# OUTRAGE! Needless freezing death of a WWII veteran!



## evangilder (Jan 29, 2009)

> BAY CITY, Mich. – When neighbors went inside Marvin Schur's house, the windows were frosted over, icicles hung from a faucet, and the 93-year-old World War II veteran lay dead on the bedroom floor in a winter jacket over four layers of clothing.
> 
> He froze to death — slowly and painfully, authorities say — days after the electric company installed a power-limiting device because of more than $1,000 in unpaid bills.



Full story below:
Freezing death of Mich. man in house sparks anger - Yahoo! News

A man who fought for this country is killed by his local electric company. Unbelievable.


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## seesul (Jan 29, 2009)

'' Bay City Electric Light Power did not contact Schur face-to-face to notify him of the device and explain how it works, instead following its usual policy by leaving a note on the door. But neighbors said Schur rarely, if ever, left the house in the cold.''

Shame on the company- I don´t belive they didn´t know about his age!


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## GrauGeist (Jan 29, 2009)

The Electric company should be held responsable for that, especially this time of year.

The fact that he was elderly, and on a fixed income should have placed him on a special rate, anyway.


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## seesul (Jan 29, 2009)

My Journey - 93 year-old World War II Veteran froze-to-death in home 

Posted by Archbishop Gregory Godsey on January 28, 2009

Marvin Schur. You may not know Mr. Schur, but the World War II veteran is dead today at the age of 93. And normally that would be the end of the story.

Mr. Schur froze-to-death in his Michigan home this week. We are not talking about getting a little cold and contracting pneumonia. No, he literally froze-to-death.

Bay City Electric Light Power installed a limiter on his power meter days before he was found dead. They installed it because he owed $1000 in unpaid power bills. After 50 or so years of paying on time, no one at the power company thought to call and check on him when his payment was late. Furthermore, when they installed the limiter, no one took the time to talk to Mr. Schur about why they were installing the limiter or how to reset it if it tripped.

Instead, they left him a note on the door. On the door of a 93 year old World War II veteran. On the door outside in the -9 degree to 12 degree weather. On the door where he would not see it because he would be staying indoors to stay out of the weather.

It was not a case of Mr. Schur not having the money to pay the bill. Quite the opposite, he told his nephew that he had $600,000 in savings and when police entered his house (called to the scene by neighbors) they found his bills stacked on the table with the money clipped to them. It was either a case of being unable to go pay the bills or that he simple began to slip and forgot about them.

But the power company and the City Manager, Robert Belleman, seem to think that this was entirely Mr. Schur and his neighbors fault. “I’ve said this before and some of my colleagues have said this: Neighbors need to keep an eye on neighbors,” Belleman said. “When they think there’s something wrong, they should contact the appropriate agency or city department.” (1)

What? The power company has staff to call and notify people that they are late. Not a single one called Mr. Schur. They had a tech out at his home to install the limiter. It was too much work to knock on the door and speak to Mr. Schur. Remember, the tech was standing at the door to put the note on it!

And yet it is not the fault of the power company, but rather it is the fault of the neighbors that this happened?!?

If it were not for the neighbors, his body would not have been found for weeks or even months. They got concerned when they had not seen him in a few days and went to check on him. So what do you want? Neighbors knocking on his door daily doing your job???

If the power company had done their job, this man would still be alive. I personally believe that they should never limit peoples power or shut it off if the temperature is below freezing or above 100 degrees. But that is where greed comes into the picture. The power company wants its money and they do not care who they kill to get it.

Will Bay City Electric Light Power cancel his bill now that he is dead? No! They will demand payment from his estate! They killed the man and now they will want to be paid for doing him the honor.

And as a neighbor pointed out, we charge people with a crime who leave their animals out in the freezing weather resulting in their death. But how much you want to bet that not a single thing is done to those at Bay City Electric Light Power that were involved in the murder of Mr. Schur?

I believe everyone at Bay City Electric Light Power involved in this case should be charged with involuntary manslaughter at the very least. If I had my way, they would all be charged with Murder 2, depraved indifference to human life.

Take a moment if you can to go and read about what Mr. Schur went through during his last days on this earth. And then, take a moment to pray for him and others like him.

And don’t forget to check on that neighbor who has no one else to check in on them. We can all do our part to prevent this from happening again!


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## seesul (Jan 29, 2009)

Marvin Schur was a medic in the South Pacific and earned a Purple Heart.
I couldn´t find anything else about his WW2 duties...


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## rochie (Jan 29, 2009)

absolutely disgraceful


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## Wayne Little (Jan 29, 2009)

Absolutely agree....F*cking disgraceful.....

....hope you can rest in peace Mr. Schur..


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## lesofprimus (Jan 29, 2009)

He aint gonna rest in peace... He's gonna haunt the souls of those buracratic as*hats who decided his life and service were irrelevant and make them suffer years of torment...

Or atleast I can hope that he will get some sort of justice in the afterworld....


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## Gnomey (Jan 29, 2009)

Disgraceful. The power company should certainly be held accountable.


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## evangilder (Jan 29, 2009)

It really angered me when I read that he was not only a recipient of the purple heart, but a medic. Ask anyone who has ever been in harm's way and they will tell you that the medic is likely the bravest mofo in the unit.


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## seesul (Jan 29, 2009)

Eric, what does mofo mean?


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## evangilder (Jan 29, 2009)

Sorry, Roman, it's the shortened version of motherf*cker.


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## Wildcat (Jan 29, 2009)

What a f*cking disgrace! I hope heads roll for this!


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## evangilder (Jan 29, 2009)

At the very least, Bay City Manager Robert Belleman deserves to lose his job. But he and the chain of command for the utility worker that only left a note on the door should all be brought up on charges of negligent homicide or manslaughter.



> Bay City Manager Robert Belleman said that he was "deeply saddened" by Schur's death and that State Police will investigate. But he also said _neighbors have a responsibility to each other_.



As do utility companies have responsibilities to not KILL their customers. What kind of greed drives a company to shut off power to someone's home in freezing temperatures?!


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## Njaco (Jan 29, 2009)

Murder. Absolute murder!



> But the power company and the City Manager, Robert Belleman, seem to think that this was entirely Mr. Schur and his neighbors fault.



and this, gentlemen, is the reason why everything is so poor now with the economy and such. This is the attitude that we are dealing with. Totally, heartless disconcern for your fellow human being. Just all about the money. To go through what Mr. Schur did in his service to be finally done in by a buraecratic Ahole is murder!


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## seesul (Jan 29, 2009)

evangilder said:


> Sorry, Roman, it's the shortened version of motherf*cker.



You don´t need to say sorry, I´m learning...


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## Heinz (Jan 29, 2009)

Simply pathetic.


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## seesul (Jan 29, 2009)

Njaco said:


> Murder. Absolute murder!
> and this, gentlemen, is the reason why everything is so poor now with the economy and such. This is the attitude that we are dealing with. Totally, heartless disconcern for your fellow human being. Just all about the money. To go through what Mr. Schur did in his service to be finally done in by a buraecratic Ahole is murder!



Yep, absolutely! Only a money counter can say such a bullshit. I wanna know Mr. Belleman´s statement if the frozen poor guy was his grandpa! OMG


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## ToughOmbre (Jan 29, 2009)

Disgraceful!

I hope those responsible rot in hell!

TO


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## Colin1 (Jan 29, 2009)

ToughOmbre said:


> Disgraceful!
> 
> I hope those responsible rot in hell!
> 
> TO


It is pretty grotesque
such is the charm of capitalism - everything driven by money 
and look where money's driven us - global financial meltdown

Cold-blooded and heartless, he was there in the system's hour of need; where was the system in his hour of need?


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Jan 29, 2009)

Disgusting, when did money become more important then human life?! I do hope the company gets charged with at least manslaughter.


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## wilbur1 (Jan 29, 2009)

Vassili Zaitzev said:


> Disgusting, when did money become more important then human life?! I do hope the company gets charged with at least manslaughter.



Hopefully they get charged with a lot more than that


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 29, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> It is pretty grotesque
> such is the charm of capitalism - everything driven by money
> and look where money's driven us - global financial meltdown
> 
> Cold-blooded and heartless, he was there in the system's hour of need; where was the system in his hour of need?



I don't think this tragedy has anything to do with the "evils of capitalism" or the current global financial situation. It has everything to do with a cold and rigid utility company that operates more like a robot than a company that is supposed to provide a service to the people.

Despite this tragedy (and others like this) I'd take capitalism over any other type of system this planet has to offer....


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## Airframes (Jan 29, 2009)

Absolutely disgraceful, and a ing way to treat any human being, more so an elderly veteran. Let those responisible sit in a freezer for a few hours, and hope they have this on their minds for the rest of their lives.


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## Colin1 (Jan 29, 2009)

FLYBOYJ said:


> I don't think this tragedy has anything to do with the "evils of capitalism" or the current global financial situation. It has everything to do with a cold and rigid utility company that operates more like a robot than a company that is supposed to provide a service to the people.
> 
> Despite this tragedy (and others like this) I'd take capitalism over any other type of system this planet has to offer....


Didn't mention the 'evils of capitalism' Joe
just the more-than-occasional heartlessness of it; I also think there's a link to the larger-scale problems we're having but you're right insofar as it's probably discourse for another debate.
This tragedy was driven by money, the whole issue revolved around non-payment and the consequent installation of a device whose operation wasn't explained to him and that, by the sounds of it, he didn't even know was there.
They should have looked at the issue of non-payment before the incident, instead of asking themselves why they didn't after it, a computer check should have revealed his age and a softer line could have been taken ie the age of this guy, the weather we're (you're) having and coming up with a solution that fitted the problem.


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## ToughOmbre (Jan 29, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> It is pretty grotesque
> such is the charm of capitalism - everything driven by money
> and look where money's driven us - global financial meltdown



Joe is right Colin. This tragic episode has nothing to do with capitalism. 

And the "global financial meltdown' has not been caused by capitalism. Mis-management, incompetance, fraud, greed, ignorant lenders, clueless borrowers, lack of government regulation, too much government regulation, etc. have caused most of our economic problems. 

The villain here is the utility company.

TO


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## Colin1 (Jan 29, 2009)

ToughOmbre said:


> Joe is right Colin. This tragic episode has nothing to do with capitalism.
> 
> And the "global financial meltdown' has not been caused by capitalism. Mis-management, incompetance, fraud, greed, ignorant lenders, clueless borrowers, lack of government regulation, too much government regulation, etc. have caused most of our economic problems.
> 
> The villain here is the utility company


TO
I think it has, maybe I'm seeing it from another angle.

'incompetence, fraud, greed, ignorant lenders, clueless borrowers'

Those sound like the shortcomings of capitalism to me, it was the incompetence and greed of a profit-driven company that led to the trip device being installed before thinking it through.

Joe, TO
I don't really want to comment further on why that is, because the theme of the thread is far more important and tragic than why I think what I think. 
By the way, I too think capitalism is the only viable system on the planet but sometimes it really needs to stop and look at itself.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 29, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> Didn't mention the 'evils of capitalism' Joe
> just the more-than-occasional heartlessness of it; I also think there's a link to the larger-scale problems we're having but you're right insofar as it's probably discourse for another debate.


As a Russian friend once told me, "Capitalism rewards those who work hard and makes the best of the system but is incredibly cruel to the lazy and disadvantaged."


Colin1 said:


> This tragedy was driven by money, the whole issue revolved around non-payment and the consequent installation of a device whose operation wasn't explained to him and that, by the sounds of it, he didn't even know was there.


While you are also correct there was nothing in place indicating to the utility that this man might of been incapable of taking care of his affairs. I doubt that would have made a difference but in some states there are instruments in place to look into similar situations


Colin1 said:


> They should have looked at the issue of non-payment before the incident, instead of asking themselves why they didn't after it, a computer check should have revealed his age and a softer line could have been taken ie the age of this guy, the weather we're (you're) having and coming up with a solution that fitted the problem.


Perhaps...

BTW my parents are 81 and 87 respectively. My dad has Alzheimer’s and my mom has medical and emotional problems that have rendered her incapable of doing any financial transactions. My sister and I take care of all their financial affairs. It seems this poor man had a nephew but no one else to look after him, that's the real problem and tragedy.


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## RabidAlien (Jan 29, 2009)

Somebody, somewhere at the power company needs to be shot.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 29, 2009)

Terrible, absolutely terrible!


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## Trebor (Jan 30, 2009)

I showed this article to another forum I'm on, and I could not believe the kind of comments I saw! it's like they said he deserved it!


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Jan 30, 2009)

Trebor said:


> I showed this article to another forum I'm on, and I could not believe the kind of comments I saw! it's like they said he deserved it!



Wait, which forum?!


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## Trebor (Jan 30, 2009)

WWII veteran froze to death in his own home - The Lion King Fan Art Message Board


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Jan 30, 2009)

Trebor said:


> WWII veteran froze to death in his own home - The Lion King Fan Art Message Board



Thanks, I'm gonna take a look.


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## KrazyKraut (Jan 30, 2009)

That is one artsy fartsy forum right there.

The man died and the company is to blame. Period. You don't leave a 93 year old man in the cold this time of the year. And it doesn't matter if he's a purple heart recipient or not.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Jan 30, 2009)

Those power company guys better remember that this 93 year old veteran protected US power companies when the Nazi's were taking over the world! 


The owner of this company should be fired first rate on the double.


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## tomo pauk (Jan 30, 2009)

How about a big fat fee to be paid from some private pockets (the bosses of a company I mean). It won't revive the poor vet, but it would teach a lesson or two...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 30, 2009)

Look what kind of forum it is...

They judge us because this is a WW2 forum, that is pretty lame if you ask me (I hope they are reading this as well).

I do not think anyone here would think any differently if the elderly man had never served in the military. It is a tragedy period, and never should have happened.


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## KrazyKraut (Jan 30, 2009)

Exactly. However if you are a "lefty" and just skim over the thread, you might conclude this was just a typical "conservative" military forum that wants to see a head roll.

Just like I think they are a typical narcisstic wannabe-artists forum that put black and white pictures of themselves in their avatars and like the smell of their own farts.


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## Messy1 (Jan 30, 2009)

It is a tragedy on so many levels. First because of the power company canceling his service. Second, because someone should have been checking on this man. There may be more people to blame than just the power company alone, but it is none the less, a terrible way to die that should/could have been avoided. Maybe a neighbor could have taken his payment in for him or mailed it. It's too late now, and matters little. It is such a waste of as human life, and a terrible way to leave this world.
I think here in Iowa, a bill was passed several years ago that prohibits utility company's from shutting off service to people who are unable to pay their bills. I do not know if Iowa's utility Company's use a limiter or not though.


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## GrauGeist (Jan 30, 2009)

First off, Trebor, you will never get your point across in that forum. The "lead" poster there is clearly into her self-enlightened opinion, and has minions sucking up to her. If she thought it was a horrible tragedy, and the power company should be burned to the ground, all the mouth-peices in that forum would be yelling "here here!" and applauding her sentiments.

The bottom line is, that 93 year old suffered in silence and it should not have happened. The power company should have known because utility companies have a customer's personal information (Social Security Number, Date of Birth, Driver's Lisense Number, etc). If they placed a limiter on there, they most likely had to make contact with the gentleman to do so. I have never seen a power company come out to an address and not knock at the door before leaving a notice. They do place notices before they change service arrangements. I'm pretty sure that's mandatory, per the Public Utilities Commission.

The difference between this forum, and that forum is that we all have a common interest in a hard reality that is military history and yes, we'll take particular interest in a tragedy like this. Because there's a vast majority of folks here that know what that man went through during his service, and we above-all appreciate what he did and won't just offer up lame-assed excuses as to why it was his own fault and that the media just made it worse than it really was.

He deserves better than that.


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## evangilder (Jan 30, 2009)

Here here, Graugeist. From what I have read, he was a loner, aside from his wife. But anyone who has been in a combat zone knows the horrors of war. Having been a medic in the Pacific as he was, there were probably unimaginable horrors that he was exposed to, which could very well have led to his being a loner.

He was estranged from at least one of his nephews and they both lived outside of the state, so it would not have been possible for them to check up on him every day. How many of you talk to an uncle on a frequent basis?

The power company is supposed to show the occupant of the home how to reset the limiter. They did not. Leaving the note on the door is ridiculous as a cop out. How many of you leave your house through the garage and don't open your front door for days? I do, and I can't see my front door from the driveway. So if a note was stuck to MY front door, it will likely not be seen for at least a few days.

He had the money for the bill to pay, and somehow didn't. Why is unknown, but considering that the man was 93, one can surmise that the memory is not what it used to be. Did the power company ever call him? 

So why is being a WWII veteran so important? Well, if you don't know the answer to that question, perhaps you need to pick up a freaking history book and realize that if it weren't for people like him, the world would be a much more evil place. Also considering that he was a medic AND a recipient of a purple heart, the man is a hero, although I would bet he would deny being a hero. Heroes like that don't deserve to freeze to death in their own home.

But even taking the veteran/medic/medals out of the formula, a lonely old man died because a power company installed a device to shut off his power after a measured amount of usage, didn't tell him about it, AND did not show him how it to reset it. THAT is at the very least, criminal negligence, period.


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## Njaco (Jan 31, 2009)

Those on that forum don't understand that it was because of people like that 93 yr old vet, that they get to have a forum to bitch about and talk about the different uses of pretty colors. Shame.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Jan 31, 2009)

Njaco said:


> Those on that forum don't understand that it was because of people like that 93 yr old vet, that they get to have a forum to bitch about and talk about the different uses of pretty colors. Shame.



True, but don't tell them that Njaco, they'll b!tch about that too.


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## Trebor (Jan 31, 2009)

don't worry, I've been on that forum since 2005, and It's been going downhill, recently. I've been considering leaving it.


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## seesul (Jan 31, 2009)

evangilder said:


> But even taking the veteran/medic/medals out of the formula, a lonely old man died because a power company installed a device to shut off his power after a measured amount of usage, didn't tell him about it, AND did not show him how it to reset it. THAT is at the very least, criminal negligence, period.



Very true...unfortunately...


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Jan 31, 2009)

Trebor said:


> don't worry, I've been on that forum since 2005, and It's been going downhill, recently. I've been considering leaving it.



That bad, is it like the IMDB boards? I have an account there, and they're are a lot of trolls there.


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## Trebor (Feb 1, 2009)

there's a lot of assholes there. never realized it till just like around '06.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 1, 2009)

That forum cracks me up! Some of those people on there, are lacking in the history of WW2.

I still think it is funny though that they judge us for being a WW2 forum and call us biased. Of course we are. We care about the dignity, respect and lives of the veterans who served in that war (and any war). 

Then some of them go on and make assumptions about veterans.


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## jwalraven (Feb 1, 2009)

Thanks to Trebor, I see that this forum exists.

It seems I am one in the unpopular minority over there but a lot of those members are stubborn and rude and can't seem to see past what I say over there. Most of it stems from them being teenagers and cultural differences. 

I just want to say that if you look at my posts over there (same name and avatar) that yes this man's death was wrong and for the fact that he was WWII field medic makes it worse. The electric company is to blame because of their policies and putting the limiter on the meter when the temperatures were already in the danger zone.


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## GrauGeist (Feb 1, 2009)

Thanks for stopping by, jwalraven and yes we did notice your posts.

People's points of view can be many, and they are entitled to them. And the fact that they can offer up thier opinions, right or wrong, without persecution is directly connected to that unfortunate 93 year old man and countless others like him.

The fact that he died alone, in silence regardless of who was to blame is a sad testiment to our society, who has come to take personal liberties and freedoms for granted. It was in the past, and in some places today, very dangerous to be a free-thinker, an educated person or an artist who spoke thier minds or tried to express free-will. They would be rounded up and chances were extremely slim that they would survive thier ordeal. 

It was because of our veterans that toed the line and stopped the Axis nations dead in thier tracks, that we enjoy a free society today. And as a WWII forum, we are grounded in that time period where our liberties were in jeopardy and we understand what it took to defeat the Axis and who did it, and when and where.

This man risked his life in the midst of combat to aid wounded soldiers. Medics literally dodged bullets and schrapnel so that they could perform thier duties and that makes him a far bigger hero in my book because that takes a certain kind of devotion to thier fellow man.

That is why we pay the respects due that medic and his brothers and would expect at least a little respect from people who may not know these old veterans, but have a debt to them all the same.


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## Njaco (Feb 1, 2009)

Welcome to the forum, raven!

I don't think a forum dedicated to anime' or sports cars or whatever will understand what the passions are of a WWII forum. Thats fine.

But take away any facts about the man being a vet and you have a man who froze to death because a large entity failed in looking at him as even a human being. And when some - like on that forum - believe it was his fault, i.e., "he had the money..", "he should have known better", "I thought he was handicapped..." something is wrong.

People with an artistic flair and appreciation come from a position of passion. Where is the passion for someone who died? Needlessly?


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## jwalraven (Feb 1, 2009)

Thanks for the warm welcomes guys!

I probably came off as a total bitch to them but I know what I am talking about. I'm not just some artsy fartsy person on there. 

I think a lot of it comes from me growing up in a military town, being AFJROTC and a bit of college ROTC. I tried to do the military thing but it wasn't for me. However, my husband is close to commissioning into the AF so I will be one of those AF wives. 

Anyway back on topic on this hero's death. It is still showing that it was the electric companies fault. This policy with the meter limiters is just plain wrong. Epona (one that is on our side) has found another instance where limiters were used and no communication was used in telling the customer. 
Bay City woman says she had little info about 'limiter ' placed on her meter - Bay City News - The Latest News, Blogs, Photos Videos – MLive.com


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 1, 2009)

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for giving us your take and opinion on the matter.


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## GrauGeist (Feb 1, 2009)

Thanks for posting that, jwalraven.

It makes you wonder how many other seniors and families that have fallen on hard times have suffered in harsh winters...

There clearly needs to be a solution for this, just not sure what that might be at this point in time.


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## proton45 (Feb 2, 2009)

That shouldn't have happened to anyone...after all thats what he fought for. A fair and respectful standard of living for us all. Its ing that he should have died in such an undignified (and preventable) way...sad.

I don't know who's at fault here...was it the power company who sets the "policy"? Or the poor schmuck who's job it was to put the limiter on the house? If I had to cut peoples power off day after day I would get tired of listen to people pleading with me to leave the electrics on...how long could you listen to sob story after sob story before you would just want to "check out"?


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## fly boy (Feb 2, 2009)

ok what the hell


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## wilbur1 (Feb 2, 2009)

Read the whole article flyboy then youll understand


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## Konigstiger205 (Feb 2, 2009)

I didn't took the time to read all the posts, but the story itself is just :....I mean, how could this happen, its just not normal. Unfortunately, unless people start "shouting", the a**holes responsible for this murder will get away.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Feb 2, 2009)

Konigstiger205 said:


> I didn't took the time to read all the posts, but the story itself is just :....I mean, how could this happen, its just not normal. Unfortunately, unless people start "shouting", the a**holes responsible for this murder will get away.



I guess that's what happens when greed takes over, human life is not important as filling your pockets. In my opinion, the whole thing could have been avoided had the power company called the man about the bills. That, or show him how the limiter works, instead of installing it with only a note on the door.


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## Konigstiger205 (Feb 3, 2009)

Vassili Zaitzev said:


> I guess that's what happens when greed takes over, human life is not important as filling your pockets. In my opinion, the whole thing could have been avoided had the power company called the man about the bills. That, or show him how the limiter works, instead of installing it with only a note on the door.



It's like leaving a note on the windshield of your car saying that the brakes don't work...


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Feb 3, 2009)

Konigstiger205 said:


> It's like leaving a note on the windshield of your car saying that the brakes don't work...



Absolutely!


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## Colin1 (Feb 5, 2009)

A quick update on the situation

WWII vet frozen to death leaves estate to hospital - CNN.com


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## evangilder (Feb 5, 2009)

Thanks for that update Colin1.


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## Njaco (Feb 5, 2009)

Thanks Colin.

Amazing! The State forbids private companies from turning off the power but government entities can! ...............................


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 5, 2009)

Anyone else read any of that stuff on the other forum?

It is really funny, it has turned into a kinder garden now!


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## GrauGeist (Feb 6, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Anyone else read any of that stuff on the other forum?
> 
> It is really funny, it has turned into a kinder garden now!



OMG...you got that right!!


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## Njaco (Feb 8, 2009)

Ohhhh, my eyes and ears are bleeding!!!!!

Here is where the world is heading to:

"Its nobody's fault!!!!!!"

I can't go any further without being banned. 

Oh, that just hurt.


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## Lucky13 (Feb 8, 2009)

I read all the posts on the other forum.... 
You know that my language can sometimes get somewhat, well, you know....infected, so I'm just gonna say that I found it "interesting". 
Nonetheless, that this WWII hero died because of the chill, I'd say is in the fault of the company. WHO in their right mind install limiters in elderly peoples homes in the winter?

Disgraceful to say the least!


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