# The pilot who strafed Rommel



## pbfoot (Apr 28, 2007)

Today I was fortunate enough to meet Charlie Fox who was the pilot of a SpitIX of 412 squadron 
that strafed and wounded Rommel on 17th July 44 also claims to be the last RCAF pilot to fly an operational mission in WW2 as tail end charlie in the last RCAF mission of the war at 90 he was going home to grab his girlfriend and go out dancing quite the character will see him again in a couple of weeks if anyone has a question


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## Lucky13 (Apr 28, 2007)

Good on ye mate and at 90 too!!


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## amrit (Apr 28, 2007)

Sweet. 8) 

When did he find out who his illustrious victim had been? Was it during the war or after? 

I hope you don't mind me saying but he was a member of the last RCAF mission in the _European War_. I only mention it because I currently reading about the Canadian bomber squadrons in Burma.


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## pbfoot (Apr 28, 2007)

From what I understand a P47 also laid claim but Rommel stated it was a Spit so I would guess it was confirmed after they read or had intelligence on Rommels statement . What RCAF bomber sqn in the Burma I'm aware 435-437 transprt squadrons and 413 was in Ceylon and detected the japanese fleet near Ceylon by AVM Birchell VC he lived about 10 miles away from me


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## Erich (Apr 28, 2007)

Neil if you are going to see him please ask how many missions flown in his sq. in the ETO. All with Spits and what marks in 44-45. Any aerial kills in the ETO and or pacific ?

E ~


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## amrit (Apr 28, 2007)

pbfoot said:


> From what I understand a P47 also laid claim but Rommel stated it was a Spit so I would guess it was confirmed after they read or had intelligence on Rommels statement . What RCAF bomber sqn in the Burma I'm aware 435-437 transprt squadrons and 413 was in Ceylon and detected the japanese fleet near Ceylon by AVM Birchell VC he lived about 10 miles away from me



Sorry, PB, my sloppy typing is really going to get me into trouble one day. I was talking about the RCAF* in *the Liberator Squadrons in SEAC.

I'm currently reading the first volume of "Burma Liberators: RCAF in SEAC".

Is there an emoticon for slapped wrist?


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## pbfoot (Apr 28, 2007)

Erich said:


> Neil if you are going to see him please ask how many missions flown in his sq. in the ETO. All with Spits and what marks in 44-45. Any aerial kills in the ETO and or pacific ?
> 
> E ~


Sure will he's quite the character we got him to be the announcer at our airshow


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## pbfoot (Apr 28, 2007)

amrit said:


> Sorry, PB, my sloppy typing is really going to get me into trouble one day. I was talking about the RCAF* in *the Liberator Squadrons in SEAC.
> 
> I'm currently reading the first volume of "Burma Liberators: RCAF in SEAC".
> 
> Is there an emoticon for slapped wrist?


There are couple of survivors of B24 maybe 360 sqn SEAC my Dad plays cards with and Ju88 radar operator


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## amrit (Apr 30, 2007)

Just came across this at the IWM site:



> Squadron Leader J J Le Roux, Commanding Officer of No 602 Squadron RAF in the cockpit of his Supermarine Spitfire Mark IX, "Betty", at B11/Longues, Normandy.
> 
> Le Roux, a South African, joined No. 73 Squadron RAF in France in 1940. He was shot down twelve times, but enjoyed better luck with No. 91 Squadron in 1941 and 1942, shooting down 8 enemy aircraft before joining No. 111 Squadron RAF in North Africa.
> 
> ...


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Apr 30, 2007)

Rommel near death.


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## pbfoot (Apr 30, 2007)

I guess we have dilemna 
Canada's Air Force - News Room
History News Network 



i


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## amrit (Apr 30, 2007)

Yes, we do seem to have one:

602 Squadron RAF

World War II Sites - St-Germain-de-Montgommery (Calvados, France)

And the summary of "Lions Rampant - The Story of 602 Spitfire Squadron" by McRoberts:



> During the Battle of Britain 602 Spitfire Squadron was the longest serving squadron in the front line, had the second highest total of 'kills' and it claimed the lowest pilot loss rate of all. To this can be added the awarding of over a dozen DFC's and amongst its ranks the RAF's top scorer in the battle, Archie McKellar, DSO, DFC and Bar. Throughout the rest of the war 602 became the first unit to dive-bomb in Europe and they effectively put Rommel out of the war by shooting up his staff car in Normandy. Its story contains an account of the first German aircraft to fall, the first SPITFIRE night operation and the winning of the first DFC's of the fighter war.


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## pbfoot (Apr 30, 2007)

"We took off late in the afternoon," recalls Mr. Fox, 84, who lives in London, Ont., and is to be installed as honorary colonel of his old wartime unit, 412 Squadron, at a ceremony this week in Ottawa. 
and his story 

"As soon as we got airborne at Bernieres-sur-mer, we started heading towards Caen and we split up into three sections of four, and we were to look for 'targets of opportunity' -- anything that was moving. It was the other side of Caen, and I saw this staff car coming along between a line of trees on a main road," says Mr. Fox. "I made no motion until it was just about 9 o'clock, and I did a diving, curving attack down and I probably started firing at about 300 yards. I saw hits on it and I saw it start to curve and go off the road -- and by then I'm on my way." 

Mr. Fox says the incident remains "very clear in my mind." And the July 17 entry in his own wartime log book records 

"1 staff car damaged" along with the destruction of a mechanical transport vehicle. At the end of the entry, Mr. Fox had written: 

However, in the case of the Rommel shooting, (first) it was rommels own report that disallowed the American pilots claim that a P-47 had shot him. His statement, which is in the official German records clearly state that it was Spitfires that had fired on them. there was another squadron of Spits flying near the same area but the very accurate squadron logs also disallowed them as well because they had already landed by the time of the incident. Logs don't lie. And they were already written up and entered well before any sure knowledge of the shooting of Rommel had come out. Quite an easy task to verify, once a thorough researcher like Mr. Lavigne had found the official squadron logs of each squadron that was claiming it. Once he had proven what Squadron had done the shooting, thats when he looked up the pilots involved with the mission that day and that eventually led him to Charley Fox. Mr. Lavigne had already found out that Charley was leading the flight and did the shooting. All verified by official flying records of the second world war.
and besides paintings never lie


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## amrit (Apr 30, 2007)

It is interesting, isn't it?

I did wonder what the 602 Association had to say about these new developments and have just emailed their museum. Should be interesting, if I get a reply. I'd quite like to read Mr Lavigne's book or complete article on this, if it's available - do you happen to know PB?

This is why I like history - it's always so fluid.


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## pbfoot (Apr 30, 2007)

if you go to the second link the History News I gave it might help


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## amrit (Apr 30, 2007)

Cheers PB. Unfortunately, it only reports that Michel Lavigne has stated this from his reseach. There's no reference to the original report/book from which this information came from. The last book I can find by him was published in 2002, and not related to this matter.

I'm also intrigued about the statement that he researched the controversy "at Library and Archives Canada" - I hope he checked the ORBs for all the squadrons under consideration at the National Archives, London too.

Oh well, I look around for futher references to him - I'm sure he's written more than is indicated in the newspaper article.

The comments are interesting, especially:



> I have more fuel for the fire on the Rommel story. I too read the recent story about Charlie Fox and found it of interest. I don't necessarily dispute what Mr. Fox had recorded that day in his flight log but is he the only one that noted a similar event? It is entirely possible there were several German staff cars travelling in this area of France on July 17th. I expect more than one would have been targeted by Allied pilots as targets of opportunity. I think the person who wrote the newspaper article (Mr. Lavigne) should at least indicate if there were other possibilities - and there is at least one other. I submit the following official record (Mention in Dispatches) relating 4 members of 193 Squadron who were also credited for injurying Rommel:
> 
> "SWITZER, F/L William Alexander (J21618 ) Mention in Despatches - Overseas - Award effective 1 January 1946 as per London Gazette of that date and
> AFRO 155/46 dated 15 February 1946. Home in Edson, Alberta; enlisted in Edmonton, 11 July 1941. Trained at No.4 ITS (graduated 2 January 1942), No.18
> ...


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## [email protected] (Sep 19, 2007)

My Father was flight Commander in 602 during 1944/45
Chris Leroux landed at 1655 dbst (Double British Summer Time - this was the standard in use at the time in UK). Rommel did not start his journey until 1600 et (European Time) i.e. 1700 dbst. My dad doesn't think that 602 had access to Starship Enterprise's Transporter room, therefore he doesn't think 602 got Rommel! But.... he doesn't know who did. The best way to find out is through reading all the ORBs of the RAF for that day. These are archived at the National Archives at Kew, England. If some one will pay foer my time, I will go there and find out the definitive answer - if I live that long!

Remember the Heroes!


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## v2 (Sep 19, 2007)

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/stories/claim-rommel-2578.html


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## [email protected] (Sep 20, 2007)

The confusion about 602vs 412 was caused by the fact that during 1944, in the UK they were using Double British Summer Time (DBST) i.e two hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time (GMT), In Europe they were using West Europe Time (WET) which is one hour ahead of GMT. Please try to stay with me, it's important! Chris Leroux and 602 Squadron landed at 1655 DBST. Rommel did not start his car journey until 1600 WET i.e. 1700 DBST. Therefore 602 could not have clobbered Rommel. My Dad was "B" Flight Commander 602, and has researched this quite thoroughly.


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## pbfoot (Sep 20, 2007)

so what the times indicate was that 412 sqn was based in Normandy .So were 602 and and 308 sqns still in the Uk? \
I was fortunate enough to drive Charlie Fox around at our airshow this year still pretty spry and a fountain of knowledge in his endeavours to teach the young kids about the sacrifices made by all in the war's


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## Matt308 (Sep 20, 2007)

Not to detract from the seriousness of the discussion, but... Double British Summer Time (DBST). Your kidding right. If that does not smack of John Cleese and Monty Python, I don't know what does.


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## rochie (Oct 13, 2007)

pierre clostermann writes in his book the big show that a patrol from 602 sqdn
consisting of "le roux, jacques remlinger, mouse manson,jonssen the norwegian, robinson and bruce oliver" came upon some bf 109's and then noticed a large convertible escorted by motorcycles heading towards vimoutiers and whilst the rest took on the 109's bruce oliver followed by jacques remlinger dived on the car, oliver firing first and hitting the car.
clostermann goes on to say both pilots were interview at length by a large number of intel types that arrived at the sqdn the same evening.
he also timed the flight as taking off at 15.40 and landing at 16.50 with mouse manson missing.
he believes they were the ones that hit rommel


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## pbfoot (Oct 13, 2007)

Unfortunately records have proven with all the times double talk etc and going through all the archives Brit Canadian German and US that it was a 412 bird


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## Njaco (Oct 13, 2007)

Matt, its people like you that cause unrest, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings! 

Back on track. It does seem with the time differences that Fox is the culprit.


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## pbfoot (Oct 3, 2008)

And here is Charlie Fox talking about it this year
Aerial Visuals - Locator Search Page


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## Airframes (Oct 3, 2008)

This is personally very interesting to me, PB. Until reading this, I had always thought that it was LeRoux who hit Rommel, but that's by the bye for now. The main thing is, my father, Dominic Fox, only established, about two years ago, that (perhaps distant) relatives in Canada had traced him, and got in touch with him at his home in the North East of England. Now, as I live almost 200 miles away, I didn't get to see much of my old Dad, especially as my disability now limits travel to an extent. But, he did briefly explain that relatives from his side of the family lived in Canada, that one of them had been a pilot during the war (Dad was Army), and that the (I think) grandchildren had been in touch. regretably, I can't find out more, as my Dad (born 1919) passed away last December, and virtually all personal documents etc had been disposed of before the family could intervene. (A rather 'sticky' case that I won't go in to here.) But, I wonder if there is a relationship? It would be remarkable if there is, I know, but interesting to find out.


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## stewart (Oct 11, 2009)

I hate to throw a spanner in the works but the straffing of Rommel was carried out by 2 Spits of 602 Squadron piloted by New Zealander Bruce Oliver and Jaques Remlinger. 6 aircraft were in the flight Pilots,Le Roux( flight leader),Manson,Jonssen, Robinson,Remlinger and Oliver. Remlinger strafed and killed Rommels motor cycle escort after Oliver had strafed Rommels staff car. I did find a Col. Charley Fox in 412 Squadron but no mention of incident in the Squadron History.
All 602 Sqdn. Info. in a book called " The Big Show" by Pierre Closterman D.F.C. or in the 602 Sqdn. web site.


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## pbfoot (Oct 11, 2009)

stewart said:


> I hate to throw a spanner in the works but the straffing of Rommel was carried out by 2 Spits of 602 Squadron piloted by New Zealander Bruce Oliver and Jaques Remlinger. 6 aircraft were in the flight Pilots,Le Roux( flight leader),Manson,Jonssen, Robinson,Remlinger and Oliver. Remlinger strafed and killed Rommels motor cycle escort after Oliver had strafed Rommels staff car. I did find a Col. Charley Fox in 412 Squadron but no mention of incident in the Squadron History.
> All 602 Sqdn. Info. in a book called " The Big Show" by Pierre Closterman D.F.C. or in the 602 Sqdn. web site.



If you check out the facts 602 was flying from the UK and on double standard time amd 412 sqn was on the continent with just standard time , so 602 couldn't have even been there.etter yet read first post


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