# Marine Throws Puppy????



## comiso90 (Mar 5, 2008)

This is getting a lot of attention. I sure hope it's faked. If it's real, why the hell would anybody videotape it?


Urban Legends Reference Pages: Marine Throws Puppy Off Cliff

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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 5, 2008)

HA!

Remember the movie "Flight of the Intruder" and the bar scene at Subic Bay. I was told that was loosely based on a real place that had croc pits and for 50 cents you could throw a chick (not a girl but a baby chicken) into the pit. $1.00 got you a kitten and $5.00 got you a puppy. Crude and rude? Yes! Would I do it? NO! Boys behaving badly, time to move on...


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## Matt308 (Mar 5, 2008)

Snopes says if may be faked. If not. Throw the book at them. That's piss poor behavior. And filming it is criminal. I hope for fake. Hold the puppy. Make googley eyes. Cut recording. Insert stuffed animal. Overdub yelps. Oh please let that be so. Look, there are worse things that happen in war by any stretch, but those Marines should know better if it is the real McCoy.

I'm keeping the faith. Supposedly the Marines are out of Hawaii and they know who they are. Let the UMCJs rule.


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## evangilder (Mar 5, 2008)

Hard to say if it's real or not. If it is, that's real bad PR for the Marines. If not, it's still bad PR for the Marines. Soldiers do stupid things, especially on deployments. I know I did in my days. BUT, we never filmed anything.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm sorry for the puppy. I like dogs. And I do shudder at all the anger agains't the marines. Things like this could really do something to Marines in the future, if the public loses trust in them.

But I'm more worried for the family of this marine. They could get hurt. And we still don't know if this IS the actual marine. 

And while what he did was either cruel or just dumb, we don't know, I would be scared stiff if I was that guy. I would go hide in a cave, change my face, and basically try and stay low for 20 years.

I think this guy could get lynched or murdered. People are that mad at him. And I hope that doesn't happen, especially if he is not the one. If he did kill a puppy that way, that was cruel, but should we really kill a human being to atone for it? And somehow because he's a marine makes it worse. 

I mean, put him in jail for animal cruelty. But frankly other people have done bad things, a civillian man on the news threw some puppies off a bridge, and people were mad, but not this mad.

I think this really shows the power of the internet, it's almost dangerous. I mean, half of humanity or at least this country can find out something bad in a day, and you can have mass hysteria as the result.

In the old days news traveled slower. This would not have happened. The outrage would not be so concentrated. This Marine would probably get in trouble, but now I don't know what will happen to him.

If I was marine, I would really annoyed, even more at this guy, because it hurts the whole group.

I mean, there's even more foaming at the mouth than the Au Garib case or the shooting of that wounded terrorist in the mosque I think. This puppy is one of the most influnential dogs in history.

I wonder if the Marines will ban cellphones for private soldiers on patrol or something. Not that you should try to hide bad things, but public opinion can go too far sometimes, I mean they want this thing wiped ou in blood.

Have proffesional journalists along, of course. But guy who posted this up should have shown it to the military, not the public.


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## lesofprimus (Mar 6, 2008)

We've all done really stoopid and inhumane things in our lives to one degree or another, and yes, there are a few tapes of me doing some really bad things out there...

U did something stupid, deal with the consequences... Thats how boys become men, consequence...

All I can say about this Jarhead is, thank God it wasnt a Squid....


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## evangilder (Mar 6, 2008)

> Have proffesional journalists along, of course.



In combat zones, the _last _thing you want is a reporter tagging along. Many things are neither black, nor white when the lead starts to fly. Plus, having someone along who is unarmed and untrained is a liability and a drain on morale.


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 6, 2008)

lesofprimus said:


> All I can say about this Jarhead is, thank God it wasnt a Squid....


We would of been filmed tossing hookers into a government van!


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## mkloby (Mar 6, 2008)

FLYBOYJ said:


> We would of been filmed tossing hookers into a government van!



Haha - then what you'd all vomit all over them and pass out???? 

I'm sure if anything the gears of the UCMJ are turning. Damn JAGs are probably pissed they have work now. I think NJP won't be an option.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Mar 6, 2008)

> [In combat zones, the last thing you want is a reporter tagging along. Many things are neither black, nor white when the lead starts to fly. Plus, having someone along who is unarmed and untrained is a liability and a drain on morale.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> You're right.
> ...


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## Bucksnort101 (Mar 6, 2008)

If they are Marines and it is not faked they should be flogged for being cruel and idiots.
If it is faked and they are Marines they should be flogged for being idiots.
If they are not Marines and it is real they should be flogged for being cruel and impersonating a Marine.
If they are not Marines and it is fakes they should be flogged for being idiots and impersonating a Marine.

Any way you look at it they should be flogged for one reason or another!!!


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## Konigstiger205 (Mar 6, 2008)

Even if is staged is pretty low...


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## mkloby (Mar 6, 2008)

Bucksnort101 said:


> If they are Marines and it is not faked they should be flogged for being cruel and idiots.
> If it is faked and they are Marines they should be flogged for being idiots.
> If they are not Marines and it is real they should be flogged for being cruel and impersonating a Marine.
> If they are not Marines and it is fakes they should be flogged for being idiots and impersonating a Marine.
> ...



It will be investigated and taken care of. I'd hate to be the IO for this one.


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## Negative Creep (Mar 6, 2008)

It's one of those bizzare idiosyncrasies that we find violecne against animals more shocking than against other people. Could very easily be faked (I'm thinking of that famous video where the granny kicks the baby) but if real they should certainly be punished for it


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## Bucksnort101 (Mar 6, 2008)

Negative, I'd feel the same way if they had thrown a human over the cliff as well!


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## Negative Creep (Mar 6, 2008)

Of course, but I remember reading animal charities receive far more in donations than those for people! Or take films; you can show people getting beaten, shot , beaten and blown up but if that were a dog or cat people would be shocked


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## Bucksnort101 (Mar 6, 2008)

Yes, I know where you are coming from on that. People have a soft spot in thier hearts for animals, and many give them more protections than thier human couterparts. Peta and the Humane Society of America (not the same group as your local Humane Society) come to mind here.



> Or take films; you can show people getting beaten, shot , beaten and blown up but if that were a dog or cat people would be shocked



This is precisely why I no longer go to the movies or watch much Television any more. Too much junk and perversion for my liking.


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## comiso90 (Mar 6, 2008)

The proliferation of video will destroy us or keep us honest. The potential for taking video out of context is too great.

How many bags of grain will we have to distribute how many Hospitals and schools built before the image of a puppy tossing marine is erased from the minds of the rest of the world?

This is a major PR victory for the bad guys.. this has a lot of legs.

.. I gotta say though.. the audio doesn't sound right... the yelping doest fade with distance...


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## Clave (Mar 6, 2008)

You may say the animal charities are over the top, but even the puniest human has more capability for self-defence than a puppy. There is simply NO EXCUSE for being cruel to animals, it is cowardly and pathetic, and I hope this is just another fake...


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## Njaco (Mar 6, 2008)

So do I hope its fake.

and the #1 mantra of newspapers is if has kids or animals in the story, it will sell.

Don't get me started on those animal protection groups and organizations unless you like paying for $300,000 salary for the CEO and a company car to roll around in. Support your local animal shelter. Much better use of money donations.


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## i-kil-you (Mar 6, 2008)

lesofprimus said:


> We've all done really stoopid and inhumane things in our lives to one degree or another, and yes, there are a few tapes of me doing some really bad things out there...
> 
> U did something stupid, deal with the consequences... Thats how boys become men, consequence...
> 
> All I can say about this Jarhead is, thank God it wasnt a Squid....



I've done some pretty stupid things in my life also so ur not the only 1


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## mkloby (Mar 6, 2008)

Clave said:


> You may say the animal charities are over the top, but even the puniest human has more capability for self-defence than a puppy. There is simply NO EXCUSE for being cruel to animals, it is cowardly and pathetic, and I hope this is just another fake...



Of course there's the blatant cases - such as if this video were legit. However, animal cruelty laws in most US states go way beyond anything that is reasonable. Again - they're animals, not human beings.


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## Konigstiger205 (Mar 7, 2008)

There was a huge scandal last year when was shown a video with 3 teenage kids beating a cat until its dead.That was pretty shocking and a petition was signed to make an animal police but although many signed the petition nothing happened.As for the fact that humans give more sympathy and protection to animals, well thats a known fact but I saw a beheading (I hope I spelled it right) once and I hated the bastards who did it more than anyone in the world.Killing a helpless victim (animal or human) or beating it its just cruelty and those who did should be punished....


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## Freebird (Mar 7, 2008)

Bucksnort101 said:


> If they are Marines and it is not faked they should be flogged for being cruel and idiots.
> If it is faked and they are Marines they should be flogged for being idiots.
> If they are not Marines and it is real they should be flogged for being cruel and impersonating a Marine.
> If they are not Marines and it is fakes they should be flogged for being idiots and impersonating a Marine.
> ...



Pretty good logic there...


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Mar 7, 2008)

Someone was saying how this will turn into a conspiracy theory, that people will always wonder if that puppy was real or not, no matter what the military says.


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## Wayne Little (Mar 7, 2008)

Low act, hope it is faked?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 7, 2008)

mkloby said:


> However, animal cruelty laws in most US states go way beyond anything that is reasonable. Again - they're animals, not human beings.



On that I disagree with. Do animals not feel pain? 

In my opinion the full book should be thrown at people who are cruel to animals (I am not talking about legit hunting). They are living beings as well. 

I think Vick got off easy and the punishments for offenders should be much harsher than they are.

An animal has no way of really defending itself. It is wrong...

I am in no way a tree hugging Greenie or anything but animal cruelty is just as bad as doing it to humans.

I pray that this is a fake. As a former US service member I hold all US Service members to a high standard and this is one of them. If it is not a fake, I would punish them more harsher than I would a civilian and a civilian I would punish greatly!


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## ToughOmbre (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm hopin' it's a fake as well. Probably is.

And I agree with Adler; there's no excuse for cruelty to animals.

TO


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## Njaco (Mar 7, 2008)

I could tell you stories! But the main thing about animal cruelty that you must keep in mind is that there has been documented studies and someone who abuses animals will eventually abuse humans. There is a link. I have been involved in some cases first hand where the history was as young kids they tortured animals and graduated to other horrendous things.

In many states animal cruelty laws are no more than misdemeanors - same thing as not wearing your seat belt. I'm not saying they should get captial punishment but they should be harsh.

And some history. Our Child abuse laws are based on animal cruelty laws that were in existance at the time (late 1800's). Child advocates used animal cruelty laws to change the law regarding kids.


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## magnocain (Mar 7, 2008)

> I have been involved in some cases first hand where the history was as young kids they tortured animals and graduated to other horrendous things.


Agreed.


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## evangilder (Mar 8, 2008)

Njaco, you hit the nail on the head. Cruelty to animals is a sadistic behavior and it will crossover into other parts of the perp's life. There are many questions about this video and no matter what is determined to be the truth in this case, someone will doubt it or scream injustice. It's really a no win situation for the Marines involved and Marines in general. Bad PR for the good guys. But then again, if the enemy thinks that Marines are heartless killers, maybe that's not such a bad thing either.


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## Red Baroness (Mar 8, 2008)

I can't even WATCH this video. I don't dare. To perpetrate cruel and sadistic acts on any helpless being, animal or human, is wrong and should be punished to the fullest of the law.

Legal hunting I am fine with. War I am fine with. Animal, elder and child abuse just makes me reach for the saber.

I have several friends who rescue abused animals; some of the horses they rescued are at the boarding stable where I keep my horse; these poor creatures are still frightened by the smallest things, and we try daily to mitigate their fears. 

In fact, I don't think any of the animals my parents or I are feeder persons to have been from the best of circumstances; shelter animals, abused dogs left and abandoned, kittens who have witnessed their littermates being killed by humans...but every single ONE of these pets that's been adopted has made a full turnaround and is now trusting of us, and the humans we interact with. My mom's Staffordshire/Lab/Shepherd mix is actually now part-timing as a therapy dog for elderly people and disabled children; it's a job he loves with his whole body.

Michael Vick got off easy, way too easy. But it is heartwarming to know that some of the dogs that were mistreated have now found new homes and are happy, healthy and loving again.

How can we, as "advanced beings" still stoop to such lows and treat our fellow humans and our companion animals with such meanness? I will never know the answer to that, it seems.


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## Freebird (Mar 8, 2008)

evangilder said:


> Njaco, you hit the nail on the head. Cruelty to animals is a sadistic behavior and it will crossover into other parts of the perp's life. There are many questions about this video and no matter what is determined to be the truth in this case, someone will doubt it or scream injustice. It's really a no win situation for the Marines involved and Marines in general. Bad PR for the good guys. But then again, if the enemy thinks that Marines are heartless killers, maybe that's not such a bad thing either.



It does seem like they "faked" throwing the puppy as a joke. I think this might be similar to those "trophy" photos of Marines standing over a dead insurgent. It's understandable from the point of view of a soldier under stress in a combat zone, but the public back home is shocked.

In both cases the "real crime" is the bonehead that allowed the video to get out on the net. {PR nightmare}


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Mar 10, 2008)

I suspect "Motari" didn't put that video up. But perhaps a friend of his did, perhaps a friend who's not in the military?

I wish we could find out the name and get over the suspense. 

But at least the fury has died down somewhat.


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## mkloby (Mar 10, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> On that I disagree with. Do animals not feel pain?
> 
> In my opinion the full book should be thrown at people who are cruel to animals (I am not talking about legit hunting). They are living beings as well.
> 
> ...



I agree with part of what you say - but many animals out there will tear a human to pieces. Where animals are afforded absurd protection is when a gator comes onto your property in FL and you can't kill it or else you'll be prosecuted - you have to make a telephone call and wait until a warden comes. You can kill a damn human in FL for threatening you for pete's sake! Again - it's only an animal.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 10, 2008)

mkloby said:


> I agree with part of what you say - but many animals out there will tear a human to pieces. Where animals are afforded absurd protection is when a gator comes onto your property in FL and you can't kill it or else you'll be prosecuted - you have to make a telephone call and wait until a warden comes. You can kill a damn human in FL for threatening you for pete's sake!



No, there is a difference between self defence and being cruel to animals. You can not even compare it. If you abuse an animal for the hell of it, the book should be thrown at you.

Again it does not compare.




mkloby said:


> Again - it's only an animal.



No...

I am actually surprised to hear you say that. Didn't god create these poor animals that you are talking about?


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## mkloby (Mar 10, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> No, there is a difference between self defence and being cruel to animals. You can not even compare it. If you abuse an animal for the hell of it, the book should be thrown at you.
> 
> Again it does not compare.


These are the problems that I have - I think you and I agree for the most part, but where we might disagree is where to set the limits of animal protection. It's not that clear always as self defense/cruelty, and these are problems I have with the Endangered Species Act. It prohibits the trafficking and such of the listed species, and rightfully so. But there's more to it. You kill one of those protected animals, and you must prove by a proponderance of the evidence that you acted in self defense. Now, what about protection of your property? You have to allow that animal to destroy your property so long as it does not cause you or threaten to cause you bodily harm? Why is the onus on the defendant to prove that he acted in self defense, and it not on the government to prove that you did not act in self defense? 




DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I am actually surprised to hear you say that. Didn't god create these poor animals that you are talking about?




Why use the description "poor animal?" That just tugs at the heartstrings. In cases where someone commits a blatant act of cruelty, such as in this video if it is real, I completely agree with you, don't get me wrong. But I believe people go way overboard in the protections that they wish afforded to animals, which I said above. I'm not saying cruelty towards God's creatures is ok - it's absolutely not. Humans must be responsible custodians of the Earth, including all forms of life.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 10, 2008)

mkloby said:


> These are the problems that I have - I think you and I agree for the most part, but where we might disagree is where to set the limits of animal protection. It's not that clear always as self defense/cruelty, and these are problems I have with the Endangered Species Act. It prohibits the trafficking and such of the listed species, and rightfully so. But there's more to it. You kill one of those protected animals, and you must prove by a proponderance of the evidence that you acted in self defense. Now, what about protection of your property? You have to allow that animal to destroy your property so long as it does not cause you or threaten to cause you bodily harm? Why is the onus on the defendant to prove that he acted in self defense, and it not on the government to prove that you did not act in self defense?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I got you. I think we agree more than it seems.


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## Njaco (Mar 11, 2008)

Being an Animal Control Officer, our first job is to protect the public then to protect the animal. But Mkloby, I understand you're point. I agree that although I love animals and what I do, sometimes it does go overboard and then again sometimes not enough.

I once got someone 90 days in jail for abusing a rabbit while another time somebody who let 35 horses almost starve to death was let go on a technicallity. The way of the court system is not as clear cut as everyone would like and what is said is a punishment sometimes in the end comes out different.

But people do go overboard for animal stories. Especially after Katrina. Man you should see the training we're going through up here just to be ready for the next. But my bitch is that the only stories that people react to are the ones the media decides to show. That video is horrible if true but people do even worse things right here in the states - to animals and humans.


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## Soren (Mar 11, 2008)

If the video is all real then these guys should be thrown in jail! Yes, I know that's harsh but what they did was downright evil and inhumane, and who knows what they'll think of next ??

That puppy would've been just as scared as any Human in that situation, and it would've hurt just as much!

Like Adler I'm no greenie tree hugger and I have nothing against hunting (I hunt myself), but that video is just downright despicable!

If the video is not real, well then all I can say is *What a Freaking dumb move!*, cause these guys will have angry people all over them!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 11, 2008)

Soren said:


> If the video is all real then these guys should be thrown in jail! Yes, I know that's harsh but what they did was downright evil and inhumane, and who knows what they'll think of next ??



It is not harsh at all. If they actually threw the puppy they deserve jail and a dishonorable discharge.

Is that harsh? I dont think so. They are military soldiers and in my opinion should be held to a higher standard.


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## Njaco (Mar 11, 2008)

And if anybody should get a wrong impression of military soldiers there is this. Of course it won't be splashed across the net and media like the video.


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## ToughOmbre (Mar 11, 2008)

Good point Njaco. And the American soldier will *always* get the benefit of the doubt from me.

TO


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## magnocain (Mar 11, 2008)

That was a pretty nice looking puppy to find _in the middle of the desert_.
And it did look awfully stiff...


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## Matt308 (Mar 11, 2008)

We had a high profile example here in the Pacific Northwest of animal rights extremism gone goof. A family who lived in the Olympic Mountain area (not in the state/federal forest proper) owned a house where an eagle built a nest in their back acreage. According to some silly state/federal law, they were then not allowed to change one iota of their property withing 400yds. No logging, no landscaping, not planting... nothing.

I would have shot that effing eagle out of spite and willingly went to jail.


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