# info on George Laven, 8th FS, 49th FG??



## wmlaven (Dec 31, 2006)

I'm looking for info on my uncle, George Laven, a P-38 ace and was happy to find this forum. Any info would be appreciated by me and my cousins (ie his kids).


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 31, 2006)

wmlaven said:


> I'm looking for info on my uncle, George Laven, a P-38 ace and was happy to find this forum. Any info would be appreciated by me and my cousins (ie his kids).


Wow! If your uncle is George Laven, originally from San Antonio Texas he is a very famous P-38 ace, he was with the 49th FG, 5th AF. He flew a P-38 called "itsy bitsy." Check out this link that shows "itsy bitsy II."

B-24 "Asterperious Special"

George Laven was one of the first to score kills in the P-38. He spent the early part of the war in the Aleutians where he scored 4 kills. Later he served in the South Pacific where he picked up his last kill making him an ace. Although he only had 5 kills he was considered one of the more experienced P-38 drivers in the 5th AF. He flew with some of the most famous and high scoring P-38 aces of WW2 - Thomas McGuire and Jerry Johnson to name a few. 

There is a book called "Peter Three Eight," which gives a very good perspective of P-38 aces. Your Uncle George has several pages written about him. One of his feats besides becoming an ace was flying his P-38 from the Aleutians to San Antonio Texas. By today's standards that's a long and treacherous trip.

I've attached a scan from the book "Peter Three Eight."

Are you in contact with him? Is he still alive? Anyway I hope this helps.

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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 31, 2006)

There is a company that makes a die cast model with your uncle's markings on it.

ITSY BITSY P-38

"Itsy Bitsy" has been used in many P-38 models and even a painting..

http://www.alaskool.org/projects/ak_military/wwii_slides/ItsyBitsy-76P38.jpg

Trumpeter 1/32 P-38 L-5-LO Lightning

LOCKHEED P-38 LIGHTNING

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## wmlaven (Dec 31, 2006)

Yup, that's my uncle Butz (his childhood nickname because as a baby he reponded when his parents said "butzy, butzy" -- sort of an antidote to his warbird escapades.)

When he flew to San Antonio he did a low pass over the field and rolled the plane -- my grandmother fainted on the spot. That's the story I heard from my dad. I heard many war stories from Butz as a child. He didn't visit often, but it was always interesting when he did. I remember, too, that he always had fast cars -- Jaguar XKE, DeLorean, Avanti -- and he once flipped a DeLorean at 100+ mph and walked away unscratched.

Thanks for all the info. I'll check out the book. He also has a diecast model of his F-104 Really George which was also a plastic model kit. I'll pass your response along to my cousin, ie his daughter.

Butz died in 1995. He had been McDonnel Douglass's advisor to Israel after his retirement from the AF, then left Israel and died not too long after that. My dad is dead, too, so I can't learn more from him, but I could ask his kids questions if you have any.

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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 31, 2006)

Glad to help - I did find info about his post war career, flying the F-100 out of George AFB and his F-104, but he will always be remembered as one of the early successful P-38 drivers. I worked for Lockheed for 10 years and actually worked in the building where they built P-38s so anything about the aircraft or those who flew them has always been of interest to me. There is also the P-38 association where many surviving P-38 drivers and enthusiast have reunions. You might want to check that out as well.

If you get any photos of your uncle and can post them here, please do!! Again, glad I could help!!!


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## wmlaven (Dec 31, 2006)

Thanks again. If you have a link to the P-38 association, please pass it along. I'll check with my cousins about photos to post. I once had one of him with his F-104, but lost it years ago. As I understand he was one of Lockheed's test pilots for awhile, maybe just on the P-38.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 31, 2006)

wmlaven said:


> Thanks again. If you have a link to the P-38 association, please pass it along. I'll check with my cousins about photos to post. I once had one of him with his F-104, but lost it years ago. As I understand he was one of Lockheed's test pilots for awhile, maybe just on the P-38.


I believe he did work for Lockheed for a while...


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 31, 2006)

Here's some info...
P-38 Lightning Web Site Links

BTW - sorry to hear of your uncle's passing. He was an inspirational figure for those of us who are aviation enthusiasts as well as aviators.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 31, 2006)

Here are more photos of your uncle...


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## wmlaven (Dec 31, 2006)

Thanks so much for those photos. Yup, that's my dad and my grandmother.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 31, 2006)

My pleasure, glad I could help.


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## tjlaven (Dec 5, 2007)

Hi, I'm an admirer of George Laven, too. Unable to establish any familial connections but we share a fairly uncommon surname so I suspect there's a link somewhere.

I made a skin for his P-38L which can be flown in the online air combat simulator "Aces High".

Here is a picture of the skin in flight in the game:





Its a pretty easy game to download and get started in, if you are familiar with flight sims.


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## drgondog (Dec 5, 2007)

Dr Frank Olynyk has a pretty good bio on Laven on page 396 of Stars and Bars which suumarizes his career, his scores in the 49th and his post WWII career through retirement.


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## tjlaven (Dec 7, 2007)

drgondog said:


> Dr Frank Olynyk has a pretty good bio on Laven on page 396 of Stars and Bars which suumarizes his career, his scores in the 49th and his post WWII career through retirement.



Could you post a link to that? I don't think I have a way to see it otherwise, and I'd like to learn when Laven left the 54th FS to go to the 49th FG.

I'd like to skin his P-38E for the game too, and the paint scheme of the squad's planes changed during their deployment (bars were added to the star insignia, red border surround in '43, 2-digit tail code added on top of rudder, squad art painted on the radiator housing on the booms, etc)

I'd like to know if Laven's personal plane, #76, Itsy Bitsy, would've gotten this treatment or had he already left for the 49th.

Thanks for your help!


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## drgondog (Dec 7, 2007)

tjlaven said:


> Could you post a link to that? I don't think I have a way to see it otherwise, and I'd like to learn when Laven left the 54th FS to go to the 49th FG.
> 
> I'd like to skin his P-38E for the game too, and the paint scheme of the squad's planes changed during their deployment (bars were added to the star insignia, red border surround in '43, 2-digit tail code added on top of rudder, squad art painted on the radiator housing on the booms, etc)
> 
> ...



Frank has not put his 668 page book online.

Laven went to 49th FG from 55th FG on 3 March 1945 - can't help with a/c details


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## tjlaven (Dec 8, 2007)

Oh thanks, I think that would be sufficient. Just wanted to be sure his P-38E, "Itsy Bitsy" would've been flown by him during the period when USAAF insignia was surrounded with the red border.

Incidentally, I believe he served with the 54th FS, 343rd FG, while in the Aleutians, and transferred to the 8th FS, 49th FG.

The 55th FG served in the ETO, I believe.

Thanks for your help!


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## drgondog (Dec 8, 2007)

tjlaven said:


> Oh thanks, I think that would be sufficient. Just wanted to be sure his P-38E, "Itsy Bitsy" would've been flown by him during the period when USAAF insignia was surrounded with the red border.
> 
> Incidentally, I believe he served with the 54th FS, 343rd FG, while in the Aleutians, and transferred to the 8th FS, 49th FG.
> 
> ...



you are correct - it was a typo.in Olynyk's book and I was braindead - so I do not know whether it was42, 56 0r 57th FS

He went from 49th FG to England in May 1942 to the 78th FG, then (I assume) to to 55th FG in July in Alaska. (Frank had written 55th FG/54th FS - there is no 55th FS in either the 54th or 55th FG - it is in the 20th FG another P-38 group in 8th AF))

Frank had the typo after the move from 78th FG. As the 55th was nearby to the 78th and in 8th AF, he may have crossed wires as aresult.

sorry for confusion

Bill


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## tjlaven (Jan 5, 2008)

Here is a skin I made of George's early P-38, when he was serving with the 54th FS in the Aleutians. The time frame is 1943; the shark-mouthed plane was flown by Lt Colin MacDougal. I added the lens flare effect, grain, and desaturated the image to try to make it look like a color photo from the period. Just thought I'd share.


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## Ranger (Jan 30, 2009)

George Laven served at Dow Field, Bangor, ME between 1947 and 1949 with the 14th Fighter Group. He may have been a squadron commander. They were the first Group in the Air Force to recieve the P-84B Thunder Jet. There are photos in archives at the USAF Museum showing Major Laven with his F-84B "Itsy Bitsy III". There were many other WWII Aces in the 14th at Dow, Ray Wetmore, Ray Littge, Jon Petrovich, Lewis B. Chick, Arvid Olson, etc. Other Notables were Loring Stetson, Clure Smith, William Samways, and many others. Our business was across the street from Dow 47-57 and one of our mechanics, Milton "Andy" Andrews served in the 14th at the time. He was sent to Muroc in 47 to attend mechanic school on the P-84 as there was no formal P-84B school at the time. He witnessed Chuck Yeager testing the X-1 at the time. Andy served as a F-80 Crew Chief from 50-53 in Korea with the 80th FBS "Headhunters".


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## evangilder (Jan 30, 2009)

Wow, talk about a forum success story!

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## Ranger (Feb 5, 2009)

If one wants more tidbits on Col Laven, there is a photos in the Squadron Signal F-84 in Action showing an F-84 with checkerboard markings in a unit in Germany that the Col commanded in the early 50s. 

I sort of am stuck on the 14th Fighter Group when it served in Bangor. 
Our business was across the street from the Main Gate, and the end of the runway about 400' to one side.
I listened to lots of hanger flying at our business from 1947 thru the 50s, my uncle, the proprietor was a C-47 Radio Operator in the 317th Troop Carrier Group (Jungle Skippers) Bong, Tommy Lynch, etc came up often. It was great hearing the stories first hand from young veterans with fresh memories years before they appeared in todays' history books. What was even greater was having an F-51 on final and seeing the pilot wave as he went over the fence. Kids today do not get the chance to see WWII and early Jet aircraft constantly coming and going all day long.


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## Phillywagner (Mar 8, 2009)

wmlaven said:


> I'm looking for info on my uncle, George Laven, a P-38 ace and was happy to find this forum. Any info would be appreciated by me and my cousins (ie his kids).



I happened to be looking for my dear friend...."Uncle George's daughter, Leslie", when I came upon this site searching for her Dad. I spent many hours in Col Laven's home at Clark AFB where he was Commander of the 405th Fighter Wing. This was in 1963-64. I find it strange as I was just a teenager visiting a friend. So reading all this about Leslie's Dad is amazing to me. I just remember all the fun Leslie and I had. 

I only visited Leslie a couple of times after she returned to the States and eventually I lost track of her. Partly because I moved so frequently. I last saw her in Mississippi where she was visiting her in-laws. I was living in Louisiana at the time. Gosh I am still in La. Makes me wonder if she is in Ms?

So if you happen to speak with her, let her know her dear friend and swimming buddy at Clark, Mary, would love to hear from her. 

Well guys sorry I interruped your board to place a personal note. I do know Col Laven was a special person. His daughter loved him dearly!

By the way, there is a picture of Col Laven in the Wagner High Yearbook. 1964 Thought all of you would enjoy seeing a picture of him during that period of time.


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## Odee Dillon (Jan 19, 2011)

I never tire of reading or hearing about the P-38 and its pilots. Arguably, the Lightning, not the Mustang was the best over all U.S. fighter of WW2 as it was there from the start to the end. 

Darn shame the majority of surviving planes were put to axe and torch after the war. What a loss that is to the rest of us aviation enthusiasts.



tjlaven said:


> Hi, I'm an admirer of George Laven, too. Unable to establish any familial connections but we share a fairly uncommon surname so I suspect there's a link somewhere.
> 
> I made a skin for his P-38L which can be flown in the online air combat simulator "Aces High".
> 
> ...



Heya TJ, that's one of the skins I used when flying in AH2. Great job you did on it, bud!


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## KTerrell (Nov 5, 2011)

I know this thread is older but just wanted to say that I just bought one of George Laven's old Deloreans. I was doing a search for the owners name and came across this thread. It still has the license plate Laven 7 on it. I am assuming its not the one that he rolled! From the paperwork in the car it looks like he traded in Delorean #6148 with 390 miles on it for this one #6163 in 1983. Great to see information on the original owner. I will think of him when I drive it.


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## TheRealMrEd (Aug 18, 2019)

I know that this is a very old thread, but something may be of interest Laven's Aircraft

If would love to be in touch with any of his descendants.

Rf


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