# Child Porn Rings Dismantled



## ccheese (Feb 9, 2009)

RESCUING OUR CHILDREN

Seven Massive Porn Rings Dismantled 

02/09/09 
What started as a tip from Australian authorities in 2006 regarding a sexually explicit video has turned into one of the largest global child pornography investigations on record—and a model for how law enforcement cooperation can cast a powerful light into the darkest reaches of the Internet to bring child predators to justice.

Operation Joint Hammer has resulted in the rescue of 14 girls—some as young as 3 years old—who were being sexually abused by pornographers. Approximately 170 people have been arrested, more than 60 of them U.S. citizens. Seven major child pornography rings, hosting the worst of the worst, have been dismantled. And the investigation is far from complete
Working with international law enforcement organizations, members of our Innocent Images National Initiative program are playing a key role in the operation, along with the Department of Justice (DOJ), the United States Postal Inspection Service (USPIS), and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).

Here is what happened: Authorities in Queensland, Australia came across a pornographic video online showing a young victim. This victim was determined to be Dutch with a Flemish accent. Authorities in Belgium were contacted, and the ensuing European investigation became known as Operation Koala.

Belgian police identified and arrested the molester, who provided information about the video’s producer, an Italian national who ran a pornographic website. When Italian police arrested the producer and shut down his website, they retrieved 50,000 e-mails to the porn site. Those e-mails formed the basis of Operation Joint Hammer. They were routed by Europol to the 28 countries from which they originated—with more than 11,000 coming from the United States.

The Innocent Images Operations Unit, along with our U.S. partners, quickly got to work. From the U.S. e-mails, about 700 became workable investigative leads. These were divided between the FBI, USPIS, and ICE. DOJ’s Child Exploitation and Obscenity Section, responsible for prosecuting the federal cases, also played a critical role. As the investigation proceeded, many of our state and local law enforcement partners participated, conducting searches and making arrests.

The investigation is ongoing, but already dangerous sexual predators have been stopped:

A New Jersey man pled guilty to producing sexual images of his 9-year-old daughter. Evidence seized during the search of his home revealed that he had nearly 130,000 images of child pornography. He was sentenced to almost 20 years in prison. 

An Arizona fifth-grade schoolteacher was a customer of the Italian pornography website. A search of his home resulted in allegations of sexual contact with female students at his school. He faces multiple charges of sexual exploitation of children. 

A convicted sex offender from Philadelphia who spent 15 years in prison for molesting children was charged with advertising, distributing, and receiving child pornography. Evidence indicates that he administered two major global online child pornography bulletin boards.

So far, the FBI and our U.S. partners have conducted more than 250 searches as part of the operation. “We’re still working our way through all the cases,” said our agent in charge of the investigation. 

“Cooperation is the key,” the agent added. “During our regular meetings with postal inspectors, ICE, and DOJ, we do whatever needs to be done as a team to make sure the cases keep moving forward.”

Resources:
- Innocent Images website
- Related national press release


This from an FBI newsletter...

Charles


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Feb 9, 2009)




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## Vassili Zaitzev (Feb 9, 2009)

Nicely done, less scumbags. I can't understand why anyone would do that, just sick .


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## RabidAlien (Feb 9, 2009)

One way the Justice system works well....these sickos will be tossed into General Population. I hope their stay is long and memorable.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Feb 9, 2009)

RabidAlien said:


> One way the Justice system works well....these sickos will be tossed into General Population. I hope their stay is long and memorable.



No kidding, those guys on the bottom of the food chain in there, it'll be hell for them 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 9, 2009)

It's a crying shame that everyone convicted isn't going to be summarily executed.


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 9, 2009)

"General prison population" Place them there naked.


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## 109ROAMING (Feb 9, 2009)

Pleasing to hear this...still don't know WTF is wrong with some people


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## Wildcat (Feb 9, 2009)

It never ceases to amaze me how many people are actually into this bile sh*t. I say put them in front of a firing squad.


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## RabidAlien (Feb 9, 2009)

Heh. Putting them in "General" is better than a firing squad. They won't last 6 months before the other inmates do them in. In a very nasty and unpleasant way. There is still an honor code amongst thieves, after all.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Feb 9, 2009)

6 months?! I give them 6 hours before one of them gets a shiv in their gut!


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## Konigstiger205 (Feb 10, 2009)

Only if the justice system will work so well in all cases....Anyway good thing those bastards were caught...


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## Lucky13 (Feb 10, 2009)

Good stuff...! Let the other inmates play with them....


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## Wayne Little (Feb 10, 2009)

Sons of B!tches......F*cking scum...hope their lives are short and excrutiatingly painful....

...chip in anytime Dan....


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## evangilder (Feb 10, 2009)

Disgusting. Anyone who takes advantage of a child deserves a heinous death. Hey Dan, up for a little spleen hacky sack?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 10, 2009)

I think that this the lowest of crimes that can be committed. To destroy the innocence of a child like this is worse than murder in my opinion.

I have no sympathy for people that commit these crimes and would love to put my own kind of "justice" on them.


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 10, 2009)

nice to see all the anti-death-penalty countries on my side for a change.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 10, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> nice to see all the anti-death-penalty countries on my side for a change.



I am not anti death penlty...

Just because there is a German flag (because I live in Germany...), does not mean that I am American. I have always supported the death penalty.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Feb 10, 2009)

I agree Adler, it seems worse than murder. Some of the worst crimes in the world are ones like these. A abused child will have mental scars from it all the rest of his life. 

So I'm glad the Law has their hand on the people who do this.


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 10, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I am not anti death penlty...
> 
> Just because there is a German flag (because I live in Germany...), does not mean that I am American. I have always supported the death penalty.


Australia and the UK are in this thread too.


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## Captain Dunsel (Feb 10, 2009)

I was abused when I was a youngster, by a close adult female relative and her boyfriend. That betrayed relationship nearly destroyed me. I thank God that he guided me to meet and win my wonderful wife. 

She's known the facts since long before we were married, but stood by my side when I needed her and has helped me keep my sanity all these years (I'm 55, and I've been married to her for over 33 years). 

I sympathize with those kids, especially the ones abused by close family members. It's a horrible betrayal of trust and love, but I still can't bring myself to want the abuser summarily executed. Punished, yes, but not executed. They're sick, very sick, and they need to be prevented from destroying any more young lives, but I don't believe we have the right to kill them. I do pray for my abusers, pretty much daily.

CD


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## Bill G. (Feb 10, 2009)

Since our stupid President wants to close Gitmo, why not send them there. Then just toss in the outdated MREs for them to eat.

Now seriously, I have a lady friend that wrote and emailed me a ton while I was activated. She was sexually abused. The pain is still with her. It will never go away.

Anyone that would force sex on any child or even an adult is someone that needs to be removed from the gene pool.

Bill G.


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## Gnomey (Feb 11, 2009)

Simply the worst crime in the world. The children will live with it forever. They should certainly be put up for the death penalty if not then they can rot in hell.


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 11, 2009)

The victims do not deserve to live with the knowledge that their torturer is alive out there. Killing the perverts is the only civilised way to handle it.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 12, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> Australia and the UK are in this thread too.



Yeah my bad...


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## ToughOmbre (Feb 12, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> The victims do not deser4ve to live with the knowledge that their torturer is alive out there. Killing the perverts is the only civilised way to handle it.



No doubt about it Clay. Any adult who molests/abuses a child, does not deserve to live. 

TO


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## Captain Dunsel (Feb 13, 2009)

Sorry guys, but I can't agree with you. It's easy to say "kill them", but not when "them" has a face and a name you've known since childhood. 

When I was younger, I wanted her and her boyfriend jailed, but what proof was there? As the years went on, they broke up, he died, and she remarried, then became a widow. Now, publically accusing her would serve no purpose. 

CD


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## ToughOmbre (Feb 13, 2009)

Captain Dunsel said:


> Sorry guys, but I can't agree with you. It's easy to say "kill them", but not when "them" has a face and a name you've known since childhood.
> 
> When I was younger, I wanted her and her boyfriend jailed, but what proof was there? As the years went on, they broke up, he died, and she remarried, then became a widow. Now, publically accusing her would serve no purpose.
> 
> CD



No problem Captain. Not asking you to agree with us. 

But if a child sex offender ever even looked cross-eyed at my daughter, it would be the last thing he would ever do. I guarantee it.

TO


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 13, 2009)

Captain Dunsel said:


> Sorry guys, but I can't agree with you. It's easy to say "kill them", but not when "them" has a face and a name you've known since childhood.
> 
> When I was younger, I wanted her and her boyfriend jailed, but what proof was there? As the years went on, they broke up, he died, and she remarried, then became a widow. Now, publically accusing her would serve no purpose.
> 
> CD


I am a christian and I do understand that the best way to get past it is to forgive. I really admire the courage it takes to do that. You are a kinder person than I am.

Still, I've never seen evidence that even one of them was ever cured. They are heroin addicts and their drug of choice is the innocence of children. They are no more curable than mad dogs and if they are allowed to live they will do it again.


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## Captain Dunsel (Feb 14, 2009)

I never said they shouldn't be incarcerated or otherwise controlled, just that they shouldn't be executed. I could back sterilization or induced impotence, too, except it wouldn't stop a dedicated abuser (especially a female one). 

They are sick, of that I have no doubt. It'll be a long time before we learn enough about how human minds work to be able to cure that kind of sickness. In the meantime, do we treat them as the people of years past treated other, more obviously mentally ill, or do we try to treat them more humanely? 

CD


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## ToughOmbre (Feb 14, 2009)

I could live with these animals being sentenced to life *without* parole. They should also be put into the general prison population.

Anything less would be too good for them.

TO


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 14, 2009)

Captain Dunsel said:


> I never said they shouldn't be incarcerated or otherwise controlled, just that they shouldn't be executed. I could back sterilization or induced impotence, too, except it wouldn't stop a dedicated abuser (especially a female one).
> 
> They are sick, of that I have no doubt. It'll be a long time before we learn enough about how human minds work to be able to cure that kind of sickness. In the meantime, do we treat them as the people of years past treated other, more obviously mentally ill, or do we try to treat them more humanely?
> 
> CD


I honestly have no sympathy for them, honestly. I don't want their victims to pay taxes to feed and house them.


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## Emon_Essex (Feb 20, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> The victims do not deserve to live with the knowledge that their torturer is alive out there. Killing the perverts is the only civilised way to handle it.



There's absolutely nothing civilized about killing another human being, for WHATEVER reason. This is the twenty-first century, people. The human race needs to grow up. These people need psychiatric care, not a firing squad.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm sorry Emon, but I have to disagree. Anyone who hurts a child like that does not need psychiatric help, but jail time. Besides, I don't think pedophiles can be cured completely.


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## Colin1 (Feb 20, 2009)

Vassili Zaitzev said:


> ..Anyone who hurts a child like that does not need psychiatric help, but jail time...


it reminds me of a radio article I once heard whilst I was driving
Some undercover officer was being interviewed about another article he'd compiled, he got into the paedohile community and some of the things he had to do to blend in made your teeth curl. Sitting watching images on a video recorder and making the necessary noises of approval whilst real paedo's were masturbating over the same images, you had to admire his commitment and steel resolve.
It was a while ago and I don't remember the details but he came out of it resolute in his belief that paedophiles are cunning, manipulative, devious and totally driven; his experience of them was that, once caught, they plead for 'help' when help is the last thing on their minds, they want to offend again and keep offending and they'll say, agree to or comply with anything that will give them the freedom to do that.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Feb 20, 2009)

Yeah, I believe that there's no cure for pedophiles. Sure, there's chemical castration, but that doesn't stop most of them. In these cases, I'll have them stuck in jail for life rather then the death penalty. In jail, their on the bottom of the food chain.


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 21, 2009)

Emon_Essex said:


> There's absolutely nothing civilized about killing another human being, for WHATEVER reason. This is the twenty-first century, people. The human race needs to grow up. These people need psychiatric care, not a firing squad.


Because you say so? Ok, whatever. Why don't we be really civilised and not ever punish anyone at all because it would be "bad" and "mean"?



Colin1 said:


> It was a while ago and I don't remember the details but he came out of it resolute in his belief that paedophiles are cunning, manipulative, devious and totally driven; his experience of them was that, once caught, they plead for 'help' when help is the last thing on their minds, they want to offend again and keep offending and they'll say, agree to or comply with anything that will give them the freedom to do that.



That's ok, guys like Essex want to help them get what they wanted. Put 'em away for a month for some useless therapy, then they are "cured" enough to go rape another kid.


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## Captain Dunsel (Feb 21, 2009)

Until we figure out how to really cure such illnesses, we have to keep these sick people away from society. I can't agree with killing them, but I can agree with locking them away.

Unfortunately, our medicine, both phyiscal and psychological, is still pretty primative. We've learned a lot, especially in the last hundred years or so, but we're still not much advanced beyond leeches. We've got a long way to go. The problem is, do we just kill the ones who are sick, or do we try to me humane?

CD


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 21, 2009)

Captain Dunsel said:


> Until we figure out how to really cure such illnesses, we have to keep these sick people away from society. I can't agree with killing them, but I can agree with locking them away.
> 
> Unfortunately, our medicine, both phyiscal and psychological, is still pretty primative. We've learned a lot, especially in the last hundred years or so, but we're still not much advanced beyond leeches. We've got a long way to go. The problem is, do we just kill the ones who are sick, or do we try to me humane?
> 
> CD



I just don't trust the brain doctors and legal system to keep them alive and protect our kids from them too. Our current system has not prevented them from doing it again and again and again.


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## Emon_Essex (Feb 21, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> Because you say so? Ok, whatever. Why don't we be really civilised and not ever punish anyone at all because it would be "bad" and "mean"?
> 
> 
> 
> That's ok, guys like Essex want to help them get what they wanted. Put 'em away for a month for some useless therapy, then they are "cured" enough to go rape another kid.



No comment..


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 22, 2009)

Emon_Essex said:


> No comment..


You want me to feel sorry for people who hurt little kids and pay my tax money to give them free food and housing for life to reward them for it. I'm really unable to see where you are coming from. You obviously believe that the predators deserve a better, happier and more secure life than their victims get and that's pretty sad in my opinion. It makes me wonder if you value anything at all.


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## 109ROAMING (Feb 22, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> That's ok, guys like Essex want to help them get what they wanted. Put 'em away for a month for some useless therapy, then they are "cured" enough to go rape another kid.



100% agreed

Some people just can't be "cured" they will simply be released to rape/kill again

Those people should either be shot or never released


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## BombTaxi (Feb 22, 2009)

Clay, just because folks don't want these guys killed (and I'm one of them) doesn't mean we condone their actions. There are two issues at play here which you seem unable or unwilling to separate. One is that we _all_ feel that these bastards deserve the harshest possible treatment. Another is that some of us don't feel that killing someone is an appropriate punishment for crime, as it has been proven to have no deterrent value whatsoever, is impossible to revoke in the event of wrongful conviction, and is logically inconsistent as a means of enforcing the law (in murder cases, at least). 

To suggest that being against the death sentence equates to sympathy and support for paedophiles and a total lack of moral values is unfair and crass, IMHO. I fully agree that the harshest possible sanctions should be taken against these guys, but do not believe the death sentence should be one of the sanctions available. Prison isn't a reward for these guys, it's a damn good way of keeping them from re-offending without going to the lenghts of killing them


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 22, 2009)

BombTaxi said:


> Clay, just because folks don't want these guys killed (and I'm one of them) doesn't mean we condone their actions. There are two issues at play here which you seem unable or unwilling to separate. One is that we _all_ feel that these bastards deserve the harshest possible treatment. Another is that some of us don't feel that killing someone is an appropriate punishment for crime, as it has been proven to have no deterrent value whatsoever, is impossible to revoke in the event of wrongful conviction, and is logically inconsistent as a means of enforcing the law (in murder cases, at least).
> 
> To suggest that being against the death sentence equates to sympathy and support for paedophiles and a total lack of moral values is unfair and crass, IMHO. I fully agree that the harshest possible sanctions should be taken against these guys, but do not believe the death sentence should be one of the sanctions available. Prison isn't a reward for these guys, it's a damn good way of keeping them from re-offending without going to the lenghts of killing them


When they suspended the death penalty in Texas in the 1970s, several serial killers were released and they killed again, promises of safety by incarceration have always been lies. Their attorneys would always be there, appealing and trying to get them out, and they would get out, and they would do it again.

You call them "sick" and make excuses for their behavior. Then you open the door for some bleeding heart therapist to pronounce them "cured" and let them out of "treatment", unleashed on society because you don't know the difference between "sick" and "broken". These people are heartless sociopaths and they are good at telling mental health apologists what they want to hear. I'm not willing to take that risk.


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## BombTaxi (Feb 22, 2009)

You clearly aren't reading what I'm writing Clay. I said nothing about paedophiles being released - I fully support the concept of locking them up and throwing away the key. The problem Texas had wasn't that it stopped killing murderers, it was that it released them when they should have been kept inside. Of course there will be no 'safety in incarceration' in the individual in question isn't incarcerated  So you lock paedophiles up and you keep them locked up. My personal view is that these people are mentally ill, but in the absence of any cure for their condition, and given the danger they pose to the general public, I have no moral qualms with detaining them indefinitely, so long as that detention results from the due process of law.

Now, I have not opened any doors for any 'bleeding hearts' to 'unleash' any paedophiles on society. I am in fact agreeing with you that they need to be removed from society. Where we differ is on the exact form that removal should take. Please re-read my original post if you still cannot see this.


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 22, 2009)

BombTaxi said:


> You clearly aren't reading what I'm writing Clay. I said nothing about paedophiles being released - I fully support the concept of locking them up and throwing away the key. The problem Texas had wasn't that it stopped killing murderers, it was that it released them when they should have been kept inside. Of course there will be no 'safety in incarceration' in the individual in question isn't incarcerated  So you lock paedophiles up and you keep them locked up. My personal view is that these people are mentally ill, but in the absence of any cure for their condition, and given the danger they pose to the general public, I have no moral qualms with detaining them indefinitely, so long as that detention results from the due process of law.
> 
> Now, I have not opened any doors for any 'bleeding hearts' to 'unleash' any paedophiles on society. I am in fact agreeing with you that they need to be removed from society. Where we differ is on the exact form that removal should take. Please re-read my original post if you still cannot see this.


Because of the way the Supreme Court decision came down, all of their sentences were commuted to life, but because there was always a death penalty, Texas never had life-without-parole, and there was no legal way to add it on after the fact. We were forced to release them and their collective 19 victims were murdered in-effect by the Supreme Court. 

This is why I don't believe the false promises of eternal incarceration. There is always some civil liberties lawyer trying to get a writ of _Habeas Corpus_. Doesn't matter if it's a murderer, rapist, or terrorist, there is always a legitimate chance they will be released on some legal technicality and go back to what they were doing.


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## BombTaxi (Feb 22, 2009)

There is no 'false promise' of eternal incarceration if the law does not allow for it  Texas law-makers should have been smarter in drafting their law. Quite simply, legislation can be passed to make life mean life. But if you don't pass it (like Texas), you are quite right that anyone could be released again. So far, you haven't provided an argument for retaining the death sentence, only one for employing more competent legislators in Texas. 

I have two big issues with the death sentence. One is that it cannot be revoked in instances of wrongful conviction. The second is that, especially in the case of murder, it is completely inconsistent punishment. If murder is wrong, how can it be right for the state to murder someone as a means of punishing them for murder? Does this mean that judges are in, fact, getting away with murder by virtue of their role within the judicial system? To my mind, it seems illogical and inconsistent to punish someone for a crime by then committing the crime against them. It is a very mixed and unhelpful message, IMHO.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 23, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> You want me to feel sorry for people who hurt little kids and pay my tax money to give them free food and housing for life to reward them for it. I'm really unable to see where you are coming from. You obviously believe that the predators deserve a better, happier and more secure life than their victims get and that's pretty sad in my opinion. It makes me wonder if you value anything at all.



Hey chill the **** out! Do not put words in his mouth. Just because he does not agree with the death penalty does not mean that he supports them.

You do not have to get insulting because someone holds a different point of view than you. 

No where did he say that they deserve to be set free or anything. He only said he does not agree with the death penalty. That is his right!


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 23, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Hey chill the **** out! Do not put words in his mouth. Just because he does not agree with the death penalty does not mean that he supports them.
> 
> You do not have to get insulting because someone holds a different point of view than you.
> 
> No where did he say that they deserve to be set free or anything. He only said he does not agree with the death penalty. That is his right!


It is frustrating to me that some people think that the worst punishment someone should ever get is a lifetime of free food and cable TV in a comfortable room. As is exists now, prison is dangerous to child molesters, but these apologists want to change that too, unless they are of the odd opinion that the state can't kill people but the inmates can. 

Pardon me for wanting the worst creatures on planet earth to actually pay for their crimes, rather than being paid for them.



> If murder is wrong, how can it be right for the state to murder someone as a means of punishing them for murder? Does this mean that judges are in, fact, getting away with murder by virtue of their role within the judicial system? To my mind, it seems illogical and inconsistent to punish someone for a crime by then committing the crime against them. It is a very mixed and unhelpful message, IMHO.



This is such a massive logical fallacy. Just because you choose to call them both murder doesn't mean they are morally the same. Or is arresting someone morally equivalent to kidnapping? Is fining someone the same as theft? If not, why is execution murder? Either you agree that society has authority to act in ways that individuals cannot, or you don't. You want to draw a line like that and rob law abiding people of their tax money so that they can feed and house individuals that are nothing but a cancer to society, I don't.

I don't see why society should either tolerate the violent criminals in their midst, or pay to feed them. Why do we owe them anything? If you put them in prison and made it like South America where either people voluntarily donated food or they grew it themselves, I'm fine with that.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Feb 23, 2009)

At any rate, here's another victory against child prostitution. 
FBI, police rescue child prostitutes around US


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 24, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> It is frustrating to me that some people think that the worst punishment someone should ever get is a lifetime of free food and cable TV in a comfortable room. As is exists now, prison is dangerous to child molesters, but these apologists want to change that too, unless they are of the odd opinion that the state can't kill people but the inmates can.
> 
> Pardon me for wanting the worst creatures on planet earth to actually pay for their crimes, rather than being paid for them.



It is his point of view, get over it. Just like you think they should be killed, others do not. That is their right. What is so hard to understand about that? You might want to learn that others have a right to their own opinion.

Do not take me wrong, I am a supporter of the death penalty, but this is a forum and people are going to have different views.


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 24, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> It is his point of view, get over it. Just like you think they should be killed, others do not. That is their right. What is so hard to understand about that? You might want to learn that others have a right to their own opinion.
> 
> Do not take me wrong, I am a supporter of the death penalty, but this is a forum and people are going to have different views.


I'm not beating him up, you know. I'm just disagreeing in strong terms. I believe I'm entitled to strongly disagree and state my disagreements without sugarcoating my reasoning.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 25, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> I'm not beating him up, you know. I'm just disagreeing in strong terms. I believe I'm entitled to strongly disagree and state my disagreements without sugarcoating my reasoning.



Yes you can strongly disagree, but you put words in peoples mouths and frankly get rude! That is where I draw the line!


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 25, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Yes you can strongly disagree, but you put words in peoples mouths and frankly get rude! That is where I draw the line!


I think it was rude of him to start the conversation by calling me uncivilised for having different values. I didn't see you leaping to my defense. That arrogant start-off was why I answered with just as much venom. Read his first response. It wasn't exactly respectful disagreement either.


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## evangilder (Feb 26, 2009)

I don't give a tinker's damn who started it, this ends now. Capiche?


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 26, 2009)

evangilder said:


> I don't give a tinker's damn who started it, this ends now. Capiche?


*sigh* I made my point, I have nothing else to argue on the subject, my issue with Alder was off topic. I'm done.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 26, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> I think it was rude of him to start the conversation by calling me uncivilised for having different values. I didn't see you leaping to my defense. That arrogant start-off was why I answered with just as much venom. Read his first response. It wasn't exactly respectful disagreement either.



If I missed something, so be it. You know how many posts are on this forum? We moderators can not make everything.

As Eric pointed out, it is over!


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## Clay_Allison (Feb 28, 2009)

Who is Eric?


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## Catch22 (Feb 28, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> Who is Eric?



evangilder.


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