# What kind of car do you drive?



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2005)

What kind of car do you drive? 

Ive got a 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4WD

Shes a bit dirty cuz I have not washed her due to the stormy weather here in Germany right now. I would like to trade her in for 2005 maybe but what I really want is a 2004. I just prefer the body style on the 2004's.

Jeep there is only one!


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## evangilder (Jul 6, 2005)

Nice. My father in law used to drive one just like it. He had 3 grand cherokees until the last one he had. I don't remember the year, but it turned out to be a real POS that left him stranded in the Sierras 3 times. It could have just been a bad one, but it turned him away from Jeeps because the dealer could never find anything wrong. I know a lot of people that are very happy with them though.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2005)

I am a Jeep freak. It is all my family has pretty much owned. We have never had a problem with though. I dont know about other years though, soem may be crap like you say.


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## evangilder (Jul 6, 2005)

It is possible that he just got a defective one. Unfortunately, the dealer couldn't find anything wrong, so it left a bad taste in his mouth. Can't say I blame him.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2005)

I have heard of people having electrical problems with there Jeeps. The computers seem to be a little finicky if you know what I mean.


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## evangilder (Jul 6, 2005)

Yep, and that seemed to be what was happening with his. Something wasn't right.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2005)

Yeah I have had minor problems with mine but nothing major. I usually just disconnect the battary and reconnect it and it works just fine. I love them.


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## evangilder (Jul 6, 2005)

Yes, most people don't have the problems he did. Almost everyone else that I know that has them love them too.


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## Pisis (Jul 6, 2005)

I'm still in the process of making my own driver license - two months to get it...  

However, I yet got a car. Škoda Felicia Combi... pretty rusty though... I don't have a pic of it here, but just to see how this trash looks like, hehe (mine is silver metallise, as well. But much older and in much worst condition):
















A lot of Škoda's are driven here, in Israel. I've also seen many in Germany, Austria, Poland, Slovakia and the UK. Very good car!


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## Pisis (Jul 6, 2005)

Israeli Police Škoda Car:

 http://www.aiamcorp.com/shopimg/10229-1


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## evangilder (Jul 6, 2005)

I had friends with Skoda's when I was in England. They seemed to lie them. Definitely a LOT better than the FSOs that a few guys drove.


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## JCS (Jul 6, 2005)

I dont have my license or a car yet, but when I'm in the Marines I'd like to get a Ford F150 or a Dodge 2500....


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## Erich (Jul 6, 2005)

work : 71 Chevy 1-ton flat bed

for the Mrs.: 2004 Pontiac Vibe

personal choice: Cervelo TT ~


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2005)

You were saying in Germany they drive Skodas a lot. About 5 minutes from my place is a Skoda dealership.

I like the F-150's but I personally go for Rams when it comes to pickups.


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## Erich (Jul 6, 2005)

are Opels still seen about in Deutschland Adler ? Audi's obviously with the monster plant outside of Ingolstadt.

I'll still stick with my trusty two ~ wheeler


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jul 6, 2005)

I'm getting a white 1972 VW Bug from my dad. 8)


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## trackend (Jul 6, 2005)

Fiat Bravo, missus has a Fiat Punto a Hyundai Coupe for the weekends.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 6, 2005)

1989 Ford Fiesta XR2 Mk.II. Damn quick 8) Figures for standard XR2's are a 0-60mph of 9.3secs, which for a 16 year old car with an ancient 1.6 engine inst bad, because mine has no unnecessary stuff in it (Like windows, bumbers, seats, dashboard, trim etc) I reckon its actually somewhere in the 8.0-8.5 sec bracket 8)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2005)

Erich said:


> are Opels still seen about in Deutschland Adler ? Audi's obviously with the monster plant outside of Ingolstadt.
> 
> I'll still stick with my trusty two ~ wheeler



Yeah you see a lot of Opels but a lot of people are going to the Audis right now. Audi A8's are pretty sweet. The most seen cars are VW's (VW Jettas are fricken great), BMW's and Mercedes.

I personally of the bunch like Mercedes the best.

And CC my wife drives a Ford Fiesta also, but is fixing to die on her so maybe I can talk her into buying herself a Jeep Liberty, or buy me a 2004 or 2005 Grand Cherokee and she drive my 95.


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## Erich (Jul 6, 2005)

yep some big bad Northwest 4x4's on the autobahn ! yep that is what they need. second vehicle in almost 1/2 of the occupants in my slave state


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2005)

Whats that I did not quite understand that post Erich. Please excuse me.


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## MichaelHenley (Jul 7, 2005)

Do the cars that we'd like to buy count? if so, then I'd like a 2nd hand nissan Skyline, an 1997 R33. They look really good.


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## evangilder (Jul 7, 2005)

I am currently driving a 1994 Toyota Camry that is having a few minor problems. Nothing worth getting rid of the car for though. It still gets me where I need to go.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 7, 2005)

Yeah this is for cars that you drive and cars that you seriously want.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 7, 2005)

Ive had 2 minis, a Metro and my XR2. Ive always wanted I Triumph Dolomite Sprint, but in town ive recently seen a more mediocro solly for sale....I wonder how much...Just looking Id give about £200-250 for it. It needs some work.


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jul 7, 2005)

Well, like I said, I'm getting a Beetle but would like to buy a Porsche 944 Turbo as a weekend car.


Oh, and I want my parents to buy a used Mercedes as a trip/weekend car. Preferrably a 560SEL or 560SEC. Gotta love the pillarless coupe. 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 7, 2005)

My parents had the option of buying a high-mileage 3 year old Audi A6 for just £5,000, but instead the went for a scabby old Vauxhall Frontera. BASTARDS!


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## me262 (Jul 7, 2005)

i have a 2001 4X4 blazer for the weekends
a 92 honda accord for work, manual trans.my favorite!!!!
and the missus a 96 mercury villager


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## MikeMan (Jul 7, 2005)

My car: 1992 Mitsubushi Mirage Cyborg R (MIVEC 172HP Model)
Wifes car: 1996 RAV4 3 Door
Project car: 1986 Mitsubushi Starion (I am putting a Lexus V8 in this)


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## Wildcat (Jul 7, 2005)

I drive a Holden VS Commodore (V6) its red so it goes fast!


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## evangilder (Jul 7, 2005)

hehe Red is the faster color? So that's what I have been missing...


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## me262 (Jul 7, 2005)

i forgot to tell you that my blazer is red!!!!


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## MichaelHenley (Jul 8, 2005)

I used to have a red blazer @ my old school, I was jerk of the grade!!!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 8, 2005)

man how CC aspires to win that title.........


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 8, 2005)

I think I must have won that by now, dont ya think? Especially when I come in wearing a pin t-shirt next non uniform day 



> Project car: 1986 Mitsubushi Starion (I am putting a Lexus V8 in this)



Youre crazy!


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## mosquitoman (Jul 8, 2005)

I'm learning in a Toyaota Yaris, does that count?


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 8, 2005)

Toyota Yaris? Poor, poor you.


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## mosquitoman (Jul 8, 2005)

It's better than it sounds


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 8, 2005)

With a 1 litre engine anything sounds better


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## mosquitoman (Jul 8, 2005)

It's a diesel Yaris, so you're probably right


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 8, 2005)

Gordon Bennett...DIESEL...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 8, 2005)

hey diesels are amazing engines!!


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## DAVIDICUS (Jul 8, 2005)

2004 BMW M5

The wife drives a 2003 Chevrolet Suburban.

21 month old son just drives us both crazy.


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## evangilder (Jul 8, 2005)

It gets better, Davidicus, believe me. Ours turned 4 in May and he is alot of fun. At least until he turns into a teenager!


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## trackend (Jul 8, 2005)

Oh the joys of being a parent with teenagers Evan when they start telling you that you dont know nothing and your the worse parent on the planet and if they want to smoke or stay out late they will or they will call the police and accuse you of assault.
"And I am not going to wear £30 trainers as only a nerd would be seen in those ones £90 is the minimum". happy days


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 8, 2005)

i'm not like that at all!


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## trackend (Jul 8, 2005)

So your quite content with a pair of £19.99 trainers from Primark then Lanc, In that case get out the adoption papers your comin too Essex.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 8, 2005)

well, my most expensive footwear is my British army Mk.4 assult boots, they were £35 but they're tough as, well, old boots, and i use allot, is that ok??


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jul 8, 2005)

DAVIDICUS said:


> 2004 BMW M5



You suck. That is all.


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## trackend (Jul 8, 2005)

Marvelous, just my kind of teenager


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 8, 2005)

and of course you'd have to put up with my model making and plane books that i sometimes leave lying around


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## evangilder (Jul 8, 2005)

Ah, you sell that so well, trackend! Anyone want a slightly used 4 year old, no bruises?


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## DAVIDICUS (Jul 8, 2005)

I misspoke. It's a 2003 BMW M5. I bought it at the end of 2003 and remember that I didn't like the styling of the new 2004 models so I opted for one of the few remaining 2003 models. 

This is just a stock photo of a 2003 M5. Mine is blue and has five spoke wheels.


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## toffigd (Jul 8, 2005)

I drive a silver Skoda Felicia, just the same as Pisis, but prefer a mountain bike  E.g. I go to work by bike every day, that's about 15km, mostly by the bike-way just by the sea!


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## mosquitoman (Jul 8, 2005)

I prefer to walk everywhere (or stagger if I'm coming back from the pub i.e tonight)


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## Lunatic (Jul 9, 2005)

I went out and bought this last week. Still needs a brush (deer) gaurd and real skid plates. I wanted to buy American, but the Tundra TRD 4x4 is much faster on rough dirt roads and I will have a need for speed. It's made in Indiana so it really doesn't matter much (Lexus V8 engine is from Japan though).

=S=

Lunatic


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jul 9, 2005)

Argh.


I hate pickups and all sorts of trucks. Vans are fine though, if you actually do have things to move around and/or lots of kids or lots of people to haul.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 9, 2005)

Vans are great! Especially Austin Maestro vans... 8)


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## Lunatic (Jul 9, 2005)

GermansRGeniuses said:


> Argh.
> 
> 
> I hate pickups and all sorts of trucks. Vans are fine though, if you actually do have things to move around and/or lots of kids or lots of people to haul.



It's my first pickup. I needed a 1/2 or larger 4x4 pickup. Something that can go fast across dirt roads and won't get stuck, and that can haul a "tool box" (that's an understatement, it needs to haul a 2.5' x 2.5' x 7' box made of 5 mm steel containing very expensive tools).

I chose this one because it drives like a car (great suspension) and is faster than the F-150 or other choices across dirt roads.

=S=

Lunatic

PS: bout to hit the road


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## lesofprimus (Jul 9, 2005)

Not to be rude, but I cant help notice that u have some wierd kinda disfigurement on ur face... I think I know a really good Plastic Carver, I mean Surgeon, who could probably help with that birth defect...

Please dial 1800-CARVEME (1800-227-8363) and ask for Doctor Vinny BoomBaatz... He's alittle $$$, but worth it...


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 9, 2005)




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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 10, 2005)

LOL. I am not big of a Pick Up Fan but I did buy one I would want a Dodge Ram or Dakota or maybe a Silverado. My buddy has a nice Silverado, really big and a really large truck bed. I personally am a SUV man and mostly Jeep. It and Mercedes is all my family has ever owned and of the two I love the Jeeps.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 10, 2005)

I dont think ill ever purchase an SUV...Id rather have a big, powerful Estate car (Audi RS6, for instance  ) But ill be sticking to fast classic cars I think.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 10, 2005)

I love good classic cars. I really would like to get a 1973 Mercedes 350 SL or a 67 Corvette. I think most of all though I would love a 57 Chevy.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 10, 2005)

I want one of the orignal Triumph TR8's or an old Lotus Esprit.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 10, 2005)

Id go with the Triumph.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 10, 2005)

Yeah me too, the thing is TR8's are very rare, tons of people have just stuck a V8 in a normal TR7 to get, in effect, a TR8, but I want an orginal.

I think I have a Triumph fixation  Id like a TR8, Dolomite Sprint, Stag and TR6 trophy, á la Great Escape bike


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 11, 2005)

Id love to have a Chavelle.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 12, 2005)

Yeah Chevelles are nice, I thnk id rather have a Plymouth Superbird though.


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## trackend (Jul 12, 2005)

My old man had a T120, CC and I had a Matchless CSR not as good as this one though and I always liked the TR4A with the Surrey top


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 12, 2005)

Nice! 8)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 12, 2005)

For a Bike I would have to go with a good old Harley Davidson Fat Boy.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 12, 2005)

Id like a Harley, but in Britain theyre just pointless. Id rather have a classic Triumph.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 19, 2005)

Why are they pointless in England?


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 20, 2005)

Our roads are too twisty.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 20, 2005)

Twisty roads are perfect for a Harley. Harleys are not made for speed but rather for cruising. They are not Rice Burning Crotch Rockets.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 20, 2005)

Im not so sure. To me, a twisty road encourages speed. You need a fast vehicle for twisty roads. Harleys are for long straight roads.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 20, 2005)

Harleys are built for cruising. My friend has one and he loves riding it on the twisting German roads.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 20, 2005)

I stand corrected. I still wouldnt buy one for Britain though.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 20, 2005)

Either way a Harley is much better than a Rice Burning Crotch Rocket!


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 20, 2005)

Definately. Id buy British or American for bikes....Jap are good but no soul (except Honda...)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 20, 2005)

I dont care if the bike is Japanese or not I just can not stand crotch rockets.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 20, 2005)

Fair Dinkum.
I wouldnt mind a Triumph Sprint. My Uncle has one, lush bikes.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 20, 2005)

i'd rather have a scrambler like i ride now.........


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 20, 2005)

Here is a nice 2005 Fatboy


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 20, 2005)

Swanky 8)

Scramblers...?

NIN NIN NIN NIN NIN NIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNN NIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNN NINININININ NNNNNNNniiiiiiiinnnnnnnnIIIIINN NNNNNNNIIIIIIINNNNNNN pop pop pop pop pop NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 20, 2005)

I like the loud manly sound of a Harley. The louder the better.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 20, 2005)

Everything is better loud.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 20, 2005)

If it is too loud you are too old.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 20, 2005)

And if you are too old you are too loud. It works both ways.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 20, 2005)

I guess you are right.


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## MichaelHenley (Jan 7, 2006)

I want a 4-door Aston Martin Rapide...

Its the best way of getting 3 girls to go out with you at once...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 7, 2006)

one way of putting it..........


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 7, 2006)

Nah Id have the Maserati Quattroporte. Its Italian, which means its better. And the Aston will Probably cost more. And the front of all Astons look identical. The only Astons Id have are the DB9, the old V8 Vantage or the even older V8 Vantage  But the Masser is the best 4 door saloon.


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## syscom3 (Jan 7, 2006)

I have a 2000 Chevy Silverado pick up truck with the extended cab. 

Excellent truck to use for around town.


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## JCS (Jan 7, 2006)

Man, those rims on that Aston Martin up there have to be the ugliest things I've ever seen on a car.

For the life of me I'll never understand this new thing on cars with giant rims and like 1/2 an inch of tire around it, they look like something from a 5 year olds toybox.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 7, 2006)

i agree most of the time they look stupid but i think they look ok on that aston...........


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 8, 2006)

On my way to the Saunas in Bad Winsheim yesterday with my wife and friends my Grand Cherokee got rear ended at a traffic light but this dumb lady who does not deserve to be on the roads. It was quite funny though because her car had quite some damage to it and my Jeep did not even have a scratch on it. I could do nothing but point at her and laugh at how dumb she is and what kind of crap little ford she had.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 8, 2006)

We picked up our new car today, VW Passat 1.8 Turbo 20V sport. 4 and a half years old, lovely car. Teehee


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## pbfoot (Jan 8, 2006)

1992 camry with 370K km i last checked oil last spring but the warning light will come on if its low when you turn right


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 8, 2006)

My buddy just bought a brand new Passat. That thing is sweet.

Later this year or early next year I want to buy a 2006/2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee and somewhere between a 2002 and 2005 Jeep Liberty. The Grand Cherokee is to replace the Grand Cherokee that I have right now and the Liberty is for me wife. She thinks that Libertys are cute.


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## lesofprimus (Jan 8, 2006)

Just bought my wife a new Chrysler Sebring Touring Convertible... Very nice.... I am now in reciept of 25 "Get a Free Blowjob" Cards...


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 8, 2006)

Awesome....That looks pretty neat, and im not a fan of modern American cars...But thats nice...


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## lesofprimus (Jan 8, 2006)

Couple more then to satisfy ur interest...


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## plan_D (Jan 8, 2006)

Can't say I like the grill, but the rest is nice.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 8, 2006)

lesofprimus said:


> Just bought my wife a new Chrysler Sebring Touring Convertible... Very nice.... I am now in reciept of 25 "Get a Free Blowjob" Cards...



LOL


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## Parmigiano (Jan 9, 2006)

... one cylinder is not enough, and three are too many...
And Harleys reminds me of handsome ladies dressed as whores, so the right bike is ...


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 9, 2006)

mine


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 9, 2006)

here -


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## plan_D (Jan 9, 2006)

Ah, a Mustang. B-E-A-utiful. All you need now is a P-51D Mustang to sit next to it as opposed to a Cessna ...and that picture would be extremely sexy. Maybe replace your current Mustang with a Shelby GT500 ...


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 9, 2006)

plan_D said:


> Ah, a Mustang. B-E-A-utiful. All you need now is a P-51D Mustang to sit next to it as opposed to a Cessna ...and that picture would be extremely sexy. Maybe replace your current Mustang with a Shelby GT500 ...



I wish! With baby on the way I'll be luck to acquire a new bicycle!


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## plan_D (Jan 9, 2006)

So, getting a B-29 is out of the question as well then?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 9, 2006)

how easy is it to get personalised plates in america?


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## lesofprimus (Jan 9, 2006)

Very... A couple exstra bucks and u got it...


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 9, 2006)

Wow Les, you own a Hertz then and took one of the cars home? 

Speaking of personalized plates, the greatest plate evAr just has to be "PORSCHE" as seen on a 1950-something race-spec 956 Carrera 2....


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 9, 2006)

plan_D said:


> So, getting a B-29 is out of the question as well then?




Yep - but mabe an F-86


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## lesofprimus (Jan 9, 2006)

> Wow Les, you own a Hertz then and took one of the cars home?


Huh???


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## Chris_G (Jan 10, 2006)

On the origional question i drive a rather nice old Vauxhall Cavalier TD. Not fast but it has never let me down in 3 years.


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## Pisis (Jan 10, 2006)

nice Passat there. Congrats on ur bargain (was it?)!


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 10, 2006)

lesofprimus said:


> > Wow Les, you own a Hertz then and took one of the cars home?
> 
> 
> Huh???




(You just bought the ultimate rental car - tourists wanting to get some rays ALWAYS get a Sebring...)


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## lesofprimus (Jan 10, 2006)

Oh ok gotcha...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 11, 2006)

Parmigiano said:


> ... one cylinder is not enough, and three are too many...
> And Harleys reminds me of handsome ladies dressed as whores, so the right bike is ...



You do not really think that the BMW bike is better than a Harley. I have a relative who works for the BMW company and buys only BMW cars and he says he would never buy a BMW bike. He calls them the crap! HARLEY ALL THE WAY!


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 11, 2006)

the only bikes Id have would be a Triumph, Ducati or MV Agusta.


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 11, 2006)

Harley = shite.

It's as simple as that - if you must have something loud and obnoxious on two wheels, it might as well look good, go fast, and be able to turn well, none of which Harleys accomplish. Buell bikes are nice for American, though.

Though I will admit to liking V8 cruisers, not that I'd own one, but the sheer ridiculous-ness(?) of them appeals to me. There's a Boss Hog shop in my town and I wanna stop by someday to get a closer look.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 12, 2006)

You are completely lost. How can you say that about Harley. You have no clue about bikes man. Harley = quality, loud, beautiful and a good ride!


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## Parmigiano (Jan 13, 2006)

If I have to be serious I say tha ALL bikes are nice, the rest is a matter of taste.
My choice is the BMW boxer, I just like it by heart and I think is the best piece of iron ever put above two wheels!

About Harley, I think they are sound bikes with a lousy aesthetic: too much 'glamour' for my taste, and I am not a fan of loud noise either (except for racing engines)

But all tastes are good: if women would like only handsome men, I would never had f***ed once in my life... (at least free of charge)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 13, 2006)

Parmigiano said:


> But all tastes are good: if women would like only handsome men, I would never had f***ed once in my life... (at least free of charge)


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## Gnomey (Jan 13, 2006)




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## Clave (Jan 13, 2006)

Harleys look good but usually shake themselves apart after a while

BMWs are awesome but somehow lack soul

Ducatis also awesome and beautiful to look at but are as hard as rock to ride

Hondas are solid but dull, with the exception of the Fireblade and the like

Yamahas are fast and kinda fragile

Suzukis are strong but not that fast - with some exceptions

Kawasakis are fast and tough but also a bit ugly

Triumphs look brutal but I guess that's ok

Righto - flame away with your dissagreements


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 13, 2006)

Hard ride? If you ask me a hard ride makes you more involved and part of the experience...Being uncomfortable makes me feel comfortable


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## Parmigiano (Jan 13, 2006)

Well CC, try to ride a Ducati (or one of those HD with seating that make your back stay vertical) for 6-7 hours and then you'll let me know about the joy of ride...
I saw people so exhausted and with such a backache that they had vision of Jesus and the Virgin Mary riding a chopper in the Motel backyard.

Ducati (and all sport bikes) gives you great and violent emotions, but if you bend 75 degrees you can't pretend to also have soft dumpers...

Ride it a couple of hours and it's great fun, go in vacation fully loaded and the transfer route will become a nightmare after 300km!


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 13, 2006)

I wouldnt go vacation on a bike though!


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## Parmigiano (Jan 13, 2006)

Well, if you accept to bring only the basics and to be soaked from time to time it is great.

I did Normandy, Bretagne, Sicily, Sardinia and Corse and was a great fun.


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## Clave (Jan 13, 2006)

Me and my sister did a camping trip by motorcycle a few years back, starting off in Norfolk, England then across to Holland by ferry and we rode through Belgium, Germany, Luxemburg, France, Leichtenstien, Switzerland, Austria and Italy, then came back mostly through France.

I did all the 'piloting' as my sis didn't have a licence, and it was quite tiring as we did all that in one week. But the bike was well behaved, even loaded up, I raced a Ferrari in Italy, until sis got panicky and hit me  

It was an excellent trip, the only downside was the pre-Euro currency changes - we had pockets full of coins - German Marks, French Francs, Austrian Schillings, Italian Lira etc. etc. we must have done an exchange nearly every day  

Two things stand out even now:

The Swiss have the best camp sites in the World 8) 

Mountain passes may look nice, but hairpin bends are hellish to get round on a bike.... 

Oh and the bike? a Suzuki GSX600f - RIP my friend - burnt to death by an obnoxious scumbag, but that's another story...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 14, 2006)

Actually I find those Choppers like a HD much more confortable over a long period of time rather than those Croch Rockets that you neal and lay down on. The HD is build for comfort, never had a problem with back pains or exhaustion.


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## R-2800 (Dec 19, 2006)

old thread but whatever........


1971 VW bug, Clemintine orange first car  got it when i was 14
1973 Superbeetle Turd Brown, sitting in a field 6 years but floors are solid!! go figure!, with Factory A/C. both projects, don't have license yet but still love them!


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## Matt308 (Dec 19, 2006)

Me - 1995 Ford F150 4x4 with only 65k on it
Wifey - 2000 Toyota Sienna Minivan with same

Don't ask


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 19, 2006)

Alrighty then, I won't. 
I drive a 2000 Grand Am. I just had the transmission line replaced, and all is well. 

Well, except for the bill that is. Merry Christmas to me.


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## R-2800 (Dec 19, 2006)

yeah bet that was a pretty penny


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## mkloby (Dec 19, 2006)

I drive a 2006 Ford Fusion w/ a 351W with a custom... ah hell it's just a family sedan who am I kidding...


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## Matt308 (Dec 19, 2006)

But is it paid fo'?


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## twoeagles (Dec 20, 2006)

1989 Isuzu Trooper, 200K miles; 2001 Passat (love - hate relationship);
2006 4 door Civic (so my daughter could drive - she was unable to
conquer the stick in the Passat)...Oops, the Navy Federal Credit Union owns
the Civic, not me...But, it is a pretty decent little auto, I must admit.


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## Matt308 (Dec 20, 2006)

Can't beat those Civics.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 20, 2006)

Still driving my 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee with a V8 Engine. I love the damn thing, except that it is a gas guzzler.

As soon as I finally get back into the aviation business my wife has finally given me permission though to buy a new Grand Cherokee.


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## Matt308 (Dec 20, 2006)

Permission is such an ugly word. Lets just say she "agrees" with you regarding your new purchase.


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## Erich (Dec 20, 2006)

what, no Porsche Chris ? I drive a 1 Ton Chevy flat bed 1971 old fogey crate

wife drives a 2004 Pontiac Vibe


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 20, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> Permission is such an ugly word. Lets just say she "agrees" with you regarding your new purchase.



No....She gave me permission...


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## Matt308 (Dec 20, 2006)

I love a man who's honest.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 20, 2006)

Erich said:


> what, no Porsche Chris ? I drive a 1 Ton Chevy flat bed 1971 old fogey crate
> 
> wife drives a 2004 Pontiac Vibe



I would never pay money for something like a Porsche...ever...

Dont take me wrong they are good quality sports cars, but where outside of Europe will you ever get to really try that thing out...

I like cars that have a usefullness to them.


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## Erich (Dec 20, 2006)

obviously not a very tried and true vehicle for the winter snows, nor is the BMW coupes and Mercedes sub types. I'll take a 4 x 4 any day of the year if at all possible though my overweight lug ton does a decent job in all it's ugliness

woe unto any sport rod coming in my direction !


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## Matt308 (Dec 20, 2006)

Enjoy that vehicle while you can Erich. The tree huggers are going to ban them because in a car crash scenario with a 400lb Yugo, your 1-ton for some reason wins every time. And well that's not right. The only obvious solution is everyone must be forced to drive 400lb Yugos. Your just selfish with your well being and they just won't stand for that.


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## Erich (Dec 20, 2006)

let them come !

I've had BMW's rear end me driving too close, and I ain't going fast in this overgrown beast. I win every time as you have pointed out

time for some Lebkuchen


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## Matt308 (Dec 20, 2006)




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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 20, 2006)

I had this chick in a Ford Mondeyo drive right into the back of Jeep at a red light. Dented her whole front end in, tore up her engine and she had to be towed away. What happened to my Jeep...

...Not a scratch!!!


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 20, 2006)

Generally, the vehicle that does the ramming gets the sh*ttier end of the deal as far as damage goes. Front end damage is the worst. An old woman cut me off once, and I ended up breaking her tail light and slightly denting her bumper. Meanwhile, my old Nissan truck had a nice big 'ole crumpled left fender. Sweet. 

At least my insurance rates didn't go up. It was her bloody fault.


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## mkloby (Dec 20, 2006)

I had an 04 wrangler w/ a steel rear bumper - had some lady back into me - cracked her rear bumper and all i had to do was flick her paint off my bumper. I was quite pleased.


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## Stuka-Pilot 44 (Dec 20, 2006)

This is my Sunday auto....85k miles...(in July 1985 - cost was $16,545.)
The great gas miles comes from 5-in-line-cylinders.
No major repairs...only wiper blades, oil/and filter, brake pads, timing belt-at 60k.
The German's build them great.


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## Erich (Dec 20, 2006)

my bug ugly truck has had the whole outside bed and rear end done over in 2-4 inches of steel ream and plate many a moon ago and with the rear end slightly higher than the front, besides my way cool look down the road and small low riders that hit me spells the death knell of all. I've probably had at least 6-8 incidences with each time the goof offs hitting me not watching what they were doing, one guy, and I will shorten this up, stole a classic Mustang one eve an came around a corner in slightly foggy weather and decided to rip the right side of car from nose to tail, i watched the whole mass come clean off like opening a tuna can with a can opener, it flayed that sucker of a car, tore out the radiator in part and the fool tried to jam it around the next corner and roads up north ......... I was laughing my head off as the police just followed the trail of coolant on the road to the scoundrels home. it just flicked a bit of black paint off the steel plates on the left side of my truck.

I do wonder about people sometime


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## R-2800 (Dec 20, 2006)

> Still gets 32mpg on highway - not sad for a 1985!
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...




Can't beat German engineering


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## pbfoot (Dec 20, 2006)

R-2800 said:


> Can't beat German engineering


sure you can Japanese cars are miles better ask anyone who drives one


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## R-2800 (Dec 20, 2006)

well there real good to probly same level as a German car but German cars are safer i think and would prefer a German car, it all depends on the person, but hey for me if has 4 wheels and won't break down every 2 miles fine with me!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 20, 2006)

Jeep and then Mercedes. The best there is.


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## mkloby (Dec 20, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> sure you can Japanese cars are miles better ask anyone who drives one



I think all new cars are very reliable - it's just a matter of personal preference and specific options you want in your vehicle. I've never had anything go wrong w/ any of my newer American cars, or my wife's japanese car.


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## davparlr (Dec 20, 2006)

mkloby said:


> I think all new cars are very reliable - it's just a matter of personal preference and specific options you want in your vehicle. I've never had anything go wrong w/ any of my newer American cars, or my wife's japanese car.



I was watching autoline detroit and the emcee said that the car with the worst reliability today is better than the car with the best reliability ten years ago.



> DerAdlerIstGelandet-
> Jeep and then Mercedes. The best there is.




I learned to drive in a 1947 Jeep-civilian version. What a wonderful vehicle. Goes anywhere (although I do remember digging it out of a Florida swamp where sank up to the body), but not very quickly. Use to run sand dunes on Perdido Key before there were back-to-back condos. My older brother got it when he got his license, I got a 1954 Ford four door. Talking about the opposite ends of cool!

Mercedes reliability reputation has been hit hard lately. I think they are working hard to improve it. Overall, European car reliability has been slipping down a bit. You have to note my first comment on reliability above, however. Some American makes have been making great strides. Buick has been right up there nudging Lexus for the top spot in reliability. I drove a rented Ponitiac G6 a month or so ago. First GM car I was impressed with in 30 years.

My selection of greatest American traitors? American auto maker CEOs and Directors and Labor leaders of the 1970s and 80s. In the 70s GM had almost 60% of the American market. Now they are what, 28%. All due to incompetence, greed and feather bedding. In the 70s, Olds Cutlass was the no. 1 selling car in America. Now they don't even exist! Amazing collapse. I'll bet all those Directors and CEOs that allowed this to happen have a really nice retirement because of selling the future to boost stock prices. I used to be a big Olds fan, now I drive Hyundais (made in America). Not because I want to be, but in the 70s the American cars were junk and they seem uninspired since.


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## 102first_hussars (Dec 20, 2006)

> Originally Posted by pbfoot
> sure you can Japanese cars are miles better ask anyone who drives one



Well i drive a '95 Acura Integra which is basically a Honda, i can go a week and a half on a tank of gas its a good car, i kept it nice and pretty too


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## pbfoot (Dec 20, 2006)

Must agree with you American cars were the best up until the early 70's and labour and management dragged them down by not paying heed to the competition from the Japan who showed everyone how a car is made. I live in a automotive area with GM having engine and drive train plants here and watched as they laughed (employees and management) at the rice burners stating that they would not last with north american driving conditions and they would be like european imports hard to get parts for and unreliable


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## Matt308 (Dec 20, 2006)

American cars have come about. 20 years ago, I would have agreed with you. Today, car quality between Japan and US is marginal at best. Japan leading perhaps, but the difference is now in shades of gray as opposed to black and white. America finally woke up that that quality and a car that runs 150k is expected...no longer the exception.


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## davparlr (Dec 20, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> American cars have come about. 20 years ago, I would have agreed with you. Today, car quality between Japan and US is marginal at best. Japan leading perhaps, but the difference is now in shades of gray as opposed to black and white. America finally woke up that that quality and a car that runs 150k is expected...no longer the exception.



As you say, they started turning the corner about 85 (my 83 skyhawk was the same old junk). Not until recently has GM generated some exciting cars (not including the Vette and Cadillac, who have been doing a good job). Ford and Chrysler have both built some interesting cars (I had a 1999 Chrysler that was a good car). I hope they can continue to recover. The increase in warrantee has helped, it certainly helped Hyundai to turn around perception.


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## Matt308 (Dec 20, 2006)

I think that comparison to cars today is like asking your wife what shade of white she wants on the wall. Its so close that you could flip a coin and not be disappointed. Competition is key.

For confirmation, in AvWeek this week, the Boeing CFO specifically stated that Airbus' health is integral to Boeing and their customers health. Competion breeds innovation.

God I love capitalism.


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## Glider (Dec 20, 2006)

My only experience of American cars is driving hire cars when on Holiday when we were given a Trans Am and it was awfull. The basic design was shot full of holes and the finish deplorable.
I don't know what the view is of the Trans Am in the USA, but I hope it is seen as a bad car not a good one.
The second car we drove was a Chrysler Neon which in the USA was a huge improvement but is seen in the UK as a poor car. I test drove one in the UK and wouldn't dream of buying one but compared to the Trans Am it was a pearl.


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## Matt308 (Dec 21, 2006)

They don't make TAs any more. Same for Neons.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 21, 2006)

Ah a Neon. We had one in college and it sucked! It worked great all the time except when were really really wanted to go somewhere, like Woodstock 1999. Damn thing broke down and we never made it!!!!


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## Matt308 (Dec 21, 2006)

Just read in the paper that the crash tests have come in for the "minis", cars 2500lbs and under. NOT GOOD. These include Minicooper, Yaris, Varig and Scion. Simple law of physics people. When two masses collide and one mass is 60% greater than the other, Newtonian physics rule.


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## loomaluftwaffe (Dec 21, 2006)

I dont drive  yet


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## pbfoot (Dec 21, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> Just read in the paper that the crash tests have come in for the "minis", cars 2500lbs and under. NOT GOOD. These include Minicooper, Yaris, Varig and Scion. Simple law of physics people. When two masses collide and one mass is 60% greater than the other, Newtonian physics rule.


I disagree with a smaller vehicle I am a much smaller and more agile target able to dodge the land yachts captained by cell phone talking blue haired women


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## mkloby (Dec 21, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> I disagree with a smaller vehicle I am a much smaller and more agile target able to dodge the land yachts captained by cell phone talking blue haired women



That won't help you when Laverne creams you from behind when you're stopped at a stoplight! She'll get you sooner or later. You can run but you can't hide!

My wife has the 06 Scion tC... not bad crash ratings. 5 star driver front and all 4's for the rest. Sometimes cars, like the Mazda 6 (probably tips the scales at 3000 or so), may be bigger but fair poorly in crashes.


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## Matt308 (Dec 22, 2006)

mkloby, not sure what your ratings are from, probably gov't. These tests that I quoted were from a non-profit group that was sponsored by the insurance companies...for what that's worth. They claimed Scion was "adequate" for frontal and "poor" from side. Don't know what the scoring parameters were though. I must assume passenger injury and not damage.

You have a kiddo on the way. You'll need a bigger car for you, wifey, kid, car seat, diapers, crib, stroller, baby wipes, jarred stuff of different colors that baby eats, spoons, binky(s), rattles, mindless books that contain rhymes whose merits are a crime to humanity, sacks for the baby feces, extra changes of clothes for those that become soiled with aforementioned excrement, baby powder, wipes to clean up too liberal doses of baby powder, baby hats and blankets for when the temperature is slighly below that of the womb, breast pump, extra bags for breast pump contents, cooler for breast milk, antibiotics for wifey's breast infection, baby formula since wifey is consuming antibiotics she can no longer feed, a hidden beer to consume when wifey complains that her tits are full and hurt due to her taking antibiotics and can't feed nor use breast pump but they look hot as hell, batteries for breast pump, anti-bacterial gel for post arse-wipes and a small pocket to contain your sanity. Don't worry about your balls, they will be in her handbag.


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## Matt308 (Dec 22, 2006)

Oh. And I don't know if all that is true. A loser buddy of mine told that stuff.


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## mkloby (Dec 22, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> Oh. And I don't know if all that is true. A loser buddy of mine told that stuff.



Haha - thanks for the heads-up  Yes it was the gov't crash ratings. Oh do not worry - my baby is not going in the Scion, it's unfortunately becoming my car after he/she is born. It's a pretty feminine car, but whatever.

Which model scion were you speaking of? They have a couple really tiny shoeboxes that look like they'd lose in a collision w/ a bicyclist.


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## davparlr (Dec 22, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> I disagree with a smaller vehicle I am a much smaller and more agile target able to dodge the land yachts captained by cell phone talking blue haired women



If that was true, all of the small, agile cars would have fewer accidents. I suspect that this does not statistically hold up. Most accidents occur when you don't have reflex time to respond. Manueverability has little to do with it.


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## Matt308 (Dec 22, 2006)

mkloby said:


> Haha - thanks for the heads-up  Yes it was the gov't crash ratings. Oh do not worry - my baby is not going in the Scion, it's unfortunately becoming my car after he/she is born. It's a pretty feminine car, but whatever.
> 
> Which model scion were you speaking of? They have a couple really tiny shoeboxes that look like they'd lose in a collision w/ a bicyclist.



You know I don't know which one they were referring too. I have a hard keeping up with cars nowadays. They used to have individual names like shadow, cougar and such. Now they are Scion EXP2, ATX, MPX and dashes like model numbers. You almost have to be a techie to remember them all.


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## mkloby (Dec 22, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> You know I don't know which one they were referring too. I have a hard keeping up with cars nowadays. They used to have individual names like shadow, cougar and such. Now they are Scion EXP2, ATX, MPX and dashes like model numbers. You almost have to be a techie to remember them all.



Germans have been naming cars by letters and digits for ages! Bet you can name some Porsche and Mercedes models going back...


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## Matt308 (Dec 22, 2006)

911 But that's a Carrera. I know the 300 series. The 500 series. The 700 series. but other than the 911, I honestly don't know them!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 23, 2006)

Mercedes
A230
A330
C220
C320
E220
E320
S200
S300
S500
SLK 230
SLK 330 (my dads new car, I cant wait to drive it tomorrow when I go home for the hollidays with my wife) Too bad I cant put the top down.

Okay that is how I think the numbers go, not sure though.


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## Parmigiano (Dec 23, 2006)

'Carrera' is the Porsche definition of 'body without roof', something in between a coupe' and a spider.

911 is always 911, they keep track of the different series with another numeric code (the current production is 997). Then you have the Carrera, spider, turbo etc. as different variants.

And the 911 is one of the last remaining mythical cars...


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## mkloby (Dec 23, 2006)

Parmigiano said:


> And the 911 is one of the last remaining mythical cars...



Mythical in it's pricetag! I drove a Porsche Boxster S once - I was impressed. I can only imagine how much sweeter a 911 would be...


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 23, 2006)

Parmigiano said:


> 'Carrera' is the Porsche definition of 'body without roof', something in between a coupe' and a spider.



Nope, thats the Targa you're thinking of...You can get Carrera 2's and Carrera 4's in all body shapes...


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## Parmigiano (Dec 24, 2006)

You're right Cheddar


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## Matt308 (Dec 25, 2006)

{eyes glazed over, thinking about naked women now...}


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## Parmigiano (Dec 25, 2006)

OK, OK, I've confused the Carrera and the Targa, the Alzheimer is always a threat at my old age... 

Anyway, the 'Carrera' was introduced in the early 1970 as the sporty version of the 911, replaced in 1975 by the SC (the sporty model by then was the 'turbo') and reintroduced in the mid 80 to identify some of the non-turbo models.
I'm not sure if the 996 series (the 'traitor' model, i.e. the one who abandoned the air cooled 6-boxer for water cooling) had a Carrera version, but the name is back with the 997, now identifying the standard version.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 25, 2006)

Got to drive my dads Mercedes SLK today. That was pretty sweet.


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 25, 2006)

Nice...

The 996 did have Carrera versions...I didnt like the 996, mainly because the headlights were wrong...In fact, I dont really like any 911's.


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## Matt308 (Dec 26, 2006)

Oh Lord what have I started...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 26, 2006)

if CC's talking about the tractor the David Brown 996 then he has a point, it's a neat little tractor, so then who can tell me the difference betweena David Brown 995 and 996?


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## Matt308 (Dec 26, 2006)

Okay I admit it. I do want to know what the difference is.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 26, 2006)

you're really really sure about this? you're not pulling my leg are you matty?


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## Henk (Dec 26, 2006)

I drive a Green 1995 VW Caddy 1600 or like other guys know it as, a pick-up.


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## R-2800 (Dec 26, 2006)

V-DUB!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 27, 2006)

Henk said:


> I drive a Green 1995 VW Caddy 1600 or like other guys know it as, a pick-up.



That aint a pick up! You can put a plastic bag in the back thats how small it is. You want a real pick up you need a Dakota, Ram or Silverado.


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## Matt308 (Dec 27, 2006)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> you're really really sure about this? you're not pulling my leg are you matty?



Yup. I actually do.


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 27, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> That aint a pick up! You can put a plastic bag in the back thats how small it is. You want a real pick up you need a Dakota, Ram or Silverado.



They arent real pick-ups, theyre poorly made and dont really comply to any safety laws 

Only one pick-up worth having if any IMO, Toyota Hilux.


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## mkloby (Dec 27, 2006)

I'm a big fan of F Series... I can't stand non-American pickups. At least the japanese pickups have V-8s in them now... I agree w/ you Chris, what's the point of a pickup if it can't haul anything but a box of chocolates!


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## pbfoot (Dec 27, 2006)

cheddar cheese said:


> They arent real pick-ups, theyre poorly made and dont really comply to any safety laws
> 
> Only one pick-up worth having if any IMO, Toyota Hilux.


100% correct the best vehicle ever made . My 1984 hilux had equivalent capabilities of of 1984 F150 with a payoad of 1600lbs and 5000lb towing . Broke the tailgate in the hilux when I loaded a 1 ton roller in the back . The only complaint about the box was you couldn't lay down a 4x8 sheet of plywood or such


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 28, 2006)

cheddar cheese said:


> They arent real pick-ups, theyre poorly made and dont really comply to any safety laws
> 
> Only one pick-up worth having if any IMO, Toyota Hilux.



What are you talking about Silverados, Rams, Dakotas and F-150 Series Pick Up Trucks are the best made there are.

Your just jealous that the parking spaces in England are to small to park one of these big as trucks.

Dont worry though Lanc the parking spots here in Germany are pretty small too. I have a hard time sometimes parking my Jeep.


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 28, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> What are you talking about Silverados, Rams, Dakotas and F-150 Series Pick Up Trucks are the best made there are.
> 
> Your just jealous that the parking spaces in England are to small to park one of these big as trucks.



Haha, haha, ha, oh...  They may be machanically sound but the build quality is low-rent and they have very similar interiors to my 1994 Citroen AX  A Toyota, Nissan or Mitsubish picjk up is much better...Why would you need a massive V8 in a pick-up? They just dont make sense and for practical tools you can do much better....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 28, 2006)

You obviously have not actually driven one then.


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 28, 2006)

Nope because im only 17 and my driving experience is limited to a few vehicles, but I can imagine how it would be...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 28, 2006)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 28, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> Yup. I actually do.



Well in that case  One has a separate hand clutch for the PTO and can be engaged idependantly of the transmission's gear through an independant ratio selection lever, the other's PTO is engaged through the gearbox clutch, now can you guess which is which?



> Dont worry though Lanc the parking spots here in Germany are pretty small too



oh thank God, no more loosing sleep over the size of parking spaces in Germany 

and i can't stand big pick ups, in particular the American ones i mean christ what's the point in them? they're strong but only because it took an entire year's output from a steel factory to make them when Europeans actually design them to be structurally strong, not relying on using the girders from demolished sky-scrapers! and just what do you guys use yours to move? I say you'd notice absolutely no difference using something like a tried and tested Land Rover, the design hasn't been around since the 50s for no reason! roughly 85% of all land rovers ever made are still running so there're no reliability issues there, and that's without being made out of a steel foundry! i propose there's little to no roles you guys in your massive jeeps can do that a Land Rover can't.........


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## Henk (Dec 28, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> That aint a pick up! You can put a plastic bag in the back thats how small it is. You want a real pick up you need a Dakota, Ram or Silverado.



Adler that what you are talking about is one uge thing you move heavy stuff with, but we call it here a bakkie the one I drive. It is not that bad, it has a nice long back that when you have lady friend with it has enough space and if you are very drunk you can take a nice nap.


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## Matt308 (Dec 28, 2006)

Something has to move our fat asses around, Lanc. Full size pickups rule!! And if you have never driven one, I find your comments specious.


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## Henk (Dec 28, 2006)

Pickups are nice, but just to big for in town driving here, not a lot of space here.


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## mkloby (Dec 29, 2006)

cheddar cheese said:


> Haha, haha, ha, oh...  They may be machanically sound but the build quality is low-rent and they have very similar interiors to my 1994 Citroen AX  A Toyota, Nissan or Mitsubish picjk up is much better...Why would you need a massive V8 in a pick-up? They just dont make sense and for practical tools you can do much better....



You need a V-8 or nice turbo-diesel so you can tow things... many many things...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 29, 2006)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> and i can't stand big pick ups, in particular the American ones i mean christ what's the point in them? they're strong but only because it took an entire year's output from a steel factory to make them when Europeans actually design them to be structurally strong, not relying on using the girders from demolished sky-scrapers! and just what do you guys use yours to move? I say you'd notice absolutely no difference using something like a tried and tested Land Rover, the design hasn't been around since the 50s for no reason! roughly 85% of all land rovers ever made are still running so there're no reliability issues there, and that's without being made out of a steel foundry! i propose there's little to no roles you guys in your massive jeeps can do that a Land Rover can't.........



People in the states us them to haul things around on there land such as farms and stuff. They are very usefull if you have the need for one. I dont have the need for one, so I would not buy one. I am happy owning Jeeps.

Oh and Jeep does not make Pick Ups. 

And I guarantee you that I could out perform your Land Rover with my V8 Grand Cherokee and haul more stuff with it two.

Oh and just one other thing. The full size Rams, Silverados, and F Series trucks could almost haul around a Landrover in the bed of the truck, thats what the use is, to haul big heavy ****.


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## mkloby (Dec 29, 2006)

Lanc, I picked up a 250lb dresser the other day w/ the pickup - no removing seats or playing any of those suv games. That's a perfect use for a full-size pickup, ain't it?


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## Glider (Dec 29, 2006)

In Lancs defence over here I have only ever seen one with something in the back, nearly passed out in shock. Most are polished and never, ever get dirty.
I would also suggest that you don't underestimate the ability of the Landrover. There is nowhere on earth where these machines are not used and their simplicity is the key. Also more armed forces (including, I believe the USA) use them than any other 4X4.


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## Matt308 (Dec 29, 2006)

I'm gonna have to side with Glider regarding the Range Rover. Not many places that beast won't go. But you pay for the capability. While you are still making payments, Adler will own 2 or 3 Grand Cherokees.


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## mkloby (Dec 29, 2006)

Glider said:


> In Lancs defence over here I have only ever seen one with something in the back, nearly passed out in shock. Most are polished and never, ever get dirty.
> I would also suggest that you don't underestimate the ability of the Landrover. There is nowhere on earth where these machines are not used and their simplicity is the key. Also more armed forces (including, I believe the USA) use them than any other 4X4.



I have never seen a rover in the USMC...

However, they do enjoy a hell of a reputation here as well regarding their capabilities... matt is right though, you pay a hefty fee for it.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 29, 2006)

Glider said:


> In Lancs defence over here I have only ever seen one with something in the back, nearly passed out in shock. Most are polished and never, ever get dirty.
> I would also suggest that you don't underestimate the ability of the Landrover. There is nowhere on earth where these machines are not used and their simplicity is the key. Also more armed forces (including, I believe the USA) use them than any other 4X4.



Jeep Grand Cherokee is actually more capable than the Land Rover. I am not saying the Land Rover is a bad SUV though. I love Land Rovers but I would never take a Land Rover over a Jeep any day.

I will post the stats for you tomorrow with the links that shows the comparisons. They tested the Jeep Grand Cherokees and the Jeep Commander vs. 3 types of Land Rovers and while the Land Rovers had a few advantages of the Jeeps the Jeeps actually won the comparisons because the Jeep had more Trunk Space, More Engine Power, More Towing Power, climbed a higher grade of incline, crossed a deeper river and made it over the most rockey terrain. The Jeeps also sped up faster and handled slightly (only ever so slightly) better than the Land Rovers. The Jeeps were also a lot cheaper in price tag than the Land Rovers.

The 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee also took first place in almost all the major events.


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## plan_D (Dec 30, 2006)

Funny 'cos last time we had a flash flood here, we had about 9 cars pull into our road with stalled out engines. Three of 'em were Land Rovers!


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 30, 2006)

That would be because theyre petrol then...

A Land Rover Defender with a TD5 engine will go more places than any other 4x4. A Cherokee is better all-round, because theyre more luxurious where as Defenders are quite agricultural...I'd have a Discovery or a Range Rover if I wanted an upmarket SUV though, and although the Grand Cherokee is a great SUV, its second to the Range Rover IMO. Always will be because of the image thing. A Defender will have anything off road though.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 30, 2006)

plan_D said:


> Funny 'cos last time we had a flash flood here, we had about 9 cars pull into our road with stalled out engines. Three of 'em were Land Rovers!



Land Rovers are good vehicals but Jeep has perfected it and you get the most for your money at an affordable price.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 30, 2006)

cheddar cheese said:


> That would be because theyre petrol then...
> 
> A Land Rover Defender with a TD5 engine will go more places than any other 4x4. A Cherokee is better all-round, because theyre more luxurious where as Defenders are quite agricultural...I'd have a Discovery or a Range Rover if I wanted an upmarket SUV though, and although the Grand Cherokee is a great SUV, its second to the Range Rover IMO. Always will be because of the image thing. A Defender will have anything off road though.



Sorry but the Grand Cherokee went more places and performed better up hill, off road and through water than the Range Rover. I dont actually have time to post the info right now because I am actually still packing for our trip tomorrow but I promise to post the facts and I will do it fair and post the info where the Range Rover was better, but the Jeep beat out the Range Rover in the most important events and came out on top overall.


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## Matt308 (Dec 30, 2006)

Hummer H1. Not the mamby-pamby H2 or H3. That beast will eat Defenders for lunch.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 30, 2006)

> People in the states us them to haul things around on there land such as farms and stuff



yes and every single farmer over here owns a defender, and none will give them up, we bought ours second had 20 years ago and she still passes her MOT every year, and there're plenty out there that're older............



> And I guarantee you that I could out perform your Land Rover with my V8 Grand Cherokee and haul more stuff with it two.



go have a look around at where Land Rovers are used, and what they're used for, they've been in production almost unchanged for coming up to 60 years, and for a damn good reason, bring on your steel foundry, the Land Rover will beat it and it currently beating it on every continent on earth, and RE the price, American vehicles over here are more expensive than Land Rovers, does your info take into account import costs? Over here you don't have to look far for a roadworthy defender for a few hundred pounds........



> thats what the use is, to haul big heavy ****



No, that's what trailers are for, just how often do most owners actually have to move heavy stuff? I'm with Glider and i'll wager almost never, then, for the rest of the time you have to haul around those massive beasts? and for what gain? what do they do when not hauling heavy stuff? those stupidly large monsters under the "hoods" guzzle a hole in your pocket, it's only because fuel's so cheap in America that most people can afford them, i've seen 1 ton hay bales on the back of Land Rovers and they handled it no problem, i'm not saying the American pickups can't, i'm just saying Land Rovers can so don't think they can't...........



> I picked up a 250lb dresser the other day w/ the pickup - no removing seats or playing any of those suv games. That's a perfect use for a full-size pickup, ain't it?



I'm begging you not to tell me you think that's big or heavy! and the Defender isn't a SUV, they're what stupid people in Chelsea drive to drop their kids off at private school............



> However, they do enjoy a hell of a reputation here as well regarding their capabilities... matt is right though, you pay a hefty fee for it.



For a range rover perhaps but we're talking Defenders, over 15,000 are used by the Army even the SAS use them........


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 30, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> Hummer H1. Not the mamby-pamby H2 or H3. That beast will eat Defenders for lunch.



note the subtle differences between the two though

1) driving the Defender isn't the sole reason for the rise in the Earth's temperature through global warming 

2) it's possible to drive a defender on the road and fit it in a parking space


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## mkloby (Dec 30, 2006)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> I'm begging you not to tell me you think that's big or heavy! and the Defender isn't a SUV, they're what stupid people in Chelsea drive to drop their kids off at private school...........



Dude - it ain't heavy - but the VOLUME it took up was quite large... Mr Britain rules all  But seriously - my point WAS that you can toss that thing in the bed - takes 5 seconds. You can't do that in the rover! No taking seats out and monkeying around w/ crap to make more cargo space. And the defender is what would be classified as a sport ute, at least here in america (which I don't think they import them here as I've never seen one)... unless there's an invisible bed on the back of it that Americans are not able to see. I do understand your point regarding the big trucks - but my friend, there are many people that use the heck out of those things on a daily basis and do things w/ them that the rover just can't do.... sorry.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 31, 2006)

yes and we use our defender all the time over here, ours isn't even an open back but i can't see any use for a pick up that a Defender can't do!

no "flat bed"? There are hundreds of variations you can get Defenders in- literally! here's the 110 Double cab







and single cab, sorry the picture's so small, note also the snorkel, you can submerge her up to the level of the snorkel and she'll run like a dream






and the 130, this's the double cab but imagine the single cabs (which i can't find a picture of), that's a LOT of room with the added advantage of being able to cover it with a soft or hard top, an ability many pick ups lack.........


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## mkloby (Dec 31, 2006)

Ok thanks for the pics. I can tell you this though - that dresser would definitely NOT fit in that teeny bed on the 110... that's not exactly a real pickup bed. I'm trying to imagine the 130 w/ a larger bed. How many feet is the bed? THat seems definitely more practical than the 110.

Ok lanc, I'm buying more into your usefulness of the defender a little bit here, surprise surprise. Although, I haven't seen a single pickup that you can't get a hardtop bed cover, I'm not sure about soft tops though.


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## Glider (Dec 31, 2006)

mkloby said:


> I have never seen a rover in the USMC...
> 
> However, they do enjoy a hell of a reputation here as well regarding their capabilities... matt is right though, you pay a hefty fee for it.



The US rangers currently use a vehicle based on the 110 version of the Landrover. One advantage being that it fits into the helicopter whereas the US based version had problems in this area.


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## Glider (Dec 31, 2006)

Found this which adds more detail.

Each Ranger Battalion possesses 12 Ranger Special Operations Vehicles (RSOVs) for its airfield seizure mission. The vehicle is a modified Land Rover. Each vehicle carriers a six or seven-man crew. Normally, each vehicle mounts an M240G MG and either a MK-19 Grenade Launcher or a M2, .50 cal MG. One of the passengers mans an anti-armor weapon (RAAWS, AT-4, LAW, and Javelin). The main purpose of the vehicle is to provide the operation force with a mobile, lethal defensive capability.


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## Matt308 (Dec 31, 2006)

The Defender IS a neat little vehicle. Hell don't they still make them with a universal transmission to allow one to hook up tractor attachments to it at the front of the vehicle? I think they introduced a refined version under the Defender moniker in the US on a larger scale a couple of years ago as a cheaper alternative to the very expensive Land Rover. However, I still think they are going for $40k+ US. Adler and his jeep are going to be all over that price range. Wonder what a Jeep goes for in the UK?


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## mkloby (Dec 31, 2006)

Glider said:


> Found this which adds more detail.
> 
> Each Ranger Battalion possesses 12 Ranger Special Operations Vehicles (RSOVs) for its airfield seizure mission. The vehicle is a modified Land Rover. Each vehicle carriers a six or seven-man crew. Normally, each vehicle mounts an M240G MG and either a MK-19 Grenade Launcher or a M2, .50 cal MG. One of the passengers mans an anti-armor weapon (RAAWS, AT-4, LAW, and Javelin). The main purpose of the vehicle is to provide the operation force with a mobile, lethal defensive capability.



Good info. I have no idea the types of equip that Army uses other than what I've personally seen. Again - I've never seen on in the Marines. We are developing the ITV (internally transportable vehicle) built by American Growler of Florida, which is easily helo transportable and will include high-mobility weapons platform and comm versions. Here's a pic of the new piece of gear ala HQMC.


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## Matt308 (Dec 31, 2006)

Dang. Obviously different mission parameters from HUMMV in middle east. Either that or we aren't learning diddly.


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## mkloby (Dec 31, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> Dang. Obviously different mission parameters from HUMMV in middle east. Either that or we aren't learning diddly.



Well if you mean heavily armed and armored mounted patrols or CAA(combined anti-armor) patrols, like what we are conducting in Iraq - no that definitely will not be this guy's mission. Think more along the lines of Force Recon or MARSOC...


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## Matt308 (Dec 31, 2006)

Does look cool. Is this a congressional approved procurement? Or just a response to a Marine "request for proposal"?


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## mkloby (Dec 31, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> Does look cool. Is this a congressional approved procurement? Or just a response to a Marine "request for proposal"?



It's been in testing for over a year w/ the Marines. I believe it's a secured project, unlike the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle... although MV-22 has top development priority right now. Ospreys will be able to tote these as well as CH-53s.


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## Matt308 (Dec 31, 2006)

Made in FL, huh. It does have that "swamp buggy" look to it.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 31, 2006)

> How many feet is the bed?



i'll work it out tomorrow



> Each Ranger Battalion possesses 12 Ranger Special Operations Vehicles (RSOVs) for its airfield seizure mission. The vehicle is a modified Land Rover. Each vehicle carriers a six or seven-man crew. Normally, each vehicle mounts an M240G MG and either a MK-19 Grenade Launcher or a M2, .50 cal MG. One of the passengers mans an anti-armor weapon (RAAWS, AT-4, LAW, and Javelin). The main purpose of the vehicle is to provide the operation force with a mobile, lethal defensive capability.



that's just one of hundreds of versions/variations on the Defender, Land Rover, that's Land Rover not any other organisation modifying it, even make fully armered patrol version, full armor plat all over, it's a beast! the thing is that all across the range everything's so spartan and universal parts can be readily changed, to the back of the first cab they're pretty much all the same! 



> Hell don't they still make them with a universal transmission to allow one to hook up tractor attachments to it at the front of the vehicle?



they've been all but unchanged for 50 odd years, yes you can mount things on the front or go all out and get full hydraulic linkage plus PTO on the rear! for those not in the know that's exactily the same as what tractors have on the back of them! obviously not capable of taking full size impliments but usefull none the less, that PTO can power almost anything.......



> I still think they are going for $40k+ US



you have GOT to be kidding me, no wonder you guys thought they were expensive, a really top quality second hand defender that will last a lot longer than you will will set you back on a few thousand £, although i can't speak for a new one...........


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## Matt308 (Dec 31, 2006)

Oh well Lanc. I bet the Jeep is outrageous in your parts too. Import taxes, little demand, infrastructure, parts. Not enough to mitigate those non-recurring costs.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 31, 2006)

exactily what i was saying before, everything in America is so cheap anything that has to be imported looks like big $..........


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## Glider (Dec 31, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> Does look cool. Is this a congressional approved procurement? Or just a response to a Marine "request for proposal"?



Looks like a recycled WW2 Jeep to me.

List price of a 
Cherokee Jeep starts without extras at £19,935 which I think is around $36,000
Grand Cherokee Jeep starts at £28,500 which is around $52,000.
Land Rover Defenders start at £20,000 in the UK around $37,000

Cars are pricy over here


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## Matt308 (Dec 31, 2006)

F it. Buy a mule. God I hate cars.


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## mkloby (Jan 1, 2007)

Glider said:


> Looks like a recycled WW2 Jeep to me.



On the outside it resembles the old willys, but it's a complete new vehicle. Supposedly even outperforms a humvee in certain off road areas, so I hear...


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## Screaming Eagle (Jan 1, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> F it. Buy a mule. God I hate cars.



Yes, but they are such a necessitie these days.

Im into muscle cars. No riceburners. EVER.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 1, 2007)

Thats the way! Sod Hybrids and Diesels and LPG and Electric cars, if it averages more than 20mpg I aint interested


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 1, 2007)

i'm a farmer's son so of course i'm gonna say diesel's the way to go


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## Matt308 (Jan 1, 2007)

Powered by sheep feces, ofcourse.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 2, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> i'm a farmer's son so of course i'm gonna say diesel's the way to go




Why pay 5p a litre more for soemthing that sounds like old tin cans and gives out smoke liek a chimney  I dont care if its more economical in the long run, I'd derive more pleasure from the sweet sound of an Alfa V6 everyday than saving £25 in petrol a year...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 3, 2007)

ha! no farmer buys at pump prices, we get it in bulk straight from the supplier, much cheaper and far more torque for the tractors...........


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## plan_D (Jan 3, 2007)

Plus, someone seems to be forgetting that he'll be struggling to ever afford the luxurious cars in life. If you want speed at your price range, you'll be looking at the typical 1.8 Golf GTi or something along those lines. 

Why bad mouth diesels when the 2.0 Golf TDi - 130 bhp . It's rapid and economical, when you're not racing it.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 3, 2007)

it's even cheaper if you use the red stuff.... but only within 10 miles of your land in an agricultural vehicle of course Officer


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## plan_D (Jan 3, 2007)

Yes, of course, because a 2.0 Golf TDi is a farm vehicle.


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## Parmigiano (Jan 3, 2007)

I'm all for diesel, even for sporty cars: I was converted back in 1994. 
A 2.0 VW TDi now is 170+ bhp, with double the torque of a 2.0 gasoline. And we have 2.0 BMW at 163, 1.9 Fiat (= all GM and Alfa models) at 150-160 and 2.0 Renault at 174.

You may have less RPM and peak power but the pick up is simply not comparable, unless you go to Porsche and Ferrari.

And Cheddar, the last Alfa V6 went out of production 3 years ago, the current V6 in the Alfa is a revised Holden engine, heritage of the failed marriage with GM

So said, if I could afford to spend 45k Euro in a toy car I would gt myself an Elise...


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 3, 2007)

I know, but there will never be a sound as glorious as that of an Alfa V6.
Diesel may have the higher torque, but the extra weight ruins the handling. And its all very well accelerating from 40-70 in 5th gear a bit quicker, but when it sounds liek youre constantly driving over a cattlegrid in the process it kinda ruins the experience  Petrol all the way, I'll never buy a diesel.


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## plan_D (Jan 4, 2007)

When you actually own an Alfa V6, come back and tell us.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 4, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> go have a look around at where Land Rovers are used, and what they're used for, they've been in production almost unchanged for coming up to 60 years, and for a damn good reason, bring on your steel foundry, the Land Rover will beat it and it currently beating it on every continent on earth, and RE the price, American vehicles over here are more expensive than Land Rovers, does your info take into account import costs? Over here you don't have to look far for a roadworthy defender for a few hundred pounds........



Sorry Lanc but the Jeep is more powerful and will out perform a Defender and Range Rover. It has been proven and done. Sorry but facts are facts. Not everything that comes out of your beloved England is the best thing since bread and butter. Please learn that.





thelancasterkicksass said:


> i've seen 1 ton hay bales on the back of Land Rovers and they handled it no problem, i'm not saying the American pickups can't, i'm just saying Land Rovers can so don't think they can't...........



And the Jeep can haul and 8 ton boat behind it, so whats your point...



thelancasterkicksass said:


> For a range rover perhaps but we're talking Defenders, over 15,000 are used by the Army even the SAS use them........



And because the Brits use it, that makes it great right....


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 4, 2007)

Firstly, The Defender is possibly the best off road vehicle of all time...It will go anywhere, any surface, any weather...The Jeep may well be the best of the SUV's but the humble defender will trounce all on the rough stuff...

A Defender could haul an 8 ton boat behind it as well, but I dont think theres even enough room inside the Jeep to fit the 1 ton bale.

Dont get me wrong, the Jeep Cherokee is a superb vehicle and is certainly up there with the Range Rover as the greatest SUV ever built, i'm not belittleing it in any way; but as a working tool and for pure off-road ability, a Defender wins, every time. Power isnt everything...

And you cant play the 'bias of patriotism' card on me, cos im the first person to slag off the British


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## mkloby (Jan 4, 2007)

So - one set of facts proves defender superior, and another the Jeep superior in off-road capability... What about HMMWV, how does she stack up? I would htink she poops on both.


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## Matt308 (Jan 4, 2007)

I agree mkloby. That was my post about three pages ago. Hummer H1 all the way.


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## Glider (Jan 4, 2007)

Problems with the Hummer H1 I would suggest are 

1) Its thirst. You wouldn't want to pay for the fuel at European prices. 
2) Its size. Try parking one in a car park anywhere in the world outside the USA, and maybe the USA cannot remember the size of the spaces
3) Its load capacity. The only one I have seen only had four seats no doubt there are others
4) Its noisy 
5) Its doesn't know which way is the front
6) It must be expensive
7) Where do you put the hay


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 4, 2007)

cheddar cheese said:


> Firstly, The Defender is possibly the best off road vehicle of all time...It will go anywhere, any surface, any weather...The Jeep may well be the best of the SUV's but the humble defender will trounce all on the rough stuff...



No the Jeep beat out the Defender on the off road. Both the Defender and the Jeep are in catagories called the "mountain climbing vehicals" and the Jeep came in first with the Defender a very close second. I really do need to post these stats and links. I will try to do so tomorrow.



cheddar cheese said:


> A Defender could haul an 8 ton boat behind it as well, but I dont think theres even enough room inside the Jeep to fit the 1 ton bale.



Actually the Jeep beats out the Defender in that catagory as well:

Cargo Volume
*Defender:* 38.7 to 45.0 in (79.3 for the Defender 110 High Capacity Pick Up, but guess what Lanc that is a pick up truck now... oh and the 130 has 65.7 still less cargo space than the Jeep)
*Jeep Grand Cherokee:* 68.5 in. 

Here is some more stats (to be fair I took the best stat Defender has to offer whether it is from a 90, 110, 130 or any varient of that)

Track
*Defender:* 59.5
*Jeep Grand Cherokee:* 62.0

Interior Width
*Defender:* 56.3
*Jeep:* 72.6

Gross Vehical Weight:

*Defender:* 6100lb
*Jeep:* 6150lb

Tow Capability

*Defender:* 7000lb
*Jeep:* 7400lb

Engine HP:

*Defender:* 135hp
*Jeep:* Between 215hp and 420hp depending on the model.

There are many many more aspects that I could post. Some the Jeep was better and some the Defender was better. What I am getting at here is this both are great vehicals but there are other vehicals such as the Jeep that are just as good or passing the Defender as we speak. 

The Defender is a great great vehical, please dont take me wrong.



cheddar cheese said:


> Power isnt everything...



Actually power is a lot when you are trying to tow that 7000 lb whatever plus your vehical is filled up weighing in at 5000lb. You want power.



cheddar cheese said:


> And you cant play the 'bias of patriotism' card on me, cos im the first person to slag off the British



Dont worry I wont with you. I just think it is funny that lanc and some people rag on others for thinking the P-38 or other stuff is the greatest thing since bread and butter when they are the most guilty of it, thinking that anything British is the best thing since bread and butter.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 4, 2007)

mkloby said:


> So - one set of facts proves defender superior, and another the Jeep superior in off-road capability... What about HMMWV, how does she stack up? I would htink she poops on both.



I dont know about civilian HMMWV but the military ones suck. Yeah they look cool but they are not very good. They get stuck in half the **** that a Jeep and a Defender would go right on through in and the military HMMWVs fall apart, especially in the desert environment.

Trust me I know I have had plenty of experience with the military version over the last half decade in all kind of environments.


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## Matt308 (Jan 4, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear that Adler. The off road rags rave about H1s (not same as milspec HMMWV).

Yes H1s are expensive. To my knowledge, unless surplus, they have been discontinued for H2 and H3...which are not a Hummer. Thus not much pool to choose from. Supply and demand folks.

Yes they guzzle gas. But what do you expect. They too are not an SUV, but rather more like a tractor.

They do not have much interior room. Yeah that's because the transmission runs down the middle of the beast so that it can clear 18in obstacles, for God's sake.

Noisy? Not like milspec. C'mon their insulated and mufflered.

Wide? Hell ya. They don't tip over when crawling.

But then you could always get on of these bad boys.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 4, 2007)

Like I said I dont know about the civilian Hummers...

I am sure though that they are not as loud as the military ones that you can hear from a mile away.


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## Matt308 (Jan 4, 2007)

And no comments on the Mercedes Unimog? Actually saw one in Portland not long ago. NOW THAT WAS A BEAST!


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## mkloby (Jan 4, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I dont know about civilian HMMWV but the military ones suck. Yeah they look cool but they are not very good. They get stuck in half the **** that a Jeep and a Defender would go right on through in and the military HMMWVs fall apart, especially in the desert environment.
> 
> Trust me I know I have had plenty of experience with the military version over the last half decade in all kind of environments.



Really? That's not been my experience w/ them... we've had them out in the trails in Quantico climbing all over the hills, mud, ice, snow, and rain. They never had much trouble negotiating reasonable obstacles from my experience w/ them.

Trying to look up some specifications on the hmmwv, further complicated by the fact that there are umpteen different models, and newer ones that were just recently developed.

Gross Vehicle weight: 12,100 (seems to be the new armored models)
civilian hummer has tow capacity of 9,000lbs
civvy hummer has a track of 72"
6.5L V8 turbo diesel (190 hp, 385 lbs-ft) newest eng mounted
Can negotiate 30" water, with fording equip can nav 5ft of water.
Ground clearance is 16" (defender seems 8.5"/ cherokee i believe is 8")
Just some of the figures I found for the HMMWV, had to use a couple civvy stats because I couldn't find military ratings for those areas.

Like I said, I've never had any of the hum-vees that were tracking w/ us evey have any problems off-roading in any foul terrain. Now I will say I haven't had them w/ us in desert environment... yet.


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## Matt308 (Jan 4, 2007)

Ground clearance is 16in, but it can climb an 18in vertical obstacle if I recall correctly. Just think about that. that's a tank stat!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 4, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> And no comments on the Mercedes Unimog? Actually saw one in Portland not long ago. NOW THAT WAS A BEAST!



Have not actually seen one in use before.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 4, 2007)

mkloby said:


> Really? That's not been my experience w/ them... we've had them out in the trails in Quantico climbing all over the hills, mud, ice, snow, and rain. They never had much trouble negotiating reasonable obstacles from my experience w/ them.



Not talking about negotiating obstacles here. Sorry if you misundestood me. I am talking about reliability in harsh environments. She does not stack up to well. Our units Hummers (we only had 3) were constantly in the hanger being worked on because the dust and the fine sand was killing them.

As for the negotiating obstacles. Yeah she can go most places but I dont know how many times I would get our Hummer stuck on the hill leading up to post in the really icey conditions of Snowing Germany in winter time Bavaria but I could up them with my Jeep without a problem and I had to drive my Jeep up that hill every day to get to work.


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## mkloby (Jan 4, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> I agree mkloby. That was my post about three pages ago. Hummer H1 all the way.



Consider that a delayed reaction to your previous post. I never said I wasn't slow


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## Matt308 (Jan 5, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> As for the negotiating obstacles. Yeah she can go most places but I dont know how many times I would get our Hummer stuck on the hill leading up to post in the really icey conditions of Snowing Germany in winter time Bavaria but I could up them with my Jeep without a problem and I had to drive my Jeep up that hill every day to get to work.



Makes me wonder if the differential was working properly or the tires were worn.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 5, 2007)

Interesting stats Adler, im actually a little surprised. Where are they from?



> Actually power is a lot when you are trying to tow that 7000 lb whatever plus your vehical is filled up weighing in at 5000lb. You want power.



Yes, but compare the towing capabilities of the two vehicles, and then compare the BHP levels.

Tow Capability

Defender: 7000lb
Jeep: 7400lb

Engine HP:

Defender: 135hp
Jeep: Between 215hp and 420hp depending on the model.


Very small difference in tow weight but large difference in the BHP. Is the tow weight for the Jeep based on the Diesel or V8? The Defender has a large amount of torque which is why it can pull it off im guessing, as well as extremely tough construction.

(BTW, perhaps you should use figures for the Bowler WIldcat. The ultimate Land Rover. Does a Jeep come with a large onboard water supply for desert survival?  )


As a side note, you wouldnt get a H1 around any off road sites here. Its too bloody big.


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## Matt308 (Jan 5, 2007)

Tow weight means nothing more than ability to safely move tow trailer without inducing unsafe condition with either light front end or overloaded rear axle. Says nothing about being able to tow said weight over a 2500m mountain pass at 110kph.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 6, 2007)

i too am interested in where those figures came from as they're hogswash! 7,400Lbs is a bit over 3 tons, that;s wrong for a start so it makes me questoin where you got them from! and i'm not up on my American jeeps, can you post some pictures of the jeeps your on about please Adler? and some sources for the stats........


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 6, 2007)

cheddar cheese said:


> Interesting stats Adler, im actually a little surprised. Where are they from?



Jeep - 4x4 - SUV - Off Road Vehicles
www.http://www.landroverusa.com/us/...er=I_05paidsearch_yahoo_LandRoverUsa_20050915
Karl on Cars - Jeep Commander versus Land Rover LR3
Jeep Grand Cherokee vs. Land Rover Freelander Reviews and Comparisons






cheddar cheese said:


> Is the tow weight for the Jeep based on the Diesel or V8? The Defender has a large amount of torque which is why it can pull it off im guessing, as well as extremely tough construction.



It is for the V8 however the 6 cyl can pull the same with less horse power.



cheddar cheese said:


> (BTW, perhaps you should use figures for the Bowler WIldcat. The ultimate Land Rover. Does a Jeep come with a large onboard water supply for desert survival?  )



 Nope but I dont ever plan on getting stuck in another desert again!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 6, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> i too am interested in where those figures came from as they're hogswash! 7,400Lbs is a bit over 3 tons, that;s wrong for a start so it makes me questoin where you got them from! and i'm not up on my American jeeps, can you post some pictures of the jeeps your on about please Adler? and some sources for the stats........




No they are not hogwash. It is absolute truth. I also have my Jeep Manual sitting right next to me, with the same figures in it from the won that I drive right now (well that I was driving, I will explain below).

Is it so hard to admit that there is quality outside of England. Let the national pride go abit here Lanc. It makes you look foolish when you claim that somethign can not pull 7400lb. Your beloved Defender can pull 7000lb as well.

I am not saying that Land Rovers are shitty cars. The only think that I like better about the Jeep is the way they look over a Land Rover. Quality I think they are about the same. If I would not buy a Jeep, I would buy a Land Rover.

I posted the links up at the top. Also you can go and download the respective manuals from the official sites.

Here are some pics of the types of vehicals that Jeep makes.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 6, 2007)

Okay now for the story as to why I can not drive my Jeep Grand Cherokee anymore.

I was driving home from work last night and was on a nice priority road when a Chinook Pilot decided to not yield even though I was in the priority and drive right into the side of my Jeep with his nice beautiful BMW Z3 convertable. He T-Boned me!

Anyhow my Jeep actually came out really good with just some nice denting on the right side doors. The only reason I do not want to drive it is, because I have to wait till monday to turn it into the Shop to have the estimate done for the insurance company so that I can have it fixed and the paint job re done on it and I dont want something else to happen to it before the car is looked at.

Needless to say his BMW did not fair to well and the front was pretty destroyed. As he was driving away after it was all over and settled (his fault ofcourse) the rest of the car started to fall away! 

Anyhow I will the car fixed starting next week and have a new paint job on it. Until then I will take the rental car that the insurance company is going to pay and since the only rentals that the shop has are brand new Jeep Grand Cherokees or Mercedes SLKs or Crossfires I will drive in style until my own Beloved Grand Cherokee is fixed.


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## mkloby (Jan 6, 2007)

Sorry to hear about the collision chris... least you're safe.


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## Matt308 (Jan 6, 2007)

Ouch Adler. How much damage to the BMW? Was the guy nice enough about it?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 6, 2007)

Yeah he took the blame straight off from the beginning which was undisputable, especially since a cop was right behind me when it happened. I was a bit rude at first but that is because my baby was hurt.

My Jeep came out actually pretty good. I can drive her with no problem. She just is dented up. I just chose not to drive her until she gets turned into the shop on monday so that nothing else happens to her before she gets and estimate done on her.

The BMW is pretty bad. There is a big hole in the front and pieces kept falling off her. I realized how much crap sports cars are when they are in a wreck. They are made of such light weight materials that they just desintrigate in a wreck.


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## Matt308 (Jan 6, 2007)

Yeah 

I have never forgotten being in a bar in the 90s with my Uncle. This cute older lady came up and asked him what he drove. He said a Mercedes 400SEL. She said, "I drive a Corvette". He turned away from her and mumbled, "I'm alergic to fiberglass".

I about pissed my pants.


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## Screaming Eagle (Jan 7, 2007)

I dont drive but I have a car. Its a 1990 Ford Falcon EA.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 7, 2007)

no adler it's the Land Rover figures i'm disputing not the Jeep's, the fact it's based off the American Land Rover site goes some way to explaining it, but also they're not even mentioning the Defender! for example the UK manufacturers give the towing weight as 7,716lbs and quite how you can think 79.3 doesn't beat 68.5 inches is beyond me!

Either way I can't see either of us giving up on this one anytime, i'm not playing the "It's British" card here I genuinely believe the Landy to be the better vehicle (so do all the thousands that've kept them in almost constant production for nearly 60 years  ), but for some reason you seem to prefer the jeep, neither of us are convincing either of us any differently, wanna call it truce, you go your way i'll go mine?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 7, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> Either way I can't see either of us giving up on this one anytime, i'm not playing the "It's British" card here I genuinely believe the Landy to be the better vehicle (so do all the thousands that've kept them in almost constant production for nearly 60 years  ), but for some reason you seem to prefer the jeep, neither of us are convincing either of us any differently, wanna call it truce, you go your way i'll go mine?



My whole arguement is this. The Land Rovers (all versions of it) are great vehicles. That is not even disputed here. Am I saying the Jeep is better. No. What I am saying is this. The Jeep is just as good. It will go where the Land Rover goes, It can carry and haul just as much as well. 

The only reason I like Jeep over Land Rover is because frankly the Jeeps look better than a Land Rover. Jeeps are just as sturdy and just as rugged.

But okay we can each live in our own little world...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 7, 2007)

Oh and Jeep has been making vehicals for as long as Land Rover has Lanc... 
...So that 60 years of production is nothing special.


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## Matt308 (Jan 7, 2007)

Adler. Let him go his way. You don't WANT to go his way.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 7, 2007)




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## cheddar cheese (Jan 7, 2007)

Been making them longer Adler, remember Willys Jeep  

Land Rover and Jeep are very similar and both make superb vehicles. The Cherokee is better than a Defender though because its easier to live with every day, it would be fairer to copare the Cherokee to the Range Rover in all honesty. It would still be very close and just boils down to personal taste - I'd have the Range Rover because the interior is fantastic and I think they look superb.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 7, 2007)

cheddar cheese said:


> Land Rover and Jeep are very similar and both make superb vehicles.



That I agree with completely.



cheddar cheese said:


> It would still be very close and just boils down to personal taste



Again that is probably the best way I have seen anyone put it yet.



cheddar cheese said:


> - I'd have the Range Rover because the interior is fantastic and I think they look superb.



I think the Jeep looks better and the interior is better and more attractive as well I find. The consoles are more user friendly in a Jeep as well.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 8, 2007)

The Grand Cherokee interior is nice when its not all grey and black...I still prefer the Range Rover interior though, the great big slabs of timber and piped cream leather look wonderful.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 8, 2007)

Oh I agree. I dont particularly like it all grey or all black either.


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## Matt308 (Jan 8, 2007)

cheddar cheese said:


> The Grand Cherokee interior is nice when its not all grey and black...I still prefer the Range Rover interior though, the great big slabs of timber and piped cream leather look wonderful.



If you still live in the 70s. Don't know what Jeeps look like so can't comment on those to be fair.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 8, 2007)

I posted some interior pics of the Jeep.

Well waiting on the estimate for my Jeep from the shop. Gave me a nice Mercedes C Class to drive around until they figure out the cost. It actually coudl be total damage because the part that is damaged can not just be replaced. It has to be completely built from scratch because my Jeep is an older one.

If that is the case I will take the money from the insurance and probably keep driving the damn thing. It will just have a dent in it. I think I can live with that since I love my damn beast.


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## Matt308 (Jan 8, 2007)

Alas, one must admit that their loved one is no longer the pretty lass she once was. 

Hold yer head high, Adler. Welcome to the world of beaters like the rest of us.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 8, 2007)

It just pisses me off. Because some ******* cant pay attention on the road, I get my baby dented up.

People like this guy should not be allowed on the road.


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## Matt308 (Jan 8, 2007)

I hear ya. What year is it? Will you get some decent money out of it or is it likely old enough that the repair exceeds the cost by a large margin? It's so dang expensive to do body work on cars anymore, that its cheaper to throw them away. Sad actually.

No wonder the poorest of poor in America own 1 or 2 cars.


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## pbfoot (Jan 8, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I posted some interior pics of the Jeep.
> 
> Well waiting on the estimate for my Jeep from the shop. Gave me a nice Mercedes C Class to drive around until they figure out the cost. It actually coudl be total damage because the part that is damaged can not just be replaced. It has to be completely built from scratch because my Jeep is an older one.
> 
> If that is the case I will take the money from the insurance and probably keep driving the damn thing. It will just have a dent in it. I think I can live with that since I love my damn beast.


let insurers call it a right off check to see if its possible to buy it back from them for less and get the piece off some wreckers when you when get back to this side of the ocean


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 8, 2007)

How big in the dent and where is it Adler? You could attempt to flatten it out yourself. Back in my banger racing days we had a hydraulic ram for just such things and it worked pretty well. Obviously doesnt make it perfect, the area will be slightly rippled from the metal having stretched, but I suppose you could flatten it out witl filler and spray the area. That sorta thing wouldnt cost too much if you wanted to have a go yourself and it might look somewhat better than leaving the orginal dent there.


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## Matt308 (Jan 8, 2007)

Not likely if this is a key panel with compound curves or is related to the structural integrity of the vehicle. Sounds like it might be.


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## pbfoot (Jan 8, 2007)

I'm guessing its apiece that would be readily available at a wreckers over in North America if you want I'll check it out for you


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## Matt308 (Jan 8, 2007)

Ah. I get it. A junkyard. I'm a little slow pb.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 8, 2007)

I doubt it. I will post some pics. It really does not look that bad, but it is the part that is below the doors that runs the length of the vehical from wheel to wheel. They claim they will have to cut the part out, build a new part from scratch and weld it in.

I want to see if I can just bend the dent out and then repaint the car.


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## Matt308 (Jan 8, 2007)

Ah. Had a Toyota Corona that that happened to.


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## pbfoot (Jan 8, 2007)

Ok I'll translate into politically correct "automotive parts recycler" which cerytainly is better then previously enjoyed auto (used car)


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## Matt308 (Jan 8, 2007)




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## davparlr (Jan 8, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Oh and Jeep has been making vehicals for as long as Land Rover has Lanc...
> ...So that 60 years of production is nothing special.



According to the History Channel, the very first Land Rover had a Jeep drivetrain.


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## Matt308 (Jan 8, 2007)

Really? Didn't see that one coming.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 9, 2007)

That I did not know either.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 9, 2007)

While looking that bit up I saw that the first Land Rover was built in 1948 and the first Jeep the CJ-2 was built in 1944. The CJ-2 remained in production through 7 different varients to the CJ-8 until 1986 and a varient of the CJ is still being liscense built today. 

Thats cool I did not know that stuff.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 9, 2007)

sorry, 50 years is closer as i'm talking about what is essentially the _same_ vehicle for 50 years, *not* how long the company's been going, in 1956 the 88in. and 109in. weelbases were introduced and these chassis are almost exactily the same today, the body has remained almost unchanged, all they've ever done is rounded off a few edges with the Defenders, the indernal dimensions have remained more or less the same and the headlights had to be moved once because of new laws in the low countries, one million being produced by 1976 

1956







Today


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## mkloby (Jan 9, 2007)

The defender's ugly - but in that badass looking way. What's that mercedes G series maybe? that looks somewhat similar to the defender?

from msn autoweek:


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 9, 2007)

never even heard of it  i don't like the look of that rear storage room however


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 9, 2007)

The G-Series is actually an ok vehicle. Pretty decent on the rough stuff and not entirely uncivilised on the road. Im not sure but I think theres a pick-up version too.

Best thing about the Land Rover? The vents under the windscreen. Absolutely fantastic


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 9, 2007)

yes I'm sure Sir Ranulph Fiennes was saying exactily the same thing as he drove around the world in one


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 9, 2007)

I bet he was...operating those vents is a thing of class, something everyone should put on their list of things to do before they die...And all the flip switches and knobs by the drivers door, and sitting in the middle seat, legs astride the gear lever, wondering if you'll survive another change into second from an old Series 3 with a ropy gearbox...

 I miss our Land Rovers


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 9, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> sorry, 50 years is closer as i'm talking about what is essentially the _same_ vehicle for 50 years, *not* how long the company's been going, in 1956 the 88in. and 109in. weelbases were introduced and these chassis are almost exactily the same today, the body has remained almost unchanged, all they've ever done is rounded off a few edges with the Defenders, the indernal dimensions have remained more or less the same and the headlights had to be moved once because of new laws in the low countries, one million being produced by 1976
> 
> 1956
> 
> ...



Lanc So was I....

The CJ series Jeep which started in 1944 and its sister the Wrangler have pretty much never changed except for a few things. Look below....

Starting with the CJ2 from 1944 all the way through the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80,s and to the Wrangler from the 90s.

Only refining the design but not changed, same vehical all derived from the Willys Jeep which dated before WW2. Infact the the CJ2 through the CJ4 were just civilan Willys.

So basically the original Jeep has been built pretty much with the same design for *63* years....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 9, 2007)

you haven't been comparing the Defender to one of those though have you so why introduce them now?............


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 9, 2007)

No I have not been comparing them however a CJ or Wrangler will go anywhere that your Defender will go. I promise you that! It may not be able to carry as much but it will go wherever you want it to, without a problem.

Why did I introduce it? Simply because you put your basis for the best being used for so long unchanged. I am showing you that someone else has done it longer and just as good.

Dont argue with facts.


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## mkloby (Jan 9, 2007)

I've had two wranglers - 1994 and a 2004. the 1994 i had 33" oversized tires and it was lifted - it was very nice! Even the stock 04 did very well off road. Never got that thing stuck anywhere.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 10, 2007)

Yeap they are very capable vehicals. Eveyone who has owned one will tell you the same thing that you said. I really enjoyed driving one aroudn when I borrowed it for a few months. We went and did some mudding with it! Damn that **** was fun. The best part afterwards was you removed the plug in the floor and hosed her down and everything drained out.

A true off road vehical keeping with the design of the original military jeep.


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## mkloby (Jan 10, 2007)

Last year when we flew into Brewton, AL there was an englishman there, which was strange in and of itself, but he was a collector and restorer of WWII jeeps. He rented space in a hangar and had one completely restored jeep, and a couple others. Very nice vehicles - the completely restored jeep he had running too.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 10, 2007)

I would love to buy an old Willys Jeep. I guess you can say I love Jeeps of all kinds from the old to new.

Something I like about all Jeeps no matter what model it is even the Grand Cherokee and the Libertys and so forth is that they keep atleast some one of of the famouse grill from the old Willys Jeep. It might be modern looking but it keeps the same design. You see it and you know Jeep.


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## mkloby (Jan 10, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I would love to buy an old Willys Jeep. I guess you can say I love Jeeps of all kinds from the old to new.
> 
> Something I like about all Jeeps no matter what model it is even the Grand Cherokee and the Libertys and so forth is that they keep atleast some one of of the famouse grill from the old Willys Jeep. It might be modern looking but it keeps the same design. You see it and you know Jeep.



That's a trademarked item i believe, the grill. I vaguely remember jeep going after hummer (gm) for the grill used on the H2, claiming an infringment.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 10, 2007)

How did that end up getting settled?


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## mkloby (Jan 10, 2007)

Long and short - Jeep lost case and appeal.

here's a link regarding the case if you care to read:

Intellectual Property Professional Information Center: Claim to Jeep Grille Design Fails To Block Marketing of Hummer


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 10, 2007)

Thats bullshit. Everyone knows that Jeeps have those. The Cherokees in the 70s did not but the other Jeeps that they made did.

Its bullshit...


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## Udet (Jan 10, 2007)

Cars...well gentlemen, i respect your choices, but say, just like tattoos, XXX movies or drugs...cars are not for me. I had one when i lived in Mexico City but was given to me by the company i am still working for.

It has always been difficult for me to understand people who have a crush on cars. Buying an item that immediately commences losing its value (depreciation), and that right after a couple of years will get overshadowed by "newer versions" of the same type of car making you feel "you need the latest one" seems hard to comprehend.

The only probable exception to such idea could be one of those millionaires who collect cars...any of you belong in this category?

Someone once said to me (a car fan): "Well mate, everything you buy will have its 15 minutes of fame and will gradually fade in preference and will also deteriorate...", possibly right...possibly...

Yes: my clothing will eventually deteriorate and could end in the dustbin, or in the hands of some barefoot beggar...same with my shoes...my books? my CDs? my surfboards?...how fortunate the man with none.

Another common argument of people who buy cars: "hey dude, for most people cars do not mean luxury, they are a necessity". You know for those living in real huge cities. I used to live in one of the largest cities on earth, and i had a car...most times i used the subway or the bus, even asked for rides when it came to go out clubbing on weekend nights.

Even if i have the money to buy almost whaetever car there is, i do not plan to become the owner of one. Rather, when i retire, at 35 -still more than a decade away-, i will buy me a piece of land in the southern pacific where i will become the Robinson Crusoe of the XXI century. When i dissappear i will leave the GPS coordinates of my island so you can drop by and visit me if you wish -and show me some survival skills-. 8) 

Cheers!
Just a personal preference, i know.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 10, 2007)

I understand what you are saying, but for some people it is a necessity. Where I live out in the country if you do not have a car, you dont get to work, you dont get to the grocery store or what not. 

I dont need grandious cars that cost lost of money, but since I need a car I might as well buy something that I like. I love Jeeps therefore I buy Jeeps. 

I do agree about the new car thing. I dont really care to buy brand new cars because you pay more than what the car is worth because of depreciation just when it drives off the dealers lot.


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## mkloby (Jan 10, 2007)

Some people get their thrills from cars, some people get theirs from airplanes, ehhh. If it makes you happy to buy them, go for it!


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## Udet (Jan 10, 2007)

Adler: agreed.

You should see Mexico City someday...never in my life i had the chance of coming across a "culture of cars". Possibly Moscow makes a good opponent in this department.

Middle-class mexicans are totally nuts about cars. Having a new car gives you "social acceptance". A true stupidity. Guys that even lack the financial resources to buy a new car manage to get a new one from car dealers...does not matter if he will lose it in the near future, what matters is to impress people in your environment -and get girls- at least for some time.

It does not matter if you look like Shrek, or if you are a barely literate punk, if you drive an expensive new car, you have made your way through.

Had the chance of meeting guys who would feel bad about not having the possibilty of changing their 2003 model for a 2005.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 10, 2007)

Well I was still driving a 1995 until a few days ago when it got t-boned by a guy who was not paying attention. If the insurance will not pick my car I probably will buy a new Jeep. Not a 2007 though but rather a 2004 or 2005. Not because I have to have it, but because I love Jeeps. I would rather have my 1995 again because I loved the damn thing.


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## R-2800 (Jan 10, 2007)

you should look at the dealer for a 1995 they still might have one from a trade in if your lucky


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## ETriggs (Jan 10, 2007)

2004 Nissan Frontier king cab. Hopefully after this summer I will start building either a Factory Five Cobra replica or a 1920's Ford Model T. My wife has a 2002 Honda Accord. Fantastic car, and it is the only type of car she will buy. 
Eldon


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## pbfoot (Jan 10, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Well I was still driving a 1995 until a few days ago when it got t-boned by a guy who was not paying attention. If the insurance will not pick my car I probably will buy a new Jeep. Not a 2007 though but rather a 2004 or 2005. Not because I have to have it, but because I love Jeeps. I would rather have my 1995 again because I loved the damn thing.


I did a search locally and there are 27 1995 grand Cherokees for sale only 1 Landrover defender though


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 11, 2007)

I dont know of any 1995 Grand Cherokees for sale in Ansbach...


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## pbfoot (Jan 11, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I dont know of any 1995 Grand Cherokees for sale in Ansbach...


What part do you need maybe I can find it... for I've looked a pics of the 95 and cant see what part that would be tough to find


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 12, 2007)

It is part of the body, under the doors.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 12, 2007)

If its the bit im thinnking of, that's called the sill.

New cars...yeah, buying brand new cars is a bit pointless unless you're the kind of person who runs the same car for 7/8 years or more. I've always had an almost sexual obsession with cars and im probably the kind of person who will end up restoring cars and the like. I love driving them, looking at them, working on them and racing them.


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## Matt308 (Jan 12, 2007)

Or perhaps the sill and pan? Sounds like it is an integral piece with the frame (ie spot welded).


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## pbfoot (Jan 12, 2007)

rocker panel or if spot welded drill out the welds and fit piece in


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 12, 2007)

I am going to see what can be done. I will probably buy me a little used car to drive around while I fix her up, because I love her.


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## v2 (Jan 26, 2007)

Something for you guys...:
BBC News Player


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## mikewint (Oct 29, 2011)

Not exactly a car but this is my new Arkansas ride. Second set of pics is the "road" I have to drive to get to the dock where the boats are docked. Used to take the Jeep but my 2002 has seen better days and with 130,000 miles the clutch has too. The Cat is 2-wheel, 4-wheel (limited slip front wheels), or locked 4-wheel. the big baloon tires are 10psi and really grip and soak up the bumps. The auto-trans has low and high plus reverse and will do 50 -55 mph on the open road. Not street legal but no one here cares though I tend to just use it to get to the dock and back
Road Pics:
1. Top of road looking down about 15%
2. Aout 1/3 down about 20%
3. About 2/3 down about 25%
4. Turning the bottom corner, dock on extreem right
5. Looking back on corner
6. Final 180 turn to dock
7. My dock from where the water level was in July about a 40ft drop


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## ccheese (Oct 29, 2011)

Mike... you jumped into a thread that was four years old !

There is another thread out there that I started, "What are you driving?"

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/personal-gallery/what-you-driving-11216.html?highlight=

Charles


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## mikewint (Oct 30, 2011)

didn't pay any attention to the dates. Can you move or should I repost in the newer thread?


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