# Unusual Bf 109s



## Njaco (Sep 29, 2010)

Collected a few pics of unusual Bf 109s from the net for a while now and wanted to post. Some you may have seen before but others are unique. Unless noted by copyright, sources unknown.

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## Njaco (Sep 29, 2010)

and some pics of Bf 109 trainers from thomas genth

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## seesul (Sep 29, 2010)

I´ve never seen that one with wide gear before.


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## Wayne Little (Sep 29, 2010)

Good stuff Chris!


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## Gnomey (Sep 29, 2010)

seesul said:


> I've never seen that one with wide gear before.



Me neither. Good stuff Chris, thanks for sharing.


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## Thorlifter (Sep 29, 2010)

I hadn't either. Is it just me or is where the landing struts attach to the wing REALLY close to the front edge of the wing. I'm sure it has to do with where the reinforcing spars are.


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 29, 2010)

Very cool, thanks for posting.


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## bobbysocks (Sep 29, 2010)

Thorlifter said:


> I hadn't either. Is it just me or is where the landing struts attach to the wing REALLY close to the front edge of the wing. I'm sure it has to do with where the reinforcing spars are.



yeah it is pretty close to the leading edge and appears to retract kind of diagonally back. i had to stare long and hard at that one to see if it was a photoshopped deal or not. looks real enough.


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## BombTaxi (Sep 29, 2010)

I had read somewhere (probably on here), that experiments were made in fitting wider-track gear to the 109, to improve it's difficult ground handling characteristics. I had never seen s pic of one though.

Also, what is the one in the first pic? It appears to be on some kind of steam catapult?


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## Airframes (Sep 29, 2010)

Great stuff Chris. I'd only ever seen 3-view drawings of the wide-track gear before. The one in the first pic appears to be a '109D, undergoing catapult-launch trials, for possible ship-board use, before the carrier Graf Zeppelin would be ready.


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## BombTaxi (Sep 29, 2010)

I thought as much Terry. But surely the 109 would be of little use as a ship-borne a/c. It was much to short-legged to be an observation plane, not to mention the fact it was single-seat and could not be recovered. And I can't see the Germans having any need for a CAM-type aircraft to protect shipping either. Seems a bit pointless to me?


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## imalko (Sep 29, 2010)

Great set of pictures there Chris. I did see the one of Bf 109 with wide undercarriage, but can't remember where. If you don't mind me hijacking your thread for a bit, I would like to contribute with few more photos of unusual Bf 109 (source HTmodel special):

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## Matt308 (Sep 29, 2010)

Great pics. So when is Airframes gonna build that trainer version. Seems right up your alley!!


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## Airframes (Sep 29, 2010)

He He! I've been thinking about that for some time Matt. Also thought of doing the two-seat Buchon, used for filming in the BoB movie - _much _nicer canopies!!
EDIT: BT, I believe the idea was as a stop-gap, until the Graf Zeppelin came into service (which it didn't, as we know). The idea being it could operate within recovery range of a land base, where a conventional, land-based fighter, would lack the range for a round trip, similar to the original concept of the Hurricat. I'd need to check further, but I think it was also part of the overall trials, testing catapult launch requirements, including what might, or might not, be needed for the Graf Zeppelin.


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## imalko (Sep 29, 2010)

I've been digging through some of my folders and finally found another picture and some info on the Bf 109 with wide landing gear (I knew I had it somewhere)... The aircraft is Bf 109 V31, originally a Bf 109F-1 airframe (Wr.Nr. 5642), used for testing the wide track main landing gear and semi-retractable ventral radiator (as intended for Me 309). Source of the pictures unknown.

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## The Basket (Sep 29, 2010)

The Bf 109T would have operated as a naval fighter in exactly the same way as the Seafire.

I like the wide undercarriage...very Mustangy.

But like other 109 trials with bubble canopies...didn't go anywhere. Should have.


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## Njaco (Sep 29, 2010)

Go for it Imalko!

and anybody else have pics, go ahead and post! I've had these floating around and decided they would make a great conversation piece.


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## beaupower32 (Sep 30, 2010)




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## otftch (Sep 30, 2010)

Great Pics. Does anyone have a side view of that "V" tailed 109 ?
Ed


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## ccheese (Sep 30, 2010)

You guys amaze me with what you can come up with !!

Good pic's, all..

Charles


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 30, 2010)

Did anybody ever figure out what that Bf 109 was that had a pipe running from the bottom of the nose to the tale?


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## ccheese (Sep 30, 2010)

Now all we need is a bf-109 on floats. Not ski's..... floats !! 

Where is Clave when you need him ???

Charles


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## beaupower32 (Sep 30, 2010)

ccheese said:


> Now all we need is a bf-109 on floats. Not ski's..... floats !!
> 
> 
> Charles


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 30, 2010)

Nice!


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## Njaco (Sep 30, 2010)

A couple more......


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## Civettone (Oct 1, 2010)

That's a Bf 109 dummy, a Bf 109T and a Me 209-II.

The Bf 109T / Me 155 is an interesting example.

Kris


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## N4521U (Oct 1, 2010)

I like that "V" tail doctor killer!!!!!!!!!!!


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## imalko (Oct 1, 2010)

How about this one - Bf 109X equipped with BMW radial engine...


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## Civettone (Oct 1, 2010)

What I remember of the V-tail is that it gave a modest speed increase but the rudder became slightly less effective. Not worth the change...

The Bf 109X supposed to have excellent flight characteristics. IMO they should have built this instead of the Fw 190. It would have siimplified production. Though in the end the Fw 190 turned out to have more development potential.

Kris


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## Gnomey (Oct 1, 2010)

Nice shots! BF-109X reminds me of the Zero.


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 1, 2010)

Yea, it really looks like a completely different plane, only thing that looks like the 109 is the landing gear.


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## Civettone (Oct 2, 2010)

Wings, rear fuselage and tail section seems to be standard Bf 109 material...
Front cowling and new cockpit though. 

Me-109X

A lot of people are negative towards this aircraft but if the Ki-61 could be turned into a Ki-100 then I think this puts the Bf 109X in a different light.

Kris


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## N4521U (Oct 2, 2010)

The "V" tail was So less effective that the V tailed Bonanza could Not recover from a spin!?
But the Straight tailed Bonanza, now there is a plane that will do it all. My flight instructor had one. The wings never flexed in a roll........... I loved flying that plane.


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## ccheese (Oct 4, 2010)

Found this in my Nov/Dec issue of Warbirds International. They have a big story on the Spanish built bf-109's
[actually Hispano HA.1112-MIL "Buchon"]. This is one of only two dual control trainers built. They even have one
modified to look like a P-51, used in the movie "Patton". According to the article there are 17 flying "Buchons, six
that will taxi, but not fly, and four sitting around as either static or parts spares. 

Charles


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## Njaco (Oct 4, 2010)

Great pic!!


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## Civettone (Oct 4, 2010)

The most interesting thing about the Spanish Bf 109s is that they were retrofitted with wing fences!





Kris


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## imalko (Oct 5, 2010)

ccheese said:


> ... They even have one modified to look like a P-51, used in the movie "Patton"...



You mean these? 8)


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## Bernhart (Oct 5, 2010)

interesting look


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## Gnomey (Oct 5, 2010)

That certainly looks strange! Surely though there was an actually P-51 they could of used? But then again most of the tanks in Patton where done up in a similar way to that Buchon, so it isn't that surprising . Still not a bad movie.


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## Pong (Oct 5, 2010)

Weird...Though the 109 with the wide gear and v shaped tail is the most interesting.


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## Njaco (Oct 6, 2010)

Charles, I found one!!!

plus a couple more....


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## Wayne Little (Oct 9, 2010)

8)


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## zoomar (Oct 19, 2010)

The "Bf-109X" shown in these photos is certainly an interesting experiment, but just because the Japanese and Russians could adopt in-line designs to successfully take radials (Ki-61/100 and Lagg3/La5) doesn't mean a radial-engined Bf-109 would have been as good as or better than the designed-from-scratch Fw-190. 
This plane is almost more interesting to me because if features an all-round cockpit canopy. Unless I'm mistaken, this is the only German Bf-109 prototype that ever made that obvious improvement. I wonder why. Also, I wonder how "official" the "X" subtype designator is, Wasn't this plane also assigned a "V" prototype number?


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## Njaco (Oct 19, 2010)

almost all prototypes for German aircraft were desgnated with a 'V'.


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## Civettone (Oct 20, 2010)

it can be called 109X V-##

Kris


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## Njaco (Dec 28, 2010)

a few more interesting Bf 109s including more 209s and 309....

(_sources unknown_)


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## Airframes (Dec 29, 2010)

interesting stuff Chris. Any info on the checked and striped '109s? Looks like they're in allied hands, post war (Note wing on right, with roundel below), possibly in Denmark.


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## Njaco (Dec 29, 2010)

Nothing on those. And I made a mistake - 2d pic I believe is actually a Bv 155.


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## bobbysocks (Dec 29, 2010)

or were they marked like that for everyone to form up on? kinda like what they did with bizarre painted 17s and 24s...


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## imalko (Dec 29, 2010)

Airframes said:


> interesting stuff Chris. Any info on the checked and striped '109s? Looks like they're in allied hands, post war (Note wing on right, with roundel below), possibly in Denmark.



Terry, I believe these Bf 109s are post war Finnish machines. Fancy paint work might be for some kind of maneuvers or something like that...


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## Airframes (Dec 29, 2010)

Maybe, but the style looks more like an allied form. The aircraft wing on the right certainly has a roundel beneath it, and I vaguely recall some aircraft being used for target simulation for filming, or something similar, with similar paint schemes for telemetary. I suggested Denmark as there was a large collection point for 'enemy' aircraft there, immediately after the war, I think either at Kastrup, Vaerlose or Aalborg, and the style of buildings looks like those places.
EDIT: Crossing posts. Thanks Igor, I believe you're right, and I thought I'd seen the scheme somewhere! Also explains the style of architecture!


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## Wayne Little (Dec 30, 2010)

8)


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## beaupower32 (Dec 30, 2010)

I thought some were painted up like that for air racing, but I dont remember where I read it at.


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## norab (Dec 30, 2010)

more info here on the 109 racer here

Messerschmitt Bf 109G-6 Finnish Racer by Chris Sherland (Trumpeter 1/24)


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## Gnomey (Dec 30, 2010)

Interesting stuff Chris!


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## Njaco (May 3, 2011)

another uniquely painted 109.


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## vikingBerserker (May 3, 2011)

Nice!


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## Crimea_River (May 3, 2011)

I think our son Harrison posted that one a while back. He was going to build a model of that IIRC.


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## Gnomey (May 3, 2011)

Nice find!


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## Njaco (May 4, 2011)

and.....


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## vikingBerserker (May 4, 2011)

Nice, I like the bottom one.


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## GrauGeist (May 4, 2011)

I have a pic of a Me309 that doesn't seem to be very common:





Not sure when this happened, but must have been during it's testing stages and unfortunately, I've had this image for a while now, and don't remember any details about what's going on


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## GregP (Jun 19, 2014)

I've always liked the top one Njaco. Wonder how the DB-engined Spitfire flew? Pilot report said fine, but it was a German, not a regular Spitfire pilot, who flew it.

Good Me 309 pic, Graugeist. I havn't seen that one before.


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## Milosh (Jun 20, 2014)

That is the Me309V-1 after a nose gear collapse.


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## Njaco (Jun 20, 2014)

another shot of the Bf 109X with radial engine....

.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 20, 2014)

Bf109X had the BMW801 (and a cowl similar to a Fw190), the one pictured above, is the Bf109 V-21 fitted with a P&W Twin Wasp radial.

*Edit*
Now that I'm looking at that photo here on the computer, it may be the X, not the V-21, because I don't see the horizontal stabilizer braces that were on the V-21 airframe, but at the same time, I don't see the bulge in the lower portion of the cowling that was apparent on the X version.


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## Njaco (Jun 21, 2014)

The site that I got the pic from said it was the P&W 109.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 21, 2014)

The problem with alot of the prototypes, is that the photos are usually obscure or non-existant and in many cases, become confused with cross-posting over time.

Bf109 V-21 (WkNmr 1770) P&W Twin Wasp project was built in 1939 on a Bf109E airframe and later became a Bf109F-0 pre production test frame.

The Bf109X project was later, and is surrounded by information gaps. From what I understand, the RLM nixed the project because of the demand for the 801 for the Fw190 and Do17

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## stona (Jun 25, 2014)

Bf 109 V1 with a Rolls Royce Kestrel engine, which just looks wrong (upside down) 






Bf 109 V13 ready for a world speed record attempt. It's specially prepared DB 601 engine had about double the horse power (1,660) of the V1 !






Cheers

Steve


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## stona (Jun 25, 2014)

Doh


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## GrauGeist (Jun 25, 2014)

Ever notice that V1 bears a resemblance to a P-40 with that radiator intake and cowl flaps?


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## stona (Jun 25, 2014)

GrauGeist said:


> Ever notice that V1 bears a resemblance to a P-40 with that radiator intake and cowl flaps?



I hadn't, but I can see what you mean. 

The arrangement on the V1 was only ever an interim step towards the Jumo/DB installation of course.

Cheers

Steve


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## Njaco (Jan 28, 2015)

This pic was found on this site....

Anything But Wheels > Vintage Wings of Canada

with this caption: 



> A Messerschmitt Bf-109 had many different variants. One was the Bf-109W, a variant on floats of which there is little photographic record and this unknown variant on skis. Very little is to be found about this aircraft, so anyone with better photos or info is encourage to email us. Photo via ww2aircraft.net



From what I can see, the markings under the wing look like possible Finnish markings? Anybody have any info?

I also found this: Bf 109 with ski undercarriage - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

but this pic appears to be an Emil and not a friedrich.


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## Njaco (Jan 28, 2015)

also found this:

Limited experiments were performed early in the war with a Bf-109E-8 fitted with skis for winter operations, but the skis caused a performance penalty, and regular production Messerschmitts had no great troubles in using wheels under winter conditions. The idea went no further.

The Messerschmitt Bf-109


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## bobbysocks (Jan 28, 2015)

the Finns had skis for just about everything. that 109E in post 73 looks a lot like the ski set up i saw on one of their fokkers...

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## Njaco (Mar 1, 2015)

Me-609. Cool model rendition....


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## Denniss (Mar 1, 2015)

Not really, P-82 with fake 109 front and gunpods


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## GrauGeist (Mar 1, 2015)

That actually looks very close to the Me609 plans...

The F-82 looked quite a bit different.

Some comparisons:

The *Me609*





The *Bf109Z*





And the *F-82*


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## bobbysocks (Mar 1, 2015)

that nose gear set up would be interesting to taxi....wonder why they did keep it a tail dragger?


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