miles on it, we drove the Olds for another 20K, and then sold the car. The only thing we ever had to do to that motor was changed it's timing chain at one point. I know personally of several friends and co workers who had cars equipped with the 3.8 that had similar results. The cars actually gave out before the engines did, but with over 200,00 miles, it's hard to blame them.


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## BombTaxi (Aug 6, 2010)

Lucky13 said:


> At least back in the day, you could fix your own car, without having to have one or several Phd, Dr, Prof or anything like that....you could actually see where the sparkplugs were!



I miss my first car, a Mk1 Corsa, for exactly that reason. It only went to the garage for servicing, and once to have a new thermostat on the radiator fan. My dad didn't think dropping the radiator out on the drive would be a great idea...


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## syscom3 (Aug 6, 2010)

B-17engineer said:


> My dad just bought a 2010 Toyota Camry and my moms had a 2005 Honda Pilot since It came out. She has 270,000 miles on hers and my dad has about 9,000 on his.



270,000 miles on a car thats five years old?


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## Colin1 (Aug 6, 2010)

syscom3 said:


> 270,000 miles on a car thats five years old?


54,000 miles a year
that's a pretty fierce commute...


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## B-17engineer (Aug 6, 2010)

Well all our big road trips and driving me and my brothers around and work. Yes. Errr typo 2003....

Also we did have my grandpa's 1993 Jeep Cherokee and it started have some problems 2 yearrs ago so we let my cousin have it


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## Lucky13 (Aug 6, 2010)

Wasn't that lovely car in Wayne's World a child of the '70's? The car name escapes me....


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## syscom3 (Aug 6, 2010)

The AMC Pacer?


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 6, 2010)

That's the one, aka Rolling Greenhouse


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## syscom3 (Aug 6, 2010)

Lucky13, please enjoy.


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