# Japanese American internment camp museum breaks ground in Utah



## evangilder (Aug 7, 2012)

> The story of the internment of more than 100,000 Japanese Americans during World War II hasn't always gotten widespread attention in the United States. But with construction beginning on the new Topaz Museum and Education Center in Utah, another step is being taken to keep the memory alive.



Read the full story below:
Japanese American internment camp museum breaks ground in Utah - latimes.com

Interesting timing. For years, we have driven past Manzanar, another Japanese American internment camp. Tomorrow, we will be visiting there. We stopped once before there was a museum or anything there. I have been getting a calling to visit again for a number of years. I will post some photos later in the week.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 7, 2012)

Looking forward to it. Certainly something I would like to see as well.


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## razor1uk (Aug 7, 2012)

Sorry, weren't some of the most 'combatable' units (army and army air force) drawn from these 'internment'/concentraion camps - to prove to the 40's biggots how dutiful and American they were - can wait for photos (but will be intrigued), tis a longtime coming for them to be recognised officially.


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## evangilder (Aug 7, 2012)

Yes, the "Go for broke" 442nd Infantry Regimental Combat Team cam from the camps. They have a website:
Go For Broke National Education Center - Preserving the Legacy of the Japanese American Veterans of World War II

Not much is left in Manzanar anymore. There are foundations all over the place, a memorial stone, replica guard tower and the gym left. The gym houses the museum. 150 Japanese Americans died while in the camp. Some were cremated and all but 6 of the remains have been removed and buried elsewhere.


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## GrauGeist (Aug 8, 2012)

The story of Thule Lake is also interesting...there were actually two camps in one: The internment section and the prison section.


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## evangilder (Aug 8, 2012)

Manzanar was the first of the camps to be built. There is more there than I thought as the site was very large. About 10,000 people were interned here, most of them were American citizens.

There are a lot of photos in here, but I wanted to try and give an idea about this place. The interiors of the barracks were unfinished wood in 1942. By 1945, they had the sheetrock and flooring. The building were just wood and tarpaper, which must have been miserably cold in the winter. 

The monument in the cemetery area is really moving. There were origami cranes in masses, tied with string. Can one of the Japanese members tell me what the significance is with the origami cranes? They were hundreds of them. Notice also the model of the camp to show how big it was. 

If you are ever in the Sierras, I would recommend visiting. It's moving.


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## Thorlifter (Aug 8, 2012)

Incredible pictures Eric. Thanks for posting them with the details.


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## evangilder (Aug 8, 2012)

I plan on doing an online article about it when I get back next week. There are so many details and facts that are interesting about it. Some of the photos in the interpretation center are pretty disturbing.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks for posting these. Certainly something we should not forget.


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## Lucky13 (Aug 9, 2012)

Thanks Eric!


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## michaelmaltby (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm glad you started this thread, evangilder ..... we did something similar on a smaller scale in Canada. Not our greatest moment but times were different then. Nothing to be proud of but nothing to be buried in the dark either. During 1914-18, the Canadian government interned Ukrainian Canadians IIRC because [part] of the Ukraine was territory of the German-Austrian alliance ... IIRC.

On the other hand ... Canada and the US didn't work these people to death on starvation rations as Canadian POW's were worked in Japanese mines after the fall of Hong Kong (December, 1941). And these camps were never the breeding ground for outbreaks of contagious disease the way the Boer War camps in South Africa were, IIRC. 

I think it is folly to second-guess others in wartime ..... IMO. But - we certainly must keep learning about ourselves .... as human kind.

MM


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## A4K (Aug 9, 2012)

With Jan, thanks for posting Eric!

Had read of these internment camps in 'Snow falling on Cedars' by David Guterson. Wonder how large a role that book (and subsequent film) played in opening people's eyes?


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## Shinpachi (Aug 9, 2012)

evangilder said:


> The monument in the cemetery area is really moving. There were origami cranes in masses, tied with string. Can one of the Japanese members tell me what the significance is with the origami cranes? They were hundreds of them. Notice also the model of the camp to show how big it was.



They are called Senba-Zuru(Thousand Cranes) folded by, mainly, women praying for the souls of victims. 
They look healing old wounds to my eyes.
Thanks for sharing, Eric.


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## Vincenzo (Aug 9, 2012)

michaelmaltby said:


> I'm glad you started this thread, evangilder ..... we did something similar on a smaller scale in Canada. Not our greatest moment but times were different then. Nothing to be proud of but nothing to be buried in the dark either. During 1914-18, the Canadian government interned Ukrainian Canadians IIRC because the Ukraine was part of the German-Austrian alliance ...
> MM



Ucraina was part of russian empire... so were allies. maybe we need more data for understand this history


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## evangilder (Aug 9, 2012)

Shinpachi said:


> They are called Senba-Zuru(Thousand Cranes) folded by, mainly, women praying for the souls of victims.
> They look healing old wounds to my eyes.
> Thanks for sharing, Eric.



Thanks Shinpachi-san. I was reading about Senbazuru earlier this morning. There are a few stories about the thousand cranes. After reading more about that, I got the impression it was about healing and peace. There were also rocks and coins left at the memorial. I know in Judaism, placing a rock on the memorial stone signifies many things as well, but the main one signifying that the person has been visited and is remembered. I don't know the origin or significance leaving coins, so if anyone cares to chime in, feel free. It appears that there is a bit of healing from multiple cultures going on there. I saw some Japanese, Americans and even some European visitors there yesterday.


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 9, 2012)

Amazing, thanks for posting the information gents.


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## evangilder (Aug 9, 2012)

So I have done a little reading about leaving coins at a gravesite. Again, there are several interpretations about it and why it is done, but it does not appear to have any religious roots. The one I think probably sums it up best is this explanation:


> Some people hold to the tradition of leaving something of yourself when visiting a grave. If nothing else, a coin from your pocket serves as a marker of your passage and esteem for the departed. It also signifies to any that pass by that the grave was visited, and that the deceased is well loved and esteemed and has not been abandoned or forgotten. Coins are also an older form of leaving flowers, a practice prompted by the heavy Romanticism of the Victorian era.
> 
> Read more: Why are pennies put on a grave


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## Shinpachi (Aug 9, 2012)

If it is in Buddhism, a victim's family places a stone to mourn him or her murmuring like "One for mother, one for father..."
You will see same Monetary Offering - Saisen by coins in a Buddhist temple.


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## evangilder (Aug 10, 2012)

Great info, Shinpachi-san. For all the differences that propaganda tried to point out between us, we are all more alike than they realized.


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## razor1uk (Aug 11, 2012)

Incedently, there is many academically 'un-accepted' connections between Ancient Japan/Bhuddism and Ancient Jewish practises too - the leather arm straps and (fore..)head-box things, animal or animal token/totem sacrifce, intonements while sprinkling/spreading/offering salt, the carrying of (usualy) box shaped shrines/arcs etc..


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## evangilder (Aug 11, 2012)

There are a great number of shamanistic practices that are the same in many parts of the world, many where the cultures have never met. It makes for an interesting set of theories as to why that is. Judaism and Buddhism are both pretty old and there may be some cross pollination of rituals and customs. By providence or by accident is always a debate, but it is interesting to look at religions comparatively and see the similarities.


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## Matt308 (Aug 11, 2012)

While I envisioned a large camp, I never understood the magnitude of what they deemed a "camp". That would be considered a rather sizeable town.  Makes you understand all of the societal implications for running such a "camp" under controlled conditions. Things like an internal gov't and all its bureaucratic layers, utilities, black market, gangs, sports, entertainment, trading, etc. Makes me wonder if somewhere locked in a warehouse is crates of studies and findings documented on this "experiment" that likely will not see the light of day until after we are long gone. Great thread. I didn't think any physical remains still existed of this historical action.

I heard an elderly japanese-american recall her time in the camp from when she was a kid. What struck me most was the pics above showing how pristine the carpentry was on the housing units. Her remembrances were of how they siding was built so poorly and with such low grade wood that huge gaps allowed for cold winter winds to whistle through the units at night and how she was constantly shivering. She noted that clothing was used to stuff the gaps as best they could to seal these gaps up. Not sure if this is the same camp as she was interned, but a sobering story nonetheless.

Shinpachi-san, can you translate the writing on the white monument for us please?


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## Shinpachi (Aug 11, 2012)

The Japanese Americans introduced in Japan(Photo Weekly July 15 1942 issue).
Publisher says these photos were obtained from LIFE magazine in Berlin.


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## Shinpachi (Aug 11, 2012)

Matt308 said:


> Shinpachi-san, can you translate the writing on the white monument for us please?



慰霊塔
Memorial tower

千九百四十三年八月　満砂那日本人建之
Japanese at Manzanar built this. August 1943.


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## Matt308 (Aug 13, 2012)

Thankyou, sir. And the Life magazine pics make staying in the camp look like a vacation.


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## evangilder (Aug 13, 2012)

Keep in mind that the buildings today and along the lines of what was once in place, with the idea of them being around a while as opposed the ones that were hastily assembled in 1942 for the sudden surge of people. I would venture to guess that they are better made now than they were when they were originally built.


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## mikewint (Aug 13, 2012)

I in NO way justify or condone but considering the times, the war, the seak attack on Pearl, etc. one can understand how all Japanese were painted with the same broad brush. H*lls Bells we still see it today. How many Muslims we attacked, mosques burned, etc. after 9/11.
Glad this is being built


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## Matt308 (Aug 14, 2012)

Mosques burned? Please nobody respond to this post.


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## michaelmaltby (Sep 2, 2012)

More on Canada's camps in 1914-18:

First World War internment camps a 'difficult scar' for Canadian Ukrainians | CTVNews


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## Vincenzo (Sep 2, 2012)

michaelmaltby said:


> More on Canada's camps in 1914-18:
> 
> First World War internment camps a 'difficult scar' for Canadian Ukrainians | CTVNews



unlucky the article does not make clear... probably this ukrainians were austrohungarian citizen, so at time were called ruthenians


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## GrauGeist (Sep 2, 2012)

The practice of leaving coins for the dead goes quite a ways back...the Greeks and Romans used to leave coins for thier departed so the person's soul had passage for the ferryman across the river Styx.

My Grandfather was a guard at Tule Lake Internment camp. He, my Grandmother, Aunt and Mother lived there from it's opening until after the close of the war. So I grew up hearing stories about life there.


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## evangilder (Sep 2, 2012)

Wow, Dave. I have met a few people whose family were inside the camp over the years. You are the first one I met who had a relative that was a guard.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 2, 2012)

Yes, my Grandfather was a WWI veteran (U.S. Army) and was called up to Camp White for preperation for guard duty at Tule Lake, I believe in 1942.

I can check with Mom for more details.


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## evangilder (Sep 2, 2012)

Very interesting. Your posting reminded me that I wanted to do an online article on my website about Manzanar. Well, I did it today. I will probably do some tweaking next week, but I wanted to get it published. I also should acknowledge Shinpachi for the translation.

Van Gilder Aviation Photography, Manzanar

I'd be interested in hearing more about your grandfather's time as a guard at Tule.


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## Shinpachi (Sep 3, 2012)

You can be a good editor too, Eric.
Thanks for sharing.


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## michaelmaltby (Sep 3, 2012)

Great post.

MM


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## Matt308 (Sep 3, 2012)

I liked your online article. I noted that you went out of the way to highlight the separate bath and toilet facilities and how the toilets did not have stalls. This was more common than most people think for that era. I know first hand, as I worked at Todd Shipyards Seattle facility on destroyers and fast fast frigates in the 1990s. Todd Shipyards was a primary WWII shipyard for the Pacific Northwest during WWII. I distinctly recall the shock when upon the first time I visited the men's room, my urge suddenly disappeard when I saw what must have been 30 or 40 toilets all within reach of each other out in the open of a huge room in the main mess hall building.

So our current modern modesty aside, at that time what was good for the goose was apparently considered good for the gander.


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## Marcel (Sep 6, 2012)

Matt308 said:


> Mosques burned? Please nobody respond to this post.


There's more than just the USA, Matt and yes, they burned 2 Mosques here in the Netherlands after 9/11 . So at least we Dutchmen did not learn anything from this. But I understand what you're trying to say, no politics, so I'll stop here. 

On topic: great pictures and story Eric, thanks.


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