# Canadians being nicknamed "Red Devils" by Germans...



## Maestro (Mar 31, 2007)

Hi.

I heard a weird rumour lately. I heard that German troops were nicknaming Canadian troops the "Red Devils" during WWII because they had a reputation for not taking any prisoners.

Is that true ? Anyone can confirm that rumour ?


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## pbfoot (Mar 31, 2007)

I think the PPCLI are that regiment I'm not sure about the prisoners possibly they got the reputation in Ortona. Ortona was a house to house fight that lasted 7 days over Xmas 43 against the 90th Pamzer grenadiers and the and the 1st FSJ paratroopers . They rewrote the Brit manual on house to house clearing.


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## Emac44 (Mar 31, 2007)

I know the Australian Infantry during WW1 had a particular reputation about POWs on the Western Front but also had another reputation given by the Germans in WW2 around Siege of Tobruk. Germans called them the Rats of Tobruk. Kind of back fired on the Germans because the Aussies took it as a badge of honour. Damn some just do not understand us Australians one bit. But I like that Canadians being called Red Devils kind of suits them


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## Bernhart (Apr 3, 2007)

think this rumour started after d-day. there were Canadians that were captured around D-day and 21? were executed by the SS under kurt Meyer. After that for a few months Canadians refused to take any SS surrendering. I believe the red devils refer to the british and Canadian paratroopers especially after Arnhem


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## Civettone (Apr 3, 2007)

I am not sure but my opinion is that 90% of all nicknames were false. 
I can imagine one or another German general referring to the Australians at Tobruk but I'm confident these names were not very common.
I'm especially thinking of the Fork-Tailed Devil (P-38), the Whispering Death (Il-2), ... I notice that the real German nicknames were rather neutral "Tommies", "Indianen", ...

But again, I'm not sure about all nicknames, just most of them. So perhaps the Canadians were indeed called the Red Devils. 
Kris


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## Emac44 (Apr 3, 2007)

Civettone said:


> I am not sure but my opinion is that 90% of all nicknames were false.
> I can imagine one or another German general referring to the Australians at Tobruk but I'm confident these names were not very common.
> I'm especially thinking of the Fork-Tailed Devil (P-38), the Whispering Death (Il-2), ... I notice that the real German nicknames were rather neutral "Tommies", "Indianen", ...
> 
> ...



That nickname for the British Civ comes from the Name Tommy Atkins. Just like Aussies are called Diggers or ANZACs or Bronzed ANZACs. Those are common names and well in use. But individual Units Brigades Battlions Regiments etc earn their nicknames due to either some battle or battle honour they particpated in not all of it is false Civ or legend. 6th Division 2nd AIF was called the Rats of Tobruk by the Germans because the Aussies defending Tobruk buried into caves and rock formations like rats hence the name when defending Tobruk. But it back fired on the Germans they failed to see the Aussies took it as a badge of honour and the Aussies being true blue fair um Diggers said **** them. Let them try and take Tobruk. they never took Tobruk whilst the Aussies were defending it. 

As for our Canadian Allies in WW2 can understand them getting pissed off with the Germans. They did with the Japanese as well. Those Canadians come from same blood line as us Aussies, English Scot Irish and Welsh. Any way what is in a nick name true or false. Hats of to the Canadians, Great soldiers and great Allies

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## Civettone (Apr 4, 2007)

Of course, hats of to those brave men!!

I was just saying that many (but not all) nicknames were reversed after the war. The allies nicknamed their own units and equipment and after the war translated it to German as if the Germans came up with it. I have my doubts about the German soldiers calling them the Rats of Tobruk as there would not have been communication between the forces. My personal assumption is that the German newspapers/propaganda nicknamed those Australians "Ratten" as they - like you said - were dug in. And I can very well assume that the Australians took pride in what was originally a degrading comment, and used it to boost moral. 

On a side-note where there any German units which received nicknames by the allies?
Kris


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## Njaco (Apr 5, 2007)

How about JG 26 "Abbeville Boys"?


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## Maestro (Apr 6, 2007)

Why did they got such a nickname ?


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## Civettone (Apr 6, 2007)

Njaco, good one! 
I never really thought about it. The only time I remember reading it was from Galland's own words. I don't know if he used it post-war because he liked it, or that he used it because he got word that the British media were calling his unit the Abbeville boys.

Do you know if the British forces (RAF I suppose) also refered to his unit as the Abbeville Boys??
Kris

edit: Found this on Wikipedia:
_The Abbeville boys
Although JG 26 was not known by specific name to their opponents, JG 26 built a fearsome reputation among Allied aircrews. The skill and determination of the Luftwaffe fighter units when attacking USAAF bomber formations led the Allied bomber crews to become wary whenever any yellow-nosed Bf 109 or Fw 190 aircraft attacked them. Because some elements of the unit was based in Abbeville-Ducat the Allies dubbed any yellow-nosed Bf 109 or Fw 190 aircraft who aggressively and effectively attacked them the nickname The Abbeville Boys and perceived them as the Luftwaffe's special hand-picked elite group of aces, although from the Luftwaffe's perspective they were just another -albeit highly experienced and effective- fighter Geschwader._


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## Njaco (Apr 8, 2007)

Another, although not a unit, I think would be Erwin Rommel, "The Desert Fox" which I believe the Allies gave him that name and it was during the war that it was used.

Maybe close but no cigar


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## Njaco (Apr 8, 2007)

> Do you know if the British forces (RAF I suppose) also refered to his unit as the Abbeville Boys??



I'm not sure but I believe it was American aircrew that called them that shortly after arriving in the ETO. The RAF knew of the Yellow-nosed devils (my words) but it may have took the Americans to name them.

Gonna check the JG 26 website and Caldwells books.


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## Civettone (Apr 8, 2007)

I looked up on it and it seems JG 26 (Galland's unit) was based in Abbeville until February 1941. So it cannot be that the Americans called Galland's unit the Abbeville boys.

Kris


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## Njaco (Apr 8, 2007)

II./JG 26 was stationed at Abbeville from Dec. 41 to Jan. 43 ..

see
http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/jg26/iigruppe.htm
from 
J A G D G E S C H W A D E R 26 "SCHLAGETER"

You're right about the other Gruppen...left by end of 1941

Of course since other Gruppen of the JG were stationed nearby somewhat I think the Allies could have been confused as to where they originated.
At the time of their being named I'll bet the Allies figured any German fighter encountered with yellow noses was from JG 26.


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## Civettone (Apr 9, 2007)

Njaco, you're right. The unit returned in December after they left in February. 
Good call!

Kris


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## Njaco (Apr 9, 2007)

Hey Wow! I finally got something right!! Sometimes I feel so lost.......


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## Civettone (Apr 9, 2007)

Kris


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## Emac44 (Apr 9, 2007)

Civettone said:


> Of course, hats of to those brave men!!
> 
> I was just saying that many (but not all) nicknames were reversed after the war. The allies nicknamed their own units and equipment and after the war translated it to German as if the Germans came up with it. I have my doubts about the German soldiers calling them the Rats of Tobruk as there would not have been communication between the forces. My personal assumption is that the German newspapers/propaganda nicknamed those Australians "Ratten" as they - like you said - were dug in. And I can very well assume that the Australians took pride in what was originally a degrading comment, and used it to boost moral.
> 
> ...



If you are asking if the Aussies nicknamed the German troops in North Africa. It would possibley be one not being abled to mentioned in polite company and with women and children present hahaha


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## Njaco (Apr 10, 2007)




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## Njaco (Apr 11, 2007)

Possibly found another one.

the paratroopers of 1.Fallschirmjaeger Division in the ruins of Monte Cassino were known as the "Green Devils". Now I don't know if this was a German nickname or one given by the Allies. Maybe someone can help.


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## Civettone (Apr 12, 2007)

The Green Devils was the nickname for ALL German Fallschirmjäger. Their march song was called "Wir sind die Grüne Teufel". 
DAL VOLTURNO A CASSINO

Kris


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## Njaco (Apr 12, 2007)

Thanks Cive, I've mostly kept up with the LW and not too familiar with groundforces.


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## 102first_hussars (Apr 19, 2007)

pbfoot said:


> I think the PPCLI are that regiment I'm not sure about the prisoners possibly they got the reputation in Ortona. Ortona was a house to house fight that lasted 7 days over Xmas 43 against the 90th Pamzer grenadiers and the and the 1st FSJ paratroopers . They rewrote the Brit manual on house to house clearing.



I do know that the German Paratroopers had a reputation for not surrendering, so its likely that the boys of "little Stalingrad" reputation of "not taking prisoners" might be slightly tainted


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## Lucky13 (Apr 20, 2007)

Wasn't the German paras nicknamed The Green Devils? I remember reading it somewhere, but where??

LMFAO! Just read what you've written above......!!!


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## Civettone (Apr 20, 2007)

Kris


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## Hunt (Mar 17, 2010)

MY FATHER WAS STUART HUNT AN ORGINAL MEMBER OF THE 1ST SPECICAL SERVICE FORCES THERE MOTO WAS KILL THEM ALL hE'D DIED ALMOST 2 YEARS AGO BUT I WAS PRIVILEDGED TO HAVE HIM FOR 51 YEARS AND THIS WAR WAS TRULY HIS FAVORITE SUBJECT. THE TITTLE MORE CAME FROM CARDS THEY LEFT ON DEAD GERMANS BEHIND LINES SPOOKING EVERYONE

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## michaelmaltby (Mar 17, 2010)

"... house to house clearing.." 

Mousing - please. .

MM


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## lancet11 (Dec 13, 2010)

actuallly most of you are correct with the para trooper thing they were called that because they could get to where ever the germans were and its red because our flag would stand out a little. 


also there was another main nick name hitler said himself in one of his speeches referring to canadian as stormtroopers because we moved so fast and the best.

so now you guys learnt some history spread it around


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## Airframes (Dec 14, 2010)

I know this is an old thread, but the nickname of 'Red Devils', when associated with British Airborne Forces, originated from the Germans in North Africa (as did the Parachute Regiment battle cry of 'Whoa Mohammed'), and they were also called the 'Soldiers (or Devils) with tails). The former was due to the Red Beret of the Regiment, and the latter due to the loose, flapping, crutch 'strap' of the Dennison smock worn by Paras. (The Red Devils name has remained, as the official title of the Parachute Display Team of the Parachute Regiment.)
The nickname came about due to the tenacity of the airborne troops, for the whom the Germans had a high regard, reinforced after Arnhem.


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## Maestro (Dec 15, 2010)

Thanks for the info.


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## bobbysocks (Dec 19, 2010)

a lot of the nic names probably came from the media. they have to have a flair for the dramatic to make good copy. so to identify a specific aversary just makes sense to give them a name. the 357th FG was known as the Yoxford Boys. they, however, were not based at yoxford at all but in leiston. shortly after they arrived in england and set up their base the german radio personality and british traitor lord haw haw focused one of his broadcasts on them. it was he that dubbed them with this name...and it stuck. i am sure they werent the only ones to get thier monikers that way.


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## pbfoot (Dec 19, 2010)

The only Regiment in canada that has a nickname even close is the Royal Winnipeg Rifles which were nicknamed the Black Devils but I found this one for the RCR (Royal Candian Regiment) Retards Carrying Rifles


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## slebo (Jul 30, 2013)

Maestro said:


> Hi.
> 
> I heard a weird rumour lately. I heard that German troops were nicknaming Canadian troops the "Red Devils" during WWII because they had a reputation for not taking any prisoners.
> 
> Is that true ? Anyone can confirm that rumour ?


 
Hi,

Actually, i was just searching to get more information about that regiment. When i was younger my father told me about my uncle being in that regiment. Thay were actually called "Devil Red Cross Regiment". What i was told is that the Red Cross Regiment went under attack when those regiment were not supposed to be attack under some treatee that i don't know about. That same red cross regiment just lost it and became the "Devil Red Cross Regiment" taking revange and not taking any prisonners with them.

That's the story I was told by my father. My uncle, after WW2 was pretty messed up and after a while stopped talking to anyone (family, friends, just anyone). He stayed at his home and didn't do much until he died at over 90 years old.


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## fubar57 (Jul 30, 2013)

Old thread but hey, I didn't dig it up. As much as I hate wikipedia, this may have been who Maestro was referring to...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_Brigade

Geo


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## slebo (Jul 30, 2013)

fubar57 said:


> Old thread but hey, I didn't dig it up. As much as I hate wikipedia, this may have been who Maestro was referring to...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_Brigade
> 
> Geo


 
Ya i read that info earlier. Could be what he was referring to.

Those are 2 complitely different regiments. That's all the information he told me at the time about my uncle's red cross regiment. He told me a couple stories that his brother had told him before keeping to himself, but about that red cross regiment, that's all I remember him telling me. I which my father was still alive to ask him about it.


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## stona (Aug 3, 2013)

And "house clearance" as someone called it is now called FISHING by the British. "Fighting In Someone's House".
Steve


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## fastmongrel (Aug 3, 2013)

When I did my training House Clearance was called iirc Mouseholing.


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## pattle (Aug 4, 2013)

I remember first reading (with surprise) about the Canadians killing surrendering German troops in a Sven Hassell book when I was a teenager, I'm pretty sure the book was liquidate Paris. A lot of mystery and controversy still surrounds Sven Hassell, his war record and his books which I am not interested in arguing about on here. Basically Hassell's books were a mixture of fact and fiction and it is up to the reader how much of them they believe, even though Sven Hassell was a veteran his books are after all novels and not memoirs and it is up to the individual and nobody else whether they enjoy them or not.
Having said that, these accusations interested me enough for me to remember them all this time, and I have heard since on a number of occasions that such things did take place although it is not something that I have found any solid information on. 
If the killing of surrendering German troops by Canadians actually took place in Normandy then either it was deliberately forgotten about or happened on isolated occassions. I am pretty sure the dark truth is that there were times when both sides refused to take prisoners, either because they couldn't or just wouldn't.


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## razor1uk (Aug 4, 2013)

The nickname 'Storm Troopers' isn't Hitlers, he reused/borrowed it; it relates to the Canadians or some of there forces who fourght hard in trenches of WW1, at Paschendael I think amongst other locations, where they excelling in trench clearences, fighting hand to hand in improvised close combat with tenacity and vigour to a man, driving off over whelming enemy attacks, and for operating in a slightly different manner to the British .

I'm sure some of the Canadian forum members will know better and correct me here

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## stona (Aug 5, 2013)

pattle said:


> If the killing of surrendering German troops by Canadians actually took place in Normandy then either it was deliberately forgotten about or happened on isolated occassions. I am pretty sure the dark truth is that there were times when both sides refused to take prisoners, either because they couldn't or just wouldn't.



It did. It's something that was done by all sides. Solid information? there are many first hand accounts. For example I have read some recently, by the perpetrators, of the killing of captured and wounded German paratroopers on Crete.
A man surrendering is giving himself up to the very people he has likely just been trying to kill. The first few minutes are critical. If the prisoner survives these his chances of longer term survival increase exponentially.
Cheers
Steve

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## pattle (Aug 5, 2013)

stona said:


> It did. It's something that was done by all sides. Solid information? there are many first hand accounts. For example I have read some recently, by the perpetrators, of the killing of captured and wounded German paratroopers on Crete.
> A man surrendering is giving himself up to the very people he has likely just been trying to kill. The first few minutes are critical. If the prisoner survives these his chances of longer term survival increase exponentially.
> Cheers
> Steve


Could you please let me know where you read this about Crete? it is not that I doubt you it is only that I have a particularly strong interest in Crete.
I have more often heard of the killing of captured and wounded German troops by Cretan civilians and later the Andartes SOE than by regular Commonwealth troops. I am aware that in places when the German paras first landed the Commonwealth troops went through the olive groves and orchards as quickly as they could killing German paras suspended from trees and not taking prisoners because there was nobody to take them back behind the lines. I did see a documentary where a veteran talked of this and I was ed by his proud and gloating attitude, the harsh reality may have been that there was no other option than to do this but there is no need to be proud of it.


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## pattle (Aug 5, 2013)

razor1uk said:


> The nickname 'Storm Troopers' isn't Hitlers, he reused/borrowed it; it relates to the Canadians or some of there forces who fourght hard in trenches of WW1, at Paschendael I think amongst other locations, where they excelling in trench clearences, fighting hand to hand in improvised close combat with tenacity and vigour to a man, driving off over whelming enemy attacks, and for operating in a slightly different manner to the British .
> 
> I'm sure some of the Canadian forum members will know better and correct me here



I don't know that much about the First World War or the part played in it by the Canadians but I think it was the Canadians that first introduced the method of sending forward in attack blobs of troops supported by their own machine guns etc under a creeping barrage rather than ranks of slowly moving soldiers shoulder to shoulder. There was also an infamous story of a Canadian soldier being crucified by Germans, it is generally accepted now that this unfortunate Canadian soldier was blown into that position by a artillery shell.


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## stona (Aug 5, 2013)

In Anthony Beevor's book on Crete.

Crete: The Battle And The Resistance by Antony Beevor - Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists

I remember one account from a British officer and one from a Maori soldier off the top of my head. 

Cheers

Steve


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## pattle (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanks, I have read that one but not for a few years.


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## stona (Aug 6, 2013)

pattle said:


> Thanks, I have read that one but not for a few years.



I re-read it recently. My copy is on the way back from Spain.....it's a long story 

Cheers

Steve


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