# How a Glass Cockpit is Born



## krieghund (Oct 26, 2010)

This is what i do on my day job;

Before - during - after- and the flight simulator


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## Colin1 (Oct 26, 2010)

Nice indeed
any chance you could knock me one up for my Jane's WWII Fighters sim?
Oh, and how much?


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## Crimea_River (Oct 26, 2010)

Nice to have a job you enjoy and like to share with others.

Unlike me....


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## krieghund (Oct 26, 2010)

Colin1 said:


> Nice indeed
> any chance you could knock me one up for my Jane's WWII Fighters sim?
> Oh, and how much?



Between 7 and 10 mill per cockpit, full CNS/ATM compliant and Hamilton electronic propeller control system.
The extras are 3 EFB's, dual CMA-9000 FMS with CAT III cert GPS,Dual Laseref V, the only C-130's to have an EVS plus Windshear WXR, T2CA, , NVIS, CPDLC -- namely the works


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 26, 2010)

Man, that is so cool!


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## T Bolt (Oct 26, 2010)

VERY cool! Makes mine look kinda sad.


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## RabidAlien (Oct 26, 2010)

7 Mil? Hang on, lemme check my wallet......


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## FLYBOYJ (Oct 26, 2010)

Very cool!

It looks like the Flight Engineer was fired!


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## Matt308 (Oct 26, 2010)

In Saudi Arabia? For whom?


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## krieghund (Oct 26, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> In Saudi Arabia? For whom?



For the RSAF they have 50 in the inventory including a handful of civil registered L-100s which made the design very challenging as all aircraft required the same configuration. This configuration is fully FAA/GACA compliant.


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## Wildcat (Oct 27, 2010)

Very interesting. What are the benefits of having a glass cockpit over an analog one?


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## krieghund (Oct 27, 2010)

Wildcat said:


> Very interesting. What are the benefits of having a glass cockpit over an analog one?



To provide full CNS/ATM compliance say to penetrate European airspace the analog instruments can not display the required nav data and another set of displays has to be added for both TCAS and TAWS. The instrument panel is already very crowded. The pilots workload is pretty high in this cockpit in the picture.

Also the glass adds the all important Engine Instrument Caution Advisory System (EICAS). With the old instrument panel the aircrew had to constantly scan the gauges periodically to spot potential trouble. As the flight is long and crew fatigue sets in a problem can go unnoticed until the Master Caution light comes on but by then corrective action may be too late.

With the EICAS, all the represented indications have limits defined for them (yellow-orange-red for severity)and as a threshold is reached that particular indicator will alert the crew who will then consult their emergency checklist and diagnostic tree via their Electronic Flight Bag (EFB). 

Also on the Nav Displays the WXR, TAWS and TCAS with the NAV Map for the FMS can be displayed for real time situational awareness and the appropriate caution warnings are present for each respective system function.

Another feature present in this particular configuration is the Enhanced Vision System (EVS). It provides a realtime forward looking Infrared picture to a Nav Display or onto a EFB. This is critical when flying in the bad weather in Europe. It will provide a reasonable clear picture ahead when there is nothing but soup out the windscreen. This is a great benefit when the on board systems and pilots are trained to CAT III approaches.

Hope that helps


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## davparlr (Oct 27, 2010)

krieghund said:


> To provide full CNS/ATM compliance say to penetrate European airspace the analog instruments can not display the required nav data and another set of displays has to be added for both TCAS and TAWS. The instrument panel is already very crowded. The pilots workload is pretty high in this cockpit in the picture.



Very important



> Also the glass adds the all important Engine Instrument Caution Advisory System (EICAS). With the old instrument panel the aircrew had to constantly scan the gauges periodically to spot potential trouble. As the flight is long and crew fatigue sets in a problem can go unnoticed until the Master Caution light comes on but by then corrective action may be too late.



Not so important. It is relatively easy to spot noncompliant engine gages on a bank of analog gages. In fact, most EICAS displays mimic analog engine instruments, only a bit more effectively.



> consult their emergency checklist and diagnostic tree via their Electronic Flight Bag (EFB).



Something that cannot be done with old style instruments.



> Also on the Nav Displays the WXR, TAWS and TCAS with the NAV Map for the FMS can be displayed for real time situational awareness and the appropriate caution warnings are present for each respective system function.



Very important for crew workload.



> Another feature present in this particular configuration is the Enhanced Vision System (EVS). It provides a realtime forward looking Infrared picture to a Nav Display or onto a EFB. This is critical when flying in the bad weather in Europe. It will provide a reasonable clear picture ahead when there is nothing but soup out the windscreen. This is a great benefit when the on board systems and pilots are trained to CAT III approaches.



I didn’t see a head-up-display (HUD), but I it would almost be a necessity for Cat III.

Also, some more advantages. Reliability, solid state displays are more reliable (better mean time between failure) than mechanical and require fewer components. Also, a glass cockpit allows upgrades with a minimum of effort. Old style cockpits typically require adding components when added capability is provided, whereas a glass cockpit only requires another “million dollar” software upgrade.

The B-2 cockpit, a 30 year old design, was one of the first, if not the first, fully integrated military cockpit. Compared to the latest cockpits, it is still very busy, but it took the four man B-1 mission and made it into a two man mission. Unlike civilian and airlift cockpits, it also incorporates attack sensors, weapons control and defensive management systems. Most of the clutter is hardware required to operate with total loss of the avionics system. Military simulation evaluations during design reviews showed a low workload.


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## Matt308 (Oct 27, 2010)

I didnt realize that Saudi had 50. Now I see the return on investment.


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## Wildcat (Oct 27, 2010)

Excellent, Thanks for the heads up guys.


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## tomo pauk (Oct 28, 2010)

Very informative - thanks, fellas


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## Gnomey (Oct 28, 2010)

Cool stuff!


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 31, 2010)

The cost of that electronics is frightening , if you modernize today you expend the same money as with a new aircraft 15 or 20 years ago.


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## Matt308 (Oct 31, 2010)

EFBs would be cheaper and get you a significant benefit for the money. Not a full avionics suite, but EFBs and enhanced/synthetic vision would be leaps and bounds more economical for such an airframe. Those are H models, right?


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## krieghund (Nov 5, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> EFBs would be cheaper and get you a significant benefit for the money. Not a full avionics suite, but EFBs and enhanced/synthetic vision would be leaps and bounds more economical for such an airframe. Those are H models, right?



Yes three types modified, H, H-30 L100-30.

The EFB's bring an unmeasurable benefit to the cockpit, for example at the nav station the MCDU for the INS and the radar repeater scope are gone with the EFB replicating the MCDU for the FMS with co-pilot authority acknowledgment (civil requirement) on his MCDU. The EFB will also repeat the Nav and EIDS displays from the instrument panel (the Honeywell radar being displayed there) The EFB is also WIFI so Jeppesen updates can be made when at any airport providing that service. 

The cockpit is totally compliant for GATM out to 2030, the only thing lacking is the HUD but the aircraft are configured for retrofit. A HUD system is over $1M per cockpit and it was decided to invest into the Hamilton-Electronic Propeller Control System.

I have go into the sandbox tomorrow to accept the next two completed aircraft, by the end of the year we should have 8 out the door from contract start Oct 2008. Let's see Boeing's AMP has 3? when did it start (2002?) and how much does it cost$$$$? That's what happens when a company is so big it can't get out of its own way.


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 5, 2010)

Ain't that the truth!


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## Matt308 (Nov 5, 2010)

krieghund said:


> .
> 
> The cockpit is totally compliant for GATM out to 2030, the only thing lacking is the HUD but the aircraft are configured for retrofit. A HUD system is over $1M per cockpit and it was decided to invest into the Hamilton-Electronic Propeller Control System.
> .



How in the hell can use of an EFB used as primary or secondary instruments for regulatory credit be GATM compliant? The USAF SPOs have never in the past wanted to deviate from civil regulations for anything other than mission equipment. I have to assume you are using the term GATM in a very generic sense of upgrading any military aircraft to civil standards and not referring to the actual US GATM program.


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## krieghund (Nov 6, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> How in the hell can use of an EFB used as primary or secondary instruments for regulatory credit be GATM compliant? The USAF SPOs have never in the past wanted to deviate from civil regulations for anything other than mission equipment. I have to assume you are using the term GATM in a very generic sense of upgrading any military aircraft to civil standards and not referring to the actual US GATM program.



Ok lets just keep to the L-100 for the time being as ours is civil certified. For normal L-100 flight ops the navigator position is not used however the customer elects from time to time to utilize the nav station so it is populated with the intercomm control panel, oxygen control, an UTC clock, the CPDLC printer and the EFB.

The STC amendment to the primary EFIS/EFB STC is pending government bureaucracy being the same the world over. 

The customer opted not to install a third FMS MCDU at the Nav station but requested a capability for the Navigator to use FMS functions and be able to enter tactical data on the TacView EFB MCDU repeater.

The TacView is a Class II EFB. CMC Electronics proposes the use of the “Tandem” solution to avoid safety and civil certification issue with GACA Saudi Arabia airworthiness.

FMS tandem capability was implemented in 2005 for the Switzerland Air Force trainer.

The tandem allows for both co-pilot and navigator to share a same and unique display generated by a single FMS. The trainer can dynamically review the navigator action and monitor safety.

The important feature is the Navigator can do his flight planning but must have the consent of the co-pilot prior the data being input into the FMS.

I'll come back later about Global Air Traffic Management (GATM)


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## Matt308 (Nov 6, 2010)

Okay, understand. Navigator can sees what copilot sees, can enter data into the scratchpad, but co-pilot must verify before accepting. Fine. What happens when co-pilot is entering data in scratchpad concurrent with navigator position? I also must assume that copilot position has priority/precendence and locks out navigator entry?

If you are going to tell me that they are only going to use the Class II EFB for monitoring primary flight displays and it has a placard/AFM limitation on its use, then don't bother with a long winded response. I note also that you mention CPDLC. Is that FMS based FANS-1/A? And please don't tell me that is on the Class II EFB. That's a definite no no.


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## davparlr (Nov 10, 2010)

Okay guys, you are very knowledgeable on cockpit operations but I think you should identify your terms so we could all appreciate and participate. I am very interested in this issue and are somewhat knowledgeable, but it has been quite a few years since I was in cockpit design and terminology changes with time and with subcontractor.

EFIS - Electronic Flight Instrument System (?)
Cat II - Landing below 200' ceiling but above 100'. Visibility 300 ft.
Cat III - Ultimately zero-zero.
FMS - Flight Management System (?)

Then I am lost.

What is a navigator doing on the modern aircraft?? Is it because foreign operators cannot depend on GPS? 

On the B-2, last data entered on separate panels was accepted. Crew is still required work together. But then there was no navigator to argue with. However, there is provisions to add a third station just never required. I am not sure of the status of Cat landings for the B-2, but it has no Head Up Display, something I fought against because of design impact to the crew station and huge cost, basically because the B-2 is a heads down aircraft. The original WAG for upgrading the B-2 to GATM was over a billion dollars.

In my day, waivers were often given on military aircraft for civilian requirements.


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## Matt308 (Nov 10, 2010)

It was the Saudi L-1000 (C-130) that Mr. Hund was referring to, Davparlr.

In today's world military operators want to have civil approvals for type design to ensure that they are not denied regional airspace operations and given commensurate airspace clearances to civil operators. This is especially true in Europe where failure to be civil compliant can relegate you to operations below FL280. And that is a REALLY inefficient altitude for most turbojet airplanes.


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## krieghund (Nov 10, 2010)

davparlr said:


> Okay guys, you are very knowledgeable on cockpit operations but I think you should identify your terms so we could all appreciate and participate. I am very interested in this issue and are somewhat knowledgeable, but it has been quite a few years since I was in cockpit design and terminology changes with time and with subcontractor.
> 
> EFIS - Electronic Flight Instrument System (?)
> Cat II - Landing below 200' ceiling but above 100'. Visibility 300 ft.
> ...



Sorry I tend to get carried away but yes those are correct.

Their CONOPS calls for a Nav in certain situations and GPS outage was not the concern anyway dual LaserV Inertial Reference Units (IRU) provide for accurate navigation should GPS be switched off.

I imagine the cost driver for CNS/ATM equipment into the B-2 was the engineering of commercial equipment into the stealth design. TCAS would be a big headache for them.

And lastly the reluctance or lack of waivers for European airspace areas was the primary driver to upgrade the fleet. Imagine a VIP wanting to go to Zurich for a vacation only to arrive on his BBJ to discover his C130 with his car and guys are stuck in the Czech republic for another 12 hours until a window is opened for them to transit to Zurich. This happened NOT A HAPPY CAMPER!!


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## davparlr (Nov 11, 2010)

krieghund said:


> I imagine the cost driver for CNS/ATM equipment into the B-2 was the engineering of commercial equipment into the stealth design. TCAS would be a big headache for them.



Equipment wasn't too much of a problem if it had a 1553 interface. Antennas! Putting antennas on the B-2 was horrendous. RCS requirements and load alleviation due to the stressed skin made each antenna installation a special development, and if the antenna was in the Boeing section, oh, my, gosh.


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## Matt308 (Nov 11, 2010)

Yeah, I've always wondered how they installed the star gazer to navigation without compromizing upper RCS. That plane must have been an engineering nightmare.


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## davparlr (Nov 12, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> Yeah, I've always wondered how they installed the star gazer to navigation without compromizing upper RCS. That plane must have been an engineering nightmare.



I don't think the star tracker installation was too bad since it was design in at the start as far as loads were concerned and the RCS was probably handled the same way the windshield was. Developing Rf antennas with low RCS, and also worked, was a big deal.


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## HealzDevo (Nov 20, 2010)

Looks very complex. No wonder they wanted a simulator as until you got used to it, that thing looks very easy to make a mistake on.


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