# Non-US carrier aircraft on US carriers



## Admiral Beez (May 11, 2021)

Fairey Swordfish on USS Wasp.






Fairey Swordfish on USS Wasp elevator April 1942 | World War Photos

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## Admiral Beez (May 11, 2021)

A6M Zeros on USS Copahee (CVE-12)





Photos - Colourised Images of WW2 & earlier conflicts

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## Thumpalumpacus (May 11, 2021)

Spitfire taking off from the USS _Wasp_ on one of its "stings":






ETA: Note the Wildcat stowed ahead of the bridge.

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## Admiral Beez (May 11, 2021)

Thumpalumpacus said:


> Spitfire taking off from the USS _Wasp_ on one of its "stings":
> 
> View attachment 622822
> 
> ...


Nice. I’d like to see one land onto Wasp, hooked variant of course.


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## Thumpalumpacus (May 11, 2021)

Admiral Beez said:


> Nice. I’d like to see one land onto Wasp, hooked variant of course.



They were only ever craned aboard that particular ship, iirc.


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## Admiral Beez (May 11, 2021)

Thumpalumpacus said:


> They were only ever craned aboard that particular ship, iirc.


Some other great Wasp pics


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## wuzak (May 11, 2021)

Admiral Beez said:


> Nice. I’d like to see one land onto Wasp, hooked variant of course.



I believe one did, after its slipper tank failed.

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## cammerjeff (May 12, 2021)

another Picture of the USS Copahee with a load of A6m's





_USS Bogue_ (CVE-9) in late 1945 sits a rare trophy, one of only two Tachikawa Ki-77 long-range aircraft ever built





source wwii.wordpress.com

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## SaparotRob (May 12, 2021)

That's the first time I've seen HIJMS (USS?) Nagato raising steam in that condition. It is Nagato, right?


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## vikingBerserker (May 12, 2021)

I dont think it is, I think she had a large pagoda mast at this point. I looks like an old American cruiser to me.


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## SaparotRob (May 12, 2021)

At the top of the picture, it looks like the main mast has been chopped off in a very distinctive pattern. Problem is, it's too close to the top edge of the picture for me to be sure. HIJMS Nagato had a very distinctive bow and funnel but the picture is from the stern. That's the only way I can tell it from the other IJN BB's, except the Yamatos.


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## SaparotRob (May 12, 2021)

The more I look at the shape of the hull, though, it does seem to say cruiser.


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## cammerjeff (May 12, 2021)

The shape of the Hull says Heavy Cruiser, 2 gun superimposed rear turrets, looks to be 2 stacks, my best guess would be one of the HMS London class.

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## SaparotRob (May 12, 2021)

Didn't make out the forward stack. From what I could make out of it I thought was part of a pagoda mast.


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## nuuumannn (May 12, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> That's the first time I've HIJMS (USS?) Nagato raising steam in that condition. It is Nagato, right?



Yeah, I think you're right, it's definitely not a British cruiser, it's too big. You can see people next to the gun turrets. Take a look at this image, I would say it is the fabled American battleship USS Nagato... 

Nagato09cropped - Japanese battleship Nagato - Wikipedia

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## SaparotRob (May 12, 2021)

Thank heavens someone else sees it too.


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## SaparotRob (May 12, 2021)

Now we all know I don't look stuff up but I had to check out Wikipedia for pictures of Nagato. While looking around at everything but the Nagato, I actually found an error on the "frequently asked" part. How many battleships survived WW2? was the question. Their answer was 4. I count at least 6.


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## R Leonard (May 12, 2021)

Looks like Nagato to me .

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## pararaftanr2 (May 13, 2021)

During Operation Dragoon, the invasion of Southern France, a RN Swordfish made an emergency landing on the USN CVE-72, USS Tulagi, but ended up in the barrier, so didn't stay aboard for long.



.

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## cammerjeff (May 13, 2021)

R Leonard said:


> Looks like Nagato to me .



After doing some internet research I changed my opinion and I think it is Nagato in the Picture I posted. It making steam makes sense as it sailed most of the way to Bikini.


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## Admiral Beez (May 13, 2021)

pararaftanr2 said:


> During Operation Dragoon, the invasion of Southern France, a RN Swordfish made an emergency landing on the USN CVE-72, USS Tulagi, but ended up in the barrier, so didn't stay aboard for long.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ouch. Did any WW2-era, British-designed and piloted aircraft ever land well onto a USN carrier? Seafires pranged, and now Swordfish?


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## pararaftanr2 (May 13, 2021)

Admiral Beez said:


> Ouch. Did any WW2-era, British-designed and piloted aircraft ever land well onto a USN carrier? Seafires pranged, and now Swordfish?



Actually yes. On 9 May 1942, 64 Spitfires were flown off USS Wasp and HMS Eagle headed to Malta. Canadian P/O Jerrold Alpine Smith, flying a Spitfire VC (with no tail hook), found after take-off that his long range fuel tank was unserviceable. Incapable of reaching Malta, he dropped it and returned to Wasp, circling until the deck was clear. At the time, future US Navy top ace David McCampbell was Wasp's LSO and he successfully guided Smith to a safe landing, the first ever for a Spitfire. P/O Smith was unofficially awarded US Naval Aviator's Wings aboard the Wasp for his outstanding feat.

Below is Smith after his landing, followed by McCampbell gifting Smith with his overseas cap and finally, Smith making his second takeoff from Wasp.

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## buffnut453 (May 13, 2021)

This may not count since it was an American-made aircraft...but it's a foreign air force. A SVNAF Bird Dog landing on the USS Midway in one of the great escape stories associated with the Vietnam War.

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## nuuumannn (May 13, 2021)

pararaftanr2 said:


> but ended up in the barrier, so didn't stay aboard for long.



That to me looks as if it spent more time on the carrier than orignally intended!

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## Admiral Beez (May 13, 2021)

pararaftanr2 said:


> Actually yes. On 9 May 1942, 64 Spitfires were flown off USS Wasp and HMS Eagle headed to Malta. Canadian P/O Jerrold Alpine Smith, flying a Spitfire VC (with no tail hook), found after take-off that his long range fuel tank was unserviceable. Incapable of reaching Malta, he dropped it and returned to Wasp, circling until the deck was clear. At the time, future US Navy top ace David McCampbell was Wasp's LSO and he successfully guided Smith to a safe landing, the first ever for a Spitfire. P/O Smith was unofficially awarded US Naval Aviator's Wings aboard the Wasp for his outstanding feat


Had Smith pranged his Spitfire he might have lived past his death in August ‘42. Some good info from Veterans Affairs Canada. Jerrold Alpine Smith - The Canadian Virtual War Memorial - Veterans Affairs Canada

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## pararaftanr2 (May 13, 2021)

nuuumannn said:


> That to me looks as if it spent more time on the carrier than orignally intended!



And left a mess behind to clean up as well. Fortunately, the crew was safe though, and undoubtedly got to sample the flight surgeon's post-mission stock of medicinal brandy.

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## Thumpalumpacus (May 14, 2021)

Here's an Albacore coming in on final aboard the USS _Robin _:

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## SaparotRob (May 14, 2021)

Thumpalumpacus said:


> Here's an Albacore coming in on final aboard the USS _Robin _:
> 
> View attachment 623174


That counts!

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## Admiral Beez (May 14, 2021)

It's too bad the Anglo-Japanese alliance ended in 1921/23. Hermes and Hosho could have sailed together and exchanged aircraft.


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## Thumpalumpacus (May 14, 2021)

Admiral Beez said:


> It's too bad the Anglo-Japanese alliance ended in 1921/23. Hermes and Hosho could have sailed together and exchanged aircraft.



Who knows, they might not have come to blows 20 years later.

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## SaparotRob (May 14, 2021)

While serving with the USN, was "USS Robin" flying American colors?


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## Thumpalumpacus (May 14, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> While serving with the USN, was "USS Robin" flying American colors?



I've seen no pictures of it.


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## SaparotRob (May 14, 2021)

I just Wiki'd USS Robin. I checked it out on armouredcarriers.com. It's a great read. According to the site, although the planes carried stars, the ship flew English colours. There was a great captioned photo of USS Robin's flight deck with a big square patch painted on the middle the flight deck. This was a dummy elevator (lift) so that IJN bombers would aim for the vulnerable "elevator" which was in fact was the armoured part of the flight deck. Pretty neat!

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## Admiral Beez (May 14, 2021)

Thumpalumpacus said:


> Who knows, they might not have come to blows 20 years later.


Japan definitely chose the wrong side in WW2, deciding in Dec 1941 to throw away nearly fifty years (from the order of IJNS Fuji in 1894) of peaceful and (until the late 1930s) mutually beneficial existence with Britain. 

Japan had three officers on board the Grand Fleet at the Battle of Jutland.

Commander Chiusuke Shimomura, IJN. Killed on HMS Queen Mary. Shimomura, Chisuko - Battle of Jutland Crew Lists Project
Commander Suetsugu Nobumasa, aboard HMS Colossus
Lt Commander Imamura Shinjiro aboard a light cruiser.

Nobumasa (1880-1944) later became an Admiral and was the Japanese Minister of the Interior in 1937-39. Vice-Admiral Imamura Shinjiro (1880-1969) became the Chancellor in 1936.

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## Thumpalumpacus (May 14, 2021)

Admiral Beez said:


> Japan definitely chose the wrong side in WW2, deciding in Dec 1941 to throw away nearly fifty years (from the order of IJNS Fuji in 1894) of peaceful and (until the late 1930s) mutually beneficial existence with Britain.
> 
> Japan had three officers on board the Grand Fleet at the Battle of Jutland.
> 
> ...



The disavowed treaty aside, a breach in Anglo-Japanese relations was probably inevitable once the Japanese picked up the Mandates after Versailles, not to mention the accession of IJA radicals to positions of power in the 1930s.

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## gkjl (May 14, 2021)



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## Admiral Beez (May 14, 2021)

Thumpalumpacus said:


> Here's an Albacore coming in on final aboard the USS _Robin _:
> 
> View attachment 623174


Looking at these sea and cloud conditions, I imagine finding one's carrier was a very welcome sight. I'd be out of that crate, debriefed and into the officer's mess for a hot drink and then hit the bunk..... unless I'm expected to be back in the cockpit for a quick turnaround.


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## Thumpalumpacus (May 14, 2021)

Admiral Beez said:


> Looking at these sea and cloud conditions, I imagine finding one's carrier was a very welcome sight. I'd be out of that crate, debriefed and into the officer's mess for a hot drink and then hit the bunk..... unless I'm expected to be back in the cockpit for a quick turnaround.



It's hard for me to judge those conditions with a B&W pic to work with -- can't judge the nature of the clouds very well. 

Sea skies can be notoriously tricky for me to read even with the benefit of color. It does rather look like the June Gloom we got seasonally in SoCal when I lived there (fog in the morning, scud with low ceiling after two or three pm, sometimes burning off). Not the best flying weather, but not the worst.


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## Admiral Beez (May 14, 2021)

Thumpalumpacus said:


> Not the best flying weather, but not the worst.


Good point. This chap in the Martlet has it worse.

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## Thumpalumpacus (May 14, 2021)

Admiral Beez said:


> Good point. This chap in the Martlet has it worse.
> 
> View attachment 623214



There needs to be an exclamation-point smiley for pics like this. Good lord! I'm getting seasick looking at that pic.

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## SaparotRob (May 14, 2021)

Admiral Beez said:


> Looking at these sea and cloud conditions, I imagine finding one's carrier was a very welcome sight. I'd be out of that crate, debriefed and into the officer's mess for a hot drink and then hit the bunk..... unless I'm expected to be back in the cockpit for a quick turnaround.


I was about to write that the pilot would be real disappointed upon realizing the USN is "dry". Then I realized that U.S.S. Robin wasn't really USN. Too bad you can't undo reply.


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## nuuumannn (May 14, 2021)

Admiral Beez said:


> Japan had three officers on board the Grand Fleet at the Battle of Jutland.



No doubt stemming from the British officer aboard a Japanese battleship at Tsushima. Both countries shared much and the breakdown in relations was swift and damaging to both parties, whose diplomatic representatives were caught in the middle. This guy in particular, Friedrick Rutland, better known as Rutland of Jutland was accused of being a Japanese spy and eventually commit suicide after WW2, after doing so much for naval aviation during the Great War. Aside from carrying out fleet spotting on the morning of Jutland (the fuselage of the Short 184 he flew is on display at the FAA Museum at Yeovilton, it's a bit damaged as it was in the Imperial War Museum which suffered a fire in WW2), he was the first to fly a landplane from an improvised deck on a seaplane tender, a Sopwith Pup off HMS Manxman. To the astonishment of those present, he attended a meeting at Rosyth and said to all assembled that he could fly a Pup of a space less than 15 feet and then did it. He took over Furious' flying squadron after Edwin Dunning lost his life landing on the forward deck of the carrier and successfully landed a pup on the same deck after Dunning had done his first two successful landings then lost his life, he carried out trials flying Ship's Camels from platforms towed by destroyers... The guy had balls of steel.



gkjl said:


> P-51D-5NA 44-14017 on the deck of USS Shangri-La in November 1944.



Well, the Mustang IS a 'British' aeroplane

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## Admiral Beez (May 14, 2021)

nuuumannn said:


> Both countries shared much and the breakdown in relations was swift and damaging to both parties,


Britain could have done a lot more to maintain positive relations with Japan, but London had become so timid about upsetting the USA... granted they did own a lot of Britain’s WW1 debt. But Britain could have supported Tokyo in the WNT instead of sitting back as their long-standing ally was humiliated.


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## nuuumannn (May 14, 2021)

Agree Admiral, the Japanese didn't help themselves though, although there were representatives of the Japanese government that saw the benefits of maintaining cordial relations with the British.


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## N4521U (May 14, 2021)

Admiral Beez said:


> Britain could have done a lot more to maintain positive relations with Japan, but London had become so timid about upsetting the USA... granted they did own a lot of Britain’s WW1 debt. But Britain could have supported Tokyo in the WNT instead of sitting back as their long-standing ally was humiliated.



Britain did have relations After WWI.
They taught them how to T/O and Land on Carriers!
How to carry big bombs on tiny planes!

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## GrauGeist (May 15, 2021)

gkjl said:


> P-51D-5NA 44-14017 on the deck of USS Shangri-La in November 1944.
> View attachment 623194


One of several Mustangs the USN trialed over the years.
P-51A, P-51D and P-51H.


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## nuuumannn (May 15, 2021)

N4521U said:


> They taught them how to T/O and Land on Carriers!



Yup, the British Naval Mission of 1921 was a real success for the Japanese and fostered good relations between the countries that were soon to go sour. Several 'modern' aeroplane types, including aircraft carrier-based torpedoplanes and single-seat fighters, went on the mission, that were operated aboard the Hosho. The previously mentioned Rutland of Jutland was one of those who went to Japan with the mission and its commander, Col. William Sempill was also regarded as a traitor following the decay of diplomatic relations in the 30s.


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## wingnuts (May 15, 2021)

Admiral Beez said:


> Britain could have done a lot more to maintain positive relations with Japan, but London had become so timid about upsetting the USA... granted they did own a lot of Britain’s WW1 debt. But Britain could have supported Tokyo in the WNT instead of sitting back as their long-standing ally was humiliated.



The IJN did more than just exchange officers with the RN, they had a squadron in the Med and Indian Ocean protecting shipping. 2nd Special Squadron (Japanese Navy) - Wikipedia.

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## nuuumannn (May 17, 2021)

wingnuts said:


> The IJN did more than just exchange officers with the RN, they had a squadron in the Med and Indian Ocean protecting shipping.



Even before then, in late 1914 the Japanese cruiser Ibuki escorted the ANZAC Convoy ships from New Zealand to Australia before departing for Egypt. When signals arrived with the combat ships that the German raider Emden was in the area on their way through the Indian Ocean, Ibuki's captain requested the honour of engaging with the German vessel, but HMAS Sydney was sent instead, despite the Ibuki being more powerful than the Aussie cruiser.

Ibuki-class armored cruiser - Wikipedia 

HIJMS Ibuki with HMAS Melbourne escorting the first ANZAC convoy | Australian War Memorial (awm.gov.au)

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## gkjl (May 17, 2021)



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## SaparotRob (May 17, 2021)

Those are great shots!

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## Gnomey (May 20, 2021)

Good shots!


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## Glider (May 20, 2021)

UK F4 on USS Saratoga


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## GrauGeist (May 20, 2021)

Spitfire lands aboard USS Hancock (CV-19), PTO





_(Image source: National WWII Museum)_

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## The Basket (May 21, 2021)

The IJN thing was an alliance between Japan and UK against Russia.

But Russia went into meltdown around 1917 and the Russians were no longer a threat.

So the next Japan UK alliance could only be against the USA. The Japanese would fight USA in Pacific and UK in the Atlantic.

And so UK scrapped it. Didn't want war with USA I guess. Also the Washington Naval Treaty put paid to any future arms race against USA anyway. So Japan was no longer required.

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## gkjl (May 22, 2021)

Hot Shots

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## nuuumannn (Jul 26, 2021)

Ah, yes, the Folland Sea Gnat!  The 'carrier' was a deck built onto a disused lot as a movie set, with a bit of movie trickery to make it look like a carrier at sea. It was listed as "CV-81"

Those pics of the Argentine navy (CANA) Super Etendards on the US carriers are interesting; note that they don't have their hooks down, which means they are doing touch-and-gos only. CANA engaged with the US Navy on a number of occasions in the 90s and onwards for exercises, the lower two pictures might have been taken during these times; in 1990 the Etendards exercised with the USS Constellation in exercises called Gringo-Gaucho and 20 years later, with the USS Carl Vinson in Exercise Southern Seas. The top picture is aboard the USS Ronald Reagan. The CANA Etendards were not normally carrier-based, certainly not now Argentina no longer has a carrier, but they did carry out operations from the Veinticinco de Mayo in the mid-80s, but these weren't a regular thing. By the time the CANA pilots flew on to Constellation in 1990, the last time the Etendards operated from a carrier was in 1988.

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## Gnomey (Jul 27, 2021)

Nice shots!


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## ARTESH (Jul 27, 2021)

A question about Argentinean Planes on post #50

Are those photos after 2000? or before that?


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## cammerjeff (Jul 27, 2021)

ARTESH said:


> A question about Argentinean Planes on post #50
> 
> Are those photos after 2000? or before that?


I would say 2003 to 2006 as the USS Ronald Reagan (CV-76) was not commissioned until July 2003, and the last F-14's were retired from USN Fleet Service in September 2006.

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## ARTESH (Jul 27, 2021)

cammerjeff said:


> I would say 2003 to 2006 as the USS Ronald Reagan (CV-76) was not commissioned until July 2003, and the last F-14's were retired from USN Fleet Service in September 2006.


Thank you dear Jeff. And if my calculations be right, The photos are taken about 20 years after the Las Malvinas. Am I right?


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## cammerjeff (Jul 27, 2021)

About 22 or so but you are correct.

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## nuuumannn (Jul 28, 2021)

ARTESH said:


> The photos are taken about 20 years after the Las Malvinas. Am I right?



Yes, the war was 1982. During the war CANA had only a handful of Etendards as the transfer had not been complete and France supported the request for Argentina to withdraw from the islands, so technical support dried up quickly. It was some feat of energy that the CANA personnel made the aircraft ready to carry the Exocet in the time period they did. None of the aircraft pictured here took part in the conflict as they had not been delivered.

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## nuuumannn (Jul 28, 2021)

Since it's relevant to this thread now (through a bit of thread drift, unless Exocets have appeared on US carriers), an Exocet on display at the Museo Naval de la Nacion, Tigre, Argentina.





DSC_9916

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## The Basket (Jul 28, 2021)

Las Malvinas? Is that a place?

My info that 19 Etendards were delivered all up.

During the Falklands conflict, 5 Etendards were delivered and 4 were operational. The 5th was used as a spares shed. 5 Exocet were delivered and all 5 were fired.

The operation readiness of the Etendards was unknown by the British and the French did withdraw support.

However it's believed French technical staff still in Argentina supported the Exocet and maybe other countries did too.

The issue was the interface of fitting the Exocet to the Etendards as the aircraft was brand new and mainly navigation as the Etendard had to tell the missile where to head.

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## nuuumannn (Jul 28, 2021)

The Basket said:


> Las Malvinas? Is that a place?


Nah, but Islas Malvinas is! 


The Basket said:


> as the Etendard had to tell the missile where to head.



Target acquisition was done by CANA P-2 Neptunes prior to the Etendards switching on their own radars, which they used sparingly to reduce the chance of being detected. The Etendards fired their missiles at the extremities of their range and turned for home as soon as they fired them.

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## nuuumannn (Jul 28, 2021)

The Basket said:


> However it's believed French technical staff still in Argentina supported the Exocet and maybe other countries did too.



Aerospatiale engineers arrived in Argentina on 12 April, but training had already begun by that time, the squadron was told to begin training on 1 April, crews flying against the Type 42 Destroyer ARA Hercules since it had similar radar fit to British ships. The first Etendards arrived in Argentina in November 1981.

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## The Basket (Jul 28, 2021)

The Etendard told the missile where to go so the navigation between jet and missile had to be spot on.

This was the concern and this is why the British may have thought the Etendards and Exocet would not have been combat ready.

The Etendard as far as I know always acquired the target on their own radar before firing. It would tell the Exocet to go in a general direction and then the Exocet would turn on its own radar as it got close to the target.

3 hits were scored out of 5. 1 on HMS Sheffield and 2 on the Atlantic Conveyor.

The Exocet could be easily decoyed away as it always went for the largest radar return which could be a decoy or a large ship like the Atlantic Conveyor. The RN did use large transport ships as decoys amongst the fleet.

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## Peter Gunn (Jul 28, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> The more I look at the shape of the hull, though, it does seem to say cruiser.


Ignore this, I hit the "REPLY" link by mistake, it's too early in the morning...

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## SaparotRob (Jul 28, 2021)

Been there. Done that.


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## Glider (Jul 28, 2021)

The Basket said:


> The Etendard told the missile where to go so the navigation between jet and missile had to be spot on.
> 
> This was the concern and this is why the British may have thought the Etendards and Exocet would not have been combat ready.
> 
> ...


HMS Glamorgan was also hit by an Exocet that was launched from land using a launcher that was flown to the Island in a C130. Two missiles were flown in but only one launched the other failed. 
The Exocet hit higher up the ship, there is some evidence that the Seacat crew fired at the missile and deflected it up as it hit the deck and skidded a little before exploding.


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## The Basket (Jul 28, 2021)

I heard the Exocet was taken from a navy ship. The Glamorgan was hit high because she was in a very tight turn so the ship was sideways and this is how it hit the hanger.

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## Glider (Jul 28, 2021)

The Basket said:


> I heard the Exocet was taken from a navy ship. The Glamorgan was hit high because she was in a very tight turn so the ship was sideways and this is how it hit the hanger.


The missiles were taken off a destroyer (I think). I wouldn't have thought that turning would alter the height of the missile hitting the HMS Glamorgan. A turn was ordered which could easily have had some effect on the missile but to what degree I don't pretend to know.

When I was in the Navy I saw one of the target ships used in the UK trials of the Exocet and it was a very sobering sight.


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## Thumpalumpacus (Jul 28, 2021)

Glider said:


> I wouldn't have thought that turning would alter the height of the missile hitting the HMS Glamorgan.



I think it would be apparent height. If the ship is turning into the missile, it will heel opposite the turn, and the near side of the ship will lay over.

If the missile is flying, say, 30 foot ASL, and the ship is heeling opposite, it will hit at 30 foot all the same, but because the ship is heeling, the missile will strike apparently-higher in the ship even though there's no change in the missile's altitude. The bridge or upperworks will be relatively closer to sea-level, and so a hit looking to be, say, forty foot up, by damage, still only landed at thirty.

Drachinifel's video about the loss of _Hood_ goes into the geometry of such situations, albeit addressing hull exposure rather than apparent strike-height.


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## The Basket (Jul 29, 2021)

The Exocet hit the hanger which destroyed the helicopter and set of the fuel. If the ship is in a tight turn then the hull could be 45 degrees over and that's how it hit the hanger.

The Argentine had a carrier called 25th of May. This was carrying Skyhawks but due to the various and many human rights abuses of the Junta, the Americans had embargo spares for the Skyhawk. Which is why the Argentine went French and bought Etendards.

Some fools blames the French for this but forget UK tried to sell as much gear to the Argentine and some of this gear was used against the fleet. The bombs used were British bombs and Canberras too. 

The French did stop any help and did fly Etendard Exocet profiles against RN to show what was what.

The Etendards would fly very low to the water. A few metres. Then pop up and do a radar sweep. If they find nothing then they rinse and repeat.

When they do get a radar contact, the coordinates are put into the Exocet and fired. The Etendard will sharp turn and flee as fast as they can. The Etendard can carry 2 Exocet but the attack profile was 1 Exocet and 1 fuel tank. They would refuel from C-130 tankers to give them the range.

The Etendard can carry bombs and guns and Magics but they were never used in more conventional attacks, purely Exocet. I assume in case they get more Exocet which never happened.

For the Royal Navy, the Etendard Exocet combo was a nasty shock as they were designed to fight against the Soviets so a more modern attack flown very well by western trained pilots was not on the cards.

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## nuuumannn (Jul 29, 2021)

The Basket said:


> The Etendard as far as I know always acquired the target on their own radar before firing. It would tell the Exocet to go in a general direction and then the Exocet would turn on its own radar as it got close to the target.



Yes they did, as any radar-guided missile system does, but the P-2 guided the Etendards to the target area and acted as radar picket because the Etendard drivers switched their radars off on route. Firing time with the Etendard radars on was kept to a minimum, which meant that, as in the case of the Atlantic conveyor, the largest target was selected. S-2 Trackers also flew electronic support. Yes, I'm aware of the complexities the Argentine engineers faced in getting the missiles compatible with the aircraft, doing so was an impressive feat in the short time available. The unit had little time to get that right and work up to full proficiency through training, which they did against existing units of the Argentine navy, including the Type 42destroyer ARA Hercules, which was the same type as the Sheffield.

The Atlantic Conveyor also didn't have decoy systems, which the British ships deployed once the missile had been detected by the radar picket ships.

The Glamorous Organ (HMS Glamorgan) was struck by an MM.38 Exocet, which was removed from an ARA destroyer, a former WW2 Sumner Class destroyer ARA Segui. The MM.38 was longer and had a greater range than the AM.38 air-launched variant.

It's fascinating stuff.

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## nuuumannn (Jul 29, 2021)

The Basket said:


> he Argentine had a carrier called 25th of May. This was carrying Skyhawks but due to the various and many human rights abuses of the Junta, the Americans had embargo spares for the Skyhawk. Which is why the Argentine went French and bought Etendards.



In simple terms, pretty much, the Etendards were requested as replacements as the US embargo wouldn't allow newer variants of the A-4 to be purchased by the Argentinians, investigating the Etendard being discussed in 1977. The Veinticinco de Mayo embarked A-4s in the initial stages of the invasion fitted with Sidewinders for air defence, but the CANA A-4s had limited avionics and carried unguided munitions only, the strike raids flown against the British ships in San Carlos Water being flown from land bases after the sinking of the General Belgrano, refuelling done by the trusty FAA KC-130s, practise done at the same time as the Etendard units.

The brutality of the military junta was awful and a few of the personnel that organised the torture and executions of civilians at the ESMA facility in BA took part in the war, including a particularly nasty piece of work named Alfredo Astiz, who was in charge of the Special Forces group that took South Georgia, but was later retaken by British Special Forces. He is currently serving a sentence of life imprisonment for his role in what's been named the Dirty War. But I digress and don't want to bring up politics in this interesting thread.

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## The Basket (Jul 30, 2021)

The Argentine carrier was called 25th of May.


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## The Basket (Jul 30, 2021)

Sadly we cannot bring up politics.

But on a different topic. Have you ever ridden in a helicopter? Wink wink.

Oddly if the Argentine had gone up against the Americans then you would have had Hawkeyes and Tomcats and dead Etendards.

The Etendard would have not got into Exocet range before hitting the water.

True story Bro.


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## nuuumannn (Aug 4, 2021)

The Basket said:


> The Argentine carrier was called 25th of May.


Translated into Spanish, which is the official language of Argentina is Veinticinco de Mayo. The carrier was ARA Veinticinco de Mayo.









ARA Veinticinco de Mayo (V-2) - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre







es.wikipedia.org


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## nuuumannn (Aug 4, 2021)

The Basket said:


> But on a different topic. Have you ever ridden in a helicopter? Wink wink.



Or, how about a Falcon business jet? Wink wink...

Bad stuff happened at ESMA.





ESMA sm


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## The Basket (Aug 5, 2021)

The South American dictatorship with poor human rights record.

'Do You Have the Slightest Idea How Little That Narrows It Down?'

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## The Basket (Aug 5, 2021)

Britain would say that the Falklands War got rid of a military dictatorship with poor human rights record.

With the help of General Pinochet.

***Wink wink***

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## Gnomey (Aug 8, 2021)

Good shots!


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