# End Of The World: Caused By An Experiment?



## ToughOmbre (Sep 7, 2008)

Fear Looms Over Scientist's Experiment to Uncover Secrets of "Big Bang" 

Sunday, September 07, 2008

*This sounds crazy to me.....*

A British physicist has claimed he can explain the secrets of the Big Bang Theory, but his controversial experiment has scientists believing he could bring about the end of the world, the U.K.'s Daily Mail reported.

For centuries, scientists have sought unsuccessfully to unlock the secrets of the Big Bang Theory — a model explaining the birth of the universe. But 63-year-old Dr. Lyn Evans of Aberdare, England, popularly known as "Evans the Atom," claims to know the answers, and will test his experiment on Wednesday by using a 17-mile-long doughnut-shaped tunnel that will smash sub-atomic particles together at the speed of light, the Mail reported.

Evans' ambitions, however, have brought widespread concern among scientists who say the experiment could create a shower of unstable black holes inside the Earth, and subsequently bring destruction to the planet.

"Nothing will happen for at least four years," retired German Otto Rossler told the Mail. "Then someone will spot a light ray coming out of the Indian Ocean during the night and no one will be able to explain it."

TO


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## evangilder (Sep 7, 2008)

Here is the problem, until science proves otherwise, suspicion and fear seem to go crazy. The earth was flat at one time. If an airplane went beyond the speed of sound, it would disintegrate. Tomatoes were thought to be poisonous. All of these have proven false. Are other scientists actually really concerned, or jealous of this scientists findings and research? 

I thought they had already smashed particles together at light speed at the Fermi lab anyway. 

Hmm...where is my tin-foil hat?


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## mkloby (Sep 7, 2008)

evangilder said:


> Here is the problem, until science proves otherwise, suspicion and fear seem to go crazy. The earth was flat at one time. If an airplane went beyond the speed of sound, it would disintegrate. Tomatoes were thought to be poisonous. All of these have proven false. Are other scientists actually really concerned, or jealous of this scientists findings and research?
> 
> I thought they had already smashed particles together at light speed at the Fermi lab anyway.
> 
> Hmm...where is my tin-foil hat?



What the heck will smashing sub-atomic particles together prove??? Am I the only one that is bored as nuts with scientists trying to "prove" where the earth/universe/life came from???


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## syscom3 (Sep 7, 2008)

mkloby said:


> What the heck will smashing sub-atomic particles together prove??? Am I the only one that is bored as nuts with scientists trying to "prove" where the earth/universe/life came from???



Yes you are.

I like hi energy physics and the often interesting things that are learned about it.


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## pbfoot (Sep 7, 2008)

Its a fairly important piece of technology qoute from 2 pubs

"The aim of the 4.4 billion-pound (over $7.7 billion) experiment is to recreate the conditions that existed a fraction of a second after the Big Bang - the birth of the universe - and provide vital clues to the building blocks of life. 

It will track the spray of particles thrown out by collisions in a search for the elusive Higgs Boson, a theoretical entity that supposedly lends weight, or mass, to the elementary particles. So important is this mysterious substance that it has been called the "God Particle"."


"Prof. Etzion, an experimental physicist in high-energy research, expects the impact of the LHC to be greater than that of the first moon landing. “It is hard to grasp the dimensions of the practical benefits from this project,” he says, “but we’re expecting to explore the basic forces that hold the world together.""


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## Marcel (Sep 7, 2008)

evangilder said:


> I thought they had already smashed particles together at light speed at the Fermi lab anyway.


They do that everywhere on the globe. We've one of those machines here in the NL as well.


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## mkloby (Sep 7, 2008)

pbfoot said:


> "The aim of the 4.4 billion-pound (over $7.7 billion) experiment is to recreate the conditions that existed a fraction of a second after the Big Bang - the birth of the universe - and provide vital clues to the building blocks of life.





Now that is funny!


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## Gnomey (Sep 7, 2008)

It has been done before just never on this scale. For me I find it really interesting and look forward to their results and if we die because the create a black hole it isn't a bad way to go - you probably would realise what was going on...


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## Negative Creep (Sep 7, 2008)

Ah well, at least I have 4 years to live it up


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## pbfoot (Sep 7, 2008)

mkloby said:


> Now that is funny!


sounds like the same arguments used for flight, speed of sound, and atomic testing


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## Clave (Sep 7, 2008)

Those damn Swiss! always blowing stuff up!


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## syscom3 (Sep 7, 2008)

pbfoot said:


> sounds like the same arguments used for flight, speed of sound, and atomic testing



Yup.


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## Freebird (Sep 7, 2008)

mkloby said:


> What the heck will smashing sub-atomic particles together prove???



Not like anyone could use physics to build/design a weapon...  



syscom3 said:


> I like hi energy physics and the often interesting things that are learned about it.



I remember when finding the "Top Quark" was a big deal.... 

{Quark - anyone else remember that TV space show from the late 70's?


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## Flyboy2 (Sep 7, 2008)

Hmmm... always wondered what it would be like to die via black hole.


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## pbfoot (Sep 7, 2008)

Then a small physics quiz
Is there anything faster then the speed of light
And is light affected by gravity


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## pbfoot (Sep 7, 2008)

freebird said:


> Not like anyone could use physics to build/design a weapon...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I listen to Quarks and Quirks every Saturday at noon 
here is the show from this past Sat with the collider story
CBC Radio | Quirks Quarks | Quirks and Quarks Podcast


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## Catch22 (Sep 7, 2008)

I don't know if anything is fater than it, but I think light can bent by gravity. Isn't a black hole just a big gravity well? It sucks everything into it.


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## Freebird (Sep 7, 2008)

pbfoot said:


> Then a small physics quiz
> 
> And is light affected by gravity Yes
> Is there anything faster then the speed of light Maybe



Some have postulated the existence of the "tachyon" a faster-than-light particle

Tachyon -- from Eric Weisstein's World of Physics


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## mkloby (Sep 7, 2008)

freebird said:


> Not like anyone could use physics to build/design a weapon...



Nice - Thanks for that, since every weapon ever invented has a foundation in physics. I wasn't commenting on other possible uses of this study.

PB - those other cases you mentioned had practical short term applications. What is the practical application of studying what supposedly happened a fraction of a second after the big bang?


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## syscom3 (Sep 7, 2008)

MK .... you're to smart a person to be asking such a sophomoric question like that.


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## Parmigiano (Sep 8, 2008)

Don't worry guys...

I'm only 120 km from Geneva, if things goes wrong and I'll see the Alps collapse at morning when I drive to work I'll shot a post here so that those who will have some more time to live may find the best way to use it...


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## timshatz (Sep 8, 2008)

Catch22 said:


> I don't know if anything is fater than it, but I think light can bent by gravity. Isn't a black hole just a big gravity well? It sucks everything into it.



If I recall correctly, that's what Albert E got the Nobel in Physics for. Photoecentricity. Or, the affect of gravity on Photons. 

I dunno, I understand it and I guess you have to give something to the pointy heads to play with (like a big friggin' donut shaped ring in the middle of Switzerland, I like football, they like smashing particles together-keeps both of us out of trouble).

But if it's going to end the planet, can't these pointy heads go do it out on Mars or something. Granted, the cost is astronomical and currently it's technically infeasable, but it'll keep them busy for the next 20-30 years setting it up and these guys get off on that stuff.


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## Freebird (Sep 8, 2008)

mkloby said:


> Nice - Thanks for that, since every weapon ever invented has a foundation in physics. I wasn't commenting on other possible uses of this study.



  Just being cheeky...   



> What the heck will smashing sub-atomic particles together prove??? Am I the only one that is bored as nuts with scientists trying to "prove" where the earth/universe/life came from???



I think that many people had the same idea about the Manhatten project, just a bunch of eggheads wasting time...


I wonder what science the "next generation" of weapons will be using?

If the scientists find a way to disrupt/alter the strong or weak nuclear force, could lead to some interesting possibilities


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## Freebird (Sep 8, 2008)

Parmigiano said:


> Don't worry guys...
> 
> I'm only 120 km from Geneva, if things goes wrong and I'll see the Alps collapse at morning when I drive to work *I'll shoot a post here so that those who will have some more time to live may find the best way to use it...*




Hmm, wonder what could be done? Beam me up Scotty?


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## Captain Dunsel (Sep 8, 2008)

Would be nice if it showed how to use zero point (vacuum) energy. Would be a lot cheaper than oil.

CD


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## mkloby (Sep 8, 2008)

syscom3 said:


> MK .... you're to smart a person to be asking such a sophomoric question like that.



Obviously not. You want to pursue such technology to develop a possible weapon or energy production, fine - I get it. But, what benefit will help humanity to know what happened in a fraction of a second after the big bang?

The way I look at it - there are people dying of uncurable diseases and other important issues that deserve limited attention, research, and resources. What will knowing this fraction of a second do for us?


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## RabidAlien (Sep 8, 2008)

> If the scientists find a way to disrupt/alter the strong or weak nuclear force, could lead to some interesting possibilities




I'm still holding out for my flying car. Its the future now, where's my flying car?


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## pbfoot (Sep 8, 2008)

mkloby said:


> Obviously not. You want to pursue such technology to develop a possible weapon or energy production, fine - I get it. But, what benefit will help humanity to know what happened in a fraction of a second after the big bang?
> 
> The way I look at it - there are people dying of uncurable diseases and other important issues that deserve limited attention, research, and resources. What will knowing this fraction of a second do for us?


Jeez don't ask me I was brutal in physics in school , but there are articles out there that will make more sense then by babbling


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## Flyboy2 (Sep 8, 2008)

Nothing is faster than the speed of light because light will always move fast enough that it will catch any object moving at a given velocity. Einstien's theory of relativity.

Light isn't affected by gravity because it can act as a wave and a particle and when it interacts with gravity acts as a wave


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## pbfoot (Sep 8, 2008)

Flyboy2 said:


> Nothing is faster than the speed of light because light will always move fast enough that it will catch any object moving at a given velocity. Einstien's theory of relativity.
> 
> Light isn't affected by gravity because it can act as a wave and a particle and when it interacts with gravity acts as a wave


How Gravity Affects Photons for gravity and light and there are things that are faster then light


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## Flyboy2 (Sep 8, 2008)

Dang thought i nailed it
Thanks for the information PB


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## Marcel (Sep 9, 2008)

pbfoot said:


> and there are things that are faster then light



Which things are faster? As far as I know none have ever been found. Tachyons are pure hypothetical.


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## JugBR (Sep 9, 2008)

pbfoot said:


> Then a small physics quiz
> Is there anything faster then the speed of light
> And is light affected by gravity



nothing is faster than speed of light, but the speed of light by itself isnt a constant, since it could be affected by gravity.

light travels faster in one situations and slower in others. but any other thing in the same situation would travel slower than light.

btw: time and space are not linear constants, example:

when you are doing a thing and you enjoy it, time pass faster than when you are bored with some unpleasant thing.


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## pbfoot (Sep 9, 2008)

Marcel said:


> Which things are faster? As far as I know none have ever been found. Tachyons are pure hypothetical.


I'm trying to get the exact source I heard about this it is possible it was a laser beam in a medium I can't remember . Remember I flunked physics some 40 years ago


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## timshatz (Sep 9, 2008)

Flyboy2 said:


> Nothing is faster than the speed of light because light will always move fast enough that it will catch any object moving at a given velocity. Einstien's theory of relativity.
> 
> Light isn't affected by gravity because it can act as a wave and a particle and when it interacts with gravity acts as a wave



Ok, now that somebody's thrown that out there, I want to toss out a question that's been bugging me for a while. Actually, it's two questions.

1. If a photon is moving at the speed of light throught the universe starts to decay (which it must), the particles leave at the speed of light. So a particle leaving a photo in any direction towards the direction of travel must be moving at the speed of light. 

2. Two photons (or any other like particle, I just use photons for simplicty) are created in a start at the same exact instant going opposite directions. If two photons leave the star (for our purposes, the star is kinda small, size of Jupiter) in opposite directions, are they both not traveling in excess of the speed of light with relation to each other. The question can be asked with two companion stars and crossing particles as well. 

Anybody have any ideas on this one cause when I ask the pointy heads in the physics world, they don't seem to have a good line on it. And it seems a relatively simple question (probably covered by General Relativity).


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## syscom3 (Sep 9, 2008)

I can just imagine some people saying after Maxwell developed his laws of electomagnetism amd Tesla broke ground with AC generators ....... "now just what in the heck is this good for"?


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## mkloby (Sep 9, 2008)

Is anyone going to comment on what good knowing the fraction of a second after the big bang is supposed to bring to humanity? It's a serious question, and nobody has responded.


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## ScOoTeR1992 (Sep 9, 2008)

hay has this thing happened already. I don't know what time it was going to start, over here time wise anyway


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## pbfoot (Sep 9, 2008)

mkloby said:


> Is anyone going to comment on what good knowing the fraction of a second after the big bang is supposed to bring to humanity? It's a serious question, and nobody has responded.


 
Those guys in Switzerland keep sending my resume back unopened 
I really don't know what the benifits could be but thats why I'm not making the big bucks in Switzerland . 
Maybe stuff beyond my comprehesion , time travel , alternate power sources , medicine, weapons


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## ScOoTeR1992 (Sep 9, 2008)

> Particle physicists believe they will throw open a new frontier of knowledge on Wednesday when, 100 metres below ground, they switch on a mega-machine crafted to unveil the deepest mysteries of matter.
> 
> The most complex scientific experiment ever undertaken, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) will accelerate sub-atomic particles to nearly the speed of light and then smash them together, with the aim of filling gaps in our understanding of the cosmos.
> 
> ...



here we go this is off another science website


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## Flyboy2 (Sep 9, 2008)

timshatz said:


> .
> 2. Two photons (or any other like particle, I just use photons for simplicty) are created in a start at the same exact instant going opposite directions. If two photons leave the star (for our purposes, the star is kinda small, size of Jupiter) in opposite directions, are they both not traveling in excess of the speed of light with relation to each other. The question can be asked with two companion stars and crossing particles as well.



Ok its my understanding that they are both traveling at the same speed i.e. the speed of light. Now if one increases its velocity (because we're talking about displacement here. Its a straight line right?) I believe the other does as well meaning both are traveling in excess of the speed of light.


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## Flyboy2 (Sep 9, 2008)

A little question on the gravity thing:
If a photon can also act as a wave, how does gravity affect it when it is acting as a wave


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## JugBR (Sep 9, 2008)

mkloby said:


> Is anyone going to comment on what good knowing the fraction of a second after the big bang is supposed to bring to humanity? It's a serious question, and nobody has responded.



knowloge about how to destroy universe !


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## Marcel (Sep 10, 2008)

mkloby said:


> Is anyone going to comment on what good knowing the fraction of a second after the big bang is supposed to bring to humanity? It's a serious question, and nobody has responded.



The fact itself, probably nothing. It's just to cure human's natural curiosity. The main thing about these researches is that there's often spin offs, data that we didn't know before, which brings you to new ideas. They call this fundamental science, no direct practical application, but they'll usually become clear with the data. I this case, I suppose they'll learn a lot about energy, as at the big bang, a lot of energy was converted to mass.


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## Gnomey (Sep 10, 2008)

Yep, I would say it can be summed up with they just want to know because they (theoretically) can.

Well it actually works the sent the beam of light all the way around earlier this morning so I guess it isn't long until we are all dead then


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## Parmigiano (Sep 10, 2008)

West Europe, 1 PM - Update

No light beams spotted at 9.30, Alps are still in place.

Warning - Traffic in Milano worse than usual, and this is a well known near impossibility. 
Investigation is ongoing to determine if this is the black hole first ignition, perhaps the beginning of the ultra-density mass generated by abnormal concentration of vehicles.
Local population attempting to neutralize the phenomenon by repeated use of swearwords.


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## ScOoTeR1992 (Sep 10, 2008)

is it possible for you to take any pictures yet? and give us any advanced warnings


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## JugBR (Sep 10, 2008)

Marcel said:


> The fact itself, probably nothing. It's just to cure human's natural curiosity. The main thing about these researches is that there's often spin offs, data that we didn't know before, which brings you to new ideas. They call this fundamental science, no direct practical application, but they'll usually become clear with the data. I this case, I suppose they'll learn a lot about energy, as at the big bang, a lot of energy was converted to mass.



the want to find a particle named bosson higgs, also called "particle of god" !

we are messing with the allmighty !  

acording scientists, the first colision will happend in next 60 days, start praiyng !

more about the experiment(live webcast):

Live webcast


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## timshatz (Sep 10, 2008)

Parmigiano said:


> West Europe, 1 PM - Update
> 
> No light beams spotted at 9.30, Alps are still in place.
> 
> ...



Gotta love it! Good one, good chuckle.


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## timshatz (Sep 10, 2008)

Flyboy2 said:


> A little question on the gravity thing:
> If a photon can also act as a wave, how does gravity affect it when it is acting as a wave



Same way. It has mass, that's all the really matters. If it has mass, it is affected by gravity. 

My question about the two protons could be looked at as the two of them passing each other (strangers in the night...sorry, it popped into my head). Combine the relative speeds and aren't both of them moving in excess of the speed of light in relation to each other?


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## timshatz (Sep 10, 2008)

mkloby said:


> Is anyone going to comment on what good knowing the fraction of a second after the big bang is supposed to bring to humanity? It's a serious question, and nobody has responded.



Actually, there are huge ramifications for humanity. Finding the God Particle will also give clues to:

-Missing socks, why are there is always one missing? They are in the black hole created by the God Particle. 
-Extra keys on the key chain, what are they there for? God Particle put them there.
-Telemarketers- Not really people on the other end of the line, but random interactions with the phone system by the God Particle.
-Beer Goggles- Interactions with the God Particle and your retina. Fat chicks are still fat. 
-Traffic Jams (especially the ones in Milan)- God Particle sucking up space on the road system. 
-Crazy Glue- What makes it stick? God Particle. 

The ramifications of finding the God Particle are endless.


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## runningdog (Sep 10, 2008)

Well, we're all still here. For a bit longer anyway.............


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## fly boy (Sep 10, 2008)

Clave said:


> Those damn Swiss! always blowing stuff up!



the swiss aren't a bad thing or people be glad they are our allies because they have wepons to destory the abrams tank


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## syscom3 (Sep 10, 2008)

timshatz said:


> Actually, there are huge ramifications for humanity. Finding the God Particle will also give clues to:
> 
> -Missing socks, why are there is always one missing? They are in the black hole created by the God Particle.
> -Extra keys on the key chain, what are they there for? God Particle put them there.
> ...



Sounds like that was taken from the notebook of Lazarus Long.


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## JugBR (Sep 10, 2008)

runningdog said:


> Well, we're all still here. For a bit longer anyway.............



they say now the first colision will just happends in 2009. 

its a 27km tunnel, now they want to check is all systems are ok ! will take a while...

very impressive enginering, they want to make 2 protons colide at 99.99% of speed of light, it will generate a lot of elementar particles and they believe it will generates the boson of higgs wich is a particle that was present at big bang.

also they want discover why universe is matter and not anti-matter.

btw, we entered in a new era for mankind. lets do like google and celebrate.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 10, 2008)

....Just Wondering who actually believes this?!


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## mkloby (Sep 10, 2008)

timshatz said:


> Actually, there are huge ramifications for humanity. Finding the God Particle will also give clues to:
> 
> -Missing socks, why are there is always one missing? They are in the black hole created by the God Particle.
> -Extra keys on the key chain, what are they there for? God Particle put them there.
> ...



Well, this is the only response I've gotten so far - so I'm going with it.


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## Flyboy2 (Sep 10, 2008)

timshatz said:


> My question about the two protons could be looked at as the two of them passing each other (strangers in the night...sorry, it popped into my head). Combine the relative speeds and aren't both of them moving in excess of the speed of light in relation to each other?



Hmm... hadn't thought of that. If you count them moving away from each other from a base point. But are we talking about there absolute velocity or there total displacement?


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## timshatz (Sep 11, 2008)

Flyboy2 said:


> Hmm... hadn't thought of that. If you count them moving away from each other from a base point. But are we talking about there absolute velocity or there total displacement?



I guess I would have to consider their total displacement (relative speeds to each other?). That would be in excess of the speed of light. Further, decaying particles from either one would, if going in the right direction, be going even faster. 

What's the difference between absolute velocity and total displacement? How would it affect the idea of the two particles? Just trying to get my head around this.


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## Njaco (Sep 11, 2008)

Aren't we all God particles?


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## Flyboy2 (Sep 11, 2008)

Well I'm pretty sure absolute velocity is how fast they are going without relation to each other. Like one car is going 65 mph and one 87 mph. Total displacement is the speed measured by how far apart they are. I'm not sure if this is a different measurement but from the way my physics teacher talked about it I think they are different


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## JugBR (Sep 11, 2008)

Njaco said:


> Aren't we all God particles?



i gonna make a banner with this phrase and put in front of my house !!!


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## timshatz (Sep 12, 2008)

Flyboy2 said:


> Well I'm pretty sure absolute velocity is how fast they are going without relation to each other. Like one car is going 65 mph and one 87 mph. Total displacement is the speed measured by how far apart they are. I'm not sure if this is a different measurement but from the way my physics teacher talked about it I think they are different



Ok, so I guess the absolute speed would be in excess of warp 1, beating the speed of light. So it's plausable. 

Another question that always bothered me is this. If space is expanding, what is it expanding into?


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## JugBR (Sep 12, 2008)

timshatz said:


> Ok, so I guess the absolute speed would be in excess of warp 1, beating the speed of light. So it's plausable.
> 
> Another question that always bothered me is this. If space is expanding, what is it expanding into?



not space, universe. universe is expanding into space.

but another great explanation could be found in the final scene of MIB.


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## timshatz (Sep 12, 2008)

JugBR said:


> not space, universe. universe is expanding into space.
> 
> but another great explanation could be found in the final scene of MIB.



Right. Got that part. But the mere fact that there was a big bang means it had to have an initial point on existance. So, the universe expands from that point, both in the space and out of the space. Like a balloon, it expands inside the balloon but it also expands outside the balloon. 

Where is the outside of the balloon expanding into, or what?

I am starting to think it is expanding into the previous universe which is run by a totally different set of physical laws and the mere existance of our universe renders the previous universe extinct. In other words, the instant you see it, it no longer exists because it is on another plane, in a different existance and both universes can not exist at the same time.


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## Soren (Sep 12, 2008)

I find it funny that some scientists around the world, including the retired German scientist mentioned, fears black holes emerging, he also seems to be the only German to believe this as Germany is probably the country most heavily involved in the project having 26 teams of scientists working over there: Many of them involved in the construction of the LHC.

Infact at this very moment an even more powerful accelerator is under way in Germany, designated FAIR (Facility for Antiproton and Ion Research), this is to reveal a lot more details regarding the Big Bang.

_"With CERN, it's like getting a look at a new country at high speed from the highway," _spokesman Ingo Peter said. _"With FAIR, it will be like 1,000 four-wheel-drives swarming over it off-road."_

_"We have different scientific purposes. CERN scientists can tell you how the far side looks. We'll be able to tell you about the fine detail of this new country: matter."_

And from CERN:
CERN Press Release – Final LHC Synchronisation Test a Success

There's nothing to fear guys.


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## Flyboy2 (Sep 12, 2008)

I really don't know about the space expanding thing. The only real thing I can think of is that around our universe is dark matter that is being compact. Now I haven't put much thought into this because I don't really believe in the Big Bang so I don't know. Good question though


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## B-17engineer (Sep 12, 2008)

Yay!!! well my dad said don't believe this C*** when he saw it on TV


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## JugBR (Sep 12, 2008)

soren, one day they will build an accelerator that rounds the equator line.

i like that, the mankind shall advance !


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