# Military Aircraft that have been hard to replace



## davparlr (Apr 4, 2018)

I am amazed at how long some aircraft have maintained operational usage as compared to the amount of time since the first powered flight occurred, 1903. I have compiled a list of aircraft that are still in active service of their prime user. This does not include secondary users who still may be keeping older planes because they cannot afford new ones. Nor does it include aircraft still listed in prime service that support base ops. Who knows, some bases may still fly T-33s! This list will be oldest first, some comment, and percentage of operational, introduction, time flown compared to the 1903 flight. As a general rule, all of these aircraft are incredible and need to be honored.

1 Of course number one is the B-52 Stratofortress

· First flight April 1952
· Introduction February 1955
· Percentage of time verses Wright Flyer (2018-introduction)/2018-1903(116)) 54%

Originally designed for the deep penetration mission during the cold war, the B-52 became obsolete in the 70s for this mission due to effective defense against non-stealth airborne threats. However, the B-52 continues to be effective in low to non-threat environment conventional war and as a standoff cruise missile launch platform. It has been operational over half the time flight has been viable.

2 Tu 95

· First Flight Nov 1952
· Introduction 1956
· 53%

The Russian Tu 95 was designed roughly the same time, with the same mission, as the B-52. I believe it uses the same fuselage as the Tu 4 (B-29). With four 14,800 hp turboprop engines and swept wings, it is the world’s fastest turboprop plane. It is quite an impressive design. It is about half the size of the B-52, with half the lifting power. It is also slower with a lower ceiling. It is still used by Russia for reconnaissance and as a standoff cruise missile launch platform.

3 C-130 Hercules 

· First Flight August 1954
· Introduction 1956
· 53%

The mighty Hercules. Not much to say about this plane. This flying truck has been indispensable in all wars fought since 1956. It is the only aircraft here that has been continually manufactured, a remarkable feat in aerospace. As far as I know, the only vehicle that has been manufactured in the same configuration for a longer period of time is the Jeep (maybe the Porsche 356/911, but those are different models).

4 KC-135

· First Flight August 1956
· Introduction June 1957
· 53%

Another reliable truck, tanker in this case, whose mission and performance has not changed significantly enough to require a replacement until recently.

5 U-2

· First Flight August 1955
· Introduction 1957
· 53%

This unique aircraft has a mission and performance stability such that there has been no need to replace it.

6 T-38 Talon

· First Flight March 1959
· Introduction March 1961
· 49%

The White Rocket, as it was once called. While I am old also, this is only one on the list that I have had the pleasure and honor to fly. While there have been several attempts to replace it, my feeling is, nobody really wants to do that, but, the airframes are wearing out. Over 60,000 pilots have trained in the T-38.

7 P-3 Orion

· First Flight November 1959
· Introduction August 1962
· 48%

A crucial cold war warrior flying out of places like the Azores and Iceland, the P-3, flying lazy circles in the sky, still probes the deep for Ivan’s subs. It still soldiers on but is being replaced.

Others??

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## buffnut453 (Apr 4, 2018)

How about the dear old EE/Martin Canberra/B-57? First flew in 1949 and still soldiering on with NASA for high-altitude research (Why Nasa still flies an old British bomber design).

Haven't bothered to work out the percentages but still a significant, and hard-to-replace aircraft IMHO.

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## Zipper730 (Apr 4, 2018)

The B-52 basically has remained in service for several reasons

The cost of replacing it was steep

The B-70 was remarkable in performance, but basically was designed only to carry nuclear (and CBW) weapons at first, it's ballistic missile capability was doubtful (it wasn't compatible with the Hound Dog), and it's cost was pathological (this was almost certainly exacerbated by the fact that the USAF also funded a nuclear-powered bomber that it didn't need; the USN was proposing a nuclear powered P6M, as well as a nuclear powered supersonic and conventional design).
The B-1A had good high altitude performance, excellent low-altitude performance, and carried a monstrous payload (75,000 internally, 20,000-40,000 externally). Unfortunately, it was nuclear only at first, and was excessively costly. The B-1B included conventional ordinance, similar low-altitude performance, but degraded high speed performance (still quite impressive)
ICBMs are nuclear-only, and non-recallable.

The B-52 could carry things the B-1 could not: Though I guess nobody ever tried to strap a X-15 onto the B-1's back (there was a proposal for the XB-70), the B-52 could hang the X-15, as well as a pair of D-21 drones under it's wings.
The U-2 was actually obsolete for some time, it's just that

The A-12 was never allowed to overfly the USSR because of the fact that we agreed to abstain from such practices; the same applied for the SR-71
For low intensity conflicts, they can still be used as a supplement to satellites and drones
For high intensity conflicts, the A-12/SR-71 was useful for awhile, and modern day might still be useful to an extent. We'd probably focus on satellites and drones.


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## pbehn (Apr 4, 2018)

Dh Dragon Rapide, made of plywood, and first flew in 1934, only 724 made with a couple still flying, I have seen more than 1% of production.


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## Crimea_River (Apr 4, 2018)

The entire fleet of the RCAF since the 60s.

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## Graeme (Apr 4, 2018)

Hi Davparir.



davparlr said:


> Percentage of time verses Wright Flyer (2018-introduction)/2018-1903(116)) 54%



I'm lousy at math but I was thinking if there was any way of beating that B-52 percentage figure using your formula - which I've dubbed the Wright Factor - based on total years in service and the retirement year rather than our current year. Should the formula still work?
I read recently the Spanish used the He-114 floatplane up until 1960. Quick calculation gave me a Wright Factor of 43% - not good enough. I need to find a service starting closer to the Wright's flight I thought.
So then I went back further and read the Avro 504 was utilised by the RAF (although it was retired for a number of years) in 1940 towing wooden gliders for radar practise. So pretending we're on the Internet in 1940 on a forum like this - that's a Wright Factor of 78%

But that makes no sense - cause the B-52 has been in service way longer than the Avro's 26 year period.

Where am I going wrong with this?


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## buffnut453 (Apr 4, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Hi Davparir.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



'Cos in 1940, the 504's service was a huge proportion of the period of manned flight. Stretch the time horizon out to 2018 and the 504's contribution is MUCH smaller.

When was the last Tiger Moth in service use for training? That's got to be a contender.


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## Graeme (Apr 4, 2018)

Thanks Mark! 



buffnut453 said:


> When was the last Tiger Moth in service use for training? That's got to be a contender.



See, that's my thought process as well - but no. We ditched ours in '45 - selling off 525 of them. Based on first flight that'd be around 14 years in_ military_ service for the Tiger.
Does Kim Jong-un still use the An-2?
That'd be around 70 years service for the Colt.

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## buffnut453 (Apr 4, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Thanks Mark!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The RAF may have got rid of the Tiggie in 1945 but what about other air forces worldwide? I'm sure other forces kept them flying long after 1945...but perhaps they were soon replaced by more modern types?


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## Graeme (Apr 4, 2018)

Looking at an old 1955 encyclopedia on "current" military aircraft in service - no mention of nations using the Tiger. 
Did find out the RNZAF operated Bristol Fighters up to 1938.


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 4, 2018)

An-2 was also used to attack American Forces in Laos ... with rockets ... covering fire for special forces assaulting the massif where the US base was established. The base, Lima 85, provided radar bombing through overcast to F-105 Thuds bombing Hanoi.
(CIA painting of the unprecedented double shoot-down)


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## vikingBerserker (Apr 4, 2018)

C-47, the 6th Special Operations Squadron flew it until 2008. That would be since 1941, giving it 67 year service.


6th Special Operations Squadron > Air Force Special Operations Command > Display


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## swampyankee (Apr 5, 2018)

The DC-3 is


vikingBerserker said:


> C-47, the 6th Special Operations Squadron flew it until 2008. That would be since 1941, giving it 67 year service.
> 
> 
> 6th Special Operations Squadron > Air Force Special Operations Command > Display



Since the C-47 was just a DC-3 with a different paint job, its civilian service started five years earlier. I think C-47s were in non-US military service a few years after leaving US service. I think one of the South American countries’ air forces operated them to 2012.

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## Barrett (Apr 5, 2018)

Huey (first flight 56) and Chinook (FF 61).


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## vikingBerserker (Apr 5, 2018)

The C-47s were not just a DC-3 with a paint job, there were a few modifications:

"A reinforced fuselage floor and the addition of a large cargo door were the only major modifications. Other changes included the fitting of cargo hooks beneath the center wing section and the removal of the tail cone to mount a hook for towing gliders."

Boeing: Historical Snapshot: C-47 Skytrain military transport

-----------------------

In regards to the B-52, I do find it amazing that a plane that first flew within 7 years of the end of WW2 is still on the front lines.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 5, 2018)

Barrett said:


> Huey (first flight 56) and Chinook (FF 61).



While I consider the Huey the greatest helicopter ever built, I have to disagree that it was hard to replace. It was replaced by the Blackhawk which is a much more capable and better aircraft. It replaced the Huey just fine.

At least in US military service. Elseware in the world it is still in service.

As for the Chinook. It has not been replaced. Still in service.


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## davparlr (Apr 5, 2018)

I did say that the aircraft has to be still in service with their prime user. I am not sure the Canberra/B-57 is still in use by the RAF or USAF nor do I think that the AN-2 is in active service in Russia, but I could be wrong. I also meant to omit odd small use of the aircraft. As I said, there may be some General that keeps a spit polished T-33 just to keep flight status, this would include special ops. I don't think the C-47 is currently in the USAF inventory. The CH-47 Chinook should be included. It is basically a helicopter version of the C-130 and should be honored as such. As for the Huey, I agree with Alder. The UH-1 Iroquois, more famously known as the Huey, has its own special place in the history of air power.


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## GreenKnight121 (Apr 5, 2018)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> While I consider the Huey the greatest helicopter ever built, I have to disagree that it was hard to replace. It was replaced by the Blackhawk which is a much more capable and better aircraft. It replaced the Huey just fine.
> 
> At least in US military service.



Ummm - the UH-1Y Venom is an improved UH-1N Huey*, and is currently in production for the USMC, which never went to the H-60 Blackhawk/Seahawk.

So the Huey is still in frontline US service, and will be for decades!


* The test aircraft were conversions, and the original program called for 100 UH-1Ns to be converted to UH-1Ys - however, in 2005 the program was modified to increase the number to 160, and for all of those to be new-builds!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 5, 2018)

GreenKnight121 said:


> Ummm - the UH-1Y Venom is an improved UH-1N Huey*, and is currently in production for the USMC, which never went to the H-60 Blackhawk/Seahawk.
> 
> So the Huey is still in frontline US service, and will be for decades!
> 
> ...



Yeah I forgot about the Yankee model. Point still remains, a much more capable aircraft is available to replace it if the USMC chose to. It would not be hard to replace. 

The largest user of the Huey, the US Army already replaced the Huey...

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## soulezoo (Apr 6, 2018)

Going off the simple meaning of the thread title, regardless of service length, I really think the A-10 is an aircraft really hard to replace. Yes, the F-16 has been used and the F-35 slated to perform the roles of the A-10, but the truth is neither can really replace nor exactly perform the job the A-10 is best at and was specifically designed for. In Vietnam where F-4's and Thuds reigned supreme, the guys on the ground sure felt better when a Skyraider lurked overhead. Same thing in my mind. I don't think we'll ever see another aircraft quite like the A-10.

Anyway, just my humble opinion.

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## michaelmaltby (Apr 6, 2018)

"... I don't think we'll ever see another aircraft quite like the A-10."
I share your admiration but the battlefield will be the test of your proposition.


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## swampyankee (Apr 6, 2018)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Yeah I forgot about the Yankee model. Point still remains, a much more capable aircraft is available to replace it if the USMC chose to. It would not be hard to replace.
> 
> The largest user of the Huey, the US Army already replaced the Huey...



I may be slightly prejudiced here — I did aero at Sikorsky — but the Blackhawk is only faster, more crashworthy, longer ranged, quieter, and with a better payload than the Huey. The UTTAS program was probably the best aircraft procurement program during the Cold War; Boeing’s entry was also a great ‘copter.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 6, 2018)

swampyankee said:


> I may be slightly prejudiced here — I did aero at Sikorsky — but the Blackhawk is only faster, more crashworthy, longer ranged, quieter, and with a better payload than the Huey. The UTTAS program was probably the best aircraft procurement program during the Cold War; Boeing’s entry was also a great ‘copter.



I’m biased as well. I crewed the Blackhawk for 6 years. It is an amazing helicopter.


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## Glider (Apr 6, 2018)

I don't think that anyone has mentioned the F15. The premier fighter from the mid 70's until approx. 2012 when it started to be replaced. Look at it another way, its like dominating the air war over the entire WW2 and Korea in a Sopwith Camel.

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## vikingBerserker (Apr 6, 2018)

Actually the A-10 i a good example. They keep trying to retire it but have to change their minds.


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