# Suprise



## billrunnels (Nov 21, 2017)

We were on the way back to base following the completion of an aerial gunnery training flight when our belly turret gunner yelled, "Get me up, Get me up". The tone of his voice suggested he was in a state of panic and well he should have been. The back half ( escape hatch ) of his turret had fallen off and the wind was beating him to death. The radio operator and waist gunners got him out of the turret in a hurry. Talk about big eyes, he had them. However, this experience did not dampen his love for the belly turret on the B-17. He really liked his assignment. This turret is the only position on the aircraft that I refused to try while in flight. I wanted no part of it. As I recall, statistics suggested it to be one of the safest places to be during combat.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 21, 2017)

It is certainly the one position that I never could have done. Nope, not going to put me inside a ball of metal and glass, and then suspend me from the belly of the aircraft. Ball Turret gunners had much bigger balls than me. Nope...


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## at6 (Nov 21, 2017)

No thanks. If I'm not in a position to quickly exit, me no go.


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## Tim Moore (Nov 22, 2017)

Bill, please correct me if wrong, but it was my understanding that the belly turret operator could get himself in and out of the turret by himself if necessary. While working with the National Mighty Eighth Museum in Savannah, they gave me a tour of their B-17 and its newly installed and functional belly turret. I did not get inside the turret or operate it, but they showed me the internal controls and its operation. Could your belly turret gunner not rotate the turret and get himself out, or did he just panic and call for help?


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## billrunnels (Nov 22, 2017)

Tim Moore said:


> Bill, please correct me if wrong, but it was my understanding that the belly turret operator could get himself in and out of the turret by himself if necessary. While working with the National Mighty Eighth Museum in Savannah, they gave me a tour of their B-17 and its newly installed and functional belly turret. I did not get inside the turret or operate it, but they showed me the internal controls and its operation. Could your belly turret gunner not rotate the turret and get himself out, or did he just panic and call for help?


Yes he could have rotated the turret but in a state of panic he was holding on and wanted help. I think one of our waist gunners generally helped him in and out any way.

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## Crimea_River (Nov 22, 2017)

Wow, that certainly would be frightening.


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## fubar57 (Nov 22, 2017)

Love these stories. Do to my size I feel I would have had no other choice but the belly turret

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## airminded88 (Nov 22, 2017)

Harrowing story Bill!

I don't have anything but the greatest respect and admiration for those gunners who flew to harm's way riding in those ball turrets.
Talk about nerves of steel!

Anybody remember the episode called "The Mission" starred by a young Kevin Costner that was part of the 1980's fantasy series Amazing Stories?
That was the first time that I laid eyes upon a B-17 which in the story was flying home with its ball turret gunner trapped in an inoperable ball turret and all the hydraulic systems shut off.


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## Gnomey (Nov 22, 2017)

Harrowing Bill. Not sure I'd managed to be a ball gunner either...


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## billrunnels (Nov 22, 2017)

fubar57 said:


> Love these stories. Do to my size I feel I would have had no other choice but the belly turret


You probably would have been a good fit. However, on some crews the gunners rotated through the Ball Turret position.,


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## Tim Moore (Nov 22, 2017)

You know, that story about the ball turret gunner being trapped and faced with death from a belly landing has some legs but may be a myth. As far as I can tell, that story originated with Andy Rooney of “60 Minutes” fame, who was a war correspondent. I can find no other source for this. Donald Miller repeated the story in his book, “Masters of the Air”, citing Rooney. In the Rooney story, the ball turret gunner knows he is going to die and talks to the crew before his inevitable demise. There just doesn’t seem to be any corrobative accounts. Spielberg then made that Amazing Stories episode based on that folklore. I would greatly appreciate it if someone could find a documented account of such an event, based on an actual mission report and not an anecdote.


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## XBe02Drvr (Nov 25, 2017)

fubar57 said:


> Love these stories. Do to my size I feel I would have had no other choice but the belly turret


One of my dad's colleagues was a B-17 ball gunner. He was a big-framed guy 6'2" tall and said he always had to be helped in and out of the turret. I'm 6'5" and having looked at 909's ball, don't think I'd ever fit. I can't drive a bug-eye Sprite and it took a shoehorn to get me in the back of a TA-4F.
Cheers,
Wes


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## rochie (Nov 25, 2017)

fubar57 said:


> Love these stories. Do to my size I feel I would have had no other choice but the belly turret


same here mate !

i expect it would've been " get in there short arse "


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## pbehn (Nov 25, 2017)

XBe02Drvr said:


> One of my dad's colleagues was a B-17 ball gunner. He was a big-framed guy 6'2" tall and said he always had to be helped in and out of the turret. I'm 6'5" and having looked at 909's ball, don't think I'd ever fit. I can't drive a bug-eye Sprite and it took a shoehorn to get me in the back of a TA-4F.
> Cheers,
> Wes


There are several British gun turrets at the Yorkshire Air museum Elvington. I was there a few weeks ago and looking at them is a strange optical illusion, from a distance they look big but when you get right up close they are so full of "stuff" it is hard to see where the gunner fitted in

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## billrunnels (Nov 25, 2017)

XBe02Drvr said:


> One of my dad's colleagues was a B-17 ball gunner. He was a big-framed guy 6'2" tall and said he always had to be helped in and out of the turret. I'm 6'5" and having looked at 909's ball, don't think I'd ever fit. I can't drive a bug-eye Sprite and it took a shoehorn to get me in the back of a TA-4F.
> Cheers,
> Wes


At6'5" - no way


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## dogsbody (Nov 25, 2017)

Wow! Talk about your high pucker factors!


Chris


billrunnels said:


> We were on the way back to base following the completion of an aerial gunnery training flight when our belly turret gunner yelled, "Get me up, Get me up". The tone of his voice suggested he was in a state of panic and well he should have been. The back half ( escape hatch ) of his turret had fallen off and the wind was beating him to death. The radio operator and waist gunners got him out of the turret in a hurry. Talk about big eyes, he had them. However, this experience did not dampen his love for the belly turret on the B-17. He really liked his assignment. This turret is the only position on the aircraft that I refused to try while in flight. I wanted no part of it. As I recall, statistics suggested it to be one of the safest places to be during combat.


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## Andrew Johnson (Nov 25, 2017)

Tim Moore said:


> You know, that story about the ball turret gunner being trapped and faced with death from a belly landing has some legs but may be a myth. As far as I can tell, that story originated with Andy Rooney of “60 Minutes” fame, who was a war correspondent. I can find no other source for this. Donald Miller repeated the story in his book, “Masters of the Air”, citing Rooney. In the Rooney story, the ball turret gunner knows he is going to die and talks to the crew before his inevitable demise. There just doesn’t seem to be any corrobative accounts. Spielberg then made that Amazing Stories episode based on that folklore. I would greatly appreciate it if someone could find a documented account of such an event, based on an actual mission report and not an anecdote.


I believe that mostly stemmed from the B-24's ball turret, which actually had to retract into the fuselage during takeoff and landing to avoid hitting it.


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