# The Bombing of the Shellhus on March 21, 1945



## Zeke_Freak (Dec 31, 2010)

On March 21, 1945 the allies launched a bombing raid on the Shell Oil building in downtown Copenhagen, then the HQ for the Gestapo, during the German occupation of Denmark.

I was wondering if there was anyone here who was very familiar with this Allied attack?

For those who may not be familiar with the attack, the following is an excellent overview: The Bombing of the Shellhus on March 21, 1945 Note, as the website details, that the Gestapo had Danish prisoners on the top floor of the building to prevent the allies from bombing them. The allies were apparently aware of this.

The reason I ask about this event, is that my grandfather witnessed things first hand, and he has described something to me that I would like to verify from other sources. While he was alive we spoke a number of times about events in Denmark during the occupation. He remembered the Mustang fighters screaming over the buildings, as he put it... so low they seemed to be nearly scraping the tiles off the roof tops. German Bf-109's were hot on their tails. 

Then he also recounted that the allied planes seemed to be trying to skip the bombs down the street, hoping to bounce them off the pavement, into the side of the building. In particular I am hoping that someone here might be able to comment on what my grandfather described, and tell me whether the allies were actually trying to do this, or if maybe it was a matter of coincidence that some bombs appeared to be hitting the streets and then 'bouncing' toward the Shell Hus building.


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A little history about my grandfather, Theodore Nielsen. He was in the Danish army during the actual invasion/occupation of Denmark, and served as one of King Christian X's Royal Guards early in the occupation. The following is his unit, dressed in battle gear and not dress uniforms, as was the custom during times of war.

This is a Danish newspaper clipping from the early 1940's. My grandfather is the guard on the far left. That is the King tipping his hat to them.

Newspaper Clipping, Early 1940's - King Christian X and Guards

By 1943 he had joined the Danich Police force. In 1944 the Germans rounded up the Danish police. After a brief fire fight and stand off, they were ordered to stand down by the King. My grandfather and another officer escaped the round up by climbing to the roof of the police station, and jumping from roof top to roof top. Most of the police were shipped off to Buchenwald concentration camp, including many friends. He spent the next year 'under ground' in Copenhagen, on the run. He had some interesting knowledge of Danish resistance efforts, and some very interesting photographs. Since he knew the prince personally (they had both entered army basic training at the same time) he even spent one night hiding out in the prince's royal residences. He was still on the run when the 'Shell Hus' bombing raid took place.

Leif


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## mhuxt (Dec 31, 2010)

Hi,

Mustangs did indeed escort the Mosquitos on the Shellhaus raid. I've not heard of any 109s having gotten onto their tails - certainly none of the Mosquito crews seem to have reported 109s.

I have a book about Mossies in the Far East intentionally skip-bombing, however as I understand it, the intention in the ETO was to drop the bombs into the side of the building. Inevitably some bounced past / over the target and struck buildings beyond the target. There's a new book on the Amiens raid which plots all the bomb falls. Same thing happened on the early raid on Oslo, I believe.

There's a fellow on The Mosquito Page with a special interest in the Shellhaus raid, will see if I can track him down for you.


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## Zeke_Freak (Dec 31, 2010)

mhuxt - That would be terrific.

I wonder if what he saw were just Mustangs following other Mustangs. But he seemed quite certain he saw German Bf-109s as well, and the planes were certainly flying low enough to see easily. He specifically mentioned that he could see their undersides quite clearly as they flew over. But they were also moving quite fast, so from a ground perspective they weren't in view for long before they were obscured by other buildings.

His is the only account I've ever heard where some bombs were skipping off pavement. So I've often wondered if it was simply a coincidence that a few bombs did this. I actually suggested that to him once, but he was very certain of the experience, and convinced it was intentional.

Though he had some 'inside' info about some of the resistance activity, he was suprised by the raid, so I don't believe it was expected in any way. Maybe by a few of the higher ups in the resistance.

When I was younger I got to go through his old photographs, and he had some very interesting shots that not just anyone would have had in their possession. For instance, resistance fighters, readying their weapons for an operation. A few others that looked like surveillance shots, capturing German activity among the civilian populace. Later on, after he passed away, some of those photos seem to have disappeared. It's only a hunch, but I wonder if he may have destroyed some of them. But, its possible we just missed them, and they may turn up yet.

He had a bunch of pictures from the police 'round up' of collaborators after the German withdrawl. We still have those around. And an old newspaper full of pictures documenting the occupation, up to the end. Hmmm... all this has made me think that I need to document what we have. Maybe there's even some pictures of the Shell Hus raid in the old newspaper I have.

Leif


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## Zeke_Freak (Dec 31, 2010)

I located the Danish newspaper from May 1945. It does indeed have some images from the Shell building bombing. The last pages shows contrasting photos of German troops entering Denmark in 1940, and then leaving Denmark in 1945.

Front Page
Page 38
Page 39
Page 40
Last Page

Leif


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## mhuxt (Dec 31, 2010)

Hi Leif,

Thanks for the pics. The name of the fellow you want is Derek Carter, and he posts fairly regularly in the Forum section of The Mosquito Page. You may want to PM him or simply start an identical thread to this one on the other forum.

One other fellow who sometimes posts there is Robert Kirkpatrick, an American in the RCAF who filmed the raid from the air. He mentions it briefly in his story here:

Wings To Operations

Two Mustangs were lost on the raid, apparently to flak, though I suppose some Luftwaffe fighters may have snuck in un-noticed. I've checked a couple of my books and there's no mention of them - Derek may know more.

One thing that sticks out in my memory of what I've read is that the crews visited the city post-war and, from what I've read, were made welcome despite the tragedy at the school.


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## Njaco (Dec 31, 2010)

There was a member of the forum or somebody who knew somebody that was researching this raid. I keep thinking it was Airframes but I could be mistaken.

Here is a pic I found of the raid.


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## mhuxt (Dec 31, 2010)

I think that photo is from the raid on the prison at Amiens, Feb 18 '44.

Various shots I have lying about are:





















Bob Kirkpatrick's on the left of the last shot.


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## Njaco (Dec 31, 2010)

Thanks Mx, my mistake!

Great pics!

I was right - it was Airframes.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/basic/looking-old-friends-14661.html


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## mhuxt (Dec 31, 2010)

There's some rather stark film footage of the attack and the aftermath here:

Dril Agenten v. 3


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## Airframes (Dec 31, 2010)

Yep, it was me Chris.
I was involved in the creation of a memorial to the crews lost on the raid, and produced a painting, made into limited edition prints, to help raise funds for this. 
Derek carter is a friend who, at the time, was a business colleague based in Denmark and, with his enormous help, over a period of seven years, the research was completed to allow an accurate painting to be produced.
The memorial to the crews took the form of a Mosquito propellor blade, which I was able to source and have donated by the BBMF, and this was flown out to Denmark courtesy of a RDanAF Hercules!
The blade was then used as a master from which to cast a bronze blade, which was mounted above the entrance to the shop at the current Shell House.
On the 50th anniversary of the raid ('Operation Carthage'), 21st March, 1995, at 11.15 hrs, the memorial was unveiled in a dedication ceremony, which I attended, and surviving aircrew, SOE agents and Resistance members were present. My good friend Bob Kirkpatrick was among them, and Bob flew one of two FPU Mosquito BIV srs ii on the raid.
The approach to the target, the only camouflage-painted building in Copenhagen (!), was made across the reservoirs, from a clear area, at below roof-top height, the intention being to 'toss' the delay-fused bombs into the side of the building. Some bombs bounced off the road, and hit the Technical Institute, the large building opposite Shell House.
As is known, the Jeanne d'Arc School was accidentally bombed, after one of the leading Mosquitos struck a lighting pylon in the rail marshalling yards, and crashed into a garage opposite the school. At least one of the following Mossie (there were three waves) bombed on the smoke and flames, thinking this was the target. remember, it was March, hazy, and at roof-top height, and the smoke etc were in direct line with the target.
The children and nuns whom died at the school had taken shelter in the cellars, and drowned when the fire service attended the fire, as the cellars filled with water.
The raid was at the request of the Freedom Council, and was asked for specifically, to prevent the Resistance prisoners on the fifth floor of Shell House from being interrogated under torture, thereby disclosing information which would not only have lead to the arrest and subsequent probable execution of thousand of other patriots, but would have also lead to many thousands of German troops being freed to join the fighting in Germany itself.
Although there was a late intervention by the Luftwaffe (FW190s IIRC), flak from German naval vessels in the harbour accounted for the losses of Mustangs and Mosquitos, one of the former crash landing in a park in Copenhagen, then bursting into flames, killing the pilot.
Sorry this is a very brief overview, but the full account is quite involved and, as mentioned, Derek Carter is 'the man' when it comes to this operation, having spent most of his adult life researching the subject. I have to thank Derek for his assistance and encouragement during the production of the painting, and for hosting me and my then wife during our week in Denmark, when we spent some valuable time with the aircrew and others involved, a memory I will treasure forever.
EDIT: Forgot to add, I was provided with all of the film footage taken on the raid, sent from the IWM, on the proviso it was not shown, loaned etc, on pain of being locked in the Tower of London !
Unfortunately, the strike camera footage only shows rear views of the Danish countryside (at extremely low level), as the camera circuits were on the same switches as the drop tanks. The latter were jettisoned after crossing the Danish coast, and of course the film was exhausted long before the target was reached. The film footage I have, and all that has been shown publiclt, was taken from the two FPU Mosquitos.


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## BikerBabe (Dec 31, 2010)

Hi Leif, and thanks for sharing all this.






I'll be happy to translate whatever I can tomorrow - right now I'm on my way to celebrate New Year's eve with buddy Jørn at his place, and since my alcohol intake will be limited to a couple of glasses of champagne tonight, I'll be fine tomorrow, and thus I'll be able to translate just fine. 

You mention that you've got some photos from the rounding up of the danish police on Sept. 19th, 1944. Now I'm getting very curious, I work at the Police Museum in Copenhagen.
One of my old colleagues, Poul Fjeldgaard (deceased) was one of the many young officers who was captured and sent off to - among other camps - Buchenwald. 
Fortunately he survived the ordeal, and afterwards lived a long, happy life until a couple of years ago where he died at the age of 88.
Do you know if these photos has been published anywhere, or are they unique shots?

Cheers,

Maria - in Denmark. *points* Right there.


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## Airframes (Dec 31, 2010)

Here's a pic of my original painting, which has two small errors, one of which was corrected in the final prints. That was the colour of the 'No Entry' sign on the road alongside Shell House. The other was, there should be three guys in white lab coats, having a crafty smoke on the roof of the tower of the Technical Institute (!), the large building in the foreground, which received some hits by the bombs bounced off the road.
The main aircraft is that flown by Gr.Cpt Bateson and Sq Ldr Ted Sismore, a lovely chap whom I met in Copenhagen. In the background, the smoke from Kleboe's crashed aircraft can be seen. This is the Mossie which hit the lighting gantry, and crashed into the garage opposite the Jeann d' Arc School.
If you need any further details, just ask, as I have the full story, aircraft details, formations etc, plus some photos taken at the 50th Anniversary, in Copenhagen, which include some well-known aircrew, as well as Ole Lippman, the SOE operative, and a former Policeman, a member of the Resistance who escaped from the building during the raid.


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## GrauGeist (Dec 31, 2010)

Your painting is outstanding, Terry!

And thanks for sharing your information with us, Zeke_Freak


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## TheMustangRider (Dec 31, 2010)

Great painting Airframes, you are very talented.


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## Airframes (Dec 31, 2010)

Thanks very much, Dave and TMR.


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## Zeke_Freak (Dec 31, 2010)

Wow. Just wow. This is pretty silly, but I'm actually tearing up a bit as I scan over all of this. I don't think my gramps had any idea so much information existed, so many pictures, even video... and possible connections with people so familiar with the events. I had no idea. He would have loved to have seen all of this. He passed away just 4 years ago, in 2006.

To all of you, thank you so much for all of your posts. I want to take some time this weekend to study all of this much more carefully.


Airframes - thank you so much for shedding so much light on these events for me. I've searched online for details in the past, but never had I imagined there was so much to learn. Your work of art is wonderful.


BikerBabe - I have to say, I am very pleased to make your acquaintance. 

I am leaving to visit my parent in a few hours. This weekend I'm going to try to dig through my grand fathers pictures to see if I can find some of the pictures I recall seeing. Some of the photos he has are ones that have been published. I suspect others have not been published anywhere. Some are shots that feature himself and other officers, on duty. Plus some photos from his days in the army and as a royal guard.

My grandfather's best friend 'Ras' Rassmussen (sp), who was also a police officer, was taken to Buchenwald. He survived the camp, and lived a long life afterward. I have some pictures of him with his dogs (he was a dog handler). His family stayed in Denmark, while my grandfather left the police force in 1949 (took 1 year leave, then quit officially in 1950), and moved his family to Canada. 

Somewhere I have a tape recording of my grandfather recounting many of the events of these times. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to locate it in the last couple of years. My plan was to transcribe our discussions into writing, when I can locate it. But I do still recall many details.

I also know my grandfather was involved in protecting Jewish Danes and even smuggling some from Denmark to Sweden. He was very proud of their efforts. He also knew something first hand of collaborators who were executed by resistance fighters. Unlike other people I know who did not like to speak of WWII, my grandfather was very willing to talk, but he was not untouched by the events. I recall him telling me about the fire fight with the Germans during the police round up. He said that it was the easiest thing to do, to point your gun at another person, and pull the trigger. But tears welled up in his eyes as he said it.

I have so many items here that my grandfather kept, and many I know little about. My mother was born in Copenhagen in 1943, and she is able to roughly translate some things. But not that much, as she been speaking English since they moved to Canada in '49. For instance, I know we have a sort of old 'memorial' book that lists all of the captured Danish Police officers, who survived, who died where. So many died in Buchenwald. There are many little things, booklets, badges, pieces of uniforms, etc.

Here are some shots of my grandfather's police driver's license, his hat, and whistle, which we still have.












I am sorry so much of my post goes off topic of the Shell building attack. 

Leif


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## Airframes (Dec 31, 2010)

Great stuff, and it's a pleasure to help. 
If you would like to see some pictures taken at the 50th Anniversary celebrations, I can put a small article together, along with the information on, and reasons for the raid, and post them here in PDF form. Meanwhile, here's a pic of how the present Shell House looked at around 13.00 hrs, on 21st March, 1995. We'd all just had lunch on the fifth floor - where the cells had been located, holding the resistance men, prisoners of the Gestapo. An eerie feeling, having lunch in what had been a target for RAF Mosquitos, exactly 50 years previously!
The view is of the same frontage as shown in my painting.


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## mhuxt (Jan 1, 2011)

Heya Airframes,

Here's a slightly different edit from the one I posted earlier:






Can you confirm if the smoke on the right is the Shell House, with the smoke on the left possibly from overshoots into the building on the other side of the road?


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## davparlr (Jan 1, 2011)

ZF, your grandfather sounds like a real hero. Hope you can find all the stuff you are looking for and save it.


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## FlexiBull (Jan 1, 2011)

What a very interesting post. I find it amazing that a simple request from Leif can manifest itself in so many connection and such an amazing amount of relevant information.

@ Terry - great talent. Strange thing forums, you just reply to a name not really knowing much about the person behind it.

Very interesting story Leif you have some treasured mementos.


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## BikerBabe (Jan 1, 2011)

Hello again Leif, now I've translated the text on this scan:







Errors (- if any) are mine. 

Text in english:

The at the time of the attack on the Shell House, March 21st, 1945, used crews and Mosquitos.

1st attack wave: From HQ and 21 SQN (7 planes)
GC R.N. Bateson SL E.B. Sismore (RS570 EG-X)
SL A.F. Carlisle FL N.J. Ingram (PZ306 YH-Y)
AVM Basil Embry SL P. Clapham (PZ222 OM-H)
WC P.A. Kleboe FO R.J.W. Hall † (SZ977 YH:T)
SL A.C. Henderson FL W.A.Moore (LR388 YH-F)
FL T.M. Hetherington FL J.K. Bell (HR162 YH-H)
and a bomb-carrying, unarmed Cine Mk. IV Mosquito plane
from FPU (Film Production Unit). This plane was flown by 
FL Moore and carried the mark P barred. 

Second attack wave: From 464 SQN (RAAF). (6 planes)

WC R.W. Iredale FO B.J. Standish (SZ968 SB-X)
FL W.K. Shrimpton FO P.R. Lake (PZ353 SB-G)
FL Thompson SG H.B. Carver (PZ463 SB-J)
FL A.J. Smith FS E.L. Green (PZ309 SB- )
FO R.G. Dawson FO F.T. Murray † (SZ999 SB-P)
FO J.H. Palmer SLT H.H. Becker † (RS609 SB- )

3rd attack wave: From 487 SQN (RNZAF). (7 planes)

WC F.H. Denton FO A.J. Coe (PZ402 EG-X (EG-K?))
FO G.L. Peet FO L.A. Graham (SZ985 EG-M)
FL D.V. Pattison FS F. Pygram † (NT123 EG-Z)
SL W.P. Kemp FL R. Peel (PZ339 EG-T)
FL R.J. Dempsey FS E.J. Paige (PZ462 EG-J)
FL K.L. Greenwood FO Moore (PZ242 EG-P)

and a bomb-carrying, unarmed Cine Mk. IV Mosquito plane
from FPU (Film Production Unit). This plane was flown by
FO Kirkpatrick Underhill.
A few sources states, that the rear Mosquito Mk. IV was flown
by FL K.L. Monahan FL A.W. Dean.

Apart from the two FPU-planes, all of the Mosquitos were of the 
type FB Mk. IV, who – apart from the bomb load, also carried 
4 cannons and 4 machine guns.

Abbreviations used:
AVM = Air Vice Marshal
FO = Flying Officer
GC = Group Captain
PO = Pilot Officer
SL = Squadron Leader
SQN = Squadron
WO = Warrant Officer
FL = Flight Lieutenant
FS = Flight Sergeant
HQ = Headquarter
SG = Sergeant
SLT = Sub Lieutenant
WC = Wing Commander
RAAF = Royal Australian Air Force
RNZAF = Royal New Zealand Air Force

YH = 21 SQN
OM = 107 SQN
SB = 464 SQN
EG = 487 SQN
P barred = ? SQN



Zeke_Freak said:


> Wow. Just wow. This is pretty silly, but I'm actually tearing up a bit as I scan over all of this. I don't think my gramps had any idea so much information existed, so many pictures, even video... and possible connections with people so familiar with the events. I had no idea. He would have loved to have seen all of this. He passed away just 4 years ago, in 2006.
> 
> To all of you, thank you so much for all of your posts. I want to take some time this weekend to study all of this much more carefully.
> 
> ...



...and I am very please to "meet" you online, sir.
Funnily enough, my father's name is also Leif - Leif Andersen, though. Just a funny coincidence. 
And now I'm going to go even more OT. 

I've found two police officers named Rasmus Rasmussen on the Buchenwald Prisoner's List that I've got; Rasmus Bondo Rasmussen and Rasmus Carl Rasmussen. 
"Ras" and "Rasser" is a common danish abbreviation for the name "Rasmus".
One of these gentlemen must've been your father's colleague who survived the KZ Camp.

The danish police officers captured by the germans on sept. 19th, 1944, were first sent off to Neuengamme, and later moved to Stutthof, before being sent off to Buchenwald.
The only reason why so many police officers actually survived, was because their status was changed from ordinary KZ-prisoners, to POWs (- with rights as POWs) due to massive pressure from the danish authorities, and the crazy fact that most were "aryans".

Thus many survived the camps because of the fact that the danish Red Cross were allowed to send them packages with clothes, medicine, cigarettes and food, which were much valued:
The medicine got stolen by the germans to use for their own troops, the cigarettes were used to trade for other items and services and to bribe guards and other prisoners with, and food and clothes - indispensable items in these camps - secured the survival of many prisoners, and not just the police officers.

My colleague Poul Fjeldgaard got ill while being in Buchenwald, he suffered from severe headaches and fever. Some of his colleagues gathered their ration of cigarettes to bribe guards with, and managed to sneak him into another part of the camp, where there was a russian ear/nose/throat specialist imprisoned. The russian diagnosed Poul, and performed a sinus puncture on him with a sharpened motorcycle wheel spoke, thus saving his life for a pack of paté or something like that.
So cigarettes and whatever little food they could gather, often meant the difference between life and death for people in those camps.

Recently, an elderly gentleman - Stephan Erdös - donated 10.000 DKK to the Police Museum in Copenhagen as thanks. He had been a prisoner in Buchenwald as a boy, and the danish police officers had helped him survive by feeding him, taking care of him and looking out for him and hundreds of other children in the camp, by smuggling food into the children's barracks, even though the officers needed the food themselves.

So I've got a healthy, big respect for anyone that survived the KZ-camps.

If you've got some names from the danish resistance fighter groups that your father either were in or worked with, I'll be happy to see if I can find any information on their work and their lives for you.

Your grandfather has got my deepest respect.
Helping people escape to Sweden was very dangerous, because the germans knew that the traffic of smuggling people was going on, so they patrolled the harbours and the strait between Denmark and Sweden - thank God you can get very far with a healthy bribe during wartime, even with the germans back then.  Many were captured by germans who didn't take a bribe, though, and many lost their lives, both jews and resistance fighters, fishermen who sailed people to Sweden - and others.

And being a resistance fighter definitely meant living on borrowed time back then.
Many were captured, "interrogated" by the Gestapo and then executed, so your grandfather must've been both clever and lucky.
I certainly don't blame him from showing his emotions when talking about those dark times in his life - he has seen friends and colleagues getting captured, knowing what that meant: Torture and death.

And executing snitches - well, for many resistance fighters it was a "part of the business", but even today, many old resistance fighters has had a very hard time dealing with the fact that they've killed other people, even though it was to save the lives of others.


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## BikerBabe (Jan 1, 2011)

So I've got a healthy respect for your grandfather, may he rest in peace, God bless him.
Lord knows he has seen enough of war, death and suffering during his years on this planet.

I'll be happy to help with translating documents and articles, if you need it, and I'll see if I can find your grandfather's register card and any other information, at the Police Museum for you, when I get back to work on monday.
Our expert on these matters, Jørgen Aasberg, meets in on tuesday, so I'll talk with him to see what we can dig up for you. 

Happy new year,

Maria.


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## Airframes (Jan 1, 2011)

Excellent info Maria. I'll dig out the names of the Resistance people I met in 1995, one of whom was a Policeman. I was honoured to also meet Ole Lippman and, on the occassion of his 80th birthday, Sven Truelsen , at a private family celebration.


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## TheMustangRider (Jan 1, 2011)

Leif, I really don't have anything to contribute to this interesting discussion but let me congratulate you for the hero you had as your grandfather.
I have the utmost respect for those like your grandfather whom risked their lives to defend the defenseless.
May he rest in peace and God bless his soul.


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## BikerBabe (Jan 1, 2011)

Airframes said:


> Excellent info Maria. I'll dig out the names of the Resistance people I met in 1995, one of whom was a Policeman. I was honoured to also meet Ole Lippman and, on the occassion of his 80th birthday, Sven Truelsen , at a private family celebration.



I've managed to find Ole Lippman in the Danish Resistance Fighters' database at the danish National Museum's Freedom Museum database, but there are three resistance fighters named Svend Truelsen: One in Copenhagen, one in London and one in Bolderslev. Do you happen to know in which part of the country your Svend Truelsen was active?

Ole Lippman's data from the database, hence the repeated titles and work tasks:

Code names: Starch, Sølling.
DoB: April 25th, 1916.
DoD: Sept. 3rd, 2002.

Director, major, anaestethic assistant (sp? title?), major (SOE), leader of the paratroopers, managing director, Copenhagen.

Notes:
01-1945-1945 only mentioned once.
Feb. 10th, 1945: Arrived to Denmark via Sweden.
Replaced Flemming B. Muus as leader of the paratroopers for the remainder of the war. There's no mention of the time period.
Feb. '45: Dropped over Denmark on the start date.
1943: In the beginning active with the military intelligence service.
To England on Aug. 9th, 1944 and back via Sweden in Feb. 1945.

Organisations:
Dansk Samling (Danish Gathering)
Den militære efterretningstjeneste (The Military Intelligence Service)
Frihedsrådet (The Freedom Council)
K-Udvalget (The K-Committee)
SOE - Special Operations Executive.

Activities with the Danish Resistance Fighters:

Administration
Administration - gathering money to buy weapons in Sweden.
Common illegal activities
Common illegal activities, replacing Flemming B. Muus as head of SOE in Denmark.
Other.
Intelligence.
Intelligence - active in the Military Intelligence Service 1943-1944.
Intelligence - co-operated with the Danish Intelligence Office in Stockholm 1943-1944.
Parachute agent.
Parachute agent - replaced Flemming B. Muus.
Parachute agent - leader of the Paratroopers.
Parachute agent - leader of the Paratroopers from Feb. 1945.
Parachute agent - from Feb. 1945 the SOE's danish leader of the Resistance's Command Committee.
Parachute agent - member of the Freedom Council for the SOE.
Parachute agent - Leader of the SOE in Denmark from Feb. 1945 until May 1945. (Didn't get back into Denmark by air, but via Sweden).
Helping escaping resistance fighters.
Courier - buys machine guns in Sweden.
Military group.
Organisation - leader of the SOE from feb. '45.


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## Airframes (Jan 1, 2011)

That's the right stuff on Ole Lippmann, a very courageous man, and a real gentleman.
I'll dig out the info on Svend Truelsen, but he was from Copenhagen, had escaped to London, and was the head of the Intelligence network, working alongside the Government in exile, and the Freedom Council. He was decorated, after the war, by both the british and Danish Governments, as far as I recall. I'm afraid my memory is slacking after almost 16 years!


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## BikerBabe (Jan 1, 2011)

Airframes said:


> That's the right stuff on Ole Lippmann, a very courageous man, and a real gentleman.
> I'll dig out the info on Svend Truelsen, but he was from Copenhagen, had escaped to London, and was the head of the Intelligence network, working alongside the Government in exile, and the Freedom Council. He was decorated, after the war, by both the british and Danish Governments, as far as I recall. I'm afraid my memory is slacking after almost 16 years!



Hi again Terry.

Here's the info that I found on Svend Truelsen:

Code name: David.
DoB: March 23rd, 1915.
DoD: Jan. 21st, 1997.

Lieutenant, secretary (Council of Agriculture), lawyer, High Court lawyer, reserve (eng. word? "reserveofficer"), lieutenant, chief of personnel in "Kødfo" ('can't find anything about "kødfo" online), Copenhagen and Aalborg.
Leader, major, chief, leader of intelligence and espionage.

Notes:
May 1944: Travelled to London in May 1944.
Leader of the military intelligence service, arrived later in London.
Sept. 1944 - Jan. 15th, 1944: Escaped to Sweden at end date.
1943 - May 1945: Had to flee to Sweden in May 1944, after that in London.
1943 - March 21st, 1945: fled to England - date and time not included - and planned the attack on the Shell House on March 21st, at the SOE.

Resistance activities:
Other
Intelligence
Intelligence - chief of The Military Intelligence Service from Aug. 29th, 1943.
Intelligence - rebuilds the entire Military Intelligence Service.
Intelligence - leader of the illegal intelligence service after the escape of the "princes" to Sweden.
Intelligence - leader of the Military Intelligence Service after the dissolution of the General Staff's E-Section on Aug. 29th, 1943, among this the contact to C. C. Scavenius, Klintholm, Møn.
Intelligence - leader of the intelligence work in Denmark, following Otto Kiezner, who had to flee to Sweden.
Intelligence - leader of the Army and Navy Intelligence Service in Denmark from Sept. 1943 until May 1944.
Intelligence - ST managed to build a new and efficient intelligence organization, that reported to "Nielsen Møller" in Stockholm.
Escape aid.
Military group.
Military group - military intelligence service after Aug. 29th, 1943, incl. connection to England.
Organizing.


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 1, 2011)

Airframes said:


> Although there was a late intervention by the Luftwaffe (FW190s IIRC)...



Ah, interesting. It may be that grandfather had mistaken a FW190 with a Bf109. He would have probably noticed the difference between allied and axis aircraft, possibly seeing the underside markings - I know he saw the undersides, but I don't think he was that well versed in specific aircraft identification. 




Airframes said:


> If you would like to see some pictures taken at the 50th Anniversary celebrations, I can put a small article together, along with the information on, and reasons for the raid, and post them here in PDF form.



That would be fantastic!


BikerBabe - Thanks so much for your posts, and so much great information. It turns out that Ras' name as I knew it, wasn't his real name. We always knew him as just 'Ras' (they came to visit us in Canada, and my grandparents and mom had visited with his family whenever they returned to Denmark). And his daughter does go by the last name of 'Rasmussen' (sp) But speaking with my mom just now, she says his real name was something else, and there's some confusion about what it was exactly. After dinner we're going to go through some old pictures and we'll look for his proper name as well. 

We had a book that showed pictures of all of the police who were taken away, and what became of them. But my mom just told me tonight that last year she took it back with her to Denmark, and gave it to some family members (one of whom is a more recently retired police officer) who going to read it, and then donate it to the police museum.

Also, I wanted to clarify that my grandfathers knowledge of resistance activities may have come from his work as a policeman, and not direct involvement with the resistance personally when he was 'under ground'. He often told me that the police were 'split', with some collaborating, and others who were helping the resistance, and that you had to be very careful who you talked to. (Edit - Correction: Now that I think about it, I think maybe he was referring to people in general, and not the police specifically). From reading I've done, I've learned that at least part of reason (if not the primary reason) the police round up occurred was that the Germans suspected they were working against them and conspiring with the resistance. I'm quite sure my grandfather was involved some how, based on his stories, but he was never very specific about his involvement. For instance, he never directly stated that he officially joined the resistance. But he had all of those photos, and stories, which either came from involvement, or maybe from police investigations before the round up. He did admit involvement with helping the smuggling effort. So there are a lot of 'blank pages' for me, and I would love to get some more information about that if possible. But I'm also not expecting anything.

I know he was almost caught once. If I recall correctly, I think he said he was out on the street after a curfew, and stopped by german patrol. They had a gun to his back, and demanded his papers. This was during the time he was on the run. He told me that he thought for sure they were going to shoot him right there. But they ended up letting him go. He was very fortunate. 

Another thing that he related to me that I have never been able to corroborate... according to him, at least some (if not all) of the police rounded up were taken by boat to mainland Germany. There's a story that the skipper of one of these ships was actually ordered to scuddle the vessel, with the prisoners on board. Apparently he ignored that order. I have no other details of this story, but perhaps yourself or someone else might have some more information about this story; if it is true, or how it fits into historical events. For all I know, it could have been a common news story, or even just a rumor.

I will post some more information as I find it. I will be going through pictures shortly to see what I can find.

Leif


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## BikerBabe (Jan 1, 2011)

Zeke_Freak said:


> -cut-
> BikerBabe - Thanks so much for your posts, and so much great information. It turns out that Ras' name as I knew it, wasn't his real name. We always knew him as just 'Ras' (they came to visit us in Canada, and my grandparents and mom had visited with his family whenever they returned to Denmark). And his daughter does go by the last name of 'Rasmussen' (sp) But speaking with my mom just now, she says his real name was something else, and there's some confusion about what it was exactly. After dinner we're going to go through some old pictures and we'll look for his proper name as well.
> 
> We had a book that showed pictures of all of the police who were taken away, and what became of them. But my mom just told me tonight that last year she took it back with her to Denmark, and gave it to some family members (one of whom is a more recently retired police officer) who going to read it, and then donate it to the police museum.
> ...



Hello again Leif, and thanks for the information that you've been providing so far.
You mention that there's a story about the ship that brought a lot of police officers to mainland Germany.

That ship - M/S Cometa - was lying at the wharf in Elsinore, when the german occupying forces seized her.
1689 danish police officers were then brought aboard on Sept. 19, 1944, and sailed to Travemünde in Germany.
The day after, she continued up the river Trave to Lübeck, where the danish police officers were put in the now infamous cattle/cargo cars - 40 of them - on a train that brought them to the KZ-camp Neuengamme.

Poul Fjeldgaard also told me the story about the captain aboard the M/S Cometa, who was ordered to sink the ship mid-sea with all of the prisoners aboard.
He outright refused to do so, and fled as soon as the ship reached Germany.
He later..."disappeared"...in Germany.

About "Operation Möve" - Operation Seagull, not to be confused with the other operation of the same name:
A german refugee, Karl Otto Bakowski, had rented a room in Elsinore, where he managed to discover that the german occupying forces were about to round up the danish police by listening in on the german radio commuications.
He managed to warn people, with the result that most danish police officers managed to escape the germans.
He also managed to gather information on many other of the planned german operations, but he was eventually captured.
Since the germans couldn't prove much, he was sent off to the prisoner camp in Frøslev in southern Jutland, Denmark.
He survived, and later moved home to Germany, where he died in 1965.

On april 9, 1940 on the day of the german occupation of Denmark, it was decided by the danish politicians that the danish police should cooperate with the german forces.

On may 12, 1944, Dr. Werner Best demanded that the danish police should take over the guarding of 57 particular companies and factories.
If this was denied from danish side, the danish police would be reduced to 3000 men. Back then, the danish police force was about 8000 men strong.
The chief of department in the danish foreign ministry, Niels Svenningsen, meant that the demand should be met.
There was a lot of resistance from the various danish police organisations, and it was decided to turn down the "offer". This message was given to Dr. Best on june 6, 1944.
After this, the germans trusted the danish police even less.

It is true that many danish police officers helped or otherwise worked together with the danish resistance fighters, letting people run when they got caught, willfully ignoring evidence and such - but unfortunately a lot also worked together with the germans, selling their own countrymen to the germans, and thus sending people off to a certain and painful death.
You had to be very careful about who you told things, or you might end up getting "picked up" by the Gestapo and interrogated, imprisoned, shot or sent off to a KZ camp.
Even in your own family you couldn't be sure about who you could trust, and who would turn you in; that's how horrible it was back then.

Eventually it was decided from the german side to get rid of most of the danish police - 8000 armed police officers weren't exactly a reassuring thought to the germans, now that the tide was turning against them in late 1944, and so they sent most of the danish police officers off to Buchenwald.

Fortunately, "only" between 61 and 91 officers died in german captivity (the numbers vary in my sources, I'll see if I can find a more exact number) - the first officer to die in german captivity, was an elderly officer, who had a heart attack aboard M/S Cometa, while on the way to Germany.

161 officers died after the war due to untreated diseases, or diseases they've gotten in Buchenwald, or from the strenuous conditions they lived under while in the camp.
The remaining officers (1967 police officers) survived.

About your grandfather:
See what you can find out about him and his life, dig up some data, and I'll see what I can dig up here. 

Cheers,

Maria.


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## mhuxt (Jan 1, 2011)

What a thread!


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 2, 2011)

Thank you BikerBabe; what fantastic information. I am actually quite suprised and relieved at the death toll from Buchenwald. In this book that my family had, each of the officers was pictured, with their name, and some other info including when and where they died. So many in the book had died at Buchenwald. It seemed like many more than the statistics show. Of course, I did not count them. 

Some time ago I heard about the Danish Police Museum. When I get to Denmark, I plan to visit.

My grandfather's full name was Theodor Marinus Nielsen, born March 23, 1919 in Thestrup. I believe he joined the police force in 1943, though it could have been a bit earlier. He was in the army in 1939, and was a Royal Guard before becoming a police officer. 

As for 'Ras', I found that his proper name is 'J. P. Løkkegaard'. I am not sure yet what the J.P. stands for. His daughter's married name is Rasmussen, which is why the confusion. Everyone just called him 'Ras'. I recall my grandpa talking abot how very skinny he was on returning from Buchenwald, like a skeleton with skin. That might be a bit of an exaggeration, but I guess he was very sickly thin.

As for the pictures, I found many of them. But I am still unable to locate a number that I recall quite vividly. For instance, Ras with his police dog. His dog had been credited with saving a number of people in its career. Also, I have not yet found the pictures of the men in civilian clothes and weapons, who my grandfather mentioned were resistance fighters.

Here are some scans I made tonight, of just a few of them:

I am not sure if this first batch were ever published any place. They were mostly taken after the Germans had left Denmark, and the police were at work rounding up collaborators. I know they also had to disarm some Germans who had not left. They had collected a small mountain of German weapons, helmets, uniforms and other stuff they had confiscated. He kept a few things, but lamented that he had not kept more of it. I believe my grandpa said that one of the buildings in the background was a police building. My grandpa appears in all of the photos.

Group Picture of Danish Police
Posing with dark colored police car My grampa is standing at back, far left.
Loaded into light colored car My grampa is in the front passenger, with gun over windshield.
White car #2
White car #3
Posing in regular police uniforms
Hats off group shot My grandpa is back, far left.



This next batch I believe may have been published elsewhere. My grandfather knew the photographer and got a bunch of pictures from him. Many show Danish police working with German troops, I'm guessing between 1943-44 (total guess)? One or two I believe are fairly well known images. For instance, the danish police and german officer questioning a woman because she is wearing a hat that demonstrates support for the allies.

Warning... the some of the following pictures show some injured people and may be disturbing to some.

Picture #1 - Crowds of people
Picture #2 - Police and Germans, crowd control?
Picture #3 - Police and Germans, crowd control?
Picture #4 - Public disturbance?
Picture #5 - More of the same...
Picture #6 - Danish police german officer stop woman wearing objectionable hat
Picture #7 - German, Roughing someone up?
Picture #8 - Carrying injured man
Picture #9 - Man bleeding from the head
Picture #10 - Danish police with injured man

My mom found a few pictures that I haven't seen before, of people hanging out in shacks, in the woods. She seems to think they were taken of my grandfather and others who were in hiding in 1944-45. My grandfather never mentioned them to me, so I have no idea. I might scan these ones later. 

I recall another story you may be familiar with. My grandfather mentioned one man who worked as a gunsmith, and he was also working against the Germans. He said that many Germans came to Denmark on leave, or to rest recover. They often used the services of the gunsmith to have weapons personalized for themselves or as gifts. Apparently a customized luger was a popular gift for German officers. This man would modify the guns to reduce their effectiveness, fail sooner, or even reduce the muzzle size to cause them to blow up in their faces when fired. Again, I have no idea how accurate the story is. It would seem to me that he couldn't do it too often if he didn't want to be caught.

Leif


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 2, 2011)

Airframes, would I be correct if I were to guess that you have at least one model of a Mossie in your house? 

Your painting made me think that, if I should attempt a Mosquito model... maybe I will build it after one of the planes in this raid. But for now, I must focus on projects at hand. 

Leif


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## Airframes (Jan 2, 2011)

This is an excellent thread!
First, Maria, yes, that's the Svend Truelsen I met - good work getting the background.
Zeke, first, any intervention from the Luftwaffe was, as I recall, against the RAF Mustang fighters, after the attack, away from the city. One Mosquito ditched off the coast of Sweden, which might have been due to an FW190, but I'd have to check. The crew of this aircraft got out after ditching, but were lost, and the wreck was discovered in the 1990s.
I'll put together an account of the raid, and the 50th anniversary event, and post it on the forum, possibly under a separate thread if that's OK?
Funnily enough, I have only _one_ model of a Mosquito at present, a late Mark XVI bomber version, but when the Revell 1/32nd scale kit is eventually re-released, I'll be converting one to a FBVI, flown by Bob Kirkpatrick on Christmas Eve, 1944. I also intend to build a 1/48th scale FBVI as the lead aircraft (Bateson/Sismore) on the raid.


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## Njaco (Jan 2, 2011)

Best thread in a while!


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 2, 2011)

Agree - excellent!!!!


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 2, 2011)

I found the picture of 'Ras', with one of his dogs. I believe this is likely an older picture from before the police round up in 1944, as it certainly wasn't taken soon after Ras' return from Buchenwald. So likely either early 40's or late 40's.

Ras trained dogs for police work, and some of his k-9 partners were quite remarkable. One dog, 'Rex', was credited with saving several lives. My mom can't recall which dog it was, but apparently one of them was able to tell whether a person a was dead or alive, and as one story goes, saved someone because they were written off as dead, but the dog grabed them by the wrist, the indication that they were still alive.

His daughter is still in Denmark, and I think I will try to contact her for some better information about Ras and his dogs.






Leif


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## Maximowitz (Jan 2, 2011)

I agree with all here, without doubt an excellent and informative thread.


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## Airframes (Jan 2, 2011)

Hopefully, you will enjoy the attached. I apologise for the format, and the fact that it is mainly concerned with the production, and the background to my painting, but I assembled this a couple of years ago, as a 'legacy' for my daughter, who knows little of my past.
It is rather 'long-winded in parts', but hopefully will give some insight into the operation, and the research undertaken by Derek Carter, which eventually led to the true story of 'Operation Carthage' being revealed.
The photographs included were all taken during the 50th Anniversary Commemoration, and I apologise for the mediocre quality of some, which have been scanned from 'copies of copies' of the original prints.
The intention here is to show the depth of research undertaken by Derek Carter, and the almost unbelievable feat of arms accomplished by all those involved in the attack on the Shell House, and again, I apologise for the fact that it may seem I am 'blowing my own trumpet', as it were. 
The main theme of the story shows how involved Derek's research was, and how important the requirements, and the ultimate attack, actually were - a fact normally only briefly acknowledged, being so late in the war, in most accounts covering this chapter of World War Two.
Rather than 'clutter' this fantastic thread, I've made this in PDF format, for ease of viewing at your leisure.


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 3, 2011)

Airframes said:


> Rather than 'clutter' this fantastic thread, I've made this in PDF format, for ease of viewing at your leisure.



Thank you so much!

Terry, your posts are the heart of this thread. While the PDF is handy, and certainly appreciated, I'd like to point out that there's no possible way your story could be considered 'clutter' to this thread. 

I sat myself down for the last couple of hours and took in every word (I'm a slow reader; deliberately so). It was a fantastic read and I really appreciate you taking the time to share the story of your painting. It also gives some great insights in the raid itself, and the story behind the 50th anniversary commemoration. It's funny how life can sometime be such that one person's idea, shared with others, can grow almost organicly, and suddenly becomes something wonderful that, on our own, we couldn't have imagined.

I love the resulting memorial. Very fitting.

A fantasic story, for a fantastic painting. It was very much appreciated by myself, and I think your daughter will one day appreciate having these words to give her insight into her dad's past. 

One small correction if you're interested, but certainly not something you need bother with... a meer historical correction of the smallest proportions. Technically speaking the Internet was around back then. The term 'Internet' simply refers to the physical infrastructure - the array of interconnected computers. It's official name back then was ARPANET, but it certainly wasn't the well known household resource its become today. It's been around since about 1970, and the first email was sent in something like 1971. It was just the World Wide Web (WWW), a service that uses the Internet (the service we all know love), that didn't exist back in the 70's 80's. It's probably just term confusion, and you probably already knew this, but I thought I would just point it out. Many people either forget, or simply don't realize, that the terms 'Internet' and the 'WWW' don't mean the same thing, and are not interchangable. I'm one of those vastly over rated computer geeks that spent far too much time in college studying computer science and theory. But being that I also have a strong interest in all things historical, I seem to have relished computer history in the same way.


I was pondering something earlier today, and after reading your story, I'm even more curous about this. Just what sort of work was done to gather the Intel needed for this operation. For instance, it was known through intelligence reports that the danish prisoners were being held in cells on the 6th floor. But what it must have taken to have gotten this information! I'm sure it wasn't common for the Gestapo to just set people free who had been held inside, and who could speak first hand about the building and location of prisoners. So I'm guessing that someone had to enter the building specifically with the purpose of obtaining this sort of Intelligence info. Does that level of knowledge about the intelligence gathering specific to this operation actually exist? For instance, I think you mentioned that Derek managed to access some first hand account of intelligence operatives, and official reports. Do you know if theses discussions and the reports actually go into that much detail?

Not that I'm expecting someone to provide this information specificly; I'm just curious about the intelligence gathering end of things. Also, do you know if it was typical in most RAF bombing missions to have that level of intelligence before the mission was undertaken?

Leif


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## ivanotter (Jan 3, 2011)

Hi all,

For once, I can provide some info.

I was born in Denmark, so I have some knowledge on this one:

1) The hat the lady is wearing: That one (I have seen some in my very early childhood) was a knitted cap in the RAF colours, like a RAF Roundel. The Germans didn't like that one.

Also, the situation before the police got arrested was that the police would be accompanied by a German soldier, and i think it was Gestapo or SS, but i am not so sure on that.

After the police got arrested and deported, the HIPO (Hilfspolizei) came into being. Hipo could be seen as wearing SS like uniforms, but typically with officers caps with white covers. 

Those were Danes, btw, and a special nasty breed.

I think you have a pic of one or two of them, but it is difficult to see clearly.

The whole thing got a bit muddled towards the end where the Freekorps Denmark got dissolved and a lot of the personnel got enrolled into Schalburg Corps and some got into the real terror groups (Peter Group, Lorentzen, Schalburg etc).

The remainder got transferred into SS regiment either Nordland or Courland.

My professor in Copenhagen (chemistry) used to do explosives (so the story goes) for the resistence movement and lost a couple of fingers in the process. I do remember his lectures very well: It was not a good lecture unless it would say BANG.

In the very last weeks or days, a lot of the German refugees from East Prussia got transferred to Denmark. My mom (together with her class mates) thought it very funny to go down to the train station to laugh at them. That lasted until she had a gun in her back and was told that this was the last warning. She decided that a good laugh was not worth dying for.

The story goes that my grandfather, an aggressive farmer in Jutland, took offense when the germans digged fox holes in his field. First he let the big bull loose. When that got cleared up, he covered up all the fox holes during the night. After a couple of those "incidents" he was taken to the German commandant who told him that next time they would just shoot him.

Although Denmark got through the occupation very lightly, we must always remember that as the rest of Denmark celebrated, Bornholm got bombed by the Russians. The Russians only moved out in 1946.

I have some books somewhere (probably still in Denmark) and several copies of the illegal newspapers from 1944/45.

I remember that my father complained about the quality of the coal (for the stove) at that time: Carrying 2 buckets of coal in, and 4 buckets of ashes out.

Good luck with your research, Zeke.

I will look around to see what I have.

Ivan


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## ivanotter (Jan 3, 2011)

oops, sorry - regiment Denmark in SS-Panzer grenadier Division Nordland.


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## cherry blossom (Jan 3, 2011)

I decided to clutter the thread with a few more family memories. My relative Fl. Lt. S. J. (Jim) Rattray flew one of the Mustangs. I remember two extra details. 

Firstly, he said that the Mustang pilots were offered a free choice of flying above or below the roof line. He was thankful that he had decided to fly along the streets because another pilot (a friend or perhaps his wingman - I have forgotten and Jim died in 1989) who flew higher was hit by FLAK and killed.

Secondly, he mentioned that after flying over or near the Shellhus, he had flown over Copenhagen harbour. He had the impression that this contained a fair fraction of the remaining German surface fleet. Naturally, these showed their appreciation of the RAF's display of low level flying by firing a salute with all available guns.

I have been trying over the last few days to find which ships were present without success. In May, the cruisers Prinz Eugen and Nürnberg surrendered at Copenhagen but Prinz Eugen only arrived on 20th April. However, Nürnberg seems to have arrived on 27th January. On 13th January, Nürnberg and the minelayer Linz were escorted by the destroyers Riedel and Ihn and torpedo boats T19 and T20 in laying the “Titus” minefield in the Skaggerak when they were attacked by a radar equipped RAF Halifax. Some others of this force may have remained near Copenhagen but the destroyers remained active in convoying ships to and from Norway. Other destroyers active around that area and time include Beitzen and Galster. Of course, a convoy may have been in Copenhagen harbour that day but I have not found any information.

Jim had written a comment in his logbook for the mission “buckets of sweat” (I might be able to get that scanned as his son still has it).


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## Glider (Jan 3, 2011)

You can only admire everyone involved. The resistance, the police who worked for the resistance, the skill of the pilots involved and most importantly the families of those children who were lost in the bombing that followed the accident.

Each and every one a credit to their country and words don't come close.


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## ivanotter (Jan 3, 2011)

That, Glider, is a very very worthy thought.

It is doubtful if any other a/c but the Mosquito could have done it.

Standing at the actual buildig in the middle of Copenhagen and trying to imagine how it was done is mind-boggling.

Thundering in at that speed, trying to identify the right building (and believe me, the buildings are similar there), releasing and getting away is a fantatic effort.

The crash into the school was horrible, but if we try to leave that one out, the operation came off without a hitch. And that is close to a miracle.

Ivan


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## Airframes (Jan 3, 2011)

Some great info there Ivan.
To try to answer some of the questions; the intelligence operation was indeed astounding, and Major Ole Lippmann himself went to great personal risk, especially leaving and returning to Denmark on more than one occassion. The level of involvement was quite complex, and even a couple of days before the raid, photographs of the target area were smuggled out of Denmark, and used in the briefing of the crews, and in particular, by Ted Sismore, the Lead Navigator (the most highly decorated Navigator in the RAF), enabling him to plan the final approach to the target.
On the VHS tape which Derek Carter sent me back in 1994, there were some 'stills', which were copies of some of the ground-level shots taken by Resistance members, at great risk, and Derek has some information regarding this side of the operation. 
Ole Lippman did mention and confirm the overall Intelligence operation to me when I was in Copenhagen, but not in detail.
I think I have the information somewhere in my original notes regarding the German Naval units in the harbour, one of which I feel sure was a cruiser, and they certainly did open up with everything they had, but after the first wave had passed. 
I had originally intended to include the tracer trails in my picture, streaming up and across towards the Mustangs, just visible in the right background, until I checked the info to find there was no flak on the initial passes of the attacking aircraft.
I hope this helps a little, and thank you for the compliments, and for confirming that the previous PDF was not too intrusive. I should have some more photographs, and I think the map showing the approach track of the first wave, which I'll post when I locate them - little blighters are hiding somewhere, instead of being in the correct file!


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## BikerBabe (Jan 3, 2011)

Zeke_Freak said:


> Thank you BikerBabe; what fantastic information. I am actually quite suprised and relieved at the death toll from Buchenwald. In this book that my family had, each of the officers was pictured, with their name, and some other info including when and where they died. So many in the book had died at Buchenwald. It seemed like many more than the statistics show. Of course, I did not count them.
> 
> Some time ago I heard about the Danish Police Museum. When I get to Denmark, I plan to visit.
> 
> ...



Hello again Leif.

About the first batch of photos:
We can't locate the buildings right away, but Frank Bøgh - our photo expert - got me the data on J. P. Løkkegaard:

The initials "J.P." stands for Jørgen Peter; I've got the rest of his data, but of course I've forgotten the note on my desk at the museum. I'll get it tomorrow when I meet in, but I do remember that J. P. Løkkegaard was active - at least for a time - in what was called "Nordre Birk", which is an area/precinct north of Copenhagen, covering Gladsaxe and Lyngby.

The visor cap that Løkkegaard is wearing wasn't used until late '50's - early '60's; it's not a pre-WW2 or wartime period visor cap, as you can see from your own grandfather's cap.

My colleague Finn with whom I'm sharing an office, knew Løkkegaard when he was active in the danish police, but he couldn't tell much about him - I'll see if I can get more out of him about Løkkegaard.

Likewise I asked Frank about the second batch of images, and he told me that all of the images are photos made from a film shot during the war years, it's supposedly pretty famous because it shows a famous incident. I don't know which, but I'll see if I can find out more. So the photos should be widely available and accessible here in Denmark at least, and most likely also on the internet.

About the story of the gunsmith:
I don't know how accurate it is, but I do know that it was common practise in the factories in the occupied areas where prisoners were used as slave labour, that people in some degree sabotaged whatever they were making, by working slowly, filling bombs and grenades with sand so that they wouldn't explode on impact, or removing vital parts, so that the bomb damage would be very limited, or have no effect whatsoever - at the risk of their own lives, of course.

Personally, I tend to think that it might be a tad too risky to sabotage personal firearms as a gunsmith, since the effects of the gunsmith's work would fall back on the gunsmith himself on second or third "unfortunate" incident with malfunctioning weapons, and thus landing him in a very...unfortunate...position with the germans in question.
But hey - people have been known to take greater risks during WW2, than that.


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## BikerBabe (Jan 3, 2011)

An addition to my previous post:
The photo series are from July 6th, 1943, and they show a skirmish between the crowd, danish eastern front volunteers on leave (light uniforms) and Schalburg-men (dark uniforms), while the police is trying to restore order.
The photographer's name is Vagn Hansen.

The photo with the police officer talking with the young girl with the RAF-coloured cap/hat is from the same date, showing a surreal situation:
The SS-soldier to the left couldn't just do what he pleased, he had to get the assistance of a danish police officer to fine the girl for wearing the hat.

Source: Freedom Museum photo collection.


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 3, 2011)

BikerBabe said:


> Hello again Leif.
> 
> About the first batch of photos:
> We can't locate the buildings right away, but Frank Bøgh - our photo expert - got me the data on J. P. Løkkegaard:
> ...



Thank you! That makes sense. It also occurred to me that he was too old in appearance for the picture to be from the 1940's. Today I found another picture of J. P. Løkkegaard ('Ras'), and another dog, and he is shown quite bit younger, and they are more likely from the 1940's. He was close to my grandfather's age, and died just a few years ago, shortly before my grandfather. My grandfather and him kept in touch, and our families visited each other several times over the years. His daughter and my mother are still close, like cousins.





BikerBabe said:


> My colleague Finn with whom I'm sharing an office, knew Løkkegaard when he was active in the danish police, but he couldn't tell much about him - I'll see if I can get more out of him about Løkkegaard.



That would be great, thank you. I'll also send an email to his daughter to see what I can find out.





BikerBabe said:


> Likewise I asked Frank about the second batch of images, and he told me that all of the images are photos made from a film shot during the war years, it's supposedly pretty famous because it shows a famous incident. I don't know which, but I'll see if I can find out more. So the photos should be widely available and accessible here in Denmark at least, and most likely also on the internet.



That is what I thought. I also found some interesting pictures of a ship sinking. Not sure what to make of those. I vaguely recall asking about them in the past, and I think the ship was being scuttled, but not sure why.




BikerBabe said:


> Personally, I tend to think that it might be a tad too risky to sabotage personal firearms as a gunsmith, since the effects of the gunsmith's work would fall back on the gunsmith himself...



Yes, I agree with you. However I also recall him indicating that much of his sabotage was not to injure the shooter, but to reduce the effectiveness of the weapon. Also, he indicated that some weapons were being sent to officers serving on the front (lugers in particular), so it may be that he would escape detection because it would be some time before the luger was discharged, and when it was, it was no where near Denmark. He was also specific that this man owned a much frequented gun shop, so he wasn't a factory worker.

Thank you so much for doing this. I look forward to seeing what you can find, and curious if there is anything specific about my grandfather. For instance, I would love to know when he officially joined the police force; whether it was 1943, or earlier.

Leif


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## BikerBabe (Jan 4, 2011)

Hi again. 

I talked with Jørgen Aasberg today, and we found out that your grandfather started in the danish police at the then academy/school on March 15th, 1943.
He was working in Lyngby from Dec. 1st, 1945, and became part of the "Sorgenfri"-guard - the police guard at Sorgenfri Slot ("slot" = castle).
He must've finished his education as a police officer in 1945-46, because he was tenured (word?) as a police officer in 1946, and must've left Denmark shortly afterwards, because there's no records on him in the police officer register in 1947 or later.
Funnily enough there's no record of him leaving the police either, at least none that we could find right away.

So that's what we could find today, I hope it helps you.

Cheers,

Maria.


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## Airframes (Jan 4, 2011)

Great work Maria !


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 4, 2011)

BikerBabe said:


> Hi again.
> 
> I talked with Jørgen Aasberg today, and we found out that your grandfather started in the danish police at the then academy/school on March 15th, 1943.
> He was working in Lyngby from Dec. 1st, 1945, and became part of the "Sorgenfri"-guard - the police guard at Sorgenfri Slot ("slot" = castle).
> ...



Thank you Maria. That's fantastic. He applied and was granted a one year leave of absense in early 1949, and on March 11, 1949 his travelled with his family to Canada. In 1950 he had to decide if he would be returning or not. They decided to stay in Canada.

I had no idea he was a castle guard after training as a police officer. He served as a danish royal guard prior to becoming a police officer. So I guess that makes sense.

He told me once that immediately after the Germans left, the police force was not particularly picky about who they recruited, and that as a result they later had to stiffen their requirements, and 'comb' through the ranks to see who actually was properly qualified. He qualified, but ultimately wanted to leave Europe after the war, to take his family to a less volatile part of the world, Canada or Australia. I think quite a few people were thinking the same thing back then.

Thanks so much Maria.

Leif


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## BikerBabe (Jan 4, 2011)

Zeke_Freak said:


> Thank you Maria. That's fantastic. He applied and was granted a one year leave of absense in early 1949, and on March 11, 1949 his travelled with his family to Canada. In 1950 he had to decide if he would be returning or not. They decided to stay in Canada.
> 
> I had no idea he was a castle guard after training as a police officer. He served as a danish royal guard prior to becoming a police officer. So I guess that makes sense.
> 
> ...



Hi again Leif - you're quite welcome, it's always fascinating to dig into the old records at the museum, because each record holds a life story. 
Your grandfather must have left the police before '49, because we have no records on him from '46 and on, and we've got all of the personnel files from back then. 

The castle guard duty mainly consists of the police looking after and securing the royal family, making sure that they're safe from unwanted intruders - a "prolonging" of his Royal Guard work, yes. 

I can confirm what you've said about the danish police recruits after the war, and about the "combing" process. 
And I sure a shell don't blame people for wanting to leave Europe back then!
I hope your grandfather had a good life together with his family. 

Cheers,

Maria.


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 5, 2011)

BikerBabe said:


> Your grandfather must have left the police before '49, because we have no records on him from '46 and on, and we've got all of the personnel files from back then.



Since the record don't show him leaving at all, I suspect you may be missing a few records. I actually have a picture of him in uniform taken during that period. I was hoping it might give some more clues. 













I notice in several places that some of his stuff mentions Norde Birk. I think that must have been part of his station? He mentioned it several times as well. He also has a booklet called 'Nordre Birks Garderforening, 19. nov 1941 - 19. nov 1991'.

I also have his police organizer from 1949 (pictured beside his police badge). So I have no doubt that his story about being in the police force until then is accurate.








I also found this booklet entitled 'Kampen Om Amalienborg' subtitle: 19. September 1944. It appears to have actually been printed in 1944 as well. It has pages of both text and pictures inside. I think he was worried he'd lose it, since he stamped his name address on it in a couple of places. He was quite protective of it. I know one of his close friends was shot in the fire fight, and 'Ras' and others were taken away. I think it was just a very traumatic experience for him that day. He felt very lucky to be one of the few to actually be there in the fire fight that got away. 

I am curious though... how it portrays the event, being that the Germans were still there occupying Denmark when this was printed. I must translate it one day, using an online translation service.







Also found this newspaper clipping of our friend 'Ras' and his police dog 'Rex' that I mentioned earlier. I'm not sure what it says.






Now I better stop with the pictures. Thank you Maria. 




BikerBabe said:


> And I sure a shell don't blame people for wanting to leave Europe back then!
> I hope your grandfather had a good life together with his family.



He did Maria. He went on to be a foreman for a big lumber company in Canada. He was always very friendly and personable with people, but he could also be very stern and frank. I think it was his police work that brought out these qualities. He was both feared respected as a foreman. 

Leif


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## BikerBabe (Jan 6, 2011)

Zeke_Freak said:


> Since the record don't show him leaving at all, I suspect you may be missing a few records. I actually have a picture of him in uniform taken during that period. I was hoping it might give some more clues.



Hello again. 

Yup, we've missed out on some records there alright, thanks for the information and the feedback. 

The pink card of your grandfather's is a hunting permit, and the printed text translated into english goes like this:

"Police precinct 2
Litra A No. 59.

HUNTING PERMIT
for the financial year
April 1st, 1947 to March 31st, 1948.

This hunting permit gives permission to
hunt on the sea, fiords and bays, where the hunt is open,
and on one's own land plus
for members of the parish hunting 
association to 
participate 3 times in the
in the parish located 
parish hunting association's
common hunts."



Zeke_Freak said:


> I notice in several places that some of his stuff mentions Norde Birk. I think that must have been part of his station? He mentioned it several times as well. He also has a booklet called 'Nordre Birks Garderforening, 19. nov 1941 - 19. nov 1991'.
> 
> I also have his police organizer from 1949 (pictured beside his police badge). So I have no doubt that his story about being in the police force until then is accurate.



"Nordre Birk" was the name for Police Precinct #2.
The badge is a jacket badge; the original police badge that any officer carried with him looked different.
The jacket badge was sewn onto the uniform jacket over the right breast pocket, as you can probably see on some of the photos you've got.

I'll ask Frank (- that I think I mentioned earlier in this thread) about which kind of badge were in use back then, as I can't quite remember when the danish police changed badges back then, from the old-style badge used in the 1940's, to the more modern "fiver" - named so, because it looked a lot like the danish 5 DKr coin. Both were big, round and silverish. 

About the police organizer: I stand corrected. Thanks. 



Zeke_Freak said:


> I also found this booklet entitled 'Kampen Om Amalienborg' subtitle: 19. September 1944. It appears to have actually been printed in 1944 as well. It has pages of both text and pictures inside. I think he was worried he'd lose it, since he stamped his name address on it in a couple of places. He was quite protective of it. I know one of his close friends was shot in the fire fight, and 'Ras' and others were taken away. I think it was just a very traumatic experience for him that day. He felt very lucky to be one of the few to actually be there in the fire fight that got away.
> 
> I am curious though... how it portrays the event, being that the Germans were still there occupying Denmark when this was printed. I must translate it one day, using an online translation service.



I've got that book as well, and if you've got the patience to use an online translation service, I can recommend the book.
Please fell free to ask if you run into words or sentences that the translation service won't deal with, I'll be happy to help as best as I can.

I agree with you that the book and the experience must have ment a lot to your grandfather. My guess is that it made a deep impression on those police officers that were involved - both for those that escaped, and for those who were captured.



Zeke_Freak said:


> Also found this newspaper clipping of our friend 'Ras' and his police dog 'Rex' that I mentioned earlier. I'm not sure what it says.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The text underneath the photo says:
Police officer Børge Rasmussen with the police dog Rex, 
who tracked down the sex offender.



Zeke_Freak said:


> -cut-
> He did Maria. He went on to be a foreman for a big lumber company in Canada. He was always very friendly and personable with people, but he could also be very stern and frank. I think it was his police work that brought out these qualities. He was both feared respected as a foreman.
> Leif



It's great to hear that he had a good life. 
And judging from my colleagues - both active and retired - people have no doubt that one don't want to mess with those guys. 
Once a police officer, always a police officer. 

Maria.


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 7, 2011)

BikerBabe said:


> The pink card of your grandfather's is a hunting permit, and the printed text translated into english goes like this:
> 
> "Police precinct 2
> Litra A No. 59.
> ...



Ah! Wonderful. Thank you Maria. I tried an online translator service, but suprisingly few words were recognized. Much appreciated.





BikerBabe said:


> The badge is a jacket badge; the original police badge that any officer carried with him looked different.
> The jacket badge was sewn onto the uniform jacket over the right breast pocket, as you can probably see on some of the photos you've got.



Yes, sorry, I should have specified jacket badge. I didn't realize they also had a different badge. So I guess it was like a modern police badge, that they carried loose or in a wallet? I wonder if they were generic, or if they also had a badge number like some modern police.




BikerBabe said:


> I've got that book as well, and if you've got the patience to use an online translation service, I can recommend the book.
> Please fell free to ask if you run into words or sentences that the translation service won't deal with, I'll be happy to help as best as I can.



Thank you Maria. That is a kind offer. Based on my experience with the online translators so far, I think you may be hearing from me at some point. 

(I think I must know more Dansk than the online translator service  )

Leif


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## ivanotter (Jan 8, 2011)

Leif,

Although a bit off on a tangent:

When Denmark got occupied 9 April, early morning, my mom still remembers seeing sme of the columns moving up through Jutland.

When soemof the German soldiers was to billeted at my grandfather's farm, he was just standing at the doorstep. The first one's wanting to gt past, he just hurled down the stairs. After some more of those things, he was threatened with a gun. Then he stopped. PS: My grandfather was a very very stubborn aggressive farmer in Jutland. Not the most easy people in this world.

If yuo look it up, the pamphlet OPROP that the German forces scattered in Copenhagen ws dropped by a collection of He-111 and Ju-52. 

They did not take the Danish forces too serious, after all.

Maria can probably find more pics of the actual occupation.

Good luck,

Yours, 

Ivan


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## Crimea_River (Jan 8, 2011)

cherry blossom said:


> I have been trying over the last few days to find which ships were present without success. In May, the cruisers Prinz Eugen and Nürnberg surrendered at Copenhagen but Prinz Eugen only arrived on 20th April. However, Nürnberg seems to have arrived on 27th January. On 13th January, Nürnberg and the minelayer Linz were escorted by the destroyers Riedel and Ihn and torpedo boats T19 and T20 in laying the “Titus” minefield in the Skaggerak when they were attacked by a radar equipped RAF Halifax. Some others of this force may have remained near Copenhagen but the destroyers remained active in convoying ships to and from Norway. Other destroyers active around that area and time include Beitzen and Galster. Of course, a convoy may have been in Copenhagen harbour that day but I have not found any information.



An Osprey book I have on the Mosquito devotes a chapter to this raid and states that Flak from _Nurnburg_ hit several Mosquitos. In all, 4 Mossies were lost and 2 Mustang III's. No mention is made of German fighter action.


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## Airframes (Jan 8, 2011)

That's correct Andy. I've re-checked my notes, and no Luftwaffe activity took place over or near the city. It _was_ the cruiser 'Nurnberg', and other ships in the harbour, plus flak positions around the area, which put up a barrage after the first wave had passed.
Of the four Mosquitos lost, three were due to flak, the other being Kleboe's aircraft which hit the lighting tower in the marshalling yards. All crews were lost. 
Of the two Mustangs, both from 64 Sqn., Drew's belly landed in the park, but he failed to escape and was killed. The second, also hit by flak, and flown by F/O R. Hamilton, took hits over the city and crash-landed near Tarm. Hamilton was taken prisoner and sent to Stalag Luft 1, Barth.
Three other Mosquitos also sustained damage over the target, but made it back to England, W/Cdr Denton belly landing his, and Bob Kirkpatrick, flying the second FPU aircraft, making an emergency landing at the first airfield he spotted, USAAF base Rackheath,Norfolk, landing without pneumatics, and hence no brakes! 
Flt Lt Dempsey flew 400 miles (664km) on one engine to return safely in his 487 Sqn Mossie.


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 8, 2011)

I have a question, I was hoping Maria or someone else may be able to answer. I think it pertains to this thread, since the Shell building bombing was related directly to the resistance movement.

As I understand it, some Danes were very much against the occupation, and in favor of King Christian X, right from the beginning. Others were collaborating with the German occupiers. But the overall weight of the resistance against the Germans grew as time went on, and by 1943-44 the resistance was much stronger, in terms of the way the average Dane felt about the occupation. For instance, I have a broach of my grandmothers that was worn to show support for the King during the occupation. 

I also just found a book. printed in Copenhagen in 1943, that seems to be making fun of Hitler. There are even cartoons outrightly making fun of Hitler, and threatening revolt. The book is called "Haandbog I Oversvømmelser" ("Handbook in Floods" I think), and the first heading says "Yearbook 1943" (in Danish) and the first chapter heading asks "How can we win peace?". The pages are poorly bound, and uneven. It has a heavy paper cover. I suspect it may have been printed in an inconspicuous way, just because the quality of the book is very low. Yet the author's name is listed clearly, 'Arne Sørensen'.

So my question is... were many books like this published in open even during the occupation? It would seem to me that people were becoming very bold to publish cartoons making fun of Hitler, while German troops still held the country.

I wonder if it would be offensive to scan and post some of the cartoons here? Personally, I think they are historically significant. But I wouldn't want to break any rules or offend anyone. Opinions?

Leif


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## Crimea_River (Jan 8, 2011)

Taken in the context of history, I don't see how it would offend me, especially if it makes fun of Hitler.


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## Airframes (Jan 8, 2011)

Love to see some of them.
There were a number of books, and a weekly newspaper, printed 'underground' by the Resistance and others. The founder of one of Denmark's largest companies, in the graphics/printing industry equipment field, stared by mixing chemicals in his bath at home, in secret, so that copying and printing could be undertaken. All of the publications were, of course, circulated secretly.
The Resistance wasn't just passive though, as a number of key installations, such as docks, power stations, rail lines etc were sabotaged, and I have some footage of at least one target actually being blown up!
The organisation also helped many to escape to Sweden, normally by sea, and often from the quay at the Carlsberg Brewery, and this included allied airmen, in a _very_ risky undertaking.


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 9, 2011)

Here's some scans from the book. Some of the cartoons, plus a couple of pages of text. The book seems to be a compilation of stories by, or about, some various people. I blurred the swastikas, just in case. 

If anyone has any insights into this book, I'd love to know more about it.

Book Cover
Dunkerque, Winston Churchill
Another text page
Hitler at breakfast
The new Mona Lisa
David and Goliath

Leif


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## mhuxt (Jan 9, 2011)

Airframes said:


> Hopefully, you will enjoy the attached. I apologise for the format, and the fact that it is mainly concerned with the production, and the background to my painting, but I assembled this a couple of years ago, as a 'legacy' for my daughter, who knows little of my past.
> It is rather 'long-winded in parts', but hopefully will give some insight into the operation, and the research undertaken by Derek Carter, which eventually led to the true story of 'Operation Carthage' being revealed.
> The photographs included were all taken during the 50th Anniversary Commemoration, and I apologise for the mediocre quality of some, which have been scanned from 'copies of copies' of the original prints.
> The intention here is to show the depth of research undertaken by Derek Carter, and the almost unbelievable feat of arms accomplished by all those involved in the attack on the Shell House, and again, I apologise for the fact that it may seem I am 'blowing my own trumpet', as it were.
> ...




That's a damn fine tale Airframes, thanks for posting it!

<S>


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## ivanotter (Jan 9, 2011)

Zeke,

Well, I think it is difficult to compare Denmark to any of the other occupied nations. Closest is probably Holland.

Remember, Denmark is only 5 million people, tiny, and flat (with the highest peak some 150 m up in the air (sic!).

According to my family who lived there during the occupation, it was very much passive resistence as anything else was not only dangerous but pretty futile.

The Danish government still functioned, even with elections to parliament. However, it quickly became governed by the Director-generals when government went away.

The consensus among government officials was to see if Denmark could go through the war as un-harmed as possible. That was also the reason for the police working together with the occupation forces (in the begining) to stamp out resistence.

There were very few who actively cooperated with the occupation forces.

Remember, the danish-German conflicts go back to Charlemagne (+/- 800 AD). Recent wars: 1847-50 and 1864.

however, i believe the allied started to question the situation even to the point where they considered whether Denmark was going to be "liberated" or "occupied" after the war.

As the German fortunes turned, the resistence grew and was supported by more official actions to the point where Denmark got "really occupied" 1943/4.

If you read more of the resistence story, you wil also see that the communist groups felt a bit left out in weapon distribution. Correct or not, there was a political twist to it as well, trusting the communists or not, and the question of government after the war. Would it be a communist take-over, backed by the red army or a continuation of democracy? Those were key questions at that time.

I have asked my brother in Denmark to go look for the illegal newspapers. He has told me they are sitting in his garage. I will scan and post.

Yours,

Ivan


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 9, 2011)

ivanotter said:


> When Denmark got occupied 9 April, early morning, my mom still remembers seeing sme of the columns moving up through Jutland.
> 
> When soemof the German soldiers was to billeted at my grandfather's farm, he was just standing at the doorstep. The first one's wanting to gt past, he just hurled down the stairs. After some more of those things, he was threatened with a gun. Then he stopped. PS: My grandfather was a very very stubborn aggressive farmer in Jutland. Not the most easy people in this world.



It must have been a very difficult thing for people to accept occupation. Your grandfather got to see the Germans leave again in 1945? If so, he must have been very happy.

I have the one newspaper picture that contrasts the troops entering in 1940, with them leaving in 1945.


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 9, 2011)

ivanotter said:


> Remember, Denmark is only 5 million people, tiny...



It is funny, but we scandinavians have been like that for as long as our culture has existed. Such small nations, but the influence of our people on other nations and cultures is huge. Over here in western Canada it seems that every other person I know has some Danish, Norwegian, or Swedish blood in them (even a few Icelanders). And the ones that don't, come from cultures that were already 'tainted' by us in viking times (French, English, etc). 

Even though my parents met over here, they are both scandinavian; my mother Danish, and my father the son of a Dane Norwegian. So i'm 3/4 Danish 1/4 Norwegian.

It is easy to forget how small Denmark is. And conversely, many Danes don't realize how big some things are. When some relatives wanted to come to western Canada back in 1976, they asked if we could drive to see the Olympics in Montreal. My grandfather told them that they better stop there on the way, since Montreal was probably closer to Denmark than it was to him. 



ivanotter said:


> As the German fortunes turned, the resistence grew and was supported by more official actions to the point where Denmark got "really occupied" 1943/4.
> 
> If you read more of the resistence story, you wil also see that the communist groups felt a bit left out in weapon distribution. Correct or not, there was a political twist to it as well, trusting the communists or not, and the question of government after the war. Would it be a communist take-over, backed by the red army or a continuation of democracy? Those were key questions at that time.



Excellent comments on Denmark's state of affairs during the occupation. It seems very true to what I have heard as well.

Leif


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## ivanotter (Jan 9, 2011)

A bit more;

Towards the end of the occupation, Denmark had +/- 240 illegal newspapers (!), producing 70,000 copies per day.

Yes, My grandfather saw the liberation of Denmark.

The resistence groups were ready to partake in the liberation and the Danish "army" in Sweden was ready (+/- 6,000).

The total of active resistence fighters was +/- 4-5,000 with an additional reserve of 40,000.

However, the liberation of Denmark happened in a way nobody could have predicted:

At about 8:30 pm, the Danish Radio station broadcasting from London (and everybody listened to this, if they possible could) announced: Field Marshall Montegomery's HQ has announced that the German forces in Holland, North west Germany and DENMARK have capitulated.

There was no warning, Everyone got the news at the same time, The King, The SS, Dr. Best (German commandant), resistence movements, everybody.

My mom can remember that some Hungarian troops rushed into their house and started to fiddle with the radio. Insofar as they could not speak Danish the whole thing got into a big confusion before they all got the news.

Denmark got liberated via radio.

Same mood as when the wall went between East and West Germany. happiness and relief really.

However, 
9 April 1940: occupation: 11 danes killed
29 August 1943: 26 danes killed
June 1944 (strike action): 102 danes killed
Liberation: 400 killed.

Mostly because of accidents with weapons, confusion, etc.

Denmark had +/-250,000 German refugees at the end of the occupation. The last was repatriated in 1946.

Either in the days before or shortly after the liberation, my mom was travelling along some remote road on her bicycle, A big lorry passed her and she knew she should not look back, which she did. It was full of dead soldiers.

Apparently, a group of Hungarian SS refused to capitulate, occupied a bunker and had to get killed as they would not surrender.

One of the (few) Danish newspapers aligned with the german occupation forces got visited the same evening by the resistence movement.

The editor had left , but had also left a message: "Please water my plants on the window sill. They are at least innocent".

When the first cabinet was presented to the king, they had dispensation to not dress up in the striped pants (as the resistence members did not have any anyway). And the king was hard on protocol.

Just some more few snippets of info.

Yours,


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 9, 2011)

Thanks Ivanotter; great info! 

My grandfather said they had a small mountain of weapons and things that they had to take away from Germans or collaborating Danes. A big part of their work afterward was gathering up collaborators or Germans who had not left.

Leif


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## ivanotter (Jan 10, 2011)

Anytime Leif,

According to my mom, everybody cheered the police on when they finally got back. Probably one of the few times a police force has been this popular.

It is correct that the amount of illegal weapons, etc, was high. Insofar as Denmark got livberated "by radio", there was no need for the weapons.

I can remember myself (must have been in the 60's/70's) a drive by the police to get all old (and newer) weapons off the street by promising that people would not be prosecuted.

A weapons expert said it was downright scary:

One phoned and said he had 200 kg of explosives in his back garden, which he had. it could have flattened the entire enighborhood.

Some came with live ammunition in brown paper bags, loaded guns with the safety off, etc, etc.

The worst was the 'home made' sten guns. Totally unsafe and more dangerous to the shooter than to the target or even to the handler.

Remember this was a society where guns were totally unheard of. I don't even think the polilce was armed at all in the 30's and 40's. Criminals would not have access to guns. Now this society suddenly got exposed to tons of arms without any knowledge. Of course there would be serious accidents (hence more people killed during the hours of liberation than at any other time).

Yours,


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 10, 2011)

ivanotter said:


> The worst was the 'home made' sten guns. Totally unsafe and more dangerous to the shooter than to the target or even to the handler.



Interesting that you mention a homemade sten. In the photos my grandfather had... the ones I can't find, where the men were readying weapons, while wearing civilian cloths (long coats), and getting into a truck... one of the weapons was a sten. I figured they were resistance fighters, and guessed that the sten was supplied by the British. But maybe it was one of these 'home made' stens you mention.

Leif


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## ivanotter (Jan 10, 2011)

Could vey easily be.

One of the resistence rads was a factory manufacturing guns for the German forces. The goal was to blow it up AND to get hold on the firing pins and trigger mechanisms for their own production.

Imagine the finished product: Trigger and firing pin from a rifle, barrel a steel pipe supplied by the plumber, rifling done in a shed in your garden, ammunition standard british issue. wow!

The 'real' stuff parachuted in was at a premium.

My father was in the 'daddy's army' (became a demolition expert, btw. and, as a kid, I loved it when he took me along for some of his demolitions). Even into the 60's, the variety of weapons in the Home forces was amazing. The homemade stuff was gone, but the rest was from all over. My father had a Swedish Husquarna mashin gun, an American helmet and british webbing. The array of handguns was from good ol' Webley's, mauser, walther's, Colts, all of it.

By and large, those forces were equipped with the flodsam from the war days.

I remember that as a kid I saw him cleaning his handgun: the best way of rinsing the grease off is to take it apart and boil it in a pot for 1/2 hour (!!). Do that with anything else but a Webley and you have a problem.

Among the rifles, I think the only one not there was from outer Mongolia or something. I think I have seen them all.

I will try to scan a couple of pics from some of the books I have here in South Africa for you.

Ivan


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 10, 2011)

I found my audio taped interview with my grandfather. Hurray! 

Was listening to it last night a bit. He mentions that the capitulation occurred like this: May 4th it was announced, and on May 5th it was put into effect in Denmark. He describes that they had one day's notice to put together their cars, weapons, and uniforms. Then on the evening of May 5th, after 8PM, the police began to disarm German troops and round up collaborators. They had to wear armbands to identify themselves as participants in the round up. Anyone not wearing an armband and carrying a gun, was in danger of being shot. Apparently, the disarming and rounding up of Germans and collaborators took 2-3 weeks, most of the month of May. 

He had kind of a funny account to tell. On one occasion, someplace, there was reportedly some people held up in this building with weapons, who were refusing to surrender. The police ordered them to stand down and disarm, but they wouldn't respond. So they began shooting the building, and riddled it entirely with gun fire. Eventually, they ceased fire and went in... only to find the building completely empty! 

Another detail about his escape from the police round up on Sept 19, 1944. Around 4PM, whenever it was the order to stand down came, he said that, knowing they were going to be sent to Germany, him and another officer, made their way into the area where all of the castle staff prepared for work. They took off their police unifroms, and put on some work coveralls. Then they climbed out the window, as I described before.

His recounting of the Shell building bombing raid was far less detailed than he had gone into on other occasions. I was hoping it contained some details I missed, but instead, it seems to be missing the detail we had in other discussions. 

Question about the Shell building bombing though... he was under the impression that hundreds of Germans were killed, and incorrectly that only one Dane was killed (in the building itself). Do we know how many Germans lost their lives? Was there any report from the German side?

Leif


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## Airframes (Jan 10, 2011)

Hi Leif, here's the casualties for the Shell House raid.
Total number killed in Shell House was 72, including 26 Gestapo members and 30 Danish collaborators, the remainder being innocent Danes.
Of the 26 prisoners held on the sixth floor, 18 escaped. Some jumped from windows on the _fifth floor_, and some of these were injured or killed, these being inclued in the total above.
At the Jeanne D'Arc School, 86 children lost their lives, with 67 injured, and 16 adults, including Nuns, also perished, along with 35 injured.
Further fatalities occurred elsewhere in the City as a direct result of the raid, with some possibly injured (perhaps killed) by the bombs which struck the Technical Institute.
It is known that had the air raid alarm been sounded on time, civilian casualties would have been a lot less.
Some info on the first wave attack: As the aircraft spread into attack formation, the bombs were fused, bomb doors opened, and speed increased to 300 mph (483 km/h), and the Mustangs also increased speed and opened out to seek out their targets, flak positions, most of which were unmanned at this time.
On the final run-in, W/Cdr Kleboe's aircraft (Code YH-T) struck a floodlight pylon in the rail marshalling yards, damaging the port wing and engine, and losing the port elevator. The Mosquito went into a vertical dive and at least one bomb fell away, exploding and killing 8 civilians. The aircraft was seen waggling it's wings and trailing smoke, before it struck the road on Fredericksberg Alle, outside a garage opposite the Jeanne D'Arc School, and exploded. The force of the explosion and burning fuel caused a huge pall of black smoke, and a photograph of the scene shows the wreckage burning, with at least one 'live' bomb lying on the road. It was this smoke, of course,which lead to at least one other in the attacking waves to believe this was the target, as the smoke and flames was much larger than that which, at that time, was emanating from Shell House.
The first aircraft to bomb the target was that of GpCpt Bateson and Sqn.Ldr Sismore, in EG-X, with the bombs penetrating the side of the building between the second and third floors, exactly on time at 11.15 hrs.
The second aircraft was flown by Sqn Ldr Carlisle (YH-Y), followed by AVM Embry (in OM-H), and he observed his bombs strike at street level.
Ted Sismore told me of his visit to Copenhagen, along with other aircrew who had taken part in the attack, shortly after the liberation. The crews met some of the parents of the children lost in the raid, who bore no malice or hard feelings, understanding that the fliers had done what was asked of them, and at a loss to their own. The aircrew also had an audience with the King, who presented them with a pair of gold cuff-links each, before being hosted by Carlsberg Brewery.
Hope this helps a bit.
Cheers,
Terry.


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## bobbysocks (Jan 10, 2011)

stenguns were the most easily home manufactered weapons. the design is basic and simple. it fires from an open bolt so the number of internal parts are not near as complicated or numerous. the hard part is getting the right kind of steel to make them. several years ago there were plans on how to make the reciever out of automotive exhaust pipe. while that could/would work...the metal was way too soft and would have been dangerous to be on either end of the barrel. they are fun guns to shoot...with a slow rate of fire for a MG...


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## ivanotter (Jan 11, 2011)

Leif,

Herewith some few ppics for you:

First one: some SS and Danish HIPO's not willing to surrender and had to be killed by the resistance. Notice the peculiar danish steel helmet.

Police being very popular when they came back

Change of guards at the border

The russians on bornholm

Yours,


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## buffnut453 (Jan 11, 2011)

I just finished reading a very thought-provoking book entitled "Seduced by Hitler" which examines the moral choices made by individuals and organisations under Hitler's Nazi dictatorship. I never knew that the Danish Government successfully evacuated almost all Danish Jews, some 8000 in number, to neutral Sweden. I know this isn't specifically related to the thread but there is a resonance with the discussion of other forms of resistance undertaken by the Danes during WWII. Respect!


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## ivanotter (Jan 11, 2011)

Interestnig observation, in terms of forms of resistance.

The Jewish evacuation to Sweden was spectacular insofar as it was a feeling shared by the entire population, that persecution of the Jewish people was "just not on". Everybody helped and very very few got caught.

there is a myth that the king had one of the yellow Jewish stars on his coat in solidarity with the Jewish people. it is not true though.

It is true that the king had his morning ride through Copenhagen and a German soldier asked a dane: "Where are the bodyguards? who is looking after him" and the Dane answered: "we all look after him".

Speaking of individual choice: it is correct that there was a danish SS regiment, staffed by danish officers. 

Some of the these were youngsters looking for adventure, the normal collection of disturbed individuals, but also volunteers who believed in figthing the communist russians.

Hitler's propaganda pertaining to the communists was effective insofar as a range of volunteer SS regiments came from occupied countries (Charlemagne SS from France, etc, etc).

The passive resistance in Denmark was prevalent from the very beginning, but also remember that there is a 'bigger' border between Denmark and Germany: Germanic and Scandinavia.

After all, Charlemagne wanted to occupy Denmark but got defeated and that was the start of it all. Germany and Denmark have only had an ongoing war for 1,200 years.

Yours,


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## Lucky13 (Jan 11, 2011)

Now, _this_ is what I call a thread! Fantastic troops!


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## buffnut453 (Jan 11, 2011)

Ivanotter,

Thanks for the additional insights. "Seduced by Hitler" presents a very nuanced view of why people made the choices that they did. There were ardent Nazis and facists who believed in the final solution, there were ardent Nazis and facists who didn't believe in the final solution (Castro in Spain was an example of the latter), there were ordinary people who used the repressive laws to inform on their neighbours to settle old scores, there were many people who profited from the seizure of Jewish property and goods, there were people who sat back and did nothing, and there were people who resisted to various degrees (ranging from subtle disobedience through to outright armed opposition). There is no one-size fits all and many were culpable of benefitting from the hideous policies of the Nazi party. Perhaps most sickening were the Vichy French leaders who actually implemented their own version of the "Final Solution" before Berlin demanded it. Contrast that with little Hungary which protected its Jewish population and refused all demands to send them East until German troops invaded in 1944 and took over the country. Again, hats off to all who resisted!


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## ivanotter (Jan 11, 2011)

That is also where I think it is very difficult to judge anybody.

The minute we see people as part of a group, on which we can stick labels, instead of unique individuals, we have lost our humanity I think.

"scots are stingy"
"Germans are ..."
"Italians are ...
"English are not good cooks" (well, Ok, that could just be..only joking)

But this is the danger point I believe and that was explored by Hitler, but we find parallels today. It is unfortunately not unique.

HOWEVER, on a more positive note:

If we accept that the conflicts up to 1945 was a continuation of the Charlemagne settlement of Europe (France and Germany in essence), we may also see that WWII settled it once and for all.

HOWEVER, on a negative note: Nobody could believe that WWI was coming on. After all, France was isolated and Germany and Britain were the best of friends (at least until Wilhelm II started to stuff it up). Wilhelm was the grandson of Victoria and The Tsar's cousin.

What could possible go wrong?

The big question is: as much as it is impossible to imagine, could we see another European war? Not outside forces invading Europe, but a war among the European nations? Tomorrow? next year? 10 years from now?

The Europeans of 1900 (also) thought it impossible.

Just to de-rail this thread further


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 11, 2011)

ivanotter said:


> The big question is: as much as it is impossible to imagine, could we see another European war? Not outside forces invading Europe, but a war among the European nations? Tomorrow? next year? 10 years from now?
> 
> The Europeans of 1900 (also) thought it impossible.
> 
> Just to de-rail this thread further



I don't see it happening at least in Western Europe per say (England, France vs German). I however do believe that it is only a matter of time that there is a small regional conflict in Europe, and that would be back in the Balkans. Of course that will draw the majority of European nations into it again, but probably in the form of Peace Keepers.


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## buffnut453 (Jan 11, 2011)

The truly scary thing for me was how readily people sacrificed accepted moral standards under the Nazi regime. There weren't that many Gestapo agents but they successfully harnessed the population's fears so that everyone could be a potential informer. The lack of trust so generated effectively disintegrated society. Could that happen again? I fear it could.


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## ivanotter (Jan 11, 2011)

Adler, Germany vs. france, Britain is nearly too easy (maybe?)

What about Spain vs France because of a Basque uprising? Portugal being pulled in and then Germany because Portugal is owing Germany on some loans?

Britain vs Holland over the remnants of North Sea oil? (remember it was Britain vs Iceland in the 60's/70 over fishing rights)

Balkans could be the powder keg it was in 1914.

Russia stopping the oil transfer to Western Europe because of tarif wranglings with Poland, Ukraine, etc? Germany supporting Ukraine and france supporting Russia? Sounds familiar?

As far-fetched as it is and as "fun" to write, I actually think that it is not un-thinkable.

Comments?

Buff: I spoke to an old lady some years back. She said that her best time was as a teenager in the 1930's in Germany. The freedom, the camps, the goals to achieve, the meaning in life, etc. She also said that as the war progressed, she did see all the other things, but that was "hidden" in the beginning.

She was probably not more Nazi than any other person, but it did give her something that the "old" society couldn't.

The fear came later, I think.

It is correct that it is horrible that the sacrifice of moral values could happen just like that. And be sustained for years. I also fear that it is something that is waiting to rear its ugly head again. 

What examples would you mention?


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 11, 2011)

A relative of mine, through marriage, is of German heritage. He was in the kriegmarines (sp) during WWII. There was a lot of resentment in Germany over post WWI treatment, plus the depression. Early on it was very easy for the average person to get behind Hitler, just based on seeing his government as a form of 'salvation' for Germany. I don't think anyone could deny that WWII stimulated the economies of many nations. People weren't thinking ideology as much as they were thinking about jobs, and food on the table.

Leif


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## BikerBabe (Jan 11, 2011)

Zeke_Freak said:


> A relative of mine, through marriage, is of German heritage. He was in the kriegmarines (sp) during WWII. There was a lot of resentment in Germany over post WWI treatment, plus the depression. Early on it was very easy for the average person to get behind Hitler, just based on seeing his government as a form of 'salvation' for Germany. I don't think anyone could deny that WWII stimulated the economies of many nations. People weren't thinking ideology as much as they were thinking about jobs, and food on the table.
> 
> Leif



...and with the numbers of unemployed germans after WWI, it was incredibly easy for Hitler to get political back-up from the people of Germany.


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## buffnut453 (Jan 11, 2011)

ivanotter said:


> What examples would you mention?



The scary thing about "Seduced by Hitler" is the picture it paints of the corruptibility of the average person. This suggests that similar events could occur anywhere where there is a group who bears a grudge. I'm not suggesting it would be on the same scale as Nazi Germany (ie resulting in a global conflict) but one can imagine scenarios involve the Balkans, the Czech Republic and Slovakia, Russia. Apart from external frictions, there is an equal, if not greater, risk of internal problems within countries, particularly as nationlist groups become ever more atomized and local. One can even imagine separatist groups in America, particularly if current trends of vitriolic political statements continue. How many more incidents like the shocking events in Arizona will it take before something more sinister emerges than the Tea Party or other groups with more extreme agendas?


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## BikerBabe (Jan 11, 2011)

buffnut453 said:


> The scary thing about "Seduced by Hitler" is the picture it paints of the corruptibility of the average person. This suggests that similar events could occur anywhere where there is a group who bears a grudge. I'm not suggesting it would be on the same scale as Nazi Germany (ie resulting in a global conflict) but one can imagine scenarios involve the Balkans, the Czech Republic and Slovakia, Russia. Apart from external frictions, there is an equal, if not greater, risk of internal problems within countries, particularly as nationlist groups become ever more atomized and local. One can even imagine separatist groups in America, particularly if current trends of vitriolic political statements continue. How many more incidents like the shocking events in Arizona will it take before something more sinister emerges than the Tea Party or other groups with more extreme agendas?



...which reminded me of this:

The Third Wave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In other words: As a certain german put it:

“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. 
But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. 
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

~ Hermann Göring.


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## bobbysocks (Jan 11, 2011)

it is the "cult" mentality or seduction performed on a grand scale. most people are only aware of what is immediately around them and if their life situation changes for the better...and they are able to feel better about themselves ...as long as it goes with their moral character...all is good and they will approve. a lot of the stuff hitler did has been brought to light and is a matter of public record NOW...but in those days it was done in utmost secrecy and the spin doctors of propaganda ( who were masters of the art as well ) were able to control what news was told and how it was disseminated. people want to think only about the good intentions not that the person is a monster....especially if that person has done beneficial things for them. its hard to fathom even today how one person could have such a devious, evil, murderous mind....and we have been desensitized to a greater degree then those people back then. by the time reality sets in...its too late. certain people are able to sway masses....thru being charismistic or fame or just knowing what buttons to push.... jim jones of jamestown, charlie manson, the hale bopp bunch....it can be done and it can be done today on a very large scale...it is scarey, very scarey.


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 11, 2011)

ivanotter said:


> It is true that the king had his morning ride through Copenhagen and a German soldier asked a dane: "Where are the bodyguards? who is looking after him" and the Dane answered: "we all look after him".



My grandfather has mentioned frequently about the King's daily morning ride. Since he has often been guarding him, he has some pictures of King Christian X, at least a few on his horse.





ivanotter said:


> Speaking of individual choice: it is correct that there was a danish SS regiment, staffed by danish officers.
> 
> Some of the these were youngsters looking for adventure, the normal collection of disturbed individuals, but also volunteers who believed in figthing the communist russians.




A young man who was the son of some friends of my grandparents was one of these. He joined up and eventually went off to fight for them. At one point he wrote back home and said to his family that it was not like he had thought, and he seemed to regret his choice. Later he was sent home in a box, in dress uniform, shot through the back.

Leif


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 11, 2011)

BikerBabe said:


> ...which reminded me of this:
> 
> The Third Wave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...






buffnut453 said:


> One can even imagine separatist groups in America, particularly if current trends of vitriolic political statements continue. How many more incidents like the shocking events in Arizona will it take before something more sinister emerges than the Tea Party or other groups with more extreme agendas?





Being Canadian, I often think about the differences between Canada and the US. One thing stands out about the US of A. It is a revolutionary government, which is based on guarding the principles that led to its own existence. For instance, the right to own and carry weapons, which is closely integrated into its constitution, unlike some other countries like Canada. So it should be no suprised to know that some 'Americans' harbor revolt against their own government, the very government that protect their rights to do so.

On the other hand, even Canada banned certain groups during WWII, some of the same groups that Hitler and his Nazis persecuted in Germany. I know of at least one case where a group of people (the same people who wore the purple triangle in German concentration camps) was arrested and charged with sedition aginst the Canadian government. The legal charges read "gathering together as a group and reading a book". When asked what book they were charged with reading together as a group, the answer came "the Bible". So Western countries are not always about protecting personal freedoms; despite the fact so many soldiers have died fighting for that freedom.

EDIT: I feel this is a worthwhile discussion, with excellent comments by all. But to some degree I feel uncomfortable speaking much about the politics. Most forums have a 'no politics, no religion' rule. I haven't been here long enough to know all of its rules completely, and I don't want to get such a great thread locked by coming to close to such a discussion. Maybe we can steer this back to talk more about the topic of the thread?

For instance... were there other bombing raids carried out in WWII that were similar to the Shell building situation... where resistance groups were involved maybe? 

Leif


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## ivanotter (Jan 12, 2011)

Maria, that is a scary quote of Goering's!


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## buffnut453 (Jan 12, 2011)

I agree with Leif. Let's get this back on track. Probably the most famous (only?) was the Amiens raid.


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## ivanotter (Jan 12, 2011)

Let's not test the moderators too much, agree.

Those two are the only one's I have have heard of as well.

Was something similar ever attempted in Pacific/China by the USAAF/USN? 

Just to get another view on precision bombing:

This is quoted from "The war of a 100 days" by James Ambrose Brown on the first Allied successful campaign: Somalia and Abyssinia, 1940-41.

This little war was fought primarily with South African troops against Italian forces.

Quote: pg 78:

The story was already legenday. On 14 August 1940, Lt Charles Kearey was ordered to fly spare parts and mechanics to Lokitaung to repair a crashed Battle. He was pilot of a Vickers Valentia, a vintage biplane troop carrier used to convey mail and stores at a comfortable top speed of 90 mph. At Lokitaung an engineer boring for water pointed out an Italian fort only ten miles away in the hills.

"Pity I haven't a bomb to drop on it" Kearey said. "I'll make you one" said Lt Joe Lentzner. Around a core of 380 sticks of dynamite Lentzner packed scrap iron, a sewing machine, a car differential, nuts and bolts, all in a 44-gallon oil drum.

Kearey told the present author: "Lentzner crimpted the detonators into the dynamite with his teeth, removed the door of the valentia and stood the drum in the aperture. We put down mattresses to protect the bombadiers on the run-up to the target and took off in the dark, heading east for lake Rudolph. After circling for about twenty minutes until it grew light I told lentzner to stand by. I was starting my run-up right down on the tree tops and opened the valentia fullout. Straight at the fort and about 60 seconds away I shouted to Lentzner to light the 60-second fuse"

In the dawn light the towers of the fort twinkled with gunfire. Lt oscar Coetzee, along for the ride, was hit in the foot. Blood ran dwon Kearey's forehead from a gash from the splintering instrument panel.

"We were below the fort walls. As we came in with the fuse burning, I pulled the valentia up and over the courtyard at about a hundred feet. it was packed with sleeping soldiers. Lentzner and helpers yelled they couldn't get the drum out so I threw her on her side and out it tumbled. The blast lifted us with a tremendous jolt. I looked back to see a column of black smoke".

Back at Lokitaung, Kearey could not conceal the 93 hits on the Valentia's wood-and-fabtric body or the wounds to his crew. A Rome Radio broadcast amplified the old valentia into a squadron of RAF bombers attacking the fort and beaten off. By the time Moorehead heard of the legendary version six months later, the story concluded that the 'entire garrison' - over fifty men - was found dead in the abandoned fort by our troops"

No decorations were awarded for this exploit. It was 'severe reprimands' all round for the 'bombing crew' of Kearey's now legendary adventrure.
Quote end.

Now, that is an un-usual role for a Valentia and shows either brilliance or something else.

Thought this would enlighten your day, all.

Ivan.


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## Njaco (Jan 12, 2011)

Zeke, it is 'no politics, no religion' here as well but don't worry - its all good.


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## BikerBabe (Jan 12, 2011)

Zeke_Freak said:


> My grandfather has mentioned frequently about the King's daily morning ride. Since he has often been guarding him, he has some pictures of King Christian X, at least a few on his horse.
> 
> 
> A young man who was the son of some friends of my grandparents was one of these. He joined up and eventually went off to fight for them. At one point he wrote back home and said to his family that it was not like he had thought, and he seemed to regret his choice. Later he was sent home in a box, in dress uniform, shot through the back.
> ...



Hi guys.

Here's a video of the king on his daily morning ride, and - later in the video - together with his son, Frederik, and his children; among them our present queen, Margrethe II of Denmark, as a baby. 


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuTtxvDWiqU_


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 12, 2011)

BikerBabe said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> Here's a video of the king on his daily morning ride, and - later in the video - together with his son, Frederik, and his cildren; among them our present queen, Margrethe II of Denmark, as a baby.
> 
> ...




That's fantastic Maria! Thank you for sharing this. My mom will be very happy to see this as well. She was born in Copenhagen in 1944.

Very neat how everyone takes off their hat to the King.

I learned something new about the newspaper image I have of my grandfather guarding as the King Queen walk past... on my audio tape of my grandfather, he says that the King was on his way to see the present queen, Margrethe II of Denmark, when she was first born, and to congratulate his son on her birth.

Maria, I know I ask so much of you already, but can you translate the caption of the clipping? I am curious about it.







Leif


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## BikerBabe (Jan 12, 2011)

Zeke_Freak said:


> That's fantastic Maria! Thank you for sharing this. My mom will be very happy to see this as well. She was born in Copenhagen in 1944.
> 
> Very neat how everyone takes off their hat to the King.
> 
> ...



Of course Leif, here's the text in english:

The king [- also known as The Riding King] and the queen on their way, crossing the square at Amalienborg [The royal residence in Copenhagen], heading to the mansion of the Crown Prince, to pay a visit to Crown Princess Ingrid.

-------------------------







A photo of King Christian on his birthday on Sept. 25, 1940.
Please note that there is no Royal Guard following His Majesty, and that there is no security or police officers present. It wasn't necessary.  
The daily horse ride through Copenhagen very quickly became the king's own private little rebellion against the germans, who didn't like this. But they didn't dare to touch the king or challenge his status and power in any way, so he was allowed his daily horse ride.

On the king's 72nd birthday, Adolf Hitler sent the king a congratulatory telegramme, and the king sent a very short and curt: "Dem Reichskanzler Adolf Hitler. Besten Dank für die Glückwünsche. Christian Rex". Translation: "To Reichskanzler Adolf Hitler. Thank you very much for the greeting. Christian Rex."
A very short letter of thank you was - back then at least - considered inappropriate and very close to an insult, so Herr Hitler became pi**ed off to such a degree that he ended up demanding a more german-friendly danish government.
The diplomatic liaisons got very busy with sending apologies for fear of a complete german take-over of Denmark, and the solution was that a new, danish government was selected.
That only lasted a few months, then the germans took over anyway. 

Another thing was that it became very popular to buy and wear a King's Badge/Pin during the german occupation of Denmark.
It wasn't illegal in any way, but it was a tiny rebellion against the rule and rules of the german occupying forces, and it also became a way of showing others where your allegiance lay.
At the same time you supported King Christian X's Foundation, that supports the research in, prevention of and fighting of diseases. 
1,178,534 badges and pins were sold - in a population of roughly 5 million people. 






Right: The buttonhole version of the King's Badge for gentlemen, and at left, the ladies' version, both are silver. A gold badge were also available.



-------------------------

Here's a little about King Christian X and his son, Frederik:






King Christian X and his queen, Alexandrine, with their two sons, Crown Prince Frederik (later King Frederik IX) and Prince Knud.







King Frederik IX [known as The Sailor King] with his queen, Ingrid [- a very strong and strong-willed lady!], and their three daughters, princess Margrethe (standing behind her father), princess Elisabeth (standing between the parents), and princess Benedikte (standing in front of Elisabeth).
Because King Frederik didn't have any sons, the Act of Succession had to be changed, so Margrethe could become queen. The law was changed in 1953, and Margrethe became queen in 1972, when her father died.

A wee funny story, told to me by an old colleague - let's call him X - who in his younger days helped guard the royal residence. This happened one of the first times:
One very early saturday morning, a _very _drunk gentleman came riding - or attempting to ride - his bicycle, came tumbling up the alley to the royal residence.
The gentleman ended up tumbling headlong into the nearest ditch, and X ran over to see if he could help the poor bicycle rider.
He helped the man get back up, brushed him off and picked up his bicycle, when he realised that it was King Frederik. "Your Majesty!" he stammered, are you alright?"
King Frederik laughed, "Yes, yes officer, I'm perfectly fine!" 
X breathed a huge sigh of relief!
"But!" His Majesty continued, "can we agree on one thing, officer?"
X nodded eagerly.
"...can we agree that we won't tell a thing to Ingrid???"
X nodded again, now quite baffled, and the king wished X a good morning, then walked gingerly and wobbling back home to the castle, dragging his bicycle with him.
Y'see, what X didn't know was that King Frederik loved to spend a friday night at the local pub with his mates, and he did so regularly - and his wife, Queen Ingrid, wasn't very fond of it, to put it mildly!


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## Zeke_Freak (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks Maria. That's some great info. The story with King Fredrik is quite amusing.

My grandmother must been in on that lil rebellion you spoke of. She gave me this: (sorry for the poor picture)






Leif


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## Airframes (Jan 12, 2011)

Great info Maria! Just reinforced why I like Denmark and the Danes so much !


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## ivanotter (Jan 13, 2011)

Maria, thansk for showing us those pins. I just realised that my mom still has hers somewhere in the house.

Yours,


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## au-yt (Oct 10, 2011)

Wow what an amazing thread with some fantastic stories and pictures... just wow!
I am a bit of a late commer to this thread.
I found the thread doing some initial reasurch on Uncle whom served with the 64 RAF Squadron and took part in the Bombing of the Shellhus on March 21, 1945. He was one of the pilots who, from what I have been able to find was the first wave attack. He Survived the raid but ran out of fuel and crashed short of the runway.
It was great reading some of the stories from behind the scenes and what a Shame I wasnt aware of the 50 anniversary.

Graeme


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## Njaco (Oct 10, 2011)

Welcome to the forum Graeme!


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## Airframes (Oct 10, 2011)

Welcome Graeme. What was your Uncle's name?


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## au-yt (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks for the Greatings Guys
I must also appolagise for the slow reply. I have had difficulty logging in.

My Uncles Name was Neil White or as he was known during the war Snowy.

I have attached a PDF copy of a news article written about Neil buy his then ( now vail) CEO Vic Cannon. Hopefully it is readable.

Regards 

Graeme


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## Airframes (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks Graeme, interesting read.


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## au-yt (Oct 14, 2011)

Thanks Airframes

has anyone managed to get a full copy of this doco.
Pictures & Photos from The Shell House Raid - IMDb
Regards
Graeme


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## Airframes (Oct 14, 2011)

Can't say I've seen that, but I have a video copy of all of the footage taken at the departure, the crossing of the North Sea, and during the raid. Only parts of this have ever been screened before.


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## au-yt (Oct 15, 2011)

Hi Airframes

Thats amazing, am I correct in thinking that the fottage came from the the Mosquito aircraft that were fitted with cameras?
I would love to see the footage, My main interest is obviously the footage that includes any mustangs. My uncle did tell me about the difficulty with visability on the way over caused by the salt spray on the screens.
I know 64th Squadron lettering was SH... Vic Cannons airft was SH..T no guesses what they used to add to it. Sadly I dont know what letter Neils was.

Regards
Graeme


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## Airframes (Oct 15, 2011)

Hi Graeme. The footage was taken from the two FPU MkIV series ii Mosquitos on the raid, both of which also carried bombs. The strike cameras on the Mosquito FBVIs were wired into the same circuit as the drop tanks. When the tanks were jettisoned at the Danish coast, this activated the cameras, resulting in some splendid, aft-looking, low-level footage if the Danish countryside, but no strike footage!!
As far as I remember, there is no footage of the Mustangs, but on the same VHS tape, there is a 1974 documentary which shows a very small clip.
I'll check my notes, as I should have the code letter and serial number for all the Mustangs from 64 Sqn which took part.
There is a possibility that I could loan you the tape, but there are official Crown Copyright restrictions which MUST be adhered to - send me a PM.
Cheers,
Terry.


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## jennygreen (Apr 27, 2012)

[]Hi, I am not too sure if I am doing this correctly as I have never done this before. My dad was in the Danish underground and he was captured I think because the Gastapo came to his house and found his father smoking American cigarettes. They eventually found dad (need to check with mum where - I thought he was in the countryside or something like that). He was housed in the Shell building and I believe that each day they were moved up a cell until they got to either number 1 or number 0 and then they were executed. My dad I believe was in cell number 5 when peace was declared! Does anyone know of any of these kind of things or where I should look. thanks, Jenny
[/B][/COLOR]


UOTE=Zeke_Freak;751693]Wow. Just wow. This is pretty silly, but I'm actually tearing up a bit as I scan over all of this. I don't think my gramps had any idea so much information existed, so many pictures, even video... and possible connections with people so familiar with the events. I had no idea. He would have loved to have seen all of this. He passed away just 4 years ago, in 2006.

To all of you, thank you so much for all of your posts. I want to take some time this weekend to study all of this much more carefully.


Airframes - thank you so much for shedding so much light on these events for me. I've searched online for details in the past, but never had I imagined there was so much to learn. Your work of art is wonderful.


BikerBabe - I have to say, I am very pleased to make your acquaintance. 

I am leaving to visit my parent in a few hours. This weekend I'm going to try to dig through my grand fathers pictures to see if I can find some of the pictures I recall seeing. Some of the photos he has are ones that have been published. I suspect others have not been published anywhere. Some are shots that feature himself and other officers, on duty. Plus some photos from his days in the army and as a royal guard.

My grandfather's best friend 'Ras' Rassmussen (sp), who was also a police officer, was taken to Buchenwald. He survived the camp, and lived a long life afterward. I have some pictures of him with his dogs (he was a dog handler). His family stayed in Denmark, while my grandfather left the police force in 1949 (took 1 year leave, then quit officially in 1950), and moved his family to Canada. 

Somewhere I have a tape recording of my grandfather recounting many of the events of these times. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to locate it in the last couple of years. My plan was to transcribe our discussions into writing, when I can locate it. But I do still recall many details.

I also know my grandfather was involved in protecting Jewish Danes and even smuggling some from Denmark to Sweden. He was very proud of their efforts. He also knew something first hand of collaborators who were executed by resistance fighters. Unlike other people I know who did not like to speak of WWII, my grandfather was very willing to talk, but he was not untouched by the events. I recall him telling me about the fire fight with the Germans during the police round up. He said that it was the easiest thing to do, to point your gun at another person, and pull the trigger. But tears welled up in his eyes as he said it.

I have so many items here that my grandfather kept, and many I know little about. My mother was born in Copenhagen in 1943, and she is able to roughly translate some things. But not that much, as she been speaking English since they moved to Canada in '49. For instance, I know we have a sort of old 'memorial' book that lists all of the captured Danish Police officers, who survived, who died where. So many died in Buchenwald. There are many little things, booklets, badges, pieces of uniforms, etc.

Here are some shots of my grandfather's police driver's license, his hat, and whistle, which we still have.













I am sorry so much of my post goes off topic of the Shell building attack. 

Leif[/QUOTE]


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## Crimea_River (Apr 27, 2012)

Welcome aboard and thanks for posting this. Hope you'll get some more info to fill in some gaps in your grandfather's already great story.


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## Njaco (Apr 28, 2012)

Welcome aboard Jenny. I'm sure that Maria (BikerBabe) will be very much interested in talking to you. She works at a Police Musuem in Denamark so your pics of police officers will interest her. I think she also has more on Ras Rassmussen, I believe.


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## Airframes (Apr 28, 2012)

Welcome Jenny, and glad to have been able to help.


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## Wayne White (Aug 11, 2014)

Have just joined and reading your articles, my Dad was in the mustang escort squadron, Neil White, will check his log book, think he was squadron leader at the time.


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## Crimea_River (Aug 11, 2014)

Another Wayne from Oz. I though you guys were all named Bruce! Welcome aboard!

Do check the log book and if there is any info you can share there'd be a lot of interest.


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## Lucky13 (Aug 11, 2014)

Twins??


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## wuzak (Nov 6, 2015)

au-yt said:


> Thanks Airframes
> 
> has anyone managed to get a full copy of this doco.
> 
> ...


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## wuzak (Nov 6, 2015)

Zeke_Freak said:


> For instance... were there other bombing raids carried out in WWII that were similar to the Shell building situation... where resistance groups were involved maybe?



Similar attacks


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Mosquito_raid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aarhus_Air_Raid

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## cherry blossom (Apr 11, 2018)

cherry blossom said:


> I decided to clutter the thread with a few more family memories. My relative Fl. Lt. S. J. (Jim) Rattray flew one of the Mustangs. I remember two extra details.
> 
> Firstly, he said that the Mustang pilots were offered a free choice of flying above or below the roof line. He was thankful that he had decided to fly along the streets because another pilot (a friend or perhaps his wingman - I have forgotten and Jim died in 1989) who flew higher was hit by FLAK and killed.
> 
> ...


This is a very old thread but my cousin Andrew retired last year and after doing various unimportant things such as visiting Australia was persuaded to search for his father's log books. He has found the last two covering the period 16 March 1942 to 9 March 1946 and thus I can attach Andrew's scan mentioning the Shellhus mission. My memory from long before when we had talked was slightly faulty and Jim had written bags of twitch rather than buckets of sweat.

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