# Anybody else hear about this?



## RabidAlien (Jun 10, 2008)

Directors Spike Lee and Clint Eastwood are (currently) in a name-calling battle over whether or not blacks played a significant role in the Iwo Jima battle. Meaning no offense to anyone here....but from the little I know, I think Spike Lee needs to go brush up on his history.

Spike Lee gets in Clint Eastwood's line of fire | News | guardian.co.uk Film


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## Messy1 (Jun 10, 2008)

I agree. Spike Lee is either a total moron, or he is just looking to stir up some controversy and take in some free press.

I love the last line of the article. 

"I'm not going to make Nelson Mandela a white guy."

Damn funny.


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## ToughOmbre (Jun 10, 2008)

Don't know if I would go so far as to call Spike Lee a racist, but for sure he is a *jerk*.

As Clint said, the focus of the movie was the flag raisers. What was he supposed to do, put in a separate scene for every Marine ethnicity, race, color, creed and national origin?

Hey Spike.....

*STFU!*

TO


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## wilbur1 (Jun 10, 2008)

I agree TO


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## Freebird (Jun 10, 2008)

I know the flag raisers were all white, but were there any scenes of the battle in the movie? Were there blacks that did play a role in taking the island? Is Spike complaining because none of the flag-raisers are black, or because there are no blacks in the movie at all?


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## evangilder (Jun 10, 2008)

Here you go, Spike...


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 10, 2008)

I read this article this morning - Spike Lee is an idiot. There was a well written article about this - there were anywhere between 700 and 1000 black soldiers at Iwo. Most of them were in support roles but when compared to the invasion force their numbers were very small.

What you have is lee trying to re-create history for the benefit of political correctness. Too bad Eastwood didn't have the chance to punch Lee in his face!!!!


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## Freebird (Jun 10, 2008)

FLYBOYJ said:


> I read this article this morning - Spike Lee is an idiot. There was a well written article about this - there were anywhere between 700 and 1000 black soldiers at Iwo. Most of them were in support roles but when compared to the invasion force their numbers were very small.
> 
> What you have is lee trying to re-create history for the benefit of political correctness. Too bad Eastwood didn't have the chance to punch Lee in his face!!!!




Maybe Spike should just make his own "black" WWII epic, with a black Hitler, black Roosevelt, black Tojo, negro Nazi's....


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## ccheese (Jun 10, 2008)

freebird said:


> I know the flag raisers were all white........




Actually, FB, you are incorrect. One was an American Indian.....

Charles


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## Freebird (Jun 10, 2008)

ccheese said:


> Actually, FB, you are incorrect. One was an American Indian.....
> 
> Charles



OOps sorry! I guess he just looked white in the pics....


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## starling (Jun 10, 2008)

yes,i agree.i saw this story on fox news.it was on brit humes evening slot.i must admit however,that i enjoyed lee,s film..inside man..yours,starling.


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## Freebird (Jun 10, 2008)

freebird said:


> *Maybe Spike should just make his own "black" WWII epic, with a black Hitler, black Roosevelt, black Tojo, negro Nazi's....*



I suppose the "Red Guard" would have to be black too...


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## ToughOmbre (Jun 10, 2008)

Comes down to this for me.....

6,825 Marines died on Iwo, and from what I can research, two (2) of them were black (from the 8th Marine Ammunition Company).

I salute those two Marines as I would any other who has served.

But Spike, you ain't getting your politically correct "equal billing" in "Flags" for that!

I agree with Joe, Clint should have punched him in the face!

TO


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## Thorlifter (Jun 10, 2008)

Now that would be a cool fight. Spike has the youth on his side, but Clint is a fitness FREAK. Besides, Clint could deliver some of his tag lines.........

"You boys going to pull those pistols or whistle dixie?'
"Do you feel lucky, punk?"
"Dying aint much of a living, boy!"


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 10, 2008)

freebird said:


> I suppose the "Red Guard" would have to be black too...



OUTSTANDING!!!!!!


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## Freebird (Jun 10, 2008)

freebird said:


> Maybe Spike should just make his own "black" WWII epic, with a black Hitler, black Roosevelt, black Tojo, negro Nazi's....





FLYBOYJ said:


> OUTSTANDING!!!!!!




   

I suppose if the dialogue was in "Ebonics" it would have to have english subtitles too....


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## RabidAlien (Jun 10, 2008)

*LOL* Okay, at least I know I wasn't the only one who was thinking he was pulling the "racist" card simply to be a prick....or because he was an idiot. I knew that the Army had started putting all-black units on the line very late in the war (instead of just in support roles...although, in one account of the Battle of the Bulge, one of the guys in the 101st had his foxhole near some "colored" artillery unit, and they all shared what meager supplies they had with each other, supported each other unhesitatingly during battles, and even mentioned that the black troops picked up rifles and gave a very good accounting during one skirmish...."Seven Roads to Hell" by Donald R. Burgette). I wasn't sure, off the top of my rather empty head, whether there were any black infantry units at Iwo, but the support troops did a bang-up job no matter where they were. However...."Flags of Our Fathers" was about the six flag raisers. "Letters from Iwo Jima" was from the Japanese side. Neither of which had integrated companies at that time. Spike....you're a moron. History happened, don't change it. And you weren't there, so we owe you nothing. As said before, I salute _any_ serviceman, no matter what his race (or, on occasion, no matter which side he was on). If Spike Lee had served his country, that'd be another matter. He just wants attention.


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## Matt308 (Jun 10, 2008)

Lee is a racist and a bigot. Like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, he is nothing more than a race pimp. Pushing revisionist history and threats of reparations in order to further his own personal gains. May he and the other two effers rot in hell for holding back a whole race of people with real potential.


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## RabidAlien (Jun 10, 2008)

Amen.


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## Njaco (Jun 10, 2008)

Hear, hear!!


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## DOUGRD (Jun 10, 2008)

Matt308 said:


> Lee is a racist and a bigot. Like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, he is nothing more than a race pimp. Pushing revisionist history and threats of reparations in order to further his own personal gains. May he and the other two effers rot in hell for holding back a whole race of people with real potential.



Matt you hit that nail right on the head. He is nothing more than a black racist. As for the color of the troops at Iwo Jima, there was only one color on that island and it was Marine green!


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## drgondog (Jun 10, 2008)

freebird said:


> I know the flag raisers were all white, but were there any scenes of the battle in the movie? Were there blacks that did play a role in taking the island? Is Spike complaining because none of the flag-raisers are black, or because there are no blacks in the movie at all?



Ira Hayes was an Indian - and it screwed up his life forever.. no blacks at the top of Surabachi


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## A4K (Jun 11, 2008)

Aside from the race issue, Clint needs to check up on his history too - the original picture of the flag raising on Iwo Jima was a fairly mundane scene with only one soldier sitting idly on the ground keeping watch, while a number of soldiers quietly raise the flag behind him, on a mast already in place. It is obvious the battle is over, and they're not expecting enemy fire.

The 'struggling together to upright the masted flag pole' is a posed shot and was taken later to better symbolize the struggle of the battle.


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## Wildcat (Jun 11, 2008)

Lee's an idiot! If anyone bothers to look there IS a scene showing two negro's onboard the assault ship, when the marines are been briefed.


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## ToughOmbre (Jun 11, 2008)

A4K said:


> Aside from the race issue, Clint needs to check up on his history too - the original picture of the flag raising on Iwo Jima was a fairly mundane scene with only one soldier sitting idly on the ground keeping watch, while a number of soldiers quietly raise the flag behind him, on a mast already in place. It is obvious the battle is over, and they're not expecting enemy fire.
> 
> The 'struggling together to upright the masted flag pole' is a posed shot and was taken later to better symbolize the struggle of the battle.



A little off the subject, but the second flag raising was not a "posed" shot, and was not "taken later to better symbolize the struggle of the battle", but to put a larger flag on Suribachi. You may need to check up on your history as well.

TO


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## A4K (Jun 11, 2008)

Are you sure, TO? There was an article published in an Austrian magazine in 1999 on the most symbolic or influential photographs of the 20th century, which included the pictures and information I mentioned.


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## ToughOmbre (Jun 11, 2008)

A4K,

There are a lot more credible sources than an Austrian magazine article from 1999. Actually there is film footage of the second flag raising that shows the flag going up. Joe Rosenthal was standing right next to the guy with the movie camera and snapped a picture. Going frame by frame of the movie, it is possible to freeze a frame and identify the exact moment when Rosenthal took his picture. 

Not a posed picture for Joe to take, just an incredibly lucky shot at the best possible moment. Clint Eastwood did a good job in "Flags" to accurately portray the scene.

BTW, there were a number of posed shots of the Marines celebrating at the top of Mt Suribachi *after* the flag raising.

TO


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## A4K (Jun 11, 2008)

The article came from a magazine called 'Profil' which is a political, historical, and technological magazine, not just some 'woman's weekly'. What you say sounds believable, but that magazine sure dosen't print tripe...and if the picture concerned is the immortalized one of five or so Marines struggling to push up the US flag, then we're talking about the same thing...

Do any of our Austrian friends have that Profil ??


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## marshall (Jun 11, 2008)

Where I can find what exactly Spike Lee said?


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## RabidAlien (Jun 11, 2008)

Heh. Yeah, there's been a lot of controversy over the years as to whether or not "the flag picture" was real or staged. History does agree, though, that the picture in question was not of the original flag raising, as was inaccurately printed when the photo first came out, but was in fact of the second raising, which came about because someone wanted the original flag to take back to Marine Corps Headquarters in Washington, and because they wanted a larger flag that would be easier to see from anywhere on the island. Joe Rosenthal accompanied the platoon carrying the second flag to the top of Suribachi, met another photographer on the way down, and nearly turned around when he found out that "the momentous occasion" was already over, but decided to continue when the other photographer mentioned "but there's a great view of the harbor from up there". He happened to be in the right spot at the right time. The flagpole was not already planted in the ground due to the fact that the only pole they could find that would be tall enough to hold the larger flag was rather heavy, and since fighting was still going on in and around Suribachi, nobody really wanted to climb up the thing to tie the flag on. So it was attached on the ground, and the guys raised the pole with the flag already on it. Later on, he posed a bunch of Marines around the pole for the usual "gung-ho" shot with everybody cheering.

Rosenthal's camera had gotten wet getting off the landing craft that morning, so when he turned in the film, he didn't even know if anything on the roll would come out. Only three or four shots DID survive, and they were AP-wired back to the US before he even saw them. When he got back to the US, someone asked him if "the photo had been posed". Thinking that maybe the one he took the time to set up and frame was the one that had come out, instead of the "one in a million" snap as the flag was going up, he said that yes, he had posed the pic. By this time, he still hadn't seen the Photo. So....folks have always believed that The Photo was staged. 

Staged....not staged....the photo is an incredible picture, and will forever remain one of the greatest images from the 20th Century.

And Spike Lee is still an idiot.


Attached pics are:
1) First flag raising on Suribachi
2) Taking down first flag, second flag has already been raised
3) The Photo, second flag-raising
4) staged "gung-ho" photo after second flag raising (Ira Hayes on far left, sitting)


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## ToughOmbre (Jun 11, 2008)

Your description of the events on Iwo is accurate RA.

And as I said before, Clint nailed the historical facts perfectly in the film.

Spike, do us a favor and stick to watching the Knicks play badly.

TO


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## A4K (Jun 11, 2008)

Yep, that's what I was talking about. Thanks for those pictures and additional information RA !


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## RabidAlien (Jun 11, 2008)

No prob, A4K! 


Now....to find FULL SIZE pics of those thumbnails....*g*


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## seamist (Jun 27, 2008)

I just see it as a typical scenario,where a person wants to cause trouble,and imply some kind of predudice is involved.spike lee does it all the time for the * black cause *,as peter tatchell,the uk gay activist does it for the * gay cause *.It is all so one individual can steal the glory of another,and have their faces on t.v and magazines,being glorified as a new media * hero *.


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## timshatz (Jun 27, 2008)

A4K said:


> the original picture of the flag raising on Iwo Jima was a fairly mundane scene with only one soldier sitting idly on the ground keeping watch, while a number of soldiers quietly raise the flag behind him, on a mast already in place. It is obvious the battle is over, and they're not expecting enemy fire.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Actually there is more to the first raising as well. The unit that went up left early in the morning when Suribachi wasn't secure with orders to put a flag on top. They hiked to the top, expecting to be ambushed all the way but it never happened. They got to the top, looked around and found a bit of pipe from a water collection system that had been destroyed, tied the flag to it and put it up. Pretty mundane event. But what is not said is right after the flag went up, the Japanese realized:
> ...


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## A4K (Jul 1, 2008)

After seeing RA's extra pics, and reading his and your info, I agree with you there, Tim. 
(Thanks to you too for the extra info!  )


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## Messy1 (Jul 1, 2008)

I agree. That's a cool bit of info I had not heard before! Thanks!


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## RabidAlien (Jul 2, 2008)

Read "Flags of Our Fathers", by James Bradley. Its about the three surviving men from The Photograph, about their lives and how they went on after the war (but, as you may expect, in much greater detail than the movie was able to portray). There is at least one chapter in there dedicated to Joe Rosenthal and all the crap he went through with people accusing him of staging that shot, and accusing him of claiming it was the original flag raising, etc. Alot of that info was new to me, too, so I did some more research online, and found out that yes, its true. So, I recommend that book to anyone!


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## JugBR (Jul 2, 2008)

like brazil, united states is a multi-cultural and young country and also like brazil, usa does have problems with racism. i believe spike lee is wrong and right in part. he is right to make a film about the black american comunity at ww2, wich is an very unknow history for many people. but hes wrong issuing a movie made by another person, instead just analize it or make a critic without compare with yours movie.


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## RabidAlien (Jul 2, 2008)

Yep. Nobody has denied the black community's input in WW2. Its just kind of hard to make a movie about stevedores or cooks, which, unfortunately, was about the only roles they were allowed during the War. I know there was a combat outfit in the Marines, and at least one artillery unit in Europe (wanting to say I recall an infantry unit, as well?)...maybe someone should research and write a script about them. Nowadays, the average Joe on the street wants to see a war movie with lots of planes, guns, explosions, and nekkid wimmin. So anything else, other than the "experimental" combat units, would have to be more of a documentary than an actual Hollywood blockbuster. 

I will still, to this day, shake the hand of any man or woman who has served their country, during war or during peace, at any time....black, white, Asian, Hispanic, etc. You served. You get my respect. End o story.

And yet again...Spike Lee is an idiot.


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## JugBR (Jul 2, 2008)

RabidAlien said:


> Nowadays, the average Joe on the street wants to see a war movie with lots of planes, guns, explosions, and nekkid wimmin.



thats why i believe the old movies are better than the new ones. movies like apocalypse now, full metal jacket, tora tora tora!, you could feel some reality, you could feel some energy, some intensity. today its all about computer graphis, noting real, just like you see in ps2, it sucks. i still believe the average joe would like some quality and some realism, the problem is that everything now is about computer graphics, comics, explosions, ninjas... it just isnt the real world...

i like that movie about battle of britain, its a great movie, you can feel the bf-109 really authentic, theres a clip in youtube of this movie and some scenes of pearl harbor(aces high - iron maiden plaiyng), the new one about pearl harbor(tora tora tora! is much better), you can really see the diference between the shots of battle of britain and the newer movie. it lost intensity instead of some close shots, some impossible shots and some inacurated action. also ben assfleck dumb face !


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FX_ZmCzo6k_


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## Njaco (Jul 2, 2008)

That was the point in "Pearl harbor" when I started to get dissgusted, Jug. The shaking camera was awful. Couldn't see any action or the planes!


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