# A Queen question for our British cousins. (actually everyone, but them, mostly)



## meatloaf109 (Apr 10, 2012)

Really more than one but they are all tied together. 
I heard on the tube that the Queen gave some sort-of honor to Camilla, and they showed a large gold and white decoration.
1) Is this thing real, I mean, solid gold or something?
2)Does she get to keep it, as in, is there one made everytime the Queen throws one of these around?
And if the above are both affirmative,
3) Who pays for all this stuff?
I am just curious, don't want to start a pro/anti-royals thing.


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## Njaco (Apr 10, 2012)

and don't want to get political or the thread will be closed.


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## herman1rg (Apr 10, 2012)

This may help

BBC News - The Queen makes Camilla a Dame Grand Cross


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## stona (Apr 10, 2012)

I expect the answer to both 1 and 2 is yes.
Assuming that to be the case then you can be certain that we,the British tax payers,ultimately pay for it.
Cheers
Steve


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 10, 2012)

Njaco said:


> and don't want to get political or the thread will be closed.


Absolutely.


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 10, 2012)

herman1rg said:


> This may help
> 
> BBC News - The Queen makes Camilla a Dame Grand Cross



Thanks.
I find it interesting that the order is named for Queen Victoria; to my limited colonial mind, She presided over a peroid known for it's straight-laced propriety.(Never mind her own personal life.)
To award this to a former mistress, (consort?) however well reguarded now, seems...well, odd!


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## Lucky13 (Apr 10, 2012)

Didn't Terry get the same thing, Dame Of The Grand Cat?

*Leaves the room hastily!*


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## Hop (Apr 10, 2012)

> 1) Is this thing real, I mean, solid gold or something?



According to Wiki: 



> For Knights and Dames Grand Cross, Commanders, and Lieutenants, the Maltese cross is rendered in white enamel with gold edging, while that for Knights and Dames Commander and Members is in silver.[5] Further, the size of the badge varies by rank, that for the higher classes being larger, and Knights and Dames Grand Cross and Knights and Dames Commander have their crosses surrounded by a star: for the former, an eight-pointed silver star, and for the latter, an eight-pointed silver Maltese cross with silver rays between each arm.



It certainly doesn't look like there's much gold involved. 



> 2)Does she get to keep it, as in, is there one made everytime the Queen throws one of these around?



Yes. 



> 3) Who pays for all this stuff?



At a guess I'd say it varies. Some orders are granted by the monarch personally, most are handed out by the government in the monarch's name. I'm pretty sure the government pays for the awards they grant, the queen probably pays for those that she awards personally.


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## stona (Apr 10, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> Thanks.
> I find it interesting that the order is named for Queen Victoria; to my limited colonial mind, She presided over a peroid known for it's straight-laced propriety.(Never mind her own personal life.)
> To award this to a former mistress, (consort?) however well reguarded now, seems...well, odd!



Times change! I can see your point though.

Historically Kings often made their mistresses Duchesses. Officially this was for reasons of etiquette,to give them a rank in court which everyone understood. Some courtiers might not have liked it but a Duchess was a Duchess and had to be treated as such,at least publicly.

The Duchess of Cornwall (Camilla) is thus entitled because she is the wife of the Duke of Cornwall (one of Prince Charles' many titles). This was considered the least contentious title that she could adopt when the two were married. She is entitled to be called The Princess of Wales but,probably wisely,decided to forgo that title which her predecessor had made her own. Diana Princess of Wales by the way,not Princess Diana. Only a Princess Royal,that is by blood,not a Princess by marriage is addressed that way. Princess Anne,as a daughter of the Queen is a Princess Royal.

If Prince Charles accedes to the throne the Duchess of Cornwall WILL be Queen Camilla,whatever the pretence was on their marriage. The consorts of English/British Kings have enjoyed that title for a very,very long time.

Cheers
Steve


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 10, 2012)

I find it interesting that there is a donation box at the Tower Of London to help pay for the Royal Jewels. Needless to say, I did not donate any time that I have visited it. I have no problem donating to museums or what not, but not to "any" royal family.


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 10, 2012)

stona said:


> Times change! I can see your point though.
> 
> Historically Kings often made their mistresses Duchesses. Officially this was for reasons of etiquette,to give them a rank in court which everyone understood. Some courtiers might not have liked it but a Duchess was a Duchess and had to be treated as such,at least publicly.
> 
> ...


Interesting, so a divorced woman can become Queen now.
I wonder what Edward and Mrs. Simpson would say? I have long thought that one of the reasons she was hated so much was the fact that she was unable to produce an heir.
(The whole twice divorced American who alledgely learned her skills in a cat house thing, aside.)


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 10, 2012)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I find it interesting that there is a donation box at the Tower Of London to help pay for the Royal Jewels. Needless to say, I did not donate any time that I have visited it. I have no problem donating to museums or what not, but not to "any" royal family.


I would have found it strange if you had!


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## gumbyk (Apr 10, 2012)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I find it interesting that there is a donation box at the Tower Of London to help pay for the Royal Jewels. Needless to say, I did not donate any time that I have visited it. I have no problem donating to museums or what not, but not to "any" royal family.



Adler, From what I remember, the Crown Jewels are not owned by the Royal family, they are owned by the state and held in trust, as are most of the estates. The family are by no means poor, but most of the displayed wealth is in fact owned by the state.


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## Readie (Apr 10, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> Thanks.
> I find it interesting that the order is named for Queen Victoria; to my limited colonial mind, She presided over a peroid known for it's straight-laced propriety.(Never mind her own personal life.)
> To award this to a former mistress, (consort?) however well reguarded now, seems...well, odd!




ML..Camilla is not that loved or well regarded here. Diana was the 'people's princess' and the events that unfolded leading to her mysterious death have led to all sorts of theories.
What we do know is that the 'Rottweiler' aka Camilla Barker Bowles was always in the background.....

John


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## oldcrowcv63 (Apr 11, 2012)

Readie said:


> ML..Camilla is not that loved or well regarded here. Diana was the 'people's princess' and the events that unfolded leading to her mysterious death have led to all sorts of theories.
> What we do know is that the 'Rottweiler' aka Camilla Barker Bowles was always in the background..... John



Now, here is the basis for a conspiracy I can buy into. Which only proves one person's conspiracy-basis is just another's tragedy. 

Step away from the thread, Old Crow, and do it slowly with both hands in the air....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 11, 2012)

gumbyk said:


> Adler, From what I remember, the Crown Jewels are not owned by the Royal family, they are owned by the state and held in trust, as are most of the estates. The family are by no means poor, but most of the displayed wealth is in fact owned by the state.



Even less reason to help pay for them.


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## buffnut453 (Apr 11, 2012)

Why so? The Tower of London and the Crown Jewels receive huge numbers of visitors from outside the UK every year. Why should all the cost of maintaining those displays fall on the UK taxpayer? Should we apply your principle to the $15 "parking fee" to visit the NASM's Udvar Hazy Center?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 11, 2012)

Like I said, I have no problem paying for museums and what not, I just don't believe in "donating" money to pay for something the govt. should be taking care of anyhow. I don't believe the UK taxpayer should be paying for it either, but rather the Queen and her family themselves. The taxpayer probably already pay too much anyhow. 

Comparing parking fees to this, is like comparing apples and oranges. I would have no problem paying a parking fee at the Tower of London. Besides people pay entrance fees at the Tower of London (which they should). I sure as hell am not going to donate though, to help keep crown jewels in pristine condition. That should fall on the monarchy themselves in my opinion.


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## buffnut453 (Apr 11, 2012)

But the jewels aren't owned by the Royal Family. They're symbols of State. The Government (courtesy of the UK taxpayer) does fund a great deal of the upkeep but they're such a popular attraction, and so bluddy expensive to secure and insure, that I think it only fair that foreign visitors should also contribute to their maintenance. 

My analogy wasn't to parking fees, or entrance fees, in general but to the specific cost of getting into the Udvar Hazy Center. All the other Smithsonian facilities are free to enter so why the parking fee at Dulles?Essentially it is an entrance fee. The aircraft therein are owned by the US nation and the facilities are maintained by the US nation (ie by US taxpayers...like me) so I think the analogy with the Crown Jewels is actually quite a propos. However, I digress...


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## Readie (Apr 11, 2012)

Come on chaps..

Are you visiting to join in the Queens diamond jubilee celebrations in June?

Its a once in a life time opportunity

John


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## pbfoot (Apr 11, 2012)

Be right there keep the lights on


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## gumbyk (Apr 11, 2012)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Like I said, I have no problem paying for museums and what not, I just don't believe in "donating" money to pay for something the govt. should be taking care of anyhow. I don't believe the UK taxpayer should be paying for it either, but rather the Queen and her family themselves. The taxpayer probably already pay too much anyhow.
> 
> Comparing parking fees to this, is like comparing apples and oranges. I would have no problem paying a parking fee at the Tower of London. Besides people pay entrance fees at the Tower of London (which they should). I sure as hell am not going to donate though, to help keep crown jewels in pristine condition. That should fall on the monarchy themselves in my opinion.



Does the president personally pay for the upkeep of the Whitehouse, or the presidential limosines?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 11, 2012)

buffnut453 said:


> But the jewels aren't owned by the Royal Family. They're symbols of State. The Government (courtesy of the UK taxpayer) does fund a great deal of the upkeep but they're such a popular attraction, and so bluddy expensive to secure and insure, that I think it only fair that foreign visitors should also contribute to their maintenance.
> 
> My analogy wasn't to parking fees, or entrance fees, in general but to the specific cost of getting into the Udvar Hazy Center. All the other Smithsonian facilities are free to enter so why the parking fee at Dulles?Essentially it is an entrance fee. The aircraft therein are owned by the US nation and the facilities are maintained by the US nation (ie by US taxpayers...like me) so I think the analogy with the Crown Jewels is actually quite a propos. However, I digress...



I hear you and I understand what you are saying. I don't feel the need to pay for the crown jewels (substitute the crown jewels for the US Presidents cuff links for all I care...). I don't feel that the UK tax payer should either. Yes I understand that they are owned by the state, but I feel the monarchy should be the ones paying for their upkeep. 

I love the UK and London, and whenever I am there, I will go and visit the Tower of London (for me it is a must for some reason). I will happily pay for the entrance fee and all that, but I will put any money in the crown jewels donation box). Just my opinion on the matter...



gumbyk said:


> Does the president personally pay for the upkeep of the Whitehouse, or the presidential limosines?



No of course not. I still think that is a bit different than the crown jewels though...



Readie said:


> Are you visiting to join in the Queens diamond jubilee celebrations in June?



Nope...

It probably would be something neat to see though.


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## parsifal (Apr 11, 2012)

The whole royal family thing should be viewed as a giant commercial enterprise. The whole phenomenon is an income generator, not a cost burden. It is robably the most successful "state run" family business in history. All that pomp and jewellry attracts tourists, sells magazines, keeps an army of people employed, and is the basis of the most stable and democratic form of government in history. Constitutional monarchy is also a very stable form of government, because of the emergency exec powers the monarch has. We have had to use it once or twice in our country, and averted a full blown crisis each time we did. 

People love monarchy and all the spectacle it brings. Dont know why, but they do. 

I think the monarchy is good valkue at twice the price, and not for reasons of any sentimental attachment


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## Readie (Apr 12, 2012)

parsifal said:


> The whole royal family thing should be viewed as a giant commercial enterprise. The whole phenomenon is an income generator, not a cost burden. It is robably the most successful "state run" family business in history. All that pomp and jewellry attracts tourists, sells magazines, keeps an army of people employed, and is the basis of the most stable and democratic form of government in history. Constitutional monarchy is also a very stable form of government, because of the emergency exec powers the monarch has. We have had to use it once or twice in our country, and averted a full blown crisis each time we did.
> 
> People love monarchy and all the spectacle it brings. Dont know why, but they do.
> 
> I think the monarchy is good valkue at twice the price, and not for reasons of any sentimental attachment



Spot on Michael.
I think QE2's funeral will signal the last of the old skool monarch's reign.
It'll be sad day, whatever side of the fence you are on.
John


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## oldcrowcv63 (Apr 12, 2012)

I think the colonials affection for the royal family grew immensely starting with Diana, Fergie and now, Kate. I am guessing, the passing of QE2 will be a huge deal here because it's seen as a milepost to children of the WW2 generation. To some extent, affection for Elizabeth will probably benefit from the film *The Kings Speech*. Depicting QE2 as a child in that flick certainly gives us a contrast between what she knew as a child and what she experienced with her own family as a mother. I think most people who have children can appreciate the difficulties that can arise when their kids grow up, marry and have their own kids. Of course, unlike the past, instead of lurid rumors, indecorous behavior becomes public as soon as they stick their nose out the door.


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## stona (Apr 12, 2012)

parsifal said:


> and is the basis of the most stable and democratic form of government in history.



Nope. That would be Parliament and the Law. Plenty of very robust and stable democracies get along just fine without a Monarchy.

Most people in the UK want to keep the Monarchy and as we live in a democracy that's what we'll do.I might not like it but,as a democrat,I accept it.
Don't tell me that we HAVE to have it or our whole system will come crashing down around our ears! I'm not buying it.

The current Queen should be remembered for the fantastic effort she has put into the Commonwealth ( along with Phil "don't stay here too long or you'll get slanty eyes" the Greek) and that is not a bad thing.

Cheers
Steve


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## Readie (Apr 12, 2012)

oldcrowcv63 said:


> I think the colonials affection for the royal family grew immensely starting with Diana, Fergie and now, Kate.



Au contraire Mal.

QE2 is a British and Commonwealth jewel in the crown. 
She is one of few people that commands respect around the world and has done for 60 years. I'll wait for the Canadian explosion...but, its true.
The royal children have done everything they could to **** up the Windsor tradition of service to country commonwealth by, as you say, indecorous behaviour and scandals.

When QE2 dies it will be a day of mourning then, we have to move on, maybe William has it in him to follow QE2, or redefine British royalties role? 
He has a head start being Diana's son that is for sure.

My parents thought more of King George V1..a lot more.

John


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## pbfoot (Apr 12, 2012)

Alls the Queen ever did for me was ruin a few days off so we could practice for an inspection by her , and I didn't care for loosing my days off so she could gawk at me (due to my height I usually got to be Right Marker) . Now if it came to a choice of seeing the Queen or The Tragically Hip the Hip would win without pause for a thought

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ySL9ZHUiQ_


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## yulzari (Apr 12, 2012)

Why do some people go on about being 'ex British colonials'? All that disappeared more than two generations ago and is ancient history to the generations of my children or grandchildren. Do the British go on about being ex Roman or ex French colonials? Do Ecuardorians go on about being ex Spanish colonials? The Spanish about being ex Maghrebian colonials? 

Modern Indians don't. To them it is rightly a piece of ancient history up there with the Moghuls. Grow up and move on. 

*Britain is a modern 21st century state forming part of Europe*. USA, Canada, Australia New Zealand et al are doubtless fine places and inhabited by fine people but Britain's neighbours are a short train or ferry ride away not a multi hour 950kmh flight. I can be English by nation, British by nationality and a European Union citizen and anywhere in the EU is my country. Maybe we could skip the British bit and return to an independent Commonwealth of England?

OK Rant over. Apologies if anyone feels offended in some way. Normal service can be resumed.


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## oldcrowcv63 (Apr 12, 2012)

yulzari said:


> Why do some people go on about being 'ex British colonials'? All that disappeared more than two generations ago and is ancient history to the generations of my children or grandchildren. *Do the British go on about being ex Roman* or ex French *colonials*? Do Ecuardorians go on about being ex Spanish colonials? The Spanish about being ex Maghrebian colonials?
> 
> Modern Indians don't. To them it is rightly a piece of ancient history up there with the Moghuls. Grow up and move on.
> 
> ...



DEEPLY OFFENDED YUL  Yet somehow, I'll find the courage (or was it corsage) to survive 

If you lived here In the USA, and got the BBC programming we import and happen to be a film devotee, you'd see a definite fascination by the British, bordering on obsession, for its Roman roots. I find it both interesting and charming at once.
Trying to think of the most recent films that celebrate that connection. *The Last Legion *(with Aishwarya Rai of all things) , *The Eagle*, *The Centurian*, *King Arthur*, to name a few... There are endless documentaries on the subject... I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a _mockumentary_ about the English enchantment with their Roman past. There was even a PBS broadcast about training to be a roman legionary in Britain. My kids and I watched it religiously. 

To say that the USA is obsessed with the breaking of her colonial ties is an understatement. As a nation, it is our defining moment. Yet, there remained a strange familial affection for the mother country that began almost as soon as the tie was severed and has survived, despite the invasion of 1812 (The Second Revolution, or The Continuation War  ) upon which the bonds forged in WW 1 and 2 were based. Common language, common faith, common culture... common traditions. I have the impression that animosity among the commonwealth nations and the USA is more similar to that amongst members of a family. The past is always with us. 

Readie, I was trying to say that the US interest in the royals has only increased due their ongoing family events and drama. QE2 has been a commendably stable institution, but lacking the drama that the media and the US Public feeds upon. The appreciation for QE2 will become quite exaggerated here due to CNN and other TV media going into a feeding frenzy at the news of her passing .


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 12, 2012)

I guess that the British empire was interesting. Island nation becomes the first great super-power, Sun never sets, Heart of oak, and all that.
By the way, thanks to France for the help in throwing the b*ggers out!


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## oldcrowcv63 (Apr 12, 2012)

Well said ML... 1776, It was time for Mom and Dad to go home.  

The fact that our French friends made it possible and then we, essentially returned to England's orbit as our most favored trading partner tells you something about how strong those familial ties actually were. We didn't really return the favor to the french until 1917 and 1944.


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## pbfoot (Apr 12, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> I guess that the British empire was interesting. Island nation becomes the first great super-power, Sun never sets, Heart of oak, and all that.
> By the way, thanks to France for the help in throwing the b*ggers out!


As one of our Prime Ministers stated the "Sun never sets as even god didn't trust them"


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 13, 2012)

yulzari said:


> Grow up and move on.



Hey chill out. Everyone here only uses it tounge in cheek, in a joking manner.


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## A4K (Apr 13, 2012)

This thread has sure strayed from it's original subject!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 13, 2012)

As always...


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 13, 2012)

That's the thing about historians, we can't help but drag out some stuffy old facts for a good airing!
By the way I still got my eye on those Canucks; they been quiet since 1812 or so... They are up to something!


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## oldcrowcv63 (Apr 13, 2012)

A4K said:


> This thread has sure strayed from it's original subject!



I can't remember what that was! 




meatloaf109 said:


> By the way I still got my eye on those Canucks; they been quiet since 1812 or so... They are up to something!



Yes, and it's a given that we can blame then for whatever disfunction that occurs down here south of the border. It's our God given right as Americans. If only Canada would give us a pretext for invasion, it would solve so many of our problems.  Of, course then we'd have to deal with the Quebecois.  Probably better to just let sleeping pit-bulls lie.


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## pbfoot (Apr 13, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> That's the thing about historians, we can't help but drag out some stuffy old facts for a good airing!
> By the way I still got my eye on those Canucks; they been quiet since 1812 or so... They are up to something!


Thats cuz you got bitch slapped then.
Remember that Madison stated in 1812 that taking Canada was only a matter of marching


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## stona (Apr 13, 2012)

yulzari said:


> Modern Indians don't. To them it is rightly a piece of ancient history up there with the Moghuls. Grow up and move on.



I am fortunate enough to have spent extended periods working in India with Indian colleagues and cannot tell you how much fun can be had with Monty Pythonesque "What did the British ever do for us?" type discussions.
Most educated modern Indian people,who speak the lingua franca (English as used in the Higher Courts,practicing law firmly rooted in English Common Law) are perfectly well aware that the great Indian democracy,in fact India as a nation,would never have existed without the British. I don't know one Indian who would support colonialism or any other form of foreign rule any more than I would, why the hell should they,but they know what they inherited and it wasn't just the Railways.
The largest democracy in the world is something the Indian people are justly proud of but the British can take just a tiny little bit of the credit too. This is not an apology for or justification of Britain's colonial exploits on the sub-comtinent. It's just a fact.
Cheers
Steve


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 13, 2012)

pbfoot said:


> Thats cuz you got bitch slapped then.
> Remember that Madison stated in 1812 that taking Canada was only a matter of marching


Not done fighting the Civil War down here, yet....Maybe later.
Only thing Madison got right was marrying Dolly, LOVE her cupcakes!


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 13, 2012)

oldcrowcv63 said:


> I can't remember what that was!
> ...
> 
> 
> ...



Some idiot had a queen question, probably too lazy too google it himself...HEY, wait a minute...

Cynicism so early in the morn?
Somebody needs more bran in their diet!


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## Freebird (Apr 13, 2012)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I find it interesting that there is a donation box at the Tower Of London to help pay for the Royal Jewels. Needless to say, I did not donate any time that I have visited it. I have no problem donating to museums or what not, but not to "any" royal family.


 


DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I sure as hell am not going to donate though, to help keep crown jewels in pristine condition. That should fall on the monarchy themselves in my opinion.



Der Adler the monarchy certainly pays for the upkeep of their jewels. They could do this in the most economical way by banning the common people from wandering in to their palaces mansions (as was the case up until the last century)

But by allowing the great masses of citizens in, it brings on added costs to repair facilities, clean up rubbish, etc etc etc.
The donations are to help keep these places accessible to the public, not to buy the Queen's crumpets.  (Or the Queen Mum's gin  )


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## Freebird (Apr 13, 2012)

oldcrowcv63 said:


> I can't remember what that was!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We'd like to sue for peace and we'll cede Quebec to you immediately. 

Henceforth all demands, complaints snivelling written in French and sent to Ottawa will be forwarded to Obama in the White House.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 13, 2012)

freebird said:


> The donations are to help keep these places accessible to the public, not to buy the Queen's crumpets.  (Or the Queen Mum's gin  )



Then they should call it that as well...


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 13, 2012)

freebird said:


> We'd like to sue for peace and we'll cede Quebec to you immediately.
> 
> Henceforth all demands, complaints snivelling written in French and sent to Ottawa will be forwarded to Obama in the White House.


You could try,... He does alot of nothing for us, what's a little more?

Anybody remember the Conch Republic?


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 14, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> You could try,... He does alot of nothing for us, what's a little more?
> 
> Anybody remember the Conch Republic?


Hey, I do. Seems that a bridge to some of the Florida keys got destroyed in a storm, (long time ago) and nobody wanted to fix it. State said it is interstate highway so its a Federal problem, Feds said, nope it's the states problem...
Meanwhile the good people of the cut off area got a little p!ssed off, but still came up with a cunning plan.
The sent a telegram to the White House declaring Seccession, and incidentally, War. They followed it up with a formal surrender in another telegram one minute later.
Then one more applying for relief aid to repair their "war torn" country!
The road is fixed and we still have the Conch Republic, it's just under American occupation!


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## Readie (Apr 14, 2012)

yulzari said:


> *Britain is a modern 21st century state forming part of Europe*. USA, Canada, Australia New Zealand et al are doubtless fine places and inhabited by fine people but Britain's neighbours are a short train or ferry ride away not a multi hour 950kmh flight. I can be English by nation, British by nationality and a European Union citizen and anywhere in the EU is my country. Maybe we could skip the British bit and return to an independent Commonwealth of England?



Er, no. 

The Commonwealth (sic Empire) and our loyal friends over the pond have been family to us. Old crow's post sums it up well so, I'll not labour the point.
Much as Neil protests, the Canadians welcome a royal visit and the Aussie's have had plenty of opportunities to become a republic, but have voted not too.

If there was a serious referendum here to leave the EU what do you think the result would be?
Trading partners is one thing but, being part of Federal Europe is quite another.

My own view is that I have far more in common with our former colonials than Europeans.

AND, they truly love us in their heart of hearts.

Fish, chips and mushy peas anyone? We could sit, eat and watch a flypast by a Spitfire....

John


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## vikingBerserker (Apr 14, 2012)

I'm with you, except for the mushy peas part.


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## Readie (Apr 14, 2012)

pbfoot said:


> As one of our Prime Ministers stated the "Sun never sets as even god didn't trust them"



That made me laugh Neil.

Perfidious Albion

After the 19th century, relationships between France and Britain improved, since the growing power of Germany was a threat for both the countries. During World War I the two countries were allies in the struggle against German forces, leaving their historical rivalry behind.
However, the term "perfidious Albion" would have been soon used again by fascist powers in order to criticise the global dominion of the British empire, that drains resources and occupies territories while leaving nothing to emerging powers such as Italy or Germany which had limited colonial empires. Fascist propaganda depicted the British as ruthless colonialists who exploited foreign lands and peoples to feed extravagant lifestyle habits like eating "five meals a day". This detail struck a chord with the Italians, very few of whom at the time could afford to eat more than twice a day.
Benito Mussolini called the British Empire "Perfida Albione" after the Second Italo-Abyssinian War, because despite having carved out large colonial territories for herself, Britain approved of trade sanctions in the wake of Italian aggression against Ethiopia. In fascist propaganda, the sanctions were depicted as an attempt to deny Italy its "rightful" colonial dominions, whilst at the same time Britain was trying to extend its own influence and authority. Mussolini called "un posto al Sole" (a place in the Sun) the goal of the fascist expansionism, that is, an extended colonial and politic power in order to bring back the glory of the Roman empire in the Mediterranean sea and the influence of Italy in the world.
During World War II the term Perfida Albione was again used many times by the Italian fascist regime for propaganda purposes, but when the war in Africa was lost and the Allies were going to land in Italy herself Mussolini switched to a general invective against Western powers, especially the United States. In Mussolini's propaganda, Western nations were winning only because they had superior industrial and economic resources, and the superior skills and valour of Italo-German soldiers were defeated only by overwhelming numbers of men, weapons and machinery brought by "vile", "untruthful" and "wretched" plutocratic powers – with the aid of a claimed "Zionist conspiracy" against fascist powers.
After the end of the Second World War, the term survived in little neo-fascist groups, and its usage in war came again only in the Falklands War between Argentina and Britain.

Or are they just plain old jealous?

John


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## Readie (Apr 14, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> I guess that the British empire was interesting. Island nation becomes the first great super-power, Sun never sets, Heart of oak, and all that.
> By the way, thanks to France for the help in throwing the b*ggers out!



We can also thank France, but...for different reasons ML 

John


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 14, 2012)

"..... After the 19th century, relationships between France and Britain improved ...."

100 years of bravado, ambition, patriotism, envy, (occasional) incompetence and ultimate failure _will_ tend to change things ... from Trafalgar, to Moscow, to Waterloo to Sudan ..... to the Commune. By 1914, France was a mess ... but, too in-love-with-itself to see it. 

MM


----------



## Readie (Apr 14, 2012)

freebird said:


> But by allowing the great masses of citizens in, it brings on added costs to repair facilities, clean up rubbish, etc etc etc.
> The donations are to help keep these places accessible to the public, not to buy the Queen's crumpets.  (Or the Queen Mum's gin  )



Cries of 'let them eat cake' wafted over the walls of Buckingham Palace during one sumptuous afternoon tea party after Fergie had one gallon of gin too many...
How convenient to forget where a lot of royal hanger's on really came from...

Plymouth Gin is rather good ( he said ever anxious to promote his city). Try a glass if you get the chance..

Plymouth

Gin has a history, along with white bread of keeping the English proles in their place...for a while.

Gin Craze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John


----------



## Readie (Apr 14, 2012)

michaelmaltby said:


> 100 years of bravado, ambition, patriotism, envy, (occasional) incompetence and ultimate failure _will_ tend to change things ... from Trafalgar, to Moscow, to Waterloo to Sudan ..... to the Commune. By 1914, France was a mess ... but, too in-love-with-itself to see it.
> MM



Mon dieu...what has changed since 1914? 

A great country worthy of the name does not have any friends.
Charles de Gaulle

John


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 14, 2012)

"... Mon dieu...what has changed since 1721** ...? 

Gin Craze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



MM


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 14, 2012)

vikingBerserker said:


> I'm with you, except for the mushy peas part.


'Ear, ear, guvnor!
After all, some of us are from germanic stock,...bring on the saurkraut!


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## Njaco (Apr 15, 2012)

"Bratwurst, Bratwurst, ubber alles......"


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 15, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> 'Ear, ear, guvnor!
> After all, some of us are from germanic stock,...bring on the saurkraut!



I am with you...

As much as I love UK food and drink, I will take German food and drink over it anyday.


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## buffnut453 (Apr 15, 2012)

There's no accounting for taste!


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## Readie (Apr 15, 2012)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I am with you...
> 
> As much as I love UK food and drink, I will take German food and drink over it anyday.



How about your American fare though?

I saw that 'Man versus Food' on TV and some of the USA Steak meat looked lovely...if in rather large portions.

John


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## Readie (Apr 15, 2012)

Njaco said:


> "Bratwurst, Bratwurst, ubber alles......"




 Nein. The food that won the war was Spam Bully Beef.
(and Gin)

John


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 15, 2012)

American food? 
If you mean bacon with a side of bacon, smothered in bacon, sprinkled with bacon bits with a delecate bacon sauce, garnished with bacon, and a deep fried twinkie for dessert,
That's just a snack.


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## Glider (Apr 15, 2012)

Readie said:


> Nein. The food that won the war was Spam Bully Beef.
> (and Gin)
> 
> John



How could you forget *TEA*


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 15, 2012)

Readie said:


> How about your American fare though?
> 
> I saw that 'Man versus Food' on TV and some of the USA Steak meat looked lovely...if in rather large portions.
> 
> John



American food is okay, but nothing beats...

Greek
Balkan (Former Yugoslavian countries)
German
Indian

We are way off topic now...


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## GrauGeist (Apr 15, 2012)

Ewww...I prefer Italian, Mexican or Chinese to German food...

Having a large portion of German ancestry doesn't make me enjoy it at all (except the beer)...lmao

I also have heavy Scottish ancestry, and there's noway in hell I'd touch any of that haggis...at all...

And yep, still off-topic...lmao!!


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## gumbyk (Apr 15, 2012)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> We are way off topic now...



I think off-topic is the safest direction for this thread...

Give me some Asian, Middle-Eastern, or Italian food and I'm happy. Couldn't really enjoy the food when I've been to the States. Too much fried stuff. and whats with the chocolate-dipped bacon?


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## A4K (Apr 16, 2012)

Now food we can do..much more agreeable subject 

Hungarian, Asian, or Mediterranean dishes, Swedish knackebrod, and Swiss, Dutch or Belgian chocolate.... mmmmm.....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 16, 2012)

I can find good food anywhere. I have been all over the world, and never found something I did not like.

My favs are:

Greek
Germany
Indian
Balkan

I also really love Turkish, Middle Eastern, Mexican...

And I do agree, I think off topic is probably the safest thing for this thread.


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## A4K (Apr 16, 2012)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I can find good food anywhere. I have been all over the world, and never found something I did not like.
> 
> And I do agree, I think off topic is probably the safest thing for this thread.



Agreed on both counts!


----------



## Readie (Apr 16, 2012)

Glider said:


> How could you forget *TEA*



How could I.....

Mother's cure for everything.

John


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## oldcrowcv63 (Apr 16, 2012)

I'm gonna stick my neck out a long way here and say to my all my (very, very few) _*french ancestors*_ and every single one of their many, many cousins and neighbors: Thank you for our freedom, but especially, thank you for inventing *french food*. Yummmm and the best tasting _progeny_ it produced: Cajun. I too have been all over the world and rarely had a bad meal but Cajun is beyond compare (IMHO). Just as an after-thought, I wouldn't visit the British isles for the food. I'd go to the BI for many great reasons, but none of them gastronomic. Oh yes, Greek/Turkish food get's an honorable mention. Is there any way to cook lamb badly?


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 16, 2012)

oldcrowcv63 said:


> I'm gonna stick my neck out a long way here and say to my all my (very, very few) _*french ancerstors*_ and every single one of their many, many cousins and neighbors: Thank you for our freedom, but especially, thank you for inventing *french food*. Yummmm and the best tasting _progeny_ it produced: Cajun. I too have been all over the world and rarely had a bad meal but Cajun is beyond compare (IMHO). Just as an after-thought, I wouldn't visit the British isles for the food. I'd go to the BI for many great reasons, but none of them gastronomic. Oh yes, Greek/Turkish food get's an honorable mention. Is there any way to cook lamb badly?


My first wife could've found a way!
How's this for off topic; Pippa, Pistol Packin' Princess?
And.....GO!


----------



## Readie (Apr 16, 2012)

'I wouldn't visit the British isles for the food. I'd go to the BI for many great reasons, but none of them gastronomic.....'

We are turned over in most restaurants Mal. High prices for nothing special...either the food or the service. You are better off cooking British food yourself. 

My wife I's favourite place to eat and generally relax in is the The Cours Saleya Market in Vieux Nice, France.

Nice is a gem, and where we will retire too.

John


----------



## Readie (Apr 16, 2012)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I can find good food anywhere. I have been all over the world, and never found something I did not like.



Yep, that's part of the adventure fun of travelling is trying different food.

John


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 16, 2012)

gumbyk said:


> I think off-topic is the safest direction for this thread...
> 
> Give me some Asian, Middle-Eastern, or Italian food and I'm happy. Couldn't really enjoy the food when I've been to the States. Too much fried stuff. and whats with the chocolate-dipped bacon?


I think it's in the Bill of Rights,...Let's see... Life, Liberty, the Pursuit of Happiness, Chocotate-dipped Bacon,...Yep, sounds right to me!


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 16, 2012)

gumbyk said:


> I think off-topic is the safest direction for this thread...
> 
> Give me some Asian, Middle-Eastern, or Italian food and I'm happy. Couldn't really enjoy the food when I've been to the States. Too much fried stuff. and whats with the chocolate-dipped bacon?


There's a baseball park in Ohio, I think, that serves a bacon cheeseburger on a bun made of a sugar frosted doughnut!
Never tried it.
I like salads.
The beer keeps me fat enough!


----------



## GrauGeist (Apr 16, 2012)

Well, ML...there's something even more hideous that's popped up in the midwest, mostly at county fairs...it's a literally a stick of butter shoved on a stick, then deep-fried...and there's even a fast-food joint that offers a bacon milk-shake now.

I mean seriously...


----------



## Readie (Apr 16, 2012)

GrauGeist said:


> Well, ML...there's something even more hideous that's popped up in the midwest, mostly at county fairs...it's a literally a stick of butter shoved on a stick, then deep-fried...and there's even a fast-food joint that offers a bacon milk-shake now.
> 
> I mean seriously...



Heart disease not an issue in America Dave?

John


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 16, 2012)

GrauGeist said:


> Well, ML...there's something even more hideous that's popped up in the midwest, mostly at county fairs...it's a literally a stick of butter shoved on a stick, then deep-fried...and there's even a fast-food joint that offers a bacon milk-shake now.
> 
> I mean seriously...


O.K., I like bacon as much as any red-blooded nephew of Unkie Sam, but,....YUCK! 
Got to agree with you there. Never mind the Butter-on-a-stick, that HAS to be the product of a Nebraska mind!

(Disclaimer, I love Nebraska and the fine folks that reside there. State name chosen for comedic value only, I mean,...come on, even people from Nebraska know a joke when they live in one?!)
(Further Disclaimer, The Management wishes to inform all that the views expressed, even for comedic value, does not reflect the views of the Management or it's Advertisers. Thank You for your continued patrionage.)


----------



## buffnut453 (Apr 16, 2012)

Readie said:


> Heart disease not an issue in America Dave?



Don't think we have much to crow about on that score, Scotland being the home of the deep-fried Mars bar!


----------



## BikerBabe (Apr 16, 2012)

...eurgh...


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 16, 2012)

As long as I get my haggis, a proper spicey one, then I'm a happy camper!


----------



## buffnut453 (Apr 16, 2012)

Love haggis, particularly the spicy ones. South of the border, I have a softspot for steak and stilton pies...mmmm, yum!


----------



## oldcrowcv63 (Apr 16, 2012)

Readie said:


> Yep, that's part of the adventure fun of travelling is trying different food.
> 
> John



Can't resist... Nice would be very nice.  Spending a year in France is on my bucket list. Nice looks like just the ticket.


----------



## gumbyk (Apr 16, 2012)

I heard a theory on the French meal of escargot.

During the Revolution, the French were so poor that they had to eat anything they could just to survive. In true French style, they managed to convince themselves that eating bugs fromthe garden was a delicacy.

Yes, I've tried them, no, I didn't like them


----------



## GrauGeist (Apr 16, 2012)

Readie said:


> Heart disease not an issue in America Dave?


Sure is...so is obesity, and they blame it on the fast-food joints, etc. instead of accepting the fact that they're eating themselves to death :/



Lucky13 said:


> As long as I get my haggis, a proper spicey one, then I'm a happy camper!





buffnut453 said:


> Love haggis, particularly the spicy ones. South of the border, I have a softspot for steak and stilton pies...mmmm, yum!


Haggis is just wrong, pure and simple...it's just downright nasty...


----------



## buffnut453 (Apr 16, 2012)

Ahhh, I see you found our secret weapon. What few people realise is that "Hurricane" was actually the second-choice name for Hawker's alliterative fighter. Originally, it had been named the Haggis in deference to the delicacy beloved of cultured palates but loathed by others lacking in taste (no offence GrauGeist!). Unfortunately, rather like the Enigma secret, it was felt that a direct reference to "the secret weapon" would reveal too much information to the enemy, hence the name-change to Hurricane.


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 16, 2012)

buffnut453 said:


> Ahhh, I see you found our secret weapon. What few people realise is that "Hurricane" was actually the second-choice name for Hawker's alliterative fighter. Originally, it had been named the Haggis in deference to the delicacy beloved of cultured palates but loathed by others lacking in taste (no offence GrauGeist!). Unfortunately, rather like the Enigma secret, it was felt that a direct reference to "the secret weapon" would reveal too much information to the enemy, hence the name-change to Hurricane.


You know, I'm just full of s#it enough that I'm not sure if you aren't telling the truth.
Don't dissilusion me, however, if it isn't the truth.
I've never gotten over the Santa thing!


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 16, 2012)

BikerBabe said:


> ...eurgh...


Drink down a little Coca-cola, and burp, kiddo, it will feel better!


----------



## gumbyk (Apr 16, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> Drink down a little Coca-cola, and burp, kiddo, it will feel better!



With Haggis, its usually a wee dram o' whiskey. Or is it a wee dram of haggis and a large drink of whiskey?


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 16, 2012)

oldcrowcv63 said:


> Can't resist... Nice would be very nice.  Spending a year in France is on my bucket list. Nice looks like just the ticket.


I've got a year to spare, gladly come with, I would.
(Jedi mind trick)


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## Lucky13 (Apr 17, 2012)

Hey, don't forget the Normans and 1066! The Normans weren't really French were they? The people that gave their name to Normandy, a region in northern France, were descended from them norse viking conquerors of that territory.....
See, we had had our '66, but you don't hear us go on about it! 

Just to derail this thread even further!


----------



## Readie (Apr 17, 2012)

Lucky13 said:


> Hey, don't forget the Normans and 1066! The Normans weren't really French were they? The people that gave their name to Normandy, a region in northern France, were descended from them norse viking conquerors of that territory.....
> See, we had had our '66, but you don't hear us go on about it!
> 
> Just to derail this thread even further!




The accursed Normans eh...well, some one once said that Britain had gained more from the invaders than by invading others.

Mind you, where would the colonies have been without our gentle guiding hand?

John


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## Readie (Apr 17, 2012)

buffnut453 said:


> Don't think we have much to crow about on that score, Scotland being the home of the deep-fried Mars bar!



Jeez...that's a posh tea in Glasgow isn't it?

Here, the glorious West Country we can offer equal heart stopping fast food...

John


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## Lucky13 (Apr 17, 2012)

Readie said:


> Mind you, where would the colonies have been without our gentle guiding hand?
> 
> John



Have to agree there old boy, sometimes a gentle (cough-cough), helping can do a lot to help, to stear the lost and unguided people on the right track...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 17, 2012)

gumbyk said:


> I heard a theory on the French meal of escargot.
> 
> During the Revolution, the French were so poor that they had to eat anything they could just to survive. In true French style, they managed to convince themselves that eating bugs fromthe garden was a delicacy.
> 
> Yes, I've tried them, no, I didn't like them



Escargot if made right, is great! I love it and can eat them by the dozen.

Edit: My wife the biologist wants to remind you that they are not bugs.


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 17, 2012)

He said: "... sometimes a gentle (cough-cough), helping can do a lot to help, to stear the lost and unguided people on the right track... "

She replied: "Take yer 'ands from 'off me arse, I'm not da girl for dat."


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## Lucky13 (Apr 17, 2012)

Get a blasted haircut then and lose the makeup! That dress doesn't help either!


----------



## Njaco (Apr 17, 2012)

and we're back to talkin' 'bout Queens.


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## Lucky13 (Apr 17, 2012)

His alterego must be Michaela or something....


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 17, 2012)

Queens!!! we are back on track!


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## Readie (Apr 17, 2012)

So, round a huge circle we go 

We sit here in our sceptred isle and benevolently regard the world... content in the knowledge that our fledgling colonies have done quite well for themselves and that the Europeans are on the right track.

No wonder Queen Elizabeth is proud.

It is quite wonderfull being British.

John


----------



## Readie (Apr 17, 2012)

michaelmaltby said:


> "... sometimes a gentle (cough-cough), helping can do a lot to help, to stear the lost and unguided people on the right track... "
> 
> Take yer 'ands from 'off me arse, I'm not da girl for dat.




Michael, have you been drinking old boy? I hear that the Canadian winters are rather long and dull...but, er cough...


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 17, 2012)

....and still, here am I and me fellow countrymen, them old norsemen, keep an eye on you unruly lot, as to not mess with our investment!


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## Readie (Apr 17, 2012)

Lucky13 said:


> ....and still, here am I and me fellow countrymen, them old norsemen, keep an eye on you unruly lot, as to not mess with our investment!



Jan, you lot made a complete balls by invading Scotland. The Danes were right to invade England, create 'Danelaw' and marry the local girls.


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## Lucky13 (Apr 17, 2012)

We just tagged along, with the Danes and the Norwegians to do some recon, which is why I'm here...let them face the bill!


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 17, 2012)

I wish they all could be califonia girls....


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## Freebird (Apr 17, 2012)

Njaco said:


> and we're back to talkin' 'bout Queens.



Live ones or dead ones?


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## yulzari (Apr 18, 2012)

The Somerset name for escargot as a dish is wall fish. I knew a restaurant in Somerset that still served them.

To quote from Flanders and Swan about those foreign johnnies outside the sceptred isle: 'It's not that they're bad; it's knowing that they're foreign that makes them so mad.'

Writing as a North African Viking ex British SNCO resident in France I would like to declare that the Normans were French whoever their great grandfathers might have been.

English football fans might like to ponder over the fact that the 'Three Lions' English football shield symbol is that of Aquitane. It was also the Prince of Aquitane (Edward of Woodstock, later known as the Black Prince) who burned down my village. My neighbours seem remarkably forgiving.

I recall unfortunately offending oldcrowcv63 earlier. Can I just mention my mother was once a US Army Master Sergeant if that helps?


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 18, 2012)

My first wife was from Queens N.Y.
98 pounds of pure mean!


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 18, 2012)

yulzari said:


> Writing as a North African Viking ex British SNCO resident in France I would like to declare that the Normans were French whoever their great grandfathers might have been.



I do apologise if I offended or in any way upset you Yulzari. I do hope that you do know what I meant though.


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## stona (Apr 18, 2012)

yulzari said:


> I would like to declare that the Normans were French whoever their great grandfathers might have been.



We'll have to disagree on that point as they were not French genetically or culturally. The Norman-French language still had many words and usages retained from the original Norse languages of the Normans' forbears although the invaders did adopt the Gallo-Romance speech of the indigenous people,just as they would adopt much Anglo-Saxon after the conquest of "England". 
They just happened to settle an area which lies within modern France but that doesn't make them French.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## Readie (Apr 18, 2012)

Complicated Steve.
French was the 'ruling classes' language for a long time and the Normans had little, or no intention of learning English.
I know that the French regard the 'northern French ( aka Normans) as a little odd, rather like Bretons I guess.
As 100% southern English I could say the same of those in the northern parts here 
In fact, having thought about it.. living in the 'north' of any country attracts the same riducule from those in the 'south'...even though those in the' north' of France are only 22 miles away from the 'south' of Britain...
Arrrrrrrrrrrragh.

John 8)


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 18, 2012)

Same in the old country, Sweden!  'Typical Northerners' and other expressions!


----------



## Airframes (Apr 18, 2012)

At least us northerners talk proper, like wot I did !


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 18, 2012)

Quite right old boy, anything else would not be cricket what!


----------



## Airframes (Apr 18, 2012)

Whyeyeman, it's a canny gaym is that cricket like!


----------



## yulzari (Apr 18, 2012)

Theym baint proper janners up country.

I would have put it in Lemesin patois like my neighbour, whose wife has to translate him into French, but my Parisian cousins already presume I've become a vrai paysan dans la France profonde and are amazed we have railways, electricity and internet (though we don't want to talk about drains.....)


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 18, 2012)

Airframes said:


> Whyeyeman, it's a canny gaym is that cricket like!


Wow, That sounds kinky.
Some things just don't translate from "English" to english very well!


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 18, 2012)

yulzari said:


> Theym baint proper janners up country.


And again.


----------



## Airframes (Apr 18, 2012)

That was the 'Geordie dialect M, from Tyneside, pretty close to 'Old English', although heavily influenced by those bl**dy Vikings - and no Spam !!


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 19, 2012)

Oi! Me ancestors were kind and very sympathetic, helping granma over the road kinda guys...
Very occasionally, there could be a minor brawl in a kneesup place...nothing major.


----------



## Readie (Apr 19, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> Some things just don't translate from "English" to english very well!



ML. There are two types of English in Britain, 1) 'Southern English', with clear diction, proper pronunciation and the with correct use of our complex grammar. This is the 'Queens English'.
2) 'Northern English', as a rule of thumb the further north you go the more incomprehensible the language culture. Mistakes are easily made leading to unnecessary unpleasantness. The same could be said of Wales, Northern Ireland and Norfolk.

If an American is brave enough to leave Southern England and venture into these fearsome areas I would take every precaution...

I do 

John


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 19, 2012)

"..... Oi! Me ancestors were kind and very sympathetic, helping granma over the road kinda guys...
Very occasionally, there could be a minor brawl in a kneesup place...nothing major."

More like the Biker gangs of the 7th and 8th Century .....


----------



## yulzari (Apr 19, 2012)

The Brigantes never did get the hang of talking like proper Romans.


----------



## Airframes (Apr 19, 2012)

Clear diction maybe, but proper pronunciation??!!! Since when has that receptacle we bathe in had a letter 'R' in its name? And how can someone "be in the vean", when such a vehicle does not exist? Dear oh dear oh dear.... proper pronunciation indeed !


----------



## Readie (Apr 19, 2012)

yulzari said:


> The Brigantes never did get the hang of talking like proper Romans.


----------



## Readie (Apr 19, 2012)

Airframes said:


> Clear diction maybe, but proper pronunciation??!!! Since when has that receptacle we bathe in had a letter 'R' in its name? And how can someone "be in the vean", when such a vehicle does not exist? Dear oh dear oh dear.... proper pronunciation indeed !




One bathes in ones bath don't you know.
One does not bathe in a baff 

Don't be fooled by the sub culture of 'Estuary English', East Enders has a lot to answer for.

John


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 19, 2012)

michaelmaltby said:


> "..... Oi! Me ancestors were kind and very sympathetic, helping granma over the road kinda guys...
> Very occasionally, there could be a minor brawl in a kneesup place...nothing major."
> 
> More like the Biker gangs of the 7th and 8th Century .....



Now, if they'd return, they'd make todays biker gangs look like pre-school, lolli-water drinking, fluffy-doll playing, pigtail, kneesocks wearing, too goody two shoes!

Btw, I think that I doing rather well with my school English! Aaayyyye!


----------



## Airframes (Apr 19, 2012)

John, I was thinking more along the lines of barth, instead of bath, and orf, instead of off. Reminds me of the old 'Murray Mints' TV ad - "Took orf, and flew arind, but the grind was going rind and rind" !!


----------



## stona (Apr 19, 2012)

English is English,in fact I'd go further and say British is British. I tour up and down this country working with people from all parts when not overseas. We should celebrate our regional accents and what's left of our dialects. Bath,Barth,Grass,Grarse (to rhyme with arse)or Beck,Brook,Spinney,Stream we all know what we mean. There is strength to be found in diversity and I for one am proud of it.
Cheers
Steve


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## Airframes (Apr 19, 2012)

Totally agree Mein Ami !


----------



## Readie (Apr 20, 2012)

stona said:


> English is English,in fact I'd go further and say British is British. I tour up and down this country working with people from all parts when not overseas. We should celebrate our regional accents and what's left of our dialects. Bath,Barth,Grass,Grarse (to rhyme with arse)or Beck,Brook,Spinney,Stream we all know what we mean. There is strength to be found in diversity and I for one am proud of it.
> Cheers
> Steve



Of course Steve.
I could not agree more.
A bit of playfull joshing is ok though 

There are regional accent casualties though. The one that springs to mind is the Kentish, or more precisely SE Kent accent. My father and his family has a distinctive turn of phrase but, it now seems that the 'Estuary English' I referred too earlier has taken over... shame.

Cheers
John


----------



## buffnut453 (Apr 20, 2012)

I think it's called evolution...not helped by radio, TV etc. There was a traditional saying at pub closing town where I grew up of, "Hast tha geet nay hames t'gutta?" which roughly translates to "Don't you have any homes to go to?" but, sadly, it's fallen out of use. And, yes, I'm a northerner!


----------



## stona (Apr 20, 2012)

I know Yorkshiremen who still use "thee" and "thou". Good for them.
Television more than radio has definitely contributed to the erosion of regional accents. For many years you wouldn't hear anything other than received pronunciation on the BBC. In the early days they all sounded posher than the Queen,who,incidentally has noticeably toned down her upper class accent.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## yulzari (Apr 20, 2012)

Remembering gogglebox adverts: 'thur wa'er in Majorka ain't wa' i' o'er' in Esturine. Or in English:'the water in Majorca is not quite how it should be' (apologies to Balearic readers.) S'good innit? Don't you just hate the glottal (pardon me, glo'al) stops.


----------



## Readie (Apr 20, 2012)

yulzari said:


> Remembering gogglebox adverts: 'thur wa'er in Majorka ain't wa' i' o'er' in Esturine. Or in English:'the water in Majorca is not quite how it should be' (apologies to Balearic readers.) S'good innit? Don't you just hate the glottal (pardon me, glo'al) stops.



No wonder the foreigners can't understand us....
Lol


----------



## Readie (Apr 20, 2012)

buffnut453 said:


> I think it's called evolution...not helped by radio, TV etc..QUOTE]
> 
> Maybe...or just low standards of speech grammar.


----------



## Airframes (Apr 20, 2012)

Agree there! Just look at the Internet edition of the BBC News - bad grammar, additional words out of context, and obviously not proof-read before publication.


----------



## pbfoot (Apr 20, 2012)

Maybe English has evolved , your starting to sound like France with its efforts to preserve the language in its pure form being how the majority of Emglish speakers have lived no where near the UK maybe we now have it correct and you've gone by the wayside 

Académie française - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Airframes (Apr 20, 2012)

Been evolving for over two thousand years Neil - but you can still travel just a few miles and not have a clue what someone is saying - and that's leaving out Russian, Polish, Urdu etc !!


----------



## pbfoot (Apr 20, 2012)

Airframes said:


> Been evolving for over two thousand years Neil - but you can still travel just a few miles and not have a clue what someone is saying - and that's leaving out Russian, Polish, Urdu etc !!


isn't any different here there is a definate difference in english just 2 miles away from here


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 20, 2012)

I am proud to be from the one place that pronounces english closest to Websters Dictionary, The place all the other states sent their newscasters to learn diction, yes, lowly Minnesota.
Land of 11,865 lakes, although it says "Land of 10,000 Lakes" on the licence plates, probably because "Land of 11,865 Lakes" would look stupid.
Mosquitoes big as a silver dollar, and 6 solid months of winter.
Left that Horrible place 40 years ago...


----------



## pbfoot (Apr 20, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> I am proud to be from the one place that pronounces english closest to Websters Dictionary, The place all the other states sent their newscasters to learn diction, yes, lowly Minnesota.
> Land of 11,865 lakes, although it says "Land of 10,000 Lakes" on the licence plates, probably because "Land of 11,865 Lakes" would look stupid.
> Mosquitoes big as a silver dollar, and 6 solid months of winter.
> Left that Horrible place 40 years ago...


want buy a few lakes we are sitting ar about 250000 in Ontario ,pitythe fool that counted them


----------



## N4521U (Apr 20, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> I am proud to be from the one place that pronounces english closest to Websters Dictionary, The place all the other states sent their newscasters to learn diction, yes, lowly Minnesota....



What??? Minni"soatah"?????

Aussie speak... "whilst in my boardies watching Happy Days on the tellie, me and me mates were drinkin coldies and eatin snags from the barbie, some were eatin Tim Tams, we all learnt American"!

Ya gotta laff!


----------



## Airframes (Apr 20, 2012)

Just had a thought .... Jan (Lucky) is visiting me next week. With his Glaswegian - accented Swedish, and my East Cheshire influenced, 'Geordie' background, semi-neutral English, it should be _real_ fun at the Yorkshire Air Museum!!


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 20, 2012)

N4521U said:


> What??? Minni"soatah"?????
> 
> Aussie speak... "whilst in my boardies watching Happy Days on the tellie, me and me mates were drinkin coldies and eatin snags from the barbie, some were eatin Tim Tams, we all learnt American"!
> 
> Ya gotta laff!


I have always admired the British variety of slang, but nobody beats the Aussies!


----------



## Vic Balshaw (Apr 21, 2012)

"FAIR DINKUM MATE!"


----------



## Readie (Apr 21, 2012)

pbfoot said:


> Maybe English has evolved , your starting to sound like France with its efforts to preserve the language in its pure form being how the majority of Emglish speakers have lived no where near the UK maybe we now have it correct and you've gone by the wayside
> 
> Académie française - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Nothing wrong with evolution of any language Neil. My point is that the sloppy use of basic grammar spelling is unnecessary.

Australian? Supposed to be close to 'old English' so I'm told.

'A bloke's half act willy with the yakker piling up in here without your parlava'
'Quit clowning jack, touch your kick or like for the mulga'

These are extracts from lets talk 'strian...a guide to poms when moving to the land of milk and honey.

Having lived in Melbourne fot 7 years I'm not convinced.....

John


----------



## pbfoot (Apr 21, 2012)

Has any one ever been to Newfoundland , well that my friends is one unusual accent its called Newfinese . 

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbVD5CImjGM_


----------



## parsifal (Apr 21, 2012)

> In fact, having thought about it.. living in the 'north' of any country attracts the same riducule from those in the 'south'...even though those in the' north' of France are only 22 miles away from the 'south' of Britain...
> Arrrrrrrrrrrragh


.


it must be related to the polarity of the poles, because in the great south land, its generally the reverse......the further south you go the weirder they are. Just ask a tasmanian


----------



## Readie (Apr 21, 2012)

parsifal said:


> .
> 
> 
> it must be related to the polarity of the poles, because in the great south land, its generally the reverse......the further south you go the weirder they are. Just ask a tasmanian




You could be right there Michael. We lived in Ulverstone, Tas for 2 years..it was ok provided you didn't deride the Apple growers...
Or, mention Port Arthur.

John


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 21, 2012)

Would be the same with East or West coast.......or ANY East/West people?


----------



## GrauGeist (Apr 21, 2012)

Even in the states, there is a distinct difference between the east coast and west coast accents...same with the difference between the south and it's changes the further north you go.


----------



## parsifal (Apr 22, 2012)

Readie said:


> You could be right there Michael. We lived in Ulverstone, Tas for 2 years..it was ok provided you didn't deride the Apple growers...
> Or, mention Port Arthur.
> 
> John



Or look at their sheep


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 22, 2012)

Just watched a terrible flick called "Black Sheep". Made in N.Z. about two brothers, one that had a fear of sheep, the other was a mad scientist making geneticaly altered killer sheep. Really lousey story, make-up, special fx, acting,...


----------



## Readie (Apr 22, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> Just watched a terrible flick called "Black Sheep". Made in N.Z. about two brothers, one that had a fear of sheep, the other was a mad scientist making geneticaly altered killer sheep. Really lousey story, make-up, special fx, acting,...



I thought you were talking about Dallas for a minute ML

John


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 22, 2012)

Readie said:


> I thought you were talking about Dallas for a minute ML
> 
> John


The only thing geneticaly altered on that show was Larry Hagmans liver!


----------



## Readie (Apr 22, 2012)

I have another theory....8)
The northern hemisphere, revolving around London naturally, enables people to stand up right and be rational as the human body is working as designed.
The southern hemisphere, where our colonials were rather wild, made them stand upside down.
So, if the phrase 'a rush of blood to the head' is true then the southern hemisphere lot must live in that state permanently. Does this explain anything?
Possibly...
But, the 'sane rational club' does include the Canadians.
Ummm

John


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 22, 2012)

....would that be just the Canadians or any other of the old colonies?


----------



## parsifal (Apr 23, 2012)

Not sure what any of this has to dp with anything, but its still excellent


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 23, 2012)

Here's a question...

Has the time gone for great Kings, Queens OR Presidents, what is it left to do, for them to earn the same admiration as Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt, King Lionheart, Queen Elisabeth, Gustav II Adolf and others? Views?


----------



## yulzari (Apr 23, 2012)

Don't start me on Richard Coeur de bloody Lion (pauses to spit to one side.)


----------



## gumbyk (Apr 23, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> Just watched a terrible flick called "Black Sheep". Made in N.Z. about two brothers, one that had a fear of sheep, the other was a mad scientist making geneticaly altered killer sheep. Really lousey story, make-up, special fx, acting,...



Thats a great movie!!! Kind of reminds me of Mr. Jackson's early movies.


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 23, 2012)

gumbyk said:


> Thats a great movie!!! Kind of reminds me of Mr. Jackson's early movies.


Reggie, or Michael?


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 23, 2012)

yulzari said:


> Don't start me on Richard Coeur de bloody Lion (pauses to spit to one side.)


Wasn't he a Queen too?


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 23, 2012)

Lucky13 said:


> Here's a question...
> 
> Has the time gone for great Kings, Queens OR Presidents, what is it left to do, for them to earn the same admiration as Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt, King Lionheart, Queen Elisabeth, Gustav II Adolf and others? Views?


Washington is the only one on your list that was widely well regarded during his lifetime. The rest were not duly recognised as "Great" until after their deaths.
As to the Question; do something great, I guess...


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 23, 2012)

"... Washington is the only one on your list that was widely well regarded during his lifetime."

FDR was elected for an unprecedented third term --- that's recognition.

MM


----------



## gumbyk (Apr 23, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> Reggie, or Michael?



Pete


----------



## Readie (Apr 24, 2012)

Lucky13 said:


> Here's a question...
> 
> Has the time gone for great Kings, Queens OR Presidents, what is it left to do, for them to earn the same admiration as Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt, King Lionheart, Queen Elisabeth, Gustav II Adolf and others? Views?



Virtually nothing Jan.
We'd better start learning Chinese as they are the power to be it would appear. Even the ever smiling Obama can't get away from this.
John


----------



## yulzari (Apr 24, 2012)

Re Richard Couer do Lion.

No problem with his woofterdom, more being a murderous psychopath who emptied England's treasury so he could bully and slaughter folk from France to Palestine. Leaving his little brother to balance the books and get the bad reputation. At least John lived in England and would have done a halfway decent job as a medieval king if he didn't continuously have to squeeze cash out of the english cow for big brother to spend and get the glory. Mind you, I know Richard never spoke English and I doubt if John did either.


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 24, 2012)

michaelmaltby said:


> "... Washington is the only one on your list that was widely well regarded during his lifetime."
> 
> FDR was elected for an unprecedented third term --- that's recognition.
> 
> MM


Oops, I was thinking of Teddy, not Franklin. 
You are right.


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 24, 2012)

gumbyk said:


> Pete


Oh, right, the hobbit guy...
Makes Wingnut Wings models now.


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 24, 2012)

Readie said:


> Virtually nothing Jan.
> We'd better start learning Chinese as they are the power to be it would appear. Even the ever smiling Obama can't get away from this.
> John


I have been sugesting Chinese language learning tapes as X-mas presents for several years now...


----------



## stona (Apr 24, 2012)

Readie said:


> Virtually nothing Jan.
> We'd better start learning Chinese as they are the power to be it would appear.
> John



Only if they keep lending us the money to buy the goods from them that we otherwise couldn't afford!
That's a circle that won't close and we are already living with the consequences.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## Readie (Apr 24, 2012)

stona said:


> Only if they keep lending us the money to buy the goods from them that we otherwise couldn't afford!
> That's a circle that won't close and we are already living with the consequences.
> Cheers
> Steve



All too true Steve.
Oh well....
Back to British Leyland. BMC etc...what was your favour car?
I have had a couple of Moggy Thous, a 1300mk3, several Mini's, 2 Marina's and a Maxi. The main issues were rust, rust and more rust...but, when they broke the parts were cheap and I could repair them...
All worth a fortune on ebay these days..you may say how quickly we forget !!
Cheers
John


----------



## stona (Apr 24, 2012)

A few BL cars have passed through my hands. Minis are,well,Minis. I had an Allegro for a couple of months as a young chemist..... shocking. My now late sister in law bought a jaguar XJS for some reason a few years ago. That was a shed on wheels.
The rustiest car I ever owned was a Lancia Beta,now we are talking integrity/life threatening corrosion!
All my recent cars have been German! Who won the bloody war anyway?
Cheers
Steve


----------



## Readie (Apr 24, 2012)

stona said:


> A few BL cars have passed through my hands. Minis are,well,Minis. I had an Allegro for a couple of months as a young chemist..... shocking. My now late sister in law bought a jaguar XJS for some reason a few years ago. That was a shed on wheels.
> The rustiest car I ever owned was a Lancia Beta,now we are talking integrity/life threatening corrosion!
> All my recent cars have been German! Who won the bloody war anyway?
> Cheers
> Steve



Lancia was Italian for rust ! Great engine shame about everything else.
The wife is a Golf person and has had all the marks over the years, I'm a car tart and have had Japanese,British,Italian, a modern MINI, French and currently a diesel Fiesta. Mind you the engine is French...hump.
Global cars means just that I guess...
Our local VAG dealer has a POW room..'Persons Outside Wolfsburg' ...you can sit and watch endless VW adverts, drink 'coffee' and watch the garage techies work until you agree to buy the peoples wagen at 0% finance with a free trip to Berlin chucked in.
Cheers
John


----------



## Freebird (Apr 24, 2012)

Readie said:


> I have another theory....8)
> The northern hemisphere, revolving around London naturally, enables people to stand up right and be rational as the human body is working as designed.
> The southern hemisphere, where our colonials were rather wild, made them stand upside down.
> So, if the phrase 'a rush of blood to the head' is true then the southern hemisphere lot must live in that state permanently. Does this explain anything?
> ...



Ah no, the criminals were all sent down under, we got the looneys...


----------



## yulzari (Apr 25, 2012)

Weren't more criminals transported to the American colonies (excluding Canada) than Australia?

I thought that the principal reason to colonise Australia was to find an alternative dumping ground.

In a mild defence of transportation: it was promoted by the judiciary as they were unhappy at being expected to condemn less serious criminals. A similar reason the judiciary promoting the idea of an age of criminal responsibility so that they didn't have to condemn or imprison children. It was the judges, not the MPs, who thought the existing law unjust and unreasonable.


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 25, 2012)

No, we were founded by prudes who dreamed of freedom for all. (As long as you were white and rich, of course.)


----------



## buffnut453 (Apr 25, 2012)

And male.


----------



## yulzari (Apr 25, 2012)

and Protestant.


----------



## stona (Apr 25, 2012)

yulzari said:


> and Protestant.



Hardly surprising for 17th century English puritans. 

Cheers
Steve


----------



## Readie (Apr 25, 2012)

Pilgrims (Plymouth Colony) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Americans Canadians like to pay homage to the Mayflower steps in Plymouth where the Pilgrims Fathers set sail to the New World.
I cannot image the courage these people has setting sail into the literal unknown.
Perhaps this quality was our greatest to our colonies
John


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 25, 2012)

stona said:


> Hardly surprising for 17th century English puritans.
> 
> Cheers
> Steve


I just wish that they had been a little less "Puritan". Did you know that , in most states, any sexual position other than "missionary" is Illegal?


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 25, 2012)

Readie said:


> Pilgrims (Plymouth Colony) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Americans Canadians like to pay homage to the Mayflower steps in Plymouth where the Pilgrims Fathers set sail to the New World.
> I cannot image the courage these people has setting sail into the literal unknown.
> ...


I've been there.
They built a wall around it.


----------



## Readie (Apr 25, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> I've been there.
> They built a wall around it.



Only so the large over enthusiastic Americans don't fall into the water ML
We have to look after you boys.
John


----------



## Messy1 (Apr 25, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> No, we were founded by prudes who dreamed of freedom for all. (As long as you were white and rich, of course.)


Or had a strong back!


----------



## yulzari (Apr 25, 2012)

It's a shame that the Mayflower steps never existed when the 'Pilgrim Fathers' (as the religious bigots are now known) set sail.


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 25, 2012)

Used to be a truckstop up in Conneticut named the Mayflower. Had a motel, resturaunt, bar close by, anyways Me and this other mover friend found ourselves without a challenge after killing off a case of beer and a bottle of who-hit-john, had to have a contest to see who could put the most stuff in a small space.
We got the entire contents of two motel rooms into one bathroom.
Couldn't get any of it back out the next morning.
Next time I went through there, a sign had been put up,
read, "No Dogs Or Movers Allowed".
Can't help but wonder if ....


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 25, 2012)

".... It's a shame that the Mayflower steps never existed when the 'Pilgrim Fathers' (as the religious bigots are know known) set sail ..."

OK. Don't know where_ that_ comes from, but would you have preferred Huguenots ...?


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 26, 2012)

Tea anyone?


----------



## buffnut453 (Apr 26, 2012)

Now that's just not cricket!


----------



## yulzari (Apr 26, 2012)

Ah tea. When the american tea smugglers were **** off that the governor undercut their criminal activities by removing the tax on tea they boarded a legitimate importing vessel and threw their hard earned tea into the harbour to keep the local prices up. They should have been happy that they paid negligible taxes and didn't have to pay for their own defence. Still they are much better off now......?


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 26, 2012)

".... Still they are much better off now......?"

Compared to whom ....?


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 26, 2012)

Interesting take on the events in Boston, I suppose that the line between criminal and patriot can get blurred. 
It is also easy to sit here today 200+ years later and think all the conspiricy revisionist things one wants.
Doesn't change my views on those brave, red-blooded, tax-hating, dress-up loving guys that made it possible for me to enjoy my second cup of coffee this fine morning!


----------



## stona (Apr 26, 2012)

Not tax hating. It was a refusal to pay an imposed tax to which the colonists had not consented. This is not the same thing. In a democracy an elected government may impose taxes that we may not like but to which,in electing that government,we have tacitly consented. If you don't like those taxes and can get enough others to agree with you,then you can vote that government out and elect one more to your taste! This was not an option for the colonists who were having taxes imposed on them from London.
This was one of the causes of the so called English civil war (actually far more complicated than that). Infact many of the English parliament's 17th century grievances against Charles I bear a striking resemblance to those of the American colonies against the crown a hundred and twenty odd years later.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## Readie (Apr 26, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> Interesting take on the events in Boston, I suppose that the line between criminal and patriot can get blurred.
> It is also easy to sit here today 200+ years later and think all the conspiricy revisionist things one wants.
> Doesn't change my views on those brave, red-blooded, tax-hating, dress-up loving guys that made it possible for me to enjoy my second cup of coffee this fine morning!



Neither criminal or patriots really ML..the whole 'Tea' issue was a cunning way of letting you new Americans 'win' so you lot thought that you had bettered blighty whereas in actual fact we let you go...
We tried a similar trick with the Canadians but, they insisted on staying Royal and with us.
John


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 26, 2012)

....and as we all know, the 'daddy' of the USN, was a Scot, riiiiiight?


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 26, 2012)

Lucky13 said:


> ....and as we all know, the 'daddy' of the USN, was a Scot, riiiiiight?


John Paul Jones?
I didn't know the bass player for Led Zeppelin was a Scot!


----------



## yulzari (Apr 26, 2012)

I think Parliament's view was no representation without taxation. They were fed up with paying for troops to defend America when America wasn't paying anything and causing most of the need for defence. In fact taxation was a local matter and people had representation to their own governor whose administration made the laws. A substantial number of MPs in Britain felt that Britain should not be subsidising the colonists any longer and they should be cast adrift to look after themselves (the Belizean solution). The restraint on them was the expectation that the French would move in instead. Vive l'Amerique Francais! Exit Elvis Presley, enter Johnnie Halliday!

My favourite reference to the Second American Civil War is that it proved English amateurs could beat German professionals in open combat.

Had Loyalist Americans not lost that civil war then the expansion of the 13 colonies would have been stopped and Middle America would become French and the West Spanish. The Canadians had best learn Quebequois French for la belle colonie de France from Hudson's Bay to the Gulf of Mexico. Alaskans would need to practice their Russian. For Mexicans, you are in your own country all the way from Yucatan to Seattle. If you are a native American/First People then you are still buggered anyway; sorry.


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 26, 2012)

Readie said:


> Neither criminal or patriots really ML..the whole 'Tea' issue was a cunning way of letting you new Americans 'win' so you lot thought that you had bettered blighty whereas in actual fact we let you go...
> We tried a similar trick with the Canadians but, they insisted on staying Royal and with us.
> John


I've been to Canada.
Nice folks.


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 26, 2012)

I've been to North Carolina.
Nice folks. 

MM

Canada: Home of Ethical Oil


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 26, 2012)

America loses the War of Independence - alternate history - Google: America loses War of Independence - Alternate History Discussion Board

"... Had Loyalist Americans not lost that civil war then the expansion of the 13 colonies would have been stopped and Middle America would become French and the West Spanish. The Canadians had best learn Quebequois French for la belle colonie de France from Hudson's Bay to the Gulf of Mexico. Alaskans would need to practice their Russian. For Mexicans, you are in your own country all the way from Yucatan to Seattle. If you are a native American/First People then you are still buggered anyway; sorry ..."

Interesting musings, yulzari from france. They your own?

MM
Proud Loyalist Canadian


----------



## Messy1 (Apr 27, 2012)

Interesting MM!


----------



## yulzari (Apr 27, 2012)

There are many ways to read alternative histories. 

Had Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld been a boy then he would have ruled Hannover as well as Britain etc. and Prussian expansion would have been thwarted in the west, thus no Franco-Prussian war, WW1 or WW2. Britain would still remain ruled by Germans though....

My favourite remains Harald Sigurdsson winning the Battle of Stamford Bridge, defeating Wilhelm the Bastard in Kent with a combined English and Norwegian/Danish army and England remaining within the Scandinavian sphere.

I have yet to meet an unpleasant Canadian.


----------



## stona (Apr 27, 2012)

yulzari said:


> I think Parliament's view was no representation without taxation.



The other way around. No taxation without representation. The American colonists were obviously not represented.

With regards to the English problem,Kings were used to calling parliaments whenever it suited them,usually with a view to raising money (by taxation). By the early/mid 1600s we'd had enough of that and had to show the King who was really in charge by the simple expedient of beheading him. A new phrase entered the language after the restoration,"Constitutional Monarchy". Strange for a state with no written constitution!

Even today the monarch does not enter the House of Commons. At the State Opening she sends an official (Black Rod) to summon MPs to the House of Lords. There is a nice bit of theatre when the door to The Commons is slammed in her official's face. A gesture which gives hope to the republican minority 

An Act of Parliament does not have to have Royal Assent to become law anymore either though this formality is usually observed. Parliament makes the law,Charles I must be spinning in his grave.

Cheers
Steve


----------



## Messy1 (Apr 27, 2012)

yulzari said:


> There are many ways to read alternative histories.
> 
> Had Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld been a boy then he would have ruled Hannover as well as Britain etc. and Prussian expansion would have been thwarted in the west, thus no Franco-Prussian war, WW1 or WW2. Britain would still remain ruled by Germans though....
> 
> ...



How about this scenario along the line of your what if as to Princess Victoria being born a boy. What if Hitler had been born a girl? Would WW2 still occured? These scenarios can go on and on, with no real end in sight, and no realistic scenario as to how it would have changed history.


----------



## stona (Apr 27, 2012)

yulzari said:


> My favourite remains Harald Sigurdsson winning the Battle of Stamford Bridge, defeating Wilhelm the Bastard in Kent with a combined English and Norwegian/Danish army and England remaining within the Scandinavian sphere.



Wouldn't he have destroyed the "English" army to win at Stamford Bridge? Difficult to see the remnants joining him. We English usually remember him by his epiphet "Hardrada" (from Icelandic sources) rather than his family name. 
Why in Kent? Any amphibious landing is best defeated at the point of disembarcation which in William's case was in Sussex.
Are you allowing Harald more time to make his way South through potentially hostile territory?

Cheers
Steve


----------



## Readie (Apr 27, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> I've been to Canada.
> Nice folks.



They are, friendly, hospital and loyal friends.
John


----------



## stona (Apr 27, 2012)

Readie said:


> They are, friendly, hospital and loyal friends.
> John



And you can get proper bacon,back bacon,not the fatty,streaky stuff you tend to get in the US.
I even got a recognisable pork pie in Canada once,I wish I could remember where 
Cheers
Steve


----------



## Readie (Apr 27, 2012)

stona said:


> And you can get proper bacon,back bacon,not the fatty,streaky stuff you tend to get in the US.
> I even got a recognisable pork pie in Canada once,I wish I could remember where
> Cheers
> Steve



Not in Quebec I'd hazard a guess Steve...


----------



## Readie (Apr 27, 2012)

We are preparing for the Diamond Jubilee with the newly build Royal Barge ready for testing in the Thames and the invitations for the select few to Buckingham Palace are in the post.
I looking forward more to this than the Olympics to be honest.
It'll be great to celebrate with our global friends
John


----------



## pbfoot (Apr 27, 2012)

Readie said:


> We are preparing for the Diamond Jubilee with the newly build Royal Barge ready for testing in the Thames and the invitations for the select few to Buckingham Palace are in the post.
> I looking forward more to this than the Olympics to be honest.
> It'll be great to celebrate with our global friends
> John


Everyone one around here is talking about the Diamond Jubilee Actually it is a non event


----------



## Airframes (Apr 27, 2012)

Yep, a bit like watching ice hockey. Glad I don't have a TV.


----------



## pbfoot (Apr 27, 2012)

Airframes said:


> Yep, a bit like watching ice hockey. Glad I don't have a TV.


You don't need Television when your sports are cricket and footie , the games happen at the same pace as a 6 year old reading


----------



## A4K (Apr 27, 2012)

You never played footie if you believe that.


----------



## pbfoot (Apr 27, 2012)

A4K said:


> You never played footie if you believe that.


ypu believe what you want to believe it in comparison it is a slow boring game with lots of gay diving


----------



## meatloaf109 (Apr 27, 2012)

O.k. got another one for you all, 
Mary-ann or Ginger?


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 27, 2012)

Airframes said:


> Yep, a bit like watching ice hockey. Glad I don't have a TV.


Which I didn't notice 'til very late!


----------



## Airframes (Apr 28, 2012)

I agree, football is a waste of good grass, but cricket, even though I don't watch any field sport boring, waste of rations, over-hyped rubbish games, is bl**dy dangerous !


----------



## Lucky13 (Apr 28, 2012)

Because we're......


----------



## Readie (Apr 28, 2012)

pbfoot said:


> Everyone one around here is talking about the Diamond Jubilee Actually it is a non event



haha...you'll be glued to the TV Neil. I'll send you a Union Jack to wave.
John


----------



## Readie (Apr 28, 2012)

Airframes said:


> I agree, football is a waste of good grass, but cricket, even though I don't watch any field sport boring, waste of rations, over-hyped rubbish games, is bl**dy dangerous !




NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO......football is our national game Terry.
John


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## yulzari (Apr 28, 2012)

Would that be 22 grown men trying to kick a pigs bladder between two sticks?

Hockey. Now there's a man's game. Like rugby but the players each get a 3 foot stick and with a ball so hard it requires the goalkeeper to wear armour.

Re Harald: a quick victory would have had him granted the crown and, moving south, he would have acquired the English Fyrd by right. Considering the fight his army put up lightly armed and split in two they would have won if combined and fully armed. Wilhelm (see Canterbury Embroidery for spelling) was busy wrecking Harold Godwinson's holdings in Kent at the time to try to bring him to battle. His Breton and Flemish allies were on the point of leaving when Harold actually turned up so Harald's inevitable delayed arrival would have seen Wilhelm short handed. The main point is that England would have remained quasi Scandinavian not become quasi French. Then the English could be spared surnames and the verb at the end of a sentence would remain.

On the Canadian theme; Canada must be civilized as not only can you buy proper Cornish Pasties but they do good haggis (Haggises, Haggi?) and smuggle them to the benighted Americans for Burns Nights!


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## Readie (Apr 28, 2012)

yulzari said:


> Would that be 22 grown men trying to kick a pigs bladder between two sticks?



You'll be telling me that you don't support the SuperGreens next maaaaaaaaaate....

John


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## Readie (Apr 28, 2012)

pbfoot said:


> ypu believe what you want to believe it in comparison it is a slow boring game with lots of gay diving



Ah, Canadian wit...


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## Lucky13 (Apr 28, 2012)

Here I thought that cricket was UK's national game.....with a point system only a genius can understand, how wrong one can be,.
Somehow, these green keepers have also found a way to get off the green (the red card), when they feel they need to work on their manicure and facial construction.
'One must look ones best when one dive they think'.....'one can land a part in a lovey dovey chick flick!'


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## GrauGeist (Apr 28, 2012)

And just before the Superbowl a few months back, I read an artical where some news guys down New Zealand way were saying that American Football players were pansies and wouldn't last 5 minutes against thier "footballers"...

Honestly, the typical lineman weighs in at over 250 pounds (113 kilos+) or more and are very capable of doing damage to an opponent. It would be interesting to see our American football players square off against them.


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## pbfoot (Apr 28, 2012)

GrauGeist said:


> And just before the Superbowl a few months back, I read an artical where some news guys down New Zealand way were saying that American Football players were pansies and wouldn't last 5 minutes against thier "footballers"...
> 
> Honestly, the typical lineman weighs in at over 250 pounds (113 kilos+) or more and are very capable of doing damage to an opponent. It would be interesting to see our American football players square off against them.


I agree with the KIWIs plus the game of Rugby doesn't stop every 4 secs so they can figure out whats next


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## GrauGeist (Apr 28, 2012)

lmao...they'd be crushed like insects by an American defensive line...it would a massacre


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## Lucky13 (Apr 28, 2012)

Of course, the NFL players wouldn't be allowed their protection!


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## Glider (Apr 28, 2012)

Actually I don't think they would. I did play Rugby in the Navy against the FAA Field Gun team and there is no doubt that for the first 15 -20 mins they had a clear advantage, but they tired and after that we won the game. I suspect a similar thing would happen if Rugby players were up against NFL players.


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## pbfoot (Apr 28, 2012)

GrauGeist said:


> lmao...they'd be crushed like insects by an American defensive line...it would a massacre


The 1st play what are they gonna do when the 5 secs are up and the play is continuing and they have no instructions


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 28, 2012)

Minnesota Vikings.
Coolest helmet in the N.F.L.
Horns. How can you beat that!?!


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## Readie (Apr 28, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> Minnesota Vikings.
> Coolest helmet in the N.F.L.
> Horns. How can you beat that!?!



Only in the Berlin drinking cellars ML...tres odd.
John


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## Lucky13 (Apr 28, 2012)

No Helmet! No protection! Mind you, it'll be bloody tough, NFL players against rugby players, then NFL with their protection and the rugby with the same.
As I see it, the rugby players can take a good beating, beacuse their used to it, can the NFL survive without their gear?

Also, Minnesota Vikings are my fav NFL team! Goooo Viiiiikiings! 
Btw, they have never won the Super Bowl, or am I wrong?


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## Readie (Apr 28, 2012)

Lucky13 said:


> No Helmet! No protection! Mind you, it'll be bloody tough, NFL players against rugby players, then NFL with their protection and the rugby with the same.
> As I see it, the rugby players can take a good beating, beacuse their used to it, can the NFL survive without their gear?



I'd vote for the international standard rugby union players. They are built like brick **** houses and its easy to forget just how huge they are...
I'm sure the NFL is also a tough league as well.
The real hard men seem to be the ice hockey players...

John


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## Lucky13 (Apr 28, 2012)

Aye, that huge fight every now and then, where an occasional game of hockey breakes out for, oh I don't know, 60 odd minutes?


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 28, 2012)

"... Britain would still remain ruled by Germans though.."

The House of Windsor _is_ German .... Windsor was adapted during WW1, IIRC 

"... I have yet to meet an unpleasant Canadian." 

You're lucky, too 

"... There are many ways to read alternative histories. "

I guess. I'm not into it much myself, I do like irony - _historical irony _- and there's lot's and lot's of irony in the REAL STUFF. The US CIVIL War is loaded with ironies - classmates who served together as Cadets and in some cases battle (Mexico War) wind up facing each other and _knowingly_ ...

Chairs,

MM


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 28, 2012)

michaelmaltby said:


> "... Britain would still remain ruled by Germans though.."
> 
> The House of Windsor _is_ German .... Windsor was adapted during WW1, IIRC
> 
> ...


My favorite bit of weirdness, (Civil war wise), was that the farmer that owned the land that the first battle was fought on, moved his family to Appomattox courthouse to get away from the war. Lee surrendered to Grant in his home.
So the war started in his front yard and ended in his livingroom.

I met an unpleasant Canadian once. She was a "back to nature" type.
Pretty enough, but she had decided that deoderants and "personal" grooming were not necessary.
She was wrong.


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## yulzari (Apr 29, 2012)

I remember watching (from a safe height) the riots in Montreal one year when they won the Stanley Cup. God knows what they would have done if they lost.


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## Readie (Apr 29, 2012)

A lot of Canadians I come across here married Brits or Brits married Canadians and live there.
The only oddball Canadians I have ever met are the French Canadians...and thoroughly unpleasant to boot.But, that is a long story.
Still, ever country has its less than delightfull inhabitants....
John


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## GrauGeist (Apr 29, 2012)

I've been to Canada as well as encountered many down here in my neck of the woods.

I can't think of a time when they were anything but truly nice folks, which in this day and age, is a rare thing...


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## pbfoot (Apr 29, 2012)

Readie said:


> A lot of Canadians I come across here married Brits or Brits married Canadians and live there.
> The only oddball Canadians I have ever met are the French Canadians...and thoroughly unpleasant to boot.But, that is a long story.
> Still, ever country has its less than delightfull inhabitants....
> John


the ones that married Brits have one thing in common the Brit component of the marriage has not figured out what they are , they spend every blessed cent trying to visit the old place yet have not even checked out the new place


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## Readie (Apr 29, 2012)

GrauGeist said:


> I've been to Canada as well as encountered many down here in my neck of the woods.
> 
> I can't think of a time when they were anything but truly nice folks, which in this day and age, is a rare thing...



I agree Dave and would say the same about Americans I have met here.
A tad loud but, nice genuine people
John


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## Readie (Apr 29, 2012)

pbfoot said:


> the ones that married Brits have one thing in common the Brit component of the marriage has not figured out what they are , they spend every blessed cent trying to visit the old place yet have not even checked out the new place



Good point. Some of the older mixed marriages are WW2 shortly after based. Maybe the Brit is a bit homesick even after all those years?


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## GrauGeist (Apr 29, 2012)

Readie said:


> I agree Dave and would say the same about Americans I have met here.
> A tad loud but, nice genuine people
> John


Funny you'd mention that, John. My girlfriend, who's from Europe, mentioned that to me as well. Her observation is that folks from the eastern side of the U.S. are louder than the Westerners...not sure why that is


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## Readie (Apr 29, 2012)

GrauGeist said:


> Funny you'd mention that, John. My girlfriend, who's from Europe, mentioned that to me as well. Her observation is that folks from the eastern side of the U.S. are louder than the Westerners...not sure why that is



Me neither.. The people from Texas insist on wearing cowboy hats and telling everyone that they are from Texas...very interesting I'm sure you'll agree. 
Other than that I cannot easily tell an eastern American accent from a western accent.
I get mixed up with Aussie and Kiwi's too...

John


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## GrauGeist (Apr 29, 2012)

Rosi (my girlfriend) says that west coast Americans are very easy to understand and the east coast folks are the hardest to understand (she thinks southern American accents are funny)...but almost every place on earth has it's own unique accents. Like the difference between an Oxford and Cockney and other regional accents in the UK, for example.


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## Readie (Apr 29, 2012)

GrauGeist said:


> Rosi (my girlfriend) says that west coast Americans are very easy to understand and the east coast folks are the hardest to understand (she thinks southern American accents are funny)...but almost every place on earth has it's own unique accents. Like the difference between an Oxford and Cockney and other regional accents in the UK, for example.



I like different accents, it makes travelling to other parts more interesting that's for sure.
In the space of 200 miles the accents in the UK are completely different...and depending where you start from end up being incomprehensible 
Where is Rosi from Dave?
John


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## buffnut453 (Apr 29, 2012)

Readie said:


> I get mixed up with Aussie and Kiwi's too...



That's easy-peasy...just ask them to say "Australian" and if what they say sounds like "Strine" then they're Aussies.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 29, 2012)

Rosi is from Borgas, Bulgaria, John


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## Lucky13 (Apr 29, 2012)

While down south of the border here, I was taken for Irish, some other times they asked: you're norse aren't you? Go figure


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 29, 2012)

When I first moved here to the mountains of western North Carolina I bought a gas station/convenience store. The previous owner (Monty), had some people on a "charge" system where-by they settled the bill at the beginning of each month. He stayed on for a couple of months to help the transition, as some of the regulars were real backwoods types and seriously distrusted outsiders. 
One day one of the old timers and his clan came in to do some business and, without a word, Monty handed me the card with the man's name and charges.
It was "Lloyd", which I pronounced properly, only to have them all bust out laughing at the stupid yankee; everyone knows that there are two "L's", so it's pronounced "El-loyd"!


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## yulzari (Apr 30, 2012)

Bore da meatloaf109

He would have trouble with a Llewellyn from Llanelli then!

Dobar den to your girlfriend Rosi Graugeist. My grandfather came from Yambol.


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## meatloaf109 (May 1, 2012)

Good morning to you, Yulzari.
Most of the settelers here came from Scotland originally, we have a festival every year to honor that.
(The local "Indian" population does not participate)
The old Confederacy is alive and well also, there is a plaque outside of the courthouse commerating a young girl that spit on the Union troops that occupied Franklin.
There is a painting inside that depicts this event as well!


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## A4K (May 2, 2012)

buffnut453 said:


> That's easy-peasy...just ask them to say "Australian" and if what they say sounds like "Strine" then they're Aussies.





Not just the accents get confused but the identities. Met a Canadian idiot in Sweden who tried to tell me New Zealand was an Australian state. Just said to him 'Canada's part of the USA isn't it?' - you should have seen his reaction! "Same thing" I said.


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