# JAS 39 Gripen



## Lucky13 (May 6, 2009)

I just read that the new JAS fighters coming has "supercrusie". 8) 
And that on 23 April, the future arrived, they unveiled the first of the next generation of combat fighters, the Gripen Demonstrator (Demo) aircraft. The Gripen Demo includes new features such as the General Electric F414G Turbofan engine with increased thrust and super cruise capability, a new Saab/Thales active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar, increased fuel capacity for extended range, improved landing gear, increased weapons and stores capabilities, advanced communications and defensive systems and world-beating avionics structures. Investment in the Demo programme is being made by Saab, its international industrial partners including General Electric, Thales, Rockwell-Collins and Honeywell, as well as the Norwegian and Swedish governments....

Also, I think that Thailand has bough the Gripen as well now....


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## seesul (May 6, 2009)

My country use them as well.
Since 2 years ago if I am not wrong...


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## tomo pauk (May 6, 2009)

It was about the time.

But, as far as sales are the subject, the major role is played by politics.


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## Lucky13 (May 6, 2009)

D*mn straight Tomo, politics more than money...
True Seesul, think that a colleague on my old work, has been down to your country for JAS....


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## seesul (May 6, 2009)

8) the world is small...
Btw Jan, tomorrow 8:15 pm, Sweden vs Czech Republic, 1/4final in Icehockey World Championship...are you gonna watch it?
I just made a reservation in one pub here


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## Waynos (May 6, 2009)

You only have to look at the feeble excuses Norway put out for dismissing the Gripen and selecting the F-35 for proof of that.


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## Matt308 (May 6, 2009)

In what way, Waynos. You have insight into Norwegian defense/offense operations and why F-35 comes up short of Gripen?

Let's remember that Super Gripen is still in prototype stage too. More advanced than F-35 given basic airframe, but still in prototype stage. Super Gripen is more akin to F-18E/F vice F-18C/D. Almost a completely different animal.


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## Lucky13 (May 6, 2009)

seesul said:


> 8) the world is small...
> Btw Jan, tomorrow 8:15 pm, Sweden vs Czech Republic, 1/4final in Icehockey World Championship...are you gonna watch it?
> I just made a reservation in one pub here


Might actually do that Seesul. May the best team win! 



Waynos said:


> You only have to look at the feeble excuses Norway put out for dismissing the Gripen and selecting the F-35 for proof of that.


Well, Norway is a NATO country, so I'm not surprised. On the other hand I am, F-35 must be a few bob more expensive the Gripen...



Matt308 said:


> In what way, Waynos. You have insight into Norwegian defense/offense operations and why F-35 comes up short of Gripen?
> 
> Let's remember that Super Gripen is still in prototype stage too. More advanced than F-35 given basic airframe, but still in prototype stage. Super Gripen is more akin to F-18E/F vice F-18C/D. Almost a completely different animal.


"Super Gripen"? Are you talking about the JAS 39NG which I think they call it here? They flew the new one with super cruise earlier this year I read...managed to do cruise at Mach 1.2 then and we're still counting...

True Matt!


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## Waynos (May 6, 2009)

Matt, its not that the F-35 comes up short against it. I don't even think that the model involved, the F-35A, does come up short. It was the stupid way in which the Norwegian Govt tried to explain their choice that the political angle was made so painfully obvious.

This was a competition that Eurofighter declined to take part in as they believed the decision to buy the F-35 had already been taken and the process was all smoke and mirrors. Norway's later pronouncement seems to justify that position.

Norway states that the F-35 is technologically more advanced and more capable than the Gripen NG. No argument there and if that was the basis for the choice then fine. 

However, they then went on to say, in short, that the Gripen NG will not meet any of their air forces requirements, will be cannon fodder for the Pak Fa where the F-35 will not, will crash twice as often as the F-35 and will cost 8 billion dollars more to acquire.

Due to their geographical location the needs of the Norwegian AF are virtually identical to those of the Swedish AF, for whom the Gripen was designed and for whom it serves superbly. A ridiculous comment

How do they know about the Pak Fa and its abilities when it is still on the drawing board at Sukhoi? Maybe all our fighters will be cannon fodder, maybe none of them will. We cannot know at this time. Another ridiculous comment.

How can they possibly say what the accident rate will be for future aircraft when neither are even fully developed yet? Another ridiculous comment

How do they suppose the F-35, with all its stealth features and exotic airframe coatings and three-model development programme can possibly be cheaper to acquire than the Gripen? They even quoted a price that was less than half the current (and certain to rise) cost to the US and UK forces and also quoted to Australia. Another ridiculous comment, all of which makes the Norwegian govt look very silly indeed.


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## vikingBerserker (May 6, 2009)

Wow, was not aware that Thailand was buying some. That's impressive of them.


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## Lucky13 (May 6, 2009)




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## Matt308 (May 6, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Matt, its not that the F-35 comes up short against it. I don't even think that the model involved, the F-35A, does come up short. It was the stupid way in which the Norwegian Govt tried to explain their choice that the political angle was made so painfully obvious.
> 
> .



That is exactly why I worded my question the way I did. There is nothing wrong with saying the Gripen fit the mission for much less krone. I'm good with that. I was just wondering what you had heard.

With regard to the price, that is still very much up in the air depending upon both US forces and foreign purchases. Surely, based upon historical precedence it will not be what they have originally claimed. Nor likely with the 'Super Gripen' NG.


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## Waynos (May 6, 2009)

Quite so. The trouble was they didn't even speculate that the economy of scale 'may' make the F-35 cheaper, which you could say is a possibility, but the price they quoted (which escapes me for now) was clearly just pulled out of a hat and bore no relation to anything published by anyone involved with the program, which has to be the stupidest thing ever.

If they just said that the F-35 is going to be more advanced and capable but more expensive, but its worth the price to have the best, I don't think anyone could have argued with that logic. The protestors however may well have come back with 'but the Gripen is much cheaper and good enough for our needs' which it certainly is and maybe they tried to head off this argument but just ended up looking foolish. Not to mention they have severely pissed off their neighbour


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## Matt308 (May 6, 2009)

But being flush with all that North Sea oil, what do the Norwegians care.


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## Lucky13 (May 7, 2009)

It's bl**dy funny how expensive things are in Norway, WITH their oil AND gas....many drive to Sweden to shop and fill the tank on their cars, so one wonders.


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## Matt308 (May 8, 2009)

Everything is socialized. Healthcare, housing, unemployment, food vouchers, etc. Or so my wife's relatives tell me.


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## Gnomey (May 8, 2009)

That and tax. Alcohol is heavily taxed and only really available from special shops pretty much run by the government.

They also earn more so that offsets the costs a little bit. At least that I what I think was the gist of it from the times I have been there and from my dad who worked there for 2 years.


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## Marcel (May 8, 2009)

Dutch are now considering buying the Grippen. Up 'till now they have been focussing on the F-35, but now they are considering the money and what they need. Decision is suspended 'till 2010.


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