# Question to our English friends



## Thorlifter (Mar 14, 2008)

Is getting honors from the queen or getting knighted still a big deal or is it losing it's flair. I forget what the other honors are, but it's the same thing that was offered to the Beatles, but John Lennon turned it down.


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## Njaco (Mar 14, 2008)

Its the Order of The British Empire or OBE and we'll see what the chaps across the pond have to say about its relavance.


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## Thorlifter (Mar 14, 2008)

That's it. Geez, I couldn't remember it. And apparently there are several recognitions like that. The one you get depends on what service your providing to England.


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## Glider (Mar 15, 2008)

There are a number of awards that are available to people in the UK starting with the MBE then the OBE up to some that are totally at the discression of the Queen.
Generally speaking they are recognised as being a good idea as they are a way of giving recognition to people who have served the community in one way or another. The vast majority are not given to well known personalities, they go to ordinary people who have given exceptional service in their area. This can include charity workers, social workers who may have started a local initiative, a teacher who has achieved exceptional results in a run down inner city school. There are numerous examples but I think you get the flavour on the occaision.
For ordinary people like this to be awarded an MBE, go to Buckingham Palace in London and be given the medal by the Queen in person, is a memorable moment to be cherished.

They are sometimes given to military people who step into the gap and carry out a civil task over and above what they normally would be expected. I have a friend who is a Major in the Army based in Wales. His senior officers and most of his men are assigned to Iraq and he had to organise the responce to a number of unexpected demands to help farmers deal with foot and mouth infections, TB outbreaks as well as co-ordinate the opening of the Welsh Parmilment. His MBE was awarded for service to the community. 

Personally what I don't agree with are people who get it for doing their normal job. For instance a political person who does their job without achieving anything out of the ordinary.

That said, most do go to ordinary people.


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## The Basket (Mar 15, 2008)

British not English.


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## merlin (Mar 15, 2008)

Why do you want posts from only English 'friends', why not Scotts and Welsh?


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## Lucky13 (Mar 15, 2008)

Ooor Swedish???


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## Freebird (Mar 15, 2008)

merlin said:


> Why do you want posts from only English 'friends', why not Scotts and Welsh?



'Fraid it's that way Merlin, most people don't know the difference between English British. The Welsh have been downtrodden ever since the death of Llewellen and then Longshanks trying to convince the Cymru that his queer baby was the new "Prince of Wales".  

It's the same way sometimes for Canadians travelling in parts of Europe, when they ask where I am from, I say Vancouver, *Canada*, the reply will then often be "Oh, you are American!"


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## Njaco (Mar 15, 2008)

Well, you are American...North American!


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## rochie (Mar 15, 2008)

personaly i couldn't care less about worthless gongs from the royal family.
most of them are awarded on the suggestion of the prime minister who seemed to use them to be seen with whoever was in the news at the time and bathe in the reflected glory.
why do we cling to these old fashioned and out of date traditions when the rest of this once great nation is slowly turning to s**t !


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## rochie (Mar 15, 2008)

just noticed that was my 100th post what a waste !!!!!!!


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## Lucky13 (Mar 15, 2008)

freebird said:


> 'Fraid it's that way Merlin, most people don't know the difference between English British. The Welsh have been downtrodden ever since the death of Llewellen and then Longshanks trying to convince the Cymru that his queer baby was the new "Prince of Wales".
> 
> It's the same way sometimes for Canadians travelling in parts of Europe, when they ask where I am from, I say Vancouver, *Canada*, the reply will then often be "Oh, you are American!"


You're from Vancouver in *British* Columbia?? Cool8) One of my dads cousins moved there in 1924....started out working as a logger, then for the railroad....he lived in Pitt Meadows...nice place I've heard...


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## Freebird (Mar 15, 2008)

Lucky13 said:


> You're from Vancouver in *British* Columbia?? Cool8) One of my dads cousins moved there in 1924....started out working as a logger, then for the railroad....he lived in Pitt Meadows...nice place I've heard...



Yep, nice place in the summer, it's a little cold rainy in the winter {probably like Glasgow} 
Come and visit sometime. 



Njaco said:


> Well, you are American...North American!



Be careful of that statement, I think the Mexicans think the same way...  

"We're all Americans, so why have any borders, Senor-es!!"


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## Thorlifter (Mar 15, 2008)

The Basket said:


> British not English.



My fault. Sorry



merlin said:


> Why do you want posts from only English 'friends', why not Scotts and Welsh?



I didn't know Scotts and Welsh got those honors. Again, my fault for being a dumb American.


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## Lucky13 (Mar 15, 2008)

Aaawww.....poor wee soul...don't take it so hard...you didn't know... I won't hold it against you, being an American....we all can't be perfect....


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## grob (Mar 15, 2008)

As a lowly britt i dont think il ever get an award,but im open to offers .Seriosly i think most of the awards go to to high management for favours done ,some going to famous names and a few going to well deserving hard workers


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## Thorlifter (Mar 15, 2008)

But my question is...is it still a big deal to get the award. I mean, if you meet someone that has a OBE or MBE or they have been knighted, is it something to still be impressed about?


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## Lucky13 (Mar 16, 2008)

Not as it used to be I think, for the reasons grob mentioned, might be wrong though....


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## The Basket (Mar 16, 2008)

I'm English living in Scotland and therefore would consider myself British.

The Scots probably see themselves as Scottish. 

I would still think a medal from the Queen is considered a great honour. Personally...nah...couldn't care less.


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## Njaco (Mar 16, 2008)

Lets see, Basket's in Scotland, Luckys in Scotland. Are there any Scotsmen in Scotland?!


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## Lucky13 (Mar 16, 2008)

A few Scots aye...not many men though.


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## Freebird (Mar 18, 2008)

Thorlifter said:


> But my question is...is it still a big deal to get the award. I mean, if you meet someone that has a OBE or MBE or they have been knighted, is it something to still be impressed about?



Well seeing as the Queen is about 82 years old I hope she doesn't slip with that sword and lop off something!!


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## The Basket (Mar 19, 2008)

Dunno about Scotsman in Scotland. Plenty of Scots in England so evens out the score.

But you will never get me in a kilt.

I'm not nationalist unless people start bad mouthing the Spitfire and then I do. 

Medals...not got one...never will.


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## plan_D (Mar 19, 2008)

Don't worry about the mistake, Thor. The Welsh and Scottish moan all day long but they've got it a lot better than the English; since they live off our taxes - the Welsh get their free prescriptions, the Scottish get their free university education ... the English get taxed. Makes you wonder why we bothered conquering them both.  They don't mind being called British when it's the BRITISH Empire...aside from the fact it should be called English Empire since the Welsh and Scottish didn't join willingly. 

On the issue of honours; I think that only very few are worthwhile - they've been wasted on sports personalities and popular names. Sir Francis Drake would be turning in his grave if he knew what a knighthood meant today.


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## rochie (Mar 19, 2008)

you said it much better than i did plan D


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## mkloby (Mar 19, 2008)

plan_D said:


> Don't worry about the mistake, Thor. The Welsh and Scottish moan all day long but they've got it a lot better than the English; since they live off our taxes - the Welsh get their free prescriptions, the Scottish get their free university education ... the English get taxed. Makes you wonder why we bothered conquering them both.  They don't mind being called British when it's the BRITISH Empire...aside from the fact it should be called English Empire since the Welsh and Scottish didn't join willingly.
> 
> On the issue of honours; I think that only very few are worthwhile - they've been wasted on sports personalities and popular names. Sir Francis Drake would be turning in his grave if he knew what a knighthood meant today.



Wales and Scotland are not taxed the same as England on the national level? What about N Ireland?


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## plan_D (Mar 19, 2008)

As far as I know the Welsh and Scottish are taxed the same but they get larger subsidies off the British government (Welsh free subscriptions being one). I don't know about N.Ireland but then the Northern Irish don't moan about England as much as the Welsh or Scottish. Naturally the English population is the largest contributor to the British tax system and it *seems* we get the least out of it; unless anyone thinks that Britain being refered to England is worth having to pay for your university education and medical prescriptions.


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## Njaco (Mar 19, 2008)

> then the Northern Irish don't moan about England as much as the Welsh or Scottish.



OK, Plan, I'm alittle backward on things happening in the UK but I thought that for the past, oh, 100 years, the Northern Irish (IRA) were blowing up all things British? Am I wrong?


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## plan_D (Mar 19, 2008)

The IRA were mostly active during the '60s and '70s. And yes, ever since 1921 there has been trouble from the Catholic Northern Irish. I was largely talking about pointless moaning; the troubles in Northern Ireland are largely a clash amongst themselves with the British government looking on in dismay (because it can't do anything). 

All that in Northern Ireland has become quiet compared to thirty years ago. Most of the troubles in Northern Ireland now are easily comparable to the problems on mainland U.K. - the Catholic and Protestant clashes seem like the gangfights we have in London between the various Chav gangs. Modern generations have no real conviction when it comes to their beliefs, they just want to cause trouble. 

I have to point out that the IRA are Catholic Northern Irish terrorists as are their brethren the Real IRA. To lump all the Northern Irish as the IRA would get you in a whole load of trouble from the Protestants that live there, the supporters of Great Britain. The Protestant trouble-makers are the UDF (Ulster Defence Force) and UDA (Ulster Defence Army). 

The argument from both sides has some merit and it's quite hard to take sides. Naturally being 'protestant' British I would want to support the protestants over there that want to stay part of Great Britain (God knows why they'd want that) - especially since the Protestants have been the majority over there from sometime. It's changing now though with the Catholic population boom; their want of returning to Eire seems to carry more weight. Honestly, I think they should both shut up and just get on with life ... but I don't live there, so it's not my place to care about it. 

But anyway, I was talking about moaning .. not blowing things up.


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## Njaco (Mar 19, 2008)

Understood and my post was alittle unclear. Thanks! And not knowing all involved I can agree with your last part - they both shut up!


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## mkloby (Mar 19, 2008)

plan_D said:


> As far as I know the Welsh and Scottish are taxed the same but they get larger subsidies off the British government (Welsh free subscriptions being one). I don't know about N.Ireland but then the Northern Irish don't moan about England as much as the Welsh or Scottish. Naturally the English population is the largest contributor to the British tax system and it *seems* we get the least out of it; unless anyone thinks that Britain being refered to England is worth having to pay for your university education and medical prescriptions.



So the different regions receive different entitlements??? That seems a policy that will breed only resentment, as exclusionary policies towards their citizens always do... not to mention taking more tax money.


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## ccheese (Mar 19, 2008)

OK, lads, just what are "The Knights of The Garter" and "The Ladies
of The Garter" ? Sir Winston Churchill and his daughter, Lady Mary
Soames are both members. Is this an honor (or honour) like the
MBE and OBE ?? Is it presented by Her Majesty, the Queen ?

Charles


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## rochie (Mar 19, 2008)

go here for explanation of honours list
The Orders of Chivalry


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## k9kiwi (Mar 19, 2008)

Sir Edmund Hillary was the only New Zealand member of the Most Noble Order of the Garter.

His seat in the chapel has been roped off since his death so that no person may sit in it.

His flag will be removed soon at a memorial service to be held by Her Majesty The Queen.

After this is done a 24th member may be admitted to the order in his place.


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## The Basket (Mar 20, 2008)

When did England conquer Scotland? The union was agreed on paper. It was A Scottish king who became King of England. The SNP want independence so they haven't intention to sponge of anyone. Also Scottish oil pays for itself.

Again Scotland pays its way more than some regions or counties of England. If you believe Scotland has it easier then whose fault is that?

Scotland certainly did very well under the union and it does annoy that the Scottish don't see this. 

Scottish troops are in Iraq and Afghanistan doing their bit as part of the British Armed Forces.

A Scotsman is not English and it is not factually correct to say so. But they are British and most accept that as read.


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## plan_D (Mar 20, 2008)

Another Scot who has failed to read the history books. The matter of the monarchy is largely unimportant given the fact that European monarchy is inbred, and if we go off your logic then Great Britain is German, Dutch or French. 

Sure, Scotland signed the Act of Union in 1707 but they hardly wanted to be brought under English rule; the monarch might have been Scottish but the Parliament wasn't. England conquered the British Isles, it's an easily understood fact; winning Bannockburn doesn't mean Scotland conquered England. 

It's not Scottish oil; it's English. It's in international waters and was mostly paid for by English money - making it all English. Scotland's economy would not be able to survive without English money - I hope Scotland does break away completely. Fact of the matter is, they won't. England will always support Scotland - they'll claim independance and still live off English money.

Scotland and Wales both have it easier because the 'British' Government is soft and anyone but white English straight males get everything they want. 

I never said that Scottish troops weren't doing their part because they certainly are. They're no better or worse than English troops - and serve the United Kingdom with equal skill and valour. The worth of Scottish troops was not brought into question, ever. 

You're right, a Scotsman isn't English. And you'd be right to correct people on that, but moaning about being British (which a lot of Scots, Welsh and English do) is stupid. 

As for Scotland paying more than some English counties - I should bloody hope so...the population of Scotland is around 5 million - there's some counties with less than 200,000. In fact, the only area in England that matches Scotlands population is London with 8 million. 

And yes, mkloby, all the regions receive different entitlements.


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## The Basket (Mar 20, 2008)

I'm English. From the North West of England. Near Manchester.

I'm not Scottish. Never is and Never was and Never shall be.

The inshore oil facilities are in Scotland. The oil is British.

I consider myself British and I'm proud of this. 

The Spitfire is a good case. It is not an English plane. The wing designer was a Canadian! But it was flown and built and maintained by people from all over the UK and the Commonwealth and Free forces. It is a British aircraft representing British technology and the British people who came in contact with it. The first Spitfire kill was over the Forth.

Your views just play into the hands of the SNP who want to divide UK and claim that Britishness doesn't mean anything.


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## plan_D (Mar 20, 2008)

I am also proud of being British - I do not generally refer to myself as being English, but I am proud of my English history also. I am also ed when England forgets the 23rd April. 

The Union has made this island's history and it's future. I will only argue against Scotland and Wales when they start their idiotic rants against England - who have less to gain from the Union than both Scotland and Wales. 

The SNP are idiots; they know full well that Scotland could not survive on its own. If they believe it could they would soon be in for a shock. The fact of the matter is, it's not the 1940s anymore and "Britishness" is not what it once was. There's no national pride, and no love of the Union Jack. We live in a self-centered society with no conviction, no backbone and no mutual support. It's all f*$k you, Jack, I'm alright. The legendary BMW driver, White Van Man, Lager Lout, Football Hooligan is a perfect example of modern "Britishness". To me, waving a flag for a sports event does not make you patriotic but for some reason most of Britain thinks it is. They say it's unpatriotic to bet against England's football team ... why? Football isn't important it's a game, and I know we'll lose - so I want to make money. When it comes to the BRITISH Armed Forces I'll back them wherever they go, and whatever they do. And I'll stand up for my country against anyone who thinks they're worth one speck of British soil. But the people of Britain are still dicks ... whether they're English, Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish.


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## Thorlifter (Mar 20, 2008)

ummmm........sorry guys. Didn't want this thread to get chippy.

But hey!!! It's almost Friday!!!!! Good times ahead


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## The Basket (Mar 20, 2008)

Thorlifter said:


> ummmm........sorry guys. Didn't want this thread to get chippy.
> 
> But hey!!! It's almost Friday!!!!! Good times ahead



I'm working over the weekend. 

This is not chippy...merely a discussion between English gentleman. 

As a reader of history, I know that today is the best time to be alive. Would I rather die of the Black Plague...no. Would I rather be in the trenches of the Somme...no. 

You mention the 1940s as a golden age of Britain...

But we faced invasion, we were at war, the Yankee Doodles were drinking our beer and taking our birds and the country was flat broke!

As someone once said...even the poorest in our society can be fat! Where poverty means not having satellite TV.

I hate BMWs as much as anyone and the awfulness of the Yob culture. I think Football sums up the worst aspects of our society which is why I watch Rugby League and MotoGP instead.

But there are positive aspects as well. You just have to find them.

But an American, Frenchman, German can say the same thing.

The ills of modern society and all that.


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## Thorlifter (Mar 20, 2008)

The Basket said:


> This is not chippy...merely a discussion between English gentleman.



Very good then. Carry on.


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## Clave (Mar 21, 2008)

> I say Vancouver, Canada, the reply will then often be "Oh, you are American!"



That must be so annoying! 

Also, the seats on the Sky Train are too hard!


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## Matt308 (Mar 21, 2008)

Bloody hell. And to think that my early experiences in highschool where the "yankees" and southerners were at odds with each other. Sheesh. Is the UK as divisive as this thread indicates? Crum, I hope not. I thought I liked you guys for your stability over the eons. I guess I'm just another ignorant American.


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## mkloby (Mar 22, 2008)

Matt308 said:


> Bloody hell. And to think that my early experiences in highschool where the "yankees" and southerners were at odds with each other. Sheesh. Is the UK as divisive as this thread indicates? Crum, I hope not. I thought I liked you guys for your stability over the eons. I guess I'm just another ignorant American.



Matt - I'm a firm believer in the nation-state, although lefties often rail it as evil and interfering with the their vision of global government. I think most times a nation does not have a representative state that there will be significant levels of dissent. Although the history of Britain is more complicated than that, I think there will always be that unsatisfied element.


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## plan_D (Mar 23, 2008)

Wasn't the 14th Century voted the worst century to be alive in Great Britain? I never said that the 1940s was a golden age for Great Britain, but it certainly was for Britishness. Maybe it will take adversity for the Britons to realise their culture again.

The positives of British society are few and far between - it's certainly not the worst country in the world but it's being dragged down. Great Britain is too soft; the last great example of defiance was by Enoch Powell in '68. The majority of the nation came out in force to support him when he was sacked - but the British government proved the lie that is British democracy by 'knowing better than the British people'. 

The country is going down the drain slowly but surely. As for national divide - it's all over ... the English hate the Welsh and Scottish; the Scottish and Welsh hate the English. The south hates the north, and the north hates the south. Stability in the United Kingdom has never been achieved any longer than 50 years ... only the violence has been quelled, for now.


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## HealzDevo (Dec 14, 2010)

Fact is every country has its divides. Not that long ago there were racial riots in Sydney, over the issue of the fact that parts of Sydney and other capital cities are starting to become a little bit too multicultural in an unthought out policy that will lead to all the problems of elsewhere. Fact is it never worked overseas long term, why should Australia expect it to work here?

Oh, I will point out that I am Australian. Once you get too many different issues from different countries with respect to rights and responsibilities it becomes almost impossible for Society to go anywhere but to Hell in a shopping trolley down the side of a cliff...


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## Freebird (Dec 19, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> I thought I liked you guys for your stability over the eons. I guess I'm just another ignorant American.



Sure, very stable.
They've hated each other for over 1,000 years... 



plan_D said:


> the English hate the Welsh and Scottish; the Scottish and Welsh hate the English. The south hates the north, and the north hates the south.



Could it be perhaps similar to the Southerners (US) talking about the "San Fransico Liberals", or folks from L.A. N.Y. talking about "Texas Rednecks"?


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## RabidAlien (Dec 19, 2010)

freebird said:


> Sure, very stable.
> They've hated each other for over 1,000 years...
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, don't worry...they only speak of "Texas Rednecks" with a hushed and reverent awe. 8)


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