# He-100



## Chocks away! (Aug 15, 2005)

Why wasn't this great fighter ordered into service?  Disguss 8) 





Role Day fighter 
Crew one, pilot 
Dimensions 

Length 26 ft 11 in 8.20 m 
Wingspan 30 ft 11 in 9.42 m 
Height 11 ft 10 in 3.60 m 
Wing area 156 ft² 14.5 m² 
Weights 

Empty 4,563 lb 2,070 kg 
Maximum take-off 5,512 lb 2,500 kg 
Powerplant 

Engines 1 Daimler-Benz DB 601M 
Power 1,175 hp 876 kW 
Performance 

Maximum speed 416 mph 668 km/h 
Combat range 560 miles 900 km 
Ferry range 
Service ceiling 36,090 ft 11,000 m 
Armament 

Guns 1x 20 mm MG-FF cannon
2x 7.92 mm MG 17
machine guns 
Bombs none


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 15, 2005)

The Bf-109 was chosen over the He-100 mostly because the RLM prefereed Messerschmitt.


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## Smokey (Aug 15, 2005)

Wasn't the Me109 more maneuvrable than the Heinkel He 100?
Though the high speed of the He 100 compared to the Spitfire, Hurricane, Me109 and FW190A would have allowed it do hit and run style high energy passes like the P40, F6F, F4U, P38, spitfire and P47 did against the Zero


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## Parmigiano (Aug 15, 2005)

What I remember (again, I have no access to my books now) is that the RLM found that the structure of the He 100 was not suitable for many further development and that the Me 109 was easy to buld.
At the time Messerschmitt was an 'outsider' and was not very welcome in the 'establishment'.

PS: do I remember wrong or the He 100 was fitted vith a total-loss evaporation cooling system?


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## KraziKanuK (Aug 15, 2005)

Parmigiano said:
 

> PS: do I remember wrong or the He 100 was fitted vith a total-loss evaporation cooling system?



The D-1 had a retractable rad.


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 15, 2005)

Just a reminder to source your photos please gentlemen. Good stuff, by the way.


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## KraziKanuK (Aug 15, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Just a reminder to source your photos please gentlemen. Good stuff, by the way.



'Image Properties' give the source.


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 15, 2005)

That's great KK, but this is just a general reminder to everyone. Not everybody puts the source in the image properties.

Sources are to be shown, everybody. If you don't know or can't remember then just say "source unknown" or something to that effect, but we need something. It's just an ass-covering thing for the site, so your co-operation is much appreciated. Thank you all, and happy posting.


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## CharlesBronson (Aug 16, 2005)

We have talk about this plane in several topics like here:

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1265&start=0


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 18, 2005)

NS, did you just say...ASS COVERING 

oh yes, i'm back! and you've left me 3,800+ posts to read through


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 18, 2005)

Read mine first, read mine first, read mine first......... :angel:


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## mosquitoman (Aug 18, 2005)

Anyway, back on topic, wasn't Heinkel very popular with the German High Command, that might be the reason


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## kiwimac (Aug 18, 2005)

The Heinkel He 100 was more manoeuverable than the ME109 as I recall (I may be wrong in my recollection) but for some reason Heinkel was definitely out of favour at the RLM.

Kiwimac


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 18, 2005)

Did Spain use them?


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## Chocks away! (Aug 26, 2005)

Don't think so. If Heinkel wasn't popular than why was the He-111's production in full swing?


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 26, 2005)

I think Spain did use He-100's. Another country definately purchased some.


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## KraziKanuK (Aug 26, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> I think Spain did use He-100's. Another country definately purchased some.



Spain as well as Romania used He 112s, not He 100s. A Spanish He 112 ( 5*68 ) even shot down (forced landing due to damage) a P-38F of the 14th FG over Spanish Morocco.


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## Lunatic (Aug 29, 2005)

I'm pretty sure the reasons the 109 was chosen was because:

1) it was more easily mass produced

2) Messerschmitt won an air race gaining him favor with Hitler.

=S=

Lunatic


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 30, 2005)

Messerschmitt had one the favor of the RLM and Heinkel had not that is major piece in this argument. Heinkel was favored for bombers and sea planes.


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## CharlesBronson (Aug 30, 2005)

Lunatic said:


> I'm pretty sure the reasons the 109 was chosen was because:
> 
> 1) it was more easily mass produced
> .
> ...



The he-100 was designed for very simplified production it was more simple and had lees parts than bf-109, because Heinkel learned the lesson with the He-112 in a hard way.



> 2) Messerschmitt won an air race gaining him favor with Hitler



I think the main reason of the lack of sucess in the He-100 was that it use tha same engine that BF-109, Bf-110. 

The RLM ask Walther Gunther if this plane could be modified to accept the Jumo 211 engine, but the dimentions and performances of both engines were so diferent that Gunther refused to do so, sadly to the 100, the Jumo 213 was not available in 1940.


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## Chocks away! (Aug 31, 2005)

Cool profile. What a neat plane she is!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 1, 2005)

The He-100 was lighter and easier to build than the Bf-109. It broke several world speed records, achieving a speed of 435mph, at max take off it could still achieve speeds in the 400 range. It was made of only 969 parts. It used a evaporative cooling system. It also had a range of up to 1000km compared to the 109's much lower range. All of this in 1939/1940. Overall I think the 100 could have been a much better aircraft than the 109 and it was a harsh mistake on the RLM not to produce this aircraft.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 1, 2005)

I definately agree with that. The BoB might have been a different story with He-100's instead of 109's.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 1, 2005)

The 109 was supposadly more maneuverable than the He-100. Not sure of that though.

And I still dont think it would have changed the outcome the German Higher Command would have made the same mistakes either way.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 1, 2005)

Valid point.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 1, 2005)

They were doomed either way.


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## red admiral (Sep 1, 2005)

The He-100 is only good until it gets shot at. 1 hole in that evaporative cooling system and it is screwed in a very short time.

CC. the bob would definitely have been different with the He-100. The RAF could simply use AA guns instead of bothering with fighters. With the He-100 flying close escort and shrapnel flying through the air, the -100 would be screwed due to the reasons mentioned above.


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## CharlesBronson (Sep 1, 2005)

red admiral said:


> The He-100 is only good until it gets shot at. 1 hole in that evaporative cooling system and it is screwed in a very short time.
> 
> CC. the bob would definitely have been different with the He-100. The RAF could simply use AA guns instead of bothering with fighters. With the He-100 flying close escort and shrapnel flying through the air, the -100 would be screwed due to the reasons mentioned above.



The He-100 D-1 wich was teorically the version to be mass produced, discarded the evaporative cooling system , and used instead a more conventional radiator retractable below the cockpit.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 2, 2005)

Nice profiles 8)


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## Smokey (Sep 2, 2005)

double post


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## Smokey (Sep 2, 2005)

Nice pages on the He 100

http://www.geocities.com/lastdingo/aviation/he100.htm

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/he100.html






He 100 three-side drawing of V2 and D-0





He 100D`s on the ground





He 100D`s on the ground (as He113 for propaganda bluff)





He 100D on the ground (as He113 for propaganda bluff)








> *Heinkel only build three pre-serial He 100D-0 and twelve He 100D-1 (bigger tail unit and cockpit).
> Three He 100D-0 were sold to Japan, which planned a licence production,
> Six prototypes and one He 100D-1 were sold to the UDSSR, where especially Jakovlev analized it for his
> later fighters Jak-1 and the excellent Jak-3 (Jakovlev later said that the condensation
> ...



Ideally the wing area should have been larger, for example by scaling up the wing, which would reduce wing loading which would in theory reduce its trurning circle. The extra weight and drag would have reduced its speed and acceleration, but probably not by much.

Even without these changes it seems an amazing fighter plane, and in 1940 may have been to Spitfires and Hurricanes what the BF109 was to the I 16.





He 100D left side





He 100D-1 inflight photo

It looks damn nice, almost as if its melting on the ground due to friction of the speed

Imagine a DB605 fiited to the Heinkel He 100, this would have been in 1942. With the speed of the DB601 and DB605 variants, the RAF may have needed a much faster fighter, sending out urgent requests for a fighter with laminar flow wings. In 1942, the P-51B Mustang could have become the standard RAF fighter, or a Spitfire with laminar flow wings may have been rushed into production as early as 1940/1941


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## CharlesBronson (Sep 2, 2005)

> Imagine a DB605 fiited to the Heinkel He 100, this would have been in 1942. With the speed of the DB601 and DB605 variants, the RAF may have needed a much faster fighter, sending out urgent requests for a fighter with laminar flow wings. In 1942, the P-51B Mustang could have become the standard RAF fighter, or a Spitfire with laminar flow wings may have been rushed into production as early as 1940/1941



A more usable engine would be the 1350 hp DB-601E, with this a suposed *"He-100E"* shall surpased the 690 km/h.
In this "future" version also is likely that the wingroots Mg, were the MG-131 instead the MG-17 and the central cannon probably the Mauser MG-151.

And the wingspan wasnt so bad, for example the Lagg-3 had 9,42m (the same as He-100) and the Yak-3 had 9,2 m, and they both had good handling qualities even at low altitude only, the He-100 probably was surpased in this item by the 109 in the high altitude arena.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 4, 2005)

The first prototype of the He-100 passed the 690km/h mark anyhow going over 700 and breaking the world speed record. It did not need the DB-601E


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## CharlesBronson (Sep 4, 2005)

Nop......the only He-100 that surpassed that speed was the record aircraft He-100V8.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

And what engine did it use? I dont think it was a DB-601E. I may be wrong, but I doubt it.


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## CharlesBronson (Sep 5, 2005)

It used the special DB-601R (Rekord) that achieved 1770 hp by short periods.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

Okay well I stand corrected.


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## CharlesBronson (Sep 5, 2005)

In here you have the DB-601 versions:


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

Cool thanks.


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## kiwimac (Sep 6, 2005)

He-100, one of my favourites!

Kiwimac


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 7, 2005)

I agree with you, and I think it was missed oportunity and a grave mistake not to pursue it by the Luftwaffe.


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## schwarzpanzer (Sep 15, 2005)

Not really.

The HE112 was more manouverable than the 109, but had a much lower top speed.

The HE100 was faster but very expensive.

These may just have been excuses by the RLM though?

I know the 109 was ordered whilst the trials were going on though.

I also know Ernst Heinkel was in Luftwaffes good and bad books due to things he'd done right/wrong.

Also he gave a few pointers to Reginald Mitchells assistant or whoever, I thought this was because he admired him.

But could he have had alterior motives? i.e. to spite Willy Me/RLM and see his ideas enter mass production?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 16, 2005)

Yeah it was not made by Messerschmitt. The He-100 was easier to work on, easier to build, faster, and more manueverable. So polotics can be the only reason.


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## CharlesBronson (Sep 16, 2005)

> The HE100 was faster but very expensive.



After the defeat of the He-112 desing in 1936, the Gunthers brothers take seriously the effort on simplified the production.



> To ease production the new design had considerably fewer parts than the 112, and those that remained contained considerably few compound curves. In part count the 100 was made of 969 unique parts and was held together with 11543 rivets, in comparison the 112 had 2885 parts and 26864 rivets. The new straight-edged wing was a source of much of the savings, after building the first wings Otto Butter reported that the reduction in complexity and rivet count (along with the Butter brothers's own explosive rivet system) saved an astonishing 1150 man hours per wing.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2005)

Hey CharlesBronson if you are going to copy texts please source them so that this site does not get hit with copyright problems. I have used that website before so I remember that paragraph there.


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## CharlesBronson (Sep 17, 2005)

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/he100.html


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2005)

Thanks just next time put it with the quote like this.  



> Blah Blah Blah Blah abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz hey hey hey du
> www.thislinkdoesnotreallyexist.com


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## schwarzpanzer (Sep 17, 2005)

> The HE100 was...very expensive.



So this is likely a lie then?

Thanks Charles DerAdler


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2005)

As far as I know it was no more expensive than a Bf-109.


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## schwarzpanzer (Sep 17, 2005)

Ah-ha!  

Evapourative cooling!

It is very fragile and was used in the He-100 and was the main reason for it's high performance.

The Schmitts rads were far, far better and if the He used conventional rads, the performance advantage would be offset.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 18, 2005)

Are you getting sarcastic with me? I hope not.


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## schwarzpanzer (Sep 19, 2005)

Why did you say that?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 22, 2005)

Just a bad day man.....


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## Smokey (Sep 23, 2005)

schwarzpanzer said:


> Ah-ha!
> 
> Evapourative cooling!
> 
> ...



According to this website

http://www.geocities.com/lastdingo/aviation/he100.htm



> The He 100 had some problems with its condensation cooling system, but these were solved with an additional retractable normal cooler under the fuselage and the original condensation cooling system proved that it was able to take as much battle damage as well as normal cooling systems. The C serie proved that this fighter can carry a armament superior to all enemies of its time. The expectable dogfight tactics would have been similar to the F4U Corsair and Fw190A (hit and run). Why didn´t this plane succeed? Even with a standard cooling system (and no condensation cooling), it would have been still fast enough to be state-of-the-art until at least 1942! The only weakness I found was the small wing area of 14,50m2. It later would have limited the amount of additional armour, horsepower, armament and fuel and resulted in a high landing speed. In fact, the allies wouldn´t have had any chance in the Battle of Britain against 800 Heinkel 100D instead of 800 Me 109E!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2005)

Good info there also.


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## TenGunTerror (Jul 1, 2009)

Goebbels used a squadron of He-100's in a propoganda poster making the Brits believe the Nazis had a new fighter


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 2, 2009)

TenGunTerror said:


> Goebbels used a squadron of He-100's in a propoganda poster making the Brits believe the Nazis had a new fighter



LOOK AT THE UPPER LEFT HAND CORNER OF THE LAST POST AND NOTICE THE DATE - *YOU ARE REPLYING TO A THREAD THAT IS ALMOST 4 YEARS OLD!!!!!*


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## davebender (Jul 2, 2009)

It appears to me the key issue of He-100 production cost was never answered. We know how many manhours were required to build the Me-109 and Spitfire airframes. What was the estimate for building mass produced He-100s?


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## CharlesBronson (Jul 2, 2009)

> LOOK AT THE UPPER LEFT HAND CORNER OF THE LAST POST AND NOTICE THE DATE - YOU ARE REPLYING TO A THREAD THAT IS ALMOST 4 YEARS OLD!!!!!



Well, must be because the He-100 is a very interesting aircraft 8)


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## DonL (Jul 2, 2009)

The main reason that the HE 100 was not build for sevice, was the liquid cool system in the wings.

First, one shot through the wing and the plane lags cooling liquid.
Second, the cooling system was not large enough for any other engine only for the DB 601 M (1175 PS).

That are the main reason for the RLM to put it not in service. 

The highspeed of the HE 100 was 670km/h with the DB 601M (1175PS).


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## gjs238 (Jul 2, 2009)

Anyone know when the He 100D-1 came out?


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## DonL (Jul 2, 2009)

This was 1939


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## Marcel (Jul 2, 2009)

DonL said:


> The main reason that the HE 100 was not build for sevice, was the liquid cool system in the wings.
> 
> First, one shot through the wing and the plane lags cooling liquid.
> Second, the cooling system was not large enough for any other engine only for the DB 601 M (1175 PS).
> ...


I think the D1 had this type of cooling discarded. According to Gajus Becker, the main reason was the demand on DB601 engines id both Bf109 and He100 would be produced and with the Bf109 already chosen, they didn't want to change to another type.


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## lingo (Jul 2, 2009)

Chocks away! said:


> Don't think so. If Heinkel wasn't popular than why was the He-111's production in full swing?



He was displeased that the NSDAP made him get rid of staff who had Jewish ancestry and made his displeasure known to the party. From then on he was largely sidelined by the RLM. Seigfried And Wolfgang Gunter effectively ran the three main plants of the company.


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## DonL (Jul 2, 2009)

> I think the D1 had this type of cooling discarded. According to Gajus Becker, the main reason was the demand on DB601 engines id both Bf109 and He100 would be produced and with the Bf109 already chosen, they didn't want to change to another type.



No the wing cooling system is the main feature of the HE 100 design.
Without this cooling system you will have a much slower highspeed.
The complete design is build around this cooling system.

And yes one other reason was, that the ME 109 was already chosen but the important reason was the design.


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## GrauGeist (Jul 2, 2009)

DonL said:


> No the wing cooling system is the main feature of the HE 100 design.
> Without this cooling system you will have a much slower highspeed.
> The complete design is build around this cooling system.
> 
> And yes one other reason was, that the ME 109 was already chosen but the important reason was the design.


The He100D-1 model did not have the surface cooling system. Instead, it had a larger retractable radiator installed with slightly widened wings.

In spite of this change, it was still capable of flight over 400mph.


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## merlin (Jul 2, 2009)

DonL said:


> No the wing cooling system is the main feature of the HE 100 design.
> Without this cooling system you will have a much slower highspeed.
> The complete design is build around this cooling system.
> And yes one other reason was, that the ME 109 was already chosen but the important reason was the design.



I know some people aren't fans of Wm Green, but the quote may be of interest:

"The He 100 had a wing span of only 26 ft. 10 3/4 in. and employed a system of surface evaporation cooling. Four further prototypes were built, the He 100V4, V5, V6, and V7, these embodying modifications dictated by the results of an investigation into the crash of the He 100V3 in September 1938, and incorporated service equipment. These were intended to serve as prototypes for the proposed He 100B fighter and were intensively flight-tested by R.L.M. pilots at Rechlin-Mueritz. The rechlin pilots were highly enthusiastic over the He 100's speed but deployed its extremely high wing loading and poor handling qualities.
The Ernst heinkel A. G. therefore abandoned the He 100B and undertook an extensive redesign of the fighter in an attempt to improve its characteristics. The wing was redesigned and overall span increased to 30 ft. 10 3/4 in. to reduce the wing loading, and the surface evaporation cooling system which had proved impossible to perfect to a standard required for general service use, was supplanted by a semi-retractable belly radiator. This version was designated He 100D"


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## johnbr (Jul 2, 2009)

I wonder how it would have done with the db605d.


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## CharlesBronson (Jul 2, 2009)

> I wonder how it would have done with the db605d.



With that engine the He-100 would probably hit the 720 or 730 kph mark if it have hadnt overload with gunpods, fuel tanks and other stuff.


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## davebender (Jul 2, 2009)

Exceptional speed, acceleration and rate of climb. But the high wing loading made for poor maneuverability and an overall poor fighter aircraft. If the He-100 had been produced it may have had a similiar operational record.


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## Shortround6 (Jul 4, 2009)

If the 109 suffered from poor development potential then the He 100 would have suffered even more. Smaller wing and shorter fuselage. Two mg 17s and a single engine mounted 20mm MG/FF. Why should the 20mm in the Heinkel work any better than than the ones in the 109? Was there room in the wing to mount effective armament? Did the Heinkel actually have a service ceiling 3-4000ft lower than the bf 109?


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## Soren (Jul 4, 2009)

Both a/c were pitted against each other and the 109 won. There was simply more potential in the 109.


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## davebender (Jul 4, 2009)

I suspect that is true. Which explains why Germany did not mass produce the He-100.

However there were multiple wars in progress during the fall of 1939. If the He-100 was inexpensive to manufacture (which may or may not be true) then it compares nicely with other fighter aircraft at that time. Nations like Hungary, Finlnd, Sweden, Romania, Italy, China, Spain, Switzerland etc. could have purchased the He-100 tooling for a pittance and had a world class fighter aircraft in production during 1940.


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## vanir (Jul 4, 2009)

I'm not sure if I'm repeating myself or am thinking of another forum...
What was the flying condition and test conditions for the high speed data on the He100D? Is it calculated data? Is it for the one minute limited maximum emergency setting of the DB601Aa, after which the radiator would be lowered? What was its performance with the radiator extended at the steig/kampfleistung setting?

When the He112 was flown comparatively against the early 109 (both Jumo engine versions) it was shown that fitted with combat gear the 109 was better and the evaporative cooling system may not have been combat worthy. I would presume this was a similar situation with the He113/100. Its high speed condition is most likely very limited, where in the medium performance range and in extended combat the 109 probably performed equally, better, or similarly.

My personal assumption has been the He100D may have had a better high speed run but it was limited, whilst during extended high performance scenarios it lost any serious advantages for the bulk of the mission, at the cost of a more complicated, specialised and expensive production. Due to the success of the 108 the 109 (which shared some initial tooling) was very easy to place into mass production quickly, almost contradictory to this it also performed admirably for the time and was very popular with pilots.
He100 was probably a better racing plane. 109 a better ubiquitous fighter, I'm guessing.


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