# Uniform



## billrunnels (Mar 29, 2018)

I have only one piece of my WWII uniform and it is special. The "Battle Jacket". It was made by a tailor in London and cost me $75. The red satin lining was the 303rdbg color. It was not accepted as part of the Class A Uniform Until near the end of the war when so many brought them back to the States. However, we wore them while in the UK. It was an optional item and not many purchased them. I only weighed 145 pounds then. When I put in on now there is a 6 inch gap down the front.

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## Tim Moore (Mar 29, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> I have only one piece of my WWII uniform and it is special. The "Battle Jacket". It was made by a tailor in London and cost me $75. The red satin lining was the 303rdbg color. It was not accepted as part of the Class A Uniform Until near the end of the war when so many brought them back to the States. However, we wore them while in the UK. It was an optional item and not many purchased them. I only weighed 145 pounds then. When I put in on now there is a 6 inch gap down the front.
> View attachment 487684


Gorgeous.


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## Airframes (Mar 29, 2018)

Great that you still have it Bill.
Is that the one sometimes known as the 'Ike jacket' ?


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## billrunnels (Mar 29, 2018)

Airframes said:


> Great that you still have it Bill.
> Is that the one sometimes known as the 'Ike jacket' ?


No, I think the "Ike Jacket" was government issue. They do look alike.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 29, 2018)

Very nice! Keep that in the family.


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## Airframes (Mar 29, 2018)

Thanks Bill.


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## soulezoo (Mar 29, 2018)

Love it!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 29, 2018)

Airframes said:


> Great that you still have it Bill.
> Is that the one sometimes known as the 'Ike jacket' ?



I have a nice original Ike Jacket in my collection. I can post a picture of it when I get home.


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## billrunnels (Mar 29, 2018)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Very nice! Keep that in the family.


I plan to.


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## Elmas (Mar 29, 2018)

$ 75 were a tremendous amount of money in those days!
Made in a world famous tailoring firm in Savile Row?


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## billrunnels (Mar 29, 2018)

Elmas said:


> $ 75 were a tremendous amount of money in those days!
> Made in a world famous tailoring firm in Savile Row?


Sorry I don't remember. No marking in the jacket.


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## Gnomey (Mar 29, 2018)

Great stuff Bill!


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## airminded88 (Mar 30, 2018)

Impeccable and invaluable piece of history.
I bet wearing that uniform in public must have made you feel very proud.
Thank you so much for sharing Bill.

Cheers


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## billrunnels (Mar 30, 2018)

airminded88 said:


> Impeccable and invaluable piece of history.
> I bet wearing that uniform in public must have made you feel very proud.
> Thank you so much for sharing Bill.
> 
> Cheers


I was proud to be a part of the Military service during WWII. That pride continues today.

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## MIflyer (Mar 30, 2018)

I believe that kind of jacket was used by the RAF. I suppose that the USAAF adopted it informally.


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## billrunnels (Mar 30, 2018)

MIflyer said:


> I believe that kind of jacket was used by the RAF. I suppose that the USAAF adopted it informally.


Thar could very well be.


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## MIflyer (Mar 30, 2018)

I base that idea on the movie 633 Squadron. They are wearing a jacket very similar to that one, although in blue. 

I have a Norwegian Air Force surplus jacket much like that one, in dark blue.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 30, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> I was proud to be a part of the Military service during WWII. That pride continues today.



As it should Bill!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 30, 2018)

Airframes said:


> Great that you still have it Bill.
> Is that the one sometimes known as the 'Ike jacket' ?



This was the "Ike Jacket". This is one that is in my collection.

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## billrunnels (Mar 30, 2018)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> This was the "Ike Jacket". This is one that is in my collection.
> 
> View attachment 487876


Very similar without the red satin lining.


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## Airframes (Mar 31, 2018)

Thanks Chris.


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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Apr 5, 2018)

Tim Moore said:


> Gorgeous.


The "6 inch front panel gap-- hummm- maybe the British tailor forgot to include a cummerbund?"" Thanks for your service to America and our Allies in WW11- and your jacket and the fine condition in which you have kept it reflects that pride indeed.


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## Zipper730 (Apr 11, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> I only weighed 145 pounds then.


How tall are you? When I was around 19-22 I was about the same weight at 5'7".


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## billrunnels (Apr 11, 2018)

Zipper730 said:


> How tall are you? When I was around 19-22 I was about the same weight at 5'7".


At that time I was 5'11"


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## Tieleader (May 28, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> I have only one piece of my WWII uniform and it is special. The "Battle Jacket". It was made by a tailor in London and cost me $75. The red satin lining was the 303rdbg color. It was not accepted as part of the Class A Uniform Until near the end of the war when so many brought them back to the States. However, we wore them while in the UK. It was an optional item and not many purchased them. I only weighed 145 pounds then. When I put in on now there is a 6 inch gap down the front.
> View attachment 487684


What do the ribbons signify? Also what is the patch on the right pocket?


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## tyrodtom (May 28, 2018)

The insignia over the right pocket is the Honorable Service emblem, also called the ruptured duck.
Given on discharge from the service at the end of WW2.

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## Tieleader (May 28, 2018)

Thanks! Never knew that.


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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Jun 1, 2018)

tyrodtom said:


> The insignia over the right pocket is the Honorable Service emblem, also called the ruptured duck.
> Given on discharge from the service at the end of WW2.


Was that emblem also worn by servicemen on leave and allowed to wear civilian dress while on leave-Stateside perhaps.??


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 1, 2018)

Hansie Bloeckmann said:


> Was that emblem also worn by servicemen on leave and allowed to wear civilian dress while on leave-Stateside perhaps.??



No, as far as I know only after they were honorably disharged. When on leave, they wore there uniform as normal. The badge was then issued after they left the military, allowing them to continue wearing their uniform for up to 30 days. They also could wear it on their civilian clothing.

I may be wrong, Bill can tell us more, but soldiers were not allowed to wear civilian clothes even when on leave stateside during WW2.

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## billrunnels (Jun 1, 2018)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> No, as far as I know only after they were honorably disharged. When on leave, they wore there uniform as normal. The badge was then issued after they left the military, allowing them to continue wearing their uniform for up to 30 days. They also could wear it on their civilian clothing.
> 
> I may be wrong, Bill can tell us more, but soldiers were not allowed to wear civilian clothes even when on leave stateside during WW2.


We were to be in uniform when on leave. However, I wore civilian clothes when at my home town and I have a feeling most did when home.
The discharge badge, called "The Ruptured Duck", was stitched on my jacket just before I departed the base at Fort Wayne, Indiana.

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## Zipper730 (Jun 1, 2018)

tyrodtom said:


> The insignia over the right pocket is the Honorable Service emblem, also called the ruptured duck.


Sounds painful for the duck 



billrunnels said:


> The discharge badge, called "The Ruptured Duck", was stitched on my jacket just before I departed the base at Fort Wayne, Indiana.


That's cool


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## GrauGeist (Jun 1, 2018)

I always thought that the "Ike Jacket" was sharp looking and Bill's is a fine example!

That style was also carried over into the civilian world in several forms. Case in point: when I managed a Texaco in the arly 80's, my jacket was referred to as the "Eisenhower Cut" by the uniform company that supplied my crew. Loved it, as it not only looked great, but was extremely comfortable.
And as it turns out, I still have it after all these many years - you can see from the photo that it does follow closely to it's military namesake.

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## billrunnels (Jun 1, 2018)

Sharp looking jacket

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## soulezoo (Jun 1, 2018)

I hadn't heard of that ribbon being called the ruptured duck before. However, it immediately reminded me of a certain B-25 piloted by Capt. Ted Lawson.

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Jun 2, 2018)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> No, as far as I know only after they were honorably disharged. When on leave, they wore there uniform as normal. The badge was then issued after they left the military, allowing them to continue wearing their uniform for up to 30 days. They also could wear it on their civilian clothing.
> 
> I may be wrong, Bill can tell us more, but soldiers were not allowed to wear civilian clothes even when on leave stateside during WW2.


Thanks-- Mr. Eagle has landed- I was 90% sure that personnel on leave, even Stateside, had to be in uniform (Class A's??) at least for Commissioned Officers-0 now, thanks to you and Mr. Bill R.- I know that info. Also was a good policy, at least in WW11- you knew right away that person was serving his/her Country, with honor and pride..


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 2, 2018)

Hansie Bloeckmann said:


> Thanks-- Mr. Eagle has landed- I was 90% sure that personnel on leave, even Stateside, had to be in uniform (Class A's??) at least for Commissioned Officers-0 now, thanks to you and Mr. Bill R.- I know that info. Also was a good policy, at least in WW11- you knew right away that person was serving his/her Country, with honor and pride..


 
I believe the main reason soldiers were forbidden from "owning" civilian clothing during WW2, was not to distinguish them as servicing with honor and pride, but rather to make desertion more difficult.


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## billrunnels (Jun 2, 2018)

Tieleader said:


> What do the ribbons signify? Also what is the patch on the right pocket?


Ribbons left to right: Air Medal, European Theater, Victory Medal.

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## billrunnels (Jun 2, 2018)

Hansie Bloeckmann said:


> Thanks-- Mr. Eagle has landed- I was 90% sure that personnel on leave, even Stateside, had to be in uniform (Class A's??) at least for Commissioned Officers-0 now, thanks to you and Mr. Bill R.- I know that info. Also was a good policy, at least in WW11- you knew right away that person was serving his/her Country, with honor and pride..


My home was a small town in Missouri so I could get away with wearing civilian clothing. However, if going up town or attending public functions I wore the uniform.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 2, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> Ribbons left to right: Air Medal, European Theater, Victory Medal.



A fellow air medal recipient. I earned two air medals for combat operations in Iraq. Not the same as earning them over Nazi Germany I know, but they are tge two awards I am most proud of.

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## billrunnels (Jun 2, 2018)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> A fellow air medal recipient. I earned two air medals for combat operations in Iraq. Not the same as earning them over Nazi Germany I know, but they are tge two awards I am most proud of.


My complements. You have every right to be proud.

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## billrunnels (Jun 2, 2018)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I believe the main reason soldiers were forbidden from "owning" civilian clothing during WW2, was not to distinguish them as servicing with honor and pride, but rather to make desertion more difficult.


I have never associated the uniform with desertion prevention. Rather, it gave me identity as a member of a team with an honorable goal.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 2, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> I have never associated the uniform with desertion prevention. Rather, it gave me identity as a member of a team with an honorable goal.


 
I agree with you, and am sure it was like that for most soldiers. I was implying that this was the reason the government required soldiers to only have uniforms during their enlistments/service periods.


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## billrunnels (Jun 2, 2018)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I agree with you, and am sure it was like that for most soldiers. I was implying that this was the reason the government required soldiers to only have uniforms during there enlistments/service periods.


I am not sure how the uniform would prevent desertion. A person could go out the gate in uniform, purchase civilian clothes and take off. A lot of government policies made little or no sense and in my opinion this is one.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 2, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> I am not sure how the uniform would prevent desertion. A person could go out the gate in uniform, purchase civilian clothes and take off. A lot of government policies made little or no sense and in my opinion this is one.



It is something I have read.

As you, and anyone who has served knows, the military and government does not always make sense.

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## mikewint (Jun 2, 2018)

Regardless of T.O., all military bureaucracies consist of a Surprise Party Department, a Practical Joke Department, and a Fairy Godmother Department. The first two process most matters as the third is very small; the Fairy Godmother Department is one elderly female GS-5 clerk usually out on sick leave.

Military policy is like cancer: Nobody knows where it comes from but it can’t be ignored.

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## Zipper730 (Jun 2, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> I am not sure how the uniform would prevent desertion. A person could go out the gate in uniform, purchase civilian clothes and take off. A lot of government policies made little or no sense and in my opinion this is one.


A determined person will almost always find a way around a problem, the idea is to make it difficult enough so that most won't even bother.

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## tyrodtom (Jun 2, 2018)

I've seen pictures of my uncles, and dad, on leave during WW2.
They're wearing military class A uniform on a picnic, a little lax, maybe. No hats, but outside.
There's also pictures of them eating a meal indoors, no uniform, I think, but it's hard to say for sure from a black and white picture.
Then there's some pictures of them hunting while they're on leave, definitely not military clothes.

I just thought they wore their military uniform even when home on leave, mainly when they out in public. Because they didn't want no one to mistake them for a 4-F. Surely even the military knew they couldn't control every facet of your life when you were on leave.

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## Tieleader (Jun 2, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> Ribbons left to right: Air Medal, European Theater, Victory Medal.


Thanks for the intell !


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## billrunnels (Jun 2, 2018)

tyrodtom said:


> I've seen pictures of my uncles, and dad, on leave during WW2.
> They're wearing military class A uniform on a picnic, a little lax, maybe. No hats, but outside.
> There's also pictures of them eating a meal indoors, no uniform, I think, but it's hard to say for sure from a black and white picture.
> Then there's some pictures of them hunting while they're on leave, definitely not military clothes.
> ...


I had respect for the uniform even when I didn't have it on. It was difficult to relax when in uniform because of the discipline it mandated. I walked a little taller with it on.

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## mikewint (Jun 3, 2018)

While I had a class A I can't say that I ever wore it more than a very few times. Once in country there was no "home" leave, probably afierd we'd run for the AMERICAN hills. Initially our issued BDUs were those silly OD green heavy canvas long sleeved (in a country where cool was 90F(32C) and humidity was 100%) types with a large bright white name tag and a large bright yellow ARMY. PLUS they gave me a helmet with a bright white circle and red-cross on all four sides. Now NOTHING in Vietnam id OD green and the name tag and Army tags were like neon signs: HERE I AM...PLEASE SHOOT. At the time the Army absolutely refused any type of cammo. SF started sending home for the Duck Hunter cammo which, while better still was improper for Vietnam. Eventually the Mercs came with the Tiger-stripe cammo which were perfect but the cheap Asian mfgs used veg-dyes that quickly faded after a few washings. Things eventually got better and the Tiger-stripe became our de facto uniform though every once in a while some by-the-book non-SF Ossifer would have a cow. We ignored and did our thing. Even wearing the black PJs from time to time and using AKs (though at 6'4" and 200lbs I wasn't vaguely Vietnamese).
Back in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave wearing a uniform in 1968 was a good way to get shunned, spit-on, beat-up, etc.

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## Prop Duster (Jun 7, 2018)

Bill
It is a well known fact, among the Vets I know, that our uniforms hanging in a closet or folded in a trunk *will shrink *over time. It seems to have to do with age and the condition of the wearer, but many of us have "lost" our uniforms due to this insidious shrinkage; It is especially sad as *we * certainly haven't changed any in all this time. 
Seriously: Thank you for your incites and input to help all of us understand more about the " way it was".

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## billrunnels (Jun 7, 2018)

Prop Duster said:


> Bill
> It is a well known fact, among the Vets I know, that our uniforms hanging in a closet or folded in a trunk *will shrink *over time. It seems to have to do with age and the condition of the wearer, but many of us have "lost" our uniforms due to this insidious shrinkage; It is especially sad as *we * certainly haven't changed any in all this time.
> Seriously: Thank you for your incites and input to help all of us understand more about the " way it was".


Your "will shrink" comments make me feel much better.

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## ODonovan (Jun 7, 2018)

mikewint said:


> Back in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave wearing a uniform in 1968 was a good way to get shunned, spit-on, beat-up, etc.



I missed "The 'Nam," having just graduated high school in '75. I did have some friends who went, including the older brother of my best friend, who flew UH-1 gunships. When I was entering high school (ours was just last three years, 10th -12th grades), in September '72, I started in Army Junior ROTC. I was SO proud to be in the uniform. We had standard issue army khakis and garrison caps. The only thing different from regular army was our collar and hat brass. We didn't even have JROTC shoulder patches yet, which we would get later. I was leaving a drug store I stopped into after school, when a kid and his mom were going in the other door. He looked at me and smiled. I felt ten feet tall. Then, he said to his mother, "Look mommy, a boy scout." Some days it just doesn't pay to get out of bed. 



-Irish

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## billrunnels (Jun 7, 2018)

ODonovan said:


> I missed "The 'Nam," having just graduated high school in '75. I did have some friends who went, including the older brother of my best friend, who flew UH-1 gunships. When I was entering high school (ours was just last three years, 10th -12th grades), in September '72, I started in Army Junior ROTC. I was SO proud to be in the uniform. We had standard issue army khakis and garrison caps. The only thing different from regular army was our collar and hat brass. We didn't even have JROTC shoulder patches yet, which we would get later. I was leaving a drug store I stopped into after school, when a kid and his mom were going in the other door. He looked at me and smiled. I felt ten feet tall. Then, he said to his mother, "Look mommy, a boy scout." Some days it just doesn't pay to get out of bed.
> 
> 
> 
> -Irish


First let me say being called a boy scout is a compliment. I achieved my eagle scout award at age 15 in 1940 of which I am very proud. However, I understand your feelings. On receiving my commission and bombardier wings during WWII I also walked tall. I was proud to be in the military.

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## ODonovan (Jun 7, 2018)

I started in Cub Scouts early on, so I've worn the BSA (what it used to be called) uniform and loved it, but being even a small part of the Army, getting to go on weekend FTXs (field training exercises) and having trips to places such as Fort Benning are absolutely highlights of my high school days. Having the US Army uniform mistaken for that of a boy scout just seemed wrong on so many levels. Maybe if I was a few years older, I wouldn't have still been giving off that "doesn't shave yet" vibe. 



-Irish


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## billrunnels (Jun 7, 2018)

ODonovan said:


> I started in Cub Scouts early on, so I've worn the BSA (what it used to be called) uniform and loved it, but being even a small part of the Army, getting to go on weekend FTXs (field training exercises) and having trips to places such as Fort Benning are absolutely highlights of my high school days. Having the US Army uniform mistaken for that of a boy scout just seemed wrong on so many levels. Maybe if I was a few years older, I wouldn't have still been giving off that "doesn't shave yet" vibe.
> 
> 
> le
> -Irish


Your feelings are commendable


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## XBe02Drvr (Jun 8, 2018)

ODonovan said:


> "Look mommy, a boy scout."


If you'd been wearing Navy class A's nobody would mistake you for a Boy Scout.
My friend Kathleen used to volunteer at workshops for girls exploring non- traditional fields, and when she showed up in her American Eagle Captain's uniform, she would invariably get asked to give up her service weapon and report to the law enforcement seminar.
Cheers,
Wes

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## mikewint (Jun 8, 2018)

XBe02Drvr said:


> American Eagle Captain's uniform, she would invariably get asked to give up her service weapon


I'm missing something here. That's an airline, is it not? And service weapon?


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## XBe02Drvr (Jun 8, 2018)

mikewint said:


> I'm missing something here. That's an airline, is it not? And service weapon?


Yep, they were so unused to the idea of women pilots that they took one glance at her uniform and assumed she was some esoteric form of cop.
When she joined American, they did try to recruit her for the AFDO program, but she would have nothing to do with it.
Cheers,
Wes

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## mikewint (Jun 8, 2018)

Thanks. I'm slow...need small words...slowly. Sounded like she was actually carrying one. My grandmother was actually a stewardess for a time when she was young...can't recall which airline though


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## XBe02Drvr (Jun 8, 2018)

mikewint said:


> My grandmother was actually a stewardess for a time when she was young...


Back in the day - when stews were young, female, attractive....and single!


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## XBe02Drvr (Jun 8, 2018)

mikewint said:


> Thanks. I'm slow...need small words...slowly. Sounded like she was actually carrying one. My grandmother was actually a stewardess for a time when she was young...can't recall which airline though


I thought it was ironic that they were trying to promote non-traditional occupational choices for girls and they had electricians, mechanics, cops, and truck drivers galore, but Airline Pilot wasn't even on their radar, and they didn't even recognize one when she walked in the door.
Cheers,
Wes


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## billrunnels (Jun 8, 2018)

XBe02Drvr said:


> Back in the day - when stews were young, female, attractive....and single!


Great time to travel. While in the service I was on a night Eastern Airlines flight from Tampa to St Louis seated in the last row on the DC 3. The hostess had served a sandwich earlier but hadn't picked up the tray so I took it to her and said "you failed to pick this up". Her response " may be I wanted you to bring it back". Those were the days

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## ODonovan (Jun 29, 2018)

Annnnd, back to the origin of this thread, Bill's jacket. Lookie what I found! 






2Lt Billy L. Runnels (right, leaning on the piano)​
Photo and caption from 360th Officer's Party - 1945 .




-Irish

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