# Seeking Some Advice



## Ambaryerno (Jul 21, 2020)

So as with many people here I'm sure, I started building plastic models as a kid, mostly starting with the old Matchbox 1/72 kits. I eventually graduated to Tamiya's kits in the same scale, with a smattering of 1/48s. It's been a while but I'd like to start building again, and have two particular kits in mind: I have a 1/32 Trumpeter F4F-3 (while my favorite plane of all time is the F4U-1A, I have a soft spot for the tubby little Grumman) kit waiting until I actually have space to work, and I'm also looking at doing a 26FS/51FG P-51B in the same scale (you don't seem to see too many shark-mouthed P-51s, much less anything that's not 8th AF or the 332nd, so thought that would be a unique subject).

I plan to use aftermarket detail kits for both. For the Wildcat, I was looking at the Aires Brownings, but I'm not certain which would be the correct one:

Browning .50cal Wing Mounted Electrical

Browning .50cal Wing Mounted Mechanical

I'm not sure whether the Wildcat (or the P-51, for that matter) should use the electric or mechanical version. Both kits I plan to have the gun bays open so I'd like that additional detail. I've tried doing a Google search in the past but haven't had much luck finding information. I presume the electric vs. mechanical has to do with the feed or cycling mechanism.

I'm planning to do a VF-6 Wildcat (March 1942 with the comically oversized roundels. I love the dark humor behind it them, especially the fact that _Enterprise's_ aircrews took the oversized markings to an extreme). I can go with the kit markings, but I'd thought it might be more interesting to do McClusky's bird from before he became CAG of the _Enterprise_ air group. However I haven't been able to find much on his aircraft (granted, I know the Navy didn't really have "assigned" fighters the way the USAAF did).

For the P-51, has anyone seen any of the old Jerry Rutman 1/32 resin P-51B kits floating around? It sounds like every other kit leaves far too much to be desired, as the Trumpeter is some sort of bizarre Frankenstein with a P-51D, and the Revell is...well...a Revell.

I was also thinking of setting up the P-51 in a scene with the ground crew working on harmonizing the guns, so I'd also be interested in any information on how the tail of the plane was actually lifted to facilitate this. Would they have just lifted the tail with a sling from a truck, or used something else?

Thanks in advance for any recommendations!


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## TheAircraftBuilder (Jul 29, 2020)

I may be able to help in the first area and definitely in your second query.

M2s were fired using electrical solenoids when mounted in wings, etc. I recall most later US types had gone to electrical firing by the time of the P-51 although I'm happy to be proven wrong! 50 cals are fed and cycled via mechanical recoil action - e.g. not requiring external power to feed rounds into the gun. 

As for jacking the mustang up for setting up convergence they might use a tail jack like the one pictured here.




You see a similar set up with most tail-draggers in most airforces. If they were wanting to be particularly accurate they would have the wings supported by jacks also (e.g none of the landing gear wheels touching the deck). 

This doesn't by any means discount the possibility of an enterprising crew using other unofficial methods to support an aircraft - depending on how austere their location/situation....!

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## Ambaryerno (Jul 29, 2020)

Ok, so it sounds like I'd want to use the Electric version of the Aires M2 for the P-51B for certain, and probably the Wildcat, as well.

The P-51 I'm looking at doing is from the 26th FS/51st FG out of Kunming.


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## R Leonard (Jul 29, 2020)

In USN carrier squadrons, VF, VB, VS, & VT, pilots were indeed assigned specific aircraft. It was the vagaries of carrier operations that more often than not led to an individual pilot flying F-"someone else's" numbered airplane plane. McClusky, as CO of VF-6, would have been assigned F-6-1. His wingman (for they were still using three 2 plane sections per division) would have been assigned 6-F-2. Squadron XO, well, it changed over time, first Corbin, then Gray, would have had nominally assigned 6-F-7, leading the second division and the squadron flight officer would lead the third division in 6-F-13. An 18 plane squadron. The VS and VB squadrons, also with 18 planes, usually found the CO in #1, the FO in #7 and the XO in #13 . . . go figure.

Not VF-6, but certainly typical in organization, though with 27 planes instead of the 18 of your period of interest, is the attached squadron organization for VF-3 after XO Lovelace was killed. Note Thach has F-1 and the flight officer (next ranking in the squadron with the death of Lovelace & soon to fleet up the the XO slot, Leonard, has F-13, half way through the numbering sequence. One might remember that Thach flew F-23 in the morning strike escort mission. There were only, off the top of my head, only four, maybe, five, VF-3 pilots who flew the actual plane to which they were assigned in the battle.

In fact, Leonard's plane had been numbered 26 and his wingman Adams had 27, but when word got out that Thach was going to appoint him XO, numbers 26 and 27 were struck below by the VF-42 maintenance folks and quickly re-numbered. The plane in which Lovelace was killed was the original F-13 and the plane that crashed into his was the original F-14. Both were struck below for depot overhaul. Both ended getting tossed overboard in the ill fated Yorktown salvage effort.

An original document in my possession, I believe it to be the only one in existence.

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## Ambaryerno (Jul 29, 2020)

So basically if I can find any images of 6-F-1 for that time period, I can be reasonably sure that it's McCluskey. Is there any way you can think of to be able to find the S/Ns if I can't find a pic, or if it's not readable?


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## R Leonard (Jul 29, 2020)

If you see a picture of F-6-1 from the time McCluskey was CO, you may be assured that was his assigned plane, but if in the air from at sea operations, there is no guarantee he's the pilot.

From Lundstrom's The First Team I have only a partial list of bureau numbers with corresponding side numbers from 1 Feb 1942. The F4F-3 F-6-1 is not one for which there was a BuNo: 3908 was #3 (Mehle), 3910 was #5 (Daniels), 3936 was #6 (Hibbert), 3912 was #7 (Corbin), 3917 was #9 (Hermann), 3926 was # 10 (Rich), 3920 was #13 (Gray), 3914 was #14 (Rawie), 4035 was #15 (Heisel), 3937 was #16 (Criswell), and 3916 was #17 (Holt).


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## Ambaryerno (Jul 29, 2020)

I suppose it wouldn't be completely unreasonable to guess that F-1 might have been 3906, since #3, 5, and 7 fit that pattern. Although since the rest of the machines listed don't I'd be hesitant to simply assume this is the case.

Edit: I just did a search for that BuNo. Seems 3906 WAS an Enterprise Wildcat, but was damaged by friendly fire while attempting to land at Ford Island after Pearl Harbor, and broke in two. So most likely that machine was written off.


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## R Leonard (Jul 30, 2020)

Well, let’s see

At the end of May 1941 VF-6 had 18 F4F-3A, no F4F-3, and 2 SNJ-3 squadron hacks. The -3As were probably, probably, mind you, from an allotment of BuNos 3905-3969 delivered to AirBatFor in San Diego for assignment during February 1941. VF-6 was still operating F3Fs that month and through March 1941; at the end of March, VF-6 shows 12 F3F-2, 3 F3F-3, and 1 SU hack. The February allotment of -3As was still in San Diego. In the meantime, F4F-3 BuNos 3864-3874 and 3994-4017 were likewise delivered to AirBatFor San Diego for assignment by the end of March.

The April 1941 report shows VF-6 evidently making the transition to the F4F-3A; squadron inventory shows 2 F3F-2, 3 F3F-3, 2 SNJ-3, & 2 SU-2 with a notation that F4F-3A, no number specified, were on order. Evidently some 32 of the -3As at AirBatFor had been distributed as only BuNos 3937-3969 remain in their inventory. There is no indication how those were assigned. AirBatFor inventory of F4F-3s remained unchanged. 

As noted above, by the end of May, VF-6 was equipped with its full complement of -3As. There is no indication of which BuNos went to the squadron. (Apropos of nothing else, my father’s squadron, VF-42, and it’s companion, VF-41, aboard USS Ranger both show full complements of F4F-3s, 18 each; VF-42 would transfer to USS Yorktown in June with 21 -3s and remain aboard until VF-3 comes aboard after the Battle of the Coral Sea and even then, half the pilots in VF-3 were TAD from VF-42 for the Midway deployment.) 

June 1941 shows all F4F-3As as delivered with no notations regarding BuNos and VF-6 still shows an inventory of 18 F4F-3A and 2 VM types, presumably the aforementioned 2 SNJ-3. The unassigned F4F-3 as AirBatFor have been shuffled about, added to and subtracted from . . . BuNos 3982-3992 remained there but 3993-4017 went back east to VMF-1 at MCAS Quantico. AirBatFor is also starting to see arrivals of F4F-4 types BuNos 5070-5112 and 5170-5236 for future assignment. The first -4s to Pacific Fleet squadrons went to VF-6 and VF-8 in the spring of 1942. 

July 1941 shows VF-6 with its standard 18 -3As and now 1 SNJ, a notation reads that the -3A complement is scheduled to go to 19 in October. AirBatFor is not showing any -3s nor -3As BuNos this month (though that does not mean they don’t have any) and no changes to its -4 inventory. It would appear that the 63 -3As noted service wide have found homes:
NAS Norfolk – 1
NAS Anacostia – 1
BAD-1 Quantico – 1
VMF-111 Quantico – 16
AirBatFor San Diego – 5
VF-6 USS Enterprise – 18
AirBatFor Pearl Harbor – 1
FleetTacU Pearl Harbor – 1
NAS Norfolk -1
VF-5 NAS Norfolk -18

And the 163 F4F-3s on hand have, likewise, have been assigned and 15 more to be delivered:
NAS Anacostia – 2
InspNavAirc P&W – 1
BAD-2 San Diego – 20
BAD-1 Quantico – 22
VF-42 – USS Yorktown – 21
AirBatFor Pearl Harbor – 1
VF-71 USS Wasp – 18
VMF-221 San Diego – 15
AirLant Norfolk – 21 (plus BuNos 4043-4057 expected delivery in September)
VF-41 USS Ranger – 16
AirBatFor San Diego – 4
VF-72 USS Wasp – 19

By end of September 1941 all of the -3s and -3As had been delivered and from there were moved about as necessary to the needs of the service. There are no Bu Nos listed for any of these moves, so I’ll skip the rest of the reports.


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## Ambaryerno (Jul 30, 2020)

Interesting that this is reporting VF-6 as -3As. The report I found about #3906 called it a -3. Maybe by December 7 the -3As were replaced due to their performance issues?


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## R Leonard (Jul 30, 2020)

BuNo 3906 was an F4F-3A, the BuNo series for this version being 3875-3969.


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## Ambaryerno (Jul 30, 2020)

Well, I suppose that narrows it down a bit, then. 6-F-1 had to have been somewhere within that range.


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## R Leonard (Jul 30, 2020)

Well, you can't forget that the original 6-F-1 was destroyed in a forced landing in a cane field after being damaged over Pearl Harbor on the evening of 7 December 1941. We know that that F4F-3A was 3906. LTJG Francis Frederick Hebel, USN was was pulled from the wreckage, but died the next day from his injuries sustained in the crash. So, 3906 can be excluded as an example of the over-sized national insignia used in the April-May 1942 period.


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## Ambaryerno (Jul 30, 2020)

Ah, so 3906 WAS 6-F-1, fitting the pattern I noted with Nos. 3, 5, and 7, but was replaced by another machine after it broke up on landing. So, we know for sure it can't be:

3906 F-1 Destroyed 12/7/41
3908 F-3
3910 F-5
3936 F-6
3912 F-7
3917 F-9
3926 F-10
3920 F-13
3914 F-14
4035 F-15 This one doesn't fit the range for the -3A you gave. Was it an oddball, or was it a different model? Or is it an error? This list says that aircraft was a -3 assigned to VF-2 and lost with _Lexington_.
3937 F-16
3916 F-17

Heh, 12 down 82 to go.


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## Ambaryerno (Jul 30, 2020)

Ok, this is the list of F4F-3A BuNos I got from Joe Baugher's site, along with the list you gave me:

3875 - 3904 sold to Greece/RN
3906 F-1 Lost 12/41
3907 VF-6 Lost 12/41 - Could this have been F-2?
3908 F-3 - MAG21 Lost 8/42 - Apparently was transferred to MAG21 in Hawaii?
3909 F-4? Lost 12/41
3910 F-5 - VMF-214 Lost 9/42
3911 VMF-212 Lost 5/42
3912 F-7
3914 F-14 - 1st USN kill. This could make a nice subject for in of itself
3915 VMF-212 Lost 5/42
3916 VMF-212 Lost 5/42
3917 F-17
3918 VMF-212 Lost 8/42
3919 w/o 6/41
3920 F-13
3921 w/o 7/41
3926 F-10
3932 Lost 2/42
3934 w/o 8/41
3935 Lost 12/41
3936 F-6
3937 F-16 Lost 2/42
3938 Lost 12/41
3953 w/o 8/41
3956
3964 VF-2 Lost 5/42
3969 Lost 11/43 in Lake Michigan
4035 F-15 - VF-2 lost 5/42

So 3875-3904 can be ruled out since those were transferred overseas. Nor can it be any of the machines lost or written off in 1941 or prior to 3/42. 4035 is an anomaly, being a BuNo. for an F4F-3. However including the -3 Wildcats (if VF-6 received one -3 for March 1942, it's possible they received others) expands the list of possibilities further.

Accounting for aircraft with known fuselage numbers, or were lost prior to March 1942, there's a total of 46 possible aircraft IF 6-F-1 at that time was a -3A


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## R Leonard (Jul 30, 2020)

4035 was an F4F-3, lat with VF-2, lost with USS Lexington at Coral Sea.

Details on some of your list . . . 3935 (6-F-15) also lost on 7 Dec, crashing near Pearl City; ENS Herbert H Menges, killed. 3938 was 6-F-12 also lost 7 Dec, crashing near Ford Island; LTJG Eric Allen was wounded and died the next day. 3982 was a VF-3 -3A on loan from VF-3, 3-F-15 (and an earlier side number of 3-F-9), got shot up on 7 Dec and produced a harrowing landing for ENS Gayle L Hermann, but he was unharmed; it was repaired and eventually lost with VF-2 with Lexington at Coral Sea. 3904 was 6-F-4 which was another lost on 7 Dec; the pilot ENS David R Flynn parachuted to safety unharmed. As you've discovered, 3910, 6-F-5, got traded to VMF-214 and was eventually destroyed in a landing accident. The next 6-F-5 was 3916; ENS James G Daniels III was able to land safely on 7 Dec at Ford Island after most of the shooting stopped. I believe 3521 was destroyed on the ground in the Pearl Harbor raid, but I'll willing to be corrected.

By the end of January 1942 VF-6 had 13 F4F-3A and 5 F4F-3. I would bet that one of those -3's was McCluskey's mount.

BuNo 2532 shows up as a VF-6 F4F-3, 6-F-8, in April 1942. It had earlier been with VF-42 up until February. BuNo 3994 was in VF-6, 6-F-24, involved in a non-strike deck crash on 21 April; pilot was AP1c Howard Packard.

Also some of the -3As and -3s aboard USS Lexington with VF-3 in February 1942:
3976 F-1, Thach (-3A) Later lost after being traded to VF-2 at Coral Sea, went down with Lexington
4009 F-5, Stanley (-3) was traded to VF-42 later, 14 March, but crashed on take off from Lexington on the ferry flight. VF-42's Walt Haas was rescued. He would later be credited as being the first USN pilot to down an A6M2, this at Coral Sea.
4021 F-7, Lovelace (-3)
3986 F-13, Gayler (-3) Later lost after being traded to VF-2 at Coral Sea, went down with Lexington
4031 F-15, Lemmon (-3) This was the -3 flown by O'Hare in his action against the G4Ms

and last but least, BuNo 1895, F4F-3, was my father's assigned plane 42-F-3 until John Preston had a runaway prop at Otey Mesa in January 1942 and it suffered a very hard landing. later went to VMF-111 where it crashed in Jan 1943 in Samoa and was stricken. Not sure the BuNo of its replacement, that log book went down with Yorktown.

And don't forget that the first 30 F4F-3As went to the Royal Navy by a contract with the Greeks that was OBE.


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## Ambaryerno (Jul 30, 2020)

Ok, so 4035 was indeed a -3, then transferred to _Lex_.

Was F-4 3904 or 3909? According to Baugher's list 3904 was Lend/Lease.

Hm, expanding to include the -3s is adding a whole lot more hay to the stack, lol.


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## Ambaryerno (Jul 30, 2020)

I suppose if I can't find enough material to do 6-F-1 I could always do a "flight" display with 6-F-14 and an A5M4. Now if only I could find details and markings for the aircraft Rawie shot down (so far I've got the pilot name, Lieutenant Kurakane, and that he was operating out of Taroa). Lol.


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## R Leonard (Jul 30, 2020)

Ambaryerno said:


> Ok, so 4035 was indeed a -3, then transferred to _Lex_.
> 
> Was F-4 3904 or 3909? According to Baugher's list 3904 was Lend/Lease.



That's a typo, now fixed. 3904 was to go the Greeks but ended up with the Royal Navy. I meant to type 3909.

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## Ambaryerno (Jul 31, 2020)

Still leaves quite a few BuNos to sort through, especially once -3s are added into the mix.


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## Ambaryerno (Aug 5, 2020)

I've been thinking about it more, and I'm sort of tempted to do Rawie's 6-F-14. Since McClusky's biggest claim to fame is his actions at Midway, Rawie's ship (first USN pilot and plane to score a victory in WWII) has a bit more historical interest. And it would still have the oversized roundels (I believe _Enterprise's_ air group was already carrying them by the end of January).

My kit is the Trumpeter F4F-3 (Late). What needs to be done to convert to a -3A? I saw there's a 1/32 AM for the 1830-90 engine available as a start.


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## Ambaryerno (Aug 6, 2020)

Speaking of, does anyone have any information on the aircraft Rawie shot down? I know it was an A5M4 based out of Taroa, belonging to the 4th Kokutai. I'd seen the name of the pilot somewhere but can't find it right now, but I'd be looking for what markings it would have carried. I'd had a thought of doing a flight display with Rawie's F4F and the A5M. I could possibly do the Wildcat in the 1/32 kit with the A5M in a smaller scale for forced perspective.

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## RWGWAG (Jan 7, 2021)

I actually thought of the doing the same thing with Gray’s aircraft that day, presumably F-13/3920, that should’ve received quite a few holes. I need to find a VF-6 report that says which aircraft he was in that was damaged and landed last.

Anyways, I’ve seen some Chitose/4th Kokutai A5M4s on decals sheets in the past with conflicting info as to whether the aircraft were white or khaki/gray. Anyways, they had red tails and S-1xx on the tail, some with stripes. Honestly, I’m not that familiar with Japanese aircraft markings from the period. I’m also not sure how accurate the decal sheets are or if any of the aircraft are the actual ones in question.


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## RWGWAG (Feb 3, 2021)

> By the end of January 1942 VF-6 had 13 F4F-3A and 5 F4F-3. I would bet that one of those -3's was McCluskey's mount.



I would guess that McClusky’s new mount was 3973. By looking at Lundstrom’s “First Team”, and the consequent BuNos for the lost aircraft on 7 December, I think 3973 was either F-1 or F-12. Anyone know of the second F-12’s BuNo?


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## RWGWAG (Feb 3, 2021)

This Navy photo shows an Enterprise Wildcat taking off on 24 February 1942, the day of the Wake Island raid. According to Lundstrom, McClusky was flying F-1 that day, and this photo shows an F4F-3 with a black 1 on the starboard side of its cowling. It also does not have the larger national insignia on the fuselage, but clearly has the wing insignias on the undersides of both wings. I would guess this aircraft was recently received since it’s being brought up to VF-6’s paint scheme standards. So, F-1 was an F4F-3 for sure, but it looks much more recently recieved than my prior guess, 3973 probably looked, since 3973 had been with VF-6 since December 1941 and there would have been plenty of time to bring it up to paint scheme regulations. Again referencing Lundstrom’s excellent BuNos list per cruise in “The First Team”, VF-6 received three new F4F-3s for the 14 Feb-10 March cruise comprising BuNos 4000, 4002, and 4017. 4017 is off the table because it was lost on 24 February and Lundstrom states that aircraft was F-2. So, if my hypothesis is correct and the photo date, then the evidence points to 4000 or 4002 being F-1, the aircraft McClusky scored a kill in near Wake.

Oddly though, the aircraft is carrying a bomb (as is the one behind it), which VF-6 did not carry for the Wake Island raid. Could this possibly be a photo from the Marshall Islands raid on 1 February? If so, then I guess 3973 is still on the table as a possibility.


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