# P-40 ID help please



## phas3e (Nov 13, 2010)

Looking for some help from P-40 experts

Serial Number is what I'm really after though I'm only assuming its 57th FG in Tunisia
Based on the Lack of Bars on the Stars the style of Numbering and the 'desert pink' paint scheme.

The image has the serial as 413926 but 4-413926 is the well known P-51D E2*S of the 361st FG

Most P-40Fs I have looked into use 4-113xxx to 4-114xxx I can safely assume the above number is wrong or incomplete.








any help would be great


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 13, 2010)

There is a P-40F that had a serial number 41-13926. Perhaps the extra 1 was left out.


http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1941_3.html


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## Siccmade (Nov 13, 2010)

Looks like the P-40E


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## Colin1 (Nov 13, 2010)

Siccmade said:


> Looks like the P-40E


Lack of facility for down-draught carburation - it's not an E

Serials for F production would be 

*P-40F*
41-13600 to 41-13695 and
41-13697 to 41-14299
Total run - 699 a/c
Jan - Aug 1942

*P-40F-5*
41-14300 to 41-14422
Total run - 123 a/c
Aug 1942

*P-40F-10*
41-14423 to 41-14599
Total run - 127 a/c
Oct - Nov 1942

*P-40F-15*
41-19733 to 41-19932
Total run - 200 a/c
Dec 1942

*P-40F-20*
41-19933 to 41-20044
Total run - 112 a/c
Jan 1943

That puts your bird, if the serial is correctly reported, in the second run of P-40Fs


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 13, 2010)

I have to disagree, according to _America's Hundreed Thousand_, 1,311 were produced as Warhawks, and another 250 were built as Kittyhawk II's for export.


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## Colin1 (Nov 13, 2010)

vikingBerserker said:


> I have to disagree, according to _America's Hundred Thousand_, 1,311 were produced as Warhawks, and another 250 were built as Kittyhawk IIs for export.


230 Kittyhawk IIs 
were delivered to the RAF but Kittyhawk IIs were P-40Fs and Ls. This is not a separate count, these can be subtracted from USAAF deliveries.

RAF serials FL219 to FL488
Jul - Aug 1942
Lend-Lease


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 13, 2010)

I believe the 250 is in addition to those that were delivered to the US Military and then give to other countries. The 250 I quoted were Kittihawk II's that were the export version of the P-40F and not all of those went to the RAF.


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## Colin1 (Nov 13, 2010)

vikingBerserker said:


> I believe the 250 is in addition to those that were delivered to the US Military and then give to other countries. The 250 I quoted were Kittihawk II's that were the export version of the P-40F and not all of those went to the RAF.


They were the export version alright
but I'm pretty sure they were Fs and Ls - not that there was a great deal of difference
I'll dig around but it's getting pretty late here


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 13, 2010)

You are correct about the Kittihawk II's being both F's L's. According to the book there were 250 Kittihawk II's (P-40F) 100 Kittihawk II's (P-40L). Seems like an odd way of doing it though.


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## Colin1 (Nov 13, 2010)

vikingBerserker said:


> Seems like an odd way of doing it though.


There was nothing normal about P-40 model numbering
Off the top of my head, there were two 'versions' of the P-40K that bore no resemblance whatsoever to one another, one had the shortened fuselage and the other was sleek and streamlined with no chin radiator.

They were the early signs, if anyone did but see them, of the demise of Curtiss-Wright


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## P-40K-5 (Nov 13, 2010)

Colin1 said:


> There was nothing normal about P-40 model numbering
> Off the top of my head, there were two 'versions' of the P-40K that bore no resemblance whatsoever to one another, one had the shortened fuselage and the other was sleek and streamlined with no chin radiator.
> 
> They were the early signs, if anyone did but see them, of the demise of Curtiss-Wright


there were four production and one experimental version of the 'K' series.

P-40K-1CU P-40K-5CU were short fuse with a strake on the dorsal fin.
P-40K-10CU were long fuse.
P-40K-15CU were winterized versions
XP-40K-10CU was an experimental aircraft with the radiators moved to the wings,
and had the 'mustang' appearing nose. never went to production.


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 13, 2010)

You forgot one, the Kittihawk III which was an RAF Version of the P-40K

But I agree with Colin, there is like 43 different versions of the plane - I mean holy crap! 

Getting back to the original question, did the US ever paint their P-40's Pink or is it just Olive Drab that has faded?


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## P-40K-5 (Nov 14, 2010)

the RAF also refered to the P-40M as a KittyHawk III too.
anyways,
the colour was Light Sand (pink.. but not really). some others were OD,
and others yet were earth/middlestone. depend really on which fighter
group. 'pink' was primarly used by the 57th.


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 14, 2010)

Very interesting, thanks for the info.


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## P-40K-5 (Nov 14, 2010)

no problem. anything P-40 related don't hessitate to ask me.


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## Colin1 (Nov 14, 2010)

P-40K-5 said:


> No problem. Anything P-40 related don't hesitate to ask me


Sure
can you clear up the issue in the thread over the Kittyhawk II?


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## P-40K-5 (Nov 14, 2010)

Colin1 said:


> Sure
> can you clear up the issue in the thread over the Kittyhawk II?


sure. that one is from the 66th FS / 57th FG. 'GOODBYE' was written on
it by the retreating Germans. kind of a 'salute'.


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 14, 2010)

Nice!


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## P-40K-5 (Nov 14, 2010)

I guess I should add that it was flown by Capt. George W 'Pop' Long, Egypt, 1942.


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## Colin1 (Nov 14, 2010)

Good info
but I meant the issue of manufacturing quantities for the P-40F
Were Kittyhawk II numbers inclusive or exclusive of USAAF deliveries?


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## P-40K-5 (Nov 14, 2010)

Version....................................P-40F
British Equivalent.........................KittyHawk II
Numbers built..............................1,311 (includes planes supplied to RAF)



BLOCK...............Quantity.........Ser.#.................Deliveries
P-40F-CU............96...........41-13660 ~ 41-13695.........January 1942
P-40F-1-CU..........603..........41-13697 ~ 41-14229.........Jan-Aug 1942
P-40F-5-CU..........123..........41-14300 ~ 41-14422.........August 1942
P-40F-10-CU.........177..........41-14423 ~ 41-14599.........Oct-Nov 1942
P-40F-15-CU.........200..........41-19733 ~ 41-19932.........December 1942
P-40F-20-CU.........112..........41-19933 ~ 41-20044.........January 1943

KittyHawk II........230*.........FL219 thru FL488............Jul-Aug 1942**

* This number includes both P-40Fs and P-40Ls supplied to the RAF 
** Reflects the dates of transfer of these aircraft to the RAF


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## phas3e (Nov 14, 2010)

Thanks for all the info guys 

some very hand link too.

So the name on this aircraft was painted on by the germans?
Meaning it never flew in action with this marking?


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## Colin1 (Nov 14, 2010)

phas3e said:


> Meaning it never flew in action with this marking?


Unlikely
in the colourful world of nose art, it wouldn't mean much to either side

The Axis:
Goodbye? What? You are leaving? Verdammte! I was busy shooting at you! You Amerikaners are so rude...

Might get a second look from the control tower on its way past, too

The Allies:
Pilots, you are clear for take-off, hope every one of your bombs finds the target
What's that say on his aircraft?
He's saying goodbye in German..


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 14, 2010)

P-40K-5 said:


> Version....................................P-40F
> British Equivalent.........................KittyHawk II
> Numbers built..............................1,311 (includes planes supplied to RAF)
> 
> ...



I believe there is an additional 250 that were strictly made for the export. Here is a page I took a pic of from _America's Hundred Thousand _(the scanner is at work). Since these were export, I do not believe the USAAC would have assigned a serial number to them.


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## P-40K-5 (Nov 14, 2010)

you could be right, but, all export means is that they were painted from Curtiss in RAF colours.
all were lend/lease. Licenced built P-40's in other countries got that countries Ser.#'s. however your
document could show it not as P-40F's, but P-40L's. RAF called P-40F/L's KittyHawk II.


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## Colin1 (Nov 14, 2010)

VB what do your entries for the P-40L state?


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 14, 2010)

It lists them out seperately as well:


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## HealzDevo (Nov 14, 2010)

Do we have any information about location? Because of the fact that it is showing American Markings though, I think we can safely assume that this aircraft is probably post November 1942. This as far as I know is when America got involved in the Desert Warfare with Operation Torch against Vichy France. 

Unless anyone knows of any record of Americans being involved in the Desert earlier this is a fact that gives us a potential time. Looking at the aircraft, it looks like this incident might potentially have been a landing mishap or an engine cut-out, that could have potentially been repaired. The aircraft is definately still looking intact with not too much damage to the propeller from what we can see of the photo. Therefore, I would say that you would need to look at records for perhaps Servicable Crashes to perhaps pin this one down.


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## P-40K-5 (Nov 14, 2010)

thanks VB.. good stuff.

Devo,
that aircraft belonged too Capt. George W 'Pop' Long. the above date was wrong on my part,
had too reference my notes becouse I do this off the top of my head sometimes. sorry.
it was around april 1943. He then took delivery of a brand new P-40K-1-CU. Capt. Long did
not have anything German related on any of his mount except for swastika's.  there were
Americans flying for the RAF prior to Nov 1942 however.


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## Airframes (Nov 15, 2010)

Regarding the US/British serial numbers; I would think that Curtiss would be no different from other (U.S.) manufacturers, in that American-built aircraft in British service were allocated the normal serial / BU number before construction. The British serial number was then allocated by the (British) Air Ministry, and most often, but not always, actually applied at MUs in the UK.


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