# Cockpit locks?



## German Ace (Aug 31, 2009)

Did WWII aircraft have locks on the inside that you had to have a key or something?????????????????


Really good question.


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 31, 2009)

Don't think I have ever heard of them before. Hell I have a hard enough with car keys, looking for the keys to my fighter when it's time to scramble would be a tad embarrassing!


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## GrauGeist (Aug 31, 2009)

Most aircraft had a latch system that was accessable from both the inside, and outside.

I don't think that any WWII military aircraft had locks on them at the time of thier construction. At least I haven't seen any nor have I heard any reference to it.


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## Matt308 (Sep 1, 2009)

A lock? Like with a key? Nope.


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## timshatz (Sep 1, 2009)

Never seen a military "stock" aircraft with a lock. But most of my experience is with them in the pre-1980s vintage. Newer ones may have something like it. But the older ones didn't have locks.


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## davparlr (Sep 1, 2009)

timshatz said:


> Never seen a military "stock" aircraft with a lock. But most of my experience is with them in the pre-1980s vintage. Newer ones may have something like it. But the older ones didn't have locks.



no.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 1, 2009)

timshatz said:


> Never seen a military "stock" aircraft with a lock. But most of my experience is with them in the pre-1980s vintage. Newer ones may have something like it. But the older ones didn't have locks.



Depends on the aircraft. Many military Helicopters do. All Army UH-60 Blackhawks have keys/locks for the front cockpit and the cargo doors. They were a generic key though and one key fit all locks on all aircraft. I still have mine...

During WW2 however, I do not think any aircraft had keys or locks. As for the question about having them on the inside. Why would you want to lock it from the inside?


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## German Ace (Sep 1, 2009)

Well lets say your paranoid or somthing...


Really, what if you landed your plane and somebody hijacked it?


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## timshatz (Sep 1, 2009)

You can put a lock on a plane but, at least for ex-military birds, it is an after market accessory. I think I've seen them in that realm on a bird or two. 

But most guys don't bother. You figure most Warbirds are in a hanger (with a drip pan underneath, they are always dripping something) and the hangers are closed and locked. Beyond that, there is the problem (if you do want to steal one) of getting somebody who can actually fly it. Most warbirds aren't easy to get up and down. Especially the down part. Getting down definitely takes your attention. 

Lastly, there generally aren't enough out there to hide it once it is stolen. Somebody would notice. 

Now if you just wanted to lock it because of what is in it, probably not a lot of reason to do so. The instruments on most are basic. At least for the older ones. If anything, they're value is as antiques. The Radios have probably been replaced a time or two, there may be a transponder or GPS in there but that's about it. And all the stuff dropped in as replacements are generally stuff that isn't recent. 

If you wanted to steal an airplane, best to steal would be a recent (last 4 years) General Aviation bird that had lots of copies out there. Something like a Cirrus or a 172 Cessna. The avionics are recent (and there's been a revolution in avionics over the past 10 years, really amazing stuff), the engine and airframe are relatively new and they are nicer birds. And you can hide them in plain site. Change the N number and you might get away with it. 

Then again, you might not.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 1, 2009)

German Ace said:


> Well lets say your paranoid or somthing...
> 
> 
> Really, what if you landed your plane and somebody hijacked it?



But why would you lock it from the inside?


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## German Ace (Sep 1, 2009)

Like a lock like in a car.

For saftey reasons.

I am just saying that if I had a aircraft I woud put a lock in it.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 1, 2009)

German Ace said:


> Like a lock like in a car.
> 
> For saftey reasons.
> 
> I am just saying that if I had a aircraft I woud put a lock in it.


The canopy didn't just flop down like the lid on a commode, it had latching systems that held the canopy in place. Find some color photos of various interiors, and you'll see the (sometimes oversized) latch handles usually painted in bright colors (red, yellow, etc). If you look on the exterior of the cockpit, there's also a ground crew access nearby so they can open the canopy in an emergency.

A "lock" wouldn't make much sense, since you're up in the air and not very likely to get car-jacked and in the event you get hammered by an enemy, you want to be able to get out as fast as possible.

Also consider the possability that you've been badly wounded and have a hard landing on your return...how would they get you out of the damaged machine?


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## German Ace (Sep 1, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> How would they get you out of the damaged machine?



Fancy German technology were you just push a button...


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## timshatz (Sep 1, 2009)

German Ace said:


> Fancy German technology were you just push a button...



Short story on brilliant "push button" technology. 

Friend of mine has a 2007 Corvette. Doors are push botton. All electric. Last weekend, I was over his house and his two kids are inside monkeying around with the car (6 9 years old). One of them, hits the lock button. Car does it's bit and locks. But, here's the odd part, you can't unlock it without the key fob (which was back up at the house, a good 100yards away). So here we are, he and I, looking at his kids who are stuck in the car (trying to open the door didn't work) and sans key fob to open the car. They couldn't get out. Kind of comical actually. 

He had another one of his kids run the fob down and we unlocked it. But imagine if you are in an airplane that is hit or some such, the doors look due to a short circuit and won't unlock (or something similar)? Very bad news, especially when doors (canopies) often jam shut in aircraft when they crash land.That's why some airplanes come with hammers to smash out the windows (at least the Cirrus SR models do).


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## gumbyk (Sep 1, 2009)

He he Tim,
Just as well they weren't playing around with the lights and run the battery flat, then there would have really been problems.



> Fancy German technology were you just push a button...


G.A. picture this...
You've just managed to limp home with a damaged aircraft, and the undercarriage collapses. How do YOUR ground crew rescue you if the canopy is locked? The "fancy German technology where you just push a button" on the outside (so the ground crew can operate it) kind of defeats the purpose of having a lock.


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## German Ace (Sep 1, 2009)

I originaly thought of this when I was flying through a thunderstorm in IL2 and I remembered this scary movie about a creature that was ont he wing, and what if the pilot got scared or something or something...

You know, I was jsut wondering...


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## German Ace (Sep 1, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> But why would you lock it from the inside?



So nothing gets inside...


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## drgondog (Sep 1, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Depends on the aircraft. Many military Helicopters do. All Army UH-60 Blackhawks have keys/locks for the front cockpit and the cargo doors. They were a generic key though and one key fit all locks on all aircraft. I still have mine...
> 
> During WW2 however, I do not think any aircraft had keys or locks. As for the question about having them on the inside. Why would you want to lock it from the inside?



Chris - that is interesting. I know we didn't design them into Huey's and Cobra's back in the day.

Nor have I seen any factory standard warbird with an ignition key...

A lot easier to steal an airplane than an auto back then.


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## gumbyk (Sep 1, 2009)

German Ace said:


> I originaly thought of this when I was flying through a thunderstorm in IL2 and I remembered this scary movie about a creature that was ont he wing, and what if the pilot got scared or something or something...
> 
> You know, I was jsut wondering...





> So nothing gets inside...



G.A. I think the pilots had bigger, and more real threats to worry about than imaginary gremlins on the wing.

The only locks on any form of warbird that I have seen is the OH-58 the sometimes comes in here for maintenance. It has a couple of brackets that line up that look like you can put a padlock through them. Looks like an aftermarket thing, as I cannot imagine Bell would have designed something like that.


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## Graeme (Sep 1, 2009)

German Ace said:


> So nothing gets inside...



And lock out nosy onlookers!


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## BikerBabe (Sep 1, 2009)

Hmmmm...I'm thinking modern-day car locks here...push the button on the key, the plane blinks and goes "bleep-bleep", and it's locked before you head off to the supermark...ah, no - go away images!


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## gumbyk (Sep 1, 2009)

BikerBabe said:


> Hmmmm...I'm thinking modern-day car locks here...push the button on the key, the plane blinks and goes "bleep-bleep", and it's locked before you head off to the supermark...ah, no - go away images!



And come back to find the thing up on blocks because somebody stole your wheels...


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 1, 2009)

We've put locks on L-29s and 39s. They have a latching mechanism on the left side of the aircraft that locks the canopy for pressurization purposes. With a little modification a padlock could be placed within the handle.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 1, 2009)

Graeme said:


> And lock out nosy onlookers!


LOL...good one!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 2, 2009)

drgondog said:


> Chris - that is interesting. I know we didn't design them into Huey's and Cobra's back in the day.
> 
> Nor have I seen any factory standard warbird with an ignition key...
> 
> A lot easier to steal an airplane than an auto back then.



The Blackhawk has an ignition key as well. These are not generic, and each aircraft has its own. Once the aircraft is started though, you can take the ignition key out and the engines will keep turning.



German Ace said:


> So nothing gets inside...



If you lock it from the *inside* then how are you going to get out????


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## German Ace (Sep 2, 2009)

I'm not talking about a padlock, I'm talking about a lock like the one in cars.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 2, 2009)

German Ace said:


> I'm not talking about a padlock, I'm talking about a lock like the one in cars.



I know what you mean. I am joking with you, but you are still missing the point. Why would you want to lock yourself in? To lock the aircraft when you walk away from it, I undestand, but to lock yourself in....

Anyhow, as others have pointed out they did not have locks. Some aircraft have them, but most are not built with them.


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## German Ace (Sep 2, 2009)

The lock would be on the inside.


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 2, 2009)

It certainly would make bailing out a lttle more interesting.

I like the padlock idea on the outside, a Mr Bean airplane


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 3, 2009)

German Ace said:


> The lock would be on the inside.



Why would you want a lock on the inside? Why would you want to lock yourself inside? You seem to be missing the point that I am making.


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