# Is this picture a BF 109 G10?



## Wildsau (Nov 3, 2019)

Ok I know there is little difference between the G6, G10 and G14 But I'm guessing this is a G10, (likely the AS variant from the engine cover) because of the tall tail wheel. Am I correct?


----------



## Crimea_River (Nov 3, 2019)

G-10s can have short or tall tail wheels. Need to look deeper in my references to answer better but am pressed fro time. Try this The 109 Lair- The Online Source for Messerschmitt 109 information


----------



## Wildsau (Nov 5, 2019)

I have another question does anyone know what the colour of the rudder and bottom of the engine cover is. They don't look the same as the rest of the plane. I'm thinking it's white or possibly rlm84. There's is another plane white 43 from NJG 11 that has a white rudder. Could this be likely in 1945?


----------



## GrauGeist (Nov 5, 2019)

Wildsau said:


> I have another question does anyone know what the colour of the rudder and bottom of the engine cover is. They don't look the same as the rest of the plane. I'm thinking it's white or possibly rlm84. There's is another plane white 43 from NJG 11 that has a white rudder. Could this be likely in 1945?


More than likely the chin and rudder are yellow.
Look at the White on the spinner and Balkankruz (on the fuselage) and it has a higher contrast in comparison.


----------



## Wildsau (Nov 5, 2019)

Yes good point. What seems evident is that these planes were often repainted if only slightly for instance there are photos of white 43 with a white rudder or a rlm76 or rlm78 which matched the rest of the plane. The single colour being more common.


----------



## Wurger (Nov 5, 2019)

The White 43 had neither the rudder nor the bottom of the engine cowling white . It was of the RLM76 overall. The misleading idea of the white rudder was taken because of the very ligh tone of the rudder in the first pic below. IMHO it is the light trick because of the sunlight , fabric skin of the rudder. paint fading and the angle of it that was slightly turned left. The same effect can be noticed on the lowered down starboard flap. The lighter appearance of the bottom part of the engine cowling was caused by overheating , dirt, the angle of the sunlight and shadow coming together. For the same reason the kite in the pic of the post #1 looks the same.




















the pic source: the Internet.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Informative Informative:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## Wildsau (Nov 5, 2019)

Ok got it, thanks for the clarification Wurger.


----------



## Crimea_River (Nov 5, 2019)

The 130 XXX W. Nr. block makes it a Regensburg produced G-10 with a DB605 D engine (not AS).

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## stona (Nov 5, 2019)

As above, this is a G-10 W.Nr. 130396 (Mtt Reg.)

It is probably and aircraft of II./NJG 11 based at Juterborg-Waldlager in early 1945. Note the flame dampers on the exhausts.

It was finished in overall RLM 76 as someone else has already noted.

This aircraft and another G-10, marked 44, W.Nr. 130342, were captured by the Allies at Fassburg in April 1945.

Edit: The deeper oil cooler housing (for the Fo 987 cooler) is a good clue that this aircraft had a 605 D installed. It's not a golden rule as some G-10/AS and even G-14/AS also had the deeper cooler, but it's a good pointer. The G-10 always got MW 50 with the 605 D, making it technically a 605 DM. Clearly visible on this aircraft are the little fairings (they were on both sides) on the hinged lower engine panel, just in front of the first exhaust. They covered the slightly enlarged crank case and oil return lines.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## GrauGeist (Nov 5, 2019)

Something else I noticed in the OP photo, are the "Whitehall" tires on the maingear. Typically, those were used in Afrika...interesting to see them in use so late in the war.


----------



## stona (Nov 5, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> Something else I noticed in the OP photo, are the "Whitehall" tires on the maingear. Typically, those were used in Afrika...interesting to see them in use so late in the war.



Are you sure?
I'm not seeing them


----------



## Snautzer01 (Nov 5, 2019)

Get your glasses then  1 st pic 1 st post


----------



## stona (Nov 5, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Get your glasses then  1 st pic 1 st post



Didn't look at that one! Two different aircraft.


----------



## Airframes (Nov 5, 2019)

The first pic in the OP appears to be a different aircraft. 
Spinner spiral seems different, white wall tyres, antennae under the wing, and the number on the fuselage appears to be a '3' or'7'.


----------



## Crimea_River (Nov 5, 2019)

Ah yes we got off track. Somebody said White 43 and then a bunch of pictures showed and the latter is what I referred to in my post.

Not sure the tires are whitewalls. I'd suggest mud stains.


----------



## Wurger (Nov 5, 2019)

stona said:


> Two different aircraft.




I agree. The "White 43" has the oil sump cover with a small blister at the front of the bottom engine cowling just below the front of the exhaust pipes. This indicates the DB 605D engine. The Bf 109 of the post #1 doesn't have that one there what indicates the DB 605A power plant. It's possible the plane was a Bf 109G-6/AS or G-14. Also there is a difference in location of the oil filler caps. The lower position of the hatch indicates the AS engined aircraft.


----------



## Wurger (Nov 5, 2019)

IMHO I found it .... it is the Bf 109G-6/AS/N propably belonged to the 4./NJG 11. The plane had the FuG 217J Neptun device installed. The antennas of the device can be seen on the fuselage, in front of the radiator air intake and wing undersides And I agree with Terry propably that's the "White 7".


----------



## stona (Nov 5, 2019)

If it is 'White 44' W.Nr. 130342 then it would be a G-10 and should have the D series engine.
I agree that this does not seem to be the engine fitted to that aircraft.

There were some G-10s built with the ASM engine by Erla (49xxxx) but then the supposed W.Nr. doesn't fit.


----------



## GrauGeist (Nov 5, 2019)

Crimea_River said:


> ..Not sure the tires are whitewalls. I'd suggest mud stains.


I considered that, but looking closely, they appear to be the Tropical issue whitewall type.


----------



## stona (Nov 5, 2019)

Wurger said:


> IMHO I found it .... it is the Bf 109G-6/AS/N propably belonged to the 4./NJG 11. The plane had the FuG 217J Neptun device installed. The antennas of the device can be seen on the fuselage, in front of the radiator air intake and wing undersides And I agree with Terry propably that's the "White 7".



That's a good call on the evidence available.
I can see the deeper oil cooler of a late production/conversion aircraft, which fits with the camouflage, and is that a G-10 style supercharger intake? Various other filler caps and intakes all look to be in the right places.

I think that the foremost of three antennae is also just about visible on the opened panel in front of the windscreen. They should be there in a FuG 217 installation.

I'll take Terry's word for 'White 7', it's not one I'm aware of. A W.Nr. would be great, any aircraft like this could have an interesting history.


----------



## Crimea_River (Nov 5, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> I considered that, but looking closely, they appear to be the Tropical issue whitewall type.



It's the closer look that caused me to think it's mud. Very rough edges plus there is mud in the tread. But anyway, this is not the subject of this thread.


----------



## Wildsau (Nov 5, 2019)

Airframes said:


> The first pic in the OP appears to be a different aircraft.
> Spinner spiral seems different, whitewall tyres, antennae under the wing, and the number on the fuselage appears to be a '3' or'7'.


yes they are different my pic is of white 7 which flew with NJG 10 the white 43 although similar did not use Fug radar and flew in NJG 11.

Edit: there are different sources on the net that have it in NJ10, I'm not so sure which it is, it's a hard one to definitively prove.


----------



## Wildsau (Nov 6, 2019)

stona said:


> That's a good call on the evidence available.
> I can see the deeper oil cooler of a late production/conversion aircraft, which fits with the camouflage, and is that a G-10 style supercharger intake? Various other filler caps and intakes all look to be in the right places.
> 
> I think that the foremost of three antennae is also just about visible on the opened panel in front of the windscreen. They should be there in a FuG 217 installation.
> ...


stona, there are no antenna on the top front, these Fug 217 installs were done in varies ways as they were testing different positions on the a/c the white 7 had them on the bottom, I still need to confirm that there were also 3 antenna on the rear of the fueselage whether on top or bottom is yet to be confirmed. I thought saw another pic of this plane side profile that showed this clearly. I'll look around again.


----------



## mike_cyul (Nov 7, 2019)

I think it's the first time that I see a small window opening in the main canopy (on 43).


----------



## Spielmann (Nov 7, 2019)

Hello guys,

It's undoubtfully a G-6/AS/N surely modified by *Erla-Antwerpen*, *Mimetall or Blohm u. Voss.*
First clue is the retrofitted Erla haube with the antenna mast *on* the fuselage and the original lockink device of the canopy. 
Second clue : the engine because of the *lower location* of oil filling hatch is a DB 605 AS/ASM (M = MW50).
But this airplane is very special hence the deicing device as on Erla and WNF G-10s.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Informative Informative:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Wildsau (Nov 10, 2019)

Is there definative proof that this plane is white 7?


----------



## SuperAereo (Nov 15, 2019)

The oil cap filler only indicates what type of oil tank was installed: a bigger oil tank would still work well with both AS and D engines.


----------

