# FIRST HELICOPTER AIR-TO-AIR KILL!



## FLYBOYJ (Aug 5, 2005)

It's a bit long - I heard about this elsewhere - copy right credits shown!



FREEDOM BIRD 
by Lawrence E. Pence 
Colonel, USAF (Ret) 
For most servicemen who served in Vietnam, the Freedom Bird was that civil airliner 
which took them back to the land of the big PX at the end of their tour. Mine was a bit different 
sort of Freedom Bird. 

In mid-1967, as a junior Air Force Captain, I was detailed to 7th AF Hq in Saigon as an 
Air Technical Intelligence Liason Officer, short name: ATLO (the “I” gets left out, as people look 
strangely at anyone who calls himself an ATILO, thinking he is somehow related to Atilla the 
Hun). My job was to provide 7AF and the air war the best technical intelligence support that 
the Foreign Technology Division of AF Systems Command (my parent org­anization) could 
provide, in whatever area or discipline needed. Also I was to collect such technical 
intelligence as became available. This was a tall order for a young Captain, and this 
assignment provided much excitement, including the Tet Offensive. 

At that time, Operation Rolling Thunder was underway, the bombing of military targets in 
North Vietnam. The weather in NVN was often lousy, making it difficult to find and accurately 
strike the assigned targets, so a radar control system was set up to direct the srike force to their 
targets. This system was installed on a remote, sheer-sided karst mountain just inside Laos on the 
northern Laos/NVN border. The site could be accessed only by helicopter or a tortuous trail 
winding up the near-vertical mountainside, so it was judged to be easily defensible. The 
mountaintop was relatively flat and about 30 acres in size. 

On it was a tiny Hmong village called Phu Pha Ti, a small garrison of Thai and Meo 
mercenaries for defense, a helicopter pad and ops shack for the CIA-owned Air America Airline, 
and the radar site, which was manned by "sheep-dipped" US Air Force enlisted men in civilian 
clothes. Both the US and NVN paid lip service to the fiction that Laos was a neutral country, and 
no foreign military were stationed there, when in reality we had a couple of hundred people spread 
over several sites, and NVN had thousands on the Ho Chi Minh trail in eastern Laos. This 
partic­ular site was called Lima (L for Laos) Site 85. The fighter-bomber crews called it Channel 
97 (the radar frequency), and all aircrews called it North Station, since it was the furthest north 
facility in "friendly" territory. Anywhere north of North Station was bad guy land. 

The Channel 97 radar system was an old SAC precision bomb scoring radar which 
could locate an aircraft to within a few meters at a hundred miles. In this application, the 
strike force would fly out from Lima Site 85 a given distance on a given radial, and the site 
operators would tell the strike leader precisely when to release his bomb load. It was 
surprisingly accurate, and allowed the strikes to be run at night or in bad weather. This 
capability was badly hurting the North Vietnamese war effort, so they decided to take out Lima 
Site 85. 

Because of the difficulty of mounting a ground assault on Lima Site 85, and its remote 
location, an air strike was planned. Believe it or not, the NVNAF chose biplanes as their "strike 
bombers!" This has to be the only combat use of biplanes since the 1930's. The aircraft used 
were Antonov designed AN-2 general purpose 'workhorse" biplanes with a single 1000hp radial 
piston engine and about one ton payload. Actually, once you get past the obvious "Snoopy and the 
Red Baron" image, the AN-2 was not a bad choice for this mission. Its biggest disadvantage is, like 
all biplanes, it is slow. The Russians use the An-2 for a multitude of things, such as medevac, 
parachute training, flying school bus, crop dusting, and so on. An AN-2 just recently flew over the 
North Pole. In fact, if you measure success of an aircraft design by the criteria of number 
produced and length of time in series production, you could say that the AN-2 is the most 
successful aircraft design in the history of aviation! 

The NVNAF fitted out their AN-2 "attack bombers with a 12 shot 57mm folding fin aerial rocket pod 
under each lower wing, and 20 250mm mortar rounds with aerial bomb fuses set in vertical tubes let 
into the floor of the aircraft cargo bay. These were dropped through holes cut in the cargo bay floor. 
Simple hinged bomb-bay doors closed these holes in flight. The pilot could salvo his bomb load by 
opening these doors. This was a pretty good munitions load to take out a soft, undefended target 
like a radar site. Altogether, the mission was well planned and equipped and should have been 
successful, but Murphy's Law prevailed. 

A three plane strike force was mounted, with two attack air­craft and one standing off as 
command and radio relay. They knew the radar site was on the mountaintop, but they did not 
have good intelligence as to its precise location, It was well camou­flaged, and could not be seen 
readily from the air. They also did not realize that we had "anti-aircraft artillery" and "air de­fense 
interceptor" forces at the site. Neither did we realize this. 

The AN-2 strike force rolled in on the target, mistook the Air America ops shack for the 
radar site, and proceeded to venti­late it. The aforementioned “anti-aircraft artillery” force- one 
little Thai mercenary about five feet tall and all balls- heard the commotion, ran out on the 
helicopter pad, stood in the path of the attacking aircraft spraying rockets and bombs everywhere, 
and emptied a 27-round clip from his AK-47 into the AN-2, which then crashed and burned. At 
this juncture, the second attack aircraft broke of and turned north towards home. 

The "air defense interceptor" force was an unarmed Air Amer­ica Huey helicopter 
which was by happenstance on the pad at the time, the pilot and flight mechanic having a 
Coke in the ops shack. When holes started appearing in the roof, they ran to their Huey and 
got airborne, not quite believing the sight of two biplanes fleeing north. Then the Huey pilot, 
no slouch in the balls department either, realized that his Huey was faster than the biplanes! 
So he did the only thing a real pilot could do-attack! 

The Huey overtook the AN-2’s a few miles inside North Viet­nam, unknown to the 
AN-2’s as their rearward visibility is nil. The Huey flew over the rearmost AN-2 and the 
helicopter’s down-wash stalled out the upper wing of the AN-2. Suddenly the hapless AN-2 pilot 
found himself sinking like a stone! So he pulled the yoke back in his lap and further reduced his 
forward speed. Mean­while, the Huey flight mechanic, not to be outdone in the macho contest, 
crawled out on the Huey’s skid and, one-handed, emptied his AK-47 into the cockpit area of the 
AN-2, killing or wounding the pilot and copilot. At this point, the AN-2 went into a flat spin and 
crashed into a moutainside, but did not burn. 

It should come as no surprise that the Air America pilot and flight mechanic found 
themselves in a heap of trouble with the State Department REMF’s in Vientiane. (REMF is an 
acronym. The first three words are Rear, Echelon, and Mother.) In spite of the striped-pants 
cookie-pushers' discomfort at (horrors!) an inter­national incident (or perhaps, partly because of 
it) these guys were heroes to everybody in the theatre who didn't wear puce panties and talk with 
a lisp. They accomplished a couple of firsts: (1) The first and only combat shootdown of a biplane 
by a helicopter, and (2) The first known CIA air-to-air victory. Not bad for a couple of spooks. 

Communication with Headquarters was very good in Vietnam, and I learned of this 
incident within an hour or so of its happening, although I had no details. But the prospect of 
access to a North Vietnamese aircraft of any sort was very attractive to an intell type, so I grabbed 
my flyaway kit and headed for Udorn AFB in northern Thailand, where I knew I could get 
transport to the crash site from the Air Rescue and Recovery Service (ARRS), the Jolly Green 
Giants. Sure enough, the next morning we headed for bad guy land with a flight of three Jolly 
Green Giants. The State Department geniuses had decided to cover their ample butts by having the 
remains of the AN-2 airlifted down to Vientiane to put on display to an outraged world press, thus 
proving that North Vietnam had violated Laotian neutrality by sending armed aircraft against a 
peaceful civil airline facility. Yawn. The Air Force went along with it because it provided good 
cover for our intell­igence operation. Of course, when State found out that I had gone in without 
saying Mother-may-I to them, they were really hot. But by then I had already gotten the goods we 
wanted, and what could they do to me? Fire me and send me to Vietnam? 

We found the crashed AN-2 a few miles inside NVN. There were already some Meo 
mercenaries there led by a CIA field type, whose mission was to bag the crew's bodies and check 
to see if they were Russians. They weren't. The jungle and rough terrain precluded landing, so 
we went in by jungle penetrator, a cable-mounted weighted affair somewhat like a large plumb 
bob. I would have liked to parachute in because a behind-the-lines jump is considered a combat 
jump, opposed or not, but the jungle and rough terrain would have made that very dangerous. I 
may be a little crazy- all parachutists are- but I'm not stupid. With me went a couple of PS's- 
pararescue specialists. These men are elite young tigers who regularly risk their lives to save 
downed aircrews. They are universally and deservedly admired and respected. The PS's function 
was to rig a sling on the AN-2 so it could be lifted out, and to look after me. I was very glad they 
were there. 

I was delighted to find the crashed AN-2 had the piece of equipment aboard that I had 
hoped to find, a brand new undamaged IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) electronic "black box". 
An IFF ~ a coded signal when interrogated by a friendly radar, thus identifying itself as a friendly. 
All combat aircraft have an IFF, and I had felt certain that the AN-2 would have been fitted with it 
for this mission. We had never before gotten our hands on one in undamaged condition. With this, 
we could "reverse engineer" a system which could reliably locate the small, sleek, elusive MiG-21's 
before they could sneak up on our strike air­craft. And we did just that, greatly improving the RED 
CROWN warning system we had at that time. This capability saved a good many crews and 
aircraft during the later years of that miserable war. I am very proud to have had a hand in this 
effort. 

After rigging the sling on the AN-2, and finishing my intell collection, we tried to lift it 
out, but it was too heavy for the Jolly Green helo. (We sent in an Army Chinook heavy-lift 
helo the next day to lift it down to Vientiane.) All this activity took several hours. Suddenly 
we got a call from the Jollys that an RS57 had been shot down somewhere north and had 
strung bailed-out crew members along a twenty mile path. An all-out rescue effort was 
required and our helicopters were being pulled off our mission immediately, without even time 
to pick us up. They would be back to get us when they could. Suddenly, what had been a 
relatively low risk in-and-out mission took on a whole different aspect. I knew from good 
intell that there were NVN Army elements in the vicinity, and they would no doubt be 
directed to find and destroy the crashed AN-2. All the stooging around with noisy helicopters 
we had done that morning, plus voluminous radio comms, could not have failed to alert them. 
We were four Ameri­cans, who knew not ten words of Umong between us, and about a 
dozen Meo mercenaries, none of whom spoke English. Our arms consisted of three -38 
revolvers, my Colt 1911 .45 automatic, and the Meos' ragtag lot of Ml's, Ml4's, and '03 
Springfields. We had very little ammo, no water, no rations, no flares or smoke grenades, not 
even a compass. We did have short range ground-to-air radios, and a promise to return for us, but 
who knew when that would be. Not a good situation. 

After a hasty conference, we decided to remain at the crash site until an hour or so before 
dark, and then move off and find a defensible place to spend the night, if necessary. So we 
waited. Late that afternoon, we heard a helicopter and got a call that the big rescue operation was 
completed, and we should saddle up for extraction. I can't begin to describe how relieved we were 
to see that big beautiful Freedom Bird flying toward us. Our Freedom Bird picked us up with no 
problem, and we were back at Udorn in time for Happy Hour. No ARRS crewman ever bought his 
own drink at any club in 'Nam. I can assure you none did that night. 

As a postscript, Lima Site 85 was overrun by ground troops about a month after the 
bombing attempt, and all US personnel were killed or captured. The comm guys who heard their 
last mess­ages said it was a pitiful situation as the site team reported the attackers' progress at 
getting at them in their cave bunker. The official version of what happened is that North 
Vietnamese troops climbed the sheer sides of the mountain with ropes and pitons to attack the 
site. I didn't believe it then, and I don't believe it now. The attack had all the earmarks of a 
Spetsnaz operation, probably insertion by a HALO parachute team, but un­less the Russians admit 
it we will probably never know. 

Of interest, the History Channel in their Missions of CIA series, did a one hour 
documentary on the Lima Site 85 incident which I saw a few months ago. It showed footage of 
the AN-2 in Vientiane, and discussed the ground assault (the "official" version). All in all, they did a 
pretty good job with it, espec­ially considering that it was over thirty years ago. They got some 
things wrong, and some they never knew about, but they weren't there at the time. I was. 

© HOME FRONT PRESS 
http://nationalcapitolsquadron.com 
A monthly publication of the American Air Power Heritage 
Flying Museum's National Capitol Squadron , 2001.


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## me262 (Aug 5, 2005)

wow, that was neat!!!!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 5, 2005)

Good stuff.


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## evangilder (Aug 5, 2005)

Very interesting. The AN-2 is one humungous biplane. Until you see one up close, you can't believe the size of it for a single engine biplane. Brave guys on the Huey! Real brave! 

As an aside, what he called PS guys are not called PJs, or Pararescue Jumpers. I worked with some of those guys in the AF and I can tell you, they are hard core!

Great story, Joe!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 6, 2005)

We had a messed up An-2 at our camp in Iraq. After looking at it I was amazed the thing would fly at all.


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## evangilder (Aug 6, 2005)

It's really amazing to watch it take off and land too. Quite amazing STOL capabilities for an airplane of it's size.


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 6, 2005)

I'd like to see one one day. Great story, FJ.


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## Gnomey (Aug 6, 2005)

Nice story FBJ, those guys had some guts!


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 6, 2005)

Thanks Guys - This could be a movie


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## lesofprimus (Aug 6, 2005)

I heard something about this before, awhile ago.... Great story....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 7, 2005)

I did not have my camara this weekend but there is one in my wifes home town about 2 minutes from my inlaws house. I dont know if it is in flying condition but I saw it sitting there today.


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## evangilder (Aug 7, 2005)

Here are a few shots of the CAFs AN-2 Colt, dubbed "Big Panda". I still remember the first time I saw it, I thought it was some kind of joke. I didn't think a biplane that big with only one engine could really fly! Info below from warbird alley:

*Nicknames*: Annushka ("Little Annie"); Big Ant; Colt (NATO code name; Kukuruznick ("Corn-Eater")

*Specifications (An-2P)*:
Engine: One 1,000-hp Shvetsov ASh-62IR radial piston engine
Weight: Empty 7605 lbs., Max Takeoff 12,125 lbs.
Wing Span: 59ft. 7.75in.(Upper), 46ft. 8.5in. (Lower).
Length: 41ft. 9.5in.
Height: 13ft. 1.5in.
Performance:
Maximum Speed at 5,700 ft: 160 mph
Economy Cruising Speed: 115 mph
Ceiling: 14,425 ft.
Range: 560 miles with 1,100-pound payload
Armament: None

*Number Built*: 20,000+


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 7, 2005)

Nice shots Eric! Where is that thing hangared?


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## evangilder (Aug 7, 2005)

Thanks, Joe. It's the Upland Wing of the CAF. They are based at Cable Airport. They are also the ones that have the Martlett that frequents our museum. The recently had a reunion for YO-3A pilots! Few people know about the YO-3.

The website for the 3rd Pursuit Squadron of the CAF is at:
http://www.3rdpursuit.com/


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 7, 2005)

WOW YO-3 "silent bird." Some of the old timers at Lockheed used to talk about that thing!

Thanks for the info - we had some polite words with them at Gullespi. One of their pilots didin't understand "airport closed for airshow practice" and decided to take off whlie we were flying over the field at about 1000' agl @ 250 kts.....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 8, 2005)

Yo-3 which aircraft was that?


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## evangilder (Aug 8, 2005)

It was an observation plane used in Vietnam that carried infrared sensors and was very quiet. It used a wooden prop and is one of the few (Maybe only) airplane to actually use a muffler! You can get a pretty good history about the YO-3 here:
http://www.yo-3a.com/pages/3/page3.html?refresh=1121470353961


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 10, 2005)

Okay I know what plane you are talking about now.


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## youpendejo (Feb 27, 2009)

I dont want to act as I would be cool nor am I anti american but this is such a bullshit story, omg, how could anyone believe this load of ****,
this is part of another stupid try to overplay the vietnam trauma in telling how the GIs had to improvise against hordes of VC and NVAs, because Washington shitted its troops. Someone watched too much Chuck Norris Movies. OMG!!!!

It could be that Iraq had the first A-A kill against an Cobra with a Hind, but I have to look for it.


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 27, 2009)

youpendejo said:


> I dont want to act as I would be cool nor am I anti american but this is such a bullshit story, omg, how could anyone believe this load of ****,
> this is part of another stupid try to overplay the vietnam trauma in telling how the GIs had to improvise against hordes of VC and NVAs, because Washington shitted its troops. Someone watched too much Chuck Norris Movies. OMG!!!!
> 
> It could be that Iraq had the first A-A kill against an Cobra with a Hind, but I have to look for it.



I hate to say it but you're an idiot - this action has been confirmed and verified by those who were there as well as witnesses on both sides. I'll tell you for your first post you've proven the term Sh!t for brains. - Read below [email protected] and I hope you put more thought into your future posts (if any)


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 27, 2009)

youpendejo said:


> I dont want to act as I would be cool nor am I anti american but this is such a bullshit story, omg, how could anyone believe this load of ****,
> this is part of another stupid try to overplay the vietnam trauma in telling how the GIs had to improvise against hordes of VC and NVAs, because Washington shitted its troops. Someone watched too much Chuck Norris Movies. OMG!!!!
> 
> It could be that Iraq had the first A-A kill against an Cobra with a Hind, but I have to look for it.


Here's another story of Lima Site 85.

The Fall of Lima Site 85
Now read it and stop being a d!ck.


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 27, 2009)

And more

Lima Site 85 Painting


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 27, 2009)

and more

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...studies/vol52no2/iac/an-air-combat-first.html


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 27, 2009)

And more

http://www.air-america.org/newspaper_articles/rgj_moore_ls85.pdf


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## HoHun (Feb 27, 2009)

Hi Eric,

>It used a wooden prop and is one of the few (Maybe only) airplane to actually use a muffler! 

To get back on topic, here is a mufflered Antonov An-2 

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## youpendejo (Feb 27, 2009)

I AM JUST TOO STUPID TO POST ON THIS SITE!


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 27, 2009)

youpendejo said:


> I AM JUST TOO STUPID TO POST ON THIS SITE!



Bye bye meatball!


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## Flyboy2 (Feb 27, 2009)

Question... Doesn't this youpendejo fellow keep popping up with different names, because I think somebody with that Homer Simpson brain scan picture has popped up and got fried like three or four times since I've been around. Resisliant and brash little bugger eh?

Anyways great story!!! Really amazing


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 27, 2009)

Flyboy2 said:


> Question... Doesn't this youpendejo fellow keep popping up with different names, because I think somebody with that Homer Simpson brain scan picture has popped up and got fried like three or four times since I've been around. Resisliant and brash little bugger eh?
> 
> Anyways great story!!! Really amazing



Actually the Avatar is complements of the mods, lets call it a going away gift. 

This turd was doomed from the start - usually I would of allowed him to present his argument then I looked at his name and determined

1. He's an idiot
2. It was very likely his time here would be short

Anyway a great story and VERY TRUE!!!


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## fly boy (Feb 27, 2009)

wait i don't under stand did the choper get the kill or the plane


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 27, 2009)

fly boy said:


> wait i don't under stand did the choper get the kill or the plane



READ THE CLIPS AGAIN - SLOWLY. ENLARGE THE FONT IF YOU HAVE TO.


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## Matt308 (Feb 28, 2009)




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## Flyboy2 (Feb 28, 2009)

Haha so do the mod add that Avatar to the idiots who get fried  nice!


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## parsifal (Mar 5, 2009)

someone tried to tell me once you can loop some choppers. I dont believe thats true. But any truth to it???


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 5, 2009)

parsifal said:


> someone tried to tell me once you can loop some choppers. I dont believe thats true. But any truth to it???



Very True...


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNvhPQ8S0aU_


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## SoD Stitch (Mar 5, 2009)

parsifal said:


> someone tried to tell me once you can loop some choppers. I dont believe thats true. But any truth to it???



I'm sure there are some others here who know a lot more about helicopter mechanics than I do (DerAdler comes to mind), but I believe the difference between a helicopter that can be looped and one that can't has to do with the rotor system; I believe helicopters with an articulated rotor system, as opposed to a rigid rotor system, can be looped. Others can correct me if I'm wrong.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 5, 2009)

parsifal said:


> someone tried to tell me once you can loop some choppers. I dont believe thats true. But any truth to it???



Yeah you can. There are lots of Helos than can do barrel rolls and loops and everything including: AH-64A Apache, UH-60 Blackhawk, Lynx, Bo 105, Mangusta, etc...



SoD Stitch said:


> I'm sure there are some others here who know a lot more about helicopter mechanics than I do (DerAdler comes to mind), but I believe the difference between a helicopter that can be looped and one that can't has to do with the rotor system; I believe helicopters with an articulated rotor system, as opposed to a rigid rotor system, can be looped. Others can correct me if I'm wrong.



Actually you have it backwards. Helos with a rigid rotor system can perform loops, etc...


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## parsifal (Mar 5, 2009)

thanks guys, I have learnt something today....


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## SoD Stitch (Mar 5, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Yeah you can. There are lots of Helos than can do barrel rolls and loops and everything including: AH-64A Apache, UH-60 Blackhawk, Lynx, Bo 105, Mangusta, etc...
> 
> 
> 
> Actually you have it backwards. Helos with a rigid rotor system can perform loops, etc...



Got it; thanks for the clarification. parsifal, if you want to watch a cool helicopter movie and see one get looped, watch "Blue Thunder", with the late Roy Scheider.


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## Graeme (Mar 5, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Helos with a rigid rotor system can perform loops, etc...



Was the Sikorsky S-67 Blackhawk the first helicopter capable of performing aerobatics?



 

Sikorsky S-67 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Mar 6, 2009)

Very interesting story FBJ. Thanks for posting.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 6, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Was the Sikorsky S-67 Blackhawk the first helicopter capable of performing aerobatics?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do not know that, but I do not think so either.


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## Milos Sijacki (Mar 7, 2009)

Interesting story. I also heard that MI-24 HIND managed to shoot down a F-4 with its gun. True or false?

This Sikorsky S-67 looked cool.


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 7, 2009)

Milos Sijacki said:


> Interesting story. I also heard that MI-24 HIND managed to shoot down a F-4 with its gun. True or false?
> 
> This Sikorsky S-67 looked cool.



The only place I could think of this happening was in Iraq during the Iraq/ Iran war and I found no evidence of this. Here's some info...

Iraqi Air-to-Air Victories since 1967 - acig.org


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## Milos Sijacki (Mar 7, 2009)

Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat - Google Book Search

This is the link to the article about the Iraq/Iran war where there is a claim that the Iraqi Mi-24 shot down an Iranian F-4.

Hope the link works


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 7, 2009)

Milos Sijacki said:


> ]
> This is the link to the article about the Iraq/Iran war where there is a claim that the Iraqi Mi-24 shot down an Iranian F-4.
> 
> Hope the link works



I see it - the main word is "claim." I see no other info. Possible? Yes. Probable? Hard to say - the the Iraqis and Iranias really slugged it out and there were some lop-sided kills on both sides.

Iranian Air-to-Air Victories, 1982-Today

Iraqi Air-to-Air Victories since 1967 - acig.org


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## imalko (Aug 23, 2009)

Very interesting article there about first helicopter air-to-air kill. I never heard about that before, but I guess it's never too late to learn something new.

Same as Miloš I was also under impression that first helicopter air-to-air kill occurred during Iran-Iraq war when Iraqi Mi-24 shoot down one Iranian F-4. This event was mentioned in a book "Borbeni helikopteri" (Combat Helicopters) by Radomir Vujković and Aleksandar Radić in a context of development and operational use of Mi-24.

As a side note the An-2 is still in use in Serbia in variety of roles from crop dusting to paratroopers training. Don't know how many examples are in use though.


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## Butters (Aug 23, 2009)

I got a chance a couple of years ago to sit at the controls of an An-2 and actually fly it around for half an hour. For $45!

I met the crew at the Nova Scotia International Air Show, where they had it on static display. They use it as a sky-diving plane, and will take up passengers during their sky-diving flights. 

On the day I went for my hop, the pilot told me that after the last jump of the day, they were going to another airport for maintenance work. So we arranged for one of the owners to drive my car to the other field, and I got an extra-long flight. It was a unique and wonderful experience

JL

PS: The company is West River Sky Sports, in case anyone gets to Nova Scotia and wants a flight in the world's biggest biplane.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 23, 2009)

Butters said:


> I got a chance a couple of years ago to sit at the controls of an An-2 and actually fly it around for half an hour. For $45!
> 
> I met the crew at the Nova Scotia International Air Show, where they had it on static display. They use it as a sky-diving plane, and will take up passengers during their sky-diving flights.
> 
> ...



Such a deal!

I helped a guy who owned one with his annual condition inspections. Easy airplane to work on but the one I dealt with had an "executive" interior and was kind of plush - hard to get to some inspection items.

Pneumatic brakes, typical of Soviet/ East bloc design with the brake on the yoke. This one had an air pump that replenished the pneumatic system.


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## GaryMcL (Aug 23, 2009)

For further sources, in the February 2009 issue of Flight Journal Barrett Tillman has an article titled 'An Unlikely Shootdown - Duel at Lima Site 85'. He also cites a book by Timothy Castle titled "One Day Tool Long - The Story of Top Secret Site 85 and the Bombing of North Vietnam" published by Columbia University Press.

According to the article, the Huey pilot was Theodore H. Moore, an Army gunship pilot, and the crew chief was Glenn R. Wood. Moore survived the war and Wood was KIA in a helo crash 18 months later.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 24, 2009)

GaryMcL said:


> For further sources, in the February 2009 issue of Flight Journal Barrett Tillman has an article titled 'An Unlikely Shootdown - Duel at Lima Site 85'. He also cites a book by Timothy Castle titled "One Day Tool Long - The Story of Top Secret Site 85 and the Bombing of North Vietnam" published by Columbia University Press.
> 
> According to the article, the Huey pilot was Theodore H. Moore, an Army gunship pilot, and the crew chief was Glenn R. Wood. Moore survived the war and Wood was KIA in a helo crash 18 months later.



https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...studies/vol52no2/iac/an-air-combat-first.html


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## Butters (Aug 25, 2009)

Well, the one I was in certainly had no executive amenities. It was all scuffed white paint, hard angled metal, and exposed fasteners, even the seats. It was like an airborne version of a '30's farm tractor. It went about as fast, too 

JL


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## XBe02Drvr (Jan 21, 2018)

We had an AN2 crop duster from Cuba drop in on us at NAS Key West one morning in the early 70s. Sneaked in under the radar just as tower and approach control were in the middle of a shift change. The massive hopper was jammed full of refugees who had had enough of Fidel's workers paradise. The pilot had "waterskiied" on the plane's massive tundra tires all the way from some little strip in Oriente Province at about 40 knots. Immigration came and rounded up the people and some special ops guys from Eglin flew the plane out after dark, and nobody off base even knew it happened.
Cheers,
Wes


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## ARTESH (Jan 30, 2018)

Milos Sijacki said:


> Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat - Google Book Search
> 
> This is the link to the article about the Iraq/Iran war where there is a claim that the Iraqi Mi-24 shot down an Iranian F-4.
> 
> Hope the link works



Iranian F-4 was intercepted and shot down by Iraqi MiG -23 flown by Capt. Samir Yaser, Not by Chopper.
It was heavily damaged due to an engagement with 3 Iraqi choppers at "Jafir", an small town in Khuzistan.
Pilots were Ejected and rescued with a SAR team.


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