# Best Looking FW-190??



## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 11, 2004)

me and CC have been having this debate for a while, so it's time to settle it, which was the best looking varient of the FW-190??


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 11, 2004)

The D Obviously, I am 95% certain it will win.

And are you actually going to vote in this poll?


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## JCS (Oct 11, 2004)

Definately the A.  The nose of the D is just plain ugly.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 11, 2004)

Shoot that man!


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## lesofprimus (Oct 11, 2004)

I cannot believe he just said that... He is TRYING to pick a fight...

The Dora was one of the sweetest looking planes in the sky....


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## lesofprimus (Oct 11, 2004)

And BTW, no spamming votes..... ONE VOTE PER MEMBER!!!!


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## kiwimac (Oct 11, 2004)

I like both AND the TA-152!

Kiwimac


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 12, 2004)

You can only vote once anyway les 8)


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## evangilder (Oct 12, 2004)

I gotta go with the A. The D looks too stretched.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 12, 2004)

The D is beautiful. End of story. Me and Les are the only people here with their eyes plugged in it seems


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 12, 2004)

and i have voted in this poll, and yes, the A is the better looking............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 12, 2004)

....and yes, the lancs hair is obscuring his vision.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 12, 2004)

no it's not, it's over at the sides now...............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 12, 2004)

Sure...


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## lesofprimus (Oct 12, 2004)

Evan Im disapointed in u mano... I thought for sure u were a sensible, well rounded individual... Ur choice proves me wrong...  

Hey CC, Lanc thinks the Lancaster looks sexy, so his judgement is WAYYYYY off kilter....

And BTW, there is a way to vote more than once.. We already discussed this.... And it is TABOO....


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Oct 12, 2004)

I like the A far better.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 13, 2004)

yes, thank you..............


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## evangilder (Oct 13, 2004)

Sorry Les, I like the aesthetics of the A. Besides, I like radial engines. Either way, it was a formidable fighter.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 13, 2004)

Both look very good, I do not in any way think the A is ugly. But the D looks much, MUCH better.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 13, 2004)

Although we are on the winning edge of the poll, I feel u and I are the minority here CC....


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## MichaelHenley (Oct 13, 2004)

I just can't decide...


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## GermansRGeniuses (Oct 13, 2004)

The D. 8)

I haven't been posting because the folks took the keyboard - on Windows' on-screen keyboard...


*EDIT*-Back, beeyatches.


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## Maestro (Oct 14, 2004)

GermansRGeniuses said:


> *EDIT*-Back, beeyatches.



Uh... ? Is "beeyatches" a new word ?


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 14, 2004)

lesofprimus said:


> Although we are on the winning edge of the poll, I feel u and I are the minority here CC....



Yup, but if everyone else wants to be wrong its up to them...


Maestro, "beeyatches" is a rendition on the word Bitches


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 15, 2004)

you said a naughty word


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 15, 2004)

Bitch: The female form of a dog.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 16, 2004)

not in the context you used it in..............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 16, 2004)

Woot the D is winning


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## Maestro (Oct 16, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> Maestro, "beeyatches" is a rendition on the word Bitches



Ah, right. Thanks for pointing it out.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 17, 2004)

it's only winning by two votes.............


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## lesofprimus (Oct 17, 2004)

Its still winning tho.....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 17, 2004)

you just wait, soon the A will be ahead.............


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## lesofprimus (Oct 17, 2004)

NO ILLEGAL VOTE SPAMMING ALLOWED LANC!!!!!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 17, 2004)

who me


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 17, 2004)

If the lanc is so confident the A will win, he wouldnt need to resort to that anyway, would he.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 18, 2004)

it will win.................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 18, 2004)

Only if you cheat lanc 

The Dora is far superior in style and ability.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 19, 2004)

ability yes, style, no..................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 19, 2004)

All the 190 variants look superb. But I prefer sleek looking planes to short fat ones, which is why I ultimately prefer the style of the Dora. The A is still a good looking plane though.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 19, 2004)

8-6 in favor of the Dora.....

I cant understand how someone can say the A has more style than the D...... U must need glasses to think that....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 20, 2004)

Yup :lol


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 20, 2004)

but it looks so much better...................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 20, 2004)

To you: Yes.

To the majority: No.


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## evangilder (Oct 20, 2004)

lesofprimus said:


> 8-6 in favor of the Dora.....
> 
> I cant understand how someone can say the A has more style than the D...... U must need glasses to think that....



Hey, I wear glasses, that must 'splain it!  I do like the A better, but I have a bumper sticker on my car that says "Real airplanes have round engines". Sorry, I will always be a radial man.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 20, 2004)

I have a picture of a car with a home made engine. Some guy stuck 3 BMW Single cylinder bike engines in a tri-star shape together and put it on the front of his car


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## MichaelHenley (Oct 20, 2004)

Okeydoke, I've chohosen D. Dunno why


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 22, 2004)

couldn't you havegone for the A, it was much better looking................

and we could have done with the vote..............


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## lesofprimus (Oct 22, 2004)

The D was much better looking than the A.... All the "Experts" agree, of which CC and myself are included.....

And u can beg for all the votes u like Lanc, but the D is still gonna win....


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## evangilder (Oct 22, 2004)

Better be careful with the word Expert, Les. An Ex is a has been and a spurt is a drip under pressure!


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## lesofprimus (Oct 22, 2004)

Hehe... Just like ur not supposed to Assume, cause u make an ASS outta U and ME.....

And just for the record, I am a has been, but far from a drip....


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## Gemhorse (Oct 22, 2004)

Well, I like both, the 'A' for it's original innovation and ability to achieve Air Superiority [for awhile]...they were also terrific 'all-rounders', and the fact that if you've gotta million or two, you can now buy genuine reproduction A-series aircraft [from 'Flugwerk', in Germany].....
- And I like the 'D' series [and 'Ta'-series] too, for their superb technological developments and Combat-ability, and by the grace of Hitler's Dysfunction, that he meddled and dicked-around so much that they never achieved real production, because we may have been in the doo-doo if that had happened......they were a superb aircraft...so I won't vote in this instance, because to me they were both 'good-looking'... as youse put it.........


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## Erich (Oct 23, 2004)

the Ta 152 or can this be counted ?

E ~


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 23, 2004)

wow erich you're back, where did you go??

and no, the Ta-152 can't be be counted, i didn't put it in the poll because the argument we've been having is between the A and the D, but just for the record i think the Ta-152 is better looking than both the A and the D, but it can't be included....................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 23, 2004)

WB Erich


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## Erich (Oct 23, 2004)

hey guys, yeah just fighting the cancer thing a little and gone on researh hunting.....

Well I think both are sharp a/c. A had the better weapons platform while the longer winged Dora was more suited to take on the P-51 Mustangs at a higher altitude. Like I said the Dora was a short term solution till the Ta 152 could be brought in but we all know how that turned out.

E ~


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2004)

but remember we're doing this purely on looks, nothing else...............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

*Distant Chanting*

"Vote D! Vote D!"


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

Man the Dora is runnin away with it now CC........ 13-8....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2004)

hey hey hey, it's only 5 votes behind..........................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

Yeah, I think this poll should be renamed "The Foregone Conclusion"


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

It shoulda been, "Which is better looking, the Fw-109D or The Ta-152H"...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

I can try adding the Ta-152 to the poll if you like...


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

Its too late now.... And besides, I cant recast my vote for the -152....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2004)

stop murdering my poll................


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

Need a tissue Lanc??? When are u gonna throw in the towel and admit the "D" was better looking????


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

See lanc, the A just isnt comparable with the D


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 12, 2004)

The Dora or D series is bar far the better looking one. It was sleaker and slender looking. The A series looked I think far more mean and terrifying but the Dora was by far just beautiful. Her longer and more slender nose made her more attractive. She was far more impressive I think too. The cockpit blended more in with the airframe.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 12, 2004)

I couldnt agree more.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 12, 2004)

i couldn't agree less, the A was far beter looking...................


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 12, 2004)

Yep, the A looks better. 8) 
That whole inline-with-the-radial-look thing of the D, plus the stretched fuselage make the whole thing look a little...well...goofy!


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 12, 2004)

Dude you guys are outta your minds.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 12, 2004)

no we're not, any sane person can see the A's the better looking...............


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 12, 2004)

The A actually "looks" lethal! The D, while being equally deadly, just looks silly.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 12, 2004)

There is no way that any sane, intelligent, common-sensed individual can say that the Dora looked silly or goofy.... Thats just downright Stevie Wonder//Ray Charles Blind....

When was the last time u had ur eyeglass prescription checked??? May be time to get a new pair of specs....

BTW, I find the -190A equally as mean and sexy as the -190D... I'm a big fan of both....


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 12, 2004)

Nope. Eyes are fine. Dora looks goofy. 
By comparison, that is.

Chill, man. You're gonna have a stroke.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 12, 2004)

> Chill, man. You're gonna have a stroke.


What the hell are u talkin about??? I was was worked up, u'd know it... Ur new here; dont think you automatically know everyone here.... You have yet to see me get excited....


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 12, 2004)

Yeah, yeah!
What's your address? I'll mail ya a quarter!


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## lesofprimus (Nov 12, 2004)

Actually the price is now up to $87.49 cents American... I accept visa/mastercard and personal checks..... Please make out check to Ashole American....


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 12, 2004)

Sorry, that was funny!


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## lesofprimus (Nov 12, 2004)

I hope so...... I tried to make it atleast slightly humorous....


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 12, 2004)

Bury the hatchet? I wasn't trying to get you wound up. Honest. 8)


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## lesofprimus (Nov 12, 2004)

And since I didnt get wound up, there was no hatchet, hence nothing to bury.... 

I have been outta town the last 3 weeks, home on weekends... Sucks..... And I'm going away again this week..... GRRRRRRRR.....


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 12, 2004)

Really? What is it you do?


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## lesofprimus (Nov 12, 2004)

I install network and phone systems. I run a Regional office with 3 employes...


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 12, 2004)

Sounds good! A lot of running around, but I'll bet the work is steady.  
Sounds like it, anyway!


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## lesofprimus (Nov 12, 2004)

Its always busy, too busy actually... And this out of town stuff is slowin down my production down here in my own Area.... My crew and I are helping out a different out of town office with their overload.. 

His techs up there are worthless..... Im having to bail his ass out...


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 12, 2004)

Heh!
Well, good luck man!


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## lesofprimus (Nov 12, 2004)

Thx Ill need it....


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 13, 2004)

les, how comes you *always* get involved in arguments?


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 13, 2004)

Nah, I'm partially to blame for that one!
I'm normally very thick skinned (and maybe thick headed  ), but I was just in a bit of a mood yesterday.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 13, 2004)

Ah ok  but les is in every argument


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 13, 2004)

where as me and CC just have random conversations, we only argue when discussing the P-38 and mossie................


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 13, 2004)

Yup.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 13, 2004)

a topic we both feel very strongly about...............


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 13, 2004)

What, the random conversations?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 13, 2004)

yes, there are many variations to the topic of random conversations, i believe we prefer the "started from a joke then evolved into a series of valid points about very random issues"............


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2004)

Im not in EVERY argument, but some Ill take credit for.... Arguments sometimes lead to more information about a certain subject....


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 13, 2004)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> yes, there are many variations to the topic of random conversations, i believe we prefer the "started from a joke then evolved into a series of valid points about very random issues"............



Yup, i believe we are experiencing this now.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2004)

And for the Record, the Vote stands at 16 to 12 in favor of the Fw-190'D"........


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 13, 2004)

Yes, emphasis on _*D*_


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 13, 2004)

the A's closing the gap....................


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2004)

Only cause u be spammin votes cheater.........


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 13, 2004)

i haven't spam voted on this poll yet, if i had, you'd know about it................


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2004)

For some reason I doubt we would know if u were spamming votes... U certainly wouldnt tell us......


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 13, 2004)

what i mean is the A would be several hundred votes in front..............


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2004)

No because then it would be obvious, and ur not a dumb Brit are u?????


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 13, 2004)

nope, but you see i could spam it that far ahead, and it would be obvious, but how are you gonna change the result??


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 13, 2004)

I dont understand how you guys think the A looked better than the Dora. The Dora just looked magnificant while the A looked quite bulky and ungraceful. Dont take me wrong it was a great plane but It was definatly not attracive. The cockpit was too angular it was just big. While the Dora looked more graceful but jet at the same time was extremely deadly.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 13, 2004)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> nope, but you see i could spam it that far ahead, and it would be obvious, but how are you gonna change the result??



By giving you 10 yellow warnings so that youre blocked from the site - thats how.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 13, 2004)

Woh I hope that was not meant mor me


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 13, 2004)

Nope  was intended at the lanc 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 14, 2004)

didn't see that one coming................



> I dont understand how you guys think the A looked better than the Dora



because it was better looking than the dora...........................


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 14, 2004)

I'm not back pedalling here  , just clarifying my earlier remarks.

When I said the D looked goofy, I meant when compared to the A.
In general, the D ain't a bad lookin' plane. Pretty cool, actually.

But IMO the A still looks better!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 14, 2004)

i'll second that.....................


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## lesofprimus (Nov 14, 2004)

The D was better looking than the A..... And a better fighter.....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 14, 2004)

the better fighter perhaps, but that's not what the threads about, it's about the A being better loking than the D................


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## lesofprimus (Nov 14, 2004)

Which it isnt..... The poll proves that.....


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 14, 2004)

Indeed it does.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 15, 2004)

Well we can go back and forth with yes it is and no it isn't but I will put it out for good, The Dora is by far better looking.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 15, 2004)

Thankyou


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 15, 2004)

Any time.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 17, 2004)

the A's better loking than the D, just face it............


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 17, 2004)

Why?  The poll and the people of this website prove otherwise


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 19, 2004)

many people agree with me however..............


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 19, 2004)

But more people agree with me! Its IMPOSSIBLE to talk yourslef out of this, face it!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 20, 2004)

you just wiat 'till i spam vote it ahead.............


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 20, 2004)

If it becomes ahead im issuing you a yellow warning mister...


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## lesofprimus (Nov 20, 2004)

Piss on that.. He gets a red card for spammin votes......


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 20, 2004)

Good call...y'hear that lanc?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 20, 2004)

but what if by some miracle the A goes ahead from genuine votes, do i still get a card then??


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## lesofprimus (Nov 20, 2004)

Yes, because there is no way in hell of that actually happening... The A was sexy and sweet, just not as outstanding as the D......


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 20, 2004)

Just look at the profiles...theres no contest, D wins in every area


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 20, 2004)

The D is magnificant!


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 20, 2004)

Yup! Just look at the sleek lines


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 20, 2004)

I think Lanc is just blind.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 20, 2004)

When u actually look at REAL pics of the 2 aircraft, it becomes clear that the D is much sleeker and better looking than the A....


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 20, 2004)

Apparently, so am I. 

(Blind, that is!)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 20, 2004)

It just true thought the D is much more nicer.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 20, 2004)

That pic of the A doesnt really do it justice, we gotta at least give it a chance...

I much prefer this pic


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## lesofprimus (Nov 20, 2004)

Heres more proof....


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 20, 2004)

It just looks so much better....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 21, 2004)

I agree the D is better. Dont take me wrong I thing the A is great too but overall I think the D is better. It just looks more pleasing to the eye, not that it was built for that reason but it just is. Both the A and Dora were great fighters though.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 21, 2004)

Yup on all accounts....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 22, 2004)

guys when will you accept the A it better looking................


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 22, 2004)

Never because it wasnt...


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## lesofprimus (Nov 22, 2004)

The poll is now at 19 - 14 in favor of the D.. When are U gonna admit the D was better looking?????


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 22, 2004)

He wont, hes Cornish and stubborn...


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## lesofprimus (Nov 22, 2004)

And also blind as a bat.... He must use Sonar to determine if a plane looks good to him...... The A was a great lookin plane... The D was just better.....


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 22, 2004)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 24, 2004)

the A was better looking..............


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 24, 2004)

For gods sake, no it wasnt! LOOK AT THE POLL! THE POLL SAYS OTHERWISE! EVERYONE SAYS OTHERWISE!


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Nov 24, 2004)

What's the margin of error on that poll?  

Seriously.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 24, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> For gods sake, no it wasnt! LOOK AT THE POLL! THE POLL SAYS OTHERWISE! EVERYONE SAYS OTHERWISE!



Not everyone.


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Nov 24, 2004)




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## cheddar cheese (Nov 25, 2004)

Nonskimmer said:


> cheddar cheese said:
> 
> 
> > For gods sake, no it wasnt! LOOK AT THE POLL! THE POLL SAYS OTHERWISE! EVERYONE SAYS OTHERWISE!
> ...



I suffer from extreme schizophrenia, therefore I am everyone


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## GermansRGeniuses (Nov 25, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> Nonskimmer said:
> 
> 
> > cheddar cheese said:
> ...




Well, I say it twice!


THE A LOOKS TOO FAT!!!


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 25, 2004)

Yup


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 25, 2004)

Fat planes need lovin' too!


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 25, 2004)




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## germanace (Nov 25, 2004)

the dora is a far better looking plane 

the fact the poll is 14-23 dora says so


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## GermansRGeniuses (Nov 25, 2004)

Now, lets see what the buggers at Il2skins have to say...

For fun, I included the F/G series in the poll there.



8)


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 26, 2004)

G series?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 26, 2004)

i don't think he's talking about the FW-190 anymore..........


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## GermansRGeniuses (Nov 26, 2004)

Yes I am, there was an Fw-190G series, it was a development of the F, later dropped and turned into future F developments...


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 26, 2004)

Ah...


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## Yeomanz (Nov 26, 2004)

I like the A serise best , the long nose of the 'D' serise doesn't suit it , but the compact nose of the A looks pretty neat 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 26, 2004)

You have shamed yourself.


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## Yeomanz (Nov 26, 2004)

I can't help liking the A more than the ugly D


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 26, 2004)

And I thought you had good tastes cos you like Amy Lee...


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## GermansRGeniuses (Nov 26, 2004)

Ok, here the stats are so:
FW-190A series 39% [ 15 ]
FW-190D series 60% [ 23 ]
Total Votes : 38

At IL2skins the stats are so:
Fw-190A Series? 42% [ 6 ]
Fw-190F/G Series? 7% [ 1 ]
Fw-190D Series? 50% [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 14


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## Yeomanz (Nov 26, 2004)

Ah Amy Lee   .... opps sorry


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 26, 2004)

Dont be, I can understand


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## Yeomanz (Nov 26, 2004)

I have tons of pics of her , 8) u geting that Concert DVD thingy 'Anywhere but here ' I am hopefully (sorry for going for off-topic )


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 26, 2004)

Theres gonna be a dvd? Hell yeah why not...Hey thats given me an idea for something I can get my girfriend for christmas (who might i add looks just like Amy) Is it out before Xmas?


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## Yeomanz (Nov 26, 2004)

November 23rd already out 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 26, 2004)

Oooooooo  *Buys*


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## Yeomanz (Nov 26, 2004)

*buys me a copy as well *


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 26, 2004)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 27, 2004)

you know i wouldn't be suprised if yeomanz is CC's gf after that............


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 27, 2004)




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## Nonskimmer (Nov 27, 2004)




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## cheddar cheese (Nov 27, 2004)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 27, 2004)

am i right??


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## Yeomanz (Nov 27, 2004)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> you know i wouldn't be suprised if yeomanz is CC's gf after that............



Excuse me I'm definately 100% male , you confuseing me with Hs


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 27, 2004)




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## cheddar cheese (Nov 27, 2004)

Easy mistake to make


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## Yeomanz (Nov 27, 2004)

Hope Hs doesn't see this


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 27, 2004)

wel of corse he's gonna look now..............


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## Yeomanz (Nov 27, 2004)

Darn , and he has a habbit of turning up when hes name is mentioned


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 27, 2004)

exactily.............


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## Yeomanz (Nov 27, 2004)

When our squad the HG's is playing Il2 , when were on teamspeak we always end up saying 'Speak of the Devil'


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 27, 2004)




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## Yeomanz (Nov 28, 2004)

I see HS hasn't given you another silly quote to put on your sig


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 28, 2004)

it'll take summit special to beat that one.............


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 28, 2004)

Imma waiting...


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## marseille jr (May 24, 2005)

I voted for the fw-190D. Along with the even more cool ta-152 it is one of the best lookin planes ever built.

The sexiest plane however, was the mig-3


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## cheddar cheese (May 25, 2005)

MiG 3? Sexy? Yes it looked good, but SEXY?


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## plan_D (May 25, 2005)

The MiG-3 is about as sexy as a lice infested ogre from the steppes of Asia.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 25, 2005)

plan_D said:


> The MiG-3 is about as sexy as a lice infested ogre from the steppes of Asia.



D why don't you tell us your real feelings!


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## cheddar cheese (May 26, 2005)

I think the MiG-3 looks great.


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## Erich (May 26, 2005)

back on topic...........

Ta 152 H-1 although the Dora 9 is a clean looking bird


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## cheddar cheese (May 26, 2005)

The whole Fw-190 series looks great. I think the D is sweet as a nut though


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## marseille jr (Jun 10, 2005)

The D is sleeker and has a sharper nose. It's less stubby than an A. But I find a dewoitine D 520 and especially the mig-3 even more appealing.

As for jets, I love the kikka's looks...


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 10, 2005)

RE the D.520, I love the looks of lightweight fighters.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 11, 2005)

I dont see how the D.520 even can be compared to the Fw-190A or D.

The Dora and the Ta-152 rank in my opinion with the P-51, Spitfire, and Me-109's as th most appealing to the eye and best looking.


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## marseille jr (Jun 11, 2005)

my "miss plane 40-45" stays the mig-3

but then, de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandis.

For twin engined fighters I'd go for the mosquito 

For experimantal planes the one the russians had (resembling the p38 and equipped with two ramjets, forgot its name)


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 11, 2005)

The Russians had a plane with 2 ramjets resembling the P-38? Tell me more!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 11, 2005)

I will agree with you on the mosquito she was a marvelous looking 2 engine aircraft.


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## Erich (Jun 11, 2005)

well the A varinat is definately the bomber killer an excellent weapons platform.

overall the Dora has a smoother take, yes a longer engine mount but also compare the wing span of the two versions, The D much better suited to take the higher altitudes and fighter vs fighter although the A-8 and A-9 were excellent in a skilled pilots hands.

the dora just looks fast, The A-8 depicted in the profile looks to kick your ass


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 11, 2005)

I personally think the Dora was the better looking. She just looked more sleaker and refined.


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 12, 2005)

I agree. But both of them look fantastic.


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## marseille jr (Jun 12, 2005)

> The Russians had a plane with 2 ramjets resembling the P-38? Tell me more



I saw it in the documentary 'secret soviet planes of WWII'. It's name was barracuda or something that sounded alike. It looked like the p38 but with a sharp nose and one piston driven engine in the back and a ramjet engines on each side. First the plane would have to gain speed with the regular engine after which the ramjets were used. The plane was never put in production because of the fact that its engines consumed way too much fuel. They also said the russians were for a while the leading experts in rocket technology, but Stalin had most of their rocket scientists executed which ofcourse derailed their impetus...


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 12, 2005)

Wow this sounds pretty damn interesting. Im gonna have look more into this.

The Russians were very capable in rocket technology - take the Bereznak Isayev BI-1 for instance.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 12, 2005)

bet you can't say that..........


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## marseille jr (Jun 12, 2005)

> Bereznak Isayev BI-1



You sure it's spelled correct? My searches on yahoo and google were fruitless.


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## JCS (Jun 12, 2005)

Try spelling it Bereznyakov Isaev, you'll get some results then...


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## Erich (Jun 12, 2005)

Actually the Fw 190A-5/U12 was pretty bitchin looking with plenty of firepower to take on US bombers in the fall of 43 till March of 44 in I./JG 11


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 13, 2005)

Erich said:


> Actually the Fw 190A-5/U12 was pretty bitchin looking with plenty of firepower to take on US bombers in the fall of 43 till March of 44 in I./JG 11



No arguments here, all varients of the Fw-190 were great looking, and very menacing. I know I would not want to have stared down the gun sights with one heading straight at me with its guns blazing.


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## Erich (Jun 13, 2005)

6 2cm weapons and 2 .30's pumping lead at ya from behind. Not encouraging even for a courageous tail gunner. or the reverse for the nose gunner/bombadier.

I./JG 11 attacked usually in the time period I mentioned from the front in staffel strength. straight in-line and slightly in a V formation to the center of a bomber box.............yee haw !


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 13, 2005)

Yeah not very fun, I would suppose.


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## marseille jr (Jun 15, 2005)

I wouldn't want to be caught in that type by p51 or p47 escort fighters though


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 15, 2005)

Was just looking at the Fw-190C and it looks pretty neat! 8)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 15, 2005)

marseille jr said:


> I wouldn't want to be caught in that type by p51 or p47 escort fighters though



Why not. The P-51 was not as good as everyone thinks. It was overrated and late Fw-190A were just as good and a Fw-190D was better. Same for the P-47 even though it was better then the P-51.


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## marseille jr (Jun 15, 2005)

> Why not. The P-51 was not as good as everyone thinks. It was overrated and late Fw-190A were just as good



Yeah, me agree that the stang is a little bit overrated, but let's not drag it through the mire as it was an excellent aircraft all in all that saved many bomber crew's lifes. Btw, I didn't wanna be caught in an A becoz you would be playing the stang's game, namely contending at high altitudes at substantial speeds and finally diving away. Diving with a faster diver endowed with superior nimbleness (except rolling , ok) and 6 0.50's on yer tail isn't exactly what you might call a pleasant experience, especially when they are numerically superior, right? 

The Dora was a lot more suited for this stuff as it dives formidably, but I always read it suffered from rather poor turning radius compared with the stang, at all speeds. It also forsook 2 of the A's cannons. So to say that the dora was so much better than the stang isn't quite right. I think they were generally well matched, with the Dora having the edge.


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## Erich (Jun 15, 2005)

did you know that your pic of one of the D-9's flown by deceased friend Oskar Romm is copyrighted by the familie ?

Stab IV./JG 3 at Prenzlau this is one of two Dora 9's flown by him another shows his adjutants a/c that supposedly he flew but it is doubtful. Oskar scored 8 Soviet kills confirmed. he could out dive, outpace, out climb any Russian craft he encountered with the D variant. It helped of course that you were a kick in the ass pilot too..........


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## marseille jr (Jun 16, 2005)

I didn't

Sorry


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## Erich (Jun 16, 2005)

oh well a bitchin pic it is of a rare bird...........

IV. Stab had 6 Doras and Oskar R. was able to pretty much fill in one of the old Sturm staffels with the Dora. they made mincemeat out of the Soviet fighters they encountered. 2 pilots of the staffel equipped with the bird scored something like 4 Soviet kills apiece before wars end in the D-9


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 16, 2005)

marseille jr said:


> > Why not. The P-51 was not as good as everyone thinks. It was overrated and late Fw-190A were just as good
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I will agree with you at high alltitudes the 51 was better then the 190A and the 51 was a good match for the 190D with the D having the upper hand. Which is why they built the Ta-152.


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## Erich (Jun 16, 2005)

the G-10 and even the 109G-14/AS were better than the Fw 190Dora at high altitude.

G-10's were to protect JG 301 Doras on missions in 1945 until IV./JG 301 with G-10's was wiped out in 3 missions by P-51 escorts


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 16, 2005)

Really that I did not know, cool.


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## marseille jr (Jun 16, 2005)

Was there much difference between the G10 and the K versions?

I always read that K models were actually too powerful for the old airframe.



> I will agree with you at high alltitudes the 51 was better then the 190A and the 51 was a good match for the 190D with the D having the upper hand. Which is why they built the Ta-152.



Yes exactly. 



> IV. Stab had 6 Doras and Oskar R. was able to pretty much fill in one of the old Sturm staffels with the Dora. they made mincemeat out of the Soviet fighters they encountered. 2 pilots of the staffel equipped with the bird scored something like 4 Soviet kills apiece before wars end in the D-9



Yes. Btw, in the wardbird computer game the dora is described as the ultimate escape artist as it outdives any other plane and has the highest top speed. Another tactic there is too climb a while , then level off and accelerate. Planes that can follow the dora in a steep climb have inferior +250 miles/hour acceleration so... Scoring kills with the dora is hard however, as it turns extremely poorly there. So it takes high speed passes and well aimed snapshots (and thus a very good pilot/shooter) to score kills.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 17, 2005)

The G-10 was vertually the same thing and was achieved by converting existing G's. The K-4 was produced in parallel.


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## Erich (Jun 17, 2005)

not all G-10's had the 3cm mk 108 installed through the prop, also the K-4 had the wooden tail on most occassions


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 17, 2005)

G-10s varied in many ways. Some had the larger tail of the K-4 and some had the tail of the G-6 and earlier, and with the armament like you said Erich.

The G-10 was a hogde pog put together and although at the time it came out was the fastest Bf-109 to be produced it was not that successful of a version.


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## Erich (Jun 17, 2005)

have disagree Adler about the success. the a/c was very compitent in the air and the pilots loved it. It was though just short term until the K-4 could come into full on production. The K and G-10 were so close that it is almost impossible to tell the difference in pics. The K-4 as I said had wooden tail surfaces and some even in JG 27 had wodden wing tips.

the G-10 was just an advert by the Luftw. hierarchy to take ages old G-6 frames and adapt them with the newer DB 605D engines when they were in stock and alter them with refined turbocharger, oil cooler, erlau-laube canopies, taller tail(not all the time), exteneded tail wheel(not all the time) and the typical host of Rüst. of the older G-6 version.........

if anything the G-10 was a hot rod as we have all talked about before


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## marseille jr (Jun 18, 2005)

I still have a remark about the G10 and the K4. Their airframes were designed in the mid thirties for engines with something like 650 HP. Again, I always read the airframe wasn't capable to handle the awesome pefomances of the last 109 models without problems.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 19, 2005)

Erich said:


> have disagree Adler about the success. the a/c was very compitent in the air and the pilots loved it. It was though just short term until the K-4 could come into full on production. The K and G-10 were so close that it is almost impossible to tell the difference in pics. The K-4 as I said had wooden tail surfaces and some even in JG 27 had wodden wing tips.
> 
> the G-10 was just an advert by the Luftw. hierarchy to take ages old G-6 frames and adapt them with the newer DB 605D engines when they were in stock and alter them with refined turbocharger, oil cooler, erlau-laube canopies, taller tail(not all the time), exteneded tail wheel(not all the time) and the typical host of Rüst. of the older G-6 version.........
> 
> if anything the G-10 was a hot rod as we have all talked about before



That is pretty much the conclusion that I have come to also.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 19, 2005)

marseille jr said:


> I still have a remark about the G10 and the K4. Their airframes were designed in the mid thirties for engines with something like 650 HP. Again, I always read the airframe wasn't capable to handle the awesome pefomances of the last 109 models without problems.



You are somewhat correct. The later 109s from the G to the K had a loss of maneauverability and the controls would become harder at high speeds.

The aircraft thought no where was an easy aircraft to shoot down and at the hands of a good pilot she was as deadly as anything out there.


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## marseille jr (Jun 19, 2005)

Back to the fw-190 now.
I read this on www.luftwaffe.cz

By 25 September, III./JG 54 had re-equipped with the Fw 190 D-9, becoming the first operational Gruppe of the Luftwaffe to receive the new type. On 28 September “Bazzi” shot down a Spitfire reconnaissance aircraft of the RAF`s 541 Squadron. The first confirmed victory of the Fw 190D-9. On 29 December 1944, III./JG 54 were ordered up against British fighter-bombers in the Osnabrück, Münster and Rheine areas. Weiss led Stab III JG 54 and 11./JG 54 into a large formation of Spitfires from 331 and 501 Squadrons. During the subsequent aerial combat Typhoons from 168 and 438 Squadrons arrived to re-enforce the British fighters. None of Weiss’s Schwarm returned. In the blackest day of JG 54 “Grünherz” history, 17 aircraft were lost and 13 pilots, including Weiss, were killed and two pilots were injured while claiming six RAF fighters. It is assumed that Weiss was shot down in Fw 190 D-9 (W.Nr. 210 060) “Black 10” by F/Sgt Haanes of 331 (Norwegian) Squadron, RAF. 

This isn't too favourable on part of the Dora. It was said to be aggravatingly unmanoeuvrable which seriously limited its dogfighting capabilities and its chances to shoot down opponents. Maybe that's the reason why Tank was in a hurry to complete the Ta-152? Anyway, in the computergame warbirds the Dora is the ultmate escape artist. You can dive with or outdive anything else and in the diving extensions, it has no equal and leaves anything in the dust. Another pôssibility is to climb to bleed the opponent down to sustained climbing speeds ... the planes that can follow or catch it have inferior +250miles/hour acceleration, so you just level out and open the throttle and you're gone. However, shooting down planes is an ordeal. Anyone easily outturns you. It's instant turn is horrible. So you have to resort to high speed passes above at least 3000 feet (to ensure your escape) and be an excellent shooter, or otherwise you can forget it. Does this matches reality? If so, the story on luftwaffe.cz isn't that surprising any more as they seemed to have entangled in a big scale dogfight which essentially rules out most of the Dora's assets and brings its flaws to surface. Amen.

Maybe could be a new thread, the actual performances of the Dora?

Anyway, does anyone have more ample and unbiased information about the Dora's performance in WWII (websites, books)?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 19, 2005)

Obviously I can not confirm anything because I can only ready what other people have said and I have never spoken with an actual Fw-190D pilot but I have never heard of it being unmaneuverable or anything like that. 

From my understanding though she did not turn very well so you would not want to turn fight with her.


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## Erich (Jun 19, 2005)

the story is in EE's edition on III./JG 54 ~ IV./JG 26.

remember flying the Dora the Germans were always outnumbered. I would say for textural first hand accounts are very scant as the Dora in my mind never really proived itslef except on one to one terms on the Ost front. Against the RAF or US escorts it was an impossibility. Sure you can try an online computer game but that is not reality


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## marseille jr (Jun 20, 2005)

> Sure you can try an online computer game but that is not reality



Keep in mind that warbirds is the most realistic game around. All fighters are modeled according to their actual performances. Top speeds, accelerations, rolling speed, armament, durability, tyrn radius, ..... all are implemented according to official performance tabels.

Best planes there are the last version of the p38 (L if my memory serves me well), the spit 9 , the p51 and the ki-84 (with its great butterfly flaps and superb acceleration). The Dora is a fave too coz it can escape from anything else but scoring kills is an ordeal due to its appaling manoeuvrability. The bf109 K4 is the best climber and accelerates with the best but also suffers from mediocre manoeuvrability, locked up controls in a high speed dive, and the 30mm cannon has aggravatingly low muzzle velocity , so your shells drop very fast (but what they hit they destroy) and this means you have to get very close, which is not possible against spits or franks or etc etc. Attacking bombers with it is hazardous as well as one needs to get close to use the 30mm cannon effectively, but by then otto will rip your 109 apart. The A8 has unmatched fire pôwer, its 4 cannons spawning out 44 shells/second, but it turns bad (it rolls very well though) and lacks speed and divespeed to contend succesfully with the late war power houses. It is best suited for bounces, as you only need one hit to destroy your opponent with all that firepower, and for attacking bombers. the G6-R6 is great to attack bombers with all that firepower but gets eaten alive if any escorts are around. The bf110 is worthless against late war planes. The zero and the oscar turn beautifully but lack power and armament and most of all, durabilty.

I guess this is all quite close to reality, no?


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## Erich (Jun 20, 2005)

it doesn't matter there is no alternative to combat experience. Games are popular .......... yes but the veterans that flew those small crates are the ones with the knowledge and the true stats not the testing by test pilots that never flew a combat mission........or a silly game with a plastic joystick


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 20, 2005)

Erich said:


> it doesn't matter there is no alternative to combat experience. Games are popular .......... yes but the veterans that flew those small crates are the ones with the knowledge and the true stats not the testing by test pilots that never flew a combat mission........or a silly game with a plastic joystick





The only thing the "after the fact" testpilot is going to confirm are numbers.


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## Erich (Jun 20, 2005)

and those numbers are relevent in a combat operation eh ?  almost seems senseless comparing P-47/Fw 190A with test bed results. Each pilot from both sides will tell you they have the hot a/c. I know this as fact since I have interviewed many.........


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 20, 2005)

It's funny - I was watching a program on the Korean War. Russian pilots said the Mig-15 was the greatest thing since sliced bread. F-86 pilots said the Sabre was #1. The test pilots came up with some interesting information but after a while you have to consider pilot preferences and prejudices.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 20, 2005)

marseille jr said:


> > Sure you can try an online computer game but that is not reality
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you serious? The the only thing that come remotly close to the real aircraft is a real life Simulator. Not a PC computer game. They are nothing similar.


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## marseille jr (Jun 20, 2005)

The warbirds game is very accurate. It modeled the fighters as close to reality as possibly, using the genuine performance figures. So what u get is quite realistic. Technology has come a long way. It does confirm about everything else of value I read. It would to some extent confirm why the Dora didn't do that splendid in combat. It's great to live in, but if you wanna rack up kills, there are better planes available. And you really need to use it in a certain way (keep it high and fast and if in trouble dive and extendddddd) or else you're dead within 15 minutes after take off.
Even Barkhorn couldn't score a kill with it if my memory serves me well.

But on the other hand the real stuff is ofcourse irreplacable. But there pilots preferences, prejudice, pride, chauvinism and moulding memories are at play as well... My granddad was a pilot in the belgian army from the 50's until the 70's. He told nice stories in which he usually was 'the star'... and his friends re-told them sometimes in just the opposite way...


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 20, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> marseille jr said:
> 
> 
> > > Sure you can try an online computer game but that is not reality
> ...



In actuallity, the only good experience you're going to get from a PC flight sim or game, is a feel of flying the aircraft "by the numbers." In the case of training, using a pc flight sim for instrument training does work....

As a flight instructor I have given instruction to some PC and computer game "aces." While they did have a superior knowledge of aircraft control functions, once they were put 1000' about the ground with actual aircraft moments, smells, temperatures and other external "stimuli," well...they just about Sh*t themselves!  And that's in a puny Cessna 172!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 20, 2005)

marseille jr said:


> The warbirds game is very accurate. It modeled the fighters as close to reality as possibly, using the genuine performance figures. So what u get is quite realistic. Technology has come a long way. It does confirm about everything else of value I read. It would to some extent confirm why the Dora didn't do that splendid in combat. It's great to live in, but if you wanna rack up kills, there are better planes available. And you really need to use it in a certain way (keep it high and fast and if in trouble dive and extendddddd) or else you're dead within 15 minutes after take off.
> Even Barkhorn couldn't score a kill with it if my memory serves me well.
> 
> But on the other hand the real stuff is ofcourse irreplacable. But there pilots preferences, prejudice, pride, chauvinism and moulding memories are at play as well... My granddad was a pilot in the belgian army from the 50's until the 70's. He told nice stories in which he usually was 'the star'... and his friends re-told them sometimes in just the opposite way...



I understand what you are saying but have you ever been behind the controls of an actual aircraft. It will never compare to games even if they are modeled after there true characteristics and performance. There is so much more involved with it such as wind direction and speed, aircraft condition, the skill of the pilot and weather conditions, the temperature. Each aircraft handles differently even from others of the same type. You can never recreate it to the point of being "realistic". It will never compare.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 20, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> marseille jr said:
> 
> 
> > The warbirds game is very accurate. It modeled the fighters as close to reality as possibly, using the genuine performance figures. So what u get is quite realistic. Technology has come a long way. It does confirm about everything else of value I read. It would to some extent confirm why the Dora didn't do that splendid in combat. It's great to live in, but if you wanna rack up kills, there are better planes available. And you really need to use it in a certain way (keep it high and fast and if in trouble dive and extendddddd) or else you're dead within 15 minutes after take off.
> ...



Yep - even full motion sims, although close, cannot compare to the real thing 8)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 20, 2005)

A good full motion sim atleast gives you an idea.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 20, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> A good full motion sim atleast gives you an idea.



Very True!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 20, 2005)

We have the Blackhawk simulator over here in Germany and it is actually really fun. You can do some stupid stuff and then walk away!


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 20, 2005)

Sounds fun!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 20, 2005)

It is I can not to go back.


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 21, 2005)

I went on a Merlin simulator today. My underwear is more technologically advanced


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 21, 2005)

A what simulator?


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 22, 2005)

A Merlin simulator, where you have to try and land a Merlin on a Frigate.


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## mosquitoman (Jun 22, 2005)

Aren't they the new RAF Helicopters?


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## plan_D (Jun 22, 2005)

The RAF have the HC.III Merlin and the Royal Navy have some sort of Merlin too.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 23, 2005)

Ah interesting I have found a helicopter that I did not know about. Cool thanks.


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 23, 2005)

Wow really? They look pretty cool.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 23, 2005)

It looks pretty similar to the new Sikorsky H-92 Superhawk.

Well this needs to get back on topic here.


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 23, 2005)

Fw-190D-9.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 23, 2005)

LOL when talking about looks that is about as far as it can go. People just saying which ones they like better.


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## marseille jr (Jun 24, 2005)

Of course, no game matches reality.
But it gives you ideas and insights.
They perfectly match the stuff I read.
The Dora wasn't the savior of the late third reich and needed an expert pilot to score a few kills.

Saw a documentary about spezialeinheiten - fliegerasse im zweiten weltkrieg yesterday. Nice stuff.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 24, 2005)

That I can agree with. It gives you somewhat of an idea.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 24, 2005)

jsut as a note though, the RN Merlins have a large radar mounted under the nose, just as a note


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 24, 2005)

More then likely they can be removed just like most radars on helicopters and reinstalled when needed.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 25, 2005)

well the one CC posted doesn't because it's an RAF example, the model in question being a HC.3 of 23 Squadron based at RAF Benson i believe, the Royal Navy use the anti-submarine HM Mk.1, and in this picture you can clearly see the large Blue Kestrel radar under the nose........


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 25, 2005)

Also the Navy ones _tend_ to be in Royal Navy colours


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 25, 2005)

Yes that I know. I was making a general statement.


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## Camarogenius (Dec 2, 2005)

I Tried to read all fourteen pages, but I ran out of patience at page six. Both models are gorgeous, but the Dora is the more beautiful, and much cooler as well.
Don't get me wrong, I'd give your right arm to fly either one, But if I had Cubic Dollars, and could buy whatever I wanted, I would have Dora in my Hangar.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 3, 2005)

mmmm, well atleast you made an effort to read all pages, that'll get you in our good books, however picking the dora over the Anton will not


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## lesofprimus (Dec 3, 2005)

Bullshit, dont listen to the Lanc, he's just pissed that sooooo very many of his beloved Lancasters went down in sheets of flame to the Dora....

The Dora is sexier than the Anton, period... Bomber fan opinions mean nothing except jealousy....


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 3, 2005)

I'm an Anton fan too as well as a Lanc lover (the bomber  ), so I guess you can count me in on the jealousy club. 

And here all this time I thought I just had good taste. 
Ah well.


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## Gnomey (Dec 3, 2005)

I like the lanc aswell, although the 'A' looks meaner I still prefer the Dora, although I must say the TA-152 looks great


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## Gnomey (Dec 3, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> I'm an Anton fan too as well as a Lanc lover (the bomber  ), so I guess you can count me in on the jealousy club.
> 
> And here all this time I thought I just had good taste.
> Ah well.


I like the lanc aswell, although the 'A' looks meaner I still prefer the Dora, although I must say the TA-152 looks great


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## Erich (Dec 3, 2005)

well the Anton was the bombewr killer without a doubt, while the Dora did what it could agasint RAF and US escort fighters. Dora still the sleeker craft of the two. and since we are chatting about the Dora I will put in a plug for the chap Eric larger and his Dora book jjust released, volume 1 through the Czech firm JaPo. I am hearing quite positive things about this. Being offered in the states for 61.00 US at Roll models wherever that is.......
am still trying to find out more on II./JG 301's events in the book as I am in touch with Mr. Larger even today. will let everyone know soon..........

ok more discussion on comparisons  ♫


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 4, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> I'm an Anton fan too as well as a Lanc lover (the bomber  ), so I guess you can count me in on the jealousy club.
> 
> And here all this time I thought I just had good taste.
> Ah well.



you do have good taste skimmey, you have the same taste as me!!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 4, 2005)

Dora all the way! Tha Anton looks great but the beautiful Dora looks sleaker and better.


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## book1182 (Dec 4, 2005)

I would have to say the "A" model. It looks mean just sitting still and the shorter nose had to give better visibility.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 4, 2005)

thank you that man, welcome to the relms of good taste.......


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## Gnomey (Dec 4, 2005)

I like them both. Although I prefer the Dora as in my opinion it looks sleaker while the Anton looks meaner. They both look good though...


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 4, 2005)

In terms of sheer beauty and good looks, Dora wins every time...


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## JCS (Dec 4, 2005)

I love the Dora but I still gotta go with the A. Although I'd say the TA152H looks better than both.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 4, 2005)

The Anton deffinatly looks meaner and more deadly but if you are looking for beauty it is the Dora that steals the show.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 4, 2005)

maybe i like mean 

seriously though the A's much better looking than the D i mean the nose on the D's almost as big as dubz's boyfriend's  and that's pretty damn big and ugly


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 4, 2005)

What the hell are you talking about. It is long, not big. The Bf-109s nose was long, not big, the Mustangs nose was long not big. The Fw-190A's nose was big, the P-47s nose was big.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 4, 2005)

long can mean big! and in this case as i'm talking about length, the A's nose is short, and thus is small, the D's is long, thus it is big.........

and ugly too


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## lesofprimus (Dec 4, 2005)

Well, u find the Lanc to be beautiful, so I can understand ur hatred towards a fighter with sexier lines than ur beloved...

Its okay Lanc, we DO feel pity for u....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 4, 2005)

why should you feel pitty, you're the ones in the wrong? 

and no plane ever has had or ever will have sexier lines than the lanc  except maybe the spit


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 4, 2005)

Oh brother, someone is seriously dillusional.


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## Erich (Dec 4, 2005)

ya know the Dora wasn't such a bad groundattack bird either........surprise, surprise. II./JG 300 was performing these in april of 45 agaisnt the Russian bridgeheads and Allied cross-road points


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 4, 2005)

That does not surprise me. The Dora was a great aircraft as it was.


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## plan_D (Dec 4, 2005)

I like mean brutish aircraft more, generally, the Spitfire being a massive exception. So I do prefer the Anton, but I would never call the Dora anything near ugly - as it is a beautiful plane itself.


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## FalkeEins (Dec 5, 2005)

..be sure to check out my 'Dora in profile' article due in the February issue of Scale Aircraft Modelling here in the UK ....rare pics of bombed-up Doras of JG 301, among others..


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 5, 2005)

Sounds interesting.


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## loomaluftwaffe (Dec 25, 2005)

the D model is ONE OF the sweetest looking plane in d sky.

if there were a poll for the nicest plane in d sky i'd say

TA152
or
Spitfire


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 25, 2005)

yeah the spit's one of the best looking planes of all time, but the Anton is still WAAAAAYYYYYY better looking than the Dora


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## Gnomey (Dec 25, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> yeah the spit's one of the best looking planes of all time, but the Anton is still WAAAAAYYYYYY better looking than the Dora


No it isn't. I will agree though that the Anton is good looking but in my opinion the Dora is better (not by much) and is just below the TA-152 which is on par with the Spitfire. And remember Lanc, you like French bombers...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 25, 2005)

yeah but french bombers look great, as does the Anton!


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## Camarogenius (Dec 25, 2005)

Okay, Several points.
I have searched for French Bomber in the photos area, and have found none. 
Due to the multinational component of this board, I will refrain from comment on French Military anything.
Why is this thread still going? It's obvious that the dora is the best looking FW-190 by a margin of about 2-1.
Granted the Anton is a very good looking aircraft, it evolved into the Dora. Since the Dora came after the anton, it means that the Dora is an Improvement over the Anton.
Is the TA-152 still considered a FW-190, or was it a totally different aircraft for some reason that I'm unaware of?
It looks to me Like a Dora based plane, but I don't know everything.
I do However know that the Dora is Better looking than the anton.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 25, 2005)

DORA, DORA, DORA!!!!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 25, 2005)

> Since the Dora came after the anton, it means that the Dora is an Improvement over the Anton.



in this case it is true however this isn't always the case, like the swordfish and albacore.............



> Is the TA-152 still considered a FW-190, or was it a totally different aircraft for some reason that I'm unaware of?



we had this debate a little while back, i considder it a different plane because there are slight differences between the 190D and 152 and simply beacause of the fact it has a different designation, however many considder it the same............



> the Dora is Better looking than the anton



you utter utter fool


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 25, 2005)

Camarogenius said:


> Okay, Several points.
> I have searched for French Bomber in the photos area, and have found none.
> Due to the multinational component of this board, I will refrain from comment on French Military anything.
> Why is this thread still going? It's obvious that the dora is the best looking FW-190 by a margin of about 2-1.
> ...



Searching for just French bombers in the photos is too generic...Need to be more specific with manufacturer, model etc...


The Ta-152 is only named so to honour the designer, Kurt Tank. Its essentially still a -190.


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## Camarogenius (Dec 25, 2005)

Okay, So give me some names of french bombers to look for.
Oh, the jokes I could make about french military.


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## Gnomey (Dec 25, 2005)

Here is a site with some for you...

http://www.airwar.ru/bw2e.html#p7


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 26, 2005)

good lord look at them beauties  

and i think the fact there are slight differences between the -190D and the -152 and the name change does make it a different plane..........


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## lesofprimus (Dec 26, 2005)

Hey fellas, doesnt it make a difference to u that the Ta-152's were already named Fw-190's during the prototype phase??

The first phase of the Focke-Wulf design resulted in the Fw-190Ra-2 and Fw-190Ra-3, based on the Fw-190D with the Jumo 213 engine.... The second phase design was assigned the designation Fw-190Ra-4D....

THEN they decided out of respect for Dr. Tank to rename them the Ta-152B and H, and the Fw-190Ra-4D renamed Ta-153....

The Ta-152 series was and is a developement of the Fw-190D.... Period....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 26, 2005)

Yeap you nailed it Les.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 26, 2005)

i still considder it a different plane


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 26, 2005)

I tend to also, however Les is correct in that it was a development of the Fw-190D. Late Fw-190D's even had there designation changed to Ta-152.


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## lesofprimus (Dec 26, 2005)

Yup, any other opinion is really just mis-informed or just stubborn, sorry Lanc...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 26, 2005)

that's quite alright, i'm content just knowing i'm right and everyone else in the world's wrong


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 26, 2005)

Just keep doing what ever helps you sleep at night okay.


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## Gnomey (Dec 26, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Just keep doing what ever helps you sleep at night okay.


 The stubborn Englishmans way . I agree Les that the TA-152 is a developed from the Dora (backed up by Alders point).


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 26, 2005)

Correct-a-mundo les...


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## Erich (Dec 26, 2005)

ah but it is the Anton with the most interesting paint jobs........


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 26, 2005)

I've always thought the Dora could have some pretty interesting ones...


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## Erich (Dec 26, 2005)

could be didn't for some obvious reasons, the prime one is low light camo because of the overwhelmingness of the Allied fighter presence.


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## WEISNER (Dec 26, 2005)

I agree with E~ on this, the A series had some very wild paint jobs..take a look at Hermann Graf's wild looking A-5/U7 W.Nr 2594. paint makes it hard to sneak up on someone but sure is colorful....I have never seen a Dora or TA painted like this..
Kevin


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## Erich (Dec 26, 2005)

Besides the blue-black cowlings of IV.Sturm/JG 3 from may till July 44's end I./JG 1 was probably the most prolific. white cowlings and spinner, black and white stripes on the cowling, black/white checks, black/yellow checks, black/red checks.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 26, 2005)

Agreed there were some really nice paint jobs on the Antons.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 27, 2005)

so now we're all agreed the anton's the best looking


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 27, 2005)

No. 

Was it the Doras from JV. 44 ? That had the Red and White stripes on the underside? Thats crazy...


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## Erich (Dec 27, 2005)

CC yes you are correct, and they are the most colourful of all the Doras painted, the standard was a Dora with the under engine cowling ID marking of yellow and a possiblity of a yellow rudder showing up for a staffelkapitan in JG 26. II./JG 301 Doras of course had the colourful fuselage band of yellow/red but that isa bout as much colour as you are going to find amongst the greys/violets and associated shades of late war greens.........


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 27, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> so now we're all agreed the anton's the best looking


_I_ agree with you, lancky. 
Ignore these heathens.


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## lesofprimus (Dec 27, 2005)

Heres a shot of that sexy Dora CC is talking about....


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## Gnomey (Dec 27, 2005)

That is a nice paint scheme that makes the Dora look even better. Although I will admit the Anton still had better paint schemes overall.


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## lesofprimus (Dec 27, 2005)

I dont think u'll find anyone to argue that point gnomey...


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## Erich (Dec 27, 2005)

Since I am feeling like a two foot tall dwarf right now, did I mention that Jerry Crandall has rdone his Doras of the Galland Circus book ?, and that it will be part of his mammoth single volume on the Dora with many first person accts......... $ 85.00 is a bit steep but seems to be the going rate for their books right now, but worth it


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 28, 2005)

Those are very attractive Doras up there. And no Lanc the Dora is better looking.

Going to have to check out that book.


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## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2005)

Erich, is that the Green Hearts book ur talking about???


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## Erich (Dec 28, 2005)

Les no not really although he is taking some first person accts from JG 54 and Jg 26 vets possibly from that book to supplant the ones from JG 301, JV 44, JG 6, etc........the book is going to be a monster with many profiles and unknown pics

sad but I already own the JV 44 booklet and of course the big JG 54/JG 26 book he did several years ago and with the 7 or so signatures, got to know one of the pilots that signed the book, sadly he passed on. I paid a whomping 175.00 for the Dora-Grün Herz but it was worth it to me as I had the one pilot do some signing of pages and photos when I picked the book up from Jerry/Judy and the German vet in California when it was first published.

the "new" book will also have some very unique fotos and signed by 9 ? personalities, one is the former Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 301 Cescotti who was a bomber recon pilot originally

E


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## Erich (Dec 28, 2005)

gents obviously the Dora 9 nose isn;t as massive as the Anton and therefore could not take the punishement like the A version, though the Doras were really not ordered to attack US bomber formations as they mixed it up too often with RAF and RCAF Spits and US Mustangs.

a member of II./JG 301 stands by his mount in 1945


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## Der Mensch (Jan 10, 2006)

In my opinion the A wins. To Take it further see my Avatar...


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 10, 2006)

An avatar that you need to edit, by the way. Man, that sucker's too huge. Just use the thing in your sig instead.


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## lesofprimus (Jan 10, 2006)

Agreed NS.....

And the Dora is much better looking than the Anton...


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## Gnomey (Jan 10, 2006)

lesofprimus said:


> Agreed NS.....
> 
> And the Dora is much better looking than the Anton...


Agreed Les, the Dora is much better looking than the Anton...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 11, 2006)

The Dora was just sexy!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 11, 2006)

i still think the A's better looking, and the A's doing better in the poll than i thought it would.......


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 11, 2006)

Its still losing though.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 12, 2006)

And second place is the first loser!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 12, 2006)

obviously your schools aren't as politically correct as ours, at our sports days everyone's a winner


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 12, 2006)

What is another name for your Sports Day the Special Olympics?


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## Gnomey (Jan 12, 2006)

Seems appropriate. Although the argument that the Anton is better looking than the Dora has already been settled in the Dora's favour.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 12, 2006)

Yeap the Dora wins.


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## The Jug Rules! (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm late in the thread but...

D-model hands down. They looked, and performed better than some of the A series aircraft.


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## Gnomey (Jan 21, 2006)

Surely you mean all of the Antons?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 22, 2006)

Yeap deffinatly all the Antons in my opinion. The A's were great aircraft also and competitive right up to the end but the Dora took it to another level.


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## Gnomey (Jan 22, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Yeap deffinatly all the Antons in my opinion. The A's were great aircraft also and competitive right up to the end but the Dora took it to another level.


Agreed.


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