# Stolen Valor - Tuskegee Airmen



## muscogeemike (May 13, 2012)

In Tyler, TX, a man - Samuel M. Garrison Jr. - died in Nov 2011. For several years he was a very public local figure. The city even named a new VA Facility after him.

His notoriety was due entirely to his claim to have been a “Tuskegee Airman”. At various times he claimed to have been a P-38 pilot, to have been in many “dogfights” and to have “put 10 enemy planes out of commission”. He wore many different medals on his Red blazer along with both Cpt and Col rank insignia.

The public readily accepted his stories (as evidenced by their putting his name on the new VA facility) despite some voices questioning his claims. 

This week a local reporter published a long exposé disproving almost everything this man had claimed, and the city is “re-considering” his name on the VA building. It can’t even be definitely established that he was ever in the military let alone the “Tuskegee Airmen”.

All along people questioned Mr. Garrison’s claims. None of the units comprising the “Airmen” (99th Pursuit/Fighter Sq., the 332d Fighter Grp; and the 477th Bomb. Grp - which didn’t go overseas) flew P-38’s; no pilot of these units shot down 10 enemy aircraft; the different ranks he claimed; there was much confusion about the medals he wore, some that weren’t from that era. The Tuskegee Airmen, Inc. (the group that represents the “Airmen”) couldn’t verify his service. Yet the local people refused to hear anything but that he was a bonafide WWII hero.

There is speculation that Mr. Garrison suffered from dementia and may well have believed his tales. 
That may be true but I think that the local people are using this as an excuse to explain their culpability. 

Mr. Garrison did a huge disservice to the real Tuskegee Airmen, to WWII Vets and to all vets. People (especially media reporters) should stop taking our (Vets) “war stories” at face value, many (maybe all) of us embellish our service at times, it is human nature. After telling these “tall tales”, over and over, all too often we begin to believe them ourselves. 

I have seen and heard reports for years where it is obvious, to anyone who is at all familiar with the subject, that the reporter did no research and had just taken the vets story as he told it. This failure continues the publics’ beliefs in many historical myths.


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## Njaco (May 13, 2012)

The reporters failure to do research? I think its atrocious that whoever has the authority to name VA buildings (and I'm guessing that they would have to be experienced with the military in some way) couldn't do the research! Amazing.


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## futuredogfight (May 13, 2012)

Wow, just, just wow. What a jerk!


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## evangilder (May 13, 2012)

Ugh, another one. And I agree, Chris, the VA should be able to verify an individual's service before allowing a name to go on it. I wouldn't feel deserving of that honor in any way, shape or form. It's shameful that some people have to live their lives telling people other people's actions and claiming them their own.


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## GrauGeist (May 13, 2012)

To save face, Perhaps the Tyler VA should rename the facility to honor all of the red-tails...it'll make the VA look generous (and rightly so, the Red-Tails should be) and allow them to save face for honoring an imposter atthe same time...

Just a thought


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## muscogeemike (May 13, 2012)

I feel that another factor is in play with this story. Mr. Garrison was black, if any reporter was to question his credentials he/she would fear the uproar from the strong black community in the area. This is the culture we, in the US, live in. Especially since our current President was elected. 

Mr. Garrison has not only done great disservice to the real “Tuskegee Airmen” but to the black community as well. Their credibility is now in question and I don’t think they 
realize it.


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## evangilder (May 13, 2012)

It could be that, but often, the respect of the elders comes into play. We had a guy down in Orange County here named Roland Sperry who claimed to be a Flying Tiger, shooting down Japanese Zeros, etc. He even had a book published that was allegedly non-fiction. A lot of people bought it, hook, line and sinker. These days, reporters are far too eager to file a story and don't ask questions. Sad.


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## parsifal (May 13, 2012)

Most of the real vets I have ever had the honour to talk with are most reluctant to talk about their real exploits, let alone make up ones for other people. And most airmen dont boast about "putting ten aircraft out of commission"

True or not, this guy was not walking the higher path by saying what he was saying.


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## evangilder (May 13, 2012)

Indeed. Spend nough time with some of these guys and it's easier to sort the wheat from the chaff.


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## tyrodtom (May 13, 2012)

The name of the place is the Watkins-Logan-Garrison Veterans Home, the first two men received the Medal of Honor.
I'm not going to blame this on politics, that's too easy. Somebody screwed up, big time.


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## evangilder (May 13, 2012)

Agreed, not political, just merely fact checking.


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## Njaco (May 13, 2012)

> Mr. Garrison was black, if any reporter was to question his credentials he/she would fear the uproar from the strong black community in the area. This is the culture we, in the US, live in. Especially since our current President was elected.



MLK is rolling over in his grave. I'll not comment anymore for fear I may get political.


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## bobbysocks (May 15, 2012)

back in the 80s and 90s i had a store and sold firearms out if it. i was licensed and the whole 9 yards. i was never into hunting so my inventory was always military style stuff and pistols. with the time being so close the the 'Nam era it seemed that everyone who came in to browse and fondle the guns were all former airborne ranger, green beret, SF working with MACV, SOG, or some super secret program. i knew all of these stories were BS ( except for a few ) and just let them ramble. the worse one was this guy buying a pistol...he told me how he was in such and such unit and when chasing the VC had to jump into Laos...when i got his info from his drivers license he was 2 years younger than me!!! and i was too young for Nam. some people feel the need to make themselves important and impress people...unfortunately its at the expense and reputation of the good people whose experiences they steal.


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## muscogeemike (May 15, 2012)

evangilder said:


> It could be that, but often, the respect of the elders comes into play. We had a guy down in Orange County here named Roland Sperry who claimed to be a Flying Tiger, shooting down Japanese Zeros, etc. He even had a book published that was allegedly non-fiction. A lot of people bought it, hook, line and sinker. These days, reporters are far too eager to file a story and don't ask questions. Sad.



I had the same experience in Mena AR. I was getting my hair cut and commented on a picture of a C-46 on the wall. The barber told me he was a Tech. Sgt with the Flying Tigers and he was Gen. Chennault’s personal pilot! He was not happy when I questioned him.


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## muscogeemike (May 15, 2012)

parsifal said:


> Most of the real vets I have ever had the honour to talk with are most reluctant to talk about their real exploits, let alone make up ones for other people. And most airmen dont boast about "putting ten aircraft out of commission"
> 
> True or not, this guy was not walking the higher path by saying what he was saying.



I agree, in my experience the guys who do the most talking - did the least. In VN the vast majority of service men did not see combat yet most guys you talk to will claim to have “seen action”. I have seen reports that as many as 1 in every 3 men who claim VN service were not there.


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## muscogeemike (May 15, 2012)

Njaco said:


> MLK is rolling over in his grave. I'll not comment anymore for fear I may get political.



Could this go towards proving my point? Instead of objectively addressing the issue of reverse discrimination Njaco implies my comment is politically (perhaps racially?) motivated.


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## ccheese (May 15, 2012)

muscogeemike said:


> Could this go towards proving my point? Instead of objectively addressing the issue of reverse discrimination Njaco implies my comment is politically (perhaps racially?) motivated.



Knowing Chris (njaco) personally, I do not believe (by making the comment about MLK) that he was implying anything, politically or racially. IMHO he did not want to comment further for fear of going political.

Charles


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## muscogeemike (May 15, 2012)

Cool.


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## Njaco (May 15, 2012)

Correct Charles. I was actually commenting about my own post and no reflection on anyone else. I just didn't want to go further into all the intracies of racism today. Just keeping my cool. Sorry Mike if I wasn't so clear.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 15, 2012)

Njaco said:


> Correct Charles. I was actually commenting about my own post ad no reflection on anyone else. I just didn't want to go further into all the intracies of racism today. Just keeping my cool. Sorry Mike if I wasn't so clear.



Don't worry I share the same feelings. 

The problem however is that this sort of thing happens whenever you question anything about the Tuskegee Airmen. Try and explain to some people that the tail of them never losing a bomber is just a myth and not true. People have been called some pretty terrible things for that, even on this forum right here.


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## A4K (May 16, 2012)

Met alot of people who love blowing their own trumpet, very often for completely see through (ie, BS) or souped-up tales - a psych would probably say to make up for an inferiority complex.
As Metallica put it, 'the empty can rattles the most'...


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## muscogeemike (May 16, 2012)

A4K said:


> Met alot of people who love blowing their own trumpet, very often for completely see through (ie, BS) or souped-up tales - a psych would probably say to make up for an inferiority complex.
> As Metallica put it, 'the empty can rattles the most'...



The movie “Red Tails” exacerbated this problem - a lot of “wannabes” tried to get in on the action. I spoke with a gentleman from LA today regarding my original post, who says he is an “Airmen” historian, and he agrees that people like Mr. Garrison detract from the glory of the real “Tuskegee Airmen”.


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## evangilder (May 17, 2012)

Any person who lays claim to anything they didn't do, especially in military operations, detracts from the real folks who were actually part of the operations, not just the Tuskegee Airmen. Being an idiot doesn't have any specifics (age, race, color, creed, etc etc etc).


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## A4K (May 17, 2012)

evangilder said:


> Any person who lays claim to anything they didn't do, especially in military operations, detracts from the real folks who were actually part of the operations, not just the Tuskegee Airmen. Being an idiot doesn't have any specifics (age, race, color, creed, etc etc etc).



Exactly, Eric.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 17, 2012)

Agreed, and people who do such things really ring my bell. I could punch them in the face.


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## muscogeemike (Jul 28, 2012)

Update: this week the powers that be announced they will not be putting Mr. Garrison’s name on the building.


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## Njaco (Jul 28, 2012)

muscogeemike said:


> Update: this week the powers that be announced they will not be putting Mr. Garrison’s name on the building.


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## vikingBerserker (Jul 28, 2012)

Excellent, though it should have been a no brainer.


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## Wayne Little (Jul 29, 2012)

vikingBerserker said:


> Excellent, though it should have been a no brainer.



Seems that way don't it!


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## [SC] Arachnicus (Aug 5, 2012)

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't is possible to obtain almost all records of those who served? I'm pretty sure that it does not take long to verify if someone was or was not in the military.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 5, 2012)

Anyone who served has a DD214. Over time however records can be lost. 

I know I keep lots of copies of mine.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 5, 2012)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Anyone who served has a DD214. Over time however records can be lost.
> 
> I know I keep lots of copies of mine.



Some reservists don't get DD214s. I had a "Letter of Separation" and an honorable discharge certificate from the USNR. This played hell when I attempted to get a VA loan because some of the bureaucrats at the VA don't know this. I had one guy tell me that reservists weren't eligible for VA benefits!


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## JoeB (Aug 8, 2012)

[SC] Arachnicus;925018 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't is possible to obtain almost all records of those who served? I'm pretty sure that it does not take long to verify if someone was or was not in the military.


A fire at the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis in 1973 destroyed the personnel records for 80% of Army (which would include USAAF) personnel discharged between 1912 and 1960. There was no complete duplicate set of those files anywhere else.

However, if somebody claimed to be a decorated pilot in a USAAF combat unit his name would highly likely show up in surviving operational records of the unit, various dispatches and files of the numbered AF in question (15th in that case), files related to high decorations if he claimed to have been awarded them, and so forth. And as mentioned in the article, the man said obviously wrong things like the 332nd FG flying the P-38. 

It seems it was easy enough to determine this guy was not telling the truth once anyone seriously looked into it, but I don't think there's any quick foolproof way in general to say someone is lying about Army/AAF service in that period.

I don't want to make it political or racial either more than it has to be, except politics and race *is* part of people's perception of history, not something totally separate from history, much as we might like it to be. And that's nothing new. Just the particular popular biases or popularly 'correct' views or attitudes vary with particular societies and times. Since the cultural/political chasm opened up in American society over the Vietnam War, IME relatively moderate liberals, which emcompasses most 'mainstream' journalists, are wary of being painted as 'anti-military dirty long hair hippy' types by sharply questioning veterans, especially of 'good wars', and then racial sensitivity obviously factors in wrt Tuskegee Airmen. The bigger story of the TA's to many people is the racial history of a US Army which hadn't wanted blacks in relatively prestigious role slike that, and hadn't allowed it up till then. So, IMO it's hopeless to try to separate the Tuskegee Airmen story from race in many people's minds, much as I agree in an ideal world it should have zero bearing on stuff like which German a/c they really downed or which bombers under their escort were really shot down.

Joe


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## Thorlifter (Aug 8, 2012)

Just saw this thread so I'm getting in late, but regarding the statement from MuscogeeMike about "the people" don't want to hear anything about it other than he was a hero, doesn't surprise me at all. 

If your from Texas (I've lived in Texas my whole life - 46 years) and you know about Tyler (been within a 1.5 hour drive of Tyler for 35 years) and know about the racial makeup of that city, this nails that type of attitude perfectly. Enough said on my part.

Glad to hear they will not be putting his name on the building.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 8, 2012)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Some reservists don't get DD214s. I had a "Letter of Separation" and an honorable discharge certificate from the USNR. This played hell when I attempted to get a VA loan because some of the bureaucrats at the VA don't know this. I had one guy tell me that reservists weren't eligible for VA benefits!



Interesting. I did not know that. I thought that all that served, received a DD214 when they separated. I guess it only applies to those that were Active Duty.

I know I received one original copy that is signed in ink. I made tons of copies of it then, and only give out copies. Which reminds me, I still have not heard back from the VA about my Veterans License Plates that I ordered. It has been about 3 weeks now.


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## Rogi (Aug 8, 2012)

Just shows how misinformed people are. I'm shocked at how it wasn't discovered during his lifetime. 

I wonder if he had a Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Diamonds with Glitter streamers in the stash of medals, that he pulled out of his last victim's plane, a Japanese Airman flying for the for the Germans in his Fokker Triplane. Even us reguler folk can make up a story! The main thing is if people beleive it or not, As long as the media backs something up usually people will beleive it hook, line and sinker without checking any facts, I doubt some kids know what a FW-190 is and think Focke Wulf is some sexual Kama Sutra Move.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 8, 2012)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Interesting. I did not know that. I thought that all that served, received a DD214 when they separated. I guess it only applies to those that were Active Duty.
> 
> I know I received one original copy that is signed in ink. I made tons of copies of it then, and only give out copies. Which reminds me, I still have not heard back from the VA about my Veterans License Plates that I ordered. It has been about 3 weeks now.


To make matters worse, my discharge certificate was signed by an O-6, "C.M. Saylor"!!! I thought it was a joke but the dude was real!


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## Matt308 (Aug 10, 2012)




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## renrich (Aug 17, 2012)

I served in a Texas National Guard unit, went on active duty for six months in 1959, came back and served for two years of drills monthly and two weeks summer camp and then was called up for active duty in 1961-62. Was discharged in 65, received an honorable discharge from the Army of the United States but received no DD214.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 17, 2012)

Did they not have DD214's back then? Nowadays you don't sign out of the military without one. 

Finally get my Veterans plates tomorrow. About time...


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## renrich (Aug 18, 2012)

As far as I know I never saw or ppssessed a DD214. That was a long time ago though.


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## wheelsup_cavu (Aug 18, 2012)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Did they not have DD214's back then? Nowadays you don't sign out of the military without one.
> 
> Finally get my Veterans plates tomorrow. About time...


My father served in the US Marine Corps in the early 1960's, Cuban Missile Crisis era, and he received DD214 discharge papers so it is definitely not something new.


Edit:
Looks like DD214's were instituted in 1950.
Source: About Military Service Records and Official Military Personnel Files (OMPFs, DD Form 214


> DD Form 214, Discharge Papers and Separation Documents
> 
> A Report of Separation is generally issued when a service member performs active duty or at least 90 consecutive days of active duty training. The Report of Separation contains information normally needed to verify military service for benefits, retirement, employment, and membership in veterans' organizations. Information shown on the Report of Separation may include the service member's:
> 
> ...




Wheels


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