# Unternehmen Luftbrücke (Operation Air Bridge), WW2Aircraft.net Group Build....



## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

OK fellas, after lengthy discussions, our Group Build is about to get underway.... Please use this thread for any and all discussions concerning this build off... All members that have previously posted what their entries will be, please re-post them here....

My choice for this Group Build is the Haegawa 1/32nd Fw 190D-9, "Red 1", flown by Heinz Sachsenberg of JG44.... I am in the process of painting and finishing this model....

Check my in-progress build thread here:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/modeling/my-next-endeavour-hasegawa-s-1-32nd-fw-190d-9-a-12977.html


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## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

From the other threads....


Airframes said:


> Senior Member
> 
> As it's Lucky's idea for the Group Build, and an excellent one too, I reckon it's up to him to decide what can and can't be done. For instance, the number of entries per person, the dates (of the period concerned), whether Reichs Defence Command only or defending the Reich from other countries, eg France and so on.
> My suggestions would be:- Up to one entry per scale per 'contestant', from 1/72nd to 1/24th scales. Dates, late 1943 to May 1945; any Luftwaffe aircraft, anywhere, involved in defending against attacking allied aircraft.
> ...


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## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

More...


Airframes said:


> I think that just about covers everything, Jan. Only thing I would add is, what you pointed out about those building in one scale only, including yourself. In that case, yes, I think as there are 4 major scales, then a total of four models, either one maximum per scale if doing all four scales, or four in one scale, or a combination; for example, 1 in 1/72nd, 2 in 1/48th, 1 in 1/32nd. If the others think that's fair?
> As for my entry (possibly entries), I'll abstain from being counted in the votes, I'll just chuck something in for the hell of it!
> Now, some pics of the other 'prize'.
> This is the original 'Frog' 1/72nd scale kit, circa 1965, which I have had since new! I used to build quite a lot of Frog models, along with Airfix, as they were both predominant in the late 50's and 60's. By today's standards, these kits are very basic, which will be evident when you see the pics, but they were always accurate, and built up into nice replicas. With a bit of work, scratch-building bits, long, long before the days of aftermarket accessories or detailing parts, which weren't even dreamed of then, some very nice models were produced. The original Frog range was vast and, when they folded, or retired, many kits were re-introduced by 'Novo', using the original moulds, I believe in Russia. The quality then was not as good, but generally acceptable, considering how worn the original tools must have become.
> ...


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## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

More...


Wayne Little said:


> As I said earlier I would rather judge than compete...I may throw something in just to contribute to the build....
> 
> It would seem that for the most part, from the posts so far, that we have beginner/novice and Intermediate classes of modellers putting their hands up, sound about right?
> 
> ...


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## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

More...


Matt308 said:


> Can I suggest that to keep the intimidation factor to a minimum for the Class 3 participants that we just keep the build requirements to:
> 
> 1) Beginning and ending dates for completion.
> 
> ...


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## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

Matts PDF file for Rules etc etc ... This needs to be finalized....
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/at...nehmen-flug-brucke-group-build-2009-rules.pdf


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## Njaco (Dec 28, 2008)

Category 2; Intermediate
Me 410 B-1/U2/R4 
Pro Modeler/Revell-Monogram. 
1/48 scale
Major Eduard Tratt of II./ZG 26
Time Period: February 1944
New-out of box


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## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

Post a pic of the box/artwork Chris???


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## Njaco (Dec 28, 2008)

Done.

(What have I gotten myself into??!!  )


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## Erich (Dec 28, 2008)

Njaco

a personal comment if I may, do not trust the box art for Eduards Crate. am wondering if the yellow dutch shoe was present on the engine nacelles and for a fact ZG 26 did not carry the wide white defense band, as that belonged to the Bf 110G-2's of II./ZG 1. ZG 26 wore a narrow white band if any band at all. A wide yellow one was worn by ZG 76 110's and Me 410's.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 28, 2008)

Damn I should have gotten involved with this. It sounds like fun.


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## Lucky13 (Dec 28, 2008)

Just do it Chris...build one of Hartmann's machines! 8)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 28, 2008)

I do not have time at the moment. A lot of work, going to London and lots of concerts. Besides my airbrush is broke. Santa did not bring me a new one...


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## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

Awwww... Thats a bummer Chris... Hows the translation of Operation Air Bridge look Chris and Erich???


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## Erich (Dec 28, 2008)

Les yes the translation for this thread will work fine ..........

E ~ ok guys lets see the action !!


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## Airframes (Dec 28, 2008)

Thanks for the clarification of the translation Erich. I always take the word as 'Undertake' (Unternehmen') to mean 'To undertake', roughly the equivalent to the British 'Operation' - to undertake (operate/operation) Overlord, for example. 
Chris, here's a pic and profile that might help you a bit. The B&W photo is of Me410B-2/U2, W.Nr. 710340, thought to be from ZG26, summer 1944. Note fuselage band. I have somewhere a photo showing the white clog on an engine cowling, and one without the clog. Looks like not all aircraft wore the badge. Hope this helps.
Jan, glad you suggested this scheme, it's generated a lot of interest and enthusiasm, well done!
Und so, loss Unternehemen Flugbrucke! (sorry, can't get umlauts on this system!)
Terry.


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## Erich (Dec 28, 2008)

Terry it is actually an A-1/U2 not a B series

and closer examination the B-1's and B-2's of II./ZG 26 DID have a wide white band. II./ZG 26 symbol was a wooden shoe usually yellow. I./ZG 26 symbol was a yellow jacket. for both Gruppes the symbol was not always worn. Also your profile is incorrect as II./ZG 26 no longer existed after July 1944 so the Me 410 could not be from the autumn 1944 time period. the unit became the cadre for single engine fighter unit ............ oh yee haw, formed the basis for the JG 6 unit. most likely the profile should read autumn 1943.


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## Njaco (Dec 28, 2008)

Erich and Terry, thanks for the pics and updates. I agree its a little hazy about ZG 26 markings. One source I found said that the white band was retained after getting the machines from ZG 1 but I'm assuming those would be Me 410As not the Bs that they receved in Feb. The Gruppe emblem I'm up in the air as I have almost no reference pics or books about ZG 26 except on the net which I find can be trying.

I think all in all, unless I find something definative, I'm going to go with the generally accepted scheme.

And maybe this post should be moved to a more appropriate thread instead of this one - maybe one of the first ones about the build.


oops! Just noticed the other threads are closed.


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## Erich (Dec 28, 2008)

throw the wide band on it, forget the wooden shoe in my thoughts, use the 3U + ?? marking and not the colored number as that was usually for ZG 76 crates, in fact I am trying to find any ZG 26 machines using numerals and the second gruppe bar. ZG 76: II. gruppe used the numerals that is fact.


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## Airframes (Dec 28, 2008)

Thanks Erich. That profile is from a rather old publication, examaination of which has revealed a few inaccuracies here and there. The 'winged clog' badge I have seen photos of, and decals, in white. As I understand it, the badge originated from the unit's early base postings in Holland. However, you are right, evidence of the badge appearing on '410's is rare, whatever the colour. I'll try to find some more pics, as I'm sure I've got some somewhere; I must get a better filing system!


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## 109ROAMING (Dec 28, 2008)

Category 3 beginner
Me-109K-4 
Revell
1/48
Don't know the pilot of IV./JG 53
Build out of box(with some additional decals )


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## Lucky13 (Dec 28, 2008)

Category 3 Beginner....(I think, will use aftermarket decals and flattened wheel and possibly prepainted instrument panels...(HELP! Right category?)...)
Bf 109G-10 "Yellow 13" Pilot, Heinrich Bartels.
Bf 109K-4 "Yellow 13" Pilot, unknown.
Both are Hasegawa 1/48
OOB besides aftermarket decals, flattened wheels and prepainted instrument panel...
1 or 2 (G-10's) whichever I can find...and 3 (K-4) which I think I've ordered from Hannant's, still not received an order confirmation, have e-mailed them though.

Finding out more about Heinrich Bartels "Yellow 13" will fun, interesting and educational!


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## javlin (Dec 28, 2008)

Does this guys machine fit the time frame??Deacls or instruction say nothing about era of operation and I am lazy right now and too much knowledge floating in this thread.Oh yea class 2 with Verlindin kit.kevin

I got unlazy kill 120 occurred 2.10.1943 11:40 P-39


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## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

Guys, if we're gonna do this right, the discussions on ur particular model should be put into a thread concerning ur specific build....

So, Chris, if u would, start a new thread titled "Me 410 B-1/U2/R4 by Njaco" and the specific questions can get answered there without cluttering up this thread....


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## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

And u can put it in the Start to Finish Builds....


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## Lucky13 (Dec 28, 2008)

I'll start my thread as soon as I've got everything sorted...


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## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

If doing multiple builds, I suggest doing a different thread for each build...


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## Lucky13 (Dec 28, 2008)

Right Dan, cool....was just going to ask about that. 8)


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## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

Great minds think alike Brother Jan...


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## Njaco (Dec 28, 2008)

Will do. Erich, I'm gonna post a question there about Tratt's machine that your response brought to mind. Oh, and Javelin, that mk of the Bf 109 should be fine but the boxart depicts Hartmann's machine I believe and he was on Eastern Front duties, not Reichsverteidigung.


Carry on.


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## javlin (Dec 28, 2008)

Njaco would not that still be a defense of a front some had the W with bomber command and others the E with the advance of the Russkies??


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## Njaco (Dec 28, 2008)

It actually was two seperate fronts until the last days. Reichs defense (Reichsvertiedigung) was more like a Luftflotte when concieved. The Eastern Front had its own 2 or 3 Luftflotte while the West had Luftflotte in Occupied Europe to defend and then the special Reichsver. over Germany itself. At least on paper.

Hartmann defiantely was on the Eastern Front though at the later stages it could be construed as defending the Reich.


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## rochie (Dec 29, 2008)

Category 3 beginner
bf-109 K4 
Revell
1/48
useing the decals from the box depicting red 7 of IIIJ/G27
also in the same category 3
fw 190 A8
academy
1/72
black 5 of III J/G 54 in a 76/74/75 scheme as discussed in another thread


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## BombTaxi (Dec 29, 2008)

OK, I'll give this a go...

Category 3 (Beginner)

Italeri No. 1266

1/72nd scale Do 217J-2

II/NJG101, Hungary, 1944

Built straight OOB, including decals


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## Matt308 (Dec 29, 2008)

Nice! Excellent BombTaxi.


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## lesofprimus (Dec 29, 2008)

Yea, real nice...

I think we've got our Judges figured out, with Wayne, Terry, Erich, Charles and possibly Eric as well....


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## ccheese (Dec 29, 2008)

lesofprimus said:


> Yea, real nice...
> 
> I think we've got our Judges figured out, with Wayne, Terry, Erich, Charles and possibly Eric as well....




Thanks, Dan. You guys will notice, I am not entering a model. You don't
have a class that I would fit into. You numbers don't go that high ! I'd
be in the "never built one before" class. I love those rubber powered,
balsa/tissue planes !

Charles


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## Erich (Dec 29, 2008)

yes I will have to be one of the judges, building a model, man I cannot even think of the time frame that I last built up one - maybe elementary school for an aviation theme - must have been a B-24 I shot to pieces with an overugly Fw 190A-8 flying in behind covered in glue.

lets just say I will be more than available to help out with research going towards these very interesting builds

good luck to all !

E ~


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## javlin (Dec 29, 2008)

Erich does Hartmann's plane on the E front work or do I need to go W?Also if I need to go W how about some Gruppe #'s so I know what I am looking for at the LHS.Kevin


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## Erich (Dec 29, 2008)

Kevin it is up to you, my strong points are for the western front crates. I can hep you with gruppes if you so desire, JG 53 operated all the G and k variants of the 109. black fuselage band as standard fit in 45, if you want to do a G-14/AS, G-10 or K-4.

let me know......you have G-10's fitted in III./JG 300 as an example with blue/white/blue rear defense band. JG 4 III. gruppe flew G-10 and K-4 but on the Ost front but they still carried their western front defense band of black, white, black. just some x-amples for you.


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## Njaco (Dec 29, 2008)

Sorry Kevin if I confused you but I bow to the judges wisdom.


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## A4K (Dec 30, 2008)

Okay... after MUCH deliberation and frustation trying to think of what I'd love to do most, versus what I realistically have time for, I pretty much gave up on it all, so I decided to offer my darling (and enduring!) fiancée - without whose patience and tolerance nothing would get done anyway ) )- a brief outline of aircraft used in the Defence of the Reich on all fronts with a list of my 9 most preferred to choose from...

The result: 4 aircraft were chosen - and so my entries will be (in order of Ivett's preference, and order of build, as and if time allows: )

1. Messerschmitt Me 163B-1a Komet (Academy 1:72) - it's "cute"!  

2. Heinkel He 162A-1 or A-2 (Dragon 1:72) - also "cute", but not as much as the 163...

Also chosen were the Focke-Wulf fw 190A-8/F-8 ("not bad"), and Focke-Wulf fw 190D-9 ("not bad either, but the short one's better" - the poor Ta 152 was considered ugly...), but I'll be lucky if I even have time for the first two at the moment.


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## lesofprimus (Dec 30, 2008)

The only crate of Hartmanns that I would consider doable for this build would be in the very last stages of the War, either April or May 1945....


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## tango35 (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello folks,
after changing the modeling/modelling section here i enter the Reichsdefense GB as Class 2 Builder.8) 

Both Aircrafts were part of a flight on 27th November 1944 from 3rd Group JG 26. They atarted from Plantelünne AB; through icing the windows and many other reasons (lack of training, new machines with technical failures, etc.) they didnt had a real chance. 
Only one ac survived, because its oil pipe broke and the aviator landed at Rheine AB. Here he saw that the 2 airplanes went to ground.
(The story behind the build is published in JG 26 War Diary by J.Caldwell, 1943-1945, PP 381-382 ).

The first :
Messerschmitt Me 109 G-14, Black 16, WNr 460514
Hasegawa 1/32








The second :
Messerschmii me 109 K-4, Blue 26, WNr 330152
RoG 1/32 reboxed Hasegawa







greets

Thomas


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## Airframes (Dec 30, 2008)

Righto chaps! Not counting Wayne and myself, so far there are 8 entries for Unternehmen Flugbrucke. These are, in the order received, and with Category entry:-
Lesofprimus Cat 2
Njaco Cat 2
Lucky 13 Cat 3
Javlin Cat 3
rochie Cat 3
Bomb Taxi Cat 3
A4K Cat ?
Tango 35 Cat 2
There is plenty of time to finalise the details of the actual numbers and type/scales of entry, and as long as these details are submitted no later than say, early April, that should be OK. I have recorded those kit details submitted so far. 
If you haven't already done so , could you please let me know which category you intend entering.
Eight entries is a very good start in the the short space of time since the concept was first mooted. However, there are more modellers on this forum who have not expressed an interest in joining in, and Ii am wondering whether, after all the in-depth discussion, some of these may feel intimidated or out of their depth. Personally, I believe that this Group Build is a wonderful way to broaden knowledge and improve skills, and that entering this 'competition' is a way of focusing ones self in order to do a better job.
To this end, I will post a separate thread under the 'Start to finish builds' heading, in the hope of attracting more modellers to the fray.
In the meantime, 'Frohliche Frie Jagd!'
Terry.


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## Heinz (Dec 30, 2008)

Terry I'm most definately participating I just need to find a kit(s) to build.

I should finalise my details by Friday.

Cheers


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## Njaco (Dec 30, 2008)

Terry, I'm actually entering as Cat 2 - just to keep tango on the straight and narrow!


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## Airframes (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks Heinz, no rush, you can pass on details when you know what you're doing, along with the category you place yourself in.
Chris, thanks, I've noted you as Cat 2.
Now for the massive influx of other entries...........


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## tango35 (Dec 31, 2008)

A happy new year to everyone around the globe and of course here on the board.

It seems that i have the honor to open the GB with the first report. Both kits were unpacked and washed. Now they are drying. Later this day i will prepare them ( drilling holes, checking the references ).

so long guys

ready for Freie Jagd

Thomas


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## Matt308 (Dec 31, 2008)

Your not first, Tango. Check out the threads in the Start to Finish Builds Sub-Forum.

May I suggest that you start a similar thread for your work in the same Sub-Forum. Look forward to your pics!


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## lesofprimus (Dec 31, 2008)

And Tango, make a seperate thread for each model build and title ur threads the same way we have the other ones in the Start to Finish Section... I will sticky it for u when u get em up....


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## Erich (Dec 31, 2008)

Tango whereabouts in Hannover or on the outside pf the city ? My grandmother was born in Hannover..........small world it is.

Gruß

E `


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## muller (Dec 31, 2008)

I'm in, just bought one of these, 1/48 Hasegawa FW 190A-6.






1./JG1 Unteroffizier Rudolf Hübl "White-5", does he qualify? Doing a quick search online, Rudolf bellylanded his 190 near Nienburg/Weser on 8th Oct 1943 after shooting down two B-17's.

If this kit is OK, cat 2 (I reckon!) built OOB.


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## Erich (Dec 31, 2008)

Muller that Fw should have outter wing 2cm cannon.........yes ? as it is an A-6. not sure his A/C had the black eagle over the exhaust but will check references


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## 109ROAMING (Dec 31, 2008)

Terry you forgot me!

Category 3 beginner
Me-109K-4 
Revell
1/48
Don't know the pilot of IV./JG 53
Build out of box(with some additional decals)


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## Matt308 (Dec 31, 2008)

Excellent choices Muller and 109!!


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## slaterat (Dec 31, 2008)

lesofprimus said:


> Matts PDF file for Rules etc etc ... This needs to be finalized....
> http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/at...nehmen-flug-brucke-group-build-2009-rules.pdf



This sounds like fun. I'd rate myself an experianced cat 2 without an airbrush. I'm thinking about getting one though. I've got 2 qualifying kits on the shelf I'll get some pictures up later.

a Hasegawa 1/72 scale of Rudels 190 and

A 1/48 original Monogram kit from the 70 s I believe. its got some optional varients.

I've got a broken ankle right now and its cold out so hopefully I can find the time.

Slaterat


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## Lucky13 (Dec 31, 2008)

Wish you a speedy recovery mate! Looking forward to see your build! 8)


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## Airframes (Dec 31, 2008)

OK M, I've got you listed, in Cat 2, FW190A6. think I've got pics that might help.
Daniel, OOPS! Sorry mate, and I've already got you listed! 
Slaterat, thanks. Chuck in a post when you finalise. and I'll complete your entry listing.
Thanks guys, we're now up to 11 entries.
Terry.


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## muller (Jan 1, 2009)

Cheers Terry, Erich is right though, that bird should have outer 20mm cannons, maybe the box pic is innacurate and the kit has them, I'll have to wait till I get it to check.


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## Erich (Jan 1, 2009)

Slaterat:

will you build Rüdels Fw 190F-8 or his Dora 9 ?


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## Heinz (Jan 2, 2009)

My first entry:

Academy 1/72 
FW 190 A8 'Heinz Bär' which includes a kübelwagen.

Cat 3 OOB, I'm still a brush painter so I'm a little apprehensive about getting the camo to look reasonable, but we shall see.

Cheers,

Alex.


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## Airframes (Jan 2, 2009)

Nice one mate! The mottle is a bit tricky in 1/72nd scale, but it can be done to a reasonable extent. I did mine with a '00' brush, with the paint slightly thinned, and just lightly touched in the mottling 'spots', in a gentle, almost circular motion. Alternatively, you can use the tip of a cotton bud, almost dry. When the mottle is totally dry, go over it VERY lightly, with a broad dry-brush of the base colour (RLM76), just to diffuse the mottle slightly. Once the entire model has had a coat of gloss (for the decals), and then a coat or two of semi-matt clear finish, you should find that the result looks quite good.
BTW, what I've just described was done with Humbrol enamels; you might need to alter it a bit, and/or practice, if using acrylics, as they're not as versatile in use, compared to oil-based paints.
Terry.


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## Dingo (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi All,

Count me in for a cat 3. This will be my first model so tomorrow I go hunting warbirds. (I have just joined the site today, so be gentle).


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## Lucky13 (Jan 2, 2009)

Welcome to the family Dingo!


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## lesofprimus (Jan 2, 2009)

Hey Fellas, remember to start up a new thread in the Start to Finish Build Section for ur proposed entry....

Yes, Im talking to Heinz in particular.....


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## Wayne Little (Jan 2, 2009)

Hey Dingo how did you get through the fence!  Welcome mate!


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## Wayne Little (Jan 2, 2009)

muller said:


> Cheers Terry, Erich is right though, that bird should have outer 20mm cannons, maybe the box pic is innacurate and the kit has them, I'll have to wait till I get it to check.



The kit definitely has the outboard cannons Muller!

Ah....glad you got your finger out Alex and got organised...good choice mate.


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## Lucky13 (Jan 2, 2009)

Well, hopefully I'll be able to order my G-10 and paints this week...and weighted wheels....bl**dy eager to get started!


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## Wayne Little (Jan 2, 2009)

Lucky13 said:


> Well, hopefully I'll be able to order my G-10 and paints this week...and weighted wheels....bl**dy eager to get started!



Are we talking Hasegawa 1/48?


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## Lucky13 (Jan 2, 2009)

Indeed we are Wayne! Either one of these two...8)


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## Dingo (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks guys, I'm a smart little Dingo, Wayne!


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## Lucky13 (Jan 2, 2009)

Must be old boy....being a dingo that can surf the internet, getting through a fence shouldn't be a problem...


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## Airframes (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi Dingo and welcome! That's what we like to see, just joined and straight in at the deep end! Great stuff! I've listed you as Cat 3, so just start a separate post, as Dan said, when you're ready, and I'll get the details from that.
It's looking good chaps, only 2 days in, and 13 entries so far. (Note the number Lucky!!)


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## Wayne Little (Jan 2, 2009)

Got the White 3 kit Jan, but not Yellow 20....


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## Heinz (Jan 2, 2009)

G'day Dingo! Welcome mate 

I'll get a thread up a running Sunday for my 190. 

Thanks for the advice Terry, it will be used thats for sure. I use enamels too mate. 
Cheers.


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## slaterat (Jan 2, 2009)

Erich, 

The kit is Rudels Dora, and the Mongram kit , I'll build as an A 8 with the 20 mm gun pods. I'm starting a post right away.

Slaterat


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## slaterat (Jan 2, 2009)

Here are the two kits : 






in 1/72 and






This kit is from 1973, in 1/48 scale. One of my old time best friends gave it to me from his dads collection, after he passed away a few years ago. It contains parts and decals for 6 versions.

Slaterat


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## Erich (Jan 2, 2009)

are you using box art and enclosed camo instructions only Slat ? I do want to say Rüd's Dora has been covered elsewhere but am trying to think just where ....... ?

anyone ?


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## slaterat (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm not sure what I'll do with the A-8, but In the instructions on Rudels Dora it says the camo scheme is a "presumptiom", so I'll have to research it.

Slaterat


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## Airframes (Jan 2, 2009)

Sorry if I missed it Slat', but which Category are you putting yourself in?


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## Dingo (Jan 3, 2009)

I have decided on a 1/72 scale Ju 388 for my attempt. I chose it as I thought it would be something different and didn't look too difficult for a first go. Has an interesting history too. Will post a pic of the box later.


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## Wayne Little (Jan 3, 2009)

Heinz said:


> I'll get a thread up a running Sunday for my 190.
> 
> Cheers.



Will that be after confession...mate?


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## Lucky13 (Jan 3, 2009)

We'll have to wait until Monday then, if he's off to do some confession....


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## Heinz (Jan 3, 2009)

Confession! If thats the case you won't see me till next year!


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## tango35 (Jan 3, 2009)

Help comes by request :

Here a photo evidence of Rudels Fw 190 D9, WNr. 5005, SG2, April 45 Grossenhain







greets

Thomas


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## slaterat (Jan 4, 2009)

Thanx tango, thats the only Known piture of Rudels Dora. 

Airframes I'm a cat 2 


Slaterat


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## Airframes (Jan 4, 2009)

Thanks Slat', got you listed.
Terry.


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## Jgonzalez (Jan 4, 2009)

Ok guys I want to be in the GB. Must it be a Luft bird, 'cause I'm just starting Svezda's 1:48 La-5.


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## Lucky13 (Jan 4, 2009)

That's the plan with the group build mate, ANY Luftwaffe machine defending the Reich from September -43 to VE-Day -45....

Edit: Forgot to say that you can choose any scale from 1/72 to 1/24, maximum of 4 models, one in each scale or all in one...


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## Catch22 (Jan 4, 2009)

Category 2 Intermediate (I know what I'm doing, but I can't get results anywhere close to Wayne's, so I guess this is where I fit!)
Fw 190D-9
Tamiya
1/48
I think it'll end up being of an unknown pilot of Stab./JG4, have yet to make a definitive choice.
Built out of the box, unless I discover something horrible and end up having to add decals or something.


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## Airframes (Jan 5, 2009)

I'll be throwing in a FW190D, and possibly a Bf109. No category, as I'm not 'competing'. See separate post in the relevant thread thingy!


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 6, 2009)

Cool Terry 

One question on the group build ,Do I have to do my 109K-4 wheels down? Does it matter if I do it wheels up?


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## Lucky13 (Jan 6, 2009)

Any way you want mate....


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 6, 2009)

Sweet ,Wheels up it is!


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## lesofprimus (Jan 6, 2009)

Thats frickin Cheating!!!!!! I spent the better part of an hour last night detailing JUST the landing gear struts...


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 6, 2009)

Il do one of each then(one wheels up and one wheels down)


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## Wayne Little (Jan 6, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> Thats frickin Cheating!!!!!! I spent the better part of an hour last night detailing JUST the landing gear struts...



C'mon...Daniels aircraft will be wheels up going to defend the Reich, nice flying pose on some clear acrylic rod...maybe?....


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 6, 2009)

Exactly why I build 99% of my models wheels up...Warbirds look better flying


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## Njaco (Jan 6, 2009)

Wheels up?!! Then you better add some smoke or something comin' from the engine or MGs just to even things out!!


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## Lucky13 (Jan 6, 2009)

Build it in a dogfight you say chaps?


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 6, 2009)

hmmm...Genious! ,I'd have to a buy another 1/48 allied fighter (Hey! I've always wanted to do a bigger typhoon) 

After they're done with the Group build I'l put them in a diarama ,maybe wheels down


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## Lucky13 (Jan 6, 2009)

Build them in a tight turn during a dogfight then....8)


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## lesofprimus (Jan 7, 2009)

Pure genius...


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## Lucky13 (Jan 7, 2009)

Get a couple of clear rods and make it look one is trying its best to get on the others tail, maybe add a few bullet holes, some trailing smoke etc. etc.!


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 7, 2009)

Can use one of them for a dogfight with a Typhoon ,and the other intercepting a B-26 I made last year

Thanks for the idea Jan! legend


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## Airframes (Jan 7, 2009)

You could always do one with one leg down, and the other one up!
Could be retracting gear after take off, or one leg has dropped after the hydraulics have been shot out in a dogfight!
Must be painful, being shot in the hydraulics!!


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## Lucky13 (Jan 7, 2009)

No problem mate...any time!  Looking forward to see you to start this thing...


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## Lucky13 (Jan 7, 2009)

Airframes said:


> You could always do one with one leg down, and the other one up!
> Could be retracting gear after take off, or one leg has dropped after the hydraulics have been shot out in a dogfight!
> Must be painful, being shot in the hydraulics!!



That's an idea! How about if he could also add an pilot just as he climbs out of the cockpit and is in the last moment of getting ready to bail out, one foot on the seat, one on the edge of the cockpit and one hand on the canopy?


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## Airframes (Jan 8, 2009)

It's getting better by the minute......


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## lesofprimus (Jan 8, 2009)

And waaaay more complicated.... Give poor Daniel a break fellas....


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 8, 2009)

THANK YOU LES! ,Sorry guys to say no but I'm happy to do a dogfight scene but anything more than that would be pushing my comfort zone(I'm not experienced enough)Sorry!


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## Lucky13 (Jan 8, 2009)

Aaaaawwwwwww......coooooome oooooonnnnnn!


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## rochie (Jan 8, 2009)

the way these guys were talking i was sweating for you Daniel


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## Lucky13 (Jan 8, 2009)

(Makes chicken noises)    Easy to get carried away sometimes.


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 8, 2009)

After the 109's are done with the group build one can go in a dogfight scene with a Typhoon(Don't know if that ever happened ,but its 2 of my favourite fighters) and the other the G-10 can go in a scene with the B-26(if possible)

How does that sound?


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## Lucky13 (Jan 8, 2009)

Sounds good to me Daniel..! Go for it!  8)


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 8, 2009)

Awesome ,I give it to the end of this month and the corsair be done(I know my estimated build time arrivals are really bad,sorry! ) Then its on with the 109's


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## Lucky13 (Jan 8, 2009)




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## A4K (Jan 8, 2009)

109ROAMING said:


> Exactly why I build 99% of my models wheels up...Warbirds look better flying



I wanna see that prop moving then Daniel..!


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## Airframes (Jan 8, 2009)

Sounds good to me Daniel, and yes, there were combats with Typhoons and B26's. JG26 were involved in some, but I'd have to check to see which Bf109's or FW190's. But, what the heck, it's representative, and yours, so go for it!


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## Catch22 (Jan 8, 2009)

A4K said:


> I wanna see that prop moving then Daniel..!



Don't know how he did it, but my dad hooked up an F4U to a stand and got the prop to turn when you flip a switch. It's a 1/32 mind you, but can be done!


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 8, 2009)

A4K said:


> I wanna see that prop moving then Daniel..!




Can and will be done

I've got some small motors lying around somewhere which would be perfect


Thanks for the confirmation Terry!


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## Airframes (Jan 9, 2009)

If you need details of the JG26 combats Daniel, just give me a shout, as I have the book to hand. Without checking, I think there was a combat with 109K's against B26's, and another against Typhoons (might have been Doras though), when a scrap ensued against Spit XIV's, Jan '45. Nearly sure there's another account from late '44, involving both.


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 9, 2009)

Thanks for that Terry ,will give you a call when the time comes


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## Airframes (Jan 9, 2009)

OK mate, no probs.


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## Wayne Little (Jan 9, 2009)

109ROAMING said:


> Can and will be done
> 
> I've got some small motors lying around somewhere which would be perfect
> 
> ...



Wow...now we're really getting excited


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## GrauGeist (Jan 11, 2009)

109ROAMING said:


> ...I've got some small motors lying around somewhere which would be perfect...



I have some small DC motors here as well, if anyone needs some.

Two sizes, one being about 1" (26mm) in length by 5/8" (15mm) wide, the other (looks kind of like a radial) is 15/16" (23mm) wide by 1/2" (12.5mm) high.

They both operate on about 1 - 1.5 volts.

I'll include a picture to give a better idea of my description. Like I said, if anyone's interested, let me know and I'll be more than glad to get them on thier way 

I didn't have the time to join in on the build, but I'll be here to cheer everyone on!


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## Lucky13 (Jan 11, 2009)

You can join in anytime you want GG, there's no "join before date" only an end date which is VE-Day, 7th May 2009.... 
So grab yourself any Luftwaffe crate (late '43 to VE-Day '45) and get down and dirty with it...!


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## GrauGeist (Jan 11, 2009)

LOL...well, I haven't built a military model since...uh  

Good God, man...it must be almost 30 years since I've done one! Unless there's a category for "*sucks so bad, it leaves a vacuum*", then I don't have a chance!  

Seriously, I'll see if I can't get something together...


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## A4K (Jan 11, 2009)

Catch22 said:


> Don't know how he did it, but my dad hooked up an F4U to a stand and got the prop to turn when you flip a switch. It's a 1/32 mind you, but can be done!





109ROAMING said:


> Can and will be done
> 
> I've got some small motors lying around somewhere which would be perfect



I was only joking of course, but it would be cool to see some 'in-flight' photos of your finished models with the prop spinning..!

That's a very kind offer from GG too...




GrauGeist said:


> Good God, man...it must be almost 30 years since I've done one! Unless there's a category for "*sucks so bad, it leaves a vacuum*", then I don't have a chance!





   Do it anyway mate if ya have the time! Be good to see you in on this too!


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## Lucky13 (Jan 11, 2009)

I agree! I haven't touched something that's made of plastic since.....eerrmmm...I think that it was about the same time as...eeehhhh....hmmm...Blackbeard, Morgan and the chaps were at it!
So, as you see, you won't be alone!  8)


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 11, 2009)

Yeah I know A4 but well you did remind me I had them 

Nice offer GG ! sorry I've got 4 and that'l do me just fine!


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## A4K (Jan 11, 2009)

Always a pleasure to be of service!


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## GrauGeist (Jan 13, 2009)

Thanks for the encouragement, guys!

I think I have a 1/72 Bf109G kit up in the closet that might work. I'll check tomorrow and see


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## Heinz (Jan 13, 2009)

Good stuff GrauGeist get to it!


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## Lucky13 (Jan 13, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> Thanks for the encouragement, guys!
> 
> I think I have a 1/72 Bf109G kit up in the closet that might work. I'll check tomorrow and see



Good stuff GG, the more the merrier....


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## Wayne Little (Jan 14, 2009)

Yep. let's see something.......


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## rochie (Jan 14, 2009)

yeah come on GrauGeist join in mate


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## A4K (Jan 15, 2009)

I have a question guys....

We're all doing fighters for this RD build, but would training aircraft also fit into the build category? They are after all a largely unrecognised but essential chapter in any Defence force, past or present.

I have ulterior motives too, of course... while working on my Me 163 for the build, Ivett noticed in one of my books the S version (two seat trainer) and loved the look of it. I can build this version from the Academy kit, so it would be nice to make it for her, and still enter the build. 
Alex is doing an Me 163B in any case, so it would be an interesting type comparison I reckon.

Also I have to return shortly an MPM Fw 190S-5 (two seat trainer) which I'm borrowing for pattern forming for my own 190A-8/U-1 (converting from the Revell A-8/R-11). As this is a priority, it would be nice to be able to get this done, aswell as adding another unusual type into the fray...

What d'ya's reckon? I'll stick with the fighter element of course if anyone has any objections.

Evan


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## tango35 (Jan 15, 2009)

For my understanding training units were at first not ordered for Reichsdefense, but later on and evidence given in a Wochenschau film (Me 109 G-6, yellow 279, 281, probably JFS Zerbst ) advanced flight cadets were thrown into it. And furthermore every aircraft which had a special function in the Reichsdefense can be build ( here e.g. Me 110 F as Pathfinder for Operation Bodenplatte ).
For real trainer aircraft i see no place, because they had no active role, but it my single opinion.

greets

Thomas


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## A4K (Jan 15, 2009)

Ok, thanks Thomas. 

What do the rest of you think?


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## Airframes (Jan 15, 2009)

If as a pure trainer, although I see your point Evan, I'd say no, as they did not physically take part in Reichs Defence. However, as there is evidence of training UNITS being employed, as there was with the RAF, then that would be a different matter. I'm not 100% sure, but there may be evidence of the Komet trainer version seeing 'combat introduction' experience, when some were 'thrown up' in order for pilots to become accustomed to tactics and closing speeds etc. Maybe someone can clarify this.
Certainly other types, such as '109's, from training units saw combat.


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## A4K (Jan 16, 2009)

Thanks Terry! 

I guess I'll stick closer to the theme then, unless someone can confirm that comment about the Komet trainers.

Will have a rethink about what to enter for the build.


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## GrauGeist (Jan 17, 2009)

Alright...in the midst of all the chaos someone has called "the New Year", I've relented and dug up an old kit that's been sitting on the shelf for longer than I will admit to...

I'll head over to the Start to Finish area and post some details...

Oh, and thanks to everyone for tempting me with yet "another" project!


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## Wayne Little (Jan 17, 2009)

Good on ya mate!


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## Airframes (Jan 17, 2009)

Nice one Dave! I'll put you on the list, just let me know what model, scale and Category when you're ready.
Terry.


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## GrauGeist (Jan 17, 2009)

Airframes said:


> Nice one Dave! I'll put you on the list, just let me know what model, scale and Category when you're ready.
> Terry.



Hey Terry, just for the record!

Kit: Starfix Bf109G6

Scale: 1/48

Category: 3

And I've started a thread in the "Start to Finish" category. It's going to be Schilling's 9./Jg54 Bf109G6/R4 from 1944.


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## Airframes (Jan 17, 2009)

Cheers Dave, all noted.
Right chaps, we now have 16 confirmed entries for the first Group Build, which isn't bad, but there's room for more! (That's 16 people, not models.)
So come on you modellers, there are four months in which to do something, anything, that fits the bill, so chuck something in and join the fun!
I'll give it a week or so, and then post an updated list of the entries. May I point out that, if you haven't already, please give some thought to the photography needed for the final pictures of your entry/entries, the ones required for judging!
I hope to have the photography guide finished very soon, which may help some of you. The judges (and the rest of the viewers!) will require good, sharp, clear pictures, from various angles, in order to reach a fair decision regarding each model entered. No doubt the actual requirements will be discussed, and the results of same posted, in order that everyone entering can provide the same type of shots.
For those new to the forum, or those guests viewing, please don't be put off by all the pre-build 'chat' that has gone before; it's natural which such a new, and enthusiastically received, idea. Sign up, or join and sign up for this, the first ww2 aircraft.net, Worldwide, internet Group Build!
All entries are welcome, whether it's a first attempt, or a First Place winner; no one will cast disparaging remarks, and everyone here will help and advise as required. We all had to start somewhere, and we are all still learning, no matter how long some of us have been at it!
I look forward to running out of note paper for the entries list!
Regards to all.
Terry.


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## Heinz (Jan 18, 2009)

Recently just bought a Pentax K 200D Terry so I'm looking foward to the photography side of things.


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## GrauGeist (Jan 18, 2009)

Way to go, Heinz!

I have a Pentax K100D, and for closeups detail shots, I use my Pentax SMC-D FA 1:2.8 100mm Macro


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## Heinz (Jan 19, 2009)

Very cool GG


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## GrauGeist (Jan 24, 2009)

Thanks Heinz...what we should do, is get Terry to start a camera thread where we can discuss and show off our gear 

And now I have a question regarding the rules of the Gruppen build...

Class 1 is where you take a stock model out of the box and just build it, I believe. But if you realize that there is nothing for a cockpit except a little pilot who, if installed, would appear to be floating in midair, can you make a few basic mods and still remain in the Class 1 without getting put on report?






By saying basic mods, I'm talking about placing something in there to look like a cockpit...at least a seat and backplate. This is a 1/48 kit, so there is no real hope of detail and customness, but rather something to fill the void.


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## Airframes (Jan 24, 2009)

Sod it! I'd just finished the reply to this, when the mouse on my PC took flight, and clicked on the 'off' button! Had to re-connect to the 'net! Must get a new one, even though the present one is only a couple of months old!
Anyway, yes, I can do something on the photography bit if you wish. And I'm sure others will want to contribute. As soon as I get the Photography Guide finished, I'll see what I can do. I've been waiting to get my own digital camera, as I'm using a slightly 'old hat' borrowed digital compact at present. I was going to get a DSLR, but can't really justify the cost, considering my slightly limited photographic involvement these days. So, I'm keeping my 'pro' 35mm equipment, and, hopefully, I'll be getting a digital 'hybrid' sometime next week - unless my financial calculations go t!ts up! The camera is a cross between a mid range DSLR and a compact, but with 10 Megapixels, 12x zoom, and super macro, and should cover most, if not all, of my present requirements.
The 'rules' for the GB are fairly simple Dave, basically as outlined below, but I'm sure Wayne will correct/explain any errors on my part.
Cat 1. Advanced/Expert, whatever you wish to call it. The use of accessories and advanced scratch-building and techniques allowed/expected.
Cat 2. Intermediate. Has good skills, and experience. A certain amount of modification/additions/scratch-building acceptable.
Cat 3. Beginner/Novice. Basic skills, able to build, paint and finish to a reasonably acceptable standard, probably 'out of the box'.
The level of detailing etc is, to a greater extent, down to the individual. But again, if Wayne doesn't mind, I'll let him answer any queries in this department.
The main requirement for ALL entrants, is to declare any mods/additions etc, and to provide photos and explanations along the way during the build. For the final judging stage, good, clear, sharp photographs will be needed for each model entered, and I think that, by the time these are required (early May), the format for the requirements will have been posted.


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## GrauGeist (Jan 24, 2009)

Oh for cryin' out loud...I was putting Catergory 1 as my entry...talk about being "bass-ackwards"...

I was meaning Category 3...lmao

But thanks for the reply, Terry! I just wanted to make sure that if I did something about the hole that is supposed to be a cockpit, I wouldn't be in foul of the rules!

I've had a number of setbacks on this kit as it is, one being time constraints and the other is that all of my modelling gear is well over 12 years old, although oddly enough, my model cement is still fresh...

I can definately provide photos for the cockpit fix


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## Njaco (Jan 24, 2009)

> Oh for cryin' out loud...I was putting Catergory 1 as my entry...talk about being "bass-ackwards"...



and you might have been the winner since I don't think anyone else is entered.


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## Wayne Little (Jan 24, 2009)

Airframes said:


> , if not all, of my present requirements.
> The 'rules' for the GB are fairly simple Dave, basically as outlined below, but I'm sure Wayne will correct/explain any errors on my part.
> Cat 1. Advanced/Expert, whatever you wish to call it. The use of accessories and advanced scratch-building and techniques allowed/expected.
> Cat 2. Intermediate. Has good skills, and experience. A certain amount of modification/additions/scratch-building acceptable.
> ...



That all sounds pretty good to me Terry....and any category does not have to modify, scratchbuild or add anything if they choose not to.


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## Airframes (Jan 24, 2009)

That's that sorted then! Cheers Wayne!


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## GrauGeist (Jan 24, 2009)

Thanks Wayne!

I just had to check, just in case I win with my incredible, lifelike and somewhat awe-inspiring entry, I don't want anyone saying that I cheated!


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## Lucky13 (Jan 24, 2009)

What!? Is it fullscale 1/1?!


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## GrauGeist (Jan 24, 2009)

I think so, if you consider 6 foot = 1.5"


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## slaterat (Jan 31, 2009)

Well I bought an airbrush last night for my group build entries. Its a dual action paasche its a 2p-V3. It shoud be a lot of fun, I'm lookin forward to starting my buidls very soon. Maybe a trial model first.

Slaterat


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## Lucky13 (Jan 31, 2009)

Looking forward to see your progress mate!


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## Airframes (Jan 31, 2009)

Me too! Sounds like a good buy on the airbrush, they are one of the original, 'old school, top notch' makes, used in the Graphics and Professional trade, well done.


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## lesofprimus (Jan 31, 2009)

Im jealous as a motherfu*ker....


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## Airframes (Jan 31, 2009)

Me too Dan! I'll just keep plodding on with my old, coal-fired airbrush! I have seen a reasonably good one at less than hald price though (£32), just waiting for some details to be e-mailed.


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## Wayne Little (Feb 1, 2009)

Lookin' forward to your builds slaterat...


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## A4K (Feb 21, 2009)

This is late, but I'm at a crossroads. 

Due to the nature of my Fw 190 build, I don't think anything will be finished by the deadline.
I've decided to put it on slow-build, and enter something else for the GB.

Just to be completely different, would anyone have a problem with me entering a Henschel Hs 123B-1 of II/SG 2, as serving on the Eastern Front late '43 - mid '44?


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## lesofprimus (Feb 21, 2009)

Thats not quite within the scope of this build man... We will be having an Eastern Front Group Build within the next year or so tho....

I will be, most likely, putting up my 1/32 Ju87G-2 for that one....


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## A4K (Feb 21, 2009)

Alright, cheers Dan. 
As I understood it, the build was about the Defence of the Reich on all fronts, from late '43 to '45.
I wanted to show that just as the Battle of Britain wasn't fought just by Spitfires, there were more than Focke-wulfs and Messerschmitts involved in the Reichs verteidigung...


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## Airframes (Feb 21, 2009)

I can see your point Evan, and I do sympathise, but the Henschel was an attack aircraft, not a defence aircraft. Sorry mate, but it'll be great to see it in the East front GB.


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## A4K (Feb 21, 2009)

Ok, thanks Terry. 

Not sure what I'll do then. What counts as a 'defence' aircraft? He 162? Ta 152? Ar 234?


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## Airframes (Feb 21, 2009)

Basically, anything that was countering the allied bomber, fighter bomber, or fighter offensive Evan. That is, acting as a fighter, or perhaps in the case of certain types, in support of fighters. For example, the Bf110's that dropped flares to assist the NJG's in their task. So, you'll be mainly looking a JG's, ErpGp's, and NJG's, plus, of course, specialised units such as JV44 etc.


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## A4K (Feb 22, 2009)

Ok, thanks mate. 

I think we need to clear up the build definition better in future, I completely misunderstood this one.


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## 109ROAMING (Feb 22, 2009)

I agree Evan ,I too was under the impression of "Defence of the Reich" Didn't know it was only one front


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## lesofprimus (Feb 22, 2009)

I do believe Jan wrote up accuratly enough in the beginning.... In most cases, its about having a fuselage band...

Reichsverteidigung



> Also, this is what Wikipedia have to say..."The Defense of the Reich (German: Reichsverteidigung) was the Nazi Germany campaign to "gain air superiority"in the European Theatre of Operations, particularly against the Allied strategic bombing during World War II. The campaign generally began with the Luftwaffe retreat from France and ended with the defeat of the Luftwaffe during the Battle of the Bulge."
> 
> They have the dates as from September 1944-January 1, 1945, so I think that we'll do it from September '43 to VE-Day, May 7th '45...how does that sound chaps?


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## A4K (Feb 22, 2009)

He also mentioned 'on all fronts' in the last version of the build plan I read, Dan... guess ya's changed it in between.


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## Lucky13 (Mar 4, 2009)

Would this be a good buy gentlemen?


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## A4K (Mar 4, 2009)

Should be pretty well informed if Donald Caldwell's in on it, Jan.


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## Lucky13 (Mar 5, 2009)

Cheers Evan, mate!


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