# Osprey in Iraq-RPG bait?



## comiso90 (Apr 13, 2007)

At least there is no tail rotor for vulnerability sake.

I wonder how well the props can stand up to heavy machinegun fire?

The Hind's rotors were designed to withstand .50 cal rounds (in theory).

Marines to deploy tilt-rotor aircraft to Iraq - CNN.com


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## lesofprimus (Apr 13, 2007)

Kloby where are u???? 







I wish I could be one of those guys...

One thing I got a question on is the armor plating of the engines... How resistant are they to enemy fire??? I did a pretty deep search and all I could come up with is this...

The V-22 must be resistant to flight critical damage imposed by hits in vital areas by 12.7 millimeter (mm) Armor Piercing Incendiary (API) (threshold) projectiles and by 14.5 mm API projectiles (objective) at 90 percent of their respective muzzle velocities (USMC KPP). The 12.7mm and 14.5mm API projectiles are fired from heavy machine guns that are normally vehicle-mounted or emplaced. The 23mm and 30mm projectiles are fired from vehicle-mounted anti-aircraft artillery that can fire a mix of Armor Piercing Incendiary (API) and High Explosive Incendiary (HEI) rounds. 

The cockpit seats are armored for protection against 7.62 mm armor piercing rounds. 

The lower one-third and appropriate walls of each tank are self-sealing to a 12.7 mm AP threat.The fuel tanks are made of a lightweight synthetic rubber with is highly extensible and has high tensile strength. They are designed to meet a drop test requirement of 65 feet when filled with water.

The proprotor blades are also made of composites. These structures are fatigue resistant and damage tolerant, features particularly desirable for ballistic survivability.

Structural damage tolerance requirements in the V-22 system specification require that the V-22 airframe be ballistically tolerant and that destruction of any single frame member not kill the aircraft.

An interconnecting driveshaft allows the Osprey to continue flying in the advent of an engine failure. Either engine can power both proprotors, although with reduced performance.

The AE 1107C engine and installation in the V-22 incorporate numerous vulnerability reduction features. The volume of fuel contained in engine components and lines is minimized through the use of the FADECs. In addition, the engine compartment contains a single-shot fire suppression system to prevent uncontrolled engine fires.


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## comiso90 (Apr 13, 2007)

Great photo.... I'd like to get my knees in the breeze on an Osprey too!

Lots of helpful info too. thanks. I didn't know that there was a interconecting shaft for the engines... cool.

Do they use ceramic armor? Kevlar?


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## lesofprimus (Apr 13, 2007)

Im hoping to find out once Kloby gets here, and seein how he flies one, I wait in anticipation...


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## mkloby (Apr 13, 2007)

lesofprimus said:


> Im hoping to find out once Kloby gets here, and seein how he flies one, I wait in anticipation...



I'm not an Osprey pilot yet, I am just about finished with multi-engines and have to do rotary wing back in Pensacola...

That's an awesome pic - it surely is my wallpaper. LtGen Castellaw was at our Marine Ball at NAS Pensacola last year. Can't wait to get to the RAG. The first plan was to send VMM-263 on a deployment, although I am not sure if they intended them to actually conduct operations in Iraq... but they have apparently decided to jump straight to sending Ospreys in zone. It has met and exceeded the operational expectations laid out for it to date.


That's a good deal of info that you came up w/ les. I don't have specifics on the armor plating of the engines, but I would certainly think they would be fitted with the newer leightweight composite armor plating that is being installed on some of the older helos, such as CH-46E's. From my understanding, the proprotors are resilient and capable of withstanding HMG fire.

Hitting a helo with a non-guided shoulder launched RPG is not a common occurance. That would likely require close range, slow airspeed, and much luck. An example of when this would be a vulnerability would be when doing assault support and dropping into an LZ. This can be mitigated by providing CAS in support of the operation, hopefully effective enough to suppress the enemy, such as AV-8Bs AH-1Ws...

Another component which will increase survivability is the ALE-47 for chaff/flares. No doubt the biggest worry is the sophisticated manpads being supplied to insurgent forces from outside sources. You can bet the recent incidents are prompting a review and analysis regarding the effectiveness of that system. That's why that 46 we lost several weeks ago to a manpad was such a big issue.

Enroute, speed will obviously make the osprey less vulnerable to enemy fire. Crossing a linear threat abreast well in excess of 200 knots is going to be more safe than traditional helo operations, plus we have the option of climbing higher than a helo is capable of.

The great benefit of the MV-22 in assault support will be the the increased range, speed, and number of Marines it can transport. When compared to the CH-46E, mission times are cut DRAMATICALLY. It will increase the mobility and flexibility of Marines on the ground to respond to fluid threats.

It's going to be time for the MV-22 to 'put up or shut up,' and we're confident that she's going to do the former. You better bet, though, that squadron is going to be one of the leading targets in the whole country while they are deployed...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 15, 2007)

I dont think the Osprey will be RPG bait. It is hard to take down an aircraft with an RPG. First of all the RPG is not guided, it flies straight to its target. Second of all it is slow eneogh to evade.

When I was flying in Iraq RPB was the least of my worries.


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## comiso90 (Apr 16, 2007)

“RPG bait” was intended to be a euphemism for “vulnerable to ground attack from crude weapons”. Certainly no one expects Ospreys to fall from the sky, continually battered by un-guided rocket propelled grenades.

I have visions of the Osprey clad in make-shift improvised, slated armor like the type that is worn on Humvees and APCs


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## mkloby (Apr 16, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> “RPG bait” was intended to be a euphemism for “vulnerable to ground attack from crude weapons”. Certainly no one expects Ospreys to fall from the sky, continually battered by un-guided rocket propelled grenades.
> 
> I have visions of the Osprey clad in make-shift improvised, slated armor like the type that is worn on Humvees and APCs



As stated above - it's not the crude, small arms fire that has people worried. It's the newer generation manpads.

I don't think anything like that will happen. Besides, the newer armor fitted on aircraft is lightweight composite stuff, and hopefully the armor layout will prove effective.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 16, 2007)

Also the Osprey will have built in armour that is specifically designed for the Osprey made out of Kevlar.

You can not just modify and put the kind of make shift armour that is in the Hummers and stuff. It weighs to much and it will mess up the CG. Everything has to be purpose built and approved before it is installed.

We had BPS (Ballistic Protection System) installed in our Blackhawks (designed for our aircraft and would not fit in any other aircraft) and the same will be for the Osprey.


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## comiso90 (Apr 16, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> You can not just modify and put the kind of make shift armour that is in the Hummers and stuff. It weighs to much and it will mess up the CG. Everything has to be purpose built and approved before it is installed.
> 
> .


Not recommended... Yes. 
Highly discouraged... Yes. 
Greatly affect aerodynamic capabilities yes. 

But would you really say "can't"? If birds were coming back all chewed up, some field improvisation that comprises certain flight characteristics may be an option.

Perhaps they will develop “Heavy Assault” versions that fly slower with a smaller payload. Yes, speed is a key to survivability but some extra armor on a hot LZ may be worth the trade off.

I hate to think that some commanders/politicians think Ospreys are too valuable and the political ramifications of losing one are too great that they are not used to maximum effect.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 16, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> Not recommended... Yes.
> Highly discouraged... Yes.
> Greatly affect aerodynamic capabilities yes.
> 
> ...




No it will not be done. If you do that to an aircraft you can not fly it. There are rules and regulations set by the military. The days of field modding aircraft is over.

Therefore I guarantee you that a BPS system that is built for all military rotary wing aircraft and type approved has allready been developed.


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## Matt308 (Apr 17, 2007)

Have to agree with Adler. Too expensive of a machine to lose one over field mods and the political repercussions are just too high for the Corps to lose one, especially to non-engineered field expedient mods. Nobody would sign off on that.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 17, 2007)

You do anything to an aircraft the maint has to be signed off by a TI. No TI will sign off on that because it is there ass that will be in jail.


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## majorwoody10 (Oct 26, 2007)

does an osprey have to be actually struck by something to fall out of the sky ? .i thought they were supposed to be self imolating ..


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## mkloby (Oct 26, 2007)

majorwoody10 said:


> does an osprey have to be actually struck by something to fall out of the sky ? .i thought they were supposed to be self imolating ..



What do you mean by that? The V-22 has not had any major mishaps in a long time - yet people bring things up from 5 years ago and more. Do a little research beyond what morons that write for TIME magazine spew - which was little more than a diatribe with an agenda.


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## Haztoys (Oct 26, 2007)

I was always thinking or told the Arabs made a mess of the USSR's fixed wing crafts in Afganastand(SP  ) with RPG's..? Not to say you all are wrong .. You guys know more then I do by fare..  

????????????????????????????????????????...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 26, 2007)

majorwoody10 said:


> does an osprey have to be actually struck by something to fall out of the sky ? .i thought they were supposed to be self imolating ..



Sorry but I dont quite understand that?


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## comiso90 (Oct 26, 2007)

Self-immolation is the act of self-sacrifice by suicide. Literally, “immolation” implies suicide by fire, but the term also includes other forms of self-sacrifice.[1]

Self-immolation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think he's implying that the Osprey will blow-up on its own...

I dont think that's funny

.


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## ccheese (Oct 26, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> I think he's implying that the Osprey will blow-up on its own...
> 
> I dont think that's funny...



Me either..... What til mkloby gets wind of it.....

Charles


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## evangilder (Oct 26, 2007)

I can remember a time when the Blackhawk was crashing and killing guys during their development. Many people (mostly press pant-wetters) were convinced it was a lemon. There was a time when I began to wonder about it to, reading the papers. Then I saw one and realized that as usual, the press was overblowing things. Today, the naysayers of the Blackhawk are obviously silenced. I get a feeling the same will happen with the Osprey.

Get certified in that thing Matt, I would love to photograph you in it.


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## Graeme (Oct 26, 2007)

evangilder said:


> I can remember a time when the Blackhawk was crashing and killing guys during their development. Many people (mostly press pant-wetters) were convinced it was a lemon.



The same 'media hype' occurred with Australia's Blackhawks. And from an earlier generation they gave the F-111 hell. Most recently it is our aging Sea King helicopters.


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## mkloby (Oct 26, 2007)

ccheese said:


> Me either..... What til mkloby gets wind of it.....
> 
> Charles



I already read his BS and replied if you go back to page 1. Majorwoody - what the hell is your deal? Between your nonsensical comments, poor cracks at humor, and absolutely terrible "use" of the English language, I don't see a single thing that you contribute to this site.

Do you realize that every time an aircraft goes down we all pray because it's a small community and very close? It's not something about which to joke.


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## ccheese (Oct 26, 2007)

Mkloby: I don't give a rosey rodent's rectum what these idiots spit out about
the Osprey. The "adult portion" of the forum is riding with you... and many of 
*us* wish it could be *us* flying it. Envy shows greatly in those who
don't know the facts or really don't give a damn.... and probably a bit of
both !

Charles


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## comiso90 (Oct 27, 2007)

mkloby said:


> IDo you realize that every time an aircraft goes down we all pray because it's a small community and very close? It's not something about which to joke.



My intention of starting this thread was based on the survivability of the Osprey and the potential development of an assault version.

The thought of someone joking about a crew of marines being consumed in flames makes me want to crush skulls.

....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 27, 2007)

evangilder said:


> I can remember a time when the Blackhawk was crashing and killing guys during their development. Many people (mostly press pant-wetters) were convinced it was a lemon. There was a time when I began to wonder about it to, reading the papers. Then I saw one and realized that as usual, the press was overblowing things. Today, the naysayers of the Blackhawk are obviously silenced. I get a feeling the same will happen with the Osprey.



Yeap the Blackhawk was nicknamed the Lawn Dart. All it took was installing Pin Filters to correct the problem and it has been a stable platform ever since.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 27, 2007)

mkloby said:


> Do you realize that every time an aircraft goes down we all pray because it's a small community and very close? It's not something about which to joke.



I know exactly how you feel. Even though the US Army is bigger than the Marines the Aviation Branch of the Army is a very small community. Everyone knows someone who went down at some time or you did yourself.


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## FLYBOYJ (Oct 27, 2007)

Mentioned this earlier...

I got to visit the Osprey production line in Amarillo Texas in 1999. Prior to that visit I thought the thing was cannon fodder. After seeing the thing being built and what went into it, it made a believer out of me.


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## Royzee617 (Nov 1, 2007)

Great to see this great plane will be in action soon at last.

IMHO BHD movie et seq has coloured judgement on vulnerability. Provided everyone's alert (and has NV at night) things should go to plan.

Be a choice target for all the triggerhappy ragheads - all vying to be first to bag the new big bird.

As far as I know there's little advanced weaponry in theater let alone any bad guys with the savvy. That's not to discount agent provocateurs helping out as per Afghanistan with Blowpipes, Stingers etc.


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