# USA Lend-Lease f4U Corsair to Russia?



## Yaldy (Jan 11, 2006)

Does anyone know anything about the US giving Russia any F4U Corsairs during World War 2?

The reason I ask - A person claimed to have met a Hero of the Soviet Union who flew a Corsair with 55 kills.

I was skeptical and said, "I"m not sure about this..."

Any help, knowledge, or comments are appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


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## Lunatic (Jan 12, 2006)

I do not believe any navy types (fighters or bombers) were lend-leased to the USSR.

However, it is possible that they may have picked up some post-war Corsairs from a US ally such as China or Cuba? I'd be suprised however if any were flown in combat.

=S=

Lunatic


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 12, 2006)

I too have never heard of Corsairs being lend leased to Russia.


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## R Leonard (Jan 12, 2006)

Nope, sorry, didn't happen. No lend lease of carrier aircraft to the Soviet Union.

Rich


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 12, 2006)

The planes that were supplied to them I believe were and feel free to add what I did not put:

DC-3
P-63
P-39
P-40


I know there are more types, I just can not recall them off the top of my head at the moment.

Total lend lease to the Soviet Union in WW2 by the US:

Aircraft.............................14,795
Tanks.................................7,056
Jeeps................................51,503
Trucks..............................375,883
Motorcycles..........................35,170
Tractors..............................8,071
Guns..................................8,218
Machine guns........................131,633
Explosives..........................345,735 tons
Building equipment valued.......$10,910,000
Railroad freight cars................11,155
Locomotives...........................1,981
Cargo ships..............................90
Submarine hunters.......................105
Torpedo boats...........................197
Ship engines..........................7,784
Food supplies.....................4,478,000 tons
Machines and equipment.......$1,078,965,000
Noniron metals......................802,000 tons
Petroleum products................2,670,000 tons
Chemicals...........................842,000 tons
Cotton..........................106,893,000 tons
Leather..............................49,860 tons
Tires.............................3,786,000
Army boots.......................15,417,000 pairs

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## Gnomey (Jan 12, 2006)

The British Lend/Lease some Hurricanes and Spitfires along I think with some Blenhiems not sure about them though.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 12, 2006)

Yeah I was just trying to figure out the US aircraft that they were given. I know it was more than the types that I posted.


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## wmaxt (Jan 12, 2006)

I belive they got some B-25s. It also wouldn't suprise me if they got a few Corsairs though I would be very suprised if there were enough to fly in combat. Over the years I've seen pictures of most WWII types in Russian colors though many were 1s or 2s from crashed/captured aircraft.

wmaxt

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## Brunner (Jan 12, 2006)

There were also A20 Havocs


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## Lunatic (Jan 13, 2006)

I believe some P-47's were sent too.


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## Brunner (Jan 13, 2006)

yep 8)


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## R Leonard (Jan 13, 2006)

A-20 - 2908
B-25 – 862
P-39 - 4719
P-40 - 2397
P-47 – 195
PBY/PBN - 54
Hurricane - 2952
Spitfire - 1331


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## KraziKanuK (Jan 13, 2006)

R Leonard said:


> A-20 - 2908
> B-25 – 862
> P-39 - 4719
> P-40 - 2397
> ...



+ P-63s and ~10 Mustangs from British stock


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## hartmann (Jan 13, 2006)

If I remember well  , there were some bristol Albemarle plus a Mosquito to training purposes.
Regards


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## CurzonDax (Jan 14, 2006)

The reason I ask - A person claimed to have met a Hero of the Soviet Union who flew a Corsair with 55 kills.

[/quote]

What was the name of this gallant man that heroically defended Rodina. My point is that strange things happened in WWII. If you can get the name of the pilot there are a lot of databases that have the aces names with the type of aircraft they flew. But I agree with the others, no Corsairs to the USSR during lend lease.

:{)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 14, 2006)

I dont recall Corsiars going to Russia, maybe some that were lost in Korea went to the Russians from the N. Koreans.


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## Yaldy (Jan 16, 2006)

I'll work on getting the name of the Hero of the Soviet Union. Thanks to everyone for their responses.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 16, 2006)

Cool would be interesting to see.


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## mosquitoman (Jan 16, 2006)

One Mossie went to Russia, that I do know


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## Wildcat (Jan 16, 2006)

The only Corsiars I recall going to Russia were the ones that bombed the sh*t out of Steiner's men in "The Cross OF Iron" !!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 17, 2006)

LOL


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## hogzed (Feb 18, 2007)

I'm pretty sure that all the P-47s went to Russian Naval Aviation-Fleet defense in the Black sea Fleet . The B-25s were modified ( Turret Location) in Rodina. What about the 3 B-29s that were interred ? Anyone know whether the PR Mk IV spits that they got were based on the Mk I or the Mk V?


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## Jabberwocky (Feb 19, 2007)

Yaldy said:


> Does anyone know anything about the US giving Russia any F4U Corsairs during World War 2?
> 
> The reason I ask - A person claimed to have met a Hero of the Soviet Union who flew a Corsair with 55 kills.
> 
> ...



Top Soviet WW2 aces (Credited kills):

Ivan Nikitovich Kozhedub (64 inc 2 P-51's)
Alexandre Ivanovich Pokryshkin (59)
Nikolai Dimitrievich Gulayev (57)
Grigori Andreevich Rechkalov (56)
Kirill Alexeevich Yevstigneyev (53)
Arsenii Vasilyevich Vorozheykin (52)
Dmitri Borisovich Glinka (50)

So, your unnamed ace would slot in between Gulayeva and Rechkalov.


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## renrich (Feb 19, 2007)

My reference which lists all the Corsairs built and to whom they were delivered shows none to the Soviet Union.


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## Glider (Feb 19, 2007)

Re the three B29's that the Russians aquired. 

The first was B-29-5-BW Serial No 42-6256 the 52nd off the production line. Was hit by AA guns over Anshan that knocked out No 3 engine and damaged no 4 and landed on the 29th July at Tavrichanka. The captain was Capt Jarrell.

The second was B-29-15-BW Serial No 42-6365 the 'General H H Arnold Special' captained by Capt Price. After bombing Omura had ran low on fuel due to not receiving a recall message due to strong headwinds that hadn't been forcast. He landed at Vladivostok on 11th November

The third was also a B-29-15-BW Serial No 42-6358 the 'Ding How' captained by Lt Mickish. This was hit over Omura by fighters and he also landed at Vladivostok on 21st November.
As an aside this mission involved 109 bombers, one crashed on take off and another eight failed to make it home mostly due to damage from fighters who reacted strongly according to reports. By no means did the USA have it all their own way in these early missions.

The Russians had always planned to 'aquire' B29's as soon as they were deployed in theatre. The Russian airbases were offerred as a safe landing ground to the USA as allies, but the Russians always planned to keep any planes that landed. The excuse to be used and was used, was that Russia wasn't at war with Japan and as a neutral had to impound millitary equipment that could be used against another country. 
You have to admit they would have made great lawyers.

Hope this is of interest

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## Aggie08 (Feb 19, 2007)

What about the 3 B-29s that were interred ?

Those never saw action, Tupolev was too busy reverse-engineering them.

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## JoeB (Feb 20, 2007)

"Never" is a risky word, but I'll risk it for Soviet Lend Lease Corsairs: there weren't any.

Corsairs captured in Korea would be a close second, highly unlikely. The Soviets did restore at least one crashed F-86 to flying condition, but never heard of any Corsairs and hard to see why by that point they would have bothered restoring crashed Corsairs. None were for example left behind nicely intact on overrun airfields.

A remotely possible twist on the story might be Soviet aces from WWII who *claimed* Corsairs in Korea. One self described low scoring Soviet ace from WWII did that (the loss is not reflected in US records though, nor is he listed as WWII ace in references I have). A middling Soviet WWII ace Nikolai Stroikov (14 individial+21 shared), participated in the first combat between the MiG's and the USN, where there were Corsairs present but he didn't claim one AFAIK. Actually Soviet MiG's didn't down any Corsairs, the three lost in air combat were to non-Soviet MiG's. Relax the story another degree to claimed other US prop types and there's a few more....

Joe


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## HealzDevo (Apr 1, 2007)

Okay, would be interesting to find out the truth. They might have been sent before the USN worked out how to land them properly on carriers to get rid of some of the mistakes... It wasn't until 1944 that they became standard carrier aircraft. Therefore it is possible that prior to this some could have been given to Russia...


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## R Leonard (Apr 2, 2007)

No, doesn't matter when carrier use started. There were no F4Us provided to the USSR though lend lease, period, none. If you take the time to look things up rather than guess at "would have's" and "could have's" you can find the information, even on the internet. Idle speculation is great, but in the face of the facts it is an exercise in futility. You can check USN sources, you can check RN sources, you can check Chance-Vought sources, you can even check the lend lease list . . . and, yes, there is such a list. No F4Us to the USSR.

Rich

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## Henry-63 (Dec 9, 2021)

Yaldy said:


> Quelqu'un sait-il que les États-Unis ont donné à la Russie des corsaires F4U pendant la Seconde Guerre mondiale ?
> 
> La raison pour laquelle je demande - Une personne a prétendu avoir rencontré un héros de l'Union soviétique qui a piloté un Corsair avec 55 victoires.
> 
> ...


Un fait peu connu est que, en vertu de la loi de prêt-bail, un petit nombre d'avions de combat F4U-1A/D "Corsair" a également été livré à l'Union soviétique. La politique de prêt-bail, intitulée « Acte visant à promouvoir la défense des États-Unis », était un programme en vertu des États-Unis fournissaient la France libre, le Royaume-Uni, la République de Chine, et plus tard l'Union soviétique et d'autres pays alliés. nations avec la nourriture, du pétrole et du matériel entre 1941 et août 1945. Cela entre les navires de guerre et des avions de guerre, ainsi que d'autres armes. En général, l'aide était gratuite, bien que certains matériels (comme les navires) étaient rendus après la guerre. En retour, les États-Unis ont obtenu des baux sur des bases militaires et navales en territoire allié pendant la guerre. Le Canada a utilisé un programme similaire plus petit sous un nom différent. Seuls les marquages nationaux et les codes tactiques ont été rapidement recouverts de la peinture à portée de main, et des marquages Red Star importants ont été appliqués dans des positions standard. Plus tard, lors des révisions d'entretien de routine, certaines machines ont reçu des schémas de peinture individuels. Plusieurs machines pour le rôle d'attaque au sol ont également été équipées de manilles soviétiques et de rails de lancement pour les missiles non guidés indigènes comme le RS-82 ou le RS-132.
Une opération notable à laquelle les F4U soviétiques ont pris part à la libération du sud de Sakhaline en août-septembre 1945. Pendant la guerre contre le Japon, la flotte de l'océan Pacifique a débarqué avec succès un certain nombre de corps de débarquement opérationnelles et tactiques, principalement en coopération étroite avec l'armée soviétique. Unités de l'armée. Après avoir répudié le pacte de neutralité soviéto-japonais, l'Union soviétique a envahi le sud de Sakhaline, l'attaque soviétique a commencé le 11 août 1945, quelques jours avant la capitulation du Japon. Le 56e corps de fusiliers soviétique, qui fait partie de la 16e armée, composé de la 79e division de fusiliers, de la 2e brigade de fusiliers, de la 5e brigade de fusiliers et de la 214e brigade blindée, a attaqué la 88e division d' infanterie japonaise.
Bien que l'Armée rouge soviétique soit trois fois plus nombreuse que les Japonais, elle n'avança que lentement en raison de la forte résistance japonaise. Ce n'est que lorsque la 113e brigade de fusiliers et le 365e bataillon de fusiliers d'infanterie navale indépendante de Sovetskaya Gavan ont débarqué à Tōro, un village côtier de l'ouest de Karafuto, le 16 août, que les Soviétiques ont brisé la ligne de défense japonaise. La résistance japonaise s'est affaiblie après cet atterrissage. Les combats réels se sont poursuivis jusqu'au 21 août. Du 22 au 23 août, la plupart des unités japonaises restantes ont accepté un cessez-le-feu. Les Soviétiques achevèrent la conquête de Karafuto le 25 août 1945 en occupant la capitale de Toyohara.
D'autres opérations avec la participation soviétique F4U étaient la libération des îles Kouriles et de plusieurs ports le long de la côte orientale de la Corée, aboutissant finalement à Port-Artur (Lüshunkou) sur la côte de la mer Jaune. Le rond-point 150 F4U-1A/D était exploité par l'armée de l'air de la flotte soviétique du Pacifique, et après la fin des hostilités, presque tous les avions utilisés par la guerre ont été mis au point.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 9, 2021)

Henry-63 said:


> A little-known fact is that, under the loan-lease law, a small number of F4U-1A / D "Corsair" fighter jets were also delivered to the Soviet Union. The loan-lease policy, titled "An Act to Promote the Defense of the United States," was a program under the United States provided Free France, the United Kingdom, the Republic of China, and later the Soviet Union and other allied countries. nations with food, oil and equipment between 1941 and August 1945. This between warships and warplanes, as well as other weapons. In general, aid was free, although some materials (such as ships) were returned after the war. In return, the United States obtained leases on military and naval bases in Allied territory during the war. Canada used a similar, smaller program under a different name. Only national markings and tactical codes were quickly covered with the paint on hand, and significant Red Star markings were applied in standard positions. Later, during routine maintenance overhauls, some machines were given individual paint schemes. Several machines for the ground attack role were also fitted with Soviet shackles and launch rails for native unguided missiles like the RS-82 or RS-132. and prominent Red Star markings have been applied in standard positions. Later, during routine maintenance overhauls, some machines were given individual paint schemes. Several machines for the ground attack role were also fitted with Soviet shackles and launch rails for native unguided missiles like the RS-82 or RS-132. and prominent Red Star markings have been applied in standard positions. Later, during routine maintenance overhauls, some machines were given individual paint schemes. Several machines for the ground attack role were also fitted with Soviet shackles and launch rails for native unguided missiles like the RS-82 or RS-132.
> A notable operation in which the Soviet F4U took part in the liberation of southern Sakhalin in August-September 1945. During the war against Japan, the Pacific Ocean Fleet successfully landed a number of operational landing corps and tactics, mainly in close cooperation with the Soviet army. Army units. After repudiating the Soviet-Japanese neutrality pact, the Soviet Union invaded southern Sakhalin, the Soviet attack began on August 11, 1945, a few days before Japan's surrender. The 56th Soviet Rifle Corps, part of the 16th Army, consisting of the 79th Rifle Division, 2nd Rifle Brigade, 5th Rifle Brigade, and 214th Armored Brigade, attacked the 88th Armored Division. Japanese infantry.
> Although the Soviet Red Army was three times the size of the Japanese, it only advanced slowly due to strong Japanese resistance. It was not until the 113th Rifle Brigade and the 365th Independent Naval Infantry Rifle Battalion from Sovetskaya Gavan landed in Tōro, a coastal village west of Karafuto, on August 16, that the Soviets broke the Japanese defense line. Japanese resistance weakened after this landing. The actual fighting continued until August 21. From August 22 to 23, most of the remaining Japanese units agreed to a ceasefire. The Soviets completed the conquest of Karafuto on August 25, 1945 by occupying the capital of Toyohara.
> Other operations with Soviet F4U participation were the liberation of the Kuril Islands and several ports along Korea's eastern coast, ultimately culminating in Port-Artur (Lüshunkou) on the Yellow Sea coast. The 150 F4U-1A / D roundabout was operated by the Air Force of the Soviet Pacific Fleet, and after the end of hostilities, almost all aircraft used in the war were developed.


Although this thread is 14 years old, many of the original posters are still here. With that said, great gamer story! I also heard that South Korea was given surplus observation balloons left over from the US Civil War. North Korean PO-2s would overfly these balloons and try to drop frozen Kimchi bombs on them.

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## CATCH 22 (Dec 10, 2021)

> Henry-63 said:
> Le Canada a utilisé un programme similaire plus petit sous un nom différent.
> Canada used a similar, smaller program under a different name.


I'm very curious to find out what was the name of the "Canadian similar smaller program" .
"Eager beaver" maybe?

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## GrauGeist (Dec 10, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Although this thread is 14 years old, many of the original posters are still here. With that said, great gamer story! I also heard that South Korea was given surplus observation balloons left over from the US Civil War. North Korean PO-2s would overfly these balloons and try to drop frozen Kimchi bombs on them.


Think those may have been called "binjo" bombs

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## R Leonard (Dec 10, 2021)

Gamer story, indeed. No F4Us in Soviet service, period, full stop. 205 or so PBNs or PBYs, sure, but no F4Us

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## Henry-63 (Dec 10, 2021)

CATCH 22 said:


> Je suis très curieuse de savoir quel était le nom du « programme canadien similaire plus petit » :rouler des yeux:.
> « Castor avide » peut-être ?


Le prêt-bail est une loi adoptée par le Congrès des États-Unis, le 11 mars 1941, qui prévoit la livraison du matériel de guerre américain à l'Angleterre et à ses alliés à charge de paiement théoriquement différé. La participation du Canada dans la DEUXIÈME GUERRE MONDIALE entraîne une grave détérioration de sa BALANCE DES PAIEMENTS vis-à-vis des États-Unis, et la _Loi du prêt-bail_ menace de détourner toutes les commandes de guerres britanniques du Canada vers les États- Unis.
Pour éviter une crise, le premier ministre Mackenzie King et le président FD Roosevelt conviennent, le 20 avril, dans la Déclaration de Hyde Park (du nom de la résidence présidentielle où se tient la rencontre), de l'achats par les États-Unis de matériel de guerre au Canada. _La Loi du prêt-bail_ inclut les pièces de fabrication américaine du matériel de guerre produit au Canada pour l'Angleterre. Cet arrangement allège le déficit commercial du Canada et lui permet de mieux répondre aux commandes de la Grande-Bretagne, tout en garantissant le financement. Le prêt-bail, qui prend fin en août 1945, aide à l'effort de guerre de l'Angleterre, de l'URSS et des autres puissances alliées. Le Canada n'en bénéficie qu'indirectement.


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## Wurger (Dec 10, 2021)

H
 Henry-63
I would like to remind that the English language is the obligatory one to use for the forum. Using of translators isn't too bad idea but not all of users here may use them as a matter of course.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 10, 2021)

Henry-63 said:


> Le prêt-bail est une loi adoptée par le Congrès des États-Unis, le 11 mars 1941, qui prévoit la livraison du matériel de guerre américain à l'Angleterre et à ses alliés à charge de paiement théoriquement différé. La participation du Canada dans la DEUXIÈME GUERRE MONDIALE entraîne une grave détérioration de sa BALANCE DES PAIEMENTS vis-à-vis des États-Unis, et la _Loi du prêt-bail_ menace de détourner toutes les commandes de guerres britanniques du Canada vers les États- Unis.
> Pour éviter une crise, le premier ministre Mackenzie King et le président FD Roosevelt conviennent, le 20 avril, dans la Déclaration de Hyde Park (du nom de la résidence présidentielle où se tient la rencontre), de l'achats par les États-Unis de matériel de guerre au Canada. _La Loi du prêt-bail_ inclut les pièces de fabrication américaine du matériel de guerre produit au Canada pour l'Angleterre. Cet arrangement allège le déficit commercial du Canada et lui permet de mieux répondre aux commandes de la Grande-Bretagne, tout en garantissant le financement. Le prêt-bail, qui prend fin en août 1945, aide à l'effort de guerre de l'Angleterre, de l'URSS et des autres puissances alliées. Le Canada n'en bénéficie qu'indirectement.


And what does this have to do with this fake story???


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## Thumpalumpacus (Dec 10, 2021)

I've never in my readings come across the Soviets flying Corsairs in WWII combat. I bet they would've liked them, though. Optimized for lower altitudes, good air-to-air firepower, and capable of carrying heavy loads with a single engine.

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## GrauGeist (Dec 10, 2021)

The Soviets were never given any U.S. made Naval aircraft and the most advanced U.S. land-based fighter they received, was a limited number of P-47s, which they didn't really use in front-line operations.

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## Wurger (Dec 10, 2021)

Just too much time spent on reading the WarThunder and DeviantArt sites.









WT Live // Camouflage by PROx


#warthunder #live_wt #workshop Chance-Vought F4U-1 Corsair \




live.warthunder.com













Lend Lease F4U-1A 'Korsarski' by Sport16ing on DeviantArt







www.deviantart.com

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## CATCH 22 (Dec 10, 2021)

Henry-63 said:


> Le prêt-bail est une loi adoptée par le Congrès des États-Unis, le 11 mars 1941, qui prévoit la livraison du matériel de guerre américain à l'Angleterre et à ses alliés à charge de paiement théoriquement différé. La participation du Canada dans la DEUXIÈME GUERRE MONDIALE entraîne une grave détérioration de sa BALANCE DES PAIEMENTS vis-à-vis des États-Unis, et la _Loi du prêt-bail_ menace de détourner toutes les commandes de guerres britanniques du Canada vers les États- Unis.
> Pour éviter une crise, le premier ministre Mackenzie King et le président FD Roosevelt conviennent, le 20 avril, dans la Déclaration de Hyde Park (du nom de la résidence présidentielle où se tient la rencontre), de l'achats par les États-Unis de matériel de guerre au Canada. _La Loi du prêt-bail_ inclut les pièces de fabrication américaine du matériel de guerre produit au Canada pour l'Angleterre. Cet arrangement allège le déficit commercial du Canada et lui permet de mieux répondre aux commandes de la Grande-Bretagne, tout en garantissant le financement. Le prêt-bail, qui prend fin en août 1945, aide à l'effort de guerre de l'Angleterre, de l'URSS et des autres puissances alliées. Le Canada n'en bénéficie qu'indirectement.


There is always some misinformation about the exact idea of the Hyde Park Declaration. Who's giving whom defense articles and how is the "lend-lease" involved. To express it with less words I'll quote the original text:
_"In so far as Canadian defense purchases in the United States consist of component parts to be used in equipment and munitions which Canada is producing for Great Britain, it was also agreed that Great Britain will obtain these parts under the lease-lend (sic!) act and forward them to Canada for inclusion in the finished articles."_
Now this is completely different from your first information that Canada had a "_similar smaller program under a different name_", isn't it?
Cheers!
P.S. Of course the "eager beaver" was a joke but it got lost in translation...

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## CATCH 22 (Dec 10, 2021)

Wurger said:


> Just too much time spent on reading the WarThunder and DeviantArt sites.


The modeler of the "Soviet Corsair" added the following note to his model: (check the full build here).
*Nothing you see here is real, even though the conversion or the presented background story might be based upon historical facts. BEWARE!*
I hope that's enough for Henry-63, n'est-ce pas?
Cheers!

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## Wurger (Dec 10, 2021)

CATCH 22 said:


> The original modeler of the "Soviet Corsair" is the famous whifer Dizzyfugu. He always adds the following note to his models:
> *Nothing you see here is real, even though the conversion or the presented background story might be based on historical facts. BEWARE!*
> I hope that's enough for Henry-63, n'est-ce pas?
> Cheers!



Yep.. Unfortunately he seems to be well known at the What-if world ... that creates the false image of the History and reality.









Советские «корсары». Истребители-бомбардировщики Chance Vought F4U-1A Corsair авиации Тихоокеанского флота - Альтернативная История


Советские «корсары». Истребители-бомбардировщики Chance Vought F4U-1A Corsair авиации Тихоокеанского флота - Альтернативная История




alternathistory.com

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## R Leonard (Dec 10, 2021)

Henry-63 said:


> Le prêt-bail est une loi adoptée par le Congrès des États-Unis, le 11 mars 1941, qui prévoit la livraison du matériel de guerre américain à l'Angleterre et à ses alliés à charge de paiement théoriquement différé. La participation du Canada dans la DEUXIÈME GUERRE MONDIALE entraîne une grave détérioration de sa BALANCE DES PAIEMENTS vis-à-vis des États-Unis, et la _Loi du prêt-bail_ menace de détourner toutes les commandes de guerres britanniques du Canada vers les États- Unis.
> Pour éviter une crise, le premier ministre Mackenzie King et le président FD Roosevelt conviennent, le 20 avril, dans la Déclaration de Hyde Park (du nom de la résidence présidentielle où se tient la rencontre), de l'achats par les États-Unis de matériel de guerre au Canada. _La Loi du prêt-bail_ inclut les pièces de fabrication américaine du matériel de guerre produit au Canada pour l'Angleterre. Cet arrangement allège le déficit commercial du Canada et lui permet de mieux répondre aux commandes de la Grande-Bretagne, tout en garantissant le financement. Le prêt-bail, qui prend fin en août 1945, aide à l'effort de guerre de l'Angleterre, de l'URSS et des autres puissances alliées. Le Canada n'en bénéficie qu'indirectement.



It would probably surprise you that a lot of us know quite a bit about the Lend-Lease program and what was shipped to whom and when. After all. it has all been spelled out on the web for years for those those who can stir their bones in an effort to find out the real scoop rather that repeat the trash from some artist's web site or "what if" modelers.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 10, 2021)

From what I understand there was a lot of reverse lend lease as well. I heard the Soviet Union supplied the US about 40 LaGG-3s for the defense of the Panama Canal. Although the shipment was made about the time the war ended, the Soviets didn't want the disassembled airframes returned and they sat at a pier in Miami for months. Eventually they were declared surplus and sold to the civilian market. Since all the manuals were in Russian, every airframe was parted out, engines found their way on swamp boats and the wooden fuselages were bought up by farmers who cut the wood fuselages in half and used them for midget orange tree planters. The wings were made into swamp boats and Manatee mating
platforms.

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## SaparotRob (Dec 10, 2021)

Oh man, what waste. Air boats are cool and all that but still, if only few of those had made it to a museum.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 10, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> Oh man, what waste. Air boats are cool and all that but still, if only few of those had made it to a museum.


I believe there was an attempt to acquire one complete airframe (less engine) and place it in the front of a Jewish Delicatessen located in Canarsie.

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## Howard Gibson (Dec 10, 2021)

Yaldy said:


> Does anyone know anything about the US giving Russia any F4U Corsairs during World War 2?
> 
> The reason I ask - A person claimed to have met a Hero of the Soviet Union who flew a Corsair with 55 kills.
> 
> ...


55 kills is a lot for the Soviet Union. The top USSR aces seem to have flown La-5s and Bell P-39s. 

I searched Google for Soviet air aces.

I understand the Soviets received at least one P-47, but this aircraft methodically violated every single rule of Soviet air tactics and strategy.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 10, 2021)

Howard Gibson said:


> 55 kills is a lot for the Soviet Union. The top USSR aces seem to have flown La-5s and Bell P-39s.
> 
> I searched Google for Soviet air aces.
> 
> I understand the Soviets received at least one P-47, but this aircraft methodically violated every single rule of Soviet air tactics and strategy.


55 kill Soviet flying an F4U? Total BS - now my last 2 posts, take them to the bank! 

Now seriously, Soviet P-47s? They received about 200 of them.

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## GrauGeist (Dec 10, 2021)

The Soviets used their P-47s more for city defense in rear areas.

The number received, were three P-47D-10-RE and two hundred P-47D-22-RE/P-47D-27-RE aircraft.

They preferred to use the La-5FN and Yak-9 for intercepting and the IL-2 for ground attack and by 1944, they had the La-7.

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## SaparotRob (Dec 10, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> I believe there was an attempt to acquire one complete airframe (less engine) and place it in the front of a Jewish Delicatessen located in Canarsie.


The one by the Kings Plaza Mall? It's GREAT!

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## Howard Gibson (Dec 11, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> 55 kill Soviet flying an F4U? Total BS - now my last 2 posts, take them to the bank!


They did not have F4Us. I said La-5s and P-39s.


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## GrauGeist (Dec 11, 2021)

Howard Gibson said:


> 55 kills is a lot for the Soviet Union.


Ivan Kozhedub - 64
Grigory Rechkalov - 61
Nicholai Gulaev - 55
Kirill Yevstigneev - 53
Dmitri Glinka - 50
Alexander Pokyrishkin - 45

These are the top Soviet aces out of 131 who score more than 10 kills.

So about that bit of "55 kills is a lot"...

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## Wurger (Dec 11, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> 55 kill Soviet flying an F4U? Total BS - now my last 2 posts, take them to the bank!
> 
> Now seriously, Soviet P-47s? They received about 200 of them.
> View attachment 651200
> ...




As memo serves the P-47s in the second pic aren't of the soviet VVS. These belonged to the 86th FG and took part in a movie titled "Berlin Airlift" as the Russian fighters. The film was made in 1949, IIRC.

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## R Leonard (Dec 11, 2021)

Post war USAF markings on the far right P-47 in the second photo. Long after Lend Lease.

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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 11, 2021)

Wurger said:


> As memo serves the P-47s in the second pic aren't of the soviet VVS. These belonged to the 86th FG and took part in a movie titled "Berlin Airlift" as the Russian fighters. The film was made in 1949, IIRC.


Great catch my friend!

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## Howard Gibson (Dec 11, 2021)

GrauGeist said:


> Ivan Kozhedub - 64
> Grigory Rechkalov - 61
> Nicholai Gulaev - 55
> Kirill Yevstigneev - 53
> ...


I said that 55 kills was a lot for the Soviet Union. I am not saying it did not happen. 

For the record...
Ivan Kozhedub -- 64 -- La-5 mostly
Grigory Rechkalov -- 61 -- Polikarpov I-153 (biplane), P-39
Nicholai Gulayev -- 55 -- MiG-3, Yak-1, P-39
Kirill Yevstigneyev -- 53 -- La-5, La-7
Dmitri Glinka -- 50 -- Yak-1, P-40, P-39
Alexander Pokyrishkin -- 45 -- MiG-3, P-39

I am surprised here by the number of P-39s, and the lack of Yaks, particularly the Yak-3. No P-47s. No F4Us.


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## GTX (Dec 11, 2021)

Purely fictional:

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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 11, 2021)

GTX said:


> Purely fictional:
> 
> View attachment 651258


I was waiting for one of Clave's pieces to show up here!

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## SaparotRob (Dec 11, 2021)

GTX said:


> Purely fictional:
> 
> View attachment 651258


Needs a slogan on the side. Great picture!


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 11, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> Needs a slogan on the side. Great picture!


I vote for an image!

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## SaparotRob (Dec 11, 2021)



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## Husky (Dec 11, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> The planes that were supplied to them I believe were and feel free to add what I did not put:
> 
> DC-3
> P-63
> ...


That's alot


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## R Leonard (Dec 11, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> Needs a slogan on the side. Great picture!


How about "Go Army Beat Navy!"

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## SaparotRob (Dec 11, 2021)

Here we go!!


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 11, 2021)




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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 11, 2021)

Howard Gibson said:


> I said that 55 kills was a lot for the Soviet Union. I am not saying it did not happen.
> 
> For the record...
> Ivan Kozhedub -- 64 -- La-5 mostly
> ...


One of worthy note - Lev Shestaov - 16 in WW2, 39 over Spain. He was killed in an air battle with Hans-Ulrich Rudel, allegedly shot down by Rudel's rear gunner Ernst Gadermann


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## pinehilljoe (Dec 11, 2021)

They would be sent over ADM King’s body

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## GregP (Dec 11, 2021)

Since we are discussing Aces, here's my list, taken from all over, but a lot from the Magnus Family website. Altogether a good website.

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## BiffF15 (Dec 11, 2021)

GregP said:


> Since we are discussing Aces, here's my list, taken from all over, but a lot from the Magnus Family website. Altogether a good website.


Thanks for the share Greg!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 11, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> View attachment 651265



Boo!!!!

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## GrauGeist (Dec 11, 2021)

Yeah, I was for Army and they were doing a good job until I stepped away from the TV and it all went downhill from there


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## XBe02Drvr (Dec 12, 2021)

Go Navy!

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## Geoffrey Sinclair (Dec 12, 2021)

R Leonard said:


> you can even check the lend lease list . . . and, yes, there is such a list. No F4Us to the USSR.


Where would a copy of the list be please, given the reference I have does not detail losses en route by type? The combination of US types shipped to Britain then to the USSR, the on British Account types, the direct US shipments, the ones rejected by the USSR, the theatre transfers and losses en route makes for a challenge to find accurate totals. However no F4U were sent to the USSR.

British shipments to USSR, as of end June 1945. Air 22/310. 1st to 4th protocols.

AircraftsentlostrejectedarrivedAiracobra255​53​202​Tomahawk30​30​Hurricane IIA176​22​154​Hurricane IIB1690​278​1412​Hurricane IIC1130​46​117​967​Spitfire IX201​201​Spitfire IXE985​985​Spitfire HF IXE1​1​Totals4468​399​117​3952​
Also 2,744 P-39, 300 P-40 and 86 P-63 "assignment in USA".

Aircraft in addition to protocol, 

AircraftsentlostrejectedarrivedHurricane IIA41​41​Shipped pre protocolHurricane IIB159​159​Shipped pre protocolTomahawk141​141​Shipped pre protocolTomahawk59​59​from US on UK accountAiracobra10​10​Shipped pre protocol for sparesMustang I4​4​Shipped pre protocol for trialsHurricane IIA1​1​Ex 151 WingHurricane IIB35​35​Ex 151 WingSpitfire VB150​150​Offered in October 1942, handed over at BasraHampden25​25​Handed over in North Russia, October 1942, torpedo bombersSpitfire IV3​3​Handed over in North Russia, October 1942Spitfire IV3​3​Handed over in North Russia, June 1944Hurricane IID60​14​46​Offered in April 1943, shipped to BasraAlbemarle14​14​Flown out of UK by USSR ferry crewsMosquito IV1​1​Flown out of UK by USSR ferry crewsHurricane IIC52​52​Replacements for rejected aircraft, shipped in convoy JW.58, offered in January 1944Hurricane IV30​30​Replacements for rejected aircraft, handed over at Basra, offered in January 1944Lancaster I5​5​Force landed aircraft handed over in September 1944Lancaster III1​1​Force landed aircraft handed over in September 1944Typhoon I1​1​Shipped March 1945 to Middle East, arrived April 1945.Stirling III1​1​Flown to Adaban in February 1945Airacobra1​1​Shipped to Basra in error, believed to have arrived in Russia.Total797​783​

"Roads to Russia" aircraft delivery table

AlsibN RussiaAdabanS atlantictotalP-4048​910​1090​2048​49​49​P-39999​50​2020​3069​1592​30​1622​27​28​55​P-473​4​188​195​P-632312​2312​85​3​88​sub totals5066​1074​3298​0​9438​A-201363​126​550​869​2908​B-25733​5​124​862​B-241​1​C-461​1​C-47707​707​O-5219​19​AT6-C8​20​28​AT6-F54​54​totals7925​1232​3868​993​14018​

"Roads to Russia" Deliveries to the USSR 22 June 1941 20 September 1945

AlsibN RussiaAdabanS atlantictotalDelivered in US8058​1543​4141​1055​14797​Lost in US74​17​91​Lost in Canada/Alaska59​59​Departed N America7925​1543​4124​1038​14630​Lost after departure310​231​43​584​Arrived at destination7925​1232​3911​994​14062​Delivered to USSR at Destination7925​1232​3868​993​14018​Total Losses734​
No breakdown of losses. Also the following are not in "Roads to Russia"

PBN-1137​PBY-6A48​

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## tomo pauk (Dec 12, 2021)

G
 Geoffrey Sinclair
- many thanks for putting the data on such an easy-to-see form.

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## Dimlee (Dec 12, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> From what I understand there was a lot of reverse lend lease as well. I heard the Soviet Union supplied the US about 40 LaGG-3s for the defense of the Panama Canal. Although the shipment was made about the time the war ended, the Soviets didn't want the disassembled airframes returned and they sat at a pier in Miami for months. Eventually they were declared surplus and sold to the civilian market. Since all the manuals were in Russian, every airframe was parted out, engines found their way on swamp boats and the wooden fuselages were bought up by farmers who cut the wood fuselages in half and used them for midget orange tree planters. The wings were made into swamp boats and Manatee mating
> platforms.
> 
> View attachment 651199


Ah, what a waste of quality wood. Just when they started to produce thousands of Mossies in the USA.

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## XBe02Drvr (Dec 12, 2021)

Dimlee said:


> Ah, what a waste of quality wood. Just when they started to produce thousands of Mossies in the USA.


In the USA? I thought they were built in Canada. Last I heard we haven't quite completed the annexation of Canada yet, though we'd love to add their maple syrup production to our domestic totals

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## Howard Gibson (Dec 12, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> From what I understand there was a lot of reverse lend lease as well. I heard the Soviet Union supplied the US about 40 LaGG-3s for the defense of the Panama Canal...


Are you sure about this? I am Googling it and finding nothing. The LaGG-3 was one of the reasons German fighter pilots ran up 150+ kills. The Russians preferred P-39s. I think the Americans would have preferred them too.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 12, 2021)

Howard Gibson said:


> Are you sure about this? I am Googling it and finding nothing. The LaGG-3 was one of the reasons German fighter pilots ran up 150+ kills. The Russians preferred P-39s. I think the Americans would have preferred them too.


If you read into this its a joke and about as ridiculous as the claim as the Soviet Union getting Corsairs!!!

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## SaparotRob (Dec 12, 2021)

Howard Gibson said:


> Are you sure about this? I am Googling it and finding nothing. The LaGG-3 was one of the reasons German fighter pilots ran up 150+ kills. The Russians preferred P-39s. I think the Americans would have preferred them too.


Didn't all air forces prefer P-39s?

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## SaparotRob (Dec 12, 2021)

On my way out.

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## nuuumannn (Dec 12, 2021)

XBe02Drvr said:


> Last I heard we haven't quite completed the annexation of Canada yet, though we'd love to add their maple syrup production to our domestic totals



You'd have better healthcare, that's for sure... ;D


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## Howard Gibson (Dec 12, 2021)

nuuumannn said:


> You'd have better healthcare, that's for sure... ;D


They only get better healthcare if _they_ surrender to _us_.

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## GrauGeist (Dec 12, 2021)

Which part of Canada?

Quebec still thinks it's part of France.

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## XBe02Drvr (Dec 12, 2021)

GrauGeist said:


> Which part of Canada?
> 
> Quebec still thinks it's part of France.


JAMAIS!! Ici on parle Francais, NON PAS Quebecois!

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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 12, 2021)



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## hawkeye2an (Dec 13, 2021)



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