# Fires in California



## syscom3 (Aug 31, 2009)

I thought some of you would like to see this link that gives a good overview of the fire that's burning in the mountains above Los Angeles.

InciWeb the Incident Information System: Station Fire

Station IC - Google Maps


What makes this fire so unusual is the complete lack of wind. The smoke is not blowing horizontally, but straight up.


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## davparlr (Aug 31, 2009)

We've been watching the smoke billowing above the mountains for several days. In 30 years I have never seen such a sight. Reminds me of a volcano or two.

Pray for the victims and firemen. We have alreadly lost two firemen.


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## syscom3 (Aug 31, 2009)

Here's a pic from yesterday, and one I took a few minutes ago. I am approx 30 miles SSE of the fire.

The color of the smoke ring at the base is a dirty gray. It sort of reminds me of the cloud formed from a small nuke.


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## B-17engineer (Aug 31, 2009)

The fires are threatening 6,000 homes


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Aug 31, 2009)

I've heard they're pretty bad. Stay safe, anybody who's in California.


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## GrauGeist (Aug 31, 2009)

I know it's a weird feeling to see fire in the hills and not have a Santa Ana blowing. It happens once in a while, and hopefully it'll stay calm like this so the fire crews can get an upper hand on them.


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 31, 2009)

My wife took a job in LA and she's been saying it's getting a tad on the smoky side on her commute.


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## syscom3 (Aug 31, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> I know it's a weird feeling to see fire in the hills and not have a Santa Ana blowing. It happens once in a while, and hopefully it'll stay calm like this so the fire crews can get an upper hand on them.



I'd like to see it continue to burn so we dont have an out of control fire when the winds blow.

Decades of misguided fire suppression have finally caught up with us. Its time to pay the piper.


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## GrauGeist (Aug 31, 2009)

syscom3 said:


> I'd like to see it continue to burn so we dont have an out of control fire when the winds blow.
> 
> Decades of misguided fire suppression have finally caught up with us. Its time to pay the piper.


I agree...one of the major probs is the Forest Service's constant injunctions from "E" groups that keep them from doing any real forest management.

We're really paying for it up here, as you've seen recently.

But like I've said before, the hills will always burn. The HUGE problem with that is the idiots down there that keep building right up into the areas that have ALWAYS burned in the summer, not to mention building in areas that have ALWAYS had land/mud slide in the winter (in many cases, it's both).

Then when it happens, they act all surprised and get angry, yell crap about global warming or how (local/state/federal) government should do a better job protecting taxpayers. And then go right back to the same spot and rebuild.

The local indians who lived in the Los Angeles area before the Spaniards arrived, called it the valley of smoke. 400 years later and people still haven't figured that out!


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## evangilder (Aug 31, 2009)

The La Canada/Flintridge areas have not had anything burn in 30 years, so there is a lot to burn up there, and it's burning like crazy. The fire department doesn't think they'll have a handle on it for 2 more weeks! It's pretty smoky at my office in Woodland Hills, and that is quite a distance from the fire. Over 100,000 acres have burned in this one so far. Last night, it was at 45,000, so it's growing rapidly.


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## GrauGeist (Aug 31, 2009)

Is your place is safe from the fire, Eric?


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## evangilder (Sep 1, 2009)

Yeah, I'm in Ventura County. We have had some smoke when the wind shifts, but otherwise we're safe from this one. The smoke gets worse in the valley, where I work. But even then, the fires are still a good distance away this time.

The good news is that we have a hurricane in the Pacific heading towards Baja that will likely bring us some rain. That might help if it gets toward the fire lines. Lord knows we could use a break from the heat. It's been triple digits for a week. The firefighters are earning their pay this week.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 1, 2009)

Good news about the homestead being out of harm's way.

Yeah, the smoke and heat is not only oppressive, it's a dangerous combination.

Our only salvation last year, was the extreme smoke (solid from June until September) actually lowered our average summer temps by almost 10 degrees.

Redding is known for it's triple digits, I've even seen it over 115°, but I'd take the heat over the smoke any day!


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## comiso90 (Sep 1, 2009)

Californians Gather To Celebrate Annual Wildfire Tradition | The Onion - America's Finest News Source


.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 1, 2009)

comiso90 said:


> Californians Gather To Celebrate Annual Wildfire Tradition | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
> 
> 
> .


LOL

Man, if that's not just about as close to the truth as you can get...


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## syscom3 (Sep 1, 2009)

Tonight's burned area is 105,000 acres. That's 164 square miles.


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## Vic Balshaw (Sep 1, 2009)

Our thoughts go out to you all in California, with the last summer horror fires of Victoria and the ones in Canberra in 2003 we feel for you. Stay safe.
8)


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## evangilder (Sep 1, 2009)

Anyone familiar with Southern California can get an idea just how big the station fire is by the map below. 

Los Angeles area fires: Mount Wilson, La Canada Flintridge, Altadena, La Crescenta, Glendale, Pasadena, Acton, Agua Dulce - Google Maps


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## evangilder (Sep 1, 2009)

To give you an idea of where I am in relationship to the fires, here is the map, shifted a bit. So you can see work is closer to the fires, but there isn't much vegetation between the fires and work, except above Chatsworth, which I can see from my office window. If it gets that far, we are in big trouble. 

The little volcano looking icon on the map on the lower right of the fire area is Mount Wilson. It is at risk and it burning would be very bad for Southern California. Radio, television and cell phone repeaters are up there along with an observatory. 
(Map by Google Maps.)


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## evangilder (Sep 1, 2009)

Mount Wilson tower cam is still up, for now.
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~obs/towercam.htm

You can see that they still have power (backup generators). The observatory there has a 60 inch telescope available for public viewing. It is more than 100 years old and was where Edwin Hubble did some of his ground-breaking work. News stations have used that camera for years to show conditions across the LA basin.


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## Torch (Sep 1, 2009)

Man this one is nasty, been thru a couple here in Colorado and it's amazing how helpless you feel sometimes. Found a quick way to grab thing was lay a blanket down and throw items on that and carry out, one trip versus many in and out of the house. Also purchased a very good safe. Also used rubber maid containers for files which we dropped off at a friends house just in case...Good luck


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## evangilder (Sep 1, 2009)

The Evergreen 747 tanker got involved yesterday too. 8)

747 Supertanker makes drops on southern California fires


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## Torch (Sep 1, 2009)

Impressive, finally they decide to use it? Think the Russians have a jumbo version also, they have offered the use of it in the past but the US govt said no...


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## davparlr (Sep 1, 2009)

Amazing close to the truth. Then those guys want the state to bail them out!


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## comiso90 (Sep 1, 2009)

davparlr said:


> Amazing close to the truth. Then those guys want the state to bail them out!



Lets hope karma doesn't get me and the hurricanes stay away from FL. 

Its does seem like a yearly ritual...

Stay tuned for the sequel *"MUDSLIDE"*..... after the fire comes the mudslide.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 1, 2009)

evangilder said:


> The Evergreen 747 tanker got involved yesterday too. 8)


We had Evergreen's DC-10 over-fly the area last year, doing a survey, but it was decided as being too risky. The Mars was almost called off due to the risks, but it remained in service here until September.


Torch said:


> Impressive, finally they decide to use it? Think the Russians have a jumbo version also, they have offered the use of it in the past but the US govt said no...


Not sure that the Feds would not allow the Russian tanker, I think it would be more along the lines of need versus cost. We have Canadian tankers assist on fires up here on occasion, matter of fact, the Mars is operated by Coulson out of B.C.


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## Erich (Sep 1, 2009)

Eric how is visibility for you folk, or is the grey/brown smut down at ground level ?

any of you guys remember what happened to us in 03 ? Bisquit/florence and dip-Sh*t fires, the largest ever in the states.

one of the stupidest cockamamy controlled fires ever in the history of mankind, due to lighting storms that caused two small fires, and due to the approx in a so-called protected area the forest servie decided to let the burn go.........idiots ! it ripped up 10,000 acres plus that evening and was totally out of control all summer into the November rainy season. over 500,000 acres was toasted.

Lets hope that whatever-or whom here in So. Cali gets caught and the fires get under control soon. I have a relative fighting in the mess right now


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## pbfoot (Sep 1, 2009)

Wouldn't be surpreised to see the CL215's and 415"s head down but there from Ontario and Quebec if they still aren't being used in British Cloumbia which has also had a bad fire season. There was I heard a small problem with some folks down there not wanting Canadian Tankers as they are not "buy american"


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## GrauGeist (Sep 1, 2009)

pbfoot said:


> Wouldn't be surpreised to see the CL215's and 415"s head down but there from Ontario and Quebec if they still aren't being used in British Cloumbia which has also had a bad fire season. There was I heard a small problem with some folks down there not wanting Canadian Tankers as they are not "buy american"


You won't hear that from us around here, pb!

Always a welcome sight to see the Canadians jumping into the fray!

Same goes for the Australian firefighters that have come over to fight fires in the past. Heck, last year, we even had some Greek firefighters out on the lines.

We're always grateful for all the help we can get and you know that a large majority of American firefighters that go abroad to help other countries with thier wildfires are West Coasters


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## comiso90 (Sep 1, 2009)

California burning: 'Angry' Station Fire inches closer to Los Angeles as two firefighters die | Mail Online


























http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...ches-closer-Los-Angeles-firefighters-die.html


.


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## RabidAlien (Sep 1, 2009)

pbfoot said:


> Wouldn't be surpreised to see the CL215's and 415"s head down but there from Ontario and Quebec if they still aren't being used in British Cloumbia which has also had a bad fire season. There was I heard a small problem with some folks down there not wanting Canadian Tankers as they are not "buy american"



Idiots sayin that are usually the ones sitting safely in their condos a hundred miles away from the action. Pop a small grass fire a mile from their doorstep, and they'll be screaming for every civilized nation on the face of the planet to save their precious arses.


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 1, 2009)

Folks, Denver is covered in haze from the California fires and from one in the south west portion of the state. I went out flying with a student in the late after noon - haze 4 to 6 miles visibility. There were times at certain altitudes we were in "the soup." Great for IFR training!


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## davparlr (Sep 1, 2009)

I wonder how much CO2 is being generated.


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## evangilder (Sep 1, 2009)

4 to 6 miles of visibility, Joe? That's damn good compared to what we have right now. Even in my neck of the woods, quite a distance from the fire, we had a blood red sunset and a lot of smoke. We are getting some falling ash at the office.

The good news is that the fire only grew another 6,000 acres today. While no small number, that is a big victory for the firefighters, who also now have 22% containment. They have cut over 50 miles of fire break and plan to do 93 more miles of it. 

It's one big bad mother, but the firefighters from all over, with the help of air support from all over the state and from Canada with the super scoopers and the Martin Mars, they are starting to make some headway. After a week+ of 100+ degree heat and firefighting, my hat goes off to the firefighters.

Mt Wilson has been the scene of a flurry of activity today with backfires and some Mars passes. Looks like they may save it after all, thankfully.


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## evangilder (Sep 1, 2009)

Great news from Mount Wilson! From the MWO site blog:


> Tuesday, 1 Sep 09, 7:21 pm PDT - Much to report! I just got off the phone calling Larry Webster's office on the mountain hoping to confirm his arrival. Instead of Larry, the phone was answered by LA County Deputy Fire Chief Jim Powers who is in charge of protection for structures at the Observatory. Wow, do I feel much better. First, Larry, Dave Jurasevich and John Harrigan arrived safely on site. When I identified myself, Chief Powers asked if I would like a briefing. You can imagine my answer. Here's what I know.
> 
> Fire fighters arrived earlier than I previously reported and by 8:00 am they had started their prep work. They began at the northeast corner of the Observatory using drip torches all along a line from that point traversing the northern perimeter to the boundary of the antenna areas. They are currently applying the same treatment to the east and southern boundaries of the site and expect to complete that this evening. These fires will clear ground debris and burn down slope with the intention of meeting any approaching fire with depleted fuel. Many of you watched the Super Scooper drop a major load of water, which was deposited downslope from the backfires and not on the Observatory grounds. That has been supplemented by other aerial tankers and helitankers for more precision dropping at crucial locations. The goal is to slow down encroaching fire, disperse it and make it more manageable.
> 
> ...


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## Heinz (Sep 2, 2009)

Keep safe guys!


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 2, 2009)

evangilder said:


> The Evergreen 747 tanker got involved yesterday too. 8)
> 
> 747 Supertanker makes drops on southern California fires



WOW, I'd heard on the news they were using 747's but I figured they were wrong.


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## magnocain (Sep 2, 2009)

> Yeah, the smoke and heat is not only oppressive, it's a dangerous combination.
> 
> Our only salvation last year, was the extreme smoke (solid from June until September) actually lowered our average summer temps by almost 10 degrees.
> 
> Redding is known for it's triple digits, I've even seen it over 115°, but I'd take the heat over the smoke any day!



True. IMO last year was worse, at least in this area. From the north bay I haven't noticed much smoke or haze.


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## Erich (Sep 2, 2009)

interesting guys, if you would google :

national forest fires and find the link at the top: the Interagency and sublink they report from the official Angeles site that the fire now is over 140,000 acres and 22 % contained..........lets hope so

you guys need some thumping rain to clear that stuff out and burn back on itself. 26 days of 100F and over here we are so surprised we have not been burnt to a cider up this way


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## syscom3 (Sep 2, 2009)

Erich, part of the problem here is decades of fire control have left us with an intolerable amount of hot burning fuel laying around.

We have to pay the devils his due on this one.

Better to let this fire clear out the brush and fuel while the wind conditions are good, than have to revisit this under Santa Ana winds that will make it impossible to control.

BTW, 140,000 acres = 218 square miles.


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 2, 2009)

Man, that's a lot of land.


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## Erich (Sep 3, 2009)

Sys

I have had relatives live in that area since the dawn of time so I know the area well.

take the hint if the fires are not out and winds change and head west you guys are screwed, we've played with this crap almost every year since I moved to So. Orygun in the 60's it is a part of life we live with heavy timber and loads upon loads of uncut brush thanks in part to an overlazy eco enviro BLM systme and stupid land owners.

my prayer is that the wind shifts and blows itself out or at least get some humidity from the Jimena poop to you south

you guys are in our thoughts


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## syscom3 (Sep 4, 2009)

Something different ... a time lapse view of the fire.

LiveLeak.com - Timelapse of California Fire as Seem from Universal Studios


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## wheelsup_cavu (Sep 4, 2009)

That's downright spooky Sys.


Wheels


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## Erich (Sep 4, 2009)

154,000 plus and rising, so is La Canada going to get fried or ? hearing nothing really on the news up in the NW territories

still have friends from long ago in Pasadena


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## evangilder (Sep 5, 2009)

Erich, this gets updated a couple of times a day:
InciWeb the Incident Information System: Station Fire

Saw some pyrocumulus clouds today again, which have been lessening. It was a reminder that things are still burning.

Over 200 square miles have burned and full containment not expected until the 15th! It is the largest fire in Los Angeles County's history.


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## Erich (Sep 5, 2009)

yes I have the incident web-site marked with it's main page and the difference in the posting of acreage burned.

sys's link to the vid reminds me of to our west years ago, the whole coastal range it appeared was glowing. the smoke was stifling. and it must be the same if you guys get a slight east to west wind down to the ground layer

lets hope the folk get the complete handle by the 15th


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## evangilder (Sep 5, 2009)

I was hoping that hurricane Jimena would bring us some rain, but it headed east into Arizona and New Mexico. We are supposed to start a cooling trend tomorrow, if the weather guesser is right.


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## syscom3 (Sep 5, 2009)

on the incident web page, they have a google earth overlay created.

http://rmgsc.cr.usgs.gov/outgoing/geomac/2009_fire_data/kmls/CA-ANF-E5VL Station 9-3-2009 2112.kml


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## evangilder (Sep 23, 2009)

Latest batch of fires brings one dangerously close to home. The northern part of Moorpark has been evacuated, and because the area burned/burning has a lot of farms and equestrian properties, there are horse trailers all over the place in town. It went from 5 acres, to 300, to 2300 to over 6,000 acres very, very fast.

Tonight, we saw friefighting crews from all over Southern California coming and going. 

We are safe where we are and the fire is moving westerly at the moment. If the winds shift though, it could get ugly fast.

Here is the latest:
Brush fire near Fillmore continues move toward Moorpark : Moorpark : Ventura County Star


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## syscom3 (Sep 23, 2009)

Be carefull out there Erich.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 23, 2009)

Hope they get a handle on that fast!


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## evangilder (Sep 23, 2009)

Me too, Dave. As of about 11 last night, it is at 8,500 acres. They usually do a morning briefing, so I am waiting to hear more from last night. We did see it crest the mountain tops to the north of us, but the winds are blowing westerly, so we don't have much smoke at the house. 

The fire map:
Ventura, Riverside and San Bernardino County fire map 9/22/09 - Google Maps

I am just south of the Arroyo Simi (river in the southern part of the map). If you drew a straight line south of Moorpark Country club a couple of miles, that is about where I am.

The Station fire, that started about a month ago is still burning as well, with 94% containment. But the Santa Ana winds are kicking up again, so it could be a long week.


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## RabidAlien (Sep 23, 2009)

Stay safe out there, y'all.


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## evangilder (Sep 23, 2009)

LA Times photo of the big iron they brought it to help fight this b!tch, taken yesterday afternoon not far from my house. We have also see the helos of multiple sizes and the Canadian Super Scoopers.


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## 109ROAMING (Sep 23, 2009)

Stay safe Erich and Eric

That is one impressive shot Eric!


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Sep 23, 2009)

Stay safe guys! That is a impressive photo. Is that a DC-10?


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## comiso90 (Sep 23, 2009)

man, that sucks. i bet the air quality is miserable.


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## evangilder (Sep 23, 2009)

It is a cool photo, but it isn't mine. Yes, that's a DC-10! One big airplane for those canyons.


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## Erich (Sep 23, 2009)

we have crews down there from my area as well as big Heli's which are actually super space creatures from another world, used in transport of very heavy timber, these things can move mountains. Anything to help our neighbors to the south.

keep an eye to the skies Eric the whole west coast is a dry tinder box at the moment with no rains in sight except possibly far north Washington/Canada

E ~


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 23, 2009)

Stay safe up there Eric! I hope they get a handle on it real soon.


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## evangilder (Sep 23, 2009)

Looks like a tough day for the firefighters. At 10 AM, it was already above 90F with 5% humidity and 25 MPH winds. It's now at 9700 acres with 20% containment. What is worrisome right now:


> The following infrastructures are threatened: Total of five 220KV power lines that supply large areas of Ventura and Santa Barbara. Two of the 220 KV lines are imminently threatened according to Southern California Edison. * 36’’ above ground natural gas line. * Oil production fields with associated storage facilities.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 23, 2009)

Damn Eric, keep us updated brother....


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## evangilder (Sep 23, 2009)

So far so good, and I will keep you guys updated as I can. If those power lines go, we'll be in deep guano.


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## Erich (Sep 23, 2009)

Eric what is the web-site covering this latest thing ? national fire agency does not mention except to throw together with the station fire and sated as 94 % contained, the silver fire in your area was contained at some 300 plus acres..............what's up ?


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## evangilder (Sep 23, 2009)

Cal fire website has the latest:
CAL FIRE - Incidents

The rest is what we catch via media outlets.


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## Geedee (Sep 23, 2009)

Crickey, still trawling through the threads and I find this one. You take care of your family out there bro and keep us posted when you can, but above all, stay safe.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 23, 2009)

Stay safe guys, PLEASE?


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## wheelsup_cavu (Sep 23, 2009)

Stay safe Eric.
That was a cool shot of the DC-10.

The fire in Norco burned close to me yesterday.
Nothing close right now, I think it's out.
I got to watch the airdrops up close.
I haven't seen anything fly so low over my house.
Not even cessnas and these were the twin engine planes.

The houses in this video are closer to the fire than I am.
I didn't take it I found it on youtube.

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHI7UGJ9aUM_


Wheels


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## beaupower32 (Sep 24, 2009)

Stay safe there Eric!


I remember when I used to live out in Palmdale me and my room mate just got off work. We were on our way home and noticed a fire burning in the mountains right next to the 14. We got on our motorcycles and headed over there. If you live out there you know about the scoccar fields next to the 14 right out of palmdale. They were using them as landing pads for the helicopters. The helicopters would come in, land, hook up to a fire hydrant, load up and take off again. I got a chance to talk to one of the ground crew and they told me that the pilot of one of the "firehawks" was a ex-chopper pilot in Vietnam. You could always tell him from any of the other pilots cause he would land like he was landing in the LZ in Vietnam. Very impressive to get to witness it from being on the soccar fields.


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## Vic Balshaw (Sep 24, 2009)

Didn't realise things were still so bad over there, stay safe


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## evangilder (Sep 24, 2009)

Looking a bit better near us this morning, but the northeastern section of the fire had a flareup this morning. There was a big flareup last night as I was on my way home near us. I saw a big black plume rising as I came down the freeway. Looks like they did a great job knocking it down, though. Power lines are still threatened, but they are doing a bang-up job on this one. It only grew about 300 acres last night and they weather is supposed to start cooling off a bit. 

We're at 16,400 acres now with 40% containment. They are on course to get full containment by Saturday. All good news so far.


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## evangilder (Sep 24, 2009)

Here was yesterday's welcome home. I was about 3-4 miles from home. The fire was about that distance away from me at that time. I live west of the flareup


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