# Geedee and Rocketeer's 8th Army Air Force Tailwheel Tour 2012



## Geedee (Oct 16, 2012)

As the title suggest, this yet another of our 'whirlwind' tours that we try and take every other year. 

Picture the scene a few months back, Tony and I have been knocking about the idea of a WW2 8Th AAF tour but we hadn't found a suitable theme to help us. Tony comes back from the States with a B-17 taiwheel in his hand luggage (as you do !) and the seed is set. Fast forward to early last week and we have a plan to take a complete B-17 tailwheel and also one from P-51 to a few WW2 Museums' / Memorials in Norfolk / Suffolk on a four day long weekend....and take pics of the wheels on original airfield paving, relating to what flew from where, prefereably with some recognisable infrastructure included.

Simples ?. Yeah righty !!!!.

Some statistics :-
Tony's pics = 1000...Gary's pics = 2612
Total mileage = 920 Miles
Diesel used = £150:00
Total driving time = 25.30 hours

And a load more statistics to follow through the thread 

We visited 23 locations varying from road side Memorials to full blown Tower Museums to an airshow. We'll be doing a section on each of the places we visited, with details about what we found, how accessible, whats there, what to see, what to avoid etc. This'll probably take a good week to get it all down for you guys so keep checking back.

And I haven't mentioned our mascot / freeloader yet !!

In the meanwhile, here's a quick taster while I'm getting the first batch of pics ready...and yes, we really where that close to the 51' takeoff...OMFG, what a soundtrack


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## fubar57 (Oct 16, 2012)

Great photos Gary, waiting for the other 3605....tick, tick, tick.

Geo


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## Rocketeer (Oct 16, 2012)

Well....that was one amazing long weekend.....first up was Steeple Morden......quite honestly one of the best memorials I have ever seen! Very evocative and moving. The first photo shows the B17 P51 tailwheels ready to go. The big brick building was the old Ops building.....


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## Rocketeer (Oct 16, 2012)

The unit badges from Steeple Morden......P51 Mustangs. The prop and nose bowl are real P51


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## Geedee (Oct 16, 2012)

Steeple Morden Memorial is 3-4 miles west of Royston on the Litlington road. Parking is pretty limited to about 3 cars on the other side of the road. 

The old ops building is about a half mile farther on the left hand side of the road. It's in use as an agricultural building for storage. There is a bit of peri-track still in use by the farmers but most of the rest of the airfield infrastructure is all long gone. 

For futher info on the 355 FG ...clickey here :-
8th Air Force Fighter Group - Littlefriends.co.uk

One word describes this memorial...WOW. We had a chat with one of the local farmers and he recounted stories of the War and also the Memorial open days and was a mine if usefull info. 

There is one thing we found throughout the whole weekend and that was how helpfull and happy to chat the land owners were, wherever we went. A useful tip is to deffo go and knock on the farmhouse door, explain what you are doing and you will be pleasantly surprised by how you are treated....it also opens up lots of opportunities for further exploring with access permission to some of the sites away from roads.


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## Gnomey (Oct 16, 2012)

Great stuff so far Gary and Tony! Looking forward to the rest of the pics.


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## hub (Oct 16, 2012)

Great photos
I'd love to do a tour of the old bases
8)


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## Airframes (Oct 16, 2012)

Brilliant idea, and great pics Gary and Tony. Looking forward to the next batch - and still giggling about the tail wheels in the boot of the car !


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## Crimea_River (Oct 16, 2012)

Who needs a spare?

Great pics of what looks like a great trip!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 16, 2012)

Great stuff. More pics please.


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## Geedee (Oct 17, 2012)

Cheers guys.

Last few from me from Steeple Morden.

While walking down to the Ops Building, I noticed this in the ploughed field. Whilst I can't confirm its Wartime vintage, to me it certainly looks like it as the leather was 'delaminating quite nicely etc. Might be wrong but hey !. And finaly, some remains of an old building. We're hoping to find detailed aerial photo's from WW2 so we can see what the buildings that remain are !


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## Geedee (Oct 17, 2012)

Once we'd managed to prize ourselves away from this fantastic memorial, we moved on to Fowlmere.

Fowlmere was the home of the 339 Fighter Group ... 339th Fighter Group

The memorial is at Manor Farm on the Airfield. Access was limited so we didn't get the chance for too much of a nose-around. Managed to snap a few pics before we moved on. Tony has some other shot's, he'll be posting soon...


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## Rocketeer (Oct 17, 2012)

Fowlmere was also a Battle of Britain airfield (satellite to Duxford). As we entered the old base, a Spitfire was flying around. The P51 tailwheel came out. We also went to the beautiful local church yard.
My Merlin came from a Mustang, 'Elizabeth Jane' that was lost from Fowlmere.


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## Airframes (Oct 17, 2012)

Great stuff. I might have an airfield plan for Steeple Morden, plus others - I'll have a look through my stuff.


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## Wayne Little (Oct 19, 2012)

What a great series of pics!


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## Geedee (Oct 19, 2012)

Cheers guys. There's a load more to come !!!

Once we'd finished listening to the Spittie, it was back into the wheels and off to Bottisham.

Bottisham was the home of the 361st Fighter Group. You will have heard of Bottisham from me as I've taken my '51 to the Museum run by Jason and the gang over the past few years. The Museum has had to move into temporary accommodation at the Royal British Legion as the site they where originally on, is under threat of property developers. This is a shame as the site is a real time warp, with original buildings and shelters and it consists of original domestic buildings.

The 361st FG had a distinct yellow nose on their birds and had the handle 'The Yellow Jackets'....
361st Fighter Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
8th Air Force Fighter Group - Littlefriends.co.uk
Bottisham Airfield Museum - Events Page

We stopped and asked for permission to take pics from the current owner.

On some of the previous open-days there have been guided tours of the airfield remains which are very informative !. My last piccie is of an air-raid shelter...its in there...honest !!


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## Rocketeer (Oct 19, 2012)

Just got back from doing the dunker......still full of chlorine....will post something tomorrow!


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## michaelmaltby (Oct 19, 2012)

Great photographs .... ghosts that speak .. 

MM


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## T Bolt (Oct 19, 2012)

Great stuff guys!


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## Wildcat (Oct 19, 2012)

Fantastics guys! Wish I could do something similar.


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Oct 19, 2012)

Gary, you two have done it again! Great idea and photos. This is a great tour!


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## Rocketeer (Oct 20, 2012)

Bottisham was a joy - a real time capsule - I could just imagine pilots and groundcrew mingling in the domestic site. A jeep sat by a hut with a crusher cap on the bonnet and B3 on the back seat.
We found a fantastic light fitting that must be saved if the area is 'developed'. Popped the wheel onto a bit of hard standing on the old airfield site.


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## Geedee (Oct 20, 2012)

> Great photographs .... ghosts that speak


We certainly attended a mumber of 'atmospheric' locations during the trip. Theres something that just gets you when you stand by an old Watch Tower or wonder out onto the remians of a peri-track / runway that gets the hairs standing to attention. I'm actually sat here typing this update with 'In the Mood' playing quietly on the pc speakers, remembering the places we visited and theres an annoying drop of moisture in the corner of my right eye that wont go away !. I wasn't around in the last big one but when you do a road trip and see at first hand where the boys went to work, you have to be diamond hard not to be affected in some way.



> Fantastics guys! Wish I could do something similar.


We're actually thinking of trying to organise a trip, if not next year, then deffo the year after, for any-one thats interested. In the meantime, if any of you guys from across the Pond or elsewhere are making plans for a visit here, get in touch and we can sort you out. Heck, we'll probably end up taking you around ourselves...any excuse for another road-trip !!



> Gary, you two have done it again! Great idea and photos. This is a great tour


Dude...we're still only on the first days places, loads more to come 

Right, hanky has been put in for a wash, so its time to move on from Bottisham, to Rougham.

Rougham is a few mileseast of Bury St Edmunds and was the home to the 94th Bomb Group and 322nd Bomb Group.
http://www.8thafhs.org/bomber/94bg.htm
http://94thbombgroup.com/
http://usaaf.com/8thaf/bomber/94bg.HTM

http://www.rougham.org/322nd-mission.php

There is lot of original buildings remaining and all are in use by the local farmer. Again, we stopped a couple of guys prepping a tractor and asked if it was OK to take pics of the buildings (this is before we had got to the Watch Tower Museum itself !). With the go ahead, we started snapping away (OK, I did !) and it was very noticable that there wasn't one building that wasn't in use and not falling into decay. 

Once we had left the 'farm yard' we drove past the runway but this was on private land and onto the Watch Tower museum itself


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## Geedee (Oct 20, 2012)

And onto the Museum itself.

The museum was closed when we arrived so didn't get the chance to have a look inside...means a return trip , so we took some shots of the outside.

Around the memorial wall are a lot of plaques for crews that didn't come back, and when I topped to look at them, it became more poignant when you see not only the names of the crews but also their mounts...almost seem more personal than just a list of names as the planes are recognised by their own names....

Just take a few minutes to scan through them, you will recognise a few...


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## Airframes (Oct 20, 2012)

More great pics guys. You can put Mick and I on the list for any future tours - it's something we've already talked about, so we're very keen !


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## Rocketeer (Oct 20, 2012)

Rougham was brilliant (though the burgers we had stayed with us all day!!). It was known as Bury St Edmunds in the war; only been known as Rougham more recently. The memorial site is amazing. Most of the airfield is being encroached by housing. Over the years, I have been to various fly ins. The airfield is likely to be built on more and more. The Flying Fortress is a rather lovely pub. The B17 tailwheel made its debut.


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## Airframes (Oct 20, 2012)

Nice pics Tony. I've driven past Rougham many times, but never had the time to call in. Good to see the tower and so many buildings so well preserved.


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## Jeff Hunt (Oct 20, 2012)

If there was a contest for thread of the year, this one would get my vote and many others I am sure. Absolutely brilliant!!!!


Cheers,

Jeff


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## Gnomey (Oct 20, 2012)

Great shots guys!


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## Geedee (Oct 21, 2012)

> If there was a contest for thread of the year, this one would get my vote and many others I am sure. Absolutely brilliant!!!!



Cheers Jeff 

After Rougham we moved onto the one time home of the 385th Bomb Group at Great ashfield. 
385th Bomb Group

The airfield is around 2 miles south of the village and is basically all now agricultural land with a few buildings. 

There is no memorial or museum here. 

We parked next to a gate marked private and took some pics over the fence....and as we couldn't see anyone to ask, we did very quickly nip through an unlocked gate to take a few pics of the wheel on the runway.

In short, there is not a lot here to see but it was another runway and with a bit of imagination, could see the 17's lumbering down the runway towards us....


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## Geedee (Oct 21, 2012)

We quickly moved on to the next site at Mendlesham.

Medndlesham was the home of the 34th Bomb Group and the airfield is about 3 miles SE of the village.
34th Bomb Group

Now its all one huge industrial estate. We couldn't find the memorial so stopped at the gate house to the industrial estate and asked for directions. The guard was quite positive that we , a. couldn't enter the site and b. there was nothing left of the airfield. He did however tell us where the memorial was and that its was a difficult place to access. We thanked him, drove back to the main road, turned left and almost imediately left down a small grass cut-in and there was the memorial.

Or rather there it wasn't !. 

The brickwork was in place but some theiving pikey bastids had stolen the actual plaque !. We couldn't believe it but stopped to take some pics anyway. The memorial gravel was looking decidely unloved and untended and there were a few miserable looking offerings next to the wall. Tony and I spent about 10 minutes removing some of the weeds from in front of the memorial wall, but I'm afraid that without gloves, we left the thistles in place (not very heroic compared to what the youngsters went through admitidly !) but we felt a bit better.

Parking space is limited to probably two cars and you are pulling off / back onto, a very very busy, very fast road so be carefull and wait for a gap in the traffic !. Feeling rather despondant we left with heavy heart as this had put a definite 'downer' on our trip. The missing plaque was made of bronze and put in place way back in 1949 !. So no airfield and plaque, it felt as though the World had forgotten all about the sacrifice of the 34th Bomb Group.

However... fast forward to next day and when driving past the memorial, we spotted what looked like a Nissen hut with a tallish brick chimney down a side road. Tony has an amazing ability to make his car act like the CGI fighters in the latest warfilms....in other words we executed a perfect 90 degree right turn(pulling 9 G !!!) and with no apparent loss of forward momentum, found ourselves travelling down yet another small road on our right this time to pull outside the building. This is now a small engineering workshop but was an original building and we found a bit of original peri track to the piccie of the '17 wheel on.

This cheered us up no end. When we'd finished, out trusty sat nav said to carry on the way we were pointing. so we did and not two corners later, came face to face with the main runway !.
Moral of the story is...dont trust gate guards as they have absolutely no bl**dy idea what they are talking about !!

I'll leave Tony to add the pics we took on the runway plus any others.

And on a happier note, back at work on Tuesday, I was looking for details about the missing plaque. It was stolen around a year ago and not recovered. There are actually a lot of people heavlily involved in the memorial and the really good news is that according to a local meeting held in the first week of this Month (Oct) a new memorial will be built to a similar size, placed this time in the churchyard (St Mary's) and a replacement of the missing plaque has been modelled by a supporter (not in bronze this time) and will take pride of place when the memorial is built.


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## Rocketeer (Oct 21, 2012)

I Loved Great Ashfield. Two lovely ladies walking dogs said the farmer was a nice chap and would not mind. They were pleased to know what we were doing. The photos show the B17 wheel on a taxiway and then lined up on the runway....another close yours eyes moment and hear them line up and take off. Evocative. Although the B17 wheel is heavy, it was worth adding context to the trip.


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## rochie (Oct 21, 2012)

great thread Fella's


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Oct 21, 2012)

More GREAT material on a EXCELLENT thread for a GRAND TOUR! Thank you Gary and Tony for putting this together. Looking forward to more guys, KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!


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## hub (Oct 21, 2012)

Just had a look at Airfields of the Eighth Then and Now by Roger Freeman.
The memorial at Mendlesham must have looked magnificent in Bronze when new.
Pity that there are thoughtless people out there who couldn't give a toss!
Great thread enjoying it emensely


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## Airframes (Oct 21, 2012)

Great stuff Gary and Tony, keep it coming. And I hope the thieving, pikey bar stewards who stole the memorial plaque, have their [email protected] turn square and fester on the edges!!


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## Wayne Little (Oct 22, 2012)

Super stuff Gary and Tony, give us more!


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## Micdrow (Oct 22, 2012)

Great stuff there guys, keep it up!!!!


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## syscom3 (Oct 22, 2012)

Thank you very much for this photo tour!!!


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## Gnomey (Oct 22, 2012)

Excellent shot guys!


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## Rocketeer (Oct 22, 2012)

Mendlesham was such a disappointment with the memorial etc as Gary said. Stopping by the next day gave us a pleasant surprise with the building and runway parts. The photos show my legs plus B17 wheel. Gary lined up the wheel in takeoff mode, again....a fav pose for the wheel!
Incidentally, the base has a TV transmitter supplying many houses in Norfolk and Suffolk......


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## Airframes (Oct 22, 2012)

More good stuff guys. To some people, these places are just desolate areas of crumbling concrete and overgrown, rusting huts. But, if you're 'in the know', just stand there, look around, and listen .... _then_ the ghosts return!


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## Geedee (Oct 23, 2012)

Once we'd finished with Mendlesham, it was back in the car and off to the last but one destination for our first day of travels and that was to the 493rd Bomb Group Memorial and Tower Museum. The Memorial is under an Oak tree near the Headquarters about 3 miles West of Woodbridge at Debach.

493rd Bomb Group
Helton's Hellcats 493rd BG(H) Debach

Tony and I had a bit of a discussion on how to actualy pronounce Debach...was it said like 'Debatch', Deeback, De-back ?...we had no idea !. Well, we had the satnav set up so followed the directions and ended up on what looked like a farm....hmmmmmm. So we stopped and had a chat with a gentleman who was doing some work on an old US Army truck, figuring that he might know where we had to go. Best thing we did !

Turned out that not only was he the owner of the truck, he owned the land the museum was on and also farmed the locale !. Once we explained what we where doing he couldn't have been more helpfull. I must apologise for I cannot for the life of me remember his name or his colleague who said "Follow me and I'll take you there and also open up the Museum for you !". So we basically had the Muesum and its surrounding buildings opened up for us to have a good look around and we had some brilliant anecdotes and useful bits of info from the guys. They were both very knowledgable and genuinely interested in what they have on site. Top marks to both.

Wow....just about sums up what we found. The Tower had been renovated and some of the nearby buildings converted into extra displays for the museum and the surrounding area was well very well tended and you could tell it was looked after by people who have passion in what they were trying to achieve and took pride in thier efforts. To stand on the top of a genuine WW2 Watch Tower and look out over the surrounding land is a very humbling experience !

Parked on a hardstanding right next to the Tower was an airfield controllers caravan replete with original nose perspex from a '17 !!. 

Heres some of the pics we took at this gem of a Museum. If you ever get the chance, spend at least a day here and you wont regret it at all. We were told that the airfield often gets 'bounced' both by 'Sally B' and also by Maurice Hammond in his '51's 'Marinell' and 'Janie'. Apparently, you hear Maurice and have no idea from which direction his coming....but he's always 'Low' ! 

I'll leave Tony to add pics from the runway, the internal shots from the Museum and a few more from the Tower, I might add some more later on as well. Tony will also introduce a 'third' crew member !

And incidentaly, we were both wrong, its pronounced 'Debbitch' !


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## Rocketeer (Oct 23, 2012)

As Gary says Debach was great....the owner and his helper were fine chaps who made us very welcome and opened the museum. They have some lovely exhibits. The Control tower is the only one in the UK that is actually laid out as it would have been with equipment etc. A veteran actually helped them get the paint shade and contents right.
Again, out came the B17 tailwheel and onto the runway it sat! We found a fragment in the ploughed field where a B17 landed with a bomb load. They got out just before it blew up, blowing the doors off a hangar. Dunno what it is. The domestic site was awesome. It is a real treat. The bomb aimers panel off a B17 (french one) was used on the runway caravan.
After the war the airfield was used for POWs. There is an awesome collection of items made by the POWs in the museum
After Debach we went to Martlesham Heath then to stay Friday night at my parents in Felixstowe...


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## Rocketeer (Oct 23, 2012)

It is now we should introduce our 3rd 'crew' member - a fly called Ing (gettit?!). Anyway, around this time of year in the UK, black flies are rare to find...they don't like the cold!!! Anyway, on friday when we started, we noted a lethargic fly in the car. Every day he flew around the car - stayed in the car, even when the doors were open. At night, we went to stay at my parents (night 1 3) or a hotel and up he awoke when the car warmed up. He stayed all the trip - he is probably Cat D in the bottom of the car now. Gary and I wondered what he might have been in a previous life!! Not much fun if he'd been ex Luftwaffe and forced to visit 8th AF bases!! Anyway, I digress.


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## nuuumannn (Oct 23, 2012)

Bloody marvellous, guys; a real gem of a thread. Can't wait to read more!


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Oct 23, 2012)

More excellent material on this grand tour guys. The fragment looks like a handle bezel. Not sure though. The shaft would have stuck through the large hole with the handle attached to it and the two small holes are for rivets.


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## Airframes (Oct 23, 2012)

Excellent. What a grate place, and more good shots. BTW, both Elvington and East Kirkby have Towers equipped as they were during WW2, but they are, of course, both ex-RAF (and Free French) stations.
What's the big chunk of aircraft part outside the nissen hut?


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## T Bolt (Oct 23, 2012)

Great tour guys! 
Did your travels take you to Sta. 134 at Eye? My dad flew B-24s out of there with the 490th. I've looked at it on Google earth and it looks like most of the runway paving is still there, but also a lot of newer industrial looking buildings.


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Oct 24, 2012)

Airframes said:


> Excellent. What a grate place, and more good shots. BTW, both Elvington and East Kirkby have Towers equipped as they were during WW2, but they are, of course, both ex-RAF (and Free French) stations.
> What's the big chunk of aircraft part outside the nissen hut?



I was wondering the same thing Terry. Forgot to ask though.


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## Wayne Little (Oct 24, 2012)

Man...I'm loving this thread....


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## Rocketeer (Oct 24, 2012)

The lump of aircraft by the Nissen hut is an airborne lifeboat that would be dropped from the belly of an aircraft. They were fitted to sevral bomber types including Wellingtons


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## Airframes (Oct 24, 2012)

I had a feeling that's what it might be! Used on Hudson, Lanc, and Warwick too, as well as US B-17s. Thanks Tony.


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## Rocketeer (Oct 24, 2012)

Here is a photo of the full lifeboat. I think it was a B17 one. 
TBolt, we drove past Eye a few times. When I next get the chance I will try and find some evidence


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## Geedee (Oct 24, 2012)

> What's the big chunk of aircraft part outside the nissen hut?



Yup, its an underslung lifeboat. There was a picture at the site showing one very similar to this one, hung underneath a '17 !



> Did your travels take you to Sta. 134 at Eye? My dad flew B-24s out of there with the 490th. I've looked at it on Google earth and it looks like most of the runway paving is still there, but also a lot of newer industrial looking buildings.



Yes Glenn. We drove past Eye a number of times and you are right, its nearly all industrial estate at the moment. A very large industrial estate indeed !. Unfortunately, Eye wasn't on our list of places to visit because if we did a detour wherever we something old and WW2'ey, we'd have missed out on a lot of stuff. We were aiming to hit '17 and 51' bases but we will be returning to catch up on 24', 47', 38' bases probably next year. And you can guarantee we'll be taking a few pics !! 

Interesting trivia bit part two...
When the air bases were being built, it was the largest construction effort ever undertaken in the UK.
Once completed, essentially there was an air base every 8 to 10 miles !!! (Thats why we had to be focused an not easily distracted)
We had 15 impromtu 'pit-stops'
We had 20 cheeky conversations that lead to permission to explore and photograph other areas not normally open


And heres a few more pics. There's a load I wont post, otherwise you wont have any reason to visit


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## Airframes (Oct 24, 2012)

Great stuff again guys. That last shot is interesting - the bomb site vaults were under armed guard at all times, and, when a site was withdrawn, it was escorted to (and from) the aircraft under armed guard also. Must have been a lot of guards walking around with 1911 Colt APCs !


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## Geedee (Oct 24, 2012)

Cheers Terry, didn't know that !

When we left Debach, it was a shortish trip to our last stop of the first day and that was at Martlesham Heath.

As you know, I've taken my '51 to Martlesham two times so far... and so far, I failed miserably in getting time to go and have a look around the Tower Museum !!. And again on this time, it still wasn't going to happen. To be expected really as it was getting late in the day (you can see how dull my pic is), but rest assured, I will one day manage to spend some time with guys that run the Museum and I know its going to good !

So, whats at Martlesham Heath ? the 356th Fighter Group thats who

356th Fighter Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
RAF Martlesham Heath Aviation Society MHAS Home Page 

You should also read this.... !! MHAS - Bill Crump and coyote Jeep RAF Martlesham Heath Memories

Unfortunately, my camera is playing up and I'm getting some beautifuly ruined pics in low light scenarios so I'll only post one that I took at the Museum...and this was taken from under a tree as at the moment we arrived, it started to 'chuck it down' !

There is ample parking at the Museum...should be because it looks like a full blown hardstanding right next to the tower itself.

And once Tony has put his pics on then that effectively draws a close on our first day of the tour !. Tired but very happy and looking forward to an exciting day on the Saturday...who said Mustangs ! .. we retired to tony's parents. 

I'll start the Saturdays trip tomorrow eve....its gonna be a cracker


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## Gnomey (Oct 24, 2012)

Great stuff guys!


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## Rocketeer (Oct 24, 2012)

Martlesham Heath had an amazing career in aviation. Prior to the US 8thAF, it had been RAF. In fact, my Dad's Dad was there in the 1920s when he was in MT, I think. My Mum's side of the family have lived in/around Felixstowe for over 100 years.

The Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment was at Martlesham Heath right up to Sept 1939 when it moved inland to Boscombe Down. It was also an RAF station during the Battle of Britain.
Anyway, the time we visited was in the last dregs of Autumnal sun light.....with towering clouds and thick black skies that unleashed a storm of rain on us. The shots are somewhat moody!


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## Airframes (Oct 24, 2012)

Great stuff guys, and another place I've driven past numerous times. Never knew there was a museum there though - thought it was just industrial and BT.
BTW, thanks for explaining how Debach is pronounced - like yourselves, I'd pondered on that for many years! (Would never have guessed it's 'Debitch' !!)


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Oct 25, 2012)

More excellent material and thanks for clearing that big chunk of aluminum. I have some photos somewhere of a B-17 with one of these slung underneath. I am enjoying this tour immensely. Keep up the good work.


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## Gnomey (Oct 25, 2012)

Nice shots Tony! Thanks for taking us on the tour guys.


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## B-17 Buff (Oct 25, 2012)

Great thread and great trip by the looks and sounds of things... something I also have dreamed of doing for about 20 years since having a map of all the 8th's bases marked on my wall!! I have been lucky enough to do a 'tour' of many from the air though... 8th AF East Anglian bases aerial shots 18/10/08 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums 

Also thanks for introducing me to this forum, I wouldn't have known about it otherwise!

Keep up the good work Geedee and Rocketeer - looking forward to seeing the rest.


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## Rocketeer (Oct 25, 2012)

Welcome B-17 Buff, this is a very friendly forum, glad to have you on board. We are toying with getting a minibus and doing a trip with few guys next year!


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## fubar57 (Oct 25, 2012)

Great shots and info Gary and Rocketeer. 

Geo


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## Geedee (Oct 26, 2012)

Thanks again for your comments guys much apreciated and welcome aboard B-17 Buff, you wont find a better bunch of guys 'n' gals to hang out with !


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## Geedee (Oct 27, 2012)

Okeydokey, as I said in the last entry, that wraps it up for the Friday of the tour....now its on to the Saturday and boy, what a belter that was !!

Up at Sparrow f*rt and off to the first stop of the day at Fersfield. Fersfield is about 16 miles SW of Norwich and was the home of the Aphrodite and Anvil projects. I will leave Tony to provide more details on this aspect of the base as he is quite passionate and knowledgable about its history. Its pretty much now all laid over to agriculture.

When we arrived a the co-oridnates given, we stopped at a T junction with two Nissen huts on the left hand side and some houses on the right. and that was pretty much all we could find of the airfield at this point. Once we'd had a chat with house owners and got permission to go and take some pics....we walked into a...well, you'll see. Loved the old round pin mains plugs !! This is one of those sites where Nature has done her best to take over and has produced some very haunting photo opportunities. On the plus side, the Farmers are in the process of restoring the two huts by the road side !

After some pics we then moved on up the road a short didtance and found some original peri-track, took some more pics including a hedge that was actually a complete building...and still in use !!!..and then an even shorter trip we came across an Ops building and stopped and a chat with the farmer who was very helpful !. 

Tony will also add more on this bit....


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## Airframes (Oct 27, 2012)

Great stuff Gary. I remember a friend telling me of a visit to Fersfield over 20 years ago. At that time, there were still things like bomb carriers lying around, and a wall board still with Ops orders chalked up !


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## Rocketeer (Oct 27, 2012)

Fersfield was a highlight for me. It was where Joe Kennedy and his co-pilot took off in the highly Torpex load War Weary B24 (Anvil Project). We walked around the accommodation blocks and then moved onto the main airfield. The hangars have gone but the peri track is still there. We ended up in the Ops Block which was better than that at Steeple Morden - it still had its ducting. There was an angle poise lamp which was hanging off the wall. The farmer let me have it! I could just imagine the B17 and B24 crews looking at their maps prior to their flight. The same farmer also has the old gym. A very kind gent. We did not have much time to look around so will go back next year. One of the most evocative sites we have been to. The accommodation blocks were particularly poignant and especially so as they are being recovered by nature.


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## B-17 Buff (Oct 27, 2012)

Thanks for the warm welcome guys.. a mini bus tour could be fun. A great start to Saturday's journey too!


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## Gnomey (Oct 27, 2012)

Good shots Gary!


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Oct 27, 2012)

WOW! This just keeps getting better and better! And welcome to the asylum B-17 Buff!


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## Wayne Little (Oct 28, 2012)

Aaron Brooks Wolters said:


> WOW! This just keeps getting better and better! And welcome to the asylum B-17 Buff!



Agreed!


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## Geedee (Oct 28, 2012)

Moving on from Fersfield, we fired up the trusty 'Mail Van' and headed off Thorpe Abbotts Museum.

Why the 'Mail van ?...simples really, we reckon that some of the small little windey roads we where travelling on between the airfields (remember they are only about 10 miles apart !) would have been used for the mail delivery between the bases. We really wanted to be doing this part in a genuine Willy's....but thats probably going to be another adventure in a few years time 

So, whats at Thorpe Abbotts ?. This was the home of the 100th Bomb Group. Though they didn’t have the highest overall loss rate, the group experienced heavy losses during several of its missions resulting in the group’s nickname – ‘The Bloody Hundredth'.

Home page
Official Site of the 100th Bomb Group Foundation
100th Bomb Group

The Museum is based in the original Watch Tower and a few Nissen Huts. The grounds are very well maintained and the Museum itself has some brilliant exhibits, very well worth a visit. 

Tony and I ended up ontop of the Watch Tower looking out at the flat land...now laid to agriculture... and with no wind, deep blue skies and a few whispy clouds and almost eerily silent except for a solitary Skylark signing away for her worth, it was quite an extraordinary moment. You've all seen the scenes from various War films with the planes returning from a raid, damaged and shot up, wounded and dead on board, trailing smoke, not all the wheels down etc...and I will freely admit that standing ontop of that Watch Tower at that moment, seeing it all unfold in the minds eye was quite an emotional experience !. 

There will be quite a few pics from this visit so I'll start my set off with some shots inside one of the Nissen Huts...and the last pic is something unusual I havent seen before ....


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## Rocketeer (Oct 28, 2012)

Thorpe Abbotts is one of the first and best preserved tower based museums. It is lovely! I have always loved their trailer with 4 x B17 tailwheels fitted to it! Temporarily, it adopted another one! It is a must see museum and memorial

Anyway....must fly!


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## Airframes (Oct 28, 2012)

Excellent! That last shot Gary, is that a bunker entrance?


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## Geedee (Oct 28, 2012)

Airframes said:


> Excellent! That last shot Gary, is that a bunker entrance?



It looks quite unobtrusive doesn't it...which is good cos thats what its supposed to be. 

Its a Pickett-Hamilton Fort. It was designed to help protect airfields and was raised on hydraulics by the two man crew so they could get their machine guns out and ready for use. When not needed, it was lowered back on the rams to fit flush with ground so that it didn't became a hazard to taxying aircraft. Apparently they were prone to flooding and couldn't stand up to the weight of a plane going over it as they got heavier during the war. I believe there is one in operaing condition somewhere here in the UK at a museum


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## Airframes (Oct 28, 2012)

AH, thanks Gary. I've seen diagrams of them, but not one in situ. There's a similar thing at the entrance to Elvington, but it's the armoured steel turret type, set above ground.


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Oct 28, 2012)

I know the feeling you describe when standing on the tower. I get it when I am taking a tour of a bomber. Quite overpowering. Excellent shots you to and thank you for taking the time and spending the energy and effort to do this tour.


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## Geedee (Oct 28, 2012)

Aaron Brooks Wolters said:


> I know the feeling you describe when standing on the tower. I get it when I am taking a tour of a bomber. Quite overpowering.



Check you to 10 decimal places on that one mate !!

Heres a selection of shots from the Tower and surrounding units. As Tony said, you've got to visit this place !


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## Rocketeer (Oct 28, 2012)

Gordon bennett I am fat!!!


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Oct 28, 2012)

It's not hard to imagine seeing them coming back in looking at the shots up the runway from the tower. Great shots Gary.


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## Rocketeer (Oct 29, 2012)

I hope Gary will forgive me, but I will introduce our next stop. (I am after all, sat in a hotel room with nothing to do but await a Hurricane - and I don't mean the type I love!!).
Anyhoo, we jumped back in the 'mail lorry' and wound our way down leafy country narrow lanes - for some reason, autumn seems to come early. It is only 10 miles to our next destination, but they are 10 miles of narrow lanes and it is easy to forget 2012 and imagine yourself back into 1943-1945, with Jeeps chock full of grateful crews, having survived another trip to Germany. Dashing to the nearest water hole - the Red Lion, Kings Head, White Hart......We follow them past the little cottages painted Suffolk Pink, some thatched. All bore witness to those mighty events some around 70 years ago. Hardwick takes some finding but is well worth the wait. We make our way up a single track concrete road that is likely part of the old access to the airfield. The museum is situated in several old Nissen huts, with grass beautifully kept. Outside are some lovely exhibits I wish I could own, not least a Merlin from a P51D that came down in the rich soil of Norfolk. The museum is an absolute treasure trove of all things Mustang, P47 and B24s that were stationed at Hardwick.

Although the B17s were not based at Hardwick, we had to get out the B17 tailwheel for a shot. Hardwick is extremely delightful, a tree line shows where the main runway was there is still an active airfield. Our next destination, still on the Hardwick site (domestic side) is a beautiful collection of aircraft owned and operated by Maurice Hammond.

You could say we lucked in big time! Out under the beautiful Azure blue skies were his collection of lovely warbirds. With airliners making contrails above, this was an evocative and wonderful time for us. The grass strip is cozy. Maurice owns a T6, Auster, Stearman and 2 beautiful Mustangs. Hardwick Warbirds were very welcoming. We got treated to a great display as both Mustangs took off. I will let the pictures speak for themselves! Maurice's hangar also has a lovely display of WW2 related items.

Well, I have said enough.....Gary is good at the links and historical stuff and has some video you might like!!!
The first batch of photos show the museum......


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## Rocketeer (Oct 29, 2012)

The second batch show the lovely aircraft from Hardwick Warbirds


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## Wayne Little (Oct 29, 2012)

Fantastic you guys, keep it coming...


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## Airframes (Oct 29, 2012)

Yep, keep it coming- fantastic stuff. Got to get together with you guys for the next trip!


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## Geedee (Oct 29, 2012)

> I hope Gary will forgive me, but I will introduce our next stop



Fill yer boots dude !



> Fantastic you guys, keep it coming...



We're still only about half way through day two !.....



> Yep, keep it coming- fantastic stuff. Got to get together with you guys for the next trip!



Stay tooned, you never know 

Here's my batch from the museum (And Tony...s*d off, you've allready got nearly four Merlins !  )

This Museum is for the 93rd Bomb Group and is about 3 miles south of Hempnall (12 miles SW of Norwich). 

93rd BG Homepage
93rd Bomb Group Museum
Hardwick airfield - 93rd Bomb Group -

Its a small Museum but has some real gems inside, all neatly laid out. When we'd finished with the '51's just down the road, the curator opened up everything for us and we spent a good hour or so chatting about things and the plans for the Museum...they have some exciting new stuff being planned . Well worth a visit !!


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## Gnomey (Oct 29, 2012)

Nice shots guys!


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## B-17 Buff (Oct 30, 2012)

Guys, these really are great. Thorpes is a fantastic place... very evocative. Hardwick doesn't look too shabby either! This is excellent, keep up the good work!


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## Geedee (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks guys, much apreciated

Here's only a few of the ones I took at Hardwick. Unfortunately, whenever I get close to Mustangs, I do tend to take an abnormal amount of pic's....no, its OK....I have it under control !!! 

I did take two quick vids on my mobile (how bizarre is that, that I now regularly take videos using my mobile instead of a video camera. If you'd told me I'd be doing that 10 years ago, I'd have laughed long and loud  )

I've been to shows with loads of fighters starting thier take off roll about a couple of hundred feet in front of me...and the noise is loud but obviously it gets quiter as they accelerate away. At Hardwick, I had a new experience. You probably have no idea just how awesomely bl**dy powerfull a Merlin sounds when you are standing around a hundred feet away from one on full chat, just as the fighter its pulling along aviates....OMFG, what an astoundingly deafening, almost overpowering, incredible experience. you dont just hear it....you feel it !. My poor little phone couldn't do the vid justice, but hopefully you'll get the idea...


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYPWnqGTi10_

And about 40 minutes later, they came back and Maurice did a low level pass. Now seeing and hearing a '51 take off at close quarters was pretty impressive....watching the same '51 barrelling down a grass strip at very low level and high speed the same distance away... one word springs to mind and rhymes with truck 


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZaBI0Exykc_


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## hub (Oct 31, 2012)

Great pictures and video 8)
That Mustang obsession must be a world wide thing!
I think I have a touch of that myself


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Oct 31, 2012)

More great material you two. This is great. I'm gonna hate this when it's over. And Gary, the shot I took at Wise,Va. on 2009 I was about 75 feet off the runway when Quick Silver came SCREAMING by at FULL POWER with the supercharger HUFFING for all it was worth. I had the Rocky Mountains on my arms. I can relate.


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## Geedee (Nov 2, 2012)

Cheers guys 



> That Mustang obsession must be a world wide thing!



Yup...absolutely 



> And Gary, the shot I took at Wise,Va. on 2009 I was about 75 feet off the runway when Quick Silver came SCREAMING by at FULL POWER with the supercharger HUFFING for all it was worth. I had the Rocky Mountains on my arms. I can relate.



Its not an everyday occurance to witness the raw power of a Merlin at close quarters, and those who do get the chance, relate in awe....and grin like an idiot for the rest of their days...welcome to the club dude !! 

Leaving Hardwick was a very hard thing to do, its a very special place and one I will return to without doubt !

Back on the road and as we were running late...too long drooling over the imaculate '51's... and it was off to Tibenham. Tibenham was the home of the 445th Bomb Group and is still an active airfiel (mainly gliding by the looks of it today). We stopped and had a quick cuppa in the Gliding school cafe and discovered that the windsock pole and base in use is the original dating back to WW2 !

Tibenham is about 13 miles S/SW of Norwich.

And some gems...the actor James Stewart (he was a Squadron Commander when the 445th arrived at Tibenham) was based here and a sad one is that in Sept 44, the Bomb Group lost 30 aircraft in day, very hard to take in the loss of life 

445BGMA
RAF Tibenham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
8th Air Force 445th BG

We didn't see that much of original buildings on the airfield, but the memorial (and plans to create a Heritage Centre !) make this one a place to keep an eye on for later.


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## Gnomey (Nov 2, 2012)

Good shots Gary!


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## Airframes (Nov 2, 2012)

Bl**dy marvellous! Oh, and Gary - you owe me a pair of trousers. After watching those vids, this pair are sort of wet .....


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Nov 2, 2012)

More excellent material, thank you again for the tour.


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## Geedee (Nov 3, 2012)

Airframes said:


> Bl**dy marvellous! Oh, and Gary - you owe me a pair of trousers. After watching those vids, this pair are sort of wet .....



If its any consolation...mine still are


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## Wayne Little (Nov 3, 2012)




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## Rocketeer (Nov 3, 2012)

Well, I am back from the ravages of Philly/Sandy.....glad to see we have now gone on to Tibenham. 
Tibenham was a real quick stop...sadly....but as Gary said, not much left now. The ONLY original structure was the pole for the wind sock. We had a quick hot chocolate in the flying club.


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## Geedee (Nov 4, 2012)

After Tibenham we moved on to Snetterton Heath race track. Race track?...thought this was to do with planes not cars ?.

Snetterton Heath was the home of the 386th Bomb Group and the 96th Bomb Group and is about 10 miles NE of Thetford

8th Air Force 386th BG
The 96th Bomb Group(H) Association
8th Air Force 96th BG

The access road to the race track is about a quarter mile in length and consists of fresh tarmac laid over the original concrete runway. The smell of racing engines...castrol R etc...and the noise from umpteen cars getting thrashed to within an inch of their life, didn't detract from the Memorial itself. Unfortunately, you can't see anything of the old airfield as in an attempt to reduce noise pollution, there is a large bank around the outside and you can't get access to look over the top.

The Memorial itself is bl**dy huge and is a very impressive piece of construction. It stands around 50 plus foot high and with the evening sun glinting of its polished sides portayed a very powerfull image indeed. Unlike most of the Memorials you see which consist of 'brick' walls with Marble stones, this one is as opposite as its possible to get but portrays a '17 climbing away beautifully.

I'll add a few pics of the main area but we also took a lot of 'arty' type shots, so may add some more after Tony. We didn't see any of the original building infrastructure so may be doing a return trip later to spend a bit more time looking.


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## Rocketeer (Nov 4, 2012)

Snetterton Heath was awesome and fantastic! Loved it. First batch airfield. A Learning centre has been set up in the name of the 96th BG


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## Rocketeer (Nov 4, 2012)

The memorial at Snetterton Heath was little short of awesome....the photos can speak for themselves


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Nov 4, 2012)

More excellent material guys. That's quite a memorial monument to. A little more flamboyant than usual but nice all the same. Thanks again for this tour.


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## Rocketeer (Nov 4, 2012)

I love it Aaron.....and took far too many pix.....I can see it as a true memorial.....it shows a B17 going heaven bound with its brave crew.....


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## Gnomey (Nov 4, 2012)

Good shots guys! That memorial is quite awesome.


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## Geedee (Nov 4, 2012)

Gnomey said:


> Good shots guys! That memorial is quite awesome.



Amen to that !!


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## Wayne Little (Nov 5, 2012)

Very.....er...Awesome!


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## Geedee (Nov 5, 2012)

The final place we visited on the Saturday was the Memorial to 388th Bomb Group, 6 miles SE of Thetford at Knettishall. This now all agricutltural land but the Memorial itself is a very large granite memorial and is set up at the old entrance to the airfield. I'm sure we were being watched by the old gate guard ghosts !

388th BG Assn
Index
Home of the 388th Bombardment Group

We did go walkabout behind the Memorial in and around the tree's but apart from the very broken remains of what may have been a building in the undergrowth, we didn't see much else. Parking is very limited at this site as the Memorial is right by the main road at a cross roads...having said that, the traffic was very light indeed. We had progammed this site in for the Sunday but more on that later  and we were losing the light as it was getting on to evening time. Still, it was a very grand Memorial and the lighting seemed to just add to the setting.


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## Rocketeer (Nov 5, 2012)

As Gary says, Knettishall memorial is amazing, it sits on the old access road (which you can see in the pictures). Out came the B17 tailwheel....naturally!

The B17 tailwheel is dated 1943 and after use flying on B17s stateside, it was fitted to ground equipment. It is lovely to have brought it to the UK, where many of its 'brothers' cast from the same moulds took off from hallowed ground to end their lives in a field in occuppied Europe or Germany


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## Airframes (Nov 5, 2012)

More excellent stuff guys, thanks for posting. 
Have you thought of putting all this into booklet form, together with short descriptions, unit backgrounds, and probably airfiled plans? It's the sort of thing the Regional Council's heritage people could well be interested in. (No doubt you've seen the similar booklet from Newark Air Museum, as an example.) 
Just a thought ....


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Nov 5, 2012)

Excellent material again guys and great idea Terry! Thank you for the tour guys. Like I said earlier, this is great!


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## Rocketeer (Nov 6, 2012)

We would love to do that Terry and would welcome easy ways of doing it! I could do a Mac Book (likely) and then post a link so people could get a copy if they wished....


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## Wayne Little (Nov 6, 2012)

You guys have done a fine job so far...Thanks!


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## B-17 Buff (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm starting to feel like I've been to all these sites after all...  The memorial at Knettishall is beautifully done, one I have particularly wanted to visit as I have photos of it in many of my books. Great job guys.


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## Airframes (Nov 6, 2012)

Tony, put a brief example portfolio together, text and pics, and contact the PR Officer for the Regional Councils of Suffolk and Norfolk (might just be one, for East Anglia?), probably from the Tourism or Heritage departments. I'd suggest that you suggest that you provide the copy, in 'finished' format, and they take it on and print and publish, if they have an interest.
Some of these things I've seen in othe regions are laudible, but obviously written by a well-meaning individual with little knowledge of the subject.


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## Rocketeer (Nov 6, 2012)

Sunday started with us rising from our favourite Country pub/inn with a full english breakfast. Sunday we decided would be our 'day of rest' - we were tired from the previous two days, so thought an airshow and a couple of 8thAF bases would be sufficient!

We then set off to the 8th AF base that started the whole thing off! Bassingbourn was the home of the Memphis Belle. When I acquired my B17 tail wheel from Robert in Arizona, I told him that I would take it to one of the 'spiritual homes' of the B17. Bassingbourn started as an RAF base, then was used by the 8th AF before going back to the RAF and now is an Army base. There is a nice display in the tower and a super memorial. It was home to P51s for a while too. As it is an active base, entry is sporadic but open days are held in the warmer months. We started with the Memorial then moved to the tower. It was amazing standing at the very window where the top brass stared out of....anxiously awaiting the Belle's return.
As ever, Gary is the 'links' king so will fill in the history.


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## Gnomey (Nov 6, 2012)

Nice shots guys!


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## Rocketeer (Nov 6, 2012)

Just don't ask Gary what the phone call was about!! Not as bad as his 'lost property' story whilst Stearmanning!!!!


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## Airframes (Nov 7, 2012)

Good stuff again. I have a friend who was stationed at Bassingbourn for a year, ( in the Army)about four or five years back, and he didin't even know the tower museum existed !!


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## Geedee (Nov 7, 2012)

Bassingbourn, a name synonymous with the B-17, has an impressive memorial and also a tower museum. Please note that as Tony has already alluded to, it is on active military base and the opening times are strictly adhered to.

It was the home of both the 91st Bomb Group and also the 94th Bomb Group

Welcome to the 91st Bomb Group!
91st Bomb Group
RAF Bassingbourn airfield - 91st Bomb Group in WW2

94th Bomb Group
Plane Names Painted Noses - 94BG

The memorial is almost immediately on the left of the camp entrance and consists of a prop asembly from a Fort. It is quite an imposing memorial but is set back (just) from the road and holds both your attention and respect. The Tower museum itself has an entry fee and apart from a section based solely on the Memphis Belle has a good number of additional exhibits. The tower does not follow the normal 8th AAF Tower design but you can find further details on one of the links above.

The highlight of the tower for me , was the internal door on the entrance floor that has been signed by 'Vets and finally the sole brass plaque on the wall of the front of the Tower, honoring a crew man who 'came home'


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## Geedee (Nov 7, 2012)

And heres some shots from the inside of the Museum. Some very well known A/C names presented on that door !!


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## B-17 Buff (Nov 7, 2012)

Finally, a place I know very well that has particular importance to me - great shots as always.


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## T Bolt (Nov 7, 2012)

Very emotional reading that door. Brings all those old black and white nose art photos to life.


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Nov 7, 2012)

Thank you Gary and Tony.


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## Geedee (Nov 8, 2012)

> Finally, a place I know very well that has particular importance to me - great shots as always.



Cheers dude, you should think about doing a seperate thread perhaps  ?



> Very emotional reading that door. Brings all those old black and white nose art photos to life.



Thats it certainly does Glenn



> Thank you Gary and Tony



Aaron, no worries mate, it was a real blast and its great being able to share with you guys

After leaving the Tower, we made a fairly shortish trip to Duxford for the Autumn Air Display. We've decided that we'd only post a few pics of the 51's and 17' instead of filling the page with general air show shots. Duxford is probably no longer a stranger to you guys so wont post too much at this time .


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## Gnomey (Nov 8, 2012)

Great shots Gary!


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Nov 8, 2012)




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## Rocketeer (Nov 8, 2012)

Cannot add much to Gary's excellent pix.....maybe just a few....the ubiquitous wheel shot....! The American Air Museum is in the background. Duxford is a spiritual home of mine....it has it all......BoB, Stangs etc.


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Nov 8, 2012)

More excellent material and photos, keep'em coming!


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## Wayne Little (Nov 11, 2012)

Aaron Brooks Wolters said:


> More excellent material and photos, keep'em coming!



Agreed!


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## Geedee (Nov 11, 2012)

When we'd managed to drag ourselves away from Duxford, it was mad dash to Framlingham.

Framlingham was the home of two Bomber Groups, the 390th and the 95th and is about 3 miles SE of the town. 

There is a museum in the origional Watch Tower, but unfortunately, when we got there, it was getting late, it was absoulutely 'chucking it down' and the Museum was also closed, so there are no pics from inside. 

(This is not a problem as we will be making a return trip to catch up on this site...we also missed out on the following places by spending too long at duxford...
Bodney, home of the 352nd fighter group...Control tower and a few buildings remain, used by the Army, Memorial stone by Camp Entrance
Deopham Green, home of the 452nd Bomb Group...lots of runway and a Memorial by one of the taxi ways.)

Also at this Museum is a section on the British Resistance Organisation 1940 - 1944. 

The 390th Bomb Group Home Page
The 390th Bomb Group
The 390th Bomb Group History Page

The 95th Bomb Group Memorials Foundation
95th Bomb Group

We did drive by a large hangar on the run in to the tower and there appeared to be some taxiway still in use, but I'm afraid I didn't get any pics of these.


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## Airframes (Nov 11, 2012)

More good stuff - keep it coming guys.


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## Rocketeer (Nov 11, 2012)

Framlingham is not far from my parents and holds many memories for me. Just after it opened (as a museum), my Grandad took me there; We heard a piston engine, ran out side to see a Pilatus P2 beating up the airfield 'on the deck'. It was being flown by John Watts who was a superb display pilot. He was one of the power houses behind bringing a Catalina to the UK in the 1980s. Sadly he was killed in a Tornado collision. These are two of my aviation heroes, both long gone...but not in my memories and my heart for my Grandad.
As GD says, very wet....took a few photos.


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## Rocketeer (Nov 11, 2012)

Just down the road are the graves of two more aviation heroes....Ray and Mark Hanna. Again, I cannot pass the area without going and paying my respects and saying hello. Their graves have very fitting dedications


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## Crimea_River (Nov 11, 2012)

I have regretfully neglected following this thread but spent the last two hours reading back from page 1 on this Remembrance Day. Gary, Tony, you guys have done a fantastic job of chronicling this trip and making us feel part of it. Thanks so much.


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Nov 11, 2012)

Thank you Gary and Tony. More good material guys.


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## Rocketeer (Nov 11, 2012)

Its our pleasure to bring this tour to you all. It was fun to do....some was very sad....


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## fubar57 (Nov 12, 2012)

Fantastic tour Gary and Tony.

Geo


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## Geedee (Nov 12, 2012)

As Tony says, a great tour but a hint of sadness at the losses recorded.

And now onto the last day of the tour (Monday) and we jumped in the 'mail cart' and headed off in an 'over there' sort of direction to Leiston. Leiston was the home turf to the 357th Fighter Group (51's) and the 358th Fighter Group (47's) and a great memorial...errrr, two actually !... can be found on what is now a caravan site.

The 357th became know as the 'Yoxford Boys'. the story of how this happened is in one of the links  

As we arrived at the site, we had a chat with a guy working (who turned out to be the site owner and a great bloke indeed) and he told us about a seperate memorial building farther down on the site itself and he then volunteered to go down and open it up for to have a look. Top bloke !!.

At the site entrance you are met by two things...a large metal pilot and a large scale '51. The pilot character was a rather jovial looking guy who had a lot of thought put into his construction (we met his brother at a location later on in the day !). Why is he holding a cup ?...simples really, the caravn site is called the Cakes and Ale. A little farther down the main road is a second memorial and we also found some peri-track. 

The friends of Leiston Airfield, FOLA, UK airbase, 358th Fighter Group, 357th Fighter Group
357th Fighter Group
The 357th Fighter Group
8th Air Force Fighter Group - Littlefriends.co.uk 

358th Fighter Group
8th Air Force 358FG


We have quite a few pics form this site so there is more to come. I'm also hoping to take my '51 there next year for their Memorial day...would be neat as I am friends (On FB) with one of the guys who flew here and he sometimes makes it over the Pond to come and pay his respects. Would love to be able to get him in my '51 !


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## Airframes (Nov 12, 2012)

More good stuff guys. You really should think of putting all this together, along with maps, airfield plans and so on, into some sort of publication. Great work, and looking forward to more.


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## Gnomey (Nov 12, 2012)

Excellent shots guys!


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Nov 12, 2012)

Looking forward to more of the photos of this place! Excellent job you two!


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## Rocketeer (Nov 12, 2012)

Leiston was cool and another moving site. It is lovely how the owner of the site has kept its history alive. They have plans to expand the museum which is great. We went around the site to parts of old taxiway and runway. We found what we think was a fighter dispersal which was quite overgrown.

When my grandad was walking along the beach at Felixstowe in the mid 80s, he found a p51D canopy that had washed up from a wreck that was likely from a Leiston machine. I have the strengthener bar which had broken off.


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Nov 12, 2012)

More good stuff Tony! Thank you!


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## Rocketeer (Nov 12, 2012)

You're very welcome!


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## Crimea_River (Nov 12, 2012)

Thanks for this next installment guys.


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## Airframes (Nov 13, 2012)

Excellent. Looks like that second 'Maycrete' hut was in use until relatively recently.


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## Wayne Little (Nov 13, 2012)

Fantastic stuff Fellas...


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## B-17 Buff (Nov 13, 2012)

Geedee said:


> Cheers dude, you should think about doing a seperate thread perhaps  ?



Maybe I should (and a proper introduction!) 

This continues to be a fantastic and _entertaining_ 'virtual' tour with your commentary and anecdotes, truely fantastic effort. I had a girlfriend from Leiston once but never got to see the old airfield - I remember her telling me that her and her teenage friends used to drive around on the old runways in friends cars - before they had licences!


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## Geedee (Nov 13, 2012)

Thanks for your comments guys, very much apreciated and there is still more to come, including some astonishing facts at one of the sites we visited that almost defies belief !

Here's some more from Leiceston.

I did like the fact that the Museum building is firmly anchored to the ground at each corner !!, and I was pleasantly surprised to see a seperate section for my friend Joe about his exploits at the airfield.

And I could have spent at least a weekend poking around in the undergrowth at the old peri-track and fighter pan !


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Nov 13, 2012)

Is the P-51 still there or in your front yard Gary? Just kidding. More great material sir. I am going to be upset when this is over. Enjoying this immensely.


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## Geedee (Nov 14, 2012)

Aaron Brooks Wolters said:


> Is the P-51 still there or in your front yard Gary?



 Nope, still there dude, one in the family is enough....WAIT...Aaaargh, I can't believe I just said that ?!!!!!


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## Gnomey (Nov 14, 2012)

Good shots guys!


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## Rocketeer (Nov 20, 2012)

Next after Leiston was Metfield, home of the 491st BG....


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## Geedee (Nov 21, 2012)

Metfield as Tony has already mentioned was the home of the 491st Bomb Group. They flew the B-24 but as we were in the immediate vicinity, it seemed only right to drop by the Memorial and pay our respects.

Welcome
8th Air Force 491st BG
491st Bomb Group

I really liked the way the airfield runway layout was cut into the slabs in front of the Memorial itself. There was a surprising amount of peri-track still in use by the farming community and to drive onto it, upto an intersection and then get out of the car and look around at the wide open expanse and picture in your minds eye, the happenings of all those years ago....it gives you pause for thought.

I mentioned earlier that there was a surprise on its way at one of the sites we visited. Metfield has a surprise that in its history that some may find hard to grasp...

On July 15th 1944, a bomb detonated whilst being unloaded at the bomb dump...this caused a chain re-action and 1200 tons (yes, One Thousand Two Hundred tons !!!)...of explosives cooked off and rocked the countryside. Five B-24's were written off and five men lost their lives in the accident. I can only hope that they knew nothing about it when it all happened. I personaly find it hard to picture the scene as it would have unfolded, and I have a pretty vivid imagination !. How these kids left behind, went on about their daily business after this event almost defies description...they may have been kids, but in my eyes, they were Men !

Also at Metfield , the 353rd Fighter Group...

http://www.netherhall47.freeserve.co.uk/
http://www.8thafhs.org/fighter/353fg.htm
http://www.controltowers.co.uk/M/Metfield.htm


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## Airframes (Nov 21, 2012)

Excellent stuff yet again Gary and Tony.
I know exactly what you mean about the atmosphere and feelings when standing on the wide open, often windswept, areas of these old airfields. It's difficult to explain, unless experienced, and for our American friends, who perhaps have not had the chance to benefit (?!!) the experience of witnessing all four seasons in a day on aWW2 British airfield, where history was made, well, if you ever get the chance - do it!


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## Crimea_River (Nov 21, 2012)

Great stuff guys. Poignant pictures and words.


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## Rocketeer (Nov 26, 2012)

We then dashed off to Bungay, which was the home of B24s. Not much of the airfield remains. But there is the awesome Norfolk and Suffolk Aviation Museum. This is next to a lovely pub which is ideal for some nice food washed down by English ale!
I have added a pic of a B24 in Bungay colours that lives at Pima AM in Arizona. 
The Museum has a stunning collection of 8th AF relics and items which will firmly bring out the human side of the war.


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## Airframes (Nov 26, 2012)

Good stuff Gary, and another museum I must visit !


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## Crimea_River (Nov 26, 2012)

Nice ones Tony.


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## T Bolt (Nov 26, 2012)

Very nice guys


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## Airframes (Nov 26, 2012)

Oops! Sorry Tony - hadn't spotted these were your pics!


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## Gnomey (Nov 26, 2012)

Good shots Tony!


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Nov 26, 2012)

Excellent stuff guys! Thank you for taking the time to put this together for our viewing.


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## Geedee (Dec 4, 2012)

Abject apologies for late addition chaps....still having probs with the comp.

Anyway, Norfolk and Suffolk Aviation Museum. First time I've been there and if I have any advice to give, its quite simply...allow enough time. !. Each of the buildings contain soo much stuff, you can very easily get swamped trying to take it all in and miss loads !.

Couiple of highligghts for me were the Colditz C*ck replica glider and the amphibian that was scratch built and designed by Bill Goldfinch at my local airfield (Old Sarum...just on the ourtstkirts of Salisbury). Bill was one of the chaps who designed and built the Colditz Glider !. Unfortunately, Bill never got to see his amphibian working as he passed away two days before the sea trials were due to begin !.

The one area I kept going back to was the 'display' of engines and props that have been hauled up from the sea and surroundiung areas. I must say...and I stress here that this is my own personal view !..I absolutely hate seeing these relics left to rot outside. I do fully understand the problems with both conservation and storage and display but all the same, to me, they are probably more symbolic of the struggle and the end result that waited for countless thousands of aircrew on both sides, than perhaps seeing a panel. The '51 prop assembly that looks like a 4 legged spider was found washed up on a beach. Washed up !!!! you ever tried to lift a blade let alone a full compliment with spider...I tell ya, it aint light...and another thing, why do I never get to see and find these treasures 

ABOUT US


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## fubar57 (Dec 4, 2012)

Great pix again Gary and Tony. And Gary, five words...SCUBA.

Geo


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## Gnomey (Dec 4, 2012)

Good shots Gary!


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## Crimea_River (Dec 4, 2012)

Worth the wait Gary. Hope the comp is behaving.


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## Airframes (Dec 4, 2012)

Great stuff again Gary. Seeing the recovered props, and reading your comments, reminds me of the He111 that was in the shallows at Blakeney Creek, Norfolk (the one in the well-known BoB photos, swamped by waves and covered in bullet holes), from 1940 until the mid _1960s_. It was eventually deemed a navigation hazard - and blown up!!


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Dec 4, 2012)

Thank you Gary and Tony!


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## B-17 Buff (Dec 6, 2012)

Interesting stuff!


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## Rocketeer (Dec 7, 2012)

From Flixton, we went back to Felixstowe to drop off my Mum (my parents put us up for 2 nights of the tour). We then went to Raydon, a P51 and P47 base. This was one of the most awesome bases we went to, although no longer aviation, much of the airfield is still around and used for light industry. The runways can be made out easily. We went to the old gun butts and put the P51 tailwheel where it would have sat for tests.

I have only put a selection of photos, Gary will no doubt put up more on the history and the base photos. We found a workshop we would love to rent as a P51 workshop! There was also a piece of concrete that a US serviceman had signed back in 1944.


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## Airframes (Dec 7, 2012)

It still amazes me that there are so many airfields left, even if returned to agriculture, which still have taxi ways and runways. Those on major north-south routes, or east west- routes, have normally been dug up for hard core to build motorways.
It would be fantastic if you could rent that nissen hut - re-building Mustangs (or sections of) on a former Mustang base!


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## Gnomey (Dec 7, 2012)

Good shots Tony!


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## Geedee (Dec 8, 2012)

> It would be fantastic if you could rent that nissen hut - re-building Mustangs (or sections of) on a former Mustang base!



Too righty it would...I already have a name in mind for the operation 

Raydon...Wow !!. Heaps of original buildings, stacks of track...and its all being used. You could 'almost' smell the atmosphere and it didn't takle too much imagination to look past the modern vehicles and such like and picture a big...no huge...airfield crammed with fighters. We didn't get the time to go all over the airfield and I think that part of itst is still active, so theres deffo going to be return trip next year. 

Raydon was the home of 353rd fighter Group

Raydon Airfield Webpage
RAF Raydon airfield, 353rd Fighter Group, 357th Fighter Group, 358th Fighter Group
East Anglian Film Archive: Raydon Airfield, 1944
8th Air Force Fighter Group - Littlefriends.co.uk
353rd Fighter Group

I did chuckle at the little red warning sign I found saying the runway was under repair . 

It was also quite a powerful experience to stand in front of the firing butt (and also walk around it) so I've added a link here to a recent film showing a '51 letting rip with 6 X .50's that you may have seen, but still worth watching again  ... EAA Video Player - Your Source for Aviation Videos


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## Wayne Little (Dec 8, 2012)

You Guys are awesome, great pics fellas...


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## T Bolt (Dec 8, 2012)

Great pictures guys. Hard to believe all those building are still there.


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## Crimea_River (Dec 8, 2012)

Keeps getting better and better....


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## Wayne Little (Dec 9, 2012)

Crimea_River said:


> Keeps getting better and better....



 that it does!


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## Geedee (Dec 9, 2012)

Cheers guys 

Our final stop for the tour was at Boxted and we got there just as the light was beginning to fade...quite powerfull really as the trip wound down...so did the light ! . Boxted is about 4 miles north of Colchester and was home to quite a few units. We were aware of the 56th and the 354th fighter groups, but also this was home to the 386th Bombardment Group and Detachment B of the 65th fighter wing.

The 56th was also eventually known as Zemkes Wolfpack

The 354th was the first USAAF Fighter Group to get the P-51 B Mustang and was known as the 'Pioneer Mustang Group'

The memorial is on the remains of the old runway, southside of Park Lane, Langham.

56th Fighter Group in World War II
8th Air Force 56th FG

354thfightergroup
354th Fighter Group During World War II

Of note at the memorial was what at first glance appeared to be octagonal anti-landing blocks of some sort, however, getting the pics ready to post, Isee that there are runway light units at the base of the Memorial that look just like these block, so maybe they are old units placed upside down ?. Don't know but will have looksee and see what I can find out for you. I'll only add a few pics here, leaving Tony to finish off the rest


Well, would we do it again ?. Yes indeedy, and we will be either in '13 or more probably '14, and we'd like to hire a minibus and take a few of you around with us, that can make it.

We had 20 cheeky conversations that led to permission to explore further and take photo's, where normally, this wouldn't happen.
We had three museums opened up for us on non-opening days.
we met 100+ plus nice people and 1 odd dude with a Pheasant feather stuck behind his ear...he wasn't wearing a hat, just this bl**dy great big feather....kinda cool but deffo odd !  
We came back with 5 brick's, an old hinge of some sort, and half an old USAAF Anglepoise lamp
We had 15 impromtu 'pit-stops' to look at things
We took far too many pics 
We was knackered !
We was very happy

Its been a real hoot sharing some (Can't tell you all of the stuff ) of the highlights of the trip with you guys 'n' gals.

Roll on the next one of our 'Letsdropeverythingatthedropofahattourwithadaftnamethemeforitandwazzoffintothecountrysidewithcameras'


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## Crimea_River (Dec 9, 2012)

Good stuff Gary. I have no idea what those concrete things are.


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## Rocketeer (Dec 9, 2012)

Heavy!???


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## Airframes (Dec 9, 2012)

Great pics again guys, and I think those concrete things could be the bases for runway or taxi way lights.


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## Rocketeer (Dec 11, 2012)

Oh well,my wit fails again!

As Gary said, Boxted was the last stop of the tour. It was a bit of a sad moment putting the wheels to bed after the trip....

Quite fitting that Gary got to pose one last time with my wheels!!


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## Rocketeer (Dec 11, 2012)

As a sign off, I will leave you with a couple of pix from Debden (we went to yesterday) - it fell off this tour, but will likely make the next.

The 2012 tailwheel tour was born out of the Battle of Britain pilgrimage I organised a couple of years ago. Gary was keen to do a US 8th AF trip as was I....especially with the acquisition of the B17 tailwheel from Arizona. It was hard work to organise, plan etc but was great fun. I recommend you all try it one day. It wont be the last we do....there is at least a Bommber Command tour and a 'proper' Bo B tour up the sleeves as well as P38 and B24 bases....So that all folks!!! For the time being!

Seasons greetings! Rocketeer over and out


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## Airframes (Dec 11, 2012)

Great stuff Tony, and thanks for a fantastic tour - just the thing I've been wanting to do for years, since 'doing' some Bomber Command fields back in the early 1980s. BTW, is Debden still occupied by the Army? Last time I was there was in 1992 - had a quick pint in the village pub, opposite the camp.


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## Wayne Little (Dec 11, 2012)

Thanks Tony and Gary for a great tour, much appreciated!


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## Crimea_River (Dec 11, 2012)

Echo that. And Tony, your wit didn't fail!


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## Gnomey (Dec 13, 2012)

Good shots guys!


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## fubar57 (Dec 14, 2012)

Great tour gentlemen, waiting for the next one.

Geo


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## A4K (Dec 14, 2012)

Great pics Gary and Tony!

Are the concrete forms storm weights? Bomber bases were located in pretty windy spots.


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## B-17 Buff (Dec 18, 2012)

Outstanding, fantastic effort guys and throughly enjoyable - I almost feel I have been to these places myself now!


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## Geedee (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks again chaps, and if you can't make the next one, we'll deffo be doing another thread !


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## syscom3 (Dec 19, 2012)

This is the "thread of the year" as far as I am concerned.


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## Rocketeer (Dec 21, 2012)

Thanx one and all. It has been a pleasure. We already have a few thoughts about the next tour.
Happy holidays, Merry Christmas to one and all...Tony


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