# Eiffel Tower



## DVH (Jan 3, 2014)

Hi,
I recently read about the death of one William Overstreet ( apt name) who reportedly flew his P51 through the Eiffel Tower chasing an ME109. 
Anyone know if this is true? or who the luftwaffe pilot was? He seems to be one heck of a pilot, but gets no name check.


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## swampyankee (Jan 3, 2014)

Seems very unlikely -- take a look at this drawing: (from Fileimensions Eiffel Tower-es.svg - Wikimedia Commons)


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## GrauGeist (Jan 3, 2014)

USAAF pilot Wiiliam "Bill" Overstreet, of the 357th FG, chased the damaged Bf109G *under* the Eiffel Tower with his P-51C "Berlin Express". As far as the identity of the Luftwaffe pilot, I haven't heard who it was, but he flew under the tower first, Overstreet finished him off after they cleared the structure, the Bf109 crashing near the river.

He just passed away last Sunday (29 December 2013) at the age of 92.


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## tyrodtom (Jan 3, 2014)

I've seen a picture of a Beechcraft Bonanza doing the same thing in the late 50's or early 60's, and this was long before photoshop.
I don't know the details, if it was some movie stunt , or just some crazy pilot's wet dream come true.

The bottom arch is about 220 feet across, and less than 200 high, certainly possible for a P-51, just not the safest route thru Paris.

The Bonanza incident actually happened in 1984. Look up Robert Moriarty, he had a camera with him and the film is online, look it up.


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## GrauGeist (Jan 3, 2014)

tyrodtom said:


> ...The bottom arch is about 220 feet across, and less than 200 high, certainly possible for a P-51, just not the safest route thru Paris.


Considering that the fleeing German was trying to get the AA batteries there in Paris to shake the P-51 off his tail, Overstreet had alot more to worry about than clearing the arch!


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## Aozora (Jan 4, 2014)

Here's a WW2 view of the Eiffel tower from the _Palais de Chaillot_ which is directly opposite, across the Seine; the distance from the photo to the arch is about 350 metres (measured on google map): I assume the two aircraft raced up the_ Champ de Mars_?






The arch is about 150 feet tall, so at 350+ mph it must have been a small target.


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## mhuxt (Jan 4, 2014)

Same view, a few years later:






From a history of 409 Squadron.

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## wuzak (Jan 4, 2014)

Is that a Mossie?


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## Airframes (Jan 4, 2014)

No, it's a Beaufighter, flying through the arch. I believe it was duplicating a similar flight by a Beau, which dropped a Tricolor, and tickled either a Gestapo HQ or Whermacht HQ with it's cannons, during the war. I have the story somewhere.


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## mhuxt (Jan 4, 2014)

There's a higher-res / larger version of the photo here:

All sizes | plane flying under eiffel tower | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

with assorted commentary here:

plane flying under eiffel tower | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I make no claim one way or the other - I'm really just the (a?) messenger on this one.


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## Milosh (Jan 4, 2014)

WWII Veteran Aviator Bill Overstreet and His P-51 Mustang, "Berlin Express"


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## Airframes (Jan 4, 2014)

mhuxt said:


> There's a higher-res / larger version of the photo here:
> 
> All sizes | plane flying under eiffel tower | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> ...



Yep, my mistake, it is a Mossie.


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## drgondog (Jan 4, 2014)

I don't see this a big deal other than the novelty of the evasion maneuver on the part of the LW pilot. One would have to a.) make the decision to go for it - and seeing the 109 make it is a confidence builer, and b.) fly low where your peripheral vision/depth perception is probably best to make sure you have a lot of clearance above you.

There are documented encounter reports in which a pilot flew under high tension power lines coming off a strafing run in bad weather.

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## GrauGeist (Jan 4, 2014)

Bill Overstreet was an accomplished pilot and could have easily "shot the arch", when he was training on the west coast, he and a few others used to fool around with the Golden Gate Bridge along with other "interesting" stunts that usually got them wrote up.

He is also one of the first known pilots to survive a P-39's infamous flat spin, too. His experiences during the war were actually quite remarkable.


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## stona (Jan 4, 2014)

GrauGeist said:


> Bill Overstreet was an accomplished pilot and could have easily "shot the arch", when he was training on the west coast, he and a few others used to fool around with the Golden Gate Bridge along with other "interesting" stunts that usually got them wrote up.



That may well be, but if this combat did indeed happen (and I'm not saying it did not) Overstreet did not file a combat report or make a claim for a Bf 109 anywhere near Paris. 

Cheers

Steve


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## Lucky13 (Jan 4, 2014)

Airframes said:


> No, it's a Beaufighter, flying through the arch. I believe it was duplicating a similar flight by a Beau, which dropped a Tricolor, and tickled either a Gestapo HQ or Whermacht HQ with it's cannons, during the war. I have the story somewhere.



One suspect that old boy is thinking about Commander A. K. Gatward of No. 404 Squadron.....
It was on the 12th of June '42, when he flew (Sgt. G. F. Fern was his navigator) Beaufighter T4800, ND-C, at deck height through Paris, dropped the French tricolour over the Arc de Triomphe, then cannon blast the Gestapo HQ, which was located in the Ministry of Marine building....

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## Milosh (Jan 4, 2014)

Crazy Canadians as the Mossie was also a Canadian a/c.

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## GrauGeist (Jan 4, 2014)

It's my understanding that this event occurred on 29 July 44...I'm not exactly certain.

On that day, the Luftwaffe lost two fighters in the direct vicinity:

Bf109G-6 (WkNmr 412619) 9./JG 27; Yellow 3+| - Lt. Hannes Löffler

Bf109G-6 (WkNmr 165162) 11./JG 27; Red 11+~ - Lt. Paul Becker

Lots of eye witnesses, including the French Resistance, who were all inspired by the event and rioted for several days. Overstreet was eventually awarded the Legion of Honor for this action (2009).
If Lt. Overstreet didn't claim it, perhaps he wasn't sure if the Bf109 went down (though he did say he nailed it pretty hard when it pulled up from passing under the arch) and I could understand that, since the Germans were throwing everything at him, including the kitchen sink, so he was probably more focused on getting out of the area in one piece!


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## stona (Jan 4, 2014)

On 29th July Overstreet made his one and only claim for a Bf 109, not near Paris, but West of Merseburg. That couldn't possibly be linked to an aircraft shot down in Paris.

Again, I'm not saying that this didn't happen, but it doesn't seem possible that it happened on that date which seems to be generally accepted. It is strange that if it was indeed Overstreet who pursued and shot down a Bf 109 in Paris that he did not submit a report.

Cheers

Steve


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## Airframes (Jan 4, 2014)

Lucky13 said:


> One suspect that old boy is thinking about Commander A. K. Gatward of No. 404 Squadron.....
> It was on the 12th of June '42, when he flew (Sgt. G. F. Fern was his navigator) Beaufighter T4800, ND-C, at deck height through Paris, dropped the French tricolour over the Arc de Triomphe, then cannon blast the Gestapo HQ, which was located in the Ministry of Marine building....



That's the one old boy! Must be getting more confused than usual, although I still think there was, at some time, a 'Beau Moment' involving that copy of Blackpool Tower ....


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## Aozora (Jan 4, 2014)

Lucky13 said:


> One suspect that old boy is thinking about Commander A. K. Gatward of No. 404 Squadron.....
> It was on the 12th of June '42, when he flew (Sgt. G. F. Fern was his navigator) Beaufighter T4800, ND-C, at deck height through Paris, dropped the French tricolour over the Arc de Triomphe, then cannon blast the Gestapo HQ, which was located in the Ministry of Marine building....



Aeroplane Monthly March 2010:







Gatward and Fern:


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## mhuxt (Jan 5, 2014)

I see the inevitable cries of "Photoshop!" have appeared on another board re: the pic I posted. If it is a fake, both the photo and the pamphlet it was taken from pre-date Photoshop by some decades.


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## GrauGeist (Jan 5, 2014)

The term "photoshop" has become the catchword for people who don't understand what they are looking at or won't take the time to learn/verify an image.


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## Capt. Vick (Jan 5, 2014)

And there in lies the crux of the matter. Maybe...just maybe...we shouldn't let the truth get in the way of a good story.


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## GrauGeist (Jan 5, 2014)

Robert Moriarty did it a few years ago in a few years ago in a Bonanza...

Plenty of room under there.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_txdqnVP3-c_


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## Lucky13 (Jan 5, 2014)

Now, do it in a '51 or Mosquito at twice the speed.....simples!


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## Airframes (Jan 5, 2014)

Well, a certain RAF Officer took a *Hunter* under Tower Bridge, 'JAS' Storrar took a Hurricane under a very narrow, and low bridge over the River Dee, near his home near Chester during WW2, which inspired the scene in 'Piece of Cake', where 'The Master', the late Ray Hannah, flew a Spitfire under a bridge over a narrow river gorge. So that massive arch of the Eifel Tower, in comparison, would have been relatively straight forward to a competent, experienced combat pilot of WW2 - although the flak would have been a d*mned nuisance, what!


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## Lucky13 (Jan 5, 2014)

Next time, a fully loaded Typhoon, Tempest or Beaufighter, if they throw stuff at you, you'll throw stuff, ie 60 lbs rockets, back at them when done, fair enough?


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## Aozora (Jan 5, 2014)

mhuxt said:


> I see the inevitable cries of "Photoshop!" have appeared on another board re: the pic I posted. If it is a fake, both the photo and the pamphlet it was taken from pre-date Photoshop by some decades.



Take a look at these postings: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/rcaf-409-nfs-3639.html#post218628 
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/rcaf-409-nfs-3639.html#post219465 
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/rcaf-409-nfs-3639-2.html#post497621

seems that the photo appeared in an official 409 Sqn book that was given to all squadron members just after the war; so if it was Photoshopped, it was done by Dr Who.

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## mhuxt (Jan 5, 2014)

Yes indeed, first I heard of the pic was on ^that thread.

The whole 409 Sqn book forms part of this open archive doc here:

https://archive.org/details/Flt.lt.J.DeryckHore-KennardRcafJ.93091941-1945Records

The book is toward the end of the archive.


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## drgondog (Jan 5, 2014)

Just for the record, Overstreet's sole credit for a 109 destroyed was at Merseberg July 29, 1944. For the Paris discussion I'm not sure when the Paris encounter took place but he either didn't make a claim or the damaged claim was disallowed.

On April 11 he was credited with three damaged Bf 109s near Hannover.


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## Njaco (Jan 5, 2014)

Some pics of the tower at ground level taken during the war to give some scale...

.


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## Mike Williams (Jan 5, 2014)

Fwiw, the 357th Fighter Group engaged in combat low over Paris on 25 July 1944: 
Capt. John F. Pugh, Encounter Report - 25 July 1944
Capt. Robert W. Foy, Encounter Report - 25 July 1944
Capt. Donald W. Bochkay, Encounter Report - 25 July 1944
Capt. Leonard K. Carson, Encounter Report - 25 July 1944
Carson, Leonard K., Pursue Destroy, page 66


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## swampyankee (Jan 5, 2014)

Well, since it seems it did happen, I am suitably chastised and quite surprised.


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## stona (Jan 5, 2014)

swampyankee said:


> Well, since it seems it did happen, I am suitably chastised and quite surprised.



I don't think that it's proven either way.
I don't know the origin of Overstreet's story. If it came from him I find it hard to believe that he didn't file a claim.
I am open minded about the story. It doesn't take much to go from a race 'past the Eiffel tower', as in one of the links given above, to a race through it. Things often alter for the better in the telling.
Cheers
Steve


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## bobbysocks (Jan 5, 2014)

i had the honor to meet Mr. Overstreet once and converse with his on only a couple occasions. he had a very colorful career which included blacking out at 25,000 feet for 90 minutes...landing a plane with his eyes swollen shut...shooting down a 109 with vodka...and yes, flying under the tower. for the life of me i cannot recall the details of that episode but do know the camera footage was loaned to the navy for some reason and never returned. i posted below the first installment of a 5 part video interview...he may tell that story in its entirety there. (he tells the story in part 4 ). he will be missed.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hphm6a24eMU_


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## Njaco (Jan 5, 2014)

Thanks for the post Bobbysocks. I want to be as respectful as I can : Can you recall the story about blacking out for 90 minutes?


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## GrauGeist (Jan 5, 2014)

A bullet severed his O2 and he regained consciousness before disaster got the better of him.

Being one of the first to survive a P-39's flat spin early in his career, you get the idea this man had angels on his shoulder.


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## Njaco (Jan 5, 2014)

Well, my question is: does it take 90 minutes to flat spin down from 25,000 ft? That just doesn't seem right to me. But I may be wrong and again, no disrespect.


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## GrauGeist (Jan 5, 2014)

Here's a good interview with him: WWII Veteran Aviator Bill Overstreet and His P-51 Mustang, "Berlin Express"

One thing I found out about the missing Bf109 claim, is that he never filed claims for victories. The ones that were to his credit, had been filed by others. The encounter with the Bf109 over Paris happened in spring. Still not sure of the date. Perhaps digging through Luftwaffe losses that occurred in Paris proper for that time period might yeild some results?

Also a neat fact, was that his aircraft always had whitewall tires and red wheels


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## stona (Jan 6, 2014)

GrauGeist said:


> One thing I found out about the missing Bf109 claim, is that he never filed claims for victories.



Frank Olynyk lists three combat reports with claims by Overstreet, all backed up with credits from their respective Victory Credit Board (VCB) reports.

He did file claims.

I don't know the details of the Eiffel tower incident and haven't had time to hear what the man himself says in the interview. If he did pursue a Bf 109 under the Eiffel tower and subsequently destroy it he didn't file a combat report to be reviewed by the VCB for that one for some reason.

I'll just stick to the known facts and sit on the fence  

Cheers

Steve


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## bobbysocks (Jan 6, 2014)

after some flak hit his plane and severed the ox line the plane flew on the heading he was on. most likely he had it trimmed for straight and level flight and that is they way she went...until the drop tank ran out of fuel....then it probably stalled and went into a spin. he started out at 25k feet and once below 10 grand where you dont need oxygen he probably started to come around. he had to figure out what was going on....switch fuel...start the engine...and pull out of the spin. he was pretty low when he finally did.

the tower incident was witnessed by a lot of parisians and actually incited a mini revolt in the city for 3 days. 

the white sidewalls....that seemed to be a big deal with the early B/C models. i have heard/read ( but cannot find any confirming reports or evidence ) that is was an experiment to reduce the effects of the sun on the rubber tires. but i also know that big wide white walls were the fashion for cars of the day so can also believe they were painted up that way to dress up the plane.

as for what can fit under the tower...i came across this pic.


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## stona (Jan 7, 2014)

bobbysocks said:


> the white sidewalls....that seemed to be a big deal with the early B/C models. i have heard/read ( but cannot find any confirming reports or evidence ) that is was an experiment to reduce the effects of the sun on the rubber tires.



Yes. It's often quoted as a reason for white wall tyres on Luftwaffe aircraft. I've never seen any primary evidence for that and I've seen plenty of Luftwaffe aircraft with white wall tyres in environments where that can't be the case (like Norway). Nonetheless it seems reasonable.
Many tail wheel tyres were electrically conducting to earth the aircraft. This innovation was introduced pre-war as tail skids started to be replaced by tail wheels. The Dunlop ECTA tyre was one of the first. It has also been suggested that some tail wheel tyres were made white walled to indicate that they were conducting tyres.
Cheers
Steve


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## cimmex (Jan 7, 2014)

According to “Günter Sengfelder’s” book “Flugzeugfahrwerke” the white walled tail gear tires indicates to the refuelling team that the aircraft must not be grounded by a cable during refuelling because the tire is made from conductive rubber.
cimmex


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## stona (Jan 7, 2014)

cimmex said:


> According to “Günter Sengfelder’s” book “Flugzeugfahrwerke” the white walled tail gear tires indicates to the refuelling team that the aircraft must not be grounded by a cable during refuelling because the tire is made from conductive rubber.
> cimmex



Yes. Many tyres used on British aircraft were electrically conducting, but they were not distinguished by a coloured side wall. This is an early Dunlop advertisement for their ECTA (electrically conducting tyre aircraft) tyre.






Sengfelder suggested that the white side wall on German tyres signified electrical conductivity. Ullmann stated that white wall tyres were 'a requirement for tropical service'. I can't remember how he justified this and don't have time to look it up now.

Cheers

Steve


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## pbehn (Jan 7, 2014)

Njaco said:


> Well, my question is: does it take 90 minutes to flat spin down from 25,000 ft? That just doesn't seem right to me. But I may be wrong and again, no disrespect.



They were two different incidents Njaco the flat spin and the black out were in different planes.


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## bobbysocks (Jan 7, 2014)

if the white walled tires were electronically conductive....negating the need to ground the plane for static electricity during fueling....that would make sense.


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## Alte Hase (Jan 10, 2014)

I think I recall reading that after the liberation of Paris, flying under the eiffel tower was a favourite stunt of the USAAF fighter pilots returning from escort or strafing missions on Germany. It was apparently a fairly regular occurence


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## aircrewremembered (May 25, 2014)

The history of 409 Squadron RCAF (The Nighthawks) from which this image is taken was recently reproduced by a relative of an original 409 member on behalf of the extended family. He asked us if we would publish it on our site to perpetuate the memory of this brave RCAF unit. We were happy to undertake the labour of love to do so. We've got a first person account of this event of flying under the Eiffel on page 50 of the book. Check it out at aircrewremembered.com/Nighthawks/nighthawks50.html and whilst you're there, read the whole book. It's a vivid personal recollection of the Nighthawks.

And if anyone else has similar material, or memories of stories of flying personnel, please get in touch.

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## mhuxt (May 25, 2014)

Thanks for posting this!


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## aircrewremembered (Jun 7, 2014)

It's always good when you have a first-person account to rely on. Those Nighthawks were something else, as were many of the RCAF flyers. We've got a lot of Canadian material on the site and I make a point to read every word looking for their amazing antics. Screwball Beurling, Buck McNair... all characters. Glad we were on the same side!


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## nuuumannn (Jun 8, 2014)

Terrific information guys and great images and posts, Bobbysocks. I'd also heard about electrically conducting tailwheels, but not mainwheels.



> negating the need to ground the plane for static electricity during fueling



You still need to bond the refuelling truck to the aeroplane to place it in the circuit.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 8, 2014)

Lt. Overstreet had "custom" whitewall tires on his P-51C, along with bright red wheels...just like his car back home.

They were painted on.


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## Lucky13 (Jun 9, 2014)

Great info lads!


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