# ww2 help



## Alecras234 (Sep 7, 2018)

Hi my name’s Ash, im 40 years of age from north wales. I need help. I’ll explain about myself before I get into what I need help with. I’m disabled, I suffered head injury when I was younger due to a road traffic accident which left me disabled and in a wheelchair. I went to Chester few weeks ago and met my mate there, I went to the model shop as I like having a go at building ww2 aircraft models. I bought an airfix FokeWolf 190, my mate Rob gave a lot of info about the plane as he knows a lot about ww2, something I didn’t know. I asked him what area of ww2 does he know abit about, he replied he knows a lot a ww2 European Theatre. I was thinking about what he said about ww2 European theatre, that I’m interested in ww2 aircraft which is something i’d like to learn about but european theatre is something different that I’d like to explore. Because of my head injury I find information difficult to grasp, I was searching world war 2 europe but the information wasn’t sinking in. Can you suggest how I can just get the broad outline of ww2 europe? I can easily remember dates.


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## Wurger (Sep 7, 2018)

Please check the link below.. and read all from the top to the bottom.

World War II - Wikipedia

and also the one...

Aviation in World War II - Wikipedia

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## Wurger (Sep 7, 2018)

And here is a site with interesting maps to watch when you click the small icons on the left of each title there..

Department of History - WWII European Theater


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 7, 2018)

Welcome aboard and good luck!


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## buffnut453 (Sep 7, 2018)

Welcome to the family, Ash. Hope we can help answer your questions.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 7, 2018)

The Focke-Wulf Fw190 was a solid fighter produced by Germany and you should have a great deal of enjoyment assembling it.
It was used during the war in Europe from 1941 until 1945, being one of Germany's primary fighters as well as serving with Hungary, who was one of several nations aligned with Germany.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 7, 2018)

Welcome to our digital home away from home. We are a dysfunctional lot here, but we try our best.

Please feel free to read through the forum, there is a ton of knowledge here, and a ton of very knowledgeable people. Feel free to ask as many questions as you like. The members here love to share their knowledge. 

Just don't stare at Jan (Lucky13). He might get a little excited.


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## michael rauls (Sep 7, 2018)

Welcome Ash. Lots of great people here with lots of good information. Heck I think I've learned more from the guys here in 6 months than 10 years previous.
If I may make a suggestion. I think it would be helpful to get a book on the general history of ww2. It will help put the aviation history in context and I believe make it easier to understand whats going on and why.
One good one is "The second world war, a complete history" I just checked over on Amazon and a used copy can be had for 8 bucks. 
Good to have you aboard.


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## buffnut453 (Sep 8, 2018)

Ash,

I do have a dumb question for you. You say that it's sometimes difficult for you to grasp information. Is that primarily the written word or do you also have problems when looking at photos, maps and diagrams? What about verbal information (eg audio books)? I only ask because we might be able to point you in a good direction if there's a particular way of receiving information that works better for you.

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## Alecras234 (Sep 13, 2018)

buffnut453 said:


> Ash,
> 
> I do have a dumb question for you. You say that it's sometimes difficult for you to grasp information. Is that primarily the written word or do you also have problems when looking at photos, maps and diagrams? What about verbal information (eg audio books)? I only ask because we might be able to point you in a good direction if there's a particular way of receiving information that works better for you.


i can remember images and short facts better than reading long text. For example, it was suggested to me that a friend of mine when she studied from books, she put sentences into questions and answers, that way she could remember information. I like history so i put sentences from my book into questions and to this day i remember the dates, names of kings and where they reigned.


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## buffnut453 (Sep 13, 2018)

Maybe a book like this might be a good place to start. It's specifically about aces that flew the Fw 190 on the Western Front (ie over Europe) but it contains a lot of captioned photos and diagrams of colour schemes. 







I know it's not a general history of WW2 in Europe...but it's perhaps a start. 

There's also a rather old "Pictorial History of the Second World War" which might have some useful info. It's a 10-volume set which might be a bit pricy to buy in one go (Amazon has a full set for $100) but individual volumes cost as little as $5 on second-hand book websites like Abebooks.

Hope this is of some use.


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## Alecras234 (Sep 13, 2018)

buffnut453 said:


> Maybe a book like this might be a good place to start. It's specifically about aces that flew the Fw 190 on the Western Front (ie over Europe) but it contains a lot of captioned photos and diagrams of colour schemes.
> 
> View attachment 509484
> 
> ...


im reading chapter one, im lost, it's confusing and i don't understand it.


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## Wurger (Sep 13, 2018)

What has made you confused?


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## Alecras234 (Sep 13, 2018)

for weeks and moths past, with clenched fists and gritted teeth, you have had to endure the outrages and provocations. Who has had to endure? Theres a lot of info


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## Wurger (Sep 13, 2018)

Outrages and provocations ? now I'm confused. Could you explain please?


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## Alecras234 (Sep 13, 2018)

that was a part from the book, the whole chapter is confusing, what is it going on about?


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## Wurger (Sep 13, 2018)

The first chapter is a kind of an intro. The author of the book wanted to shade light on the period of time when the Allied pilots met the first time the new Nazi German fighter called Focke Wulf Fw-190. It is also an introduction to the history of one of the best German fighter . Therefore you may find the 1937 year for instance because it's the date when the designer of the Fw 190, Kurt Tank started the project.


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## Alecras234 (Sep 13, 2018)

Wurger said:


> The first chapter is a kind of an intro. The author of the book wanted to shade light on the period of time when the Allied pilots met the new Nazi German fighter called Focke Wulf Fw-190. It is also an introduction to the history of tone of the best German fighter . Therefore you may find the 1937 year for instance because it's the date when the designer of the Fw 190, Kurt Tank started the project.


so the osprey books are good to start with?


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## buffnut453 (Sep 13, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> so the osprey books are good to start with?



Since you mentioned the Fw190, I thought the Osprey book might be useful because it has plenty of photos and aircraft side views with short text captions. I thought the combination of images and short text descriptions would be useful for you.


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## Wurger (Sep 13, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> so the osprey books are good to start with?



Yes these are. But I have to tell you that the series of books may be too detailed for you. Each book of the series contains quite a lot of details but for particilar topic. In other words these aren't the source of the general knowledge in the sense. But these are very detailed small parts of the entire WW2 Aviation History To get the general knowledge you have to collect all of the books. As a result it may be too much for you. I hope I explained that well.

However if you don't undestand anything from the books, please feel free to ask. I'm sure you can find the help here.


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## Alecras234 (Sep 21, 2018)

Hi im trying to learn European theatre of WW2 by reading things off this site - European Theater of World War II I have typed out Questions and answers to try and remember facts. My mate who knows about WW2 told me to learn when the outbreak of ww2 was and where it started which i know, then read about Dunkirk and what happened. War started in 1939 with Germany attacking Poland, they used the Blitzkrieg tactic, then 2 days later Britain and France declared war on Germany. That's what i know so far. I have read a little on the Battle of France, I don't really understand it, was the battle of France the battle of Belgium and Holland too? So the Germans attacked France through the Ardennes forest, then what, attacked Belgium? How did the british get to Dunkirk beach?


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## Wurger (Sep 21, 2018)

Ash,

The German attack on the France ( Fall Gelb) started with the invasion on the Holland, Belgium Luxembourg. Earlier , Hitler had invaded the Denmark and Norway to save the north direction against the possible British counterattack from there. So the attack on Denmark, Norway and then on Holland and Belgium is the German operation against the France. Germans wanted to get better positions for their attack on the France but without defeating of the small countries, the Wehrmacht ( the name of the German Army ) couldn't reach the French territory. If you have a look at a map of the Europe you will find why.
The main , first part of the German Army attacked the Holland, Belgium while the second part attacked the Luxembourg continuing attacking through the Ardennas Forest in order to bottle up the combined forces of the French Army and the BEF in the Belgium and the northern France. After breaking through the French defence at the Sedan town ( the town is located in front of the Ardennas Forest but on the French territory ) Germans turned up the north pushing the fighting and retreating from the Belgium, French Army and the BEF towards the French coast at the English Channel. In the way the BAF got the Dunkirk shores. I have posted two small maps showing the German plan in your another thread. Please check.

Well.. to answer your questions in an easy way ...

Was the battle of France the battle of Belgium and Holland too?
Yes it was generally.

So the Germans attacked France through the Ardennes forest, then what, attacked Belgium?
No. Germans didn't. They attacked the Belgium and trough the Ardennas Forest at the same time.

How did the british get to Dunkirk beach?
Due to the lost battle in Belgium and because of the German attack through the Ardennas Forest with the threat of bottling up and cutting off suplies the BAF had to retreat from the Belgium to the Central France. But the German advancing was so quick, the BAF was forced to move towards the Dunkirk area only where it was closed by Germans finally.

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## Alecras234 (Oct 6, 2018)

Hi im Ash, im 40 from North Wales. I want to learn abit about World War 2 European Theater. I have been looking at this website European Theater of World War II but i don't know where to start learning and where to go from there. There's so much to read.


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## fubar57 (Oct 6, 2018)




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## Wurger (Oct 6, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> Hi im Ash, im 40 from North Wales. I want to learn abit about World War 2 European Theater. I have been looking at this website European Theater of World War II but i don't know where to start learning and where to go from there. There's so much to read.




Ash,
You have already posted that same request here. So I merged both of them. No reason for keeping double post.


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## Wurger (Oct 6, 2018)

You may try to the site... BBC - History: World War Two 

Especially the page. BBC - History - World War Two: Summary Outline of Key Events

If you click any of the left side menu you will get more info. Just try...


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## Milosh (Oct 6, 2018)

I am sure I gave you this link before, HyperWar: World War II on the World Wide Web



Alecras234 said:


> Hi im Ash, im 40 from North Wales. I want to learn abit about World War 2 European Theater. I have been looking at this website European Theater of World War II but i don't know where to start learning and where to go from there. There's so much to read.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 8, 2018)

I'm sorry i'm not understanding the Winter war. The book says, Stalin, knowing that his country's pact with Germany would not last indefinitely, sought a buffer zone against any future German attack. By June 1940 he had bullied Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania into co-operation, swiftly followed by full annexation. Finland, however, resisted, preferring to fight that submit to Soviet demands. Firstly, What does sought a buffer zone mean? is it a country between two hostile country's? What does bullied Estonia, latvia and lithuania into co-operation mean? Could you explain in simple terms so i understand?


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## Wurger (Oct 8, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> IWhat does sought a buffer zone mean? is it a country between two hostile country's? What does bullied Estonia, latvia and lithuania into co-operation mean? Could you explain in simple terms so i understand?



"sought the buffer zone" means that Stalin moved the borderline of the USSR as much to the West as possible by invading and grabbing other countries.

"is it a country between two hostile country's?" ... It can be considered in that way Just it's a piece of land.

"What does bullied Estonia, latvia and lithuania into co-operation mean? ... The countries there were forced to support Stalin in both military and economic way..


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## Alecras234 (Oct 9, 2018)

I want to explain about myself. I am 40 years old, I was run down by a car when I was 6 which has left me disabled and have head injury. I find it difficult to learn things because of my head injury, and find understanding things frustrating because I can't understand things straight away. I wasn't taught anything at school and I missed a lot of schooling because of my accident. I am now trying to learn about world war 2 . I bought a book called history in an hour of ww2. It covers all the battles in order and I understand the first chapter about invasion of poland but chapter 2 and 4 I don't understand. Can you help me please?


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## michael rauls (Oct 9, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> I want to explain about myself. I am 40 years old, I was run down by a car when I was 6 which has left me disabled and have head injury. I find it difficult to learn things because of my head injury, and find understanding things frustrating because I can't understand things straight away. I wasn't taught anything at school and I missed a lot of schooling because of my accident. I am now trying to learn about world war 2 . I bought a book called history in an hour of ww2. It covers all the battles in order and I understand the first chapter about invasion of poland but chapter 2 and 4 I don't understand. Can you help me please?


There are guys here who know alot more than I but if you could give me the titles of the chapters you seek more understanding about I would gladly do my best to explain what I can.


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## Wurger (Oct 9, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> I want to explain about myself. I am 40 years old, I was run down by a car when I was 6 which has left me disabled and have head injury. I find it difficult to learn things because of my head injury, and find understanding things frustrating because I can't understand things straight away. I wasn't taught anything at school and I missed a lot of schooling because of my accident. I am now trying to learn about world war 2 . I bought a book called history in an hour of ww2. It covers all the battles in order and I understand the first chapter about invasion of poland but chapter 2 and 4 I don't understand. Can you help me please?



Ash, you already told us about that and we keep it in mind.
If there is something unclear , just come here and ask.
We will try to explain all you can't understand.

But not all of us could read the book you bought.
So... please write what is unclear or what you don't understand.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 9, 2018)

I was told that i should write down the things i want to remember from a book and i want to learn from my book called History in an hour, World war two, by Rupert Colley. The first chapter is all about German invasion of Poland. It says, The Nazi non-aggression pact, signed on 23 August 1939, allowed Hitler to pursue his ambitions in the east without Russian interference; ambitions that included the destruction of Poland and subjugation of its people. The attack on Poland began at 4:45 on the morning of 1 September 1939. From that im told to pick out what i want to remember but the way it's worded in places is weird like, allowed to pursue ambitions in the east without Russian interference. Ambitions in the east what's that, is it where Hitler felt it was alright to invade eastern Europe? A non-aggression pact is where 2 countries agree not to fight each other? I want to remember when it was, where he invaded, the tactic used which is on the next page, Blitzkrieg, what would you say are important things to remember?


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## Wurger (Oct 9, 2018)

> Ambitions in the east what's that...?



Hitler always wanted to grab lands in the east of the Europe. Especially these in Russia.. But there was Poland between the Germany and Russia. Therefore he invaded Poland firstly and the the USSR.



> A non-aggression pact is where 2 countries agree not to fight each other?



Yes it is.



> what would you say are important things to remember?



All that you said. When, where , the tactic. You may add who ... and names of tanks, planes and ships


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## michael rauls (Oct 9, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> I was told that i should write down the things i want to remember from a book and i want to learn from my book called History in an hour, World war two, by Rupert Colley. The first chapter is all about German invasion of Poland. It says, The Nazi non-aggression pact, signed on 23 August 1939, allowed Hitler to pursue his ambitions in the east without Russian interference; ambitions that included the destruction of Poland and subjugation of its people. The attack on Poland began at 4:45 on the morning of 1 September 1939. From that im told to pick out what i want to remember but the way it's worded in places is weird like, allowed to pursue ambitions in the east without Russian interference. Ambitions in the east what's that, is it where Hitler felt it was alright to invade eastern Europe? A non-aggression pact is where 2 countries agree not to fight each other? I want to remember when it was, where he invaded, the tactic used which is on the next page, Blitzkrieg, what would you say are important things to remember?


I'd say Wurger pretty much nailed it.
I would add that the method of invasion, Blitzkrieg, was important although I have read this was not the term actually used by the Wehrmacht( German army). Blitzkrieg translates to lightning war( my German is limited but I'm pretty sure of that one). Blitzkrieg, put simply, was the use of fast mechanized units to punch through enemy lines and then encircle.
them.
Also another important occuance I often see omited when discussing the invasion of Poland is that while Germany invaded from the West The Soviet Union invaded from the east after the two countries agreed to devide Poland in the German-Soviet frontier treaty.

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## Alecras234 (Oct 10, 2018)

For my notes where it says in my book, 
The Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact, signed on 23 August 1939, allowed Hitler to pursue his ambitions in the east without fear of Russian interference; shall i just put, A non-aggression pact is where 2 countries agree not to fight each other so Hitler felt he could grab lands. Can that be worded better?


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## Wurger (Oct 10, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> A non-aggression pact is where 2 countries agree not to fight each other so Hitler felt he could grab lands.



The statment is OK generally.



Alecras234 said:


> A non-aggression pact is where 2 countries agree not to fight each other



Yes it is.



Alecras234 said:


> ... so Hitler felt he could grab lands...



In the case It was a secret part of the pact. Signing that treaty Hitler and Stalin agreed to attack Poland together.



Alecras234 said:


> .. Can that be worded better?



I would stay with the sentence.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 10, 2018)

In the case It was a secret part of the pact. Signing that treaty Hitler and Stalin agreed to attack Poland together.

So the statment is correct generally. what? So what do i put? what i have put down so far is, Germany invaded Poland 1, September 1939, German soviet non aggression pact - signed 1939. i want to say what the Nazi soviet aggression pact was ?


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## Wurger (Oct 10, 2018)

The German-Soviet non aggression pact signed in 1939. 
It let Hitler and Stalin invade Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland and Romania.

BTW.. the treaty is also known as the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact So you may use either the name or the one above.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 10, 2018)

how did it let them invade those countries? i thought it it meant no fighting, non aggression


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## Wurger (Oct 10, 2018)

It let invade these countries because neither USSR nor Nazi Germany disturbed in that each other.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 10, 2018)

what about this? Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact, A treaty made by Germany and the Soviet Union in 1939 that opened the way for both nations to invade Poland


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## swampyankee (Oct 10, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> I'm sorry i'm not understanding the Winter war. The book says, Stalin, knowing that his country's pact with Germany would not last indefinitely, sought a buffer zone against any future German attack. By June 1940 he had bullied Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania into co-operation, swiftly followed by full annexation. Finland, however, resisted, preferring to fight that submit to Soviet demands. Firstly, What does sought a buffer zone mean? is it a country between two hostile country's? What does bullied Estonia, latvia and lithuania into co-operation mean? Could you explain in simple terms so i understand?



The Winter War and the invasions of the Baltic states were part of Stalin's reconquest of Imperial Russian territories lost after the end of WWI. Occasionally, I've seen people use the "inequities" of the Treaty of Versailles as justification for Hitler's invasion of Poland; Stalin and, earlier, Lenin's invasions of Georgia, Ukraine, and eastern Poland were equally unjustified.


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## Wurger (Oct 10, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> what about this? Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact, A treaty made by Germany and the Soviet Union in 1939 that opened the way for both nations to invade Poland



It's OK. Sounds good.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 11, 2018)

hi how can i put what is a buffer zone? was the buffer zone friendly countries around Russia to make sure that Russia could never be invaded again.


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## Wurger (Oct 11, 2018)

Not necessarily the buffer zone countries were friendly. But these stayed under Stalin's control. Also Stalin couldn't be ensured that USSR would never be attacked. But for sure the buffor zone could give him a time for getting a better deffence.

To answer your question ... it may be written... 

The buffer zone is an area for slowing down an advance of enemy.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 11, 2018)

thank you for helping me, how can i put this into a short fact? 
The Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact, signed on 23 August 1939, allowed Hitler to pursue his ambitions in the east without fear of Russian interference; ambitions that included the destruction of Poland and the subjugation of its people.

.


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## Wurger (Oct 11, 2018)

I think the best way can be to divide it into two sentences.

The Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact, was signed on 23 August 1939.
The pact allowed Hitler and Stalin to grab Poland and the subjugation of its people.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 11, 2018)

why did the pact allow Hitler to take Poland? Surely Hitler invaded lands anyway.


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## michael rauls (Oct 11, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> how did it let them invade those countries? i thought it it meant no fighting, non aggression


The treaty was between The Soviet Union and Germany only. That meant that Hitler( Germany) could invade other countries without threat of interference from the Soviets.


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## Wurger (Oct 11, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> why did the pact allow Hitler to take Poland? Surely Hitler invaded lands anyway.



By signing of the pact Hitler made sure that he wouldn't have to fight against Soviets. Just Hitler and Stalin agreed to divide Poland between themself. Earlier Hitler made certain that neither France nor Great Britain would help Poland. So, being sure that there wouldn't be any attack from the West and East on the Germany, he could start the invasion.

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## Alecras234 (Oct 16, 2018)

Hi this is my list so far of things to remember from my book. Invasion of Poland 1 September 1939, Nazi-Soviet non aggression pact signed 23, August 1939, Nazi-Soviet non aggression pact let Hitler and Stalin invade Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania. Russia invaded Poland from the east - 17 September 1939, Poland surrendered and agreed on partition - 24 September 1939. Are these ok to know or can a few be removed or are there other things i should know? I want to add more like how many tanks were used, how many soldiers, shall i use wikipedia to find out?


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## michael rauls (Oct 16, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> Hi this is my list so far of things to remember from my book. Invasion of Poland 1 September 1939, Nazi-Soviet non aggression pact signed 23, August 1939, Nazi-Soviet non aggression pact let Hitler and Stalin invade Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania. Russia invaded Poland from the east - 17 September 1939, Poland surrendered and agreed on partition - 24 September 1939. Are these ok to know or can a few be removed or are there other things i should know? I want to add more like how many tanks were used, how many soldiers, shall i use wikipedia to find out?


It sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on the main events pertaining to the invasion of Poland. I would add the method of warfare used by the Wehrmacht( German army) often referred to as Blitzkrieg or lightning war is important to the mechanics of both the conflict in Poland and much of the rest of the war in Europe. Other than that I think you've got the big stuff.


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## Wurger (Oct 16, 2018)

It is fine partialy. But Poland has never surrendered and never agreed on any partition. What a nonsense. On 28th September 1939 but not on the 24th , there was signed by Germans and Soviets treaty about the borderline and frendship between Germany and USSR. The last battle of the September Campaign in Poland was on the 6th October 1939. After that battle the entire territory of Poland was occupied both by Nazi Germany and Russia. They divided Poland into two parts according the treaty.

The sentence "Poland surrendered and agreed on partition - 24 September 1939" is false then. It has to be removed.


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## michael rauls (Oct 16, 2018)

Wurger said:


> It is fine partialy. But Poland has never surrendered and never agreed on any partition. What a nonsense. On 28th September 1939 but not on the 24th , there was signed by Germans and Soviets treaty about the borderline and frendship between Germany and USSR. The last battle of the September Campaign in Poland was on the 6th October 1939. After that battle the entire territory of Poland was occupied both by Nazi Germany and Russia.


Good catch. I know better but for some reason it just didn't click in my feable brain when I read it.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 16, 2018)

Where would i get info on what tanks/aircraft were used and how many? Should i include that information aswel? my book says, 
Crushed between two totalitarian heavyweights, Poland crumbled, and on the twenty-seventh, Warsaw surrendered. Agreeing on the partition of Poland, the Germans and Russians then set about the total subjugation of the defeated population. How can i word that into a shorter sentence?


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## Wurger (Oct 16, 2018)

> are there other things i should know?



The last battle on the 6th October 1939 at Kock ended the September Campaign. But there were groups of Polish army still fighting against Germans. For instance, Major Henryk Dobrzański nicked "Hubal" commanding of the Separated Unit of Polish Army , kept struggling against Nazi until his death on 30th April 1940 
He can be called the first partisan of the WW2.


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## Wurger (Oct 16, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> ... my book says,
> Crushed between two totalitarian heavyweights, Poland crumbled, and on the twenty-seventh, Warsaw surrendered. Agreeing on the partition of Poland, the Germans and Russians then set about the total subjugation of the defeated population. How can i word that into a shorter sentence?



28 September 1939 - Germans and Soviets signed a treaty agreeing on the partition of Poland..



Alecras234 said:


> Where would i get info on what tanks/aircraft were used and how many? Should i include that information as wel?



The Wikipedia can be the source for the info. If you want you may include the info too.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 16, 2018)

The book i've got on WW2 is called History in an hour World War 2, the facts i've got now are, 
Nazi-Soviet Non Aggression Pact, signed 23, August 1939
The Pact let Hitler and Stalin invade Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia Finland and Romania
Germany invaded Poland – 1, September 1939
Britain and France declared war on Germany - 3, September 1939
German tactic used against Poland – Blitzkrieg
Russia invades Eastern Poland – 17, September 1939
28 September 1939 - Germans and Soviets signed a treaty agreeing on the partition of Poland.

Is there a better book where i can get facts? my book says Warsaw surrendered on 24 September 1939 and agreed on Poland partition. That's wrong yes? So where or how do i get reliable information? What other info shall i have, tanks, battles?


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## Wurger (Oct 16, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> Nazi-Soviet Non Aggression Pact, signed 23, August 1939
> The Pact let Hitler and Stalin invade Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia Finland and Romania
> Germany invaded Poland – 1, September 1939
> Britain and France declared war on Germany - 3, September 1939
> ...



All above is correct. 





Alecras234 said:


> ...Is there a better book where i can get facts?



For sure there are better books but it is quite difficult to say which ones. Also these may be quite "heavy" for you to read all the info there.



Alecras234 said:


> my book says Warsaw surrendered on 24 September 1939 and agreed on Poland partition. That's wrong yes?



Yes that's wrong. The Warsaw ( the city but not Poland the country ) capitulated on 27 September 1939. Poland never agreed on any partition.



Alecras234 said:


> ... So where or how do i get reliable information?



Check on a couple of sources using the Googles. Just type what you are looking for.. eg. September Campaign in Poland 1939.



Alecras234 said:


> ... What other info shall i have, tanks, battles?



It's up to you only. If you can keep easy the records in you mind you may add the data.


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## michael rauls (Oct 16, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> The book i've got on WW2 is called History in an hour World War 2, the facts i've got now are,
> Nazi-Soviet Non Aggression Pact, signed 23, August 1939
> The Pact let Hitler and Stalin invade Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia Finland and Romania
> Germany invaded Poland – 1, September 1939
> ...


A little advice(which may or may not be right for you) on how to approach this. I wouldn't try so hard to memorize every time, date, and fact right from the get go. Rather read through your book and perhaps Wikipedia and see what grabs you, what your naturally interested in and follow that wherever it leads. Some people love aviation like most here, some other aspects but find what you like. It will make this enjoyable and not a chore. Hope this helps.

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## Alecras234 (Oct 16, 2018)

im reading this Invasion of Poland (1939) - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia So i could add the battle of Mokra was one of the first battles of the Polish invasion? Was the partition of Poland agreed on on the 28 September? Is this site good to get information from?


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## Wurger (Oct 16, 2018)

Yes Ash.. the site can be.

And yes the Battle at Mokra was one of the first battle of the Polish Campaign. The another one called the Battle at Bzura on September 9 was the important battle as well.

Yes the the partition of Poland was agreed on the 28 September. But it was the agreement between the Nazi Germany and Russia only. Poland never agreed on that.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 16, 2018)

I have a book called Schoolboy to Spitfire, it's about RJ Mitchell, i enjoyed reading it but then i became interested in ww2 so havent read Rj mitchell's book for a few weeks, shall i go back to the book and forget ww2 for now?


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## Wurger (Oct 16, 2018)

Why? In my opinion you don't need to give up one book for the another one.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 17, 2018)

is the ww2 book im reading lying like it says that Warsaw agreed on partition of Poland on 24 September,


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## Wurger (Oct 17, 2018)

Yes ... it is lying. Unless you read someting wrong. Could you copy the info from the book and post here?

BTW .. how Warsaw could agree on the partition of Poland if there wasn't the Polish Government there. So who could sign a such agreement ?


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## Alecras234 (Oct 17, 2018)

Here is the whole chapter. The Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact , signed on 23 August 1939, allowed Hitler to pursue his ambitions in the east without fear of Russian interference; ambitions that included the destruction of Poland and the subjugation of its people. The attack on Poland began at 4.45 on the morning of Friday, 1. The Germans, not intending to be bogged down again in a war of trenches and stalemate, swept aside all resistance in a lightning war of blitzkrieg, using technological military advances, co-ordinated attacks and abrasive speed. Following up the rapid advances, German forces engaged in brutality, executions and merciless aggression against the civilian population. Neville Chamberlain, who had been Britain’s Conservative prime minister since 1937, and who five months earlier had guaranteed the Poles assistance if attacked, dutifully declared war on Germany on 3 September followed, six hours later, by the French. The British contribution to the Polish cause was not with arms, nor soldiers, nor aid, but with leaflets – by the million, dropped by plane over Germany, urging the population to stand up against Hitler and the war. On 17 September, as the German war machine advanced its way towards Warsaw, the Soviet Union as secretly agreed in the Non-Aggression Pact, attacked from the east. Crushed between two totalitarian heavyweights, Poland crumbled, and on the twenty-seventh, Warsaw surrendered. Agreeing on the partition of Poland, the Germans and Russians then set about the total subjugation of the defeated population. Villages were razed, inhabitants massacred, the Polish identity eradicated; and in towns, such as Lodz , Jews were herded into ghettos before eventual transportation to the death camps. With his first objective achieved, Hitler visited Warsaw on 5 October, and casting a satisfied eye over the devastated capital, declared: ‘this is how I deal with any European city’.


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## Wurger (Oct 17, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> ... Crushed between two totalitarian heavyweights, Poland crumbled, and on the twenty-seventh, Warsaw surrendered. *Agreeing on the partition of Poland, the Germans and Russians then set about the total subjugation of the defeated population.* .



I see that now The book is almost correct . I'm afraid you undestood the sentence with the bold letters wrong. The 'Agreeing on the partition " refers to the Germans and Russians but not to Poland or Warsaw..

However the date of the capitulation of Warsaw is incorrect though . Please let me explain... the idea and decission of surrending was made on 26th September by Polish defenders who were commanded by Gen Czuma. They contacted with Germans and on 27th September the Polish and German delegations met together in order to get the agreement on the conditions of the surrender. The talks lasted up to the morning of the next day although the agreement was already reached on the 27th. On the 28th September at 13PM , Gen Kutrzeba ( Poland ) and Gen Blaskowitz ( Germany ) signed the surrender note of the Warsaw and the date is the correct one. The *28th September 1939.*


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## Alecras234 (Oct 17, 2018)

Do i carry on with this book or do I get a reliable source instead, if so what please?


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## Wurger (Oct 17, 2018)

I don't think you have to give up the book. If you like it just read. If you have any doubts or you can't understand any please come here and ask.
Also you may check on the dates there using the Google.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 17, 2018)

ok that sounds good. I've started chapter 2, Winter War. 
Stalin, knowing that his country’s pact with Germany would not last indefinitely, sought a buffer zone against any future German attack. By June 1940, he had bullied Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania into co-operation, swiftly followed by full annexation. Finland, however, resisted, preferring to fight than submit to Soviet demands.

Does that mean that Stalin invaded Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and used those countries to protect Russia from a German attack? 
was soon disabused, underestimating Finnish bravery, tenacity and expertise at guerrilla warfare. Finnish soldiers during the Soviet– Finnish War, February 1940 Coupled with the Soviet Union’s lack of military proficiency, following Stalin’s military purge of

What does that mean, is it that the Russians weren't prepared for cold weather in Finland?


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## Wurger (Oct 17, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> Does that mean that Stalin invaded Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and used those countries to protect Russia from a German attack?



Yes it does.




Alecras234 said:


> What does that mean, is it that the Russians weren't prepared for cold weather in Finland?



To a certain extent. Before the Winter War started, Stalin had run a purge and killed his the best commanders and many well-experienced officers. Many others were arrested and sent to camps called "gulags". These were the concentration camps actually. As a result the Red Army had to start a war without experienced commanders at all levels of the commanding system. So if we take that into consideration , the answer is yes, Russians weren't ready for the war against Finland. However the soviet military stuff like tanks, planes etc..was of quite good quality and numerous enough to defeat Finns..


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## Alecras234 (Oct 18, 2018)

My book is very basic, what you're explaining to me is going over my head which makes it sound more complicated. Here is part of the first chapter of the Soviet-Finnish war. Stalin, knowing that his country’s pact with Germany would not last indefinitely, sought a buffer zone against any future German attack. By June 1940, he had bullied Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania into co-operation, swiftly followed by full annexation. Finland, however, resisted, preferring to fight than submit to Soviet demands. The 105-day ‘Winter War’ started with Russia’s attack on Finland on 30 November 1939. Russia, expecting an easy victory as the Germans had had over the Poles,


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## Wurger (Oct 18, 2018)

I understand you Ash. But please notice that the explanation seems to make all complicated only. Unfortunately it is often quite difficult to understand the History of WW2 without the all additional info.Just in the way are writen all books about the WW2. 
If I were you I would write that in the way...

Finns refused to submit to Soviet demands
Russians attacked Finland on 30 November 1939.
Soviets expected an easy victory.
Due to Stalin's purge the Red Army wasn't ready for the Winter War.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 19, 2018)

ok ive been thinking that maybe if i start reading about ww2 aircraft it might be easier to understand. I've seen a modeller on youtube, he says that Osprey books are good reference books but i'm not sure, what do you think, are they good to learn from?. It sounded like he had some good knowledge, he said that the spitfires that were fighting in France had the black underside of the wing, i thought that was interesting.


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## swampyankee (Oct 19, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> Do i carry on with this book or do I get a reliable source instead, if so what please?



Unless the book is absolute balderdash (these exist; _e.g._, any book that says the Holocaust didn't happen), it has some value as a source, however WW2 was a conflict that lasted years, with major battles on three continents and every ocean, with combatants from every continent, and social and political ramifications for every nation, including non-belligerents. One book -- or a thousand -- won't cover everything. 

There are some very good historians writing about WW2. Just remember that it's impossible to get even an executive summary from one book.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 19, 2018)

I found this book on amazon, it tells a story of events that happened in a simple way. it also has at the end of each chapter, chapter summery. Could you read the sample pages please and tell me what yo think? Amazon product


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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2018)

These Osprey books are nice although some mistakes can be found. But generally they can be a good source to learn from. However I would like to make a focus on that these present the History patially. Each part concerns one topic only.. eg.. fights in the North Africa. As a result there is a lot of details that can be understandable if you don't know the general situation there..

For instance the info that Spitfires in France had the black undersides... it is quite general statement. The black underside was on the port ( left ) side only. Of the black colour could be either the entire port half of a plane or just the port wing only. It is beacuse of the camouflage used by RAF at that time. It was called "Night and White" or :Night.White and Aluminium" Here examples..










And here a Spitfire captured in France 1940...









The pic source: Asisbiz Social App


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## Alecras234 (Oct 19, 2018)

I found this book on amazon, it tells a story of events that happened in a simple way. it also has at the end of each chapter, chapter summery. Could you read the sample pages please and tell me what yo think? The book is called World War II: A Concise Guide from Beginning to End


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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2018)

Looking good. More or less it is correct judging by what I read.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 19, 2018)

What does this mean please? Does it mean that to stop Russia helping out Poland with the fighting, a non aggression pact was signed between Germany and Russia? To prevent the Soviet Union from coming to Poland’s aid, Hitler convinced Stalin to sign a non-aggression pact: in exchange for not aiding Poland, Hitler agreed to give half the conquered country to Stalin. The pact was signed August 23, 1939—


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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2018)

I wouldn't say Hitler was afraid of Stalin's help for Poland. Poland would never agree for any aid from Soviet Union. He was unsure about what Russia could do when he would invade Poland. By signing of the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact Hitler made it sure he wouldn't have to fight also against Russia while invading Poland.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 19, 2018)

So was it to stop Russia from helping Poland fight Germany? Sorry I'm trying to understand, once I understand I've got it.


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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2018)

No Ash, it wasn't. Stalin didn't want to help Poalnd in any way. And Poland would have never accepted a such help even if Stalin would offer it.. Hitler wanted to avoid fighting against Russia.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 19, 2018)

So what this mean? state. To prevent the Soviet Union from coming to Poland’s aid, Hitler convinced Stalin to sign a non-aggression pact: in exchange for not aiding Poland, Hitler agreed to give half the conquered country to Stalin. The pact was signed August 23, 1939—one week before the invasion.


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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> To prevent the Soviet Union from coming to Poland’s aid,..



Just the statement above is incorrect I'm afraid.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 19, 2018)

shall i just read and learn from this site or wikipedia? 
European Theater of World War II 
World War II - Wikipedia


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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2018)

You may read and learn from both sides certainly. However you may find there pieces of info that may be opposed. But is is good to have two different sources that can be compared. So it depends on you only if you use them .

I have had a look at them and both sound good. However I found this on using the first link..

" Poland was created at the end of World War I out of territory that *had traditionally been part *of the German and Austria-Hungarian empire's "

The "traditionally" may suggest the teritories always belonged to these countries. But in fact, most of them had belonged to the Polish Kingdom before Poland was partitioned by Germany, Austria-Hungary and Russia. Just they grabbed the lands.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 19, 2018)

is this correct? At its heart, the pact called for neither country to attack or fight against the other. As well, it set out expectations that neither country would ally against the other and help other countries wage war against the other. Finally, it divided parts of eastern and northern Europe into spheres of influence for both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. So Germany and Russia agreed not to fight each other, is that what the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was about?


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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2018)

Yes it is exactly what it was about.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 19, 2018)

so just for me to remember, nazi-soviet non aggression pact is an agreement/promise that Germany and Russia aren't to fight each other?


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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2018)

Correct.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 20, 2018)

From looking at this site, World War II what should i read and learn, anything in particular? Yesterday i learnt that the Nazi-German non aggression pact was an agreement between Germany and Russia not to fight each other.


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## Wurger (Oct 20, 2018)

All that you consider useful for you and worth to keep in mind.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 20, 2018)

What would you look at


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## Wurger (Oct 20, 2018)

I'm more interested in the military stuff both in its contruction and painting than in who, where and why. So this would be mostly I would pay my attention to. As I told you , it's up to you what kind of knowledge you want to get and remember about.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 20, 2018)

If i wanted to look at military on this site, would that be under battles?


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## Wurger (Oct 20, 2018)

Yes it might but also under the stuff name, for example: Spitfire , Bf 109E etc..


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## Alecras234 (Oct 20, 2018)

Or tank names, was a panzer a German tank?


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## Wurger (Oct 20, 2018)

Not a pander but a Panther or the Panzerkampfwagen V Panther also marked as SdKfz 171. And yes that's the German tank.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 20, 2018)

Im glad i found this its interesting. Panzer IV - Wikipedia whats a medium tank, is it between a small tank and an armoured tank?


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## Wurger (Oct 20, 2018)

It can be considered in the way. The main factor for getting a category is the tank weight and thickness of armour plates though


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## swampyankee (Oct 20, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> So was it to stop Russia from helping Poland fight Germany? Sorry I'm trying to understand, once I understand I've got it.



Both Germany (Prussia, more accurately) and Russia had ruled a partitioned Poland from the end of The Napoleonic Wars; both Hitler and Stalin behaved as though their respective countries had a right to Poland and both rulers seemed to believe that the existence of a Polish state was anathema. Both wanted to destroy Poland; neither would defend it or help it defend itself. The non-aggression pact wasn't to keep the other from helping Poland; it was so that the two sides didn't need to worry about each invading each other's conquered territories or territory.

Poland's history including multiple invasions from both west and east; its destruction and conquest were goals of the Romanoffs, the Hohenzollerns, and the Habsburgs. Hitler and Stalin were just following in their predecessors footsteps. I don't think the Bourbons were big fans, either, but they weren't next door.

Neither Hitler nor Stalin would have helped Poland against the other. A vaguely similar contemporary example is what's happening in Syria: several countries and non-state actors are supporting the anti-Assad forces; many of these countries and non-state actors loathe each other, but all loathe Assad's existence enough so they'll attack Assad's regime. Later, they'll get the knives out and start killing each other in earnest.

More support for my opinion that international relations are just those between competing criminal gangs writ large.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 20, 2018)

can someone explain 1918 Anschluss? i know Hitler wanted to unite Austria with Germany but it was forbidden in the Treaty of Versailles, but why did Hitler want to annex Austria? How did he achieve it, did he achieve it?


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## Wurger (Oct 20, 2018)

Yes Hitler did it. The Anschluss was on 12-13 March 1938. Why he did it? First of all, he was born in Austria so he was an Austrian and always wanted to unit the country. Secondly , the Nazi Germany after five years of his government needed money. The Anschluss gave Hitler a possibility of grabbing Austrain financial reserve.

How it happened?

In 1936 Germany and Italy signed pact of friendship. In the way the alliance Berlin-Rome started. In the mid of 1936 there started negotiations between the Germany and Austria and in July of the year was signed the agreement. According to the deal Austria made a commitment to release from prison the Nazi prisoners and make a couple of them, members of the Austrian Government. In return Hitler guaranteed the independence of Austria.

In 1937 the relationsh between Austria and Germany got worse. On the 12th February 1938 the Austrain Chancellor Schuschnigg came to Berghof, Hitler's mantions in the Bawarian Alps.. He was sure there would be another negotiations but instead of this Hitler gave him an ultimatum demanding passing of the power to the Austrain Nazi. Willy-nilly he agreed getting Hitler's confirmation of the agreement signed in 1936. The new agreement caused the political crisis in Austria.

On the 20th February 1938 Hilter deliverd a speech in the Reichstag saying that Germany wouldn't tolerate any presecution of the ten milion of Germans who were living out of the Germany especially in Austria and Czechoslovakia.

On the 24the February 1938 , the Chancellor Schuschnigg made a speech and said that Austria wasn't going to agree on Hitler's demands and would follow the pact of 1936. It coused discontent of Nazi Germans and Nazi Austrians. For the reason the Austrain Chancellor announced the plebiscite on the 13th March 1938 in order to get everybody's opinion if the Austria should stay independent country or not. 
In the same time, Schuschnigg was looking for supporting and started talks with the Social Democrat Party and other political ones there. Unfortunately he failed.
Hitler got angry with the plebiscite and on the 11th March. ordered Schuschnigg to abandon the idea of the voting and pass the entire power to the Austrain Nazi Party threatening with intervening of the Wehrmacht. Having no help from anybody Schuschnigg resigned. But it didn't help.
In the early morning on the 12th March 1938 The German Army entered the Austria being saluted quite enthusiastically. The union with the Third Reich was accomplished. On the same day Hitler came to Austria.

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## Alecras234 (Oct 21, 2018)

My mate emailed me a WW2 timeline of events and he suggested that i look up an event i find interesting. I have been looking up Anschluss of Austria and Treaty of Munich on Wikipedia. The timelines tells me what each event is about, so i don't need to look up Anschluss or War on Poland on Wikipedia because the description is there, what do you think? Should i just remember what it says in the description rather than go in detail somewhere else? Hee is the timeline World War Two Timeline - History


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## Wurger (Oct 21, 2018)

You may use the site. No problem.


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## michael rauls (Oct 21, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> My mate emailed me a WW2 timeline of events and he suggested that i look up an event i find interesting. I have been looking up Anschluss of Austria and Treaty of Munich on Wikipedia. The timelines tells me what each event is about, so i don't need to look up Anschluss or War on Poland on Wikipedia because the description is there, what do you think? Should i just remember what it says in the description rather than go in detail somewhere else? Hee is the timeline World War Two Timeline - History


In my opinion your friend gave you good advice. I wouldn't worry so much about how to organize everything. Just pick something off the timeline you find interesting and start reading on that and just let it take you wherever it leads.
It will lead to something else you find interesting and you can follow that wherever that leads and on and on.
In time all the pieces will fall into place and become more clear naturally.
Just my 2 cents worth.

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## Alecras234 (Oct 22, 2018)

For the Anschluss, shall i just know when it happened and why? When was 12 March 1938, Why it happened for 2 reasons, Firstly Hitler wanted to unite Germany with Austria and secondly Austria had more money than Germany so because of Anschluss Hitler was able to grab Austria's money. Is that right or have i worded it wrong?


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## Wurger (Oct 22, 2018)

Sounds good and you may stay with the info.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 23, 2018)

Do you know of a ww2 book I could learn from?


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## Wurger (Oct 23, 2018)

There is a lot of them but it is quite difficult to recommend one of them. The problem is that these contain lot of information that may cause you can have a hard time with understanding. You need a quite specific kind of books. I think the one recommended by Airframes in your another thread can be good.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 23, 2018)

im trying to get the background to WW2, What is Armistice, is it a temporary stop of fighting between while the treaty of versailles was being drawn up? Is there a shorter definition than that of what Armistice is?


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## Wurger (Oct 23, 2018)

Generally the armistice means the same the ceasefire does. It means that all fighting is stopped temporary untill a treaty is signed or the belligerents ( sides involved in the conflict ) resume fighting..

In other words... The Armistice is a time pause at fighting.


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## pbehn (Oct 23, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> For the Anschluss, shall i just know when it happened and why? When was 12 March 1938,  Why it happened for 2 reasons, Firstly Hitler wanted to unite Germany with Austria and secondly Austria had more money than Germany so because of Anschluss Hitler was able to grab Austria's money. Is that right or have i worded it wrong?


 Also Hitler was born in Austria (Austro Hungary at the time) He moved to and fought for Germany in WW1. .


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## Alecras234 (Oct 24, 2018)

is this site ok to learn from? World War I for Kids: End of WWI and Post War
can i learn from this site aswel? Treaty of Versailles

im reading about the treaty of versailles, the kids website says there were people from 4 nations that signed the treaty, but the other website says there were 3 nations that signed. What's right?

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## Wurger (Oct 24, 2018)

Actually there was more countires that signed that pact. There were : the Great Britain, France, the USA, Poland, Italy, Japan and Jugoslavia. However the main part of the Treaty of Versailles was signed by the USA, Great Britain, France, Italy, Japan and Germany. . 5+1=6


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## Alecras234 (Oct 24, 2018)

What site is correct? 5he kids site talks about the big four that signed. The other site says there was 3 that signed


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## Wurger (Oct 24, 2018)

To be honest both of the sites are wrong. It is because of the way the authors interpreted the process of signing of Treaty of Versaille.
The main reason for that is they confuse the Conference at the Paris with signing of the pact. There were 27 countries that participated in the Conference. Among them there were 5 world powers: The Great Britain, France, the USA, Italy and Japan. The countries became the Supreme Council also called the Council Five. However the Italy was too weak participant and Japan wasn't interested in the European matter at all. As a result the three world powers, GB, France and the USA became the most important decision makers. Sometimes the Italy is added to the Council and therefore the "Big Four" name can be found. The Conference ended with signing not of one pact only but of a couple of them. So there was more countries involved. So as I mentioned it above the main part of the treaty was signed by the GB, France, USA, Italy, Japan and Germany. This gives the six countries.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 24, 2018)

What website would you say is gòod to learn from please


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## Wurger (Oct 24, 2018)

You may try to use the Wikipedia. But the World War I for Kids: End of WWI and Post War also seems to be fine too.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 24, 2018)

your last post said, To be honest both of the sites are wrong. Now you're saying ww1 for kids is correct. im confused


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## Wurger (Oct 24, 2018)

Yes. The site for kids seems to be much closer to the correct info. It is quite logical that the threaty couldn't be signed by the three countires only becuase it would mean that neither Italy nor Germany didn't do that. The site for kids mentions the Big Four what is much closer to the number of countries that signed the main treaty. So IMHO it is better to know that there were four countries plus Germany that signed the pact than stay convinced that there were three only.. right?


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## Alecras234 (Oct 24, 2018)

the Hundred Days Offensive on August 8th, is that all correct? and the battles along the Hindenburg line? World War I for Kids: End of WWI and Post War


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## Wurger (Oct 24, 2018)

Yes that's correct. The Hundred Days Offensive started on the 8th August 1918 and lasted to the 11th Novemeber 1918. The main battles of the offensive was the Battle at Amiens and Somma. Because of the Allied offensive Gemmans had to retred at the Hindenburg LIne. The Hindenburg Line run from the Cerny at Aisne River to Arras. The battles along the line were..Battle at Mont Saint-Quentin, Battle at Scarpe, Battle at Épehy, Battle at Ypres and Battle at Cambrai for instance . All of them allowaed the Allied forces to advance and break the German defences line there. As a result Germans understood that the war was over and asked for the cease-fire. The Armistice was signed in Compiegne on the 11th Novemeber 1918.

If you want you may read more here... Hundred Days Offensive - Wikipedia


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## Alecras234 (Oct 26, 2018)

Hi I've just watched a documentary about red arrows and battle of Britain flight, where do I start learning about ww2 aircraft?


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## Wurger (Oct 26, 2018)

Here... List of aircraft of World War II - Wikipedia

and you may try to find the books... and many, many others.

Complete Book of World War II Combat Aircraft

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## Alecras234 (Oct 26, 2018)

this book any good?


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## Wurger (Oct 26, 2018)

I haven't seen the one so far but it seems to be OK.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 27, 2018)

How did you learn about World War 2? i have seen lots of ww2 books but i don't buy them because i don't know what's right or wrong. i feel as though i can't learn because the information might be wrong. The books i bought on WW2 you said have wrong information in them, so i give up!


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## Wurger (Oct 27, 2018)

These mistakes in books can happen and there is no way to avoid them. I have learned and still learning reading different books ( also from different countries ) and compare the info from them. . Only In the way it is possible to find all the mistakes and inaccuracies in the books.So if you want to learn about the WW2 you shouldn't worry about if these are wrong or right. The different matter is the price of the books. Often it is better to buy two or three smaller ones for less cost than one big being very expensive.

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## swampyankee (Oct 27, 2018)

In addition to what Wurger said, there are a lot of other reasons for differences between WW2 books:

> Many primary sources were simply not available until events such as the end of the USSR or 50-year rules. Two areas where these caused, or should have caused, changes in history were the Eastern Front, where information was buried in Soviet archives, and in the effects of codebreaking, where much of it was buried in British and US archives.

> Social norms have made some stories simply unacceptable. An example is the simple fact that German and Italian PoWs were frequently given _more_ freedom and better accommodation, especially transport, than the African-American soldiers that were guarding them. This would not, for example, have been acceptable to mention in a 1950s or 1960s era popular history work, especially one for US publication.

>Many historians -- especially historians writing for the popular press -- can be sloppy, such as not questioning eyewitnesses (who are notoriously unreliable even about events they've directly observed) or assuming memoirists can be trusted (a non-WW2 example of this is Jefferson Davis, who was all about slavery as the driving cause for secession in his writings before losing the American Civil War and all about "states' rights" after). A more WW2-relevant one may be Stillwell, who detested Chiang Kai-shek, which colored everything Stillwell wrote and said.

> Ideological viewpoints. Extreme example: Holocaust deniers.

> Chauvinism. Obviously, related to ideology, but may result in historians ignoring contributions by other nations' forces or ignoring errors and outright malfeasance by their own. Related to both this and ideology is the poor coverage of Japanese, Italian, and Soviet technological developments. 

> Narrow viewpoint. This frequently shows up with biographies, many of which approach hagiography,but it is also a factor with official histories, unit histories, and examinations (some of which are very good within their domain) of aircraft, ships, and ordnance.

> Sloppiness. The most persistent example of this is the almost worshipful treatment of German aeronautical developments. Quite a lot of that is seen on this site (example: I've seen many people tout the Bf109's "superior aerodynamics," which is rather surprising at its zero-lift drag coefficient was about 40% greater than average for single-engine WW2 fighters and 70% greater than that of the P-51).

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## pbehn (Oct 27, 2018)

As an example of what Swampyankee is talking about, Winston Churchill won the Nobel prize for literature for his History of World War Two. He had a team of researchers to help and unprecedented knowledge and access to records of events of which he was actually involved in. Despite this, whatever you think of it (it is a good read) it cannot be right because he was not allowed to mention the full extent of the cracking of German codes. By the time the activities at Bletchley Park and elsewhere was allowed into the public domain Churchill had died.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 27, 2018)

so i can read any ww2 book even if it's wrong?


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## Wurger (Oct 27, 2018)

Of course you can. The fully wrong books about WW2 don't happen often. Usually it is a matter of a couple of wrong dates, pic captions or names etc.. sometimes there can appear mistakes for reasons Swampyankee mentioned above. But mostly it is quite easy to find them especially if you read another book about the same.

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## Alecras234 (Oct 27, 2018)

so i could read this book, even though you said the paragraph i posted was wrong?


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## swampyankee (Oct 27, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> so i can read any ww2 book even if it's wrong?



Excluding books such as Holocaust denial tracts, it's not so much wrong as incomplete or outdated. Wurger posted one great example of a history which was outdated by information released long after the work was written (Churchill had access to the information, but wasn't going to use it). The solution is to read multiple books, and try to cross national boundaries to include reputable historians from multiple countries.

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## Wurger (Oct 27, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> so i could read this book, even though you said the paragraph i posted was wrong?
> 
> View attachment 514596



Yes you can read that book. But please try to find another book of another author for comparing the info provided by both of them. And follow Swampyankee's advice and keep your mind open. The selection of WW2 books is realy huge and the multiple books from multiple countries are really a great help in the learning.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 28, 2018)

Hi I found a book in kindle format called ALayman's Guide to Ww2, it's interesting but I'm already confused. The first chapter is titled Hype and hyperinflation.Here is first page. The First World War left Germany in a state of chaos . The German Emperor, Kaiser Wilhelm II, fled to Holland and was replaced by the first democratically elected government in its history. On 11 February 1919 Friedrich Ebert, the leader of the German Social Democratic Party (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands – SDP), was elected as the first President of the new German Republic and he took control of a Germany that was volatile. What's democratically? And Fredrick Ebert was German president, yes? The first chapter goes on forever.


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## Wurger (Oct 28, 2018)

Yes, Fredrick Ebert was the German first president elected in 1919. The Germany was called at that time the German Republic or Weirmar Republic. Ebert was elected by the National Assembly in the first round of voting by 277 of 379 votes. The way of the presidential election was because the German Republic constitution with the rules of a direct popular vote, wasn't completed yet. Therefore it was done by the Members of the National Assembly only. However it is a kind of the democracy and that's the reason for using of the word "democratically" in the book. It means that Ebert was elected by voting in the democratic way.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 28, 2018)

Does this mean that after the armistice Germany couldn't find peace and were on the verge of another war. Everyone blamed each other for the war. Post-war Germany struggled with the concept of peace in the immediate aftermath of the Armistice . The country was a political melting pot on the verge of revolution with fear and hatred ruling the streets. Everyone was blaming everyone else for the demise of their country and running battles, assassinations, riots, beatings and general civil unrest were daily occurrences.


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## Wurger (Oct 28, 2018)

Generally yes. That time was the moment when the Soviet, October Revolution occured. The idea of the communism became very popular in the Europe, espeially in the Germany. Additionally the Treaty of Versailles made Germans dissatisfied. The econamical sytuation also made that worse. All of that and a couple of other reasons caused what you posted above.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 28, 2018)

Without all the detail is what I said correct? I'm reading a simplified book. Does this mean that after the armistice Germany couldn't find peace and were on the verge of another war. Everyone blamed each other for the war..


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## Wurger (Oct 28, 2018)

Yes that's correct. Just a note though .. the war you mentioned.. it wasn't going to be the another war aginst other countries but it would be the civil war in Germany. Also Germans blamed each other for the WW1. So these wars aren't the same one right?


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## swampyankee (Oct 28, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> Does this mean that after the armistice Germany couldn't find peace and were on the verge of another war. Everyone blamed each other for the war. Post-war Germany struggled with the concept of peace in the immediate aftermath of the Armistice . The country was a political melting pot on the verge of revolution with fear and hatred ruling the streets. Everyone was blaming everyone else for the demise of their country and running battles, assassinations, riots, beatings and general civil unrest were daily occurrences.



One of the very real problems that Germany had, immediately post-Armistice, was that many army veterans _immediately_ acted to destroy the civilian government that had replaced the Kaiser and the dictatorial regime of Ludendorff and HIndenburg, the former notoriously refusing to admit the army had actually been beaten, and instead blaming the people of Germany, especially Jews and socialists, for Germany's defeat. The real stab in the back to the German people was by their WW1 military leaders. 

The idea that Versailles was hideously vicious just doesn't bear up under scrutiny: it was actually less retributive than the peace treaty enforced by Germany against France after the Franco-Prussian War, the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, and the Treaty of Vienna, that ended the Napoleonic Wars.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 31, 2018)

Hi i've started reading the book WW2 History in an hour again, but as im reading it im always thinking is this information wrong or is it correct. Should i not think whether it's right or wrong and just learn it? Here's the first chapter. 

Germany Invades Poland: ‘This is how I deal with any European city’ 
The Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact, signed on 23 August 1939, allowed Hitler to pursue his ambitions in the east without fear of Russian interference; ambitions that included the destruction of Poland and the subjugation of its people. The attack on Poland began at 4.45 on the morning of Friday, 1 September 1939.

The Germans, not intending to be bogged down again in a war of trenches and stalemate, swept aside all resistance in a lightning war of blitzkrieg, using technological military 
advances, co-ordinated attacks and abrasive speed. Following up the rapid advances, German forces engaged in brutality, executions and merciless aggression against the civilian population. Neville Chamberlain, who had been Britain’s Conservative prime minister since 1937, and who five months earlier had guaranteed the Poles assistance if attacked, dutifully declared war on Germany on 3 September followed, six hours later, by the French. The British contribution to the Polish cause was not with arms, nor soldiers, nor aid, but with leaflets – by the million, dropped by plane over Germany, urging the population to stand up against Hitler and the war. On 17 September, as the German war machine 
advanced its way towards Warsaw, the Soviet Union as secretly agreed in the Non-Aggression Pact, attacked from the east. Crushed between two totalitarian heavyweights, Poland crumbled, and on the twenty-seventh, Warsaw surrendered. Agreeing on the partition of Poland, the Germans and Russians then set about the total subjugation of the defeated population. Villages were razed, inhabitants massacred, the Polish identity eradicated; and in towns, such as Lodz, Jews were herded into ghettos before eventual transportation to the death camps. With his first objective achieved, Hitler visited Warsaw on 5 October, and casting a satisfied eye over the devastated capital, declared: ‘this is how I deal with any European city’.


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## Wurger (Oct 31, 2018)

It is correct Ash. The only inaccuracy is the date of the Warsaw capitulation. It should be " on the twenty-eighth, Warsaw surrendered". But the process of getting the Warsaw surrendered lasted from 26th to 28th when the agreement was signed and started being followed. So the 27th also can be as the ceasefire started on that day.


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## pbehn (Oct 31, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> Villages were razed, inhabitants massacred, the Polish identity eradicated; and in towns, such as Lodz, Jews were herded into ghettos before eventual transportation to the death camps. With his first objective achieved, Hitler visited Warsaw on 5 October, and casting a satisfied eye over the devastated capital, declared: ‘this is how I deal with any European city’.


 I don't know what your problem is with what you posted. Hitlers strategy was one going back to the ancient conflicts in the middle ages. Cities that resisted a siege were "sacked" the people brutalised killed and raped and property destroyed, cities that didn't resist were spared. The problem comes when you sack a city that surrenders, then no city surrenders again, this is what happened to Hitler at Moscow and Stalingrad.


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## Alecras234 (Oct 31, 2018)

hi im reading about the winter war, was it fought because Russia wanted land from Finland?


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## Wurger (Oct 31, 2018)

Generally yes it was.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 1, 2018)

Hi aswel as the book im reading called History in an hour WW2, im also looking at a sample of an ebook called A Layman's guide to WW2, it covers a lot more topics of ww2 than the history in an hour and to be honest i prefer the Layman's ebook. The only problem i have with the Layman's book is is that the wording is hard to read. What do i do about the wording, do i just read it without worrying what certain bits mean because it's hard to understand the wording?


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## Wurger (Nov 1, 2018)

Not sure about how to help with the wording, Dear Mate. I would suggest finding a good dictionary. In the way you may check on meaning of each word you can't understand. Or you have to find another book with wording that can be readable by you. Unfortunately it is not possible to avoid the kind or words because there are things that can be discribed just with these words only.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 1, 2018)

I'm reading about the Treaty of Versailles from my book. It says,
Many believed that the settlement at the end of World War One was neither clean nor decisive. The treaty signed at Versailles didn’t make much of an allowance for peace as it punished Germany by confiscating territory and forcing the people to pay reparations to help rebuild France and reduce the Allied debt to America. The German army was to be almost completely demilitarised, deprived of its modern weapons and slashed to a fraction of its former size. So instead of negating Germany as a threat, the settlement led to deep-seated anger and resentment among its people. These feelings 
were only heightened when the country’s economy spiralled out of control in the early 1920s. The downturn left millions penniless and contributed to more bitterness in what was the country’s darkest hour.

Does it mean that, the Treaty of versailles punished Germany by taking land away and giving to France, then it forced people to pay to rebuild France? Also all the military weapons in the German army were got rid of and it led to the German people being very angry. Then Germany became bankrupt in the 1920's because of the reparations they had to pay which turned the German people very bitter. Am i correct in thinking that that is what the treaty of versailles was about?


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## Wurger (Nov 1, 2018)

Yes. You are correct. The Treary of Versailles cased the Germans being very disappointed and then angry. No wonder because the pact set limits for the Germany. These were the economic, military and territorial ones.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 2, 2018)

i want to write a list of things to remember about the Treaty of Versailles. Shall i put in my list that it was signed on June 28 1919, It brought an end to world war one, it punished Germany by taking land away, made Germany pay money to rebuild France which left Germany bankrupt. The treaty also cut down on weapons,


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## Wurger (Nov 2, 2018)

Sounds fine. You may put it in the list.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 2, 2018)

How does this sound? 
Treaty of Versailles signed – 28 June 1919, 
Treaty of Versailles set out in 3 groups – Territorial, Military and Economic.
Territorial – took land away from Germany
Economic – Forced German people to pay to help rebuild France,
Military – Germany forced to disarm of its weapons
Here is the chapter from my book, do i need to add more about the treaty?

Many believed that the settlement at the end of World War One was neither clean nor decisive. The treaty signed at Versailles didn’t make much of an allowance for peace as it punished Germany by confiscating territory and forcing the people to pay reparations to help rebuild France and reduce the Allied debt to America. The German army was to be almost completely demilitarised, deprived of its modern weapons and slashed to a fraction of its former size. So instead of negating Germany as a threat, the settlement led to deep-seated anger and resentment among its people. These feelings 
were only heightened when the country’s economy spiralled out of control in the early 1920s. The downturn left millions penniless and contributed to more bitterness in what was the country’s darkest hour. The people believed that they hadn’t been beaten in battle and had actually been betrayed on the Western Front by incompetent leaders and at home by cowardly and weak politicians. They needed someone to turn to who would relieve them from their suffering and who would avenge the humiliation heaped on them by the West.


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## Wurger (Nov 2, 2018)

All sounds good. You don't need to add anything more.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 2, 2018)

Thank you. what can i say about the League of Nations please? Here is the chapter from my book.

The Americans, British and French drew up proposals for a League of Nations that would resolve international disputes by 
diplomatic rather than military means. The old and worryingly powerful Austro-Hungarian Empire was dissolved into smaller, weaker states like Czechoslovakia, but there were still underlying issues that needed to be addressed, such as the allegiance of the millions of Germans living in these new states. It was this desire to be reunited with their brothers throughout central Europe that was the time-bomb waiting to explode. President Woodrow Wilson was overruled by congress on his return to the US and America was forced to withdraw from the League of Nations. Without its most powerful member, the league was bereft of the strength it would need should territorial disputes arise. Germany’s fledgling Weimar Republic was immediately threatened when right-wing nationalists clashed with revolutionary communists. Tension escalated when ordinary people’s savings were wiped out during the hyperinflationary years and economic turmoil. The time was right for a skilled orator – who worked receptive audiences by preaching extreme right-wing views – to begin his ascent to power. Adolf Hitler had been born in Austria but 
he’d fought for Germany with distinction in the First World War. After the conflict he returned to Munich and was soon recruiting followers to the once-marginalised National Socialist Party. In October 1923 Hitler believed he had enough support to overthrow the republic but he was stabbed in the back by supposedly loyal followers and the coup failed. He was imprisoned for nine months, during which time he wrote Mein Kampf (My Struggle), which blamed Germany’s weak economy on the Jews and claimed the way to solve the country’s problems was to seize territory in Eastern Europe.


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## Wurger (Nov 2, 2018)

You may keep in mind the date when the League of Nations was started. And also that the organization didn't help with keeping the world peace. I think it should be enough.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 2, 2018)

was Germany bankrupt in the 1920's because of the war reparations?


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## Wurger (Nov 2, 2018)

To be honest it wasn'tthe only reason for that. The main reason for that was the very bad financial condition of the Weimar Republic. The inflation was growing up slightly just already during the WW1 time. In 1919/1920 the inflation started accelerating. The reasons for that were.. 

- incrasing of prices and salaries, what caused increased money issue.
- the budged deficit because of needs of WW1 , the recovery of post-war economy and payment of war reparations
- difficulties in getting new bank loans
- needs of importation of more and more expensive raw materials.

All of that caused the German economical crisis in 1919-1923. As you may see the matter is more complex. Anyway the payement of the war reparations was the one that speeded up the crisis.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 3, 2018)

was the Molotov-Ribbentop pact signed so that Hitler could feel free to invade countries without Russia interfering? Why Poland? What if Hitler hadnt of signed the pact?


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## Wurger (Nov 3, 2018)

Generally yes. The pact allowed Hitler to attack other countires, especially these Eastern ones.

Why Poland...? Partially because of the Treaty of Versailles that took away some of land belonged before the WW1 to Germany. The land was given to Poland. Secondly, Hitler was affraid of fighting on the two sides if he would start a war against Western countries firstly. Poland as the allay of France would attack with no hesitation if Hitler would invade France. Thirdly, Poland seemed to be the weakest allay at that time.

If not signed pact ... it is quite difficult to state. Stalin could attack Poland fistly. Also he could try to find an agreement with Poland. But it wasn't possible rather. Poland , after the war with Soviet Russian in 1920 and the victory, was never willing to cooperate with the country in any way.
Of course Stalin could attack Germany if Germans' addvance would compromise the soviet interests.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 4, 2018)

thanks for that information. Is this a good definition of buffer zone? 
an area lying between two countries and providing each with protection from the other


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## Wurger (Nov 4, 2018)

Sounds good.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 4, 2018)

I was told to r3ad my book and pick out things that I want to remember. This is the first page of chapter one, The Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact , signed on 23 August 1939, allowed Hitler to pursue his ambitions in the east without fear of Russian interference; ambitions that included the destruction of Poland and the subjugation of its people. The attack on Poland began at 4.45 on the morning of Friday, 1 September. Im not sure what this means 1939, allowed Hitler to pursue his ambitions in the east without fear of Russian interference; ambitions that included the destruction of Poland.


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## Wurger (Nov 4, 2018)

It means that the pact Ribbentrop - Molotov allowed Hitler to make his dreams about German's expansion on the East come true without Stalin's objections. The Hitler's policy ( dream / idea ) was called the "Drang nach Osten" ( the march to the East) .

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## Alecras234 (Nov 4, 2018)

So Hitler could attack countries east of France without Russia attacking him? Couldn't he of done that anyway?


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## Wurger (Nov 4, 2018)

Depending on what you mean by the countries east of France. If you mean the Belgium and Holland. Nope these countires weren't the ones to attack.
The Hitler's policy "Drang nach Osten" meant the countries east of Germany like Poland, Czechoslovakia, Lithouania, Estonia and Latva


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## Alecras234 (Nov 4, 2018)

So basically the Molotov ribbontrov pact allowed Hitler to invade Poland without Russia attacking Germany? Also in the pact allowed Russia to invade Poland aswel às Germany?


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## Wurger (Nov 4, 2018)

Yes. it did.


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## swampyankee (Nov 4, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> So basically the Molotov ribbontrov pact allowed Hitler to invade Poland without Russia attacking Germany? Also in the pact allowed Russia to invade Poland aswel às Germany?



More accurately, it allowed both Germany and the USSR to partition Poland for the fourth time without worrying about each invading the other's part. 

Neither Hitler nor Stalin felt that an independent Poland had a right to exist: its destruction had been Russian, Prussian, and Austrian policy for well over a century (see Poland, First Partition Of, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - Russia's Periphery, and others), and Stalin and the USSR largely continued that policy. Destruction of Poland was one of the results in the Treaty of Vienna; neither Stalin nor Hitler were originators of the idea of destroying Poland, and prevention of an independent Poland was one of the bases for the "Holy" Alliance of Russia, Prussia (and Prussia dominated German politics after unificication), Austria (which couldn't tolerate the idea of nationalism and survive as an empire) and the UK (which seemed to become the least enthusiastic member after a few years). 

In other words, Hitler and Stalin were _continuing_ their realms' policies to destroy Poland. Hitler wanted to explicitly destroy the Polish people and murder all the Jews (who had settled in Poland because of Poland's relative toleration for Jews when it existed as an independent state). Stalin just wanted control; he wanted to destroy Polish sovereignty.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 7, 2018)

Hi i thought i'd get a book on WW1 to get some background. It talks about Archduke Franz Ferdinand and im not sure what this means, 
Bosnia had been a recent and unwilling addition to the Habsburg Empire. Resentful Bosnian Serbs dreamt of freedom and incorporation into the nation of Serbia. Nationalistic groups formed, determined to use violence to strike terror at the heart of the Austrian– Hungarian empire. One such group, the sinisterly named ‘Black Hand’, included among its number a nineteen-year-old named Gavrilo Princip. It was in Sarajevo that Princip would change the world. Princip and a handful of his Black Hand comrades arrived, each armed with a bomb and, in the event of failure, a vial of cyanide. They joined, at various intervals, the throng of onlookers lined along a 6-km route and waited for the six-car motorcade to come into view.

Does it mean that Bosnia had joined the Hadsberg empire but weren't happy about joining. The bosnian people wanted freedom from Herdberg empire, im not sure about the rest.


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## Wurger (Nov 7, 2018)

Before the 1908/1909 the Bosnia and Herzegovina belonged to the Ottoman Empire, Then it was annexed by the Austro-Hungarian Empire also known as the Habsburg Empire. The Serbia ( The Kingdom of Serbia ) was the independent country at that time. However there were Serbs living in the Bosnia and Herzegovina. They dreamd of freedom and being joined the Serbia. So the answer to your question is that not the people of Bosnia weren't happy of the annexing but Serbs living there. Many of young Serbs formed small squads that are called terrorist groups today. Using the terror and violence they wanted to bully the Austrian-Hungary Empire and cause the joining the Serbia. One of these terror group named Black Hand, organized and executed an attack on the Archduke Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo. Gavrilo Princip was a member of the squad and prticipated in the assassination. . The swing is considered the reason for the WW1 started.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 7, 2018)

Does this mean that Austria-Hungary wanted to declare war on Serbia if they didn't agree to their ultimatum? 
Austrian– Hungarian empire saw an opportunity to assert its authority over Serbia. 
It took the Austrian– Hungarian government three weeks but the ultimatum they sent Serbia was, in the words of Britain’s foreign secretary, Sir Edward Grey, the ‘most formidable document ever sent from one nation to another’. Serbia was given forty-eight hours to comply with ten demands, specifically designed to humiliate and 
therefore be rejected. Although the Serbs agreed to eight, it was never going to be enough for the bellicose Austrian– Hungarians and on 28 July they declared war on Serbia.


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## Wurger (Nov 7, 2018)

Yes. by the ultimatum the Austria-Hungary wanted to provoke Serbia. These ten unacceptable points of the ultimatum couldn't be embraced by Serbs. So when they agreed to the eight points only the Austro-Hungary Empire declared the war on Serbia.


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## swampyankee (Nov 7, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> Hi i thought i'd get a book on WW1 to get some background. It talks about Archduke Franz Ferdinand and im not sure what this means,
> Bosnia had been a recent and unwilling addition to the Habsburg Empire. Resentful Bosnian Serbs dreamt of freedom and incorporation into the nation of Serbia. Nationalistic groups formed, determined to use violence to strike terror at the heart of the Austrian– Hungarian empire. One such group, the sinisterly named ‘Black Hand’, included among its number a nineteen-year-old named Gavrilo Princip. It was in Sarajevo that Princip would change the world. Princip and a handful of his Black Hand comrades arrived, each armed with a bomb and, in the event of failure, a vial of cyanide. They joined, at various intervals, the throng of onlookers lined along a 6-km route and waited for the six-car motorcade to come into view.
> 
> Does it mean that Bosnia had joined the Hadsberg empire but weren't happy about joining. The bosnian people wanted freedom from Herdberg empire, im not sure about the rest.




Pretty much no one “joined” the Austrian Empire; the Habsburgs tended to conquer by marriage but maintain with force. Serbia was not, however, part of the empire. Some Serbians were in the empire, though.

Balkan history is complex, involving Austria, the Ottomans, Byzantium, 19th Century romanticism, and government-sponsored terrorism.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 7, 2018)

so because a sebian killed Franz Ferdinand, Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia with help from Germany?


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## Wurger (Nov 7, 2018)

Actually, the problem is more complex. But for making the entire matter much easier it can be said that the death of Franz Ferdinand was the reason for the war.

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## Alecras234 (Nov 8, 2018)

the chapter, 
The assassination of Franz Ferdinand had very much been the work of Princip and his band of Black Hand conspirators but the Austrian– Hungarian empire saw an opportunity to assert its authority over 
Serbia. First it sought reassurance from its powerful ally, Germany. Together, they had formed the Dual Alliance in 1879 which, three years later, became the Triple Alliance when Italy added its signature. Now, the German Kaiser, Wilhelm II, gave Austria-Hungary the assurance it needed, then promptly went off on a cruise around Norway. It took the Austrian– Hungarian government three weeks but the ultimatum they sent Serbia was, in the words of Britain’s foreign secretary, Sir Edward Grey, the ‘most formidable document ever sent from one nation to another’. Serbia was given forty-eight hours to comply with ten demands, specifically designed to humiliate and 
therefore be rejected. Although the Serbs agreed to eight, it was never going to be enough for the bellicose Austrian– Hungarians and on 28 July they declared war on Serbia. Events now moved quickly, one triggering off another. In response to this declaration of war, Russia, which saw itself as protector of Serbia, began to mobilize. France, Russia’s ally since 1892, offered her its support. In response, the Germans gave Russia twelve hours to halt its mobilization. The deadline passed, thus on 1 August, Germany declared war on Russia and, two days later, on France. ‘The sword has been forced into our hand,’ claimed the Kaiser.

it's saying that Austria hungary declared war on Serbia after Serbian shot Franz Ferdinand. Germany helped Austria with the ultimatum. So it was the refusal of the ten demands that really fuelled war?


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## swampyankee (Nov 8, 2018)

There was a lot of social factors, including people in authority who thought war would be a good thing for the country’s people. 

Princips may have thrown the match, but the governments had strewn gunpowder and gasoline all over the floor.

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## Wurger (Nov 8, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> it's saying that Austria hungary declared war on Serbia after Serbian shot Franz Ferdinand. Germany helped Austria with the ultimatum. So it was the refusal of the ten demands that really fuelled war?



Ash.. as I had stated it and it is said by swampyankee above ... there was more factors that caused the war was started. But for easier way of remembering the info in general way , you may say that the killing of the Franz Ferdinad and Serbian refusal of two demands of the ultimatum were the reasons for the war.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 16, 2018)

Hi how can i explain what the Schlieffen plan was briefly? i know that Germany was sandwiched between Russia and France


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## Wurger (Nov 16, 2018)

The plane assumed defeating of France in 6 weeks. It was going to be reached by moving almost all German units from the Eastern Front to the West.
Most of the German Army was going to attach through the Belgium. Germans were going to go around the Paris and attack from the back, bottlig up and destroying the entire French Army. Then the German Army was going to be moved back to the Eastern Front to keep fighting aginst the Russia.

So briefly it could be..
Deafeating of France in 6 weeks.
Moving almost all German units from the East to the West.
Attacking through the Belgium.
Going around Paris and attacking the French Army from the back
Bottling up and destroying of the French Army.
Moving army units back to the East to keep fighting against the Russia.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 16, 2018)

Shall i say, Schlieffen plan was an attack on France via Belgium, Encircling down to Paris? that doesnt sound right. in my book it says, 
Germany now faced a war on both its western and eastern borders; a war on two fronts. But it was a prospect they had long anticipated. In 1905, the then German Chief of Staff, Count Alfred von Schlieffen, had devised a plan for such an eventuality. Russia, he surmised, not incorrectly, would take up to six weeks to mobilize its armies, allowing Germany time to defeat France. In order to avoid the line of fortifications on the Franco-German border, the German army would have to advance through neutral Belgium 
in a huge sweeping movement: ‘let the last man on the right brush the Channel with his sleeve’. Having knocked out Belgium, it would swing south, covering twenty kilometres a day, and encircle Paris. Having dealt with the French, it would then have time to move east to confront the vast armies of Russia. Schlieffen died in 1913. One year later, his grand plan was put into action.


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## Wurger (Nov 16, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> Shall i say, Schlieffen plan was an attack on France via Belgium, Encircling down to Paris? that doesnt sound right. .



Why it doesn't sound right? It sounds very right. To understand the Schlieffen's plane you need to have a look at a map. Can you see?


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## Alecras234 (Nov 16, 2018)

so this sounds ok? , Schlieffen plan was an attack on France via Belgium, encircling down to Paris


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## Wurger (Nov 16, 2018)

Generally yes it sounds OK.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 16, 2018)

How would you say it from what it says in my book. I can't think how to describe the schliefen plan from what it says in my book. Shall I say first that Germany was attacked from both sides from Russia and France? Then I could say that Schlieffen plan devised by Alfred Von Schlieffen in 1905, after that I don't know.


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## swampyankee (Nov 16, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> How would you say it from what it says in my book. I can't think how to describe the schliefen plan from what it says in my book. Shall I say first that Germany was attacked from both sides from Russia and France? Then I could say that Schlieffen plan devised by Alfred Von Schlieffen in 1905, after that I don't know.



Germany was not attacked from east and west; the German government felt threatened (this may be giving the German government’s position too much positive credit). Germany attacked France in 1914. There was certainly no love lost between France and Germany, with the treaty ending the Franco-Prussian War being more vindicative than Versailles.

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## Wurger (Nov 16, 2018)

I agree with the post above.. Germany wasn't attacked from both sides by Russia and France. The plan was devised by the Field Marshal Alfred von Schlieffen in 1905 just in case Gemany would have to attack the France fighting against the Russia as well. The plane was executed in 1914 unsuccessfully. To a certain extent the Manstein's plan of invading on France in 1940 was the copy of the Schlieffen 's one but adjusted ( fitted ) to the warfare with the modern armament. Because the Schlieffen's plane was the Blitzkrieg tactic it fitted Hitler's plane of making war.


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## Alecras234 (Nov 16, 2018)

Germany faced a two front war. Did the Schlieffen plan come in then to attack France before the Russians got their armies together? They encircled France by going through Belgium


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## Wurger (Nov 16, 2018)

The Schlieffen's plan was developed in case the Germany would have to fight against the France and Russia together, nine years before the WW1 started.
And yes, one of the assumptions of the plane was that Germant would attack and defeat the France in 6 weeks before Russia would be able to gather the army. Also it is correct Germans were going to to attack France going through Belgium in order to encircle the French Army but not France. Rather it would be quite difficult to encircle the entire country right?


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## swampyankee (Nov 16, 2018)

France and Russia, and later Britain, formed an alliance because Germany and Austria-Hungary were viewed as untrustworthy and aggressive.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 5, 2018)

How do i say what the schlieffen plan was and its build up simply from this chapter? 
Germany now faced a war on both its western and eastern borders; a war on two fronts. But it was a prospect they had long anticipated. In 1905, the then German Chief of Staff, Count Alfred von Schlieffen, had devised a plan for such an eventuality. Russia, he surmised, not incorrectly, would take up to six weeks to mobilize its armies, allowing Germany time to defeat France. In order to avoid the line of fortifications on the Franco-German border, the German army would have to advance through neutral Belgium in a huge sweeping movement: ‘let the last man on the right brush the Channel with his sleeve’. Having knocked out Belgium, it would swing south, covering twenty kilometres a day, and encircle Paris. Having dealt with the French, it would then have time to move east to confront the vast armies of Russia. Schlieffen died in 1913. One year later, his grand plan was put into action. Speed was of the essence. On 2 August, Germany stormed through Luxembourg and demanded immediate access through Belgium. But ‘Poor little Belgium’, as the British press called her, refused and turned to a 1839 treaty, guaranteeing its neutrality. One of the signatories was Germany. The other was Great Britain. I've written down that Germany eastern western borders threatened, Alfred von schlieffen devised plan in 1905, do they sound ok or do they need changing, i dont know what else to type.


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## Wurger (Dec 5, 2018)

The von Shliffen's plan was built up to deafeat the France before the Russia could mobilize the army. The quick defeating of the France would allow Germany to avoid the war on two frontlines.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 6, 2018)

hi, how could i make short simple facts from this chapter? 

Germany now faced a war on both its western and eastern borders; a war on two fronts. But it was a prospect they had long anticipated. In 1905, the then German Chief of Staff, Count Alfred von Schlieffen, had devised a plan for such an eventuality. Russia, he surmised, not incorrectly, would take up to six weeks to mobilize its armies, allowing Germany time to defeat France. In order to avoid the line of fortifications on the Franco-German border, the German army would have to advance through neutral Belgium in a huge sweeping movement: ‘let the last man on the right brush the Channel with his sleeve’. Having knocked out Belgium, it would swing south, covering twenty kilometres a day, and encircle Paris. Having dealt with the French, it would then have time to move east to confront the vast armies of Russia. Schlieffen died in 1913. One year later, his grand plan was put into action. Speed was of the essence. On 2 August, Germany stormed through Luxembourg and demanded immediate access through Belgium. But ‘Poor little Belgium’, as the British press called her, refused and turned to a 1839 treaty, guaranteeing its neutrality. One of the signatories was Germany. The other was Great Britain.


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## swampyankee (Dec 6, 2018)

Wurger said:


> The von Shliffen's plan was built up to deafeat the France before the Russia could mobilize the army. The quick defeating of the France would allow Germany to avoid the war on two frontlines.



Von Schlieffen expected to be able to dictate terms after a quick victory. His successors on the general staff didn’t get a victory, let alone a quick one.

Optimists are never pleasantly surprised.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 6, 2018)

i want to make short facts from the sentences so i remember important facts. How so i do this please?


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## Wurger (Dec 6, 2018)

Just use a couple of points with short sentences describing the facts.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 6, 2018)

Does Germany western eastern border threatened sound ok or should i word it differently? Russia - 6 weeks to mobilize armies, Shlieffen plan - Germany attacked France via Belgium. Do they sound ok?


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## Wurger (Dec 6, 2018)

These sound good.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 6, 2018)

Does this sound ok? please tell me what to put instead. i cant think of how to briefly put about the Germans encircling France down to Paris. Here is my list. 
Germany/ eastern western borders threatened

Alfred Von Shlieffen designed battle plan – 1905

Shlieffen plan intended to avoid a two front war

Russia – 6 weeks to mobilize its armies

Germany invaded France first via Belgium

Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913

Shlieffen plan used 1 year later

Germany, via Luxembourg to get to Belgium – 2 August

Belgium refused access - Treaty with Britain

Germans bombed Belgium – 4 August

Britain – war on Germany – 4 August


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## Wurger (Dec 6, 2018)

Generally It's OK. Just tone point I would get corrected..

- Germany invaded France first via Belgium....... the attack was the main purpose of the Shlieffen's plan. 
So it should be:
- Germany was going to attack France via the Belgium.

To keep the time order of the list I would put it in the way...


Alfred Von Shlieffen designed battle plan – 1905
Germany was going to attack France via the Belgium
Shlieffen plan intended to avoid a two front war
Russia – 6 weeks to mobilize its armies
Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913
Shlieffen plan used 1 year later
Germany, via Luxembourg to get to Belgium – 2 August
Belgium refused access - Treaty with Britain
Germans bombed Belgium – 4 August
Britain – war on Germany – 4 August


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## Alecras234 (Dec 6, 2018)

How does this sound? 
Germany /eastern western borders threatened

Alfred Von Shlieffen designed battle plan – 1905

Germany attacked France via Belgium

Shlieffen plan intended to avoid a two front war

Russia – 6 weeks to mobilize its armies

Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913

Shlieffen plan used 1 year later

August 2, Germany refused access into Belgium

Belgium treaty with Britain broken by Germans

4 August, Germany bombed Belgium

4 August, Britain declares war on Germany

How can i say that Germany encircled France?


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## Wurger (Dec 6, 2018)

Alec you are still mixing the facts. The Shlieffen's plan was just a plan only. It was created in case the Germany would have to fight against enemies on two fronts. Von Shlieffen created the plan in 1905 but it had been edited a couple of times before Germans tried to use it in 1914. So there was the interval of nine years between its creating and using. 

Therefore the order of the list should be ..

Alfred Von Shlieffen designed battle plan – 1905
Germany was going to attack France via the Belgium
Shlieffen plan intended to avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks.
Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913
Shlieffen plan used 1 year later
August 2, Germany demended access into Belgium and being refused.
August 3, Germany attacked Belgium
Belgium treaty with Britain broken by Germans
August 4, Britain declares war on Germany


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## Alecras234 (Dec 7, 2018)

ok thank you. I have typed out the list, does this look ok?

Alfred Von Shlieffen designed battle plan – 1905

Germany was going to attack France via Belgium

Shlieffen plan was intended to avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks

Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913

Shlieffen plan used 1 year later

August 2, Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused

Belgium Treaty with Britain broken by Germans

August 3, Germany attacked Belgium

August 4, Britain declares war on Germany

Where it says Germany was going to attack France via Belgium, i don't quite understand was going to, they did attack France via Belgium so should it be they did attack via Belgium?


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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2018)

OK. Once again..

Von Shlieffen's plane had been designed long time before the WW1 started. The plane was created in case the Germany would have to fight against the France and Russia. together what would mean the war on two fronts. But it was just a plan ( idea ) only. Therefore if you plan something to do for the future you say : you are going to do something right? Unless my English isn't that good as I think.
Nine years later when the war started, Germans already had a plan ready to use. So they decided to follow it although the orginal Shlieffen's plan had been changed a couple of times. before the battle started.

Therefore if you talk about the WW1 you have to separate the info on the Shlieffen's plan and the real warfare, I would suggest editing of four last points of your list by adding the year to the date...

August 2, 1914, Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused

Belgium Treaty with Britain broken by Germans

August 3, 1914, Germany attacked Belgium

August 4, 1914, Britain declares war on Germany


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## Alecras234 (Dec 7, 2018)

changed. 
Alfred Von Shlieffen designed battle plan – 1905
Germany was going to attack France via Belgium
Shlieffen plan was intended to avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks
Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913
Shlieffen plan used 1 year later
August 2 1914, Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused
1839 Belgium Treaty with Britain broken by Germans
August 3 1914, Germany attacked Belgium
August 4 1914, Britain declares war on Germany


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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2018)

Humm..????

1839 Belgium Treaty with Britain broken by Germans


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## Alecras234 (Dec 7, 2018)

thats what my book says. 
On 2 August, Germany stormed through Luxembourg and demanded immediate access through Belgium. But ‘Poor little Belgium’, as the British press called her, refused and turned to a 1839 treaty, guaranteeing its neutrality. One of the signatories was Germany. The other was Great Britain.


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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2018)

It is correct. The treaty about the neutral Belgium was signed in London in 1839. But the way you wrote the point suggests the treaty was broken by Germans just in 1839. But it is not correct because Germans violeted the neutrality of Belgium on 3 August 1914 while atacking the country.
So either you should delete the point entirely or remove the year and edit it and move the point one line down.. like below...

August 3 1914, Germany attacked Belgium
The Belgium neutrality violeted by Germans
August 4 1914, Britain declares war on Germany


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## Alecras234 (Dec 7, 2018)

This ok? How do i say about Britain/Belgium treaty?

Alfred Von Shlieffen designed battle plan – 1905

Germany was going to attack France via Belgium

Shlieffen plan was intended to avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks

Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913

Shlieffen plan used 1 year later

August 2 1914, Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused

August 3 1914, Germany attacked Belgium

Belgium Treaty with Britain broken by Germans

August 4 1914, Britain declares war on Germany


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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2018)

Generally all sounds fine. Butthe point abot the treaty I would replace wih the one rather

- The Belgium neutrality violeted by Germans - 

... I would say that the treaty couldn't be broken by Germans because they didn't signed that.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 7, 2018)

Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused is to do with Belgium neutrality violated by Germans?? do i need Belgium neutrality violated by Germans?


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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2018)

The Germans' demending was an excuse only. They knew that Belgium wouldn't agree for moving the German Army through the country. So being refused Germans attacked Belgium although the they announced the neutrality. In other words the German's attack was the violation. And therefore if you want to remember the fact it should be written as I posted.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 7, 2018)

im sorry but i want to get the facts right. is this ok? 
Alfred Von Shlieffen designed battle plan – 1905

Germany was going to attack France via Belgium

Shlieffen plan was intended to avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks

Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913

Shlieffen plan used in 1914

August 2 1914, Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused

August 3 1914, Germany attacked Belgium

August 4 1914, Britain declares war on Germany

Shall i say that Belgium was allied with Britain?


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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> im sorry but i want to get the facts right. is this ok?
> 
> Alfred Von Shlieffen designed battle plan – 1905
> Germany was going to attack France via Belgium
> ...



Perfect ! 



Alecras234 said:


> Shall i say that Belgium was allied with Britain?



It is not necessarily , IMHO.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 7, 2018)

instead of Germany was going to attack France via Belgium Shall i say Germany attacked France via Belgium?


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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2018)

If you mean the Shlieffen's plane.. nope. It was a plan so no one has attacked anybody. But if you mean the direct action started on 3 August 1914 you can say Germans attacked France viia the Belgium.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 7, 2018)

Like this,
Alfred Von Shlieffen designed battle plan – 1905

Germany attacked France via Belgium

Shlieffen plan was intended to avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks

Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913

Shlieffen plan used in 1914

August 2 1914, Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused

August 3 1914, Germany attacked Belgium

August 4 1914, Britain declares war on Germany


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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2018)

Alec, the statment " Germany attacked France via Belgium " is added incorrectly. Why ?... because it is not put in the chronological order. The first 5 points are about von Shlieffen and his plan. So you can't add that there because nobody was fighting yet. The next 3 points say about the beginning of the real war. So it has to be added there. Like I wrote it below.


August 3 1914, Germany attacked Belgium
August 4 1914, Britain declares war on Germany
Germany attacked France via Belgium

If you really want to add the point at the beginning of the list you may use the one.... Germany planned to attack France via Belgium. And this sentence is correct.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 7, 2018)

i'm confused, this is my list of facts, what's right and whats wrong?

Alfred Von Shlieffen designed battle plan – 1905
Germany planned on attacking France via Belgium
Shlieffen plan was intended to avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks
Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913
Shlieffen plan used in 1914
August 2 1914, Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused
August 3 1914, Germany attacked Belgium
August 4 1914, Britain declares war on Germany


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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2018)

Now all is right. All is correct.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 7, 2018)

Thank you for helping me, could you explain if i do another list of facts how i should do it? i had trouble with the wording in the list you helped me with.


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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2018)

No problem. Glad I helped. I think the way you did the list of facts is a very good idea. All next ones can be done in the same way.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 7, 2018)

Shall i do a list from this chapter?

The first major confrontation between the Great Powers took place in the Belgium town of Mons on 23 August; Britain’s first battle on mainland Europe since Waterloo almost a century before. The ‘contemptible’ BEF, despite being outnumbered three to one, inflicted huge casualties on the Germans, delayed their advance, and then retreated in good order. The Retreat from Mons was, as legend would have it, guided by the ‘Angels of Mons’, ghostly apparitions who safely led the British soldiers away from the battlefield. The Germans advanced through 
France but were rapidly running out of steam, too exhausted to maintain the momentum. By early September they had reached the River Marne, only thirty miles north of Paris. The military commander of Paris, General Joseph Gallieni, was old enough to remember 1871 when the Prussians, Germany’s predecessors, had besieged the capital to the point of starvation. He had no intention of allowing the Germans anywhere near Paris again. After three days of fighting at the Marne, the Germans looked poised to break through the French and British forces, and onto Paris. Gallieni was to send reinforcements but while he had the troops he had no means to transport them.


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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2018)

If you wish you may create two or three points.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 7, 2018)

ok back to the Schlieffen plan, why did the Germans move in a circle through France via Belgium??


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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2018)

Because there was the fortified area along the French-German borderline. And also there were almost all units of the French Army gathered at the area.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 8, 2018)

hi, i cant think how to word what my book says to make into short facts. HELP

The first major confrontation between the Great Powers took place in the Belgium town of Mons on 23 August; Britain’s first battle on mainland Europe since Waterloo almost a century before. The ‘contemptible’ BEF, despite being outnumbered three to one, inflicted huge casualties on the Germans, delayed their advance, and then retreated in good order. The Retreat from Mons was, as legend would have it, guided by the ‘Angels of Mons’, ghostly apparitions who safely led the British soldiers away from the battlefield. The Germans advanced through 
France but were rapidly running out of steam, too exhausted to maintain the momentum. By early September they had reached the River Marne, only thirty miles north of Paris. The military commander of Paris, General Joseph Gallieni, was old enough to remember 1871 when the Prussians, Germany’s predecessors, had besieged the capital to the point of starvation. He had no intention of allowing the Germans anywhere near north.


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## Wurger (Dec 8, 2018)

The first battle of the BEF - Belguim, Mons, 23 August 1914.
Retreat of the BEF from Mons.
Creating of the legend of the ‘Angels of Mons’
Germans advancing.
September 1914 - retreating the French Army and BEF reached the Marne River.
General Joseph Gallieni - the Chief of Paris garrison and defence of the fortress.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 8, 2018)

How did you go about making those short facts from the book, did you just pick out bits here and there from the chapter?

The first two facts sound ok to me but the others dont really. Should Germans advancing be Germans advanced into France? Should September 1914 - retreating the French Army and BEF reached the Marne River be September 1914 - the BEF reached Marne river and French army retreated? im trying to work out how you did these facts.


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## Wurger (Dec 8, 2018)

I understand. OK. I'll explain it to you.
All the info can be found in the text of the chapter you posted above. The only thing I had to add from my memory was the info on Gen. Joseph Gallieni .

Here is the text that says about the first battle of the BEF with the date...
"The first major confrontation between the Great Powers took place in the Belgium town of Mons on 23 August; Britain’s first battle on mainland Europe since Waterloo almost a century before. The ‘contemptible’ BEF, despite being outnumbered three to one, inflicted huge casualties on the Germans, delayed their advance, "

The part says about the retreat of the BEF from the Mons town.
"and then retreated in good order. The Retreat from Mons was, "

Here is the info about the legend of the Angels of Mons’...
"as legend would have it, guided by the ‘Angels of Mons’, ghostly apparitions who safely led the British soldiers away from the battlefield."

And here about the German's advancing ..
"The Germans advanced through "

To answer your question ..


> Should Germans advancing be Germans advanced into France?


It can be wrote in the way too But I was thinking about more general info .

Here is about reaching of the Marne River
"By early September they had reached the River Marne, only thirty miles north of Paris."

To replay your question..


> Should September 1914 - retreating the French Army and BEF reached the Marne River be September 1914 - the BEF reached Marne river and French army retreated?



No it can't be as you wrote. It is because both the BEF and the French Army were reteating together.

Here is the story ..

The battle at the Mons town in Belgium was the first battle the BEF had. But the BEF is not the only army that fought against the Germans in the Belgium. Also the French Army was fighting there. After the lost battle at Charleroi ( East of Mons ) and a danger of being bottled up by Germans , both the French Army and the BEF had to retreat from Belgiom and got back to France.. As a result , Germans advanced in Belgium and entered the France. Both Armies, I mean the French one and the BEF, were moved behind the Marne River where the new French Group Army was concentrated. Being reinforced with the new units, both allied armies started the new battle called the First Battle of the Marne.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 8, 2018)

Does this sound ok? 

The first battle of the BEF – 23 August, Belgium, Mons

BEF retreat from Mons

Creating the legend the Angels of Mons

German army advance through France

Retreat of the French Army and BEF reached the Marne River – September 1914

did this happen during the schlieffen plan? So the BEF attacked the German Army at Mons but then as the Germans advanced the BEF retreated and that's when the Angels of Mons took the BEF away, is that right?


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## Wurger (Dec 8, 2018)

It sounds good except the point..

- German army advance through France ..

I would say

- German army advance through Belgium to France.

And yes that happened during the Schlieffen's plan. But all that happened in the Belgum. The BEF helped the Belgian Army that was retreating because of the German's attack. Although the BEF stopped the German units at Mons , the French Army was defeatad at the Charleroi town. The Charleroi town is located east of the Mons in distance of about 50 km ( 24 miles ). Therefore the BEF and French Army had to retreat. Just Germans were continuing the attack through the Charleroi.

The last point happened in France. The Marne River is in France.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 8, 2018)

so BEF retreat from Mons is wrong, it's Belgium that retreated?? im confused. First battle with BED was at mons, Belgium, 23 August 1914, BEF retreat mons? Angel of mons drag BEF away from fighting, German army advance through France ..Retreat of the French Army and BEF reached the Marne River – September 1914. Am i on the right lines, and this was as the germans went through Belgium to get to France in a circle to Paris?


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## Wurger (Dec 8, 2018)

No Alec. the retreat of the BEF from the Mons is correct. The Mons is a town in Belgium. The town is located near the Belgium-France borderline. So the battle of Mons was in Belguim. Although the BEF stopped the Germans attack there, the Brits had to retreat. Then Germans advanced and soon reached the France territory.

The Angels of Mons is a legend only. There is no proof there were real people who helped the BEF soldiers with fighting while retreating.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 8, 2018)

oh so as the Germans began the schliffen plan through Belgium, they met the BEF at Mons near the Belgian border, then what, the BEF retreated, had they attacked the Germans much?

How should the wording in my list go?


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## Wurger (Dec 8, 2018)

Yes. it was exactly you said. The BEF fought well and caused disproportionate casualties on the numerically superior Germans.

So you may word it in the way..

The first battle of the BEF – 23 August, Belgium, Mons
The BEF stopped the Germans advance and caused a lot of casualties on Germans.
The battle at Mons was a tactic victory but the BEF had to retreat from Mons.
Creating the legend the Angels of Mons


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## Alecras234 (Dec 8, 2018)

The first battle of the BEF - Belguim, Mons, 23 August 1914.

Retreat of the BEF from Mons.

Creating of the legend of the ‘Angels of Mons’

Germans advancing.

September 1914 - retreating of the French Army and BEF reached the Marne River. Where are the French army retreating to?


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## Alecras234 (Dec 8, 2018)

sorry only just seen your message, shall i use this instead or aswel as? 
The first battle of the BEF – 23 August, Belgium, Mons
The BEF stopped the Germans advance and caused a lot of casualties on Germans.
The battle at Mons was a tactic victory but the BEF had to retreat from Mons.
Creating the legend the Angels of Mons


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## Wurger (Dec 8, 2018)

Instead...

the full list of these points ...

The first battle of the BEF – 23 August 1914 , Belgium, Mons
The BEF stopped the Germans advance and caused a lot of casualties on Germans.
The battle at Mons was a tactic victory but the BEF had to retreat from Mons.
Creating the legend of the Angels of Mons
German army advance through Belgium to France
September 1914 - the retreating French Army and BEF reached the Marne River.
General Joseph Gallieni - the Chief of Paris garrison and defence of the fortress.



> Where are the French army retreating to?



Both the French Army and BEF were retreating to the area east of Paris at the Marne River.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 9, 2018)

So all of those points I can use? I was thinking, was the battle of Mona fraught whilst the Germans were trying to cross from Belgium into France following the Schlieffen plan? The French and BEF retreated when more German forces came


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## Wurger (Dec 9, 2018)

Yes you can use all of them.

The battle of Mons was one of a couple of battles taken up at the beginning of the WW1. To be honest the battle wasn't of too siginificant meaning although it was a victory. The defeat of French units at the Charleroi caused the retreat of the combined allied forces. It wasn't until the first battle of Marne stopped he German advance.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 11, 2018)

Hi could you explain how you make those short facts as i am now looking at chapter 3 and i read the first 3 sentences, i don't know how to make a fact out of it.


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## Wurger (Dec 11, 2018)

OK. All depends on the info you want to put into a such sentence. For instance.. There you are the sentence about the BEF and its first battle. So I decided to put it into the short point.

"The first major confrontation between the Great Powers took place in the Belgium town of Mons on 23 August; Britain’s first battle on mainland Europe since Waterloo almost a century before."

The sentence above says that the first battle " took place in the Belgium town of Mons ". Also there is the date for the battle - 23 August. Additionally, although the sentence doesn't provide the info that it was the BEF battle but it says " Britain's first battle on mainland Europe " . Because there wasn't any other British Army in the mainland Europe at that time, it was the BEF only.

So having all that info I wrote a short sentence "The first battle of the BEF – 23 August 1914 , Belgium, Mons"
And that's all. The next points were created in the same way with my intention of keeping the timeline order for the list of points..


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## Alecras234 (Dec 12, 2018)

hi im sorry, im looking at the beginning of chapter 3, and im not sure how to word it. The Russians went into eastern Prussia and the Germans were led by 2 generals. That doesnt sound right.

War had begun on the Eastern Front. Two Russian armies bore down into East Prussia, while the German army was led by the formidable duo of Generals Paul von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff. The Germans, in full possession of Russian plans, decimated the first Russian army. ‘The tsar trusted me,’ wailed the Russian commander, Alexander Samsonov. ‘How can I ever face him again?’ He didn’t – he walked into a nearby wood and shot himself. The second Russian army fared no better.


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## Wurger (Dec 12, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> hi im sorry, im looking at the beginning of chapter 3, and im not sure how to word it. The Russians went into eastern Prussia and the Germans were led by 2 generals. That doesnt sound right.



Why it doesn't? All is correct and sounds OK. Paul von Hindenburg was the commander of the 8th Army while Erich Ludendorf was the Chief of Staff of the 8th Army. So they both were the German commanding officers there.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 12, 2018)

Shall i say, the Russians went into Eastern Prussia in and say when, the book doesnt say when it was but shall i say it like that? Then another fact, German Army was led by 2 generals and say who and when??


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## Wurger (Dec 12, 2018)

Yes that's a good idea Alec.. the points may be worded like these below..

17 August 1914 - Russian the 1st Army went into Eastern Prussia from the East.
19 August 1914 - Russian the 2nd Army attacked the Eastern Prussia from the South.
22 August 1914 - Gen. Paul von Hindenburg became the commander of the German 8th Army
22 August 1914 - Gen. Erich Ludendorf became the Chief of Staff of the German 8th Army.
26-27 August 1914 - the German 8th Army attacked the Russian 2nd Army.
28-29 August 1914 - the battle at Grunwald ( Tannenberg ), the German victory.
29/30 August 1914 - the commander of the Russian 2nd Army, Gen. Alexander Samsonov committed suicide.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 16, 2018)

hi these shorts facts are good, they help me learn. I know when the battle of mons was but i don't know much about what happened. Here's what i've memorized, do i need to know more about the battle? i like learning

The first battle of the BEF – 23 August 1914 , Belgium, Mons
The BEF stopped the Germans advance and caused a lot of casualties on Germans.
The battle at Mons was a tactic victory but the BEF had to retreat from Mons.
Creating the legend of the Angels of Mons
German army advance through Belgium to France
September 1914 - the retreating French Army and BEF reached the Marne River.
.
Were bridges destroyed so the Germans couldn't cross the river to where the BEF were?


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## Wurger (Dec 16, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> ... do i need to know more about the battle?



It is up to you only. However I don't think you need to know more.



Alecras234 said:


> Were bridges destroyed so the Germans couldn't cross the river to where the BEF were?



To be honest I don't remind myself anything about destroyed bridges. But for sure Germans used the some of the crossing stuff or built their own bridges.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 16, 2018)

can you help me with this please? 
The Germans advanced through France but were rapidly running out of steam, too exhausted to maintain the momentum. By early September they had reached the River Marne, only thirty miles north of Paris. The military commander of Paris, General Joseph Gallieni, was old enough to remember 1871 when the Prussians, Germany’s predecessors, had besieged the capital to the point of starvation. He had no intention of allowing the Germans anywhere near Paris again. After three days of fighting at the Marne, the Germans looked poised to break through the French and British forces, and onto Paris. Gallieni was to send reinforcements but while he had the troops he had no means to transport them

i thought i could say, the germans swept through France and fought the BEF and the French again at the river marne. That's too long, so i could say the germans fought the BEF and French army at the battle of the river marne by September 1914, can you word it better?


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## Wurger (Dec 16, 2018)

Gen. Galleni sent reinforcements using the Paris taxicabs.
The battle of Marne - 5-9 September 1914.
The French Army and BEF stopped the German's advance.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 16, 2018)

is that this bit? 
In a flash of ingenuity, he seized every available Parisian taxi – 600 of them – crammed each one full of soldiers and sent them on their way to meet the army of the French commander-in-chief, General Joseph Joffre. The arrival of Gallieni’s taxis saved the day. It was on the River Marne that the Schlieffen Plan came to a shuddering halt. Paris was safe and now it was the turn of the Germans to retreat. They fell back, forty miles north, to the River Aisne where they stopped and dug in. The Allies tried to dislodge the Germans from their defensive positions but, failing to do so, began to dig their own trenches. General Joffre moved part of his force northwards of the Aisne to try and

So shall i say, first battle of marne 5 - 9 september 1914, 
The French Army and BEF stopped the German's advance, How, when?


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## Wurger (Dec 16, 2018)

These three points in my post #257 are my replay to your posts #256 and 258.



> The French Army and BEF stopped the German's advance, How, when?



just at the battle of Marne ...


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## N4521U (Dec 16, 2018)

My goodness.....
I've been reading thru as many posts as I could understand, Few.
I've loved aircraft for too many years, I am 75 and I learn by Group Builds.
With every Group Build I learn a little more. I find it difficult to force feed myself with history.
I used to hope it wouldn't repeat itself, but man seams unwilling to give it a chance to rest.
It's just over and over.
So I keep building, and learning little by little.

I admire your tenacity. 
Cheers from Australia mate.
Bill


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## Alecras234 (Dec 18, 2018)

ok this is what i've got so far on mons and marne
The first battle of the BEF – 23 August 1914 , Belgium, Mons

The BEF stopped the Germans advance and caused a lot of casualties on Germans.

The battle at Mons was a tactic victory but the BEF had to retreat from Mons.

Creating the legend of the Angels of Mons

German army advance through Belgium to France

The retreating French Army and BEF reached the Marne River - September 5 – 9 1914

The French Army and BEF stopped the German advancing further than River Marne

Gen. Gallieni sent more French troops to River Marne by taxi

Does this sound ok?


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## Wurger (Dec 18, 2018)

Generally it sounds good but the order ( timeline ) is incorrect. Also one point is wrong. I edited that. It should be like that ..


The first battle of the BEF – 23 August 1914 , Belgium, Mons

The BEF stopped the Germans advance and caused a lot of casualties on Germans.

The battle at Mons was a tactic victory but the BEF had to retreat from Mons.

Creating the legend of the Angels of Mons

German army advance through Belgium to France

The retreating French Army and BEF reached the Marne River.

Gen. Gallieni sent more French troops to River Marne by taxi

The first battle of Marne - 5-9 September 1914

The French Army and BEF stopped the German advancing further than River Marne


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## Alecras234 (Dec 18, 2018)

like this?
The first battle of the BEF – 23 August 1914 , Belgium, Mons
The BEF stopped the Germans advance and caused a lot of casualties on Germans.
The battle at Mons was a tactic victory but the BEF had to retreat from Mons.
Creating the legend of the Angels of Mons
German army advance through Belgium to France
The retreating French Army and BEF reached the Marne River.
Gen. Gallieni sent more French troops to River Marne by taxi
The battle of Marne - 5-9 September 1914
The French Army and BEF stopped the German advancing further than River Marne

Was Gallieni a general? it says in my book he was a military commander, are these facts worded correctly?


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## Wurger (Dec 18, 2018)

These points are correct now and all is worded properly..

And yes Joseph Gallieni was a General and later was promoted to the Marshal of France.. He died in May 1916. The military commander is a name of his function. Usually the words are used to say that it was a job for a soldier but not for a civilian. Mostly the military commander is a senior officer like Colonel, Genaral, Admiral etc... however it may be a Major, Captain or other soldiers of any rank depending on a level of responsibility.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 18, 2018)

is this also ok?

Battle plan designed by Alfred Von Shlieffen – 1905
Germany planned on attacking France via Belgium
Shlieffen plan was intended to avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks
Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913
Shlieffen plan used in 1914 
The BEF – 80,000 men
August 2 1914, Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused
August 3 1914, Germany attacked Belgium
August 4 1914, Britain declared war on Germany


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## Wurger (Dec 18, 2018)

Yes it is OK too.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 26, 2018)

Hi merry Christmas to you. Im trying to write short facts on Assassination of Franz Ferdinand from my book but im stuck. This is what i've done, 
Archduke Franz Ferdinand – Heir to Austria Hungary Empire
Franz Ferdinand and his wife went to inspect Army – 28 June 1914
Austria Hungary annexed Bosnia
Gavrilo Princip shot Franz Ferdinand and his wife

Bosnia had been a recent and unwilling addition to the Habsburg Empire. Resentful Bosnian Serbs dreamt of freedom and incorporation into the nation of Serbia. Nationalistic groups formed, determined to use violence to strike terror at the heart of the Austrian– Hungarian empire. One such group,
the sinisterly named ‘Black Hand’, included among its number a nineteen-year-old named Gavrilo Princip. It was in Sarajevo that Princip would change the world. Princip and a handful of his Black Hand comrades arrived, each armed with a bomb and, in the event of failure, a vial of cyanide. They joined, at various intervals, the throng of onlookers lined along a 6-km route and waited for the six-car motorcade to come into view. The first two would-be assassins lost their nerve, while the third managed to throw his bomb causing injury to a driver but leaving the Archduke and his wife unharmed. Racked with a sense of failure, Princip trudged to a nearby tavern. 
The Archduke, having delivered a speech, decided to visit the wounded driver in hospital. On his way, his driver took a wrong turning down a one-way street, a street named after Franz Ferdinand’s uncle the emperor, Franz Joseph, along which was a tavern. Princip, astonished to see the royal car, acted on
impulse. Jumping onto the running board as the driver tried to engage the reverse gear, he fired two shots. Mortally wounded, Franz Ferdinand’s last words were: ‘Sophie, stay alive for the children’. It was not to be. The Archduke and his wife died together. It was their fourteenth wedding anniversary.

what can i say for why Gavrilo Princip shot him?


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## Wurger (Dec 26, 2018)

All that points sound good. However the point with "Austria Hungary annexed Bosnia" should be the first or the second one of the list. The annexion of the Bośnia was in 1908 officially. Actually the area was incorporated into the Austria-Hungary much earlier. It happened in 1878. So the order should be ..

Austria Hungary annexed Bosnia
Archduke Franz Ferdinand – Heir to Austria Hungary Empire
Franz Ferdinand and his wife went to inspect Army – 28 June 1914
Gavrilo Princip shot Franz Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo.



Alecras234 said:


> What can i say for why Gavrilo Princip shot him?




Gavrilo Princip was one of a couple of assassins sent to Sarajevo. The reason for that action was the Bosnian Serbs' dreams of being a part of the independent Serbia.
So you may add the point " The Bosinian Serbs' dreams of being the independent country."

The list may look like the one below.

Austria Hungary annexed Bosnia
The Bosinian Serbs' dreams of being the independent country
Archduke Franz Ferdinand – Heir to Austria Hungary Empire
Franz Ferdinand and his wife went to inspect Army – 28 June 1914
Gavrilo Princip killed Franz Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo

Oh.. btw.. Merry Christmas and Happy Nwe Year !!! Loads of the Health.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 27, 2018)

Can I put Bosnian Serbs wanted an independent Bosnia from austria Hungary?


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## Wurger (Dec 27, 2018)

To be honest the Bosnian Serbs wated to belong to the independent Serbia rather than getting the independent Bosnia.. Bosnia was the area of the Austria-Hungary that was populated by Serbs mostly. So that was the reason.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 27, 2018)

Hi sorry could you explain the beginning of ww1 I'm looking at this site and I'm not understanding it. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1kVXVDjc-psgdz2Btu_tN4 how can I put these into short facts?


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## Wurger (Dec 27, 2018)

Humm .. what you can't understand? All seems to be explained on the site correctly.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 28, 2018)

I feel there's too much information and I feel I'm missing bits of information. Should I stick with what it says in my book? How do I put this into a short fact? Bosnian Serbs wanted to belong to the independent Serbia rather than getting the independent Bosnia.. Bosnia was the area of the Austria-Hungary that was populated by Serbs mostly. So


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## Wurger (Dec 28, 2018)

So.. it can be like this..

Austria Hungary annexed Bosnia
The Bosinian Serbs' dreams of belonging to the independent Serbia
Archduke Franz Ferdinand – Heir to Austria Hungary Empire
Franz Ferdinand and his wife went to inspect Army – 28 June 1914
Gavrilo Princip killed Franz Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo


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## Alecras234 (Dec 28, 2018)

Like this?


Austria Hungary annexed Bosnia
The Bosinian Serbs wanted Serbia to be independent of Austria Hungary.
Archduke Franz Ferdinand – Heir to Austria Hungary Empire
Franz Ferdinand and his wife went to inspect Army – 28 June 1914
Gavrilo Princip killed Franz Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo


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## Wurger (Dec 28, 2018)

"The Bosinian Serbs wanted Serbia to be independent of Austria Hungary."

Nope.. The point is incorrect because the Serbia was independent country. So it has to be edited..

"The Bosinian Serbs wanted Bosnia to be independent of Austria Hungary."

And now it can be OK.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 29, 2018)

what is a Bosnian Serb, someone from Serbia?


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## Wurger (Dec 29, 2018)

The Bosnian Serb is a Serb who lives in Bosnia.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 29, 2018)

was Gavrilo Princip Bosnian serb ?


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## Wurger (Dec 29, 2018)

Yes he was.


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## ARTESH (Dec 29, 2018)

Alecras234 said:


> it says in my book he was a military commander, are these facts worded correctly?


Military Commander is a title and place of assignment of Generals and Officers of Army, mainly during war or martial law . Mostly Capital, big cities, strategically important places like Terminals, Airfields, Railway, Post, and any other places, if needed. During his assignment, Military Commander is most Senior person at area.
Depends on Political , Military , Strategic importance , His rank can varies from Warrant Officer to Field Marshal (or 4 star General, in most of today's ranking systems)


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## Alecras234 (Dec 30, 2018)

Here is my list of facts so far, do they look ok?


Battle plan designed by Alfred Von Shlieffen – 1905

Germany planned on attacking France via Belgium

Shlieffen plan was intended to avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks

Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913

Shlieffen plan used in 1914

The BEF – 80,000 men


August 2 1914, Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused

August 3 1914, Germany attacked Belgium

August 4 1914, Britain declared war on Germany



The first battle of the BEF – 23 August 1914 , Belgium, Mons
The BEF stopped the Germans advance and caused a lot of casualties on Germans.
Creating the legend of the Angels of Mons
German army advance through Belgium to France
The retreating French Army and BEF reached the Marne River.
Gen. Gallieni sent more French troops to River Marne by taxi
The battle of Marne - 5-9 September 1914
The French Army and BEF stopped the German advancing further than River Marne



Austria Hungary annexed Bosnia
The Bosnian Serbs wanted Bosnia to be independent of Austria Hungary.
Gavrilo Princip - Bosnian Serb
Archduke Franz Ferdinand – Heir to Austria Hungary Empire
Franz Ferdinand and his wife went to inspect Army – 28 June 1914
Gavrilo Princip killed Franz Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo


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## Wurger (Dec 30, 2018)

Yes these look OK. However the last part should be put somewhere at the beginning. The death of the Archduke Ferdinand is consider to be the reason for the start of the WW1.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 30, 2018)

Like this?

Austria Hungary annexed Bosnia
The Bosnian Serbs wanted Bosnia to be independent of Austria Hungary.
Gavrilo Princip - Bosnian Serb
Archduke Franz Ferdinand – Heir to Austria Hungary Empire
Franz Ferdinand and his wife went to inspect Army – 28 June 1914
Gavrilo Princip killed Franz Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo

Battle plan designed by Alfred Von Shlieffen – 1905

Germany planned on attacking France via Belgium

Shlieffen plan was intended to avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks

Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913

Shlieffen plan used in 1914

The BEF – 80,000 men


August 2 1914, Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused

August 3 1914, Germany attacked Belgium

August 4 1914, Britain declared war on Germany



The first battle of the BEF – 23 August 1914 , Belgium, Mons
The BEF stopped the Germans advance and caused a lot of casualties on Germans.
Creating the legend of the Angels of Mons
German army advance through Belgium to France
The retreating French Army and BEF reached the Marne River.
Gen. Gallieni sent more French troops to River Marne by taxi
The battle of Marne - 5-9 September 1914
The French Army and BEF stopped the German advancing further than River Marne


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## Wurger (Dec 30, 2018)

Yes that's in that way...
Also you may add a couple of additional points to the section about beginning of the war. The info there can be who else declared the war and when ...
Also I would change the order of the second and third points in your first section...
Additionally , the point of the number of the BEF soldiers should be moved to the section about the BEF...
I have edited it for you , see below..


Austria Hungary annexed Bosnia
The Bosnian Serbs wanted Bosnia to be independent of Austria Hungary.
Gavrilo Princip - Bosnian Serb
Archduke Franz Ferdinand – Heir to Austria Hungary Empire
Franz Ferdinand and his wife went to inspect Army – 28 June 1914
Gavrilo Princip killed Franz Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo
(here two or three points more )

Battle plan designed by Alfred Von Shlieffen – 1905
Shlieffen plan was intended to avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks
Germany planned on attacking France via Belgium
Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913
Shlieffen plan used in 1914

August 2 1914, Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused
August 3 1914, Germany attacked Belgium
August 4 1914, Britain declared war on Germany


The BEF – 80,000 men
The first battle of the BEF – 23 August 1914 , Belgium, Mons
The BEF stopped the Germans advance and caused a lot of casualties on Germans.
Creating the legend of the Angels of Mons
German army advance through Belgium to France
The retreating French Army and BEF reached the Marne River.
Gen. Gallieni sent more French troops to River Marne by taxi
The battle of Marne - 5-9 September 1914
The French Army and BEF stopped the German advancing further than River Marne


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## Alecras234 (Dec 30, 2018)

do i need the extra points? what are they


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## Wurger (Dec 30, 2018)

It seems yes . These can be ...

23 July 1914 Austra-Hungary sent Serbia ultimatum.
24 July 1914 Russia guaranteed Serbia help.
28 July 1914 Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia.
29-30 July 1914 Russia started mobilization.
1 August 1914 Fance started mobilization.
1 August 1914 Germany declared war on Russia.
3 August 1914 Germany declared war on France.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 31, 2018)

Like this? There are a few points i don't understand. Thanks for helping me to learn.

Austria Hungary annexed Bosnia
The Bosnian Serbs wanted Bosnia to be independent of Austria Hungary.
Gavrilo Princip - Bosnian Serb
Archduke Franz Ferdinand – Heir to Austria Hungary Empire
Franz Ferdinand and his wife went to inspect Army – 28 June 1914
Gavrilo Princip killed Franz Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo
23 July 1914 Austria-Hungary sent Serbia ultimatum.
28 July 1914 Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia.
29-30 July 1914 Russia started mobilization (was the mobilization against Serbia)?
1 August 1914 France started mobilization. Against who?
1 August 1914 Germany declared war on Russia. why?
3 August 1914 Germany declared war on France. why?

Battle plan designed by Alfred Von Shlieffen – 1905
Shlieffen plan was intended to avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks
Germany planned on attacking France via Belgium
Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913
Shlieffen plan used in 1914

August 2 1914, Germany demanded access into Belgium and being refused
August 3 1914, Germany attacked Belgium
August 4 1914, Britain declared war on Germany


The BEF – 80,000 men
The first battle of the BEF – 23 August 1914 , Belgium, Mons
The BEF stopped the Germans advance and caused a lot of casualties on Germans.
Creating the legend of the Angels of Mons
German army advance through Belgium to France
The retreating French Army and BEF reached the Marne River.
Gen. Gallieni sent more French troops to River Marne by taxi
The battle of Marne - 5-9 September 1914
The French Army and BEF stopped the German advancing further than River Marne


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## Wurger (Dec 31, 2018)

Yes that's the correct order now.

To answer your questions ...

"29-30 July 1914 Russia started mobilization " - was the mobilization against Serbia?

No, the mobilization that was started on the 29 July 1914 was just because Russia wanted to help Serbia. The mobilization was against the Austria-Hungary initially. However , on the 30th July 1914 Russians started the general mobilization though. In reponse to that the Germany threatened Russia with a war if they wouldn't cancel the mobilization.

"1 August 1914 France started mobilization." - Against who?

The French mobilization was started because of the German's threatening Russia with a war. So it was against the Germany.

"1 August 1914 Germany declared war on Russia." - why?

Because Russia didn't stop and cancel the mobilization and got ready for a war..

"3 August 1914 Germany declared war on France." - why?

Because the France started the mobilization and was almost ready for war. Also because the France and the Russia were the allies.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 31, 2018)

i think i need to do a list of what countries had alliances with who, it's all very confusing.


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## Wurger (Dec 31, 2018)

That's true Alec. The pre-war system of alliences was very complex.


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## Alecras234 (Dec 31, 2018)

which facts can i remove from my list that aren't important so that i can learn them better, or should i just learn dates?


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## Wurger (Dec 31, 2018)

I think all of them are important so you don't need to delete any of them. But the dates can be omitted if you want. However the points without the dates may lose the timeline


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## Alecras234 (Jan 1, 2019)

Happy new year. im confused on what to learn from the list, theres so many points.


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## Wurger (Jan 1, 2019)

Happy New Year Alec.

I think it is up to you only which facts you will learn. The most important thging is to keep the timeline. If you can do that the dates aren't needed, I would say.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 1, 2019)

im learning these for now, 

Austria Hungary annexed Bosnia
The Bosnian Serbs wanted Bosnia to be independent of Austria Hungary.
Gavrilo Princip - Bosnian Serb
Archduke Franz Ferdinand – Heir to Austria Hungary Empire
Franz Ferdinand and his wife were shot dead in Sarajevo – 28 June 1914
Gavrilo Princip shot Franz Ferdinand and his wife

Should i type things like Austria Hungary and Germany helped in a war with Russia and Serbia, or something like that? and who the Triple Alliance were


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## Wurger (Jan 1, 2019)

Alecras234 said:


> Should i type things like Austria Hungary and Germany helped in a war with Russia and Serbia, or something like that? and who the Triple Alliance were



No I don't think you should. The info is in the next points of your list. 
Just a note only .. neither Austria-Hungary nor Germany helped in war with Russia and Serbia. That's was the Austria-Hungary that started the war declared it on Serbia. They did that because Germany was friendly to Austria-Hungary and thay had the Germans' support. Contray to that the Serbia had the alliance with Russia.

The Triple Alliance was a secret treaty signed by Germany, Italy and Austria-Hungary against Russia. This pact caused that Russia signed treaty with France and became allies. In that way Germany was found itself between two hostile countries that had the alliance. Therefore the Schlieffen's plan was created. In 1915 the Triple Alliance was left by Italy.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 1, 2019)

i've typed out the facts as questions and answers because i feel it'll help me to remember but a few of them i can't think of how to put into questions, like why was Franz Ferdinand killed? was it because The Bosnian Serbs wanted Bosnia to be independent of Austria Hungary.

What year did Austria Hungary annex Bosnia? 1908.
The Bosnian Serbs wanted Bosnia to be independent of Austria Hungary.
Gavrilo Princip - Bosnian Serb
When were Franz Ferdinand and his wife shot? - 28 June 1914
Who shot Franz Ferdinand and his wife? Gavrilo Princip

When did Austria-Hungary send Serbia an ultimatum? 23 July 1914
When did Austria-Hungary declare war on Serbia? 28 July 1914
When did Russia start mobilization to help Serbia? 29 July 1914
When did France start mobilization against Germany? 1 August 1914
When did Germany declare war on Russia? 1 August 1914
When did Germany declare war on France? 3 August 1914


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## Wurger (Jan 1, 2019)

Alecras234 said:


> ... i can't think of how to put into questions, like why was Franz Ferdinand killed? was it because The Bosnian Serbs wanted Bosnia to be independent of Austria Hungary.



Yes that's was the reason. So it can be ..

Why was Franz Ferdinand killed? Because Bosnian Serbs wanted to be independent of Austria-Hungary.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 1, 2019)

do these sound ok?

When did Austria-Hungary declare war on Serbia? 28 July 1914
When did Russia start mobilization to help Serbia? 29 July 1914
When did France start mobilization against Germany? 1 August 1914
When did Germany declare war on Russia? 1 August 1914
When did Germany declare war on France? 3 August 1914


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## Wurger (Jan 1, 2019)

Yes, that's OK.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 18, 2019)

So here i could say, who led the german army into East Prussia in? in what year?

War had begun on the Eastern Front. Two Russian armies bore down into East Prussia, while the German army was led by the formidable duo of Generals Paul von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff. The Germans, in full possession of Russian plans, decimated the first Russian army.


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## Wurger (Jan 18, 2019)

Yes.. the Gen Hindenburg and Ludendorff...

in what year ? ... 1914... we have already been discussing that. See our posts 250 to 253 on the page 13 of the thread. In my post 253 you will find more and the answer too. Below is the link to tha page no.13

ww2 help


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## Alecras234 (Jan 18, 2019)

yes im trying to understand how to put the question, Who led the german army into East Prussia in 1914? Does that sound ok instead of saying, 

22 August 1914 - Gen.Paul von Hindenburg became the commander of the 8th Army
22 August 1914 - Gen Erich Ludendorf became the Chief of Staff of the 8th Army.


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## Wurger (Jan 18, 2019)

It sounds OK.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 19, 2019)

How do these sound please? Taken from paragraph of my book. im not sure about them

How many Russian armies went into East Prussia in 1914? Two
Who led the German army into eastern Prussia in 1914? Gen Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff 
who decimated the first Russian army in 1914? Germany
Who was Russian commander in 1914? Alexander Samsonov
How did Alexander Samsonov die? Shot himself
Where did Alexander Samsonov shoot himself? in a forest

War had begun on the Eastern Front. Two Russian armies bore down into East Prussia, while the German army was led by the formidable duo of Generals Paul von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff. The Germans, in full possession of Russian plans, decimated the first Russian army. ‘The tsar trusted me,’ wailed the Russian commander, Alexander Samsonov. ‘How can I ever face him again?’ He didn’t – he walked into a nearby wood and shot himself. The second Russian army fared no better.


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## Wurger (Jan 19, 2019)

It sounds OK Alec.

However Gen. Alexander Samsonov was the commander of the Russian 2nd Army only. The commander of the Russian 1st Army was Gen. Paul Rennenkampf. So may be it would be worth to add the info to the fourth point.

"Who was Russian commander of the 2nd Army in 1914? Gen. Alexander Samsonov"


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## Alecras234 (Jan 20, 2019)

Do these make sense vor can they be worded differently?

How many Russian armies went into East Prussia in 1914? Two
Who led the German army into eastern Prussia in 1914? Gen Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff 
who decimated the first Russian army in 1914? Germany


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## Wurger (Jan 20, 2019)

These are OK.

Just a note.. initailly the German 8th Army was leading by gen. Maximilian von Prittwitz. Because of his incompetence he was fired on 22 August 1914 with his Chief of the Staff together. On the same day Hindenburg and Ludendorff were assigned to be the new Commander and the Chief of Staff of the 8th Army.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 20, 2019)

Like this? Shall i delete the first point?

How many Russian armies went into East Prussia in 1914? Two
Who led the German army into eastern Prussia in 1914? Gen Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff 
who decimated the first Russian army in 1914? Germany
Who was Russian commander of the 2nd Army in 1914? Gen. Alexander Samsonov
How did Alexander Samsonov die? Shot himself
Where did Alexander Samsonov shoot himself? in a forest


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## Wurger (Jan 20, 2019)

That's OK There is no need to delete of any points. Just perfect !.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 22, 2019)

Wurger said:


> Yes that's in that way...
> Also you may add a couple of additional points to the section about beginning of the war. The info there can be who else declared the war and when ...
> Also I would change the order of the second and third points in your first section...
> Additionally , the point of the number of the BEF soldiers should be moved to the section about the BEF...
> ...




Does this sound ok?

What year did Austria Hungary annex Bosnia? 1908
Why was Franz Ferdinand killed? Because Bosnian Serbs weren’t happy about being part of Austria Hungary.
What nationality was Gavrilo Princip - Bosnian Serb
When was Franz Ferdinand and his wife shot? - 28 June 1914
Who shot Franz Ferdinand and his wife? Gavrilo Princip


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## Wurger (Jan 22, 2019)

Yes that's OK.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 22, 2019)

sorry is this right? Why was Franz Ferdinand killed? Because Bosnian Serbs weren’t happy about being part of Austria Hungary.


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## Wurger (Jan 22, 2019)

Yes Alec. This is right.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 23, 2019)

im getting muddled with all the alliances of ww1. If Austria Hungary declared war on Serbia on 28 July 1914, Russia helped Serbia by attacking Austria Hungary, is that right? Then Austria Hungary asked Germany to help the fight against Russia. Can i do a Question and answer on the alliances to remember who fought who?


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## DBII (Jan 23, 2019)

Sorry, I late to the thread. I like military maps and overlays. If you learn the symbols, a map will give you lots of non verbal information in a simple format. It may be easier to learn.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 23, 2019)

Look at this you mean?


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## Wurger (Jan 23, 2019)

Alecras234 said:


> .. If Austria Hungary declared war on Serbia on 28 July 1914, Russia helped Serbia by attacking Austria Hungary, is that right?



It is right.



Alecras234 said:


> .. then Austria Hungary asked Germany to help the fight against Russia.



Nope. The Austria-Hungary had had the alliance earlier. Just after the attack on the Archduke Franz Ferdinad, the Germany announced the support for the Austria-Hungary. So having the German's backup the Austria-Hungary sent the Serbia the ultimatum.



Alecras234 said:


> ..Can i do a Question and answer on the alliances to remember who fought who?



Of course you can if you want.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 27, 2019)

Do these sound ok or should i not memorize the last three as they are the same dates?

When did Austria-Hungary send Serbia an ultimatum? 23 July 1914
When did Austria-Hungary declare war on Serbia? 28 July 1914
When did Russia start mobilization to help Serbia? 29 July 1914
When did Germany demand access into Belgium and was refused - August 2 1914
When did Germany attack Belgium - August 3 1914,
When did Britain declare war on Germany - August 4 1914

When did France start mobilization against Germany? 1 August 1914
When did Germany declare war on Russia? 1 August 1914
When did Germany declare war on France? 3 August 1914


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## Wurger (Jan 27, 2019)

All sounds good Alec. regarding the same dates.. just these events hppened on the same day. For instance , France started the mobilization and Germany declared the war on Russia. Also Germany declared the war on France and attacked the Belgium on the same day. It seems that both are quite important.
So I would make the layout of the list in the way.. just to keep the chronological order.

When did Austria-Hungary send Serbia an ultimatum? 23 July 1914
When did Austria-Hungary declare war on Serbia? 28 July 1914
When did Russia start mobilization to help Serbia? 29 July 1914
When did Germany declare war on Russia? 1 August 1914
When did France start mobilization against Germany? 1 August 1914
When did Germany demand access into Belgium and was refused - August 2 1914
When did Germany declare war on France? 3 August 1914
When did Germany attack Belgium - August 3 1914,
When did Britain declare war on Germany - August 4 1914


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## Alecras234 (Jan 29, 2019)

i've got these facts saved on my computer, how can i test myself? im looking now at the Question, When did Austria Hungary send Serbia an ultimatum, i know the answer is 23 July 1914 but how can i test myself? i have 13 i want to memorize.


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## Wurger (Jan 29, 2019)

Let somebody asking you a question and you can try to answer it without looking at the list with the responses.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 31, 2019)

im adding to my list, does this sound ok so far?

What year did Austria Hungary annex Bosnia? 1908
Why was Franz Ferdinand killed? Because he wanted to free Bosnia from the control of Austria Hungary.
When was Franz Ferdinand and his wife shot? - 28 June 1914
Who shot Franz Ferdinand and his wife? Gavrilo Princip
Where was Franz Ferdinand Assassinated? Sarajevo


When did Austria-Hungary send Serbia an ultimatum? 23 July 1914
When did Austria-Hungary declare war on Serbia? 28 July 1914
When did Germany declare war on Russia? 1 August 1914
When did Germany demand access into Belgium and was refused - August 2 1914
When did Germany declare war on France? 3 August 1914
When did Britain declare war on Germany - August 4 1914


Who designed The Shlieffen Plan? Alfred Von Shlieffen
When was The Shlieffen Plan created? 1905
When was The Shlieffen plan used? 1914
What was The Shlieffen plan intended to do? Avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks
How did Germany plan on attacking France? Through Belgium
When did Alfred Von Shlieffen die? 1913


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## Wurger (Jan 31, 2019)

Alecras234 said:


> Why was Franz Ferdinand killed? Because *he* wanted to free Bosnia from the control of Austria Hungary.



Alec, the point above is wrong. Franz Ferdinand wasn't killed because he wanted to set Bosnia free from the Austria-Hungary control. The Archduke was a member of the Austrai-Hungary Royal Family. The reason he was killed for, was the Bosnian Serbs' desire to be free people and become the Bosnia a part of Serbia independet country.

So the correct point should be..

Why was Franz Ferdinand killed? Because *Bosnian Serbs* wanted to free Bosnia from the control of Austria Hungary.


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## Alecras234 (Jan 31, 2019)

like this? does the list sound ok?

What year did Austria Hungary annex Bosnia? 1908
Why was Franz Ferdinand killed? Because Bosnian Serbs wanted to free Bosnia from the control of Austria Hungary.
When was Franz Ferdinand and his wife shot? - 28 June 1914
Who shot Franz Ferdinand and his wife? Gavrilo Princip
Where was Franz Ferdinand Assassinated? Sarajevo


When did Austria-Hungary send Serbia an ultimatum? 23 July 1914
When did Austria-Hungary declare war on Serbia? 28 July 1914
When did Germany declare war on Russia? 1 August 1914
When did Germany demand access into Belgium and was refused - August 2 1914
When did Germany declare war on France? 3 August 1914
When did Britain declare war on Germany - August 4 1914


Who designed The Shlieffen Plan? Alfred Von Shlieffen
When was The Shlieffen Plan created? 1905
When was The Shlieffen plan used? 1914
What was The Shlieffen plan intended to do? Avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks
How did Germany plan on attacking France? Through Belgium
When did Alfred Von Shlieffen die? 1913


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## Wurger (Jan 31, 2019)

Now these are OK.


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## Alecras234 (Feb 3, 2019)

What can i say about the French and German armies moving from Marne to the battle of Aisne? Am i right in thinking that the germans were pushed north of the Marne and the germans built a trench at Aisne where the French army built a trench aswel?

The Race to the Sea was a line of trenches built across France by german and french troops? why were the trenches made?


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## Wurger (Feb 3, 2019)

The Battle of Asine was the result of the Germa;s defeat at the Marne. The French Army together with the BEF forced German Army to retreat behind the Aisine river at about 70 km east where German soldiers prepared to the defense. They built a line of trenches there. The battle took place on 12–28 September 1914 and ended with the German's loss , so general Joffre ordered to stop the attack. Therefore the French Army and the BEF stopped and digged out their own line of trenches along the German's line. The fierce fights were lasting for two months yet without any advance for both fighting sides. Then the front line stabilized for a many next months.

The Race to the Sea wasn't a line of trenches built across France by german and french troops. The name describes reciprocal attempts by the Franco-British and German armies to envelop the northern flank of the opposing army through the northern France rather than an attempt to advance northwards to the sea. The outflanking attempts resulted in many encounter battles but neither side was able to gain a victory. 

If you want you may read alittle bit more here: Race to the Sea - Wikipedia


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## Alecras234 (Feb 3, 2019)

How do I say it? The race to the sea was?


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## Wurger (Feb 3, 2019)

It was a number of attempts/ battles for outflanking/ going around of an enemy made by the French Army or Germans. But any of these armies was able to get the victory.


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## Alecras234 (Feb 3, 2019)

Do these sound ok? 

How many soldiers made up the BEF? Around 80,000 men
When was the first battle of the BEF? 23 August 1914 ,
Where was the first battle of the BEF? Mons, Belgium
What armies were forced to retreat from the battle of Mons? BEF and French
Where did the BEF and French armies retreat to? Marne River
The battle of Marne - 5-9 September 1914
Gen. Gallieni sent more French troops to River Marne by taxi
The French Army and BEF stopped the German advancing further than River Marne


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## Wurger (Feb 3, 2019)

Yes these do.


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## Alecras234 (Feb 5, 2019)

These are all the facts i have, are they worded ok and do the sound good?

What year did Austria Hungary annex Bosnia? 1908
Why was Franz Ferdinand killed? Because Bosnian Serbs wanted to free Bosnia from the control of Austria Hungary.

When was Franz Ferdinand and his wife shot? - 28 June 1914

Who shot Franz Ferdinand and his wife? Gavrilo Princip

Where was Franz Ferdinand Assassinated? Sarajevo


When did Austria-Hungary send Serbia an ultimatum? 23 July 1914
When did Austria-Hungary declare war on Serbia? 28 July 1914
When did Germany declare war on Russia? 1 August 1914
When did Germany demand access into Belgium and was refused - August 2 1914
When did Germany declare war on France? 3 August 1914
When did Britain declare war on Germany - August 4 1914


Who created The Shlieffen Plan? Alfred Von Shlieffen

When was The Shlieffen Plan created? 1905

When was The Shlieffen plan used? 1914
Why was The Shlieffen plan created? To avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks
How did Germany plan on attacking France? Through Belgium



How many soldiers made up the BEF? Around 80,000 men
When and where was the first battle of Mons? 23 August 1914 , Mons, Belgium

What armies fought at the battle of Mons? BEF, French, Germans

What armies were forced to retreat from Mons? BEF, French

When was the battle of Marne - 5-9 September 1914
Who sent more French troops to River Marne by taxi? Gen. Gallieni


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## Wurger (Feb 5, 2019)

All sounds good Alec.


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## Alecras234 (Feb 5, 2019)

How can i say this in a shorter question and answer? 
Why was The Shlieffen plan created? To avoid a two front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks
Thanks


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## Wurger (Feb 5, 2019)

Why was The Shlieffen plan created? To avoid a two front war


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## Alecras234 (Feb 8, 2019)

Now that I've got various dates of battles and things thanks for your help. I was wandering, where would I find information on battles, how many fought, what arm is fought, what guns artilary was used?


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## Wurger (Feb 8, 2019)

Try the Wikipedia.


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## Alecras234 (Feb 9, 2019)

Hello mate, what does the term Race to the Sea mean? is it a 400 mile line of trenches? Also where did the Race to the Sea start, at which battle?


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## Wurger (Feb 9, 2019)

No it is not the 400 mile line of trenches. The term Race to the Sea is the name of all attempts to sourround an enemy by French Army or the German one.

I'm sure you remember the Battle of Marne. As a result the German advance in France was stopped. The AF and BEF forced the German Army to retreat east. They moved back to the Asine river line and made a line of trenches. French Army with the BEF together attacked but the German defence was very strong. So general Joffre ordered to stop the attack. The AF and BEF digged out their own trenches along the German's line.. Then both Armies ( I mean the French one + BEF and the German one ) tried to outflank the enemy alternately , going each time more and more north toward the sea. Each attack ended with stopping the enemy advance and digging trenches what was making the line of trenches longer going more and more to the north.
Well the answer to your question when the race was started can be ... the Battles of Marne and Asine were the prelude to the race. The first battle that started that was the Battle of Picardy, 22–26 September 1914.

I would say you should have a look at the Race to the Sea - Wikipedia


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## Alecras234 (Feb 9, 2019)

Germans. The Germans, now led by Erich von Falkenhayn, moved a comparable number of men to block Joffre’s manoeuvre. Joffre repeated his tactic – as did the Germans, each side constructing trenches as it went along. It developed in what became known as the ‘Race to the Sea’ as each army tried to out lap the other until they both hit the Channel. A similar charade extended the line of trenches south from the Aisne to the Swiss border.

How can i say What was race to the sea? Where did the race \to the sea start?.


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## Wurger (Feb 10, 2019)

The Race to the Sea was a number of attempts to outflank either Germans or Frenches. It started when the Battle of Asine ended.


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## Alecras234 (Feb 10, 2019)

What about, what was the race to the sea? A line of trenches. French and german armies tried to out lap the other until they both hit the channel.


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## Wurger (Feb 10, 2019)

Alec , I have already been expalained that to you three or more times what the race to the sea was.
It wasn't the line of trenches.
It was a series of attacks taken, either by the French Army or German one in order to out lap the enemy.
These attacks were taken until both opposit forces hit the coast of the channel.

So it should be :

What was the race to the sea? A series of the French and German attacks trying to out lap the other until they both hit the channel.


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## Alecras234 (Feb 28, 2019)

DBII said:


> Sorry, I late to the thread. I like military maps and overlays. If you learn the symbols, a map will give you lots of non verbal information in a simple format. It may be easier to learn.


Sounds interesting,, what do you mean?


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## DBII (Feb 28, 2019)

Alecras234 said:


> Sounds interesting,, what do you mean?


Google military map symbols. NATO has standard symbols. Units are a square. Pictures in the square tells the type. An x is infantry, x with tracks is mechanized infantry, tracks is armor and a cannon ball etc. Unit size is one top of the square. plt is ..., Company is l, bn is ll. Division is X. There is markings for battle positions, axies of attacks and supply routes. The complete battle can easily be placed on a series of maps.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 3, 2019)

Hi i have condensed my list. Does it sound ok?

What year did Austria Hungary annex Bosnia? 1908
Why was Franz Ferdinand killed? Because Bosnian Serbs wanted to be independent of Austria Hungary.
When was Franz Ferdinand and his wife shot? - 28 June 1914
Who shot Franz Ferdinand and his wife? Gavrilo Princip

When did Austria-Hungary declare war on Serbia? 28 July 1914
When did Germany demand access into Belgium? August 2 1914,
When did Germany attack Belgium? August 3 1914
When did Britain declared war on Germany? August 4 1914


Who created the Shlieffen Plan? Alfred Von Shlieffen 
What was the Shlieffen plan intended to do? Avoid a two front war 
Alfred Von Shlieffen died – 1913
Shlieffen plan used in 1914
Where did the Shlieffen Plan stop? Battle of Marne

How many men made up the BEF? Around 80,000 men
When was the first battle of the BEF?– 23 August 1914
Where was the Battle of Mons? Belgium 
When was the Battle of Marne – 5 September 1914
Who sent more French troops to River Marne by taxi? Gen. Gallieni
Where did the Germans retreat to from The Marne? Aisne River


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## Wurger (Mar 3, 2019)

That's OK.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 7, 2019)

Where is the best place to learn about ww2 aircraft rather than reading books?


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## Wurger (Mar 7, 2019)

Here.. just our forum.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 7, 2019)

I'm building a model of a fw 190 a8, I wànt to learn about the aircraft and I've yet to start building a Boulton paul defiant nf1 and want info on that too.


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## Wurger (Mar 7, 2019)

You may read about the Fw 190 here ....

Focke-Wulf Fw 190 - Wikipedia

And here about the BP Defiant.

Boulton Paul Defiant - Wikipedia

But all depends on what you want to know. If you assemble the model of the Fw 190A-8 you may try to find out about the particular plane you decided to make only. Or you may try to get more including its construction , armament etc... so the choice is yours.


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## swampyankee (Mar 7, 2019)

Alecras234 said:


> Where is the best place to learn about ww2 aircraft rather than reading books?



Good museums


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## Alecras234 (Mar 12, 2019)

i have altered my list of questions and answers to short quick facts so they're easier to remember, do they sound ok, how do i put Schlieffen plan into a shorter description with France and 6 weeks in the short description? 

Austria-Hungary annexed - 1908
Franz Ferdinand assassinated – 28 June 1914 
Franz Ferdinand – Heir to the throne of Austria-Hungary
Franz Ferdinand assassinated in – Sarajevo
Franz Ferdinand killer – Gavrilo Princip l 
Austria-Hungary blamed Serbia for the assassination
Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia – 28 July 1914
Germany demands access into Belgium - 2 August 1914
Germany attack Belgium – 3 August 1914
Britain declares war on Germany – 4 August 1914
Battle of Mons- 23 August 1914
First battle of BEF – Battle of Mons
Schlieffen plan - To avoid a 2 front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks
Schlieffen plan created by – Alfred Von Schlieffen
Schlieffen plan created -1905
First Battle of Marne – 5 Sepember1914


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## Wurger (Mar 12, 2019)

All sounds good.

the sentnce "Schlieffen plan - To avoid a 2 front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks" can be:

Schlieffen plan - no 2 front war by defeating France in about 6 weeks


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## Alecras234 (Mar 14, 2019)

i still dont know how to shorten the explanation 
​
Shlieffen plan - no 2 front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks. Does it make sense? 

How about No 2 front war - France 6 weeks?


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## Wurger (Mar 14, 2019)

Alecras234 said:


> Shlieffen plan - no 2 front war by defeating France in less than 6 weeks. Does it make sense?



I would say yes it does.



Alecras234 said:


> How about No 2 front war - France 6 weeks?



The sentence doesn't make sense. The part "No 2 front war" is quite clear and could be . But the second part "France 6 weeks" is entirely useless. What France what 6 weeks? Nonsense.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 18, 2019)

Hi i've typed in my notes, what was the shlieffen plan? A plan to avoid a two front war by defeating \France in less than 6 weeks. it's a bit long, can't i make the explanation shorter?


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## Wurger (Mar 18, 2019)

You may use the one:

Schlieffen plan - To avoid a 2 front war.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 18, 2019)

What about defeating France in less than 6 weeks?


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## Wurger (Mar 18, 2019)

I think you may omit that part.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 18, 2019)

I have typed, why was the Shlieffen Plan created? To avoid a two front war. Does that sound ok?


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## Wurger (Mar 18, 2019)

Yes it does.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 18, 2019)

Thanks for your help. When Germany wanted access into Belgium on 2 August 1914, was that when they started to use the Shlieffen Plan?


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## Wurger (Mar 18, 2019)

Yes it was. However I would say the day when they attacked Belgium.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 19, 2019)

im reading the eastern front chapter now. It says, 
War had begun on the Eastern Front. Two Russian armies bore down into East Prussia, while the German army was led by the formidable duo of Generals Paul von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff. The Germans, in full possession of Russian plans, decimated the first Russian army. ‘The tsar trusted me,’ wailed the Russian commander, Alexander Samsonov. ‘How can I ever face him again?’ He didn’t – he walked into a nearby wood and shot himself. The second Russian army fared no better. The Battles of Tannenberg and the Masurian Lakes went down as terrible defeats for Russia. The Austrian–Hungarian empire, the instigators of this whole war, was faring no better.

Shall i say in my notes, What two Russian Armies went into Eastern Prussia? First and Second

What two german generals led the german army into Prussia?

Who defeated the first Russian Army? Germans

What Russian commander committed suicide? Samsonov


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## Wurger (Mar 19, 2019)

As memo serves we have been talking about that. The list of the points for that chapter was already completed. But if you want these posted above.. it OK. All sounds good.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 20, 2019)

Im not sure im getting anywhere with my book. I finished the western front with the question, when was first battle of marine? 5 September 1914 but I haven't said anything about trenches and what happened after marine. I'm struggling to put facts onto questions. How do I make it simple for myself to make questions? O know I start with who what when why how, for instance 2 Russian armies bore down into east prussia, how do I put that into a question?


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## Wurger (Mar 20, 2019)

For instance..

How many Russian Armies attacked the East Prussia? Two.

or

What Russian Armies attacked the East Prussia? The 1st and the 2nd.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 20, 2019)

Hi i have typed these facts but i think the one about the german generals can be shortened. I'm stuck after the Samsonov suicide.
What Russian armies attacked Eastern Prussia? First and Second
What Generals led the German army to defeat the Russian First army? Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff.
What Russian commander committed suicide? Alexander Samsonov

‘The tsar trusted me,’ wailed the Russian commander, Alexander Samsonov. ‘How can I ever face him again?’ He didn’t – he walked into a nearby wood and shot himself. The second Russian army fared no better. The Battles of Tannenberg and the Masurian Lakes went down as terrible defeats for Russia. The Austrian–Hungarian empire, the instigators of this whole war, was faring no better.


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## Wurger (Mar 20, 2019)

Yep.. for instance...

Who led the German Army to defeat the Russians in East Prussia ? Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff.

or 

Who led the German Army in East Prussia ? Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 20, 2019)

ok thanks, so where it says Russian 2nd army fared no better, what does that mean? does it mean the Russian 2nd army lost aswel?


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## Wurger (Mar 20, 2019)

The "Russian 2nd army fared no better" means that the Army wasn't able to achieve the goals the Russian commanders ordered. Also it means that the Army couldn't fight and attack as it was assumed. To sum up.. yes the Army lost too.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 20, 2019)

so Russian armies 1 and 2 were defeated by german army?


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## Wurger (Mar 20, 2019)

Yes they were. The 2nd Army was defeated in August 1914 ( the Battle at Grunwald (Tannerberg) ) and the 1st Army in September 1914 (The First Battle of the Masurian Lakes)


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## Alecras234 (Mar 20, 2019)

this is what ive done so far, does it sound ok, do i need to say what battles the russian were defeated in?
What Russian armies attacked Eastern Prussia? First and Second
Who led the German army to defeat the Russians in Eastern Prussia?
Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff.
What Russian commander committed suicide? Alexander Samsonov
When was the first Russian army defeated by the German army? August 1914
When was the second Russian army defeated by the German army? September 1914


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## Wurger (Mar 20, 2019)

If you want to say what battles the russian were defeated in you can do. But there is no need forthat.

However the two last points are wrong. The first Russian Army was defeated in September 1914 while the 2nd one in August 1914. Just the 2nd Army was the first Russian group that was defeated.

So it should be to keep the sequence of events. ...

When was the second Russian army defeated by the German army? August 1914
When was the first Russian army defeated by the German army? September 1914


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## Alecras234 (Mar 21, 2019)

hi i want to finish off the western front before continuing with the eastern front. How can i put these into questions and answers please?

After three days of fighting at the Marne, the Germans looked poised to break through the French and British forces, and onto Paris. Gallieni was to send reinforcements but while he had the troops he had no means to transport them north. In a flash of ingenuity, he seized every available Parisian taxi – 600 of them – crammed each one full of soldiers and sent them on their way to meet the army of the French commander-in-chief, General Joseph Joffre.


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## Wurger (Mar 21, 2019)

How Galleni sent the reinforcements to General Joffre? He used Parisian taxis.
What was the result of the Gelleni's idea of using taxis? The French Army stopped and forced Germans to retreat.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 22, 2019)

How would I put this into questions and answers? Would i put what army retreated from the first battle of marine? Germans. Where did the German army retreat to and dig trenches? Aisne. I can't think of more? Is what I've done so far ok or can they be worded better? I make questions from every sentence and then decide which to keep and which to erase, I never know which to erase.


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## Wurger (Mar 22, 2019)

Alecras234 said:


> How would I put this into questions and answers?



What do you want to put into the questions and answeres? I have posted the questions with answeres in my prevous post on tthe page back. So the recent part of your read has been covered with them, IMHO.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 22, 2019)

This was the last thread from you. 
How Galleni sent the reinforcements to General Joffre? He used Parisian taxis.
What was the result of the Gelleni's idea of using taxis? The French Army stopped and forced Germans to retreat.


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## Wurger (Mar 22, 2019)

Yes these are the points posted there. I would say these are enough to cover the part of the reading you posted there too.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 22, 2019)

I want to say that retreat from marine and trenches dug at Aisne then aliens dug trenches àround the Germans


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## Wurger (Mar 22, 2019)

As memo serves it had been already said somewhere before.

However you can say it in the way ..

What was the result of the Battle of Marne? The victory of the French Army and BEF.
What the German Army did? They retreated at the Asine river and dug trenches there.


BTW.. "Allies dug trenches around Germans". The sentence sounds a little bit strange I would say. The French Army and BEF didn't encircle Germans there. Just they approached the German defense line and then stopped digging their own trenches in front of the german's line and along the line.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 22, 2019)

Cqn i say, the BEF and French army won? Can i say what did the German army do at the first battle of marne? Retreated to the Aisne river where they dug trenches?


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## Wurger (Mar 22, 2019)

Of course you can. There is no problem I would say.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 22, 2019)

This is my list from yesterday, do i need to say about the Race to the Sea or is it fine the way it is?
First Battle of Marne – 5 Sepember1914
How did Gallieni send reinforcements to General Joffre? He used taxis
What was the result of Gallieni’s idea of using taxis? It forced the German army to retreat.
Who led the German army to defeat the Russians in East Prussia?
Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff.
What Russian commander committed suicide? Alexander Samsonov
When was the first Russian army defeated by the German army? September 1914
When was the second Russian army defeated by the German army? August 1914
What was the result of the first Battle of Marne? French army and BEF won
What did the German army do when they lost the First Battle of Marne? They retreated to the Aisne river and dug trenches.


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## Wurger (Mar 22, 2019)

It looks good. However I would suggest the order of points...

First Battle of Marne – 5 Sepember1914
How did Gallieni send reinforcements to General Joffre? He used taxis
What was the result of Gallieni’s idea of using taxis? It stopped the Germans' advance.
What was the result of the first Battle of Marne? French army and BEF won
What did the German army do when they lost the First Battle of Marne? They retreated to the Aisne river and dug trenches.
Who led the German army to defeat the Russians in East Prussia? Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff.
When was the second Russian army defeated by the German army? August 1914
What Russian commander committed suicide? Alexander Samsonov
When was the first Russian army defeated by the German army? September 1914

and here you may add one or two points about the Race to the Sea....


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## Alecras234 (Mar 22, 2019)

How do these sound? i struggled defining Race to the Sea.

First Battle of Marne – 5 Sepember1914
How did Gallieni send more troops to General Joffre? He used taxis
What was the result of Gallieni’s idea of using taxis? It forced the German army to retreat.
What was the result of the first Battle of Marne? French army and BEF won
What did the German army do when they lost the First Battle of Marne? They retreated to the Aisne river and dug trenches.
Who led the German army to defeat the Russians in East Prussia? Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff.
When was the second Russian army defeated by the German army? August 1914
What Russian commander committed suicide? Alexander Samsonov
When was the first Russian army defeated by the German army? September 1914

What was the Race to the Sea? Allies and German army digging trenches across France


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## Wurger (Mar 22, 2019)

Alecras234 said:


> What was the Race to the Sea? Allies and German army digging trenches across France



Alec, I have repeated that twice or more times .. the Race to the Sea wasn't the digging of trenches across the France. It was several French and German attacks for encircling enemy . Each of these attacks ended with no victory for any side. As a result both armies were digging the trenches for its own defence. Each time the line of trenches was made longer and longer going more and more to the north untill it reached the North Sea.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 22, 2019)

this is what my book says about Race to the Sea. 
Paris was safe and now it was the turn of the Germans to retreat. They fell back, forty miles north, to the River Aisne where they stopped and dug in. The Allies tried to dislodge the Germans from their defensive positions but, failing to do so, began to dig their own trenches. General Joffre moved part of his force northwards of the Aisne to try and outflank the Germans. The Germans, now led by Erich von Falkenhayn, moved a comparable number of men to block Joffre’s manoeuvre. Joffre repeated his tactic – as did the Germans, each side constructing trenches as it went along. It developed in what became known as the ‘Race to the Sea’ as each army tried to out lap the other until they both hit the Channel. A similar charade extended the line of trenches south from the Aisne to the Swiss border.

I don't know how to word it.


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## Wurger (Mar 22, 2019)

Alecras234 said:


> this is what my book says about Race to the Sea.
> Paris was safe and now it was the turn of the Germans to retreat. They fell back, forty miles north, to the River Aisne where they stopped and dug in. The Allies tried to dislodge the Germans from their defensive positions but, failing to do so, began to dig their own trenches. *General Joffre moved part of his force northwards of the Aisne to try and outflank the Germans. The Germans, now led by Erich von Falkenhayn, moved a comparable number of men to block Joffre’s manoeuvre. Joffre repeated his tactic* – as did the Germans, each side constructing trenches as it went along. *It developed in what became known as the ‘Race to the Sea’ as each army tried to out lap the other until they both hit the Channel*. A similar charade extended the line of trenches south from the Aisne to the Swiss border.
> 
> I don't know how to word it.



Here I have made bold the part of the text that says about the tactic used. The red text says what the Race to the Sea was. Especially the part with the red underlined sentence.

Here how you may word that..

What was the Race to the Sea? The number of French and German attempts to outflank enemy.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 22, 2019)

ok im sorry that i didnt understand. Do these sound ok? 
First Battle of Marne – 5 Sepember1914
How did Gallieni send more troops to General Joffre? He used taxis
What was the result of Gallieni’s idea of using taxis? It forced the German army to retreat.
What was the result of the first Battle of Marne? French army and BEF won
What did the German army do when they lost the First Battle of Marne? They retreated to the Aisne river and dug trenches.
Who led the German army to defeat the Russians in East Prussia? Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff.
When was the second Russian army defeated by the German army? August 1914
What Russian commander committed suicide? Alexander Samsonov
When was the first Russian army defeated by the German army? September 1914
What was the Race to the Sea? French and German attempts to outflank each other .

what does outflank mean?


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## Wurger (Mar 22, 2019)

all sounds good.

outflank means encircle


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## Alecras234 (Mar 22, 2019)

i thought you said they didnt encircle? im sorry im confused, is outflank to move around the enemy or move in front of the enemy??


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## Wurger (Mar 22, 2019)

Alecras234 said:


> i thought you said they didnt encircle?


Yes, neither the French Army+BEF nor the German Army were able to encircle their enemy.




Alecras234 said:


> im sorry im confused, is outflank to move around the enemy or move in front of the enemy??



It is "move around". Actually that's the military term for a way of encircling enemy.

Alec I would suggest improving your vocabulary. It will allow you to understand more about what we talk about here.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 23, 2019)

Hi im trying to decide which facts to keep and which aren't that important. I was thinking of erasing point numbers, 3,5 and 10, what do you think?

First Battle of Marne – 5 Sepember1914
How did Gallieni send more troops to General Joffre? He used taxis
What was the result of Gallieni’s idea of using taxis? It forced the German army to retreat.
What was the result of the first Battle of Marne? French army and BEF won
What did the German army do when they lost the First Battle of Marne? They retreated to the Aisne river and dug trenches.
Who led the German army to defeat the Russians in East Prussia? Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff.
When was the second Russian army defeated by the German army? August 1914
What Russian commander committed suicide? Alexander Samsonov
When was the first Russian army defeated by the German army? September 1914
What was the Race to the Sea? French and German attempts to outflank each other .


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## Wurger (Mar 23, 2019)

Yes you can delete these points. Also the point 8 can be erased.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 23, 2019)

Thank you for your help i really appreciate it. Do you mean like this, do these look ok?

First Battle of Marne – 5 Sepember1914
How did Gallieni send more troops to General Joffre? He used taxis
What was the result of the first Battle of Marne? French army and BEF won
Who led the German army to defeat the Russians in East Prussia? Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff.
When was the second Russian army defeated by the German army? August 1914
What Russian commander committed suicide? Alexander Samsonov
When was the first Russian army defeated by the German army? September 1914


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## Wurger (Mar 23, 2019)

Yes it is ok. I would suggest removing of the 6 point too..

As a result you will get the list ..

First Battle of Marne – 5 Sepember1914
How did Gallieni send more troops to General Joffre? He used taxis
What was the result of the first Battle of Marne? French army and BEF won
Who led the German army to defeat the Russians in East Prussia? Paul Von Hindenburg and Erich Ludendorff.
When was the second Russian army defeated by the German army? August 1914
When was the first Russian army defeated by the German army? September 1914


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## Alecras234 (Mar 23, 2019)

Should i keep who commited suicide? Alexander Samsonov, or dont i need to remember that?


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## Wurger (Mar 23, 2019)

No it is not needed. I deleted the point from the above list. Have you read my post above?


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## Alecras234 (Mar 23, 2019)

Do you know any good documentaries on ww1 and ww2 telling the various events of the war on you tube?


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## Wurger (Mar 23, 2019)

Alec, it is difficult to recommend any of them. There is a lot of such films. Just go there and type the event you are interested in and the Youtube search will display a list of them. In the way you can be able to chose which one you want to watch.


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## swampyankee (Mar 23, 2019)

Two I think can be recommended are _Paths of Glory_ and_ All Quiet on the Western Front_. Neither are documentaries.

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


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## Crimea_River (Mar 23, 2019)

I think this guy is fantastic. The WW1 one is free to download and comes in 6 parts almost 20 hours in total. Not videos but very well done:

Hardcore History 50 – Blueprint for Armageddon I

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


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## hilli (Mar 23, 2019)

Alecras234 said:


> Hi im trying to learn European theatre of WW2 by reading things off this site - European Theater of World War II I have typed out Questions and answers to try and remember facts. My mate who knows about WW2 told me to learn when the outbreak of ww2 was and where it started which i know, then read about Dunkirk and what happened. War started in 1939 with Germany attacking Poland, they used the Blitzkrieg tactic, then 2 days later Britain and France declared war on Germany. That's what i know so far. I have read a little on the Battle of France, I don't really understand it, was the battle of France the battle of Belgium and Holland too? So the Germans attacked France through the Ardennes forest, then what, attacked Belgium? How did the british get to Dunkirk beach?


Hi Ash

I think reading endless "facts" about WW2 and aircraft is too much kike swotting up for school exams. Instead, I have gained what I consider a fair knowledge of what happened in the war through reading autobiographies by people who experienced the events at first hand. Many wonderful books were written in the 50s, and some as late as the 2000s. Escape books come to mind, such as "The Wooden Horse" and "They Have Their Exits". Then there are all the wonderful fighter pilot memoirs like "Wing Leader" (Johnnie Johnson", "Nine Lives" (Al Deere). "The Last Enemy" (Richard Hillary) and many more. One of the best bomber pilot autobiographies is "No Moon Tonight" by Don Charlwood. You don't have to buy these books; your local library will order them for you from libraries all over the country, and you can fill in an online request. My rule of thumb is not to read biographies (written by someone else in the third person "he"), but only AUTObiographies in the first person "I". Churchill's 12-volume "The Second World War" is very readable. As you read more and more your knowledge grows, and you find yourself taking with a pinch of salt some of the opinions or claims by individual writers, e.g. the conflict of opinion on fighter tactics between Leigh-Mallory and Park. Since you are disabled, you'd probably enjoy "Best Foot Forward" by Colin Hodgkinson, the other Spifire pilot who, like Douglas Bader, flew with tin legs.

Happy reading!


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## swampyankee (Mar 23, 2019)

Another good podcast is History of the Great War.


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## Alecras234 (Mar 24, 2019)

hilli said:


> Hi Ash
> 
> I think reading endless "facts" about WW2 and aircraft is too much kike swotting up for school exams. Instead, I have gained what I consider a fair knowledge of what happened in the war through reading autobiographies by people who experienced the events at first hand. Many wonderful books were written in the 50s, and some as late as the 2000s. Escape books come to mind, such as "The Wooden Horse" and "They Have Their Exits". Then there are all the wonderful fighter pilot memoirs like "Wing Leader" (Johnnie Johnson", "Nine Lives" (Al Deere). "The Last Enemy" (Richard Hillary) and many more. One of the best bomber pilot autobiographies is "No Moon Tonight" by Don Charlwood. You don't have to buy these books; your local library will order them for you from libraries all over the country, and you can fill in an online request. My rule of thumb is not to read biographies (written by someone else in the third person "he"), but only AUTObiographies in the first person "I". Churchill's 12-volume "The Second World War" is very readable. As you read more and more your knowledge grows, and you find yourself taking with a pinch of salt some of the opinions or claims by individual writers, e.g. the conflict of opinion on fighter tactics between Leigh-Mallory and Park. Since you are disabled, you'd probably enjoy "Best Foot Forward" by Colin Hodgkinson, the other Spifire pilot who, like Douglas Bader, flew with tin legs.
> 
> Happy reading!


Interesting. I like the sound of autobiographies. Is this book any good? 
Web results
1914-1918: The History of the First World War: Amazon.co.uk: David ...
Amazon.co.uk: Low Prices in Electronics, Books, Sports Equipment & more › 1914-1918-...


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## Alecras234 (Mar 24, 2019)

hilli said:


> Hi Ash
> 
> I think reading endless "facts" about WW2 and aircraft is too much kike swotting up for school exams. Instead, I have gained what I consider a fair knowledge of what happened in the war through reading autobiographies by people who experienced the events at first hand. Many wonderful books were written in the 50s, and some as late as the 2000s. Escape books come to mind, such as "The Wooden Horse" and "They Have Their Exits". Then there are all the wonderful fighter pilot memoirs like "Wing Leader" (Johnnie Johnson", "Nine Lives" (Al Deere). "The Last Enemy" (Richard Hillary) and many more. One of the best bomber pilot autobiographies is "No Moon Tonight" by Don Charlwood. You don't have to buy these books; your local library will order them for you from libraries all over the country, and you can fill in an online request. My rule of thumb is not to read biographies (written by someone else in the third person "he"), but only AUTObiographies in the first person "I". Churchill's 12-volume "The Second World War" is very readable. As you read more and more your knowledge grows, and you find yourself taking with a pinch of salt some of the opinions or claims by individual writers, e.g. the conflict of opinion on fighter tactics between Leigh-Mallory and Park. Since you are disabled, you'd probably enjoy "Best Foot Forward" by Colin Hodgkinson, the other Spifire pilot who, like Douglas Bader, flew with tin legs.
> 
> Happy reading!



Could you give me a list of ww1 autobiographies please?


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## Alecras234 (Apr 3, 2019)

Hi mate can you explain something please? I want to quickly learn facts and I was told to type a mind map with facts in order


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## Wurger (Apr 3, 2019)

Hi Alec,

What do you need?


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## Alecras234 (Apr 3, 2019)

i have done this mind map, have i done it right? you have to zoom in to read it.


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## Wurger (Apr 3, 2019)

Looking good.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 3, 2019)

Are they in order , do i need to add anything before i do more facts?


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## Wurger (Apr 3, 2019)

All is fine IMHO.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 3, 2019)

Could you explain please how you get facts out of this page?

The Germans now found themselves in the very situation they had wanted to avoid – a war on two fronts. A system of over 1,000 miles of defensive trenches appeared on the Eastern Front. Although much longer – unlike the Western Front, the front lines were often as much as fifty miles apart – these fronts were not continuous, and were lightly defended. German sources of manpower and equipment were stretched even further when, throughout the war, they were obliged to send reinforcements to help the Austrian–Hungarians. They felt as if they were ‘shackled to a corpse’.


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## Wurger (Apr 3, 2019)

Alec, it is quite difficult to explain and describe the way the facts can be gotten out... just when I read a such text I'm choosing these ones that can be interested or main for the purpose I want to achieve. For instance .. the fisrt sentence...

"The Germans now found themselves in the very situation they had wanted to avoid – a war on two fronts."

I have underlined the words that can be useful for crating a question and the answer to it. As you may notice .. "Germans found themself in situation they wanted to avoid." 
Now the shorther sentence can be used for creating the question... of course it depends on what you want to ask about.. let's say you want to ask about the situation...

so the question can be :
- In what situation Germans did find themself? The answer can be " In the war on two fronts."

also you may ask..
- What did Germans want to avoid? The replay can be " The war on two fronts."


The another sentence.. " A system of over 1,000 miles of defensive trenches appeared on the Eastern Front. "
- What appeared on the Eastern Front? So the answer can be "1.000 miles of trenches" or A 1.000 miles system of trenches.

The next sentence explains us what was the difference in the system of trenches on the Western and Eastern Frontes.. or just how the Eastern Fron line looked like.

"Although much longer – unlike the Western Front, the front lines were often as much as fifty miles apart – these fronts were not continuous, and were lightly defended.

As a result we can create a new descrption of the Eastern Front.
"The system of trenches at the Eastern Front was much longer than the one of the Western Front. But the system of trenches wasn't continuous. There were fifty miles apart often. Additionally the lines were lightly defended."

The questions to each of the new sentences can be created now.

For instance..

What were the differences in the lines of trenches on the Eastern and Western Fronts.

1. The Eastern Front had longer lines of trenches than the Western Front.
2. The Eastern Front line wasn't continuous. There were intervals of fifty miles often.
3. The lines of trenches were badly defended.

In the same way you may analyze the last two sentences of the text you post above.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 3, 2019)

So do these sound ok?

Eastern Front - 1,000 miles of trenches
50 miles between western and Eastern trenches


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## Wurger (Apr 3, 2019)

The first one is OK. But the second sentence is wrong.

The text you posted on the previous page says that the Eastern Front line wasn't the one long line of trenches like it was on the Western Front. It means that the front line consisted of many short fronts with lines of trenches. Often , these separate lines were located at distance equel or more then 50 miles each from another.

So the correct sentence should be ...

50 miles gaps for fronts ( lines of trenches ) on the Eastern Front.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 3, 2019)

for east prussia ive got, German generals paul von hindenburg and erich ludenfdorff and Russia defeated by Germans. Do i need to add any more to East prussia? I'm on Global War next where New Zealand and Austrailia have taken islands.


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## Wurger (Apr 3, 2019)

I think you don't need to add anything more to the East Prussia.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 3, 2019)

i want to just ask sorry, it says in the book trenches are 50 miles apart on eastern front but you said they're not, they have 50 mile gaps, which is correct? im not going to add it i just wandered.


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## Wurger (Apr 3, 2019)

The "50 miles apart" just means that there were gaps/breaks ( intervals ) in the front line on the Eastern Front.

The Western front line looked like one long line without any breaks ( gaps ) in the line. The line was running vertically from the North to the South.
The Eastern front line looked like a dotted line going from the North to the South. There were 50 miles gaps/breaks /intervals between each of two parts of the front line there.
If you want I may make a diagram to explain it better.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 4, 2019)

so the trench line on the eastern front had gaps of fifty miles whereas the trenches on the western front didn't have gaps?


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## Wurger (Apr 4, 2019)

Yes. That's correct. In other words the trenches on the Eastern Front weren't the continuous line.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 4, 2019)

im reading Global War now and im trying get facts. 

The British asked their dominions to seize nearby German colonies, requests that were gladly accepted. By October 1914, Samoa had fallen to New Zealand, and German New Guinea and the Bismarck Archipelago (modern-day Papua New Guinea) to Australia.

I have so far, New Zealand capture Samoa - 29 August 1914

Australia capture Bismarck Archipelago - September 1914, Are these too long like Australia capture Bismarck Archipelago?


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## Wurger (Apr 4, 2019)

No , these aren't too long. To be honest I can't see any other ways to say that.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 4, 2019)

To keep it short what about, Samoa captured 29 August 1914, Bismarck Archipelago captured - Sept 1914


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## Wurger (Apr 4, 2019)

These sound also good. By there no info on who or by who.. so those earlier are much better.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 4, 2019)

Did Germany own Samoa and Papua New Guinea? (Bismarck Archipelago)


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## Wurger (Apr 4, 2019)

Yes. Therefore the name of Bismarck for the islands there.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 4, 2019)

so Bismarck Archipelago are islands that surround New Guinea mainland, or is Bismarck Archipelago the name for the mainland aswel?


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## Wurger (Apr 4, 2019)

Yes the Bismarck Archipelago were the islands that sorrounded the New Guinea mainland. So the name of the archipelago is for these islands. As far as the New Guinea is concerned , Germans owned a part of the mainland only. Below some of the History of the area...

"German New Guinea consisted of the northeastern part of the island of New Guinea and several nearby island groups and was the first part of the German colonial empire. The mainland part of the territory, called Kaiser-Wilhelmsland, became a German protectorate in 1884. Other island groups were added subsequently. New Pomerania, the Bismarck Archipelago, and the northern Solomon Islands were declared a German protectorate in 1885; the Caroline Islands, Palau, and the Mariana Islands were bought from Spain in 1899; the protectorate of the Marshall Islands was bought from Spain in 1885 for $4.5 million by the 1885 Hispano-German Protocol of Rome; and Nauru was annexed to the Marshall Islands protectorate in 1888. "


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## Alecras234 (Apr 5, 2019)

In September, Japanese forces landed in neutral China and laid siege to the German base at Tsingtao on the coast of China, capturing it on 7 November. In Africa, the war was fought against the German colonies. In German East Africa, the maverick German commander, Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck, held out for the whole war, only surrendering on 23 November 1918. Elsewhere, Germany lost its colonies in West Africa with Togoland and Cameroon falling to the Allies, and in the south where South Africa conquered German South West Africa (Namibia) with relative ease. 
On 23 May 1915, Italy entered the war on the side of the Allies.


I have changed the last fact, do they sound ok? I have skipped facts from where it says about the german general surrendering. Should i have the fact that German colonies were lost? I want to keep When italy joined.

Samoa captured 29 August 1914,
Bismarck Archipelago captured - Sept 1914
Japanese capture German base at Tsingtao - November 7 1941
East African German General - Paul Von Lettow-Vorbeck
Italy enters war - 23 May 1915


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## Wurger (Apr 5, 2019)




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## Alecras234 (Apr 7, 2019)

Here are the facts i've typed, do i need to number each point from Franz Ferdinand Assassination, Austria Hungary war on Serbia, Schlieffen Plan, East Prussia, so i remember which events are in order? On August 3rd Germany attack Belgium, Should that point be under Shlieffen Plan? Shold i change Austria declares war on Serbia to Austria sends ultimatum to Serbia - 23 july 1914, then have Austria declares war on serbia ?


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## Wurger (Apr 7, 2019)

If the numbering can help you may do that. The other things there look good to me.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 7, 2019)

Shall i add Serbia ultimatum before AH declare war on Serbia?


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## Wurger (Apr 7, 2019)

IMHO you may. But it is not obliged.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 8, 2019)

Hi sorry, should i put Germany attacks Belgium - 3 August 1914 under Shlieffen Plan? At the moment Germany attacks Belgium is linked with Austria Hungary war on Serbia which isn't right is it? I feel that with Germany attacking Belgium was that start of the Shlieffen Plan.


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## Wurger (Apr 8, 2019)

No you shoiuldn't. The Shliffen Plan is just the plane only while the German attack on Belgium is the fact that relates to the war directly. In other words the plan and the attack are two different things.


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## Alecras234 (Apr 8, 2019)

oh ok, i see


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## Alecras234 (Apr 8, 2019)

Do these look ok?


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## Wurger (Apr 8, 2019)

Yes these look good.


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## Alecras234 (May 7, 2019)

Hi, i've made this map to learn facts, does it sound alright or are there parts i need to add or delete?


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## Wurger (May 7, 2019)

Looking good.


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## Alecras234 (May 7, 2019)

what else could i add about the siege of Tsingtao?


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## Wurger (May 7, 2019)

All you want. I don't think there is any limitation. But you should adjust the amount of info to your abilities of learning..


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## Alecras234 (May 9, 2019)

How does this sound? i have added more to East Prussia? Any other changes??


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## Wurger (May 9, 2019)




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## Alecras234 (May 12, 2019)

Hi i thought about doing a map for each chapter of my WW1 book, so i've done a map of the Assassination of Franz Ferdinand, then i'll do a map of facts on the Schlieffen plan. Here is what ive done today, there aren't many facts on it as i xdidn't know what else to put down, what else can i write? it doesn't look much.


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## Alecras234 (May 18, 2019)

Hi I have made the see facts on a tree do the facts sound ok?


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## Snautzer01 (May 18, 2019)

Grammar.


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## Alecras234 (May 18, 2019)

What do you mean? I can't think of a title. Do the facts sound ok, do I need to add more?


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## Wurger (May 18, 2019)

Alec , Snautzer01 wanted to show you that there is the spelling mistake or typo rather . Instead of "sta*rt* " you typed "sta*rr*". Just there is the "start" word ended with the letter "r" instead of "t" there..


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## Alecras234 (May 18, 2019)

hows this? are the facts ok, worth remembering??


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## Wurger (May 18, 2019)

It is fine.


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## Alecras234 (May 19, 2019)

How can I say in short why Franz Ferdinand was killed please?


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## Wurger (May 19, 2019)

I would say, he was killed because Bosnian Serbs wanted to be free.

So the short sentence can be : Bosnian Serbs wanted to be free.


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## swampyankee (May 19, 2019)

Wurger said:


> I would say, he was killed because Bosnian Serbs wanted to be free.
> 
> So the short sentence can be : Bosnian Serbs wanted to be free.



An alternative statement could be he was killed by a member of a state-sponsored terrorist organization hoping to provoke a war benefiting Serbian expansionism.

I'm not, by the way, a fan of the Austrian Empire or its avatar, Austria-Hungary. It was, in my view, a deeply despotic and repressive regime that was a leader in causing human misery in many parts of 19th Century Europe.


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## Alecras234 (May 19, 2019)

I have made these 3 maps of things to remember, do they sound right, do i need to add more things to remember? i think i'll leave these facts alone once you have checked them.


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## Wurger (May 19, 2019)

All are OK Alec. Well done. 

One note only... The field with the date "Died 1913" only at the blue branch suggests that the Schlieffen's plan passed away in 1913. Contrary to that , the green branch says that Alfred von Schlieffen was created in 1905. So it is not logical or even funny I would say. In other words it was Alfered von Schlieffen who died in 1913 while his plan was created in 1905. I suggest changing of the two fields with the dates there. The green one should be with the "Died 1913" and the blue one with the "Created 1905". Just swap the contents of these....


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## Alecras234 (May 19, 2019)

So what you're saying is, whatever is relevant to a person, ie Alfred von schlieffen, i should put what applies to him on the same branch? Is this ok now? what about the defeated France in less than 6 weeks, should that go somewhere else?


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## Wurger (May 19, 2019)

Yes Alec. It is.

Now, you have there all facts regarding the Schlieffen's Plan and him personally listed correctly. That's perfect. Any additional changings aren't needed.


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## Alecras234 (May 19, 2019)

are the other maps ok? the dates and the assassination?


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## Wurger (May 19, 2019)

The other maps look fine. IMHO you don't need to change anything there.


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## Alecras234 (May 20, 2019)

Instead of Defeat France in less than 6 weeks? Can I say to wipe out France first before attacking Russia?


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## Wurger (May 20, 2019)

No, you can't. The 6 weeks was for defeating of the France before the Russia could attack Germany.


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## Alecras234 (May 20, 2019)

So how else could I say it? I'm trying to explain events in my head so if people ask me what was the Schlieffen Plan I could tell them without looking at my notes.


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## Wurger (May 20, 2019)

Generally ??? ... It was a Germans plan of their country defence.


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## Alecras234 (May 20, 2019)

Shall I erase this point and just say it was a plan for Germans to avoid a two front war?


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## Wurger (May 20, 2019)

Yes, you can do that. The sentence "It was a plan for Germans to avoid a two front war" is also enough good explanation of what the Schlieffen's plane was.


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## Alecras234 (May 20, 2019)

No im sorry i feel i need to say, it was a plan to avoid a two front war by attacking France first before Russia. Does that sound ok?


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## Wurger (May 20, 2019)

I undestood. But saying that it was a plan to avoid a two front war by attacking France first before Russia, isn't correct. Germans didn't want to attack Russia after they could defeat the France. Germans worried about being attacked by the France and Russia form both sides. I mean from the West and East. The German Army wasn't enough strong to fight against the French and Russian Armies at the same time. So Schlieffen came up with an idea of defeating France before the Russia could attack Germany to support the French ally.. Having the France defeated , Germans could move their units from the Wast to the East in order to stop the very possible Russian attack or support already fighting weak and rare units on the Eastern Front. In other words, Schlieffen followed the well-known rule that the best way of defence is an attack. But it can relate to the France only but not to the Russia.

I would suggest using one of these sentences... IMHO the first one sounds good and is enough.

"It was a plan for Germans to avoid a two front war" 
or
"Tt was a plan to avoid a two front war by attacking France before struggling against Russia.


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## Alecras234 (May 20, 2019)

changed it


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## Wurger (May 20, 2019)

Well done.


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## Alecras234 (May 20, 2019)

Are my other two maps are ok, yes?


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## Wurger (May 20, 2019)

Yes the other maps are OK.


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## Alecras234 (May 20, 2019)

why franz ferdinand was killed? Because Bosnian Serbs wanted to be free, shall i say Bosnian Serbs wanted to be free of Austria Hungary?


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## Wurger (May 20, 2019)

You can say in that way too. But the "Bosnian Serbs wanted to be free," is also enough.


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## Alecras234 (May 24, 2019)

Should i add to my map, Schlieffen plan started with Germany's attack on Belgium?


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## Wurger (May 24, 2019)

No I don't think so. The map with the Schlieffen's plane is about the plan only. It is OK. The German's attack on Belgium reffres to the WW1 start and it should be there rather.


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## Alecras234 (May 24, 2019)

Did the Schlieffen plan begin on 4th August when Germany attacked Belgium?


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## Wurger (May 24, 2019)

Germans attacked Belgium at night on the 3rd/4th August and it can be considered the start of the plan running.


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## Alecras234 (May 24, 2019)

This ok ?


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## Wurger (May 24, 2019)

Yes, it's OK.


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## Alecras234 (May 28, 2019)

How does this sound for Russia's invasion of East Prussia, have i got the main facts? No dates though.


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## Wurger (May 28, 2019)

OK. Looking good..


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## Alecras234 (May 28, 2019)

anymore to add, what are the dates?


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## Wurger (May 28, 2019)

For the dates , please check our previous posts of the thread. These had already been posted


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## Alecras234 (May 30, 2019)

I've done a map from the Global War chapter, are these facts ok, can you give any dates?


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## Wurger (May 30, 2019)

Japan declared war on Germany on 23 August 1914
Japan declared war on Austria-Hungary on 25 August 1914
Japan attacked Tsibgtao on 2 September 1914
Japan captured German islands in October 1914.


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## Alecras234 (May 30, 2019)

can i put about Lettow-Vorbeck being German east african general?


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## Wurger (May 30, 2019)

If you want, no problem I would say.


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## Alecras234 (May 30, 2019)

where shall i put lettow vorbeck


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## Wurger (May 30, 2019)

You may merge these two. I would move the Togoland and Camaroon in green and add to the pale sand branch with Gen. Lettow-Vorbeck


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## Alecras234 (May 30, 2019)

this ok?


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## Wurger (May 30, 2019)

Yes it is OK. But there is a mistake though. In the blue field you wrote that "23 August 1914 Germany declares war on Germany". I think you want to say that Japan declares war on Germany right?


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## Alecras234 (May 30, 2019)

changed


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## Wurger (May 30, 2019)

That's fine.


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## Alecras234 (May 30, 2019)

I'm confused. How would I know what facts to put in my tree maps? I can't think of important facts to add so I add anything.


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## Wurger (May 30, 2019)

To be honest I don't know how to help you my friend. If you read a book there are dates of events usually. But it must be you who decide which ones are more important and which ones have less significant meaning. Usually there is the info on when it happened/started or ended. So you have two dates at least , you may put in your tree map. Also there are mentioned , let's say , "turning points" that can be important and worth to put in the tree map. If there is no info on the date you may use other refrences to find it, eg. the Internet ( Wikipedia etc... )


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## Alecras234 (May 31, 2019)

can i add that japan captured German colonies in north pacific?


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## Wurger (May 31, 2019)

Humm.. As memo serves Germans didn't have colonies in the North Pacyfic. Here is the world map with Germans' colonies marked blue. As you may notice the blue morked area on the Pacyfic is loctaed rather in the middle or southern part of the ocean. Also you have already put the correct info in the tree map. So you don't need to add anything more.


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## Alecras234 (May 31, 2019)

Japan declared war on Germany on 23 August 1914 and promptly seized all the German-held 
islands in the North Pacific.


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## Wurger (May 31, 2019)

Just the Pacyfic I would say. The north area is at the top of the map posted above and as you may see there isn't any blue marked area.

However you may edit the pointed field of your tree map with the text written like in the pic below..


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## Alecras234 (May 31, 2019)

Togoland and Camaroon were German East African colonies yes?


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## Wurger (May 31, 2019)

Yes, these were.


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## Alecras234 (May 31, 2019)

Are all these facts ok?


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## Wurger (May 31, 2019)

OK.


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## Alecras234 (May 31, 2019)

I'm thinking of doing a PowerPoint presentation from all the facts I've got of ww1. Could I make a presentation, do I have enough facts,


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## Wurger (May 31, 2019)

IMHO you can make it.


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## Alecras234 (Jun 1, 2019)

Hi for a powerpoint presentation on World War One I should mention about the build up to war and the alliances made which i don't have. I don't want to start my presentation with the Assassination of Franz Ferdinand because there's the build up before that event. What do you suggest i start with?


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## Wurger (Jun 1, 2019)

To be honest there wasn't any build-up to war before the attack on Franz Ferdinand in Sarajevo. Of course you may start it with showing of the tree of the alliances among all WW1 participated countries. Also you may add a couple of smaller conflicts that happened before the assassination. Additionally you may mention something about the economical sytuation in the Europe.


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## Alecras234 (Jun 1, 2019)

So i could start with,

European Alliances - Countries that helped each other out in case of war. There were two alliances,
Triple Alliance and Triple Entente
Triple Alliances were, Germany, Austria-Hungary and Italy,
Triple Entante Britain France and Russia

Like that? Is the definition for Alliance ok and everything?


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## Wurger (Jun 1, 2019)

Yes like that. The Triple Alliance is also called " The Central Powers" Also you have to know that the Italy stayed neutral country at the beginning of the WW1 and then left the alliance on the 3rd May 1915. Contrary to Italy , the Kingdom of Bulgaria joined the Triple Alliance on the 14th October 1915. But earlier ,the alliance had joined the Ottoman Empire ( Turkey ) on the 2nd August 1914 (secret) and then on the 29th October 1914 (public). Therefore the Triple Alliance ( Central Powers ) is mentioned as the German - Austro Hungaria -Turkey alliance too. When the Bulgaria joined the league it is also known as the Quadruple Alliance.


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## Alecras234 (Jun 1, 2019)

so what structure should i have? 1. A picture showing the war, 2. Explain what the two Alliances are triple and Entente, 3. Explain about Assassination of Franz ferdinand??????


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## Wurger (Jun 1, 2019)

I would suggest using of any pic of WW1 but of nice resolution with the title in it. It should be the first slide. The second one can be as you said. I would add ( mention ) all members of each alliance with the dates of joining or leaving. The third slide can be as you said.


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## Alecras234 (Jun 1, 2019)

It says online that the triple alliance formed in 1887. I'm confused, Italy didn't join until May 1915. Triple Entante formed in 1907, yes?


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## Wurger (Jun 1, 2019)

Alec,

Actually, the Triple Alliance ( Central Powers ) started in 1879 with the German-Austria Hungary pact. Then the German-Italy pact was signed in 1882. And the date is said to be the beginning of the Triple Alliance. The Turkey ( Ottoman Empire ) joined 2 August 1914 and Bulgaria joined 14 October 1915. The Triple Alliance was renewed in 1887, 1891, 1902 and 1912. 

But before Bulgaria joined , the Italy left the alliance on 3 May 1915. In fact the Italy never took part in World War I on the side of the Central Powers. From the beginning of the WW1 the country stayed neutral. Then left and joined the Entante in 1915.

The Entante started in 1907 with the Russia-Great Britain pact. But before that, the France had singned a pact with Russia on 17 August 1892. Then the France-Great Britain pact was signed in 1904.

Is that clear now?


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## Alecras234 (Jun 1, 2019)

so before ww1, Italy was allied with Germany and Austria-Hungary ( Triple Alliance) but when ww1 broke out Italy left central powers on 3 may 1914 to join the Triple Entente, on 26 April 1914?


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## Wurger (Jun 1, 2019)

Yes Italy was allied with Germany and Austria-Hungary since 1882. When the war started Italy announced the neutrality though. On 26 April 1915 ( not 1914 ) Italy signed pact in London with Great Britain. As a result Italy left the Central Powers on 3 May 1915 ( but not 1914 ) and joined the Entente. Twenty days later ,on 23 May 1915, Italy declared war on Austria-Hungary.


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## Alecras234 (Jun 1, 2019)

so the Entente was Britain, France, Russia and Italy?


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## Wurger (Jun 1, 2019)

Initially the Entente was the pact of the first three countries. In 1914 Japan joined. Italy joined in 1915 . The USA joined as the "associated power" in 1917.

Associated Allies and co-belligerents:
1914 - Serbia, Belgium, Montenegro, 
1915 - Nejd and Hasa
1916 - Portugal, Romania
1917 - Hejaz, Greece, China, Siam, Brazil, 
1918 - Armenia


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## Alecras234 (Jun 2, 2019)

So members of the Central powers should i say, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Bulgaria? Shall i leave Italy out? I can't think how to word who the Central Powers were. Italy was a neutral member until 1915. The Triple Entante stayed the three members yes?


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## Wurger (Jun 2, 2019)

Yes Alec. The Triple Entente was the pact of three countries. Great Britain, France and Russia. But also the Japan that joined in 1914 and Italy in 1915. But the base of the Entente were the three first countries.

The Central Powers were: the Germany, Austra-Hungary and Italy. Then the Ottoman Empire (Turkey) joined in 1914. Italy left in 1915 and a while later in the same year the Bulgaria joined the pact 

Here is a diagram. Perhaps it could help you to understand...


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## Alecras234 (Jun 2, 2019)

For my second slide should it be this?

Central Powers Triple Entante

Germany Britain
Austria-Hungary France
Ottoman Empire Russia
Bulgaria Italy
Japan


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## Wurger (Jun 2, 2019)

Please, check my post above....


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## Alecras234 (Jun 2, 2019)

Central Powers Triple Entante

Germany Britain
Austria-Hungary France
Ottoman Empire Russia
Bulgaria Japan


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## Wurger (Jun 2, 2019)

Central Powers _________ Triple Entente

Germany ________________ Britain
Austria-Hungary ________ France
Italy _____________________ Russia

joined later :

Ottoman Empire ________ Japan
Bulgaria

Italy left the CP in 1915 and joined the Entente.


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## Wurger (Jun 2, 2019)

BTW.. Alec you may download the diagram from my post #529 above and use it as the slide.


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## Alecras234 (Jun 3, 2019)

So the Entante had 5 members? Cp had 4


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## Wurger (Jun 3, 2019)

Yes Alec, it can be said in that way. But the base for both pacts were three countries for each.


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## Alecras234 (Jun 3, 2019)

So the alliances were both called triple eceñ though they had more than three countries in each?


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## Wurger (Jun 3, 2019)

Yes.


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## Alecras234 (Jun 5, 2019)

I have made this to help me. what do you think, is the information correct?


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## Wurger (Jun 5, 2019)

Looking good.


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## Alecras234 (Jun 6, 2019)

im not sure what image to have for my first slide ,tanks or soldiers?


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## Wurger (Jun 6, 2019)

What size of the picture do you want to have for the first slide?


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## Alecras234 (Jun 6, 2019)




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## Wurger (Jun 6, 2019)

Looking good but rather unimpressive IMHO. Here are two shots I have prepared for you as the background . You may add your own text eg... the title either at the bottom or above the marching soldiers. What do you think?


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## Alecras234 (Jun 7, 2019)

I've started. I've used that image in first slide with WORLD WAR ONE 1914-1918 underneath the image. i added 2 blank slides, i want to say next about alliances.


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## Alecras234 (Jun 7, 2019)

How do i send you what ive done so far. i've saved my slides in powerpoint but wont send on here


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## Wurger (Jun 7, 2019)

Please use the Private Message system that is called Conversation here. Move the mouse coursor over my nick on the left of my post here. A new small pop-up window will appear. There is the "Start Conversation" button on the left at the bottom, click it and you are moved to the window where you may write your message and the PM title. Also you may attach there your files When all is ready for sending click the Start Conversation button at the bottom of the window.


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## Alecras234 (Jun 21, 2020)

Hi do these sound ok for the whippet tank? I don't know how to word about what happened to musical box. What whippet drove far into enemy lines? Musical box. Can i word that better please?

Where were the Whippet tanks built? Fosters of Lincoln

How many crewed the Whippet? 3

What is the Armament of the Whippet? 4 Hotchkiss machine guns

what is the top speed of a whippet? 8 miles an hour

what was the armour thickness? 12mm

How many whippet tanks built? Around 200

when was the Battle of Amien? 8 August 1918

Where is Caesar 2? Bovington?

why did Cecil Sewell win a VC? For rescuing people trapped inside a burning Whippet

Who was the commander of Caesar 2? - Caesar 2

When was the Whippet's first tank battle? 24 April 1918

When did Caesar 2 go into battle? 29 August 1918


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## Wurger (Jun 21, 2020)

The Musical Box whippet tank just went too far and was cut off behind the German lines. The tank crew was fighting alone for the next nine hours causing a lot of losses to Germans. Finally the tank was damaged seriusly and the crew had to abandon her.

So your point can be ...
What whippet went too far behind the German lines? The Musical Box.

Also the commander of thr Caesar 2 was Cecil Sewell but not the Caesar 2. Just your typo doesn't it? Correct that please.

The other questions sound good


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## Alecras234 (Aug 20, 2020)

Hi is this website accurate about World War One? Battle of Mons


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