# G'day from Australia



## Emac44 (Oct 23, 2006)

G'day,
My name is David. I recently joined this website. And I am interested to find out more about the site and the people who use it. As you may have gathered yes I am an Aussie from Brisbane Queensland Australia. I am 47 and the son of a airman who saw service with not only the Australian Army early in WW2 but my father also saw service with 467 Squadron Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF). He was a mid upper gunner on a Mk11 type Avro Lancaster.. He was based at RAF Waddington Lincolnshire from 1944 to 1945. 467 RAAF Squadron was attached to 5th Bomber Group. I have some family photographs of a wartime Lancaster and her crew which belonged to my late father. I also have in my possession 467 Squadron records operational accounts from 1943 to 1945 and if any one is interested I can try and copy said details as the ops book is rather large and will not fit on my scanner. But as I said, I do have some photos to share dating from December 1944 and a photo of my father taken in 1973 when he returned back to RAF Waddington for a visit. So please feel free to contact me. I look forward to it

best regards 
David


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## FLYBOYJ (Oct 23, 2006)

Welcome, we'd love to see some photos!


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## v2 (Oct 24, 2006)

Welcome from Poland


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## Emac44 (Oct 24, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Welcome, we'd love to see some photos![/QU[/I][/B]buddy no worries. what would you like. a view from astrodome looking back at midupper gunner frasier nash turret. whilst aircraft was taxiing to go on mission or the various crew positions with crew. a full side photo taken from port side of a 467 Squadron Lancaster at tarmac or a photo taken in 1973 with 2 RAF warrant officers and my father at waddington


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## Emac44 (Oct 24, 2006)

v2 said:


> Welcome from Poland



thank you from Aussie


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## Emac44 (Oct 24, 2006)

flyboy. if you go and have a look at my album for Emac44 i have posted a few photos for your decernment. let me know what you think ok


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 24, 2006)

Welcome to the site.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2006)

welcome! i'm quite a lancaster fan myself and would love to hear more, one query though- 467 didn't operate the Mk.II... a typo? either way i'll go have a look at these pictures now! thanks.......


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 24, 2006)

yep just been to have a look- a lot of unusual shots in there thanks for posting! the only lanc i could see the code of was a PO-B, which, owing to the late 44 timeframe we can narrow down to being DV396, a Mk.I lost on the 2nd of November 1944, and it doesn't appear there were any more PO-Bs after this one, which joined the squadron in October '44, so if these photos were of late '44 vintage (which they appear to be looking at one of the cockpit panels), that's the lanc it'll be


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## Gnomey (Oct 24, 2006)

Quite a lanc fan would be an understatement...

Welcome to the forum.


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## Emac44 (Oct 25, 2006)

yes it is POB Baker. was my father's Lancaster. it was lost and crashed in 1947. but the aircraft survived the war as did the crew. and according to Squadron records 467 operated marks 1s and 111s. and again PB762 took part in a raid on hamburg march7/8th 1945. as i said i have Squadron Operation Records Book. A copy my father had made up when he retired from RAAF in 1975. Not sure how he got it but i have it with me at moment. unfortunately i can scan a few pages but it being so large bit hard to scan all of it. what i can do is take a web cam photo of it best i can and post it. hope that suffices


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## Wayne Little (Oct 25, 2006)

G'day back to you, Im a newbie too, welcome to the board!

Regards Wayne down in South Oz.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 25, 2006)

this's very odd... according to my records PB762 did serve with 467sqn but wes never assigned PO-B, you're right though she did crash on the 17th October 1945 to be scrapped the following june... but what does your records book say about squadron markings for the aircraft in question?


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## Emac44 (Oct 25, 2006)

the lancaster kicks *** said:


> this's very odd... according to my records PB762 did serve with 467sqn but wes never assigned PO-B, you're right though she did crash on the 17th October 1945 to be scrapped the following june... but what does your records book say about squadron markings for the aircraft in question?



I can only go on what the Operations Record Book says in the pages typed and recorded as such. As you would summize aircraft were alotted to crews. Mostly PB762 was operated and flown by my father's crew until the end of the war in Europe and this was the aircraft he referred to mostly. On occassions records show they were alotted another aircraft if PB762 was in for say repairs. The later part i am only assuming so don't quote me per batim. As for the what aircraft was flown say in March 1945 as i stated in the raid on Hamburg that is what appears in official records of the Squadron for that nights raid on 7th/8th March 1945 and flown by which crew. For example Lancaster 1 RF140 flown by F/L Cross and his crew flew on same raid. Unfortunately Records Book it appears doesn't mention Squadron Marking so i can't help you with that. However to another lesser point the first page i have in Record Book refers to a cricket match being won by 467 Squadron over her sister Squadron 463. Both these Squadrons being RAAF owe their origin to 460 Squadron RAAF. But i can tell you out of my fathers crew there were 5 Aussies and 1 Englishman and 1 Welshman as you know most wartime Squadrons were virtually composite of crew ground and other servicemen and women coming from various parts of the Commonwealth to make up Squadrons. Out of 7 crew members making up my dad's crew there are only 2 left. There was a site dedicated to 467/463 RAAF Squadrons on the net but unfortunately it has closed. I don't know why, but it did go into detail about Squadron history and Squadron origins and markings but as i said it has closed and i don't know why it has closed. If it opens again i will let you know


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## Emac44 (Oct 25, 2006)

Wayne Little said:


> G'day back to you, Im a newbie too, welcome to the board!
> 
> Regards Wayne down in South Oz.



I liked your models wayne they looked rather smicko mate. keep up the work mate. its a relaxing hobby if i recall and unfortunately i was never as good as you building models as you are. You obviously go into a lot of detail and historical avenue about the models then i would ever dream off


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## Emac44 (Oct 25, 2006)

the lancaster kicks *** said:


> this's very odd... according to my records PB762 did serve with 467sqn but wes never assigned PO-B, you're right though she did crash on the 17th October 1945 to be scrapped the following june... but what does your records book say about squadron markings for the aircraft in question?



The only thing i can think of mate there seems to be decripancies in information you have and what i have. and i suppose we could debate this til the cows come home and neither of us would achieve much in it. but the one thing i will agree to is this Lancasters kicked arse and their brave indominable crews did their job and by no means is that to say other Squadrons from other nations didn't preform as valiantly. just like you i am a Lancaster fan as well. seems you have a rival in Lancaster appreciation hahaha


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## Emac44 (Oct 25, 2006)

I am enjoying this fantasticly so. best thing some one recommended me to this site finding other Lancaster fans


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## Emac44 (Oct 25, 2006)

Gnomey said:


> Quite a lanc fan would be an understatement...
> 
> Welcome to the forum.



Thanks gnomey but who are you referring Lancaster fan understatement etc hahaha


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## Emac44 (Oct 25, 2006)

the lancaster kicks *** said:


> this's very odd... according to my records PB762 did serve with 467sqn but wes never assigned PO-B, you're right though she did crash on the 17th October 1945 to be scrapped the following june... but what does your records book say about squadron markings for the aircraft in question?



I got embroiled into your Lancaster vs B25 debate. i can't believe the amount of forum discussion that it has evolved into 28 odd pages. that is incrediable to say the very least. i am enjoying it though and love the old photos that other debaters put into the forum. you certainly put a cat amongst the pigeons in that poll and debate hahaha


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## Emac44 (Oct 25, 2006)

the lancaster kicks *** said:


> this's very odd... according to my records PB762 did serve with 467sqn but wes never assigned PO-B, you're right though she did crash on the 17th October 1945 to be scrapped the following june... but what does your records book say about squadron markings for the aircraft in question?



I am just looking at the old photos i have here. 3 in particular. one shows my father standing next to a fusalagre entrance and clearly over his left shoulder you can make out the letters PB and numbers 7 and obscured other number i am presuming is 6. another photo shows my father astride the lancaster facing towards the tail with what i presume are the tops of letters say PO its the starbard side of the aircraft


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## Emac44 (Oct 25, 2006)

Emac44 said:


> I am just looking at the old photos i have here. 3 in particular. one shows my father standing next to a fusalagre entrance and clearly over his left shoulder you can make out the letters PB and numbers 7 and obscured other number i am presuming is 6. another photo shows my father astride the lancaster facing towards the tail with what i presume are the tops of letters say PO its the starboard side of the aircraft



and of course the photo of POB aircraft in question. I can not understand the reasons to the information you have and i have and photos i have not lining up in information. only thing i could evisage somewhere during the war wrong information was recorded


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## Emac44 (Oct 25, 2006)

unfortunately other letters behind the POB are there on the long view of the aircraft but i can not make them out even holding the photo up close. i will try and enlarge photo as best i can


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## Emac44 (Oct 25, 2006)

tried to enlarge photo of POB on its own. had a close look at what i thought were more letters. it was either a blemish on the photo or there had been damage to the aircraft and had been repaired. so the mystery is such still a mystery


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## Emac44 (Oct 25, 2006)

also looked in further into the OPS Records and it records 2 different crews flew same aircraft on different missions. one would be of duty it appears on one day for example then my dad's crew would be using aircraft a few days later. this i can not explain at all


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 26, 2006)

i assume the 467 and 463 site you're on about was 467/463 RAF/RAAF WORLD WAR TWO BOMBER SQUADRONS,Lancasters,bombers,sorties,missions,WW2,Waddington,war,memorial ? i too liked that site, a wealth of information! 

with regards to the information i would never want to argue with a Operations Record Book! and i'm not arguing that your dad flew PB762, because she did fly with 467, i'm just wondering why my records don't show her as operating under the guise of PO-B, obviously as yours don't it is perfectly pheasable that she never recieved a letter, but she must have recieved a call sign at some point, DV396 is still the last official PO-B as i see it, do the records not give any other clue as to identity?


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## Emac44 (Oct 26, 2006)

unfortunately no the book doesn't give more than just PB762 MK1 Lancaster etc flown by my father's crew and on specific date mission and to what occured between take off and mission completion target indicators bomb load etc etc. where other crews flying same aircraft in late march april 1945 that i had no idea about. the conclusion came to me some time later today my time. bomber command under orders from air ministry were to scale back missions as targets were becoming less and less available to be attacked, hence the reason why crews were flying same lancasters that other crews were flying a few days later in that time period. which reminds me of a tale my father told me about Guy Gibson from 617 RAF. Gibson was asked if flying missions over Europe was hazardous? Gibson replied, No it wasn't as the German opposition had deminished greatly. A few days later Gibson was shot down with his crew and all were killed., Sorry bit of track there. the only other information i can get about PB762 is of my father's personal log book which is in my brother's possession. i will ring my brother this weekend as i plan to get the log book of him and copy the log book to my hard drive. just in case something dire happens to the log book we would still have a copy of its contents. another source would be to ring the son of my father's navigator colleague as father and son are more precise with details then i am. yes the navigator is still alive but i would have to get the info from my sister who has all of dad's phone numbers of his old war time friends. the web site that i used a lot was www.467463raafsquadrons.com.au. but as i said it closed and i don't know why


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## Emac44 (Oct 26, 2006)

the lancaster kicks *** said:


> i assume the 467 and 463 site you're on about was 467/463 RAF/RAAF WORLD WAR TWO BOMBER SQUADRONS,Lancasters,bombers,sorties,missions,WW2,Waddington,war,memorial ? i too liked that site, a wealth of information!
> 
> with regards to the information i would never want to argue with a Operations Record Book! and i'm not arguing that your dad flew PB762, because she did fly with 467, i'm just wondering why my records don't show her as operating under the guise of PO-B, obviously as yours don't it is perfectly pheasable that she never recieved a letter, but she must have recieved a call sign at some point, DV396 is still the last official PO-B as i see it, do the records not give any other clue as to identity?



look its absolutely fine and ok i didn't think at any stage you was arguing with record book or my late father flying in the lancaster in the squadron 467. its a mystery to me now seeing you raised this but all my father referred to and that of his mates was the aircraft POB Baker. other than that with the photos and official log record book i can only assume that it was POB Baker that had aircraft registration PB762 numbers, i will check dad's log book to see what it says there. maybe a few days before i can do so but i will have a look. by the way my father joined 467 in October 1944 along with his crew mates. that is according to the record book but that i am sure isn't totally accurate as mum and dad married on 1oth july at padgate 1944 and i am sure dad was on active duty prior to October 1944 with the Squadron. dad did his gunnery at Evans Heads NSW in Fairey Battles and Oxfords. It was handy for him actually as dad was a Ballina Boy and Evans Heads was only 50 to 60 miles south of Ballina. any way i will check his log book to ensure dates times and places more precisely and especially aircraft


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 26, 2006)

So who recommended you to the site if you dont mind me asking?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 26, 2006)

as i said DV396 was the last recorded PO-B i've got which joined 467 at the same time as your father so it's pheasable this was his first aircraft.............


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## syscom3 (Oct 26, 2006)

Emac44 said:


> I am enjoying this fantasticly so. best thing some one recommended me to this site finding other Lancaster fans



I think I remember telling you about this in one of the yahoo political chat rooms.


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## ma056769 (Oct 26, 2006)

Emac44 said:


> G'day,
> My name is David. I recently joined this website. And I am interested to find out more about the site and the people who use it. As you may have gathered yes I am an Aussie from Brisbane Queensland Australia. I am 47 and the son of a airman who saw service with not only the Australian Army early in WW2 but my father also saw service with 467 Squadron Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF). He was a mid upper gunner on a Mk11 type Avro Lancaster.. He was based at RAF Waddington Lincolnshire from 1944 to 1945. 467 RAAF Squadron was attached to 5th Bomber Group. I have some family photographs of a wartime Lancaster and her crew which belonged to my late father. I also have in my possession 467 Squadron records operational accounts from 1943 to 1945 and if any one is interested I can try and copy said details as the ops book is rather large and will not fit on my scanner. But as I said, I do have some photos to share dating from December 1944 and a photo of my father taken in 1973 when he returned back to RAF Waddington for a visit. So please feel free to contact me. I look forward to it
> 
> best regards
> David



David:
Hows things in Queensland these days. As were coming into our fall season the weather here is getting a bit crisp. Back in your Dads day the important thing was that you were in the fight. Didnt matter what branch. My dad was in the Pacific Theatre from 42 to 45 as a Radio Specialist on a LSAT. As for your Dad OPRECS I'd like to see them.


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## Emac44 (Oct 26, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> So who recommended you to the site if you dont mind me asking?



well it appears syscom3 introduced me to the site. i met him in washington watch 2 a yahoo chat room and we began talking about the Lancaster archive i have here about photos record books and log books i can access and he told me about this site and asked me if i would be interested. i admit i was a bit relunctant at first but he seemed generally interested that i had such material on hand and asked me if i was willing to share it with others. few days later joined the site. he contacted me today and asked if i was same person. which i have to admit i am and i am glad he introduced me to this site. not just for the website but it has incouraged me to get all information i have including photos log book etc and transfer it all to disc and hard drive in case it is lost. so syscom actually did me 2 favours in one which i am gratiful for


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## Emac44 (Oct 26, 2006)

ma056769 said:


> David:
> Hows things in Queensland these days. As were coming into our fall season the weather here is getting a bit crisp. Back in your Dads day the important thing was that you were in the fight. Didnt matter what branch. My dad was in the Pacific Theatre from 42 to 45 as a Radio Specialist on a LSAT. As for your Dad OPRECS I'd like to see them.



things are warming up in queensland and drought conditions to boot. with the record book i managed to transfer a few pages to scanner but being so large its hard to transfer pages per batim, i did manage with few pages i scanned and placed them on web site in my photo album and if you have a look see on profile pic you will see me with this records book and can see its rather large. yes and dad was in the fight from 1940 to 1943 with Australian Army 1943 to 1945 with RAAF. i have some of his early army records. and being typical aussie he played up like a second hand lawn mower in eygpt and middle east but thats a different story hahaha


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 27, 2006)

well guys you'll no doubt be glad to hear me and emac have all but solved the mystery!


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## Gnomey (Oct 27, 2006)

What mystery? Or have I just missed something really obvious...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 27, 2006)

read through the rest of this topic and you'll see me and Emac have been discussing 467 sqn and more specifically the identity of PB762........


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## Gnomey (Oct 27, 2006)

See it now.


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## Emac44 (Oct 27, 2006)

Gnomey said:


> See it now.



Ok the mystery was. Why was there 2 POB Lancasters in 467 Squadron RAAF in late 1944 early 1945 at Waddington. Ok the first POB was Lancaster DV396 which my fathers crew had first flown in their first sortie to Bergen Norway 28/29th Oct 1944. Less then a week later on the 2nd Nov 1944 this same Lancaster was shot down on a Dusseldorf raid but flown by another crew. 3 weeks later my fathers crew were flying the 2nd POB Lancaster for 467 Squadron RAAF and it was POB PB762. They flew the second Lancaster POB PB782 from 26/27th Nov 1944 to a raid on Munich and subsquent missions til end of the war. The early POB as Kick pointed out was that POB DV396 was officially on record books that he had and it was destroyed on a raid. Which is correct it was destroyed. Then i came along with a photo which kick naturally thought was POB DV396 and i said no it isn't it was a photo of POB PB762 and backed this up with the copy of Squadron Operations Record Book. It had as a little perplexed until i discovered a magazine with details of the Log Book of the same navigator who was in my father's crew and there i discovered the 2 aircraft with same POB but with definitely different registration numbers. Now why is this so. i can't tell you as my father is no longer alive and i am unsure if the fellow crew member (Navigator) is still alive either. My best guess what be that my father and his crew mates were supersticious as many other aircrews were at the time. So trusting to faith or luck or what ever they renamed the replacement Lancaster POB PB762 after the original POB DV396 Lancaster which was earlier destroyed. And POB DV396 was officially called signed POB which appears in Kicks records and POB PB762 was a ring in replacement aircraft but was still listed on records for 467 Squadron. Now that is what the mystery was all about. as Kick and myself where wondering why 2 different aircraft same Squadron same crew. One aircraft destroyed yet photo shows it sitting on tarmac in December 1944 when it was suppose to be destroyed nearly a month before. So the mystery has been solved with a little detective work and reading old log books from a friend of my father who served right alongside him so many years ago in 2 different Lancasters with same POB on the aircraft/s


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## Emac44 (Oct 27, 2006)

Now can we move unto something else now Kick. One mystery a week is one mystery too many hahaha


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## Emac44 (Oct 28, 2006)

Hey Lanc. read further on different reasons to why there were slight inaccuracies to records of fathers exploits during war and official records, i said dad and his mates had done 33 missions, its correct they had done 33 missions, their last mission was to Lutzkendorf Germany Oil refinery 8th/9th April 1945. and then granted leave when they returned powers to be reduced the mission records to 30. it appears my father's crew didn't care as they went on a binge at local pubs on returning to base as war in Europe had just ended shortly after their last and final mission after leave was granted. Must had been some booze up because they also ended up in the various aerodrome messes after leaving the local pubs around Waddington


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## syscom3 (Oct 28, 2006)

> .......i said dad and his mates had done 33 missions, its correct they had done 33 missions, ...... and then granted leave when they returned powers to be reduced the mission records to 30.



Why would they do that?


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## Emac44 (Oct 29, 2006)

syscom3 said:


> Why would they do that?



Sys no idea why they did that. My best guess would be for operational records for the Squadron. but other than that i can't tell you. Except i know the idea why they went to the pub and then the messes on base. I would too if i knew it was end of the war. our side had won and life was to return to normal. Talking of normal. I have my dad's log book. at moment i can show you what it looks like on the cover see below but i plan on taking it to a book binder as cover and spine of book needs repair. so not game enough to lay log book flat on scanner screen in case i damage the book inside etc


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## Emac44 (Oct 29, 2006)

Which also reminds me of a story my dad told me coming back from a mission in Germany Sys. They were flying back from Germany via France and were flying low altitude to avoid German radar and fighters. The pilot asked over the intercom if any one knew what the time was? My father replied it was 0215 hrs. The pilot asked dad how did he know the time? Dad replied that they had just flown level with a town hall clock and the time was reading 2.15 on the clock. Seemingly the pilot decided to gain extra height as flying through French villages at that level wasn't healthy for any one concerned. My father Sys relayed many stories to his children of what he did during the war. It was his way of unburdening himself. Other men didn't mention their war time experiences, but dad was different, he told us. Not everything but most things. And we also were told about other matters that Dad didn't relay to us but were told to us by his crew mates to fill us in from another perspective etc. For example sys. if you look at the photo in my album of my father talking to 2 RAF Warrant Officers. He told those 2 Warrant Officers about his navigator in his crew urinating down a knot hole in the sargents mess under a billiards table. As so happened that the day Dad was visiting Waddington again the Mess had its carpets up and billiard table was put to one side. low and behold was this very same Knot hole in the floor boards where dad had said it would be. War it seems wasn't always so serious. It had its lighter moments at times


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 29, 2006)

mmmm, RE the missing ops, aborted missions perhaps?


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## Emac44 (Oct 29, 2006)

speculation lanc no idea why 3 mission where not recorded and no this isn't a mystery. just something that occured officially 61 yrs ago and leaving it at that. father did 33 missions RAAF officially recorded 30. Log book confirms 33 Official records says 30. no idea why. except going to the pubs sounds a good idea and then indivvidual messes

by the way log book belongs to me now as brother decided it was better with me and safer. suits me. as i said will find book binder to restore log book to past glories


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