# The Russian Special Forces



## loomaluftwaffe (Jan 2, 2007)

what were russia's elite/special forces called? or like did the spetsnaz exist during that time? need info, tnx


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 2, 2007)

"Spetsnaz" is the Russian term for special purpose troops. Even today, it doesn't refer to a specific group like the SAS or SEALs or anything like that, but everything from naval commandos to police emergency response teams. Every branch of the service had spetsnaz troops of somekind during WWII, even the NKVD. NKVD spetsnaz troops were called Osnaz. As for specific unit names and any other service related terminology, I don't know.


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## loomaluftwaffe (Jan 3, 2007)

I see, any more info on this or the russians still got it classified?


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## plan_D (Jan 3, 2007)

I wasn't aware that the Red Army had any special forces during World War II. The idea of Commando style raids was generally new to warfare, and although this seems a national bias, I thought Britain were the first to develop it into a full arm.


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 3, 2007)

Britain was the first with the commandos as far as I'm aware too, unless we're _both_ wrong.

This is where we in the west confuse the term spetsnaz though. It doesn't necessarily refer to special forces as we think of them. The Russian (or Soviet) idea of "special purpose" units is a little broader. I don't know about the "spetsnaz" of every branch or specialty of the Red Army, VVS, Navy, or NKVD, but some were certainly more elite than others. The same holds true today. As I stated before, even special police units are classed as spetsnaz.

Looma, you can learn some good basic info online, at various websites. Just look around a bit.


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## plan_D (Jan 3, 2007)

I see. I know that the Soviets dropped people behind enemy lines to disrupt German supply lines - but that was more along the lines of resistance time operations, rather than dedicated military operations. I've always just known them as partisans - I suppose in Russian terminology, they'd be spetsnaz.


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 3, 2007)

I _think_ so, but then I'm not entirely certain. The usage of the word can still be a bit confusing to a non Soviet. For example, I don't think the shock armies were considered spetsnaz, and I know the paratroops as a whole weren't.


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## plan_D (Jan 3, 2007)

Well, would it be that Spetsnaz is like the term Special Forces? The British reference to Special Forces can include the SAS, SBS and other SF arms - while it does not include specialised units like the Royal Marines, RAF Regiment or Paras.


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 3, 2007)

plan_D said:


> Well, would it be that Spetsnaz is like the term Special Forces?


That seems to be a little more the case nowadays from what I've been able to gleen, yes, but during WWII it seems that deep recon groups were included also, as well as those who trained some of the partisan cells, like you mentioned. These would seem to me to fit more under the heading of Special Ops as opposed to Special Forces, which might include a force such as the US Army Rangers for example. The Rangers, as you know, aren't considered to be special forces, but from what I understand _do_ fall under special operations category. More elite than your standard grunts. Semantics I guess.


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## Medvedya (Jan 6, 2007)

What became Spetznatz was originally a special NKVD unit called OMSBON (Independent Motorized Brigade for Special Operations) They were formed in 1941 during the Battle for Moscow, and their members were recruited from athletes and sportsmen. They were highly trained in a special form of martial arts called Borvovye Sambo fighting, and were also skilled in the use of demolitions.


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 6, 2007)

Ah, I see. Thanks for shedding some light. 

Along comes Med in the nick of time, to save the day. 
Anything related to the Soviet Union, leave to the resident 2nd Guards Rifle member.


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## Medvedya (Jan 6, 2007)

One of the awkward things about finding stuff out about OMSBON is that much of their work is still classified - indeed their existance only came to light in 1994. 

Here's some info about Russian martial arts - a bit like judo except instead of merely restraining an attacker it encourages you to rip their arms off and play them like a xylophone against their ribcage.

SAMBO


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 6, 2007)

Some of the Combat Sambo moves sound to be downright evil. I read the Creation of Sambo link as well, very interesting. Heh. There's even a Sambo Canada link at the bottom, which unforunately didn't work. The large Russian/Ukrainian culture out in the prairies probably.


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## Medvedya (Jan 6, 2007)

Here you go...

UFRS United Federation of Russian Sambo

Also some more linkage about OMSBON

The Russian Battlefield - OMSBON - Independent Special Purpose Motorized Brigade

OMSBON and their original role during the Defence of Moscow in 1941 https://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/vol48no2/article12.html







A photo of an OMSBON unit (probably taken in the summer of 1942) Surprisingly, there were many political emigrants in OMSBON; Czechs, Bulgarians, Spanish Republicans, Germans, Austrians and even people from the U.K.

Also in their ranks was Nikolay Kuznetsov, one of the most famous Soviet razvedchiki (scouts) during the GPW.

Nikolai Ivanovich Kuznetsov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 6, 2007)

Wow, I never realized it was so organized over here. They train in both sport and combat techniques I see. Fascinating.


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## Medvedya (Jan 6, 2007)

Vladimir Putin himself is no slouch at this stuff either. (being ex KGB/FSB of course)


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdXwu2MXR_s_

Yeah - Fed up of getting sand kicked in your face? Learn the Soviet Systema way and you too can do this!


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## loomaluftwaffe (Jan 9, 2007)

wow dude, tnx, got any info on russian paratroops?


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## Medvedya (Jan 13, 2007)

Soviet WWII Desantniki (Paratroops) or Cold War/Modern ones?

With regard to the original pre war/GPW VDV, 

The origins of the VDV stem from an organization called OSOAVIAHIM, a voluntary society which developed military and semi-military sporting games. Although not specifically a military unit, it was supportive of the army, airforce and navy. The membership subs for joining were very small since its goal was preparing a pool of reserves for the existing armed forces. 

Very soon it became a powerful militarised organization, with its own aerodromes, radio clubs, parachute towers and firing ranges. It became extremely prestigious to earn badges such as Voroshilov marksman, Voroshilov horseman, and parachute jump badges. And they were NOT easy to win.

Gradually, OSOAVIAHIM became a kind of training for the army reserves, with its courses including such advanced disciplines as tactics, map-reading and weapons handling. A person could join OSOAVIAHIM as early as at the age of 14, and by 1941, OSOAVIAHIM was estimated as having around 13 million members.

Needless to say, the parachute training offered by OSOAVIAHIM was extremely popular, and there were clubs across the Union where one could participate in jumps, and earn their sports wings. 

This, as I've mentioned before, obviously served a dual purpose, and enabled the armed forces to have at their disposal men and women who had at the very minimum the basics in parachute training. 

Parachute units were originally formed in the Soviet Union during the mid 1930s, and were massively expanded during World War II, where they formed up to ten Airborne Corps with numerous Independent Airborne Brigades, with most or all achieving the elite "Guards" status after 1942.

Some of the very early units didn't actually wear parachutes - the planes, (usually a TB-3) would fly as low and slowly as they could with the desantniki hanging on to the sides having been instructed to look for soft places such as swamps and snow banks to jump into. 

I've cut and pasted accounts of the two major VDV operations during the GPW. 

_During the Soviet counter-offensive for the Defence of Moscow at Vyazma, 27th January 1942 , the Soviet 4th Airborne Corps began a series of night drops of paratroopers in the German rear. Forty civilian and twenty-two military aircraft, escorted by limited numbers of fighters and ground attack aviation, supported the landings. From the beginning, the operation did not go well.

After, six nights, only 2,100 men from the 10,000-man airborne corps had been dropped in. Because of bad weather and the pilots' inexperience with night navigation, most of these troops landed twenty kilometers south of the intended drop zone. Plans for five to six sorties each night did not take into account adverse weather conditions, aircraft failures, or combat losses. Also, the failure to conceal the buildup of troops at the airborne fields led to the closing of one of them by German bombers. The remaining two fields provided only two to three sorties per night. 

The paratroops that landed, however, did succeed in interdicting lines of communication in the German rear area for almost three weeks, in part because of their linkup with the 1st Guards Cavalry Corps on 6 February.

A second series of night landings occurred near Yukhnov between 17 and 23 February. The paratroops were again spread out over a large area because of inaccurate drops, and many supplies were lost. Some of the paratroops eventually joined partisan groups in the area, while the main body restricted itself to night operations because of its lack of artillery and air support. A planned two- to three-day operation extended to almost five months, but despite incredible problems, the remnant of the 4th Airborne Corps managed to break through two encirclements (with the help of a battalion of reinforcements dropped into the area on 15-16 April) and to reach friendly lines by late May. Although it had created considerable havoc in the German rear, the corps was decimated. It had not accomplished its mission of preventing a German withdrawal to the west, because German counterblows had halted the main Russian advance._

Later on in the war the Soviet Union again used Desaniki in the summer of 1943 during a massive offensive in the Ukraine. 

_Despite the problems encountered in the paratroop operation at Vyazma in 1942, the Soviets attempted a second night drop of an entire airborne corps on 24-25 September 1943 to seize a bridgehead at the Bukrin Bend on the Dnieper. Although the concept was excellent, the planning, timing, and execution of the operation produced results similar to those in 1942. The landing of the first two brigades, scheduled for the night of the twenty-third, had to be delayed a full day because of bad weather and the failure of all military transports to arrive at the three designated airfields. Although 4,575 paratroops were airborne the next night, a full 30 percent of the two brigades remained behind because of aircraft that never arrived, refueling problems, and the insistence of the pilots on carrying smaller lifts than the corps staff had planned. The pilots were inadequately trained, despite exercises held late that summer along the Moskva River, on terrain similar to the Dnieper. Nor were the pilots prepared for the strong antiaircraft resistance they encountered once the operation began. As a result, the two brigades (minus) were spread over - a much wider zone than intended, landing between Rzishchev and Cherkassy. Some landed over friendly positions on the Russian-held side of the river; some landed in the river itself; worse, the main body landed on the positions of three German divisions moving through the area. The Germans shot at the parachutists while they were still in the air, thus forcing them to begin fighting before they hit the ground.

Once on the ground, the paratroops (and what equipment they had not left behind) were so scattered that they were forced to operate in approximately thirty-five small groups. Their mission of seizing a bridgehead and holding a line 110 kilometers long and about twenty-six kilometers deep was no longer feasible, if indeed it ever had been. Instead, Soviet airborne troops once again assumed the role of guerrillas, hiding in forests by day and moving and fighting with partisan groups in the area by night. Because their radio gear was scattered over a wide area, they could not communicate with other Soviet forces. Plans to drop a third brigade were cancelled long before communications were reestablished on 6 October. Gradually, small groups of paratroops began to merge into a corps unit, and an estimated 1,000 or more finally linked up with the advancing forces of the Second Ukrainian Front in mid-November. The Soviets had gambled in conducting this operation at a time when bad weather precluded aerial reconnaissance of the target area. The result was a fiasco, which led Stalin to prohibit similar night operations._

Without question the Soviet Arnhem, they sustained 60% casualties in the battle, and saw some of the most ferocious fighting of any Airborne Troops of all theatres during WWII.

Those are the two main occasions where the Soviets conducted airborne operations, however the Desantniki also fought as regular infantry in all the major battles of the GPW.


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## Welsh Mark (Aug 30, 2011)

Thank you for the information on the VDV. Very useful.

In respect of OMSBON (_otdelnaya motostrelkovaya brigada osobogo naznaacheniya_), I understand that it indeed was formed in October 1941 as a specialised formation within the NKVD for sabotage, assassination and deep reconnaissance. However, I believe that in October 1943, the organisation was reformed and renamed the special purpose detachment (_otryad osobogo naznacheniya_ – OSNAZ) which is what it remained until it was disbanded after the end of the war in 1945. I have read that the title OSNAZ was previously used for a special purpose unit formed in 1921 which, after a number of evolutions, eventually became the _Dzerzhinskiy Division_.


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## michaelmaltby (Aug 30, 2011)

What about "Guards" regiments ...? Surely they at least represent an upper tier of troops?

MM


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## Aardvark111 (Nov 9, 2011)

All text in link Russian! Google-translator in help!

First of all that in Russia understand as special forces:

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From the description of Russian forces of a special purpose follows that their bases have been put even in civil war in Spain by Starinovym:


It is possibly possible to consider as the Russian theorist and the author of the ideology and the concept of application of special forces Svechnikova M. S who has had time to transfer many ideas to listeners of Military Academies, followers and supporters. Practical realization and real check of ideas is possibly begun by Starinovym I. G, it organizes the first fighting application during civil war in Spain. Possibly there was a fruitful ideological exchange between Svechnikovym M. S and Starinovym I. G, during study of the last in Academy.

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As which consider as the founder of special troops:







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The interesting moment! 
-Starinov at war in Spain and passed all Second World War has died in 2000 at the age of 100 years!
-It is considered that Ernest Hemingway described it in the novel "For Whom the Bell Tolls" calls.

The most significant operations which have been carried out under the direction of Starinova

In Spain:
Destruction of a staff of the Italian aviadivision;
Wreck of a train with Moroccans, wreck of a military echelon in the tunnel, interrupted for a long time important enemy communications;
Conclusion out of operation for a week of communications between Southern and Madrid fronts of the opponent.

During the Great Patriotic War:
In October, 1941 — transformation of the Kharkov means of communication practically in a trap for the opponent (explosion by a radio-controlled mine of the Sverdlovsk overpass through South trance way) that has complicated German approach.
Has made the most known explosion of a radio-controlled mine. On a signal of Starinova from Voronezh in 3:30 nights on November, 14th, 1941 on air during a banquet the German staff in Kharkov (street Dzerzhinsky, 17 has flied up; the former party private residence in which there lived at first Kosior, then Khruschev) together with the commander of 68th infantry division вермахта, the chief of garrison lieutenant general George a background Brown, the cousin well-known rocket Verner Brown's background. The sapper engineer-captain Gejden, under whose management have cleared of mines a building and have neutralized the false mine put under a heap of coal in a boiler-house of a private residence, has been degraded. In revenge for explosion Germans have hung up fifty and two hundred hostages-harkovchan have shot. [2]
In February, 1942 — ice campaigns through gulf of Taganrog in which result the highway Mariupol — Rostov-on-Don has been put out of action and the garrison of Germans on the Slanting Mountain is crushed.
Creation of diversionary service in the Ukrainian guerrilla formations and in the Ukrainian staff of guerrilla movement in 1943 therefore in Ukraine it has been made over 3500 wrecks of trains whereas in 1942 — only 202.
In 1944 — a professional training and creation of guerrilla formations Ukrainian the guerrilla for guerrilla war abroad — in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania.

Starinov grants, including absolutely confidential, concerning conducting guerrilla war which were used at training the guerrilla are written.

Other prototype of special troops possibly is Assault engineering-sapper brigade which were created with caution on experience of actions German stormgrenadiers of the First World War.

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It were special forces submitting directly to the rate of Stavka and having Special equipment, including prototypes of modern bullet-proof vests, machine guns and flame throwers.









"" - - - , , ,

But despite all it officially the special troops have been created in 1950!

B.R. Serge.


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## mikewint (Nov 9, 2011)

There is was an entire thread about this with excellent info by one of our russian members. Not sure of the title any more, might have been 6 - 8 months ago.
As a sidelight: every army has created "Special Forces" at some time or other. In the US, going back to the French and Indian wars. 1754 Rodgers Rangers was formed as a militia unit attached to the British army.
Three military formations now claim descent from Rogers' Rangers:
* The Queen's York Rangers (1st American Regiment) of the Canadian Army, formed from Loyalist veterans of Rogers' Rangers, including Rogers himself;
* The 1st Battalion 119th Field Artillery of the Michigan National Guard, with members directly descended by unbroken lines from the 30-strong detachment of Rogers' Rangers stationed in Fort Detroit; and
* The U.S. Army Rangers, who claim they revive the traditions of Rogers' Rangers but whose members have no direct personal line of descent.


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## davebender (Nov 9, 2011)

The Garde-Jäger-Battalion dates to 1762. I doubt Britain had commandos at an earlier date.

As for the Soviet Union....
They had a large airborne force from the 1930s onward. Both the GRU and NKVD had numerous intelligence gathering and assassination teams active throughout the world during the 1930s. Numerous former Czarist military officers were killed during that time frame. They also killed Trotsky in Mexico, operating from a drug store in New Mexico. The NKVD controlled the so called "International Brigades" which were organized in France and fought in Spain. 

The most important Soviet special forces operations of WWII probably consisted of organizing small military units behind German lines whose primary purpose was to terrorize civilians that worked for Germany in any capacity. They performed a similiar function in the Balkans.


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## parsifal (Nov 9, 2011)

I would categorize the Soviet Siberian Divs as special forces, though were not special forces in the british Commando sense The Siberian divisions, had good training for the winter and it gave them an advantage against the germans. 

At Stalingrad the Soviets had a specially trained sniper division, though it never operated as a division In Stalingrad both sides used a lot of commando tactics : the Soviets attacked germans on all sides by sneaking in the sewers. Even if the soldiers didn't have proper training, they learned a lot by experience. You could consider most of the Stalingrad survivors has a special force in the red army, specialized in urban war and tactics.


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## parsifal (Nov 9, 2011)

davebender said:


> The Garde-Jäger-Battalion dates to 1762. I doubt Britain had commandos at an earlier date.
> 
> .



Garde jagers are german Light Infantry that, like the british Light infantry formations were used as sharpshooters. Whats unique about the German jagers, is that jagers were the standard line Infantry during the napoleonic wars. they actually were generally not a success against Napoleon, being unable to resist the heavy cavalry and bayonet charges that were charactericstic of the Napoleonic war. 

British developed the concept of sharpshooter somewhat further during the Peninsula wars, forming entire regiments equipped with quick firing rifles. I believe the whole idea of sharpshooters equipped with long range rifles were taken from the experiences against the American frontiersmen at battles like saratoga, where officers had been specifically targetted. 

The word sniper comes from the British Indian Army, and dates back to the 1770s. It refers to any soldier with the reflexes and accuracy to bring down a Snipe....a fast and small bird found in india apparently. 

I think the first real special forces in the western armies might be the Red Indian scouts used on the frontiers. These guys, from all that i have read had exceptional skills at evasion and stealth ., and were used by the french the Brits and the Americans in their colonial wars


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## mikewint (Nov 9, 2011)

Parsifal- not sure that I would classify native scout forces as being "Special Forces" except in the broadest general terms. In the US I still have to come back to Rodger's Rangers as an attached unit in the regular army (see #22 above)


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## davebender (Nov 9, 2011)

German Jaeger battalions continued to evolve after 1815. 

The HKK2 movement across Belgium during August 1914 in advance of German 1st Army is one of the more outstanding examples of what Jaeger could accomplish against larger enemy forces. 5 Jaeger battalions (3, 4, 7, 9 and 10) were attached to 2nd Cavalry Corps for that operation. 

Jaeger battalions also formed the core of the Alpenkorps, a hardcore unit that specialized in mountain warfare. Erwin Rommel served in that unit for much of WWI. His book "Infantry Attacks" has excellent descriptions of some of their small unit actions.


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## Aardvark111 (Nov 10, 2011)

davebender said:


> As for the Soviet Union....
> Both the GRU and NKVD had numerous intelligence gathering and assassination teams active throughout the world during the 1930s. Numerous former Czarist military officers were killed during that time frame.



Yes but what this relation has with special troops? Special troops it all the same military divisions of regular army operating during war.
And murders in 1930, 1940 1950 years were carried out by employees of special departments of Intelligence, and frequently it there were individually prepared prepared agents directly for such missions. As the example is Trotsky's murder or considered as last officially recognized murder of the leader of the Ukrainian nationalists of Stepan Bandera*. But it no more than the special operations of Intelligence spent and before and after those many Intelligence Agency of world.

Probably the mess occurs in view of that in Russian terminology there is a military(voennaya) intelligence and army (voiskovaya) intelligence.
Words the voennaya (military) and voiskovaya (army) have similar sounding but a bit different put sense in Russian

By the way actions of army prospecting groups in territory of Germany of 1944-1945 according to this source:
A.Kolpakydy. D.Prokhorov. "Empire GRU". 
Moscov. OLMA-PRESS.2000. 
ISBN 5-224-00600-7 
ISBN 5-224-00766-6




have appeared are rather inefficient.

So for example here that write in the book mentioned by me concerning disembarkation of scouts-saboteurs to territory of Germany in 1944-1945: «From 120 skilled scouts and the agents directed by us from Brest and Kobrin in the live has escaped all from tens the persons who hardly have survived before arrival in area of their disembarkation of the Soviet armies» 
It was promoted as miscalculations in the preparation prospecting by operations and agencies, and very effective system of measures of counteraction created by the Germans, based basically on the help of indigenous population of Germany



_______________________________________________________________
*- On October, 15th, 1959 Stepan Bandera has been killed by the agent of KGB Bogdanom Stashinsky [37] at a house entrance in which he lived with a family. On a ladder to it have shot at the person from the special device [37] stream of a solution of potassium cyanide. Stepan Bandera has been buried on October, 20th on a cemetery of Valdfridhof (it. Waldfriedhof) in Munich. After his death the organization was headed by S.Lenkavsky.

The board of Foreign parts OUN in day of death of the head has declared that this political murder — continuation of a series of the murders begun in 1926 by murder of Simona Petlyura in Paris, and in 1938 — Evgenie Konovaltsa in Rotterdam.

On November, 17th, 1961 German judicial bodies declared that the agent of KGB Bogdan Stashinsky was the murderer. On October, 8-15th, 1962 in Germany the court over Stashinsky (spring of 1961 it has taken place has run across from East Berlin in Western, where has addressed in the American representation with a recognition in murder of Bandery and, two years earlier, one of heads OUN (Lva Rebeta, the editor of "Ukra§nskogo Samost_jnika", old political opponent Bandery and it OUN (). On court Stashinsky has given evidences that it operated under instructions of a management of the USSR. On October, 19th the sentence according to which Stashinsky have condemned for 8 years of a high security has been announced. Litigation over Stashinsky has become history of German jurisprudence under the name «Staschinski-Fall» («business Stashinsky») and even has led to certain legislative reforms of German criminal law.

KGB management denied the participation in murder of Bandery until recently. Only in 2005 the former chairman of KGB of the USSR Vladimir Krjuchkov recognized that «Stepan Bandery's murder was one of the last killed KGB violent methods of undesirable elements» [38].

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