# What British weapon represents Britain



## The Basket (Mar 4, 2017)

Webley revolver?
Martini Henry?
SMLE?
Spitfire?
HMS Hood?
What is Britain in wooden or metallic weapon form?
SA-80?
Brodie helmet?
Chieftain?
Land Rover?


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## pbehn (Mar 4, 2017)

Historically it was the sea but in modern times maybe the Spitfire says it best.

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## herman1rg (Mar 4, 2017)

SMLE no question for British forces overall, in terms of aircraft I would say Spitfire as being the most well known by the general public (although the Hurricane etc etc)

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## Robert Porter (Mar 4, 2017)

Speaking as an American, the Spitfire for aircraft for sure. James Bond comes in a close second.

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## The Basket (Mar 4, 2017)

Or maybe HMS Victory or Month Python who knows?
To me the SMLE is more commonwealth to me but the Webley just has a look and design to it.
James Bond and his German blowback...Or maybe a yellow Submarine used in WW2.

The greatest gift Britain gave to the world is the English language. 
Rolls Royce? A rich history.

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## pbehn (Mar 4, 2017)

The Basket said:


> Or maybe HMS Victory or Month Python who knows?
> To me the SMLE is more commonwealth to me but the Webley just has a look and design to it.
> James Bond and his German blowback...Or maybe a yellow Submarine used in WW2.
> 
> ...



I would agree in part, having been on the Victory I can hardly imagine spending a night on it let alone years with 850 other. Nelson spent two years continually at sea in the lead up to Trafalgar which is probably where the RNs obsession with discipline and cleaning polishing things comes from. 

It is a quirk of RN bureaucracy that sailors without a ship are assigned to a ship regardless. In WW2 both my father and father in law served on "HMS Victory" while training.

As a Briton myself I cant really comment on a "greatest gift" myself though in my opinion the English language came about by accident while Magna Carta and Habeas Corpus were by design.


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## stona (Mar 4, 2017)

An acid tongue 
Cheers
Steve


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## Robert Porter (Mar 4, 2017)

Ah English. As divisive as it is inclusive as a language. I recall visiting some friends of my British wife in England for dinner. At the conclusion of dinner I commented that it had been "quite nice". The hosts looked put out, and my wife was horrified, exclaiming that I did not mean it. To which I replied I certainly did mean it, it was quite nice. I was informed later after my wife soothed some ruffled British nerves that quite nice in Britain was the equivalent to it was ok but I would not do it again. Two countries separated by a lot of water and a not so common language. Of course I spent a fair amount of time trying to find this obscure kind of tape called "cello tape" in a local shop at home only to find out it actually meant what we call Scotch (the brand not the country) tape. The list goes on.


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## pbehn (Mar 4, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> At the conclusion of dinner I commented that it had been "quite nice". The hosts looked put out, and my wife was horrified, exclaiming that I did not mean it. To which I replied I certainly did mean it, it was quite nice.



"Nice" is one of THOSE words, illustrated perfectly here.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM-6At4Fok0_


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## Robert Porter (Mar 4, 2017)

Ah that explains it even better!


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## pbehn (Mar 4, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> Ah that explains it even better!


It is an organic evolving language, that scene in the movie possibly re defined what the word means and where it is used. Did your visit come before or after the movie was released?


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## Robert Porter (Mar 4, 2017)

pbehn said:


> It is an organic evolving language, that scene in the movie possibly re defined what the word means and where it is used. Did your visit come before or after the movie was released?


That particular visit was in the early 90's.


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## pbehn (Mar 4, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> That particular visit was in the early 90's.


Well the movie was 1973. To be polite, I would recommend any man to tell their lady friend "That was nice" after a bit of horizontal refreshment, women always appreciate it.

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## pbehn (Mar 4, 2017)

It is the curves that do it, men like curves.

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## vikingBerserker (Mar 4, 2017)

First choice Red Coats, after that I have to go with Brodie Helmet.


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## fubar57 (Mar 4, 2017)



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## Robert Porter (Mar 4, 2017)

And I am unanimous in that!


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## Elmas (Mar 4, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> Ah English. As divisive as it is inclusive as a language. I recall visiting some friends of my British wife in England for dinner. At the conclusion of dinner I commented that it had been "quite nice". The hosts looked put out, and my wife was horrified, exclaiming that I did not mean it. To which I replied I certainly did mean it, it was quite nice. I was informed later after my wife soothed some ruffled British nerves that quite nice in Britain was the equivalent to it was ok but I would not do it again. Two countries separated by a lot of water and a not so common language. Of course I spent a fair amount of time trying to find this obscure kind of tape called "cello tape" in a local shop at home only to find out it actually meant what we call Scotch (the brand not the country) tape. The list goes on.



Due to some recent misunderstandings, EU was compelled to issue a translation guide British-Rest of the world:

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## pbehn (Mar 4, 2017)

Not only funny Elmas but true in most cases.


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## Old Wizard (Mar 4, 2017)




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## buffnut453 (Mar 4, 2017)

A weapon to represent Britain? How about Nora Batty? Here she is, armed, dangerous and replete with wrinkled stockings:

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## pbehn (Mar 4, 2017)

Brains and beauty.


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## Robert Porter (Mar 4, 2017)

While funny, that list is all too true. From experience working at Glaxo, a British company, when we were on conference calls with the head office for anything important we always stated very plainly our understanding of what was said back to the person saying it. While this usually seriously annoyed the British folks on the call it ended up saving a lot of time and effort otherwise wasted by misunderstandings. Brits tend to be masters of sarcasm and understatement which does not translate well especially without benefit of body language. And I am personally tone deaf when it comes to sarcasm. If you say something to me in a work setting I take it very literally and if it is not what you actually meant then learn to speak plainly.


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## Snautzer01 (Mar 4, 2017)

Bletchley Park, secret, brilliant, ingenious and the most devastating weapon used in the war. If you have read the Ultra messages you know what they were capable of.

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## stona (Mar 4, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> Brits tend to be masters of sarcasm and understatement which does not translate well especially without benefit of body language.



As when British Brigadier Tom Brodie reported to the US General Robert Soule that _"things are a bit sticky, sir,"_ when he meant that he was being attacked by 10,000 Chinese at the Imjin River?
Cheers
Steve


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## pbehn (Mar 4, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> While funny, that list is all too true. From experience working at Glaxo, a British company, when we were on conference calls with the head office for anything important we always stated very plainly our understanding of what was said back to the person saying it. While this usually seriously annoyed the British folks on the call it ended up saving a lot of time and effort otherwise wasted by misunderstandings. Brits tend to be masters of sarcasm and understatement which does not translate well especially without benefit of body language. And I am personally tone deaf when it comes to sarcasm. If you say something to me in a work setting I take it very literally and if it is not what you actually meant then learn to speak plainly.


I worked for years with many nationalities, it is actually just part of the language and discussions. An American in a high position in a company can be as like nailing a blancmange to a wall as any British national when it is required. Perhaps the most difficult were the Japanese and Chinese who for cultural reasons cannot address a client or boss in the negative so every question is replied with "Yes", however "Yes" sometimes just means they have heard the question. Its all part of life's rich pageant, if you think English can be evasive learn French and then listen to a French politician.

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## The Basket (Mar 4, 2017)

Music?
Listening to joy Division love will tear us apart.
Seems our only weapon now is nostalgia


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## pbehn (Mar 4, 2017)

The Basket said:


> Music?
> Listening to joy Division love will tear us apart.
> Seems our only weapon now is nostalgia


It is hard to say how influential music is but there is no doubt visiting Japan and China that the Beatles and the Carpenters had an effect, I couldnt count the number of people I met who learned English through an interest in music lyrics from all over the world, funniest was a Frenchman with a collection of 2000 vinyl singles and LPs most of which were punk rock, the collection was worth a fortune.


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## Gnomey (Mar 4, 2017)

Iconically you would say the Spitfire. But then in the background you've got the red coats, Bletchley Park etc. A hard choice to pick just one that's for sure.

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## The Basket (Mar 4, 2017)

When I was in Spain for a few months plenty of Spanish said Beatles huge influence and even saw a Beatles poster in the post office. To learn English to understand lyrics is fine by me.

Liverpool certainly does a good trade in Beatles nostalgia.

Cultural bombardment by the English language certainly has an effect. Although the Sex Pistols only did one album so how your French friend has thousands of punk albums is amazing! I would wager most English speakers wouldn't have a Foriegn language album.


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## The Basket (Mar 4, 2017)

To be honest I would love to fire a SMLE. It so much part of my heritage and so much part of my history. That's a possibility but flying a Spitfire or meeting John Lennon less so.
Although I probably prefer a P14 more!


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## Robert Porter (Mar 4, 2017)

pbehn said:


> I worked for years with many nationalities, it is actually just part of the language and discussions. An American in a high position in a company can be as like nailing a blancmange to a wall as any British national when it is required. Perhaps the most difficult were the Japanese and Chinese who for cultural reasons cannot address a client or boss in the negative so every question is replied with "Yes", however "Yes" sometimes just means they have heard the question. Its all part of life's rich pageant, if you think English can be evasive learn French and then listen to a French politician.


Oh agreed! On all accounts. I too have worked with folks from all over. Including Japan, and my Daughter in Law is from Turkey to boot. So I do understand. Have to say though when talking to people from anywhere except the UK we all tend to agree they tend to be the most difficult to deal with. But not all folks from the UK, specifically those in mid level and upper management. Their military tends to be easy to work with and pragmatic as most military folks are. And the rank and file are all fine to deal with. But as my wife describes them the "Toffee Noses" are pretty much useless.


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## pbehn (Mar 5, 2017)

Maybe it depends where you live, for African despots it seems to have been the bagpipes and brass bands, all their armies had them.


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## stona (Mar 5, 2017)

pbehn said:


> Maybe it depends where you live, for African despots it seems to have been the bagpipes and brass bands, all their armies had them.



For European dictators the goose step was quite popular.

George Orwell once wrote words to the effect that an army can only goose step in a country where the population is frightened to laugh at it 

Cheers

Steve

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## pbehn (Mar 5, 2017)

stona said:


> For European dictators the goose step was quite popular.
> 
> George Orwell once wrote words to the effect that an army can only goose step in a country where the population is frightened to laugh at it


Strangely, the Germans gave it up before the war ended while the Spanish and many other nations still have it for ceremonial occasions.

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## herman1rg (Mar 5, 2017)

The Basket said:


> To be honest I would love to fire a SMLE. It so much part of my heritage and so much part of my history. That's a possibility but flying a Spitfire or meeting John Lennon less so.
> Although I probably prefer a P14 more!


I was in the Air Training Corps in the late 1970's early 1980's and we regularly did rifle shooting and I was lucky enough to shoot an SMLE MKIV 0.303 and achieved marksmanship badges, I now own a deactivated one.


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## The Basket (Mar 5, 2017)

Fired 50 rounds through a LSW.
Couldn't go full auto as the switch was stuck. 
Wouldn't take it to barn dance never mind a war.


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## Airframes (Mar 5, 2017)

Thr SMLE, Enfiled No4, and the P14 , are all excellent weapons, and easy to use and fire, as was the L1A1 SLR, a weapon that ensured the target stayed shot !
The current 'standard' British Army small arms (specialist weapons excluded) are about as useful as t*ts on a fish !


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## Graeme (Mar 5, 2017)

*What British weapon represents Britain*

I was thinking along this line. But maybe he was a loose cannon?

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## Elmas (Mar 5, 2017)

But, today I'm afraid...
Nelson: "Order the signal, Hardy."

Hardy: "Aye, aye sir."

Nelson: "Hold on, this isn't what I dictated to Flags. What's the meaning of this?"

Hardy: "Sorry Sir?"

Nelson (reading aloud): " England expects every person to do his or her duty, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religious persuasion or disability.' - What gobbledygook is this for God's sake?"

Hardy: "Admiralty policy, I'm afraid, sir. We're an equal opportunities employer now. We had the devil's own job getting “ England " past the censors, lest it be considered racist."

Nelson: "Gadzooks, Hardy. Hand me my pipe and tobacco."

Hardy: "Sorry sir. All naval vessels have now been designated smoke-free working environments."

Nelson: "In that case, break open the rum ration. Let us splice the main brace to steel the men before battle."

Hardy: "The rum ration has been abolished, Admiral. Its part of the Government's policy on binge drinking."

Nelson: "Good heavens, Hardy. I suppose we'd better get on with it full speed ahead."

Hardy: "I think you'll find that there's a 4 knot speed limit in this stretch of water."

Nelson: "Damn it man! We are on the eve of the greatest sea battle in history. We must advance with all dispatch. Report from the crow's nest, please."

Hardy: "That won't be possible, sir."


Nelson: "What?"

Hardy: "Health and Safety have closed the crow's nest, sir. No harness; and they said that rope ladders don't meet regulations. They won't let anyone up there until proper scaffolding can be erected."

Nelson: "Then get me the ship's carpenter without delay, Hardy."


Hardy: "He's busy knocking up a wheelchair access to the foredeck Admiral."

Nelson: "Wheelchair access? I've never heard anything so absurd."

Hardy: "Health and safety again, sir. We have to provide a barrier- free environment for the differently abled."

Nelson: "Differently abled? I've only one arm and one eye and I refuse even to hear mention of the word. I didn't rise to the rank of admiral by playing the disability card."

Hardy: "Actually, sir, you did. The Royal Navy is under- represented in the areas of visual impairment and limb deficiency."

Nelson: "Whatever next? Give me full sail. The salt spray beckons."

Hardy: "A couple of problems there too, sir. Health and safety won't let the crew up the rigging without hard hats. And they don't want anyone breathing in too much salt - haven't you seen the adverts?"

Nelson: "I've never heard such infamy. Break out the cannon and tell the men to stand by to engage the enemy."


Hardy: "The men are a bit worried about shooting at anyone, Admiral."

Nelson: "What? This is mutiny!"


Hardy: "It's not that, sir. It's just that they're afraid of being charged with murder if they actually kill anyone. There are a couple of legal-aid lawyers on board, watching everyone like hawks."

Nelson: "Then how are we to sink the Frenchies and the Spanish?"

Hardy: "Actually, sir, we're not."

Nelson: "We're not?"

Hardy: "No, sir. The French and the Spanish are our European partners now. According to the Common Fisheries Policy, we shouldn't even be in this stretch of water. We could get hit with a claim for compensation."

Nelson: "But you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil."

Hardy: "I wouldn't let the ship's diversity coordinator hear you saying that sir. You'll be up on disciplinary report."

Nelson: "You must consider every man an enemy, who speaks ill of your King."

Hardy: "Not any more, sir. We must be inclusive in this multicultural age. Now put on your Kevlar vest; it's the rules. It could save your life"

Nelson: "Don't tell me - Health and Safety. Whatever happened to rum, sodomy and the lash?"

Hardy: As I explained, sir, rum is off the menu! And there's a ban on corporal punishment."

Nelson: "What about sodomy?"

Hardy: "I believe that is now legal, sir."

Nelson: "In that case................... Kiss me, Hardy."

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## Capt. Vick (Mar 5, 2017)

Boiled meat


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## Robert Porter (Mar 5, 2017)

That is indeed a weapon as is "Bubble and Squeak"


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## Glider (Mar 5, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> Oh agreed! On all accounts. I too have worked with folks from all over. Including Japan, and my Daughter in Law is from Turkey to boot. So I do understand. Have to say though when talking to people from anywhere except the UK we all tend to agree they tend to be the most difficult to deal with. But not all folks from the UK, specifically those in mid level and upper management. Their military tends to be easy to work with and pragmatic as most military folks are. And the rank and file are all fine to deal with. But as my wife describes them the "Toffee Noses" are pretty much useless.


A umber of years ago I worked on an IT project with the EU representing the UK INsurance Brokers defining the rules for electronic trading (this was before the Internet) and there were representatives from France, Switzerland, Spain, Germany, the EU, Italy and the USA.
It was interesting how the national stereotypes seemed to be displayed

The French had already done it, when you knew they hadn't
The Germans were always correct and wouldn't deviate from the theoretical rule book, even though in the real world they did
The Swiss, well they knew how to party
The Italians always promised to deadlines that you knew they couldn't make as they were imposiible
The EU reps started at 09.00 and not a minute before, and finished at 17.00 not a minute later
The Spanish were always taking longer than the rest for lunch
And the USA were the only group to bring a lawyer

Interestingly enough this was an actual set of meetings

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## Glider (Mar 5, 2017)

I missed one observation, the Weapon that most defines the British is of course 

Roll of drums

Tea

How could it be anything else!!

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## Shortround6 (Mar 5, 2017)

Glider said:


> I missed one observation, the Weapon that most defines the British is of course
> 
> Roll of drums
> 
> ...



In which case the accompanying British weapon must be the Vickers Machine gun. Just a few belts fired non-stop will bring the water in the cooling jacket to just the right temperature ( a little gun oil in the tea just fortifies it).

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## Robert Porter (Mar 5, 2017)

Glider said:


> A umber of years ago I worked on an IT project with the EU representing the UK INsurance Brokers defining the rules for electronic trading (this was before the Internet) and there were representatives from France, Switzerland, Spain, Germany, the EU, Italy and the USA.
> It was interesting how the national stereotypes seemed to be displayed
> 
> The French had already done it, when you knew they hadn't
> ...


Yep, you pretty well nailed it, of course now the EU brings lawyers for everyone.

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## stona (Mar 6, 2017)

For the importance of tea to the British Army I suggest reading anyone of Spike Milligan's war memoirs. In fact read them anyway. 'Adolph Hitler: My Part in His Downfall' is the funniest book I have ever read.
Maybe humour is a much underrated British weapon 
Cheers
Steve

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## stona (Mar 6, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> of course now the EU brings lawyers for everyone.



Not for us, at least in a couple of years time. We'll have to bring our own 
Cheers
Steve

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## The Basket (Mar 6, 2017)

The Vickers machine gun hot water for tea trick has often thought to be apocryphal but certainly happpend at least once! 
Wasn't as oily as you would imagine.

The effect of a hot cup of tea on a cold night is like a gift from the gods.

So the Vickers is the greatest British weapon representative as it Makes tea and is one of the most reliable weapons ever made.

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## The Basket (Mar 6, 2017)

Spike Milligan
Sigh.
Maybe he is a symbol of comedy and weaponry as he served as a lance bombardier in the ww2
He was a very funny man.


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## parsifal (Mar 6, 2017)

The Australian application of british understatement....


"You could say that" = "maybe but you are probably an idiot"
"You would say that" = "you are an idiot"


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## pbehn (Mar 6, 2017)

parsifal said:


> "You could say that" = "maybe but you are probably an idiot"
> "You would say that" = "you are an idiot"


I don't know why this is a point of discussion, Google "He would say that wouldn't he?" It sounds like an every day statement but Google takes you straight to Mandy Rice Davies. It is part of language.
Mandy Rice-Davies - Wikipedia


No President of the USA will ever say "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" because the last one that did was being "economical with the _actualité", _which if you Google takes you to Kenneth Clarke (a British politician).
Alan Clark - Wikipedia
Dear old Rupert Murdoch is an Australian, also a master of miss speaking. Personally I hope to move to the USA because having watched a lot of criminal dramas from there I can spot a criminal in 2 seconds, they all have British home counties acting school accents. Being a cross between a Smoggie and a Tyke I will be as safe as houses.


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## nuuumannn (Mar 6, 2017)

Based on the rapid expansion of the British Empire in the 18th and 19th Centuries, add Gunboat Diplomacy to 'tea'.



pbehn said:


> No President of the USA will ever say "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" because the last one that did was being "economical with the _actualité",_



You gotta admire a president who was impeached for getting is wang out, rather than for something actually serious, like, I dunno, constantly lying, communications with the Russians when so many have said it didn't happen, tax evasion...


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## pbehn (Mar 6, 2017)

nuuumannn said:


> You gotta admire a president who was impeached for getting is wang out, rather than for something actually serious, like, I dunno, constantly lying, communications with the Russians when so many have said it didn't happen, tax evasion...



I was purely speaking about how language changes and big statements can change the use of a word almost overnight. There is no doubt that Mr Trump has and will mangle my language for the next few years. Whether the changes are seen as positive or negative depends on what he does.

I had Blair as a Prime Minister, I am accustomed to lies in politics (sadly)


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## nuuumannn (Mar 6, 2017)

Yep, pbehn, so did I, I lived in the UK under Blair and Major; managed to narrowly miss Thatcher. Yes, granted, all politicians lie, but using that as an excuse shouldn't be a justification for it, if one does, especially as often as... Getting too politicky.


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## pbehn (Mar 6, 2017)

nuuumannn said:


> Yep, pbehn, so did I, I lived in the UK under Blair and Major; managed to narrowly miss Thatcher. Yes, granted, all politicians lie, but using that as an excuse shouldn't be a justification for it, if one does, especially as often as... Getting too politicky.


As I said, I was purely talking about language and how it changes. I was in Paris when Major was put in to power but working in Scotland when Blair was elected, having heard various EU politicians say "There can be no democratic objection to the EU project" or variations on that theme I have no idea what is going on in my own country let alone the European continent and as for the USA and other nations I get a 10 second sound bite which I doubt anyone here would recognize.

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## stona (Mar 7, 2017)

pbehn said:


> I don't know why this is a point of discussion, Google "He would say that wouldn't he?" It sounds like an every day statement but Google takes you straight to Mandy Rice Davies. It is part of language.
> Mandy Rice-Davies - Wikipedia



The actual quote is _"well he would_ [deny even having met her] _wouldn't he"
_
It sounds much better than her reply recalled by another lawyer present.
_"Of course it's not untrue that I have had relations with Lord Astor. I'm not going to perjure myself in court."_
What she actually said doesn't matter, even the alleged quote is almost invariably misquoted in common usage today, as in Pbehn's post above.
It's not really an expression at all. It's just a reply to a question which, in the context of a reply to a barrister about one of the upper classes who was alleged to have had been having 'below stairs' sex with a young lady of more modest birth and somewhat loose morals by the hypocritical standards of the day, resonated with the majority of the British people.

She did alright for herself did Mandy, and had a nice turn of phrase. Anyone who can describe their life as_ "one slow descent into respectability" _is alright with me.

Cheers

Steve

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## The Basket (Mar 7, 2017)

I don't think I need to explain this....

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## stona (Mar 7, 2017)

I would seriously suggest that a weapon to represent Britain and her maritime empire should be a ship. _Victory_ is a good call, but I would go for _Dreadnought_.

Aeroplanes are too modern, they are such parvenu 
The RAF survived by being the poor relation. It's percentage of defence spending didn't break 10% until 1924, 15% by 1930, and was still only 20% in 1935.
I'm afraid I can't allow the Spitfire (or Lancaster, Mosquito or anything else with wings)!

Cheers

Steve


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## buffnut453 (Mar 7, 2017)

How about the longbow? Agincourt and all that...plus, it was the origin for the quintessentially English gesture for telling someone to go away in short, sharp jerky movements.






V for Victory my *rse!

Gets my vote!


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## The Basket (Mar 7, 2017)

We start getting into the sticky wicket of English and British which is a nest of vipers.
Since it's British then the longbow has to be declined. 
HMS Dreadnought is perhaps the leader. Represents industry, power and navy in one swoop although the career of Dreadnought is below par.

An old left winger called Tony Benn once said that Concorde should be in a museum not only as an aircraft but representative of when UK made something.


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## buffnut453 (Mar 7, 2017)

Yeah...could get messy trying to differentiate "English" vs "British", although there certainly were Welsh archers at Agincourt and, frankly, I'd be amazed if there weren't a few Irish and Scots thrown in. After all, each of the nations likes a good brawl every once in a while.


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## Robert Porter (Mar 7, 2017)

To the great unwashed and undereducated masses I still assert it would be the Spitfire. And even then some would think we were talking about a dragon or something. Agincourt is to little known nowadays to factor. Plus if I read the question correctly it was what weapon the rest of the world thinks of as representative of Britain. So you UK folks don't get to vote!


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## pbehn (Mar 7, 2017)

buffnut453 said:


> Yeah...could get messy trying to differentiate "English" vs "British", although there certainly were Welsh archers at Agincourt and, frankly, I'd be amazed if there weren't a few Irish and Scots thrown in. After all, each of the nations likes a good brawl every once in a while.


Until the introduction of passports people were what they said they were, only the wealthy were important. During the Napoleonic wars there were Irish regiments on both sides. If an army was paying some chose to fight in it whether they believed in its cause or not.

I always thought that the longbow was replaced by the cross bow because it was more sophisticated and damaging in battle. I was surprised to read that it was the training required to fire a longbow that was the problem. It took years to train to fire a longbow and a longbowmans skeleton shows deformities caused by doing it. Never shown on historical drama they must have been a group of strange looking critters, with some muscles massively over developed. A modern bow has a draw force of about 60ib wheras bows recovered from the Mary Rose have draw weights up to 180ib, firing one 10 times a minute takes huge strength.


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## pbehn (Mar 7, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> To the great unwashed and undereducated masses I still assert it would be the Spitfire. And even then some would think we were talking about a dragon or something. Agincourt is to little known nowadays to factor. Plus if I read the question correctly it was what weapon the rest of the world thinks of as representative of Britain. So you UK folks don't get to vote!


Having worked in France they are well aware of the English longbow, however they are more aware of when they won against it. Paris has a gare de Austerlitz while London has a Waterloo station for this reason. King Richard 1st (the lionheart) is a hero in British culture, however he is also a hero in French culture and many French are unaware he had any English title, in France he is the Duke of Normandy Richard coeur de lion. In this I must say the French have a point because the English language did not exist at the time.


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## Robert Porter (Mar 7, 2017)

I probably should have clarified, outside Europe. A small informal sample just conducted amongst folks here, most college educated, associated the Long Bow with Robin Hood mostly! And while several knew of Agincourt none associated it in this context. However same sample group identified the Spitfire as both British and a weapon! When asked about the British navy most thought of sailing ships.


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## Marcel (Mar 7, 2017)

Best British weapon was sir Winston's cigar.

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## Robert Porter (Mar 7, 2017)

Or his dry wit and scathing conversational ability...

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## pbehn (Mar 7, 2017)

Robert Porter said:


> amongst folks here, most college educated, associated the Long Bow with Robin Hood mostly! .



The legend of Robin Hood like all legends had some basis. In the Robin Hood stories the evil Sheriff is collecting taxes for the king, the King being Richard 1st (lionheart) who was on the Crusades unaware how much his evil brother was taxing the nation.

It made a good story but is 99% BS. In Richards 10 year reign as king he spent 6 months in England, he spent more time in Hollywood movies.


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## The Basket (Mar 7, 2017)

The English language did exist in 1199 although our Norman conquerors thought they were French and spoke French.
The first king that was said to speak English as a first language was Henry V in 1413. Robin Hood was either based on someone or fictional but it's odd that an English hero is basically Batman. 
I do think the Spitfire is probably the most known. SMLE and HMS Dreadnought is for us...Or P14 in my case.


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## vikingBerserker (Mar 7, 2017)

I'm sticking with the Red Coats as you don't need a lot of knowledge to know what it represents. 

I think the SMLE and HMS Dreadnought you have to have some knowledge to recognize them. When I see a Spitfire my first thought has always been The Battle of Britain.

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## nuuumannn (Mar 7, 2017)

The Basket said:


> An old left winger called Tony Benn once said that Concorde should be in a museum not only as an aircraft but representative of when UK made something.



And true to Mr Benn's word, they all are now! Except the ones the French buggered.

Nothing says Great Britain like a road in rural Southland, New Zealand - about as far from the heart of the Empire as you can get, called Rule Road, as in 'Empire Rule'.

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## The Basket (Mar 8, 2017)

Road in New Zealand. Not calle or strasse or rue or weg or doroga...Road. So that actually speaks volumes and probably the most obvious mark today of British colonial rule.
In Liverpool there were roads named after local bigwigs from the glory days of the port. It was found out that some of the names were slave traders and so they changed them. Unfortunately, one of them was called Penny Lane and later became a Beatles song. They didn't change this road. Political correctness V tourism.


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## stona (Mar 8, 2017)

Well known Bristolians 'Massive Attack' would not play the Bristol Colston Hall because it was funded by a family who had earlier made their money in the slave trade, but then just about everything in Bristol is founded on similar money. You have to draw a line somewhere.

The abolition of slavery in 1833 (not the abolition of the slave trade which started with an Act of 1807) triggered the biggest government compensation scheme in British history, only surpassed by the buy out of financial organisations following the banking collapse of a few years ago. The records of the Slave Compensation Commission, set up to manage the distribution of the £20 million (in 1830s money) compensation, provide a more or less complete census of slave-ownership in the British Empire in the 1830s. Records for the people enslaved are, sadly but obviously, far less complete.

Cheers

Steve

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## herman1rg (Mar 8, 2017)

Can somebody set up a Poll?


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## bobbysocks (Mar 8, 2017)

i am going to say
1 lee enfield
2 sten ( or stirling ) machinegun
3 Bren gun
4 spitfire


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## Bucksnort101 (Mar 8, 2017)

The Basket said:


> Or maybe HMS Victory or Month Python who knows?
> To me the SMLE is more commonwealth to me but the Webley just has a look and design to it.
> James Bond and his German blowback...Or maybe a yellow Submarine used in WW2.
> 
> ...




Monty Python as a weapon, surely must be referring to the "Killer Joke" episode? That aside, this day in age I'd have to say the Sptfire. Bren gun would be up there as well.


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## Airframes (Mar 8, 2017)

Sterling was post war, loosely based on the Patchett, which in turn was based on two German designs, and the Bren was originally Czech, designed and built by CZ in Bruno, Czecheslovakia, and licence built, after conversion to .303 (hence curved magazine), at Enfield, UK.
The weapon representing Britain could well have been 'Bully Beef' - if not eaten, the tins could be thrown at the enemy !!


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## The Basket (Mar 8, 2017)

Bren was a Czech design so not the most British of weapons.
Comedy and satire can be nasty for your average despot so could be classed as a propaganda weapon.
Us experts can wax lyrical on how great the Enfield P-13 rifle was...Or I do...But Joe Q six-pack don't know much about stuff but the Spitfire does meet the criteria.

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## The Basket (Mar 8, 2017)

Tinned food was as vital in the ww1 as bullets. Not much shooting if your soldiers are starving to death.
In yet olde days, troops had to garrison over winter due to food availablity. But with canned goods you can shoot your rifle all year long.

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## stona (Mar 9, 2017)

The Basket said:


> Tinned food was as vital in the ww1 as bullets. Not much shooting if your soldiers are starving to death.



Wasn't canning invented by a Frenchman?

Cheers

Steve

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## stona (Mar 9, 2017)

Apparently the Frenchman, Nicholas Appert, used bottles to preserve food for Napoleon's army (boo, hiss), so we can discount him.

It was an Englishmen, Peter Durand, with a suspiciously French looking surname, who first used tin containers. The system went into commercial production in 1813, just in time for the Battle of Waterloo 

Another Briton, Thomas Kensett, emigrated to the US taking the method to New York with him.

Cheers

Steve


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## Robert Porter (Mar 9, 2017)

Ah, so those are the buggers we have to thank for C and K rations! Wonder if I can dig em up to kill em again. Course beats the alternative of spoiled food!


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## pbehn (Mar 9, 2017)

stona said:


> Apparently the Frenchman, Robert Durand, used bottles to preserve food for Napoleon's army (boo, hiss), so we can discount him.
> 
> It was an Englishmen, Peter Durand, with a suspiciously French looking surname, who first used tin containers. The system went into commercial production in 1813, just in time for the Battle of Waterloo
> 
> ...


Obviously Robert Durand the Frenchman was a sworn enemy of Peter Durand the Englishman?

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## Airframes (Mar 9, 2017)

Yes, he blew his nose in his general direction ..............


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## The Basket (Mar 10, 2017)

One aspect of ww1 is technology which wasn't bullets or bombs but had a major impact on war.
Tinned food, radio, internal combustion engine, telephone, photography, chemistry and even women in the work place allowed total war on a 24 hour scale. 
A study of ww1 cannot be a study of war but also the social and technology advances from medicine to women's rights.


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## stona (Mar 10, 2017)

pbehn said:


> Obviously Robert Durand the Frenchman was a sworn enemy of Peter Durand the Englishman?



That was a typo! The Frenchman who bottled food stuffs to preserve them was Nicholas Appert. I have edited my erroneous post.

The surname Durand (or Durant) is of French origin, but dates back to the Norman conquest. Alternatively, one of his ancestors might have been a Huguenot, as is the case for General de la Billiere who commanded British forces in the Gulf War, or a friend of mine with the surname Bricusse. 

Cheers

Steve


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## pbehn (Mar 10, 2017)

The Basket said:


> One aspect of ww1 is technology which wasn't bullets or bombs but had a major impact on war.
> Tinned food, radio, internal combustion engine, telephone, photography, chemistry and even women in the work place allowed total war on a 24 hour scale.
> A study of ww1 cannot be a study of war but also the social and technology advances from medicine to women's rights.


I worked for a while at a pipe factory near Dusseldorf called Rath. Every time we had visitors from my company they were given a "mill tour". Of course it was the same thing every time and I started to notice things. At the start of the tour the manager always said "Mannessmann Rath was built to satisfy an increased demand for seamless pipes in the early nineteen hundreds" with a strange smile on his face.

The "increase in demand" was for artillery gun barrels.

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## pbehn (Mar 10, 2017)

stona said:


> That was a typo! The Frenchman who bottled food stuffs to preserve them was Nicholas Appert. I have edited my erroneous post.
> 
> The surname Durand (or Durant) is of French origin, but dates back to the Norman conquest. Alternatively, one of his ancestors might have been a Huguenot, as is the case for General de la Billiere who commanded British forces in the Gulf War, or a friend of mine with the surname Bricusse.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying. It is a fact though that the ideas and patents were exchanged or bought between those English and Frenchmen even though its military importance was known. I suspect that at the time people were not as "sworn enemies" as governments would like to think.


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## nuuumannn (Mar 31, 2017)

'Used to know a guy called Norman Conquest'; wasn't that a comedy gag once?

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