# USA bombers



## Readie (Jan 18, 2012)

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0apN9QzyI7Y_

Amazing footage stills.

John


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## TheMustangRider (Jan 18, 2012)

Readie said:


> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0apN9QzyI7Y_
> 
> Amazing footage stills.
> 
> John




As well as the great song the uploader chose for the video.


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## fastmongrel (Jan 18, 2012)

There is a film on youtube showing a B24 getting hit in the inner wing by a bomb. It just folds up like a paper plane I wont look for a link to it because after seeing it once it still haunts me. 

How could people keep on going when they knew the risks, its something I hope my children never have to find the answer to.


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## model299 (Jan 18, 2012)

fastmongrel said:


> There is a film on youtube showing a B24 getting hit in the inner wing by a bomb. It just folds up like a paper plane........



I first saw that clip on the old "World At War" episode on the European bombing campaign.

Iffen I recall correctly, the bombs from the aircraft above fall between the #1 and #2 engines, before the fatal one lodges in the wing just behind the leading edge. A small fire breaks out for a few seconds before the wing collapses and the aircraft disappears.

EDIT: Here it is. 
_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLNESDqoZS4_

The bombs fall between the #2 and the fuselage.

It all happened pretty quickly. I doubt anyone made it out. RIP boys.


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## oldcrowcv63 (Jan 18, 2012)

fastmongrel said:


> How could people keep on going when they knew the risks, its something I hope my children never have to find the answer to.



Fast, 

While in training in 1970, I discoverd one of my instructors had flown with VO-67 (VO-67 Association - Update Page) a USN squadron of 12 P-2V Neptunes tasked with dropping sonopbouys as automatic listening posts from 500 feet over the Ho Chi Minh Trail (using the norden bombsight!!!). Asyou might imagine things freuquently got hot for them in the triple-A way. Their unit of 12 aircraft was active for a little over a year (Feb 1967 - July 1968) and then disestablished. They suffered 25% casualities which is pretty high for a unit originally trained to chase submarines on the open ocean. I asked him how they dealt with the risk, and the apparently fairly high probability they wouldn't survive their tour. I'll never forget his answer. "You can get used to anything [at least for a while]" It's something I think about whenever I get whinny about having a bad day. To all those guys in every generation:


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## drgondog (Jan 19, 2012)

Guys - that looked very much like a direct hit from flak - not a bomb crashing from above..


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## TheMustangRider (Jan 19, 2012)

I too have seen the clip from time to time in documentaries, and it gives the impression to be flak exploding beneath the bomber.
I wonder is there is a written account of the crew which filmed the final moments of that B-24.


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## tyrodtom (Jan 19, 2012)

oldcrowcv63 said:


> Fast,
> 
> While in training in 1970, I discoverd one of my instructors had flown with VO-67 (VO-67 Association - Update Page) a USN squadron of 12 P-2V Neptunes tasked with dropping sonopbouys as automatic listening posts from 500 feet over the Ho Chi Minh Trail (using the norden bombsight!!!). Asyou might imagine things freuquently got hot for them in the triple-A way. Their unit of 12 aircraft was active for a little over a year (Feb 1967 - July 1968) and then disestablished. They suffered 25% casualities which is pretty high for a unit originally trained to chase submarines on the open ocean. I asked him how they dealt with the risk, and the apparently fairly high probability they wouldn't survive their tour. I'll never forget his answer. "You can get used to anything [at least for a while]" It's something I think about whenever I get whinny about having a bad day. To all those guys in every generation:


 I was at Nakhon Phanom RTAFB in Thailand in 67-68 when VO-67 was flying it's missions from there. Nobody knew what their mission was, but that was no different from anything else at NKP, all we knew for sure was that we were in Thailand.

I remember we were all shocked when 2 aircraft were lost about a month apart, lost with all aboard, and we wondered why such a big crew for a 2 engine aircraft ( 2 engines, not counting the aux. jets)

Glad to see those mens remains were finally found, and buried in native soil.


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## oldcrowcv63 (Jan 19, 2012)

tyrodtom said:


> Glad to see those mens remains were finally found, and buried in native soil.



Concur



tyrodtom said:


> "...we wondered why such a big crew for a 2 engine aircraft."



It was the USN which means there can be but one reason: _Tradition!_ 

Seriously:

Let's see: Pilot (PC), 2P, Nav, Ordnanceman, Sono (accoustic) Tech. Radar Tech, TACCO (mission commander), Radioman, Flight Engineer. 

In 1971, I mangaged to catch a short maritime patrol training hop in a reserve P-2 and it was an interesting experience. On preflight, the crew looked to make sure oil was leaking from the recips so it was safe to fly!!! The TACCO also set a watch out the top hatch to make sure nothing fell off the plane on the way to the runway. Spent most of the low level flight residing in the otherwise unoccupied nose greenhouse. It was a trip back in time to an earlier age. I think I counted every breeching whale in the Straights of Juan De Fuca


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## syscom3 (Jan 19, 2012)

model299 said:


> I first saw that clip on the old "World At War" episode on the European bombing campaign.
> 
> Iffen I recall correctly, the bombs from the aircraft above fall between the #1 and #2 engines, before the fatal one lodges in the wing just behind the leading edge. A small fire breaks out for a few seconds before the wing collapses and the aircraft disappears.
> 
> ...




If you read the comments on the youtube video, someone researched the whole incident and indicates that it was flak that hit the bomber and not a stray bomb.

The AC in question belonged to the 494th BG, based on Palau.


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## model299 (Jan 19, 2012)

syscom3 said:


> If you read the comments on the youtube video, someone researched the whole incident and indicates that it was flak that hit the bomber and not a stray bomb.
> 
> The AC in question belonged to the 494th BG, based on Palau.



Thanks syscom. After playing it several times, that's probably true. 

I've made it a personal policy over my years of using the internet to avoid reading "the comments" as the vast majority of them are usually pretty inane and just plain ignorant.


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## TheMustangRider (Jan 19, 2012)

model299 said:


> Thanks syscom. After playing it several times, that's probably true.
> 
> I've made it a personal policy over my years of using the internet to avoid reading "the comments" as the vast majority of them are usually pretty inane and just plain ignorant.



I couldn't agree more with you, even the greatest video can be ruined by some stupid comment beneath it.


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## Milosh (Jan 19, 2012)

On Apr 8 1945 a flak hit took of the wing of B-17 _Wee Willie_ of the 91st BG at the fuselage. Some of the crew got out, including the pilot 1/Lt Robert Fuller. _Wee Willie_ had completed more than 120 missions.


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## syscom3 (Jan 19, 2012)

TheMustangRider said:


> I couldn't agree more with you, even the greatest video can be ruined by some stupid comment beneath it.



He claimed he researched the video and had documented proof, including the MACR. I'd say he knows a heck of a lot more about it then anyone else.

"I know the specific of the incident cuz my Dad was in the B-24 following about 500 ft higher. I've a copy of the mission rpt , the MACR (missing air crew rpt), talked w/members of my Dad's crew met/talked w/the Bombardier in the B-24 flying in front of the BRIEF. I all the footage stills of the incident retrieved from the Nat. Archives and additional eye-witness reports. Lt. Custer my Dad were in the same class shipped out together. It was a flak shell and I have all the proof.

raf1231D 1 year ago"



"This B-24M-15-CO , Serial number 44-42058 was with the USAAF 7thAF, 494th BG (H), 867th BS.
It was named 'Brief' (or ) 'The Brief'.
It took off from the island of Angaur, (part of the Palau group of islands) , on a mission targeting Japanese Anti-Aircraft positions located on KOROR, on May 4th, 1945. It was shot down by Flak./A.A
The wreckage lies just south of Koror at position 7', 20'N 134', 29E.

twinstu50 1 year ago"


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## MikeGazdik (Jan 20, 2012)

I had always assumed it was a flak hit on that well known video. Watching it in freeze frame, I think it is for sure. The bombs being dropped are off to its right, or 5 o'clock. If you catch the freeze right, you can see the wing surface explode upward. Not sure because of black and white, but at first what looks like fire is the fuel bursting from the wing, which then ignites as the wing folds. The worst of worst for the crew. RIP.


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## mhuxt (Jan 20, 2012)

Its a raid on Palau, my money is on a bomb from above, especially as no flak bursts visible.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lioRCye2Dug_


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## drgondog (Jan 20, 2012)

There is no bomb visible above that B-24 although there is a string dropped from another B-24 in the background. 

Had a stray bomb done the damage it would have been visible in all the frames of the photography. Syscom is correct about the sequence and ID - it is also one of the most famous sequences for B-24s taken during the war.

As to no flak bursts visible what do you suppose the explosion, flame and structural failure might be?


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## Milosh (Jan 20, 2012)

The AA shell going thru the wing and igniting the fuel.

There is a series of stills on the web (can't find the link right now).


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## TheMustangRider (Jan 20, 2012)

syscom3 said:


> He claimed he researched the video and had documented proof, including the MACR. I'd say he knows a heck of a lot more about it then anyone else.



I was not referring to that specific informative comment on that video syscom, I welcome posts on YT documentaries that give a useful insight to the video and come from knowledgeable, respectful and mature people.
What I'm against is the vast numbers of trolls going from video to video making a mockery of the men who fought the war; out of ignorance, hate or extreme biased opinion.


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## oldcrowcv63 (Jan 20, 2012)

mhuxt said:


> Its a raid on Palau, my money is on a bomb from above, especially as no flak bursts visible.
> 
> 
> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lioRCye2Dug_




Seems to me misinterpretation is due to an optical illusion created by the bombs being dropped from the B-24 that was hit. They appear to line up with the bombs in the background.


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## TheMustangRider (Jan 20, 2012)

oldcrowcv63 said:


> Seems to me misinterpretation is due to an optical illusion created by the bombs being dropped from the B-24 that was hit. They appear to line up with the bombs in the background.



It seems to me that way as well, I would not discard the possibility of an internal explosion/structural damage.


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