# North American P-51 Mustang (2 Viewers)



## Snautzer01 (Jan 25, 2015)

Poor thing gets gas then...

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## Wurger (Jan 25, 2015)




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## vikingBerserker (Jan 25, 2015)




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## bobbysocks (Jan 25, 2015)

that's funny. what reason was the jet fitted to the 51?


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## Wayne Little (Jan 26, 2015)

Nothing to do with Blazing Saddles then?

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## Gnomey (Jan 27, 2015)

Nice shot! Thanks for sharing.


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## GrauGeist (Jan 27, 2015)

bobbysocks said:


> that's funny. what reason was the jet fitted to the 51?


It was actually conceived as a means of "flash acceleration" in response to the Me262 threat.

There were two test aircraft, both were P-51D-25 airframes (44-73099 44-74050) and the rocket was an acid-aniline rocket motor that was fed by Red fuming nitric acid, carried in a special tank under the port wing and an aniline-alcohol mixture, carried in a tank under the starboard wing.

The fuel mixture was extremely volitile and could prove to be dangerous in a ground error and/or combat, plus the tests did not produce satisfactory results, so it never developed any further.

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## bobbysocks (Jan 28, 2015)

that was kind of what i was thinking. to give them a chance to get a 262 in range long enough to take a couple shots at....OR they were looking at taking off of very short strip or carrier fully loaded. thanks GG

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## GrauGeist (Jan 28, 2015)

The concept was a direct result of the German's jet and rocket aircraft threat and it would never work on a carrier, as the rocket's exhaust would destroy the carrier's deck...

I imagine the exhaust would have been pretty rough on an asphalt runway, too

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 13, 2016)



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## Wurger (Sep 13, 2016)




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## Old Wizard (Sep 13, 2016)




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## Snautzer01 (Sep 20, 2016)

Standing in line: P-51 mustang 1st Air Command ~ Karachi India

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## Wurger (Sep 20, 2016)




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## Old Wizard (Sep 20, 2016)




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## Snautzer01 (Sep 21, 2016)

P-51 smokelaying

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## Wurger (Sep 21, 2016)




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## Old Wizard (Sep 21, 2016)




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## Snautzer01 (Sep 23, 2016)

5th AF Fighter Command 35th Group


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## Wurger (Sep 23, 2016)




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## Dana Bell (Sep 23, 2016)

By coincidence, yesterday I found some docs on the jet equipped P-51 at the Archvies - the aircraft was described as an anti-Buzz Bomb modification.

Cheers,


Dana


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 25, 2016)

Laobwangping Airfield China (now that would be a diorama)

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## Wurger (Sep 25, 2016)




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## Old Wizard (Sep 25, 2016)

Nice China shot and of the Chinese people who maintained the airfields.

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 26, 2016)

Kanchow, China


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## Wurger (Sep 26, 2016)




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## Old Wizard (Sep 26, 2016)




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## Snautzer01 (Sep 28, 2016)

14th AF China 8-16-44


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## Wurger (Sep 28, 2016)




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## Old Wizard (Sep 28, 2016)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 2, 2016)

311th FBW Kumitola Burma 1944


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## Wurger (Oct 2, 2016)




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## Old Wizard (Oct 2, 2016)




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## Wayne Little (Oct 3, 2016)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 14, 2016)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 14, 2016)




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## Capt. Vick (Oct 14, 2016)

Wow! That's low!


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## Wurger (Oct 14, 2016)




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## Airframes (Oct 14, 2016)

Great shots !
I wonder what the story is behind the pics - a movie maybe, or just a low 'buzz job' ??


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## Old Wizard (Oct 14, 2016)




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## Gnomey (Oct 20, 2016)

Good shots!


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## Wayne Little (Oct 21, 2016)

Nice,,,,getting right down...


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## johnbr (Nov 5, 2016)




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## Old Wizard (Nov 6, 2016)




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## Snautzer01 (Nov 10, 2016)

Chinese airforce


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## Wurger (Nov 10, 2016)




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## johnbr (Nov 10, 2016)



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## johnbr (Nov 10, 2016)



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## Wurger (Nov 11, 2016)




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## Old Wizard (Nov 11, 2016)




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## Snautzer01 (Dec 2, 2016)

T9+PK was found at Goslar by American troops at the end of the war

Captured beute

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## Wayne Little (Dec 2, 2016)

Nice shot.


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## Wurger (Dec 2, 2016)




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## Old Wizard (Dec 2, 2016)




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## fubar57 (Dec 8, 2016)

Nice


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## Gnomey (Dec 12, 2016)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 12, 2017)

P-51D-5-NA Sky Bouncer, Alice Marie 44-13568 (375th FS, 361st FG) crashed during wheels-up belly landing at Chievres Airfield A-84 Casteau, Belgium Apr 3, 1945. Pilot survived but aircraft was destroyed.

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## Wurger (Feb 12, 2017)

Nice. But it seems the pic is upside down and rather should be ...

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 12, 2017)

I like it more as it was, more dramatic and fitting with sky bouncer.


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## Wurger (Feb 12, 2017)

Grasped.


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## Old Wizard (Feb 12, 2017)




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## Crimea_River (Feb 13, 2017)

Thanks for flipping it Wojtek Bugged me as well.


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 14, 2017)

78th Fighter Group P-51 Fighter Planes Lined Up; England 1943

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## Wurger (Aug 14, 2017)




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## Wayne Little (Aug 14, 2017)

Like that shot...


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## fubar57 (Aug 14, 2017)

Soooooooooooo many Mustangs. This is what I've found about that shot........."P-51D Mustangs, mostly from the 78th Fighter Group, in storage at Duxford Aerodrome, England, Summer 1945. Most of these aircraft were returned to the United States or used by USAFE units in Germany."

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## Old Wizard (Aug 14, 2017)




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## johnbr (Aug 31, 2017)

he flight-test program was progressing nicely when Vance Breese, who was a civilian freelance test pilot, handed the NA-73X over to NAA test pilot Paul Balfour. Breese made no secret of his low opinion of Balfour’s abilities, even going as far as to make a bet that he would crash the NA-73X on his first flight. Unfortunately his prophecy proved correct. While on his first familiarization flight, Balfour crashed on approach to Mines Field on November 20, 1940. Part of the flight was to make a high-speed pass over Mines Field to test the NA-73X’s speed between two timing points. After making the first high-speed pass, Balfour forgot to switch fuel tanks. After only being airborne for 12 minutes, the aircraft ran out of fuel and suddenly became a glider. Attempting to turn towards the active runway, Balfour lost height too quickly. With its undercarriage down, the NA-73X landed in a cultivated field and, on touching the soft ground, turned over on its back trapping Balfour in the cockpit. Luckily, the machine did not catchfire, giving his rescuers time to dig him out. With just 3 hours and 20 minutes flying time under its belt, the aircraft was seriously damaged and would not be back in the air until January 1941. Schmued attempted to brief Balfour on the takeoff and flight-test procedure before Balfour flew, but he refused to listen, saying that “one airplane was like another.”

By the time the NA-73X returned to the air, the flight-test program had been handed over to Robert C. “Bob” Chilton, who would continue to test all variants of the P-51 during World War II. Chilton flew the fighter for the first time on April 3, 1941 and would fly the NA-73X on another 12 occasions. Only one other NAA test pilot is recorded as flying the NA-73X before the aircraft was grounded, namely Louis Wait.

While the NA-73X was being repaired, the RAF had come up with a name for the aircraft that would be adopted universally. Having considered the name “Apache” suggested by NAA, the RAF chose “Mustang.” After the US entered World War II, many pilots flying the A-36 dive-bomber version of the airplane wanted to adopt the name “Apache” to set it apart from the fighter model, which was then known as the P-51. The name was unofficially adopted, but as US forces in western Europe progressed towards Italy the name “Invader” was also suggested for the A-36 when a 27th FBG (Fighter Bomber Group) pilot said “it keeps invading places.” However, despite these unofficial names associated with the A-36, the aircraft was always officially known as a “Mustang.”

The NA-73X continued to operate as part of the NAA’s development program until July 15, 1941, when it was grounded indefinitely. It was destined to be the only prototype of the Mustang. The only other pre-production aircraft was a static-test airframe that is occasionally referred to as the XX-73. This served its purpose by being tested to destruction in January 1941 after the wing structure failed at a point 5 percent higher than the design load.

The ground-breaking prototype spent the remainder of its days at Inglewood before allegedly being donated to a school located near the NAA factory. Whatever the aircraft’s fate, this innovative and beautiful machine eventually met an undignified end as scrap.

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## johnbr (Aug 31, 2017)

Test pilot Robert C. Chilton with the North American Aviation prototype NA- 73X


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## Wurger (Aug 31, 2017)




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## Wayne Little (Aug 31, 2017)




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## Old Wizard (Aug 31, 2017)




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## johnbr (Sep 2, 2017)

One-half right front close-up view from slightly below of North American P-51B (F-51B) Mustang (s/n 43-12246; c/n 24694) in flight. Aircraft has markings of the Flight Test Squadron at Eglin Field, Florida, painted on the nose.

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## Old Wizard (Sep 3, 2017)




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## Dana Bell (Sep 3, 2017)

johnbr said:


> One-half right front close-up view from slightly below of North American P-51B (F-51B) Mustang (s/n 43-12246; c/n 24694) in flight. Aircraft has markings of the Flight Test Squadron at Eglin Field, Florida, painted on the nose.
> View attachment 382062



Nice shot, John, but your source misidentified the aircraft - it's P-51A-10 43-6246. (Note the carb intake atop the cowl.)

Cheers,


Dana

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## Wurger (Sep 3, 2017)

Agree that's the kite.


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## fubar57 (Sep 3, 2017)

Good shots and catch. Did a reverse image search and 2 sites say the picture is from the Smithsonian Inst. collection and one says National Air and Space Museum


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## Dana Bell (Sep 3, 2017)

fubar57 said:


> Good shots and catch. Did a reverse image search and 2 sites say the picture is from the Smithsonian Inst. collection and one says National Air and Space Museum



Indeed, Fubar,

The photographer was Hans Groenhoff, which sort of invalidates the Pete Bowers copyright that the Aerofiles site put on his copy photo.

Cheers,



Dana


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## johnbr (Oct 22, 2017)

*North American XP-51G Mustang*

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## Wurger (Oct 22, 2017)




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## johnbr (Jun 17, 2018)



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## Wurger (Jun 17, 2018)




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## johnbr (Jun 17, 2018)

The Mustang Mk.I was powered by a liquid-cooled, supercharged 1,710.597-cubic-inch-displacement (28.032 liter) Allison Engineering Company V-1710-F3R (V-1710-39) single overhead cam (SOHC) 60° V-12 engine with a compression ratio of 6.65:1. The -F3R had a Maximum Continuous Power rating of 880 horsepower at 2,600 r.p.m. at Sea level, and 1,000 horsepower at 11,000 feet (3,353 meters). It was rated at 1,150 horsepower at 3,000 r.p.m. for Take Off and Military Power. The Allison V-12 drove a 10 foot, 9 inch (3.277 meter) diameter, three-bladed Curtiss Electric constant-speed propeller through a 2.00:1 gear reduction. The V-1710-F3R was 7 feet, 4.38 inches (2.245 meters) long, 3 feet, 0.54 inches (0.928 meters) high, and 2 feet, 5.29 inches (0.734 meters) wide. It weighed 1,310 pounds (594 kilograms).

The Mustang Mk.I had a cruise speed of 311 miles per hour (500.5 kilometers per hour) at 75% power, and a maximum speed of 384 miles per hour (618 kilometers per hour) at 19,000 feet (5,791 meters). The airplane could reach 20,000 feet (6,096 meters) in 8.80 minutes. The service ceiling was 32,000 feet (9,754 meters) and its range was 640 miles (1,030 kilometers).

The Mk.I was equipped with four Browning AN-M2 .50-caliber machine guns, with one in each wing and two mounted in the nose under the engine. Four Browning .303 Mk.II machine guns were also installed, with two in each wing.


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## Wurger (Jun 17, 2018)




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## Gnomey (Jun 20, 2018)

Good shots!


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## Capt. Vick (Jun 20, 2018)

johnbr said:


> View attachment 497955



Nice A-36 Apache/Invader?


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## Wayne Little (Jun 20, 2018)

Cool.


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## johnbr (Jun 30, 2018)

P-51 Mustang IA fighter, intended for delivery to the UK under the Lend-Lease Act (20-mm Hispano Mk.II gun), is assembled at the North American plant in Los Angeles, California.

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## Wurger (Jun 30, 2018)




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## Navalwarrior (Jul 2, 2018)

johnbr said:


> View attachment 497955


Resp:
The photo is of an A-36A. The dead giveaway are the extended wing dive breaks. Also, a MkI would have three guns in each wing; a 50 cal between two 303 MG. The wing hard points have yet to be installed.


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## wuzak (Jul 2, 2018)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> The photo is of an A-36A. The dead giveaway are the extended wing dive breaks. Also, a MkI would have three guns in each wing; a 50 cal between two 303 MG. The wing hard points have yet to be installed.



You mean the flaps?


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## Navalwarrior (Jul 3, 2018)

wuzak said:


> You mean the flaps?


Resp:
No. The first Mustang photo (assembly line) shows dive breaks (top and bottom) extended on the wings. It is an A-36A. Flaps only extend below the wing.


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## wuzak (Jul 3, 2018)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> No. The first Mustang photo (assembly line) shows dive breaks (top and bottom) extended on the wings. It is an A-36A. Flaps only extend below the wing.



My mistake, I thought you were commenting on post #88.

PS: why do you write "Resp:" before each post? Is it short for "response"? If so, it isn't required.

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## Gnomey (Jul 3, 2018)

Nice shots!


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## johnbr (Jul 7, 2018)




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## Navalwarrior (Jul 7, 2018)

johnbr said:


> View attachment 500849
> View attachment 500848


Resp:
The first photo looks to be a non-production P-51F (?).
The diagram is an Allison engined Mustang (air scoop on upper nose) a MkI (?). Definitely not an A-36A (no dive brakes) or P-51A. There are no wing hard points for drop tanks/bombs. Why NA 103? (It doesn't belong)


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## johnbr (Jul 7, 2018)

It looks to me to have a 5 prop.

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## Navalwarrior (Jul 7, 2018)

johnbr said:


> It looks to me to have a 5 prop.


Resp:
I noticed that. The photos I've seen were with a 3 bladed propeller. It may be an F being tested to see how much + or - effect a 5 bladed prop has. It was my understanding that the 'F' was a variant initiated by the British to see if the weight could get down to what a Spitfire weighed. The elongated (ugly) canopy was to reduce drag.


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## fubar57 (Jul 7, 2018)

That is the XP-51G. From Joe Baugher's site...North American XP-51F, G, J Mustang


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## Wurger (Jul 7, 2018)

Yep..





the pic source: the net.


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## fubar57 (Jul 7, 2018)

Cross posted with you Wojtek


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## Wurger (Jul 7, 2018)

I see.As memo serves these XP-51G Mustangs were 43-43335 and 43-43336 and contrary to the F variant were powered with the RR Merlin 14SM engine.







( from my previous post )





The pic source: the net.


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## Navalwarrior (Jul 7, 2018)

fubar57 said:


> That is the XP-51G. From Joe Baugher's site...North American XP-51F, G, J Mustang


Resp: 
Good call fubar. I would like to ask you all knowing types a question or two about the Goodyear F4U; 1) what variant and in what mo/year did they start building a fixed wing Corsair; 2) how much less did it weight; 3) was range or performance affected? I would think the lack of hinges and motors would be a significant weight reduction. 4) Would it have allowed room for expanded fuel tanks?


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## Wurger (Jul 7, 2018)

Al;so found this.. Review: P-51 In Action | IPMS/USA Reviews


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## wuzak (Jul 7, 2018)

Confusion as to the engine.

In Wurger's article it stated 14S.M, but in the caption it said 145M.

The Merlin in question was an RM.14SM - which is the rating for some of the 100-series Merlins. The first Packard 100-series engine was the V-1650-9.
R = Rolls-Royce
M = Merlin
14 = rating
S = supercharged, aka fully supercharged (ie high altitude)
M = medium supercharged

The other 100-series ratings, that I know of, was the RM.16SM and RM.17SM.

Merlin 113 and 114 were rated RM.16SM. They were used in some late model Mosquitoes.
The Merlin 130/131 of teh de Havilland Hornet were RM.14SM.

RM.17SM was type tested but never went into service and no production engines were built, so no mark number was assigned.

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## Wurger (Jul 8, 2018)

Just a typo. Sorry for confusing.


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## wuzak (Jul 8, 2018)

Wurger said:


> Just a typo. Sorry for confusing.



Not a problem. 

But it wasn't just you - that book has it both ways.


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## Wurger (Jul 8, 2018)

When I saw your note I had a look at a couple of books on my shelf. And I have to agree both ways can be found. Also thinking the shape of the "S" letter and the digit "5" is very similar. This can cause the confusion if one had made a mistake typping it wromgly.


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## johnbr (Jul 22, 2018)

P-51 wood wheels. and Navel p-51h

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## johnbr (Jul 22, 2018)



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## Wurger (Jul 22, 2018)




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## johnbr (Jul 22, 2018)



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## Wurger (Jul 22, 2018)




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## Crimea_River (Jul 22, 2018)

...and the wooden wheels are because....?

Oh wait. It's a British plane. Never mind then.


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## Navalwarrior (Jul 22, 2018)

johnbr said:


> View attachment 502852
> View attachment 502839


Resp:
Actually, the aircraft with wooden wheels is a Mustang MkIA (note two tone camofage upper; USAAF P-51/F6A had upper green surfaces).


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## Gnomey (Jul 25, 2018)

Nice shots Guys!


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## johnbr (Aug 3, 2018)

Cutaway p-51h


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## Navalwarrior (Aug 3, 2018)

johnbr said:


> Cutaway p-51h
> View attachment 504123


Resp:
If I remember correctly, there were 555 'H' models produced. None ever saw combat, although P-51H Mustangs were en route to the PTO via ship when the war ended. I often wondered why no 'H' models ever served in Korea. Various US Air National Guard units were still flying D, K and H models. When the allies occupied mainland Japan, about 100 P-51D/Ks were mothballed there when jet fighters began to replace piston engine ones. It was these local Mustangs that were quickly brought back to combat readiness, in the ground support role. Since Mustangs were eventually sent to Korea from the US, I would have thought some 'H' models would have been used. Wing loading not up to par?


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## Gnomey (Aug 3, 2018)

Good stuff!


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## johnbr (Aug 19, 2018)



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## Wurger (Aug 19, 2018)




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## johnbr (Sep 21, 2018)

P-51 "Mustang" fighter in flight near the Inglewood, California, plant of North American Aviation. October 1942. 4x5 Kodachrome transparency

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 21, 2018)

johnbr said:


> P-51 "Mustang" fighter in flight near the Inglewood, California, plant of North American Aviation. October 1942. 4x5 Kodachrome transparency
> View attachment 510278


Resp:
This aircraft was taken from the Second order for the British. 57 Mustang MkI aircraft were held back just after the attack on Pearl Harbor. The USAAF initially designated them as P-51-1 (& -2), but most were fitted with cameras for the Photo-Recon mission and redesignated as F-6A. Although most if not all kept the black stenciling just forward of the canopy on the left fuselage of 'P-51-1 NA.' Armament retained the four wing mounted 20mm cannon.

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## johnbr (Sep 21, 2018)

October 1942. Inglewood, California. "Employees at North American Aviation, Incorporated, assembling the cowling on Allison motors for the P-51 'Mustang' fighter planes." 4x5 inch Kodachrome transparency

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## Wurger (Sep 22, 2018)




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## Gnomey (Sep 24, 2018)

Nice shots!


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## johnbr (Oct 20, 2018)




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## Wurger (Oct 20, 2018)




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## Navalwarrior (Oct 20, 2018)

johnbr said:


> View attachment 513820



A CBI P-51C (or B), but why? Contain fuel, water or napalm?


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## Capt. Vick (Oct 20, 2018)

Chem trials?

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## fubar57 (Oct 21, 2018)

P-51B/C of the 16th Sq,14th AF, in China. Possibly old P-40 drop tanks converted to napalm bombs as this unit flew them before getting Mustangs


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## Steph Jung (Nov 16, 2018)

Just right regarding napalm tanks. If you look closely at the photo, to the left of the filler pipe is a cylindrical device which is the igniter. The mount it is attached to is non-standard (probably from another aircraft P-40?) and the wooden braces are there to keep the tanks steady. On the regular (inside) mount there are integral sway braces built into it.


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## Wildr1 (Nov 19, 2018)




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## Wurger (Nov 19, 2018)




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## Gnomey (Nov 27, 2018)

Good shots guys!


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## MiTasol (Dec 8, 2018)

spot the anomaly


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## MiTasol (Dec 8, 2018)

johnbr said:


> View attachment 513820


Interesting as the fuel delivery pipe has not been connected to anything.
Still being worked out? Or was the outboard tank intended to carry cargo or a camera?


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## MiTasol (Dec 8, 2018)

Steph Jung said:


> Just right regarding napalm tanks. If you look closely at the photo, to the left of the filler pipe is a cylindrical device which is the igniter. The mount it is attached to is non-standard (probably from another aircraft P-40?) and the wooden braces are there to keep the tanks steady. On the regular (inside) mount there are integral sway braces built into it.


The item to the left is the fuel delivery (outlet) and the right angled one to the left of that is the vent fitting.


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## Gnomey (Dec 17, 2018)

Nice shots guys!


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## johnbr (Dec 27, 2018)




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## Tony Kambic (Dec 28, 2018)

View attachment 354797


The gun ports are covered and it appears to have a modified canopy, possibly for a second person.


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## johnbr (Jan 4, 2019)

P-51h


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## Wurger (Jan 4, 2019)




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## johnbr (Jan 6, 2019)



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## MIflyer (Jan 6, 2019)

Here is some more on it.

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## MIflyer (Jan 6, 2019)

And here are the last few.

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 4, 2019)

USAAF P-51 348th Fighter Group Luzon Philippines 1945 1 COLOR SLIDE No Photo | eBay


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## Wurger (Feb 4, 2019)




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## johnbr (Feb 4, 2019)




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## Wurger (Feb 4, 2019)




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## MIflyer (Feb 4, 2019)

From Aviation Magazine Feb 1943.


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## MIflyer (Feb 4, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 5, 2019)

WW2 Picture Photo As depicted on the nose art of a United States Air Force 2502 | eBay


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## Wurger (Feb 5, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 12, 2019)

Foto luftwaffe Mustang p51 US Feindflug | eBay
Foto luftwaffe Mustang p51 US Feindflug | eBay


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## Wurger (Feb 12, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 19, 2019)

WWII 8TH AIR FORCE 357TH FIGHTER GROUP VINTAGE WWII PERIOD PHOTOGRAPH - 2" x 2" | eBay


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## Wurger (Feb 19, 2019)




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## Gnomey (Feb 20, 2019)

Cool shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 25, 2019)

*WWII photo- P-51 Mustang Fighter plane Nose Art w/ Kills- DAISY MAE* - 1 | eBay
*WWII photo- P-51 Mustang Fighter plane Nose Art w/ Kills- DAISY MAE* - 2 | eBay

Notice swastika on hood.

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## Wurger (Feb 25, 2019)




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## MIflyer (Feb 25, 2019)

Two seat Collins P-51B gets a new engine.

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## Gnomey (Feb 25, 2019)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 6, 2019)

Vintage Black & White 4x6 photo US Army Spitfire w/451st Bomb Group 1945 | eBay

P-51C-10-NT "Betty Jane"

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## Wurger (Mar 6, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Mar 6, 2019)

WWII AAF 357th Fighter Group P 51 Mustang Nose Art Miss Marvel photo | eBay


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## Wurger (Mar 6, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Mar 6, 2019)

WWII AAF 357th Fighter Group P 51 Mustang photo tail number 413735 | eBay

(Joseph F. Baugher) 44-13735 (357th FG, 362nd FS) suffered wing failure while engaging enemy fighters over Burkersroda, Germany and crashed Nov 2, 1944. Pilot KIA.

pic 2 source Mustang Aces of the 357th Fighter Group, Chris Bucholtz


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## Wurger (Mar 6, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Mar 6, 2019)

WWII AAF 357th Fighter Group P 51 Mustang Prop damage wreck photo lot of 4 | eBay
WWII AAF 357th Fighter Group Passion Wagon P 51 Mustang Nose Art photo lot of 2 | eBay

P-51D-5-NA #44-13691, which was nicknamed "Passion Wagon Mustang! - Passion Wagon profile


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## Wurger (Mar 6, 2019)




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## Gnomey (Mar 6, 2019)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 11, 2019)

USAAF P-51 348th Fighter Group Luzon Philippines 1945 1 COLOR SLIDE No Photo | eBay


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## Wurger (Mar 11, 2019)




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## Gnomey (Mar 12, 2019)

Good stuff!


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## fubar57 (Mar 13, 2019)

Some nice shots


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## Snautzer01 (May 2, 2019)

WWII US - American Women working on P51 Mustang Assembly Line - Press Photo 1944 | eBay


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## Navalwarrior (May 2, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> WWII US - American Women working on P51 Mustang Assembly Line - Press Photo 1944 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 536778


Resp:
Either a P-51B or C (note two guns farings in each wing & Merlin engine). Note B-25s at left.


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## Snautzer01 (May 2, 2019)

Think it is a C model notice lamp in right wing.


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## Wurger (May 2, 2019)




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## Navalwarrior (May 2, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Think it is a C model notice lamp in right wing.


Resp:
Very good. That means it was assembled in Dallas, TX. The first real 'C' model I ever saw (in the flesh) was in Harlingen, TX in 1968 in a hanger used by the Confederate Air Force. The fuselage was propped up on 55 gal drums at the rear of the hanger, with the wings lying flat on the floor. The story is that this Mustang was stored in a Montana barn after it was purchased from the Govt post WWII. It remained in the hanger until around the mid 1960s, later to be acquired by the CAF. Since funds were in short supply (seeking out other rare aircraft) this 'C' model wasn't refurbished until the 1980s and displayed in the markings of the Tuskegee Airmen. I cannot remember the tact number, but it was never fitted with a dorsal fin.


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## Snautzer01 (May 4, 2019)

*WWII photo- 325th Fighter Group- P 51 Fighter plane Nose Art- EILEEN HONEY* | eBay

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## Wurger (May 4, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (May 14, 2019)

FOTO FLUGZEUG P-51D MUSTANG SCHWEDISCHE LUFTWAFFE | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (May 14, 2019)

FOTO FLUGZEUG MUSTANG Mk 4 403 (FB) SQUADRON ROYAL CANADIEN AIR FORCE | eBay

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## Wayne Little (May 14, 2019)




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## Navalwarrior (May 14, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> FOTO FLUGZEUG P-51D MUSTANG SCHWEDISCHE LUFTWAFFE | eBay
> 
> View attachment 538169


Resp:


Snautzer01 said:


> FOTO FLUGZEUG P-51D MUSTANG SCHWEDISCHE LUFTWAFFE | eBay
> 
> View attachment 538169


Resp:
Nice photos. The Swedish Mustang photo is post WWII? A few years ago I visited a flying museum in Houston, TX and saw up close three P-51Ds. One was a P-51D-5NA that is likely the oldest airworthy D model. At some point, it was retro fitted with a dorsal fin, common to all subsequent built D models. The mechanic (who was working on the engine) never realized the aircraft's significance, other than it still had the original propeller. He said that the museum owner would surely like to know this tidbit.

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## fubar57 (May 14, 2019)

43 were delivered in April 23 '45 and there were already two Bs and two Ds in active service

EDIT: some serial numbers here.....http://wildbillcrump.com/images/DELIVERING MUSTANGS.pdf

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## Wurger (May 14, 2019)




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## Navalwarrior (May 14, 2019)

fubar57 said:


> 43 were delivered in April 23 '45 and there were already two Bs and two Ds in active service
> 
> EDIT: some serial numbers here.....http://wildbillcrump.com/images/DELIVERING MUSTANGS.pdf


Resp:
Aside from the K's Aeroproducts propeller, when did non-cuffed propellers begin to be used on P-51Ds?


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## MIflyer (May 14, 2019)

D models were refurbed for use in Korea and were equipped with Aeroproducts props at that time. Postwar they found that the cuffs allowed water to get between the cuff and the prop and promote corrosion, so they were removed even on Ham Standard props.

A friend of mine, a WWII and postwar maintenance chief, pointed out that a major reason for the cuffs was to streamline the base of the prop, which was more or less just cylindrical and thus not very aerodynamic.

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## Navalwarrior (May 15, 2019)

MIflyer said:


> D models were refurbed for use in Korea and were equipped with Aeroproducts props at that time. Postwar they found that the cuffs allowed water to get between the cuff and the prop and promote corrosion, so they were removed even on Ham Standard props.
> 
> A friend of mine, a WWII and postwar maintenance chief, pointed out that a major reason for the cuffs was to streamline the base of the prop, which was more or less just cylindrical and thus not very aerodynamic.


Resp:
I read many years ago that the USAF(F?) mothballed 100 P-51D/K Mustangs in Japan (occupation force) after fighter jets phased out prop types. This P-51s were refurbished when the Korean War began. National Guard F-51D/K's were used to supplement/replace these Japanese stored Mustangs. I wonder if any of the 100 still had 'cuffed' propellers.


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## Snautzer01 (May 22, 2019)

Original slide J-2113 North American P-51D Mustang Swiss Air Force, 1972 | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (May 22, 2019)

coming soon


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## Peter Gunn (May 22, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Original slide J-2113 North American P-51D Mustang Swiss Air Force, 1972 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 539049


I'm embarrassed to admit it but I must ask what that little bulge/scoop is directly in front of the windscreen? Is there an access panel there that is open?


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## Navalwarrior (May 22, 2019)

Peter Gunn said:


> I'm embarrassed to admit it but I must ask what that little bulge/scoop is directly in front of the windscreen? Is there an access panel there that is open?


Resp:
Good eye! First time I have seen that, and I have spent much time around Mustangs. Also, this Mustang appears to have a non-cuffed propeller.


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## Wurger (May 22, 2019)

The small air intake in front of the cockpit is a Swiss modification for providing additional fresh air to the cockpit. And yest there is a such panel.

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## Wurger (May 22, 2019)

Regarding the prop .. I would say it is still the Hamilton-Standard HS 24D50-87 cuffed one. Just it stopped at position the pic makes the impression of the non-cuffed blades. Please note the bottom and right prop blade in the enlarged shot . What is more the plane had the cuffed prop blades in the late 50' as well.














the pic source: North American P-51D Mustang, Hasegawa 1:32 von Helmut Dominik

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## Peter Gunn (May 23, 2019)

Wurger said:


> The small air intake in front of the cockpit is a Swiss modification for providing additional fresh air to the cockpit. And yes there is a such panel.


Ahh, thank you, that makes sense, I can see it in the second photo in your post #198 as well.


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## Wurger (May 23, 2019)

My pleasure. Here are two shots more showing the detail better...





the pic source; Swiss Mustangs





the pic source: Matterhorn Circle - P-51D

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## Peter Gunn (May 23, 2019)

Excellent! Thanks again, so what's up with the canopy in the first shot? Looks like it had a bit of "re-engineering" done to it.


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## Wurger (May 23, 2019)

Oh yes.. as memo serves that's the another Swiss modification. It was done for the two-seater planes in order to have a better access the second seat .












the pic source: P-51D-5-NA s/n 44-13710 "Ann I" ...
and ... Swiss Mustangs

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## Airframes (May 24, 2019)

Now that would be an interesting conversion for a model subject.

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## Wurger (May 24, 2019)

Agree but it would be making the kite of being a little bit too ugly.


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 10, 2019)

USAAF P-51A Mustang 1st Air Commando Group India 1944 1 COLOR SLIDE No Photo | eBay

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## Wurger (Jun 11, 2019)




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## Peter Gunn (Jun 11, 2019)

Looks like a whole squadron, I think I count 15 white/silver/bare metal noses.


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 23, 2019)

Dec 1944 USAAF ID'd pilot's airplane Photo #9 aircraft Tail #414914 | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 23, 2019)

Dec 1944 USAAF ID'd pilot's Aircraft Photo #7 airplane & pilot | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 23, 2019)

Nov 1944 USAAF ID'd pilot's Aircraft Photo #3 pilot & airplanes | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 23, 2019)

Nov 1944 USAAF ID'd pilot's Aircraft Photo #2 pilot & airplane | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 23, 2019)

Nov 1944 USAAF ID'd pilot's Aircraft Photo #1 pilot & airplane | eBay


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## Peter Gunn (Jul 23, 2019)

Interesting shots, no squadron codes on the top pic and what's with "L74" and "L86" on the two B/C models in the lower pic? As well as the others with "L78" and "L81"?


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 23, 2019)

OLD WW2 MILITARY PHOTO SNAPSHOT AIRCRAFT NOSE ART A-35 | eBay


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## Dana Bell (Jul 23, 2019)

The L-coded Mustangs were from the 54th Fighter Group while it was a stateside P-51 replacement training group based in Florida. LE0 was originally the personal mount of C/O Lt Col Ward W. Harker; I suspect the third character of the nose marking was a zero rather than an "oh" reflecting Harker's position as daddy rabbit.

What surprised me the most can be seen in the front views - it looks like some of the aircraft had camouflaged wings with unpainted tips and control surfaces. I've never seen such a combination before, and the images are poor enough that I could be misreading them completely - but nice to see none-the-less!

Cheers,



Dana


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## Wurger (Jul 23, 2019)




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## Navalwarrior (Jul 23, 2019)

Peter Gunn said:


> Interesting shots, no squadron codes on the top pic and what's with "L74" and "L86" on the two B/C models in the lower pic? As well as the others with "L78" and "L81"?


Resp:
The aircraft with large numbers on the nose usually means 'training aircraft.' So,likely in US.

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## Navalwarrior (Jul 23, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Dec 1944 USAAF ID'd pilot's airplane Photo #9 aircraft Tail #414914 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 545564


Resp:
Likely the training base CO's Mustang.


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## fubar57 (Jul 23, 2019)

Yep, as Dana said


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 23, 2019)

USAAF P-51 Mustangs original photo nose art Feb 1945 Army Air Force | eBay


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## Wurger (Jul 23, 2019)




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## Navalwarrior (Jul 23, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> USAAF P-51 Mustangs original photo nose art Feb 1945 Army Air Force | eBay
> 
> View attachment 545620


Resp:
The second (fr to rear) looks to be a B/C, so definitely not in the Pacific Theater. The 110 gal drop tanks suggest ETO or MTO.


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 25, 2019)

*WWII photo- P-51 Mustang Chinese-American Fighter plane -HANKOU Airfield China* | eBay


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## Wurger (Jul 25, 2019)




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## Navalwarrior (Jul 25, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> *WWII photo- P-51 Mustang Chinese-American Fighter plane -HANKOU Airfield China* | eBay
> 
> View attachment 545912


Resp:
Not sure if those markings are Post-war or the last of 1945. I believe they are during the war. I attribute my assessment to the 'bars' on either side of the star. I have seen photos of lines of Chinese marked Mustangs, but w/o the bars.

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 2, 2019)

1940s CHINA USA FLYING TIGERS AIR FORCE AVG P-51 PLANES 二战中国飞虎空军战机 | eBay

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## Navalwarrior (Aug 2, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> 1940s CHINA USA FLYING TIGERS AIR FORCE AVG P-51 PLANES 二战中国飞虎空军战机 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 547365
> 
> ...


Resp:
The AVG never used Mustangs, and when the Flying Tigers received P-51 Mustangs it was well after the the AVG was incorporated (probably not the best term) into USAAF service. The year of Mustang arrivals in the CBI was late 1944, and these may have been Allison engined P-51As. Merlin arrivals . . ?


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 3, 2019)

Original B&W 8x10 Aircraft Photo - P-51C Mustang 43-24903 "B C8" on Nose DateUnk | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 3, 2019)

Original B&W 8x10 Aircraft Photo - P-51D Mustang Mk.4 RCAF 9273 #44-74908 - 1953 | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 3, 2019)

Original B&W 8x10 Aircraft Photo P-51D Mustang 44-12902 Chinese AF @ Nanking '46 | eBay


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## Navalwarrior (Aug 3, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Original B&W 8x10 Aircraft Photo - P-51C Mustang 43-24903 "B C8" on Nose DateUnk | eBay
> 
> View attachment 547551


Training Unit aircraft state side. Note the dorsal fin.


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## Navalwarrior (Aug 3, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Original B&W 8x10 Aircraft Photo P-51D Mustang 44-12902 Chinese AF @ Nanking '46 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 547565


Resp:
Very late 'D' model due to rocket stubs on wings, with Chinese markings. Likely posts WWII.


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 3, 2019)

Desciption picture says Nanking 1946 so yes post ww2


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 6, 2019)

P-51 Plane 356th Fighter Group Nose Art Escorting B-17 Original WWII Photo | eBay

Little friend saying Hi!

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## Wurger (Aug 6, 2019)




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## Navalwarrior (Aug 6, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> P-51 Plane 356th Fighter Group Nose Art Escorting B-17 Original WWII Photo | eBay
> 
> Little friend saying Hi!
> 
> View attachment 548162


Resp:
The aircraft looks to be at fairly low altitude. Makes me think . . . that the P-51 is down low with the bomber. A damaged bomber? Photo taken from a 'waist gun' window? Interesting!


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## Peter Gunn (Aug 7, 2019)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> The aircraft looks to be at fairly low altitude. Makes me think . . . that the P-51 is down low with the bomber. A damaged bomber? Photo taken from a 'waist gun' window? Interesting!



Actually I think it's a photo op taken over England, I have one somewhere similar with a Mustang from each of the 4th FG's squadrons (334, 335 & 336) that looks very much the same.


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 8, 2019)

Snap-Shot Photograph National China North American P-51 | eBay


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## Wurger (Aug 8, 2019)




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## Navalwarrior (Aug 11, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Snap-Shot Photograph National China North American P-51 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 548422


Resp:
Could it be a P-51K in Chinese markings? Note drop tanks.


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## Airframes (Aug 11, 2019)

Aero Products prop, so probably a 'K'.


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## MIflyer (Aug 11, 2019)

Love these cross sectional views!

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## Navalwarrior (Aug 11, 2019)

MIflyer said:


> Love these cross sectional views!
> View attachment 548630


Resp:
Allison engine Mustang. Guns in nose and looks like two in each wing. If so, an A-36A.


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## Airframes (Aug 11, 2019)

Can't see any dive brakes on the upper wing surface.


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## MIflyer (Aug 11, 2019)

No dive brakes and apparently no bomb racks, either It says there are three ammo containers in each wing for the machine guns, which would mean a Mustang Mk 1.
This looks like a later version of the same drawing and it seems to be a Mustang Mk 1


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## Navalwarrior (Aug 11, 2019)

MIflyer said:


> No dive brakes and apparently no bomb racks, either It says there are three ammo containers in each wing for the machine guns, which would mean a Mustang Mk 1.
> This looks like a later version of the same drawing and it seems to be a Mustang Mk 1
> View attachment 548665


Resp:
Mk I had three guns per wing, w two in the nose. So I went w the A-36A. However, I yield to your assessment, as no dive breaks can be seen in the drawing.


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## stug3 (Aug 30, 2019)

_By testing a North American XP-51B Mustang with cropped wings in the 16-foot High-Speed Tunnel, Ames researchers traced the source of a serious rumble to the location of the plane’s radiator cooling scoop below the fuselage. The problem scoop is barely visible below the wing. Lowering it slightly moved it outside the turbulent boundary layer and eliminated the rumble. Note the turntables in the walls for pitch adjustment._
Caption & photo: NASA via Aerospace Legacy Foundation_ 



_

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 2, 2019)

FOTO FLUGZEUG NORTH AMRICAN P-51 D MUSTANG CANADIAN AIR FORCE | eBay

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## Wurger (Sep 2, 2019)




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## fubar57 (Sep 2, 2019)




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## Navalwarrior (Sep 2, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> FOTO FLUGZEUG NORTH AMRICAN P-51 D MUSTANG CANADIAN AIR FORCE | eBay
> 
> View attachment 550835


Resp:
At what point in time did Canada begin to use the red 'Maple Leaf' in their military roundels? I have a WWII print of a Spitfire IX flown by a Canadian Unit that has the standard RAF roundels. Thanks.


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## fubar57 (Sep 2, 2019)

June 1946


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 9, 2019)

Original WWII Snapshot Photo 52nd FIGHTER GROUP P-51 MUSTANG 1944 ITALY 12 | eBay


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## Wurger (Sep 9, 2019)




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## Navalwarrior (Sep 9, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Original WWII Snapshot Photo 52nd FIGHTER GROUP P-51 MUSTANG 1944 ITALY 12 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 551632


Resp:
Likely a Squardon's new acquisition, since no fuselage codes have been applied. Also it appears that aside from the matt top painted fuselage from the canopy to the spinner, stars and tail code, the P-51B/C is still in its natural aluminum state.


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 13, 2019)

War Photo American fighter pilot Edward Gulit P-51D Mustang WW2 8x10 C | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 13, 2019)

War Photo Black fighter pilots of the 332 nd fighter group to discuss WW2 8x10 C | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 13, 2019)

War Photo Black us air force Colonel Benjamin Davis R-51V Mustang WW2 8x10 C | eBay

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## Wurger (Sep 13, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Sep 16, 2019)

35mm Korean War Airplane Aircraft Kodachrome Slide Original Red Border #4 | eBay


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## Wurger (Sep 16, 2019)




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## Navalwarrior (Sep 16, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> 35mm Korean War Airplane Aircraft Kodachrome Slide Original Red Border #4 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 552655


Resp:
In the '80s I worked for a guy who had just finished flight training in jets (T-33) when the Korean War kicked off. The USAAF asked for volunteers to 'retro' train to fly F-51 Mustangs, so he volunteered. However, once he finished piston engine training the Air Force sent him to train in F-86s. By this time nearly a year had passed before he was assigned to the 336 Squ of the 4th FG in Korea.


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 19, 2019)

USS Altamahha transporting P51A Mustangs Out Of San Francisco Bay. WW2 | eBay

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 19, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> USS Altamahha transporting P51A Mustangs Out Of San Francisco Bay. WW2 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 553160


Resp:
Enroute to CBI Theater? Or are they F-6B Mustangs headed to ETO? Think any are Mustangs MKIIs for RAF?


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## fubar57 (Sep 19, 2019)

Served only in the Pacific

EDIT: can't edit using iPhone. Is this common or just me?


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 19, 2019)

fubar57 said:


> Served only in the Pacific
> 
> EDIT: can't edit using iPhone. Is this common or just me?


Next to the report function 3 dots press that .


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## Navalwarrior (Sep 19, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> USS Altamahha transporting P51A Mustangs Out Of San Francisco Bay. WW2 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 553160





Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Enroute to CBI Theater? Or are they F-6B Mustangs headed to ETO? Think any are Mustangs MKIIs for RAF?


Wish we had the month and year of the photo. No P-51As went to the PTO, so either went to the 1st Air Commando Unit or the Flying Tigers. Either was CBI. 
If these Allison engined Mustangs were enroute to the 1st Air Commando Unit, then most of them were well used by training units in and around Florida. In other words, they were not new fighters. Since all USAAF units stationed around the world were 'screaming' for new replacement aircraft, an Air Commando Officer visited various air training units to scrounge up fighters. Keep in mind that these Mustangs (poss one A-36), although used/dated, were in excellent condition, as they were well maintained in the US. The P-51A, F-6B and A-36A were the first Mustangs to have wing pylons for drop tanks/bombs . . . which enabled them to provide ground support to The Chindits.

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## fubar57 (Sep 19, 2019)

Caption for the photo.....

"Escort carrier USS Altamaha transporting a deck load of P-51A Mustang fighters has just left Alameda, passed under the San Francisco Bay Bridge (background) and steams toward the Golden Gate, 16 Jul 1943"


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## fubar57 (Sep 19, 2019)

Three more photos from the same date...Escort Carrier Photo Index: USS ALTAMAHA (ACV-18)


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## fubar57 (Sep 19, 2019)

Here it says "Throughout 1943, the ship was sent on many voyages to replenish men and aircraft to the carrier fleet throughout the Pacific. She also made one delivery voyage of American planes to India. After a brief overhaul in October, the carrier was back in action ferrying cargo and supplies." USS ALTAMAHA (CVE-18) Deployments & History

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 20, 2019)

fubar57 said:


> Caption for the photo.....
> 
> "Escort carrier USS Altamaha transporting a deck load of P-51A Mustang fighters has just left Alameda, passed under the San Francisco Bay Bridge (background) and steams toward the Golden Gate, 16 Jul 1943"


Resp:
Thanks! July 1943 maybe too early for the 1st Air Commandos. I will check. Maybe destined for the Flying Tigers.


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## fubar57 (Sep 20, 2019)

In the book, "Air Commando Fighters of World War II",


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 20, 2019)

WW2 Picture Photo P-51 pilot George Roberts (left) Italy 1908 | eBay

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 20, 2019)

fubar57 said:


> In the book, "Air Commando Fighters of World War II",
> 
> View attachment 553268​


Resp:
Well, this info makes sense. I suspect that these P-51As Were not 'packaged' for overseas shipment by NAA, since these Mustangs were already in USAAF service (acquired from southern training bases in and around Florida).


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## ColFord (Sep 20, 2019)

The P-51A/Mustang Mk.II aircraft destined for the RAF were prepared and shipped using the same basic process as had been used since the Mustang Mk.I purchase. Aircraft were broken down into major components, protective coverings and packing put in place, then placed as a complete aircraft 'package' into a custom built wooden container that was further weather/waterproofed for protection during shipping. This was done by NAA at the factory in California. They were then shipped by rail to their port of departure. In some cases this involved shipping from a west coast USA port to a east coast port via the Panama Canal, others shipped directly by rail to port of departure on east coast. The RAF Mustang Mk.II were distributed across a number of ships that were part of four convoys - two from Halifax and two from New York, that sailed over the period 7-27 June 1943, arriving in Liverpool over the period 21 June to 11 July 1943. First of them are recorded at Lockheed Speke for uncrating and reassembly 28 June 1943.

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 20, 2019)

ColFord said:


> The P-51A/Mustang Mk.II aircraft destined for the RAF were prepared and shipped using the same basic process as had been used since the Mustang Mk.I purchase. Aircraft were broken down into major components, protective coverings and packing put in place, then placed as a complete aircraft 'package' into a custom built wooden container that was further weather/waterproofed for protection during shipping. This was done by NAA at the factory in California. They were then shipped by rail to their port of departure. In some cases this involved shipping from a west coast USA port to a east coast port via the Panama Canal, others shipped directly by rail to port of departure on east coast. The RAF Mustang Mk.II were distributed across a number of ships that were part of four convoys - two from Halifax and two from New York, that sailed over the period 7-27 June 1943, arriving in Liverpool over the period 21 June to 11 July 1943. First of them are recorded at Lockheed Speke for uncrating and reassembly 28 June 1943.


Resp:
Thanks. However the shipment of P-51As aboard the Altamaha did not come from the NAA factory, as these Allison engine Mustangs were 'rounded up' at various USAAF training bases in and near Florida. A very high ranking General approved their acquisition. So it is doubtful that they were shipped to NAA (had their hands full) before being loaded aboard the Altamaha. Just not sure who weather proofed them before they were shipped.


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## ColFord (Sep 21, 2019)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp: .... Think any are Mustangs MKIIs for RAF?



Responding to this part of your earlier post. As the way they were shipped for the RAF was not via deck cargo on escort carriers.


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## Navalwarrior (Sep 21, 2019)

ColFord said:


> Responding to this part of your earlier post. As the way they were shipped for the RAF was not via deck cargo on escort carriers.


Resp:
Boxed and assembled once they reach England?


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## ColFord (Sep 22, 2019)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Boxed and assembled once they reach England?


Yes, they were boxed for shipping and then re-assembled upon arrival in the UK at Lockheeds at Speke. The E&M Manuals for the P-51 and P-51A both included the aircraft breakdown for preparation for shipping and the basic dimensions and requirements for the construction of crate and cradles. Basically wing removed from fuselage, tail group removed, propeller removed, ancilliaries and GFE packed in boxes, main airframe components wrapped in a protective coating and placed into frames screwed/bolted into base of shipping box, then sides, roof and ends of shipping crate added. There are some photos in the Boeing Archive of Mustang Mk.II FR912 being prepped for shipping and partially crated - what's more they are period colour photos - one of them comes up in the online archive search using "Mustang" . There are earlier b&w photos around of Mustang Mk.I and Mk.IA being prepped and crated at NAA and uncrated at Speke. In the case of the Mustang Mk.IIs for the RAF, after initial reassembly at Lockheeds Speke, they sat around for some time before being sent to a RAF Maintenance Unit where they were fully prepared and brought up to latest required modification level for RAF service, which included stripping back to bare metal and repainting in standard RAF day fighter scheme with current national marking scheme, plus fitting RAF required equipment eg camera mounts, RAF radios and IFF, RAF required modifications to engine controls and engines - 'de-rating' modifications to supercharger impellor to improve performance below 10,000ft. Depending on availability of Malcolm Hood conversion kits, some were modified with Malcolm Hoods at this stage, otherwise converted later when airframes went in for major servicing or if held at a Group Support Unit, before issue to an operational Squadron.

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 22, 2019)

ColFord said:


> Yes, they were boxed for shipping and then re-assembled upon arrival in the UK at Lockheeds at Speke. The E&M Manuals for the P-51 and P-51A both included the aircraft breakdown for preparation for shipping and the basic dimensions and requirements for the construction of crate and cradles. Basically wing removed from fuselage, tail group removed, propeller removed, ancilliaries and GFE packed in boxes, main airframe components wrapped in a protective coating and placed into frames screwed/bolted into base of shipping box, then sides, roof and ends of shipping crate added. There are some photos in the Boeing Archive of Mustang Mk.II FR912 being prepped for shipping and partially crated - what's more they are period colour photos - one of them comes up in the online archive search using "Mustang" . There are earlier b&w photos around of Mustang Mk.I and Mk.IA being prepped and crated at NAA and uncrated at Speke. In the case of the Mustang Mk.IIs for the RAF, after initial reassembly at Lockheeds Speke, they sat around for some time before being sent to a RAF Maintenance Unit where they were fully prepared and brought up to latest required modification level for RAF service, which included stripping back to bare metal and repainting in standard RAF day fighter scheme with current national marking scheme, plus fitting RAF required equipment eg camera mounts, RAF radios and IFF, RAF required modifications to engine controls and engines - 'de-rating' modifications to supercharger impellor to improve performance below 10,000ft. Depending on availability of Malcolm Hood conversion kits, some were modified with Malcolm Hoods at this stage, otherwise converted later when airframes went in for major servicing or if held at a Group Support Unit, before issue to an operational Squadron.



Resp:
Thanks much. One area that has contributed to Mustang Mark confusion (from b/w and color photos) is seeing camofaged Mustangs Mk I models with red dotted USA roundels. This was before the the USA was at war. I can only surmise that North American Aviation painted US insignias on RAF Allison engined Mustangs to keep both spies and American anti war involvement critics at bay. It was my understanding that RAF markings were painted over the US roundels once they were reassembled in England. But I have seen nothing in print to support this thinking.


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## ColFord (Sep 23, 2019)

The use of the red dot centred US roundels on Mustang Mk.I destined for delivery to the RAF, was the temporary application of US marking for conduct of test flights within the USA OR for the couple of aircraft retained by NAA for flight test and development work in the USA - these are the ones most often that have shown up in various publications. Also some instances where applied for NAA publicity photographs. Use of US insignia without the red dot centre seen after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and generally used for flight testing of RAF aircraft over the USA, particuarly US west coast plants, to avoid issues with the red centre section of RAF roundels being mistaken for Japanese national markings. From what we have been able to find for aircraft destined for the RAF, the temporary US markings were placed over the top of the RAF markings for the duration of flight testing and then removed once flight testing completed and aircraft accepted by BPC/RAF representative at the factory. So when they were crated they carried RAF markings. The problem that arose for the Mustang Mk.I and Mk.IA in the UK after arrival with incorrect placement of the fuselage roundel and incorrect sizing of wing top and bottom roundels, was largely overcome as a part of the repainting process required to change the c&m from temperate scheme with early national markings as delivered by NAA, to the then required RAF day fighter scheme with later national markings in use by the time the aircraft shipments arrived in the UK. NAA had not had issues with RAF style roundels on their earlier and subsequent production blocks of Harvards for the RAF and RCAF - bright trainer yellow not being as menacing a camouflage, but there was a period where Harvards did have US markings applied over RAF markings for test flights or delivery flights from NAA factory to Canadian border.

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 26, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> 78th Fighter Group P-51 Fighter Planes Lined Up; England 1943
> 
> View attachment 380267


Resp:
The 'D' model didn't arriving in England until just before D-Day 1944.


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## fubar57 (Sep 26, 2019)

The photo was actually taken at the end of the war for a review. Another angle here...US Army Air Force - 82nd FS,78th FG

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## Barrett (Sep 27, 2019)

The famous Gentile pic reminds me: Pete Regina's B (slash C) model was stabled at the Champlin Fighter Museum here in AZ for some years in the 80s. It was repainted as a postwar racer, sad to relate...but more recently has been 352nd FG's Princess Elizabeth. http://aircraft-in-focus.com/north-american-p-51-mustang/

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 28, 2019)

Royal Air Force North American Mustang Mk I over France 8"x 10" WWII Photo 275 | eBay

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 28, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Royal Air Force North American Mustang Mk I over France 8"x 10" WWII Photo 275 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 554343


Resp:
Actually, it is a Mk IA . . since it has the wing mounted 20MM. Beautiful shot though.


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## Navalwarrior (Sep 28, 2019)

Barrett said:


> The famous Gentile pic reminds me: Pete Regina's B (slash C) model was stabled at the Champlin Fighter Museum here in AZ for some years in the 80s. It was repainted as a postwar racer, sad to relate...but more recently has been 352nd FG's Princess Elizabeth. http://aircraft-in-focus.com/north-american-p-51-mustang/


Resp:
Pete Regina's P-51B was made using a D wing that he 'adjusted' to fit a partial B fuselage. If I remember correctly, he had to fabricate the lattice canopy from drawings/scratch. To my knowledge, his 'B' was the first airworthy razorback Merlin Mustang since the air races of the early '50s. When it was sold and rebuilt as Princess Elizabeth as a P-51C it was rebuilt to this model specifications, which was extensive. Thanks goes to Pete for the resurrection of this beautiful variant.


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## drgondog (Sep 28, 2019)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> If I remember correctly, there were 555 'H' models produced. None ever saw combat, although P-51H Mustangs were en route to the PTO via ship when the war ended. I often wondered why no 'H' models ever served in Korea. Various US Air National Guard units were still flying D, K and H models. When the allies occupied mainland Japan, about 100 P-51D/Ks were mothballed there when jet fighters began to replace piston engine ones. It was these local Mustangs that were quickly brought back to combat readiness, in the ground support role. Since Mustangs were eventually sent to Korea from the US, I would have thought some 'H' models would have been used. Wing loading not up to par?


Several reasons.
Most important was P-51H still critical long range Air Defense interceptor vs USSR bomber technology. Second - Zero compatibility between the P-51H and P-51D airframes - complicating spares and maintenance issues (P-47N would have been chosen otherwise). Third, the main gear was built to lower structural threshold - and unsuitable for rough Korean airfields. Fourth, the P-51D was there, and a lot more existed in ANG units stateside. 

As to 'wing loading', the P-51H was stronger for full combat loads (and much stronger below) as the Structural design target was 7.3/11G at 9600 GW (full internal combat load) while the D was stressed at 8/12G for 8000 GW. At full internal combat loads the D was at 10200 for comparable comparison of 6.3/9.5G for the D and 7.3/11G for the H


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## drgondog (Sep 28, 2019)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> This aircraft was taken from the Second order for the British. 57 Mustang MkI aircraft were held back just after the attack on Pearl Harbor. The USAAF initially designated them as P-51-1 (& -2), but most were fitted with cameras for the Photo-Recon mission and redesignated as F-6A. Although most if not all kept the black stenciling just forward of the canopy on the left fuselage of 'P-51-1 NA.' Armament retained the four wing mounted 20mm cannon.



Strictly speaking the NA-91 (P-51-NA/Mk.IA) was the 3rd order placed by the BPC on 7-41. The production schedule called for completion of Mustangs in August 1942. Spring 1942 brought parallel streams of orders, beginning with the A-36. When the A-36 order was placed, AAF-HQ decided that RAF Mk.IA WIP needed to be suborned to provide training base for production A-36 pilots and maintainers. At the same time the CAS acolytes that were the power behind the throne to stuff the Mustang down Material Command's throat, also pointed to the Mustang as a far better tactical recon platform than P-40 and P-39 - resulting in the camera mod - then discussion of P-51A in quantity. 

The first Photo Recon version of the P-51-NA was tested in August 1942 by Chilton and redesignated P-51-1-NA, then F-6A. All subsequent F-6A conversions were performed at the Memphis Air Depot and designated P-51-2-NA/F-6A. IIRC, some remained 'as is' as P-51-NA and assigned to Training Command. Two, obviously, were pulled for NA-101 in May, 1942 in advance of the NA-101 contract to begin work on the XP-78/XP-51B. Both of those airframes retained P-51-NA on the data block. 

What is truly astonishing is that the Merlin conversion was a hoped for success - but NEVER conceived by AAF-HQ leaders as a long-range escort fighter. The primary reason for existence was CAS and battlefield air superiority until July, 1943 when the reality of 8th AF invulnerability was blown wide open successively by Blitz Week losses (first) then followed by August 17 Schweinfurt-Regensburg strike.

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## drgondog (Sep 28, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Think it is a C model notice lamp in right wing.


The image shown is of P-51B and B-25 at Inglewood. There is zero difference between the P-51B and C for the corresponding blocks (i.e. NA-102 P-51B-1 and P-51C-1). Some changes like the internal 85 gal fuse tanks were somewhat out of synch in P-51B-5/C-5 and subsequent due to insertion difficulties and changes were made to B-5 before C-1 was complete.


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## drgondog (Sep 28, 2019)

Wurger said:


> Oh yes.. as memo serves that's the another Swiss modification. It was done for the two-seater planes in order to have a better access the second seat .
> 
> View attachment 539237
> 
> ...


Did not originate with Swiss - common to both 8th and 15th AF in 1945. Shown is my father getting ready to take my Ranger uncle for a ride just after VE-Day at Steeple Morden.


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## drgondog (Sep 28, 2019)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> The AVG never used Mustangs, and when the Flying Tigers received P-51 Mustangs it was well after the the AVG was incorporated (probably not the best term) into USAAF service. The year of Mustang arrivals in the CBI was late 1944, and these may have been Allison engined P-51As. Merlin arrivals . . ?



P-51A/A-36 went operational in CBI October 1943. P-51B went operational at 23rd FG in April 1944.

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## Airframes (Sep 28, 2019)

Great pic Bill.
Karl and I visited Steeple Morden last Monday - some pics in my thread "The Travel's of Tel's Tin Tent".


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## Navalwarrior (Sep 28, 2019)

drgondog said:


> Strictly speaking the NA-91 (P-51-NA/Mk.IA) was the 3rd order placed by the BPC on 7-41. The production schedule called for completion of Mustangs in August 1942. Spring 1942 brought parallel streams of orders, beginning with the A-36. When the A-36 order was placed, AAF-HQ decided that RAF Mk.IA WIP needed to be suborned to provide training base for production A-36 pilots and maintainers. At the same time the CAS acolytes that were the power behind the throne to stuff the Mustang down Material Command's throat, also pointed to the Mustang as a far better tactical recon platform than P-40 and P-39 - resulting in the camera mod - then discussion of P-51A in quantity.
> 
> The first Photo Recon version of the P-51-NA was tested in August 1942 by Chilton and redesignated P-51-1-NA, then F-6A. All subsequent F-6A conversions were performed at the Memphis Air Depot and designated P-51-2-NA/F-6A. IIRC, some remained 'as is' as P-51-NA and assigned to Training Command. Two, obviously, were pulled for NA-101 in May, 1942 in advance of the NA-101 contract to begin work on the XP-78/XP-51B. Both of those airframes retained P-51-NA on the data block.
> 
> What is truly astonishing is that the Merlin conversion was a hoped for success - but NEVER conceived by AAF-HQ leaders as a long-range escort fighter. The primary reason for existence was CAS and battlefield air superiority until July, 1943 when the reality of 8th AF invulnerability was blown wide open successively by Blitz Week losses (first) then followed by August 17 Schweinfurt-Regensburg strike.


Resp:
The USAAC's 1939 prohibition against manufacturers incorporating external fuel stores (drop tanks) set the stage for days like the Schweinfurt-Ragensburg disasters. Fortunately, Gen Hap Arnold in 1941/42 time frame looked the other way when subordinates started using the term 'ferry tanks' to get fighters to distant places when they were actually mixing the two different terms/usages. Engineers at Lockheed, at the insistence of their P-38 test pilot, incorporated the ability to carry 'drop tanks' in spite of the contract restriction; the P-38F coming off the production line just before Pearl Harbor. P-47Cs and Ds had to be retro fitted in England in late 1943 just to carry one 75 gallon tank. Greater capacity tanks eventually arrived, and in early 1944 wing pylon P-47s began to arrive, but the damage had been done.

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## drgondog (Sep 28, 2019)

MIflyer said:


> Love these cross sectional views!
> View attachment 548630


Looks like a hybrid - A-36 Cowl, P-51A/B wing including Pitot tube, indeterminate Radiator. The A-36 had the established Donut, radiator and the P-51A had a Horse shoe shape.


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## drgondog (Sep 28, 2019)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> The USAAC's 1939 prohibition against manufacturers incorporating external fuel stores (drop tanks) set the stage for days like the Schweinfurt-Ragensburg disasters. Fortunately, Gen Hap Arnold in 1941/42 time frame looked the other way when subordinates started using the term 'ferry tanks' to get fighters to distant places when they were actually mixing the two different terms/usages. Engineers at Lockheed, at the insistence of their P-38 test pilot, incorporated the ability to carry 'drop tanks' in spite of the contract restriction; the P-38F coming off the production line just before Pearl Harbor. P-47Cs and Ds had to be retro fitted in England in late 1943 just to carry one 75 gallon tank. Greater capacity tanks eventually arrived, and in early 1944 wing pylon P-47s began to arrive, but the damage had been done.


Kelsey at Wright and Branshaw on-site collaborated with Lockheed to incorporate the plumbing and rack designs as kits for the P-38E, with the production release in P-38F (early block but not #1) in April 1942 timeframe. The F-4s went to Australia in April 1942 had the kits installed and equipped to hold either the 165 or 310 gallon Ferry tanks made in Australia.

The first stage in the mods for the P-47C/D by VIII ATC was to a.) install the keel, then b.) rack to carry either 1000 pound bomb or projected 75 and 110 gallon centerline tanks, then c.) the MUCH more labor intensive major Depot mods for the wing rack and plumbing and slaving pressurization to instrument vacuum pump.

The Production incorporation of wing/CL tanks occurred on the P-47D-11 arriving approximately March, 1944 but enough mods were delivered to 56th FG to go past Dummer Lake on the Berlin missions.

The Genesis of the change in philosophy from Ferry only to Combat tanks started in Fighter Conference Arnold hosted in Feb 1942, but slow to get through Material Command. The first long (er) missions with ferry tanks started in SW Pacific courtesy of Pappy Gunn and innovative Aussie tank makers for P-47s. They weren't getting any P-38s with the ETO, then North Africa campaigns in the planning phase as the P-47Cs were rolling out. The push for greater internal fuel capacity went into high gear in June, 1943.


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## MIflyer (Sep 28, 2019)

The cutaway is a Mustang Mk 1, with .50 cal cowl guns and three guns in each wing, as well as the early front moveable lip for the belly airscoop

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 28, 2019)

drgondog said:


> Kelsey at Wright and Branshaw on-site collaborated with Lockheed to incorporate the plumbing and rack designs as kits for the P-38E, with the production release in P-38F (early block but not #1) in April 1942 timeframe. The F-4s went to Australia in April 1942 had the kits installed and equipped to hold either the 165 or 310 gallon Ferry tanks made in Australia.
> 
> The first stage in the mods for the P-47C/D by VIII ATC was to a.) install the keel, then b.) rack to carry either 1000 pound bomb or projected 75 and 110 gallon centerline tanks, then c.) the MUCH more labor intensive major Depot mods for the wing rack and plumbing and slaving pressurization to instrument vacuum pump.
> 
> ...


Resp:
Exactly. You covered it all in a nutshell. When Gen Kenney was told @ June 1943 that he would no longer receive long range P-38s, but non drop tank capable P-47s, he had his engineer draw up specifications for a flat 200 (or was it 250?) gal belly tank, getting Ford Motor Co of Australia to make them. 60 days later their P-47s flew a long range escort mission! What did ETO US 8th AF Commander Gen. Eaker do? He failed to confirm an order to make drop tanks with the British (after meeting w them), so cancels an earlier US order for drop tanks! Crazy!!


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## drgondog (Sep 29, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> USS Altamahha transporting P51A Mustangs Out Of San Francisco Bay. WW2 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 553160


Headed for CBI.

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 29, 2019)

MIflyer said:


> The cutaway is a Mustang Mk 1, with .50 cal cowl guns and three guns in each wing, as well as the early front moveable lip for the belly airscoop
> View attachment 554405
> View attachment 554406
> View attachment 554407
> View attachment 554408


Resp:
The ad is dated June 1943 and specifies the Mustang as a Mk I. I believe this was around the time the A-36A was being produced at NAA.


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## MIflyer (Sep 29, 2019)

The A-36A deliveries began in September 1942 and deliveries were complete by March 1943, at which point the P-51A began production. I think its is rather ironic that the A-36A deliveries began in the same month that flight tests began of the XP-51B, the results of which pretty much assured the Mustang was not going to be a dedicated dive bomber. Of course, before the XP-51B even began flight tests the USAAF had ordered 2000 Merlin powered Mustangs. Those people back then did not screw around!

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 29, 2019)

MIflyer said:


> The A-36A deliveries began in September 1942 and deliveries were complete by March 1943, at which point the P-51A began production. I think its is rather ironic that the A-36A deliveries began in the same month that flight tests began of the XP-51B, the results of which pretty much assured the Mustang was not going to be a dedicated dive bomber. Of course, before the XP-51B even began flight tests the USAAF had ordered 2000 Merlin powered Mustangs. Those people back then did not screw around!


Resp:
Roger on September 1942. However, I have seen photos of the NAA plant where P-51As were being assembled on the line next to A-36As. I know that the two did not begin at the same time, but the two shared bays somewhere near the last of A-36A production.


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 30, 2019)

Org. Photo: 352nd Fighter Group P-51Fighter (#42-106635; Shot Down 1944) (#2)!!! | eBay
Org. Photo: 352nd Fighter Group P-51Fighter (#42-106635; Shot Down 1944) (#1)!!! | eBay
Org. Photo: Group of 352nd Fighter Group Pilots Posed by P-51Fighter Plane!!! | eBay

"Assigned to 486FS, 352FG, 8AF USAAF. Failed to Return (FTR) from a bomber escort to Dessau. Bounced by three Bf109's near Leipzig and shot down, pilot Lt Woodrow W Anderson Killed in Action (KIA) 28-May-44. MACR 509 " 42-106635 | American Air Museum in Britain and Woodrow Wilson Anderson | American Air Museum in Britain


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## Wurger (Sep 30, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Sep 30, 2019)

Org. Photo: 4th Fighter Group P-51Fighter Plane (#43-6573; Shot Down 1944)!!! | eBay

"Assigned to 33FS, 4FG, 8AF USAAF. Lost 11-Sep-44 Strafing Langansalza aerodrome, hit by Flak, belly landed nearby. Pilot Lt Henry A Ingalls survived crash. POW. MACR 8680. " 43-6573 | American Air Museum in Britain

North American P-51B-5 Mustang


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## Wurger (Sep 30, 2019)




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## drgondog (Sep 30, 2019)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> The ad is dated June 1943 and specifies the Mustang as a Mk I. I believe this was around the time the A-36A was being produced at NAA.


I have to check but I believe all the A-36s were done and the last P-51A was rolling out at Inglewood in June 1943. Also many P-51B-1 airframes were parked outside awaiting Merlins.


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## drgondog (Sep 30, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo: 4th Fighter Group P-51Fighter Plane (#43-6573; Shot Down 1944)!!! | eBay
> 
> "Assigned to 33FS, 4FG, 8AF USAAF. Lost 11-Sep-44 Strafing Langansalza aerodrome, hit by Flak, belly landed nearby. Pilot Lt Henry A Ingalls survived crash. POW. MACR 8680. " 43-6573 | American Air Museum in Britain
> 
> ...


P-51B-5-NA. All the B-1 were 43-12093 through 43-12492. At the time this pick was taken it was not yet assigned to 4th FG as no squadron codes have been applied - also does not have apparent filler cap indicating Depot installed 85 gallon fuse tank but image is not clear enough.

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## Snautzer01 (Oct 1, 2019)

'42 P-51 MUSTANG AIRPLANE AVIATION PHOTO NEW PLANES PREPPED BY CREW WWII FIGHTER | eBay


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## drgondog (Oct 1, 2019)

MIflyer said:


> The A-36A deliveries began in September 1942 and deliveries were complete by March 1943, at which point the P-51A began production. I think its is rather ironic that the A-36A deliveries began in the same month that flight tests began of the XP-51B, the results of which pretty much assured the Mustang was not going to be a dedicated dive bomber. Of course, before the XP-51B even began flight tests the USAAF had ordered 2000 Merlin powered Mustangs. Those people back then did not screw around!


The first Production P-51A was flown in early February. While the first A-36 flight was September 21, the first XP-51B flight was performed November 30th. To your point however, the XP-51B #1 (airframe including engine mounts) was ready save delivery of the 1650-3, in early October


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## MIflyer (Oct 1, 2019)

Yes, you are right. The first flight of the first converted Mustang Mk1A was not until 13 Oct 1942. One book says that the first P-51A converted to Merlin power in the USA occurred on 30 Nov 1942, but since the P-51A was not even yet in production then, that cannot be exactly right. 

Hmmm, according to the same book, Production Line to Front Line, it says that an NAA employee, George Wing, invented a new harder rivet for use in the Mustang wing that replaced nearly 800 rivets and bolts, giving a 60% weight saving and a 200 % increase in shear strength.


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## Navalwarrior (Oct 1, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> '42 P-51 MUSTANG AIRPLANE AVIATION PHOTO NEW PLANES PREPPED BY CREW WWII FIGHTER | eBay
> 
> View attachment 554852


Resp:
Likely the last of the Mk IAs (camouflage ones for RAF) as shortly after Pearl Harbor the remainder of the Mk IAs (solid green over gray) became USAAF P-51-1s, that soon became F6As (photo recon).


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## fubar57 (Oct 1, 2019)

Description for that photo..."North American NA-91 _Mustang_ fighters being serviced at North American Aviation at Inglewood, California (USA), in October 1942. After passing of the lend-lease act in March 1941, the USAAF ordered 150 NA-93 _Mustang Mk IA_ fighters on 25 September 1941 for delivery to the United Kingdom. The RAF serial numbers assigned were FD418-FD567 (FD553 is visible on the left). For contractual purposes, these aircraft were assigned the U.S. designation of P-51 (USAAF serials 41-37320 to 41-37469). _The Mustang IA_ differed from earlier versions in having the machine guns replaced by four 20 mm wing-mounted Hispano cannon. After December 1941 serials FD418-FD437, FD450-FD464, FD466-FD469, and FD510-FD527 were reposessed by the USAAF (and briefly named A-36A _Apache_)"


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## fubar57 (Oct 1, 2019)

FD serial numbers...


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 1, 2019)

WW2 NOSE ART 3-1/2" X 5" PHOTO 23RD FIGHTER GROUP 75TH SQUADRON P-40 OR P-51 | eBay


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## Navalwarrior (Oct 1, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> WW2 NOSE ART 3-1/2" X 5" PHOTO 23RD FIGHTER GROUP 75TH SQUADRON P-40 OR P-51 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 554930
> 
> ...


Resp:
The most recent, meaning within the last 12 mos . . . rebuilt fastback Merlin P-51 (in this case a P-51C-5-NT) found in the Northeast US. It is painted in the markings of 'Hopes Lope' Mustang.


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 2, 2019)

WW2 Picture Photo France 1944 US Pilots of 380th Squadron P-51D Mustang 2708 | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Oct 2, 2019)

Original lot 2x photos 353rd Fighter Group P-51 DONNAMITE pilot 8th Air Force | eBay

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## Wurger (Oct 2, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 2, 2019)

Original P-51 Mustang airplane 9th USAAF Air Corps Photograph 31st Fighter Group | eBay

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## Wurger (Oct 2, 2019)




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## fubar57 (Oct 2, 2019)




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## Navalwarrior (Oct 2, 2019)

drgondog said:


> P-51B-5-NA. All the B-1 were 43-12093 through 43-12492. At the time this pick was taken it was not yet assigned to 4th FG as no squadron codes have been applied - also does not have apparent filler cap indicating Depot installed 85 gallon fuse tank but image is not clear enough.


Resp:
The old photo tends to suggest a WW machine, but as you noted this P-51 is a new arrival.


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## drgondog (Oct 2, 2019)

MIflyer said:


> Yes, you are right. The first flight of the first converted Mustang Mk1A was not until 13 Oct 1942. One book says that the first P-51A converted to Merlin power in the USA occurred on 30 Nov 1942, but since the P-51A was not even yet in production then, that cannot be exactly right.
> 
> Hmmm, according to the same book, Production Line to Front Line, it says that an NAA employee, George Wing, invented a new harder rivet for use in the Mustang wing that replaced nearly 800 rivets and bolts, giving a 60% weight saving and a 200 % increase in shear strength. *TRUE and he started his own company after WWII. Think his first proprietary product was the Hi Shear rivet. *



The prototype NA-83 AM118 test bed for the dive flaps and bomb/fuel tank racks first flew in 4-30 1942.
The NA-91 (P-51-NA and Mk IA) first flew on 5-30
The first Merlin powered Mustang was the NA-91 - never the NA-99 P-51A. The ship numbers for XP-51Bs were 41-37352 and 421. 352 first flew 11-30-42
The first P-51D was flown November 15, 1942 - was 42-106539. The fuselage that was modified was of P-51B-1-NA Spare (no assigned serial unto completed)

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## MIflyer (Oct 2, 2019)

The USAAF ordered 400 P-51B-1-NA on 26 Aug 1942, so neither the British nor the American prototype Merlin Mustangs had flown yet.

It seems that originally 1200 P-51A's were ordered but when the significance of the Merlin version became clear they cut the P-51A order back to 310. 
I do not think the first P-51D flew 15 days before the first XP-51B.

On 27 Feb 1943 two P-51B airframes, the 201st and 202nd P-51B-1-NA, built, were given back to NAA for the bubble canopy mod. It appears that actual P-51B production did not begin until April 1943. Since they were building about 10 airplanes a day and P-51A deliveries did not begin until March 1943, it seems likely that the whole P-51A production was done in a month.


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 3, 2019)

10th WW2 Era Military Airplane B&W Negative Army Air Force, 66 472505 | eBay
9th, WW2 Era Military Airplane B&W Negative Army Air Force, Flying Undertaker | eBay

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## Wurger (Oct 3, 2019)




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## Gnomey (Oct 3, 2019)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 7, 2019)

VINTAGE/ORIGINAL WWII 34TH PHOTO RECON SQUADRON PHOTO LOT #6 AIRCRAFT | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 7, 2019)

ORIGINAL WWII US ARMY AIR FORCE RUN WAY SIGNAL TRUCK WARTON 1944 | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Oct 7, 2019)

ORIGINAL WWII US P-51 MUSTANG FIGHTER NOSE ART SPARE PARTS IN FLIGHT PIC | eBay

Notice it is a 2 seater with a interesting story

Bauer:
6623 crashed on takeoff from Speke (airport for Liverpool) Feb 18, 1943 and SOC. Sent to USAF Base Air Depot 2 (Now RAF Warton) where it was combined with other P-51B's parts that had been dropped while being unloaded at Liverpool docks and rebuilt as an unarmed two seater named *Spare Parts*.It was used for delivering urgent small spares, as a VIP transport and (amongst other things but probably most importantly) fetching bulk supplies of Scotch whiskey from a distillery in Glasgow! In late 1944 it suffered engine failure whilst flying over the Irish Sea off Blackpool and the two occupants had to bail out; they were safely rescued, but 'Spare Parts' crashed into the sea.

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## Snautzer01 (Oct 7, 2019)

ORIGINAL WWII US ARMY AIR FORCE P-51 FIGHTER SPARE PARTS NOSE ART PIN UP PHOTO | eBay

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## Wurger (Oct 7, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 9, 2019)

US-Foto: Flugplatz Kaufbeuren mit vielen P-51 Mustang´s der 55th FG, 2.WK Orig.! | eBay

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## Wurger (Oct 9, 2019)




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## T Bolt (Oct 15, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 17, 2019)

Ww2 P-51 Mustang Figter Plane Photo Original | eBay


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## Wurger (Oct 17, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 19, 2019)

Orig. US Foto P-51 Mustang Flugzeug Flugplatz SAINT-DIZIER Marne Frankreich 1944 | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 19, 2019)

Orig. US Foto P-51 Mustang Flugzeug Flugplatz SAINT-DIZIER Marne Frankreich 1944 | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 19, 2019)

Orig. US Foto P-51 Mustang Flugzeug Flugplatz SAINT-DIZIER Marne Frankreich 1944 | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Oct 19, 2019)

Orig. US Foto P-51 Mustang Flugzeug Flugplatz SAINT-DIZIER Marne Frankreich 1944 | eBay


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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 20, 2019)

Orig. US Foto P-51 Mustang Flugzeug Flugplatz SAINT-DIZIER Marne Frankreich 1944 | eBay


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## Wurger (Oct 20, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 21, 2019)

WWII 8TH AIR FORCE 357TH FIGHTER GROUP WWII ORIGINAL VINTAGE B&W PHOTOGRAPH | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 21, 2019)

WWII 8TH AIR FORCE 357TH FIGHTER GROUP WWII ORIGINAL VINTAGE B&W PHOTOGRAPH | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 21, 2019)

WWII 8TH AIR FORCE 357TH FIGHTER GROUP WWII ORIGINAL VINTAGE B&W PHOTOGRAPH | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 21, 2019)

WWII 8TH AIR FORCE 357TH FIGHTER GROUP WWII ORIGINAL VINTAGE B&W PHOTOGRAPH | eBay

Baugher: 43-6987 (357th FG, 362nd FS, "Satan") crashed near Horsham (Horham) , England Jan 13, 1945. Pilot killed.

Coded G4-Z, G4-A Personal aircraft of Lt Thomas E Norris (KIFA, Killed in flying accident

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## Wurger (Oct 21, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 21, 2019)

WWII 8TH AIR FORCE 357TH FIGHTER GROUP WWII ORIGINAL VINTAGE B&W PHOTOGRAPH | eBay

William H Mooney Jr Killed in Action (KIA) at Freienseen in P-51 'Libby B' 44-11198. Probably shot down by Fw190s of JG300. Pilot MIA. MACR 11329


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 21, 2019)

WWII 8TH AIR FORCE 357TH FIGHTER GROUP WWII ORIGINAL VINTAGE B&W PHOTOGRAPH | eBay

North American P-51B-10-NA 42-106462 (362nd FS, 357th FG, 8th AF) crashed at RAF Bodney, Norfolk, England Oct 4, 1944. Pilot bailed out and survived, aircraft was destroyed.


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## Wurger (Oct 21, 2019)




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## Crimea_River (Oct 21, 2019)

Great shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 22, 2019)

8x6 Gloss Photo ww40E8 World War 2 Photos p331 | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 23, 2019)

WWII P-51 531 Fighter Squadron Kagman Field Saipan 1945 pre Iwo Jima MAITA photo | eBay


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## Wurger (Oct 23, 2019)




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## Crimea_River (Oct 23, 2019)

A fine picture.


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## MIflyer (Oct 23, 2019)

Mustang Family shot from the 2019 Oshkosh.
XP-51, P-51B, P-51D's, P-51H, and XP-82

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## fubar57 (Oct 24, 2019)

Some nice shots


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## Wurger (Oct 24, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 28, 2019)

see another view op "Satan"North American P-51 Mustang

WWII 8TH AIR FORCE 357TH FIGHTER GROUP WWII ORIGINAL VINTAGE B&W PHOTOGRAPH | eBay

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## Gnomey (Oct 30, 2019)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Nov 9, 2019)

*WWII photo- A-36 Apache Dive Bomber / Fighter plane- Tail No. 43-12392* | eBay

North American P-51B-1-NA Mustang

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## Snautzer01 (Nov 9, 2019)

*WWII photo- 78th Fighter Group- P 51 Mustang Fighter plane IN FLIGHT* -2 | eBay

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## Airframes (Nov 9, 2019)

Nice shot - with Duxford airfield at the right of the photo.


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## Wurger (Nov 9, 2019)




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## fubar57 (Nov 9, 2019)




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## johnbr (Nov 11, 2019)

P-51 "Mustang" Archives Collection - NasaCRgis

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## johnbr (Nov 11, 2019)

LiTOT: P-51 index


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## Snautzer01 (Nov 28, 2019)

Photo WW2 avion P-51 Mustang bombardier format 10x15 cm n542 | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Dec 3, 2019)

1948 Press Photo Col CT Edwinson leads Clarence the Camel before taking off | eBay


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## Peter Gunn (Dec 3, 2019)

Great shot with the camel, although it looks like the good Colonel is sitting in a Thunderbolt, but still and excellent photo and the story attached is great as well.


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 8, 2019)

Original WWII Photo P-51 Mustang Nose Art U've Had It 357th Fighter Group ACE | eBay

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## Wurger (Dec 8, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Dec 13, 2019)

NEW 6 X 4 PHOTO WW2 RAF SPITFIRE BATTLE OF BRITAIN 79 | eBay


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2019)




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## fubar57 (Dec 13, 2019)

Nice.....um....er....Spitfire or is it Mustfire


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## fubar57 (Dec 13, 2019)

Again they've cropped out the watermark of the "new" photo.




​Price is right though


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2019)

fubar57 said:


> Nice.....um....er....Spitfire or is it Mustfire




The common thing as usually. What is more that's quite well-known shot.

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## jimh (Dec 14, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Poor thing gets gas then...
> 
> View attachment 282895



had to add this

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## Snautzer01 (Dec 14, 2019)

Org. Nose Art Photo: P-51 Fighter Plane (#44-13412; Shot Down 1945) ~ (#1)!!! | eBay

P-51D-5-NA

Baugher: _13412 (4th FG, 336th FS) hit by wingman's gunfire and bellied in 8 mi NE of Nordhausen, Germany Aug 24, 1944. Pilot John Godfrey POW. MACR 7941. Plane was not named "Reggie's Reply" and it was not his personal aircraft. _

_



_

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## Snautzer01 (Dec 14, 2019)

Org. Nose Art Photo: P-51 Fighter Plane "MUDDY" (With Ten Vicvtory Kills)!!! | eBay

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## Wurger (Dec 14, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Dec 17, 2019)

FOTO FLUGZEUG P-51D MUSTANG | eBay

P-51C-10-NT 44-10889 Lend Lease to France

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## fubar57 (Dec 17, 2019)

Never knew the French flew P-51s


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## Crimea_River (Dec 17, 2019)

Seems to me the French had at least one of EVERYTHING.


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## Peter Gunn (Dec 19, 2019)

Crimea_River said:


> Seems to me the French had at least one of EVERYTHING.



Oui Oui Baguette

Sorry, family joke with my daughters.


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## Navalwarrior (Dec 23, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> It was actually conceived as a means of "flash acceleration" in response to the Me262 threat.
> 
> There were two test aircraft, both were P-51D-25 airframes (44-73099 44-74050) and the rocket was an acid-aniline rocket motor that was fed by Red fuming nitric acid, carried in a special tank under the port wing and an aniline-alcohol mixture, carried in a tank under the starboard wing.
> 
> The fuel mixture was extremely volitile and could prove to be dangerous in a ground error and/or combat, plus the tests did not produce satisfactory results, so it never developed any further.


Resp:
The ME 262 reasoning makes sense. I was thinking it may have been to enhance launching from a carrier.


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## GrauGeist (Dec 23, 2019)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> The ME 262 reasoning makes sense. I was thinking it may have been to enhance launching from a carrier.


While that idea has merit, the P-51's rocket exhaust would have destroyed the carrier's hardwood deck.


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## Navalwarrior (Dec 23, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> While that idea has merit, the P-51's rocket exhaust would have destroyed the carrier's hardwood deck.


Resp:
Roger. It was just my 1st thought. The extra boost for enemy jets makes far better sense.

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## Navalwarrior (Dec 26, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> FOTO FLUGZEUG P-51D MUSTANG | eBay
> 
> P-51C-10-NT 44-10889 Lend Lease to France
> 
> ...


Resp:
Post war? Or pre May 1945? Could be a wartime photo recon? Is that a camera just behind and low of the roundel?


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## Airframes (Dec 27, 2019)

Armee de L'Air, probably immediate post war, and yes, it's a recce bird.


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## Wurger (Dec 27, 2019)

yep... the P-51C-10-NT ( another source : F-6C-10-NT ) delivered to G.R II/33 in July 1944. The appearance of her at the beginning of the 1945, Luxeuil airbase.


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## Navalwarrior (Dec 27, 2019)

Wurger said:


> yep... the P-51C-10-NT ( another source : F-6C-10-NT ) delivered to G.R II/33 in July 1944. The appearance of her at the beginning of the 1945, Luxeuil airbase.


Resp:
What made me look closer, was that I knew that the French flew a few F-5 Lightnings. There was a story of a missing Lightning flown by a famous (to the French) Frenchman who never returned from a photo recon mission. I believe his plane was found 30 or so years later in the Med, not too far off shore.


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## fubar57 (Dec 27, 2019)

Antoine de Saint-Exupéry https://www.biography.com/news/the-little-prince-antoine-de-saint-exupery-facts


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## Gnomey (Dec 28, 2019)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 12, 2020)

Original Large WWII Photo P-51 Fighter Aircraft Plane Crashed KIA w/ Story | eBay

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## Navalwarrior (Jan 12, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Original Large WWII Photo P-51 Fighter Aircraft Plane Crashed KIA w/ Story | eBay
> Resp:
> Those are P-47s in background. So I suspect those are 165 gallon drop tanks on the P-51D in the photo, that Kenney used as wing tanks on his 5th AF P-47s. Note the larger, non-standard wing pylons on the P-51.


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 20, 2020)

#619 WWII Color Photo ~ P-51 Nose Art ~ BARBARA M. 4th ~ | eBay

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## Navalwarrior (Jan 20, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> #619 WWII Color Photo ~ P-51 Nose Art ~ BARBARA M. 4th ~ | eBay
> 
> View attachment 567250


Resp:
A Blue Nosed Bastard of Bodney?


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## Airframes (Jan 20, 2020)

Yes, and possibly scanned from "Eighth Air Force in Colour" by Roger Freeman.


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## Navalwarrior (Jan 20, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> NEW 6 X 4 PHOTO WW2 RAF SPITFIRE BATTLE OF BRITAIN 79 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 563812


Resp:
Polish Squadron?


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## Airframes (Jan 20, 2020)

No, it's a P-51 Mustang III of 19 Sqn, RAF, in Normandy.

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## Snautzer01 (Jan 22, 2020)

WW2 Picture Photo England 1944 P-51B Mustang 351st Fighter Squadron 2310 | eBay

UPL 7554 | American Air Museum in Britain
North American P-51B-1-NA Mustang, S/N 43-12433. This aircraft was originally sent to the RAF under the Lend-Lease program as a Mustang III s/n FX905, but was returned to the USAAF on December 30,1943 with no RAF service recorded.
Her first USAAF assignment was with the 362nd Fighter Squadron of the 357th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force. Then was transferred to the 368th Fighter Squadron, 359th Fighter Group.
Declared 'War Weary' and sent to the 351st FS, 353rd FG as the squadron's "hack" aircraft. She was written off after being belly-landed by Lt. James Lamb on March 20,1945 at Raydon.

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## Wurger (Jan 22, 2020)




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## Crimea_River (Jan 22, 2020)

I had not noticed a tail fillet on a B-model before but now that I did a search, it seems there were a some. Thanks for posting.


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## Navalwarrior (Jan 22, 2020)

Crimea_River said:


> I had not noticed a tail fillet on a B-model before but now that I did a search, it seems there were a some. Thanks for posting.


Resp:
Many B and C variants were retro fitted, as were -5 D models.


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## Crimea_River (Jan 22, 2020)

Thanks, that's now apparent. Just hadn't noticed it before.


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 22, 2020)

Whats that with the "WW" after the plane code on the tail. Cant say i have seen that before. Perhaps war weary?

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## fubar57 (Jan 22, 2020)

Yes, War Weary. I’ve got a few decal sheets for “WW” P-47s used as formation monitors. I’ve also seen it on a few bombers as well

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## Snautzer01 (Jan 22, 2020)

Why isnt this marking on the bomber formation essembly ships? Seems this marking was haphazardly done.


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## fubar57 (Jan 22, 2020)

I just went through "Assembly Ships of the Mighty Eighth" and as you say, the "WW" isn't on any of the bombers. Having said that, the majority of the bombers also don't have serial numbers showing, having been painted over with these fantastic colours. Perhaps the "WW" was there before the colour change over. The majority of the P-47 formation monitors in the book show the "WW" and serial numbers

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## Snautzer01 (Jan 25, 2020)

WWII ORIGINAL US AIR FORCE PHOTO ENGLAND LOADING BOMBS IN P-51 PLANE | eBay


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## Wurger (Jan 25, 2020)




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## fubar57 (Jan 25, 2020)

Bomb look pretty drop-tanky


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## Navalwarrior (Jan 25, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> WWII ORIGINAL US AIR FORCE PHOTO ENGLAND LOADING BOMBS IN P-51 PLANE | eBay
> 
> View attachment 567673


Reap:
Looks like 110 gal drop tank, likely post 6 June 1944 . . due to black/white invasion stripes on wing.


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## Gnomey (Jan 27, 2020)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 28, 2020)

P-51 Fighter Plane Many Kill Markings Original WWII Photo | eBay

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## Wurger (Jan 28, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (Jan 28, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> P-51 Fighter Plane Many Kill Markings Original WWII Photo | eBay
> 
> View attachment 567950



Resp:
USAAF 31st FG, 308 FS.


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## Crimea_River (Jan 28, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> USAAF 31st FG, 308 FS.



Yes, but whose aircraft?

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## Navalwarrior (Jan 28, 2020)

Crimea_River said:


> Yes, but whose aircraft?


 
P-51K of CAPT John Voll, HL B. Twenty-one kills. Not sure if all are air-to-air kills, but most likely are.

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## Peter Gunn (Jan 29, 2020)

I thought that was John Voll's "American Beauty", I do believe all 21 were air to air but will stand corrected if I"m wrong.

I remember as a kid I badgered dad into buying me William N. Hess' "Fighting Mustang:The Chronicle of the P-51", I must have read that a hundred times, at any rate, I always had a lot of admiration for Captain Voll. He seems to have slipped under the radar as far as American aces go, perhaps I'm wrong about that but you don't seem to read much about him.

One question I have is that, he was a pretty good fighter pilot, why no posting to Korea to mix it up with MiG's?

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## Navalwarrior (Jan 29, 2020)

Peter Gunn said:


> I thought that was John Voll's "American Beauty", I do believe all 21 were air to air but will stand corrected if I"m wrong.
> 
> I remember as a kid I badgered dad into buying me William N. Hess' "Fighting Mustang:The Chronicle of the P-51", I must have read that a hundred times, at any rate, I always had a lot of admiration for Captain Voll. He seems to have slipped under the radar as far as American aces go, perhaps I'm wrong about that but you don't seem to read much about him.
> 
> One question I have is that, he was a pretty good fighter pilot, why no posting to Korea to mix it up with MiG's?


Reap:
Correct; 'American Beauty'!


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## Navalwarrior (Jan 29, 2020)

Peter Gunn said:


> I thought that was John Voll's "American Beauty", I do believe all 21 were air to air but will stand corrected if I"m wrong.
> 
> I remember as a kid I badgered dad into buying me William N. Hess' "Fighting Mustang:The Chronicle of the P-51", I must have read that a hundred times, at any rate, I always had a lot of admiration for Captain Voll. He seems to have slipped under the radar as far as American aces go, perhaps I'm wrong about that but you don't seem to read much about him.
> 
> One question I have is that, he was a pretty good fighter pilot, why no posting to Korea to mix it up with MiG's?


Resp:
As to his fame or lack of it . . . Voll may have shunned the Limelight, developed a condition that kept him out of combat, etc.. He certainly did his 'tour' during WWII, so he likely was able to have some say in future assignments. Also, ground crews certainly enjoyed the success of their pilot's plane . . . so Voll may have yielded to their dressing up his P-51K. Remember, both Bong and Gentile were killed stateside testing new aircraft (F-80/T-33, etc) . . . and Voll certainly was aware of his fellow fighter pilot's demise. Thoughts of raising a family, etc . . . may have played a roll. He was certainly no coward.


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 31, 2020)

VINTAGE/ANTIQUE LOT WW2 PICTURES PHOTOS MILITARY AIRFORCE? AIRPLANES PLANES D | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 31, 2020)

WWII photo Fighter-bomber P-51 "Mustang" US Air Force drops bombs on targets 17p | eBay

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## fubar57 (Jan 31, 2020)

First photo is interesting. Never seen that photo of "Ferocious Frankie" before
North American P-51 Mustang "Ferocious Frankie"; WWII, Operations, Bombing, Germany. [photograph]


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## Navalwarrior (Jan 31, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> VINTAGE/ANTIQUE LOT WW2 PICTURES PHOTOS MILITARY AIRFORCE? AIRPLANES PLANES D | eBay
> 
> View attachment 568290


Resp:
The camouflage and lack of wing pylons, suggest a held back Mustang MkI. If you look closely at lower nose, there appears a 'light covered' sheet metal covering of a nose gun port.


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## fubar57 (Jan 31, 2020)

Either red surround on the star and bar dating mid 1943 or red surround over painted by blue


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## michael rauls (Jan 31, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> As to his fame or lack of it . . . Voll may have shunned the Limelight, developed a condition that kept him out of combat, etc.. He certainly did his 'tour' during WWII, so he likely was able to have some say in future assignments. Also, ground crews certainly enjoyed the success of their pilot's plane . . . so Voll may have yielded to their dressing up his P-51K. Remember, both Bong and Gentile were killed stateside testing new aircraft (F-80/T-33, etc) . . . and Voll certainly was aware of his fellow fighter pilot's demise. Thoughts of raising a family, etc . . . may have played a roll. He was certainly no coward.


I did not know Gentile was killed testing a new type. That's too bad, great pilot and great guy from what I've read.


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## Navalwarrior (Jan 31, 2020)

michael rauls said:


> I did not know Gentile was killed testing a new type. That's too bad, great pilot and great guy from what I've read.


Resp:
Google 'The Last Flight of Don Gentile' at warbirdsnews.com


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## michael rauls (Jan 31, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Google 'The Last Flight of Don Gentile' at warbirdsnews.com


Will do........thanks.


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 2, 2020)

Org WWII French Volunteer Lot: GI’s W/ P51 Mustang; D-Day Markings, Three Kills! | eBay

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## Wurger (Feb 2, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (Feb 2, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> First photo is interesting. Never seen that photo of "Ferocious Frankie" before
> North American P-51 Mustang "Ferocious Frankie"; WWII, Operations, Bombing, Germany. [photograph]


Resp:
This photo is of P-51D-5, which was one of at least two "Ferocious Frankie's". . the first being a P-51B. In fact, the first photo that I have ever seen of a 'razorback' Mustang was a color photo of 4 'yellow nosed' P-51s, with 'Ferocious Frankie' flying tail end'Charlie', circa 1968.

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## fubar57 (Feb 2, 2020)

Rej: No kidding


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 5, 2020)

Org. Photo: Aerial View P-51 Fighter Planes (Squadron Code: CE) on Escort (#1)! | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 5, 2020)

Org. Photo: US P-51 Fighter Plane Undergoing Engine Overhaul on Airfield 1944!!! | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 5, 2020)

Org. Photo: US P-51 Fighter Plane w/ D-Day Invasion Stripes; June 1944!!! | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 5, 2020)

Org. Photo (COLORIZED): US Airman w/ P-51 Fighter Plane (w/ 6 German Kills)!!! | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 5, 2020)

Org. Photo: P-51 Fighter Planes Lined Up on Airfield in Winter!!! | eBay


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## fubar57 (Feb 5, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo: Aerial View P-51 Fighter Planes (Squadron Code: CE) on Escort (#1)! | eBay
> View attachment 568780



I don't think the "CE" is the squadron code as it looks like all the letters after the "C" are different. Possibly a training squadron


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## Dana Bell (Feb 5, 2020)

That's the 111th Tactical Recon Squadron in the MTO and Southern France. The "C" represented C Flight, with the second letter representing the individual aircraft.

Cheers,



Dana

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## Wurger (Feb 5, 2020)

.. CE, CT, CP and possible CK.




the pic source: Org. Photo: Aerial View P-51 Fighter Planes (Squadron Code: CE) on Escort (#1)! | eBay


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## Navalwarrior (Feb 5, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo: Aerial View P-51 Fighter Planes (Squadron Code: CE) on Escort (#1)! | eBay
> View attachment 568780


Resp:
Photo taken from another plane (P-51?), as you can see the top star and bar on wing . . at bottom of photo. Not sure if the photo was actually overseas or stateside.


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## Navalwarrior (Feb 5, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo (COLORIZED): US Airman w/ P-51 Fighter Plane (w/ 6 German Kills)!!! | eBay
> 
> View attachment 568784


Reap:
Nice shot of the Malcolm hood.


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## Crimea_River (Feb 5, 2020)

The 6 o'clock pic: perfectly aligned, perfectly painted stripes. prop exactly symmetrical. Just seems odd.

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## Navalwarrior (Feb 5, 2020)

Dana Bell said:


> That's the 111th Tactical Recon Squadron in the MTO and Southern France. The "C" represented C Flight, with the second letter representing the individual aircraft.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...


Resp:
Interesting. Thanks.


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## Navalwarrior (Feb 5, 2020)

Crimea_River said:


> The 6 o'clock pic: perfectly aligned, perfectly painted stripes. prop exactly symmetrical. Just seems odd.


Resp:
Attention to Detail! I spent a good portion of my youth painting to earn money for college. I can paint with either hand. I painted a ceiling w no drop cloth, which scared the homeowner when he walked in on me. LOL! The aircraft may have been in for maintenance so was not flying prior to the decision to apply markings, making it available to be one of the first to receive 'Invasion Stripes.' Is is a post war photo of 'Princess Elizabeth' flying today? ? ? ?


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## Crimea_River (Feb 5, 2020)

Gotta admit, it was one of my first thoughts but I try not to look for conspiracies.


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## Peter Gunn (Feb 6, 2020)

Regarding the six o'clock photo, to me it still looks like 1944, the prop has paint missing it appears.

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 7, 2020)

Org WWII Photo: American P-51 Mustangs Lined Up Beside Aircraft Carrier | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 7, 2020)

Org WWII Photo: American P-51 Mustangs Lined Up Beside Aircraft Carrier | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 7, 2020)

Org WWII Photo: American P-51 Mustangs Lined Up Beside Aircraft Carrier | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 7, 2020)

Org WWII Photo: American P-51 Mustangs Lined Up Beside Aircraft Carrier | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 7, 2020)

Org WWII Photo: American P-51 Mustangs Lined Up Beside Aircraft Carrier | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 7, 2020)

Org WWII Photo: American P-51 Mustangs Lined Up Beside Aircraft Carrier | eBay

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## Peter Gunn (Feb 7, 2020)

This batch seems to have the 165 gallon wing tanks, headed to the Pacific (Iwo Jima) perhaps?

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## Navalwarrior (Feb 7, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org WWII Photo: American P-51 Mustangs Lined Up Beside Aircraft Carrier | eBay
> 
> View attachment 568955


Resp:
Late variant P-51D/Ks due to wing rocket pods located just outside drop tanks pylons.


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## junkman3353 (Feb 7, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo: Aerial View P-51 Fighter Planes (Squadron Code: CE) on Escort (#1)! | eBay
> View attachment 568780


I think you'll find those to be F-6C Mustangs from the 111th TRS, Southern France. "C" being a flight designator and the second letter being an individual aircraft designator.


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 8, 2020)

Original WWII photo A P51 with drop tanks and ETO stripes | eBay


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## Peter Gunn (Feb 8, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org WWII Photo: American P-51 Mustangs Lined Up Beside Aircraft Carrier | eBay
> 
> View attachment 568947



Although upon reflection, I looked up CVE 119 the USS Point Cruz, she was commissioned in October of '45, so could these Mustangs be headed for Korea ca. 1950-51?


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 13, 2020)

Archive Photo 1947 MkIV Mustang Fighters RCAF at Grand Prairie airfield Alberta | eBay

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## Wurger (Feb 13, 2020)




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## Spitlead (Feb 14, 2020)

Wanted to share this photo of a P-51A in what I would guess to be RAF colors. I took the photo in the mid-1980s. I found the original slide and digitized the image. I do not know the serial number of the airplane or if it still even exists.

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 14, 2020)

Original Soldiers Photo Of P51 Mustang | eBay

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## Wurger (Feb 14, 2020)




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## fubar57 (Feb 14, 2020)

South African P-51 in Korea?


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## MIflyer (Feb 14, 2020)

Nice Shot of a CA ANG F-51D in 1948

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## junkman3353 (Feb 14, 2020)

Bill Larkins photo taken above Crystal Springs Reservoir about mid-way between San Francisco and San Jose. The San Andreas Fault runs right down the middle of it. 194th FS out of Hayward.
Most likely the same photo session: 144th Fighter Wing - Wikipedia
and: Ron Yelton's Air National Guard Website


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## Navalwarrior (Feb 14, 2020)

Spitlead said:


> Wanted to share this photo of a P-51A in what I would guess to be RAF colors. I took the photo in the mid-1980s. I found the original slide and digitized the image. I do not know the serial number of the airplane or if it still even exists.
> 
> View attachment 569731


In RAF colors, it would be a Mustang II. However, while hard to tell, the L wing looks like it has three gun ports. If so, it would be a Mustang MkI. Where was it when photographed?


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## fubar57 (Feb 14, 2020)




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## MIflyer (Feb 14, 2020)

junkman3353 said:


> Bill Larkins photo taken above Crystal Springs Reservoir about mid-way between San Francisco and San Jose. The San Andreas Fault runs right down the middle of it. 194th FS out of Hayward.



I was wondering where it was. And it is the same airplane as in that color shot you provided the link to.


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## ColFord (Feb 14, 2020)

The P-51A in the scanner colour slide is 43-6251 N4235Y currently flying as "Miss Virginia" as part of Planes of Fame Air Museum, Chino, CA. This attempt at a RAF NAA Mustang Mk.I early delivery scheme was as the aircraft was painted in the 1980s. Then in the 1990s it went for a time into a RAF c&m scheme that was supposed to represent that of the RAF Mustang Mk.I flown by F/O Hollis Hills RCAF during the Dieppe operation in 1942. Was used in that scheme for filming a documentary about the P-51. Then 2006 after a period of inactivity and restoration, went into its current scheme of "Miss Virginia" a P-51A of the 1st Air Commando in CBI WW2. Was put last year, into a temporary scheme once again representing that of Mustang Mk.I flown by F/O Hills RCAF for filming of a documentary about the Mustang due out sometime this year. Has since been returned to "Miss Virginia" scheme. MustangMustangs website has a number of photos online of this aircraft in its various schemes during its history.

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## Navalwarrior (Feb 14, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> View attachment 569804​


Resp: Thanks. It definitely is a Mustang Mk II (P-51A). Wing pylons have been removed.


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## MIflyer (Feb 14, 2020)

Hollis Hills was from Hollywood, California and scored the first kill by a Mustang.


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## Spitlead (Feb 15, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> In RAF colors, it would be a Mustang II. However, while hard to tell, the L wing looks like it has three gun ports. If so, it would be a Mustang MkI. Where was it when photographed?


I took the photo at the Chino Airfield in southern California. If I'm not mistaken, it was a part of the Chino Air Museum. Colford's thread gives all the details and they match my timeline.\



ColFord said:


> The P-51A in the scanner colour slide is 43-6251 N4235Y currently flying as "Miss Virginia" as part of Planes of Fame Air Museum, Chino, CA. This attempt at a RAF NAA Mustang Mk.I early delivery scheme was as the aircraft was painted in the 1980s. Then in the 1990s it went for a time into a RAF c&m scheme that was supposed to represent that of the RAF Mustang Mk.I flown by F/O Hollis Hills RCAF during the Dieppe operation in 1942. Was used in that scheme for filming a documentary about the P-51. Then 2006 after a period of inactivity and restoration, went into its current scheme of "Miss Virginia" a P-51A of the 1st Air Commando in CBI WW2. Was put last year, into a temporary scheme once again representing that of Mustang Mk.I flown by F/O Hills RCAF for filming of a documentary about the Mustang due out sometime this year. Has since been returned to "Miss Virginia" scheme. MustangMustangs website has a number of photos online of this aircraft in its various schemes during its history.


Great info ColFord. I had no idea about the history of the airplane but your information matches my timeline. The Chino Planes of Fame had an awesome collection of WWII planes. I have not been back there in 30+ years. They put on a fantastic airshow back in the day. Would like to visit there again.

P-51D, American Beauty. I took the photo in 2017 at the Olympia Air Show in Washington State. The question I have is this camo paint scheme is in light blue yet all photos I have seen of this airplane depict the identical camo pattern but in olive drab. Which is correct?


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 15, 2020)

1944 Press Photo Lieutenant Colonel George Peck, Sergeant Joe Louis In England | eBay

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## Wurger (Feb 15, 2020)




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## MIflyer (Feb 15, 2020)

Nice shot, but I think that "legally" that is an F-6A, the photo recon version of the P-51A. There were some in the U.K., although it was more well known in the Med. Some of the F-6A's there were used to help check out new P-51B pilots when then transitioned from the P-47D.


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## Navalwarrior (Feb 15, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> 1944 Press Photo Lieutenant Colonel George Peck, Sergeant Joe Louis In England | eBay
> 
> View attachment 569890
> 
> ...


Resp:
An F-6B, the photo graphic version of a P-51A. Often incorrectly listed as an F-6A.


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## fubar57 (Feb 15, 2020)

North American F-6 Mustang

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## Airframes (Feb 15, 2020)

Re Post #479.
The correct colours are OD and RAF Dark Green. The blue came about in the early 1960s, when modellers and enthusiasts based the colours on a poor reproduction of an original colour transparency, which had a strong blue cast, as well as some erroneous information published in various books. This transferred to some actual preserved aircraft, and is sometimes still seen on models today !

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## MIflyer (Feb 15, 2020)

This is only a small picture, but you do not often see an A-36 in natural metal.

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## Navalwarrior (Feb 15, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> North American F-6 Mustang
> 
> View attachment 569931​


Resp:
Look at the L front windshield panel . . . notice the insert panel that can be opened in flight. Only the P-51A/F-6B had these insert panels.
Correction:
In reviewing many wartime b/w photos, I found that many A-36As that also have the insert panel in the L front windshield panel. I have also found one very clear L profile photo of an A-36A without the insert panel. The question posed is 'were these panels' standard, added late on the production line (at one point shared the production line with P-51As) or a panel taken from an earlier F-6A Mustang in theater as a 'parts donor?' F-6As shared fields in the Med with A-36As, so spare parts were routinely cannibalized to keep others operational.

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## fubar57 (Feb 15, 2020)

A rare bird, only 35 F-6Bs made


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## Navalwarrior (Feb 15, 2020)

Airframes said:


> Re Post #479.
> The correct colours are OD and RAF Dark Green. The blue came about in the early 1960s, when modellers and enthusiasts based the colours on a poor reproduction of an original colour transparency, which had a strong blue cast, as well as some erroneous information published in various books. This transferred to some actual preserved aircraft, and is sometimes still seen on models today !


Resp:
I read somewhere that the early USAAC P-40B/C had U.S. ARMY in 'blue' (wing underside) rather than in black. Could this also be incorrect?


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## Navalwarrior (Feb 15, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> 1944 Press Photo Lieutenant Colonel George Peck, Sergeant Joe Louis In England | eBay
> 
> View attachment 569890
> 
> ...


Resp:
BTW, that Joe Lewis is the famous American boxer during his tour of England.


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 15, 2020)

I think most of us know.

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## Crimea_River (Feb 15, 2020)

Re the blue vs green 361st FG Mustangs in the "Bottisham Four" phot, Dana Bell had a recent interesting take: "Today’s new argument must be that the only clear original image of the four aircraft clearly shows blue paint on three of the aircraft, green on the fourth, and additional patches of green on the first blue aircraft."

Archival Show and Tell #7 - Not Those Blue Mustangs Again by Dana Bell


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## Navalwarrior (Feb 15, 2020)

Crimea_River said:


> Re the blue vs green 361st FG Mustangs in the "Bottisham Four" phot, Dana Bell had a recent interesting take: "Today’s new argument must be that the only clear original image of the four aircraft clearly shows blue paint on three of the aircraft, green on the fourth, and additional patches of green on the first blue aircraft."
> 
> Archival Show and Tell #7 - Not Those Blue Mustangs Again by Dana Bell


Resp:
For some rare P-51 photos of almost all variants that went into service, google: swissmustangs.ch


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## Spitlead (Feb 16, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> North American F-6 Mustang
> 
> View attachment 569931​


Fubar, besides the cameras being added what were the other configuration differences with a stock P-51 fighter? Did they remove the guns or any other equipment to lighten the aircraft? Or, were there any changes to the engine?


Airframes said:


> Re Post #479.
> The correct colours are OD and RAF Dark Green. The blue came about in the early 1960s, when modellers and enthusiasts based the colours on a poor reproduction of an original colour transparency, which had a strong blue cast, as well as some erroneous information published in various books. This transferred to some actual preserved aircraft, and is sometimes still seen on models today !


Thanks again for the information. I never knew! I would've thought that WWII pilots and historians would've made the correction a long time ago. Strange to see American Beauty flying around with that color scheme. But, I have to admit it looks very good.


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## Spitlead (Feb 16, 2020)

O


MIflyer said:


> This is only a small picture, but you do not often see an A-36 in natural metal.





MIflyer said:


> This is only a small picture, but you do not often see an A-36 in natural metal.
> 
> View attachment 569932


I have to ask, what are the differences between the P-51A and the A-36 besides the special slotted flaps for dive bombing?


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## MIflyer (Feb 16, 2020)

Biggest difference between the A-36A and P-51A was the engine. The A-36A was powered by a V-1710-87 engine rated at 1323hp at 3000 ft. It had its best top speed at about 5000 ft. The P-51A was powered by the V-1710-81 engine rated at 1200 hp but at a higher altitude, giving the best speed at about 20,000 ft, and which was about 50 mph faster than the A-36A. The P-51A also had bomb/drop tank racks on the wings.

The A-36A had six .50 cal guns, two in the bottom of the engine cowling and four in the wings. The P-51A had just the four guns in the wings.

Both were built with the same radios,SCR-274-N installations, HF sets rather than VHF and apparently retained those through their careers. The HF sets were found to be much better for communicating with the ground troops, an advantage the P-51A and A-36A had over the RAF for fighting in Burma. The RAF and the majority of the USAAF at that time did not think there was any reason for airplanes to talk to ground troops, but that capability was essential for the operations the Air Commandos did in support of the Chindits. Eventually everyone else figured that out as well. 

The P-51A was short lived on the production line, only 310 built, all in the space of one month, March 1943. By that time the data on the Merlin engine installation had been collected and everyone knew that was the future of the airplane.

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## Dana Bell (Feb 16, 2020)

Airframes said:


> Re Post #479.
> The correct colours are OD and RAF Dark Green. The blue came about in the early 1960s, when modellers and enthusiasts based the colours on a poor reproduction of an original colour transparency, which had a strong blue cast, as well as some erroneous information published in various books. This transferred to some actual preserved aircraft, and is sometimes still seen on models today !




Actually, the _argument_ began in the 1960s when members of the 361st began to refute evidence that their aircraft had been overpainted in blue. Until that time, _all_ evidence was based on the observations of spotters (who had been invited on base to see the aircraft close-up) and published photos. Their diaries included sketches and notes about the blue paint over the uppersurface invasion stripes. Twenty years later, those who didn't remember the blue began to object to the evidence that was showing up in books and magazine articles. The surviving original image clearly shows blue _and _green.

Cheers,



Dana

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## Airframes (Feb 16, 2020)

Yes, I should have been more specific. The 'argument' began in the 1960s, when information started to appear in various books, some of which was based on observations by (then) young aircraft enthusiasts /spotters, who had seen the aircraft at the time, including, I believe, the late Roger Freeman.
From this info, it would seem that some aircraft did indeed display at least some blue areas, and certainly fin and wing tips were recorded as blue, as seen on "Tikka IV".
Back in the very early 1980s (1981 I think), I was partially involved in some photo interpretation of the "Bottisham Four" image, when an aviation magazine had asked us at Kodak Ltd in the UK, if we could determine the original colours from a 4 x 5 transparency which, from memory, was a high quality duplicate. Although I was only involved on the 'fringe' of this analysis, I recall that the results suggested that there were two shades of green, with any perceived blue cast being the results of annomalous reflection, where the film emulsion fails to record the colour(s) as seen by the human eye, but detects and records the actual base pigment(s), something quite common in, for example, wedding photography, were the groom's suit may appear blusih / purple, rather than black.
Not long after this, I remember reading, somewhere, that the USAAF at this time did, indeed, use RAF Dark green as a 'supplementary' camouflage paint, apparently due to a shortage of US OD.
Now regardless of all this, there _*is*_ evidence to suggest that, at some point, a shade of blue _*was*_ used, presumably due to lack of other suitable shades, to 'tone down' or cover areas, such as AEAF 'stripes, especially if these aircraft were to be on the ground on the European continent at some point.
However, the shade of blue used would appear to have been darker than that used by modellers, which is a much 'brighter', lighter shade and, at one time, was even called out specifically as a Humbrol colour - Railway Blue, which is not a close match to any of the shades that have appeared in colour images.

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## Dana Bell (Feb 16, 2020)

Hi Airframes,

Our stories seem to parallel each other in many ways. In 1981 I was working my last year at the USAF Still Photo Depository, just south of the Pentagon. We held the Air Force's historical photos, as well as the collections documenting then-current operations. Before year's end, I pulled all the remaining color shots of the 361st to see if I could visually detect blue or green paint on any of the aircraft. Many of the originals were long gone, with only dupes and internegs remaining - the Depository policy had been to loan the originals to the Pentagon for special projects, but those originals often weren't returned. The policy had changed, but there was still no way to get the originals back.

Using only a lupe and a daylight-balanced light table I could see two "colors" - the green that was on most aircraft, and a dark grayish tone seen on others. There was no sign of any blue in the images. I believed that the darker color could be some sort of blue, but there was still no visual proof. Still, neither the spotters nor the veterans ever mentioned seeing two different colors on their aircraft, which made me suspect both their points of view.

I moved on to the Smithsonian, and the collection moved to the Defense Audiovisual Agency (DAVA). DAVA planned to retire everything up to 1954 to the US National Archives, but the USAF History Office needed to keep the collection where they would have access for series of WWII books then in the works. The result was that the Air Force temporarily transferred the collection to the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum, where I had the opportunity to rebuild it. I noticed that a few more originals had left the collection, possibly lost when sent to contractors for reproduction, or perhaps misfiled when returned to the stacks. I took another look during my NASM years, but still couldn't see any sign of blue with a simple lupe and lightbox. With the Air Force History projects complete, the collection moved again to its final home at the National Archives. (The collection is identified as Record Group 342-FH, with the FH for "finally here!"

In 2018 I was scanning the remaining 361st images for a book I was writing on Olive Drab and Neutral Gray camouflage; I planned to write a caption noting that most of the aircraft wore green, but some aircraft wore an unidentified darker color. By that time, there was only one original left in the collection, with several dupes and internegs. Initially, the scans gave no indication of a blue camouflage, but when I lightened the scan of the last original slightly, the strong royal blue jumped out. (There was no sign of this blue in any of the duplicates.)

Today I feel the blue was only used to paint out the invasion stripes on the earlier aircraft - and that was what the spotters saw. After that encounter, newer aircraft were overpainted with green, and some of the surviving older aircraft had green added to outer wing panels and tails. This would explain the spotters making no mention of green - just the blue that they all saw. Eventually, all the older aircraft left the 361st, replaced by newer P-51s which, if camouflaged, used only green - and this would explain why the vets didn't remember any blue. Anyway, that's my speculative explanation of the widely differing observations.

Cheers,



Dana

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## Navalwarrior (Feb 16, 2020)

MIflyer said:


> Biggest difference between the A-36A and P-51A was the engine. The A-36A was powered by a V-1710-87 engine rated at 1323hp at 3000 ft. It had its best top speed at about 5000 ft. The P-51A was powered by the V-1710-81 engine rated at 1200 hp but at a higher altitude, giving the best speed at about 20,000 ft, and which was about 50 mph faster than the A-36A. The P-51A also had bomb/drop tank racks on the wings.
> 
> The A-36A had six .50 cal guns, two in the bottom of the engine cowling and four in the wings. The P-51A had just the four guns in the wings.
> 
> ...


Resp:
The P-51A also had a larger diameter propeller than previous variants.


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## Airframes (Feb 16, 2020)

Dana, that's interesting info.
From what I remember of the analysis done in the early 1980's, mentioned in my previous post, study of the dyes and colour couplers in the emulsion of the 4 x 5 transparency, after examination of any degradation, recipositry etc, strongly suggested that the original colour (as painted) was of a dark green hue, but was possibly a mix of pigments used to make this, with a blue shade very possibly being one of them.
The conclusions at the time only stated that the visible colour, however, was 'green' - no percentage colour spectrum was stated.
Although it's possible that a 'field mix' of paints was used, my personal feelings are that, the paint(s) used to cover the upper-surface AEAF stripes were very probably those that were available at the time, in dark shades, with one of them possibly / probably being Insignia Blue, as used for the roundel of the 'stars and bars'.
Closer examination of the painted areas on the fin etc, strongly suggested that these areas were a different shade again, and were a green hue ( I believe this was some of the RAF Dark Green ).
With a lack, or shortage of suitable camouflage colours in greens / browns, this would have been a logical choice, and, had it been _my_ decision at the time, this would have been 'dulled' at least a little, by darkening it with whatever was available to those ground crew carrying out the work, in order to provide a more neutral 'shadow' tone for use as temporary camouflage on the ground, with the addition of black or a dark grey probably being the available choices.
Of course, this, again, is at least somewhat speculative, but may account for the origins of the reports of 'blue' P-51s, and the eventual change to green(s), which seems to tie-in with info imparted during conversations with the historian at the Bottisham Airfield Museum a couple of years ago.

Cheers,

Terry.


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 21, 2020)

USAAF 9th Air Force 10th Photo Recon Squadron officers group photograph P-51 | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 22, 2020)

WW2 P-51 Mustang Airplane Photo 8" × 5" Black and White | eBay

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## Wurger (Feb 22, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (Feb 22, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> WW2 P-51 Mustang Airplane Photo 8" × 5" Black and White | eBay
> 
> View attachment 570835


Resp:
Taken from British order of Mustang MkIA and redesignated by USAAF initially as P-51-1 (and -2). But before assigned to an operational unit . . . were fitted with cameras and redesignated as F-6A Mustangs for photo recon.


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## Peter Gunn (Feb 24, 2020)

Strange perspective on that last Mustang shot, I almost get dizzy trying to figure it out.


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 26, 2020)

Org. Photo: Black African American Tuskegee Airman Posed w/ P-51 Fighter Plane! | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 26, 2020)

P-51 Planes 31st Fighter Group 15th Air Force Italy Original WWII Photo | eBay

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## Wurger (Feb 26, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 27, 2020)

Org WWII Photo: American P-51 Mustang On Airfield, “Babs” | eBay

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## Wurger (Feb 27, 2020)




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## Spitlead (Feb 28, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> WW2 P-51 Mustang Airplane Photo 8" × 5" Black and White | eBay
> 
> View attachment 570835


I've noticed that some P-51As have a different looking gun installation where the 4 guns (2 on each wing) protrude. Were these different guns installed for British aircraft?


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## MIflyer (Feb 28, 2020)

This is one of the most attractive P-51D drawings I have ever seen. It has been around for a long time, but I just did a high res 400 DPI scan of it from a book and thought y'all might enjoy it.

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## ColFord (Feb 28, 2020)

Spitlead said:


> I've noticed that some P-51As have a different looking gun installation where the 4 guns (2 on each wing) protrude. Were these different guns installed for British aircraft?



Spitlead, the Mustangs with the gun installation protruding forward of the wing leading edge are P-51 Mustangs - no suffix - NAA designation NA-91, 150 aircraft order for the RAF under Lend Lease, which were armed with 4 x 20mm Hispano cannon. The armament on those aircraft was as per the British specification for that particular batch. The protrusions forward of the wing leading edge is part of the gun mounting arrangements, the 20mm Hispano cannon being larger in overall size than the 0.50in Browning Heavy Machine Gun.

The NA-91 was the Mustang Mk.IA in RAF service, entered operational service with RAF in June 1943, last recorded operational sorties with RAF just before VE-Day.

NA-91 P-51 Mustang was followed in order of production by NAA, by the NA-93 A-36A Mustang, then the NA-99 P-51A Mustang. Armament on the A-36 and P-51A were respectively 6 x 0.50in Browning HMGs and 4 x 0.50in Browning HMGs, which was as per USAAF requirements/specification for those types.

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 2, 2020)

WWII GROUP PHOTOGRAPH FIGHTER PILOTS & DOG PHOTO-MAJOR GEORGE L. JONES-U.S.A.F. | eBay

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## fubar57 (Mar 2, 2020)

Major Jones, ace in WW2 and Korea. Only source I can find so far...George L. Jones - Wikipedia

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 2, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> Major Jones, ace in WW2 and Korea. Only source I can find so far...George L. Jones - Wikipedia

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 2, 2020)

Org WWII RCAF Photo Lot: American P-51 Mustang On Airfield; “77” | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 2, 2020)

Org WWII RCAF Photo Lot: American P-51 Mustang On Airfield | eBay


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## MIflyer (Mar 2, 2020)

One of my favorite Mustang shots. I've always liked those tapered anti-glare panels.

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## Wurger (Mar 2, 2020)




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## Gnomey (Mar 6, 2020)

Nice shots!


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## junkman3353 (Mar 8, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org WWII Photo: American P-51 Mustang On Airfield, “Babs” | eBay
> 
> View attachment 571475


I think there is a real good chance this is from the 7th Photo Group. They used P-51's to escort PR missions during early 1945. The dark stripe on the nose was likely red with an insignia blue spinner (group markings). No squadron codes on the sides.

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## Navalwarrior (Mar 9, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo: Black African American Tuskegee Airman Posed w/ P-51 Fighter Plane! | eBay
> 
> View attachment 571268


Reap:
I believe it is a late states side photo, likely at a training unit due to large Number on nose. Note the 'non-cuff' bladed prop; either a P-51K or a refitted P-51D. Also note wing mounted slightly protruding guns; a trait of D/K models.

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 10, 2020)

Original Kodachrome Color P-47 And Fighter Pilot Photo With Nose Art/kill Marks | eBay


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## Wurger (Mar 10, 2020)




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## Spitlead (Mar 10, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Original Kodachrome Color P-47 And Fighter Pilot Photo With Nose Art/kill Marks | eBay
> 
> View attachment 572796



I see the obvious bomb sortie markings, but what are the other markings? I've not seen those before. Is one a broom for a "fighter sweep"? Can't tell even what the top row of markings are.


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## fubar57 (Mar 11, 2020)

You're right, the broom is for fighter sweep. Full size photo of "Mumblin Joe" here...The 371st Fighter Group in Operation Overlord: Remembering Normandy at 75 > 142nd Fighter Wing > Article Display


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## fubar57 (Mar 11, 2020)

The top row symbols are top hats, standing for "Top Cover"

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## Spitlead (Mar 12, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> You're right, the broom is for fighter sweep. Full size photo of "Mumblin Joe" here...The 371st Fighter Group in Operation Overlord: Remembering Normandy at 75 > 142nd Fighter Wing > Article Display


Thanks for confirming that fubar. Do you know what the top row of marks are? I can't see them well enough.



fubar57 said:


> The top row symbols are top hats, standing for "Top Cover"


Haha, yes, or "Fighter Escort". I just discovered that when I found the attached table. Very helpful. Many thanks.

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 13, 2020)

Orig. US Foto USAAF Flugzeug P-51 Mustang am Flugplatz BARI Italien 1944 | eBay


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## Wurger (Mar 13, 2020)




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## fubar57 (Mar 13, 2020)

"Mary Mac" UPL 24731 | American Air Museum in Britain


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 13, 2020)

Orig. US Foto USAAF Flugzeug P-51 Mustang am Flugplatz BARI Italien 1944 | eBay


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## Wurger (Mar 13, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (Mar 13, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> "Mary Mac" UPL 24731 | American Air Museum in Britain
> 
> View attachment 573258​


Resp:
Nice shot. Has 'cuffed' propeller so likely a 'D' model.


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## Navalwarrior (Mar 13, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Orig. US Foto USAAF Flugzeug P-51 Mustang am Flugplatz BARI Italien 1944 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 573260


Resp:
Likely an A-36A.


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## fubar57 (Mar 13, 2020)

If you use the link it's likely a P-51D-10-NA

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 16, 2020)

WWII Aircraft Mechanics Photo Lot: Recovered P-51 Mustang, Shark Mouth Nose art! | eBay
WWII Aircraft Mechanics Photo Lot: Recovered P-51 Mustang, Shark Mouth Nose art! | eBay

P-51D-20-NA 44-63882

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## fubar57 (Mar 16, 2020)




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## Spitlead (Mar 16, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> WWII Aircraft Mechanics Photo Lot: Recovered P-51 Mustang, Shark Mouth Nose art! | eBay
> WWII Aircraft Mechanics Photo Lot: Recovered P-51 Mustang, Shark Mouth Nose art! | eBay
> 
> P-51D-20-NA 44-63882
> ...


I'm sure there is a story behind these photos. Most likely involving a tree or trees...


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## Airframes (Mar 17, 2020)

Looks like a belly landing to me.

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 17, 2020)

Korean War F-51 Mustang Fighter Planes on Airfield Photo | eBay

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## Wurger (Mar 17, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Mar 19, 2020)

WWI-WWII Aircraft Airplane Photograph Lot, RCAF Merlin, Northrup A-17 (P1) | eBay

Baugher:
43-6877 (355th FS, 354th FG, 9th AF) ground looped at RAF Lashenden, Kent, England May 27, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft damaged but repaired and converted to 2-seater by 461st Service Squadron May 1944 and used by 354th FG on Jul 4, 1944 used to fly General Eisenhower over front lines, thereafter being named *The Stars Look Down*.

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## Wurger (Mar 19, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (Mar 19, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> WWI-WWII Aircraft Airplane Photograph Lot, RCAF Merlin, Northrup A-17 (P1) | eBay
> 
> Baugher:
> 43-6877 (355th FS, 354th FG, 9th AF) ground looped at RAF Lashenden, Kent, England May 27, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft damaged but repaired and converted to 2-seater by 461st Service Squadron May 1944 and used by 354th FG on Jul 4, 1944 used to fly General Eisenhower over front lines, thereafter being named *The Stars Look Down*.
> ...



Resp:
Look closely. It has the flexible plastic rear canopy fitted! It is a two seater!


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## Wurger (Mar 19, 2020)

What is clearly stated in the Snautzer01's description typed above the pic..

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 19, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Look closely. It has the flexible plastic rear canopy fitted! It is a two seater!


I know  did you find this one? North American P-51 Mustang

Also a 2 seater.


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## Navalwarrior (Mar 19, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> WWI-WWII Aircraft Airplane Photograph Lot, RCAF Merlin, Northrup A-17 (P1) | eBay
> 
> Baugher:
> 43-6877 (355th FS, 354th FG, 9th AF) ground looped at RAF Lashenden, Kent, England May 27, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft damaged but repaired and converted to 2-seater by 461st Service Squadron May 1944 and used by 354th FG on Jul 4, 1944 used to fly General Eisenhower over front lines, thereafter being named *The Stars Look Down*.
> ...


Resp:
I made the comment because what was done to convert it to a two seater, was not the same material used to make a canopy. The material used was clear thick plastic, almost like heavy 'tent' material. Metal fasteners were used to snap the flexible clear plastic closed. Eisenhower could not free himself to bail out if required.

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 27, 2020)

*WWII photo- 354th Fighter Group -P 51 Mustang Fighter plane (43-12172) ESCORT* | eBay

Baugher:
43-12172 (555th FTS, 496th FTG, 8th AF) crashed during wheels-up belly landing at RAF Goxhill, Lincolnshire, England due to engine failure Sep 4, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft destroyed.
North American P-51B-1-NA

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## Wurger (Mar 27, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (Mar 27, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> *WWII photo- 354th Fighter Group -P 51 Mustang Fighter plane (43-12172) ESCORT* | eBay
> 
> Baugher:
> 43-12172 (555th FTS, 496th FTG, 8th AF) crashed during wheels-up belly landing at RAF Goxhill, Lincolnshire, England due to engine failure Sep 4, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft destroyed.
> ...


Reap:
Did FS share airfields with bomber groups? Or did the P-51 put down there because of some mechanical/fuel issue?


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 27, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Reap:
> Did FS share airfields with bomber groups? Or did the P-51 put down there because of some mechanical/fuel issue?


Lot of people around. Not usual.


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## Navalwarrior (Mar 28, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Lot of people around. Not usual.


Resp:
Seems like a lot of enlisted aircrew. Note heavy aircrew jackets.


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## ozhawk40 (Mar 29, 2020)

A clue in the milling aircrew - possibly landed with the 613BS/401BG at Deenethorpe.

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## Airframes (Mar 29, 2020)

It's possibly a visit to show the bomber crews the new fighter. This was done when the P-51 first came into service in the UK, not just to "show off" the new aircraft, but because it looked like the Bf109 at some angles. Or it may just have been a visit, or a diversion landing.

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## Navalwarrior (Mar 29, 2020)

Airframes said:


> It's possibly a visit to show the bomber crews the new fighter. This was done when the P-51 first came into service in the UK, not just to "show off" the new aircraft, but because it looked like the Bf109 at some angles. Or it may just have been a visit, or a diversion landing.


Resp:
Excellent theory, as the problem of misidentification as a 109 in the MTO prompted rhe USAAF to paint yellow bands on A-36As and F-6As in 1943. Now that the newer P-51s were beginning to operate in the ETO, having aircrew, particularly gunners, view it to become acquainted with it makes perfect sense.


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## Airframes (Mar 29, 2020)

And also the reason for the white bands on wings, tail and nose (black bands on NMF aircraft).


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## MIflyer (Mar 29, 2020)

Here is some exciting Mustang artwork freely available over at Archive.org.

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## Peter Gunn (Mar 30, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> *WWII photo- 354th Fighter Group -P 51 Mustang Fighter plane (43-12172) ESCORT* | eBay
> 
> Baugher:
> 43-12172 (555th FTS, 496th FTG, 8th AF) crashed during wheels-up belly landing at RAF Goxhill, Lincolnshire, England due to engine failure Sep 4, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft destroyed.
> ...


I don't think she's new anymore, if the date of September 1944 is correct, also she's showing signs of wear and tear, all the bare metal spots showing through and look at the spinner and right behind it on the nose, looks like fluid is dirtying up the front end along with the exhaust burn on the fuselage. My guess is she set down at the closest base because of mechanical issues.

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## Navalwarrior (Mar 30, 2020)

Peter Gunn said:


> I don't think she's new anymore, if the date of September 1944 is correct, also she's showing signs of wear and tear, all the bare metal spots showing through and look at the spinner and right behind it on the nose, looks like fluid is dirtying up the front end along with the exhaust burn on the fuselage. My guess is she set down at the closest base because of mechanical issues.


Resp:
It is a P-51B-1, which means it was one of the initial Mustangs to reach the ETO. My guess is the photo is pre-June 6 as there are no D-Day stripes. The statement of crashing was just letting us know the aircraft's eventual fate.

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## Snautzer01 (Apr 10, 2020)

353 - 35mm Generic Aircraft Slide - P-51B Mustang NX1204 "RACE 46" ORCO Mar 1962 | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Apr 10, 2020)

Original 35mm Slide Military Arircraft/Plane USAAF P-51D 44-13321 #P400 | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 10, 2020)

Original 35mm Slide Military Arircraft/Plane USAAF P-51D 44-13317 Jun 1993 #P401 | eBay


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## Wurger (Apr 11, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Apr 12, 2020)

WWII Orig. Photo USAAF P51 With Noseart On Escort | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Apr 12, 2020)

WWII US Orig. Photo USAAF P51 With Invasion Stripes In Formation | eBay

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## Wayne Little (Apr 12, 2020)

Cool.


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## Navalwarrior (Apr 12, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> WWII Orig. Photo USAAF P51 With Noseart On Escort | eBay
> 
> View attachment 577106


Resp:
This is the first 'in flight' WWII photo of a B/C variant with dorsal fin that I have seen. Italy base FG?


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## Wurger (Apr 12, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Apr 22, 2020)

Org. Photo: 352nd Fighter Group P-51 Fighter Plane (#42-106613; Shot Down 1944)! | eBay

42-106613 (352nd FG, 486th FS) hit by AAA 20 Mi NW of Hannover, Germany and crashed km SW of Engelern, Germany Oct 24, 1944. MACR 10116

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## Snautzer01 (Apr 22, 2020)

Org. Photo: P-51 Fighter Planes Parked on Busy Airfield!!! | eBay

2 3 bladed prop.

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## Crimea_River (Apr 22, 2020)

Allison powered.


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## Navalwarrior (Apr 22, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo: P-51 Fighter Planes Parked on Busy Airfield!!! | eBay
> 
> 2 3 bladed prop.
> 
> View attachment 578386


Resp:
Merlin and Allison engined Mustangs. At left looks to be a couple of P-40s with a B-25 in foreground. Nice!


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## Navalwarrior (Apr 22, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo: 352nd Fighter Group P-51 Fighter Plane (#42-106613; Shot Down 1944)! | eBay
> 
> 42-106613 (352nd FG, 486th FS) hit by AAA 20 Mi NW of Hannover, Germany and crashed km SW of Engelern, Germany Oct 24, 1944. MACR 10116
> 
> ...


Resp:
Looks like newly applied Invasion Stripes. The b/w paint looks very clean compared to the rest of the aircraft.


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 24, 2020)

USAF Army Air Force P-51 Mustang Fighter Plane Silver Streak Photo | eBay

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## Navalwarrior (Apr 24, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> USAF Army Air Force P-51 Mustang Fighter Plane Silver Streak Photo | eBay
> 
> View attachment 578630


Resp:
It is definitely winter there (US or England?), as he is also wearing gloves. It is an Allison engine Mustang. Note metal patch on lower nose gun port. Is it a cleaned up A-36A or one of the X-P-51s?


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## Peter Gunn (Apr 24, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> USAF Army Air Force P-51 Mustang Fighter Plane Silver Streak Photo | eBay
> 
> View attachment 578630


An interesting study here, the Mustang looks demilitarized and pretty clean. I don't see any squadron markings by the Star/Bar and it almost looks like the same field in post #573. I have to admit, that is a beautiful little bird he's leaning against, could it be a "personal transport" or a War Weary Allison used as a squadron hack? But no squadron/group codes is puzzling.

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## Crimea_River (Apr 24, 2020)

Also. a B-25 behind it and what looks to be an Avenger behind that. Maybe a display of some sort.


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## fubar57 (Apr 24, 2020)

And in the very back, an L-4?


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## Gnomey (Apr 26, 2020)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 27, 2020)

*WWII photo- 479th Fighter Group- P 51 Mustang plane Nose Art - AMBROSIA* | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 27, 2020)

*WWII photo- 356th FG- P 51 Mustang Fighter plane Nose Art - PATTY (44-15289)* | eBay

P-51D-15-NA Mustang

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## Snautzer01 (Apr 27, 2020)

*WWII photo- 356th Fighter Group- P 51 Mustang Fighter plane (44-15101) QI-I* | eBay

Baugher: P-51D-15-NA 44-15101 (361st FS, 356th FG, 8th AF) in landing accident at Cambrai/Niergnies airfield A-74, Cambrai, France Jan 16, 1945. Pilot survived but aircraft was destroyed.

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## Wurger (Apr 27, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (Apr 27, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> *WWII photo- 479th Fighter Group- P 51 Mustang plane Nose Art - AMBROSIA* | eBay
> 
> View attachment 579059


Resp:
From the position of the wheel well covers, the Merlin was recently run up. Whether for maintenance ck or return from a mission.


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## Gnomey (Apr 29, 2020)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (May 1, 2020)

WW2 China Photograph 1946 Tsingtao Tientsin Tower USMC Marine Aviator Pilot Pose | eBay


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## Navalwarrior (May 1, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> WW2 China Photograph 1946 Tsingtao Tientsin Tower USMC Marine Aviator Pilot Pose | eBay
> 
> View attachment 579524


Resp:
I wonder if these P-51s stayed in China for use by CAF.


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## Wurger (May 1, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (May 6, 2020)

Org. Photo: British RAF No.2 Sqdn Mustang MK.I Fighter (AG550; XV U; Lost 1943)! | eBay

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## Wurger (May 6, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (May 6, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo: British RAF No.2 Sqdn Mustang MK.I Fighter (AG550; XV U; Lost 1943)! | eBay
> 
> View attachment 580281


Resp:
Nice! But the real question . . . what type of aircraft was the photo taken from. A Wellington?


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## ColFord (May 6, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo: British RAF No.2 Sqdn Mustang MK.I Fighter (AG550; XV U; Lost 1943)! | eBay


Photo looks to be one from the original photo shoot by Air Ministry photographers of the then recently arrived N.A. Mustang Mk.Is with No.II(AC) Squadron in mid-1942. In that instance the aircraft used for the air to air photo sequences was a Bristol Beaufort. Others in same sequence in IWM online collection include CH.17411, CH.7064, CH.17401, CH.17407, amongst just a few. Photos from that early photo session with No.II(AC) Squadron RAF turn up regularly, especially as they were used quite widely during the War for PR and press purposes.

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## Navalwarrior (May 6, 2020)

ColFord said:


> Photo looks to be one from the original photo shoot by Air Ministry photographers of the then recently arrived N.A. Mustang Mk.Is with No.II(AC) Squadron in mid-1942. In that instance the aircraft used for the air to air photo sequences was a Bristol Beaufort. Others in same sequence in IWM online collection include CH.17411, CH.7064, CH.17401, CH.17407, amongst just a few. Photos from that early photo session with No.II(AC) Squadron RAF turn up regularly, especially as they were used quite widely during the War for PR and press purposes.


Resp:
Thanks much.


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## Snautzer01 (May 8, 2020)

1943 Press Photo a camel & his Arab master check out a U.S. A36 plane, N. Africa | eBay

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## Wurger (May 8, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (May 13, 2020)

WWII Orig. Photo USAAF P-51 "Gloria" On Escort #2 | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (May 13, 2020)

Press Photo: RARE! 354th Fighter Group Pilot Brief by P51 Fighter (#44-63607)!!! | eBay

P-51D-20-NA. Colours and markings of Lieutenant Colonel Glenn T. Eagleston while he was CO of the 353rd FS, 354th FG based at Rosières-en-Haye, France

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## Wurger (May 13, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (May 13, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> WWII Orig. Photo USAAF P-51 "Gloria" On Escort #2 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 581173


Resp:
Another view of an earlier posted Mustang w dorsal fin.


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## Snautzer01 (May 14, 2020)

Large Picture of WWII CBI Pilot Clarance R. Kline Hand Signed | eBay

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## Wurger (May 14, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (May 14, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Large Picture of WWII CBI Pilot Clarance R. Kline Hand Signed | eBay[/URL
> View attachment 581306



Resp:
Looks to be in relatively unused condition. Look at the aluminum behind the exhaust . . . no tarnishing. Likely a new arrival.

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## Snautzer01 (May 14, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Looks to be in relatively unused condition. Look at the aluminum behind the exhaust . . . no tarnishing. Likely a new arrival.


Or a new paintjob perhaps. Shiny new teeth would be a reason for me to pose.


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## Crimea_River (May 14, 2020)

I'd rather know what the contraption is just to the left of the landing light.


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## Dana Bell (May 14, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Large Picture of WWII CBI Pilot Clarance R. Kline Hand Signed | eBay
> 
> View attachment 581306



Neat shot - I just won it on eBay. Looks like the underwing mounting bracket for the bazooka tubes. More important for me, I think this is the 16th FS (51st FG) - a unit I seen only one other photo of!

Cheers,



Dana

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## Navalwarrior (May 19, 2020)

Dana Bell said:


> Neat shot - I just won it on eBay. Looks like the underwing mounting bracket for the bazooka tubes. More important for me, I think this is the 16th FS (51st FG) - a unit I seen only one other photo of!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...


Resp:
I also noticed it. A field mod? 
A question: Anyone know how many different P-51s the Maj George Preddy flew? He flew P-40s against the Japanese, and initially a P-47 in the ETO . . . but what about his P-51s? I have seen a painting of his P-51B and a photo of his P-51D-5-NA. Did his -5-NA receive a field 'dorsal fin,' or were there separate 'Cripes A'Mighty?'


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## mjfur (May 19, 2020)

Dana Bell said:


> Neat shot - I just won it on eBay. Looks like the underwing mounting bracket for the bazooka tubes. More important for me, I think this is the 16th FS (51st FG) - a unit I seen only one other photo of!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...



Specifically 16th FS or 51st FG in general?

Photo by Alan Dugdale

Photo by Alan Dugdale

P-51B Mustang 261of the 26th FS 51st Fighter Group | World War Photos



Photo by Alan Dugdale

P-51B Mustang 51st Fighter Group shark mouth 43-7058 | World War Photos

P-51 51st FG 16th FS | World War Photos

Forums / USAAF / USN Library / 51st Fighter Group - Axis and Allies Paintworks

Photo by Alan Dugdale

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## Dana Bell (May 20, 2020)

Hi Alan,

Yeah, specifically the 16th FS with Mustangs. There are tons of pix of the 51st, but I've only seen one other image of the 16th's P-51 striped tail markings. I'm not sure why there were so few pix.

I used to manage the USAF's WWII still photo collection and spent a couple of years putting all the pieces back together - there was only one photo there of a 16th P-51.

Cheers,


Dana


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## drgondog (May 22, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> An F-6B, the photo graphic version of a P-51A. Often incorrectly listed as an F-6A.



AAF sorted out the confusion created when the first P-51-1-NA was converted to photo recon and often referred to as F-6A. In 1944 the AAF referred to it as F-6, P-51A as F-6A, P-51B as F-6B and P-51C as F-6C.
Other naming conventions existed such as Depot modified P-51B-5 as P-51B-6. In short it was a mess. Bob Bourlier has done yeoman's work in sorting these out but it was chaos in 1943/early 1944

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## Navalwarrior (May 22, 2020)

drgondog said:


> AAF sorted out the confusion created when the first P-51-1-NA was converted to photo recon and often referred to as F-6A. In 1944 the AAF referred to it as F-6, P-51A as F-6A, P-51B as F-6B and P-51C as F-6C.
> Other naming conventions existed such as Depot modified P-51B-5 as P-51B-6. In short it was a mess. Bob Bourlier has done yeoman's work in sorting these out but it was chaos in 1943/early 1944


Resp:
I am afraid the transition of Letters didn't follow. The breakdown is as follows:
- Held back Mustang MkIA by USAAF (after Pearl Harbor) initially became P-51-1 (as well as -2 and a few -3), the again redesignated as F-6A when retro fitted with cameras (however, all retained black stenciling 'P-51-1' under cockpit on left fuselage just forward of cockpit).
- P-51A Mustangs, most were also fitted with cameras were redesignated as F-6B, lettering was again left as 
'P-51A' on fuselage.
- P-51B and P-51C fitted with cameras became F-6C
- P-51D fitted with cameras became F-6D
- P-51K fitted with camera became F-6K
Sorry 
If the USAAF had 'lettered' the held back RAF Mustang MkIA for the US and redesignated these first Mustnags entering service with an 'A' after P-51 instead of just '-1' it may have prevented much of this discussion. But knowing the history of the USAAC/USAAF I kind of doubt it. I have searched unit websites of WWII USAAF units and have found photos of Allison engined Mustangs 'labeled' P-51B, as one example.


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## fubar57 (May 22, 2020)

LOL


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## drgondog (May 23, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> I am afraid the transition of Letters didn't follow. The breakdown is as follows:
> - Held back Mustang MkIA by USAAF (after Pearl Harbor) initially became P-51-1 (as well as -2 and a few -3), the again redesignated as F-6A when retro fitted with cameras (however, all retained black stenciling 'P-51-1' under cockpit on left fuselage just forward of cockpit).
> - P-51A Mustangs, most were also fitted with cameras were redesignated as F-6B, lettering was again left as
> ...


Many variations in field terminology existed. That said here are a few digs from friend Bob Bourlier who has pried the lid from the F-6A, P-51A-11, F-6b and F-6C mess.
Start with the Mission assignments in CBI for 160 recon. Look carefully at the serial numbers. The 43-6xxx P-51B-5 are from contract AC 30479 which originally was the foundation contract for the P-51A. When the P-51A-11 was converted Recon, it was initially designated F-6B s the F-6A was still operational in MTO and CBI. The initial P-51B-1 and -5 were designated F-6C, but even the AAF-MC realized they had a confusing mess when the P-51C was so modified at the same time the first recon Ds were converted.. I will post the MC document explaining the different recon models in the next post after the few P-51-1/F-6A were all gone. From that time all P-51B (-1 through -15) recon versions were designated as F-6B, and all P-51C remained F-6C

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## fubar57 (May 23, 2020)

Thank you very much for that


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## Snautzer01 (May 23, 2020)

And i thought only the Germans messed up there airplane codings. Bloody amateurs compared to this.


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## drgondog (May 23, 2020)

To continue - The Recon table as defined below was dated mid 1944 but I can't find the preceding page. Note the unusual absence of discussion about P-51A-11 "F6" designation. To help muddy up the waters the AC 30479 contract covered P-51A through 310 ships, continued into P-51B (NA-104) for -5 through -15, then extended to cover NA-106 to build the P-51D. The latter was originally set for 600 P-51D with birdcage canopy/six gun wing - but scaled to two ships, then re-distributed in summer 1943, along with NA-107, into AC 40063 (NA-109 P-51D-5 through -15 NT at Inglewood) and AC 40064 (NA-111 P-51C-10 NT and P-51D/K and P-51D-20NT). All these contracts were let from June 42 to May 1943 and the list ends with P-51C-10 NT and P-51D-5 NA with no mention of P-51D-10 or P-51D-5 NT or P-51K-1 NT which were delivered after August 1944

All pointing to presented difference in which P-51B-5 thru -15 NA as F-6B-1 (noted in comments as "similar to P-51A" but Merlin engine) BUT the earlier P-51B-1 was designated at this time as *F-6C-1-NA then follow with P-51C-1 NT as F-6C-1-NT. Clearly some crossover in mid 1944*

Continue to the second Table with mixture of MACR/accident reports. Note that in the 'type reported' column for the dates Dec 1943 through early May 1944 that the P-51 was referred as only P-51 in the MACR - not F-6A.

Note beginning in May, the MACR referred to P-51A as P-51A and P-51A-11, then thereafter as F-6A. Sometime in mid to late 1944 the AAF-MC issued a series of documents (including the one that designated all NAA fighters in AAF service to be referred to as Mustangs (including P-51 and A-36). It was this block of docs that finally sorted F-6A=P-51A, F-6B=P-51B, F-6C=P-51C; F-6D=P-51D, F-6K=P-51K.

Bob Bourlier has done an excellent job of research into Recon Mustangs and most of this data is sourced through him.

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## Navalwarrior (May 23, 2020)

drgondog said:


> To continue - The Recon table as defined below was dated mid 1944 but I can't find the preceding page. Note the unusual absence of discussion about P-51A-11 "F6" designation. To help muddy up the waters the AC 30479 contract covered P-51A through 310 ships, continued into P-51B (NA-104) for -5 through -15, then extended to cover NA-106 to build the P-51D. The latter was originally set for 600 P-51D with birdcage canopy/six gun wing - but scaled to two ships, then re-distributed in summer 1943, along with NA-107, into AC 40063 (NA-109 P-51D-5 through -15 NT at Inglewood) and AC 40064 (NA-111 P-51C-10 NT and P-51D/K and P-51D-20NT). All these contracts were let from June 42 to May 1943 and the list ends with P-51C-10 NT and P-51D-5 NA with no mention of P-51D-10 or P-51D-5 NT or P-51K-1 NT which were delivered after August 1944
> 
> All pointing to presented difference in which P-51B-5 thru -15 NA as F-6B-1 (noted in comments as "similar to P-51A" but Merlin engine) BUT the earlier P-51B-1 was designated at this time as *F-6C-1-NA then follow with P-51C-1 NT as F-6C-1-NT. Clearly some crossover in mid 1944*
> Resp:
> ...


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## Navalwarrior (May 23, 2020)

Resp:
Thanks drgondog. I am still skeptical. It is food for thought. My two sources are Aircraft of World War II, Amber Books, UK, 2017 and Allison-Engined P-51 Mustang, by Martyn Chorlto, Osprey Ltd, 2012. The British are meticulous in their research, hence the reason we used JANES for combat ship identification.


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## drgondog (May 23, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Thanks drgondog. I am still skeptical. It is food for thought. My two sources are Aircraft of World War II, Amber Books, UK, 2017 and Allison-Engined P-51 Mustang, by Martyn Chorlto, Osprey Ltd, 2012. The British are meticulous in their research, hence the reason we used JANES for combat ship identification.


The lore and record trail of the Mustang recon ships in the service of the US is tortuous - ditto the RAF mods, for which I owe Colin Ford a great deal for his contribution to my new book (with Lowell Ford).

FWIIW the MACRs are the defining docs because they serial numbers and dash number description are sourced with the Engineering Office of each unit and explicitly extracted from the form 1 and 65 (IIRC), NOT the data block.

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## ColFord (May 23, 2020)

Unfortunately I would not consider the Allison-Engined P-51 Mustang by Chorlton to be a reliable reference. It is riddled with errors of fact, especially the sections attempting to set out RAF operational use of the Mustang. It repeatedly gets aircraft types and sub-types used by RAF Squadrons incorrect, and it repeats many of the errors from earlier Mustang books that are incorrect. The profiles that are included in a number of instances are farcical - for example the side profile of a Mustang Mk.I of No.II(AC) Squadron RAF XV-E AG633, which in the caption indicates it was lost in a landing accident at the end of 1942 (which it was), yet is depicted with D-Day distinctive marking on its lower surfaces!! It is a book where any original and accurate research was sadly lacking.

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## Navalwarrior (May 26, 2020)

drgondog said:


> The lore and record trail of the Mustang recon ships in the service of the US is tortuous - ditto the RAF mods, for which I owe Colin Ford a great deal for his contribution to my new book (with Lowell Ford).
> 
> FWIIW the MACRs are the defining docs because they serial numbers and dash number description are sourced with the Engineering Office of each unit and explicitly extracted from the form 1 and 65 (IIRC), NOT the data block.


Resp:
I want a copy of your new book on the Mustang! To some degree, the numerous errors makes the hunt for accuracy of the Mustang variants that much more enjoyable. I too saw errors in Chorlton's book. I penciled in corrective notes in those cases.


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## drgondog (May 26, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> I want a copy of your new book on the Mustang! To some degree, the numerous errors makes the hunt for accuracy of the Mustang variants that much more enjoyable. I too saw errors in Chorlton's book. I penciled in corrective notes in those cases.


Lol - well get your pencil ready, I already sent in a request to Osprey to insert an 'erata' sheet for some missed serial numbers and slightly 'off' dates.


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## Navalwarrior (May 26, 2020)

drgondog said:


> Lol - well get your pencil ready, I already sent in a request to Osprey to insert an 'erata' sheet for some missed serial numbers and slightly 'off' dates.


Resp:
Roger. LOL!
The following is from: Rickard, J (7 June 2007) North American F-6 Mustang, http://www.historyofwar.org/articlesofwar.org/articles/weapons_F-5_Mustang.html
F-6A based on P-51 55
F-6B based on P-51A. 35
F-6C-NA based on P-51B. 71
F-6C-NT based on P-51C 20
F-6D based on P-51D-NT 136
F-6K based on P-51K. 164
Just so you know I am not making this stuff up. LOL!


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## ColFord (May 26, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Roger. LOL!
> The following is from: Rickard, J (7 June 2007) North American F-6 Mustang, http://www.historyofwar.org/articlesofwar.org/articles/weapons_F-5_Mustang.html
> F-6A based on P-51 55
> ...



Well the guy who runs that site, I don't know where he gets his "facts" from, but it contains so much incorrect information on the Mustang it is laughable. As an example to quote just one little bit about the Mustang Mk.I he states:
_The first RAF squadron to receive the Mustang was No. 2, which received the new aircraft in April 1942. The first operational sortie, an attack on a German airbase in France, took place on 10 May 1942. A more significant first came on 27 July, when Mustang Is of No. 2 Squadron became the first single engined allied fighter aircraft to enter German airspace since the French campaign of 1940. Their mission was an attack on targets in the Ruhr._

No.26 Squadron RAF was the first RAF Squadron to receive the Mustang Mk.I and use them operationally.
Sortie by No.2 Squadron RAF of 27 July 1942 - never happened. 
First sortie by RAF Mustang Mk.I over western Germany was on 21 October 1942 and was conducted by 4 x Mustang Mk.I aircraft of No.268 Squadron RAF into the area of the Dortmund-Ems Canal, well to the north of the Ruhr.

Re the F-6 numbers, he has noted in an update that Robert Bourlier has identified significantly higher numbers modified to those in the table he provides, but has not updated the table. Also he does not anywhere in any of his precis about various aircraft types, cite his sources for the information he posts up on his site.

So not the best authoratative or factually correct site to rely on.

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## drgondog (May 27, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Roger. LOL!
> The following is from: Rickard, J (7 June 2007) North American F-6 Mustang, http://www.historyofwar.org/articlesofwar.org/articles/weapons_F-5_Mustang.html
> F-6A based on P-51 55
> ...


I know that. In my latest book, I ignored many publications on Mustangs simply because they repeated many errors by previous authors. That list was 'true' on or about April/May 1944. That said, examination of MACRs and Mission Planning docs would have given Rickard food for thought to dig deeper than the AAF-MC documents that are most commonly used - and which I presented to you above,


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## Navalwarrior (May 27, 2020)

drgondog said:


> I know that. In my latest book, I ignored many publications on Mustangs simply because they repeated many errors by previous authors. That list was 'true' on or about April/May 1944. That said, examination of MACRs and Mission Planning docs would have given Rickard food for thought to dig deeper than the AAF-MC documents that are most commonly used - and which I presented to you above,


Resp:
I will wait for your book. Please finish it soon. Thanks.
Just FYI: The Yanks Air Museum of Chino, CA lists their Allison engined P-51A in the write up as "The only surviving F-6B of the 35 modified."


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## Navalwarrior (May 28, 2020)

ColFord said:


> Well the guy who runs that site, I don't know where he gets his "facts" from, but it contains so much incorrect information on the Mustang it is laughable. As an example to quote just one little bit about the Mustang Mk.I he states:
> _The first RAF squadron to receive the Mustang was No. 2, which received the new aircraft in April 1942. The first operational sortie, an attack on a German airbase in France, took place on 10 May 1942. A more significant first came on 27 July, when Mustang Is of No. 2 Squadron became the first single engined allied fighter aircraft to enter German airspace since the French campaign of 1940. Their mission was an attack on targets in the Ruhr._
> 
> No.26 Squadron RAF was the first RAF Squadron to receive the Mustang Mk.I and use them operationally.
> ...


Resp:
ColFord, that is the 'rub' we all are experiencing . . . lack of accurate info. I am not dreaming up what I am seeing (20+ years of searching) and do not expect this situation to fade any time soon. I do appreciate your comments and the work you and drgondog are doing. I am also a fan of the F4U Corsair. Most authorities believe that the -1A was never used to denote the F4U-1A variant. But I have found USMC maintenance forms dated 1944 with the designation F4U-1A at the top of the form. So, I am careful to never say 'never!' 
So my question is, who and why has used the designation F-6B, etc to denote a Photo-Recon converted Mustang P-51A? Is in an inappropriate extrapolation?

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## Dana Bell (May 28, 2020)

"ColFord, that is the 'rub' we all are experiencing . . . lack of accurate info. I am not dreaming up what I am seeing (20+ years of searching) and do not expect this situation to fade any time soon. I do appreciate your comments and the work you and drgondog are doing. I am also a fan of the F4U Corsair. Most authorities believe that the -1A was never used to denote the F4U-1A variant. But I have found USMC maintenance forms dated 1944 with the designation F4U-1A at the top of the form. So, I am careful to never say 'never!'
So my question is, who and why has used the designation F-6B, etc to denote a Photo-Recon converted Mustang P-51A? Is in an inappropriate extrapolation?"

Designations are a pain in the butt, and the more time I spend in the Archives (will they ever reopen?) the more I find revisions to what we all "know" to be true.

With -1 Corsairs, the BuAer had intended to revise all Birdcage Corsairs to raised cockpit standards and denied Vought permission to use a new designation "-1A" to differentiate the original cockpit from the raised cockpit. However, Vought received permission to use "-1A" in company records to clarify which drawings went with the revised cockpit. The original Birdcages were clapped out by the time the "-1A" started reaching units -- not worth the cost of revision -- so the Vought designation came into common (but not official) use.

Similarly, Vought used the F4U-1B designation for internal records on Brit-modified Corsairs. Then came the question of designations for British -1As - Vought wondered if they should be F4U-1ABs or F4U-1BAs. BuAer cried _Nonsense!_ and reminded Vought that none of these designations was official.

To avoid further internal confusion, the cannon-armed modifications became -1Cs and the twin-pylon mods became -1Ds. The cannon-armed -4s became F4U-4Cs until 1946 when the Navy decided that the "B" suffix would be used for special armament mods and all the F4U-1Cs became F4U-1Bs.

*TYPO!!! I should have types that the F4U-4Cs were redesignated F4U-4Bs More below...*

The Army was just as bad. The "F-xx" designations originally went for mapping aircraft, but most early war mapping aircraft (such as 1942 versions of the mapping B-17s and B-24s) were not redesignated. Likewise, the tac recon Mustangs flew under their respective P-51 designations. Somewhere along the line headquarters decided to go back and "correct" that oversight. I found some correspondence on this, but never filed it in my Mustang files. (I've a six-foot stack of papers that I'm slowly working my way through, but I didn't really retire to become a file clerk in my own basement!)

One Mustang document that might be of interest here relates to the original P-51B and P-51C designations. The addition of the Merlin engine led to some aerodynamic concerns and minor repositioning of the wing. The P-51B was originally to be produced with the Merlin, but without the repositioned wing; the new wing was planned for the P-51C. Obviously, both models went into production with the repositioned wing, but I've never seen the original designations explained in any of the many Mustang books.

Then there's my all-time favorite Wright Field inter-office memo on the P-51, dated 28 August 1942. It doesn't relate directly to designations, but I'll drop it in here in its entirety:

Left by Alec Burton together with the dope on the Griffin 61, this date. "Dutch" Kindleberger says the Merlin 28 is out for installation in the P-51, but they are going full blast on the Merlin 61. About all the re-design necessary is to move the wing forward 3 inches and down 1 inch; also, the nose will be dropped a little to give better visibility than in the P-51.

If the aerodynamics isn't ruined, looks like they might have a pretty good airplane.

That one should be in the dictionary next to "understatement...

Cheers,



Dana

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## Dana Bell (May 28, 2020)

But wait, there's more...

I just dug out the 28 July 1942 Wright Field memo asking to use the designation XP-78-NA for the "new" North American Fighter, Interceptor. Washington responded on 20 August:

Classification as Experimental is approved for the P-51 Airplane with Packard Rolls-Royce Merlin 61 engine installed. It is most desirable that the production airplane be given a model designation which will definitely identify it as one of the P-51 series. Although the different engine definitely changes the performance of the airplane, it will still remain basically a P-51. Due to the work which the British are carrying on with this airplane and engine, and the very optimistic view of the project held by Materiel Command, the classification Limited Procurement might well apply and is hereby approved provided the airplane be called P-51 with an appropriate suffix added.

By command of Lieutenant General Arnold.

That doesn't clarify just why the P-78 designation wasn't accepted, but at least we know who made the decision.

Cheers (again),


Dana


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## drgondog (May 28, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> I will wait for your book. Please finish it soon. Thanks.
> Just FYI: The Yanks Air Museum of Chino, CA lists their Allison engined P-51A in the write up as "The only surviving F-6B of the 35 modified."



The book was at the presses in Feb for June release. I think Covid issues will delay but Amazon has been taking orders since November


Dana Bell said:


> But wait, there's more...
> 
> I just dug out the 28 July 1942 Wright Field memo asking to use the designation XP-78-NA for the "new" North American Fighter, Interceptor. Washington responded on 20 August:
> 
> ...


XP-78 was accepted as of May 1942 when the paperwork for NA-101 was negotiated to install the Merlin (unspecified whether 1650-1 or -3 at that time. Between the time NA-101 was executed in July and NA-102 P-51B-1 contract in late August, the name was formally changed by Materiel Command and the decision to install the Merlin 61 was made. It was also at this time that the NA-99 P-51A contract could cancelled and balance of 1200 a/c be switched to NA-104 P-51B-5


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## MIflyer (May 28, 2020)

I thunk I know where some of that info came from. William Green's little book on fighters Vol 4 says that No 2 Sqdrn RAF was the first to operate the Mustang MKI, getting them in April 1942 and the first sortie being 27 Jul. It also says that in Oct 1942 the Mustang MKI first penetrated the German border with a raid on the Dortmund-Ems Canal.


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## Zipper730 (May 28, 2020)

Dana Bell said:


> Designations are a pain in the butt, and the more time I spend in the Archives (will they ever reopen?) the more I find revisions to what we all "know" to be true.


Okay, so the F4U-1A was a designation that was created by Chance Vought itself, but ended up in official use through some kind of osmosis? I'm guessing F4U-1B was for *B*ritish, as it wasn't official but also internal.

From what I remember, the USN used the -C as sub-variant indicating cannon armament. Did the USN have a -D designation?


> The cannon-armed -4s became F4U-4Cs until 1946 when the Navy decided that the "B" suffix would be used for special armament mods and all the F4U-1Cs became F4U-1Bs.


So that just leaves F4U-1 (birdcage), F4U-1A (non-birdcage), F4U-1B (special armament)?


> The Army was just as bad.


The photo-recon designations (F) were a pain in the ass. It was just a hodge-podge group of fighters and bombers that were used as reconnaissance birds (except the XF-11 and XF-12). To make it more interesting the P-38 had two designations (F-4 & F-5).

I didn't know some B-17, B-24, and P-51 variants flew without an "F" designation.


> One Mustang document that might be of interest here relates to the original P-51B and P-51C designations. The addition of the Merlin engine led to some aerodynamic concerns and minor repositioning of the wing. The P-51B was originally to be produced with the Merlin, but without the repositioned wing; the new wing was planned for the P-51C. Obviously, both models went into production with the repositioned wing, but I've never seen the original designations explained in any of the many Mustang books.


I thought the wing position was needed to be moved forward and down for the Merlin 60's to work? Did the original plan call for the Merlin 28 in the B?


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## Dana Bell (May 28, 2020)

Zipper730 said:


> Okay, so the F4U-1A was a designation that was created by Chance Vought itself, but ended up in official use through some kind of osmosis? I'm guessing F4U-1B was for *B*ritish, as it wasn't official but also internal.
> 
> Osmosis? Yes. It also turned up in manuals, but Vought wrote the manuals. And the B was for British.
> 
> ...



Sure did. Notably, camera-armed P-39s, P-40s, and P-47s never received "F-" designations. I'm not sure how far the plans for a Merlin 28 Mustang went, but clearly there had to have been some sort of a plan for the plan to be abandoned.

Cheers,



Dana

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## Zipper730 (May 28, 2020)

Dana Bell said:


> Osmosis? Yes. It also turned up in manuals, but Vought wrote the manuals. And the B was for British.


Okay, that makes a lot of sense.


> Back to the F4U-1s, the -1 and -1B were Vought designations, the -1C was the cannon-armed version (regardless of which aircraft the cannons were mounted in).


So, it means it was _capable_ of carrying cannon if need be?


> The Navy used the -1D to designate the aircraft with two pylons because to call those aircraft -1As or -1Bs would have resulted in major confusion inside the Vought plant.


So the -D model was created to differentiate it from the corporate F4U-1A/B, and the USN's F4U-1C? It's interesting how convoluted things can get.

Ever heard of the XFY Pogo and F2Y? Ironically, the F2Y was procured and flew first, but got the designation due to some snafu in the in-house designation Convair used.


> I've never found the paperwork explaining why the F-5A designation was assigned - F-4B would have made more sense. I see two possibilities - (1) F-4s were built as such by Lockheed, while F-5s were converted from P38s or (2) F-4 cameras were laid out for recon, while F-5 cameras could also do mapping. Just guesses, but I'd love to find proof of either...


That's an interesting point, but I figure whether modified or converted you could just use a different letter regardless.


> I'm not sure how far the plans for a Merlin 28 Mustang went, but clearly there had to have been some sort of a plan for the plan to be abandoned.


Makes sense to me, unless time starts flowing backwards.


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## ColFord (May 28, 2020)

MIflyer said:


> I thunk I know where some of that info came from. William Green's little book on fighters Vol 4 says that No 2 Sqdrn RAF was the first to operate the Mustang MKI, getting them in April 1942 and the first sortie being 27 Jul. It also says that in Oct 1942 the Mustang MKI first penetrated the German border with a raid on the Dortmund-Ems Canal.



I went and had a look at the publication dates for the series of early books by William Green, his various titles on Fighters of WW2 across a number of volumes and aircraft of WW2 and US Fighters of WW2, and the first has an original publication date of 1957 and the last an original publication date of 1971, all with various republication and reprints by other publishers going to the late 1970s and very early 1980s. 

Given the original publication dates, allowing time before then to research, write and publish, these all came out BEFORE the Air Ministry files and RAF WW2 era Operational Record Books relating to the Mustang and RAF Squadrons that operated the Mustang were declassified. So the primary sources available back then would have been official wartime press releases, original newspaper and magazine press clippings and similar. 

To get access to the files before the early 1980s, you normally had to be someone serving in the UK armed services with a valid reason for access, or a researcher/writer/author/historian in the "good graces" of the powers that be, usually the RAF Air Historical Branch or someone very high up in the RAF. Even those who were writing the RAF Official Histories of WW2 didn't always have full access to all the relevant files due to the perceived secrecy and sensitivity around some operational, policy and other events and decisions, and had editorial direction to avoid coverage of some items in any detail.

The other problem that then arises is that some of the Air Ministry and RAF files were culled in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s as a part of the repeated rounds of cost savings, often on the basis that they no longer had any relevance to aircraft types currently in RAF service, were purely technical in nature, purely administrative in nature or similar. Or just costing too much to store. You then end up with gaps in the available records, with surviving files referring to correspondence and documentation in other files that were destroyed/disposed of in the culls.

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## chipieal (May 28, 2020)

What is the story of the two pictures of a P - 51 with what appears to be two jets slung under the wing ala Me 262?


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## MIflyer (May 29, 2020)

I suspect the "No.2 Sqdrn" in the Green book was a simple typo, leaving off the 2nd digit, and it was then continued by others.


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## Navalwarrior (May 29, 2020)

Dana Bell said:


> "ColFord, that is the 'rub' we all are experiencing . . . lack of accurate info. I am not dreaming up what I am seeing (20+ years of searching) and do not expect this situation to fade any time soon. I do appreciate your comments and the work you and drgondog are doing. I am also a fan of the F4U Corsair. Most authorities believe that the -1A was never used to denote the F4U-1A variant. But I have found USMC maintenance forms dated 1944 with the designation F4U-1A at the top of the form. So, I am careful to never say 'never!'
> So my question is, who and why has used the designation F-6B, etc to denote a Photo-Recon converted Mustang P-51A? Is in an inappropriate extrapolation?"
> 
> Designations are a pain in the butt, and the more time I spend in the Archives (will they ever reopen?) the more I find revisions to what we all "know" to be true.
> ...



Resp:
The USAAC/USAAF 'headquarters going back to correct designations' certainly could explain the confusion/agitation. Thanks.


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## drgondog (May 29, 2020)

Dana Bell said:


> "
> 
> 
> One Mustang document that might be of interest here relates to the original P-51B and P-51C designations. The addition of the Merlin engine led to some aerodynamic concerns and minor repositioning of the wing. The P-51B was originally to be produced with the Merlin, but without the repositioned wing; the new wing was planned for the P-51C. Obviously, both models went into production with the repositioned wing, but I've never seen the original designations explained in any of the many Mustang books.
> ...



Quote from above -"Then there's my all-time favorite Wright Field inter-office memo on the P-51, dated 28 August 1942. It doesn't relate directly to designations, but I'll drop it in here in its entirety:

Left by Alec Burton together with the dope on the Griffin 61, this date. "Dutch" Kindleberger says the Merlin 28 is out for installation in the P-51, but they are going full blast on the Merlin 61. About all the re-design necessary is to move the wing forward 3 inches and down 1 inch; also, the nose will be dropped a little to give better visibility than in the P-51.

If the aerodynamics isn't ruined, looks like they might have a pretty good airplane."

*That 'package' was dropped to Colonels Chidlaw and Philips - Materiel Command on August 26, 1942 - approximately three months before first flight of XP-51B. It had the projected Performance @ GW 8350#, 2x20mm guns, no armor plate or radio with top speed of 445MPH @ 28K, service Ceiling 42K, ROC 3460fpm at 13K - all figure the P-51B-1 exceeded in AAF Flight tests May 1943 with production airplane at 8500#. *
Subject B/C - literally timing as XP-78 was renamed XP-51B - and subsequently when the Merlin Mustang contracts far exceeded Inglewood production capacity at a time when B-25s were still built at Inglewood.

The confusion (very brief) arose when the NA-102 P-51B-1 contract was executed in August 1942 before the XP-51B # 1 was complete and followed on 10-8 with AAF deciding to truncate the P-51A part of the AC-30479 to procure the NA-104 890 P-51B-5 (later extended to include more orders for the P-51B-10 and B-15 with the odd 90 from the P-51A contract added to the P-51B-15). The NA-104 contract was a revision of NA-99 AC-30479, executed on 10-20-42. While that contract change deviation was explored, the next order AC-3340 for NA-103 was executed for Dallas effectivity was executed 12 days earlier than N-104.

It was at that time that AAF and NAA would separate the nomenclature for the same airplane just as Republic did with the P-47G. With this delineation, the hinged canopy Merlin Mustang Made in Inglewood retained the P-51B designation as NA 102 and the NA-102 Mustang made in Dallas was now P-51C. When the six gun variant was proposed at the end of 1942 the contract negotiations for NA-106 (Inglewood) and NA-107 (Dallas) was executed in February 1943 for the P-51D and P-51E respectively. NAA at this time also negotiated the addition of a bubble canopy to replace the hinged canopy and the Top Drawing and Master lines were completed for the six gun wing and bubble canopy. The original 106-900002 P-51D/E Top Assembly Breakdown drawing was completed 3-15-43 and about that same time the AAF issued Material Change Order C-258 to design and install new Cockpit Enclosure, Sliding on two P-51D to be crafted from NA-102 spares and a complete existing P-51B-1 airframe. 

Contract negotiations were initiated to Produce NA-109 P-51D-5-NA in large scale production, cut NA-106 to two (P-51D-NA and D-1-NT), redistribute remaining (large) funding from the NA-106 to NA-103 and NA-104 and cancel NA-107/P-51E... and finally kill the name P-51E and rename all future P-51D Inglewood and Dallas ships of same designs and effectivities within blocks with "NA" and"NT". 

And that, children is all there is for today.

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## Navalwarrior (May 29, 2020)

drgondog said:


> Quote from above -"Then there's my all-time favorite Wright Field inter-office memo on the P-51, dated 28 August 1942. It doesn't relate directly to designations, but I'll drop it in here in its entirety:
> 
> Left by Alec Burton together with the dope on the Griffin 61, this date. "Dutch" Kindleberger says the Merlin 28 is out for installation in the P-51, but they are going full blast on the Merlin 61. About all the re-design necessary is to move the wing forward 3 inches and down 1 inch; also, the nose will be dropped a little to give better visibility than in the P-51.
> 
> ...


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## Navalwarrior (May 29, 2020)

Resp:
Well done, Professor!

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## Spitlead (May 30, 2020)

Just wanted to post a P-51 photo I took a couple of years ago. Enjoy!

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## MIflyer (May 30, 2020)

Ehhh, you can't fool me, that's the Hawk model.

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## Spitlead (May 30, 2020)

MIflyer said:


> Ehhh, you can't fool me, that's the Hawk model.
> View attachment 583366


Wow, cool model. Where on earth did you get the plans? Interesting that the camo pattern appears to be the same even though they are different airplanes. Both airplanes flew out of Bottisham.


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## MIflyer (May 30, 2020)

Oh, I scanned the instruction sheet and can provide the rest of it if anyone is interested.

That was a very high quality model for its time and the only decent 1/48 P-51D for well over a decade. Only big flaw I know of is that the belly radiator is way too narrow, so I presume the rear fuselage is too narrow as well. I still have an unbuilt example in my collection that uses those same decals. Attached is the original box art it was first issued with. They also issued a chrome plated version.

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## Navalwarrior (Jun 2, 2020)

drgondog said:


> Quote from above -"Then there's my all-time favorite Wright Field inter-office memo on the P-51, dated 28 August 1942. It doesn't relate directly to designations, but I'll drop it in here in its entirety:
> 
> Left by Alec Burton together with the dope on the Griffin 61, this date. "Dutch" Kindleberger says the Merlin 28 is out for installation in the P-51, but they are going full blast on the Merlin 61. About all the re-design necessary is to move the wing forward 3 inches and down 1 inch; also, the nose will be dropped a little to give better visibility than in the P-51.
> 
> ...


Resp:
I recently came across this statement in print inre to P-51B/C Mustnags; "Several pilots complained that they could no longer obtain their usual evasive action because of the addition of the dorsal fin and change in the rudder boost tab." Thoughts?


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## MIflyer (Jun 2, 2020)

I suppose those changes could have made it more difficult to do a slip at high speed. Crossing controls is a technique for making the nose of the airplane point in a different direction than its motion in order to throw off the enemy's attempt to lead the airplane - an approach mainly useful in avoiding ground fire, I think.


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## Spitlead (Jun 2, 2020)

MIflyer said:


> I suppose those changes could have made it more difficult to do a slip at high speed. Crossing controls is a technique for making the nose of the airplane point in a different direction than its motion in order to throw off the enemy's attempt to lead the airplane - an approach mainly useful in avoiding ground fire, I think.


Pilots would also "slip" the airplane to throw off an attackers aim from behind. Plus, "slipping" the airplane is also used on approach to land.

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## MIflyer (Jun 2, 2020)

I have mainly heard of the slipping technique for evasive action used to avoid ground fire - it is still used for that with jets. It could be used to avoid fire from an attacker on your tail but would also slow the airplane a bit. I have done forward slips many times to kill off excess airspeed on short final, although that is not possible with the airplane I currently fly. 

A slip points the nose of the airplane to one side of the flight path, making it appear to be heading off to one side when in fact it heading somewhere else and is attained by applying opposite rudder and aileron. I can see how that could throw off ground fire. A skid is where rudder is applied with not enough aileron, not opposite aileron, and I think would be less useful in evasive action. See attached figure.

The P-51D Training Manual says, "Because of the reverse-boost rudder tab and dorsal fin, the airplane has very good directional stability, with a directional change requiring definite pressure on the rudder pedal in proportion to the amount of yaw required." In other words you did not get yaw without pressure on the rudder pedals.

The Guenhagen book on the Mustang says that the dorsal fin and reverse boost tab were standardized on P-51D-10NA, and P-51D and P-51K Dallas production. So maybe P-51B/C pilots were complaining about the later D models being different from what they were used to?

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## Navalwarrior (Jun 2, 2020)

MIflyer said:


> I have mainly heard of the slipping technique for evasive action used to avoid ground fire - it is still used for that with jets. It could be used to avoid fire from an attacker on your tail but would also slow the airplane a bit. I have done forward slips many times to kill off excess airspeed on short final, although that is not possible with the airplane I currently fly.
> 
> A slip points the nose of the airplane to one side of the flight path, making it appear to be heading off to one side when in fact it heading somewhere else and is attained by applying opposite rudder and aileron. I can see how that could throw off ground fire. A skid is where rudder is applied with not enough aileron, not opposite aileron, and I think would be less useful in evasive action. See attached figure.
> 
> ...


Resp:
No, it specifically states P-51B/C. The way it was stated made it sound like they had flown P-51B or C models before the 'field modification adding the dorsal fin.' So they knew the difference. This may help explain few theater photos of dorsal fin B/Cs as this info of loss of air manuvers may have stopped any further field installment of the dorsal fin. P-51D-5 NA are a different matter.

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## MIflyer (Jun 2, 2020)

While I can't find it now, I had some info that said that the main reason for the dorsal fin installation on the B/C models was to reinforce the horizontal tail by tying it more strongly into the fuselage.

Do we know if any P-51B/C got the dorsal fin at the factory? At one time I was under the impression that the C model s, being later than the B's, all got the mod at the Dallas factory but subsequent photographic evidence refutes that.


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## Navalwarrior (Jun 2, 2020)

MIflyer said:


> While I can't find it now, I had some info that said that the main reason for the dorsal fin installation on the B/C models was to reinforce the horizontal tail by tying it more strongly into the fuselage.
> 
> Do we know if any P-51B/C got the dorsal fin at the factory? At one time I was under the impression that the C model s, being later than the B's, all got the mod at the Dallas factory but subsequent photographic evidence refutes that.
> View attachment 583689


Resp:
After seeing two stateside clean aluminum P-51Cs parked postwar with dorsal fins, I began to think that they were assembled at Dallas so configured. But you know what 'assume' means. I have only seen one b/w photo (ETO) with the dorsal fin (could have been a B or C), and it was posted on this blog. Also of note, two postwar models became F-51C that were retained with one Air National Guard Unit.


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## drgondog (Jun 3, 2020)

I will try to comment on all the discussions above about the DFF and Reverse Rudder Boost Tab.

First, The installation/retrofit of the DFF kit for P-51B/C/D applied to all Merlin Mustangs in AAF that left the factory without them.
Second, the P-51D-5-NA 44-13903 was factory equipped with DFF. P-51C-10-NT, second block under NA-111 was factory equipped with DFF. The end of the P-51C-10-NT was the beginning of the P-51D-5-NT. It, and all P-51s built in Dallas had factory DFF.
Third, the P-51D DFF was different from P-51B/C DFF - for obvious reasons related to top fuselage line. See dwg 104-25001 and 109-25001 if you are a tech nerd for the differences in B/C vs D/K designs. Both emerged Engineering in late March 1944
Fourth, I'm not sure that the reverse rudder boost tab installation did not also occur as early as P-51D-5 44-13903 but I trust Bob G on that subject.
Fifth, there were structural improvements in the form of doublers applied to fin and elevator spars to reinforce the empennage that went out as kits along with the Tech Order of April 8, 1944 for DFF and Reverse Rudder Boost Tab. See TO 01-60J-18 for details on the structural mods.

The issues causing empennage failures were multifold. One issue was applied rudder pressure combined with a rolling pullout, but to a lesser degree caused by applying too much rudder in a high speed dive to maintain a 'straight' line while aero forces tended to cause increasing yaw forces - all resisted by both the fin/rudder but also on the horizontal stab. Visualize the asymmetric forces caused by the prop vortex putting the stabs (vert and horiz) into a torqueing moment on the fuselage at the bulkhead/spar carry through structure. Then visualize the addition of rudder input to offset the yaw inputs experienced in dives and rolls while increasing/decreasing throttle. 

Over control of the rudder to damp yaw when high q loads present is the reason for the Reverse Rudder Boost Tab - to make the pilot have to apply more rudder Force than previously to decrease the yaw input.

The Dorsal Fin Fillet was to improve the flow characteristics passing the immersed empennage, including the prop vortex, It was an improvement but yaw issues associated with Merlin Mustangs weren't truly and effectively addressed until the P-51H increased fuselage length behind the cockpit and increased empennage area (including tall tail fuselage cap)

The reported 'loss of some maneuverability' in maneuvering combat was essentially true - it was a result of improving Yaw magnitude and damping for structural safety

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## drgondog (Jun 3, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> After seeing two stateside clean aluminum P-51Cs parked postwar with dorsal fins, I began to think that they were assembled at Dallas so configured. But you know what 'assume' means. I have only seen one b/w photo (ETO) with the dorsal fin (could have been a B or C), and it was posted on this blog. Also of note, two postwar models became F-51C that were retained with one Air National Guard Unit.



The DFF is mandated by FAA for all Merlin Mustangs. The existing warbirds are 90% total reconstructed airframes, many recovered with basically data plates and a few usable parts from the original. The ONLY P-51B/C block that emerged from Dallas with factory DFF was NA-111 P-51C-10-NT 44-10753 thru 44-11152. IIRC nne of those exist today.

Essentially, if you see a warbird, it is attired in colors and codes that suit the owner and has nothing in common from the represented airframe that was built in WWII.

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## drgondog (Jun 3, 2020)

MIflyer said:


> Ehhh, you can't fool me, that's the Hawk model.
> View attachment 583366


P-51D-5-NA (not -20 as shown on instructions) and the DFF in real life was a field installed kit. This airplane had field installed brown/green camo applied to the arriving NMF P-51D. To this day I do not know if any OD paint to correct specification was available in UK. If so, it was a UK based production. Every ship I have seen with paint applied in ETO over NMF, especially for the 357th FG, was an RAF Green/Brown hue type.

The bazooka type rocket launcher was an artistic touch. AFAIK only used in CBI before the P-51D-20 emerged with rocket stubs for HVAR type rockets.


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## Reluctant Poster (Jun 3, 2020)

drgondog said:


> I will try to comment on all the discussions above about the DFF and Reverse Rudder Boost Tab.
> 
> First, The installation/retrofit of the DFF kit for P-51B/C/D applied to all Merlin Mustangs in AAF that left the factory without them.
> Second, the P-51D-5-NA 44-13903 was factory equipped with DFF. P-51C-10-NT, second block under NA-111 was factory equipped with DFF. The end of the P-51C-10-NT was the beginning of the P-51D-5-NT. It, and all P-51s built in Dallas had factory DFF.
> ...


Rolls Royce added dorsal fins to two of the Mustangs they converted. They also tried extending the chord of the fin itself which was their preferred solution.

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## MIflyer (Jun 3, 2020)

Has anyone ever seen an F-6C that did not have the dorsal fin extension?


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## drgondog (Jun 3, 2020)

Reluctant Poster said:


> Rolls Royce added dorsal fins to two of the Mustangs they converted. They also tried extending the chord of the fin itself which was their preferred solution.



True that AL963 (only one) was modified with both a DFF and simply adding extra chord/fin area. The extra area/increased chord was, however, deemed too stable and sluggish to enter a roll. NAA experimented with adding a fin cap as well as a DFF and settled on the DFF w/o the tall tail.


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## drgondog (Jun 3, 2020)

MIflyer said:


> Has anyone ever seen an F-6C that did not have the dorsal fin extension?


There were many until the kits were deployed in the field - going to escort groups first in the ETO.

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## Navalwarrior (Jun 3, 2020)

drgondog said:


> There were many until the kits were deployed in the field - going to escort groups first in the ETO.


Resp:
We're there any Groups that refused the dorsal fin upgrade?


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## MIflyer (Jun 3, 2020)

Well, I think I answered my question and maybe yours too. This is a shot of an F-6C from late 1944.


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## drgondog (Jun 4, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> We're there any Groups that refused the dorsal fin upgrade?


No. not any more than a warbird owner disregards the NAA order to install/maintain the DFF.


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## drgondog (Jun 4, 2020)

MIflyer said:


> Well, I think I answered my question and maybe yours too. This is a shot of an F-6C from late 1944.
> View attachment 583808



Field applied to C-5 and C-10 that emerged from factory to ETO in spring/summer 1944. The one on the right was my father's original WR-B JANE in which he shot down two 109s on June 20th. When he got his first D, the C was recoded WR-V for the rest of the wat. Future 3 star Bob White, X-15 test pilot and 355th TFW Ops officer in Vietnam war was shot down by flak while strafing and survived a 'one swing' parachute jump in Feb 1945.

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## Peter Gunn (Jun 4, 2020)

drgondog said:


> Lol - well get your pencil ready, I already sent in a request to Osprey to insert an 'erata' sheet for some missed serial numbers and slightly 'off' dates.


To paraphrase a (possible) historical quote... "Say it ain't so Joe (Bill), say it ain't so..." 

On a side note, for me, one of the most beautiful WWII aircraft is a P-51B/C with DFF, second place is a P-51B/C with DFF and Malcomb Hood.

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## Navalwarrior (Jun 7, 2020)

Spitlead said:


> Pilots would also "slip" the airplane to throw off an attackers aim from behind. Plus, "slipping" the airplane is also used on approach to land.


Resp:
Luftwaffe pilot Heinz Bar said that the P-51 "was perhaps the most difficult of all Allied aircraft to meet in combat. It was fast, maneuverable, hard to see, and difficult to identify because it resembled the 109."


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## drgondog (Jun 8, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Luftwaffe pilot Heinz Bar said that the P-51 "was perhaps the most difficult of all Allied aircraft to meet in combat. It was fast, maneuverable, hard to see, and difficult to identify because it resembled the 109."


IMO Bar is in the handful of Aces in the discussion of 'best ever' - independent of his views about Beat Allied fighter. But he did fight against them all AFAIK.

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## Navalwarrior (Jun 8, 2020)

Peter Gunn said:


> To paraphrase a (possible) historical quote... "Say it ain't so Joe (Bill), say it ain't so..."
> 
> On a side note, for me, one of the most beautiful WWII aircraft is a P-51B/C with DFF, second place is a P-51B/C with DFF and Malcomb Hood.


Resp:
Naw, the Malcomb hood and the dorsal fin! A nice color photo hangs on my wall, Impatient Virgin!'


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## Peter Gunn (Jun 8, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Naw, the Malcomb hood and the dorsal fin! A nice color photo hangs on my wall, Impatient Virgin!'


You'll get no argument from me on that.

The only issue I have is that with the 'Hood' the extremely sleek lines are a tad interrupted, that long nose and the buttoned down look of the original canopy with the added DFF... Yeah Baby!

Now if I had to take her into combat, there's no doubt I'd want the Malcomb Hood equipped version.


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## Navalwarrior (Jun 8, 2020)

Peter Gunn said:


> You'll get no argument from me on that.
> 
> The only issue I have is that with the 'Hood' the extremely sleek lines are a tad interrupted, that long nose and the buttoned down look of the original canopy with the added DFF... Yeah Baby!
> 
> Now if I had to take her into combat, there's no doubt I'd want the Malcomb Hood equipped version.


Resp:
Also, I'm told . . . it is noiser w the Malcomb Hood. Honestly, I would have been happy to fly any of the variants. I served with an Army major (w/in last 10 hrs) who was a Helicopter pilot in 'nam that got to fly a P-51H (not sure of the details). He said it was a gas going almost strait up.
He was an interesting fellow, so much so, that he would never advance above Maj. He had to set his Huey down in the middle of a rice paddy while a crewman flushed the fuel line. While they were doing the work, he noticed several 'Charlies' come out from the tree line about 100 yards distant. He was carrying a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 Mag in a waist belt holster (had his dad mail it to him after he had a bad encounter with the Govt issue .38 revolver [ammo was faulty]), so took a 'bead' on the lead soldier (where the neck joins the torso) . . . and pressed the trigger. His followers quickly dispersed as their leader fell. At the same moment, the crew gave him the 'nod' that the Huey was ready to 'fly.'

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## johnbr (Jun 9, 2020)

* P-51C-5-NT 103-26311, 42-103757, Beguine, NX4845N, 1949* 
Beguine Archives - This Day in Aviation

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## johnbr (Jun 9, 2020)

One more.
Aerial Visuals - Airframe Dossier - North American P-51C Mustang, s/n 42-103757 USAAF, c/n 103-26311, c/r N4845N


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## Navalwarrior (Jun 9, 2020)

johnbr said:


> One more.
> Aerial Visuals - Airframe Dossier - North American P-51C Mustang, s/n 42-103757 USAAF, c/n 103-26311, c/r N4845N
> View attachment 584620
> View attachment 584621


Resp:
It crashed. I believe a total write off.


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 11, 2020)

aircraft photo North American P-51 H Mustang US Air Force | eBay

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## Wurger (Jun 11, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (Jun 11, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> aircraft photo North American P-51 H Mustang US Air Force | eBay
> 
> View attachment 584771


Resp:
I think you meant to type 'B' rather than 'H', unless you were referring to 'high.'


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## Airframes (Jun 11, 2020)

The 'H' is in the incorrect e-bay title.

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## Gnomey (Jun 13, 2020)

Good stuff!


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## Navalwarrior (Jun 14, 2020)

Gnomey said:


> Good stuff!


Resp:
Very good stuff! Much of what I have seen for the first time. Thanks!

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## Snautzer01 (Jun 14, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Very good stuff! Much of what I have seen for the first time. Thanks!


That is the point of all my eBay postings. . I have been doing this since the birth of the net. Some of these pictures can now be viewed in books.

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## Snautzer01 (Jun 19, 2020)

Very Large original USAAF fighter P-51 Mustang in field photograph 5th AF | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 19, 2020)

Original AAF WWII P-51 Mustang w Ground Crew Photo - 354th Fighter Group - 1944 | eBay

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## Wurger (Jun 19, 2020)




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## Gnomey (Jun 21, 2020)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 23, 2020)

385 - 35mm Duplicate Aircraft Slide - P-51A Mustang RAF AG345 Air-to-air 1940s | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 23, 2020)

384 - 35mm Duplicate Aircraft Slide - P-51D Mustang GUATEMALA FAG366 Date Unknw | eBay


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## Crimea_River (Jun 23, 2020)

Good ones.


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## Navalwarrior (Jun 23, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> 385 - 35mm Duplicate Aircraft Slide - P-51A Mustang RAF AG345 Air-to-air 1940s | eBay
> 
> View attachment 585902


Resp:
The fuselage roundels are the very early style, so I would think it is a Mustang MkI.


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## fubar57 (Jun 23, 2020)

*Orange Logic - The First RAF P-51 Mustang I, Serial Number AG345, in Flight*


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 23, 2020)

Original WWII Photo AAF 5th SQUADRON 52nd FIGHTER GROUP P-51 MUSTANG ITALY 105 | eBay

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## Gnomey (Jun 24, 2020)

Good shots!


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## barneybolac (Jun 25, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> ORIGINAL WWII US ARMY AIR FORCE P-51 FIGHTER SPARE PARTS NOSE ART PIN UP PHOTO | eBay
> 
> View attachment 555694








Plane is in this colour video.


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 25, 2020)

barneybolac said:


> View attachment 586100
> 
> 
> Plane is in this colour video.



Funny story about Spare Parts North American P-51 Mustang

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## drgondog (Jun 25, 2020)

AG345 was Mustang I, retained at NAA to be the 'mod pig' for RAF requested changes specific to RAF, to future NA-73/83 deliveries.

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## Navalwarrior (Jun 25, 2020)

drgondog said:


> AG345 was Mustang I, retained at NAA to be the 'mod pig' for RAF requested changes specific to RAF, to future NA-73/83 deliveries.


Reap:
The 'mods' which resulted in Mustang MkIA?


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## Gnomey (Jun 26, 2020)

Nice shots!


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## P-51-44-72028 (Jun 27, 2020)

P-51D-10-NA 44-14523 USAAF 385th FS/364th FG as 5E-x. 1945 USAAF 434th FS/479th FG as L2-K. “The Yakima Chief” piloted by Lt. Harold Stotts of Yakima WA. The 434th FS, 479th FG, 8th AF; was based at Wattisham Station, England during 1944/45. The 434th FS was commanded by Maj. Robin Olds and the 479th FG was commanded by Lt. Col. Kyle L. Riddle, Riddles Raiders. The 479th was the last group to enter the war in the ETO on 14 May 1944. These photos were posted in a Facebook group by Roderick Martinez, the son of Cpl. Ramon Martinez of Copeland, KS, the Armorer of “The Yakima Chief”. 

Image #1 L>R Crew Chief, Oakley; Pilot, Lt. Harold Stotts, and Armorer Cpl. Ramon Martinez. Cpl. Martinez was 1 of only 3 Mexican Americans in the 479th FG.

Image #2 L>R Cpl. Martinez and his best friend, Crew Chief, Sgt. Bill Davis.

Image #3 Wing Armorer’s of the 434th FS with Cpl. Martinez on the left.

Image #4 Maintenance being performed on “The Yakima Chief” with Clp. Martinez kneeling under the wing.


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## P-51-44-72028 (Jun 27, 2020)

F-51D-25, 44-73888, 39th FIS 18th FBG Seoul City AB (K-16) Korea 1951. Can anyone shed some light on the "cut open" tank under the wing? I have reached out to the 39th FS folks and have no response....yet! It is probably being used as a 'travel pod' but why wouldn't a 'door' be made for it? It has the squadron stenciled on it....and it may be painted 1/2 blue and 1/2 white, the squadron colors. I put it up on my facebook group and folks there are scratching their head too.


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## Navalwarrior (Jun 27, 2020)

P-51-44-72028 said:


> F-51D-25, 44-73888, 39th FIS 18th FBG Seoul City AB (K-16) Korea 1951. Can anyone shed some light on the "cut open" tank under the wing? I have reached out to the 39th FS folks and have no response....yet! It is probably being used as a 'travel pod' but why wouldn't a 'door' be made for it? It has the squadron stenciled on it....and it may be painted 1/2 blue and 1/2 white, the squadron colors. I put it up on my facebook group and folks there are scratching their head too.
> View attachment 586379


Reap:
The 'cut open' tank as you say, was likely used to transport none combat related gear. I know of one instance where a Spitifre used a similar tank to transport Beer! I think I like the beer transport configuration the best!


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 28, 2020)

Look at the edges of cut. No engineer would have done so. To re use it. No clamps. Bad case of ventilation i think.


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## Peter Gunn (Jun 29, 2020)

I feel like a total idiot for asking, but on many a Mustang you see, what gives with the massive oil streak starting at about the rear of the engine cowling and arching back down the fuselage?

I know I know, I should know that, I go to penalty box two minutes... feel shame.


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## Crimea_River (Jun 29, 2020)

It's a vent for an oil breather I believe.

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## fubar57 (Jul 2, 2020)

P-51-44-72028 said:


> F-51D-25, 44-73888, 39th FIS 18th FBG Seoul City AB (K-16) Korea 1951. Can anyone shed some light on the "cut open" tank under the wing? I have reached out to the 39th FS folks and have no response....yet! It is probably being used as a 'travel pod' but why wouldn't a 'door' be made for it? It has the squadron stenciled on it....and it may be painted 1/2 blue and 1/2 white, the squadron colors. I put it up on my facebook group and folks there are scratching their head too.
> View attachment 586379


In the book, "F-51 Units of the Korean War" by Warren Thompson, there is the same photo. The caption says, "....It was photographed in early 1952 carrying drop tanks that had been converted into cargo pods....lost over the target area on 27 April 1952 - eyewitness reports stated that the aeroplane exploded in mid air after being hit by AAA. Its pilot, 1Lt. William Sankey perished...."

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 3, 2020)

492 - Original B&W 616 Aircraft Negative - P-51H Mustang 44-64302 OHIO ANG 1950s | eBay

P-51H-5-NA


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 3, 2020)

488 - Original B&W 616 Aircraft Negative - F-51H Mustang 44-64335 MASS ANG 1954 | eBay

P-51H-5-NA 44-64335 to 101st FIS, Massachusetts ANG in winter of 1951.


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 3, 2020)

489 - Original B&W 616 Aircraft Negative - P-51D Mustang 44-73578 SD ANG - 1950s | eBay

P-51D-25-NA


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## Wurger (Jul 3, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (Jul 3, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> 492 - Original B&W 616 Aircraft Negative - P-51H Mustang 44-64302 OHIO ANG 1950s | eBay
> 
> P-51H-5-NA
> 
> View attachment 586951


Resp:
Nice. To me, the 'H' model just doesn't have the lines as the 'D/K' models. Too bad it didn't get to do battle.

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 4, 2020)

P-51 In Foggia, Italy Receiving Repairs, 1944 | eBay


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## Wurger (Jul 4, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (Jul 4, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> P-51 In Foggia, Italy Receiving Repairs, 1944 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 587016
> 
> ...


Resp: 
Nice. Negative was reversed for photo.


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## Gnomey (Jul 5, 2020)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 6, 2020)

Original WWII Snapshot Photo - P-51 With Nose Art at 42nd Air Depot | eBay


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## Wurger (Jul 6, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (Jul 6, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Original WWII Snapshot Photo - P-51 With Nose Art at 42nd Air Depot | eBay
> 
> View attachment 587269


Resp:
'Lady Katherine,' just SW of Oxford of 9th AF?


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## Airframes (Jul 6, 2020)

Nose markings look like 78th FG, 8th USAAF, based at Duxford, south of Cambridge.

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## Navalwarrior (Jul 6, 2020)

Airframes said:


> Nose markings look like 78th FG, 8th USAAF, based at Duxford, south of Cambridge.


Resp:
Yes. When I googled 42nd Air Depot it listed it as 9th AF. If so, what was a 78th FG Mustang doing there?


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## Airframes (Jul 6, 2020)

If it *is* 78th FG, and it probably is, then as it's at an Air Depot, it could be there for any number of reasons - storage, transfer, awaiting or having just had major work done, disposal etc etc.
It may just be visiting, or may have even landed there due to problems, and be awaiting collection - who knows ?


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## fubar57 (Jul 6, 2020)

Repairs and re-assignments? Late in war the 42nd was involved in shipping Luftwaffe War prizes to the USA

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## Peter Gunn (Jul 7, 2020)

The left inner gear door looks to be only about halfway down, perhaps it just arrived or was recently run up and the hydraulic pressure hasn't fully come down?

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## Airframes (Jul 7, 2020)

Yep. The inner doors were closed after the gear extended. With hydraulic bleed-off, they would gradually sag open, but not always fully open.

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## Simon Thomas (Jul 8, 2020)

This photo was taken in Wodonga, Victoria around 1984.
I am 98% sure that the serial number on the side was A68-583
It would have been shipped to Bakersfield California around 1985.
Any idea where it is now?


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## Navalwarrior (Jul 8, 2020)

Simon Thomas said:


> This photo was taken in Wodonga, Victoria around 1984.
> I am 98% sure that the serial number on the side was A68-583
> It would have been shipped to Bakersfield California around 1985.
> Any idea where it is now?
> View attachment 587471


Resp:
Couldn't verify its location, but google brought up this; a P-51K flown by RAAF.


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 9, 2020)

*WWII photo- P 51 Mustang Fighter plane Nose Art w/ Kill- JACKIE* | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 9, 2020)

*WWII photo- 14th AF- P 51 Chinese-American Fighter planes CHIHKIANG China * | eBay

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## Wurger (Jul 9, 2020)




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## johnbr (Jul 12, 2020)

mike furline Tailhook Topics: Seahorse

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## Wurger (Jul 12, 2020)




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## Navalwarrior (Jul 12, 2020)

johnbr said:


> mike furline
> View attachment 587921
> View attachment 587922
> View attachment 587923
> View attachment 587924


Resp:
Did any excessive stress show up in the tail structure during landing tests?


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## johnbr (Jul 12, 2020)

The modifications included:

"Fin Fillet Extension" which enhanced low-speed operation.
Tail hook (for obvious reasons)
Catapult hook
High pressure tires
Higher pressure in the shock absorbers
Reinforced airframeThe modified P-51D started testing in September of 1944 under test pilot Robert Elder. The tests were carried out at Mustin Field in Phillidelphia on a modified runway fitted with a catapult and arresting cables. Throughout September 1944 to October 1944, 150 launches and recoveries were made on this modified runway. One big concern was that the aircraft would need to land around 90mph and the stall speed was 82mph, not much of a margin.In late October 1944 the next stage of testing started, carrier landings/launches at sea. Lt. Elder made all the carrier landings at 85mph and was pleased with its handling characteristics, but there were issues:

Stall speed margin was extremely low, too low for safety
Rudder control at low speed and high angles of attack was inadequate
Landing attitude had to be very carefully controlled to avoid airframe damage
Go-arounds required slow throttle advancement. The extreme power of the Packard/Merlin engine meant that a high-power fast throttle advancement could put the aircraft into a roll or snap-roll. At low speeds this would prove a fatal mistake.

Only 25 launches/recoveries were made in the suitability trials and Lt. Elder did not believe that the Mustang had a place in carrier operations.
It was a moot point anyway. By early 1945 Okinawa and Iwo Jima were won by the allied forces. Each island had airfields that were taken over and provided a close base of operations for aerial attacks on Japan. In August 1945 Japan announced its surrender and it was official September 2, 1945. The P-51 wasn't required to be used from a naval platform anymore.
The project wasn't forgotten though. North American presented the NAA-133 based on the P-51H, which was a carrier operations "Mustang". It didn't go any further than the design stage though. In 1947 a P-51H was acquired to test new catapult equipment. Either way the war was over by that time and we didn't have to put any more effort into modifying the aircraft for carrier operations.
Mustang! - Documents

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 13, 2020)

Jersey Bounce

Original WWII Snapshot Photo - P-51's With Nose Art, P-80 Project | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 14, 2020)

*WWII photo-1265th ECB- P 51 Mustang ACE PILOT Fighter plane w/ 19 KILLS- 4th FG | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 14, 2020)

Original Soldiers Photo Of P51 Mustang | eBay


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## Navalwarrior (Jul 14, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> *WWII photo-1265th ECB- P 51 Mustang ACE PILOT Fighter plane w/ 19 KILLS- 4th FG | eBay
> 
> View attachment 588026


Reps:
4th FG 336 SQ, some of those 19 kills were either ground kills . . or this Mustang was flown by more than one pilot.


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 16, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Reps:
> 4th FG 336 SQ, some of those 19 kills were either ground kills . . or this Mustang was flown by more than one pilot.


Why?


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## Navalwarrior (Jul 16, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Why?


Resp:
That's right, the 4th FG flew Spitfires and P-47s before switching to P-51s.


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## fubar57 (Jul 16, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> That's right, the 4th FG flew Spitfires and P-47s before switching to P-51s.


RESP: ?


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## Peter Gunn (Jul 16, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> RESP: ?


E C T... Find out what it means to me...

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 16, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> RESP: ?


I think response.


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## fubar57 (Jul 16, 2020)

I was querying his RESP: to you


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## ODonovan (Jul 16, 2020)

Special delivery! 





This is 44-15080. In the photo, it had JUST been assigned to its new pilot, Captain Amos H. "Hess" Bomberger, 361st FG, 356th FG, at Martlesham Heath, England. Hess said he painted the prop spinner himself, by hand, but hadn't quite finished when this shot was taken. It would soon be known as "Carolyn's Vergeltungswaffe" (Carolyn being his girlfriend at the time), as shown in this picture.




MUCH later, Hess would fly another Mustang, dressed up as his wartime ride, on the airshow circuit. That's where I met him, at the Sun 'n' Fun Fly-In (Lakeland, FL), in the mid '80s.




Notably, "Carolyn's" was missing from the replica aircraft's name, as Hess' relationship with the lady the Mustang was named after did not last after the war. As you can see, Hess' plane was one of those which had the vertical tail on the Q, in the squadron code. Some did and some didn't. And, here is the gentleman in question, some 44 years after the first picture I posted was taken.




1944 to 1988




I believe Hess is still alive. Last I heard, he was living in Georgia. He may have gone into a nursing care facility. I know his house was put up for sale and the furnishings went in an estate auction. I wish I would've known about it in advance, as his USAAF pilot ring was one of the things which was sold.








-Irish

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## Gnomey (Jul 21, 2020)

Good shots!


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## P-51-44-72028 (Jul 27, 2020)

Peter Gunn said:


> I feel like a total idiot for asking, but on many a Mustang you see, what gives with the massive oil streak starting at about the rear of the engine cowling and arching back down the fuselage?
> 
> I know I know, I should know that, I go to penalty box two minutes... feel shame.


It's an engine breather....much like the pre-60's auto engines had.....they vented to the outside. In the P-51 the termination of the vent was flush with the skin, so when an engine was tired and had "blow by" it messed up the side of the fuselage. Look closely at some photos and see when clever crew chiefs extended the pipe by about 2-3" and then the 'blowby' wouldn't streak the side of the fuselage. In the attached photo you can see the shadow from the extended pipe.

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 3, 2020)

872 - Original B&W 616 Aircraft Negative - P-51H Mustang 44-64256 110th ABG '40s | eBay


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## Wurger (Aug 3, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Aug 7, 2020)

Vintage photo USAAF Aircraft Plane 165th Fighter Squadron P-51 Mustang Airfield | eBay


Became a Reno Racer N2116 see here: Aerial Visuals - Airframe Dossier - North American P-51D-30-NA Mustang, s/n 44-74850 USAAF, c/n 122-41390, c/r N2116 {1} 44-74850


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## Wurger (Aug 7, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Aug 8, 2020)

WWII RAAF CAC Mustang Fighter - Mk,22 - Excellent Photo! | eBay

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## P-51-44-72028 (Aug 8, 2020)

Peter Gunn said:


> I feel like a total idiot for asking, but on many a Mustang you see, what gives with the massive oil streak starting at about the rear of the engine cowling and arching back down the fuselage?
> 
> I know I know, I should know that, I go to penalty box two minutes... feel shame.


It's an engine ventilation exit....internal pressure inside an engine must be vented to the outside....until the PVC valve in the 60's, all auto engines vented to the outside. The P-51 vents out where you noted....however some folks extended the exit a little so the blowby wouldn't streak the side of the fuselage. You can see in the photo that the nearest plane has the extension (see shadow) and the second one does not.


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 10, 2020)

Original WWII Snapshot Photo - P-51 With Nose Art at Ausbach, Germany | eBay

Baugher; 44-73105 (MSN 122-39564) to Italian AF as MM4293

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## Wurger (Aug 10, 2020)




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## P-51-44-72028 (Aug 10, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Original WWII Snapshot Photo - P-51 With Nose Art at Ausbach, Germany | eBay
> 
> Baugher; 44-73105 (MSN 122-39564) to Italian AF as MM4293
> 
> View attachment 591519


P-51D-25-NA 44-73105 1946 USAAF 42nd DRS, Transferred to the Italian AF as 4293. It looks like it's carrying the nose markings of the 359th FG, maybe the 486th FS? Also you can see a previous fuselage marking MO*??


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## CATCH 22 (Aug 10, 2020)

P-51-44-72028 said:


> P-51D-25-NA 44-73105 1946 USAAF 42nd DRS, Transferred to the Italian AF as 4293. It looks like it's carrying the nose markings of the 359th FG, maybe the 486th FS? Also you can see a previous fuselage marking MO*??


Didn't 486-th FS. belong to 352-nd FG.?
IMHO the nose markings are those of the *20-th FG*. The old code still visible is *MC-H*. MC is the coding of the *79-th FS*.
Check e.g. MC-J for comparison:




MC-H was called *"Short Snorter":*




Source for the above photos: 20th Fighter Group – Little Friends – US 8th Army Air Force Fighter Command

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## P-51-44-72028 (Aug 10, 2020)

CATCH 22 said:


> Didn't 486-th FS. belong to 352-nd FG.?
> IMHO the nose markings are those of the *20-th FG*. The old code still visible is *MC-H*. MC is the coding of the *79-th FS*.
> Check e.g. MC-J for comparison:
> View attachment 591542
> ...


Excellent.....thanks for the information.


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## Wayne Little (Aug 11, 2020)

Great pics.


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## Gnomey (Aug 15, 2020)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 29, 2020)

1940s USAAF Mechanics Japan Air Base airplane Photo #10 row of RAF fighters | eBay
1940s USAAF Mechanics Japan Air Base airplane Photo #9 RAF fighter | eBay

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## macharvard (Aug 29, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> 1940s USAAF Mechanics Japan Air Base airplane Photo #10 row of RAF fighters | eBay
> 1940s USAAF Mechanics Japan Air Base airplane Photo #9 RAF fighter | eBay
> 
> View attachment 593150
> ...


These ar RAAF Mustangs - see A68 identifier on both photos. A recent photo (#749) shows A68-187, a photo reconnaissance bird.

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 1, 2020)

Although I have no photo to share, my wife and I often visit several small airports. In doing so, we saw a beautiful P-51D painted in Don Gentile's stateside markings (red nose, followed by small red and white checkering pattern, w D-Day markings). Most likely relocating north due to the incoming Hurricane. Made my day!

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 3, 2020)

1940s WWII USAAF North American P-51 Mustang fighter airplane in flight Photo | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 3, 2020)

1940s WWII USA North American P-51 Mustang fighter airplane Photo | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 3, 2020)

1940s WWII USA Fighter airplane in flight Photo | eBay

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## Navalwarrior (Sep 3, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> 1940s WWII USAAF North American P-51 Mustang fighter airplane in flight Photo | eBay
> 
> View attachment 593668


Resp:
Very nice! Likely an F-6A, since nearly all were fitted w two cameras.


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## Wurger (Sep 3, 2020)




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## ColFord (Sep 3, 2020)

NA-91 North American P-51 Mustang FD533 41-37435. Delivered at NAA 9 Sept 42. Departed USA 29 Sept 42. Arrived Lockheed AC Abbotsinch UK for reassembly and mods 31 Dec 1942. 51 Maintenance Unit 16 Mar 1943. Issued to No.268 Squadron RAF 26 Jun 1943 - part of initial batch of Mustang Mk.IA for Squadron re-equipment from Mustang Mk.I. Lost on combat operations - Ranger - near Rouen on 26 September 1943, shot down by FW-190 of 1/JG2 flown by Uffz Wilhelm Peukert. RAF pilot Flight Sargeant Walter "Wally" Mell RAFVR, Killed in Action, buried at St. Sever Cemetary Extension, Rouen Seine-Maritime, France. 

Lest We Forget.


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 5, 2020)

Rare WW2 Original Photo Flying Tigers P-51 Mustangs | eBay

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## Wurger (Sep 5, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Sep 7, 2020)

WWII AIRCRAFT P-51 MUSTANG 8x10 SILVER HALIDE PHOTO PRINT | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 7, 2020)

533 - Original B&W 616 Aircraft Negative - P-51H Mustang 44-64200 64th FIS 1940s | eBay

Baugher: P-51H-5-NA Mustang


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## Wurger (Sep 8, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Sep 9, 2020)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ph...312002?hash=item548a67cf82:g:mVUAAOSwxs1fV1vY

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## Wurger (Sep 9, 2020)




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## fubar57 (Sep 10, 2020)

Cool. I never liked the looks of the "H" model

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 11, 2020)

WWII 1944 USAAF Bates Field, AL, P-51-C Mustang Airplane Photo Fuel truck | eBay

Baugher: P-51C-5-NT, 42-103398 to RFC at Walnut Ridge Oct 25, 1945


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 11, 2020)

WWII 1944 USAAF Bates Field, Mobile P-51-C Mustang fighter Airplane Photo gun up | eBay
WWII 1944 USAAF Bates Field, Mobile P-51-C Mustang fighter Airplane Photo | eBay

Baugher: P-51C-10-NT, 42-103969 to RFC at Toledo, OH sep 30, 1945

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## Wurger (Sep 11, 2020)




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## Gnomey (Sep 12, 2020)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 17, 2020)

*WWII photo-P 51 Mustang Fighter plane w/ D-DAY STRIPES & 390th BG B 17 Bombers* | eBay

Righ thand P-51 42-106857 (486th FS, 352nd FG) crashed from unknown cause near Budapest, Hungary Jul 2, 1944. MACR 6697 and 8528.
Pilot was last seen chasing some Bf 109s and was heard to say he was going down. Never seen or heard from again.

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 17, 2020)

*WWII photo- US AAF Ground Crew work on their P 51 Mustang Fighter plane * | eBay


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## Wurger (Sep 17, 2020)




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## Peter Gunn (Sep 17, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> Cool. I never liked the looks of the "H" model


I agree, performance wise I'd take it in a heartbeat but you're right, the looks leave somewhat to be desired.


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 18, 2020)

I solved a bit of a puzzle. From Spitfires & Yellow Tail Mustangs: The U.S. 52nd Fighter Group in WWII Tom Ivie, Paul Ludwig








*WWII photo- P 51 Mustang Fighter plane Nose Art - ID'D Pilot- JERSEY HORSE?* | eBay

It was coded WD*






and from ealier eBay North American P-51 Mustang

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## Wurger (Sep 18, 2020)




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## Gnomey (Sep 19, 2020)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 21, 2020)

Rare Antique American World War II P-51 Mustang "Smokey" Snapshot Photo US! WWII | eBay

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## Wurger (Sep 21, 2020)




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## fubar57 (Sep 23, 2020)

Don't see many photos of aircraft with occupation markings


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## Wurger (Sep 23, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 2, 2020)

WW2 USAAF P-51 Mustang Fighter Escort Photo In Flight 2106942 4.5x5.75" C177 | eBay

P-51B-15-NA 42-106942 Assigned to 375FS, 361FG, 8AF USAAF. Transferred to 374FS, 361FG, 8AF USAAF. Failed to Return (FTR) dive bombing mission to Amiens low level down a railtrack hit in coolant system crashed Rosieres en-Santerre A/D 12-Aug-44 Lt Clarence E Zieske Killed in Action (KIA) MACR 7619


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 2, 2020)

Frihedsmuseets fotoarkiv - Nationalmuseets Samlinger Online


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 2, 2020)

Frihedsmuseets fotoarkiv - Nationalmuseets Samlinger Online

Allied planes at Kastrup Airport after liberation. Right plane: Mustang. Left plane: Spitfire. Probably used by Wing Commander Kaj Birksted and the Norwegian pilot Erik Håbjørn, respectively, in connection with visits to their respective home countries.

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## Wurger (Oct 2, 2020)




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## Crimea_River (Oct 2, 2020)

Nice.


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 21, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> WWI-WWII Aircraft Airplane Photograph Lot, RCAF Merlin, Northrup A-17 (P1) | eBay
> 
> Baugher:
> 43-6877 (355th FS, 354th FG, 9th AF) ground looped at RAF Lashenden, Kent, England May 27, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft damaged but repaired and converted to 2-seater by 461st Service Squadron May 1944 and used by 354th FG on Jul 4, 1944 used to fly General Eisenhower over front lines, thereafter being named *The Stars Look Down*.
> ...



Page 98 Unit History - 358th Fighter Group - Fold3
Baugher:
43-6877 (355th FS, 354th FG, 9th AF) ground looped at RAF Lashenden, Kent, England May 27, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft damaged but repaired and converted to 2-seater by 461st Service Squadron May 1944 and used by 354th FG on Jul 4, 1944 used to fly General Eisenhower over front lines, thereafter being named *The Stars Look Down*.

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## Wurger (Oct 21, 2020)




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## Gnomey (Oct 27, 2020)

Nice shots!


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## MIflyer (Oct 30, 2020)

Cover of the latest EAA Sport Aviation magazine. Bee-You-Tea-Full shot of a P-51H.
Yes, there is a full article about it, too.

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## Snautzer01 (Oct 31, 2020)

P-51 Plane 31st Fighter Group Italy Original Large WWII Photo | eBay

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## Crimea_River (Oct 31, 2020)

Interesting colour study on the bottom.

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## Wurger (Oct 31, 2020)




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## Gnomey (Nov 2, 2020)

Nice shots!


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## MIflyer (Nov 2, 2020)

Another great shot of that 51H.

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## Wurger (Nov 2, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Nov 10, 2020)

P-51 Mustang - Eight Kills painted on Canopy | eBay

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## Peter Gunn (Nov 10, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> P-51 Mustang - Eight Kills painted on Canopy | eBay
> 
> View attachment 601425
> 
> ...


Interesting type on the back, could this be a post war shot? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Regensburg in Germany?


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## Snautzer01 (Nov 10, 2020)

Peter Gunn said:


> Interesting type on the back, could this be a post war shot? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Regensburg in Germany?


Regenburg Germany indeed.


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## Snautzer01 (Nov 14, 2020)

Photograph North American P-51 " Gloria Ann 2nd " | eBay


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## Wurger (Nov 14, 2020)




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## jgreiner (Nov 14, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> P-51 Mustang - Eight Kills painted on Canopy | eBay
> 
> View attachment 601425
> 
> ...


 
357th Fighter Group........C5 (364th FS) fuselage codes? Regensburg is interesting though as the 357th was in Neubiberg Germany post-war, not Regensberg.


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## Snautzer01 (Nov 23, 2020)

WW2 RAF Photograph Album - Italy/Greece 1944/45 | eBay

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## Wurger (Nov 23, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Nov 28, 2020)

AVIATION PHOTO AVION P-51 MUSTANG I | eBay

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## Wurger (Nov 28, 2020)




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## Gnomey (Nov 30, 2020)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 5, 2020)

AVIATION PHOTO AVION P-51D MUSTANG | eBay

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## Wurger (Dec 5, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Dec 6, 2020)

Vintage Original Photo WW2 8X10 US air force fighter plane F-82 | eBay

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## Wurger (Dec 6, 2020)




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## Snautzer01 (Dec 7, 2020)

RARE Original WWII Photo Marionette P-51 Mustang Fighter 305th Bomb Squadron | eBay

Baugher: 43-12152 (355th FS, 354th FG, 9th AF) crashed from unknown cause on Isle of Jersey off Normandy, France Feb 8, 1944. MACR 2337. Pilot bailed out and became POW.

GQ-K

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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2020)




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## Peter Gunn (Dec 8, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> AVIATION PHOTO AVION P-51 MUSTANG I | eBay
> 
> View attachment 603291


Why do I get a certain sense of some "dicking around" going on in this photo?


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 13, 2020)

Original WW2 Flying Tigers P-51 Mustang Photos CBI Theatre Rare Pictures | eBay

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## MIflyer (Dec 13, 2020)

One of my favorite Mustang shots. Training in 1951. They have their flaps down. They must have been in formation with a T-6 to get that shot.





View attachment 604888

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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2020)




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## Gnomey (Dec 16, 2020)

Nice shots!


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## jgreiner (Dec 16, 2020)

.


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 17, 2020)

If you want to play along, 
1 only eBay or other auction sites.
2 first 2 pics belong in nose art section. 
3 no coloured in pictures (seems to be getting popular lately)
4 mention specifics like plane name, werknumber etc when not metioned in the auction link.
5 always put in the auction link. Even if or when the info there is obviously wrong.


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## MIflyer (Dec 17, 2020)

I thought the entire purpose of this website was to post information of interest to the subject?

In the future, in the unlikely event I have a picture I wish to post I will post it in its own separate thread and if someone wants to move it, they can.

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## Snautzer01 (Dec 17, 2020)

Original WW2 Type-1 USMC IWO JIMA Photo MARINE PILOT and row of P-51 MUSTANG | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 17, 2020)

Original WW2 Type-1 USMC Marine Corps IWO JIMA Vintage Photo / P-51 MUSTANG | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 17, 2020)

Original WW2 Type-1 USMC Marine Corps IWO JIMA Photo P-51 MUSTANG Crash Landing | eBay

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## jgreiner (Dec 17, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> If you want to play along,
> 1 only eBay or other auction sites.
> 2 first 2 pics belong in nose art section.
> 3 no coloured in pictures (seems to be getting popular lately)
> ...



Oh, I didn't know there were strict rules. Could you show me where they're posted so I can follow them from now on? 
As for colored in pics, I really enjoy the one you posted on the first page of this thread. Thanks!
I've removed my previous egregious post.


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 18, 2020)

*WWII photo- US Airman posed w/ P 51 Mustang Fighter plane on Air Base* | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 18, 2020)

*WWII photo- P 51 Mustang Fighter plane Tail No. (?? 3758) (IX) w/ Pilot* | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 18, 2020)

*WWII photo- P 51 Mustang Fighter planes on Tarmac w/ Nose Art - SANDY II* | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 18, 2020)

P51 Mustang Photographs | eBay


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## Wurger (Dec 18, 2020)




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## Crimea_River (Dec 18, 2020)

jgreiner said:


> Oh, I didn't know there were strict rules. Could you show me where they're posted so I can follow them from now on?
> As for colored in pics, I really enjoy the one you posted on the first page of this thread. Thanks!
> I've removed my previous egregious post.



Can you cut Snautzer some slack? This is HIS thread the purpose of which is to post links to EBay photos, not photos from people's collections. He is obviously very thorough and spends a lot of time doing this, not only for Mustangs but for many aircraft types. If you want to post your own pics of P-51's there's nothing stopping you from starting your own thread.

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## jgreiner (Dec 18, 2020)

Crimea_River said:


> Can you cut Snautzer some slack? This is HIS thread the purpose of which is to post links to EBay photos, not photos from people's collections. He is obviously very thorough and spends a lot of time doing this, not only for Mustangs but for many aircraft types. If you want to post your own pics of P-51's there's nothing stopping you from starting your own thread.



Can you cut me some slack too? I don't think I deserved to be treated like a plebe for wanting to join "his show". Excuse the hell out of me for not realizing there are no posted rules on this picture thread and for thinking I should just start another P-51 pictures thread. Gosh. Silly me. And thanks so much for being his spokesman!


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## Crimea_River (Dec 18, 2020)

You're very welcome. The OP didn't deserve your sarcastic retort either so, no, I won't cut you some slack.

Back to you Snautzer.

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## jgreiner (Dec 18, 2020)

Crimea_River said:


> You're very welcome. The OP didn't deserve your sarcastic retort either so, no, I won't cut you some slack.
> 
> Back to you Snautzer.



You know, ALL I was attempting to do was to contribute some pictures. Guess I won't make that fatal mistake again and violate "rules" that aren't posted anywhere.
Thanks for your valuable contribution.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 18, 2020)

Lets take it easy children.


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 19, 2020)

Dad!!?? is that you?? Mom asks when the alimony is coming.

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## Snautzer01 (Jan 5, 2021)

Org. Photo: US Mechanics w/ P-51 Fighter Plane w/ D-Day Markings & Mission Kills | eBay

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## Snautzer01 (Jan 5, 2021)

Org. Photo: US Airman Posed by Lined Up P-51 Fighter Planes w/ Drop Tanks!!! | eBay

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## Airframes (Jan 5, 2021)

That D-Day P-51 looks remarkably like a Spitfire PR.XI !!!!

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## Snautzer01 (Jan 5, 2021)

It does now doesnt it?

Supermarine Spitfire


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## Capt. Vick (Jan 5, 2021)

It's the camo Terry, the camo!


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 11, 2021)

WW2 Korea P-51 Nose art name airplane aviation WWII photo #126 | eBay

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## Wurger (Jan 11, 2021)




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## Navalwarrior (Jan 11, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo: US Mechanics w/ P-51 Fighter Plane w/ D-Day Markings & Mission Kills | eBay
> 
> View attachment 607623


Resp:
This looks like a Spirtfire, perhaps a photo recon used by the USAAF


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## Navalwarrior (Jan 11, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo: US Airman Posed by Lined Up P-51 Fighter Planes w/ Drop Tanks!!! | eBay
> 
> View attachment 607624


Resp:
Pacific Theater of CBI?


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## Dana Bell (Jan 11, 2021)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Pacific Theater of CBI?



The three broad wing stripes were a feature of AAF aircraft in the Philippines. (Some aircraft wore only one or two stripes on each wing - I've never found the orders explaining the variations.)

Cheers,


Dana

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## Snautzer01 (Jan 12, 2021)

WWII US GI Photo North American P-51 Mustang Marked "K LC" w/ Tail Number 414996 | eBay

Baugher: North American P-51D-15-NA 44-14996 (77th FS, 20th FG, 8th AF) in landing accident at RAF Kings Cliffe, Cambridgeshire, England Feb 6, 1945.Pilot survived, aircraft badly damaged, unknown if repaired.


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## Navalwarrior (Jan 13, 2021)

Dana Bell said:


> The three broad wing stripes were a feature of AAF aircraft in the Philippines. (Some aircraft wore only one or two stripes on each wing - I've never found the orders explaining the variations.)
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...


Resp:
Thanks much.


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 19, 2021)

Photograph 1944 WW2 China CBI Kunming P-51C Mustang Arrives 907th Eng HQ Photo | eBay

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## Wurger (Jan 19, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Jan 24, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang Pilot in Combat with 2 Kills - 357th F.G. ETO ~ Excellent | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 24, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang in Combat - 107th Tac Recon Squadron ~ Excellent | eBay

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## Wurger (Jan 24, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Jan 25, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang (44-13550) 380th F.S. ~ Original 8x10 Print | eBay

P-51D-5-NA 44-13550 The Shillelagh 353rd FS, 354th FG, 9th AF) in landing accident at Orconte airfield A-66 Champagne, Ardenne, France Sep 19, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft badly damaged, unknown if repaired


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 25, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang (44-15527) "Chi Lassie" 357th F.G. POW ~ Original Print | eBay

44-15527 (362nd FS, 357th FG) shot down by Fw 190A-8 flown by Ofw. Willi Reschke of JG 301/9 Jan 14, 1945. MACR 11871. Pilot bailed out and became POW.


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 25, 2021)

North American P-51D-15-NA 44-15271 (356th FG, 359th FS, 8th AF) hit by AAA at Hechingen, Germany and crashed during wheels-up belly landing 1 km NW of Boeringen, SE of Obendorf, Germany Feb 25,1945. MACR 12739. Pilot survived and became POW.
Pilot: Wayne E Rhynard nickname Fox Wayne E Rhynard | American Air Museum in Britain

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## Wurger (Jan 25, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Jan 27, 2021)

1943 North American XP-51 Mustang Fighter WWII Airplane Photo Langley Aviation | eBay

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## Navalwarrior (Jan 27, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> *PHOTO* P-51 Mustang in Combat - 107th Tac Recon Squadron ~ Excellent | eBay
> 
> View attachment 609997
> 
> ...


Reps:
Are those wing pylons? A propeller tip and quality of the photo makes it had to tell. If so, it is an F6B. Thoughts?


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## mjfur (Jan 27, 2021)

Navalwarrior said:


> Reps:
> Are those wing pylons? A propeller tip and quality of the photo makes it had to tell. If so, it is an F6B. Thoughts?



It may be 43-6053 http://joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1943_2.html 
*6053 converted to F-6C. (67th TRG, 107th TRS) shot down by Bf 109G-6 4 mi E of St Hilaire du Harcouet, France Jul 18, 1944. MACR 7051. Fate of pilot unknown*

*https://catalog.archives.gov/id/91024164*


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## Navalwarrior (Jan 28, 2021)

mjfur said:


> It may be 43-6053 http://joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1943_2.html
> *6053 converted to F-6C. (67th TRG, 107th TRS) shot down by Bf 109G-6 4 mi E of St Hilaire du Harcouet, France Jul 18, 1944. MACR 7051. Fate of pilot unknown*
> 
> *https://catalog.archives.gov/id/91024164*


The F-6C were Merlin engined photo recon Mustangs. Are you saying this Mustang was configured to B/C status?


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## ColFord (Jan 28, 2021)

I would say the Baugher entry is a typo and it is supposed to be a F6-B which is an Allison engined P51A-1-NA modified to carry cameras for the Tac/R role. Hard to tell from the photo exactly the serial, whether 43-6053 or 43-6083, but both fall within production block serials for P-51A-1-NA not a P-51B airframe. Looking through other photos of 107th TRS F-6B that have been published to date, they don't appear to have carried the wings pylons and the majority by June 1944 had been modified with the replacement of the framed cockpit hood by a Malcolm Hood.

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## mjfur (Jan 28, 2021)

Navalwarrior said:


> The F-6C were Merlin engined photo recon Mustangs. Are you saying this Mustang was configured to B/C status?



Joe Baugher is saying that a P-51A-1-NA was converted to an F-6C. Perhaps a typo somewhere along the way. The photo while a bit blurry looks like 36053.


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## Gnomey (Jan 30, 2021)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 31, 2021)

*PHOTO* 357th F.G. P-51 Mustang in Combat ETO ~ Excellent | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 31, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang (44-74936) "Sharp Shooter" 167th VA ANG ~ Original 8x10 | eBay

Baugher; North American P-51D-30-NA 44-74936 on display at WPAFB Museum (marked as P-51D-15-NA Ser. No. 44-15174)


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 31, 2021)

*PHOTO* 8th AF P-51B Mustang Nose Art - 358th FS 355th FG ETO - Original Print | eBay

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## Wurger (Jan 31, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 2, 2021)

WWII US GI Photo - P-51 Mustang w/ Tail #472957 Nordholz Air Base Germany | eBay

Baugher: 44-72957 (MSN 122-39416) to Italian AF as MM4288

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## Wurger (Feb 2, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 6, 2021)

Org. Photo: 359th Fighter Group P-51 Fighter Plane (#42-106702; shot down 1944)! | eBay

North American P-51B-10-NA 42-106702 (368th FS, 359th FG) crashed 1 km N of Offenburg, SW of Bischwiller, France Aug 10, 1944. MACR 7782. Both wings broke off in a dive. Pilot Lester W Hovden KIA.

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## Wurger (Feb 6, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 7, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> USAAF P-51A Mustang 1st Air Commando Group India 1944 1 COLOR SLIDE No Photo | eBay
> 
> View attachment 541244



*PHOTO* P-51A Mustang In China Burma ~ 1st Air Commandos - Original Print | eBay

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## Wurger (Feb 7, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 7, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51A Mustang Fighter (42-83828) with Mechanics ~ Excellent | eBay

Baugher: North American A-36A 42-83828 condemned salvage crash Jun 2, 1945


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## Wurger (Feb 7, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 7, 2021)

Org. Nose Art Photo: P-51 Fighter Plane "SHUTTER BUG CHAPERONE"!!! | eBay

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## Wurger (Feb 7, 2021)




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## Navalwarrior (Feb 7, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> Org. Photo: 359th Fighter Group P-51 Fighter Plane (#42-106702; shot down 1944)! | eBay
> 
> North American P-51B-10-NA 42-106702 (368th FS, 359th FG) crashed 1 km N of Offenburg, SW of Bischwiller, France Aug 10, 1944. MACR 7782. Both wings broke off in a dive. Pilot Lester W Hovden KIA.
> 
> View attachment 611691


Resp:
Had he been in a dogfight and received any battle damage to contribute to wings coming off?


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## Navalwarrior (Feb 7, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> *WWII photo- P 51 Mustang Fighter planes on Tarmac w/ Nose Art - SANDY II* | eBay
> 
> View attachment 605436


Definately not the Pacific, as Mustang on L appears to have a Malcolm Hood. Italy, perhaps?


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## Navalwarrior (Feb 7, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> 78th Fighter Group P-51 Fighter Planes Lined Up; England 1943
> 
> View attachment 380267


Definately not 1943.


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## Airframes (Feb 7, 2021)

Taken at Duxford, after the end of the European war, 1945.

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 8, 2021)

*PHOTO* 325th F.G. P-51 Mustangs in Formation MTO ~ Excellent | eBay

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## Wurger (Feb 8, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 9, 2021)

WWII 8TH AIR FORCE 357TH FIGHTER GROUP ORIGINAL VINTAGE PHOTO - P-51D MUSTANG | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 9, 2021)

*PHOTO* 325th F.G. P-51 Mustangs in Combat MTO ~ Excellent | eBay

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## Wurger (Feb 9, 2021)




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## special ed (Feb 9, 2021)

Note new dorsal fin installation.


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## junkman3353 (Feb 10, 2021)

"Shutter-bug Chaperon" (actual spelling-I've got a closeup) used for escort of photo recon missions and assigned to 7th Photo Recon Group and [I think!] 22nd PRS. Light or white rudder is the clue.


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## Tony Kambic (Feb 10, 2021)

42-106742 was in a dive bombing attack when this occurred. 

Page attached from MACR 7782


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 14, 2021)

*PHOTO* 325th F.G. P-51 Mustang "THREEBEES" in Combat MTO ~ Excellent | eBay

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## fubar57 (Feb 14, 2021)

Very cool. Never saw that on drop tanks before

EDIT: That photo is in the Squadron book, "Checkertails The 325th Fighter Group in the Second World War" (Photo Credit Checkertail Clan). The aircraft belonged to Maj. John R Burman, plane #12. The "Three Bees" nose art is on both sides

EDIT THE EDIT: Quite the seller this guy is. Scrolled down to see what else he had: modern pinup girl sold as WW2, German UFOs, one, the caption says, "....in pursuit of aircraft...."


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 16, 2021)

FOTO FLUGZEUG P-51 D MUSTANG | eBay

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## Wurger (Feb 16, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Feb 18, 2021)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 21, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 (44-14245) "Floogie II" Crash Landed ~ 357th FG ~ Excellent | eBay

Baugher: North American P-51D-10-NA (362nd FS, 357th FG, "Floogie II") crashed from unknown cause 3 mi E of RAF Woodridge, Suffolk, England while returning from bomber escort mission Jan 13, 1945. Pilot killed

44-14245 | American Air Museum in Britain

G4-P after belly landing. Floogie II, 44-14245 23 Dec 44 Lt. Jenkins. Coolant shutters inoperable 357th FG New Photos

Otto D Jenkins | American Air Museum in Britain


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 21, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 (44-63334) "The Philly Pip" 3rd Air Commandos ~ Excellent | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 21, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustangs In Combat ~ 55th Fighter Squadron 8th AF ETO ~ Excellent | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 21, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 (41-4799) "Susan B. III - Penny" 358th F.S. ETO - Original 8x10 | eBay
Baugher: North American P-51D-10-NA 44-14799 (354th FS, 355th FG, 8th AF) made wheels up belly landing at RAF Steeple Morden, Cambridgeshire, England due to flak damage Nov 29, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft badly damaged, unknown if repaired.

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## Wurger (Feb 21, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Feb 24, 2021)

Nice shots!


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## Wayne Little (Feb 25, 2021)

Real nice....!


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 27, 2021)

Cavalier Aircraft Enforcer Mustang Fighter Plane Vintage Test Flight Photos lot | eBay

Piper PA-48 Enforcer

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## Wurger (Feb 27, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Mar 1, 2021)

WWII 8TH AIR FORCE 357TH FIGHTER GROUP ACE JENKINS ORIGINAL VINTAGE 2" x 3 PHOTO | eBay

44-14245

Otto D Jenkins | American Air Museum in Britain nickname Dittie

Other shot of this one i posted North American P-51 Mustang

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 1, 2021)

WWII 8TH AIR FORCE 357TH FIGHTER GROUP P-51B MUSTANG "JOAN" WARTIME VINTAGE PIC | eBay

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## Wurger (Mar 1, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Mar 7, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> Photograph North American P-51 " Gloria Ann 2nd " | eBay
> 
> View attachment 601799


*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang (44-14742) "Gloria Ann II" - 353rd F.G. - Original Print | eBay

Joe Miller mcs

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## Gnomey (Mar 8, 2021)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 9, 2021)

WWII 8TH AIR FORCE 357TH FIGHTER GROUP ACE "KIT" CARSON NOOKY BOOKY IV BONEYARD | eBay

*



*

*



*

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## fubar57 (Mar 9, 2021)

Sad indeed


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## Crimea_River (Mar 9, 2021)

What's up with the small dot in the star? Saw that in the US Hurricane pic as well.


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## jgreiner (Mar 10, 2021)

Crimea_River said:


> What's up with the small dot in the star? Saw that in the US Hurricane pic as well.



Fuselage ID/formation lights. Usually in two positions on both port and starboard sides. Not sure if these were unique to the 357th FG but after taking a quick look though my Mustang pic database, I seem to only find them on *some* late war D's of the 357th. One in basically the center of the star and the other, forward one right by the data block. Both can be seen in the picture below. I also have some starboard shots of some other a/c ("Butch Baby" being one) where both can be seen as well.

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## Gnomey (Mar 12, 2021)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 13, 2021)

Original WW2 photo North American Mustang | eBay

RAF

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## Wurger (Mar 13, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Mar 14, 2021)

Original US WWII Photograph OF Angels' Playmate P-51 Mustang Fighter Plane | eBay

Lt R.W. Carr

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## Wurger (Mar 14, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Mar 15, 2021)

VINTAGE WW2 PHOTO UNPUBLISHED 8TH AIR FORCE AERIAL P-51 PLANES 100C | eBay







44-13885 Lil Shusky P-51D-5-NA Mustang

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## Wurger (Mar 15, 2021)




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## Crimea_River (Mar 15, 2021)

Haven't seen that style of nose paint before.


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## fubar57 (Mar 15, 2021)

"LIL SHUSHY" 4th Combat Wing HQ. RAF Bury St. Edmunds, Rougham Airfield


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## mjfur (Mar 15, 2021)

Crimea_River said:


> Haven't seen that style of nose paint before.



Notice the s/n, WW (War Weary) 44-13885 and modified canopy for a backseat rider.
Archive | American Air Museum in Britain

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## Wurger (Mar 15, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Mar 18, 2021)

Nice shots!


----------



## johnbr (Mar 22, 2021)

Facebook art

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 29, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustangs in Combat Formation - 8th AF ETO ~ Original 8x10 | eBay

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## Wurger (Mar 29, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Apr 1, 2021)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 2, 2021)

WW2 USAAF B-17 "PEG ON MY HEART" 42-107061 388TH BG PRESS TYPE PHOTO | eBay

B-17 Douglas-Long Beach B-17G-35-DL 42-107061 | American Air Museum in Britain Peg O' My Heart
Delivered Tulsa 9/2/44; Gr Island 18/2/44; Assigned 561BS/388BG Knettishall 13/3/44; Missing in Action Laon 8/5/44 with Searl Pickett, Co-pilot: Bob Roan, Navigator: Bob Shields, Bombardier: Mervin Jacobs, Flight engineer/top turret gunner: Bob Abar (5 Prisoner of War); Radio Operator: Harry Woods, Ball turret gunner: Warren McLaughlin, Waist gunner: Ed Hoffpauir, Waist gunner: John Hollish,Tail gunner: Bill Hege (5 Killed in Action); enemy aircraft, crashed on Bremen road 15 miles E of Hoya, Ger. Missing Air Crew Report 4581. PEG OF MY HEART.


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## Wurger (Apr 2, 2021)



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## Snautzer01 (Apr 3, 2021)

FOTO FLUGZEUG P-51 D MUSTANG | eBay

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## Wurger (Apr 3, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Apr 5, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang & Pilots in Combat ~ 12th TRS 9th AF - Excellent | eBay

Mazie, Me and Monk

Capt. Pilot E.B. Travis (right)


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 5, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustangs in Combat - 528th FS 14th AF China - Excellent | eBay

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## Wurger (Apr 5, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Apr 6, 2021)

205 - 35mm Kodachrome Aircraft Slide - Cavalier F-51D Mustang 68-15795 @ EDW '73 | eBay

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## Wurger (Apr 6, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Apr 10, 2021)

USAF P-51 Mustang Aircraft at Suwon, Korea in early 1950's, Original Slide e27b | eBay

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## Wayne Little (Apr 10, 2021)

nice one.


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## SaparotRob (Apr 10, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> *PHOTO* P-51 Mustang & Pilots in Combat ~ 12th TRS 9th AF - Excellent | eBay
> 
> Mazie, Me and Monk
> 
> ...


That's an interesting "kill(?)" score on Mazie Monk and Me. Closest I can figure is eight ice cream cones (one made him ill, the Purple Heart above it) and 11 Lord Stanley‘s Cups. That can't be right.


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## Crimea_River (Apr 10, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> That's an interesting "kill(?)" score on Mazie Monk and Me. Closest I can figure is eight ice cream cones (one made him ill, the Purple Heart above it) and 11 Lord Stanley‘s Cups. That can't be right.



The "Stanley Cups" could be brooms, commonly used to represent "sweeps".

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## fubar57 (Apr 10, 2021)

I think the ice cream cones are cameras

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## Snautzer01 (Apr 11, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang "Mrs. Bonnie" in Combat - 348th FG Ace Dunham ~ Excellent | eBay

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## Wurger (Apr 11, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Apr 12, 2021)

WWII Era American Photo US Air Force Fighter Plane Nose Art Miss Bonnie b7 | eBay

look at #952 what a coincidence.


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 12, 2021)

WWII Era American Photo US Air Force Fighter Plane Nose Art Capt. John Eichar b7 | eBay

Flight of P-51 44-72028 On 30-April-1946, a/c 72028 was assigned to the 49FG, 7FS at Chitose AFB, Japan. On 12 June 1946 a/c 72028, piloted by James A. Watkins was assigned to the 7th Fighter Squadron, 49th Fighter Group when it was involved in a mid-air collision with *44-73821 a P-51D-25NA piloted by John L. Eichar* of the same squadron and group. The collision occurred in the area of 4 miles Northeast of Sapporo, the largest city on the northern Japanese island of Hokkaido. Both a/c landed safely. On 13 April 1948, 72028 was still assigned to the 49FG, 7FS but they moved to Misawa AFB, Japan. Then on 27 May 1948 72028 was assigned to AMC, Sacramento, CA. for disposal.


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## Wurger (Apr 12, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Apr 12, 2021)

U.S. WW2 P51 MUSTANG, DOUGLAS A2PC, B2Y MAURAUDER ORIGINAL PICS | eBay
U.S. WW2 P51 MUSTANG, DOUGLAS A2PC, B2Y MAURAUDER ORIGINAL PICS | eBay

Baugher 43-7001 F-6B, 160th TRS, 363rd TRG, 9th AF) in landing accident at Le Culot/East Airfield Y-10, Le Culot, Belgium Dec 5, 1944. Pilot survived, but aircraft was destroyed.

Note: damadge does not look that bad. saeen much worse getting in action again.

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## Peter Gunn (Apr 12, 2021)

I agree it doesn't seem too bad at first glance, but the second photo from behind looks like the wings, tail and especially the fuselage look pretty shot up. Being as how it's December '44 and she's a pretty tired looking B or C model, maybe they just didn't really feel the need to bring her back to life with all the D's and K's that had been coming online the last six month.

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## Snautzer01 (Apr 20, 2021)

1940s CHINA FLYING TIGERS AVG U.S. P-40 WARPLANES PHOTO 二战飞虎空军 | eBay

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## Wurger (Apr 20, 2021)

Humm.. P-40+11 rather. But the AVG is too much.

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## Gnomey (Apr 23, 2021)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 25, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang (44-64040) 354th FG 5+ Kills - Excellent! | eBay

North American P-51D-20-NA 44-64040 Lil Miko's

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## Wurger (Apr 25, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Apr 28, 2021)

GREAT WW2 AIRCRAFT PHOTO POST CARD NORTH AMERICAN P-51 FIGHTER W.J.GRAY WWII | eBay

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## Wurger (Apr 28, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Apr 30, 2021)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (May 1, 2021)

FOTO REPRINT FLUGZEUG P-51 MUSTANG | eBay

43-12410 | American Air Museum in Britain

First P-51 to fly 50 combat missions. Later transferred to the 67th TRG

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## Snautzer01 (May 1, 2021)

Foto luftwaffe Mustang p51 US Feindflug | eBay


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## Wurger (May 1, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (May 4, 2021)

1944 P-51 Mustangs at USAAF Assembly Center in England 7x9 Original News Photo | eBay

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## Wurger (May 4, 2021)




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## Gnomey (May 10, 2021)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (May 18, 2021)

Original WWII Photo P-51 Susy Kae Pacific Tinian Fighter Plane Aircraft Nose Art | eBay

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## Wurger (May 18, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Jun 1, 2021)

*WWII photo- P 51 Mustang Fighter plane Nose Art - GENIE* | eBay

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## Wurger (Jun 1, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Jun 2, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang in Combat 12th Photo Recon Squadron - Original Print | eBay

seller: 44-14565 in combat. I.D.ed to the 12th Photo Recon squadron 10th PRG 8th Air Force ETO 12th TRS

Baugher: P-51D-10-NA

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## Peter Gunn (Jun 2, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> 1944 P-51 Mustangs at USAAF Assembly Center in England 7x9 Original News Photo | eBay
> 
> View attachment 621927
> 
> ...


I really like this shot, it looks to me that even the wingtips were not installed, possibly to save space aboard ship?


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## Peter Gunn (Jun 2, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> Foto luftwaffe Mustang p51 US Feindflug | eBay
> 
> View attachment 621578


Another great shot, circle P=Prototype if I'm not mistaken yes? Also has the shrouded nose guns, is this the first Mustang sent to England?


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 4, 2021)

https://rosetta.slv.vic.gov.au/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_func=stream&dps_pid=FL15972977

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## Snautzer01 (Jun 4, 2021)

https://rosetta.slv.vic.gov.au/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_func=stream&dps_pid=FL15997563

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## Snautzer01 (Jun 4, 2021)

https://rosetta.slv.vic.gov.au/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_func=stream&dps_pid=FL16034323

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## Snautzer01 (Jun 4, 2021)

https://rosetta.slv.vic.gov.au/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_func=stream&dps_pid=FL15961295

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## Wurger (Jun 4, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Jun 6, 2021)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 19, 2021)

1940s airplane by Aeroplane Photo Supply #754 North American 73 XP-51 Mustang | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1940s airplane by Aeroplane Photo Supply #754 North American 73 XP-51 Mustang at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com

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## Wurger (Jun 19, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Jun 24, 2021)

fubar57 said:


> "LIL SHUSHY" 4th Combat Wing HQ. RAF Bury St. Edmunds, Rougham Airfield











VINTAGE WW2 US MILITARY P-51 MUSTANG PLANE PHOTO LIL SHUSHY 68C | eBay


WOULD MAKE A GREAT ADDITION TO YOUR COLLECTION!



www.ebay.com

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## Wurger (Jun 24, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Jun 27, 2021)

NORTH AMERICAN AVIATION: MUSTANG P-51 FIGHTER ORIGINAL PHOTOGRAPH WITH STAMP | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NORTH AMERICAN AVIATION: MUSTANG P-51 FIGHTER ORIGINAL PHOTOGRAPH WITH STAMP at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





41-37324 was tested P-51 Tactical Trials

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## Wurger (Jun 27, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Jun 30, 2021)

Original WW2 12th USAAF 8”x10” Unpublished photo Fighter And Crew W/ 12th Guidon | eBay

12th Photo Recon Sqdn


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 30, 2021)

Original unpublished WW2 12th US Army Air Force 8”x10” photo | eBay


<body><p>Original unpublished WW2 12th US Army Air Force 8”x10” photo. The photo is of an American fighter with 4 crew members with one holding a 12th guidon. The photo is in great condition it has a small hand written caption on the lower left corner that says July 45 Furth Germany. The...



www.ebay.com





44-14565 in Combat 12th Photo Recon Sqdn 12th TRS

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## Wurger (Jun 30, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Jul 8, 2021)

RARE WWII WW2 ORIG. PHOTO P-51D NATIONALIST CHINESE INSIGNIA USAAF AIR FORCE | eBay


VERY, very, rare photo of a P-51D with Nationalist Chinese markings on it! Only one like it that was in the album. Photo is in nice shape and clear, I don't have a scanner so I'm taking photos of the photos.



www.ebay.com

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## Wayne Little (Jul 8, 2021)

Nice.


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## Wurger (Jul 8, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Jul 9, 2021)

NORTH AMERICAN P-51 MUSTANG FIGHTER ~ MARKED “LEO” ~TAIL # 414914 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NORTH AMERICAN P-51 MUSTANG FIGHTER ~ MARKED “LEO” ~TAIL # 414914 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





North American P-51D-15-NA, 44-14914 , Leo

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## Wurger (Jul 9, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Jul 21, 2021)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d42000/8d42800/8d42838v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d42000/8d42700/8d42796v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d42000/8d42800/8d42840v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d42000/8d42700/8d42757v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d42000/8d42800/8d42847v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d42000/8d42700/8d42756v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d42000/8d42800/8d42835v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d42000/8d42800/8d42836v.jpg



Painters swarm over a North American P-51 fighter as it leaves the assembly line. Cleaning before spray painting

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d42000/8d42800/8d42837v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d42000/8d42800/8d42846v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8b05000/8b05300/8b05312v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8b05000/8b05300/8b05315v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8b13000/8b13000/8b13087v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d42000/8d42800/8d42801v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d42000/8d42800/8d42802v.jpg

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## Wurger (Jul 31, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsac/1a35000/1a35300/1a35303v.jpg


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## Wurger (Jul 31, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8b05000/8b05300/8b05318v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8b05000/8b05300/8b05319v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 31, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8b05000/8b05300/8b05321v.jpg

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## Wurger (Jul 31, 2021)




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## special ed (Jul 31, 2021)

Re: post 1010 - What is the four blade prop in the background attached to, a test engine and stand?


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## Gnomey (Aug 1, 2021)

Good shots!


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## Crimea_River (Aug 1, 2021)

Fabulous pics.


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## Mustangtmg (Aug 2, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> Poor thing gets gas then...
> 
> View attachment 282895


You've heard of the "relief tube" --- that refers to the little one for urine.

This one is hooked up to the pilot's seat and is for getting rid of hydrogen/methane combinations ... MEREDITH EFFECT...I doan need no stinkin Meredith Effect!


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## Mustangtmg (Aug 2, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> Standing in line: P51 1st Air Command ~ Karachi India
> View attachment 352957


Oh how wonderful these P-51As are: in the CBI they did ground attack (strafing), glide bombing, air-to-air combat and escort fighters for bombers.

DOWN "low" nothing in the CBI Theatre could catch them!

I love 'em almost as much as the plane they descended from, the A-36A Mustang!


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 4, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8b05000/8b05300/8b05312v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 4, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8b05000/8b05300/8b05314v.jpg

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 4, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8b09000/8b09500/8b09542v.jpg



Wooden wheels are attached to a P-51 ("Mustang") fighter plane so it may be moved around the ramp at the Inglewood, California plant of North American Aviation, Incorporated. When it is ready for flight tests, regular landing wheels with rubber tires will be substituted.

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 4, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8b04000/8b04900/8b04992v.jpg



Model makers prepare accurately scaled miniatures of planes built at the Inglewood, California plant of North American Aviation, Incorporated. Here an experimental model of the P-51 ("Mustang") is being finished for wind tunnel and other tests.

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 4, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/ds/10100/10166v.jpg



An unidentified Tuskegee airman sitting on top of an airplane, a P-5/D, "Creamer's Dream" airplane in the background, Ramitelli, Italy, March 1945

see also P-51D "Creamer's Dream"

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 4, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/ppmsca/13200/13250v.jpg



goats on a runway, with airplanes in the background, in Ramitelli, Italy, March 1945.

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## Wurger (Aug 4, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Aug 4, 2021)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 12, 2021)

Original Photo P-51 Mustang Fighter Group 8th Air Force D Day markings painted | eBay


Printed on Velox paper and has a number stamp on the back.



www.ebay.com





D-Day stripes


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 12, 2021)

Original Photo P-51B Mustang OD Bubble canopy w White ID markings 9th Air Force | eBay


Might be 354th FG with the white markings on the nose and wings/tail. Shows a man standing next to it in full winter type gear.



www.ebay.com





P-51B Mustang OD Bubble canopy w White ID markings 9th Air Force

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## SaparotRob (Aug 12, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8b09000/8b09500/8b09542v.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That picture is a first for me. Wooden tires on a Mustang. Well, I'll be.


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## Peter Gunn (Aug 13, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> That picture is first for me. Wooden tires on a Mustang. Well, I'll be.


I actually posted a couple of pictures, that one included I think about a year and a half ago in another thread, somewhere in the 800 range I think.






Picture of the day.


I hope this becomes a regular thread. Post a single picture of anything to do with WW2, including the years prior and just after. Here's the first one. USS Cowpens rolls heavily during Typhoon Cobra, December 17th, 1944.



ww2aircraft.net





There are a lot of them in the National Archives and the Library of Congress.

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## MIflyer (Aug 23, 2021)

P-51 of Major John C. "Pappy" Herbst of the 23rd Fighter group, 74th Fighter Squadron. He had one kill in Europe with the RCAF before going to China.

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## Wurger (Aug 23, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Aug 24, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang (44-13603) Crashed in ETO 8th Air Force ~ Excellent | eBay


I.D.ed on the back.



www.ebay.com





Baugher: P-51D-5-NA 44-13603 486th FS, 352nd FG) in landing accident at RAF Bodney, Norfolk, England Jul 24, 1944. Pilot survived, but aircraft was destroyed.

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## Wurger (Aug 24, 2021)




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## Crimea_River (Aug 25, 2021)

That should buff out.

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 28, 2021)

Old photograph North American P-51 Mustang fighter | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Old photograph North American P-51 Mustang fighter at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





Baugher P-51B-10-NA 43-7116 (76th FS, 23rd FG) crashed from unknown cause between Luliang and Liuchow, China Oct 28, 1944. MACR 10058. Pilot killed.

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## Wurger (Aug 28, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Aug 30, 2021)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 9, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> 1943 North American XP-51 Mustang Fighter WWII Airplane Photo Langley Aviation | eBay
> 
> View attachment 610361











GREAT WW2 AIRCRAFT PHOTO POST CARD NORTH AMERICAN AVIATION XP-51 W.J.GRAY WWII | eBay


GOOD LUCK! All parts are sold "As Is" with all the benefits and faults. Parts should be professionally inspected/Installed /Fitted.



www.ebay.com





XP-51

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## Wurger (Sep 9, 2021)




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## SaparotRob (Sep 9, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> GREAT WW2 AIRCRAFT PHOTO POST CARD NORTH AMERICAN AVIATION XP-51 W.J.GRAY WWII | eBay
> 
> 
> GOOD LUCK! All parts are sold "As Is" with all the benefits and faults. Parts should be professionally inspected/Installed /Fitted.
> ...


My favorite Mustang.


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 28, 2021)

*PHOTO* P-51C (F-6C) "OH JOHNIE" in Combat 109th TRS 67th TRG ~ Excellent | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *PHOTO* P-51C (F-6C) "OH JOHNIE" in Combat 109th TRS 67th TRG ~ Excellent at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





Baugher P-51C-10-NT 43-25081 Oh Johnie














P-51 Shady Lady, Oh Johnie 1/32 Kitsworld Decals


P-51 Shady Lady, Oh Johnie 1/32 Kitsworld Decals




www.megahobby.com

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## Wurger (Sep 28, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 3, 2021)

P-51 ("Mustang") fighter plane in construction, North American Aviation, Inc., Los Angeles, Calif.


1 transparency : color.



www.loc.gov

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## Snautzer01 (Oct 3, 2021)

https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d03000/8d03800/8d03822v.jpg

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## Wurger (Oct 3, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Oct 5, 2021)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 7, 2021)

N°15714 / photo argentique avion de chasse "PEG O'MYHEART" | eBay


Les meilleures offres pour N°15714 / photo argentique avion de chasse "PEG O'MYHEART" sont sur eBay ✓ Comparez les prix et les spécificités des produits neufs et d'occasion ✓ Pleins d'articles en livraison gratuite!



www.ebay.fr





PEG O'MYHEART

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## Wurger (Oct 7, 2021)




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## drgondog (Oct 7, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> P-51 ("Mustang") fighter plane in construction, North American Aviation, Inc., Los Angeles, Calif.
> 
> 
> 1 transparency : color.
> ...


P-51-NA or Mustang Mk IA

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## drgondog (Oct 7, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/pnp/fsa/8d03000/8d03800/8d03822v.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 643466


XP-51 or Mustang I

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## drgondog (Oct 7, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> N°15714 / photo argentique avion de chasse "PEG O'MYHEART" | eBay
> 
> 
> Les meilleures offres pour N°15714 / photo argentique avion de chasse "PEG O'MYHEART" sont sur eBay ✓ Comparez les prix et les spécificités des produits neufs et d'occasion ✓ Pleins d'articles en livraison gratuite!
> ...


P-51B-1-NA 354th FG

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## Snautzer01 (Oct 16, 2021)

Org. Photo: Aerial View British RAF Mustang Fighter Plane in Flight; 1943!!! | eBay


Take care. Should you have an issue with any item sold I am of course open to communication to rectify any issues. DO NOT DUPLICATE OR COPY!



www.ebay.com





RAF

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## Wurger (Oct 16, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 19, 2021)

NORTH AMERICAN: P-51B MUSTANG ORIGINAL MARTIN & KELMAN PHOTOGRAPH W/ STAMP | eBay


ORIGINAL 'MARTIN & KELMAN' PHOTOGRAPH W/ STAMP. P-51B MUSTANG.



www.ebay.com










Baugher P-51B-1-NA 43-12094 assigned to NACA Ames Aeronautical Laboratory, NAS Moffett Field, CA Nov 16, 1944 to Sep 9, 1947 Used for aerodynamics research. The propeller of the aircraft was removed and its oil and coolant ducts blocked so that it resembled the wind tunnel model. The aircraft was towed aloft by a P-61 and released. Careful measurements of longitudinal deceleration were used to determine aircraft drag, and the pilot of the Mustang made a powerless, gliding landing.Used for transonic model tests

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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Oct 25, 2021)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 29, 2021)

*WWII photo- 450th Bomb Group- A 36 Apache/ Invader Dive Bomber plane (C MM)* | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *WWII photo- 450th Bomb Group- A 36 Apache/ Invader Dive Bomber plane (C MM)* at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com

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## Wurger (Oct 29, 2021)

But I wouldn't say that's the A-36 Apache.


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## drgondog (Oct 31, 2021)

Wurger said:


> But I wouldn't say that's the A-36 Apache.


Not sure whether gentle sarcasm or? but A-36 first flew 3 months after Kindelberger formally requested of Army Public Relations that all NAA figters bereferred to as the Mustang (and T-6 'Texan' and B-25 'Mitchell'). Only the P-51-NA was briefly named Apache in May/June 1942. Informal attempts in the field were made the A-36 the 'Invader'


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## Snautzer01 (Oct 31, 2021)

drgondog said:


> Not sure whether gentle sarcasm or? but A-36 first flew 3 months after Kindelberger formally requested of Army Public Relations that all NAA figters bereferred to as the Mustang (and T-6 'Texan' and B-25 'Mitchell'). Only the P-51-NA was briefly named Apache in May/June 1942. Informal attempts in the field were made the A-36 the 'Invader'


wurger is reacting to the sellers comment i think

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## Wurger (Oct 31, 2021)

Exactly that's what I meant.

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## Snautzer01 (Nov 2, 2021)

WW2 WWII US Army Air Force USAAF Early P51 Mustang Fighter Plane Nose Art Photo | eBay


Airplane type: P51. Good Luck!



www.ebay.com





Playboy

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## Wurger (Nov 2, 2021)




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## drgondog (Nov 2, 2021)

Wurger said:


>


Looks like 111 TRS - the P-51 looks like a -2 with camera mount (covered)


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## Snautzer01 (Nov 7, 2021)

Original Kodachrome Slide 35mm P-51 Nose Art military (K78) | eBay


Subject: P-51 Nose art.



www.ebay.com





Betty Jane

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## Snautzer01 (Nov 7, 2021)

Original Kodachrome Slide 35mm P-51 Sharks teeth military (K77) | eBay


Subject: P-51 Sharks teeth.



www.ebay.com





Baugher P-51D-30-NA 44-74509 (18th FBG) shot down by MiGs Apr 30, 1951.

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## Snautzer01 (Nov 7, 2021)

Original Kodachrome Slide 35mm P-51 & crew WW2 WWII military (K74) | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Original Kodachrome Slide 35mm P-51 & crew WW2 WWII military (K74) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





National Guard

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## Snautzer01 (Nov 7, 2021)

Original Kodachrome Slide 35mm P-51 CBI WW2 WWII military (K73) | eBay


Subject: P-51 CBI China.



www.ebay.com





China 1944

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## Snautzer01 (Nov 7, 2021)

Original Kodachrome Slide 35mm P-51 crash WW2 WWII military (K72) | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Original Kodachrome Slide 35mm P-51 crash WW2 WWII military (K72) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com












Original Kodachrome Slide 35mm P-51 crash WW2 WWII military (K71) | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Original Kodachrome Slide 35mm P-51 crash WW2 WWII military (K71) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com






P-51D-30-NT 45-11575

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## Snautzer01 (Nov 7, 2021)

Original Kodachrome Slide 35mm P-51 tiger teeth Korea WW2 WWII military (K70) | eBay


Subject: P-51 tiger teeth.



www.ebay.com





Korea 1952 12th sqdn FF-744

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## Wurger (Nov 7, 2021)




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## GTX (Nov 7, 2021)



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## Dana Bell (Nov 7, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> *WWII photo- 450th Bomb Group- A 36 Apache/ Invader Dive Bomber plane (C MM)* | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *WWII photo- 450th Bomb Group- A 36 Apache/ Invader Dive Bomber plane (C MM)* at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> ...



With the passing of the years and a few more dead brain cells than I would prefer, the publication of this photo on this site inadvertently reminded me that I hadn't lost all my marbles. As other have already noted, this certainly wasn't an A-36 or any other Allison-powered Mustang - it was a P-51B or C. The tail stripes (red) placed this aircraft in the 31st Fighter Group, Fifteenth Air Force. But the "MM" squadron codes made no sense - I'd never before seen them on an AAF fighter. No matter, there are plenty of things I can't explain.

So the better half and I went out to run errands for a few hours. We were driving home on the highway when I blurted out "Charles M. McCorkle!" (We've been married a few decades now, so she's used to my strange declarations.) It turns out I published a photo of the opposite side of this aircraft on page 79 of _Air Force Colors, Vol II_ in 1980. Due to space limitations with the star insignia, the pilot (and group commander) has his initials as CM*M on the Mustang's left side.

Nice to now have both sides of the aircraft, and to know that I'm not completely bonkers...

Cheers,



Dana

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## fubar57 (Nov 7, 2021)

Good stuff Dana

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## CATCH 22 (Nov 7, 2021)

Dana Bell said:


> ....this certainly wasn't an A-36 or any other Allison-powered Mustang - it was a P-51B or C....


The third known (to me) photo of this a/c shows her full identity: P-51B-10NA s/n 42-106501 and her pilot MCC:




Source: Fold3

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## special ed (Nov 7, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> Original Kodachrome Slide 35mm P-51 Nose Art military (K78) | eBay
> 
> 
> Subject: P-51 Nose art.
> ...


Anyone notice the blue Skyraider?


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## Snautzer01 (Nov 8, 2021)

special ed said:


> Anyone notice the blue Skyraider?


Yes.


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## drgondog (Nov 8, 2021)

Dana Bell said:


> With the passing of the years and a few more dead brain cells than I would prefer, the publication of this photo on this site inadvertently reminded me that I hadn't lost all my marbles. As other have already noted, this certainly wasn't an A-36 or any other Allison-powered Mustang - it was a P-51B or C. The tail stripes (red) placed this aircraft in the 31st Fighter Group, Fifteenth Air Force. But the "MM" squadron codes made no sense - I'd never before seen them on an AAF fighter. No matter, there are plenty of things I can't explain.
> 
> So the better half and I went out to run errands for a few hours. We were driving home on the highway when I blurted out "Charles M. McCorkle!" (We've been married a few decades now, so she's used to my strange declarations.) It turns out I published a photo of the opposite side of this aircraft on page 79 of _Air Force Colors, Vol II_ in 1980. Due to space limitations with the star insignia, the pilot (and group commander) has his initials as CM*M on the Mustang's left side.
> 
> ...


Dana - Maj General Charles "Sandy" McCorkle was dad's last boss before retiring. He was CoS ADC, Missles Division, and dad was his Deputy. Dad loved Sandy but despised Pentagon in, general.


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## Dana Bell (Nov 8, 2021)

drgondog said:


> Dana - Maj General Charles "Sandy" McCorkle was dad's last boss before retiring. He was CoS ADC, Missles Division, and dad was his Deputy. Dad loved Sandy but despised Pentagon in, general.


Now THAT's a familiar story. I've worked with so many wonderful people who came out of the five-sided puzzle palace who talked about their wonderful coworkers and toxic work environment. (It's amazing that we were able to win the Vietnam War!) I spent seven years just down the street with AF Audiovisual - it was like Pentagon lite.

Cheers,



Dana

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## drgondog (Nov 8, 2021)

Dana Bell said:


> Now THAT's a familiar story. I've worked with so many wonderful people who came out of the five-sided puzzle palace who talked about their wonderful coworkers and toxic work environment. (It's amazing that we were able to win the Vietnam War!) I spent seven years just down the street with AF Audiovisual - it was like Pentagon lite.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ...


Dad was right down the hall from Robin Olds and he was also close to 'bolting'... both wondering if the star was worth the aggravation. Dad would probably have stayed if his request to get a Wing had been approved - not to mention that ADC reported to SAC. That said I got to meet LeMay at retirement party when he dropped by the house.

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## Snautzer01 (Nov 8, 2021)

Dana Bell said:


> we were able to win the Vietnam War!
> 
> 
> 
> Dana



You guys did?


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## Dana Bell (Nov 8, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> You guys did?


I've never had much use for emogies, but right now I need to get my cheek repaired from where my tongue punched through...

And a special thanks for posting the link to that Mustang sale on eBay - I'd have never seen it without all your hard work!

Cheers,



Dana


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## Snautzer01 (Nov 8, 2021)

You are welcome Dana.


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## Frog (Nov 8, 2021)

North American add ; US Air Service April 1942 :

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## Snautzer01 (Nov 11, 2021)

1944 U.S. Aerial P-51 Mustang b/w 9x7 press photo "Acme photo ad use only" stamp | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1944 U.S. Aerial P-51 Mustang b/w 9x7 press photo "Acme photo ad use only" stamp at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com

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## Wurger (Nov 11, 2021)




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## CATCH 22 (Nov 11, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> 1944 U.S. Aerial P-51 Mustang b/w 9x7 press photo "Acme photo ad use only" stamp | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1944 U.S. Aerial P-51 Mustang b/w 9x7 press photo "Acme photo ad use only" stamp at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> ...


I believe this is the XP-51B as seen below and the text, published on January 15, 1944 is kind of misleading for the time of publication, IMHO

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## Wurger (Nov 11, 2021)

I agree. A good catch.


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## Snautzer01 (Nov 12, 2021)

P-51 Plane 31st Fighter Group Italy Original WWII Photo | eBay


Original WWII photo of a P-51.



www.ebay.com





31st Fighter Group Italy San Severo august 2 1944 American Beauty", Capt. John Voll, 308FS/31FG

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## Wurger (Nov 12, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Nov 22, 2021)

WWII: NORTH AMERICAN A 36 ALLISON (O.U.O) ORIGINAL AIR MINISTRY PHOTO MARCH 1943 | eBay


ORIGINAL AIR MINISTRY PHOTO. AIR MINISTRY REF: 11,319 A. MARCH 1943.



www.ebay.com

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## Wurger (Nov 22, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Dec 12, 2021)

WWII: MUSTANG I ALLISON (O.U.O) ORIGINAL AIR MINISTRY PHOTO NOV 1941 | eBay


MUSTANG I ALLISON. ORIGINAL AIR MINISTRY PHOTO. AIR MINISTRY REF: 10,680 A. USED condition.



www.ebay.com





MUSTANG I ALLISON (O.U.O) ORIGINAL AIR MINISTRY PHOTO NOV 1941

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## Wurger (Dec 12, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Dec 14, 2021)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 16, 2021)

WWII photo- *850th AEB* Damaged P-51 MUSTANG Fighter plane on Airfield tarmac | #1800473389


An original (3.5 x 5.25 ) WWII time period photograph that belonged to PFC. William G. King who was an engineer with the 850th Engineer Aviation Battalion and helped construct airfields in England 19




www.worthpoint.com

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## Wurger (Dec 16, 2021)




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## Snautzer01 (Dec 20, 2021)

*PHOTO* 12th TRS Armament Section with F-6D Fighter in Combat ~ Excellent | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *PHOTO* 12th TRS Armament Section with F-6D Fighter in Combat ~ Excellent at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





44-14565

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## Wurger (Dec 20, 2021)




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## fubar57 (Dec 20, 2021)

14565 produced as F-6D-10-NA


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## junkman3353 (Dec 29, 2021)

Looks like 565 was the backdrop for a unit photo session.

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## junkman3353 (Dec 29, 2021)

Also that she may have been named "Dragon Lady". I'd like to find an unobstructed view of the port side.

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## SaparotRob (Dec 29, 2021)

Look at all those happy smiling faces.

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## Wurger (Dec 30, 2021)




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## Gnomey (Jan 3, 2022)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 11, 2022)

https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/9872



gun harmonisation Mustang MK 1

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## Snautzer01 (Jan 27, 2022)

Life and times of the 320th Bomb Group


Life and times of the 320th Bomb Group containing pictures of B-26, B-25, Me262 wreck, captured BF109, Spitfire, bone yards.



ww2aircraft.net





California Mustang North Africa 1942

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## fubar57 (Jan 27, 2022)

Up for resale... North American A-36 Apache


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 27, 2022)

fubar57 said:


> Up for resale... North American A-36 Apache


it was Jun 27, 2019


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## Wurger (Jan 27, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Jan 29, 2022)

UNITED STATES USA FIGHTER PLANE INTELLIGENCE WW2 ORIGINAL PRESS PHOTO P-51 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for UNITED STATES USA FIGHTER PLANE INTELLIGENCE WW2 ORIGINAL PRESS PHOTO P-51 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





Bastogne

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## Wurger (Jan 29, 2022)




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## Gnomey (Jan 31, 2022)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 7, 2022)

Original WWII Alaska Runway Airplane Photos P-51 Mustangs C-47 Skytrain USAAF | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Original WWII Alaska Runway Airplane Photos P-51 Mustangs C-47 Skytrain USAAF at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





Alaska

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## Wurger (Feb 7, 2022)




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## Gnomey (Feb 9, 2022)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 21, 2022)

P-51D-25-NT 44-84750 2nd SAAF Sq hit by AAA and crash-landed at K-16 Sep 20, 1951 Thursday. Plane destroyed.














1944-48 USAAF P-51 Mustang 20th Fighter Group 484750 8x10 Original Photo | eBay


The 20th Fighter Group served with the 8th Air Force in England. Photo is a bit bleached out but all in all not bad. Historical photograph. Size: Size given is almost always the paper size of item and not image size.



www.ebay.com

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## Wurger (Feb 21, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 25, 2022)

Mustang Mk.I, XV-E, AG633 of No.2 Sqd Ex-Admiralty



















Original WW2 1941-1942 North American MUSTANG Royal Air Force Ex-Admiralty RAF | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Original WW2 1941-1942 North American MUSTANG Royal Air Force Ex-Admiralty RAF at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com

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## Wurger (Feb 25, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 25, 2022)

Pilot James H. Howard 1944 pictorial 
























P-51 Mustang Fighter Pilot James H. Howard 1944 pictorial “Fighting at 425 MPH" | eBay


“Fighting at 425 Miles an Hour”. & Plans from a Bygone Era. Discover a Wealth of How-to Projects. Grandpa's Secrets.



www.ebay.com

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## Snautzer01 (Feb 25, 2022)

Women prep a P-51 MUSTANG for shipment to Britain 1943














WWII Women prep a P-51 MUSTANG for shipment to Britain 1943 MAGAZINE PHOTO | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for WWII Women prep a P-51 MUSTANG for shipment to Britain 1943 MAGAZINE PHOTO at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com

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## Wurger (Feb 25, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Feb 25, 2022)

USAF FTD Wright Field North American P-51H Mustang, c. 1950

P-51H-5-NA 44-64266














Original Slide, USAF FTD Wright Field North American P-51H Mustang, c. 1950 | eBay


Date: circa 1950. The scan below has not captured all detail, but shows the relative sharpness of the slide. The green text reading "embitt scan" was superimposed after scanning. Original 35mm film slide.



www.ebay.com

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## Wurger (Feb 25, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Mar 20, 2022)

James E Webb P-51 43-210903 (not in Baugher list





































































One Of A Kind World War 2 Diary Antique Yellow Scorpions Photograph WW2 WWII | eBay


<p>One Of A Kind World War 2 Diary Antique Yellow Scorpions Photograph. </p><p>No clue what the value of this is. It’s all original, from the diary of Sgt James Webb 530th fighter squadron SE - pilot Yellow Scorpions</p><p>Full of pictures, newspaper clippings, female centerfold cut outs...



www.ebay.com

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 20, 2022)



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## Wurger (Mar 20, 2022)




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## gkjl (Mar 20, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> James E Webb P-51 43-210903 (not in Baugher list
> 
> View attachment 661941
> 
> ...


P-51C-10-NT 42-103903


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 20, 2022)

gkjl said:


> P-51C-10-NT 42-103903


I think you are right thanks. I took the number of the drawing. It was condemned salvage Dec 31, 1945






There are even models of this one P-51 MUSTANG FREAKS Blog:530thFS/311stFG/14thAF　 "PENNY"　1079 ☆　P-51C-10-NT(S/N.42-103903) をMUSTANG GALLERYにup !!

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## Wurger (Mar 20, 2022)




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## gkjl (Mar 20, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> I think you are right thanks. I took the number of the drawing. It was condemned salvage Dec 31, 1945
> 
> View attachment 661972
> 
> ...


The vertical tail two slash marking of that model is reversed.


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## Wurger (Mar 20, 2022)

Acually not, it isn't if she belonged to the 530FS.


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## Gnomey (Mar 22, 2022)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 25, 2022)

vmail photo 356th fighter squadron















WWII vmail photo 356th fighter squadron | eBay


<p>WWII vmail photo 356th fighter squadron. Vintage WWII and the pilots face in the lower right corner. A rare and nice item.</p><br /><p>About 3” x 4”.</p>



www.ebay.com

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 25, 2022)

Wurger said:


> Acually not, it isn't if she belonged to the 530FS.








42-106702 | American Air Museum







www.americanairmuseum.com


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## Wurger (Mar 25, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> 42-106702 | American Air Museum
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have reffered to the gkjl's post #1142 above.





the source: the net.

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## Peter Gunn (Mar 25, 2022)

I realize you guys know I'm a dyed in the wool Mustang "Fanboy" or is it "Fanboi"?

But that is a great picture of 1078. To me there is no ugly on that airplane.

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## gkjl (Mar 25, 2022)

P-51C, 530th FS, 311st FG.

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## Wurger (Mar 25, 2022)

I see. So it means that there was a mistake made somewhere in the past. So you have been right.


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## gkjl (Mar 26, 2022)

Wurger said:


> I see. So it means that there was a mistake made somewhere in the past. So you have been right.


Incorrect sample.

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 26, 2022)

?+CQ


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## Wurger (Mar 26, 2022)




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## fubar57 (Mar 26, 2022)

P-07?

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 26, 2022)

fubar57 said:


> P-07?


Was wondering about that too.


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## GTX (Mar 26, 2022)



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## SaparotRob (Mar 26, 2022)

What did the bad people do to that Mustang?

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## nuuumannn (Mar 26, 2022)

Damned Australians... 






SimplePlanes | P-51 Dartstang


PC and mobile game about building airplanes.



www.simpleplanes.com

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## drgondog (Mar 27, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> View attachment 352550
> View attachment 352549


Don Gentile in VF-T 43-6713, one of the last 200 modified with 85 gal fuselage tank, and denoted at the Buffalo Depot as P-51B-7-NA with white 'cg' 6x6 inch cross to so identify it. It was the first P-51B-5-NA to receive all of the individual airframe mods (internal wing fuel pump and pressurization for combat tanks, added Oxygen bottles, added increased oil tank for extended range, etc.

Too bad he crashed it while buzzing Debden. He was 'forever' banned by Blakeslee at 4th FG and spent the rest of the war as a test pilot at Wright Field. He was ahead of Preddy, Johnson and Gabreski when he cracked it up. IMO he could achieved top USAAF ETO ace easily with another tour.

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 28, 2022)

drgondog
Who was banned by Gentile?


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## Peter Gunn (Mar 28, 2022)

I believe 

 drgondog
had a little typo, Gentile was banned by Blakeslee (4th Group C.O.) after cracking up "Shangri-La" buzzing Debden for the news cameras after his tour was up. I agree, He might have not only gotten top ETO status but probably could have challenged Bong and McGuire for top spot.

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## drgondog (Mar 28, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> drgondog
> Who was banned by Gentile?


Brainfart Typo - Blakeslee banned Gentile.

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## Peter Gunn (Mar 28, 2022)

drgondog said:


> Brainfart Typo - Blakeslee banned Gentile.


Like a good wingman I covered your six on that one, no sweat, also, no charge.

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 29, 2022)

354th Fighter Squadron P-51 Landing in UK after Raid in France


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 29, 2022)

354th Fighter Squadron " My Pet " Nose Art P-51 Mustang Dragon














WWII B&W Photo 354th Fighter Squadron "My Pet" Nose Art P-51 Mustang Dragon | eBay


About 4 5/8” x 3.25”.



www.ebay.com

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## drgondog (Mar 29, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> 354th Fighter Squadron P-51 Landing in UK after Raid in France
> 
> View attachment 662999
> 
> ...


I suspect that image was captured within 2+ weeks of D-Day, as the 354th moved to the continent, staging from the 18th through the 23rd. Looks like a Malcolm Hood equipped Mustang.

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## Wurger (Mar 29, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Mar 30, 2022)

drgondog
also one of the last 200 modified with 85 gal fuselage tank, and denoted at the Buffalo Depot as P-51B-7-NA with white 'cg' 6x6 inch cross to so identify it. ?



















Original Photo lot 2 52nd Fighter Group 5th Squadron P-51 nose art 3 kills pilot | eBay


The first photo shows the side of the Mustang with the nose art 'Lil Bets' and Lt. I. P. Franklin, as well as 3 German kill markings. The other photo shows a GI standing in front of a Mustang. On the back of the photos is written Lt. Franklin's Lil Bets and on the other Koss & P-51.



www.ebay.com

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 30, 2022)

AAF 233 Photo Album 10th Air Force Miss Viginia tail number 13 (2x) 1st Air Commandos














Original AAF 233 Photo Album 10th Air Force FIGHTERS BOMBERS GLIDERS Burma CBI | eBay


<p>ORIGINAL WWII PHOTOS - NOT COPIES, SCANS, OR REPROS </p> <p>QUANTITY: 1 Album With 233 Photos - See the other original WWII Manuals and WWI & WWII photos that I have listed. </p> <p>ITEM: Original WWII Photo Album - 10th AAF COMBAT CAMERA UNIT in CHINA, INDIA, BURMA, 1943-1945 - Photo album...



www.ebay.com

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 30, 2022)

10th Air Force 1st Air Commandos rocket tubes 3 bladed propellor

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 30, 2022)

389
p-38 , p-47 p-40 p-39 p-51














WWII 8x10 Photo AAF P-38 P-47 P-40 P-39 P-51 FIGHTERS Side-By-Side IN FLIGHT 110 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for WWII 8x10 Photo AAF P-38 P-47 P-40 P-39 P-51 FIGHTERS Side-By-Side IN FLIGHT 110 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Mar 30, 2022)




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## drgondog (Mar 30, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> drgondog
> also one of the last 200 modified with 85 gal fuselage tank, and denoted at the Buffalo Depot as P-51B-7-NA with white 'cg' 6x6 inch cross to so identify it. ?
> 
> View attachment 663097
> ...


Can't read serial number. Two considerations. NMF which would place a last run B-5-NA and all B-10. If serial number is late block P-51B-5 in 43-71XX range (mid jan delivery) then Buffalo was the Mod center for east bound Mustangs. Long Beach was site for many west bound.

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## special ed (Mar 30, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> 389
> p-38 , p-47 p-40 p-39 p-51
> 
> View attachment 663107
> ...


I notice the top three are on the verge of a stall while the Gropundhog is flat out keeping up with the 51.

Just a joke son, just a joke.

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## special ed (Mar 30, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> 10th Air Force 1st Air Commandos rocket tubes 3 bladed propellor
> 
> View attachment 663106


At a senior Civil Air Patrol meeting, which included some WW2 pilots, a 16mm B&W movie was brought by a guest who had served with AAC just after AVG disbanded. The old long nose P-40C was used with these type of 3 tubes under each wing for ground attack. Very impressive movie of very low altitude practice firing rockets.


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 30, 2022)

special ed said:


> Gropundhog


Thats the best description of it, you son of Caiden.

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## Peter Gunn (Mar 30, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> 389
> p-38 , p-47 p-40 p-39 p-51
> 
> View attachment 663107
> ...


To my educated fanboy eye, the four punters are grouped together (and appropriately, two steps behind) whilst the thoroughbred Mustang has decided to separate itself from the riff-raff...

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## fubar57 (Mar 31, 2022)

"LIFE", Sept 01, 1941

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## nuuumannn (Mar 31, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


>



"All together now... 'One of these things is not like the other...'"

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 31, 2022)

P-51 ILL Winds 354th Fighter Squadron

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## Wurger (Mar 31, 2022)




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## drgondog (Mar 31, 2022)

fubar57 said:


> "LIFE", Sept 01, 1941
> 
> View attachment 663155
> 
> View attachment 663157​


Nuthin' like depicting the NA-73X with round windscreen and short carb duct as 'Apache' - before BPC/BAM formally requested "Mustang'.

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## SaparotRob (Mar 31, 2022)

Are you saying Life Magazine is not a superior source of info to NAA/BPC/USAAF records?

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## drgondog (Mar 31, 2022)

SaparotRob said:


> Are you saying Life Magazine is not a superior source of info to NAA/BPC/USAAF records?


Not really - it is an Allison Ad. What is interesting is a.) as of September 1, 1941, the depicted 'Mustang' as all NA-73 were so deemed by Brits/NAA was the retired NA-73X, and b.) currently delivered NA-73 #1 through #6 had flat windshields and long carb scoop.

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## SaparotRob (Mar 31, 2022)

Cool.


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## ColFord (Mar 31, 2022)

drgondog said:


> Not really - it is an Allison Ad. What is interesting is a.) as of September 1, 1941, the depicted 'Mustang' as all NA-73 were so deemed by Brits/NAA was the retired NA-73X, and b.) currently delivered NA-73 #1 through #6 had flat windshields and long carb scoop.


And to reinforce that, it was only in September-October 1941 that the similar advert by NAA showing an aircraft in similar stylised representation and closest in configuration to NA-73X or very early NA-73 (with short carb scoop pre mod) appeared in a targetted advert placement in two US aviation magazines pushing the type for the USAAC. Makes me start to think that there was some higher level corporate marketing department pressure coming from higher up the corporate structure of both NAA and Allison from their parent company G-M, to push both the type and the proposed name for a USAAC variant. The coincidence in timing, style and use of the "A" name would lend credence to some level of communication and coordination regarding the advertising. Annoying part is, I don't think marketing department memos from that period would be high on the agenda for archiving and retention for any of the three bodies involved - NAA, Allison & G-M.

This version of the advert (attached) also dates from September-October 1941 and is from a US aviation magazine. In later Allison engine adverts that were published later in 1941 and into early 1942 promoting the Allison V-12 engine and the aircraft it was being used in, the advert did give both RAF and US names in some instances - so for P-51 showed both Mustang and Apache, P-40 Warhawk and Kittyhawk, etc.

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## Snautzer01 (Apr 4, 2022)

Correlation of the drag characteristics of a P-51B 43-1211 , 32 pages

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## drgondog (Apr 4, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> Correlation of the drag characteristics of a P-51B 43-1211 , 32 pages
> 
> View attachment 663650


These are flight test analysis data and reports to compare to wind tunnel testing for 43-12105, which stayed at NACA Langley for 'tall tail and dorsal fin testing.


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 5, 2022)

white cross

from fold3: June 1944: LTC Chester L. Sluder (R), commander of the 325th FG, "makes nice" with Soviets at Piryatin. the 325th flew their first shuttle mission that day, with 42 of their ground support personnel being flown as crew members aboard the B-17s they had escorted, one per aircaft replacing a regular crewman. One B-17 was lost over the target, the marshalling yards at Debreczen, Hungary. 325th crew chief SSGT Austin J. Cronin went down with this ship.














Page 1 WWII US Air Force Photos


This series of photos documents an important era in US military aviation history, especially activities of the US Air Force during World War II.




www.fold3.com

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## Wurger (Apr 5, 2022)




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## drgondog (Apr 5, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> white cross
> 
> from fold3: June 1944: LTC Chester L. Sluder (R), commander of the 325th FG, "makes nice" with Soviets at Piryatin. the 325th flew their first shuttle mission that day, with 42 of their ground support personnel being flown as crew members aboard the B-17s they had escorted, one per aircaft replacing a regular crewman. One B-17 was lost over the target, the marshalling yards at Debreczen, Hungary. 325th crew chief SSGT Austin J. Cronin went down with this ship.
> 
> ...


The 325th provided escort for the 1st Shuttle Mission. I think Col Sluder, CO of 325th led them. My father (center) Deputy Gp CO of the 355th led the last one (Frantic VII) to drop supplies into Warsaw to the Resistance. The 355th landed at Piryatin, the photo was taken at Mirgorod - where dad flew in to get briefing for next day mission and leg to Foggia, Italy. The US pilot on the left is the Deputy Mission CO for the 13th BW but I don't have his name.

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## Gnomey (Apr 7, 2022)

Good shots!


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## gkjl (Apr 13, 2022)

P-51B/C/D, 75th FS, 23rd FG, Chiehkiang China 














1943 Pilot officers with their P-40s Lot of 4 Photographs Chiehkiang China | eBay

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## gkjl (Apr 13, 2022)

Capt Sam Dance P-51 ship before being shot down and killed over Hengyang, China



1943 Capt Sam Dance P-51 ship before being shot down and killed over Hengyang | eBay

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## GTX (Apr 15, 2022)




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## Howard Gibson (Apr 16, 2022)

GTX said:


> View attachment 664896


Those swastikas are pre-war. If you are going to Photoshop, at least get the markings right.


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## special ed (Apr 16, 2022)

These P-51s were painted for a post war movie as Bf 109 stand ins. Hollywood thinks no one knows the difference.

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## Wurger (Apr 16, 2022)

Yep the movie is "Fighter Squadron," a 1948 Raoul Walsh film.





the source: 





Captured Aircraft


Wow did they really capture that many???? yep, they had quite a few Allied aircraft, especially with Zircus Rosarius and Kg200. If you want to have a good read about captured aircraft, look for: "Luftwaffe test pilot: Flying captured Allied aircraft of World War 2" by Hans-Werner Lerche



ww2aircraft.net












Fighter Squadron - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## SaparotRob (Apr 16, 2022)

Wurger said:


> Yep the movie is "Fighter Squadron," a 1948 Raoul Walsh film.
> 
> View attachment 665011
> 
> ...


Is that the movie with the actor who played Jimmy Olson in the Superman tv show?


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## Wurger (Apr 16, 2022)

To be honest I haven't watched the show. So I can't say if you are right. Perhaps you could be.

A couple of screenshots more ...

















the source:


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## special ed (Apr 16, 2022)

My fading memory recalls the ground shots were using P-47Ds from the Puerto Rican ANG painted to resemble the P-47s from a wartime P-47 documentary. The gun camera shots are apparently whatever they could find. The P-47 combat flying footage is from the mentioned wartime documentary.

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## Peter Gunn (Apr 17, 2022)

I remember reading where Walsh actually wanted to use Mustangs but the ANG Thunderbolts were available for less $$$ so he went with them.

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## Snautzer01 (Apr 18, 2022)

Shark mouth RAF




















Org. Photo: British RAF P-51 Fighter Plane w/ Sharks Mouth Parked on Airfield!!! | eBay


Should you have an issue with any item sold I am of course open to communication to rectify any issues. Take care. DO NOT DUPLICATE OR COPY!



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## Snautzer01 (Apr 18, 2022)

Org. Photo: British RAF P-51 Mustang Fighter Plane on Airfield!!! | eBay


Should you have an issue with any item sold I am of course open to communication to rectify any issues. Take care. DO NOT DUPLICATE OR COPY!



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## Wurger (Apr 18, 2022)




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## fubar57 (Apr 18, 2022)

What is Morgan leaning on is what I want to know


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 18, 2022)

fubar57 said:


> What is Morgan leaning on is what I want to know


Yes i do too early rocket rails?


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## Peanuts (Apr 18, 2022)

Hi
Those are not early rocket rails they are late rocket rails. In the RAF jargon RPV ie Rocket Projector 5. the key issue was that the hardware/structure was jettisonable. They were first fitted to 260 Sqn in Italy in February 1945 and those aircraft were transferred to 250 Sqn after the end of the war. If the photo of Morgan was taken at the same time as the photo of the Sharkmouth Mk IV then it is most likely that this is a 250 Sqn aircraft.
Steve

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## Peanuts (Apr 18, 2022)

Check this out ROYAL AIR FORCE: ITALY, THE BALKANS AND SOUTH-EAST EUROPE, 1942-1945.

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## fubar57 (Apr 18, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> Shark mouth RAF
> 
> View attachment 665119
> 
> ...


KH was 403 Squadron (RCAF) codes. Weren't these added under the wings after the war?


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## junkman3353 (Apr 18, 2022)

fubar57 said:


> KH was 403 Squadron (RCAF) codes. Weren't these added under the wings after the war?


2 things. (#1) Yes, the RAF applied the serial codes to the underside of aircraft wings after the war. Likely for the same reason the USAAF did-for civilians to be able to ID planes being flown too low. Squadron and plane codes in Europe and the UK, last 6 of the serial number in the US. Later that was changed to the "buzz number" system (FF-*** for Mustangs) in the US and elsewhere. But (#2) what you see here is the RAF serial not the squadron code. The RAF had 450 Mustangs of various models that were listed with a "KH" prefix. RAF Aircraft Serial Numbers Database What the photo doesn't show is the 3 digit remainder of the RAF serial number which was likely painted between the fuselage and the fuel tank/bomb mounting under the left wing.

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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 18, 2022)

Took this today after I went flying





Your browser is not able to display this video.

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## fubar57 (Apr 18, 2022)

junkman3353 said:


> 2 things. (#1) Yes, the RAF applied the serial codes to the underside of aircraft wings after the war. Likely for the same reason the USAAF did-for civilians to be able to ID planes being flown too low. Squadron and plane codes in Europe and the UK, last 6 of the serial number in the US. Later that was changed to the "buzz number" system (FF-*** for Mustangs) in the US and elsewhere. But (#2) what you see here is the RAF serial not the squadron code. The RAF had 450 Mustangs of various models that were listed with a "KH" prefix. RAF Aircraft Serial Numbers Database What the photo doesn't show is the 3 digit remainder of the RAF serial number which was likely painted between the fuselage and the fuel tank/bomb mounting under the left wing.


I erred, serial number, not squadron code


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## Peter Gunn (Apr 19, 2022)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Took this today after I went flying
> 
> View attachment 665188


Joe you just made my morning. 

Man that engine sound...

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## Gnomey (Apr 21, 2022)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 23, 2022)

530thFS 311stFG 14thAF PENNY P-51C-10-NT 42-103903




















Original Photograph P-51 Mustang nose art PENNY ace 311th Fighter Group CBI | eBay


Arasmith was an ace, shooting down 5 Japanese aircraft. You can see the kill markings near the cockpit in this shot. Belonged to the 530th Fighter Squadron, 311th Fighter Group. I n good condition and great shot of a well known P-51.



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## Snautzer01 (Apr 23, 2022)

P-51A A-36 Mustang AX'S H???














Original Photograph P-51A A-36 Mustang nose art named Pin Up USAAF | eBay


I n good condition.



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## Snautzer01 (Apr 23, 2022)

311th's 530th Fighter Squadron Yellow Scorpions scoreboard kills

left 88 kills 517 train right 136 kills



















Original Photograph 530th Fighter Squadron scoreboard Japanese kills sign P-51's | eBay


Very clear and i n good condition.



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## Wurger (Apr 23, 2022)




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## gkjl (Apr 23, 2022)

Original Photograph P-51 Mustang nose art YANKEE TRAVELER 311th Fighter Group | eBay

"YANKEE TRAVELER" 529th Fighter Squadron, 311th Fighter Group, 14th AF.


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## Wurger (Apr 23, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Apr 25, 2022)

1943 P-51 Cooler Change at ChiehKiang China















1943 P-51 Cooler Change at ChiehKiang China Original photograph | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1943 P-51 Cooler Change at ChiehKiang China Original photograph at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Apr 25, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (May 2, 2022)

Baugher P-51 P-51D-15-NA 479th FG, 434th FS, 8th AF) crashed from unknown cause at Bonn, Germany Dec 25, 1944. MACR 11178. Pilot KIA
American air museum.com Wendell H Marlowe Killed in Action (KIA) near Bonn in P-51 'Swanee, Jr' 44-15325.






*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang "SWANEE Jr." in Combat 434th F.S. KIA~ Excellent Large Pic | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (May 2, 2022)

W-VX Shady lady, 109th TRS, 67th TRG Pilot Lt. Slonneger, Crew Chief S/Stg Dalek Serial number: 44-14699 (P51-D converted for Tactical-photo reconnaissance

Clifford J Slonneger | American Air Museum in Britain Lt. Slonneger was killed instantly in a flight maneuvers crash at 10,000 feet near Atlanta, Georgia. In Europe during World War II, he flew with the 109th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron, 9th Air Force. He was a P-51 pilot, veteran of 54 missions over Germany. He had decided to remain in service and had applied for additional overseas duty. He received the Distinguished Flying Cross and Air Medal with five clusters.

P-51D-10-NA 44-14699 ( F-6K , MSN 109-28332) to Swiss AF in 1948 as J-2093














*PHOTO* P-51 (F-6D) Mustang in Combat 109th TRS 67th TRG ~ Excellent Large Pic | eBay


A great inflight shot of P-51 Mustang (44-14699) "Shady Lady" in combat ~ I.D.ed to the 109th Tactical Recon Squadron 67th TRG -. Mustang P-51 - F-6D Shady lady, 109th TRS, 67th TRG Pilot Lt. Slonneger, Crew Chief S/Stg Dalek Serial number: 44-14699 (P51-D converted for Tactical-photo...



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## Wurger (May 2, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (May 4, 2022)

11-11-1944 Saturday

*



*















WWII PHOTO - POLICEMAN IN KARACHI INDIA DIRECTS P-51 MUSTANGS IN TRAFFIC 1944 | eBay


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## Wurger (May 4, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (May 6, 2022)

P-51D-25-NA 44-73060 Dove of Peace VIII 353rd Fighter Group ETO















*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang "DOVE OF PEACE" - 353rd Fighter Group ETO | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *PHOTO* P-51 Mustang "DOVE OF PEACE" - 353rd Fighter Group ETO at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (May 6, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (May 6, 2022)

P-51D-10-NA 44-14087 PZ-M Blue Noser - 352nd Fighter Group ETO














*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang (44-14087) Blue Noser - 352nd Fighter Group ETO | eBay


A nice shot of P-51 Mustang (44-14087) from the 352nd Fighter Group 8th Air Force ETO - Blue Nose Bastards of Bodney.



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## Wurger (May 6, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (May 9, 2022)

FF-131 

Other plane in line tail 45-11448 P-51D-25-NT





Forgotten Props - A Warbirds Resource Group Site


Forgotten Props is tasked with tracking the service histories of all propellor driven military aircraft.




www.forgottenprops.warbirdsresourcegroup.org




*1948: USAF 3525th PTW.
*Converted to TF-51D.
*1951: USAF 3615th PTW. 














WW2 WWII US Army Air Force USAAF Airplane Bomber Plane Nose Art Photo Pinup Girl | eBay


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## Wurger (May 9, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (May 11, 2022)

_Seller
This is a vintage original snapshot photograph of "Spirit of Universal," a P-51A mustang fighter aircraft presented by the workers of Universal Engineering Company of Frankenmuth, Michigan to the USAAF during WW2. The aircraft went on to have a distinguished service history; fighter ace Captain James John England recorded at least 3 kills in this particular airplane, and perhaps as many as eight. (The final photo is an excerpt from a book entitled "Mustang and Thunderbolt Aces of the Pacific and CBI by John Stanaway-the book is not included in this auction.) Photo measures 3.75" x 4.75", has some creasing, overall good condition.



"This P-51A was purchased by donations amounting to $50,000 (not War Bonds) from employees of Universal Engineering Company at Frankenmuth, Michigan and dedicated in May 1943.The programme was begun in October 1942 by the German-American community that felt the need to prove their loyalty to a nation, they felt, was hostile to them at that time. It began with a $10,000 donation from the company itself and a further $8000 from the Board and management. By November, 400+ employees had pledged $1,00 per week to the drive, raising $41,000 more.The company newspaper announced that, to their knowledge, this was the first time a company and its employees had made outright donations to buy a piece of military equipment.


By April, $50,000 had been pledged and cheque was sent to the USAAC in Washington DC. On Sunday 2nd May 1943, employees and their families gathered at Harry Brown airport to christen their P51 Mustang fighter. The fighter was dedicated to Rusty Meffert, a plant superintendent, who died shortly before the ceremony. After flying over the assembled crowd and performing a few aerial manouevres, the Mustang departed to be assigned to the CBI theatre of operations with 350th Squadron of 311st Fighter Group.


The original dedication titling applied to both sides of the P51 was, according to regulations, painted out before going overseas. Once with the 350FS (known as The Yellow Scorpions), it was assigned to the squadron leader Capt (later Major) James England who christened it a second time with the name of Jackie in honour of his wife and had that painted on both sides of the nose in a white script. On the port side, Capt England's name was painted below the cockpit along with a yellow prop spinner (the squadron identifier). Crew chief for the plane was Eugene (Sam) Crawford, assisted by SSgt Francis Goering.


While serving in Burma, the plane accrued a total of eight Japanese planes shot down with Maj England in control. It is believed to have completed more than 100 combat sorties, 600 flying hours, received two new wing tips, two new gas tanks, stress plate, an engine change, several replacement canopies and numerous other parts. In one engagement it took hits by more than 50 bullets and was finally declared unserviceable and stripped for parts." - from USAAF Nose Art Research Project_
























Vintage Photo P-51 Mustang airplane Spirit of Universal WW2 Frankenmuth Michigan | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Vintage Photo P-51 Mustang airplane Spirit of Universal WW2 Frankenmuth Michigan at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (May 11, 2022)




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## GTX (May 11, 2022)



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## SaparotRob (May 11, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (May 12, 2022)

RAF Mustang Mk.I Thanks 

 ColFord


AG422 ?














WWII: NORTH AMERICAN RAF MUSTANG MK.IA (F-6A) ORIGINAL RAF PHOTOGRAPH W/ STAMP | eBay


ORIGINAL RAF PHOTOGRAPH W/ STAMP.



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## Wurger (May 12, 2022)




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## ColFord (May 14, 2022)

North American NA-73 Mustang Mk.I, AG422, photographed at Air Fighting Development Unit in early to mid 1942. Was one of the early Mustang Mk.I received by the RAF and assigned to AFDU for them to evaluate and the photo was one of a number that was taken to accompany and illustrate the report by AFDU on the type. Part of the work done by AFDU using AG422 was to contribute to the preparation of the AP2025A Pilot's Notes for the Mustang Mk.I. This was the Mustang Mk.I flown by Ronnie Harker of Rolls-Royce at AFDU Duxford on or about 30 April 1942, which led to him writing the report recommending the investigation of the combining of the Roll-Royce Merlin engine with the Mustang airframe. The preliminary study was completed by 14 July 1942 and that set the wheels in motion so to speak. 

AG422 after being used by AFDU went on to serve operationally with No.IV(AC) Squadron RAF, where it was lost on operations over the Netherlands on 7 July 1943. 

The photos taken of AG422 which were for use with the report written by AFDU ended up being used in a number of other RAF publications where a stock image was required of the Mustang, and it was also a photo that was more widely available during the war with copies being able to be purchased - I have seen copies of this photo of various sizes and quality of paper used for the print either in the photo collection of, or stuck in the log books of pilots who flew the Mustang Mk.I with the RAF - often in context as an illustration of a 'typical' Mustang Mk.I used to mark their introduction to the type either at OTU on on an operational Squadron. Original photos - or first generation copies from original negatives, still with the AFDU report in files in UK Archives, also 'copies' - good early generation ones - in collections of IWM London and RAF Museum Hendon.

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## Gnomey (May 17, 2022)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (May 18, 2022)

Baugher P-51K-5-NT 44-11624 
SX-M 44-11624 "Donna-Mite" flown by Lt. Leroy O. Pletz UPL 38123 | American Air Museum in Britain















*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang "DONNA-MITE" - 353rd Fighter Group ETO | eBay


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## Wurger (May 18, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (May 21, 2022)

P-51B/C Mustangs Being Delivered to the ETO on British Aircraft Carrier 01-02-1944 Tuesday



















*PHOTO* P-51B/C Mustangs Being Delivered to the ETO on British Aircraft Carrier | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (May 21, 2022)

Baugher P-51B-15-NA 42-106767 QP-E (334th FS, 4th FG, 8th AF) hit by AAA while attacking a flak tower at St Dizier airvield, France and crashed 1 km NE of Putterville, 35 km WS of St Dizier, France May 9, 1944. MACR 4685. Pilot bailed out and became POW.



http://www.4thfightergroupassociation.org/uploads/8/2/0/3/8203817/334_blanchfieldhjweb_a.pdf
















*PHOTO* P-51B/C Mustang (42-106767) ~ 4th Fighter Group ETO | eBay


A nice shot of P-51B Mustang (42-106767) in combat ~ I.D.ed to the the 334th Fighter Squadron 4th Fighter Group ETO - flown by Capt. Herbert Blanchfield.



www.ebay.com










Capt Herbert Blanchfield of the 334th Fighter Squadron claimed 4.333 strafing kills within days of receiving this P-51B in early April 1944 42-106767 | American Air Museum in Britain

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## Snautzer01 (May 21, 2022)

P-51B/C Mustang Shark Mouth - 51st Fighter Group ~ China Burma India














*PHOTO* P-51B/C Mustang Shark Mouth - 51st Fighter Group ~ China Burma India | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *PHOTO* P-51B/C Mustang Shark Mouth - 51st Fighter Group ~ China Burma India at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (May 21, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (May 21, 2022)

Baugher P-51D-10-NA 44-14659 N5-X Genie
Seller (F-6D) Photo Recon Mustang (44-14659) in Combat - 111th TRS














*PHOTO* P-51 (F-6D) Photo Recon Mustang (44-14659) in Combat - 111th TRS | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *PHOTO* P-51 (F-6D) Photo Recon Mustang (44-14659) in Combat - 111th TRS at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (May 21, 2022)




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## GTX (May 21, 2022)

Many other phots can be found here:



GEOFF GOODALL'S AVIATION HISTORY SITE


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## Snautzer01 (May 22, 2022)

RAAF














*PHOTO* RAAF P-51 Mustang Fighter in Service - Excellent | eBay


A nice shot of RAAF P-51 Mustang in flight.



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## Snautzer01 (May 22, 2022)

The origin of the confusion about the Apache name is solved 














*PHOTO* Tuskegee P-51B/C Mustang "APACHE" in Service - 332nd FG | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *PHOTO* Tuskegee P-51B/C Mustang "APACHE" in Service - 332nd FG at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Snautzer01 (May 22, 2022)

RAAF














*PHOTO* RAAF P-51 Mustang Fighter in Service - Excellent | eBay


A nice shot of RAAF P-51 Mustang in service.



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## Wurger (May 22, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (May 29, 2022)

Little Jeep Flying Tigers Tsingchen China














Lot of 7 1943 Assorted Post Flying Tigers Tsingchen China Original photographs | eBay


P 51 AND P 40 IMAGES.



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## Wurger (May 29, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (May 30, 2022)

Likely P-51D-5-NA 44-13533 ' We Three ' 'Eileen 1st' Coded PE-U D-Day stripes














P-51 MUSTANG FIGHTER BOMBER " WE THREE " ORIG WW2 1943 NOSE ART SNAPSHOT PHOTO | eBay


ORIGINAL 1943 vintage snapshot photograph of a P-51 Mustang Fighter Plane with Crew, Nose Art; "WE THREE" Pencil noted on the reverse; "1943" snapshot photo measures: 2 - 3/8 in. x 3 - 3/8 in. Condition: Original snapshot photograph in excellent vintage condition with no stains, tears or...



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## Wurger (May 30, 2022)




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## junkman3353 (Jun 2, 2022)

May I offer that "We Three" is in fact an F-6K 44-12822 assigned to the 110th TRS/71st TRG and what are mentioned as "D-Day stripes" are in fact 5th AF ID stripes applied at the time of the Philippines Invasion and retained well into 1946. Those stripes are far wider than the nominal 18" width for D-Day stripes.

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## Gnomey (Jun 5, 2022)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 13, 2022)

8th AAF P51 fighter plane on air field, England 1944















A25, 8th AAF P51 fighter plane on air field, England 1944 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for A25, 8th AAF P51 fighter plane on air field, England 1944 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Snautzer01 (Jun 13, 2022)

8th AAF P51 fighter plane on air field, England 1944














A26, 8th AAF P51 fighter plane on air field, England 1944 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for A26, 8th AAF P51 fighter plane on air field, England 1944 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Snautzer01 (Jun 13, 2022)

Airpower 8th AAF P51 fighter planes on air field, aerial shot.















A24, 8th AAF P51 fighter planes on air field, aerial shot. | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for A24, 8th AAF P51 fighter planes on air field, aerial shot. at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Jun 13, 2022)




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## Gnomey (Jun 13, 2022)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 17, 2022)

P-51D-5-NA 44-13676 LIL BUNYEP
Baugher 374th FS, 361st FG) crashlanded at RAF Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England Nov 26, 1944. Pilot survived, aircraft badly damaged, unknown if repaired.











Bottisham Airfield Museum UPL 17881 | American Air Museum in Britain
Bottisham Airfield Museum UPL 17888 | American Air Museum in Britain
A P-51D Mustang of the 374th Fighter Squadron, B7-Z 'Kay's Kite' serial no. 44-13676, taken somewhere over Essex probably early 1945. Assigned to Capt. Lucius G LaCroix, a former 5th Air Force pilot who came to the group in later 1944.
Four ship formation of P-51D Mustangs over Essex, late 1944/ early '45. Practice formation led by P-51 B7-Ø 'Darlin Dora' serial no. 44-14957 aircraft of Lt. Wayne L. Moore. Second plane 'Kay's Kite' B7-Z serial no. 44-13676 assigned to Capt. Lucius G LaCroix














*WWII photo- 361st FG- P 51 Fighter plane Crash- Nose Art - LIL BUNYEP (413676)* | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *WWII photo- 361st FG- P 51 Fighter plane Crash- Nose Art - LIL BUNYEP (413676)* at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Jun 17, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Jun 27, 2022)

Crashed Korean ROK Air Force NAA F-51 Mustang, 1950s














Original Slide, Crashed Korean ROK Air Force NAA F-51 Mustang, 1950s | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Original Slide, Crashed Korean ROK Air Force NAA F-51 Mustang, 1950s at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Jun 28, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Jun 30, 2022)

Little Sir Echo II Lt.Col.Russ Berg. UK, August 1944. This F-6A was assigned to the 107th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron and flown by Lt Col Russ Berg over Normandy during the summer of 1944














USAAF P-51 Mustang nose-art photograph


Approximately 12 x 9.5cm. A good clear image of the nose/cockpit of a P-51 Mustang fighter named 'Little Sir Echo II'. The pilot, Lt. Colonel Berg stands adjacent to it in his A-2 flying jacket and 1941 pattern Mae West and appears to be holding an early pattern C-type and A-14 oxygen mask...




www.historicflyingclothing.com

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## Snautzer01 (Jun 30, 2022)

Dear Mom , Margie

1st Lieutenant Lloyd Richard Babcock Jr. D.F.C., Air Medal with 4 oakleaf clusters, who flew A-36 Mustang Invaders and P-47 Thunderbolts with the 526th Fighter Bomber Squadron, 86th Fighter Group, 12th AAF. Babcock flew over 122 missions, mainly in Italy, Corsica and France, many as flight leader. His last 28 missions were flown in Germany. He gave three of his aircraft the same name, 'Betsy D'



























































USAAF 12th AAF fighter pilot's photos/paperwork


Photographs and press cuttings relating to 1st Lieutenant Lloyd Richard Babcock Jr. D.F.C., Air Medal with 4 oakleaf clusters, who flew A-36 Mustang Invaders and P-47 Thunderbolts with the 526th Fighter Bomber Squadron, 86th Fighter Group, 12th AAF. Babcock flew over 122 missions, mainly in...




www.historicflyingclothing.com

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## Crimea_River (Jun 30, 2022)

A shame that people want to sell such keepsakes on ebay.

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## special ed (Jun 30, 2022)

Or throw them out. When a friend and I haunted the last open air burning dump near New Orleans, I found a scrap album kept obviously by a Marine's mother. News paper clippings of his unit making practice landing on the Lake Ponchartrain seawall, his detachment being the first U.S. military to Iceland, and his eventual return from the Pacific with a permission for a souvenir Japanese blanket. The album has been either lost or hopefully misplaced following hurricane Katrina.

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 5, 2022)

P-51D-25-NA 44-73776

119th NCB- US Seabee & P 51 Fighter plane Nose Art- CESS' GUN MOLL















*WWII photo- 119th NCB- US Seabee & P 51 Fighter plane Nose Art- CESS' GUN MOLL* | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *WWII photo- 119th NCB- US Seabee & P 51 Fighter plane Nose Art- CESS' GUN MOLL* at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Jul 5, 2022)




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## Gnomey (Jul 6, 2022)

Good shots!


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## JeeBee (Jul 7, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> Original WW2 Flying Tigers P-51 Mustang Photos CBI Theatre Rare Pictures | eBay
> 
> View attachment 604886
> 
> ...


26th FS P-51C line-up 51stFG.

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## Snautzer01 (Jul 12, 2022)

GN-A GN-S RAF
























Vintage Military Aviation Planes Photograph Black And White Framed | eBay


<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Vintage Military Aviation Planes Photograph Black And White Framed. If you should have any questions prior to buying, please do not hesitate to contact me. Please review and enhance the photos as they are part of the description. Payment is...



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## Wurger (Jul 12, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Jul 13, 2022)

Visiting Perry air field















Org. Photo: P-51 Fighter Plane Parked on Airfield!!! | eBay


Should you have an issue with any item sold I am of course open to communication to rectify any issues. Take care. DO NOT DUPLICATE OR COPY!



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## Wurger (Jul 13, 2022)




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## Peanuts (Jul 13, 2022)

GN-A and GN-S are 249 Sqn RAF which flew Mustangs with the Balkan Air Force. The BAF was based in Italy (mostly at Biferno) but operated over Greece and mainly Yugoslavia in support of the Partisans. GN-A clearly has a replacement canopy it may be HB928 ...

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## Bozothenutter (Jul 28, 2022)

been scrolling through this thread all day....
looking for pics of one of the two XP-51B prototypes, the final one with the eventual rad intake.
Seeing if I can merge the Ac Min P-51 with the nose and intake of the Acc Min P-51B. Going well so far, but need to sweat the details.
I think what I have is all there is, but never hurts to ask.
I have a few of the Ames wind tunnel set, but would love higher res items.
Didn't NA do walkaround shots of all the aircraft on the apron?, I only have low res side shots, nothing else.


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## Snautzer01 (Jul 29, 2022)

Detriot Miss 7 kills














LARGE ORIGINAL WW2 PRESS PHOTO NORTH AMERICAN MUSTANG P-51 DETROIT MISS 25x20cm | eBay


<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">LARGE ORIGINAL WW2 PRESS PHOTO NORTH AMERICAN MUSTANG P-51 "DETROIT MISS"</p> <br> <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Size 25 X 20 cm.</p> <br> <p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Condition is fair to good -...



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## Wurger (Jul 29, 2022)




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## stug3 (Aug 2, 2022)

P-51D exploded view

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## stug3 (Aug 2, 2022)

P-51D 46th FS, 21st FG
Iwo Jima April 1945

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## jgreiner (Aug 2, 2022)

stug3 said:


> P-51D 46th FS, 21st FG
> Iwo Jima April 1945
> View attachment 680316


I'd guess an aborted takeoff as the VLR tanks are still on the hard points. Pretty damn lucky they didn't blow.

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## Gnomey (Aug 4, 2022)

Good shots!

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 6, 2022)

Technical drawings 


North American Aviation P-51D-Mustang Drawings - Frames 0001-0100
North American Aviation P-51D-Mustang Drawings - Frames 0101-0200
North American Aviation P-51D-Mustang Drawings - Frames 0301-0400
North American Aviation P-51D-Mustang Drawings - Frames 0401-0522 Except 435, 442
North American Aviation P-51D-Mustang Drawings - Decals
North American Aviation P-51D-Mustang Drawings - Lines
North American Aviation P-51D-Mustang Drawings - Sections

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 7, 2022)

P-51D-25-NA 44-73809 Bonnie tailcode 30 1948: USAF 7th FS (49th FG). 1949: USAF 40th FS (35th FG). Tachikawa airbase Tokyo



















*WWII photo- P 51 Mustang Fighter plane Nose Art - BONNIE (473809)* | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *WWII photo- P 51 Mustang Fighter plane Nose Art - BONNIE (473809)* at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Aug 7, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Aug 8, 2022)

AG345 (?)














Original WW2 real photograph postcard RAF fighter and Bomber aircraft | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Original WW2 real photograph postcard RAF fighter and Bomber aircraft at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Aug 8, 2022)

IMHO yes, she is ..





the source: 43-12093 Archives - This Day in Aviation

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 9, 2022)

AM208 RAF

_The second Mustang X conversion was AM208 which made its first flight on 13Nov42 and was also fitted with a Merlin 65 driving a 10ft 9in diameter screw. It had the main radiator front flap permanently fixed and sealed as originally applied to an Allison-engined Mustang showing a 6-7mph speed increase as a result._
_It was this mod that finally made it possible for a Merlin 65-powered Mustang to attain 427mph at 21,000ft in FS gear, vindicating the whole idea of fitting the Merlin. Performance trials with AM208 at A&AEE Boscombe Down culminated in Apr43 with max true airspeeds of 406mph at 10,000ft in MS gear and 433mph at 22,000ft in FS gear at the combat rating of 18lb/sq in boost._
_The radiator front flap mod had resulted in a top speed increase of 11mph over AL975 without this feature. AM208 and the three subsequent conversions did not feature the slight bulge in the lower engine cowling that AL975 had in it original form. After the speed tests another Merlin 65 was fitted to AM208 in place of its original powerplant and climb trials were undertaken, these showed a rate of climb of 3,650ft/min at 7,500ft in MS gear and 2,840ft/min at 19,000ft in FS gear, the time to reach 20,000ft being 6.3 minutes._
_Meredith Effect and the P-51_














R.A.F: NORTH AMERICAN MUSTANG MERLIN X CONVERSION B&W PHOTOGRAPH | eBay


B&W PHOTOGRAPH.



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## Wurger (Aug 9, 2022)




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## stug3 (Aug 9, 2022)

P-51C-10-NT
503RD FS, 339TH FG, 8TH AF

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 10, 2022)

WWII USAAF Army Air Forces Pilot's Flight Log P-51 Mustang 4 Kills 'Col. Hudson'

Wonderful Original WWII USAAF Army Air Forces Pilot's Flight Log P-51 Mustang Pilot 'Colonel William Hudson' of Union City, Tennessee (b. Dec 31 1922 - d. Oct 24 2007) accompanied with four original photo negatives & 4 prints recently produced from those negatives (8x10 glossy); as well as, one of Colonel Will "Ikey" Hudson's Pilot Training Books 'Take Off' Official Handbook of the Corps of Aviation Cadets, Maxwell Field, Alabama. Col. Hudson's Pilot's Flight Log book includes, in addition to his training history, numerous missions flying a North American Aviation P-51 Mustang over the European Theater in 1945 including: France, Dortmund, Hamburg, Hannover, Berlin, Dresden, Leitz, Kiel, Munich, Koln, Dresden Sweep, Berlin Sweep, and others. The following is a small excerpt from his extensive obituary (found below) "He entered the U.S. Army Air Corps and earned his wings in April 1944 after completing flight training at Craig Field in Alabama. Within a year, he was credited with destroying four German aircraft in the European Theater as a P-51 pilot and was awarded five air medals. As an aircraft commander, he flew more than 20 kinds of aircraft, ranging from the open cockpit Stearman to the F-80 "Shooting Star" and the air refuellable H-3 "Jolly Green Giant" helicopter and the C-119 and C-123 transports." Fine original condition as photographed - this collection displays well and will make a fantastic addition to any Advanced WWII Collection - Recent Acquisition & Presented as Acquired, RARE

Col. Will M. "Ikey" Hudson 

Completed arrangements are being announced for Col. Will M. "Ikey" Hudson, 84, of Union City, who died Oct. 24, 2007, at Baptist Memorial Hospital-Union City. He was a fighter pilot and military flight instructor whose career began in World War II and concluded in the Vietnam era.

Hudson, who retired to his hometown and joined the former Farmers Exchange Bank as a trust and loan officer in 1973 before being named a vice president, earned numerous medals during his 31-year career as he progressed from a decorated fighter pilot to management positions in Air Force rescue operations and military schools.

A retired military officer, Hudson was born Dec. 31, 1922, in Union City, son of the late Henderson and Ruby (Murry) Hudson. He graduated from Union City High School and enrolled at Murray (Ky.) State University and the former Memphis State College.

He entered the U.S. Army Air Corps and earned his wings in April 1944 after completing flight training at Craig Field in Alabama. Within a year, he was credited with destroying four German aircraft in the European Theater as a P-51 pilot and was awarded five air medals. As an aircraft commander, he flew more than 20 kinds of aircraft in the war, ranging from the open cockpit Stearman to the F-80 "Shooting Star" and the air refuelable H-3 "Jolly Green Giant" helicopter and the C-119 and C-123 transports.

At war's end, he returned stateside and earned his bachelor of science degree from the University of Tennessee in Knoxville in 1948 and his master's degree in public administration from George Washington University. He also graduated from the Air Command and Staff College.

With the outbreak of hostilities in Korea, he was recalled for pilot duty with the Air National Guard at Memphis and flew jet fighters and tactical reconnaissance aircraft. Assigned to helicopter duty, he began a series of Air Force rescue assignments, first in Korea as a rescue detachment commander and then at Turner Air Force Base in Georgia as chief of the base rescue detachment. Later, he was named operations officer for the 40th Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Wing at Ramstein Air Base in Germany.

In that capacity, he managed the Air Force rescue operations for Europe, Africa and the Middle East. He was also wing chief in the Air University's Squadron Officer School.

It was also while he served in Korea that he initiated "Operation Seldom." Hudson made sure Americans were aware of the needs of homeless children and others in that far-away country who were victims of the war. As citizens passed on needed supplies and gifts to him, he saw to their delivery to orphanages and their distribution to other Koreans in need.

Hudson received another Air Medal for his service in Korea, plus an Air Rescue Medal, Joint Service Commendation Medal, the Legion of Merit, two Meritorious Service medals and the Air Force Commendation Medal during his service to his country.

In 1972 he was assigned to the Defense Information School at Fort Benjamin Harrison in Indiana as assistant commander. He continued in that capacity until his retirement, assuming responsibility for the curriculum, scheduling and supervision of more than 60 classes annually with more than 1,200 students.

After his return to Union City with his family, he was selected president of the Obion County Chamber of Commerce and was a member of the Union City Kiwanis Club and the Order of Daedalians, America's premier fraternal organization of military pilots.



He was a board member of the Obion County Cancer Agency and was a 50-year Mason and Scottish Rite and a member of Union City First Christian Church. (Partial Obituary found in NWTN Today; The Messenger Oct 25, 2007)









WWII USAAF Army Air Forces Pilot's Flight Log P-51 Mustang & Photos 'Col Hudson' | eBay


Fine original condition as photographed - this collection displays well and will make a fantastic addition to any Advanced WWII Collection - Recent Acquisition & Presented as Acquired, RARE. He was also wing chief in the Air University’s Squadron Officer School.



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## Gnomey (Aug 12, 2022)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 20, 2022)

107th Tactical Recon Group P-51 Fighter Plane AX-M















Org. Photo: 107th Tactical Recon Group P-51 Fighter Plane (AX-M) on Airfield!!! | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Org. Photo: 107th Tactical Recon Group P-51 Fighter Plane (AX-M) on Airfield!!! at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Aug 20, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Aug 22, 2022)

P-51C Mustang N1202 RACE 60 in 1949-
















E48 - Original B&W 616 Aircraft Negative - P-51C Mustang N1202 RACE 60 in 1949 | eBay


E48 - Original B&W 616 Aircraft Negative - P-51C Mustang N1202 RACE 60 at Salmon, Idaho in 1949. - Placed 3rd in Bendix Trophy race, 1949. - Placed 2nd in Bendix Trophy race, 1948. - Set coast-to-coast speed record, 1947.



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## Wurger (Aug 22, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Aug 24, 2022)

City of El Paso Texas

















1943 NA P-51 MUSTANG Airplane City of El Paso, TX, Official 8x10 press Photo #2 | eBay
1943 NA P-51 MUSTANG Airplane City of El Paso, TX, Official 8x10 press Photo #1 | eBay

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## Wurger (Aug 24, 2022)




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## Gnomey (Aug 27, 2022)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 29, 2022)

Swiss















*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang in Swiss Air Force Markings ~ Excellent | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *PHOTO* P-51 Mustang in Swiss Air Force Markings ~ Excellent at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Aug 29, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Aug 29, 2022)

Swedish 15















*PHOTO* P-51 Mustang in Swedish Air Force Markings ~ Excellent | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *PHOTO* P-51 Mustang in Swedish Air Force Markings ~ Excellent at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Aug 29, 2022)




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## jgreiner (Aug 30, 2022)

Post 1305, one says City and the other is County. Wonder if they're different a/c or the same one painted over? Interesting!


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## ColFord (Aug 30, 2022)

jgreiner said:


> Post 1305, one says City and the other is County. Wonder if they're different a/c or the same one painted over? Interesting!


Same aircraft, used multiple times for a series of photographs that were issued to local press to show an aircraft representing one purchased using war bond or similar funds drives in various cities, counties or states as well as community groups. There are other photos, likely taken on same day, showing this aircraft with the names of the sponsors on the same panel below the exhausts. There were similar photos taken at later dates showing a representative P-51B and then later P-51D with names of locations and groups that had donated funds sufficient to purchase an aircraft.

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## jgreiner (Sep 6, 2022)

Crimea_River said:


> Interesting colour study on the bottom.


I'd say the top too! Looks O/D to me. I don't think I've ever seen a P-51 (B or D) from the 31st FG other than NMF.


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 11, 2022)

AP247 No. 4 Squadron RAF



















WW2 Original Air Ministry Photo with Notes - Mustang Mk1 AP247 of 4 Sqn RAF | eBay


Listed is this Second World War original photograph showing a Royal Air Force Mustang Mk 1, Ser No AP247 of 4 Squadron, flying over its base at Bottisham in Cambridgeshire. The photograph is in good condition with minor age related handling marks and very minor staining.



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## Wurger (Sep 11, 2022)




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## jgreiner (Sep 11, 2022)

jgreiner said:


> I'd say the top too! Looks O/D to me. I don't think I've ever seen a P-51 (B or D) from the 31st FG other than NMF.


Did this post/picture get deleted?


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 11, 2022)

jgreiner said:


> Did this post/picture get deleted?


no North American P-51 Mustang


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## jgreiner (Sep 11, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> no North American P-51 Mustang


Thank you! Obviously blind as a bat today.


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## Elvis (Sep 12, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> AP247 No. 4 Squadron RAF
> 
> View attachment 686447
> 
> ...


That's a -51A...I wonder if its not actually an A-36, or maybe a pre-cursor.


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## ColFord (Sep 13, 2022)

Elvis said:


> That's a -51A...I wonder if its not actually an A-36, or maybe a pre-cursor.


It is a Mustang Mk.I. It is not a P-51A. 

There were two variants of the Mustang Mk.I produced by NAA - NA-73, 320 aircraft with RAF Serials in AG series; NA-83, 300 aircraft with RAF Serials in the AL, AM & AP series. These are not P-51s as they pre-date the first variant of the NAA Mustang to carry the designation. These were bought directly and paid for by the UK Government. Mixed HMG and MG armament, moveable/variable front radiator intake ramp. Built for and used operationally in ETO by RAF.

Then there were 150 NA-91, which was the first to carry the P-51 designation as they were to be provided to the UK under Lend Lease. This was the P-51 (no suffix) Mustang in US service and the Mustang Mk.IA in RAF service with RAF Serials in the FD range. 92 delivered to RAF, 58 retained by USAAF. This was the variant with the 4 x 20mm cannon armament. Moveable/variable front radiator intake ramp.

Then the NA-97 A-36A Mustang. 500 ordered and built. HMG armament, first version with fixed radiator intake ramp, dive brakes and underwing hardpoints.

Then the NA-99 P-51A Mustang. 310 built. 50 delivered to RAF in part replacement for P-51/Mustang Mk.IA not delivered. Mustang Mk.II in RAF service, with RAF Serials in FR range. HMG armament, NO dive brakes, fixed radiator intake ramp and underwing hardpoints.

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## Elvis (Sep 13, 2022)

...and I stand corrected.
Sorry for the mis-ID ColFord.
I was going off the shape of the cowling, which I've noticed is different with the P51a, compared to the b,c,d and all the rest that came after.
I had no idea there were that many "pre-51" models that we sent to Britain.
So, according to your information, the Mustang in the picture is an NA-83. Correct?


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## ColFord (Sep 13, 2022)

Elvis said:


> ...and I stand corrected.
> Sorry for the mis-ID ColFord.
> I was going off the shape of the cowling, which I've noticed is different with the P51a, compared to the b,c,d and all the rest that came after.
> I had no idea there were that many "pre-51" models that we sent to Britain.
> So, according to your information, the Mustang in the picture is an NA-83. Correct?


The basic shape and configuration of the cowling on the early Mustangs, that is Mustang Mk.I thru to P-51A, was basically similar and largely dictated by the Allison V-1710 engine fitted that had the carburettor air intake above the nose as the Allison was fitted with a down draft carburettor. The shape of the carburettor air intake on top of the nose of the Mustang Mk.I and P-51/Mustang Mk.IA when viewed from above was a bit more straight sided and 'slim', whilst that on the A-36A and P-51A was a bit broader at the front to accommodate additional intake air filtering capability and then tapered back towards the rear of the cowling.

The later Merlin engine Mustangs P-51B and onwards, had the carburettor air intake below the nose, the "smile" just behind the propellor spinner, as the Merlin s fitted had an updraft carburettor fitted.

The Mustang in the posted photo, AP247 was one of the second batch of Mustang Mk.I produced and paid for by the UK Government and is a NA-83 - basically an NA-73 with a number of refinements and improvements added on the production line as a result of the early trials and use of the NA-73 by the RAF.

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## Elvis (Sep 13, 2022)

ColFord said:


> The basic shape and configuration of the cowling on the early Mustangs, that is Mustang Mk.I thru to P-51A, was basically similar and largely dictated by the Allison V-1710 engine fitted that had the carburettor air intake above the nose as the Allison was fitted with a down draft carburettor. The shape of the carburettor air intake on top of the nose of the Mustang Mk.I and P-51/Mustang Mk.IA when viewed from above was a bit more straight sided and 'slim', whilst that on the A-36A and P-51A was a bit broader at the front to accommodate additional intake air filtering capability and then tapered back towards the rear of the cowling.
> 
> The later Merlin engine Mustangs P-51B and onwards, had the carburettor air intake below the nose, the "smile" just behind the propellor spinner, as the Merlin s fitted had an updraft carburettor fitted.
> 
> The Mustang in the posted photo, AP247 was one of the second batch of Mustang Mk.I produced and paid for by the UK Government and is a NA-83 - basically an NA-73 with a number of refinements and improvements added on the production line as a result of the early trials and use of the NA-73 by the RAF.


Yes, the air intake was one clue, but have you ever noticed the _underside_ of the cowling and the front of it?
Only on those early examples (which I associate with the P-51A, because I always thought that was the initial model), do we see an "extension" at the front of the cowling.
A sort of "flange", if you will.
It gives the shape of the underside of the cowling a bit of a goose-neck appearance.
Not sure why it's there and it doesn't appear on anything past the -51A, but it's one of the first things I look at, whenever I see that plane.
Also, the top slopes down a bit as you move towards the front of the cowling. It's flatter on later versions, due to the change over to the Merlin engine.


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## Gnomey (Sep 13, 2022)

Good shots!


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## Totalize (Sep 17, 2022)

Even the U.S. Army 8th Airforce honoured the Queen. Back then she was still the Princess.

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 19, 2022)

AM148














P51 MUSTANG - ORIGINAL AVIATION PHOTO-MOYES & BOWYER COLLECTIONS | eBay


This original photo is from the collection of two of the most famous aviation authors, Chaz Bowyer and Philip Moyes. Rear Stamp details: Flight. All photos are original prints from negatives, (not scanned copies), and they were printed between 1930-1970.



www.ebay.com

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## Wurger (Sep 19, 2022)




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## Elvis (Sep 19, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> AM148
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is that thing behind the cockpit?


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 19, 2022)

camera?


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## Elvis (Sep 19, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> camera?


Oh, maybe...seems like an odd place to put one, though. You'd think that would be in the wing.


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## Airframes (Sep 19, 2022)

It's the photo-recon camera, angled to the rear and down, behind a "blanked-off" rear window. The aircraft were used for low-level, oblique tactical recon work.
When some P-51B/C models were used for the same purpose ( and some later Allison-engined aircraft), the clear window was retained, with an oval hole cut into it, to allow an unobstructed and distortion-free view for the camera lens.

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## Elvis (Sep 19, 2022)

Airframes said:


> It's the photo-recon camera, angled to the rear and down, behind a "blanked-off" rear window. The aircraft were used for low-level, oblique tactical recon work.
> When some P-51B/C models were used for the same purpose ( and some later Allison-engined aircraft), the clear window was retained, with an oval hole cut into it, to allow an unobstructed and distortion-free view for the camera lens.


Thank you for your concise explanation. Much appreciated.
TBH, I was thinking someone might joke that it was the gas cap. 😁

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## ColFord (Sep 20, 2022)

One of a number of photos of North American NA-83 Mustang I AM148 of No.26 Squadron Royal Air Force in August 1942. Aircraft was operating out of RAF Gatwick and did a air to air photo session with an official photographer with a number of the photos being used in an edition of Flight Magazine in the UK in late 1942. In some of the photos from the air to air session, the horizontal tail surfaces of the photo aircraft can be seen and from the shape was most likely a Westland Lysander - also on strength with No.26 Squadron at the time.

The photo shows the early version of the oblique reconnaissance camera installation developed by the RAF for the Mustang I. It featured the replacement of the perspex clear quarter panel behind the cockpit with a metal replacement that had a funnel or cone shaped area back to where the camera lens would be mounted. The camera lens was then supposed to sit inside a rubber sealing gland to prevent ingress of water and to seal against incoming airflow. As it was, the initial internal camera mount combined with the 'rigid locking' of the lens into the rubber seal in the quarter panel led to airframe vibration being transmitted to the camera, blurring the photos. Also the sealing was too effective, such that in certain maneuvers a low pressure area would build up near the quarter panel and also set up a vibration and in some instance 'suck' the panel off - often with resultant damage to the camera lens as the panel departed the aircraft (and a bit of a scare for pilot as the panel departed). Pilots also didn't like the solid panel as it reduced their rear visibility in that quarter. As an interim fix, removing the rubber sealing gland fitted to the metal panel, so that the lens was not held so rigidly provided some improvement to the quality of photos obtained. Changing to an internal mount that was simpified, less rigid - mounted on rubber isolation bushings - and with the simple expedient of cutting a lens sized hole in the perspex quarter window that allowed the camera lens to protrude thru the cut-out without touching or being supported, worked much better. 

NOTE: The photo is part of the sell off of a large collection of aviation photographs from various collections that are in the archives of Wingleader Publications of the UK. For those interested in other photos of early RAF Mustangs, the Wingleader online magazine, Issue Number 6 included a 15 page spread of photos regarding RAF Allison engine Mustangs. You can find and download PDF copies of the WIngleader magazines here: Wingleader Magazine

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## Snautzer01 (Sep 23, 2022)

AM981 170 sqr shot down 22-7-1943 French cost Pilot F/sgt Boon age 21. Photo taken 20-06-1943




















WW2 - RAF MUSTANG PHOTO 1943 | eBay


22 July 1943 over the. MUSTANG AM981. This b& original photo 125 x125mm was found in a photo album of Flt/Sgt Bill Allen. Photo taken from Anson A/C. 170 Squadron. Pilot F/Sgt Boon, 21.



www.ebay.com

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## Wurger (Sep 23, 2022)




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## ColFord (Sep 23, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> AM981 170 sqr shot down 22-7-1943 French cost Pilot F/sgt Boon age 21. Photo taken 20-06-1943


Interesting photo, but the source has the aircraft serial wrong and other details wrong. 

It is North American NA-83 Mustang I AL981. 

No.170 Squadron RAF Operational Record Book indicates that on 20 June 1943 Squadron aircraft were engaging in training flights, Bomber Co-operation carried out in the Newmarket area. 

AL981 was lost on 26 July 1943 when being flown by Flying Officer J D Dunne as one of a pair of Mustangs conducting a 'Popular' in the Les Sept Iles area, the other aircraft of the pair Mustang I AM133 flown by Flight Lieutenant M Lissner returned safely. F/O Dunne listed as "Missing" and is recorded on the Runnymede RAF Memorial. 

F/SGT P C Boon is recorded as still flying operationally with No.170 Squadron up until the end of December 1943, flying a number of operational sorties. At end of December 1943 No.170 Squadron was disbanded and its personnel and aircraft were moved to other RAF Tac/R Mustang Squadrons, including No.II(AC), 63, 168 and 268 Squadrons, but his name does not show up in any of their ORBs arriving on posting Squadron. Also name does not show up in the records for any of the other associated units in the 2TAF Recce Wings. He may have been posted to either a training role or another unit outside the Tac/R and Recce role. 

There is also no record for P C Boon in Commonwealth War Grave Commission lists of those killed during WW2.

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## Elvis (Sep 24, 2022)

ColFord,

You mentioned that Flight Officer Dunne was lost conducting a "Popular".
What is a "Popular"?


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 24, 2022)

Elvis said:


> ColFord,
> 
> You mentioned that Flight Officer Dunne was lost conducting a "Popular".
> What is a "Popular"?








Popular | Operations & Codenames of WWII







codenames.info

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## Elvis (Sep 24, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> Popular | Operations & Codenames of WWII
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Snautzer.


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## ColFord (Sep 24, 2022)

And you had to cover the same section of coastline covered in a 'Popular' at regular intervals, and to obtain full coverage of a section of coastline that had high interest, it had to be covered at low tide (potentially exposing any obstructions or shoals), high tide and mid-tide. The coverage had to be performed at a certain distance from the coastline, at a certain height and at a certain speed to ensure the proper coverage was obtained as well as the required overlap between each photo frame to ensure continuous linear coverage of the section of coast being photographed.

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## Elvis (Sep 24, 2022)

ColFord said:


> And you had to cover the same section of coastline covered in a 'Popular' at regular intervals, and to obtain full coverage of a section of coastline that had high interest, it had to be covered at low tide (potentially exposing any obstructions or shoals), high tide and mid-tide. The coverage had to be performed at a certain distance from the coastline, at a certain height and at a certain speed to ensure the proper coverage was obtained as well as the required overlap between each photo frame to ensure continuous linear coverage of the section of coast being photographed.


Right. That just sets a standard so the corresponding photos can be compared on some kind of an equal basis. 
Makes sense.


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## Snautzer01 (Sep 27, 2022)

Original P-51 H Mustang WWII press release from North American Aviation 8-1-1945















Original P-51 H Mustang WWII press release from North American Aviation 8/1/45 | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Original P-51 H Mustang WWII press release from North American Aviation 8/1/45 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Snautzer01 (Sep 30, 2022)

Old Faithful Shark teeth sgt Brice FF268 or FF266

1948: USAF 3525th PTW.
.1951: USAF 3615th PTW.

















































Original WW2 Collectible US Photographs for sale | eBay


Get the best deals on Original WW2 Collectible US Photographs when you shop the largest online selection at eBay.com. Free shipping on many items | Browse your favorite brands | affordable prices.



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## Wurger (Sep 30, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Oct 6, 2022)

Low



















WW2 PRESS PHOTOGRAPH- BRITAINS LATEST FIGHTER NORTH AMERICAN MUSTANG | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for WW2 PRESS PHOTOGRAPH- BRITAINS LATEST FIGHTER NORTH AMERICAN MUSTANG at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Elvis (Oct 6, 2022)

Another "camera plane". 
At that altitude, they must be checking out the local flora and fauna!

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## Wurger (Oct 6, 2022)




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## ColFord (Oct 8, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> Low
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Part of a series of photos taken on 24 July 1942 at a press day at RAF Sawbridgeworth of North American Mustang I aircraft of No.II(AC) Squadron Royal Air Force - Shiney Two - to introduce the Mustang to the UK and World press. Photographs from this session appeared in a late 1942 issue of Flight Magazine UK edition, with many photos from this event being reprinted multiple times since in many books and other publications about the Mustang and also some are held in the collections of the IWM London. At the time this press day took place, the Squadron had not commenced operational use of the Mustang. A number of low passes were arranged for the press photographers to get suitably very low level photographs to illustrate the low level Army Cooperation role the aircraft were intended to perform. Aircraft is fitted with the early version of the F.24 oblique camera installation.

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## Snautzer01 (Oct 28, 2022)

P-51D-20-NA 44-63391 78th FS (15th FG)














*WWII photo- P 51 Mustang Fighter plane w/ Nose Art - (#44-63391)* | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for *WWII photo- P 51 Mustang Fighter plane w/ Nose Art - (#44-63391)* at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Oct 28, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Nov 10, 2022)

363rd Fighter Group Diablo D-Day stripes.















9th Air Force P-51 Mustang 363rd Fighter Group | eBay


Original photo taken in France showing P-51 with nose art "DIABLO" in front of a castle in ruins, in France, Normandy.



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## Wurger (Nov 10, 2022)




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## Gnomey (Nov 11, 2022)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Nov 18, 2022)

P-51B Peg O' My Heart England flown by George R Bickell
P-51B 43-12173 GQ-A 'Peg O' my Heart'
355th Fighter Squadron, 354th Fighter Group, 9th Air Force
362nd Fighter Squadron, 357th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force
555th Fighter Training Squadron, 496th Fighter Training Group, 8th Air Force
359th Fighter Squadron, 356th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force, as P-51B1, marked war weary. 43-12173 | American Air Museum





















WW2 PRESS RELEASE PHOTO- AMERICAN P-51B FIGHTERS PROVIDING SUPPORT FOR BOMBERS | eBay


<p>WW2 PRESS PHOTOGRAPH -Original </p><p>See pictures for item </p>



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## Wurger (Nov 18, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Nov 20, 2022)

stationed on HOLTON Airfield and GOXHILL Airfield in England





























US WWII 8TH AIR FORCE PHOTO ALBUM - GREAT AIRCRAFT PHOTOS + LUFTWAFFE AIRCRAFT! | eBay


US WWII 8TH AIR FORCE PHOTO ALBUM - GREAT AIRCRAFT PHOTOS INCLUDING CAPTURED LUFTWAFFE PLANES! 312 photos. Well captioned. Starts with his trip overseas to England on the Queen Mary. Landed in Scotland in June 1943.



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## Wurger (Nov 20, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Nov 21, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> Baugher P-51B-15-NA 42-106767 QP-E (334th FS, 4th FG, 8th AF) hit by AAA while attacking a flak tower at St Dizier airvield, France and crashed 1 km NE of Putterville, 35 km WS of St Dizier, France May 9, 1944. MACR 4685. Pilot bailed out and became POW.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Baugher P-51B-15-NA 42-106767 QP-E (334th FS, 4th FG, 8th AF) hit by AAA while attacking a flak tower at St Dizier airvield, France and crashed 1 km NE of Putterville, 35 km WS of St Dizier, France May 9, 1944. MACR 4685. Pilot bailed out and became POW.














P51 MUSTANG - ORIGINAL AVIATION PHOTO-MOYES & BOWYER COLLECTIONS | eBay


This original photo is from the collection of two of the most famous aviation authors, Chaz Bowyer and Philip Moyes. All photos are original prints from negatives, (not scanned copies), and they were printed between 1930-1970.



www.ebay.com

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## Wurger (Nov 21, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Nov 24, 2022)

BALTIMORE JO JO 355th Fighter Group 3 Kills















Original Photo nose art P-51 Mustang BALTIMORE JO JO 355th Fighter Group 3 Kills | eBay


Quick search turns up that it was assigned to Lt. Joseph J Maisch Jr, of the 358th Fighter Squadron, 355th Fighter Group of the 8th Air Force. I n good condition.



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## Wurger (Nov 24, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Nov 27, 2022)

Swedish Airforce














R.A.F: P-51 MUSTANGS ORIGINAL AIR MINISTRY PHOTO W/ STAMP 11TH JUNE 1948 | eBay


P-51 MUSTANGS. ORIGINAL AIR MINISTRY PHOTO W/ STAMP. 11TH JUNE 1948.



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## Wurger (Nov 27, 2022)




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## Gnomey (Nov 28, 2022)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Nov 30, 2022)

Baugher XP-51 039 (MSN 73-3107) assigned to Woodrum Field, Roanoke, VA. Assigned to NACA Langley Memorial Aeronautical Laboratory, Virginia Mar 9, 1943 to Jan 15, 1944. Surveyed for ALD test Jan 15, 1944.
























3 WWII Era John Reeder Photos - P-51A Mustang Fighter - LMAL. | eBay


Reeder was assigned to the full scale Wind Tunnel at Langley Field, VA, and later transferred to the Flight Research Division in 1942. Jack Reeder retired in 1980, yet remained active in NASA until the early '90's, as a consultant to two congressional committees and to NASA Aerospace Safety...



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## Snautzer01 (Nov 30, 2022)

P-51B




















4 WWII Era Photos - P-51BA Mustang Fighter - LMAL. | eBay


In his first year during WWII, "Jack" flew 19 new aircraft, nine of which were fighters. Reeder was NASA's first helicopter pilot and best known for his pioneering work in helicopters and vertical take off and landing aerodynamics.



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## Snautzer01 (Nov 30, 2022)

Baugher: P-51B-1-NA 43-12105 assigned to Langley Field, VA
Assigned to NACA Langley Memorial Aeronautical Laboratory, later as NACA Langley Research 
Center, Langley Field, VA Aug 16, 1943 to Jan 4, 1951. Registered as NACA 105.used for full-scale wind tunnel drag tests at NACA Langley Sep 1943. Prop was removed and ducts
were blocked and all seams smoothed over. Salvaged at Langley Field, VA

























3 WWII Era Photos - P-51B Mustang Fighter - LMAL. | eBay


Great views of an early Mustang. In his first year during WWII, "Jack" flew 19 new aircraft, nine of which were fighters. Reeder was NASA's first helicopter pilot and best known for his pioneering work in helicopters and vertical take off and landing aerodynamics.



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## Snautzer01 (Nov 30, 2022)

Original vs extended tail

Baugher P-51D-20-NA 44-63826 assigned to Dayton Army Air Field, Vandalia, OH. Assigned to NACA Langley Memorial Aeronautical Laboratory, Langley Field, VA Aug 14, 1945 to Apr 4, 1946. Assigned to Langley Field, VA


































4 WWII Era Photos - P-51H Test Pilot John Reeder - LMAL. | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 4 WWII Era Photos - P-51H Test Pilot John Reeder - LMAL. at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



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## Wurger (Nov 30, 2022)




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## Elvis (Nov 30, 2022)

I can't help but notice a similarity between the canopy's of the razorback P51's and the P40's.
It's almost as if NA was snubbing their nose a little at Curtiss.

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## jgreiner (Nov 30, 2022)

First pic in post 1367 is a P-40. Third pic in post 1369 sure looks like an F-82. Nonetheless, thanks for the great stuff, Snautzer!


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## Elvis (Nov 30, 2022)

jgreiner said:


> First pic in post 1367 is a P-40. Third pic in post 1369 sure looks like an F-82. Nonetheless, thanks for the great stuff, Snautzer!


I don't know how you could tell about the F-82 in the 3rd pic, but you're right. The first pic in 1367 IS a P40!

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## jgreiner (Nov 30, 2022)

Easy. The F-82's tail fillet was much more prominent than the P/F-51D or H and reached all the way forward to the antenna mast. The fillet on the 51's wasn't nearly as prominent/big and ended about a foot before the antenna mast. Plus, look at the photo again and you'll see the antenna wire and small portion of the port tail.


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## jgreiner (Nov 30, 2022)

See what I mean? AND to pile on.....the fuselage access hatch and overall shape of the rear fuselage is a dead giveaway as well.


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## Elvis (Nov 30, 2022)

jgreiner said:


> Easy. The F-82's tail fillet was much more prominent than the P/F-51D or H and reached all the way forward to the antenna mast. The fillet on the 51's wasn't nearly as prominent/big and ended about a foot before the antenna mast. Plus, *look at the photo again and you'll see the antenna wire and small portion of the port tail.*


I think that is the other airplane, parked next to it.
I did go back and look and this time, I noticed the shadows on the ground all show single fuselage aircraft, except for the one you mentioned.
This gives even more creedence that what we're really seeing are the two aircraft parked next to each other.


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## Snautzer01 (Nov 30, 2022)

jgreiner said:


> First pic in post 1367 is a P-40. Third pic in post 1369 sure looks like an F-82. Nonetheless, thanks for the great stuff, Snautzer!


It it also a series of pictures in 1 foto. Would be a bit silly to cut it out now wont it.
The other in 1369 the same. You can also view this one in the F-82 thread.

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## jgreiner (Dec 1, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> It it also a series of pictures in 1 foto. Would be a bit silly to cut it out now wont it.
> The other in 1369 the same. You can also view this one in the F-82 thread.


Yes, I realize that! Just wanted to point those things out to some people who might not have noticed! Again.....appreciate all of the great photos!

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## Snautzer01 (Dec 6, 2022)

Snautzer01 said:


> WWII AAF 357th Fighter Group P 51 Mustang Prop damage wreck photo lot of 4 | eBay
> WWII AAF 357th Fighter Group Passion Wagon P 51 Mustang Nose Art photo lot of 2 | eBay
> 
> P-51D-5-NA #44-13691, which was nicknamed "Passion Wagon Mustang! - Passion Wagon profile
> ...



P-51D-5-NA #44-13691, which was nicknamed Passion Wagon pilot Arval Roberson
















US ACE P-51 MUSTANG pilot Arval Roberson signed His Mustang PASSION WAGON photo | eBay


I am a 35 year collector of mostly military autographs. I have a large selection of military/sports autographs in many categories.



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## Wurger (Dec 6, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Dec 7, 2022)

P-51D-15-NA
Registration N79111
Serial 44-15651
Fate Crashed September 2011 

Baugher to civil registry as NX79111 in 1946 with the name *The Galloping Ghost*, the nickname of football star Red Grange. Flew in 1946 Thompson Trophy Race. Reported in 1990 as airworthy as N79111. Rebuilt for racing in 1963 as "Miss Candace". Damaged in crash landing at 1970 races. Rebuilt with smaller canopy and smaller belly cooling scoop. Renamed *Jeannie* in 1979. Rebuilt again. Sold in 1983 and renamed Specter. As "The Galloping Ghost" crashed into crowd at Reno air races, Sep 16, 2011. Initial reports indicate that the aircraft may have lost elevator trim tab at speed, resulting in loss of control. Pilot killed, plus 9 on the ground, plus 70 injuries.















Original Photo B RAYMOND'S P-51 MUSTANG FIGHTER 1946 CLEVELAND AIR RACES Ohio 66 | eBay


<p>ORIGINAL POST-WWII PHOTO - ORIGINAL TO THE TIME - NOT A COPY, SCAN, OR REPRO</p> <p>QUANTITY: 1 - See the other original WWI & WWII photos that I have listed. </p> <p>ITEM: Original Post-WWII Photo of B. RAYMOND'S P-51D MUSTANG FIGHTER at the National Air Races in Cleveland, Ohio, 1946 for...



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## Snautzer01 (Dec 7, 2022)

GEORGE WELCH'S P-51 MUSTANG FIGHTER 1946 NATIONAL AIR RACES CLEVELAND

P-51D-20 44-63576 ( NX37492 ), #37 'Jay Dee' N51DH 

Baugher registered as N37492 in Evergreen collection, McMinnville, OR. By mid-1996 (still with Evergreen) had been reregistered N51DH.
















Photo GEORGE WELCH'S P-51 MUSTANG FIGHTER 1946 NATIONAL AIR RACES CLEVELAND 63 | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 7, 2022)

WASP JACQUELINE COCHRANE 'S P-51 Fighter 1946 CLEVELAND AIR RACES 

P-51B-15-NA 43-24760



NX28388 Archives - This Day in Aviation

















Orig Photo WASP JACQUELINE COCHRANE'S P-51 Fighter 1946 CLEVELAND AIR RACES 56 | eBay


<p>ORIGINAL POST-WWII PHOTO - ORIGINAL TO THE TIME - NOT A COPY, SCAN, OR REPRO</p> <p>QUANTITY: 1 - See the other original WWI & WWII photos that I have listed. </p> <p>ITEM: Original Post-WWII Photo of WOMEN AIR SERVICE PILOTS (WASP) founder and leader JACQUELINE COCHRANE'S P-51 MUSTANG...



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## Wurger (Dec 7, 2022)




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## Elvis (Dec 7, 2022)

I remember hearing about that crash at the 2011 Reno air races on the news.
Such a horrific event. Very sad day.


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 13, 2022)

314th Ord Dpt- P 51 MUSTANG Fighter pane -KASSEL Germany notice captured beute Ju88 augustus 1945



















*WWII photo- 314th Ord Dpt- P 51 MUSTANG Fighter pane -KASSEL Germany* | eBay


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Dec 20, 2022)

P-51H-10-NA 44-64499 ANG














ORIGINAL WWII ERA P-51 MUSTANG PHOTOS | eBay


Bought from local estate.



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## Wurger (Dec 20, 2022)




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## Snautzer01 (Dec 26, 2022)

Aerial View Of P-51 Mustang w/ Nose Art Dragon Lady














WWII US GI Photo - Aerial View Of P-51 Mustang w/ Nose Art Dragon Lady | eBay


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## Wurger (Dec 26, 2022)




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## Gnomey (Dec 31, 2022)

Nice shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Friday at 8:32 AM)

USS SHANGRI-LA CV-38 44-14017














1945 WWII US Navy Official USS SHANGRI-LA CV-38, creased 4x5 Photo Airplane | eBay


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## SaparotRob (Friday at 8:38 AM)

Snautzer01 said:


> USS SHANGRI-LA CV-38
> 
> View attachment 701335
> 
> ...


Nice photo shop.

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## Snautzer01 (Friday at 8:47 AM)

SaparotRob said:


> Nice photo shop.


Nope. File:North American P-51D Mustang takes off from USS Shangri-La (CV-38) during a test flight on 15 November 1944.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

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## SaparotRob (Friday at 8:48 AM)

Another joke crashes and burns.

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## Snautzer01 (Friday at 8:48 AM)

Mustang! - Documents







mustang.gaetanmarie.com


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## Wurger (Friday at 9:26 AM)




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## Elvis (Friday at 8:53 PM)

SaparotRob said:


> Another joke crashes and burns.


Once again, another member forgot to preface their post with...

PLEASE TAKE NOTE: THE FOLLOWING IS IN JEST. 
** THIS IS A JOKE **
*DO NOT TAKE THE FOLLOWING SERIOUSLY.*

I find that usually helps. Feel free to cut and paste for future use. You're welcome.

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## Gnomey (Monday at 4:18 PM)

Good shots!


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## Snautzer01 (Yesterday at 6:46 AM)

USAAF North America safety crew & airplane test 















1940's WWII USAAF North America safety crew & airplane test 8x11 photo | eBay


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## Wurger (Yesterday at 8:06 AM)




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