# Damaging / destroying aircrafts



## Francis marliere (Sep 20, 2004)

Assume that a WWII plane is hit by another plane or by flak. What are the chances that the target is destroyed or just damaged, assuming that the shooter is
- a poorly armed fighter (Ki.43, G.50, ...)
- a fighter with standard armament (Me.109, P-40, ...)
- a fighter with powerfull armament (Tempest, Fw 190, ...)
- a 40 mm Bofors AA gun
- a 3 to 5 " AA gun

and the target is
- a fighter
- a light / medium bomber
- a heavy bomber

Thanks for help


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 20, 2004)

It would depend on several factors, not the least of which is the durability of the target (both the P-47 and Zero were fighters but the P-47 was vastly more durable). But I would say there were very few aircraft that would survive a direct hit from a heavy AA gun (i.e. German 88mm, the US 5"/38, etc.).


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 20, 2004)

and what you mean by hit?? a couple of shots or a long burst?? where was it hit??


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## Francis marliere (Sep 20, 2004)

I of course understand that a snapshot on a 300 knots-fighter is not the same as a long burst against a slow moving target, but, it is impossible to take care of every detail.
I assume here an average (1 second) burst, understanding that only a few of the fired shells / bullets actually hit.

Regards


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 20, 2004)

I would say that a well-aimed, 0 deflection, 1 sec burst from a heavily armed fighter would down pretty much any other fighter and most (if not all) medium/light bombers but probably would not destroy a 4-engined heavy.


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## Gemhorse (Sep 20, 2004)

Whether it's a rifle-calibre bullet or an AA shell-burst, it's WHERE it hits that determines the damage or destruction....many have made it home from those near-misses....


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## evangilder (Sep 21, 2004)

Good point Gem and LG. I recently saw a picture of an He-111 with over 50 bullet holes in it. They were all .30 caliber bullets and none of them did enough damage for the Heinkel to not make it home! But that same bullet, placed through the cockpit at the right angle could have ended that bomber's (and possibly pilot as well) career. While gunnery skills will get you to hit the target, I still think there is a fair amount of luck and fate that determines where it strikes.

If you hit a B-24 heavy with a direct flak burst between the engines, chances are good that the davis wing would fold up and that would be the end of it. The pictures of that kind of instance are unfortunately fairly common.

The B-17 was a bit more durable, but again, the right shot in the right place would down it.

Too many variables in combat to make a definitive answer.


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## Francis marliere (Sep 21, 2004)

Surely, damage inflicted by gunfire deponds mainly on luck. A .303 round at the good place (on the pilot's head, ...) is better than a 20 or 30 mm shell that doesn't explode or at a bad place.
But I'm talking about average statistics.
I just wonder about things like 
" a Spitfire MkI manages to hit a Me 109E ; what are the average chances that the target is down or just damaged ? 50 / 50 % ? or 75 / 25 % ? or even 25 / 75 ? or something else ?

Thanks for help


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 21, 2004)

To try and guess about this is difficult (and it is just a guess). If we are to consider every instance in which a Spit Mk I hit a 109E (regardless of the number of actual strikes and the location of those strikes) I would imagine the percentage would be fairly low, somewhere around the 25/75 number you suggested. But as I said, that's all just speculation on my part.


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## evangilder (Sep 21, 2004)

Well, if you score a hit there will certainly be damage, whether superficial or worse. The original Mk I spits had 8 .303 machine guns, so it was pretty meek in terms of firepower. The Hispano cannons helped later by giving a bit more than a peashooter. 

The angle of the shot and the placement would make a huge difference too, as well as how close you are when you make the shot. I remember years ago playing the Battle of Britain simulator "Their Finest Hour" and was surprised at how much lead I had to pump into a 109 to put it out of commission. 

So with a single burst 25/75 sounds probably close. The skill set of both pilots would also be a factor.


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 21, 2004)

I've been giving this a little thought. The only way a single hit from a .303 is going to bring down an aircraft is if it kills the pilot. The easiest angles to hit the pilot are, of course, from directly ahead or directly astern. From directly ahead, however, the pilot is protected by an armored windscreen and that big DB engine. From astern, there is sufficient armor to provided ample protection against even AP .303 ammo. The only chance would thus be a high deflection (and highly improbable shot). A short burst from a Spit Mk. I seems to have little chance of bringing down an even decently protected aircraft.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 21, 2004)

it also depends on the plane, you're generalising when you say 4 engined heavies, the lanc and B-17 have very different damage tollerances............


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 21, 2004)

Well this whole thing is a sent of generalizations.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 21, 2004)

i think he needs to specify exactly what he wants, then it'll be easy..................


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 21, 2004)

I don't think anything about this will be easy. There are simply WAY too many factors involved.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 22, 2004)

i recon we could do it, he just needs to tell us what he wants.................


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 22, 2004)

Well he gave us several generalizations in his initial entry. I guess basically we just need him to tell us what he means by a hit.


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## Francis marliere (Sep 23, 2004)

I assume by "hit" that the target is actually hit by a decent, average burst.


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## johnny (Sep 23, 2004)

I've seen lots of gun-camera photos and all of them seem to show a kill being achieved by a single burst.Be it 0.303 or 30mm cannon.It would depend on where you hit your target.Put 1 20mm cannon in a pratt&whitney and it will stop.But you could put 20 of them in a B17 fuselage to no avail.


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 23, 2004)

1 20mm will not necessarily stop a P&W. P-47s came back from ground attack sorties with whole clyniders shot away. There probably wasn't a more rugged engine than the R-2800.


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## evangilder (Sep 23, 2004)

True, the 2800 was an incredibly durable engine. That was also used on the B-17. You could get a lucky shot with a 20mm and take the engine out, but if you just hit one of the jugs, that wouldn't do it. It wouldn't fly well missing a jug, but it would still fly. Again, there are alot of variables.


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 23, 2004)

The B-17 was powered by Wright R-1820s. The only American bomber of the war to use the R-2800 was (as far as I know) the A-26.


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## evangilder (Sep 23, 2004)

OOPS. I always get those 2 engines mixed up! Argh. Thanks for the correction. The 1820s are also in the T-28 trojans though. We have about a dozen -28s down at Camarillo airport and it took a bit to get used to hearing four of them fly over and not think it was a B-17.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 24, 2004)

the P-47 was one of the two most durable single engined fighers of the war...........


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## evangilder (Sep 24, 2004)

It sure was, Lanc. I read a story about some P-47 pilots doing an attack run and had trouble finding the target, so they flew THROUGH the trees to find it! I will see if I can find that article again and post it.

I heard a joke that the P-47 couldn't really be shot down, you just had to put bullets into it until it was too heavy to fly.


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## evangilder (Sep 24, 2004)

Found it...

The P-47 was a rugged airplane, without a doubt.
During the Battle of the Bulge in 1944, German Field
Marshal von Rundstedt had hidden a munitions dump in
the woods of the Ardennes. P-47s were called upon to
destroy it, but they couldn't find it because of the
thick trees. What did the frustrated pilots do then?
They flew through the tops of the trees!

Pratt Whitney's representative in Europe, Martin
Graham, was there not long afterwards. "You could see
by the shattered trees and the torn branches where the
P-47s had gone through. You'd have to see it to
believe it. Those crazy kids couldn't see what was
hidden from above, so they went right into the forest
to find out. They cut a path right through the top of
the woods. They said every plane that went in and
chewed out the tunnel came out flying, too." (? The
Pratt Whitney Aircraft Story)


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 25, 2004)

I'm curious Lanc, what was the other single-engined fighter you were refering to?


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## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2004)

The Corsair????


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## Crazy (Sep 25, 2004)

evangilder said:


> Found it...
> 
> The P-47 was a rugged airplane, without a doubt.
> During the Battle of the Bulge in 1944, German Field
> ...



 

That would be a sight worth seeing


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 26, 2004)

yes i was thinking of the corsair................


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

Crazy said:


> evangilder said:
> 
> 
> > Found it...
> ...



Too damn right  shock:


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 26, 2004)

a stirling once made it back after crashing into a tree...........


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

but stirlings are bombers, so naturally they'll be stronger. and they have 4 engines to operate from, P-47's have only got the one.


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## evangilder (Sep 26, 2004)

Yes, seeing the -47s flying through the trees would have been something else. Could you imagine what the Germans were thinking when they saw THAT?! I am sure it was something along the lines of "HOLY SH*T!!!"


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## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

I would think thats something one would not practice more than once...


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## evangilder (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't think it was practiced beforehand. Could you imagine the student pilot on hearing they were going to fly through trees! I would think that would be hard on the prop, engines and airframe. More than once would be foolhardy IMO.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

I agree...


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## evangilder (Sep 26, 2004)

Now that I think about it, doing it once is crazy! I guess the very first one to do it is either a hero, or a fool!


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## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

Based on the story, I would say a Hero.. Under any other circumstance, the pilot(s) (FOOLS) would have been grounded....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 26, 2004)

> Could you imagine what the Germans were thinking when they saw THAT?! I am sure it was something along the lines of "HOLY SH*T!!!"



but in german................


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 26, 2004)

S***T is Schizer or something like that aint it?


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## GermansRGeniuses (Sep 26, 2004)

Shit=Scheisse


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## johnny (Sep 27, 2004)

True.Pity the same cannot be applied to my beloved Defiants though, 1 small nick in its Rolls-Royce and it was tickets.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 27, 2004)

well the fact that one of the best ways to attack a defaint was from the sides made the pilot very vaunerable................


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## Gemhorse (Sep 27, 2004)

Maybe putting a Griffon in it plus some cannon in the wings would've helped it...Defiants did great work in the initial role starting the Nightfighting War....if only they had got underneath the German bombers and let-strip with those 4x .303's, like the German 'Shrage Musik' installation in their nightfighters....Firing forwards in the Defiant, ruined the pilot's night vision from the gunflash, but they got the Allies started, along with the Hurricanes searchlights, until radar in Blenheims took it a step further.....


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## johnny (Sep 28, 2004)

Defiants also hold the record (to this day) for enemy aircraft destroyed in 1 day.38 destroyed by 264 Sqn during the Battle of Britain.Was short lived though , they soon found all of its weaknesses.


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## plan_D (Sep 28, 2004)

A one second burst off eight .303 machine guns could bring down a BF-109, without killing the pilot. Anything could happen, control surfaces could get torn apart for example. With your elevators stuck up right forcing your plane facing down, you'll want to get out and keep yourself alive.


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## johnny (Sep 28, 2004)

If you were the gunner in a Defiant you rarely got out alive!


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## plan_D (Sep 28, 2004)

That's not as bad as being in a B-25 Roc, generally.


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## johnny (Sep 28, 2004)

I believe that Rocs served until 1943 , when the last one was written off in 
Bermuda due to lack of spares.My mums uncle flew Typhoons in the war and always said that the Spitfire was the glory plane during the war but the other types like his and the Hurricane did all the work.Never did believe him! ( am probably biased towards the Spitfire)


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## plan_D (Sep 28, 2004)

You shouldn't believe him. The Spitfire did, in fact, do most of the work. The Hurricane was the work horse during the Battle of Britain but after that the Spitfire was the shining model in the skies over Europe. 

The Spitfire PR.IX and .XIX were probably the most important recce planes of the European war. It did ground attack, fighter duties and the recce role and it was excellent at the latter two.


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## johnny (Sep 28, 2004)

That was one of the most important jobs during the war.Can you imagine doing a bombing attack without it.Getting to target and finding 10/10th cloud.Bloody horrible.


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## plan_D (Sep 28, 2004)

10/10th cloud and 3 batteries of 24 FlaK36 88mm cannon each. Or even worse, that the target that was a depot has moved. Instead of damaging the fighting capability, you annoy some French or German farmers.


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 28, 2004)

I hardly think 38 kills by one type of fighter can be considered the record. During the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot, the US Navy destroyed upwards of 380 IJN aircraft in a single day and the vast majority of those kills would have been made by the Hellcat.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 28, 2004)

You beat me to that one LG...


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## Gemhorse (Sep 29, 2004)

I think in all fairness plan-D, the Typhoons did alot of very dangerous work, and they didn't receive much recognition [compared to the Spitfire Sqn.'s]....You may want to check-out 'RAF 198 Sqn.' on the Net, these guys, as with all the Typhoon Sqn.'s, suffered big losses breaking in the Typhoon and clearing the Way for the D-Day attack and subsequent invasion....


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## plan_D (Sep 29, 2004)

Now, now Gemhorse I'm not saying that the other aircraft didn't do anything. I'm saying people who say that the Spitfire was just a glory hog, are completely wrong. It did a hell of a lot of work from start to finish.


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## Gemhorse (Sep 29, 2004)

Yeah, they did get the nickname 'Brylcream Boys' !!!...but even the Tempest pilots got more glory than the Typhoon pilots, which is a shame, they were hoping the Typhoon would really sort-out the Fw-190's but their forte became ground-attack, such was their stable attack-platform with thick wings like Hurricanes.....Tempests had much thinner elliptical-like wings better for combat....Spits on all fronts worked hard.....


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 29, 2004)

But, as a general rule, it is always the air-to-air fighters that get the glory.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 29, 2004)

Yup... Either them or a pilot who destroys over 500 tanks in an outdated, slow, and generally underdesigned bomber....


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## evangilder (Sep 29, 2004)

The reason fighter get the glory is because they have been romanticized, and the general cockiness of the pilots. Speaking of that, do you know the difference between a fighter pilot and God?
God doesn't think he is a fighter pilot!


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## johnny (Sep 29, 2004)

I'm a twin seater fan so I would agree with u.I dont see why 1 guy should get all the glory.It was after all a team (allied) effort wasnt it.Sure it must have been nice t ohave been posted to a fighter squadron but twin seaters r for me.I recall Sir Leonard Chesire saying that he was initially disappointed to have been posted to a heavy bomber squadron and not a fighter squadron but he soon said that to succeed and survive u should have at least 2 engines , preferably 4 , and regarded the single engine fighters as dangerous contraptions.He went on to 100 missions with a VC and DSO with bar.Not bad for a heavy bomber pilot.


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## plan_D (Sep 29, 2004)

Well if there is one pilot in that seat then that pilot should get glory. Fighter pilots were there to rule the skies so the other aircraft could do their job, without fighters to clear the skies the rest of the airforce would be pointless.


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 29, 2004)

There is a saying, 'Fighter pilots make movies, Bomber pilots make history.' Granted fighters and air superiority are absolutely essential but they are only a support measure to allow bombers and ground attack aircraft to do their job.


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## evangilder (Sep 29, 2004)

Agreed, fighters are an essential element to clear the way for bombers and transports to get through. There has always been that element of danger and bravado that goes with it as well. When dogfighting, it is man to man, like a sport in some ways. There was a great deal of respect shown between pilots as well. I once read a story about a fighter pilot, may have been a mustang, but I am not sure, that got on the tail of a German fighter and blasted the plane. He watched as the pilot bailed out. As the American pilot flew by, he saw the German snap to attention in mid-air and snap a salute to him.


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## plan_D (Sep 29, 2004)

Fighters also prevent the enemies bombing actions, which in turn protects the ground forces. The fighters were the defence of the all armed forces be it on the ground, air or sea. They deserve all the credit they get.


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## evangilder (Sep 29, 2004)

Goo point there, Plan. My comment on God and the fighter pilot was a joke, so no offence was intended, by the way. I have the utmost respect for fighter pilots, they have a tough and dangerous job.


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 29, 2004)

I don't think anyone is attempting to deride the glory fighter pilots get but merely stating that bomber pilots deserve more glory than they get. The pilots of the Dambusters and Ploesti raids (as examples) deserve every bit as much praise and glory as any fighter pilot.


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## plan_D (Sep 29, 2004)

They do but the funny thing is, you mentioned that "Fighter pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history"...the Dambusters pilots had a movie.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 29, 2004)

and a very good movie it is too...............


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 29, 2004)

The exception that proves the rule. 

But there have been several bomber movies: Twelve o'clock High, 30 Seconds Over Tokyo, The Memphis Belle (historically HORRIBLE, rivaling Pearl Harbor). But the basic point remains true, in general fighters are considered to be more glorious than bombers.


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## plan_D (Sep 29, 2004)

That's because they are. 

Fighters are like sweet sexy looking women. Bombers are like big fat ogre 'women'.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 29, 2004)

apart from the lancaster..............


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 29, 2004)

no...especially the lancaster


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 30, 2004)

What about the B-1B? That is a bomber and it looks awesome!


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

True but it's not World War 2.


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## Lightning Guy (Sep 30, 2004)

You British types would probably argue for the Mossie then. Personally I think the B-26 and A-26 looked very sexy in their own right.


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## johnny (Sep 30, 2004)

I'm british and i have to agree the B-26 is a far far better looking plane than the mossie.


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

The Mosquito was everything, not just a bomber. I was generally refering to the big four-engined bombers.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

The mosquito is a dull looking plane. The A-26 looks great though 8)


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

The Mosquito looks better.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

I fail to see how, Its like a nissan sunny, a perfectly ok piece of machinery but no redeeming features


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

The B-26 is like a slice of bread, fine does its job but a bit boring.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

Hey i love bread  Bread is extremely versatile


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

Exactly, but its still boring on its own.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

Granted.


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

Good..<mossie is still better>


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

Youre drunk, youre lying


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

Being drunk and lying are different things. I'm more likely to tell the truth when drunk e.g Woman-"Does this dress make my bum look big" Me-"No, your fat makes your bum look big"


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)




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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

The truth hurts. She slapped me so hard I actually felt it, even though I was drunk!


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

ive never been drunk myself, i dont really intend to either


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

You will be drunk...one day.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

At my age, sugar has a similar effect to alchohol


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

How would you know!?! You haven't been drunk. On top of that, no it doesn't. In addition to my last statement, don't lie. Finally, since when? 

Alcohol can have many different effects, and there are several stages. Not just a rush of running and jumping around waving your penis in the air then falling asleep. 
THE ONLY BAD THING WITH ALCOHOL is that when something really bad has happened the alcohol may, that's a big MAY, make it worse. However, on most occasions it makes it better!

BEER THE CAUSE OF AND SOLUTION TO ALL LIFES PROBLEMS

THERE'S NOTHING LIKE A DEPRESSANT TO CHASE THE BLUES AWAY

BEER, IT'S LIQUID BREAD AND GOOD FOR YOU.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

Im drinking fruit juice, How long before i get drunk?


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

Have I urinated in it?


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

If you did i cant remember


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

You can't expect me to remember.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

dont worry, i didnt


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

Good. I just got a phone call from this person...who claimed he was from Amsterdam and wanted to know some information...I was very rude...lots of swearing.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

Its ok, hes dutch  Im sure he understands


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

I felt it was appropriate to tell him to F%£* OFF...


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)

Bloody hell mate  You sure you didnt mistake "Amsterdam" for "Aunty Pam" or something?


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## lesofprimus (Oct 1, 2004)

I had the greatest time in Amsterdam... The people were all very cool... And the coffee shops... Well, we wont talk about them....


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## plan_D (Oct 1, 2004)

Yes we will because you had some dope, didn't you! I know...we all do. They put it in the coffee and cakes...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 1, 2004)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 1, 2004)

it's true CC..............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 1, 2004)

i know


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## plan_D (Oct 2, 2004)

So do I!!


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 2, 2004)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 2, 2004)

wow Plan_D knows something, didn't see that one coming.............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 2, 2004)

You wouldnt, your hair was probably in the way.


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## plan_D (Oct 2, 2004)

Hah. Lanc, lah-uh-ser-er. I know things...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 3, 2004)

> You wouldnt, your hair was probably in the way



good point, the hair is getting to be a bit of a problem..................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

Get it cut!


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

My hair is pretty long now too... It gets in my mouth at times...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

I have a theory...all plane enthusiasts have long hair. (I have gained this evidence from the fact that my hair, the lancs hair and now les' hair seems to be above-averagely long).


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## GermansRGeniuses (Oct 3, 2004)

I got my hair buzzed on Wednesday or Thursday...

Can't remember...

Anyway, it's maybe half an inch long...


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

Hair envy????


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## GermansRGeniuses (Oct 3, 2004)

Nope, I'd look like a retard or a stoner with long hair, I think...

Never had it past my 'brows, and that was when I was in Kindergarden...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

Ive never had it past my brows, it will go there if i straighten it though.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

My hair goes to my chin when pulled straight down...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

Mise goes just past the eye


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

I thought the eyebrows were ABOVE the eye??? Maybe u Brits are alittle more different than we originally thought....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

They are above the eye  when i pull my hair down it goes just past the eye


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

Glad we clarified that... Wouldnt want u posin as a long hair now would we???


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

Dunno what youre on about but ill just say no.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

LOL..... Just saying we wouldnt want anyone to mistake u for one of us Longhairs.....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

Is your hair long enough to put into a pony tail?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 3, 2004)

ohoh mine is 

and CC's hair aint that long...............


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

A short ponytail maybe... My hair is all 1 length...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 3, 2004)

mine's a bit longer....................


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

Heres a diff one...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 3, 2004)

yeah mine's thicker and longer, apart from at the front.............


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

My wife is bitchin at me now about how long it is...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

les i fear i will have nightmares now  My hair is long lanc, its mega thick. The curls make it look short.


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## JCS (Oct 3, 2004)

> I have a theory...all plane enthusiasts have long hair. (I have gained this evidence from the fact that my hair, the lancs hair and now les' hair seems to be above-averagely long).



You can add me to that list too, another 2 inches or so and mine will be down to my shoulders.


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## Maestro (Oct 3, 2004)

I had long hairs when I was 18-19. But I had to cut them when I entered the Security school. In that time, my hairs were down to my shoulders.


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## Hot Space (Oct 4, 2004)

I beat ya all. In the early 90's I had a Ponytail (Sad I know  ) and it went down to my butt. I'm 6 foot tall..............ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh   

Also had a goatie at the same time  

Hot Space


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 4, 2004)

wow and yet as it's you HS, i'm not all that suprised.....................


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## Hot Space (Oct 4, 2004)

Puts head down in shame   

Hot Space


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 4, 2004)

Hot Space said:


> I beat ya all. In the early 90's I had a Ponytail (Sad I know  ) and it went down to my butt. I'm 6 foot tall..............ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
> 
> Also had a goatie at the same time
> 
> Hot Space



Gordon Bennett 

I Strive for an Alice Band but my hair doesnt work well with them


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## evangilder (Oct 4, 2004)

Mine was long for almost 10 years. Here is what it looked like in it's "shorter" phase. It was down to my belt when I had it chopped off. It was too much of a pain and was causing headaches.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 5, 2004)

I love the 80's, zebra striped rocker shirt Evan.... And the stoned look on ur face....


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## evangilder (Oct 5, 2004)

Heheh yep, guilty on all counts in those days. Looking back now, what seemed cool in the old days looks pretty ridiculous now! Thanks god I never sported a mullet. I thought they looked goofy when they were in.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 5, 2004)

you do actually make a convincing, if slightly old, rock star in that pic............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 5, 2004)

Im attempting to post a pic of me but the pic is too damn big and when i shrink it the colours mess up


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## evangilder (Oct 5, 2004)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> you do actually make a convincing, if slightly old, rock star in that pic............



OLD?! Ouch, Lanc! I was about 28-29 when that pic was taken. At the time, I was actively in the music biz, semi-professionally. But the hours and the pay are terrible. Too much politics and insanity in the music biz these days.


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## plan_D (Oct 5, 2004)

That's what was so good about the Grunge scene, and now Audioslave.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 6, 2004)

> OLD?! Ouch, Lanc! I was about 28-29 when that pic was taken



ok sorry, you just looked older...........

you see i can get away with that because i'm 14, my pics still make me look young..............


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## evangilder (Oct 6, 2004)

No woories, Lanc.  Everyone told me I looked 10 years yonger when I cut it all off. So maybe it did age me a bit.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 8, 2004)

the facail expression aint doing you any favours either..........


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## evangilder (Oct 10, 2004)

The photographer told me to look like I was playing and "into it". I laughed at the thought as it was clear that I wasn't even plugged in. Nothing plugged into the guitar at all. Oh well, not very convincing, as you pointed out! I never claimed to be an actor! I have a face for radio.


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## Crazy (Oct 10, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> Im attempting to post a pic of me but the pic is too damn big and when i shrink it the colours mess up



You could send it my way, I'll have a go at shrinking it


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 10, 2004)

Will do


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 10, 2004)

i still think you could pas for a rock star..............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 10, 2004)

Although not from that pic, cos real rock stars plug their guitars in


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 10, 2004)

he could edit out the guitar and say he's an air guitarist??


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 10, 2004)

Or he can say it's an acoustic guitar that looks like an electric guitar and his hand is covering up the hole


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## lesofprimus (Oct 10, 2004)

LOL.....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 10, 2004)

the possibilities are endless............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 10, 2004)

Finally, the pic of me... 







If only I was the guy on the left 
Sorry about the hair, windy day


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## GermansRGeniuses (Oct 10, 2004)

Uhh....


You look like a girl a bit...

That's where the strangness comes from...




The hair doesn't help...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 10, 2004)

neither does the squinting  or the red cheeks  i dont look like a girl actually, i sound like one but that pic dont really do me much favours. My hair is shorter now


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## Crazy (Oct 10, 2004)

GermansRGeniuses said:


> Uhh....
> 
> 
> You look like a girl a bit...




You must have some WEIRD lookin' girls in California   


All in all, not a bad pic


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 10, 2004)

Thanks for backing me up crazy 

Its pretty good, its a shame the russian bloke looks like hes from vietnam or something and only joined the Russian navy to ged back the the US


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## lesofprimus (Oct 10, 2004)

Thats actually a pretty good pic, although the look in ur eye seems to suggest that ur about to take that dudes beret and run off with it....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 10, 2004)

I wish i did


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 11, 2004)

nice siggy crazy.........

and that was a good day................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 11, 2004)

Not really, I would rather have sat at home  I only went to see the flypast, didnt care about the ships 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 12, 2004)

your dad really enjoyed it, he was getting really into it and he loved HMS Ocean..............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 12, 2004)

I know, hes amazed by modern technology


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## lesofprimus (Oct 12, 2004)

Thats cool..... Atleast hes into come cool stuff....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 13, 2004)

He takes tool magazines to bed with him at night...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 13, 2004)

i bet your mum just loves that............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 13, 2004)

Hey, only i have permission to insult my mum/dad. You do not. Please stop, or I shall have to take moderative action.

NB: If moderative isnt a word, it is now.


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## MichaelHenley (Oct 13, 2004)

Good Call CC! Stop inslting terrorism at its souce. Moderate YOUR Lanc NOW!
(Not authorised by any government in particular...)


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 14, 2004)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 15, 2004)

how was that insulting??


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 15, 2004)

Dude, It just was


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 16, 2004)

no it wasn't............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 16, 2004)

You are way naive, even if you didnt mean it to be it was...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 17, 2004)

no it wasn't..............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 17, 2004)

Pretty much anything can be offensive to someone in someway.

Anyway, since when do you have a say in how i feel.

Me: "hey man that offends me"
the lanc: "no it doesnt"

You really are thick at times...


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## MichaelHenley (Oct 19, 2004)

Either that, or he uses the force to break your will...

*MWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!*
(Cue Star Wars Imperial march)


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 20, 2004)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 20, 2004)

i love that tune.................


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 20, 2004)

I cant think of it  If i heard it I'd probably recognise it though.


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## Maestro (Oct 20, 2004)

Enjoy !


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 20, 2004)

Hey thanks  Is this my birthday present?


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## Maestro (Oct 20, 2004)

You can take it that way... But to say the truth, I would have given it to you even if it wasn't your birthday... only because you (almost) asked for it and that I had it on my computer.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 20, 2004)

Ah right ok


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## MichaelHenley (Oct 21, 2004)

I love it! I think it radiates power (ooh!) and Tyranny (aah!) (that was awe "ahh!" not scared "AAAHHHH!", wor those who didn't understand )


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## NightHawk (Oct 22, 2004)

what was thet 4\5\6 pages ago ? thet you showed pictures of your self,
well i dont have a picture of my self on my computer.and even if i had i would never show it.


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## NightHawk (Oct 22, 2004)

damn cant upload ride of the valkyries.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 22, 2004)

nice pic NH...............


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 23, 2004)

NightHawk said:


> damn cant upload ride of the valkyries.



Sweet tune


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## NightHawk (Oct 24, 2004)

i had thet pic for some time now, but i forgot about it.


ride of the valkyries is vrey good,to bad i cant upload so yo ucould enjoy it.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 24, 2004)

I have it on my pc anyway.


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## Concorde247 (Mar 20, 2005)

It really does depend on where the bullet hits. there was a reported case of either a spitfire or hurricane landing on the dunkirk beaches after d-day when it recieved ONE bullet hit in the glycol header tank which was situated just behind the prop. there were other cases of ME109s being downed with a hit in the fuel tank and as the pilot is virtually sitting on the tank in those machines i wouldnt fancied that!!! - too much fuel for the cigarette lighter old chap!!


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