# Saab J-35 doing Pugachev's Cobra maneuver



## sunny91 (Oct 29, 2007)

Special thing to do..

Sunny


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## comiso90 (Oct 29, 2007)

cool!

thanks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pugachev's_Cobra

.


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## ccheese (Oct 30, 2007)

Thanks, Sunny.... that was good...

Charles


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## Aggie08 (Oct 30, 2007)

Yeah, really neat maneuver. I think it was until recently a requirement that all Russian fighters be able to do that.


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## comiso90 (Oct 30, 2007)

It's cool at air shows or if someone is "guns on" and on your ass 500 feet behind but I don't see it fooling a sidewinder missile.

.


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## Aggie08 (Oct 30, 2007)

I thought the point was to be able to fire an aam at someone behind you. It never seamed feasible to me but it sure looks cool.


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## comiso90 (Oct 30, 2007)

I bet the Draken is the oldest aircraft capable of doing that...


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## DZin (Oct 31, 2007)

It's a hard maneuver to do...


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## FLYBOYJ (Oct 31, 2007)

As stated - it looks good but in air combat its absolutely useless...


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## The Jug Rules! (Nov 1, 2007)

wow....I thought you had to have a jet with thust vectoring to do that...cool... and aggie...Funny sig


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## HoHun (Nov 1, 2007)

Hi Flyboy,

>As stated - it looks good but in air combat its absolutely useless...

Hm, I'm not a fighter pilot, but it looks just like the kind of "last-ditch defense" manoeuvre outlined in the Korean War training manual written by Frederick Blesse. (Some more info here: Frederick Boots Blesse - korean war ace, fighter pilot ... I think "No Guts, No Glory" was reproduced in the appendix of Mike Spick's "Ace Factor", and I've seen a training manual based on "No Guts ..." with some more procedures added that was used by the Bundesluftwaffe for fighter pilot training in the F-84/F-86 or F-104 era.)

The Cobra's main value would be the rapid deceleration that could be used to provoke overshooting of the attacker. Even if that fails, it might get cause the attacker to close to less than his minimum missile range.

Most likely, that will only buy you a bit of time at the expense of a lot of energy, but I imagine sometimes a bit of time would be all your wingman needs to save your hide ... 

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## Aggie08 (Nov 1, 2007)

Haha, thanks Jug. I know the maneuver was doable far before thrust-vectoring was common.


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## comiso90 (Nov 1, 2007)

HoHun said:


> Hi Flyboy,
> 
> >As stated - it looks good but in air combat its absolutely useless...
> 
> ...



Your right! If you're in a Draken and being chased by a F-86 or MiG-15... I'm sure the cobra maneuver could save your life..

It's not gonna fool a missile... and as you mention, you've lost all your energy.

.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 1, 2007)

If you were flying a modern fighter and "allowed" your opponent do even come close in doing a cobra in front of you, well some government wasted a lot of money on pilot training. Unless both planes were put into very close quarters (which again would be a tactical sin), I can't see any one doing this maneuver unless he wants filled with lead, providing the pursuing aircraft has a gun.

Again, a useless maneuver made for airshows, photographers and maybe Hollywood....


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## HoHun (Nov 1, 2007)

Hi Flyboyj,

>If you were flying a modern fighter and "allowed" your opponent do even come close in doing a cobra in front of you, well some government wasted a lot of money on pilot training. 

"The guy who wins is the guy who makes the fewer gross mistakes."

Lieutenant Jim "Huck" Harris, USN
U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School Instructor

Quoted from Robert Shaw, "Fighter Combat - Tactics and Maneuvering".

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 1, 2007)

HoHun said:


> Hi Flyboyj,
> 
> >If you were flying a modern fighter and "allowed" your opponent do even come close in doing a cobra in front of you, well some government wasted a lot of money on pilot training.
> 
> ...



Very true - and if you're in a position where you're actually witnessing your opponent doing a cobra in front of you, the gross mistake was made minutes earlier multiplied by 10!


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## HoHun (Nov 1, 2007)

Hi Comiso,

>Your right! If you're in a Draken and being chased by a F-86 or MiG-15... I'm sure the cobra maneuver could save your life..

It's just another move to trade energy for geometry - I don't think there is any type that is immune against these moves. Maybe one could consider it as a move disrupting the attacking pilot's OODA loop - a term introduced by the same John Boyd who also formulated the concept of energy maneuvering.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## Royzee617 (Nov 1, 2007)

Great clips to leave us all pondering which part of the aether he plucks them from....

Read somewhere the Cobra could affect tracking in Doppler radars as favoured by western fighters.

Not much cop in a modern dogfight with supercruise... the Raptor would have seen them Russkis off before they knew what hit them.


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## HoHun (Nov 1, 2007)

Hi Flyboyj,

>if you're in a position where you're actually witnessing your opponent doing a cobra in front of you, the gross mistake was made minutes earlier multiplied by 10!

Right - that's the reason why the F-22 comes without a gun.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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