# Raptor vs Eurofighter



## Instal (Oct 21, 2007)

I have a friend in the USAF that tells me that that the raptor would eat a Eurofighter for lunch. While I think that MAY be true he went on to say that the Eurofighter is no match for a F15!!!! Is it true that a 30 some year old aircraft is a better plane than the Eurofighter?


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## Soren (Oct 21, 2007)

The Eurofighter will eat up a F-15 EASILY! 

The Eurofighter Raptor are equal in everything if you ask me, except the Raptor is supposed to have a smaller radar profile.


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## Konigstiger205 (Oct 21, 2007)

Well I looked recently on wikipedia and compared them...the Raptor is much faster and personally I also like how it looks but the Eurofighter has its strengths.


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## The Basket (Oct 21, 2007)

Eurofighter has the goods on the Eagle. The Raptor is the top notch but then it costs more...so should be. 

Thrust vectoring and stealth for the win.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 21, 2007)

A Eurofighter should have the win over an F-15 because it is newer technology and a next generation fighter.

The F-22 however owns all in my opinion. As Basket pointed out Stealth and Thrust Vectoring give it an advantage over the Eurofighter.


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## Glider (Oct 21, 2007)

Have to agree that the Raptor is the best but a Typhoon should certainly beat the F15.
If not we have wasted a HUGE amount of money and time


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## Matt308 (Oct 21, 2007)

"certainly"


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## david johnson (Oct 21, 2007)

has the euro fighter been produced yet?

dj


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## Instal (Oct 21, 2007)

His reasoning is that the F15 has updated avionics that are better (newer)than the Eurofighter


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 21, 2007)

david johnson said:


> has the euro fighter been produced yet?
> 
> dj




Yes the Germans and the British have there first squadrons allready fielded.

Infact British Typhoons intercepted one of the Russian Bombers last month.


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## Bellum (Oct 21, 2007)

...and Spanish and Italians too!!!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 21, 2007)

Sorry I did not know whether the Italians or Spanish had fielded there first squadrons yet.


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## david johnson (Oct 21, 2007)

whom do they plan to fight, i wonder? i think there will always be somebody who sooner or later wants to take a crack at the usa, but whose ticked at the eurounion right now?

dj


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 21, 2007)

I think the only threat that is viable to the EU at the moment is Iran and only because they too see the problem with Iran getting nuclear weapons.

Russia however could become another threat to the West and Europe will become the front for that if it happens again.


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## Glider (Oct 21, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> "certainly"



I left myself way open for that one


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## Konigstiger205 (Oct 22, 2007)

Well since the russians started flying their bombers again I think is fair for us europeans to greet them with new technology


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## Matt308 (Oct 25, 2007)

Glider said:


> I left myself way open for that one



Oui.

Looks like the Japanese are playing a poliitcal game. They announced that they will buy Typhoons if they can't get F-22s. Now that should be interesting. That would topple the US monopoly for the JSDF.

Also, remember the F-15 has the largest physical size radome able to accomodate the largest aperature AESA. With a modernized weapon system, F-15Cs and F-15Es are being equipped with Raytheon AESAs now that would provide a VERY formidable adversary for even the most modern of fighters. Don't understimate an aircraft based solely upon the antiquity of the airframe. That is not where the technological advantages have been occurring in the last 10-15 years. The airframe and propulsion wars of the 70s-80s are gone.


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## mkloby (Oct 26, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Oui.
> 
> Looks like the Japanese are playing a poliitcal game. They announced that they will buy Typhoons if they can't get F-22s. Now that should be interesting. That would topple the US monopoly for the JSDF.
> 
> Also, remember the F-15 has the largest physical size radome able to accomodate the largest aperature AESA. With a modernized weapon system, F-15Cs and F-15Es are being equipped with Raytheon AESAs now that would provide a VERY formidable adversary for even the most modern of fighters. Don't understimate an aircraft based solely upon the antiquity of the airframe. That is not where the technological advantages have been occurring in the last 10-15 years. The airframe and propulsion wars of the 70s-80s are gone.



Many don't understand that Matt


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## Matt308 (Oct 28, 2007)

Yeah.


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## plan_D (Oct 28, 2007)

The F-15E is not getting an AESA system, it's only the C model to be equipped with the AN/APG-63. I have to put out that the Typhoon is to be equipped with AMSAR which is a AESA; and will be ready by 2010. 

I know that F-16 and F-18 models are also getting AESA; while the F-22 has the most up to date AN/APG-77 (I think) with a 120 degree field of vision and no moving parts. 

The F-35 is going to use a newer version but I can't remember it's designation and I can't be bothered to google it.


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## Matt308 (Oct 28, 2007)

DoD has issued a RFP for AESA in the F-15E.


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## plan_D (Oct 29, 2007)

Will it be getting the AN/APG-63 like the C model, or a different version?


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## Matt308 (Oct 29, 2007)

Don't know. It is an RFP at this juncture.

With multiple models (-63, -77, -79, -80, -81) to choose from it will depend on the mission, capability, integration and cost.


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## comiso90 (Oct 29, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Oui.
> 
> Looks like the Japanese are playing a poliitcal game. They announced that they will buy Typhoons if they can't get F-22s. Now that should be interesting. That would topple the US monopoly for the JSDF.
> 
> .



We'll if things get hot with North Korea or China... There is a chance that our Japanese friends will get involved. I'd rather see them flying F-22s

.


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## Matt308 (Oct 29, 2007)

Me too. However, we could just negotiate F-35s. I would think that would be adequate.


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## comiso90 (Oct 29, 2007)

Adequate for taking on the Chinese J-10.. but the MiG35 and SU-35.... I think that will be a challenge.

Is Russia exporting latest generation stuff to China?

..


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## Matt308 (Oct 29, 2007)

I don't think so. Latest gen stuff that they sell to everybody else. But certainly not their latest. China is too much of a potential threat and with her growing economy it must be making Russia more than a little nervous.

There is a lot of oil untapped just north of China.


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## Glider (Oct 30, 2007)

Go on, let them buy the Typhoon.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 30, 2007)

The Typhoon would be albe to handle any Chinese or N. Korean threat anyhow.


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## Matt308 (Oct 30, 2007)

Yep.


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## SoD Stitch (Oct 30, 2007)

plan_D said:


> Will it be getting the AN/APG-63 like the C model, or a different version?



According to souces, they will be getting the AN/APG-63(V)3; it is the most advanced version of the AN/APG-63. They have discontinued manufacture of the AN/APG-70. Quoted from Wikipedia:

"The APG-63(V)3 radar is a more modern variant of the APG-63(V)2, applying the same AESA technology utilized in Raytheon's APG-79. The (V)3 is designed for retrofit into F-15C and F-15E aircraft, and is also planned for use in Singapore's new F-15SG aircraft. Raytheon delivered the first prototype APG-63(V)3 system in June 2006."


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## T4.H (Oct 31, 2007)

To answer one of the questions...

End of 2004 they made a test, one Typhoon (two seat version) against two US F15E (in dodfight). Both were outmaneuvered and simulated shot down after short time.
Eurofighter EF 2000 - Wikipedia

Next Question


comiso90 said:


> Adequate for taking on the Chinese J-10.. but the MiG35 and SU-35.... I think that will be a challenge.




DERA-study: Typhoon vs. Su35 shot down ratio...4.5 SU35 to 1 Thyphoon
Eurofighter EF 2000 - Wikipedia

As I know, the Thyphoon is little bit better in al properties (or will be soon) than the Raptor with one exeption. The Raptor has better stealth properties.
Little bit longer range, better avionic, three times cheaper, passive infrared system (IRST system), much bigger load, pilots can carry a water filled anti g suit (F22 also?), much better in dogfight, shorter airfield needed, climbs faster, both have supercruise feature etc...
The F22 less or more is only a Fighter, the Typhoon can be used as a fighter and as a bomber.
Nowadays fighter-bomber are needed.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 31, 2007)

I dont see how a Raptor will be less effective as a fighter than the Typhoon because the Raptor has thrust vectoring which will help make it more maneuverable. Correct me if I am wrong but the Typhoon does not have thrust vectoring nor does it have stealth. F-22 is a tad bit above the Typhoon.


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## plan_D (Oct 31, 2007)

Thanks, Stitch. 

Well, the Typhoon will have AESA by 2010 - Britain's tight-fisted leadership forcing them to be behind once again.


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## FLYBOYJ (Oct 31, 2007)

T4.H said:


> Nowadays fighter-bomber are needed.


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## drgondog (Oct 31, 2007)

mkloby said:


> Many don't understand that Matt



You guys are dead on. The radar, target acquisition and lethality of the missiles are where we thought they should be when we abandoned guns prior to Viet Nam.

The dominant trends are force multipliers for existing and future technology stacks and the unmanned fighter is not far behind in context of threat horizon in 2020s.

The Raptor is king as long as Stealth and stand off capabilities are uncompromised. It's only when you get in close enough to acquire with mark one eyeballs that the ACM and pilot skill become crucial.

The F-15 can compete better against the Typhoon than the F-22 for the above reasons.


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## drgondog (Oct 31, 2007)

Subject: fighting against an F-22 Raptor

A pilots' analysis of dog fighting against an F-22:

Sprey said his briefing focused on the time-tested factors that define an effective fighter plane:

(1) See the enemy first;

(2) outnumber the enemy;

(3) outmaneuver the enemy to fire, and

(4) kill the enemy quickly. 

Having spent two weeks fighting two Raptors against 6-8 of our latest technology F-15Cs with datalink, AIM-9X, helmet mounted cueing system and the latest radar software, we 



1) ... never acquired the Raptor with our radars before our eyes. We occasionally saw it in the cons at 60+K, but by that time we were already dead. 



2) ... outnumbered the Raptors 3-1 or 4-1, and never even got a valid shot off on one. 



3) ... found the only BFM setup even worth attempting against a Raptor is a 6K offensive setup, and you're just trying to keep from going defensive. If you're at 3K approaching a gun wez, he will stop so fast you can't help but overshoot. If you're at 9K offensive, he turns around and shoots you before you get to his turn circle. No need to even talk about when he starts offensive. 



4) ... knowing the above info, killing the Raptor quickly wasn't an option, we couldn't kill even one! 



I was convinced. We were even fighting some of the initial lots of airplanes, before their data links were working correctly and they had older software. I haven't fought the newer lots flown at Tyndall or Langley, but I can assure you they are even more lethal.



Sortie rates are on the rise, software stability is on the rise. All I can say to the critics is in 20 years when this airplane goes to war it will still dominate, just like the Eagle did when we employed it 18 years after fielding!


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## mkloby (Oct 31, 2007)

Great post drgondog. Some good info from an airwarrior. T4 - I may actually print your post and use it as toilet paper.


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## Matt308 (Nov 1, 2007)

Now that was funny.


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## SoD Stitch (Nov 1, 2007)

drgondog said:


> Subject: fighting against an F-22 Raptor
> 
> A pilots' analysis of dog fighting against an F-22:
> 
> ...



I had read something similar to the above a few weeks ago in an issue of Smithsonian Air Space magazine (or Air Combat Magazine, I can't remember which); the F-15C pilots participating in the Red Flag were frustrated even though they'd been the "top dogs" of Red Flag for years.

Quote:

"When the Raptor finds itself in a dogfight, it is no longer beyond visual range, but the advantage of stealth isn't diminished. It maintains "high ground" even at close range. 

"I can't see the [expletive deleted] thing," said RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, exchange F-15 pilot in the 65th Aggressor Squadron. "It won't let me put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it visually through the canopy. [Flying against the F-22] annoys the hell out of me." 

Lt. Col. Larry Bruce, 65th AS commander, admits flying against the Raptor is a very frustrating experience. Reluctantly, he admitted "it's humbling to fly against the F-22," - humbling, not only because of its stealth, but also its unmatched maneuverability and power."


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## Matt308 (Nov 1, 2007)

The F-22 is the worlds ONLY 5th generation fighter. The capabilities of this machine have not even begun to be tapped. In fact, its inherent capabilities are so vast, that it is requiring new and novel approaches to training. The F-22 is truly changing the current air superiority doctrine.


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## T4.H (Nov 4, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I dont see how a Raptor will be less effective as a fighter than the Typhoon because the Raptor has thrust vectoring which will help make it more maneuverable. Correct me if I am wrong but the Typhoon does not have thrust vectoring nor does it have stealth. F-22 is a tad bit above the Typhoon.



No time to go into the net and to write...

OK, second Question: ...does it have stealth.

No and yes. It has some stealth features. The radar signature has just a quarter of the size of a Panavia Tornado. They changed the air entrance, the air to air rockets are partly hided in the body and some parts are paintet with a anti radar colour.

First question: ...but the Typhoon does not have thrust vectoring...
Yes it doesn't have. The third charge perhaps will have it.
Does Thyphoon need this system? 
No!
Why not?
It has canard wings. Together with the flaps of the main wing, you can fly the Typhoon like it would have a thrust vectoring system!
The F22 was constructed to be a fighter with stealth features.
The Typhoon was constructed to be the best dogfighter of the world.
Perhaps in 20 years you can construct a fighter with stealth features which is as good as a fighter without it. But not now.
And don't forget, a typhoon you can pull up with 9 g at supersonic speed.
You are a pilot, I think, you can try it onces with a F22. 
I think, you understand, what I mean with *onces* (in your live)!


Both are realy good fighters.
The F22 has the stealth feature. The Typhoon has the better electronic systems (speach stearing of systems, newer computer systems (less work for the pilot to shoot down an aircraft) etc.), ECM systems, infrared systems to recognize a F22 (50km range), better in dogfights etc...
The F22 is just too expensive to buy it in high numbers. Against which opponent you expect to fight in the next years?
Syria? Iran? Pakistan? North Korea?
These opponents just didn't have any aircraft to win a battle against a F22 or a Typhoon. These aircrafts are superior to there opponents. It just makes no difference.
A Typhoon is perhaps 3 to 6 times cheaper than a F22.
You will never have enough F22 you will need!

I know, that the russians have realy good infrared systems. (well known found on the Mig29). And of course they have the better ejection seats . Nowadays you have to avoid the use any radar systems, passiv systems will rule the air (and also the sea). Who wants to fly as a "lighthouse" through the air? I'm not sure that the F22 will have a better (or much better) shot down ratio against a Su35 than a Typhoon.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 4, 2007)

T4.H said:


> The F22 has the stealth feature. The Typhoon has the better electronic systems


Prove it!


T4.H said:


> These aircrafts are superior to there opponents. It just makes no difference.
> A Typhoon is perhaps 3 to 6 times cheaper than a F22.
> You will never have enough F22 you will need!


Not when one could take on and defeat 5 or 6 opponents at once. And once again you forget about the F-35 which might be just as capable as the F-22 - i suggest you do some more homework on this matter....


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## Glider (Nov 4, 2007)

I would suggest that the main problem with the F22 is that its a victim of its own success and of course, its cost.

The few countries that can afford it (Saudi a good example) would never be allowed to buy it, the most likely country to need it, Israel, cannot be trusted with it (look at what happened to the Lavi). 
Everyone else will look at the price tag, look at the threat, work out that there are alternatives, Typhoon/Rafael etc, that can deal with the threat at a much cheaper cost and go for the cheaper option.

The USA probably have enough to meet their needs but almost no one else will be able/allowed to buy it. 

Good news for those employed in the Typhoon programme, bad news for those on the F22 production line, as once the US orders are fulfilled the game could be over. It would be a brave person who would bet that a new Goverment wouldn't cut the number of F22's on order and replace than with cheaper F35's, making the situation worse.


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## Glider (Nov 4, 2007)

I forgot to add that FJ ad the others are correct, the F22 is way ahead of the opposition, even the Typhoon the key being STEALTH.

It wouldn't matter if the F22 had the performance of a dog, it you cannot see it, you cannot kill it and it can kill you.
The point is clear.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 4, 2007)

Glider said:


> I would suggest that the main problem with the F22 is that its a victim of its own success and of course, its cost.
> 
> The few countries that can afford it (Saudi a good example) would never be allowed to buy it, the most likely country to need it, Israel, cannot be trusted with it (look at what happened to the Lavi).
> Everyone else will look at the price tag, look at the threat, work out that there are alternatives, Typhoon/Rafael etc, that can deal with the threat at a much cheaper cost and go for the cheaper option.
> ...


Glider you've hit the nail right on the head. Lockheed it doing a balancing act right now with both programs. There were a lot of mistakes made on the F-22 development and those mistakes were learned during the X-35 and that's why it ran away from its competition. Pump one program up and you're dooming the other.


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## T4.H (Nov 4, 2007)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Prove it!
> 
> Not when one could take on and defeat 5 or 6 opponents at once. And once again you forget about the F-35 which might be just as capable as the F-22 - i suggest you do some more homework on this matter....



We are talking about the F22 and the Typhoon...
Not about the rest of your airforce.
You will have 178 F22...
The much smaler Airforce of Germany will have 180 Typhoon (or so).
Great Britain 232...etc.

Do you realy think, the Typhoon couldn't take on and defeat 5 or 6 opponents at once? Both aircrafts are so much better than all possible opponents...Perhaps in 30 years there will be a difference.
In war...100 have to stay at home (training, refit etc.) or somewhere else in the world...so you have perhaps 80 which you can use...
How many will be over the enemy coutryside at the same time...
10? 8? or perhaps 6? How much of the enemy country they can cover? Do they fly alone or in groups? (I would say in groups). The rest have to be repaired, to be reloded to be refilled etc. Or the pilots are waiting for there next job. And this of course only if you can start from airfields next to the enemy country. 
And never forget...
Less or more, you can (or will) use the F22 only as a fighter. What you will do with this one if you have defeated all opponents?
(and again...) The Typhoon you will use as a fighter-bomber.
And before I forgot...

For me, it would be nice to have the F22. But noone needs this fighter anymore.
I would pefer to have a higher number of F35 instead (or a higher number of Typhoon).


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 4, 2007)

T4.H said:


> We are talking about the F22 and the Typhoon...
> Not about the rest of your airforce.


Yes I realize that...


T4.H said:


> You will have 178 F22...
> The much smaler Airforce of Germany will have 180 Typhoon (or so).
> Great Britain 232...etc.


 and again you're forgetting about the F-35.


T4.H said:


> Do you realy think, the Typhoon couldn't take on and defeat 5 or 6 opponents at once?


Not 5 of 6 F-22s


T4.H said:


> Both aircrafts are so much better than all possible opponents...Perhaps in 30 years there will be a difference.
> In war...100 have to stay at home (training, refit etc.) or somewhere else in the world...so you have perhaps 80 which you can use...
> How many will be over the enemy coutryside at the same time...
> 10? 8? or perhaps 6?


In future war that's all that may be needed.


T4.H said:


> How much of the enemy country they can cover? Do they fly alone or in groups? (I would say in groups).


As far as supporting tankers can support...



T4.H said:


> The rest have to be repaired, to be reloded to be refilled etc. Or the pilots are waiting for there next job. And this of course only if you can start from airfields next to the enemy country.
> And never forget...
> Less or more, you can (or will) use the F22 only as a fighter. What you will do with this one if you have defeated all opponents?
> (and again...) The Typhoon you will use as a fighter-bomber.
> And before I forgot...


The F-22 has a fighter bomber capability being offered...

" For its air-to-ground role, the F-22 can internally carry two 1,000 pound-class Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM), two AIM-120C, and two AIM-9 missiles"

F-22 Raptor - Military Aircraft


T4.H said:


> For me, it would be nice to have the F22. But noone needs this fighter.
> I would pefer to have a higher number of F35 instead (or a higher number of Typhoon).


Now there I agree....


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## T4.H (Nov 4, 2007)

Glider said:


> I forgot to add that FJ ad the others are correct, the F22 is way ahead of the opposition, even the Typhoon the key being STEALTH.
> 
> It wouldn't matter if the F22 had the performance of a dog, it you cannot see it, you cannot kill it and it can kill you.
> The point is clear.



This would be right if...

the Typhoon and the Su35 wouldn't be constructed to shoot down especially Fighters with stealth features...(infrared systems...).
Why do you think, they have somethink like this on board.

And the F35 is a nice aircraft (OK, the german airforce will never buy it, only one engine, not after the F104).
And it would be a much more nice aircraft, if any modern radar system in the world would still work on the X-band...
but they didn't.

I have to leave now.
Perhaps I will have time again to write next weekend.
I fear not.

Mfg
The Fourth Horseman

p.s.: 


FLYBOYJ said:


> " For its air-to-ground role, the F-22 can internally carry two 1,000 pound-class Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM), two AIM-120C, and two AIM-9 missiles"



Nice, so it can make two big holes in one attack...
Question:
Would it be enough to fight against the irak army with there thousands of tanks in the second gulf war?
(and again the first one was the Iran Irak gulf war...)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 4, 2007)

T4.H I think you are underestimating the F-22 and its capabilities.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 4, 2007)

T4.H said:


> Nice, so it can make two big holes in one attack...


And sometimes that's all thats needed - BTW the F-117 carried the same load



T4.H said:


> Question:
> Would it be enough to fight against the irak army with there thousands of tanks in the second gulf war?
> (and again the first one was the Iran Irak gulf war...)


No - there were plenty of tanks and helicopters to take care of that and they did!!!!

But those two bombs was all that was needed to completely destroy the Iraqi military headquarters and those would been the type of targets the F-22 would take out if used in an air-to-ground role. leave the tanks to the F-35 and Apache. The Abrams' could have whats left over...


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## T4.H (Nov 4, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> T4.H I think you are underestimating the F-22 and its capabilities.



I don't think so. But perhaps you are right.
But perhaps you overestimate the F22.

I think F22 against the Typhoon has a ratio of "only" 1 to 1.2 or 1.3...
Do you ever expect they will ever fight against each other?
And I think both aircrafts will shoot down any possible opponent at less or more the same ratio (nowadays).
Perhaps the Typhoon would be a little bit better.

And now I realy have to leave.

Mfg

The Fourth of The Four


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 4, 2007)

T4.H said:


> I don't think so. But perhaps you are right.
> But perhaps you overestimate the F22.
> 
> I think F22 against the Typhoon has a ratio of "only" 1 to 1.2 or 1.3...
> ...



No I am not. I think the Typhoon is an excellent aircraft but the Raptor is a step above. 

I honestly dont think the Typhoon is more maneuverable. The F-22 can litterally turn on a dime.

You say the Typhoon has better avionics and electical package. I dont think you can say that when you dont know the full extent of the F-22 package. None of us do. So much of the F-22 is still classified.


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## plan_D (Nov 4, 2007)

Until 2010 when the Typhoon receives AESA; the avionic systems are not comparable - the F-22 is a mile step ahead.


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## mkloby (Nov 4, 2007)

Seems like someone just as an issue of pride clouding his judgement. Notice Mr T4 has presented absolutely zero evidence to back up any of his claims of the Typhoon's superiority over the 22.


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## T4.H (Nov 5, 2007)

mkloby said:


> Seems like someone just as an issue of pride clouding his judgement. Notice Mr T4 has presented absolutely zero evidence to back up any of his claims of the Typhoon's superiority over the 22.



I have no time to confirm any data. Next time (perhaps) to confirm will be next weekend. But I fear not. Just no time...not enough time... 

You have to confirm it by yourself.
Most of the data you can find in...

Eurofighter EF 2000 - Wikipedia

By bad luck in german.

I found out that the English wikipedia-version is different to the German version.

I wish you a nice week.

T4.H


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 5, 2007)

Here....

Eurofighter Typhoon - Demon or Lemon?

APA Analysis - F-22A Raptor

*"The probability of a successful engagement can be translated into the more commonly used metric of a kill ratio by making some reasonable statistical assumptions, and doing this yields about 10.0:1 for the F-22A, 4.6:1 for the Typhoon, 1.5:1 for the single seat F-15E, 1:1 for the Rafale and 0.75:1 for the F-15C. So in the most common terms used, the Typhoon is by the DERA simulation about half as combat effective as the F-22A, about three times as combat effective as the F-15F, about five times as effective as the Rafale and 6 times as effective as the F-15C. If we compare this with cited USAF claims rating the F-22A as 10-15 times as combat effective as the F-15C in BVR engagements, this means that the DERA study roughly agrees with USAF assessments of F-22A vs F-15C combat effectiveness. The detailed assumptions applied to this study have not been disclosed." *


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 5, 2007)

T4.H said:


> I have no time to confirm any data. Next time (perhaps) to confirm will be next weekend. But I fear not. Just no time...not enough time...
> 
> You have to confirm it by yourself.
> Most of the data you can find in...
> ...



And you can not use Wikipedia to confirm anything. It is one of the most unreliable sources. 

In order for you to prove anything you need to find out the turn and roll radius of both aircraft. I dont think you can do that.

In order to prove that the Typhoon has a better avionics package you need to know what all is in the F-22. I know you can not do that.


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## Glider (Nov 5, 2007)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Here....
> 
> Eurofighter Typhoon - Demon or Lemon?
> 
> ...



Good article although the author seems to have a thing about Australia. The above doesn't look good for the Rafale, maybe thas why no one has bought it.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 5, 2007)

He's from Australia so it had the slant....


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## Matt308 (Nov 6, 2007)

And by the way, the F-22 was recently tested with 8 small diameter bombs (SDB). All internal stowage with 2 AMRAAMs and 2 Sidewinders.

Interesting that T.4H thinks that an F-22 and its inherent capabilities is going to be wasted in stopping masses of soviet hardware. That alone is enough to convince me of his ignorance in this subject.

T.4H, we understand you are very busy and find it hard to post with your vast evidence. Do us all a favor and don't go out of you way to change your mind. Good day to you, sir.


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