# "OH OH"



## billrunnels (Nov 27, 2017)

The aircraft assigned to one of our training missions was an old B-17F. We took off and our radio operator reported gas was flowing over the top skin of the wing into the exhaust flame of #3 engine. It didn't take us long to get back on the ground. The service crew failed to put the gas cap on after filling the tanks. This was the shortest flight of my military career.

Reactions: Like Like:
4 | Winner Winner:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## pbehn (Nov 27, 2017)

Great post Bill. Whatever can go wrong eventually will go wrong, I think the US and UK involvement in so many flights led to the formation of civilian airline safety procedures. In the above case "how about a gas tank cap that cant be left on the ground?


----------



## billrunnels (Nov 27, 2017)

pbehn said:


> Great post Bill. Whatever can go wrong eventually will go wrong, I think the US and UK involvement in so many flights led to the formation of civilian airline safety procedures. In the above case "how about a gas tank cap that cant be left on the ground?


Why not. They have them on cars.


----------



## Crimea_River (Nov 27, 2017)

Good thing it didn't catch fire!


----------



## billrunnels (Nov 27, 2017)

Crimea_River said:


> Good thing it didn't catch fire!


At the time that was our concern. Hind sight suggests that chance of fire was unlikely since the fumes evaporated out in the open.


----------



## fubar57 (Nov 27, 2017)

I've been slowly going through the mission histories that I downloaded and noticed on a lot of missions, 1-4 aircraft aborted the mission for various reasons. Did you ever talk to these crews after the missions? I can imagine there must have been regret and feeling of letting the side down


----------



## pbehn (Nov 27, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> Why not. They have them on cars.


That is then and now, I remember all the cars and motorcycles I owned in the seventies and eighties just had a screw cap, but if they catch fire they don't fall out of the sky.


----------



## billrunnels (Nov 27, 2017)

fubar57 said:


> I've been slowly going through the mission histories that I downloaded and noticed on a lot of missions, 1-4 aircraft aborted the mission for various reasons. Did you ever talk to these crews after the missions? I can imagine there must have been regret and feeling of letting the side down


To abort was a disappointment. So much time was spent preparing for the flight and to end up with no mission credit was hard to take. The one mission we had to abort was after we were in enemy territory 15 minutes. No mission credit because we did not drop the payload on an assigned target. I did not talk to others who had a similar experience but I am certain they had much the same feelings. Our individual goal was to fly often and go home early. With a little luck this could be done in a two month period. After being assigned lead crew bombardier status, I didn't fly as often. I used to plead for mission assignment so I could go home a young man.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## gumbyk (Nov 27, 2017)

pbehn said:


> That is then and now, I remember all the cars and motorcycles I owned in the seventies and eighties just had a screw cap, but if they catch fire they don't fall out of the sky.


because they still get forgotten, and the gas cap flaps around in the wind and causes plenty of damage to the wing, before the chain breaks and the cap is lost forever.

Not that I have first-hand experience of this or anything....


----------



## fubar57 (Nov 27, 2017)

Thanks Bill


----------



## pbehn (Nov 27, 2017)

gumbyk said:


> because they still get forgotten, and the gas cap flaps around in the wind and causes plenty of damage to the wing, before the chain breaks and the cap is lost forever.
> 
> Not that I have first-hand experience of this or anything....


In UK locking caps were not a safety issue, they appeared very quickly in the late 1970s due to the oil crisis, people started stealing petrol from parked cars and bikes.


----------



## billrunnels (Nov 27, 2017)

pbehn said:


> In UK locking caps were not a safety issue, they appeared very quickly in the late 1970s due to the oil crisis, people started stealing petrol from parked cars and bikes.


We had the same problem over here.


----------



## billrunnels (Nov 27, 2017)

gumbyk said:


> because they still get forgotten, and the gas cap flaps around in the wind and causes plenty of damage to the wing, before the chain breaks and the cap is lost forever.
> 
> Not that I have first-hand experience of this or anything....


I am sure you are correct.


----------



## gumbyk (Nov 27, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> We had the same problem over here.


We still do...
Although, given that there's a drain in the bottom of the tank that's easy to access, and doesn't require siphoning you have to wonder.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Jimbob (Dec 1, 2017)

During the gas crunch in the 1970s here people would only steal your gas if you had a non locking gas cap, but, would ice pick the bottom of your fuel tank and steal your gas if you had a locking cap. We used to call the syphon hoses Oklahoma Credit Cards.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Gnomey (Dec 2, 2017)

Great stuff Bill!


----------



## Tieleader (May 26, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> To abort was a disappointment. So much time was spent preparing for the flight and to end up with no mission credit was hard to take. The one mission we had to abort was after we were in enemy territory 15 minutes. No mission credit because we did not drop the payload on an assigned target. I did not talk to others who had a similar experience but I am certain they had much the same feelings. Our individual goal was to fly often and go home early. With a little luck this could be done in a two month period. After being assigned lead crew bombardier status, I didn't fly as often. I used to plead for mission assignment so I could go home a young man.


Why did you fly fewer missions as a lead? I would imagine that wise thing to do would be to put your best assets in the air against the enemy.


----------



## billrunnels (May 26, 2018)

Tieleader said:


> Why did you fly fewer missions as a lead? I would imagine that wise thing to do would be to put your best assets in the air against the enemy.



The lead assignment came only after completing a number of missions to gain experience. The Squadron Bombardier selected the time.


----------



## Tieleader (May 26, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> The lead assignment came only after completing a number of missions to gain experience. The Squadron Bombardier selected the time.


So there was no preset number of hours or missions? More like if the CO thought you now capable of doing the job?


----------



## billrunnels (May 26, 2018)

Tieleader said:


> So there was no preset number of hours or missions? More like if the CO thought you now capable of doing the job?


That is correct. Also, as a lead would finish his tour the vacancy would be filled.


----------



## Tieleader (May 26, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> That is correct. Also, as a lead would finish his tour the vacancy would be filled.


So you had to be best of all the bombardiers to even get the job. Amazing! I can't even change the oil in my car and here you were going though all those procedures at altitude just to stay alive. Much less even while being shot at. I'm feeling very inadequate right now...
BTW never knew about the oxy checks. Keep the stories coming!


----------



## billrunnels (May 26, 2018)

Tieleader said:


> So you had to be best of all the bombardiers to even get the job. Amazing! I can't even change the oil in my car and here you were going though all those procedures at altitude just to stay alive. Much less even while being shot at. I'm feeling very inadequate right now...
> BTW never knew about the oxy checks. Keep the stories coming!


I don't know about being the best bombardier, being available also had a hand in the selection process.


----------



## Tieleader (May 26, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> I don't know about being the best bombardier, being available also had a hand in the selection process.


 Its not bragging if its true!
My friend's dad was a waist gunner on B-17s . He said that his father didn't talk much at all about his time in combat but he stated something similar to you quoted earlier. The freezing cold was the worst part of his job and that the heated suits only helped very little. Don't known if he flew in the models with the enclosed plexiglass windows or not. We think all his records were lost when that warehouse with the documents went in flames , so we do't even have a time line.

Reactions: Informative Informative:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## billrunnels (May 26, 2018)

Tieleader said:


> Its not bragging if its true!
> My friend's dad was a waist gunner on B-17s . He said that his father didn't talk much at all about his time in combat but he stated something similar to you quoted earlier. The freezing cold was the worst part of his job and that the heated suits only helped very little. Don't known if he flew in the models with the enclosed plexiglass windows or not. We think all his records were lost when that warehouse with the documents went in flames , so we do't even have a time line.


I can't imagine how cold it would be in the waist gunners position without the plexiglass windows. My heated suit worked pretty good.


----------



## Tieleader (May 26, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> I can't imagine how cold it would be in the waist gunners position without the plexiglass windows. My heated suit worked pretty good.


As I recall only the later G model 17s had the windows. Also the waist gunner positions were slightly staggered in the fuselage to try and eliminate the "cheek to cheek dancing" that must have screwed up the aiming of those guns by bumping into each other.

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------

