# An Me-262 In Japan



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 27, 2006)

Syscom Came accross a great site, in it it had a photo of a Me-262 as Atsugi Airbase after the war. Does anyone have any information on this? 

http://www.flyingknights.net/ejspark/sparky10.htm







Here's the site:


Notice the P-80 in the background!


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## evangilder (Jan 27, 2006)

I do know that a couple of examples were supplied to Japan. They build a similar aircraft called the Kikka (Orange Blossom), made by Nakajima.
Pictures can be found here:
http://www.ijnafpics.com/jbwkikka1.htm

An interesting writeup about them is here:
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/kikka.html


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## Gnomey (Jan 27, 2006)

Interesting stuff, I never knew about an Me-262 in Japan.


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## Glider (Jan 27, 2006)

Yes. It wasn't an ME262 obviously based on the design but the engines were very different. I have an article somewhere I will have to dig out. Going from memory the engines were a lot less powerful and its top speed was around 450-480. Only one prototype was built and I think it flew literally weeks before the end of the war.

Will dig around and see what I can find.


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## evangilder (Jan 27, 2006)

Look at the link I posted above about the info, Glider.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 27, 2006)

Good info Eric. I was aware of Kikka but if you look at this one it clearly looks like a Me-262, I'm wondering if this got there by sub and was used as a pattern aircraft.


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 27, 2006)

There was a project for a "japanese" Me-262 that is a heavier and better armed aircraft than the Kikka, that was the Nakajima Ki-201 Karyu ( Fire Dragon ). 











http://j-aircraft.org/xplanes/hikoki_files/ki201.html

It dont progress further than a drawing and mocke-up, I think that Me-262 was captured in Germany and then exposed in Japan.


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## me262 (Jan 27, 2006)

CharlesBronson said:


> I think that Me-262 was captured in Germany and then exposed in Japan.


i agree with you , also note that is a 2 seater, probably a trainer, and if i can remember well , the jap jet was only a single seater and smaller than the me 262


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 27, 2006)

me262 said:


> CharlesBronson said:
> 
> 
> > I think that Me-262 was captured in Germany and then exposed in Japan.
> ...



I don't believe that in the Post war years the US would bring an Me-262 to Japan just for the hell of it, there has to be more to this!!!!

If you follow the link TSgt. Etsyl Sparkman shows photos on Okinawa and then on the mainland, Atsugi is just to the south west of Tokyo and during the war was a major JAAF base. Obvously he was there as part of the occupation force.


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## me262 (Jan 28, 2006)

to tell you the truth i beggin to cast doubt on that pic, because according to the book me 262 stormbird raisng by hugh morgan :
by 1947 this plane was outlive its usefull life and was put on display with other equipment in the washington memorial, the emblem on the nose was the watson's whizzers emblem but had the erroneous slogan der schwalbe painted in the nose, it was alocated the technical intelligence number T-2- 610 and was last seen in the cornell university in the 50's, after which was presumably scrapped.
so i think someone did a photo montage and make that story
now gunther rall was invited by the usaf to train american pilots in jet planes in case the war prolonged more, but rall decline stating that it was not honorable to fight former friend, the japs.


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## KraziKanuK (Jan 28, 2006)

The photo was taken in Aug 1948 at a display of captured a/c in Washington DC. The 262 is FE-610, _Ole Fruit Cake_, originally WNr 110306.

The P-80 in the background is 485461.

One can see another pic of this a/c on pg 847 of the Classic 262 series.


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## syscom3 (Jan 28, 2006)

Good work Krazi.


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## delcyros (Jan 28, 2006)

Agreed, it´s a german one, no doubt.
The wing configuration of Me-262 and Kikka differs a lot and this can be seen here (japanese designers redesigned the wing with much reduced wing sweep), not to speak of the details at the canopy.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 28, 2006)

KraziKanuK said:


> The photo was taken in Aug 1948 at a display of captured a/c in Washington DC. The 262 is FE-610, _Ole Fruit Cake_, originally WNr 110306.
> 
> The P-80 in the background is 485461.
> 
> One can see another pic of this a/c on pg 847 of the Classic 262 series.



Yeap thats it. Here is some more info that I have on it:

During WWII, the U.S. Army Air Forces (USAAF) Intelligence Service sent teams to Europe to gain access to enemy aircraft, technical and scientific reports, research facilities, and weapons for study in the US The Air Technical Intelligence (ATI) teams, trained at the Technical Intelligence School at Wright Field, Ohio, collected enemy equipment to learn about Germany’s technical developments. The ATI teams competed with 32 allied technical intelligence groups to gain information and equipment recovered from crash sites. As the war concluded, the various intelligence teams, including the ATI, shifted from tactical intelligence to post hostilities investigations. Exploitation intelligence increased dramatically. 
On April 22, 1945, the USAAF combined technical and post-hostilities intelligence objectives under the Exploitation Division with the code name LUSTY. Operation LUSTY began with the aim of exploiting captured German scientific documents, research facilities, and aircraft. The Operation had two teams. One, under the leadership of Colonel Harold E. Watson, a former Wright Field test pilot, collected enemy aircraft and weapons for further examination in the US The other recruited scientists, collected documents, and investigated facilities. Having been part of ATI in 1944, Colonel Watson eagerly accepted the Operation LUSTY assignment. 

WATSON'S "WHIZZERS" 

In 1944, intelligence experts at Wright Field had developed lists of advanced aviation equipment they wanted to examine. Colonel Watson and his crew, nicknamed "Watson's Whizzers," comprised of pilots, engineers, and maintenance men, used these "Black Lists" to collect aircraft. He organized his "Whizzers" into two sections: one collected jet aircraft and the other procured piston engine aircraft and nonflyable jet and rocket equipment. 
After the war, the "Whizzers" added Luftwaffe test pilots to their team. One was Hauptman Heinz Braur. On May 8, 1945, Braur flew 70 women, children, and wounded troops to Munich-Riem airport. After he landed, Braur was approached by one of Watson's men who gave him the choice of either going to a prison camp or flying with the "Whizzers." Braur thought flying more preferable. Three Messerschmitt employees also joined the "Whizzers:" Karl Baur, the Chief Test Pilot of Experimental Aircraft; test pilot Ludwig "Willie" Huffman; and engineering superintendent, Gerhard Coulis. Test pilot Herman Kersting joined later. When the "Whizzers" located nine Me 262 jet aircraft at Lechfeld airfield, these German test pilots had the expertise to fly them. 

Watson's men traveled far and wide over Europe by jeep and occasionally by air to find the aircraft on the "Black Lists." Once found, they had to be shipped to the US Fortunately, the British were willing to loan the aircraft carrier HMS Reaper. The most viable harbor for docking the carrier and loading the various aircraft was at Cherbourg, France. The "Whizzers" flew the Me 262s and other aircraft from Lechfeld to St. Dizier, to Melun, and then to Cherbourg. All the aircraft were cocooned against the salt air and weather, loaded onto the carrier, and brought to the US where they were studied by the Air Intelligence groups of both the USAAF and Navy. 

DISPOSITION OF FOREIGN EQUIPMENT 
In 1945, the enemy aircraft shipped to the US were divided between the Navy and the Army Air Forces. General Hap Arnold ordered the preservation of one of every type of aircraft used by the enemy forces. The Air Force brought their aircraft to Wright Field, and when the field could no longer handle additional aircraft, many were sent to Freeman Field, Seymour, Indiana. In the end, Operation LUSTY collectors had acquired 16,280 items (6,200 tons) to be examined by intelligence personnel who selected 2,398 separate items for technical analysis. Forty-seven personnel were engaged in the identification, inspection, and warehousing of captured foreign equipment. 

In 1946, when Freeman Field was scheduled to close, Air Technical Service Command (ATSC) had to move the aircraft. The larger aircraft were sent to Davis-Monthan Field, Tucson, Arizona, and the fighter aircraft sent to the Special Depot, Park Ridge, Illinois (now O'hare airport) which was under the control of ATSC's Office of Intelligence. The Special Depot occupied buildings that Douglas Airplane Company had used to build C-54 aircraft. The aircraft were stored in these two locations until they could be disposed of in accordance with General Arnold's order. 

With the start of the Korean War in 1950, the Air Force needed the Special Depot; so the aircraft had to be moved outside. In 1953, some of the aircraft were moved to the National Air and Space Museum in Silver Hill, Maryland, and the remaining aircraft were scrapped. (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/lusty.htm)

A Brief Introduction 
Watsons Whizzers was a popular name given to the group of pilots, engineers and maintenance men who worked under Colonel Harold E Watson to perform "Project Lusty", the retrieval of German aircraft engines and other aviation equipment for shipment and study in the US. 

After servicing, the Me262'a were renamed by the Watson Whizzer pilots as well as given identity numbers in the series 000, 111, 222 etc. After 999 had been reached a new series of numbers was started with 101. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
code/type/W.Nr./unit code/details 
000 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a/U4 - V-083 - named "Wilma Jean" and then "Happy Hunter II". Crashed in Europe and was not shipped to the US 

111 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a - W.Nr.unknown - named "Beverley Anne" and then "Screamin' Meanie". Shipped to the US Navy as BuAer.No.121442. On static display at the USAAF Museum, Wright-Patterson AFB 

222 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a/U3 - W.Nr.unknown - named "Marge" and then "Lady Jess IV". Shipped to the US Navy as BuAer.No.121443 

333 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a - W.Nr.unknown - bamed "Feudin 54th A.D.Sq", "Pauline" and then "Deeloverly". Shipped to the US Navy as BuAer.No.121444 

444 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a/U3 - W.Nr.unknown - named "Connie the Sharp Article" and then "Pick II". Shipped to the US and allocated FE-4012. On static display at the Planes of Fame museum at Chino 

555 - Messerschmitt Me262B-1a - W.Nr.110639 - named "Vera" and then "Willie". Crashed on landing at Cherbourg but repaired and shipped to the US. On static display at NAS Willow Grove 

666 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a/U3 - W.Nr.500098 - named "Joanne" and then "Cookie VII". Shipped to the US and allocated a yet untraced FE-number. Possible FE-4011. Crashed Pittsburg and written off August 1945 

777 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a - W.Nr.unknown - named "Doris" then "Jabo Bait". Shipped to the US and allocated FE-110 

888 - Messerschmitt Me262A-1a - W.Nr.500491 - coded "Yellow 7" of IV./JG7 - named "Dennis" and then "Ginny H". Shipped to the US and allocated FE-111. On static display at NASM Washington DC 

999 - Messerschmitt Me262B-1a/U1 - W.Nr.110306 - coded "Red 6" of IV./JG11 - surrendered to RAF and allocated USA 2. Named "Ole Fruit Cake" and after being shipped to the US allocated FE-610. 

101 - Messerschmitt Me262B-1a - W.Nr.110165 - allocated USA 3 by RAF. Named "What Was it?" and later possible BuAer.No.121441. Scrapped November 1946 

202 - Arado Ar234B - W.Nr.unknown - named "Jane I" and shipped to US Navy, allocated BuAer.No.121445 

303 - Arado Ar234B - W.Nr.unknown - named "Snafu I" and shipped to the US Navy, allocated BuAer.No.121446 

404 - Arado Ar234B - W.Nr.140311 - surrendered to RAF and allocated USA 40. Shipped to the USAAF and allocated FE-1011 

505 - Arado Ar234B - W.Nr.140312 - surrendered to RAF and allocated USA 50. Shipped to the USAAF and allocated FE-1010 

http://www.indianamilitary.org/FreemanAAF/FE NUMBERS/Watson Numbers.htm


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 28, 2006)

Great info guys! I guess the folks that put the photo on the website got confused on where it was taken. I've been to Atsugi and from the little shown of the background, it doesn't look like Japan to me.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 28, 2006)

The site was still filled with good pics though.


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## Gnomey (Jan 28, 2006)

Great stuff Adler.


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## Twitch (Feb 4, 2006)

There were multiple Me 262s sent via U-boat to Japan. Some 98 voyages began in Germany though all were not successful. The Kikka was a Nipponization of the 262 not a copy at all. It was smaller and lighter to accomodate the less powerful engines until stronger ones were available. Those were to be used on the actual 262 copy, the Ki 201 Karyu.

Some of the transport U-boats were given to Japan and put into service with I-Boat designations.


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## me262 (Feb 4, 2006)

a ...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 5, 2006)

Welcome to the site Twitch, nice siggy. I like it. I use the same aircraft on mine also.


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## Twitch (Feb 5, 2006)

Thanks Adler, Marseille was the greatest shooter of them all round for round!

Disassembled 262s did reach Japan via U-boat or I-boat. The huge Japanese cargo subs went to Germany too. Whether the 262 had Jumo engines is unknown. Most certainly the Japanese received the BMW units. Of this I am sure. The Me 163 was cloned as the J8M Shusui from Japanese engineers using its technical manual only.

BTW that plane in the picture is a Me 262B not an A-1 as stated on the other website.


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## me262 (Feb 6, 2006)

...


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## Twitch (Feb 7, 2006)

Ya know how U-234 was on the way when the war ended? Here's what she had on board. Cargo containers were built to fit in the original mine shafts forward, midships and astern. Four cargo containers were carried topside. 240 tons of cargo were loaded for departure March 25,1945. Cargo included three crated Messershmitt Me-262 jet fighters and an ME-163 rocket-propelled fighter, Henschel HS-293 glider-bomb, extra Junkers jet engines, 10 canisters of uranium oxide, a ton of diplomatic mail, and over 3 tons of technical drawings, plus other technology (torpedo, fuses, armor piercing shells, etc.) Passengers were 9 high technical officers (one general) and civilian scientists. U-859 sunk in 1944 was carrying uranium.

U-129 and U-195 had delivered 12 V-2s and an Me 262 to Japan in 1944. 
The U-195, a Type IXD, and the U-219, type VII, delivered their cargo to Jakarta 12/44. The U-219 was turned over to the Imperial Navy to become the I.505. The U-195 became the I.506. There were something like 98 known attempts or successful voyages to Japan so we can only imaging what other goodies were sent. Other U-boats were turned over to the IJN after successful voyages to become I-boats.

See: 
Lenton, H.T. 
German Submarines Vols. 1 2 
Macdonald Co., London, 1965 

Green, William
Jet Aircraft of the World
Macdonald, London, 1955

These volumes discuss the acuisition of the 262 by Japan.


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## evangilder (Feb 7, 2006)

Good info, Twitch! And a belated welcome to the site.


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## KraziKanuK (Feb 7, 2006)

Twitch said:


> BTW that plane in the picture is a Me 262B not an A-1 as stated on the other website.


 Yes that has already been stated on pg1 of this thread > 999 - Messerschmitt Me262B-1a/U1 - W.Nr.110306 - coded "Red 6" of IV./JG11


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## Twitch (Feb 7, 2006)

Well I am glad to be here and hope we can have some fun trading info and pics of all sorts of wild planes.


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## evangilder (Feb 7, 2006)

Indeed, there is plenty of that here.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 10, 2006)

And plently of knowledge to go around. What someone does not know, someone else does.


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## d_bader (Feb 17, 2006)

me262 said:


> a couple of disassembled me 262 were send to japan during march 45 but the u boot surrendered to the US navy on 13 may 45 when germany capitulated, thru no me 262 reached japan, that left the japs with only the tech data to start the own jet program, although very similar to the me 262 , the nakajima kikka was pretty much an original design while the ki 201 karyu was a direct copy of the me 262, also the engines where based on the bmw 003b, but solely from photos of a cut away model provided by the embasy in berlin



In the same u-boat the Germans stored uranium, so that the Japs could make their own atom bomb as the Germans were almost finished. This uranium was captured and then used by the Americans against the Japs.


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## evangilder (Feb 17, 2006)

Hard to say definitively if that uranium was used.


> Upon its arrival in the U.S., newspapers immediately reported on the unusual contents of the U-boat. There were French cognacs and 240 tonnes of weapon components for delivery to the Japanese ally. The most important part of the shipment, however, was 560 kg of uranium. As written on the U-boat manifest, the top-secret material was intended for the Japanese army.
> 
> Was there really uranium on board? If so, what happened to it? Was it used for one of the two nuclear bombs dropped in Japan? Historians have not been able to determine conclusively. In the archives of Portsmouth, the records have been lost.
> 
> ...


Excerpted from a Der Spiegel article.
http://www10.antenna.nl/wise/index.html?http://www10.antenna.nl/wise/447/4440.html


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 17, 2006)

d_bader said:


> In the same u-boat the Germans stored uranium, so that the Japs could make their own atom bomb as the Germans were almost finished. This uranium was captured and then used by the Americans against the Japs.



Uranium for the US atomic bombs was enriched in the US - from what I understand, it came from Canada.


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## wmaxt (Feb 17, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> d_bader said:
> 
> 
> > In the same u-boat the Germans stored uranium, so that the Japs could make their own atom bomb as the Germans were almost finished. This uranium was captured and then used by the Americans against the Japs.
> ...



I don't know if it was used in the war but there is/was considerable uranium mined in the southwest to. Utah, Arizona and New Mexico are primary uranium sources if I remember right.

wmaxt


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## KraziKanuK (Feb 18, 2006)

Some trivia, Chalk River: AECL traces its heritage to the Second World War when a joint Canadian-British nuclear research laboratory was established in Montreal in 1942, under the National Research Council of Canada to develop a design for a nuclear reactor. [1] In 1944, approval was given by the federal government to begin with construction of the ZEEP (Zero Energy Experimental Pile) reactor at the Chalk River Nuclear Laboratories near Chalk River, Ontario, located on the Ottawa River approximately 190 km northwest of Ottawa(where I live). 

On September 5, 1945 the ZEEP reactor first went critical, achieving the first "self-sustained nuclear reaction outside the United States."[2] ZEEP put Canada at the forefront of nuclear research in the world and was the instigator behind eventual development of the CANDU reactors, ZEEP having operated as a research reactor until the early 1970s.

In 1946 the Montreal research laboratory was closed and research was consolidated at Chalk River Laboratories. On July 22, 1947 the NRX (National Research Experimental) reactor, the most powerful reactor in the world at the time, went critical and was "used successfully for producing radioisotopes, undertaking fuels and materials development work for CANDU reactors, and providing neutrons for physics experiments."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Energy_Canada

Had a tour through it when in college - had a wee glow afterwards.


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## delcyros (Feb 18, 2006)

Nice read, Krazikanuk.
I have always been interested in the early nuclear projects. I may add that the first self sustained nuclear chain reaction outside the US was in october 1944 in Gottow/Germany. K. Diebner established a short living atomic pile (test G IV). Evidence for this prior unknown test are found in several archives (including Moscow). According to the informations from a short handwriting of K.H. Höcker, this atomic pile melted down after a series of measurements have been recorded (there was an previously unknown effect of temporary delay in cooling down, so when they took the shut down reactor out of the water it melted down hours later) Recent analysis from officials confirmed the reactor accident (we know it happened after the measurement series because of a writing from Diebner to Heisenberg) at Gottow.


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## Twitch (Feb 18, 2006)

delcyros- you are right about that story. The Germans didn't realize what they had!

As for uranium oxide being used from the U-234, why not? Refining to that stage was expensive and time consuming and there is no reason why the US wouldn't have added it to their mix. The U-234 amount was about 1/3- 1/5 the amount needed for an A bomb so it was just a partial anyhow.


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## me262 (Feb 18, 2006)

...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 19, 2006)

very interesting stuff, i'm amazed they could get so much into the subs.........


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## Twitch (Feb 20, 2006)

The Japanese had HUGE transport subs larger than anything in Germany or the US. They supplied island garrisons with them too. The U-boats that sailed to the Orient were all comverted or built as cargo subs. 

Kriegesmarine sailing records I have show 98 cruises begun with Oriental destinations. Along with the I-boats going the other way there was lots of lattitude for "goodies" to be tranferred.


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