# MW50/GM1 use and effects ..



## Rapecq (Feb 11, 2007)

Hi

My question is quite simple. As we know Ta 152H1 (its Jumo 213E) has dual injection option (MW-50 and GM-1). MW-50 was used in such fighters as for example Bf 109 G-10/ K4 or Fw 190 D9. MW-50 was used(should be) usually at low and medium attitudes and was fully effective up to 6000m. Using MW-50 increase (in big simplication) the engine power, so it improvesclimbing, that's why it was widely used in interceptors fighters. GM-1 was used to increase performance of the engine at high attitudes. Well, I don't want to write about those 2 injection systems, here is some info:
*MW 50 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
*GM-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*

I would like to ask you about what was the opinion of pilots about those boosts ?? Were they willing to use it ?? or were they scared that it could (if were not used rightly) damage engine. 

"Chief designer Kurt Tank was flight-testing a Ta 152H when he encountered a flight of roving Mustangs. He simply turned toward home, applied the MW 50 system to boost his engine, and gave his pursuers the slip" - info from this Focke-Wulf Ta152H page .


Regards,


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## Erich (Feb 11, 2007)

but the supercharger-MW 50 injection was used at high altitude by day fighter pilots in the Bf 109G-6/AS to combat the P-51B's in April/May of 44, as well as the same a/c in the Moskito-jagd in august -December 44 to chase LSNF Mossies towards and leaving Berlin


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## Rapecq (Feb 11, 2007)

> but the supercharger-MW 50 injection was used at high altitude



Maybe it was (but not as effective as at low and medium attitudes), I'm not sure about it, but I read that the best effects of use MW-50 are under 6000 m - don't know why exactly. I also read that Jumo 213 E-1 engine was using new high-pressure MW-50 system (which use additional pump). I would appreciate if someone could explain those complicated aspects of Jumo 213E-1  and its high - pressure MW-50.

But my question is still the same: what were the pilots thinking about those injection systems ??

Regards


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## Civettone (Feb 12, 2007)

I'm not very good in explaining technical issues but I know that there are several sites which explain it better and if you want I'll provide you with a couple.
I tell myself it has to do with 'rated altitude' at which the engine or better said the supercharger achieves maximal compression and power. Under that rated altitude the MW 50 is used, above the GM 1.

What I read is that MW 50 was liked but not the GM 1 because the latter's installation weight too much so it would only have an advantage at height altitude but a disadvantage at low alt. (This is the opinion of the engineers so not the pilots, sorry...)

Certain Bf 109s traded their GM 1 systems in for either extra fuel or the MW 50 system. 

Kris


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## Erich (Feb 12, 2007)

ah wait a minute, the MW 50 was an injection system used at high altitude for a duration of up to 10 minutes and hopefully not pushed beyond that. I./JG 3 was designed with Horst Petschlers help to combat P-51B's from April to May 44 in the high cover role. Moskito-Jagd had the MW 50 for high altitude jumps on high flying Mossies. G-6/AS with MW 50 was used by II./JG 11 and JG 1 109's for precisely what I mentioned if used beyond the 10 minute duration a frozen engine and popped pistons would envelop ........... more of this very instance will be in our future work.

if used at medium alt.'s then it was necessary as a speed jump and nothing else


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## Morai_Milo (Feb 12, 2007)

MW50 was a useless application above the engine's FTH. It provided nothing as the supercharger was not putting out its max boost above the FTH. Since the max boost was not reached, there was no requirement for charge cooling to stop any detonation.

Typically DB engines had a FTH in the 6km to 7km range which is the high end of medium altitude.


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## Soren (Feb 14, 2007)

Erich said:


> ah wait a minute, the MW 50 was an injection system used at high altitude for a duration of up to 10 minutes and hopefully not pushed beyond that. I./JG 3 was designed with Horst Petschlers help to combat P-51B's from April to May 44 in the high cover role. Moskito-Jagd had the MW 50 for high altitude jumps on high flying Mossies. G-6/AS with MW 50 was used by II./JG 11 and JG 1 109's for precisely what I mentioned if used beyond the 10 minute duration a frozen engine and popped pistons would envelop ........... more of this very instance will be in our future work.
> 
> if used at medium alt.'s then it was necessary as a speed jump and nothing else



Sounds like you're describing the GM-1 system. The MW-50 system was used from SL and up, it allowed the engine to be run at a higher boost pressure.


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## mad_max (Feb 17, 2007)

> MW50 was a useless application above the engine's FTH. It provided nothing as the supercharger was not putting out its max boost above the FTH. Since the max boost was not reached, there was no requirement for charge cooling to stop any detonation.



The truth ^^^^^


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