# About model building ranks...



## Nxthanos (Oct 18, 2011)

As I take part in my second build, I find it slightly bothers me that i must call myself 'beginner' as a catigory because i don't feel i have the skills or really the money to buy fancy extra market parts and items that many other folks can. I simply can't afford a compressor, resin and brass, photo etch, large numbers of different paints and so forth that being an 'expert' entails.

Could we change the lowest rank to something else, like perhaps 'casual' rather then 'beginner'?

I started making kits in 1968, I'm hardly just getting started.

I understand if this bothers nobody else, just something to consider.


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## rochie (Oct 18, 2011)

for what its worth i dont use after market parts and dont have an airbrush either, but its not important what you use in the group builds its just for fun and i think the sharing of info and tips to improve are by far the most valuable part of the builds.

why dont you enter as an intermediate next time, i did the same as i felt i was too good for beginner but worried at first when looking at the other guys work in the next catagory but as said in the end it is just for fun


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## N4521U (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm with Karl.
Means nothing what kind of equipment one has. I must confess I do get the aftermarket stuff, but only because I do work part time and use some of these fund to support my "addiction". 

I admire the builders in here who can produce some dyno-mite work out of the box. I enter in the intermediate for the same reason, been building for years, but never had the inclination to build Beter, till I got mixed up with this crowd. They make you want to be a better builder. And, they keep helping us to build better!

Keep building, keep entering!


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## Airframes (Oct 18, 2011)

As Karl states, what is used, in the way of tools, accessories etc, has little to do with the categories. It is the finished result which more or less governs the category selected by the entrant. One could add every conceivable piece of PE, resin, white metal and scratch-built part to a kit, paint it with the most expensive airbrush and compressor, and still end up with a finished model the appearance and finish of which would be expected from a novice rather than a 'master modeller'.
The categories in the Group Builds are actually numbered, with Cat 1 being the 'expert' or 'master' level, but it is the choice of the *entrant* which catagory he or she enters in. My own personal choice of category for my own modelling would probably be intermediate (Cat2), possibly Cat 1, and it's only relatively recently that I started using an air brush properly, and then only around 40 - 50% of the time, with all other work, including some mottle finishes, being done with a paint brush.
In 50 years of modelling, I haven't used after market accessories of any type, with the exception of the odd set of resin wheels if really needed,and some decals, but I do often scratch-build parts.
The 'Category System' employed for the GBs on the forum is based on those used for judging in IPMS competitions, hence the 'title' for each category, which is for guidance only.
Bottom line, the category is the personal choice and opinion of the entrant, and what is used to produce a finished model should not be the deciding factor, rather it should be the skills which allow a model to be classed, by others and judges, as representative of the category in which it has been entered.


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## Wayne Little (Oct 18, 2011)

Well said gentlemen! 

We DO understand your reasoning, if you wish class yourself in your build threads as simply Category 3 'Casual Long time modeller' we will completely understand your position, no matter what your status, please enjoy, have fun, learn and in turn pass on some of the things you have learned in your modelling life! 
We are all here to encourage and support each other in the best way we can....happy modelling!


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## Nxthanos (Oct 18, 2011)

Not looking to make waves, but 'beginner' is insulting and lets face it, a lot of the expert builds have large chunks of very expensive extras.

Its one thing to do scratch, its another to buy prepainted and preformed parts like instrament panels, seat belts and the like, and still a third to have 10 different kinds of paint to do 'slight' weathering and details and to buy pre-cut masks for canopies and so on. I love the brillaint results these items get, they look fantastic. But they are also beyound the means of myself, and probaly other folks as well.

Besides i'm old, people expect me to be cantanerous.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Wayne Little (Oct 18, 2011)

Nxthanos said:


> Besides i'm old, people expect me to be cantanerous. Just my 2 cents.



No worries mate!


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## Njaco (Oct 18, 2011)

"pleeb"

I've always thought that it was my perception of my experience as to what category I'm in. Haven't done a GB in awhile - really need to do another - but because I somewhat, maybe, occasionally know what I'm doing, I do Cat 2. I never use aftermarket, don't own an arbrush and have to wait unil dinner is done to use my workbench.


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## rochie (Oct 18, 2011)

Nxthanos said:


> Not looking to make waves, but 'beginner' is insulting and lets face it, a lot of the expert builds have large chunks of very expensive extras.
> 
> Its one thing to do scratch, its another to buy prepainted and preformed parts like instrament panels, seat belts and the like, and still a third to have 10 different kinds of paint to do 'slight' weathering and details and to buy pre-cut masks for canopies and so on. I love the brillaint results these items get, they look fantastic. But they are also beyound the means of myself, and probaly other folks as well.
> 
> ...



you asked a valid question my friend, my opinion is enter Cat2 intermediate and dont worry about it and just have a bit of fun joining in

Karl


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## Wurger (Oct 18, 2011)

I have to agree with all above and I don't think so the "beginner" rank is something insulting. Just it's something that can help judges to rate of modeller's work.
So , don't worry and follow Karl's suggestion.It's a very good idea.


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## Crimea_River (Oct 18, 2011)

I can only agree with my fellow zoo mates.


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## mikewint (Oct 18, 2011)

Agreed, and Airframes, if you are a Cat 2 then my rank is Cat -20. I do have an airbrush but that is just because I can't brush worth a da*m. Plus there are really great deals on ebay and I got mine for about $50 and it was brand new. So I guess, don't let a title or category turn you off. Decide how you want your model judged. My experience here is that the judges are NOT impressed by fancy gizzmos attached to the basic model. I never did detailing/weathering until several members took me under their wing and VERY patiently explained how to. Surprisingly very little was required and those few additions made a world of difference in how the final model turned out. So enjoy yourself and if you want to improve/learn THIS is the place to do so


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## Nxthanos (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm like Luke, a natural born world shaker.


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## DBII (Oct 18, 2011)

"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

DBII


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## Rogi (Oct 18, 2011)

Can't we just get the judges to decide if they should switch someone to another group if the skill level is more or less than what is listed in their application?


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## N4521U (Oct 19, 2011)

As far as I know, there is no "means" requirement. 

I been thinkin,...................... honest!

Perhaps someone like Wayne could post the judging check list judges use in competitions. Things like seam filling, alignments, decals application.... all them little things judges look for. Just as some kind of a hint as to what makes a real first place build. This will give all newbes an idea of what to do to improve. 

I think if one were to look back at the "winners", as we are all winners just to submit, you would see it takes more than little shiny things added to win. My first entry was a 1/72 Bolton Paul Reliant, had all that stuff, didn't "win" but I leaned more with that build than I had in the last @%$ years.

Just a thought.


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## Nxthanos (Oct 19, 2011)

N4521U said:


> My first entry was a 1/72 Bolton Paul Reliant,


Maybe if it was a defiant, things could have gone better!


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## N4521U (Oct 19, 2011)

Sh!t.


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## Njaco (Oct 19, 2011)




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## Crimea_River (Oct 19, 2011)

Guys, the judging is based on general construction (seams, alignment of parts, etc....), paint finish, decal application/placement, and overall appearance/appeal. Max 10 points for construction, 5 for the others.


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## DBII (Oct 19, 2011)

Beginners and Casual Long Time Builders (CLTB) grab a beer and unite. Together we can other throw the repressive judges.... I have a good time in the GBs. Just take a look at my first GB, the famous blue B-17 from the Pacific GB and my GO 242 from my 2nd GB, Big improvement and all a result of help from the group. Have fun and enjoy the build.

DBII


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## Airframes (Oct 19, 2011)

Andy (Crimea River) has described exactly what is looked at, and it's as simple as that - not that the judging is simple!
The decision on which Category to enter is purely down to the entrant, although if we judges feel an individual should consider moving up to the next Category, we may suggest it. But the final decision is still with the entrant, we can not, and will not, automatically move an entrant's category. 
A little tip to perhaps improve, or build on skills (pun not intended!) is to look at the four areas, described by Andy, used in judging, and treat these as individual stages of the build. Attention to detail in the construction stage - that is, alignment of parts, seams and joints etc, not extra detail added - sets the measure for the rest of the build. 
The application of paint to the best of the individual's ability takes things to the next stage, etc etc.
All of these contribute to the final appearance and visual appeal of the finished model. 
It's pointless having the most detailed cockpit, right down to a tiny map in a wallet, if the overall finished model looks like it's been painted with a trowel, over lumps, bumps and visible seams, and the decals are all wrinkled and mis-aligned, for example.
Hope this helps.


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## Crimea_River (Oct 19, 2011)

Well said Terry, and I'd like to point out that there are some truly excellent results that can be achieved using hairy sticks as opposed to air brushes. A nicely brush painted model will earn better marks than a poorly airbrushed one, at least in my books.


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## N4521U (Oct 19, 2011)

Terry and Andy just said what I was trying to get across. Blast.


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## Wurger (Oct 20, 2011)

I think all was said here. Terry and Andy have hit the nail.


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## N4521U (Oct 21, 2011)

So.................

Fill them seams!


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## Wurger (Oct 21, 2011)

Of course. There is nothing worse like a model with all seams seen. About a bad geometry of a model I don't mention at all.


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## mikewint (Oct 21, 2011)

Getting all the seams to allign on a plastic model is the impossible dream so somewhere along the line out comes the filler putty and the sanding and the refilling and the resanding. it's a PIA but is surely pays-off in the looks of the final model. The second thing for me was learning to use an airbrush. I can't brush worth a da*n so airbrushing was a godsend. next came simple detailing tips supplied by forum members like using a pencil to outline panel lines. Next came using Finish to give a smooth surface for the decals and (another godsend) learning about Microsol to make the decal conform to panel-lines, rivets, etc. Lastly the final coat, on military models I use a 50-50 flat clear acrylic and Future. 
The look of my models has improved 1000% and it is all due to very, very patient forum members who held my hand through the entire process


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## N4521U (Oct 21, 2011)

And God knows, holding the hand of someone with one of them things on his teeth...

Ditto from me!


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