# Knights Templar and North America, myth or fact?



## Lucky13 (Sep 5, 2014)

Just throwing the famous spanner in the works....


----------



## fubar57 (Sep 5, 2014)

When I became a memb....I mean..ah..er..nope, no Knights Templars in North America.

Geo


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2014)

Whats the myth of the Nights Templar and North America?


----------



## Lucky13 (Sep 5, 2014)

That they sailed there after the French king......'disbanded' them..


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Sep 5, 2014)

Home


----------



## Capt. Vick (Sep 5, 2014)

MYTH...next!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2014)

I love Masonic *myths*...


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 5, 2014)

North America wasn't known to Europeans or the Templars when they were screwed over in the 1300's.

The Masons were familiar with North America, however, as many of the Founding Fathers were Masons.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Njaco (Sep 6, 2014)

Now, the Vikings are another matter.......


----------



## stona (Sep 6, 2014)

GrauGeist said:


> The Masons were familiar with North America, however, as many of the Founding Fathers were Masons.



Good job for all those deist principles enshrined in the constitution 

Early 14th century Europeans, Templar or otherwise, in North America...myth.

Steve


----------



## Lucky13 (Sep 6, 2014)

Well, Vikings were.....are Europeans or Northern Europeans! 

Shame that they didn't settle for longer, would have been a nice welcome committee for Colom...Colum....whatshisname!


----------



## stona (Sep 6, 2014)

Lucky13 said:


> Well, Vikings were.....are Europeans or Northern Europeans!



True, but the age of the Vikings is generally taken to end in 1066, at least in English history, so a bit before the 14th century. The Normans were of Viking ancestry as, rather more obviously, was the leader of the other less successful invasion that year, Harald Hardrada. 
The Viking age was definitely over in any European history by the early 12th century 
Cheers
Steve


----------



## Shortround6 (Sep 6, 2014)

Nah, they would have had to settle in the Caribbean Islands to meet "Colum....whatshisname" and the fair skinned vikings burnt to a crisp, no SPF 50 sun block


----------



## stona (Sep 6, 2014)

A German friend of mine refers to getting drunk, lying in the sun and getting burnt as 'Swedish sunbathing' 

According to him getting drunk and getting sunburnt are two things that come easily to our Scandinavian brethren!

Steve

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Lucky13 (Sep 6, 2014)

Getting rat arsed is more fun then sunbathing!


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 6, 2014)

I remember watching some special about some supposed stone carving of a knight found in the 1800's in Massachusetts or some other state up north and the Newport Tower in Rhode Island both being tied to the Knights. It was interesting but I would need more evidence.


----------



## gumbyk (Sep 8, 2014)

GrauGeist said:


> North America wasn't known to Europeans or the Templars when they were screwed over in the 1300's.
> 
> The Masons were familiar with North America, however, as many of the Founding Fathers were Masons.



There is evidence that Freemasonry and Templars worked closely (who do you think built all their temples?), and one theory is that a lot of Templars were 'absorbed' into the Freemason society.
The only Freemason hall that I've been into has a number of items of regalia with Freemason symbology on it (headwear, cloaks, etc), so I believe that there is some truth to this.

As for whether the ever made it to North America, probably not.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 9, 2014)

This might get interesting after all...


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 9, 2014)

There was a large Masonic presence with the founding of the United States.

Signers of the Declaration of Independence:
William Ellery of Rhode Island; First Lodge of Boston
Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania; Grand Master of Pennsylvania
John Hancock of Massachusetts; Merchants Lodge No.277 (Quebec), Saint Andrew's Lodge (Boston)
Joseph Hewes (Howes) of North Carolina; Unanimity Lodge No.7
William Hooper of North Carolina; Hanover Lodge, Masonborough, NC
Thomas McKean of Delaware; Perseverance Lodge, Harrisburg, PA
Robert Treat Paine of Massachusetts; Massachusetts Grand Lodge
George Walton of Georgia; Solomon's Lodge No.1 Savannah, GA
William Whipple of New Hampshire; St. John's Lodge, Portsmouth, NH

And 6 more possible. It has been speculated that Thomas Jefferson was a Mason, however there is no evidence to back this claim.

Signers of the Constitution:
Gunning Bedford, Jr. of Delaware; 1st Grand Master of Delaware
John Blair of Virginia; 1st Grand Master of Virginia
David Brearley of New Jersey; 1st Grand Master of New Jersey
Jacob Broom of Delaware
Daniel Carroll of Maryland
Jonathan Dayton of New Jersey; Temple Lodge No.1 Elizabethtown, NJ
John Dickinson of Delaware
Benjamin Franklin of Pennsylvania; Grand Master of Pennsylvania
Nicholas Gilman of New Hampshire; St. John's Lodge No.1 Portsmouth, NH
Rufus King of Massachusetts; St. John's Lodge, Newburyport, MA
James McHenry of Maryland; Spiritual Lodge No.23 MD
William Paterson of New Jersey; Trenton Lodge No.5
George Washington of Virginia; Lodge of Fredericksburg, Charter Master of Alexandria Lodge No.22

There is a possibility that several others may have been members.

Continental Army:
James Clinton, Brigadier General; Warren Lodge No.17
Elias Dayton, Brigadier General; Military Lodge No.19 Pennsylvania
Joseph Frye, Brigadier General; Grand Lodge of Massachusetts
Mordecai Gist, Brigadier General; Lodge No.16 Baltimore, Grand Master of South Carolina
John Glover, Brigadier General; Philanthropic Lodge
John Greaton, Brigadier General; Masters Lodge of Albany
Nathanael Greene, Major General
Edward Hand, Major General; Military Lodge No.19 Pennsylvania
James Hogun; Brigadier General; Royal Arch Lodge No.3
Henry Knox, Major General
Marquis de LaFayette, (Maréchal de camp; France) Major General
Benjamin Lincoln, Major General; Lodge of St. Andrew, Boston
William Maxwell, Brigadier General; Military Lodge No.19 Pennsylvania
Hugh Mercer, Brigadier General; Lodge of Fredericksburg
Richard Montgomery, Major General; Lodge of Unity No.18 (under Irish Registry; 17th Regiment of Foot)
Peter Muhlenberg, Brigadier General; Royal Arch Lodge No.3
John Nixon, Brigadier General
Samuel H. Parsons, Major General; American Union Lodge, St. john's Lodge No.2 Middletown, CT
John Paterson, Brigadier General; Berkshire No. 5 Lodge, Stockbridge
Israel Putnam, Major General; Crown Point Military Lodge
Rufus Putnam, Brigadier General; American Union Lodge
Arthur St. Clair, Major General; Nova Caesarea Lodge No.10, Cincinnati
John Stark, Brigadier General; Masters Lodge, Albany
Frederick W.A. von Steuben (Inspector General; Prussia) Major General; German Mason, Trinity Lodge No.10 NY, Holland Lodge No.8
John Sullivan, Major General; St. John's Lodge, Portsmouth NH, Grand Master of New Hampshire
Jethro Sumner, Brigadier General; Blandford Butte Lodge, NC
William Thompson, Brigadier General; Royal Arch Lodge No. 3, Philadelphia
James M. Varnum, Brigadier General
George Washington; General and Commander in Chief; Lodge of Fredericksburgh, Charter Master of Alexandria Lodge No.22
George Weedon, Brigadier General; Port Royal Kilwinning Cross Lodge No.2, Lodge of Fredericksburg 
Otho H. Williams, Brigadier General; American Union Lodge, Roxbury MA, Maryland Lodge No.27
David Wooster, Brigadier General; Military Lodge of Louisbourg, Hiram Lodge No.1 New Haven, CT

Several more may have been Masons, but no records survive of membership or activity.


----------



## Njaco (Sep 9, 2014)

I was a member of DeMolay in my early years (pre-Free Mason) and I can tell you that alot of the myths about Masonry is just not true and born out of ignorance for the fraternity. Thats what it is: a Fraternity of men (women are Eastern Star) with ideas and mores for living a full life based on christian values. Thats all. Many, many famous people throughout history have been Masons. I've just never understood the dislike.......

Reactions: Bacon Bacon:
1 | Like Like:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## mikewint (Sep 9, 2014)

In their own words (biblebelievers.org)
Like other secret societies, the Freemasons have their own written constitutions. In the Scottish Rite petition for admission to the mysteries, question number 26 asks: 'Do you promise, upon your honor, to strictly adhere to and be governed by the Constitution and Laws of the Grand Lodge of Texas and by the By-Laws of this Lodge?' Question number 29 asks: 'Do you seriously declare, upon your honor, that you will cheerfully conform to the ancient established usages and customs of Masonry?'

Edmona Ronayue described the requirement of obedience to all laws and edicts: 'First, the candidate is made to swear eternal obedience to all Masonic laws and edicts, and without having the slightest knowledge of any one of them; then the law peremptorily excluding the name of Christ is submitted for his acceptance, and, lastly, in perfect harmony with the requirements of his Masonic obligation, a blind implicit unwavering obedience to this law is demanded of him whether right or wrong' (The Master's Carpet (1879). 

'It is even claimed that: The teachings of Freemasonry . . . are summarily this: Obey Masonic law, and live' (Rev. C.G. Finney, The Character, Claims and Practical Workings of Freemasonry (1869) p.2130. 

'It has been said: Those who over-step the Constitution of the US government by joining secret societies and take their judicial oaths to secretly uphold their members in so far as they can when their design and purposes conflict with our Constitutions and laws should be treated as traitors of the government and deprived of their franchise as citizens' (William Edward Smith, Christianity and Secret Societies, (1936) 25). 

While not overtly encouraged to participate in criminal activity, Freemasons were sworn to protect their brother Freemasons should they engage in immoral or criminal conduct. The Royal Arch Mason swore, 'I will aid and assist a companion Royal Arch Mason, when engaged in any difficulty, and espouse his cause, so far as to extricate him from the same, if in my power, whether he be right or wrong . . . A companion Royal Arch Mason's secrets, given me in charge as such, and I knowing him to be such, shall remain as secure and inviolable, in my breast as in his own, murder and treason not excepted, etc.' (The Address of the U.S. Anti-Masonic Convention (1830) p. 9). 

In summary, according to Freemasonry's critics, Freemasonry is a brotherhood or more aptly a cult which mandates secrecy and obedience within its ranks, affords protection and advancement of the interests of its members, punishes its enemies and turns a blind eye to criminal behavior committed by its members against non-members. Freemasonry provides a value system and an organizational structure which works to put brother Freemasons in positions of power in all organizations and can be used by its members for the most immoral and illegal purposes. Its foundation appears to rest upon the willingness of its members to selfishly exchange their ethics for personal advantage. Its strength appears to lie in a pervasive presence, unseen by those outside the brotherhood, working in concert to protect and expand their wealth and power.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 9, 2014)

mikewint said:


> In summary, according to Freemasonry's critics, Freemasonry is a brotherhood or more aptly a cult which mandates secrecy and obedience within its ranks, affords protection and advancement of the interests of its members, punishes its enemies and turns a blind eye to criminal behavior committed by its members against non-members. Freemasonry provides a value system and an organizational structure which works to put brother Freemasons in positions of power in all organizations and can be used by its members for the most immoral and illegal purposes. Its foundation appears to rest upon the willingness of its members to selfishly exchange their ethics for personal advantage. Its strength appears to lie in a pervasive presence, unseen by those outside the brotherhood, working in concert to protect and expand their wealth and power.





Hilarious, I knew this thread would get good!

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 9, 2014)

mikewint said:


> In summary, according to Freemasonry's critics, Freemasonry is a brotherhood or more aptly a cult which mandates secrecy and obedience within its ranks, affords protection and advancement of the interests of its members, punishes its enemies and turns a blind eye to criminal behavior committed by its members against non-members. Freemasonry provides a value system and an organizational structure which works to put brother Freemasons in positions of power in all organizations and can be used by its members for the most immoral and illegal purposes. Its foundation appears to rest upon the willingness of its members to selfishly exchange their ethics for personal advantage. Its strength appears to lie in a pervasive presence, unseen by those outside the brotherhood, working in concert to protect and expand their wealth and power.



The sad thing with just about any ".org" is the alarming amount of misinformation and out-right bullsh!ttery that oozes out of those places.

These same places also fan the fire of misinformation by promoting Illuminati conspiracies, Hollow-earth conspiracies, HAARP and geo-engineering conspiracies and in many cases, connect one or more of these organizations together.

We have Masons in my family and have had, for many generations. At no time have I ever seen any with lizard skin, plotting world domination, while holding a garden hose out of a window of a 747 that has flown out of a big hole in the earth from a secret, undisclosed location.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## fubar57 (Sep 9, 2014)

Geo


----------



## Njaco (Sep 9, 2014)

Its amazing that for such a secret society, everybody knows its secrets!

or.....

In summary, according to the Congressional Black Caucus' critics, the Congressional Black Caucus is a brotherhood or more aptly a cult which mandates secrecy and obedience within its ranks, affords protection and advancement of the interests of its members, punishes its enemies and turns a blind eye to criminal behavior committed by its members against non-members. Freemasonry provides a value system and an organizational structure which works to put brother Congressmen in positions of power in all organizations and can be used by its members for the most immoral and illegal purposes. Its foundation appears to rest upon the willingness of its members to selfishly exchange their ethics for personal advantage. Its strength appears to lie in a pervasive presence, unseen by those outside the brotherhood, working in concert to protect and expand their wealth and power.

or maybe.....

In summary, according to the UAW-CIO critics, the UAW-CIO is a brotherhood or more aptly a cult which mandates secrecy and obedience within its ranks, affords protection and advancement of the interests of its members, punishes its enemies and turns a blind eye to criminal behavior committed by its members against non-members. Freemasonry provides a value system and an organizational structure which works to put brother Union member in positions of power in all organizations and can be used by its members for the most immoral and illegal purposes. Its foundation appears to rest upon the willingness of its members to selfishly exchange their ethics for personal advantage. Its strength appears to lie in a pervasive presence, unseen by those outside the brotherhood, working in concert to protect and expand their wealth and power.

hmmm............................

Reactions: Like Like:
3 | Like List reactions


----------



## gumbyk (Sep 9, 2014)

Freemasonry isn't as secretive as it once was. As I said, I've been into a masonic hall a number of times, and I'm no mason (I don't even qualify for membership).
I've even seen Freemason bumper stickers, which read "2B1 ask 1" hardly something a secret society would do.
The fact of the matter is that they, like many other organisations are having trouble maintaining their numbers, and have to open up some of their secretive practices to attract new members.

Regarding 'Christian' values - the only requirement here is for a belief in 'a higher power'. Basically, they don't care which god you believe in, as long as you believe in one.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 9, 2014)

gumbyk said:


> Freemasonry isn't as secretive as it once was. As I said, I've been into a masonic hall a number of times, and I'm no mason (I don't even qualify for membership).
> I've even seen Freemason bumper stickers, which read "2B1 ask 1" hardly something a secret society would do.
> The fact of the matter is that they, like many other organisations are having trouble maintaining their numbers, and have to open up some of their secretive practices to attract new members.
> 
> Regarding 'Christian' values - the only requirement here is for a belief in 'a higher power'. Basically, they don't care which god you believe in, as long as you believe in one.



Why don't you qualify?

I can tell you that 2B one, ask one is very accurate.

I get a kick out of the hollywood conspiracy theories. It's like chemtrails...

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## gumbyk (Sep 9, 2014)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Why don't you qualify?



That little bit about 'belief in a higher power'...

Yeah, and the older the conspiracy the bigger and better it gets!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2014)

gumbyk said:


> That little bit about 'belief in a higher power'...
> 
> Yeah, and the older the conspiracy the bigger and better it gets!



I see...


----------



## stona (Sep 10, 2014)

Masonic beliefs are not always compatible with orthodox or catholic Christian beliefs. I mentioned the 'deist' beliefs enshrined in the US constitution for example. Masons have a secret word for god which is itself an amalgamation of the names of other deities, all except one of which Christians deny.

The Roman church has forbidden its members from being freemasons since 1738. There has been some confusion and relaxation in recent years but a catholic mason is deemed to be in a state of grave sin and is forbidden from taking mass. Freemasonry is considered anti Christian and the 'supreme architect' is not the same as the Holy Trinity.

None of this effects or bothers a large majority of masons who do indeed treat their lodge as a sort of social club. They can do so as long as they cough up their annual subscription, but that is not what the masonic belief and ritual system is all about. 

All this makes Njaco's post above either naive or that of a masonic apologist.

I am not 'on the square' but I come from a family of naval officers and policemen who most definitely were/are.

Cheers

Steve


----------



## Njaco (Sep 10, 2014)

Wow, I don't know about apologist but I know I was never taught nor experience any of the things posted.



> Freemasonry is considered anti Christian and the 'supreme architect' is not the same as the Holy Trinity.....



I would love to know where this gem came from since I, myself was Chaplain for my Chapter and there was a book I read from. Oh, yes, the Holy Bible - King James version.

And you can say what you want but I can only comment on what I experienced and saw. Nothing of what has been posted was ever in evidence and you would think that molding young minds - such as what I was part of in DeMolay - these issues would arise. They didn't.

I found it to be a healthy association that taught me how to interact in a "civilized" society - nothing more or less. No demons or world domination.


----------



## Lucky13 (Sep 10, 2014)

No tinfoil hats?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2014)

There are so many falsehoods and misinformation floating around.

People will believe anything they hear, especially if it is negative or induced by hollywood.

I find it very amusing.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Lucky13 (Sep 10, 2014)

Maybe start a thread for Illuminati.....


----------



## mikewint (Sep 10, 2014)

The Freemasons are one of the most secretive and controversial religious groups in the world. Masons have existed for centuries – and if we are to believe their claims, they’ve existed covertly for even longer. Whatever their history, speculation has always been an enjoyable pastime – and this is especially true in the case of the Masons. Their secrecy fuels the speculation and the few things that are known add fuel. Having passed down traditions and secrets from one generation of initiates to the next, they make it difficult to know what’s outdated and what’s still practiced. Connecting this thread to another current thread: 
Speculation at the time was that Freemasons were behind the series of attacks attributed to Jack the Ripper. The Rippers' mutilation of his victims was supposed to represent the symbolic penalties imposed on a Brother who revealed the secrets of the Lodge. According to people like Stephen Knight and Walter Sickert, it was a plot devised by Sir William Gull to cover up the fact that Edward, Duke of Clarence and heir to the throne had secretly married a prostitute and fathered a child. (In fact, Sir William Gull was not even a Freemason, but this does not discourage the story.) Even the mysterious message left behind by the Ripper, "The Juwes Are The Men That Will Not Be Blamed For Nothing" was supposed to be masonic, with "the Juwes" referring to the 3 masons of masonic ritual who murdered Hiram Abif: Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum.
Consider these ten masonic activities as possible facts. 
1. Freemasons are commanded not to testify truthfully when another Mason is on trial if that truth would harm their brother. They admit that it may be perjury, but to them, it is a far greater sin to not protect one of their own.  
2. Though some members deny it to the public, the Freemasons have at least one secret masonic handshake. Supposedly, there are even phrases a Freemason can utter when facing grave danger – causing other members to rush to their aid. The founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, is said to have uttered this phrase in the last moments before his death.  
3. The Masons have a secret password. This is one of the best-known facts about the Masons, but the general perception is that they have just one password. In fact, there are several passwords for various occasions and reasons. As the one person with the final syllable for the ultimate secret word was murdered, they substituted “mor-bon-zi” for this word, and only very few people know the actual secret word. This secret word is used only for ceremonies: “tu-bal-cain” is the more common secret password, on the tip of every Freemason tongue.  
4. The initiation rituals- though described by Masons as beautiful ceremonies – include a noose. It’s hard to tell whether this is meant as a threat, a call to maintain silence, or simply as the symbol of an umbilical cord (as they claim), but in any case: the initiate is blindfolded, with his left trouser leg rolled up to the knee and his shirt partially unbuttoned to expose his left nipple, and a noose is placed around his neck. The new member must promise to uphold Masonic traditions and not divulge any of the society's secrets. Traditionally, this promise was accompanied by various bloodthirsty punishments (such as having your tongue torn out and being buried alive below the high water mark), however, in deference to modern sensibilities these lines have now been largely excised or euphemistically referred to as the "traditional penalties." 
5. Freemasons believe that the east symbolizes rebirth. They sing the sun in its flight – marvelling at its passage through the sky. Masonic lodges tend to be built in the east and in the west, as an attempt to control solar power for their own purposes. 
6. It’s impossible to become a Freemason if you’re an atheist. The first requirement is that potential members must believe in a higher power of some sort. They claim not to care what higher power that is, but you must define it for yourself. You can lie about it, but religion seems to be a point of honor among them. On the other hand, traditionally excluded groups – such as gay men – are included in Masonry, so long as they behave in the same moral manner as other groups. The temple still excludes women, but some groups are currently challenging that fact.
7. The official corruption of Masonry is well-documented, but often covered up. Half a million Masons in England are disproportionately involved in banking, politics, and government. Even hospitals and universities are often controlled by the Masons
8. If you’ve ever looked closely at the US dollar bill, you’ve probably seen the All-Seeing Eye above the pyramid. This symbol is a Freemason symbol, and the Latin underneath is a Freemason motto, meaning “new world order”. Many say that the decision to include this masonic symbol was not influenced by Freemasons – Benjamin Franklin being the only Mason on the design committee – but the coincidence remains fascinating all the same.  
9. Breivik – responsible for the 2011 mass murder in Norway – was a member of the Lodge of St. Olaf in Oslo. He was promptly excluded – but his degree of involvement within the organization is open for debate.
That a Mason did this DOES NOT reflect on Masons as a group. Timothy McVeigh was raised Catholic and before his execution accepted the Catholic sacrament. 
10. Some say that Masons have an agenda to take over the world – but some Masons seem to have their sights set on the moon. Astronauts in the Apollo program – including Buzz Aldrin – were self-professed Masons. Their rite flags have been to the moon and back, and Aldrin seems to have claimed the moon for his Masonic lodge in Texas.


----------



## mikewint (Sep 10, 2014)

The Freemasons are one of the most secretive and controversial religious groups in the world. Masons have existed for centuries – and if we are to believe their claims, they’ve existed covertly for even longer. Whatever their history, speculation has always been an enjoyable pastime – and this is especially true in the case of the Masons. Their secrecy fuels the speculation and the few things that are known add fuel. Having passed down traditions and secrets from one generation of initiates to the next, they make it difficult to know what’s outdated and what’s still practiced. Connecting this thread to another current thread: 
Speculation at the time was that Freemasons were behind the series of attacks attributed to Jack the Ripper. The Rippers' mutilation of his victims was supposed to represent the symbolic penalties imposed on a Brother who revealed the secrets of the Lodge. According to people like Stephen Knight and Walter Sickert, it was a plot devised by Sir William Gull to cover up the fact that Edward, Duke of Clarence and heir to the throne had secretly married a prostitute and fathered a child. (In fact, Sir William Gull was not even a Freemason, but this does not discourage the story.) Even the mysterious message left behind by the Ripper, "The Juwes Are The Men That Will Not Be Blamed For Nothing" was supposed to be masonic, with "the Juwes" referring to the 3 masons of masonic ritual who murdered Hiram Abif: Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum.
Consider these ten masonic activities as possible facts. 
1. Freemasons are commanded not to testify truthfully when another Mason is on trial if that truth would harm their brother. They admit that it may be perjury, but to them, it is a far greater sin to not protect one of their own.  
2. Though some members deny it to the public, the Freemasons have at least one secret masonic handshake. Supposedly, there are even phrases a Freemason can utter when facing grave danger – causing other members to rush to their aid. The founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, is said to have uttered this phrase in the last moments before his death.  
3. The Masons have a secret password. This is one of the best-known facts about the Masons, but the general perception is that they have just one password. In fact, there are several passwords for various occasions and reasons. As the one person with the final syllable for the ultimate secret word was murdered, they substituted “mor-bon-zi” for this word, and only very few people know the actual secret word. This secret word is used only for ceremonies: “tu-bal-cain” is the more common secret password, on the tip of every Freemason tongue.  
4. The initiation rituals- though described by Masons as beautiful ceremonies – include a noose. It’s hard to tell whether this is meant as a threat, a call to maintain silence, or simply as the symbol of an umbilical cord (as they claim), but in any case: the initiate is blindfolded, with his left trouser leg rolled up to the knee and his shirt partially unbuttoned to expose his left nipple, and a noose is placed around his neck. The new member must promise to uphold Masonic traditions and not divulge any of the society's secrets. Traditionally, this promise was accompanied by various bloodthirsty punishments (such as having your tongue torn out and being buried alive below the high water mark), however, in deference to modern sensibilities these lines have now been largely excised or euphemistically referred to as the "traditional penalties." 
5. Freemasons believe that the east symbolizes rebirth. They sing the sun in its flight – marvelling at its passage through the sky. Masonic lodges tend to be built in the east and in the west, as an attempt to control solar power for their own purposes. 
6. It’s impossible to become a Freemason if you’re an atheist. The first requirement is that potential members must believe in a higher power of some sort. They claim not to care what higher power that is, but you must define it for yourself. You can lie about it, but religion seems to be a point of honor among them. On the other hand, traditionally excluded groups – such as gay men – are included in Masonry, so long as they behave in the same moral manner as other groups. The temple still excludes women, but some groups are currently challenging that fact.
7. The official corruption of Masonry is well-documented, but often covered up. Half a million Masons in England are disproportionately involved in banking, politics, and government. Even hospitals and universities are often controlled by the Masons
8. If you’ve ever looked closely at the US dollar bill, you’ve probably seen the All-Seeing Eye above the pyramid. This symbol is a Freemason symbol, and the Latin underneath is a Freemason motto, meaning “new world order”. Many say that the decision to include this masonic symbol was not influenced by Freemasons – Benjamin Franklin being the only Mason on the design committee – but the coincidence remains fascinating all the same.  
9. Breivik – responsible for the 2011 mass murder in Norway – was a member of the Lodge of St. Olaf in Oslo. He was promptly excluded – but his degree of involvement within the organization is open for debate.
That a Mason did this DOES NOT reflect on Masons as a group. Timothy McVeigh was raised Catholic and before his execution accepted the Catholic sacrament. 
10. Some say that Masons have an agenda to take over the world – but some Masons seem to have their sights set on the moon. Astronauts in the Apollo program – including Buzz Aldrin – were self-professed Masons. Their rite flags have been to the moon and back, and Aldrin seems to have claimed the moon for his Masonic lodge in Texas.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2014)

Where do you get your information from?

And yes I am a Mason.


----------



## Njaco (Sep 10, 2014)

Sounds like pledging at a college frat.

Secret handshakes are corrupting the morals of the country!


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 10, 2014)

Have you ever noticed that anything the Vatican didn't like, have become vilified in popular culture or eliminated entirely?

An example: Illuminati...it was a secret organization but it was founded on the principles of doing good and promoting the values of education. Vatican feared it, so it was vilified and disbanded. Not much of a possibility of world domination, since there hasn't been an official member of the Illuminati living for centuries.

Freemasons: Vatican feared it so it's vilified although it has managed to survive. And for the record, if the Masons have been plotting world domination, at what point should it occur, since the Masonic order has been around for centuries... 

Templars and Teutonic Knights: Vatican both feared them and coveted their wealth and influence. This led to the Vatican engineering their demise one way or another.

So then, what's the difference between the Masons and the International Order of Odd-fellows, or the Elks Lodge, the Boy Scouts or any college fraternity?

Not much, really...except the Vatican hasn't condemned them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2014)

GrauGeist said:


> So then, what's the difference between the Masons and the International Order of Odd-fellows, or the Elks Lodge, the Boy Scouts or any college fraternity?
> 
> Not much, really...except the Vatican hasn't condemned them.



Well they won't condemn the Boy Scouts because they are a supply of prey for the Preachers...

Que drum sound...

I kid, I kid...

Reactions: Bacon Bacon:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## bobbysocks (Sep 10, 2014)

templars in north america....most certainly happened...this is where they hid the holy grail. latest theory believes it is buried under the drive thru window of a Bob's Big Boy burger joint in jersey.


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 10, 2014)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Well they won't condemn the Boy Scouts because they are a supply of prey for the Preachers...
> 
> Que drum sound...
> 
> I kid, I kid...


ouch! dayum!!


----------



## mikewint (Sep 10, 2014)

Chris, et al, I am not anti-anthing except the WBC (May each and everyone of them rot in you-know-where). I had one close friend who became a Mason years ago and a few things were related to me personally though he pretty quickly refused to speak about anything Masonic. When I asked why he gave the usual, i.e., business contacts and indeed coincidently? his business took a rather quick upturn.
Any online research will turn up tons of pro con articles. I tried to pick out consistant statements. I would also add that those who join generally move to up to 3rd degree and stay there. Very few move any higher. So how many 3rd degree Masons know what is going on at the 30th degree? Probably the same number of Americans who know what is going on in the heart of the CIA.
That being said the following US Presidents were Masons: George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, Howard Taft, Warren Harding, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Gerald Ford. Lincoln applied for membership but never returned to complete the process. LBJ was a 1st degree but never continued. Regan was an Honorary member of the Shrine and held a ceremony in the Oval Office where a group of Masons presented him with a certificate making him an Honorary Scottish Rite Mason. George Bush was also not a Mason though he took his oath of office on the George Washington Bible owned by the St. John's Lodge in New York.
I am always open to learning and if anything is in error please correct


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2014)

mikewint said:


> Chris, et al, I am not anti-anthing except the WBC (May each and everyone of them rot in you-know-where). I had one close friend who became a Mason years ago and a few things were related to me personally though he pretty quickly refused to speak about anything Masonic. When I asked why he gave the usual, i.e., business contacts and indeed coincidently? his business took a rather quick upturn.
> Any online research will turn up tons of pro con articles. I tried to pick out consistant statements. I would also add that those who join generally move to up to 3rd degree and stay there. Very few move any higher. So how many 3rd degree Masons know what is going on at the 30th degree? Probably the same number of Americans who know what is going on in the heart of the CIA.
> That being said the following US Presidents were Masons: George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, Howard Taft, Warren Harding, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Gerald Ford. Lincoln applied for membership but never returned to complete the process. LBJ was a 1st degree but never continued. Regan was an Honorary member of the Shrine and held a ceremony in the Oval Office where a group of Masons presented him with a certificate making him an Honorary Scottish Rite Mason. George Bush was also not a Mason though he took his oath of office on the George Washington Bible owned by the St. John's Lodge in New York.
> I am always open to learning and if anything is in error please correct



I did not ask if you where anti. I only asked where you get your info, because you not believe everything you read on the internet.

Please explain to thme forum what the 33rd degree is?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2014)

mikewint said:


> Chris, et al, I am not anti-anthing except the WBC (May each and everyone of them rot in you-know-where). I had one close friend who became a Mason years ago and a few things were related to me personally though he pretty quickly refused to speak about anything Masonic. When I asked why he gave the usual, i.e., business contacts and indeed coincidently? his business took a rather quick upturn.
> Any online research will turn up tons of pro con articles. I tried to pick out consistant statements. I would also add that those who join generally move to up to 3rd degree and stay there. Very few move any higher. So how many 3rd degree Masons know what is going on at the 30th degree? Probably the same number of Americans who know what is going on in the heart of the CIA.
> That being said the following US Presidents were Masons: George Washington, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, James Polk, James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, James Garfield, William McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt, Howard Taft, Warren Harding, Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Gerald Ford. Lincoln applied for membership but never returned to complete the process. LBJ was a 1st degree but never continued. Regan was an Honorary member of the Shrine and held a ceremony in the Oval Office where a group of Masons presented him with a certificate making him an Honorary Scottish Rite Mason. George Bush was also not a Mason though he took his oath of office on the George Washington Bible owned by the St. John's Lodge in New York.
> I am always open to learning and if anything is in error please correct



I did not ask if you where anti. I only asked where you get your info, because you not believe everything you read on the internet.

Also please explain what the 33rd degree is since you make it out to be something clandestine.


----------



## Njaco (Sep 10, 2014)

No offense Mike. I just want to relay my personal experience which was uber positive during my teen years. None of this "secret this" and "secret that" I saw as harmful. Who hasn't at one time kept a secret or was a member of some secret club? People hate and attack those things they don't understand or can not be a part of.


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 10, 2014)

I have had members of the family that have held higher positions in the Lodge, including my steddad's side.

One thing there is not alot of, is personal effects, since they are mostly buried with them after they have passed. One exception, is my stepdad's Father's sword, which bears traditional Masonic icons and additional symbols reflecting his station.

Oddly enough, when I've held the sword in the past, nothing happened: no temporal rifts opened, no thunderbolts shooting all over, no gregorian chants while the room grew dark and misty (although all of that would have been seriously badass if it did)...

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## mikewint (Sep 10, 2014)

Had to reduce it to fit but this does it much better than I could. Degrees are only in the Scottish rite and an individual can only earn the 32 degree: Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret (which is? that's why people conjecture). The 33rd degree is awarded by the Supreme Council of the Rite: Soverign Grand Inspector General.
The open book is the Bible and in the US the "G" stands for God


----------



## bobbysocks (Sep 10, 2014)

33 degree is the rank you have reached. there are classes and rituals all the way up. at each level you are privy to more information ( secrets...)


----------



## gumbyk (Sep 10, 2014)

mikewint said:


> 6. It’s impossible to become a Freemason if you’re an atheist. The first requirement is that potential members must believe in a higher power of some sort. They claim not to care what higher power that is, but you must define it for yourself. You can lie about it, but religion seems to be a point of honor among them. On the other hand, traditionally excluded groups – such as gay men – are included in Masonry, so long as they behave in the same moral manner as other groups. The temple still excludes women, but some groups are currently challenging that fact.
> 9. Breivik – responsible for the 2011 mass murder in Norway – was a member of the Lodge of St. Olaf in Oslo. He was promptly excluded – but his degree of involvement within the organization is open for debate.
> That a Mason did this DOES NOT reflect on Masons as a group. Timothy McVeigh was raised Catholic and before his execution accepted the Catholic sacrament.



There are lots of things you can't become if you're an atheist.
A naturalised American for one.
There are a number of states where you cannot hold public office if you're an atheist.

I may be biased, but the Mason's specifically excluded a mass-murderer, and the Catholic Church opened it arms to one? Which one sounds more moral?

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## parsifal (Sep 11, 2014)

Ive got no opinion on this one way or the other. I was very surprised however that the knights templar issue still raises such strong feelings

THE DARK HISTORY OF THE TEMPLARS


----------



## stona (Sep 11, 2014)

Njaco said:


> Wow, I don't know about apologist but I know I was never taught nor experience any of the things posted.
> I would love to know where this gem came from since I, myself was Chaplain for my Chapter and there was a book I read from. Oh, yes, the Holy Bible - King James version.



The Vatican is where that gem comes from. Even today you cannot be a practicing catholic and a freemason as you would be in a state of grave sin with all the penalties that incurs from the Church.

The Roman Church considers many sects and organisations as anti catholic or anti Christian, including some other non catholic churches though it tries to mitigate this by blurring the line today. I remember the then pope and senior prelate of the English Church (Archbishop of Canterbury) praying together a few years ago. It made me smile because the Archbishop though recognised as a Christian brother, is in an imperfect relationship with the church. Some protestants are so imperfect that they are essentially heretics. A 17th century puritan would fall into that category as he got on the boat for the New World 

One of the charges levelled against the Templars was that they denied the Holy Trinity, that is they denied the Divinity of Christ. This is a very old and oft repeated heresy which is alleged to have been passed on to Freemasonry. Notice that it does not deny the existence of a God or supreme being, just one of the fundamental tenets of post third century Christianity. It is a belief shared by the two other principle monotheistic religions, neither of which believe in the Christian Trinity or divinity of Christ, including Judaism of course, which certainly worried the early Church.

Most freemasons are simply unaware of all this mumbo jumbo because it is of no concern to them and they never intend to progress to the higher degrees of knowledge (if it is that) in any case.

Cheers

Steve


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 11, 2014)

Hmmm...?

I will leave it at that.


----------



## gumbyk (Sep 11, 2014)

parsifal said:


> Ive got no opinion on this one way or the other. I was very surprised however that the knights templar issue still raises such strong feelings
> 
> THE DARK HISTORY OF THE TEMPLARS



I don't know how much I'd trust a website that starts out by saying that the crusades weren't motivated by Christianity.


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 11, 2014)

gumbyk said:


> I don't know how much I'd trust a website that starts out by saying that the crusades weren't motivated by Christianity.


Yeah, that and the twisting and turning of the narrative.

I like how it passed quickly over the fact that after the crusades, a good number of European monarchs owed the Templars money. And as the Monarch's debt increased, so to, did the rumors of devil worship, eating babies and kicking kittens.

And there is the usual "Templars are Freemasons" and "Templars owned Switzerland" and the dumbing down of the Saracen attrocities...

The author of this website should get together with Nicholas Cage and do a sequel to "National Treasure"...of course, there won't be any accuracy to the movie (as usual), but it should be mildy entertaining.


----------



## Siddley (Sep 11, 2014)

" Knights Templar " wouldn't be a bad name for an outlaw motorcycle club. Not a great name, but pretty OK


----------



## parsifal (Sep 11, 2014)

you notice how that article I posted doesn't give sources or identify its author. You gotta question it just from that perspective. I suspect an Islamic source. but its the emotion, the sheer hatred that surprised me....dressed up to look scholarly and impartial.....


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 11, 2014)

parsifal said:


> you notice how that article I posted doesn't give sources or identify its author. You gotta question it just from that perspective. I suspect an Islamic source. but its the emotion, the sheer hatred that surprised me....dressed up to look scholarly and impartial.....


Agreed...notice how the Templars are accused of doing something the Sarecens were notorious for?

The sad thing about the internet, is that it was originally intended to be a rapid exchange of information between institutions and organizations.

Since then, it's original design has degraded into a hotbed of conspiracies, misinformation and half-educated opinion.

As far as references contained in the article, there are some. Yet they too, are of the same caliber as this author.


----------



## stona (Sep 12, 2014)

Well he got the charges laid against the Order correct. More detail did survive. Individuals were charged not just with denying Christ (not his existence but that he was God, part of the Trinity) but also 'trampling' and 'spitting' on the Holy Cross. That doesn't sound terribly Christian to me.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## soulezoo (Sep 12, 2014)

That seemed to be a barely held secret... 




DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Where do you get your information from?
> 
> And yes I am a Mason.


----------



## soulezoo (Sep 12, 2014)

I've been invited a few times to become a Mason. I just wasn't that interested. But the guys inviting were all squared away and stand up guys perhaps better men than I. 

To all the Mason bashing... I see no evidence of evil afoot. I do however see an awful lot of charity done. One of my close friends was one of the Keystone Kops in the parades. I knew him well... secret evil take over the world stuff. No. Drank a bit too much... ok. 

It's like whats been mentioned earlier, things humans are ignorant of and do not have unfettered access to, become subject to all kinds of untruths and slander. People need to get a life.

To you masons in the thread, I'll drink with you anytime... and don't care about your "secrets".


----------



## soulezoo (Sep 12, 2014)

And wasn't the thread about Templars in North America anyway?


----------



## ccheese (Sep 12, 2014)

mikewint said:


> The Freemasons are one of the most secretive and controversial religious groups in the world. Masons have existed for centuries – and if we are to believe their claims, they’ve existed covertly for even longer. Whatever their history, speculation has always been an enjoyable pastime – and this is especially true in the case of the Masons. Their secrecy fuels the speculation and the few things that are known add fuel. Having passed down traditions and secrets from one generation of initiates to the next, they make it difficult to know what’s outdated and what’s still practiced. Connecting this thread to another current thread:
> Speculation at the time was that Freemasons were behind the series of attacks attributed to Jack the Ripper. The Rippers' mutilation of his victims was supposed to represent the symbolic penalties imposed on a Brother who revealed the secrets of the Lodge. According to people like Stephen Knight and Walter Sickert, it was a plot devised by Sir William Gull to cover up the fact that Edward, Duke of Clarence and heir to the throne had secretly married a prostitute and fathered a child. (In fact, Sir William Gull was not even a Freemason, but this does not discourage the story.) Even the mysterious message left behind by the Ripper, "The Juwes Are The Men That Will Not Be Blamed For Nothing" was supposed to be masonic, with "the Juwes" referring to the 3 masons of masonic ritual who murdered Hiram Abif: Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum.
> Consider these ten masonic activities as possible facts.
> 1. Freemasons are commanded not to testify truthfully when another Mason is on trial if that truth would harm their brother. They admit that it may be perjury, but to them, it is a far greater sin to not protect one of their own.
> ...



Mike: Where do you get your information ?? Oh, BTW, I am a Master Master... over 35 years since I opened the door to the "west gate"

Let's tale your numbered items, above:

1. B.S. News to me. A Mason is always encouraged to tell the truth. Years ago I was a witness as a Masonic Trial. The man accused was a Past Master and the charges were gambling or causing a gambling enterprise in the Lodge. He was found guilty and expelled from the Masons.

2. This is true. You have to remember, the Masons are not a 'secret society', but a society with secrets.

3. Partially true. There is a password for each of the three degrees in the "blue lodge" "mor-bon-zi" ???
Never heard of it.

4. There is no place in a lodge for a noose ! In the initiation ceremony, a "cable-tow" is placed very loosely around the candidate's neck. Supposedly, if the candidate refuses to participate in the ceremony, he could be dragged from the Lodge. Never seen it happen.

5. Not sure what you are trying to say, here. Masonic lodges are built so the sun never shines into it's North.

6. Partially true. You must believe in "a supreme being" regardless of what you call him. I was at an initiation, years ago, where the candidate was asked in whom he put his trust. His answer was "Jehovah". The Master of the Lodge continued on with the initiation. Gay men are welcomed in any of the four Va. Beach Lodged I attend.

7. The only hospital in the U.S.A that is* possibly* controlled by Masons is The Shriner's Hospital for Children. Shriners Hospitals for Children is a network of 22 medical facilities across North America. Children with orthopedic conditions, burns, spinal cord injuries, and cleft lip and palate are eligible for care and receive all services in a family-centered environment, regardless of the patients’ ability to pay.

Headquartered in Tampa, Florida, the hospitals, known as "The World's Greatest Philanthropy," are owned and operated by Shriners International, formerly known as the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, a Freemasonry-related organization simply known today as the Shriners. Patients must be minors under the age of 18 and are not required to have any familial affiliation with the Shriners order nor Freemasonry.

As it sez it para 1, no child's parents have ever been asked to pay for services. FYI, the Shriners give away $1 million dollars a day, every day of the year !!

8. Partially true. I've never heard of "a new world order".

9. Never heard this one.

10. Pure B.S.

Just in case my Masonic Brother, Chris, seems to think I've given away the farm, I assure you I have not said anything that is not written. If it's written, it's not secret.

As for you, Mike, I suggest you do some more research.

Charles
Lynnhaven Lodge #220
Va. Beach, VA.

Reactions: Bacon Bacon:
3 | Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2014)

soulezoo said:


> That seemed to be a barely held secret...



There is no reason to be secretive of being one...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2014)

soulezoo said:


> And wasn't the thread about Templars in North America anyway?



Yeah but it always leads to Masonic discussion.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2014)

ccheese said:


> Mike: Where do you get your information ?? Oh, BTW, I am a Master Master... over 35 years since I opened the door to the "west gate"
> 
> Let's tale your numbered items, above:
> 
> ...



No worries Brother Charles. I was waiting for him to explain where he gets this nonsense from before I chimed in. You however did a much better job than I could.

Everything you have said can be found on the internet anyhow...

People just choose to believe the BS they hear because they are afraid of what they don't understand. Hollywood does not help either...

Reactions: Bacon Bacon:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Njaco (Sep 12, 2014)

...on the other hand, the Knights Templar were the origins of Friday the 13th!


----------



## parsifal (Sep 12, 2014)

really. I learn something every day. why is the number 13 considered unlucky? You would think 6 or any combination of 6 would be a more likely contender.....

And why is friday considered unlucky....something to do with Christs cruxifixion i expect, but if Christs sacrifice is meant to be our good fortune, wouldnt it mean that friday should be considered a lucky day.

i know I consider friday to be a lucky day.....right before the weekend for me....now mondays, they are a different story altogether.


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 12, 2014)

The legend of the number 13 being unlucky goes back to the Last Supper: where Jesus and his disciples numbered 12, but add Judas of Iscariot and you have the number 13...


----------



## mikewint (Sep 13, 2014)

I personally see no Mason bashing. Secret Societies OF ANY TYPE invite speculation. And Human Nature being what it is we seldom hide the good it is the evil we hide. The Templar, Freemasons, Illuminati, ect. whether in truth or not are linked:
Jacques de Molay’s death marked the end of the history of the Templars, but it was only the beginning of the history of the Templar myth. That myth has essentially nothing to do with the historical Knights Templar, and everything to do with the history of secret societies in the western world from the 1730s to the present.
At the time of the Templars’ destruction, and for hundreds of years thereafter, almost everyone in Europe believed that Philip IV had destroyed the Templars to get at their wealth, and only a handful of propagandists for the French royal house and the official historians of the Papacy even claimed to believe the stories about heresy and the worship of Baphomet. The contemporary poet Dante Alighieri, whose great poem The Divine Comedy commented on most of the events of his time, referred to the Templars’ fate in Canto XX of the Purgatorio as purely a result of Philip’s greed and spite. The great Renaissance legal theorist Jean Bodin, two centuries later, cited the Templars as a classic example of a group oppressed and destroyed by an unjust monarch. Until the middle of the eighteenth century, this view and the orthodox claim that the Templars had done exactly what Philip IV said they did were the only opinions about the Templars in circulation.
Abruptly, in the late 1730s, a third set of claims began to appear, insisting that the Templars were the secret guardians of an ancient wisdom ruthlessly suppressed by the forces of orthodoxy. These first surfaced in Masonic circles in France linked to the Jacobites – supporters of the exiled House of Stuart – and drew their theme from the famous 1736 Masonic address of the Chevalier Andrew Ramsay, an influential Jacobite who argued that Freemasonry itself was descended from the knightly orders of the Crusades.
Within a few years of Ramsay’s address, rumors circulated through the French court about a new, “Scottish” Freemasonry above the three Craft degrees of ordinary Masonry. French sources claim that the first Scottish system was launched by Ramsay himself and included the three degrees of Scottish Master, Novice, and Knight of the Temple. More degrees followed; a 1744 pamphlet from Paris claims that there were six or seven degrees above Master Mason at that time, while in 1751 most French lodges worked a system of nine degrees.
Central to the entire system of Scottish degrees was the claim that they descended from Templar traditions preserved in Scotland, and that the Templars themselves had been guardians of an ancient wisdom that now survived in the higher degrees of Freemasonry. Many historians of Freemasonry have argued that the entire Templar myth was created by Jacobite propagandists at this time, as part of a struggle for control of French Freemasonry between Jacobites and their opponents.
After the catastrophic defeat of the Jacobite rising of 1745 several different systems of Scottish Masonry surfaced in public, among them the Royal Order of Scotland in The Hague in 1750, the Rite of Perfection (the source of today’s Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite) in Paris in 1754, and the Rite of Strict Observance in Saxony, also in 1754. All these rites had connections to the Jacobite court in exile and included, as part of their teachings, the claim that surviving Templars had carried their mysteries to Scotland in the years after 1307 and established Freemasonry there. This claim was originally a secret teaching but, like most Masonic secrets, it slipped out at an early date, and sparked a lively market for Templar degrees within Masonry. Eighteenth-century Masonry being what it was, supply soon caught up with demand, and soon more than a dozen newly minted Templar rites with no connection to the Stuart cause competed with the Scottish degrees for membership and influence. The Order of the Golden and Rosy Cross, an eighteenth-century German Rosicrucian order, also found room for the Templars in their origin story, claiming that Templars were initiated in 1188 into the Rosicrucian order, originally founded in Alexandria in 96 CE, and brought its teachings back to Europe with them.
The next major element of the Templar myth arrived by way of the French Revolution. Many of the liberals who originally supported the National Assembly in its struggle against royal privilege in the heady days of 1789 were Freemasons. During the Revolution years, a handful of journalists turned this fact into the foundation for a claim that the Revolution itself had been hatched as a Masonic plot. One contributor to this literature was Charles-Louis Cadet de Gassicourt, a former radical whose book Le Tombeau de Jacques Molay (1796) claimed that the Freemasons were exacting their vengeance against the French monarchy for the death of Jacques de Molay. Cadet de Gassicourt’s book also introduced the idea that the Templars had been influenced by the Order of Assassins, and strung together more than a dozen unrelated secret societies into a supposedly continuous tradition of anarchist conspirators plotting across the centuries.
The two great founders of modern conspiracy theory, Augustin de Barruel and John Robison, both drew on Cadet de Gassicourt’s work in claiming that Freemasonry had been infiltrated by a vast conspiracy against religions and governments. See antimasonry.
Far more influential than either of these authors in shaping the Templar myth, however, was the Austrian scholar Joseph von Hammer-Purgstall, whose Mysterium Baphometis Revelatum (1818 ) and several later books argued that the Templars had been Gnostic heretics, practicing an orgiastic cult of the goddess Achamoth or Baphomet passed on in secret since the third century CE. His books on the Templars were part of a deliberate strategy of disinformation meant to tar the revolutionary secret societies of the era with charges of sexual deviance, religious heresy, and occult practices.
All the elements of the Templar mythology just surveyed remain live options in the alternative scene today, and many have penetrated popular culture as well. Bestselling books repeat the old claims of a Templar origin for Freemasonry and link the Templars to Gnostics, Assassins, and others. New elements have entered the myth in recent years; Pierre Plantard’s extraordinary Priory of Sion hoax, and its various mutations at the hands of other authors, grafted an entirely new body of fable onto the existing mythology, centering on the Merovingian kings of Dark Age France, the alleged mysteries of Rennes-le-Château, and exotic accounts of Christian origins. These same speculative claims have also found a home in the world of popular fiction, most notably in Dan Brown’s bestselling novel The Da Vinci Code (2003).


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 13, 2014)

The Templars aren't the first to have a "mystique" about them, the Roman Equites were often speculated upon because they tended to keep their business to themselves...


----------



## Lucky13 (Sep 13, 2014)

The French King, moved in on the Knight Templars, on the Friday the 13th, if I remember correctly....


----------



## Njaco (Sep 13, 2014)

_from Wiki......_On Friday, 13 October 1307, hundreds of the Knights Templar were arrested in France, an action apparently motivated financially and undertaken by the efficient royal bureaucracy to increase the prestige of the crown. Philip IV was the force behind this ruthless move, but it has also tarnished the historical reputation of Clement V. From the very day of Clement V's coronation, the king falsely charged the Templars with heresy, immorality and abuses, and the scruples of the Pope were compromised by a growing sense that the burgeoning French State might not wait for the Church, but would proceed independently. It is further said Jacques de Molay, Magister (Master of the Knights of the Temple) cursed King Philip IV of France and his descendants from his execution pyre. As he was about to be executed, he appealed “from this your heinous judgement to the living and true God, who is in Heaven”, warning the pope that, within a year and a day, he and Philip IV would be obliged to answer for their crimes in God’s presence. Philip and Clement V both died within a year of Molay’s execution. However, experts agree that this is a relatively recent correlation, and most likely a modern-day invention.


----------



## Marcel (Sep 13, 2014)

Ah there is something I know absolutely nothing about. I know we have free masons here in the Netherlands. One lodge was even close to my childhoods town in a pretty little castle in Groningen. Have even been in there and a very nice person told us all about things. Didn't understand it as I was 5 or 6 at the time. As I said, I've got no idea what it all means. Tried to read the wiki about them, but got lost in levels and stuff. Can I ask what it means to be a mason? Do you have to go to the lodge at certain times, like Christians go to church? Sorry for the naive questions, as I said, I don't know anything about it.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 13, 2014)

Marcel said:


> Ah there is something I know absolutely nothing about. I know we have free masons here in the Netherlands. One lodge was even close to my childhoods town in a pretty little castle in Groningen. Have even been in there and a very nice person told us all about things. Didn't understand it as I was 5 or 6 at the time. As I said, I've got no idea what it all means. Tried to read the wiki about them, but got lost in levels and stuff. Can I ask what it means to be a mason? Do you have to go to the lodge at certain times, like Christians go to church? Sorry for the naive questions, as I said, I don't know anything about it.



Evert lodge is different. I am a member of two lodges. Granted one is in Germany, and one here where I live. Both meet regularly once a month, but do get together in between that once a month for other things. We support the community and many charities. 

Every Mason has their own reasons. For me it is about making a good man a better one. It is about character and being with like minded people.

Reactions: Bacon Bacon:
2 | Like Like:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## A4K (Sep 13, 2014)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Every Mason has their own reasons. For me it is about making a good man a better one. It is about character and being with like minded people.



Don't know anything about the Masons myself, but that sounds as good a reason as any to be one!


----------



## parsifal (Sep 13, 2014)

There probably are bad people who happen to be masons, just like there are bad people who happen to be cops, or priests or teachers, or Baptists. Doesnt mean that freemasonary is a bad thing. it means that its a human organization, and like all human organizations, its subject to the vagaries of human imperfection.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 13, 2014)

Add to that, the "mystique" of being a closed organization.

In otherwords: if you have a room full of people and you leave to another room, closing the door behind you, they will die of curiousity, wondering what's going on behind that closed door.


----------



## Marcel (Sep 14, 2014)

gumbyk said:


> I may be biased, but the Mason's specifically excluded a mass-murderer, and the Catholic Church opened it arms to one? Which one sounds more moral?



True Christianity believes in forgiveness of sins. The idea is that it's not up to us to convict, but up to god. Therefore every church should be open to any individual. Revence should not be part of the church. At least that's the teaching of Jesus. Unfortunately the church doesn't always do what they should preach. But in this case this is perfectly sound to the principe and in my eyes very moral.


----------



## Marcel (Sep 14, 2014)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Evert lodge is different. I am a member of two lodges. Granted one is in Germany, and one here where I live. Both meet regularly once a month, but do get together in between that once a month for other things. We support the community and many charities.
> 
> Every Mason has their own reasons. For me it is about making a good man a better one. It is about character and being with like minded people.


The last sentence sounds a bit like the forum  ( apart from becoming a better man  ). 

But on the serious part, not wanting to ask you secrets, but is it about moral and values of life and such? What defines "a better man"?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 14, 2014)

Marcel said:


> The last sentence sounds a bit like the forum  ( apart from becoming a better man  ).
> 
> But on the serious part, not wanting to ask you secrets, but is it about moral and values of life and such? What defines "a better man"?



Better can be anything you want it to be. I am not saying better than other people, but better as an individual. Everyone has their own morals and values. For me Masonry only broadens in.


----------



## Marcel (Sep 14, 2014)

Ah, thanks that's a clear answer. Sounds to me like a good goal. Good luck and I hope you succeed.

So what I understand is that this all is not a strictly described thing in masons, but the masons provide you with an environment and infuences that allow you to develop yourself freely, do I have that right?


----------



## Njaco (Sep 14, 2014)

Yes.

My experience was how our meetings were conducted. Being only 14 or 15 when I entered, I learned Roberts Rules of Order and various other ways in which to conduct myself in a civilized society. It greatly helped for my later years when I became a member of various professional clubs - CWA Union meetings, NJACO meetings, Council meetings, etc. Its a brotherhood and fraternity (not a club) that wants all its members to do well in life and does this by instilling and practicing standards and beliefs. Because its secret doesn't mean anything other than what GG said, a human condition. The answer to that would be why close a door - any door - behind you?


----------



## Njaco (Sep 14, 2014)

oh, and Marcel the only reason why I met you in the States is because I want to dominate the Netherlands! Think I'll change Rotterdam to Njacodam!

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Marcel (Sep 14, 2014)

Njaco said:


> oh, and Marcel the only reason why I met you in the States is because I want to dominate the Netherlands! Think I'll change Rotterdam to Njacodam!


Good start! 
That would mean you should come to the Netherlands first. You'll be welcome my friend.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## gumbyk (Sep 14, 2014)

Marcel said:


> True Christianity believes in forgiveness of sins. The idea is that it's not up to us to convict, but up to god. Therefore every church should be open to any individual. Revence should not be part of the church. At least that's the teaching of Jesus. Unfortunately the church doesn't always do what they should preach. But in this case this is perfectly sound to the principe and in my eyes very moral.


Or it doesn't, depends on what you read.

Anyway, if we head down _that_ particular discussion any further, it'll likely end up with the ban-hammer coming out, so I'll bow out of this conversation here.


----------



## Lucky13 (Sep 14, 2014)

Njaco said:


> oh, and Marcel the only reason why I met you in the States is because I want to dominate the Netherlands! Think I'll change Rotterdam to Njacodam!



That is, _if_ they let you _in!!_


----------



## Marcel (Sep 14, 2014)

gumbyk said:


> Or it doesn't, depends on what you read.
> 
> Anyway, if we head down _that_ particular discussion any further, it'll likely end up with the ban-hammer coming out, so I'll bow out of this conversation here.


Well, you started it, so you can end it as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## ccheese (Sep 21, 2014)

Me ? I'm just watching....

Charles


----------



## Lucky13 (Sep 22, 2014)

Better move on to the The Knights Hospitaller, also known as the Knights of Saint John and The Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem, or, if you like, The Teutonic Knights to save face....


----------



## Night Fighter Nut (Sep 27, 2014)

Not that this will mean much, but here are a couple of pictures of my brother fully suited up. He does this normally and over the last score of years.


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 27, 2014)

Lucky13 said:


> Better move on to the The Knights Hospitaller, also known as the Knights of Saint John and The Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem, or, if you like, The Teutonic Knights to save face....




Teutonic Knights were a different order than the Hospitaliers. "Order of Brothers of the German House of Saint Mary in Jerusalem" is the official name of the Teutonic Order aka "Ordo Teutonicus".

The Hospitaliers were founded in 1099 by Italians and the Teutonic Knights were founded in 1190 by Germans and based on the order of the Templars and pretty much came to an end as a military force in the early 1800's due to Napoleon, though what was left of the Teutonic order holed up in Austria out of Napoleon's reach (and ironically banned by the invading Nazis during WWII) and managed to survive to present day. 

After the crusades, things didn't go well for the Hospitaliers and they were pretty much holes up in Malta, but Napoleon took that over and the Hospitaliers ended up being scattered all over, including Russia, but managed to eventually find a home in Rome and in modern times, established a mission in Malta, restoring their old fort at St. Angelo for historical and cultural events.

So they are two separate orders and are very much alive and active today.


----------



## gumbyk (Sep 30, 2014)

Our New Zealand Ambulance Service is run by 'St Johns', which claims descent from the Hospitalers.


----------

