# Do 217N



## Erich (Apr 7, 2005)

Guten morgen Freunden !

a little special something for all of you if you are interested in German night fighter types. Here is the downloadable version of this early German Nachtjäger from Dan's extensive web-site......

http://www.histavia21.net/MAN217/do217- N1.htm

my cousin and ace Hans Baer flew a Do 217N for a period of time in 1942 in 4./NJG 3 before the transfer of Bf 110G-4's into his staffel.

enjoy !


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## Erich (Nov 11, 2005)

just thought I would mention that Daviod Williams book will cover 1-2 profiles of D0 217N's in his first volume of nachtjäger jagdwaffe series of classic publicatgions just released in the UK .........

boy this is an old thread...


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## CharlesBronson (Nov 11, 2005)

Good info Erich, awesome firepower by the way 8) 4x mg-151.


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## Erich (Nov 11, 2005)

Gute Jagd CB !

yes it was the Do 217 that was first tested with the upward firing 2cm Schrägwaffen via Rudi Schonert before Paul Mahle got ahold of the item and made it from mockup to reality in his 5./NJG 5 Bf 110G-4 staffel and soon after all NJG 5 a/c were equipped ...............


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 12, 2005)

Erich I know about the upward firing weapon, was there also a downward firing one for anti tank purposes?


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## Erich (Nov 12, 2005)

Adler used experimentally on the Hs 129 and teh Fw 190F. also an upward type used with the Me 163 Komet on experimentation.

The Schräge Musik was entirely the Night fighters

Bf 110G-4
Ju 88C, G's
Do 217's
He 219A's

and a host of smaller twin engines we would never think of. Talk of one in the Bf 109G and Me 262A


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 12, 2005)

Cool thanks that is what I thought.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 12, 2005)

it would've been very interesting to have seen it in a -109........


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## CharlesBronson (Nov 12, 2005)

Do-217 night fighter with 4 x 7,92 mm and 4 x 20 mm in the front, and 4 x 20mm Mg-151 in the Schräge Musik emplacement.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 13, 2005)

I really wonder how accurate that system would have been.


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## Erich (Nov 13, 2005)

4 2cm in the Schrägwaffen position was proved to much. the whole understructure of the ehavy 4 eninge bomber was torn to pieces and the Do 217 crew suffered with falling debris. Reduction to two 2cm was powerful enough to do the job. the four mg's in the front were not enough, and with heavy arms the Do 217 was a lumbering truck just like the first He 219A-0's. too much of a good thing and then with all the experimentation of what 3m weapons to use in the undertray, wastage of this and the machines not to operative units, thusly only four 2cm's were needed as it had already been priven with the Ju 88G variants but it took the Nachtjagd too long to figure it out........


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 13, 2005)

How accurate though was it in hitting its intended target.


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## Erich (Nov 13, 2005)

it did the job but in my data it appearead the forward arms were used more, it again the Do 217 was used primarily for a test bed and then implemented by August 43 in NJG 5's Bf 110G-4's, since the big truck Do 217 was being phased out. Only Do 217's NJg 4 remained till spring of 44 in some staffels apparently.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 13, 2005)

The foward arms seem they would be more effective to me.


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## Erich (Dec 28, 2005)

actually slightly off the topc head, but have any of you gents recently picked up Classic Pubs Nachtjäger volume and also volume 2 yet, written by author David Williams ? also released in the staes through Specialty press. the first volume evidently has a profile of a Do 217 in my cousins former staffel 4./NJG 3.

E ~


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 29, 2005)

Nope that I have not.


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## Erich (Dec 29, 2005)

ok I just ordered the first volume so will give my thoughts when it arrives in my little office in about 10 days ..... amazon.com is the plae to go, nearly 10.00 off the cover price


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## book1182 (Dec 29, 2005)

Wasn't the 217 developed as a bomber??? I can see the Ju-88 being used as a night fighter. How big was the 217? Wasn't it pretty big to be used as a fighter?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 30, 2005)

well the -88 wasn't axactily small, fact is at night you're not going to get into a dogfight at night so you don't have to be able to turn on a sixpence, what you do need is a big airframe capable of taking a radar system and large weapons.......


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## Erich (Dec 30, 2005)

the Do 217 was used as a bomber especially with the HS 293 and associated air to surface rockets.

although, the Do 217N was a big night fighter, too big actually and too slow it probably had the most massive firepower of any of the German night fighters on operations. The He 219 Uhu in concept only had the heaviest cannon fitted.

The Do 217N had a large fuel capacity so could fly long distances to chase the RAF bombers but since it's concept was a bomber as well and a big one in the German arsenal it had a hard time catching up with RAF bombers at altitude


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 30, 2005)

The Do-217 was only about 5ft longer than the Ju-88 anyhow.


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## loomaluftwaffe (Dec 31, 2005)

ive heard that the Do17Z had good manouverability... for a bomber, i dont know about the 217 though


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## Erich (Dec 31, 2005)

well I did a little old investigative work and noted in my data base that ace Rudi Schonert flew a Do 217 while with NJG 5 for a time. On one mission he stretched the speed of his big boy a/c to the limit and had a terrible time closing upon a soviet B-25 Mitchell but he did catch it and blew it apart with the forward firing weapons


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 31, 2005)

Im not sure on the maneuverability of the 217. The 17 had decent maneuverability when it came out. That is compared to fighters of the time it came out. By 1940 it was hopelessy outclassed by fighters.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 31, 2005)

but it wasn't going up against fighters at night (well not many), it was mostly up against the 4 engined heavies..........


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 31, 2005)

Exactly and for that I think the Ju-88 was the best one. It did not have to be very very maneuverable but rather heavy armed. It had eneogh space for a effective radar and it could carry good armament to take down bombers.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 31, 2005)

it just had to hope there wasn't a mossie in the vacinity.......


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 31, 2005)

True....


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## Erich (Dec 31, 2005)

go to the Mossie vs Ju 88 thread I started..........Ju 88's shot down mossie night fighters but also the reverse as well ........

the Do 217 was clumsy and it was there to add or replace the Bf 110G on the Ost front for short time.

to me it was an overarmed piece of junk in the Luftwaffe arsenal but it was used since it was available and because of range could cover the distance, the Bf 110G major short coming was lack of fuel reserves even with external drop tanks used till wars end.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 1, 2006)

Basically in the latter parts of the war I would think it would come down to who had the better radar.


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