# Is it possible to build a WW2 Fighter?



## Blacky (May 11, 2021)

Hey. This might be a dumb question. Actually im a guy that can fly a plane. Only small ones like C172 or ASK23 / 21.
Because im very bored and i want to do something nice, i actually want to reconstruckt a Fighter out of WW2 in real size. Something like a Bf109 (G2 or K4 or something like that).
Im just aiming for a design with a retractable landing gear, good power and that "old" fighter look.
I love those planes and i really wanna try to do it. Of course I dont want to perfectly reconstruckt everything, but close to that. So what do you think? Where can i get blueprints from? Where should i start? Is it even possible for a "layman" like me? I know everything a PPL - having person knows about a plane. Im in a club for flying (idk the exact word for that in english, its something like a flight school).


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## tyrodtom (May 11, 2021)

Do you have the mechanical skills, welding skills, fabricating skills, etc. to build a car from scratch ?

If you do, you might attempt it, but it's going to be even harder to build a aircraft of any sort, let alone a WW2 fighter.

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## Blacky (May 11, 2021)

tyrodtom said:


> Do you have the mechanical skills, welding skills, fabricating skills, etc. to build a car from scratch ?
> 
> If you do, you might attempt it, but it's going to be even harder to build a aircraft of any sort, let alone a WW2 fighter.


I have some skills doing it. I already built a motorcycle before. Im just not sure where to start from. I need blueprints or something. Then i can decide wich material i use.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 11, 2021)

Blacky said:


> Hey. This might be a dumb question. Actually im a guy that can fly a plane. Only small ones like C172 or ASK23 / 21.
> Because im very bored and i want to do something nice, i actually want to reconstruckt a Fighter out of WW2 in real size. Something like a Bf109 (G2 or K4 or something like that).
> Im just aiming for a design with a retractable landing gear, good power and that "old" fighter look.
> I love those planes and i really wanna try to do it. Of course I dont want to perfectly reconstruckt everything, but close to that. So what do you think? Where can i get blueprints from? Where should i start? Is it even possible for a "layman" like me? I know everything a PPL - having person knows about a plane. Im in a club for flying (idk the exact word for that in english, its something like a flight school).



It's been done, I hope you have deep pockets!

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 11, 2021)

Nothing is impossible.

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## cvairwerks (May 11, 2021)

A scratch built Mustang is pretty easy if you have the skills or deep pockets. Just realize that you are going to need in the range of half a million bucks just for the engine, prop cooling system and landing gear. Longerons and wing attach fittings will set you back another 50 grand or more.
The scale Spitfire kit is about 180K$.
It won't be a quick project by any means..... Jurcara scale replicas end up taking several thousand manhours over 10-20 years to be completed by the average builder. Even a current Van's RV, kit, with all it's prepunched holes and prepared parts will take you a thousand manhours or more to build.

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## GrauGeist (May 11, 2021)

Aside from out of the pocket expense for the engine, airframe fabrication and a place to build it, you have to have it certified airworthy, registered and insured.
There's a great many replicas out there, but as has been noted, they can easily approach a million (US) to purchase.

As an idea, several members on this forum build 1:1 scale replicas of WWII fighter cockpits, which might be a bit more affordable. Plus many airshows welcome the cockpit displays.

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## cvairwerks (May 12, 2021)

Registration would be under EA-B rules and you would be able to get ground hull insurance without too much of a fuss. Until you have several hundred hours in a T-6 or higher performance warbird, you can’t afford flying coverage.

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## Blacky (May 12, 2021)

Thanks for all you're replies.

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## Snautzer01 (May 12, 2021)

Why not go after a piper j3 cub.
Piper J-3 Cub - Wikipedia

PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale Europe - New planes and price reductions

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## cvairwerks (May 12, 2021)

An L-bird would be an excellent way to get your feet wet in the warbird world. L-2, 3,4,5,17 or 21 are all good, lower cost projects. A 2 thru a 5 can be done for around the price of a new, medium equipped pick up truck, while a 17 or 21 will approach the cost of a new Suburban. All 6 of these birds will fly 5-10 hours or more than the fuel cost to fly something with a Merlin or big Pratt for a single hour.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 12, 2021)

Snautzer01 said:


> Why not go after a piper j3 cub.
> Piper J-3 Cub - Wikipedia
> 
> PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale Europe - New planes and price reductions
> ...



I’d love to own one actually. That or a Storch. Would be enjoyable to cruise around in.

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## vikingBerserker (May 12, 2021)

Storch would be awesome!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 12, 2021)

vikingBerserker said:


> Storch would be awesome!



Yeah it would. I’d just land in my driveway into the wind.


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## cvairwerks (May 12, 2021)

Having worked on Storches, they are interesting airplanes, but have a few drawbacks.... They are slow....incredibly slow, an 85 horse Cub is faster....They are not heat tolerant, unless you have the tropical oil cooler, and I don't think any of them that fly these days have one. They take a larger hangar to store, unless you have several people to help you fold and unfold the wings. They do not like long taxis, as the wheels have bushings and not bearings, and the original brakes are marginal for hard surfaces. Easiest way to put it, if it's ballooning weather, then it's Storch time!

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 12, 2021)

cvairwerks said:


> Having worked on Storches, they are interesting airplanes, but have a few drawbacks.... They are slow....incredibly slow, an 85 horse Cub is faster....They are not heat tolerant, unless you have the tropical oil cooler, and I don't think any of them that fly these days have one. They take a larger hangar to store, unless you have several people to help you fold and unfold the wings. They do not like long taxis, as the wheels have bushings and not bearings, and the original brakes are marginal for hard surfaces. Easiest way to put it, if it's ballooning weather, then it's Storch time!



I would not buy one for speed. As a pilot and an A&P I think it would be enjoyable to fly, and to work on.

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## Baball (May 12, 2021)

If you're courageous enough there should be almost enough material in the Polikarpov U-2 manuals to learn how build one from scratch.

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## FLYBOYJ (May 12, 2021)



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## cvairwerks (May 12, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I would not buy one for speed. As a pilot and an A&P I think it would be enjoyable to fly, and to work on.


LOL...A friend flew on of them from the Fort Worth area where it was based, down to Harlingen one year for the big airshow and to winter it down there....His biggest complaint after the heat in the cockpit, was being passed by every VW beetle on the interstate he was following. Wes said he averaged about 51 mph for the trip down. He refused to fly it back in the spring. You know it's slow when a 48 hp, air cooled Bug can outrun you......

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## cvairwerks (May 12, 2021)

Kermit did a nice little 3 part series on his bird....

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 12, 2021)

cvairwerks said:


> LOL...A friend flew on of them from the Fort Worth area where it was based, down to Harlingen one year for the big airshow and to winter it down there....His biggest complaint after the heat in the cockpit, was being passed by every VW beetle on the interstate he was following. Wes said he averaged about 51 mph for the trip down. He refused to fly it back in the spring. You know it's slow when a 48 hp, air cooled Bug can outrun you......



Well yeah, it wasn’t built for speed...


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## GrauGeist (May 12, 2021)

There's a full scale replica Storch that flies in this area. It's the newer Serbian manufactured version and it's painted in Afrika Korps camo.
It's powered by a Lycoming if memory serves right.


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## cvairwerks (May 12, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Well yeah, it wasn’t built for speed...



Winner of the understatement for the morning...

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 12, 2021)

Winner of the attitude for the morning award...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 12, 2021)

GrauGeist said:


> There's a full scale replica Storch that flies in this area. It's the newer Serbian manufactured version and it's painted in Afrika Korps camo.
> It's powered by a Lycoming if memory serves right.



Used to watch them at the Hahnweide airshow back in Germany. Loved watching them practically hover down the grass strip into the wind.

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## GrauGeist (May 12, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Used to watch them at the Hahnweide airshow back in Germany. Loved watching them practically hover down the grass strip into the wind.


There's a local group of Bush Pilots and they had an open fly-in at Benton (O85) and the Storch made a surprise visit.
There was a nice breeze out of the North that morning and the Storch's approach on 33 was literally at a person's brisk walk, and held steady at about 25-30 AGL all the way to the ramp area, where he cut back and it gently set down like a feather.
The Bush Pilots were all cheering at the sight - it was truly impressive to see.


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## Conslaw (May 12, 2021)

I read a number of years ago that there are enough P-51s flying to create a market justifying building new parts for just about every part of the airplane. In theory, then, you could build a P-51 from scratch if you had enough know-how, equipment, time and money to do it. But it won't be a Mustang unless it has an original serial number. That's why even some real basket case wrecks are valuable - they at least come with a serial number. Maybe somebody with more knowledge of FAA regulations can chime in on the difference it makes with a serial number or no serial number to get approval to fly your aircraft.

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## cvairwerks (May 12, 2021)

Doing something like a Mustang, one runs into quite a controversy with it being a rebuild, a replica or a representation. The definitions are open to wildly varying interpretations based on a number of criteria. It's a highly volatile subject that can get nasty real quickly. My take is be truthful with what you call it and how you document it. Coming from the aircraft production side of the world, as long as you have an original dataplate, it's rebuildable. No dataplate, but per original and operational prints from it's operational life cycle, it's a replica. If it looks like, flies like the original, but has enough differences that the original manufacturer would have to assign a different model or block designation, it's a representation.
95% of the people that look at a Mustang wouldn't know the truth about whatever airframe they were standing in front of unless they were told. The absolute purist count rivets and complain about incorrect paint color formulations and wire types, while the realists see it for what it is..a great flying and fun aircraft!

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## imalko (May 12, 2021)

GrauGeist said:


> There's a full scale replica Storch that flies in this area. It's the newer Serbian manufactured version and it's painted in Afrika Korps camo.
> It's powered by a Lycoming if memory serves right.


 
I believe this is what you're talking about... 

Slepcev Storch - Wikipedia

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## GrauGeist (May 12, 2021)

imalko said:


> I believe this is what you're talking about...
> 
> Slepcev Storch - Wikipedia


Yes sir, that's the one.


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## pbehn (May 12, 2021)

If it was that easy, Supermarine would have just sent drawings out to every garage, workshop and airplane enthusiast in 1936. The war would have been over in 1941.

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## Buster01 (May 13, 2021)

Blacky said:


> Hey. This might be a dumb question. Actually im a guy that can fly a plane. Only small ones like C172 or ASK23 / 21.
> Because im very bored and i want to do something nice, i actually want to reconstruckt a Fighter out of WW2 in real size. Something like a Bf109 (G2 or K4 or something like that).
> Im just aiming for a design with a retractable landing gear, good power and that "old" fighter look.
> I love those planes and i really wanna try to do it. Of course I dont want to perfectly reconstruckt everything, but close to that. So what do you think? Where can i get blueprints from? Where should i start? Is it even possible for a "layman" like me? I know everything a PPL - having person knows about a plane. Im in a club for flying (idk the exact word for that in english, its something like a flight school).


You might want to consider the Spitfire kit made by Supermarine Aircraft.

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## SaparotRob (May 13, 2021)

That's pretty cool.


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## CHAD VEICH (May 14, 2021)

A good place to start. 

Home


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## swampyankee (May 14, 2021)

You may want to visit one of the homebuilder websites, like homebuiltairplanes.com/


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## Finknottle (May 15, 2021)

Back in the ancient ages of the internet ~20 years ago, there were the guys up in the Dakotas, iirc, that built a pair of fiberglass Bf-109s. So, it's not impossible...

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## mjfur (May 15, 2021)

Finknottle said:


> Back in the ancient ages of the internet ~20 years ago, there were the guys up in the Dakotas, iirc, that built a pair of fiberglass Bf-109s. So, it's not impossible...


Warbird Information Exchange • View topic - Dakota Messerschmitts


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## Snowygrouch (May 15, 2021)

Blacky said:


> Hey. This might be a dumb question. Actually im a guy that can fly a plane. Only small ones like C172 or ASK23 / 21.
> Because im very bored and i want to do something nice, i actually want to reconstruckt a Fighter out of WW2 in real size. Something like a Bf109 (G2 or K4 or something like that).
> Im just aiming for a design with a retractable landing gear, good power and that "old" fighter look.
> I love those planes and i really wanna try to do it. Of course I dont want to perfectly reconstruckt everything, but close to that. So what do you think? Where can i get blueprints from? Where should i start? Is it even possible for a "layman" like me? I know everything a PPL - having person knows about a plane. Im in a club for flying (idk the exact word for that in english, its something like a flight school).



You can absolutely do it, for a serious air-superiority fighter like a 109, a conservative estimate if you already have the appropriate facilities, tools and staff, would be a baseline of 3million USD. At least half a million of that would go on a Daimler-Benz engine alone.

You can get kits for the 190 and Spitfire, if you dont have 20 years to spare, and a pile of gold bars, I would do that if I were you.

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## Bozothenutter (May 24, 2021)

Remember the Spitfire Mk.I that was recovered from the Calais beach (more destroyed really, "let's put a rope on an a/c that's been buried for 50 years and is filled with sand and pull it out with a tractor")
That was basically rebuilt around a dataplate, and very nicely too!
Even engines can be manufactured, IF your pockets are deep enough, Audi had new blocks cast by Crostwaithe&Gardiner for their 30's F1 cars smuggled out of Russia...

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