# Desert P-40 video....it is real



## stona (Apr 22, 2012)

There was a cacophony of denial when some photos of a well preserved P-40,found in the Western desert were published on a Polish site IIRC.
Well,it is genuine.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFe8CsOdoG8_


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9LsK74J_W0_ 

Humble pie for the cynics methinks 

Cheers
Steve


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## Crimea_River (Apr 22, 2012)

Interesting Steve. This is the first I've heard of this. What's the story and what will be the fate of this plane?


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## stona (Apr 22, 2012)

Crimea_River said:


> Interesting Steve. This is the first I've heard of this. What's the story and what will be the fate of this plane?



I don't know that it has been identified yet.
If those videos are anything to go by I fear for the fate of this one.
Cheers
Steve


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Apr 22, 2012)

In the description they claim it's a Spitfire, but you can tell rather easily it's a P-40.


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## Airframes (Apr 22, 2012)

Very interesting indeed! What a find - makes you think what else might be out in the wilderness. I remember a friend's bother, back in the late 1960s, visiting a point in the desert where there were a number of knocked-out German tanks -no idea what happened to them, might still be there.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 22, 2012)

It's entirely possible, remember "Lady Be Good" was discovered (with it's crew) in the desert after being lost for decades...and an episode of "Globe Trekker" showed a vast array of WWII British vehicles still rotting in the middle of the desert, if I remember right, somewhere between Tunisia and Libya.


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## Crimea_River (Apr 22, 2012)

Shifting sands probably keep things interesting as well.


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## T Bolt (Apr 23, 2012)

Couldn't hear the audio on this computer, but it's defiantly a P-40E


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## Airframes (Apr 23, 2012)

And in RAF markings. Just realized - the canopy was closed, which is a touch unusual if belly-landed and the pilot walked away. Is it possible that the pilot's remains are still in the cockpit? Looked like a successful, but somewhat rough landing, judging by the prop being separated. As there was ammunition still in the bays, it obviously hadn't been touched, let alone any salvage attempt made, at the time of the incident.
Hope we are able to learn more in the fullness of time.


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## Capt. Vick (Apr 23, 2012)

Kind of disheartening to see people climbing all over it like a pile of junk. It should have been treated like the time capsule that it is. I think we are witnessing it's rapid destruction...


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## Airframes (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm afraid to say you're probably right. Not wishing to speculate, but, apart from being of great historic interest, and indeed a 'time capsule', what if it is one of Marseilles' victims? Even more important after 70 years of isolation.


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## Capt. Vick (Apr 24, 2012)

Some startling pictures here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/114682...authkey=Gv1sRgCKjxkt6rkNTFKg&feat=directlink#

Battery made in Australian = Aussie fighter squadron?


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## T Bolt (Apr 24, 2012)

Too bad there wasn't a number that could be traced. That shot of the control panel confirms it's an "E" model


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## phas3e (Apr 24, 2012)

You can just make out the HS of 260Sqn


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## Capt. Vick (Apr 25, 2012)

You have better eye sight than i do. Was that an RAAF squadron?


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## stona (Apr 25, 2012)

260 Sqn. was an RAF squadron.
Cheers 
Steve


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## stona (Apr 25, 2012)

Airframes said:


> And in RAF markings. Just realized - the canopy was closed, which is a touch unusual if belly-landed and the pilot walked away.


Terry McGrady,who knows a thing or two about these aircraft and their operations, posted this on Britmodeller regarding a _possible_ candidate.

"On 28th June 1942 ET574 piloted by Flt Sgt D.C.H. Copping 785025 left 260 to fly to an RSU. The A/C flew with the U/C locked down owing to damage.
Flt Sgt Copping set the wrong course and was thought to have crashed in the Desert owing to fuel exhaustion . FLt Sgt Copping listed as missing on this day .
I'm not saying that this was the A/C concerned , but it MIGHT have been"

Cheers
Steve


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## Capt. Vick (Apr 25, 2012)

Oh God what a horrible thought of him lost in the desert to die...


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## vikingBerserker (Apr 25, 2012)

I agree, tragic on both ends.


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## claidemore (Apr 26, 2012)

I think I can see the S, and kinda sorta can see the H in front of it, (very faint), but....the letter behind the roundel looks an awful lot like a B, to me. 
There was an HSB coded P40 that was flown by James "Stocky" Edwards. Not saying this one was his, or flown by him, but it might be another clue.


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## A4K (Apr 26, 2012)

Would agree there Claidemore - certainly looks like HS-B to me.


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## Crimea_River (Apr 26, 2012)

phas3e said:


> You can just make out the HS of 260Sqn



I can maybe make out a B but no way I see an HS. Edward's rig was a Kittyhaw MkIII with a fillet tail, unlike this one, and as far as I know, he did not crash it.


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## T Bolt (Apr 26, 2012)

I don't think it's the same aircraft Andy. That's a P-40K not an E and the codes look a lot smaller than the ones on the wreck to me.


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## claidemore (Apr 26, 2012)

The wreck has the old style roundel, with the large yellow circle, whereas all the wartime photos I have seen of HSB have the later version of the roundel. Note that the exhaust stubs are different as well. 
Squadron codes like HSB would not be relegated to only one aircraft, after this E model was lost they would have used it on subsequent replacements.


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## pbfoot (Apr 27, 2012)

good link with lots of pics no vid about HSB
Original Kittyhawk HS-B Discovered > Vintage Wings of Canada


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## Crimea_River (Apr 27, 2012)

Excellent find Neil!


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## Airframes (Apr 27, 2012)

Good stuff Neil. I wonder if any further search has been made close to the aircraft, to check for human remains.


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## MIflyer (May 12, 2012)

Here's the news article:

The discovery of the Curtiss P-40 Kittyhawk in the Sahara Desert was described by one military historian as "the aviation equivalent of Tutankhamun's Tomb."
A remarkably well-preserved fighter plane that crashed in the Sahara Desert during World War II has been found 70 years later, shedding new light on the pilot's struggle to survive.
The American-made Curtiss P-40 Kittyhawk was discovered by a Polish oil worker, Jakub Perka, who was exploring the desert in Egypt, The Telegraph newspaper reported. It was about 200 miles from the nearest town.
It is believed that the pilot, Dennis Copping, 24, ran into trouble while flying in 1942, but still managed to land the plane on the sands, the paper said.
Military historian Andy Saunders said that the British flight sergeant "must have survived the crash" because a photograph of the plane showed a parachute had been put up on the side of the plane, apparently as a form of shelter, The Telegraph reported.
"The radio and batteries were out of the plane and it looks like he tried to get it working. If he died at the side of the plane his remains would have been found," Saunders added. "Once he had crashed there, nobody was going to come and get him. It is more likely he tried to walk out of the desert, but ended up walking to his death. It is too hideous to contemplate."
He said the discovery was "the aviation equivalent of Tutankhamun's Tomb."
Air enthusiasts excited 
The Vintage Wings of Canada website speculated that the plane had a mechanical problem, ran out of fuel or that the pilot simply got lost.
The website said there seemed to be a growing consensus that the plane's serial number was ET 574, based on what could be made out from photographs. If this is confirmed, the website said it was possible that Canadian flying ace James "Stocky" Edwards had previously flown the fighter.
"To say we, at Vintage Wings, are excited by this find in an understatement," the website said.
It expressed concern the plane had been "seriously vandalized -- a travesty the whole aviation world seems unable to stop."
Parades commemorate Soviet victory in World War II 
Michael Creane, of the Royal Air Force Museum in London, U.K., told NBC News that it was "incredible" the plane had not been submerged by the shifting sands of the desert.
He said they were "hell bent" on bringing the aircraft to the museum, although he said there were "lots of hoops to jump through."

Good photos are available at: 

Picasa Web Albums - Jakub Perka - zdj_samolot 

One photo of a gun compartment cover shows it was an 87A-3, or a P-40E as we would say.


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## CharlesBronson (May 12, 2012)

Capt. Vick said:


> Kind of disheartening to see people climbing all over it like a pile of junk. It should have been treated like the time capsule that it is. I think we are witnessing it's rapid destruction...



I was about to post the same, lack of culture on there.


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## MIflyer (May 13, 2012)

Excellent article at:

My Uncle Denis, pilot of the plane time forgot: First pictures of the man who crash-landed in his plane in the Sahara and then walked off across the sands to his death | Mail Online


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## Njaco (May 13, 2012)

Wow, excellent story and pics! Thanks for the link flyer!


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## wheelsup_cavu (May 13, 2012)

Thanks for the link Flyer.  


Wheels


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## Gnomey (May 14, 2012)

Very cool find! Thanks for the links and pics.


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## Rogi (May 29, 2012)

I havn't seen this post around so I'll post it here if it is around please someone link the news to me  

World War II Airplane, Kittyhawk P-40, Found In Egyptian Desert 70 Years After Crashing (PHOTOS, VIDEO)

If I didn't post the HTML properly let me know, amazing after 70 years they found it  I've also heard about graveyards of jeeps that the army had left behind, I wonder if there still out there in the desert 

This would make a amazing diorama  and looks like the Polish gentleman that found it was looking out for us modelers cause he took a ton of pictures 

Igor


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## Njaco (May 29, 2012)

Yup its in the video section. I'll move this thread there.


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## Capt. Vick (May 30, 2012)

Received the latest issue of Aeroplane or FlyPast (never can remember which is which) and sadly the vandalism has started. They state that the bead site and some instruments have been removed and that some of the plexi-glass has been smashed. Sad, but I figured...


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## Rogi (May 30, 2012)

They should recover it, why let it rot in the desert now ?


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## Airframes (May 30, 2012)

Depends who 'they' are. 
Recovering a wreck in a temperate climate, with reasonable access and roads is difficult and costly enough. Multiply that by lots to do the same from the Sahara. And of course, 'they' have to be organised yet, as it seems it was a oil company survey team who discovered it, not a group of aviation archaeologists/enthusiasts.
I fear that, by the time any group gets organised, funded and on the way (if at all), that P-40 will be more of a P- not much left.


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## Crimea_River (Jun 28, 2012)

Update. A thread on this over at TOCH has remained reasonably active and a team appears to have recently discovered the possible remains of the pilot, F/Sgt Dennis Copping who was thought to be ferrying this aircraft to a repair station when he belly landed it.

http://www.qattara.it/versione%20in%20arabo/TESTO%20_1_.pdf


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## stona (Feb 28, 2014)

I saw recently in another thread, which I can't find now, speculation about the fate of this P-40 including conjecture that the Egyptians were making unacceptable demands for it's purchase by the British.

In fact the Royal Air Force Museum has the P-40 in secure storage (whatever that means) and has arranged to swop it for one of its Spitfires.

The RAFM has announced that Spitfire PK664 is no longer in its custody and left the RAFM Reserve Collection in February 2013. It could be that this aircraft is that to be exchanged, but that is conjecture on my part.

Here is an 'interesting' planning application made by the RAFM to its local authority......I/13/10705 | Change of Use From Exhibition Space to Office and Educational Facilities on the Upper Gallery and Removal of Cinema for New Kittyhawk Display | Royal Air Force Museum, Grahame Park Way, London, NW9 5LL

There is on going controversy over the human remains found in the vicinity of the crash site. These have still not been identified and it is still not known (as far as I know) whether these are indeed those of Copping or not. A disgraceful situation.

Cheers

Steve


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## Capt. Vick (Feb 28, 2014)

Great update!


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## vikingBerserker (Feb 28, 2014)

I agree, THANKS!


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