# Which plane had the most machine guns for attack?



## Geruse (Jan 31, 2006)

Been lurking for a while. Thought I'd pop my head in and say hi. 

Which plane do you think had the most guns that could be used to attack an opponent or ground targets?

Wasn't there a Hurricane that had 12 machine guns?


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## Gnomey (Jan 31, 2006)

Yes the Hurricane MKIIB had 12 .303" machine guns. I am pretty sure one of the American twin engined bombers (B-25, B-26, A-26, A-20) carried 12 .50" machine guns but don't quote me on that.

Welcome to the forum.


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## evangilder (Jan 31, 2006)

There were B-25s that had 8 .50 cals in the nose, 4 more in blisters on the sides of the fuselage (2 on each side), and the top turret. So you could conceivably have 14 x .50 cals pointed at the enemy in a strafing attack.


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## MacArther (Jan 31, 2006)

Ouch, maybe they should point that firepower at ships, not people. Might not be too humane to be hit by 14 50 cals. Imagine the first guy to be hit getting all 14 on him (shudder). Then again, it would be a great deterant from moving Jerries on open roads. 
PS welcome, and good post.


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## evangilder (Jan 31, 2006)

Most of those outfitted that way were used in the Pacific against ships. Seems a bit overkill to go after people with that much. But in a troop concentration, highly effective.


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## R988 (Jan 31, 2006)

B-25 was highly effective against shipping, they also had that version with the artillery gun 75mm or something? Now that would rip it apart


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## Hunter368 (Jan 31, 2006)

I have seen the results of the B25 attack in photos close up and it is scaryyyyyyy stuff. It was perhaps the scariest plane to be strafed by in the pacific.


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## Lunatic (Jan 31, 2006)

There was a version of the A-26 that carried 20 x .50's, I believe 18 of them could be aimed to the front for ground attack. As far as I know this was the most guns for strafing of any WWII plane.

=S=

Lunatic


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## Hunter368 (Jan 31, 2006)

Oh my


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## Gnomey (Jan 31, 2006)

18 .50's that would do some damage!


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## evangilder (Jan 31, 2006)

R988 said:


> B-25 was highly effective against shipping, they also had that version with the artillery gun 75mm or something? Now that would rip it apart



Yes there were B-25s with the 75mm cannon on board. But because they had to be hand loaded they had a low rate of fire. But when they hit, they would do some serious damage. We have a round for that gun in the museum made of wood that was used for loader practice. It is huge and heavy. I will see if I can get a pic of it to post in the next couple of weeks.


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## Magister (Jan 31, 2006)

Lunatic said, _"There was a version of the A-26 that carried 20 x .50's, I believe 18 of them could be aimed to the front for ground attack. As far as I know this was the most guns for strafing of any WWII plane."_

It was 16 .50's. Eight packed into the nose, six in the wings (three in each wing) and two in the top turret that could be locked forward and fired by the pilot.

Pretty devastating.


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## lesofprimus (Jan 31, 2006)

B-25 shots...


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## Glider (Jan 31, 2006)

The Beaufighter must run it a close second. 4 x 20 and 4 x HMG equal to 16 x HMG.


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## Gnomey (Jan 31, 2006)

Good pics Les! I would say it would Glider.


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## Lunatic (Feb 1, 2006)

Magister said:


> Lunatic said, _"There was a version of the A-26 that carried 20 x .50's, I believe 18 of them could be aimed to the front for ground attack. As far as I know this was the most guns for strafing of any WWII plane."_
> 
> It was 16 .50's. Eight packed into the nose, six in the wings (three in each wing) and two in the top turret that could be locked forward and fired by the pilot.
> 
> Pretty devastating.



There was another variant that had 8 guns mounted in underwing pods, 8 in the nose, and the top turret could be locked forward - which is 18. The version you describe was a later superior variant with the wing guns internalized.


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## Magister (Feb 1, 2006)

Don't think so. The variant you are referring to had only six forwrad firing guns as opposed to the eight on the A-26B-50-DL and later series so adding two more under the wings still gives you just 16. You said 18 could be brought to bear on a target.

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_us/a26-03.html
"A new all-purpose nose was installed beginning with the A-26B-10-DL. Initially, the USAAF was undecided about what armament this version should carry. As originally planned, it was expected that the A-26B would be fitted with a variety of alternate solid nose sections, and that one deemed to be the best would be selected. Options that were tested on early A-26Bs included one 75-mm cannon to starboard and two 0.50-inch machine guns to port; one 75-mm cannon to starboard and one 37-mm cannon to port; two 37-mm cannon with one on each side of the nose; one 37-mm cannon to starboard and two 0.50-inch machine guns to port; four 0.50-inch guns starboard and one 37-mm cannon to port; or four 0.50-inch guns to starboard and two 0.50-in guns to port. *Eventually at the end of 1944, the USAAF finally made up its mind and decided that the solid-nosed A-26B would have six machine guns with 400 rounds per gun. The guns in the two turrets had 500 rounds each.*

*Beginning with the A-26B-15, the forward-firing armament could be supplemented by eight 0.50-inch guns mounted in four twin packages underneath the outer wing panels. *


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## Magister (Feb 1, 2006)

Anyway you cut it, the A-26 was fearsome.
*
Specification of Douglas A-26B-15-DL Invader*:

Powerplant:
Two Pratt Whitney R-2800-27 or -71 air-cooled radials, each rated at 2000 hp for takeoff and 1600 hp at 13,500 feet.
Performance:
Maximum speed 355 mph at 15,000 feet. Cruising speed 284 mph. An altitude of 10,000 feet could be attained in 8.1 minutes. Service ceiling 22,100 feet. Normal range 1400 miles, maximum range 3200 miles.
Dimensions:
Wingspan 70 feet 0 inches, length 50 feet 0 inches, height 18 feet 6 inches, wing area 540 square feet.
Weights:
22,370 pounds empty, 27,600 pounds loaded, 35,000 pounds maximum.
Armament:
Six forward-firing 0.50-inch machine guns in nose. Forward-firing armament could be supplemented by eight 0.50-inch guns mounted in four-gun twin packages mounted underneath the outer wing panels. Two 0.50-inch machine guns in remotely-controlled dorsal turret. Two 0.50-inch machine guns in remotely-controlled ventral turret. An internal bomb load of 4000 pounds could be carried. Maximum total bomb load of 6000 pounds. 

------------------------------------------------------------------

*Specification of Douglas A-26B-60-DL Invader*:

Powerplant:
Two Pratt Whitney R-2800-79 air-cooled radials, each rated at 2000 hp for takeoff, 2350 hp with water injection.
Performance:
Maximum speed 355 mph at 15,000 feet. Cruising speed 284 mph. An altitude of 10,000 feet could be attained in 8.1 minutes. Service ceiling 22,100 feet. Normal range 1400 miles, maximum range 3200 miles.
Dimensions:
Wingspan 70 feet 0 inches, length 50 feet 8 inches, height 18 feet 6 inches, wing area 540 square feet.
Weights:
22,362 pounds empty, 26,000 pounds loaded, 41,800 pounds maximum.
Armament:
Eight forward-firing 0.50-inch machine guns in nose. Three 0.50-inch machine guns mounted in each of the outer wing panels. Two 0.50-inch machine guns in remotely-controlled dorsal turret. Two 0.50-inch machine guns in remotely-controlled ventral turret. An internal bomb load of 4000 pounds could be carried. Maximum total bomb load of 6000 pounds.


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## Magister (Feb 1, 2006)

You can see the eight nose mounted guns and the three guns mounted in the right wing. You will not find any pictures of an eight gun nose mounting along with two dual .50 packs under each wing. With the dorsal trurret locked forward, that's 16 guns on target. 

At a cyclic rate of 750rpm, that's 200 rounds per second! If you were in a barge or small cargo vessel, you would literally be shredded.


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## Lunatic (Feb 1, 2006)

You appear to be correct. I'd not realized the 8 gun nose was never paired with the quad gun packs. Serves me right for not looking it up.

One point - cyclic rate of fire for the .50 M2 Lightweight Aircraft gun was 750-850 rpm, with 800 being typical. 750 is usually the quoted figure, but if you check the rps figures for various planes, you will find the 6 gun fighters are rated at 80 rps = 4800 rpm / six guns = 800 rpm per gun. The only plane I've ever seen rps figures for which come to 750 rpm is the P-47 which is rated at 100 rps.

Assumedly the RoF of the P-47 was tuned down because it had more guns, so this might apply to the A26. But my guess is that in the field they were all tuned the same (which involves the headspacing adjustment) so 800 rpm is the proper figure.

=S=

Lunatic


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## Gnomey (Feb 1, 2006)

Good stuff, here is another view of the front of the A-26B clearly showing the 8 guns in the nose and the 3 in each wing. 8)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 4, 2006)

Ive always liked the A-26. To me she was fierce and sexy. Good plane overall.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 4, 2006)

i agree she's a good plane but i don't really like the american attack/mediums like that...ugly fuckers.........


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 4, 2006)

And you comparing them to what?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 4, 2006)

all british planes........


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 4, 2006)

Ha Ha Ha!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 4, 2006)

well you gotta admit we do make the world's best looking aircraft


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## Aggie08 (Feb 4, 2006)

Why didn't the US experiment with 20mm on the b-25 and a-20? Pack a bigger punch and less are needed. Gotta say though, it would be hard to turn down so many oodles of .50s....


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## Aggie08 (Feb 4, 2006)

Haha lanc alot of people would agree that those medium bombers/attack are some of the best looking planes. I think so, anyways. Seriously what looks better than a fully loaded b-25 bristling with more .50's than 5 mustangs?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 4, 2006)

i think that for strafing soft targets, which you're gonna get more of in the pacific (apart from ships, obviously) the weight of fire provided by all the .50s was more worthwile.........


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 5, 2006)

The .50 was worthwile for most targets except heavy targets like tanks and what not.


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 5, 2006)

Aggie08 said:


> Haha lanc alot of people would agree that those medium bombers/attack are some of the best looking planes. I think so, anyways. Seriously what looks better than a fully loaded b-25 bristling with more .50's than 5 mustangs?



An A-26 with a similar layout


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## Lunatic (Feb 6, 2006)

Aggie08 said:


> Why didn't the US experiment with 20mm on the b-25 and a-20? Pack a bigger punch and less are needed. Gotta say though, it would be hard to turn down so many oodles of .50s....



Most ground targets that were succeptable to 20mm fire were succeptable to .50 fire. The .50's offered 3 times the reliabiliity and nearly twice the ammo of the Hispano. Carrying more .50's meant a wider strafe area too.

The exception was Japanese pill boxes in the PTO, which were specifically made just tough enough to hold up against .50 fire, which is why the USN and USMC wanted the 20mm guns for ground attack.

=S=

Lunatic


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## Aggie08 (Feb 7, 2006)

Interesting...


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## Aggie08 (Feb 7, 2006)

> An A-26 with a similar layout



True, true


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## Smokey (Feb 7, 2006)

http://www.shockwaveproductions.net/firepower/manual/do217.htm

BF 110G night fighter

Armament:
Nose: Fixed firing forward
Two 30mm Mk 108 Cannon with 135 rounds per gun
Two 20mm MG 151 Cannon with 300 rounds(port) and 350 rounds(starboard)
And
Two 20mm MG 151 Cannon in Shrage Musik Installation (Firing Obliquely forward)
Or
Two 7.92mm MG 81 in rear cockpit

Optional:
Waffenwanne 151Z ventral tray housing two forward firing 20mm MG 151 cannon

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/bf110g.html


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## Hunter368 (Feb 7, 2006)

Very nice


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## mosquitoman (Feb 7, 2006)

Bristol Beaufighter VI: 4x 20mm cannon; 8x .303 machine gun
Not a bad alternative to a Mitchell or Invader


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## wmaxt (Feb 7, 2006)

I once read that a B-25 pilot had bagged 5 Japanese aircraft in flight. Its been years and I haven't seen it again but I've always thought that would be cool if it really happened. They certainly had the fire power, 14 foward, will do a number on any aircraft! 

wmaxt


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## lesofprimus (Feb 7, 2006)

.303 pfffftttt...


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## mosquitoman (Feb 7, 2006)

sorry, got it wrong, 12x 0.303


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