# Damaged Warplane Thread



## R-2800 (Jan 10, 2007)

Place where you can post all the damaged warplane photos you can find, it can be any era or country

















can't forget this one!











Halifax II MZ559 at Old Buckenham - 3 Sep '44 after being hit by 1,000lb bomb over Venlo 2


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## Chingachgook (Jan 10, 2007)

Cool. That first image is from my Dad's cousins plane - He was tail gunner on Dottie Jane when they took that 88 hit. He took some shrapnel wounds.

He died about a year ago.

Details at 447th Bomb Group

Here is the underside...


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## Chingachgook (Jan 10, 2007)

... underside of Dottie Jane


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## Chingachgook (Jan 10, 2007)

This is my all-time favorite aircraft image of ww2 (and my former avatar).

Thanks to Dan Johnson (his image).


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## R-2800 (Jan 11, 2007)

wow nice! i've seen the underside pic before and I think there is more photos of the plane but im not sure


sorry it's so big!!


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## Chingachgook (Jan 11, 2007)

Is that top one Miss Irish? Damn, that is a nasty hit.


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## R-2800 (Jan 11, 2007)

nope miss Irish was way worse then that

Battle-Damaged B-17 Flying Fortresses: Intro page


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 11, 2007)

Ching I like the spitfire one you posted. You can see the pain on the pilot there.


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## Gnomey (Jan 11, 2007)

Yeah you can. Here is a site for damaged B-17's: Battle-Damaged B-17 Flying Fortresses: Contents


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## Chingachgook (Jan 11, 2007)

That last B-17 must be in France - it looks like there is an early 2CV on the far right... ???


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## R-2800 (Jan 11, 2007)

I don't know looks like one though!!


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## Wildcat (Jan 11, 2007)

Here's some I have. Don't know the stories behind them though...


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## R-2800 (Jan 11, 2007)

nice!!


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## Chingachgook (Jan 11, 2007)

Cool, I have not seen these before Wildcat. thx


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 12, 2007)

interestingly 3 of these 5 are Mk.IIs!


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## Chingachgook (Jan 12, 2007)

Lancs are tough too!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 12, 2007)

certainly moreso than they've given credit for, they're often said to be weaker than the american bombers but that's mostly the B-17, just what is tougher than a B-17


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## Matt308 (Jan 12, 2007)

A P-47


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 13, 2007)

if you loose an engine in a P-47 you find you'll run out of options very, very quickly as you sink like a 15,000lb stone


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## mkloby (Jan 13, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> if you loose an engine in a P-47 you find you'll run out of options very, very quickly as you sink like a 15,000lb stone



I was trying to find the Power off/clean feathered glide ratio of the 47 - didn't find anything reliable. Saw some that said 1:1, but I wouldn't think that could be right, it's so damn low. At that rate you'd need 6,000ft to glide 1nm  

Even my bulky TC-12B glides at 12:1 clean w/ both props feathered.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 13, 2007)

but is she the size of a house and the mass of your average McDonalds frequenter?


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## mkloby (Jan 13, 2007)

TC-12B has an empty weight of 9000lbs.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 13, 2007)

i've got the empty weight of the P-47N at 11,000lbs with a MTOW at 20,700lbs, i win


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## mkloby (Jan 13, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> i've got the empty weight of the P-47N at 11,000lbs with a MTOW at 20,700lbs, i win



Yes lanc... you win.


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## Matt308 (Jan 13, 2007)

Simple pleasures. But can she do acrobatics?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 13, 2007)

with mk onboard it's any wonder she gets airborne at all


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## mkloby (Jan 13, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> with mk onboard it's any wonder she gets airborne at all



We usually have to drain some fuel so we can make it under our max T/O weight.



Matt308 said:


> Simple pleasures. But can she do acrobatics?



I'll tell you the NATOPS prohibited maneuvers, and you tell me if she can do "acrobatics."  

1. Abrupt control movements
2. Unusual G loading
3. 50* Angle of Bank in normal category (12,500lb gross wt)
4. 35* AOB in restricted category (13,500lb gross wt)
5. 30* pitch up or down
6. Intentional spins


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 13, 2007)

> 6. Intentional spins



there's not much you can do about the unintentional ones anyway is there? "holy sh!t we're not allowed to be doing this"


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## mkloby (Jan 13, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> there's not much you can do about the unintentional ones anyway is there? "holy sh!t we're not allowed to be doing this"



Oh lanc...

1. Power levers -- IDLE
2. Full rudder opposite turn needle
3. Rapid wheel fwd, neutral aileron
4. Neutralize rudder when rotation stops
5. Execute a smooth pullout


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 13, 2007)

ah- if you're not allowed to do it why have they given you an escape proceedure


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## mkloby (Jan 13, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> ah- if you're not allowed to do it why have they given you an escape proceedure



Intentional spins are prohibited. That's the Emergency Procedure if you happen to inadvertantly enter a spin.


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## HealzDevo (Jan 14, 2007)

Interesting. Those P-47 Thunderbolts and B-17 Flying Fortresses sure could take damage couldn't they?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 17, 2007)

as could the F4U, boy with some of the houses they passed off as aircraft it's a good thing you yanks had some beefy radials.........


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## Jank (Jan 17, 2007)

20mm damage









Some WWII cartoon humor





Look closely at the gaping hole in the wing


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## syscom3 (Jan 17, 2007)

That P47 cartoon was funny


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## Jank (Jan 17, 2007)

This is an incredible story. Kids, don't try this in your Mustang.

Article in Kalamazoo gazette









Left wing













Right wing


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## Jank (Jan 17, 2007)

More on the above post. (Note that it wasn't 88mm fire as reported by the AP but 40mm.) 

----------------------

A Mission to Remember
August 12th, 1944
By Kenneth Kik Richard Kik Jr.

My grandfather always said that "a good war story means that 
something went wrong" August 12th, 1944 was one of those days. 

As told by Richard Kik Jr. 395th Fighter Squadron.

We took off on a usual mission armor cover flight at the Falaise 
track. Down at the Falaise track it was hard fighting, a lot of anti-
aircraft fire, a lot of infantry, armor, trucks, a lot of everything. I went 
down on a strafing run and hit this truck Previous to that I heard a 
thump somewhere in the airplane and I didn’t realize what it was, but 
when I came off the strafing run my wingman, Chuck Rife said "have 
you got the water on?" I said "no, why?" Chuck said "you’re trailing 
smoke." He came up and looked around and said "it’s coming off 
the bottom of the engine." It Turned out a 20 mm knocked two or 
three cylinders off my engine. That Pratt Whitney never stopped. 
I’m telling you, those people deserve a medal for that engine, I’ve 
never seen one like it.

Our element leader, Captain Mazur said "well Rife, escort him 
home." So we started back across the line and as we got going 
along, Chuck caught a burst of anti-aircraft fire. Both of his wings 
were struck by 40mm rounds. The flak rounds exploded and pieces 
of metal entered his cockpit. The explosion damaged his 
instruments and shredded his parachute pack. So as we got across 
the line I told Chuck, "you better get ready to bail out." He said "I 
can’t, my parachute’s all tore up." I told Chuck you’ve got two live 
bombs on your wings, you’re not going to be able to belly land with 
those, can you drop them? He said "no, I can’t" and held up his 
bomb release, "cause here’s my bomb thing." It was a mess. He 
said "all my instruments are gone and I can’t put the gear down." So 
anyway, as we were going home and I’m talking to him all the time, 
telling him try to do this, try to do that. He finally worked it hard 
enough the handle, he said he had to take both legs and hold the 
stick over cause it kept wanting to roll. Finally he got the gear down 
manually. I said "okay, let’s just fly her in." Chuck said "I don’t have 
any instruments, I don’t have any idea what the speed is." I told him 
okay, I’ll tell you what, you fly on me, just stay right with me and we’ll 
get you down. So I kept the speed up pretty high and took him down 
to the runway. He made it down safely.
Then when I turned around to land it dawned on me I’m burning! I 
forgot about myself during this whole thing. The smoke’s rolling out 
now. So I whipped it around and landed, turned off the runway and 
the engine quit.

We made it! I jumped out of my plane and ran over to Chuck and 
helped him out of his damaged jug. Then I discovered that I also 
had two live bombs on I had forgot to drop. And one of them was 
hanging by the rear shackle, nose down. What happened was when 
I strafed that damn truck I was a little to low, Something had hit the 
nose fuse and I had a hanging armed bomb. They (the ground 
crew) were a little unhappy that I didn’t drop the bomb. Hell, I was 
happy to just be on the ground. There happened to be a whole 
bunch of AP reporters around that day, they write an article for the 
AP news.

Cliff Gamble stated that after Kik pulled Rife out of his plane he 
(Cliff) gave Kik a big hug and told him "Don't you ever do that again!"

Kik was awarded the Silver Star.

Charlie Rife was wounded in the lower back and spent a few days in 
the hospital.


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## R-2800 (Jan 17, 2007)

cool! glad to see the thread is up again


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 20, 2007)

it's often said you don't shoot down a P-47- you fill it with so much lead it's too heavy to fly anymore!


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## HealzDevo (Jan 21, 2007)

Cool photos and pictures that one. Amazing. I am sure that the Spanish Civil War 20mm Cannon mentioned could do it some serious damage if it hit.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 23, 2007)

depends where it hit, all aircraft have a weak spot, the P-47 is no different i believe her oil pump is very vunerable? something to do with the oil system anyway...........


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## HealzDevo (Jan 23, 2007)

Yes, but I am meaning in a straight armour hit on an aircraft that it would have done more damage being a higher velocity cannon than the usual 20mm. Anyone got any figures on this?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 25, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> depends where it hit, all aircraft have a weak spot, the P-47 is no different i believe her oil pump is very vunerable? something to do with the oil system anyway...........



The P-47 (Like many other Radials) had a "dry sump oil system." The oil sump was in a tank mounted on the firewall and within the system there was an oil cooler. Hoses brought oil from the tank into the engine accessory section and back to the oil sump via the oil cooler. A portion of the cooler was placed in the airstream so ram air going into a heat exchanger would cool the oil, the same principal as your car radiator, If anything could be the Achilles heel of a radial engine this would be it. 

Here's a Wright Cyclone, I couldn't find a goo picture of an R-2800 set up.






Aviation History


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 26, 2007)

thanks


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## HealzDevo (Jan 28, 2007)

I must remember to try to find a picture I have showing destroyed Japanese fighters and bombers at a Japanese Airbase. Also I think I have one of the same thing at a US Airbase...


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## bigZ (Jan 28, 2007)

Somewhere over Germany.


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## HealzDevo (Jan 28, 2007)

Wow, it looks like the nose of that B-17 Flying Fortress has just been blown to smithereens...


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## Matt308 (Jan 28, 2007)

You know I've seen that pic a thousand times. What is the story? Flak88 hit? Seems odd in that it appears the 17 flew for a period of time with the damage since there is no obvious smoke, debris trailing the airplane nor what appears to be significant deviation of attitude.


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## HealzDevo (Jan 28, 2007)

The flight controls wouldn't be there would it? I thought the flight controls were in the front bit, therefore it would be a bit hard to fly wouldn't it?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 29, 2007)

I read that after that picture was taken the aircraft fell out out of the sky...


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## R-2800 (Jan 29, 2007)

yes i've seen the pic 100's of times, I know for sure that it crashed, but not sure how it happened, but it was most likely flak


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## bigZ (Jan 29, 2007)

Yep I have seen it a 100 times but it still a startling picture and seems to sum up how dangerous these missions where. Full repect to guys who flew in them.

This is all the info I have on this iconic image.

'A B-17 Flying Fortress begins its death plunge over Germany right after taking a direct hit that sheared off its cockpit. Official U.S. Army Air Force Photo by Jerry Cole (8th Air Force, 390th Bombardment Group). From the Webmaster's collection.'


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## HealzDevo (Jan 30, 2007)

Anyone know whether any of the crew survived? It doesn't look like it from that shot...


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 31, 2007)

Captions I read on the photo said no one survived.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 31, 2007)




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## R-2800 (Jan 31, 2007)

that is a cool pic where did you find it?


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## Matt308 (Jan 31, 2007)

I've seen that one in numerous books.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 31, 2007)

not a clue, i've had it since before i was interested in aviation because i found it rather ammusing........


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## HealzDevo (Feb 6, 2007)

Well he certainly was flying low... Bet the mechanics weren't pleased about that one...


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## Steve Birdsall (Aug 31, 2011)

bigZ said:


> Yep I have seen it a 100 times but it still a startling picture and seems to sum up how dangerous these missions where. Full repect to guys who flew in them.
> 
> This is all the info I have on this iconic image.
> 
> 'A B-17 Flying Fortress begins its death plunge over Germany right after taking a direct hit that sheared off its cockpit. Official U.S. Army Air Force Photo by Jerry Cole (8th Air Force, 390th Bombardment Group). From the Webmaster's collection.'



It's a bit late, but I felt compelled to correct this. Ewald Swanson, the pilot of the B-17 in the "iconic" photo, was a contributor to _Claims To Fame - The B-17 Flying Fortress_, a book I wrote with Roger Freeman.

The basic facts are these: The photo was taken on 14 July 1944 and the B-17 is 42-32109, _Mizpah_, from the 483rd Bomb Group. 

The pilots were Lt Ewald Swanson and Lt Paul Berndt, the bombardier was Lt Kenneth Dudley and navigator Lt Joseph Henderson. _Mizpah_ was on the bomb run when a flak shell exploded right under her nose, instantly killing Henderson and Dudley. The rest of the crew were able to bail out and survived the war as prisoners.

Observers in other aircraft had been stunned by the sight of _Mizpah_ hanging in the air with the entire nose shot off. Sgt Robert Toombs, a waist gunner on Lt Bob Orton's B-17, had time to take three photos of the doomed aircraft (including the famous one) before it fell away.

The full story is told in the book I mentioned.

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## buffnut453 (Aug 31, 2011)

Amazing that the pilots survived. They must have done a fantastic job keeping her on an even keel long enough for the crew to get out!


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