# Shooting at Fort Hood



## DBII (Nov 5, 2009)

Break news from ABC News

KILLEEN, TX (KTRK) -- A mass shooting at the Fort Hood Army base in Killeen has left at least seven dead. 
According to a spokesperson for the base, seven victims are dead and 12 are wounded. Two of those are in serious condition. One gunman has been apprehended. 
The shooting happened at the soldier readiness processing center at approximately 1:30pm. The base remains on lockdown. It's believed there were at least two gunmen. At least one is still on the loose. 
The website of the base has posted an alert that says, "Effective immediately Fort Hood is closed." The Web site said that units at the base have been ordered to account for all personnel.
The site says, "This is not a Drill. It is an Emergency Situation." 
According to KXXV-TV, the ABC affiliate for Killeen, Killeen ISD has nine schools, all on the post, all on lockdown. Parents have been asked to stay away. 
Stay with ABC13 Eyewitness News for the latest on this developing story. 

DBII


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## diddyriddick (Nov 5, 2009)

Love that last next to last bit. If my child was in danger, it would take more than a school lockdown to keep me away. 

Anyway, my thoughts go out to the victims.


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## DBII (Nov 5, 2009)

The schools are on on post. All of Ft Hood is locked down. The parents must be going crazy. Lastest is 3 gun men one has been captured. Wounded is rumored to be 20. 

DBII


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 5, 2009)

Holy ****! I hope they catch and kill those bastards.

I used to live at Fort Hood over 20 years ago. I have many friends stationed there right now.


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## DBII (Nov 5, 2009)

By ANNE GEARAN, AP National Security Writer Anne Gearan, Ap National Security Writer – 8 mins ago
WASHINGTON – Seven people were killed and 20 wounded in a pair of shootings Thursday at the Fort Hood Army base in Texas, the Army says.

An army spokesman in Washington says the base has been locked down following the shootings. Another official told The Asociated Press that at least one shooter had been caught.

The FBI is sending agents to the scene.

Army spokesman Lt. Col. Nathan Banks says the first shooting began at about 1:30 p.m. at a personnel and medical processing office. The facility, called a Soldier Rating and Processing center, handles administrative details for soldiers.

Banks says two shooters were apparently involved. There was no immediate word on who they were, nor on identities of the dead.

Banks says the second incident took place at a theater on the sprawling base.

Another Army official identified that site as the Howze Theater.

That official, who requested anonymity to discuss an evolving incident, said a graduation had been scheduled for 2 p.m. at the theater.

The White House said President Barack Obama was notified of the shootings.

DBII


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 5, 2009)

The Fort Hood website is actually down right now. It says "Service Unavailable"


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## DBII (Nov 5, 2009)

FBI is saying not terrorist but it is early

DBII


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 5, 2009)

I am watching the live News Cast and briefing from a Major General in command of 3rd Corps. He has stated that there are now 12 killed and 31 wounded. One shooter has been killed and 2 have been captured.

*The General has said that the shooters were soldiers, and that all victims were soldiers as well.No civilians wounded or killed.*

Primary weapons were hand guns.


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## timshatz (Nov 5, 2009)

Three attackers? One guy going bonkers is one thing. But three guys going bonkers at the same time? Don't believe it, has to be planned in some way. 

No terrorist?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 5, 2009)

It was obviously planned. He did confirm the shooters were all soldiers, that were attacking soldier preparing to deploy.


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## DBII (Nov 5, 2009)

$%!

DBII


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## B-17engineer (Nov 5, 2009)

Friggin disgraceful. My thoughts are out to the victims. What the F*** were they thinking.


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## lesofprimus (Nov 5, 2009)

Motherfu*kers.......


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## ToughOmbre (Nov 5, 2009)

Sounds like the shooter that was killed was a major, upset with the fact that he was going to be deployed to Iraq (according to FOX News).

TO


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## piet (Nov 5, 2009)

shooters name malik hasan........oops!
just on cnn


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## ToughOmbre (Nov 5, 2009)

General Robert Scales (Ret) on FOX News is describing the shootings as "deliberate acts of execution" by the shooter.

TO


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 5, 2009)

Dam...............


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## Messy1 (Nov 5, 2009)

What a shocking story.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Nov 5, 2009)

Holy ****!


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## Gnomey (Nov 5, 2009)

Has to have been planned, wouldn't surprise me if there were some terrorist links either.  Hope they get all the f*ckers and throw the book and everything else at them.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 5, 2009)

Of course it was planned. There were 3 shooters in total and too attack sites. It was a premeditated attack. 

I am just wondering if they were a member of some organization.


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## Thorlifter (Nov 5, 2009)

I was going to post some information about the Major who was killed, but decided I don't want to post anything about that sorry coward. Glad he's gone, but it's very sad 12 people had to die first.


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## wheelsup_cavu (Nov 5, 2009)

Words fail me...Sorry

My condolences to the families of the victims.


Wheels


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## RabidAlien (Nov 5, 2009)

I'd heard they released the other two after some questioning. With three involved, that's a conspiracy to me, but if they found the other two innocent, that's just a guy flippin out. All of the news agencies I've watched so far are stuck in a spin-cycle, repeating the same information over and over and over, mixing up their words a bit so it doesn't get old and stale. My question is this, though: if its a planned terrorist thing, why did they use handguns? Why not an explosive vest in a crowded processing facility, or that graduation planned for a little while later? He killed 12 (for which I heartily congratulate the individual who finally capped his arse!), when he could've killed 200 or more. I may be wrong, but this just doesn't feel like a terrorist thing. I'll refine my opinions as more *facts *become available.


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## GrauGeist (Nov 5, 2009)

One person or a hundred, the fact that an officer of the U.S. military would commit such an act is nothing more than an act of treasonous cowardice, regardless of thier motive.

I think killing the son of a b!tch was far too generous, but given the current attitude towards criminal rights, being dead is probably the best way for that piece of sh!t to end up...


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## beaupower32 (Nov 5, 2009)

DIdnt see this posted, so here is a sad one <S>

FORT HOOD, Texas – A military mental health doctor facing deployment overseas opened fire at the Fort Hood Army post on Thursday, setting off on a rampage that killed 11 other people and left 31 wounded. Authorities killed the gunman, and the violence was believed to be the worst mass shooting in history at a U.S. military base.

The shooting began around 1:30 p.m., when shots were fired at the base's Soldier Readiness Center, where soldiers who are about to be deployed or who are returning undergo medical screening, said Lt. Gen. Bob Cone at Fort Hood.

President Barack Obama called the shooting "a horrific outburst of violence." He said it is a tragedy to lose a soldier overseas and even more horrifying when they come under fire at an Army base on American soil.

"We will make sure that we get answers to every single question about this horrible incident," the commander in chief said in Washington. "We are going to stay on this."

A law enforcement official identified the shooting suspect as Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly.

It was unclear what the motive was, though it appeared he was upset about a scheduled deployment. U.S. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison said the Army major was about to deploy overseas, though it was unclear if he was headed to Iraq or Afghanistan and when he was scheduled to leave. Hutchison said she was told about the upcoming deployment by generals based at Fort Hood.

Retired Army Col. Terry Lee told Fox News that he worked with Hasan, who had hoped Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Lee said Hasan got into frequent arguments with others in the military who supported the wars, and had tried hard to prevent his pending deployment.

Military officials say Hasan, 39, was a psychiatrist at Walter Reed Army Medical Center for six years before being transferred to the Texas base in July. The officials, who had access to Hasan's military record, said he received a poor performance evaluation while at Walter Reed. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because military records are confidential.

The Virginia-born soldier was single with no children. He graduated from Virginia Tech, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. At Walter Reed, he did his internship, residency and a fellowship.

Officials were investigating whether Hasan was his birth name or if he may have changed his name, possibly as part of a conversion to Islam. However, they were not certain of his religion.

The Soldier Readiness Center holds hundreds of people and is one of the most populated parts of the base, said Steve Moore, a spokesman for III Corps at Fort Hood. Nearby there are barracks and a food center where there are fast food chains. The center is part of the largest active duty armored post in the United States. Covering 339 square miles, the post halfway between Austin and Waco was home to about 52,000 troops as of earlier this year.

A graduation ceremony for soldiers who finished college courses while deployed was going on nearby at the time of the shooting, said Sgt. Rebekah Lampman, a Fort Hood spokeswoman.

Greg Schanepp, Carter's regional director in Texas, was at Fort Hood, said John Stone, a spokesman for U.S. Rep. John Carter, whose district includes the Army post. Schanepp was at a graduation ceremony when a soldier who had been shot in the back came running toward him and alerted him of the shooting, Stone said. The soldier told Schanepp not to go in the direction of the shooter, he said.

Soldiers don't carry weapons with them unless they're doing training exercises, said Spc. Jerry Richard, 27, who works at the building where the shooting happened — though he was not on post at the time.

"Overseas you are ready for it. But here you can't even defend yourself," he said.

Two other soldiers taken into custody following the deadly rampage have been released, Fort Hood spokesman Christopher Haug said. "They're not believed to be involved in the incident," Haug said. He said a third person was in custody, however.

The wounded were dispersed among hospitals in central Texas, Cone said.

Lisa Pfund of Random Lake, Wis., says her daughter, 19-year-old Amber Bahr, was shot in the stomach but was in stable condition. "We know nothing, just that she was shot in the belly," Pfund told The Associated Press. She couldn't provide more details and only spoke with emergency personnel. 

Pfund said Bahr joined the reserves when she was 17 to earn money for school and loved being in the military even though none of her friends were interested in joining the Army. 

A Fort Hood spokesman said he could not immediately confirm any identities of the injured. 

"I ask that all of you keep these families and these individuals in your prayers today," Texas Gov. Rick Perry said. 

The shootings on the Texas military base stirred memories of other recent mass shootings in the United States, including 13 dead at a New York immigrant center in April, 10 killed during a gunman's rampage across Alabama in March and 32 killed in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history at Virginia Tech in 2007. 

Around the country, some bases stepped up security precautions, but no others were locked down.


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## B-17engineer (Nov 5, 2009)

PRESS CONFERENCE...

The shooter is NOT dead, he was shot but is in stable condition and 2 men were released and one is still in custody.


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## ToughOmbre (Nov 5, 2009)

Surprising news from that press conference. The piece of SH*T is alive, and he is the single shooter.

More to come!

TO


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## B-17engineer (Nov 5, 2009)

I'm glued to my TV


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## Thorlifter (Nov 5, 2009)

WOW!!!!!!


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## RabidAlien (Nov 5, 2009)

Good patch him up so that he's aware of every nerve ending as they throw the frikkin switch on his arse.


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## B-17engineer (Nov 5, 2009)

Agreed RA


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## GrauGeist (Nov 5, 2009)

So this clown is still alive??


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## B-17engineer (Nov 5, 2009)

Yes he is wounded, but alive. 

Killer Clown is the word....


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## GrauGeist (Nov 5, 2009)

B-17engineer said:


> Yes he is wounded, but alive...



Why?


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## RabidAlien (Nov 5, 2009)

Edit: Army confirms he's alive and in stable condition. They're saying that he was shot multiple times by a female civilian police officer, a first-responder to the scene; she was also shot by him in the process, was rushed to a local hospital and is now out of surgery and in stable condition herself.  Give that woman a medal!


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## GrauGeist (Nov 5, 2009)

Outstanding job on her behalf, good to hear she's doing ok.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 6, 2009)

My salute to Sgt. Kimberly Munley and her quick response that was able to end this mindless ****s rampage. I hope he burns in hell.


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## wheelsup_cavu (Nov 6, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> My salute to Sgt. Kimberly Munley and her quick response that was able to end this mindless ****s rampage. I hope he burns in hell.


5'4" dynamo is what she is...







Wheels


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## Erich (Nov 6, 2009)

give her the chance to kick the smuck in the balls with a steel toed boot then ship him over to Afghanistan on the lines

allah akbar yourself you frickin piece of ....

of course it might be nice to give every soldier on the base one free punch to the worthless piece of craps face


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## jamierd (Nov 6, 2009)

my thoughts and sympathys are with the familys of those involved and the chair or lethal injection are far too quick for this guy let me do it i am sure i could make it last for weeks


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## Glider (Nov 6, 2009)

I suspect that Sgt Munley will not be able to by a drink or a meal anywhere near the base for a long time. Let us hope for a full and speedy recovery.


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## Amsel (Nov 6, 2009)

The media is so full of ****. They are going out of their way to portray the killer as a victim.


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## BikerBabe (Nov 6, 2009)

My deepest and most sincere respect for Ms. Munley.
And all of my very best wishes and condolences for all of the families and those who suffered from this terrible attack.


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## GrauGeist (Nov 6, 2009)

Amsel said:


> The media is so full of ****. They are going out of their way to portray the killer as a victim.


Sadly enough, the media is really trying to make him into a victim.

Well, I think that can be arranged...


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Nov 6, 2009)

jamierd said:


> my thoughts and sympathys are with the familys of those involved and the chair or lethal injection are far too quick for this guy let me do it i am sure i could make it last for weeks



I could make it last for y-e-a-r-s.


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## RabidAlien (Nov 6, 2009)

I can't watch this on TV anymore.


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## ccheese (Nov 7, 2009)

The unfortunate part of all this is... when the Major finally goes to trial he will probably plead insanity and will get
off. It would have been a lot better if that gal had killed him. Think of the money saved !!

Charles


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Nov 7, 2009)

ccheese said:


> The unfortunate part of all this is... when the Major finally goes to trial he will probably plead insanity and will get
> off. It would have been a lot better if that gal had killed him. Think of the money saved !!
> 
> Charles



I hope not, I hope he'll get justice Texas style.


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## Erich (Nov 7, 2009)

fear a woman's scorn, let her take charge of the situation in her own style


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## Amsel (Nov 8, 2009)

This guy is a hero to many of our own people, including the party in power. I don't expect anything but a witch hunt within our military while the mainstream media finds excuses for the murderer. The Rubicon has been crossed.


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## Lucky13 (Nov 8, 2009)

*Some saw trouble ahead with Fort Hood shooter*

By ANGELA K. BROWN and RICHARD LARDNER, Associated Press Writers Angela K. Brown And Richard Lardner, Associated Press Writers – 48 mins ago

FORT HOOD, Texas – In retrospect, the signs of Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's growing anger over the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan seem unmistakable. But even people who worried his increasingly strident views were clouding his ability to serve the U.S. military could not predict the murderous rampage of which he now stands accused.

In the months leading to Thursday's shooting spree that left 13 people dead and 29 others wounded, Hasan raised eyebrows with comments that the war on terror was "a war on Islam" and wrestled with what to tell fellow Muslim solders who had their doubts about fighting in Islamic countries.

"The system is not doing what it's supposed to do," said Dr. Val Finnell, who complained to administrators at a military university about what he considered Hasan's "anti-American" rants. "He at least should have been confronted about these beliefs, told to cease and desist, and to shape up or ship out."

Finnell studied with Hasan from 2007-2008 in the master's program in public health at the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., where Hasan persistently complained about perceived anti-Muslim sentiment in the military and injected his politics into courses where they had no place.

"In retrospect, I'm not surprised he did it," Finnell said of the shootings. "I had real questions about what his priorities were, what his beliefs were."

Hasan, who was shot by civilian police and taken into custody, was in intensive care but breathing on his own late Saturday at an Army hospital in San Antonio. Officials refused to say if he was talking to investigators.

At least 17 victims remained hospitalized with gunshot wounds, and nine were in intensive care late Saturday. On Sunday, numerous church services honoring the victims were planned both on the post and in neighboring Killeen.

Military criminal investigators continue to refer to Hasan as the only suspect in the shootings but won't say when charges would be filed. "We have not established a motive for the shootings at this time," said Army Criminal Investigative Command spokesman Chris Grey.

A government official speaking on condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to discuss the case said an initial review of Hasan's computer use has found no evidence of links to terror groups, or anyone who might have helped plan or push him toward the shooting attack. The review of Hasan's computer is continuing and more evidence could emerge, the source said.

Hasan likely would face military justice rather than federal criminal charges if investigators determine the violence was the work of just one person.

Hasan's family described a man incapable of the attack, calling him a devoted doctor and devout Muslim who showed no signs that he might lash out.

"I've known my brother Nidal to be a peaceful, loving and compassionate person who has shown great interest in the medical field and in helping others," said his brother, Eyad Hasan, of Sterling, Va., in a statement. "He has never committed an act of violence and was always known to be a good, law-abiding citizen."

Still, in the days since authorities believe Hasan fired more than 100 rounds in a soldier processing center at Fort Hood in the worst mass shooting on a military facility in the U.S., a picture has emerged of a man who was forcefully opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, was trying to elude his pending deployment to Afghanistan and had struggled professionally in his work as an Army psychiatrist.

"I told him, `There's something wrong with you,'" Osman Danquah, co-founder of the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen, told The Associated Press on Saturday. "I didn't get the feeling he was talking for himself, but something just didn't seem right."

Danquah assumed the military's chain of command knew about Hasan's doubts, which had been known for more than a year to classmates at the Maryland graduate military medical program. His fellow students complained to the faculty about Hasan's "anti-American propaganda," but said a fear of appearing discriminatory against a Muslim student kept officers from filing a formal complaint.

Others recalled a pleasant neighbor who forgave a fellow soldier charged with tearing up his "Allah is Love" bumper sticker. A superior officer at Darnall Army Medical Center at Fort Hood, Col. Kimberly Kesling, has said Hasan was quiet with a strong work ethic who provided excellent care for his patients.

Twice this summer, Danquah said, Hasan asked him what to tell soldiers who expressed misgivings about fighting fellow Muslims. The retired Army first sergeant and Gulf War veteran said he reminded Hasan that these soldiers had volunteered to fight, and that Muslims were fighting each other in Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Palestinian territories.

"But what if a person gets in and feels that it's just not right?" Danquah recalled Hasan asking him. 

"I'd give him my response. It didn't seem settled, you know. It didn't seem to satisfy," he said. "It would be like a person playing the devil's advocate. ... I said, `Look. I'm not impressed by you.'" 

Danquah said he was disturbed by Hasan's persistent questioning but never told anyone at the sprawling Army post about the talks, because Hasan never expressed anger toward the Army or indicated any plans for violence. 

"If I had an inkling that he had this type of inclination or intentions, definitely I would have brought it to their attention," he said. 

Hasan was promoted from captain to major in 2008, the same year he graduated from the master's program. Bernard Rostker, a military personnel expert at the Rand Corp., said a shortage of officers and psychiatrists meant Hasan's advancement was all but certain absent a serious blemish on his record, such as a DUI or a drug charge. 

Hasan reportedly jumped up on a desk and shouted "Allahu akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great!" — at the start of Thursday's attack. 

"Hopefully, they can put together the pieces and find out what in the world was in his mind and why he went crazy," Danquah said. "Aaaaah, it's sad. Those soldiers could have been my soldiers." 

___ 

Associated Press Writers Allen Breed in Killeen, Dalia Nammari in Ramallah, West Bank, and Devlin Barrett, Richard Lardner, Pamela Hess and Jessica Gresko in Washington, D.C., contributed to this report.

.


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## Maestro (Nov 8, 2009)

Just watched a part of Bill O'Reilly's show on FOXnews.com. Looks like they're gonna check on his computer to see if the shooting was planned.

As O'Reilly said : "If it was planned, he is a terrorist. If not he is a nut."

Now, you can treat me of fascist if you want to, but I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't be safer for all of us to just deportate all of Muslims back to North-Africa and then permanently close our borders to Muslim immigration. Those guys are zealots practicing a dangerous religion. They don't wanna live like us, they want to destroy us !

Now, may be writing this will cost me a few days ban, but I'll just bend-over and take the punishment like a good boy... Because I just told what was on my heart.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 8, 2009)

You are not going to be banned for telling your feelings. Just don't be surprised if many hold different opinions.

Don't let this get out of hand.

Back to topic:

Of course it was premeditated. A Major in the US Army is not going to wake up one morning, have breakfast and say "I think for PT I will go and shoot some of my fellow soldiers!". He thought about this for a very long time. He deserves to be punished by by the soldiers he harmed. Hanging him sounds good to me...


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## 109ROAMING (Nov 8, 2009)

Maestro said:


> Just watched a part of Bill O'Reilly's show on FOXnews.com. Looks like they're gonna check on his computer to see if the shooting was planned.
> 
> As O'Reilly said : "If it was planned, he is a terrorist. If not he is a nut."
> 
> ...



Agreed.



DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Hanging him sounds good to me...



Agreed.


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## Butters (Nov 8, 2009)

Amsel said:


> This guy is a hero to many of our own people, including the party in power. I don't expect anything but a witch hunt within our military while the mainstream media finds excuses for the murderer. The Rubicon has been crossed.



What utter and complete paranoic nonsense. Get a grip, will ya...

Geeez...

JL


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## Maestro (Nov 8, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Of course it was premeditated. A Major in the US Army is not going to wake up one morning, have breakfast and say "I think for PT I will go and shoot some of my fellow soldiers!". He thought about this for a very long time. He deserves to be punished by by the soldiers he harmed. Hanging him sounds good to me...



Let me play the devil's advocate on this one...

I don't know if soldiers in the US army get a "mental health check" every year or so, if it does then yes, it is indeed premeditated.

However, if they only get that "mental health check" once upon enlisting and then once everytime they come back from a campaign, then it can just be some kind of nut. (Don't forget that this guy never went at war.)

Mental deseases can show up on many ways. Some can be born with it (like autism), others can develop it in their childhood, in their teenage, or even in their adulthood (like depression or skyzophrenia (sorry, can't spell)).

If he developped such a desease while working for the army, he might have decided to do that at the last moment.


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## Butters (Nov 8, 2009)

Maestro said:


> Just watched a part of Bill O'Reilly's show on FOXnews.com. Looks like they're gonna check on his computer to see if the shooting was planned.
> 
> As O'Reilly said : "If it was planned, he is a terrorist. If not he is a nut."
> 
> ...



I don't think you're a fascist. What you are is so glaringly obvious that I don't need to point it out...

Do you realize that there are well over a million Muslims in the US? And that many of them were born there, which entitles them to exactly the same consideration as any other citizen? Are you aware that both the US and Canadian Constitution explicitly forbid any discrimination or privilege on the basis of religion or ethnicity? That's what makes our nations the exemplars of freedom. Unlike states like Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Nazi Germany. We use cattle cars for cattle, not our citizens...

Your comments mirror the hysterical mindset that led to the incarceration of American and Canadian citizens of Japanese descent that took place during WWII. That was a complete travesty of justice, and a black mark on both democracies. The Fort Hood shooter was a murderous nutball, just as the Christian Anglo-Saxon Timothy McVeigh was a murderous nutball. He deliberately slaughtered far more innocent people than Hasan did, but I don't recall any wide-spread demand to round up and deport every Christian of Anglo-Saxon descent. Do you?

First think. Then post...

JL


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 8, 2009)

Maestro said:


> Let me play the devil's advocate on this one...
> 
> I don't know if soldiers in the US army get a "mental health check" every year or so, if it does then yes, it is indeed premeditated.
> 
> ...



Soldiers are checked for their physical and mental health on a regular basis.


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## ccheese (Nov 8, 2009)

Amsel said:


> This guy is a hero to many of our own people, including the party in power. I don't expect anything but a witch hunt within our military while the mainstream media finds excuses for the murderer. The Rubicon has been crossed.



What a bunch of crap ! Anybody who believes the Democartic party will think this guy is a hero has
got a screw loose. Actually, your comments don't surprise me. I expected as much from you ...

Charles


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## Freebird (Nov 8, 2009)

They were saying on the news that he might be charged with treason - very rare


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## RabidAlien (Nov 8, 2009)

He deserves it. As was said earlier, he's a soldier, an officer, and things like this don't just happen because one is bored one afternoon while the Playstation is broken. It was premeditated. Personally, I feel that the guy is one of those who are just in the military for a free ride. He's never been to war, yet feels the need to denounce the reasons why the US is in the Middle East, and was working to convince others of that fact as well..which is considered mutiny out at sea, or sedition (I think that's the word I'm after). He joined the military to get the free schooling. The military is there to defend democracy, freedoms, and the US. He knew that going in. He wasn't drafted, he volunteered, so with all that in mind, it was his own frikkin choice to join an institution built around combat and fighting. He has no one to blame but himself. His plan backfired, he was going to be sent overseas. Be a man, suck it up, and go. Heck, as a psychiatrist, he wasn't going to be anywhere near the front lines anyway!

If the military needs, I will gladly donate the rope.


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## Amsel (Nov 8, 2009)

ccheese said:


> What a bunch of crap ! Anybody who believes the Democartic party will think this guy is a hero has
> got a screw loose. Actually, your comments don't surprise me. I expected as much from you ...
> 
> Charles



Sorry, let me rephrase that. There are many anti-war nutcases that are, no doubt thrilled about the killing of our soldiers. They happen to be liberals, leftists, Hollywood millionaires and such. Strong supporters of the party in power. The media had been trying to make a case that the terrorist had been a victim of PTSD or was angry over being "forced" to go to war. Other liberals are blaming capitalism and freedom for the mass shootings, and one democratic blogger is calling our liberty a form of tyranny because of the mass killings.

I don't think I have a screw loose; America is sliding downhill fast, and I just happen to notice it.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 8, 2009)

freebird said:


> They were saying on the news that he might be charged with treason - very rare



Very rare and as far as I know still punishable by death. Sounds good to me...



Amsel said:


> Sorry, let me rephrase that. There are many anti-war nutcases that are, no doubt thrilled about the killing of our soldiers. They happen to be liberals, leftists, Hollywood millionaires and such. Strong supporters of the party in power. The media had been trying to make a case that the terrorist had been a victim of PTSD or was angry over being "forced" to go to war. Other liberals are blaming capitalism and freedom for the mass shootings, and one democratic blogger is calling our liberty a form of tyranny because of the mass killings.
> 
> I don't think I have a screw loose; America is sliding downhill fast, and I just happen to notice it.



I am going to have to agree with Charles here. I do not agree with the Democratic party, but I am sure that there are no Democrats in office that support US soldiers being murdered. Accusing anyone in our govt. of that is taking it a bit far in my opinion.


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## Erich (Nov 8, 2009)

this has nothing to do with politics this has everything to do with a warped personality dealing out death to Americans. let the axe now fall on the appropriate neck


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## Lucky13 (Nov 8, 2009)

freebird said:


> They were saying on the news that he might be charged with treason - very rare



Would that be Treason _AND_ Homicide?


----------



## B-17engineer (Nov 8, 2009)

Probably. Premeditated Murder and Treason. 

Premeditated is worse than just homicide.


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## Amsel (Nov 8, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I am going to have to agree with Charles here. I do not agree with the Democratic party, but I am sure that there are no Democrats in office that support US soldiers being murdered. Accusing anyone in our govt. of that is taking it a bit far in my opinion.



Even though I have zero confidence in our government officials, I have to agree with you, Adler. I can't think of any officials that would support that. But I have been reading many comments and opinions made by liberals that are sickening. I thought I clarified my original comments.


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## Amsel (Nov 8, 2009)

> Hasan, the sole suspect in the massacre of 13 fellow US soldiers in Texas, attended the controversial Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Great Falls, Virginia, in 2001 at the same time as two of the September 11 terrorists, The Sunday Telegraph has learnt. His mother's funeral was held there in May that year.
> 
> The preacher at the time was Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born Yemeni scholar who was banned from addressing a meeting in London by video link in August because he is accused of supporting attacks on British troops and backing terrorist organisations.


Fort Hood shooting: Texas army killer linked to September 11 terrorists - Telegraph


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 8, 2009)

I think a charge of treason would be difficult to prove, unless they find evidence he was collaborating with the enemy. 

I don't believe the nut case who tossed a couple of grenades in a tent in Iraq was charged with treason.


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## GrauGeist (Nov 8, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> I think a charge of treason would be difficult to prove, unless they find evidence he was collaborating with the enemy.
> 
> I don't believe the nut case who tossed a couple of grenades in a tent in Iraq was charged with treason.


The douchbag that tossed the grenades also wasn't an officer in the United States military (he was a non-com)...meaning that as an officer, you have a higher duty to your men and country. An act of treason can be anything from giving information to the enemy that compromises the security of your forces/country to an act that openly results in harm to your forces and/or country.

By the way, that was at camp Pennsylvania, Kuwait.

The thing that's irritating me here, is that the media is "examining" these a-holes to see why their issues "forced" them to go off...

Nothing forces a person to do anything unless they themselves allow it. Period.


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## B-17engineer (Nov 8, 2009)

They said so far every witness being interviewed heard him scream "Allah Ackbar!" while shooting.


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## Butters (Nov 8, 2009)

Amsel said:


> Fort Hood shooting: Texas army killer linked to September 11 terrorists - Telegraph



Ahh....The venerable Fallacy of Association. The oldest and smelliest red herring ever...

It's been fairly well established that Hasan is one seriously FU'ed dude. The Telegraph article makes that pretty clear. However, the fact that he went berserk 8 years after attending a few mosque services in the presence of some of the 9/11 hijackers, does not mean that his despicable act was in support of the agenda of a terrorist conspiracy. And yes, I know that you have not explicitly stated that it was, but it is a reasonable inference, given your previous posts, that you are implying it. But enough of that. The authorities will be investigating it, so I'll just wait and see. Right now, I'd rather address your prior post :

Amsel: "Sorry, let me rephrase that. There are many anti-war nutcases that are, no doubt thrilled about the killing of our soldiers. They happen to be liberals, leftists, Hollywood millionaires and such. Strong supporters of the party in power. The media had been trying to make a case that the terrorist had been a victim of PTSD or was angry over being "forced" to go to war. Other liberals are blaming capitalism and freedom for the mass shootings, and one democratic blogger is calling our liberty a form of tyranny because of the mass killings.

I don't think I have a screw loose; America is sliding downhill fast, and I just happen to notice it."

Butters: Really? You just happened to notice what? That any whackjob with access to a computer can spew their lunatic ravings on the Web? Well, I certainly can't argue with that...

What I can argue against is the laughable incoherency of the absurd assertions and sweeping generalizations that you fling about with such partisan abandon. Such fervor may be admired in some quarters, but some of us also like a little evidence to help wash down the zeal. So where is the evidence to back up your claim that 'liberals, leftists, and Hollywood millionaires' are 'no doubt thrilled' by this tragedy? Who are you talking about? The radical lefist congregation of the Westboro Baptist Church, perhaps? Or maybe that Hollywood mega-millionaire and liberal arch-fiend Mel Gibson? No? Then who exactly? Entertainment Tonight hasn't given us the inside scoop on any Hollywood A-list galas celebrating this horrific event. Nor has Fox News, to my knowledge...So, again - who are talking about? Surely not just the usual suspects... You know, the inevitable malcontents and lunatics at both ends of the political spectrum who pollute the Internet with their psychotic hatred.

You know as well as I do that those extremists do not represent the views of either mainstream liberals or conservatives. They're just nuts who deserve no recognition or respect whatsoever. By either 'side'.

You've given no evidence whatsoever to support your assertions. Well, except for where you say that you don't think that you have a screw loose. For once, I agree. I don't think that you have 'a' screw loose, either...

JL


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 8, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> I think a charge of treason would be difficult to prove, unless they find evidence he was collaborating with the enemy.
> 
> I don't believe the nut case who tossed a couple of grenades in a tent in Iraq was charged with treason.



If they find evidence that he was meeting with extremists while at the mosque, that is enough for treason for me.



Butters said:


> Butters: Really? You just happened to notice what? That any whackjob with access to a computer can spew their lunatic ravings on the Web? Well, I certainly can't argue with that...
> 
> What I can argue against is the laughable incoherency of the absurd assertions and sweeping generalizations that you fling about with such partisan abandon. Such fervor may be admired in some quarters, but some of us also like a little evidence to help wash down the zeal. So where is the evidence to back up your claim that 'liberals, leftists, and Hollywood millionaires' are 'no doubt thrilled' by this tragedy? Who are you talking about? The radical lefist congregation of the Westboro Baptist Church, perhaps? Or maybe that Hollywood mega-millionaire and liberal arch-fiend Mel Gibson? No? Then who exactly? Entertainment Tonight hasn't given us the inside scoop on any Hollywood A-list galas celebrating this horrific event. Nor has Fox News, to my knowledge...So, again - who are talking about? Surely not just the usual suspects... You know, the inevitable malcontents and lunatics at both ends of the political spectrum who pollute the Internet with their psychotic hatred.
> 
> ...



Do not let this turn into another heated political discussion filled with meaningless debate and insults. We got rid of the political threads because many members of this forum could not handle it. Since there are no political threads, if these kind of heated insulting discussions take place, people will find themselves on vacation.

That goes for Amsel as well and for anyone else who wishes to get involved.

I am giving out this warning because I can see where this discussion is going to go.


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## Butters (Nov 8, 2009)

Adler,

I knew that I was treading the line with my last post. I've said my piece, and I won't take it any further.

I appreciate the warning.

JL


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## ToughOmbre (Nov 8, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> If they find evidence that he was meeting with extremists while at the mosque, that is enough for treason for me.



Good enough for me as well!

TO


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## ccheese (Nov 8, 2009)

ToughOmbre said:


> Good enough for me as well!
> 
> TO




But... will that satisfy a General Courts Martial ??? Remember this nut-case commited murder on a military base while a member of the U.S. Armed Forces. The UCMJ should be paramount ! The civilan courts should not even think about trying him.

Thanks, Chris. Your warning was very timely and on the mark.

Charles


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## drgondog (Nov 8, 2009)

Newsmax just reported he went to same mosque as two 9/11 Terrorists - with same Imam. Nobody else has mentioned it


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## Butters (Nov 8, 2009)

drgondog said:


> Newsmax just reported he went to same mosque as two 9/11 Terrorists - with same Imam. Nobody else has mentioned it



Amsel posted a link to a news site that talks about that on page 5 of this thread.

JL


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## Freebird (Nov 8, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Very rare and as far as I know still punishable by death. Sounds good to me...




Hung drawn quartered was the standard "reward" for treason in ye olde Britain. 


Question for you Adler, Les any other vets.

It was reported that he was frustrated that the army would not let him "Buy back" his education credits instead of serving - do you think they should have?


Please keep this in mind - I do not in any way shape or form think that this provides any "justifiaction".

I am just simply wondering if it is really in the Army's best interest to force someone to serve who doesn't want to be there, he wouldn't be putting in his best effort. Wouldn't it have been better for the army to say "OK, pay back your education credits and get out"? ( don't let the door hit your A** on the way out...)


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## ToughOmbre (Nov 8, 2009)

ccheese said:


> But... will that satisfy a General Courts Martial ??? Remember this nut-case commited murder on a military base while a member of the U.S. Armed Forces. The UCMJ should be paramount ! The civilan courts should not even think about trying him.
> 
> Thanks, Chris. Your warning was very timely and on the mark.
> 
> Charles



I think he will be tried under the UCMJ. And that should not rule out the possibility of treason as a charge in addition to the obvious charges of murder, assault, etc.. And you're right, this is no case for the civilian courts where some left wing activist judge could screw up the outcome.

TO


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## RabidAlien (Nov 9, 2009)

freebird said:


> Hung drawn quartered was the standard "reward" for treason in ye olde Britain.
> 
> 
> Question for you Adler, Les any other vets.
> ...



I'm not sure, but keep in mind that hindsight is always 20/20. There's enough slackers and malcontents who will try anything to get out of a deployment (we had one guy go AWOL in Hong Kong, then try to get a plane ticket home....without a passport!) that this guy just blended in. He made a committment, though, when he raised his hand and swore his oath to the Constitution. The military (any branch) is going to hold you to that oath. I would say its the rare exception that is allowed to early-terminate their contracts and pay the military back for their education.


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## timshatz (Nov 9, 2009)

Asked a friend of mine (who just retired after 23 years as a JAG) if he was:

1. Nutcase- tried as insane
2. Premeditated murder- planned and killed as part of a plan.
3. Treason- as he killed soliders in his own army.

He said he could probably be tried as all three. But the best people to try him were the Texans (ie, state of Texas) as they execute somebody down there every week and the US Military hadn't put someone to death in 35 years. 

Let Texas have him and this dude is toast (figuratively, I think "ole Sparky" has been retired and they do lethal injections) a lot faster and with less mishmash than in the Federal System.


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## ToughOmbre (Nov 9, 2009)

If this is true, and nothing was done.........   

Fort Hood Shooter Tried to Contact al Qaeda Terrorists, Officials Say - ABC News

TO


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## Glider (Nov 9, 2009)

I tend to believe that life in a millitary prison would be far worse than death. He may welcome death as he would see himself as a martyr and give the Taliban a propaganda victory. 
But life, every day not seeing any visitors, knowng that no one cares or remembers him. Plus of course, being under presure not knowing what was going to happen to him as I am sure the other inmates would shall we say, express their displeasure. 
No, full life would be far worse.


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## timshatz (Nov 9, 2009)

ToughOmbre said:


> If this is true, and nothing was done.........
> 
> Fort Hood Shooter Tried to Contact al Qaeda Terrorists, Officials Say - ABC News
> 
> TO



You gotta be $hittin' me! And this guy is a Major in the US Army!
Ahhhh fer cryin' out loud....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 9, 2009)

freebird said:


> Question for you Adler, Les any other vets.
> 
> It was reported that he was frustrated that the army would not let him "Buy back" his education credits instead of serving - do you think they should have?
> 
> ...



I have mixed feelings about that. I don't feel that anyone should be allowed to refuse service, just because they do not agree with a conflict or going on a deployment. When you joined the military, you know damn well you might have to go to war. You are not serving your religion but your country. Get over it, grow a pair of balls and do your damn job. It is not like this guy would have been out fighting anyhow, he would have been in a hospital on a big base, safe and sound treating soldiers that would have needed his help.

At the same time, I feel that if someone does not want to serve, then kick them out. I would be very harsh though and call it breach of contract. Make them pay back the education benefits, a dishonorable discharge (try getting a good job after that...) and reduction in rank and pay until the process is complete.

We actually have a guy on our airfield who is trying to do something very similar. He is refusing to fire a weapon and go to Iraq. Here is the kicker, he joined the Army in 2008. Sorry no excuses! Why the **** did you join the Army! Send him to Iraq, or throw him in jail and give him a dishonorable!


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## timshatz (Nov 9, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> He is refusing to fire a weapon and go to Iraq. Here is the kicker, he joined the Army in 2008.



Lemme guess, he joined for educational benefits and foriegn travel? And the swimming pool, did we mention the swimming pool....

I've heard some really stupid stuff, but to join the Army, any Army, in time of war and not expect to go where the war is nutz. 

Army oughta upgrade their IQ test cause they enlisted an idiot there.


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## diddyriddick (Nov 9, 2009)

Butters said:


> I don't think you're a fascist. What you are is so glaringly obvious that I don't need to point it out...
> 
> Do you realize that there are well over a million Muslims in the US? And that many of them were born there, which entitles them to exactly the same consideration as any other citizen? Are you aware that both the US and Canadian Constitution explicitly forbid any discrimination or privilege on the basis of religion or ethnicity? That's what makes our nations the exemplars of freedom. Unlike states like Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Nazi Germany. We use cattle cars for cattle, not our citizens...
> 
> ...



An eloquent post, Butters. Thank you.


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## diddyriddick (Nov 9, 2009)

freebird said:


> Hung drawn quartered was the standard "reward" for treason in ye olde Britain.
> 
> 
> Question for you Adler, Les any other vets.
> ...



Agreed with all, Bird. But lets forget about meting out punishment for a moment...

What is troubling to me is the same thing that troubles me about many other mass killers. You always see articles that say "he wasn't quite right" or something to that effect. Why are these things getting through the screening process?


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## diddyriddick (Nov 9, 2009)

Glider said:


> I tend to believe that life in a millitary prison would be far worse than death. He may welcome death as he would see himself as a martyr and give the Taliban a propaganda victory.
> But life, every day not seeing any visitors, knowng that no one cares or remembers him. Plus of course, being under presure not knowing what was going to happen to him as I am sure the other inmates would shall we say, express their displeasure.
> No, full life would be far worse.



Not to mention spending the rest of your life as a sex slave to someone named Clarence. See how he likes _that_ kind of martyrdom.


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## drgondog (Nov 9, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I have mixed feelings about that. I don't feel that anyone should be allowed to refuse service, just because they do not agree with a conflict or going on a deployment. When you joined the military, you know damn well you might have to go to war. You are not serving your religion but your country. Get over it, grow a pair of balls and do your damn job. It is not like this guy would have been out fighting anyhow, he would have been in a hospital on a big base, safe and sound treating soldiers that would have needed his help.
> 
> At the same time, I feel that if someone does not want to serve, then kick them out. I would be very harsh though and call it breach of contract. Make them pay back the education benefits, a dishonorable discharge (try getting a good job after that...) and reduction in rank and pay until the process is complete.
> 
> We actually have a guy on our airfield who is trying to do something very similar. He is refusing to fire a weapon and go to Iraq. Here is the kicker, he joined the Army in 2008. Sorry no excuses! Why the **** did you join the Army! Send him to Iraq, or throw him in jail and give him a dishonorable!



DD and out the door - same as a convicted felon


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## Thorlifter (Nov 9, 2009)

Amen!!!!

Note to Yahoo...........Please stop showing that sorry SOB's picture. He just killed a dozen servicemen so why give him any notoriety?


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## Clay_Allison (Nov 9, 2009)

I tend to believe that even most of the worst offenders in Leavenworth still love America and sympathize with the soldiers more than the traitor. Put him general population in the military prison then go on an easter egg hunt for the pieces of his body.


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## mudpuppy (Nov 9, 2009)

Somewhat related; Does anyone know of any memorial efforts for our wounded and murdered service members from Ft. Hood that may be taking place this Wednesday (Veteran's Day)? I remember after the 9/11 attacks there was a national moment of silence at aspecific time.
Thanks
db


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## Amsel (Nov 9, 2009)

Here is something for Butters, since the terrorist angle is a red herring.



> As a U.S. Army psychiatrist treating soldiers who had returned from Iraq and Afghanistan, Major Nidal Malik Hasan had a front-row seat for the brutal toll of war. It is too early to know what may have triggered his murderous shooting rampage on Nov. 5 at Fort Hood in Texas — Hasan is accused of killing 12 people and wounding 32 others before he was wounded by a police officer — but it is not uncommon for therapists treating soldiers with posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) to be swept up in patients' displays of war-related paranoia, helplessness and fury.
> 
> Read more: Hasan Fort Hood Shooting: 'Secondary Trauma' to Blame? - TIME


Liberals and their delusions.


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## Clay_Allison (Nov 9, 2009)

I wonder how many Islamic servicemen are quietly having their clearances re-investigated.


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## wheelsup_cavu (Nov 9, 2009)

Clay_Allison said:


> I wonder how many Islamic servicemen are quietly having their clearances re-investigated.


IMO, more than ever will be admitted.


Wheels


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## B-17engineer (Nov 9, 2009)

GREAT! Some Muslim man called this guys actions, Heroic. 

Well f**k you sir!


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## Clay_Allison (Nov 9, 2009)

wheelsup_cavu said:


> IMO, more than ever will be admitted.
> 
> 
> Wheels


IMO More muslims approve of this attack than will ever admit it. You can't trust a long-serving officer who has taken an oath to save lives. Draw conclusions.


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## Amsel (Nov 9, 2009)

Here is an interesting piece written by a muslim women who is fighting against religious extremism inside the world of Islam.



> Not long ago, inside the quiet library of the Muslim Community Center here in Silver Spring, Maryland, a suburb of Washington, D.C., Golam Akhter, a local Bangladeshi-American civil engineer, 67, got into a fierce debate with a young Muslim doctor over how to interpret the concept of “jihad” within Islam. Akhter argued, “Jihad means an inner struggle, fighting against corruption and injustice.”
> 
> The young doctor responded. “That’s not a correct interpretation. Jihad means holy war. When your religion isn’t safe, you have to fight for it. If someone attacks you, you must fight them. That is jihad. You can kill someone who is harming you.”
> The conversation would be just another theological debate, interesting but irrelevant, except that the doctor was Maj. Nidal Hasan, 39, the gunman in the tragic Fort Hood rampage. After being posted to Walter Reed Hospital as a psychiatrist, Hasan called the Muslim Community Center his local mosque. It’s just a short drive away from Walter Reed....
> ...


Inside the Gunman's Mosque - The Daily Beast


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## Amsel (Nov 9, 2009)

Butters said:


> You've given no evidence whatsoever to support your assertions. Well, except for where you say that you don't think that you have a screw loose. For once, I agree. I don't think that you have 'a' screw loose, either...
> 
> JL



The feeling is mutual......


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## Butters (Nov 9, 2009)

Amsel said:


> Here is something for Butters, since the terrorist angle is a red herring.
> 
> 
> Liberals and their delusions.



I didn't say that Hasan is NOT a terrorist. I said that I don't know if he is. At least in the sense of being a recognized member of a terrorist organization. And that because Hasan had attended mosque services in the presence of members of a terrorist organisation, it does not a priori follow that he is also the member of a terrorist organization. That's a logical fallacy any way you look at it.

That political motivation was a major factor in the killings seems self-evident. But it wouldn't be the first time that a lone wolf gunman has sprayed innocent people with bullets in a public place while screaming ideological or religious slogans. I guess you could define all such people as 'terrorists', regardless of whether or not they are clinically insane...

JL


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## GrauGeist (Nov 9, 2009)

That douchebag's actions place him well within the confines of a terrorist by definition, regardless of his political or religious connections...


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 10, 2009)

Yea I gotta agree with you on this one. Having read more I certainly think the Treason charge can be on the table.


Religions and politics are perfect, until you get people involved.


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## Butters (Nov 10, 2009)

Some more info on the killer:

NewsDaily: Fort Hood suspect contacted Islamist: sources

JL


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## Clay_Allison (Nov 10, 2009)

I doubt he was a member of a terrorist group. I don't think that he was when he joined the army and I don't think they would trust him after he was already a member of the US armed forces. I think he realized that Islam really does call for the death of non-Muslims and decided he had to do what the prophet said.


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## Amsel (Nov 10, 2009)

What really worries me is how out in the open this guy was with his radical religious beliefs. He was not secret about his dislike of America. 
What the hell is wrong with us. The FBI was supposed to be getting their stuff together after Sept.11 but it seems that they haven't. Heads need to roll over this. Napalitano needs to be fired for sure. 

How did an openly anti-American muslim who attended a pro jihadist mosque, and had low fitness reports make major in the US military while we are at war against radical Islam???

Affirmative action?? 

There needs to be a congressional investigation on how these attacks on us should be stopped. I'm afraid that this is not an isolated incident nor will it be the last terrorist attack against us.


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## ToughOmbre (Nov 10, 2009)

Amsel said:


> What really worries me is how out in the open this guy was with his radical religious beliefs. He was not secret about his dislike of America.
> What the hell is wrong with us. The FBI was supposed to be getting their stuff together after Sept.11 but it seems that they haven't. Heads need to roll over this. Napalitano needs to be fired for sure.
> 
> How did an openly anti-American muslim who attended a pro jihadist mosque, and had low fitness reports make major in the US military while we are at war against radical Islam???
> ...



Political Correctness by the US Army (and by this country in general) is at least partly to blame, along with just about every agency of the government that is charged with protecting us. 

If this army major was a white Christian and was venting his hatred and dislike of America, Muslims, Jews, Blacks, etc., he would have been DD'd long ago, at the very least.

Our country better get it's head out of it's collective ass, stop worrying about hurting peoples feelings and get on with the job of kicking the sh*t out of our enemies, wherever they may rear their ugly heads!

The mistakes made prior to this tragedy in Fort Hood are unforgivable in the post 9/11 world in which we live!

TO


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## lesofprimus (Nov 10, 2009)

Im sick over this sh!t.... This guy will be held in solitary for sure, cause he wont survive general population, anywhere.....


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## Clay_Allison (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm a former correctional officer, I can tell you that more guys than you'd think in prison spent a few years in the service. I can guarantee they'd kill him before the door swung shut if you let him out of protective custody.


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## Amsel (Nov 10, 2009)

Interesting opinion of Lt.Col. Ralph Peters...



> As President Obama belatedly appears at Fort Hood today, will he dare to speak the word "terror?"
> 
> He won't use the word "Islamist." If he mentions Islam at all, it'll be to sing its praises yet again.
> 
> ...


Deadly denial


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## timshatz (Nov 11, 2009)

Ya' gotta love Ralph.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 12, 2009)

Charges have been brought on the _terrorist murderer_ (yeah that is what I think of him, nothing more than a coward terrorist murderer).

*Army: Fort Hood suspect charged with murder - Yahoo! News*

_FORT HOOD, Texas – The Army psychiatrist suspected in a deadly rampage at Fort Hood, Texas, has been charged in a military court with 13 counts of premeditated murder.

U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command spokesman Chris Grey told a news conference Thursday at the Texas base that additional charges may also be filed against Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.

Hasan is suspected of killing 12 soldiers and one civilian in last Thursday's shooting spree at Fort Hood. He was shot and wounded by two police officers at the base, and remains in recovery at an Army hospital in San Antonio. His attorney says he was read the charges at the hospital.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

WASHINGTON (AP) — Military officials say the Army psychiatrist accused of killing 13 and wounding 29 in last week's shooting rampage at his military post in Texas will face 13 charges of premeditated murder under the military's legal system. The decision makes him eligible for the death penalty if convicted.

A formal announcement about the charges against Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan is expected later Thursday. Two U.S. military officials described the charges to the AP on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about the case publicly.

The officials said it is not yet decided whether to charge Hasan with a 14th count of murder related to the death of the unborn child of a pregnant shooting victim._

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091112/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_fort_hood_shooting_charges


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## Erich (Nov 12, 2009)

where's Clint Eastwood to deal out the justice ?


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## timshatz (Nov 12, 2009)

Heard the Main Stream Media is trying to call what Nidal had as "Pre-PTSD". 

When you think about it, isn't that another word for cowardice?


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## ToughOmbre (Nov 12, 2009)

Note to the liberal media of this country, and to the president.....

This coward is a.....

*MUSLIM TERRORIST!*

Stop the political correctness! PC got those good people killed!

Wake up America!

TO


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## pbfoot (Nov 12, 2009)

I'm sure all the facts will come out in court , the US is supposed to have a fairly good justice system


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## B-17engineer (Nov 12, 2009)

Anybody watch Fox when they were in his house??

Pretty dam scary.

There was a green lock box in the sink titled "Do not open." 

A Door titled "DO NOT OPEN." 

No food in the fridge.

Prayer mats all over the room. 

Foreign Jordanian coins sitting on the table. 

Plenty more. Just a few 'odd' things in my mind.


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## Maestro (Nov 14, 2009)

ToughOmbre said:


> Stop the political correctness! PC got those good people killed!



Yup. PC is what is gonna kill the western society. (I'm including all Western countries, here.)

If he is sentenced to death, I wonder what will be the execution like... Shot like a soldier, or hanged like a spy ? (Or me be it's just me being "old-school", here.)


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## Butters (Nov 14, 2009)

Reducing the complexity of the world to a bold and simple black-and-white cartoon may be very emotionally satisfying, but it ain't gonna be of much use if your goal is to find a means of identifying potentially dangerous people so as to prevent them from carrying out violent acts. For that job, you have to recognize and deal with the cold, hard facts in as objective a manner as possible.

Slapping a label on Hasan will not explain why he, an American-born and raised Muslim who has clearly demonstrated his intelligence and diligence by becoming both a doctor and an officer in the US military, chose to carry out a premeditated act of mass murder against his fellow soldiers. The bare fact that he was a Muslim is not a sufficient explanation for his actions. There are, after all, well over a million other Muslims in the US, and all these people are not running around slaughtering innocent people. So why did this particular Muslim act so differently from the vast majority of his fellow Muslim Americans? 

That's the question that needs to be answered if you want to prevent similar atrocities in the future. Making bogus claims that your ideological opponents are implicit accomplices in this crime is not only slanderous, it's down right ludicrous. I'm probably as disdainful of PC as anyone here, but I also know that it wasn't PC that killed those people. Hasan did. And the moral responsibility for his actions are his alone. Just as pro-gun, anti-federalist Tomothy McVeigh was solely responsible for his slaughter of innocent people. Because despite their psychological deviations, neither men were/are 'insane' by the definitional criteria of law or medicine. They may have believed that their actions were justified by their twisted moral beliefs, but they also clearly knew that what they were planning to do was both legally and morally 'wrong' by the standards of their society. IOW, the explanatory fact that both men were clearly mental deviants does not a priori absolve them of the personal moral/legal responsibility for their actions. Because an explanation is NOT a justification.

The bogus conflation of explanation and justification is rife in this thread. Many here are outraged at what they perceive to be an ideological agenda to excuse Hasan of moral responsibility. However, while skepticism of explanatory psychological/sociological claims , ie: 'Pre-PTSD' etc, is completely justified, the wide-spread belief that those claims are in and of themselves, 'justifications', is not. The explanations may or may not be valid to some degree, but they do not, regardless of their possible validity, absolve Hasan of responsibility. That is an entirely separate issue. To be decided by the court that tries him. It is up to them to examine the various evidence and explanations, and to decide whether they are relevant to the legal and moral issues involved.

Whether Hasan qualifies for the label of 'terrorist', is ultimately irrelevant. If he is, he certainly wasn't a very devious one. What I've read about him leads me to speculate that while he may have decided to go out in a murderous blaze of Islamist 'glory' in emulation of Islamist terrorists, the reason that he chose to do so had more to do with his FU'ed personality than the bare fact that he was born into a Muslim family. 20/20 hindsight reveals that he also fits the profile of many other alienated and paranoid misfit loners who became mass murderers. In any case, he is too complex to be usefully explained by a simple word.

JL


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## ccheese (Nov 14, 2009)

Damn good post, Butters !! 

Altho, you will get a lot of flak about it. There are those on this forum who really believe in racial profiling, 
and because his name is Hasan and because he is a Muslim is good enough for them to pronounce sentence.

Charles


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## Messy1 (Nov 14, 2009)

I do not care for or like general statements such "all muslims are bad". My dad makes general statements like that once in a while and we have gotten into a heated discussion about things like that. I agree, most muslims, the large percentage are god fearing, morally sound, decent people. They do have their fair share of wackos as does any religion. 
I think the problem is that this guy was not rooted out sooner even though he was being watched, is fear of law suits, reprisals from lawyers, fear of being labeled racists, etc. Seems there is too much ability for those who are accused of crimes even when there is ample evidence, to retaliate against their accusers. Maybe the evidence was not strong enough to convict him of anything before he went on his rampage, but would it have been enough to discharge him from the military? Labeling the prosecution or organization,(police force, military branch, whatever fits) as a racist, or dragging them through the mud is a tactic used all too often nowadays to smear the reputation of the accuser. Fear of huge multi million dollar lawsuits have gone a long way to preventing people like this guy from being dealt with before a tragedy like this happens.


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## Amsel (Nov 14, 2009)

Butters said:


> Whether Hasan qualifies for the label of 'terrorist', is ultimately irrelevant. If he is, he certainly wasn't a very devious one. What I've read about him leads me to speculate that while he may have decided to go out in a murderous blaze of Islamist 'glory' in emulation of Islamist terrorists, the reason that he chose to do so had more to do with his FU'ed personality than the bare fact that he was born into a Muslim family. 20/20 hindsight reveals that he also fits the profile of many other alienated and paranoid misfit loners who became mass murderers. In any case, he is too complex to be usefully explained by a simple word.
> 
> JL



While the world is definantly not black and white but shades of grey; there is such thing as good and evil to many of us. As we watch the moral decay of the west weaken another generation even more, I think we need to be seeing in more of black and white. 

I see what you are trying to convey to us, and I even understand why you feel that way. You fear a backlash against muslims. I want you to know that a muslim in America is much more safer then a Christian in the Middle East. I have no animosity towards muslims and deal with them on a day to day basis because the high percentage of them in Texas. I have nothing but contempt and hate for the enemies of the United States of America. Right now that happens to be the Islamic jihad against the west and particularly the US and Isreal. Most people are smart enough to differentiate between good and bad people of any religion despite the liberal elitists view otherwise.

I don't think of Hasan as a terrorist or an enemy combatant but as a treasonous murderer. A lowdown turncoat who turned on his comrades in arms and killed them while they were vulnerable. If the nations liberal media was not infected with insanity they would see the obvious and not be trying to help Hasan by reporting and investigating on all of the most counter-intuitive excuses they can find for what average Americans are smart enough to see for themselves. Murderous treason has been committed. There is no good excuse for it from an American point of view.


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## RabidAlien (Nov 14, 2009)

Muslim...Mormon...Lutheran....Southern Baptist......I don't care what his religious affiliations were. He cold-bloodedly murdered 13 people, including a pregnant woman and her unborn child. For those two deaths alone, he should fry. He's paralyzed now, and someone is gonna try tossing the sympathy card for that. Screw them. Let him suffer while our justice system muddles along....it'll let them finish the special level of hell that's reserved for him. 

And yes, trying to blame the whole Muslim community for the actions of a few militant idiots is wrong. We should've learned that with our Japanese-American citizens during WW2. So Hasan should fry. Not because of who he is, but because of what he did.


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## GrauGeist (Nov 14, 2009)

AND, they need to stop referring to that douchebag as the "alleged" gunman...

There was nothing alledged about it, he was caught with weapon in hand, had dozens of credible first-hand eyewitnesses that placed him at the scene during the commission of his chicken-sh!t murder spree...

Nothing alledged about it.


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## Amsel (Nov 14, 2009)

ccheese said:


> Damn good post, Butters !!
> 
> Altho, you will get a lot of flak about it. There are those on this forum who really believe in racial profiling,
> and because his name is Hasan and because he is a Muslim is good enough for them to pronounce sentence.
> ...


Muslim extremists have no place in the US Army. Muslim extremists abuse goats and hate women.


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## ToughOmbre (Nov 15, 2009)

Butters said:


> I'm probably as disdainful of PC as anyone here, but I also know that it wasn't PC that killed those people. Hasan did.



No not directly, but certainly indirectly, that is if we agree on what the definition of PC is. 

From Wiki..... 

*Political correctness is a term denoting language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social offense in gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, handicap, and age-related contexts.*

That is exactly what those in the army were doing in turning a blind eye to the rantings and behavior of this cowardly traitor. He should have been thrown out of the military long ago!

I'm not condemning the entire group of American Muslims, I only condemn those who commit and/or condone acts of terrorism. You can call Hasan anything you care to, makes no difference to me. I recognize him for what he is, an Islamic, extremist, jihadist, murdering, terrorist! 

TO


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## Amsel (Nov 16, 2009)

washingtonpost.com


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## Maestro (Nov 18, 2009)

Sh*t... I don't know what to reply to this... I'm speechless.


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## RabidAlien (Nov 18, 2009)

Yeah, now the news is blaming the military (all branches!!) for not recognizing the signs sooner and doing something about him. Sure. If they'd moved on him before he wigged out, the Army would've been blasted for being racist, discriminating, intolerant, profiling warmongering dirtbags....I frikkin hate the media these days.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 18, 2009)

RabidAlien said:


> Yeah, now the news is blaming the military (all branches!!) for not recognizing the signs sooner and doing something about him. Sure. If they'd moved on him before he wigged out, the Army would've been blasted for being racist, discriminating, intolerant, profiling warmongering dirtbags....I frikkin hate the media these days.



Very true, it really is a no win situation. **** him, try him and then hang him.


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## Clay_Allison (Nov 18, 2009)

If only Master Sergeant John C. Woods was still around.


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## Erich (Nov 18, 2009)

no trial send him to the IDF, they would take him out into the unknown and be rid of him

why is this anything surprising to us guys - media involvement and comment


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Nov 18, 2009)

Son of b!tch, try him, fry him, and be done with it. Agree with you RA, the media sucks!


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## renrich (Nov 18, 2009)

TO and Ralph Peters have it right. PC is a major problem in this country as well as probably others. There are undoubtedly many people in the US who are Muslims and good citizens but every Muslim in our military should be kept an eye on. Not nearly as serious as Fort Hood but Bob Griese was suspended for one week recently by his network for quipping when a Latino race car driver, I think, missed an interview, "that he was out for a taco." PC run amok.


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## B-17engineer (Dec 2, 2009)

Charged with 32 accounts of Premeditated murder and attempted murder!! Hope you like the chair b!tch! 

Saw this on fox news. Can't find it on the web though.


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## Erich (Dec 2, 2009)

do you think this low life cares ? he has it in his mind he is going into the after life to see friends and babes' too bad sucka your god/eternal afterlife does not exist !


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Dec 2, 2009)

Erich said:


> do you think this low life cares ? he has it in his mind he is going into the after life to see friends and babes' too bad sucka your god/eternal afterlife does not exist !



From what my brother told me in his Islamic World class, they really aren't promised virgins, they're promised raisins. The actual translation from the Koran means raisins, to signify not going hungry. 

Either way, I hope they miss his veins doing the lethal injection, so he'll have a few more minutes of agony.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 2, 2009)

The chair and lethal injection are too easy on him. He needs a harsher punishment.


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## B-17engineer (Dec 2, 2009)

Take a ball and chain and hit him multiple times.


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## Erich (Dec 2, 2009)

personally they should go medieval on him. this is an army matter not for the civil courts


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## B-17engineer (Dec 2, 2009)

Yea! 

*Chants, Chain and ball!, chain and ball!*


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## Amsel (Dec 2, 2009)

Heres an AP article.
Fort Hood suspect charged with attempted murder


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## javlin (Dec 2, 2009)

Do like that General in the Phillipines did bullets soaked in pigs blood scares the yippees out of them,"I'm going too Hell" to bad


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## Maestro (Dec 3, 2009)

Vassili Zaitzev said:


> Either way, I hope they miss his veins doing the lethal injection, so he'll have a few more minutes of agony.



Nah... Just do like in the movie "The Green Mile", and do NOT wet the sponge before "hitting the juice".


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## A4K (Dec 3, 2009)

We just had a student shooting last Thursday here in Pécs... 23 year old student, apparently schizophrene, on anti-depressants. Noone knew how bad, as he always bought them at different chemists. Outsider at school, hassled for being 'weird' and 'probably a faggot'. School day as normal, at 13:00 he suddenly pulled out a .22 handgun, and started shooting his classmates. Killed a 19 year old chemistry student, and wounded a teacher, one or two other students, and the janitor. School was closed off by police but he slipped the net, found him 5 mins later at the nearby hospital where he surrendered himself. That's as much as I know, facts are still unveiling... No personal comments to add at this point...


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## RabidAlien (Dec 3, 2009)

Dang, hate to hear that, A4K. Can't help but think, though, that it would've been over a lot sooner if more people were trained properly and licensed for concealed-carry...and allowed to carry.


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## diddyriddick (Dec 3, 2009)

B-17engineer said:


> Take a ball and chain and hit him multiple times.



I've a different idea. Give him life, and put him in the general population. I'd like to hear him scream "Alahu Akhbar" while he is being sodomized by Bubba with the Tattoo that says "Lou."


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## Messy1 (Dec 3, 2009)

He will fry in hell. That's for sure!


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## Amsel (Dec 3, 2009)

> It's been brought to my attention by several reliable sources that the Defense Department has brought Louay Safi to Fort Hood as an instructor, and that he has been lecturing on Islam to our troops in Fort Hood who are about to deploy to Afghanistan. Safi is a top official of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), and served as research director at the International Institute of Islamic Thought (IIIT).
> 
> Worse, last evening, Safi was apparently permitted to present a check (evidently on behalf of ISNA) to the families of the victims of last month's Fort Hood massacre. A military source told the blogger Barbarossa at the Jawa Report: "This is nothing short of blood money. This is criminal and the Ft. Hood base commander should be fired right now."
> 
> ...


Somebody at Fort Hood Should Be Walking the Plank - Andy McCarthy - The Corner on National Review Online


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## Clay_Allison (Dec 4, 2009)

> We just had a student shooting last Thursday here in Pécs... 23 year old student, apparently schizophrene, on anti-depressants. Noone knew how bad, as he always bought them at different chemists. Outsider at school, hassled for being 'weird' and 'probably a faggot'. School day as normal, at 13:00 he suddenly pulled out a .22 handgun, and started shooting his classmates. Killed a 19 year old chemistry student, and wounded a teacher, one or two other students, and the janitor. School was closed off by police but he slipped the net, found him 5 mins later at the nearby hospital where he surrendered himself. That's as much as I know, facts are still unveiling... No personal comments to add at this point...



I'm a teacher and people on this forum say "something is wrong with me" because I'd feel safer with a gun to defend myself and my students.


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## Erich (Dec 4, 2009)

Clay

you are not alone but sadly the world has become a very passive, wus society of folk(s). it will get worse just wait


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