# Why do the Swiss fly the F-18 Hornet//? any guesses?



## Jackson (Mar 9, 2007)

Swiss F18 Hornet AirPower in the Alps !! Page #5

Swiss F-18 Hornet , 4


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## Matt308 (Mar 10, 2007)

Uhh... good multipurpose airplane perhaps?

More capability than Mirage?

Better avionics/weapons interoperability than MiG/Sukhoi?

Greater historical track record than Rafale or Gripen?

Available now versus Typhoon?

Cheaper than F-15?

More capable multirole than F-16?

Not Chinese?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 10, 2007)

I dont know ask our resident Swiss F-18 pilot who is a member here. Or I could ask my soon to be Swiss Brother In Law who is also in the Swiss armed forces (part time whe he is not playing around with the Swiss Banking and Stock markets).

I would guess because it soots there purpose for what they need it to do.


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## Gnomey (Mar 10, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I dont know ask our resident Swiss F-18 pilot who is a member here. Or I could ask my soon to be Swiss Brother In Law who is also in the Swiss armed forces (part time whe he is not playing around with the Swiss Banking and Stock markets).
> 
> I would guess because it soots there purpose for what they need it to do.



Exactly. Why is it so surprising anyway? Just because everyone is flying F-16's doesn't mean those with a little more cash don't spend a little more to get a little (like the Swiss have done with the F-18)...


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## Jackson (Mar 10, 2007)

For steam catapult launch from hidden caves// obvious, but not intuitive..

Ya pick up odd bit's here in DC

I will get some links later.. they are easily found, but this is not well publicized.

Here is one I found interesting recently, that reminded me of the Swiss F-18

BBC NEWS | Programmes | From Our Own Correspondent | Swiss still braced for nuclear war

Oh yeah, the wings fold too, so they can store more of them in a smaller area.. those mountain dug outs are expensive by the Sq/m


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 10, 2007)

The hollowed out mountains have been there since WW2. I have been to some of them as I have a soon to be relative in the Swiss Army. They are all self sustaining bunkers. Every town has buildings with false walls that when opened contain a machine gun nest or a cannon of some sort. The moutains too have false walls that open up to reviel large cannons and machine guns. The whole country is bascially a fortress.

They were originaly built in WW2 to defend against a possible German attack.


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## Glider (Mar 10, 2007)

Add that it is more robust and they use short take off and landings than most of the alternatives. Its also multi role able to fight and bomb.

The mystery was why did they buy Mirages in the first place.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 11, 2007)

Felt sorry for the French...


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## HealzDevo (Mar 18, 2007)

Perhaps. Who knows? Perhaps the Swiss were worried that if they built their own it would be too complex and maintenance intensive...


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 18, 2007)

HealzDevo said:


> Perhaps. Who knows? Perhaps the Swiss were worried that if they built their own it would be too complex and maintenance intensive...


Built their own? With all due respect to the Swiss, the only thing they could afford to develop in a modern fighter like the F-18 is the cockpit clock...

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## Aggie08 (Mar 19, 2007)

But damned if that pilot wouldn't know the time down to the 1/10000th of a second!


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 19, 2007)

Yep!


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## Zipper730 (Apr 26, 2017)

Jackson said:


> For steam catapult launch from hidden caves// obvious, but not intuitive..


That's quite fascinating... I was figuring it had to do with operation out of short airfields and improvised roads.



> BBC NEWS | Programmes | From Our Own Correspondent | Swiss still braced for nuclear war


That's how you know what country really rules the world. The one that actually cares that much about it's people and develops the resources to protect them, rather than spending all their time doing stupid stuff.



DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Every town has buildings with false walls that when opened contain a machine gun nest or a cannon of some sort.


I'm amazed that's stayed a secret with almost everybody being in the military...



> The whole country is bascially a fortress.


Yeah, just because they eat chocolate and ski a lot doesn't mean they're not tough: They are one of the toughest nations on earth.



FLYBOYJ said:


> Built their own? With all due respect to the Swiss, the only thing they could afford to develop in a modern fighter like the F-18 is the cockpit clock...


First of all, they are a neutral power and hold the purse strings to most of the world's wealth: The Bank of Industrial Settlements is located there (Basel), and if you have the whole world dependent on your dough, they don't touch you. Even if one was stupid enough, people who own money know how to keep it safe (think about bank vaults).

Also, if one country postures to oppose you; you can just finance another country to counter-oppose them except for very rapid events (nuclear war).


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 29, 2017)

Zipper730 said:


> First of all, they are a neutral power and hold the purse strings to most of the world's wealth: The Bank of Industrial Settlements is located there (Basel), and if you have the whole world dependent on your dough, they don't touch you. Even if one was stupid enough, people who own money know how to keep it safe (think about bank vaults).


 And first of all they are is a bank and don't have the authority, ability or desire to use someone else's money to finance a combat aircraft that would take years to develop. SECOND they don't have the desire or the need to build an indigenous combat aircraft, they tried once and learned their lesson.

FFA P-16 - Wikipedia



Zipper730 said:


> Also, if one country postures to oppose you; you can just finance another country to counter-oppose them except for very rapid events (nuclear war).



And you think it's that easy especially in western "neutral" Europe? For members, that's what NATO is for.


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## pbehn (Apr 29, 2017)

The Swiss like the Swedish believe in armed neutrality, they are not pacifists, they will fight for their country, bu no one elses. That is a historically sensible position since they speak Italian French and German. Beautiful as it is, and I have driven a ca through from Milan to Moenchengladbach it would be a nightmare to invade. My journey used countless bridges and tunnels which I suspect they would deny to an invader, it is a mountain range.


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## swampyankee (Apr 30, 2017)

Why the F-18? They're decided it's the best aircraft for their needs.

There's also been quite a lot of nonsense written about the country, especially its gun laws. By the way , by what bizarre logic does one conclude that alpine skiing and eating doesn't require one to be tougher than, say, watching football and eating pork rinds?

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## Zipper730 (Apr 30, 2017)

FLYBOYJ said:


> And first of all they are is a bank


Yes, but remember the golden-rule: Them that's gots the gold makes the rules. 


> don't have the authority, ability or desire to use someone else's money to finance a combat aircraft that would take years to develop. SECOND they don't have the desire or the need to build an indigenous combat aircraft, they tried once and learned their lesson.


Actually they developed several designs, the EFW N.20 Aquillon, the FFA P-16, and the ALR Piranha. Regardless, they generally have been fine with purchasing foreign designs, which worked out okay for them.

IMHO, I would prefer to always buy local when it comes to arms industry as it's not good to be dependent on foreigners for your weapons, but it doesn't matter in their case because, they're a bank/nation in one. That's an insurance policy



pbehn said:


> The Swiss like the Swedish believe in armed neutrality, they are not pacifists, they will fight for their country, bu no one elses.


That's a pretty smart position to operate from. You don't get tangled up in alliances with other nations, and aggression basically requires loads of money, and without conquest you just waste it all doing nothing, and kill lots of people.


> Beautiful as it is, and I have driven a ca through from Milan to Moenchengladbach it would be a nightmare to invade. My journey used countless bridges and tunnels which I suspect they would deny to an invader, it is a mountain range.


Oh yeah, plus the whole population is armed, they can operate planes out of tunnels and land on roads if need be, they have the means to provide their whole population with protection from even nuclear bombardment, and most towns and cities have hidden walls where a machine-gunner or sniper could perch himself.

You'd have to have a death wish to even think of doing it. Plus, with the financial control they'd exert, they probably would be able to undermine your country economically, turn other nations against you, and their mercenaries and spies are probably quite remarkable.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 30, 2017)

Zipper730 said:


> Yes, but remember the golden-rule: Them that's gots the gold makes the rules.
> Actually they developed several designs, the EFW N.20 Aquillon, the FFA P-16, and the ALR Piranha. Regardless, they generally have been fine with purchasing foreign designs, which worked out okay for them.
> 
> IMHO, I would prefer to always buy local when it comes to arms industry as it's not good to be dependent on foreigners for your weapons, but it doesn't matter in their case because, they're a bank/nation in one. That's an insurance policy





The fact that they're "a bank" is irrelevant and somewhat silly, especially in this day and age where money could be moved at the stroke of a keyboard. They are not going to fiance an indigenous combat aircraft with someone else's money and even if threatened. They learned after the failure of the P-16 that they were better off buying foreign combat aircraft and in this day and age you just don't sh!t out a competitive combat aircraft even if you're a bank or have your capital building built of solid gold. The Swiss are good at keeping themselves armed to the teeth so if anyone tried to invade them it would be like sitting on a cactus. Swampyankee nailed it...

"There's also been quite a lot of nonsense written about the country."

BTW I once worked for SR Technics SR Technics | MRO Solutions | MRO Services so I know just a little about these folks!

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## pbehn (Apr 30, 2017)

Zipper730 said:


> IMHO, I would prefer to always buy local when it comes to arms industry as it's not good to be dependent on foreigners for your weapons, but it doesn't matter in their case because, they're a bank/nation in one. That's an insurance policy


Zipper you are special, what is "local" and what is "foreign" and what has being a "bank/nation" (whatever that is), got to do with it?



Zipper730 said:


> You'd have to have a death wish to even think of doing it. Plus, with the financial control they'd exert, they probably would be able to undermine your country economically, turn other nations against you, and their mercenaries and spies are probably quite remarkable.



There is no doubt Russia could overwhelm Switzerland if it bordered Russia but it doesnt, Germany could have overwhelmed Switzerland but Adolf would have to forget about invading France or Russia, during which time Germany would probably have been invaded by France or Russia. That is what armed neutrality is all about.


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## Zipper730 (May 9, 2017)

pbehn



> Zipper you are special, what is "local" and what is "foreign" and what has being a "bank/nation" (whatever that is), got to do with it?


In this case: Local means domestic; foreign doesn't require definition. A bank/nation basically means that the country is a bank and a nation in one, and if you control the money, you don't get invaded.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 9, 2017)

Zipper730 said:


> pbehn
> 
> In this case: Local means domestic; foreign doesn't require definition. A bank/nation basically means that the country is a bank and a nation in one, and if you control the money, you don't get invaded.



You do after Sergi the hacker moves your entire GNP with one keystroke!


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## Zipper730 (May 9, 2017)

FlyboyJ,

That's a different matter


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## gumbyk (May 9, 2017)

With the costs of developing fighters now, the line between 'domestic' and 'foreign' simply doesn't exist - look the where the F-35 is built.

BTW, I thought the Rothschild family controlled the worlds wealth??


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## pbehn (May 9, 2017)

Zipper730 said:


> pbehn
> 
> In this case: Local means domestic; foreign doesn't require definition. A bank/nation basically means that the country is a bank and a nation in one, and if you control the money, you don't get invaded.


Please discuss the P51, Mosquito and Lancaster in light of this, they all seem to get engines fuselage and otherparts from different continents.


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## Shortround6 (May 9, 2017)

gumbyk said:


> BTW, I thought the Rothschild family controlled the worlds wealth??



Nah, it's Scrooge McDuck.


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## Zipper730 (May 11, 2017)

gumbyk said:


> I thought the Rothschild family controlled the worlds wealth??


About half of it if I recall: They have some of their loot in the UK, some in France, probably some in Germany and Switzerland. I have no idea the exact percentages of which is where, but the Bank of Intenratioanl Settlements is in Basel, Switzerland, and it's the grand poobah of all banks.



pbehn said:


> Please discuss the P51, Mosquito and Lancaster in light of this, they all seem to get engines fuselage and otherparts from different continents.


The P-51, Mosquito and Lancaster got their engines from the UK and North America (USA definitely, possibly some from Canada).


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## pbehn (May 12, 2017)

Zipper730 said:


> The P-51, Mosquito and Lancaster got their engines from the UK and North America (USA definitely, possibly some from Canada).


Lancasters and Mosquitos were built on both sides of the Atlantic. Merlins were built on both sides of the Atlantic. Mosquitos used wood from the Americas regardless of where they were built. The P51 went into service with a British designed engine, a British designed gun sight and was fitted with a Macolm hood. There was no reason that the USA could not have designed all of their own stuff apart from the simple fact that there was a war going on. The same expediency applies to Switzerland. If it were to design its own aircraft they would probably be the most expensive in the world and still in testing as we speak.


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