# Unbelievable



## billrunnels (Dec 23, 2017)

A number of years ago I served as the bombardier on a public forum featuring the Air Force. The panel included a pilot, navigator, bombardier and a tail gunner. Each of us had 10 to 15 minutes to share our duties on a heavy bomber crew. All went as planned until we got to the tail gunner and he stole the show. In his early comments he said he was credited with one half mission. His B-17 was involved in a mid-air accident on his first mission and the tail section was severed from the main frame of the aircraft. He snapped on his parachute and attempted to exit the escape hatch but it was jammed. The next thing he remembered was waking up in an enemy hospital. He rode the tail section to the ground and survived. I don't remember his name but I think his story made Ripley's "Believe It Or Not".

P.S. The panel was narrated by a local TV personality and video taped. They sent me a copy but apparently it has been lost in recent moves.

Reactions: Like Like:
5 | Winner Winner:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 23, 2017)

I've heard about that as well, I think it happened a few times. When I was a kid a neighbor (who was a B-17 FE) told a similar story. He said that the guy this happened to survived the ride and was eventually captured. His captors didn't believe him at first and couldn't locate the B-17 tail section but they did find a non deployed parachute close to his landing zone.

Reactions: Informative Informative:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## michaelmaltby (Dec 23, 2017)

This ...
10 Amazing Free Fall Survivors - free fall, vesna vulovic - Oddee


----------



## michaelmaltby (Dec 23, 2017)

And this one
Ivan Chisov - Wikipedia


----------



## billrunnels (Dec 23, 2017)

michaelmaltby said:


> This ...
> 10 Amazing Free Fall Survivors - free fall, vesna vulovic - Oddee


Thank you for sharing this information. Unfortunately, his name does not appear on this list.


----------



## michaelmaltby (Dec 23, 2017)

I should imagine that a detached 'tail section' -- waist gunners ports rearward? -- would tend to fall to earth much like an autumn leaf -- swirling downwards with some momentum. Would make for an interesting landing ... wonder if he strapped back in?


----------



## billrunnels (Dec 23, 2017)

michaelmaltby said:


> I should imagine that a detached 'tail section' -- waist gunners ports rearward? -- would tend to fall to earth much like an autumn leaf -- swirling downwards with some momentum. Would make for an interesting landing ... wonder if he strapped back in?


He didn't mention strapping back in.

Reactions: Informative Informative:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## pbehn (Dec 23, 2017)

Pat Brophy survived a crash in a burning Lancaster with no pilot or other crew on board, as a result he could nominate Andrew Mynarski for his V.C.
In WW1 there were several pilots leapt from burning aircraft and survived by landing in snow drifts or in one case I read, coils of barbed wire. 

The Andrew Mynarski Memorial Lancaster

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Informative Informative:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## airminded88 (Dec 23, 2017)

Real life could be much, much stranger than fiction for sure.
That's what I'd call a second lease on life!

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Greg Boeser (Dec 23, 2017)

I remember hearing that story on Al Malmberg's _World of Aviation._


----------



## billrunnels (Dec 23, 2017)

Greg Boeser said:


> I remember hearing that story on Al Malmberg's _World of Aviation._


Stan Turner was the TV personalty who narrated the forum which was held in a South St. Paul hotel.


----------



## pbehn (Dec 23, 2017)

They say if your number is up then that is it, for some people if their number isn't "up" they can survive almost anything.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Tim Moore (Dec 23, 2017)

From Edward Jablonski's "Flying Fortress": "...It was during this period that one of the most astonishing incidents involving a B-17 occured.
Sergeant James Raley of Henderson, Kentucky, was a B-17 tail gunner in the 15th Air Force. During the 'Big Week,' just as they were approaching the target, Raley heard over the intercom that they were at 19,000 feet. A moment later he was thrown violently around inside his gun position, and he heard a loud ripping noise. Peering through his window Raley could see another Fortress burning and nosing toward the ground. Apparently in the close formation there had been a collision.
Trapped inside the gun position, Raley could feel his plane spinning down also. The plane described crazy convolutions through the air as it toseeed around the sky on its way to earth. Raley knew he was falling from 19,000 feet and had no chance of getting out of the plane. He was sure he would die.
The erratic plunge stopped, although it must have seemed a lifetime to Raley, and he heard the sounds of sliding impact. This was it. Raley closed his eyes.
When he opened them he was amazed to see pine trees around him. They had made it! Then almost in panic, he began to fight his way out of the damaged plane, afraid of fire. Grabbing some candy and his shoes, he pushed his way through the bulkhead to get into the forward part of the plane.
There was no forward part of the plane. Raley had dropped 19,000 feet in the B-17's tail section. The collision had just cut the fuselage at the point where the part in which Raley was stationed formed an inefficient glider. By pure accident the distribution of weight in conjunction with the empennage formed a crude motorless aircraft. Part of the way Raley had glided and part of the way he was tossed end over end, but at the time of impact he was in a glide and thus did not hit with the force which could have killed him. The trees in which the tail section landed did the rest."
The story goes on to state that a similar incident was reported in a B-24. Raley walked for several weeks through Italy to rejoin his group. The other nine in his B-17 were never heard of again.

Reactions: Winner Winner:
1 | Informative Informative:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## Tim Moore (Dec 23, 2017)

Bill, was that the guy?


----------



## billrunnels (Dec 23, 2017)

Tim Moore said:


> From Edward Jablonski's "Flying Fortress": "...It was during this period that one of the most astonishing incidents involving a B-17 occured.
> Sergeant James Raley of Henderson, Kentucky, was a B-17 tail gunner in the 15th Air Force. During the 'Big Week,' just as they were approaching the target, Raley heard over the intercom that they were at 19,000 feet. A moment later he was thrown violently around inside his gun position, and he heard a loud ripping noise. Peering through his window Raley could see another Fortress burning and nosing toward the ground. Apparently in the close formation there had been a collision.
> Trapped inside the gun position, Raley could feel his plane spinning down also. The plane described crazy convolutions through the air as it toseeed around the sky on its way to earth. Raley knew he was falling from 19,000 feet and had no chance of getting out of the plane. He was sure he would die.
> The erratic plunge stopped, although it must have seemed a lifetime to Raley, and he heard the sounds of sliding impact. This was it. Raley closed his eyes.
> ...


No. The one on the forum was with the 8th. However their story's are similar.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## Shinpachi (Dec 24, 2017)

This story reminds me of a Ki-61 pilot who collided a B-29 crashed on the ground with his parachute which did not work.
My father witnessed it. Thanks for sharing, Bill. I feel as if I were a kid again

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## Gnomey (Dec 25, 2017)

Great stuff Bill!


----------



## Jimbob (Dec 29, 2017)

I remember my dad ( 11th AAF WW2) telling me of a crewman falling out of a B-24 ball turret at 10,000 feet into the ocean with no parachute and surviving.


----------



## billrunnels (Dec 29, 2017)

Jimbob said:


> I remember my dad ( 11th AAF WW2) telling me of a crewman falling out of a B-24 ball turret at 10,000 feet into the ocean with no parachute and surviving.


Thanks for sharing the story.


----------



## Jimbob (Dec 29, 2017)

I am glad to. I wish my dad told more of those stories before he passed. It is nice to hear them first hand from you.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## billrunnels (Dec 29, 2017)

Jimbob said:


> I am glad to. I wish my dad told more of those stories before he passed. It is nice to hear them first hand from you.


Thank you. Sharing my experience with interested forum members is an honor and pleasure.


----------



## Kaibutsu (Dec 29, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> Thank you. Sharing my experience with interested forum members is an honor and pleasure.



Hi Bill,

It sure is nice of you to share your stories with us. 

Thank you very much!
Andrew Gaitan


----------



## billrunnels (Dec 29, 2017)

Kaibutsu said:


> Hi Bill,
> 
> It sure is nice of you to share your stories with us.
> 
> ...


Thank you Andrew. My brief association with WW2aircraft.net has been a pleasure.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## billrunnels (Dec 29, 2017)

Kaibutsu said:


> Hi Bill,
> 
> It sure is nice of you to share your stories with us.
> 
> ...


You are welcome. If you have any questions please feel free to ask them


----------



## Zipper730 (Feb 14, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> A number of years ago I served as the bombardier on a public forum featuring the Air Force. The panel included a pilot, navigator, bombardier and a tail gunner. Each of us had 10 to 15 minutes to share our duties on a heavy bomber crew. All went as planned until we got to the tail gunner and he stole the show. In his early comments he said he was credited with one half mission. His B-17 was involved in a mid-air accident on his first mission and the tail section was severed from the main frame of the aircraft. He snapped on his parachute and attempted to exit the escape hatch but it was jammed. The next thing he remembered was waking up in an enemy hospital. He rode the tail section to the ground and survived. I don't remember his name but I think his story made Ripley's "Believe It Or Not".


I think I know this story!

BTW: Your first operational sortie was 2/15/45 right?



Jimbob said:


> I remember my dad ( 11th AAF WW2) telling me of a crewman falling out of a B-24 ball turret at 10,000 feet into the ocean with no parachute and surviving.


That's more likely than land as your body reaches terminal speed at around 500 feet of fall... the issue is impacting in straight with both arms crossed to avoid a shoulder dislocation (and having enough lung to fight the way up to the buoyancy point, then the rest of the way up to the surface -- holy shit that sounds terrifying)


----------



## pbehn (Feb 14, 2018)

Zipper730 said:


> That's more likely than land as your body reaches terminal speed at around 500 feet of fall... the issue is impacting in straight with both arms crossed to avoid a shoulder dislocation (and having enough lung to fight the way up to the buoyancy point, then the rest of the way up to the surface -- holy shit that sounds terrifying)


You only survive when you live through the whole thing. Whatever the improved chances are of landing in water are your chances of being uninjured and in a condition to swim AND being close enough to help to be rescued make the differences pretty academic.


----------

