# 'Clipped' F-8 Crusader



## Graeme (Jun 20, 2007)

In an aged (March 1961) issue of 'Flying Review' there is a small grainy photo of an F-8 Crusader landing (according to the caption) with its *wings folded* at Capodidchino. The photo was taken by a German reader "who was on the spot with his camera". The caption points out that this particular Crusader successfully took off and landed with its wings in the folded position. 
The 'full' story was told in an earlier edition, January 1961, which of course I have never seen.
Can anyone provide more details? Is it really possible?
The magazine occasionally played jokes on readers but it wasn't April yet.


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## Glider (Jun 20, 2007)

I had heard of this but have no details.


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## Matt308 (Jun 23, 2007)

new one to me. Landed on a carrier? I doubt it. Certainly a land feat.

I didn't realize that the wing locks would sustain the flight lateral flight loads associated with the folded position. That would be impressive. And the landing speed must have been phenomenal if true.


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## syscom3 (Jun 23, 2007)

I dont think the wings would have generated the lift required for it to take off.

And the drag associated with the wings up would be huge. 

Not to mention they would act like gigantic rudders and make the plane impossible to maneuver.

I'd say its "probabilty zero".


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## otftch (Jun 23, 2007)

The ailerons on a Crusader are inbord of the wing fold ,therefore all control surfaces are active even with the wings folded..This type of flight is not adviasble but has happened more than once.
Another interesting first for the Crusader is it was the first aircraft to shoot itself down.The prototype F8U-3 injested spent shell casings when it fired its cannons which led to engine failure and crash."Crusader,last of the gunfighters."
ed


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## 102first_hussars (Jun 23, 2007)

I dont know about this, sounds like a doctored photo to me


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## Graeme (Jun 23, 2007)

The poor quality photo.




Shot at 2007-06-23

At an airfield somewhere near Naples.


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## syscom3 (Jun 23, 2007)

Seeing is believing.


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## DOUGRD (Sep 19, 2007)

otftch said:


> The ailerons on a Crusader are inbord of the wing fold ,therefore all control surfaces are active even with the wings folded..This type of flight is not adviasble but has happened more than once.
> Another interesting first for the Crusader is it was the first aircraft to shoot itself down.The prototype F8U-3 injested spent shell casings when it fired its cannons which led to engine failure and crash."Crusader,last of the gunfighters." ed



I agree! During my "extended" career in the USN I heard of this happening at least twice.


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## Matt308 (Sep 20, 2007)

Wow.

Reminds me of the story of the pilot who snapped the wings off the F-8. Wish I could find it.


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## timshatz (Sep 20, 2007)

otftch said:


> The prototype F8U-3 injested spent shell casings when it fired its cannons which led to engine failure and crash
> ed



I thought that honor went to a Spanish Starfighter or Hun that fired it's 20MM and then flew into them a short time later. 

Not sure which of the aircraft it was, but I am sure it was a Spanish bird going very fast.


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## ccheese (Sep 20, 2007)

Years and years ago I heard this also happened with a Corsair. Took off
with the wings folded, but crashed trying to land. Don't know about the
accuracy of the story, tho.

Charles


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## Matt308 (Sep 20, 2007)

Ahh. Corsair II. One of my most favorite attack airplanes.


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## ccheese (Sep 20, 2007)

Matt:

I was talking about the F4U.....

Charles


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## Aggie08 (Sep 21, 2007)

Running into the 20mm shells? Dang! Love those Starfighters and their rebellious high speeds without swept wings.


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## Matt308 (Sep 21, 2007)

ccheese said:


> Matt:
> 
> I was talking about the F4U.....
> 
> Charles



 That's possible?!?!


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## Jank (Nov 5, 2007)

Yes, it is true.

From Wikipedia:

However, the aircraft did possess some amazing capabilities, as proven when several hapless Crusader pilots took off from Da Nang with the wings folded. The Crusader was capable of flying in this state, though the pilot would be required to lose weight by ejecting stores and fuel, and then return to the carrier.


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## Matt308 (Nov 6, 2007)

Jank said:


> The Crusader was capable of flying in this state, though the pilot would be required to lose weight ...



I bet. Vacating your bowels is what I would imagine.


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## SABURO (Nov 6, 2007)

I'm sure you love the story of Wings-Folded Club  , + a bonus story (see the last two pages)
from this wonderful book "Mig Master",
Cheers,

Olivier


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## Matt308 (Nov 6, 2007)

Christ that hurts my eyes. I've either become a Liliputian or that post was WAY to big.


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## SABURO (Nov 6, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Christ that hurts my eyes. I've either become a Liliputian or that post was WAY to big.



Actually I was amazed to ( What a Scanner  ) don't tell me it's too small now !

Cheers,

Olivier


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## renrich (Nov 6, 2007)

Interesting story about an F8 that had a ghost in it. This F8, NM111 had some slight longitudinal control problems. It seems that sometimes the stick froze on takeoff momentarily. The maintenance people checked it out and could find nothing wrong. The next day the AC was flown with an afterburner takeoff from the field and the pilot pulled the nose up into a max performance climb. As he approached the optimum climb angle he eased the back pressure or tried to as the stick would not move. The nose continued to move up toward the vertical. Using the notion that no flight attitude is unusual for a fighter pilot, he rolled the plane inverted and pulled the nose to the horizon. The stick moved great in that direction. Once he was level he rolled back upright. Everything worked OK after that. He reported the problem on landing and after an exhaustive investigation it was found that inside a leather sleeve enclosing the push rod linkages a bolt had found it's way inside and under the right G load it would jam the linkage.


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## magnocain (Nov 9, 2007)

i read once that when a f8 pilot realized that he was 'wingless', he simply rolled slightly left and right, and that snaped his wings into place!


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## Matt308 (Nov 11, 2007)

Well snaping your wing into place is quite a feat.


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## magnocain (Nov 12, 2007)

They said it was not the recommended cores of action


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## Graeme (Nov 12, 2007)

The Supermarine Attacker had small folding wing tips.


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## DCM (Sep 5, 2008)

otftch said:


> The ailerons on a Crusader are inbord of the wing fold ,therefore all control surfaces are active even with the wings folded..This type of flight is not adviasble but has happened more than once.
> Another interesting first for the Crusader is it was the first aircraft to shoot itself down.The prototype F8U-3 injested spent shell casings when it fired its cannons which led to engine failure and crash."Crusader,last of the gunfighters."
> ed




Folded wing flights happen 7 times......also the F8U-3 did not have guns/cannons it was a missle carrying plane so it did not shoot itself down.
The Grumman F-11 Tiger did though.

David Hudson
dc 1


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## Captain Dunsel (Sep 5, 2008)

I don't recall the aircraft type, but I believe it was one of the 1950's era USN jets that shot itself down. IIRC, the pilot fired the cannon in a shallow climb, then nosed down and hit the power. Shortly afterwards, he ran into the descending shells....

CD


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## SoD Stitch (Sep 5, 2008)

ccheese said:


> Years and years ago I heard this also happened with a Corsair. Took off
> with the wings folded, but crashed trying to land. Don't know about the
> accuracy of the story, tho.
> 
> Charles



I know that the AD-1 Skyraider has done that a few times, also, but AFAIK one never crashed trying to land.


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## renrich (Sep 6, 2008)

I am sure that WW1 AC shot themselves down often before synchronising gear was perfected and after when it failed.


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## SoD Stitch (Sep 6, 2008)

renrich said:


> I am sure that WW1 AC shot themselves down often before synchronising gear was perfected and after when it failed.



Not necessarily; before synchronising gear was perfected, they actually bolted steel plates on to the prop where the bullets would strike. This deflected the bullets until, after a few missions, they got too shot up, and they'd have to be replaced. IIRC, Anthony Fokker was actually the one who came up with the first synchronising gear for WWI fighters (there's a thread on that in here somewhere); the Allies weren't able to duplicate it until a German aircraft with the synchronising gear installed crashed behind enemy lines.


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## renrich (Sep 7, 2008)

There were times in WW1 that firing through the prop arc was tried without the metal deflector wedges and that often resulted in an accident. I am aware that Fokker devised the Syn gear but that sometimes failed(as all mechanical devices sometimes do) and then AC shot themselves down.


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## Flyboy2 (Sep 7, 2008)

Its my understanding that the first primitive interupter gear was wedges of steel on the inside of the propeller. Those were still used in World War II? The first French pilot to use them shot of his own propeller because the constant impact weakened the propeller and it flew apart.


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## renrich (Sep 8, 2008)

I am sorry but typed in WW2 instead of WW1. My mistake. Obviously interrupter gear was used in WW2.


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## Flyboy2 (Sep 8, 2008)

Ok gotcha. Was a little confused there


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