# Paradoxes (Things That Contradict Themselves) Of WWII



## GermansRGeniuses (Feb 13, 2004)

I go with B-29 and how it had largest bomb load and takeoff weight of the war YET it was too fast for many jap fighters with a top speed of 370mph so it contradicts itself in being big heavy and a bomber and yet its faster than fighters


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 13, 2004)

the lanc had a bigger bomb load


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 13, 2004)

i wouldn't say that was contradictory, as it was very heavy, it's just that it was fast to


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## GermansRGeniuses (Feb 14, 2004)

yes big heavy daunting yet faster than fighters cuz when u think bomber u think slow and b29 had 20k bomb load and lanc had like 18k and yes i know about grand slam but those were specially modifeid


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## Crazy (Feb 14, 2004)

Military intelligence.

  

Seriously, though, I agree with Germans, though. A bomber like that that's monstrously heavy, and yet can go faster than the fighters trying to bring it down would seem to be a paradox


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 14, 2004)

well, it didn't see that much enemy fighter action really when you think about it


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## GermansRGeniuses (Feb 14, 2004)

cuz it flew too high and was too fast now can someone else state a paradox


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 15, 2004)

the vickers wellington was called the wellington, but it didn't look like one, what's up with that?


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## Crazy (Feb 15, 2004)

The Lancaster. It doesn't look at all like Lancaster. I mean, really


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 15, 2004)

yeah, but that's different...........


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## GermansRGeniuses (Feb 16, 2004)

those arent paradoxes the nuke is it killed many and yet it saved even more


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 21, 2004)

good point (just don't say that to the millions they killed)


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 23, 2004)

how can you say it to someone if they're dead  and i expect a smart arse answer from you here 8)


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## bronzewhaler82 (Feb 23, 2004)

It was called a B-29 'Superfortress' for a reason, it was covered in guns! I don't think a bomber that big could 'outrun' any japanese fighters....this is really gonna sound silly but whats the point in covering a bomber in machine guns if there isn't a plane fast enough to catch it?


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## bronzewhaler82 (Feb 23, 2004)

I've just looked up some info on the B-29 apparently its top speed was 358mph...now its a fact that the Zero could reach 332 (not far off 358) - plus try to remember 358mph was the absolute maximum..with a bomber being shot at and damaged not to mention normal stress on the engine - no aircraft can maintain maximum speed for too long BUT the big BUT here is that the Mitsubishi Raiden codenamed 'Jack' by the allies could reach *365mph* which explains my previous point about the bombers heavy weapons....fighters could and did catch the B-29 and they did get shot down by japanese fighters sometimes 8)


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## GermansRGeniuses (Feb 23, 2004)

well yea but no plane can stay at top speed forever and actually 370mph is the absolute max with a moderate payload (moderate being 8k or less 8) )


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 24, 2004)

well cheddar cheese, you could kill yourself, then tell them


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 24, 2004)

not good enough 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 24, 2004)

heres a paradox for you, the lanc made it up so if you think its crap blame him, but if you think its good give me the credit by all means 8):


German heavy bombers of world war 2


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 24, 2004)

ah! that's old news, that was before i know more about the HE-177, which was a german heavy bomber, but that's their only true heavy bomber.


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 25, 2004)

8)


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## bronzewhaler82 (Feb 25, 2004)

GermansRGeniuses said:


> well yea but no plane can stay at top speed forever and actually 370mph is the absolute max with a moderate payload (moderate being 8k or less 8) )




If i were you mate i'd check your sources again, i've checked several of my own books and a couple of websites and none of them state the B-29 was capable of anything over 360 at the very maximum so i'm not sure where 370mph came from


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## Anonymous (Feb 25, 2004)

Sometimes you have to take "Top Speed"s of fighters and bombers with a grain of salt. These speeds are at that particular aircraft's ideal altitude, that is, the plane will be slower at all other altitudes than the rated speed. The B29s principal advantage was its ability to fly fast at very high altitude when some Japanese fighters had already "run out of breath" so to speak. 

Also, if you're talking about fighters intercepting bombers, a typical (or smart) fighter pilot won't "tail chase" a bomber formation going such-and-such mph and try to hammer them from behind, rather will attack at an angle, head on or primarily from above in a dive.


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## kiwimac (Feb 26, 2004)

Head on being the preferred option because you stand a very good chance of getting the pilot or bombadier or navigator or, with luck, all three.

Tail chasing only gets you shot at by all the rear gunners.

Kiwimac


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## ZLIN pilot (Feb 26, 2004)

Well, finally decided to get a membership...didn't want to be the smart-ass guest anymore...hehe.

The Germans did prefer the head-on attack against the American bombers, when they had time to organize it. Later they developed "sturmgruppen" tactics where a formation of 60 or so Fw 190s would attack head-on in a group, decimating the lead formations of American bombers. The first time they used this "en masse" tactic (April 44? Maybe earlier...) they shot down the entire lead low squadron (11, should've been 12 aircraft). Interesting to note that this tactic exposed them to fire from the bombardier and navigator (not top turret if the did it right) whose gunnery skills were often questionable (having taken no gunnery courses) compared to the trained gunners "further back" in the aircraft. Had they used this tactic earlier (and before effective escorts came about), it could have changed the course of American daylight bombing.

The Japanese attacked the B-17 formations in a vertical dive with their Zeros, coming in from above then pulling up towards the tail end of the formation to get their fragile planes out of range of the considerable number of 50 calibres that had their attention.


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## bronzewhaler82 (Feb 26, 2004)

Surely any text stating the Maximum speed of a bomber would make a reference to the *absolute* top speed a bomber was capable of - i'm convinced if a bomber was travelling at speeds that its engine wasn't designed for i.e over the recommended top speed (for example the official top speed for the B-29 WAS 358mph*) its engines would over-heat and burnout within minutes (depending on altitude) and even if the B-29 could reach speeds in excess of 370mph (which i still don't believe) it would only be able to maintain such speeds for a very limited period of time (i'm talking only a few mins) which i'm sure most of you would agree is not much use against persistant Fighter attack

As a footnote i have seen alot of footage from cameras fixed to fighters (y'know the type that start filming when the pilot fires the guns) and 9/10 times the fighters are approching from the REAR - and in fact it is a well known FACT that the most dangerous place to be in a bomber was in the rear tailgunners position (Most bomber aircrew deaths were of tailgunners)

Also I would argue that although attacking from the front was very popular it was always a better bet to attack from below...maybe not on bombers such as B-24s B-17s and B-29s but on other bombers such as B-25s, Avro Lancasters, Vickers Wellingtons and Hanley Page Halifaxes this wouldn't have been a problem - bombers of that type were utterly defenceless from the underneath - the main idea of attacking fighters was to destroy the engines - not the crew*


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## bronzewhaler82 (Feb 26, 2004)

I don't know why that decided to go *bold* halfway through but i appolagise


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 26, 2004)

it's a 'lil worrying that most of those bombers were brittish (the "undefendable from the bottom" ones)


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## bronzewhaler82 (Feb 26, 2004)

I don't think there was a british bomber designed during the war that had an effective underbelly defence position (The Hanley Page Hampden did but it wasn't very effective) - i don't know why but for some reason our designers just didn't bother


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## GermansRGeniuses (Feb 26, 2004)

there was no space on the lanc because of the huge bomb bay which is why it could carry so much bombs and american bombers (excluding 
B-29) had small bomb bays so this wasnt a problem


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 27, 2004)

the lanc had a 33ft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bomb bay, that's hugeconsidering it's only 69ft long overall


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 27, 2004)

wow youve done your reasearch 8)  that is pretty big though


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 28, 2004)

reserch, no, came straight off the top off my head


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 29, 2004)

so youv known that since you were born......?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 29, 2004)

of corse.....................


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 1, 2004)

i see.......


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 1, 2004)

good....................


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 2, 2004)

8).........


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 2, 2004)

now, how am i supposed to reply to that?...................


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 2, 2004)

DAMNIT U GUYS! u always talk like this is an im program with spam!


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## Crazy (Mar 2, 2004)

now germans m8, what kinda place would this be without C.C and Lanc's incessant rambling??? 8)


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 3, 2004)

Right - it just wouldn't be the same!


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 3, 2004)

wow youv made me feel real special, im onna cry  id like to thank my mum, my dad, my pets, my girlfriend, my cars...... 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 3, 2004)

me to, but in my case i've no girlfriend (not that i'm not looking), no cars, no pets, and the only person i wanna thank, is me!!!


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 3, 2004)

That was beautiful guys *Sniff*


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## Crazy (Mar 3, 2004)

*clapclapclap*


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 3, 2004)

i wish i had more hands... so i could give those dedications four thumbs DOWN! lol i got that from chappeles show only instead of dedications he says titties. im rick james bitch! i wish i had more hands... so i could give those titties four thumbs DOWN! im rick james bitch!


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 4, 2004)

come lanc, you gotta thanks me 8) if it werent for me you would have nobody to ramble to 8) (oh yea i never said thanks to the lanc either, thanks!)


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 5, 2004)

American Humour kills me - really its so sofisticated...and they say Americans have no grasp of Irony and a very poor sense of sarcasm! I wonder how many wars America has entered into cos someone made a sarcastic statement about a terrorist attack and the yanks thought they were serious? It must be why 'friends' hasn't changed its format AT ALL in god knows how many years!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 5, 2004)

> come lanc, you gotta thanks me if it werent for me you would have nobody to ramble to (oh yea i never said thanks to the lanc either, thanks!)



same to you to............................


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 5, 2004)

i dont watch friends and personally im not patriotic for shit! so u complain about the usa all you want it doesnt bother me...in fact ill prolly join in on your yank bashing (but not about the B-17)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 6, 2004)

well, for a start, everyone in 'lil old england thinks that bush is stupid, just watch any comedy, they'll proberly have a dig at bush sumwhere..........


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 6, 2004)

yup, that said, the brits hate everyone


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 7, 2004)

yup, even our own prime minister......................


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 7, 2004)

Yep, not to mention our own families, black people (only kidding!) inflation, damn kids, bad weather, old people, traffic jams, Americans, Welsh people, some cornish people and above all....er...what is it we hate the most??


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 9, 2004)

your weather 8) and dont call me a yank cuz i aint i just live here im Dutch/Portugese/Brazilian (i get my whiteness from my Dutch side, id do good in england im so white i could blend in) (but id look better so it wouldnt help much, itd blow my cover)


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## kiwimac (Mar 9, 2004)

Yes but EVERYONE hates Blair!

Down here in the South Pacific, the person we despise is Australian PM, John Howard or Bush Lite!

Kiwimac


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 9, 2004)

u guys hate blair because he deals with americans and by pm do u mean time zones?


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## kiwimac (Mar 9, 2004)

Nope PM = Prime Minister!

Kiwimac


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## Andrew (Mar 9, 2004)

> Yep, not to mention our own families, black people (only kidding!) inflation, damn kids, bad weather, old people, traffic jams, Americans, Welsh people, some cornish people and above all....er...what is it we hate the most??



Its quite simple , we hate the French most of all


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## kiwimac (Mar 9, 2004)

Vive la France!

Le Kiwimac


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 9, 2004)

Andrew said:


> > Yep, not to mention our own families, black people (only kidding!) inflation, damn kids, bad weather, old people, traffic jams, Americans, Welsh people, some cornish people and above all....er...what is it we hate the most??
> 
> 
> 
> Its quite simple , we hate the French most of all




This man hit the nail on the head!


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 9, 2004)

by some cornish people, i hope you mean the lanc


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 11, 2004)

Yeah plus i have some friends in cornwall who irritate me sometimes...


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## jj1982 (Mar 12, 2004)

I agree with bronze....THE FRENCH GET RIGHT UP MY NOSE! and believe it or not, even moreso than than the yanks...now anyone who knows me will know that this is a very serious statement and not one to be taken lightly. I dream of a day when we declare war on france.....i would be the first in the army recruitement line.....
ps sorry if thiers any frogs in here, well actually no i'm not! I hate you all


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## Huckebein (Mar 12, 2004)

concur - I've spent the last 4 years doing European History courses at college, and the French just spend the _entire time_ being pissed off with/ jealous of everyone else (Sweden, Russia, Germany/ Prussia, Spain, Britain/ England, Netherlands...).  

Doesn't exactly endear ya to them does it?

Oh yeah - and they kicked us out of America and helped it become a 'fellow republic'


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 12, 2004)

personally i got nothing against the french myself


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 12, 2004)

i got lots against the yanks though.................


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 12, 2004)

me too!

Reichsmarschall Batista


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 12, 2004)

i got an iccle bit against the yanks


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## Hot Space (Mar 12, 2004)

Why?

Hot Space


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 13, 2004)

we could be here a long time........................................


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## Hot Space (Mar 13, 2004)

I'll won't ask then  

Hot Space


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 13, 2004)

it's a 'lil late for that.................................


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 13, 2004)

8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 14, 2004)

STOP DOING THAT!!


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 20, 2004)

8) 8) 8)


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 21, 2004)

PLEASE. POST. PARADOXES. SPAM. NO. MORE. ok a paradox is how stalin was an ally but coincidentially he killed more people than hitler somehow and another (kinda) paradox is how finland's pilots werent really the best, but they were the best with crappy (mostly) planes!

Reichsmarschall Batista


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 21, 2004)

focke-wulfs were called focke-wulfs, but they werent wolfs and they didnt fock 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 21, 2004)

hehe, he said "fock" ................................


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 22, 2004)

what wrong with fock? 8) ah i see, the scottish way of saying it 8) FOCK OFF!!!


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 22, 2004)

Well the Irish say 'Feck'   

Feck off! now THATS got a ring to it 8) 

God bless father Ted!


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 22, 2004)

yep


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## jj1982 (Mar 22, 2004)

FECK< DRINK< GIRLS<FECK (Spam...isn;t it great???)


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 22, 2004)

This one could be quite a good paradox....during WW2 the Americans sent Black G.Is over to England to be sent to Europe to fight and while they were over here the locals kinda got pissed about these black chaps chatting up and sh****** our women...there were some street fights and alot of black soldiers were killed....wasn't this exactly the kind of thing Nazis were doing? hating and killing people cos of their colour...i've often been puzzled about that...a nation such as England who fought for many years against the Nazis and yet whose population is capable of this mass hate and in some incidences, no better than the Nazis? 

Opinions please?


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## jj1982 (Mar 22, 2004)

Perhaps it was more the shaggin and chatting up of our women that provoked us into beating the shit out of them.....not cos of thier creed nor colour....just a respectful thought! Population capable of mass hate??? No better than the nazis???? I thnk that in every breed of man you are going to get the fanatics.... they are in a minority and i honestly dont think that you can justify saying that the uk is as bad as the nazis......Granted we have facist movements alive but they are a mere puny voice against our civilised democratic country...


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 22, 2004)

jj1982 said:


> Perhaps it was more the shaggin and chatting up of our women that provoked us into beating the s**t out of them.....not cos of thier creed nor colour....just a respectful thought! Population capable of mass hate??? No better than the nazis???? I thnk that in every breed of man you are going to get the fanatics.... they are in a minority and i honestly dont think that you can justify saying that the uk is as bad as the nazis......Granted we have facist movements alive but they are a mere puny voice against our civilised democratic country...



there was alot of racism amoung british people during that period...we were very intolerant of anyone who wasn't white or english (why do you think so many elderly people are racist? they were the youth in those days) these weren't isolated cases and white G.Is (though unpopular) never did anything differently to the Black G.Is but they never got beaten to death 


and clearly fanatics aren't always in the minority...i think if they were then the third reich would never have been half the problem it was in the end


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 22, 2004)

not only on topic, but good points too!


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## jj1982 (Mar 22, 2004)

Occasionally people do stick to topics instead of worthless spam!


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 23, 2004)

Well with C.C and lanc around its not very often that the topic is stuck to!


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## BatGirl (Mar 23, 2004)

Well thats werid cos I dont ever remember hearing my granparents talking about how much they hated the americans during that time (infact ive never heard people from that time talk about americans in that maner) My granmother and her friends had upmost respect for them, and even told me a story where they used to cook the americans meat from their own rations.


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## Huckebein (Mar 23, 2004)

Yeah, their generation remember America as 'the country who saved our arses', whereas the modern generation, with the benefit of hindsight, can see that the circumstances under which America 'helped' Britain during the war were very much geared towards their own national benefit, and that basically Britain was screwed over by the Americans, and has been ever since...

Contraversial I know - but that's the way it looks to me.


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## Huckebein (Mar 23, 2004)

Not that I have anything against your average American citizen you understand, it's just their government and foreign policy for the last 65 years that pisses me off.


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## jj1982 (Mar 23, 2004)

I totally agree with you! I know a few septics and get on well with them....perhaps they need to sort out thier administration!?


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 23, 2004)

a septic is a type of holding tank that replaces the fact of "your waste" going into the sewers with the fact of "your waste" going into a holding tank that is cleaned every so often! i believe you mean skeptic 

Reichsmarschall Batista


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 24, 2004)

BatGirl said:


> Well thats werid cos I dont ever remember hearing my granparents talking about how much they hated the americans during that time (infact ive never heard people from that time talk about americans in that maner) My granmother and her friends had upmost respect for them, and even told me a story where they used to cook the americans meat from their own rations.



Just because it was common doesn't mean everyone felt that way, your gran is obviously a decent person

I've read reports and there was alot of it going on - as i've said alot of Black G.Is were killed by mobs who hated them being there. 
I don't know what kind of elderly people you used to work with (perhaps they were dead and no-one noticed  ) but i've worked with them lots before in hospitals and they usually always have a problem with coloured nurses or doctors

Not everyone from that period (obviously your gran was one of them) hated black people...but alot of them did - thats a fact


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 24, 2004)

Huckebein said:


> Yeah, their generation remember America as 'the country who saved our arses', whereas the modern generation, with the benefit of hindsight, can see that the circumstances under which America 'helped' Britain during the war were very much geared towards their own national benefit, and that basically Britain was screwed over by the Americans, and has been ever since...
> 
> Contraversial I know - but that's the way it looks to me.



As i said 'White' G.Is were welcomed as saviours but the Black G.Is weren't so fortunate


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 24, 2004)

GermansRGeniuses said:


> a septic is a type of holding tank that replaces the fact of "your waste" going into the sewers with the fact of "your waste" going into a holding tank that is cleaned every so often! i believe you mean skeptic
> 
> Reichsmarschall Batista



Its cockney rhyming slang mate - as we've said before...

Septic Tank: Yank

i.e American


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 24, 2004)

dumb: American


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## jj1982 (Mar 24, 2004)

septic tank>>>>what a wank>>>>>>yank>>>>>


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 24, 2004)

> dumb: American



please dont be offensive 



> septic tank>>>>what a wank>>>>>>yank>>>>>



again, less of the insults 8)


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## Rell (Mar 24, 2004)

> Yeah, their generation remember America as 'the country who saved our arses', whereas the modern generation, with the benefit of hindsight, can see that the circumstances under which America 'helped' Britain during the war were very much geared towards their own national benefit, and that basically Britain was screwed over by the Americans, and has been ever since...
> 
> Contraversial I know - but that's the way it looks to me.
> 
> What country would get involved in a war, killing millions of their own people if not for their own benefit, why do you think we entered the gulf etc, for our health?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 24, 2004)

> dumb: American



you told me to say that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 24, 2004)

i didnt


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## Huckebein (Mar 24, 2004)

Rell said:


> > Yeah, their generation remember America as 'the country who saved our arses', whereas the modern generation, with the benefit of hindsight, can see that the circumstances under which America 'helped' Britain during the war were very much geared towards their own national benefit, and that basically Britain was screwed over by the Americans, and has been ever since...
> >
> > Contraversial I know - but that's the way it looks to me.
> 
> ...



Yeah, _I_ know that, I'm just saying that my grandparent's generation were fed (or in any case believed) that the Americans _had_ come over to help us out and fight the Evil Nazis, and most of them still do. My Nan (apart from being a little on the racist side) still believes this and won't believe me when I tell her of the enormous economic and political benefits America gained by entering the war (especially by entering it half-way through!).


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 24, 2004)

Ah yes, never underestimate the power of denial! 8)


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## BatGirl (Mar 25, 2004)

> Yeah, I know that, I'm just saying that my grandparent's generation were fed (or in any case believed) that the Americans had come over to help us out and fight the Evil Nazis, and most of them still do. My Nan (apart from being a little on the racist side) still believes this and won't believe me when I tell her of the enormous economic and political benefits America gained by entering the war (especially by entering it half-way through!).



I understand the political benefits and to an extend the economic ones, but can you just explain the economic ones as you understand them


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 25, 2004)

Another Paradox just occured to me....during WW2 one of the best designs of light (i.e anti-fighter/lowflying aircraft) Anti-aircraft guns we Brits had were made by the company 'Bofor' which is a Swedish company - the obvious irony there is that Sweden was Neutral and yet I shudder to think how many Germans we killed with a neutral nations weapons!!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 25, 2004)

ok, the V-2 rocket, because when it fell from a hight of 16 miles it broke the sound barrier, you would hear it explode BEFORE you heard it coming ( i know it's not a a, i just thought it was intersting)


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 25, 2004)

> the lancaster kicks ass
> General of the Air Force



lucky sod


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 25, 2004)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> ok, the V-2 rocket, because when it fell from a hight of 16 miles it broke the sound barrier, you would hear it explode BEFORE you heard it coming ( i know it's not a a, i just thought it was intersting)


 the gun on the A-10 Warthog (modern plane) is so fast and powerful that you see the bullets hit before you hear the sound of them firing! crazy huh?

Reichsmarschall Batista


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## jj1982 (Mar 25, 2004)

hi guys

I learnt something today about the attempted recapture of monte cassino in italy... the third attempt...The aussies were there witht the americans and the gurkas and they decided to not only bring in the tanks, infantry but the air force as well. One lot came over the hills, whilst the tanks rolled forward as the bombers did there stuff. The problem was the the americans bombed the hell out of the castle town so much that when the tanks went to roll in to claim back the town, they got stuck and were sitting ducks for the germans to pick them off. A lot men died and several more were captured...I am sure that you will agree with me that whilst the tactics were sound....it really didnt work. I found this quite amazing almost to the point of amusment, however there is nothing amusing in the pounding and the pain those poor chaps had to endure...I didnt get to watch the rest of the programme so i dont know if it was succesful in the end.. If someone has any knowledge of this, please let me know. Ta


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 26, 2004)

I'm sure it was sucessful (considering we won the war  ) but how and when i'm not sure - thats always the trouble with bombing at fairly low altitudes (which i'm assuming they did) - its too much for the surrounding area usually....i wonder why they risked flying aircraft over the area..why didn't they just use an artiliary barrage?


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## jj1982 (Mar 26, 2004)

Because this was the tactic used on the previous two attempts and if it had worked then, there obviously wouldn't have been a third attempt....those on the ground were preoccupied with the sight of tanks rolling across the towns to reach them and regiments of men coming over the mountain so i guess that the aircraft were relativly safe.....


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 29, 2004)

But apparently not the roads 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 29, 2004)

(hides)


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 29, 2004)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A WEEK OR SO AGO I HAD AT LEAST 435 POSTS, NOW I HAVE 337 (COUNTING THIS ONE!!!) I KNOW THAT THERE ARE NEW POST DELETING LAWS BUT CMON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reichsmarschall Batista IS PISSED!


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 30, 2004)

Why is everybody so worried about the number of posts they have? 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 31, 2004)

because we have earned those posts, and they are a fun thing to build up 8) and whilst i understand all he reasons theyre being deleted blah blah they should be able to trust us to keep the spam down, not need to delete the posts  an you think youve got it bad germans, ive lost over 200 of my posts


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## bronzewhaler82 (Mar 31, 2004)

But some of you guys CAN'T be trusted - theres a few spoiling it for everyone else (i won't name names blah blah blah  ) - these people are trying to make the mods and admin out to be the 'bad guys' when in fact its the same 'few' who are ruining it for everyone else with TOO MUCH spam

anyway - now I'M spamming too - paradoxes of WW2....hmmm...

Isn't it funny how the Brits made a car called a Triumph 'Spitfire' and we have a beer (well, ale) called 'Spitfire' and yet there aren't any German beers called 'Me109' or cars called a 'FW190'...didn't the Germans have bloody boring names for their planes...? 

The Americans, Brits, French and even the Japs gave their planes interesting names but the Germans and Italians just gave them dull serial numbers....


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## R Pope (Mar 31, 2004)

You want a paradox, how about the fact that Italy, Germany and Japan lost the war but are in better shape now than most of the winners? Certainly far better off than they'd have been if they'd won.


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## GermansRGeniuses (Mar 31, 2004)

bronzewhaler82 said:


> But some of you guys CAN'T be trusted - theres a few spoiling it for everyone else (i won't name names blah blah blah  ) - these people are trying to make the mods and admin out to be the 'bad guys' when in fact its the same 'few' who are ruining it for everyone else with TOO MUCH spam
> 
> anyway - now I'M spamming too - paradoxes of WW2....hmmm...
> 
> ...


 ok c.c lost 200+ posts which is a lot but you can probably trace 200+ posts that were pure spam to him, but i have at the most, 60 messages of pure spam and the japs had worse names than the germans m8 they needed america to come up with nicknames like "Kate" and Betty and Zero (after we were having recog probs in dfs we captured some jap planes and decided, boys names for fighters (Zero, Claude, Tony) and girls names for bombers (Kate, Betty, Helen) and so on and so forth)

Reichsmarschall Batista


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## kiwimac (Apr 1, 2004)

Had the Germans won WW2, there almost certainly would have been cars called the 'Emil' or 'Franz' or...

Kiwimac


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 1, 2004)

GermansRGeniuses said:


> bronzewhaler82 said:
> 
> 
> > But some of you guys CAN'T be trusted - theres a few spoiling it for everyone else (i won't name names blah blah blah  ) - these people are trying to make the mods and admin out to be the 'bad guys' when in fact its the same 'few' who are ruining it for everyone else with TOO MUCH spam
> ...



Its sad that you can quote figures like that did you count them all yourself or did C.C give you a hand?  8) 

And as far as Japanese plane names go...Magnificent Lightning, Flying Dragon, Milky Way, Storm Dragon, Shooting Star...thats just a handful of the beautiful names the Japanese gave their aircraft..the best the yanks could come up with was 'flying fortress' ahhhh how poetic


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 1, 2004)




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## plan_D (Apr 1, 2004)

Mustang, Mohawk, Skytrain, Thunderbolt, Lightning, Warhawk, Kittyhawk...they aren't very inventive are they...


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 1, 2004)

nope, but then again our planes names, such as lancaster, sunderland and halifax were just the names of places, no so inventive either 8)


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## plan_D (Apr 1, 2004)

Well I don't know..Mosquito, Spitfire, Hurricane, Typhoon...We had a love with City names, annoying bugs, some kind of dragon and storms that we don't encounter...


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 1, 2004)

and the wellington.......... that speaks for itself  as does the windsor


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 1, 2004)

My point is: Germansrgeniouses clearly thinks Japanese names were non-existant and i'm saying not only did they exist...but they were the best names given to planes during WW2 - anything the Japanese produced was modelled on their way of life - hence the way their planes looked, sounded and functioned - right down to the suicidal kamikaze bombers


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 1, 2004)

My point is:........ not worth making cos i dont have one


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## GermansRGeniuses (Apr 1, 2004)

bronzewhaler82 said:


> My point is: Germansrgeniouses clearly thinks Japanese names were non-existant and i'm saying not only did they exist...but they were the best names given to planes during WW2 - anything the Japanese produced was modelled on their way of life - hence the way their planes looked, sounded and functioned - right down to the suicidal kamikaze bombers


 first of all, its GermansR_Geniuses_ and i thought you meant zero and such, i had forgotten about those and what good is "magnificent lighting" if the plane isnt too good (although im pretty sure it was, but again if i cant remember the names how should i remember the planes?) oh, well my point is: I made a mistake. and those spam figures are an estimate guessed by me, and if you dont believe check out c.c's last posts in this thread so  to you bronze!

Reichsmarschall Batista


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 2, 2004)

hey hey germans, remember the yellow card system


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 2, 2004)

GermansRGeniuses said:


> bronzewhaler82 said:
> 
> 
> > My point is: Germansrgeniouses clearly thinks Japanese names were non-existant and i'm saying not only did they exist...but they were the best names given to planes during WW2 - anything the Japanese produced was modelled on their way of life - hence the way their planes looked, sounded and functioned - right down to the suicidal kamikaze bombers
> ...



calm down mate  - You made a mistake - thats cool (and very cool that you admitted it - thankyou 8) )
As for the posts I'm sorry all those posts have been deleted and there really is not much point in getting heated up about it because they can't come back - however i would say that if you don't want to lose any more in future (and theres no reason why you should) just keep your heavy-duty spamming off the site and you (or anyone else) won't have any more problems with it...surely you can accept that there has to be some sort of limit on the amount of spam we can allow

By the way the 'Magnificent Lighting' WAS a good plane... on paper  because it had its first flight a few days before the war ended so it didn't get a chance to prove itself in combat...but on paper it looked good but as we all know on this site...that doesn't mean it was a good plane!  

p.s sorry i spelt your name wrong - i was in a hurry and my spelling isn't very good -even when iam taking my time


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 3, 2004)

right, with the Brit. names, the general pattern was that hawker used some form of storm, fairy used fish/birds and everyone else just used place names...........................


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 3, 2004)

> everyone else just used place names



ive never been to mosquito or sterling 8) or gladiator or meteor for that matter.....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 3, 2004)

there's lots of places you haven't been.......................


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 4, 2004)

I think theres a place in England called Sterling....


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## plan_D (Apr 4, 2004)

There's Stirling, as in Stirling Bridge where William Wallace completely betrayed chivalry and slaughtered those innocent horses, smart move.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 4, 2004)

and we'll be able to go to meteors one day........................


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## ahanswurst (Apr 4, 2004)

The Kawasaki NIK2-J Shinden-Kai George 21 could fly 370 mph and up to 35,300 feet It was probably the best fighter the Japanese had to bring down the B-29's . There were 480 Georges built and the Japanese did not have high octane aviation fuel. They uses a fuel extracted from pine tar and mixed that with their gasoline to get a 87 octane fuel. When WW2 ended they had some F4U Corsairs escort some Georges to another base . The Japanese pilot's airplanes were fueled with 100 octane fuel and they pulled away from the Corsairs. The Corsairs could fly 417 mph. So if the Japanese had 100 octane fuel available for their airplanes the B-29's would have been in serious trouble. As it was the Georges and Raidens accounted for more B-29's shot down that we have been told of.


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 5, 2004)

> I think theres a place in England called Sterling....



yes, i thought that as i was posting 8) in that case then.... ive never been to welkin


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## ahanswurst (Apr 5, 2004)

I was stationed at Yokota AB Japan in 1969 . One of my friends worked as an EOD (exposive ordinance Disposal) He told me that he had just came back from disarming the guns on a B-29 they found when a rice paddy was drained. He said the aircraft was 30 feet into the mud and when this news was leaked there were a whole bunch of High ranking Officers flew in to visit the crash site. I never saw any news items in the Stars and Stripes and none of the Japanese papers English editions. I often wonder why that B-29 attracted so much attention. The fact it had guns meant it had to have been one of the earlier B-29 missions beofre Lemay had ordered them removed. Anybody else know of a B-29 wreck recovered in Japan in 1969 ?


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 6, 2004)

Yeah i heard about that B-29...it had been shot down hadn't it? 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 10, 2004)

either that or the japs cursed it in some way....................


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## Crazy (Apr 10, 2004)

plan_D said:


> There's Stirling, as in Stirling Bridge where William Wallace completely betrayed chivalry and slaughtered those innocent horses, smart move.



Do I sense sarcasm? Wallace did what he had to, and won, by god!

Of course, being mostly Scottish, I have a particular bias for him 8)


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## ahanswurst (Apr 10, 2004)

bronzewhaler82 said:


> Yeah i heard about that B-29...it had been shot down hadn't it? 8)




Bronzewhaler, We have a 56th WRS board available on Yahoo.com. The address is http://polaris.umuc.edu/~lwashbur/ If you have anything more about that B-29 crash in 1969 I would like more info about that. Anybody else interested in the RB-57F long wing should visit the site. I have lots of pictures of the RB-57F that I took while stationed there from 1968-1970


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 11, 2004)

sounds interesting........................


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 12, 2004)

ahanswurst said:


> bronzewhaler82 said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah i heard about that B-29...it had been shot down hadn't it? 8)
> ...



Sorry old chap...I'm english and i was doing what we do best....being sarcastic, i know nothing about the crash BUT i would be interested if you find anything on it


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 14, 2004)

actually what we do best is que for things, we're the only culture in the world that que in a sivilised manor for things, that and bombers by the name of the "lancaster"


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 15, 2004)

Queue - not Que


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 15, 2004)

> that and bombers by the name of the "lancaster"



well if thats what we do best then we arent a very good country 8) (joke)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 15, 2004)

joke's on you, you insulted your self as well as me there.............


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 16, 2004)

i dont care though  ive always wanted to come from either italy or finland


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 16, 2004)

where's your sence of patroism?? *god save the queen*


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## bronzewhaler82 (Apr 16, 2004)

I think we should ditch Tony 'Fecking' Blair and put the Queen back in charge...she'd sort this fecking country out in 5 mins flat 8)

Then straight after she'd sorted us out she'd amass our army, take us across the Atlantic and invade the US (we did it once, we can do it again, at ANY time  ) once we had control we'd execute that moron Bush (did everyone see the dimwits latest TV appearance...made a complete fool out of himself...how the yanks could elect a monkey like him is beyond me  )


God Save the Queen 


\/


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## GermansRGeniuses (Apr 16, 2004)

bronzewhaler82 said:


> I think we should ditch Tony 'Fecking' Blair and put the Queen back in charge...she'd sort this fecking country out in 5 mins flat 8)
> 
> Then straight after she'd sorted us out she'd amass our army, take us across the Atlantic and invade the US (we did it once, we can do it again, at ANY time  ) once we had control we'd execute that moron Bush (did everyone see the dimwits latest TV appearance...made a complete fool out of himself...how the yanks could elect a monkey like him is beyond me  )
> 
> ...



INDEED! bush is a retard! God Save The Queen!


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## plan_D (Apr 16, 2004)

I don't like Bush, but that 'making a fool' was complete crap, how was he supposed to answer..'What mistakes have you made, and what have you learnt?'..The incident isn't even over, and secondly what's he supposed to say...'Never to be President again'...It was a stupid question..I would have said 'Not to allow fools like you to ask me stupid questions'

Tony Blair does a better job, a little more articulate and even more believable than Bush...it's not hard though..


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 17, 2004)

> how the yanks could elect a monkey like him is beyond me )



he fixed it, he actually lost but he had it fixed so he won 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 17, 2004)

> God Save The Queen!



couldn't you get done for being a trator for that?


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 19, 2004)

yup  hes hardly gonna say, 'god save our bush' though is he


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 19, 2004)

it cirtainly would make a very amusing national anthem....................


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 19, 2004)

sure would


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 23, 2004)

here's a paradox, they said the B-17 was good, when it clearly wasn't.............


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 28, 2004)

it was good!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 28, 2004)

not as good as the lancaster..................


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## cheddar cheese (Apr 29, 2004)

was better 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 29, 2004)

nothing was better then the lancaster..............


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## cheddar cheese (May 1, 2004)

except the b-17, b-29, p.108 (would have been better), wellington....... etc etc 8)


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## Lightning Guy (May 2, 2004)

I don't think the Wellington can be considered superior to the Lanc in any respect. I love the Wimpy but it's going to lose out in speed, range, payload, defensive armament, and the fact that the Lanc completely replaced it.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 2, 2004)

i don't see how the P.108 was better aswell...............


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## cheddar cheese (May 3, 2004)

the bit about the wimpy was a joke  and i didnt say the P.108 was better, i said it WOULD have been better, read carefully!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 3, 2004)

go on then, how WOULD it be better?


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## cheddar cheese (May 3, 2004)

well, once the problem of rotting was out the way (very common with italian structures) it would have been a highly versatile plane had it been developed 8)


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## Lightning Guy (May 3, 2004)

Translation: If the Germans had the P.108 it might have turned into a halfway decent aircraft, with the Italians it was junk.


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## plan_D (May 4, 2004)

Exactly...


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## cheddar cheese (May 4, 2004)

would have been a great aircraft


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## cheddar cheese (May 4, 2004)

would have been a great aircraft


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## plan_D (May 5, 2004)

Yes, it would have been if the Germans got it.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 5, 2004)

but there's allot of what ifs, we'll never know what would have happend............


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## plan_D (May 5, 2004)

No, we don't but it's always interesting to ask.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 5, 2004)

of course the lancaster would have a staring role whatever happend.............


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## plan_D (May 6, 2004)

Not if the Lancaster never got designed. And I went back in time and gave them the plans for the B-52, with engine plans and everything.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 8, 2004)

they would proberly got more use out of planes for the B-29 at the start of the war................


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