# SBD Dauntless



## Njaco (Apr 6, 2009)

I didn't know where to put a thread like this so here it is.

The next Group Build in the Modelling Section is on the PTO. I've decided to finish a Dauntless that my father semi started. But I have no clue about the plane, who flew or camo schemes. I think I want to portray a Dauntless that flew from the US carriers at Midway but I don't have any info. I think Lucky is doing Swede's Dauntless and this might help him also. So.....

What Dauntless units were involved at Midway?

What were their markings / camo?

What type/mark of Dauntless was at Midway? SBD-1, -2, -3, -4, -5?

Is there much external difference between a SBD-1 and a SBD-3? Or any of the others?

Thanks!


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## GrauGeist (Apr 6, 2009)

How about the SBD that Lt. Stanley W. ""Swede" Vejtasa flew?

Pretty sure he was with VS-5 while flying the Dauntless...


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## Njaco (Apr 6, 2009)

Lucky is doing his I believe. Didn't want to duplicate. I have no idea where to start.,


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## Amsel (Apr 6, 2009)

> [edit] Bibliography
> Bowers, Peter M. United States Navy Aircraft since 1911. Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press, 1990. ISBN 0-87021-792-5.
> Brazelton, David. The Douglas SBD Dauntless, Aircraft in Profile 196. Leatherhead, Surrey, UK: Profile Publications Ltd., 1967. No ISBN.
> Brown, Eric, CBE, DCS, AFC, RN., William Green and Gordon Swanborough. "Douglas Dauntless". Wings of the Navy, Flying Allied Carrier Aircraft of World War Two. London: Jane's Publishing Company, 1980, pp. 52–60. ISBN 0-7106-0002-X.
> ...


 This help?


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## Amsel (Apr 6, 2009)

THE SBD IN COMBAT


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Apr 6, 2009)

This might help Njaco. It bears the markings of VB-3, from the USS Yorktown I believe.


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## comiso90 (Apr 6, 2009)

Paintings #1: The Pacific Air War

Hasegawa 1/48 SBD-3 Dauntless, by Ralph Koziarski

.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 6, 2009)

Njaco said:


> Lucky is doing his I believe. Didn't want to duplicate. I have no idea where to start.,



Ahh...well, heck...

We'll find one for ya'!


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## GrauGeist (Apr 7, 2009)

Hey! I think I may have found one of interest for you, NJ!

From the Naval Aviation Museum:


> *SBD-2 Dauntless BuNo 2106*
> 
> Rolling off the Douglas Aircraft Company assembly line in El Segundo, California, in December 1940, SBD-2 Dauntless (Bureau Number 2106) was delivered to Bombing Squadron (VB) 2 at Naval Air Station (NAS) San Diego, California, on the last day of 1940. For the better part of the following year the aircraft flew with that squadron, logging hours flying from the deck of the aircraft carrier Lexington (CV 2) and participating in large-scale military maneuvers in Louisiana.
> 
> ...


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## Njaco (Apr 7, 2009)

Now that last one looks interesting! SBD-2 from Midway - Now to see if there are any external differences between a SBD-1 and a -2.



> All 14 aircraft were recovered from Lake Michigan.



What the 'ell else is at the bottom of Lake Michigan??


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## GrauGeist (Apr 7, 2009)

Sounded pretty interesting, for sure. 

What a survivor...making it through Pearl Harbor Midway....and pulled out of a lake in one peice after languishing down there for years. Amazing!


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## Marshall_Stack (Apr 7, 2009)

Amsel said:


> THE SBD IN COMBAT



It was interesting that the rear gunner sat forward during training dives. If I was him I think I would ask to stay on the ground during his training.

I like the SBD. I think that the USN should have developed this plane further instead of going with the "beast" (Helldiver).


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## A4K (Apr 10, 2009)

Looking forward to seeing how she comes along Chris!


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## Micdrow (Apr 10, 2009)

How about something with a little color and different. Profile below with info. Not Midway but still interesting.


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## lesofprimus (Apr 10, 2009)

Gotta be part of the Pacific Theatre of Ops Paul....


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## Micdrow (Apr 10, 2009)

lesofprimus said:


> Gotta be part of the Pacific Theatre of Ops Paul....



To bad, would have made a nice looking model


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## Njaco (Apr 10, 2009)

Thanks Paul. That is the model I'm working with, a SBD-1 but what I've found so far is that most were replaced by SBD-2s at the time of Midway. So I have to modify - I think addition rear guns was the major change - and find out the markings for the various units. Still researching. Thats why I opened this thread. Hopefully something pops up - like that one Lake Michigan Dauntless. I'm thinking.......


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## evangilder (Apr 11, 2009)

I have photos of the Planes of Fame SBD. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the paint scheme, but they seem to do a pretty good job with accuracy there.


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## Njaco (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks Eric! That is the paint scheme I'm going with. I need to find out with markings. As soon as I decide whether its from Yorktown, Hornet or Enterprise, I can go from there.

Great underside shot! Now I know how to do the weathering!


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## Amsel (Apr 12, 2009)

Great shot for weathering.


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## Airframes (Apr 12, 2009)

Chris, I've got some specs showing the differnces, SBD1 to SBD5. They were mainly to do with fuel tanks, armour and the standardisation of twin .30 cal rear MG's., although there were some engine differences. I'll check it all out and post something later, with pics if possible, probably about mid-day eastern time, as it's 03.10 hrs here. Can't sleep, got a streaming bl**dy cold!!


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## evangilder (Apr 12, 2009)

Great, Chris! I was hoping these might help.


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## Njaco (Apr 12, 2009)

Really appreciate that Eric, you don't know how much, as often there aren't any underside shots to go by.

Terry, I've narrowed it down to an SBD-2 from the Hornet. Or maybe Lt. Cmdr Richard Best as it was his last flight and he was in on the attack on the first 3 flat tops. Definately not an SBD-4 or -5 as they were not at Midway. I think I have most of what I need except for a clear shot of the rear gun arrangement. Need to scratch build that.

EDIT: I meant Enterprise. Found some good sites. While the one is for CFS it has some good markings with a good explanation

Air Groups on CV-6 USS Enterprise

and

Richard Halsey Best, Lieutenant Commander, United States Navy


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## R Leonard (Apr 12, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> How about the SBD that Lt. Stanley W. ""Swede" Vejtasa flew?
> Pretty sure he was with VS-5 while flying the Dauntless...



Neither, Stanley Vejtasa, nor VS-5, were at Midway.


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## Airframes (Apr 13, 2009)

Hi Chris, I'm still up and about - can't sleep due to streaming eyes and sneezing like a demented sneezing thing!
Anyway, I've checked my refs, and didn't have what I thought I had! It's all later period stuff. I can post some info on specs, but there's more concise info, with pics, and colour walk around pics. at the sites shown below.
The first one is a preserved RNZAF SBD-2, with specs, and some good colour detail shots.
The second is the recovery from Lake Michigan of BuNo 2106, now in the Pensacola Museum, and shows the rear gun mounting.
The final one is from Cyber Model, and has a colour walk around with some excellent detail shots that should be useful (real, not model!)

The sites are:-
Kiwi Aircraft Images : Douglas SBD Dauntless
http://hsfeatures.com/features04marinesat midwaypart1
www.cybermodel.com/aircraft/sbd
On the latter, you should see, on the top left of the page - SBD, Photo Walk Around.
Click on that, and there's a load of good shots.
Hope this helps mate.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 13, 2009)

R Leonard said:


> Neither, Stanley Vejtasa, nor VS-5, were at Midway.



I looked back through all those posts thinking I mixed something up somewhere, and I'll be damned if I can see where I suggested Swede was at Midway...

I know a few posts later I posted info about the SBD-2 Dauntless BuNo 2106 which was both at Pearl Harbor on 7 December and then flew from Midway atoll during the battle of Midway...

Did I miss something?


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## Ivan1GFP (Apr 13, 2009)

I believe EVanGilder's photos are of a SBD-5, and the markings are definitely post Midway.

I believe the best way to identify the differences between the models is at the Carburetor scoop and the rear gunner's armament. The trunk on the -1 is more curved at the top. I forget what the -2 looked like. The -3 had a flat top carb scoop and twin guns aft IIRC. The -5 has no carb scoop and no spinner. I did quite a lot of reading on the subject a couple years ago when selecting a model to build for Combat Flight Simulator. I settled on the -3 as the best subject for my purposes.

- Ivan.


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## R Leonard (Apr 13, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> I looked back through all those posts thinking I mixed something up somewhere, and I'll be damned if I can see where I suggested Swede was at Midway...
> I know a few posts later I posted info about the SBD-2 Dauntless BuNo 2106 which was both at Pearl Harbor on 7 December and then flew from Midway atoll during the battle of Midway...
> Did I miss something?



The original post/poster specifically identified the Battle of Midway for his SBD project.

You came right back in the second message in the thread with a Vejtasa and VS-5 recommendation.

I am simply pointing out that neither were at the Battle of Midway, thus they did not fall into the category which the original poster raised and, perhaps, clarifying a statement that could have led the unwary to erroneous conclusions. 

Sorry if you find reason to feel defensive at clarification. 

For the sake of clarity, LTJG Vejtasa was reporting to VF(R)-10 at North Island NAS on 4 June 1942; VS-5 was at Kaneohe NAS preparing to go aboard USS Saratoga when she arrived from the San Diego.

Regards


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## Njaco (Apr 14, 2009)

Guys, that may have been my mistake not clarifing what I was looking for. I wanted info on SBD's and as this thread went along I realized I wanted to do something around Midway as my model with have to be an early SBD.

Thanks everyone for the info. Checking pics now.

Ivan, you're correct and I think I can get away with a SBD-2 from an SBD-1. That and the rear gun arrangements are the only external differences I could see.

EDIT: Terry, I can get the Kiwi link up but the others say page not found.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 14, 2009)

Well NJ, you're going to have a heck of an assist on the details from Eric's photos...that's a great shot of the underside weathering he posted!

And R Leonard, no probs here...I've been buried in projects/deadlines/etc lately, and you had me wondering if I had mixed up my info! 

I've been known to do that on occasion...


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## R Leonard (Apr 14, 2009)

Oh yeah, me too, all the time!


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## Airframes (Apr 14, 2009)

Chris, leave it with me. I'll see if I can download the relevant pics, and post them if possible.


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## Airframes (Apr 14, 2009)

Hmm! I had similar problems this time! Sending you a PM Chris!


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## D.James (Apr 14, 2009)

Dunno if these'll help with your gun build or not...
Last six were drawn by me for my 3d TBD build. The TBD's (some or all, depending on who's source ya read) were battlefield modified with SBD spares just prior to Midway.
(accuracy is not so great on my drawings, but may help when scaling down. you can download 3d model of them here.)


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## R Leonard (Apr 15, 2009)

Very nice.

Regards, 

Rich


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## Njaco (Apr 15, 2009)

THANKS JAMES!!!! Thats what I need, exactly!


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## Airframes (Apr 15, 2009)

Great work James.


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## D.James (Apr 19, 2009)

Just stumbled accross this one today.. Nice COLOR shot of a '43 insgnia SBD's rear guns being loaded by an armourer.


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## Geedee (Apr 19, 2009)

Heres a couple of cockpit / general shots of the CAF's Dauntless for you. I dont suppose there was that much difference between the marks, internally. Interesting to note the clear view panel in the floor


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## Amsel (Apr 19, 2009)

Nice drawings and photos guys. I am seriously thinking of building a 1/48 model now of this bird.


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## evangilder (Apr 19, 2009)

You'll certainly have plenty of reference material!


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## BombTaxi (Apr 19, 2009)

I was just looking at the Italeri 1/48 version of this last weekend. I have more than enough to do already, so I haven't bought one, but I may do in time...


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## Njaco (Apr 20, 2009)

Thanks guys!!!!

Thats just what I wanted. Now I have to see if I can scratchbuild the guns. And all those underside shots and cockpit pics REALLY help with what colors I need. Thanks!!


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## A4K (Apr 21, 2009)

Fantastic info guys!!!!! Looking forward to your project Chris!


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## Johnny Signor (Aug 1, 2009)

Any of you guys ever consider doing a USAAF version? I think they were called the A-24 ,and they were of course in the USAAF OD green over gray,but several unit sused them ,one in the Aleutian area, anyway just my two cents worth.


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