# HD TV Debacle



## Njaco (Nov 27, 2007)

Ok, need some help with this.

I don't have cable. I refuse to contribute to a monopoly that keeps increasing rates and decreasing service. So I'm a rabbit-ear expert.  

The other day I got a used TV for my daughter's room but I needed an antenna. Went to the local Target store to find one. When I couldn't, I asked an employee where they were. He showed me and proceeded to tell me that within a year they would obsolete and non-funtional.

Now I know Congress a year or two ago passed a law changing TV to HD but what I was told by that employee was that it would render the rabbit-ears ineffective and for anyone to get any TV channels they would have to subscribe to a cable channel or Satellite dish or FiOs type service - at extra cost.

Is this true? I know they were changing the TV types but wasn't aware that it involved taking away analog reception! How can they do this?


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## mkloby (Nov 27, 2007)

Man - if I took away SOAPnet from the wife, I'd be in trouble!

I learned early that if Mama's not happy, nobody's happy.


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## comiso90 (Nov 27, 2007)

It is 100% true that HD is coming - like it or not. It is also true that stations will be forced to broadcast in HD. That does not mean that your local station will necessarily discontinue broadcasting in SD (Standard Definition). many stations will provide duel broadcasts...

Check with your local TV stations.. I'm sure the will have info on their web site.

ABC.com - HDTV FAQ's

.


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## Njaco (Nov 27, 2007)

Thanks Comiso. I was aware of the HD changes just not the ramifications. Well, my DVD player is gonna get a work out then.


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## comiso90 (Nov 27, 2007)

That doesn't mean they're going to stop SD broadcasts.... you may be OK

Like I said:
_That does not mean that your local station will necessarily discontinue broadcasting in SD (Standard Definition). *many stations will provide duel broadcasts...*

Check with your local TV stations.. I'm sure the will have info on their web site_


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## Njaco (Nov 27, 2007)

I understand. But you know in time, SD will go the way of Beta cassettes. It just seems alittle off the wall for Congress to mandate this stuff and have the companies charge us for what was once free. Like air at gas stations.

So I need to:

1. Throw out my TV and get one that is HD compatable. $$$$
2. Throw out my antenna and get a tuner. $$$$
3. Throw out my antenna and get cable. $$$$
4. Do a SDTV dance around a burning Philips set and pray my local stations continue to broadcast in SD.
5. Take up oragami.


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## Torch (Nov 27, 2007)

If your freaking now wait till you have to dump a cnote on an HDMI cable so that you can take advantage of the HDTV, oh and another HDMI for your DVD player, oh yeah forgot fiber optic cables too. And a Monster Cable AC stabilizer/protector for atleast 500.00 big ones. Plus almost 100.00 for Comcast programming which those sobs don't even tell you how to configure the damn thing when you pick it up.


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## comiso90 (Nov 27, 2007)

Eventually... it could be 10 years before they stop broadcasting SD entirely.. by that time, your TV will have to be replaced anyway

I bought a 52 inch HDTV 6 years ago for $4000 and I didnt have any HD!.. but it was worth every penny because it has an *awesome *digital picture.

Now you can buy similar TVs for $1,300! 

Such is technology!

Before there was HDTV (not to confuse but there are several different kinds of HDTV), there were basically 3 systems world wide:

NTSC
PAL
SECAM

The U.S. and some other counties use NTSC which is the first and the absolute WORST!

The French have a much better signal than we do! It's been 50 years, it's time for a upgrade.

hold on to your TV, make sure your local stations will broadcast in SD ( i'm sure they will) and when your TV breaks... upgrade to HD... it probably wont cost anymore money

INVEST IN "E-WASTE"!!!!


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## comiso90 (Nov 27, 2007)

Torch said:


> If your freaking now wait till you have to dump a cnote on an HDMI cable so that you can take advantage of the HDTV, oh and another HDMI for your DVD player, oh yeah forgot fiber optic cables too. And a Monster Cable AC stabilizer/protector for atleast 500.00 big ones. Plus almost 100.00 for Comcast programming which those sobs don't even tell you how to configure the damn thing when you pick it up.



I've never seen a system that REQUIRES HDMI or a optical cable... or monster cable because they don't exist!

Sure those things cost more money but you have options:
*All systems have alternative input and outputs*
_ S-Video
Component
Composite Video
RCA audio
BnC Digital Audio_


You can use any of the options and get a perfectly fine picture and audio .. for pennies! Cheaper cables often come free. If you are frustrated, you are *choosing *to spend that money needlessly... Do research, shop around, buy on-line.

If you dont want the fancy cables... don't buy them!  

If you are paying $500, then my friend.... it's out of misinformation. Sounds like a seventeen year old on commission got a hold of you!!!! Or you are buying at Radio Shack, Sears or Best Buy..

I just bought a HDMI package at Costco for cheap!


1. You *dont *have to buy the expensive cables
2. If you *choose *to (_you should they are worth i_t) buy on-line!

A 15 second search produced this HDMI Cable for $13.00..
HDMI Cable 6ft

C-Note! Dude, research!

As far as your comment on Comcast goes.... I agree! It will get worse as they providers consolidate!

.


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## evangilder (Nov 28, 2007)

There are companies right now creating converter boxes to got from the HD to your standard TV. Word is that there will be a government voucher program to make them affordable as well.

I read an article about it a while back. Let me see if I can find it.


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## evangilder (Nov 28, 2007)

Ah, here it is:

$40 DTV box subsidy: Is it enough? | Crave : The gadget blog


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## pbfoot (Nov 28, 2007)

I've had HD for 3 years now and its worth it, the *first year *i was disappointed with the quality of HD but it was my stupidity as I never used the proper cable (DVI) that came with the unit


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## Graeme (Nov 28, 2007)

Njaco said:


> Is this true? I know they were changing the TV types but wasn't aware that it involved taking away analog reception! How can they do this?



Over here the plan is to remove the analogue signal by around 2020, however we will still be using antennas in country areas to receive digital signals. Major cities will be using cable. You can buy a 'set-top-box' (around $A100) and watch HDTV on an analogue television, however superior viewing can be seen on LCD.

One 'rumour' is that when they broadcast only digital signals they will be able to encode it to prevent recording of programs-so the viewer must endure the commercials to see the entire program. Any thoughts on this Comiso?


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## mkloby (Nov 28, 2007)

Maybe it's just me - but I am completely disinterested in HDTV. What the hell do I care if the NY of the giants' helmets comes in a little clearer.

I have several TVs, they all work, and I have no intention of pouring money into a several thousand dollar TV when I will get 0 benefit out of it.

There are many guys out there that absolutely love it, however. I read that HDTVs have one of the highest product return rates of consumer electronics due to peoples' disappointment with the product and HD service.


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## Njaco (Nov 28, 2007)

I'm with you entirely, Mkloby. I may go alittle further without the cable and I have nothing against HD but I can't stand when it appears I'm being force-fed something while my pockets are robbed.

Oh for the days of coat-hangers and tin-foil.


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## plan_D (Nov 28, 2007)

The U.K is abandoning analogue as of 2012 or 2020 - I can't remember; only 8 years difference. But we have the same set-top boxes that receive in digital and we pick it up through our aerial. We've already got one in my house, very cheap (approx. £30.) so no ones complaining. 

The only thing we get ripped off with here is the TV license ... £145 a year to own a T.V. - simply because BBC needs paying for ... by us...with T.V. tax...so the BBC is government supported .... it's NOT bias, honest.


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## evangilder (Nov 28, 2007)

I never understood the TV tax over there anyway. I never paid it in my three years over there, but when I lived off-base, I never watched it anyway.

Njaco, we dumped our cable provider and went with Dish network. The service and picture quality are better and it is a bit cheaper. If I was single, I wouldn't have bothered, but the wife and kids watch it a lot.


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## plan_D (Nov 28, 2007)

The T.V. license [tax] pays for the BBC. You probably didn't pay for it because the USAF would have; or maybe didn't have to - I don't know.


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## evangilder (Nov 28, 2007)

On base, we didn't have to, but off base, we were supposed to. But I didn't have time for TV much then.


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## comiso90 (Nov 28, 2007)

mkloby said:


> Maybe it's just me - but I am completely disinterested in HDTV. What the hell do I care if the NY of the giants' helmets comes in a little clearer.
> 
> I have several TVs, they all work, and I have no intention of pouring money into a several thousand dollar TV when I will get 0 benefit out of it.
> .



You probably know but just for definition sake, it's not just about clarity, its about aspect ratio too. In SD, movies are cropped to fit on your TV. In HD the true size is shown.

There is a good chance that by the time they stop broadcasting SD, you'll be ready for a new TV anyway. prices have dropped dramatically and will continue to do so!


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## Matt308 (Nov 28, 2007)

Njaco said:


> Ok, need some help with this.
> 
> I don't have cable. I refuse to contribute to a monopoly that keeps increasing rates and decreasing service. So I'm a rabbit-ear expert.
> 
> ...



Absolutely not true. I have a 56" HD Samsung. I use Dishnetwork for most of my viewing. However, I receive local channels via antenna in HD. I just switch back and forth between inputs.

I too am a cheap prick when it comes to HD. You know damn well that the cable/satellite companies are going to charge you extra to get HD even after the mandated conversion. Aholes.


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## Matt308 (Nov 28, 2007)

Oh. And your TV WILL need an HD tuner. If not, your TV will recieve NOTHING. Maybe that's what the dude meant.


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## comiso90 (Nov 28, 2007)

NTSC came out in 1953!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anybody who is resistant, put on your derby, jump in your horseless carriage and go down the general store. Instead of complaining by the pickle barrel, go over and check out the new TV's. You might be surprised how affordable they are!

NTSC came out in 1953!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy cow! At least the French have SECAM..

Are you saying you're pro-french?

.



.


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## comiso90 (Nov 28, 2007)

Njaco said:


> I can't stand when it appears I'm being force-fed something while my pockets are robbed.
> 
> Oh for the days of coat-hangers and tin-foil.



People were force fed automobiles when it became difficult to buy buggies too.


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## pbfoot (Nov 28, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> People were force fed automobiles when it became difficult to buy buggies too.


I agree my satellite provider charges $43 a month including HD for about 150 channels its cheaper then cable
and in my case more reliable it's never gone down in precip or winds


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## Njaco (Nov 28, 2007)

Comiso, I don't mind paying for a HDTV. I have nothing against HD. Love to have it. It just seems to me that there is alot of sneaky back-room cr*p going on here. At my expense.

I just don't trust the government to play fair. 

Comcast is the ONLY cable provider in this area. Now the government saw fit to deregulate the phone system but doesn't touch this? In fact it regulates it more by one sweep making obsolete millions of TVs? And I do know there is Satelite TV and others but.... You buy the TV, you but the satelite, you buy the service. It just smells of scam. Sure people are gonna want HD because of the oooh ahhh factor, but where is my choice? It seems like its been taken away.

Again I'm not clear on this whole thing and I may have an improper view of it. I'm not complaining except that the government should keep its fingers out of it. It feels like digital emminent domain.

Now I'll go back in my carriage.


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## comiso90 (Nov 28, 2007)

It's VERY expensive to maintain both systems... it seems to me reasonable transition time is in place (in most areas). TV stations cannot be expected to maintain SDTV for ever.

As you touched on, the media monopolies are the real threat. The pipelines that feed us information are controlled by fewer and fewer people. That is not a good thing.

I don't believe HD or the implementation is a debacle... but the media monopolies are! *That is a reality with or without HD*.

Now to really piss you off... there are different types of HDTV! _As far as I know there isnt a standard yet._

720,1080, 1024, 1280, 1920?

 



.


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## evangilder (Nov 28, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Oh. And your TV WILL need an HD tuner. If not, your TV will recieve NOTHING. Maybe that's what the dude meant.



No, they are working on converter boxes that will convert the HD signal to normal NTSC. See the article that I posted in this thread. It actually makes sense.


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## Njaco (Nov 28, 2007)

Cosimo, that may be what has me peeved. You are right about the monopolies.

Eric, I'm sure I won't find that converter box at the dollar store. I don't mind paying for an accessory, like an antenna but I can just see the price gouge on the public for this.

Oh, and Cosimo, the Amish still use buggys.


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## Matt308 (Nov 28, 2007)

evangilder said:


> No, they are working on converter boxes that will convert the HD signal to normal NTSC. See the article that I posted in this thread. It actually makes sense.



That is true. But a NTSC analog TV will not work unless you PURCHASE said HD tuner. Thus my point is correct.

Oh. And to piss off the conservatives on this forum, the gov't is providing $40 per household subsidy for individuals to purchase these off-board tuners.


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## Matt308 (Nov 28, 2007)

Njaco said:


> Cosimo, that may be what has me peeved. You are right about the monopolies.
> 
> Eric, I'm sure I won't find that converter box at the dollar store. I don't mind paying for an accessory, like an antenna but I can just see the price gouge on the public for this.
> 
> Oh, and Cosimo, the Amish still use buggys.



You know you don't have to watch TV, Njaco. Criminy, what size analog TV do you currently have. You've had over 15 years to prepare for the change. Assuming you have about the biggest analog TV every produced (40"), you can get a 720p 40"HDTV for about $800. And if you go smaller (32") you can get them for $400. Sheesh. If you had been saving your money all this time thats saving about $0.50 a week. Suck it up, Bubba.


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## Njaco (Nov 28, 2007)

Sorry, Matt. Maybe I'm not stating myself clearly because I clearly don't understand. Maybe if I start over.

I can get a HD TV. No prob. But is that it? Do I have to have Cable or Satelite or some type of service even to watch it? I hear about converter boxes, etc. 

I am dense when it comes to this sh*t. Sorry.


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## comiso90 (Nov 28, 2007)

Some of my post was wrong..

The US will experience a MANDITORY shut off for Analog TV feb 17, 2009..
I thought there was a peroiod in which there would be simutainious broadcast..

wiki:

* n the United States, all U.S. television broadcasts will be exclusively digital as of February 17, 2009, by order of the Federal Communications Commission. This deadline was signed into law in early 2006.[15] Furthermore, as of March 1, 2007, all new television sets that can receive signals over-the-air, including pocket-sized portable televisions, must include digital or HDTV tuners so they can receive digital broadcasts.[16] Currently, most U.S. broadcasters are transmitting their signals in both analog and digital formats; a few are digital-only. Citing the bandwidth efficiency of digital TV, after the analog switch-off, the FCC will auction off channels 52–59 (the lower half of the 700 MHz band) for other communications traffic,[17] completing the reallocation of broadcast channels 52–69 that began in the late 1990s. The FCC is also planning to abandon the channels 2-6 (54-72/76-88 MHz) for broadcast television in the near future[citation needed].

The analog switch-off ruling, which so far has met with little opposition from consumers or manufacturers, would render all non-digital televisions obsolete on the switch-off date, unless connected to an external off-the-air tuner, analog or digital cable, or a satellite system. The FCC has determined that an external converter box (an ATSC tuner) can be added to non-digital televisions to lengthen their useful lifespan. Several of these devices have already been shown, and industry and government statements predict that low-cost units will be available in January 2008.[18] At that same time, the U.S. government will take requests from households for up to two coupons to reduce the price of specified converter boxes by $40.[19] Some existing analog equipment will be less functional with the use of a converter box. For example, television remote controls will no longer be effective at changing channels, because that function will instead be handled by the converter box. Similarly, video recorders for analog signals (including both tape-based VCRs and hard-drive-based DVRs) will not be able to select channels, limiting their ability to automatically record programs via a timer or based on downloaded program information. 

Digital television - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Matt308 (Nov 28, 2007)

Njaco said:


> Sorry, Matt. Maybe I'm not stating myself clearly because I clearly don't understand. Maybe if I start over.
> 
> I can get a HD TV. No prob. But is that it? Do I have to have Cable or Satelite or some type of service even to watch it? I hear about converter boxes, etc.
> 
> I am dense when it comes to this sh*t. Sorry.



Okay here is the short course. And believe me, I can understand why you are confused.

Buy an HDTV (with built in tuner) - You can buy HD "capable" TVs with no HD tuner. However, these are so rare anymore as to be non-existent. I have not seen an HDTV that does not include an HD tuner in years. So don't worry about it.

Signal -

If you are currently using an antenna and get good reception on all your important channels, you are probably fine to receive HD on those same channels once they broadcast in HD (as noted all will broadcast HD by law in 2009). All HDTVs that I have seen also tune analog stations. So during that time during the analog-to-digital transition, you can receive either format. Most all HDTVs are smart enough to scan the spectrum, find the good channels and inform you of them, irrespective of whether they are currently analog or HD.

Poor Reception -

With your current analog set using an antenna, a poor signal is typically still discernible, but with perhaps snow or blurring. With HD, this is no longer the case. With digital, you are in the "either your get it, or you don't" world of reception. A marginal signal will either result in a blank screen, perfect video with audio drops, or periodic drops of video and audio. Think start stops. This is the downfall of HD over an antenna if the signal strength isn't high enough. It will drive you friggin' crazy. Your current TV will just blur a little or you might hear white noise in the audio or both. Not so with HD. Cable and Satellite hook up is by far the best bet and allow you to take the digital signal directly from the cable/satellite box directly into your TV via a digital (HDMI) link.

Now you have options for your antenna 'type', but as always the 75ohm outdoor roof antenna will likely give you the best HD reception. New HDTVs don't use rabbit ears, though some may have screw terminal connections. We're in the next century now. And best I can tell antennas that are marketed as HDTV antennas are no different than any other antenna of equal size/location. That appears to be a marketing ploy so don't pay more for one.

Format -

For simplicity, current HDTVs at your local Circuit City come in 720p (progressive scanning) and 1020i (interlaced). The 720p is less expensive and given everything else is equal results in a GREAT picture, but some fast movement (like sports) does have some discernable blurring where there is movement. However, coming from an analog set, you won't be able to spot it unless someone demos a 1020i right next to the 720p. The 1020i is more expensive, but that would be my choice.

The differences between projection (Digital Light Processing DLP), LCD and Plasma can be subtle to VERY significant. Traditionally DLP is least expensive. LCD in the middle. And plasma the most expensive. There are exceptions and it is not necessarily one format being better than others. It depends upon the HDTV and the price point. When in doubt, trust your eyes.

Screen Glare -

This is a big deal if you have a bright room. Especially if you get a big TV. My buddy has a 63" Mitsubishi that is (in my opinion) virtually unwatchable in his room in any light whatsoever. His TV is a few years old and the screen coatings are much better nowadays. Some VERY good HDTVs have high gloss screens. These reflect the most, but in my opinion give the sharpest pics. However, the anti-glare screens are a close second and these would be my choice. Take a small flashlight with you and shine it on the active screen during the demo. Some TVs will reflect like a mirror and others you will hardly be able to see it.

Next week... surround sound!


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## Njaco (Nov 28, 2007)

TY, TY, TY! Now I have a better grasp of it. I thought they were forceing me to spend much more beyond the TV set for this. Ok, so in about year or so my TV must be HD acceptable and then I have to frig around with the best way for reception.

Thanks.

Now, is that true surround-sound?


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## comiso90 (Nov 28, 2007)

Njaco said:


> Now, is that true surround-sound?


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## Matt308 (Nov 28, 2007)

Don't encourage him, Comiso.


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## comiso90 (Nov 28, 2007)

Well.. we did our best to talk him back from the edge... I'm not sure it worked!

.


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## Torch (Nov 28, 2007)

Sure you have other connections Cosimo as you mentioned but HDMI is the only way to go. If you want a $13.00 cable go for it, I dumped 11k into a system and since I paid that much I'm not giving cheap cables a chance to compromise picture quality. Also as far as the Monster a/c box it will reimburse my equipment if it does not protect my stuff from lightning, surges etc...To each his own.


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## comiso90 (Nov 29, 2007)

If you spent 11K on a system, why were you beefing?

The point is that you didnt have to.. it was a decision. and it sounds like you made a good decision. You wouldn't pout cheap 18 inch tires on a Ferrari.... but you probably could!

I have a system worth 8K and I bought medium quality cables and stuff.


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## Torch (Nov 29, 2007)

Wasn't beefing but trying to emphasize that the cost of HDtv and perephials can get out of hand quickly.


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## Njaco (Nov 29, 2007)

Nice pic, Cosimo.


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## comiso90 (Nov 29, 2007)

Njaco said:


> Nice pic, Cosimo.


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## Njaco (Nov 29, 2007)

Had to take a second look. Like the shirt!


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## Matt308 (Nov 30, 2007)

Hehehe


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## Njaco (Dec 9, 2008)

So I took the plunge before I was flushed.

Back in August I called and got those gubberment coupons and went and bought a converter for ma TV. Brought it home, hooked it up and turned it on. (remember- no cable). Did a scan for available channels and found - 2! Ok, maybe anntenna is crappy so I switched with a better one I had stashed. Channel scan and - 3 channels!

The bulb over my head was starting to glow and now I realize that as much as they talk about those of us that use rabbit ears and analog, its not just a converter box you need - you also need an antenna!

Hit the Wal-Mart and bought a $30 anntenna. Brought it home, hooked it and a channel scan - 3 channels!

Went to Best Buy and bought a $40 antenna. Brought it back, hooked it up and did a scan - 3 channels!

Ok, enough of the generic chain stores. Went to Radio Shack bought a $50 antenna. Brought it back, hooked it up and scanned channels - 4 channels!
(mind you, 3 out of these 4 channels are Christian Worship channels including one in Spanish!)

Now I'm pissed.

I need to know what type of antenna I need and not the advice of some pimpled part-time High School student at Target! The World Wide Web!!!
I do a search on Google and one little thing catches my eye (cheap [email protected] that I am ). A YouTube video on how to make an HD antenna with coat hangers for $5!!!!

So one Sunday with nothing to do I watch the video, write down the particulars and gather up the items. After about 2 hours I have made myself from a 4 foot length of 2x4 wood, an antenna with 16 coathanger pieces sticking every whichaway in my living room. Hook it up and scan the channels------

34 channels!!!!

Now how to explain this to the In-Laws?


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## Bucksnort101 (Dec 9, 2008)

Hey, I need the link to that YouTube 2X4 and Coat Hanger antenna!!! I too refuse to pay for cable as the little television I watch it is not worth it.


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## Bucksnort101 (Dec 9, 2008)

Is this what the Antenna looks like? And do I need to wear a Aluminum Foil hat while watching the TV


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## Messy1 (Dec 9, 2008)

Hmm, this looks interesting. Let me know what you find out! And if you have a link to that website.


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## Njaco (Dec 9, 2008)

Buck, thats it!!! Hows it work for you?

I'm looking for that link and I'll post.


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## RabidAlien (Dec 9, 2008)

You could probably just mount that puppy straight on the wall, and tell everyone its "modern art". Might even get some offers for it, if you're lucky. 

Have you checked the website Instructables - Make, How To, and DIY ? Haven't searched for HD antenna hacks, but I'm purty sure that if they're anywhere, someone's posted one on there.


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## Njaco (Dec 9, 2008)

One thing I notice in that pic, Buck, it loks like the coathangers are coated. The video said to sand off the coating which I did and it worked.


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## Matt308 (Dec 9, 2008)

Good Lord you people are sheltered.


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## Njaco (Dec 9, 2008)

I'll have you know, kind sir, I happen to work in an animal shelter so I'm kinda used to it.


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## Matt308 (Dec 9, 2008)

I'm just glad you non-technical folks are not allowed to redeem multiple HDTV coupons. I was one of the sorry Aholes who actually submitted for a coupon and threw it away hoping in vain that it would reduce the number of gov't handouts.

Alas... twas not to be so.


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## Njaco (Dec 10, 2008)

Well, here is the link. Have fun! 



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


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## Bucksnort101 (Dec 10, 2008)

Actually that is not my antenna, I just pulled the picture off the internet. And no, I'm not sheltered just a cheap bassturd. Why would I pay a bunch of money for a new TV, Cable or Dish, new Antenna when I can rig up some Rube Goldberg device and watch my three or four hours of TV every week?
I'm not a member of the Cheap Bassturds Club for nothing you know


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## Messy1 (Dec 10, 2008)

I my try to do it just to have something to mess around with! Does it really work that good? That cool as hell!


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## Njaco (Dec 10, 2008)

Its not gonna get all the channels and you have to move it to the best spot. I'm trying to see if other material besides coathangers might have a better reception. But it still is better than the store-bought crap that I got.


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## Bucksnort101 (Dec 10, 2008)

I wouldn't spend too much on the Antenna project just yet. You may get better reception on many of those channels once all the stations switch over?


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## Lucky13 (Dec 11, 2008)

RabidAlien said:


> You could probably just mount that puppy straight on the wall, and tell everyone its "modern art". Might even get some offers for it, if you're *lucky*.


Why would I get offers for it....I've got Sky+ with 100+ channels.....


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## Messy1 (Dec 11, 2008)

Njaco said:


> Its not gonna get all the channels and you have to move it to the best spot. I'm trying to see if other material besides coathangers might have a better reception. But it still is better than the store-bought crap that I got.



Would a thick aluminum wire of some type receive signals better than a coat hanger?


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## Messy1 (Dec 11, 2008)

Love the new siggy picture Lucky!


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## timshatz (Dec 11, 2008)

Messy1 said:


> Love the new siggy picture Lucky!


Yeah, it is pretty cool, ain't it.


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## Messy1 (Dec 11, 2008)

Definitely is!


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## fly boy (Dec 11, 2008)

it's all going digital in feb and you can get a converter box just remember to do it fast


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