# This is what got me to love WWII aircraft



## B-17engineer (Sep 12, 2008)

Ok this is a Picture of me on a Lancaster one of two still able to fly I believe. This was about 6 years ago.....I started to love planes I didnt get into the specifics till last year...I loved flying to florida I would always want to sit near the window etc......I don't have glasses anymore


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## B-17engineer (Sep 12, 2008)

Too bad I was too young...I kinda ran through the plane....Sat in the pilots seat and stuff though pretty darn cool and It was in Reading PA


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## timshatz (Sep 12, 2008)

Nice shot dude. Beauty of an airplane.


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## Airframes (Sep 12, 2008)

Lucky boy! You realise that, certainly in the U.K., very few people get the chance to go inside a Lanc? Savour the memory, I do, having been in two and flown in one, but I was VERY lucky, as both times it was due to photographic assignments. These days,because of the arthritis, I would have difficulty climbing the access ladder, letalone negotiating the main spar!!! I presume that was the Canadian Warplane Heritage Lanc?


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## B-17engineer (Sep 12, 2008)

Yes it was....They were taking donations and basically you got in based on generousity (if thats how you spell it)


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## Wurger (Sep 12, 2008)

Really a nice pic on the Lanc.Cool.


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## pbfoot (Sep 12, 2008)

B-17engineer said:


> Yes it was....They were taking donations and basically you got in based on generousity (if thats how you spell it)


did they fly it or was it just static(on the ground)
Just to make you jealous its scheduled to fly this weekend and we get about 5 circuits over the house


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## B-17engineer (Sep 12, 2008)

Aw sweet it took of and flew around but it was just the crew  ....It was static but you could stay in as long as you wanted.....It got a bit to crowded though so after 15-20 minutes of exploring we left...It was really cool though! Suprised only one pilot flew the Lancaster though....say if the pilot was mortally wounded who would fly...the flight engineer?


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## Matt308 (Sep 12, 2008)

Welcome to the world of insurance premiums, B17. Likely their insurance would only cover a single pilot in case of catastrophe. Like the UK Lanc that only taxi's, lifts the tail and then decelerates.

You won't find an advocate in me to fly these rare birds. I believe that they should be on static display ONLY. But I don't have too many fans on this forum that would agree with me.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 12, 2008)

Ok,
My math teacher was talking about all that kind of stuff last year. Didn't get it too much 


but in WWII what would have happened


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## Matt308 (Sep 12, 2008)

B-17engineer said:


> but in WWII what would have happened



You mean a single pilot? He had all the flight and engine controls at his station. So, barring severe damage requiring the flight engineer to divert fuel between tanks, degrade hydraulic systems, electrical systems, etc. there is no reason that one person could not fly a Lanc.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 12, 2008)

Oh ok thanks


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## seesul (Sep 13, 2008)

Matt308 said:


> You mean a single pilot? He had all the flight and engine controls at his station. So, barring severe damage requiring the flight engineer to divert fuel between tanks, degrade hydraulic systems, electrical systems, etc. there is no reason that one person could not fly a Lanc.



And in case of pilot KIA or badly WIA? Bail out order?


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## B-17engineer (Sep 13, 2008)

Well what if it was a lucky shot from a fighter or flak...and the aircraft was perfectly fine...?


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## Thorlifter (Sep 13, 2008)

Cool shot of the Lanc.


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## HoHun (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi B-17,

>Ok this is a Picture of me on a Lancaster one of two still able to fly I believe. 

Hey, you've got time in the left seat of a Lancaster? Way to go! 

I'm not sure if the attached photograph is the same aircraft, but obviously it's one of the flyable ones (shot at the 2008 KLU Open Day).

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## B-17engineer (Sep 13, 2008)

Actually thats the other one still flying I believe Canada and Britain have one each Thanks though!


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## Airframes (Sep 13, 2008)

Just going back to the wounded/killed pilot, on Lancs and Halifaxes; the Flight Engineer's normally had enough basic training to fly the aircraft, at least straight and level, and some have been known (and Navigators) to bring the aircraft home and land it. If you've ever seen the movie 'The Dam Busters', it's even mentioned there, when 'Guy Gibson' tells his Flt. Engr. to get ready to pull him out of the seat if he's hit. (meaning on the run-in to the dam.) The line in the movie is based on fact, by the way, not just some movie-makers idea of adding drama.


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## Gnomey (Sep 13, 2008)

Yes Henning, yours is PA474 which is the RAF's Battle of Britain Memorial Flight's Lancaster.

Nice pic B-17, it is still some I need to do but it is hard to get inside the BBMF Lanc (or any of the other aircraft except maybe the C-47). I have been inside the cockpit of a Lanc in a museum - IWM London but other than that I have yet to be inside one of this classic warbirds.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 13, 2008)

oh thats still very cool though! Thanks for the info Airframes!


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## HoHun (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi Airframes,

>The line in the movie is based on fact, by the way, not just some movie-makers idea of adding drama.

I remember reading an account of a Lancaster crew whose pilot was incapacitated by colliding with a snipe flying at 9000 ft over Germany at night. The navigator (or flight engineer) flew them back to England, but his skills were not sufficient for a night landing, and he knew that. I believe they were discussing whether to attempt it anyway or to bail out into the dark when the pilot regained consciousness and managed to land the plane safely despite his eyes being swollen almost shut.

I believe that I must have found it in a collection of Bomber Command accounts titled "Looking Down Into Hell". Incredible which dangers the crews faced!

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## B-17engineer (Sep 13, 2008)

Wow that's a great show of Airmanship by the Pilot and Flight engineer ....If I were on any bomber I would want to be the engineer.


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## HoHun (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi Gonmey,

>Yes Henning, yours is PA474 which is the RAF's Battle of Britain Memorial Flight's Lancaster.

Thanks for the background! Looking through my airshow pictures, I noticed that the port side is coded HW*R while the starboard side is coded is coded BQ*B. I suppose this represents two different original Lancasters? Do you know if the original PA474 used one of these codes during its wartime service?

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## Gnomey (Sep 13, 2008)

No as far as I know she has never worn either code (certainly never that of the Phantom of the Ruhr). It is representing two different aircraft. Here is the full history of it: The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight


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## B-17engineer (Sep 13, 2008)

Good site Gnomey


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## HoHun (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi Gnomey,

>Here is the full history of it: The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight

Thanks a lot for the link! Interesting to see that PA474 was served as a flight-test platform, too ...

Here is the bit on codes, but I have to say that I have no idea what it means:

"After major servicing at Air Atlantique in Coventry during the winter of 2006/07, PA474 wears the markings of EE139, the 'Phantom of the Ruhr', a ton-up Lancaster that flew her first 30 ops on No 100 Squadron based at Waltham before completing a further 91 ops on No 550 Squadron at North Killingholme. She sports the letters HR-W of 'The Ton' on her port side and BQ-B of 550 on her starboard, effectively commemorating the crews of both Squadrons."

What does "ton-up" stand for? I thought HR-W were the code of "Phantom of the Ruhr" ... is "The Ton" a different name/nose-art the original HR-W had during its service life?

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## Gnomey (Sep 13, 2008)

Ton-up means that the Lanc in question has flown 100 missions ("The Ton").

One side represents the Phantom of the Ruhr the other I think commemorates the rest of the Lancaster force (especially the ton-up Lancs and the City of Lincoln - it should all be in the text).


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## HoHun (Sep 13, 2008)

Hi Gnomey,

>Ton-up means that the Lanc in question has flown 100 missions ("The Ton").

Ah, finally I understand! So "The Ton" probably also refers to the mission count on the port side next to the "Phantom" nose art. I was confused by the linguistics of the term  Is it an expression that was coined exclusively in (or, by the press, for) Bomber Command, or did see use in other contexts (sports?) as well?

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## Gnomey (Sep 13, 2008)

Certainly it is used here in the UK a lot. In sports and in general use. For example if you drive at 100mph you can refer to it as "I hit the Ton".


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## Airframes (Sep 13, 2008)

Back in 1982 to 1983, I spent two air show seasons, working with the BBMF, making an audio-visual presentation as an assignment from my then employers, Kodak Ltd. It was made as a multi-projector (35mm slides) show, with full soundtrack and commentary, that I also produced. I've still got the shots used in the show, and some of the 'spares', together with the script and the sound recording.It would be great if, when my PC is back on-line, I could post some of the pics, as there are internal shots of the aircraft, plus pics describing the servicing, care, schedules and displays. Some are air-to-air, from the BBMF Chipmunk, and the Lanc, and some good detail shots on the ground. The problem is, as they are on transparency stock, I'll need to get prints made first, then scan them and so on. Can't do it yet as I've got too many commitments at present. But, if you all think it would be interesting, I can put together some sort of package from the basic 160 final slides, which include Phantoms, which were still operational of course at Conningsby at the time. Unfortunately, the other 300 plus, and about another 1200 aircraft slides, were lost in a fire in 1992! What do you think?


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## B-17engineer (Sep 13, 2008)

Wow that's really cool airframes!


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## Gnomey (Sep 13, 2008)

Would love to see them airframes.


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## Airframes (Sep 13, 2008)

OK, leave it with me, but it'll be a while yet. Anyway, I'm bushed, so good night all (or evening, or morning!).


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## B-17engineer (Sep 13, 2008)

G'night


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## Njaco (Sep 13, 2008)

Hey B-17, was that at the Reading WWII Weekend in 2002?

I was there!!

I don't really remember the Lanc - I couldn't get past the P-40 and the Hurricane close-up. I stood there almost all day , looking, smelling, listening.....


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## B-17engineer (Sep 14, 2008)

That was it! 2002. Did you take route 78 to get there?


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## B-17engineer (Sep 14, 2008)

Well here's the best one of them all.......My dad and brothers and I meeting Paul Tibbits he ever signed his book for us which we have for $50...My mom was elsewhere


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## Njaco (Sep 14, 2008)

I think we took 76 thru Philly. One of the last trips I did with my dad. I was more concerned with him having a good time. There was too much to see (just like this year!)

Wish I saw the Lanc. I was hoping for the He 111 they said was to show up but it couldn't.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 14, 2008)

Ah because off of 78 exit 26 is the exit where my town is ......I wish the He-111 was there...one of my favorite planes


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## <simon> (Sep 15, 2008)

Great photos you've got there B-17!

A few years ago i had an experence very similar
For my fathers 50th birthday we bought him a 30min joyflight in a P-51 Mustang (Judy Pays one based at Tyabb for those familiar with it)

Anyway, after dad had his flight i jumped in the cockpit to try it out.

Having never beenin a WW2 plane before, you can imagine my amazment as the cockpt was basically the same as it was 60 yrs ago (apart from a GPS and modern radio) And yes, i did pull the trigger a few times!!

Somewhere i have a photo with me and the Mustang and another one of inside the actual cockpit. Will have to scan them and show them off... lol

Cheers
Simon


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## seesul (Sep 15, 2008)

Airframes said:


> Just going back to the wounded/killed pilot, on Lancs and Halifaxes; the Flight Engineer's normally had enough basic training to fly the aircraft, at least straight and level, and some have been known (and Navigators) to bring the aircraft home and land it. If you've ever seen the movie 'The Dam Busters', it's even mentioned there, when 'Guy Gibson' tells his Flt. Engr. to get ready to pull him out of the seat if he's hit. (meaning on the run-in to the dam.) The line in the movie is based on fact, by the way, not just some movie-makers idea of adding drama.



That makes a sence. Many thanks!


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## seesul (Sep 15, 2008)

B-17engineer said:


> Well here's the best one of them all.......My dad and brothers and I meeting Paul Tibbits he ever signed his book for us which we have for $50...My mom was elsewhere



Lucky you!


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## B-17engineer (Sep 15, 2008)

Thanks. I think if they have it......We may go again this year !


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## Njaco (Sep 15, 2008)

This weekend in Millville is the Wings and Wheels show. Tell your parents you need to rest from the camping and go to an airshow!  I'll be there.


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## seesul (Sep 16, 2008)

Njaco said:


> This weekend in Millville is the Wings and Wheels show. Tell your parents you need to rest from the camping and go to an airshow!  I'll be there.



Njaco, how far from N.Y. is it?


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## Njaco (Sep 16, 2008)

about 4 hour drive.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 16, 2008)

Oh cool! our drive was about 2 hours


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## seesul (Sep 17, 2008)

Njaco said:


> about 4 hour drive.



THX!


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## B-17engineer (Aug 10, 2009)

Njaco, I live in Hunderton right on the boarder of PA


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## Catch22 (Aug 10, 2009)

I got to do the same thing a couple weeks back B-17, I'll post some pictures today.


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## RabidAlien (Aug 10, 2009)

If any of y'all end up in the DFW area, drop us locals a line...the Cavanaugh Flight museum in Addison has a He-111 on display.


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## Johnny Signor (May 23, 2010)

I was also there in Pennsylvania for the Lancaster fly in and also took the tour through her, I wouldn't have missed that for the world, the only one hear in the US flying -WOW !!!!!! I know she came down out of Canada, and am glad I made it there from Florida, wow a long trip too !
I've heard recently that the Lanc was having problems with the propellers and grounded until they were redonem hope she's back up soon !
Man it was AWSOME to see her crank up and taxi out and especially FLY, I was right under her wingtip when she fired up, nothing like the smell of av gas in the morning !


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## skipperbob (May 25, 2010)

There was a Lancaster that used to fly in for an airshow near me for several years and I got a chance to check out the inside many times. I guess what struck me the most was the massive bomb bay - no wonder they could carry such a large bomb load! I believe the Lanc was named after a Canadian who had won the VC. There was a Hurricane that also flew with the Lanc from the same museum and if I remember correctly the Hurricane was destroyed in a hangar fire at the museum but they were able to save the Lanc!

PS Just took a look under Canadian Warplane Heritage and found that indeed their Lancaster is a memorial to PO Mynarski, an airgunner who was killed in 1944 while trying to save another crewman. The fire was in 1993 and the Hurricane was destroyed, they now have a fiberglass mockup of the original.


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## bobbysocks (May 25, 2010)

that lanc is from here...

CANADIAN WARPLANE HERITAGE

often wanted to take a trip up there to see that museum. hmmmm might be able to snooker my wife into a "niagra falls romantic get away"..."oh, whats this? an air museum?...who would have thought?"


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## BikerBabe (May 25, 2010)

The sound of this Spit and its engine at the airshow in Værløse some years ago:








Add a long interest in WW2 plus a certain charming german pilot, and I was off googling the battle of Britain, and driving my local library nuts with requests for hard-to-get-books in english about JG 26, Adolf Galland, the battle of Britain and Bf-109's.


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## Matt308 (May 25, 2010)

You are a woman after my own heart. I hear those sounds and the hair stands up on the back of my neck. Good on you, BB.


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## Njaco (May 26, 2010)

ditto!!!!!!


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