# Phoenix Missle?



## comiso90 (Aug 17, 2007)

There are a ton of reasons to love the F-14. My top reason was the Phoenix Missile.

I assume that it is retired too? what is the current long range king, of any nation, if the phoenix is defunct?

I cant believe they would retire it unless it was just too expensive and unreliable. I'd like to see a B-1 loaded with 30 phoenix missiles....

_Lure a couple dozen of the Iranian air force aloft, have a couple B-1's fire their phoenix missiles and afterburn for home. Not as much fun as a knife fight but with a range of 120 miles, it has to have some use... _

Is the phoenix too large for the Predator?

I find it easy to believe that a phoenix costs more than many of the aircraft they're likely to shoot down


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## The Basket (Aug 17, 2007)

Maybe Iranian F-14 would fire their own Phoenix.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 17, 2007)

The only aircraft that was capable of firing the Pheonix was the F-14. Because of this the US Navy no longer uses the Pheonix.

I am not sure if there is even a plan to incorporate the Pheonix into any other aircraft. I doubt it.

I am sure the Iranians still have a few but I doubt they are in decent shape and probably would not work. I know the US Maint. Techs that were working in Iran sabotaged the Iranian 14s before they left.


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## comiso90 (Aug 17, 2007)

The Basket said:


> Maybe Iranian F-14 would fire their own Phoenix.



They've probably converted them all to hookahs by now. Even if the missiles will fire, i doubt they have the fire control needed.


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## Aussie1001 (Aug 17, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> The only aircraft that was capable of firing the Pheonix was the F-14. Because of this the US Navy no longer uses the Pheonix.
> 
> I am not sure if there is even a plan to incorporate the Pheonix into any other aircraft. I doubt it.
> 
> I am sure the Iranians still have a few but I doubt they are in decent shape and probably would not work. I know the US Maint. Techs that were working in Iran sabotaged the Iranian 14s before they left.




Why is the Tomcat the only one that can fire the phoenix ?


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## comiso90 (Aug 17, 2007)

6 targets simultaneously... 120 miles...

when will we see a successor?



AIM-54 Phoenix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

..

.


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## SoD Stitch (Aug 18, 2007)

Aussie1001 said:


> Why is the Tomcat the only one that can fire the phoenix ?



The AIM-54 Phoenix was only one part of the "weapons system" installed on the F-14. The F-14 was, essentially, built around the AWG-9 analog radar; you can think of the Tomcat as merely an aerial platform for the AWG-9 radar system and the Phoenix. When the AWG-9 first came out (and for a long time afterwards), it was the most powerful radar system in the world. The USAF did not foresee the necessity of being able to hit a target 100 miles out, that was more important when you are trying to defend the fleet from pesky Soviet attack aircraft; hence, the Tomcat.

And, yes, the Phoenix was actually retired before the F-14 was, around 2000, I believe. The Iranians probably have a few still laying around, but I doubt they're very reliable at this point; they're just as likely to explode on launch as actually hit anything. I'm pretty sure the avionics, if not the motor, are shot by now. The Iranians only use their (few) F-14's as stand-off AWACs platforms, thanks to it's incredibly powerful radar, and direct less capable fighters (mostly MiG-29's) to their target(s).


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## Graeme (Aug 18, 2007)

SoD Stitch said:


> The AIM-54 Phoenix was only one part of the "weapons system" installed on the F-14. The F-14 was, essentially, built around the AWG-9 analog radar; you can think of the Tomcat as merely an aerial platform for the AWG-9 radar system and the Phoenix.



Was the Phoenix and AWG-9 a progression from the proposed F-6D's Eagle and APQ-81? I've read that the range of the Eagle was to be 115 miles.


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## Matt308 (Aug 19, 2007)

Don't know the answer to that one. But the BVRAAM and other hypersonic AAMs being developed using advanced air breathing motors (ramjets) allow for longer ranges and better terminal performance.


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## SoD Stitch (Aug 19, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Was the Phoenix and AWG-9 a progression from the proposed F-6D's Eagle and APQ-81? I've read that the range of the Eagle was to be 115 miles.



Actually, no; the missle (the Phoenix AIM-54) was a development of the GAR-9/AIM-47, which was originally designed to be used with the F-12A AMI (Advanced Manned Interceptor), an interceptor version of the SR-71 "Blackbird" (yeah, I know, it would've been an incredible interceptor, probably the best ever developed, but politics killed it). The major difference between the AIM-47 and the Phoenix was the fact that the AIM-47 used a 250 KT nuclear warhead with a semi-active radar seeker, and the Phoenix used conventional explosives with a fully-active radar seeker (albeit with analog avionics; the AIM-54C, the latest, and last, version of the Phoenix, had digital avionics). 

And the AWG-9 was a further development (like the AIM-47) of the YF-12A's AN/ASG-18 pulse-doppler radar. So, both programs were originally USAF projects that morphed into Navy programs.


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## comiso90 (Aug 19, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Don't know the answer to that one. But the BVRAAM and other hypersonic AAMs being developed using advanced air breathing motors (ramjets) allow for longer ranges and better terminal performance.



That introduces other questions. Unless there have bee some breakthroughs, the Ram effect only takes place at hyper sonic speeds. That means a ramjet powered missile would have to be launched by a platform traveling fast or it would have to have its own rockets capable of boosting it to speeds in which the ramjet will take place.

Both scenarios are limiting.

Although, a ramjet means you could launch a missile in Idaho and hit a plane in Iran.


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## SoD Stitch (Aug 19, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> That introduces other questions. Unless there have bee some breakthroughs, the Ram effect only takes place at hyper sonic speeds. That means a ramjet powered missile would have to be launched by a platform traveling fast or it would have to have its own rockets capable of boosting it to speeds in which the ramjet will take place.
> 
> Both scenarios are limiting.
> 
> Although, a ramjet means you could launch a missile in Idaho and hit a plane in Iran.



This is true; although the MBDA Meteor (which is what I assume we're talking about) is not a true ramjet. The missle contains an integral booster rocket and a "TDR", or throttleable ducted rocket, not a ramjet. Once the missle is up to speed on the rocket propulsion (approx. Mach 2), the TDR takes over and propels the missle to it's target.

As for the "launch a missle in Idaho and hit a plane in Iran" scenario, the missle is, of course, limited by how much fuel it can carry; I doubt any missle, no matter how efficient, could carry enough fuel to make it halfway around the world, never mind how it gets guided there.


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## comiso90 (Aug 19, 2007)

SoD Stitch said:


> As for the "launch a missle in Idaho and hit a plane in Iran" scenario, the missle is, of course, limited by how much fuel it can carry; I doubt any missle, no matter how efficient, could carry enough fuel to make it halfway around the world, never mind how it gets guided there.



Isnt it true that if you get a ram jet flying high enough and fast enough, they need very little fuel?

scramjet?


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## Graeme (Aug 19, 2007)

*COMISO*!..Just the man to settle a gentlemans dispute (with an 80 year old man). He's trying to convince me that an American wallet is WIDER than an Australians, because your 'green bills' are also wider(?) This fifty note is 65mm wide.

TRUE/FALSE?


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## comiso90 (Aug 19, 2007)

Graeme said:


> *COMISO*!..Just the man to settle a gentlemans dispute (with an 80 year old man). He's trying to convince me that an American wallet is WIDER than an Australians, because your 'green bills' are also wider(?) This fifty note is 65mm wide.
> 
> TRUE/FALSE?


Here is the most recent aussie bill (i dont see a date on it!) i have next to an american bill.

Ours are a touch longer buy yours is wider. I'm not sure it's enough to influence wallet design.

Does that help?

... I have German and Russian notes pre 1920 that are huge!

.


..


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## Graeme (Aug 19, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> Does that help?..



Yes and no. Unfortunately we no longer use two dollar or one dollar notes. They're both coins now (hang onto that two dollar note!).
But looking at your 'quick response' scan I doubt the Big American Wallet theory.
He spent some time in the States as a manager for Coca-Cola. He also feels that all the notes have different widths to assist the BLIND?!
Nice old bloke..but crafty..could be taking the piss out of me!

Dates? what dates?..they'd be SERIAL numbers wouldn't they?

Thanks for your time...
...back to the Phoenix...


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