# looking for help-new guy. captured focke-wulf190



## h.whiteman (Mar 29, 2008)

i need your help, i'm looking for photographs of a focke-wulf fw-190a that was captured and flown by the 85th fighter squadron, 79th fighter group of 12th usaaf in mto. the aircraft appears on wikipedia in a parked on the ground photo. the aircraft is red overall with yellow wings with red wingtips. it has a yellow fuselage band and yellow horizontal stabilizer with red tips. it has us markings(white star in blue roundel). the plane also bears the squadron insignia of the 85th fighter squadron (flying skulls)(http://members.aol.co/brimiljeep/WebPages/SquadronPatchAAFPage.html) my father had an aerial photo of this aircraft with him as pilot taken from another aircraft. i can't seem to locate that photo---i need your help? that same photo(a copy) was published in "wings"a sentry magazine some time between 1990-1997 with the feature article on the focke-wulf fw-190 and its variants. i hope someone out there can help. thanks in advance. h.whiteman.


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## thirtybg (Mar 29, 2008)

This one, yes?








Perhaps this is the in-flight shot you mentioned...







And a few others...
















There's also this bird, which _may_ have been a different airframe. I'm not entirely sure, though. I seem to recall mention in the group history that the 79th FG captured two 190s... will try to dig that up.


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## Thorlifter (Mar 29, 2008)

Nice job thirtybg!


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## h.whiteman (Mar 29, 2008)

great response. thank you ,better than i would have imagined. there is still that photo of this particular aircraft with aerial photo flying in close formation with the aircraft from which photo taken. the head(face) of the pilot of the fock-wulf is clearly visible. hope someone can help? interestingly enough the 79th fighter group flew captured messerschmitt bf-109, junkers ju-88, and the focke-wulf fw-190 aircraft. the "wings of the luftwaffe" series on the military channel telvision shows the captured junkers ju-88 with the 79th fighter group insignia on the nose beneath the canopy( the egyptian falcon) and similar captured color scheme. back half of the aircraft is painted yellow with us national insignia. i don't recall the bf-109 color scheme but do recall photo with unit credited as the operator of that aircraft. still trying to find that picture from the "wings"a sentry magazine article that duplicated the photo my father had that he said was him as pilot. still hopefull. thanks for the great respons so far. h.whiteman.


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## Wurger (Mar 29, 2008)

Yep,I'm with Thorlifter.


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## h.whiteman (Mar 29, 2008)

many thanks. i really appreciate the help. you don't happen to have subscribed to "wings" a sentry magazine and have access to the feature article on the focke-wulf fw-190---still looking for that particular photo with my dad. he first flew in 1937, a boeing p-12e and retired in 1970 after 32 years of flying fighters and bombers in three wars. thanks again,hope you or someone can help. h.whiteman.


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## thirtybg (Mar 29, 2008)

You're welcome, guy...

I'll look through the Wings/Airpower rags I have from the 90s and see what can be seen.

You mentioned the 79th FG 109... this was a Bf 109G-2 from 2.(H)/14, coded '14' (black) and named 'Irmgard'. (So-named after the crew-chief's girlfriend.) Here's a few shots of this ship, for anyone who may be interested.

Here she is before application of US markings.





NARA


And after.










From Falcon's 109 Hangar


Here she is with an 87th FS emblem on the fuselage. This was applied to both sides. This emblem was eventually replaced by that of the 86th FS, shown in the next photo.







'Irmgard' eventually wound up at Wright Field and is seen here undergoing static testing. Note the replacement port wing. The original port wing can be seen off to the side, behind the tail.







I also have a photo of 'Irmgard' in my collection but seem to have misplaced the digital file. I'll post it when I find it.


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## Wurger (Mar 29, 2008)




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## Wayne Little (Mar 30, 2008)

Very nice shots.....8)


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## h.whiteman (Mar 31, 2008)

thirtybg, iam continually amazed at your selflessness and willingness to help someone you don't know. thank you. i found your information on the messerschmitt bf-109 captured br the 79th fighter group very interesting. i guess i'm surprised the information is still out there in the ethernet. you haven't seen photos of the junkers ju-88 the 79th fighter group operated have you? still trying to find that photo of the captured focke-wulf in flight. thanks again,h.whiteman. p.s. do you have a connection to the 79th fighter group?


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## phoenix7187 (Mar 31, 2008)

Those are some great pics. I like the pics of captured aircraft. I recently found out the red airforce had a group of 190D-9's they flew against the reich. I found that funny.


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## Micdrow (Mar 31, 2008)

Sweet shots there thirtybg


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## thirtybg (Apr 1, 2008)

Hal, I don't have any connection with the 79th FG. I'm just an amateur USAAF historian type, and the 79th falls within my main interests in that it operated the P-40 Warhawk.

As to the Ju 88, I have a bit of conflicting info concerning the variant, but most sources state that it was a Ju 88A. It was known as 'Comanche' after the 86th FS 'Comanches'. I don't believe that I have any photos of this ship while it was still with the group, but here's a few taken during its time at Freeman Field, Indiana after the war. This ship was given the evaluation number FE-1599.

Note the 86th FS insignia on the nose in this first shot...





H.G. Martin photo, from Robert J. Pickett collection (IndianaMilitary.org)





From unknown publication





From a copy slide in my collection


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## Wurger (Apr 1, 2008)

It is a great stuff Thirtybg.Thahks for uploading here.  
It seems that many of captured German planes and tested in the USA were painted with yellow colour.

Here is a pic of Ju88 with another kind of painting.

Source unknown.


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## Denniss (Apr 3, 2008)

phoenix7187 said:


> Those are some great pics. I like the pics of captured aircraft. I recently found out the red airforce had a group of 190D-9's they flew against the reich. I found that funny.



No, that's only a postwar propaganda photo. They were never used in service.


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## h.whiteman (Apr 8, 2008)

i've managed to find out where the photo is---the photo of my father flying the captured focke-wulf190 mentioned above. the photo is photo #9 in a feature article regarding the focke-wulf 190 in "wings" magazine volume 14, number 1-february 1984. i still don't have the picture ,but maybe---. i was certainly off on the time frame i guessimated. anyway, thought you might like to know of my progress. regards,h.whiteman.


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## h.whiteman (Apr 8, 2008)

you're absolutely correct that is the 86th fighter squadron insignia on the left side of the nose of the fuselage. the "wings of the luftwaffe" episode on the junkers ju-88 shows the same captured ju-88. on the right side of the nose of the fuselage is the egyptian falcon insignia of the 79th fighter group. the aircraft probably carried both the squadron and group insignia. check it out---it is interesting footage of a ju-88 warm-up and flight. best regards,h.whiteman.


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## h.whiteman (Apr 8, 2008)

from what i understand the captured color scheme you see adopted by this particular fighter group (79th fighter group, 12th usaaf) was an attempt to provide quick identification of captured aircraft. since some of the aerial engagements were subject to atmospheric conditions(clouds, sun, haze/fog,etc.) it was extremely important to be quickly be able to identify these aircraft as non-threatening and not a attack element. the colors were pretty much limited to theatres of combat. i think the stateside captured aircraft had their national markings reapplied with a "fe" or foreign evaluation number applied. at least comtemporary photos seem to suggest this. hope that helps,h.whiteman.


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