# The C 17 incident in Alaska, sad



## Torch (Dec 14, 2010)

http://www.pacaf.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-101210-080.wmv http://www.pacaf.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-101211-002.pdf


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## evangilder (Dec 14, 2010)

Wow, that video is something else. The takeoff was one of the most aggressive I have seen in a C-17. I watched in horror on that last turn as I saw the stall coming on. Terrible.


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2010)

Holyshit, here we go again. I thought they put a stop to that after the B-52 crash in Spokane. Apparently Air Mobility Command didn't get the memo. Jeez what a tragedy.


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## T Bolt (Dec 14, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> Holyshit, here we go again. I thought they put a stop to that after the B-52 crash in Spokane. Apparently Air Mobility Command didn't get the memo. Jeez what a tragedy.



Looks just like that B-52 crash. Stall in a tight banking turn, and practicing for an airshow too. You would think they would have learned from the last one.


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## mikewint (Dec 14, 2010)

First and foremost it is a terrible tragedy, but, non-pilot here, so forgive stupid questions. The take off looked pretty aggressive but he leveled off ok, made a left turn ok, speed seemed slow even to me. So why did he make that steeply banked right turn so soon with such a low air speed?


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2010)

ego


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 14, 2010)

Absolutely terrible. I was only a few miles from that crash. I was sitting on the UAA grounds for most of the day watching the Snowbirds, Blue Angels and the F-22s practice for the same airshow.

This is a prime example of why Safety should never be compromised. There is nothing at an Airshow that is more important than the lives of the crew. I will be honest, whenever I was crewing in the Army, if I felt uncomfortable about something or felt that something unsafe was being done, I opened my fricken mouth.


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## beaupower32 (Dec 14, 2010)

The C-17 has built a reputation on being a manuverable airplane, especially for its size. Even low speed it does handle very well, but like all aircraft, it does have its limits to what it can and cant to. It is not a fighter, nor will it ever be. When lite of fuel (20,000 LBS) and cargo, its roatation speed is around 98 knots ( I know cause I was up front in one with this configuration, and saw 98kts when the wheels came off the ground). 

On a side note, I have not watched this, and I refuse to. I know people who were friends with the crew. I find it tacky that the Air Force even released the video. Nothing against you Torch, but I dont think the video should have been released and spread around.


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## evangilder (Dec 14, 2010)

Fortunately, BP, the video stops before the actual crash. But it is still a horrible thing to watch.


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## beaupower32 (Dec 14, 2010)

Yeah, I heard where it stops, and I agree that it is a horrible thing.


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## mikewint (Dec 14, 2010)

Matt, that makes it even more terrible


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2010)

mikewint said:


> Matt, that makes it even more terrible



What? The video? I disagree. I sympathize with those who lost loved ones on this tragic flight. But I personally am of the belief that videos of such accidents should be released, not to trivialize them nor to disparage those involved, but rather to highlight the implications involved in the causal factors.

I'm not involved in this Class A. But I can guaran-effing-tee that one finding will be the unnecessary maneuvers at the flight envelope extreme for a non-wartime operation. This will be concluded irrespective of mechanical/electronic failure or malfunction.

I usually don't like to weigh heavily into these accidents, but there is too much to critique in the video. I've personally witnessed this same airshow at McChord AFB. And if you have ever looked into the B-52 accident, there is bountiful video evidence that a lack of management of training operations was ultimately going to lead to an accident/incident. Just youtube it. It's scary to watch.

A true shame really.


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## Torch (Dec 14, 2010)

I agree Matt, I didn't post this to entertain, there was no disrespect intended at all to those involved. I'm sure this is harder for some because it hits closer to home. RIP to all aboard.


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2010)

I know you didn't Torch. All's good.


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## mikewint (Dec 14, 2010)

Matt, I guess my post came too late after yours to me. I meant that no matter how well trained a crew or plane: poopy happens. but that this should happen just because of someone's ego is even more terrible to me. Pride goeth before the fall


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2010)

Yeah I got it. It still saddens me that our leading edge warriors suffer these consequences, knowing that there are so many other goblins in the world who would willingly do them in as our enemies. Breaks my heart.


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## mikewint (Dec 15, 2010)

Yes it is, all that training, all that potential lost forever, families that are forever changed


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## pbfoot (Dec 15, 2010)

The vid would have been published irregardless and used in every Flight Safety briefing by every AirForce particulaly C17 operators from now until eternity


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## RabidAlien (Dec 15, 2010)

Just watched the video...I felt sick to my stomach. Matt and Mike summed it up: what a senseless, heart-breaking loss.


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## davparlr (Dec 15, 2010)

Terrible and stupid. It looked to me that he held a right roll input in until the video stopped. I did not see the ailerons move in a direction, i.e, left roll input, that would indicate any attempt to level the wings to get max vertical lift. Also, surely the C-17 is a fly by wire system, as such, stalls should not have been allowed. I do not believe the flight controls will allow a B-2, or F-16, to stall.


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## davparlr (Dec 15, 2010)

He also raised the flaps at apparently low speed. I wonder if he meant to do that. Maybe he forgot the flaps were up and tried too much maneuvering.


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