# Albatros D.V crash



## Bichar (Mar 27, 2021)

Hello. I have this photo long ,long time in my family. Maybe Id . were ,who and how get crashed. Thanks

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## Wurger (Apr 1, 2021)

IMHO that's not the Albatros D.V but D.III.

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## Thumpalumpacus (Apr 1, 2021)

Wurger said:


> IMHO that's not the Albatros D.V but D.III.



Forgive what may be an ignorant question, but what are the tells you see?


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## Wurger (Apr 1, 2021)

The flat side of the fuselage. The D.V had the fuselage of the oval shape in its cross section.

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## Thumpalumpacus (Apr 1, 2021)

Wurger said:


> The flat side of the fuselage. The D.V had the fuselage of the oval shape in its cross section.




Thank you, don't know how I missed that but I did.


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 1, 2021)

Thumpalumpacus said:


> Thank you, don't know how I missed that but I did.


Target fictiation. Once you think you have id it , one will start looking for things that will say you saw it wright. Been there. Mind you, mostly , one is on the dot but sometimes..

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## Thumpalumpacus (Apr 1, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> Target fictiation. Once you think you have id it , one will start looking for things that will say you saw it wright. Been there. Mind you, mostly , one is on the dot but sometimes..



I think I was too busy looking at the broken wings, tbh. Looks like an ugly crash.

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## RagTag (Apr 24, 2021)

Here’s a few cents on this. I don’t know every variant, but most DIII’s do have flat sides but the chines seem to be more smooth or rounded than this one. Also DIII’s typically have the back end of the rudder squared off, this looks rounded like a DV. And it sure looks like to me it has an observer seat opening where the top of the fuselage is torn. If so no gun ring seems to be attached. So my guess is this is a training accident of some sort. Maybe someone with more Albatross knowledge can add more.


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## Wurger (Apr 24, 2021)

That's true it looks like. But the D.III had the top of fuselage and the bottom as well quite smooth rounded. The sheets of the plywood skiin were designed by an artist as memo serves. Regarding the rudder shape ... the late D.IIIs , especially these from 1917, got the late one that was more rounded. The D.V just "inherited" that. Have a look at the images below. Also I don't agree there was the observer seat opening. The opening there is a place where the MGs were attached usually. Perhaps these were removed and the plane could have been used for training as a result the training accident is possible.










the pic source: Albatros D.III | Wikiwand

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## RagTag (Apr 24, 2021)

Wurger said:


> That's true it looks like. But the D.III had the top of fuselage and the bottom as well quite smooth rounded. The sheets of the plywood skiin were designed by an artist as memo serves. Regarding the rudder shape ... the late D.IIIs , especially these from 1917, got the late one that was more rounded. The D.V just "inherited" that. Have a look at the images below. Also I don't agree there was the observer seat opening. The opening here is a place where the MGs were attached usually. Perhaps these were removed and the plane could have been used for training as a result the training accident is possible.
> 
> View attachment 620712
> 
> ...


Great info. After looking closer I’d agree that’s probably not a two seater.


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## RagTag (Apr 24, 2021)

What’s the chance of what appears to be the bottom shadow on the fuselage is actually a paint line? The tip of the star laps over it, it seems. It also runs under the tail. If so that gives an illusion of a more squared off bottom fuselage than it actually is.


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## Wurger (Apr 24, 2021)

Humm.. I'm not convinced that the dark bottom is the result of painting and the demarcation line there. I would say that's a light effect The star lapping is the similar effect you may notice in the second pic posted by me above. The foreground Albatros and the one behind her have the two-tone schewrons. Their back light parts/strips also lap the bottom of the fusealage but the line of the dark looking undersides also can't be noticed on them. Of course the effect can be the result of fresh applying of the markings while the bottom of the fusealge had been slightly dirty before it .


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## Graeme (Apr 26, 2021)

RagTag said:


> Also DIII’s typically have the back end of the rudder squared off, this looks rounded like a DV.



Have a look at these interesting line drawings from Aircraft Archive Volume 2. The port view shows that squared off look you speak off, but the starboard matches the photo above.
*Both* machines are the D III.








RagTag said:


> And it sure looks like to me it has an observer seat opening where the top of the fuselage is torn.



Not a good photo (D III), but there is some sort of cover - just in front of the cockpit. Possibly this has been removed/dislodged in the crash and gives the appearance of another cockpit.














RagTag said:


> Maybe someone with more Albatross knowledge can add more.



I certainly don't have that knowledge - but it's fun trying. 
Based on all of the above - I'm with Wurger - *D III*.

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## Wurger (Apr 26, 2021)

A nice pic of the Albatros with the cover in front of the cockpit. It is possible that might be a scout plane with removed armament. Anyway it is sure the MGs were removed from its compartment.


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## RagTag (Apr 27, 2021)

Graeme said:


> Have a look at these interesting line drawings from Aircraft Archive Volume 2. The port view shows that squared off look you speak off, but the starboard matches the photo above.
> *Both* machines are the D III.
> 
> View attachment 620957
> ...




I am educated now! I did key on that forward notch you pointed out to think it might have been a two-seater. Good catch. So this was likely a DIII(OAW) that had the rounded rudders produced from June 1917 on. 
And with the iron cross being generally replaced by the straight sided cross by April 1918, that brackets a time frame for the picture. The trees in the background look deciduous and mostly dark like they are leafed out green, and by the kids clothes that would likely exclude the winter months. So most probable the summer of 1917, to make a guess.

The whole tail was painted a distinguishing color. Maybe that could be used to locate this if it a _staffel _marking rather than a personal one.

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