# Military Members post pics of you in your uniforms.



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2005)

Well since we have military members from all over the world here I think it would be neat to have a collection of everyone who is serving or has served at any point in time to post a picture of them in there uniform or uniforms. You can be serving now or have served. Post your pics of you from WW2 through to today. 

I wil post mine when I get back home and can use my desktop which has better pics.

P.S. P-38 even though JROTC is not in the Military if you ask nicely and everyone says okay you can post a pic of you in your JROTC greens.


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 17, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> P.S. P-38 even though JROTC is not in the Military if you ask nicely and everyone says okay you can post a pic of you in your JROTC greens.


I personally don't have a problem with it. CC too, if he wants.
I'll post mine later. I'm feeling shy right now.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2005)

Oh I really dont care if he posts it or not. I was just trying to bug P-38 a bit. A military uniform is a uniform and if they are in ROTC or Cadets that is fine with me also. I just think it would be interesting to see a collage of uniforms from all over the world. Kind of puts things into perspective.


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## evangilder (Sep 17, 2005)

Okay, I will start, I guess. I thought I would post a couple of my dad too, to show that the uniforms hadn't changed much in a generation.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2005)

Nice pics, you and your dad really look alike.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 17, 2005)

Alder, im not in ROTC yet but ill get a picture of me in my camo, boots, and maybe my M1 Helmet soon.

Next year, ill defiently have my Uniform ready to show!

(I have to be in 9th grade in to join ROTC. Im in 8th!)


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 17, 2005)

Here's one of my brother and I taken in 1999


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 17, 2005)

Naval Pilot? Awesome! What aircraft did you fly?


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 17, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> Naval Pilot? Awesome! What aircraft did you fly?



I wasn't a naval pilot - I was a maintainer. I worked on P-3 engines and propellers and also worked on C-130s while in the Naval Reserve....


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 17, 2005)

Cool!


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 17, 2005)

A couple of me and one of my grandfather. I really need to see my dad about more pics of grandad.


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 17, 2005)

Great stuff NS - My do you look dapper!


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## lesofprimus (Sep 17, 2005)

I really dont have much of me.... It never really was a big thing taking pictures for us... Wish I had now... Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2005)

Good stuff guys. Hopefully some of the forign guys will start posting there stuff here too.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 17, 2005)

Whoa Les i see you recieved the Purple Heart! 

Awesome pics to NS!


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 17, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Great stuff NS - My do you look dapper!


Thanks buddy. I've aged well haven't I? 
Yours is a great pic too.


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 17, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> FLYBOYJ said:
> 
> 
> > Great stuff NS - My do you look dapper!
> ...



Thanks! Yea, you aged a bit, still dapper. I was an old fart when I went in so no loss there!


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 17, 2005)

Again, awesome uniforms. When i join ROTC next year ill have to get apicture of me in uniform.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2005)

I dont think I have any pictures of me in my greens. Only my ABDU's, BDU's, DCU's, Flight Suits and Blues.


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 17, 2005)

I haven't got any recent pics of me in my blue working rig, just older ones. No pics with the submariner coveralls either.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2005)

Well then take some damnit!


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 17, 2005)

No!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 18, 2005)

Afraid CC might get a little turned on?


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 18, 2005)

I think CC *would* get turned on! 

That would be cool to see you in Greens Alder since all ive seen are your Dress uniforms.



(Were just joking CC! You probably pick up Italian chicks everyday. 8) )


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## plan_D (Sep 18, 2005)

Do you fancy, CC, or something? Anyway, CC has been to Italy once for all of 10 minutes.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 18, 2005)

CC sounds like a pretty cool guy. We talk all the time on Msn Messenger.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 18, 2005)

And boy, do I ever pity CC....


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 18, 2005)

Les, if you dont mind me asking and if you REALLY dont want to talk about its ok. How did you earn the purple heart? If you dont want to tell im ok with that.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 18, 2005)

I was hit in the wrist with a piece shrapnel in Iraq... I was entitled to three PH's but only accepted one... The other 2 were minor wounds that were more embarrassing than anything else...


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 18, 2005)

The wrist hit sounds painful.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 18, 2005)

It was and still does... Nasty scar as well....


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## plan_D (Sep 18, 2005)

I actually feel sorry for CC. 

And the shrapnel, les, freakin' unlucky!


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 18, 2005)

Damn. Come on NS take some pictures man!


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## lesofprimus (Sep 18, 2005)

Actually I was very lucky that it only hit my wrist... I was blown 30 feet and lost alot of the hearing in my right ear.... And all I did was break a bone in my foot and my pinky finger.... One piece of shrapnel out of 3,000 hit me...

Lucky bastard that I am...


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 18, 2005)

My brother turned down a PH when he was in Viet Nam. In those days a Western Union Telegram was sent to the parents or wife with little or no explination, you didn't know if the soldier was wounded or dead!


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## plan_D (Sep 18, 2005)

Well, les, I change it. You lucky-lucky bastard!


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## lesofprimus (Sep 18, 2005)

I just had the corpseman lie about the injuries... Getting hit in the ass aint something u brag about...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 18, 2005)

A guy I know got a PH when he rolled over a Land mine. It had been placed there about an hour before he drove by in a HUMVEE. He was pretty lucky that it was uparmoured and that he had on his vest and kevlar otherwise he would not have made it out so well.


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## Maestro (Sep 18, 2005)

lesofprimus said:


> I just had the corpseman lie about the injuries... Getting hit in the ass aint something u brag about...



I understand, but it could have been worst... Imagine if, for some reason, you had turned around just before the bullet has hit you ass... You would sing soprano, now.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 18, 2005)

Yeah I think I would rather get hit hit in the ass. To be quite honest I am glad that I have not been hit yet.....(knock on wood).


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 18, 2005)

Damn Les! 30 FEET!!! God almighty you flew!


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## Wildcat (Sep 19, 2005)

Here's a pic of me, I'll have to try and find one of me in my cams.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 19, 2005)

Great pics, I really love the hat.


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## evangilder (Sep 19, 2005)

Great stuff guys! Good idea for this thread,Adler!


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 19, 2005)

Ok so ive posted them before but here I am in my greens. Tomorrow I have my drill exam, if I pass I get my blues and my beret, and will be part of the squadron at last! 8)


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 19, 2005)

Great pics guys. Wildcat, I really dig that hat! No foolin'. I wonder how I can get hold of one. 
It looks like the Australian and Canadian armies still use the same artillery hat badge. Based on the British one of course.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 19, 2005)

> Damn Les! 30 FEET!!! God almighty you flew!


Like I said, I was very lucky....


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 19, 2005)

Nice stuff guys! CC - you need a cover!

Wildcat - do you ever do any target work with the Kalkara Drone?


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 19, 2005)

Awesome pics. Hope they accept you in the squad CC!


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## Wildcat (Sep 20, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Wildcat - do you ever do any target work with the Kalkara Drone?



No mate, We always used a Lear jet towing a target on a 5Km long cable. The RAAF and RAN mainly use the Kalkara.

Since everyone commented on my hat, I took some close up shots (sorry about the crappy quality). The Australian Slouch Hat (or Hat, Khaki Fur Felt in Army lingo) has been worn by Aussie Diggers into battle since the Boer War. Many preferring to wear this over helmuts, especially in areas of hot climate. Apparently the Slouch Hat was the only piece of uniform that didn't disintergrate in the tough jungle conditions of New Guinea in WWII!

The left side of the hat is turned up only when wearing cerimonial uniform or for a cerimonial parade. For everyday use the brim is worn down flat (If it's not flat and straight enough you'll soon be told by the nearest NCO!!) as in my picture above. The chin strap in worn strictly on the end of the chin, unlike how I'm wearing it, or that bastard NCO will again be tearing strips of you! The band around the hat is called a "Puggaree" and each line represents the states in Australia.


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 20, 2005)

Cool.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 20, 2005)

Cool. Oh and awesome new sig CC!


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 20, 2005)

Wildcat said:


> FLYBOYJ said:
> 
> 
> > Wildcat - do you ever do any target work with the Kalkara Drone?
> ...



Just wondering - I worked on the program and helped build all of them.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 21, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> Awesome pics. Hope they accept you in the squad CC!



Of course they'll accept me in the squad, im F*cking amazing...

Drill test been postponed till next week...damnit!


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 21, 2005)

I think when i join JROTC im going to go into either Color Guard or Drill Team.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 22, 2005)

Ill try and post my pics tonight. I have not been on for the last few days.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 22, 2005)

ok


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## Medvedya (Sep 23, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Ok so ive posted them before but here I am in my greens. Tomorrow I have my drill exam, if I pass I get my blues and my beret, and will be part of the squadron at last! 8)



Ah, Combat 95's...gotta love 'em. Initially covered with a showerproof coating that boils off as soon as you iron it!

Having said that, with my limited experience of this sort of thing, I ought to STFU, but your kit _seriously_ needs a good ironing!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> I think when i join JROTC im going to go into either Color Guard or Drill Team.



When I was in JROTC I commanded the Exhibition Drill Team. We took 2nd place in Europe.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2005)

As I said I will post my military pics now. The only things I dont have pictures of are of me in my BDU's (Battle Dress Uniform), Class A's (Greens) and my Green Flight Suits. I know I have some somewhere but I dont know where they are.


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 24, 2005)

Great pics. Why would the Army want you to look like infantry?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2005)

It is our Division staff they think that we should all look the same and Army of One. So our Division does not let us wear the standard Flight Suits and instead makes us where Aviation Battle Dress Uniforms that look like regular Army Uniforms but are made of Nomex for flight operations. It is gay!


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 24, 2005)

I don't think it looks gay, but I can understand your frustration. When the three services of the Canadian military were first unified into the Canadian Armed Forces back in 1968, everybody had to wear the same Army style green uniform. It was downright sh*tty! Sailors and airmen looking like ground pounders! That lasted right up until 1984, when separate uniforms were finally reintroduced.


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## evangilder (Sep 24, 2005)

Nice shots, Adler. 

One style of uniform? That sounds like a severe cost-cutting measure. Glad they went back to separate uniforms. Geez!


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 24, 2005)

My cousins who'd joined the Navy in the 70's hated it. The distinctive service uniforms brought a bit of pride back to the Navy and Air Force for a time. Until the big cuts started again.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 24, 2005)

Awesome uniforms Alder! Leader of the Drill Team? Thats pretty cool! If i join Color Guard next year, i might get to use the M1 Garand. But i was reading about Drill Team and found it to be more challenging an outdoor like.

So im going to join Drill Team next year because it sounds fun and very interesting!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2005)

We hate it because as aviators we want to wear our flight suits and look like people that fly.

It is not really a cost saver even because it still very different. It is basically a one piece flight suit that has been cut in two parts.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 24, 2005)

Camo does look cool. But you are right Alder, they should let you guys wear your flight suits although your greens looked awesome!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 25, 2005)

We dont wear greens when we fly or go to work.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 25, 2005)

Ok now im confused....


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 25, 2005)

By "greens" he's talking about his class-A uniform.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 25, 2005)

Oh ok.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 25, 2005)

The camo uniform is called the BDU's (Battle Dress Uniform) and the new one that is being fielded now is called the ACU (Advanced Combat Uniform).


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 25, 2005)

Man, im going to need to catch up on my "Knowing your uniforms."


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 25, 2005)

It's different between countries too. In the Canadian Army, "greens" refers to the camouflage combat uniform. Their equivalent of a class-A is called CF's. I think the Brits call the combat uniform "greens" too, but I'm not sure.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 25, 2005)

Armies and their names for uniforms can be very confusing at times.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 25, 2005)

Especially when you realize how many different uniforms a service can have. Look at our Navy. They have so many I think they are talking about cutting them down to only 3.


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## Medvedya (Sep 26, 2005)

Urm.. As far as I know, in the British Army they just call them CB95 or DPM's. (Disrupted Pattern Material) 

Or more unoffically; "A sack of shit, tied up with green string in the middle."


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 26, 2005)

Well "Disruptive Pattern" would be the official name for ours too, but the boys just tend to call 'em greens usually. Or tans, when they finally got the desert sh*t. Took 'em long enough. I can't remember what they call the arctic crap. Probably just "arctic crap".


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## evangilder (Sep 26, 2005)

I remember the air force had woodland camouflage, desert camouflage and artic camouflage in addition to the fatigues (basic OD green) and the dress blues.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 27, 2005)

The new ACU (Advanced Combat Uniform) uses digital patterns similar to the Canadian Army which the US Marines stole from them. It replaces woodland camo and desert camo so you only have to have one uniform now where ever you go.


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 27, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> The new ACU (Advanced Combat Uniform) uses digital patterns similar to the Canadian Army which the US Marines stole from them.


That's cool though. Ours still looks prettier. 



The Canadian Army still issues the digital cammo in woodland and desert though. They don't just use the one colour. Anymore that is.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 27, 2005)

Ours is a blend of greens, browns, and tans and we wear desert boots with it. I have not had mine issued to me though and it wont matter because they dont have flight suits in the that pattern so I will still have woodland and tan flight suits.


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## Wildcat (Sep 27, 2005)

Here's some pics of Aussie DPCU's (Disruptive pattern camouflage uniform) or known simply as cams.


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 27, 2005)

And here we have an Aussie with some Canucks. Don't they look like a happy bunch?


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## Medvedya (Sep 27, 2005)

It's a Flecktarn explosion!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 28, 2005)

I always like the German Flecktarn that they use today. It is a quite interesting camo combo.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 28, 2005)

I passed my drill exam yestersay and im in the main sqd. now. Ill take some pics of me in my blues soon.


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## evangilder (Sep 28, 2005)

Good job, CC.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 28, 2005)

Cheers. Its so awesome being tall, and thus right marker


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## evangilder (Sep 28, 2005)

Not that I would know!  Congrats though.


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 28, 2005)

Excellent job CC! 
But right marker sucks. I _do_ know.


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## Maestro (Sep 28, 2005)

Yeah, congratulations CC.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 28, 2005)

I like the Camo Sweden uses!


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## Medvedya (Sep 28, 2005)

Well done C.C! But you know, if ever you go to a barracks and fail to see the standard issue foil wrapped chocolate on the pillow of your bunk, you should immediately march over to where the R.S.M is billeted - wake him up, and complain bitterly. If you can, also pull him up on the lamentable selection in the mini-bar, and seemingly non-existant room service. 

He'll realise that you're a cadet who knows what he's about and congratuate you on your decisive action before immediately attending to the issues you raised forthwith.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 28, 2005)

CONGRATULATIONS CC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I need a pic of u in ur beret now for the Mugshots Album.........


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 29, 2005)

Awesome CC! You'll look pretty cool in your uniform! Still trying to get pictures of me in my camo and boots....


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## Gnomey (Sep 29, 2005)

Well done CC. Enjoy!

I am in the process of trying to get into the University Air Corps (North East Scotland Squadron). If I get it I will try and get a pic of me in RAF uniform.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2005)

Thanks guys, didnt expect such a positive response...

Ill get some shots tomorrow, gotta go through the process of moulding the beret first  Will probably watch a film at the same time.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 30, 2005)

Ok


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## Medvedya (Sep 30, 2005)

Not a military member as such, but here's a pic of me in my RKKA kit.


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 30, 2005)

He's military alright. Bottle of booze at the ready!


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## Medvedya (Sep 30, 2005)

Booze or ammo? - gotta be a no-brainer.


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## evangilder (Sep 30, 2005)

Da, comrade Medvedya! Na z drowie! A drink to the heroes of the Great Patriotic War!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 1, 2005)

apparently i could join the ATC but i'd have to put my hair up in a bun!


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 1, 2005)

What, no comment about comrade Med, protector of the rodina, hero of the Red Army?


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## lesofprimus (Oct 1, 2005)

Hey Med, did u get 5 bullets to go along with that bottle????


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 1, 2005)

They offered him a medal, but he chose the vodka instead. A true Hero.


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## P38 Pilot (Oct 1, 2005)

Les has got a point about the bullets you know! Russian soldiers would sometimes be given a rifle or ammo!


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 1, 2005)

Hell yeah...


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## lesofprimus (Oct 1, 2005)

Cool shot, but u dont need to look like a badass Private Pyle....... lol


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## FLYBOYJ (Oct 1, 2005)

Looking good!!!


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## evangilder (Oct 1, 2005)

Right on, CC! The sleeves look a tad long on your sweater though.


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 1, 2005)

Nice duds.
But I think your beret needs more forming. It looks like you're wearing a loaf of Italian bread or something. 
It looks like it's on sideways too. Aren't those vent holes supposed to be on the side?


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 1, 2005)

They arent vent holes. My pin goes there when I get it  Im forming it as we speak. I only look like that cos the sun was in my eyes.


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 1, 2005)

Oh, ok. They looked like vent holes at first. You can see them on the left side of the first pic here. The anchor badge is worn over the left eye, so the holes are actually on the side. They're covered by the "flap" though, so they're invisible. Excuse the lint.


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## Medvedya (Oct 1, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> Les has got a point about the bullets you know! Russian soldiers would sometimes be given a rifle or ammo!




Ah ha! This happened in WWI, but never officially in WWII! 

Of course there were partisans who had to tag along with the cell without a weapon until they either killed a 'Pit Viper' (German) or one of the cell was killed.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 1, 2005)

Looking a little better now.


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## Medvedya (Oct 1, 2005)

Are you using the one basin of hot and then one of cold method?


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 1, 2005)

Indeed I am. 30 more mins and then its the airing cupboard for the night


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## lesofprimus (Oct 1, 2005)

Excuse me CC, but are wearing a little blankie in that last pic???


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## Medvedya (Oct 1, 2005)

Be sure to not have it pulled down too far over your forehead (Frank Spencer style) The best way is to wear it so it feels as if the back of it is falling off the top of your head.

Also, put one hand - fingers up, over your left eye so the tips of your fingers are just touching where the badge is.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 1, 2005)

No les, its a towel, the beret was kinda dripping wet...I dont copy EVERYTHING lanc does...

The instuctions say 2.5cms...I think I got it...


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## Medvedya (Oct 1, 2005)

Oh one other thing, if it still has the diamond thingy still sewn inside - take it out.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 1, 2005)

I will, dont want a sweaty head now. The only think im thinking is just how to get it out...


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## lesofprimus (Oct 1, 2005)

> I dont copy EVERYTHING lanc does...


Thank God..... Those sheep in Cornwall would have a hellofa time if there were 2 of u.........


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## Gnomey (Oct 1, 2005)




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## P38 Pilot (Oct 1, 2005)

Cool pic CC! Although you sorta look like a French Partisan....


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## evangilder (Oct 2, 2005)

Like you would know...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 2, 2005)

Congrats CC!

However I did notice one thing in you Blues pic.... You need to put some muscle mass on, you have such a womanly figure!


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## rob (Oct 2, 2005)

Cold Warrior 1984-1992


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 2, 2005)

His first post and he shows up with a machine gun. I like him already.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 2, 2005)

Nice pic there. Love the M-60. I still use it today!


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## evangilder (Oct 3, 2005)

Welcome aboard, Rob!


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## Gnomey (Oct 3, 2005)

Welcome Rob. Nice pic.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Congrats CC!
> 
> However I did notice one thing in you Blues pic.... You need to put some muscle mass on, you have such a womanly figure!



So does everyone else  My muscles are there, just wasnt tensing them.


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## P38 Pilot (Oct 3, 2005)

Awesome pic Rob! Nice M-60 you have there!


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 12, 2005)

Hey, I'm still waiting to see a pic of 102first_hussars in his uniform. C'mon Huss, surely you have _something_ that isn't JTF classified that you can put up. How about a Loyal Eddies pic then, or even a basic training pic? Anything.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 12, 2005)

How about a Cadet uniform pic?

Here is a pic that I promised from my promotion on the 1st of November. Sorry it took so long to post it.

I really wish that our Command would let us wear our regular one piece flight suits rather than the Aviation BDU's that they make us wear to make us look like infantry because after my wife pinned on my new rank everyone comes by and hit you in the collar to make the pins dig into your flesh and let the blood flow. It is tradition but hurts like a bitch. If I had been wearing my one piece flight suit then it just would have been a leather name tag velcroed to the suit.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 12, 2005)

Way to go sarge!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 12, 2005)

Thanks well gotta go for now. Taking the misses out tonight.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 12, 2005)

Ah, you look so handsome with your Big Red 1 and...  

*ahem!*

Uh...way to go man. 


So Huss, how about it? Where are the uniform pics? We all want to see something. I know _I_ do.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 12, 2005)

Congrats Adler.... Bout damn time the Army got around to promoting u....

Yea hussars, u seem to be so military oriented, Im sure u have some pics of urself sunning in Afghanistan lying around...


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 12, 2005)

Congrats Sgt! The Big Red One sure is a famous division! Alright right guys, lay off of Hussars some now. He'll get around to posting some pics of him in uniform. I wish they allowed 8th graders into ROTC earlier so i could get a pic of me in uniform.


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 12, 2005)

I dont have a Digital Camera so Im trying to scan a few photos but the dam thing isnt working properly, Ill update you guys.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 12, 2005)

This I gotta see.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 13, 2005)

Cant wait!


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2005)

I could care less to be honest with u.... The dude said he graduated High School in 1987... That means, unless Im wrong, that he is 36 years old, 3 years younger than me...

And I would assume that he joined the military when he was just out of HS, maybe 18-19, but for the benefit of the doubt, we'll say 20...

So, we have someone who claims to be in the Canadian Armed Forces for 16 years or so, and yet does not have a single pic on his computer, acts like P-38 pilot, used an anime avatar, and has some sort of fetish with Cartman from South Park....

Doesnt sound like any veteran of foriegn affairs that I've ever met, who claims to have fired in anger, and Ive sure met enough of them...

Maybe the reason he doesnt have any pics is because he has to download some off the internet and make believe they are him....

Seriously dude, if u want people to believe what u say, start acting like who u say u are.... The way u act is beyond immature, and the things u say are from the mouth of the unintiated....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 13, 2005)

That is all you have to do, be your self.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 13, 2005)

But hey, I really do wanna see something. I'm curious is all. And I was getting lonely being the only Canadian Forces rep here. 
So bring on the Pickley stuff!


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2005)

Heres an old pic of me sunning on the flightdeck off the coast of Somolia, on our way to the Equator and the Shellback initiation...

Goddamn that Davey Jones.... Polywogs Suck, Shellbacks Rule!!!


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 13, 2005)

Pepsi? Come oooooooooon!


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2005)

Sorry, our ships are not "wet"..... Aleast the Pepsi was cold, which in Mogadishu was a rare commodity I'll tell ya....


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 13, 2005)

Couldn't possibly sneak a little rum in with the Pepsi, eh?


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2005)

Shhhh.... Actually Amaretto was the "spiker" of choice....


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 13, 2005)

Outstanding. Where there's a will...


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 13, 2005)

lesofprimus said:


> So, we have someone who claims to be in the Canadian Armed Forces for 16 years or so, and yet does not have a single pic on his computer, *acts like P-38 pilot*, used an anime avatar, and has some sort of fetish with Cartman from South Park....


Alright, im not _that_ bad!! Eric Cartmann is hilarious!



lesofprimus said:


> Doesnt sound like any veteran of foriegn affairs that I've ever met, who claims to have fired in anger, and Ive sure met enough of them...
> 
> _Maybe the reason he doesnt have any pics is because he has to download some off the internet and make believe they are him_....



Alright guys just give him time! Youll get to see your pics of him. Just lay off some.... Les, that last comment was kinda rude. He may act immature but give him time. I learned my lesson, make him learn his through allowing himself to prove he is what he says he is!


----------



## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2005)

> Alright, im not that bad!!


Yes u are, but ur allowed, cause ur 14 years old, not 36....


> Les, that last comment was kinda rude.


Duh!!! Do u think??? How bout u STFU before I bounce u off the floor again...


> I learned my lesson


Yea right.... U'll be learning ur lesson till either u get run over by a car for failing to look both ways, or by some 225 lb Black as Night Drill Instructor who stomps it into ur ass....


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 13, 2005)

First off, im alert and i pay attention to my surrounding enviroment so that last comment wasnt needed. Im more alert than other people. I pay attention to when im doing something, adn defintely when i cross the street.

Les, i wasnt trying to tell you what to do just saying that you guys are getting a little to hasty with Hussars.

Oh and i did learn my lesson, im a little less annoying when i came here.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2005)

> Les, i wasnt trying to tell you what to do just saying that you guys are getting a little *to* hasty with Hussars.


Yes u did, and no we are not... AND ITS *TOO* NOT TO!!!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 13, 2005)

LOL Oh boy never ending entertainment here.


Here is a pic of me holding up an Iranian Flag that I found in an Iranian Tank that had been captured by the Iraqis. We flew to this place to take some people there and while they were doing what they wanted to do we went around and climbed into the Iranian and Iraqi tanks and BMP's. We came back with helmets, flags, you name it. It was actually pretty cool that day. Made up for the heat and sweat.


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 13, 2005)

lesofprimus said:


> Sorry, our ships are not "wet"..... Aleast the Pepsi was cold, which in Mogadishu was a rare commodity I'll tell ya....



Funny, they have pepsi logos all over the city. They beat coke to the punch.


anyway Les I know you like being the big bully on this site so Im not going to get pissed with you, but I will say this, Those kids on South Park in comparison to the way your acting, Are the fathers of 'The Enlightenment'.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 13, 2005)

Ouch its about to get ugly in here.


----------



## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2005)

> Funny, they have pepsi logos all over the city. They beat coke to the punch.


The active word in my sentence was "COLD"...


> Those kids on South Park in comparison to the way your acting, Are the fathers of 'The Enlightenment'.


And ur a lying piece of shit that doesnt even have the common sense to shut his yap when his bluff has been called.... Do u think thats the first time some meatball from Canada has vainly tried to insult me???

You obviously have no idea who I am and have no idea what I did in the military... I know many many service members from all over the globe, and if u were in Afghanistan, I'm the fuckin Pope...

Why dont u do us Administrators, and all the other "truthful" members, a fucking favor and just leave... Im sick of talking about u and the other fuck nuts in the Admin Only Section...

You're like a piece of sand in a cog mechanism.... Wish I could just wash ur ass out with some WD-40...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 13, 2005)

Told you.


----------



## 102first_hussars (Nov 13, 2005)

"Are the fathers of 'The Enlightenment'"


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2005)

Good reply numb-nuts...


----------



## 102first_hussars (Nov 13, 2005)

thanks As*hole


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2005)

> thanks As*hole


Well atleast ur telling the truth about one thing....


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## plan_D (Nov 13, 2005)

Evenin' ...


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 13, 2005)

PD, I dont know why but you have just brightend my day, that is the best entrance I have ever seen.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 13, 2005)

So tell us Hussar, do you walk the walk or just talk the talk - there are some here who have 1. Served proudly in the military of our respective country in some capacity and really know what the f#ck we're talking about, 2. Have worked or flown on some of these aircraft that we so passionately debut over, 3. Have studied these aircraft so well that we could probably be employed at Harvard or West Point as a professor (Erich definitely) or 4. Just try to bullsh*t our way through through some of these discussions though childish comments and innuendo that just make one look like a bigger assh*le than he already is - which one is it Hussar, do you have a clue or is it you?!?!

I suggest you start looking at some archived posts and see the background and education of some of membership on this forum. Even some of our most junior members (in age) have more aviation historical knowledge than renowned "experts" you see on prime time documentaries. You're in a company of very knowledgeable people who know what they're talking about so before you begin to come up with some comic book BS, I suggest you thoroughly check your six as you will be challenged accordingly....


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 13, 2005)

Flyboy give it a rest.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 13, 2005)

I just did.....


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 14, 2005)

Im going out for a f*cking smoke


----------



## kiwimac (Nov 14, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> How about a Cadet uniform pic?
> 
> Here is a pic that I promised from my promotion on the 1st of November. Sorry it took so long to post it.
> 
> I really wish that our Command would let us wear our regular one piece flight suits rather than the Aviation BDU's that they make us wear to make us look like infantry because after my wife pinned on my new rank everyone comes by and hit you in the collar to make the pins dig into your flesh and let the blood flow. It is tradition but hurts like a b*tch. If I had been wearing my one piece flight suit then it just would have been a leather name tag velcroed to the suit.



Ah Sergeants, we need more of 'em, the only ones better are WOs!

Kiwimac


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## kiwimac (Nov 14, 2005)

I just love a good show


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 14, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> So tell us Hussar, do you walk the walk or just talk the talk - there are some here who have 1. Served proudly in the military of our respective country in some capacity and really know what the f#ck we're talking about, 2. Have worked or flown on some of these aircraft that we so passionately debut over, 3. Have studied these aircraft so well that we could probably be employed at Harvard or West Point as a professor (Erich definitely) or 4. Just try to bullsh*t our way through through some of these discussions though childish comments and innuendo that just make one look like a bigger assh*le than he already is - which one is it Hussar, do you have a clue or is it you?!?!
> 
> I suggest you start looking at some archived posts and see the background and education of some of membership on this forum. Even some of our most junior members (in age) have more aviation historical knowledge than renowned "experts" you see on prime time documentaries. You're in a company of very knowledgeable people who know what they're talking about so before you begin to come up with some comic book BS, I suggest you thoroughly check your six as you will be challenged accordingly....



Very well said. I believe something that gets people going Hussars is the fact that you rarely post in the aviation forums and when you do it is normally some wise ass remark that has no merit.



kiwimac said:


> Ah Sergeants, we need more of 'em, the only ones better are WOs!



That I agree with. As a crewchief we love the WO's. They never forgot where they come from in the fact that most of them were NCO's before they went to flight school or what not. WO's are great and we have so much respect for them. Fortunatly just about all of the pilots in my unit are WO's and I have to say we have a great time whenever we fly and work together.


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## evangilder (Nov 14, 2005)

Good pic, Adler! My my, this has been an interesting read. One thing for sure, the veterans on this forum have sensitive bullshit detectors and they are usually pretty damn accurate. I had my suspicions early on, as I am sure a number of us did. It is quite easy to come up with excuses, and most of us have heard them all "it's classified", "my records are all classified", "my records were lost in the archives file", "I don't have anything that I can post because it's classified". Egads, man! Les has been on some ops that are photography forbidden, as have myself and several others, but we have plenty of pictures of unclassified stuff to share. 

Bottom line, put up or shut up.


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 14, 2005)

> Very well said. I believe something that gets people going Hussars is the fact that you rarely post in the aviation forums and when you do it is normally some wise ass remark that has no merit.



Whatever, its a new day lets all start over.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 14, 2005)

You make the first move.


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 14, 2005)

Ok, 

Good afternoon Adler, Hows Germany treating you today?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 14, 2005)

Just fine.....

Got any pics yet.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 14, 2005)




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## lesofprimus (Nov 14, 2005)

> Whatever, its a new day lets all start over.


It may be a new day, but its the same month and year pal, and u just dont wiggle off the hook....


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 14, 2005)

Oh I have the pics alright (film photos) with a scanner being fixed at Compu-smart. 

Wiggle off the hook? 

Im going to tell you the same thing I told my ex-girlfriend 
"Quit Living In The Past"


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## lesofprimus (Nov 14, 2005)

> Im going to tell you the same thing I told my ex-girlfriend
> "Quit Living In The Past


Thats just short of the gayest thing thats ever been said here... Are u sure ur not a pole smoker???


----------



## 102first_hussars (Nov 14, 2005)

Im pretty sure.

anyway lay off.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 14, 2005)

No.


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 14, 2005)

Yes


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## kiwimac (Nov 14, 2005)

Now children be nice, or Pappa .... will do something vaguely authoritarian.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 14, 2005)

"Stop! Or I'll say stop again!"


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## lesofprimus (Nov 14, 2005)

LMFAO... We used to stomp on infantry fags like this all the time...


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 14, 2005)

Who? you and Josey Wales or that Pig on your Flag?

Anyway I just wanted to let everybody know that I have given the opportunity to end this 3 day feud but les has declined so I am going to make this known to everyone before my ass gets burned because Les has this ability to be an A*shole but appear to be a respectable human being.


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## evangilder (Nov 15, 2005)

Well, gee, you make a statement and get called out on it and have yet to come clean. Now you are trying to pull a "poor pitiful me" routine. Like I said before, you either put up, or shut up. Your choice.


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 15, 2005)

I can put up with it just fine, everybody seems to be sick of this constant fighting between me and Les so Im trying to end it for the good of everyone else, and Im not pulling shit all.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 15, 2005)

Who said they are sick of it. We just want our suspissions confirmed. Oh and by the way that pig that you are talking about is a 'Wilde Sau' a very very good and respectable unit of the Luftwaffe in WW2.


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## evangilder (Nov 15, 2005)

Ummm, define everyone... You have made several unsubstantiated claims. When you get questions about the info or asked for a source, you change the subject. I know there are several that are waiting for you to come clean. But you have one excuse after another or you change the subject and don't return to a forum. 

You see, there are a few of us here that have seen our fair share of action as well as our fair share of bullshit. There are a lot of wannabe glory boys that talk all kinds of smack about what units they are in and what action they have done. It doesn't take long to separate the wheat from the chaff. And so far, things aren't looking good for you. So will Les lay off? I doubt it, until you prove your claims, or STFU.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 15, 2005)

Hell man, just put up a pic or two. They can't be _that_ bad, are they?
A couple of old childhood buds of mine couldn't wait to showoff pics of themselves in combat rig when they got around to it. Modest boys they are. 
They were both in Afghanistan too. One's out of the mob now. He was with 3 PPCLI. The other one is still in with 3 RCR.


Is this you?


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## lesofprimus (Nov 15, 2005)

> Who? you and Josey Wales or that Pig on your Flag?


In case u didnt know, I was a Navy SEAL attached to ST2.. Ive been engaged in several countries, including Panama, Kuwait, Iraq, Sierra Leone, Somolia, Haitai, and Bosnia... I've been decorated many times, including a Purple Heart...

Ur just a plain old dipshit poser that thinks that lying about his experience get him extra brownie points... Ive seen hundreds like urself... JTF my ass.... Ur bluff has been called many times, and the only thing u've managed to prove is that ur a pussy....

For the record, as others have seen this before, but here is a pic of my decorations... Put or shut up meatball....


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## trackend (Nov 15, 2005)

Whats the third one down on the right Les as with my manky eyes I cant make out the little center emblem (or is it the light catching a star) it's quite show of ribbons either way, 
I dont mind seeing them again at all. Fucking nice show Les.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 15, 2005)

Third one down on right is the MUC, or Meritorious Unit Commendation, the star signifying a second award..


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 15, 2005)

Just found these - someone took a picture of me ACTUALLY working! That aircraft was PG 407, Lockheed S/N 5704 (I think). I worked on her during final assembly back in 1980 - 17 years later we meet again!

The one in the flight suit was right before we deployed to Barbers point Hawaii for RIMPAC 98'


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## evangilder (Nov 15, 2005)

Good stuff, Joe. I like the fighter jock pose in the second shot.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 15, 2005)

Thanks Eric - we all had to wear the green bag anytime we flew in the plane.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 15, 2005)

Joe with tools and full of oil and grease. It really completes the picture. 
Nice shots.


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## Medvedya (Nov 15, 2005)

Oh well, some news from the Chocolate soldier front anyway - the 2nd Guards were out in Edinburgh on the Royal Mile this weekend collecting for the Poppy Appeal. It was good fun, chatting to friendly Canucks and Americans about their own Veterans days (Canada has more or less the same arrangements), getting photographed by phalanxes of giggling Japanese girls and meeting a _gorgious_ Russian devochka who told me that her great-grandfather fought in the Defence of Moscow. 

Also it was fun to see the double takes people made at one of us who was in full Cossack rig, complete with birka woolen coat!

Here's a pic of roughly what it looked like.


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## evangilder (Nov 15, 2005)

Sounds like good fun, Med! Good on you for collecting for the Poppy Appeal.


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## Medvedya (Nov 15, 2005)

Ah, there is something interesting that _might_ happen as well. 

Someone is going to make a film about the Night Witches, and it looks as if they're interested in having the younger members as extras! 

Have to see what happens with that.


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## evangilder (Nov 15, 2005)

Hmmm...Med the movie star?!


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## Medvedya (Nov 15, 2005)

Hardly!  Nah, they're mainly after the girls (ain't we all?) and it will mean standing around all day - probably in the freezing cold, to be in a single frame of a 10 second sequence that gets cut from the final film! 

Someone told me that it's a bit complicated where living history groups are concerned, as we wouldn't just be extras in the conventional sense, because our presence would also come under the remit of 'historical advisors' which sounds (and is) a bit swisher.


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## evangilder (Nov 16, 2005)

Yeah, I know what you mean. Some of the guys in my unit at Lakenheath were extras in "The Last Days of Patton". If you freeze frame a part of a formation shot, you can see them. It's just a pan past shot. They did a LOT of just standing around all day for the one shot. But you never know. You may get picked for a quick walk on part, like a courier or something.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 16, 2005)

Pretty cool Med - My sister is a "Professional Extra" in New Your City. She's done a few "big" movies and some TV stuff.


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## trackend (Nov 16, 2005)

Nice shots Fbj 
personally I like the matlot rig.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 16, 2005)

Thanks mate!


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 16, 2005)

Well, Im picking up my scanner on Friday Ill post some pics then, hows that?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 16, 2005)

We will see.....

Great pics FBJ. I wish they would let us wear the old pickle suits again. I am tired of Aviation Battle Dress Uniforms!


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 16, 2005)

Thanks! The BDUs would work well if you got to pee in a hurry!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 16, 2005)

That is true, but the pickle suits are just too classic!


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 16, 2005)

What Everybody has been waiting for.

Ill get some more with some better resolution but theyre in a box in thebasement and dont feel like digging for them right now.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 17, 2005)

Great pics!


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 17, 2005)

Thanks, hey you got a yellow card too, were like brothers now


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 18, 2005)

There we go posting dumb again!

How long did it take you to find those pics in a magazine Hussars?

Im kidding....


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 18, 2005)

Who are the guys dressed in the desert rig in the background of the second pic?


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 18, 2005)

Those were guys based near Drumheller which is Pretty much desert over there.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 18, 2005)

What did you get the yellow card for Hussars? Come on guys, quit picking on him! He probably did serve!


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 18, 2005)

_Does_ serve. He's in the reserves.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 18, 2005)

Well, i want to thank everyone of you who have served again. Alder, Evanglider, NS, Hussars, Blackwatch, Les, and anyone else i forgot to mention, thank you.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 18, 2005)

Thank u -38... And ur welcome... However it may pain me to say this, the World needs more patriots like urself...


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 18, 2005)

Thanks. Thats the problem. Nobody my age appreciate the ones who go off to fight or go into service.


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 18, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> What did you get the yellow card for Hussars? Come on guys, quit picking on him! He probably did serve!



Ask Les he may have _colorful_ answer for yah


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## Medvedya (Nov 18, 2005)

Oh - I wouldn't be so pessimistic on that one. At events I've been to I've spoken to guys younger than yourself who's military history is seriously good to say the least, and are more than aware that it's no picnic.

Having siad that, depressingly - I think far too many people born of any age after the Fifties neither know or care about what soldiers of either now or at any time have sacrificed and endured.


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 18, 2005)

Is this directed at me? cuz I dont see how that relates to what I just posted


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## lesofprimus (Nov 18, 2005)

> Ask Les he may have colorful answer for yah


I did not give the yellow, therefore I cannot answer...


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 18, 2005)

Thats not what I meant but whatever


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## plan_D (Nov 19, 2005)

Basically Hussars is trying to make you say something along the lines; "He got the yellow card because he was being a stupid asshole, making dumbass comments against the SEALs and thus against all military servers from the U.S,". 

And Med, is it me or have you just "siad" something? But what you said is true and it's a shame. However, as long as there's people like me around...there's always some hope that I'll go postal and kill everyone. Wait ...I mean ... damn it! 

I haven't served in the forces ... but...I do serve the queen...*knuckle in mouth* ... and I'm a Colonel... 

You'll see what I mean tommorow when I get someone to take a picture.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 19, 2005)

Ill be waiting.


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## trackend (Nov 19, 2005)

So will I .
D your not going to pull one of your flankers on us, are you? sneaky herbert.


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## plan_D (Nov 19, 2005)

Look -


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 19, 2005)

YEP!


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## evangilder (Nov 19, 2005)

hehe -38 thanks for the call outs to the vets. I have to disagree about the younger people. I know quite a few that are quite patriotic and recognize the sacrifices of the previous generation. There are some slackers that I know too, but I think there were some of those in every generation. While I know that I have gotten on you, as have a few others about your anxiousness to grow up, I do think that you have a patriot's heart. Just make sure to get to have some fun and be a kid. Once these times go by, you can;t go back and be a kid later.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 19, 2005)

Unless you're me. 
Well alright, bad example.


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## plan_D (Nov 20, 2005)

I'm going to be a f*ckin' kid all my life, what you on about Eric? See, only a kid would write Colonel Chaos on his work jacket.


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## evangilder (Nov 20, 2005)

I mean the 'Have fun and enjoy with no responsibilities to worry about' kind of stuff. Hey, we all have some kid in us. What I meant is like those days when my only worry was what if I didn't get a GI Joe with Kung Fu grip. It is quite different when you have a mortgage, car payments and kids. I am not complaining, but life was definitely more simple then.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 20, 2005)

That life is what I dont want to get to yet.


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## evangilder (Nov 20, 2005)

Good, just enjoy it now and have a blast.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 20, 2005)

Exactly, think about being a kid now and a soldier later.


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## plan_D (Nov 20, 2005)

I wonder if I have kids...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 20, 2005)

God help us if you do.....


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 20, 2005)

dada!!!


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## plan_D (Nov 20, 2005)

d[evil] spawn...


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## lesofprimus (Nov 20, 2005)

Im sure that if u have some brats running around pD, that they're wearing tiny Doc Martins and drinking vodka from a bottle...


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## plan_D (Nov 20, 2005)

Awww ...I can only imagine their first words.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 20, 2005)

Wherever they are, Im sure their mothers have severely bruised shins from all the kicking...


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## plan_D (Nov 20, 2005)

Knowing some of my drunken mistakes, their mothers shins have probably collapsed from the weight.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 20, 2005)

OH boy!


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## plan_D (Nov 20, 2005)

That's what she said...


----------



## lesofprimus (Nov 20, 2005)

Hey, I found a couple of pics of ur "former" gal pals pD... All I did was search on Google for planD's Whale Watching Club...


----------



## plan_D (Nov 20, 2005)

Doin' them was like having a five some...there really is that much woman involved.


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## pbfoot (Nov 20, 2005)

if you look close at those women the harpoon scars are visible


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 20, 2005)

Oh my god that is just ing. I am sorry but at a certain point you have to say "I need to lose some weight, maybe I dont need that cheese burger today!"


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## plan_D (Nov 20, 2005)

When I was leaving McDonalds once this fat lass walked in and I had to say (and did say), "I think you've had enough love," right at her. Oh man ...I couldn't stop laughing for DAYS!


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 20, 2005)

"Yeah, I'll have three Big Mac combos, four hot fudge sundaes, and a diet Coke."


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 20, 2005)

I know they always do that. They order up the whole damn restaurant and then they order a diet drink, like that is going to help them. That is there way of justifying to themselves that they are on a "diet"!


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 20, 2005)

Exactly.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 20, 2005)

I see it quite a bit on my post, among the military wifes.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 20, 2005)

McDonalds: The key recipe to a fat disaster. Its one thing that America shouldnt have built. I hate it so much i never eat there.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 20, 2005)

I rarely eat there. I dont like fast food period though.


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## plan_D (Nov 20, 2005)

It doesn't bother me. I eat there quite often, it's handy because it's on my route to work so it's nice to just walk in buy crap, and eat the crap before getting to work.


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## trackend (Nov 21, 2005)

I can honestly say the only thing I have ever had out of a McDonalds is a milk shake.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 22, 2005)

FAKE Milkshakes.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 22, 2005)

Fakeshakes. 
They're actually kinda tasty. I don't eat there much, as I agree that the food is relative garbage, but once in a while I'll order a sundae or shake from there. Every once in a blue moon I'll have a Quarter Pounder too.


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## evangilder (Nov 22, 2005)

I have a quarter pounder once in a great while (about 4 months or so) for a couple of reasons. One is to remind me how nasty the food it, and two because I need an oil change!


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 22, 2005)

The last thing I had in there was one of their Deli sandwiches, because I had heard they tasted good. The thing is it had probably been reheated all day and the lettuce was like a wet crisp, the chicken was cold, the mayo was runny and the bread half stale. NEVER again.


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## evangilder (Nov 22, 2005)

Gee, that sounds so appetizing!  McDonald's food, there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 23, 2005)

Hey, nice sig CC!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 23, 2005)

Like I said I rarely eat Fast Food. The only time I will eat it is if I fly someplace and that is all they have to eat.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 23, 2005)

I like Subway. Its really good and nutricious. I just ate there and i loved it!


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 23, 2005)

I like Subway too. I usually get the sweet onion chicken teriyaki sub.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 23, 2005)

You think its nutricious. Go make a real sandwich, that is nutricious. Subway is about as un nutritious as a sandwich can get. It is still better than Burgerking or Mickie D's though.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 23, 2005)

Yep...


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 25, 2005)

> Go make a real sandwich, that is nutricious.



Well, i always make real sandwichs for school. I get tired off them alot! I would like to eat MREs instead off sandwichs everyday.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 25, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> > Go make a real sandwich, that is nutricious.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, i always make real sandwichs for school. I get tired off them alot! I would like to eat MREs instead off sandwichs everyday.



Say that after 30 days


----------



## lesofprimus (Nov 25, 2005)

> I would like to eat MREs instead off sandwichs everyday.


You are absolutely out of ur fucking mind to say that...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 25, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> > Go make a real sandwich, that is nutricious.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, i always make real sandwichs for school. I get tired off them alot! I would like to eat MREs instead off sandwichs everyday.



You obviously have not actually ate a real MRE. They taste like shit! The only thing they are good for is getting you through the day. Take it from someone who had to eat atleast one a day for a year. Man you really are confused.


----------



## Medvedya (Nov 25, 2005)

Oh my word - that's gotta be kept as a quote!


----------



## cheddar cheese (Nov 25, 2005)

Haha  The Rat packs ive had are sick, doesnt make for good eating...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 25, 2005)

They dont. They do have the right amount of calories to get you through the day and you can survive off of them but they taste like shit and I would not recommend them to anyone. I dont care how much you want to be in the army, you are out of your right mind to say you would rather eat MRE's than sandwiches. P38 Pilot ask anyone whos in the army and they will tell you that.


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## evangilder (Nov 25, 2005)

Or the USAF, USMC or USN. MREs are ing. You can live on them, but they are not something I would prefer to sustain me. Blech! 

I remember one op, I snuck in a bunch of PB&J sandwiches. I was the hero of the op and I wouldn't doubt that I could have sold one for $20. It wasn't worth selling them to me though. Seeing the guys enjoy something other than a bag-nasty was enough for me.


----------



## plan_D (Nov 26, 2005)

There was nothin' wrong with 50s compo sausages though. My dad brough loads back from the Gulf - they were lovely!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 26, 2005)

evangilder said:


> I remember one op, I snuck in a bunch of PB&J sandwiches. I was the hero of the op and I wouldn't doubt that I could have sold one for $20. It wasn't worth selling them to me though. Seeing the guys enjoy something other than a bag-nasty was enough for me.



I did the same thing the last time we went to the field. I flew out a small footlocker with a camp stove. I also brought bread and peanut butter and jelly as well as soups and spam. Everytime I opened up my box people came wandering over. I should have set up shop and made some money.


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## evangilder (Nov 26, 2005)

Yep, you probably could have too.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 26, 2005)

Same thing normally goes with cigarettes also.


----------



## lesofprimus (Nov 26, 2005)

The one thing, well two things, that I carried with me, were granola bars and pop tarts.... I didnt like the bulk of an MRE...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 26, 2005)

Neither did I. I also took a lot of pop tarts and granola bars. Oh and dont forget the trail mix. Great for snacking on and the beef jerkey!


----------



## evangilder (Nov 26, 2005)

Those beef and cheese sticks that didn't require refrigeration were one of the things I carried, along with assorted nuts and M&Ms. I don't care much for trail mix, but will eat it if there's nothing else.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Nov 26, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> P38 Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > > Go make a real sandwich, that is nutricious.
> ...



Oh yes i freaking have!  I think they are freaking delicious!!! I especially like the Beef Stew or The Pork Rinds or the Spaghetti and meatballs! I always ate them whenever we went turkey hunting or when just traveling in the woods!


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## evangilder (Nov 27, 2005)

I guess there's one in every unit.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 27, 2005)

Huss may have something to say about this, but I've tried the Canadian equivalent of the MRE (I can't remember what we call them), and I didn't find them too bad. I don't know if I'd want to have to live on them everyday, but they weren't bad little meals really.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 27, 2005)

> I don't know if I'd want to have to live on them everyday


I would!


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## lesofprimus (Nov 27, 2005)

That's proof positive of 2 things....

First: You are absolutely out of ur mind..

Second: That you are DEFINATLY one hellova Redneck...


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 27, 2005)

Ours are horrid...The treacle pudding is solid, the paté is runny and the ham and cheese pasta is all gristly...the Boiled sweets are the only decent things, dont even have kendal mint cakes any more...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 27, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
> 
> 
> > P38 Pilot said:
> ...



They do not make Pork Rinds in real military MRE's.  

Second if you really think they are good, then you have no idea what good food is, or are just entirely insane.



evengilder said:


> I guess there's one in every unit.



Negative, there is not a single one in my unit that thinks the things taste remotely good. When we were in Kosovo we traded them for the German MRE's because they actually tasted like real food. In Iraq we only ate them because we did not want to starve.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 27, 2005)

I know but i LIKE the MREs. I could live off these things! I really like them and there are some pretty good ones that you find. If you ask me, their probably better than K Rations that they used to serve.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 27, 2005)

The best ones believe it or not were the old C Rats. MRE's are just more easy to use.

You are insane P38 to like them and be able to live off of them.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 27, 2005)

Yeah, sometimes i wonder if im war crazed myself. But hey live life to its fullest!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 27, 2005)

Okay.....


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 27, 2005)

Yeah. I like MREs. They are greatan i wont my eating them for a couple of years! Better than Cafeteria food....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 27, 2005)

You keep thinking that. I would trade it for cafeteria food anyday.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 27, 2005)

Yeah right. Our school has a crappy principal who cant even get money for decent food at our school. Our cafeteria so cheap the food is freezing when you get it and it tastes like crap!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 27, 2005)

What you just described is an MRE.


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 27, 2005)

> The best ones believe it or not were the old C Rats.



Bully beef, powderd eggs, can of Sardines, and Oatmeal paste? that is just dirty.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 28, 2005)

Was still better than the MRE's they put out today. You try eating the Captain Chicken whatever the hell they call it. Or the MRE eggs!


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## Maestro (Nov 28, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> Yeah right. Our school has a crappy principal who cant even get money for decent food at our school. Our cafeteria so cheap the food is freezing when you get it and it tastes like crap!



Do you know a single school cafeteria where food doesn't taste like crap ?

When I was at school, I rarely ate cafeteria's "home cooked food". The only things I boughts there were big companies products. (Peanuts, cookies, chocolate bars...) Generally, when I had to eat at school, I brought my lunch from home.


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## evangilder (Nov 28, 2005)

I actually did know a couple of guys that really did like the MREs. I don't know why though. We even had a guy that liked the MRE fruit cake (UGH!). He was the guy that normally carried the radio when I was in Airbase Defense School. He cracked a tooth on a cherry pit and skinny ole me got to carry that friggin radio.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 28, 2005)

That sucks that you had to carry the radio. The fruit cake was horrible!


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## evangilder (Nov 28, 2005)

I thik all of the "cakes" in MREs were godawful, but the fruitcake was the worst. That guy would trade darn near a whole MRE for one. But I will say the cocoa beverage powder was okay.


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 28, 2005)

funny


----------



## Medvedya (Nov 28, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Ours are horrid...The treacle pudding is solid, the paté is runny and the ham and cheese pasta is all gristly...the Boiled sweets are the only decent things, dont even have kendal mint cakes any more...



Actually I thought treacle tart was one of the few things that was okay.


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 28, 2005)

> We even had a guy that liked the MRE fruit cake (UGH!)


I love the Freeze dired fruit cakes! They are delicious! I also like the choclate bars they put in the MREs too!


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## Medvedya (Nov 28, 2005)

You know - I once read in Soldier of Fortune magazine that MRE's are made by hippies in a Peace Commune ouside of San Francisco.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 28, 2005)

Bastards! It all makes sense now. 




Seriously, I can't complain. Ours aren't bad anyway. What do _you_ think, Huss?


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 28, 2005)

As long as I get the box with Chicken Rice Casserole and the extra pack of smokes Ill be fine.


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## evangilder (Nov 29, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> > We even had a guy that liked the MRE fruit cake (UGH!)
> 
> 
> I love the Freeze dired fruit cakes! They are delicious! I also like the choclate bars they put in the MREs too!



Oh dear GOD! YUCK! And those damn chocolate bars have so much wax, I was looking for a wick. Seriously, man, you need to get out and taste some real food if you think that crap is good.


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 29, 2005)

I didnt know they let Fruitcakes in the Forces


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 29, 2005)

102first_hussars said:


> I didnt know they let Fruitcakes in the Forces


 They let _you_ in, didn't they?

AAAAAAHHHH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!! Ah, that was too clever!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 29, 2005)

I dont think they are freeze dried either, the fruit cakes. They are just processed like everything else in the MRE, and P38 you really are strange!


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## evangilder (Nov 29, 2005)

All those "cakes" are just compressed into a semi-edible blob. They aren't freeze-dried. They are kind of like dry dough.

Edit: Correction, the MRE cakes are _not_ freeze dried.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 29, 2005)

> Our school has a crappy principal who cant even get money for decent food at our school. Our cafeteria so cheap the food is freezing when you get it and it tastes like crap!


WELCOME TO ALABAMA!!!


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## lesofprimus (Nov 29, 2005)

MMMM, the Lemon-Poppy Seed Pound Cake.... Boy, my mouth is watering... NOT!


----------



## 102first_hussars (Nov 29, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> 102first_hussars said:
> 
> 
> > I didnt know they let Fruitcakes in the Forces
> ...



Comin from a Navy boy  whats that song from the VillagePeople oh yeah I remember

_Where can you find pleasure 
Search the world for treasure 
Learn science technology 
Where can you begin to make your dreams all come true 
On the land or on the sea 
Where can you learn to fly 
Play in sports and skin dive 
Study oceanography 
Sign of for the big band 
Or sit in the grandstand 
When your team and others meet 


In the navy 
Yes, you can sail the seven seas 
In the navy 
Yes, you can put your mind at ease 
In the navy 
Come on now, people, make a stand 
In the navy, in the navy 
Can't you see we need a hand 
In the navy 
Come on, protect the motherland 
In the navy 
Come on and join your fellow man 
In the navy 
Come on people, and make a stand 
In the navy, in the navy, in the navy (in the navy) 


They want you, they want you 
They want you as a new recruit 


If you like adventure 
Don't you wait to enter 
The recruiting office fast 
Don't you hesitate 
There is no need to wait 
They're signing up new seamen fast 
Maybe you are too young 
To join up today 
Bout don't you worry 'bout a thing 
For I'm sure there will be 
Always a good navy 
Protecting the land and sea 


In the navy 
Yes, you can sail the seven seas 
In the navy 
Yes, you can put your mind at ease 
In the navy 
Come on now, people, make a stand 
In the navy, in the navy 
Can't you see we need a hand 
In the navy 
Come on, protect the motherland 
In the navy 
Come on and join your fellow man 
In the navy 
Come on people, and make a stand 
In the navy, in the navy, in the navy (in the navy) 


They want you, they want you 
They want you as a new recruit 


Who me? 


They want you, they want you 
They want you as a new recruit 


But, but but I'm afraid of water. 
Hey, hey look 
Man, I get seasick even watchin' it on TV! 


They want you, they want you in the navy 


*Oh my goodness. 
What am I gonna do in a submarine? *

They want you, they want you in the navy_


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 29, 2005)

What's that one the RCR guys do about the PPCLI? You know, the one to the tune of the Mickey Mouse song? 

Something like: "M-I-C-K-E-Y PPCLI!" 


Cute, huh?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 29, 2005)

*SUBMARINE!!!* DID SOMEBODY SAY SUBMARINE!!!!

*I HATE THOSE FREGGIN THINGS!!!!*


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## Maestro (Nov 29, 2005)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hussars a _reservist_ ?

*THE GODDAMNED RESERVES*
(To sing on the music of : "My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean")

*Refrain :*
_Call out, call out
Call out the Goddamned reserves
Call out, call out
Call out the Goddamned reserves

Oh, regulars are happy in peacetime

Our freedom they're proud to preserve
But just let them get into trouble
They call out the Goddamned reserves

They truly love overseas stations
In Europe they're anxious to serve
But if it is Saigon or Korea
Then call out the Goddamned reserves

Fort Benning is filled with instructors
With medals and badge galore
They're surely our best combat leaders
Except when the country is at war_


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 30, 2005)

Haha


----------



## 102first_hussars (Nov 30, 2005)

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hussars a reservist ?



You catch on quick, no wait I posted this the day after


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 2, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> *SUBMARINE!!!* DID SOMEBODY SAY SUBMARINE!!!!
> 
> *I HATE THOSE FREGGIN THINGS!!!!*



I could not agree more!


----------



## Nonskimmer (Dec 2, 2005)

*sigh*


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 2, 2005)

LOL, sorry I just would not like being stuck in a steel toilet paper role surrounded by thousands of tons of water and no real way to get out. Plus I like fresh air and seeing the sun sets.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 2, 2005)




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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 2, 2005)

Good pic there!


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 2, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Good pic there!



Thanks Adler, just my opinion of a "good submarine."


----------



## Gnomey (Dec 2, 2005)

Good pic FBJ.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 2, 2005)

Could not agree more. I am sure though that all flyers think the same thing.


----------



## evangilder (Dec 2, 2005)

BOOM!


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## P38 Pilot (Dec 2, 2005)

*Ballad of the Green Beret*

_Fighting Soldiers from the Skies,
Fearless men, who jump and die!
Men who Mean, just what They say,
*The brave men of the Green Beret!*
Silver wings, upon their Chest,
These are men, America's Best!
One-Hundred men, will test Today,
Put on their Green
*When the Green Beret!*
Trained to live off Nature's Land,
Trained in Combat, hand-to-hand!
Men who fight, by Night and Day,
*Courage ticked, from The Green Beret!*
Silver Wings, upon their Chest!
These are men, America's Best!
One-Hundred Men, will test today,
*Put on their Green, when the Green Beret!*
Back at home a young wife waits,
Her Green Beret has meet his fate!
He has died for those oppressed!
Leaving her, this Last request,
Put Silver wings on my son's chest,
Make him one of America's best!
He'll be a man, they'll test one day,
*Have him when, The Green Beret!*
_

Thats my Favorite Army Song! Ballad of the Green Beret! My dad knew a Green Beret where he lived. Awesome story! Ill tell you guys later.


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## 102first_hussars (Dec 3, 2005)

Yeah I saw that movie too.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Dec 3, 2005)

Good movie. John Wayne was exelent! That was pretty cool how they air-lifted that Vietnamese General!


----------



## 102first_hussars (Dec 3, 2005)

John Wayne was an excellent Cowboy but a horrible Soldier.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Dec 3, 2005)

I dont know about that. He was very patriotic and seemed like a guy who might have been in the Texas National Guard.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 3, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> I dont know about that. He was very patriotic and seemed like a guy who might have been in the Texas National Guard.



He never served.....

Jimmy Stewart, Eddie Albert, Clark Gable, Gene Autry, Mel Brooks, Art Carney, Kirk Douglas, Charles Durning, Henry Fonda, Steve McQueen, and Charles Schultz all served in WW2


----------



## 102first_hussars (Dec 3, 2005)

Art Carney? I didnt think he was a WW2 vet I thought he served in Korea.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 3, 2005)

Art Carney - US Army. Carney went to Normandy in July of 1944 as a replacement to the 28th Division in position around St Lô. He was part of a 30 calibre machine gun squad. On 15 August 1944 he had just taken up his position and was hit in the right leg by mortar shrapnel. After receiving field treatment, he was sent back to Britain and then the US. He once said of his military career, "Never fired a shot and maybe never wanted to. I really cost the government money."

Check out this site:

http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/military/actors_in_wwii.html


----------



## P38 Pilot (Dec 3, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Art Carney - US Army. Carney went to Normandy in July of 1944 as a replacement to the *28th Division in position around St Lô.* He was part of a 30 calibre machine gun squad. On 15 August 1944 he had just taken up his position and was hit in the right leg by mortar shrapnel. After receiving field treatment, he was sent back to Britain and then the US. He once said of his military career, "Never fired a shot and maybe never wanted to. I really cost the government money."
> 
> Check out this site:
> 
> http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/military/actors_in_wwii.html



Is that the 28th Infantry because my great-uncle who died in WW2 was with the 28th. He also landed a few days with Normandy at St. Lo.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Dec 3, 2005)

> Jimmy Stewart


I knew that Jimmy Stuart was a B-17 Pilot.


> Henry Fonda


Fonda? You mean Jane Fonda's dad was a WWII vet??? I feel sorry for him that his daughter became a lefty pinko. What did he do in WWII? I would would like to know.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 3, 2005)

Fonda served for three years, initially as a Quartermaster 3rd Class on the destroyer USS Satterlee; he was later commissioned as a Lieutenant Junior Grade in Air Combat Intelligence in the Central Pacific and won a Presidential Citation and the Bronze Star.


----------



## evangilder (Dec 4, 2005)

Jack Palance went through the nose of a bomber in a crash, I can't remember if it was a B-17 or a 24. Because of that, his face had to be completely reconstructed.


----------



## 102first_hussars (Dec 4, 2005)

> Because of that, his face had to be completely reconstructed.



I know they did a horrible job too! I meen look at him now


----------



## Nonskimmer (Dec 4, 2005)

I don't know if anyone would care, but a few famous Canadians I can think of who did their part during WWII were guys like James Doohan (as many of you already know), Leslie Nielson, and Lorne Greene. Doohan was in the Royal Canadian Artillery and was at Juno Beach on D-Day, Nielson was an aerial gunner in the RCAF, and although he didn't serve in the military, Lorne Greene was the most recognized voice on CBC Radio during the war. He was the main newscaster giving the war news to the country. He was givin the handle "The voice of doom", due to his deep voice and the often grim news he would report.


----------



## evangilder (Dec 4, 2005)

Interesting. I didn't realize that Leslie Nielson was old enough to have served in WWII.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Dec 4, 2005)

I think he was just old enough. He joined at the tail end of the war. In fact, I don't think he quite made it overseas before the war ended. But still, he tried to do his part.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 4, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> Good movie. John Wayne was exelent! That was pretty cool how they air-lifted that Vietnamese General!



While John Wayne was a good classic movie Actor he was horrible in that movie. He had no emotion what so ever at all. I remember the scene where a soldier gets wounded and John Wayne in a complete monotonal voice with no emotions goes "Someone get this man a medic." In real life he would have screamed "MEDIC, MEDIC, WE HAVE A MAN DOWN, GET A MEDIC!" In combat there is emotion, trust me I know.


----------



## 102first_hussars (Dec 4, 2005)

N.S said


> Lorne Greene was givin the handle "The voice of doom



Because of his countdown before the Creeping Barrages hit, that is just so cool how it starts Three....two...................................ONE! bang boom Kaboom, kshhhh powwww!!!!!!!! Fee Fi Fo Fum Sweet!!!! ( then they fing they didt hit a godamm thing


----------



## P38 Pilot (Dec 5, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> P38 Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Good movie. John Wayne was exelent! That was pretty cool how they air-lifted that Vietnamese General!
> ...



You know i actually remember that part. Its like he didnt even care. But i think he did a good job in _Sands of Iwo Jima._ He had some emotion and felt bad when the Marines he knew got killed.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 6, 2005)

I think he had the same emotion in all of his war movies. He was better suited for westerns than war movies.


----------



## evangilder (Dec 6, 2005)

Me too, Adler


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 6, 2005)

That might make a good thread. The best war movie actors.


----------



## v2 (Dec 6, 2005)

Me ( left ) and my friend in 1982:








with my second friend:






and my platoon...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 6, 2005)

I wanna be with that platoon but that picture is going to have to be removed.


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 6, 2005)

Done...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 6, 2005)

I tried to do it, but it would not let me for some reason.


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## v2 (Dec 7, 2005)

Hmmm... it was a very nice platoon...


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 7, 2005)

If it was bigger it would have been... Deleted as well hehe...


----------



## Maestro (Dec 7, 2005)

Too bad I missed that picture... I wonder what was on it that deserved to be deleted.


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## lesofprimus (Dec 7, 2005)

5 naked chicks on a tank...


----------



## Maestro (Dec 7, 2005)

Oh...


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 8, 2005)

Hey v2, where were those photos taken? (what base were you at?)


----------



## v2 (Dec 8, 2005)

Hmmm, if you would like to see it ask Adler and Les... I've got it in my galery...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 9, 2005)

No the picture can not be posted here. This is not a porn site or adult site. People of all ages post here. We do not need to be labeled as an adult site. If you wish to see the photo he can send it to you in a pm.


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## v2 (Dec 9, 2005)

Yes Sir !  but I think they are too young....


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 9, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Hey v2, where were those photos taken? (what base were you at?)



This is all funny - I was acutally talking about the one's shown here, not the ones removed!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 9, 2005)

v2 said:


> Yes Sir !  but I think they are too young....



Who? Maestro? He is not as young as you think.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Dec 9, 2005)

Hmm. You guys look like Cuban soldiers. But your Polish.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 9, 2005)

HMMMM? They dont look anything like Cuban Soldiers.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Dec 9, 2005)

They do look _vaguely_ like Cuban soldiers, but they're definitely Polish.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 9, 2005)

In anything because there uniforms are green, but then in that case until the early 1980's our soldiers looked Cuban too then....


----------



## Nonskimmer (Dec 9, 2005)

It's the cap, the shoulder boards, things like that. Like I said, it's only a vague resemblance. By the same token, American and Canadian troops look very, very similar too. Almost identical in fact. The camo pattern is a bit different, but the combat uniform looks almost the same.

Also, the guy on the right looks like he could pass for Cuban.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 9, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> It's the cap, the shoulder boards, things like that. Like I said, it's only a vague resemblance. By the same token, American and Canadian troops look very, very similar too. Almost identical in fact. The camo pattern is a bit different, but the combat uniform looks almost the same.
> 
> Also, the guy on the right looks like he could pass for Cuban.



I myself just dont see it, ohwell..... 8)


----------



## P38 Pilot (Dec 10, 2005)

> Also, the guy on the right looks like he could pass for Cuban.



Yeah. It does look very Cuban.


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 10, 2005)

No it doesnt, but could be mistaken for one in a laymans eyes...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 11, 2005)

Yeap there you go, was going to say the same thing. Deffinatly not very Cuban.


----------



## v2 (Dec 11, 2005)

You are jesters, boys...


----------



## P38 Pilot (Dec 29, 2005)

Ok....


----------



## mkloby (Sep 10, 2006)

Here's a couple from the basic school and one in flight school.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2006)

Cool nice pics.

I am going to have to make a tribute thread with pics of me in my uniform and what not as I am getting out soon.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Sep 10, 2006)

Very Cool MK!! Are you flying the T-34C?


----------



## mkloby (Sep 10, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Very Cool MK!! Are you flying the T-34C?



Yup, sure am. Flying the T-34C out of North Whiting in Florida. It sure is a fun little plane - kinda makes me wish I was around in WWII days with all the props... there's definitely something... primordial... flying high performance prop driven aircraft. That puppy only as 550shp, so makes me wonder what flying a beast w/ 2000+ hp would be like...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Sep 10, 2006)

I've flown T-34As and Bs - it must be a hoot. I was flying out of Edwards AFB in their aeroclub T-34 when the NASA C came up along side of me, waved and left me in the dust! 550 hp vs. 225hp?!?!

Best of luck in your flight training. I read in another post you're hoping for helos (Hueys). Good ole bird, I worked on a few as a civilian...


----------



## evangilder (Sep 11, 2006)

Good stuff. Welcome aboard.


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## davparlr (Sep 11, 2006)

mkloby said:


> Yup, sure am. Flying the T-34C out of North Whiting in Florida. It sure is a fun little plane - kinda makes me wish I was around in WWII days with all the props... there's definitely something... primordial... flying high performance prop driven aircraft. That puppy only as 550shp, so makes me wonder what flying a beast w/ 2000+ hp would be like...



Is the Oyster Bar still open on Navy Blvd? My childhood home is about a mile from the back entrance to the Naval Air Station.


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## davparlr (Sep 11, 2006)

Here's a couple from ancient archives.


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 11, 2006)

Very cool Dave, BTW I have (and use) the same helmet!!


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## mkloby (Sep 12, 2006)

davparlr said:


> Is the Oyster Bar still open on Navy Blvd? My childhood home is about a mile from the back entrance to the Naval Air Station.



You know, I'm not a very big fan of sea food... in fact I hate it. I see a billboard for one on the corner of garden and barrancas... maybe that one's it. I can't imagine growing up here... it's just way too hot!


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## davparlr (Sep 12, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Very cool Dave, BTW I have (and use) the same helmet!!


I imagine that the government has a few of those laying around.


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## davparlr (Sep 12, 2006)

mkloby said:


> You know, I'm not a very big fan of sea food... in fact I hate it. I see a billboard for one on the corner of garden and barrancas... maybe that one's it. I can't imagine growing up here... it's just way too hot!


And we didn't have air conditioning!! Actually, it was a great place to live. When I was growing up there was no development on the keys and we had a jeep so we could run the dunes anytime we wanted to. Also, the beaches are beautiful. When it got hot, we went to the beach. Many memories of parties on the gulf. In addition, we loved sea food, fried shrimp, crab gumbo, fried mullet, oysters (I didn't care for this),flounder, mmm, I'm getting hungry. Wonderful boating and skiing, lousy surfing.

It is hot and humid however and hurricanes can make life exciting. When I was in pilot training, I flew my cross country to Pensacola. It was a big ego trip as I taxied my afterburning T-38 past the pregnant T-2s of the Navy. I popped open the canopy and tried to inhale the 100% humidity of Pensacola and said"I home!" I guess the heat and humidity gets into your blood.

Have a great tour. I am sure you have airconditioned quarters and classrooms. Remember, a lot of aviators went there without it and survived. The place has great tradition and the Naval Air Museum is one of the best in the nation and probably the world.

P.S. When I was growing up I had to compete with you guys from the Navy and Marine pilot training program for dates! Tough competition. My sister said she had never met a bad looking Naval aviator, the Marines, on the other hand... (just kidding! I'm sure she meant the Marines, too  ).


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 12, 2006)

davparlr said:


> I imagine that the government has a few of those laying around.


YEP! Actually mine came from an ROC pilot.


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## davparlr (Sep 12, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> YEP! Actually mine came from an ROC pilot.


That picture of me was made in 1970. Those helmets have been around for quite some time.


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## mkloby (Sep 12, 2006)

davparlr said:


> I imagine that the government has a few of those laying around.



The gov't has a few of EVERYTHING laying around. There's apparently still a wharehouse somewhere filled with those black and green monitors circa 1980 that DOD just won't stop using. When I was saw N Whiting's tower equip I was looking for vacuum tubes!

Did you have that HUGE industrial sized kneeboard that they issue in flight school that's about 4" high and doubles as a sapi plate


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## davparlr (Sep 14, 2006)

mkloby said:


> The gov't has a few of EVERYTHING laying around. There's apparently still a wharehouse somewhere filled with those black and green monitors circa 1980 that DOD just won't stop using. When I was saw N Whiting's tower equip I was looking for vacuum tubes!
> 
> Did you have that HUGE industrial sized kneeboard that they issue in flight school that's about 4" high and doubles as a sapi plate



Yep! I'd clean forgotten about that. The Navy tends to hang onto things more than the AF, probably due to less funding. When I entered the service in 69, they were still flying F9Fs as trainers and R5Ds as transportation.


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 14, 2006)

davparlr said:


> Yep! I'd clean forgotten about that. The Navy tends to hang onto things more than the AF, probably due to less funding. When I entered the service in 69, they were still flying F9Fs as trainers and R5Ds as transportation.


When i first went into the USNR they were phasing out the last of the recips. I was an Aviation Machinist Mate (AD) and initally had the rate of an "ADR" (R for recip).


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 14, 2006)

Those black and green monitors are still in use in the Army. We just finally got rid of them for our aircraft lap tops about 3 years ago.


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## evangilder (Sep 15, 2006)

Damn, thanks for making me feel old. I remember when those monitors were new!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 15, 2006)




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## P38 Pilot (Sep 17, 2006)

Very cool pics MK. I especially like the one of you manning that .50 caliber. Ive got another question: Are marines the only ones using the woodland ACUs right now?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2006)

Yes they are the only ones that use the woodland colors (if you wanna call it that atleast), except for the Navy I think. They use the same stuff as the Marines pretty much when it comes to BDU/ACU. The Army uses the same kind of pattern but with different colors. Personally I dont like the Army ACU. Never bought them and never will.


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## davparlr (Sep 17, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> When i first went into the USNR they were phasing out the last of the recips. I was an Aviation Machinist Mate (AD) and initally had the rate of an "ADR" (R for recip).



What was the last Navy recip, the S-2, T-34? When I joined the AF, they had quite a few, including T-29, C-121, C-131, C-7, C-123, maybe A-1s. The Guard had C-124s and KC-97s. I think that was about all.


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 17, 2006)

davparlr said:


> What was the last Navy recip, the S-2, T-34? When I joined the AF, they had quite a few, including T-29, C-121, C-131, C-7, C-123, maybe A-1s. The Guard had C-124s and KC-97s. I think that was about all.


I saw an S-2 at Barbers point in 1998. I was told it was being used as a hack and was the last recip in the USN. I went in the reserve in 96 I was also told the last of the C-131s (T-29) were going away (or gone). All the T-34s used by the Navy were "C" models.


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## davparlr (Sep 18, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> I saw an S-2 at Barbers point in 1998. I was told it was being used as a hack and was the last recip in the USN. I went in the reserve in 96 I was also told the last of the C-131s (T-29) were going away (or gone). All the T-34s used by the Navy were "C" models.



I remember flying in a C-131 from Mildenhall (?) England to Frankfurt Ger. with my wife as we were on vacation flying Airlift Command standby. That trip was an adventure! That was about 1972.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 18, 2006)

Damn now they put you on a Lear Jet! or C-21.


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## mkloby (Sep 19, 2006)

P38 Pilot said:


> Very cool pics MK. I especially like the one of you manning that .50 caliber. Ive got another question: Are marines the only ones using the woodland ACUs right now?



P-38 I had to look up ACU I had no idea what it stood for... then I found out why... Army Combat Uniform! We have woodland and desert digital cammies - our old woodlands and deserts are completely phased out... along with the old black polished boots...

The Air Force and Navy both still wear old woodlands, although I believe both are trying to find a replacement. I've seen some crazy AF possibilities - one being this blue-gray tiger striped uniform that looked like some hawaiian party garb. They canned that uniform though, I believe.

Army guys can speak better than I can, but I believe their new uniform is supposed to double as a woodland/desert set - being the more subdued green color to effectively work in both environments. Not sure how effective they'll work in the field as I've never seen them. I will say this though, our new digital cammies work MUCH better than the old woodlands. They're very effective, despite what some detractors of the uniform say.

Fun Fact(maybe a fact) - Marine Times reported that the Army came very close to flat out adopting the USMC digis as their new uniform, but instead went with the uniform they now have.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 20, 2006)

mkloby said:


> The Air Force and Navy both still wear old woodlands, although I believe both are trying to find a replacement. I've seen some crazy AF possibilities - one being this blue-gray tiger striped uniform that looked like some hawaiian party garb. They canned that uniform though, I believe.



Nope they are still going to that tiger stripe with blue uniform.



mkloby said:


> Army guys can speak better than I can, but I believe their new uniform is supposed to double as a woodland/desert set - being the more subdued green color to effectively work in both environments. Not sure how effective they'll work in the field as I've never seen them.



The new ACU work really well in the desert, atleast so I am told. When we were in the desert we were still issued the DCU (Desert Combat Uniform) which was like the regular woodland uniform but with desert colors. In the desert the ACU is very well, because if you actually seen the Iraqi desert it is not just sand, but rather mostly dried dirt with patches of green. In the distance it is actually harder to see the ACU than the DCU. 

As for in a non desert environment I can not speak for the ACU. I dont think it will be very good, atleast not in the environment like Europe and probably not for jungle type environments.

The Army gave us a wear out date for the woodland BDUs for October 2008 but we have to have one pair by October 2006. All units going to Afganistan or Iraq get issued the ACU and new soldiers going through Basic Training are issued them.

I never bought the ACU because well I only have 2 more days in the Army left.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 22, 2006)

Cool. Thanks for the info guys. Wish the Army would start using the ACU camo that the Marines have...


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## mkloby (Sep 23, 2006)

P38 Pilot said:


> Cool. Thanks for the info guys. Wish the Army would start using the ACU camo that the Marines have...




P38 - that's the most intelligent thing you've said! Now we just need to get you to start thinking about your future in the USMC, not the Army  

The one thing about the army's new cammies is how the front pockets are slanted on an angle like ours, but their name tapes are parallel to the deck... looks so awkward to me... maybe just because I'm used to ours though.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2006)

mkloby said:


> P38 - that's the most intelligent thing you've said! Now we just need to get you to start thinking about your future in the USMC, not the Army



Dont do it P38. They will brain wash you!


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## k9kiwi (Sep 29, 2006)

A LONG time ago in a far away place.

23 years ago, damn where did they go.

RNZAF Police Dog Unit.

To put it in perspective, I am 6 foot 2 inches in my stockings.

The average German Shepard weighs around 95 pounds.

The bad boy in the photos with me weighed 120 pounds and could put his front paws on my shoulders and lick me in the face

In other words "Your worst nightmare" if he got p1ssed at you.

No 1 manwork and tracking team for the unit.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 30, 2006)

I grew up for many many years with German Sheppards in my house.... Awesome dogs and smart as hell...


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## davparlr (Sep 30, 2006)

k9kiwi said:


> A LONG time ago in a far away place.
> 
> 23 years ago, damn where did they go.
> 
> ...



Boy, those are sure ugly dudes you work with! Dogs are good looking, though.


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## k9kiwi (Sep 30, 2006)

Les.

The Unit photo in Full Dress is easy to remember as to when it was taken.

Graduation Day for the re activation of the Unit after a 5 year hiatus.

Also the Greenpeace Ship (Rainbow Warrior) was sunk in the early hours of that day in Auckland harbour.

My Father, Ex Army, and then still Detective Senior Sergeant with the NZ Police (Retired as SNCO of the Police after 29 years) was the Media Liason Officer for the Police.

Needless to say, a great friend and mentor never made it to my graduation.

However the drinks that went down range about 4 weeks later were a blinder.  

That day was the finish of 18 months damn hard work. 14 of them on courses of one nature or another. Each had a tests at least once a week. Each test had a pass mark of 80 %. One failure below 70 % was enough to kiss it all goodbye, no second chances.

The only variation from that rule was practical testing with the dogs, even dogs have bad days and there is just nothing you can do about it.

People talk to me now about being under pressure at their work, in an office and I just about p!ss myself laughing.


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## P38 Pilot (Oct 1, 2006)

mkloby said:


> P38 - that's the most intelligent thing you've said! Now we just need to get you to start thinking about your future in the USMC, not the Army
> 
> The one thing about the army's new cammies is how the front pockets are slanted on an angle like ours, but their name tapes are parallel to the deck... looks so awkward to me... maybe just because I'm used to ours though.



Sorry, Army all the way!

I like how the Army's ACUs are designed, I just wish the Army had a good woodland pattern. But, I like the ACUs and wish we could get some In JROTC. (Army JROTC by the way. )


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 3, 2006)

JROTC will basically allways have hand me downs from the Army. Some day you sould get ACUs then.


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## P38 Pilot (Oct 6, 2006)

Yeah. I still like the BDUs but the ACUs look awesome! I plan on going to basic training when I turn 17.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 7, 2006)

You have fun with that. Are you parents going to allow you to go. You cant go with out there permission until you are 18.


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## ndicki (Oct 8, 2006)

Just to chuck in my two-pennyworth - ACUs are this US digital camouflage, right? Supposed to be the all-terrains solution to not being seen? 

Sorry, but I don't believe it! I've tried out a variety of camo types in a variety of situations, and not one is going to work well under all conditions.

The best I've found for Europe and 'wet' tropical zones is British DPM - also used by New Zealand, so look at K9Kiwi's pics if you want to see more - although the early stuff had a sand coloured base which was too pale at night. Modern DPM is slightly darker, and avoids this. DPM has the edge because of the relatively high contrasts between the colours - more so than US Woodland or French CE - and the slightly smaller size of the blotches, again compared to the above. It is, as its name states, disruptive, not mimetic. French 'old pattern' lizard/tiger cam can be useful in wet tropical areas, but I prefer DPM for it's superior disruptive ability.

German cam, on the other hand, is mimetic, and from a distance, it loses the ability to break up outlines and shapes because of the excessive similarity between the tones of the colours. Also, as it is essentially green-based, it is OK for Northern Europe, but not brilliant in, say, Greece. ACUs risk falling into the same trap, even though the base colour seems to be dusty earth, rather than green. Compare with East German raindrop cam - they might as well never have bothered.

For grasslands, veldt, etc, Rhodesian cam is miles ahead of anybody else's, although again, you have to take care at night if you've washed it too often! Here I have no idea how it behaves in night vision/infra-red, etc, as I didn't have the chance to test it.

For desert cam, it all depends on what the desert looks like! In desert as in North Africa (Rommel's home), the same cam will not work as in, say Afghanistan, or Iraq. For North Africa, it's my guess that old KD (Khaki Drill, ie, traditional sand coloured, single-colour cotton uniform) will work as well as anything!

If you want my opinion, stay with two or three different types. Just make sure stocks are on hand when needed...


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## evangilder (Oct 8, 2006)

Obviously one camouflage doesn't do it all, that is why there are different ones. Digital camouflage comes in several different color schemes. 

The official ACU is like the old utility uniform, and even the Army says it isn't 100% for all locations, but a good balance for all. My old utility uniform issued in basic was one color, olive drab. Might work ok in Europe, but obviously not for the Middle East or Arctic conditions. This will give the forces a utility uniform that can be used in different theaters with some degree of effectiveness. Besides, NO camouflage makes you invisible anyway.


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## P38 Pilot (Oct 8, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> You have fun with that. Are you parents going to allow you to go. You cant go with out there permission until you are 18.



They wont allow me to go Active Duty, but would allow me to go National Guard or Reserves. I might go National Guard.


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## ndicki (Oct 8, 2006)

Evanglider, no camouflage makes you 100% invisible, but I've had people walk past me only ten feet away and not see me, when there was no serious cover other than longish grass, etc! With a uniform that does not break up your shape well enough, that does not happen - so back to my comment about colout similarities being dangerous.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 8, 2006)

ndicki said:


> Just to chuck in my two-pennyworth - ACUs are this US digital camouflage, right? Supposed to be the all-terrains solution to not being seen?



No but it is good for the areas that we are fighting in the most. Obviously it is not that good for environments like Europe. 



ndicki said:


> German cam, on the other hand, is mimetic, and from a distance, it loses the ability to break up outlines and shapes because of the excessive similarity between the tones of the colours. Also, as it is essentially green-based, it is OK for Northern Europe, but not brilliant in, say, Greece. ACUs risk falling into the same trap, even though the base colour seems to be dusty earth, rather than green. Compare with East German raindrop cam - they might as well never have bothered.



It is actually more brown based than green. I have several pairs that I traded my uniforms with German soldiers for.

As for environments like Greece and other rocky areas such as Afganistan the German uniform is even more brown based with tan and other lighter brown colors. I have included a picture of the german tropical/desert uniform.



ndicki said:


> For desert cam, it all depends on what the desert looks like! In desert as in North Africa (Rommel's home), the same cam will not work as in, say Afghanistan, or Iraq. For North Africa, it's my guess that old KD (Khaki Drill, ie, traditional sand coloured, single-colour cotton uniform) will work as well as anything!



For Iraq the new US ACU has been found to be the best type there is. The desert in Iraq is not just brown but light shades of grey and green the new ACU actually allows you to blend in the best there. Studies were done and found that to be the best combination.

That is why the Army went to that pattern because that is where we are fighting now and where future conflicts are likely to occur.



ndicki said:


> If you want my opinion, stay with two or three different types. Just make sure stocks are on hand when needed...



Now that I agree with. I had several different uniforms. I had my woodland BDU's, my DCUs (Desert Combat Uniform), my Green Nomex Flight Suit, my woodland ABDUs (Aviation BDU's/basically a 2 piece flight suit that looks like BDUs but made out of Nomex for use with flight crews), and my Brown desert Flight Suit.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 8, 2006)

Besides the US Army ACUs are going to phased out soon anyhow. I cant remember the name of the new army system that is coming out but it is allready being combat tested in Iraq and Afganistan by Spec Op troops and it is a new uniform that heats you when it is cold, cools you down when it is hot, is water proof and changes colors based off of your surroundings.

This is supposed to be fielded within the next 5 to 10 years.


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## k9kiwi (Oct 9, 2006)

Blurry Ell.

I suppose it goes pee-pee for you too.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 9, 2006)

Would not surprise me.

It has built in armoured protection and is very light weight. The helmet has complete coverage of the face and you can communicate with your other soldiers and commanders. It also has built in GPS and maps built into the visor. 

It is being tested as we speek. They demonstrated it at the Land Combat Expo over here at one of our military posts in Germany.


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## mkloby (Oct 9, 2006)

I can't imagine how much that uniform must cost to manufacture on large scale. I haven't even heard of that uniform yet. They plan on outfitting troops army wide with it, or just spec ops? I just wish the army's new digis had the name tapes slanted and aligned with the pockets, not parallel to the deck.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 9, 2006)

It is called the Future Warrior system. It is currently being tested though by Spec Ops and will by 2025 be in use Army wide. I saw it at the Army's Land Combat Expo in Heidelberg, Germany. It is a NATO Expo held each year at the US Army military post there.

Here is an artical on it:

Jul 30 2004
WASHINGTON -- The Army's future soldier will resemble something out of a science fiction movie, members of Congress witnessed at a demonstration on Capitol Hill July 23. 
The newest concepts for lightweight, lethal uniform systems to be worn by the future soldiers in battle were displayed at the Russell Senate Building here. 

Two uniform systems are under development. The Future Force Warrior system will be available for fielding to soldiers in 2010. The Vision 2020 Future Warrior system, which will follow on the concept of the 2010 Future Force Warrior system, is scheduled to be ready 10 years later. 

The two new uniform systems are being developed under the Future Combat System Program. "This Army initiative will develop and demonstrate revolutionary capabilities for the future soldiers in battle," said Jean-Louis "Dutch" DeGay, a Soldier Systems Center representative. 

The new systems include a weapon, head-to-toe individual protection, onboard computer network, soldier-worn power sources, and enhanced human performance. 

"The Future Force Warrior will be a responsive and formidable member of an invincible battle space team," DeGay explained, describing the system scheduled to be fielded by 2010. 

"The 2010 Future Force Warrior system will meet the more immediate, short-term demands of our fighting warriors in the battle space, while the 2020 model will remind you of an ominous creature out of a science fiction movie," DeGay said. He added that the system will leverage all the technologies and lessons learned from Afghanistan and Iraq. 

Soldiers deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq carry large amounts of external weight, often 120 pounds or more, to be battle-ready. DeGay said the new uniform system -- from head to toe -- weighs 50 pounds. 

The body armor of the new uniforms will absorb the shock of a bullet much better than current bulletproof vests. "The hard body armor has been stood off of the body by 2½ to 3 inches, so when the soldier is shot, the force is more evenly distributed to decrease injuries such as broken ribs," DeGay described. 

Soldiers will be able to chat online with each other while they are walking down a jungle trail. The new system has the ability for each soldier to be tied into tactical local and wide-area networks with an onboard computer that sits at the base of the soldier's back. "We essentially call the 2010 soldier an 'F- 16 on legs' because it gives the soldier the same capabilities as they would normally have on aircraft and other platforms," DeGay explained. The F-16 is an Air Force fighter jet. 

Soldiers will also be able to share data with vehicles, aircraft and other individual soldiers. "If an Apache helicopter was deployed forward and recorded real-time video of the enemy, the helicopter can send the video back to an individual soldier to observe," he said, with obvious enthusiasm and excitement for the new uniform system. 

As has been seen in science-fiction movies, a dropdown piece of eyewear from the helmet allows the soldier to see a 17-inch computer screen displaying anything relayed to the soldier. "This eyewear device is see-through, so it hangs out in space," DeGay said. This allows soldiers to take in all supporting data while keeping both hands on their weapons. 

Soldiers wearing the new system will have no need for an external microphone to communicate. "The helmet has sensors that register vibrations of the cranial cavity so I don't have to have a microphone in my mouth. That allows the soldier to control the entire computer via voice-activation," DeGay explained. Soldiers will be able to cycle through onboard menus via their eyewear device. 

The onboard computer will monitor soldiers' overall physiological picture of how they are performing in the battle zone. "Warrior Physiological Status Monitoring System gives the soldier's body core temperature, skin temperature, heart rate, whether the soldier is standing or prone, and how much water the soldier has drunk," DeGay said.
A medic, who can be miles away, will now be able to diagnose and treat a soldier who is about to have sunstroke, without even physically seeing the soldier. "So a medic can see how the soldier's core body temperature is rising (and) heart rate is falling, and the soldier then knows to go directly to the medic for treatment," DeGay said. "The computer will drop down a map to direct the soldier where to find the medic for help." 
He pointed out that with the new system commanders will be able to consider each soldier, aircraft and vehicle as part of a node of a tactical network that shares data with each other, sending and receiving data inside the battle space. 

The second uniform system, the Vision 2020 Future Warrior concept, will follow the 2010 Future Force Warrior with more advanced nanotechnology. 

Nanotechnology deals with the creation of incredibly small materials, devices or systems with a scaled-down size of 100 nanometers or less. A nanometer is a metric measurement equivalent to one billionth of a meter. 
"If we were in Detroit, the 2020 Future Warrior system would be the concept car. It leverages a lot of the nano-work being done by the Massachusetts Institute for Technology," DeGay said, noting the Army just awarded MIT a five- year, $50 million program to establish the Institute for Soldier Nanotechnologies. 

Think about a good action movie that shows an average person walking down a street with a nice designer suit. All of a sudden, gunshots are heard and just before a bullet hits this person, his soft fabric suit transforms into an incredible display of alien armor that deflects bullets. If Natick engineers are successful, this movie will become a reality in the future U.S. Army. 

"What we hope to gain from this program is body armor that wears like a traditional textile impregnated with nanomachines connected to an onboard computer, DeGay explained. "So when you shoot a round into the uniform system, it's normally pliable until it senses the strike of a round -- it becomes rigid, defeats the strike of the round and becomes soft again." 

A shortcoming of traditional body armor is that it can only absorb so many strikes from machine-gun rounds. "When you have a uniform with this new nanotechnology, it can absorb unlimited numbers of machine-gun rounds," DeGay pointed out. 

Another potential development is inserting "nanomuscle fibers" that can actually simulate muscles, giving soldiers more strength. Fabric is impregnated with nanomachines that create the same weight, lift and feel as a muscle. "So I coat the outside of the armor with a nanomuscle fiber that gives me 25 to 35 percent better lifting capability," DeGay explained. 

The uniform from the waist down will have a robotic-powered system that is connected directly to the soldier. This system could use pistons to actually replicate the lower body, giving the soldier "upwards of about 300 percent greater lifting and load-carriage capability," DeGay said. "We are looking at potentially mounting a weapon directly to the uniform system and now the soldier becomes a walking gun platform." 

The Future Force Warrior is the Army's short-term change, with a complete rebuild of the soldier from skin out being planned through the Future Warrior system. "We are already starting to look at the 2020 Future Warrior concept, which is integrating stuff that is just starting to show promise in the lab," DeGay concluded. He said researchers hope to see this developing technology mature in the next 15 to 20 years. "Future Warrior is a visionary concept of how the individual warrior may be equipped in the 2015-2020 timeframe," he said.
Future Warrior -- The Army's Future Combat System


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## ndicki (Oct 10, 2006)

Try wearing that lot tracking terrs in the bush or something! Grief! Might be useful in an all-out war, but I'm going to take some convincing that loading people down with tons of technology is going somehow to make them into super-soldiers. Admittedly, some of the kit may prove useful now and again, but don't you _already_ feel just a little bit overloaded? There's a limit to how much stuff you can carry round...

Of course, I was a real infantryman, and carried all my kit around with me. Vehicles? No, what for? They draw attention to you...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 10, 2006)

ndicki said:


> Try wearing that lot tracking terrs in the bush or something! Grief! Might be useful in an all-out war, but I'm going to take some convincing that loading people down with tons of technology is going somehow to make them into super-soldiers. Admittedly, some of the kit may prove useful now and again, but don't you _already_ feel just a little bit overloaded? There's a limit to how much stuff you can carry round...



Did you read the artical at all?

It talks about how the hole kit and everything you need weighs 50lb. Thats less than what the infantryman carry around today...

Like I said I saw the whole kit at the Combat Expo last year and it is fricken amazing and going to make the soldiers abilites even better. 



ndicki said:


> Of course, I was a real infantryman, and carried all my kit around with me. Vehicles? No, what for? They draw attention to you...



I was a "real" aviator, and carried all my **** to a gator with which I drove all my stuff to my helicopter and then let it fly my stuff around for me.

Not my fault you signed up to be a grunt. Everytime we saw "Real" Infantryman they would complain about how we dont carry **** around and how we are not "Real" Soldiers. They allways said that until we came to pick them up off the battlefield or gave them support from the air and then we were the greatest thing since bread and butter for them. They chose to be grunts not me.


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## ndicki (Oct 10, 2006)

Sure, the kit weights 50lbs - so where's the several days worth of food and (more importantly) water, just for starters? And the tells-the-medic-how-you're-feeling kit is supposed to work when you're off in the goodness knows where with the terrs and baddies all round, etc? We just stop the game and slope off to the RAP for a check-up? Like I said, fine for a high-tech mech war, but as far as I can see, we're not fighting those at the moment, or even for the foreseeable future. We need to be doing foot patrolling, recce, hard fast combined arms strikes, etc... Terminator warfare isn't going to do the job. It might be useful when you do get a contact, but it isn't going to help you set that contact up. That requires lots of skillful, sneaky-beaky stuff which Terminator there is not designed for. Just my two-pennyworth. In my experience, the more high-tech stuff you've got, the more stuff there is to go wrong just when you need it. And if you always train WITH the stuff, then when it gives up the ghost, as it inevitably will, then you're going to find yourself in situations you are not adequately trained for. Don't forget this junk will have been made to minimal specs by the lowest bidder, and will have been issued to half-as-dozen probably clueless troopies before they give it to you...

Who heard me _complaining_ about being an infantryman? The only thing to be! Everything else is just support...


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## Matt308 (Oct 10, 2006)

HALO. Lot's of work to do before that becomes front line. Add rations, ammo and weapon and... what about maintenance?


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## P38 Pilot (Oct 10, 2006)

I dont like the future warrior uniform. Im happy with the BDUs and ACUs.


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## mkloby (Oct 10, 2006)

I have finally had time to read that article. I must say - it does seem a little bit ridiculous. I guess I will believe something like that when it comes out and is operational - and I am wearing one! Absorbs unlimited machine gun rounds? It sounds great - and I bet there is science behind it - but just sounds too gadgety. Besides - what about cost. Seems more like a study in which certain elements will be adopted by the military.


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## ndicki (Oct 11, 2006)

Interesting to note that the Marines - who are first-class infantrymen who just happen often to arrive up the sharp end by alternative means, seem to echo my feelings...

Technology in aircraft is one thing, but to the infantryman who has to cart it round with him for miles and miles, only to see the stuff fail to do its job just when the opposition is starting to get uppity, is another...

The two most important pieces of technology the infantryman has are his rifle and his radio; not necessarily in that order. (And if you want my opinion, people who ride into battle in armoured vehicles are not real infantrymen; they are more, say, Panzer Grenadiers. I have two feet, and they hardly ever have mechanical failures!)


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## mkloby (Oct 11, 2006)

ndicki said:


> Interesting to note that the Marines - who are first-class infantrymen who just happen often to arrive up the sharp end by alternative means, seem to echo my feelings...



I must say I am not sure what that means! I will say that we have foot slogging infantry, as well as Light Armored Recon infantry - essentially a battalion equipped with LAV-25s. However - infantry will often deploy with Amphib Assault Vehicles, and would be fully mech. However, they would be used more as an APC not an Infantry Fighting Vehicle. The new Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle is being designed to act as more of an IFV.
Battalion motor pools have been built up as well due to the use of mounted recon in Iraq - so there are also ample 7 tons and armored humvees organic to that unit to provide transportation. Not to mention our air assault capabilities - CH-46s and CH-53, even could use hueys, plus we have our own C-130s. There are many ways that Marines can hitch a ride - although much of our training involves humping.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 11, 2006)

ndicki said:


> Who heard me _complaining_ about being an infantryman? The only thing to be! Everything else is just support...



  

Lets see this is what I did every day as a Support guy in the War:

1. Insterted Sniper Teams so they could kill enemy snipers so that everyone else could be a bit safer while in there Camp and so they could kill assholes trying to place road side bombs to kill our convoys.

2. Inserted Special Forces and Navy SEALS into enemy camps and villages on combat airassaults so they could take out the bad guys.

3. Inserted whole Infantry Companies in to Samara and Falujah for combat offensives.

4. Extracted wounded soldiers who were on the verge of dieing because the Medivacs were allready at there full capacity.

5. Patroled supply roughts and roads by flying along them to prevent people from laying mines and bombs.

6. Evaded Missles and small arms fire directly fired at my aircraft.

7. Engaged those people who fired those weapons at my aircraft.

8. Rescued downed airman who were shot down. 

Yeah Support guys as you call them dont just sit around support the infantry. Thats why were called a COMBAT AVIATION BRIGADE.

I somewhat understand the attitude of the infantry but it pisses me off because they think they are gods greatest gift to the military when in reality they are just either:

A. To Dumb to do anything else in the Army because there test scores were to low.

B. To smart to be in the Infantry and they chose it only because it had the smallest enlistment time and they needed there college paid off.

I choose to think they are just jealous they dont get to fly around in the coolest damn helicopters to take the sky every day...

*Basically what I am getting at here is the Infantry aint **** without mobility in todays Army and that includes Army Aviation! 

I dont care how much of a bad *** infantry you think you are, you go to Iraq and try walking for days through the desert just to reach a destination 50 miles away. Aint gonna happen...*


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 11, 2006)

ndicki said:


> The two most important pieces of technology the infantryman has are his rifle and his radio; not necessarily in that order. (And if you want my opinion, people who ride into battle in armoured vehicles are not real infantrymen; they are more, say, Panzer Grenadiers. I have two feet, and they hardly ever have mechanical failures!)



Maybe in yesterdays military, not in today. The infantryman can not function with mobility today. Todays wars are being fought over vast areas. You can not walk a hundred miles and fight in the desert. You have to get there by either HUMVV, helicopter or APC. Todays infantry has gotten with the program...


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## mkloby (Oct 11, 2006)

Hey Adler I think he meant that all in good fun, and didn't mean anything offensive (I hope) by the everything else is just support comment. I hear where you're coming from, I too catch a lot of **** too for training to be a pilot rather than ground combat arms. Our modern day combined arms doctrine would collapse whether you take out the ground elements - including infantry, or the air elements. Every MOS is essential to the way we wage warfare - take out one and the whole doctrine collapses.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 11, 2006)

mkloby said:


> I must say I am not sure what that means! I will say that we have foot slogging infantry, as well as Light Armored Recon infantry - essentially a battalion equipped with LAV-25s. However - infantry will often deploy with Amphib Assault Vehicles, and would be fully mech. However, they would be used more as an APC not an Infantry Fighting Vehicle. The new Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle is being designed to act as more of an IFV.
> Battalion motor pools have been built up as well due to the use of mounted recon in Iraq - so there are also ample 7 tons and armored humvees organic to that unit to provide transportation. Not to mention our air assault capabilities - CH-46s and CH-53, even could use hueys, plus we have our own C-130s. There are many ways that Marines can hitch a ride - although much of our training involves humping.



And that goes with what I said up there. A mobile force has the most advantage. Just hoofing it around with a ruck sack and your gun and radio will not win wars.

The USMC and the US Army have figured that out...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 11, 2006)

mkloby said:


> I hear where you're coming from, I too catch a lot of **** too for training to be a pilot rather than ground combat arms. Our modern day combined arms doctrine would collapse whether you take out the ground elements - including infantry, or the air elements. Every MOS is essential to the way we wage warfare - take out one and the whole doctrine collapses.



I agree with you fully! 100%


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 11, 2006)

mkloby said:


> Hey Adler I think he meant that all in good fun, and didn't mean anything offensive (I hope) by the everything else is just support comment.



I hope so too, because comments like that if they are serious really piss me off, because me and my comrads dodged missles and bullets every day and risked our lives every day doing our mission and I have lost friends who were shot down.

That goes for many many different kinds of jobs that are not infantry.


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## ndicki (Oct 11, 2006)

All meant in good fun - no intention to do anything other than harmless tweaking. Of course I know that the whole thing fits together into one machine, and that if any part fails to perform, the machine as a whole breaks down.

There is some truth in what I said though, because the final end to any conventional war is to occupy the enemy's terrain and/or country, and the number one tool for that is the infantryman. But I admit (against my hard-fought habits) that he can't really do it alone, and that he is not the only one up the sharp end, by any means. No slur was intended to anyone who gets in harm's way.

A lot of the stuff I did was non-mech, in a different approach to a different kind of war; and I'm very glad that I'm not stuck in the middle of Iraq, as you say.

So don't take it too seriously, and when I get the chance, I'll stand you a beer!

BTW, in the British Army, the ones who get the HIGHEST scores are admitted to the Infantry. Just out of interest. Also, I'd just ask the all-mech types what they'd do in the Falklands? While people trained as leg-infantry will be capable of using vehicles, I'm not sure the opposite is necessarily true.


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## mkloby (Oct 11, 2006)

Hey ndicki, i'll throw something at you. All US Marines are trained as riflemen, and trained in infantry platoon level ops. They even use squadrons to do patrols, both foot and mounted, in Iraq. While the grunts spend their whole time training for ground engagements, other units can prove up to the task as well.

All Marine officers go through 6 months of ground training, including infantry off/def, SASO, urban, patrolling, engineering, etc. before they even go to their assigned MOS.

Just a thought - some of the most major problems that the Wehrmacht faced in WWII was it's lack of mechanized/motorized units - particularly acute in the early war years. This really bacame a problem in Barbarossa, as infantry slowed the advance of the fast moving panzer divs. Hitler refused to allow panzer armies to continue ahead of the infantry - he tethered them to the slow moving infantry.

Just something to think about - in a conventional war nonetheless.


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## ndicki (Oct 11, 2006)

I think that in fact we're all making the same mistake - believing that 'our' style of war is the only one there is; in fact, they are all out there somewhere, just waiting for us to get caught up in them.

Those who were in the Iraq War see that as being "real war" - and it is. Meanwhile, those who were in the Falklands see something else; the Vietnam veterans, something different; the Rhodies yet another war, and so on. All of them are right. And to cap it all, unless you're bloody lucky, the one you get is the one you _didn't_ train for - so you train for the hardest.

Just a word, though, to those who preach mech war - it didn't work so well in Vietnam, it wouldn't have worked in Rhodesia, and it didn't work in Somalia. It is not the only way to do it, and the way it needs to be done depends on a lot of factors that are out of our control.

That's one of the things I like about the USMC - the fact that you are first Riflemen, and only then, whatever else you are. That is something I believe we share, in that, for example, all British (and come to that, Commonwealth, as far as I've seen) Officer Cadets train as Infantry Officers, and go to 'To-Arms' training only after thex receive their commissions. Much the same thing goes for British O/Rs, too; basic training assumes you are an infantryman, rather than, say, a tankie or a lorry-driver.

BTW, this may amuse you...

Telegraph | News | US calls in Paras for Baghdad secret war

Just out of interest (tongue firmly in cheek!)


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## mkloby (Oct 12, 2006)

Well I think of it like this. Mobility and speed are arguably the most important factors in a fighting force. In fact, USMC doctrine is based upon this. Sometimes that mobility may be acheived by APCs, sometimes trucks, sometimes C-130s, and sometimes helos. Mech had problems in Vietnam, but air assault became a cornerstone. Brings me to another point - adaptability. It's a great asset - a great tool to have these various capabilities. Obviously no one solution will work for all problems. Then there are times when you need lots of boots on the ground - which does not mean that leg inf does not coexist with all these other means. We do extensive cross training and combined arms exercises so whatever the threat is - there's a way to bring the hate and discontent.


BTW ndicki - your Royal Marines are awesome. We had them out in Quantico where we do our officer training - and one of those guys was walking around the barracks naked because he threw his cammies in the washer - I thought it was hilarious but a female officer who witnessed it did not.


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## ndicki (Oct 12, 2006)

Genuine story, for what it's worth: (we used to train on the facilities at CTC Lympstone from time to time, and came into close contact with RMs and RMRs) Also used to run recces on them on Woodbury Common, Dartmoor, etc - all areas where armoured vehicles would get you about ten yards before bogging in...

USMC Officer, eying the letters "RM" worn on a Royal's shoulder slide: "Say, what do those letters RM mean?"

Bootie: " Real Marines, Sir." 

(Also to be taken as a joke!)

When I went through first the cadets, then Officer training, etc etc, the British Army was going through a difficult phase - the ancient, worn-out FV432 APCs we had in Germany basically didn't work, and were there just to keep the Tech/Mech people amused. We only used them when we wanted to start walking from a previously undetermined point...

Once we paid a farmer 5 Pounds to carry the platoon in the back of his farm trailer!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 12, 2006)

ndicki said:


> Once we paid a farmer 5 Pounds to carry the platoon in the back of his farm trailer!



 But does that not mean that you were not walking? 

We did that one time when were doing evasion training. A helicopter dropped us off out in the middle of the German country side and we had to get a predetermined point so that the Medivac could pick us up. We went into a farm field and hid in a farmers trailer because the OPFOR was close to getting us. The farmer found us and since I spoke German I showed him on the map where we had to get to and he took my crew to the destination where we called for extraction and they got us.


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## pbfoot (Oct 12, 2006)

I picked one guy up that was doing the EE excercise and drove him in the trunk of my car a few miles further away from his destination


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## ndicki (Oct 12, 2006)

Most useful piece of kit to smuggle on an EE effort was the visa card!!!

Incredible what a warm welcome you can get in pubs when you've got one of those...

Of course, I expect in Canada, they really CAN drop you miles from anywhere!


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## k9kiwi (Oct 13, 2006)

You can fly over ground.

You can drive over ground.

Until a GRUNT "Stands on it and Stays" it isn't yours.

Simple as that.

And no offence meant to any trade, it is the single fact of war.


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## ndicki (Oct 13, 2006)

At last, a fellow believer! I am no longer alone!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 13, 2006)

k9kiwi said:


> You can fly over ground.
> 
> You can drive over ground.
> 
> ...



You missed the point of the whole discussion.

The infantry has to occupy the land to win it, but he can not occupy the land without his support and with out his aviation in todays military.

One piece of the puzzle falls apart and it is all lost.


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## ndicki (Oct 13, 2006)

He didn't miss the point at all - the infantry's presence on the ground is the decisive factor, although your point about the other arms, including Aviation, being necessary to enable this is equally valid.

I think we are chasing our tails again!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 13, 2006)

Probably...


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## ndicki (Oct 13, 2006)

In fact, just to cheer you up, choppers are about the only form of battlefield transport and support (those words are not demeaning - anyone who gets in harm's way can be proud of the job he's doing, whatever it is) capable of operating successfully in some of the situations I evoked.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 13, 2006)

I think I just see the situation from a more modern point of view, based off of my combat experiences.

Infantry are not all that is fighting this war right now and it goes down to the smallest of jobs supporting each other. Without each other no one could do there job.

Infantry needs to occupy the land but infantry can not win the war alone.


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## mkloby (Oct 13, 2006)

k9kiwi said:


> You can fly over ground.
> 
> You can drive over ground.
> 
> ...



You can walk on ground too... 
So if I follow your logic... if an armored bn attacks and drives infantry reg off a piece of ground - they don't control that area because they're not grunts? Can mech inf occupy land - or is it only leg grunts? Of course there's more than one way to occupy a piece of ground. Infantry might be better suited to controlling ground in mountains or jungles, but in wide open terrain mech, mot inf or armor may work better, especially with large distances.

If infantry stands and stays - he's irrelevant. He'll be outmaneuvered by a more mobile force and destroyed. W/o mobility - infantry will be destroyed.

I think we all agree on everything each other are saying, and we're just grumbling. Our USMC culture is all about supporting the infantry - but the importance and value of that support cannot be understated.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 13, 2006)

mkloby said:


> You can walk on ground too...
> So if I follow your logic... if an armored bn attacks and drives infantry reg off a piece of ground - they don't control that area because they're not grunts? Can mech inf occupy land - or is it only leg grunts? Of course there's more than one way to occupy a piece of ground. Infantry might be better suited to controlling ground in mountains or jungles, but in wide open terrain mech, mot inf or armor may work better, especially with large distances.



Thankyou, atleast someone understood what I was saying.



mkloby said:


> If infantry stands and stays - he's irrelevant. He'll be outmaneuvered by a more mobile force and destroyed. W/o mobility - infantry will be destroyed.



Exactly


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## ndicki (Oct 13, 2006)

To Mkloby, really:

All depends which war; in Iraq, you have lots of nice open space with bags and bags of nothing in it - ideal for mech war. Now go to some other places, and your MICVs will not survive ten minutes against well-equipped and trained leg infantry. You're quite right.

As you say, it's a mistake to think that this war (Iraq) is the only sort.

Also, remember what happened to the Israeli Armoured Forces in 1973, when the Egyptians deployed tank hunters with (for the period) sophisticated AT weapons... 

We must not make the mistake of thinking that because Allied Forces steamrollered right over the (ill-equipped, demoralized, poorly-trained and badly-motivated) Iraqi Army, that ALL armies will roll over and die as easily.(I do not consider the present terrorist/resistance movement as the same thing as the old Iraqi Army, for obvious reasons.)

And you can not devastate all before you with prophylactic fire, so if you are facing seriously trained, equipped and motivated infantry, I'm afraid that they could very possibly make these armoured forces pay a very high price for the terrain. As you said, heavy woodland, swamps, hilly or mountainous areas, and so on, are not recommended for armoured warfare, while infantry can exploit them to death. And you can't always go round as easily as you might hope, since that still leaves active enemy forces behind you.

In my ancient days, in Germany, it was assumed we would be over-run on day one - our APCs were rubbish, and we'd be on our own. The idea was to hold as thoroughly as possible, and when over-run, to keep up pressure on the enemy's tail. Never got to test the idea thank goodness, but it sounds just the sort of sneaky stuff I "enjoy" (wrong word, but you know what I mean) ! 

But if you can imagine what it might be to have British troops ranging round your rear, making a nuisance of themselves, it isn't quite the same thing!

And yes, I'm grumbling, and when all is said and done, I think we agree on the basics - the rest is application and interpretation.

But what K9kiwi means, I think, is that you have to have people there to control it.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 13, 2006)

Yes you have to people there but they can be from all sorts of units and types of soldiers.


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## mkloby (Oct 13, 2006)

Kinda back to the original topic of the thread... Hey ndicki and k9 - do you guys have any cool pics from when you guys were in? I believe k9 had the pics w/ german sheps... if I remember correctly? Got any others? This is for anyone out there!


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## mkloby (Oct 13, 2006)

I posted this pic once i think a while back - anyway this is why love grunts. And this ain't even all the gear - someone's gotta carry the spare barrel bag and tripod for the damn M240G. I think I had close to 150lbs of gear. Six months of training as infantry does give a unique insight to ops as grunts. But I'll still take my aircraft!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 13, 2006)

Here is a couple more that I dont think I have posted before.


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## ndicki (Oct 13, 2006)

Goodness me, what ruffians!

Didn't have a camera, would you believe, back then, so pics are few and far between, but just to keep you happy, I had a root round in all my old junk; it'll do to be going on with. And don't ask the obvious question!


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## ndicki (Oct 13, 2006)

Found another one !


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## mkloby (Oct 13, 2006)

ndicki said:


> And don't ask the obvious question!



What's the obvious question?? I like the pics.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 13, 2006)

If u go back to the beginnings of this thread u'll see alot of the more senior members pics, mine included.... What with being in the Teams, we didnt exactly run around with a camera in our web gear...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 14, 2006)

Good pics there ndicki. Here are a few from about 12 years ago when I was in Cadets before I joined the Army. We were training with the British Cadets in Bristol.

I need to sort through all my actually Army pics because I know I have some good ones to post but I have litterally thousands of them.


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## ndicki (Oct 14, 2006)

The Cadets are a fantastic thing - I was one from 14 to 18, although we weren't anything like so well equipped - we had 1937 Pattern webbing, .303 No.IV MkI Lee-Enfields, and .303 Bren Guns! Just like WW2! (Hear me complaining?)

Did you enjoy playing with what has to be the civilized world's worst service rifle?

Never used it myself, thank goodness, but apparently: 

A:if you hit the ground hard, as one does, the pistol grip falls off.
B: the issue bugjuice eats the furniture.
C: the mag release catch is on the left, just where your thumb falls when you grasp the mag - and rubs on your webbing so the mag falls out at interesting moments.
D: the optical sight takes you longer to acquire a target.

And so on. I expect these faults have all been addressed by now, but it doesn't give you much confidence.

I liked my old SLR. You could shoot through all sorts of things with it, walls, trees, etc. 

This pic was not taken while in service - just having fun! But the rifle, an FN FAL/R1, is nice!


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 14, 2006)

Good stuff everyone.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 15, 2006)

I never had any problems with the one they issued me 12 years ago in England. I was just having fun running around playing soldier and getting to make new friends in England.

I even started dating a British Female Cadet. Her name was Jade and she was from Little Stoke. Beautiful little girl and we had a great time. I would fly up to England and stay with her.

Man that was a fun time with the Bristol Cadet Force.

I actually ran into a few of the British Cadets 12 years later in Iraq when I was in the US Army and they were in the real British Army as well.


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## ndicki (Oct 15, 2006)

The cadet version was introduced a bit after the service version, and may have benefitted from some of the teething troubles of it's parent!

It is slightly "dumbed down" compared to the original - it has only single-shot capacity (which I don't see as a problem; the FN FAL in its British L1A1 SLR version was also modified to single-shot only), and no optical sight - again, IMHO, a better idea!

Edit: The cadet version has to be manually reloaded by pulling the breech-block back, and is not semi-automatic. Needless to say, the SLR is.

The thing I don't like about rifles which have a full auto capacity is that people tend to use them on full auto rather than doing aimed shooting. Call me old fashioned, but I value marksmanship for a number of obvious reasons!

Had my Crossed Rifles when I was in the Cadets...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 15, 2006)

We had SUSAT sights on the quad light machine gun (I cant remember what kind of gun we were using).

Anyhow I got to play with the real guns anyhow when I joined the real army.


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## ndicki (Oct 15, 2006)

Light Support Weapon, basically an SA80/L85 with a heavier barrel and a bipod; sort of the British Army's answer to the RPK.

I liked the old L4 Bren Gun, as it fired 7.62mm ammo from a 30rd mag which fitted the SLR too - made for good interchangeability. That died the death when they took our Brens away and replaced them with FN MAG GPMGs, which accepted only disintegrating link ammo - OK for some purposes, but rubbish for leg infantry. Spend hours camming up, and then wrap yourself up in shiny belts of gun ammo! Not to mention the stuff catching in bushes, falling off, and so on. Very good gun, but it needed some sort of ammo box fitted, like they finally did with the Minimi.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 15, 2006)

Yeah that was deffinatly a fun time. The British Cadre were all great too, really tought us some great stuff and we all had a good time. My favorite was on the Bivvy we went out and played war games with Artillary simulators.

Man I thought it was the coolest thing in the world to be in a war until I actually went to war and then I realized how scary it really is and how much hell it really is.


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## ndicki (Oct 15, 2006)

That's the problem. War would be great fun otherwise. 

If all you ever got to do was exercises - I mean really good, tough ones with lots of challenging things - it'd be the best job in the world!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 16, 2006)

That I agree with. It deffinatly was an exciting job.


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## k9kiwi (Oct 17, 2006)

> Originally Posted by ndicki
> And don't ask the obvious question!
> 
> What's the obvious question??



Whatcha doin wif an AK over your shoulder, your British.


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## ndicki (Oct 17, 2006)

k9kiwi said:


> Whatcha doin wif an AK over your shoulder, your British.


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## P38 Pilot (Oct 23, 2006)

Alder, those Bristol Cadets are awesome! I wish we could play like that in ROTC....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 24, 2006)

I was in ROTC when we did that...

Live in Europe and you get to do cool things like that.


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## ndicki (Oct 24, 2006)

Correct that, mate - live in the UK and you get to do cool things like that. I had effective command of a company of cadets at the age of 17! Fun? Oh, yes!

Live anywhere else in Europe, no way, especially in France. Which is actually quite a relief.

The pastor from our English-speaking church said he'd spent the weekend leading a retreat in the Alps - I asked him when he'd joined the French Mountain Troops!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 25, 2006)

No I lived in Germany when we did that cool stuff and the British cadets came to German every summer as well.


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## mkloby (Oct 25, 2006)

Speaking of UK - do the Royal Marines have other air assets 845, 846, 847, and 848 Squadrons? I tried looking on the website at RM Aviation and that's all i could find as organic air assets.


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## ndicki (Oct 25, 2006)

Seems correct to me. This lot should know!

RM Aviation : Royal Marines : Operations and Support : Royal Navy

That#s probably the same site... Well, there you are.


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## P38 Pilot (Oct 27, 2006)

ndicki said:


> Correct that, mate - live in the UK and you get to do cool things like that. I had effective command of a company of cadets at the age of 17! Fun? Oh, yes!
> 
> Live anywhere else in Europe, no way, especially in France. Which is actually quite a relief.
> 
> The pastor from our English-speaking church said he'd spent the weekend leading a retreat in the Alps - I asked him when he'd joined the French Mountain Troops!



Sounds great. These cadets seem hardcore. Alder, stupid question but the rifles in the pictures, are they actual rifles that use live ammo?


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## ndicki (Oct 28, 2006)

Yes, they are. They fire standard NATO 5.56 ammunition, but are specially modified not to be self-loading, and require re-cocking for each shot. They are otherwise basically the same as the L85A1 service rifle. (Which, incidentally, is universally regarded as a piece of utter junk.)

Untitled Document

The top one is the L85A1 Service Rifle, and below, the L98A1 Cadet Rifle. Good luck spotting the difference!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 28, 2006)

Yeap as Ndicki said P38.

When we out playing war games we fired 5.56 blank ammunition of course but we fired the NATO 5.56 live rounds at the range many many times for qualification.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 28, 2006)

how much air support do you want our marines to have! bear in mind their pilots also fly harriers and the marrines have fulkl support from all other naval air sqadrons........


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## k9kiwi (Oct 28, 2006)

> The pastor from our English-speaking church said he'd spent the weekend leading a retreat in the Alps - I asked him when he'd joined the French Mountain Troops



Now I have finished cleaning the coffee off the monitor.

Back around 86 we did an ex with a bunch of Aussies, who had a small group of Aborigine trackers with them.

For some reason they were only issued with old Owen sub machine guns, and confessed to us later, they were never even issued with blank rounds let alone fired live ammo.

We set up a position, using 5 7.62 SLR's, 2 heavy barrel auto SLR's and one M-60 (yes we were heavy on weapons for the ex). 

The trackers found us (of course) and decided to attack. 

The Umpire was not impressed when we were overun by 12 trackers.

Reason was we were laughing to hard to bloody well fire back.

Ever seen an attack done by guys charging at you waving there little sub machine guns around and shouting "Bullet Bullet..... Bullet Bullet...." as they ran.

It was some sort of Twilight Zone thing. The first Idjit in our group started the shambles by shouting back "Oh no, the Bullet got me" and promptly collapsing over the 60.

It was downhill from there.


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## ndicki (Oct 28, 2006)

You've just got your revenge for the coffee! Brilliant!


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## P38 Pilot (Oct 28, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Yeap as Ndicki said P38.
> 
> When we out playing war games we fired 5.56 blank ammunition of course but we fired the NATO 5.56 live rounds at the range many many times for qualification.



Awesome. Its fun when you play with blanks giving you that realism.


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## k9kiwi (Oct 29, 2006)

P-38

Just remember why you are "playing" with those blanks.

It is not a coincidence that the targets you shoot live rounds at on the range are shaped like humans.

And I still prefer the old 7.62 SLR, at least you can chop the tree down if the mongrel is hiding behind it.


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## ndicki (Oct 29, 2006)

k9kiwi said:


> And I still prefer the old 7.62 SLR, at least you can chop the tree down if the mongrel is hiding behind it.



The SLR was a good piece of kit - I could nail 18 inch square falling plates out to 300 yards with my own and generally get 5 out of 5. Got company shot once! Can't do that sort of shooting with this 5.56 rubbish. Never had trouble with stoppages - just needed cleaning properly, like any other rifle.

And when I saw one to buy - actually an FN FAL - I got it!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 29, 2006)

P38 Pilot said:


> Awesome. Its fun when you play with blanks giving you that realism.



And the realism of the real thing is not fun...


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## k9kiwi (Oct 29, 2006)

Dicki

I wandered into a Gun Shop while in the military and was having a graze around. Saw a "funny" looking SLR. When I got talking to the owner he said that no one wanted to buy it because of its looks.

I was just about peeing my pants trying not to laugh as I handed over $300.00 Kiwi Shekels to take it off his hands.

7.62 SLR, heavy barrel, with bipod.

Israeli woodstock foregrip.

1 x Section weapons kit.

2 x 20 round and 3 30 round magazines.

Full auto enabled.

 

The armourers back at base couldn't believe it when I signed in my new personal toy.

Considering that full auto is illegal in this country, it was a damn fine buy. When I left the Mob, I had it chopped up in front of me by the armourers.

Didn't want to think about it ending up with some Idjit.


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## ndicki (Oct 30, 2006)

Good one. I'd have had the thing neutralized rather than chop it up, though. Like I said above, all mine have been - I mean, what am I going to do in France with a working weapon? (Don't answer that, my wife'd get upset!)

But it's nice just to be able to hold one from time to time, strip it, etc. (!!)


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## mkloby (Oct 30, 2006)

the lancaster kicks *** said:


> how much air support do you want our marines to have!



The more the better! That's a silly comment. Some of the guys here have been emphatically stating that brit forces are very short of helo support, as well as other air assets. If that's true, then obviously the system in place is not working.


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## ndicki (Oct 30, 2006)

mkloby said:


> Some of the guys here have been emphatically stating that brit forces are very short of helo support, as well as other air assets. If that's true, then obviously the system in place is not working.



Peace is a wonderful thing, isn't it! Never misses - wind down your armed forces to such a point that they are no longer capable of doing the job correctly, and then get into a war.

Someone should tell that a*se Blair - and ALL politicians - that being the best in the world is not going to make up indefinitely for inadequate kit and inadequate numbers. The Yanks, I'm afraid to say, seem to have remembered that better than our lot.


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## mkloby (Oct 30, 2006)

unfortunately politicians do seem to think that the military can be disbanded if it's peacetime - save some more money for an expanded social welfare program!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 30, 2006)

Our military is feeling the cuts from the draw down after the cold war as well though. Not eneogh troops and funding has been cut drastically until recently.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 31, 2006)

> Someone should tell that a*se Blair - and ALL politicians - that being the best in the world is not going to make up indefinitely for inadequate kit and inadequate numbers. The Yanks, I'm afraid to say, seem to have remembered that better than our lot.



i agree for the most part but then again buddying up to the yanks is anything but a bad move, we get less of the hatred america get but we've got one of the strongest alliances the modern world has ever seen, whilst we generally go on the offensive together if you were to attack Britain, you're almost garanteed to get America involved................


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## Matt308 (Nov 2, 2006)

the lancaster kicks *** said:


> i agree for the most part but then again buddying up to the yanks is anything but a bad move, we get less of the hatred america get but we've got one of the strongest alliances the modern world has ever seen, whilst we generally go on the offensive together if you were to attack Britain, you're almost garanteed to get America involved................



Your [email protected] skippy.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 8, 2006)

if you mean you now think i love all things american, you can sleep in comfort tonight safe in the knowledge i don't  i just think that being the best friend of the world's biggest power's a damn good idea!


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## Matt308 (Nov 8, 2006)

So you are an equal opportunity whore which sleeps with whoever holds the biggest gun? You better start learning Chinese.


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## Hunter368 (Nov 8, 2006)




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## mkloby (Nov 8, 2006)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> if you mean you now think i love all things american, you can sleep in comfort tonight safe in the knowledge i don't  i just think that being the best friend of the world's biggest power's a damn good idea!



Lanc - that's been a strong ethos of UK foreign policy for decades!


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## Matt308 (Nov 8, 2006)

Lanc insulted me Hunter. My superpower ego is bruised. And I was going to save him from the hypthetical baddies too.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 9, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> So you are an equal opportunity whore which sleeps with whoever holds the biggest gun? You better start learning Chinese.


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## ndicki (Nov 9, 2006)

mkloby said:


> Lanc - that's been a strong ethos of UK foreign policy for decades!



Strikes me it's generally the other way round. Look at Grenada, for example.


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## mkloby (Nov 9, 2006)

ndicki said:


> Strikes me it's generally the other way round. Look at Grenada, for example.



I think you have a valid point with that too, Ndicki.

To quote Foreign Sec Ernest Bevin - "We find ourselves at times irked at the role of jr partner... nevertheless... the partnership is worth the price." - said of UK's special relationship with the US going back to the days that the Cold War was setting in.

Of course there are deviations from this - take Suez as well. I think by and large the US and Britain do have a very close bond...

Britain was also one of the few European powers that did not seek independence from the West or Americanism throughout the Cold War - which is still evident today - a policy that France, Germany, and Italy attempted - also a major impetus for the EEC (which UK did not seek admission to until later). Major British contributions to Korea are another example - even though at that time Britain had to spend more per capita on defense than even the US was spending.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 9, 2006)

I finally got a scanner in my home - dug this from out from the bottom of the drawer...


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 9, 2006)

The original Cracker Jack! 

Good stuff.


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## mkloby (Nov 9, 2006)

how cute joe


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## Matt308 (Nov 9, 2006)

Nice FBJ. Those were the times.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 10, 2006)

Found another - doing a daily on my plane - note the large quantites of rags! This was in Hawaii, 1998.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 10, 2006)

Damn with that many rags, I would think you were working on a Chinook or my beloved Blackhawk!


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## mkloby (Nov 10, 2006)

You know what they say - if it ain't leaking you can't trust it!

I just checked into the base today down at NAS corpus - I didn't know that there was an Army Depot side of the base - it's a major repair facility for helos. It was pretty impressive watching them balance rotor blades in this beast...


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## Matt308 (Nov 10, 2006)

Cool mkloby! Do they spin them in that contraption? Is that what the fencing is for? To prevent injury/damage from catastrophic failures? Is the tower on the opposite side a crane to hoist the blades?

I would not have guessed that such a facility would be necessary for maintenance.


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## mkloby (Nov 10, 2006)

Yeah - pretty damn cool I thought.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 10, 2006)

mkloby said:


> You know what they say - if it ain't leaking you can't trust it!



Thats the way it goes for the Chinook deffinatly.



mkloby said:


> I just checked into the base today down at NAS corpus - I didn't know that there was an Army Depot side of the base - it's a major repair facility for helos. It was pretty impressive watching them balance rotor blades in this beast...



Yeap that is where my old aircraft is right now. She was struck by lighting and has never been the same since. She is in Corpus right now getting completely rebuilt from the wiring on up so that she might be a good aircraft again.

Hmm I prefer the old fashion way of track and ballancing blades. Hook a AVA kit with camaras and exelerometers (spelling probably way off) and do it on the aircaft. Can be very annoying though when it does not want to balance.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 10, 2006)

Even though when I say old fashioned way the Huey guys would laugh at me. They used a broom stick with a grease pencil on it.


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## Matt308 (Nov 11, 2006)

I would have thought that it would have been something more along your lines Adler. Something more field expedient to balance blades. Any blade that needed mkloby facility was either a new design analysis or they just threw them away.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 12, 2006)

No that is also a way to balance blades. When blades have been sent in from units to get rebuilt they dont have a helicopter to put a basic balance on them. They put the blade on this machine and balance it based off what there repaires where. They then paint the information on the blade and then when a unit recieves the blade they have all the track and balance info and that allows the mechanic and the crew chief to have an idea of where to start when installing this "new" blade on the aircraft. It makes life more simple in the field really.


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## Matt308 (Nov 13, 2006)

Thanks, Adler.


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## Thomas Lindemann (Nov 25, 2006)

here are a couple of me and some friends from the 3/ABC Abw BTL 750


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 25, 2006)

Hi there Thomas. Got your pm. Cool to see that you are stationed in Ansbach. Were you in Giebelstadt before or did you just get here. Small world that 2 people from the same post end up here.


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## Thomas Lindemann (Nov 25, 2006)

Believe it or not Ive been here a little over 4 years in Bco 412th (old A co 601st) Yep small world. Can you tell me anything about the history of the Ansbach area I know a little of it but you probably have alot more knoweldge on it.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 25, 2006)

We actually have a thread here about the history of Ansbach when it was a WW2 German airbase. Erich has posted threads from the airbase with P-51s parked on it (in the area of what is now the commissary and the FARP after it was taken over by the US Army.

For a history of the city here is a wikipedia posting about it:

_A Benedictine monastery at the place was founded around 748 by a Franconian noble, Gumbertus, who was later canonized. In the following centuries the monastery and the adjoining village (Onoldsbach) grew to become the town of Ansbach (called a town in 1221 for the first time).

The counts of Oettingen ruled over Ansbach until the Hohenzollern burgraves of Nuremberg took over in 1331. The Hohenzollerns made Ansbach the seat of their dynasty until their acquisition of the electorate of Brandenburg in 1415. However, after the death of Frederick I, Margrave of Brandenburg in 1440 the Franconian cadet branch of the family was not politically united with the main Brandenburg line, remaining independent as "Brandenburg-Ansbach."

Margrave George the Pious introduced the Protestant Reformation to Ansbach in 1528, leading to the secularization of St. Gumbertus Abbey in 1563.

In 1792 Ansbach was annexed by the Hohenzollerns of Prussia. In 1796 the Duke of Zweibrücken, Maximilian Joseph, the posterior Bavarian king Max I. Joseph was exiled to Ansbach after Zweibrücken had been taken by the French. In Ansbach Maximilian von Montgelas wrote an elaborate concept for the future political organisation of Bavaria, which is known as the "Ansbacher Mémoire". In 1806 Prussia ceded Ansbach and the principality of Ansbach to Bavaria in exchange for the Bavarian duchy of Berg.

At the end of the 17th century, the margraves' palace at Ansbach was rebuilt in Baroque style.

Since 1970, Ansbach has enlarged its municipal area by incorporating adjacent communities.

Ansbach was a small town largely by-passed by the Industrial Revolution, an administrative and cultural center. Although all bridges were destroyed, the historical center of Ansbach was spared during World War II and it has kept its baroque character.

Ansbach hosts several units of the U.S. armed forces, associated with German units under NATO. There are three separate U.S. installations: Shipton Kaserne, home to 6th Bn., 52nd Air Defense Artillery; Katterbach Kaserne, where the 1st Infantry Division's 4th Combat Aviation Brigade resides, associated with Bismarck Kaserne, where the post exchange, etc. are located, and Barton Barracks, home to the USAG Ansbach.
_

Ansbach - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I actually was born and raised in Germany but live most of my life in Stuttgart. My father was an American and my mother German. I joined the army, asked for Germany and ended up getting stationed in Ansbach. Kept extending and FSTE_ing_ and after 10 months in Kosovo and 14 months in Iraq decided to get out. I still live in Ansbach while my wife finishes college and I am trying to get a contracting job working on the aircraft which is becoming more difficult as I thought.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 25, 2006)

Hey, those are some great pics! Love the MG 3!
Welcome aboard, Thomas.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 25, 2006)

Welcome Tom...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 25, 2006)

Its pretty cool he is based out of our AVIM level maintenance unit for the aircraft here in Ansbach. I never met him though, will have to meet up with him though now.


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## Thomas Lindemann (Nov 25, 2006)

found the pics of the P-51s on Ansbach that was great


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 25, 2006)

It really is neat. Did you know that in Hanger 2 there is an entrance to some underground bunkers and stuff. If you go out to the runway you can see the original German runway and the entrances to the underground hangers and bunkers there. It really is an interesting post. There are some interesting sites out there I will have to find the URLs that show posts in Ansbach back in WW2.


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## facecurtian (Nov 29, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Here's one of my brother and I taken in 1999



I see you were an AD, On what aircraft?


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## P38 Pilot (Nov 29, 2006)

Welcome Thomas. Love the uniforms you guys have.


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## mkloby (Nov 30, 2006)

Can someone straighten something out for me - are soldiers permitted to wear their cammies out in public, say grocery shopping, or to best buy, or even routine airline travel? I thought they were not, yet I see them out in force wearing tactical gear in public, and I wonder if it's just an unwritten practice that they all do. I've seen all ranks from jr enlisted to field grades do this...


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## pbfoot (Nov 30, 2006)

base orders might allow it . When you exited Training establishments to go to more operational units it was more "real world" at least in the CAF it was


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 30, 2006)

mkloby said:


> Can someone straighten something out for me - are soldiers permitted to wear their cammies out in public, say grocery shopping, or to best buy, or even routine airline travel? I thought they were not, yet I see them out in force wearing tactical gear in public, and I wonder if it's just an unwritten practice that they all do. I've seen all ranks from jr enlisted to field grades do this...



You can go off post in your ACU's, BDU's or Flightsuits and go shopping or whatever as long as you conduct yourself in a military manner.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 30, 2006)

facecurtian said:


> I see you were an AD, On what aircraft?


P-3s - I did work C-130 QECs in IMA for a short while.


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## ndicki (Nov 30, 2006)

The (small) German contingent here in Fontainebleau wear their cam kit around town, to the great dislike of the French... Good for them! Anyway, while German combats look good - and German - their Service Dress looks awful. Pity, because the Bundeswehr is far more competent than it used to be 20 years ago.


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## mkloby (Nov 30, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> You can go off post in your ACU's, BDU's or Flightsuits and go shopping or whatever as long as you conduct yourself in a military manner.



Thanks Chris... one of my good friends said that you cannot wear tactical gear out in town - but he's medical corps... they do field training in tents w/ AC and heat... not really the Army! Navy and Marines have much more strict uniform regs than Army.


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## facecurtian (Nov 30, 2006)

I was an AME and had been told the P-3 fire extinguishing system to the engines could be a bear to work on.
I was in tailhooks my intire enlistment, don't know what would have been harder to work on.


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## ChrisMAg2 (Dec 1, 2006)

In 'ye ol' summerdays of 1983:
This is me in german Bundeswehr Olive drab. We are on a video recce mission during an excercise.
In the second photo the one facing the camera is me too.
Following are some shots i was allowed to take with my own camera.


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## lesofprimus (Dec 1, 2006)

Nice shots there Chris...


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## Gnomey (Dec 1, 2006)

Yep, interesting to see that Sherman still sitting there.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 1, 2006)

ChrisMAg2 said:


> In 'ye ol' summerdays of 1983:
> This is me in german Bundeswehr Olive drab. We are on a video recce mission during an excercise.
> In the second photo the one facing the camera is me too.
> Following are some shots i was allowed to take with my own camera.



That training area looks like Grafenwoehr or Hohenfels. Either way it has not changed if it is one of those.


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## ChrisMAg2 (Dec 1, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> That training area looks like Grafenwoehr or Hohenfels. Either way it has not changed if it is one of those.



Sorry, it's neither of them. The shots from the ranges and the first Helicopter shot are from Munster-Nord. The "rescue of Starfighter" is at Fassberg AF, and the second Helicopter shot is around Lüneburg. I was based at Kampftruppenschule 2 in Munster, belonging to PzLehrBrig 9. Munster was then West-Germany's second largest garrison. My duty was to assist the shootings of trainings videos. Not quite the usual fighter job.


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## ndicki (Dec 1, 2006)

That is not a Sherman. The turret looks like a Sherman 76mm turret, fair do's, but it is not. I suggest an M-26 Pershing. Perhaps even more interesting.


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## Matt308 (Dec 2, 2006)

Ndicki, I'm not a tank expert, but could it be a M-48? The bustle doesn't look right. We gave a lot of those to the Germans post war.


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## k9kiwi (Dec 2, 2006)

Matt

Cast your nose into this page.

Methinks Pershing is the tank, note rough cast turret and the distinctive raised sloped piece in the glacis plate. Something the M48 does not have.

Pershing

However the M46 does fit the bill as the changeover between Pershing and Patton.

Go here and search for M26 you will see the changes as each model came out

TanxHeaven


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## ndicki (Dec 2, 2006)

Do you know, I think you've got it.

The second picture shows a British one, I think. Bit of a surprise there.


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## Matt308 (Dec 2, 2006)

k9kiwi said:


> Matt
> 
> Cast your nose into this page.
> 
> ...



Ah your right. And I was wrong on both counts. I meant M-41 and still not close. I'm gonna keep outta this one.


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## k9kiwi (Dec 2, 2006)

So we all agree it is a tank.

Do we also agree that maintenance has been a bit shabby.


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## ChrisMAg2 (Dec 3, 2006)

Here are some details on the nice blast:


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## Matt308 (Dec 3, 2006)

Wonder what weapon made all those shallow pockmarks? 27mm aircraft cannon? I would have thought that the 30mm DU round would have petrated deeper.


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## Corsair82pilot (Jan 22, 2009)

Me back in the day. Early to mid 1980s.


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## Hesekiel (Jan 22, 2009)

You want to see members in uniform?
Well.. This is me (on the left) with my son durin his swearing in procedure in 2006


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## lesofprimus (Jan 22, 2009)

Great shots guys...


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## evangilder (Jan 22, 2009)

Nice stuff. Great to see so many vets here.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 22, 2009)

Not sure if I ever posted these or not (and I am not going to bother going back 50 some odd pages). So here are few more from my Army days.

Me in my Blues with my Bride on our wedding day.





Me in my desert flight suit at "George Bush International Airport, Baghdad, Iraq". 





Me in my "pickle suit" in Germany.


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## Airframes (Jan 23, 2009)

Looking very smart in your 'blues' there Chris.
If I can find any, I'll post some pics of me in uniform - good for a laugh if nothing else!


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 23, 2009)

Corsair82pilot said:


> Me back in the day. Early to mid 1980s.
> 
> View attachment 81437



Where were you flying that Saber at?


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## Corsair82pilot (Jan 24, 2009)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Where were you flying that Saber at?



Actually, I wasn't flying it ( I'm not that old). But it is a great story. I'll post it here and again in the Military story area if you guys don't mind.

I was flying out of George AFB in Victorville, CA. One day I went up to the Tonopah area at Nellis. The rules there were (are?) you could jump any other aircraft and if he wanted to play, fight's on. I saw this F-86 flying low and slow, so I jumped him. I figured I'd kick his butt real good. We took it higher and when we started to turn, he was all over me. My F-4 needed to do about 420 kts to turn at high G and maintain energy. Th F-86 was dong that at about 250 kts. No way I could turn inside of him. I could have unloaded and hit burners and got out of there, and I could have gone about ten miles and turned back to shoot him in the lips with an Aim-7, but I wanted to turn. He got me to fight his fight. He kicked my ass all day long. 
On the ground at Nellis we met while refueling. The guy is a test pilot from Edwards and has about 2,000,000 hours in fighters. 

I learned a lot that day. I got a picture as a souvenir.This picture was actually taken at Tyndall, AFB a year or so later. I lost the older picture, so I had a friend re-take it. I think this one was a drone. The one I jumped had an orange tail.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


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## Corsair82pilot (Jan 24, 2009)

Hey FLYBOYJ, did you fly F-4s?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 25, 2009)

Corsair82pilot said:


> Hey FLYBOYJ, did you fly F-4s?


I got to fly "crash dummy" in the back as a civilian. I worked for Flight Systems out of Mojave and would fly after PDM or yearly condition inspections. On another post I was asking what years were you at George? I knew the last base CO there.


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## Corsair82pilot (Jan 25, 2009)

FLYBOYJ said:


> I got to fly "crash dummy" in the back as a civilian. I worked for Flight Systems out of Mojave and would fly after PDM or yearly condition inspections. On another post I was asking what years were you at George? I knew the last base CO there.




Were you at Edwards? I had a friend who did the same at Edwards and he was a WSO in the Guard. March I think. We were real close, 'til I moved. He got killed in '85 or '86. I was devastated. I found out by accident.
Dave Miller. Did you know him?


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## parsifal (Jan 29, 2009)

My turn I guess

I only have pictures of me up to my passing out parade. i cant find the albums with my later pictures (1980-84) I will keep looking .

There are three other ex-servicemen in these pictures. I have my grandfather, from the Light Horse, then there is my wifes grandfather who was also a cavalryman from the Russian army (he was a Siberian) and finally there is my stepfather, out of uniform (I have none of him in uniform, he doesnt like to show them) he was a member of the 373rd Infantry Div from the Wehrmacht


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 29, 2009)

Corsair82pilot said:


> Were you at Edwards? I had a friend who did the same at Edwards and he was a WSO in the Guard. March I think. We were real close, 'til I moved. He got killed in '85 or '86. I was devastated. I found out by accident.
> Dave Miller. Did you know him?



No, didn't know him, sorry to hear about your loss. 

I worked a lot of TDY out of Edwards and learned to fly there. Edwards would also allow us to do multiple ops out of there and go into the high speed coridor in the 2508 MOA.


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## parsifal (Jan 29, 2009)

Hi Bill great pics, but you might want to reduce their size a bit....edit your post, go to manage attachments, delete the current attachments, resize your photos so that they dont exceed 750 (somethings) and then re-attach. 

I only say this as a suggestion, because people cant actually see all of your photos in one go


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## <simon> (Jan 30, 2009)

Good suggestion parsifal..

With these photos, do Air Force Cadets count...?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 30, 2009)

Very cool Bill G. I spent some time at BIAP and Mosul in 2004 as well. In fact this picture of me was taken in BIAP in April of 2004. You can still see some of the Iraqi Airways planes in the back ground parked in front of the terminals.


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## Bill G. (Jan 30, 2009)

Dear DerAdlerIstGelandet:

Well what do you know, we were at the same places at the same time! Oh, did you know a SPC Amanda Loveless? She worked on helicopter avionics at BIAP. Just being curios

Both times the team was at BIAP, it was a Camp Stryke. That was the walled area that was on the departure end of the runway. My team leader once was buzzed by a low flying C-130. He said it was so low he could see the color of the pilot's eyes. 

I know the C-130s would pop IR flares so low that we would hear the pop of ignition. And sometimes the flares would still be burning when they hit the ground.

Was you there on Easter Sunday, April 2004? That was when the bad guys tried to storm a gate at BIAP. The fighting was on the other side of the wall (airfield side) from us. An M-1 and M-2 did engage the bad guys from 150 meters beyond the "house" we were quartered in. It was the two story job next to the wall. That was close enough! We did put on the "battle rattle" and go arming order red to be ready. But nothing happened in our area. 

The next day we left BIAP for Kuwait. I figured we had done worn out our welcome! That next day, Monday, was interesting. We got to the gate to leave early. We had a dream of making Kuwait in one very long day. 

We were held for several hours at the gate for IEDs. We weren't going to complain even though we knew Kuwait would now take two days. We finally got released and started south on MSR Tampa. Oh, about an hour, hour and a half south of Baghdad, the six lane road goes over two dry washes. A bit before we got there, the bad guys had blown 5 of the 6 lanes. The Marines were just securing the area as we arrived.

The element I was in stopped for a bit and then drove across the median and used the undamaged lane on each bridge to get over the bridge. Once over, my driver told me we were now the last truck. That is not good! Our truck was a Humvee with a "rat rig" shelter and pulling a 5K generator. Not good!

The element stopped and we pulled security. We pulled rear guard and told the next truck up to watch our flanks. Hey, you adapt!

While we were stopped, our 1SG is on the radio telling the SFC (senior person) in the rear part of our element to tell the Marines what ever he had to to be able to join us. We were NOT coming back! Just a note, TOP is in the one picture with me and he was a Mud Marine in Vietnam. Back to the story.

It worked. The rear did rejoin us and our 2nd element was able to get through the bridge area. So we continued south. 

Everything was fine until we hit the fuel stop. They wanted to know what the he)) we was doing there! We was supposed to have back at the bridge. No one told us! So TOP told them we are here. We need fuel to go any wheres. So it was decided we could continue south.

MSR Tampa was closed. So we had the road to ourselves for two days! That was nice. And we had no problems with the bad guys the whole trip.

Tuesday we got to Kuwait and then Camp Victory in Kuwait. Our war was over!!!! TOP called his wife to alert the FRG telephone tree that we were safe. Her first call must have been to my Mom. She was yelling on the phone, THEY'RE SAFE! THEY'RE SAFE! Mom couldn't understand what was being said and almost hung up! I had done proper OPSEC and hadn't told Mom and Dad when we would be leaving Iraq. Only that we were getting close. So Mom wasn't worried at all!

Now for the wild part. Karen, who was to be my future girl friend, heard on the news that the road south out of Baghdad was closed, but that a few elements had gotten through. She says that once she heard the news, she new it was us that had got through. She is spooky that way.

I hope I didn't bore you or anyone else here. That is how my Company "Escaped" from Iraq!

Bill G.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 31, 2009)

I was not based out of BIAP. I was based out of Speicher in Tikrit. I just flew missions into BIAP on an almost daily basis. 

Yeah I know where Camp Victory is. I flew Gen. Sanchez into Victory several times and once to his actual "house" where he lived and worked. I also would fly into Washington Pad quite often as well as into the "Green Zone". They had a good Pizza place set up there in the Green Zone.


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## Bill G. (Jan 31, 2009)

Dear DerAdlerIstGelandet:

Victory was the team's first mission. Our mission was comm support to Gen Sanchez's Quarters. We did this from July to September 2003. I had to go into his bedroom to check the phones from time to time. First I made certain he wasn't there!

Our communications trucks were right across the road under cammo netting. One day a Blackhawk flew so low over our site, it knocked down all of the cammo and all but trapped me in the shelter. I hope that wasn't you that did that!

The team's quarters was a "Beach Front Condo" two doors down from Sanchez. It was also across the street from the helipad. We quickly became the welcome wagon for the helipad.

One day we had two Blackhawks that had a long lay over that hot day. We invited the crews in for some A/C and cold water. Later they had to do a test hop. Our Motor Sergeant that was staying with us asked if they would take passengers. The crews said yes. Hearing that I dug out my buried battle rattle to be first in line. The Blackhawk I rode in was piloted by a female LT. The other Blackhawk had problems. One engine wouldn't start.

I kept an eye on the crews as they worked to fix the Blackhawk. They got it fixed, but were beyond crew rest so they had to spend the night. I asked where they were going to stay. They said Hotel Sikorsky. I told them that is a no go. You all are bunking with us. Don't ask me how yet, but we will find room.

We did. We had Soldiers everywhere that night. I got up to pee in the middle of the night and the house looked like a mass casualty exercise. Bodies everywhere. And all but me asleep!

The next morning some wanted to go the the PX. The rest we took across the bay to the Aussie compound. They got to go swimming. I am sure they all left happy with a story to tell. I am just wondering if they were believed.

Bill G.
Kilo One Three
Where we keep the blackout light on for you!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 31, 2009)

I too am sure they left very happy. We also were always pretty lucky if we PL'd into some location. The local troops were always friendly and ready to help us.


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## Blaydon (Feb 8, 2009)

Gulf 2005


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 9, 2009)

We used to find that **** all the time flying around. We would save the coordinates in the GPS and then they would go out and blow them up.


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## Blaydon (Feb 9, 2009)

Yeah that was my job you know i used to feel nervous walking out to an incident but after being shot at and mortared the ones where there was just the device seemed like a gift from god.


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## batcocan (Jun 22, 2009)

Me at a New Years Day Levee 1994-95-I'll see if I can find any more
Cheers,
Matthew


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## Astaldo711 (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm not in the military so please forgive my intrusion. I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all of you. No matter the nationality, or whether you were in combat or not. I wanted to join the Marine Corps but screwed up my life but good. I had dropped out of High School and had a child by the time I was 19.
Several members of my family were in the service; father - Army Air force, Brother - Marine Corps, Nephew - Marine Corps, Brother in Law - Army. I also have a friend that was in the 101st until he was wounded in Iraq. He went to West Point and coached Rugby. He is now with the 10th Mountain Division in "The 'Stan".
Thank you all again.


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## diddyriddick (Sep 17, 2009)

Astaldo711 said:


> I'm not in the military so please forgive my intrusion. I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all of you. No matter the nationality, or whether you were in combat or not. I wanted to join the Marine Corps but screwed up my life but good. I had dropped out of High School and had a child by the time I was 19.
> Several members of my family were in the service; father - Army Air force, Brother - Marine Corps, Nephew - Marine Corps, Brother in Law - Army. I also have a friend that was in the 101st until he was wounded in Iraq. He went to West Point and coached Rugby. He is now with the 10th Mountain Division in "The 'Stan".
> Thank you all again.



My sentiments exactly. My hat is off.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 17, 2009)

As I think this here Navy Squid can speak for all of us Vets here, ur welcome, and thanks for the sentiments...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2009)

Dan is right. Thank you.


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## RabidAlien (Sep 17, 2009)

Agree with both of the above. Thanks, bro!


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## Messy1 (Oct 27, 2009)

Agree with all here thanking all those who have served their country! I come from a Navy family with the exception of one of my Dad's brothers who is the outcast in the family. He served in the Army! Thanks you to all those who have served and continue to serve. This country was built on the backs of of those who chose to serve and protect this nation. Thanks to all those who have sacrificed to maintain the way of life we often times take for granted. Also thanks to all those soldiers and veterans from our allies in other countries who have done the same!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 21, 2009)

Well I figured I would post this one up. A friend of mine posted this on facebook, and it made me think of that deployment. This picture was taken of me and several people from my unit as well as some German soldiers that we had befriended. This photo was taken in Kosovo back in 2003. I am of course the one kneeling on the far right of the picture.


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## Matt308 (Dec 21, 2009)

Very cool, Adler.


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## Night Fighter Nut (Feb 26, 2010)

It's amazing what one finds when searching other parts of this forum. I have a photo of my wife and I taken some years ago at a friends wedding. My friends were Air Force and I was Army. They had never seen Army Dress Blues before so I thought I would wear mine.


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## vikingBerserker (Feb 26, 2010)

I have to admit, I've always thought the dress blues were sharp.


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 26, 2010)

Very cool!


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## bromhead (Dec 23, 2012)

Bromhead,,21 years and one month,,just back to the world


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## Bryan McLarty (Jan 4, 2013)

View attachment 220567





Performing oral surgery - Me, standing on the left.


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## Marcel (Apr 10, 2013)

Nice pic, Brian.  so you were a dentist then?


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## tyrodtom (Apr 11, 2013)

Why is it dentist seem to have the biggest hands ? 
Or worse the proctologists ?


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## Soldier (Oct 7, 2013)

Taken in 2005


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## Njaco (Oct 8, 2013)

Add to the members list!


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## Matt308 (Oct 8, 2013)

Hell yes!!


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## mikewint (Oct 9, 2013)

I'm OLD....What can I say...happens when you live too long

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## parsifal (Oct 15, 2013)

Mike, I would say youve aged gracefully and with honour my friend.

Bravo Zulu


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## mikewint (Oct 15, 2013)

Parsifal, my dear friend, your white lie is most appreciated but I have mirrors at home. The uniform still fits mostly but ONLY because I used to bench 300lbs (150kg)
Not the good looking kid but the old guy in the back with sunglasses

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## Njaco (Oct 16, 2013)

I agree with Parsifal!!


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## mikewint (Oct 16, 2013)

Hmmm, hold at arm's length and read the second line...


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## ade (Aug 2, 2014)

Hi,

New to this forum...that's me back row second from the left.

taken in the falkland islands a few months ago.


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## Wildcat (Aug 2, 2014)

Welcome mate! The woman looks cold


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 2, 2014)

Very cool pic! How did you like the Falklands?


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## Donivanp (May 7, 2015)

My wonderful wife and myself at my retirement ceremony, July 1997.
Myself in 1977 after arriving a Kessler AFB, MS for tech school and myself when I was NCOIC of the 305th Doppler Nav shop Grissom AFB, IN.

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## vikingBerserker (May 15, 2015)

Very cool!


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## ARTESH (Aug 29, 2017)

Ahvaz






IZEH






AndimeshK






Ahvaz






Border Iran - Iraq

Iran: Unk - Alot Road

In Front of: Suraban in Iraq​

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## vikingBerserker (Sep 1, 2017)

Nice!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 1, 2017)

I remember standing in Iraq on the Iranian border looking into Iran back in 2004...

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## ARTESH (Dec 24, 2017)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I remember standing in Iraq on the Iranian border looking into Iran back in 2004...


It's something about 1000 km long border,

Can you remember where were you?

and what were you thinking at the moment?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 24, 2017)

ARTESH said:


> It's something about 1000 km long border,
> 
> Can you remember where were you?
> 
> and what were you thinking at the moment?



No I do not remember the exact location. There was a small US Army Camp there on the border. We had just flown a General out to the camp for a meeting being held there. I remember our helicopter getting a T/R Gear Box Chip Light, and we spent the whole day stuck there. As for what I was thinking? Damn, this is going to suck sleeping in the floor of my helicopter.

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## ARTESH (Dec 24, 2017)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> No I do not remember the exact location. There was a small US Army Camp there on the border. We had just flown a General out to the camp for a meeting being held there. I remember our helicopter getting a T/R Gear Box Chip Light, and we spent the whole day stuck there. As for what I was thinking? Damn, this is going to suck sleeping in the floor of my helicopter.


now, I'm pretty sure that it was not in Kurdistan.

Maybe central or southern border !!!

I don't know what to say ?

I am just glad that you survived that hell !!!

They've discharged me, cause I said I don't want to go to Iraq !!!

I've spent 10 month in prison, but it costs.

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## billrunnels (Jun 6, 2018)

My picture taken at Hunter Field, Georgia when picking up a new B-17 G to deliver to the UK. The other is a shot of the "Greenhouse"

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## manta22 (Sep 19, 2019)

SP5 Neil P Albaugh in Babenhausen, Germany. Cold War 1960-1963.

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## Chris H (Oct 11, 2019)

A few of me during my Army days. The first one was taken on the Hong Kong/China border. The one in ceremonial uniform was taken in Germany. We had a few suits and one fitted me, so I used to get called upon for ceremonial occasions! The one of me on top of a Land Rover was also taken in Germany in the 1970s. The last photo is of me and a US Army pal, taken in Riyadh just after the end of the first Gulf War in February 1991. Jeff and I had both served behind the Iron Curtain during the 1980s!

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## oldcrowcv63 (Apr 10, 2020)

First photo was taken in the Spring of 1974 on the forward flight deck of the Kitty Hawk during a WestPAC cruise. Photo was to be a spoof referring to the gas lines in the states and the call to begin car pooling to conserve gas (Petrol). The Skipper thought it would get the squadron some PR in something like Stars and Stripes or Navy Times, during what was otherwise an uneventful cruise. (or at least was uneventful, after the Ship survived an engine room fire that killed 4 sailors) Aviator Skipper is standing on the left seat, NFO Command ECMO is in on the right. ECMO-3 is standing half-into his assigned right-rear seat, and that's me (ECMO-2) climbing up the ladder showing typical confusion about which side of the plane I am supposed to be on... Fifteen years later, in the Reserves, What happens after a long day (or night) chasing Russkie Subs in the Mid-Atlantic... Pilot can find his own way home, yawn...

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## Zipper730 (Apr 22, 2020)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> It is called the Future Warrior system. It is currently being tested though by Spec Ops and will by 2025 be in use Army wide. I saw it at the Army's Land Combat Expo in Heidelberg, Germany. It is a NATO Expo held each year at the US Army military post there


Provided it's not classified, is this system still a go for 2025?



Matt308 said:


> HALO. Lot's of work to do before that becomes front line. Add rations, ammo and weapon and... what about maintenance?


I see maintenance as being the biggest issue. The second biggest issue, reasonably speaking would probably be the display and comms system. If somebody knew what they were doing, they could make the "HUD" all go one color and render the operator effectively blind). While he could probably take off his helmet or flip the visor up, it would expose his face.

I figure, if some guy sitting in his underwear on an aviation forum can think of this -- there's gotta be at least a few hundred people way smarter than me who has thought of this.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 22, 2020)

Zipper730 said:


> Provided it's not classified, is this system still a go for 2025?



No. They lied to us...

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## wlewisiii (Apr 1, 2022)

C co 1st BN 13th Armor (now back to Cav) assigned 1st Armor Division, Illesheim, FRG, 1983

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## Thumpalumpacus (Apr 2, 2022)

Both from BMTS, 1989.

Carswell AFB, 1991:

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## manta22 (Oct 11, 2022)

Me on a field training exercise in our assembly area in Wasserlos, Germany in June 1963. Armed with an M-14 rifle, Randall Model 1 fighting knife, Walther PP pistol, & 2 grenades. We never knew whether an Alert was the real thing or not. We always responded to an Alert fully armed.

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## GrauGeist (Oct 11, 2022)

Thumpalumpacus said:


> View attachment 663461
> 
> 
> View attachment 663462
> ...


I see Lackland '89 - you missed my Uncle by a few years, then.
He was a TI for several years before transferring to Izmir, Turkey around 1986.

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## manta22 (Oct 12, 2022)

GrauGeist said:


> I see Lackland '89 - you missed my Uncle by a few years, then.
> He was a TI for several years before transferring to Izmir, Turkey around 1986.





https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/663462/



That reminds me of my basic training at Ft Knox, KY.They always pick the tallest guy in the company as the guideon bearer. Not a fun job!


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## soulezoo (Oct 17, 2022)

Thumpalumpacus said:


> View attachment 663461
> 
> 
> View attachment 663462
> ...


I was just a couple of years ahead of you (at least we got our picture in front of the Phantom!) On the down side, I was there late July through early Sept. Damn it was hot!

Then onto the armpit of the country.... Sheppard AFB for Crew Chief training.

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## Thumpalumpacus (Oct 17, 2022)

soulezoo said:


> I was just a couple of years ahead of you (at least we got our picture in front of the Phantom!) On the down side, I was there late July through early Sept. Damn it was hot!
> 
> Then onto the armpit of the country.... Sheppard AFB for Crew Chief training.



I go a couple of pics in front of the Thud at the 301st, and also in my firetruck at work, but those, along with many family pics burned up in a storage fire many years ago.


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## manta22 (Oct 17, 2022)

Thumpalumpacus said:


> I go a couple of pics in front of the Thud at the 301st, and also in my firetruck at work, but those, along with many family pics burned up in a storage fire many years ago.


It is a shame to loose such precious memories.

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## Thumpalumpacus (Oct 17, 2022)

manta22 said:


> It is a shame to loose such precious memories.



It was one of the more heart-breaking moments in my life. I lost pics of family stepping off the boat in 1905, amongst other treasures.

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