# Why are there only 2 Stukas left in tact today?



## esto (Apr 6, 2007)

Hi all. First post here, I hope I'm in the right place. My question is about the JU-87 Stuka. I'd been doing some research, and found that of the roughly 6,000 produced, there are only 2 remaining in tact (?!). One in a museum in Chicago, and another in the UK. What happend to the rest of them? Surely there must have been quite a few left after the war. Didn't anyone have the foresight to save more than 2 for historys sake?

Just wondering if anyone can give some insight to this. Thanks.


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## Jank (Apr 6, 2007)

I imagine that you could ask the same question with respect to many of the most impactful machines of war of which only a few survive. 

In that respect the post war state of surviving Stukas is quite typical.

Were there really only about 6,000 produced? I did not know that and thought the production figure would have been greater.


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## Civettone (Apr 6, 2007)

5,800 IIRC.

I think your comment is right that it's really not so unnatural for only very few being left. When it comes to Russian aircraft, it's even worse. 

Kris


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## esto (Apr 7, 2007)

Actually, the official count I got was 6,513 JU-87's produced between 1935-44.  But since I don't want to split hairs, it's easier to say a round number of 6,000


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 8, 2007)

They were scrapped. You dont think about things like that when you are trying to rebuild your country. Also the allies did not think about putting them in museums at the time either. It was about winning the war.

Here is a wreckage of a Stuka at a Museum near where I live here in Germany. Oh and that is not me in the first picture. That is some fat German dude.

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## Negative Creep (Apr 8, 2007)

I'm sure a few years after the war the last thing people would want to see was the symbol of the Blitzkreig. It's like old cars, when they are useless you scrap them, you don't really think about what they'll be worth in 60 years time. Still, I agree it is a shame that so few WW2 aircraft of any type are still intact today


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## Civettone (Apr 8, 2007)

Interesting point Adler. I always thought the Allies destroyed the German weapons after the war as the Germans weren't running their own country until the late fourties and early 50s. By then the weapons were already destroyed. 

Then again. Perhaps a few wrecks and parts did remain in German dumps and scrap yards. Those would have been destroyed because the German government wanted to. Even today, German government is reluctant to keep anything which reminds the outside world of the nazi days. If you're a Luftwaffe enthousiast in Germany, you're easily considered to be a neo-nazi. Tsss...

Kris


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## R-2800 (Apr 8, 2007)

the BOB took out alot..... and who would want an old german dive bomber right after the war anyhow?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 9, 2007)

Civettone said:


> Interesting point Adler. I always thought the Allies destroyed the German weapons after the war as the Germans weren't running their own country until the late fourties and early 50s. By then the weapons were already destroyed.
> 
> Then again. Perhaps a few wrecks and parts did remain in German dumps and scrap yards. Those would have been destroyed because the German government wanted to. Even today, German government is reluctant to keep anything which reminds the outside world of the nazi days. If you're a Luftwaffe enthousiast in Germany, you're easily considered to be a neo-nazi. Tsss...
> 
> Kris



That is not really the case. You can go all over Germany and still see Luftwaffe aircraft and WW2 architecture. Hell I live about 30 minutes from the Nazi Rally Grounds in Nurnberg. they are still intack. The main swatzika has been blown off but there are still plenty of eagles still remaining all over the grounds.

I have never had a problem being a Luftwaffe enthusiast in Germany. I even collect the original uniforms and artifacts and never had a problem.

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## Civettone (Apr 9, 2007)

But given how much stuff there was, it's surprising how much is lost. Just look at tanks: you'll find more German tanks in Russia than in Germany. I think much of the weapons in Germany today are results of finds in the last decades and of people hiding away stuff and donating or selling it afterwards. If you go to the Ardennes you'll see a whole bunch of German equipment and tanks which have been placed on display shortly after the war. Such a thing was unthinkable in Germany. Only after some years was it acceptable for the Germans to show these things. Until then they treated it as if it never existed.

And I didn't say you would have a problem with being a Luftwaffe enthusiast. You're not a German. And I'm not saying these people are being harrassed. There is just a lack of sympathy for them. And there's one thing which makes this clear: you'll find more Luftwaffe enthusiasts outside Germany than inside. Most people in Germany don't like the subject and don't want to talk about it. They will if you ask them but there's always a sense of shame. I lived in Düsseldorf for some weeks and after a few days I stopped my enquiries towards people I met. That was quite a disappointment for me.

But perhaps you have different experiences with them. Can you start a conversation with Germans about the war as easily as you can in the US?
Kris


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 9, 2007)

Civettone said:


> But given how much stuff there was, it's surprising how much is lost. Just look at tanks: you'll find more German tanks in Russia than in Germany. I think much of the weapons in Germany today are results of finds in the last decades and of people hiding away stuff and donating or selling it afterwards. If you go to the Ardennes you'll see a whole bunch of German equipment and tanks which have been placed on display shortly after the war. Such a thing was unthinkable in Germany. Only after some years was it acceptable for the Germans to show these things. Until then they treated it as if it never existed.



I think it comes down to more of the spoils of war. The allies took what they wanted and scrapped the reat.



Civettone said:


> And I didn't say you would have a problem with being a Luftwaffe enthusiast. You're not a German.



I was born and raised a German. My immediate family is German and I lived the majority of my life in Germany. Even had a German passport for a while.  



Civettone said:


> And I'm not saying these people are being harrassed. There is just a lack of sympathy for them. And there's one thing which makes this clear: you'll find more Luftwaffe enthusiasts outside Germany than inside. Most people in Germany don't like the subject and don't want to talk about it. They will if you ask them but there's always a sense of shame. I lived in Düsseldorf for some weeks and after a few days I stopped my enquiries towards people I met. That was quite a disappointment for me.
> 
> But perhaps you have different experiences with them. Can you start a conversation with Germans about the war as easily as you can in the US?
> Kris



I honestly have never experienced that either. I have never had a problem talking with people about WW2. I think it is how you go about it and how you approach the person.

Many Germans do try avoiding the subject because 90 percent of it comes from drunk GI's stationed over here in Germany who throw out the "Germany is Evil and you lost the war, so speak English to me or die attitude!"

The big misconseption is that Germans tend to try and forget about the past. I dont know a single German who acts like it never happened, what they dont like is being blamed for what happened almost 70 years ago. They were not alive back then, it was not there fault. It should not be forgotten but they should not be blamed for there countries history.


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## Civettone (Apr 9, 2007)

Sorry Adler, didn't know that. Do you feel more German than American?

In that case I fully agree that it's the way you handle it. Germans obviously saw me as a foreigner and probably felt they have to defend themselves. 

Another argument which I forget about is that it very much depends on what you talk about. It's especially anything nazi or SS which is more difficult to talk about than the pure military affairs. But I still notice you have more Luftwaffe enthusiasts outside of Germany than inside. 

Kris


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Apr 9, 2007)

That is some fat German dude. 

LOL!

Nice set piece of a wrecked stuka.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 10, 2007)

Civettone said:


> Sorry Adler, didn't know that. Do you feel more German than American?



I like to say that I am a German whos blood runs Red, White, and Blue! 

Um no I really can not tell you. I am a Mutt. I am very very proud of my German Herritage but am also very proud of my American Herritage and citizenship.

I love both countries to death.



Civettone said:


> In that case I fully agree that it's the way you handle it. Germans obviously saw me as a foreigner and probably felt they have to defend themselves.


 


Civettone said:


> Another argument which I forget about is that it very much depends on what you talk about. It's especially anything nazi or SS which is more difficult to talk about than the pure military affairs.



I am not sure if he is alive or not but I will have to find out. My step mothers Uncle was SS and he enjoyed talking about his War experiences. If he is still around (I have not seen him in about 6 years) I can get you an address if you with so ask him questions.

Not sure if the SS is something you care to talk about. He has marvelous stories though. 



Civettone said:


> But I still notice you have more Luftwaffe enthusiasts outside of Germany than inside.
> 
> Kris



I do agree with on this...


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## Rodger Dodger (Jun 23, 2009)

This is my first post. I'm damned glad I Googled "remaining stukas" and found this forum.

Well, I'm late to the dance on this thread, but have found reading the posts very interesting. I fortunately have gone flying in a WWII P-51D, which hooked me for life.

After WWII, all countries were scrapping their planes. The aluminum and other metals were more valuable than the planes, particularly since a the new generation fighter jets were beginning to dominate. 

I understand there is only one Japenese zero that can fly left. Too bad there were no wealthy plane collectors after WWII, as I understand the planes were selling for the cost of their metal


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## GrauGeist (Jun 23, 2009)

Rodger Dodger said:


> This is my first post. I'm damned glad I Googled "remaining stukas" and found this forum.


Welcome to the forums, lots of good people and always something interesting going on.



Rodger Dodger said:


> Well, I'm late to the dance on this thread, but have found reading the posts very interesting. I fortunately have gone flying in a WWII P-51D, which hooked me for life.
> 
> After WWII, all countries were scrapping their planes. The aluminum and other metals were more valuable than the planes, particularly since a the new generation fighter jets were beginning to dominate.


There were many reasons they scrapped the excess/obsolete/wrecked aircraft, but the value in metals was probably at the forefront.

Here's a recent thread that covers this discussion as well: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/what-happened-axis-planes-after-ww2-19167.html



Rodger Dodger said:


> I understand there is only one Japenese zero that can fly left. Too bad there were no wealthy plane collectors after WWII, as I understand the planes were selling for the cost of their metal


Actually, there's 6 Zeros, but only one that's 100% original, and that's the Zero at the Chino (California) Museum.


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## timshatz (Jun 23, 2009)

Stuka was also the face of the Blitzkrieg. Add in a siren that scared the living bejusus out of anyone who heard it and you have an aircraft that was more than an aircraft, it represented the conquering of Europe by the Nazis. Too us on the forum, it might be nothing more than another dive bomber with a great rep. To those in Germany after WW2, both Allied and German, it represented much more than that. 

Also, after the war, anything that could be melted down for the rebuilding of Germany was melted down. Swords into plows, that sort of thing. Same thing happened in the US to all those B17s, P40, P39s, ect. War was over and those things really had no place in the peacetime world.


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## michaelmaltby (Jun 23, 2009)

I read somewhere that despite the 1,000s that were built there were never more than a few hundred Stukas in service at any given time - very high attrition rate.

MM


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## imalko (Jun 23, 2009)

I'm not sure about exact numbers but I think that production rate of Stuka was quite low. Even at hight of production I don't think it exceeded 100 machines per month and it could be even less then that number (correct me if I'm wrong). That's one of the reasons why there were never more than a few hundred Stukas in service at any given time.


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## Amsel (Jun 23, 2009)

That makes sense, imalko, due to the peak production of arms was 1944-45 and by that time it was obselete.


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## TenGunTerror (Jun 25, 2009)

Two intact?!?! I just saw one fly the other week at the Reading World War Two Weekend! Unless it was a remake or misidentification...or did I see one of the two...?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 25, 2009)

TenGunTerror said:


> Two intact?!?! I just saw one fly the other week at the Reading World War Two Weekend! Unless it was a remake or misidentification...or did I see one of the two...?


It was a7/8 replica

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## Graeme (Jun 26, 2009)

Good story on Langhurst's replica here, including the Proctuka and 1/2 scale models used in the Battle of Britain movie...

*Axis History Forum • View topic - Ju 87 Stuka Replica*

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## GrauGeist (Jun 26, 2009)

If one is going to go to all the trouble of building a replica, why make it "almost" full scale?

Why not go all the way?

Still looks cool, though!


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 26, 2009)

lol I was thinking the exact same thing.


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## nachtjager (Jul 24, 2009)

I heard recently that a Stuka from a local museum was scrapped in Gloucestershire UK in the late 70's, criminal.


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## spectravox (May 6, 2011)

Dear Der Crew Chief,
Can you tell me where I might be able to view the Stuka that you posted photos of ? I travel to Germany soon on Classic Car business . Thanks
Spectravox


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 8, 2011)

It is located at the Sinsheim Museum. 

http://sinsheim.technik-museum.de/

And in English:

http://sinsheim.technik-museum.de/en


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## A4K (May 8, 2011)

There are two more partial Stuka remains in Berlin (at the 'Technik Museum Berlin' I think it's called - will check my info on that). 
One was donated by sir Tim Wallace, founder of New Zealand's Alpine Fighter Collection, a Ju 87B recovered from Russia. (He also donated remains of a Bf 110E, likewise recovered from Russia)

Evan


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## stona (May 8, 2011)

It's got nothing to do with the regime that produced the aircraft. Of all the tens of thousands of Bf109s or Spitfires how many still fly? What about Lancasters,Ju88s or B-17s. At the end of the war people on all sides had had enough,they were not interested in keeping these aircraft as museum pieces or memorials. People on all sides wanted to move on.
Frankly I'm amazed that there are any Ju87s surviving. There are many aircraft I'd love to see that no longer have an example that survives.

As an aside I've lived and worked in Germany,and the rest of Europe, for considerable periods over the years. I speak French well, German badly and Italian even worse. I have found that the post war generations of Germans are the most well educated and honest about the nazi period of all my fellow Europeans. They have come to terms with their history,and it is history,in a way that some other nations are still struggling to do.

Steve


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## Readie (May 9, 2011)

stona said:


> As an aside I've lived and worked in Germany,and the rest of Europe, for considerable periods over the years. I speak French well, German badly and Italian even worse. I have found that the post war generations of Germans are the most well educated and honest about the nazi period of all my fellow Europeans. They have come to terms with their history,and it is history,in a way that some other nations are still struggling to do.
> 
> Steve



An interesting point Steve,In my travels I have not shared your experiences. Europe is still licking its wounds with bitterness just under the veneer of civilisation. It takes very little for the father to son legacy to surface. Maybe that is why 'we' have fought so much historically.
In Plymouth you are lucky to get to page 3 of the local newspaper without the blitz getting a mention and how lovely Plymouth was before ' they' destroyed it all.
I have read that the Germans want bomber Harris vilified as a war criminal. I find that rather ironic.
Cheers
John


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 9, 2011)

Readie said:


> .
> I have read that the Germans want bomber Harris vilified as a war criminal. I find that rather ironic.



Only a very small minority, mostly Neo Nazi's. In fact it was the NPD (the modern Nazi Party) party that called for it, and they hardly speak for the German people. 

For the most part however, I agree with you. Europe as a whole is still feeling the effects of WW2 to this very day.


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## stona (May 9, 2011)

Readie said:


> I have read that the Germans want bomber Harris vilified as a war criminal. I find that rather ironic.
> Cheers
> John



I don't want to get too political but that is not really my experience. Most Germans with whom I have discussed this want us to be more honest about what our bombing campaign was targeting,and the methods used. Euphemisms like "de-housing workers" are a little inadequate when your father or grand father was that worker. I don't intend any criticism of the men of Bomber Command,I have nothing but the utmost respect for them and their achievements. I have never heard any of my German colleagues refer to Harris as a war criminal except in a hypothetical sense. "If you'd lost the war Harris would have been tried as a war criminal". Well,yes,he probably would have been. He is seen as the able servant responsible for enacting British bombing policy,noone in Germany is going to build a monument to him any time soon. To steal a phrase from Speer there is a "collective responsibility" for this policy.
I think that both Harris and the men of Bomber Command were treated very badly at the end of the war. There was a lot of stuff being swept under the carpet where it still lies and this is what annoys some Germans. 
On a more cheerful note it's good to see a monument to the men of Bomber Command is finally going to be built. Better late than never.

You are quite correct about the licking of wounds. I spent about five years of the 1980s living and working in France at a time when there was much agonising about France's role in various unpleasant events. At least they were confronting their past. It turns out not everyone was a heroic resistant!
Steve


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## davparlr (May 9, 2011)

Perhaps with more intensive searches, they will find some Ju-87s in some Russian lakes or rivers. They seem to find a lot of interesting artifacts that way. The war there was quite intensive with many losses and the Russian were typically uninterested in recovering WWII relics until recently, I think. Those cold rivers and lakes tend to preserve things pretty well.


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## Readie (May 10, 2011)

stona said:


> I don't want to get too political but that is not really my experience. Most Germans with whom I have discussed this want us to be more honest about what our bombing campaign was targeting,and the methods used. Euphemisms like "de-housing workers" are a little inadequate when your father or grand father was that worker. I don't intend any criticism of the men of Bomber Command,I have nothing but the utmost respect for them and their achievements. I have never heard any of my German colleagues refer to Harris as a war criminal except in a hypothetical sense. "If you'd lost the war Harris would have been tried as a war criminal". Well,yes,he probably would have been. He is seen as the able servant responsible for enacting British bombing policy,noone in Germany is going to build a monument to him any time soon. To steal a phrase from Speer there is a "collective responsibility" for this policy.
> I think that both Harris and the men of Bomber Command were treated very badly at the end of the war. There was a lot of stuff being swept under the carpet where it still lies and this is what annoys some Germans.
> On a more cheerful note it's good to see a monument to the men of Bomber Command is finally going to be built. Better late than never.
> 
> ...


 
Good point Steve, My kids secondary school makes a fair effort to teach modern history without the Eagle annual style gungho. Maybe education and the passage of time will finally draw a line under WW1 WW2.
Anyway, back to the thread....
Cheers
John


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## Nikademus (May 10, 2011)

For what it's worth, some recent literature, notably Miller's "Masters of the Air" did call a spade a spade in regards to the daylight bombing campaign. This isn't suggesting the USAAF was 'wrong' in case i'm misinterpreted. There was a war on. It was nasty. killing in any form is always nasty. Thats why wars are to be avoided. Only pointing out that yes....it was a little ridiculous for some of the top USAAF brass to try to distance themselves from what the RAF was doing at night. By late 44-early 45, they were both blind bombing. (aka.....called "radar bombing" in USAAF parlence)


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## Readie (May 10, 2011)

I think it may be a question of visibility.
The USAAF were very visible undertaking the daylight raids and the RAF bomber command were not flying as they did by night. Maybe the average German assumed the American's flew 24/7.
My Dad was captured by the German army in 1943, generally he was well treated and being fluent in German certainly helped. Anyway, he was led through a bombed out German town and the women spat at him thinking him to be an American terror bomber flier. The German army escort explained that he was an English soldier and the German women left him and the other soldiers alone.
There are tales of rough justice to downed Luftwaffe bomber aircraft in England during the blitz's.
Maybe the moral here is that you only hate / fear what you can see....or what you think you see.
Cheers
John


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## 38-Lighting (Jan 29, 2012)

The Stuka was the principle bomber in the blitz and had a siren attached used to instill fear in the citizenry of the invaded countries. As a result the Stuka were especially targeted by the allies. Downed or parked stuka bombers were destroyed out of malice and revenge.


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## michaelmaltby (Jan 29, 2012)

".... The Stuka was the principle bomber in the blitz and had a siren attached used to instill fear in the citizenry of the invaded countries. As a result the Stuka were especially targeted by the allies. Downed or parked stuka bombers were destroyed out of malice and revenge..."

_Whaaaat_ ....! Sources .....

There never were that many Stukas at any one time ... 38-Lighting ..... they tended to have a relatively short life span.

"... Downed or parked stuka bombers were destroyed out of malice and revenge...." 

By the local vandals ...  ... and occupy movement protesters.

MM


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## Edgar Brooks (Jan 29, 2012)

38-Lighting said:


> The Stuka was the principle bomber in the blitz .


The Battle of France, maybe, but, after its early use in 1940, it was never again seen over this country, so was anything but the principle bomber.


> As a result the Stuka were especially targeted by the allies. Downed or parked stuka bombers were destroyed out of malice and revenge


Apart from items taken for evaluation (by various nations) all German aircraft were earmarked for destruction, as were tanks, guns and ships; it had sod-all to do with "malice and revenge." Only a fool gives a beaten enemy a chance to take up arms, and start the whole madness all over again.


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## davebender (Jan 29, 2012)

I don't think so. Ju-87 dive bomber production was rather small. 1943 is the only year Ju-87 production exceeded 1,000 aircraft.

German aircraft production during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*1939 production.*
452. He-111 level bomber.
215. Do-17 level bomber.
134. Ju-87 dive bomber.
69. Ju-88 dive bomber.

*1940 production.*
1,816. Ju-88 dive bomber.
758. He-111 level bomber.
603. Ju-87 dive bomber.
260. Do-17 level bomber.

*1941 production.*
2,146. Ju-88 dive bomber.
950. He-111 level bomber.
500. Ju-87 dive bomber.
277. Do-217 level bomber.

Like the Tiger tank, Ju-87s were exceptionally effective giving them a combat reputation all our of proportion to their numbers.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 29, 2012)

michaelmaltby said:


> By the local vandals ...  ... and occupy movement protesters.
> 
> MM


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## Travis Roland (Sep 11, 2018)

esto said:


> Hi all. First post here, I hope I'm in the right place. My question is about the JU-87 Stuka. I'd been doing some research, and found that of the roughly 6,000 produced, there are only 2 remaining in tact (?!). One in a museum in Chicago, and another in the UK. What happend to the rest of them? Surely there must have been quite a few left after the war. Didn't anyone have the foresight to save more than 2 for historys sake?
> 
> Just wondering if anyone can give some insight to this. Thanks.


What's worse is that none of the blueprints survived. Which explains why I've been to dozens of Air Museums in the US and Europe and have yet to even see a full scale replica. A pilot in Maine made a good looking 3/4 scale replica that even flys though.


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## Travis Roland (Sep 11, 2018)

Rodger Dodger said:


> This is my first post. I'm damned glad I Googled "remaining stukas" and found this forum.
> 
> Well, I'm late to the dance on this thread, but have found reading the posts very interesting. I fortunately have gone flying in a WWII P-51D, which hooked me for life.
> 
> ...


Nobody wanted a reminder of the war after 1945 either.. too soon and close to home for most people. I don't even want to think about what was thrown away all over the world.


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## swampyankee (Sep 11, 2018)

esto said:


> Hi all. First post here, I hope I'm in the right place. My question is about the JU-87 Stuka. I'd been doing some research, and found that of the roughly 6,000 produced, there are only 2 remaining in tact (?!). One in a museum in Chicago, and another in the UK. What happend to the rest of them? Surely there must have been quite a few left after the war. Didn't anyone have the foresight to save more than 2 for historys sake?
> 
> Just wondering if anyone can give some insight to this. Thanks.




The victors don't have much interest in keeping the losers' stuff around.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 11, 2018)

Travis Roland said:


> What's worse is that none of the blueprints survived. Which explains why I've been to dozens of Air Museums in the US and Europe and have yet to even see a full scale replica. A pilot in Maine made a good looking 3/4 scale replica that even flys though.


Scale replicas are expensive to build and a Museum will most likely spend their money on restoration and preservation of existing types before they'll build a replica. This is not to say that replicas don't exist, they're just few and far between.

There is a full scale replica in New Zealand as well as one at the Frankfurt airport. There were also 4 Percival Procters converted to be lookalikes for the movie "Battle of Britain", but they weren't flown for safety reasons.

There are two intact Stukas, a Ju87R-2 (WkNmr 5954) at the Chicago Museum of Science and a Ju87G-2 (WkNmr 494083) at the RAF Museum in London.

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## nuuumannn (Sep 11, 2018)

Two views of the RAF Museum's Stuka. The museum also has one of the gun pods that were carried under its wing, just the one.





Stuka survivor i




Stuka survivor ii

The reproduction in New Zealand is at the Aviation Heritage Centre at Omaka, Blenheim, with decorative work done by Weta Workshop Ltd, film director Peter Jackson's special effects organisation. The Stuka was built by a local guy and quite a bit of effort has gone into getting it to look accurate. It's full size.




Stuka Repro i




Stuka repro ii

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## nuuumannn (Sep 11, 2018)

GrauGeist said:


> There were also 4 Percival Proctors converted to be lookalikes for the movie "Battle of Britain", but they weren't flown for safety reasons.



The intent was that the Stuka now at the RAF Museum was going to be restored to flying condition, but it was going to cost more than what the budget allowed, so the Proctors were modified. If you look closely during the scenes in the film, the Stuka models are late model ones, rather than resembling the Ju 87B variants that were in use in 1940. This is because the radio control miniatures were based on the surviving one they were restoring. They were quite big and there is one or two surviving in British museums.

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## GrauGeist (Sep 11, 2018)

Those are fantastic photos, Grant!

Especially the Omaka Stuka - thanks for sharing them!


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## nuuumannn (Sep 12, 2018)

No worries Dave, the Omaka one is a bit of a bugger to photograph.

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## GrauGeist (Sep 12, 2018)

Well, you did a hell of a job!

She's fantastic for a repro, too.


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## nuuumannn (Sep 12, 2018)

Yeah, it looks great. It's made of wood, but clad with ali and has a Saab 340 propeller! It's worn a few different colour schemes throughout its life. Here it is as an Italian Picchiatello.




AHC Gate Guards Picchiatello

And here it is in a summer 1940 scheme that Hans Ulrich Rudel apparently flew.




AHC Gate Guards Luftwaffe Stuka

Note also that the Hurricane in the background has also changed markings.

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## GrauGeist (Sep 12, 2018)

Yeah...not sure if I'm falling for the VVS scheme on the Hurri!


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## Airframes (Sep 12, 2018)

Here's a pic of one of the 'Proctukas'. heavily modified Percival Proctor, intended for use in the BoB movie, but ultimately not used.(from my files, origin unknown)

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## Beau Brandt (Sep 13, 2018)

esto said:


> Hi all. First post here, I hope I'm in the right place. My question is about the JU-87 Stuka. I'd been doing some research, and found that of the roughly 6,000 produced, there are only 2 remaining in tact (?!). One in a museum in Chicago, and another in the UK. What happend to the rest of them? Surely there must have been quite a few left after the war. Didn't anyone have the foresight to save more than 2 for historys sake?
> 
> Just wondering if anyone can give some insight to this. Thanks.



I could also be, that by 1942 the Stuka was essentially obsolete after the Battle of Britain and any airworthy aircraft were relegated to the Russian front, used-up, destroyed and/or discarded.


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## Arrawin (Sep 13, 2018)

I had no idea there were so few Stuka's left in flying condition or even just intact. I was hoping our local aero museum might get one but that is out of the question. I had a control line model of a stuka when I was a kid that I just loved to death, it even had a bomb it could drop. The one time I tried it I smacked into the ground, so I quickly knew it was a lot harder to do than it looked. Breaks my heart to see that one Stuka is such poor condition on display. No WW2 plane deserves that.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 13, 2018)

The Stukas continued in Europe after the Battle of Britain.
Serving with StG3, they inflicted serious damage against the Allies in Italy as well as the British in the Dodecanese Campaign during October 1943.
They also were a vital part of the defense of Berlin, operating during the day and night.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 13, 2018)

Arrawin said:


> I had no idea there were so few Stuka's left in flying condition or even just intact. I was hoping our local aero museum might get one but that is out of the question. I had a control line model of a stuka when I was a kid that I just loved to death, it even had a bomb it could drop. The one time I tried it I smacked into the ground, so I quickly knew it was a lot harder to do than it looked. Breaks my heart to see that one Stuka is such poor condition on display. No WW2 plane deserves that.



There are no Ju 87’s that are airworthy. The two survivors are static display only.


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## nuuumannn (Sep 14, 2018)

GrauGeist said:


> Yeah...not sure if I'm falling for the VVS scheme on the Hurri!



Yep, it looked the part though. Both schemes the Hurri was in were aircraft flown by Kiwis. The squadron leader of 151 Wing, sent to Russia with its Hurricanes was a New Zealander, the excruciatingly English-public-schoolboy named Henry Neville Gynes Ramsbottom-Isherwood. The previous marking and as it is depicted today is in the markings of local Marlborough lad Jim Hayter.

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## billrunnels (Sep 14, 2018)

One of the reasons you see more WWII aircraft in the USA today is they found use for them following end of the war. Example the-B-17 was used as a tanker fighting forest fires and it along with the P-51 received so much publicity. The p-51 also became a favorite private aircraft of which many are in the air today. The Stearman is a favorite today. They were available in numbers and reasonable to buy following the war. While in Bombardier School 1944 there were 10 to 12 Stearman tailed to a fence at the Midland, Texas Base Airport and you could take your pick for $500.00

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## swampyankee (Sep 14, 2018)

Well, 73 years after WWII ended, it's getting increasingly difficult to keep any aircraft of the era flying.

How many P-43s, OS2Us, Blenheims, or D3As are around?


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## Arrawin (Sep 15, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> One of the reasons you see more WWII aircraft in the USA today is they found use for them following end of the war. Example the-B-17 was used as a tanker fighting forest fires and it along with the P-51 received so much publicity. The p-51 also became a favorite private aircraft of which many are in the air today. The Stearman is a favorite today. They were available in numbers and reasonable to buy following the war. While in Bombardier School 1944 there were 10 to 12 Stearman tailed to a fence at the Midland, Texas Base Airport and you could take your pick for $500.00



I think quite a few of the WW2 fighters survived because they found they made pretty good pylon racers with some modifications.

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## GrauGeist (Sep 15, 2018)

A good number of WWII aircraft survive today, because smaller nations purchesed the surplus or surrendered aircraft as the war come to a close. As newer hand-me-downs became available from primary nations, many of these WWII aircraft were placed in reserve or stored.

The aircraft that weren't practical, obsolete or difficult to get parts for, were scrapped.

Several of the world's rarest WWII aircraft survive today, because they came from these smaller nations' former inventory.

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## ole_a_hoel (Sep 18, 2018)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> They were scrapped. You dont think about things like that when you are trying to rebuild your country. Also the allies did not think about putting them in museums at the time either. It was about winning the war.
> 
> Here is a wreckage of a Stuka at a Museum near where I live here in Germany. Oh and that is not me in the first picture. That is some fat German dude.




Which museum is that? It looks nice.

Ole


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## parsifal (Sep 18, 2018)

why so few stukas? 


Answer

They were all shot down.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 18, 2018)

ole_a_hoel said:


> Which museum is that? It looks nice.
> 
> Ole



Sinsheim


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## imalko (Nov 10, 2018)

One Stuka is being resrored to flying condition at Flying Heritage & Combat Armor Museum as it was revealed today. Awsome news.

FHCAM JU-87R-4 Stuka revealed - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

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## Airframes (Nov 10, 2018)

Good news - and good to see you back Igor.

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## Crimea_River (Nov 10, 2018)

This is great news indeed. And they're plopping an actual Jumo 211 into it too. I hope that Paul Allen's passing doesn't have a negative impact on future projects like this.

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## nuuumannn (Nov 11, 2018)

> How many P-43s, OS2Us, Blenheims, or D3As are around?



There's only one actual complete Bristol built Blenheim left in the world. It's in Finland. All the others are Canadian imposters. This is a Bolingbroke built by Fairchild in Quebec retrofitted with a Blenheim Mk.I nose.




0707 Duxford Blenheim I

This is the only Bolingbroke in Britain restored as a Boli and not converted into a Blenheim. There were minor changes between the two to suit Canadian needs, but essentially they were the same airframe.




1807 National Museum of Flight East Fortune Bolingbroke

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## nuuumannn (Nov 11, 2018)

Another answer is that technically, the Stuka is not a very interesting airframe. If you look at the surviving German/Axis types in museums around the world, there are more Me 262s, Me 163s, V 1s and 2s, He 162s and that sort of thing than there are He 111s, Ju 87s, Ju 88s and Bf 110s. Because the advanced German technology at the end of the war was ripe for exploitation, so examples of these machines were kept for inspiration. A little acknowledged fact is that the Walther rocket motors became the foundation for the post-war British rocketry programme; virtually all of the families of British rocket motors were powered by T-stoff, hydrogen peroxide. I've seen early prototype British motors built by the Rocket Propulsion Establishment at Westcott with fuel lines stamped with 'T-stoff', instead of 'HTP', or High Test Peroxide.

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## GrauGeist (Nov 12, 2018)

nuuumannn said:


> Because the advanced German technology at the end of the war was ripe for exploitation, so examples of these machines were kept for inspiration.


Agreed.
Another example: the Me P.1101 became the Bell X-5, which in turn influenced later generations of aircraft.

The early German aircraft were novel at best by war's end and were of more value as desperately needed scrap metal than anything.


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## pinehilljoe (Nov 12, 2018)

Production ended in 1944. I would guess that the the old design didn't have a lot of interest for the Allies for test purposes. Those left were probably chopped up after the War


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## Vahe Demirjian (Jan 20, 2020)

There is a Ju 87R-4 (Werk Nr. _6234_) under restoration right now (more info available at Junkers Ju 87 - Wikipedia).


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## Crimea_River (Jan 20, 2020)

Vahe Demirjian said:


> There is a Ju 87R-4 (Werk Nr. _6234_) under restoration right now (more info available at Junkers Ju 87 - Wikipedia).



Same one as in post #67.

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## GrauGeist (Jan 20, 2020)

Captain Obvious strikes again...

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## Wurger (Jan 20, 2020)



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## Crimea_River (Jan 20, 2020)

At least the original post wasn't from 2005......

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## GrauGeist (Jan 20, 2020)




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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 20, 2020)

Crimea_River said:


> At least the original post wasn't from 2005......



Maybe I got thru to him. Baby steps...

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## Admiral Beez (Jan 20, 2020)

imalko said:


> One Stuka is being resrored to flying condition at Flying Heritage & Combat Armor Museum as it was revealed today. Awsome news.
> 
> FHCAM JU-87R-4 Stuka revealed - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums
> 
> View attachment 516778


More pics of same.

FHCAM - Junkers Ju 87 R-4 Stuka

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