# ww2aircraft.net siggy...?



## Lucky13 (Oct 5, 2008)

It has been there since I become a member and possibly since this forum started... Is it time to change it, to something that shows more than just Luftwaffe machines?


----------



## Crunch (Oct 5, 2008)

You can do multiples and have them rotate randomly.


----------



## ScOoTeR1992 (Oct 5, 2008)

nah we need to have one that has both the allied and axis aircraft maybe a poll to see which ones?


----------



## Crunch (Oct 5, 2008)

If you have 5 or 6 and everytime you refresh it's different... Everyone's happy!

We've got that on a car forum I run, and it's a cool feature. Different car up there evertime!


----------



## Marcel (Oct 5, 2008)

I think we need some nice Fokkers in the Sig in stead of the boring standard Axis/Allied fighters


----------



## ScOoTeR1992 (Oct 5, 2008)

nah man spitfires no fokker come close


----------



## Thorlifter (Oct 5, 2008)

I think it's ok to ask about it, but it's up to Horse and the moderators to decide if it should be changed. I know there are a fair number of us that can throw our idea's into a new banner, but's that's not my decision to make.

In my humble opinion, I think the one we have is fine. However, I do have idea's if the decision is made to change it.


----------



## 109ROAMING (Oct 6, 2008)

I agree Lucky


----------



## Marcel (Oct 6, 2008)

ScOoTeR1992 said:


> nah man spitfires no fokker come close



Booring, you can see spits everywhere, I would suggest Fiat Cr.42, Fokker D.XXI, He112, IAR 80, D520 etc.


----------



## Gnomey (Oct 6, 2008)

If we are going to do it. I think it would be a idea for a start to keep the current one. In addition we create some more showing of various different types of aircraft with different themes (in tune with each aircraft) and set these on a rotation so that a different one is shown on each page refresh (as someone has already mentioned).

Another thing which might be idea if someone has time (a fair amount of it) would be to create some backgrounds...


----------



## Becca (Oct 6, 2008)

Maybe conduct a poll..among the Senior members or something to that effect on which aircraft...etc. 

Tis the season for Democracy..and all.


----------



## Thorlifter (Oct 6, 2008)

Nice new siggy Becca!!!!! I like.


----------



## 109ROAMING (Oct 7, 2008)

Same here!


----------



## Wurger (Oct 7, 2008)

With me...


----------



## Airframes (Oct 7, 2008)

Certainly agree, it's a really neat Lib.


----------



## Njaco (Oct 7, 2008)

I agree with Thor. The current one is fine. But maybe we can toss ideas around.


----------



## Lucky13 (Oct 8, 2008)

It's nice alright, don't get me wrong.... But, it's only Luftwaffe, should USAAF, RAF and a few others be represented too?


----------



## 109ROAMING (Oct 8, 2008)

I'd like to see some RAAF and RNZAF stuff

couple P-40's be nice

look abit better to if it was about a cm higher and everything wasn't see through


----------



## Wurger (Oct 8, 2008)

As my memory serves about two years ago there was the similar thread where the current one was accepted.There were other projests as well.The main problem with the forum siggy is the banner dimensions.But we can try to make a new one with all representants.


----------



## Becca (Oct 8, 2008)

Sorry guys, just checked in on this thread, again..Thank you!  I love it!

Marcel did an amazing job!


----------



## Doubl3Ac3 (Oct 8, 2008)

Hmm how about we turn it into a contest? have a couple of us submit entries and have the whole site vote on what one is the best to represent us all?


----------



## Marcel (Oct 9, 2008)

I did like the herring though


----------



## Wildcat (Oct 9, 2008)

I like Scooters idea about a rotating banner, that way there could be a banner representing most of the major Air Forces of WWII. Then everybody's happy.


----------



## Messy1 (Oct 9, 2008)

Les'Bride love the sig. That is awesome! What's the name of the plane?


----------



## Thorlifter (Oct 9, 2008)

Messy, it's a B-24 Liberator named Strawberry B!tch.


----------



## Messy1 (Oct 9, 2008)

Ok, now i can see it. I couldn't make out the strawberry. cool as hell!


----------



## 109ROAMING (Oct 9, 2008)

Wildcat said:


> I like Scooters idea about a rotating banner, that way there could be a banner representing most of the major Air Forces of WWII. Then everybody's happy.



The best Idea I've heard

that'd be cool


----------



## Wurger (Oct 14, 2008)

Sounds good to me.


----------



## Thorlifter (Oct 14, 2008)

Again, I'm not promoting a new website siggy, but I was bored at lunch and threw some of these together just for ideas. You know, throw it up against the wall and see what sticks!!!


----------



## Njaco (Oct 14, 2008)

I really like the first but blend the edges like the others. Cool job!!


----------



## Thorlifter (Oct 14, 2008)

Yeah, I can. I was just offering some different looks. Of the 4, I like the 2nd and 3rd one the best.


----------



## Wurger (Oct 14, 2008)

Well done Thor...   

And here my attempt.


----------



## Marcel (Oct 15, 2008)

Nice and not as crowded as the current one.


----------



## Wurger (Oct 15, 2008)

Yep you are right.That's a pity we are limited by the banner dimensions.I was going to make it in a little bit different way but...


----------



## Marcel (Oct 15, 2008)

How about showing the international character pof the site. I just choose the planes as I had them at hand, could be any a/c of course:


----------



## Lucky13 (Oct 15, 2008)

...and if not aircraft. How about faces of famous pilots?


----------



## Marcel (Oct 15, 2008)

3 problems: 
1. which ones to choose
2. avarage people won't recognise them
3. vertical resolution of the sig is 105, which is probably too small for delicate face features.


----------



## Wurger (Oct 15, 2008)

Both are interesting ideas.But I'm not sure if all people here want to see these faces for all time.


----------



## Marcel (Oct 15, 2008)




----------



## B-17engineer (Oct 15, 2008)

haha


----------



## Wurger (Oct 15, 2008)




----------



## comiso90 (Oct 15, 2008)

My turn..
You'll never make everyone happy and elaborate montages get messy quickly. I prefer bold imagery.. who cares which nation the aircraft belong to0?.. the Corsair has an emblematic shape!


----------



## Wurger (Oct 15, 2008)

Looking very good.


----------



## Thorlifter (Oct 15, 2008)

Ah, Nice Comiso.


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 15, 2008)

Thanks guys.. a tag line is always good...
I adjusted the prop blur more..

.


----------



## Njaco (Oct 15, 2008)

I really like Wurger's first greenie. Great! But Cosimos is good also.

Marcel, that was great!!!


----------



## Lucky13 (Oct 15, 2008)

You better C that one!


----------



## Marcel (Oct 16, 2008)

comiso90 said:


> My turn..
> You'll never make everyone happy and elaborate montages get messy quickly. I prefer bold imagery.. who cares which nation the aircraft belong to0?.. the Corsair has an emblematic shape!



The second one is very good  Maybe another font though?


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 16, 2008)

Marcel said:


> The second one is very good  Maybe another font though?



Thanks Marcel.. do you have a PC font to suggest? I'll incorporate your recommendation. I like the font I chose cause it makes it look like a movie poster.. classic and stylish. I didn't want to be too dramatic or over designed.

Please help refine..


----------



## Marcel (Oct 16, 2008)

Well,the font type is all right and it should be something like this one, but the edges look very blocky to me. Maybe making the font little smoother would cure that?


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 16, 2008)

Personal taste, if you like I can e-mail u the Photoshop files so they can be tweeked.

I like the "blocky" font. It's strong, authoritative and has an inherit homage to history - it fits warfare but with some style. I dont think friendly smooth fonts fit WW2 aircraft.

Like I said.. personal taste!


----------



## Marcel (Oct 16, 2008)

Of course it's personal taste as all of it is.  What I mean with blocky is that you can really see that the lines do exist of pixels (sorry, can't say it better, language problems  ) When I get home I could look up a font like that that is a little smoother on the edges.


----------



## Njaco (Oct 16, 2008)

I agree with Cosimo, the font looks sharp.


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 16, 2008)

Marcel said:


> What I mean with blocky is that you can really see that the lines do exist of pixels (sorry, can't say it better, language problems



Ahhh yes... I see that. Good eye. In graphic parlance, it isn't "aliased" properly. I can probably fix it by rasterizing before I collapse the layer...
here ya go:

much better

.


----------



## Thorlifter (Oct 16, 2008)

Much better. I'm sure between the 6 or 7 of us that do this stuff, we could come up with 100's of these.

Nothing wrong with the one we have though. But it is fun to come up with ideas like the one's we have posted.


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 16, 2008)

Yeah,... I shouldnt have let the aliasing get by me... rookie mistake.  

I'm not a fan of the existing banner... I'd really like to see it change. 

I'd like to see 5 different mod-approved graphics posted and let the masses vote on the winner.

.


----------



## Lucky13 (Oct 16, 2008)

As someone has already mentioned....if would do something that swap for each time that we change page....how about making them each for the Eastern, Western, Pacific and Mediterranean fronts....?
Just playing with different ideas here....


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 16, 2008)

Lucky13 said:


> As someone has already mentioned....if would do something that swap for each time that we change page....how about making them each for the Eastern, Western, Pacific and Mediterranean fronts....?
> Just playing with different ideas here....



Thats a good idea but I disagree. IMO, We see this site every day and for regular users it would be fun to rotate the Mast Head but the Mast Head (siggy), is the image that brands the site. Consistency is important for casual users. It conveys stability and professionalism. Theres nothing wrong with changing the Mast Head every few years but not more frequently then that.

It shouldnt look like a different site every time some one stops by.

In effect, the Mast Head is tantamount to being the sites logo... It should look good on letterhead, coffee mug or a T-shirt.

Lest we forget... this site is generating money. All the ads you see result in a couple bucks going to the someone. The Mast Head is more then a cool graphic, it is an image branding device and no business would change its image wantonly...

.


----------



## Marcel (Oct 16, 2008)

comiso90 said:


> Ahhh yes... I see that. Good eye. In graphic parlance, it isn't "aliased" properly. I can probably fix it by rasterizing before I collapse the layer...
> here ya go:
> 
> much better
> ...



Yep, "aliased" is the word I was looking for. Sorry I didn't express myself better, sometimes English can be difficult for me and in graphics I'm just an amateur 

This one looks really great.


----------



## Thorlifter (Oct 16, 2008)

I have to agree with both Lucky and Comiso. It would be cool to see it changing all the time to see some of the work people put into the site.

On the otherhand, a stable banner may be best, in which case the one we have needs to stay put. Do you want to see Dell and Sears, and Ford changing their logo every week? Yes, I know that is on a completely different scale than a website, but it's the same principle.

With as much fun as I would have making new banners, if I had a vote (and I don't) I would vote to leave it as is.


----------



## Marcel (Oct 16, 2008)

Hmmm, most companies adjust their logo's every few years or so. A new one shouldn't hurt. I agree with comiso that the current one is not very good, much to crowded. A clear, simple but sophisticated sig would be better.


----------



## B-17engineer (Oct 16, 2008)

Who made the last Signature anyway?


----------



## Catch22 (Oct 18, 2008)

Hmm, interesting! I'll make one tomorrow.


----------



## 109ROAMING (Oct 19, 2008)

I like comiso's original idea the best

I agree with what you say about it ,has that really whats the word....classic? look to it


----------



## Doubl3Ac3 (Oct 22, 2008)

well im throw my 2 cents into this as well with a couple. this is the first of mine







i tried to make it look sorta classic


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 23, 2008)

Nice composition but i like your siggy better.. I thing a masthead has to have some color. I like the vertical "video' lines. very nice

But no mods have shown interest... is all for naught?
..


----------



## Doubl3Ac3 (Oct 23, 2008)

i think they are just sitting back talking about it. And yeah thanks scanlines are one of the easiest things to do in photoshop


----------



## Wurger (Oct 23, 2008)

Take it easy men..I keep my eye on you and the thread..


----------



## Lucky13 (Oct 23, 2008)

Yeah...we still have the almighty siggy master checking in...!


----------



## Wurger (Oct 23, 2008)




----------



## 109ROAMING (Oct 24, 2008)

Doubl3Ac3 said:


> well im throw my 2 cents into this as well with a couple. this is the first of mine
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm liking it! liking it alot!

only one suggestion from me,and that is to make the 2 in ww2 the same size as the ww's ,like this WW2

anyway Nice!


----------



## Thorlifter (Oct 24, 2008)

I believe the 2 being larger is just keeping with the current text, which is all lower case.


----------



## lesofprimus (Oct 24, 2008)

This looks badass and has my vote..... I like it alot..... I also like the idea of 5 rotating images, with this being one of them.....


----------



## Lucky13 (Oct 24, 2008)

Love the Corsair one Comiso, even though it's a Korean War F4U-4!  It's a keeper, I think! 8)


----------



## B-17engineer (Oct 24, 2008)

I like it Les!


----------



## Thorlifter (Oct 24, 2008)

What are your thoughts about something like this?


----------



## Njaco (Oct 25, 2008)

Cosimo, what if you took that banner you made and instead of the Corsair, make several - keeping the exact layout - but with different aircraft from the major countries involved. You could keep the sameness for recognition while showing the different aircraft. Have the different aircraft in the exact pose as the Corsair. Only the plane changes, nothing else. That might work?


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 25, 2008)

lesofprimus said:


> This looks badass and has my vote..... I like it alot..... I also like the idea of 5 rotating images, with this being one of them.....



You have good taste for a Navy guy!

 
.


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 25, 2008)

Njaco said:


> Cosimo, what if you took that banner you made and instead of the Corsair, make several - keeping the exact layout - but with different aircraft from the major countries involved. You could keep the sameness for recognition while showing the different aircraft. Have the different aircraft in the exact pose as the Corsair. Only the plane changes, nothing else. That might work?



I actually tried to do that already but I wasnt able to find other photos I liked as much. In addition to the angle of the Corsair, I like it's color. The bluish tint It goes well with the burnt orange background. Sure I can tint any photo but it's more natural with the corsair

Also, using more photos could raise permission issues. I dont want to get anyone sued! If you have a photo u want me to try, I'll be happy to plop it in.

or here is the photshop file:

also the compass and bullets could be switch out or deleted.

For any of you guys that are new to photoshop, you may want to download the .PSD to see how it is built. I used transfer modes, layer masks, radial blurs and perspective tools...

.

.


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 25, 2008)

Thorlifter said:


> What are your thoughts about something like this?



I like the font.. classic art deco feel.

The design reminds me of Eddie Van Halens guitar


----------



## Lucky13 (Oct 25, 2008)

We like Art Deco style...!


----------



## Njaco (Oct 26, 2008)

Cosimo, couldn't somebody who takes screen shots of say, IL-2, get the right pose for the siggy? Just an idea.


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 26, 2008)

Sure.... If you dont mind a gaming look... I like real photos


----------



## GrauGeist (Oct 26, 2008)

There are plenty of actual photos of aircraft that can represent the participating nations of WWII well enough without the worry of infringement.

The idea of using IL-2 aircraft is a good one, but the game's aircraft detail can't compare to the read deal.

I like Comiso's layout, and you could perhaps make a model specific background in the style he's already done, like for example: a B-17's profile could have a background montage of maps, bomb silouettes and some generic noseart, a Bf109 could have a knight's cross and a pilot's helmet gloves in the background and a F4F Wildcat could have a few tropical snapshots, goggles and some .50 caliber bullets in the background...

Just an idea


----------



## Lucky13 (Oct 26, 2008)

Sounds good to me!


----------



## Wurger (Oct 27, 2008)

For me as well.


----------



## 109ROAMING (Oct 28, 2008)

Me too!


----------



## Doubl3Ac3 (Oct 29, 2008)

lesofprimus said:


> This looks badass and has my vote..... I like it alot..... I also like the idea of 5 rotating images, with this being one of them.....



Yeah i got a similar pic of that Corsair i'll pull it up for ya here


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 29, 2008)

Thats a good one... we should be carful about using in authorized art work though.


----------



## Catch22 (Oct 29, 2008)

GrauGeist said:


> There are plenty of actual photos of aircraft that can represent the participating nations of WWII well enough without the worry of infringement.
> 
> The idea of using IL-2 aircraft is a good one, but the game's aircraft detail can't compare to the read deal.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I like it because that way you can adjust the colours and such depending on the aircraft and its colours. While I like real photos, I think Il-2 screenies would be the safest route as we can get exactly what we want without being worried about copyright issues. I'll download cosimo's PSD tommorrow and take a peek. I'd rather have it on my Mac since I use it more and this PC's kinda slow.

And my only suggestion from just looking at it cosimo is lessen the blur on the Corsair. Keep it, but just lessen it a little bit just so it's a little easier on the eyes.


----------



## Catch22 (Oct 29, 2008)

One other thought: What about having 6 of these? I was thinking 2 US, 2 British and 2 Axis? Or maybe just 2 German? I don't want to underrepresent the Japanese as they were major players and had some fine looking planes.


----------



## Doubl3Ac3 (Nov 4, 2008)

im sure he can do that if not he could send me over the pic and i could give it a good once over


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 4, 2008)

comiso90 said:


> But no mods have shown interest... is all for naught?
> ..



It is not that I do not have interest. I am just reading everything and taking it all in.

Now having said that, here are my 2 cents:

1. I like the idea of 5 rotating images with a different aircraft representing a different nation.

2. I *do not* like the idea of using Il-2 screen shots or any graphics from any game. Why? Because even though this site has a gaming section, games are not the main purpose of this site. I do not want people to think this is a pure gaming site and then the interest in the real aircraft becomes 2nd fiddle.


----------



## Thorlifter (Nov 4, 2008)

I figured the mods were watching just to see where this would go. Adler or any other mod...........has this been discussed with Horse? Any input from him?

If we go with a 5 plane rotation, these would be my 1st choice to see.

USA - B17
England - Spitfire 
Japan - Zero
Germany - Bf-109
Russia - Il-2

2nd choice
USA - Pick a fighter (F4U, P-51, P-47, F6F)
England - (Hurricane or Lancaster)
Japan - G4M Betty
Germany - Stuka
Russia - Yak-3


----------



## comiso90 (Nov 4, 2008)

Thorlifter said:


> I figured the mods were watching just to see where this would go. Adler or any other mod...........has this been discussed with Horse? Any input from him?
> 
> If we go with a 5 plane rotation, these would be my 1st choice to see.
> 
> ...



All this may be done at the expense of aesthetics. 
ww2aircraft.net should be treated like a business with a brandible ID. If multiple aircraft are used than there must be a standardized unifying theme...(color, font- a template) The different mast heads have to look like they're representing the same site. They have to look VERY similar. This is difficult to do when you're starting with a list of specific aircraft. Some photos will be in color, some B&W-the styles may not match. Some pics will have a higher resolution then others. Not every nation needs to be represented... consistency between the mastheads will be a challenge.

*Pick a good design that screams "WARBIRDS" and If you happen to find aircraft that fit the template then plug them in...

It is a mistake to start out determined to make specific aircraft work. Any ww2 warbird is fair game... who cares where its from. *

Dont let politics ruin the aesthetics!


----------



## Thorlifter (Nov 4, 2008)

I was simply making a suggestion of planes I would like to see, not trying to set in stone the ones that MUST be used. You say all WW2 planes are fair game, and I agree. My point was I'd rather see a B-17 than a Po-2. Adler mentioned 5 different panels. I was just picking 5 planes I like from 5 different countries.

You also said....._The different mast heads have to look like they're representing the same site. They have to look VERY similar. This is difficult to do._

I Agree, except for the last sentence. It's easy to do. In photoshop you set the border, text, plane, etc., then just change the plane. Everything else stays identical. Just like post #76 in this thread. All I did was change the color. It's simple to change the plane, leave everything else, and the aesthetics stay in tacked.


----------



## comiso90 (Nov 4, 2008)

Thorlifter said:


> I was simply making a suggestion of planes I would like to see, not trying to set in stone the ones that MUST be used. You say all WW2 planes are fair game, and I agree. My point was I'd rather see a B-17 than a Po-2. Adler mentioned 5 different panels. I was just picking 5 planes I like from 5 different countries.
> 
> You also said....._The different mast heads have to look like they're representing the same site. They have to look VERY similar. This is difficult to do._
> 
> I Agree, except for the last sentence. It's easy to do. In photoshop you set the border, text, plane, etc., then just change the plane. Everything else stays identical. Just like post #76 in this thread. All I did was change the color. It's simple to change the plane, leave everything else, and the aesthetics stay in tacked.



Thats my point, A Po-2 is just as valid as a B-17 and if aesthetically the resolution, shot angle, color ect fits the template better then the Po-2 should be used! 

>>It's easy to do. In photoshop you set the border, text, plane, etc., then just change the plane. Everything else stays identical. Just like post #76 in this thread. All I did was change the color. It's simple to change the plane, leave everything else, and the aesthetics stay in tacked.

I'm sorry but your standards are different then mine. I very much disagree. How long have you been a professional designer?

.


----------



## Thorlifter (Nov 4, 2008)

comiso90 said:


> I'm sorry but your standards are different then mine. I very much disagree. How long have you been a professional designer?.



WHAT????

I'm agreeing with you....... You said they all have to look alike and I said I agree.

I don't have to be a professional designer to know what I like.

All I said is it's easy to leave the layout the same but change the plane.


----------



## comiso90 (Nov 4, 2008)

Thorlifter said:


> All I said is it's easy to leave the layout the same but change the plane.



And that is precisely what I'm disagreeing with. That is a short statement that represents ALOT!

It's easy to do but not always easy to make look good. Thats why a Po-2 should be used over a B-17 if the composition works better.


----------



## pbfoot (Nov 4, 2008)

with the folks on this site we should be able to source our own photos . select a few guys that have the skill with photo shop and ask for a fewsubmissions from the various members for consideration and see what transpires 
for my RAF I give you


----------



## Njaco (Nov 5, 2008)

Sorry, Adler, I agree. I only brought up Il-2 or such because to get the same angle of pic for each masthead. Sometimes its difficult getting the different machines to pose in the same way in real life. But you made a great point.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 6, 2008)

I say people should start coming up with designs, and we can see where this goes.


----------



## Lucky13 (Feb 28, 2009)

Just thought that I'd bring this thread back to life, so see what's what....8)


----------



## lesofprimus (Feb 28, 2009)

Horse has disappeared off the radar again... Doesnt seem like any changes have happened in some time.....


----------



## Njaco (Feb 28, 2009)

Wheres the thread where the examples were?


----------



## Lucky13 (Feb 28, 2009)

They're here Chris, you just have to back a few pages...


----------



## Njaco (Feb 28, 2009)

I can't find them. I really do think they're in another thread. The .gif with the different planes - like Cosimos Corsair.


----------



## Lucky13 (Mar 1, 2009)

There's a few Corsairs here as wellmate....


----------



## Marcel (Mar 1, 2009)

Njaco said:


> I can't find them. I really do think they're in another thread. The .gif with the different planes - like Cosimos Corsair.



it's in the "personal galery" section:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/personal-gallery/time-new-banner-pics-15956.html


----------



## Lucky13 (Mar 1, 2009)

...and Marcel saves the day! Thanks buddy!


----------



## Thorlifter (May 18, 2009)

Ok, somewhere around here Les has a thread where he started talking about the new site siggy, but this one isn't it. Can someone help me out finding it?


----------



## Gnomey (May 18, 2009)

Marcel said:


> it's in the "personal galery" section:
> http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/personal-gallery/time-new-banner-pics-15956.html



^


----------



## Thorlifter (May 18, 2009)

Thanks Gnomey. I didn't see the link above!


----------



## Marcel (May 18, 2009)

Thorlifter said:


> Thanks Gnomey. I didn't see the link above!



Ah yes, ignore the Dutch. You American with your big country, a little country noth worth your attention eh? Eh?


----------



## Thorlifter (May 18, 2009)

Dang Marcel, you found me out..............wait...........why am I talking to you?


----------



## comiso90 (May 29, 2009)

"Clean Blue" is getting way old....
throw any banner up.... PLEASE!!!


----------



## Njaco (May 29, 2009)

I can only wonder what guests think when looking for a warbird site and find "Clean Blue"!


----------



## comiso90 (May 29, 2009)

Njaco said:


> I can only wonder what guests think when looking for a warbird site and find "Clean Blue"!



yeah... it's a site dedicated to "Toilet Cakes" or "Urinal Mints"..

I bet traffic is down.. bad for pay per click earnings.

.


----------



## wheelsup_cavu (May 30, 2009)

Njaco said:


> I can only wonder what guests think when looking for a warbird site and find "Clean Blue"!
> 
> 
> comiso90 said:
> ...





Wheelsup


----------

