# Bf 109H?



## Njaco (Nov 30, 2008)

While going through some of my dad's old photos, I came across this pic. On the back is written:
Bf 109 H
John Caler
Atlanta, Georgia
1967

Photo by John W. Underwood


Anybody know anything about this?


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## phas3e (Nov 30, 2008)

a quick google found this

A Tale of Two Me-109s

Also 'yellow 13' has a section on this and has it as a G-10/U4


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## Njaco (Nov 30, 2008)

Thanks phase! so this pic could be T2-124 along with this pic.

Just did a quick google myself and it appears this is the Bf 109 at the AFM in Ohio on static display. Cool!

www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org - Warbird Registry - Luftwaffe Aircraft

Fact Sheets : Messerschmitt Bf 109G-10 : Messerschmitt Bf 109G-10


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## Erich (Nov 30, 2008)

Njaco

nice sig fits the times, excellent, like yours and Grau's

sorry but very hare to tell due to missing wings just what is on the pics in the cracked up state


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## GrauGeist (Dec 1, 2008)

Thanks Erich, the mood I've been in lately, my sig may be the substitute for the outdoor lights and various decorations this year...lol

As far as I've read, the H model was taken from the F chassis and modified. It is too bad that there aren't any wings attached, since the H's wings were unique. The tail was more pronounced as well. The canopy frame does look late, though.

Perhaps this three-view would help to compare details?


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## 109ROAMING (Dec 1, 2008)

Is this a 109H?


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## phas3e (Dec 1, 2008)

Bv155


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## 109ROAMING (Dec 1, 2008)

Cheers Phas3e ,I thought it wasn't a 109


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## Flyboy2 (Dec 1, 2008)

Just some pictures of the Bv-155 I came across.. in case your curious. Completely off topic though...


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## 109ROAMING (Dec 2, 2008)

Cheers Flyboy2


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## Flyboy2 (Dec 2, 2008)

Anytime man


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## thewritingwriter89 (Dec 2, 2008)

Flyboy2 said:


> Just some pictures of the Bv-155 I came across.. in case your curious. Completely off topic though...



kind of looks like a Heinkel-100


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## thewritingwriter89 (Dec 2, 2008)

The Bf-109H was an attempt to make a super-high altitude 109 using existing F airframes. They wanted to make a stop-gap interceptor and reconissance aircraft but better versions of the Ta-152 and 262 were nearing completion in their development cycle so the project was abandoned. The first "H-0" used the 601E and later prototypes used the Jumo 213. Performance was deemed unsatisfactory. And, regarding your photo Njaco, I don't think it would be easy to tell if it was an H unless you were told specifically so, because the extended wings aren't in the picture (granted, your Dad may have actually been told that, or knew that, whatever). Other than that, the fuselage looks looks like a stock late model 109. If it is actually an H, then you have a rare pic my friend.


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## GrauGeist (Dec 2, 2008)

Well, I'm comparing the 3-view with NJ's pic, and there's two things I see that point me towards a late G series.

One, is the tailwheel bulge on the H 3-view, which was to encase the tailwheel assembly to reduce drag. The photo shows a recess, much like the late G had.

The other, is the more pronounced cooler intake in the photo, which again, is consistant with the standard G series. The H had more of a stream-lined configuration to reduce drag.

Other than that, there's really not much to go on


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## Capt. Vick (Dec 2, 2008)

...then it can't be a Bf 109 H. Look where the landing gear is attached. In the picture of the supposed H the gear is attached to the fuselage, while in the 3-view they are well outboard. I have always thought of the H, and the Z for that matter, somewhat of a myth. Just my humble opinion though. I'll take my beating now thank you!


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## Njaco (Dec 2, 2008)

I don't think its an 'H' either. My father didn't take the pic and it appears its one of those stock photos you could buy in a hobby shop. The photographer indentification is hand stamped whereas the rest is in my dad's handwriting. Maybe that is what he was told and he wrote that.

I'm thinking that with pha3e's link, its a pic of FE -124/T2-124 as it was shipped for restoration from GA. It appears its the G-10 at the AFM in Dayton.


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## thewritingwriter89 (Dec 3, 2008)

Capt. Vick said:


> ...then it can't be a Bf 109 H. Look where the landing gear is attached. In the picture of the supposed H the gear is attached to the fuselage, while in the 3-view they are well outboard. I have always thought of the H, and the Z for that matter, somewhat of a myth. Just my humble opinion though. I'll take my beating now thank you!



Hey -look at that. Duh. Very astute observation Capt. Vick. How did we miss the most obvious part of the pic? Now we just have to identify the model. Njaco, I believe you are right, it looks like a G-10. I just wish we could see the tail. Is that the only photo of the aircraft you have?


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## lesofprimus (Dec 3, 2008)

Its definatly not an H model...


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## Njaco (Dec 3, 2008)

Yes, it was the only German one that my dad had. I think pha3e is on the right track. According to the link, the color pic might have been taken when Bud Weaver had it and then the pic on the truck is when Caler bought it - several years in the open would degrade it about that much. At least that is what it might be from.


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## GrauGeist (Dec 3, 2008)

Well, the problem I have with the original photo, is the tailwheel.

It has a recess at the tailwheel that existed up to the G-4 model, which didn't have that late model canopy available at the time...

I'm almost thinking it's an earlier fuselage with a later canopy?


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## phas3e (Dec 3, 2008)

Heres some of the info on this bird from Jerry Crandells "yellow 10"
having trouble uploading the text


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## phas3e (Dec 4, 2008)




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## Njaco (Dec 4, 2008)

Thanks, pha3e! I still think they're the same plane. They look very similar.


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## DFM+BB (Apr 20, 2009)

Maybe a Me109 G6 retrofited in G10 ?
It could explain the old tail wheel type.


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## beaupower32 (Apr 20, 2009)

This plane might have a DB605D in it. Compairing the photos here and the ones from the 109 lair, i think it matches up to a 605D. Which if it did, would indicate a late war ride, as in a G-10. I might be wrong as im still learning to tell the difference from one 109 model to the next. so bear with me if im wrong. Here is the link i used to compair the model engines. 


The 109 Lair- The Online Source for Messerschmitt 109 information


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## A4K (Apr 21, 2009)

Daniel, re the Bv 155 pic you posted, you're not too far off the mark!
The development of the Bf 109H was 'officially' abandoned after the Ta 152 won the contract for the High altitude interceptor. Messerschmitt continued to develop the idea however, resulting in the Me 155 design (not actually built as far as I know). Continuous problems with engine cooling arrangement, and emphasis on standard fighter production, led to them handing the design over to Blohm und Voss. The result was the Bv 155, of which 2 were completed and test flown, and a third about 75% completed by the time Allied troops overran the factory.

The Bv 155-V1 was destroyed, the V2 (in your photo) test flown by the British, and written off after an engine malfunction, and the third (the only survivor) now held in the States by the NASM at their Silver Hill facility.


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## net_sailor (Apr 21, 2009)

Definetly G-10 with DB 605D engine (cold start device in upper position). Additional details: chin bulges on lower engine cover and raised filer for larger oil tank, deeper oil cooler.
If I remember correct, a short tailwheel leg indicates a WNF factory. Additional cover for commpressed air on the rear fuselage strongly suggest U4 variant with MK 108 cannon.


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## Graeme (Apr 21, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> Perhaps this three-view would help to compare details?



G'day Grau (Dave?) A Frenchman by the name of Phillipe Ricco wrote an article for Airpower in 1995...





...and in it he claimed that with new information from Daimler Benz at hand, people like Green, Hitchcock and Nowarra had got it wrong and for the the first time with a "bit" of speculation and common sense this is how it (109H) would have looked. He was convinced that it would've had a Daimler Benz DB 628 engine and a narrow track undercarriage (based on the G model)...


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## A4K (Apr 21, 2009)

Interesting Graeme...that goes against all the info I've found on the H. Does he specify on what information he based his surmise?

I still think she would have had the longer wings for better performance at high altitude, myself...


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## DFM+BB (Apr 21, 2009)

Graeme is right about this Me109H.
And it didn't goes against A4K's information, actually as far as I can remember two vertion of the 109H where build.

But to my mind this messerschmitt was build with a supplementary fuselage section with makes it longuer than usual messerschmitt.

when I'll get back home this weekend I'll send you an article extract from a french magazine about the Me109H and its diffrent vertion, it is in frenchbut if you whant I'll translate.

There is a picture of this Me actually the only one existing because of the IIIreich censure.


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## beaupower32 (Apr 21, 2009)

net_sailor said:


> Definetly G-10 with DB 605D engine (cold start device in upper position). Additional details: chin bulges on lower engine cover and raised filer for larger oil tank, deeper oil cooler.
> If I remember correct, a short tailwheel leg indicates a WNF factory. Additional cover for commpressed air on the rear fuselage strongly suggest U4 variant with MK 108 cannon.





I thought it was a G-10. I still dont see where u see the cover for the cmporessed air. I might not be looking hard enough.


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## DFM+BB (Apr 21, 2009)

for me its a G-10 "AS" with the DB605AS engine but maybe I'm wrong


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## net_sailor (Apr 21, 2009)

As I said: definetly G-10 with DB 605D engine (*cold start device in upper position*).
In fact there were not a G-10/AS designation. It was introduced by researchers many years ago for G-10 from Erla works without chin bulges and witout rounded fairing on the left side. 
Anyway DB 605 A and AS engines had cold start device on lower position.

Beaupower, follow the red arrow:


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## A4K (Apr 21, 2009)

Interesting NS, I never knew that!


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## Njaco (Apr 21, 2009)

Graeme, I just read that article last week!!!! I'll see if I can post some more pics. Apparently he modelled a Bf 109 as a guesstimate of what it would look like.

and thanks everybody for answering this question about my dad's pic!


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## beaupower32 (Apr 21, 2009)

net_sailor said:


> Beaupower, follow the red arrow:
> View attachment 90286




Ah, there it is. Thanks for pointing it out for me.


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## DFM+BB (Apr 22, 2009)

Net Sailor, I know that it was introduced by researchers many years ago that's why I wrote G-10 "AS".


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## net_sailor (Apr 22, 2009)

It was not personally agaist you my friend. Other readers could be not familiarized with the "G-10/AS" designation story.


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## DFM+BB (Apr 22, 2009)

don't worry there is no problem my friend


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