# Korean Problems



## timshatz (May 25, 2010)

Not sure if anyone is paying attention but Korea is not looking very good right now. However, I don't think there is all that much accurate information flying around. Is South Korea mobilizing? I don't think so but can't seem to get a good line on it.

Anybody have any good info on what is going on?


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## Messy1 (May 25, 2010)

I'm interested too Tim, good post. I'll read on with interest.


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## Shinpachi (May 25, 2010)

The Koreans traditionally hate Bl**d but arguments. Leave them alone and they will forget soon.


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## timshatz (May 25, 2010)

Let's hope so. Most recent development is the cutting of diplomatic ties. Not really an unusual thing given their history.


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## Matt308 (May 25, 2010)

Full up US/SK excercise is underway. SK President has revised rules of engagement. NK claims they are going to shell positions on the DMZ. USS Enterpirise to enter Korean waters. God forbid a NK diesel/AIP sub put a fish into a US vessel.

Scary stuff.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 25, 2010)

I have been watching this for the last few days.

I will be honest, NK deserves to be punished for this.


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## Matt308 (May 25, 2010)

...and for all of their past transgressions too.

This story pisses me off evertime I think about it. It was the subject of a PBS documentary.

Axe murder incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The axe murder incident (Korean: 판문점 도끼 살인 사건) was the killing of two United States Army officers by North Korean soldiers on August 18, 1976, in the Joint Security Area (JSA) located in the Korean Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) which forms the de facto border between North and South Korea. The killings and the response three days later (Operation Paul Bunyan) heightened tensions between North and South Korea as well as their respective allies, the People's Republic of China and the United States.

The incident is also known as the hatchet incident and the poplar tree incident because the object of the conflict was a poplar tree standing in the JSA."


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## pbfoot (May 25, 2010)

been watching this event since the inception , I'm going to assume naught will happen except for morer sanctions


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## Matt308 (May 25, 2010)

Yeah I agree Pb... crying to the UN. That will do alot of good.


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## GrauGeist (May 25, 2010)

NK has been really pushing the limits lately...

It seemed to me that in the recent past that NK and Iran were competing for attention, but we'll see where NK wants to go with this...


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## Matt308 (May 25, 2010)

NK has been doing this for years. Just google North Korea Incidents and look at all the hits.

List of border incidents involving North Korea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## timshatz (May 25, 2010)

NKs seem to be getting more desperate of late. Could be stresses in the society, could be change of power coming up. But pumping a torpedo into the side of a patroling warship without obvious provication or warning is not gonna make you any friends out in the world. 

I've heard the DMZ is pretty serious even now. Not so much for US Troops but definitely for the SKs. 

But, all in all, I think PB has it nailed. Not much is going to happen unless the NKs go over the DMZ. And that isn't going to happen (if history is any judge, once is probably enough).


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## Messy1 (May 25, 2010)

Do you gentlemen feel NK is just testing it's boundaries so too speak? Seeing how far it can push everyone?


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## Thorlifter (May 25, 2010)

NK is amazing. They torpedo a military vessel, they did it, everyone knows they did it, and then scream "How dare you blame us?" I can just see them stomping their feet and holding their breath.

Kinda sounds like (self edited because of political tirade).

I'm hoping PB is right.


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## Messy1 (May 25, 2010)

At what point does the rest of the world draw a line in the sand and respond with force if NK crosses that line?


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## Torch (May 25, 2010)

Pretty tough to draw a line with China not atleast publicly spanking NK.


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## Messy1 (May 25, 2010)

Good point Torch. What can be done when China will not do anything counter NK's actions.


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## vikingBerserker (May 25, 2010)

History has shown time and time again you cannot reason with a madman, yet people continue to try.

It just defies logic.


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## wheelsup_cavu (May 25, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> Full up US/SK excercise is underway. SK President has revised rules of engagement. NK claims they are going to shell positions on the DMZ. USS Enterpirise to enter Korean waters. God forbid a NK diesel/AIP sub put a fish into a US vessel.
> 
> Scary stuff.


Why would that change anything?


USS Pueblo - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Pueblo_(AGER-2)


> The North Korean vessels attempted to board Pueblo, but she maneuvered to prevent this for over two hours and a sub chaser opened fire with a 57 mm cannon, killing one member of the crew




Wheels


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## GrauGeist (May 25, 2010)

As much as China has it's hands in the U.S.'s pockets, I seriously doubt they'll back NK this time around, if they drop over the 32nd parallel...just a hunch, there...

But I do believe that NK has been "saber rattling" a little too much lately, like a spoiled angry child looking for attention, and they may end up painting themselves into a corner when they don't get the attention they were looking for and end up having to actually do something to save face.


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## Torch (May 25, 2010)

If China wants to be part of "The New World Order" they would "b***h" slap NK down,but as usuall they are waffling with an "allie". The countries involved would be in total shock if China stepped up to the plate and told NK to cut the nonsense or we pull all our support, but I get the feeling that China likes the tension in the area from a mouse that roars.


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## Matt308 (May 25, 2010)

Messy1 said:


> Do you gentlemen feel NK is just testing it's boundaries so too speak? Seeing how far it can push everyone?



NK has done this repeatedly... and to their positive return... since the 1950's. They commit an incident/attrocity, the world recoils in horror, they threaten and the world reacts with "humanitarian aid" to protect the innocents. NK is as predicatable as an atomic clock. Let me ask you this... when is the last time that a tyrant or brutal dictator gave up power with no bloodshed or violence upon the peoples. Frickin' never. I hate to say it, but someone just needs to take Kim Jung Il and his regime out. I bet it could be done in a week with SK help and... wait for it... China's help.

And therein lies the problem.

You would think that with all the NK refugees spilling over the border that China would want to resolve this. But the Chicom's are likely so fearful of SK democracy spreading into their poor southeast region that they are willing to support the continued oppression/killing of innocents.

What a world.


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## pbfoot (May 25, 2010)

China is such a lame nation they'll never do anything to help unless there is a direct benefit. I wonder if they ever paid any of their lend lease bills .


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## Matt308 (May 25, 2010)

I fully believe that China's oppression of their people will double back upon them. We in the west think short term. What I worry about is China's involvement in western economy and its demise's impact upon us. Only time in my opinion.


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## BombTaxi (May 26, 2010)

I think if NK are going to try anything, the time is now. The US is heavily deployed in Iraq/Afghanistan and will have to divert assests from those sectors to deal with Pyongyang. The deployment of the Big E is a start, but a carrier group cannot win a war on it's own. The UK is also heavily deployed in Afghanistan, and Argentina's sabre-rattling and potential unrest in Ireland are much more immediate threats than NK. The rest of the world, except Japan, is unlikely to take much notice as they all seem to have their own troubles to deal with. So the US might find itself short of allies, and short of resource if it all kicks off in the near future...


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## Lucky13 (May 26, 2010)

And the former USSR? Thinking the MiG's back in the day. Would some diehard old communists try something for the former allies?


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## Night Fighter Nut (May 26, 2010)

As memory serves, Kim's dad promised that one day the North would take the South and unite Korea under communism. Every time there is a succession, they start to rattle the sabre again. Last I heard, Kim is not doing well as far as health is concerned and that he has already apointed a successor after he is gone. Perhaps he may be just trying to show his people that he is still in charge and strong in their eyes. Kim is very afraid of the U.S. but perhaps now that we are spread so thin, he thinks he can get away with anything and is feeling that the U.S. is too involved elsewhere to care what he does.


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## timshatz (May 26, 2010)

Keep in mind fellas that the North has nukes. That's trouble for anyone trying to keep them from getting out of hand. Like the local neighborhood nutjob having an automatic weapon (which is why all sane countries have laws against nutjobs having guns). The work you need to do to take him out is not going to be worth the cost. 

Something along the lines of containment is the best plan. Otherwise, you stand the chance of Seoul or Tokyo getting nuked (not that Tokyo has anything to do with this but you can never tell with a nutjob).


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## Matt308 (May 26, 2010)

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh_9QhRzJEs_


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## Messy1 (May 26, 2010)

You may be on to something Matt. Maybe we could just send him a card or something?


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## Night Fighter Nut (May 26, 2010)

We could give his phone number to telemarketers and let them talk him to death?


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## RabidAlien (May 26, 2010)

Night Fighter Nut said:


> We could give his phone number to telemarketers and let them talk him to death?



Ooooo....cruel and unusual....I like it!


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## BombTaxi (May 27, 2010)

timshatz said:


> Keep in mind fellas that the North has nukes. That's trouble for anyone trying to keep them from getting out of hand. Like the local neighborhood nutjob having an automatic weapon (which is why all sane countries have laws against nutjobs having guns). The work you need to do to take him out is not going to be worth the cost.
> 
> Something along the lines of containment is the best plan. Otherwise, you stand the chance of Seoul or Tokyo getting nuked (not that Tokyo has anything to do with this but you can never tell with a nutjob).



NK may have nukes, but delivering them is another matter - IIRC, the last NK missile test was something of a failure. IMHO, containment is not going to work - it never has in the past, it isn't now, and it is unlikely that it will do in the future.

NK wants attention - they want to be Public Enemy Number One as this suits the needs of the dictatorship and keeps the minds of the people off the fact that they are rapidly starving to death. There are two realistic options available. Firstly, go in and instigate a regime change. This is difficult, firstly because the US is still dealing with the aftermath of it's regime changes in Iraq and Afghanistan, and secondly because going to war with NK is exactly what Pyongyang wants the West to do. 

The other option is to try to increase sanctions and increase the suffering of the ordinary people even further. Three things make this a bad choice. Firstly, it confirms the narrative from Pyongyang that the West is out to make NK suffer and makes a martyr out of Kim Jong Il. Secondly, China will never co-operate so the sanctions will not be fully effective. Thirdly, a sanctions regime has never actually achieved anything in terms of correcting the behaviour of a wayward state - I present Libya and Iraq as classic examples of this.

So whatever is done in NK, it means another long war, another Vietnam, another Afghanistan and another failure in containment policy.


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## Matt308 (May 27, 2010)

BombTaxi said:


> NK may have nukes, but delivering them is another matter.



I honestly don't think that NK has any credible nuke threat. Neither delivery nor detonation. Maybe lob the equivalent of a dirty bomb in Seoul. That would be bad enough.



BombTaxi said:


> NK wants attention - they want to be Public Enemy Number One as this suits the needs of the dictatorship and keeps the minds of the people off the fact that they are rapidly starving to death. .



Exactly right. This has been their modus operandi ever since the ceasefire negotiations began in the early 1950s.



BombTaxi said:


> This is difficult, firstly because the US is still dealing with the aftermath of it's regime changes in Iraq and Afghanistan, and secondly because going to war with NK is exactly what Pyongyang wants the West to do. .



I don't agree with this. Bluffing about war is one thing. Actually going to war is another. The threats and probes keep the masses focused upon the evil intentions of the West. Going to war would quickly result in dispelling that myth. This would not be a war of the 1950s wherein the bombing doctrine was steeped in WWII with cities being annihilated. This would be a precision war with comparatively little civilian casualties. Comparatively.

However, see my comment below because it's not quite that simple now is it.



BombTaxi said:


> The other option is to try to increase sanctions and increase the suffering of the ordinary people even further. Three things make this a bad choice. Firstly, it confirms the narrative from Pyongyang that the West is out to make NK suffer and makes a martyr out of Kim Jong Il. Secondly, China will never co-operate so the sanctions will not be fully effective. Thirdly, a sanctions regime has never actually achieved anything in terms of correcting the behaviour of a wayward state - I present Libya and Iraq as classic examples of this..



Not sure if Libya is your best example. But your main point is spot on. Sanctions do nothing but focus the NK civilian ire upon the evil west. Mission accomplished.



BombTaxi said:


> So whatever is done in NK, it means another long war, another Vietnam, another Afghanistan and another failure in containment policy.



I agree with this ONLY if China gets involved. Personally, I question whether they would. There would be lots of teeth gnashing, but I profess that the actual war would be waged so quickly that China would not have time to react in a credible fashion. But post war (like Iraq), we would have one hell of a time with occupation and underground enemies supported by China. And what would SK do with the literally millions upon millions of refugees that would certainly flood their borders with no skills, no money, no possessions, starving, etc. The DMZ serves two purposes if you ask me. SK doesn't want war. Their economy is humming right along even with the recession. A war would bring that to a screeching halt.

It's a no win situation in my opinion.


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## BombTaxi (May 27, 2010)

I think you're right Matt, the war would be easily won, but the peace would be very, very difficult to win, as per Iraq.I think this is true no matter what China does. If China remains neutral but hostile to an occupying force, reconstruction will be near impossible. But if China gets involved, there will be inevitable tension with the US over who sets the agenda and leads the projects.

Still, at a very basic level I feel that 'Something Needs To Be Done'. My gut says that there should be retaliation for the sinking of the SK warship - and there is absolutely no doubt NK did it. Problem is, how do you get the job done without de-stabilizing the whole region and/or making a martyr of Kim Jong Il? 

I personally suspect that Kim Jong Il would welcome a war as a vindication of his paranoia and a chance to go down in a blaze of glory - but I accept your point that if there is a war, he loses his bargaining chip with the masses.

However, I would say that SK doesn't want or need a war for much the same reasons as you give for NK - not least as anti-North posturing seems to be a key part of their politics - take away the threat and what is there to posture about? Just as the people of NK are taught to fear the West, I suspect the people of SK are taught to fear the North - it's a very handy way of uniting the populace and diverting their discontent away from the govt...


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## timshatz (May 27, 2010)

Good posts Matt and Bomb. Everything keeps coming back to Kim being a nut and there isn't a lot that you can do that won't cost more than it's worth. 

Although, while I agree the NK military is nowhere near as effective as those around it, I gotta believe they've got a way to get a nuke, a functioning nuke, to where they want it. Even the threat of them being able to do so is enough. Who wants to test it and find out if they can or can't pop a nuke over Seoul?


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## Shinpachi (May 27, 2010)

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnG_ycQECwY_ though we do not care as long as it is their simulation or dream...


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## Matt308 (May 27, 2010)

timshatz said:


> Who wants to test it and find out if they can or can't pop a nuke over Seoul?



Absolutely right. And even a poorly targeted and partially exploded device in Seoul would be devasting to civil moral and hugely expensive to clean up.

Funny how a single nuke can hold a huge occupation army hostage and in another defense thread in the Modern sub-forum, there are posts arguing for the UK to dismantle their nukes over costs. That's cheap insurance to maintain sovereignty, if you ask me.


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## timshatz (May 27, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> That's cheap insurance to maintain sovereignty, if you ask me.



Got that right. And I'd hate to be the "True Believer" who dismantles their arsenal only to find the potential enemy that promised they'd do the same...didn't.


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## Matt308 (May 27, 2010)

..or that Canada's imperialistic aspirations finally came to the forefront and they notified the non-nuke world that they were taking over the galaxy.


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## timshatz (May 27, 2010)

Shinpachi said:


> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnG_ycQECwY_ though we do not care as long as it is their simulation or dream...




Watched it. Couldn't follow what was going on.


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## Catch22 (May 27, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> ..or that Canada's imperialistic aspirations finally came to the forefront and they notified the non-nuke world that they were taking over the galaxy.



Be afraid!


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## Shinpachi (May 27, 2010)

Sorry timshatz. Some explanation was needed.

The Korean movie "Han Ban Do(meaning Korean Peninsula. introduced in 2006)" says North and South of Korea can anytime be unified if Japan may try invasion on the peninsula again. A Korean friend of mine said the same thing fifteen years ago too.
That means "South does not hate North or Kim Jong Il from the bottom of their hearts".


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## GrauGeist (May 27, 2010)

Perhaps the best solution here, is to get the NK public to overthrow thier current regime, much like some of the former Warsaw pact nations did...

That would seem to me like the best work-around for a potentially global situation.


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## timshatz (May 27, 2010)

Shinpachi said:


> Sorry timshatz. Some explanation was needed.
> 
> The Korean movie "Han Ban Do(meaning Korean Peninsula. introduced in 2006)" says North and South of Korea can anytime be unified if Japan may try invasion on the peninsula again. A Korean friend of mine said the same thing fifteen years ago too.
> That means "South does not hate North or Kim Jong Il from the bottom of their hearts".



Gotcha Shin, the old saw of using an outside threat to unify a divided country/people. Been used time and again in the past (The Falklands War comes to mind right away). Only runs second to "uniting against the internal threat" trick. That one is a big one for the Communist/Socialist movements. 

Thanks for the info.


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## Torch (May 27, 2010)

I'm curious to see whom Kim picked or will as a replacement, I'm sure the pick would be someone who's another fanatic along the same lines, so who knows if anything would improve once Kim died anyway. If he's young it might be another 50 years of the same...


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## BombTaxi (May 27, 2010)

I think he has selected one of his sons for the job, Torch

RE: unilateral disarmament, I'd just like to clarify my position slightly (and this goes for both threads).

Firstly, I am advocating scrapping Trident. I have no issue with the RAF or RN maintaining a n uclear cruise missile capability. But I really do think our SLBMs are something we don't need.

Secondly, SALT talks etc are just like the Washington Naval Treaty and it's sequels in the 1920s/30s. No-one will dump their whole arsenal overnight, but if the big players take clear and positive steps in that direction, a drawdown can begin. The US decision to scrap the Tillman BBs and the Montanas took a lot of cojones - far more than Britain's promises to 'scrap' the ships that we hadn't even started. But these action persuaded the Japanese to make concessions too. What Obama and Medvedyev/Putin did at the last SALT talks were similar - they showed a willingness to begin to disarm, inviting other states to do likewise. We just need to avoid doing what the British did at the London Treaty in 1935 - inviting the bad guys in and unilaterally overthrowing the restrictions on the German Navy to appease Hitler. That would be like telling Kim he can have SLBMs as long as he only has a few, and that would be stupid.

I am not naive enough to think there will ever be a world with no nukes - they are here to stay. But no power needs the kind of planet-destroying firepower that the USA/USSR/China has. They just need to keep making those small, definite steps towards a more sensible level of force.


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## timshatz (May 27, 2010)

Bombtaxi, isn't that post supposed to be in the Defense cut thread? I think they were talking about cutting nukes for Britian over there.


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## BombTaxi (May 27, 2010)

Yeah sorry, I think it applies to this thread, defence cuts and the one about nuke numbers in some respects, I guess I picked the wrong one out of the three. I knew what I meant anyway


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## Matt308 (May 27, 2010)

My fault, Timshatz. I egged him on, so Taxi's response was appropriate.


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## drgondog (May 27, 2010)

China is the only country to hold the cards. Our message (quiet and back channel) is make sure China understands our role as the key funder of chinese military stops with a 50% tariff on all chinese imports if they don't start being part of the solution with NK and Iran..

Having said that it will never happen and Taiwan is the next shoe to drop in US/China relations.


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## Colin1 (May 28, 2010)

North Korea warns it will meet war with 'all-out war' - CNN.com


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## timshatz (May 28, 2010)

Colin1 said:


> North Korea warns it will meet war with 'all-out war' - CNN.com



Ya' know, I'd give this the same creedence as I gave Saddam's "Mother of all battles" speach before the first Gulf War if it weren't for all the totally dedicated nutjob soliders that the NKs have in their Army. The equipment may be old, but those guys are dedicated. 

On the other hand, I think these guys declare "all out war" every two weeks, don't they?


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## timshatz (May 28, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> My fault, Timshatz. I egged him on, so Taxi's response was appropriate.



There's always one guy out there, nudging the guy, saying, "Go ahead, do it, it'll be fun". 

One of my favorite duties in life (the other being the guy who gets nudged)


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## Night Fighter Nut (May 28, 2010)

Torch said:


> I'm curious to see whom Kim picked or will as a replacement, I'm sure the pick would be someone who's another fanatic along the same lines, so who knows if anything would improve once Kim died anyway. If he's young it might be another 50 years of the same...



I remember an article some time back that mentioned who he would pick. One of his younger sons who has been educated in the West someplace. Funny thing is he doesn't really want to be the "Great Leader!" I think there was another artricle just recently saying all this mess is only a stunt for the transition to power and his stepping down as the great leader.


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## Messy1 (May 28, 2010)

Interesting posts guys! Thanks for sharing your views.


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## BombTaxi (May 28, 2010)

timshatz said:


> There's always one guy out there, nudging the guy, saying, "Go ahead, do it, it'll be fun".
> 
> One of my favorite duties in life (the other being the guy who gets nudged)



I was tired and vunerable!  And I couldn't be doing with trawling over to the other thread to make the same point, but then I also enjoy both of those duties 

I totally agree Tim that the NK soldiers are dedicated to the cause and a war in Korea won't be a war in Iraq. I still agree with Matt that it would be a short war, but it would be an extremely bloody one, I fear. IMHO, the only strategy would be to hold the line as best as possible while air/sea power interdicts and cuts off thier logistical support. Even then, you've still got a lot of NK soldiers to deal with while the interdiction takes effect...


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## timshatz (May 28, 2010)

BombTaxi said:


> I was tired and vunerable!  And I couldn't be doing with trawling over to the other thread to make the same point, but then I also enjoy both of those duties
> 
> I totally agree Tim that the NK soldiers are dedicated to the cause and a war in Korea won't be a war in Iraq. I still agree with Matt that it would be a short war, but it would be an extremely bloody one, I fear. IMHO, the only strategy would be to hold the line as best as possible while air/sea power interdicts and cuts off thier logistical support. Even then, you've still got a lot of NK soldiers to deal with while the interdiction takes effect...



Agreed, short (no strategic partner to back if China is even lukewarm about it all) and very bloody. Wars in the Orient usually are. Hope it doesn't get to that but you really have to wonder if it is nothing more than a question of time. Sooner or later, those guys (the NKs) are going to screw up big enough to start a brawl. A certain flavor to it like Europe in pre-WW1 days. Sooner or later it will happen with the eventual collapse of NK being the only wild card in the mix.


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## RabidAlien (May 29, 2010)

Remember...."Never get involved in a land-war in Asia."


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## Torch (May 29, 2010)

Interesting, China just offered condolences to SK...perhaps an indirect warning to NK to knock it off.


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## timshatz (May 29, 2010)

RabidAlien said:


> Remember...."Never get involved in a land-war in Asia."



The Princess Bride! Great Movie! "I am the son of Diego Montoya and I have come here to...."

Love that flick!


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## Matt308 (May 29, 2010)

Never saw that movie and hear about it all the time.


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## RabidAlien (May 29, 2010)

Its a classic, Matt....chick-flick with man-moments thrown in. Gotta love Andre the Giant rhyming, Cary Elwes swordfights, and tons of other cheesy goodness! "Have fun stormin da castle!"


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## Matt308 (May 29, 2010)

Alright, I'm gonna reserve it at the local library. I've heard nothing but good. I suppose it's kid friendly (11+).


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## Lucky13 (May 29, 2010)

Matt watching a chick flick.......what has the world come to!?  What'll be next mate, sleepovers/pyjamas parties?


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## Matt308 (May 29, 2010)

If that is my only sign of manly frailty, I've definitely got you all fooled.


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## Catch22 (May 29, 2010)

I think I watched it when I was in Grade 6 Matt, so it'll be fine for your kids.


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## Matt308 (May 29, 2010)

Oh now wait a minute... look how you've turned out. I think I'll hold off. 

So what is the point of this thread again?


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## Catch22 (May 29, 2010)

I think it had something to do with not raising your children to be like me...


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## Torch (May 29, 2010)

We were talking about Kimchi and how bad it tasted


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## Matt308 (May 29, 2010)

Timshatz, on behalf of the "normal" people in the forum, I apologize for Catch's digression to your thread logic.


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## vikingBerserker (May 29, 2010)

"Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha..."

Sorry, just had to get that out


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## pbfoot (May 29, 2010)

vikingBerserker said:


> "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line"!


must have been uttered by a Sicilian


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## Catch22 (May 29, 2010)

Sorry, it is an interesting thread!


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## Lucky13 (May 30, 2010)

The thread was for Matt's upcoming slumber party!


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## B-17engineer (May 30, 2010)

Yeah Matt, 

Where is my invitation  

I saw the movie as well in 6th grade...


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## Lucky13 (May 30, 2010)

Yeah? Shall one bring a date or?


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## Matt308 (May 30, 2010)

no you come alone, Lucky. I'll be serving you salami.


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## Lucky13 (May 30, 2010)

Salami and some good beer....saweeet!


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## Matt308 (May 30, 2010)

He fell for it


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## Lucky13 (May 30, 2010)

Bring a few 'birds' in case I get bored....


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## Catch22 (May 30, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> He fell for it



 Hook, line, and sinker!


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## timshatz (May 30, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> Timshatz, on behalf of the "normal" people in the forum, I apologize for Catch's digression to your thread logic.



No worries Matt. The day a thread in this forum actually closes anywhere near it's starting point, the entire internet will collapse on itself in a blaze of logic beyond the comprehension of mortals.

When it does, I just hope I'm logged off (for purely selfish and personal reasons).


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