# Russian Spies...



## Night Fighter Nut (Jun 30, 2010)

Here is something to think about. Apparently there are 11 people who have been detained and charged with spying for Russia. All I have is what is provided by the liberal media but it is fodder for the water cooler.

Any thoughts?

FBI breaks up alleged Russian spy ring in deep cover | World news | The Guardian


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## syscom3 (Jun 30, 2010)

The cold war is over. Just send them home packing and dont make a big deal out of it.


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## timshatz (Jun 30, 2010)

syscom3 said:


> The cold war is over. Just send them home packing and dont make a big deal out of it.



If they got bagged by the FBI, they're going to jail. And that's who got them. 

Not about the Cold War anymore, it's about getting inside the mechinations of the machine which is the US Govt and affecting it. Probably similar to the reasons for spying during the cold war. 

Wonder why it popped though. Usually, the other side finds out we know about them and tries to close down the network. That's what probably happened here. Otherwise, the US would probably try to set up a double cross system.


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## Night Fighter Nut (Jun 30, 2010)

The timing of this seems to coincide with Russia trying to enter the WTO (World Trade Organization). It could be just some political propagand to help force Russia to change some of its business laws or something completely different. More than likely it doesn't mean much in the larger scope of things other than political embarassement.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 30, 2010)

I don't know why this is so surprising. Just because the Cold War is over, does not mean they are not spying on us and we are not spying on them. Everyone spies on everyone.


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## Night Fighter Nut (Jun 30, 2010)

Surprising, probably not. Just there has not been any good spy stories lately and the timing of this seemed interesting. The last spy story I heard was about an Israeli spy some time ago. Then there was that Chinese guy in California I think. This all reminds me of that Mad cartoon, "Spy vs. Spy."


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## timshatz (Jun 30, 2010)

Night Fighter Nut said:


> "Spy vs. Spy."



I love those guys! They were great!


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## RabidAlien (Jun 30, 2010)

Night Fighter Nut said:


> This all reminds me of that Mad cartoon, "Spy vs. Spy."




They always had the coolest toys and traps!

As for the spy ring, I think I'm gonna have to go with Adler on this one. Everybody spies on everybody else. Its politically embarrassing to get caught doing it, the agency that does the catching gets international "street cred", and the caught person is usually declared person non-grata, but since the Cold War ended, I don't think there's any threats of gulags or disappearing into an unmarked grave in the middle of Montana somewhere. However...to catch 11 at once? Dude...that's seriously bad for Russia!

'Course, if I were an agent for America living in Russia right now, I'd duck down into some deep dark hole and pretend I didn't exist. You know the Russians are gonna be pissed, and looking for spies to drag out into the limelight!


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## Maestro (Jul 1, 2010)

Greetings ladies and gentlemen.

I didn't quite know where to post this exactly, but I jut fell on this while on Yahoo.com.

Yahoo!

It looks like "Anna Chapman" (somehow, that name rings me a bell ???) was in fact a Russian spy.

KGB can now bear the name of FSB, it is still the same monster with a different name.


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## imalko (Jul 1, 2010)

Maestro said:


> KGB can now bear the name of FSB, it is still the same monster with a different name.




Same could be said for CIA, but without the name change. Don't tell me there isn't any western agents in Russia, China or elsewhere. As long there's conflicting interests spy game will never cease.


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## Night Fighter Nut (Jul 1, 2010)

Of course you know what will be interesting now. I'm getting ready for a trip to Russia in three weeks to visit relatives. This will be my 8th trip and everytime I go it's an adventure. I think the second time I went there were two suits waiting for me asking if I had a place to stay and if I needed a ride. Alarms in my head were going... KGB! I told them I already had a place to stay and a ride but thanks just the same. Tell you guys what... When I return in August I'll tell you what the average Russian is thinking.


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## timshatz (Jul 1, 2010)

Night Fighter Nut said:


> Of course you know what will be interesting now. I'm getting ready for a trip to Russia in three weeks to visit relatives. This will be my 8th trip and everytime I go it's an adventure. I think the second time I went there were two suits waiting for me asking if I had a place to stay and if I needed a ride. Alarms in my head were going... KGB! I told them I already had a place to stay and a ride but thanks just the same. Tell you guys what... When I return in August I'll tell you what the average Russian is thinking.



Cool enjoy yourself. I hear Russian Vodka is better tasting than Western. More of a sippin' vodka. 

If you get picked up by the Feds and a spy, remember the Sgt Shultz defense, "I know nooothing, I see nooothing".


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## Maestro (Jul 2, 2010)

imalko said:


> Same could be said for CIA, but without the name change. Don't tell me there isn't any western agents in Russia, China or elsewhere. As long there's conflicting interests spy game will never cease.



I never said the opposite. What I was trying to say was that even though Russia tried to look "friendlier" by oppening its borders and "disbanding" the KGB, in fact the big Russian bear is still alive.

But of course spy games will always go on. Even though there seems to be an agreement to not spy on friendly countries, I'm pretty sure the CIA has agents in the UK, the M.I.6 has agents in the US and I could even bet that the CIA is spying on the NSA and vice-versa... Even though they are both working for the US.

But I think we're going "Tom Clancy" here... 

Wait... I think there is two guys in black suits knocking at my door...


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## RabidAlien (Jul 2, 2010)

They just want to sell you Amway, don't worry.


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## timshatz (Jul 2, 2010)

I've seen a few youtube vids and whatnot about Anna Chapman and it strikes me that we weren't playing against the First Team here. 

Seems like the gang that couldn't shoot straight.


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## Night Fighter Nut (Jul 2, 2010)

Wait... I think there is two guys in black suits knocking at my door... [/QUOTE]

Nooooo.... It's the JW's.... 

My brother and a couple of his friends chased a few off at one time by dressing up in black robes each carrying a burning candle. When they came to the door and knocked, they opened up the door dressed in these robes and said, "Oh look, the sacrifice is here!" Those two took off running.


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## Maestro (Jul 2, 2010)




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## HOUSTON (Jul 4, 2010)

I see that they have decided to send the spies kids back to Russia.....

Intrigue and Spies makes for a good novel title...


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## Zniperguy114 (Jul 6, 2010)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I don't know why this is so surprising. Just because the Cold War is over, does not mean they are not spying on us and we are not spying on them. Everyone spies on everyone.



Agreed. I still don't trust Russia anymore than JFK would have in his time. And they have all reason to hold a grudge on us too, Because people who were high in the Communist Gov't had it made. We ruined all that. But at least the people are kinda happy


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## Night Fighter Nut (Jul 11, 2010)

It's hard to believe. Obama pretty much told the world that it's ok to spy on the U.S. The worst we will do to you, if you get caught, is send you home. should of dropped them off in Prison for awhile before setting them loose again.


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## Maestro (Jul 11, 2010)

I think it was more like a trade... I heard on the news they got 4 US prisonners for those 10 spies.

Agreed, 4 against 10 is no big deal...


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## Night Fighter Nut (Jul 11, 2010)

By the way, in a conversation with my father in law in Russia, he tells me that there are people there who are embarrassed for Russia.


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## RabidAlien (Jul 11, 2010)

Hopefully we got at least one hot spy in return...seriously, Anna Chapman is cute!


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## Maestro (Jul 11, 2010)

Agreed.


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## timshatz (Jul 11, 2010)

Ya' know, the older pictures of her from her early 20s are of a girl that is cute. But the most recent stuff is showing somebody who's drifting towards Babuska. Little chubby, little round, nose getting a tad big. From cute as a button to fat as a cow in 10 20 years. It's commin' Anna girl, it's commin'!


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## Zniperguy114 (Jul 11, 2010)

Night Fighter Nut said:


> It's hard to believe. Obama pretty much told the world that it's ok to spy on the U.S. The worst we will do to you, if you get caught, is send you home. should of dropped them off in Prison for awhile before setting them loose again.



Too bad he's closing Guantanamo bay.


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## vikingBerserker (Jul 11, 2010)

Redheads so work for me!


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## Maestro (Jul 11, 2010)

vikingBerserker said:


> Redheads so work for me!



Blondes, brunettes or redheads... They all work for me as long as they are cute.


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## Night Fighter Nut (Jul 12, 2010)

vikingBerserker said:


> Redheads so work for me!



You know I noticed that quite a few russian women dye their hair red when I last visited. It seems to be one of the favorite colors. Didn't we use to have a saying, better dead than red?


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## vikingBerserker (Jul 12, 2010)

Yes we did, but I think it's flipped now


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 12, 2010)

Night Fighter Nut said:


> It's hard to believe. Obama pretty much told the world that it's ok to spy on the U.S. The worst we will do to you, if you get caught, is send you home. should of dropped them off in Prison for awhile before setting them loose again.



I don' think you can look at it that way. 

1. It was a prisoner swap, we received some our ours back in return. This is nothing new. It happened all throughout the cold war as well. Spy prisoner swaps happened very frequently during the Cold War and were usually conducted at border crossings or bridges in East/West Berlin.

2. Any other administration (including a Republic one) would have done the same thing.


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## B-17engineer (Jul 12, 2010)

Who had the idea to swap? 

If it was our idea what would the Russians have done with ours if we never suggested a swap? Just curious


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## RabidAlien (Jul 12, 2010)

I agree with Adler here, spy-swaps are nothing new. Its cheaper to give them back than to toss them in a gulag after beating them dry. Its happened with both parties, regardless of political leanings. 

The way I see it (may or may not resemble reality in any way, shape or form), there are always spies in every country, and for the most part, those countries will have a general idea of who may/may not be spies. Low-level spies/couriers will probably be tagged within a very short period of time, and either left in place to lead the watchers to bigger fish, turned and started feeding false information, defect, or eventually be scooped up and swapped for another low-level spy/courier. I don't think there's that much of a lag between different countries finding/scooping spies, if needed. Nowadays, spies in civilized countries (yeah, I laughed too) probably spend time in jail somewhere, courtesy of the CIA. Torture=Playstation 1, on an old-fashioned CRT TV. Without a remote.


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## Njaco (Jul 12, 2010)

and some of these guys were here for 30 years or so - in this country - and now in 2 weeks time have been dropped in a whole new world.


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## Night Fighter Nut (Jul 13, 2010)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I don' think you can look at it that way.
> 
> 1. It was a prisoner swap, we received some our ours back in return. This is nothing new. It happened all throughout the cold war as well. Spy prisoner swaps happened very frequently during the Cold War and were usually conducted at border crossings or bridges in East/West Berlin.
> 
> 2. Any other administration (including a Republic one) would have done the same thing.



Perhaps, but where is the deterent. Didn't prisoner swaps happen after the spies were questioned to see what they do or don't know? I don't think those prison swaps happened within a half months time, more like after at least a years time. I may be wrong but I feel there should be something that more discourages rather than incourages them.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 13, 2010)

Night Fighter Nut said:


> Perhaps, but where is the deterent. Didn't prisoner swaps happen after the spies were questioned to see what they do or don't know? I don't think those prison swaps happened within a half months time, more like after at least a years time. I may be wrong but I feel there should be something that more discourages rather than incourages them.



That is not how it works. It is more important to get your guys out and find out what they know, and protect them. Also neither country (Russia or the US) would allow anyone with information that is a serious threat to national security get out. They know what these guys know, and they do the swap. If they knew something serious you bet they would still be held and questioned. 

Another reason why they are not treated so harshly is because you have to think about your spies that are out in other countries. How would you want them treated if they are caught. It is not black and white like that. We the US are not innocent, we spy on everyone as well. So if we have a great "deterrent" against foreign spies, how do you think another country will treat our spies. 

The spy business is not as glamorous as Hollywood makes it out to be. Most spies as a matter of fact are national citizens that are recruited. 

Every country spies on one another, even our allies. It is a normal thing.


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## Night Fighter Nut (Jul 13, 2010)

That makes sense. I never implied spying to be glamorous, rather the opposite. Its a dangerous business. Just because one country is nice to the spies it catches doesn't mean the other will be also. That's right up there with the Geneva convention. Just because we follow it doen't mean the other will. I do see your point however.


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## Night Fighter Nut (Aug 9, 2010)

Well I just got back from Russia and now I have sample of their view of this situation. Answers I got from them seem to fall along the different age groups. The younger generation is making all kinds of fun about it. There are now a few kid pamphlets about spies and spying on the local news stands. Tongue and cheek stuff mostly. The average adult doesn't care. The older generation feels embarrased and can't believe the stupidity of those caught. So there you have it. The situation as seen from both sides.


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 9, 2010)

That's pretty interesting. I imagine if it was the opposite Americans would feel the same way.


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## RabidAlien (Aug 9, 2010)

Probably true, VB. Most of what the younger-ish generations know about spying comes from "James Bond" and "Jason Bourne" movies.


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## Night Fighter Nut (Aug 10, 2010)

RabidAlien said:


> Probably true, VB. Most of what the younger-ish generations know about spying comes from "James Bond" and "Jason Bourne" movies.



That would most likely be the English speaking younger-ish generations. James Bond wasn't very well known in Russia where I was. They have their own spy novels and spy heros that we have never heard of.


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