# How would YOU fly?



## Crazy (Jun 9, 2004)

If you had the choice to fly any plane, for any air force, in any squadron, in any theater, during any year of WWII, where/when/what would you fly?


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 9, 2004)

so with any combination? even if theyre made up? if so, i would have flown a P.108 With 617 squadron in the dambusters raid


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## Crazy (Jun 9, 2004)

Well, that's not exactly what I had in mind, but hey


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## Lightning Guy (Jun 9, 2004)

Ok. I know this one. P-38 Lightning (whichever model was in service at the time), PTO, USAAF 5th AF, 475th FG, 432nd (Clover) FS, and I'd stayed there as long as I could. Like I said, I've already done the sketches for what my plane would look like.


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## plan_D (Jun 10, 2004)

Me-262A-1a ~ III Staffel ~ I Gruppe ~ Jagdgeschwader 7. 1945. ETO. 
I don't care if they were getting in trouble by bombing raids, and Mustangs hanging over their bases. I'd want to fly one.


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## Maestro (Jun 11, 2004)

Ahhh... I would like to fly a Spitfire Mk. IX in any RAF squadron parked near the southern coast of England during Operation Overlord, in 1944.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 11, 2004)

piloting a Lancaster B.I Specal dropping grand slams around Europe with 617 during 1945


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## Erich (Jun 11, 2004)

plan_D that should read either 1-3 staffels of I. gruppe or 7-9th staffels of the III./JG 7

personally I will fly a German UFO any day. stealth is always an awesome prospect


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 11, 2004)

my god some of those smilies are pointless..............


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 11, 2004)

yup, funny though


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jun 11, 2004)

plan_D said:


> Me-262A-1a ~ III Staffel ~ I Gruppe ~ Jagdgeschwader 7. 1945. ETO.
> I don't care if they were getting in trouble by bombing raids, and Mustangs hanging over their bases. I'd want to fly one.



I would do the same plane and year, but any Staffel in Jv44.

(Is Jv Jagerband? I saw it somewhere, but it was spelt differently)


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## Erich (Jun 11, 2004)

POINTLESS ? what are you talking about bud ........... ha, ha flying saucer=stealth UFO...........get it ?
_____________________________________________________________

no JV 44 was one oversized staffel in size and it was just JV 44, no staffel no gruppe number. There was a high cover staffel of 5-7 Fw 190D's with underwing and lower fusleage stripes in red and white so German fla would not shoot them down. It was called the Würger Staffel.

Grüß

E ♪


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jun 11, 2004)

Erich said:


> POINTLESS ? what are you talking about bud ........... ha, ha flying saucer=stealth UFO...........get it ?
> _____________________________________________________________
> 
> no JV 44 was one oversized staffel in size and it was just JV 44, no staffel no gruppe number. There was a high cover staffel of 5-7 Fw 190D's with underwing and lower fusleage stripes in red and white so German fla would not shoot them down. It was called the Würger Staffel.
> ...



No, no, I meant what do the initials "Jv" mean. What DO they mean after all?


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## Erich (Jun 11, 2004)

I apoligize as I misunderstood. well at least you know now the makeup of Galland's circus

JV means Jägerverband or fighter formation. Has been called the squadron of experts as well which is a bit funny on one hand. Many of the pilots were Ritterkreuz award winners but also pilots with excellent flying skills were pulled out of units that were already hampered by the RAF and US fighter formations during 1945. for these lucky pilots they were probably saved from destruction as many did not fly the Me 262 at all and just sat around the field waiting for the war to end. They should of stayed where they were to bolster the moral of the new ill-trained pilots who were sitting ducks


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 27, 2004)

I've chaged my mind about what i'd want to fly, i thing i'd rather fly a hurricane intecepting He-111 during the BoB, just keep me away from the 109s.......................


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## Binni (Jun 27, 2004)

Defenetly a Yokosuka D4Y during the marianas turkey shoot


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## ev0 (Jun 27, 2004)

P-47 Thunderbolt during the intercepting missions or a spitfire over the United Kingdom protecting london ^^ . ETO!


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## Lightning Guy (Jun 27, 2004)

I don't think there was too much for the P-47 to intercept.


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## Piaggio108 (Jun 28, 2004)

Fiat AS.14 anywhere.


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## Lightning Guy (Jun 28, 2004)

I've given this some thought and have decided that I would like to be a little more specific in my time frame. I would have definitely wanted to have been with the 475th FG during Nov-Dec. of 1944. The ultimate versions of the P-38 were coming into service and their record was amazing. During that two month period they achieved 169 kills in the air against the loss of 9 P-38s and only 4 pilots.


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## MP-Willow (Jun 28, 2004)

A Yak-3 over Mosscow!
or
A B-24 with the 15th airforce! 485 BG 83 BS


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 28, 2004)

MP, whice plant's that in your pic??


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## plan_D (Jun 28, 2004)

Brilliant sig, MP. Ladies and gentlemen, that's why America came out on top.


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## Lightning Guy (Jun 28, 2004)

I'm going to guess that is the Willow Run plant.


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## Gemhorse (Jun 29, 2004)

Definately flying a Mosquito for me, preferably with 489[NZ]Sqn., or Nightfighting with 85 Sqn., or shooting ships up with the Banff Wing...


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## MP-Willow (Jun 29, 2004)

For you all, LG got it it is Wilow Run  Ford's mile long plant with a big left turn in it so to stay in one county 8) I am glad you all like it, I have a few others and am always looking for photos of production or nose art. I have one of a lady on the line with rivits


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 29, 2004)

you got me interested..........................


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## Dan (Jun 29, 2004)

me well i would be in a p-38 shootin up "franks" over the phillipenes, in a LI-2 Sturmivok bloin up those damned panzer tanks in stalingrad, or in a Spitfire mach VI shootin up fw-190s


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jun 29, 2004)

New theory! B-25G flying at tree-and-mast-height in the south Pacific on ship-attack runs with a 75mm cannon, 8 rockets, 3 1000lb bombs or a torpedo!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 30, 2004)

i know they weren't used out there, but if i was doing a low level raid in ETO i would rahter be in a mossie..........................


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## MP-Willow (Jun 30, 2004)

GermansRGeniunes, Are you shure the B-25G had that cannon? I am pritty shure it is only the H and that experiment was found poorly profitable. The hardnose with 8 or 10 .5 inch guns were much better and you get the co-pilot back. 

Lanc-interested in what?


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## Lightning Guy (Jun 30, 2004)

MP-Willow, the B-25G was the first version of the B-25 to be equipped with a 75mm cannon with 21rpg. Backing this weapon up were 2 .50cals with 400rpg. The later B-25H had the 75mm cannon, plus 4 .50cals in the nose and 4 more bolted on to the fuselage sides, all with 400rpg.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 1, 2004)

> Lanc-interested in what?



what??


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## MP-Willow (Jul 2, 2004)

Opps thanks Lighening. It was still that low 21 rds and low rate of fire that make me feel unesed about that cannon. B)


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## Hot Space (Jul 2, 2004)

A Spitfire XIV, Germany, 1945 8) 

Hot Space


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## plan_D (Jul 3, 2004)

Spitfire Mk. XVIII, Germany, 1945. 

Or, Me-262C-1a (  ), 1945. ( I know, Erich, it only had one combat sortie. ) 

Or, Me-262A-1a ~ Kommando Nowotny ~ 1944 ~ ETO.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 3, 2004)

> Kommando Nowotny ~ 1944 ~ ETO.



the ETO, you don't say.......................


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jul 3, 2004)

Lightning Guy said:


> MP-Willow, the B-25G was the first version of the B-25 to be equipped with a 75mm cannon with 21rpg. Backing this weapon up were 2 .50cals with 400rpg. The later B-25H had the 75mm cannon, plus 4 .50cals in the nose and 4 more bolted on to the fuselage sides, all with 400rpg.



The H is the one I meant, thanks!


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jul 3, 2004)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> > Kommando Nowotny ~ 1944 ~ ETO.
> 
> 
> 
> the ETO, you don't say.......................



Lanc, although Kommando Notwony didn't fly in the Pacific, the Japs had an Me-262 of their own.

The Kikka!

Mainly the same, but the wings were straight.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 3, 2004)

they also had a carbon copy of the Me-163 in the Mitsubishi J8M1 Shusui...........................


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## Gemhorse (Jul 4, 2004)

Whatcha reckon Lanc, a Mk.XVIII Mossie with the Molins cannon and rockets ?...More versatile than a B-25, eh?...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 4, 2004)

but it's proven that that mossie was the second most versatile aircraft of the war, and the Ju88 was the most versatile, not the B-25, so yes, i do think the mossie was more versatile than the B-25.........................


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## MP-Willow (Jul 5, 2004)

But not the 57mm cannon 

A B-25 did very well for its self thanks. So why not be a glider pilot!

A bf 109 over the Battle of France, then I would not get shot down that much


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 5, 2004)

> But not the 57mm cannon



wrong, the Mk.XVIII was armed with a 57mm Molins gun and 4x.303s.................


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## kiwimac (Jul 5, 2004)

FW 190 anywhere, anywhen

Kiwimac


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## kiwimac (Jul 5, 2004)

Reggiane Re 2005, Italy, 1942-3 (il fascisti)


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## MP-Willow (Jul 6, 2004)

Lanc- I was close yes? Do you know of any operations the Mk. XVIII had?

Kiwimac -the Re 2005 was a very promising plane, but it was built in very small numbers and only flew operationaly for a few months but it did fly a little longer in the hands of Germans and Italians in the North.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 6, 2004)

no, but apparently it was one of the better FB varients.....................


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## Lightning Guy (Jul 6, 2004)

There were only two real FB varients, the XVIII and the VI. The XVIII was never massed produced because the VI could carry rockets which were just as effective as the 57mm gun, retain the rear bombay, and the 4 20mm and 4.303s were a much more versatile armament.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 7, 2004)

to be honest i would prefer the 4x20mm and 4x.303, i was just making a point to MP..........................


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## Lightning Guy (Jul 7, 2004)

I would too. In the even of an air-to-air scramble, the FB.VI was much better off than the FB.XVIII.


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## Gemhorse (Jul 8, 2004)

They also had a 37mm Molins in Mk.XVIII's, both were used particuarly for U-boat attacks to hole the submerging conning-towers...Rockets were more for ships...


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## MP-Willow (Jul 8, 2004)

Thanks. Do you think that the Mossie had too many veriants? This is to say it was developed for what seemed to be everything they could think of.


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## Lightning Guy (Jul 8, 2004)

Well, basically, there were 4 specific versions, photo-recon, night-fighter, bomber, and fighter-bomber. There were something like 40 subtypes developed but all of these were designed for one of the 4 roles mentioned above.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 8, 2004)

and think of it this way, would you rather design a whole new plane to do a job that a current plane can do just as well??


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## Gemhorse (Jul 11, 2004)

Yeah, there was I believe, 43 different variants, and this was only superceded by the Ju-88. The Mk.XVIII was a rare version, only 18, including the prototype were built from FB.VI fuselages. Most served with RAF 248 Sqn. Prior to fitting the Molins, they'd actually done a feasibility study [successfully], using the much heavier 3.7 inch [94mm] gun, but the Molins proved effective indeed, it's 7.11 lb shell were tipped with hardened steel and had no trouble entering a U-boat's hull and creating havoc. - They were called the 'TSE-TSE' because they had a bigger bite than normal Mosquitos, worked from Predannack in Cornwall from Oct'43, over the Bay of Biscay, then from Banff in Scotland after helping-out during D-Day landings, carrying-out many successful attacks on German shipping installations in Norway; a truly grunty aircraft...[rare, like all thoroughbreds...]


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## Lightning Guy (Jul 11, 2004)

But evidently not successful enough to justify continued production.


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## MP-Willow (Jul 12, 2004)

Thanks.  It is just a little trippy reading all the different Marks. Different fro the USAAC or USN that it seems would have two or three different aircraft. LIke using the P-40 when the P-47 was much its better. I do not still know why P-40 prduction was so high as the P-47 and P-51 were comming online. Any help there would be great!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 12, 2004)

because the P-40 was in production before the war, the P-47 and P-51 came along half way through...................


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## Lightning Guy (Jul 12, 2004)

And the P-40 was a known quality. It wasn't a great fighter, but it worked. And a lot of the P-40s produced during the war were going to other countries.


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## Maestro (Jul 12, 2004)

And (according to an American mechanic) the P-40 was the easiest plane to build.


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## Lightning Guy (Jul 12, 2004)

The probably played a part in it as well. The P-40 was really a 'no-frills' kind of fighter and I imagine it could be turned out pretty quickly.


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## MP-Willow (Jul 17, 2004)

Thanks all. As for "no-frills" I can see what you mean. The P-51 had a lot of extras, that and pilots would not have to reequip.


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Aug 2, 2004)

Crazy said:


> If you had the choice to fly any plane, for any air force, in any squadron, in any theater, during any year of WWII, where/when/what would you fly?



Fw-190, for the Luftwaffe, in the II/JG 26 (I believe), Western front, 1944, D-day with Pips.  (I wish... =| )

Or...

Me-109, for the Luftwaffe, II/ JG 53, Western Front, 1940, with Werner Mölders.. (I wish. =|.. again. )

Maybe.. 

Me-109, for the Luftwaffe, III/ JG 52, Eastern Front, 1942, with Erich Hartmann. ( Yeah.. I wish yet again. =| )


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## plan_D (Aug 2, 2004)

Nice and easy for you in 1940, until it was the BoB. The Luftwaffe got shown up then.


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## Lightning Guy (Aug 2, 2004)

That's why I chose the 475th FG. Losing 3 planes was a bad day for them. A very impressive group with a kill/loss ratio that occassionally approached 20:1.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 3, 2004)

The Jagdflieger Pips said:


> Crazy said:
> 
> 
> > If you had the choice to fly any plane, for any air force, in any squadron, in any theater, during any year of WWII, where/when/what would you fly?
> ...



my kinda girl..............

(that's the way lads, lay it on with a trowel...........)


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## MP-Willow (Aug 3, 2004)

C-87 or C-47, wit 10th army over the Hump. So I can paint camels on the plane next to a nice picture of a pritty girl 

Found a pic of a B-24 with lots of camels (compleated hump missions) on the nose before the plane lost to that very crazy and demanding mission profile.


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## Lightning Guy (Aug 4, 2004)

I had a relative lost flying a C-47 over a Hump. That was very dangerous flying.


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## lesofprimus (Aug 4, 2004)

Yes it was...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 4, 2004)

i know little about it, why was it so dangerous??


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## lesofprimus (Aug 4, 2004)

Flying over the Himalayas was no easy feat... Altitude was a big problem...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 4, 2004)

this may make me sound ignorant, but surely they would see a rather large mountain??


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## Maestro (Aug 4, 2004)

lesofprimus said:


> Flying over the Himalayas was no easy feat... Altitude was a big problem...



As I said in a previous post :

11. A number of air crewman died of farts (ascending to 20,000 ft. in an unpressurized aircraft causes intestinal gas to expand 300%).


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 4, 2004)

and that's what killed everyone??


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## lesofprimus (Aug 4, 2004)

Air is less dense at higher altitudes... Less air for lift... And those planes were loaded down with more cargo than they were designed to handle....

Alot of Very Brave men died there...


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## Lightning Guy (Aug 5, 2004)

Plus visibility wasn't always that great. And the winds could be rather extreme and unpredictable.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 5, 2004)

what planes were involved??


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## plan_D (Aug 5, 2004)

C-47 and C-46 were the main ones, I think.


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## MP-Willow (Aug 5, 2004)

The hump was run with C-47, 46, 53, ad C-87 and B-24s. They had to carry averything that an army and airforce needed for war. A C-87 had to make two trips to have the fuel for the thirsty B-29s that flew out of Western China. The mountains are the roof of the world. AS said before, the weather was horrid, the planes were heavy and if that is hard the Japanese know the routs because the planes can only fly up to 30,000 and a lot of the mountains are higher. 

Lanc it is ol that you have not read about the CBI and the Hump missions, they are remembered by a few. But I hope to keep it alove for you all.


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## GermansRGeniuses (Aug 5, 2004)

Actually, Mt. Everest (In Tibet) is the tallest and it pokes at a max. height of around 29,000ft...

Still, that's a lot of strain for engines, airframe, and crew...


Point~~~30,000ft IS safe!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 6, 2004)

not if there's mountain climbers on the top with a 1,000ft flag pole..............


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## plan_D (Aug 6, 2004)

Then you'd just go around it.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 6, 2004)

ah, that's where the bad weather comes in, you don't see it and so you land with a rather large british flag stuck to the front of your plane, and you wondered why everone saluted you when you landed...............


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## plan_D (Aug 6, 2004)

How long did that take to come up with? And it was still crap.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 6, 2004)

i made it up as i went along, and wouldn't you salute a plane with a huge british flag on the front??


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## plan_D (Aug 6, 2004)

No. This isn't America, we don't salute the flag unless in the military, even then you don't salute it every time you see it.


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## I./JG53_lud13 (Aug 6, 2004)

Bf 109G-2 Yellow13 in desert painting scheme MTO and of cours in JG53 PikAs


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 7, 2004)

perhaps a SDO with 101sqd..................


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## plan_D (Aug 7, 2004)

I'd fly from a catapult being launched in the middle of the Salt Lake. Or with wings...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 7, 2004)

ooooooooooooooooooook .........................


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## plan_D (Aug 7, 2004)

Better though, I'd fly in a F.6 Lightning with 11 Squadron at R.A.F Binbrook in 1972.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 7, 2004)

i'd just wanna fly a lightning, i don't care where................


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## plan_D (Aug 7, 2004)

Well my dad was with 11 Squadron in 1972 so I'd want to be there so he could have my dinner ready.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 7, 2004)

and that's the only reason, you don't want to fly the lightning, you just want a hot meal........................


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## plan_D (Aug 7, 2004)

That's the reason why I'd want to be in 11 Sqd. at R.A.F Binbrook in 1972. I'd love to fly a Lightning anywhere.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 7, 2004)

so we've left WWII aircraft now have we??


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## plan_D (Aug 7, 2004)

All though I wouldn't like to land a Lightning, it was a controlled crash.


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## MP-Willow (Aug 7, 2004)

WWII F6F-5 HellCat, that will be your crash landing on to the USS Shangrala.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 7, 2004)

well i would like to see you land a lightning on a carrier....................


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## plan_D (Aug 7, 2004)

The landing speed on a Lightning is so high it would be dangerous. All the pilots said that when landing a Lightning you get the gear down, aim for the runway and pray to God.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 8, 2004)

it tokk amazing skill to land and fly a lightning.....................


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## plan_D (Aug 8, 2004)

More like a lot of luck in the landing aspect.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 8, 2004)

fun to fly though..................


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## plan_D (Aug 8, 2004)

With a cruising speed of Mach 0.9 and a top speed of Mach 2.3 how can it not be fun?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 9, 2004)

when it comes to land...........................


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## MP-Willow (Aug 10, 2004)

airbracks, computers, and a long runway. 

But why not get back to WWII  

So another sugestion, the quiet predawn light of some misty South Sea Island \flying a Martin PBM  out lookig for the Japs and maybe just finging a Mavis or emily to dance with


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## plan_D (Aug 10, 2004)

Boring. You didn't actually need that long of a runway for a Lightning, and airbrakes? Drag chute, more like.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 10, 2004)

> computers



you wish mate.........................


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## plan_D (Aug 10, 2004)

Who does?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 11, 2004)

MP, he thought computers would help you land a lightning................


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## plan_D (Aug 11, 2004)

Computers on a Lightning!?! Are you KIDDING!?! Try telling my dad it had computers!!!


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## plan_D (Aug 11, 2004)

The Lightning had no computers in it. It was designed in 1947. It still had valves and hand screws in the construction. It still had locking wire for the engines. 

Flying a Lightning was ALL pilot skill. Landing a Lightning was pilot skill and luck. Bring it in, flaps down and gear down. Hit the deck, deploy the drag 'chute and slam your brakes on. Pray to God a tyre won't burst or that the drag 'chute has been fitted properly by the riggers. It was a controlled crash!!! No bloody computers!!!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 11, 2004)

i know that, it's MP that doesn't, he proberly thinks it had radar to.............


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## plan_D (Aug 11, 2004)

He did have RADAR. That thing in its nose is the Radome.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 11, 2004)

no i mean radar as in the modern radar that can track and fire at countless targets in a couple of seconds, like he thought it had modern computers.....................


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## MP-Willow (Aug 11, 2004)

That I did not! But I am now corrected. You two always Hunble me and at time inspire me to read more on different aircraft.


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## plan_D (Aug 11, 2004)

I apologise if I was too aggressive on the whole thing. It's just my dad worked on them for years, and he always tells me how hard they were to work on and such. So, I'm very passionate about the Lightning. 

The RADAR on the Lightning only had like 90 degree vision in front of it. Most of its capability was from ground RADAR. 

Oh some of the stories I have heard about the Lightning...it's great.


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## Lightning Guy (Aug 12, 2004)

A 90 degree FOV for a radar set wouldn't be all that bad. Modern phased-array fighter sets are only capable of covering about 120 degrees or so. 
Also Lanc, even modern radars can't track COUNTLESS targets. There is still a finite limit to what even modern computers and software can handle.


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## plan_D (Aug 12, 2004)

Well I never said it was bad, I'm just saying that's what it had. Some of the things that happened were just hilarious, and some of them down right dangerous. 

This bloke had been fixing something inside the Lightning, and he had dropped his screwdriver. The Lightning had to be scrambled, and the bloke went back into the bay and noticed his screwdriver was missing. They call the Lightning back and send a man down the intake, and the screwdriver was against the blades of engine one. Luckily it had gone across sideways so it had got caught. VERY VERY LUCKY!!! True story.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 12, 2004)

> Also Lanc, even modern radars can't track COUNTLESS targets. There is still a finite limit to what even modern computers and software can handle.



the computers on the apahche (so i can't spell..................) can track, if my memory serves me correctly, 184 targets, and prioritise the mest dangerous 64 in under 3 seconds..............................


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## plan_D (Aug 12, 2004)

AH-64 Apache. 8)


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## Lightning Guy (Aug 12, 2004)

That's only on the D model equipped with the Longbow MMW radar and that is still a finite number of targets.


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## MP-Willow (Aug 13, 2004)

Question are militaries becomming overly dependent on computers and softwhere? Personally I like the AH-64 C the "LongBow" is nice, but also is not used in great numbers. I think if memory is correct that it is linked to the other Apaches so it can help target for them. That is a long cry from the first Rotery wings in WWII. 

AS for the Lightening, I really am unread, so sorry Plan_D. Any sugestions on where I could read up on it?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 13, 2004)

> That's only on the D model equipped with the Longbow MMW radar and that is still a finite number of targets.



184 is still more than i can count in 3 seconds, let alone prioritise the most dangerous 64..........................


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## Lightning Guy (Aug 13, 2004)

The AH-64D can pass targeting data on to other Apaches. The real beauty of the system is the new model Hellfire missle using MMW radar for guidance which is a truly fire-and-forget weapon. The result is that 4 AH-64s can in a matter of seconds launch 64 Hellfire missles each with something upwards of a 90% hit rate. At least, that's the theory.


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## lesofprimus (Aug 13, 2004)

I'd like to see that theory put to the test sometime.. Think u can arrange it? I'd definatly pay $500 bucks to see that....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 14, 2004)

apparently each hellfire missile costs $64,000, so i doubt they'd make any profit..................


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## lesofprimus (Aug 14, 2004)

64 X $64, 000 = $4, 096,000

Hmmm...

I think we could raise that if we pimp out some of the posters here.... Probably get a good 25 bucks for plan_D's ass... 

Some old granny would love to have a piece of him, Im sure...


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## GermansRGeniuses (Aug 14, 2004)

Ewwwwwwwwwww....


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## lesofprimus (Aug 14, 2004)

Kinda sickening I know, and I dont even know what he looks like...


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## Lightning Guy (Aug 14, 2004)

Well the thing is, each of those $64,000 missles would be knocking out a $500,000 or so T-72. That expirement would get pretty expensive pretty quickly.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 14, 2004)

i recon i'm worth quite a bit...........................


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## lesofprimus (Aug 14, 2004)

Not to a 75 year old granny... Ur just a boy-toy to them....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 14, 2004)

don't they like toy boys??

and i'd rather go to a younger model anyway...............


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## lesofprimus (Aug 14, 2004)

Yes Grannies love boy toys, but only for the spare change in their purses... We'll have to pimp u out quite a bit 2 get the $$$ we'll need for the demonstration... Hope u ate ur Wheaties...

And u dont have a choice.... No young hottie is gonna pay us for ur unexperienced services....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 14, 2004)

you're just jelous because you know i'm worth more than you................


----------



## GermansRGeniuses (Aug 14, 2004)

Ewww, this is turning into Taiwan's underground "market"....


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 14, 2004)

LMFAOROFL.... You may be worth more than me in certain gay ritualistic maulings, but I would have ya in the 28-45 age bracket... Im an ex-SEAL and ex-ECHL player... I got some goods to offer the ladies... But my wife allows no pimpin of my skin, so ur on the choppin block....


----------



## GermansRGeniuses (Aug 14, 2004)

I'll kill you if you try to do anything to me...


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 14, 2004)

Hey Hey... This is purely voluntary... 

The older granny experience would be good for the young man... Learn some valuable lessons for the high school girls.... Knock their socks off...

I think if we volunteer the 4 mill for the missles, Im sure my govt can find some hapless country wth some spare armor laying around that we can invade and do our test firing...

Anyone know a pimp we can use as a middle-man???


----------



## MP-Willow (Aug 15, 2004)

AS for all the missles, why not use them to clear rush hour traffic? Provided we ask kindly.

That not being a good or reasonable thing all that armor will be hard to come bye.

Les, what are the oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds for?


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 15, 2004)

That is the highest German military award given during WW2 and it was given to Rudel... Golden Oakleaves...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 16, 2004)

the highest i've got so far on my german campain on CFS1 is the iron cross.....................


----------



## The Jagdflieger Pips (Aug 16, 2004)

I have a wingman.  

And some victories. o.o; 

Pips had: 
Deutsches Kreuz in Gold 
Ritterkreuz 
Eichenlaub 
Schwertern 

Maybe not the best, but I like him. X3


----------



## Lightning Guy (Aug 17, 2004)

Well Hitler was making up decorations for Rudel.


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 17, 2004)

Yup...


----------



## MP-Willow (Aug 17, 2004)

thanks.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 18, 2004)

wow these posts are getting shorter.................


----------



## MP-Willow (Aug 19, 2004)

Lanc is that bad? 

To try to get this topic going and have fun. Here is a question:
As a raw 'Green' pilot to the western Front what would be the first thing you would do?


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 19, 2004)

MP... Allied or Axis??? What year???


----------



## MP-Willow (Aug 20, 2004)

Lesofprimus,
With Alied and to make it fun May 1940 France. This should make it the Battle of Frace, yes?

Now I have a new sig picture :0 What inspired the navey fly boys to name the live vests


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 20, 2004)

the pic doesn't show up on mine..................


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 20, 2004)

Allied and Spring 1940 huh???

Hmmm....

As a GREEN pilot, i would probably say goodbye to my wife and son, cause chances are Im not comin home... Then bend over and kiss my ass goodbye...

Too many great German pilots around that time of the war to think that ull make it through 50 missions alive...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 21, 2004)

nice to see you've got an optomistic outlook on life.....................


----------



## cheddar cheese (Aug 21, 2004)

If youre positive about it then you have more chance of surviving


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 21, 2004)

and you wont go into battle thinking you're gonna die...................


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 21, 2004)

There were many many Allied pilots that felt that same sense of dread going into combat with the experienced Luwftwaffe pilots...

Im being a realist here... Not a pessimist...

If i werent a green or new pilot, things would be different...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 21, 2004)

so if you could chose to fly anywhere you'd choose to fly sumwhere you think your gonna die...........


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 21, 2004)

Huh??? Youre lost dude...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 21, 2004)

you said that's where you'd want to fly...............


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 21, 2004)

no it is not.. it was a question posed to me and i asked for a few details, and the hypothesis was born... If u read back ull see what I said of the original question...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 21, 2004)

sorry.................


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 21, 2004)

hehe...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 21, 2004)

what's so funny................


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 21, 2004)

you apologized...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 21, 2004)

fair point...............


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 21, 2004)

I know...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 21, 2004)

just don't get used to it.................


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 21, 2004)

*Gasps.... Never...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 21, 2004)

so you know me pretty well too then................


----------



## cheddar cheese (Aug 21, 2004)

i see my place has been taken in the unnecesserily-long-conversations-with-each-other then


----------



## MP-Willow (Aug 21, 2004)

Les, I would have hoped your realism would be a bit more fun.
Yes lots of good German Pilots but the English did have some too. I asked the question as a way to get this topic back, and a bit more detailed. 

I think my picture works now. It is different then the first, but the first sight is down now.


----------



## lesofprimus (Aug 21, 2004)

Pics not working....


----------



## MP-Willow (Aug 21, 2004)

Yes saddly I know, but I must be going. It is sad. I will try one more time before I go.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 23, 2004)

> i see my place has been taken in the unnecesserily-long-conversations-with-each-other then



yup, it used to be me and you, then it was me and Plan_D, that went on for ages, then it's been me and les for a while................


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 21, 2004)

what happened to the posting rate, i mean, crikey....


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 22, 2004)

i'm currently hanging around the 18 a day mark................


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 22, 2004)

lastnight when i came on her only 3 had been posted on that day...


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 22, 2004)

> lastnight when i came on her



Thats ing..... I mean, what are u thinking??? Theres impressionable little kids here....


----------



## GermansRGeniuses (Sep 22, 2004)

Ya know CC, I got a hammock you can borrow if you and your date want to excercise...


Those damn things tire you out after those... ummm... Things...


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 23, 2004)

i thought you lot were mature enough to overlook a silly little mistake like that


----------



## GermansRGeniuses (Sep 23, 2004)

Oh, look who's talking!!!


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 24, 2004)

Me mature enough??? NEVER!!!!!!!!!


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 24, 2004)

why, who is talking? 

congrats on 1000 posts GrG


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 24, 2004)

> i thought you lot were mature enough to overlook a silly little mistake like that



what are you kidding, that's a huge mistake......................


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 24, 2004)

technically it wasnt, i only missed one letter...


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 24, 2004)

It may have only been 1 letter, but it was a HUGE letter to leave out....


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 25, 2004)

i think 'e' is a relatively small letter...


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2004)

This is true, except where the failure to use said letter leads to allowing another word to be created, or to change the reference of a statement....

Like u did....


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 25, 2004)

but my girlfriend wasnt even involved in the conversation, so for you to assume that she was is a cheap way to exploit conversation


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2004)

> lastnight when i came on her only 3 had been posted on that day...





> but my girlfriend wasnt even involved



I wasnt assuming u had a girlfriend.... With living in the country and all, u could have been referring to one of Lancs sheep... Hopefully it wasnt one of his 200 lb big beasties... Those girls will break ur pubic bone if ur not careful....



> so for you to assume that she was is a cheap way to exploit conversation



Yes i know, aint it great..... Exploitation at is grammatical core...


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 25, 2004)

the thing is though i hate the country. Im actually a Londoner, from Peckham.

Maybe you didnt, but GrG most certainly did.

I think we need opinions from more people to try and eliminate bias.


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2004)

I think all opinions will be the same... That was a big slip of the lip, so to speak....


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 25, 2004)

Technically there was no slip of the lip, as this is not a verbal conversation.


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2004)

Hence the "so to speak" comment.....


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 25, 2004)

But you arent speaking, unless you dictate to yourself. And only mad people dictate to themselves.


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2004)

Jesus ur dense.... "Slip of the keyboard" better for u????


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 25, 2004)

My name is not Jesus. Yes it is better, because the keyboard isnt part of my body and that suggests that it was the keyboards error, and not mine.


----------



## GermansRGeniuses (Sep 25, 2004)

God damn...

IT WAS A BLOODY JOKE!!!


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 26, 2004)

but this is funny!!


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

i knew it was a joke  i just enjoy dragging it on so you all get pissed off  i have nothing better to do  8)


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 26, 2004)

what an insite into your life!!


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

Life? What life?


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

I guess pissin people off is one of the jobs of a moderator huh??


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

Its the job of this moderator


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

Sad....

We need more mods....


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

We know, Crazy's on the lookout 8)


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

He shouldnt have to look 2 far.... There are a couple that showed interest... If need be, I'll do it, just to have someone who has been one before....


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

You're prolly the best potential mod, youre online nearly as much as me and youre a darn sight more orderly


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

I am a bit of an American arsehole tho.... But, as a mod, i would have to curb that enthusiam somewhat, which i can of course.... I just dont...


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

Dude my respect for you just went way up


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

Dude, ur killin me....


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

Why?


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

Respect me for what I've done for my country, or my hockey career, or how I raised my 17 year old son....

Not for some posts on a website...


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

Internet good, world bad


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

Amen to that....


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)




----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

What the hell happened to ur avatar???


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

spam is more fitting


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

Dont think I understand, but OK.....


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

sorry i was doing two things at once. I meant people will be able to relate spam to me easier than an old Cooper S.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

If u think so, OK....


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 26, 2004)

looks like you two've made up then.............


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

Spammer! How many times do i have to tell you? keep on topic


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 27, 2004)

ok, i'd fly a lancaster on the dams raid................


----------



## Lightning Guy (Sep 27, 2004)

Nice knowing ya . . .


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 27, 2004)




----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 27, 2004)

If we find ur corpse, we'll make sure we scatter ur ashes over the English Channel....


----------



## MP-Willow (Sep 27, 2004)

Ok all as for this dropping the "E" I will say it is a big thing and as one who has in the past and will in the future miss type things you must be careful.

As for Sheep more power to you. I would take the sheep over the city! Maybe that is becaue I live in a city that seems to not want people to live in it or stay to work!


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 27, 2004)

My brother lives in Maryland and goes into Philly to see his pals and concerts and what not... He hates Philly....


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 29, 2004)

i've never lived in a city so i can't compare it to the country............


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 29, 2004)

i lived in a city once...but i was only a month or so old at the time


----------



## MP-Willow (Sep 29, 2004)

Les most of the time it is not that bad. But lastnight the rains made everything just bad. But glad it was Tuesday and not tomorrow. I am moving tomorrow, still in the city


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 29, 2004)

Moving in the rain is the absolute pits... Been there, done that....


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

The rain is superb


----------



## lesofprimus (Sep 30, 2004)

Rain is great, unless ur moving all ur worldly belongs during it... Then it ends up being one of the worst experiences ull ever have the bad luck to go through...

When u get older and grow up and move out into the world, pray u never get stuck movin in the rain....


----------



## cheddar cheese (Oct 1, 2004)

I would, but im not religious 

And who said anything about growing up?


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 1, 2004)




----------



## cheddar cheese (Oct 1, 2004)

8)


----------



## lesofprimus (Oct 2, 2004)

> And who said anything about growing up?



Uuummmm... I did???


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 2, 2004)

CC's in sort of suspended motion when it comes to growing up............


----------



## lesofprimus (Oct 2, 2004)




----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 2, 2004)

baisically he can't get much taller..........


----------



## lesofprimus (Oct 2, 2004)

Can he get fatter tho??? Is he horizontally challenged, as well as vertically???


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 2, 2004)

there's always room to get fatter.................


----------



## lesofprimus (Oct 2, 2004)

Hmmm... OK, so he can get fatter then... Let me look up his symptoms...

Acording to WEB MD, his condition is called "ILOVEMYMUMSTEAT"...

Only known cure is when the male testicles drop....


----------



## cheddar cheese (Oct 2, 2004)

The day my testicles drop i will become blind  (think about it)


----------



## MP-Willow (Oct 4, 2004)

WEll Al I did move  Yes Les the rain sucks but I made it. Thought it would rain on me but just cloudy skies. Now I have to un pack find my stuff I need and a place to put it all. 

Now back to this topic, how would I fly? Fast and low at night in a PBY-5A


----------



## Hot Space (Oct 4, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> The day my testicles drop i will become blind  (think about it)



Just make sure that they don't get caught up in the Toilet Seat then  

Hot Space


----------



## cheddar cheese (Oct 4, 2004)

I would fly high testing the Reggiane Re.2007.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 5, 2004)

wow, and to think people call you stupid.......................


----------



## cheddar cheese (Oct 5, 2004)

They know their stuff


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 6, 2004)




----------



## Concorde247 (Apr 9, 2005)

Its very hard to decide:
I think either a hurricane or spitfire in the battle of britain - or a Typhoon firing rockets at a train! - British rail watch out!

or Maybe a Wellington on an early berlin raid


----------



## DAVIDICUS (Apr 10, 2005)

"_If you had the choice to fly any plane, for any air force, in any squadron, in any theater, during any year of WWII, where/when/what would you fly?_"

I would fly a P-47-D (bubble canopy) in the 56th Fighter Group (Cave Tonitrum) in the ETO circa 1944.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 10, 2005)

any particular reason??


----------



## mosquitoman (Apr 10, 2005)

120 Squadron operating Libs out of Greenland


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 10, 2005)

thought you'd rather be in a mossie mossieman??


----------



## mosquitoman (Apr 10, 2005)

Good point, I'd forgotten about that
Banff Strike Wing in a Mk XVIII then


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 10, 2005)




----------



## mosquitoman (Apr 10, 2005)

57milimetres of sheer hell!


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 10, 2005)

i prefer to think of it as 6lbs...........


----------



## DAVIDICUS (Apr 10, 2005)

Lanc said, "any particular reason??"

As a little kid, reading about the adventures of Francis Gabreski and the 56th FG is what trurned me on to WWII aviation.

The passion you have for the Lancaster is equaled only by my passion for the Thunderbolt. To me, it represented everything American about the war.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 10, 2005)

what it was big, fat and as aerodynamic as a "house brick"??


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 10, 2005)

I was going to make a joke like that earlier but refrained.

You could also say they can take a whole lotta shit!


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 10, 2005)

and it could give out a whole lot of the stuff as well


----------



## DAVIDICUS (Apr 11, 2005)

How dare you poke fun at the P-47 Thunderbolt!


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 11, 2005)

We're not - Taking a whole lotta shit implies its tough, and giving out a whole lotta shit means it had good armament.

We were actually poking fun at Americans if anything 

However, feel free to poke fun at the British too! 

NB: I have nothing against Americans.


----------



## evangilder (Apr 11, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> NB: I have nothing against Americans.



We're actually quite tasty when grilled with lemon and garlic!


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 11, 2005)

Mmmmmmmm, lemon...Incidentally thats the only actual fruit I will eat


----------



## BombTaxi (Apr 11, 2005)

Id fly a Typhoon or Mustang with 2nd TAF in Operation Overlord. I thinhk the guys who flew those low level strikes, especially thr Tiffy pilots, must have been fantastically brave and somewhat crazy to achieve the results they did  8)


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Apr 11, 2005)

F-86s during Korea, any unit!

*HAPPINESS IS KILLING COMMIES* 

OOPS WRONG ERA!


----------



## DAVIDICUS (Apr 11, 2005)

Lanc said, "_what it was big, fat and as aerodynamic as a "house brick"_?? 

While I am an American and am big, fat and as aerodynamic as a house brick, I'm pretty sure that was a negative comment addressed to the P-47.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 11, 2005)

Most probably, to be honest I didnt see that. Bad lanc!


----------



## MP-Willow (Apr 11, 2005)

But we could turn out the P-47s as fast as the WASPs could get them to the sailers to take to the war. 

P-38 Operation Torch!


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 11, 2005)

it was actually aimed more at the americans.........


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 11, 2005)

Well technically speeaking the human body isnt exactly aerodynamic in the first place...I wonder if our feet will ever evolve into having venturi tunnels on the soles for extra downforce?


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 11, 2005)

well are feet are pretty aerodynamic, it's the torso that's the problem, fortunatly for felix in our science class he has no worries about the resistance from his head..............


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 11, 2005)

Too true


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 11, 2005)

unless he turns to see where the others are in a race for example...........


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 11, 2005)

If he turned is head slighty whilst turning it could aid cornering...which was always my downfall when running. Great on the straights but I had to back off on the turns...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 11, 2005)

why did you "have" to?


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 11, 2005)

Because I run so damn fast that I understeer into the other lanes..


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 11, 2005)

dude you aint that fast...........


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 11, 2005)

I am...Year 7 and 8 winner of the 200m sprint (didnt do sports day last year), winner of the sprint race every year at primary school...Im a lot faster than you think.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 11, 2005)

i'm the fastest in the year over 8 meters........


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 11, 2005)

8 metres


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 11, 2005)

yes, 8 meters...........


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 11, 2005)

Well quite frankly that isnt hard to achieve...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 11, 2005)

but damn i was fast........


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 11, 2005)

Hehe in Year 8 I totally annilhated everyone in the discus... "17m 10... 16m 54... 18m 19... 17m 88... 22m 54..." 

I threw last which is what made it so much better.


----------



## Anonymous (Apr 13, 2005)

My choice would be the P-47N in the PTO - best chances of becoming an ace with the least chance of dying for just about any fighter plane, and I'd not be shooting at rookies.

=S=

Lunatic


----------



## DAVIDICUS (Apr 13, 2005)

RG,

With an attitude like that, I'd say its fair to say that you aren't a member of the WWII generation. (I want bestowed upon me the honor and accolades of acehood but don't want to have to work hard or endure danger to get it)  

Seriously though, wasn't the P-47N just about the hottest ship to see combat?


----------



## DAVIDICUS (Apr 13, 2005)

DAVIDICUS said:


> RG,
> 
> With an attitude like that, I'd say its fair to say that you aren't a member of the WWII generation. (I want bestowed upon me the honor and accolades of acehood but don't want to have to work hard or endure danger to get it)
> 
> Seriously though, wasn't the P-47N just about the hottest ship to see combat?


----------



## DAVIDICUS (Apr 13, 2005)

RG,

With an attitude like that, I'd say its fair to say that you aren't a member of the WWII generation. (I want bestowed upon me the honor and accolades of acehood but don't want to have to work hard or endure danger to get it)  

Seriously though, wasn't the P-47N just about the hottest ship to see combat?


----------



## Anonymous (Apr 13, 2005)

DAVIDICUS said:


> RG,
> 
> With an attitude like that, I'd say its fair to say that you aren't a member of the WWII generation. (I want bestowed upon me the honor and accolades of acehood but don't want to have to work hard or endure danger to get it)
> 
> Seriously though, wasn't the P-47N just about the hottest ship to see combat?



LOL - all fighter pilots wanted to be aces. None wanted to be killed. The German aces sure didn't complain about shooting down much inferior opponents early in the war, especially in the East.

The P-47N was deployed against the hottest planes and pilots the Japanese still had remaining in 1945.

Yes, the P-47N was one of the highest performance fighters of WWII.

=S=

Lunatic


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 13, 2005)

Not all pilots wanted to be aces - In a recent documentary about Spitfires and the Battle of Britain, one pilot commented on how he thought the idea of tallying kills was a silly idea, and that all they went up to do was the job of protecting their country - the last thing on their minds was how many theyd shot down.


----------



## DAVIDICUS (Apr 13, 2005)

RG, 

So, which do you think would come out on top (P-51D or P-47N) in an air to air engagement at 15K altitude? 25K altitude? 35K altitude?


----------



## Anonymous (Apr 13, 2005)

P-47N - as long as it was rev'd up and at speed, and not full of fuel, it was an increadible plane. Pedermo killed 4 Franks in one sortie in the N. Even when the Ki-84's were thousands of feet above him and attacking, he was able to zoom right up and shoot them down.

In WWII fighter combat, speed was the single most important performance characteristic.

=S=

Lunatic


----------



## Anonymous (Apr 13, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Not all pilots wanted to be aces - In a recent documentary about Spitfires and the Battle of Britain, one pilot commented on how he thought the idea of tallying kills was a silly idea, and that all they went up to do was the job of protecting their country - the last thing on their minds was how many theyd shot down.



But the whole point is to shoot down the enemy, that's how you protected your country. Any fighter pilot who didn't realize this wasn't much of a fighter pilot!

=S=

Lunatic


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 13, 2005)

Yes - They wanted to shot down planes, duh, but what this guy was saying was that he wasnt bothered about becoming an ace or tallying his kills.


----------



## Anonymous (Apr 13, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Yes - They wanted to shot down planes, duh, but what this guy was saying was that he wasnt bothered about becoming an ace or tallying his kills.



Well, I can see that. Goals would be:

1) don't get killed or maimed

2) don't loose your plane

3) kill the enemy

However, by becoming an "ace" on most sides you got perks. Better planes, better plane crews, more control over your plane configuration, etc...

=S=

Lunatic


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Apr 13, 2005)

RG_Lunatic said:


> cheddar cheese said:
> 
> 
> > Yes - They wanted to shot down planes, duh, but what this guy was saying was that he wasnt bothered about becoming an ace or tallying his kills.
> ...



You know, I've met fellows who were fighter pilots during WWII and Korea and at first have had that thought process, but after the first few missions, their actual thought process was 

1) Survive

2) Survive

3) Survive

Comments?!


----------



## Nonskimmer (Apr 13, 2005)

Makes sense.

"Try not to shit my pants." 
From fear, anyway. G-forces might be another matter.


----------



## Anonymous (Apr 13, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> RG_Lunatic said:
> 
> 
> > cheddar cheese said:
> ...



Well, that should be the #1 item, which is where I placed it. But if a fighter pilot was too concerned with his own saftey, he would not be a fighter pilot very long. You had to be aggressive and you had to be dedicated to the mission as well.

=S=

Lunatic


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Apr 13, 2005)

Don't forget the puke on dashboard


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Apr 13, 2005)

RG_Lunatic said:


> FLYBOYJ said:
> 
> 
> > RG_Lunatic said:
> ...



Agreed, but I don't think thats the mindset for the first few missions!


----------



## Anonymous (Apr 13, 2005)

For the first few missions? Most US fighter pilots felt they were invincible and flew rather foolishly.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Apr 13, 2005)

RG_Lunatic said:


> For the first few missions? Most US fighter pilots felt they were invincible and flew rather foolishly.



I disagree - most folks I ever spoke to were SCARED! And they also said those who said they weren't were either lying or crazy!


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## Anonymous (Apr 13, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> RG_Lunatic said:
> 
> 
> > For the first few missions? Most US fighter pilots felt they were invincible and flew rather foolishly.
> ...



I'll try to find some pilot accounts for you. From what I've read, they didn't get "scared" until after their first serious clash with the enemy. Until then, they were more afraid of screwing up than of getting shot.


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## DAVIDICUS (Apr 13, 2005)

There is no reason to beleve that close quarters combat in the air engendered a different state of mind than close quarters combat on the ground.

My father was a Technical Sergeant in the Army who was involved in five battles. He also took part in the Invasion of Normandy.

He echoed precisely what Flyboy has indicated. "Everyone was scared and anyone who says they weren't is lying."


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 13, 2005)

I worked at Lockheed with a fellow named Joe Melichi, a liaison engineer who flew P-38s in the MTO. He told me during a mission, while shooting up ground targets, he got hit by something really bad, blew the top of the canopy off, holes everywhere and lost an engine which he got feathered immediately. When he got hit he grabbed the yoke (out of fear) engaged the gun switch and even shot off a few rounds from his plane's guns, emitting more explosions, flames and chaos in front of him.  On his way back to base he told me he was so scared he started crying because he had almost all his instruments shot away, but his greatest fear, HE LOST HIS MAP!  Other members of his flight, seeing he was shot up, joined up on him and escorted him home.

When he attempted to land, the plane skidded off the runway because all the tires were shot up. When he got out of the plane, he "went" in his pants when he saw the amount of damage to his plane.  Then to his surprise, some of his squadron mates ran up to him cheering. 

To his amazement, he discovered that he was being attacked by an ME-110 which just peppered his lightning. When the canopy blew off and when he grabbed the control yoke, the rounds he got off hit the 110 who over shot him and blew it out of the sky in sight of his entire flight! Hearing this he then puked on one of his buddies standing close to him.  

Joe always told me we was scared of dying, scared of screwing up and scared of doing something that would get someone else killed. Kills were celebrated after the initial excretions! He finished the war with 1 ME-110 and 1 ME-109.


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 14, 2005)

Wow thats an amazing story, and one wich really demonstrates the toughness of the Lightning...I enjoyed reading that, thanks!


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 14, 2005)

Thanks - when I worked at Lockheed in the early 80s there were a bunch of guys Like Joe still around. One of the guys was an engineering manager named Carson - I think he was known as Kit Carson and flew with Chuck Yeager.

I also had the pleasure to meet this VP from Lockheed Georgia, his name was Norman Appold. If you know your B-24 history he flew the Ploesti mission and got a Medal of Honor. You should of seen the look on my boss's face when I introduced my self and said "Sir it's a pleasure to meet a Medal of Honor winner."


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## evangilder (Apr 14, 2005)

You certainly don't meet them very often! Considering that most of them are awarded posthumously, your chances of meeting one are not all that good. I did get a chance to salute one when I was at Keesler. I wish I had gotten his name, I was a bit "star-struck", and intimidated when I saw that MOH. I was all of 18 years old at the time.


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## MP-Willow (Apr 14, 2005)

Flyboyj, I remember reading about his flight over Polesti, a place most B-24 crew would have been hapy to never go to! If you get a chance read the cition that was writen for his award.

As for the P-47N, a grand old bird that was great! It could hold its own with the P-51, but not as well higher up and I think if the P-51 got the jump on it, then game over. But the F6F, was the plane for the Pacific


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## mosquitoman (Apr 14, 2005)

It's the same with the VC, before Iraq, the last 2 had been given posthumously in the Falklands


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## DAVIDICUS (Apr 14, 2005)

MP-Willow said, "_As for the P-47N, a grand old bird that was great! It could hold its own with the P-51, but not as well higher up and I think if the P-51 got the jump on it, then game over._"

I believe that "higher up," as in over 30K altitude, was precisely the place that the P-47N shone the brightest. The turbo-supercharger system allowed it to maintain power where the thin atmosphere would strangle engines of oxygen and power.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 14, 2005)

MP-Willow said:


> Flyboyj, I remember reading about his flight over Polesti, a place most B-24 crew would have been hapy to never go to! If you get a chance read the cition that was writen for his award.
> 
> WILL DO - THANKS!


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## evangilder (Apr 14, 2005)

I had an opportunity to meet Bob Stempfels a few years ago who was also on the Ploesti raid. What a super guy!


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 14, 2005)

evangilder said:


> I had an opportunity to meet Bob Stempfels a few years ago who was also on the Ploesti raid. What a super guy!



I once heard in the 1970s there was a plan to make a movie about Ploesti, but the USAF caught wind of this and pressured the producers not do do it. Comments?!?


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## evangilder (Apr 14, 2005)

Hadn't heard that, but I think they could probably do one now. I would love to see that made.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 14, 2005)

It seemed it was going to really piss off the USAF, sought of an embarrassment as they were supposedly going to show all the ignored intelligence prior to the raid.


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## MP-Willow (Apr 16, 2005)

Inteligents yes, but that raid had to go off. Now the first raid was in 1942, with 12 planes from normal hight. If they would have taken the 178 from 25, or 20k feet a few more might have lived.

As for the film, I have seen some tv programs on it, but a film? I would not hold my breath. Hollywood would mess it up. But then we could see some B-24s again


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 16, 2005)

MP-Willow said:


> Inteligents yes, but that raid had to go off. Now the first raid was in 1942, with 12 planes from normal hight. If they would have taken the 178 from 25, or 20k feet a few more might have lived.
> 
> As for the film, I have seen some tv programs on it, but a film? I would not hold my breath. Hollywood would mess it up. But then we could see some B-24s again



It was in the 1970s when this rumour was circulating. After Viet Nam I think Hollywood would do anything to make the military look bad


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## MP-Willow (Apr 16, 2005)

Yes true. But they are not making films with the Airforce as a great big Star al hapy and clean.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 16, 2005)

Yep - for awhile Hollywood was on the "horrors or war" bandwagon and the "honor of the WWll veteran" bandwagon (which is not a bad thing) but in actually they are clueless. I heard that when the movie Peal Harbor was being made Ben Affleck constantly abused the real aircraft used on the film and said "if they're worth so much, why aren't they in a museum."


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## Wolf (Apr 17, 2005)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 17, 2005)

what an idiot.........


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## Nonskimmer (Apr 17, 2005)

And a lousy actor.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 17, 2005)

This was published in an aviation newspaper called the Pacific Flyer - it seems Mr. Affleck is a real bone head


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## Nonskimmer (Apr 17, 2005)

Ya don't say.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 17, 2005)

i think we should get les back, and all go pay ben affleck a visit


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 17, 2005)

And to think I spent money too see that movie! Another real idiot is Mr. Baldwin - I almost threw my shoe at the movie screen when they had him playing Jimmy Doolittle.


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## Nonskimmer (Apr 17, 2005)

I've read that quite a few veterans were upset with his portrayal of Doolittle.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 17, 2005)

i've never seen the film...........


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 17, 2005)

Good flick, entertaining, you could poke fun at all the techincal things that got screwed up, good looking women, and about 10 real life people rolled into 2 characters. They portrayed Ben Affleck as the hot P-40 pilot that couldn't read!! I think the latter may be true


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## evangilder (Apr 18, 2005)

Baldwin's Doolittle part was either written by someone who knew nothing about Doolittle, or he played him very poorly. He was not a foul-mouthed hothead, as they portrayed him. He was actually a very calculating guy that almost never cursed. A good example of this is when the carburettor expert showed up after they were experiencing widely varied fuel economy with the B-25:
_During the time it was necessary to call for help from civilian concerns a carburetor expert was sent from the Bendix factory to pressure check the carburetors of each airplane as well as to make such other adjustments that might be necessary.

The expert arrived and one of the pilots picked him up at Pensacola to bring him to Eglin Field. Immediately after landing some time was spent looking for Lt. Col. Doolittle for the sake of instructions and introductions. The expert was a small, irritable and cocky individual, apparently bored with the assignment. As soon as the Colonel was located, he was properly introduced. Before Doolittle could say anything further than “Glad to meet you,” the so called expert blurted out-

“Now just what is it that you want, bub? I understand you want some carburetors pressure checked! I can tell you now that they have been checked before they left the factory – as a matter of fact we just don’t send out equipment that is not in perfect condition – furthermore…”

Doolittle stopped him short with his famous fierce scowl – “Hold it, son!” he warned, “what did the factory send? An expert or a salesman? If you’re a salesman, go home, we have plenty of carburetors. If you’re an expert, stick around, we need you!” He turned on his heel and left the surprised little carburetor man who, incidentally, stuck around!
_
Source: http://www.doolittleraider.com/first_joint_action.htm


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 18, 2005)

His grand son Lives in the Antelope Valley, north of LA - hes a kick, retired AF, he hangs around Fox airfield. He always says "I'm really a rotten pilot, all I ever wanted to do is be a carpenter."

But Evan you're right, Baldwin playing Doolittle?!? They should of gotten Madona!


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## evangilder (Apr 18, 2005)

They act equally poorly!


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## MP-Willow (Apr 18, 2005)

Madona is good in Musicals, Eveta was her best acting work.
As for the "Pearl Harbor" film, please try to think that this film good or bad did get a lot of people young people as some of you are, thinking about what hapened. I went to school with kids who did not even know what Batan was. 

I am not saying any of you do not remember or honor the men and women who died over 60 years ago, but this worl dose have a lot who do.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 18, 2005)

While I agree with you in principal, what bothers me with films like this is the truth is stretched so far that you could almost assign a term paper to identify the "Hollywoodness" of this film. I know films like this are made to attract an audience and to tell a story, but many times that's through the eyes of the producer and whats really popular at the time.

As far as an honor to the men and women who survived Pearl Harbor, sure it was, but there were many Pearl harbor veterans who were also angered over this film by the cast who was in it and the way the film was manipulated by the producers who probably don't know what Bataan was! If it got a lot of young people interested WWII, that's great, but at the end of the day, I would make sure that my son or daughter knew what was "Hollywood" and was was real, then I would stop at a Blockbuster and rent the "Battle of Britian"!


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## Nonskimmer (Apr 18, 2005)

Well that's the danger with films like that (Pearl Harbor), isn't it? Many folks tend to take _everything_ depicted as historical fact.

Anything out of Hollywood is great for it's entertainment value, and maybe for getting the general gist of the story across, but should never be thought of in terms of a documentary.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 18, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Well that's the danger with films like that (Pearl Harbor), isn't it? Many folks tend to take _everything_ depicted as historical fact.
> 
> Anything out of Hollywood is great for it's entertainment value, and maybe for getting the general gist of the story across, but should never be thought of in terms of a documentary.



You got it mate!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 19, 2005)

this however is not the case with the dambusters film, the makers of which set out from the start for it to be a "semi- documentary", it is extremely accurate, they consulted most of the men involved and the model of the dam used in the briefing scene in the film?? that's the actual model used byt the RAF!! that's how accurate it was, most of barnes' wallis' items in the film were actually his own!!


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 19, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> this however is not the case with the dambusters film, the makers of which set out from the start for it to be a "semi- documentary", it is extremely accurate, they consulted most of the men involved and the model of the dam used in the briefing scene in the film?? that's the actual model used byt the RAF!! that's how accurate it was, most of barnes' wallis' items in the film were actually his own!!



And its ashame some current movies folks don't have this mindset when they make these war epics


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 19, 2005)

they could have filmed the film in colour however they felt this would detract from the realism, amazing................


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 19, 2005)

I think the Battle of Britan was also one of the best films in an attempt to "keep it real."

One film I always enjoyed for at least the flying scenes was "The Hunters" with Robert Mitchum and Robert Wagner. Korean war film made at old Geroge AFB, they used F-84Fs for the Migs!


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## evangilder (Apr 19, 2005)

That's part of the problem Lanc. When they do make a film that is historically accurate, it's great. But for some reason, people tend to think if one was historically correct, they all are. I think a movie can be historically accurate and still be entertaining. Thanks to U-571, people think it was the Americans that got the sub and the enigma. That really frosted me. Give the proper credit where it was due. But then again, anyone that is not an American in a Hollywood film ends up with an English accent. That is what really made me laugh about enemy at the gates. Russians with English accents!


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## DAVIDICUS (Apr 19, 2005)

I for one would like to see Hollywood do "Sink the Bismark!" Yes, I know it has been done before. It has EPIC potential, don't you think?


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 19, 2005)

Especially if we have Alex Baldwin play the skipper of the Hood!  

Seriously - I agree, I could see mega millions being made on that one!


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## MP-Willow (Apr 19, 2005)

Well for the British, but I am not shure American (USA) would go for it.

I saw the Windtalkers film and while it was nice, it really did not show much of the Navajo code talkers. and while they were in danger and one the lines they never had orders to die. None of them ever talked, but some did die. I have been in New Mexico and the people are still proud of the tradions and old ways. Even if the white man has stamped them almost all out. 

Did you all know the code was still classified long after the war? Other tribes were used for the Army as well.


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## Nonskimmer (Apr 19, 2005)

The Canadian Army did something similar but I couldn't tell you the tribes involved, offhand. Chinese Canadians were also trained as spies. That's because most of the Japanese Canadians were in the internment camps.


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## MP-Willow (Apr 22, 2005)

Thanks. I want to fly A nice PBY


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## mosquitoman (Apr 22, 2005)

Good choice!
I'd prefer a FB Mossie low over France or Norway shooting up anything in sight


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## tail_gunner (Apr 23, 2005)

I would be a pilot with the Flying Tigers. P-40s are cool.


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## MP-Willow (Apr 25, 2005)

P-40s yes, but the AVG was realy all alone. I was reading some of the history they started with almost 100 planes, but lost most of them to mechanical problums or canibalization for the others. 

And saddly P-40s of the AVG did not hunt A6Ms but the Ki-84 from what I read.


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## wmaxt (Apr 25, 2005)

evangilder said:


> That's part of the problem Lanc. When they do make a film that is historically accurate, it's great. But for some reason, people tend to think if one was historically correct, they all are. I think a movie can be historically accurate and still be entertaining. Thanks to U-571, people think it was the Americans that got the sub and the enigma. That really frosted me. Give the proper credit where it was due. But then again, anyone that is not an American in a Hollywood film ends up with an English accent. That is what really made me laugh about enemy at the gates. Russians with English accents!



I agree the movie was fictishous but wasn't the first enigma and associated codes captured by the British between Greenland and Iceland from a German trawler/Communications ship in '41 or early '42?

Just before D-Day the US caught a sub the 505, it's upgraded Enigma and all the then current codes with a combination of surface ships and aircraft with a small escort fleet buil;t around a baby carrier.


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## Nonskimmer (Apr 25, 2005)

wmaxt said:


> I agree the movie was fictishous but wasn't the first enigma and associated codes captured by the British between Greenland and Iceland from a German trawler/Communications ship in '41 or early '42?


That was actually the second Enigma captured by the British. The first was taken by them from U-110 in May of '41.


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## MP-Willow (Apr 26, 2005)

A Baby German Carrier? I did not know they had any other then the Graph Zepplin


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## mosquitoman (Apr 26, 2005)

I think it's an Allied escort carrier that was used to capture the U-Boat


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 27, 2005)

> Just before D-Day the US caught a sub the 505, it's upgraded Enigma and all the then current codes with a combination of surface ships and aircraft with a small escort fleet buil;t around a baby carrier.



yes he does in fact mean the baby carrier was part of the force that captured the machine, however his poor use of grammar is a bit missleading, i had to read it over a few times as well...........


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## MP-Willow (May 3, 2005)

Ok thanks. As for how I would fly? Why not seaplane raids from the I-400s over Pearl or WEst Coast?

Or Flying Liberators for Coastal Command over Iceland.


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## cheddar cheese (May 3, 2005)

Bit cold up there?


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## FLYBOYJ (May 3, 2005)

*I THINK IF I FLEW IN WW2, I WOULD WANT TO BUILD UP MY HOURS*


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## mosquitoman (May 3, 2005)

MP-Willow said:


> Or Flying Liberators for Coastal Command over Iceland.



Good choice, that's my alternative to raising hell in Northern France with a Mossie


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 4, 2005)

booring work though......


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## MP-Willow (May 6, 2005)

boring maybe, but the convoys truely did say thanks 
As for cold, yes, but I was raised in Maine, cold is all relative.
Lanc, Lancasters did a lot of missions like that


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 6, 2005)

they didn't protect convoys during the war.......


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## cheddar cheese (May 7, 2005)

I was just thinking how id like to have flown a Komet. Then I found this pic which reminded me why I didnt say this earlier 






Got this from this very excellet site about the Komet: http://www.sml.lr.tudelft.nl/~home/rob/me163.htm


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## FLYBOYJ (May 7, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> I was just thinking how id like to have flown a Komet. Then I found this pic which reminded me why I didnt say this earlier
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey great site CC! Plug into the EXCOR site. I knew a few of those folks who built the long ez rocket plane. I still think they still have a plan to build a 163 replica. Can you imagine flying the thing and knowing it won't explode on landing! [-o<


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## Glider (May 7, 2005)

An added incentive for not flying the Me163. If you did a heavy landing and the tanks ruptured then they would disolve the pilot 
Not nice


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 7, 2005)

that's assuming you got as far as the stage where you need to land.......


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## cheddar cheese (May 7, 2005)

And even then landing on a humble skid is hard enough.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 7, 2005)

with knowing you'll get blown up after..........


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## cheddar cheese (May 7, 2005)

Contrary to belief, some pilots DID actually make it through several sorties in a Komet. Check out the site I posted, its pretty good


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 7, 2005)

hang on a minute, CC's right, some of them did make more than one sortie


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## cheddar cheese (May 7, 2005)

And one of the guys actually escaped from and survived a crash, and is pictured as a JG400 veteran!


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## MP-Willow (May 9, 2005)

So to try and have the best luck not rupturing the tanks on landing come back with out any fuel. But that would be poor as well.

CC,I like your C-78 and *1 in the sig. Pardon if i am wrong, but the Italian trimotors are very nice.


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## cheddar cheese (May 9, 2005)

C-78? I have no C-78 in my sig....


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## Bushranger (May 10, 2005)

I'd fly a P-40 Kittyhawk, with 75 Squadron RAAF operating out of Port Morseby and later on Milne Bay


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## Blitzkrieg Bop (May 10, 2005)

It would not matter where i would fly... 



I WOULD FLY LIKE A FREAKY MANIAC!!!


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## Blitzkrieg Bop (May 10, 2005)

I would fly the Fokker GI Jachtkruiser in the Air battle over holland in may 1940! 

God, think about what we all had to miss...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 10, 2005)

heya love your siggy.........


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## MP-Willow (May 11, 2005)

C.C ok. I thought it looked like a CM 78 Could you corect my mistake? 

Is the one at the bottom an 82?


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## cheddar cheese (May 11, 2005)

Nope  SM.79 at the top, then a Fiat BR.20, then a CANT Z.1007 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 11, 2005)

but he was close


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## lesofprimus (May 13, 2005)

I would fly with VMF-214 with my Grandfather, and make Boyington look like my little punk-ass prison bitchh...


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## FLYBOYJ (May 13, 2005)




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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 17, 2005)

I would fly a Me-109 only becaue I love the plane so much. I probably would get myself killed though. If it was not a Bf-109 I think I would love flying a P-47D. All that horse power and firepower. It would be fun.


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## MP-Willow (May 17, 2005)

Adler, why not the Fw 190?

CC, thanks for the corection. I think for today I am in the mood to fly an Italian fighter over the Po vally


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 17, 2005)

Only because the Me-109 is my favorite aircraft. I know it was not the best but it is my fav. I love the 190 but I did not want to choose two Luftwaffe aircraft.


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## cheddar cheese (May 17, 2005)

Actually, lets go for it. Fw-190A-9 on the Western Front


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 17, 2005)

I dont blame you for it.


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## cheddar cheese (May 17, 2005)

Ive decided its my favourite plane I think.


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## plan_D (May 17, 2005)

Spitfire Mk.VIII over Burma. 

Spitfire Mk.XIV over Europe, '44 - '45. 

Hurricane Mk.IID over North Africa.


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## cheddar cheese (May 17, 2005)

At the same time?


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## mosquitoman (May 17, 2005)

Mossie FBVI over Northern France or Norway
Failing that a Lib in the Middle of the Atlantic


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## plan_D (May 18, 2005)

I'm good at multi-tasking, CC.


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## cheddar cheese (May 18, 2005)

I thought you were a bloke? Yes yes, women can multitask and men cant, but the difference is that men can do one job *properly*


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## plan_D (May 18, 2005)

Wrong, women like to think they can multi-task when men can't but it's all a load of bull. You'll find blokes doing loads of things at once and actually doing them RIGHT. 

I bet you all, you can find more men that can rub their stomach and pat their head at the same time than women.


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## cheddar cheese (May 18, 2005)

I cant sing and type at the same time, otherwise I type what im singing


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## plan_D (May 18, 2005)

I can but I can't sing and play the guitar at the same time...


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## cheddar cheese (May 18, 2005)

I cant play guitar very well in the first place


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## Maestro (May 18, 2005)

The better way to proove that women brains are different from men brains is this : try to find only ONE girl who stutters. You won't find any.

An other interresting thing (not related with brain, though) that I read in the newspaper. Ring-fingers are very sensitive to "testosterone". So men have their ring-fingers longer than their forefinger while it is the opposite way for women. If you are a guy with your forefingers longer than your ring-fingers, chances are that you're gay. If you are a girl and that your ring-finger is longer than your forefinger, chances are that you're a lesbian.

Now look at your hands...


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## FLYBOYJ (May 18, 2005)

Maestro said:


> The better way to proove that women brains are different from men brains is this : try to find only ONE girl who stutters. You won't find any.
> 
> An other interresting thing (not related with brain, though) that I read in the newspaper. Ring-fingers are very sensitive to "testosterone". So men have their ring-fingers longer than their forefinger while it is the opposite way for women. If you are a guy with your forefingers longer than your ring-fingers, chances are that you're gay. If you are a girl and that your ring-finger is longer than your forefinger, chances are that you're a lesbian.
> 
> Now look at your hands...



What if you don't have fingers?


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## Maestro (May 18, 2005)

Then you're screwed up !


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 19, 2005)

which ones the ring finger again??


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## evangilder (May 19, 2005)

The one right next to the divorce finger!


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## FLYBOYJ (May 19, 2005)




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## cheddar cheese (May 19, 2005)

Damn, that was funny


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## DAVIDICUS (May 19, 2005)

You laugh now but ...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 19, 2005)

i still don't know which one it is though!!


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## Maestro (May 19, 2005)

If you start counting from the thumb, it's the fourth finger.


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## cheddar cheese (May 19, 2005)

Well. Theres your thumb. Then theres the index finger (its rude to point) and then the imaginatively titled "Middle finger" named because of the fact it is in the center. There are two fingers left, one of which is the little finger, or "pinky"...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 19, 2005)

i know that but which hand!!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 19, 2005)

As for multi tasking I can drink a beer with my right hand and a whisky with my left at the same time!


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## cheddar cheese (May 19, 2005)

Id hate to think what youd be like if you were blonde


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## plan_D (May 19, 2005)

Your left hand, I think...

..phew..good thing I never want to get married. 

I can hold a pizza in my left and a beer in my right, and inbetween each, do the other...yes....that could make sense...I have a picture to prove it too...but it's not on here...or on my camera..it's a CRAPPY old..thing..one, and I haven't got a......scanner...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 19, 2005)

Thats a good thing cuz if he looks anything like the guy in your siggy, we dont want to see it!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 20, 2005)

the guy on the left doesn't actually look that bad.........


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## MP-Willow (May 20, 2005)

CC, why do you know say that the Fw-190A-9 is your favorite plane/ I ould have taken you for an Italian model?

Mossie, for the Lib over the Atlantic, good one. Now if you could find an Fw-200 to shoot down to break up the boardum.


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## cheddar cheese (May 20, 2005)

Well not the 190A-9, but just the Fw-190 series in general. I am a big fan of the Italian planes too though


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## mosquitoman (May 20, 2005)

I'm sure I could find something a bit more than a Kondor- hows about a Bv-222 or a Ju-290. I want a challenge!


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## cheddar cheese (May 20, 2005)

Me-323?


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## mosquitoman (May 20, 2005)

Bring it on!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 21, 2005)

over the atlantic??


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## cheddar cheese (May 21, 2005)

Why not


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## mosquitoman (May 21, 2005)

Don't know where it would land though


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## cheddar cheese (May 21, 2005)

Put some floats on it


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 22, 2005)

Now that would be a site a Me-323 with floats, not that it could float anyhow!

I love the siggy CC.


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## cheddar cheese (May 22, 2005)

Thanks 8) Glad someone likes it.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 22, 2005)

Im a rotor head, ofcourse I like it.


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## cheddar cheese (May 22, 2005)

Hehe, I recently came to the conclusion that Helicopters really do kick ass


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 22, 2005)

There is nothing better then being able to just STOP while in the air. Well relativly speaking.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 22, 2005)

then buy a harrier.........


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## cheddar cheese (May 22, 2005)

Yes but thats uneconomical. Helicopters are so much better.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 22, 2005)

I agree, plus I work and fly them everyday, so I thats why I love them.


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## plan_D (May 22, 2005)

A helicopter is one of the most uneconomical machines there is.


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## cheddar cheese (May 22, 2005)

But Hovering a Heli is more economical than hovering a Harrier..


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 22, 2005)

yeah but nowhere near as cool........


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## plan_D (May 22, 2005)

No it's not, CC. The only reason the Harrier can't do it long is because of the water cooling.


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## cheddar cheese (May 22, 2005)

Exactly...Engines over heat, fail, plane goes down, then come the repair costs...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 22, 2005)

go on then, what can you do in a helicopter gunship that you can't do in a harrier??


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## plan_D (May 22, 2005)

No because the Royal Navy pilots are some are the best in the world and they know when to stop hovering. 

Helicopters are extremely uneconomical, why do you think they have such a short range? They're at constant full power!


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## cheddar cheese (May 22, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> go on then, what can you do in a helicopter gunship that you can't do in a harrier??



Annilhate Ragheads/Skinnies with a Minigun/M-60 in a Derelict/Corrupt town (Circle as Appropriate)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 22, 2005)

no but you can do it with rockets or a 30mm, so you can do that........


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## plan_D (May 22, 2005)

The Gr.7 wouldn't need to use guns, it'll just blow the place to pieces with rockets and bombs.


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## cheddar cheese (May 22, 2005)

If youre in an Apache you can do it with a 30mm chain gun and 70mm rockets.


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## plan_D (May 22, 2005)

The Apache also has to be closer to it's target area at the start. It also can't get in and out at high speeds.


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## The Jug Rules! (May 23, 2005)

Lightning Guy said:


> Ok. I know this one. P-38 Lightning (whichever model was in service at the time), PTO, USAAF 5th AF, 475th FG, 432nd (Clover) FS, and I'd stayed there as long as I could. Like I said, I've already done the sketches for what my plane would look like.




Could you post some of your sketches?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 23, 2005)

yes, hovering in a helicopter you are unbelievably vunerable to ground fire and even fire from other aircraft, coming in at 600mph and dropping lazer guided bombs or rockets from one of the best ground attack platforms in the world (the harrier), you are far less vunerable than you are in a helicopter and you can do just as much, proberly more, damage.........


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## MP-Willow (May 23, 2005)

Ok all this harrier talk is a bit much, but the plane needs help with the lazer guided bomb drop. The choppers can do it all alone, and do hold up well to ground fire.

Mossy, were would you be based in your B-24? Greenland or Iceland? 
Me I woud take both, maybe in a Sotherland hunting U-boats and the stry aircraft that I could get.


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## plan_D (May 23, 2005)

The GR.7 doesn't need help with dropping it's laser-guided weapons. If you want to put it back on topic, don't mention the discussion that is off-topic.


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## mosquitoman (May 23, 2005)

I would go with Iceland and 220 Squadron- the first squadron to get Libs and the one of the pilots- Terence Bulloch is the only person to sink 2 subs in 1 sortie


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 24, 2005)

now that's the way to get back on topic........

this, however, is not.........


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## cheddar cheese (May 24, 2005)

There ae so many different planes that I would have wanted to fly. Its fairly hard for me to choose a specific situation.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 24, 2005)

Sorry to get back off topic here but I have to respond to some of these.



plan_D said:


> A helicopter is one of the most uneconomical machines there is.



Very True!



plan_D said:


> Helicopters are extremely uneconomical, why do you think they have such a short range? They're at constant full power!



Not true at all. When we are flying we take off at only 61% power and we normally fly at about 75 to 80 percent power. We can even pull one engine back to idle and use less fuel. We are unecenomical because of the amount of fuel it takes to keep the aircraft in the air, not because of the power we are using.



MP-Willow said:


> Ok all this harrier talk is a bit much, but the plane needs help with the lazer guided bomb drop. The choppers can do it all alone, and do hold up well to ground fire.



Not completey true. The AH-64A Apache could do it on its own but it was more efficient when the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior (the small little Bell OH-58 with the Ball on top) was used to target the tank the Apache was attacking. They would deploy the two aircraft in hunter killer teams. The Kiowa would act as the scout (hunter) going out and searching for the tanks, it would then paint them with the sights in the ball over its rotor system). The Apache (killer) would then come in and blow them away with Hellfires (laser guided by the Kiowa). The AH-64D Apache Longbow elliminates the need for the Kiowa because it has its own system above the rotors.


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## Medvedya (May 24, 2005)

Myself, I'd would have liked to fly Lysanders with the 'Moonlight Squadron' dropping off S.O.E agents, and picking up POW's rescued by the resistance.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 24, 2005)

Interesting choice. I would take either the Me-109G or the Fw-190D over the western front if I were to fly for the Luftwaffe or if I were to fly for the RAF I think I would have taken a Spit. I know I keep changing my choices but I just come up with different ideas in my head all the time.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 25, 2005)

don't worry everyone changes what they say..........


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## cheddar cheese (May 25, 2005)

Right now I wanna fly P-39's in the Pacific. Why, I dont know


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## mosquitoman (May 25, 2005)

You know that there were also P-400s in the pacific?


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## cheddar cheese (May 25, 2005)

Same plane  P-40 with a Zero on its tail


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## mosquitoman (May 25, 2005)

Apart from that- they were P-39s that the RAF didn't want, the main difference was that they had a 20mm Hispano instead of the 37mm


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## cheddar cheese (May 25, 2005)

Yep, much better gun.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 26, 2005)

As I am not a fan of the P-39 I deffinatly would not fly that thing, especially in the pacific.


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## cheddar cheese (May 26, 2005)

Its a love or hate plane. Personally I love it, as I do with the P-63.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 26, 2005)

the P-39's ok but i really don't like the P-63..........


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## cheddar cheese (May 26, 2005)

Whys that? I think it looks much better.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 26, 2005)

I dont like either one. If I were in the Pacific I would fly a Corsair.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 26, 2005)

the P-63's too big.........


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## cheddar cheese (May 26, 2005)

Its a Beauty...







Oh dont get me wrong I wouldnt want to fly one, but I love the planes.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 26, 2005)

look at it, it's huge!!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 26, 2005)

I think it was an attractive aircraft I just dont like sitting on a drive shaft.


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## BombTaxi (May 26, 2005)

Yup, you get hit in the belly and that shaft's coming straight thru yer seat...ouch!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 26, 2005)

yeap


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## cheddar cheese (May 26, 2005)

I always thought the P-39 and P-63 looked pretty small.


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## mosquitoman (May 26, 2005)

A P-39 is a little bit bigger than a Spit but I don't know about the P-63


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 27, 2005)

I thought the 63 was no bigger then the 39.


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## DesertWolf (May 27, 2005)

Id take a Bf.109K model flying in support of the ardeness offensive. Or maybe a zero in the attack on pearl harbor. And then again, a SpitfireMkI during the battle of britain.... Sorry, just cant make my choice.


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## cheddar cheese (May 27, 2005)

Fw-190F-8 in the MTO, 1944


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## MP-Willow (May 27, 2005)

Well we all have a changing mind!
If I were in a P-39 it would be with the Russians they seem to be the only ones who knew how to use them.

Why not fly with Findland in an Po-15? that might be the wrong plane, but the Fins were very good with the old out moded stuff they had.

For the Pacific, F6F-5 or Ki-43 over China, the IJA Air core rulled the sky.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 31, 2005)

I can never make up my mind but if I were in the Pacific it would be a Corsair, if I were on the Russian from it would be a Me-109G-10. If I were on the Western Front it would be a Fw-190D-9 or a Spitfire XIV. If I were a nightfighter I would want to fly a Ju-88G model.


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## cheddar cheese (May 31, 2005)

In the Pacific id wanna be in a P-38L, On western front an Fw-190A-9, Eastern front a Yak-3, and in MTO an Re-2005 8) As for a Nightfighter perhaps an Fw-190A-8


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## FLYBOYJ (May 31, 2005)

I'm sorry guys, I said it once I'll say it again......

Its 1943, I'm stationed at Key West - here's my PBY. Today I dropped a few depth charges. I think I hit something. Completed my report "sighted sub sank same." It's now 16:00. Temperature is 84F chance of thunderstorms, flight ops cancelled tomorrow. I'm just getting ready to drive down to Sloppy Joes and have drinks with Ernest Hemmingway.....


War is hell.....


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## Medvedya (May 31, 2005)

Admittedly, that one is hard to beat.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 31, 2005)

And again I am back with Flyboy drinking Pina Coladas on the beach with all the honeys!


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## FLYBOYJ (May 31, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> And again I am back with Flyboy drinking Pina Coladas on the beach with all the honeys!



I'll get the first round at Sloppy Joe's!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 31, 2005)

Sounds like a plan!


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## evangilder (May 31, 2005)

Yep war is hell!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 1, 2005)

Someone has to do it.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)

Yep - To stay current I'll study my POH and and get ready for the mission the next day!


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## mosquitoman (Jun 1, 2005)

A Mossie any use down there?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)

mosquitoman said:


> A Mossie any use down there?



Maybe, but I'd bring a Beaufighter if I were you


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## mosquitoman (Jun 1, 2005)

That's ok, that'd be my second choice


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)

Bring that and you could buy the next round at Sloppy Joe's


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## mosquitoman (Jun 1, 2005)

Fine by me!


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)




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## mosquitoman (Jun 1, 2005)

Actually a Mk XVIII Mossie could be useful- just think of the 6-pounder bolted on the front of it!


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)

I think the ladies will like the Beau more, you know, rugged, macho


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 1, 2005)

Yeah, with a 57mm on the Mossie theyll just think youre making up for other areas


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Yeah, with a 57mm on the Mossie theyll just think youre making up for other areas



 Yep, I could just hear it, "do you have a big gun only on your airplane?"


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## mosquitoman (Jun 1, 2005)

You misunderestimate me!


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 1, 2005)

I mean why do you think I like the P.108A and its 102mm cannon so much?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)

Because you only have a big gun on your airplane?


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 1, 2005)

Yes, and to make things worse its a big unreliable gun that breaks the plane everytime it fires


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)

You poor boy, a good breech might fix the problem!


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 1, 2005)

Dont you go fiddling with my gun...the butt is big enough already


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)

To support a big chamber?


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 1, 2005)

Nah, all that firing is making me run low on ammo


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)

Poor boy, you might start shooting blanks!


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 1, 2005)

Oh no!  And being Italian, theyre finding it hard to stand up to the enemy!


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)




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## cheddar cheese (Jun 1, 2005)

But then again if they do stand up to them, the enemy will give them a pounding!


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)




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## plan_D (Jun 1, 2005)

Quite the gay inuendo banter you two have got going on...


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## Nonskimmer (Jun 1, 2005)

I mean...


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 1, 2005)

plan_D said:


> Quite the gay inuendo banter you two have got going on...



HEY, He's the one with the broken big cannon in his airplane (because his other cannon is much smaller) that shoots blanks!  

......What the hell did I just say?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 2, 2005)

this's actually quite funny......


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## mosquitoman (Jun 2, 2005)

That's why I like my MkXVIII Mossie, not only is the gun big but it can be fired many many times and is very reliable!


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 2, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> plan_D said:
> 
> 
> > Quite the gay inuendo banter you two have got going on...
> ...



I do a good job of concealing it though, eh? 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 2, 2005)

ohoh i can see it!!


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 2, 2005)

I cant


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 2, 2005)

it just sticks out below the nose...........


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 2, 2005)

I thought that but it looks a little small...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 2, 2005)

well remember that's a big plane and the barrel won't be much more than 11cms wide........


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## MP-Willow (Jun 3, 2005)

FlyboyJ, that PBY is it a 5A or 6A?
If you RAF types want to come to the dace, bring a Suderland please. As most of the islands are not able to have an airbase, and Sea Panes do rule!

After seeing a speacial on the RAF and BoB why not a war tor near broken 19 year old kid who flies two or three times a day! I think I would have cracked, or being a bit trigger happy, have been out of rounds very fast 

But after October 1940, having servived, I am sent to Canada to train the new pilots


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 3, 2005)

I think that might be a 5A, and Toronto is nice in the summer


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 4, 2005)

for training, i'd much rather be in a pre-war situation, flying at dusk over kent in a tiger moth........


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## Nonskimmer (Jun 4, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> ...and Toronto is nice in the summer


It sure is. 
Except for the smog and humidity, but damn there's lotsa skin!


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## evangilder (Jun 4, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> for training, i'd much rather be in a pre-war situation, flying at dusk over kent in a tiger moth........



Like this one?


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## Nonskimmer (Jun 4, 2005)

My grandfather loved it. He did some of his basic flight training in them, like so many Commonwealth pilots. He always said it was a great little plane, easy to handle. Essential I guess for pilot trainees. Interestingly, he also did some of his training in an old Nieuport.


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## evangilder (Jun 4, 2005)

Last year we had that one, the Tiger Moth and a Gypsy Moth. Great little biplanes. Looked effortless to fly.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 5, 2005)

I got a lead to fly one here soon! I hope it pans out.


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## evangilder (Jun 5, 2005)

That'd be cool, FBJ! They have biplane tours here now too. They have all kinds of packages too. Check this place out:

http://www.barnstorming.com/aeropress/cgi_bin/xfer.cgi?page=prod_biplane.php#toptop


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 5, 2005)

yes evan but i'd much prefer it in RAF colours.........


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## Nonskimmer (Jun 5, 2005)

Good link evan.


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 5, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> yes evan but i'd much prefer it in RAF colours.........



Like so?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 5, 2005)

well yellow undersides but i'd much prefer cammo top surfaces.......


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## MP-Willow (Jun 6, 2005)

Lanc you are not asking to much are you? yellow and Camo, an interesting paint job, yes?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 6, 2005)

those colours were actually used you know.......


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## MP-Willow (Jun 8, 2005)

In combat? I have seen B-24s in bright colors as point planes to have the groups join up on them for the crossing, but then they would go back to base.

If they were used please let me know, I did not think they were


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 8, 2005)

Here ya go!

They would return to base.


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## Nonskimmer (Jun 8, 2005)

Interesting.


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## evangilder (Jun 8, 2005)

They were formation birds. They sported bright colors so each group could identify who to form up with. These were war weary airplanes that were only for forming up. If you get the book "The Might Eighth: The Colour Record" by Roger Freeman, he has several pictures of these formation birds. It's a neat piece of 8th AF history.


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## mosquitoman (Jun 9, 2005)

Lanc, the only yellow and camo paint scheme was used on prototypes or transpot aircraft


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 9, 2005)

it was used on tiger moths as well!!


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## MP-Willow (Jun 13, 2005)

Flyboy, a great old worn out B-24D that I have read about other places, but not picked up a photo. 

Evenglider, a new sig? Is that the A6M that the museum was restoring?


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## evangilder (Jun 13, 2005)

Actually, Willow, that A6M came to us restored. We have another that may or may not be restored, depending on finances.


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## MP-Willow (Jun 15, 2005)

Ok I must have been reading about that unrestored one thought it was worked on, thanks for the help.


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## Monkeysee1 (Aug 25, 2005)

Allright since everyone's weighed in on this one I will too... 28 pages... holy [email protected]!!!

A P-47 in the 56th fighter Group under Hub Zemke or Gabby Gabreski. 

A FW190 during 42 or 43 was it? Just to smoke some silly Spit V's. 

Finally and most enjoyable, a wingman of "Bubbi" Eric Hartman's and kill some commies  . PS.... He never lost a wingman eh?

"Its the only job in the world where just being human can get you killed." 

~My Squadron Commander~


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## evangilder (Aug 26, 2005)

I would think it would be interesting flying with Zemke's wolfpack.


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## Gnomey (Aug 26, 2005)

Spitfires at any time during the war, Mustangs on escort duties of Germany or Jabos during 1944/45 in Western Europe (P-47 Typhoon)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 27, 2005)

good choices, i wouldn't mind a go in a wellington.......


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 25, 2006)

I would fly a P-38 with Thomas Mcguire in the 431st squadron of the 475th Fighter Group, of the 5th Air Force. We would jump a couple of Japanese Oscars putting them into a nose attempt landing and put some kills on the side of our -38s!


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 25, 2006)

Oh, and as for Europe, a P-51D in the 363rd Fighter Squadron, 357th Fighter group of the 8th Air Force. 

Protecting B-17 bombers form German fighters, and seeing Germany from above!8)


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## tomsong3320 (Jul 26, 2006)

The E.G. over hiroshima


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## tomsong3320 (Jul 26, 2006)

the E.G> over hiroshima


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 27, 2006)

For allied airpower I would want to fly a P-47, dont really care which group or what not, they all had the airial superiority.

For Axis I would want to fly with either Hartmanns group in a Bf-109G-6 or in Nowotnys Me-262 group.


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 27, 2006)

Awesome! For axis powers, I would have flown a Fw-190D with any group in France.


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## Bullockracing (Jul 28, 2006)

PTO (allied) A-20 with Pappy Gunn mods
PTO (axis) Ki-44 Shoki against B-29s
ETO (allied) P-61 night fighter
ETO (axis) 109 as Hartmann's wingman
MTO (allied) P-39 during Torch
MTO (axis) any of the fine Italian thoroughbred fighters (Re 2005, 205V, etc)


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 28, 2006)

Awesome list. P-61 Night Fighter would be pretty cool.


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