# Dornier Do-17 215, EXCELLENT Luftwaffe bomber



## Fafnir (Jun 19, 2005)

It is often said the Ju-88 was Germany's "Schnell bomber" (fast bomber), one so fast it could outrun enemy fighters. Well, the fact is the Spitfire, Hurricane, and Dewotine 520 could easily catch it and shoot it down. 
The Ju-88 was fast only in the Luftwaffe's dream.

The Do-17 when it started service _was_ faster then anything the Spanish had. Losses where far greater from AA and accidents then air-to-air.

It was also maneuverable, as written by its pilots, but also those that tried to shoot them down (reported by RAF flyers in Hurricanes and Spitfires!)

Why was it pulled from front line service in mid 1941? The Do-217 was put in full production, can could carry 4000kg the bomb-load. While the He-177 and Ju-288 could not replace the earlier He-111 and Ju-88.

BEFORE you start posting, check out this web site. 
Dornier Do-17 and 215 facts and info


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 19, 2005)

I believe what you are referring to is the fact that at the beginning of the war the Ju-88 was faster than its primary enemy at the time. Yes the Hurricane adn the Spit were faster but when the Ju-88 came out it was pretty fast for a bomber.

The thing that made the Ju-88 so good was its versatility. It coudl be used for anything.

The 217 was a pretty good bomber and just not used to its advantage.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 19, 2005)

2 things to also look at. How hard was the -17 to maintain in the field and how easy was it to produce? This may be another reason why it was pulled from front line service so soon.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 19, 2005)

I think it was pulled just because it was quickly outdated.


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 20, 2005)

I thought it was the Ju-188 that replaced the Ju-88? In so far as much as ive read the Ju-188 was built in fair numbers and was pretty good. The Ju-488 and Do-317 would have been interesting...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 20, 2005)

The Ju-88 was never really replaced. It was supposed to be the replacement and yes it was better in performance. Only about 1036 were built however.

*Type:* Bomber (D-2 Reconnaissance)
*Origin:* Junkers Flugzeug und Motorenwerke AG
*Models:* Ju 188A, D and E series
*Crew:* Five
*First Flight:*
Ju 88B-0: Early 1940
Ju 88V27: September 1941
Ju 188V1: December 1941
Ju 188E-1: March 1942
*Final Delivery:* 1945-46 (French built)
*Number Produced:* 1,100

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Engine: *
*Ju 188A Ju 188D:*
Model: Junkers Jumo 213A
Type: 12-Cylinder inverted liquid cooled vee
Number: Two Horsepower: 1,776 hp

*Ju 188E:*
Model: BMW 801G-2
Type: 18-Cylinder two-row radials
Number: Two Horsepower: 1,700 hp

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Dimensions:*
Wing span: 72 ft. 2 in. (22m)
Length: 49 ft. 1 in. (14.96m)
Height: 14 ft. 7 in. (4.44m)
Wing Surface Area: 602.80 sq. ft.

*Weights: *
Empty:
Ju 188E-1: 21,825 lb. (9900 kg)
Loaded:
Ju 188A D: 33,730 lb. (15,300 kg)
Ju 188E-1: 31,967 lb. (14,500 kg)
Performance:
*Maximum Speed:*
Ju 188A: 325 mph at 20,500 ft. (6250m)
Ju 188D: 350 mph at 27,000 ft. (8235m)
Ju 188E: 310 mph at 19,685 ft. (6000m)
*Initial Climb:* N/A
*Service Ceiling:*
Ju 188A: 33,000 ft. (10,060m)
Ju 188D: 36,090 ft. (11,000m)
Ju 188A: 31,170 ft. (9500m)
*Range with 3,300 lb. (1500kg) bomb load:*
Ju 188A E: 1,360 miles (2160 km) 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Armament:* Typical.
One 20mm MG 151/20 cannon in nose.

One 13mm MG 131 machine gun in dorsal turret.

One 13mm MG 131 machine gun manually aimed from rear dorsal position.

One 13mm MG 131 machine gun or 
twin 7.92mm MG 81 machine gun manually aimed from rear ventral position.

*Payload:* Typical.
6,614 lb. (3000kg) of bombs internally or two 2,200 lb. (1000kg) torpedos under inner wings.


I think the Ju-188S and Ju-188T would have been interesting had they been developed more. They were built but never tried with a defensive armament. I believe these two could have been good interceptors with bomber killer armament.



> High-altitude versions
> In 1943 it was planned to upgrade the entire lineup with even more wing area and a pressurized cockpit for high-altitude work. A single basic airframe would be offered in three versions, the Ju 188J heavy fighter, Ju 188K bomber, and the Ju 188L reconnaissance version. All three did away with the under-slung gunner's compartment, leading to a cleaner nose profile, and the bomber and recce versions mounted their loads in a long pannier under the middle of the plane instead of the deeper fuselage of the G and H models.
> 
> Simpler versions of these with no defensive armament and even longer wings became the Ju 188S fighter and Ju 188T intruder. With Jumo 213E-1 engines 2,100 hp (1,544 kW) at take-off and 1,690 hp (1,243 kW) at 31,400 ft (9,570 m), the Ju 188T could reach 435 mph (700 km/h). Operating at this altitude, the Ju 188S could carry only 800 kg of bombs.
> ...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 20, 2005)

a damned ugly brute.........


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 21, 2005)

I think she was quite attractive. Kind of reminds me of a hornet or wasp.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 21, 2005)

but that cockpit is huge and ugly!!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 21, 2005)

I guess it is just a matter of personal taste.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 21, 2005)

> it is just a matter of personal taste



which you are obviously lacking


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 21, 2005)

Everyone has personal taste...its not possible to not have it...Nothing wrong the 188 though. Not good looking but there are far uglier out there.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 21, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> > it is just a matter of personal taste
> 
> 
> 
> which you are obviously lacking



I dont know you happen to like the Lanc....that does not say much!  

No really I happen to like some of the wierder designs such as the 188, Ju-288, and espeically the Ju-388.


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 22, 2005)

I agree there, the Ju-388 is a sexy looking beast 8)


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## mosquitoman (Jun 22, 2005)

I don't like the nose- sticks out too much


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 22, 2005)

On the 288 maybe, but not the 388.


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## mosquitoman (Jun 22, 2005)

It's the weird cockpit perspex aswell


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 22, 2005)

that doesn't actually look too bad!! 

(there, i said something good about a plane that wasn't british, happy now!! look what you've reduced me to  )


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 22, 2005)

No lanc youre finally in the right, it does look good!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 22, 2005)

but this doesn't mean i'm not patriotic!!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 23, 2005)

Admitting a plane looks good has nothing to do with patriotism.


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 23, 2005)

Do-17 shot down on 21st October 1940.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 23, 2005)

Ouch that one looks like it hurt!


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 23, 2005)

Sure is a mess.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 23, 2005)

That one still looks survivable though.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 23, 2005)

Alder said:


> Admitting a plane looks good has nothing to do with patriotism.



you really don't get me do you


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 24, 2005)

I guess not.


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 24, 2005)

No-one gets you lanc....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 24, 2005)

Yes you can be excentric!


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 24, 2005)




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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 24, 2005)

So can you CC!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 25, 2005)

you're lack of pride in your country Disgusts me CC!!


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 25, 2005)

This is my country...... 

...See!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 25, 2005)

Lanc is going to turn into a skinhead!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 25, 2005)

i most cirtainly am not............


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 27, 2005)

Just ruffeling your feathers again. Maybe I should start picking on CC for a while!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 27, 2005)

na i don't mind you picking on me, it's quite funny most of the time.........


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 27, 2005)

Well thankyou, but I think it is CC's time.


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