# What is this Picture?



## B-17engineer (Feb 19, 2008)

I need more info, Like was this plane or design ever used? I know its a Do-217


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## Arsenal VG-33 (Feb 19, 2008)

Definately a Mistel concept. I don't know about the top aircraft, but those are surely pulse jet motors like that of the V-1 Buzz-bomb, two of them.


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## Stukazoo (Feb 19, 2008)

B-17engineer said:


> I need more info, Like was this plane or design ever used? I know its a Do-217



Messerschmitt Me328


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## Stukazoo (Feb 19, 2008)

Dornier Do 217 Mistel Messerschmitt Me 328 im Shop bestellen


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## Njaco (Feb 19, 2008)

Here's one thats confused me. Never heard of a Bf 109 atop a glider. Anybody know about this one?


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## orion549 (Feb 19, 2008)

Probably another Mistel concept. From what I've heard/read they tested a lot of different setups for the program


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## Grampa (Feb 20, 2008)

Mistelschlepp combination, tested in 1943, of a Messerschmitt Bf 109E-1 attached to a modified DFS 230B (D-14-664). Althought successful, this method of launching the DFS glider was not adopted operationally.


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## comiso90 (Feb 20, 2008)

Grampa said:


> Mistelschlepp combination, tested in 1943, of a Messerschmitt Bf 109E-1 attached to a modified DFS 230B (D-14-664). Althought successful, this method of launching the DFS glider was not adopted operationally.



Interesting... drop gliders and provide air support.

More teeth than a C-47


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## Njaco (Feb 20, 2008)

THX, Grampa. Cosimo, love the new siggy!


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## A4K (Feb 20, 2008)

Yep, Grampa got it in one, and the top combination was the Me 328 V-1 test mounted above a Dornier Do 217E-4. This was NOT intended as a Mistel guided bomb, but for testing aerodynamics of the Me 328.


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## Grampa (Feb 20, 2008)

Here's a earlier British version


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## Njaco (Feb 20, 2008)

Jeez, like a hippo trying to mount a whale.


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## B-17engineer (Feb 20, 2008)

Yes


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## Heinz (Feb 21, 2008)

The flyingboat version is the most awkard looking of them all.


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## Elvis (Feb 22, 2008)

Hmmm, I seem to remember.....something....similar?....





























































































...gee, seems like yesterday I was watching that on the news.



Elvis


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## Graeme (Feb 22, 2008)

And another one. Rene Leduc and his amazing ramjet aircraft.


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## B-17engineer (Feb 22, 2008)

Hahaha thats wierd 
Odd, very odd


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## Njaco (Feb 24, 2008)

Thats great Elvis. Sometimes something is so common that when something similar comes along you forget what you're snickering at!


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## Elvis (Feb 25, 2008)

Thanks, Njaco!
I figure the idea was probably inspired by the German's efforts, though.

...wouldn't be the first time.




Elvis


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## Milos Sijacki (Feb 25, 2008)

Those Mistel configurations were really weird. I believe the first picture shows the proposed piloted version of a V-1 flying bomb.


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## A4K (Feb 25, 2008)

No, it was the Me 328 V1 in it's test mounting. 
The piloted version of the V1 flying bomb was the Fiesler Fi-103R Reichenberg, which although similar in concept, has a number of noticable differences.


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## A4K (Feb 26, 2008)

According to ’Mistel; Die Hucke-pack-Flugzeuge der Luftwaffe bis 1945’ (’The piggy-back aircraft of the Luftwaffe’) by Hans-Peter Dabrowski:

Aircraft mounted in ’Mistel’ set-up for flight testing (ie, not intended for use as Mistel)

Messerschmitt Me 328 V1 atop a Dornier Do 217E (1943)
Messerschmitt Me 328B atop a Do 217E-2 (1945)
DFS 228 atop a Dornier Do 217K-3 (194?) 
Bachem Ba 349 Natter atop a Heinkel He 111 (194?)

First Mistel aircraft test combinations (codes as per photos):

1.	DFS 230 (CB+ZB) with Klemm KL 35 (D-EXCM) control aircraft
2.	DFS 230 (CB+ZB) with Focke-Wulf Fw 56 Stösser (GA+GN) control aircraft
3.	DFS 230 (D-IEXX and D-14??) with Messerschmitt Bf 109E (no visible codes)

Foreign ’Mistel’:

The first to use the Mistel idea outside of Germany were the Italians, who used Savoia Marchetti Sm.79 aircraft as ’Grossbomben’ (’Giant bombs’)

The USAAF used „Aphrodite” aircraft, which were remotely controlled bombers (mostly war-weary Boeing B-17s) filled with circa 10 tons of Torpex explosive and painted bright yellow or white.

(More info in book if anyone's interested)


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## Elvis (Feb 26, 2008)

A4K said:


> The piloted version of the V1 flying bomb was the Fiesler Fi-103R Reichenberg, which although similar in concept, has a number of noticable differences.


Was that the same "vehicle" that was the subject of the movie "Operation Crossbow"?
I seem to remember them shooting that one off the ramp (ala V-1), but we all know how Hollywood like to take "Artistic Liberty's".



Elvis


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## Graeme (Feb 26, 2008)

Elvis said:


> Was that the same "vehicle" that was the subject of the movie "Operation Crossbow"?Elvis


 
That's the one.


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## Elvis (Feb 27, 2008)

Graeme said:


> That's the one.


YES! 
I FINALLY REMEMBERED SOMETHING CORRECTLY!

"..._I would like to thank the academy for this prestigeous award_..."


Thanks Graeme. 




Elvis


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## Njaco (Feb 27, 2008)




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## SoD Stitch (Feb 27, 2008)

B-17engineer said:


> I need more info, Like was this plane or design ever used? I know its a Do-217



I know that, toward the end of the War, the Germans were experimenting with their own version of the _Ohka_ Japanese kamikaze rocket plane; called _Reichenbergs_, they were, essentially, piloted V-1 bombs. Hanna Reitsch was big proponent of the _Reichenbergs_, and promoted them as the only way to stop the massive Allied air attacks on her homeland. The unit on top looks like a _Reichenberg_, but made by a different manufacturer.


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## kool kitty89 (Feb 27, 2008)

The Manned V-1 had better performance than the Ohka, and much better range. (2-300 miles, 400+ mph at full throttle at low altitude) 
They would have been much more useful as kamikazi weapons for the japanese with bombers not having to get too close (and getting shot down) and the possibility of land based operations. Or maybe an Ohka powered by a pulse jet. (the engines being very chap and simple to build)

Though the whole discussion of this is a bit morbid...


The only problem with a pulse jet fighter (besides vibration and fuel consumption) is a large drop in thrust with altitude.


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## A4K (Mar 7, 2008)

Interesting, thanks Kool Kitty!

..And Elvis...!


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## Krabat42 (Mar 7, 2008)

> 400+ mph at full throttle at low altitude



The problem with most Pulsojets is: There's only full throttle or full stop. I've seen this once on a model He-162 in Dachau. About 5 people were working hard to get it started and then it was extremely loud and with a big flame burning the grass. Great!


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## A4K (Mar 7, 2008)

I'd like to see that in 1:1 scale..!!


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## Elvis (Mar 8, 2008)

SoD Stitch said:


> I know that, toward the end of the War, the Germans were experimenting with their own version of the _Ohka_ Japanese kamikaze rocket plane; called _Reichenbergs_, they were, essentially, piloted V-1 bombs. Hanna Reitsch was big proponent of the _Reichenbergs_, and promoted them as the only way to stop the massive Allied air attacks on her homeland. The unit on top looks like a _Reichenberg_, but made by a different manufacturer.


Speaking of Ohka, I just remembered that my Dad was stationed at Johnson Air Base in Japan back in the 50's and they had an Ohka displayed on a big stand.






I saw the picture in a rememberance book that sits on their bookshelf.
Whenever Mom sees that, she starts talking about all the things she remembers of them living there.
In fact, my brother and sister attended _Gakko_, just outside of the base, when they were very young.
Somewhere, Mom has a couple of pics of them standing on the side of the road getting ready to head out.




Elvis


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## Elvis (Mar 8, 2008)

A4K said:


> I'd like to see that in 1:1 scale..!!


Modern adaptation of a Pulse Jet(s)..._if you're crazy enough_ (notice the absence of a helmet  )











The guy builds those from scratch...here's the website, incase you wanna talk a look-see... Pulse Jet Engine






Elvis


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## A4K (Mar 10, 2008)

EASY RIDER !!!! Nice one Elvis!


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## Elvis (Mar 10, 2008)

LOL!, thanks A4K.
What really gets me is that spindly front end and the fact that he's going about 100 mph!  

...and "_talk_ a look-see" ?

Sorry about that, it should read "*TAKE* a look-see".

 I need to get some sleep  




Elvis


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## A4K (Mar 10, 2008)

He's burning nitro too by the looks! ...he's almost mad enough to be a member of this forum!


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## Elvis (Mar 10, 2008)

From the section entitled: "Pulse Jet Project: The GoKart"

"_As I mentioned -- the kart doesn't even have a seat yet so I clamped a piece of wood onto two cross-members to stop my backside from scraping along the cement. 
This board was also a handy place to lash the 20lb propane tank which provides the fuel for this jet._"

So I guess its propane powered (there's a dirty joke in there...somewhere  ).




Elvis


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## A4K (Mar 10, 2008)

Hope it's strong wood, or he'll be leving one hell of a skid-mark!!! (Dirty joke in there somewhere too!  )


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## Njaco (Mar 10, 2008)

I love the glow behind his back. Can anybody say 'heat shield'?


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## Wombat (Mar 10, 2008)

B-17engineer said:


> I need more info, Like was this plane or design ever used? I know its a Do-217



Uhhh, looks like a Navion collided with a couple of V-1s and somehow landed on a passing Dornier bomber


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## A4K (Mar 11, 2008)

You'd almost expect Santa Claus and a couple of reindeer to be tangled up in it too somewhere eh, Wombat?!


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