# French Foreign Legion training vs Seals etc.



## Torch (Feb 19, 2009)

Did a search but didn't come up with anything. How does the modern FFL training and performance compare to other elite forces around the world, watched a Military Channel program this morn about them, tough training etc. saw a Marine show right after and they are tough etc etc.


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## Blaydon (Feb 27, 2009)

The FFR are good troops certain of them like the 2nd REP are on a par with the US Rangers or Royal Marines but these are not SF.
There is a difference between highly trained units like these which are more highly trained than standard infantry and SF units like SEALs, SAS, SBS.

So they are good but not that good.

Most of these "elite" units are set appart by their traditions and Esprit de Corps. The SF are set apart by their excellence at their jobs.


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## fly boy (Feb 27, 2009)

i would like to see how a fight of all spec ops in the world how many are there?


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## evangilder (Feb 27, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> Blaydon got it right...
> 
> Ive been around some of the FFL guys in the past, and they showed the utmost respect for us SEALs....



As well they should.


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## Lucky13 (Feb 28, 2009)

Navy Seals hands down I think. FFL are tough boys, no doubt about that, but I think that they're a peg or two below the Seals....both in training and in equipment.


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## Lucky13 (Feb 28, 2009)

Well.....that would be lying, wouldn't it?


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## evangilder (Feb 28, 2009)

While the groups that I served with were fairly good at getting our way out of a jam, we did have one case where I thought it was over. Our call for help was answered by a team of SEALs that kicked ass, very fast, then disappeared as quick as they appeared. 

We also came across some FFL deserters. Yes, deserters. I don't think I have ever heard of a SEAL deserting. And, from personal experience, I never had the FFL save my ass.

If the fit hit the shan, I would want the SEALs for assistance above anyone else.


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## Lucky13 (Feb 28, 2009)

Well...duuuuh, real "bad ass"! Agree with you Dan! As for the SEAL, SAS, SBS etc., I think that they know that they're THAT good, that they don't feel the need to prove it for anyone, like some others. Why would they, they have taken part in plenty of missions, to let their actions speak instead.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Feb 28, 2009)

I have to say the Navy SEALS have the better training. Nothing against the FFL, they're pretty tough, but I believe the SEALS are of a higher caliber.


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## fly boy (Mar 2, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> What kind of fu*ked up comment is that??? Are u fu*kin stupid in addition to ignorant and illiterate????



here let me revise this 

it would be interesting if you got a group of spec ops from each county and compare the training in one of those kill houses

ok back to topic i would go with the seals


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## Ferdinand Foch (Mar 2, 2009)

Yeah, I'm going with the Seals. FFL are good, but the Seals are just better at their job (was kinda hard for me to choose though, I really do like the legion). 
Well, don't know if this is relevant, but my grandpa (my mom's dad) used to be in the navy when he was younger (believe he's in his seventies, so he was probably in the navy in the fifties and sixties). Anyway, his ship, the carrier Tarawa, was docked somewhere in the Mediterranean, and a group of legionnaries where putting on a entertainment show for them. From what he told us, these legionnaires kinda scared him, since they all had stern looking faces, and that they weren't people to joke around with. I want to say that many of those legionnaires were Germans, I think either ex-members of the army or the SS.


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## Clay_Allison (Mar 2, 2009)

Ferdinand Foch said:


> Yeah, I'm going with the Seals. FFL are good, but the Seals are just better at their job (was kinda hard for me to choose though, I really do like the legion).
> Well, don't know if this is relevant, but my grandpa (my mom's dad) used to be in the navy when he was younger (believe he's in his seventies, so he was probably in the navy in the fifties and sixties). Anyway, his ship, the carrier Tarawa, was docked somewhere in the Mediterranean, and a group of legionnaries where putting on a entertainment show for them. From what he told us, these legionnaires kinda scared him, since they all had stern looking faces, and that they weren't people to joke around with. I want to say that many of those legionnaires were Germans, I think either ex-members of the army or the SS.


The Legion has always been full of the losers (and winners) of the last big war. Their open enlistment status (join from anywhere) makes their numbers surge whenever there is a surplus of combat veterans looking for work. I would bet there are plenty of former South African Defence Forces guys in the Legion (those that didn't get a job offer from EO)


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## Ferdinand Foch (Mar 2, 2009)

Oh, right, forgot about that part of the legion, whoops. Probably why a lot of the legionnaire songs have a little bit of German in them nowadays. Wait, clay, I'm kinda lost. Why would there be a lot of South African soldiers in the legion, did the South African government downsize their army or something?


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## Clay_Allison (Mar 2, 2009)

Ferdinand Foch said:


> Oh, right, forgot about that part of the legion, whoops. Probably why a lot of the legionnaire songs have a little bit of German in them nowadays. Wait, clay, I'm kinda lost. Why would there be a lot of South African soldiers in the legion, did the South African government downsize their army or something?


A bunch of the white guys left or were fired after the 1994 Mandela government took power. Some of them opposed integration of the armed forces, some of them had done some things in support of Apartheid that they didn't want to be prosecuted for later.


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## Ferdinand Foch (Mar 2, 2009)

ah, thanks for the clarification, clay. don't really know much about South Africa to begin with, but that helped a bit.


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## Clay_Allison (Mar 2, 2009)

Ferdinand Foch said:


> ah, thanks for the clarification, clay. don't really know much about South Africa to begin with, but that helped a bit.


After the Bolshevik revolution, there were a ton of White Army guys in the Legion, speaking French with a Russian accent.


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## Gnomey (Mar 2, 2009)

Going to take the SEAL's here. The FFL can be good soldiers but if you had to choose one team to have your back it would be the SEAL's.

As for RSA Foch, look at the information around on 32 Battalion a lot of those guys are now in the Private Bodyguard/FFL business these days. There was a lot of integration in the SADF (relatively more so than in real life). As the quote from Blood Diamond goes "There was no Apartheid in a fox hole"...


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## Clay_Allison (Mar 2, 2009)

Back on topic I'd put the FFL on par with large "elite" forces like US or Royal Marines and Army Rangers. They require a high degree of motivation, but they do not provide SEAL/SAS level training.


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## Arsenal VG-33 (Mar 2, 2009)

Is it even appropriate to compare SEAL vs. FFL? To me, this is a bit like comparing a B-25 to a P-51, you can't exactly put one over the other since they're built for completely different purposes. Same for the SEAL/FFL: They're trained for deployments that reflect their missions . I just don't think one can compare the two. 

France has SpecOp soldiers, but the FFL doesn't fall into that category. It would be more interesting to compare with one of the various commando groups, such as Commando _Hubert_, _Jaubert_, and _Trepel_ units.


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## Clay_Allison (Mar 2, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> I've played paintball with some SAS guys in Portugal and some Israeli SF fellas in Haifa, and we beat the snot out of them in every scenario we worked....
> 
> Im damn proud to say that the United States Navy SEALs are the most Elite Operators in the World gents.... Its almost insulting to compare us to FFL....


I entirely agree with you. The SEAL guys are scarier than anybody around that I've had secondhand contact with. (I don't know any SEALs firsthand)


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## Clay_Allison (Mar 2, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> not the truth...


Right, I gathered that, but I didn't want to count you as a friend only to have you tell me to take a running jump into an unknown impact point. 

With military people I claim to know them only with their consent.


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## seesul (Mar 3, 2009)

Dan, are you allowed to speak about your missions or is it still a secret?


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## Lucky13 (Mar 3, 2009)

I'm cool with that Dan! H*ck, I wouldn't even ask for any....d*mn, "stories" is so NOT the right word here, which word am I looking for...ops....even if we met over for a few pints, would talk about anything but that..
I know that we in Sweden don't have SOF like SEAL etc, more than our Attackdykare, Paras and Mountain Rangers etc. I'm still surprised that the Marines couldn't hack our week long march in the mountains.... But, that's 20 years ago, I'm sure that quality have improved now....  
One question about the SEAL's though Dan if I may, how many SEAL teams are they, how many is in a team?


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## KrazyKraut (Mar 3, 2009)

I wonder whatever happened to modesty.


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## SoD Stitch (Mar 3, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> Not the truth...



les, I know this is off-topic, but I'm a kind of a gearhead, so I'd be interested in knowing what your preferred primary and secondary firearms were. Were you issued a SOPMOD M4? How did you like it? What was your personal sidearm? I have heard some of the guys used custom-made M1911A1's, like a Kimber or a Baer, while others preferred the H&K Mk23. Any preferences? And, one more question: can you tell us which Team you were on? Or is that "need to know"?


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## SoD Stitch (Mar 3, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> Jan, until 2002 a SEAL team consisted of eight operational SEAL platoons and a headquarters element.... Nowadays a SEAL team has six platoons... A SEAL platoon is normally commanded by a Navy Lieutenant (O-3) and consists of 16 SEAL's and may divide into two squads or four elements.... All SEAL platoon personnel are dive, parachute, and demolitions qualified....



So, the smallest "unit" is a 4-man team, correct?



lesofprimus said:


> Not the truth...



I guess that would make it easier to find ammo in the field, too?



lesofprimus said:


> Still telling false information...



Hopefully, I never will . . . . . I'm not the hero-type . . . .


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## Clay_Allison (Mar 3, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> And just what the fu*k does that mean???
> 
> Jan, until 2002 a SEAL team consisted of eight operational SEAL platoons and a headquarters element.... Nowadays a SEAL team has six platoons... A SEAL platoon is normally commanded by a Navy Lieutenant (O-3) and consists of 16 SEAL's and may divide into two squads or four elements.... All SEAL platoon personnel are dive, parachute, and demolitions qualified....
> 
> ...


Props for doing what you did, you have more cool points than I'll ever get.


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## Clay_Allison (Mar 3, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> Thanks Clay, just did the job I was trained for....
> The smallest unit is a 4 man element or fire team, and this was not used very much...
> 
> There were 4 sides to myself and several other guys in the Detachments that used the AK...
> ...


A Marine I knew in college liked to say "Heroes are dead people, don't be a hero."


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## lesofprimus (Mar 3, 2009)

Too true....

I use the line, "Heroes run into burning buildings to rescue people they dont know..."


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## SoD Stitch (Mar 3, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> The only "Hero" types I knew in the Teams were the guys who rang the Bell in BUDs... There are no heros in the SEAL Team Community Stitch....



LOL! 

Good one, les . . .


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## seesul (Mar 4, 2009)

Dan, how long did you serve as a SEAL?


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## Lucky13 (Mar 4, 2009)

Much appreciated Dan thanks!


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## seesul (Mar 4, 2009)

In which countries were you on the missions, if it is not a secret...?


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## Amsel (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks for your service, Les.

Is the SPECOPS community growing? Has the recent conflicts showed a need for more trained operators and less hightec gadgets? It seems with the rising cost of keeping individuals in a combat zone and the need to use PMC's to cut cost that the need for higher trained individuals might be needed.
Thanks in advance.


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## Becca (Mar 4, 2009)

KrazyKraut said:


> I wonder whatever happened to modesty.



Ya know what Kraut person?? My husband is one of the MOST humble SEALs I have had the privilege of knowing..quite modest about the fact that he is a bad as* Motherf*cker. In my personal opinion he has NO reason to be modest about anything, he was out there with his life on the line for ungrateful f*cks just like you! 

I'll use a simple quote to sum up the fact that you just chapped MY as*.."it ain't braggin if you can back it up."


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks for discussing some of the details of the navy SEALS, and for your service Les!


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## KrazyKraut (Mar 4, 2009)

Les'Bride said:


> Ya know what Kraut person?? My husband is one of the MOST humble SEALs I have had the privilege of knowing..quite modest about the fact that he is a bad as* Motherf*cker. In my personal opinion he has NO reason to be modest about anything, he was out there with his life on the line for ungrateful f*cks just like you!
> 
> I'll use a simple quote to sum up the fact that you just chapped MY as*.."it ain't braggin if you can back it up."



He sure did not have his life on the line for the ungrateful f*ck that is me. Your wars are your wars. I served my time in my country's army. And from that time I also happe to know some Legionnaires. Who were not only good soldiers, but also polite and modest. One of the was in constant deployment for at least a decade, often under worst conditions and without fancy equipment. Lost two fingers and had his arms and chest were covered with 3rd degree burnings. Never told about it, never bragged about anything.

But as usual, you can't critizise the behaviour of someone who is in the armed forces or else you are unpatriotic, ungrateful, disrespecting or whatnot. What a nonsense.


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## Clay_Allison (Mar 4, 2009)

If a Navy SEAL chooses to carry himself with a badass attitude, it's his prerogative because he's a badass. Someone has to be the best and they are, even if there are a lot of guys who are also very very good. JMO.


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## seesul (Mar 4, 2009)

KrazyKraut, I don´t understand your post. My poor English knowledge might be the reason...
Always, when I wanted to know about Les service, I had to ask...and he answered. Also in past...not in this thread only...
Have you ever seen a thread like 'When I was a Seal' on this forum?


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## Becca (Mar 4, 2009)

KrazyKraut said:


> He sure did not have his life on the line for the ungrateful f*ck that is me. Your wars are your wars. I served my time in my country's army. And from that time I also happe to know some Legionnaires. Who were not only good soldiers, but also polite and modest. One of the was in constant deployment for at least a decade, often under worst conditions and without fancy equipment. Lost two fingers and had his arms and chest were covered with 3rd degree burnings. Never told about it, never bragged about anything.
> 
> But as usual, you can't critizise the behaviour of someone who is in the armed forces or else you are unpatriotic, ungrateful, disrespecting or whatnot. What a nonsense.




I said LIKE you, not that IS you..our wars..well, Sir you are toting the AMERICAN flag right below your name right on the left hand side<====default or NO..it is AMERICAN. 

I feel for your friend. Just like I feel for any person that has given all that he or she has for something they believe in..in this case, our freedoms. 
BUT, your friend is NOT my husband, who does NOT like to talk about his service, usually. He commented on this thread to clarify a situation, you decided to take a sour note on the proceedings and claim that he is un-modest, THAT is what I have a problem with. IF he chooses to talk about his experiences and share information with these gentlemen, WHO are you to insist that he be modest?? IF you don't like it, OH F*cking WELL! Theres probably another thread that you can rain upon...Call him out on being an as*hole or whatever..BUT modesty because he made the grade and served with one of the finest fighting forces on this planet??? I don't think so.. Check yourself. 

Nonsense??? Not so much..BAD FORM, yes..
JUST as much as it would be for you to walk into ANYONES conversation and state how the parties IN that conversation should conduct themselves. Does this serve as manners or proper modest etiquette in where ever you hail from...?? Probably not..you were baiting the conversation for a rebuttal..plain and simple.


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## Matt308 (Mar 4, 2009)

KrazyKraut said:


> But as usual, you can't critizise the behaviour of someone who is in the armed forces or else you are unpatriotic, ungrateful, disrespecting or whatnot. What a nonsense.



Yep. "What a nonsense". Thank you for your service. I expect more respect from those who served to those who served. Bye, bye.


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## Clay_Allison (Mar 5, 2009)

Les'Bride said:


> I said LIKE you, not that IS you..our wars..well, Sir you are toting the AMERICAN flag right below your name right on the left hand side<====default or NO..it is AMERICAN.
> 
> I feel for your friend. Just like I feel for any person that has given all that he or she has for something they believe in..in this case, our freedoms.
> BUT, your friend is NOT my husband, who does NOT like to talk about his service, usually. He commented on this thread to clarify a situation, you decided to take a sour note on the proceedings and claim that he is un-modest, THAT is what I have a problem with. IF he chooses to talk about his experiences and share information with these gentlemen, WHO are you to insist that he be modest?? IF you don't like it, OH F*cking WELL! Theres probably another thread that you can rain upon...Call him out on being an as*hole or whatever..BUT modesty because he made the grade and served with one of the finest fighting forces on this planet??? I don't think so.. Check yourself.
> ...


Just so I'm on record about this. Your husband is awesome too, for what it's worth coming from a mere school teacher.


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## SoD Stitch (Mar 5, 2009)

les, I apologize if I'm bothering you, but could you tell me which class you were in? And, did you train on the East coast or the West? History is a hobby for me, particularly military history; I just finished reading "Class-29: The Making Of U.S. Navy SEALs", by John Carl Roat.


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## Becca (Mar 5, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> Just so I'm on record about this. Your husband is awesome too, for what it's worth coming from a mere school teacher.



Clay, I hold teachers in a heroic regard, too. You are doing an amazing service for our country and our children, our greatest asset. IMHO. AND H*ll, nowadays you have to see a bit of combat yourselves.


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## seesul (Mar 5, 2009)

That was fast...what´s gonna be his next nickname? USsoldier?


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## Torch (Mar 5, 2009)

Thanks for some of the insights to the training involved with these groups and thanks to those who served in some of these discussed groups. You watch these shows and sometimes it's hard to judge or differentiate what they mean. If you listen and watch every body is the toughest,the best,was nice to see where the FFL might rank with(ex:Rangers).


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## smotalchaos (Mar 5, 2009)

Les, what is your opinion of Delta Force and US Marine Recon?


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## lesofprimus (Mar 5, 2009)

Both top notch Operators who know whats goin on.... Would rate the Delta guys slightly higher than Recon, but they both have different mission profiles and parameters, so its like comparing apples to artichokes.....


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## Clay_Allison (Mar 5, 2009)

Les'Bride said:


> Clay, I hold teachers in a heroic regard, too. You are doing an amazing service for our country and our children, our greatest asset. IMHO. AND H*ll, nowadays you have to see a bit of combat yourselves.


LOL, less than when I worked as a prison guard, but not by much.


smotalchaos said:


> Les, what is your opinion of Delta Force and US Marine Recon?


My Dad's best friend was a Marine Recon in Vietnam, and he was pretty.....different when he came back. My dad always said he wasn't always all the way back.


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## Wayne Little (Mar 9, 2009)

Interesting thread and detail, thanks for sharing just a little bit Dan...


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## RabidAlien (Mar 9, 2009)

Yes, very interesting! Thank you!


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## lesofprimus (Mar 9, 2009)

No problem fellas, my pleasure...


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## renrich (Mar 9, 2009)

Some really interesting stuff here. Many thanks. On the subject of the FFL, I read somewhere, perhaps in a Bernard Fall book that the FFL in Indo China had some former SS troops. Anyone confirm that? Had an uncle who was a CGM on USS Chicago, a CA, when WW2 began. He was in the Savo Island mess but was transferred off Chicago, made a warrant officer, and sent to China to serve with Chinese guerillas, I think Reds. He was a big man, tall and over 200 pounds. Came back after the war at about 160 pounds. He was close mouthed about what he did in China and is gone now. Anyone have any info that relates to that?


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## Colin1 (Mar 9, 2009)

renrich said:


> ...On the subject of the FFL, I read somewhere, perhaps in a Bernard Fall book that the FFL in Indo China had some former SS troops. Anyone confirm that? ...


Apparently
The book Devil's Guard was based upon it
Devil's Guard II was the sequel to it but unlike the original, was a fiction


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## Amsel (Mar 9, 2009)

renrich said:


> Some really interesting stuff here. Many thanks. On the subject of the FFL, I read somewhere, perhaps in a Bernard Fall book that the FFL in Indo China had some former SS troops. Anyone confirm that? Had an uncle who was a CGM on USS Chicago, a CA, when WW2 began. He was in the Savo Island mess but was transferred off Chicago, made a warrant officer, and sent to China to serve with Chinese guerillas, I think Reds. He was a big man, tall and over 200 pounds. Came back after the war at about 160 pounds. He was close mouthed about what he did in China and is gone now. Anyone have any info that relates to that?


I have read the same thing. Not surprising though; the SS were trained well and very disiplined. I know the U.S. Special Forces had a former SS man in the Green Berets. There were also some in Africa fighting for the PMC's in Rhodesia and Sierra Leone.


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## Jowan (May 11, 2011)

Comparing FFL and Seals is just stupid.
Seals are special ops, FFL not.

If you want to compare Seals with french special ops, you can with those :
ShadowSpear Special Operations - French Special Operations

1er RPIMa
13eme Regiment de Dragon Parachutistes
Commando Parachutiste De l'Air 10
Commando Hubert
Commando Jaubert
Commando Trepel
Commando de Montfort
Commando De Penfentenyo
ECTLO
Escadron Parachutiste d'Intervention de la Gendarmerie Nationale (EPIGN)
Groupe d'Intervention de la Gendarmerie Nationale (GIGN)
Recherche Assistance Intervention Dissuasion (RAID)

As you can read, FFL isn't in this list. This whole thread is about comparing oranges to apples.


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## Torch (May 17, 2011)

Why thank you Jowan, if you noticed on my first post that started this thread it was not just about Seals that I was asking to compare, as for those who served,Thank you,for those other posters thank you for some interesting points....


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## ya mum (Oct 28, 2012)

the australian SASr will murder the seals you yanks cant say **** about the ffl until you have done it. you all think you are all high and mighty but your not you are ****  the seals are good but there not spec ops standed the australian sas and British sas and NZ sas are 3 of the 10 best special forces in the world and seals are not in the 10 size does not matter skill does and yous have little so shut up thank you for reading


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 28, 2012)

Wow, your mother never taught you manners did she? Is that how you introduce yourself? Why are you acting like a dick? Is it because your mother did not love you enough? Is it because you were picked on as a child in school?

I think it best for you to go and play in someone else playground. You are not going to be very welcome here.

What a douche...

When you learn how to act like an adult, then you can come back.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 28, 2012)

I am tired of cleaning up this mess!

Just for the record, lesofprimus was never a Seal. He was fooling everyone.

THREAD CLOSED!!!


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