# The Slowest Plane of WW2?



## Pisis (Apr 21, 2006)

According to my brain database, it was the Rescue Boat Consolidated PBY Catalina. 
Depending on engine equipement, its maximum speed was 314km/h at 2290m, 329km/h at 3000m and the cruise speed was 208km/h at 3050m.
But what was the slowest fighter and the slowest bobmer in World War II?

Sources:
www.military.cz/usa/air/war/other/pby/pby_en.htm
http://uboat.net/allies/aircraft/catalina.htm


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## plan_D (Apr 21, 2006)

They'd have been slower planes than the Catalina, if we're talking maximum speed. But generally all planes go around the same speed at 0 MPH when they're sat on the ground not doing anything.


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## lesofprimus (Apr 21, 2006)

I would think the Storch was slower than the PBY.....


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## Pisis (Apr 21, 2006)

Maybe, but planes like Storch, Piper "Primus" Cub, etc. were currier planes anyway. I mean combat planes...


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## plan_D (Apr 21, 2006)

Well, you said 'slowest plane' , indicating any plane of World War II. You actually mean planes that carried weapons and were used in active, engaging the enemy, combat ?


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## KraziKanuK (Apr 21, 2006)

The question was: But what was the *slowest fighter* and the *slowest bobmer* in World War II?

I see no 'edit' for the post.


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## plan_D (Apr 21, 2006)

The title was "The Slowest Plane of WW2?" which is a question in itself. And then he went on to state that the PBY was the slowest, which was an answer to his own question that we're disputing.


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## Pisis (Apr 21, 2006)

Oh my god, planD... 
Can't you read? 
"...But what was the slowest fighter and the slowest bomber in World War II?" 
BTW, PBY was also a combat plane, sinking 37 U-boats during the WWII...


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## plan_D (Apr 21, 2006)

When you title something with a question, it's a question. Or don't either of you understand simple English? And question mark indicates a question, funnily enough. You made a question in the title and answered it with the PBY, and both Dan and I disputed the title question/answer. Or are both of you too stupid to understand simple conversation? 

And where did I dispute that the PBY was not a combat aircraft? What land or planet do you live in because it's becoming increasingly more difficult to believe that you live in the same one as the rest of us. Stop smoking that shit Pisis, and step back to reality.


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## Wurger (Apr 21, 2006)

I think that PZL P-7a could be as the slowest fighter.
Its max. speed at 0m altitude - 276 km/h, at 4000m - 327km/h, at 6000m - 309 km/h.The cruise speed - 285 km/h
The slowest bomber name could go to PZL P-23A/B Karas.Its max. speed at 0m - 263/274 km/h, at 3000m - 304/319 km/h.The cruise speed - 230/270 km/h.
But I could be wrong.


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## Jabberwocky (Apr 21, 2006)

My vote for the slowest bomber would be the Po-2/U-2

Originally built as a transport/utility, it was used by the Russians in vast numbers as a light night harrasment bomber, it was usually fitted with a pair of 120kg bombs or (occasionally) 4 RS-82 rockets.

Flown by the famous 'night witches', female combat pilots in VVS service, the Russians had a serise of nicknames for it, including 'lawnmover', 'grasscutter' and 'sewing machine'.

The Po-2 was powered by a 5 cylinder radial that produced barely more than 100 hp. Night bombing runs would often be made with the engine switched off, gliding in towards the target area, and then releasing the bombs onto the unsuspecting enemy position. 

And the maximum speed? Just 155 kph/98mph!

Reportedly, when a Po-2 was spotted they were quite difficult to shoot down. The planes were so slow and nimble that they drove German pilots in the faster and far more powerful 190s and 109s into fits just trying to engage a target doing less than 1/3 their velocity.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 21, 2006)

The Storch, hands down!!!!


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## evangilder (Apr 21, 2006)

Agreed, Joe. And the Storch wasn't just a courier airplane.


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## KraziKanuK (Apr 21, 2006)

The one that has an English comprehesion problem is you pD for Pisis went on in the text of his post and further qualified what his was asking for in his thread title.

Yes the Po-2 was slow but so was the _'Stringbags'_.


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## Twitch (Apr 21, 2006)

Pisis is saying FIGHTER and BOMBER and the PO-2 and Storch were neither.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 21, 2006)

Ah ok I MISSED THAT...


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## syscom3 (Apr 21, 2006)

The TBD Devestator carrying its torpedo was very slow. Probably couldnt even make more than 120 knots.

Once it dropped its load, it could speed up just a little.


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## hartmann (Apr 21, 2006)

May can be the "Swordfish" with torpedo?.
I´m only guesing.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 21, 2006)

this topic's been discussed before......


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## syscom3 (Apr 21, 2006)

We can discuss this again.


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## lesofprimus (Apr 21, 2006)

krazikanuck said:


> The one that has an English comprehesion problem is you pD for Pisis went on in the text of his post and further qualified what his was asking for in his thread title.


 Are u questioning MY grasp of the English language as well fucknut??? If u notice, the first statement he made, after his question in the topic, was


Pisis said:


> According to my brain database, it was the Rescue Boat Consolidated PBY Catalina.


 I was challenging THIS claim, not answering the follow on questions, as was pD....


krazikanuck said:


> The question was: But what was the slowest fighter and the slowest bobmer in World War II?


The question was The Slowest Plane of WW2?, not the follow-on questions.... 


twitch said:


> Pisis is saying FIGHTER and BOMBER and the PO-2 and Storch were neither.


Pisis said slowest *PLANE* in the original topic name, as well as his opening statement, which is what planD, FBJ and I decided to contest...

And for the record, the Storch did alot more than courier flights, as evan so polietly put....


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## KraziKanuK (Apr 21, 2006)

Time to send another PM off to Horse about your agressive conduct and abussive language.



> as well fucknut???



Oh my, aren't you the sweet one lesof?? ?  Did I mention your name? With the resulting berserker ranting would say that qualifies as lack of grasp of the English language.  You do have your emotional instability problems, don't you? Time to visit a VA hospital and get some professional help, that is if you really are a vet.

Get off your high and mighty pedistal. If you didn't notice, Pisis is not a native English speaker, make allowances. 

......................................

In service, the Storch was used in a wide variety of roles – serving as a reconnaissance platform, a liaison aircraft, for artillery spotting, and as an air ambulance.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 22, 2006)

well you've got balls i'll give you that.......

as for the slowest i severly doubt the Catalina was the slowest aircraft of WWII, combat or not, there were much slower.........


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## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 22, 2006)

the Po-2 was sort of a bomber, it was a night "nuisance" bomber
my vote goes with the Po-2 as the slowest bomber


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## Gnomey (Apr 22, 2006)

The Tiger Moth was pretty slow as well.....


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## lesofprimus (Apr 22, 2006)

> Time to visit a VA hospital and get some professional help, that is if you really are a vet.


Hey assshole, I warned u about ur bullshit attitude around here last time... I told u to mind ur fucking business and stick to posting....

U ignored it....

So u get an official warning, and some advice, again.... MIND UR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS..........


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## lesofprimus (Apr 22, 2006)

And if u decide to insult my service to my country one more fucking time, I'll ban ur ass so fast that a hummingbird wont see it......


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## lesofprimus (Apr 22, 2006)

And another thing asshole, Im not getting on Pisis, Im getting on ur Meatball ass.... I have a strong feeling we're seeing the last of ur ass.....


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## SM79Sparviero (Apr 22, 2006)

Polikarpov Po2 was not born as a bomber at all, it was fitted for this role for emergency motivations exactly as Tiger Moth would have been proposed by someone as emergency light bomber in 1939.......this doesn't mean that Po-2 was not an awfully effective aircraft in its role of night intruder....A "Checkbed Charlie" during Korean war destroyed 1 F-86, irreparably damaged one more ande severely damaged 5 ones more.It made in one night the work that Mig15s could not do in one month, and it could come back home without any damage!

The slowest bomber in WW2 was Caproni Ca133 ( maximum speed 231 Km/h), one of them was on the battleline still in 1942 in the extreme defence of Cheren, East Africa,side-to-side with the last two Fiat CR-42 versus South African air Force. 

Close to the old "Caprona" ( ="big goat") was Caproni Ca-309 , a light reconeissance-light bomber built in 1936 for "aerocooperation" with colonial troops in African background, it could be approximately compared to a twin engined Westland Lysander, but it had to bear a heavy engagement as assault aircraft versus Allied LRDG trucks and armored cars, it was employed as daylight bomber in the defence of Giarabub and Kufra oasis.
Its maximum speed was no more than 250 Km/h, but two air cooled Alfa-Romeo 115 6 Cyl in-line engines each with 195 HP!

It was much more up-tp-date and successful than its successors, the mediocre Ca 310-311-312-313-314 series.

Another wasted chance: Italy had already good pilots trained for night instinctive flight on CR42CN without a radar,they could have an effective night intruder with the same performances as Po-2 armed with 3 7.7 mm machine guns( sometimes one 20 mm breda) and 330 Kg of bombs for cheap strikes to Malta and other targets

Pictures from the site GMS, Gruppo Modellistico Sesto S. Giovanni: Ca 309 profile, and experimental Breda 20 mm machine gun in the bow ( it frankly seems a 13.2 mm Breda from Regia Marina more than a 20 mm.....)


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## SM79Sparviero (Apr 22, 2006)

"errata corrige": Sorry, Caproni 133 and Fiat Cr42 were defending Gondar not Cheren.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 22, 2006)

you think that's the slowest? well if we're disscounting the real lightweights such as the storch which in all honesty wins this hands down, the swordfish was slower than them two, (after having to use a converter, i hate metric units) the slowest of those two reached roughly 144mph, the swordfish was lucky to hit 138mph.........


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## Pisis (Apr 22, 2006)

ok, i agree that i put the question title wrong... Here is a new one: 
*What was the slowest fighter, transport, bomber and courier Aircraft of WW2?*


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## evangilder (Apr 22, 2006)

KraziKanuK said:


> Time to send another PM off to Horse about your agressive conduct and abussive language.



I have to say that sounds about as lame as "I'm gonna tell my dad". I am not going to quote the rest of your rant as it does not bear repeating. Les has already addressed my exception, so I will only warn you that you are being watched carefully here, and you are skating on thin ice.


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## Twitch (Apr 22, 2006)

Well Pisis, the old P-26 did 234 MPH and was a front line FIGHTER in the Phillipines till 1940.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 22, 2006)

can i nominate the Swordfish for slowest bomber then? and slowest "courier" has to go to the storch.....


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## evangilder (Apr 22, 2006)

Twitch said:


> Well Pisis, the old P-26 did 234 MPH and was a front line FIGHTER in the Phillipines till 1940.



I was thinking the P-26 also, Twitch. I don't know if there is anything slower. If there was, I pity the poor bastard who had to fly it!


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## syscom3 (Apr 22, 2006)

The TBD Devestator had a top speed of 208 MPH at 8000 ft. and a cruising speed of 128 MPH.

If it was going to carry the standard 1200 lbs. torpedo, then its speed on its drop altitude was going to be very slow.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 22, 2006)

well as it's a bomber it's faster than the swordfish........


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## Glider (Apr 22, 2006)

Gloster Gaultlets were used in the early days of the desert war and I don't think they topped 230.
For bombers the British in Singapore attacked the Japenese Fleet in Vickers Vincents top speed clean of around 135mph. 
For communications aircraft I would go for the Auster.


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## syscom3 (Apr 22, 2006)

Heres a real slow one. It saw action off of Malaya and Sumatra in Dec 1941 and early 1942.

Top speed of 143MPH

http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html pages/VICKERS VILDEBEEST.htm


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## Glider (Apr 22, 2006)

Were thinking along similar lines. A vincent is a version of a Vilderbeest


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## Bullockracing (Apr 22, 2006)

Not necessarily your exact thread, but the Fieseler Fi 167 was actually the slowest aircraft of WWII. It's top speed was 198, but it had no stall speed. The plane would actually just sink instead of stalling. 

Source is William Green's Warplanes of the Third Reich...


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## Pisis (Apr 23, 2006)

> Top speed of 143MPH


Ufff....


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## trackend (Apr 23, 2006)

Morning guys 
I think the Storch is about the slowest plane I can think of as for combat aircraft the old Stringbag was no ball of fire at 139mph at 4750ft and132mph at sea level. Plus with a take off distance fully loaded into a 40knot wind of 62 yards and much less when not loaded the Swordfish must have been amoung the (shall we say) less rapid combat aircraft of WW2.
It did make it a bit dodgy when the wind picked up over the flight deck and it was not unheard of one almost doing a Harrier lift off or landing when not carrying a tin fish.


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## Jabberwocky (Apr 23, 2006)

Still the Po-2 

Top speed of just 95mph, and used frequently as a nusiance bomber.


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## Pisis (Apr 23, 2006)

Yeah, and it was quite feared plane, this _Kukruznik_...


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## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 23, 2006)

Twitch said:


> Well Pisis, the old P-26 did 234 MPH and was a front line FIGHTER in the Phillipines till 1940.


nope, the PAAC used it till 1941, against Zeroes and Betties
It made heroes for those who actually got kills


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## Twitch (Apr 24, 2006)

The Storch at 109 MPH was a speed demon compared to the Piper L-4 Grasshopper with a top speed of just 85 MPH.


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## Pisis (Apr 24, 2006)

Well, I had this Primus in mind, too.



Twitch said:


> Gr***hopper


ROFL


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 24, 2006)

There's a guy named Steve Ericson who has a Storch at Mojave Airport - I seen him have a slow "race" against a J4 Cub, the J4 looked like it hung on about 35 MPH - the Storch just about hovered........


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## R988 (Apr 25, 2006)

Twitch said:


> The Storch at 109 MPH was a speed demon compared to the Piper L-4 Grasshopper with a top speed of just 85 MPH.



Still according to the wikipedia entry for the Storch, there is this interesting and amusing piece of trivia.



> A Storch was the victim of the last dog fight on the Western Front and another was fittingly downed by a direct Allied counterpart of the Storch-a Piper L-4 Grasshopper-from the L-4's crew directing their pistol fire at it. The involved Storch was the only aircraft known to have been downed by handgun fire in the entire war.



by the way the TB3's top speed was apparently just 196 Km/h / 122 MpH

Slowest of the four engined bombers for sure


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## Twitch (Apr 25, 2006)

The stall speed on the Storch is allegedly 25 MPH while the L-4 is 35-38 MPH.


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## helmitsmit (Apr 26, 2006)

Wasn't there a plane for the U.S.A.F called the flying pancake did about 30mph at stall and had a top speed of 460mph. It got to the prototype stage but never made production.

Is that a candidate?


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## GregP (Apr 26, 2006)

The slowest fighter I have in my database is teh French Caurdon C-720 at 292 kph.

The slowest bomber of any sort I have is the Japanese Mitsubishi Ki-20 at 160 kph.

Admittedly, these are the extreme ... and probably not proud of it, either!


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## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 27, 2006)

The Po-2 is a bomber, with a top tpeed of 96mph


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## kool kitty89 (Nov 4, 2007)

I know some of this was said before but here's an overview of the Po-2

The Po-2 was a general purpose utillity biplane (often a crop-duster) that was used as a trainer ("red-flyer) and was also used for transport, and as a military liaison aircraft, due to its STOL capabilities. Later it was also used in the ground-attack role. It had the advantages of cheapness, simplicity and reliabillity, and availabillity. Its also the second most produced aircraft in history with over 40,000 built. It also only had 125 hp for 2,300 lbs loaded or 3,000 lbs max (less tthan .06 hp/lb); considdering that, it did pretty well. The slowness and low stall speed was one of its bigges advantages.

Also: "Although entirely outclassed by contemporary aircraft, the Kukuruznik served extensively on the Eastern Front in World War II, primarily as a liaison, medevac and general supply aircraft. It was especially useful for supplying Soviet partisans behind front line. Its low cost and easy maintenance led to a production run of over 40,000. Manufacturing of the Po-2 in the USSR ceased in 1949, but until 1959 a number were assembled in Aeroflot repair workshops.... After first trials of arming the machine with bombs in 1941, from 1942 it was adapted as a light night ground attack plane.... The material effects of these missions was mostly insignificant, but the psychological effect on German troops was much more noticeable. They typically attacked by complete surprise in the dead of night, denying German troops sleep and keeping them constantly on their guard, contributing yet further to the already exceptionally high stress of combat on the Eastern front. Their usual tactics involved flying only a few meters above the ground, rising for the final approach, cutting off the engine and making a gliding bombing run, leaving the targeted troops with only the eerie whistling of the wind in the wings' bracing-wires as an indication of the impending attack. Luftwaffe fighters found it extremely hard to shoot down the Kukuruznik, because the stall speed of both the Messerschmitt Bf 109 and the Focke-Wulf Fw 190 exceeded the Soviet craft's maximum speed. The U-2 became famous especially as the plane used by the 588th Night Bomber Regiment, composed of all-women pilots and ground crew. The unit became notorious for its daring low-altitude night raids on German rear-area positions, veteran pilots Katya Ryabova and Nadya Popova on one occasion flying 18 such missions in a single night. It is also likely that further demoralization to the enemy occurred due to the pilots being female, and causing significant but mostly intangible losses. As such, they earned the nickname Night Witches (German Nachthexen, Russian Ночные Ведьмы). "

Polikarpov Po-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So it was sort of a bomber (it bombed things) but more of a ground attack, but certainly a combat plane. (though not designed as such)


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 4, 2007)

The Storch still flew slower than the Po-2


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 4, 2007)

The Storch could litterally "hover" in a strong head wind. She must have been a real joy to fly!


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## Graeme (Nov 4, 2007)

For sustained slow speed I'd go for the GAL 38 or AS 39. The GAL 38 supposedly could maintain 39mph. Described by one author as an 'early stealth aircraft'. Slow and quiet but not invisible!


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 4, 2007)

John Sparp's (Nemisis) former crew chief (his name excapes me right now) had one - I used to see him fly it all the time. I think Eric might have some pics.


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## kool kitty89 (Nov 4, 2007)

By "the storch was slower" do you mean top-speed or stall speed? Because the Storch was about 14 mph faster at top-speed. If you get into stall speeds there are several planes that have virtually none as stated above: Swordfish (no torpedo), Fi 167, Fi 156 "Storch"


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## Juha (Nov 5, 2007)

Hello
I must put forward Blackburn Ripon, used by Finns during WWII
as bomber etc max speed 125mph at SL and 136mph at 6500ft as new and they were not new when WWII started.


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## kool kitty89 (Nov 5, 2007)

Wikipedia lists the Ripon IIC as 111 mph top speed, which is still faster than the Po-2 or storch, thoughcertainly slower than the Stringbag. So maby the slowest torpedo bomber. It might have been the slowest when carrying a torpedo, I doubt it did more than 100 mph fully loaded and if slower than 95 mph, we have a winner! 

Though I don't know the stats for Finland's Ripon IIF.


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## Juha (Nov 6, 2007)

My Ripon specs were from Weal Weal, because it was the nearest book when I typed the message. If I have time tonight I will check the Finnish AF specs.

Juha


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## lastwarrior (Nov 6, 2007)

The German Stuka dive bomber is also one of the slowest bombers during World War II.


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## Juha (Nov 6, 2007)

FAF Ripon IIF Series III with 610hp Bristol Pegasus II as a float plane had max speed of 137 mph. Other source gives FAF Ripon IIF max speed as 112 mph as a landplane. Probably the latter was Series II plane with 525 hp Armstrong Siddeley Panther IIA. Both types were in use as combat planes during the war.


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## kool kitty89 (Nov 6, 2007)

There were a few (less than 10) Finnish Ripons powered by the 480 hp Gnome-Rhône Jupiter engine, so I suspect they'd be the slowest.


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## Juha (Nov 6, 2007)

Hello Kool Kitty
they were Series I a/c, many if not most of those got Pegasus engine around 1934. I'm not sure but maybe a couple still had Jupiter in 1939 and if so they probably were slowest of the lot.


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