# SOREN OR BILL? Lets hear it!



## Hunter368 (May 20, 2008)

This thread is only a joke Soren and Bill, just trying to make you guys relax with each other. Don't get upset this is just making light of your guys inability to get along............on or about anything.


As we all have seen these two get along about as well as gas and fire, cats and dogs, etc. What should we do about it people?

1) Should we vote one of them off this forum forever like Survivor? Person who gets the least amount of votes gets booted from this forum. Then there will be peace again.  

OR

2) Lock both of them in a small camper, no phones, no computers, no visitors. Let them argue it out until they agree with each other or the world comes to an end.  

OR

3) Lock them both in the octagon and let them fight it out bare knuckles, last man breathing wins. No rules.  

OR

4) Other? Tell us what we should do to settle it between them.


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## lesofprimus (May 20, 2008)

I have the perfect solution....

Have them both meet in a bathtub after having consumed a gallon of Ice Tea and piss on each other...

Whoever runs outta piss first is the loser....


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## Marcel (May 20, 2008)

I suggested a thread for them, to fight it of in a private manner:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/corrections-suggestions/flaming-thread-specially-drgondog-soren-13304.html#post355848


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## Marcel (May 20, 2008)

lesofprimus said:


> I have the perfect solution....
> 
> Have them both meet in a bathtub after having consumed a gallon of Ice Tea and piss on each other...
> 
> Whoever runs outta piss first is the loser....



Let them come to a dutch cofeeshop and "chill" it out


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## Kurfürst (May 20, 2008)

I`d say that this would be a perfect thread for them to sort out all of their grudges and misunderstandings. If I were a mod, all not strictly on-topic posts would be moved here from the infected threads, and this thread would be renamed 'Soren vs Bill', and it would serve no other purpose than to allow an endless, unmoderated bashing between the two of them, at least until they too will get bored with it.. or at least keep the other threads clean.

Sorry both of ya guys, I think both of you had wonderful contributions in the past and I am sure you will give us the same in the future, but I am perfectly tired to see you kidnapping the umpteenth thread with what is basically blood feud, camouflaged as innocent technical posts.


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## Soren (May 20, 2008)

Since this thread was made why not put it to use ??

So let me start:

Bill, explain to me how the P-51 is close to the Bf-109 in turn performance and how you can justify that claim when all the experts disagree with you let alone aerodynamics itself.

Also where did you get the Idea that aeroelasticity was seen as witchcraft during WW2 ???

You can ask me questions as-well and I'll answer them if you answer mine.


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## Hunter368 (May 20, 2008)

I think many of us agree with you Kurfurst, that is why I made this thread.

Both are very smart guys, nice guys also when you get to know them. But that disagree on every freaking thing under the sun.

Soren "Sky is nice and blue today"
Bill "No it is not! Its cloudy"

Soren "Death is final in life"
Bill "No its not, its just the beggining"

Soren "Roses are red"
Bill "No"

Soren "Taxes suck"
Bill " I love taxes"

Soren "P-51 sucks"
Bill "P-51 was the best around fighter of WW2"

Soren "Insert anything about canopy suction here"
Bill "Soren you have no idea what you are talking about"

Soren "Germany could of easily won the war"
Bill "Soren you are crazy"

Soren "Ying"
Bill "Yang"

Soren "Cats rule"
Bill "Dogs rule"

Soren "-"
Bill "+"

Soren "109 turns better then 51"
Bill "109 sucks, 51 turns way better"

Endless


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## Soren (May 20, 2008)




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## Hunter368 (May 20, 2008)

Thank you Soren, glad you could smile at it.


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## Njaco (May 20, 2008)

Locked in a camper! Video tape it and we'll make money for the forum off the DVDs!!


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## Soren (May 20, 2008)

Well you're absolutely right Hunter368.

The problem was I tried be nice, I tried to follow the forum rules and not sidetrack threads because of some dispute I had with Bill. Bill on the other kept on provoking me in several different threads with completely unrelated topics. I'm sure you noticed his habbit of refering to the "suction debate" in nearly every post in many unrelated threads.

Now that he didn't recieve a warning for this is beyond me as I have recieved warnings for way less, one example was me being rude towards glen which caused Adler PM'ing me and telling me to behave. (He's said it publicly as-well) But does Bill recieve a single warning, despite for being the first to throw the mud on several occasions, nope..

Aaah that was nice, let out some steam


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## Hunter368 (May 20, 2008)

Are you sure he has not been given warnings?

Ask Adler to be sure before assuming.


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## Soren (May 20, 2008)

Njaco said:


> Locked in a camper! Video tape it and we'll make money for the forum off the DVDs!!



Ever heard of the 5 second knockout ??


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## Hunter368 (May 20, 2008)

Yes, but by who? LOL


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## Soren (May 20, 2008)

It's a trick mostly only the SAS learn.


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## Njaco (May 20, 2008)

aren't the ingrediants cabbage and baked bean?


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## Soren (May 20, 2008)

Yeah and a little bit of garlic


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## Matt308 (May 20, 2008)

Soren reads War and Peace. Bill consumes an olive branch. The rest of us check our charity tithings to see if we gave a %uck.


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## comiso90 (May 20, 2008)

Force them both the watch "Pearl Harbor" (w/o the flight scenes) over and over. The first one to surrender leaves the forum.

.


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## Matt308 (May 20, 2008)

Nevermind. I already left, Comiso. God that movie was horrific.


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## evangilder (May 20, 2008)

Even WITH the flight scenes, that movie blew...


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## Matt308 (May 20, 2008)

Blew chunks. 

So who blew who? Soren or Bill?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 21, 2008)

Soren said:


> Now that he didn't recieve a warning for this is beyond me as I have recieved warnings for way less, one example was me being rude towards glen which caused Adler PM'ing me and telling me to behave. (He's said it publicly as-well) But does Bill recieve a single warning, despite for being the first to throw the mud on several occasions, nope..



Allright Soren now you are pissing off! Do you want to do that? I will send you packing for a very long time. I have no problem doing it.

1. I never sent you a pm about you attacking glen. Now you are making **** up.

2. I only send you pm's when you flame people for no reason, which happens quite a bit.

3. Everytime I sent you a pm, I sent one to Bill as well. He recieved the same ****ing warnings as you did. He recieved the same amount of warnings as you did.

Now you want to lie about me and ****ing make **** up to try and make yourself look good.

*Do you want to pick a fight that you can not win? Lets go mother ******!*


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## Kurfürst (May 21, 2008)

All right now, calm down... everyone. This board begins to look like a nanny retirement community, everybody`s complaining now..


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 21, 2008)

Soren is going to bite off more than he can chew, making accusations like that.


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## Soren (May 21, 2008)

Adler,

Don't you remember telling me to get off my high horse when debating with glen on the WW2 in General forum some while ago ? That is what I was refering to.

I'm not trying to pick a fight and I'm certainly not making sh*t up Adler, I just can't understand why you're giving me public warnings for less than what Bill has pulled off recently.

And as for Bill recieving warnings via PM, ofcourse I can't know anything about that but I know atleast he got no public ones.

Again not trying to pick a fight, so don't take it personally.


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## lesofprimus (May 21, 2008)

Bill has been warned in the past, by me personally Soren, for the same sh!t, although, since he only goes off with u, its usually with a grain of salt... 

There are some here who like seeing u put into ur "place" so to speak... Bill has the ability to do this to an extent...


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## starling (May 21, 2008)

i was banned from ww2talk for being rude to a new member,and being a prick tried to log in under another name.i was going to apologise to said person,but was banned for life.i used to like arguing,laughing with a good bunch of people,i would say friends.and when you cannot leave the home,for my condition,you rely on other people to talk to.so carry on.as one mod says on the other forum;its only the internet.leave them alone.yours,lee.


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## drgondog (May 21, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Allright Soren now you are pissing off! Do you want to do that? I will send you packing for a very long time. I have no problem doing it.
> 
> 1. I never sent you a pm about you attacking glen. Now you are making **** up.
> 
> ...



True - my pinky's have been slapped by Chris, Dan and Joe...


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## drgondog (May 21, 2008)

Soren said:


> Adler,
> 
> Don't you remember telling me to get off my high horse when debating with glen on the WW2 in General forum some while ago ? That is what I was refering to.
> 
> ...



You have a selective memory.. 

Chris, Joe, Dan and I have had VERY public disputes which I realized had no purpose or benefit for me and decided that I enjoyed their company more than I enjoyed trying to pi#s them off. You are not in that company

Candidly, I would leave you alone except that you do not know how to express an opinion or a qualified statement. The challenge on the 109 above is an example of your personal style. Ditto the 'science versus the art of aeroelasticity'. I will reply shortly, but wish to use that as an illustration of personal friction based on your (and perhaps my) style

Secondly, you mix and match your facts often (not most of the time) to make your point. 

Third, you frequently dive into aero to attempt to prove some points and then attempt to browbeat or berate others who disagree either your point or approach. 

I take particular delight in pointing those out, then badgering you to 'fess up' when you make a really dumb mistake. Examples like the Lednicer Report come to mind, whether discussing Drag results in the model, pressure distributions or even structural/aerodynamic rationale for fw 190 high speed stall. That wasn't even about the theory - but the interpretation of simple results.

Even then, I would largely not care. See some of my comments to KK as an example when he starts swimming in waters that you populate, 'theoretically' speaking.

I am FAR from perfect. I make mistakes - some from ignorance, some from faulty memory - but very few from talking simply about stuff I know nothing about..

That about sums it up.

Regards,

Bill


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## Haztoys (May 21, 2008)

Soren

One thing you seem to all ways take the Germans side on most things ...You really have a good knowledge of ww11 and of what the Germans did...Lots more then I ...But your statements are so pro German a lot of what you say has lost weight...

And yes there's Americans and Brits and other do too ...I understand ...I always read what you post do to all your German knowledge...But your killing it the way you come across ...Sorry to get in this pissing contest ...I'm on the forum alot but just a student around here...You are one of the Gods of knowledge around here..And you muddy it up... I am a student on this forum ...But a God on some car and racing forums.. So why would I or you want to muddy up all are hard work...??...The books of the 60's and 70's have done that anuff about ww11...

Sorry to come across as a dick...I really do have the deepest respect for you and your German knowledge...


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## parsifal (May 21, 2008)

Are they the positive points Bill?


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## Erich (May 21, 2008)

personal observation gents..................this looks like it is going to go down a dark road with what type of objective - a slugging fest ? what would be the purpose except to give us all a good laugh ? hmmmmmmmmmm ..........

I think for all of us instead of having our reactions sitting on top of our shoulders all of us need to think for a time before we respond including myself, although I am close to perfection


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## Njaco (May 21, 2008)

indeed - and that post proves it!


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## Lucky13 (May 21, 2008)

Maybe these two gentlemen would "get along" much better if we changed this forum into something for crochet, knitting, tatting, embroidery, netting, point lace...etc. Njaco and Matt308 constantly tries to get me into this....thanks, but no thanks!    
Anyhoo, I personally feel that it would be a great loss for the forum as a whole if any of the "combatants" would be banned as they both have a tremendous knowledge about WWII aviation etc. Who knows, maybe when these two and others, battle things out, it spurrs others into looking deeper into subject at hand to form their own opinion about the topic, because many times I've stared at numbers, tables etc, that have meant absolutely nothing me, in some threads....only to find myself looking somewhere else to figure out what the h*ck they're talking about....
Even though it sometimes can be rough in the discussions around here, I feel that's only because that we're all passionate in what we're doing and each and everyone deserve all the respect for that...


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## ccheese (May 21, 2008)

I didn't see this thread until just now. I am surprised that any of the Mod's
allowed it to continue. IMHO it's in poor taste. I don't like it when two
members get into a whistling contest over something trivial, and like it even
less when one member picks on two others.

I think one of you Mod's should close this thread.

Charles


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## Hunter368 (May 21, 2008)

No one meant this thread as one that is picking on anyone CC. As you have seen Bill and Soren have a unending problem between them that is disruptive to this forum.

I was attempting to use some light hearted humor to make them see that. I believe it is working to a degree.

See Bill's post and Soren's post. Bill makes some very clear statements as to why he dogs Soren the way he does. Soren I think is starting to see that now, plus has posted what he thought was a double standard by the Mods. Which has also been cleared up by the Mods.

I think we are making progress here. There as been no personal attacks by anyone here vs anyone. I cannot say the same when you read these to guys chats back and forth on many threads. They go at each other like cats and dogs.

Both are great guys, both are smart guys.......but they just need to work out their problems with each other for the betterment of this forum. Or at least work out some way that is less disruptive to the form to settle their disputes (like a thread just for them to bash each other in).

This thread was meant as a funny way to get them to see their problems and see how it disrupts this forum they both love.


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## evangilder (May 21, 2008)

I have been thinking of doing just that, Charles. Before this gets too ugly, I will do just that.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 21, 2008)

Soren said:


> Adler,
> 
> Don't you remember telling me to get off my high horse when debating with glen on the WW2 in General forum some while ago ? That is what I was refering to.



I thought you were referring to this particular time, and this time I did not bust your chops this time.



Soren said:


> I'm not trying to pick a fight and I'm certainly not making sh*t up Adler, I just can't understand why you're giving me public warnings for less than what Bill has pulled off recently.



Soren I have given him many public warnings. If you choose not to read them, that is your own fricken fault!



Soren said:


> And as for Bill recieving warnings via PM, ofcourse I can't know anything about that but I know atleast he got no public ones.



Because it is none of your business if someone else recieves a warning through a PM, just as it is no one else's busines if you get one.



Soren said:


> Again not trying to pick a fight, so don't take it personally.



Dont take it personally? You called me out...

I answered!

You know where the pm button is if you want to continue this!


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