# Pirates kill 4 Americans



## mikewint (Feb 22, 2011)

NAIROBI, Kenya — Four Americans taken hostage by Somali pirates off East Africa were shot and killed by their captors Tuesday, the U.S. military said, marking the first time U.S. citizens have been killed in a wave of pirate attacks plaguing the Gulf of Aden and the Indian Ocean for years.

U.S. naval forces who were trailing the Americans' captured yacht with four warships quickly boarded the vessel after hearing the gunfire. They tried to provide lifesaving care to the Americans, but they died of their wounds, U.S. Central Command in Tampa, Florida said in a statement.

A member of a U.S. special operations force killed one of the pirates with a knife as he went inside of the yacht, said Vice Adm. Mark Fox, commander of U.S. naval forces for Central Command.

Fox said in a televised briefing that the violence on Tuesday started when a rocket-propelled grenade was fired from the yacht at the USS Sterett, a guided-missile destroyer 600 yards (meters) away. The RPG missed and almost immediately afterward small arms fire was heard coming from the yacht, Fox said.

President Barack Obama, who was notified about the deaths at 4:42 a.m. Washington time, had authorized the military on Saturday to use force in case of an imminent threat to the hostages, said White House spokesman Jay Carney.

A total of two pirates, including the one who was knifed, died during the ensuing confrontation — which happened around 9 a.m. East Africa time — and 13 were captured and detained, the Central Command said. The remains of two other pirates who were already dead for some time were also found. The U.S. military didn't state how those two died. It was unclear if the pirates had fought among themselves.

Negotiations had been under way to try to win the release of the two couples on the pirated vessel Quest when the gunfire was heard, the U.S. military said. Fox, asked by reporters about the nature of the negotiations, said he had no details.

He identified the slain Americans as Jean and Scott Adam, of Marina del Rey near Los Angeles, and Phyllis Macay and Bob Riggle, of Seattle, Washington.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 22, 2011)

13 pirates captured and detained. Why? None of them deserve to be detained. They should have been thrown overboard with their legs cut and bleeding to attract sharks.


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## mudpuppy (Feb 22, 2011)

Geez! Those bone-heads fired an RPG at a USN Destroyer??!! I do feel for the families of the 4 people slain but I'm with the poster above in why would we detain these ruthless brigands?


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## mikewint (Feb 22, 2011)

Because we're the NICE guys. However they will probably receive a long prison term, three squares per day, warm bunk, TV, etc. at tax payer expense. A higher standard of living than what they now have in their own country


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## Matt308 (Feb 22, 2011)

I would say the pirates have just won the proverbial lottery. The Uniited States new Somali immigration policy. Just brilliant.


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## tyrodtom (Feb 22, 2011)

Not taking prisoners might seem like a good idea at first, but think about going up against someone who knows he's fighting to the death, you might take more loses yourself.

I know several on this forum are combat veterans, and taking prisoners sometimes is hard to stomach, especially when they've just killed some of your own.

When they want to surrender, let them, not because we're the good guys, but because it's the best policy in the long run. Then sometimes there is the possibility of getting some useful information from prisoners.


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## GrauGeist (Feb 22, 2011)

Traditionally, they hung pirates (or worse) and it might not be a bad idea to bring that old tradition back...

Every time these asshats head out to sea to commit more of thier idiocy, they'd have to pass the breakwater gallows where all of thier buddies are dangling, the gulls picking away at thier rotting corpses...

Might make 'em think twice before ending up the same way...


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## mikewint (Feb 22, 2011)

Tyro - I do understand where you are coming from but once they had killed the Americans, in cold blood, there was simply no reason to keep them alive. I have also seen people pretending to surrender until you got close along with women and children being "friendly" until - because the world knows we're the good and nice guys. Unless you've been there the mind set is difficult to comprehend


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## tyrodtom (Feb 22, 2011)

Well, I have been there. The same war as you.

True, some of the pirates were hung as soon as they were captured, but some got trials, and then hung.


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## Erich (Feb 22, 2011)

more action please ............ from the navies of the world, shoot on sight, no more of this crap for fear of entering this sea worthy space.


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## RabidAlien (Feb 22, 2011)

Couple of observations:

1. Why were these Americans (hard to call them idiots, out of respect for the dead, but still...) out sailing in KNOWN pirate-infested waters?

2. Give the SF guy that shivved the pirate a case of beer and two free passes to the local boom-boom joint! 'Course, some douchebag looking for TV-time here in the states will probably start screaming that he violated the pirate's rights....

3. Unless they were under strict orders to bring back as many prisoners as possible, why did the SF guys bring so many back? Yes...we're the good guys. But sometimes being "too good" gets you nothing but steamrolled by those who don't care.

4. I hope the trial for the surviving pirates is short, and they're released, alive and unharmed, afterwards. I'd say....150 miles from the nearest point of land. Yeah. That should do it.

5. Why did our forces have to wait until 4 US citizens were killed before they were issued an authorization "to use force in case of an imminent threat to the hostages"? Seeing what has happened to the citizens of other countries/allies, why did we have to wait so long to do the common-sense thing and stand up for ourselves, and our allies? Not trying to start a political debate here....it just seems to me that after the Maersk Alabama we would've taken them seriously. 

BTW, just found this little tidbit, a statement made by a pirate:


> Killing hostages "has now become part of our rules," said a pirate who identified himself as Muse Abdi. He referred as a turning point to last week's sentencing of a pirate to 33 years in prison for the 2009 attack on the U.S. cargo vessel the Maersk Alabama — just two days before the hijacking.
> 
> "From now on, anyone who tries to rescue the hostages in our hands will only collect dead bodies," Abdi said. "It will never, ever happen that hostages are rescued and we are hauled to prison." 4 American hostages killed by pirates off Somalia - Yahoo! News


 That, to me, sounds like a challenge. Gloves are off, send in the SEALS.


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## javlin (Feb 22, 2011)

"From now on, anyone who tries to rescue the hostages in our hands will only collect dead bodies," Abdi said. "It will never, ever happen that hostages are rescued and we are hauled to prison." 

That RA says from here on out just blow the ship with a 5" round and call it quits the hostages are already dead.


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## mikewint (Feb 22, 2011)

RA, As I understand it they (Americans) were missionaries who had been delivering Bibles up and down the coast to small villages. Our forces waited and negotiated because the pirates had been in the business not of killing but of ransoming hostages so the threat had been of the ship reaching land and the American disappearing into the interior not of them being murdered.
Tyrod, apologies brother, I've just seen too many friends killed being nice to some young kid, girl, or grandmother.
Was an interview on TV with some young Somali kid who basically hired on to be a pirate much as one of our kids would get a job at Wal-mart. The interviewer stated that pirating is a 200 - 300 million dollar a year business in Somalia.
Time to cut into their profit margin by raising the cost to do business


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## RabidAlien (Feb 22, 2011)

mikewint said:


> Time to cut into their profit margin by raising the cost to do business



Amen.

Gotcha, hadn't heard the reasoning behind why they were there. Makes sense, although there's probably safer ways of getting Bibles in there other than using a yacht.


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## GrauGeist (Feb 22, 2011)

Two things here...first off, it wasn't the SF oper's fault that the dumbass attacked the knife with his neck, he should have known better! It's a good thing the knife took the brunt of the attack.

Secondly, I'm still all for the sub idea...run at periscope depth, looking for the mother ships, make contact and wait for the motor launches to go out. Shadow them (the motor launches) a ways and silently come up and take 'em out...scatter their remains and then slide back under quietly...no fan-fare, no press...nothing....they're just gone *poof*

Once word starts getting around that thier numbers are dwindling without a trace, I'm willing to bet it wouldn't seem so exciting and profitable to be a pirate anymore...

And of course, stretch any necks of the ones they do catch alive.

*Also* just had an idea...the Germans ran surface raiders in WWII disguised as Merchantmen...why can't they get a few gunboats out there disguised as private boats...when the skinnies go to make thier moves, drop the sides (or whatever) and let fly with some fun stuff...just a thought.


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## javlin (Feb 22, 2011)

And of course, stretch any necks of the ones they do catch alive

With a rope soaked in pigs blood of course.Who was it Gen Pershing(?) in the S.Pacific having some problems with some Muslims back in the early part of the 20th century.Soaked the bullets in pigs blood killed all but one let him go back and tell his brother'n what happened  frickin skinnys


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## Erich (Feb 23, 2011)

hmmmmmmmmmmm maybe another opportunity to investigate the useage of air drones ?

death to pirates


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## javlin (Feb 23, 2011)

Erich said:


> hmmmmmmmmmmm maybe another opportunity to investigate the useage of air drones ?
> 
> death to pirates



You know what I thought would be nice is to pull out the New Jersey park her off the coast and pound the u-know -what out of the coast line.I heard tonight these skinny's are building nice houses and driving Mercedes with the ransom money right along the coast .


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## mikewint (Feb 24, 2011)

I like Grau's idea about using subs or tasking some satellites over the area. 
Or how about an idea from WWII when the Germans used "Commerce Raiders", i.e. ships that looked like freighters but carried armament. Or a nice looking yacht with a seal team on board and a Sub shadow. Lure the SOBs out and pirate the pirates


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## GrauGeist (Feb 24, 2011)

Yeah, the idea of a Surface Raider disguised as a light freighter would be ideal. As soon as the asshats get within optimal range, drop the sides of the "cargo", exposing the Phalanx turrets (or similiar) and turn them into pink mist and an expanding debris field.

Button everything up and sail away for more fun and adventure...


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## Erich (Feb 24, 2011)

well it is obvious something needs to happen ........... even putting several ships as you guys mention "innocent looking" off thier coastline, then let the shells fly.


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## Thorlifter (Feb 24, 2011)

Yeah, time to stop being the "good guys" and time to show them we won't stand for this crap.


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## mikewint (Feb 24, 2011)

From what I can gather, a number of countries have warships in the immediate area but, no pirate is going to come anywhere near a warship and a warship can only be one place at a time. They (pirates) need to be lured into a trap


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## tyrodtom (Feb 24, 2011)

What has encouraged this is that in the past too many ransoms have been paid. The pirates got away with it, and some got rich too.

Once enough of the world sees that paying the ransoms is not a good long term solution, and avoiding the area doesn't work either, it just allows the pirates to range farther. 
It's not just Americas problem.


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## mikewint (Feb 24, 2011)

While I understand the concept that America is not the world's policeman, when an American citizen is murdered in cold blood it becomes America's problem.


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## Erich (Feb 24, 2011)

IT APPEARS THIS COULD BE A WELL ESTABLISHED PLOP ON THE PLANET TO TEST OUT NEW WEAPONS SYSTEMS FOR THE US

sorry for the caps, this whole thing is international


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## mikewint (Feb 24, 2011)

Erich, It is indeed international but the murdering of American citizens make it personal.
In the words of an old American flag


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## GrauGeist (Feb 24, 2011)

Here's what really pisses me off about the whole thing:

The first time the pirates killed a person, the whole freakin' world should have got serious. Period.

Now how many innocents have been killed up to this point? With as many assets that the world's Navies have in that area, and these douchbags still move about with inpunity?

I call bullshit, and shame on the UN and participating nations for thier lack of action. Laws against piracy are as old as man's ability to sail the waters of the world and there's no need for debate on what to do...it's pretty freakin' obvious.

So they need get off thier asses, stop thier politics and get this problem taken care of immediately.


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## Gnomey (Feb 24, 2011)

Agreed on the getting serious, it seems half the time there isn't enough "evidence" to convict therefore they are just picked up and dropped off again. Time to start putting some holes in them...

Surface raider idea would work but considering the pirates have attacked a warship mistakenly at least once already, they aren't the brightest bunch in the book.


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## pbfoot (Feb 24, 2011)

GrauGeist said:


> Here's what really pisses me off about the whole thing:
> 
> The first time the pirates killed a person, the whole freakin' world should have got serious. Period.
> 
> ...


I agree in principle its a lovely idea , but some of us have constitutions to uphold, no evidence no charges 

Canadian Navy: Operations Exercises

Credit: Cpl Peter Reed

HMCS Fredericton’s boarding party conducts an approach operation and boarding to investigate a suspected pirate skiff in the Gulf of Aden. 
HMCS Fredericton intercepted a suspected pirate skiff January 28 while conducting counter-piracy patrols as part of NATO Operation OCEAN SHIELD in the Gulf of Aden.

At 7:44 a.m. local time, Fredericton received reports from her helicopter during aerial patrols in the International Recommended Transit Corridor (IRTC) that they had spotted a small skiff loitering beside the shipping corridor approximately 45 nautical miles away from the ship. The helicopter, call sign Stalker, closed the position of the vessel. Upon detection, the skiff attempted to flee from the location but was stopped when Stalker continued to hover in front of the skiff to block escape. After several attempts to flee the area, the skiff’s occupants stopped their engines and waited.

Fredericton proceeded to the location at maximum speed to intercept and board the skiff.

With extra surveillance assistance provided by a helicopter from USS Farragut, a warship attached to Combined Task Force 151, Fredericton dispatched her naval boarding party to board the vessel and conduct a detailed search. Its mission was to ensure that no pirate material was onboard and, if there was, to confiscate it to prevent them from mounting any attacks.

There were no weapons or ammunition found, though Farragut’s helicopter did see what looked like boxes being tossed into the sea prior to the boarding party’s arrival at the skiff.

“As we approached the skiff, the group of six men onboard immediately raised their hands and followed our directions,” said Fredericton’s naval boarding party officer. “They were all of Somali descent and they did not have any equipment onboard that would identify them as legitimate merchants or fishermen.”

“This event demonstrates that pirates remain active in this area and the difficult mission it is to locate these small skiffs, whether from air or sea,” said Commander Steve Waddell, Commanding Officer of Fredericton. “In this particular case, though there was not enough evidence to detain the individuals, I do believe that we were able to prevent them from carrying out an attack on another vessel.”

The mission of OCEAN SHIELD is to deter and disrupt piracy in the Gulf of Aden, the Horn of Africa and the Somali Basin.


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## mikewint (Feb 24, 2011)

As Pb states, international warships have to follow rules which brings me back. If you want to catch a mouse you don't stake out your kitchen for 24 hours every day hoping to catch sight of him. You bait a trap and let him come to you


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## pbfoot (Feb 24, 2011)

I'm sorry for the loss of any life but were these US sailors that got caught in these waters mentally challenged ?Why would anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together go in these waters. To me its akin to flying down the length of the Berlin Wall in a Cessna 150 in 1961, or walking along the Iraq Iran border in 2009


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## RabidAlien (Feb 24, 2011)

Hmmm. Small skiff, loaded with Somalis, attempting to flee the area when a helicopter comes to investigate, then toss a bunch of boxes overboard. AND THAT'S NOT FRIKKIN ENOUGH TO PROVE THEY WERE THERE WITH EVIL INTENTIONS?????? Holy frikkin crap! Open up on the effers!!!!!

Question...anyone know what the laws would say if, for example, a group of "like-minded entrepreneurs" were to get together, start a small shipping company (oh, one or two mid-sized freighters), load up some freight, and then...in the interest of self-defense, of course...pack that sucker to the gills with defensive weaponry (ship-board and personal), then slowly and leisurely cruise around delivering the aforementioned freight? If its all done in self-defense, where the pirates attacked/boarded first....


Yeah, I know, vigilante-ism is generally frowned upon. But a guy can dream, can't he?


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## mikewint (Feb 24, 2011)

Pb, Your examples are violations of international law, since they violate the air space over the country and/or the land borders of a country. The oceans belong to no one and as such are international. Thus all are granted the right of free passage.
But I do understand you allusion. Ask for trouble and sooner or later it finds you.


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