# Obama wants your guns



## Thorlifter (Aug 21, 2008)

How's the old saying go? They can have my gun when they pry it from my cold dead hand.


FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9


Documentation.....

1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 2, 2005. (U.S. Senate: Legislation Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote)

2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 20087. (Obama had greater role on liberal survey - Kenneth P. Vogel - Politico.com)

3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 2, 2005. (U.S. Senate: Legislation Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote)

4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, Political Punch, 2/15/08. (Political Radar: Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' on Gun Owners' Rights)

5. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2004 SB 2165, vote 20.

6. In the Illinois Senate, Obama sponsored SB-1136, which would have amended Illinois licensing laws by increasing the requirements for the Illinois Firearm Owners Identification card. When asked about registration during the Nevada Democratic debate on January 17, 2008, Obama did not oppose it, but simply stated, “I don’t think that we can get that done.” (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/politics/15demdebate-transcript.html?pagewanted=all)

7. “Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review)

8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.

9. “Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (The Volokh Conspiracy - Obama and Gun Control:)

10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

12. “Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,” Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (Radio Iowa: Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control)

13. Chicago Tribune blogs, “Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,” February 15, 2008, (The Swamp: Barack Obama: NIU shootings call for action)

14. Barack Obama campaign website: “As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .” (Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | UrbanPolicy.)

15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (Barack Obama on Gun Control and Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes) Oct 21, 2004.

16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34.


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## ccheese (Aug 21, 2008)

That's good to know..... He wasn't getting my vote anyhow !

Charles


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## ToughOmbre (Aug 21, 2008)

Been saying that all along. The guy *does not* support the second amendment. 

That's a deal breaker for me on it's own, not even taking into account his extremist views on abortion.

TO


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## Erich (Aug 21, 2008)

wonder if he has ever picked up a firearm in his life or gone out to the local range to pop off some rounds ? .............. most likely NO


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## Njaco (Aug 21, 2008)

Thanks Thor. It just keeps piling up. Someone in another thread wanted to know why we're scared of what Olabama might do. There's the answer.


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## RabidAlien (Aug 21, 2008)

Keep the unwashed masses controlled, and scared to go out at night because they can't defend themselves....its easier to rule that way. I hate the guy already, never even met him.


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## Njaco (Aug 21, 2008)

He may be trying to save himself. If he becomes pres I can see some James Earl Ray lovin' nutjob out for some fun.


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## wilbur1 (Aug 21, 2008)

Njaco said:


> He may be trying to save himself. If he becomes pres I can see some James Earl Ray lovin' nutjob out for some fun.


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## Erich (Aug 21, 2008)

with all the weirdos living in the states the man won't even last a year in office


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## Bucksnort101 (Aug 21, 2008)

"I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands!" I remember hearing Charlton Heston speaking this phrase back in the 90's when the Clinton's and Gore wanted to run things. 
My sentiments today.
This is just one of the long list of things that scare me about Mr. Obama.


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## ONE_HELLCAT (Aug 21, 2008)

If I recall correctly, the 2nd amendment basically states that we have the right to form a militia to defend the freedom of the state. Technically because we have cops, national guard, army, etc. citizens don't need to own guns. But is there anything wrong with owning a gun? Nope. I believe the statistics show that more people die in car accidents than in gun related accidents. Then again, 87% of statistics are made up on the spot.  

I've gone over this time and time again at school, laws against guns won't stop law breakers from getting them. And even if all the guns were removed from the world, it would just be a case about knife control.


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## ToughOmbre (Aug 21, 2008)

ONE_HELLCAT said:


> If I recall correctly, the 2nd amendment basically states that we have the right to form a militia to defend the freedom of the state.



No, that's not really the thrust of the amendment. It basically states that we the people have the right to keep and bear arms.

To be exact.....

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, *the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.*"



ONE_HELLCAT said:


> Technically because we have cops, national guard, army, etc. citizens don't need to own guns.



And how would you protect yourself at 3:00 in the morning if you have an intruder in your house? 



ONE_HELLCAT said:


> But is there anything wrong with owning a gun? Nope.



Now we agree.

TO


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## Marcel (Aug 21, 2008)

Obama wants my gun? He can have it


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## ONE_HELLCAT (Aug 21, 2008)

ToughOmbre said:


> Now we agree.
> 
> TO


I was always on your side, just putting out another view I've been taught.


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## magnocain (Aug 21, 2008)

> "I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands!" I remember hearing Charlton Heston speaking this phrase back in the 90's when the Clinton's and Gore wanted to run things.


Monday Jul 28 2008 | The Colbert Report | Comedy Central


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## Njaco (Aug 21, 2008)

> And how would you protect yourself at 3:00 in the morning if you have an intruder in your house?



Is that the phone call at 3am? Isn't Hillary waiting to save us?


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## Marcel (Aug 21, 2008)

ToughOmbre said:


> And how would you protect yourself at 3:00 in the morning if you have an intruder in your house?


Happens all the time over there eh?


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## magnocain (Aug 21, 2008)

> Happens all the time over there eh?


No, for me at least it is more around 4:00.


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## ToughOmbre (Aug 21, 2008)

Njaco said:


> Is that the phone call at 3am? Isn't Hillary waiting to save us?



Hillary save us? I'd rather let the intruder shoot me.  

TO


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## Njaco (Aug 21, 2008)




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## Thorlifter (Aug 21, 2008)




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## Erich (Aug 21, 2008)

I still say that peckerwood is still not out of the picture......yet


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## pbfoot (Aug 22, 2008)

I heard Obama also eats children and has a pointed tail


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## lesofprimus (Aug 22, 2008)

I just wonder how much Osama, I mean Obama is alienating his "colored" voters with his gun banning bullshit??? 

Every inner city male over the age of 17 owns one, 9 out of 10 illegally.......


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## RabidAlien (Aug 22, 2008)

ToughOmbre said:


> Hillary save us? I'd rather let the intruder shoot me.
> 
> TO



Band together with the intruder, shoot Hillary, then go out for beers.  Its what Corporate America likes to call "teamwork".


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## Torch (Aug 22, 2008)




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## drgondog (Aug 22, 2008)

ONE_HELLCAT said:


> If I recall correctly, the 2nd amendment basically states that we have the right to form a militia to defend the freedom of the state. Technically because we have cops, national guard, army, etc. citizens don't need to own guns. But is there anything wrong with owning a gun? Nope. I believe the statistics show that more people die in car accidents than in gun related accidents. Then again, 87% of statistics are made up on the spot.
> 
> I've gone over this time and time again at school, laws against guns won't stop law breakers from getting them. And even if all the guns were removed from the world, it would just be a case about knife control.



United States vs. Timothey Joe Emerson

This is a summary from the District Judge in Texas that well explains the genesis of the later 5th Circuit Court ruling in 1999 that the RIGHT was an indivdual right. The 5th Circuit Court was the first one to rule specifically on the Right of individuals to Keep and Bear Arms, the 2nd followed two years ago using much the same references and the Supreme Court, of course decided that it was an individual right - it does a good job of summarizing the Debate on this topic during the Constitutional Convention and summarizes what the Founding Fathers debated and agreed.

All three courts held reservations for Government applied restrictions, so the matter is not entirely dead for the left wing that wishes to reduce the law abiding gun owners to single shot .22's and raise taxes on ammo to $300 per cartridge - so keep the SOB's in your sights and don't let up..

One thing to remember is that all males between 18 and 45 are considered 'militia' for the common defense of the Constitution, which is the basis for legality of Draft.


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## ToughOmbre (Aug 22, 2008)

pbfoot said:


> I heard Obama also eats children and has a pointed tail



But he did oppose the *Born Alive Infant Protection Act* in the Illinois State when he was there (The Federal version of the same law passed 98-0 in the US Senate).

And he does support *partial birth *abortion.

Does believe a minor has the right to an abortion *without parental knowledge or consent.*

But haven't been able to confirm the pointed tail story as of yet.

TO


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## ToughOmbre (Aug 22, 2008)

RabidAlien said:


> Band together with the intruder, shoot Hillary, then go out for beers.  Its what Corporate America likes to call "teamwork".



   

TO


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 22, 2008)

lesofprimus said:


> I just wonder how much Osama, I mean Obama is alienating his "colored" voters with his gun banning bullshit???
> 
> Every inner city male over the age of 17 owns one, 9 out of 10 illegally.......



Yeah but even if Obama were to make ban all firearms, the inner city males will still have there guns...


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## RabidAlien (Aug 22, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Yeah but even if Obama were to make ban all firearms, the inner city males will still have there guns...



....and therein lies the problem. The honest, hardworking law-abiding citizens now have no defense except for the under-paid under-funded over-worked police forces (no offense to any cops on here....I know how hard y'all work, and how little y'all are paid), whereas the inner-city hoods will still buy them black-market. If they get caught with one, its what, about six months' jailtime, usually only serving two and a little bit of community service which they probalby won't show for anyway? Lets just make the population into targets, instead.


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## pbfoot (Aug 22, 2008)

ToughOmbre said:


> But he did oppose the *Born Alive Infant Protection Act* in the Illinois State when he was there (The Federal version of the same law passed 98-0 in the US Senate).
> 
> And he does support *partial birth *abortion.
> 
> ...


As I said this question is out of my pay grade , I believe I would poll women and see how they stand on this as it's they 90% of the time have the burden of raising the kids
To me there is no positive or negative answer just imagine the thoughts you'd have if it was your 14 yr old daughter who was pregnant as you watch her life take a huge hit which would certainly include you
To me its the individual who will have to answer to his maker


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## pbfoot (Aug 22, 2008)

RabidAlien said:


> ....and therein lies the problem. The honest, hardworking law-abiding citizens now have no defense except for the under-paid under-funded over-worked police forces (no offense to any cops on here....I know how hard y'all work, and how little y'all are paid), whereas the inner-city hoods will still buy them black-market. If they get caught with one, its what, about six months' jailtime, usually only serving two and a little bit of community service which they probalby won't show for anyway? Lets just make the population into targets, instead.


*It will never ever *happen it would take more then 2 terms to achieve that and the US public would not stand for it so the whole concept of it is a Repulican diversion from other issues


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## mkloby (Aug 22, 2008)

pbfoot said:


> *It will never ever *happen it would take more then 2 terms to achieve that and the US public would not stand for it so the whole concept of it is a Repulican diversion from other issues



It can happen - all it will take is appointment of more judges that invent the meaning of the Constitution beyond what is actually written.


Hellcat - you really need to read the 2nd Amendment brother.


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## pbfoot (Aug 22, 2008)

mkloby said:


> It can happen - all it will take is appointment of more judges that invent the meaning of the Constitution beyond what is actually written.
> 
> 
> Hellcat - you really need to read the 2nd Amendment brother.


Personally I think not , I probably have more chance of dating Paris Hilton and me her fortune then the 2nd amendment changing


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## mkloby (Aug 22, 2008)

pbfoot said:


> Personally I think not , I probably have more chance of dating Paris Hilton and me her fortune then the 2nd amendment changing



You do realize that a law similar to that of what Washington DC had at the Federal level is possible if the Supreme Court is hostile towards the right of the people to bear arms???


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## Matt308 (Aug 22, 2008)

pbfoot said:


> As I said this question is out of my pay grade , I believe I would poll women and see how they stand on this as it's they 90% of the time have the burden of raising the kids



What is most disturbing to me about the abortion question is how many folks think this is a decision for a women only. [I'm not attempting to put words in your mouth Pb]

I find it incredulous that a woman can make a decision with or without the male "conceiver". Irrespective of the decision (and the moral decision is of the utmost importance), it is truly disturbing that the woman can abort, not abort, without any consequences to the male's decision.

If you address this issue, the moral, economic, child rearing, dead-beat parent, child support, etc., all come into a different light. For me, not much changes morally. But, the decisions that are made by many selfish, and selfless, women would be drastically changed.

You can't have it both ways. Abortion rights (by both parents). The argument that the female as a surrogate has all the rights is BS.


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## pbfoot (Aug 22, 2008)

I agree totally the man should have an equal say but getting to reality forced marriages/relationships particularly in this day and age rarely work so in the long view its usually mom carrying the load.


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## Matt308 (Aug 22, 2008)

So what is the solution? Mom is always the welfare recipient?

Some of our society is our own doing. Other is evidence of our societal downfall.


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## Matt308 (Aug 22, 2008)

Okay. Sorry folks. Off the abortion/single family debate.

Back on subject. Obama after your 2nd amendment rights?


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## ToughOmbre (Aug 22, 2008)

Adoption!

There is no need to kill the babies. 

And Obama would also have babies who survived abortions left to die unattended and thrown out with the medical waste. That's why he voted against the Illinois Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

TO


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## Matt308 (Aug 22, 2008)

TO!! Back on topic.


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## pbfoot (Aug 22, 2008)

ToughOmbre said:


> Adoption!
> 
> There is no need to kill the babies.
> 
> ...


Mines adopted


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## ToughOmbre (Aug 22, 2008)

Matt308 said:


> TO!! Back on topic.



Sorry Matt.  

So Obama wants my guns? When he comes to get them there will be smoke comin' out of the barrels and empty magazines layin' all over the floor! And there won't be any ammo left either!

How's that?  

TO


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## Matt308 (Aug 22, 2008)

A little extreme. Understandable. But a little extreme.


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