# Allied Planes Of WWI



## GermansRGeniuses (Apr 12, 2004)

im kinda new to this topic and area of time, but i do know this: the Re.5 or whatever its called (its british and one of the best fighters of WWI if that helps anyone remember) could fire its gun vertically! this was done by putting the gun in reloading position and as long as you had ammo in the clip you could shoot it vertically!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 12, 2004)

lots of WWI planes could do that, they tried to counter the problem of firing a gun forward without hitting the prop., so they just mounted a gun on the top wing. it was hard to aim accuratly though....................


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## kiwimac (Apr 12, 2004)

Germans R Geniuses,

You are thinking of the SE5A







Source http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/royal-aircraft-factory-se5a.htm

Kiwimac


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 16, 2004)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> lots of WWI planes could do that, they tried to counter the problem of firing a gun forward without hitting the prop., so they just mounted a gun on the top wing. it was hard to aim accuratly though....................



My fav plane of WW1 was the Airco DH.2  

It was a single seat bi-plane fighter with the propellar situated at the back of the plane rather than the front hence the name 'pusher' because the engine pushed the plane along rather than pulling it - this gave the pilot a clearer vision from the cockpit and allowed his guns to fire more effectively rather than firing through the Prop (which i'm convinced attributed to so many guns jamming in aircraft during WW1  - i know they were poorly made but i still think that the device that allowed them to fire through the propellar hampered the machine guns effectiveness)

The DH.2 was equipped to No24 squadron on the 8th Feb 1916 under the command of Major Lanoe Hawker (mentioned on another of my WW1 threads) it was powered by a 100hp Monosoupape engine and was armed with a single Lewis gun which was (at first) mounted on a swivelling pivot but after complaints from some pilots about this guns mounting being 'wobbly' it was abandoned in favour of the gun being fixed in a forward firing position. The DH.2 was fast, manouvorable and rugged and it achived more success against Fokker aircraft than ANY OTHER type during the entire war  

In June 1916 alone No24 squadron's pilots destroyed 17 Fokker aircraft in total followed by 23 in July, 15 in August, 15 in Sept and 15 again in Nov until on November 23rd Major Lanoe Hawker (who himself was an Ace with 7 kills accredited to him) was killed in a very long dogfight against the up-and-coming German pilot Manfred Von Richthofen   whom we all know as the 'Red Baron'  


Here are the DH.2s stats

Type: Scouting Biplane
Crew: 1
Max Speed: 93mph
Ceiling: 4,265ft
Endurance: 2hrs 45mins
Wingspan: 28ft 3in
Length: 25ft 2in
Height: 9ft 6in
Weight: 1421lbs (loaded)
Armament: One forward firing Lewis Gun (.303)

http://www.theaerodrome.com/aircraft/gbritain/airco_dh2.html

http://www.geocities.com/ww1fighters/planes/britain/diagram/images/aircodh2_3.gif


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## kiwimac (Apr 16, 2004)

DH2


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 16, 2004)

Go for it 8) I think they are just as interesting (sometimes more so) than WW2 planes...planes during WW1 were more evenly matched in the air so it REALLY came down to pilot skill.....not so in WW2 really

Did you know that the Tri-plane was originally designed by the British with the Sopwith company? and when the Germans saw the Sopwith Triplane on the battlefield for the first time and how it could easily out-turn their best biplane fighters of the time they designed a 3-wing fighter based on our design...the result was the Fokker Triplane which was a fav of the Red Baron himself (in fact it was the plane he was flying when he was killed)

The only reason he got killed was because he was being cocky...he chased a British pilot straight into Allied territory and flew low enough for an Australian sniper to pick him off....not very wise


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 16, 2004)

In fact if he hadn't been so arrogant (A typical German attribute ) he probably would've survived the war...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 17, 2004)

i wouldn't say they were more interesting.................


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 19, 2004)

I would say they were sometimes...alot of planes during WW2 were just made follwoing designs that were proven in field test etc to be the best they could come up with but alot of the WW1 planes designs (though obviously tested as well) were inovative in aircraft design as planes from that era were still very basic - they were more evenly matched as well so in those days it was mostly down to pilot skill who won a dogfight (unlike WW2) which in IMO makes for more interesting history

and the planes from WW1 had more character if you ask me 8)


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## kiwimac (Apr 19, 2004)

A lot of the planes of WW1 were made to be as muti-functional as possible. The manufacturers were not thinking solely in terms of 'fighters' or 'bombers' (though there were plenty of each).

Indeed, until the advent of the Sopwith Salamander the allies did not have a plane specifically designed for ground-attack. What I like about WW1 is the sheer speed of development from Farnams and Taubes to SE5A's, Camels Fokkers.

Kiwimac


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 19, 2004)

i do like the foker..................


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## plan_D (May 4, 2004)

There is much debate to how the Red Baron died, saying the one of many stories of the Austrialian sniper is just jumping the gun. 
For a start, the Red Baron had been shot up previous, and had a serious head injury which caused him to black out, one story is that he pulled too much G and passed out, causing him to crash after losing control. 

There are many stories on how he was taken down. Not just the Austrialian sniper one. Even some pilots reckon they got the kill. 

It's one of the mysteries which is better left unsolved, all the more interesting that way.


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## Horus (May 6, 2004)

Hi folks!
I'm new here and I just wanted to introduce myself and say hello.
I have a big interest in WW1 aircraft.
My favourite WW1 planes?
The Ilya Mourymettz four engine bomber.


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## plan_D (May 6, 2004)

Welcome to the site. 
That's good for 1915. It'll be interesting to see what you have to say about WW1 aviation.


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## Horus (May 6, 2004)

I think the blokes who went up in those things must have had a lot of courage. No parachute, radio or modern navigational aids, and sometimes the engines fell off!
Some of the planes were fairly colourful too.


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## plan_D (May 6, 2004)

Well you always have to look pretty when going to kill someone...


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## cheddar cheese (May 7, 2004)

nice pics mate, and welcome to the site 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 16, 2004)

he's gon now...............


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## Horus (May 16, 2004)

Naw , I'm still around.
I've been a bit busy doing an update on my own site.
TTFN,

Marcus


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## kiwimac (May 16, 2004)

Welcome Marcus,

Good to have you here. I really like WW1 aircraft. Everyone seemed to have some very interesting (and sometimes wacky) ideas about what planes should and could do.

TTFN

FVS Kiwimac


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## kiwimac (May 16, 2004)

Marcus,

WOW! Those paper planes are AMAZING!

Kiwimac


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## Horus (May 16, 2004)

Many thanks.
I've been up and running just over a year so far.
There are Mosltly WW1, but I do have a couple of WW2 subjects and one Luft'46 aircraft. There are some freebies on the site that anyone can download. These include an A36 Apache and a Swordfish.

TTFN,

Marcus


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## Crazy (May 16, 2004)

Welcome to the site! Your site looks good 8)


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## cheddar cheese (May 18, 2004)

yeah its great 8)


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## Horus (May 18, 2004)

Many thanks for the compliments.
Out of interest, how many of you guys are model builders as well as plane buffs?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 23, 2004)

i make plastic model kits, but not ones like you do............


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## Horus (May 23, 2004)

I've made quite a few WW2 stuff. I scratch built a Mistel 1 a few ywars back.
I started model making when I was five, with a kit bought for me by my Uncle. I have built my fair share of Spitfires Mustangs and Me109's. Many of them were hurridly stuck together in an afternoon and test flown on Mum's clothes line that evening.
I got into paper models after a house move and my Wife's prohibition on any more plastic kits. I got interested in the WW1 stuff all over againafter visiting the Shoreham airshow with my dad about 5 years ago and I've got the bug for string and canvass.
TTFN,

Marcus


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## kiwimac (May 24, 2004)

Trying to discover ways of virtual modelling but as I know nothing about it no-one I ask is helpful I'm at a bit of a dead-end currently.

Kiwimac


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## Horus (May 24, 2004)

There are several 3d programs that you can use for 3d virtual model making.
Rhino 3d (expensive), Pepuraka(Japenese), Metasequoia (shareware) and a few others.
Metasequoia is avaiable from http://www21.ocn.ne.jp/~mizno/main_e.html
and there are tutorials available at http://trlibrary.tripod.com/id49.htm
There is also an English translation of the manual. Well - most of it at: http://www.spies.com/~palevich/3d/metasequoia/
I hope that's helpful.

TTFN<

Marcus


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## BerSerKer (Oct 20, 2004)

Hi!
Some data about first serial heavy bomber IM:
Name: ILYA Muromec
name after ILYA Muromec , ancient hero.
Country: Russian Empire.

First sample: oct. 1913.
load: 1290 kg

Model:Series B (1914)
Maximum range: 650 verst :: 692.9 km
Power Plant: 4x140hp "Argus"
Wings Square: 152,6 m2
Test flights (one of a pilots is Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky(!))
Production: 6

Model:Series V (light) (1914-15)
Power Plant: 4x150hp RB3-6 , or 2x140hp+2x125hp Argus
Production: 22
Empty Weight: ~3000 kg
Max bomb load: ~500kg small bombs (one 410kg experiments)

Model:Series G(1915-18)
Max height: 5200m (oxygen limit) with 1340kg load.
Speed: 137 km/h with 1900kg load.

Model:Series E(1916-17)
Power Plant: 4x220hp Renault
Empty Weight: 4960 kg
Bomb load: 800 kg
Defensive weapons: 8 machine-gun: 2x "Vikkers" with 1200-1500 ammo, 3x "Luis" w/ 940-1700ammo, 3x "Madsen" w/ 750-1000ammo
Production: ~80


pictures was scan from books.


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## Horus (Oct 20, 2004)

Great information. I have a paper model of the Ilya Mourymetz Beh on my site in 1/72 and 1/33 scales.
The direct link to the info is:
http://www.paperwarbirds.com/html/misc/Ilya.htm

There is a review of the kit at:
http://www.paperwarbirds.com/phpbb/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=22


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## KraziKanuK (Feb 8, 2005)

Roy Brown, who was chasing the Baron that day, was going to the aid of his friend, Wop May, a novice combat pilot who went on to be a famous Canadian bush pilot. May got 13 'kills' during WW1.

link to May's adventure that day, http://www.kaisersbunker.com/rfc/rfc15.htm

Brown was born 50km from where I live.

A map of the flight paths. Baron - Red, May - Yellow, Brown - Blue






from http://www.anzacs.net/MvR_English.htm


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## HealzDevo (May 24, 2005)

I know the Sopwith Camel was a good advanced fighter but very tricky to fly.


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## jrk (Aug 6, 2005)

i know roland garros was an early french ace who was shot down and taken prisoner.his morane monoplane crash landed over the german lines and he was captured before he had time to set fire to his plane.the unique thing to his morane was he had his own interrupter mechanism fitted to it.the outcome was the germans examined the device and introduced it to anthony fokker.he made some modifications and voila he was credited with being the genius of the interrupter mechanism.when garros escaped from his prison camp he was immediately back in his squadron and up in the air with 2 hours.several weeks later he was killed in action by an albatross.he was flying against a superior machine and was flying with rusty skills.the speed and manouverability of this unfamilliar fighter to him was to cause his death.in the time of his absense from the skys aircraft became faster more heavily armed and lethal killing machines.


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## Glider (Aug 7, 2005)

I think I am right in saying that Roland Garros didn't have an interrupter gear on his Morane. What he had were thick metal plates so that when the bullet hit the propeller it would deflect off and not destroy the blade. Crude, basic and rough certainly, but it did work.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 7, 2005)

Very Correct!


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## KraziKanuK (Aug 8, 2005)

You can see the deflectors in this pic.


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## jrk (Aug 8, 2005)

ok sorry guys feel free to jump on me for that.


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## jrk (Aug 8, 2005)

heres the actual facts.

Other aircraft designers such as Franz Schneider in Germany and Raymond Saulnier in France were also working on the same idea. In the early months of 1915, the French pilot, Roland Garros, added deflector plates to the blades of the propeller of his Morane-Saulnier. The idea being that these small wedges of toughened steel would divert the passage of those bullets which struck the blades. 

After the Morane-Saulnier that Roland Garros was flying crashed at Courtrai on 19th April, 1915, Anton Fokkerwas able to inspect these deflector blades. Fokker and his designers decided to take it one stage further by developing an interrupter mechanism. A cam was attached to the crankshaft of the engine in line with each propeller blade, when the blade reached a position in which it might be struck by bullets from the machine-gun, the relevant cam actuated a pushrod which, by means of a series of linkages, stopped the gun from firing. When the blade was clear, the linkages retracted, allowing the gun to fire. 


i hope i,ve managed to make ammends for my mistake guys?


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## Glider (Aug 8, 2005)

JRK. Dont take it badly. Everyone on this site makes observations and sometimes you find that a belief that you had was wrong or that you hadn't thought of a particular angle. Certainly its happened to me. That is how you learn.


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## Smokey (Aug 8, 2005)

Here are a few interesting WW1 panes






Hotchkiss 47mm cannon in the nose of a French Tellier flying boat

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-bi.html





Bristol M1 monoplane fighter
http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/bristol.html

Bias against monoplanes due to past wing breakages led to this plane being used for training only



> Although the M.1C had a superior performance to many of the current RFC front line types, it was not used operationally over the Western Front.







Blackburn Kangaroo

Sank one U Boat and damaged several more





B.A.T. FK.23 Bantam
Fighter with the best performance of its time (post war), 1917
http://www.koolhoven.com/history/airplanes/bat/
http://images.airliners.net

Not WW1, but interesting




Vickers 161, 1931

Designed to carry upward firing cannon in cockpit

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Braas/4037.htm


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 8, 2005)

Nice!


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## Glider (Aug 8, 2005)

Interesting that it had an upward firing cannon. Pity we didn't remember the lesson


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## HealzDevo (Mar 28, 2007)

Yes, interesting idea the upward firing canon. Shame probably about the reload time...


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## Gnomey (Mar 28, 2007)

Dead thread....


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