# Horten



## R-2800 (Jan 18, 2007)

I think this photo is a Horton but im not sure. I don't think it can be anything else. I found it on a VW site go figure ! not really deserving of it's on thread, but I threw it on here anyway


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## Gnomey (Jan 18, 2007)

Yeah that is a Horton Ho-229. Think it is in storage at one of the American museums (think there was a video of it posted here somewhere).


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 18, 2007)

Yeap that is the Ho-229.


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## twoeagles (Jan 18, 2007)

Stored at National Air and Space Museum Paul Garber facility in Silver Springs,
Maryland. It has, however, been moved to a better climate controlled building. It's significance isn't lost on the museum - just so many airplanes
but only so much money and manpower.


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## R-2800 (Jan 18, 2007)

That is what I thought they should at least move it somewhere it won't rust so bad


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 19, 2007)

The aircraft is mostly made of wood.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 19, 2007)

I do think they need to fix her up and put her on display. She is a once in a lifetime aircraft to see.


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 19, 2007)

Is *Horten* actually.


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## R-2800 (Jan 19, 2007)

> Is Horten actually



sorry thanks for telling me


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## ChrisMAg2 (Jan 20, 2007)

To be very precise:
It's *the* Horten Ho IX V-3/ Gotha Go 229 A


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 20, 2007)

well if you're gonna be a pedant and the "the" is that important it should be *The* but i doubt it's that important how many aircraft have "The" in the name!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 20, 2007)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 20, 2007)

i really can't think of any!


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## Henk (Jan 20, 2007)

It was first the Horten Ho IX V-3 and then the Horten 229 and it were to be called the Gotha 229 one it became official and start full scale production. So yes all of them are in some way correct.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 21, 2007)

isn't everyone glad they spent their saturday night debating this


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## Henk (Jan 21, 2007)

You wont understand the joy I got out of it Lanc.


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## HealzDevo (Jan 21, 2007)

Any more photos of Horton Ho-229s and Go-229s to post in this thread?


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## Henk (Jan 22, 2007)

Do you want to post some pictures of the Ho-229 or do you want some of us to post some mat?


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 22, 2007)

> Any more photos of Horton Ho-229s




Again that name ? somebody did not understand plain english.


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## Henk (Jan 22, 2007)

Ag CB, in at the one ear and out the other, I must say I have done it as well.


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 22, 2007)

The Royal Aeronautical Society had troubles too, I wonder whats is wrong with Reimar surname.


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## Henk (Jan 23, 2007)

Yup, but in most of my stuff it is spelled correctly.

HealzDevo check this out mate.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aircraft-requests/horton-brothers-flying-wings-3618.html

You will find many pic's there mate.


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## HealzDevo (Jan 23, 2007)

Thanks, I just find them an interesting subject. Interestly they are talking about tailless airliners as more fuel efficient, although aren't they harder to control and fly in an engine-out situation or during a systems failure?


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## Henk (Jan 27, 2007)

No, if they lose power from the engines they can glide to earth better than a normal aircraft. The Horten Brothers were great when it came to building flying wings. The crash of the Ho-229 V2 prototype are still a mystery if you take why the pilot did not just glide the aircraft to earth, they think he passed out. I think it would be great if they could build a airliner that is a all wing aircraft.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 28, 2007)

No actually flying wing aircraft are more difficult to fly. That is why they were not successful until the advent of Fly By Wire technology. There is a thread here were we discussed it all.


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## HealzDevo (Jan 28, 2007)

It is actually known by both names. While the Horton Brothers may have invented it. Gotha was the company that actually produced it. That is why I put both names. I will try and troll through what I have but if anyone else has any pictures they would like to post...


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## Denniss (Jan 29, 2007)

HealzDevo said:


> It is actually known by both names. While the Horton Brothers may have invented it. Gotha was the company that actually produced it.



In no way this aircraft woulf have received a Gotha designation, Gotha was only the manufacturer (contractor, license built). This aircraft would have received the constructors designation Ho 229 (as seen on Kurt Tank's Focke-Wulf Fw 190 derivative Ta 152 or the Hütter project of the He 219).


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 30, 2007)

HealzDevo he is right. When they call it the Go-229 it is wrong, based off of the RLM nomenclature designations.


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## Henk (Jan 30, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> No actually flying wing aircraft are more difficult to fly. That is why they were not successful until the advent of Fly By Wire technology. There is a thread here were we discussed it all.



Adler I am not fighting you here I just go on what I know and have read. As far as I read the Ho-229 were not difficult to handle and did actually great if you take that it is a flying wing. Do you know something I do not? Adler do maybe know where I can find the thread about the fly-by wire?

I must say I as well do not know if they would have changed the name to Gotha 229, but that is what I have read and it said that it would have happend after it reached production, but as far as I know the Gotha company came in to help the Horten brothers produce the aircraft or the contract to produce the aircraft were given to Gotha. I have also read that the Gotha guys corrected some design flaws in the Ho-229, but I think that is bull. 

I will always call it Horten Ho-229 not just in honour of the designers but because that is what the RLM documents said.

HealzDevo mate you spell it Horten and not Horton, do not worry I have done it myself in the past.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 30, 2007)

Henk said:


> Adler I am not fighting you here I just go on what I know and have read. As far as I read the Ho-229 were not difficult to handle and did actually great if you take that it is a flying wing. Do you know something I do not?



Dont worry, we are all learning here.

Do to its small size it would have been easier than anything like the B-2 or whatever, but once you took the power away from the Ho-229 such as in loss of engines than it would have become more difficult to fly the aircraft. That has allways been a problem with flying wing aircraft.



Henk said:


> Adler do maybe know where I can find the thread about the fly-by wire?



I did just a quick search and here is the one that I found for you. 

Aircraft flight control systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Henk said:


> I must say I as well do not know if they would have changed the name to Gotha 229, but that is what I have read and it said that it would have happend after it reached production, but as far as I know the Gotha company came in to help the Horten brothers produce the aircraft or the contract to produce the aircraft were given to Gotha. I have also read that the Gotha guys corrected some design flaws in the Ho-229, but I think that is bull.



The Horton brothers designed the aircraft but did not have there own company in that sense to build the aircraft so the RLM gave the contract to someone to build it. It could have been Arado or Messerschmitt for all we care. The contract was given to Gotha to build but the aircraft was still Hortons design. Therefore she would have recieved the name Ho-229, not Go-229 just like the Focke-Wulf Ta-152. It is given the Ta for Tank who was the designer.


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## Henk (Jan 30, 2007)

Thanks Adler.

Yes, I agree, even if you look at the NASM where they have the story about the Ho-229 they also call it the Horten 229 and they proof their stuff throught the interviews the museum did with the Horten brothers years ago that they have on caset tape. I wish I could get the transcrips of those interviews.


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## AV8 (May 18, 2007)

THE! or yes ...


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## Henk (May 19, 2007)

What?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 19, 2007)

What the hell was that for?


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## Henk (May 19, 2007)

I am just as blind struck as you Adler.


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## johnbr (Aug 31, 2017)

Two complete outer wings for the Ho-229 v-3 were discovered at the Firma Orlapp Ffriedrichroda.The fuel was carried completely in its outer wings.Seen inside the wings at its wing root are silver objects one of several fuel tanks.


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## johnbr (Aug 31, 2017)




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## mikewint (Aug 31, 2017)




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## johnbr (Aug 31, 2017)




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## johnbr (Aug 31, 2017)




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## Wurger (Aug 31, 2017)




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## Old Wizard (Aug 31, 2017)




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## johnbr (Oct 2, 2017)

View attachment 467615
Love this plane.


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## Wurger (Oct 2, 2017)




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## Old Wizard (Oct 2, 2017)




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## Tony Kambic (Oct 4, 2017)

The Horten Ho229 is now on the display floor at NASM Udvar-Hazy Museum. The aircraft does not have the wings on, but they are on a cradle next to the main fuselage. The aircraft has been 'preserved' to a state so corrosion and deterioration have been suspended. It has been placed next to the He219, itself apart, with fuselage, wing, and engines separate, but all viewable.

Tony


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 4, 2017)

Tony Kambic said:


> The Horten Ho229 is now on the display floor at NASM Udvar-Hazy Museum. The aircraft does not have the wings on, but they are on a cradle next to the main fuselage. The aircraft has been 'preserved' to a state so corrosion and deterioration have been suspended. It has been placed next to the He219, itself apart, with fuselage, wing, and engines separate, but all viewable.
> 
> Tony



It is not next to the He 219, unless they just very recently moved it there. I was just there a few months back, and it was still in the restoration bay.

Next to the He 219 however is the wooden Horton H.III glider without wings, not the Horton 229.

Below are pics I took.


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## Tony Kambic (Oct 4, 2017)

Dear Der Crew Chief,

I've been a volunteer at Udvar-Hazy since it opened and am there multiple times a week. I am attaching a cell phone image and you can see the location, with the tip of He219 wing in the foreground. This was last week when they had just moved it to the spot. 

I've had the opportunities to work in the restoration area and have seen and worked on some rare artifacts.

Tony

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 4, 2017)

Tony Kambic said:


> Dear Der Crew Chief,
> 
> I've been a volunteer at Udvar-Hazy since it opened and am there multiple times a week. I am attaching a cell phone image and you can see the location, with the tip of He219 wing in the foreground. This was last week when they had just moved it to the spot.
> 
> ...



Thank you, I stand corrected. I am glad they have it out on the floor now. Gives me another reason to get back out there to the museum.

I am also jealous that you get to help with the restorations. I would love to get involved with that.

Are the wings put on the 219 now as well?


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## johnbr (Oct 4, 2017)



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## Wurger (Oct 5, 2017)




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## Wayne Little (Oct 5, 2017)

great pics.


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## Tony Kambic (Oct 5, 2017)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Thank you, I stand corrected. I am glad they have it out on the floor now. Gives me another reason to get back out there to the museum.
> 
> I am also jealous that you get to help with the restorations. I would love to get involved with that.
> 
> Are the wings put on the 219 now as well?


 
The wings are not on the He219 yet. Projects get moved around and I don't know a timeline on that. Another project for the He219 is re-creating a set of radar dipoles for the He219.

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## Old Wizard (Oct 5, 2017)




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## Tony Kambic (Oct 6, 2017)

Here are 3 more images of the Ho229 on the floor of Udvar-Hazy. I was surprised to learn that the nose gear is a tail wheel assembly of an He177, and the main gear are modified components of the Bf109.

Tony


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## Wurger (Oct 6, 2017)




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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 6, 2017)

Looks like I need to get to DC again...


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## buffnut453 (Oct 6, 2017)

Great to see the Horten out of the restoration room. Is the intent to fix the wings back on this beautiful bird? I certainly hope so.


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## johnbr (Oct 18, 2017)

Ho-



5


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## johnbr (Oct 18, 2017)




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## Wurger (Oct 18, 2017)




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## johnbr (Oct 19, 2017)




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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2017)




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## johnbr (Oct 19, 2017)




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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2017)




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## johnbr (Oct 19, 2017)

Ho-



5

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## Wurger (Oct 19, 2017)




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## Gnomey (Oct 19, 2017)

Good shots!


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## johnbr (Jun 6, 2018)

Ho-9 v-2 bmw engine and spar

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## Gnomey (Jun 16, 2018)

Cool shots!


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## johnbr (Jun 24, 2018)

*Horten H III f*







*Dimensions*

Wingspan 20 m (66 ft)
Center Section Length 5 m (16.4 ft)
Height 1.6 m (5.4 ft)
Weight Empty 250 kg (550 lb)
Weight Flying 360 kg (792 lb)
Maximum Speed 210 km/h (130 mph)
Best Glide Speed 63 km/h (39 mph)

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## johnbr (Jun 24, 2018)



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## Wurger (Jun 24, 2018)




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## johnbr (Jun 26, 2018)

*Horten H VI V2*







December 1940. The H IV became the most successful all-wing aircraft that Horten developed and it encouraged him to explore further the potential of high aspect ratio (AR) wing design. He completed the first Horten VI four years later but this sailplane was experimental and not intended for series production so Reimar designated it 'vee-number-one' to indicate its prototype status.
Horten built two examples in the summer of 1944. The Horten VI used a complex flight control system that was similar to the Horten IV and Horten equipped it with a semi-prone position for the pilot. Flight tests uncovered a tendency for the wingtips to flutter at about 128 km/h (80 mph). 
*Materials*
Steel tubing center section covered with plywood and aluminum, wooden wings covered plywood and cotton fabric.
*Dimensions*

Wing Span: 24.3 m (79 ft 7 in)
Center Section Length: 2.5 m (8 ft 3 in)
Height: 1 m (3.3 ft)
Weights, Empty: 330 kg (726 lb)
Gross: 410 kg (902 lb)
Maximum Speed: 200 kmh (124 mph)
Best Glide Speed: 84 kmh (52 mph)

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## Wurger (Jun 26, 2018)




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## johnbr (Sep 21, 2018)

Ho-9 v-1 may 19
View attachment 51023



45


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## johnbr (Jan 8, 2019)



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## johnbr (Jan 8, 2019)

Report on the Ho-229 From me


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## johnbr (Jan 8, 2019)



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## Crimea_River (Jan 8, 2019)

Source?


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## GrauGeist (Jan 8, 2019)

Post #79 is the Ho.VII, powered by two Argus As-10 engines.

Only one built in 1943, it was captured in Oranienburg March 1945.

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## stona (Jan 8, 2019)

Yes, the H VII V-1.

Two 236 hp Argus As10SC engines and a crew of two.

I always found the odd double 'nose' wheels strange, but apparently they took more than half the aircraft's weight.

Cheers

Steve


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## Gnomey (Jan 8, 2019)

Good shots!


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## nuuumannn (Jan 8, 2019)

Can someone change the thread title to correct the spelling, so it doesn't read like a Dr Seuss book, please? 

A Horten designed glider, the Urubu:




Urubu 

From here: Museo Nacional Aeronautica

After the war, Reimar Horten emigrated to Argentina and built some of the flying wings he first proposed to the Nazis. Take a look at this page, it has a few errors, but also has fabulous photos of an aircraft he had built and had proposed to the British after the war, who were less than interested, which prompted his turning to Argentina. The aircraft was nicknamed the "Naranjero"; the author of the piece has chosen to call it the Orangeman, naranja being orange in Spanish, but the name Naranjero was applied to the aircraft because the aircraft was used to carry oranges!

Reimar Horten In Argentina - Machtres Fighters

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## Graeme (Jan 9, 2019)

Reading from Wiki the brothers went their separate ways after the war. Was their a rift between them?
Thread drift - but I read where Walter Horten may have had some input into the unusual Putzer SR.57 Bussard in West Germany. He definitely flew it. Engine in the nose - 6 metre shaft to the pusher prop....

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## Gnomey (Jan 19, 2019)

Nice shots!


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## johnbr (Jan 28, 2019)

Horten v

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## johnbr (Jan 28, 2019)



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## johnbr (Jan 28, 2019)

ho-2

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## johnbr (Jan 28, 2019)

ho-5

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## johnbr (Feb 16, 2019)



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## johnbr (Aug 28, 2019)



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## Dean Chapman (Jan 25, 2021)

gentlemen, if I remember correctly The Jet Powered Horten 229 ( flying wing ) first flew December 1944 .. January 1945 it flew again but unfortunately crashed because the jet engines quit .. the pilot was as you know was killed .. I was at a military reunion more than ten years ago with my dad in Washington and went to Silver Springs Maryland. I happened to be wearing a Harley Davidson T shirt at the time, the shop foreman noticed it and commented that he used to race Harleys. I asked to see the Horten in storage and he told a docent to take me to the building it was stored in. there it was sitting on three wheels and the wings were off leaning against the wall next to it. I was shocked .. I walked around it and I can honestly say I touched the tail, sounds silly I know but I will never have another chance. walking back to the main building the docent asked me who I was. the docent also commented that he thought the Horten was a glider, I replied "no, it was powered by jet engines". at the military reunion there was a nice dinner, the man sitting next to me was wearing a civilian suit and looked normal, I never saw him before .. I was sitting next to Retired General Cardenas the highest ranking Hispanic American of all time. nice man .. my dad was sitting across the table from me and asked me after the dinner if I knew who the man was, my dad thought the situation was humerous, at least I behaved myself. General Cardenas flew the Northrop prototype Wings .. If I had only know I would have had soo many questions .. he was a nice man

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## Capt. Vick (Jan 25, 2021)

Damn!


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## Gnomey (Jan 27, 2021)

Nice shots!


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