# unknown puzzle again



## Snautzer01 (May 3, 2015)

Fokker T.V perhaps?

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## Njaco (May 3, 2015)

Engines look Italian maybe?


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## Wurger (May 3, 2015)

Too many "windows" for the Fokker T.V methinks.


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## Snautzer01 (May 3, 2015)

I know but some were captured. perhaps nose rebuild?


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## fubar57 (May 3, 2015)

Looks like a Fokker but I can't narrow down the model.

Geo


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## Wurger (May 3, 2015)

Snautzer01 said:


> I know but some were captured. perhaps nose rebuild?



I didn't mean the nose glass but the cockpit conopy.


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## fubar57 (May 3, 2015)

Yep...too much canopy. I saw 1/72 T.ix with what looked like a lot of glass in the canopy but the photo was too small.

Geo


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## Wurger (May 3, 2015)

T.IX didn't have these small bulges on the engine cowling IMHO.


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## Snautzer01 (May 3, 2015)

Ahhh i see what you mean. You are right


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## nuuumannn (May 3, 2015)

Its neither a Fokker T.V or T.IX; both have different undercarriage struts to this. The T.V's are heavier and the T.IX has a single strut. Hmm, Chris' suggestion of Italian looking engine nacelles is plauseable...


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## nuuumannn (May 3, 2015)

Taking a more detailed look at the image. It certainly looks European; it has obvious Western European features; the conventional layout of mid wing, twin engined , twin fins, lengthy glazed canopy makes it look a little conventional in appearance for a French design, although that is a generalisation albeit supported by the typical oddball appearance of French bombers of the era. It looks like it has Italian style nacelles, but Italian aircraft of the period were largely (although not all) mixed media, metal, wood and fabric and this is all-metal by the looks of things, although the mainplanes might be wood - hard to tell. Its unusual nasal glasing makes it look Dutch, but this appears unique. Is the leading edge strip of the glasing solid? Was it intended for a moveable gun? If so there are no fittings and the centre strip is too wide to be open to the oncoming airflow. It's certainly not a turret, like the Boulton Paul Overstrand - no visible areas for movement of the nose glasing. There appears to be a cut out window for the bomb aimer aft of the front glasing in its belly and forward of the external bomb racks. These are of unusual disposition as they look like they could carry very small bombs only. Its also hard to tell whether there is internal stowage capacity for bombs or whether it carried its entire load externally. 

There also appears to be a circular aperture just aft of the nose glasing, a camera port is most likely. A bomber/reconnaissance type or is the camera for photographing the target area after bomb release? Most likely the former. Looking at the shadow on the ground, it looks like considerable care has been taken at streamlining, yet still being functional, the lengthy canopy glasing contains two, maybe three personnel; pilot, radio operator, rear gunner - the shadow shows no other appendages along the fuselage - that is assuming there is a rear cockpit gun, which is likely. This makes it rather lightly armed; a rear moveable gun and possibly a nose gun? The Helmeted cowls suggest streamlining measures, so the machine was designed with speed in mind, although an external bomb load increases drag, which does suggest that the bombing role is possibly light attack rather than level bombing, also supported by the fact that the bombs carried cannot be very big. I'm thinking a crew of three or four - one further in the nose for the camera and bomb aiming. A 'multi-role' machine, reconnaissance light bomber?

Taking a closer look at the nose, there does appear to be a large boxy object in the extreme nose that reaches in height up to the fuselage glasing just aft of the nose glasing; the camera, I think, which leads me to suspect the machine might not have been designed with a nose gun in mind, otherwise the fellow in front is leaning rather uncomfortably over the camera to fire the gun. This is also supported by the fact that there are no fittings visible for the mounting of a nose gun. So, one gun only for rear defence? Again, this supports my theory that this machine was designed for speed -note also flush rivetting in place round the nose. This makes me think that perhaps the aeroplane was designed with reconnaissance as its principal role and light bombing as secondary; the bomb racks do look like an add-on. Below the wing box could contain fuel cells - a strategic recon platform, perhaps?

Another notable feature is the pitot tube is mounted quite away from the nose into an ideal position for undisturbed airflow for accurate readings. The shadows suggest a elliptical fin shape with tailplane mounted on top of the rear fuselage. The mid mounted wing looks tapered in shadow, but is relatively thin chord with nacelles long enough only to contain the undercarriage, not protruding aft of the wing trailing edge. The undercarriage is completely enclosed, not protruding below the nacelles, which was a typical feature of the time, so having a completely enclosed undercarriage again points to a 'speed machine'. The air intakes under the engine cowls are unusual, a smaller forward one and larger after one; Is the bigger one suggesting a supercharger, perhaps?

Its obviously fitted with radio equipment, although no other avionics visible apart from the HF aerial on top of the canopy. Unusual that there is no DF acorn fairing visible; the DF loop could be in the canopy glasing, perhaps not fitted at all? A medium to long range modern machine would likely have DF and this, to all intents and purposes is a very modern by contemporary standards, machine.

All-in-all, a clean looking aeroplane with obvious drag reduction measures carried out in its design, light in defensive armament and warload, with typical appearance for what a 'high performance' machine of the mid to late 1930s would look like.

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## GrauGeist (May 3, 2015)

At first glance I thought it looked alot like a Tupolev SB 2M variant...interesting


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## nuuumannn (May 3, 2015)

Funny, Dave, I had a thought about Russian, but came to the conclusion it was too neat. I thought perhaps a derivative of the Illyushin DB3 family; there was a high altitude recon variant with a pressurised cabin up front, but no top glasing, like this, but the DB3s were low wing, not mid wing. It certainly looks a similar size to the SB family, but again, too clean in appearance. Undercarriage was single stalk and the wheels protruded out the rear of the nacelles on the SBs. Perhaps an Easter European manufacturer? Rumanian? Not Polish; doesn't 'look' Polish. Czech? Although doesn't resemble any known Czech designs...


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## GrauGeist (May 3, 2015)

Don't rule out the possability of a Czech type...Avia built some types of the SB 2M.

And speaking of the 2M, they made quite a few varients with several different engine combinations.

Also, in looking at that photo, is that a torpedo rack there under the fuselage?


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## nuuumannn (May 3, 2015)

It could be Czech, haven't ruled that out. It's not a derivative of the SB family though. Definitely not, too little in common structurally. It has twin fins, different undercarriage, the fuse is not circular in shape, the wing is too thin, the nacelles are not the right shape; they would have had to have redesigned practically the whole aeroplane.

The racks underneath appear to be two rows, rather than one and they look a little too close to one another to be able to carry two torpedoes, but too far apart to be for just one. You can see bomb mountings on the right hand aft bracket next to the second 'b' upright in the word 'bubu', suggesting individual bombs on each. These are also visible on the left hand forward rack. I'd say four bomb racks.


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## nuuumannn (May 4, 2015)

I had a thought that it could be Swedish, perhaps a SAAB project related to the B.18, but that aircraft has a very Teutonic, almost 'Dornier' look to it, with an offset cockpit, though. The fuse of our mystery aeroplane is quite deep and the SAAB has a shoulder mounted wing, so not related, well, not as a direct derivative, anyway.


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## Capt. Vick (May 4, 2015)

I'm stumped!


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## GrauGeist (May 4, 2015)

I am pretty much baffled, too...

It certainly looks like there's French, Dutch and Russian influence.


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## nuuumannn (May 4, 2015)

I thought I might give a wee sketch a go; this is a possible interpretation of what we can see; it's a bit scrappy, mind and the wings and fin shape are purely hypothetical; the latter based on the shadow outline. Any thoughts/alterations?






Having looked at it again, I've lengthened the rear fuse a bit and it looks more in proportion...


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## Wurger (May 4, 2015)

I would say you are very close to the origin design. Also I would say the cockpit conopy should be more "square" especially at the front area. I mean it could be similar to the one of Bf 110.


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## herman1rg (May 4, 2015)

I think it's a Tupolev of some sort perhaps the SB


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## GrauGeist (May 4, 2015)

herman1rg said:


> I think it's a Tupolev of some sort perhaps the SB
> 
> View attachment 291559


We've pretty much ruled out the SB 2M, as the radial version may be close, but look at the "greenhouse" cockpit compartment which is extremely large, much like a few Japanese aircraft, the Bf110 or an ANBO


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## Wurger (May 4, 2015)

Sorry but I'm afraid it isn't any of SB bombers. The fuselage is of different shape in cross section.


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## fubar57 (May 4, 2015)

I was looking at the Avia B-71 as well but the landing gear is wrong.

Geo


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## GrauGeist (May 4, 2015)

fubar57 said:


> I was looking at the Avia B-71 as well but the landing gear is wrong.
> 
> Geo


The Avia B-71 is a license-built SB 2M


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## GrauGeist (May 4, 2015)

Mystery solved, it is German, afterall! 

It is a Henschel Hs124 bomber prototype that was proposed in 1934 to the RLM request for a KampfZerstorer. It competed against the Fw57 and the Ju85/88.

The Hs124 V1 looked alot like the Martin 166 (B-10) and was one of the few German bombers with a nose turret. Our mystery Hs124 is the V2 with BMW 132 radials and a redesigned maingear.

Hs124 V1 WkNmr 0268 and V4 WkNmr unk had a nose turret, streamlined cockpit and watercooled V engines. Our specimen, V2 WkNmr 0269, had a "greenhouse" cockpit, stubbed nose and radial engines and a special bomb-release system under the fuselage.

Only V4 survived beyond 1938, being transferred to E-Stelle Travemunde in February 1939, the rest were scrapped.

*Hs124 V2*










*For comparison, Hs124 V1*

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## fubar57 (May 4, 2015)

Outstanding Dave.


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## GrauGeist (May 4, 2015)

fubar57 said:


> Outstanding Dave.


Thanks!

Gotta love these mysteries...sort of like a super version of the "What Is It?" game!


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## Wurger (May 4, 2015)

Great. Congrats Dave. 

To be honest I have been thinking about a German plane because of tyres that look just like the German ones used during WW2.


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## GrauGeist (May 4, 2015)

Wurger said:


> Great. Congrats Dave.
> 
> To be honest I have been thinking about a German plane *because of tyres that look just like the German ones* used during WW2.


That is exactly what turned me back to digging through German prototype archives...the main gear and the tires!


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## Snautzer01 (May 4, 2015)

nuuumannn sketch is spot on. Well done !!

And on another note well done the id and we have here i think the best hs124 pic on the net.

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## Wurger (May 4, 2015)

GrauGeist said:


> That is exactly what turned me back to digging through German prototype archives...the main gear and the tires!


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## Capt. Vick (May 4, 2015)

NO WAY! Excellent Dave! Great detective work brother!

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## vikingBerserker (May 4, 2015)

Well done Dave!

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## Crimea_River (May 4, 2015)

Kudos Dave! Excellent detective work.

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## nuuumannn (May 4, 2015)

Outstanding result Dave! Hadn't looked in that direction! I had made alterations to my drawing and was going to post today, but no need now. Great work and excellent find, too, Snautzer. The kind of thing that makes this forum great.

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## nuuumannn (May 4, 2015)

Wasn't far off in my assessment. It's a bit slow, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henschel_Hs_124

Henschel Hs 124 - fighter, fighter-bomber


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## GrauGeist (May 4, 2015)

Thanks guys...this was a heck of a challenge!



nuuumannn said:


> Wasn't far off in my assessment. It's a bit slow, though.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henschel_Hs_124
> 
> Henschel Hs 124 - fighter, fighter-bomber


That was a great drawing, you had it nailed!

By the way, that wiki page is terrible. It has some drawing of the aircraft, barely any information and what info it has is largely incorrect.

My post describing what the mystery aircraft was has far more information (and photos)...

Just read the Aviastar page and it too, is coming up short on info, unfortunately.


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## nuuumannn (May 4, 2015)

yeah, a quick look in a Luftwaffe book of my own revealed far more info, but I didn't want to write it all down, so I took the lazy option. The wiki one shows the drawing I did is close to the original; the second drawing I did was closer, though. You can add to the Aviastar website, which is a bonus if you find inaccuracies, which you will.


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## GrauGeist (May 4, 2015)

Go ahead and post that second drawing, let's see how it turned out!


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## nuuumannn (May 5, 2015)

It's the same drawing, not much alteration really, just a tweak of the engine nacelle and the fin shape to match the shadow a bit better, and I made the gun a bit smaller, that's all.

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## GrauGeist (May 5, 2015)

I'd say you had that dead-on. 

If I hadn't figured it out, your artwork definitely would have pointed us in the right direction!


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## Njaco (May 8, 2015)

Thats awesome! And I was looking at the tail configuration thinking; "You know, the Germans loved that type of tail" and just never followed up! Excellent detective work!


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## Capt. Vick (May 8, 2015)

Very nice!


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## Wayne Little (May 9, 2015)

very cool!


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 17, 2015)

I found an i think not published picture of the Hs124


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## nuuumannn (Jun 17, 2015)

A completely different look to the previous pictures.

Oh, wait a minute, that's not an Hs 124 at all. Its the Messerschmitt Bf 161 V2.

Messerschmitt Bf 161

Are you playing tricks on us, Snautzer?


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## GrauGeist (Jun 17, 2015)

I agree...Bf161 V2


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## Wurger (Jun 18, 2015)

Second in that.


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 18, 2015)

nuuumannn said:


> Are you playing tricks on us, Snautzer?



 no just in a hurry that day


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 29, 2019)

Foto WK II Wehrmacht Aufnahme eines Eindecker Flugzeugs auf einem Flugplatz | eBay


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## Gastounet (Jan 29, 2019)

It is a french ANF Les Mureaux 115/117

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## Wurger (Jan 29, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Mar 4, 2019)

Vintage WWII Airplane plane Original Photo Photograph Airfield | eBay


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## fubar57 (Mar 4, 2019)

Looks very Klemmish

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## Snautzer01 (Mar 4, 2019)

i would think something British looks a bit like moth minor bus landing gear is different 
.


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## Crimea_River (Mar 4, 2019)

I'm putting my money with Geo. Klemm Kl 35 I would say.

EDIT. No gull wing though so I'll take it back.


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## fubar57 (Mar 4, 2019)

....and something not quite right in the tail area as well


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## Crimea_River (Mar 4, 2019)

We have to take the perspective of the pic into account as it's taken at an angle to the print making things look squashed vertically.


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## GrauGeist (Mar 4, 2019)

My first impression was a Bücker Bü180, but I agree that the photo not being flat makes it a bit difficult.


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## GrauGeist (Mar 5, 2019)

Or...perhaps a Zlin Z-XII open cockpit trainer (with the Micron engine).


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## fubar57 (Mar 5, 2019)

Zlin was my second choice but Google isn't cooperating

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## GrauGeist (Mar 5, 2019)

There really isn't a good view of the Z-XII open cockpit trainer with the Micron engine, but...the angle of the tail (and supports), the narrow extended nose and the landing gear all fit the photo.

The Bucker is real close, but I'm leaning towards the Zlin.

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## Graeme (Mar 5, 2019)

Nice hunting Dave. 

Kinda like the Zlin Z-212, as you mentioned, but the photo angle seems to distort the nose?

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## GrauGeist (Mar 5, 2019)

The warped photo isn't much help, Graeme, but your illustration is spot on.

My Criteria was the inlet beneath the prop, the maingear structure and the angle of the horizontal stabilizer (along with the supports).
While it had a taste of Bucker about it, the Zlin airframe with the Micron engine had those distinctive louvers in the cowl unlike the versions with the Persy or ZLAS engines.


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## Wurger (Mar 5, 2019)

the pic source: Čs. letouny s německými znaky


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## Drifter (Mar 8, 2019)

*Henschel Hs 124*


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## Wurger (Mar 8, 2019)

Where?


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## GrauGeist (Mar 8, 2019)

Drifter said:


> *Henschel Hs 124*


The Hs124 was a twin-engine "Zerstorer" proposal to the RLM's 1934 request for a "Kampfzerstorer".
The Bf110 won the proposal, beating both Henschel's design and Focke-Wulf's Fw57.

The aircraft seen above looks nothing like a twin-engined heavy fighter...


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 22, 2019)

??
DOUGLAS A-20 TYPE ATTACK BOMBER? ~ FACTORY PRODUCTION ~ c. - 1939 | eBay

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## Graeme (Mar 22, 2019)

Snautzer - I reckon it's the Allied XLRA-1 amphibious glider...

Allied Aviation XLRA - Wikipedia

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## Wurger (Mar 22, 2019)

I agree.


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## vikingBerserker (Mar 22, 2019)

Dang, you beat me to the draw!


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## fubar57 (Mar 27, 2019)

Good stuff Graeme


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 28, 2019)

Foto, letztes Gespräch und dann Abflug (N)19457 | eBay


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 31, 2019)

srry pleas ignore/delete


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## Romantic Technofreak (Apr 7, 2019)

My bid is a Potez 63.




BTW, the uniforms look German, but are not. The soldiers could be Romanians. The Potez 63 was in Romanian use.

Regards, RT

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## DBII (Apr 7, 2019)

Nice thread guys.


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 11, 2019)




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## Crimea_River (Apr 11, 2019)

I'm going to suggest the Me210 V1 which had rectangular supercharger intakes.


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## Snautzer01 (May 2, 2019)

Foto, abgestürztes Flugzeug, Soldaten L1.56 | eBay


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## Graeme (May 2, 2019)

Hi Snautzer. I was thinking Bristol Bombay..........?

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## Wurger (May 2, 2019)

I agree. a Bristol 130 Bombay.




















the pic source: 
Bristol Bombay L5808
Bureau of Aircraft Accidents Archives
Welcome to Dan's Hangar

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## Snautzer01 (May 7, 2019)

Foto, Luftwaffe, Flugzeug mit Emblem des II./J.G.54, Nahaufnahme | eBay


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## Wurger (May 7, 2019)




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## Graeme (May 9, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Foto, Luftwaffe, Flugzeug mit Emblem des II./J.G.54, Nahaufnahme | eBay



Hi Snauter. I'm wondering if this is the rare "Kanopied Klemm" (note the crank-wing) that Dave and George discovered back in 2016?...

Unknown aircraft


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 15, 2019)

ORIGINAL FOTO FLUGZEUG 3 MOTORIGER US TRANSPORTER | eBay


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## Graeme (Aug 1, 2019)

The Ugly Duckling is the Raider...

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## fubar57 (Aug 1, 2019)

Good stuff Graeme


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## Graeme (Aug 1, 2019)

Cheers Geo.

I've got one. I saw it in the far corner of a photo in a magazine recently. I'm 90% certain of what it is, based on where I found it, but I'm interested to see what you guys think.

Late 40's USSR....


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## Capt. Vick (Aug 1, 2019)

Mikoyan-Gurevich I-270

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## fubar57 (Aug 1, 2019)

I think you nailed it Jim


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## Graeme (Aug 2, 2019)

Cheers Jim. I thought the same. 
Lots of clues, but nothing in the caption, probably too small...


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 2, 2019)

Well done Jim!


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## Capt. Vick (Aug 2, 2019)




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## Snautzer01 (Sep 7, 2019)

MD412 Foto Wehrmacht Luftwaffe Flugzeug Typ ? Beute Motor Detail auf Eisenbahn | eBay
MD411 Foto Wehrmacht Luftwaffe Flugzeug Typ ? Beute Motor Detail auf Eisenbahn | eBay


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## buffnut453 (Sep 7, 2019)

Henschel Hs126?


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## Snautzer01 (Jan 26, 2020)

Foto Beute Flugzeug Wk 2 Frankreich | eBay

Looks soviet


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## Wurger (Jan 26, 2020)

This is a Yak-4 initially marked as Yak-2. However, the small air intake at the side engine nacelle and the shape of the exhaust pipe indicate the M-103 engine. So it should be the Yak-2 rather bacuse Yak-4 was powered by the M-105 engines. The M-105 nacelles had the air intakes removed from sides and moved to the bottom and front of them.

Yak-2




the pic source: Яковлев Як-2

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## Snautzer01 (Apr 12, 2020)

FO15 Foto Flugzeug KLM holländische Kennung Druckpropeller zwei Seitenleitwerke | eBay

Fokker?? de Schelde??


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## Gastounet (Apr 12, 2020)

Fokker F25 promoter


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## Snautzer01 (Apr 12, 2020)

Dont think so difoga 421 looks also the same.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 12, 2020)

That's a Stearman-Hammond Y-1

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## Snautzer01 (Apr 12, 2020)

Bingo ! very well done.


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## Wurger (Apr 12, 2020)




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## fubar57 (Apr 12, 2020)

Well done Dave


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## GrauGeist (Apr 12, 2020)

Thanks guys!

I beleive the one pictured, was KLM's trainer (pre-war).


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## Gastounet (Apr 12, 2020)

The designer of the difroga asked to Fokker to build his plane, but it was not very good, and was improved to become the F25 promoter.


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 24, 2020)

2 WK Foto Wehrmacht Luftwaffe? | eBay

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## rochie (Jun 24, 2020)

I think thats Italian, piaggio or something?


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## Graeme (Jun 24, 2020)

Hi Snautzer.
Definitely the British Planet Satellite.

Planet Satellite - Wikipedia

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## rochie (Jun 24, 2020)

Graeme said:


> Hi Snautzer.
> Definitely the British Planet Satellite.
> 
> Planet Satellite - Wikipedia


Ah, didnt know about that one, well done


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 24, 2020)

Indeed. Never heard of this one. Thanks for the i.d.


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## fubar57 (Jun 24, 2020)

Good stuff Graeme


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## GrauGeist (Jun 24, 2020)

Graeme said:


> Hi Snautzer.
> Definitely the British Planet Satellite.
> 
> Planet Satellite - Wikipedia


Well done, Sir!

At first glance, I suspected something from the DFS workshop.


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 24, 2020)

There was an Italian one that looks similar to that, but it was all silver. IIRC they were looking at making it fly again?


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## Crimea_River (Jun 24, 2020)

vikingBerserker said:


> There was an Italian one that looks similar to that, but it was all silver. IIRC they were looking at making it fly again?



That would be the Bugatti 100P maybe.

Aviation’s Sexiest Racer | History | Air & Space Magazine


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## GrauGeist (Jun 24, 2020)

There certainly is a resemblance between the two.


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 24, 2020)

That's it, thanks!


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## WARSPITER (Jul 1, 2020)

Snautzer01 said:


> Foto, letztes Gespräch und dann Abflug (N)19457 | eBay
> 
> View attachment 533381





Late war Engine less prototype - "When we push this over the cliff make sure you are already pedalling like hell".


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## Snautzer01 (May 23, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> Dont think so difoga 421 looks also the same.


FOTO FLUGZEUG DIFOGA 421 | eBay

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## Crimea_River (May 23, 2021)

Could almost be a modern kit plane.


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## GrauGeist (May 23, 2021)

Crimea_River said:


> Could almost be a modern kit plane.


Agreed.
The foreward fuselage almost has a Beechcraft feel to it.


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## Airframes (May 23, 2021)

At a guess, I'd say it's a product from Fokker, in Holland. Certainly a Dutch registration.


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## Gnomey (May 26, 2021)

Nice shots!


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## CATCH 22 (May 26, 2021)

Airframes said:


> At a guess, I'd say it's a product from Fokker, in Holland. Certainly a Dutch registration.


The type of this a/c is already given by the ebay-seller (and this time correctly!): *Difoga 421*.
I've seen this airplane before and it has a very art-deco (or shall I say retro-futuristic) look for me.
For more photos check here.

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## Graeme (Jun 17, 2021)

*?*


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## Capt. Vick (Jun 17, 2021)

Arado something or other?


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## GrauGeist (Jun 17, 2021)

Hmmm...perhaps Heinkel He50 dive-bombers?


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## Graeme (Jun 25, 2021)

Capt. Vick said:


> Arado something or other?





GrauGeist said:


> Hmmm...perhaps Heinkel He50 dive-bombers?



Thanks Jim and Dave. Remains elusive. I think the light is affecting the fin shape?


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## Graeme (Jun 25, 2021)

Here's another. 100% certain it's German, based on where I found it - but no identifying caption.

*?*


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## Airframes (Jun 26, 2021)

At a guess, a Focke Wulf Steiglitz.


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 26, 2021)

Graeme said:


> *?*
> 
> View attachment 628806
> 
> View attachment 628807


I think heinkel he-45 light bomber


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 26, 2021)

Airframes said:


> At a guess, a Focke Wulf Steiglitz.











Gerätebrett Focke-Wulf FW 44 | Deutscheluftwaffe







www.deutscheluftwaffe.de


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## Graeme (Jun 26, 2021)

Cheers for the responses! Fw-44 looks a very promising match.


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## nuuumannn (Jun 26, 2021)

Graeme said:


> Thanks Jim and Dave. Remains elusive. I think the light is affecting the fin shape?



I'm inclined to believe He 45, He 50 has a mass of struttery for its main gear and had round engines.



Graeme said:


> Cheers for the responses! Fw-44 looks a very promising match.



It certainly looks like it, mind you, there's not much to go on.




Fw 44


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 26, 2021)

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## nuuumannn (Jun 26, 2021)

It's a CAC Wirraway. A closer look at the pic reveals the watermark emblem of the Australian War Memorial at the lower right-hand corner.

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## Wurger (Jun 26, 2021)

Yep, a quite well know pic of a series with the plane... Laverton, Vic. 1940-02-09. A Wirraway aircraft of No. 21 Squadron RAAF, in flight. Pilot is 251382 Flying Officer James Herbert Harper; observer/gunner believed to be 3488 Sergeant H.F. Hogens. A20-21

















the pic source: 








A Wirraway, A20-21, of No 21 Squadron RAAF, flying over Melbourne. The pilot of this aircraft is ...







www.awm.gov.au












CAC Wirraway - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org









Wirraway Photo History - Fleet Air Arm Association of Australia







www.faaaa.asn.au












CA-1 A20 CAC Wirraway formation.


Three CA-1 A20 CAC Wirraway aircraft (A20-21, A20-22, and possibly A20-23) flying in formation, part of No. 21 Squadron, Royal Australian Air Force, based at Laverton, Victoria. There is a pilot and gunner in each of the aircraft. CA-1 is the model number assigned to the first 40 Wirraway...




collections.slsa.sa.gov.au

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## VERSUCH (Jun 27, 2021)

Graeme said:


> Here's another. 100% certain it's German, based on where I found it - but no identifying caption.
> 
> *?*
> 
> ...


Bu 131D


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## nuuumannn (Jun 27, 2021)

Wurger said:


> Yep, a quite well know pic of a series with the plane... Laverton, Vic. 1940-02-09. A Wirraway aircraft of No. 21 Squadron RAAF, in flight. Pilot is 251382 Flying Officer James Herbert Harper; observer/gunner believed to be 3488 Sergeant H.F. Hogens. A20-21



21 Sqn Wirraways, the unit was the second to receive the type and it can be identified by the squadron code 'R'.

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## Snautzer01 (Jun 29, 2021)

WORLD WAR ONE: UNKNOWN AIRCRAFT ORIGINAL R.A.F PHOTOGRAPH OCT 1928 | eBay


5TH OCT 1928. UNKNOWN AIRCRAFT ORIGINAL R.A.F PHOTOGRAPH. WORLD WAR ONE.



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## Snautzer01 (Jun 29, 2021)

Foto Flugzeug mit Kennung Nummer Doppeldecker K3787 | eBay


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fast looking bird 2222

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## Wurger (Jun 29, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> Foto Flugzeug mit Kennung Nummer Doppeldecker K3787 | eBay
> 
> 
> Entdecken Sie Foto Flugzeug mit Kennung Nummer Doppeldecker K3787 in der großen Auswahl bei eBay. Kostenlose Lieferung für viele Artikel!
> ...



D-2222 ... Darmstadt D-22a. She participated in the Challenge 1932. The crew : the pilot - Walter Marienfeld, the aircraft mechanic - Fritz.













the source: Zbiory NAC on-line

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## Wurger (Jun 29, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> WORLD WAR ONE: UNKNOWN AIRCRAFT ORIGINAL R.A.F PHOTOGRAPH OCT 1928 | eBay
> 
> 
> 5TH OCT 1928. UNKNOWN AIRCRAFT ORIGINAL R.A.F PHOTOGRAPH. WORLD WAR ONE.
> ...



The Hawker Horsley - a bomber ....





The source: File:Hawker Horsley Bomber.jpg - Wikipedia

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## special ed (Jun 29, 2021)

The Darmstadt is impressive as the only struts are the cabane struts keeping the wing on with no rigging wires.


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## Wurger (Jun 29, 2021)

Yep.. a guite interesting construction. The top wing is moved more forward in relation to the bottom one.


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## SaparotRob (Jun 29, 2021)

Wurger said:


> D-2222 ... Darmstadt D-22a. She participated in the Challenge 1932. The crew : the pilot - Walter Marienfeld, the aircraft mechanic - Fritz.
> 
> View attachment 630369
> 
> ...


That is one I've never seen before. Nice looking little machine.


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## Crimea_River (Jun 30, 2021)

Good stuff guys.


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## Capt. Vick (Jul 1, 2021)

It looks like it sounds

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 28, 2021)

Wehrmacht Piloten Ausbildung 1941 Original Foto | eBay


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## Wurger (Aug 28, 2021)

IMHO that's a two-seater BFW M.35 ( Messerschmitt M35 )





the source: the net.

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## Snautzer01 (Apr 25, 2022)

WW2 Original Photo U.S. B-17 Crashed Bomber being Repaired | eBay


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## Wurger (Apr 25, 2022)

That's the Italian Piaggio P.108 heavy bomber. IMHO the P.108B serie II.

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## SaparotRob (Apr 25, 2022)

Wurger said:


> That's the Italian Piaggio P.108 heavy bomber. IMHO the P.108B serie II.


Thanks. I was wondering what that was.


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## vikingBerserker (Apr 25, 2022)

I always thought it was a beautiful aircraft

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## GrauGeist (Apr 25, 2022)

The P.108 was actually an impressive heavy bomber with good range, heavy load and decent speed.

One was also was armed with one the largest weapon carried by a warplane, a 102mm cannon (though only one example and never used in combat).

It seems to me that the Germans could have adopted it instead of fooling around with all their various four-engined designs.


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## buffnut453 (Apr 25, 2022)

vikingBerserker said:


> I always thought it was a beautiful aircraft



Yes, but it would have benefited from a nose job.

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## vikingBerserker (Apr 25, 2022)




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## VERSUCH (Apr 25, 2022)

Bruno Mussolini Jr was killed testing one.


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 11, 2022)

why the markings?















Foto WK II Lufwaffe Nachtjagdgeschwader Pilot im Flugzeug NAG 3 #96 | eBay


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## Capt. Vick (Aug 11, 2022)

I believe they where some kind of metal strips adhered to the plexi-dome, and not painted on markings. Some kind of direction finder or some such kit. IIRC

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 12, 2022)

Capt. Vick said:


> I believe they where some kind of metal strips adhered to the plexi-dome, and not painted on markings. Some kind of direction finder or some such kit. IIRC


Picture is from a series depicting NAG 3


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 12, 2022)

Callin' 

 Wurger


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 12, 2022)

Is that a Fw-189?

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## Snautzer01 (Aug 12, 2022)

vikingBerserker said:


> Is that a Fw-189?


Yup.

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## CATCH 22 (Aug 12, 2022)

Capt. Vick said:


> I believe they where some kind of metal strips adhered to the plexi-dome, and not painted on markings. Some kind of direction finder or some such kit. IIRC


You are right: this is the *Peilgerät*-antenna* PeilG* *4*. The middle part is rotating in the same manner as the big loop-antenna on some a/c. The photo below is a PeilG used on Bf 109E night fighter as well, and is the same as on the Fw-189 photo:




As per the German description the stripes are an additional antenna (_Hilfsantenne_).
If you remember the big *Peilgerät* on Ju-88, it's basically the same:




Cheers!
P.S. Some seasons ago there was a discussion in the modeller's-section about a Bf 109E night fighter and I was searching for some more details, finding the above ones. There is also a PE-part manufactured by AML, representing this particular antenna:

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## vikingBerserker (Aug 12, 2022)

I had no idea they were used as night fighters, thanks!

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## CATCH 22 (Aug 12, 2022)

vikingBerserker said:


> I had no idea they were used as night fighters, thanks!


Check 10./NJG 1 for example. Older D-variant was also used in the same role.
Cheers!
P.S. I remembered a "fun-factor" as well. Many years ago I was checking photos of Bf-109E-Trop from several sources and found a "misterious one" from JG.27 in Sicily. The a/c had a"wart" under the belly and I didn't know what it is. Later on I came to the information about the PeilG and the night fighters. The "White 12" was one of them, but with no night use. You still can see the stripes of the PeilG 4 though:

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