# Go-229



## plan_D (Jun 26, 2004)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 26, 2004)

wow, what a post........................


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## ev0 (Jun 26, 2004)

iWas the go-229 just that "small"?


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## plan_D (Jun 26, 2004)

You don't like the picture, Lanc?


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## Gemhorse (Jun 26, 2004)

Awesome plan-D !!! - I only read about the Gotha recently, as you probably noticed by my mentions in recent posts...What a fantastic design this aircraft was back in the early 1940's, and it's then potential if they had've got it into service ! - I'm really fascinated with the aerodynamics they were onto then, which has obviously lead to the 'Flying Wing' designs the US got into in the 1950's, and as you've illustrated, the 'Stealth Fighters' of today....sixty years of design-evolution to arrive at them...I saw the connection when flicking through the book Erich asked about that I was reading, and first saw the Go 229. - I shall watch for more commentary on this post, as I believe this may have been the most contraversial design, next to German Rocketry, that came out of WWII....


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## Lightning Guy (Jun 26, 2004)

Gemhorse, the USAAF was looking into flying wings well before the 1950s. Northrop's P-79 program was underway in 1943 and the original contract for the Northrop B-35 was signed in Nov. 1941!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 27, 2004)

sorry Plan_D but it doesn't come up on my computer, it just shows that small red cross, i just thought everyone would have the same problem??


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## plan_D (Jun 27, 2004)

It's a picture of the B-2 Spirit with a computer image of the Go-229 placed behind it. You can see the similarities between the two very clearly. 
Amazing really that the B-2 used computers not only for design purposes but to merely keep it flying on the straight a level when the Go-229 was designed on the pure knowledge of aeronautical engineering. 

I'm sorry you can't see it.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 27, 2004)

so am I


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## Gemhorse (Jun 28, 2004)

Yeah, plan-D's pic comes up on mine OK, but I've just gotta figure-out how to post pics from mine....I've only been into PC's for a year, haven't exactly had any major tuition... - being able to do that type of 'computer-generated pic,' etc., is what I'm trying to learn. I can paint it OK, by brush, but learning this computer-technology takes time I guess. - LG's onto the 'Flying Wing' history...I've only heard of it, so to speak, but it's a fascinating part of Aviation Development - Are there any particular books on the subject available ? - What I've read on the Gotha is as plan-D says, their actual flying characteristics were superb, but this was obviously due to all the Glider development behind the Go 229, as the developers, the Horten Bros. were originally from that ' field.' As with the reliability of German Jets, this was where probrems were, not with the aerodynamics...If they re-built one today, with today's reliable jet engines, it would be very impressive, I believe...considering the design's 60 years old.....


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## plan_D (Jun 28, 2004)

Even with the engines that the Germans had I read it was a very good plane, the only trouble I saw was that the original Jumo 003 (if I remember) were too big for the designated areas provided. 
It was predicted to go 512mph at sea level and the flight charateristics were supposed to be amazing. There's mention of it all the time on here, but no one seems to have devoted a thread to it. I felt it was the right time, and what a start.


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## Lightning Guy (Jun 28, 2004)

I believe I have seen speeds higher than that posted, but those were probably for high altitude flight. I haven't seen anything on how the plane handled but its phenomenal speed should have made it nearly untouchable. It would have been interesting had Germany's Go-229 and America's P-79 faced off in an all-flying wing battle.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 28, 2004)

if germany could scrape together enough fuel to put in it..........


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## Lightning Guy (Jun 28, 2004)

Well, that shouldn't have been too much trouble if we were setting up a straight one-on-one show.


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## Gemhorse (Jun 29, 2004)

Yeah, it was the BMW 003's that were too big, the Jumo 004's were the more reliable then, but the initial trials were very well received, take-off speed of 95 mph in just 500 yds, and 497 mph level speed was recorded - One of the jets cut-out and that one crashed, but with at least 3 other prototypes developing, they were over-run by the Allies...Interestingly, the project really started developing when German Intelligence discovered what the Northrop Corporation was doing, which got RLM behind them forming Sondercommando 9, which kept Technischen Amt out of it. One of the Horten brothers married Ernst Udet's secretary, which lent a lot of weight to their efforts, and eventual Goering heard of it and was delighted by it's uniqueness, so he was behind it too....Manufacturers estimations gave it a max speed of 607 mph at 39,000 ft, range 1180 miles, AUW 16,550 lbs normal, and 4,330 ft/min climb rate, max ceiling 52,500 ft. - US troops got to the Friedrichsroda plant first, so the technology must've gone Stateside....


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## Lightning Guy (Jun 29, 2004)

There is a Go-229 buried away in the Smithsonian somewhere. Supposedly, when Northrop started work on the B-2 Spirit, they payed a visit to the Smithsonian to study the Go-229.


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## plan_D (Jun 29, 2004)

You can see it in that pic, still the B-2 was designed off computers and flown with computers. The Go-229 wasn't and it's amazing to think of German technology, unfortunately politics get in the way of anyone understanding it.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 30, 2004)

i still can't see the picture .....................


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## plan_D (Jul 1, 2004)

A B-2 Spirit at the front, flanked by two F-117 Nighthawks. 






Go-229. 






The BMW 003 that didn't fit.  

I hope you can see them, Lanc.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 1, 2004)

yes i can see tham and i'm very inpressed with the first one, i'd imagine the 229 would have been a bit of a bugger to land............................


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jul 1, 2004)

Nah, airbrakes, strong landing gear, good low speed flight characteristics and flaps that are almost 90 degrees downward for extra drag and slowness. In other words, although it was not that great in the visibility department, it could land flying VERY slow. (Slow=not too much engine power=little smoke=sssssshhhh, quiet - great for hiding from P-47s and P-51s)


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## plan_D (Jul 2, 2004)

The visibility probably would have been better than the picture shows. After all you are right at the front.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 2, 2004)

i just thought that if you pitch your nose up on landing (this was before i realised how slowly it landed) the "tail" could hit the ground when you land......................


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## Gemhorse (Jul 5, 2004)

No, in actual fact it was one of the most redeeming features...it originally had 4 wheels for landing, then they went to the tri-cycle set-up.They put on an enlarged front wheel to assist take-off, with the projected heavy ordinance loads, 2x2,205 lb bombs or 2x 275 Imp gal. fuel tanks - As I stated on page one, it's take-off was short, 500 yds @ 95 mph, and they had a complex set-up of spoilers to give excellent control at ALL speeds...


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## HealzDevo (Nov 6, 2005)

I still question the flight characteristics being that good. If the B-2 and the US Flying Wing were the same design, why were they considered to have so many control problems if this didn't? In the end I think that is what had delayed its entry into service. The fact that it might not have been too good on control. I don't know however, of whether there are any actual flying models which have tested this however. Also I don't know of any reports by the German Pilots about their test flights, but feel free to post any you do have.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 6, 2005)

Are you talking about the B-35/ B-49 having control probelms?


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## Parmigiano (Nov 7, 2005)

.. Just a little point about engines: it was trhe other way around.

The HoIX-Go229 frame was designed for the BMW 003, then when the Jumo 004 were available with more thrust they decided to fit the latter, that was of bigger diameter and required some redesign to fit.

The program was delayed also because the prototype crashed for engine cut-off during landing approach after an apparently promising maiden flight. The other prototypes were still under construction, one of them is the one at Smithsonian.


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