# Diesel or Petrol engines?



## SINKA (Mar 9, 2004)

which is better.......


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## kiwimac (Mar 9, 2004)

Depends on where you use them.

Kiwimac


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## SINKA (Mar 9, 2004)

in a plane....


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## aussie jim (Mar 9, 2004)

I know i really shouldnt reply to this thread  but..in a plane its petrol inline 12 cylinders or v12s and v16s are the go or even radials.Diesels are more for your "what is a tank "thread


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## Hot Space (Mar 9, 2004)

The Ju 86P ran on Diesel Engines and was use on High Level Recon Mission over England during the War 8) 

Hot Space


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## kiwimac (Mar 9, 2004)

Yup, the JU86 (especially the High Altitutde Recon version,) did indeed use diesels. Diesels are NOT as affected by air pressure as Petrol engines and they will run on just about anything!

As well the Aero diesels were both well-designed and very efficient.

Fuhrer von Spam Kiwimac


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 10, 2004)

me and C.C always have this argument, for me it's diesil


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## kiwimac (Mar 10, 2004)

I like the Diesel's too!

FVS Kiwimac


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 10, 2004)

diesel i just another word for "crap" 8) petrols are better, end of story 8)


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## SINKA (Mar 11, 2004)

lovely  so i still dont know


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## R Pope (Mar 11, 2004)

"deisels aren't affected by air pressure"? Try pulling a B-train over the Great Divide without a turbo!


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## kiwimac (Mar 11, 2004)

PLEASE!

There is quite a difference between hauling a bloody great train over the mountains and taking a plane up to 40 or 50 000 feet. Apart from any other consideration the train's weight is measured in tens, if not thousands, of kilotonnes, while the plane is likely to be in the 5k to 13k range.

Indeed the aero-engine industry has continued to consider and develop diesel aero-engines since the mid 1930's. Diesel's have a better power-to-weight ratio than petrols and, unlike petrol engines, you can run them on just about anything.

FVS Kiwimac


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 11, 2004)

> Diesel's have a better power-to-weight ratio



my arse  diesels are much heavier than petrols and they're only slightly more powerful  (btw, im going on my exhaustive knowledge of the car industry) 8)


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## kiwimac (Mar 11, 2004)

Ya hadda make me do it, did'nya!

From the _The Engineer_ 6 August 1999



> The Engineer 6 August 1999
> 
> "Diesel in demand"
> 
> ...



From _Today's Pilot_ July 2001



> Today?s Pilot July 2001
> 
> "Aero-Diesels"
> 
> ...



Kiwimac


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 11, 2004)

i cant be bothered to read that


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 11, 2004)

il read that when im bored sometime 8) i dont need convincing, petrol is better 8)


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 11, 2004)

me neither! o and sry for calling you and the lanc right ol' tea leaves... it isnt posted here but my friend asked y i kept signing on and off of msn and i said i was trying to add two british guys and i said u guys were right ol' tea leaves because i didnt know what it meant, but its fun to say!
p.s. if u get an add contact request from [email protected], its me

Reichsmarschall Batista


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 12, 2004)

so you keep saying..................................


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 12, 2004)

tea leaf 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 13, 2004)

two bob bit face.............................


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 14, 2004)

plastic vicar 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 14, 2004)

we could be here a while...........................


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 21, 2004)

plastic vicar????

Reichsmarschall Batista


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 21, 2004)

elbow head, bum eyes  ooooo im harsh....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 21, 2004)

only on the eyes C.C., only on the eye's.........................


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## Vegafox (Mar 21, 2004)

Diesel engine? 
That`s diesel engine... 


















Yermolayev (Yer - 2)

Year - 1940

Crew - 4 

Build - 128 in petrol variant, about 300 - in diesel variant

Engine - M-105 (petrol), ACh - 30B (diesel)

Speed max (6000 m) - 420 km\h

Wearpon - 1 ShVAK 20mm cannon
1 UBT 7,62 mashinegun
1 UBS 7,62 mashinegun
1000 kg - bomb`s


That`s planes bOOOom!!! bing Berlin in 1941...


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 22, 2004)

you like russian planes, dont you  nothing wrong with them mind you 8) oh yeah, welcome to the site btw 8)


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## jj1982 (Mar 22, 2004)

well....i know absoultly zero about aircraft engines.....however...i prefer diesels in motor cars....so i reckon they could do well in an aircraft!


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## Vegafox (Mar 22, 2004)

> you like russian planes



Yeah....  I`m really LIKE russian planes...  



> oh yeah, welcome to the site



Thx. 8)


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## jj1982 (Mar 23, 2004)




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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 23, 2004)

c.c how about pming me the translations to some of this rhyming slang?

Reichsmarschall Batista


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## jj1982 (Mar 24, 2004)

its quite easy to get the hang off....Gawdon Bennet! dis is 'ow yew speak proper english wiv da use ov David 'ockney rhymin' Micheal Chang. OK?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 24, 2004)

sommit tells me you're NOT a cockney?????


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## jj1982 (Mar 24, 2004)

Gawdon Bennet! well, perhaps dis is true...but i 'ave lived in sowf london fer most my years....except a brief stin' in Cornwall ov caaahrse. OK?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 24, 2004)

no................


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## jj1982 (Mar 24, 2004)

yep afraid so....


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## jj1982 (Mar 24, 2004)

i do a lovely rendition of "i've got a brand new ombine harvester"


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 24, 2004)

jj1982 - im cockney through and through and i can spot a fake 8) and you my friend, are a fake....


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## jj1982 (Mar 24, 2004)

your a cockney????well how come it says weston super mare i=on your profile????


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 24, 2004)

cos my girlfriend lives there 8) im a cockney that lives in cornwall.....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 11, 2004)

and believe it or not,i'm part cockney to.................


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 16, 2004)

yeah the lanc is - his accent aint cornish enough 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 16, 2004)

cos i aint cornish through an through.................


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## kiwimac (Apr 17, 2004)

My old Greatgrandma was cockney!

Close as we get in the colonies!

Kiwimac


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 17, 2004)

this is where tounge out smiley would come in usefull...................


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 19, 2004)

yup, but instead we have this


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 19, 2004)

not good enough....................


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 19, 2004)

nope 8) anyway, petrol engines are better


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 23, 2004)

no they're not, a diesel may be a bit louder, but it's cheaper *mmmmm, red diesel...........*


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 28, 2004)

thats very vegetarian, all the criteria possible and you say its better cos its cheaper  no, petrol is better because its easier to get more performance from a smaller engline and theyre lighter.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 28, 2004)

but a diesil's more powerfull, they're just not used thet much 'cos, like you say, they're cheaper................


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 29, 2004)

not more powerful, less powerful 8) if youre talking about torque (no pun intended) then youre right, diesels have more torque. but torque only comes into its own at low revs and torquey engines are usually used for pulling. if were are talking about which type of engines is better for planes, the petrol wins easily. with other machines though, the debate is wide open 8) (my heart stays with petrol  )


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 29, 2004)

as a farmer, I'm gonna stick with diesil..........


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## cheddar cheese (May 1, 2004)

as a racing thoroughbred im sticking with petrol 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 2, 2004)

what, you mean to say you've never raced a diesel? why not...............


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## cheddar cheese (May 2, 2004)

because they have crap acceleration, they take ages to get up to speed, especially if you have a turbo diesel, and because of the weight of the engine it puts a lot of pressure on the front axle and causes monumental understeer


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 2, 2004)

but it's better in a race where you have to tow a caravan...............


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## cheddar cheese (May 2, 2004)

but people who set out to win caravan bangers must be pretty dumb - caravanning is purely for the entertainment of the crowd, if you win its just a bonus 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 2, 2004)

but honestly, who tows a caravan with a petrol?...............


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## cheddar cheese (May 2, 2004)

i would, i vow never to own a diesel vehicle in my life 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 2, 2004)

and why not, the T-34 had a diesel, it was one of the best tanks of the war and the cold didn't slow it atall, unlike the germans tanks..................


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## cheddar cheese (May 2, 2004)

yes but tanks werent exactly designed for acceleration speed or handling


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 2, 2004)

no, but could you imagine a petrol tank, it coulod barley move through lack of tourque.................


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## cheddar cheese (May 2, 2004)

petrol engines do have a lot of torque - take the bentey continental gt 8) bentley were unable to measure it cos it kept breaking the machine 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 2, 2004)

yes, a bently tank, it would be couvered in leather, aerodynamic, no gun as it would look ugly................


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## cheddar cheese (May 2, 2004)

all bentleys are tanks anyway  i wasnt intending if they were to make a tank, i was just using its engine as an example of how petrol engines can have high torque 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 2, 2004)

but not as high as a diesil...................


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## cheddar cheese (May 2, 2004)

yup - some petrol engines have just as much torque, some even more 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 2, 2004)

so why is it you never hear of a petrol tractor..............


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## cheddar cheese (May 2, 2004)

diesels are generally more reliable and are easier to maintain 8) unless you get a big block chevy v8 -easiet and most simple engine ever 8)


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## kiwimac (May 2, 2004)

There are many, many petrol tractors! 

Kiwimac


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## GermansRGeniuses (May 2, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> petrol engines do have a lot of torque - take the bentey continental gt 8) bentley were unable to measure it cos it kept breaking the machine 8)


 doesnt that ugly heap o' crap have 580ft/lb or something like that of torque?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 2, 2004)

> There are many, many petrol tractors!



i've never seen a petrol tractor in my life!!!!!!!


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## cheddar cheese (May 3, 2004)

GermansRGeniuses said:


> cheddar cheese said:
> 
> 
> > petrol engines do have a lot of torque - take the bentey continental gt 8) bentley were unable to measure it cos it kept breaking the machine 8)
> ...



i think its over 600  and i wouldnt say it was ugly, just "overweight"


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 3, 2004)

you see, and that was with a petrol, if it was a diesil, it would be as light as a feather................


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## cheddar cheese (May 3, 2004)

it wouldnt  ind im talking overweight as in styling  though the bentley is very heavy 8) and somehow i dont think bentley would use a diesel, british manufacturers tend to avoid oil burners


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 5, 2004)

ha! i've never seen a oil burner powered car...........


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## cheddar cheese (May 5, 2004)

oil burner = what traders call diesels 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 8, 2004)

ah! i see, you could have told me that, i saw the strangest think today diesil's 1p more expensive than petrol..........


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## cheddar cheese (May 10, 2004)

i know  the only way to save money in a diesel is to run it for a good few years, as the majority of diesel cars cost a couple of hundred £ more than thier petrol equivalent 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 11, 2004)

we get our petrol straight from the company, we get it cheaper that way............


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## cheddar cheese (May 11, 2004)

you mean red diesel?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 14, 2004)

of course not ....................


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## cheddar cheese (May 14, 2004)

cos you know its illegal to use red diesel on the road...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 16, 2004)

ah, not if you're within 10 miles of your land................


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## kiwimac (May 16, 2004)

In NZ Diesel is still under half the price of petrol per litre.

However, Diesel engines in aircraft, there was the JU 86 and as well this beastie









> Technical data (BV 138C-1)
> 
> Type: Long-range Maritime Reconnaissance Flying Boat
> 
> ...



Kiwimac


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## cheddar cheese (May 16, 2004)

2-stroke, haha


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 16, 2004)

> maximum endurance: 18 hrs



wow, the crew would need to stop before the plane!!!!!


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## cheddar cheese (May 16, 2004)

ok if that was a joke it went right over my head...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 16, 2004)

it wasn't a joke, endurance means how long it can stay in the air, the crew would need to stop before the plane...............


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## cheddar cheese (May 16, 2004)

im lost


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 16, 2004)

ok, a plane's endurance is how long it can stay in the air non-stop, this planes endurance is 18 hours, that means it can fly for 18 hours non-stop, the crew however wouldn't have been able to fly for 18, they would have to stop and land of they would fall asleep "at the weel", thus they would have to stop before the plane................


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## cheddar cheese (May 16, 2004)

ah...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 16, 2004)

you still don't get it do you??


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## cheddar cheese (May 16, 2004)

yep 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 16, 2004)

back on topic, diesel's better...................


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## cheddar cheese (May 16, 2004)

weve already had the arument and agreed that petrol is better for planes whereas the diesel and petrol are pretty much even in the automotive world 8)


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## plan_D (May 17, 2004)

Lanc, the crew wouldn't have had to stop, for a start 18 hours would mean 9 hours out and 9 hours coming home, in theory. So, you would either change crew, or they would just fly for 18 hours. You can stay awake for 18 hours quite easily, as on average you stay up 16 hours a day anyway. 
The Tu-95 'Bear' had an endurance of over a day if I remember correctly, and some of their missions from Russia to probe British air space lasted over 20 hours.


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## Lightning Guy (May 17, 2004)

All of the modern American heavies have demonstrated an ability to fly around the world thanks to airborne refueling. The only limiting factors being crew endurance and oil.


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## plan_D (May 17, 2004)

Yes but the endurance of a plane is without air to air. The Tu-95 is still one of the best planes in the world, and is still the fastest turbo-prop aircraft.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 22, 2004)

> You can stay awake for 18 hours quite easily, as on average you stay up 16 hours a day anyway.



yes but you're not trying to fly a plane for that long are you? fatigue would soon take it's toll.............


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## cheddar cheese (May 24, 2004)

couldnt the crew work shifts?


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## Lightning Guy (May 24, 2004)

To minimize crew fatigue it is important that they have room to move, relax, or even nap. The B-36 was big enough (and design for missions long enough) that it could carry a second crew and feature a berthing area and galley.


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## plan_D (May 25, 2004)

Most likely a crew change would be used, or more simply the co-pilot stays on while the pilot rests. Aircraft aren't hard to fly anymore.


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## Lightning Guy (May 25, 2004)

No they're not. And the seats have become more comfortable as well.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 26, 2004)

yes but we're talking about a WWII plane, not as modern or big as the B-36................


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## plan_D (May 27, 2004)

What's the WWII plane that has the endurance of 18 hours? Even then the B-36 isn't modern, it isn't modern at all. The B-36 would have still required a lot of concentration, that's not to say the planes nowadays don't. 
The B-36 was almost a World War 2 design anyway.


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## Lightning Guy (May 27, 2004)

The B-36 program actually began in 1941 and made its first flight Aug. of 1946. As far as the technology involved it was for all intents and purpose a WWII desgin.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 27, 2004)

if you go back a few pages it kiwimac's posted stats for a german recon plane................


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## plan_D (May 28, 2004)

That's maximum endurance 18 hours, in that case the pilot would rest while the co-pilot would fly. If there was any problems he'd call in the resting one...


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## cheddar cheese (May 28, 2004)

or bail out and leave the pilot to die


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 28, 2004)

it doesn't actually say the number of crew though....................


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## cheddar cheese (May 28, 2004)

well i doubt its 1...


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## plan_D (May 29, 2004)

If it's a maritime recce plane most likely it'll have a crew of two, at least.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 29, 2004)

looking at the armourment it would need quite a few gunners..............


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 11, 2004)

Petrol is much, much better than Diesel. 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 11, 2004)

i beg to differ.................


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 11, 2004)

beg declined.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 12, 2004)

it wasn't a invitation...................


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 12, 2004)

well it is now.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 12, 2004)

i don't belive you have the authority to made that choise.............


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 12, 2004)

more authority than you


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 12, 2004)

i fail to see how as it should be my chiose...............


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 12, 2004)

im am of higher status than you


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 12, 2004)

we have a bigger house..............


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 12, 2004)

im taller...and i have a stable long-term relationship


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 13, 2004)

you're older, which means you'll die before me..............


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## cheddar cheese (Jun 13, 2004)

er, how?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 14, 2004)

it's like sooooooooooo obvious................


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