# Do you have favorite WW2 aircraft



## trackend (Apr 7, 2007)

I would find it really interesting why you fellas settle on a particular aircraft as you favorite.

I'll start the ball rolling with mine the Fairy Swordfish
Out of date by the beginning of the war yet one of the most successful carrier based planes of the war with a Mercantile Naval kill tonnage that is disputed as being one (if not the) highest 
Used for everything from torpedo plane to dive bomber, rockets to mine laying , the old String bag got used for the lot a real David and Goliath aircraft.
Almost a first world war design of plane fighting in a second world war theater and still putting on a incredible show.

Whats your favorite plane and why?


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## lesofprimus (Apr 7, 2007)

Mine is the Fw 190D-9...

To me, it was the epitome of a fighter aircraft... It looks beautiful, the long nose breathes muscle, it was a proven superiority fighter, and for the innovation the aircraft showed following the Fw 190A-8.... Every single pilot who transitioned into it found it amazing, and its excellent combat record, as well as the Allies opinion of it make it my favorite....


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## johnbr (Apr 7, 2007)

For me it is the P-47 built like a tank and fast.A great ground and air fignter.


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## brickhistory (Apr 7, 2007)

Bristol Beaufighter

First effective night fighter
Excellent long range strike/maritime interdiction
Heavy offensive firepower
Looks like a pissed off bulldog


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## Negative Creep (Apr 7, 2007)

It has to be the Spitfire. In asthetic terms it is beautiful; every line on it is just perfect, and the noise it makes is just heavenly. Being specific, I'd say either the mk.1 or mk.9, as there was a certain purity to the design. Aside from its achievement as an aircraft, there is also a real romance about it, a real example of British engineering and success against the odds.

Aside form that I would rank the P-51 for much the same reasons, the P-38 just for being so different, the P-47 for much the same reason I love muscle cars, the Beaufighter and the Swordfish, for being so out of date yet managing so much.


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## lesofprimus (Apr 7, 2007)

Its favorite, not favorites.......


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## mkloby (Apr 7, 2007)

lesofprimus said:


> Its favorite, not favorites.......



Haha. Some are too indecisive to pick a single ship.

My favorite is the Bf 109. It brought fighter performance to a new level for "modern" operational fighter design and construction.

My favorite 109 model, well that would be the Bf 109F-4. Nice, clean, and sharp looking with an uprated powerplant. I would almost sell my soul to get my grubby hands on the stick of one of them...


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## pbfoot (Apr 7, 2007)

mkloby said:


> Haha. Some are too indecisive to pick a single ship.
> 
> My favorite is the Bf 109. It brought fighter performance to a new level for "modern" operational fighter design and construction.
> 
> My favorite 109 model, well that would be the Bf 109F-4. Nice, clean, and sharp looking with an uprated powerplant. I would almost sell my soul to get my grubby hands on the stick of one of them...


If your a big guy you have to oil yourself down to fit in but then again its the same with the Spit they must have been dwarfs back then


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## renrich (Apr 7, 2007)

At the Cavanaugh Air Museum, in Addison, Texas, they had a BF109, which model I don't know and a Spitfire, don't know the model, both deadly looking. The BF, angular, long, lean, I don't see how the pilot could see out of the tiny heavily framed cockpit. The Spitfire, graceful, also slim, tiny compared to a P47 next to it. My favorite, like a blue baseball bat, big vertical stabilizer, inverted gull wing, the best piston engined fighter bomber ever, the F4U.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 7, 2007)

Mine? Well....

*Oh, Hedy Lamar is a beautiful gal

Madeline Carroll is too

But you’ll find if you query a much different theory

Amongst any bomber crew

That the loveliest thing of which one can sing

This side of the heavenly gates

Is no blonde or brunette of the Hollywood set

But an escort of P-38s



In all the days past when the tables were massed

With glasses of scotch and champagne

It’s quite true that that sight was a thing to delight us

Intent on feeling no pain

But no longer the same nowadays in this game

As we sail onto the missing state

Take your sparkling wine but always make mine

An escort of P-38s



Byron, Shelley and Keats ran each other dead heats

Describing the views from the hills

Of the valleys in May where the winds gently sway

An army of bright daffodils

Take your daffodils Byron, the wild flowers Shelley

Yours is the myrtle, friend Keats

Just preserve me those cuties

All American beauties

An escort of P-38s



Sure we’re braver than hell on the ground all is well

In the air it’s a much different story

As we sweat out our track through the fighters and flak

We’re willing to split up the glory

Well, they wouldn’t reject us so heaven protect us

Until all this shootin’ abates

Give us courage to fight ‘em and another small item

An escort of P-38s*


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## mkloby (Apr 7, 2007)

renrich said:


> At the Cavanaugh Air Museum, in Addison, Texas, they had a BF109, which model I don't know and a Spitfire, don't know the model, both deadly looking. The BF, angular, long, lean, I don't see how the pilot could see out of the tiny heavily framed cockpit. The Spitfire, graceful, also slim, tiny compared to a P47 next to it. My favorite, like a blue baseball bat, big vertical stabilizer, inverted gull wing, the best piston engined fighter bomber ever, the F4U.


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## Wildcat (Apr 7, 2007)

Well I have a few, but on top of my list would be the Vultee Vengeance. Not the greatest or best known a/c ever built, but it's big bulky appearance makes it look like it means business. Was a very accurate and reliable dive bomber though only saw a relatively short operational career.


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## Civettone (Apr 7, 2007)

Those are the best pictures I've ever seen of Vultee Vengeances. Rather funny too! 8)



I'm still thinking of my favorite WW2 aircraft. So many to chose from...
Kris


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## Wildcat (Apr 8, 2007)

Civettone said:


> Those are the best pictures I've ever seen of Vultee Vengeances. Rather funny too! 8)



What's funny Kris?


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## trackend (Apr 8, 2007)

I love individuality. I like how your personal taste varies so much in aircraft not always the best, not always the prettiest, just something that you latch onto be it the history, character or esthetic's. Great stuff guys thanks


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## plan_D (Apr 8, 2007)

The Spitfire Mk.XIV - no matter what fighter the enemy were sat in, the Mk.XIV would give you one hell of a fight, win or lose.


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## Ajax (Apr 8, 2007)

> "In 1940 I could at least fly as far as Glasgow in most of my aircraft, but not now! It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green and yellow with envy.
> 
> The British, who can afford aluminium better than we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have now increased yet again. What do you make of that?”


 — Hermann Göring, January 1943


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 8, 2007)

My favorite is the Bf-109. I love the classic war bird looks on her. She looked like a bird of prey but at the same time beautiful. My favorite varient is the Bf-109G-6. Despite what many people think and choose to believe the 109 was competative to from the beginning to the end and was love by the pilots that flew her.


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## Njaco (Apr 8, 2007)

I'd have to go with Les and pick the "Dora". It just looks fearsome.


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## Jank (Apr 8, 2007)

Late model P-47D with paddle blades.


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## pbfoot (Apr 8, 2007)

the bell P63 c


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## Civettone (Apr 8, 2007)

Adler, interesting that you prefer the G-6. Many people think she's the ugly sister of the family because of those bulges. 

When looks are concerned I go for those in my signature.
Kris


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## lesofprimus (Apr 8, 2007)

I dont think Adlers choice is strictly on looks... I actually find those bulges menacing...

"My guns are so big they dont fit in my plane..."


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## mkloby (Apr 8, 2007)

lesofprimus said:


> I dont think Adlers choice is strictly on looks... I actually find those bulges menacing...
> 
> "My guns are so big they dont fit in my plane..."



 It does look badass


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 9, 2007)

I actually think the bulges make her look great. It gives her a bad ass look in my opinion.


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## lesofprimus (Apr 9, 2007)

Told ya....


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## Civettone (Apr 9, 2007)

Kris


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## Erich (Apr 9, 2007)

Ta 152H-1 for day and the Ju 88G-6 at night

were you expecting anything else ? though I do like the P-51D


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## Bernhart (Apr 9, 2007)

Hurricanes, designed in the 30's still being used in fairly large numbers at the end of the war


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## comiso90 (Apr 9, 2007)

I was in a hobby store the other day and they had a ton of VERY cool die cast metal war bird models. I decided to buy one for my desk but I couldn't choose just one so I didn't buy any!


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## twoeagles (Apr 9, 2007)

Mitsu' A6M5.

Beautifully balanced proportions, smooth graceful lines.
An extension of the pilot in every sense. If there's a heaven,
may God grant me a grass strip with an A6M waiting...


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## Marcel (Apr 9, 2007)

Fokker G.I.
because:
1. it is beautiful (in my opinion)
2. A lot of fire power at the time (1936)
3. One of the best heavy fighters at the start of the war(again in my opinion)
4. It's dutch and I should be proud of my country, shouldn't I


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## Civettone (Apr 9, 2007)

Dag Marcel, I read that the Fokker G.I had lots of problems with its guns. On many if not most occasions some of its MGs jammed.

Kris


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## Thorlifter (Apr 9, 2007)

I love a bunch of different planes for very different reasons.

Me-109 - Just looks like it wants to fight
P-47 - If it won't shoot you down, it will sit on you.
Spitfire - Beautiful and deadly
Me-110 - Just looks mean
Zero - elegant
P-40 - Come on, I dare ya!!!
Fw-190 - "You pick the type of fight you want and I'll still win"

But my favorites has been and always will be the Corsair. Beautiful, sleek, power galour, ample firepower, tough, fast, and that whistling sound to boot.


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## Marcel (Apr 9, 2007)

Hi Kris,

I haven't heard of this problem. I'm very interested if you have some more information on that. What I do know is that some of the G.I. weren't fitted with the 9 MG's intended, either the planes were G.I.B's, without the 20mm gunns, leaving only 4 MG's in the nose or on some G.I.A's they weren't fitted because the MG's were in short supply (typical dutch greediness).


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## bigZ (Apr 9, 2007)

My favorite the Fw ta 152H-1. Although the Spit XI and Re2005 came pretty close.


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## renrich (Apr 9, 2007)

Wildcat, I always admired the look of the A35 Vengeance also. It had good performance figures too. Wonder why it did not play a bigger role? A cousin, the Vultee Vanguard was also a handsome aircraft with some serving in the CBI. Another intriguing air craft was the Curtis Wright CW-21 Demon. Some of them served in Java before being disposed of by the Japanese.


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## Civettone (Apr 9, 2007)

Dag Marcel;

The nose section of the G.1. caused problems too. The armament chosen by the Dutch air force, 8 machine guns for so-called 'water-can fire', proved to very problematic during landings. Due to this heavy armament the plane became nose-heavy and several G-1’s ground looped during landing. 

A good solution for this problem has never been found though in 1939 a plan was made to give the G.1. Wasp a different setup.

In this design 4 of the machineguns where relocated to the bomb bay firing from underneath the pilot. In use the machineguns proved to be very unreliable partly due to the low temperatures at high altitude. 

This sensitivity for subzero temperatures has been solved by using a different lubricant. Despite that the armament kept on causing problems; firing them on the ground was no problem, but in the air usual 2 or 3 of them jammed. This problem has never been solved. 

(from: http://www.dutch-aviation.nl/index5/Military/index5-1 G1.html)


Renrich, 
the Demon had the best climb rate in the world but was used in the wrong way. 

Kris


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Apr 9, 2007)

I don't really know. 



Out of the 5 USSAF fighters I'm undecided as the my absolute favorite. The P-39 is probably at the bottom.

Out of the german aircraft, they kinda compete together. The 109 is the nastiest looking, except for the Stuka.

British: Spit.

Japanese: Zero?

Russian: Not quite sure.


I'll just go for something fat and say: Brewster Buffalo or the Polikarpov I-16

Good, steady, and unflattering fighters.


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## Thorlifter (Apr 9, 2007)

Soundbreaker Welch? said:


> I'll just go for something fat and say: Brewster Buffalo or the Polikarpov I-16



  

You could throw in the Boomarang!!


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## lesofprimus (Apr 9, 2007)

> I'll just go for something fat and say: Brewster Buffalo or the Polikarpov I-16


U dont by chance favor the larger woman type do u???


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## Wildcat (Apr 9, 2007)

lesofprimus said:


> U dont by chance favor the larger woman type do u???



Any holes a goal Les... 



Thorlifter said:


> You could throw in the Boomarang!!



Now there's a cool looking plane, one of my favourites, but I wouldn't call it fat... just a little bit tubby 



renrich said:


> Wildcat, I always admired the look of the A35 Vengeance also. It had good performance figures too. Wonder why it did not play a bigger role?


We must have good taste Contrary to popular belief the Vengeance was quiet a successful Dive bomber, I don't know much about RAF/IAF use in Burma (info hard to find) but with the RAAF in New Guinea they were quiet effective. In fact the RAAF lost more aircrew and a/c in training accidents in Australia then they did on operations. It appears the Vengeance squadrons were sent out of New Guinea on the orders of Gen. Kenney, not the RAAF, because other a/c (namely fighter bombers) were capable of doing the same role and didn't require a fighter escort. Also believe that the airfield space was needed for USAAF P38 squadrons transfering from other areas.



renrich said:


> A cousin, the Vultee Vanguard was also a handsome aircraft with some serving in the CBI. Another intriguing air craft was the Curtis Wright CW-21 Demon. Some of them served in Java before being disposed of by the Japanese.


I agree with the Vanguard, always reminded me of the early Corsair. I've heard that it was a capable a/c but only a handfull made their way into Chinese service where IIRC most were destroyed on the ground.
Do you have any info on the Demon? Would be interested to read up on one of the forgotten fighters of the early campaigns in the Pacific.


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## mkloby (Apr 9, 2007)

twoeagles said:


> Mitsu' A6M5.
> 
> Beautifully balanced proportions, smooth graceful lines.
> An extension of the pilot in every sense. If there's a heaven,
> may God grant me a grass strip with an A6M waiting...



and an F6F when you check 6 ready to rock you  

I am actually fond of that aircraft as well, although I'd prefer the A6M2.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Apr 9, 2007)

U dont by chance favor the larger woman type do u???

I don't think so, in particular. I just sympathize with aircraft like them.

Slim is really ok for me, unfortunately. 

Never heard of the Boomerang until today. Ignorance doesn't pay. 

But now I do. The Boomerang. A nice addition to the Obese Fighters Collection. (Somebody should start an Airshow under that name.  )


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## Brain32 (Apr 10, 2007)

If I really, really had to choose only one, then it must be the FW190D9


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## lesofprimus (Apr 10, 2007)

OK, just added a Poll to this... Please place ur vote... If ur fav isnt up there, put it down and Ill add it....


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## evangilder (Apr 10, 2007)

Ummm...where is the C-47? That is not only my favorite WWII aircraft, but my favorite aircraft of _all _time.


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## Parmigiano (Apr 10, 2007)

Difficult choice between the Spit MK I, the 190A (to me is more proportioned than the long nose variant), the P47, the RE2005 and the Zero.

Having to pick one, I say the 190A

For those who like 'chubby' fightrs, have a look at the Reggiane Re2000...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 10, 2007)

Added the C-47 for yah.


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## evangilder (Apr 10, 2007)

I guess _I _could have done that!  D'oh!


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## plan_D (Apr 10, 2007)

You knew you could, you just wanted to make a fuss!


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## lesofprimus (Apr 10, 2007)

Primadonnas..... Pfft...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 10, 2007)




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## evangilder (Apr 10, 2007)

Guess I needed more coffee.


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## trackend (Apr 10, 2007)

I have to agree Eric the Dak is probably my favorite of all time with the 707 a fairly close second (probably cause it was the first jet I flew in and I was amazed at the perfomance compared what I was used to)


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Apr 10, 2007)

There aren't any Russian made aircraft in the poll like the Yak, Lavochkin, or Mig-5. 


Probably because they aren't too many people's favorite, including me.


Thanks for putting the Buffalo in!


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## lesofprimus (Apr 10, 2007)

I thought about it, but its very rare that someones fav plane is Russian...

And ur welcome..


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## renrich (Apr 10, 2007)

The F8F did not serve in WW2. re the CW2 Demon there were only about 24 made. It was designed as a bomber interceptor, only weighed about 4250 lbs and had a climb rate at sea level of about 4500 feet/ min. My reference has 4 photos of it and it is a demonic looking a/c. The Vanguard does remind of the Corsair. Especially the empannage.


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## Marcel (Apr 11, 2007)

Civettone said:


> Dag Marcel;
> 
> The nose section of the G.1. caused problems too. ....
> (from: http://www.dutch-aviation.nl/index5/Military/index5-1 G1.html)
> ...



Thanks for the link, Kris! Didn't see this one before. Some nice info.


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## phouse (Apr 13, 2007)

I voted for the Ta-152 but my *real* favorite is the Arsenal VG 33 / Macchi MC 202. They have a very similar design.


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## Gnomey (Apr 13, 2007)

The Spitfire (all marks although in particular the XIV, I and VIII) is probably my favourite although recently I have begun liking the Dora and Ta a lot more...

Oops I voted for the MKXXI when I meant to vote for the MKXIV if it can be changed.


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## machine shop tom (Apr 14, 2007)

I have always liked the P-47. Perhaps I was influenced by the book "Thunderbolt" by Robert Johnson. The sheer power and overwhelming firepower of this plane was just awesome. It could also take an incredible amount of punishment and still bring the pilot back alive. It excelled both as a fighter and a ground-attack aircraft. When the Korean war broke out, the Air Force wanted to use T-Bolts as a ground attack weapon, but had to settle for the vulnerable (for this role) P-51, dooming a lot of pilots to death or capture from ground fire.

tom


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## amrit (Apr 14, 2007)

Beaufighter - excellent aircraft over Burma (as were the Hurribomber and Vultee).


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## Civettone (Apr 14, 2007)

Amrit, did you happen to see a photograph of that Beaufighter on this board a while back?? 

hint hint
Kris


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## amrit (Apr 15, 2007)

Civettone said:


> Amrit, did you happen to see a photograph of that Beaufighter on this board a while back??
> 
> hint hint
> Kris



I saw some great pictures on http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/bristol-beaufighter-2506.html 

Haven't searched the entire site yet - still a newbie checking everything out


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## Wildcat (Apr 15, 2007)

You can also find more pics of Beaufighters I've posted on this thread http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/personal-gallery/wildcats-warbirds-2094.html


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## Lucky13 (Apr 15, 2007)

There's isn't a single machine that I don't like in the poll, but since we only could pick one of them.....Ta 152H-1.
I believe that if the four horsemen of the apocalypse weren't riding those horses, THAT is what they would be flying.... 
   
Adler: I personally think that all the variants of the 109 looks menacing(?), I've always liked the F-4 and the G-6 best though.
Fw 190's great looking as well. I remember that I HATED the Doras when I first saw them, they were ugly. Now, I prefer them almost over the A to F models....go figure.


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## machine shop tom (Apr 15, 2007)

Lucky13 said:


> There's isn't a single machine that I don't like in the poll, but since we only could pick one of them.....Ta 152H-1.
> I believe that if the four horsemen of the apocalypse weren't riding those horses, THAT is what they would be flying....
> 
> Adler: I personally think that all the variants of the 109 looks menacing(?), I've always liked the F-4 and the G-6 best though.
> Fw 190's great looking as well. I remember that I HATED the Doras when I first saw them, they were ugly. Now, I prefer them almost over the A to F models....go figure.



I have a book that has a picture in it of some 109s. The caption mentions the "sinister" looking Messershmitts. I think it is an apt description. 

Think I can find that darn pic???

tom


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## Civettone (Apr 16, 2007)

amrit said:


> I saw some great pictures on http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/bristol-beaufighter-2506.html
> 
> Haven't searched the entire site yet - still a newbie checking everything out


Naah, I was talking about the "plane identification thread". You said you had no idea which my aircraft was. I think you do now! 8)  

Kris


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## black_saint (Apr 25, 2007)

Stuka is the best bird of prey ever made.


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## Jabberwocky (Apr 25, 2007)

Favo*u*rite aircraft of the war? Well, it changes from time to time, but at the moment:

Hawker Typhoon Mk IB, with bubbletop canopy.

For me it is the most aggressive looking of all fighters of the war. A marvelous combination of clean, elegant lines with the soildity of a heavy weight prize fighter to back it up.

Second place goes to the FW-190A series, followed by the MiG-3U, Mosquito and the Spitfire XII.


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## Watanbe (Apr 25, 2007)

I reckon that the British make the coolest planes. The mossie, beaufighter, spitfire and Tempes/Typhoon are awesome. Seeing as Tempest wasnt there I voted beaufighter.


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## Heinz (Apr 25, 2007)

British fighter design was fantastic!

MK IX Spit, really the ultimate machine in Spitfire format.


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## Watanbe (Apr 25, 2007)

I was wondering how would the Spitfire compare to the Mustang in aerial combat.


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## Heinz (Apr 25, 2007)

Spitfire you could through around more and it had Hispano cannons as opposed to the 6 machine guns in Mustang. Mustang fantastic range though its hard call in a lot of respects though.


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## plan_D (Apr 25, 2007)

In 1943, the Spitfire Mk.IX was a superior dogfighter than the P-51Bs and Cs in service. In 1944, the Spitfire Mk.XII and Mk.XIV were superior at their corresponding altitudes than the P-51D/K. And in 1945, you can choose between the Spitfire Mk.XIV, XVIII and F.21 to eat the Mustang...


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## Jabberwocky (Apr 25, 2007)

There were hardly any P-51B/Cs in service in 1943. They didn't fly their first operational sorties until December. Before that the Allison engine Mustangs entered service with 14 RAF squadrons, and were genuinely well liked by thier pilots.

The Allison engined Mustangs were significantly superior to the later variants of Spitfire V and IX in terms of speed at all altitudes below about 16,000 feet. Some variants, with higher rated engines (1500-1600 hp), were capable of about 375 mph at sea level, which is almost as fast as late war monsters such as the Tempest V and FW-109D, and faster than the Spitfire XIV or Bf-109K4, on far less power.

A very clean airframe, backed up by an excellent radiator design and fewer drag blackspots than the Spitfire.

By comparison, Spitfire Vs in 1942-1943 were capable of about 330-335 mph at sea level with a 1,550 hp engine, provided they had clipped wings and a cropped supercharger. Spitfire IXs had a little better performance, although later war models, with higher boost, got up to about 355-360 mph at sea level. 

However, the Mustang's major problem was its rate of climb and relative sluggishness (compared to a Spitfire at least) in the turn. 

With an Allsion engine, the Mustang peaked at about 3,200 feet/minute. On the other hand, Spitfire Vs and IXs were doing between 4,700 and 4,800 ft/minute and sustaining a higher rate of climb for longer. 

So, it comes down to your preferance really: do you want speed to dictate the fight or climb and turn to manouver you into the best firing position? With speed you can run away and come back to play later, while with a more manouverable fighter, you have to outturn, outclimb or outwit your opponent. One is 20-45 mph faster at low alt, or the other is 1,500-1,600 ft/minute better in the climb. 

I'd agree that the Spitfire was certainly a better defensive dogfighter than any model of the P-51, but on the offence, the P-51s range and speed make it the better weapon to go on the offensive with (although it never could of done it without the Spitfire protecting the home fires) even if it isn't as nimble or heavily armed.


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## MAV_406 (Apr 26, 2007)

I like the P-40. 
proberly because of its power and the way the wings arc upwards 8)


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## plan_D (Apr 26, 2007)

That's great, Jabber...but since the Spitfire would be high a lot quicker, and a better performer at altitude ... it rids the Mustang of its speed advantage at sea level, since the Spitfire can dive on the Mustang ...


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## Soren (Apr 26, 2007)

Jabberwocky, besides the fact that the low drag low lift laminar flow wing of the Mustang contributed alot to its speed the extra 300 or so worth HP added by the radiator - giving it in effect 2,080 HP - the speed at SL was no greater than that of the 1,975 HP Bf-109 K-4 which did 607 km/h at SL. And the FW-190 Dora-9 which benefitted from no meredith effect at all did 615 km/h at SL with 2,065 HP.

Although it is clean, the P-51 isn't an extraordinarily clean design.


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## Lucky13 (Apr 26, 2007)

I want a Ta 152H-1 out in the garage.... I wouldn't mind to commute to work then. Would you Soren?
Imagine harrass your colleagues with LOW flyby early in the morning. Standing outside for the first smoke of the day


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## Lucky13 (Apr 26, 2007)

But that I guess works fine with any juicy WWII fighter. Would have a big  in my face, see those wee people running around like scared sheep.


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## Soren (Apr 26, 2007)

If I had a Ta-152H I'd never want go to work again !


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## Lucky13 (Apr 26, 2007)

Fair enough. I'd retire at the ripe ol' age of 38....


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## Jabberwocky (Apr 26, 2007)

Soren said:


> Jabberwocky, besides the fact that the low drag low lift laminar flow wing of the Mustang contributed alot to its speed the extra 300 or so worth HP added by the radiator - giving it in effect 2,080 HP - the speed at SL was no greater than that of the 1,975 HP Bf-109 K-4 which did 607 km/h at SL. And the FW-190 Dora-9 which benefitted from no meredith effect at all did 615 km/h at SL with 2,065 HP.
> 
> Although it is clean, the P-51 isn't an extraordinarily clean design.



Hmmm, P-51A with Allison V-1710-81 rated at 56" and 1400 hp at 0 feet could do 608 kph at sea level. 

Pretty darned impressive for a fighter with 550 hp less horsepower than a 109K or a 190D.

Even if we add your extra 300 hp (Where did that 300 hp figure come from BTW? Seems a little arbitary) it is still almost as fast as a 190D9, on 265 less hp.

I'd call that pretty extraordinary.


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## Soren (Apr 26, 2007)

LoL !  You're kidding right ??

Otherwise would you care to explain exactly how it is the P-51B/C only does ~615 km/h at 75" Hg (1,780 HP @ 3,000 RPM), then Jabberwocky ??

But hey, the P-51A is also a far cleaner design than the P-51B C, right ?? 

PS: I seriously hope you were kidding..


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Apr 26, 2007)

Hawker Typhoon Mk IB, with bubbletop canopy.

Yah, I like that one too.


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## Jabberwocky (Apr 27, 2007)

Soren said:


> LoL !  You're kidding right ??
> 
> Otherwise would you care to explain exactly how it is the P-51B/C only does ~615 km/h at 75" Hg (1,780 HP @ 3,000 RPM), then Jabberwocky ??
> 
> ...



I wasn't kidding, and neither were the USAAF, apparently:


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## Soren (Apr 27, 2007)

Doesn't explain why the P-51B and C are slower at 75" Hg however Jabberwocky....

But I've got an explanation; The speed wasn't accurately measured.

Or do you have a better explanation Jabberwocky ?


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## Jabberwocky (Apr 28, 2007)

So, when in doubt, or faced with contrary evidence to your theory, you question the validity/reliability of the official numbers? 

Seems to me that is a particularly steep and dangerous slope. ANY official tests from ANY participants could then be simply dismissed out of hand. Perhaps all the P-51B/C tests were incorrect and its actually faster than official numbers indicate?  

Or do we instead trust that the USAAF knew what it was doing when it tested its own aircraft?

How about that the P-51A WAS a cleaner design with the Allison than with the Merlin, which it was not originally designed for.

Other testing seems to indicate agreement with the USAAF figures: 

P-51 No. 41-37320 with 4 cannon tested on 20-Jul-1943 achieved 360 mph at sea-level with Allison V-1710-39 rated at 1170 hp.

Its not a stretch then that a further 250 hp would add another 18 mph, particularly on a P-51A-1 which was fitted with machine guns instead of cannon and had slightly less drag. Its hardly suprising that a 21.5% increase in power could generate a 5% increase in level speed.


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