# Favourite campaign/battle in the 'West' WW2



## merlin (Feb 13, 2009)

I see we have one for the Pacific, so thought I would one for the Western Allies versus Germany Italy.


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## Amsel (Feb 13, 2009)

Ardennes is a pretty interesting battle.


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## renrich (Feb 13, 2009)

I picked the North African campaigns, particularly the portion in the beginning against the Italians and then the Afrika Korps. It seems like North Africa was tailor made for a mechanised war with not many civilians and not much environment to mess up.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 13, 2009)

For me it is the N. African campaigns. I have always been fascinated with learning about Rommel and the Afrika Korps. I read as much as I can on the subject and I also collect Afrika Korps artifacts and uniforms.


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## MacArther (Feb 13, 2009)

I like North Africa because of the vastness of the terrain and the variety of tactics that could be employed. However, my *favorite* campaign would have to be D-Day. Cliche I know, but the fact that the Germans were caught off guard not by a well orchestrated air drop, but rather by the exact opposite has always fascinated me. Also, the attack on Pegasus Bridge and the subsequent holding of the area despite major counter attack leaves me in awe.


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## ToughOmbre (Feb 13, 2009)

D-Day and the Ardennes have always held interest for me since my father fought in both battles.

TO


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## SoD Stitch (Feb 13, 2009)

I like the Ardennes because by then the Germans were utlizing all of their classic "heavies", like the Tiger, the Panther and the Tiger II, and were just beginning to use their _wunder_ weapons, like the Me 262 and the Ar 234. "The gamble that nearly paid off".


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## pbfoot (Feb 13, 2009)

The march up the boot of Italy


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## BombTaxi (Feb 13, 2009)

I see I have posted the only vote for the Battle of the Atlantic so far, so I will briefly explain why  

IMHO, without this battle, none of the others would have been possible. Even before the large-scale advent of Lend-Lease and eventual staging of US forces through the UK, the Atlantic trade was vital to keep money and materials flowing into the UK. The Admiralty learned a hard lesson in 1917, when Britain was literally weeks away from starvation due to U-boats, and tragically this lesson was forgotten over the next 25 years. Churchill admitted that nothing scared him more than the U-boat threat.

Over the next 3 years, the Allies re-learned all that had been forgotten and then some. Huge resources poured into the theatre resulted in huge advances in radar, sonar, weaponry and ship design - the Atlantic bred the Flower class corvettes, escort carriers, Type XXI U-boats and Liberty, Victory and Standard class transports to name a few.

And most importantly, it demanded huge sacrifice on the part of the civilian, non-combatant crews of the merchantmen, who never volunteered to fight on this particular front line, and were sometimes unwilling warriors. These men never wore a uniform, and did not receive much of the glory or reward of the servicemen who performed equally heroic service beside them. I believe their sacrifice to be one too often overlooked


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## Konigstiger205 (Feb 15, 2009)

Battle of Britain by far. First the war hadn't reach a standstill yet and the Germans still had the advantage. To be honest I can't imagine something more majestic than a sky filled with warbirds dogfighting. That doesn't mean I support war or anything.


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## Arsenal VG-33 (Feb 15, 2009)

Battle of France 1940 for me. After 65 years, details are still surfacing about this campaigne.


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## parsifal (Feb 15, 2009)

I think its the Battle for Maltafor me. It was just a struggle of will more than anything, neither side able to claim victory until the very end. The fate of the North African campaign resting on this one small island. No clear winner until the very end


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 15, 2009)

Arsenal VG-33 said:


> Battle of France 1940 for me. After 65 years, details are still surfacing about this campaigne.



As with all campaigns of WW2, new details surface all regularly...


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## Lucky13 (Feb 15, 2009)

No clear favorite for me, interested in them all....


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## michaelmaltby (Feb 15, 2009)

The Scheldt in Holland, late '44. Nasty battlein flooded fields.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Feb 15, 2009)

Paticuarly intereted in D-day, Arnhem(Market Garden) and the Ardennes. I've read Cornelius Ryan's "A Bridge Too Far", and "The Longest Day."


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## Ferdinand Foch (Feb 16, 2009)

I went with Arnhem, I don't know, but the whole idea of the British Paratroopers fighting incredible odds against the S.S. kinda struck me as something to remember (as the rest of the Second World War should be). 
I do enjoy reading about Italy, though, especially about the Battle for Monte Cassino. Just reminds me alot of the First World War, with the trenches and gaining only a few hundred yards at a cost of a few thousand casualties.


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## RabidAlien (Feb 17, 2009)

In the absence of the Hurtgen Forest campaign, I chose Battle of the Bulge. Yeah, alot of green troops broke and ran, which history tends to focus on. But there were a TON of other, smaller heroic "last stands" similar to the 101st in Bastogne. If the 10th Infantry hadn't delayed the Germans on the road to Bastogne, the 101st would've arrived to an occupied city. If the 82nd hadn't made its stand on the Elsenborne Ridge, pounding away at the passing columns, there might've been enough fodder to overrun Bastogne, and push all the way to Antwerp. Countless stories of sheer heroism in the face of overwhelming odds by the Allies....and the ability of the Axis to scrape that many forces together, and assemble them, without the Allies knowing what they were up to, ya just gotta respect that, too!


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## fly boy (Feb 17, 2009)

the bulge


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## drgondog (Feb 17, 2009)

I like most of them, but have a passion for studying the batteles that required combined air/land/sea strategies.

The air battles of BoB and Germany take up the most of my time as airpower has been a long study for me.


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## drgondog (Feb 17, 2009)

RabidAlien said:


> In the absence of the Hurtgen Forest campaign, I chose Battle of the Bulge. Yeah, alot of green troops broke and ran, which history tends to focus on. But there were a TON of other, smaller heroic "last stands" similar to the 101st in Bastogne. If the 10th Infantry hadn't delayed the Germans on the road to Bastogne, the 101st would've arrived to an occupied city. If the 82nd hadn't made its stand on the Elsenborne Ridge, pounding away at the passing columns, there might've been enough fodder to overrun Bastogne, and push all the way to Antwerp. Countless stories of sheer heroism in the face of overwhelming odds by the Allies....and the ability of the Axis to scrape that many forces together, and assemble them, without the Allies knowing what they were up to, ya just gotta respect that, too!



The Bulge is truly an orchestra of squad to company strength heroics in a very fluid battle... before the Divisions were fully engaged

The 82nd 504PIR battle at Stavelot is a much overlooked, and crucial contribution - but the Puking Buzzards deserved the all aclaim they received, along with the 10th Armored tank destroyer teams, for Bastogne. 

The 28th ID at St Vith was as important as Bastogne. Without their stand there would have not been a 'Bastogne'.

and the Engineers - what a job they did


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## parsifal (Feb 18, 2009)

guys the ardennes battle was a courageous fight, make no mistake, and an important one, and there is nothing wrong with making it your favourite battle to study in WWII. However, some sembalance of reality is needed IMO, given that Rundstedt called it "the battle without hope", which it was from the german POV. He also said that the germans should get down on their knees and thank God, if they ade it to the Meuse, let alone make the hook to Antwerp.

So too was Monty's gamble at Arnhem....courageous battles against the odds, but the issue was never in doubt (this time the other way around, however)


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## Amsel (Feb 18, 2009)

The hopelessness of it is an interesting aspect to the battle. It was one of the last great blunders of the third reich as far as saving themselves from the fire and sword that was to come. It was a waste of valuable assets that were much needed at the Oder. It is also an interesting look into the endurance and morale of men in constant combat for months on end. The armor battles are especially interesting in seeing the superiority of German armor and at the same time see it fall aprt due to supply and quality comtrol issues.


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## drgondog (Feb 18, 2009)

parsifal said:


> guys the ardennes battle was a courageous fight, make no mistake, and an important one, and there is nothing wrong with making it your favourite battle to study in WWII. However, some sembalance of reality is needed IMO, given that Rundstedt called it "the battle without hope", which it was from the german POV. He also said that the germans should get down on their knees and thank God, if they ade it to the Meuse, let alone make the hook to Antwerp.
> 
> So too was Monty's gamble at Arnhem....courageous battles against the odds, but the issue was never in doubt (this time the other way around, however)



Parsifal - I agree the distinctions. 

I have always felt it was an extremely interesting battle to study for many reasons but do not place it in top three (or whatever), other than a demonstrated US capacity for tenacious and flexible defense.

I might have to disagree on Market Garden that the gamble had a foregone conclusion. If armor had had been led by Patton and armor had quickly exploited the 101st and 82nd bridgeheads? We'll never know but interesting to speculate if the outcame could have been different.

My biggest issue with Monty is the piecemeal destruction of so many 101 and 82 troopers in Holland after Arnhem went under, as conventional infantry for two months. Wasted - and would have represented even more formidable resistence at the Bulge


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## parsifal (Feb 19, 2009)

ther is a boardgame called "Market Garden" (I think). It was put out by SPI about twenty years agao, using the award winning "Wacht Am Rhein" combat system. Though called a wargame, it was really in the serious military simulation genre. It was viewed as accurate enough to be used for many years as a training tool at Sandhurst.

I was lucky enough to be given a spot in a simulation at our military college here one year at Duntroon, playing the roll of Horrocks Corps. IIt was an exceptionally difficult task getting that armour to the last bridge in time. There was just one road, the surrounding countryside was waterlogged, ther were German ambushes at every turn, and getting the armour through the intervening villages a nightmare. 

It was a very intersting and informative "game". In real life peraps a more aggressive commander might have done better, but my experience with the thing suggests otherwise....

but a very intersting battle nevertheless....


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## steelDUST (Feb 20, 2009)

I think the italian and sicilian campaigns are worth studying.
And the ardennes offensive is also to be noted with joachim pieper at the tip of the thrust.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Feb 20, 2009)

steelDUST said:


> I think the italian and sicilian campaigns are worth studying.
> And the ardennes offensive is also to be noted with joachim pieper at the tip of the thrust.



Oh yeah, Battlegroup Peiper. Did they have to abandon most of their vehicles at the end?


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## luiz camacho (Feb 21, 2009)

guys !

you have to see on you tube "malta battles " !


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## B-17engineer (Feb 22, 2009)

For me, It HAS to be the Bulge, the Germans almost broke through allied lines but a few group of men help them off in Bastonge and what not, it just seems amazing that such a feat could be pulled off by very few men....


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## B-17engineer (Feb 22, 2009)

Oh yes also, I wonder if Hitler had let commanders plan more than he himself if the Bulge could've actually worked....


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Feb 22, 2009)

Can I vote for them all


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## Marcel (Feb 23, 2009)

For me (no surprise here) it should be the battle of Holland 1940 (not there). I live in this country and I can see the traces of it everywhere. Further more it is lesser known that for instance Market Garden. It's a source of many myths here while facts are still unclear very often.


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## Mercatorman (Mar 15, 2009)

BombTaxi said:


> I see I have posted the only vote for the Battle of the Atlantic so far, so I will briefly explain why
> 
> IMHO, without this battle, none of the others would have been possible. Even before the large-scale advent of Lend-Lease and eventual staging of US forces through the UK, the Atlantic trade was vital to keep money and materials flowing into the UK. The Admiralty learned a hard lesson in 1917, when Britain was literally weeks away from starvation due to U-boats, and tragically this lesson was forgotten over the next 25 years. Churchill admitted that nothing scared him more than the U-boat threat.
> 
> ...


A good general thinks about tactics. A great general thinks about logistics.


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## Marcogrifo (Apr 3, 2009)

Speaking about WW2 airwar over all, I think the battle for Malta (like the more famous and iper-celebrated Battle of Britain) was one of the most intense and tragic event in the struggle for supremacy in the MTO.
No ground troops nor artillery or tanks faced-off: only air and sea battles.
And some british veteran pilot said it was way worse than BOB.

Cheers


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## Thorlifter (Apr 3, 2009)

I agree with Lucky. No clear choice for me. But choosing just one, I'd go with D-Day.


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