# The Fork-Tailed Devil..History of the P-38



## P38 Pilot (Jul 23, 2006)

The Lockheed P-38 Lightning became an important fighter of the Second World War, providing air support, bomber escort and interception capabilities. It earned its value through its long-range capabilities. It did not possess the agility of most of the single-engine piston fighters of the time but found its own place in the history of Classic Warbird aviation. 

The Lockheed P-38 Lightning was designed in 1937 as a high-altitude interceptor. The first one built for the U.S. Army Air Corps, the XP-38, made its public debut on Feb. 11, 1939 by flying from California to New York in seven hours.

The unconventional layout resulted from the high-demand specifications for a high-altitude, high-performance aircraft capable of heavy armament roles, good climbing rate and exceptional range. These requirements thusly eliminated the possibility that any single engine aircraft would be the solution. The design team (led by Clarence 'Kelly' Johnson of Lockheed) opted for a twin-engine design centered around a central cockpit 'tub', or nacelle, sided by two 'booms' on either side housing the engine components. The wide design also added stability in the extra surface features and provided the aircraft with two vertical rudders instead of a traditional single one. 

Because of its unorthodox design, the aircraft evolved for several years before becoming the fighter destined to see combat in all theaters of World War II. The P-38 Lightning introduced a new dimension to American fighters - a second engine. The multi-engine configuration reduced the Lightning loss-rate to anti-aircraft gunfire during ground attack missions.

Late in 1942, it went into large-scale operations during the North African campaign where the German Luftwaffe named it "Der Gabelschwanz Teufel"--"The Forked-Tail Devil." 

Equipped with droppable fuel tanks under its wings, the P-38 was used extensively as a long-range escort fighter. A very versatile aircraft, the Lightning was also used for dive bombing, level bombing, ground strafing and photo reconnaissance missions. 

As with any long-term production aircraft, the P-38 underwent many modifications. The fastest of the modifications was the P-38J with a top speed of 420 mph, and the version produced in the greatest quantity was the "L," of which 3,735 were built by Lockheed and 113 by Vultee. The P-38J intakes under the engines were enlarged to house core-type intercoolers. The curved windscreen was replaced by a flat panel, and the boom mounted radiators were enlarged. Some were fitted with bombardier type noses, and were used to lead formations of bomb-laden P-38s to their targets. The P-38M was a two-seat radar-equipped Night Fighter, a few of which had become operational before the war ended.

By the end of production in 1945, 9,923 P-38s had been built. Only 27 of the aircraft exist today. The P-38 Lightnings were used to great success in the European and Pacific Theaters of War, and were gradually resolved to the role of close support bomber craft and nightfighters upon the introduction of sleeker and faster aircraft such as the P-51 Mustangs.


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## syscom3 (Jul 23, 2006)

> Late in 1942, it went into large-scale operations during the North African campaign where the German Luftwaffe named it "Der Gabelschwanz Teufel"--"The Forked-Tail Devil."



Did the Germans ever call it that?


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 23, 2006)

syscom3 said:


> Did the Germans ever call it that?



Yes, but originally Rommel's troops gave it the nickname when P-38s targeted convoys and wreaked havoc of fuel depots and artillery postions


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## Jank (Jul 24, 2006)

"Der Gabelschwanz Teufel" aka "Fork Tailed Devil"

I thought that was a post war myth.


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## syscom3 (Jul 24, 2006)

Jank said:


> "Der Gabelschwanz Teufel" aka "Fork Tailed Devil"
> 
> I thought that was a post war myth.



In the ground attack role in Africa, , its possible it got that nickname.


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## Aggie08 (Jul 24, 2006)

I've read that in the Time-Life WW2 books. Sounds pretty darned cool if you ask me.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Jul 24, 2006)

Nice photo of the invasion marked P-38 flying over sand.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 24, 2006)

P38 Pilot said:


> Yes, but originally Rommel's troops gave it the nickname when P-38s targeted convoys and wreaked havoc of fuel depots and artillery postions



Its a myth only. In N. Africa someone may have called it that, but it was never called that by pilots or anyone else in the Luftwaffe. As jank put it is a misinformed post war myth.


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## lesofprimus (Jul 24, 2006)

This is a fact, its just an old myth that some PR guys decided to put into play...


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 24, 2006)

Well, from what I know, the P-38 became known to the Germans as "The Forked Tailed Devil" and put a hurt on the German Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe.


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## syscom3 (Jul 24, 2006)

I pretty sure the Luftwaffe didnt call it that, but what about the ground pounders?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 24, 2006)

lesofprimus said:


> This is a fact, its just an old myth that some PR guys decided to put into play...



Martin Cadin!!!!


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 24, 2006)

syscom3 said:


> I pretty sure the Luftwaffe didnt call it that, but what about the ground pounders?



Probably the Forked-Tailed Devil.

And who's Martin Cadin?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 24, 2006)

P38 Pilot said:


> Probably the Forked-Tailed Devil.
> 
> And who's Martin Cadin?



He's an aviation author who wrote the book "The Fork Tailed Devil." Although his books are entertaining for the novice, I personally find in many occasions he over-exaggerates and putting it simply, full of sh*t, after all he is a writer! I think he's the one who came up with he name The Fork Tailed Devil so he could sell his book but in reality it seems the Germans never really called the P-38 "Der Gabelschwanz Teufel."


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## Hunter368 (Jul 24, 2006)

Here is what I know about the German fliers and P-38. While I have read first hand accounts from German pilots meeting P-38's they never called it a "Fork tailed Devil". Most German pilots thought at most that the P-38 was a average plane at best. Most accounts that I have seen is that they thought it was unfit for flying in Europe. I have never seen any German pilot speak about the P-38 with fear, like the name "Fork Tailed Devil" sort of implies.

I think that the P-38 fairly or not was over shodowed in Europe by other planes in the allied arsenal like: Spitfire, P-47, P-51

P-47, P-51, Spitfire all demanded respect and received it from German pilots, admittedly b/c of different reasons. Sometimes b/c of shear numbers (P-51), toughness(P-47), flying ability (Spitfire). I like all of them ( including the P-38 )for different reasons and different roles.

IMHO


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## pbfoot (Jul 24, 2006)

P38 Pilot said:


> Probably the Forked-Tailed Devil.
> 
> And who's Martin Cadin?


Caidin wrote a lot of aviation stuff in the 50s/60s I believe he co authored Saburo Sakai's book . his books were always readable some of his work on the early years of flight in the 20's and 30's are good reads


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 24, 2006)

P38 Pilot said:


> Well, from what I know, the P-38 became known to the Germans as "The Forked Tailed Devil" and put a hurt on the German Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe.



Not trying to pick on you now (have to say this because you will problably flip out by the way I am wording it ). But you are wrong. As FBJ stated with the author that penned it, it was a myth and is not true.

Here is some more info on it:



> *Luftwaffe did not call the P-38 a fork-tailed devil.* They called it a preferred target, thanks to it's size and lack of maneuverability. P-38 was a much feared ground attack plane, and it's possible German ground forces called it that, but not Luftwaffe. The term first appears in a Stars And Stripes article about P-38Gs in North Africa, so it's possible the term has been coined for propaganda purposes by a journalist working for the magazine, or it has been heard from a German POW.
> Talk-38 Lightning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



From the above article the only thing that I dont agree with is the comment about the P-38 having lack of maneuverability. She may not have been the most maneuverable but she was certainly not lacking.


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## Gnomey (Jul 24, 2006)

I always thought it was a myth penned later as both Adler and FBJ have pointed out. Other than that it is a good history P-38


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 24, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> Caidin wrote a lot of aviation stuff in the 50s/60s I believe he co authored Saburo Sakai's book . his books were always readable some of his work on the early years of flight in the 20's and 30's are good reads


His books were entertaining but filled with a lot of exaggerations and inaccuracies. He does tell an interesting story claiming that the 5th AF had 150 P-38Ls in Korea, 1949. The 5th received orders to transfer to P-51Ds. There was talk about transferring the P-38s to the South Koreans but the US State Dept. nixed the idea, so they were chopped up with axes and buried. Cadin claims he witnessed this along with several hundred other men. If true things at the opening months of the Korean War might of been a little different, especially when only communist recip aircraft were on scene.


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## Aggie08 (Jul 25, 2006)

Preferred target? I find that hard to imagine...

I'd bet the Japanese would have a much different nickname for this beauty!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 25, 2006)

I do not know if the Germans actually looked at the P-38 that way but compared to what they facing in thousands of P-47s and P-51s they probably did prefer to see the few P-38s that flew in the ETO.


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## evangilder (Jul 25, 2006)

The fork tailed devil nickname is a myth. If that nickname first appeared in Stars and Stripes, well then, you have your answer...

-38, it is ok to post someone else's text, but you really should give the proper credit for both the text and pictures. Your posted text came from Lockheed P-38 Lightning


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## Jabberwocky (Jul 25, 2006)

In the introduction to the the Osprey "P-38 Lightning Aces of the MTO ETO" the first paragraph reads:

"Sometime during the course of the war in Europe, German aircrew prisioners of war were surveyed as to the fighter types they would most and least prefer to meet in combat. Not suprisingly, the majority chose the Spitfire as the type they would least like to encounter, whilst the P-38 Lightning was selected as the fighter they would prefer to engage"

So maybe it really was the preferred target


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## Jank (Jul 25, 2006)

Gnomey said, *"I always thought it was a myth penned later as both Adler and FBJ have pointed out. Other than that it is a good history P-38"*

I pointed it out first. Where's the credit? Where's the love?


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 25, 2006)

Thanks Gnomey. I just wanted to give a history of the P-38 thats all...


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 25, 2006)

Besides, some people here have reticuled me about not knowing my facts. I think the P-38 is a great fighter especially its service in the Pacific and if some of you need refreshing, Richard Bong and Tommy Mcguire flew the P-38 and became America's leading aces in WWII.


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## syscom3 (Jul 25, 2006)

P38 Pilot said:


> .....reticuled.....



the word is "ridiculed"

And were not making fun of you on this thread. The story (myth) behind "fork tailed devil" needs to be clarified.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 25, 2006)

P-38 know one redicules your for knowledge that you know, you just dont like being corrected. 

Besides as Even put it, you need to source stuff when you take info directly from other peoples works. Otherwise it is called plagerism which guess what can get you sued and even jail time in the United States. You do it at school and you can be suspended or expelled. In College you will be thrown out of school and barred. Most Universities will not even look at you after that. And since it is a federal offense, there is a chance the military will not even look at you anymore, atleast to be an officer.

It would be something like this:



> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> http://www.ThisIsNotMyInfoButSomeoneElses.com


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## wmaxt (Jul 25, 2006)

The name "Forked Tailed Devil" was first reported by Earny Pile in Africa. It's source was a captured German pilot. It could just be that that pilot was cursing the aircraft that shot him down and it was taken further from there by others. However this was also at the same time Stienhoff complaned to Galland that the P-38 was "Clearly superior in speed and maneuverability to his aircraft. Maybe it was true but only at that time and place, who really knows?

The early P-38s had a complex system that took to much time to go from long range cruise to combat power - they were in trouble if caught in a bounce. Inexperienced pilots probably couldn't maneuver very well. The P-38 had a 3-4:1 kill ratio, the P-51s is about 2:1, so calling the P-38 easy pickings and a preferred target is certainly missguided. Another thig is that if it were the prefered target - why do both bomber crews and P-38 pilots stress that often the bombers that were covered by P-38s were bypassed by German fighters?

As I posted elsewhere, The P-38 flew just under 130,000 sorties in Europe. Roughly 30,000 of those were 9th AF. The 8th AF flew the rest, about 100,000 sorties and lost 451 P-38s, original source AAF Statistical Digest internet location of the 451 is 8th Air Force Combat Losses in World War II ETO Against the AXIS Powers . To put a counter point to it the P-51 lost (8th AF only) 2,201 aircraft in Europe. Including the sorties flown by the 9th AF, flew 214,000 sorties. Using the extended number of sorties but not counting the 9th AFs losses (~350) for the P-51 and the smaller number for the P-38 the P-51 still failed to return to base more than twice as often as the P-38. One final point, these are all the combat related losses including training accidents AND the early P-38s teething problems. 

wmaxt


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 25, 2006)

And if I recall Pile was a reporter.

As stated it was just a myth.


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 25, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> P-38 know one redicules your for knowledge that you know, you just dont like being corrected.
> 
> Besides as Even put it, you need to source stuff when you take info directly from other peoples works. Otherwise it is called plagerism which guess what can get you sued and even jail time in the United States. You do it at school and you can be suspended or expelled. In College you will be thrown out of school and barred. Most Universities will not even look at you after that. And since it is a federal offense, there is a chance the military will not even look at you anymore, atleast to be an officer.
> 
> It would be something like this:



I understand plagerism. I know not to do it, and I even did a wriiten(typed) report on WWII Tanks and included all of the copyright information I recieved from the books I got them from. Evan is right I should have included it.

You may not think I should be this but I want to become an Officer in the National Guard when im older. So I understand the huge price in Plagerism now.


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## Wildcat (Jul 25, 2006)

evangilder said:


> . Your posted text came from Lockheed P-38 Lightning



Just had a look at that site, funniest part-
"May 4-8 The Battle of the Coral Sea ensues, it is the first of six major battles between opposing aircraft carriers. The Japanese claim victory based on 'points' but the battle is nonetheless an operational and strategic defeat for them. The goal was to capture Port Moseby on New Zealand, offering up an Japanese airbase within striking distance of Australia."


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## wmaxt (Jul 26, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> And if I recall Pile was a reporter.
> 
> As stated it was just a myth.



Pile was a top notch correspondant, very respected and would not make something like that up. I don't know if its a myth or not, it really could be either. If it was true it was probably a local thing though.

wmaxt


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 26, 2006)

wmaxt said:


> Pile was a top notch correspondant, very respected and would not make something like that up. I don't know if its a myth or not, it really could be either. If it was true it was probably a local thing though.
> 
> wmaxt



Thats what I believe happened. 

In my opinion, from evidence, I believe the P-38 was called "The Forked-Tailed Devil" from German ground troops who were attacked by the P-38s doing bombing runs over ammo depots, fuel depots, convoys, etc.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 26, 2006)

P38 Pilot said:


> I understand plagerism. I know not to do it, and I even did a wriiten(typed) report on WWII Tanks and included all of the copyright information I recieved from the books I got them from. Evan is right I should have included it.
> 
> You may not think I should be this but I want to become an Officer in the National Guard when im older. So I understand the huge price in Plagerism now.



I never said I dont want you to join the military. I just think you dont understand as much as you think you do.

Besides P38 this thread needs to get back on topic....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 26, 2006)

wmaxt said:


> Pile was a top notch correspondant, very respected and would not make something like that up. I don't know if its a myth or not, it really could be either. If it was true it was probably a local thing though.
> 
> wmaxt



Agreed. As I said before it was probably German ground troops if anything that called them that but the Luftwaffe never did.


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 27, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I never said I dont want you to join the military. I just think you dont understand as much as you think you do.
> 
> Besides P38 this thread needs to get back on topic....



Right. I guess we can all agree that the P-38 was called The Forked Tailed Devil from the ground troops but not the Luftwaffe.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 27, 2006)

I can agree that if anyone did, it was the ground troops. It very well could have been just one German POW who had a bad day with a P-38 and called it that himself.


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## evangilder (Jul 27, 2006)

The fact is that the only source of that moniker comes from a reporter, who may have heard a POW say it. There is no _written _ documentation in German that mentions that nickname.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 28, 2006)

Exactly


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 28, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I can agree that if anyone did, it was the ground troops.


Having an aircraft flying at low altitude firing 4 .50 cal and a Hispano 20mm at the same time dropping two 500 lb bombs would definitely make me scream the Devil! So we can all make the final judgment that the Wehrmacht called the P-38 "The Forked Tailed Devil" but not the Luftwaffe.


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## Gnomey (Jul 28, 2006)

Noone knows for sure as it was reported by an Allied War Reporter. It is likely to have been a Wehrmacht soldier who was a prisoner or it could of been made up by the reporter, we may never know...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 29, 2006)

P38 Pilot said:


> So we can all make the final judgment that the Wehrmacht called the P-38 "The Forked Tailed Devil" but not the Luftwaffe.



No I will not make that judgement. You can, but I will not. Because frankly I think it was one person that may have said it. Not the whole Wehrmacht. One POW who had a bad day is not the whole Wehrmacht. There are also no German accounts of any "Group" calling it that.


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## syscom3 (Jul 29, 2006)

Well what ever the source, it sure made for a fine legend, didnt it.

Did the allied airmen ever call the -190 the "Butcher Bird"?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 29, 2006)

syscom3 said:


> Well what ever the source, it sure made for a fine legend, didnt it.



Yes it is an interesting story.



syscom3 said:


> Did the allied airmen ever call the -190 the "Butcher Bird"?



Nope they never did. It got that name from the Germans not the allies.

The actual name given by the Germans for the Fw-190 was the "Wuerger" which is a bird of prey or litterally "Butcher Bird".

So sorry syscom, no comparison there...


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## syscom3 (Jul 29, 2006)

I was hoping for a "Fork Tailed Devil vs Butcher Bird" story


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 29, 2006)

Wuerger actually litterally means Shrike and from there it became butcher bird.


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## P38 Pilot (Jul 29, 2006)

Cool. By the way, awesome new sig Gnomey!


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## Gnomey (Jul 30, 2006)

Thanks...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 31, 2006)

i still prefer the spit one 

there are many names around for many different thing, many of which were used by small groups of people but after the war were blown out of all proportion and some that went the other way it depends on what the people that lead us want us to think, and as with the butcher bird issue sometimes it's just down to translation for example i believe the British actually called the Tiger II the Royal Tiger, but the name King Tiger seems to be the one that stuck........


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## plan_D (Jul 31, 2006)

King Tiger is it's proper title, that's probably why it stuck. But it has many names.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 31, 2006)

Yes Lanc sometimes it comes down to translation. I can actually see that with the Butcher Bird because Wuerger means Shrike, Bird of Prey aka Butcher Bird.


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## Ome_Joop (Nov 3, 2007)

plan_D said:


> King Tiger is it's proper title, that's probably why it stuck. But it has many names.




No it's not!
It's a bad translation of the German name Königstiger (Panthera tigris tigris) wich actually translates to Bengal Tiger in English!


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## plan_D (Nov 3, 2007)

Did the British call the Tiger II, the King Tiger? Yes, yes they did...so that's it's title in English.


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## Cdat88 (Nov 3, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Besides P38 this thread needs to get back on topic....



Thats right! The P-38 was the best da*n can opener ever made, and anyone who disagrees can go....

what plane?

Oh...nevermind...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 4, 2007)

Ome_Joop said:


> No it's not!
> It's a bad translation of the German name Königstiger (Panthera tigris tigris) wich actually translates to Bengal Tiger in English!



No actually Königstiger actually does translate to King Tiger or Royal Tiger.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 4, 2007)

Cdat88 said:


> Thats right! The P-38 was the best da*n can opener ever made, and anyone who disagrees can go....
> 
> what plane?
> 
> Oh...nevermind...





I still have a P38 Can Opener! I love the damn thing. I never could carry mine on my dog tags though. I was allways afraid if I fell or had to dive it would puntcure me!


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## evangilder (Nov 4, 2007)

I still carry and use mine after 20 years! It's a great piece of equipment.


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## HoHun (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi Adler,

>No actually Königstiger actually does translate to King Tiger or Royal Tiger.

Linguistically correct, however: biologically, "Königstiger" describes Panthera tigris tigris, which is called "Bengal Tiger" or (and here the languanges converge  "Royal Bengal Tiger" in English.

KÃ¶nigstiger - Wikipedia

Bengal Tiger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## Cdat88 (Nov 4, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I still have a P38 Can Opener! I love the damn thing. I never could carry mine on my dog tags though. I was allways afraid if I fell or had to dive it would puntcure me!



I thought I was the only one that worried about that. I felt like in the movie Patton, worrying about getting shot in the nose.

I also still have mine. You can order them by the case on Ebay.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 4, 2007)

HoHun said:


> Hi Adler,
> 
> >No actually Königstiger actually does translate to King Tiger or Royal Tiger.
> 
> ...



That is fine but it is not a bad translation. Königs literally translates to King or Royal. Therefore the literal translation is King Tiger.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 4, 2007)

Cdat88 said:


> I thought I was the only one that worried about that. I felt like in the movie Patton, worrying about getting shot in the nose.
> 
> I also still have mine. You can order them by the case on Ebay.



I allways wore mine on my key chain.


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## Cdat88 (Nov 4, 2007)

Same here.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 4, 2007)

Got rid of mine a long time ago - it kept putting holes in my pants!


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## ccheese (Nov 4, 2007)

P38 Pilot said:


> And who's Martin Cadin?



He also wrote the book "Iron Annie" about his personal JU-52, which he
and his wife ,Babe or Baby, or something like that, use to fly around the
country. I met him years ago in Boston. He looks just like a "Biker". A
big bald headed guy with a very big moustache. Joe is correct, he is full of 
BS.

Charles


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## HoHun (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi Adler,

>That is fine but it is not a bad translation. 

Oh, I never meant to suggest that!

>Königs literally translates to King or Royal. Therefore the literal translation is King Tiger.

"Royal" would be the adjective "königlich", but "Königs..." could also be "king's" or "kings'". I'd say that "Königstiger" in German really implies that it is the "tiger of the king(s)", not a "tiger king". 

I'm not sure how this kind of consideration applies to the English term "king tiger" ... tiger of the kings or king of the tigers? (Or tiger and king both, coincidentally?)

Strange how complicated this turns out now that we have a closer look at it ...

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## plan_D (Nov 4, 2007)

I hope you're aware that you're speaking to a man who is half German, half American and can speak both German and English fluently.


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## HoHun (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi Charles,

>A big bald headed guy with a very big moustache. Joe is correct, he is full of BS.

I'm afraid Caidin passed away some ten years ago. It seems he was well liked in the Warbirds scene for his story-telling talents ... one "obit" I read mentioned that during his lifetime, it was common wisdom that "Marty always tells it like it is, even if it ain't."

Great you had the good luck to meet him in person - I bought his Me 109 book very early on in the "aviation enthusiast" career, reading it over and over through the years, and while it is dated now, it compares favourably to many other contemporary books in the quality of research. Of course, Caidin also praised the Me 108 in his 109 book - he was a great fan of the former type 

>his personal JU-52, which he and his wife ,Babe or Baby, or something like that, use to fly around the country. 

He sold this Ju 52 a long time ago, and it was bought and restored to airliner condition by the Lufthansa who operates it for nostalgia flights (carrying very well-paying passengers  It's a regular guest on airhows in Germany and based in Hamburg-Fuhlsbüttel.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 4, 2007)

Cadin was entertaining but a bullsh!ter....


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## HoHun (Nov 4, 2007)

Hi Plan D,

>I hope you're aware that you're speaking to a man who is half German, half American and can speak both German and English fluently.

Hm, what are you trying to tell me? My English certainly isn't as fluent as my German, and so I occassionally misunderstand things that might be obvious to a native speaker ...

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 4, 2007)

HoHun said:


> Hi Adler,
> 
> >That is fine but it is not a bad translation.
> 
> ...



Agreed. 

Unfortunatly that is how complicated the German language is.


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## Bobdalf01 (Jul 24, 2014)

Whether or not the P-38 was ever CALLED "the fork-tailed devil" BY... the Germans is totally irrelevant! What matters is... In the end, it WAS... a "fork-tailed devil" to them. To me, "fork-tailed devil" is a totally RELEVANT term! Whether or not it was EVER even CALLED that, it WAS THAT!


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## Balljoint (Jul 25, 2014)

Some years ago I had lunch with a guy who flew P-38s out of England –often at night- near London. He said the happiest day of his life was when he got his P-51. To be fair, if it had been a year or two later in the Pacific, perhaps he would have had a different opinion.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 26, 2014)

Bobdalf01 said:


> Whether or not the P-38 was ever CALLED "the fork-tailed devil" BY... the Germans is totally irrelevant! What matters is... In the end, it WAS... a "fork-tailed devil" to them. To me, "fork-tailed devil" is a totally RELEVANT term! Whether or not it was EVER even CALLED that, it WAS THAT!



Interesting you should say that, if I recall most German pilots stated the P-38 was the one they were least worried about.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 27, 2014)

Bobdalf01 said:


> Whether or not the P-38 was ever CALLED "the fork-tailed devil" BY... the Germans is totally irrelevant! What matters is... In the end, it WAS... a "fork-tailed devil" to them. To me, "fork-tailed devil" is a totally RELEVANT term! Whether or not it was EVER even CALLED that, it WAS THAT!


Ill be blunt, read this...

Lockheed P-38 Lightning with the 8th and 9th Air Forces (ETO)

Then shut up!


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## Lucky13 (Jul 27, 2014)

Always suspected it to be a myth, either way, it was a fighter that pulled its weight, when it was most needed, maybe not as good as the P-47 or P-51, but, it was rather successful in the Pacific.....

It was there, at the right time and at right place....

One thing that I don't think that you can't argue, it was _then_ and it is _now_ a d*mn beautiful plane....







Btw, wasn't it the P-38 that first it 400 mph?


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## GrauGeist (Jul 27, 2014)

My Great Uncle Jimmy, who flew them in the PTO, called them a "fork-tailed devil". A friend of the family, who was a Luftwaffe pilot (1939 - 1945), called them "lightnings" and a "tolerable nuisance"...

Big difference.

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## Denniss (Jul 27, 2014)

Better ask what Heer units thought of them if they were on the receiving end of the cannon and four MGs.


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## Clayton Magnet (Jul 30, 2014)

> Btw, wasn't it the P-38 that first it 400 mph?



I believe that was the Supermarine S.6B, in 1931.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 31, 2014)

Clayton Magnet said:


> I believe that was the Supermarine S.6B, in 1931.



First combat aircraft to reach 400 mph


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## Clayton Magnet (Jul 31, 2014)

> First combat aircraft to reach 400 mph



Fair enough. It was close though, with an unmodified He100 prototype flown by Ernst Udet just scrapping the edge of 400 mph in 1938. Interestingly, the P-38 was almost named the "Atalanta", before the British coined it "Lightning", and the name stuck .And the rest is history I suppose.


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## Completeaerogeek (Jan 17, 2020)

syscom3 said:


> Did the Germans ever call it that?


Nope. This is a myth.

Basic physics would tell you that the P-38 was an interceptor not a fighter. It had good range and speed but mass and wingspan worked against it. To give you an idea, the Mosquito (which weighed the same) was equal in speed, and superior in firepower and comparable in manoevrability. Rate of role of P-38 was positively sedate. There are numerous stories of P-38 pilots challenging Spitfire guys in Britain only to be extremely embarrassed as the Spitfire flew rings around them. Adolf Galland describes the P-38 at a poor fighter and relatively easy to shoot down. Any time you hear stories like 'Whispering death' for the Beaufighter or Forked Tailed Devil for the P-38 you can be pretty confident it was created by military propaganda people otherwise how is it that far superior fighters like the P-51, and aircraft the wehrmacht troops truly hated like the P-47 or Typhoon/Tempest never had these scary nicknames? beware of stories like these that make you feel good. They are usually usually syspect.


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