# Malta's Gladiators



## johnny (Sep 22, 2004)

Does anyone know if there is any truth to story about 3 gladiator biplanes defending Malta in 1941.Think they were called faith , hope and charity.Or was it just a british propaganda idea.Im sure that there was a Gladiator sqn on Malta but cannot believe that only 3 biplanes could withstand hordes of Bf109f and others.


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## MichaelHenley (Sep 22, 2004)

It is true. THere was an article a few FlyPasts back about them (British aviation magazine)


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## johnny (Sep 22, 2004)

How did they survive? did they survive for very long?


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## MichaelHenley (Sep 22, 2004)

One of them has had its wings removed and is in some museum, faith, i think


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## johnny (Sep 22, 2004)

probably had its wings removed with cannon shells! Must have been damn good pilots ( or stupid suicidal kamikaze) to have done what they did.


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## johnny (Sep 22, 2004)

Quick question .I'm new to this site.How do you guys get your plane pics on the bottom of your messages.Have been in my profile and cannot seem to get it right.Maybe I'm not looking right.(cannot see out of the turret)


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## MichaelHenley (Sep 22, 2004)

BTW: The Wings were _ carefully_ removed and were somwhere else.
The Pics are called signiatures. you can fiddle around with them in one of the threads in the Off topic/misc section.


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## johnny (Sep 22, 2004)

Still cant get that signature thing right.Tried copy/paste to no avail.Will keep trying though.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 22, 2004)

go read the signature/avatar thread in the MISC section... It tells how there....


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## johnny (Sep 22, 2004)

Hopw to have got it ?!


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 22, 2004)

I don't think Faith, Hope, and Charity had to face too many 109s. I believe the campaign against Malta was pretty much an RA affair at the time.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 22, 2004)

I agree... I dont know if they even faced -109's while stationed there...


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## johnny (Sep 22, 2004)

True . I dont think they had the range.


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## johnny (Sep 22, 2004)

Even if they werent facing 109s I would hate to face 1 kampfgruppe in a gladiator.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 22, 2004)

no- they didn't face 109's when they were there, only a couple of italain fighters, there were originally 4 but one got shot down on the first sortie, and while it is true, allot of it is the invention of propergander, they only had the glad's for a couple of weeks when 4 hurricanes were found........


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 22, 2004)

But it is still true that they fought with such ferocity that the Italians estimated their numbers to be 50.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 22, 2004)

Ferocity from a Biplane.... Now thats funny..... Them damn Eyetalianos....


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## johnny (Sep 23, 2004)

I'm surpised they could even catch those Eyties , and attack them .Didnt the Itallian planes have 4 tailgunners , to defend themselves while racing back home.


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## Gemhorse (Sep 24, 2004)

Well Johnny, it's a very true story about 'Faith, Hope and Charity'. - They were a rude awakening for the Italian Air Force, the 'Regia Aeronautica', and did a terrific job holding Malta until better reinforcements arrived...It's a great read, written by Kenneth Poolman, and I thoroughly recommend it....


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## Gemhorse (Sep 24, 2004)

I notice that the Amazon-server hasn't got it...the copy I have is a 'New English Library' paper-back, 1974. - It was first published in 1954 by William Kimber Co. Ltd. 
- For all those 'Gladiator-scoffers' out there, this story will change your opinion of this, the 'Last of the Fighting Biplanes'....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 24, 2004)

> and did a terrific job holding Malta until better reinforcements arrived



the re-inforcements in question being a pathetic 4 hurricanes..............


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## Gemhorse (Sep 27, 2004)

All in all, they lost some battles, but they won the war to keep Malta, against overwhelming odds...Malta's story is one of real courage and fortitude, something that would make any Englishman and Commonwealth citizen PROUD....


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## johnny (Sep 27, 2004)

Rule Brittania! Just shows what a lots of courage and ingenuity can do.


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## johnny (Sep 27, 2004)

It has always surprised me why the krauts never took Malta.Due to its strategic importance it should have been taken.They could then have strangle the supply lines to Monties 8th Army , set up a u-boat base and airbase and probably won the Africa campaign.


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 27, 2004)

That's the thing: the Germans never made a real effort to take Malta. I think an interesting 'what-if' would be, what if instead of wasting his highly effective paratroops over Corsica Hitler had used them to secure Malta?


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## johnny (Sep 27, 2004)

Would have been serious S**T for the Allies!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 27, 2004)

we wouldn't have won the war in north africa if we didn't have malta..........


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## lesofprimus (Sep 27, 2004)

Definate agreement there....


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## Gemhorse (Sep 27, 2004)

The History is well-worth the read ! - The Maltese people were very brave also, the tonnage of bombs dropped would be a study, the Axis Forces did try really hard to take Malta....the fact they couldn't achieve total Air Superiority determined that paratroops couldn't be used....and all in all, it was a decisive battle, because Rommel's resupplys couldn't be protected from our Beauforts, [and I think the RN's Swordfish were even employed at times]...-It was a very close thing, and it was one of those battles that folk don't really appreciate for the enormous 'keystone' that held the whole Axis battleplan in the Mediterranean, in place....they lost that and the Med and then Sicily, Italy and on into Germany, so it was very crucial....'Faith, Hope and Charity' is an awesome read......


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 29, 2004)

many torpedo planes were operated in the med, swordfish, beauforts, beaufighters, wellingtons, i've just read a book called "the ship busters" about half the book's about the war in the med...............


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 29, 2004)

I bet that would be an interesting read. I've always found the anti-shipping missions to be fascinating.


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## plan_D (Sep 29, 2004)

Rommel was one of the people who didn't want to waste time with Malta. So, he can partly be blamed for the lack of effort on German side. 

It was Crete...Corsica?


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## Gemhorse (Oct 7, 2004)

Actually, it wasn't Rommel that was to blame....he would've been wrapt if they'd sorted Malta out, because it was the extraordinary defensive and offensive tactics of the small forces on the island that kept stuffing-up his supply convoys...they WERE the 'thorn in his side'... - The blame lay squarely at Hitler's feet, as he was going into Russia and drew-off much needed aircraft for that, Crete and the Western Desert and he also ruled-out a paratroop invasion after the heavy losses incurred capturing Crete;... then there was doubt [well placed] as to whether the Italian Navy could do it's bit...and besides, they still couldn't achieve Air Superiority over Malta...Between first Blenheims, then Beauforts based at Luqa, combining with the RN Submarines based at Lazaretto, they punched out the supply convoys...this was why Rommel was fatally overstretched at El Alamein...his problem was then compounded by the Axis stopping it's saturation attacks briefly on Malta, which gave them a much needed respite to restore their strike and defence. - As for the Hurricanes, in the early Spring of 1942, they were out-performed by the new Bf-109F's, but never out-flown, because our fellows were so good. Those pilots were experienced peacetime, France and BoB pilots, even if they were flying half a dozen/dozen [ depending on serviceability] clapped-out Hurri's. These were followed by about 16 Spitfires...they didn't last long and 46 flew in April '42...after 48 hours, only 7 were serviceable. They then got another 64 in, followed by another 17 twelve days later...That finally helped turn the tide........


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## plan_D (Oct 7, 2004)

Actually Rommel was one of the generals that opposed the invasion of Malta because it would take his air cover away. Rommel advanced into Eygpt even after he was advised to hold on the border while he could be re-inforced and the Malta problem be solved. 

Rommels over-excitment with his push past Tobruk led him to lead the Afrika Corps into a near impossible situation. Had Rommel agreed to the execution of an invasion of Malta and waited on the Eygptian border then the needed aircraft would have been diverted. 

So although not all blame is on Rommel, some is and not all was on Hitlers shoulders because he wanted Malta in German hands more than anyone.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 8, 2004)

malta would have won them the war in africa............


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## plan_D (Oct 9, 2004)

Is that your argument against my facts or are you just stating the obvious?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 9, 2004)

it's more what i would have told rommel at the time..................


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## plan_D (Oct 9, 2004)

He was informed of the strategic advantages of taking Malta before moving on into Eygpt. He was well aware of the facts, but he felt that a crushing blow must be dealt to the British 8th Army as soon as possible. 

He was wrong to rush on ahead...but he could have never been right all the time. He was wrong, again during his organisation of the Panzer Divisions before D-Day.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 9, 2004)

to make a mistake once is only human, to make a mistake twice, is just plane stupid................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 9, 2004)

Or normal in my case.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 10, 2004)

true...........

and can i just point out i know that's not the actuall quote, i took some liberties with it.................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 10, 2004)

Tut tut tut, you're lucky i cant distinguish them


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 10, 2004)

to be honest i can't remember the exact quote.............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 10, 2004)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 10, 2004)

and as you can barely remember to get dressed in the morning i won't ask if you can remember....................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 10, 2004)

Where did you collect that information


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## lesofprimus (Oct 12, 2004)

A Crackerjack Box... Or was it a box of Kellogs Frosted Flakes???


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 13, 2004)

both are equally ing..............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 13, 2004)

Agreed


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## lesofprimus (Oct 14, 2004)

Crackerjacks are awesome..... Especially at a baseball game....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 14, 2004)

Well ive never tried crackerjacks before


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## lesofprimus (Oct 14, 2004)

You should.. Carmel coated popcorn with peanuts.. And u get a small suprise in each box...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 15, 2004)

Wow that sounds pretty yum 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 15, 2004)

i hate popcorn, with a passion...............


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## lesofprimus (Oct 15, 2004)

Ur missing out.... More for me.....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 15, 2004)

No no no, more for us, the popcorn belongs to me...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 16, 2004)

it's ing!!! i can't believe you people actually want more of the stuff!!!


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 16, 2004)

The same could be said about your love of sheep...


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## Maestro (Oct 16, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> The same could be said about your love of sheep...



That was a "sheep" shot...  

Sorry, easy one.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 17, 2004)

i didn't think even you could go that low CC


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 17, 2004)

Dude I actually thought that was pretty good  I could never come up with that


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 18, 2004)

the sheep one was good yes..................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 18, 2004)

They were both about sheep  Which sheep one?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 19, 2004)

the "sheep shot" one..................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 19, 2004)

Ah 8) I thought you meant that one...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 20, 2004)

i wouldn't have been able to think of that one......................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 20, 2004)

Me neither, which is sad really because it seems so bloody obvious


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## Maestro (Oct 20, 2004)

Most interresting is that it was thought by a French-Canadian...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 20, 2004)

Being perfectly honest, id love to be French-Canadian 8)


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## Maestro (Oct 20, 2004)

Thats weird... You're British and you would like to be French-Canadian and I'm a French-Canadian who would like to be British... or fly away, far away from Québec and never get back...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 20, 2004)

I just wanna live in Canada  Britain is a confusing place sometimes...


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## Maestro (Oct 20, 2004)

Okay... But why Canada instead of USA ? It's almost the same lifestyle and you would have more freedom than in Canada. Canada is on a verge to explode... West-Canada (wich are rich provinces) want to leave Canada and become a part of USA and 48% of Québecers want Québec to become a country (against 52% who don't want to). Leaving Ontario on it's own and New-Brunswick, Nova-Scotia and New-Foundland in a poor Confederation.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 20, 2004)

I mean north Canada, somewhere near the mountains. I dont like America.


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## Maestro (Oct 20, 2004)

Never heard about the Rockies ? They start North of British Columbia (part of West-Canada) and they go down to California.

Otherwise, there is Yukon... If you like cold temperature and snow.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 20, 2004)

Yeah The rockies is what im on about, is there evergreen forests around there?


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## MichaelHenley (Oct 20, 2004)

My Dad went to the Rockies in '98.


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## Maestro (Oct 20, 2004)

The lone evergreen forests we have are composed of pine and fir (or fir-tree, don't know how you call them). You can see them almost everywhere across Canada. But the most common forests are mixed ones.


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## evangilder (Oct 20, 2004)

There is also the Sierras. It is very beautiful up there!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 22, 2004)

CC we have forrests in england you know................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 23, 2004)

Crappy forests...

Canada's forests are better 8)


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## Maestro (Oct 23, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> Crappy forests...
> 
> Canada's forests are better 8)



Better, I don't know. But BIGGER, they are !


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2004)

hey hey hey CC, we have what are widely accepted as the oldest trees in the world....................


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

The oldest trees in the world are in Africa and are called Baobab (sp)Trees....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2004)

anything over 5 meters in diammeter are considdered ancient, we have trees 10 meters in diammeter................


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

U didnt say Ancient, u said Oldest.... The Northern California Sequoia, or Redwood Tree, are regarded as the largest trees in the world....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> hey hey hey CC, we have what are widely accepted as the oldest trees in the world....................



Evergreen forests are better than deciduous forests, especially big ones with snow-capped mountains on the other side  (damn its a long time since ive said deciduous  )


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2004)

that word has very limited posibilities for use i agree...............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

Yeah, I think primary school was the last time i used it


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 25, 2004)

our headteacher used to use it allot.....................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 25, 2004)

Our old headteacher had a beard longer than a stretch limo...


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## MichaelHenley (Oct 26, 2004)

Lanc, Was your headteacher deciduous?


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 26, 2004)

Nah, I bet he was evergreen and just hated deciduous trees, therefore use of the word in his insults was vital


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 26, 2004)

yes, and i still use that word as an insult today.................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 26, 2004)

"Go away lanc, you deciduous tree"   

8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 27, 2004)

you know your words, sometimes they hurt


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 27, 2004)

I never said that, I was quoting it from someone else...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 28, 2004)

good point, surely such an offensive post should be cencored??


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 28, 2004)

Yes, I shall have a word with horse and get him to censor the word "deciduous"


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## MichaelHenley (Oct 29, 2004)

Stop swearing! The both of you! I would expect better of children your age


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 29, 2004)

Children!  :O

I am offended, I prefer to be referred to as an adolescent male


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 29, 2004)

male?? come on CC, you're not fooling anyone..................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 29, 2004)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 30, 2004)

ha, you've been rumbled..................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 30, 2004)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 30, 2004)

don't deny it!!


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 30, 2004)

I didnt


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 31, 2004)

i could tell by the tone of your voice.................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 31, 2004)

Youre just jealous...


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## GermansRGeniuses (Oct 31, 2004)

Of what?

Your happy hole?


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 31, 2004)

He has his own "happy hole", but he need to be with others for it to become one


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 31, 2004)

i resent that................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 31, 2004)

Ive never heard the term "happy hole", but i rather like it


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 1, 2004)

i don't, i think it's biased against unhappy hole.................


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 1, 2004)

Or moderatly average hole...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 2, 2004)

and the holes that can't decide..................


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 2, 2004)

And indeed the holes that are social outcasts.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 5, 2004)

ah but the holes that are socail outcasts will proberly still have an opinion as to which catagory of hole they are................


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 5, 2004)

But because theyre social outcasts, no-one listens to what they have to say  Which is why they have to have their own category 

This is one of those mindless discussions me thinks


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