# Vintage Aircraft Crashed



## Admiral Beez (Nov 1, 2019)

I hate it when I see these historic aircraft misused and crashed. The pilots should know better and made their beds, but such a waste of historically important machines.

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## rochie (Nov 1, 2019)

and yet you post videos of the misuse and crashes ?

none of us like to see any aircraft crash but accidents do happen and without pilots like these no one would have the pleasure of seeing historic warbirds flying.

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## Admiral Beez (Nov 1, 2019)

rochie said:


> and yet you post videos of the misuse and crashes ?


It was a conflict to me too. To clarify, I hate it when these warbirds are wasted in such misuse, not if I see it or not.

Mistakes happen indeed, but looping your Spitfire into the ground or inverting your Mosquito at low altitude beyond the Merlin's well known cut out are poor operation, not mistakes. The nosed over Spitfire looks like he leaned on the brakes.


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## pbehn (Nov 1, 2019)

Why not write to the bereaved and really tell them what you think?

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## rochie (Nov 1, 2019)

Admiral Beez said:


> It was a conflict to me too. To clarify, I hate it when these warbirds are wasted in such misuse, not if I see it or not.
> 
> Mistakes happen indeed, but looping your Spitfire into the ground or inverting your Mosquito at low altitude beyond the Merlin's well known cut out are poor operation, not mistakes. The nosed over Spitfire looks like he leaned on the brakes.



must be a terrible burden.
having these poor uneducated pilots killing themselves to your annoyence !

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## Admiral Beez (Nov 1, 2019)

pbehn said:


> Why not write to the bereaved and really tell them what you think?





rochie said:


> must be a terrible burden.


I seem to have triggered you both, and that’s okay. We‘re on the plane crash forum, no one here should be surprised that pilots meeting their demise is a given.

My sadness at seeing these classic warbirds destroyed through apparent negligent operation does not cancel out my sadness at their tragic death and injury. My hope is that other vintage warbird organizations and their pilots see these videos as a reminder to keep both themselves and their aircraft safe.


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## pbehn (Nov 1, 2019)

Admiral Beez said:


> I seem to have triggered you both, and that’s okay. We‘re on the plane crash forum, no one here should be surprised that pilots meeting their demise is a given.
> 
> My sadness at seeing these classic warbirds destroyed through apparent negligent operation does not cancel out my sadness at their tragic death and injury.


The only thing that really triggers me is someone saying I am "triggered". All aeroplanes are just metal and wood and can be replaced. This is not a plane crash forum BTW.




https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/542301dce5274a1317000b69/dft_avsafety_pdf_501355.pdf


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## rochie (Nov 1, 2019)

Admiral Beez said:


> I seem to have triggered you both, and that’s okay. We‘re on the plane crash forum, no one here should be surprised that pilots meeting their demise is a given.
> 
> My sadness at seeing these classic warbirds destroyed through apparent negligent operation does not cancel out my sadness at their tragic death and injury. My hope is that other vintage warbird organizations and their pilots see these videos as a reminder to keep both themselves and their aircraft safe.


Maybe you should contact all warbird operators and point out the error of their ways.

is your arrogance a natural talent or do you practice it ?

can see why you've been banned on other forums

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## Admiral Beez (Nov 1, 2019)

rochie said:


> is your arrogance a natural talent or do you practice it


I suppose one definition of arrogance is not recognizing one’s arrogance, but where am I being arrogant? If I am though I apologize, I saw these vids on aircraft crashes and they just seemed like such needless waste of our historical aircraft.

It would be akin to me taking a museum‘s 1924 Type 35 Bugatti on an exhibition tour and driving it straight into a wall, destroying the priceless car, with myself being killed in the crash. I’d like to think most would mourn the driver more than the car, but St. Peter’s going to kick my ass If he‘s a car fan. We’re allowed to be annoyed and disappointed when historic vehicles are destroyed through the manner of their use, at the same time as mourning their operators.

To the best of my knowledge I’ve only been banned once, from some alternative history forum some years ago. I’d hate to sufficiently offend here to repeat that. Mods, if this thread is too dicey you have my okay to delete it. Anyway, I’ll say no more here other than to state I’ll learn from this one. Apologies again Gents.


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## pbehn (Nov 1, 2019)

Admiral Beez said:


> I suppose one definition of arrogance is not recognizing one’s arrogance, but where am I being arrogant? .


In the original post quote ". The pilots should know better and made their beds" Are you a pilot? What is your position to judge? I have seen 3 people die racing motorcycles, they made a mistake they didnt make a bed or deserve to die. I wrote off a 1 of a 1000 edition motorcycle at the age of 17 and couldnt give a damn, my pillion survived and has had a great life married with children, as did I. A piece of metal doesnt matter a damn compared to a life with enough money you can make another


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## Capt. Vick (Nov 1, 2019)

An OV-1 Mohawk crashed at an airshow in the US today.


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## rochie (Nov 2, 2019)

Capt. Vick said:


> An OV-1 Mohawk crashed at an airshow in the US today.


sad news Jim, everybody ok ?


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## Capt. Vick (Nov 2, 2019)

Pilot died. They believe he was alone.


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## rochie (Nov 2, 2019)

Capt. Vick said:


> Pilot died. They believe he was alone.


very sad news


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## Glider (Nov 2, 2019)

Admiral Beez said:


> I suppose one definition of arrogance is not recognizing one’s arrogance, but where am I being arrogant? If I am though I apologize, I saw these vids on aircraft crashes and they just seemed like such needless waste of our historical aircraft.
> 
> It would be akin to me taking a museum‘s 1924 Type 35 Bugatti on an exhibition tour and driving it straight into a wall, destroying the priceless car, with myself being killed in the crash. I’d like to think most would mourn the driver more than the car, but St. Peter’s going to kick my ass If he‘s a car fan. We’re allowed to be annoyed and disappointed when historic vehicles are destroyed through the manner of their use, at the same time as mourning their operators.



There is a presumption in your statement, that the people who are killed and the aircraft wrecked were done because of incompetence. No doubt in a good number of cases the accident happened because of an error, but an error doesn't mean that they were incompetent. There is a well known phrase 'To err is to be human'. Everyone makes mistakes, you, me, everyone on this forum, and everyone we all know. Are you implying that we are all incompetent, because we make mistakes.

Interestingly the full quote is _To err is human; to forgive, divine. _ Written in 1711 by the English poet Alexander Pope. You may want to work on the second part of the quote

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## Shinpachi (Nov 2, 2019)

Because many Japanese aircraft had been destroyed or taken away when the war was over, Japanese are nervous about flying restored planes. This is not fun at all for many enthusiasts but I believe some of them will be flown in the future when more planes are restored or rebuilt. I think this is simply a question of the number.


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## Marcel (Nov 3, 2019)

One note to the ones concerned ( you guys know who you are):
Guys, please stop being nasty. I agree that the starting post should have been worded better. It also shows some ignorance from the poster. But please give hIm the chance and room to learn from that and improve. We all make mistakes. I don't want you guys following someone else around on the forum posting nasty things. We're not in kindergarten here.

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## Barrett (Nov 7, 2019)

I grew up in the antique & warbird communities and at an early age realized that I knew some Dead Men Flying. Hard to explain--they just had That Look about them, not always evident in actions or attitude. One or two ended up scud running, which was semi typical in our part of the NW. I forget the exact numbers but I was right 4 of 5 or 5 of 6. The exception survived because he stopped flying. (At one point he stopped smoking to support his AT-6 habit!)

Anyway:

With the recent warbird crashes there's the inevitable rush to the political microphone with ignorant/stupid wretches calling for More Regulation. Bagtuano. More regs won't solve anything. Just look at the phone-directory-thick FARs. The unavoidable fact is that airplanes will crash. Period. People will die. Period-period. The galling thing to many of us, particularly among warbirds, is that the US Govt destroyed tens of thousands of them on an industrial scale but sometimes bemoans the scarcity of them. 

Sheesh.

Looking downstream, the limiting factor of flying warbirds is not fatigue life but airframe and engine parts/props. Several years ago every flying B-17 was one wheel crack away from being grounded. Then somebody remembered that P2Vs used the same wheels gofigger. The greater potential threat is suitable fuel. Many owners are feelthy reech and can order new engines & props. They cannot buy a refinery to feed their engines.

Just FWIW.


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