# German Landships



## HealzDevo (Nov 21, 2004)

I was wondering whether anyone knew anything or had any pictures of the German Supertanks under development. The only one I know about is the Maus. I know all about the aircraft, but not the tanks and ground equipment that the Germans were planning on deploying in 1946. I was wondering whether anyone knew anything about this. 

See the whole idea of mine is for Civilisation III Conquests to do an alternative history scenario where a mole in the British American high command has betrayed D-Day to the Germans and as a result thousands of Allied Soldiers died. Then the German High Command swings into action and really begins invasion plans pulling some of the troops from shattered Normandy to help. Afrika has already fallen as a result of a brillant strategy by Rommel. 

I know about the aircraft, but have been unable to find pictures or models of 1946 projected German ground and naval prototypes. I was wondering whether anyone could oblige with what they have in their collection for this one. Or maybe some useful web-links as I have got stuck searching.

Thank-you in advance.


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## kiwimac (Nov 23, 2004)

Try these

Pz.Kfw. Maus (Projekt Porsche Nr. 205)

























































All from the site:

http://www.jagdtiger.de/index2.htm

Its a great resource.

Kiwimac


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## HealzDevo (Nov 25, 2004)

I know about the Maus but I was asking whether anyone knew of any others. Thanks for the photos though.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 27, 2004)

hat a 128mm with a 75mm mounted co-axel??


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## Anonymous (Nov 29, 2004)

Now that is a stupid weapon! Can you say bomb bait? Where could it actually travel? Would you have to have a crew pour cement roads in front of it?

The German wonder tanks were stupid weapons. The were so limited in where they could go and had such limited range they were only really useful for defense. You could build a hell of a lot of bunkers for the cost of one of those tanks!

=S=

Lunatic


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## redcoat (Nov 29, 2004)

HealzDevo said:


> I was wondering whether anyone knew anything or had any pictures of the German Supertanks under development. The only one I know about is the Maus. I know all about the aircraft, but not the tanks and ground equipment that the Germans were planning on deploying in 1946. I was wondering whether anyone knew anything about this.
> 
> .


While the German aircraft designers seemed to have come up with some amazing ideas for the next generation of jet aircraft towards the end of the war( even if some of them weren't very practical) German tank designers seemed to have 'lost the plot'
While the Maus seems a totally inpractical tank that would have been impressive but useless on the battlefield. The P1000 or the 'Ratte' was a totally insane idea, a tank over 4 times the size of the Maus 
Here's a light-hearted description of the Ratte
http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=1636


ps The only major sensible improvement planned for German tanks in 46 was the Panther II. In which the frontal armour of the Panther was to be increased from 60mm to 100mm, and the side armour from 30mm to 60mm. also the turret was to be redesigned to fit a 88mm/71 gun .
What the effect of all this extra weight on the already unreliable Panther is anybodies guess


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 29, 2004)

> Norton Internet Security has blocked access to this restricted site.
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> 
> ...



 Is that your little game?


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## redcoat (Nov 29, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> > Norton Internet Security has blocked access to this restricted site.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> ...


Hmmm,  
I better paste it then

The P. 1000 "Ratte" Type: The Biggest Tank that Never Was




Specific Features: Before I get into the specific features of the "Ratte" let us reminisce briefly about the largest tank ever completed; The Maus. I covered it in my first article on German super weapons and it's one of the more well known of Germany's uber tanks. The Maus weighed in at 188 tons (the M1A1 tank currently used by the United States weighs only 67 tons), had a massive 128mm main gun, and had armor that was a quarter of a meter thick in places. The Maus was built, it was real, it may have even seen combat although details are sketchy and this is probably unlikely. The Maus was also a monumental waste of resources and was ultimately impractical. 

The Ratte was the next in line to wear the crown of world's biggest tank, and it made the Maus look like its namesake. The Ratte was to be a nightmare machine and its scale still boggles the mind. It would have been 35 meters long, almost four times as wide as the Maus, and 11 meters high. Armor would have been similar or possibly slightly thicker than that seen on the Maus, but of course covering much more surface area. The tank would have been propelled along on a total of six 1.2 meter wide tread assemblies, three on each side of the tank. This means that the treads on one side would have been only slightly narrower than the entirety of a Maus. No less than eight Daimler E-boat engines would have provided the tank's requisite 16,000 horsepower and the turret would have literally been a Graf Spee class battleship turret with only two instead of three gun positions. 

If your pants aren't feeling uncomfortably tight yet, just wait until you hear about the armament. The turret would have mounted a pair of 280mm long barreled ship cannons, each gun weighing in at almost 50 tons and firing shells that weighed over 300 kg a piece and were capable of reaching out and touching someone 42 kilometers away. Practically these weapons w was built, it was real, it may have even seen combat although details are sketchy and this is probably unlikely. The Maus was also a monumental waste of resources and was ultimately impractical. 

The Ratte was the next in line to wear the crown of world's biggest tank, and it made the Maus look like its namesake. The Ratte was to be a nightmare machine and its scale still boggles the mind. It would have been 35 meters long, almost four times as wide as the Maus, and 11 meters high. Armor would have been similar or possibly slightly thicker than that seen on the Maus, but of course covering much more surface area. The tank would have been propelled along on a total of six 1.2 meter wide tread assemblies, three on each side of the tank. This means that the treads on one side would have been only slightly narrower than the entirety of a Maus. No less than eight Daimler E-boat engines would have provided the tank's requisite 16,000 horsepower and the turret would have literally been a Graf Spee class battleship turret with only two instead of three gun positions. 

If your pants aren't feeling uncomfortably tight yet, just wait until you hear about the armament. The turret would have mounted a pair of 280mm long barreled ship cannons, each gun weighing in at almost 50 tons and firing shells that weighed over 300 kg a piece and were capable of reaching out and touching someone 42 kilometers away. Practically these weapons w was built, it was real, it may have even seen combat although details are sketchy and this is probably unlikely. The Maus was also a monumental waste of resources and was ultimately impractical. 


The Ratte would have been able to drive over trucks, houses, and even the mighty Maus tank with ease. Its guns would have leveled buildings, blasted craters ten meters across in the earth, or sunk an unfortunate naval cruiser loitering a little too close to shore. The term P.1000 was a reference to the estimated thousand ton weight of the Ratte, but odds are it would have been much closer to 2000 tons. 

History: Very little remains of the history of the Ratte, but it is known that its development began at Krupp in the summer of 1942. Concept work and illustrations were completed by December of 1942 but it is unknown how much beyond this stage development of the Ratte progressed. It can be assumed that not much was finished because the P. 1000 program would have left a pretty easy to identify prototype behind. The Ratte program was never officially cancelled despite the immense waste of resources it would have been if a prototype had ever been completed.. Finally, instead of a turret machinegun the P.1000 was intended to mount either a dual or quad 20mm anti-aircraft gun on top of the 380 ton turret. .


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## HealzDevo (Nov 30, 2004)

Wow, talk about a tank and a half!!! No wonder they call them landships of WW2!!! That armament sounds like it would be more at home on a Battleship then on a Tank!!! Thank-you you have struck solid gold.


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## plan_D (Dec 22, 2004)

I knew about it. 

All the German super-heavies and, in fact, all German AFVs are on http://www.achtungpanzer.com/profiles.htm. 

It was a silly idea. The Maus was too, no bridge could have supported it. Invincible to tanks though, those pot holes on the one in Kubinka are from test firing at all ranges with a 122mm cannon. The E-100 was stupid too, the British captured its chassis. 

The Panther Ausf A was unreliable. And the Panther II wasn't just going to have increased armour. The new 'Schmal' turret which was going to be on the Panther II was a complete redesign, and not just to accomodate the 88mm cannon that had been proposed. In fact, the turret was designed to accomodate the KwK42/1 75mm cannon. The 88mm with stabiliser sight was to come later. It had range-finder equipment, increased armour on top (25mm from 16mm). Steel rimmed 'silent-bloc' wheels were going to be standard. Plus many other minor changes that made combat and conversion much easier, and a possible task by the troops in the field.


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## Anonymous (Jan 25, 2005)

I can imagine that the Ratte might come in handy to defend structures like the V3 they were planned to build. 

I can imagine they come up with 5 tanks and suddenly there is a beast of a thing in front of you  you better give up then


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## Anonymous (Jan 26, 2005)

Snake said:


> I can imagine that the Ratte might come in handy to defend structures like the V3 they were planned to build.
> 
> I can imagine they come up with 5 tanks and suddenly there is a beast of a thing in front of you  you better give up then



Or call in the air-force. One or two good AP bomb hits and the thing is finished.


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## mosquitoman (Jan 26, 2005)

Just drop a Tallboy on top of it, worked for the Tirpitz


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## Kongo Otto (Jan 28, 2005)

All of those Superheavy Tanks the Germans developed at the End of WW2 are totally useless.
Too heavy, too slow, not manouverable enough, too heavy for all Bridges at this Time, also too big and too heavy for fast railway movements.
What a waste of time and resorces.
How many Panzer IV H could been built for just the steel of one Maus Tank?
Even the King Tiger had to use different tracks when it was transported
with railway cars.

"Movement and speed are weapons" Guderian


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## plan_D (Jan 28, 2005)

You'll find a lot of German tanks required different tracks for transport.


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