# Group builds.....



## Lucky13 (Dec 14, 2008)

Gentlemen....

I don't really know how many of us here on the forum build models, but would a group build every now and then be something worth doing? If there's any interest in this, would one group build every quarter be too much or just fine? Something like one for a specific kind of aircraft, Pacific, Atlantic, Eastern, Western front, WWI, WWII, Korea, etc...? Those that complete within the time period could also recieve a medal, banner or whatever.... 

Could also do one if you wanted for tanks, ships or helicopter....

Any thoughts?


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 14, 2008)

Great idea, but one that would be dominated by 2 or 3 members here consistantly..... I'd like to see it happen, and Im sure we can arrange some sort of special banner/tag for the individual winner...


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 14, 2008)

Well, O' Enlighted One....was thinking more of in a style in that those taking part and finishing would get the banner/tag...
We all know who the winners would, right?


----------



## Airframes (Dec 14, 2008)

Sounds good to me! Like the idea of a number doing the same aircraft type, or one of a type to fit a scene, for example aircraft of a particular unit. As for domination by certain people, either appoint those people as judges, so they can't take part(!!), or have a 'ranking' system, based on, eg, experience/skill level/age or whatever? Whichever way, it would be fun and encouraging to all and, as Jan says, only those who finish the model TOTALLY can be 'scored'; could make it easier to arrange/judge etc by having it strictly 'out of the box' ?


----------



## Wildcat (Dec 15, 2008)

Great idea. I'm in!


----------



## muller (Dec 15, 2008)

Me too!


----------



## Catch22 (Dec 15, 2008)

I'd be in. We should also make the scale something that's fairly easily attainable, such as 1/48, and it's big enough to see a lot of detail. 1/32nd models are great, but they're pretty pricy and they take a while to complete. That being said, if we do a 1/32 F4U, I'd be ahead of the game!


----------



## tango35 (Dec 15, 2008)

Hey, folks why we start a GB under one Motto ( e.g. 190 Reichsdefender), and than all scales or techniques are allowed. What do you think ?
And for the ranking - the price is fun for everyone during the build and the excitement to see WIP images of the models

greets
Thomas


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 15, 2008)

Exactly.... We could do that or we could also do as you say Thomas, a Reichsdefender GB, but all would be allowed, 109's, 190's, 262's etc.. and any scale...as long as it has something to do with the "Defenders of the Reich"...


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 15, 2008)

Well then, I'm nearly done already!


----------



## tango35 (Dec 15, 2008)

OK Jan,
than let us start with a Reichsdefender GB. Start 01.01.09, End 08.05.2009

All scales, all types, all techniques allowed.

Put me on the List

greets Thomas


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 15, 2008)

Was thinking more in the space of 01.01.09 to 03.31.09....but that's something we all can work out, what suits best...
In this case I'll try my hand on this Yellow 13...


----------



## tango35 (Dec 15, 2008)

Jan,
it was only a thought about the space ( from Bodenplatte to VE-Day ). I will be in with a Me 109 G-14 Black 16 from III./JG 26 lost on 27th Nov 1944 and still missing.

greets

Thomas


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 15, 2008)

Oh....right, that idea never crossed my mind....  good one!


----------



## Airframes (Dec 15, 2008)

Good heavens Jan! You mean you're actually going to USE one of your '13' decals!!!?
I take it the model has to be built for, and during the time span of, the 'competition'?
I'll have to modify my build-programme to fit one in then!
You really do know how to confuse me! Had it all planned; Diorama Guide Part 2 requires a further 2 to 4 models, plus the diorama bases, Photography Guide needs some to demonstrate effects, plus my own models, now I've got to go and buy, and build, another one!!
What a fantstic excuse! Thanks, Jan!


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 15, 2008)

Errrmmm.....eeehh....hmmmm....cough..cough...   Here, have a pint!


----------



## Airframes (Dec 15, 2008)

Slurp, Burp! Shaanks alosht!


----------



## rochie (Dec 15, 2008)

oops double post


----------



## rochie (Dec 15, 2008)

i'll join in with my fw 190 A-8, black 5 of III/JG54 in 1/72 scale if that counts


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 15, 2008)

Actually....I think that I'll toss in this JV44 *13* as well, since I already have the decals and Hannant's have had a new stash of Tamiya D-9's delivered....


----------



## muller (Dec 15, 2008)

Might be a good excuse to start the monster 1/24 190 I have in the stash


----------



## 109ROAMING (Dec 15, 2008)

I'm keen 

When you sheeps wanna start this thing? how long would it go for?

????? I think Catch has a good idea of all doing a 1/48 bird

that way people(Gods) like Terry will be able to do one with more ease than 1/72


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 15, 2008)

Wayne gets a -30 handicap. Oh. And he has to build his model with only his thumbs.


----------



## 109ROAMING (Dec 15, 2008)

Matt308 said:


> Wayne gets a -30 handicap. Oh. And he has to build his model with only his thumbs.





 I'm still gonna lose though


----------



## Amsel (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm in. I will start looking for a good model. I am still learning the hobby but it sounds fun.


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 16, 2008)

I'll order my Tamiya 1/48 190D-9 and 109K-4 with decals later this week....both numbered "13" 8)


----------



## rochie (Dec 16, 2008)

if we're going for a 1/48 then i'll get one after christmas when i've finished feeding the masses


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 16, 2008)

Can do any scale that you want mate, 1/144, 1/72, 1/48, 1/32, 1/24 or 1/1...8)


----------



## rochie (Dec 16, 2008)

1/1 Hmmmmmmmmmmm ! i'll ask the wife


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 16, 2008)

You do that, can expect a positive answer?


----------



## rochie (Dec 16, 2008)

give you one guess lucky !


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 16, 2008)

She said Yes....right?


----------



## 109ROAMING (Dec 16, 2008)

So do we have to do like a Reich defense bird?

sweet my 109K-4's will do nicely


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 16, 2008)

Wayne Little said:


> She said Yes....right?


More like...."of course you can darlin'...."


109ROAMING said:


> So do we have to do like a Reich defense bird?
> sweet my 109K-4's will do nicely


That's the plan mate, any scale, night or day, any bird....


----------



## Airframes (Dec 16, 2008)

And it's got to be built for, and during the span of, the 'competition'? Not an existing model?


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 16, 2008)

Scratch, new start.....noooo cheating!  See, I know you Terry!  Toodle Pip!


----------



## Airframes (Dec 16, 2008)

Darn! More expense! Have to find some time too!


----------



## Heinz (Dec 16, 2008)

So what are the guidelines exactly?


Cheers


----------



## tango35 (Dec 17, 2008)

The rules for me are very simple ( its a suggestion and we can discuss it here ):
- all scales
- all aircrafts used by the Luftwaffe for the Defending of the Reich (for me the Defending of the Reich starts in 1943 and ends in 1945 )
- OOB or with additional parts


----------



## A4K (Dec 17, 2008)

Sounds good to me! Just have to decide which one to do...!


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 17, 2008)

Matt308 said:


> Wayne gets a -30 handicap. Oh. And he has to build his model with only his thumbs.



Do I have to wear a Blindfold?


----------



## Airframes (Dec 17, 2008)

Do you think there should be categories, to give a chance to those that might be nervous about entering? I'm thinking cats for beginner, novice, and up, for example. Might have to have a scale cat also; Wayne knows the set-up re comps, I've forgotten, its so long since I bothered!


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 17, 2008)

Can do Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced if you like....or what they're called....


----------



## Airframes (Dec 17, 2008)

Whatever. Maybe Wayne can advise, if you'd like to mate?


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 17, 2008)

Wayne Little said:


> Do I have to wear a Blindfold?


Aye, and for each day when you start, you have to have a dram or two....


----------



## rochie (Dec 17, 2008)

wayne has to make an fw 190 out of bf 109 parts just to give us all a chance  

probably still be better than mine though talented git


----------



## Heinz (Dec 17, 2008)

Also should we consider photography in terms of some set angles for each person's model. Easier comparison perhaps?


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 17, 2008)

There's plenty of time lol to iron things out before we start... Also maybe decide for time period, should it be from 43' to 45' or from Bodenplatte to VE Day?


----------



## Heinz (Dec 17, 2008)

Time is an elastic entity Jan


----------



## javlin (Dec 17, 2008)

I think I might could be in for a Gruppe build have a couple 1/32 109's with the goodies.Kevin


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 17, 2008)

...and nobody can stretch the time more than I can.... The more the merrier Javlin! 8)


----------



## Catch22 (Dec 17, 2008)

Well, I should be getting quite a bit of moola for Christmas, so I should be set. I also asked for a 1/32 190 for Christmas, so we'll see how that goes.

Edit: CRAP! I forgot the 190 I asked for is an A-5, and I also asked for a Tony, so I'm more likely to end up with the Tony as I have a few 190s already!


----------



## Erich (Dec 17, 2008)

hey lucky a couple of notes on your posting of the bands.

JG 3 was a wide white band not narrow

II./JG 27 had a narrow green band while the other gruppen had a wide green band

JG 300's blue is too light should be a bit more dark 
and IV./JG 301 red/yellow should be reversed, only on Fw 190A's and the Dora-9's was it reversed in the other I.-III. gruppen

cheers

E `


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks Erich, very much appreciated as always!  I suspect that your expertise will be frequently asked for when it all get started. Btw, what do you know about this Bf 109K-4, Yellow 13, the one that I plan to build?


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 17, 2008)

I'll make it easy on you Pr*cks....as our loveble Dan would say.....I will put my hand up and be a Judge of sorts!

It would not hurt to have a couple of category levels (TBA) but remember the bottom line is to have FUN ENJOY....and hopefully learn from the experience!


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 17, 2008)

As you say Master Wayne... We can just make a Group Build of it as my intention first was....no "competiton".  I sure would like for you, Wojtek and other "experten" take part as well with a build or three...make it a bit of you know, an "evening class" for us rookies.... In the end, you guys can "judge" the finished products in way of friendly and constructive criticism....8) I sure know that I need some....

Forgot to put in some friendly advice along the road....


----------



## cbrain (Dec 17, 2008)

Greetings. I'm hoping to join this group build with an Academy 1:72nd Bf109-g. Just a cheapo kit I got to get me started with modeling planes. The boxart I think shows the white messerchmitt flown by Eric Hartmann.

Does Hartmann's chmitt qualify as a "Reichdefender"? Has anybody tried building this kit? Any tips?

TIA


----------



## 109ROAMING (Dec 17, 2008)

rochie said:


> wayne has to make an fw 190 out of bf 109 parts just to give us all a chance


----------



## tango35 (Dec 17, 2008)

@ Erich : Can you confirm that the 3rd Group of JG 26 wore a RD-Band or not ?

greets

Thomas


----------



## A4K (Dec 18, 2008)

G'day Tia!

Glad you're interested!

Do you have the Academy G-14 kit? 

Evan


----------



## cbrain (Dec 18, 2008)

A4K said:


> G'day Tia!
> 
> Glad you're interested!
> 
> ...



Evan, yes, it is indeed the Academy g-14 kit. 

Also, I'm sorry but I'm not Tia. The name is Raymond. I meant "Thanks In Advance" when I placed TIA at the bottom of my post.  My bad.

Raymond


----------



## tango35 (Dec 18, 2008)

The Idea of a Group Build sounds really good, so that we can share our knowledge, tips tricks and so we can improve our skills.
My assembly line is becoming busy, because i bought on Monday the new Ju 88 from RoG and have to finish it till March ( exhibition of my model club ); but before i will finish the Me 109.

greets Thomas


----------



## rochie (Dec 18, 2008)

i agree with lucky wayne and wojtec and other model masters should join in as we all know they'll be great and i for one am hoping to pic up a few jewels of advice !
it would also be a shame if it got too competative


----------



## Heinz (Dec 18, 2008)

Well I'm in, just need to pick (and buy) a bird to build


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 18, 2008)

Well chaps, that's me just ordered my 1/48 Hasegawa 109K-4, Tamiya 190D-9 and decals from Hannant's....two 13's!  Should be here sometime in early January...I hope! Oooh the wait!


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 18, 2008)

I think I could be in this as well... I have a couple of 1/48th Bf 109's waiting to be built, as soon as I can get my ass in gear and finish up my JV44 Dora9...

Have to check the decal sheets and see if I have a Reich Defense crate tho...


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 18, 2008)

tango35 said:


> @ Erich : Can you confirm that the 3rd Group of JG 26 wore a RD-Band or not ?
> 
> greets
> 
> Thomas



III/JG 26 D-9's certainly did....


----------



## tango35 (Dec 18, 2008)

@Wayne :
I know that the Doras had the RD-Band; my question was if the Me 109s ( G-14or K4 ) wore the RD-Band, too.

greets Thomas


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 18, 2008)

You didn't say that in your question...though?  

On a serious note, to my knowledge no pics have surfaced yet that show 109's with the bands in III Gruppe....


----------



## tango35 (Dec 18, 2008)

Sorry, my fault.

Because they are no images yet thats why i asked.

*But*, could it be ? 

Thomas


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 18, 2008)

I always thought that ALL flying aircraft had "RD-BAND", just shows you!   

Anyway, I just found this 109's all the time, great if you want to know about a certain '109 kit! 8)


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 18, 2008)

tango35 said:


> Sorry, my fault.
> 
> Because they are no images yet thats why i asked.
> 
> ...



Personally...I think there probably are some pics out there somewhere.....they just haven't been published or even recognised for what they are....

Years ago it was stated in one Luftwaffe book about the scarcity of D-9 photo's......now look at just how many have surfaced in new books over the past few years.....and there is still more to come in at least 3 new future books.....right Erich!?


----------



## Airframes (Dec 18, 2008)

I have read in various publications, including Cauldwells 'JG26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe', that it is thought the Gruppe did not have the bands. However, there have been a couple of photos where it is not proven that the aircraft depicted were of that unit, but the (B&W) picture showed what looked like the correct RD band. As you say, no proof that the pics are of JG26 birds. Perhaps Erich will have an answer.
Looks like I'm in for the Group Build, not competitively, just for the fun etc. Decided to change plans regarding a FW190A8, which will look slightly 'different'! Means I'll have to buy another kit for the original plan! Darn, another forced visit to the model shop! Oh goody!!! Ha, Ha!


----------



## A4K (Dec 18, 2008)

cbrain said:


> Evan, yes, it is indeed the Academy g-14 kit.
> 
> Also, I'm sorry but I'm not Tia. The name is Raymond. I meant "Thanks In Advance" when I placed TIA at the bottom of my post.  My bad.
> 
> Raymond



Sorry Raymond! Boy, do I feel like an idiot...  

As for me, you can call me anything you like, just don't call me late for lunch  

I've got that kit too, and there are a few basic problems with the measurements and form, but to be honest, I don't think most people would notice. 

-As for the subject of the build, so we're talking specifically about fighters carrying RD bands? I was thinking Me 163s, He 162s and Misteln would fit into the last ditch Defence of the Reich category.


----------



## tango35 (Dec 18, 2008)

Hello Evan,
my question for the RD Band was only for a specific fighter in a specials group ( here III JG 26 ). The Idea for the GB was Reichsverteidigung ( Reichs-defense) with all types and scales and the chance for us to improve our skills.

Here an example of an fighter without RD Band :


----------



## Airframes (Dec 18, 2008)

Good point A4K. I was going off Tango's date span, from 1943.
The bird I have in mind is in September 1944, but I'll have to check my refs more closely concerning the RD band.
If it's going to have to include the band(s), I'll have to rethink it! Darn!
To make it easier on all, could I suggest a combination of Tango's and Lucky's ideas? Any Luftwaffe aircraft defending the Reich, wherever based, from 1943 to May 1945; any scale, individual, plain base or diorama, although only the main subject, the aircraft, should be judged. Judging to be made on the admitted skill/ability level of the builder, eg beginner, intermediate, expert etc., and no competition as such - votes by the participants on which is the best in 'category' - no voting for your own model (!), and if an individual wishes to participate, but not 'compete', that will be the choice of that individual. Main aim - fun, and sharing experience/hints/tips/methods/techniques etc. Also, bringing together like-minded people, and re-creating history in miniature.
Any other suggestions/view/thoughts?
Terry.


----------



## 109ROAMING (Dec 18, 2008)

Nice shots Tango!

One question about 109K-4's I've wanted to know for a while ,Anyone know why some K-4's rear tail wheel was retractable and others had fixed?


----------



## Airframes (Dec 18, 2008)

I've got the answer somewhere, Daniel; similar thing with 'tall' and 'short' tail wheel legs on some late 'G' models. I'll try to find out over the weekend, but no doubt someone will have the answer before me! BTW, done a bit more work on your profile; a bit slow, as I'm using a mouse to 'paint', rather than a graphics tablet stylus, and the damn thing keeps 'flying' around - think I must have a slight glitch in the cable or something. I'll get it done eventually though, as I need it, and a few other different aircraft, for a portfolio someone wants.


----------



## 109ROAMING (Dec 18, 2008)

Cool! could do that as my "Reich defense" bird 

Looking forward to it mate! no stress!


----------



## tango35 (Dec 19, 2008)

@Airframes :
The Retration of the tailwheel was made to have a more aerodynamic cell, also the additional wheel well doors at the main gear - in theory.
In practice the mechanism didnt worked ( reason for me unknown), so the K-4s were flown with tail wheel out, doors closed and the additional doors at the mainwheel were removed.

So if you want to build a K4, i would cut out the tail wheel door and glue them in a close position; for the mainwheel dont glue the additional doors, but dont forget to install the lever for the door in the gear bay.

greets

Thomas


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 19, 2008)

Need to keep that in mind then, since I'm building one K-4 as well, thanks for the headsup Thomas....

Sounds good to me Terry....


----------



## Airframes (Dec 19, 2008)

Thanks Thomas, thought it might be something like that. Did the K sometimes have the tail wheel well faired over with aluminium plate, like the late G models?


----------



## cbrain (Dec 19, 2008)

Ack! Looks like my planned Bf109g-14 of Erich Hartmann wasn't a Reich Defense plane after all.  

Reichsverteidigung

Reich Defense


----------



## tango35 (Dec 20, 2008)

Major Hartmann was not the only fighter pilot who flew the G-14. There were other aces, too. Maybe its ac is very interesting for the tulip scheme, but you have some images from the Reichsverteidigung ( Source : Jagdwaffe - Defending the Reich by Robert Forsyth, Classic Colour )

















greets
Thomas


----------



## 109ROAMING (Dec 20, 2008)

F**k me man

Nice Photos!


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 20, 2008)

Great shots and profiles Thomas...!

Here's a question for you....who's last radio transmission is this? "Theo. I have run out of ammunition. I'm going to ram this one. Good bye. We'll see each other in Valhalla....."


----------



## 109ROAMING (Dec 20, 2008)

Man that's moving Jan


----------



## tango35 (Dec 20, 2008)

No idea, who was it, but you can enlighten me.

For now here second serie of G-14 ( Source : Götterdämmerung by Brett Green )






















btw the Me 109 is not my favourite aicraft

greets Thomas


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 20, 2008)

It's Heinrich Ehrlers last transmission over the Squadron Radio Network before he rammed a B17 bomber with his Me-262, killing himself and exploding both aircraft....would be an interesting machine to build, anyone knows his 262's number and the B-17 that he rammed?


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 21, 2008)

Look at that! A #13, didn't notice that the first time...!  Anyway, just found *13* III/JG EJG 2 and Heinz Bar, any idea what kind of 262 it was, an A1a or?


----------



## Amsel (Dec 21, 2008)

Still trying to decide which kit I will be buying. The Me 262 A1a seems like a likely candidate for me but I am not sure yet. I might also do the FW 190 A8.


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 21, 2008)

Erich! HELP...! Just found this article about JV44's Fw 190D-9 *13* and since the decalsheet that I have from EagleCals is C'd in 2003 and the article was revised on August 23 2007, I'm in a state of confusion...which IS the correct W.Nr. for Klaus Faber's *13*, is it 213240?? 

Fw 190D-9, W.Nr. 211040 ?, “Red 13”, JV 44 – revised on August 23, 2007


----------



## tango35 (Dec 23, 2008)

Help comes by Request .

From Jerry Crabdalls "Doras of the galland Circus - Eagle Files No1 :


























































Any Questions ?
I hope, i could help you a bit.

greets
Thomas


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 23, 2008)

Thank you so very much Thomas, appreciated indeed! Reading that, the link that I posted earlier, made me a bit confused... Thanks for clearing it out!


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 23, 2008)

Red 13 is definitely 213240, Jan.

There was a time where the Japo guys thought differently about the W.Nr. and came up with an alternate hypothesis...they obviously did not have the detail that Jerry Crandall has to confirm the W.Nr.

Do you have the "corrected" decal set for Red 13 as the '13' on the starboard side is different to the port side?


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 23, 2008)

I sure have Master Wayne, got the sheet from Eaglecals, which I'm gonna use...but, with the incorrect wing of Tamiya's Dora-9....hopefully there's a wing correct it somewhere out there...


----------



## A4K (Dec 23, 2008)

What's everyone building? I still haven't decided yet, but will have to try to keep it simple as I rarely have time these days. 

Thomas, do you (or anyone else) have any additional info on that Bf 109G-14/AS you posted in post 84, or of Fw 190D-9 W.nr 500570 Schwarze 12 of II/JG 6?

Cheers in advance,

Evan


----------



## Airframes (Dec 23, 2008)

Thought I'd throw this into the pot, see what you think.
I'm going to participate, or try to, as I'm doing a 1/72nd scale kit for the first time in over 25 years (what? with my knackered hands?!), but not 'compete'.
Unless it's against the rules/ethics of the forum, I'm prepared to put up two prizes, of sorts, as I think that this project is really good and worthwhile; it's bringing people together from across the World, doing what they enjoy, and, also recreating history, in a lighthearted, and educational, way.
I propose to provide an A4 print of one of my paintings, signed and with a Certificate of Authenticity, for the best OVERALL entry, in any 'category'. OK, so it'll be a print off my PC's printer, but should look reasonable if framed; nothing brilliant, but not too bad.
Also, for the model, or modeller, who, in the opinion of all who have entered, has shown the most promise/ingenuity/execution/finish/presentation/improvement etc (NOT a diorama!), from the 'less than expert' entrants, I will provide an original, still in the box, late 1960's 'Frog' 1/72nd scale Percival Proctor kit.
If this is allowable (mods confirm please?), what do you think? Opinions, comments and suggestions as to scoring etc welcomed.
Terry.


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 23, 2008)

A4K said:


> What's everyone building? I still haven't decided yet, but will have to try to keep it simple as I rarely have time these days.
> 
> Thomas, do you (or anyone else) have any additional info on that Bf 109G-14/AS you posted in post 84, or of Fw 190D-9 W.nr 500570 Schwarze 12 of II/JG 6?
> 
> ...



Probably won't find much more on White 4, Evan than what was presented....However there is plenty on BLUE 12 how much do you want.!..


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 23, 2008)

Kick ass Terry, there would be no problem in doin what ur offering... Im kinda screwed on this build.... I have 2 1/48th scale Bf 109's... Both were gifts, one from Wayne and one from Bill....

They are the Acadamy G-14 and the Fujimi K-4 "Herz As", all JG77 rigs...

The only decal set up that might work for this would be the G-14 of Alfred Michael of 16/JG53 based in Halstoff France in Jan 1945.... I dont think this bird qualifies for Reich Defense...

Would a crate from JG77 qualify??? I dont have any other 1/48th scale decals...


----------



## Airframes (Dec 23, 2008)

Might not have been based in Germany, but it was still defending the Reich.
Let me know what you need in the way of 1/48th scale decals Dan, and I'll see if I can help out. I've got a reasonable selection, and probably wouldn't miss a couple.


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 23, 2008)

I am gonna take u up on ur offer Terry.... Obviously lookin for one set for this Group build... Id like to do the G-14 for the build... Somebody popular but one off if u know what I mean... I'd prefer a JG300/301 crate, but lets see if u can gather up somethin tasty...


----------



## Airframes (Dec 23, 2008)

OK mate, no probs. I'll have a look at all decals I have, and see if there might be a combination - a number here, a Geschwader zeichen there - sure you know what I mean. If there's anything in particular you want, for example a Red 6, or a black and white winkel or whatever, let me know. I'll get something posted over the Christmas hols, probably Boxing Day, then you can decide. An address, an envelope and stamp, and whizzo! It's in the mail!


----------



## Airframes (Dec 23, 2008)

Here you go Dan! First batch I've found of bits and pieces. There're are more stashed here and there, just got to find them! All of the following are 1/48th, except pics 3 and 5, which are supposedly 1/72nd, but overscale! Some would pass in 1/48th. 
The last pic is the sheets from the Tamiya 'Dora' I've just bought, but you're welcome to anything apart from the crosses and the dedicated stencils on these !
I'll keep looking and see what else I can find.


----------



## 109ROAMING (Dec 23, 2008)

I think its a great idea Terry and very good of you

Nice pics Tom!

I'm just gonna do my 109K-4 OOB ,can/does anyone see/know anything wrong with the decals or profiles?


----------



## Airframes (Dec 23, 2008)

Found two you could go at.
Bf109G-14, 'Black 8', 5/JG2, Ettingshausen, December '44. It's got an 'Erla' canopy, plain black '8' (I've got that somewhere!), and spiral on spinner. Heavy top colours at front, to rear of cockpit, 'grey' fuselage crosses, heavy mottle. (got the crosses).
Next, Bf109K-4, 'White 1', 9/JG77, Neuruppin, November '44. If you aint got the JG badge, there's a red heart on one of the sheets shown that would fit into the diamond. Wk Nr was 330204, on bottom of RUDDER. This was later 'White 13' (probably) at time of Beodenplatte, with the Defence band added then. I've got the correct figure '1' you could use.
I'll look up some other possibilities and post after the main hols. Thinking JG27, JG4 and JG5, possibly more.
EDIT; just seen Daniels post. It's reminded me of the profile I've been working on for him, JG26 Bf109K-4, and another I've started. I'll check those out too!


----------



## 109ROAMING (Dec 24, 2008)

Look forward to it Terry ,if I can manage it Il get do that as my "Reich Defender"


----------



## rochie (Dec 24, 2008)

at the moment i'm looking at my 1/72 fw190 A8 black 5 of JG/54 but i might try and get somthing in 1/48 after i'm done working on the christmas and new year parties.

great idea on the "prizes" terry and very generous of you


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 24, 2008)

I second that...fantastic idea brother Terry...! 
Don't know much about "my" ride in this build, can only see that the K-4 is a 15./JG53 bird....possibly based in Echterdingen or?

JV44's *13* is slightly more known though....


----------



## Screaming Eagle (Dec 24, 2008)

I'm in!

I have a Fw190D-9 of JG26 from hasegawa that I can do for this build. I have included the masking and painting sheet as well, just to make sure if the scheme for this bird is correct. Also, if anyone has any more information or pics on this particular bird, it would be very much appreciated


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 24, 2008)

Jason, that looks like the old Hasegawa kit to me, the info is all wrong....give me a couple of days and I will set you straight.....Merry Christmas!


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 24, 2008)

Roaming, ur decals are cracked to hell and gone man...

Terry, the K-4 I have has the decals for 5 109's from JG77... White 1, 2 and 17, as well as Yellow 8 and Red 2... Its more of a question on whether or not these decal sets qualify for the Reichsverteidigung build.... The G-14 decal for 16/JG53 in Halstoff France 1945 shows Blue 2...

Any advice or do Terry and I need to come up with something??? Do any of these qualify for the build??


----------



## Heinz (Dec 24, 2008)

I'm still yet to decide, I know it will be 1/48 or 1/32 for something different, for me anyway


----------



## Screaming Eagle (Dec 24, 2008)

Wayne Little said:


> Jason, that looks like the old Hasegawa kit to me, the info is all wrong....give me a couple of days and I will set you straight.....Merry Christmas!



Thank you very much Wayne! Muchly appreciated! A merry christmas to you and the family as well mate!


----------



## 109ROAMING (Dec 24, 2008)

lesofprimus said:


> Roaming, ur decals are cracked to hell and gone man...



Hopefully santa will bring me some new ones


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 24, 2008)

lesofprimus said:


> Roaming, ur decals are cracked to hell and gone man...
> 
> Terry, the K-4 I have has the decals for 5 109's from JG77... White 1, 2 and 17, as well as Yellow 8 and Red 2... Its more of a question on whether or not these decal sets qualify for the Reichsverteidigung build.... The G-14 decal for 16/JG53 in Halstoff France 1945 shows Blue 2...
> 
> Any advice or do Terry and I need to come up with something??? Do any of these qualify for the build??



Course they qualify don't have to have the bands.....all are defending the Reich.....will also check JG300 book to see if there is a close equivalent using the decals you have....seeing you mentioned it earlier....


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 24, 2008)

Coolio, thanks Wayne... Maybe we can get me somewhere with the decals I got...


----------



## Airframes (Dec 24, 2008)

I agree with Wayne. Although a unit might not have been, physically, part of the Home Defence COMMAND, being, for example based in France, their job was still to intercept and destroy allied aircraft attacking the REICH. OK, we take that as mainland Germany which, strictly speaking, it is. But, as all of the conquered/occupied territories were considered part of the 'Reich', then, if an attack on a target in say, Czecheslovakia was intercepted, then it would still be 'Defence of the Reich'!
Bottom line is, any Luftwaffe aircraft involved in interception of Allied bombers/fighter bombers/fighters from 1943 were defending the Reich. What you've got in decals should cover things, but if you think you still need something, let me know.
Hope you and your's have a great Christmas.
Terry.


----------



## A4K (Dec 25, 2008)

Wayne Little said:


> Probably won't find much more on White 4, Evan than what was presented....However there is plenty on BLUE 12 how much do you want.!..



G'day Wayne!

Mate, if you can, give me the works! I want her to look the part, atleast as much as my ability allows. ..And 'BLUE' 12? So she's not 'black 12' as mine and other decals I've seen would suggest ?

I'd love too the updated info you mentioned on Fw 190D-11 Chevron 61 (W.nr.350158 ) if you have the time.

Thanks mate!

Evan


----------



## Catch22 (Dec 25, 2008)

A4K said:


> G'day Wayne!
> 
> Mate, if you can, give me the works! I want her to look the part, atleast as much as my ability allows. ..And 'BLUE' 12? So she's not 'black 12' as mine and other decals I've seen would suggest ?
> 
> ...



This information is what I can remember sitting in my bed at 3 am from the Eagle Editions decal sheet I have.

They originally thought it was Black 12, but it has been changed to Blue 12 as the numbers compared to the crosses on the plane, are lighter. Not by much, but they are. It appears as though the numbers are still darker than the standard RLM Blue, so it is thought that it was originally a Black 12, but the black was painted over with the blue, thus making it darker.


----------



## Airframes (Dec 25, 2008)

Nice info Catch, great stuff. BTW, you are not allowed to do a Corsair in Luftwaffe markings for the Group Build!!! Happy Crimbo mate!
Terry.


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 25, 2008)

Great info fellas....

Im hopin that someone can come up with a way for me to get a JG300/301 kite outta the decals I have.... Ill take pics of the sheets if necessary...


----------



## Airframes (Dec 25, 2008)

Post some Dan, I've got some schemes for late model G6's (looks same as a G14) and 'normal' G6's, as well as FW190's. I'm off to Chrissy dinner now, will be back tonight, possibly sober enough to look at the boards!


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 25, 2008)

OK, here we go....


----------



## Airframes (Dec 25, 2008)

Had a quick look Dan. That one at Neuruppin I've got a better profile for; it's the one that probably had a Reichs Defence band for Bodenplatte. Also, between your stuff and mine, I think I can come up with a JG300 bird.
Problem is, the final score, Terry versus dinner and drinks, is:- Terry 1 - Dinner etc 6 ! 
I gotta lie down! Will look later or tomorrow morning (Friday), and let you know. Hic!
I'm not as thunk as you drink I am!


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 25, 2008)

U freakin boozer u.... Go sleep it off and get back to this thread....


----------



## Airframes (Dec 25, 2008)

Now, now! Be nice to my headache, or it won't tell Brain to work, and Eyes won't find colour schemes!
Back in a bit, hopefully mid evening your time!


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 25, 2008)

Are you drunk Terry....? I'm shocked!  How many bouncing lovelies do you see in my avatar?


----------



## rochie (Dec 25, 2008)

i'm now edging towards getting a revell bf 109 K-4 in 1/48 or a tamiya fw 190 A8 again in 1/48


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 25, 2008)

Very cool Terry....


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 25, 2008)

I checked Eagle Cals site and the decals they got got G-14's is limited and not very impressive....


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 25, 2008)

Try these brother....they have a "few" sets

FlightDecs Hobby Shop Decals


----------



## muller (Dec 25, 2008)

I'm not too familiar with Luftwaffe details, like some of the experts here, I'm wondering would my 190A qualify, its an Airfix 1/24. It has similar markings to the bird in Wurgers sig pic, there's black eagle decals for the engine cowling, was it defending the reich post 1943? I can't check the kit now, I'm at my parents place for xmas.


----------



## A4K (Dec 25, 2008)

Catch22 said:


> This information is what I can remember sitting in my bed at 3 am from the Eagle Editions decal sheet I have.
> 
> They originally thought it was Black 12, but it has been changed to Blue 12 as the numbers compared to the crosses on the plane, are lighter. Not by much, but they are. It appears as though the numbers are still darker than the standard RLM Blue, so it is thought that it was originally a Black 12, but the black was painted over with the blue, thus making it darker.




Thanks mate! I'll just overpaint my decals then with a dark blue.
Cheers for the info!


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 25, 2008)

Found good numerals for Luftwaffe kites in these....just need to make sure that they're useful for Heinrich Bartels Bf 109G-10(K-4?), in which was shot down and killed in the 23rd of December '44 and found in '68 with his remains still inside.


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 26, 2008)

Man, I like that crate Jan....


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 26, 2008)

A4K said:


> G'day Wayne!
> 
> Mate, if you can, give me the works! I want her to look the part, atleast as much as my ability allows. ..And 'BLUE' 12? So she's not 'black 12' as mine and other decals I've seen would suggest ?
> 
> ...



Ok Evan will get some stuff off over the next couple of days.....scratch W.Nr.350158 it is 220014!


----------



## Airframes (Dec 26, 2008)

Right Dan, I'm back, and fully compus mentus!
Here's some more profiles for G14's, K4's and late G6's; the latter look the same externally as the G14.
PICTURE 1: This is the JG77 one you have decals for, but a better profile. This machine apparently later became 'White 13', with the green and white RD bands. It is thought to have been shot down during Bodenplatte, when flown by Lt. Herbert Abendroth. (Image from 'Battle over the Reich, Dr. A. Price.)
PICTURE 2: Two late model G6's from JG300. You'll recognise 'Yellow 13' as the one I did from the 21st Century 1/32nd kit. The other is an ex-JG54 machine. If you alter the canopy on your kit, you could do this; I've got a small 'White 2', but you'd need the black 18. Or, cross kit with a G6, standard canopy and fin, and you could get another kite, shown in next pic. 
PICTURE 3: An unusual G6 with 'Erla' canopy, from III/JG300. It's BARE METAL overall, where the paint was sanded off!
PICTURE 4: Upper surfaces and lower wing tips of 'Red 8'.
All previous three are from Eagle Cals decal sheet EC#88.
PICTURE 5: G14's from JG4, JG5 and KG(J)55. I've got a 'White 1, and a 'Black 4'; the latter if you wanted a representative A/C of JG5.
PICTURE 6; Another, rather ropey profile, of JG5, Norway 1945.
PICTURE 7: A G14 of JG2. I've got a 'Black 8', but not quite the right shape.
PICTURE 8 A rather poor B&W profile of a K4, believed to be from JG27 in April, 1945. I've got the colour details for this.
So, with your decals, a mix of yours and mine, or maybe some that Jan showed, you could find something.
I've also got some black 'Winkels' (see the decals I posted earlier.) I'm afraid the rest I have are 1/32nd, or have discoloured/cracked with age! 
I've got a B&W pic of a JG27 G6 (normal canopy and fin) with black winkels, GruppenKommandeur A/C if that's any use, and I can 'make up' the winkels.
Over to you for choice time!!


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 26, 2008)

Crikey...! Looks like someone's been busy dear boy! Super profiles!


----------



## Airframes (Dec 26, 2008)

Thanks Jan. I've been trying to 'draw' a couple for Daniel, but my f*****g 'mouse' keeps flying all over the screen - time to get a graphics tablet!


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 26, 2008)

Well, if you chaps run out of ideas....here's a few sets from Peddinghaus Decals.


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 26, 2008)

Jesus Mary and Joseph.... U guys sure pulled out all the stops...

To be honest Terry, I like the new profile of White 1 from JG77 u posted up.... Looks like I may stay with that crate, but that depends on whether or not u guys allow me to enter my JV44 Dora for the Group Build...


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 26, 2008)

Guys, Terry has brought up something I want to throw out here and see what the concensus is...

As most know, Ive been working on a Dora-9 JV44 crate for some time now.... Terry has recommended that I submit this model for the Group Build.... As it hasnt yet been finished either in the building or painting department, this could possibly work for me....

The date is alittle off, and it didnt exactly protect the Reich, but the 262's who were... In essence, it did protect the Reich...

Comments???


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 26, 2008)

I don't see any problem with that brother Dan. I'll be tossing in "my" *13* from the same staffeln, so.... Might do another *13* as well if I could make my mind up about which one....besides the one mentioned earlier Yellow 13 from 15./JG 53and now I'm leaning towards Bartels kite in which he disappeared in December '44....decisions, decisions..


----------



## A4K (Dec 26, 2008)

Wayne Little said:


> Ok Evan will get some stuff off over the next couple of days.....scratch W.Nr.350158 it is 220014!



Damn, I'd forgotten that! Thanks mate ! 


...And Dan, in my opinion, if ya wanna enter the D-9 go for it! Be nice to see her finished!

BTW, I have various RD markings for the FW 190D-9, Me 262, and Bf 109G-10 in 1:72 (aswell as various staffel emblems).
If anyone needs any for the build, let us know.


----------



## Airframes (Dec 26, 2008)

Nice offer,A4K, I can add a few 1/72nd JG badges, as seen on the post about decals for Dan; some are possibly a bit overscale, and would work for 1/48th too.
Back to Dan's Dilemma; can't see why you (or anyone) can't enter more than one model, in different scale categories. Be nice to see your Dora, and the 1/48th JG77 bird. BTW Dan, first, I've got a B&W pic of the latter, from the same book, if it will help. Second, how do you rate the Academy G14 kit? I've done 3 of their 1/48th kits so far, P47, P38 and F86, and they were all excellent, especially value for money wise. Be handy to know, as I intend doing a batch of different 109's some time in the future.


----------



## Airframes (Dec 26, 2008)

Just looked at the rest of your post Jan, covering the Peddinghaus stuff. Boy, have they got a good range! I must find the patience to look at their web-site properly - it always seems just a little cumbersome and rather slow, even with translation. Problem is, it would be very easy to get carried away, and spend far to many beer tokens on decals!!


----------



## 109ROAMING (Dec 26, 2008)

Awesome profiles Terry and unit badges Jan!8)


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 26, 2008)

Well,first of all....timewise for this groupbuild, it was mentioned I think earlier, when I first put this thingy out, that it would cover any kind of machines in the defence of the Reich from the beginning of Operation Bodenplatte January 1 '45 to VE-Day. But as we went along I think it was said to include same as before, any flying machines in the defence of the Reich, but from '43 to VE-Day instead, that way it'd give a wider range of possible prototypes to build, which I think is great and Luftwaffe was pretty much on the defence from then on anyway....
Also, as Dan and Terry's been talking about entering Lord Whoopass' JV44 kite, that should be alright, as it isn't finished. Any else in the same seat can do the same I think, as I feel that it could spur people to finish that certain model that's been collecting dust in the corner, so any other with unfinished kits out there, enter them into the groupbuild as well and get them finished...
You could also enter as many models as you want and feel that you can finish before VE-Day, May 7th 2009, may it be 1, 2, 3 or more...and in any scale too, 1/144, 1/72, 1/48 etc....even 1/1 if you can afford it! 8) 
Anykind of dioramas would be nice to see as well I think personally, so get in there....would do one myself, but I'm too *green* yet, so I'll leave that for later and let the pros do their thing, do their stuff....
Those that would like to have a friendly wee competition, let's leave that to the pros as well to make up a few guidelines or "rules" and classes, to get things running smoothly....

Anyone else that have ideas...?


----------



## muller (Dec 26, 2008)

I'm thinking of going with a 1/48 JU-88 G-6 nightfighter version, that 1/24 190 looks a bit daunting! I might try building the bird that landed in Ireland on May 3, 1945. The 3 Luftwaffe crew escaped/defected from Denmark, I'm trying to find pics, I saw some online a while ago.


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 26, 2008)

Alright, cool guys, Im in with my Dora then....


----------



## Airframes (Dec 26, 2008)

I knew there'd be a way to get you to finish that bird....!!!


----------



## Lucky13 (Dec 27, 2008)

Large enough bait old boy....large enough bait!


----------



## Wayne Little (Dec 27, 2008)

....ok Dan in the starting blocks then!


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 27, 2008)

Just finished up the camo on the wings... I tried to do the motteling like u did for ur wing camo on Siegfrieds A-9 Wayne, and my airbrush just didnt cooperate... It kept on hanging up where I'd release the trigger and the air/paint kept coming out, then slowly would stop.... I cleaned it out real good, including soaking the parts in thinner...

And it still did it, so I went and painted it like I know how... Ill post some pics up once she dries out some and I can remove the masking...


----------



## Airframes (Dec 27, 2008)

Looking forward to those Dan. Good to see the incentive has kicked in, and the bird is progressing.


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 27, 2008)

Guys... we need to consolidate our Group Build threads. Can we close one or the other? And if not, let's properly name them to reflect (1) basis for Group Build 2009 and (2) Group Build 2009 Participant Subjects... or some such.


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

Trying to get confirmation on the Group Project nam Matt.... Operation Air Bridge in German is???

The online translators I used dont translate the word Operation into German....


----------



## Njaco (Dec 28, 2008)

> Also, as Dan and Terry's been talking about entering Lord Whoopass' JV44 kite, that should be alright, as it isn't finished. Any else in the same seat can do the same I think, as I feel that it could spur people to finish that certain model that's been collecting dust in the corner, so any other with unfinished kits out there, enter them into the groupbuild as well and get them finished...



As long as the bloody canopy ain't the last thing they gotta do!


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

OK, got the name correctly? figured out thanks to Jaco.... Unternehman Luftbrücke means Undertake Air Bridge, which will be the new thread name for all entry listings and discussions........


----------



## Marcel (Dec 28, 2008)

lesofprimus said:


> OK, got the name correctly? figured out thanks to Jaco.... Unternehman Luftbrücke means Undertake Air Bridge, which will be the new thread name for all entry listings and discussions........



Little correction, Les, should be "Unternehmung"?


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

Unternehmen means Undertake while Unternehmung means Enterprise.... I think Unternehmen fits better Marcel....


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

The new thread has been made and is ready for the entrants proposed builds, questions and discussions....

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/mo...bridge-ww2aircraft-net-group-build-16147.html


----------



## Njaco (Dec 28, 2008)

That is a great suggestion by Matt...

Dan, here is what I've found so far regarding 1/48 decals. If you like , let me know and I can send them. Anybody else see something they want I can do the same. Also have a few 1/72 as well.


----------



## lesofprimus (Dec 28, 2008)

Hey Chris, I definatly want the three sheets u got up there, the ones that have Blue 22, Black 10 and Red 22.... I'll PM u with my address if thats cool....


----------



## Njaco (Dec 28, 2008)

No prob. Just put a good word about me to the judges! 

The blue 22 only has that one numerial - I think my youngest scoffed it for a P-51D he did.

Man, I love this new camera and scanner!!


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 28, 2008)

All future posts made regarding this subject should be made here.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/mo...ircraft-net-group-build-16147.html#post434214

Thread closed.


----------

