# A1 skyraider



## LaggyMcLagLag (Jun 30, 2007)

The A1 Skyraider was an Interesting plane and one of the last single prop U.S. millitary aircraft. It had many advantages and disadvantages. I like the skyrader personally, but do you think it was good or crap?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 30, 2007)

It was a great aircraft, there are many threads on here covering its history. As far as the last single engine "prop" aircraft - incorrect. Maybe the last single engine recip aircraft.?!? Even that's incorrect because the USAF still operates T-41s and the military version of the Cessna 150 - the T-51. The Texan T-6 II is a single engine "prop" aircraft.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 30, 2007)

Skyraider was a great aircraft, just read up on its involvment in Vietnam.


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## Heinz (Jul 1, 2007)

I reckon its good looking too....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 1, 2007)

You have never seen a Skyraider Heinz?


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## evangilder (Jul 1, 2007)

It's a brute, and very effective for it's time. It carried the same weight of ordinance as a B-17.


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## trackend (Jul 1, 2007)

I agree guys It (IMO) is not much of a looker but a very powerful machine


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## mosquitoman (Jul 1, 2007)

Is that the Skyraider that is normally flying at Flying Legends?


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## Heinz (Jul 1, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> You have never seen a Skyraider Heinz?
> 
> ]


I have seen them 

I like odd looking planes this is one of them. Just such a 'brute' like Eric said.

8)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 1, 2007)

Oh I thought you had not seen one the way you said you reckon..

My bad.


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## Heinz (Jul 1, 2007)

all good,

actually in the movie ' The Longest Day ' theres a fly over as the boats are crossing the channel. I swear they look like Skyraiders.


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## evangilder (Jul 1, 2007)

The pictures of the one I posted was in "We Were Soldiers" and "Flight of the Intruder".


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## trackend (Jul 1, 2007)

mosquitoman said:


> Is that the Skyraider that is normally flying at Flying Legends?


Yes mossie 402


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## renrich (Jul 1, 2007)

The Able Dog was a fine airplane and because of those giant dive brakes, it was very maneverable and a difficult opponent in a dogfight.


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## evangilder (Jul 1, 2007)

The Skyraider was never intended to dogfight. It was built as an attack aircraft, hence the "A" designation. Only certain models had those huge speed brakes. They are not dive brakes, they are speed brakes (ask Skyraider Bob, he knows. ).


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## ToughOmbre (Jul 1, 2007)

Grunts loved the "Spad" in Viet Nam. Could carry lots of ordnance and linger forever. A great attack aircraft.


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## Graeme (Jul 1, 2007)

One of the most befitting tributes paid to the Skyraider appeared in an article of the Virginian-Pilot on June 22, 1967, by Robert C. Miller:

* "SPAD" ONE OF TAXPAYERS'
NEW FRIENDS IN VIETNAM*

The Fischer and Myers famous 'rescue' of 1966 will also immortalise the Skyraider.


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## renrich (Jul 1, 2007)

I never said the AD was intended to be a dogfighter. Even I am not that stupid. I quote Ralph Linnekin in "Eighty Knots to Mach 2" At this time he was flying Bearcats. " For single engine aircraft, those AD-2s were large.....they were also light and surprisingly agile."" One sunny afternoon I was leading the second division of a flight of F8F-1Bs. The sky was suddenly filled with big blue airplanes....eight shiny new Skyraiders were swarming all over us." After the shock of that surprise attack, a melee ensued. I accelerated after an airplane that had just made a SUCCESSFUL run on me. I was closing nicely, almost in gunsight tracking range, when he pulled a hard turn--just what he was supposed to do. I followed suit, confident as always that my trusty Bearcat could out turn anything in the sky." "Then I saw a glimmer of red, followed by a lot of red, and found myself looking at the plan view of a big airplane that seemed to have come to a complete stop in midair. Closing like hell, all I could do was to level my wings and fly over him;collision avoidance was paramount. I badly overshot my intended target. Once past him, I rolled into a steep bank and pulled nearly 8 gs(limit load in the Bearcat) too late! Over the radio I heard rat tat tat, you're dead. My opponent had reversed his turn and slid on to my tail in a classic 6 o clock firing position." " What had made the difference in the maneuver was the huge barn door like DIVE BRAKES on the sides and bottom of the aft fuselage of the AD." The undersides of the dive brakes were painted red in those days apparently. I don't think the A4 was designed to be a dogfighter either but under certain circumstance it could be a tough opponent.


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## Lucky13 (Jul 1, 2007)

I read somewhere, can't for my life remember where, about a radio communication between Marines I think in Korea and a Skyraider. When the Spad pilot had finished telling what they've loaded up, the guy in the other end asked.."what the hell are you, destroyers?!"


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## evangilder (Jul 1, 2007)

Sorry, but I will take the word of a Skyraider pilot over the word of a Bearcat pilot. Skyraider Bob himself told me that they were NOT dive brakes, they were speed brakes.


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## Graeme (Jul 1, 2007)

evangilder said:


> Sorry, but I will take the word of a Skyraider pilot over the word of a Bearcat pilot. Skyraider Bob himself told me that they were NOT dive brakes, they were speed brakes.



I'll go with speed brake/airbrake
From this AD/A-1 Skyraider cutaway, item No.126..port lateral airbrake.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 1, 2007)

They're speed brakes. I know Skyraider Bob as well.


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## spadguy (Jul 1, 2007)

It was developed to carry one 1000 pound bomb 1,000 miles from an aircraft carrier of the 2nd world war size.

It did that and so much more. It was a flying dump truck


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## spadguy (Jul 1, 2007)

I flew the Skyraider for a few years including the AD-4, 4NL, 5, 5Q, 5N, 6,and 7 models. Those were dive brakes.


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## spadguy (Jul 1, 2007)

In the movie "the longest day" those were Skyraiders (AD-6 or 7's)from Attack Squadron 85 that were flown by US Navy pilots deployed to the Med on a large carrier. I was not there but knew some who flew that mission.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 1, 2007)

spadguy said:


> I flew the Skyraider for a few years including the AD-4, 4NL, 5, 5Q, 5N, 6,and 7 models. Those were dive brakes.


The that says it right there - the next time I see Bob I'll tell him about this...

BTW What Squadrons were you in? I was an AD, worked on P-3s.


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## Graeme (Jul 1, 2007)




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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 1, 2007)




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## evangilder (Jul 1, 2007)

When did you take that shot, Joe? I see Dana's T-28 in the background.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 1, 2007)

evangilder said:


> When did you take that shot, Joe? I see Dana's T-28 in the background.



That was at Gillispie 2 or 3 years ago.


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## renrich (Jul 2, 2007)

I don't know that it makes a lot of difference but I believe the AD was originally designed by Ed Heineman to be a replacement for the SB2C and was supposed to have the capability of dive bombing and therefore in the early stages of it's career those brakes were probably used as dive brakes. Linnekin, whose book I got the quote from was a career naval aviator, an aeronautical engineer, a test pilot and flew operationally, among others, the Stearman, SNJ, Hellcat, Bearcat, Corsair, Panther, Banshee, AD, A4, F8U, Phantom etc. He has quite a lot of credibility with me. His book, if you can get it would seem to be a good read for all who have the interests we have.


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## Graeme (Jul 2, 2007)

Amazing what you find when you look.
The caption reads;
"Douglas AD-2 Skyraider extends the under-fuselage dive brake on an early developmental flight, 27 October 1949. The dive brake remained a standard feature of the attack bomber, although in Vietnam the brake was frequently wired shut to permit the use of a centreline fuel tank".
(Sorry about image quality)


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## spadguy (Jul 3, 2007)

The AD-5 did not always have the three panels for the dive brakes. Usually the bottom one was not installed due to the radome ( AD-5W) or due to mods for center station weapons or pods.

The AD-6/7 had all three panels and you DID NOT want to use them in level flight because they could blank out the airflow over the fully movable elevator trim system. You had to have a definite nose down trim before deploying the brakes. You COULD trim nose down, physically hold the nose up and pop the brakes. You would almost stop. Very effective but a lot of work and you would stall if you left the brakes out too long. It took a delicate touch to use them.

They were extremely effective in preventing acceleration while diving at very steep angles. All the better to aim.


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## renrich (Jul 3, 2007)

Thank you Spad guy. Very instuctive.


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## renrich (Jul 3, 2007)

Instructive!


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## mkloby (Jul 3, 2007)

Wasn't prop reversing already developed by then - initially for use in dive bombing for the same reason; to increase rate of descent and reduce A/S?


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## renrich (Jul 4, 2007)

Matt, did not dive bombing go out of favor because of the effectiveness of triple a and aa missles?


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## spadguy (Jul 12, 2007)

The Skyraider never had any form of prop reversing. That is a scary thought. In a high angle dive, steeper than 30 degrees, usually up around a 60 degree dive angle one would set the power to a nominal setting and the prop to around 2100 rpm. In the dive an automatic manifold pressure regulator prevented the manifold pressure from building as it will in any normal engine. It would reduce the pressure automatically then put the manifold pressure back to normal as you pulled out. It was just one less thing to worry about in a dive. It worked quite well.

High angle dive bombing, and some times it was very steep, worked becuse when the skyraider was designed not a lot of AA guns could elevate to those angles. One could dive in the cone where they could not get you. That did not last long.

Have you noticed the dive cowl flaps around the front of the engine. The operated like a camera iris to enclose the engine during long dives at low power to keep the engine from cooling off. They almost sealed it off. They reopened automatically when engine temp got to some limit.

They worked well to button up an engine at a dusty airfield ut that was very much an incidental use of the dive cowls.

In Viet Nam the presence of missiles, for which the Spad had little defense was a big factor in limiting the usage. The plane was in no way a dogfighter but it has won a few.

Given how oily and greasey the plane normally was we figured the development of an oil seeking missile was only a matter of time.


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## renrich (Jul 12, 2007)

Good info, thank you. It is nice to hear from someone who actually has experience with the subject ac.


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