# Jeep or Kubelwagen, Kubelwagen or Jeep?



## schwarzpanzer (Sep 13, 2005)

I tried to put this on POLLS Mr NS, but couldn't so feel free to delete, er move this if you wish.  

Which would you have?

BTW The Hotchkiss Jeeps were the best.


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 13, 2005)

I'm trying to abstain from thread deletion for a while. 
Nah, it's fine right here.


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## Gnomey (Sep 13, 2005)

I would say the jeep over the kubelwagen as the jeep had better offroad capability than the kubelwagen, as well as being good on the road.


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## trackend (Sep 13, 2005)

Jeep by a mile but the 15cwt over the jeep


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 13, 2005)

Id go with the Jeep. Mostly because I love the name Jeep and am a Jeep driver.


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## evangilder (Sep 13, 2005)

Little known fact:
The term Jeep is actually a slurring of the acronym "GP". These vehicles were called "General Purpose" or GP. That got slurred into "Jeep" and the moniker stuck.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 13, 2005)

That I did not know. Jeep "There is Only ONe"


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## trackend (Sep 13, 2005)

I think you right Adler the Kubel just was not as robust as the Willys
Isnt there a connection with a cartoon character around the time Eric that was called the Jeep and that was why the spelling was used to discribe the GP


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 13, 2005)

Yeap I agree.


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## plan_D (Sep 13, 2005)

I knew about that about the name. Jeep coming from GP. I read it recently.


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## evangilder (Sep 13, 2005)

I actually saw a documentary on the Jeep in WWII a number of years ago and leared about that. I thought it was a cool piece of trivia.


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## trackend (Sep 13, 2005)

I spoke to a guy at Duxford on sunday and he was the owner of a 1942 Willys Jeep with all the Kit including this very rare Winchester made M20 carbine


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 13, 2005)

Very nice! It certainly looks well maintained.


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## trackend (Sep 13, 2005)

He has just come back from the states and had an hours flight in a B24
up in the bombardiers position and a quick trip in a B17 he was still grinning at the thought of it


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 14, 2005)

Yes very nice!


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## schwarzpanzer (Sep 14, 2005)

I know some guys who work for Chrysler and they said the GP is wrong, that the original order was for a vehicle with *J*ust *E*nough *E*ssential *P*arts.

I think that an existing Willys was just adapted.

There was one there in a bay, he'd restored it along with a Duck-type thing.

My grandad fitted a half-track engine to a Jeep at Hereford (IIRC?) and had it on 2 wheels!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 14, 2005)

As a Jeep man I would love to own an original Willys Jeep.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 14, 2005)

I know some guys who own a Willys...its terrific...


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## evangilder (Sep 14, 2005)

That Chrysler story about just enough essential parts sounds like an acronym that was made later. Chrysler did not build Jeeps during that time. The first jeeps were made by Willys-Overland, Ford and American Bantam. 

Chrysler bought American Motors in 1987, who had bought out Kaiser in 1970. Kaiser bought Willys in 1953 and it became Kaiser-Jeep in 1963. The origin of the Jeep name and the trademark came from the original Willys company.

As an aside, teh Ford Motor Company produced GP vehicles and their documents state that G stood for Government Use. The P signified the wheelbase of the vehicle, in this case, 80 inches.

I have seen no documents that show the acronym JEEP.


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## wmaxt (Sep 14, 2005)

I Owned a 1948 Willy's mine was a CJ2A It didn't have the shovels and it did have a tail gate it was a blast and I wish I could get it back.

The Kubelwagon was actually no slouch and could go pretty much anywhere you had the guts to go. long climbs and mud was the Jeeps forte and best feature.

I vote Jeep to.

wmaxt


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 16, 2005)

evangilder said:


> Chrysler bought American Motors in 1987, who had bought out Kaiser in 1970. Kaiser bought Willys in 1953 and it became Kaiser-Jeep in 1963. The origin of the Jeep name and the trademark came from the original Willys company.



Yeap!


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 24, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> As a Jeep man I would love to own an original Willys Jeep.



My uncle owns a Willys Jeep. Its Awesome! Said that you can get airborne with it if you hit the right hill and have at a speed of 20 mph! 8) 

I want my first car to be a Jeep with a Olive green color! Either that or regular green. 8)


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## Yeoman1000 (Sep 25, 2005)

often outside ilkestion tesco's theres a old landrover with a jigsaw pattern in army colours 8)


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## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2005)

> I want my first car to be a Jeep with a Olive green color! Either that or regular green.


Gimme a freakin break u poser.... The state of Alabama doesnt give retards drivers licenses... Ur gonna have to take the short bus...


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 25, 2005)

Actually Les, my dad's letting me drive the G6 around the neighborhood. Wants me to get a head start in my driving skills.

Oh and i thought that New Yorkers like your self ride cramped, stinky buses.


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## schwarzpanzer (Sep 25, 2005)

Easy boys!  

In the UK there are GRP Jeep replicas called 'Jago's'.

One of those might do you P38?

It was a Fordson fire-tender V8 that was fitted in that Jeep. 8)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 25, 2005)

Yeah but Southerneres only ride around on there tractors or pick ups with smelly 3 day old clothes with BBQ stains on there wife beaters. See it can go both ways.


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 25, 2005)

Tractors??? I didnt know we still have tractors!!

Im just kidding we still have tractors but we dont drive them around like rednecks. Les just thinks that because most Northerners like him are prejudice or ignorant of Southerners who work hard and are proud of themsleves.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 25, 2005)

And Southerners are jealous of northerners because they have an education right and know there history and how to spell and actually watch the news and know what is really going on in the world right?


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## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2005)

Lol....

Actually Im from Long Island, not New York City, and never used the public transportation system with any great regularity....

But we still hate redneck, inbred southerners like urself....


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 25, 2005)

And I still hate f*cking yankees who judge southerners and think they have a better education, like you Les.

Now i get along with a guy from New Jersey who's dad was a sniper in the National Guard. He doesent judge Southerners like the bull shit they cram into your heads up north about the sterotype that you assholes stilll believe in. 

In fact, he likes the South better than the North where he moved from!


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## schwarzpanzer (Sep 25, 2005)

It's funny, the opposite is true of the UK.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2005)

> And I still hate f*cking yankees who judge southerners and think they have a better education, like you Les.


I dont judge, I live among u, and have been to Birmingham and Montgomery many many times, including ur Hillbilly town of Auburn.... Rednecks abound.... The average Southerner is a meatball, who speaks like he's on Oxycontins, with a load of chew in his mouth.... 

As for the education thing, its true, we do have a better education system than u rednecks down here... U are proof positive... Ur grammer and spelling are that of a 3rd grade Yankee kid.... My son has gone thru the education system here in Mississippi, and it was a joke.... Atleast 2 years difference in the curriculum for 12th grade...

U know why????

Because genetically.... Ahhh, nevermind, u wouldnt understand me if I explained....

To summize.... NO INBREEDING!!!!



> Now i get along with a guy from New Jersey *who's* dad was a sniper in the National Guard. He doesent judge Southerners like the bull s**t they cram into your heads up north about the sterotype that you assholes stilll believe in.





> *who's* dad


Its spelled *whose*, not who's.... Proof positive that ur intellectually slower than the Northerners... Either that, or ur erolloed in those "Special" classes for "special" kids.... 
And it aint a sterotype retard, its a fact... Ur IQ levels here in the South are, on average, about 15-20 points lower than the average Northerner...

And incase u havent noticed, u are throwing stereotypes around urself kid... Yankee this, Northerner that....


> In fact, he likes the South better than the North where he moved from!


Well, he probably takes the short bus with u to school, so no great loss to the Northern cause...
Oh and BTW, incase it's slipped ur mind, WE WON THE FREAKIN WAR REDNECK........


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## schwarzpanzer (Sep 25, 2005)

> WE WON THE FREAKIN WAR REDNECK



How did I know that was coming??  



> and have been to Birmingham



Whoah! That's quite a trek!


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 25, 2005)

> including ur Hillbilly town of Auburn....



Why didnt you come to my house where i could have kicked you [edited by administrator]


> WE WON THE FREAKIN WAR REDNECK........


The reason we lost the war is because we were tired of fighting and we were running short of suplies you [edited by administrator]!

Les, you could be a good person to talk to but your[edited by administrator]! Anytime i type something on here you always have to say something negative or call me a redneck. IM NOT A REDNECK! I never grew up in the country. 

Say anything you want about short buses because i ride the LONG bus to school with NORMAL people on it and nobody at my school talks like they have chewing tobacco in their mouth and accents will never change! 

So get use to being in the south, especially Misisisspi because i hope those so called "rednecks" give you hell!


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## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2005)

U should watch ur mouth little boy... At 13, ur Mommy might come into ur room and smack u arcoss ur filthy little mouth....

U are gonna kick ME in the nuts???? Hahahahahahaa.... In ur dreams redneck....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 26, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> > including ur Hillbilly town of Auburn....
> 
> 
> 
> Why didnt you come to my house where i could have kicked you in your f*cking nuts!!



Alright lets not make threats over the internet, especially ones that one can not back up. Just calm down P-38 and dont let him get to you. You do realize that is why he picks on you, because you make it easy for him.



P38 Pilot said:


> > WE WON THE FREAKIN WAR REDNECK........
> 
> 
> The reason we lost the war is because we were tired of fighting and we were running short of suplies you mother f*cker!
> ...



And this coming from a Patriot like youself. I thought you were proud to be an American but it sounds to me like you are upset because you lost the war to the North. Since the South left the Union is that not going against you patriot values?


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## kiwimac (Sep 26, 2005)

Actually I prefer the Schwimmwagen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwimmwagen

Kiwimac


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## trackend (Sep 26, 2005)

The Jeep was an excellent little run around and in its class teriffic it's biggest draw back was 6 volt electrics and it couldn,t carry very much as it was a reccie vehicle.


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## Erich (Sep 26, 2005)

Gents compose yourself. P-38 your coming off like your an old man of aged maturity..........NOT. Mellow out little dude.

Schwimmwagen is an excellent idea preferable in my opinion to both road types.

by the way boyz I am a mean little redneck..........literally. An I have a few red hairs left to prove it ~  well mostly silver now


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 26, 2005)

Ok ive come down. Your right Alder, im just allowing Les to get to me.


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## Erich (Sep 26, 2005)

I'd say chill out all of us and P-38 go have a Bier, but you are too young..............


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 26, 2005)

Have a root beer instead.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2005)

> Your right Alder, im just allowing Les to get to me.


And u shouldnt let me get to u... Im just an ignorant Damn Yankee with an slightly cruel attitude.... I told u awhile ago not to take me seriously -38.....


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 26, 2005)

Good idea! Well i just ate some ice cream...


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## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2005)

Was it redneck icecream??? Ya know, the possum flavored one???


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 27, 2005)

Sounds like what woman do when they are sad, angry or depressed....eat lots of icecream and chocolate!


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## P38 Pilot (Sep 27, 2005)

Nope it wasnt Redneck flavored... 

Although i did watch Blue Collar TV while eating!


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 27, 2005)

*Groan*


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 28, 2005)

Dont keel over NS.


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## Erich (Sep 28, 2005)

back on topic or slightly off......

Schwimmwagen bitte ! I'll take 2, one for work estimates


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 28, 2005)

Ive always like the Schwimmwagen but Im more a Jeep fan.


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## evangilder (Sep 28, 2005)

Kind of like a small DUKW.


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## Erich (Sep 28, 2005)

the kleine bugger is so trick being able to hit the lake and take a fast swimm. impressive. Actually I think it is a sleek little thing with the obvious VW techs attention to small details


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 28, 2005)

Everyonce in a while I see one driving around over here in Ansbach. There are a few of them in private ownership.


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## schwarzpanzer (Sep 28, 2005)

They're rare and expensive now aren't they though?

Having seen that, I've seen a few advertised for sale!!  

Do you see any of them Amphicars about Adler?

- They were built in Germany IIRC?

I thought of the Schwimmwagen when I posted this thread, it's by far the best, according to a US Army side-by-side trial.

Wouldn't they be expensive to build though?

BTW: I have magazine pics of prototype vehicles based on the Schwimmwagen and the SW prototypes, shall I post them?


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## Erich (Sep 28, 2005)

do it please and give credit sources......


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## Gnomey (Sep 28, 2005)

Go ahead schwarzpanzer lets see. The schwimmwagen is cool it, for me beats a Kubelwagen.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 29, 2005)

Next time I see one here in Ansbach I will try and get a pic of it. There a couple of them.


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## schwarzpanzer (Sep 29, 2005)

Still looking...  

I did find some Kommandeurwagen pics/info though.

It had a Kar98k in the B-pillar. 8) 

Which reminds me, the Kar98k was carried in a (or a few) tanks, anyone got more info on that?


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## P38 Pilot (Oct 2, 2005)

The schimwwagon does look like the American DUKW. But i still think the Jeep was better.


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## trackend (Oct 2, 2005)

At least the DUKW could carry something P38 although they always tended to overload them and ended up with no free board which made them prone to swamping in any sort of rough weather. 
Two troopers and their kit was the Schwimmers hopping pot.


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## P38 Pilot (Oct 2, 2005)

> Two troopers and their kit was the Schwimmers hopping pot.


Thats pathetic....


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## evangilder (Oct 2, 2005)

Jeeps and DUKWs had different roles, so I don't think they are a fair comparison. Jeeps did have fording kits with snorkels for intake and exhaust. The the snorkels were often higher than the drivers head. There's good engineering fo you.


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## trackend (Oct 2, 2005)

Depends on how long the passengers could hold their breath Eric ( Les could probably make the Rhine crossing one hell of a engine snorkel though  )


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 2, 2005)

And the Schwimmwagen had a different role than the DUKW, so that is not a fair comparison either even though I do think the DUKW was better.


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## P38 Pilot (Oct 3, 2005)

Yeah, the DUKW was a great vechicle to use in Amphibious roles. Hell, that was its ONLY role but it did a great job!


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## trackend (Oct 4, 2005)

Agreed Adler Eric it did have a different role to the DUKW so yes, it is unfair to compare them. The Kubel and Schwimmer's 2 wheeled drive put them at a huge disadvantage to the JEEP straight off. 
Millitary vehicles have to be 4 or more wheeled drive for practical reasons the Kubel is more of a fancied up Beetle the Jeep is vastly superiour for the job.


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Oct 4, 2005)

Jochen Marseille's Kubelwagen. 

Mm, wish in one hand, sh*t the other, see which comes first.

But yeah. It'd be nice.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 4, 2005)

I agree and that is why I like the Jeep the best.


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## schwarzpanzer (Oct 5, 2005)

That Buffalo thing was also a good amphibian.

*trackend:*



> The Kubel and Schwimmer's 2 wheeled drive put them at a huge disadvantage to the JEEP straight off.



The Kommandeurwagen, some Kubels and I think all Shwimmwagens were 4x4 (or should I say Carrera?  )



> the Kubel is more of a fancied up Beetle the Jeep is vastly superiour for the job.



Don't be so sure, all traction is over the driving wheels and the beach buggy is a good off-roader.
Also some were 4x4.


The Kubel was great for North Africa, being air-cooled and with a much lower fuel consumption.

Mind the Jeep could carry a much larger payload and much heavier armament: 1 MG34 (Kubel) vs (my fave) 1 MG34, 1 .50 and a Bazooka. 8) It could even carry a 37mm or tow a (small) AT gun.


BTW: I've found those Porsche archives  but they're A4-sized and 3-10 pages long, can I post them? and how many?

I can't find the USA back-to-back tests though.


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## trackend (Oct 6, 2005)

Agreed Schwar the beach buggy is a good off road vehicle. that is on a beach put it in deep mud ect Ill have 4x4 with limited slip diff anyday. I also agree that the Kubel was aircooled Ideal in the desert when you run out of water for drinking. 
With a Jeep or better still a 15cwt dump the gear from one all pile in the others and empty the cooling system.



schwarzpanzer said:


> That Buffalo thing was also a good amphibian.



The Buffalo Gator LVT's where good in the atolls of the Far East where reefs had to be negotiated and relitive calm waters but in the ETO they where far less successful lacking a screw and relying on the tracks for motion made them very slow and poor at maneuvering if they had to stem any sort of tide or current they almost stood still.
With several Buffs heading for the land the engine noise was deafening and announced there presence miles out to sea .
Any chance of surprise during darkness was totally lost as they roared there way ashore also the huge phosphorescent plume left astern made them prime targets for shore batteries.
Most naval landing craft avoided being near them where ever possible as they attracted far too much attention from the enemy.


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## trackend (Oct 9, 2005)

I had a suprise when I drove home from work today there was a big Bus rally on the Island and amongst them I found a pair of much loved Jeeps so thought Id bung them on here


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## evangilder (Oct 9, 2005)

Nice shots, Lee. They look like they have been taken care of.


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## trackend (Oct 9, 2005)

Cheers Eric The guy who owned 3 over 2 was really in love with it. 
A lot of the later models as im sure you know where 12V electrics or have been converted but his was still 6v although he said getting the batteries replated was becoming very costly.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 9, 2005)

Nice shots trackened. They were either taken care of, or restored very nicely. There are actually a lot of surplus parts for the Jeeps still found today.


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## trackend (Oct 9, 2005)

Im lead to believe there was about 250,000 built so to keep that lot going i would imaging Quite a few spares are floating about Adler. A guy at Duxford said he got his tyres from the far east as there is a company out there that has a set of the original moulds.


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## Gnomey (Oct 9, 2005)

Nice pics Lee.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 9, 2005)

Yes they also have Jeep conventions and companies that only deal in Jeep parts. Pretty cool actually.


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 9, 2005)

Hey, nice jeeps.


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