# For the day after Earth Day



## michaelmaltby (Apr 23, 2012)

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc_!


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## PJay (Apr 23, 2012)

It's a pity the 'Global Warming or not' debate became politicized in the States.
(And, later, elsewhere.)


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## mikewint (Apr 23, 2012)

Michael, Sounds good but then again WHEN has the market ever been free? Government subsidies are rampant even to the oil industries who are raking in multibillon dollar profits. Iran makes threats to close the gulf and US gasoline prices jump $.50 in a week yet 95% of US oil comes from Canada and Mexico and we don't import Iranian oil.
Free Market, you bet, then then let's actually make it free


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## pbfoot (Apr 23, 2012)

Cleverly done but not impartial there is an agenda in the video


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## mikewint (Apr 23, 2012)

Name anyone/thing without one. Notwithstanding that which is free costs the most in the end


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## pbfoot (Apr 23, 2012)

mikewint said:


> Name anyone/thing without one. Notwithstanding that which is free costs the most in the end


There are very few but somewhere in the middle with conflicting viewpoints sure helps . I disagree with somethings in that video but agree with others , but certainly disagree with the absolute lack of any opposing viewpoint , and thats what kills any validity for that video . IMHO there are enough dummies that will only look at that and consider themselves up or conversant on the subject and if that the case there is much to worry about in the world . The only thing missing was a bit on inteklligent design


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## mikewint (Apr 24, 2012)

In my opinion it is impossible for any person to present a balanced viewpoint, e.g. my views/beliefs are mine because I am convinced they are correct. I'm open to change but it will require a preponderence of hard evidence for me to change. My agenda is automatically to convince you I'm correct. Much as I am doing now.
5 years ago I was pretty convinced that Global warming was a total crock. At this point I'm think that it has some pretty convincing evidence that it is real. Are we the cause? I feel now that the trend was there and we human simply accelerated the process. A similiar warming took place in the middle ages, followed by the Maunder Minimun and the little ice age 1645-1715 or 1816 the year without a summer. Climate certainly fluctuates and a well timed push could put it over the top


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 24, 2012)

Does the United States of America have enemies - those that would benefit from an impotent USA ...? Does Free Market Wall Street Capitalism have enemies ...? Is the Pope Catholic ..? 

Are America's enemies _what or who we think they are_ ... or something else altogether..?

Energy *is* the heart and soul of North America. 

Proud Canadian 

*Canada - the home of Ethical Oil*


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## mikewint (Apr 24, 2012)

Energy derived from petroleum is the heart of all modern economies because it is easy and all things considered cheap, about $2 US/barrel at the wellhead. I am uncertain as to your use of the word "ethical". Petroleum is by its very nature a limited non-renewable resource. In my opinion Peak Oil is in the very near future. Countries, like China, who never much cared about petroleum are finding their need growing exponentially. They want what the western world got 50 years ago and there is only so many places at the table. petroleum derived energy is about to get very expensive.
Yet the mid-eastern nations want our lips firmly around the oil teat and rapidly kill any attempt to develop alternative sources. The US has megatonnes of oil slale from which petroleum can be removed BUT not at $2/bbl. Only when mid-eastern oil begins to decline will alternative sources become economically feasable.
Fusion is the only unlimited energy source


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 24, 2012)

"... In my opinion Peak Oil is in the very near future."

*Ethical Oil* is oil reconstituted from Alberta Canada's Athabaska Region - THE SECOND LARGEST KNOWN OIL RESERVES IN THE WORLD - in pipeline reach to Galveston TX - the world's greatest oil refinery complex.

Somebody ...... doesn't want Canada to sell cheap, neighborly oil to our neighbors - in the USA - 


Peak Oil is just some academic's w*t dream, Mike, INHO 

MM


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## mikewint (Apr 24, 2012)

I suspected that that was what you meant and as I posted earlier Canada and Mexico supply most of the oil used by the US. THANK YOU CANADA! Peak oil is, unfortunately, very real. There is only so much of the good stuff, sweet crude, in underground deposits. The US's "Strategic Reserve" is almost entirely akin to asphault. While it is still petroleum it requires a LOT more refining to produce gasoline, kerosene, etc. The oil fields of texas were also vast and supplied the US with a tremendous leg-up in getting industrialized. Yet those vast fields were eventually depleated as will we the case with any petroleum deposit. Recall that at present the world is consuming 85 million barrels per day at 42 gallons per barrrel. Oil is not unlimited, hense Peak Oil


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 24, 2012)

"... Oil is not unlimited, hense Peak Oil"

Sweet Crude ... easy oil ... is not unlimited. Oil AKA bitumen is virtually limitless ... hence No Peak Oil.

MM

*Canada: Home of Ethical Oil*


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## mikewint (Apr 24, 2012)

Michael, if only it were so. While the Athabasca oil sand field is very large 1.7 trillion barrels to the IEA's estimate of 178 billion, it is only possible to extract about 10%. And there is a cost: 1200 cubic feet of natural gas per barrel (4% of western canada's gas production) expected to rise almost 3X by 2015. Water: a barrel of oil requires 4.5 barrels of water withdrawn from the Athabasca river. At present the mining operation uses 2 as much water as the city of Calgary. Toxins: Bitumin contains lead, cadmium, nickel, arsenic, chromium, and mercury all of which are returned to the mine sites and eventually the river. Carbon emissions: 115kg per barrel compared to 40kg per barrel in conventional oil production. This puts Canada in confilct with the Kyoto accords.
Put it all together and you are looking at $36 - $40 per barrel as opposed to $1-$2 for mid-east wells but with world oil prices at $50 - $100 per barrel the oil sands are ecomically attractive. However the mid-east can gut the operation at any time and still make a profit


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 25, 2012)

"... This puts Canada in confilct with the Kyoto accords."

Canada renounced its support of the Kyoto Accord last spring.


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## mikewint (Apr 25, 2012)

Which does nothing to change the 75kg CO2 per barrel of oil, or the 67 megatonnes expected by 2015 and it is why Canada is the 8th largest emitter of greenhouse gasses in the world. Considering Canada's population that is 15 tons per person (US is 18 tons per person).


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 26, 2012)

Don't understand your point, Mike ... is there a problem with CO2 ....? Last time I checked, CO2 + H20 = LIFE. Do you have a problem with oxygen-based life?

MM


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## Matt308 (Apr 26, 2012)

Gentlemen, back to airplanes please. This subject has proven political taboo EVERY time it has been undertaken.


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