# Plan aims to raise WWII U-boat



## syscom3 (Feb 5, 2007)

Plan aims to raise WWII U-boat
Wednesday, 31 January 2007, 08:41 GMT

There is an ambitious plan to raise a U-boat from the seabed off County Donegal.

If it gets the go-ahead the aim is to house the boat in a museum where people can get a glimpse of one of the iconic vessels from WWII.

The British, Irish and German authorities could all be asked to help out with the educational project.

A number of U-boats lie 70 metres deep off the coast of Donegal in the Republic of Ireland.
Even in the murky depths the outline of the U-boat is quite clear, with divers saying the aerials and periscopes are still intact.

It is estimated there are about 150 of them lying off Malin Head - all vivid reminders of the Battle of the Atlantic during WWII.

One of the divers who has been examining the wrecks of Hitler's Wolf Pack, Geoff Millar, said he had been surprised they were in such good condition.

"When we first started diving them we expected to see an old rusty stain lying on the bottom, but it's amazing the condition they're in," he said.

"They're the ones that haven't been shelled or used for target practice.
"There's more ocean going liners lying off Malin Head than anywhere else in the world - 99% of them sunk by U-boats over the two wars.

"Also there's a ship out there called the Empire Heritage - it has just rows and rows of Sherman tanks on it - there's a lot of stuff there that should be lifted and raised and put forward for a museum."

The U-boats were used by the Germans to attack the Allies in the north Atlantic, and were an important part of Hitler's war strategy.

But that eventually floundered and about 60 of the vessels were surrendered at Lisahally docks in Londonderry in 1945. Many were later taken to sea and decommissioned.

Military historian Richard Doherty said the losses they cause had posed a real threat to the Allied war effort.

"The U-boats were the thing that frightened Winston Churchill most during the Second World War," he said.

"They were the greatest threat to the survival of Britain and therefore the building up of the alliance bases in Britain for the invasion of Europe.

"The U-boats were the weapon with which Germany could have won the war had Adolf Hitler been a sailor and had more appreciation of maritime strategy."

So far only two U-boats have been brought up from the seabed and preserved for public display in Europe - one in Birkenhead in England and another in Germany.

It would be a very expensive project, but those behind the project believe it would be worth it to preserve more of those remnants of the Battle of the Atlantic. 

http://news. bbc.co.uk/ 2/hi/uk_news/ northern_ ireland/6315153. stm


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## timshatz (Feb 6, 2007)

When you think about all the stuff on the bottom of the ocean, just sitting there, sunk during the war, it boggles the mind. Any of the Allied Single Seat fighters are probably to be found scattered all over the floor of the Atlantic. Considering they were packed for shipment before leaving port, there is a decent chance they are in good enough condition to restore. 

Just a thought.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 6, 2007)

Very cool. That would definatly be cool to see.


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## Civettone (Feb 8, 2007)

The link doesn't work for me.

What type of U-boot are we talking about? A Type IX? 

Kris


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 8, 2007)

Here is link that works.

BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Plan aims to raise WWII U-boat 

However it does not say what kind it is.


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## Erich (Feb 8, 2007)

wasn't this mentioned nearly 2 years ago with plans in the works ? maybe I am thinking of another one. there are many sitting at the bottom but personally I would like to think they be left as a memorial to the fallen ......

not my call E ~


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 8, 2007)

Actually now that you mention it. I completely agree, they are war graves. They should be left alone.


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## Erich (Feb 8, 2007)

side note and a bit OT but here goes .......... there has been for years talk of raising portions of the Titanic or at least allow for deep diving for exploration on the wreck ............ ah leave it alone is my philosophy. Shouldn't it be the same for the sunken U-boots ? sure I would be very interested in the U-boot Kapitän's written diary if they were not erased in time due to the ocean depths but ........


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree and I too have heard they wanted to raise parts of the Titanic. I dont think it would survive the accent to the surface anyway.


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## twoeagles (Feb 8, 2007)

My take on this is that beyond our generation of people who had family
members lost on the boats, their memory will rapidly fade. Raising even 
one more boat and putting it into a museum in proper historic context,
where the names of all the sailors can be listed for visitors to read as they
view what is now and will always remain a fascinating artifact, will allow
their memory to live for hundreds of years into the future. And while, as
an ex-Navy man I am very sensitive to respecting war graves of fighting
ships, sometimes there is more to be gained than lost. Hundreds of other
U-boats will rust into the seabed in the next hundred years - raising one
now as a tribute to them makes sense to me.


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## str8jax (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree raising one and showing it would be a better memorial,the youger generations are forgetting.what took place. I try to teach my kids so they wont forget. But are they raising one that was sunk in combat or scuttled?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 8, 2007)

If that is the case there are plenty of U-Boots then that are allready in Museusms.

U-995 is a Type VIIC in Laboe, Germany

U-2540 is a Type XXI in Bremerhaven, Germany

U-534 is a type IXC in Birkenhead, England

U-505 is a Type IXC and in Chicago, USA

And there are 3 more Type XXI in Hamburg, Germany that are in the underground U-Boot bunker and will hopefully be removed and put into museums.


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## timshatz (Feb 8, 2007)

I think they are subs that were scuttled after the war. Not sure, but I get that impression from the article. There were a large number scuttled after the war. But I thought they were dumped in deeper water.


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## Gnomey (Feb 8, 2007)

I agree Chris, if there are so many in museums (and in the underground pens) then raising what is a war grave shouldn't be done.


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## str8jax (Feb 8, 2007)

Did not know there were that many but none are anywhere near close enough for me to go see. And I would also raise the ones that were scuttled not sunk with men inside.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 8, 2007)

The scuttled ones I can understand.


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## bigZ (Feb 8, 2007)

Live a couple of miles from U534. Unfortunately the site is to be redeveloped and the submarine to go elsewhere. Missed my chance to go aboard.


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## str8jax (Feb 8, 2007)

Nice pic tell them to send it to texas


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 8, 2007)

Damn she is in bad shape.

Here is U-995 and U-2540 below it. Both are in Germany.


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## trackend (Feb 9, 2007)

I see no harm in raising a vessel that was a target boat or scuttled IE Scapa Flows German fleet as these are not war graves and contain no human remains but theres a few scuba guys that need there arses kicking. I spoke to an instructor some years ago and he said that even vessels like the Royal Oak are being raided by sport divers for prizes.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 10, 2007)

I agree trackened.


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## Henk (Feb 11, 2007)

I would love to see U-2540, she was way before her time. Great to know there are still left. Adler can you go inside her?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 11, 2007)

Not sure on that. I myself have not been to see her yet, but I think you can. I think the whole sub is a museum to tour.


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## HealzDevo (Feb 27, 2007)

Yes, good to hear that there are some still in good condition.  Would love to see efforts made to find the dumping grounds from the Carriers after WW2. Perhaps even the US Vietnam Era dumping ground would be good to find for restorable treasures...


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## timshatz (Feb 28, 2007)

They dump Tanks and other armored vehicles off New Jersey from time to time. There are a few M60s and M113s out there. Think there is a site where pics are available of them going into the water.


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## comiso90 (Feb 28, 2007)

The U-505 in Chicago was the first enemy vessel captured by the Americans on the high seas since the War or 1812. They scooped 2 Enigma machines and 900 pounds of code books in the process.

U-505 Submarine at the Museum of Science and Industry

They also have a JU-87 .....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 28, 2007)

Very significant event but the first enigma and code books were captured by the Royal Navy on the U-110 on May 9, 1941.


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## comiso90 (Feb 28, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Very significant event but the first enigma and code books were captured by the Royal Navy on the U-110 on May 9, 1941.



Yes, but I believe these were the first captured with the 4th rotor.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 28, 2007)

Not sure about that. The only reason I brought that up is because everyone thinks that the movie U-571 and the capture of the first enigma is historically correct when in fact U-571 is based off of U-110 and was captured by Royal Navy before the US Navy was even in the war.


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## comiso90 (Feb 28, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> Yes, but I believe these were the first captured with the 4th rotor.



Nope the Brits got it again:

In February of 1942, Enigma under went another change. A fourth wheel was added to the machine. Officials in the German high command had noticed a decrease in the rate at which their U-boats were being able to find allied convoys. Several security measures were added to the Enigma machine in order to increase security including another wheel. The British received another break in the fall of 1942; U-559 was attacked and forced to surface in the Mediterranean Sea. The crew attempted to scuttle the U-boat, a maneuver they had not practiced. Because of this it took some time before the U-boat sank, a boarding crew from H.M.S. Petard managed to get aboard the sinking boat and retrieve many classified documents. These documents aided the British in decrypting messages from the new four-rotor cipher machines.[18]


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 1, 2007)

Thanks for the info.


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## HealzDevo (Mar 4, 2007)

It seems the poor old US was a bit behind everything when it came to Enigma machine...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 5, 2007)

Yeah but the ones they captured helped out a whole lot as well.


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## timshatz (Mar 5, 2007)

HealzDevo said:


> It seems the poor old US was a bit behind everything when it came to Enigma machine...



They were focusing on Japanese codes. 

It is interesting that both Enigma (German Codes) and Purple (Japenese Codes- later called Majic) were figured out by guys who figured out how the machines would work. Enigma worked on a rotor system while Purple worked on switching system. These guys (one Polish for the Enigma and another American for Purple) had the insight to understand how the codes worked mechanically from the output. They figured the codes from there. 

Those two guys had help from other sources but they were, without a doubt, two very bright bulbs.


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## davparlr (Mar 5, 2007)

From what I understand, the American commander went against direct orders not to capture a German U-boat. There was concern that, if the Germans found out about the capture of a U-boat, they would change their coding system.

If so, the guy is no hero.


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## HealzDevo (Mar 11, 2007)

He is still a hero. How often does Command get things right anyway, and as long as none of the crew gets away, nobody really needs to know about that capture, do they?


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