# First air victory of WWII



## tino (Jan 29, 2005)

At about 7:00 a.m., (other sources say 5:30 a.m.), two P-11c's moved onto the runway. Just after take off, at about 300 meters altitude, the Polish fighters were suddenly attacked by a pair of German Ju 87B dive-bombers, from I/StG2 "Immelmann". Uffz. Frank Neubert , piloting a "Stuka" coded "T6+GK", sucessfully shot at Medwecki and scored probably the first air victory of WWII. "Jedenastka" ("Eleventh" - popular Polish name of P-11) fell, and commander of the "City of Krakow" Regiment was killed. Gnys was now also under attack, but a few seconds later he shot at a "Stuka" piloted by Lt. Branderburg. From the German aircraft there appeared some smoke, but it managed to escape into the clouds and returned to Nieder-Ellguth Airfield.


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## tino (Jan 29, 2005)

Sorry, but I'm still tryin to figure out how this page works.
The picture above showing
Epilogue: On August 31st, 1989, at 10:00 a.m., and after 50 years after the war, two combatants from either side met again - Wladyslaw Gnys and Frank Neubert - this time as friends. They were the first pilots to score air victories in WWII .


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## tino (Jan 29, 2005)

Gnys did not return to his airfield, but flew directly to the German border. A few minutes later, he noticed a formation of two Do 17E bombers from KG 77, probably returning from the Krakow bombing. The Polish fighter pilot attacked the bombers with the advantage of altitude. After a few passes, both Do 17 bombers crashed in the country village of Zurada, near Olkusz city. One of the bombers had the call sign "3Z+FR" on the fuselage. All 6 German crew members were killed (one was identified as Uffz. Klose). On the return home to base, Gnys met alone He 111, but his guns were out of ammo


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## evangilder (Jan 30, 2005)

Interesting story! Even cooler with the picture of them today as friends.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 30, 2005)

Yeah, I love the P.11c! Its such a great little aircraft 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 30, 2005)

i don't like it.............


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 30, 2005)

Why?


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 30, 2005)

That's interesting, tino. Great pic too! 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 31, 2005)

because it's ugly................


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## Adolf Galland (Jan 31, 2005)

and outgunned, very poor performance


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## Medvedya (Jan 31, 2005)

That's a bit facile.

Consider that it was developed in the mid Thirties. It was simply of it's time - which doesn't mean it was a bad aircraft. 

The fact that one of them shot down two modern German bombers in one sitting would suggest it really wasn't bad at all.


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## Crazy (Jan 31, 2005)

Lanc, are there any planes that you think aren't ugly?  

The P.11 is indeed a wonderful little plane


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## lesofprimus (Jan 31, 2005)

What happened to CC's siggy pic???


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 1, 2005)

the lancaster isn't ugly..........


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## GermansRGeniuses (Feb 1, 2005)

How did we know you would say that?


Wasn't there a time you said the Battle wasn't bad-looking?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 2, 2005)

no................

i have some credability you know..................


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 4, 2005)

Well its news to me  You think Good looking planes are ugly, and ugly planes are good looing. Example:

Boomerang and P.11 - Good looking

YOU THINK: Ugly.



Crazy said:


> The P.11 is indeed a wonderful little plane



Hell yeah, on FB it turns on a bloody sixpence, you can take on most early war planes with it no probs.




Halifax, Lancaster, and most French bombers: Ugly

YOU THINK: Good looking. Youre crazy?!


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## Chocks away! (Mar 7, 2005)

The mad Italian strikes back = D


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## mosquitoman (Mar 7, 2005)

French bombers do look ugly but the Lanc and the Hally look good


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 7, 2005)

Chocks away! said:


> The mad Italian strikes back = D



The mad Italian ALWAYS strikes back!


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## hellmaker (Mar 23, 2005)

Nice storry man...really nice...


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## Gnomey (Mar 23, 2005)

Nice story, the P-11 was a nice little aircraft and it is good to see they are now friends


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## Blitzkrieg Bop (May 11, 2005)

I always thought it was the other way around. I thin that it was a stuka that (probably) was the first arial casualty. I will search it up. To be continued...


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## Blitzkrieg Bop (May 11, 2005)

Srry, it was the first german loss in ww2 shot down on the first day of the campain in poland by a p11. 
I wonder how they ever find out when the first p11 was shot down. There were hundreds of p11 shot down in the first days..


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## cheddar cheese (May 11, 2005)

You lie! P.11's are invincible


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## plan_D (May 11, 2005)

So invincible that only one P.11c is left.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 11, 2005)

perhaps, because it is invincible, they only had to make one as they knew it would never get shot down??


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## mosquitoman (May 11, 2005)

They were mostly killed on the ground, in the air they could just about hold their own even with the much vaunted Bf-109


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## plan_D (May 12, 2005)

I think you're holding the P.11c much-much-much higher than it should be there, MM. You might be mixing it up with something like a Spitfire or Hurricane.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 12, 2005)

i'm with pD on this one...........


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## cheddar cheese (May 12, 2005)

Nah it is a great plane. More manoeverable than a French soldier on the run.


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## mosquitoman (May 12, 2005)

It took down quite a few Me110s anyway


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 12, 2005)

so could lots of planes.......


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## plan_D (May 12, 2005)

That's hardly an achievement.


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## mosquitoman (May 12, 2005)

For an early monoplane, it was. I think the P.11 shot down more plane than P.11s were shot down


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## cheddar cheese (May 12, 2005)

I wouldnt be surprised. They were pretty remarkable little planes.


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## mosquitoman (May 12, 2005)

Finally, someone's on my side


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## plan_D (May 13, 2005)

He's about the only one.


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## cheddar cheese (May 13, 2005)

It did what was asked of it at the time, and nothing else.


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## plan_D (May 13, 2005)

I know, it got shot down. The Germans asked that of it.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 15, 2005)

i'm with pD on this one......


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## cheddar cheese (May 15, 2005)

Only cos you love him so much


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## plan_D (May 15, 2005)

Well, that's understandable.


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## Blitzkrieg Bop (May 17, 2005)

Think its becouse p11 can make a much tighter turn than the 109 wich was just a hell of a lot faster, but this way the p11 could outturn the 109 and hit it a couple of times. Just like in holland in the early days when the germans invaded it. The d21's performance was (ofcourse) more worse than the 109 but it turned tighter. But it aint a better fighter than the 109 (ofcourse).


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## cheddar cheese (May 17, 2005)

Although just A flight sim, I evaded 16 Ace level P-51's in a P.11 (for fun) and even shot a couple down. I stayed away from them by constantly turning. my desire to kill lost me it though...


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## Blitzkrieg Bop (May 17, 2005)

LOL! Sounds formilure to me. Here are some thoughts some people shared with you (including me!) altough we can live another day to tell the stories without the chance of being shot down for the very (VERY) last time of your life... [-o<

(especially the right bottom one is formiliure for me in FB AEP PF.. )


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## plan_D (May 18, 2005)

It's one thing evading and another making a kill. Also, you probably had unlimited ammo when you were in the P.11. The P.11s armament was extremely under-powered for effective combat.

Speed is one of the most important things when entering combat. The Bf-109 would have just needed to zoom in at high speeds and be all over the P.11 before it could react.


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## cheddar cheese (May 18, 2005)

Im past my unlimited ammo days. 8)


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## plan_D (May 18, 2005)

I was online once playing Il-2 FB and most of the people on the other side were flying I-15 or I-16s and they were turning tighter than my Bf-109 but it didn't matter because they could never get me, I just kept it at high speed, passed them and kept going straight. They didn't stand a chance.


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## v2 (Nov 9, 2005)

Here you can see the grove cpt. Medwecki in little village Moravica near Cracow.


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## v2 (Nov 13, 2005)

If you'd like to known something about polish air forces in september'39 it's for you:

http://lonestar.texas.net/~snolep/fighter/index21.htm


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 13, 2005)

Very interesting pics there. If only I could read Polish. Oh well. 
Interesting link too.


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## v2 (Nov 13, 2005)

More links about heroes this story:

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/gnys/gnys.htm
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/neubert/neubert.htm


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 13, 2005)

Yeah, I've seen those before. Good stuff.


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## v2 (Nov 18, 2005)

Now, more about victims...





A fragment of bomber's fuselage Dornier Do 17 E with KG 77 with code symbol 3Z+FR. The first victory of Władysław Gnyś achieved 1 September 1939 year at seven a.m. over Żurada near Olkusz...










A second one...


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## loomaluftwaffe (Jan 7, 2006)

maybe cos most of the polish kills ive heard of were against Do-17s and stukas.


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## rebel8303 (Jan 28, 2006)

POLISH AIRFORCE 1939

PZL P.7a (Fighter)
Engine: Bristol Jupiter VII.F
Horsepower (hp):520
Max Speed (km/h):327
Armament:2 x 7.92 mm
Crew:1
Service Ceiling (m): 8275
Max Range (km):600
-----------------------------
PZL P.11a (Fighter)
Engine:Skoda Mercury IVS2
Horsepower (hp):500
Max Speed (km/h):375
Armament:2 x 7.92 mm
Crew:1
Service Ceiling (m): 8040
Max Range (km): 550
----------------------------
PZL P.11c (Fighter)
EngineZL Mercury VIS2
Horsepower (hp): 645
Max Speed (km/h): 390
Armament: 2 or 4 x 7.92 mm
Crew:1 
Service Ceiling (m): 11000
Max Range (km):810
----------------------------
PZL P.50a Jastrzab (Fighter)
Engine:Bristol Mercury VIII
Horsepower (hp):840
Max Speed (km/h):500
Armament:4 x 7.92
Crew:1
Service Ceiling (m): (?)
Max Range (km):
----------------------------
PZL P.23B Karas (Bomber / Recon)
Engine: PZL - Bristol Pegasus VIII
Horsepower (hp): 680
Max Speed (km/h): 350
Armament: 3 x 7.92 mm 700kg
Crew:3
Service Ceiling (m): 7500
Max Range (km):1260
----------------------------
LWS -6 Zubr (Bomber)
Engine:2 x PZL - Bristol Pegasus VIII
Horsepower (hp):680
Max Speed (km/h):380
Armament: 6 x 7.92 1000kg
Crew:4
Service Ceiling (m): 8000
Max Range (km): 1250
------------------------------
PZL P.37B Los (Bomber)
Engine:2 x PZL - Bristol Pegasus
Horsepower (hp): 925 (each)
Max Speed (km/h): 445
Armament:3 x 7.92
Crew:4
Service Ceiling (m): 6000
Max Range (km): 2600
------------------------------
RWD -14 Czapla (Recon)
Engine: PZL G-126B
Horsepower (hp): 470
Max Speed (km/h): 245
Armament: 2 x 7.92
Crew:2
Service Ceiling (m): 5000
Max Range (km): 580
-----------------------------
Lublin R-XIIID (Don't actually know how to say it in English its something like Military Cooperation)
Engine:Lorraine - Dietrich
Horsepower (hp): 650
Max Speed (km/h): 195
Armament: 1 x 7.92
Crew:2
Service Ceiling (m): 4450
Max Range (km): 600
----------------------------
PZL M-26 Iskierka (Trainer)
Engine: Franklin - PZL F6A-350C1
Horsepower (hp): 205
Max Speed (km/h):270
Armament: 1x 7.92
Crew:2
Service Ceiling (m): (?)
Max Range (km): (?)

There were about
30 PZL P.7a
136 PZL P.11c
36 PZL P.37b
42 Lublin R-XIII
130 PZL P.23
21 RWD-14
41 PWD-8
and 9 Fokker VIIB/3m

During the Polland campaign Luftwaffe lost 285 aircrafts
and only th 40% of the 263 damaged aircraft repeired to operational status.
Polish airforce lost 333 aircraft 260 of which due to enemy activities
Only 25 military aircraft were detroyed on the ground.
More than 30 Polish aircraft were shot down by friendly antiaircraft fire
There were 14 german aircrafts shot down and another 31 Polish aircraft shot down.
And the first offensive operation in german territory took place at 2 September 1939 when a P.23 threw eight bombs of 50 kg in a railway facility (I can't write the name of the place because
I have it in greek and don't have a chance writing it correctly in english)


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## loomaluftwaffe (Jan 31, 2006)

did the jastrab get into service?


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## v2 (Feb 1, 2006)

We hadn't any PZL P-50 in service in 1939... Only two or three prototypes were in tests...

Here is a photo:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=12299


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## loomaluftwaffe (Feb 3, 2006)

enough to shoot down a stuka dumb enough to attack a nimble little fighter


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## rebel8303 (Feb 4, 2006)

there was little experience and a little time for reaction for Polish airmen to defend the german attack. I think that the planes were quiet good


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 5, 2006)

I dont know about that. Just about everyone knew that the Germans were going to attack, they just did not know when. Even England and France said they would defend an attack on Poland by Germany before Germany attacked.

The Aircraft that Poland used were outdated and inferior to the Germans aircraft.

Now having said that the Polish Airforce fought bravely and well with they had.


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## v2 (Feb 7, 2006)

loomaluftwaffe said:


> did the jastrab get into service?



At the end of the thirties, Poland was desperately looking for a new fighter in order to replace its old PZL P11 C. Tired of waiting for the Morane Saulnier 406, or the Hawker Hurricane promised by her allies, the Polish Air Force told engineer Wsiewolod Jakimiuk to conceive a single seat fighter having performances similar to those equipping the Air forces of other countries. Jakimiuk built the PZL P-50 Jastrzab (Hawk) from the general data of the P-35, powering the aircraft with an English built 840 HP radial engine Bristol Mercury. With an atmosphere of progressively deteriorating relationship with nazi Germany, the plane came too late to reach operational status. When Germany invaded Poland, the first production planes were still on the assembly line. The prototype, itself, was shot down by a Polish anti-aircraft battery as the test pilot Jerzy Widowsky tried to shelter it in Lwow. Very few documents about this plane remain today, and its story is still widely unknown.


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## loomaluftwaffe (Feb 16, 2006)

too bad, anyways, a copy of the P-35 will still get hacked apart by 109s, but most of the luftwaffe were stukas, pencils, heinkels, and some zestorers and 109s


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## Aggie08 (May 12, 2006)

"More manoeverable than a French soldier on the run."

That's gotta be the funniest thing i've heard all day, haha.

Yeah the p11 is a great little plane.


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