# Russian P-47



## Pisis (Aug 11, 2006)

Came across something interesting, that I just thought I would share. I always knew that the Russians got a great deal of Allied aircraft assistance during the war, B25's, P51's, B29s, P39's, P40's, the accasional B17, DC3s, Hurri's Spits and even the odd Boston here and there.....but P47s too?








That one was new on me.


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## plan_D (Aug 20, 2006)

I've heard it mentioned before but never in great deal. It's literally been "The Ruskies got some Thunderbolts too ... but I don't know how many." Which has been really helpful ... not. Good find on the picture, by the way.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 20, 2006)

Interesting...

Note the Loop Antenna - It looks like something the Ruskies put in.


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## P38 Pilot (Aug 21, 2006)

Very interesting....Never seen a P-47 marked with Russian markings.


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## lesofprimus (Aug 21, 2006)

Heres a couple quotes from ubi.com...

"I have heard that some were used as inteceptors over Moscow-
A total of 203 were said to have been delivered to the USSR.
They were "ferried to Abaden, Iran, where they were turned over to Soviet pilots"

"Other online sources state that 195 "D" models went to Russia, who (the Russians) apparently did not like them that much."

"The Red Army Air Force gets 196 Thunderbolts P-47D-22-RE P-47D-27-RE. The Russian pilots did not like it. They said that under 6.000 meters Thunderbolt was more like a flying heavy target rather than a fighter. It was probably intended to be a high altitude escort fighter but Russians did not have many heavy bombers to escort. So most Thunderbolts did not reach the front and served in the air defense units in Roumania, Hungary and 50 of them in the North fleet. In such way P-47 was not used in combat by Soviets."

Ivan the *Terrible*Moderator 
Posted Fri February 27 2004 10:58 
Translated from airwar.ru. I`m not the best translator in the world, but this will give you an idea.

"Year 1944 and 1945. The press-service of firm Republic very much frequently published a symbolical picture of four fighters Ð-47 "Thunderbolt" in colors of the Air Forces of USA, the Great Britain, Brazil and Soviet Union. But " group portrait " does not suffice only "Thunderbolt" with a cocarde of the French Air Forces. Within the second world war fighters Ð-47 consist in arcenal of the Air Forces of five states. 

By quantity(amount) received "Thunderbolt" Soviet Union takes the fourth place. William Green in the fundamental work " Warplanes of the Second World War " speaks about 203 sent of USA in USSR "Thunderbolt" of variants P-47D-22-RE and P-47D-27-RE, 196 planes, according to Green, has reached the addressee. The information from archive of the general Staff of the Air Forces of the Soviet Army differs not strongly - 190 fighters Ð-47 is received in 1944 and five - in 1945. Probably, in the Soviet archive one more is not taken into account(discounted) plane - P-47D-10-RE factory number 42-75202 bought on collected American senators of means, this plane has received an own name " Knight of Pythias ". It(him) tested in middle of 1944 in scientific research institute of the Air Forces and ËÈÈ. 

"Thunderbolt" has disappointed soviet pilots - verifiers. One of best engineers - test pilots Mark Lazarevich Gallaj said about flight on Ð-47: 

" First minutes of flight I knew this is not a fighter! Steady, with comfortable spacious cockpit, convenient, but - not a fighter. "Thunderbolt" had not acceptable maneuverability in horizontal and it is especial in vertical . The plane slowly was dispersed - inertia of heavy aircraft had an effect. But "Thunderbolt" is wonderful for simple flight on a route without sharp maneuvers. It is not enough for a fighter ." 

Not really different opinion about "Thunderbolt" from pilots had Soviet aviation ingineers. Not looking at the licked forms of a fuselage and apparent perfection of aerodynamics, factor CX at "Thunderbolt" appeared less than at main German fighters Bf. 109G and Fw-190A. Interest has caused not the plane, but turbocharger , the engine, the aviation equipment. The plane have disassembled "by bones" and have carefully studied in the Bureau of new engineering comission (ÁÍÒ ÍÊÀÏ). Experts ÁÍÒ have let out in Russian the full description on fighter Ð-47. Engineers have made conclusions also concerning quality and methods of manufacturing of units and units that flew American fighter, having noted, that on a technological level Soviet aviation industry lags behind from American. 

Front pilots of Air Force have not estimated highly a transatlantic miracle. The escort of heavy bombers in 1944 at Soviet Union was not the slightest need - all weight of war was born(carried) on itself with front aircraft. Air fights on the soviet-German front were conducted at heights below 6000 m, just at those heights where "TBOLT" more all resembled a flying target. On small heights Ð-47 lost on all aspects to any Soviet or german fighter of a sample of 1944. The interesting fact - it is possible, that americans tried to improve manuevering qualities of "Soviet" "Thunderbolt", delivering them with already removed(taken off) external machine guns. Actually "Thunderbolt" repeated a history of soviet fighter MIG- 3 - outstanding at high alt and clumsy at the ground. This type of plane in Air Force during the war appeared dead. 

Certainly, it is necessary to take into account, that the opinion of the Soviet pilots and engineers was generated on base of fighter P-47D-10-RE. On landlease planes P-47D-22-RE and Ð-47D-27-RE were delivered equiped with more powerful engines R-2800-59. In the West the opinion is distributed, that Russian is simple not that machine tested, a P-47D-22 and Ð-47D-27 arrived too late. All course of air war on East front speaks that heavy high-altitude fighters here did not get accustomed. Heavy appeared even Fw-190 - fighter, which at the front Western was famous for its maneuverability. In Red Army all high-altitude fighters were deployed in regiments of air defence. Ñíà÷à¨ëà such ó÷àñòü has comprehended(overtaken) an MIG - 3, then "Spitfire" and finally "Thunderbolt". A unique place where appear they year earlier, "Thunderbolt" still could show itself, there was an aircraft of navy fleet. 

Majority of "Thunderbolt" came to Soviet Union southern way in the extent of 26 000 kms (the way borrowed(occupied) 42 day) from NY in the Persian port Abadan. In Abadan planes collected under supervision of military representatives of Air Forces, then tested then pilots of 6-th regiment would fly "Thunderbolt" on a route Abadan - Tegeran-Kirovobad. In Kirovabad planes accepted 11-th spare bomber regiment. On rout in the extent of 1450 kms pilots it was necessary to overcome two mountain ridges. With intermediate landing(planting) in Teheran extent without landing flight up to Kirovobad over Iran was reduced up to 754 kms. 

Pair fighters P-47D-30 from 397-th squadron of 368-th group in flight above Germany in the summer 1945. It red - yellow-red strips around of fuselages were are put after the termination(ending) of war with Germany for fast identification of "friendly" planes, it is obvious - "unfriendly" planes bore(carried) red stars. A strip on vertical plumage, antiglare a strip before a lantern of a cabin and a triangular strip onboard a fuselage - .yellow. 

First fighters "Thunderbolt" of the profit on air station 11-ãî ÇBAP August, 24, 1944. The order was given to this day on a 30th regiment, which stated that fighters P-47D-22-RE were accepted in service equipped with engines R-2800-59 with factory numbers 42-25611 and 42-26633. Large deliveries have begun hardly later. According to orders ¹¹ 36, 38 and 39 from December, 22, 1944 on arms of a part planes P-47D-22-RE with factory numbers 42-25541, 543-7, 552, 553, 555, 557, 559, 560-564, 566-568, 570, 574, 576-580, 582, 583, 586, 591, 594, 595, 600-610, 612, 614-617, 619-628, 631, 634, 636-638 - only 62 planes have acted(arrived). Then were accepted 47 fighters P-47D-27-RE with factory numbers 42-27015, 018, 019, 021, 0222, 025-029, 031-033, 037, 038, 042-044, 050, 052-055, 058, 061, 116, 117, 123, 129, 130-132, 134, 140, 141, 144, 149, 150, 154, 156, 157, 159, 160,162 and 163. Thus, 11-th ZBAP has received 111 "Thunderbolts". 

In 1945 "Thunderbolts" arrived to an arrangement of 11-th ZBAP two parties(sets), April, 21 - two P-47D-27 release of a factory in Fermigdale (factory numbers 42-27136 and 42-27146) and April, 27 - four more similar fighters (factory numbers 42-25551, 587, 590 and 593). 

All histories about delivery "Thunderbolt" to Soviet Union northern escorts through Murmansk or on route Alaska - Siberia are pure tale. Fighters Ð-347 arrived to the USSR only southern way through Iran. Technical specialists of the Air Force finished (or in general changed) radio stations " Thunderbolt" under frequencies, used in the Soviet aircraft; respondents of the radar-tracking systems of recognition" the - another's " were removed. Recognition symbols on P-47D-22-RE were recoloured - red stars with white - red border were rendered. On intended for delivery in USSR P-47D-27-RE red stars were painted direct at a factory firm Republic. As a rule they were painted in the same locations and the same sizes, as recognition symbols of the Air Forces of USA, frequently a red star was painted in a white circle. 

Into structure of 11-th 3BAP entered 4 squadrons on the basis of 1-st and 2-nd preparation bombing crews was conducted, on the basis of 3-rd and 4-th - preparation of pilots, mainly for planes P-39N/Q. In official documentation of 11-th 3BAP Ð-47 is called "Thunderbolt". The quantity(amount) of pilots in regiments that were trained on "Thunderbolt" is insignificant: 12 pilots in 1944 and in 1945 

Before the termination(ending) of war in Europe Ð-47 and have not appeared on arms of front parts of Air Force. Almost all "Thunderbolt" were going in fighter regiments of Southwest district of air defence. This significant aviation group was generated December, 24, 1944 for covering means of communication of 1-st, 2-nd, 3-rd and 4-th Ukrainian fronts in Romania, Hungary and Czechoslovakia.


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## lesofprimus (Aug 21, 2006)

The first 11 "Thunderbolt" (ten P-47D-22-RE with factory numbers 42-25544, 547, 555, 557, 564, 570, 604, 610, 622 and 638, one P-47D-27-RE with çà¨âîäñêèì number 42-27026) the profit on located in 50 km to the south Kiev air station White Church May, 31, 1945. In June, 1945 fighters devided by regiments. June, 12 to armies arrived 18 more planes P-47D-22-RE (factory numbers 42-25543, 560, 563, 678, 593, 600, 601, 605, 606, 609, 611, 614617, 619, 621, 628, 633 and 634) and one P-47D-27-RE with factory number July, 42-27038.11 arrived the third party(set): 17 planes R-47D-22-RE (factory numbers 42-2552, 556,567,580,582, 583,691, 594,602,603, 607, 616, 624-627 and 631) and two P-47D-27-RE with factory numbers 42-27132 and 42-27154. 

Fighters Ð-47 not long left on arms of parts of Soviet air defence. According to the agreement about landlease the majority of planes have returned to Americans. " Thunderbolt" in air station Stryj (80 kms jugo-to the west of Lvov) where them also overate to representatives of USA. Americans have considered economically not acceptable to drag back bunch of becoming unnecessary fighters. Was accepted decision to result planes in unsuitable in flights condition, as the tool for such work tanks in the best way came. Destruction "Thunderbolt" has borrowed(occupied) a lot of time - all winter 1945-46 ã.ã. Vigilance of representatives of USA observing behind process, ïîñòîÿí¨íî was exposed to temptations. The matter is that representatives of the West piously trusting in ideals free face to face have met an animal grin of injurious socialism and couldn`t handle temptations. Simple Soviet people have learned trustful as babies 100 % yank to drink everyone alkohol muck from an aviation facilities(economy) - vodka, moonshine and especially not whisky, and any liquor the chassis! Moreover, barbarians ate while drinking alcohol the Ukrainian bacon, which represented simply saulted pig fat - bacon. The nightmare consist that drank liquor the chassis and guzzled "bacon" directly open-air day after day! Poor Americans were involved in process so, that began to change "bacon" at local population for suitable details in facilities(economy) "Thunderbolt". As is known, the Ukrainian peasant better the Soviet ensign - at a crest any detail in a facilities(an economy) is useful. And here - aviation hours, êîëáî÷êè, jars from stainless still or aluminium, and what remarkable coils were made from pipelines! In general(common), business and friendship of peoples blossomed in air station Old without dependence from bitter colds. Thunderbolts were turned into kitchen tools

In aircraft of the Navy of the USSR fighter Ð-47 has received 255-th IAP Air Forces North fleet. "Thunderbolt" in this regiment was not the first American plane, mastered by pilots. In 1943 of 255-th IAP got Ð-39 "Aircobra" modification "N" and "Q". The Soviet sea pilots successfully fought on "Cobra" so July, 16, 1943 lieutenant V.A.Burmatov on P-39N has brought down Hans Dyobriha from II./JG-5, the expert with 65 victories. First P-47D-22-RE 255-th IAP has received October, 29, 1944 

Command of sea aircraft has decided to recheck results fligth tests P-47D-10-RE in Aviation Institute. The aircraft of the Navy of the USSR had no own test base, that`s why have decided to test "Thunderbolt" using skilled front line fighters from 255-th IAP. 

Test flights took place from October, 29 till November, 5, 1944, simultaneously it was investigated possiblity basings "Thunderbolt" in polar air stations. Despite of a deadline the program of tests looked rather sated: 

- Rise and landing(planting) with concrete and ground strips with full loading; 
- Definition of fighting radius combat with various to variants bomb loadings on an external suspension bracket: 2õÔÀÁ-250 (on a bomb on underwing mount), 3õÔÀÁ-250 (two bombs on underwing and one on underfusulage units of a suspension bracket), 2õÔÀÁ-500; 
- Bombing from a dive; 
- Dive bombing with height 20-25 m on a distance of 150-170 m from the purpose. 

Results of tests as a whole appeared favorable. The plane with two bombs ÔÀÁ-250 normally flied up from air station Vaenga. Dump of bombs was made in a dive under a corner 50 hailstones from height of 3000 m, aiming at bombing occured on regular machine-gun gunsight. Bombing by three FAB-250 or to two FAB-500 have found possible(probable) to carry out only from horizontal flight. The endurance(quotation) from " the Report on tests of plane P-47D-22-RE " Thunderbolt" below is given. 

From the commander of the Air Forces of Council of Federation of the general - lieutenant of aircraft Preobrazhenski ¹ 08489 from November, 13, 1944 
The official report to the Commander of the Air Forces of the Navy of the USSR 
To marshal Zhavoronkovu I Report, that by results of flight test plane P-47D-22-RE " Thunderbolt" of serial construction by me the decision on arms of one squadron of 255-th IAP is accepted 14 planes " Thunderbolt". 

The squadron will carry out the following problems(tasks): 
1. Distant support Bombers 
2. Horizontal and low-level bombing at the rate of bombing loadings up to 1000 kg on one plane 
3. Attack of the ships escorts 

The marshal of Larks has appended instructions on the document: " I Approve. Equip regiments and allocate 50 planes ". 

In 255-th IAP "Thunderbolt" (basically P-47D-27-RE with bubble canopy) were maintained within one year after the termination(ending) of war, longer, than no matter where in the USSR. The way sea "Thunderbolt" finished almost the same as also them brothers from parts of air defence - in a ravine on the side of Vaengi under caterpillars(tracks) of tractors. "


I will not take responcibility for grammar and spelling errors 

V!
Regards,



VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 21, 2006)

Cool chit!!!


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## lesofprimus (Aug 21, 2006)

Ask and ye shall recieveth....


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## Wurger (Aug 22, 2006)

I've found the info that in USSR 196 of P-47s were used from 1944 to 1947.Besides,there are some profiles of P-47D served in the Air Forces of the North fleet (the first and the second one, the third a/c I haven't had any info on it .)

source unknown:


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## Pisis (Aug 22, 2006)

Cool, thank you Les and Wurger!


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## Wurger (Aug 22, 2006)




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## elmilitaro (Aug 22, 2006)

Nice pics Wurger!!


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## BlackWolf3945 (Aug 25, 2006)

This shot shows P-47D-27-RE 42-27028 along with US, Brit and Brazilian Jugs...





Image source: unknown ish of FAOTW


Here's P-47D-27-RE 42-27062...





Image source: unknown ish of FAOTW


Fade to Black...


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## Wurger (Aug 26, 2006)

Nice pics BlackWolf3945 .


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## zuluecho (Aug 27, 2006)

lesofprimus/ Anyone.. Is there a detailed list of the different planes shipped there? serial numbers? and what happened to them? thanks


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## evangilder (Aug 27, 2006)

Checking the serial number base, I was able to find 203 by serial number that were transferred to the USSR:

P-47D-10-RE
Serials 42-75201 through 42-75203 (3 total)

P-47D-22-RE
Serials 42-25539 through 42-25638 (100 total)

P-47D-27-RE
Serials 42-27015 through 42-27064 (50)
Serials 42-27115 through 42-27164 (50)

From what I have read (spotty facts, alot of hearsay), not all of the 100 of the P-47D-22-RE models made it to the USSR. What became of these aircraft since their arrival is something that cannot be determined while sitting here in California. I am guessing that they were used until they crashed, were shot down, or melted into ingots post war to make newer aircraft.


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## Pisis (Aug 28, 2006)

Well, the Soviets became known for their unrealibility...


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## Aggie08 (Sep 15, 2006)

Oh dear, the Jug at the hands of vodka'd up fighter pilots... heaven only knows what happened with these birds, because the pilots sure dont remember!


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## Pisis (Sep 16, 2006)

That's not true man...


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## Wurger (Sep 17, 2006)

Aggie08 said:


> Oh dear, the Jug at the hands of vodka'd up fighter pilots... heaven only knows what happened with these birds, because the pilots sure dont remember!



It's again a common opinion.Pisis is right.


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## Pisis (Sep 17, 2006)

But on the other hand, we all know that where is cold, there you have to warm up yourself with a bit of something sharper.


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## Wurger (Sep 18, 2006)

He,he... Now It is true.However,reading recollections of WW2 pilots from different air forces (not The Russian one only) we could flnd info that many of them had liked getting something "sharper" before a struggle began.


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## Pisis (Sep 18, 2006)

Wasn't that dangerous? I mean, alcohol slow down your reactions...
But then again, we have to agree that Russian (and commonly Slavs) are quite a drunktards. But I think during the WWII, they didn't drink that much. I think it started in the 50's... I still remember one story our Chemistry professor told us. When the Russians came to Prague in 1968, they ocuppied some sort of lab houses somewhere (don't remember that very cleraly). There were also grain alcoholed exponates, like tapewurm in alcohol, various sorts of snakes etc... The Russkies drunk all the alcohol from it...


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## Wurger (Sep 18, 2006)

I thought it was.But it seems that they didn't drink much.I think the hangover was much more "popular".Especially,the next day after they had shot down somebody. 
Besides you know the proverb, the man isn't a camel and has to drink.


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## Pisis (Sep 18, 2006)

Tak.


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## Henk (Sep 20, 2006)

He he he........., you need something sharp and strong to inspire you to give your best. lol


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## Wurger (Sep 21, 2006)




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## Aggie08 (Sep 24, 2006)

Haha, sorry, it was a low joke. Apologies... I know thats not how it is. But there is the fact that no one knows what happened the to ruskie jugs...


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## Ramirezzz (Sep 24, 2006)

Aggie08 said:


> Haha, sorry, it was a low joke. Apologies... I know thats not how it is. But there is the fact that no one knows what happened the to ruskie jugs...



They've been scrapped.
Besides, a drunken fighter pilot is IMHO a nonsense. Already a small doze of alcohol will considerably slow your reaction and reduce your motoric abilities. Although i've heard of some Il-2 pilots who'd drunk "sto gramm", 100 gram vodka before every flight to take away the stress


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## Pisis (Sep 25, 2006)

Yes I agree with you. And I've heard about the vodka thing but not in the VVS, rather in the army. But that wasn't just sto...


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 25, 2006)

In Victor Belenko's biography, he told of a story where his crew chief fell off the boarding ladder on to the tarmac, we was totally drunk.


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## Matt308 (Sep 25, 2006)

Educate me. I did not realize that the D model had anything other than teardrop canopy. Wasn't the C model the last with the lattice canopy?


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## pbfoot (Sep 25, 2006)

There have not been many aircrew teetotalers in any military . The most famous that I know about is Beurling and he was some ostracized for his lack of Espirit d'corp in the mess or O club


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## evangilder (Sep 25, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> Educate me. I did not realize that the D model had anything other than teardrop canopy. Wasn't the C model the last with the lattice canopy?



Actually, no. The early D models had the razorback, and a few were even tested with Malcolm hoods. Joe Baugher has some great info here: 
Republic P-47D Thunderbolt

An excerpt


> The 3962 P-47D-1RE to -22-RE Farmingdale-built Thunderbolts, the 1461 P-47D-2-RA to -23-RA Evansville-built Thunderbolts, and the entire lot of 354 P-47G-1-CU through P-47G-15-CU Curtiss-built Thunderbolts all had the original framed sliding canopy that was first used on the P-47B. However, combat experience indicated that the the rear fuselage decking on these Thunderbolts provided a serious blind spot aft which was a real hindrance in air-to-air battles. In an attempt to improve rearward visibility, a few P-47Ds were fitted in the field with the RAF "Malcolm hood", a Spitfire-like bubble canopy made in England which was made famous by its application to the P-51B and C Mustangs flown by both the RAF and USAAF. However, P-47Ds fitted with Malcolm hoods were quite rare, whereas P-51Bs and Cs with Malcolm hoods were quite common.
> 
> In the meantime, in search of a more lasting solution the USAAF fitted a standard P-47D-5-RE airframe (serial number 42-8702) with a bubble canopy taken from a Hawker Typhoon. In order to accommodate the bubble canopy, the Republic design team had to cut down the rear fuselage. This conversion was redesignated XP-47K, and was tested in July 1943. This modification was immediately proven to be feasible, and was promptly introduced on both the Farmingdale and Evansville production lines.
> 
> ...


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## Wurger (Sep 26, 2006)

Hi !!!
Here some colour profiles of the P-47 equipped with the Malcolm hood.

1. P-47 D-22-RE from 56FG England, June 1944.
2. P-47 D-22-RE from 511FS/405FG/9AF winter 1944/45.
3. P-47 D-15-RE from 394FS/367FG/9AF December 1944.
4. P-47 D-20-RE from 361FS/356FG/8AF France, November 1944.

Source unknown:


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## evangilder (Sep 26, 2006)

Cool addition to the info, Wurger.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 26, 2006)

the bottom profile makes it look a lot more like an F6F...........


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## v2 (Sep 26, 2006)

...


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## Pisis (Sep 26, 2006)

> Sovereign Sensations K. of P.


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## Wurger (Sep 27, 2006)

Pisis said:


>



An interesting question,Pisis.But looking at the blown up pic I was convinced that there was written "Sovereign Senators K. of P.

BTW Nice pic V2.


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## Wurger (Sep 27, 2006)

I've found this profile and the info that the a/c was P-47D-10-RE serial no. 42-75202 from unknown unit. This plane was bought on money of American senators. It had personal name 'Knight of Pythias'. It was tested in Middle of 1944 in NII VVS and LII.


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## Pisis (Sep 27, 2006)

Good research man! Saved in my P-47 folder!


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## Wurger (Sep 27, 2006)




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## BlackWolf3945 (Sep 28, 2006)

Here's a photo of one of those Jugs with the malcolm hood mod...





*Project 914 Archives*

This ship was flown by a fella named Walter Grabowski who passed away a couple years ago... real nice guy he was...


Fade to Black...


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## Wurger (Sep 29, 2006)

BlackWolf3945 said:


> This ship was flown by a fella named Walter Grabowski........




Yes,it was his plane.In addition:The first one was flown by both Mjr.Lesilie Smith and Capt.Witold Łanowski.The third - Lt.Jack Curtis.The fourth was flown by Lt.Col. Thomas Bailey.


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## Pisis (Sep 29, 2006)

So many Polskies in the USAAF... S!


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## Wurger (Sep 29, 2006)

Ano,my favourite is Capt. Bolesław Gładych from 61FS/56FG/8AF.All his "Jugs" were named " PENGIE" and were decorated with a penguin as an art.They look great.


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## Pisis (Oct 1, 2006)

Actually, there was also a few Czechoamericans in the USAAF (also a few thousands in the US Army). Like Jacob Blazicek, he also flew P-47's. But surely there was a greater migration from Poland then from the Czechlands to the USA, that's why you have much bigger community there.


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## Wurger (Oct 1, 2006)

Ano, but it is also nice that there were people from your country.


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## Pisis (Oct 2, 2006)

Yes,* S!* for all of them!


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## Douglas Jr. (Oct 6, 2006)

Pisis said:


> Came across something interesting, that I just thought I would share. I always knew that the Russians got a great deal of Allied aircraft assistance during the war, B25's, P51's, *B29s,* P39's, P40's, the accasional B17, DC3s, Hurri's Spits and even the odd Boston here and there.....but P47s too?



As far as I know, the Russians never received the B29 Superfortress. In fact they built a copy, the Tupolev Tu-4. During 1945, after a bombing raid on Japan, three B-29s were forced to land in Soviet territory due to emergencies. The Soviets seized the bombers, and Tupolev OKB dismantled and studied them. Stalin ordered Tupolev and his design bureau to copy the interned B-29s down to their smallest details, and produce a design ready for quantity production as soon as possible. Tupolev duly copied the B-29s bolt-by-bolt where possible, reverse-engineered the design where necessary.

Douglas.


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## Wurger (Oct 6, 2006)

Douglas Jr. said:


> Tupolev duly copied the B-29s bolt-by-bolt where possible...



As a result of this the bombload of the Tu-4 bomber was reduced in a half ( as memory serves), comparing to B-29 one.


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## Pisis (Oct 7, 2006)

Yes, it's true that the Russians stole these technical things very much. Another example is the Soviet metro - it was copied after the origïnal one from Chichago mid 30's...


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## Wurger (Oct 7, 2006)

Point for you Pisis. =D>


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## Pisis (Oct 9, 2006)

And for you as well. And it's equal.


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## Wurger (Oct 9, 2006)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 10, 2006)

interesting that the Tu-4's payload was half that of the B-29, i'd expect it to be less but not by half, due to different engines?


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## Gnomey (Oct 10, 2006)

Some history on it here, seems the engines weren't reliable although it doesn't mention about why the bombload was half the B-29.
Russian Aviation Page: Soviet B-29, a Tupolev Tu-4 Story


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## Wurger (Oct 10, 2006)

As I remember ,in an article which was published in an old issue of "Skrzydlata Polska" paper was written that Russian engineers had to use special devices to analze many unknown by them materials that were used for the B-29 constriction ( the rubber and plastic parts, for instance).Unfortunately,they didn't cope with this.As a result they were forced to make these of wood and other materials that were heavier than american ones.


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## Pisis (Oct 11, 2006)

Ah, ty edukowana glówa!


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## Wurger (Oct 11, 2006)




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## Skycat (Feb 21, 2009)

I know this is an old thread but I found something interesting today while researching the Alaska-Siberia Lend-Lease route. As you may or may not know, this was the only air route for Lend-Lease aircraft to Russia during the war. Almost 8,000 total planes (mostly P-39s, P-63s, A-20s and B-25s) were flown from Great Falls, Montana to Fairbanks, Alaska over the Yukon by American military pilots and then were turned over to Soviet pilots who flew them across the Bering Strait and Siberia to Kranyorsk, Russia. This was a long, perilous journey across a vast wilderness, often under extreme weather conditions.

Anyhow, my main source is a book titled Warplanes to Alaska by Blake W. Smith (c. 1998 ). Almost every source on the ALSIB operations lists three total P-47s delivered via this route. On page 171 of the book a photograph of bubble-topped Thunderbolt with Soviet markings is shown (S/N 227062), and the following caption accompanies:

_"Only three P-47 Thunderbolts were delivered to the Russians via the ALSIB Route, serial numbers 42-75201, 42-75202, and 42-75203, two of which were accompanying Lieutenant Billings during his ill-fated flight of October 27, 1943. The P-47D pictured was one of 189 delivered through Abadan."_

Since no photographs are offered in the book of the three Thunderbolts that were delivered via the ALSIB route, I next searched the internet using the serial numbers I had at my disposal. This led me to several "Sovereign Senators K. of P." references, including this thread.

Interestingly, while the color profile on page 3 of this thread and other sources identify "Sovereign Senators K. of P." as aircraft 42-75202, it looks to me that the tail number in the photograph on page 3 of this thread actually reads 42-75203! Somebody at another forum suggested that there may have been as many as nine "K. of P." aircraft in total. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that the patriotic 'Sovereign Senators' -- members of the Knights of Pythias, reportedly Lodge 463 in New York -- might have raised the money for two or even all three of the the Thunderbolts that were sent to Russia through Alaska. Whether this Masonic organization knew beforehand that the Thunderbolt(s) they sponsored was destined for Soviet use is entirely open for speculation.


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