# Messerschmitt Iron Cross Pilots Officers



## zuluecho (Jul 27, 2007)

I havn't been able to id any of these pics.. some of them are officers which would have been documented but i'm not sure how to go about id'ing them.
Also the Messerschmitts have unknown (not known to me markings) i'm guessing they are Spanish war marking but can't be certain. help please!


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## zuluecho (Jul 27, 2007)

some more unknowns.. please id


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## zuluecho (Jul 27, 2007)

and some more  i know some of them probably can not be id'd but i thought you guys might like to see 'em.


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## Wurger (Jul 27, 2007)

zuluecho said:


> I havn't been able to id any of these pics.. some of them are officers which would have been documented but i'm not sure how to go about id'ing them.
> Also the Messerschmitts have unknown (not known to me markings) i'm guessing they are Spanish war marking but can't be certain. help please!



Hi mate,
Nice stuff there.
As memory serves, these officers aren't Spaniards,they are Bulgarian pilots and these markings on aircrafts are also Bulgarian used by them from 1941 to 1944, except the Bf-110C with the German ones.The planes at the pics are ( I can be wrong but some mates from the forum will correct me for sure.) :

1.Bf 109E4
2.Bf 109G6
3.Bf 109E7
4.Bf 110C in German markings
5.Bf 109E7
6.Avia B.534
7.BF 109G6
8.BF 109G6
9.PZL P-24B with early Bulgarian markings that were used from 1938 to 1941.
10.I have to check it
11.Nose of Bf 109G6. 
12. Arado Ar-96A


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## zuluecho (Jul 27, 2007)

Thanks Wurger!! here are some more


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## Thorlifter (Jul 27, 2007)

Looks like a B17e, but I'll let Wurger take the rest. He's the man with this stuff.


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## Wurger (Jul 27, 2007)

1.Yes, the first pic shows B-17E.
2.Bulgarian Avia B-135B
3.Looking familiar but I cannot recall myself what the type of an aircraft it is.
4.Messerschmitt Bf-108 Taifun
5. I haven never seen the pic before.Excelent find.The PZL P-24B squadron with Heinkel He-51A one.


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## Trautloft (Jul 27, 2007)

yes,these are definately bulgarian markings


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## Eco-81 (Jul 27, 2007)

The second photo on the first post of the for Bulgarian officers are from left to right: Capt. Bochev, Capt. Toplodolski, Lieut. Stoyanov Krastev. Stoyanov was the leading ace of the Bulgarian Air Force in WWII.


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## zuluecho (Jul 27, 2007)

wow.. i didn't think anyone would be able to work out the officers! thats great. here are some more.


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## zuluecho (Jul 27, 2007)

i guess all these are from some sort of Bulgarian archive.. some more:


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## Njaco (Jul 27, 2007)

Traut, I think the profile might be Hungarian.
see - WW II ACE STORIES 

The profile you presented shows a white cross whereas the pics show an "X". 

Could the He 51s be Spanish, similiar to the Condor Legion? They show a different kind of marking on the fuselage, more like a badge. 

check - Escuadrilla Azul
"The Esquadrilla Azul (Blue Squadron) was a small Spanish expeditionary air force that fought on the eastern front (Army Group Center) from 1941 until 1944 with a total of 5 Spanish Squadrons flying BF-109 and later FW-190 which flew a total of 1,918 missions as part of Jagdgeschwader 51 better known as “Molders”.The squadrons worked in succession beginning with the first arriving on June 1941 until the last official one on February of 1944. This is the only Spanish unit to have fought in the Battle of Kursk. Its combat record consisted of 277 air kills and 74 aircraft destroyed, with a loss of seven Spanish pilots, 3 of them missing in action. "


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## Graeme (Jul 27, 2007)

Wurger said:


> 1.Yes, the first pic shows B-17E.
> 2.Bulgarian Avia B-135B
> 3.Looking familiar but I cannot recall myself what the type of an aircraft it is.
> 4.Messerschmitt Bf-108 Taifun
> 5. I haven never seen the pic before.Excelent find.The PZL P-24B squadron with Heinkel He-51A one.



Number '3' is an Arado Ar 65.





Very nice photos.


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## Heinz (Jul 27, 2007)

No doubt I'm wrong but the B-17 looks like an F model to me. i thought the E had a bird cage styled framing on the nose?


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## zuluecho (Jul 28, 2007)

and some more..


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## Graeme (Jul 28, 2007)

Njaco said:


> Traut, I think the profile might be Hungarian.
> see - WW II ACE STORIES
> 
> The profile you presented shows a white cross whereas the pics show an "X".
> ...




'Traut's' *Hungarian * profile of the Me-109 is his *'siggy' *. Hence the confusion.
Njaco, the markings are Bulgarian. It depends on *when* the photos were taken;


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## Njaco (Jul 28, 2007)

At first I thought it was a siggy but then I saw "This image has been..." hence the confusion. 

And thanks for clearing the marking issue.


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## Wurger (Jul 29, 2007)

Planes in posted pics.
The first post : Bf 109G6,Avia B.135B,B-24 Liberator.
The second one :Avia B.534,B-17,Bf 109E4,Bf 109 possible F or G.
The third post : Bf 109G6 may be of III/JG27,Avia B.534,Avia B.534 in the background,Bf 109F or G like in the pic of the second post.

As far as the Bulgarian markings are concerned I can see Graeme was faster than me.I've wanted to post the same but...Well done Graeme!!! and THX for the Arado Ar 65.

In addition, the early markings were used from 1938 to 1941 and then the new ones from 1941 to 1945.


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## Trautloft (Jul 29, 2007)

Yes,sorry 4 confusion Njaco,thx Graeme.
its indeed my sig,the Messer of hungarian ace Szentgyörgyi.(its a bit big i know,but since im hungarian i prefered it), in my previous post i just agreed your opinions. nice work,guys
I like the smaller axis airforce markings equipment,and biplanes ..mmh..
i ca immagine as the obsolete Avias and PZL.P24 tried to gain high altitudes to catch the bombers which been faster.


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## Wurger (Jul 29, 2007)

Trautloft said:


> I ca immagine as the obsolete Avias and PZL.P24 tried to gain high altitudes to catch the bombers which been faster.



You can be sure that at the begining of WW2 both PZL P-24 (especially F and G versions) and Avia B.534 could be up to the Bf 109C,D,E and all the German bombers,the Italian ones I don't mention at all ( please,read about the war in Greece,for instance).The main problem with the a/cs was the lack of fuel,ammunition and spare parts during struggles.


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## Chocks away! (Aug 21, 2007)

Very interesting pics by the way... Like the one with the mixed bunch of erla canopy and standard canopy equiped Bf-109s


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## chuter (Aug 24, 2007)

Hey - that last 109 is the Smithsonian's at post restoration rollout at Silver Hill. Note the very rare stubby landing gear for shorter pilots . . .  

What I . . . dislike . . . seeing at museums are flat struts and (while I'm at it) improperly pitched blades - sometimes they're even unevenly pitched.  Someone goes to all the effort to restore (at some level) an airplane and then they don't even pitch and install the prop correctly.  

But I'm zooming away on a tangent . . .


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## Milos Sijacki (Aug 26, 2007)

Those are really nice photographs you have there. Never saw photos of Bulgarian pilots and of their aircraft. Rally nice.


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## vstoyanov12 (May 8, 2008)

Hi guys,
I just registered and found this forum's website with very famous pictures of our bulgarian pilots and A/Cs-some of them unknown to me and some with my father on them (fighter pilot St.Stoyanov )Thank you very much to all of you.
Vesselin Stoyanov


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## Njaco (May 8, 2008)

Vesselin, can you point out which pics have your father in them. That would be great!

Oh, and welcome to the forum!


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## Hunter368 (May 8, 2008)

Never noticed this older thread before, nice pics.


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## v2 (May 9, 2008)

cool pics! Great stuff....


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## Milos Sijacki (May 28, 2008)

When it comes to markings, I personally like the pre-war ones. Vstoyanov, on which photo is your father?


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## thirtybg (May 29, 2008)

Excellent stuff...

The B-17 is neither an 'E' nor an 'F'... 'tis a B-17G, serial number 42-31329 from
the 334th BS, 95th BG. This ship was lost on March 16th, 1944 during a mission
to Augsburg. I have yet to come across any particulars as to why she was lost,
but five of the crew bailed out over Germany and were taken prisoner. The
remaining five stuck with the ship until she came down in Switzerland... they
were interned.

More images of this Fort can be found *HERE*...


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