# Error Landing Downwind



## sunny91 (Apr 18, 2007)

Hi: This pilot take a wrong decision with a twin jet.

Sunny


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 18, 2007)

Interesting, but I could tell you the winds didn't have much to play in this, at least if they were any indication of what that windsock was showing (5 knots). He landed long, that was the issue.

Good clip!


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## pbfoot (Apr 18, 2007)

In my opinion that sock is showing what they called 10-15 with a wet rwy . is that how they do it in Denmark


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 18, 2007)

pbfoot said:


> In my opinion that sock is showing what they called 10-15 with a wet rwy . is that how they do it in Denmark


Pb - I have the same sock out side my window at work - it was pretty limp when they filmed it. If its limp with the tail end rising with gusts, you're looking at about 5 knots.

If they did land with a 15 knot tail wind they might of had problems - that Citation had reversers and anti skid - I think the guy just landed long on a short runway...


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## mkloby (Apr 18, 2007)

That sock looked about 5-10 to me, 15+ would be fully blown out, which it was not. That would really probably only add a couple hundred feet to his landing distance. Looks like another civvy not doing his homework... I couldn't see exactly how he touched down, but you gotta know that crap - if there must be a point that you know (because as a good pilot you absolutely know your landing distance, if not calculate it before each flight), and if you don't touchdown before that, *GO AROUND!*

Didn't appear to be having an emergency...


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 18, 2007)

mkloby said:


> That sock looked about 5-10 to me, 15+ would be fully blown out, which it was not.


I think that sock is sold as a 15 knot 6' sock....


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## Deltaecco (Apr 18, 2007)

It's wierd that the engine powered back up.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 18, 2007)

Deltaecco said:


> It's wierd that the engine powered back up.



I thought the same thing - I was first wondering if someone was in the cockpit trying to bring the aircraft on to land. I'm wondering if the crew vacated the aircraft with the engines in idle and water pushing against bell cranks and pulleys as the fuselage was filling water caused the power levers to jump foward.


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## sunny91 (Apr 18, 2007)

I have founded this:

The CitationJet departed Burlington (BTV) around 14:45 on a routine flight to Atlantic City (AIY). The pilot first made a low pass down runway 29 and then return to land on runway 11. After touchdown the airplane failed to stop and overran the runway and into the Intercoastal Waterway. The occupants were rescued by a boat.
According to the Cessna 525A Landing Distance Chart, an airplane with a landing weight of 11,000 pounds required 2,930 feet of landing distance, in a no wind situation. With a 10 knot tailwind, which was the approx wind at the time of the accident, the airplane required 3,500 feet of landing distance. Runway 11 at Bader Field is a 2,948 foot-long, 100 foot-wide, asphalt runway. Bader Field is normally closed to jet traffic.

PROBABLE CAUSE: "The pilot's improper decision to plan a flight to a runway of insufficient length, his improper in-flight decision to land on that inadequate runway with a tailwind, and his failure to obtain the proper touchdown point. A factor in the accident was the tailwind condition."

Events:

Landing/takeoff - Landing - Late, far down rwy
Result - Came to rest off rwy - in wat


ASN Aircraft accident description Cessna 525A CitationJet 2 OY-JET - Atlantic City-Bader Field, NJ (AIY)

Sunny


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## mkloby (Apr 18, 2007)

Ahhh - so it was the homework...


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## Gnomey (Apr 19, 2007)

Bit of a meatball really he was if that was the case but then if the air traffic controller knew he couldn't get down he should surely of waved him off...


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 19, 2007)

Bingo, and I take back my statement on the tailwind; usually on an aircraft like that its not a factor, but this meatball tried to land this aircraft on a runway he could barely get in under normal conditions. The 10 knot tail wind required another 500 feet of runway, again under normal situations not a problem, but not when you're dealing with a runway that small and by the looks of the clip he didn't even put the plane down on the numbers!


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 19, 2007)

Gnomey said:


> Bit of a meatball really he was if that was the case but then if the air traffic controller knew he couldn't get down he should surely of waved him off...


It looks like an uncontrolled field, no tower...


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## pbfoot (Apr 19, 2007)

Yeah its uncontrolled but whatever happebed the pilots probably back instructing on C152's if he's even flying


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 19, 2007)

pbfoot said:


> Yeah its uncontrolled but whatever happebed the pilots probably back instructing on C152's if he's even flying


Or he was some rich guy who just had to get to Alantic City...


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## Gnomey (Apr 19, 2007)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Or he was some rich guy who just had to get to Alantic City...



Which is probably the most likely case... Whoever he was is a meatball and shouldn't really be flying.


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## pbfoot (Apr 19, 2007)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Or he was some rich guy who just had to get to Alantic City...


It's registered to a Danish Drug company


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## Matt308 (Apr 19, 2007)

Probably no FDR. But he looked awfully fast on landing.


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## mkloby (Apr 19, 2007)

Gnomey said:


> Bit of a meatball really he was if that was the case but then if the air traffic controller knew he couldn't get down he should surely of waved him off...



I hate uncontrolled airports - anything goes there. There are people out there doing all sorts of crazy stuff. Sometimes, they don't even talk on unicom, so it's a guessing game. I avoid them if possible, and only really bounce there when they're empty.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 19, 2007)

mkloby said:


> I hate uncontrolled airports - anything goes there. There are people out there doing all sorts of crazy stuff. Sometimes, they don't even talk on unicom, so it's a guessing game. I avoid them if possible, and only really bounce there when they're empty.


 I was flying into California City Airport (Uncontrolled) where there's a lot of glider traffic. I had a tow plane cross over the downwind traffic at about 100' above TPA - the end of the tow line (with the ball and metal link) almost came through my windshield....


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## Matt308 (Apr 19, 2007)

Yipes!


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## pbfoot (Apr 19, 2007)

General aviation ( light aircraft) folks scare the hell out of me. Including myself and my 176 hours


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 19, 2007)

How do you think I feel - I'm an instructor!


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## pbfoot (Apr 19, 2007)

I watch everyday as GA aircraft flog around sightseeing ingnoring the pattern laid out for sightseeing its really very scary. One day there will be a shower of aluminium and a smoking hole in the ground


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 19, 2007)

pbfoot said:


> I watch everyday as GA aircraft flog around sightseeing ingnoring the pattern laid out for sightseeing its really very scary. One day there will be a shower of aluminium and a smoking hole in the ground


I think the falls is a high traffic area that might suffer the same fate as the East River corridor in NYC (Cory Lidle)


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## pbfoot (Apr 19, 2007)

I hope not nothing beats watching the selection of aircraft flying over for there press shots . We did have 2 helicopters become one about 10 years ago hence the routes and altitudes no one pays attention to


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