# Horten Ho-IX Gotha Go 229 o Ho 229.



## juanjose15 (Apr 6, 2010)

Horten 229.

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHF6DjW60NY_

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFHe4jQIbm8_

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQupBl7Ehuw_ 

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhyjGiHks1g_



Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit comparación con los Horten 229.



Saludos.


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## juanjose15 (Apr 6, 2010)

Horten 229.
National Geographic - Hitler Stealth Fighter: Parte 1 de 5

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbCgDidqGUU_

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aj_VkvzbAM_

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JdlwQ1GcOk_

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR-MdKEDnEU_

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqLGymG2r4o_

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBnBSJ9bz3A_



Salud.


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## juanjose15 (Apr 6, 2010)

Horten Ho 229 cockpit mockup 
Saturday, October 25, 2008
Throttle quadrant 
Here's a good example of why I simply *must* do this project! Arthur Bentley kindly sent me scans of all the original German production drawings of the cockpit area. The Ho 229 is one of the few German aircraft from WWII where the original drawings survived. Most were destroyed as the allies advanced unfortunately.
So, the throttle box. I had some good photos of this, here's an example



I started on a more or less rectangular box in Autocad, but then I got the drawings from Arthur, turns out the shape is a trapezoid


[/URL
[URL=http://img231.imageshack.us/i/hortenhoixgothago229.gif/]





Horten Ho 229 cockpit mockup: Throttle quadrant
Salud.


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## tomo pauk (Apr 6, 2010)

Great photos drawings, thanks a lot 

Could you please translate this:


> Con la tecnología Horten se fabricaron en USA los solo ala voladora de Northrop XB-35 / YB-35


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## bobbysocks (Apr 6, 2010)

With the Horten technology they made in the USA the single flying wing of Northrop XB-35/YB-35

copy and paste into microsoft word....and have it translate for you...it works pretty slick!!


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 6, 2010)

bobbysocks said:


> With the Horten technology they made in the USA the single flying wing of Northrop XB-35/YB-35



Not true - Northrop was working on his flying wings at the same time the Horten Brothers were building theirs. Although the Hortens got a recip powered flying wing in the air first, Northrop was the first to build combat flying wing aircraft (B-35, P-79 and P-56). The MX-324 actually flew before the Horten H IX.


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## bobbysocks (Apr 6, 2010)

i just translated the above post...that's probably from the book or story that he got it from.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 6, 2010)

bobbysocks said:


> i just translated the above post...that's probably from the book or story that he got it from.



Gotcha. I think i saw a similar post the other day and caught just a little of the translation


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## bobbysocks (Apr 6, 2010)

well too...just because it is in print doesnt make it true... lets find out where he got it..

Juan, ¿De dónde usted consiguió la información para su poste aquí?


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## GrauGeist (Apr 6, 2010)

The F-117 really hasn't anything to do with the Horton Brother's design and if anything, is more along the lines of Dr. Lippisch's designs, like the Me163.

Lippisch used to incorporate a vertical stabilizer in his aircraft where the Hortons did not.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 6, 2010)

GrauGeist said:


> The F-117 really hasn't anything to do with the Horton Brother's design and if anything, is more along the lines of Dr. Lippisch's designs, like the Me163.
> 
> Lippisch used to incorporate a vertical stabilizer in his aircraft where the Hortons did not.



Actually the F-117 has nothing to do with either. "Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction" by Petr Yakovlevich Ufimtsev.


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## Shortround6 (Apr 6, 2010)

bobbysocks said:


> well too...just because it is in print doesnt make it true... lets find out where he got it..
> 
> Juan, ¿De dónde usted consiguió la información para su poste aquí?



See:
Northrop N-1M - research aircraft

and:
Northrop N-9M - research aircraft

and:
Northrop XP-56 Black Bullet - research aircraft

and:
Northrop XP-79B Flying Ram - research aircraft

If old Jack was stealing Horten technology he was a lot trickier than he he is given credit for.

Just where did he hide that time machine


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## GrauGeist (Apr 6, 2010)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Actually the F-117 has nothing to do with either. "Method of Edge Waves in the Physical Theory of Diffraction" by Petr Yakovlevich Ufimtsev.


Agreed...there is more of a similarity to the Komet than the Ho-IX, but that's where it ends, just a similarity.

Jack Northrop was inspired by the Horton Brother's prewar wing projects, but his designs were his own. It is too bad what happened between Convair and Northrop, it would have been interesting to see where the (Y)B-49 and it's technology would have taken aviation back then.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 6, 2010)

Shortround6 said:


> If old Jack was stealing Horten technology he was a lot trickier than he he is given credit for.
> 
> Just where did he hide that time machine



Yep! And was also doing at the same time he was building the XB-35!


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## Shortround6 (Apr 6, 2010)

GrauGeist said:


> Jack Northrop was inspired by the Horton Brother's prewar wing projects, but his designs were his own.



See: the first Northrop flying wing

While the 1929 design may not have been a true flying wing it seems Jack Northrop didn't need much inspiration from anybody else. He did need help in getting "inspiration" to actually work.

Of course even Jack Northrop didn't have an exclusive on flying wing type aircraft (or at least lifting bodies).

See: Pictorial Chronology of Burnelli Aircraft that were built

and:

www.aircrash.org.org/Burnelli- Cunliffe-Owen Clyde Clipper OA-1


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## tomo pauk (Apr 7, 2010)

bobbysocks said:


> With the Horten technology they made in the USA the single flying wing of Northrop XB-35/YB-35
> 
> copy and paste into microsoft word....and have it translate for you...it works pretty slick!!



Not so fast, bobby 

I've used the Google translate and the translation was going in that direction (= Nothrop was using Horten's technology etc. - not true as we know it), so I've asked juanjose to provide exact translation, before I throw rotten tomatoes at that particular sentence


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## Vincenzo (Apr 7, 2010)

tomo pauk said:


> Not so fast, bobby
> 
> I've used the Google translate and the translation was going in that direction (= Nothrop was using Horten's technology etc. - not true as we know it), so I've asked juanjose to provide exact translation, before I throw rotten tomatoes at that particular sentence



i'm agree with bobby translation (and w/o using web translation, castellano it's enough near to my langauge to, commonly, understand the writed)


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## Milosh (Apr 7, 2010)

England's distinguished G.T.R. Hill designed this Westland-Hill Pterodactyl Mk. IA in 1928. This experimental tailless monoplane had pivoted wing tips that served as both ailerons and elevators and that remained effective regardless of the airplane's attitude.

from Flying wings in Europe between the wars
which shows many other flying wings besides what is posted above.


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## juanjose15 (Apr 7, 2010)

tomo pauk said:


> Great photos drawings, thanks a lot
> 
> Could you please translate this:



Powered Horten were manufactured in the USA the only flying wing Northrop XB-35 / YB-35

Saludos de juanjose15


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## tomo pauk (Apr 7, 2010)

You know that is not the truth, yes?


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## juanjose15 (Apr 7, 2010)

bobbysocks said:


> well too...just because it is in print doesnt make it true... lets find out where he got it..
> 
> Juan, ¿De dónde usted consiguió la información para su poste aquí?



Hola bobbysocks.
Después de la II Guerra Mundial Reimar fue a la universidad para continuar sus estudios, y Walter pidió trabajo en la empresa americana Northrop, (que también trabajaba en alas volantes) aunque no lo consiguió debido a la incapacidad de la empresa para trasladarlo a Estados Unidos.
Finalmente Walter permaneció en Alemania llegando a ser oficial de la Luftwaffe de la posguerra y Reimar se trasladó a Argentina, donde siguió trabajando en diseños para particulares y para el ejército argentino. Tal vez el más relevante de estos diseños sea el IA 38 “Naranjero”, llamado así porque estaba pensado para transportar alimentos rápidamente.
Reimar Horten vivio en Cordoba, Argentina hasta su muerte a principios de los 90 y Walter volvió a Alemania donde murió el 9 de Diciembre de 1998 a los 85 años de edad.
Con la Revolución Libertadora de 1955 que pone fin al gobierno de Perón, también pone fin a la búsqueda de estos hermanos misteriosos. Al llegarle conocimientos del paradero de los hermanos Horten, los EEUU piden su inmediata extradición para juzgarlos por crímenes de guerra (4). En febrero de 1956 son deportados a los EEUU y no se tiene ninguna noticia más de ellos. Ese parece ser el fin de los trabajos independientes de los Hermanos Horten. A partir de ese entonces pasarían a formar parte del centro de investigación OVNI de los EEUU. 
Que se sepa, se rescataron un Ho IX (229 V3) casi terminado [foto de arriba] y uno de los primeros planeadores (un Ho IV). Ambos se conservan en distintos museos de los EE UU.

After World War II Reimar went to college to continue his studies and work Walter asked the American company Northrop (who also worked on flying wings) but did not succeed due to the inability of the company to move to the United States .
Walter remained in Germany finally becoming official Luftwaffe Reimar the war and moved to Argentina, where he continued working on designs for individuals and for the Argentine army. Perhaps the most important of these designs is the IA 38 "Naranjero" so called because it was designed to deliver food quickly.
Reimar Horten lived in Cordoba, Argentina until his death in early 90's and Walter returned to Germany where he died on December 9, 1998 at 85 years of age.

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjXr5w3M4mc_
Nurflugel
Saludos de juanjose15.​


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## zoomar (Apr 7, 2010)

Its a shame such wonderful pictures (some I have never seen before) were accompanied by such an innacurate text. Lets get a few facts straight:

All the Northop flying wing designs were developed entirely independently from the Hortons' work. The P-79, B-35, and B-49 would have been developed even if the Horton brothers never lived. I'm not sure the P-56 should be called a "flying wing" since it did have a fuselage. Wasn't it more like the Me-163 in concept as a tail-less plane?

Horton's designs were more pure flying wings than Northrops', which were more conservative and generally had some form of vertical surfaces.

The superficial similarity of the Northrop B-2 to the 229 should not lead people to consider the 229 some sort of early "stealth" aircraft having anything to do with the B-2. Radar stealth was never a part of the development of the 229, as far as I know. Yes, the 229 would have been stealthy...about like the Mosquito.

The 229 had nothing to do with the F-117

Who knows what the 229 would have been called if it was ever put into service. It is my understanding that the only official designation it ever had was "8-229", the "8" being an RLM designation meaning "fighter". I've heard equally convincing arguments based on German precedent that it might have been called either "Ho-229" or "Go-229" if it actually was made operational.

The whole 229 project is an example of the unreasonable fascination people have with late war German what-if types. Only one powered prototype was ever flown and it crashed well before the possible performance envelope was explored. There is absolutely no evidence the 229 would have come close to the performance the Hortons' anticipated ("hoped for" might be a better word). Given the conditions under which the planes would have been produced and the almost certain kinks that would have had to be worked out, it's more realistic to imagine the entire program would have been cancelled at some point. All early flying wing designs simply lacked the modern computers that allow the B-2 to fly well. They were plagued by directional instability and other faults. At least the B-35/B-49 were being developed by a well-funded major industrial facility that didn't have to worry about being bombed every day. The Horton designs were little more than private experimental planes the Nazis got excited about because the Horton's themselves were good Nazis and effective advocates for their cool-looking planes. This is why Gotha was brought in to turn something more suited to Oskosh into a real warplane - and why in the process they had to make so many detail changes to the original Ho-X that who knows if the first true Ho/Go-229 (the one in storage at the Smithsonian) would even fly 500 meters without crashing. Even Northrop, with the full backing of millions of dollars and lots of B-35 and B-49 prototypes to play with never produced a usable bomber; to imagine that the Hortons and Gotha, working in dispersed factories in a bombed out Germany would produce an effective fighter just stretches the imagination too far.


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## juanjose15 (Apr 7, 2010)

tomo pauk said:


> You know that is not the truth, yes?



Hola

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP4Ucigr2Rg_
Segards of juanjose15


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## tomo pauk (Apr 7, 2010)

Timeline, facts, numbers please


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## juanjose15 (Apr 7, 2010)

zoomar said:


> Its a shame such wonderful pictures (some I have never seen before) were accompanied by such an innacurate text. Lets get a few facts straight:
> 
> All the Northop flying wing designs were developed entirely independently from the Hortons' work. The P-79, B-35, and B-49 would have been developed even if the Horton brothers never lived. I'm not sure the P-56 should be called a "flying wing" since it did have a fuselage. Wasn't it more like the Me-163 in concept as a tail-less plane?
> 
> ...



Hermanos Orville y Wilbur Wright 1905.



This is due to the evolution.







Evolution from 1905 to 2010.
Greetings and a hug juanjose15


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 7, 2010)

zoomar said:


> Even Northrop, with the full backing of millions of dollars and lots of B-35 and B-49 prototypes to play with never produced a usable bomber.



Actually that's arguable - Depending who you talk to the YB-49 could have been deployed. During flight testing there were conflicting reports on whether it was a stable bombing platform or not. Northrop later admitted he was being pressured by the former Sec. of War (His name escapes me) to merge with Convair. As a result Convair got the B-36 contract and Northrop got the F-89 program as a consolation prize. The man that tried to get Northrop to merge with Convair later became their president.



tomo pauk said:


> Timeline, facts, numbers please



Just Wiki XB-35, XP-56, XP-79 and the MX-324. The XB-35 was being constructed as the first combat Hortens were being deployed. If Northrop remotely copied any war time data from the Hortens that means Northrop had spies working in close quarters with the Hortens and stole enough data so he could build a giant bomber in about a year or two!



juanjose15 said:


> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP4Ucigr2Rg_




Sorry Juanjose - that clip is a fairytale, pure fiction.

Folks a few things here...

Jack Northrop was well aware of the Hortens as they were aware of Jack Northrop. Their work coincided with one engineer having some advances over the other. Although it seems that the Hortens were purposely designing a radar evading aircraft, I think for the most part the aircraft just lended itself to have a low radar profile by virtue of the aerodynamics that went into it. The recent National Geographic show revealed a lot of new information about the Horten wing including the discovery of a graphite material between the wood lamination's of its construction. Although these laminates can be considered radar absorbing material, in reality I believe it was there to act as a ground plane for internal electrical bonding as well as lightning protection. With all due respect to the guys who built the Northrop model of the Horten wing, but I don't think they ever had experience with installing electrical ground planes in aircraft as most of them worked in "mock up" and were basically model builders.

The Hortens were brilliant engineers as was Jack Northrop. Their designs were way ahead of their time and offered a prelude into advanced technologies but be advised that the Horten Ho 229 was not a "Stealth Fighter" and Jack Northrop's aircraft, including the B-2 had nothing to do with the Hortens work in WW2. You may see some similar characteristics between the B-2 and the Horten Bombers, but I think there's little or no functional ideas between the two aircraft. As a matter of fact most of the stealth data used by Northrop to design the B-2 came from this aircraft...







Again folks, trying to link the B-2 to the Horten flynig wings is like trying to link the the Natter to the Space Shuttle.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 7, 2010)

One of the things that alot of folks overlook, is that the Hortons were not the first to make and fly a powered "flying-wing" aircraft. There were a few designers that were trying to work out the issue of a flying wing design.

We had a great discussion about all this in a thread a couple years ago that may be of interest to everyone. It covers not only the Horton's aircraft, but other wings from that time period as well (has alot of good images, too). There is a post of mine in there (number #5) that refers to Northrop using some of the Horton's data, but that was a reference to post war...not anything before 1945-46, I should have been a little clearer on that.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aircraft-pictures/german-flying-wings-15300.html


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## juanjose15 (Apr 8, 2010)

*¿"La Campana"?, *fue llevado a los EE.UU. después de la Segunda Guerra Mundial, y la tecnología se sentaron las bases para la aviación moderna. de tecnología alemana otros también "confiscados" y probado por los militares de EE.UU., *entre ellos, era un avión prototipo alemán Horten Ho 229.. de estos vuelos de prueba resultó en el aumento significativo de supuestos avistamientos de ovnis en los EE.UU.. *




*Ingenieros y tecnicos especialistas que trabajaban para los NAZIS, después de la World War II, trabajaron para USA.*
El mejor ejemplo es la cuenta de la Kenneth Arnold, de 1947, el avistamiento de ovnis primera informado amplia mente en los Estados Unidos



*El Go 229 fue el precursor de aviones que se desarrollarían después como el YB-49 antes mencionado o el XB-35 Flying Wingbomber de la Northrop Aircraft Company que se empezó a construir en 1946 por iniciativa del gobierno estadounidense. *



http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YB-35
Saludos.
Magnetic field


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## bada (Apr 8, 2010)

zoomar said:


> This is why Gotha was brought in to turn something more suited to Oskosh into a real warplane - and why in the process they had to make so many detail changes to the original Ho-X that who knows if the first true Ho/Go-229 (the one in storage at the Smithsonian) would even fly 500 meters without crashing.



Gatha WAGON Fabrik was assigned by the RLM to build the ho-9 because of their knowledge and ability to work with simple materials as steel-tubes and wood and not because they want to build the plane.
Actualy, all the modifications tha Gotha made on the Ho-9 project (use of larger steel tubes->higher weight; deleting the small outside drag rudders-> less lateral control; smaller wood layers on the wings-> less strength ) and their "slowliness" to build their first fuselages show the goal to sabotate the project to promovate their own, called P60.

Those points are explained in the book "Horten9, a technical history" with inteviews of project chiefs of horten and gotha. The p60 project chief explaining how he was frustrated by the horten's brothers because of their ability to build an airfoil capable of high speeds, low drag and all that without any wind tunnel testing. also critisizing their drag rudders, promoving his own version of the same drag rudders.

there was simply a "my is bigger" contest between Gotha's professors and the horten brothers.

As for the crash of the V3, it's cause is mostly due to the pilot (Zimler if i rember correctly) beeing a sailplane pilot and not having any experience with high speed planes and especially with jet-planes.

i'm not saying that the plane was ready to build "en masse", there were a lot modifications to do , as the CG that was much too in the rear, or the strenght of the central frame that would have to be adressed, but is wasn't such a bad plane as eveyone says.

Now that ther is a full scale mock up, it would be nice to have some modern aerodynamic data on it


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 8, 2010)

juanjose15 said:


> *¿"La Campana"?, *fue llevado a los EE.UU. después de la Segunda Guerra Mundial, y la tecnología se sentaron las bases para la aviación moderna. de tecnología alemana otros también "confiscados" y probado por los militares de EE.UU., *entre ellos, era un avión prototipo alemán Horten Ho 229.. de estos vuelos de prueba resultó en el aumento significativo de supuestos avistamientos de ovnis en los EE.UU.. *



Now that's a fairy tale!!!! By the time these folks arrived in the US the XB-35 was already flying.


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## juanjose15 (Apr 8, 2010)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Now that's a fairy tale!!!! By the time these folks arrived in the US the XB-35 was already flying.


Hola FLYBOYJ.
In June 1946, the XB-35 prototype made its maiden flight. The first and the second XB-35 were scrapped 23 and August 19, 1949, respectively.

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjXr5w3M4mc_

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EutVF4OUw0k_

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP4Ucigr2Rg_

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBnBSJ9bz3A_

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iCh5E8qLkI_
Que se sepa, se rescataron un Ho IX (229 V3) casi terminado [foto de arriba] y uno de los primeros planeadores (un Ho IV). Ambos se conservan en distintos museos de los EE UU.





Greetings and a hug juanjose15.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 8, 2010)

juanjose15 said:


> Hola FLYBOYJ.
> In June 1946, the XB-35 prototype made its maiden flight. The first and the second XB-35 were scrapped 23 and August 19, 1949, respectively.


Yes, and they started building it in 1943?!? So how did any German scientists work on it? The first group of german scientist didn't arrive until the summer of 1945. By that time the XB-35 was half built!

No German scientist worked on the XB-35 (at least in its design and assembly stages) that were brought over from Germany on Operation Paperclip. I've seen no evidence that Northrop or the US government hired them for the XB-35 program.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

The "UFO" stuff is flat out nonsense!


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## juanjose15 (Apr 8, 2010)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Yes, and they started building it in 1943?!? So how did any German scientists work on it? The first group of german scientist didn't arrive until the summer of 1945. By that time the XB-35 was half built!
> 
> No German scientist worked on the XB-35 (at least in its design and assembly stages) that were brought over from Germany on Operation Paperclip. I've seen no evidence that Northrop or the US government hired them for the XB-35 program.
> Operation Paperclip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...



Hola FLYBOYJ.




Junkers aleman de 1929.

Greetings and a hug juanjose15.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 8, 2010)

Anybody notice that Kenneth Arnold's "UFO" looks a heck of alot closer to the Horton's Parabel than it does to the Ho IX?


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 8, 2010)

It does - but I doubt the Hortens had anything to do with it!


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## juanjose15 (Apr 9, 2010)

La Campana Nazi - Die Glocke.
Un arma secreta, dispositivo construido por los nazis en la Segunda Guerra Mundial, de la especulación se inició en 2000 por un historiador de la aviación polaco Igor Witkowski. afirmó en su libro que un oficial de inteligencia de Polonia le había mostrado transcripciones secretas de interrogatorio de la KGB general de las SS Jakob Sporrenberg en la década de 1950. durante el interrogatorio sporrenberg habrían proporcionado detalles acerca de un proyecto militar secreto que Witkowski denominado La Campana de los nazis. el mundo occidental de habla Inglés se interesaron más en el misterioso artefacto "en 2003 cuando un periodista británico Nick Cook siempre la especulación más detallada sobre la campana en su libro. La caza del Punto Cero. 
*Los OVNIs de los Nazis 1 de 6*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aimIbFS38Os_
La Campana se dice que es un experimento llevado a cabo por científicos del Tercer Reich de trabajo para la SS en un centro alemán conocido como Der Riese cerca de la mina de Wenceslao. La mina se encuentra a 50 kilómetros de Breslau, un poco al norte de la aldea de Ludwikowice K? Odzkie cerca de la frontera checa. Cook y Witkowski visitaron el sitio para el Canal 4 del Reino Unido OVNIs documental: la evidencia oculta (aka Un Alien Historia de la Tierra).
El dispositivo es descrito como metálico, de aproximadamente 9 metros de ancho y de 12 a 15 pies de altura con una forma similar a una campana. Contenía dos contra-rotatorios cilindros llenos de una sustancia similar al mercurio que brillaba violeta cuando se activa, conocido sólo como Xerum 525 (se ha especulado que el mercurio de Red). Cuando se activa, la campana emiten radiación fuerte, que condujo a la muerte de varios científicos y diversas plantas y animales sujetos de la prueba.
*Los OVNIs de los Nazis 2 de 6*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rHmQpcIULI_
Según Igor Witkowski, el historiador polaco aeroespacial que investigó este arte durante 20 años. 
El aspecto exterior era tal, como que era una tapadera de cerámica, en forma de campana, que albergaba una especie de núcleo o eje alrededor del cual girar dos cilindros, en torno al eje de rotación opuesta. Y después de la conexión de alta tensión de corriente, los cilindros de empezar a girar en sentido contrario (Todo indica) que podría haber sido una forma de dominar la gravedad. 
*Los OVNIs de los Nazis 3 de 6*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTjt1FhWkm8_
Uno de los contactos científico de Cook en la búsqueda de Punto Cero, es una "Dr. Dan Marckus". (Estados Cook en su libro que él tiene "borrosa" Marckus nombre y que es "un eminente científico adjunto al departamento de física de una de las universidades de Gran Bretaña sabe mejor".) Dr. Marckus alegó que La campana fue un generador de campo de torsión y que los científicos SS estaban tratando de construir una especie de máquina del tiempo con ella.
*Los OVNIs de los Nazis 4 de 6*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIdN46B6ERs_
En su libro "Hitler y suprimidas aún secreto armas, Ciencia y Tecnología", Stevens escribió acerca de una conversación en los años sesenta entre el padre de un amigo y su jefe en la NASA, Otto Cerny, un científico alemán de la Operación Paperclip. En Cerny primero fue vagas sobre su trabajo anterior, el despido como "experimentos extraños en la naturaleza del tiempo". Sin embargo, en algún momento durante la conversación Cerny se describe similar a un espejo cóncavo en la parte superior del dispositivo que permita "imágenes del pasado" para ser visto durante su funcionamiento. Afirmó que era posible "ir hacia atrás y testigo de las cosas", pero no para ir hacia adelante no esperar. era una super arma de más allá de las estrellas:
*Los OVNIs de los Nazis 5 de 6*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOelp7-82F8_
Jan Van Helsing afirma en su libro "sociedades secretas" que, en una reunión a la que asistieron los miembros de diversas órdenes secretas (Vril Gesellschaft, Sociedad Thule, la élite de las SS de Sol Negro) y dos medios, los datos técnicos para la construcción de una máquina voladora que se reunió junto con los mensajes que se dice que han llegado desde el sistema solar de Aldebarán 
donde está ahora este dispositivo? Algunos dicen que fue obtenida por los militares de EE.UU. después de un acuerdo se hizo con el ingeniero alemán Hans Kammler, que lideraba el proyecto. supuestamente Kammler compró su libertad a cambio de la campana y todos los conocimientos que tenía. La campana y ambos Kammler desapareció después de la guerra.
*Los OVNIs de los Nazis 6 de 6*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqXDyShuwWs_


*nazi ufo The Bell Documentry part 1*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8e6wUfueBo_
*nazi ufo The Bell Documentry part 2*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxGNCRoXmpQ_
* nazi ufo The Bell Documentry part 3*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Wi59oKaJ4_
*nazi ufo The Bell documentry part 4*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-XHeeV-4Uo_
*nazi ufo The Bell documentry part 5*

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7qkRFjc8Z0_

Greetings and a hug juanjose15.


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## Waynos (Apr 9, 2010)

The Hortens were just part of a general movement to develop flying wings that existed throughout the 1920's and 30's. They were not the first, though their aircraft were the prettiest 

These people (Northrop, Horten, Hill, Lippisch et al) even met up to discuss various issues on occasion and followed each others work as any scientists working in a similar field might. (There is a report on just such a meeting in an issue of Flight from 1930 that can be viewed on the online archive) 'Copying' is a ridiculous term to use as each displayed their own individual 'style' in the designs they pursued.

Indeed they all might have been inspired by J W Dunne who built successfull swept flying wing biplanes as early as 1910 and even supplied at least one machine of this type to the US Navy in 1913.

This romanticizing of the Horten design into some sort of futuristic super stealth design from which all such modern types evolved (F-117? - WTF?) is just silly fantasy.


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## juanjose15 (Apr 9, 2010)

Kenneth Arnold
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about the businessman and pilot. 
For the programmer, see Ken Arnold.Kenneth A. Arnold.
Showing a drawing of the crescent-shaped object.
Born - March 29, 1915(1915-03-29) Sebeka, Minnesota.
Died - January 16, 1984 (86 aged) Bellevue, Washington.
Occupation - businessman, aviator.
Kenneth A. Arnold (March 29, 1915 in Sebeka, Minnesota[1] – January 16, 1984 in Bellevue, Washington) was an American businessman and pilot.
He is best-known for making what is generally considered the first widely reported unidentified flying object sighting in the United States, after claiming to see nine unusual objects flying in a chain near Mount Rainier, Washington on June 24, 1947. (See Kenneth Arnold unidentified flying object sighting)
Arnold originally described the objects' shape as "flat like a pie pan", "shaped like a pie plate", "half-moon shaped, oval in front and convex in the rear", "something like a pie plate that was cut in half with a sort of a convex triangle in the rear", or simply "saucer-like" or "like a big flat disk" (see quotes), and also described their erratic motion being "like a fish flipping in the sun" or a saucer skipped across water. From these, the press quickly coined the new terms "flying saucer" and "flying disc" to describe such objects, many of which were reported within days after Arnold's sighting. Later Arnold would add that one of the objects actually resembled a crescent or flying wing (image at right).
The U.S. Air Force formally listed the Arnold case as a mirage; this is one of many explanations that have been disputed by critics, and researchers Jerome Clark and Ronald Story both argue that there has never been an entirely persuasive conventional explanation of the Arnold sighting.
He saw the Horten Ho-IX Gotha Go 229 or Ho 229.



But what he saw was probably the Northrop YB-35



YB-35: In June 1946, the YB-35 prototype made its maiden flight. The first and the second YB-35 were scrapped 23 and August 19, 1949, respectively.
Greetings and a hug juanjose15.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 9, 2010)

juanjose15 said:


> He saw the Horten Ho-IX Gotha Go 229 or Ho 229.





juanjose15 said:


> But what he saw was probably the Northrop YB-35.



That's a greater possibility...


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## Messy1 (Apr 9, 2010)

Quote:
_Originally Posted by zoomar View Post
Even Northrop, with the full backing of millions of dollars and lots of B-35 and B-49 prototypes to play with never produced a usable bomber._

FlyboyJ_Actually that's arguable - Depending who you talk to the YB-49 could have been deployed. During flight testing there were conflicting reports on whether it was a stable bombing platform or not. Northrop later admitted he was being pressured by the former Sec. of War (His name escapes me) to merge with Convair. As a result Convair got the B-36 contract and Northrop got the F-89 program as a consolation prize. The man that tried to get Northrop to merge with Convair later became their president._

I just got done reading a back issue of Flight Journal from several years ago where one of the leading test pilots (his name escapes me right now) of the YB-49 was interviewed, and he basically makes the same points you posted. In his opinion, the YB-49 was a very stable platform, and was suitable for service IRCC. He also states in his words, the YB-49 was not able to be picked up on radar. It was due to the situation you alluded too with the politics of the merger of between Northrop and Convair that the YB-49 was not pressed forward. 
A great story in itself.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 9, 2010)

Messy1 said:


> Quote:
> _Originally Posted by zoomar View Post
> Even Northrop, with the full backing of millions of dollars and lots of B-35 and B-49 prototypes to play with never produced a usable bomber._
> 
> ...



It was known almost from the get go that a flying wing configuration would naturaly have a low radar signature and when modern radar avoiding aircraft were being developed there were many artist conceptions showing a flying wing. Remember the cancelled A-12?


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## riacrato (Apr 9, 2010)

Please tell me you're not actually believing in this Nazi UFO crap you posted up there.


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## schwarzpanzer (Apr 10, 2010)

Some REALLY cool info there!8)

Has the Ho229 been restored then?


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## GrauGeist (Apr 10, 2010)

Wasn't the future president of Convair's name Stimson? I think I recall reading something about his back room dealings with Convair when he was Secretary of War and trying to get Jack Northrop to "merge" with Convair. When Jack said no, the YB-49 was scrapped almost on the spot.



riacrato said:


> Please tell me you're not actually believing in this Nazi UFO crap you posted up there.


You mean their flying wings?


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## riacrato (Apr 10, 2010)

No, no. I mean the "bell project" flying saucer stuff that is shown in those videos posted.


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## juanjose15 (Apr 23, 2010)

Horten Walter 1929.

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjXr5w3M4mc_
Reimar Horten notes: To keep the frontal dimension to a minimum, we decided to put the pilot in a reclining position in our project.
Horten Ho-IIM.



Horten Ho-Vb y Ho-Vc.






Indiana Jones Titaniums! Check out the Orthographic that I illustrated for the recently released Indiana Jones German Flying Wing Titanium from Hasbro!



Horten flying wing of the Ark did not exist Requested.
Greetings and a hug juanjose15.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 23, 2010)

riacrato said:


> No, no. I mean the "bell project" flying saucer stuff that is shown in those videos posted.


Flying discs aren't that far out of the realm of reality, since there were a few projects going on during WWII, and post-war. It wouldn't surprise me if there were even more being worked on that we didn't know about.

The Luftwaffe's Sack AS6 was one such concept that really didn't work out, and if it weren't for a few photos surviving the war, very few people would have known about it. In 1944, it was damaged in a test flight after it's landing gear failed, then it was strafed on the ground by allied planes. After that, it was stripped for it's wood and when the airfield was over-run by allied troops, the remaining metal parts were tossed into the scrap heap and lost forever.

There was also the Vought XF-5U project sometimes called the "Flying Flapjack" which was eventually cancelled in 1947. As well as the "Black Projects" conducted by Lockheed and Convair which were trying to develop disc-shaped VTOL aircraft.

The "Black Projects" were the same line of thinking as Avro, who developed the VZ-9 "Avrocar", which was eventually turned over to...Bell Aircraft...

So there were actually "flying saucers" out there!


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## riacrato (Apr 24, 2010)

All of the projects you mention are in essence ordinary aircraft, except for the Avrocar. But there is no indication the Germans were ever far in utilizing the Coandă effect. 
Anf the bell is supposed to have a magical "antigrav" zero-point-energy propulsion system. Of course there is ZERO evidence for it. I know that doesn't stop the believers from believing, just saying.


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## spottydog (Feb 22, 2013)

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP4Ucigr2Rg_


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