# August 21,1968-the end of Prague Spring



## seesul (Aug 21, 2008)

Hello,

today we have a sad 40th anniversary of the Soviet occupation of our country...
source: Prague Spring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*The Prague Spring (Czech: Pražské jaro, Slovak: Pražská jar)*

was a period of political liberalization in Czechoslovakia during the era of its domination by the Soviet Union after World War II. It began on January 5, 1968, when reformist Alexander Dubček came to power, and continued until August 21, when the Soviet Union and its Warsaw Pact allies invaded the country to halt the reforms.

The Prague Spring reforms were an attempt by Dubček to grant additional rights to the citizens in an act of partial decentralization of the economy and democratization. Among the freedoms granted were a loosening of restrictions on the media, speech and travel. Dubček also federalized the country into two separate republics; this was the only change that survived the end of the Prague Spring.

The reforms were not received well by the Soviets who, after failed negotiations, sent thousands of Warsaw Pact troops and tanks to occupy the country. A large wave of emigration swept the nation. While there were many non-violent protests in the country, including the protest-suicide of a student, there was no military resistance. Czechoslovakia remained occupied until 1990.

After the invasion, Czechoslovakia entered a period of normalization: subsequent leaders attempted to restore the political and economic values that had prevailed before Dubček gained control of the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia (KSČ). Gustáv Husák, who replaced Dubček and also became president, reversed almost all of Dubček's reforms. The Prague Spring has become immortalized in music and literature such as the work of Karel Kryl and Milan Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being.

*Background*

The process of destalinization in Czechoslovakia had begun under Antonín Novotný in the early 1960s, but had progressed slower than in most other socialist states of the Eastern Bloc.[1] Following the lead of Nikita Khrushchev, Novotný proclaimed the completion of socialism, and the new constitution,[2] accordingly, adopted the name Czechoslovak Socialist Republic. The pace of change, however, was sluggish; the rehabilitation of Stalinist-era victims, such as those convicted in the Slánský trials, may have been considered as early as 1963, but did not take place until 1967.[3] As the strict regime eased its rules, the Union of Czechoslovak Writers cautiously began to air discontent, and in the union's gazette, Literární noviny, members suggested that literature should be independent of Party doctrine.[4]

In June 1967, a small fraction of the Czech writer's union sympathized with radical socialists, specifically Ludvík Vaculík, Milan Kundera, Jan Procházka, Antonín Jaroslav Liehm, Pavel Kohout and Ivan Klíma.[4] A few months later, at a party meeting, it was decided that administrative actions against the writers who openly expressed support of reformation would be taken. Since only a small part of the union held these beliefs, the remaining members were relied upon to discipline their colleagues.[4] Control over Literární noviny and several other publishing houses was transferred to the ministry of culture,[4] and even members of the party who later became major reformers—including Dubček—endorsed these moves.[4]

In the early 1960s, Czechoslovakia, then officially known as the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic (ČSSR), underwent an economic downturn.[5] The Soviet model of industrialization applied poorly to Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia was already quite industrialized before World War II and the Soviet model mainly took into account less developed economies. Novotný's attempt at restructuring the economy, the 1965 New Economic Model, spurred increased demand for political reform as well.[6]

By 1967, president Antonín Novotný was losing support. First Secretary of the regional Communist Party of Slovakia, Alexander Dubček, and economist Ota Šik challenged him at a meeting of the Central Committee, and Dubček invited Soviet premier Leonid Brezhnev to Prague that December.[7] Brezhnev was surprised at the extent of the opposition to Novotný and supported his removal as Czechoslovakia's leader. Dubček thus replaced Novotný as First Secretary on January 5, 1968.[8] On March 22, 1968, Novotný resigned his presidency and was replaced by Ludvík Svoboda, who later gave consent to the reforms.[9]

*Liberalization and reform*

The Czechoslovak public knew nothing of the political infighting, and early signs of change were few. When the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia (KSČ) Presidium member Josef Smrkovský was interviewed in a Rudé Právo article, entitled "What Lies Ahead", he insisted that Dubček's appointment at the January Plenum would further the goals of socialism and maintain the working-class nature of the Communist Party.[10]

On the 20th anniversary of Czechoslovakia’s "Victorious February", Dubček delivered a speech explaining the need for change following the triumph of socialism. He emphasized the need to "enforce the leading role of the party more effectively"[11] and acknowledged that, despite Klement Gottwald's urgings for better relations with society, the Party had too often made heavy-handed rulings on trivial issues. Dubček declared the party's mission was "to build an advanced socialist society on sound economic foundations ... a socialism that corresponds to the historical democratic traditions of Czechoslovakia, in accordance with the experience of other communist parties ..."[11]

In April, Dubček launched an "Action Program" of liberalizations, which included increasing freedom of the press, freedom of speech, and freedom of movement, with economic emphasis on consumer goods and the possibility of a multiparty government. The program was based on the view that "Socialism cannot mean only liberation of the working people from the domination of exploiting class relations, but must make more provisions for a fuller life of the personality than any bourgeois democracy."[12] The program would limit the power of the secret police[13] and provide for the federalization of the ČSSR into two equal nations.[14] The Program also covered foreign policy, including both the maintenance of good relations with Western countries and cooperation with the Soviet Union and other communist nations.[15] It spoke of a ten year transition through which democratic elections would be made possible and a new form of democratic socialism would replace the status quo.[16]

Those who drafted the Program, however, were careful not to criticize the actions of the post-war communist regime, only to point out policies that they felt had outlived their usefulness.[17] For instance, the immediate post-war situation had required "centralist and directive-administrative methods"[17] to fight against the "remnants of the bourgeoisie."[17] Since the "antagonistic classes"[17] were said to have been defeated with the achievement of socialism, these methods were no longer necessary. Reform was needed, stated the Program, for the Czechoslovak economy to join the "scientific-technical revolution in the world"[17] rather than relying on Stalinist-era heavy industry, labor power, and raw materials.[17] Furthermore, since internal class conflict had been overcome, workers could now be duly rewarded for their qualifications and technical skills without contravening Marxist-Leninism. The Program suggested it was now necessary to ensure important positions were "filled by capable, educated socialist expert cadres" in order to compete with capitalism.[17]

Although the Action Program stipulated that reform must proceed under KSČ direction, popular pressure mounted to implement reforms immediately.[18] Radical elements became more vocal: anti-Soviet polemics appeared in the press (after the formal abolishment of censorship on June 26, 1968 ),[16] the Social Democrats began to form a separate party, and new unaffiliated political clubs were created. Party conservatives urged repressive measures, but Dubček counseled moderation and reemphasized KSČ leadership.[19] At the Presidium of the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia in April, Dubček announced a political program of "socialism with a human face".[20] In May, he announced that the Fourteenth Party Congress would convene in an early session on September 9. The congress would incorporate the Action Program into the party statutes, draft a federalization law, and elect a new Central Committee.[21]

Dubček's reforms guaranteed freedom of the press, and political commentary was allowed for the first time in mainstream media.[22] At the time of the Prague Spring, Czechoslovak exports were declining in competitiveness, and Dubček's reforms planned to solve these troubles by mixing planned and market economies. Within the party, there were varying opinions on how this should proceed; certain economists wished for a more mixed economy while others wanted the economy to remain mostly socialist. Dubček continued to stress the importance of economic reform proceeding under Communist Party rule.[23]

On June 27, Ludvík Vaculík, a leading author and journalist, published a manifesto titled The Two Thousand Words. It expressed concern about conservative elements within the KSČ and so-called "foreign" forces. Vaculík called on the people to take the initiative in implementing the reform program.[24] Dubček, the party Presidium, the National Front, and the cabinet denounced this manifesto.


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## seesul (Aug 21, 2008)

*Soviet reaction*

Initial reaction within the Communist Bloc was mixed. Hungary's János Kádár was highly supportive of Dubček's appointment in January, but Leonid Brezhnev and others grew concerned about Dubček's reforms, which they feared might weaken the position of the Communist Bloc during the Cold War.[26][27][28]

At a March 23 meeting in Dresden, leaders of "Warsaw Five" (USSR, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria and East Germany) questioned a Czechoslovak delegation over the planned reforms, suggesting any talk of "democratization" was a veiled critique of other policies.[29] Władysław Gomułka and Janos Kádár were less concerned with the reforms themselves, but with the growing criticisms leveled by the Czechoslovak media, and worried the situation might be "similar to the prologue of the Hungarian counterrevolution".[29] Some of the language in April's KSČ Action Program may have been chosen to assert that no counterrevolution was planned, but Kieran Williams suggests that Dubček was perhaps surprised at, but not resentful of, Soviet suggestions.[30]

The Soviet leadership tried to stop or limit the changes in the ČSSR through a series of negotiations. The Soviet Union agreed to bilateral talks with Czechoslovakia in July at Čierna nad Tisou, near the Slovak-Soviet border. At the meeting, Dubček defended the program of the reformist wing of the KSČ while pledging commitment to the Warsaw Pact and Comecon.[15] The KSČ leadership, however, was divided between vigorous reformers (Josef Smrkovský, Oldřich Černík, and František Kriegel) who supported Dubček, and conservatives (Vasil Biľak, Drahomír Kolder, and Oldřich Švestka) who adopted an anti-reformist stance. Brezhnev decided on compromise. The KSČ delegates reaffirmed their loyalty to the Warsaw Pact and promised to curb "anti-socialist" tendencies, prevent the revival of the Czechoslovak Social Democratic Party, and control the press more effectively. The Soviets agreed to withdraw their troops (still in Czechoslovakia after maneuvers back in June) and permit the September 9 party congress.[31]

On August 3, representatives from the Soviet Union, East Germany, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, and Czechoslovakia met in Bratislava and signed the Bratislava Declaration. The declaration affirmed unshakable fidelity to Marxism-Leninism and proletarian internationalism and declared an implacable struggle against "bourgeois" ideology and all "anti-socialist" forces.[32] The Soviet Union expressed its intention to intervene in a Warsaw Pact country if a "bourgeois" system—a pluralist system of several political parties representing different factions of the capitalist class—was ever established. After the Bratislava conference, Soviet troops left Czechoslovak territory but remained along its borders.[33]

*Invasion*

As these talks proved unsatisfactory, the Soviets began to consider a military alternative. The Soviet Union's policy of compelling the socialist governments of its satellite states to subordinate their national interests to those of the "Eastern Bloc" (through military force if needed) became known as the Brezhnev Doctrine.[34] On the night of August 20–21, 1968, Eastern Bloc armies from four Warsaw Pact countries — the Soviet Union, Bulgaria, Poland and Hungary — invaded the ČSSR.[35][36]. Contrary to popular belief, East German forces were actually not involved, as Brezhnev and the commander-in-chief of the Warsaw Pact, Ivan Yakubovsky, didn't want to bear any resemblance to the 1938 German occupation of Czechoslovakia. That night, 200,000 Warsaw Pact troops and 2,000 tanks entered the country.[37] The troops first occupied the Ruzyně International Airport, where air deployment of more troops was arranged. The Czechoslovak forces were confined to their own barracks and were surrounded until the threat of a counter-attack was assuaged. By the morning of August 21, Czechoslovakia was occupied.[36]

Neither Romania nor Albania took part in the invasion, and the latter withdrew from the pact over the matter.[38] During the attack of the Warsaw Pact armies, 72 Czechs and Slovaks were killed (19 of those in Slovakia), 266 severely wounded and another 436 were lightly injured.[39][40] Alexander Dubček called upon his people not to resist.[40]

Although on the night of the invasion the Czechoslovak Presidium declared that Warsaw Pact troops had crossed the border without the knowledge of the ČSSR government, the Soviet Press printed an unsigned request, allegedly by Czechoslovak party and state leaders, for "immediate assistance, including assistance with armed forces".[41] At the 14th KSČ Party Congress (conducted secretly, immediately following the intervention), it was emphasized that no member of the leadership had invited the intervention.[42] More recent evidence suggests that certain conservative KSČ members (including Biľak, Švestka, Kolder, Indra, and Kapek) did send a request for intervention to the Soviets.[43] The invasion was followed by a wave of emigration, unseen before, which stopped shortly after. An estimated 70,000 fled immediately, and the total eventually reached 300,000.[44]

The Soviets attributed the invasion to the "Brezhnev Doctrine" which stated that the U.S.S.R has the right to intervene whenever a country in the Eastern Bloc appeared to be making a shift towards capitalism.[45] There is still some uncertainty, however, as to what provocation, if any, occurred to make the Warsaw Pact armies invade. The days leading up to the invasion was a rather calm period without any major events taking place in Czechoslovakia.[46]

*Reactions to the invasion*

In Czechoslovakia, popular opposition to the invasion was expressed in numerous spontaneous acts of nonviolent resistance. On January 19, 1969, student Jan Palach set himself on fire in Prague's Wenceslas Square to protest against the renewed suppression of free speech.[47] The generalized resistance caused the Soviet Union to abandon its original plan to oust the First Secretary. Dubček, who had been arrested on the night of August 20, was taken to Moscow for negotiations. There, he and several other leaders signed the Moscow Protocol and it was agreed that Dubček would remain in office and a program of moderate reform would continue.

On August 25, citizens of the Soviet Union who did not approve of the invasion protested on the Red Square; eight protesters opened banners with anti-invasion slogans. The demonstrators were arrested and later punished; the protest was dubbed "anti-Soviet".[48]

A more pronounced effect took place in Communist Romania, where leader Nicolae Ceauşescu, already a staunch opponent of Soviet influences and a self-declared Dubček's supporter, gave a public speech in Bucharest on the day of the invasion, depicting Soviet policies in harsh terms.[38] In Finland, a country under domineering Soviet political influence, the occupation caused a major scandal.[49] Like the Italian and French[50] Communist Parties, the Communist Party of Finland denounced the occupation. Nonetheless, Finnish president Urho Kekkonen was the very first Western politician to officially visit Czechoslovakia after August 1968; he received the highest Czechoslovakian honors from the hands of president Ludvík Svoboda, on October 4, 1969.[49] The Portuguese communist secretary-general Álvaro Cunhal was one of few political leaders from western Europe to have supported the invasion for being counterrevolutionary.[51] along with the Luxembourg party[50] and conservative factions of the Greek party.[50]

Western countries offered only vocal criticism following the invasion. The night of the invasion, Canada, Denmark, France, Paraguay, the United Kingdom and the United States requested a meeting of the United Nations Security Council.[52] At the meeting, the Czechoslovak ambassador Jan Muzik denounced the invasion. Soviet ambassador Jacob Malik insisted the Warsaw Pact actions were "fraternal assistance" against "antisocial forces".[52] The next day, several countries suggested a resolution condemning the intervention and calling for immediate withdrawal. Eventually, a vote was taken. Ten members supported the motion; Algeria, India, and Pakistan abstained; the USSR (with veto power) and Hungary opposed it. Canadian delegates immediately introduced another motion asking for a UN representative to travel to Prague and work toward the release of the imprisoned Czechoslovak leaders.[52] By August 26, another vote had not taken place, but a new Czechoslovak representative requested the whole issue be removed from the Security Council's agenda. The United States government had sent Shirley Temple Black to Prague in August 1968 to prepare to become the first United States ambassador to a free Czechoslovakia. Two decades later, when Czechoslovakia became independent, Black was the first United States ambassador to the country.[53]


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## seesul (Aug 21, 2008)

*Aftermath*

In April 1969, Dubček was replaced as first secretary by Gustáv Husák, and a period of "normalization" began.[54] Dubček was expelled from the KSČ and given a job as a forestry official.[55][14]

Husák reversed Dubček's reforms, purged the party of its liberal members, and dismissed from public office professional and intellectual elites who openly expressed disagreement with the political transformation.[56] Husák worked to reinstate the power of the police authorities and strengthen ties with other socialist nations. He also sought to re-centralize the economy, as a considerable amount of freedom had been granted to industries during the Prague Spring.[56] Commentary on politics was disallowed again in mainstream media and political statements by anyone who was not considered to have "full political trust" were also banned.[22] The only significant change that survived was the federalization of the country, which created the Czech Socialist Republic and the Slovak Socialist Republic in 1969.

In 1987, the Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev acknowledged that his liberalizing policies of glasnost and perestroika owed a great deal to Dubček's "socialism with a human face".[57] With the fall of socialism in 1989, Dubček became chairman of the federal assembly under the Havel administration.[58] When asked what the difference was between the Prague Spring and Gorbachev's own reforms, a Foreign Ministry spokesman replied, "Nineteen years."[59]


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## seesul (Aug 21, 2008)

pics...


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## seesul (Aug 21, 2008)

another pics2....


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## seesul (Aug 21, 2008)

...another pics3...


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## seesul (Aug 21, 2008)

...another pics4...


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## JugBR (Aug 21, 2008)

absolute wonderfull pics seesul ! i think that pictures told the history by itselves. great post !!!

regards !


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 21, 2008)

Great stuff Roman - I remember when this took place, for weeks all I remember hearing about was Alexander Dubček and the way he was confronting the Soviets. 25 years a head of his time but the writing was on the wall.


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## seesul (Aug 21, 2008)

JugBR said:


> i think that pictures told the history by itselves.
> 
> regards !



That´s my opinion too...


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## seesul (Aug 21, 2008)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Great stuff Roman - I remember when this took place, for weeks all I remember hearing about was Alexander Dubček and the way he was confronting the Soviets. 25 years a head of his time but the writing was on the wall.



My father was in the army back then as he served since 1968 till 1969. Russians locked our soldiers in the barracks for a week or so to avoid a resistance...
Then we had to wait next 20 years for a freedom...


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## Thorlifter (Aug 21, 2008)

Great stuff Roman. This was before my time and I really didn't know too much about it. Thanks for posting.


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## seesul (Aug 21, 2008)

Thorlifter said:


> Great stuff Roman. This was before my time and I really didn't know too much about it. Thanks for posting.



You´re welcome!
I also don´t know everything about history...this is what the books are for...but...I wish I had a time to read them...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 21, 2008)

Thanks for sharing Roman!

It really is sad that this had to happen.


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## Erich (Aug 21, 2008)

I as Joe remember this quite well as it seemed to be the first real contest broadcasted on TV against the Russki's, with Molotav's thrown in the air. as we were getting involved in Nam I was asking myself where was I headed .........

don't be too surprised that indeed it may happen again


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 21, 2008)

Erich said:


> don't be too surprised that indeed it may happen again



I agree...

Ukraine maybe?


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## pbfoot (Aug 21, 2008)

Erich said:


> I as Joe remember this quite well as it seemed to be the first real contest broadcasted on TV against the Russki's, with Molotav's thrown in the air. as we were getting involved in Nam I was asking myself where was I headed .........
> 
> don't be too surprised that indeed it may happen again


I was trying to remember if it was on TV as a live event . For years afterwords the only place the Czechoslovaks were able get their licks in on the Sovirts was in Hockey


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## Erich (Aug 21, 2008)

surprisingly in my local it was pb. I remember even at a younger age how scared the Russki soldiers looked


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## seesul (Aug 22, 2008)

pbfoot said:


> I was trying to remember if it was on TV as a live event . For years afterwords the only place the Czechoslovaks were able get their licks in on the Sovirts was in Hockey



yep...unfortunately...


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## lesofprimus (Aug 22, 2008)

My Great Grandmother was over there when the Russians invaded, visiting relatives.... I heard some real horrors from her up until she passed away.... Till the day she died, she cursed anytime something Russian came up, from TV and movies to the news...


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## Njaco (Aug 22, 2008)

Great post, Roman. Thanks!


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## seesul (Aug 22, 2008)

Thank you friends!
Glad to know you like this thread...
I´m posting another pics yet...


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## seesul (Aug 22, 2008)

...more pics2...


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## seesul (Aug 22, 2008)

...more pics3...


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## seesul (Aug 22, 2008)

...more pics4...


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## seesul (Aug 22, 2008)

...more pics5...


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## pbfoot (Aug 22, 2008)

Erich said:


> surprisingly in my local it was pb. I remember even at a younger age how scared the Russki soldiers looked


That was probably the most eventful summer in history all the rioting in the US RFK , Maartin Luther King assaninated , Biafra , Democratic convention . Pope bans contraceptives, first black guy ever wins Medal of Honour
as for Mosic the rise and fall of the Tardbirds
Led Zep , Rush , Cream , Deep Purple created
Gilmour joined Floyd


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## JugBR (Aug 22, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I agree...
> 
> Ukraine maybe?



ukraine isnt a soviet´s satelite state, its a sovereign country, why should the russians intervent over a foreign country to contain a public manifestation ? im not siyng its totally impossible, but wich scenario could led russia to invade ukraine to fight againt protesters ?


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## seesul (Aug 23, 2008)

JugBR said:


> ukraine isnt a soviet´s satelite state, its a sovereign country, why should the russians intervent over a foreign country to contain a public manifestation ? im not siyng its totally impossible, but wich scenario could led russia to invade ukraine to fight againt protesters ?



´cause Ukraine is in their sphere of interest. Russia lost a lot of teritory of their political influence at the end of 80´s as east germany,poland,czechoslovakia and hungary...and doesn´t want to loose any country anymore...
We were also sovereign country in ´68 but you know what happened then...
Do you know there are negotations between USA-Poland-Czech Republic about US anti missiles defence? USA want to have missiles in Poland and anti missiles radar in Czech Republic...you should hear Russian (and especially Putin´s) expressions after every movement in the negotations...
...and btw, Ukraine wants to join NATO...


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## stasoid (Aug 23, 2008)

evil russians


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## Ramirezzz (Aug 23, 2008)

sad pictures Seesul. That's the part of our common history which should never be repeated.



seesul said:


> ...and btw, Ukraine wants to join NATO...



their prowestern goverment wants. About 60% of Ukrainans are against it.
And military confrontation with Ukraine is something beyond any imagination. That's virtually impossible.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 23, 2008)

JugBR said:


> ukraine isnt a soviet´s satelite state, its a sovereign country, why should the russians intervent over a foreign country to contain a public manifestation ? im not siyng its totally impossible, but wich scenario could led russia to invade ukraine to fight againt protesters ?



Czechoslovakia was a sovereign state as well.

I did not say anything about invading because of protesters or anything....

I just said that Ukraine *could* be a future target of Russia, in Russia's bid to regain a sphere of influence and become a world super power again. Put emphasis on *could*.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 23, 2008)

seesul said:


> Do you know there are negotations between USA-Poland-Czech Republic about US anti missiles defence? USA want to have missiles in Poland and anti missiles radar in Czech Republic...



Roman as a Czech citizen, what is your opinion on the matter of the Nuclear Missile Defence system? I think it would be great to hear the opinions of the people from these countries.

I think I will start a thread as well...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 23, 2008)

stasoid said:


> evil russians



I would be really interested in seeing what your original post was...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 23, 2008)

Ramirezzz said:


> their prowestern goverment wants. About 60% of Ukrainans are against it.
> And military confrontation with Ukraine is something beyond any imagination. That's virtually impossible.



I would not say impossible my friend. You never know what will happen in this volotile world.

I certainly hope not however, for the sake of the world and for the sake our great nations. 

Believe it or not (despite all the talk that goes on in this forum), I have no problem with the Russian people. Just as you dislike our government, I dislike and have a strong distrust for the Russian government. 

I however have nothing against the Russian people. I have several Russian friends and even dated a Russian girl for a while before I met my wife. I have always been interested and fascinated in Russian culture and food. When I was a child growing up, my dream was to work as Foriegn Service Worker at the US Embassy in Moscow in the Soviet Union (the fall of the Soviet Union kind of destroyed that dream! ), and when I was in High School I even tried to learn Russian. I still know a few words and phrases.


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## Ramirezzz (Aug 23, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Just as you dislike our government


I wouldn't say I dislike it - its foreign policy simply has at the moment too many points where the USA interests contradict to the interests of Russia. So as a Russian citizen I can't agree with it but objectively speaking it's Bush goverment "real politics" and I can't really blame them for that. Anyway I truly miss the golden years of the US-Russ relations under Clinton administration, even if that partnership was sometimes rather destructive to the Russian economy despite all credits given etc and some terrible miscalculations were made by both sides.



> I still know a few words and phrases.



ruki vverch?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 23, 2008)

Ramirezzz said:


> ruki vverch?



That is not one of them. I will try and write them on here later.


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## Pisis (Aug 23, 2008)

Great post Roman! Thanks for doing it so comprehensively. Every other year, it was me who was putting up the anniversary here. I'm glad I have a reliable successeor. But the main reason was that my PC got f***ed up...

I was getting through the anniversary very extensively this year, I had watched the special programs on the Czech TV and studied books and articles that were written about this theme.

Brother of my mother-in-law was one among those several hundred victims that the Russians left behind when they had entered this country...

The more I was digusţed, when I attended a "performance" (I don't know how to describe this better!) in front of the National Museum in Prague (situated on Prague's main boulevard, it was mistaken for a Czechoslovakian Parliament by the Soviets, hence they opened fire on it). So, there was a Russian T-54 type tank installed, with its gun pointed at the museum building, with five guys sitting on it, dressed like Soviet soldiers. Czech! people walking around were placing their own kids on the tank and were taking photos of them, smiling, like it would be some ****ing attraction or something... 

But I was really waken up from the letargy when I saw some Russian tourists, being photographed in front of the tank by their fellow and posing very victoriously. From an angle so the Prague Castle could be seen on the picture...

Well, Cold War II has just started.


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## Pisis (Aug 23, 2008)

I've found banana box that once belonged to my wife's grandpa, who was a journalist, with a set of blacknwhite photographs that were taken by his friend on the day of the occupation [21st Aug 1968] that were actually never published! I have my plans how to publish them.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 23, 2008)

Pisis said:


> I've found banana box that once belonged to my wife's grandpa



Woh did I miss something here? Are you married now?

If I missed this before, I truely apologize!!! Congratulations my friend!


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## Ramirezzz (Aug 23, 2008)

Pisis said:


> But I was really waken up from the letargy when I saw some Russian tourists, being photographed in front of the tank by their fellow and posing very victoriously. From an angle so the Prague Castle could be seen on the picture...



hey do ya really think Russians are kind of proud of that events or they see it as their victory or something? Those guys were some ordinary tourists who probably had not a clue what happened there 40 years ago and just wanted to take a good shot.


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## JugBR (Aug 24, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Woh did I miss something here? Are you married now?
> 
> If I missed this before, I truely apologize!!! Congratulations my friend!



i think he means the wife of his grampa.


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## JugBR (Aug 24, 2008)

Pisis said:


> Great post Roman! Thanks for doing it so comprehensively. Every other year, it was me who was putting up the anniversary here. I'm glad I have a reliable successeor. But the main reason was that my PC got f***ed up...
> 
> I was getting through the anniversary very extensively this year, I had watched the special programs on the Czech TV and studied books and articles that were written about this theme.
> 
> ...



how is described a victorious posing ?







thats a result i foung in google. why should they was posing victoriously, since that same repression that happened in prague was the same that they suffered in russia ?

btw, prague is a beautifull metropolis, congrats, i thing one of the jewels of europe !


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## Pisis (Aug 24, 2008)

Ramirezzz said:


> hey do ya really think Russians are kind of proud of that events or they see it as their victory or something? Those guys were some ordinary tourists who probably had not a clue what happened there 40 years ago and just wanted to take a good shot.


Not really. They had very good clue. I'm not saying all of Ruskoje malchiki are like that though - I have some really good friends in Poccia. 



JugBR said:


> i think he means the wife of his grampa.


Nope. My better half's mother.



JugBR said:


> how is described a victorious posing ?[/IMG]


It was something like this:




Don't take me wrong, I'm not paranoiac, they were very well aware of what the whole damn thing is about. And yes, they were Russians.



DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Woh did I miss something here? Are you married now?
> 
> If I missed this before, I truely apologize!!! Congratulations my friend


Keine Sorge, my friend, you DID NOT MISS ANYTHING, because I did not post any info about it.


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## Ramirezzz (Aug 24, 2008)

Pisis said:


> Not really. They had very good clue.



Then read this:


*В канун 40-й годовщины ввода войск стран – участниц Варшавского договора на территорию Чехословакии Фонд «Общественное мнение» (ФОМ) провел опрос россиян, чтобы выяснить их осведомленность о тех драматических событиях. Результаты исследования плачевны: треть респондентов заявили экспертам ФОМ, что впервые от них об этом слышат. А среди тех, кто знает, чем ознаменовался август 68-го, немало давших точно такие оценки, которыми пестрели в те дни страницы советских газет. Эксперты ФОМ обращают внимание на то, что даже среди современников оккупации братской страны каждый шестой признался в полном неведении о танках на улицах Праги.*

В 2 часа ночи 21 августа 1968 года на аэродроме «Рузине» под Прагой высадились части советской 7-й воздушно-десантной дивизии. В течение дня войска стран Варшавского договора заняли основные объекты на территории Чехословакии. Целью операции была смена политического руководства страны и установление в ней лояльного СССР режима. Эти события не только за рубежом, но и у нас многие назвали позорными.

«Танки идут по Праге /в закатной крови рассвета. /Танки идут по правде, которая не газета... /Чем же мне жить, как прежде, /если, как будто рубанки, /танки идут по надежде, /что это – родные танки?» – написал в августе 68-го Евгений Евтушенко. Дать принципиально иную, чем тогда, оценку этим событиям, российские власти так и не удосужились. Вот, вероятно, главная причина весьма неожиданных ответов наших сограждан на вопросы ФОМ, приуроченные к 40-летию оккупации ЧССР.

*Так, 34% заявили, что впервые слышат о вводе советских войск в Чехословакию. Полную неосведомленность проявили 58% респондентов в возрасте до 35 лет. Если это и объяснимо их молодостью, то не может не удивлять, что среди людей старше 55 лет каждый шестой впервые услышал о событиях, современником которых был, от интервьюера ФОМ. Эксперты предполагают, что информация, скорее всего, полностью выветрилась из памяти этих респондентов, поскольку они считают ее несущественной.

Около трети опрошенных, по их словам, «что-то знают» о вторжении в Чехословакию, столько же – «что-то слышали» об этом. Им был задан дополнительный вопрос о причинах ввода войск – и половина из них ничего конкретного сказать по данному поводу не смогли. Чаще всего звучали ответы: «политические дела», «опять что-то не поделили», «такая сложилась ситуация».*

Taken from "Novye Izvestia" of 18th August 2008:

 / " , ...". 1968 

Shall I translate it or you get along with an automatic translator?


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## seesul (Aug 24, 2008)

Ramirezzz said:


> sad pictures Seesul. That's the part of our common history which should never be repeated.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don´t worry Ramirezzz, my friend. I absolutely have no problems with people and never divide them according their origin or nation. I have friends all over the world...
The only people I don´t like are the people with neonazi, communists, terrorists,racist or violent thoughts...

Also you don´t have any fault on events that happened 40 years ago...

And hope you´re right with virtually impossible attack on Ukraine....


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## seesul (Aug 24, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Roman as a Czech citizen, what is your opinion on the matter of the Nuclear Missile Defence system? I think it would be great to hear the opinions of the people from these countries.
> 
> I think I will start a thread as well...



Good question Kris, I have expected it one day 
Well, me personally, I don´t have a problem with radar. The problem is the lack of information. Our goverment makes a big mistake with an information system which caused that most of the people don´t want to have this radar here.
USA and our goverment says this thing is against Iran and Russia says it will be able to scan also their territory...where´s the true know only USA.
So, again, should it really be agaist Iran as oficially declared, I don´t have any reason to be against it...
I´m very sorry that USA and Russia didn´t find a common word so far...
One thing is sure, if we want to be a part of Allies, we also have to invest something into common defence system...Our investment in this case is, that this radar would be the target # 1 in case of missile war...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 24, 2008)

seesul said:


> Good question Kris, I have expected it one day
> Well, me personally, I don´t have a problem with radar. The problem is the lack of information. Our goverment makes a big mistake with an information system which caused that most of the people don´t want to have this radar here.
> USA and our goverment says this thing is against Iran and Russia says it will be able to scan also their territory...where´s the true know only USA.
> So, again, should it really be agaist Iran as oficially declared, I don´t have any reason to be against it...
> ...



Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. I really do like your opinion on people as well, and I really try and have the same thoughts as well.


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## Pisis (Jan 13, 2009)

Ramirezzz said:


> Then read this:
> 
> 
> *В канун 40-й годовщины ввода войск стран – участниц Варшавского договора на территорию Чехословакии Фонд «Общественное мнение» (ФОМ) провел опрос россиян, чтобы выяснить их осведомленность о тех драматических событиях. Результаты исследования плачевны: треть респондентов заявили экспертам ФОМ, что впервые от них об этом слышат. А среди тех, кто знает, чем ознаменовался август 68-го, немало давших точно такие оценки, которыми пестрели в те дни страницы советских газет. Эксперты ФОМ обращают внимание на то, что даже среди современников оккупации братской страны каждый шестой признался в полном неведении о танках на улицах Праги.*
> ...


Sorry, I don't read very well Russian. Romans, as an older pupil, probably manages somehow, but I already didn't have to study Russian in school. And I agree 100% with Roman's definition about sorting people.


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