# General Patton



## billrunnels (Dec 4, 2017)

Here is a bit of history not many know about and you won't find in books. It was shared by South Dakota Senator, Chan Gurney, who served on the Armed Forces Committee during WWII. The General Patton slapping incident, widely publicized, in 1943 of a hospitalized soldier was being discussed by the Armed Forces Committee. They adjourned without reaching a decision until the next day. On returning to his office the Senator found a parcel of mail from a West Point graduate whose graduation picture was on his office mantle. The parcel contained a letter and personal picture. This seedy picture was was vastly different from the graduation photo. This Major was on Patton's Staff and witnessed the slapping. Senator Gurney took the letter and two pictures to the Committee meeting the next day. He shared parts of the letter content and passed around the two photos for all to see. After a short discussion the Committee decided the pressure and conditions in which Patton was subjected in the Sicily Campaign had influenced his actions. His career was put on hold until he took charge of the 3rd Army later in the war. Now you know!

P.S. In my opinion General Patton was the very best America had to offer. His unorthodox style of Leadership was effective. Near the end of the war the third Army was moving so fast our crew would bet how far they would advance from the time we crossed the lines on the way to the target and again on the way back.

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## pbehn (Dec 4, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> Here is a bit of history not many know about and you won't find in books. It was shared by South Dakota Senator, Chan Gurney, who served on the Armed Forces Committee during WWII. The General Patton slapping incident, widely publicized, in 1943 of a hospitalized soldier was being discussed by the Armed Forces Committee. They adjourned without reaching a decision until the next day. On returning to his office the Senator found a parcel of mail from a West Point graduate whose graduation picture was on his office mantle. The parcel contained a letter and personal picture. This seedy picture was was vastly different from the graduation photo. This Major was on Patton's Staff and witnessed the slapping. Senator Gurney took the letter and two pictures to the Committee meeting the next day. He shared parts of the letter content and passed around the two photos for all to see. After a short discussion the Committee decided the pressure and conditions in which Patton was subjected in the Sicily Campaign had an influenced his actions. His career was put on hold until he took charge of the 3rd Army later in the war. Now you know!


Great post Bill. I have seen a documentary on Patton which included a small piece on this incident. As a UK citizen I make no comment about general Patton apart from one that a Dutch guy said to me while working in Russia "at times we need men like him". There is a popular fashion for pointing out the personality faults and eccentricities of Winston Churchill and even his ancestors, as if he was a retired journalist not a man leading a country at war. Only those who have done it know what the pressure of command means.

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## billrunnels (Dec 4, 2017)

pbehn said:


> Great post Bill. I have seen a documentary on Patton which included a small piece on this incident. As a UK citizen I make no comment about general Patton apart from one that a Dutch guy said to me while working in Russia "at times we need men like him". There is a popular fashion for pointing out the personality faults and eccentricities of Winston Churchill and even his ancestors, as if he was a retired journalist not a man leading a country at war. Only those who have done it know what the pressure of command means.


The pressure of command has to be difficult for all who assume the assignment.

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## pbehn (Dec 4, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> The pressure of command has to be difficult for all who assume the assignment.


I read Churchills "History of the second world war" which was written before any obvious mention of the Enigma code breaking could be fully disclosed. It is quite clear now that allied lives were sacrificed purely so that the enemy didn't know we were breaking their codes. As far as Winston is concerned I will forgive him drinking a bit too much and being at times impolite in high society, day by day people like him and Patton had thousands of lives in their hands and the question was never no loss of life just a minimising of it.


As an aside, the first movie my dad took me to was "Lust for Glory" which was a sort of documentary about Patton. to be honest at the age of ten I was so shocked at hearing "No [email protected] ever won a war etc" I couldn't remember much else from the movie.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-0dTpzNzwo_

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## billrunnels (Dec 4, 2017)

pbehn said:


> I read Churchills "History of the second world war" which was written before any obvious mention of the Enigma code breaking could be fully disclosed. It is quite clear now that allied lives were sacrificed purely so that the enemy didn't know we were breaking their codes. As far as Winston is concerned I will forgive him drinking a bit too much and being at times impolite in high society, day by day people like him and Patton had thousands of lives in their hands and the question was never no loss of life just a minimising of it.
> 
> 
> As an aside, the first movie my dad took me to was "Lust for Glory" which was a sort of documentary about Patton. to be honest at the age of ten I was so shocked at hearing "No [email protected] ever won a war etc" I couldn't remember much else from the movie.
> ...


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## Graeme (Dec 4, 2017)

Very interesting Bill.



pbehn said:


> There is a popular fashion for pointing out the personality faults and eccentricities of Winston Churchill and even his ancestors, as if he was a retired journalist not a man leading a country at war. Only those who have done it know what the pressure of command means.



Hi Pbehn.
Believe it or not - I only just read this a few hours ago.

Churchill....

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## billrunnels (Dec 4, 2017)

Graeme said:


> Very interesting Bill.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I always figured that Churchill was a "can do" type individual in a very difficult period of time.


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## at6 (Dec 5, 2017)

I watched the movie where George C Scott played Patton. When I finally saw footage of Patton speaking, I began to wish that he had Scott's voice. Such a brilliant leader with such a "malnourished" voice.

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## billrunnels (Dec 5, 2017)

at6 said:


> I watched the movie where George C Scott played Patton. When I finally saw footage of Patton speaking, I began to wish that he had Scott's voice. Such a brilliant leader with such a "malnourished" voice.


Interesting. I have never heard his voice.


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## at6 (Dec 5, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> Interesting. I have never heard his voice.


I was watching something on the Newsmax channel where on weekends they show a number of documentaries on WW II. One the them had footage where Patton was speaking and I was so disappointed by his voice because looking at him made you expect something more powerful and inspiring.


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## billrunnels (Dec 5, 2017)

at6 said:


> I was watching something on the Newsmax channel where on weekends they show a number of documentaries on WW II. One the them had footage where Patton was speaking and I was so disappointed by his voice because looking at him made you expect something more powerful and inspiring.


You would think that would be the case. Guess you can't judge a book by it's cover.

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## airminded88 (Dec 5, 2017)

Unorthodox figures of leadership like Patton, Churchill and others have earned their spot in history and inmortality no matter how much they are demonized, their deeds deliberately diminished by those who harbor hate towards the free world in their hearts.
Bill, during those missions with clear weather, where the front lines visible from the altitude you flew?

Cheers


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## Tim Moore (Dec 5, 2017)

From Jimmy Doolittle's autobiography, "I Could Never Be So Lucky Again": "Patton talked in a high-pitched almost feminine-sounding voice that penetrated his listener's psyches and demanded their undivided attention. His enthusiasm for combat was contagious. He was a born showman who could turn his act on and off as he chose; obscenities and his two ivory-handled revolvers were his trademarks. He was a unique individual. We saw eye-to-eye. I knew we could work together in whatever lay ahead."

Patton and Doolittle apparently became good friends, working together beginning with the invasion of Northern Africa. Doolittle's various commands provided air support for Patton's armies throughout the war. After V-E day, Patton and Doolittle toured the US together giving speeches. Posted below is a video of the two of them speaking together at a rally.

I was childhood pen-pals with General Doolittle, and began writing him when I was twelve. He never failed to send me a nice letter back. I last wrote him on his 95th birthday. I am sure everyone here knows that Doolittle was crucial in the development of instrument flying, and I let him know that I had gotten my instrument rating and what an inspiration he had been for me. He sent me back another very nice letter, thanking me.

Bill. what did you fliers think about Doolittle? I know that many bomber crews were unhappy with his decision to release fighters from strict bomber escort to attack the German fighters anywhere they could find them.


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## billrunnels (Dec 5, 2017)

airminded88 said:


> Unorthodox figures of leadership like Patton, Churchill and others have earned their spot in history and inmortality no matter how much they are demonized, their deeds deliberately diminished by those who harbor hate towards the free world in their hearts.
> Bill, during those missions with clear weather, where the front lines noticiable from the altitude you flew?
> 
> Cheers


Yes. We crossed the lines at 20,000 ft. and you could see smoke etc.

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## billrunnels (Dec 5, 2017)

Tim Moore said:


> From Jimmy Doolittle's autobiography, "I Could Never Be So Lucky Again": "Patton talked in a high-pitched almost feminine-sounding voice that penetrated his listener's psyches and demanded their undivided attention. His enthusiasm for combat was contagious. He was a born showman who could turn his act on and off as he chose; obscenities and his two ivory-handled revolvers were his trademarks. He was a unique individual. We saw eye-to-eye. I knew we could work together in whatever lay ahead."
> 
> Patton and Doolittle apparently became good friends, working together beginning with the invasion of Northern Africa. Doolittle's various commands provided air support for Patton's armies throughout the war. After V-E day, Patton and Doolittle toured the US together giving speeches. Posted below is a video of the two of them speaking together at a rally.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing the clip on General Patton. His voice was anything but strong. Regarding Doolittle, he was a brilliant leader as well. I can understand why he and Patton were friends. Both were aggressive in their leadership style. The only reason I give the nod to Patton is I had such admiration for those fighting on the ground.

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## michaelmaltby (Dec 5, 2017)

"And in General Pershing's words ... 'it doesn't hurt America to have a General so bold as to be dangerous as General Patton'"

That statement has never been more applicable to the great United States than it is today


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## airminded88 (Dec 5, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> Thanks for sharing the clip on General Patton. His voice was anything but strong. Regarding Doolittle, he was a brilliant leader as well. I can understand why he and Patton were friends. Both were aggressive in their leadership style. The only reason I give the nod to Patton is I had such admiration for those fighting on the ground.



During your time at Molesworth Bill, did you get to meet some of the USAAF personalities that eventually would find their way to history books like Dolittle or Spaatz?
I'm sure there's many more but those are the ones I can think about now.

Cheers


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## billrunnels (Dec 5, 2017)

airminded88 said:


> During your time at Molesworth Bill, did you get to meet some of the USAAF personalities that eventually would find their way to history books like Dolittle or Spaatz?
> I'm sure there's many more but those are the ones I can think about now.
> 
> Cheers


Unfortunately no. I don't think the dignitaries were making the rounds as they did earlier in the war.


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## airminded88 (Dec 6, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> Unfortunately no. I don't think the dignitaries were making the rounds as they did earlier in the war.



Thank you Bill.
The footage I've seen from them at the bases is when they handed medals to crews or milestones like the 8th first excursion to the continent in 1942.


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## Jimbob (Dec 7, 2017)

As far as I am concerned, these men were the right men for the job at the right time. The world was in danger of being overtaken by madmen at the time and extreme measures were needed to stop it. As far as personal faults, I am reminded of the saying " Don't meet your heroes, will be disappointed." The personal faults are what made them great.

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## Gnomey (Dec 13, 2017)

Great stuff Bill!


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