# US Navy Aircraft verses Luftwaffe Aircraft During WW 2



## airgodiva (Oct 29, 2009)

Can anyone tell me if the US Navy aircraft ( Wildcat / Hellcat , etc ) fought any German aircraft ( ME - 109 , FW - 190 , etc ) during WW 2 .

Thx
Airgodiva


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## Colin1 (Oct 29, 2009)

During the relief of Malta
HMS Eagle launched reinforcement Spitfires for the island. Cover was provided by the F4Fs of USS Wasp, so USN fighters were certainly in the frame for a Luftwaffe engagement. I don't know if they actually ran into any trouble so I'll have a look when I get home.


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## timshatz (Oct 29, 2009)

There was a fight between Wildcats and Vichy French fighters during the invasion of North Africa.


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## DBII (Oct 29, 2009)

I read about a big carrier strike mission planed for the USMC but the army refused to let them in theather. The army was still mad that the Corps got all of the press during WWI. The navy flew missions during Tourch. I do not remember if they flew during the Italian invasion. 

DBII


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## otftch (Oct 29, 2009)

I believe the F-4-F make the first kill against a German aircraft,a Ju-88,by a US fighter flown by the Brits.They called it the Martlet.
Ed


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## Colin1 (Oct 29, 2009)

timshatz said:


> There was a fight between Wildcats and Vichy French fighters during the invasion of North Africa.


Yeah
I was thinking Op Torch too but again, I wasn't sure if USN fighters actually tangled with the Luftwaffe so I didn't mention it; obviously the P-40s eventually did.


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## timshatz (Oct 29, 2009)

otftch said:


> I believe the F-4-F make the first kill against a German aircraft,a Ju-88,by a US fighter flown by the Brits.They called it the Martlet.
> Ed



Thought it was a Condor. Or I may be thinking about the first US kill during the war. IRMC, a Wildcat out of Iceland dropped a Condor within a week or two of Pearl Harbor.


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## Njaco (Oct 29, 2009)

Martlets were also used around Norway and the Baltic. I believe there were some scrapes there as well.


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## Butters (Oct 29, 2009)

timshatz said:


> Thought it was a Condor. Or I may be thinking about the first US kill during the war. IRMC, a Wildcat out of Iceland dropped a Condor within a week or two of Pearl Harbor.



It was a P-38 that made the first Luftwaffe kill in WWII. The mission was flown from Iceland, and IIRC, a P-39 or P-40 also played a role in the downing of the FW200.

Does anyone know if USN Wildcats were ever based in Iceland?

JL


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## GrauGeist (Oct 30, 2009)

airgodiva said:


> Can anyone tell me if the US Navy aircraft ( Wildcat / Hellcat , etc ) fought any German aircraft ( ME - 109 , FW - 190 , etc ) during WW 2 .
> 
> Thx
> Airgodiva


During Operation Torch (November 1942), 15 Vichy French fighters were shot down by US Navy Wildcats. They also encountered Luftwaffe aircraft, but I'm not aware of any victories.

Also, flying from the USS Ranger (CV-4) in October 1943, USN Wildcats intercepted and shot down a Ju88 and a He115 during support of a British operation near Bodo, Norway.

And the only opportunity for an encounter between the USN Hellcat and the Luftwaffe that I'm aware of, would have been during the invasion of southern France in August 1944. However, the Hellcat conducted ground attack missions and didn't get a chance to tangle with any enemy aircraft.

It doesn't look like there was much action between the US Navy and Luftwaffe fighters in the ETO or MTO.


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## otftch (Oct 30, 2009)

JU-88 was shot down by a Martlet on Dec 25,1940 over Scapa Flow. I'm tryimg to find pilot data.
Ed


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## Micdrow (Oct 30, 2009)

A long time ago I was researching this question when I found some claims on kills by german fighters on the F4U corsairs on Tony Woods web site below. I had asked the question also and the response I got was they where British Corsairs that had gotten shot down. Other then that, It was all I found out. I do know that at least on British carrior was hit by bombs in the Med. Its possible that some of the fighters where shot down during this raid by escorting fighters.

http://www.lesbutler.ip3.co.uk/tony/tonywood.htm


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## Glider (Oct 30, 2009)

I am confident that the British didn't use Corsairs in the Med so can only put this down to poor identification. Wldcats were used in the med and a small number of Buffalo's were on Crete but neither of these look anythng like a Corsair.


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## Micdrow (Oct 30, 2009)

Glider said:


> I am confident that the British didn't use Corsairs in the Med so can only put this down to poor identification. Wldcats were used in the med and a small number of Buffalo's were on Crete but neither of these look anythng like a Corsair.



Im not so sure, if I remember right the dates where toward the end of 1944. I could see a wildcat and a buffalo poor dentifictation between the two but a corsair with its bent wings looks totally different, When I get home I will see if I still can find the info.


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## timshatz (Oct 30, 2009)

Butters said:


> It was a P-38 that made the first Luftwaffe kill in WWII. The mission was flown from Iceland, and IIRC, a P-39 or P-40 also played a role in the downing of the FW200.
> 
> Does anyone know if USN Wildcats were ever based in Iceland?
> 
> JL



So I don't remember correctly

Go figure. Age creeping in.


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## Capt. Vick (Oct 30, 2009)

The invasion of southern France in '44 saw at least one Hellcat shooting down a He 111.


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 30, 2009)

I believe British Corsairs were used to escort bombers on the raids on the Tirpitz so it was used in the ETO. However, I do not recall them every encountering the Germans.


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## Micdrow (Oct 30, 2009)

Ok guys I found what I was looking for, I was wrong it wasnt the corsair but the hellcat at tony woods sight but was right on the year.

JaFü Norwegen/Lfl. 5:
08.05.44	Uffz. Hallstick	10./JG 5	Hellcat	£ CO-3: 200 m.	08.25	Film	C. 2027/I	Anerk: Nr.6
08.05.44	Uffz. Hallstick	10./JG 5	Hellcat	£ CO-3: 200 m.	08.26	Film	C. 2027/I	Anerk: Nr.7 
08.05.44	Ltn. Prenzler	10./JG 5	Hellcat	£ CO-3: 50 m.	08.25	Film	C. 2027/I	Anerk: Nr.5


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 30, 2009)

Had no idea, great info!


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## Crimea_River (Oct 30, 2009)

My instruciton sheet for Eduard's Hellcat MkI s/n JV132 states:

"With this aircraft on [May8, 19944] during Operation 'Hoops', Lt Blythe Ritchie of No 800 Sqn [FAA flying from HMS Emperor], gained a kill over an FW 190A from JG 5...Six days later, during Operation 'Potluck A', Ritchie gained another aerial victory flying JV132. He attacked a formation of He 115 floatplanes, and got an individual kill, and one more shared with Lt. Stan Ohrr."


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## GrauGeist (Oct 30, 2009)

Out of curiousity, was airgodiva asking about US Navy aircraft flown by American aviators, or American naval aircraft used by Allied nations?


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## JoeB (Oct 30, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> During Operation Torch (November 1942), 15 Vichy French fighters were shot down by US Navy Wildcats. They also encountered Luftwaffe aircraft, but I'm not aware of any victories.
> 
> Also, flying from the USS Ranger (CV-4) in October 1943, USN Wildcats intercepted and shot down a Ju88 and a He115 during support of a British operation near Bodo, Norway.
> 
> ...


I agree mainly. The USN a/c in Torch downed around that many Vichy a/c total, most of which were fighters; anyway the total is not entirely clear from French accounts, so not to quibble. They did not encounter any Luftwaffe a/c. They thought they did, unfortunately the lone fighter they downed id'ed as Bf-109 was a recon Spitfire from Gibraltar, and an un-id'ed twin they downed was a British Hudson. Although aviators in question were relatively inexperienced neither they nor anyone on Ranger had been briefed that British a/c might be operating in the area, silly costly coordination mistake.

I agree on the two victories of VF-4 off Norway, both confirmed in German records, but that was a strike by Ranger itself which was quite successful sinking German ships, in area where German fighters were not permanently based, and the Germans were surprised so none were deployed to the area in time.

USN F6F's in invasion of Southern France claimed 8 Luftwaffe a/c, 3 He-111's, 3 Ju-52's, a Ju-88 and a Do217; at least some of which are reflected in LW records which are incomplete. They sighted German fighters once in the distance but the Germans declined combat.

There was one case of a CVE F4F/FM sighting a German recon plane in the whole of CVE ops in Atlantic, couldn't catch it.

That's it for USN fighters v Luftwaffe. USN PBY's and PB4Y's flying from UK on ASW missions in Bay of Biscay claimed 4 Ju-88C long range fighters, a Do-217 and a He-177, mainly confirmed in German records, and suffered losses to Ju-88C's.

German fighters also engaged USN cruiser float planes in the invasions of Sicily and Salerno. At Sicily at least 4 SOC's were downed by enemy fighters, but as only one LW claim is known, some may have been by Italian units.

Joe


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