# Typhoon most underrated fighter below 20,000 feet?



## airwar1943 (Oct 22, 2004)

After reading Osprey's Typhoon/Tempest Aces of WW2, I am wondering if the Allies best low to medium altitude fighter of '41, '42, and '43 was the Typhoon. Only a Griffin Spitfire could keep up with Typhoon at lower altitudes.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 22, 2004)

Speed wasnt everything in a serious dogfight... There were many parameters that made up a great fighter... Speed is one of many...

Unfortunatly, the Tiffy wasnt really all that.... Certain specific mission parameters, and this plane was the perfect choice....

There were several aces in the Tiffy, so it wasnt all that bad...


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## Gemhorse (Oct 22, 2004)

Quite frankly, the Typhoon Sqn's did an enormous job in paving the Allies path into Germany's demise...a fact that is thanklessly forgotten when it comes to Historical Aviation....Typhoons were originally intended to eradicate the Fw-190's dominance, but as stated, they were only good under 20,000 ft.....But they made up for this by being the main Fighter/Bomber of 'Cruiser Broadside' capability, especially in the Ground/Sea Attack role...Their 'Brother-in-Arms' were the Beaufighter/Mosquito FB's, all doing the same work....The Typhoons also engaged the V-1's and clocked-up a good score....I think the Tempest took over the Fighter role more successfully....I've posted this before, but you can check-out about Typhoons at... http://www.198sqn-raf.co.uk


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## Maestro (Oct 23, 2004)

There was many problem with the early models of Typhoon. Here are some examples :

1 - The hull was crap.
2 - Due to the lack of ventilation, pilots needed to permanently keep their gas mask on.
3 - The hand used for the landing gears was the same used for the broomstick... giving bad time to the pilot when taking-off.

Translated from the book "Le grand Cirque" ("The Great Show", in English) from Pierre H. Clostermann :

"[...] I light up the dash' lights. I set the gas "stick" - opened at 5/8 inches (no more, otherwise I'll drown the carburettor and get a back-fire). [...]

I put a cartringe in the starter. (That's the Koffman system, wich use the expansion of highly explosive gas to sart the engine up. Missing out the start-up isn't funny, because once the engine full of petrol, we have 90 chances out of 100 to take fire.) I start up the system [...] The noise is approximately five times louder than the Spitfire. [...] The engine' noise and it's vibrations seems a little weird to me. I'm nervous. What the hell am I doing here ?

Those thought lasted a while, because when I raised my head, I saw the mechanics a bit amazed who are waiting my signal to take the chocks off. I start to roll - a little too fast. Attention, don't use excessively the brakes wich warm up fast. A hot break lose all his grip.

This engine ! We're rolling blind, going his way like a crab, breaking right then left, alternatively to free my line of sight. [...] The tower officer looks like a guy who doesn't want to give me the green light. I get my head out of the cockpit, at the risk of receiving a drop of boiling oil in the eye. Always a red light. Damm, I should have forgotten something - and my damned engine is starting to warm up. [...] God damn ! That's the radio ! Quickly, I plug it and call : "Hullo Skydoor, Skydoor. Typhie 28 calling. May I Scramble ?" The tower officer fanally answer by giving me the green light. [...]

At the middle of the airstrip, my right wheel touch the lawn. With this plane, if I get off the road I'm gonna overturn. Too hell with that, I climb. This plane is awfully literally instable. I still drift away and I don't want to low down my left wing too much, with those dammed flaps wich only grip over 200 Km/h.

Fortunately, because of such accidents, they tore down the Hangar "F". I still pass very close of the Hangar "E". I get my gears up, but I forget to put the breaks on. A strong vibration shake the plane from the tail to the nose, reminding me that the wheels entered their holes spinning. I hope I didn't blew my tires.

I was really well behind my High-Command desk..."

Phew... long translation...


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## Gemhorse (Oct 23, 2004)

Yes, the Typhoon was known for it's 'teething troubles'...Diving a 7 ton fighter at up 550 mph and releasing your rockets at 800 ft. was scary, and if you pulled-out too quick, they'd go into a high-speed stall...They lost some from that, or their own explosions, being so low, and a bullet, flak or shrapnel into the 24 cylinder, liquid-cooled engine was deadly too...the engine seized-up within seconds...They initially suffered structural failures, the tail coming off, they had carbon monoxide poisoning; - they were very thirsty, so fuel was critical, and if combat was happening, they had to drop fuel tanks and rockets - they weren't as manoevrable with rocket-loads....

They lost a lot of good pilots flying the Typhoon, and their courage to KEEP going off and dealing to their targets, deserves much more credit in the annals of Aviation History than they've had...But they had their Aces too, I've read Closterman's book, years ago, a bloody good read !

I believe Typhoon pilots had real balls, they were a handful of aircraft to fly, and knowing that, the losses they were incurring, and that most of their work was going in low in the face of flak, and only having that one huge engine, that was brave.... but hey, they could deliver some punch....!![/u]


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 23, 2004)

that's the thing i love about the tiffy, it was designed as a fighter, and it was ok at low lever but the part i love is that after it was discovered it wasn't the fighter they wanted it to be, insted of scrapping the idea, they gave it a new lease in life as a fighter-bomber, and what a FB it was.....................


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## Maestro (Oct 23, 2004)

Yeah... The Typhoon was a great fighter-bomber.

But it needed a dammed good pilot to make it take-off !


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2004)

i like the tempest and the fury too, both derived from the tiffy................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

Hell I love the Tempest. In fact I like all of Hawker's aircraft during the war.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2004)

even their bi-planes??


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

I think most would agree with u, but the fact remains that, besides the Hurricane in the early part of the war, none of them could really dogfight with the Luftwaffe very well at all.....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2004)

but they were still vital to the war wining effort..............


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

I definatly agree, in the FB role for sure, and DAMN, didnt they kills some tanks with those rockets.....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2004)

and the 40mm.......................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> even their bi-planes??



Even their biplanes 8) I rather like a lot of biplanes as it happens


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

I wonder why I cannot find a Listing for Allied Tank Destroyers like I can for the Germans...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

If that was a sarcastic or ironic remark it went over my head


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

Then u need to pick ur head up alittle, cause it was sarcastic...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

youre taler than me so it will still go over my head even when im standing up, please explain


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

Stand on ur tippy toes, or on top of a cat, or pile several dead foxes to stand on....

Then maybe things wont go over ur head anymore....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

Credit to you threre for saying a very clever comment...

Now just tell me what the hell youre on about


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

Guess it went over ur head.... I was attempting to be witty.... It seems like u understood the witty part, just not the point....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

So tell me the damn point!


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

If something goes over your head, stand taller and u might get it....

IT WAS A FREAKIN JOKE U DRY BRITISH HUMOUR TYPE!!!!!


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

lesofprimus said:


> I wonder why I cannot find a Listing for Allied Tank Destroyers like I can for the Germans...



 Dude i dont get it...youre supposed to tell me whats funny about it


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

There was nothing funny about that quote... That was serious.... That info has eluded me for years....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

Now you see I dont know if you telling the truth or being sarky, but ill take it as the truth...*Prepares for laughter*


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## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2004)

Thats the truth.. I cannot find any info on Allied Tank Busting Pilots and the Totals from said aircraft....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2004)

to be honest i've never seen anything like that either, i don't think the RAF kept a tally of things like that........................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

Either that or they didnt actually bust any tanks


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 25, 2004)

you don't think rocket armed tiffys could take out a tank??


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 25, 2004)

Maybe they didnt...not saying they couldnt


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## Gemhorse (Oct 25, 2004)

I think you'll find RAF 6 Sqn. was the main 'Tankbusting Sqn.', using Hurricane II's with 2x 40mm's in the desert....Typhoon Sqn.'s rocketed and bombed anything considered fair-game, in the drive into Europe, and as Lanc said, they didn't keep score really of those things, except in combat-reports...They kept score of aircraft shot down, including V-1's, making aces just knocking them down...Both Typhoons and Tempests were very deadly fighters, but not quite like Spitfires were...Spits cruise was 1800 rpm., max at 2800 rpm...The cruising speed of the Tiffy/Temps were 3400 rpm., very high, not much less than their top speed rpm. of 3750 rpm., therefore in combat they were hard to get a bead-on initially, and near impossible when they accelerated, which WAS impressive...like their climb-ability. - So, guzzling 3 gallons of fuel a minute, they were GO from lift-off, until landing...The Tempest was more refined than the Typhoon, their thinner high-lift wings gave greater manoevrability, although they gave trouble with the slimmer version of 20mm's they had to install...They even scored against 262's [occasionally]...But they had success against Tanks, and they certainly took care of trains, ships and motor transport, aiming the aircraft to aim the rockets was the tricky bit, due to their high speed and the need to get-in low, shoot, and get-out OK, as by then, German AA was in 'plague-proportions'...- The Germans became very adept at setting 'flak-traps' for them, such was the damage nuisance Tiffy's Tempests created...- The Typhoons 'teething-problems' really stemmed from the fact that they were rushed into service as a foil to counter the Fw-190's...Alot of the parts were subcontracted-out, and the quality wasn't up to scratch, and once Hawker got everything done in-house, all the problems of both aircraft were smoothed-out. During the War, spreading the factories out eliminated vital industries being bombed-out, but after the Blitz when Air Defence gained Air Superiority, it settled down...The tragedy was the number of good pilots lost to these 'gremlin-problems'.....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 26, 2004)

but you can see why they wanted to get the fighters made quickly.................


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## Gemhorse (Nov 8, 2004)

To further reply to Les's question of Typhoon Tankbusting...

Bill Gunston [OBE, FRAeS; a noted Author on the Airwar,] wrote a book called 'Day of the Typhoon', in which he states...'The Typhoon Squadrons suffered the highest casualty rate of any force in the War, with the single exception of the German U-boats.'[I haven't yet read the book, but... ]

...In a tribute to John Golley, a former 245 Typhoon Sqn. pilot, [in the Feb. 2001 issue of 'Aeroplane' magazine,]... he mentions a day in mid-August 1944 when the 6th SS Panzer Division was caught on a road in daylight. Every 'Tiffy' in the 2nd TAF was called-up. The tanks occupied more than 6 miles of road, and fought back with 88mm and more than a hundred 20mm guns, but by late afternoon the entire Division was a shambles of wrecked and burning vehicles...

- Next to the DH Mosquito, the Typhoon had to be the ultimate Ground-attack aircraft - They were both very fast, but the Mossie had two engines, so I figure they had more chance of getting home shot-up and damaged, with the ' in-line ' engines and all, plus they had the 4 extra .303 guns ....


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## GermansRGeniuses (Nov 8, 2004)

Damn, I really want that bloody Tempest in AEP/PF!

The Spit Mk.XIV, too...


Those four Hispanos will blow nearly anything to shit...


The Temp's rockets will be fun, too...


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## GermansRGeniuses (Nov 8, 2004)

Those "Car Door" Typhoons sure do look strange...


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## Maestro (Nov 9, 2004)

Yeah. Personnally, I prefer the Typhoon with a "Tear Drop Canopy".


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## GermansRGeniuses (Nov 9, 2004)

I hear ya...


(My, I feel strangely spammy today...)


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 9, 2004)

GermansRGeniuses said:


> Those "Car Door" Typhoons sure do look strange...



Hey hey, the top image has my initials 'DT' on it


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 9, 2004)

but you don't loike the tiffy do you??


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 9, 2004)

Yeah, not my favourite of planes but I like it...


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## Gemhorse (Nov 10, 2004)

The 'Car door' caused some problems for pilots bailing-out, being a cramped situation with all the clobber on, especially if hit when diving, as their dive speed was 600 mph... Pulling-out was a delicate affair anyway, too much throttle and they could stall... - It's a recorded 'relief' RAF pilots felt, when the bubble canopies came on line....


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## Andrew (Nov 10, 2004)

According to a Book called "Typhoon Attack" by Norman Franks, which I have just finished reading, Tiffy Squadrons were given 3 Seperate roles, these were Dive Bombing, Rocket Attack and Escort Fighter, and Tiffy Squadrons specialised in doing one of these jobs only, squadrons being allocated specific tasks dependant upon the training the pilots had received. although in situations like the Falaise Pocket, all the Tiffy Squadrons bombed, fired rockets and just generally shot up anything that they could find.

Apparently the Tiffy was also fitted with experimental Rocket Rails, which had 2 Tiers, so instead of 8 Rockets being carried, they could carry up to 16, these were soon dispensed with as they could set off the Rockets which were mounted above them.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 10, 2004)

Wow 

Nice to see you back Andrew, you aint been around for a while


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## Andrew (Nov 11, 2004)

I have been lurking for a while, and also have been on several holidays which were very close together.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 11, 2004)

Ah, a holiday, I have distant memories of them


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