# Boy Directs JFK Air Traffic



## Njaco (Mar 3, 2010)

JFK Airport: Boy Directs Air Traffic Control, Caught on Tape - ABC News

*Kid Controller Controversy: Boy Directs JFK Air Traffic* 
Controllers Suspended After Allowing Child to Instruct Pilots
By LISA STARK, KATE McCARTHY and MATT HOSFORD
March 3, 2010 

JFK airport is one of the largest airports in the country, handling a thousand takeoffs and landings a day. But at approximately 8 pm on the evening of Feb. 16 a child was caught on tape in the control tower directing air traffic and giving instructions to pilots. 

Certified controller is suspended after letting son give pilots instructions."Jet Blue 171, clear for takeoff," the young boy said, according to audio recordings from LiveATC.net. 

The boy was speaking to Sacramento bound Airbus A320 that departed JFK airport at 7:56pm, according to flightstats.com, a Website that tracks flight information. 

The pilot replied "Clear for takeoff, 171." 

The child's father, who is a certified controller, brought his son to work with him but then put him to work as well, according to the Federal Aviation Administration. 

"This is what you get, guys, when the kids are out of school," the father said to a pilot. 

"Wish I could bring my kid to work," the pilot responded. 

Yet on the audio recording, the pilots appear more amused than worried. 

"Jet Blue 171, contact departure," the boy, who is believed to be around 8 or 9 -years-old, said. 

"Over to Jet Blue departure, 171. Awesome job," the pilot responded. 

The young boy continued directing pilots for several takeoffs. 

"4-0-3, prepare for takeoff," the boy said. According to flightstats.com this Aeromexico flight was departing at 7:56 pm for Mexico City. 

"4-0-3, preparing for takeoff. Thank you very much, have a great day," the pilot responded. 

" A-Mex 4-0-3, contact departure, adios," the boy said. 

"Adios, amigo," the boy said, speaking to another plane. 

"Adios, amigo," the pilot responded. "Over to departure, Jet Blue 195." 

Jet Blue flight 195 departed at 7:58 pm for Las Vegas, according to flightstats.com. 

The FAA, which hasn't released the names of the controllers involved, is not treating this as a joke. It is investigating the controller, as well as a supervising controller. Both have been relieved of their duties, the FAA said. 

"This behavior is not acceptable and does not demonstrate the kind of professionalism expected from FAA employees," the agency said in a statement.


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## syscom3 (Mar 3, 2010)

Just wtf was the parent thinking?

I'd hate to see him lose his job, but this was a lapse in judgment that is astounding.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Mar 3, 2010)

Have to admit, the job of an ATC is too important and vital to let a kid handle it.


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## pbfoot (Mar 4, 2010)

It is a non event , I/m sure the kid was sitting in a training position in which the controller can override the transmissions of the trainee. Think about the last time you went flying in a General Aviation aiircraft and the pilot let you have a turn at the controls its no different . Another point to ponder is the position the kid was sitting in he was clearing aircraft for take off he wasn't working a sector or terminal the pilot had already recieved his clearance including departure instructions and freq's , What you didn't hear and is most important is all the coordination behind the scenes between departure, arrival and tower . The take off instructions had no changes to his departure such as altitude restrictions or turns .


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## Colin1 (Mar 4, 2010)

Sounds like the aircraft were simply waiting for the order to roll
I could understand it if they'd been in the landing pattern

Not condoning it, he should've known this would blow up in his face - the stories I hear from you guys about the FAA don't make it sound pretty


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## rochie (Mar 4, 2010)

just been on our news that the same guy let his daughter do the same thing the next day !
not sure how much danger the aircraft involved were actually in though


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 4, 2010)

Pb is 100% correct - this is all about nothing. The only thing I could say is thee controller should have thought twice about this as the Hudson river mid-air happened not so long ago just a few miles away. It would seem to me that anything going on in that area is being closely monitored.


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## pbfoot (Mar 4, 2010)

The fact being no pilots or other controllers bitched about it, it was some guy sitting in his house monitoring ATC that blew the guy in . The controller in the tower biggest job in an enviroment such as this would be coordinating the flow or between arrival and departure and ground to maximize the use of the rwy and that is something you don't hear on the tape


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## timshatz (Mar 4, 2010)

Agree with PB and Flyboy, it sounds like the kid was on ground controll, not air. Kinda like a traffic cop directing traffic with his son standing next to him and doing the same thing. Drivers pay attention and do what the kid tells them to do while the cop monitors it. If I was driving and had it happen, I'd probably think it was pretty cool. 

As the guys above said, it's a non-event. Ground is removed from air and kind of, a step below. Little more relaxed than air. Just a "Go over there and do this" without a time limit on it. Most of the time. Given that everyone in the loop (Pilots, Ground Controllers, ect) was a professional and the kid was just doing what someone was telling him, it's nothing.


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## ToughOmbre (Mar 4, 2010)

It's a matter of perception, and perception is reality. Agree with Joe and pb that it wasn't that big a deal, but it was an incredibly stupid move on the part of the controller IMO.

TO


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## Waynos (Mar 4, 2010)

I agree that the kid was never actually in control of anything, but looking at it from a dfferent angle, how irresponsible of the parent to expose his child like that. I mean, imagine his trauma and anguish if one of those planes had crashed. It could have screwed him up for life.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Mar 4, 2010)

Well, seeing how the kid wasn't exactly directing traffic, just giving take off clearance, I'm more sympathetic. Still, he should have know that was going to bite him the @ss. 

As a slightly off-topic question, how bad is the FAA today compared to 30-40 years ago?


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## pbfoot (Mar 4, 2010)

Waynos said:


> I agree that the kid was never actually in control of anything, but looking at it from a dfferent angle, how irresponsible of the parent to expose his child like that. I mean, imagine his trauma and anguish if one of those planes had crashed. It could have screwed him up for life.


How many people let there kids "fly" the plane as they sit in the right seat


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 4, 2010)

Vassili Zaitzev said:


> how bad is the FAA today compared to 30-40 years ago?


As far as being strict or being assholes?


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Mar 4, 2010)

FLYBOYJ said:


> As far as being strict or being assholes?



Well, I guess both.


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 4, 2010)

Vassili Zaitzev said:


> Well, I guess both.


It actually depends what part of the country you're in. I dealt with the FAA in California in LA, Florida, Colorado and Mississippi. 20 or 30 years ago many of the maintenance and operations inspectors were hardasses and sometimes acted on things they knew little or nothing about. A "kinder, gentler FAA emerged in the 1990s. These days you have a lot of new folks, some are real good, others lack experience and common sense.

My 2 cents...


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Mar 4, 2010)

Okay, thanks for your input.


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## lesofprimus (Mar 4, 2010)

Why the fu*k is this Globally Important News????

How bout what Obama and his staff of meatballs are doing to this country??? I think that should take precedence over some guys having their kids at work with them giving the pilots a laugh or two...

Big frickin deal...

Today in Mississippi, they sentenced the second of three black punk teeneagers who carjacked and killed this poor guy who asked for directions at a gas station in Moss Point... One more to go...


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## Pong (Mar 5, 2010)

lesofprimus said:


> Why the fu*k is this Globally Important News????
> 
> How bout what Obama and his staff of meatballs are doing to this country??? I think that should take precedence over some guys having their kids at work with them giving the pilots a laugh or two...
> 
> ...



CNN, Fox and most of the other news stations have nothing else to report. Same here, most of the time, stupid and unimportant news comes in here because they have nothing to report on.

Though why was the boy allowed in the tower? Crap, there are planes circling around a busy airport and one little mistake could possibly seal the fate of one pilot and the passengers. Security these days....


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## wheelsup_cavu (Mar 5, 2010)

I've seen this story on a few forums.
The general public, CNN and the news organizations are flipping out over it.
The pilots and anyone with knowledge of the sytem see it as a non issue.

When the heck did take your kid to work day become such a nightmare?
I'll bet those were the safest few hours in that area.
IMO, everbody was on their toes to make sure nothing went wrong while this was happening.

Thank heaven I was a kid when I was and everybody seemed to have some perspective on what was dangerous and what wasn't...


Wheels


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## lesofprimus (Mar 5, 2010)

I believe school was closed for a couple snow days when this happened..


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 5, 2010)

Pong said:


> Though why was the boy allowed in the tower? Crap, there are planes circling around a busy airport and one little mistake could possibly seal the fate of one pilot and the passengers. Security these days....



Pong, apparently you have never been in a busy active control tower or any control tower for that matter. At a place like JFK there are several controllers in the tower moving aircraft on the ground, giving clearances and even moving ground vehicles. These kids were under the direct supervision of the controller and were prompted on what to say and when to say it, it wasn't like these kids were directing traffic flow or giving any type of sequence. I would also guess that this controller brought these kids to the tower at a time where things weren't that busy, and had things been busy, these kids would not have done this. All these kids did were to repeat a couple of prompted commands to aircraft awaiting a simple instruction. I would relate this to a captain of an ocean liner allowing a child to come in the bridge and toot the ship's horn while arriving in port. Where the laps of judgement is here is doing this in airspace that is continually being monitored and scrutinized by the media and public. Had this been at a small airport, this would have been a non event.

Folks need to understand the environment that this incident happened in before making comments.


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## r2800doublewasp (Mar 5, 2010)

A couple years back I visited an air traffic control tower at SFO because my friends dad is an air traffic controller. It was pretty cool but VERY busy.


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## vikingBerserker (Mar 5, 2010)

My dad used to work in Base Ops and I loved going to work with thim. 

Cripes, if the guy left the kid incharge and went out to smoke I can understand the concern, but this......Ijust don't get what the problem was.


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## Matt308 (Mar 5, 2010)

International efforts to reduce runway incursions and other ground-ground incidents are at the leading edge of world safety objectives. Surely the FAA is VERY concerned when "qualified" controllers are implicating that a child can conduct their jobs.

I'm 100% behind them getting canned. While some may pretend that ground operations are harmless with respect to safety, setting such a precendent is ridiculous.

Tape Confirms The Pilot's Son Caused Crash Of Russian Jet - NYTimes.com


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 5, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> International efforts to reduce runway incursions and other ground-ground incidents are at the leading edge of world safety objectives. Surely the FAA is VERY concerned when "qualified" controllers are implicating that a child can conduct their jobs.
> 
> I'm 100% behind them getting canned. While some may pretend that ground operations are harmless with respect to safety, setting such a precendent is ridiculous.
> 
> Tape Confirms The Pilot's Son Caused Crash Of Russian Jet - NYTimes.com



Matt - it's one thing to prompt a kid to say "Clear for Takeoff." It's another thing when you let a kid manipulate the controls of an airliner with 100+ people on board, at altitude and at cruising speeds.

The guy should be reprimanded and moved to Republic airport.


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## pbfoot (Mar 6, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> International efforts to reduce runway incursions and other ground-ground incidents are at the leading edge of world safety objectives. Surely the FAA is VERY concerned when "qualified" controllers are implicating that a child can conduct their jobs.
> 
> I'm 100% behind them getting canned. While some may pretend that ground operations are harmless with respect to safety, setting such a precendent is ridiculous.
> 
> Tape Confirms The Pilot's Son Caused Crash Of Russian Jet - NYTimes.com



We aren't even hearing the complete sequence of transmissions , I can't recall anyone clearing the aircraft on to the active rwy or altimeter setting or winds neither do you hear anyone clearing any aircraft to land


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## Matt308 (Mar 6, 2010)

Sorry guys I take this much more seriously than you do. It is not only what the kid(s) said, but the fact that they required some supervision that impairs the controllers ability to concentrate on maintaining a safe ground operation. With the international effort to reduce ground incidents/accidents at a peak, the controller (and his supervisor) have committed a cardinal sin. Especially with this being JFK. Unexcusable. Let him join the 10%.

But, alas, he's NATCA. Not a [email protected] thing will happen to him.


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 6, 2010)

I heard the part of the tape and its a non event and this had nothing to do with ground collision avoidance. The tape I heard had the adult give taxi instruction to several aircraft and when the first aircraft was cleared for take off, the kid chimed in and it was obvious he was prompted by the controller. This was well into the evening from what I understand and flights were not pouring out of JFK like some would believe. The stupidity here was doing this at Kennedy. I bet you LAX and O'Hare are continually monitored now by the public (thanks to the wonder of the Internet) to see if this or any other errors are going to be made.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the FAA had no policy or guidelines to address a situation like this. Additionally the FCC would allow a non-licensed person to transmit on a VHF frequency under the direct supervision of a licensed individual. 

As I heard one person comment about this - "Instructions conveyed and properly followed." Give the controller a slap on the hand and press on. This is nothing more than media sensationalism against the aviation industry.


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## Matt308 (Mar 6, 2010)

Listen to Live ATC (Air Traffic Control) Communications | LiveATC.net


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## pbfoot (Mar 6, 2010)

Its obvious that it will turn out badly for the controller and his supervisor but then again everyone in the Tower that was on shift at the same time should fired as well if they let this horrible transgression occur . BTW who the hell listens to ATC on line , I've tried but and I've a practiced ear it lacks all the interraction between all the agencies so you really don't have a clue as to whats occuring .


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 6, 2010)

pbfoot said:


> Its obvious that it will turn out badly for the controller and his supervisor but then again everyone in the Tower that was on shift at the same time should fired as well if they let this horrible transgression occur . BTW who the hell listens to ATC on line , I've tried but and I've a practiced ear it lacks all the interraction between all the agencies so you really don't have a clue as to whats occuring .



There are many who will "ease-drop" on these transmissions and try to interpret them their own way.

About 2 years ago I was doing routine touch and goes at my local airport. On my 3rd circuit I rotated and the airplane stopped making power, RPM hung at 1700 RPM and I was 500' AGL and no longer climbing. I was able to turn around and was going to go back to the runway, the whole time telling the tower what was going on. As I prepared for an emergency landing I went quickly through an emergency checklist and pulled carburetor heat. Immediately the engine came back to life - I had picked up some carb ice. I stopped the tower from rolling out the emergency vehicles and continued on my way. Later that week I was at an aviation gathering and a friend of a friend heard about my little situation and played back the tape via Internet. I was surprised that this was able to be accessed


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## Matt308 (Mar 7, 2010)

Anything recorded is accessable via the Freedom of Information Act. And ICAO Annex 6 requires that member states (nations) retain ground recordings of all ATC communications. With the 'internets' and aviation enthusiasts with VHF receivers, it's all right there for some website entrepeneur. 

I kinda like the site. Makes for a interesting diversion.


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## pbfoot (Mar 7, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> Anything recorded is accessable via the Freedom of Information Act. And ICAO Annex 6 requires that member states (nations) retain ground recordings of all ATC communications. With the 'internets' and aviation enthusiasts with VHF receivers, it's all right there for some website entrepeneur.
> 
> I kinda like the site. Makes for a interesting diversion.


Its hard to follow since it lacks the interaction between the various units ,. ACC ,Terminal , Ground ,Tower its kinda like reading about using even pages only . the reasoning behind the decisions is not there


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## Matt308 (Mar 7, 2010)

Yeah but that's a nit. You don't get the D-side and R-side controller dialogue either.


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## Pong (Mar 8, 2010)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Pong, apparently you have never been in a busy active control tower or any control tower for that matter. At a place like JFK there are several controllers in the tower moving aircraft on the ground, giving clearances and even moving ground vehicles. These kids were under the direct supervision of the controller and were prompted on what to say and when to say it, it wasn't like these kids were directing traffic flow or giving any type of sequence. I would also guess that this controller brought these kids to the tower at a time where things weren't that busy, and had things been busy, these kids would not have done this. All these kids did were to repeat a couple of prompted commands to aircraft awaiting a simple instruction. I would relate this to a captain of an ocean liner allowing a child to come in the bridge and toot the ship's horn while arriving in port. Where the laps of judgement is here is doing this in airspace that is continually being monitored and scrutinized by the media and public. Had this been at a small airport, this would have been a non event.
> 
> Folks need to understand the environment that this incident happened in before making comments.



 Well sorry bout' that.  (Serious brain fart)


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## timshatz (Mar 9, 2010)

FLYBOYJ said:


> There are many who will "ease-drop" on these transmissions and try to interpret them their own way.
> 
> About 2 years ago I was doing routine touch and goes at my local airport. On my 3rd circuit I rotated and the airplane stopped making power, RPM hung at 1700 RPM and I was 500' AGL and no longer climbing. I was able to turn around and was going to go back to the runway, the whole time telling the tower what was going on. As I prepared for an emergency landing I went quickly through an emergency checklist and pulled carburetor heat. Immediately the engine came back to life - I had picked up some carb ice. I stopped the tower from rolling out the emergency vehicles and continued on my way. Later that week I was at an aviation gathering and a friend of a friend heard about my little situation and played back the tape via Internet. I was surprised that this was able to be accessed



Pucker factor go up there a tad?


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 9, 2010)

timshatz said:


> Pucker factor go up there a tad?


After I got on the ground it did!


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## timshatz (Mar 9, 2010)

FLYBOYJ said:


> After I got on the ground it did!




I hear ya'. Only a catastophic failure would be worse than the engine going south. 

<THREAD DRIFT ALERT> (the following is not worth it's own thread but is interesting)

On a related note, there were two gear collapses on my airfield over the last week. Weather has been brutal, crosswinds galore. Add that to piled snow on the sides of the runway and you get guys catching the plowed snow, digging the gear in and collapsing the nose gear as the nose comes around and into the snow. 

One was a Piper 160 or so. Bad, but not real pricey. The other was a Piper Malibiu. Pricey, and the props were fractured on both. 

Weirded me out when I saw them. Was very careful on landing. 

<Back to our normally scheduled thread>

Wonder if the feds are going to come down hard on the ATCs. It's pretty well known now so they'll probably make an example.


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## Milosh (Mar 9, 2010)

Though not the brightest thing to do but this could have put a positive spin on American atc > flying is so safe that even a child can be a controller.


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## timshatz (Mar 9, 2010)

Milosh said:


> Though not the brightest thing to do but this could have put a positive spin on American atc > flying is so safe that even a child can be a controller.




Nice way of thinking about it. Probably won't happen. But it's a nice idea.


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## Colin1 (Mar 9, 2010)

Milosh said:


> ...flying is so safe that even a child can be a controller


The point 
you have maybe missed is that the child wasn't controlling anything. Telling a child to say 'Go' on cue makes me more mindful of the fact that the child is the one being controlled.

I'm still not condoning it but only because he should have known someone would hear about it and make a crisis out of it.


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## Milosh (Mar 9, 2010)

Colin1 said:


> The point
> you have maybe missed is that the child wasn't controlling anything. Telling a child to say 'Go' on cue makes me more mindful of the fact that the child is the one being controlled.
> 
> I'm still not condoning it but only because he should have known someone would hear about it and make a crisis out of it.



Yes I know the child was not controlling any a/c. I think you missed the point I was attempting to make.


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