# Fire in California



## syscom3 (Oct 21, 2007)

Heres a pic I took from my street, of the "Silverado Canyon" fire, In Orange county. 

Its about 6 - 8 miles from me. Its burning to the SW, so I am not in its path. 

The fire was only 15 minutes old when i snapped the pic.

Sustained winds of 15 - 20 mph, with gusts up to 40 mph are occuring right now (8:31pm). Note the palm tree thats being blown.

The fire is still out of control, and expanding rapidly, although it hasnt hit any housing developements as of yet.


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## syscom3 (Oct 21, 2007)

UPDATE....

The fire front is moving into a community in Irvine.

The fire depts have said they're going to make a stand on this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The flame front is at least 1/4 to 1/2 mile long with flames up to 20 feet!!!!!

*GOOD LUCK AND STAY SAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *


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## Erich (Oct 21, 2007)

move your butt out in a moments notice sys. I know what that crap can do in the wind and the wind can take a different direction any time and engulf everything in moments. My brother wrote me earlier from San Marcos and said the winds are really drying and bad at over 50 mph at times, 80-90F temps to add to the problem.............

E ~


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## syscom3 (Oct 22, 2007)

We are getting some strong gusts right now.

50 mph would not be an understatement.

For those that have never experienced these "devil winds"... They are *hot and very very dry*. Like standing under a giant hair dryer.

The biggest and most dangerous aspect of the winds, is they can carry burning embers for thousands of yards and start fires in a haphazard pattern.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 22, 2007)

Get your ass out of there and stay safe whenever you have to mate....!


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## Screaming Eagle (Oct 22, 2007)

I'm with lucky, stay safe sys.


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## FLYBOYJ (Oct 22, 2007)

Good luck Sys - another memory I have of California, the good ole Santa Anas...


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## evangilder (Oct 22, 2007)

I've been living in the smoke from thePiru fire for the last 2 days. Smoke, thick and heavy with raining ash. It's been like living in a campfire these last 2 days. High 80s-90s for temp, plus single digit humidity and winds have gusted as high as 83! This has been the worst fire season I have seen in my 20 years here.


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## pbfoot (Oct 22, 2007)

Do they have any Cl215 or 415 purpose built water bombers there ?


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## syscom3 (Oct 22, 2007)

pbfoot said:


> Do they have any Cl215 or 415 purpose built water bombers there ?



Yes they do!


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## pbfoot (Oct 22, 2007)

I checked and they are leasing them from Quebec but the Airtanker guys are lobbying against them as they are foreign
CL-415s IN LOS ANGELES COUNTY


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## Aussie1001 (Oct 22, 2007)

Jesus mate we saw the headlines on the news, apparantly Oliva Newton John as well as some other celebrities have been moved from their mansions to safety. Stay safe mate better to be safe than sorrry....
reguards Aussie


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## Wildcat (Oct 22, 2007)

Good luck buddy.


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## evangilder (Oct 22, 2007)

The celebs live in Malibu, one of 16 fires currently burning across the southland. It is one of the worst fire periods I have seen in 20 years. The Piru fire is the closest to me now that the Lexington Ranch fire is out. The ones in Canyon Country and Arrowhead are the real bad ones right now. 

Over 250,000 people have been evacuated from their homes in Southern California and the air is full of acrid smoke. Never a dull moment here...


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## Erich (Oct 22, 2007)

my brothers area is surrounded by 9 fires from east moving towards the west and the coast. they evacuated his business today, his daughter is not attending school for health reasons and they can see the fires to the south of them starting up a new 1500 home sub-division from a call I received this morn.

He lives over a dry grassy meadow and is already packed ready to go, a fake evac notice at 3am came by them at 5am and then shut down when the wind shifted....................

if you guys remember the huge 500,000 acre bisquet fire we had in south Oregon some years back the largest fire in the states................yes I know about this B. ****


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## syscom3 (Oct 22, 2007)

Erich..... hope everything works out for your bro!


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## Maharg (Oct 23, 2007)

Stay safe Fellas. If you are anywhere upwind of the fire, block your down pipes and fill your roof gutters with water, this helps to stop buring embers from getting into the roof cavity.

All the Best
Graham


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## evangilder (Oct 23, 2007)

Here is a shot I took with the camera in my phone on Sunday from the office in Camarillo. It was better yesterday, but still pretty smoky. I have more on the phone I haven't downloaded yet.


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## evangilder (Oct 23, 2007)

Yesterday, I pulled a "kamikaze kamera" and got these. (kamikaze kamera is pointing the SLR in a general direction and shooting, without looking through the viewfinder). It was smoky at home and at work. In between was an oasis of blue, but it still smelled like smoke.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 23, 2007)

Damn guys, hope you all make it out safe. Good luck


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## mkloby (Oct 23, 2007)

Yes - stay safe. Eric that last pic on an angle made me feel dizzy!


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## Erich (Oct 23, 2007)

just got this from my brother 5 minutes ago, he is in San Marcos

we are currently out of harms way. Just breathing the puky air. The fire
closest to us is contained. The other fires are still going hard.
300,000+ people have been evacuated. The witch fire is heading toward
the coast so it is doing some major damage along the way. It is
currently going through the most expensive area in San Diego county. Over
600+ homes are toast. Another fire broke out this morning in another
area north of us. This place is a mess.


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## Erich (Oct 23, 2007)

to add to the crap already going on, from my bro further ......

Winds are predicted to continue through today with a possible change
tomorrow. The temps are up today. It was 80 degrees when I left at
630AM.


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## ccheese (Oct 23, 2007)

Mazda Motor of America has it's HQ in Irvine, CA. We got the word today
that they are closed because of the smoke. Must be really nasty out there.

You guys in CA..... be safe... !

Charles


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## syscom3 (Oct 23, 2007)

ccheese said:


> Mazda Motor of America has it's HQ in Irvine, CA. We got the word today
> that they are closed because of the smoke. Must be really nasty out there.
> 
> You guys in CA..... be safe... !
> ...



I'm in Irvine right now, and it isnt bad at all. I will take some pics and post them tonight.


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## syscom3 (Oct 23, 2007)

Heres a map of the Orange County fire, showing what has burned up to late morning.

The redded area = 23 square miles (

News: Map of the Santiago Fire - OCRegister.com


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## comiso90 (Oct 23, 2007)

Have they determined if we are dealing with arson?

stupid question... some of it has to be arson. Any arsonist should be burnt alive VERY slowly (preferably from the inside out.)

.


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## syscom3 (Oct 23, 2007)

The fire here was definatly arson. Three known points of origion, close by each other.

The arsonist knew what they were doing and picked a damn good place and time to start it.


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## comiso90 (Oct 23, 2007)

The same thing happened in Greece this summer... they considered it an act of terror.


In the "good old days" arsonists were just sociopaths that got a charge out of watching fire. Now it seems that they're able to orchestrate conflagrations that cripple economies and displace hundreds of thousands.

*513,000 in one county told to leave!*

..


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## ppopsie (Oct 23, 2007)

> Winds are predicted to continue through today with a possible change
> tomorrow. The temps are up today. It was 80 degrees



What has been and is the direction of the wind? Is that dry one from the desert up north? I was in the area in 1982 for a month and a half.


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## Cota1992 (Oct 23, 2007)

I grew up in San Diego and have spend the last 24 hrs trying to cantact family and friends.
I have one one friend who's living in a office with her family, dogs and birds.
Another friend who contacted me just a few minutes ago and is okay.
I have have another freind who lives in Portland from San Diego who's entire extended family has been evacuated.
The best news of all was finally getting ahold of my Dad after trying to reach him all day after hearing reports of what's happining in Chula Vista, and finding out he's out of the danger area.
I went through the 2003 firestorm out there and I can't even think of what it's like this time.
Art


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## Njaco (Oct 23, 2007)

This just reported on the news here:

Over 500, 000 evacuated - largest in history, larger than Katrina.

Over 300,000 acres involved (my number might be off - could be 30,000)

And over 8,000 firefighters involved with calls for more.

You guys stay out of harm's way, please.


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## evangilder (Oct 23, 2007)

Definitely over 300,000. The fire closest to me was over 41,000 acres this morning. There are not enough resources to deal with this many fires all at once. We have WAY too few air resources for these fires and the C-130 tankers are finally on their way or have arrived in the last couple of hours. If Katrina hasn't proven it to any of you Americans, this is your second wake up call. Be prepared, the government will do the bare minimum to help you after plenty of delays. The bureaucracy will keep the help from getting to you for days. Be prepared to be able to sustain yourself for at least 2 weeks. Plenty of food and water, propane tanks, whatever other things you will need like medications and the like.


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## mkloby (Oct 23, 2007)

Eric - As one of the repubs in the debates the other night said, "and these are the people you want managing your healthcare?!"


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## syscom3 (Oct 24, 2007)

One thing that needs to be debated is the fact that some of the burn area's are repeats from only a few years ago.

Its time we say that if you're going to build in a hazardous area, you take your chances.

I bet nearly all of the states fire resources that have been used or spent in the past 30 years have gone to only a few area's, over and over and over.


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## Erich (Oct 24, 2007)

let us look at it this way guys, no-one on this earth can control the wind, and that has been the fire-fighters worst enemy, same applied in the wilderness here outside of my town, embers went sailing from north to south and started up 3 other crazy fires burning down 20 miles into the coast range of Cali and then God thank you, the wind turned back on itself and put the southern fires out but extended the northern Florence sector north to the small river resort of Galice where locals evac'd asap ! the fire was coming over the ridge down on them on some of the steepest terrain the west coast has to offer - no-one or plane nor helicopter was going to put that ugly out except by the hand of God and HE did just that, the wind again turned the fire on itself 

the same needs to apply here prayerfully the wind will turn away and the fires back on burned soil

500,00 souls moved to where ? and on a freeway system large, yes but not that large

hang in there you guys and by the way some of Oregons best have come down to help including the mighty Crane helicopters, which are easily identifiable as they are massive


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## pbfoot (Oct 24, 2007)

mkloby said:


> Eric - As one of the repubs in the debates the other night said, "and these are the people you want managing your healthcare?!"


Sure is look at the proper aircraft to fight fires your on the ocean endless supply of water and your having hueys dip there little buckets take a look what the 215 and 415's from the place of socialized medicine can do . It actually is a better arguement for them . How many lifts can they do an hour compared to a 130 .


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## comiso90 (Oct 24, 2007)

pbfoot said:


> How many lifts can they do an hour compared to a 130 .


Or this:

sunny posted a vid of it in another thread
.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 24, 2007)

Stay safe guys.....


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## Njaco (Oct 24, 2007)

Cosimo, just heard they brought that sucker in and are using it.

And Evangilder, I was going to comment on what you were thinking. The news here reported that unlike Katrina, Disaster Relief forces are working like clockwork for the people. Now, the claim is that Katrina showed them how to do it but I'm waiting for Al Sharpton to get ahold of it.


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## evangilder (Oct 24, 2007)

Rubbish. There was a blue ribbon commission back in 2003 after the disastrous San Diego fire. A BIG part of the recommendations made by a neutral commission were NOT done. The firefighters of Southern California don't have the resources they need to effectively fight fires and we end up leasing the equipment from Canada to get the job done, and even then it is the bare minimum. When the fires began, the C-130s and all air resources that could be spared should have been here to stomp these fires out. EVERYONE knew that a fire starting in the weather conditions we had when it began was big trouble. The conditions were absolutely perfect for a big friggin mess. While bureaucrats sat on their hands and did nothing, hot weather, single digit humidity and the Santa Ana winds turned Southern California into a pool of acrid smoke. Hundreds of homes are now gone, people left homeless with what they can carry and air that is almost unbreathable.

If the resources that were recommended by the blue ribbon commission *4 years ago* had been here, there would have been less damage. Firefighters that are in reactive mode for 2-3 days are not an effective force. The should only be in reactive mode for 8-10 hours before going on the offensive. The leadership on this has been terrible, and many people have suffered because of incompetence.


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## Erich (Oct 24, 2007)

another big problem is the far ranging eyes for the fires is antiquidated in a huge way. Like Eric said the main craft that needs to be close at hand is in Canada or up here in Oregon or ......... ? yeah where is when you need them, nowhere close that is a fact. i can talk of this as well. here we are in dry forested canyons in south Oregon, the nearest and get this as we have had the biggest fire in the USA history (so far) ~ where are our water /retardent bombers ?..........at least 100 miles to our east. could this be a political move ? not sure but a fools move as a fact. Cali has had this reaccuring problem every darn year, why don't officials get it ??


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## Erich (Oct 24, 2007)

here is the straight up poop for the chaos :

National Interagency Fire Center


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## comiso90 (Oct 24, 2007)

evangilder said:


> If the resources that were recommended by the blue ribbon commission *4 years ago* had been here, there would have been less damage. Firefighters that are in reactive mode for 2-3 days are not an effective force. The should only be in reactive mode for 8-10 hours before going on the offensive. The leadership on this has been terrible, and many people have suffered because of incompetence.



I've seen a number of stories extolling the success of their disaster relief efforts. Why are the good at it?

poor development means lots of flooding - they've had a lot of practice
no man power shortage
a one party system.... VERY little beuracracy.. 


Certainly not an argument for communism but an example how a smaller government can act more quickly.


People, politics ease China's disaster evacuation efforts - CNN.com

# Officials: Krosa causes widespread destruction in eastern China, but no deaths
# Red Cross official: One-party system helps keep government in sync
# Chinese officials evacuated 1.4 million people, provided tents, food and water
# Frequency, range of disasters prompt numerous contingency plans in China



.


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## Thorlifter (Oct 24, 2007)

I'm sure there will be lawsuits and screaming over how the government did nothing, just like people screamed about Katrina.

I can only say this. Eric and you other west coast guys..........stay safe.


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## comiso90 (Oct 24, 2007)

My friends backyard in Irvine.


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## syscom3 (Oct 24, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> My friends backyard in Irvine.



I bet he was coughing up black stuff from his lungs and throat.


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## comiso90 (Oct 24, 2007)

yeah miserable

He has 2 small kids too... I told him the family could live with me if they need too.


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## Erich (Oct 24, 2007)

dang that is what it was literally some 20 years ago here, the surrounding hills all burning, our town was just about evac'd. We lived with that burning embers over us and sprinklers on roofs from first week of August till mid November every stinkin hot day till the rains and winds finally washed the scurge out.....

get the heck outta there...... oh wow cool man my neighbors house is on fire....sadly some folk just don't and will not get it.


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## comiso90 (Oct 24, 2007)

"Naw it will never happen to me."
 

I'd be gone too... just to avoid monster traffic jams.

.


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## evangilder (Oct 25, 2007)

This is the kind of bureaucracy that is simply ridiculous:


> As Calif. fires burned, copters grounded
> 
> By AARON C. DAVIS and MICHAEL R. BLOOD, Associated Press Writers 38 minutes ago
> 
> ...


As Calif. fires burned, copters grounded - Yahoo! News


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## enven (Oct 25, 2007)

I am in Cerritos, CA / Long Beach Area...Same mix of fires/wind/ash.

I work in Irvine so I am dealing with the brunt of it from the South/SE area...Really sucks.


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## Erich (Oct 25, 2007)

Eric this is as much of a joke as we had in the what once was protected Kalmiopsis wilderness/Biscuit fires I have spoken of. Politicians sitting on their thumbs for days whether to send the needed supplies, crews and reinforcements to handle the blaze. Insanity sure crept in and even after the fire pumped up an additional 10,000 acres one night they still told the fire-forest service to monitor for another week...............idiots. !

I do see our local big Erickson Crane Heli's in the air above you. they are huge and look something out of a sci-fi flick, they can move mtns nearly and really load up the huge buckets of water that is desperate in so Cali right now to put an end to this destruction. hope they catch the morn arsons and make a public hanging


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## comiso90 (Oct 25, 2007)

enven said:


> I am in Cerritos, CA / Long Beach Area...Same mix of fires/wind/ash.
> 
> I work in Irvine so I am dealing with the brunt of it from the South/SE area...Really sucks.



I grew up in LB near El Dorado Park.. left when I was 21...

Whats the closest Fire...? Irvine?


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## Torch (Oct 26, 2007)

Here's a kicker. Most of our twin bombers can carry 1200 gals of water, the Canadian DC6s can hold 3000 gals. The Russians have the IL 76 water bomber which can hold 12000 gals and does an amazing job of putting out fires without retardent. Even the Greeks requested them. Problem is the Forest Service does not want to use them for reasons like "it dumps too much water", "needs too long of a runaway(which is bullshit)". They also have the amphib twin jet BE-200 which can fill its tank in 14 secs in up to 4 or 5 ft swells. The political crap is unbelievable.


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## renrich (Oct 26, 2007)

It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that these fires in CA were set by Bush and his minions in order to alleviate the oversupply of housing in this country!


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## Torch (Oct 26, 2007)

Brilliant strategy.


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## ccheese (Oct 26, 2007)

renrich said:


> It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that these fires in CA were set by Bush and his minions in order to alleviate the oversupply of housing in this country!




Are you sh!tting me ? Get real !!

Charles


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## Erich (Oct 26, 2007)

ah hmmmmmmm ren have you been smokin some bad Colorado doobie ?

from my bro this morn : 

Fire update. Two fires remain in the SD area. One is 20% contained and
the other is 45%. California has lost around 1800 homes to all of this.
Insurance companies must be going crazy.
Air quality is getting alot better. I can actually go for a run tonight
and not go into convulsions.
J K are at school today helping the clean up process with the soot,
ash and debris from the winds. Fun!


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## Torch (Oct 26, 2007)

I kinda took his comment as sarcastic. I hope ren was'nt serious.


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## comiso90 (Oct 26, 2007)




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## Graeme (Oct 26, 2007)

Erich said:


> I do see our local big Erickson Crane Heli's in the air above you.



Australia leases Erikson Sky Cranes nearly every year to fight fires on the East Coast of NSW, usually around the Sydney region, with great success. A lot of money is involved in air-lifting them to Australia, crews, maintenance, etc, but when we trialled the Canadair 215T the Government cried "poor" and "too expensive"! Go figure.


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## renrich (Oct 26, 2007)

The dems and much of the media try to blame everything on Bush. Might as well hang this one around his neck. However just to set the record straight I was being facetious.


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## ToughOmbre (Oct 26, 2007)

renrich said:


> The dems and much of the media try to blame everything on Bush. Might as well hang this one around his neck. However just to set the record straight I was being facetious.



Knew it all the time ren. 

And you're right, they blame him for everything. The mainstream media is a disgrace.

TO


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## Erich (Oct 26, 2007)

she did it .............


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## ToughOmbre (Oct 26, 2007)

Nice Halloween masks Erich.  

TO



Erich said:


> she did it .............


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## Erich (Oct 26, 2007)

i LIKE THE ONE 4TH FROM THE TOP THAT WE YOU COULD PUT A 1/2 RIPPED OPEN SLUG DOWN HER THROAT.......


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## Screaming Eagle (Oct 27, 2007)




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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 28, 2007)

Somehow she reminds me off the Frankensteins Bride.


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## Njaco (Nov 1, 2007)

Just wanted to add that a few news outlets around here placed some blame on the environmentalists who prevented many homeowners and agencies from removing deadwood and brush because it would harm living areas of protected animals. 

and.....
The Associated Press: Fires Spew Tons of Global Warming Gas

*Fires Spew Tons of Global Warming Gas*
By SETH BORENSTEIN – 22 hours ago 

WASHINGTON (AP) — In one week, Southern California's wildfires spewed the same amount of carbon dioxide — the primary global warming gas — as the state's power plants and vehicles did, scientists figure.


and Ren, Bush did do it to make room for more immigrant housing.


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## syscom3 (Nov 1, 2007)

And most of those homeowners should never have built in fire prone area's to begin with.

Let 'em burn!


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## mkloby (Nov 3, 2007)

syscom3 said:


> And most of those homeowners should never have built in fire prone area's to begin with.
> 
> Let 'em burn!



Sad - but it's true. It's the same with a hurricane prone region, earthquakes, etc. You know the threat and risk is there. Their insurance will cover most of their financial losses - if they insured themselves properly. They will just have to make new memories.

At least they're not saying that the federal gov't dropped napalm to start the fires.


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## syscom3 (Nov 3, 2007)

mkloby said:


> Sad - but it's true. It's the same with a hurricane prone region, earthquakes, etc. You know the threat and risk is there. Their insurance will cover most of their financial losses - if they insured themselves properly. They will just have to make new memories.
> 
> At least they're not saying that the federal gov't dropped napalm to start the fires.



During the fires, it dawned on a lot of people that the OC fire was burning in area's that had few structures and incredibly, were being eyed by developers.

And then we heard about how poorly equiped the the OC county fire authorities were, and we would need to buy or lease expensive aerial tankers and fire trucks.

Hmmmm...... the tax payer needs to buy 10's of millions of dollars of eqmt to put out fires in area's that should never get built up. And then everyone pay higher insurance premiums to subsidize the insurance for people who want to build back there.

"let 'em burn!!!!"


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## mkloby (Nov 3, 2007)

syscom3 said:


> During the fires, it dawned on a lot of people that the OC fire was burning in area's that had few structures and incredibly, were being eyed by developers.
> 
> And then we heard about how poorly equiped the the OC county fire authorities were, and we would need to buy or lease expensive aerial tankers and fire trucks.
> 
> ...




Well - ideally the market should take care of situations like that. Without government regulation those individuals should be charged appropriate insurance premiums to cover the risk, and it would not affect others as great.

I don't know anything about insurance in Cal - but what has happened in NJ is a textbook example of why the gov't needs to stay the frig out of the insurance industry... auto to be exact.

In NJ you have the high risk driver pool. I think you are put into this if you have 9 insurance points currently on your record (not sure I haven't lived in NJ in 4 years). The government forces those auto insurers to divide high risk drivers among them - yet regulates the premium that they can be charged to be covered. What you have, then, are higher premiums charged to the more responsible drivers to cover the risk that is not reflected in the premium that the high risk drivers are charged. All this was done because it was "unfair" that these folks that had horrible driving records had to pay very high premiums. Perhaps they will think of that next time when driving 110 down the turnpike.

Insurance is made more expensive also because you have lots of insurers pulling out of NJ, so there is less competition.

All this nets NJ in the #1 or 2 slot for most expensive auto insurance the last time I checked.


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## evangilder (Nov 3, 2007)

I don't agree with "let em burn". Honestly, as long as the governments of the local and state levels allow homes to be built there, they have the obligation to provide the appropriate emergency services as well. Orange county has 2 TWO helicopters for fighting fires. That is ridiculous, it doesn't matter how you look at it. They called LA, Ventura, Riverside and all the adjacent counties looking for resource help. Guess what, those counties had their hands full with their own fires. 

When you, as a government, allow homes to be built in areas, you are obligated to provide schools, emergency services, parks and rec, etc. Until they stop allowing homes to be built in risk areas, they need to pay for the proper equipment to fight the fires in those areas.


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## syscom3 (Nov 3, 2007)

evangilder said:


> I don't agree with "let em burn". Honestly, as long as the governments of the local and state levels allow homes to be built there, they have the obligation to provide the appropriate emergency services as well. Orange county has 2 TWO helicopters for fighting fires. That is ridiculous, it doesn't matter how you look at it. They called LA, Ventura, Riverside and all the adjacent counties looking for resource help. Guess what, those counties had their hands full with their own fires.
> 
> When you, as a government, allow homes to be built in areas, you are obligated to provide schools, emergency services, parks and rec, etc. Until they stop allowing homes to be built in risk areas, they need to pay for the proper equipment to fight the fires in those areas.



Let the cities who built the homes in dangerous area's pay for it.

I see no reason I should subsidize wealthy people in south OC from their own mistakes.


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## evangilder (Nov 3, 2007)

Do you consider paying for schools, roads and other items subsidizing other communities? If you don't have children, do you think it's not fair to have to pay property tax for schools in your own community? Besides, those wealthy people are paying significant higher property taxes than you are. It's hardly subsidizing. I know if your own neighborhood were burning, you would be the first to scream about how the county didn't have enough firefighting helicopters. 

Once again, as long as they are being given building permits to build there, then the government is allowing it to happen, and it is under the obligation to provide emergency services. Don't like it? Well then, do something to change it.

Orange county is too big to have only 2 firefighting helos. Let's be realistic here.


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## Njaco (Nov 3, 2007)

Mkloby, you got it correct.
New Jersey.
#1 for the highest insurance rates in the country.
#1 for the highest property taxes in the country.

I'm sure there are a few more but can't think of them right now.

But these fire zones that they're are building in should be cleared and maintained but too many special interest groups will block any of that. They should bear part of the cost for the fires for preventing safe fire practices.


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## syscom3 (Nov 3, 2007)

evangilder said:


> Do you consider paying for schools, roads and other items subsidizing other communities? If you don't have children, do you think it's not fair to have to pay property tax for schools in your own community? Besides, those wealthy people are paying significant higher property taxes than you are. It's hardly subsidizing. I know if your own neighborhood were burning, you would be the first to scream about how the county didn't have enough firefighting helicopters.
> 
> Once again, as long as they are being given building permits to build there, then the government is allowing it to happen, and it is under the obligation to provide emergency services. Don't like it? Well then, do something to change it.
> 
> Orange county is too big to have only 2 firefighting helos. Let's be realistic here.



Why should I have to pay for fire resources to protect the homes of people that shouldn't have built there in the first place. It was their cities who issued the permits. Let them work out the problems.

Let them, and their cities pay for it, not the vast majority of people (like myself) who dont live in fire prone area's (or flood plains either).

Two firefighting helo's is fine. A few more fire trucks are needed but thats it.


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