# Hello from Gulf Coast Florida



## JohnWV (Jul 11, 2017)

I am new to the forum but have been modeling for a bit. My father got me
interested in this way back in the early 60s. He was a WWII vet who was with the
USAAF on Okinawa and Guam building air strips for bombers. My original interest
was anything I could get my hands on, AMT cars, Lindberg ships, Hawk aircraft,
Revell and Monogram ships and planes. I started around 1964 at 11 and built
into my 20s then took a break, got married and started a career. I got back into modeling
in the mid 80s early 90s and discovered Hasegawa, Tamiya, Italeri and Airfix. My main
interest in WWII aircraft is Naval aviation, primarily F4U Corsairs and IJN A6M2 fighters,
I've done a few Sakai Zeros and am finishing up now on Boyington's F4U-1 birdcage
Corsair. Seems like an interesting and enjoyable site.---John

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## fubar57 (Jul 11, 2017)

Welcome to the forum John, I'll be your guide here...

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## Mungo60 (Jul 12, 2017)

Welcome John, ive just joined to, but looking at the picture above i hope its not compulsory!!


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## Wurger (Jul 12, 2017)

Welcome to the site.


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## Airframes (Jul 12, 2017)

Welcome from England - or at least from Cheshire !


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## Shortround6 (Jul 12, 2017)

Mungo60 said:


> Welcome John, ive just joined to, but looking at the picture above i hope its not compulsory!!


 The hats are mandatory but not compulsory!

Or is it the reverse????

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## Gnomey (Jul 12, 2017)

Welcome.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 13, 2017)

Welcome, from Gulf Coast, Louisiana.

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## Peter Gunn (Jul 14, 2017)

Welcome from Clearwater FL, but keep an eye on the guy from Cheshire (Airframes), he's under suspicion as a disinformation specialist for the guvmint.

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## vikingBerserker (Jul 14, 2017)

Welcome aboard!

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## Lucky13 (Jul 15, 2017)

Welcome to the asylum....


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## XBe02Drvr (Jul 15, 2017)

....where the inmates rule!
Cheers,
Wes


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## Frank Andrewartha (Jul 16, 2017)

Welcome and nice hat. Much better than mine though to really work it needs an earth stake.


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## Wayne Little (Jul 17, 2017)

Welcome from down under....


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## Robert Porter (Sep 3, 2017)

Sorry for delay! But welcome aboard! The hats work better with eyeholes and more facial coverage. Plus the ground rod!


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## SANCER (Sep 3, 2017)

Hi *John*, I'd rather think that _it's better late than never_ and you've met some great colleagues from this great forum. You're going to have fun and we'll learn a lot from ourselves. 
I'm also an admirer of WWII aircraft and I have an F4U-4 in process. 
Welcome to the forum. 
I greet you from Mexico City.

Saludos compadre 
Luis Carlos
SANCER


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## Peter Gunn (Sep 6, 2017)

Hi John, welcome aboard. So, getting ready for hurricane Irma? Everyone's going nuts around here buying fuel food water and canned goods.


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## Shortround6 (Sep 6, 2017)

That or making plans to get the hell out of Dodge, latest prediction has it coming up the center of Florida but it changes every 3 hours.


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## Peter Gunn (Sep 6, 2017)

Yeah, no lie, starting to watch it closely...

Hurricane Irma Track | Hurricane and Hurricane coverage from MyFoxHurricane.com


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## Peter Gunn (Sep 6, 2017)

Tell ya what SR, meet ya in Georgia on Saturday...


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## Robert Porter (Sep 6, 2017)

Thoughts are with all! I lived in Florida during Andrew and a couple others. Buckle up, or better yet come on up and visit! Just please don't bring Irma with you she is NOT invited!


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## Marcel (Sep 6, 2017)

Saw the videos coming in from the Dutch Antilles (Sint Maarten) and this is a real bitch. Hope it'll miss you. Be safe out there!


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## Peter Gunn (Sep 6, 2017)

Thanks Marcel, I was thinking of organizing a "Hurricane Party", see if SR6 and Biff wanted to join.


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## drgondog (Sep 6, 2017)

I have a best friend in a Homestead assisted living center - who lives in Tavernier Key. If Irma hits at the same size and power as it has now, a tidal surge of 20-25 feet would nearly or completely cover the residential homes of all the Keys - and wipe any 'party hearty' folks still around.


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## Peter Gunn (Sep 6, 2017)

drgondog said:


> I have a best friend in a Homestead assisted living center - who lives in Tavernier Key. If Irma hits at the same size and power as it has now, a tidal surge of 20-25 feet would nearly or completely cover the residential homes of all the Keys - and wipe any 'party hearty' folks still around.



Brother you ain't kidding, by party, I mean hauling ass north in my SRX with whatever I can stuff in the back.

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## Shortround6 (Sep 6, 2017)

Maybe Alabama, Near Columbus GA


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## Thorlifter (Sep 6, 2017)

Welcome to the forum John


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## Njaco (Sep 9, 2017)

If you get as far as New Jersey, I'll buy ya pint!


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## XBe02Drvr (Sep 9, 2017)

Njaco said:


> If you get as far as New Jersey, I'll buy ya pint!


And if Irma's still crowding your six when you get to NJ, keep on going to VT, microbrew capital of America, and have one on us!
Cheers,
Wes

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## Robert Porter (Sep 10, 2017)

Along your way swing on by here in NC! I have the beer fridge stocked and the bar is also fully loaded!


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 11, 2017)

If you blow by SC, I'll toss a few drinks your way, stay safe!


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## Marcel (Sep 11, 2017)

And if you happen to be taken by Irma and arrive all the way over to Europe.....


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## fubar57 (Sep 11, 2017)




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## Peter Gunn (Sep 12, 2017)

Thanks guys, that one had us worried for a while. On Friday thru Sunday we were (Clearwater) squarely in the bullseye and expecting the worst, Cat 4 or 5 to hit us dead on. Took a swerve as you probably know and headed inland. Had to evacuate but didn't need to go to a shelter, but Sunday night was pretty wild weather wise.

Just got power back today but has Shortround6 shown up yet? He looked to be squarely in the path as it traversed the state and 100 plus mile per hour winds in Florida's central flats is no joke.


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## Robert Porter (Sep 12, 2017)

S
 Shortround6
was last seen over 4 days ago on the board so no not yet! Hopefully he is okay and just waiting to get power.


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## Marcel (Sep 12, 2017)

Horse isn't back as well. He is also in Florida.


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## mikewint (Sep 12, 2017)

With all the above Idiosyncratic Ostrobogulous members and the Occasionally Accidentally Horizontal Jan

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## Peter Gunn (Sep 12, 2017)

Are we really 737 ft above sea level?


Yeah, there's over 3,000,000 folks without power as of this morning in Florida so hopefully Shortround is just off the grid for a while.

I know he's only a few miles east of me, kinda right where the storm passed through, so keep him and family in your thoughts and prayers.

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## Shortround6 (Sep 13, 2017)

Thanks so much for the thoughts everyone. We bailed out and went to Alabama to my brothers. Strangely the storm followed *ME! *

Got back about midnight last night and all is good at our house. A few carports got relocated in the complex. we have power.

Hoping everyone else in Florida is OK and has no damage.

14 and 13 hour drives for what is about 7 with no traffic.

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## fubar57 (Sep 13, 2017)

Welcome back, glad everything worked out for you


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## mikewint (Sep 13, 2017)

With Geo, VERY glad you suffered little damage. Yesterday we got about a inch of rain when Irma reached Arkansas.


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## Marcel (Sep 13, 2017)

Good to hear you're okay 
S
 Shortround6


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## Robert Porter (Sep 13, 2017)

Excellent news!


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 13, 2017)

Nice to hear!


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## tomo pauk (Sep 13, 2017)

Peter Gunn said:


> Are we really 737 ft above sea level?
> 
> 
> Yeah, there's over 3,000,000 folks without power as of this morning in Florida so hopefully Shortround is just off the grid for a while.
> ...





Shortround6 said:


> Thanks so much for the thoughts everyone. We bailed out and went to Alabama to my brothers. Strangely the storm followed *ME! *
> 
> Got back about midnight last night and all is good at our house. A few carports got relocated in the complex. we have power.
> 
> ...



Cheers, people  Glad everything is back to normal as it is possible at the moment.

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## Peter Gunn (Sep 13, 2017)

Shortround6 said:


> Thanks so much for the thoughts everyone. We bailed out and went to Alabama to my brothers. Strangely the storm followed *ME! *
> 
> *SNIP*



It must be your magnetic personality... 

Seriously though, glad you're all safe and sound over there on the "mainland". I was about to organize a search party and come looking for you.

P.S. Can you send a little of that power over my way...

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## XBe02Drvr (Sep 13, 2017)

Shortround6 said:


> Strangely the storm followed *ME! *


"Gee, Mom, she followed me home, can I keep her?"
Glad to see you made it!
Cheers,
Wes


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## Shortround6 (Sep 13, 2017)

Peter Gunn said:


> P.S. Can you send a little of that power over my way...



All I got is a few spare batteries but I doubt the Post office can get them there before the power guys do their magic 

I think but can't prove that living 4-5 miles from Disney might have something to do with it.


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## drgondog (Sep 14, 2017)

Great to hear you are OK, Shortround.

I have two close friends living in Tavernier Key that dodged a bullet by leaving. Old FL hands that remembered Donna and Andrew, more recently. It will be awhile before they clean up south of mile marker 74 but that is 10 miles south of their houses. Lost their boats but both houses OK.


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## Peter Gunn (Sep 14, 2017)

Shortround6 said:


> All I got is a few spare batteries but I doubt the Post office can get them there before the power guys do their magic



No sweat... heh... power came back on yesterday around 2:00 pm.

Thanks for the thought though.


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## Torch (Sep 14, 2017)

Good to hear, my parents made it thru in St.Augustine, neighborhood trashed but their house survived


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## Robert Porter (Sep 14, 2017)

I was in Naples for Andrew. Having survived that I had decided next time to bug out and not try and ride it out again. Spent several hours trying to hold a mattress up against a sliding glass door with most of my living room furniture aiding the effort. Never found my boat, my car while not flooded had two trees on top of it, and all the screens on the house were gone. Took 3 days to get power back and 4 before motor vehicles could leave the complex. So I certainly sympathize!


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## Peter Gunn (Sep 14, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> I was in Naples for Andrew. Having survived that I had decided next time to bug out and not try and ride it out again. Spent several hours trying to hold a mattress up against a sliding glass door with most of my living room furniture aiding the effort. Never found my boat, my car while not flooded had two trees on top of it, and all the screens on the house were gone. Took 3 days to get power back and 4 before motor vehicles could leave the complex. So I certainly sympathize!



Robert - Yeah man, we were on this coast when Andrew hit and we sure said some prayers for you all over on the other coast.

I tell you true, Tampa/St. Pete./Clearwater dodged a massive bullet, had Irma not swerved inland and fallen apart, if it had hit us dead center like many of the predictions as a Cat 4+... *shiver* 

NOT something I want to think about and in fact, the wife and I are assessing where we might want to relocate to. The Tampa area is pretty safe from hurricanes in general but after this, man the mountains are looking better all the time.

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## mikewint (Sep 14, 2017)

Peter Gunn said:


> mountains are looking better all the time.


Bring your own water and lots of fire extinguishers


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## Shortround6 (Sep 14, 2017)

Florida Mountains.

Mt Dora *2208 inches
*
Still get Hurricanes but at least your out of the storm surge

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## Robert Porter (Sep 14, 2017)

When I lived in Naples, south of us was Marco Island, the highest point of which was laughingly referred to as "Marco Mountain" at 51' above sea level it was the highest elevation in all of SW Florida!

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## Peter Gunn (Sep 15, 2017)

Hah! Thanks for the suggestions, we were looking more at Northern Georgia or Tennessee, or possibly the western Carolina's.



Mike - You killjoy...


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## Shortround6 (Sep 15, 2017)

Peter Gunn said:


> Hah! Thanks for the suggestions, we were looking more at Northern Georgia or Tennessee, or possibly the western Carolina's.
> 
> 
> 
> Mike - You killjoy...



My brother lives in Auburn AL. Seems like a nice area although I have no idea of the local politics/taxes. Easy driving to Columbus GA or Birmingham/Montgomery. Good medical facilities at a reasonable distance and with several collages in the area not too much of a cultural backwater. Checking the map shows a few decent looking lakes. Lake Martin and West Point lake.

I am sure the areas you are thinking of are fine too. Only drove through on the highway a few times.

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## Robert Porter (Sep 15, 2017)

Asheville NC and the surrounding areas are fantastic!

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## Peter Gunn (Sep 15, 2017)

Funny you should mention NC, wife and I have looked very closely at it over the years.

Also SR, Alabama is also on the list, thanks for the input.

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## Marcel (Sep 15, 2017)

Still, as a Dutchman, I'm amazed at the fact that your government doesn't work on prevention. To me it seems like they are betting on helping after disaster struck. There are ways to prevent these storm surge from getting dangerous. You'll have to invest quite a bit of money, but I'm sure in the end it's much cheaper then have to evacuate whole areas every year. Not to mention the loss of lives and the damage caused by the storms. 
After the 1953 we invested millions in the Delta Works and now we are safer than you are even though we live 7 metres below sea level and you do not.


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## Shortround6 (Sep 15, 2017)

Too much passing of stuffed envelopes between interested parties. 

Unlike places in Holland there is plenty of land to build on, it just isn't in places with good views or convenient to "down town".

So "Urban Planning" or coastal planning is done with much more of an eye towards maximum return on investment to the land developers and builders than it is towards safety or future floods. 

The US also has "Barrier Islands" (essentially sand bars) that run from New Jersey to tip of Florida (over 1800km, think coast of France to the tip of Denmark) ) and large areas of the Gulf Coast with homes reaching the millions of dollars and even cities (Miami Beach FL, Galveston TX.) Which area/s gets protected _first_? 

Many homes in these areas are now built on stilts with the living area 8-10 ft above ground level to let the flooding go underneath. 

We cannot afford to keep rebuilding in the same locations and we cannot afford to "harden" the entire coastline.


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## Marcel (Sep 15, 2017)

No of course you cannot afford hardening the whole cost, but you can afford to protect the urban areas. Houston, New Orleans, Miami. There are enough people to valid a good water protection system.

I mean, in New Orleans there was really nothing done. That's amazing in such a dangerous area with so many people. After Katrina they got it done with our help. So it can be done if the proper stimulation is applied (= a proper disaster)


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## Robert Porter (Sep 15, 2017)

It is a common problem with people's perceptions when they are not from here. It is a matter of scale. For instance just the urban coastlines in Florida would require considerably, as in a factor of more than 100 fold, more work and money than all the works done in the Netherlands. Now add in the rest of the east coast and the entire budget of the EU could not even put a dent into the necessary outlay. 

Cities like Miami, New York, New Orleans have all spent many many millions of both local and federal dollars on strengthening their sea defenses. In the case of Katrina and New Orleans a combination of underestimating potential storm surge and lack of maintenance put the city at risk. But the majority of the deaths were avoidable and due more to poor disaster planning than anything else. Not to mention it is always amazing to me that people who are warned are still often guilty of not believing the risk and decide not to evacuate. 

Figure it this way, the size of the Netherlands is roughly 16,040 square miles of which roughly 26% is considered below sea level. So the urban areas in Florida alone account for twice the size of the Netherlands. Now add in the rest of the east coast, not even counting gulf coast, and only including those areas that are heavily urbanized. You end up with basically 20 times the size of all the Netherlands that requires sea defense strengthening. It is not practical nor affordable to even really begin the necessary work. Some urban areas are making progress notably New York, but others are not.


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## Robert Porter (Sep 15, 2017)

Also, the following applies to how a lot of folk think about floods.


A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”

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## Shortround6 (Sep 15, 2017)

I would also note that many times the US does not think in a "national" sense. As in people in Kansas (and their elected officials) see no reason why they should pay for (with higher taxes) engineering projects in Florida or New Jersey or Texas that are hundreds if not thousands of miles away and will make absolutely no difference to anybody in Kansas. At least until the Texas oil refineries shut down and the price of gas in Kansas goes up. 

My wife is from California and while you can't escape the earth quakes her opinion of houses destroyed by mud slides and wildfires is "Don't build/buy a house in an area prone to mudslides/wildfires." You want to live in a house on a hillside made of dirt with no bedrock because of the nice view? Don't expect me (who lives in the flat lands) to pay for government "insurance" to rebuild it the 2nd or 3rd time it slides down the hill. You want to use wooden shingles on your roof because they are aesthetically pleasing? Don't expect much sympathy when flying embers set your house on fire from 1/2 to 1 mile away. (they are getting better building/fire codes) same with clearing brush. 
Something should "click" in your brain when you move into the "forest" and they tell you to clear all trees and bushes 30-100 feet back from the house.






The US may have to "defend" harbors and ports from storm surge as a national policy. Defending beach houses and tourist resorts/condominiums (or paying to rebuild them multiple times) is not really in the national interest.

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## Robert Porter (Sep 15, 2017)

Exactly so. In the case of the Netherlands it was a national need for survival. Plus honestly the scale works. Literally everyone in the Netherlands knows someone that would be affected by floods etc. The vast majority of the US does not know anyone that would be directly affected by earthquakes, hurricanes, or floods. Think of the Central part of the country here. It it subjected to Tornadoes that few parts of the rest of the country ever see. But it rarely sees a flood and never sees a hurricane or severe earthquake. Each region of the nation has its own risks and each region continues to build in inappropriate ways and areas. Here in NC we are getting tired of using funds to rebuild beaches and homes on barrier islands time after time. 

People in Mississippi are tired of supporting people that continue building in flood plains time and time again and on and on the list goes. California as you mentioned, mud slides, and fires destroy the same areas over and over and yet people continue to build again. Honestly I have no sympathy nor desire to subsidize idiots yet I have little choice as their stupidity and government regulations require insurers to continue to offer them insurance. So that impacts everyones rates etc. 

No easy answers, but at some point we need to acknowledge that some practices are so inherently risky that they should be self insured and not cost the rest of us.


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## Marcel (Sep 16, 2017)

Hmmm yeah, didn't think of it that way. 
To me Miami Beach looks stupid without proper protection. Also building in flood buffer areas in Houston without proper protection seems crazy to me But then again I've been living beneath sea level all my life.

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## Shortround6 (Sep 16, 2017)

It is crazy, and you shouldn't have to live below sea level to realize it. 

Houston has little or no zoning and apparently just lets developers build where ever they want. Miami Beach was probably the same up until Hurricane Andrew at which point it was too late to tear things down. 
Miami beach in 1925

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## at6 (Sep 23, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> Exactly so. In the case of the Netherlands it was a national need for survival. Plus honestly the scale works. Literally everyone in the Netherlands knows someone that would be affected by floods etc. The vast majority of the US does not know anyone that would be directly affected by earthquakes, hurricanes, or floods. Think of the Central part of the country here. It it subjected to Tornadoes that few parts of the rest of the country ever see. But it rarely sees a flood and never sees a hurricane or severe earthquake. Each region of the nation has its own risks and each region continues to build in inappropriate ways and areas. Here in NC we are getting tired of using funds to rebuild beaches and homes on barrier islands time after time.
> 
> People in Mississippi are tired of supporting people that continue building in flood plains time and time again and on and on the list goes. California as you mentioned, mud slides, and fires destroy the same areas over and over and yet people continue to build again. Honestly I have no sympathy nor desire to subsidize idiots yet I have little choice as their stupidity and government regulations require insurers to continue to offer them insurance. So that impacts everyones rates etc.
> 
> No easy answers, but at some point we need to acknowledge that some practices are so inherently risky that they should be self insured and not cost the rest of us.


Robert, I live in Fresno because it is California without the fires, mud slides, floods, or Earth quakes. If the ground shakes as it does once in a great while, it is somebody Else's quake. Glad all in Florida are doing well. My sister's home just outside of Orlando was spared but she had no power for a week.

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## Robert Porter (Sep 23, 2017)

at6 said:


> Robert, I live in Fresno because it is California without the fires, mud slides, floods, or Earth quakes. If the ground shakes as it does once in a great while, it is somebody Else's quake. Glad all in Florida are doing well. My sister's home just outside of Orlando was spared but she had no power for a week.


Glad to hear your sister made it through with nothing worse than power loss! But don't be so sure you are safe from quakes!

Major Earthquake Could Threaten Fresno


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## at6 (Sep 23, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> Glad to hear your sister made it through with nothing worse than power loss! But don't be so sure you are safe from quakes!
> 
> Major Earthquake Could Threaten Fresno


Based the article, I may well be deceased before any large shakers hit Fresno. But anything can happen at any time. I hope it doesn't happen, but I will not sit and worry about it.


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## javlin (Sep 23, 2017)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Welcome, from Gulf Coast, Louisiana.


Are that close to me now Chris?and welcome John!


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## Robert Porter (Sep 23, 2017)

at6 said:


> Based the article, I may well be deceased before any large shakers hit Fresno. But anything can happen at any time. I hope it doesn't happen, but I will not sit and worry about it.


Nor should you. Stuff happens its all a part of life.


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## at6 (Sep 23, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> Nor should you. Stuff happens its all a part of life.


And sometimes we have to wipe that stuff with TEEPEE.


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## Robert Porter (Sep 24, 2017)

TP4MBH!

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