# Americans and the German Jets



## Rell (Mar 12, 2004)

This has been mentioned in other forums Ive noticed, some people think that even if the Americans were not involved in the war we still would have won it just would have taken abit longer.

These are mostly the same people that believe that one of the main factors we won was due to our more supierer aircraft.

But if the war had gone on longer then the Germans would have more than likely started using their jet aircrafts thus making their airforce far more supierer?


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## Huckebein (Mar 12, 2004)

True, but in logistical and industrial terms the combined weight of the British Empire and the USSR would still have crushed the Germans and Japanese eventually. Also, am I not right in saying that had the US not entered the war, all those European scientists who fled Germany and petitioned Roosevelt to start a nuclear program would have come to either Britain or Russia instead? The big differences post-war as a result of an American-free WWII would be an Iron Curtain which covered the whole of Europe save perhaps Britain and maybe France, and the USSR being the _only_ hyperpower in existence. The British Empire may have lasted a little longer, and it would have been a far more equally-balanced team of USA+UK Vs. USSR, assuming the Cold War occurred at all without Truman's meddlings... Today - I'd have though we'd be in more or less the same position, but with the whole of Europe ravaged by Communism only Britain and America would be superpowers, possibly even opposing ones...


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 12, 2004)

wow a communist europe..... the thought is mouth watering


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 12, 2004)

in the cold war most people didn't realise this but we (the brits) would have been the first target for the USSR, not the USA...................


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 12, 2004)

well they should hav bloody well taken us over!


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## kiwimac (Mar 12, 2004)

That is now the job of the Fourth and a Half Reich.

Stay in your houses, we will protect you!

This has been a service announcement on behalf of Das Vierten und halbs Reich!

FVS Kiwimac


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## Hot Space (Mar 12, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> well they should hav bloody well taken us over!



 

Hot Space


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 13, 2004)

he's a bit of a fan of the russians.........................


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## Hot Space (Mar 13, 2004)

They have nice Hats, the Russians  

Hot Space


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 13, 2004)

yup, me dad's got 1


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 13, 2004)

they have shitty weather, the russians


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 13, 2004)

funny, so do we........................


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 14, 2004)

> yup, me dad's got 1



ive got the coat, i need a hat..... get my drift?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 14, 2004)

ha but you aint got the accent................


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## Hot Space (Mar 14, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> > yup, me dad's got 1
> 
> 
> 
> ive got the coat, i need a hat..... get my drift?



  

Hot Space


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 14, 2004)

you're just jelous cos we really know how to spam....................


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## Hot Space (Mar 14, 2004)

Who is?

Hot Space


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 20, 2004)

spamming is my trade, my name is cheddar cheese, i am cheddar cheese the spammer 8)


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 21, 2004)

(spam!)

Reichsmarschall Batista


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 21, 2004)

8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 21, 2004)

in that case, my name is the lancaster kicks ass, that makes me an ass


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## jj1982 (Mar 22, 2004)

well, what can i say....ive forgotten what this post is meant to be about...i started offf with a intelligent answer (Honest!) but by the time i have read all the worthless spam i've forgotten....oh well....keep up the spam CC


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 22, 2004)

> keep up the spam CC



spam? i dont spam 8)


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## jj1982 (Mar 22, 2004)

> spamming is my trade, my name is cheddar cheese, i am cheddar cheese the spammer


 CC then wrote....


> spam? i dont spam


forgive for being ever so slightly confused???!!!?!?!?!?!?!


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## jj1982 (Mar 22, 2004)

whilst we are on the subject of spamm.......is anyone else getting annoying popups from timelife advertising finding nemo on DVD or littlewoods casinos???it is really beginning to annoy me as it is really annoying!


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 22, 2004)

good observation skills 8) you should fly a storch


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## jj1982 (Mar 22, 2004)

Well i think i would be better suited to a hurricane.....


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 22, 2004)

im not trusting you with a hurricane


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## jj1982 (Mar 22, 2004)

possibly a good idea! How about the chap that wipes over the planes with a rag before takeoff??? I could manage that one thinks!


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 22, 2004)

hmmmmm, do you have GCSE's in wiping-planes-with-an-old-rag? 8)


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## jj1982 (Mar 22, 2004)

i got an A level in arse licking....does that count???


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 24, 2004)

i am willing to doubt the integirity of that comment................


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## jj1982 (Mar 24, 2004)

well its true....and i excel at it.....ask bronze...


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 24, 2004)

well then lick my arse


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 26, 2004)

Rell said:


> This has been mentioned in other forums Ive noticed, some people think that even if the Americans were not involved in the war we still would have won it just would have taken abit longer.
> 
> These are mostly the same people that believe that one of the main factors we won was due to our more supierer aircraft.
> 
> But if the war had gone on longer then the Germans would have more than likely started using their jet aircrafts thus making their airforce far more supierer?



Its true they would've used they're jets to their full potential but the Brits and the Yanks had their own Jets on the drawing boards  - the Brits had the Gloster Meteor and the DH Vampire and the Yanks had the aircomet (a shite jet but still a jet  )

peeps often type messages on this board going on about German jets and how much trouble the allies would've been in if the war had gone on longer or the Americans weren't involved etc  
but they seem to forget that the allies had jets too (ok perhaps not up to the standards of the Me262 but we weren't far off) and we where more than capable of meeting and defying the German Jet threat...don't forget our Spitfires and Mustang escorts were already shooting down German jets when they attacked Bomber formations...


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 26, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> well then lick my arse



Beleive me you DON'T want JJ to lick your arse


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 26, 2004)

jj1982 said:


> well its true....and i excel at it.....ask bronze...



Yes its true..he can wrap just about anybody around his little finger (for instance he once convinced a pub manager that he was a chef even though the only cooking experience he has is marshmallows over a campfire at cub scouts ) - its never worked on me though - he does seem to think its something to be proud of though which has always concerned me....


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## jj1982 (Mar 26, 2004)

I am truly proud of my expertise of blagging...its got me out of trouble from the law...got me cushy jobs in pubs and it saved me from being booted from this forum!!!!!

Only joking HS....i love you all...


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 26, 2004)

> Beleive me you DON'T want JJ to lick your arse


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 11, 2004)

> i love you all...



don't worry, there's no shame in loving me, lots of people do it................


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## ahanswurst (Apr 11, 2004)

In the mid 1940's The Americans were so far behind in jet engine production the English had to ship one of their jet engines over to the USA to examine. I was an aircraft jet engine mechanic in the 1960's and in Tech school we had several axial flow engines to show their working internal parts. These axial flow engines were so different from the J-79 made them look like a cookoo clock costruction. But the axial flow engines got the job done even though they had to be overhauled after 25 hours of operation. The types of metal available were the problem with keeping the axial flow engines from throwing turbine blades. Until a suitable method of keeping the blades attached to the hub for longer periods was discovered the axial flow engines were doomed.


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## Hot Space (Apr 12, 2004)

jj1982 said:


> I am truly proud of my expertise of blagging...its got me out of trouble from the law...got me cushy jobs in pubs and it saved me from being booted from this forum!!!!!
> 
> Only joking HS....i love you all...



I love you to, dear  

Hot Space


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 12, 2004)

didn't the ME-262's engines have to be replaced every 10 hours due to metal expansion...............


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## GermansRGeniuses (Apr 12, 2004)

it was 20, actually


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 12, 2004)

no, it was 10............


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## GermansRGeniuses (Apr 12, 2004)

IT WAS 20!!!!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 12, 2004)

10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## GermansRGeniuses (Apr 12, 2004)

i say its 20 because it was so and thus i am ending this pointless argumeant because i am right!!!! (20!!!!!)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 12, 2004)

IT WAS 10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## GermansRGeniuses (Apr 12, 2004)

did someone say something about a dead argument?


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## kiwimac (Apr 13, 2004)

25.5 actually!

FVS Kiwimac


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 13, 2004)

Even if it WAS 20 - thats still pretty shit isn't it?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 13, 2004)

but it wasn't, IT WAS 10!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## plan_D (Apr 13, 2004)

You can't really complain since the idea was just coming into usage.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 14, 2004)

yeah, and if they had the material they would have made it, but they just didn't.....................


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## GermansRGeniuses (Apr 14, 2004)

bronzewhaler82 said:


> Even if it WAS 20 - thats still pretty s**t isn't it?


 hey hey hey the Napier Sabre engine in you brit's beloved tiffy only lasted 20 hours as well (i do like the tiffy though, im just saying the enigne was unreliable)


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 15, 2004)

i heard somewhere it was 7 hours 8) ( for the 262's engines)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 15, 2004)

it was 10!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 16, 2004)

i know, theres only one way to settle this  

7 + 10 + 20 + 25.5 = 62.5

62.5 divided by 4 = 15.625 8)

the engines on and me262 lasted 15.625 hours


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 16, 2004)

but what if to make things akward, i said they lasted 9.9 hours?


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 19, 2004)

then i would recalculate 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 23, 2004)

good answer...............


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 1, 2004)

of course it is, i thought of it 8)


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## Erich (Jun 1, 2004)

geez what a bunch of wasted pages. what references are you guyz using anyway to come up with these stats on engines ?


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 1, 2004)

we do our best


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## Erich (Jun 1, 2004)

at what ? padding your postings which on most web-sites is not tolerated by the administration..........

let's quit the baby talk shall we and start posting some intelligent responses please...........instead of two words or one liners.


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 2, 2004)

well im sorry if im not as smart as you


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## plan_D (Jun 2, 2004)

I've got this picture of a Me-262A-1a that saw service in JG-7 and it's got RAF markings on it. The picture was taken at Farnborough, the strange thing is..RAF markings suit it. 

Erich, is it true that some of the later Schwalbes serving with KG (J) 54 and JV44 only had the two outer guns?


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## Erich (Jun 2, 2004)

outer guns ? no they would have had all four 3cm weapons and the pilot could choose to fire only two at a time if he wished.

E ~


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## Lightning Guy (Jun 2, 2004)

I've got a flight sim where the Me-262 is only equipped with (or at least can only fire) 2 of its guns when it is carrying bombs. Anyone know where they came up with that?


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## Erich (Jun 2, 2004)

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm will have to dig in the references. probably thinking that the Me 262A-2 was fitted with only two Mk 108's.


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## plan_D (Jun 2, 2004)

I have actually seen a picture of a Me-262 with only two guns in the nose but I did not know what kind it was. The caption says it's a A-1a because it can't be a A-1a/U3 because they had no guns, and it has no bomb racks.


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## Erich (Jun 2, 2004)

hmmmmmmmm, something is wrong with this scenario as it should have a total of four Mk 108's and not just two.

E ~


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## plan_D (Jun 2, 2004)

I am not pulling your leg, if I could get the picture on here for you, I would.


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## HealzDevo (Nov 6, 2005)

Interesting however, there is a line of thought that the Germans already had their jets in service before the British and Americans. Therefore the Germans had an advantage there. In addition they already were drawing up their next generation jets including one which looks suspiciously like a MiG-15. Don't forget also that the Soviets took one of the German Prototypes of this particular type, think it was the P.1008 or something away for analysis by their scientists. The Allies were very unwilling to deploy too much new equipment after WW2 and ended up getting surprised by the MiG-15 over Korea and Vietnam. It may have been a similar case in WW2 as well with the Allies constantly scrambling to keep up and counter the latest German fighters and bombers. Therefore we would have faced an Alice in Wonderland scenario where every time the Allies caught up the Germans may have moved the goal posts.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 6, 2005)

HealzDevo said:


> The Allies were very unwilling to deploy too much new equipment after WW2 and ended up getting surprised by the MiG-15 over Korea and Vietnam.



The surprise over Korea was the thought of the Mig-15 being "advanced" with performance rivaling the F-86. Compared to the F-86 the only thing advanced about the Mig-15 was it's simplicity and aerodynamics, aside from that, the aircraft is a "tinker toy." The 86 had a lot of "wiz-bang" features that sometimes hindered it's performance. I know this first hand, I've worked on both aircraft...

The Mig-15 was not used in Viet Nam. The NVAF only operated Mig-15 UTIs (Trainers)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 12, 2005)

HealzDevo said:


> German Prototypes of this particular type, think it was the P.1008 or something away for analysis by their scientists.



The Russians took the Ta-183 the United States took the Messerschmitt P.1011


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