# 12ft (3.7m) python kills toddler



## Colin1 (Jul 1, 2009)

Never classed these things as pets.
Some weird contradictions in there eg

"Most (of) the time, as long as you're careful, you don't have anything to worry about, but occasionally, they can turn on their owners,"

umm, so if it only tries to kill you 1 time out of every 100 times you handle it?

12ft long, 'like having a truck sitting on your chest', unpredictable, particularly dangerous around kids - kind of speaks for itself for me. 

12-Foot Python Strangles Toddler - Orlando News Story - WKMG Orlando


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## diddyriddick (Jul 1, 2009)

Too bad there isn't a law against being stoopid!


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## syscom3 (Jul 1, 2009)

I thought the same thing.

Things never to keep near a child:
Loaded weapons
Poison
Dangerous animals.


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## ellis995 (Jul 1, 2009)

Bang on the button with your response syscom3 couldn't agree more


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## Doughboy (Jul 1, 2009)

This just shows the stupidity of the parents... to have such a dangerous snake in the house... with a toddler!
I think it should be illegal to have such a dangerous animal in your house.


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## diddyriddick (Jul 1, 2009)

The worst part is that people don't realize how they kill. They don't just squeeze to death. They wrap up and wait for you to exhale, then constrict so you can't inhale. Scary.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 1, 2009)

I am an owner of snakes (okay at the moment I only own one, but I used to own several including a 10 ft Burmese).

1. Just because you have a snake in the house does not make you stupid. I am not stupid...

2. You have to take precautions, such as proper locks on the enclosures or doors that a snake can not open such as sliding doors.

3. Never let a child who can not handle a snake get near such a snake. Only small snakes should be handled by children (i.e. corn snakes, garter snakes, etc...)

4. Learn the way it behaves and you will be fine.

5. Take precautions as they said, and you will be fine.

I for one have owned snakes for almost 15 years (including a 10 footer as I stated above). I have never been attacked, never been bitten, never had a guest in my house bitten or attacked.

So please don't judge people that have snakes (even those with children) as stupid. Me and my wife are having children next year and we will not get rid our snake, in fact we are getting more snakes. A room in our house will dedicated to having as many as 20 different snakes in separate enclosures.

Guess what? Me and my wife are not stupid!

Now having said that, I feel sorry for what happened to this girl and family. It is a tragedy. This was probably avoidable with the precautions I said above. I also believe the snake was not held in a proper enclosure and not kept humanely (just my guess, it is a bit hard to keep a 12 foot snake in a humane enclosure, unless you have a bit of money). More than likely the snake was not fed properly either, which could explain why it went after the young girl.

Snakes are very misunderstood creatures. They are not evil, they are not out to attack humans or hurt them.

Here is a pic of my beautiful Ball Python that I have the moment. My wife used to be scared of snakes until we got her. Now she can take her out and feed her and everything. She too believes they are beautiful creatures now.









diddyriddick said:


> The worst part is that people don't realize how they kill. They don't just squeeze to death. They wrap up and wait for you to exhale, then constrict so you can't inhale. Scary.



No they don't! They crush you, they do not wait for you to exhale and strangle you. They crush you, and normally the prey is dead in less than a minute!


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## gumbyk (Jul 1, 2009)

> The Humane Society of the United States said including Wednesday's death, at least 12 people have been killed in the United States by pet pythons since 1980, including five children.



By my calculations, that makes one death every 2.5 years.

How many kids are killed by pet dogs each years in the US?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 1, 2009)

gumbyk said:


> By my calculations, that makes one death every 2.5 years.
> 
> How many kids are killed by pet dogs each years in the US?



Good post!

_The most recent official survey, conducted more than a decade ago, determined there were 4.7 million dog bite victims annually in the USA. A more recent study showed that 1,000 Americans per day are treated in emergency rooms as a result of dog bites. In 2007 there were 33 fatal dog attacks in the USA. Most of the victims who receive medical attention are children, half of whom are bitten in the face. Dog bite losses exceed $1 billion per year, with over $300 million paid by homeowners insurance."_

I am in no way against dogs by the way. I love dogs, and can't wait to have a few again. I have not had a dog in 15 years, because I refuse to have another one until my house is built.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 1, 2009)

*Edit to my other post!*


I will also stand correct to my other post. They do not crush, they do constrict by stopping the animal from breathing. It is not a scary thing however, and the prey is still dead very quickly. I have never waited for more than a minute for the prey to be killed. I do have to watch, because if it does get out of hand, the snake could be hurt or the prey could be hurt and not killed.

(I had to check with my wife the biologist... and also think back to the feedings of the my snake including the two she ate yesterday.)


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## Colin1 (Jul 1, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Good post!
> 
> _The most recent official survey, conducted more than a decade ago, determined there were 4.7 million dog bite victims annually in the USA_


_
Oh! Well that's alright then!
Alright for everybody except the families, friends and loved ones of the 2.5 people who've been killed every year since 1980. The difference between a 'pet' and a '12ft snake' is that you don't have to ensure special locks and enclosures for a 'pet' in case it gets out and kills your kids while you're sleeping._


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 1, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> Oh! Well that's alright then!
> Alright for everybody except the families, friends and loved ones of the 2.5 people who've been killed every year since 1980. The difference between a 'pet' and a '12ft snake' is that you don't have to ensure special locks and enclosures for a 'pet' in case it gets out and kills your kids while you're sleeping.



So no special precautions need to be taken with dogs or other pets? That sounds very irresponsible to me! 

Do you really think that snakes are the only pets that have harmed people? 4.7 million Americans are harmed by dogs? Should we stop having dogs as pets????

You make it sound like that is what snake do, like they are evil beings that only want to hurt people and children. My 10 footer got out before (because I did not have it in a proper enclosure), you know what it did. It curled up around the heater in my room, never threatened me once. The next day though, I had a proper enclosure.

Just because someone owns a snake, does not make them stupid. Just because a snake kills someone does not make it wrong to have them as a pet!


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## Colin1 (Jul 1, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> So no special precautions need to be taken with dogs or other pets? That sounds very irresponsible to me!


Ideally? No, none at all
I can't see why it could be construed as irresponsible, I played football with our dogs, wrestled with our dogs, playing wargames and took our dogs prisoner and invariably ended up sleeping in a big heap with our dogs, none of them ever tried to harm me.
If parents think that dogs bred for fighting make suitable pets esp around children, that's what sounds irresponsible to me.

It's a fine line, it's difficult telling people what they can and can't keep but it's obvious (to me at least) that when a 12ft python's hungry, it's not going to sit up on its back legs and wag its tail, it's going to slip out and forage for something suitable, instinctively at night when it can mostly avoid detection.


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## Dark Matter (Jul 1, 2009)

Snakes do what snakes do, either the snake was being bothered or it was hungry.
And some people dont think about it bucuase they dont realize that could happen.
And I dont blame the snake, what it did is what it would do in the wild.
I blame the owner.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 1, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> Ideally? No, none at all
> I can't see why it could be construed as irresponsible, I played football with our dogs, wrestled with our dogs, playing wargames and took our dogs prisoner and invariably ended up sleeping in a big heap with our dogs, none of them ever tried to harm me.
> If parents think that dogs bred for fighting make suitable pets esp around children, that's what sounds irresponsible to me.
> 
> It's a fine line, it's difficult telling people what they can and can't keep but it's obvious (to me at least) that when a 12ft python's hungry, it's not going to sit up on its back legs and wag its tail, it's going to slip out and forage for something suitable, instinctively at night when it can mostly avoid detection.



As for the first part, not all dog attacks are caused by "fighting dogs". Fighting dogs make up for only 50% of all dog attacks, so the other 50% come from normal average every day dogs. The point I am trying to make is this: 

1. All pets, all animals can bite. 

2. Snakes are no different. They are not evil animals that are going to attack people.

3. If you keep the snake properly it will not get out, during the day, during the night, when it is hungry and when it is not hungry. 

4. Snakes do not hunt out humans to kill them.

5. People that have snakes are not stupid.

6. People that have children and have snakes are not stupid.

If so, then call me stupid right now...



SILVERFISH1992 said:


> I blame the owner.



I agree, as I stated he was probably not keeping it properly. I would even bet the enclosure was too small, without the proper substrate and was not fed properly.


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## Colin1 (Jul 1, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> If so, then call me stupid right now...


That's the second time you've made that claim
read back through the thread and show me where I called you stupid

This is solely my opinion of what constitutes a pet, I've got no intention of calling you (or anyone else) stupid


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## Dark Matter (Jul 1, 2009)

Its perfectly okay to have a normal sized snake with a child, but a toddler and a 10+ ft long snake?!?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 1, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> That's the second time you've made that claim
> read back through the thread and show me where I called you stupid
> 
> This is solely my opinion of what constitutes a pet, I've got no intention of calling you (or anyone else) stupid



I did not say you were calling me stupid. I am saying that based off what other people have written. Not you per say...

You have your opinion. I have mine, and that is that snakes make wonderful pets, and are no more dangerous than any other pet.



SILVERFISH1992 said:


> Its perfectly okay to have a normal sized snake with a child, but a toddler and a 10+ ft long snake?!?



There is no problem with that either, as long as precautions are taken.

For instance in the house that me and my wife wish to build, I have a separate room that is the "snake room". All the terrariums are built round the walls, and the door is locked with the key to the room in a safe place. Whenever I want to spend time with my snakes I have to into that room. If my child wants to see the snakes, my child will have be supervised by me. The Green Tree Boa that I wish to aquire will not be in the room because it will be next to a reading couch in a loft (we want to have tree frogs or an iguana on the other side of the couch), but the terrarium will have a lock on it and the doors will be sliding doors because the snake can not get out of those.

You take certain precautions and they are wonderful animals to have. Like I said in the last 15 years I have never been bitten by any of my snakes. I have owned 2 Ball Pythons (I have one of them now), the first was 3 feet long and the one I have now is 4.5 feet long, a Red Tailed Colombian Boa Constrictor which was 6 feet long and a Burmese Python that was 10 feet long. The only reason I no longer have the other 3 snakes is because the military would not let me bring them to Germany.


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## Colin1 (Jul 1, 2009)

SILVERFISH1992 said:


> And I dont blame the snake, what it did is what it would do in the wild


You don't see the irony in that?
Pet? What it would do in the wild?
They belong in the wild.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 1, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> They belong in the wild.



Why? Explain please. Birds belong in the wild, lizards belong in the wild and fish belong in the wild.

Snakes harm less people than dogs or cats...

Should we banish all dogs and cats to the wild?


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## Dark Matter (Jul 1, 2009)

The snake dosnt know any better..........Its a snake, not very smart!


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## Colin1 (Jul 1, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Fighting dogs make up for only 50% of all dog attacks, so the other 50% come from *normal* average every day dogs


There's a Freudian slip in there somewhere 

So what's the breakdown for snake attacks? What constitutes a normal average every day snake?

Or are they, as I suspect, all the same instinct-driven creatures that want to sneak out at night and forage for suitable live prey?


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## Dark Matter (Jul 1, 2009)

A 2-3 ft snake sounds normal to me.


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## Colin1 (Jul 1, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Why? Explain please. Birds belong in the wild, lizards belong in the wild and fish belong in the wild.
> 
> Snakes harm less people than dogs or cats...
> 
> Should we banish all dogs and cats to the wild?


Cats and dogs can be domesticated
Fish don't sneak out at night and strangle your kids
Keeping birds is pretty damned cruel if you ask me
I think lizards belong in the wild too but anything unlikely to nip a curious child's finger or arm (most lizard bites are loaded with bacteria) passes with me

You need to bear in mind none of this is 'when I rule the world...' it's simply my opinion


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 1, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> There's a Freudian slip in there somewhere
> 
> So what's the breakdown for snake attacks? What constitutes a normal average every day snake?
> 
> Or are they, as I suspect, all the same instinct-driven creatures that want to sneak out at night and forage for suitable live prey?



I don't know the demographics, but a quick search says that a little over 6000 people were bitten by pet snakes in the United States and only an average of 2 were killed each year. That is way less than many common pets.

Do snakes live off of instinct? Yes. Can they be "domesticated"? Not really, but they can grow used to the handler. They learn the "smell" and "taste" of your skin and if you regularly handle them, they are not afraid of you. When I put my arm in the terrarium of my snake, she comes over and rests her head on my hand and sometimes even slitters up my arm so that I can take her out.

Again they are not bad animals, and because 2 or 3 people die a year, does not make them unworthy of being a pet. If so, then we need to stop allowing dogs and cats. Facts are facts, they hurt more people. Lets keep it fair to the other animals. 



Colin1 said:


> Cats and dogs can be domesticated
> Fish don't sneak out at night and strangle your kids
> Keeping birds is pretty damned cruel if you ask me
> I think lizards belong in the wild too but anything unlikely to nip a curious child's finger or arm (most lizard bites are loaded with bacteria) passes with me
> ...



Okay...

How often do you hear about a snake "sneaking" (the word "sneak" makes it sound like they are "evil" and on the hunt to eat your children "Oh let me go and find a child to eat tonight!" ) out and killing a child?

I promise you it hardly ever happens, and it happens a lot less than your "domesticated" pets...

Opinions are one thing (You are entitled to yours) but fact is fact. A person with a snake is less likely to be bitten by the snake, then they are to be bitten by a random dog on the street.



Colin1 said:


> I think lizards belong in the wild too but anything unlikely to nip a curious child's finger or arm (most lizard bites are loaded with bacteria) passes with me



That is an issue of parenting. If you teach a child the proper way to act around a lizard, they too can make wonderful pets. Harmless wonderful pets.


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## Dark Matter (Jul 1, 2009)

Some dogs are okay.
Some @sshole dogs that bark nonstop and bite a lot are the ones that shoudnt be around.


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## Doughboy (Jul 1, 2009)

"Do you really think that snakes are the only pets that have harmed people? 4.7 million Americans are harmed by dogs? Should we stop having dogs as pets????! "

I'm sure most of those people were harmed by fighting dogs (like the Pitbull).


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## Dark Matter (Jul 1, 2009)

Not all pitbulls are bad, I met a really nice one once.


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## Colin1 (Jul 1, 2009)

SILVERFISH1992 said:


> Not all pitbulls are bad, I met a really nice one once.


Yeah me too
at least, she seemed nice
She got my car, my house, my... 

Kidding guys...


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## Butters (Jul 1, 2009)

As Adler says, non-venomous snakes are no more inherently dangerous to children than many other household hazards. Children die of choking, falling down stairs and out windows, electrocution, being run over in the driveway, household toxins,drowning in tubs and pools, strangled by curtain cords, and in the jaws of the family dog. All such deaths are preventable, and the risks can be minimized by conscientious parenting. 

A large python is a danger to a small child, but so is a powerful dog. It could be argued that the dog poses more of a danger because it is not usually recognized as a threat, whereas a big python is. But how many children have been seriously injured, or killed by the 'loyal' family dog? Plenty...and it's not just Rotties, Dobermans, and pit bulls doing the damage. Any good-size dog is capable of seriously harming a child. Even the ubiquitous Golden retriever...

I've never owned a really big snake, but I've handled quite a few of them, and even baby-sat a couple while their owners were on vacation (I used to breed chameleons, so I know a lot of herp keepers). Secure caging for a big snake is easily accomplished, and the fact that they can pose a threat to children merely places them in the same category as any other potentially lethal household hazard. Singling out big snakes smacks more of an emotional response than a rational one.

JL


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## Colin1 (Jul 1, 2009)

Butters said:


> Singling out big snakes smacks more of an emotional response than a rational one


Nope
think you'll find it's a rational one
When a 12ft python starts fetching my slippers I'll concede that it sees me as something more than a midnight snack


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## Butters (Jul 1, 2009)

A gun won't fetch your slippers or love you either, but I suspect that you don't think that they should be outlawed., or only permitted in childless homes. Despite the fact that they are involved in the UNINTENTIONAL deaths of far more children than dogs or big snakes combined...

JL


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## vikingBerserker (Jul 1, 2009)

IMHO(WIR) regardless of what pet you want to keep, use some dam fricken common sense!

Unless the snake was a master picking locks or could use a blow torch, the owner was careless to some degree.


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## syscom3 (Jul 1, 2009)

Another thing that really pissed me off is that snake escaped into the wild. Now we have mega sized snakes slithering around in an environment that cant control them.

Exotic imported animals do not belong out of their cages. Period!


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## Doughboy (Jul 1, 2009)

" Now we have mega sized snakes slithering around in an environment that cant control them."


That don't sound like fun.....


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## GrauGeist (Jul 1, 2009)

I am a former snake owner. I had a Red-tailed Columbian Boa. It was the most docile animal on the planet, until it became hungry or agitated by strangers. In time, it became too large for me to keep, and I donated it to the San Diego Zoo. As long as I had it, it never attacked myself or anyone else, I kept it well fed and in a stress-free environment.

I think that having children bears additional responsability, no matter what you might have in the home...dogs, snakes, weapons, swimming pools, vehicles, etc...

Not too long ago, while a mother stepped into the other room, her child choked on Fruit Loops. So again, the responsability falls on the parents to make sure the child is in a safe environment. I don't think it would be fair nor logical to attack the makers of Fruit Loops and have them banned or restricted all because the parent was negligent which created a tragic situation.


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## syscom3 (Jul 1, 2009)

Gaugreist, you are missing the point.

You have a large snake in the same home as children, you take precautions to make sure both are secure.

This has nothing too do with cherrios.

Its about a dangerous snake who will do what it is genetically programmed to do.


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## GrauGeist (Jul 1, 2009)

I got the point and I agree!

The Fruit Loops (breakfast cereal) was just an example of how inattention by a parent created a tragic situation with something considered pretty innocent.



GrauGeist said:


> ...having children bears additional responsability, no matter what you might have in the home...dogs, snakes, weapons, swimming pools, vehicles, etc...


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## gumbyk (Jul 1, 2009)

syscom3 said:


> Another thing that really pissed me off is that snake escaped into the wild. Now we have mega sized snakes slithering around in an environment that cant control them.



from the story...


> An invasion of giant Burmese pythons in South Florida that made national headlines last year was "rapidly expanding" and expected to reach Central Florida, according to a University of Florida study.



Looks like you already have "mega sized snakes" in the wild.

If anything, this guys stupidity is shown by the fact that he didn't have proper caging forthe animal, and I suspect, may not have been feeding it enough.
Most wild animals don't kill for pleasure.

I agree with you Sys, if you have kids in the house, you should take precautions, but millions of dog owners all over the world don't, and one snake owner obviously didn't.



P.S. where did the extra 4 ft of snake come from?


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## Soren (Jul 1, 2009)

There's absolutely nothing wrong about owning a snake, or a birdspider for that matter, as long as you take the necessary precautions. I wouldn't ever let either one near a toddler though. A 5 year old child? Sure, if the animal isn't a 5 foot snake or poisonous ofcourse.

But Colin1 is right about one thing, and that is a snake cannot be domesticated, and it doesn't grow a tie or bond with its owner as a cat or dog will. And if a snake even for a moment gets the idea that it can eat you for lunch, then it wont hesitate to give it a try. It's simply the nature of reptiles.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 2, 2009)

Doughboy said:


> "Do you really think that snakes are the only pets that have harmed people? 4.7 million Americans are harmed by dogs? Should we stop having dogs as pets????! "
> 
> I'm sure most of those people were harmed by fighting dogs (like the Pitbull).



Go and read the statistics, only 50% were harmed by fighting dogs.



vikingBerserker said:


> IMHO(WIR) regardless of what pet you want to keep, use some dam fricken common sense!
> 
> Unless the snake was a master picking locks or could use a blow torch, the owner was careless to some degree.



Agreed, that is what I am saying. If you take the proper precautions, nothing is going to happen. 15 years and nothing has ever happened to me or my family when it came to snakes.



GrauGeist said:


> I am a former snake owner. I had a Red-tailed Columbian Boa. It was the most docile animal on the planet, until it became hungry or agitated by strangers. In time, it became too large for me to keep, and I donated it to the San Diego Zoo. As long as I had it, it never attacked myself or anyone else, I kept it well fed and in a stress-free environment.
> 
> I think that having children bears additional responsability, no matter what you might have in the home...dogs, snakes, weapons, swimming pools, vehicles, etc...
> 
> Not too long ago, while a mother stepped into the other room, her child choked on Fruit Loops. So again, the responsability falls on the parents to make sure the child is in a safe environment. I don't think it would be fair nor logical to attack the makers of Fruit Loops and have them banned or restricted all because the parent was negligent which created a tragic situation.



Very good post.



syscom3 said:


> Gaugreist, you are missing the point.
> 
> You have a large snake in the same home as children, you take precautions to make sure both are secure.
> 
> ...



And why did it happen? Because precautions were probably not taken! It is not the snakes fault, but rather the owner.



gumbyk said:


> from the story...
> 
> 
> Looks like you already have "mega sized snakes" in the wild.
> ...



Another rational post, from a rational person.



Soren said:


> And if a snake even for a moment gets the idea that it can eat you for lunch, then it wont hesitate to give it a try. It's simply the nature of reptiles.



Only if it is hungry. Snakes do not go around killing for the fun of it. If you keep them in a proper enclosure and feed them properly, you can handle them all day long without fear of being bitten or "eaten".


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## Colin1 (Jul 2, 2009)

Butters said:


> A gun won't fetch your slippers or love you either, but I suspect that you don't think that they should be outlawed., or only permitted in childless homes. Despite the fact that they are involved in the UNINTENTIONAL deaths of far more children than dogs or big snakes combined


You have a point (and you're right, I don't think they should be outlawed)
but guns don't proactively recognise a weakness in their cabinet design, break out and go looking for kids to shoot. That's the difference here, keep a gun out of harm's way, it'll stay out of the way, a snake likely won't be so inclined.


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## Colin1 (Jul 2, 2009)

gumbyk said:


> Most wild animals _don't kill for pleasure_


You said it, wild animals
No, they kill to eat but I think that's little comfort to anyone who's just had a child killed by a wild animal that was offered the convenience of living in the same house as its prey. 

I think it's significant that if someone forgets to feed them, they consider humans as a viable alternative. If I forget to feed Tiddles the cat I don't have to worry about being woken in the middle of the night with his jaws clamped around my neck.


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## lesofprimus (Jul 2, 2009)

I read the entire thread and I can see that there is some level headed thinking here... I personally would not own a snake large enough to get a hold of my infant clild and cause any sort of serious harm like the above story.... Suitable enclosure, locked up etc etc is a great way to keep ur family safe, but accidents happen in every way shape and form, as many members have already pointed out... 

As quoted from the original news report:
Darnell did not have a permit to keep the snake as a pet. According to snake expert Scott Hardin of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, Burmese python owners must have a license to keep the snake as a pet. The license costs $100 a year and mandates specific caging requirements.

Hardin said the Burmese python is a popular pet because it is considered to be more docile than other snakes. He said the risk of a human attack is low, and attacks typically involve the snake's owner or immediate family.

said Harrison, who added that stabbing a python would not force the animal to release its prey. Harrison suggested throwing alcohol down the snake's throat or running hot water over it to get it to release its prey.

I thoughoughly believe the guy who owned this snake, and his live-in girlfriend, should be held criminally responsible for the death and charged... Being ignorant is not an excuse for ANYTHING, let alone letting ur carniverous reptile escape its enclosure and kill ur kid....

Also, one of the links brings this story alot closer to home for me:
Man Arrested For Walking On Highway With 14-Foot Snake 
POSTED: Wednesday, January 16, 2008
MASTIC, N.Y. -- A man was was arrested for walking on a highway with a 14-foot python wrapped around his body, police said. 

Police in Long Island's Suffolk County said 35-year-old Curtis Dewberry of Wading River was spotted by an officer for the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals while out strolling Tuesday. The officer called police because the python is considered a danger to the public.

Dewberry was charged with animal cruelty and failure to protect the public against dangerous wildlife.

He was being held Wednesday and didn't have a lawyer.


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## Doughboy (Jul 2, 2009)

"I thoughoughly believe the guy who owned this snake, and his live-in girlfriend, should be held criminally responsible for the death and charged... Being ignorant is not an excuse for ANYTHING, let alone letting ur carniverous reptile escape its enclosure and kill ur kid...."





I agree 100%.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 2, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> You have a point (and you're right, I don't think they should be outlawed)
> but guns don't proactively recognise a weakness in their cabinet design, break out and go looking for kids to shoot. That's the difference here, keep a gun out of harm's way, it'll stay out of the way, a snake likely won't be so inclined.



Why do you keep saying "go looking for kids"? Snakes do not do this either!



Colin1 said:


> You said it, wild animals
> No, they kill to eat but I think that's little comfort to anyone who's just had a child killed by a wild animal that was offered the convenience of living in the same house as its prey.
> 
> I think it's significant that if someone forgets to feed them, they consider humans as a viable alternative. If I forget to feed Tiddles the cat I don't have to worry about being woken in the middle of the night with his jaws clamped around my neck.



That is still not a reason to not have snakes as pets. In fact I have not seen a viable reason not. If one is responsible, they are not a problem at all.


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## diddyriddick (Jul 2, 2009)

As to the label, slow down, Kemosabe! I never meant to imply that you, or anybody else was stoopid for having snakes as pets. My point was that it must be assumed that anything that can be dangerous will be dangerous. When my daughter was born, I took steps to secure my firearms because I was being a smart parent. This particular person did NOT take steps,a nd therefore was a STOOPID parent. I was not attacking snake owners in general, but this particular snake owner. Sorry for any confusion.


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## lesofprimus (Jul 2, 2009)

Chris did admit that he was incorrect in his statememnt riddick on the previous page.... His wife is a Biologist and corrected him I believe....


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## diddyriddick (Jul 2, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> Chris did admit that he was incorrect in his statememnt riddick on the previous page.... His wife is a Biologist and corrected him I believe....



Sorry. Missed that one somehow. But that was secondary. Really was attacking the stupid parent, not the stupid pet owner.


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## lesofprimus (Jul 2, 2009)

I just came back from my boys' golfing lesson.... One of the waitresses up there was talking about how the python ate the baby.... I had to correct her as to what really happened.....

Im not exactly sure, but I dont think an 8 foot Python could swallow a baby... Now a 14 footer, yea, serious trouble....


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## diddyriddick (Jul 2, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> I just came back from my boys' golfing lesson.... One of the waitresses up there was talking about how the python ate the baby.... I had to correct her as to what really happened.....
> 
> Im not exactly sure, but I dont think an 8 foot Python could swallow a baby... Now a 14 footer, yea, serious trouble....



It might surprise you just how wide a snake can get it's jaws. They literally unhinge at the joint of upper and lower jaws.


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## Butters (Jul 2, 2009)

The snake's owner was a dangerous moron. Just read this...

Autopsy: Girl Asphyxiated By Python - Orlando News Story - WKMG Orlando

BTW, an 8.5' snake just might be able to swallow a premature newborn, but a two-year old is a bit of a stretch...


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Jul 2, 2009)

Read the link butters. That guy was an idiot for using rope and a quilt to secure the cage. I'm not a fan of snakes, but I don't see why someone can't have one as a pet as long as they use their brain.


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## lesofprimus (Jul 2, 2009)

Ummm riddick, I was a US Navy SEAL for almost 10 years man, I think I know what the capabilities of constrictors are....

I watched one eat a deer in a Starlight Scope once....


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## Butters (Jul 2, 2009)

I think you've misconstrued the intent of my post. If you look back thru the thread you'll see that I have defended the responsible ownership of big snakes. It was the 'rope and quilt' thing that led me to call the guy a dangerous moron.

JL


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## Marcel (Jul 2, 2009)

We have snakes. But not big ones as I believe it's not smart to have these with little kids like mine. Accidents always tends to happen and why live on the edge? Ours are nice little garter snakes. Actually quite silly creatures. A goldfish has a better memory then these snakes 
BTW they also tend to turn on their owner. If you've worked in the garden, they think you smell like worm, so they'll try and eat you. Usually not the best idea they could have as they hardly penetrate the skin 
BTW Chris, very good looking snake!


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## Doughboy (Jul 2, 2009)

Marcel said:


> We have snakes. But not big ones as I believe it's not smart to have these with little kids like mine. Accidents always tends to happen and why live on the edge? Ours are nice little garter snakes. Actually quite silly creatures. A goldfish has a better memory then these snakes
> BTW they also tend to turn on their owner. If you've worked in the garden, they think you smell like worm, so they'll try and eat you. Usually not the best idea they could have as they hardly penetrate the skin
> BTW Chris, very good looking snake!


I have no problem with owning a Garter snake.


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## Njaco (Jul 2, 2009)

Why did I wait so long to check this thread? Should have backed up Chris sooner! 



> 5. Take precautions as they said, and you will be fine.



This is the KEY point! He said the snake had gotten loose as early as Wednesday! This idiot should never have owned a snake. No permit and obvious improper care of an exotic, dangerous animal. Its not so much the point that nobody should own them as much as do you KNOW how to own them. I would say after 30 years of meeting and dealing with people who own these types of snakes and any other type of potentially dangerous animal that 8 out 10 don't know what the hell they are doing. Kinda like owning a Ferrari auto. Just because it can go 250 mph doesn't mean you drive it at 250mph. You must take extra care with all that power.

And the first fundamental that must be understood is that it is a wild animal. Period. It will not become domesticated. It may seem that way only because it has adapted to your enviornment but it can still be dangerous. This snake was only doing what God intended it to do, God just forgot to give the dope who claimed him a few more brain cells to use.



> Colin...I can't see why it could be construed as irresponsible, I played football with our dogs, wrestled with our dogs, playing wargames and took our dogs prisoner and invariably ended up sleeping in a big heap with our dogs, *none of them ever tried to harm me*.



I usually hear that as the dog takes a chunk of my leg!  In most cases it won't bite you if it considers you the Alpha member of its "pack". But again, there are idiots that own dogs. EDIT: Don't mean this as a putdown for you, Collin. I was referncing the majority of owners who get in trouble. Sorry.

The pit bull. Great dog. Calm demeanor and very loyal. Strongest jaws in the canine world. But because it has become a status symbol within a certain culture and through that, abused and misrepresented, the reputation grows. And these irresponsible, back yard breeders continue the myth and trouble, breeding geneictally inferior animals who then cause problems later. Add in the stupid owners who think its "cool" to have a 'pittbuhll' only as an accessory and you have major problems throughout the country. Walk into any animal shelter, especially near a major city and I guarantee that 25 to 75% of the animals are pits. Not UKC bloodlines but a mix-mash of ill-tempered and wasted canines who someone once thought was "cool".

some stats on bites:

1994 - #1 biting dog in California: the Cocker Spaniel
The Dalmation once held that spot, also.
Dogs that cause the most deaths - #1 the Rottweiller followed by pits and then German Shepherds.

I cover 327 square miles with around 270,000 population. In a week's time, every week, I handle 2 - 3 dog bites. That means investigating injuries and sometimes deaths (not human so far but several other animals) caused by dogs. Thats just me in a department of 10 officers who also handle a like work load. Almost each and every time its someone who is careless and lazy owning a dangerous dog. And everyone suffers. Its a big problem. 

Around 25% of hospital emergency room visits are for animal bites. About 75% of a police officers calls that are not directly Police related involve animals. And there have been too many times to count that I have had an animal suffer, either through injury or court-ordered euthansia, because of irresponsible owners.

I've said enough. It doesn't matter what pet someone has. You have to look at the other end of the leash to get an idea.


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## vikingBerserker (Jul 2, 2009)

A rope and a quilt????????????

Holy (cough) some people should not be allowed to own pets or have kids.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 3, 2009)

Njaco said:


> Why did I wait so long to check this thread? Should have backed up Chris sooner!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the post. A very rational one as well. When one just takes a step back and looks at the whole picture, one sees that having snakes is not a terribly difficult or dangerous thing to do. You just have to use some brains and some common sense.


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## lesofprimus (Jul 3, 2009)

Great post Chris....


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## Soren (Jul 3, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> Ummm riddick, I was a US Navy SEAL for almost 10 years man, I think I know what the capabilities of constrictors are....
> 
> I watched one eat a deer in a Starlight Scope once....



lol was about to mention that most special forces members know what s snake is capable of


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## Colin1 (Jul 3, 2009)

Njaco said:


> I usually hear that as the dog takes a chunk of my leg!  In most cases it won't bite you if it considers you the Alpha member of its "pack". But again, there are idiots that own dogs. EDIT: Don't mean this as a putdown for you, Colin. I was referncing the majority of owners who get in trouble


Absolutely not taken that way Chris
you're more qualified than anyone on here to express such an opinion
I've no idea how dogs think, but I can't see them regarding me as alpha dog when I was 6'ish years old, more like a puppy of the alpha clan I guess and something they felt pack-bound to keep an eye on, so they generally put up with my crap (including being taken prisoner).

I don't know about snakes, I'm generally suspicious of exotic pets, most of them are just wild animals that got fashionable.


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## syscom3 (Jul 3, 2009)

Number of people killed by small dogs; none.

Number of people killed or terribly mauled by large aggressively bred dogs (like rottweilers and pit bulls); plenty.

Is a Boa a deadly animal? Yes. Its a reptile that does what reptiles are supposed to do.

Should everyone have a Boa? No.

Should Boa's be considered an invasive species (in North America) and be strictly controlled and the owners licensed? Yes.


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## lingo (Jul 3, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> You just have to use some brains and some common sense.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately common sense is nowhere near as common as it used to be.


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## Doughboy (Jul 3, 2009)

"Should Boa's be considered an invasive species (in North America) and be strictly controlled and the owners licensed? Yes. "

I agree with your post....but I don't even think you should be allowed to have a dangerous snake.


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## Gnomey (Jul 3, 2009)

If properly kept there is no harm in having a dangerous snake, the same with any dangerous animal. There should be no need for any rules to prohibit there keeping as pets. The problems lie in the inability to sufficiently care for the animal and are the same for any dangerous animal be it a snake, a dog or a lion. 

There should I believe be some regulation on the importing of them as well as checks to insure they can be kept humanely, these in theory would prevent the majority of the deaths and other injuries. At the end of the day why do we make a bigger deal about a small child being killed by a snake than a small child killed by dog. Both a tragic and both can be dangerous animals...

I fully agree with what both Chris's (Adler/Njaco) are saying as well.


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## Colin1 (Jul 3, 2009)

Gnomey said:


> ...At the end of the day why do we make a bigger deal about a small child being killed by a snake than a small child killed by dog. Both a tragic and both can be dangerous animals...


Because dogs are made dangerous by environment, 12ft snakes are dangerous by nature
And anyone keeping a lion needs to be slapped silly


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## Clave (Jul 3, 2009)

I don't trust any animal.


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## Marcel (Jul 3, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> Because dogs are made dangerous by environment, 12ft snakes are dangerous by nature
> And anyone keeping a lion needs to be slapped silly



Dogs are natural predators (being direct decendants from the wolves) and therefore potentially dangerous. The are made "domesticated" by (mis)-using the social behaviour of the wolfpack. Many people who don't understand how that works usually cannot handle their dog very well which sometimes leads to accidents and quit often to near-accidents.

I agree about the Lion, though.


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## Colin1 (Jul 3, 2009)

Marcel said:


> Dogs are natural predators (being direct decendants from the wolves) and therefore potentially dangerous. The are made "domesticated" by (mis)-using the social behaviour of the wolfpack. Many people who don't understand how that works usually cannot handle their dog very well which sometimes leads to accidents and quit often to near-accidents


Marcel
Man started his relationship with dogs by exploiting their social behaviour for hunting gains. In such a close working relationship, it is only natural that they should see in dogs' undying loyalty something closer to affection and thus reinforce the bond between them. As we got more modern (and tended to use supermarkets) it would be a little cold of us to eject our loyal, four-legged friends back into the wild - we've been around each other too long. I think the term 'mis-use' is a little harsh here.

The point I am going to close on is that with (in)appropriate conditioning a dog will indeed become a danger, in an inappropriate environment it will learn all the bad stuff, instead of the redeeming features we normally associate with pet dogs. A properly disciplined and cared-for dog is far less likely to turn out this way. So good environment, good dog; bad environment, dangerous dog - is that a fair statement?

A 12ft snake doesn't really respond to that, the fact that, even in a 'good' environment, it requires special enclosures and approved locks tells me that it doesn't really belong in your house. Would you buy a dog if it was constrained by the same safety measures?

I'll soften my stance, I can see Adler's point but you'll never see a 12ft snake in my house. Or a lion.


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## sabrina (Jul 3, 2009)

Clave said:


> I don't trust any animal.



Including humans. They're still the most dangerous animals out there.


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## Njaco (Jul 3, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> Marcel
> Man started his relationship with dogs by exploiting their social behaviour for hunting gains. In such a close working relationship, it is only natural that they should see in dogs' undying loyalty something closer to affection and thus reinforce the bond between them. As we got more modern (and tended to use supermarkets) it would be a little cold of us to eject our loyal, four-legged friends back into the wild - we've been around each other too long. I think the term 'mis-use' is a little harsh here.




I agree with what you are saying. One other point.

The dogs we have today are nowhere near like the animals first befriended by man. Selective Genetic breeding has so watered down the basic canine that what we have now are trophy animals, designed for each and every whim that we want. Don't want a dog to shed on your new carpet? Get an engineered Chinese Crested. Want a dog that hunts ducks in water? Get a Chesapeake Bay retriever. Want to capture bear? Get an Akita.

Man has fooled with the genetic code of dogs for so long that what we have are thinned breed lines and sometimes mentally challenged animals. Back yard breeders add to the mix and we now have cross-breeds and mixes that in some cases should never have been combined. And most of these dogs wouldn't know what to do in the wild. So we have truly 'domesticated' an animal, much like cats - although they can fend more readliy in he wild. They depend upon us. There are no 'purebreds'.

oh, and AKC (American Kennel Club) is a joke. Papered dogs are useless. Just about every animal shelter that has a purebred surrenderd to them with papers, throws out those papers. AKC registered a cat a few years ago. I can think of better things to do with paper.

Now I need to compose my rant about stupid exotic pet owners, just as soon as I get this alligater out of the sewer


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## Soren (Jul 3, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> The point I am going to close on is that with (in)appropriate conditioning a dog will indeed become a danger, in an inappropriate environment it will learn all the bad stuff, instead of the redeeming features we normally associate with pet dogs. A properly disciplined and cared-for dog is far less likely to turn out this way. So good environment, good dog; bad environment, dangerous dog - is that a fair statement?



The same can actually sometimes be said about humans as-wel, although it doesn't apply to nearly the same degree.


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## vikingBerserker (Jul 3, 2009)

IMHO no. Some dogs are "mean" due to their environment while some dogs that are from great environments and they are just "mean" period. - just like people. There is no one or the other.

Even for as long as we have bred dogs and removed them from their "wolven" roots, you will still see wolf characteristics today.


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## Marcel (Jul 4, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> Marcel
> Man started his relationship with dogs by exploiting their social behaviour for hunting gains. In such a close working relationship, it is only natural that they should see in dogs' undying loyalty something closer to affection and thus reinforce the bond between them. As we got more modern (and tended to use supermarkets) it would be a little cold of us to eject our loyal, four-legged friends back into the wild - we've been around each other too long. I think the term 'mis-use' is a little harsh here.
> 
> The point I am going to close on is that with (in)appropriate conditioning a dog will indeed become a danger, in an inappropriate environment it will learn all the bad stuff, instead of the redeeming features we normally associate with pet dogs. A properly disciplined and cared-for dog is far less likely to turn out this way. So good environment, good dog; bad environment, dangerous dog - is that a fair statement?
> ...


I dind't mean (mis)-using as mis-using but eh well, communication can be difficult sometimes 
According to my wife (she's an animal-behaviour biologist) the wolf is still there in the dog despite the extensive breeding. As an owner you'll have to understand this one way or the other in order to handle the dog. So with dogs it's the same as with snakes: As long as you pay attention (in this case handle the dog well), it's no problem to have it as a pet.


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## Njaco (Jul 4, 2009)

Viking and Marcel: that was a point I forgot to make. There is still some wild, i.e., the 'pack' mentality - within dogs to this day. They still maintain some instincts from ages long ago.


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## lesofprimus (Jul 4, 2009)

Anyone ever see a pack of wild dogs running deer in the woods??? 

I have, and have killed several of them in the process.... Pack behavior is still found in the common dog....


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 24, 2009)

Well, the Dynamic Dumbass Duo have been charged:


Mom, Man Charged In Tot's Python Death - Orlando News Story - WKMG Orlando


Mom, Man Charged In Tot's Python Death
2-Year-Old Strangled By 8.5-Foot Burmese Python

POSTED: Monday, August 24, 2009
UPDATED: 6:40 pm EDT August 24, 2009



Charles Jason Darnell and Jaren Ashley Hare. 
OXFORD, Fla. -- The mother of a 2-year-old girl who was strangled by a python, along with the mother's boyfriend who owned the snake, were arrested Monday in connection with the girl's death, according to Sumter County sheriff's officials. 

Jaren Ashley Hare, 19, and Charles Jason Darnell, 32, were arrested on charges of manslaughter, third-degree murder and child abuse in the death of Shaunnia Hare, who was killed in July at her Oxford home.

Hare turned herself in to police Monday afternoon, and Darnell was already in jail on unrelated drug charges. Both are being held on $35,000 bond.

Last month, Darnell woke up at a residence in the 1500 block of county Road 466 in Oxford, which is located about 60 miles northwest of Orlando, to find Shaunnia being strangled by his 8.5-foot pet albino Burmese python, according to Sumter County sheriff's officials.

Investigators said there were several bite marks on the toddler. A medical examiner determined that she died from asphyxiation.

"Our stupid snake got out in the middle of the night and strangled the baby," Darnell said in a 911 call.

Emergency workers could not revive the girl.

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission removed the snake from the home. A 6-foot boa constrictor was also inside the house, but it did not escape its terrarium.

Darnell did not have a permit to keep the snake as a pet, deputies said. According to snake expert Scott Hardin of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, Burmese python owners must have a license to keep the snake as a pet. The license costs $100 a year and mandates specific caging requirements.

"Law enforcement with the assistance of the FWC is going to investigate this case further to see if there is any kind of game violations or any other misconduct," Bobby Caruthers of the Sumter County Sheriff's Office said.

Hardin said the Burmese python is a popular pet because it is considered to be more docile than other snakes. He said the risk of a human attack is low, and attacks typically involve the snake's owner or immediate family.

The Humane Society of the United States said including Wednesday's death, at least 12 people have been killed in the United States by pet pythons since 1980, including five children.

Matt Harrison, a Critter Control employee who has worked with pythons for more than eight years, said the animals are extremely strong.

"A 12-foot snake is kind of like having a truck sitting on your chest. They have enough power not only to asphyxiate you, but to break bones as well," said Harrison, who added that stabbing a python would not force the animal to release its prey.

Harrison suggested throwing alcohol down the snake's throat or running hot water over it to get it to release its prey.

Harrison urged owners to be careful with pet pythons.

"Most (of) the time, as long as you're careful, you don't have anything to worry about, but occasionally, they can turn on their owners," Harrison said.

Harrison said attacks tend to be a feeding response, but he said it is important to keep cages secure and safe, especially when there are children in the house.

Harrison speculated that there are probably more pythons in Florida than anywhere else in the United States.

According to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, pythons are a nonnative species to Florida, although some Burmese pythons have been found in parts of Florida.

An invasion of giant Burmese pythons in South Florida that made national headlines last year was "rapidly expanding" and expected to reach Central Florida, according to a University of Florida study.

"There's no part of this state that you can point at and say that pythons couldn't live here," researcher Frank Mazzotti said. "They're capable of incredible movement -- and in a relatively short period."

Most of the pythons were brought over as pets and then turned loose in the wild, he said.

Anyone who comes across a python is urged to call wildlife officials at 888-404-FWCC. For more information about pythons, visit the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.


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## B-17engineer (Aug 24, 2009)

Okay, have been reading this thread and I have had a snake for many years, donated because it was getting a bit much for my family (size and not having enough time to let him out) , but I had a little brother in the house who was 2 at the time and an older brother who was 7. Now my dad wasn't opposed to it because HE knew if he was cautious with it there wouldn't be a problem. The snake didn't bite my little brother, myself or any of my family. I have just recently gotten a dog and I've been bitten plenty of times. 

Snakes are like humans because, when they get REALLY stressed out, they can snap sometimes. If you can avoid this and be cautious with the snake, well you are a qualified owner.


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## diddyriddick (Aug 25, 2009)

The owner, Darnell, said in his 911 call that his stupid snake got out. Why didn't he mention the stupid owner? Truly tragic.


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## syscom3 (Aug 25, 2009)

B-17engineer said:


> Snakes are like humans because, ....



Snakes are reptiles, deviod of emotion. Their brains are not wired like mammals.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 26, 2009)

syscom3 said:


> Snakes are reptiles, deviod of emotion. Their brains are not wired like mammals.



Agreed that snakes are not like humans, that is rather obvious...

My wife however, who is a biologist just read your post and laughed her ass off!  She wants to know how you know that a snake is different from any other wild animal (including mammals).


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## jamierd (Aug 26, 2009)

snakes like all animals take a little care and attention i have been keeping snakes for about 56 years before this i have kept spiders lizards and scorpiond and i nor my children have ever been bitten by any of them .it is right that these iresponsible people be charged with murder animals do what is natural to them the snake is not at fault here the owners definately are .
this is spartan my 5 and a half foot grey rat snake

here she is


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## Messy1 (Aug 26, 2009)

What is truly sad is two morons who has no business even having a snake, also had no business having kids. You need a license for a dog, snake, gun, bike, but any 2 morons out there can have the biggest responsibility of all, raising kids!
This is waht can happen when stupid, ignorant people have kids. I mean just for the love, and safety of your kids, it sounds like to me all this could have been avoided if the owner had just cared enough about his kid(s) to make sure the snake was caged properly, and fed accordingly.


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## Colin1 (Aug 26, 2009)

jamierd said:


> here she is


How'd it get inside that cake?
My God, a Cake Snake - deadly but usually too fat to chase you


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## diddyriddick (Aug 27, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> How'd it get inside that cake?
> My God, a Cake Snake - deadly but usually too fat to chase you



As an aside, truth can be stranger than fiction. Check out the Gaboon Viper. Uniquely among venomous snakes, they don't strike and hold their prey til the venom takes effect. They strike, release, and then lesiurely follow the scent of pheromones to dinner.

Bitis gabonica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 27, 2009)

jamierd said:


> snakes like all animals take a little care and attention i have been keeping snakes for about 56 years before this i have kept spiders lizards and scorpiond and i nor my children have ever been bitten by any of them .it is right that these iresponsible people be charged with murder animals do what is natural to them the snake is not at fault here the owners definately are .
> this is spartan my 5 and a half foot grey rat snake
> 
> here she is



Exactly. I have owned many snakes, and will own many more, even after me and my wife have children.


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## syscom3 (Aug 27, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Agreed that snakes are not like humans, that is rather obvious...
> 
> My wife however, who is a biologist just read your post and laughed her ass off!  She wants to know how you know that a snake is different from any other wild animal (including mammals).



If your wife is a biologist, then obviously she knows their brains are different.

Thats why mammals can be domesticated and reptiles cant.


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## diddyriddick (Aug 27, 2009)

syscom3 said:


> If your wife is a biologist, then obviously she knows their brains are different.
> 
> Thats why mammals can be domesticated and reptiles cant.



I would think that 10,000 years of artificial selection had something to do with that.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 27, 2009)

syscom3 said:


> If your wife is a biologist, then obviously she knows their brains are different.
> 
> Thats why mammals can be domesticated and reptiles cant.



She laughed again...

A wild animal is a wild animal is a wild animal. Watch some more discovery channel.


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## syscom3 (Aug 27, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> She laughed again...
> 
> A wild animal is a wild animal is a wild animal. Watch some more discovery channel.



Maybe you should do the same. No, maybe its time for you to enroll in biology 101.

Do you not understand reptiles have different brains than mammals? That makes them fundementaly different?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 27, 2009)

syscom3 said:


> Maybe you should do the same. No, maybe its time for you to enroll in biology 101.



  



syscom said:


> Do you not understand reptiles have different brains than mammals? That makes them fundementaly different?



No, I understand that quite well. I am not a fool or an idiot. In fact I already told you that you are correct that they are different. But to say that reptiles are devoid of any and all emotions is not 100% correct. How the brain works and what emotions and feelings it feels are different than most animals, but to say that they are completely different from mammals is not 100% correct.

You can not domesticate a reptile just like you can not domesticate a tiger for instance. Instincts will always be present.

Basically what I am saying (and the reason why my wife was laughing, and she still is...) is because of your choice of words.


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