# Stuff you wish someone had told you as a rookie!



## seiseki (Dec 12, 2010)

Hi!
I've recently gotten into scale modeling and I'm currently building a 1:48 A6M3 Zero, but I also have an unfinished 1:48 Sopwith Camel lying around.

I'm curious about what stuff you wish someone had told or taught you about.
So, let the advice flow, it can be anything from tools, techniques, materials etc.

I can start with one thing I've experienced so far.

*1.* If you have cats, don't let model parts lie around on your workbench for too long, or you might find that they're completely gone when you need them. 
Like the engine cover for my Sopwith Camel.. >.<


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 12, 2010)

Children too 

The one thing I really wished I had been told was to take my time.


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## Wurger (Dec 12, 2010)

Also wives... they are of a bad feature of coming and disturbing when modelling.


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## Lucky13 (Dec 12, 2010)

Nooo kidding!?


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## T Bolt (Dec 12, 2010)

I think the single biggest thing I learned along the way was the proper way to do decals. Paint, Future gloss coat, decals, more Future to seal the decals, and then Dullcoat. Made a world of difference in my modeling.


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## seiseki (Dec 12, 2010)

T Bolt said:


> I think the single biggest thing I learned along the way was the proper way to do decals. Paint, Future gloss coat, decals, more Future to seal the decals, and then Dullcoat. Made a world of difference in my modeling.



I haven't gotten to the part with decals yet, but whats so special about them?
What difference does the gloss coat make?


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## N4521U (Dec 12, 2010)

seiseki said:


> I haven't gotten to the part with decals yet, but whats so special about them?
> What difference does the gloss coat make?



They need a smooth "non-porous" surface to lay flat to. I'ts Future floor polish. Apply it with an artists "fan" type synthetic bristle brush. Not a real dense one about 1/2 -3/4" across. Very light coat applied evenly, you don't want it to puddle when applied or it will dry in dark spots. So pull it around as you apply it. The use one of them girly eye shadow applicators to apply decal solvent to soften the decal and allow you to position them "exactly" where you want them. Nothing looks worse than milky white decals!


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## seiseki (Dec 12, 2010)

ah, thanks for the info!

Decal solvent, do I apply that after I've placed the decal on the model?


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## N4521U (Dec 12, 2010)

seiseki said:


> ah, thanks for the info!
> 
> Decal solvent, do I apply that after I've placed the decal on the model?



Wet the decal on the sheet, one at a time, slide the decal off the backing paper onto the model surface. While still wet, dip the dauber into the solvent, and gently wet the top surface with the solvent. You can slide the decal around the surface like this. The decal will "soften" a bit, it can tear easily now so be gentle. When it is in place, make sure everything is level or it may move on its own. Squeeze out the dauber, then pat off some of the liquid, but Not till dry. The decal will conform to most dips and undulations. Liquid will evaporate and the decal will be solid in place. A little more future over the decal when dry will lock it in place. Practice one somewhere. The steps are easy and flow nicely together. Easy peasy.


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## mikewint (Dec 12, 2010)

Amen, on the decal info, I'm a long way from a rookie but none of this as around when I started so I'm learning ll this stuff too. do it right and the "decal" won't look like a decal, it will look like paint.
Other than that, learning to use an airbrush makes a world of difference in your models appearence


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## seiseki (Dec 13, 2010)

Went to my local scale modeling hobby store and bought two bottles of something that the clerk said were used for decals..
Something called 'micro set' and 'micro sol'..

I'm sure getting that floor polish would have been cheaper but I'm lazy..

So what are the actual hard parts of modeling, where do most people screw up?
I haven't finished a model yet so I'm kinda curious.
The only thing that worries me at the moment is if scratches from sanding will show up after painting and I'm also scared of painting over the panel lines..


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## Thorlifter (Dec 13, 2010)

If you have glue on your fingers, don't touch the clear parts


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2010)

Micro Set and Micro Sol liquids allow to apply decals fitting them to a surface. However using of these liquids doesn't mean a painted matt surface will let them settle down correctly. The effect of incorrect applying is called "silvering" because these decal areas of the clear background seem to be more matt and "milky" than the painted matt surface. Therefore we use clear coat for making a surface smooth and more solid.

Sanding is one of the most annoying works on models for most of people. But it is not as frustrating as it seems. For major sanding should be used sandpaper of 600-800 grade. Then one of 1200-1500 grade. Also it is better if the sandpaper can be used for wet sanding ( with water). Following the way lets get a smooth matt surface without any scratches clearly seen. The next step is the re-freshing of all panel lines and rivet ones.
The final work starts with gentle sanding with sandpaper of 2000 grade and removing of all dirt and dust with a brush of soft hairs. Then polishing with soft rag, toothpaste or other compounds for polishing. Personally I use common newspaper. When all is made properly scratches aren't seen at all. However all metalizers and silver ( aluminium ) paints make them noticable. That's why we have to use primers additionally.


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## JohnAnthony (Dec 13, 2010)

Start practicing your skills on cheap kits. You can learn from your mistakes on a $10 kit just as well as on a $50 kit. Save the expensive stuff for when you know what you're doing. (Unless you're rich of course, in which case...nevermind.)


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## mikewint (Dec 13, 2010)

Rather than sandpaper, i use fingernail (emery) boards. they come in various "grits" much like sandpaper and they are fairly rigid. There are also very fine foam "boards" for buffing or shining the nails


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2010)

I agree with the post above. These "tools" can come in handy too. But these aren't for "wet" sanding.So the work on surfaces might take more time.


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## T Bolt (Dec 13, 2010)

seiseki said:


> Went to my local scale modeling hobby store and bought two bottles of something that the clerk said were used for decals..
> Something called 'micro set' and 'micro sol'..
> 
> I'm sure getting that floor polish would have been cheaper but I'm lazy..



You put on a coat of Future before the decals to give the surface a gloss coat, than after letting the Future dry for a couple of days, you put the decals on with the setting solution. Don't use Micro Set with Future though, it causes a reaction that turns the Future milky color, but Micro Sol is OK. Also any mistakes with the Future can be removes with Windex which acts as a solvent for it.


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## mikewint (Dec 13, 2010)

Don't know about where you live but around here you cannot find "future". It now says Pledge Floor Polish and in small logo type on the bottom right "with future shine". the plastic bottle is clear and the liquid looks like water.


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## seiseki (Dec 13, 2010)

I live in Sweden, not sure where I'd go to look for this 'future' stuff.. 

I've got vallejo matt and glossy varnish though, does that work?
And do I have to coat the entire model or just the surface where the decals will be applied?

Could anyone post some pics of milky decals compared to properly applied decals?

Thanks for all the tips so far, this really helps as I will soon be applying decals to the instruments in cockpit of my zero..


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## mikewint (Dec 13, 2010)

Future is essentially a clear acrylic (water soluble) In Sweden it should be sold as pictured below


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2010)

Here you are the effect of the silvering. In the last image you can see how the properly applied decal marking should look like.Source - IPMSStockholm.

Tech Tips: Ageing Models, Silvering Decals and Biological Warfare - About Reversing Decal Silvering


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2010)

Concerning the Future liquid..... it is known also as Pronto, Sidolux...All of them are for preservation of wooden floors .And you can find these in all supermarkets and shops for cleaning of houses.
But a short note here.....because these varnishes are acrylic ones it would be better to add to them a few drops of the Retarder for acrylic paints. ALso mix with Flat Tamiya Base makes is better for airbrushing. Of course these can be applied with a brush too.


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## seiseki (Dec 13, 2010)

Ah, thanks!
I'll go looking for it in the nearest store tomorrow. 

And those pictures help a lot, as I kid I built a few models and I remember that the decals always looked milky like that, I didn't know there was a way to make them blend in perfectly.


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2010)

seiseki said:


> I've got vallejo matt and glossy varnish though, does that work?
> And do I have to coat the entire model or just the surface where the decals will be applied?



Of course these Vallejo varnishes work.

To answer the second question.... it depends on with what you want to apply the coat on a model. If it is a brush, you can put the dope at areas where decals have to be applied only. But I suggest brushing or airbrushing of an entire model.


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## mikewint (Dec 13, 2010)

You can also dip your clear plastic parts in Future, put them on a paper towel to dry (edge down). The fututre will make the clear plastic look like glass and will fill-in minor scratches.
one other hint, I use permanent markers to color in the metal frames for the canopy


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## seiseki (Dec 13, 2010)

Anyone got any tips for using acrylic colors?
I read the basic painting guide, but it's for oil colors, I guess most of it still applies, but I'm curious as the differences.


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## mikewint (Dec 13, 2010)

I apply my acrylics with an airbrush and only use a paintbrushes on small parts. other than that pretty much the same, several thin coat vs. big gloppy heavy coats.
I thin my acrylic paints with blue windshield washer fluid. sounds weird but it works very well and does not alter colors, even whites. Stir, stir, stir and then stir some more, don't just shake. Paints should be about as thick as whole milk. brushes can be cleaned with rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol) or just plain water


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2010)

The main tip is that acrylic paints need a primer.It is because these colours "like" peeling with masking tapes especially. You can use a few of them that are offered by a couple of manufacturers. For instance Mr. Base White 1000 or Mr. Surfacer 1000 both of the Gunze Sangyo. Personally I use light grey oil enamels of Humbrol. Also , to make the possibility of peeling down I wash a model up with warm water and soap then make it dry before painting.
Acrylic paints are better for airbrushing than for brushing. But it doesn't mean you can't apply them with a brush at all. 
Acrylic paints have the time of getting dry faster than oil enamels. That's why the retarder is needed for better or just applying.


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## seiseki (Dec 13, 2010)

Hm, so I need to start of by painting the entire model with the primer?
Even small details like the cockpit?

Can the primer be painted applied by a brush? Because I know there are primers for warhammer that come in a spraycan.

This is getting more complex than I expected


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2010)

Of course the cockpit interiors , wheel bays , a tail wheel bay don't have to be painted with a varnish. The main reason of applying of dope on entire model is to get one solid and smooth surface. Look , if you apply the gloss varnish at area where you are going to stick decals only you will get a surface of different appearance right? What is more the thickness of a layer of paint there will be larger that of the one around its " vicinity". As a result you will get a kind of "stair" at the "borderline" of both areas. Then you will apply decal what will make the matter worse. Because there will be a layer of paint + a layer of varnish + thickness of decal marking. The kind of a " sandwich " will be really noticable from different directions when looking at the model. And finally you have to apply one more layer of varnish on the " sandwich " but it has to be the matt one. Too much doeasn't it?

These primers of Gunze S. are offered in spraycans as well. As far as these primers for warhammer are concerned. I wouldn't use them and mix with other paints for models without checking whether they can work together.

These Future/Pronto/Sidolux liquids can be applied with a brush easy. Of course if these are too thick you should thin them with alcohol or water ( depends on a liquid).


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## bobbysocks (Dec 13, 2010)

all very interesting. i havent done any of this stuff for a very long time...but have some kits i need to get started on. when i had my autoparts store i used to sell a liquid masking solution for auto paint. you sprayed or brushed it on...let it set and then applied your color. after that dried...hot soapy water took the masking solution off. is there something simular for models and does it work well? as for decals the auto detailers used to use dish soap and water for mylar window tint and decals. future ( wax) doesnt cause any adhesive problems down the road?


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## mikewint (Dec 13, 2010)

Bobby, the films do not employ an adhesive, thet adhere to the glass through electrostatic attraction, and Future is not a wax, it's a clear acrylic "paint"


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2010)

There is something what is called Mascol. It is a kind of a liquid rubber. It ca be applied with a brush or a wooden stick.When it is dried it gives paint-proof layer. Because it is rubber it can be removed easy by drawing with hands or a toothpick. But it is not too effective for quite big areas. That's why a paper masking tape is used. It can be removed by soaking in warm water.


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## Bucksnort101 (Dec 13, 2010)

Micromask is another masking liquid. Brushes on and peels of like a thin layer of rubber. Made by the same company as Microsol and Microset I beleive.


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2010)

Exactly, it is the same like the Mascol of the Humbrol.


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## seiseki (Dec 13, 2010)

haha, I keep going to the hobby store back and forth as I learn new about stuff..


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2010)

Take a sledge...you'll get the shop faster.


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## Wurger (Dec 13, 2010)

And here an example of using of the Mascol. It is the violet thing in pictures.


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## N4521U (Dec 13, 2010)

Will this Micro Mask lift acrylic paints when applied since it is water soluble???

In sign painting I used to spray paint the backs of clear Lexan panels for shop signs, the back lighted kind. It's all done with translucent vinyls now. Point is I used to get gallon cans of a product called Gripflex. It could be brushed, sprayed or even rolled on, multiple coats until it covered all over. I would mask surface 4 feet tall and as much as 14 feet long. It is water soluble as I sprayed acrylic lacquers layer over layer until I got the density I wanted. Then to clean off I used a water hose, or pealed it off if it was thick enough.


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## bobbysocks (Dec 13, 2010)

that looks simular to what i used to sell. for larger areas i would still use masking paper. that mascol...how clean can you get the edges? is it good for detail work? paint it on and trim the edges with an exacto knife and it gives you a nice sharp edge....or does it tend to bleed under??


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## mikewint (Dec 13, 2010)

Yea, i was wondering about the edges too, seems just like trying to hand paint a straight line. I do like the idea of covering the cockpit canopy with it. wonder if you could just slice out the thin metal canopy metal frame, paint it and then peel the rest off. I've used scotch tape for that in the past. works but a bi*ch to get off.


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## N4521U (Dec 13, 2010)

Does not bleed............... Not one Bit. Just make sure it is thick enough to peel from the area to be painted. Too thin and you can't lift it without shredding. Believe me, for sign work, you do Not want any bleeding edges! Just remember it's water soluble. So you need to test it the way you want to use it. Just to make sure it will not disolve the paint it is applied over.


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## Wurger (Dec 14, 2010)

For making straight lines I always use thin strips of masking tape.For instance Tamiya. The area between these strips can be fill with Maskol. But for large areas that need to be shrouded I use larger masking tape or paper ( cardboard) templates.


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## seiseki (Dec 14, 2010)

Ugh, I've just realized my hands are really shaky when doing the small detail painting.. Haven't applied any paint yet, just tried out my finest detail brush but damn, I didn't know my hands were that unstable


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## Wurger (Dec 14, 2010)

A few picture would help ......

If your hands shake you can use pegs for holding of details.


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## mikewint (Dec 14, 2010)

seiseki, rest the part on something solid and rest your hand as well. for very fine detail, like wires, I use a permanent marker, don't know about where you live but here they sell paint pens which are a lot like a markers except they contain liquid paint. try a craft-type store or art-supply store


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## seiseki (Dec 14, 2010)

mikewint said:


> seiseki, rest the part on something solid and rest your hand as well. for very fine detail, like wires, I use a permanent marker, don't know about where you live but here they sell paint pens which are a lot like a markers except they contain liquid paint. try a craft-type store or art-supply store



I saw someone mention that in another thread!
I'll keep that in mind, for now the brush will have to do 

I also created a new thread for my Zero: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/st...-22-zero-rookie-builder-27390.html#post747178


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## mikewint (Dec 14, 2010)

Art and craft-type stores carry a wider variety than hobby. I have some very fine brushes with very fat handles which make them easier to hold than some of those very thin handles that you generally find on fine brushes


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## bobbysocks (Dec 14, 2010)

for steadying your hand like mike said rest part of it or i have seen "crutches" made for this. these were mostly used by guys lettering doors. basically take a dowel rod and put a non-skid cushion on both ends...like a piece of chamios. one end rests on the table or whatever and the other is held in your palm while you paint.

good to know about that mascol...i am going to have to get me some. now if i can just buy a bottle of ambition all would be well.


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## mikewint (Dec 14, 2010)

Bobby, never heard of the dowel idea before but I like it
Ambition is a wife PO'd about all the money you spent for all those unbuilt kits laying around


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## N4521U (Dec 14, 2010)

mikewint said:


> Bobby, never heard of the dowel idea before but I like it
> Ambition is a wife PO'd about all the money you spent for all those unbuilt kits laying around



In sign writing it's called a "mahl" stick, pronounced "mall". It can be made from anything, mine was, is, an old 35" golf putter shaft with the grip left on, the smooth type. At the end I use an old rubber ball. In the case of the small stuff we are doing, a little bridge made of anything would work fine. A strip of wood with a block of wood at either end. This would allow the piece being painted to rest under the bridge. Thus, steadying the hand doing the painting.


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