# HELP NEEDED - Source for .303 Brownings for Hurricane



## Crimea_River (Sep 8, 2015)

Appealing to the masses here for help in sourcing ten MkII .303 Browning MGs for our Hurricane MkXII restoration (http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/warbird-displays/calgarys-hurricane-move-34551.html?highlight=calgary+hurricane)

North American sources preferred. We have secured 2 already for a reasonable price and units for sale in England cost substantially more. DEWAT or operational units acceptable.


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## Airframes (Sep 8, 2015)

A tough one Andy. Would very realistic replicas be acceptable ?
Genuine weapons, obviously 'De-act' of this type are relatively hard to come by, and command stupid prices due to their nature, unlike, for example WW2 type, but post-war manufactured small arms (infantry), such as the Bren gun, and even those,commonly ex- reserve stock Australian issue, are fairly expensive these days. 
I can ask some of my contacts from a few years ago, but, as they were mainly involved with 'non- aviation' weapons, it's doubtful if they can help.
However, the guys at The Shuttleworth Collection, for example, have manufactured very accurate Brownings for the rebuild of their Spitfire MkV and, although basic replicas could be made by virtually any engineering shop, the above have their drawings, have made some examples, and could, I would think, produce more if needed, more accurately, and relatively easier, than 'Joe Bloggs' around the corner.
Admittedly, it would be costly if you had them, or a similar outfit, make ten for you, especially adding the cost of shipping, and the difficult Customs and security clearance costs, but I would think it would be a darned sight less costly than the real thing.
BTW, The Shuttleworth Collection is at Old Warden, about a half hour drive from where we'll all be staying for the DX weekend.
It might be a long-shot, but, they might be able to help, or advise, for a 'fellow' preservation organisation / museum.
Here's a pic of one of the Brownings they've produced, which, had I not read the notes alongside, I would have taken as the real item.


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## Crimea_River (Sep 8, 2015)

Thanks Terry. We can make replicas with museum contacts here locally but that's our last resort since preference would be to have original units. The market over here is reasonably active and the guns are not as rare as you might imagine; our president lucked into a local contact who had 2 and we got them for about $2500 for the pair but we've exhausted our local availability. 2500 is the cost in POUNDS for ONE that I see for sale in England. I'm therefore staying away from the English market as stated, and am keen to tap into the market in the US as I'm told there should be a better chance of landing what we need.

Ideally, we would get units made at the Inglis plant in Toronto during the war - the two we got are Inglis ones - as these were shipped to the Canadian aircraft manufacturers and would have been the ones installed in our Mk XII.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 9, 2015)

Dang, Terry - that Type G.45 gun camera looks like it would be a little rough on the people sitting in on a portrait photo...


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## nuuumannn (Sep 9, 2015)

> Dang, Terry - that Type G.45 gun camera looks like it would be a little rough on the people sitting in on a portrait photo



 Getting the sitters to smile might be a little hard...


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## Airframes (Sep 9, 2015)

Yeah "Hey, Hans. Just look over your shoulder and smile whilst I take a pic of you. Oh, and sorry about the tracers old chap!"

I understand Andy, and you're right. The prices on the UK market have gone really silly. For example, not many years ago, a deactivated, but otherwise functioning, Lee Enfield No.4 rifle, in excellent condition, cost round £95 - now they're in excess of £400 !!!
I hope you can find what you need.


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## fubar57 (Sep 9, 2015)

Airframes said:


> . For example, not many years ago, a deactivated, but otherwise functioning, Lee Enfield No.4 rifle, in excellent condition, cost round £95 - now they're in excess of £400 !!!
> I hope you can find what you need.



£400??? For a deactivated??? I have a functional 1916 Lee Enfield with bayonet. Hmmmm!!!


Geo


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## GrauGeist (Sep 9, 2015)

Firearm related prices went batsh!t crazy in Britain after they passed the firearms laws in 1997.

You'll notice that firearm prices (and ammo, accessories, etc.) in the U.S. tend to increase whenever an attempt at restrictions or a ban/law is put into place.


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## Airframes (Sep 9, 2015)

Yep, and in the UK, the laws regarding de-activated, replica and blank-firing replicas, and even toy guns, changed again, more than once, between around 2007 and 2009. This was due to criminals re-activating some weapons, including 'converting' blank-firing weapons to fire a .22 round.
Such things as 'Air Soft' weapons can now only be bought, in person, _not_ on-line, in bright colours, rather than the 'natural' colour, unless the purchaser is a member of a recognised club or organisation, and it's the same for replica and blank-firers too.
It's now an offence to own or carry such de-acts etc, with a minimum period of 5 years in jail for each section of an offence, without the proper authorisation, which means if a person was found with one, in his car for example, he'd get two sentences, each of 5 years, for 'owning' and 'carrying' !
I have a very nice, 'old' de-act Chinese Type 56/1, in excellent condition, which I picked up from a friend cheap, but it's now valued at around £250 to £350, due to it's type, and being 'old' de-act, meaning the working parts are still present and function, but bolt face, firing pin and piston have been cut off, for example, and fortunately I have the proper documentation to go with it. Current de-act laws require everything, including the trigger, to be welded, resulting in a lump of steel and wood which just happens to look like a weapon !
BTW, the Type 56/1 is a Chinese version of the AK-47 (AKM) with the machined receiver, rather than pressed, and the folding butt.


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## Crimea_River (Sep 9, 2015)

OK guys, back on track please. Any of you US gun collectors have contacts? websites?

GregP, any contacts through Chino? Haven't seen DavetheWW2Nut arround lately. Any contacts used by Yagen's group?


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