# Red Tails Movie



## tbfighterpilot (Dec 19, 2011)

I wasn't sure where to put this, but what are people thinking about the new movie about the Tuskegee Airmen? 
Red Tails
RedTailsMovie's Channel - YouTube
The Tuskegee Airmen were great at protecting the bombers, but they couldn't keep everything off the heavies. In one trailer someone says something like, "1 bomber lost that's 10 lives. We count our victories by the bombers that we get to the target. By the husbands we return to their wifes. By the fathers we return to their children." I do think that they kind of saying, the escorts that weren't the 332nd were doing a horrible job.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 20, 2011)

I am sure this movie will add to the myth that the 332nd never lost a bomber. 

While they did an amazing job, especially for a country that segregated them, they did lose bombers...


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## kettbo (Dec 20, 2011)

I'll be watching the movie soon with my son, age 20.
WW2 movies, especially air movies, are getting fewer to come by


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## Wayne Little (Dec 20, 2011)

sure i will check it out when it gets here...


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## Thorlifter (Dec 20, 2011)

I said the same thing in Shinpachi's post about the WWII movie made by a Korean. Visually, it looks spectacular and I can't wait to see it. Completely agree with Adler.


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## tbfighterpilot (Dec 20, 2011)

> I am sure this movie will add to the myth that the 332nd never lost a bomber.
> 
> While they did an amazing job, especially for a country that segregated them, they did lose bombers...


There is one part in the preview where they say stuff about 1 bomber lost is 10 lives lost.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 20, 2011)

tbfighterpilot said:


> There is one part in the preview where they say stuff about 1 bomber lost is 10 lives lost.



What I am referring to is the popular myth that they never lost a bomber they escorted.


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## Arossihman (Dec 22, 2011)

Looks fun to watch at least but i can't really make any guesses yet on its potrayl on what actually happened in those times.


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## lindsay (Dec 22, 2011)

It does look fun to watch. It might look ok on the big screen! Hope the Computer Graphics don't spoil it! At the moment, any aviation movie will be a bonus!! Does anyone know when the Dambusters movie will be released?


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 26, 2011)

I did see a preview, I have to admit the GCI is pretty sweet.


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## Trebor (Jan 14, 2012)

here's something interesting: George Lucas: Hollywood Didn't Want To Fund 'Red Tails' Because Of Its Black Cast (VIDEO)


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## iron man (Jan 14, 2012)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> What I am referring to is the popular myth that they never lost a bomber they escorted.



Don't know if you guys here have read this...it fits better in the "Were the Tuskeegee's the bestest ever" thread, but that's now locked.

Some interesting info from primary sources.


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## evangilder (Jan 14, 2012)

tbfighterpilot said:


> There is one part in the preview where they say stuff about 1 bomber lost is 10 lives lost.



What that means is that if 1 bomber does get shot down, there are 10 people on that airplane. Potentially 10 lives lost, but more likely some killed and some POWs.


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## vikingBerserker (Jan 15, 2012)

iron man said:


> Don't know if you guys here have read this...it fits better in the "Were the Tuskeegee's the bestest ever" thread, but that's now locked.
> 
> Some interesting info from primary sources.



That was excellent!


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## Wildcat (Jan 15, 2012)

iron man said:


> Don't know if you guys here have read this...it fits better in the "Were the Tuskeegee's the bestest ever" thread, but that's now locked.
> 
> Some interesting info from primary sources.



An interesting read. Thanks!


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## BikerBabe (Jan 15, 2012)

Trebor said:


> here's something interesting: George Lucas: Hollywood Didn't Want To Fund 'Red Tails' Because Of Its Black Cast (VIDEO)



There are several articles about that in the danish newspapers these days.
To me, it just say a lot about Hollywood's huge lack of imagination and respect in some areas.
I don't care what color people are, courage is courage!
And even more so in this case, where the pilots really had to fight _both _racism _and _the enemy.
Damn.


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## tyrodtom (Jan 15, 2012)

I not so sure it necessarily lack of respect on Hollywood's part. It's mostly black cast and theme might have a limited appeal outside of black audiences, that very appeal might keep some away. If there's no big crowds, there's no big MONEY.
Most on this forum will probably see it because it's about aviation, but it might not have much of a pull on the majority of the theater going public.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 15, 2012)

iron man said:


> Don't know if you guys here have read this...it fits better in the "Were the Tuskeegee's the bestest ever" thread, but that's now locked.
> 
> Some interesting info from primary sources.



Very good read. 

I think that it should be required reading for anyone interested in the topic, history or myth.


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## Erich (Jan 15, 2012)

viewed the trailer too many times historical inaccurate is the word markings as well as combat tactics and of course the snap roll and shooting down of the 109 within 3 seconds also catching up with a 262 going through the bomber stream an absolute no, no. Really not too sure this is going to add or take away from the 332nd fg legacy, I can see it actually do more harm than good


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## Matt308 (Jan 15, 2012)

BikerBabe said:


> There are several articles about that in the danish newspapers these days.
> To me, it just say a lot about Hollywood's huge lack of imagination and respect in some areas.
> .



Don't you believe it. It's all about money, not the color of the cast. While us on this forum may find the subject fascinating, most people on the planet will just yawn.


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## TheMustangRider (Jan 15, 2012)

I pretty much agree with the majority of members here: 
- It wont be a perfect movie in terms of accuracy.
- It probably wont have a great impact on the average viewer outside our relatively small community.
- Since it's a WWII movie and a dedicated aviation movie; it's worth taking a look at it.

I'm looking forward to see B-17s escorted by P-51s on the big screen, it might be years or decades before another WWII aviation movie can make it to the big screen.


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## Trebor (Jan 15, 2012)

I, personally would like to see a movie abou the battle of Y49


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## pbfoot (Jan 15, 2012)

Not familiar with y 49 ?


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## Erich (Jan 15, 2012)

Pb

he probably means Y-29 at Asch with the 352nd fg against JG 11 on 1-1-45


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## Trebor (Jan 15, 2012)

right, Y-29. my mistake. lol but yeah, I saw that on dogfights, and I believe it was one of the greatest battles the Blue nosed Bastards of Bodney fought


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## Njaco (Jan 16, 2012)

Like Erich, I cringed at the trailer. I've seen better CGI on "Call of Duty".


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## bobbysocks (Jan 16, 2012)

i cant say honestly that hollywood's reluctance to back it was race. there have been many all african american cast movies that have done exceedingly well....granted, none were WW2 based. But remember were already several red tail movies....nightfighter 1994, the tuskeegee airmen 1995 2003. it would be like making the same movie or event ( not a sequel ) for the 4th the time in under 20 years....when have you seen that happen? so from the stand point of its already been done and not too long ago i can see why they really had to be sold on the idea. from the trailers, like erich said, the flight models that they have are just too fantastic. a 262 out rolling a red bull racer...a 51 flipping on a dime in a stall to take out a 109. what gets me is they have the looks of the planes down pat....why ruin it with dramatics. they had the PLANES too....they could have very easily wired them up and recorded their actual flight characteristics...but what where would the sensationalism be in that. the long and the short is its not really about the planes or the war. its selling a underdog placed in a bad situation who must rise above all conflicts and save the day or be victorious...its the same story line as say Rocky. please i am not trying to cast any bad light or diminish anything of what these men did. they went and fought and died for their country and deserve all the respect and honor for that sacrifice....the same as any other joe that was there.


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## tbfighterpilot (Jan 17, 2012)

George Lucas said that if the first movie is a success that he has a prequel and sequel planned that will be better than the first.


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## vikingBerserker (Jan 17, 2012)

Now that's interesting.


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## Crimea_River (Jan 17, 2012)

tbfighterpilot said:


> George Lucas said that if the first movie is a success that he has a prequel and sequel planned that will be better than the first.



Easy to say when he knows it'll be out on DVD within 3 weeks of release.


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## mikewint (Jan 18, 2012)

Have not seen the movie but the trailers are far from reality. There was an interview with one of the original pilots on the news and I loved his comment. The TV news guy asked about the reality aspects of the movie: "Well I'd say about 90% hollywood and 10% reality" As has been said it's all about money.
Last comment: Lucas tends to do things in trilogy format, i.e. Star Wars, a trilogy of trilogys.


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## tbfighterpilot (Jan 22, 2012)

> Last comment: Lucas tends to do things in trilogy format, i.e. Star Wars, a trilogy of trilogys.


Yes, but George Lucas also said he was retiring.
George Lucas retiring from blockbusters after 'Red Tails?' | al.com
And I saw the movie yesterday,and for anyone who hasn't seen it, this could spoil it,but it did add to the legend of them never losing a bomber.


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## Erich (Jan 22, 2012)

it really is crime and a shame that Lucas and his team would not try hard to get reality into play - colors/markings of A/C, combat techniques and the ever continuing falsehood of the unit never losing a Bomber


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## bobbysocks (Jan 22, 2012)

so what did you think of it, tbfighterpilot ???


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## TheMustangRider (Jan 22, 2012)

tbfighterpilot said:


> And I saw the movie yesterday,and for anyone who hasn't seen it, this could spoil it,but it did add to the legend of them never losing a bomber.



Well, it is Hollywood we are dealing after all.
I might go see it tomorrow and I'm quite excited about it, not because of the movie but because my brother got us free entrance passes, sweet!


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## oldcrowcv63 (Jan 23, 2012)

Trebor said:


> here's something interesting: George Lucas: Hollywood Didn't Want To Fund 'Red Tails' Because Of Its Black Cast (VIDEO)



Once again, Hollywood fails a history test. Big surprise. The clip shown by John Stewart contains the quote by a Red Tail aviator to another, "Congratulations, You are the first negro to shoot down a Jerry." Now, if ever that comment was made in reality, its believable because so much of US Black history was lost to us all, but especially to blacks wrt to military matters. However, if fictional, the statement shouldn't have been made unless it included the caveat, "since the First World War." I recall seeing a film a few years ago entitled _*Flyboys*_. I was surprised to see a black aviator among the squadron's members named Eugene Skinner, at the time (and to my own discredit), I scoffed and believed it was just Hollywood being politically correct although the prospect of an american pioneer black aviator was certainly a compelling and attractive notion (I mean what could be more Horatio Alger!!!). Subsequently I came across the account of Eugene Bullard, reputed to be a fine american pilot, known during his service as "_the black swallow of death_", and credited with shooting down a number of "_Jerries_". Here was an original member of the Lafayette Escadrille who also happened to be black. I was happy that Hollywood in this rare case had gotten at least that much right and appalled that another element of our country's rich aviation history had been nearly lost. While appropriately lauded in France for his daring and skill, use of his talents were rejected when he volunteered for US army service and on his eventual return to the US he was unheralded and died in obscurity as an elevator operator at Rockafella Center. He was also a resistence fighter in France during WWII. 

Eugene Bullard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To Eugene Bullard, Pioneer aviator and skilled fighter pilot


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## vikingBerserker (Jan 23, 2012)

Good point. The National Museum of the USAF actually had a nice blurb about him in a write up. Apparently has was also the only black fighter pilot in WW1 (I didn't know that either).

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070319-145.pdf


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## tbfighterpilot (Jan 23, 2012)

> so what did you think of it, tbfighterpilot ???



It was a good movie, entertaining, but as many of you have said, it had incorrect information. The closest thing to losing a bomber only came when Me-262s came, and a B-17 lost 1 engine. I also noticed that there were no Fw-190s, or B-24s.


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## pbfoot (Jan 23, 2012)

vikingBerserker said:


> Good point. The National Museum of the USAF actually had a nice blurb about him in a write up. Apparently has was also the only black fighter pilot in WW1 (I didn't know that either).
> 
> http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070319-145.pdf


Only black American I believe the RFC had a few can't speak for the French or other participants. I just read about a RAF guy doing his training in Florida in WW2 who was almost washed out for talking to a black server in the mess


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## oldcrowcv63 (Jan 24, 2012)

vikingBerserker said:


> Good point. The National Museum of the USAF actually had a nice blurb about him in a write up. Apparently has was also the only black fighter pilot in WW1 (I didn't know that either).
> http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070319-145.pdf



Thanks Vik!, I still teach occasionally at a nearby Historically Black University (Elizabeth City State University) This is good motivational stuff I can share with my students! Incidently, their sports teams are the ECSU _Vikings_, don't ask me why. I haven't quite figured that out except there is a lot of water around here.

They have an aviation program on campus that is one of the schools most popular curriculums. The girls are crazy about it too. You get an opportunity to learn to fly. A very _hands on_ program.


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## mikewint (Jan 24, 2012)

That Lucas may retire is possible but sequels are like warts and don't have to be by the originators. Again money talks. I can easily see a prequel and a postquel to this movie. Lucas had planned three more star wars movies which would have dealt with the decline of the new republic and would have used a totally new cast but the money just was not there after III Revenge of the Sith did not do well.


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## TomM (Jan 25, 2012)

A total waste of money!!!! If you want to feel "stupeder" after 2 hours of your time - be my guest.

Only the CGI was good, and it was historically incorrect.

Save your money, and wait for it on cable or Redbox. That will be in a month or two.


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## kettbo (Jan 28, 2012)

I took my 20 year old son to see the movie tonight
Sure it had inaccuracies, occasional corny dialog, a mandatory love story thrown in....but when you have some pretty nice wide screen air battles, PRICELESS
The movie showed fwd base living, some other good stuff
Rating? Better than most war movies as P-51s, B-17s, 262s etc are my favorite


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## Crimea_River (Jan 29, 2012)

I went in with low expectations so was not disappointed. I actually liked some of the CGI, despite the obvious errors already noted.


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## kettbo (Jan 29, 2012)

Ten minutes of chit chat and romance cut out and ten more minutes of any kind of action would have made a better movie for sure...
The guys wounded in the cockpits sure shows air battles were not sanitary affairs and what exactly getting a 'kill' means


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## javlin (Jan 30, 2012)

I heard it was good actors looking bad so the writers and directors must of sucked.Lucas has not really made anything worthy of note since ???????


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## paletteone (Jan 30, 2012)

Saw it a couple of days ago and my expectations were met. It's definitely a loosely based interpretation, not a historically sound drama. It was a bit one-dimensional in that the Germans appeared a little too inept in the aerial sequences, which was undoubtedly not the case. The stereotype German "Vader-like" grouchy menace and the flamboyant American "players" fit in well with a shallow script. I don't think that the little romantic sideline was needed, it was a bit like "Pearl Harbor" the movie in that regard. For me it could be a movie geared more to the casual WWII airplane enthusiast in the 13-18 years of age bracket. It's not going to get any critical acclaim but, saying that, I found it entertaining anyway purely from an "enthusiast's" point of view, admiring those beautiful machines and the computer graphics, although it still seemed that the sky was "jammed" with aircraft. Maybe it would have been better told had it been made as a biopic on Benjamin O. Davis. Jr.


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## GregP (Feb 1, 2012)

One thing to note: People didn't TALK the way they do in the movie commercials in WWII, and black aviators didn't think or talk the way they do in the previews. They were GLAD to BE there, not ready to talk trash like someone from the 1960's or later. In reality, they did a great job, but DID lose bombers they escorted. They were great pilots who did a credible job, but not what is purported by the popular myth that they didn't lose ANY bombers to enemy aircraft while being escorted by them. Right is right; give them the credit they deserve, which is a lot, but don't lie to make it seem better.

The people who spread the lie weren't IN the Red Tails, they are later people who want to get credit for their race that is not true. The REAL Red Tails did a VERY good job, but not perfect. In battle, NOBODY was perfect ... white, black, red, yellow, or neopolitan. But the Red Tails were VERY good and did a job commensurate with a good organization with good pilots and good results. They deserve the credit for a job well done. I applaud them for success in the face of discrimination and outright sabotage from people interested in their failure.

Other movies have exaggerated accomplishments by other organizations (think of the Dirty Dozen, not a real organization and not a real mission, but entertaining), so why not THIS one? When I see Red Tails, it might be very entertaining ... loks like it will be. If so, then Hollywood had done its job. It is released as movie, not as a historical documentary. It could very well be a great movie ... we'll see. I will NOT dislike it becasue the pilots are black; I would never do that. I am reacting to the previews that show people acting as we do today (especially in films), NOT as they did in WWII.

U-571 was a good movie, but not related to historic fact. The engima machine was captured by the British, not the U.S.A. ... but it was entertaining even if not historicall truthful. In fact, it was a total fabrication. I loved the Fiat G-59! 

Great fabrications include "Run Silent, Run Deep", "Fate is the Hunter", "Jet Pilot" ... and lot of OTHER movies including one of my favorites, "Chain Lightning" with Humphrey Bogart. It was about a fictitous jet called the JA-3 and JA-4, but is a decent 1950's movie even if historically inaccurate. So was Dr. Strangelove.

really looking forward to seeing "Red Tails" it soon to see for myself how entertaining it is.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 1, 2012)

I agree with you Greg.

I am not as enthusiastic about The Red Tails movie as you are, but I will certainly watch it and take it for what it is.


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## Njaco (Feb 1, 2012)

Don't forget "Inglorious Bastards"...Now if only that were real!!! 

The true strength of the Tuskegee Airmen is that they finally and forever laid to rest the myth that black /African-American people were not equal to Caucasian/white people. They did this against barriers that would have crumbled lesser men. THat is what I see their main contribution being and they should be hailed for that.


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## DVH (Feb 19, 2012)

Anyone heard if this will be released outside the USA? Lucas put up the cost of the movie plus distribution himself, 93 million dollars! So I doubt hell finance a world release nor DVD. I would rather like to see it.


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## hitoshi (Feb 20, 2012)

Indeed. I hope we get to see it down here in Oz


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## drgondog (Feb 21, 2012)

I have had more than a few calls from veteran WWII ETO fighter pilots who were livid at the implication that the 'white fighter pilots' were too interested in glory hunting after LW to the detriment of protecting the bombers.

They are extremely angry - as well as disappointed at the lack of technical correctness depicting fighter operations. The latter was no big deal and chalked up to Hollywood - but the former insult regarding the integrity of American fighter pilots leaving other American air crews to die in the air for glory was unforgivable.

They do NOT blame the 332nd FG vets - but do blame Hollywood PC in general and Lucas in particular for spreading a load of manure beyond even normal Hollywood standards.


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## pbfoot (Feb 21, 2012)

To turn it around the Black Guys got no recognition for 50years I guess its their time in the spotlight . Please understand it s not a point I agree with but it is understandable


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## drgondog (Feb 21, 2012)

pbfoot said:


> To turn it around the Black Guys got no recognition for 50years I guess its their time in the spotlight . Please understand it s not a point I agree with but it is understandable



Neil - it is not understandable for a writer and a director and a producer to'give' the spotlight in a manner that denigrates the memory and reputation of all the 'white' pilots that died defending bombers during WWII by implying that a.) they only cared about shooting down German aircraft, and, b.) did not care about the bomber crews they were escorting.

I think the 332nd deserves all the recognition it should rightfully have with respect to the insults and discrimination they suffered (as a race) just to get into combat and fight for their country rather than be relegated to stewards and quartermaster corps laborers. I get it. 

My issue is the outrage of building up the 332nd by tearing down the reputation of all the pilots that flew escort to 15th AF (and by connection - all fighter escort pilots) in order to raise the 332nd's legacy.

That is simply obscene and really demands a public apology from Lucas to the fighter pilots that he slandered in the movie..


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## pbfoot (Feb 21, 2012)

Please try and recall all the movies out of Hollywood that have totally missed the real story or in some way changed history to the point that some accept the movie version over reality . I would think that the crap movies by far outweigh the the ones based on reality


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## ccheese (Feb 21, 2012)

I've seen what Hollywood can do to a good war movie. Most of the submarine movies, especially "Torpedo Alley" were take off's of real events. "Torpedo Alley" was suppose to have been the story of the sinking of Japan's super aircraft carrier "Shinano" by the USS Archerfish. Archerfish just happened to be in the right place at the right time to take advantage of an "Ultra" informing the submarine fleet of her departure. The sub put four fish into her and she went down. In the movie the sub that sank her was sunk, but most of her crew rescued by another sub. Of course, all the names were changed.

I just wonder what Hollywood would do to the story of the sinking of the Japanese Hospital Ship Awa Maru ?

Charles


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## tyrodtom (Feb 21, 2012)

Just think how mad some of the survivors of the Thailand-Burma railway forced labor must have been when the " The Bridge over the River Kwai" come out.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 22, 2012)

drgondog said:


> Neil - it is not understandable for a writer and a director and a producer to'give' the spotlight in a manner that denigrates the memory and reputation of all the 'white' pilots that died defending bombers during WWII by implying that a.) they only cared about shooting down German aircraft, and, b.) did not care about the bomber crews they were escorting.
> 
> I think the 332nd deserves all the recognition it should rightfully have with respect to the insults and discrimination they suffered (as a race) just to get into combat and fight for their country rather than be relegated to stewards and quartermaster corps laborers. I get it.
> 
> ...



Careful Bill, you might be labeled a Racist by someone...

Just because you want the truth told.


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## drgondog (Feb 22, 2012)

Ahhh Chris - I'm too old to care whether other people deem me 'politically-incorrect' or even 'racist' for the above remarks.

You might not believe the rage in the 30+ emails I have gotten from surviving aces and 'plain ol fighter pilots' who died inside every time they saw a Fort blow up or a B-24 spinning out of control with no chutes. Lucas fits right up there with Josef Goebbels at the moment.

Personally I think General Benjamin O Davis, Jr would roll over in his grave if he saw that movie. He would be proud of the recognition but pissed at the Hollywood treatment.

I know personally some of the 'characters' like Momyer that tried to stick it to the 99th when Davis was squadron CO before being integrated into the 332nd. I know a LOT of USAF fighter pilots (white) that didn't think much of Momyer or his style. I haven't seen the movie - just the trailers but if they portrayed Monk Hunter or Momyer as racists in 1944 they could be right.


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## drgondog (Feb 22, 2012)

pbfoot said:


> Please try and recall all the movies out of Hollywood that have totally missed the real story or in some way changed history to the point that some accept the movie version over reality . I would think that the crap movies by far outweigh the the ones based on reality



Neil - I have zero problem with your comment above - 

Hollywood an politicians delight in elevating themselves by attacking and tearing down opponents' reputation rather than focus on the issues.

The issue was that the 99th almost got withdrawn from MTO based on a report by Momyer that 'they were incompetant and cowards' - and the 332nd was tarred with the same brush- and had difficulty in being acknowledged as 'capable' of flying escort based on perception of incompetency (per Momyer). The Congressional hearings determined that the 99th was no worse than average and that the report had no basis in fact. 

So, for Hollywood to portray the 332nd FG as 'uber' pilots (as contrast with 99th FS) kept down, then elevated by an all perceptive general and dedicated to protecting bombers because the 'non-black' escort pilots were glory hounds - is not only false but slanderous.


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## pbfoot (Feb 22, 2012)

Fighter pilots are a breed unto themselves and if anyone wants to know how a fighterpilot or test pilot thinks he needs go no further then Tom Wolfe in the Right Stuff( book not movie) and I think this might play a part in the opinions of the complainents . I'm of the mind that the guys from Tuskeegee got the run around but at the same time I would not hesitate to say that the majority of fighter pilots performed their duty of watching the heavies to the best of their ability. The black guys no doubt had to "try harder" to garner the same respect as the white guys in a very segregated US military .


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 22, 2012)

pbfoot said:


> *Fighter pilots are a breed unto themselves and if anyone wants to know how a fighterpilot or test pilot thinks he needs go no further then Tom Wolfe in the Right Stuff( book not movie) and I think this might play a part in the opinions of the complainents *. I'm of the mind that the guys from Tuskeegee got the run around but at the same time I would not hesitate to say that the majority of fighter pilots performed their duty of watching the heavies to the best of their ability. The black guys no doubt had to "try harder" to garner the same respect as the white guys in a very segregated US military .



Disagree to a point. My father in law was both - a fighter pilot and test pilot and he was quiet, reserved and somewhat shy. You almost had to drag information out of him with regards to his exploits. He's not the only test pilot I've met who carried himself the same way, there are many who have several college degrees and seem nerdy and intravert. In the air a whole different story.


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## tyrodtom (Feb 22, 2012)

I had a cousin who was a fighter pilot, and knew quite a few helicopter gunship pilots. The only thing they had in common was supreme confidence in themselves, but otherwise, some were quite, some were not.

If you got them all together in one area though, they were all LOUD.


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## pbfoot (Feb 22, 2012)

I took a part time job while in the Goose and was bartender at the officers mess , I've watched fighter pilots IIRC about 160 of them RAF USAF GAF BAF IAF USN Dutch USMC RCAF even Turks go at it it would be called an isane party even by my standards . Pianos and pool tables taken up to the roof,,playing crud ,dead ants you name it was a bash that was the equal to any I've been to including biker parties


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 22, 2012)

The bottom line is you can't have a movie or a book paint certain individuals with a broad brush.


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## renrich (Feb 23, 2012)

Not long ago I read a book about the survivors from the USS Houston and RAN Perth. Some of them wound up working on the RR in Siam and several commented on how inaccurate the "Bridge On the River Kwai" was as how it portrayed the Japanese and the behavior of the Allied POWs. No POWs cooperated anymore than they had to and the Japanese engineers were very competent. If Hollywood gets it right in a war movie it is surely an accident.


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## Kryten (Dec 1, 2012)

Well, watched "Red Tails" the other day, and must say, it was awfull!
I honestly found myself cringing at the "you guys are great" routine by the white pilots, came over as very patronising!

the strafing scene where they followed the 109 back to it's airbase left me doing a facepalm, four P40's managed to do more damage with just the .50's than a squadron of Marauders with 500lb'ers, oh and apparently german flak gunners went to the mr magoo school of marksmanship!

the head to head scene with the Me262 was toe curlingly bad, apparently Me262's were armed with rifle caliber machine guns and you can spend 30 second flying at each other at a closing speed of about 700mph!

the 109 super baddie apparently knew the red tails (without red tails at the time) were rookies and then got themselves shot to bits by them!

I could go on , but this was right up there with pearl harbour and top gun for utter tripe!

great subject matter, blown to bits by lousy scriptwriters and rediculous "cherry picking" of incidents from all of ww2 regardless of theater!


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## Crimea_River (Dec 1, 2012)

But.......you watched it. +1 for the sponsors.


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## mikewint (Dec 1, 2012)

Yea Crimea, I watched it too, but a rental on the TV, and mostly for the Me262 scenes


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## Crimea_River (Dec 1, 2012)

Gotta admit, so did I


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## Airframes (Dec 1, 2012)

I'm hoping to see it soon, on DVD at a friend's place. I'm more interested in the 'how they made it', and the aircraft and sets, as those few short clips I've seen to date make me cringe already!


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## drgondog (Dec 2, 2012)

EVERY fighter pilot vet of WWII that I have talked to - that saw the movie before 'word got out' - was simply enraged and deeply offended over the portrayal of 'non 332fg fighter pilots' as indifferent to bomber crew fates. 

The thought that white fighter pilots were glory hounds only interested in running up kills was simply the most incredible rascist insult that Lucas could throw out there.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 2, 2012)

Yeah, I found that annoying as well.


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## meatloaf109 (Dec 2, 2012)

This is the way of things now, revisionists everywhere, and if you speak up....


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## mikewint (Dec 2, 2012)

Terry, if you suspend your intellect/knowledge the flight scenes are well done and the Me262s are cool in flight


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## nuuumannn (Dec 18, 2012)

Watched it for the first time the other day, as I said in another thread, just one tired overused cliche after another. Utter rubbish and I didn't like the combat scenes at all. CGI just doesn't do it for me, I'm afraid. Watching films like Battle of Britain or Memphis Belle, Dark Blue World, Empire of the Sun and even Pearl Harbor are of interest because they actually _flew_ the combat scenes and used historic aircraft (although some trickery is used). Yes, I know that building fleets of Me 262s was not possible, but the footage of the 262s they did create was just awful; inaccurate markings, scowling grimacing Germans, yellow noses - shite!


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## DVH (Dec 23, 2012)

I enjoyed the flight scenes, even though the film as a viewing exprience was excruciating. The luftwaffe pilots had less character depth than a star wars villain, that,s going some.
I like cgi, as it provides a tool to show what other methods can,t. I didn,t mind the innacurate details, a yellow nosed 262 was extreem artistic licence, but i can live with that. 
Red tails wasn.t all cgi though, they used real footage of both p51 and p40,s, plus some life size mock up set pieces.
I have mixed feeling over this movie, it is at least a high budget release and was a pet project that took a lot of dedication from george and it detailed a worthy story, but it was so hammy that it may have soured the apetite for this genre. Not that there are many ww2 aviator movies out there recently anyway.
I.m hoping ang lee can do a decent job with the flying tigers. Given chinese attitudes to japan, however, i doubt it.


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## meatloaf109 (Dec 24, 2012)

I have to say that while I believe we are lucky that they are making historical aviation movies at all, it would be nice if they could include some actual history.


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## bobbysocks (Dec 24, 2012)

you are asking for a lot......


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 24, 2012)

...and how!

With Spielberg, there was just so much potential, and it was all wasted.


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## michaelmaltby (Dec 24, 2012)

Red Tails was embarrassingly bad ... but it was fun .... the _myth of the combattant_ has always been front and centre in our history. As long as movies motivate young people to consider the military as a career, I'm willing to accept a certain amount of 'dramatization' ... anything for a good plot line.

In life, one always quickly discovers that it isn't "like the movies" .... 

MM


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## AirWolf (Dec 25, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> I have to say that while I believe we are lucky that they are making historical aviation movies at all, it would be nice if they could include some actual history.


You are right it is a good movie to watch, but it isn't very realistic, or historical accurate


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## AirWolf (Dec 25, 2012)

meatloaf109 said:


> I have to say that while I believe we are lucky that they are making historical aviation movies at all, it would be nice if they could include some actual history.


You are right it is a good movie to watch, but it isn't very realistic, or historical accurate


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## Rogi (Jan 4, 2013)

meatloaf109 said:


> I have to say that while I believe we are lucky that they are making historical aviation movies at all, it would be nice if they could include some actual history.



Be thankful Lucas didn't insert some Yt-1300 Falcon into this history timeline and Luke with his lightsaber  if I say anything else about this movie it'll probobly go down in the "could be considered racist" column, so I won't go there  

I just don't think most of the people posting here are trying to be racist, I like to always reverse the roles that most directors tend to break all the time, if this movie was about an all white band of fighter pilots and the movie itself slandered other pilots about being too gun hoe and glory fame jockeys (of any color or origin) it would be considered "wrong" and we wouldn't be even spending half the time discussing it like we are now. 

Do we recal Saving Private Ryan and how outraged everyone was on the gore factor of the movie? (ok non WW2) and Gladiator, which would now be considered "safe" and appropriate movies, Hollywood needs to set in stone what it considers fine for children and what should be above PG-13 and how someone marketing a Historical movie should call that movie if it doesn't stick to the facts and isn't historical (ie it makes more than 5 Historical errors it shouldn't be called a Historical movie), I get called tons of names when I correct people on this movie (Red Tails), for some of the small facts that arn't correct.

If we go by the facts, the movie is bordering on the "comic book" shoot em up, everyone is a bad guy except the main characters. Kind of movie. If you watch it as is, and don't take that much heart into it as the see all flight movie of the year, its a pretty decent movie for a comic book style thing. Its right near the G.I. Joe movie. It could of used a bit less talking, romance and more flying.

I'm not trying to be racist here either just trying to state the facts and share my opinion which might not be shared by all. I think the "Tuskegee Airman" movie was by far better than this current rendition, they should have watches that movie and learned something. I enjoyed watching the older version much more than this new one.


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## stona (Jan 4, 2013)

I tried to watch it this afternoon but didn't make it far........'nuff said.

Steve


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## Bernhart (Jan 7, 2013)

actually enjoyed the previous one better, even thought they got the planes wrong


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## Maxrobot1 (Feb 12, 2013)

Did you know that this movie is being shown in classrooms in predominantly Black schools as history? Our educators cannot tell the difference and kids will believe what they see in that environment.
The real Group was featured in a war-time documentary narrated by Capt. Clark Gable. Despite the war-time publicity, today their history, like so much of our past, has been forgotten only to be revived when someone has an agenda.
Anyway, I'm surprised that no one mentioned the train attack. Attacking from astern or head-on? Tactics for train-busting were passed on pretty early and all gun camera photos show the planes knocking out the locomotive first causing it to stop. But I guess that wouldn't make a good flaming train wreck like the one depicted. Boy! That engine's boiler must have been filled with gasoline!


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## Rogi (Feb 13, 2013)

Maxrobot1 said:


> Did you know that this movie is being shown in classrooms in predominantly Black schools as history? Our educators cannot tell the difference and kids will believe what they see in that environment.
> The real Group was featured in a war-time documentary narrated by Capt. Clark Gable. Despite the war-time publicity, today their history, like so much of our past, has been forgotten only to be revived when someone has an agenda.
> Anyway, I'm surprised that no one mentioned the train attack. Attacking from astern or head-on? Tactics for train-busting were passed on pretty early and all gun camera photos show the planes knocking out the locomotive first causing it to stop. But I guess that wouldn't make a good flaming train wreck like the one depicted. Boy! That engine's boiler must have been filled with gasoline!



Aye but when your listing a couple errors in a movie, its easy to forget some of the Hollywood wam bam sections


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## Xjrtaz (Feb 26, 2013)

First film godd, this one BAAAAAAADDDDDDDD!
utter cr*p


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## Matt308 (Feb 26, 2013)

yep


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## Thorlifter (Mar 29, 2013)

Finally watched Red Tails. What a TOTAL CRAP movie. Acting sucked, CGI was average, aerial combat was ridiculous. And just because you shoot something with a machine gun, doesn't mean it's going to blow up. Every bomber they shot the wing spars failed and collapsed. I soooooo need to watch a good, realistic, historically accurate, WWII movie.

Now, where are my copies of Valkyrie and Inglorious Bastards?


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## Matt308 (Mar 29, 2013)

What has been seen, cannot be un-seen.


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## vikingBerserker (Mar 29, 2013)

A-Fricken-Men!


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## Njaco (Mar 29, 2013)

I won't look, I won't look, I won't............................


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 30, 2013)

You guys just can't appreciate the historical accuracy and the greatness of this movie because you are racist.


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## GrauGeist (Mar 30, 2013)

lol...yeah, I've been told I'm a racist because I didn't vote for a certain person recently, too...

Doesn't matter if this movie was about white men, black men or green people with plaid tattoos...it sucked so bad, the vacuum it left behind shifted the entire universe 2 inches to the left...

I guess I'm going to hell, right?


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## Njaco (Mar 31, 2013)

GrauGeist said:


> lol...yeah, I've been told I'm a racist because I didn't vote for a certain person recently, too...
> 
> Doesn't matter if this movie was about white men, black men or green people with plaid tattoos...it sucked so bad, the vacuum it left behind shifted the entire universe 2 inches to the left...
> 
> I guess I'm going to hell, right?



Quick! Put "Pearl Harbor" in the DVD player and the world will correct itself!!


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## GrauGeist (Mar 31, 2013)

Njaco said:


> Quick! Put "Pearl Harbor" in the DVD player and the world will correct itself!!


That's some mighty dangerous territory you're travelling there, Chris!

In order to bring everything back to normal, you should play something along the lines of "Flags Of Our Fathers" in the player...otherwise playing "Pearl Harbor" (especially after watching the crap they call "Redtails") would be like diving Zero by half...there's no telling how much the damage would be!!


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## Gnomey (Apr 1, 2013)

Njaco said:


> Quick! Put "Pearl Harbor" in the DVD player and the world will correct itself!!



However bad and inaccurate it is. I doubt it will correct the issue...


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 1, 2013)

Njaco said:


> Quick! Put "Pearl Harbor" in the DVD player and the world will correct itself!!


Potty mouth.


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## SPEKTRE76 (Apr 3, 2013)

Njaco said:


> Quick! Put "Pearl Harbor" in the DVD player and the world will correct itself!!



Didn't work, in fact I think I was just tricked into watching a 'chick flick'?

LOL, on a serious note.....


I really loved the Jagdgeschwader 3 Bf-109's and how accurately they were portrayed. The KG-54 emblem was on the aircraft just like it's supposed to be too and in the correct position! I also loved the fact that they had voice radios and used them! From what I read in "The First and the Last" by Genera lieutenant Adolf Galland most Luft pilots hated using them. They sure showed him! Dude and they had those non protected airfields that had more Bf-109's stationed at than the whole German air force had. I guess flak guns weren't invented until after the war. I had no idea there were ever yellow nosed Me-262's. That exited me to climax! The Tuskegee Airman also had bodies of steel. I had no idea this was true. That pilot at the end there took several 30mm explosive rounds to the chest (none to the face which was weird) and didn't turn into pink mist. His P-51D was made of unobtanium because all it did was smoke. I'm pretty sure that the white pilots at the prison camp were 'that' nice to Jr when he showed up. I'm also glad that they accurately showed that POW's call in favors from German Soldiers within the camp and don't get beaten. This was the most historically accurate masterpiece I have ever seen in my life! 






_sarcastically speaking_


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 3, 2013)

Off yer Med's, huh?


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## SPEKTRE76 (Apr 4, 2013)

Yeah my sarcasm pills are lost somewhere =o)


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## bobbysocks (Apr 8, 2013)

Njaco said:


> Quick! Put "Pearl Harbor" in the DVD player and the world will correct itself!!



no,....watch Dark Blue World. has some chic scenes but good flick overall


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