# Cannon Shell



## FlexiBull (Feb 23, 2009)

Can anyone identify this shell, there appear to be no markings on the shell at all

Length: 3 3/16 inches 81.1 mm
Diameter: 3/4 inch 19.3mm

















Thanks FlexiBull


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 23, 2009)

Most likely is a 20mm Hispano HE shell, ( 20 x 110mm case) Just measure the rotating band, it must have a reading between 19,9 to 20,01 mm.


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## FlexiBull (Feb 23, 2009)

Only using cheap vernier callipers it comes out to be around 20.07.

Now I'm learning ............ when someone talks about a 20mm, it's not the diameter of the shell itself but the band (in this case copper) that drives the rotation in the barrel?

So really 20mm is the bore of the barrel?

FlexiBull


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 23, 2009)

Yes , you need to have some body to engage the rifling and stabilize the bullet, however it depend in the type of weapon and the nationality of it. Usually in the metric cannons is like that, but in small arms is generally the diameter between the upper grooves inside the barrel, for example a rifle caliber .30 actually use a .308 bullet, and a 7,92mm mauser karabiner use one about 8,20mm.

20.07mm ( if correct) is narrowly inside the tolerance, 20.12 was the barrel max diameter.

By the way your bullet could be also one from an Oerlikon SS AAA, the case was different but the projectile is the same.


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## FlexiBull (Feb 24, 2009)

It's an education on here, thanks again

I have just unscrewed the fuse and cleaned up the inside face to reveal what looks like "LL". Does this narrow it down anymore?






I have no idea how the shell came into my possession. My father was an air gunner in the RAF and ended up as an instructor before leaving. He did talk about the Oerlikon cannons being fitted in upper turrets and that each cannon body fitted either side of the gunners head, no wonder he had hearing problems in later life!!!!!

But I think this is just coincidence, by the way is the "fuse" safe?


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## CharlesBronson (Feb 24, 2009)

> He did talk about the Oerlikon cannons being fitted in upper turrets and that each cannon body fitted either side of the gunners head, no wonder he had hearing problems in later life!!!!!



Auch, that is gunner´s sickness in all the armies.

I am not really sure what LL means, that 2 letter didnt match any projectile denomination, most likely is the manufacturer code or mark.



> But I think this is just coincidence, by the way is the "fuse" safe?



Probably no, so be careful.


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## racerguy00 (Oct 1, 2009)

In 1957 my uncle, who was 10 at the time, was given some sort of cannon shell by a veteran neighbor. My father was seven at the time, and believes it was from WW1 given the age of the neighbor. It had been sitting on a shelf for decades and was said to be safe. 

Joe, my uncle, took in into a bedroom at home and it detonated. A basketball sized hole was blown in the wall and my uncle staggered through the house and expired on the front porch in front of my father.

Please, no matter how safe something looks or how many times you are assured that something is safe, don't take it for granted. I even saw an article within the past year where a civil war collector was killed by a shell from the 1860's.


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## tomo pauk (Oct 1, 2009)

Get rid of it. It will kill you, or someone you love


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## lesofprimus (Oct 1, 2009)

Gotta agree with the guys here.... STOP handling it until u can get some sort of confirmation as to the status of the fuse man....

Serious sh!t here, I was a Navy SEAL for many years and that sh!t can go boom at ANY time....


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## beaupower32 (Oct 1, 2009)

Put it outside at least just incase the thing goes off, will be less damage. Just make sure youput it where no one can get it, especially kids.


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## evangilder (Oct 1, 2009)

Dispose of it properly. Hand it over to a local police station or military installation. They will know what to do with it.


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## RabidAlien (Oct 1, 2009)

Have the local bomb-squad or EOD render it inert (pull out all the boomy parts and leave you with the shell). You'll still have a cool lookin souvenir to sit on the mantle, without all the worry of explosions.


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## Soren (Oct 1, 2009)

I can only mirror what these guys have said about being careful around old unexploded ordnance, but seeing that you already unscrewed the impact fuze I also suspect that all of the inside powder-charge is gone. And in that case the shell is safe, BUT the fuze is NOT. Heck even an empty cartridge can be dangerous if there's still a live primer on it!


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## racerguy00 (Oct 1, 2009)

Out of curiosity I read my uncle's obituary today and it says what happened.

The 3 cm. shell had been picked up by a soldier on occupation duty at a German airfield after WW2. Must have been the neighbor's son or something. The explosives had supposedly been removed from the shell casing. 

On a side note, my son Joseph is named after Uncle Joe.


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 1, 2009)

Dam rg, that really stinks. I'm sorry to hear that.


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## Airframes (Oct 1, 2009)

I agree with all of the above. The fact that the fuse fitting is there at all very probably indicates that it is live. At one time, the 'LL' stamp actually indicated 'Live Load', although this is not to say that this is the case here. British-made ammunition and fuses normally use a two-letter, and sometimes an additional single number, to indicte the factory which produced it, for example, 'RG 2', which was Radway Green, section Two. I don't know of any factory markings in the 'L' series. Additionally, an innert training round, for loading and un-loading drills, would have a totally blank, 'solid' part for a fuse, just to make the round/casing complete.
Take the whole thing to either your local Police Station, or contact the EOD, found under 'Army' in Yellow Pages. They will 'make safe', and if you ask, you should have the innert round returned to you. It's possible that there may be complications via the Police, as it is technically illegal to posses an explosive, or potentially explosive or converible to explosive device in the UK. However, given the circumstances, after the inital 'formalities', you should be ok!
BTW, it's possible that this was from a 20mm mounted on a late Coastal Command Lancaster or a Shackleton, both of which used the Oerlikon pattern guns in the top turret, and in the nose on the Shackleton MR3.


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## CharlesBronson (Oct 1, 2009)

In my early post I said to him "be careful", hopefully he was, but I cant see any new post of it. 

I forgot to tell him that collectibles are always INERT ordenance.


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## racerguy00 (Oct 2, 2009)

Here's a link to the civil war collector. I nominate him for a Darwin award for removing himself from the gene pool. And thanks VB



Never Yet Melted Civil War Relic Collector Killed While Disarming Shell


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## r2800doublewasp (Oct 2, 2009)

Damn, this makes me wonder about the WWII Japanese mortar shell(?) my brother has on his shelf that we bought for $5 at a garage sale down the street...


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