# Spitfires Found!



## GavC (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi all, new to this forum.
I'm currently working on something that was dealtwith on Warbirds back in 2001 but can't seem to find any closure.
Its reference a rumour that up to 12 Spitfire Mk XIV's were buried in their delivery crates at Mingaladon Airfield in what is now Burma.
Is this still an alive rumour???
Were they Mk XIV or XII Spits??
Any help would be appreciated as the links back in 2001 seem to be broken now
Cheers


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## ccheese (Jun 10, 2008)

Can't help you in your quest, GavC, but I do welcome you to the forrum...

Charles


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## A4K (Jun 11, 2008)

I'd say they would have been FR. or LF.XIV's, myself, as to my knowledge the Mk. XII wasn't built in quantity, rather a development aircraft to test the griffon engines.

Welcome along, too!


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## Wayne Little (Jun 11, 2008)

G'day GavC, welcome!


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## HRM OKeefe (Jun 11, 2008)

(May be duplicate message , this system is unfamiliar to my slowing mental capabilities) 

Have friend who goes to Myanmar often from Thailand, will ask him to check on the story, but many UK collectors have scoured the world for Spitfires, Mr. Arnold comes to mind, hook up with the Warbird movement in the UK and ask around. 

A friend of mine went to Honduras with a $100,000 check to buy 5 F4U Corsairs back in the 70s', Howard Pardue of Texas showed up with cash and got the planes, saw Pardue sleeping in his car just before perfoming at the Brownsville TX airshow last summer! 

I'm researching a burried plane story my father told me about NW Puerto Rico, been working on it for 8 years, think we have found the actual site, story confirmed by many down in PR, Dad never lied, I just didnt always believe him! 

[email protected]


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## Wurger (Jun 11, 2008)

Welcome to the forum.Greetings from Poland.


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## sewell01 (Aug 21, 2011)

GavC said:


> Hi all, new to this forum.
> I'm currently working on something that was dealtwith on Warbirds back in 2001 but can't seem to find any closure.
> Its reference a rumour that up to 12 Spitfire Mk XIV's were buried in their delivery crates at Mingaladon Airfield in what is now Burma.
> Is this still an alive rumour???
> ...



I have a friend who served with 155 dquadron, I'll ask him if he knows anything !!!


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## pheobesmove (Apr 13, 2012)

I just heard on my local bbc 10 o clock news that david cameron has managed to achieve the release of 20 spitfires which have been hidden underground in burma since the 50's! can't find it on the net yet, but the news reader defo said it! 
I watch the south east version.


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## fubar57 (Apr 13, 2012)

Welcome to the site GavC. Found this on the BBC website







Geo


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## Wayne Little (Apr 14, 2012)

Well....maybe something postive may happen in the future...


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## stona (Apr 14, 2012)

Something positive has indeed happened.

Spitfires buried in Burma during war to be returned to UK - Telegraph

Now they just need to find the dozens supposedly buried all over Australia 

It is good news that one of these stashes has turned out to be fact rather than fantasy.

Cheers
Steve


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## razor1uk (Apr 14, 2012)

Those are going to be some expensive kits to recover, restore possibly rebuild - museum pieces except for any 'survived' engines largely going for the spares repair of flightworth Merlins/Griffons...

I think this also sends a good initial message of some increased co-operation with the Myanmar gov' can foster better contacts than just those from the us in UK/West with Castrol, the Gurkas, the long supporting of Yang San Sui Chi's (spelling?).


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## fubar57 (Apr 14, 2012)

The Telegraph article Stona linked to says they were Mk.ll's buried in July '45. Not sure that would correct but restoration of 20 Mk.anything Spitfires would be fantastic.

Geo


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## Crimea_River (Apr 14, 2012)

Interesting stuff, and welcome GavC.


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## evangilder (Apr 14, 2012)

That is ironic timing as I am reading a book about the Flying Tigers right now and Mingaladon is one of the fields mentioned. It's quite an interesting book and really lays open some myths that have been perpetuated about the AVG.


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## Airframes (Apr 14, 2012)

Good news - if Mr C doesn't **** it up.
Good chance, at that time of the war, they will be either MkVIIIs or MkXIVs, (unless the earlier equipment, MkVc Trop). 
If crated, they could be in relatively good condition, possibly restorable to airworthy condition and, the engines, if crated separately, could well have been inhibited, therefore in good condition also.
Looking forward to further developments, meanwhile I have already saved around 25 pence towards the £2.5 million or so needed to buy one .....


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## Gnomey (Apr 14, 2012)

Good news! Be great to see more on display/flying.


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## Wayne Little (Apr 15, 2012)

great News!


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## Torch (Apr 15, 2012)

The new Battle of Burma: Find 20 buried Spitfires and make them fly | Mail Online


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Apr 15, 2012)

VERY COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Lucky13 (Apr 15, 2012)

How sweet!


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## Readie (Apr 15, 2012)

That is fantastic news,
More of England's guardian angels to fly....we may still need them one day.
John


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## gumbyk (Apr 15, 2012)

Airframes,
Part of the price of a Spitfire is the rarity, right?
so, now that they aren't as rare as was once thought, the price must come down, right?

so you may only need 2 million!


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## Airframes (Apr 15, 2012)

Wow! That's a relief! Now it'll only take me 120 years to save up, instead of 150 - great stuff !


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## ccheese (Apr 15, 2012)

I just hope this is not another deal like the Spits that were "buried in Australia", and never materialized. Wonder how many pounds sterling this will cost the British government ?

Charles


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## Njaco (Apr 15, 2012)

[email protected]! Beats "Glacier Girl" and her find!


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## javlin (Apr 15, 2012)

ccheese said:


> I just hope this is not another deal like the Spits that were "buried in Australia", and never materialized. Wonder how many pounds sterling this will cost the British government ?
> 
> Charles



I have not heard the story over in Aussie Charles but I do recall from an article a couple years back about a team looking for these crates.So we may be able to surmise that the fruits of thier labor is about to prevail .Now all we have to wonder will all the pieces be there?One would think but war times make for strange decisions at times.


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## ccheese (Apr 16, 2012)

Airframes said:


> Good news - if Mr C doesn't **** it up.
> .....



What makes you think I would muck it up ? Hell's bell's, I'm all for getting any warbird back in the air !

Charles


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## beaupower32 (Apr 16, 2012)

Spitfires, yes Spitfires, as in more than one, actually 12 to 20 have been found in Burma. They are still in the crates, and are hoped to be well preserved. Time will tell when they finally open them up. 

British farmer’s quest to find lost Spitfires in Burma - Telegraph

Spitfires buried in Burma during war to be returned to UK - Telegraph


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## Airframes (Apr 16, 2012)

Not you Charles my friend ! Our so-called leader, Cameron, the p****** !


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## Readie (Apr 16, 2012)

Excellent news.
England's guardian angels to fly again.
John


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## Capt. Vick (Apr 16, 2012)

Let us hope this is true


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## herman1rg (Apr 16, 2012)

The chap is on The One Show BBC1 right now


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## gumbyk (Apr 16, 2012)

I read that part of the problem now may be that there are restrictions on moving military material in and out of Burma/Myanmar. The only other place I've heard of having that problem with Spitfires is the States!


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## ccheese (Apr 16, 2012)

Airframes said:


> Not you Charles my friend ! Our so-called leader, Cameron, the p****** !



Oh.....

Charles


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## oldcrowcv63 (Apr 16, 2012)

Don''t know if this news is out yet: 

Lost Squadron Of _*Pickled Spitfires*_ *Found (sounds more like Kimchi)*

_*Some one please give John Read a sedative or a couple of beers (preferably Spitfire ) before he reads this:*_ 

Aviation historians and warbird enthusiasts are drooling at the discovery of at least 12 and maybe as many 20 perfectly preserved brand-new Spitfire Mark 14s buried in Myanmar, which was formerly Burma. Thanks to the tenacity (and apparently considerable diplomatic skills) of British farmer David Cundall, the lost squadron of pristine fighters was found where they were buried by U.S. troops in 1945 when it became clear they wouldn't be needed in the final days of the Second World War. At least a dozen of the aircraft, one of the latest variants with their 2,035-horsepower Roll Royce Griffon engines replacing the 1,200-1,500-horsepower Merlins in earlier models, were buried without ever being removed from their original packing crates. It's possible another eight were also buried after the war ended. After spending 15 years and $200,000 of his own money, Cundall was rewarded with visual proof of the magnitude of his discovery. "We sent a borehole down and used a camera to look at the crates," he told the Telegraph. "They seemed to be in good condition."

The aircraft were declared surplus when they arrived in Burma because the Japanese were in retreat by then and carrier-based Seafires were getting all the action. They were ordered buried in their original crates, waxed, swaddled in grease paper and their joints tarred against the elements. Cundall found some of the soldiers who buried the planes by placing ads in magazines and was able to narrow down the search before using ground-penetrating radar to confirm the burial site. The next obstacles to recovery are political. Myanmar's former military junta was under a variety of sanctions, among them an international convention that prevented the transfer of military goods to and from the country. Recent political reforms have led to the lifting of that ban effective April 23. Cundall will also need the permission of the new Myanmar government to unearth the treasure. He helped his own cause by making numerous trips to the country and earning the trust of government officials. British Prime Minister David Cameron is expected to seal the deal with Myanmar President Thein Sein during a visit.

AVweb Insider Blog: A Dozen Spitfires in Factory Crates? A Dream Find

The weekend's news brought a report that a British farmer named David Cundall has discovered a squadron of Mark XIV Supermarine Spitfires buried in their factory crates as surplus at the end of World War II. If the story has legs, it will be the historical aircraft find of the century. On the AVweb Insider blog, Paul Bertorelli asks the question on everyone's mind: "Whattya figure those things will be worth?"

*
Nevermind... Torch posted this yesterday:

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/off-topic-misc/spitfires-found-32460.html 

It may be too late for Readie unless someone took appropriate precautions. *


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## Siegfried (Apr 16, 2012)

Everyone knows that the Spitfire IX's Rolls Royce Merlin 66 produced 1700hp on 100/130 aviation fuel.


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## vikingBerserker (Apr 16, 2012)

That's fricken awesome!


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## Crimea_River (Apr 16, 2012)

Correcting accuracy mistakes in news releases can drive you crazy. An earlier article said these were Spitfire Mk II's for heaven's sake.


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## A4K (Apr 17, 2012)

Newsapapers always screw up the details.


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## A4K (Apr 17, 2012)

Do hope this pans out! 
Remember an article in a Flypast magazine from 1986 (I think) about Lancasters in crated parts being found buried at an aerodrome, using ground radar. I wrote to the magazine in 1999 to ask about the radar used, and the editor replied saying after the big 'news', the person involved went quiet and never replied to their letters asking for an update.


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## woljags (Apr 17, 2012)

this is true,they are hoping to have permission to start recovery in the next 2 months before the next monsoon season as on the BBC last night


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## Njaco (Apr 17, 2012)

Guys, I'm gonna move this as we're getting numerous threads about it.


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## A4K (Apr 17, 2012)

What? My multiple personalities have to share the same thread????


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## Hotntot (Apr 28, 2012)

The latest on how things are going:-

It’s Spitfires at dawn in Burma - Telegraph

Hey Airframes - you were right about the variant(s) burried in their crates (you're good). The price could be coming down too. There's a chance yet perhaps...flying in heaven permitted, as it'll still take another lifetime to collect all the spare coppers.


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## Airframes (Apr 29, 2012)

Hmm. No doubt there'll be a lot more of this sort of wrangling before anything positive happens, and again after it happens.


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## tomo pauk (Apr 29, 2012)

Great thing is the, as it seems at this moment, Spitfires are 'alive'. Hopefully, we'll see as much as possible of them in a pristine shape.


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## Airframes (Apr 29, 2012)

When the crates are first opened, revealing the airframes, will be a priceless moment - almost the aviation equivalent of the opening of Tutankhamun's tomb.


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## A4K (May 2, 2012)

Hope they sort this out in any case.


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## Muskrat (May 17, 2012)

Only heard about this today - Pant wettingly exciting - hope it all pans out - pic's of the crates being opened will be Awesome.

Mk XIV's - Bloody Brilliant.


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## Milosh (May 17, 2012)

How about 100 more Spitfires.

April 29, 2012
Dogfight Brewing Over Burmese Spitfires 

By Russ Niles, Editor-in-Chief

British farmer and aviation history buff David Cundall now says there are 124 new Spitfires buried in Myanmar (formerly Burma) and he knows where 60 of them are. As we reported two weeks ago, Cundall stunned the aviation world with news that he had found at least 20 crated, brand-new Spitfires wrapped in protective paper and tar to preserve them. Whether he'll be able to capitalize on his stunning discovery is in question, however, as treasure hunters from all over the world race against each other and the impending monsoon season to dig the pickled aircraft up. In an email exchange a week ago, Cundall told AVweb he was having problems with financial backers who now may be rivals for the treasure trove. Cundall has not returned subsequent email and phone messages from AVweb. He did, however, claim in an interview with the Independent that a British businessman is trying to hijack the project with the help of the country's prime minister.

Cundall told AVweb he had originally struck a deal with an American backer to fund the recovery of the aircraft but it fell through. He was then approached by Steve Boultbee Brooks, a land developer and aviation buff who owns a two-seat Spitfire. He alleges Boultbee Brooks, who accompanied Prime Minister David Cameron on a trade and political mission to Myanmar two weeks ago, used his attendance on the trip to engineer discussions between Cameron and Myanmar President Thein Sein on repatriation of the aircraft. Brooks does indeed appear to be assuming a lead role in digging up the planes.

In an email to AVweb, Brooks' public relations consultant Elizabeth Tagge declined an interview but said there will soon be public access to news on the effort. "The team is entirely focused on the next stage of the project at this point and won't be giving interviews just yet," Tagge said. "However, there should be a Facebook page up soon, which we'll update when there is news to help keep everyone aware of progress."

Meanwhile, Brooks himself told the Independent that he hopes Cundall will be "on board" with the recovery effort. Cundall says he'll be involved all right, as the holder of all the important cards in a high-stakes game that involves cutting the Myanmar government in for 40 percent of the proceeds from the sale of the aircraft. "We were issued a permit to dig, which is still a valid and exclusive agreement," he said. "The President of Burma wants to do business with me." Cundall said he has a buyer who will take all the aircraft at about $1.5 million each. Boultbee Brooks said it would be a shame for the aircraft to end up anywhere but Britain and he noted there are other groups in the U.S., Israel and Australia hoping to claim the aircraft. "What a terrible day this is when the prime minister has gone out and got a British team, we put a British team together, and then we squabble so much that we allow other nations to walk in and take the Spitfires from under our noses," he said.


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## Tankworks (May 17, 2012)

They were military property, are they not still property of whoever buried them, Britain or the present government of the country? Legal wranglings to follow, film at eleven!


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## Njaco (May 18, 2012)

Airframes said:


> When the crates are first opened, revealing the airframes, will be a priceless moment - almost the aviation equivalent of the opening of Tutankhamun's tomb.



Just don't let Geraldo Rivera near them!


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## vikingBerserker (May 18, 2012)




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## Airframes (May 18, 2012)

Who?!


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## T Bolt (May 18, 2012)

Terry, Geraldo Rivera was a TV journalist who is best known for doing a super hyped live TV special to dig up a supposed vault belonging the notorious Chicago gangster All Capone. He found zip.

From Wikipedia: 

_Geraldo Rivera had been fired in 1985 after criticizing ABC for canceling a report on an alleged relationship between John F. Kennedy and Marilyn Monroe. He then hosted the special The Mystery of Al Capone's Vaults which was broadcast live on April 21, 1986. The two hour special (including commercials) was greatly hyped as potentially revealing great riches or bodies on live television. This included the presence of a medical examiner should bodies be found and agents from the Internal Revenue Service to collect any of Capone's money that might be discovered. When the vault was finally opened the only things found inside were dirt and several empty bottles including one Rivera claimed was for moonshine bathtub gin. Despite the ending, the special became the most-watched syndicated television special with an estimated audience of 30 million. "Seems like we struck out," Rivera was quoted as saying after the show[1] , though he later wrote of the event in his 1991 autobiography Exposing Myself that "My career was not over, I knew, but had just begun. And all because of a silly, high-concept stunt that failed to deliver on its titillating promise." The term "Al Capone's vault" has become slang for a heavily hyped event with disappointing results_


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## Airframes (May 18, 2012)

Ah! Thanks Glenn - hadn't heard of him, or the show. Of course, I know who Al Capone was - one of his relatives is now running our country!!


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## fastmongrel (May 19, 2012)

Airframes said:


> Ah! Thanks Glenn - hadn't heard of him, or the show. Of course, I know who Al Capone was - one of his relatives is now running our country!!



I didnt know Rupert Murdoch was related to Al Capone. I suppose it explains a lot.


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## war eagle (May 19, 2012)

I have read that the exact location of at least some of the crates has been recently established using ground penetrating imaging equipment they could see a large collection of what looked like fusalages tightly packed together and crating material recovered by boring machines.Apparently they cannot begin attempting a recovery until the monsoon season has passed ITS A VERY EXCITING DISCOVERY !.I will be keeping a close eye on further developements.


WE DESIGNED EM ! WE BUILT EM ! WE AND THE BURMESE AUTHORITIES BURIED THEM ! SO HANDS OFF GOLD DIGGERS THEY,RE OUR PROPERTY !


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## Njaco (May 22, 2012)

THX T-Bolt!


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## bobbysocks (May 22, 2012)

he should get first dibs...or at least a percentage of them just for finding them IF he doesnt get them all.


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## A4K (May 25, 2012)

Interesting that Al Capone story... thanks Chris and Glenn!


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## Muskrat (Aug 17, 2012)

Any Update on this yet?


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## v2 (Sep 9, 2012)

Spitfires buried in Burma during war to be returned to UK: Spitfires buried in Burma during war to be returned to UK - Telegraph


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## A4K (Sep 9, 2012)

That's great news! Dzieki Dominik!


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## Wayne Little (Sep 9, 2012)

Excellent!


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## Crimea_River (Sep 9, 2012)

Great! Thanks for the update.


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## bobbysocks (Sep 9, 2012)

thats great news!


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## T Bolt (Sep 9, 2012)

Great to see they'll be coming home. Anyone know what Mk. they are?


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 9, 2012)

That's awesome!


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## A4K (Sep 10, 2012)

I think someone here said they were Mk.XIVs Glenn, don't know if LF's or high backs though.


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## fastmongrel (Sep 10, 2012)

Dont want to shoot anyones plane down but have you seen the date on that article 14th April, there has been no new news since. Googling some of the characters involved in this saga and all I will say is I would count my fingers after shaking hands with them and I definitely wouldnt buy a used Spitfire off them.


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## ccheese (Sep 24, 2012)

If anyone is interested, David Cundall has a Facebook page. Search for David Cundall's Spitfrire Recovery from Burma.

According to the latest, the count is up to 36. Look here: http://www.birminghampost.net/life-...le-to-save-mark-x1v-spitfires-65233-31629022/

Charles


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## Melonfish (Sep 25, 2012)

ccheese said:


> If anyone is interested, David Cundall has a Facebook page. Search for David Cundall's Spitfrire Recovery from Burma.
> 
> According to the latest, the count is up to 36. Look here: http://www.birminghampost.net/life-...le-to-save-mark-x1v-spitfires-65233-31629022/
> 
> Charles



Oh my giddy aunt!
36 mk XIV's!


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 25, 2012)

Holy <bleep>!


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## bobbysocks (Sep 25, 2012)

i read somewhere there is "supposedly" over a hundred buried in burma....at other locations as well as this.


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## Capt. Vick (Oct 17, 2012)

The latest on Yahoo

Spitfire fighter planes to be dug up in Myanmar - Yahoo! News


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## Crimea_River (Oct 17, 2012)

Excavation imminent. Great news! Thanks for the update.


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## CobberKane (Oct 18, 2012)

Crimea_River said:


> Interesting stuff, and welcome GavC.


 
This is a very well timmed thread. A couple of hours ago I was listening to the Australian Broadcasting Corperation news and there was a piece on this - The Burmese Government and the British Guy who located the spitfires have come to arrangement and they hope to start digging them up within the month. 
The Spits were buried in their crates and are expected to be in good condition. There may be up to sixty of them. I think they are XIVs. Absolutely awesome!


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## prem895 (Oct 18, 2012)

As many as 140 Second World War Spitfire fighter planes — three to four times the number of airworthy models known to exist — are believed to be buried in near-pristine condition in Burma, also known as Myanmar.

A British-Burma partnership says it will begin digging them up by the end of the month.

The go-ahead for excavation came earlier this week when the Burmese government signed an agreement with British aviation enthusiast David J. Cundall and his local partner. Cundall, a farmer and businessman, earlier this year announced he had located 20 of the planes, best known for helping the Royal Air Force win mastery of the skies during the Battle of Britain.

On Thursday, however, a retired Burmese geology professor who has assisted in the recovery operation since 1999 said there are about 140 Spitfires buried in various places around the Southeast Asian country, which until 1948 was a British colony. He did not explain the discrepancy in estimates.

Soe Thein said the British brought crates of Spitfires to Burma in the closing stages of the war, but never used them when the Japanese gave up the fight in 1945. The single-seat version of the fighter plane was 9.14 metres long with an 11.3-metre wingspan.

The U.S. Army was in charge of burying the planes after British forces decided to dispose of them that way, he said, adding Cundall interviewed at least 1,000 war veterans, mostly American, to gather information about the aircraft's fate.

He said a ground search was started in 1999 using magnetometers and ground radar, but faced difficulties. Only in recent years did technology become advanced enough to be more certain of the finds, he said.

Each plane was kept in a crate about 12.2 metres long, 3.4 metres high and 2.7 metres wide, said Soe Thein.

The plans under a two-year contract are to recover 60 planes in the first phase: 36 planes in Mingaladon, near the former capital Rangoon's current air base and international airport; 18 in Myitkyina in Kachin state in the north; and six in Meikthila in central Burma. Others are to be recovered in a second phase.

The Burmese government will get one plane for display at a museum, as well as half of the remaining total. DJC, a private company headed by Cundall, will get 30 per cent of the total and the partner company, Shwe Taung Paw, 20 per cent.

Airworthy Spitfire sold for $2.7M
British Prime Minister David Cameron eased the way to an agreement when he visited President Thein Sein in April.

Cundall has said his quest to find the planes involved 12 trips to Burma and cost more than £130,000 ($205,000 Cdn), not including the planned excavation expenses.

Spitfires in working shape are rare and popular with collectors. In 2009, a restored but airworthy Spitfire was sold by British auction house Bonhams for £1,739,500 ($2.7 million Cdn).

The excavation agreement was signed Tuesday by Civil Aviation Director-General Tin Naing Tun, Cundall on behalf of DJC, and Htoo Htoo Zaw, managing director of Shwe Taung Paw.

"It took 16 years for Mr. David Cundall to locate the planes buried in crates. We estimate that there are at least 60 Spitfires buried and they are in good condition," Htoo Htoo Zaw said Wednesday. "We want to let people see these historic fighters, and the excavation of these fighter planes will further strengthen relations between Myanmar and Britain."

The British Embassy on Wednesday described the agreement as a chance to work with Burma’s new reformist government to restore and display the planes.

"We hope that many of them will be gracing the skies of Britain and, as discussed, some will be displayed here in Burma," said an embassy spokesman, who spoke anonymously because he was not directly involved in the excavation agreement.

Myanmar from 1962 until last year was under the rule of the military, which changed the country's name from Burma in 1989. Thein Sein's reformist government has turned away from the repression of the military government and patched up relations with Western nations that had previously shunned it.

The state-owned Myanma Ahlin daily on Wednesday cited Transport Minister Nyan Tun Aung as saying the Spitfire agreement amounts to the British government's recognition of the democratic reforms.

© The Associated Press, 2012


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## herman1rg (Oct 18, 2012)

A good step forwards


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## proton45 (Oct 19, 2012)

I really hope that these aeroplanes are in, as good condition, as people seem to think they are...I wonder if, "someone", has dug up a, "test fighter", to ensure quality? (On the Q.T. of course)


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 19, 2012)

I wonder if the crates would have held up this long. A moist ground would play havoc with them and their contents.


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## prem895 (Oct 19, 2012)

I hear the crates were covered in tar for preservation


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## fastmongrel (Oct 20, 2012)

I really hope these crates do exist and that they contain Spits but I very much doubt after all these years that they are going to be in good condition. They were being dumped why would the RAF bother doing anything to ensure they were preserved, I can easily imagine a bulldozer digging a scrape hole pushing the crates in and covering the crates up. A quick and dirty job and the remains are probably a jumble of smashed crates and aluminium scrap. Plus if the locals knew they were there then it would have been a free aluminium mine. 

I really hope that something gets to fly as a result of this but the fevered imaginations of crates being dug up Spits pulled out the wings put on and a quick polish before they fly is not going to happen I reckon.


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## Airframes (Oct 20, 2012)

I too hope that at least some are usable. Earlier reports suggest that the airframes were 'wrapped' in oiled paper or oilskin, inside the crates, and apparently this has been verified during an exploratory search. 
Let's hope the reports are right. 
Even if the worst case scenario is discovered, there should at least be enough to preserve some airframes for static display, if nothing else.
Now, how many can I get if I win the Big One .......


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## Geedee (Oct 20, 2012)

Airframes said:


> Now, how many can I get if I win the Big One .......



Mate, the rate at which these Spitties are reproducing underground in their crates...started of as 14, then 60 ,then 140, then 160 + !!!!, I reckon they'll be giving them away with petrol coupons before much longer


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## fastmongrel (Oct 20, 2012)

Geedee said:


> Mate, the rate at which these Spitties are reproducing underground in their crates...started of as 14, then 60 ,then 140, then 160 + !!!!, I reckon they'll be giving them away with petrol coupons before much longer





I will clear a space in my shed ready then, I reckon I could squeeze 2 in if I get rid of all that useless stuff like the washing machine the deep freeze the garden furniture and the car.


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## Geedee (Oct 20, 2012)

fastmongrel said:


> I will clear a space in my shed ready then, I reckon I could squeeze 2 in if I get rid of all that useless stuff like the washing machine the deep freeze the garden furniture and the car.



Now you're talking...proper man-cave contents. We'll overlook the washing machine and stuff this time


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## Airframes (Oct 20, 2012)

Yeah, I mean, what would you rather have - a washing machine, or a Spit XIV? What a silly question .......
And just think, if, say, 100 Spitfires suddenly come on the market, then the price must fall.... now, will my landlord object if I knock a hole in the back wall, move a few interior walls, widen the street and .....


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## yulzari (Oct 20, 2012)

If I understand it correctly (?) the Japanese surrender had left substantial Japanese forces still at large. The airfield building engineers had been kindly supplied by the Americans, hence they did the burying. The idea was to bury these newly delivered Spitfires in a condition to allow them to be retrieved and used should the Japanese decide to continue fighting in Malaya and the Burmese border. Given that a Spitfire ditched in wartime off Calais has now been restored, these should be in much better shape.

The Burmese must be a bit annoyed that they were sold Spitfires after the war and not told that they had plenty of their own in boxes underground. Maybe that is why the paper trail is a little lacking?

Should this thread not be in the 'Spitfires Found!' thread?

P.S. I think my barn is big enough.............


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## stona (Oct 20, 2012)

I'm still sceptical. I'll happily be proven wrong but this really is a case where seeing will be believing.

Steve


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## tyrodtom (Oct 20, 2012)

There's been so much build up on this, I keep thinking about Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's safe.


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## stona (Oct 20, 2012)

tyrodtom said:


> There's been so much build up on this, I keep thinking about Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's safe.



Exactly

Steve


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## fastmongrel (Oct 20, 2012)

tyrodtom said:


> There's been so much build up on this, I keep thinking about Geraldo Rivera and Al Capone's safe.



Some of the people involved in this saga make Al Capone seem an honest trustworthy chap.


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## proton45 (Oct 20, 2012)

LOL...a few of these articles make it sound as if, a screwdriver and a can of Aerofuel, is all that is required, to get one of these babys in the air.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 20, 2012)

Seeing is believing as has already been said, I do hope that it's all true though...hmmmm....should be able to take off and land on the main street, should be at work in less than.....heck, will take longer to get the landing gear up! 

Now, how about some Dora's TA's, Horten 229's etc., etc.. 8)


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## stona (Oct 20, 2012)

fastmongrel said:


> Some of the people involved in this saga make Al Capone seem an honest trustworthy chap.



He wasn't ?


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## Lucky13 (Oct 20, 2012)

So, he _wasn't_ the Robin Hood of the '20's and '30's??


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## prem895 (Oct 20, 2012)

I have Avro Arrow RL 205,a Lancaster MKIII and a WW1 Gotha IV all buried in my backyard. Oh I almost forgot,The old man living in my basement is Adolf Hitler


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## bobbysocks (Oct 21, 2012)

supposedly they drilled down and ran a scope into one of the crates to be able to assess their condition. what they found was a pleasant surprise. at least that is what i read. we will see what the fact of the matter is here in a couple of weeks.


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## prem895 (Oct 21, 2012)

This could just be one of(what I am sure) the many such finds around the globe. Waiting to see aviations King Tut


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Oct 22, 2012)

Just have to wait and see I suppose.


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## Capt. Vick (Oct 22, 2012)

One thing about this all has me confused. I read somewhere that they buried them to avoid having them falling into the hands of the Japanese. But didn't they bury them in 1944 or 45? Were things that touch and go this late in the war for that to be a real concern?


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## wuzak (Oct 22, 2012)

Capt. Vick said:


> One thing about this all has me confused. I read somewhere that they buried them to avoid having them falling into the hands of the Japanese. But didn't they bury them in 1944 or 45? Were things that touch and go this late in the war for that to be a real concern?



I believe that is reporters getting their facts mixed up.

The reason that they were buried is that they were surplus to requirements at the end of the war.

Other aircraft were dumped off carriers, or bulldozed into dumps. But these had just been delivered, and were not yet unpacked, so were buried in their crates..

Well, that's how I understand it.


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## Capt. Vick (Oct 22, 2012)

Ah, makes sense now... Thanks!


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## Wayne Little (Oct 22, 2012)

stona said:


> I'm still sceptical. I'll happily be proven wrong but this really is a case where seeing will be believing.
> 
> Steve



fell a bit the same way Steve....


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## stona (Oct 22, 2012)

wuzak said:


> I believe that is reporters getting their facts mixed up.



Good Lord! Surely not. 

Editorial rigour is sadly lacking these days. It surprises me not one jot that someone failed to put the dates into a correct WW2 context. Even more worryingly I was recently asked "Who's Jimi Hendrix?" 

Aren't there supposed to be a load of Spitfires and/or Merlins buried down a mine in Australia.
I haven't heard anything of that recently but it is one of those stories that re-appears every ten years or so.

Steve


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## wuzak (Oct 22, 2012)

stona said:


> Good Lord! Surely not.
> 
> Editorial rigour is sadly lacking these days. It surprises me not one jot that someone failed to put the dates into a correct WW2 context. Even more worryingly I was recently asked "Who's Jimi Hendrix?"



Unfortunately it isn't going to get any better, thanks, in part, to the internet.




stona said:


> Aren't there supposed to be a load of Spitfires and/or Merlins buried down a mine in Australia.
> I haven't heard anything of that recently but it is one of those stories that re-appears every ten years or so.



Yep, there are stories and rumours.

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian


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## evangilder (Oct 22, 2012)

Geedee said:


> Mate, the rate at which these Spitties are reproducing underground in their crates...started of as 14, then 60 ,then 140, then 160 + !!!!, I reckon they'll be giving them away with petrol coupons before much longer



Well, heck, send a couple across the pond to us, then!  Hmm, let's see, it started with about a dozen or so underground, now there are 10x more. Are we sure these aren't rabbits?

As much as I'd like to believe they could have an air wing of Spitfires, until I see boxes of them arriving at ports in England, I am not holding my breath. Think about it, if there really are that many down there, government officials in Myanmar have got to be thinking "wait a minute, those are on OUR land". There has to be a lot of diplomatic wrangling going on. Because after almost 70 years underground, there are likely some antiquities laws to look at.


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## Airframes (Oct 22, 2012)

Well Erich, it's _supposed _to have all been agreed, personally, between our Prime Minister and the Burmese Government. But, we're talking about Cameron here - so who knows what the outcome might be !!!


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## evangilder (Oct 22, 2012)

It is all agreed upon until bankers and lawyers get their hands in things.


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## R Pope (Oct 22, 2012)

So, is there any solid evidence, or is it all just cloud cuckoo BS?


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## wuzak (Oct 22, 2012)

R Pope said:


> So, is there any solid evidence, or is it all just cloud cuckoo BS?



The claim is that they have used a remote camera system to dig down to and look inside one of the crates. So there is one, at least.

I believe that up to 60 are said to be in the dump they will start excavating shortly, but the full number is not yet confirmed, and I suppose it won't be until they are dug up.

The other 80 or so are said to be in other dumps, which have yet to be located.


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## Gixxerman (Oct 22, 2012)

Really interesting story, loving the increase in potential numbers too.

It is something of a surprise given that the planes must at one time have represented a fairly easy source of refined raw materials but it just goes to show, you never know.
It makes me wonder if there is the chance of other rare birds and/or crates of spares just got buried elsewhere - maybe a stack of stuff in Russia waiting to be unearthed discovered?


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## stona (Oct 22, 2012)

wuzak said:


> Yep, there are stories and rumours.
> 
> Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian



Backed up by some seriously flawed logic in the article 

"The number of aircraft and the persistence of the stories from disparate sources suggest it is likely that some aircraft remain"

Good stories always persist and get taller in the repeating. That doesn't make them true unfortunately.

I suppose it's all good fun.

Steve.


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## herman1rg (Nov 28, 2012)

Update here

BBC News - Search for missing Spitfires in Burma due to begin


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## herman1rg (Nov 28, 2012)

Update here

BBC News - Search for missing Spitfires in Burma due to begin


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## stona (Nov 28, 2012)

A member of the Leeds University team responsible for the ground imaging in that report was careful to point out that their machines do not have one setting for Spitfires and another for scrap metal. He at least was hedging his bets!
A lot of rubbish could be bulldozed off the runway of a wartime airfield.

I really hope that something worthwhile is found. I would just temper optimism with realism.

Cheers

Steve


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## fubar57 (Nov 28, 2012)

Would someone *PLEASE* point out a spitfire in this image for me. All I see a leany 1 and a T.







Geo


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## Readie (Nov 28, 2012)

fubar57 said:


> Would someone *PLEASE* point out a spitfire in this image for me. All I see a leany 1 and a T.
> 
> View attachment 217292
> 
> ...



You can't see the Spitfires?
I can.....
lol
John


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## stona (Nov 28, 2012)

Exactly. One of the team responsible for that survey was careful to point out on the BBC news that those red areas indicate the presence of metal,any metal,not necessarily Spitfires.

That doesn't mean that there aren't Spitfires there,but it doesn't mean that there are either.

Cheers
Steve


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## tyrodtom (Nov 28, 2012)

A lot of words like, "it is thought" and "may be" are in that article.

Where do they get their numbers from since the article seems to indicate they've never found any paper trail that these aircraft was ever sent to Burma ?

Surely 60-140 aircraft didn't get shipped somewhere without there being a multitude of paperwork. All of it can't be lost.


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## stona (Nov 28, 2012)

tyrodtom said:


> Surely 60-140 aircraft didn't get shipped somewhere without there being a multitude of paperwork. All of it can't be lost.



I think the number is down to 30 but your point is still valid.

I am very sceptical but would be delighted to be proved wrong.

Cheers

Steve


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## Readie (Nov 28, 2012)

tyrodtom said:


> Surely 60-140 aircraft didn't get shipped somewhere without there being a multitude of paperwork. All of it can't be lost.



Er, yes it could. 
Who knows what is really buried there.
My bet is an ammunition dump.
Cheers
John


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## stona (Nov 28, 2012)

I doubt the paperwork is lost,though anything is possible.
I suspect that it either never existed,which means neither do the Spitfires,or it has been misplaced or misfiled. As an occasional visitor to some of our archives I can assure you that that is a distinct possibility!
Cheers
Steve


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## bobbysocks (Nov 28, 2012)

Readie said:


> Er, yes it could.
> Who knows what is really buried there.
> My bet is an *ammunition dump*.
> Cheers
> John



that will make for a very exciting moment or 2 if they go prodding around with a backhoe!!! you dont want to piss off old ordnance...it tends to get very cranky when wakened.


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## tyrodtom (Nov 28, 2012)

I can see paperwork on the receiving end getting lost, the war was over, going home was uppermost on most peoples minds. We've all heard of aircraft and vehicles just being shoved off ships after the war, and i'm sure there were a lot of bonfires from the records in far flung offices and headquarters.

But a paper trail from when they were manufactored, prepared for shipment, shipped, etc. etc. . All gone ??


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## prem895 (Nov 28, 2012)

I guess we will have to wait and see.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 28, 2012)

I'll believe this when I see it. In the mean time it stacks up with Bigfoot, the Lochness Monster and UFOs.


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## bobbysocks (Nov 28, 2012)

we ought to merge this with the other thread...


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## stona (Nov 28, 2012)

They must have been part of a contract and they must have been assigned serial numbers. Evidence?
Steve


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 28, 2012)

Hmm an old ammo dump. Why do I picture a backhoe in orbit?


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## Edgar Brooks (Nov 28, 2012)

stona said:


> They must have been part of a contract and they must have been assigned serial numbers. Evidence?
> Steve


What we don't know is if the Squadrons were just told to get rid of them, with no method specified. Years ago a pilot told me how, here in the U.K., pilots were paid to fly out over the sea (North, Irish or Atlantic I've no idea,) then take to their parachutes (near a standby boat, presumably,) and let the aircraft go.
A former erk told me how, coming back in a carrier, after the war ended, they were pushing aircraft off the round-down, as they travelled up the Med. 
If the Spitfires had never been assembled, disposing of them together with their crates, in one go, makes some sort of sense, and they would just have been "Struck Off Charge," in a report back to the Air Ministry.


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## tyrodtom (Nov 28, 2012)

I really find that first one hard to believe. Parachutes to this day have a failure rate, + parachuting out of a pilotless aircraft , + nobody likes to parachute into the water ( except maybe Navy Seals) and then into any seas around the UK, brrrr.

You'd have to pay me real well to try that, and people call me thrill junky.


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## Airframes (Nov 28, 2012)

I can believe it. Not that many years ago, the Royal Navy's Historic Flight had an undercarriage malfunction with their Sea Fury. The pilot was instructed to fly out over the sea, and abandon the aircraft. This he did, taking to his parachute, landing in the sea, and was recovered. The aircraft, of course was lost.
I agree, parachutes, of any type, can have a malfunction, but it's relatively rare with a service-issue round canopy. I've done a total of 502 descents, including freefall, and never been killed yet! (also done a water jump into the sea, and it wasn't cold - it was F*****G cold !!)
EDIT: Geo, the 'I' and the 'T' are only part of the picture. The missing left hand side has the 'SP' and the missing right hand side has the FIRE ........


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## Airframes (Nov 28, 2012)

I agree, otherwise we might end up with around 1,200 Spitfires ......


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## tyrodtom (Nov 28, 2012)

My older brother was airborne for his entire 20 years in the Army. I stayed with his family one summer at Ft. Bragg ,in 1962.

They had 2 mass jumps that summer, both times someone died, seems to me in one jump, 2 . I'm talking jumps of about and over 100 men each. 
I have no idea how many jumps he made in his career, but never any broken bones. Though he lost a tooth when he landed in a tree. He was one tough, lucky, man.
Parachuting was not as safe in the 40's as it is today.


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## gumbyk (Nov 28, 2012)

THERE'S 1200 SPITFIRES BURIED!!!!


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## tyrodtom (Nov 28, 2012)

They're multiplying in the ground.

Leave them there a few more years and there'll be enough for everybody.


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## bobbysocks (Nov 28, 2012)

damn spitfires are like rabbits!! they are going to need a bigger truck...


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU6NqwWVb5E_


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## Crimea_River (Nov 28, 2012)

fubar57 said:


> Would someone *PLEASE* point out a spitfire in this image for me. All I see a leany 1 and a T.
> 
> View attachment 217292
> 
> ...



It's the "I" and the "T" in SP*IT*FIRE. Buried Spitfire it is!


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## fubar57 (Nov 29, 2012)

Andy, Terry. I'm just hoping it's not the ending of a four letter word if the news is disappointing.

Geo


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## vinnye (Nov 29, 2012)

The BBC 6 O'clock News on Wednesday 28th Nov has just ran a story about theses Spitfires.
They showed some ground radar pictures which seemed to show some large metallic finds grouped together in rectangular pits / trenches.
They said that work was supposed to begin in January to find out if it is crated Spitfires or scrap metal.
It seems we may be fairly close to finding out one way or the other!


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## stona (Nov 29, 2012)

Edgar Brooks said:


> and they would just have been "Struck Off Charge," in a report back to the Air Ministry.



Indeed Edgar,so where are those reports. These aircraft must have a history. They must have been part of an order and they must have been assigned serials.In the absence of teleporters they must have been shipped to the Far East. Is none of this known? The researcher seems keen to publish a lot of conjecture,maybe its my scientifically trained mind but there is a distinct lack of empirical evidence.Some people are talking about dozens of aircraft here,I find it difficult to believe that there is no paper trail at all. 

Red Tape,invented by the British Civil Service and passed on to the rest of the Empire 

Cheers
Steve


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## Wayne Little (Nov 29, 2012)

January huh....not holding my breath that long! :d


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## Wayne Little (Nov 29, 2012)




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## Edgar Brooks (Nov 29, 2012)

stona said:


> Indeed Edgar,so where are those reports. These aircraft must have a history. They must have been part of an order and they must have been assigned serials.In the absence of teleporters they must have been shipped to the Far East. Is none of this known? The researcher seems keen to publish a lot of conjecture,maybe its my scientifically trained mind but there is a distinct lack of empirical evidence.Some people are talking about dozens of aircraft here,I find it difficult to believe that there is no paper trail at all.


One problem is knowing where to look; the Air Historical Branch have all of the remaining Movement Cards (I say "remaining" since some were stolen while they were held in the P.R.O. (now National Archives) in Kew. The A.H.B. have a poor reputation, when it comes to the ordinary public gaining access to do research; it's possible they have the reports, I've never seen mention of any in Kew.
The writers of "Spitfire the History" did have access to the cards (or the microfilm copies in the RAF Museum,) and, on those that I've looked at in Hendon, the information can be singularly succinct. In the book, it's common, in the Mark XIV lists, to read just ACSEA (Air Command South East Asia,) followed by a date, then "SOC," followed by another date. As an example, for TZ157, there's ACSEA 30-5-46 SOC 24-4-47, with nothing in between.
I'd like to strike a note of caution, in this; it's just been revealed that quotes, attributed to Mr. Cundall in the Daily Telegraph, are a complete fabrication, so there could well be a(nother) case of journalists not letting the truth get in the way of a good story.


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## stona (Nov 29, 2012)

I see your point Edgar,it just seems odd to me that someone claiming to have discovered the whereabouts of 30,60,100+ Spitfires,depending who you believe,would make no attempt to reconcile them with the extant records.
It's not the only odd thing in all this either.
As for your last point about journalists....why am I not surprised 

Cheers

Steve


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## Edgar Brooks (Nov 29, 2012)

I would still recommend caution, and waiting until whatever is down there is brought out and opened up. The only certain piece of information will be any serial found on the rear fuselage; some years ago, I was reading through "Spitfire the History" (it beats counting sheep, when you can't sleep,) and, in the listings of Mark XVI serials, saw one that I recognised, since it had been on 41 Squadron's strength, and photographed in 1945. The only problem was that it had been built as a low-back XIV; I'm not saying that these will be the same, but, from what I've seen, anything can (and did) happen.


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## ccheese (Nov 29, 2012)

According to the latest info I have read on the buried Spitfires, there are "suppose" to be around 60 buried. Most are in crates, and some of them are buried under what is now a housing development. According to their Facebook page ... 
http://www.facebook.com/groups/295437683870842/ 
they are going to start digging in January, and expect to know something five days later. If, and that's a big IF, they find any, they say they could be in flyable condition in three years.

BTW, I merged this thread with the 140 Spit found thread.


Charles


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## Capt. Vick (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks Charles


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## Wayne Little (Nov 30, 2012)

Done good Charles! maybe the amount of Spittys will not continue to grow as fast now...


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## tyrodtom (Nov 30, 2012)

They haven't even seen the things yet, and already someone is estimating how long it would take to get one in flying condition ???
One thing these people are experts at, creating doubts that they know what they're talking about.


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## ccheese (Nov 30, 2012)

tyrodtom said:


> They haven't even seen the things yet, and already someone is estimating how long it would take to get one in flying condition ???
> One thing these people are experts at, creating doubts that they know what they're talking about.



Tom: The people who are doing this dig are under the impression the aircraft are in almost pristine condition, and suitably crated to reduce deterioration. They were given all this info by the people who originally buried the Spitfires.

Charles


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## tyrodtom (Nov 30, 2012)

What they may have considered as suitable protection for a few years may not hold up so well for what's ended up being 67-68 years.
Have the actually talked to the people who buried these aircraft ? Or talked to people, who knew of, etc. ?


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## stona (Nov 30, 2012)

They've talked to "eye witnesses". That is presumably people who saw them buried not those that did the burying but it's all conjecture.
Steve


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 30, 2012)

$5 says its nothing but Breda 88s Jimmie Hoffa.


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## T Bolt (Nov 30, 2012)

I remember seeing film clip of Wildcats being pushed of a carrier deck into the sea by the dozens after the war.


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## T Bolt (Nov 30, 2012)

I was looking for something about those Wildcats and came across this about PJMs (Navy B-25s) that were dumped off a barge into Kwajalein lagoon following V-J Day. Interesting reading and pictures.

Disposal of Aircraft: Page 1


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## bobbysocks (Nov 30, 2012)

from what i initially read...they drilled down and snaked a camera down into one of the crates. that is how they are determining the condition. they were supposedly the crates were never opened and the ac are still in the preserving media ( oil paper, cosmoline, ?? )they were shipped....


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## Edgar Brooks (Nov 30, 2012)

Quite simply, there are so many stories, it's impossible to know what (or who) to believe, and, as an added nuisance, we're up to our armpits in naysayers (some quite vicious in what they're saying,) who're desperate for there to be nothing. 
I can't understand it, since they'll get maybe a couple of days, crowing "I told you so," then nothing, while, if there are viable airframes there, thousands will be able to enjoy them, for years to come.
Digging is supposed to start mid-January (ish,) which is about 6-7 weeks, so is it really that hard to wait that long?


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## prem895 (Nov 30, 2012)

Well we have waited 60 odd yrs so far. What is a couple of months


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 30, 2012)

Edgar Brooks said:


> Quite simply, there are so many stories, it's impossible to know what (or who) to believe, and, as an added nuisance, we're up to our armpits in naysayers (some quite vicious in what they're saying,) who're desperate for there to be nothing.
> I can't understand it, since they'll get maybe a couple of days, crowing "I told you so," then nothing, while, if there are viable airframes there, thousands will be able to enjoy them, for years to come.
> Digging is supposed to start mid-January (ish,) which is about 6-7 weeks, so is it really that hard to wait that long?



In my 35 years in aviation I've heard dozens of these stories. A guy in California was supposed to have 2 crated Spitfires and a Hurricane stashed in a hangar, that was in the early 1990s. Other crated WW2 aircraft in storage at Long Beach harbor (1970s). And always the one in the widow's barn. I have a 20 to 1 rule - for evey 20 of these stories, one of them really turns out true. As stated earlier, I'll believe it when I see it, but I do raise questions when someone says a snaked camera was inserted insdie a crate and that these aircraft are said to be in "prestine" condition. Why no pics? I'd love to see this to be true, but at the same time, I'm not holding my breath.


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## Edgar Brooks (Nov 30, 2012)

Therein lies the problem; it isn't the same man saying these things. The leader of the project wasn't there when the camera(s?) went down, but has said that a light didn't accompany it, so anyone saying they're pristine is guessing. All we've seen is (one) scan of one small area, which shows some sort of magnetic anomaly, which experts have said looks hopeful.


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## Readie (Nov 30, 2012)

There are all sorts of things out there...I'm always looking for 'missing' classic motorbikes and cars to buy. I word I would use to describe many of my experiences so far at least is 'disappointment' as the 'find' is not what I expected....but, I live in hope.
Like Joe, I would love to see a stash of Spitfires discovered. We shall see.
Cheers
John


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## R Pope (Nov 30, 2012)

I keep recalling that '57 Plymouth that was buried as a time capsule with all the care they knew how to bestow, and when it was dug up a few years ago it was a rusted out pile of junk. Even if these planes are really there, what are the chances of them being any good after 70 years burial in a rain forest?


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## tomo pauk (Nov 30, 2012)

Spitfires were made from different material (mostly) - aluminium. No rusting there, at least not as it's expected for iron/steel. 

Anyway, for the Spitfires - seeing is believing.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 30, 2012)

Actually there was steel and possibly magnesium used the construction of the Spitfire airframe.


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## stona (Dec 1, 2012)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Actually there was steel and possibly magnesium used the construction of the Spitfire airframe.



Yes and not aluminium but principally duraluminium (duraluminum,dural,depending where you are),an alloy which does corrode.
Steve


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## fubar57 (Dec 1, 2012)

With the end of the world coming in a few weeks, if someone would like to send me down there, I'll start digging tomorrow. To cut down on your expenses, I do have my own shovel.

Geo


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## claidemore (Dec 1, 2012)

I've got three shovels and a pick....someone buys me a ticket over there, i'll bring the tools, and add to the local economy by hiring workers to operate them.  (It's not that I'm lazy....I just don't like to do anything).


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 2, 2012)

If they are there, the state their in is not that important.... Remember Glacier Girl?


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## tyrodtom (Dec 2, 2012)

Rust and corrosion are chemical processes that are greatly retarded by cold.


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## Snautzer01 (Dec 2, 2012)

Thats not the point The will rebuild anything Aircraft for sale - Legendary Aircraft - aircraft restoration, repair, rebuild, maintenance, Yak, Messerschmitt, Fw190, Focke-wulf, vintage, oldtimer, aeroplane


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## stona (Dec 2, 2012)

That's for sure.
This






Was changed into this






P 9374 which I got a good look at recently.

Cheers

Steve


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## andy2012 (Jan 6, 2013)

Excavators head to Burma hoping to uncover buried stash of WWII fighter planes | Fox News I saw this article today, I don't think this is anything new, just an update.


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## vinnye (Jan 7, 2013)

I had read before Christmas that they were to start work in January - looks like they are trying to keep their word.


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## Airframes (Jan 7, 2013)

BBC News reported the team had left for Burma on Saturday. With a bit of luck, we might get some updates in the next few weeks.


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## Gnomey (Jan 7, 2013)

Yep, will be interesting to see what news comes out in the next few weeks.


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 9, 2013)

We found something! Brit excavation team find crate believed to hold buried Spitfires in Myanmar | Bangkok Post: breakingnews


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## Njaco (Jan 9, 2013)

Thanks Snautzer. I moved your thread to an existing thread about the crated Spits.


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## Airframes (Jan 9, 2013)

Hm. Don't like the sound of that water. could still be in reasonably good condition, and restorable, but maybe not as good as originally hoped.


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## stona (Jan 9, 2013)

"Man made objects". Reminds me of the British Army's large stocks of mule shoes,carefully stored well into the late 20th century 
Cheers
Steve


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## woljags (Jan 9, 2013)

this would make great t.v for aircraft buffs showing the recovery etc and could poss make some funds available to aid in their recovery/restoration


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## Airframes (Jan 9, 2013)

I think they'll be filming/recording it Bob, for just that reason. Whatever the outcome, it'll make for a good TV documentary at some point in the future - beats the heck out of 'Time Team'!!


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## evangilder (Jan 9, 2013)

Airframes said:


> Hm. Don't like the sound of that water. could still be in reasonably good condition, and restorable, but maybe not as good as originally hoped.



I agree, Terry. Murky water for low visibility...It's not just the water, but what's in the soils around it and the composition of what is clouding the water. I'm still optimistic though.


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## prem895 (Jan 9, 2013)

Me too


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## Geedee (Jan 9, 2013)

They aint Spitfires.... them's Seafires


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## vikingBerserker (Jan 9, 2013)

..... or "Molefires"

I'll show myself out.........


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## Airframes (Jan 9, 2013)

Or maybe S*itfires!
On a more serious note, during WW2 the airfield at Mingaladon was to be found in two types of condition - either a total dust bowl, with dust literally ankle deep, or, in the Monsoon season, flooded and a sea of mud. As Eric stated, the water is not the big problem (apart from the logistics entailed in pumping/draining etc), it's what's in the soils that could cause corrosion problems.
If they weren't already crossed due to arthritis, I'd keep my fingers crossed that what (if anything) is recovered is worthwhile, and not a heap of corroded parts.


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## woljags (Jan 9, 2013)

well they are going to have to find their Wellington's 1st


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## Airframes (Jan 9, 2013)

Ah, use Wellington's to find Spitfires, before a Hurricane or Typhoon hits the area......... I'll get me coat!


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## Gnomey (Jan 9, 2013)

Yeah, the water/mud/soil won't of done much good I think. Be interesting to see if others are found in better places, less conducive to corrosion.

Still at least they found something whatever it is. Certainly will beat the crap out of Time Team...

 Terry.


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## Aozora (Jan 9, 2013)

I'm a sceptic - first, why go to the trouble of burying surplus Spitfires when the usual policy was to simply gather surplus aircraft into the middle of a field and drive a bulldozer through them or, as the Americans did, dump them off the side of a carrier, or dynamite them? 

Secondly, if these are Mk XIVs, as the story has long suggested, then something would have turned up in the records by now suggesting that there are some 20 to 100 XIVs, out of the just over 1,000 built, unaccounted for. I have been looking here Spitfire - Main and in Morgan and Shacklady and can find nothing to show "missing" Mk XIVs. 

If lots of Spitfires turn up I will be pleased as punch, but, until they are proven to be real I won't hold my breath...


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## Crimea_River (Jan 9, 2013)

I think these guys need to be cautious with their press releases. Raising hopes over a watery box of man made parts makes for plenty of PR management if these turn out to be rusty forks and spoons.


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## Wayne Little (Jan 10, 2013)

Show me the money....


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## Thorlifter (Jan 10, 2013)

A similar article was posted on telegraph.co.uk yesterday and it said it would take 2 weeks to drain the water. Dayum!!!! How big is this crate?

If you want to read the other article, here is the link...

Burma Spitfire search finds water-filled crate that may contain plane - Telegraph


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## bobbysocks (Jan 13, 2013)

kind of funny....the first report i read said they were able to send a camera down and see perfectly...that is why they were confident they were in really good shape. iirc the first reports said they were still in the original paper wrapping with some sort of oil as a protectorant....now they are in muddy water???


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## Crimea_River (Jan 13, 2013)

The two weeks makes sense if it refers to installing well points around the site to lower the water table. Obviously, pumping water out of the box alone will just pull more in from outside unless you get the overall level below the container.


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## Aozora (Jan 17, 2013)

Update:The first Spitfire has been uncovered!
First Spitfire excavated in Burma ! | AviaBlog


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## meatloaf109 (Jan 17, 2013)

I am sorry but that is an obvious fake. I have watched Jurrasic Park a couple of times and I know that he should be using a brush at this point, not a trowel.


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## vikingBerserker (Jan 17, 2013)




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## Crimea_River (Jan 17, 2013)

Gary posted that in the Quokes and Jokes thread last week.


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## andy2012 (Jan 17, 2013)

So that's what's in all those crates, no wonder why the British didn't want the Japanese to get it!


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## prem895 (Jan 17, 2013)

My question is, is the seal on the cap intact?


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## Njaco (Jan 17, 2013)

Thats pretty good!


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## N4521U (Jan 17, 2013)

Now THAT is what I call a find!


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## prem895 (Jan 17, 2013)

But will it fly


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## Airframes (Jan 18, 2013)

Probably not. But the finder will - after a dozen or so !


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## Capt. Vick (Jan 18, 2013)

I must be "Skunky" by now.


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## Crimea_River (Jan 18, 2013)

Can't be. It was completely covered in anti-oxidating oil, wrapped in oil skin and securely crated....


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## iron man (Jan 19, 2013)

Airframes said:


> Ah, use Wellington's to find Spitfires, before a Hurricane or Typhoon *OR A TEMPEST* hits the area......... I'll get me coat!



Fixed your post...LOL!


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## Airframes (Jan 19, 2013)

I could have continued with aircraft-related names, but kept it Short. 
Something along the lines of - " ....the specialists from the archaeology department at Oxford, following advice from a professor of soil mechanics from Harvard, have suggested that the recorded images from the ground-mapping radar could be Phantom returns. However, Dr. Armstrong Whitworth, from Stirling Research Foundation in Sunderland, has offered to send his specialist consultant, Pete Whitley, to view the site before the weather changes, as a Whirlwind, coming from the Rangoon region, is expected to arrive with Lightning speed, and will be a real Devastator." Etc, etc, etc ........


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## Njaco (Jan 21, 2013)

I just found this in an old thread from Micdrow...


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## vikingBerserker (Jan 21, 2013)

Very interesting.


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## Aozora (Jan 22, 2013)

Njaco said:


> I just found this in an old thread from Micdrow...



Very interesting; thanks Micdrow and Njaco.


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## stona (Jan 22, 2013)

Good stuff,thanks.

Interesting that the Australians thought that they had to seek permission to dispose of the Spitfires,probably because they hadn't paid for them.

This passage caught my eye.






No market! Imagine what those aircraft and parts would be worth today.

Cheers

Steve


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## Capt. Vick (Jan 22, 2013)

Airframes said:


> I could have continued with aircraft-related names, but kept it Short.
> Something along the lines of - " ....the specialists from the archaeology department at Oxford, following advice from a professor of soil mechanics from Harvard, have suggested that the recorded images from the ground-mapping radar could be Phantom returns. However, Dr. Armstrong Whitworth, from Stirling Research Foundation in Sunderland, has offered to send his specialist consultant, Pete Whitley, to view the site before the weather changes, as a Whirlwind, coming from the Rangoon region, is expected to arrive with Lightning speed, and will be a real Devastator." Etc, etc, etc ........



Well said Terry!


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## Crimea_River (Jan 22, 2013)

He certainly does not have Zero talent. He could have Focked it up badly but he came through with full Fury.


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## Njaco (Jan 22, 2013)

Defiant 'till the end!


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## vikingBerserker (Jan 22, 2013)

He certainly is Dauntless about it.


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## Njaco (Jan 22, 2013)

Now he's got a Messerschmitt in the kitchen.


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## meatloaf109 (Jan 22, 2013)

What the Focke-wulf are you guys talking about?


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## Crimea_River (Jan 23, 2013)

Nuthin'. Just Yakin'.


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## Piper106 (Jan 23, 2013)

+2 on what they would be worth today. 

In the Spitfire V disposal documents, Rolls Royce bought back Merlin 45 engines for 10 pounds apiece. 
I not sure what the excharge rate was back then, but it makes the $100 (US) surplus Allison engines look over priced.


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## SPEKTRE76 (Feb 1, 2013)

I sure do hope that one of these is at a minimum 75% intact. Then just a little Bondo, WD-40 and some love....we'll see the Spit's grace the Cliffs of Dover once more.



Oh I almost forgot, some 'Alabama Chrome' may be in order as well. That's Duct tape folks.


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## bobbysocks (Oct 8, 2013)

just when you thought it was all over but the crying....damn if they didnt think they know where more are...lol

New discovery reignites search for buried war birds | Toowoomba Chronicle

and wait...you too can be a part of this grand adventure....well at least your money can. so dont hesitate...pull out that checkbook and zip off your savings to:

Broken Wings by James Carter and Karl von Moller


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## prem895 (Oct 8, 2013)

...and with your donation you will also receive a deluxe,hand crafted with exquisite detail,limited edition,one of a kind,chrome plated high quality plastic SpitfireVb key chain in 1/400 scale. This is a great conversation piece. This offer is limited to one per household. Not available in Canada,U.S,Britain or Europe.


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## bobbysocks (Oct 8, 2013)

but wait! if you call right now, you know we cant do this all day, we will throw in a second deluxe,hand crafted with exquisite detail, limited edition, one of a kind,chrome plated high quality plastic SpitfireVb key chain in 1/400 scale...for no additional cost. all you pay is shipping and handling. so dont delay operators are standing by....


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## prem895 (Oct 8, 2013)

I just ordered one to my Mexican address. These are apparently individually hand crafted by aviatik. The detail is like looking at the real thing


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## The Bigfella (Aug 19, 2014)

The latest on this

Hope Fades in Burma Search for Buried Spitfires 

RANGOON — A quest to unearth dozens of British Spitfire aircraft thought to be buried in Burma looks likely to come to an unsuccessful end in October, with monsoon rains hampering excavation efforts as the two-year search contract’s expiration nears.

For years, rumors have persisted that many of the unassembled planes had been buried in Burma after World War II in 1945, though hard evidence to support the claims has not surfaced. During the war, the famed Spitfire fighter planes were used by the British in multiple theaters, including over Burma.

David Cundall, a British citizen and aviation enthusiast who has acted as team leader, took the reins of the project in late 2012, telling journalists that searches would being carried out at three locations: in Mingaladon Township near Rangoon International Airport, Myitkyina Township in Kachin State and Meikhtila Township in Mandalay Division.

Cundall said he believed there were at least 60 Spitfires buried after World War II by Britain’s Royal Air Force. The majority of the planes were said to be buried within Rangoon’s Mingaladon air base compound, today the site of the commercial capital’s international airport.

In mobilizing support for the search, Cundall has cited the testimonies of American, English and Burmese eyewitnesses who claimed to have helped bury the planes.

However the excavation team has been prevented from digging around Mingaladon airport since June due to heavy rains. Excavation efforts have been carried out by Cundall’s DJC company and local partner firm Shwe Taung Paw, with the permission of Burma’s Department of Civil Aviation (DCA).

“We’re going to end the project to excavate the Spitfires in October when the contract ends if there are no leads. We still believe that there might be Spitfires in Burma,” said Tun Kyaw, a spokesperson for Shwe Taung Paw said.

He said Cundall had returned to his home in Britain in June.

“We’ve stopped surveying around the airport since June because of heavy rains. Since then, we have been prohibited from surveying in some restricted areas of the airport due to international air rules. We still hope that there might be Spitfires under the ground [in restricted areas], but we can’t dig there,” Tun Kyaw said.

He added that excavations in Myitkyina and Meikhtila were halted early last year due to security concerns.

“So Mingaladon Airport was our only major excavation site. Now, we are going to stop all surveying,” Tun Kyaw said, adding that digs around Mingaladon had produced no trace of the planes.

Win Swe Tun, the DCA’s director general, told The Irrawaddy that the contract to search for the Spitfires would not be extended beyond October. The search team would be expected to cover the cost of restoring excavated airport grounds to their pre-hunt condition, he added.

Tun Kyaw declined to reveal how much the team had spent on its Spitfire search. Early reports indicated that Belarus-based Wargaming.net, a video gaming company, had pledged to put up to US$1 million toward the project, before pulling out in February 2013.

The iconic Spitfire is one of Britain’s most famous combat aircraft and gained its reputation during the Battle of Britain, when the agile single-seat fighter played a major part in fending off the German aerial assault. While some 21,000 Spitfires were built, only 35 remain in a good enough condition to fly.

Despite the enthusiasm generated among aviation enthusiasts by the prospect of the buried planes, a growing chorus of voices has cast doubt on their existence, with little in the way of official records that might be related to the rumor.


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## prem895 (Aug 19, 2014)

Oh well


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## evangilder (Aug 19, 2014)

Wow, didn't see that coming... /sarcasm


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## Crimea_River (Jun 8, 2016)

Hunt for legendary Spitfires buried in Burma is back on


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## prem895 (Jun 8, 2016)

This is indeed good news


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## Capt. Vick (Jun 9, 2016)

Everytime I get out, they drag me back in!


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## GrauGeist (Jun 9, 2016)

well...this should be interesting...


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## Airframes (Jun 9, 2016)

Good news indeed, and lets hope Mr. Cundall's faith in his project is rewarded this time around.
I see we have what appears to be a new Museum in London, according to that newspaper article - I didn't know about the 'International War Museum' ................. cough !

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## GrauGeist (Jun 9, 2016)

lol Terry!!

Well, I will say that modern satellite technology has actually helped find a great many new and important finds in regards to archaeology, so he may actually be onto something.

One thought that came to mind a while back, was if he did indeed find this cache of Spitfires, it would drop the value of the existing ones...and warbirds are a lucrative market. Not trying to put a conspiracy spin on this, but it's just a thought...


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## Airframes (Jun 9, 2016)

But it could mean you could have_ two_ Spits, rather than just the one !


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## fubar57 (Jun 9, 2016)

_Please don't screw this up.........please don't screw this up........please don't screw this up................._


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## stona (Jun 9, 2016)

The hunt isn't for legendary Spitfires, it's for Spitfires. I admire the man's perseverance, but fear an eventual triumph of reality over hope and expectation.
Cheers
Steve


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## GrauGeist (Jun 9, 2016)

Well...to be honest, they had to go somewhere.

If they had been cut up for scrap, someone would have recalled that just as there would be someone who would have recalled purchasing the material. If they had been taken intact by someone, they would have popped up at one location or another eventually.

There were also many instances of U.S. aircraft after the conclusion of the PTO, that were pushed off the ends of island runways by bulldozers. I used to have a good article about it somewhere and I think that the site "Pacific Wrecks" may have actually located one of the piles of aircraft, too.


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## Capt. Vick (Jun 9, 2016)

Eyewitness accounts, sadly, are highly unreliable.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 9, 2016)

well, personal recollections are better than nothing.

And think about it, if one or more people recalled driving truckloads of scrapped aircraft to the smelter/metal dealer, then that would be a clue as to what may have happened. The dates/times/places may be inaccurate, but that would be a clue as to what may have happened.

As it is, several people have recollected the crated aircraft, but no one can recall exactly what happened. Now, if they were indeed buried, I am sure the equipment operators were under an NDA agreement, because if they went around telling people "yeah, we just dug a bigass hole and dropped them in", that would defeat the purpose of burying them - which was to prevent them from falling into the wrong hands.

So it'll be interesting to see if they are actually found - that would at least one mystery (as there's plenty of other hidden/buried aircraft stories out there)


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## Graeme (Jun 13, 2016)

Saw this photo in a magazine today. Inside the box is a British Auster light aircraft. I would imagine a boxed Spitfire to be a lot bigger. Now, how many boxed Spitfires did this guy think were buried in Burma - 60? You can now imagine the amount of earth that had to moved to fit them. That's why the whole thing seems ludicrous to me...


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 13, 2016)

Perhaps they were packed on the Nazi Gold train so it's just a really long and deep trench.......


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## bobbysocks (Jun 13, 2016)

he must have found more backers.....why does PT Barnum's comments....a sucker born every minute come to mind?

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## bobbysocks (Jun 13, 2016)

I don't know Graeme...if the engine were removed the box looks like it could fit an airframe from the firewall back and wings. but like you said that is a heck of a lot of earth to move. would be easier to burn them, crush them with a dozer, them push them in a hole. there was a thread years ago about a place in Norway where the germans did that or the allies did that to german AC.


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## Gnomey (Jun 13, 2016)

Will certainly be interesting to see what comes from the search.


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## Crimea_River (Jun 13, 2016)

Well, I'm not holding my breath!


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## GrauGeist (Jun 14, 2016)

Graeme said:


> Saw this photo in a magazine today. Inside the box is a British Auster light aircraft. I would imagine a boxed Spitfire to be a lot bigger. Now, how many boxed Spitfires did this guy think were buried in Burma - 60? You can now imagine the amount of earth that had to moved to fit them. That's why the whole thing seems ludicrous to me...
> 
> View attachment 346135


If you think about it, as the war wound down, there were plenty of men and equipment available...nothing surprises me, to be honest.

Here in the U.S., they are pursuing a dig permit at Freeman field, where many Axis planes are buried. They are not sure how many actually ended up there, but they do know that there was a huge pit dug and the planes were shoved in and buried (not in crates, of course).


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## fubar57 (Jun 14, 2016)

They need this if they're going to find those Spitfires

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## vikingBerserker (Jun 14, 2016)

LMAO, BRILLIANT!


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## Graeme (Jun 18, 2016)

GrauGeist said:


> Here in the U.S., they are pursuing a dig permit at Freeman field, where many Axis planes are buried. They are not sure how many actually ended up there, but they do know that there was a huge pit dug and the planes were shoved in and buried (not in crates, of course).



Dave, no hole dug by Americans would surprise me. Saw this photo in a book the other day. Seabees preparing an airfield in the Pacific - dunno how they got that boulder(?) on whatever that machinery is. Looks like something from the Thunderbirds. Awesome earth-moving capabilities.

But Burma?
The British?
Mate, I keep seeing images of villagers with cane baskets and wheelbarrows preparing airfields there.

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## gumbyk (Jul 12, 2016)

Apparently there's a Burmese spitfire been restored....


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## Airframes (Jul 12, 2016)

Nice one.
Here it is at the BoB airshow at Duxford, in September last year.

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## Wurger (Jul 12, 2016)




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## Denniss (Dec 3, 2017)

should this thread be un-stickied ?
Nothing more than hot air was found/produced


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## Crimea_River (Dec 3, 2017)

Well, just in case......


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## at6 (Dec 3, 2017)

So this too lives once more. Woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Woot! Woot!!!!


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## bobbysocks (Dec 3, 2017)

just as soon as you do the bugger will find them.....right beside that german gold train.


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## pbehn (Dec 3, 2017)

I jst don't get any of these stories. It is only flying regulations and nostalgia that make them. The restored Spitfire found at Dunkerque is actually a new build airframe. If someone has enough money they can get a Spitfire but it wont have the cudos of being in the Battle of Britain or other historic action.


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## gumbyk (Dec 3, 2017)

That 'cudos of being in the Battle of Britain or other historic action' is only really important to people outside of owners and operators of these aircraft. I've only really heard it said as an interesting note about the aircraft. A spitfire is a spitfire, the actual battles it took part in don't change what it is.


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## pbehn (Dec 3, 2017)

gumbyk said:


> That 'cudos of being in the Battle of Britain or other historic action' is only really important to people outside of owners and operators of these aircraft. I've only really heard it said as an interesting note about the aircraft. A spitfire is a spitfire, the actual battles it took part in don't change what it is.


You don't get endless coverage in the media building a replica but you do if you "restore" a WW2 veteran. The plane rescued from the beach at Dunkerque has been on TV more times than "Reach for the sky" and was in every national paper/web site, including documentaries of how it was done.


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## GregP (Dec 6, 2017)

Well said gumbyk. The owners and restorers want a flyable, sometimes rather authentic warbird, not a certified veteran, though it IS an added bonus, as you say, should it be one, and can affect the value. The public doesn't care at all, if they're at an airshow, and would rather see one NOT a famous veteran fly than a certified war hero static. Me, too, for that matter. 

Most of the public are lucky to guess which country it flew for, much less the correct airframe. We have people all the time ask us if our B-25 is a B-24! And everyone has an uncle , cousin, grandfather, etc. who flew one or flew in one.


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## gumbyk (Dec 6, 2017)

That's my attitude to Flugwerk FW190's and the like too. I'd rather see a well-done replica/reproduction flying than an original static, although both have their place.

It's funny though, we don't have this debate around WW1 aircraft...


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## Gnomey (Dec 6, 2017)

I'm sure someone will find a colour picture of them at some point...


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## pbehn (Dec 6, 2017)

Gnomey said:


> I'm sure someone will find a colour picture of them at some point...


That would be helpful for a model I am building.

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## Airframes (Dec 6, 2017)

Arrrgh !


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 7, 2017)

I think there is a great thread about that very topic!


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## fubar57 (Dec 7, 2017)

Do you have a link David? I haven't seen it


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## Airframes (Dec 7, 2017)

Seen what ?
Darn, he we go again ...........................


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 7, 2017)




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## at6 (Dec 8, 2017)




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## Gnomey (Dec 8, 2017)




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