# Argentine Navy and Army Images:



## CharlesBronson (Nov 9, 2005)

I dont have the intention to start a new thread with this particular subject, but I have do so to no derail another topics.

Anyway let start with the pics.

Here some images of combines exercises between the US and argentine Navy.

U.S deckcrew giving landing instruction to a Argentine Navy SH-3.












Dassault Super Etendar 3-A-211 making "touch and go" in thn CVN-76.






Also the SUE 3-A-213 had the chance of check the brand new deck of the Ronald Reagan.







S-2T ( Grumman Tracker completelely refurbished by IAI industries) 







The five blade turboprops send it to the sky again.


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## Gnomey (Nov 10, 2005)

Nice pics Charles.


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## evangilder (Nov 10, 2005)

Very nice!


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## trackend (Nov 10, 2005)

Super shots there CB


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 10, 2005)

Very cool - like the turbo tracker. A company called Enheat from Halifax (NS home town) was attempting to do a similar mod for the CAF - don't know how successful they were.


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## CharlesBronson (Nov 10, 2005)

I glad you like it boys.

Here some more:

Close up of the S-2T serial 2-AS-21






Eurocopter AS555SN Fennec serial 3-H-134 







P-3C Orion overflying a fishing boat.






Fokker F-28 Mk.3000C "Fellowship" serial 5-T-20


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 10, 2005)

Very Cool! Love the Twin Star!


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## evangilder (Nov 10, 2005)

Funny, I thought you would love the P-3 shot, Joe.


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## Gnomey (Nov 10, 2005)

Nice shots Charles. So did I Eric, sometimes people surprise you.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 10, 2005)

evangilder said:


> Funny, I thought you would love the P-3 shot, Joe.



Oh yea, that as well! You don't see too many Twinstars!


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## evangilder (Nov 10, 2005)

True that!


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## CharlesBronson (Nov 10, 2005)

Super Etendar walkaround.

Pod Vinten 360:


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## Gnomey (Nov 10, 2005)

Nice pics Charles!


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 11, 2005)

Excellent pics, Charles. Very cool indeed. 



FLYBOYJ said:


> Very cool - like the turbo tracker. A company called Enheat from Halifax (NS home town) was attempting to do a similar mod for the CAF - don't know how successful they were.


The upgrade itself was probably successful enough, but as far as I can remember the Trackers were retired still fitted with the old piston engines.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 11, 2005)

I think the CAF backed away from it and just decided to retire the Tracker.


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## CharlesBronson (Nov 11, 2005)

The argentine Trackers were intensively rebuild in the IAI factory Israel, with new wing, engines, radar, sonar and computer sistem, almost emerged like new planes.


----------------

Some pics of a nasty incident wich hapen in december 2004:



> Argentine warship fires on Brazil ship, wounding 5 in war games accident
> 
> RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil (AP) - An Argentine warship mistakenly fired on a Brazilian frigate during joint naval exercises in the Atlantic Ocean, injuring five people, officials said Tuesday.
> 
> ...




The argentine ship was the ARA Sarandi D-13, (MEKO 360) it was performing some night shooting with the double 40 mm fast fire Bofors guns, for some unknown reason the brasilian F-49 Rademaker ( former HMS Battleaxe) crossed his line of fire and the gun control locked on it.

As result the carioca ship was blasted by the 40mm gunfire, luckily enough nobody was seriusly hurt.

























Doesn't look nice does it? They practically disabled the ship. The guidance radar (for SeaWolf) seems to be completely wasted, so is the SeaWolf launcher...

It seems that the german and british ships still dont get alone.


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## Gnomey (Nov 11, 2005)

No it doesn't look nice, thankfully no one was seriously injured or killed.


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## CharlesBronson (Nov 11, 2005)

> thankfully no one was seriously injured or killed.



Awesome Luck.  

Here is the argentine ship involved laid down in the Blomh Voss shipyard in late 1984, by the way MEKO means Modular Entwicklung Konstruction = Modular replacement contruction.


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## CharlesBronson (Nov 13, 2005)

Pictures of combined exercises with Brasil, in more friendly terms than the last one.

Brazilian carrier A-12 Sao Paulo , with Argentine and Brasilian planes onboard.






Tracker












Sue.






....in the air, check the thick steel wire that is released, caracteristic of the french catapult sistem.







Argentine supply ship ARA Patagonia refueling the Carrier, since both ships are french designs the interoperability is total.












Brazilian A-4KU.


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## Gnomey (Nov 13, 2005)

Nice pics Charles.


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## Glider (Nov 13, 2005)

Excellent pics. Re the strop, on the old Ark Royal we used what looks like the same system but had a method to catch the strop. Originally the Ark used to lose the stop on every lauch, the simple reason for the change was that if you were going on long deployments of some months, you ran out of strops.


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 13, 2005)

Yes, good pics there.


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## CharlesBronson (Nov 16, 2005)

Glider said:


> Excellent pics. Re the strop, on the old Ark Royal we used what looks like the same system but had a method to catch the strop. Originally the Ark used to lose the stop on every lauch, the simple reason for the change was that if you were going on long deployments of some months, you ran out of strops.




Very true.... I think that is no longer used in the Rafale Ms launched from the Charles de Gaulle carrier.


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## evangilder (Nov 16, 2005)

That's a cool shot, CB!


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## Gnomey (Nov 17, 2005)

Nice shot Charles!


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## CharlesBronson (Nov 17, 2005)

Yea, it does.... is not very usual to see a Us navy aircraft refueling a non-USA fighter. 8) 

------------

Argentine Type 42:

Two of the ships were adquired in the late 70s/early 80s

Some of the components had to be replace and rebuild because the equipment embargo applied post 1982. For example the 114 mm ammo for the main gun had to be manufactured in the Goverment arsenals.

One of the the ARA Hercules was refurbished and converted in a new role, now it is denominated "Fast armed transport vessel" it retain most of the radar and barrel armamente but the rear missiles were deleted and the Hangar was enlarged to acomodate 4 helicopters and facilities for marines and commandos.








Vickers Mk-8 114 mm ( 4.5 inches)






Sea Dart:






In operation deploying some zodiacs.


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## Gnomey (Nov 17, 2005)

Nice pics Charles.


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## CharlesBronson (Dec 14, 2005)

Video of ground and take off operations in Dassault Super Etendar.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 14, 2005)

Nice clip charlie! Notice the lead pilot giving signals to his wingman, pretty cool!


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## Gnomey (Dec 15, 2005)

Nice video Charles. I liked that bit as well, very cool!


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## Eagle_Giuli (Dec 15, 2005)

To add some information, all the aircrafts and helicopters from the Argentine Navy.


Attack aircrafts (19)
*11 Dassault Super Etendard
*8 Embraer Emb-326 Xavante

Cargo aircrafts (9)
*3 Fokker F-28 Fellowship
*2 Lockheed L-188 Electra
*4 Beechcraft B-200 Super King Air

Training aircrafts (10)
*10 Beechcraft T-34C Turbo Mentor

Special missions' aircrafts (14)
*6 Grumman S-2T Turbo Tracker (ASW)
*4 Lockheed P-3B Orion (Sea Patroulling)
*4 Beechcraft E-200 Cormorán (Sea Patroulling and AEW)

Helicopters (24)
*6 Aerospatiale SA- Alouette III (attack and assault)
*4 Eurocopter 555 Fennec (utilitary and firing director)
*6 Sikorsky SH-3D/H Sea King (utilitary and ASW)
*8 Bell UH-1H Huey (utilitary, automous, from the Argentine Marines)






Dassault Super Etendard





Bell UH-1H, Argentinian Marines' unit





P-3B Orion over the Puerto Madryn city, on the south-east of the country





SH-3H Sea King over the logistic ship "Patagonia".



Enjoy them...


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## CharlesBronson (Dec 20, 2005)

Eagle, I post your pics that did not came out.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 20, 2005)

say, skimmey, that wouldn't be an anti-sub aircraft would it


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## Eagle_Giuli (Dec 20, 2005)

Thanks my partner... 

Saludos che.


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 20, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> say, skimmey, that wouldn't be an anti-sub aircraft would it


Yeah.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 26, 2005)

Good old Huey's. Wish the Army would let me fly those.


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## Eagle_Giuli (Dec 27, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Good old Huey's. Wish the Army would let me fly those.



About the OLD... the Navy is planing to modernize them to the standard Huey II.


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## CharlesBronson (Dec 28, 2005)

Yes, probably like the Army´s Huey II with the new T-53-l-703 turbines.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 28, 2005)

The US Marines have already gone to the UH-1Y.

Here is a picture of it after they rolled it out for the first time.


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 28, 2005)

That's quite a facelift.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 28, 2005)

Yeap she is a beauty.


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## Gnomey (Dec 28, 2005)

I think she looked better before the facelift, although she still is a beauty...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 29, 2005)

Agreed dont take me wrong.


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 29, 2005)

Gnomey said:


> I think she looked better before the facelift, although she still is a beauty...


Nah, she's better now. Before it was sturdy. Now it's sturdy and packed.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 29, 2005)

Are you sure you are not talking about your girlfriend?


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 29, 2005)

You're right, the description works for both.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 29, 2005)

LOL


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## Gnomey (Dec 30, 2005)




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## CharlesBronson (Dec 30, 2005)

Waooooh ¡¡¡¡¡

Very shocking signature NS


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## CharlesBronson (Dec 30, 2005)

Some pics of SSK ARA Salta (modified U-209) under refurbishing.






The batteries, many batteries.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 31, 2005)

Speaking of U-Boots. You have to read up on the new ones that Germany is building. They are the most silent boats to have been built todate. Pretty amazing technology actually that they are using in the boats. They are even making them for export unfortunatly and the US has understandably made a stink about that.

Living in Germany it does sort of make me a bit angry that they wish to sell them to others including Taiwan, even though I think the US said they would approve of that one.


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 1, 2006)

Those new German boats are diesels, right?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 1, 2006)

Nope it uses an air-independent propulsion system using a silently operating fuel cell plant. The fuel cell plant which was developed by HDW, considerably increases the submarine's underwater endurance.

There are actually 2 classes of the sub the Type 212 and the Type 214.

Germany uses both of the new subs plus they are building them for Italy, Finland, Korea, and Taiwan.


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 1, 2006)

Fuel cells themselves have actually been around for a little while now. I think the older Type 209 can use them as well, if properly outfitted, and Canada was considering modifying these old British boats for them for a while. I've heard of the air-independent propulsion system but don't know much about it. Maybe I'll bother to read about it sometime.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 1, 2006)

I personally dont know anything about the propulsion system. From further reading though they are diesel boats and just augmented with the air-independent propulsion system.

Well here is some more info on it.

*Type 212*

The German Type 212A is an advanced design of non-nuclear submarine developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG (HDW). It features air-independent propulsion using nine 34-kilowatt Siemens hydrogen fuel cells, allowing the submarines to cruise under water for weeks without surfacing, silently, and with no exhaust heat. HDW is the first shipyard in the world to offer a fuel cell propulsion system ready for series production.

An initial order of four Type 212 submarines was placed by the German government in 1998. Because of significant updates to the design the designation was changed to Type 212A since then. They were built by the German Submarine Consortium at the shipyards of HDW and Thyssen Nordseewerke GmbH (TNSW) of Emden. Very similar to the way Airbus builds aircraft, different sections of the submarines were constructed at both sites at the same time and then half of them were shipped to the respective other yard so that both HDW and Thyssen Nordseewerke assembled two complete submarines each.

Salvatore Todaro, a Type 212A built by Fincantieri for the Marina Militare (Italian Navy), is scheduled to be commissioned in 2005, and her sister Sciré is under construction. Two more Italian Type 212s are planned.

Three Dolphin class submarines built for the Israeli Navy are of a similar design, but using conventional diesel-electric propulsion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_212_submarine


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 1, 2006)

Ah, now I remember these boats. Yeah, I _did_ read about this before. It takes away some of the handicaps of the diesel boat, like having to snort constantly. Thanks for the link.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 1, 2006)

No problem. I think they are neat subs. I would love to get the inside tour of one.


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 3, 2006)

A good link related to the U-212 is this:

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/






Extremely good loocking craft, is said that is even quieter than the "Gotland" swedish AIP series due his fuel cells, The Gotland used a closed circuit stirling engine... that have moving parts off course.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 4, 2006)

That is also what i have heard. The U-214 class are supposed to be the quietest subs out there right now.


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 4, 2006)

A picture of U-214 - HN Class






Absolute beautifull watercraft, the bundesmarine flag is only for testing, the Boat is actually for the Greek navy(PAPANIKOLIS S-120 ) , Germany still dont bought the U-214 design.


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 17, 2006)

Well.. back to the navy.


some short clips I ve took.


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## Eagle_Giuli (Jan 28, 2006)

Exellents mate!! 

Greetings EAGLE.


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 9, 2006)

I dont want to upload today, so all pics belong to Saorbats.com nice pics site but the forum in there honestly sucks.  

Some army stuff.

Hummer with Mk-19













With TOW 2.












120mm Mortar carrier TAMSE VCTP ( Vehiculo de Combate transporte de Mortero= combat vehicle mortar carrier)












The 120mm Brandt.


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## Gnomey (Feb 10, 2006)

Nice pics CB.


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 10, 2006)

Good ones, I like the Hummer 8)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 10, 2006)

I like the Mark 19. They are fun to shoot, wish I could mount one in my Hawk.


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 10, 2006)

9th of July parade ( Independence day).


Another Hummer, this time with the FN MAG 7,62mm.






M-548 transport with .50 M2HB.






NBQ suits, thank god for this guys is winter in july right here.







Panhard 90mm gun armored car, the MG in the turret are French, but I dont know his name.







M-113s in narrow street, nice anti-gang vehicle.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 10, 2006)

Good pics.


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## Gnomey (Feb 11, 2006)

Nice pics CB.


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 14, 2006)

Army aircrafts.

Agusta A-109 Hirundo.







De havilland Twin Otter.







Blackhawk.







Bell Huey II, no doubts about nationality in this.







Rockwell OV-1D Mohawk, the army received about 24 of this in 1994.

















Inside.












SLAR image.


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## Gnomey (Feb 15, 2006)

Good pics CB!


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## evangilder (Feb 15, 2006)

Good stuff!


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 16, 2006)

The VCA 155 mm.

VCA = Vehiculo de Combate de Artilleria = artillery combat vehicle. This self propelled gun is the most heavy AFV in service with the Army, it was developed from the Tam tank hull with a aditional roadwheel.







The turret was manufactured By OTO-Melara in Italy is 3 man crew. it have a laseric rangefinder and the locally built "Trueno" firing direction sistem.






The 155/L41 gun had a maximun range of 33 km with normal ammo, and 41 km with rocket assisted proyectiles (Base bleed)












The majority of the batteries equipped with this are deployed in the patagonian territory.






There is also a VCAMM ( Combat vehicle for ammunition transport) for resupply the 155mm shells in continues mode, but a few were made because the tracked M-548 was bought far more cheap than this "Made in Argentina" design... interesting vehicle anyway.







The shells depot in the VCAMM.


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## Gnomey (Feb 17, 2006)

Good stuff!


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## Glider (Feb 17, 2006)

If it helps the Panhard armored car was the AML90. The French sold loads of these in the 1970's to various countries and often the license so they could be built overseas. I don't know if the Argentina bought the license but I know that South Africa did and suspect that Brazil also had the license.
Argentina tried to use about a dozen in the Falklands but they were poor at going cross country due to the high centre of gravity and poor ground pressure.


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 17, 2006)

Yeah, I knows the name, mi doubt is about the MG , It is french made and originally caliber 7,5 x54 French, I hope that they were converted to 7,62mm Nato.  

*M-1097A2*


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 18, 2006)

that's one of the ugliest military machines i've ever seen


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## Gnomey (Feb 18, 2006)

I've seen uglier, it looks rather top heavy though...


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 18, 2006)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> that's one of the ugliest military machines i've ever seen



I agree completely, it look like several boxes put togheter.

That is why all the best car designers are in Europe.


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 18, 2006)

Or to be more precise, Italy 8)


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## Twitch (Feb 18, 2006)

Panzerknacker- I really appreciate seeing all those unique images!!!


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 18, 2006)

You see ? I am everywhere.  

Thank Twitch here you got more.

Here a mix of pics, aircraft belonging to the Air force, Prefectura (Coast Guard) and Gendarmeria Nacional ( Border and Internal security police).

Pa-31 Navajo ILS testing (AAF)








C-130H (AAF)







PIlatus PC-12 (Gendarmeria)






Sikorky S-62 (AAF)






CASA C-212-300 (Prefectura)


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 18, 2006)

cheddar cheese said:


> Or to be more precise, Italy 8)



That s right even I like also the new BMW and Mercedes stile.


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## Gnomey (Feb 19, 2006)

CharlesBronson said:


> cheddar cheese said:
> 
> 
> > Or to be more precise, Italy 8)
> ...


Yep those are nice too.

Good pics CB.


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 21, 2006)

The TAM ( tanque Argentino Mediano) is the basic AFV of the Army is a derivated from the German IFV Marder but with turret similar to the Leopard 1, the gun is a version of the 105 mm L7.

















The APFSDS ammo in a tungsten carbide monoblock with a incendiary an tracer element not the fancy uranium round.


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## Gnomey (Feb 22, 2006)

Nice pics CB.


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 23, 2006)

By the way: all 3d art belong to Iñaki Karras from Valencia, Spain.


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 10, 2006)

Yesterday an Argentine Air Force Learjet 35 crashed after the take off in an airport of Bolivia , this aircraft was in a navigational support of a AAF C-130H carring 10 tons of medicals supplies to this andinian country.







The crew of 6 were killed, glory to them , now they live with god.


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## CharlesBronson (May 11, 2006)

edited by CharlesBronson.


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 10, 2007)

This is a good one, 15 minutes video of Navy aircrafts operating over the Patagonia.

http://www.ara.mil.ar/multimedia/imagenes_video/aviacion4.asf


Right clik and save as...


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## Matt308 (Jan 10, 2007)

CharlesBronson said:


> The new armored weapons in the argentine army, check the size of that 4 guns .




Didn't finish it CB. Looked like that was going porno. Some of us can get in big trouble viewing inappropriate material from our computers. 

Was that innocent?


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 10, 2007)

Noooooooooo ¡¡¡... it was only funny. I edited that by the way.


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 15, 2007)

Argentine Navy Icebreaker rescuing ship near the South Pole.

http://www.ara.mil.ar/multimedia/imagenes_video/CruzdelSur.asf


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 17, 2007)

Super Etendar taking off from the aircraft carrier ARA 25 de Mayo.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbQL3HlIiww_


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## Matt308 (Feb 17, 2007)

Nice!


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 18, 2007)

Another one I ve uploaded to to YUOTUBE, this time same model aircraft doing "touch and go" exercises in the same ship.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9mGpkb8dfQ_


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 7, 2007)

A-4Q hooking in that carrier.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr5s0hdCo0E_


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## Matt308 (Mar 7, 2007)

I love the Scooter.


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 7, 2007)

You like it?

Then check this of the A-4AR, the air Force variant. The ship visible in the minute 4:18 is the argentine suply ship ARA Patagonia.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFr1ZNHSsvc_


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## Matt308 (Mar 8, 2007)

One of the better A-4 YouTube clips. And where else are you going to see a Lancaster (Lincoln?) and A-4 together. Didn't realize that Argentina had Lancasters.


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## timshatz (Mar 8, 2007)

Great stuff Charles. Good pics. Love the A4.

What is the capability of the A4AR? Is it up engined? Avionics? Looked like it was pretty heavy in terms of total weight.


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 8, 2007)

It was a Lincoln yes, Argentina had in his day 30 Avro lincoln and 100 Gloster Meteor.



> What is the capability of the A4AR? Is it up engined? Avionics? Looked like it was pretty heavy in terms of total weight.




Not much heavy than a Marines A-4M, the main change was the use of and F-16 APG-66 radar with enhanced characteristics, and all glass cockpit, . Too much avionics for this little plane in my opinion.














Complete overhaul of the airframe, wires and the Pratt Whitney J52P-408A engine 

Installation of Douglas Escapac 1-G3 ejection seats 

HGU-55/P helmets 

Honeywell Normal Air-Garrett's OBOGS (On Board Oxygen Generation System) 

Westinghouse/Northrop Grumman AN/APG-66V2 (ARG-1) radar 

HOTAS controls and a 'glass' cockpit (3 large CRT screens)

Sextant Avionique/Thales Avionics SHUD 

Litton/Northrop Grumman LN-100G inertial navigation system 

MIL-STD-1553B data bus 

Two General Dynamics Information Systems AN/AYK-14 mission computers

Northrop Grumman AN/ALR-93 (V)1 Radar warning receiver 

AN/ALQ-126B jammer 

ALR-39 chaff/flare dispenser 

IFF AN/APX-72


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## Matt308 (Mar 8, 2007)

Well done!


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## timshatz (Mar 9, 2007)

Good job Charles, thanks for posting the info. Slick little bird.


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 9, 2007)

Navy aircrafts operations over the U.S navy Carrier "Ronald Reagan" july 2004.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHB6kqaG3I0_


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## Matt308 (Mar 9, 2007)

Super Etentards on the Reagan? Was this a joint exercise?


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## timshatz (Mar 9, 2007)

Nice clip. Good job by the Argies on those bang and burns. Notice they all came in on line but slightly below the crosshairs. Is that because that happens at the last second or, as I was figurin', because they are used to hitting the deck on a smaller carrier and having less to work with start closer to the back. 

Heard during WW2 the Navy had something similar happen with the Light Carrier pilots when the landed on the Fleet Carriers. All the Light Carrier types would stay to the left of center on the flight deck 'cause they were used to working with a flight deck that was only 2/3s as wide as the Fleet Carrier.


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## Matt308 (Mar 9, 2007)

Even with the meatball? Doesn't that mean you would constantly be chasing yellows?


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## timshatz (Mar 9, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Even with the meatball? Doesn't that mean you would constantly be chasing yellows?



Yeah, come to think of it, I guess you would. Either that or landing on the very back of the carrier (the part where airplanes don't so much as land as "hit"). 

Good point. Hadn't though of it.


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 9, 2007)

> Nice clip. Good job by the Argies on those bang and burns



8) 




> Super Etentards on the Reagan? Was this a joint exercise?



It was, is not the first time. The exercises with foreign navies have an very practical purpose, that is the Navy pilots did not loss his Carrier operation skills. The last argentine carrier go to scrap in India in 1992.

SUE over the CVN-72 ..Abraham Lincoln? 1995.


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## Matt308 (Mar 10, 2007)

I have always liked the Etentard. Purposefully built aircraft. Too bad I have to compliment the French.


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## timshatz (Mar 10, 2007)

That makes sense all around, having the US run a carrier down for quals. Saves Argentina having to run a carrier all the time, keeps ties close, gets the US Battle Groups a little exercise in the South Atlantic. 

Pretty decent bang for the buck all the way around.


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## timshatz (Mar 10, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> I have always liked the Etentard. Purposefully built aircraft. Too bad I have to compliment the French.



Agree. The Super E is a pretty bird. Been around for a long time too. Does the job well.


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 11, 2007)

> That makes sense all around, having the US run a carrier down for quals. Saves Argentina having to run a carrier all the time, keeps ties close, gets the US Battle Groups a little exercise in the South Atlantic.
> 
> Pretty decent bang for the buck all the way around


.


Completely agreed.



> The last argentine carrier go to scrap in India in 1992


.


A little correction in here, the ship was actually put out of service in 1995 and scraped in 1998.


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## HealzDevo (Mar 12, 2007)

Grumman Trackers were cold war 1960s-1970s aircraft weren't they? I thought they were a very early AWACs before the Boeing E3C and that got into the act...


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 12, 2007)

Right , but the Turbo Trackers used by the ANAF were completely refurbished by Israel Aircraft Industries, with new avionics, computers, radar, and obviously engines...nearly emerged as a new plane.


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## Matt308 (Mar 13, 2007)

Beauties


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 13, 2007)

They are. 8) 







Aviation Photos: 24


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## Matt308 (Mar 13, 2007)

Great pic!


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## HealzDevo (Mar 14, 2007)

I can think of better aircraft than the Dassault Etendard. F-15 anyone? F-16 Fighting Falcon? F-4 Phantom II?


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## Glider (Mar 14, 2007)

Sea Harrier


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## Matt308 (Mar 14, 2007)

Still the Etentard is a nice looking and purposely built aircraft that is still serving today. Hell its even in Afghanistan!


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 14, 2007)

Well, the French S.E are more capable than the argentines. Teorically they should be replaced by the rafale M in 2002 ...but you know...money.


A couple of videos about the Army s Aeritalia G222 cargo aircraft.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtIjOSSvaeo_


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GCsW0VjJQ0_


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## Matt308 (Mar 14, 2007)

Etentards are doing the role of laser spotting for the Rafales in Afghanistan. Apparently until the F.3 is certified this is the situation with the only recently (and rushed) approval of Rafales for CAS.


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 15, 2007)

Funny, I tough that The Rafales had the laser designator incorporated on it.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mSMcA3TjqU_


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## Matt308 (Mar 16, 2007)

I guess not yet coupled with their ordnance. According to my information, the Rafales in Afghanistan went through a crash certification of carriage of weapons, but still rely upon the Etentard or other aircraft for laser designation. That is supposed to change in the near future.


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## mkloby (Mar 17, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Etentards are doing the role of laser spotting for the Rafales in Afghanistan. Apparently until the F.3 is certified this is the situation with the only recently (and rushed) approval of Rafales for CAS.



Real CAS is done by helos!


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## HealzDevo (Mar 18, 2007)

Okay, sounds like the French. They put something into service that isn't quite ready and have to spend ages solving problems that should have been solved in the design phase....


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## Glider (Mar 19, 2007)

HealzDevo said:


> Okay, sounds like the French. They put something into service that isn't quite ready and have to spend ages solving problems that should have been solved in the design phase....



That is something that the French have a bit of a reputation for.


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## Matt308 (Mar 19, 2007)

mkloby said:


> Real CAS is done by helos!



You lost me...


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## Matt308 (Mar 19, 2007)

...or maybe I lost you.


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 19, 2007)

> Real CAS is done by helos!



hmmmm...not sure, the helos is always more vulnerable to AA, the Skyraider was the best CAS platform in Vietnam...and it wasnt a Helicopter. 


More videos:

P-3 Orion, F-28 fellowship, Beech King Air, Aermacchi MB-326, Sea king, Turbotrackers and others navy planes operation over the southermost provinces of Santa Cruz and Tierra del Fuego, note the rough patagonian terrain and the snow capped mountains.

http://www.ara.mil.ar/multimedia/imagenes_video/aviacion4.asf 

15 minutes video.


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## mkloby (Mar 20, 2007)

CharlesBronson said:


> hmmmm...not sure, the helos is always more vulnerable to AA, the Skyraider was the best CAS platform in Vietnam...and it wasnt a Helicopter.
> 
> 
> More videos:
> ...



It was half in jest - but when the USMC needs no sh!t CAS - it's the Cobras. When the Z model comes out, it's going to be that much more effective. It's interesting you brought up the A-1, as there's a push and a thread I started a while back about some individuals in the USAF that want to use the T-6 for light attack/recon.

BTW - a helo can smash AAA w/o even being exposed. Plus - that is also mitigated by striking air defense with other assets first.

Oh my sweet King Air!


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## Matt308 (Mar 20, 2007)




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## HealzDevo (Mar 20, 2007)

Yes, because if you look a lot of the stuff that has gone wrong on the US planes has been a little bit of minor stuff. I mean rarely has a plane's combat ability been affected by problems once it is considered front-line has it?


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## mkloby (Mar 20, 2007)

HealzDevo said:


> Yes, because if you look a lot of the stuff that has gone wrong on the US planes has been a little bit of minor stuff. I mean rarely has a plane's combat ability been affected by problems once it is considered front-line has it?



Of course the idea is to eliminate the majority and most glaring issues during development - but things will always make it into production. I believe it was the F-14A had severe problems w/ flameouts with high G maneuvering. Early models of the CH-46 suffered tail separations. These things happen. Unfortunately, you can't forsee and correct everything before an A/C hits the fleet.


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## HealzDevo (Mar 20, 2007)

Okay. I just thought it a bit strange though, this bit about laser certification not having been already done...


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## Matt308 (Mar 21, 2007)

You can confirm the account of the laser designation on the Afghanistan Rafales in AvWeek.


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 21, 2007)

> BTW - a helo can smash AAA w/o even being exposed. Plus - that is also mitigated by striking air defense with other assets first




Really?, do you remember that pics of an Ah-64 Apache shot down with Kalashnikovs in operation Iraki freedom ?


More Beechs. This aircraft were used mostly for electronical recce task.















> The Beech Super King Air is used by COAN in various roles. One of these is aerial surveillance and patrol performed by the sophisticated Petrel variant. The aircraft on this photo was the third to be converted to this standard.


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## HealzDevo (Mar 24, 2007)

I do, but I thought that was more a lucky shot considering that a Kalashnikov would have an amount of kick in it, and also the fact that helicopter was probably in the air when fired at. I think both parties probably got a surprise that it worked...


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## mkloby (Mar 24, 2007)

CharlesBronson said:


> Really?, do you remember that pics of an Ah-64 Apache shot down with Kalashnikovs in operation Iraki freedom ?
> 
> 
> More Beechs. This aircraft were used mostly for electronical recce task.



CB - a helo hitting AAA from defilade is not related to an Apache getting hit with small arms fire, which is a rare occurance. You're right that they are more vulnerable, yet we have TTPs to mitigate that risk.

Awesome pics of the King Air 200!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 24, 2007)

Really...

We did an air assault in Iraq and a AH-64 went down from one hit by an AK-47. One round, thats it...

Now having said that, yeah it was luck. We had a Blackhawk come back with over 200 holes in it from AK-47s.


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 24, 2007)

> Awesome pics of the King Air 200!



Thanks .



> I do, but I thought that was more a lucky shot considering that a Kalashnikov would have an amount of kick in it, and also the fact that helicopter was probably in the air when fired at. I think both parties probably got a surprise that it worked...



I said Kalasnikov but probably was some heavy 7,62mm MG wich fired a more powerful round that the AK 7,62x39mm.



> CB - a helo hitting AAA from defilade is not related to an Apache getting hit with small arms fire



But is related to the vulnerabilty of the helicopter compared to an devoted CAS aircraft.



> wich is a rare ocurrence



Not so rare I remember an episode during the Falklands/Malvinas war in wich the Infantry regiment 25 destroyed 2 Aerospatiale Gazelle with combined FAls fire in matter of minutes. Off course the Gazelles had the excuse to be not as armored as the Apache.


By the way I fixed the broken link.



Two more videos, self propelled 155mm howitzer based in the TAM chassis.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMzDiDxkQ2w_



_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJGy5NlO65A_


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## mkloby (Mar 24, 2007)

CharlesBronson said:


> But is related to the vulnerabilty of the helicopter compared to an devoted CAS aircraft.



I don't dispute the vulnerability of a helicopter to say a harrier. I don't know how your nation organizes and employs its resources. The USMC relies HEAVILY on AH-1s for CAS. It's a devoted CAS a/c. We also use AV-8Bs. Its tried and tested in combat, and many marines will argue a cobra/apache is the best cas asset.



CharlesBronson said:


> Not so rare I remember an episode during the Falklands/Malvinas war in wich the Infantry regiment 25 destroyed 2 Aerospatiale Gazelle with combined FAls fire in matter of minutes. Off course the Gazelles had the excuse to be not as armored as the Apache.


Look at the numbers of sorties flown, and our helos that have been brought down by rifle fire. It's rare.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 24, 2007)

That is true.

Over 1,500,000 flight hours flown just by the Army in Iraq and only a little of 40 aircraft lost and only 22 of those I believe were shoot downs.

Hell I flew about 400 sorties in Iraq and I never got shot down and neither did any aircraft in our unit.


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 24, 2007)

Well, yea, the majority of losses are helos destroyed by more powerful means such as SA-7 and other Manpads.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 25, 2007)

Actually the majority of shootdowns were not by SA-7s. We have countermeasures that are allmost 100 percent effective against the SA-7 and very very effective against the SA-14.

The SA-16 is harder to defeat and the SA-18 is well...


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## Matt308 (Mar 25, 2007)

Marine Corps admitted that recent CH-47 downed was by a double digit Manpads. They noted that the countermeasures were never activated and the detection system never saw it coming. That is certainly both significant and telling of the technology leaking in from outside sources.


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## mkloby (Mar 25, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Marine Corps admitted that recent CH-47 downed was by a double digit Manpads. They noted that the countermeasures were never activated and the detection system never saw it coming. That is certainly both significant and telling of the technology leaking in from outside sources.



That was terrible... on a side note it was a CH-46E Phrog...


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## Matt308 (Mar 25, 2007)

Sorry, I stand corrected.


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 25, 2007)

> Actually the majority of shootdowns were not by SA-7s. We have countermeasures that are allmost 100 percent effective against the SA-7 and very very effective against the SA-14.
> 
> The SA-16 is harder to defeat and the SA-18 is well...



All right, tx, I am far to be an expert in missiles.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 25, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Marine Corps admitted that recent CH-47 downed was by a double digit Manpads. They noted that the countermeasures were never activated and the detection system never saw it coming. That is certainly both significant and telling of the technology leaking in from outside sources.



Yeap 16 or 18 probably.


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## Tiburtius (Mar 27, 2007)

Hello everybody!

I'm writing from Hungary (East-Europe). May I ask few questions from you? I'm doing a little research in the topic of the Falkland war (mainly of the submarines). If you answer, you would help a lot. 

P.S.: The pictures are great.

Tiburtius


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## Matt308 (Mar 27, 2007)

Yeah....so...your question?


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 28, 2007)

And do no forget that the 1982 war has his own topic. 


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9I6_DoRRzw_


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 29, 2007)




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## Tiburtius (Mar 29, 2007)

OK, thank you. I'll write to the Falkland-war topic.


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## timshatz (Mar 29, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Yeap 16 or 18 probably.



Adler, little off topic but did you guys fly with active countermeasures in Iraq? If so, was it mission specific or all the time? Just curious, not the sort of thing you hear about out in the world and it pretty important stuff, given the flak traps that were set out there. 

Probably a decent question for this board too.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 29, 2007)

All the time, not based off of mission. The actuall countermeasures are actually classified though.

Below is a link though that I found online about some of our countermeasures. The aircraft had more than just this however:

ALQ-144 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## mkloby (Mar 29, 2007)

Here's a system that's going into MV-22C.

AN/ALE-47 Countermeasures Dispenser System


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 29, 2007)

> OK, thank you. I'll write to the Falkland-war topic.




No worries, I will search some photos of the Armada submarines to post in that section.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 30, 2007)

mkloby said:


> Here's a system that's going into MV-22C.
> 
> AN/ALE-47 Countermeasures Dispenser System



They have a new system the Army is installing in the Blackhawks now and it is similar.


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## CharlesBronson (Jul 27, 2008)

*Lochkeed "Electron".*

A weirdy a/c of the navy. This was a comercial L-188 Electra originally used an liason and transport wich were converted in Elint and maritime patrol with SLAR , FLIR, several GPS and radar signal recording apparatus.

The name "Electron" was something amusing, a Electra wich want to became a Orion.  

The Electrons were based in the Vicealmirante Zar airbase in the Province of Chubut, deep patagonia. Eventually those were retired from service in 1997 when "real" Orions were bought by the Armada.


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## CharlesBronson (Sep 30, 2011)

Some years ago I had posted this pictureof the 1982 war:






..so for many years I thought that KC-130 was out of service for good, but some days ago I ve found this one of an combined exercise in 12 september 2011...






believe it or not is the same aircraft as in 1982, after an small refurbishing in 2009 is still in service....*God bless those C-130 Hercules designers for their great job.*


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## Lighthunmust (Sep 30, 2011)

CharlesBronson said:


> believe it or not is the same aircraft as in 1982, after an small refurbishing in 2009 is still in service....*God bless those C-130 Hercules designers for their great job.*



I share your sentiment. Long ago I flew in and jumped out of the them, and it was reassuring to know I was in a great aircraft. They sure do take a lickin and keep on tickin! I wonder if the Herc will last longer than the BUFF. Thanks for the great photo! Are those Etendards getting fuel?


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## CharlesBronson (Sep 30, 2011)

> I wonder if the Herc will last longer than the BUFF. Thanks for the great photo! Are those Etendards getting fuel?



Well I would put my money on the Hercules. Yes they are Super Etendards.


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 1, 2011)

This is not exactly aviation, but they are somewhat rare photos, cutting and refurbising an SSK (engine change, electronics, new torpedo tubes), this is the ARA San Juan, the work started in 2009 and was recently finished


















































.


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 1, 2011)

Very cool!


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 2, 2011)

New UAV for the Army, The Carancho ( somewhat predator copy isnt ?)


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## Lighthunmust (Oct 2, 2011)

CharlesBronson said:


> New UAV for the Army, The Carancho ( somewhat predator copy isnt ?)



Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Love those sub pics!


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 2, 2011)

Indeed, and look an the mini UAV in the left.

Fun with the TAM mbt:


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwD4ptWtbz8_


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 3, 2011)

*The Last of the Line.*

Today the Army announced they will be retiring from service the last operative OV-1D Mohawks in 2012. The argentine Mohawk were the last of the line in any military service around the world. Argentina bought 24 in 1992 an all served in the 601th Scout batallion. A nice plane but eventually we knew it going to happen.


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## parsifal (Oct 3, 2011)

never had much to do with the mohawks, but they are an aircraft Ive always been fascinated by....I would have thought they have overl;apping roles with the Pucara.

Ditto on the sub picks. It looks to me that the Argentines have put oversized props on their SSKs similar to our Collins class


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 3, 2011)

parsifal said:


> never had much to do with the mohawks, but they are an aircraft Ive always been fascinated by....I would have thought they have overl;apping roles with the Pucara.
> 
> Ditto on the sub picks. It looks to me that the Argentines have put oversized props on their SSKs similar to our Collins class



Different missions, althought I know that some Mohawks were used with rocket launchers in vietnam, the main purpose is photographic and radaric recoinassance and that is the use (Elint too) in the Argentine Army. The Pucara IA-58d in the other hand serves the Air force and is employed and and scout, strike and narco-aircraft interceptor, this last one a role almost unique for south american scenarios. There has been some exercises and operations of the both types togheter, specially to detect movements and infitrations of smugglers, drug trafficker in the northern border with Bolivian and Paraguay. Here a photo of 2009. It would be nice to have Pucaras in the Army but that is likely to never happen.

-------------

Submarines difinately are not my bag but the propellers look like a fancy bronze alloy isnt ?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 5, 2011)

parsifal said:


> never had much to do with the mohawks, but they are an aircraft Ive always been fascinated by....I would have thought they have overl;apping roles with the Pucara.
> 
> Ditto on the sub picks. It looks to me that the Argentines have put oversized props on their SSKs similar to our Collins class



Used to see them every day when I was a kid growing up. The had Mohawks in my dad's unit. I always have a fond spot for the Mohawk for some reason.


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## parsifal (Oct 5, 2011)

You can compare your SSK uprades with what we are doing with our very similar Collins class which are based on the SSK design.

SSK Collins Class (Type 471) Attack Submarine - Naval Technology


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 5, 2011)

Nice sub, is a bit larger than our TR-1700s, almost 11 meters but there are not so much differences in weight.

TR-1700 class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> Used to see them every day when I was a kid growing up. The had Mohawks in my dad's unit. I always have a fond spot for the Mohawk for some reason.



I think it was overshadowed by other types, even our modest pucara is more famous that this recce bird but is a quite useful and is you ask me, beautiful aircraft.


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## Gnomey (Oct 5, 2011)

Cool shots Charles!


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks, some artillery now, This look like Iraq, but actually are the 155mm TAM self-propelled Howitzer in exercises on the Patagonian Desert.


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## Matt308 (Oct 7, 2011)




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## CharlesBronson (Oct 8, 2011)

Mavericks:

LiveLeak.com - Argentinian Mavericks


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## Lucky13 (Oct 9, 2011)

Just been going through this thread CB, interesting and bl**dy good pics!
One question, does your navy still have any aircraftcarriers?


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## Lucky13 (Oct 9, 2011)

Just been going through this thread CB, interesting and bl**dy good pics!
One question, does your navy still have any aircraftcarriers?


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 11, 2011)

Unfortunately no, the last was withdrawn from service in 1994.

And talking about the navy, this photo might be interesting for the british members, the 2 Vickers Made Type 42 destroyes/frigates, the one in the background ARA Hercules was converted to a fast transport to support the Marines, amd the ARA santisima Trinidad, seen here in full broadside is out of bussiness, was used mostly for spare parts after 1987.


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 11, 2011)

Very cool. Shame about the aircraftg carrier. I always figured they would be useful for any country with a long coastline.


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 11, 2011)

vikingBerserker said:


> Very cool. Shame about the aircraftg carrier. I always figured they would be useful for any country with a long coastline.



Indeed, The last oportunity was in year 2000, France offered one of the 2 carries, the Clemenceua, Argentina did not like the ship ( I guess they thought was too old but it was better than nada aniway) Brazil purchase the other, the Foch for merely 13 millons. Now is the Sao Paulo, the only Carrier south of Rio Grande. The Argentine Navy ocasionally do some exercises on it.


Eurocopter Fennec as-555 (Navy)


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 15, 2011)

Lockheed Martin (Mcdonnell Douglas)A-4Ar Fighting Hawk, probable the most handsome A-4 variant ever. Is used as a strike and tactical fighter ( limited interception capabilities with sidewinders helped by his APG-66 radar) by the 4th and 5th Fighter Squadrons (Air Force)


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## parsifal (Oct 17, 2011)

Ah A-4s, you bring a tear to my eye CB.....


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## Matt308 (Oct 17, 2011)

Love the A-4 variants.


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 18, 2011)

A bit more on the Fighting hawk.


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## parsifal (Oct 18, 2011)

Fantastic.....when did the Argentines acquire the humpback A-4s? I assume after the Malvinas/Falklands, and to replace lost airframes?


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 18, 2011)

parsifal said:


> Fantastic.....when did the Argentines acquire the humpback A-4s? I assume after the Malvinas/Falklands, and to replace lost airframes?



Yes, in 1997, the A-4ar is basically an A-4m with F-16 electronics, the conversion was made by Lockheed-Martin.


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## parsifal (Oct 18, 2011)

If this mark of a-4 has equivalent of f-16 electronics, I would say it has better than "limited" AAW capability. Even the RANs old A4Gs and Fs were reasonably effective against LR maritime aircraft in their day, operating and fleet defence fighters. I think the RAN were pioneers in using their A-4s in that caapacity....we used them (and configured accordingly) as fighters from acquisition in '67.....but perhaps not....


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 21, 2011)

parsifal said:


> If this mark of a-4 has equivalent of f-16 electronics, I would say it has better than "limited" AAW capability. Even the RANs old A4Gs and Fs were reasonably effective against LR maritime aircraft in their day, operating and fleet defence fighters. I think the RAN were pioneers in using their A-4s in that caapacity....we used them (and configured accordingly) as fighters from acquisition in '67.....but perhaps not....



That is correct, but the problem with them is the aircraft itself, the performances compared with a true fighter are poor (subsonics, rate of climb, etc) and the lack of medium range misiles like the Sparrow or skyflash. In the other hand the A-4ar is a neat strike aircraft wich have in his arsenal some stand off weapons like the GPS guided Dardo (dart) bomb and the laser guided missile AS-25, it has a good choice for defensive measures in an agressive electronic enviroment. The argentine Air Force is pretty confident that with the proper penetration tactics this aircraft could achieve every strike mission given against any possible enemy in the worst possible scenario on the south american continent... you simply cant ask for more of it.


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## CharlesBronson (Dec 20, 2011)

Ripping it Up ¡¡¡¡


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRoHbugpT0g_


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## Glider (Dec 20, 2011)

That last photo from the rear of the A4 is one of the best that I have seen.


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 20, 2011)

I agree!


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## nuuumannn (Dec 20, 2011)

Hey Charles Bronson, the upgraded A-4 is certainly no match for a modern BVR fighter, but in terms of manoeuvrability down low they take some beating. The RNZAF A-4s were similarly modified in the 1980s, but were configured for GA and anti-ship only, with AIM-9s for self defence. They proved a formidable foe in exercises against Asia/Oceania air forces. 

Those are beautiful shots, but I think this might be a better looking A-4, mate!


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## CharlesBronson (Dec 20, 2011)

nuuumannn said:


> Hey Charles Bronson, the upgraded A-4 is certainly no match for a modern BVR fighter, but in terms of manoeuvrability down low they take some beating. The RNZAF A-4s were similarly modified in the 1980s, but were configured for GA and anti-ship only, with AIM-9s for self defence. They proved a formidable foe in exercises against Asia/Oceania air forces.
> 
> Those are beautiful shots, but I think this might be a better looking A-4, mate!
> 
> View attachment 187642



And I explain and explained that to everybody with ears wich want to hear me, is a tactical aircraft with a very limited air-toair capabilities.


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## Matt308 (Dec 20, 2011)

CharlesBronson said:


> Ripping it Up ¡¡¡¡
> 
> 
> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRoHbugpT0g_




Holy $hit!


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 20, 2011)

I have to 2nd Matt's take on that!


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## parsifal (Dec 21, 2011)

CharlesBronson said:


> That is correct, but the problem with them is the aircraft itself, the performances compared with a true fighter are poor (subsonics, rate of climb, etc) and the lack of medium range misiles like the Sparrow or skyflash. In the other hand the A-4ar is a neat strike aircraft wich have in his arsenal some stand off weapons like the GPS guided Dardo (dart) bomb and the laser guided missile AS-25, it has a good choice for defensive measures in an agressive electronic enviroment. The argentine Air Force is pretty confident that with the proper penetration tactics this aircraft could achieve every strike mission given against any possible enemy in the worst possible scenario on the south american continent... you simply cant ask for more of it.



We only ever needed to use our A-4s as Fleet Defence craft against Soviet LR Aviation....TU-95 Bears mostly. Fighter v Fighter there is no hope against anything better than a MiG-17. But the kindss of strike aircraft wwe were expected to fight (luckily it never was tested) could have been handled by A-4s.....bombers killing bombers essentially.


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## Gnomey (Dec 21, 2011)

Good stuff Charles!


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## CharlesBronson (Dec 21, 2011)

Matt308 said:


> Holy $hit!



The original version of this video was the first 18 secs, many people simply dont believe that so I had to include the last 6 seconds of the image showing the damage done by the combined force of the 2 Super Etendars to the airfield.

Granted.. there was some issues with the maintenance of the airfield, but the vid shows clearly you never can get too confident with a jet blast. The incident happened in october 2011 in Comandante Espora Navy Air Base, few kilometer outside the city of Bahia Blanca in the Province of Buenos Aires.


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 21, 2011)

That really was amazing, thanks for posting!


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## Matt308 (Dec 22, 2011)

The concrete construction looks far below thickness grade for military (or civilian) application in the US and the western world. But holy cow that was dramatic.


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## CharlesBronson (Dec 22, 2011)

Matt308 said:


> The concrete construction looks far below thickness grade for military (or civilian) application in the US and the western world. But holy cow that was dramatic.


 
I dont know the exact details but seems like a patched area of the airfield, in any case a poor work.

*The russians came.*

Images of the first bath of Mil Mi-17E Helicopters for the VII Air Brigade arrive in 30th november 2011 (to replace Bell 212), now I dont have any against the russians, but I am not really sure if this is a good choice, those are new helos with search radar flir and others but I would prefer the competitor wich was Eurocopter Cougar.


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## nuuumannn (Dec 22, 2011)

CharlesBronson said:


> And I explain and explained that to everybody with ears wich want to hear me, is a tactical aircraft with a very limited air-toair capabilities.



Easy Tiger. My ears work fine, by the way, as do my eyes; I just wanted to emphasise that despite its limited air air capabilities the A-4 took some beating manoeuvring at low level against better endowed fighters.


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 22, 2011)

I think the Isreali's made good use of them in this way as well.


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## CharlesBronson (Dec 22, 2011)

nuuumannn said:


> Easy Tiger. My ears work fine, by the way, as do my eyes; I just wanted to emphasise that despite its limited air air capabilities the A-4 took some beating manoeuvring at low level against better endowed fighters.



Uh ? I wasnt talking about yourself, I was talking about a coffe chat with anybody interested in aviation issues.



> I think the Isreali's made good use of them in this way as well.


Hmm, yea but the israelis have a lot of experience with russian materiel, they keep caturing those since 1950s.


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 22, 2011)

They kinda look like Sea Kings to me, I wonder if they are as good.


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## tomo pauk (Dec 23, 2011)

Mi-8 is/was perhaps the most spread cargo/multirole helicopter in the world; the latest versions finally feature a proper rear ramp and decent avionics. We've bought some for Croatian AF.
The werstern choppers might be better choice, but I reckon two Mi-8s can be bought for 1 Cougar.


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## CharlesBronson (Dec 23, 2011)

tomo pauk said:


> Mi-8 is/was perhaps the most spread cargo/multirole helicopter in the world; the latest versions finally feature a proper rear ramp and decent avionics. We've bought some for Croatian AF.
> The werstern choppers might be better choice, but I reckon two Mi-8s can be bought for 1 Cougar.



For what I ve seen in the price tag papers published in argentine aviation forums the relation is more like 2.4 to one, the difference it simply is too much money, since the Air Force VIIth Brigade will going to use this type mostly in the Patagonia and Antartic territories I think they were like "well... in Russia there is a lot of cold, ice and snow, it should work here too"


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## tomo pauk (Dec 24, 2011)

IIRC the 'thing' above the sliding doors in the cabin heater? It was before mounted in lower position, but it was relocated in order to make space for the door, that is wider than the one at the opposite side.

If it's any comfort for you, the choppers from Croatian AF suffered only one loss in last 20 years, and that one because the example was reworked in a VIP variant, and a lousy job was made, according to the investigators. During the war 1991-95 we did not suffer any loss what so ever.


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## Glider (Dec 24, 2011)

Mi8 and Mi 17 have always been very good at high altitude and its for that reason the Indian and Pakistani airforces use them. They may not be as sophisticated as the lastest designs, but they do what they are designed to do, at a low cost and there is nothing wrong with that.


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 24, 2011)

Sometimes the simplest designs are the best.


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## Matt308 (Dec 26, 2011)

Glider said:


> Mi8 and Mi 17 have always been very good at high altitude and its for that reason the Indian and Pakistani airforces use them. They may not be as sophisticated as the lastest designs, but they do what they are designed to do, at a low cost and there is nothing wrong with that.



Amen. I do believe that they are now manufacturing and selling Mi-117s with upgraded western avionics and turbine engines.


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## CharlesBronson (Dec 28, 2011)

Matt308 said:


> Amen. I do believe that they are now manufacturing and selling Mi-117s with upgraded western avionics and turbine engines.



Apparently this ones got some French avionics, the search radar is a french Thales.

Any gun lover here ? Argentinian CITER F3 155mm Howitzer. Is not the most modern but the most widespread artillery piece in the army. Manufactured in the state Arsenal of Rio tercero, Cordoba. This howitzer is also used by the Croatian army.


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 28, 2011)

Now that would be fun!


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 5, 2012)

Matra Pb-400, french made parachute drag bombs:


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## nuuumannn (Feb 5, 2012)

Excellent photos CB! Brilliant!


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 6, 2012)

Thanks, dear Nuuumannn, this ones are a bit oldies, 2003, launching the wire guided missile AS12 from naval Aerospatiale Alouette III, both systems withdrawn from service in 2008.


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## Glider (Feb 9, 2012)

The AS 12. I have seen a Wasp carrying a couple of AS 12 but normally 2 sometimes 4 x AS 11. As usual in a Wasp when carrying a full weapon load, we normally had to take the doors off.

In the Falklands role I belive in the the Wessex was sometimes used in the assult role with the AS 11 or 12. IIRC on one occaision the Argentines didn't know exactly where they were but knew they were behind a hill, so instead of trying to use AA weapons fired air burst artillery over the ridge. A simple but effective method of solving the problem, it didn't shoot anyhting down but the Wessex crews got the message, did the sensible thing and left.


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 9, 2012)

Glider said:


> The AS 12. I have seen a Wasp carrying a couple of AS 12 but normally 2 sometimes 4 x AS 11. As usual in a Wasp when carrying a full weapon load, we normally had to take the doors off.
> 
> In the Falklands role I belive in the the Wessex was sometimes used in the assult role with the AS 11 or 12. IIRC on one occaision the Argentines didn't know exactly where they were but knew they were behind a hill, so instead of trying to use AA weapons fired air burst artillery over the ridge. A simple but effective method of solving the problem, it didn't shoot anyhting down but the Wessex crews got the message, did the sensible thing and left.



The combination Scout/as12 was used by the british to disable the submarine ARA Santa Fe


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 14, 2012)

Marine firing the Bofors RBS-70 II laser guided MANPADS, high speed camera frames


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## Matt308 (Mar 14, 2012)

Argentines love them some Hummers apparently. Didn't know that .


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 15, 2012)

Matt308 said:


> Argentines love them some Hummers apparently. Didn't know that .



In the Marines is the standard vehicle, in the army it only serve with some cavalry and recce regiments. The Air force also have a few, mostly the M1097 comunications variant.


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## CharlesBronson (Apr 22, 2012)

Vaporising a fishing trawler with the german torpedo Telefunken SST4


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfcIQHCoGoQ_


The same weapon several years ago used against a Gearing class destroyer.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STCA5oAyH1w_


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## CharlesBronson (Aug 25, 2013)

The Air Force received some days ago the first batch of *Grob 120Tp *from germany. Apparently this going to be the basic trainer for the two services (AAF /Navy) in the following years. Cute little turboprop.


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## Gnomey (Aug 25, 2013)

Good shots!

Had an aerobatic flight in one of those a couple of years ago, good fun (and relatively easy) to fly.


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 25, 2013)

They do look pretty cool.


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## CharlesBronson (Aug 25, 2013)

Thank you lads, the winglets make him a very elegant one indeed. They replace the EMB-312 and B-45 Mentor, the Mentor flies no longer from 2010, in regards of the Tucano is said they going to be converted in COIN/Drug interception planes.

A video:

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5e5ozf4mRQ_


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 6, 2013)

Argentine Navy SUE in Discovery Channel (1991)


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfdjsPtAWwc_


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## CharlesBronson (Mar 16, 2016)

Getting tough....


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWg1_P7kvOA_


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## Shinpachi (Mar 18, 2016)

They need lesson like we did


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## parsifal (Mar 18, 2016)

I read about that in the news. chinese arent happy Jan


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## nuuumannn (Mar 18, 2016)

Very nice to see CB, great images; not something we get to see too often; keep it up.


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## Shinpachi (Mar 18, 2016)

A few years ago, a Japanese whaler had violated New Zealand's Exclusive Economic Zone chasing Sea Shepherd.
NZ government requested Japanese government apology but it was neglected.
I think NZ should have captured the vessel or imposed penalty like Russians always do.

It is impossible for parents to teach their kids all rules in the society in advance.
My parents often asked their neighbors "Please scold my son if he did anything wrong".
With such advice, I was detained by police when I was 7 and stopped playing with fire.

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## CharlesBronson (Mar 20, 2016)

The argentine fishermen arent happy either... after years of fish resources being ripped off by foreigners.

Warning shots of the coast Guard CG-28 patrol ship against this illegal flotilla, this was filmed a couple of days before the sinkinkgof the YuYU 10.

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## CharlesBronson (Mar 22, 2016)

Navy Lockheed Electra L188 (Elint modified) crash in 1989, cause hydraulic failure, 5 injured.


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## CharlesBronson (Aug 15, 2016)

*Farewell to the Grumman Mohawk
*
Final landing of the last operative OV-1*D, *the Army adquired 24 in 1992-93 from USMC stocks (some were first gulf war veterans), 16 were in flight condition, the remaining for spares. The Mohawk was a well liked plane, performing observation, radaric and Flir recce and border control missions. There were only 2 accidents in 23 years in service. Good bye and well done.

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## nuuumannn (Aug 16, 2016)

Great aeroplane and neat video. AE-021 at the national army museum in Buenos Aires:

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## CharlesBronson (Aug 16, 2016)

Good photo, is a shame the this design of Grumman, the OV-10 Bronco and the IA58 Pucara arent in the production line anymore, there is a large niche for the border control/radar recce/COIN roles/laser spoting, etc, etc, now are mostly fullfilled by single turbooprops like the Super Tucano or AT-802U lacking endurance and weapon carring capàbility.


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## michaelmaltby (Aug 16, 2016)

While, like you, I admire these vintage, airframes ....  ... realistically, I think you can't beat the efficiencies of the market which generates commercial platforms with commercial operating costs, such as these


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## CharlesBronson (Aug 16, 2016)

Nice photos but that 2 birds dont fit the role described in my earlier post, they are too big and much more expensive and could not intercept and force down the narco flights crossing the border (they certainly could detect those but need a third plane for the job), you need something like the *Mohaw*k ( a faster one), IA-58C Charlie ( with radar and flir) or the OV-10 NOGS. This last one in particular with more powerful engines and enhanced sensors is probably the best for the job.


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## nuuumannn (Aug 16, 2016)

I've always thought the Pucara was worthy of further modification and I understand that the FAA are examining or implementing engine upgrades for the type. It is an aircraft that could and should have seen greater success outside of Argentina.


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## CharlesBronson (Aug 16, 2016)

nuuumannn said:


> I've always thought the Pucara was worthy of further modification and I understand that the FAA are examining or implementing engine upgrades for the type. It is an aircraft that could and should have seen greater success outside of Argentina.



Some Pucaras had received PW PT6 1450 shp engines,



but the avionics is outdated ( night flight characteristicas are very poor) and the "younger" airframe has 30 years old and with signs of fatigue, the production line is closed and the goverment has no plans nor will to re-open that.
They still perform border control, heloicopter escort and drug plane chasing, but they need ground control radar and most of the times the planes incoming argentine territory are small Cessnas wich flew below radar envelope.

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## nuuumannn (Aug 16, 2016)

Always though the Pucara should have had PT-6s. Neat video, although they need to get the mower out at that airfield.

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## Gnomey (Aug 17, 2016)

Good stuff!


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 17, 2016)

I've always liked the Pucaras, great posts!


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