# Bad news for the RN!



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 5, 2007)

This don't look good!

Half of Britain's warships to be mothballed - Yahoo! News


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## Glider (Jan 5, 2007)

But its not a suprise. I have always been doubtful over the two carriers and with them the aircraft to equip them.
You need to be aware that since the wars in Iraq and Afganistan began, the defence budget has been reduced and is now the lowest as a percentage of GDP since 1930. When Tony Blair makes all these statements about the support he gives to the troops and how he understands their needs, no one, but no one believes him.


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## twoeagles (Jan 5, 2007)

A very great shame - mothballing a couple of ships is one thing, but HALF
of the fleet? I have always thought the Royal Navy, with is rich traditions
and long history, was a genuine source of pride for the British. 
"Hail Britannia!" will almost seem to be mocking generations of seamen - it is
just difficult to seperate mental images of Great Britain from its naval heritage.


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## Matt308 (Jan 5, 2007)

Don't forget that the UK is building new aircraft carriers (with French) and new missile cruisers (I think) with the French and Italians. The carrier is supposed to complement the JSF procurement and is slated to be 2-3 times larger than Invincible. The new missile cruisers, as I recall, were incorporating stealth technology and sufficient energy reserves for directed energy weapons in future upgrades.

The Trident missile is undergoing upgrades and their subs are slated for replacement in the 2017 timeframe.

Don't know about other support vessels.


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## Glider (Jan 5, 2007)

The carriers have not been ordered, in fact it hasn't even been decided who is going to build them. The missile carriers are our own design and I think only two have been ordered. Subs are only for discussion yet, be very carefull when listening about spending from Labour the detail is always missing


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## Matt308 (Jan 5, 2007)

Interesting, Glider. I thought that I just read the France and UK had agreed upon configuration and funding (ie France going with launch mechanism and UK going with ramp and launch mechanism provisions). Not true?

Agreed with Seawolf upgrade procurement.

And T45 has been built has it not?


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 5, 2007)

twoeagles said:


> "Hail Britannia!" will almost seem to be mocking generations of seamen - it is
> just difficult to seperate mental images of Great Britain from its naval heritage.


It's "Rule Britannia", and you're right. It seems such a damned shame. Once the world's greatest naval force - projection of power, protector of an empire - steadily reduced as it has been over the course of decades, and now...this.


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## Glider (Jan 5, 2007)

Re the Carriers the only contracts that have ben signed are for the demonstration phase. Approval for construction has not been given and is overdue, manufacturing contracts are due in July 2007 and no one is talking about that at the moment. Costs have yet to be agreed between industry and the Goverment although the differences are not that big, £3.6 billion vs £3.8 billion. The Goverment have reserected a demand dropped 4 years ago that the UK shipbuilders restructure their industry as a prerequisit to signing. This is no simple task which will be a long time coming due to its complexity and more than one person thinks this is a stalling strategy to put off ordering the ships.

Re the Type 45 its a UK design as we pulled out of the joint approach in 1999. The govement said that there was a requirement for 12, approved the purchase of 8 and are now expecting that we will only buy 6. There are even hints that Saudi Arabia may want to buy two which will come from the 6 we have on order.


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## Matt308 (Jan 5, 2007)

Crap, I'm thinking of something else besides the Type 45. Is there another destroyer missile boat or some other that is coming on line with France and Italy?


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## mkloby (Jan 5, 2007)

I'm pretty ignorant of British politics in most respects... but what are the results of the last elections held? Doesn't the diminishing defense expenditure bother many brits, affecting labour at the ballot box? How do the liberals and conservatives fare, and what is the anticipated result in upcoming elections? (are those the names of the others parties still?)


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## plan_D (Jan 5, 2007)

The modern British populace cares more about football (soccer) than national pride, and tradition. You have all the louts with tattooes of the Union Jack, or British bulldog - and they're the disgraces to the nation! 

The Royal Navy has been on the downfall for a long while, as has military spending. The Labour are too busy paying for asylum seekers, and throwing money at foreigners ...people may claim money also goes into the education and health too - WRONG. Health, military, education spending are all being cut! But the spending on foreigners is rising each year!


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 6, 2007)

My god. That has an unpleasantly Canadian ring to it.


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## plan_D (Jan 6, 2007)

Oh yes, no offence, but you lot across the pond have no idea how pathetic Britain really is. As a nation we're a disgrace to our own heritage and history. We built our power on industry and military might - and both have been practically abolished. 

You still have the docile "die-hard" lout morons who claim that the U.S Army is crap and the British Army is the best in world. But they're the same kind of people with the British Bulldog tattoo, and telling me that Britain fought Germany and Russia in World War II. 

Every part of Government spending bar on foreign causes is being cut; education, health, military, police, fire. You name it, it's being cut. And the taxes are rising, prices are rising; and the government has the bare faced cheek to stand up on their podium say they're doing it for the British public. 

I don't care if this is considered racist - the White British born and bred are being dump on from great heights ,and they don't even care. Because all they're bothered about is the new "tune" in the charts, whether Man Utd. won or if some slag in a stupidly short skirt and every infection known to man will give 'em head.

And any Brits that disagree and want to tell me to leave the country - well I'm working on it as fast as possible. I'm somewhat ashamed to say it but I am willing to abandon this once great nation to the scum of the Earth. Our heritage will be vandalised, our Castles will burn and our culture will vanish. After ALL those wars, all those defences of these Isles - we've let it just eat away at us like a virus. 

I F*CKING HATE THIS PLACE!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 6, 2007)

Unfortunately i have to agree with pD, I'd never leave the country but this place is messed up, even down here where all minorities make up 2-3% of the population of Cornwall, political correctness is taking controll and stopping people from standing up for the military, but one of our biggest problems is EU membership, it gives us free trade and little else, but how much is "Free" trade costing us? £13 Billion a year! that's not free! the only major powers to trade with in the EU are France and Germany, and does anyone seriously think they'd stop trading with us just because we're not in the EU? France doesn't want to be in either but i dont know about Germany, what else do we get for our £13 Billion, we get a set of laws that over-rides our own, we get ruled from Brussles by a secret meetings of 2,000 un-elected officials that don't act in the interests of our own nation, i'm telling you this is the start of annother communist state the "United States of Europe", mark my words  even Gorbachev has said the EU is becoming a soviet state (Ashley Mote's "Vigilance"), sure there's the elected EU commision but even the USSR had the elected Supreme Soviet, like the EU Commision they just rubber stamp things, there's nothing we get with the EU that we can't get for free outside of it, nothing! and what could we do with the extra £13 Billion? without increasing taxes we could completely sort out the NHS and Armed Forces in one year!


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 6, 2007)

Like I said, it all has an unpleasantly familiar ring to it.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 6, 2007)

Wow it is worse off than I thought.


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## mkloby (Jan 6, 2007)

plan_D said:


> The modern British populace cares more about football (soccer) than national pride, and tradition. You have all the louts with tattooes of the Union Jack, or British bulldog - and they're the disgraces to the nation!
> 
> The Royal Navy has been on the downfall for a long while, as has military spending. The Labour are too busy paying for asylum seekers, and throwing money at foreigners ...people may claim money also goes into the education and health too - WRONG. Health, military, education spending are all being cut! But the spending on foreigners is rising each year!



Those folks in california are all about spending state funds to provide healthcare to even illegals, attempting to establish a socialist healthcare system in the state. From what I remember it was vetoed a while back by the gov, but I don't know what happened to it since.


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## Matt308 (Jan 6, 2007)

Sorry to hear about that Plan D. You are welcome to come over here while you wait it out. Things will come around. They always do. At some point they will step over the line.


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## Emac44 (Jan 6, 2007)

i didn't realize that the RN was in such dire problems nor the rest of the British Military with such long and historical records as the Army and the Navy of Great Britian and the inclusion of the traditions of the Royal Air Force. I did know of the long standing  with the EU with many englishmen and women who have found the EU a right royal pain in the arse. especially when they have had to fund out of their own taxes other countries with poor economic track records in the EU. I knew of the distrust of immigrants coming to England say from Middle Eastern or Islamic Asian origins etc. Rule Britiania seems a hollow song now my Commonwealth friends. Even though we chide the English here in Australia especially in sports like the recent Ashes Series many of us still find ourselves loyal to the Empire that England set up due to our origins coming from the UK. we might not admit it openly and call them POMS etc we are the product of the UK from England Ireland Scotland and Wales. we can disavow our links to the UK but we can never disavow our heritiage. even though some of us would like to and the political correct in society would have us do so. am i proud of my Scottish Heritage. bloody oath i am. am i proud being an Australian. same again bloody oath i am. am i proud of being a part of a once great empire a colonial yes i am bloody oath. to my English mates here in this forum. come to Aussie. we may not be perfect but at least we know how to spell and talk in slang like you poms and the weather is a bit better at times and we play the same sports as you lot mostly and we will teach you that winners are grinners. one thing i would personally like to see more english immigrate here any way than the Islamic types we have been getting recently and to hell with the political correctness that some would have me live by


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## plan_D (Jan 6, 2007)

The real old British minds of these Isles love the U.S, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. More and more people are emigrating from Britain each year, and one of the four nations mentioned above are where they are going. All the scum get left behind in Britain. 

The nation is full of louts who claim the nation as "their Britain" but they're one of the worst parts of it and then we have all the immigrants who are draining the nation dry of money and culture. 
And all the leftists just claim it's a mulit-cultural society and we all live alongisde one another. Anyone from Britain want to point out a truly mixed society in Britain? All the immigrants live amongst themselves in their own little areas, they don't mix. And certainly most of them don't work. So you get all the scum bag British copying them and live off my taxes! 

I don't really care that I'll be paid that much with my EASA license, I'm just glad that it's a license to get me out of this country.


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## Matt308 (Jan 6, 2007)

While I do have to say that I am anti-Illegal, I do have to admit that those that are coming to the US for the most part are wanting to better themselves. While there are exceptions, most (from Latin America) do make an attempt to work, are family oriented and wanting to better themselves.

I am more worried about US policies that grant citizenship, social benefits, and healthcare based upon spitting out kids. This has to stop. Otherwise the demographics of those coming into America will quickly change from those willing to give, to those willing to receive. [See also Plan D's plight.]


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## mkloby (Jan 6, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> While I do have to say that I am anti-Illegal, I do have to admit that those that are coming to the US for the most part are wanting to better themselves. While there are exceptions, most (from Latin America) do make an attempt to work, are family oriented and wanting to better themselves.
> 
> I am more worried about US policies that grant citizenship, social benefits, and healthcare based upon spitting out kids. This has to stop. Otherwise the demographics of those coming into America will quickly change from those willing to give, to those willing to receive. [See also Plan D's plight.]



Oh matt would you be referring to the complete bastardization of the 14th Amendment, which was intended to provide undeniable constitutional grounds for granting citizenship to freed slaves? That anchor baby tactic is a flat out circumvention of the laws of the US.


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## fjray (Jan 6, 2007)

I read piece on, think it was Cdr Salamander, that the RN is also going to freeze promotions above the rank of LCDR. There was speculation this is just an idea being floated and not approved yet.


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## mkloby (Jan 6, 2007)

fjray said:


> I read piece on, think it was Cdr Salamander, that the RN is also going to freeze promotions above the rank of LCDR. There was speculation this is just an idea being floated and not approved yet.



That would not be good for morale...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 7, 2007)

> those that are coming to the US for the most part are wanting to better themselves. While there are exceptions, most (from Latin America) do make an attempt to work, are family oriented and wanting to better themselves.



none of that here, most come to our country because of our benifits system, what's even worse is that some of them are willing to work and do some terrible jobs for less than the minimum wage just because it's better than their home land, yet many Brits don't work at all and go to collect their dole money every week to spend it on White Lightning (cheap but strong cider) and going out on a saturday night, and with Bulgaria and Romania joining the EU we can only expect more immigrants..............


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## Emac44 (Jan 7, 2007)

Lanc that is part of the problem here with illegal migrants coming here. particularly boat people and people smugglers etc. some would except them readily instead of detaining them in detention centres to be processed properly etc. we have definite laws here about illegal migration here yet some see it as a useless law and detaining people as morally wrong on ethical grounds etc. for example protesters outside the detention centres and legal challenges in the courts. these protestors mind you are mostly unemployed and collect dole money as well and a burden on the Australian Tax Payer. its what we call professional protestors and bludgers and would protest on killing flies etc if you get the idea and mix that with the politically corrected society as well you can imagine to a person like myself i find them more than annoying. it even goes to the extend that people are feeling sorry for David Hicks. who has been held in Gito bay for 5 years as a insurgent with the talibhan in Afghanistan. he got caught serving with the Talibhan by the US troops and has been in Gito Bay since then and is awaiting trial. needless to say he left Australia to join the talibhan threw his Aussie Citizenship down the toilet committed treason etc and had his happy arse caught by the Americans and is awaiting trial. He even tried to claim British Citezenship via his Mothers passport. which was denied and expects to be treated fairly and wants to become an Australian Citizen again and expects the Australian Government to get his happy little arse out of deep ****. Hello he committed treason he served as an insurgent with the talibhan he threw his citizenship out the window when he found it convient and now wants to have a trail and be brought home to Australia and act like all is forgiven etc. not bloody likely. as far as i am concerned the Americans can keep him the bloody traitor


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## mkloby (Jan 7, 2007)

Certain elements here demand that captured terrorists be treated in accordance w/ geneva conventions - they seem to forget that they are not uniformed men. They also want them afforded all protections under the US Constitution. Coercive interrogation techniques are called torture and thus termed as cruel and unusual punishment...


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## Matt308 (Jan 7, 2007)

Can you imagine if every fascist German, Italian or Japanese soldier was given a lawyer and their day in court during WWII. Good Lord.


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## Gnomey (Jan 7, 2007)

That would of meant a lot of paperwork amoung other things. Here is a link to the petition to the PM to Save the Navy: We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to stop the destruction of the Royal Navy and spend the defence budget more wisely.


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## HealzDevo (Jan 7, 2007)

Yes, Britain has been totally infiltrated by the Middle East and now we are seeing the results. Keep them out of everywhere else for Democracy's Sake!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 9, 2007)

signed that petition........


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