# Message to Kim Jong Il



## davparlr (Jun 23, 2006)

I think a little message was sent by Bush by staging an exercise at Guam.

Do you think this force could handle N. Korea?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 25, 2006)

I am sure it could...


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## Pisis (Jun 25, 2006)




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## Glider (Jun 25, 2006)

Looks like something from Thunderbirds


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## v2 (Jun 25, 2006)

Bad message....


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## Pisis (Jun 26, 2006)

This deserves the classic "uh oh" statement.


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## Twitch (Jun 26, 2006)

here's another message for him.


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## Pisis (Jun 26, 2006)

I think that the *Team America: World Police* was enough a message for him... LOL


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 27, 2006)

Isnt that from the movie Stealth?

That movie sucked so much balls, I turned it off real quick.


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## Aggie08 (Jun 27, 2006)

I had to watch it all... made we want to cry. everything was awful. everything.


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## MichaelHenley (Jul 1, 2006)

Yes it was from stealth. Really crap movie (what's the point of a floating tanker in the sky? pfft!). But the concept of a reverse-variable geometry fighter isnt. Because the wings flip out backwards, the aircraft can be highly manovereable in the combat zone, and can go supersonic when entering and leaving the field.


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 1, 2006)

Pisis said:


> I think that the *Team America: World Police* was enough a message for him... LOL



Apparentlly Kim Jong Ill was seriously offended by the display of the North Koreans as bad guys in the 007 Die Another Day, im just wondering why he hasnt said anything about Team America.


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## Pisis (Jul 3, 2006)




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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 4, 2006)

**** him!


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 4, 2006)

Lately he just made a big *** threat to the states, saying any aggression against NK they will nuke the states


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## Erich (Jul 4, 2006)

well peckerhead fired off two measly duds today in the oceans outside of Japan I was told. He's full of pissin wind ............


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## Gnomey (Jul 4, 2006)

Yep, the way he is going someone is going to blast the **** out of him.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | North Korea test-fires missiles


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## Pisis (Jul 7, 2006)

Yep. Team America....


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## R988 (Jul 7, 2006)

Kimbo is real Bond fan apparently, well not anymore I guess 
BBC NEWS | Programmes | Correspondent | Inside the mind of Kim Jong-il


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## syscom3 (Jul 10, 2006)

This is serious stuff. Forget Iraq, whats happening in Iran and N korea is going to be the trigger between China and the US. We are looking at the same conditions in Europe when Hitler took power. Not a quation of "if", but when.

West mounts 'secret war' to keep nuclear North Korea in check - Sunday Times - Times Online

West mounts 'secret war' to keep nuclear North Korea in check
Michael Sheridan, Far East Correspondent
A PROGRAMME of covert action against nuclear and missile traffic to North Korea and Iran is to be intensified after last week’s missile tests by the North Korean regime.

Intelligence agencies, navies and air forces from at least 13 nations are quietly co-operating in a “secret war” against Pyongyang and Tehran.

It has so far involved interceptions of North Korean ships at sea, US agents prowling the waterfronts in Taiwan, multinational naval and air surveillance missions out of Singapore, investigators poring over the books of dubious banks in the former Portuguese colony of Macau and a fleet of planes and ships eavesdropping on the “hermit kingdom” in the waters north of Japan.

Few details filter out from western officials about the programme, which has operated since 2003, or about the American financial sanctions that accompany it.

But together they have tightened a noose around Kim Jong-il’s bankrupt, hungry nation.

“Diplomacy alone has not worked, military action is not on the table and so you’ll see a persistent increase in this kind of pressure,” said a senior western official.

In a telling example of the programme’s success, two Bush administration officials indicated last year that it had blocked North Korea from obtaining equipment used to make missile propellant.

The Americans also persuaded China to stop the sale of chemicals for North Korea’s nuclear weapons scientists. And a shipload of “precursor chemicals” for weapons was seized in Taiwan before it could reach a North Korean port.

According to John Bolton, the US ambassador to the United Nations and the man who originally devised the programme, it has made a serious dent in North Korea’s revenues from ballistic missile sales.

But the success of Bolton’s brainchild, the Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI), whose stated aim is to stop the traffic in weapons of mass destruction, might also push North Korea into extreme reactions.

Britain is a core member of the initiative, which was announced by President George W Bush in Krakow, Poland, on May 31, 2003. British officials have since joined meetings of “operational experts” in Australia, Europe and the US, while the Royal Navy has contributed ships to PSI exercises. The participants include Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Italy, Spain and Singapore, among others.

There has been almost no public debate in the countries committed to military involvement. A report for the US Congress said it had “no international secretariat, no offices in federal agencies established to support it, no database or reports of successes and failures and no established funding”.

To Bolton and senior British officials, those vague qualities make it politically attractive.

In the past 10 months, since the collapse of six-nation talks in Beijing on North Korea’s nuclear weapons, the US and its allies have also tightened the screws on Kim’s clandestine fundraising, which generated some $500m a year for the regime.

Robert Joseph, the US undersecretary for arms control, has disclosed that 11 North Korean “entities” — trading companies or banks — plus six from Iran and one from Syria were singled out for action under an executive order numbered 13382 and signed by Bush.

For the first time, the US Secret Service and the FBI released details of North Korean involvement in forging $100 notes and in selling counterfeit Viagra, cigarettes and amphetamines in collaboration with Chinese gangsters.

The investigators homed in on a North Korean trading company and two banks in Macau. The firm, which had offices next to a casino and a “sauna”, was run by North Koreans with diplomatic passports, who promptly vanished.

The two banks, Seng Heng bank and Banco Delta Asia, denied any wrongdoing. But the Macau authorities stepped in after a run on Banco Delta Asia and froze some $20m in North Korean accounts.


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## syscom3 (Jul 10, 2006)

Last week the North Koreans demanded the money as a precondition for talks but the Americans brushed off their protest.

Kim told Hu Jintao, the Chinese president in January that his government was being strangled, diplomats in the Chinese capital said. “He has warned the Chinese leaders his regime could collapse and he knows that is the last thing we want,” said a Chinese source close to the foreign ministry.

The risk being assessed between Washington and Tokyo this weekend is how far Kim can be pushed against the wall before he undertakes something more lethal than last week’s display of force.

The “Dear Leader” has turned North Korea into a military-dominated state to preserve his own inherited role at the apex of a Stalinist personality cult. Although he appears erratic, and North Korea’s rhetoric is extreme, most diplomats who have met him think Kim is highly calculating.

“He is a very tough Korean nationalist and he knows exactly how to play the power game — very hard,” said Professor Shi Yinhong, an expert in Beijing.

But the costly failure of Kim’s intercontinental missile, the Taepodong 2, after just 42 seconds of flight last Wednesday, was a blow to his prestige and to the force of his deterrent. Six other short and medium-range missiles splashed into the Sea of Japan without making any serious military point.

The United States and its allies are now preoccupied by what Kim might do with the trump card in his arsenal — his stockpile of plutonium for nuclear bombs.

“The real danger is that the North Koreans could sell their plutonium to another rogue state — read Iran — or to terrorists,” said a western diplomat who has served in Pyongyang. American officials fear Iran is negotiating to buy plutonium from North Korea in a move that would confound the international effort to stop Tehran’s nuclear weapons programme.

The prospect of such a sale is “the next big thing”, said a western diplomat involved with the issue. The White House commissioned an intelligence study on the risk last December but drew no firm conclusions.

Plutonium was the element used in the atomic bomb that destroyed Nagasaki in 1945. It would give Iran a rapid route to the bomb as an alternative to the conspicuous process of enriching uranium which is the focus of international concern.

American nuclear scientists estimate North Korea is “highly likely” to have about 43kg and perhaps as much as 53kg of the material. Between 7kg and 9kg are needed for a weapon.

Siegfried Hecker, former head of the US Los Alamos nuclear weapons laboratory, has warned that North Korea’s plutonium would fit into a few suitcases and would be impossible to detect if it were sold.

For the first time since the crisis over its nuclear ambitions began in 1994, North Korea has made enough plutonium to sell a quantity to its ally while keeping sufficient for its own use.

North Korea is known to have sold 1.7 tons of uranium to Libya. It has sold ballistic missiles to Iran since the 1980s. American officials have said Iran is already exchanging missile test data for nuclear technology from Pyongyang. The exchanges probably involve flight monitoring for Scud-type rockets and techniques of uranium centrifuge operation.

Relations deepened between the two surviving regimes in Bush’s “axis of evil” after the fall of Saddam Hussein. Under President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran’s military and scientific links with North Korea have grown rapidly.

Last November western intelligence sources told the German magazine Der Spiegel that a high-ranking Iranian official had travelled to Pyongyang to offer oil and natural gas in exchange for more co-operation on nuclear technology and ballistic missiles. Iran’s foreign ministry denied the report but diplomats in Beijing and Pyongyang believe it was accurate. At the same time evidence emerged through Iranian dissidents in exile that North Korean experts were helping Iran build nuclear-capable missiles in a vast tunnel complex under the Khojir and Bar Jamali mountains near Tehran.

So while one nation, North Korea, boasts of its nuclear weapons and the other, Iran, denies wanting them at all, the world is on edge. If the stakes are high in the nuclear terror game, they are equally high for the balance of power in Asia and thus for global prosperity.

North Korea’s aggressive behaviour and a record of kidnapping Japanese citizens have created new willpower among politicians in Tokyo to strengthen their military forces. To China, Japan’s wartime adversary, that signals a worrying change in the strategic equation. Nationalism in both countries is on the rise. Relations between the two are at their worst for decades.

One scenario is that Japan abandons its pacifist doctrine and becomes a nuclear weapons power. “The Japanese people are very angry and very worried and, right now, they will accept any government plan for the military,” said Tetsuo Maeda, professor of defence studies at Tokyo International University.


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## syscom3 (Jul 10, 2006)

The mood favours the ascent of Shinzo Abe, Japan’s hawkish chief cabinet secretary, the man most likely to take over from Junichiro Koizumi, the prime minister, who steps down in September. “He will be far more hardline on Pyongyang and I’m firmly of the opinion that he intends to make Japan into a nuclear power,” Maeda said.

The government is already committed to installing defensive Pac-3 Patriot missiles in co-operation with the Americans. But radical opinion in Japan has been fortified by Kim’s adventures.

“The vast majority of Japanese agree that we need to be able to carry out first strikes,” said Yoichi Shimada, a professor of international relations at Fukui Prefectural University.

“I spoke to Mr Abe earlier this week and he shares my opinion that for Japan, the most important step would be for Japan to have an offensive missile capability.”

Such talk causes severe concern to Washington, which has sheltered Japan under the umbrella of its nuclear arsenal since forging a security alliance after the second world war.

Divisions within the Bush administration — which even sympathisers concede have paralysed its nuclear diplomacy towards the North — also served to undermine Japanese confidence in America, as have the well-documented failings of American intelligence.

Dan Goure of the Lexington Institute, a think tank with ties to the Pentagon, says: “There’s no human intelligence in North Korea. Zero. Zippo. It’s like looking at your neighbour’s house with a pair of binoculars — and they’ve got their blinds shut.”

Last week Bush was working the phones to the leaders of China and Russia. But British officials think it unlikely that either will support a Japanese proposal for UN sanctions on the North Koreans.

That leaves the Bush administration with the same unpalatable choices that existed a week, a month or a year ago. The military option, to all practical purposes, does not exist. “An attack is highly unlikely to destroy any existing North Korean nuclear weapons capability,” wrote Phillip Saunders of the Center for Nonproliferation Studies, in a paper analysing its risks.

“The biggest problem with military options is preventing North Korean retaliation,” Saunders said. He believes half a million artillery shells an hour would be rained on Seoul in the first day of any conflict from North Korean artillery hidden in caves. The North Koreans could fire 200 mobile rocket launchers and launch up to 600 Scud missiles. American and South Korean casualties, excluding civilians, are projected at between 300,000 and 500,000 in the first 90 days of war.

Like former president Bill Clinton’s team, the Bush administration has therefore realised that a diplomatic answer is the only one available.

But years of inattention, division and mixed messages robbed the US of diplomatic influence. One observer tells of watching the US envoy Christopher Hill sit mutely in an important negotiation because policy arguments in Washington had tied his hands.

Yesterday Hill compromised by offering the North Koreans a private meeting if they came back to nuclear talks hosted by China. But American faith in China’s powers of persuasion may have been misplaced.

“China is the source of the problem, not the source of the solution,” argued Edward Timperlake, a defence official in the Reagan administration and author of Showdown, a new book on the prospect of war with China.

Kim ignored Chinese demands to call off the missile tests and some American officials now think Beijing is simply playing off its client against its superpower rival.

The clearest statement of all came from the “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea” (DPRK) itself. The state news agency said America had used “threats and blackmail” to destroy an agreement to end the dispute. “But for the DPRK’s tremendous deterrent for self-defence, the US would have attacked the DPRK more than once as it had listed it as part of an ‘axis of evil’.”

The lesson of Iraq, the North Koreans said, was now known to everyone.

Additional reporting: Sarah Baxter, Washington; Julian Ryall, Tokyo

Thoughts of Kim

I know I’m an object of criticism in the world, but if I am being talked about, I must be doing the right thing

The leader’s greatness is in reality the greatness of our nation

We oppose the reactionary policies of the US government but we do not oppose the American people. We want to have many good friends in the United States


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 10, 2006)

If Kim is not careful this so called Scorched Earth that he would cause, will end up being Scorched N. Korea.

I saw an interesting documentary on N. Korea the other day. A German reporter was allowed to go into N. Korea and report and conduct interviews with the people. What he showed is truely crazy. It reminded me of the years leading up to WW2 in Germany. The people are truely brainwashed by there government and look at Kim as a god. They will follow him wherever he takes them.

The only solution I see to this problem is this:

1. Kim dies and the people finally see the light.

2. Kim drags them into a costly war and many people die because of his stupidity.

My only questions if this leads to war are this:

1. Can N. Korea sustain a long drawn out war? In that I mean, do they have the oil stockpiles and the supplies to actually sustain there military with all the sanctions on them.

2. Can there military hold up at all? True they have a large military but it is mostly outdated Russian stuff. The main part that I see that they can really put a hurt on us would be in the air defense. They have a brutal air defense and there border with S. Korea is the most defended border in the world. Friends of mine that were stationed in S. Korea said that evertime they would take off on missions up near the DMZ they would be painted by N. Korean SAMs.


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## Erich (Jul 10, 2006)

we've been on uneasy ground with N. Korea and the Chinese since the 1950's so don't get yourself hi-balled all in knots.

Seems like a revolution is needed if the Korean populace is brave enough. Right now the military has such a strong hold that any inkling of going against the grain is going to get a quick shut down. Hey where are those Japanese Samurai when you need them ?


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## syscom3 (Jul 10, 2006)

In one of those "be carefull for what you wish for" scenarios.....

I bet some leaders in the PRC are owndering why they are allowing N Korea thumb its nose at the US and the only result is a rearming Japan and a probable expansion of the US ABM technology that would make their missles vulnerable.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 11, 2006)

It is definatly going to be intersting to see how this pans out. I am trying to get in touch with some friends that are stationed in S. Korea at the DMZ and see how it is up there right now. I am sure you can cut the tension with a knife. Not sure if I will be able to get in touch with them though, have not talked to them in years.


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 18, 2006)

102first_hussars said:


> Apparentlly Kim Jong Ill was seriously offended by the display of the North Koreans as bad guys in the 007 Die Another Day, im just wondering why he hasnt said anything about Team America.



I know. He was like the main star!


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 18, 2006)

Oh yeah, sorry, a little slow. Well, If Kim Jong starts launching more, thats when we need to send in a few B-2 Stealth bombers and target their launching sites.


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## evangilder (Jul 18, 2006)

Nope, there is no point risking ANY American lives for that pissant leader of a third world toilet. Tomahawk missiles will do the job just fine, and no American lives are at risk. If they managed to get just one American crewmember (anyone can get a lucky shot), the propaganda value of that would be huge. Don't give that sawed off little prick the satisfaction.


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## plan_D (Jul 19, 2006)

There would still be a reaction from North Korea which would cost American and South Korean lives. I believe the 300,000 - 500,000 in 90 days is a little high, but it's better expect the worst. 

A few cruise missiles on the missile tests sites, and SAM stations. Then said in the planes to mop up all AA defences, radar and artillery sites. Then pile in with the tanks !


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 20, 2006)

evangilder said:


> Nope, there is no point risking ANY American lives for that pissant leader of a third world toilet. Tomahawk missiles will do the job just fine, and no American lives are at risk. If they managed to get just one American crewmember (anyone can get a lucky shot), the propaganda value of that would be huge. Don't give that sawed off little prick the satisfaction.



Agreed


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## Aggie08 (Jul 20, 2006)

Just Tomahawk his house and let light in, he's a cockroach remember? then he'll scurry away and ne'er be seen again...


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 23, 2006)

plan_D said:


> There would still be a reaction from North Korea which would cost American and South Korean lives. I believe the 300,000 - 500,000 in 90 days is a little high, but it's better expect the worst.
> 
> A few cruise missiles on the missile tests sites, and SAM stations. Then said in the planes to mop up all AA defences, radar and artillery sites. Then pile in with the tanks !


Agreed!


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## Screaming Eagle (Dec 25, 2006)

102first_hussars said:


> Lately he just made a big *** threat to the states, saying any aggression against NK they will nuke the states



Like that would happen


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## Matt308 (Dec 26, 2006)

I don't know here guys. I would suggest we ignore him. Likelihood he could only lash out at SK. If so, China might intervene. Perhaps okay. But a strategic risk if they mop up. Remember, we (US) aren't the only superpower on that block. Do we want China expanding her horizons?


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