# Why?



## Aggie08 (Feb 21, 2007)

In light of the somewhat recent heated debates in other parts of this forum, I'm curious as to why there is such hostility displayed towards some members. I'm not going to name anyone but this does not seem to be conducive to the learning and community-oriented nature of the website. This is easily one of the best forums out there and I'd hate for it's reputation to be smeared.

It has been pointed out that some here are not given to courtesy, that's fine, I'm more concerned with the outright attacks of others' opinions. I also understand that a lot of it is joking around and it's usually pretty entertaining. It's gone a little too far when people leave though.

Again, not attacking anyone, just thinking maybe it could be toned down a bit to reflect the professional/knowledgeable amateur opinions displayed here.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 21, 2007)

It happens Aggie....

....Nothing more than I can really say. The people that wish to be here and teach and learn will be here. You have to remember this is cyberspace man. It is not real life, you have to be thick skinned.


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## Chief (Feb 21, 2007)

Also, you have to realize that the condesending of people doesn't normally happen without a reason. 

Though, like Adler says, it happens. You're talking to people. People tend to have bad days and vent towards someone whether he/she deserves it or not.

You just have to learn to suck it up and roll with the punches.


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## Emac44 (Feb 21, 2007)

Aggie if this is because Yak and I had a head on. Its over and it was over a difference of opinion, between Yak and myself and it was between 2 grown men. Things were said on both sides and both sides regret saying them. Things were sorted out very quickly and I hope you don't take it too personally or to heart. What was said and done can't be unsaid. Just Yak and I have agreed to disagree and no further said. 

Please do not leave the forum due to 2 men who had a disagreement of a type through cyber space and the internet


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## timshatz (Feb 21, 2007)

Also think the forum is the way it is because the moderators police it well and keep it on the straight and level. It is a well run forum because of their work. They oughta get an "official attaboy" for good judgement. Flamers do not control the board. You only have to look at what happened to "Yahoo! Discussion" feature on their site to see what happens when there are no or few restrictions. Anarchy. 

There will be head to head confrontations. There should be. One of the tests of an idea (which is frequently used on this board) is to toss it out there to be trashed and see what comes back. Similar to the scientific method, it allows testing to happen. Most of the testing done on this board is pretty specific and not generally personal. But if you have an idea on Air Power History, this is a good place to come to find out if there are holes in it. Sometimes the head to heads get heated. So be it. But usually, the modirators will tame it back if it starts getting out of hand. Like a ref in a boxing match, the blows get thrown but the rabbit punches and below the belt stuff is kept to a minimum.

I see your point about some people getting flamed. It happens and in some cases it is unavoidable. But coming in with an ego and trying to set the rules is a good way to end up that way. In a community, even one on the internet, you play by the rules set up or go elsewhere.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 21, 2007)

I agree. For the most part his forum has lots of really good people who just want to talk airplanes. Sometimes heads butt, but in the end it is all said and good and most of us learn something about WW2 aircraft from it.


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## Aggie08 (Feb 22, 2007)

I think the moderators have done a fine job of keeping the nutjobs out. 

Emac, I wasn't referring to your incident, it was a genuine disagreement. I was referring to a more pointless and ugly argument that didn't seem to have any valid point. I was shocked more than anything at the lack of restraint because I haven't seen anything quite like it since I've been on the forum. I understand that disagreements happen and each party has the right to defend his or her stance hopefully in a civilized way which was not what I witnessed. 

I've cooled down now I suppose. It was more of a shock than anything and I hope nothing like that happens again.


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## Emac44 (Feb 22, 2007)

Its fine Aggie. Just felt I would not like to feel you left the forum because of what Yak and I got into. I believe Yak would possibley feel the same, but that would be speaking out of place as I can't speak for him I am just summizing that is how he would feel. Sorry Aggie if I misunderstood, but your comments came about 24 hours after Yak and I head butted. But it is cool. My error


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## Yakpilot (Feb 22, 2007)

Emac44 said:


> Its fine Aggie. Just felt I would not like to feel you left the forum because of what Yak and I got into. I believe Yak would possibley feel the same, but that would be speaking out of place as I can't speak for him I am just summizing that is how he would feel. Sorry Aggie if I misunderstood, but your comments came about 24 hours after Yak and I head butted. But it is cool. My error



Emac and all,

I agree with your with your statement and support the further comments. Our head butting was purely a debate for me and, that is how I viewed it. It did learn some history from it that I did not know. 

Also this is just my opinion… as I know things have different meanings for people.

I feel that those that went before me… went there so I can enjoy… the things that I do today. Freedom of speech is one of them. Think about it… if we live in (and we kind of do) a “watch what you say environment or else” It could be construed as a Fascist type of life. I hate that thought.

When you think about it… what do we become if we can’t exchange ideas and thoughts?
Even if we don’t agree… it is ok. This is part of intelligent society. 

I maybe the rare exception but…. I enjoy a good debate. Emac.. I’d still buy you a beer and tell you to get stuffed (humor).  

I think the Gent in Texas may mean the start of the tread with Marten. Emac and I took it... and ran with it. Marten wasn’t even French LOL!


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## Emac44 (Feb 23, 2007)

Its ok Yak I would return the shout of beer and tell you how to insert that bar stool you was sitting on via the part of your anatomy where horse meets jockey


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## Chingachgook (Feb 23, 2007)

I think there are some good people here, and a few good resources, but I have stopped referring this sight to anyone. I do not wish to be a proponent of a toilet mouthed offensive class of people (moderators). [I have no knowledge of the incedent between Emac and Yakpilot but that sounds like it ended just fine].
I check in from time to time because pbfoot, evangilder, wurger, FLYBOYJ, mkloby, matt308, are all great people, shame about a few of the rest...
Apologies to Alder, because I am not referring to him. However, he should not talk about being thick skinned... he isn't (and neither am I). 
Civility can exist in cyberspace - I can give a long list of forums and newsgroups where it does. If the moderator (s) set a bad example then this is what you get. I am glad that I am not the only one who sees it. It is too bad really. Perhaps they will clean it up and set some standards. 
One only has to read a few posts to know that evangilder is a class act, this site deserves to live up to his level.


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## lesofprimus (Feb 23, 2007)

Hey Ching, here's an infraction for u for being an @sshole and trying to secretly talk about me behind my back.... As a matter of fact, how bout u never show ur lame @ss around here anymore... U were always a turd floating around here, and Im not surprised with ur feeble little soapbox standup diatribe...

This place is run the way it is run, effectively and brutally, and if u dont like it, leave... Whining about it like some little bi*ch aint gonna do anything except have me jump ur sh!t all over again...

And for the record, *please* dont recommend this site to anyone...

Oh and I forgot....


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## Chingachgook (Feb 23, 2007)

That's lovely primus, you think up those words all by yourself? The rest of the crew at ww2online must be so proud of you.

Thanks so much for sending obsenities to my home email where my wife and kids could see them.


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## lesofprimus (Feb 23, 2007)

Ur welcome...


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## lesofprimus (Feb 23, 2007)

Oh and just to let everyone know, ol' Chingy has deleted most of his posts 3 weeks ago.... Talk about a spoiled little brat...


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## Hunter368 (Feb 23, 2007)

Chingachgook said:


> I think there are some good people here, and a few good resources, but I have stopped referring this sight to anyone. I do not wish to be a proponent of a toilet mouthed offensive class of people (moderators). [I have no knowledge of the incedent between Emac and Yakpilot but that sounds like it ended just fine].
> I check in from time to time because pbfoot, evangilder, wurger, FLYBOYJ, mkloby, matt308, are all great people, shame about a few of the rest...
> Apologies to Alder, because I am not referring to him. However, he should not talk about being thick skinned... he isn't (and neither am I).
> Civility can exist in cyberspace - I can give a long list of forums and newsgroups where it does. If the moderator (s) set a bad example then this is what you get. I am glad that I am not the only one who sees it. It is too bad really. Perhaps they will clean it up and set some standards.
> One only has to read a few posts to know that evangilder is a class act, this site deserves to live up to his level.





Ching,

Whatever happened between you and Les/Dan it could not of been any worse than when I joined the site and Dan and I went at it for about 10 pages back and forth. Believe me we both said alot of bad things.....I am surprised now that I was not banned, not sure why I was not (not sure if you remember that arguement or not Dan). What started the arguement was I was bashing USA, Joe and Dan called me on it. After a few days I realized they were right, I was being a azzhole, I said I was sorry. They have made me a better poster and forum user.

But all the Mods are good people, including Dan. I am not brown nosing or hanging off their balls by saying this. They are straight shooters, they call it as they see it. You can argue with them, just be respective and they will be fine. Show tone or be disrespectful and yes you will feel their wrath. You need to have a little bit of thick skin.

Like Dan said this site is run with a iron hand, if you come here thinking you are going to take over or kick peoples azz you will be shown the door. I never have a problem with rules as long as I know the rules up front. You know the rules here....follow them and you will be fine. Get out of line and yes the Mods (Dan the hardest most times) will come down on you.

Keep in mind most of us here are men. Mods are ex-military people. Most of us don't mind rough banter, thats what we are used to. I have never been in the military but I have managed mechanics (7 years) and managed a warehouse full of nothing but blue color hard working men (9 years). I call it shop talk, you call it toilet mouthed...same thing. Most of us are used to it, we have thick skin.

Believe me if Horse (site admin) thought Dan or any other Mod was not doing a good job they would be replaced. This site is Horse's site, he choses the Mods.

But it of course your choice stay or leave it's up to you. I have seen some of your posts and you could add to this site, b/c of that I would like to see you stay.


Aggie,

As far as certain people being "picked on" you need to give detailed accounts of such, vague comments do nothing but get people ticked off. I will say this I never have seen anyone "picked on" that didn't deserve it. Some people that have come here were real dumbazz and we are better off without them. We want this site to be filled with knowledgable respectful people who can all help us expand our knowledge of WW2, most of all on WW2 planes. While it is funny to have a newbie around to burn every once in while we want good quality people here (that and hot babes but I have seen none yet, damn, just a bunch ugly slack jawwed bastards around here).

If I was you Aggie I would not post general vague statements that just stir up trouble. If you are really concerned about it PM a Mod about it or drop it totally. I don't feel this thread was a good idea, I think you should of went about it a different way. IMO


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## Gnomey (Feb 23, 2007)

The way I see it is thus: this site is run how it is and has been run as such for the whole time since I have been here (which is a long time), it works. It keeps the sh*t out and so keeps a balance of people who want to learn against those who just want to create trouble. Besides when did a little swearing harm anyone, for fu*k sake it is the internet it isn't exactly like if you offend someone or someone offends you there are going to come around your house and shoot you for crying out loud. Why can't anyone take the fact that they lost an argument. Just because someone (generally les but that doesn't matter) swears at you and calls you a stupid fu*king noob or an @sshole etc doesn't mean you have to curl up and die that is just fu*king stupid. You know the moderators have the power and generally they use it effectively and yes people will disagree with the means (since when did everyone agree that something was done correctly?). For fu*ksake shut up or put up and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Totally agree with your post as well pb.


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## Matt308 (Feb 23, 2007)

I wondered why I could not see them. As an observer, I wanted to know what the fuss was about. Where's Rodney King when you need him. Alas, probably in jail.


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## Hunter368 (Feb 23, 2007)

Gnomey said:


> The way I see it is thus: this site is run how it is and has been run as such for the whole time since I have been here (which is a long time), it works. It keeps the sh*t out and so keeps a balance of people who want to learn against those who just want to create trouble. Besides when did a little swearing harm anyone, for fu*k sake it is the internet it isn't exactly like if you offend someone or someone offends you there are going to come around your house and shoot you for crying out loud. Why can't anyone take the fact that they lost an argument. Just because someone (generally les but that doesn't matter) swears at you and calls you a stupid fu*king noob or an @sshole etc doesn't mean you have to curl up and die that is just fu*king stupid. You know the moderators have the power and generally they use it effectively and yes people will disagree with the means (since when did everyone agree that something was done correctly?). For fu*ksake shut up or put up and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
> 
> Totally agree with your post as well pb.



Gnomey,

pB? Are you confusing me with pB? We both are Canadian but I am wayyyy younger and better looking. LOL


I agree with you Gnomey just b/c someone (often Dan) calls you a dick or noob does mean anything. 

Ching and Aggie,

Do you really care if I or Chris or Dan or anyone else calls you a "bad name"? I could not give a rats azz if someone call me a name....why should I? Who are they? Do I really care who they are? no

Really guys you need to grow some thicker skin. Like I said before I am not sure what your back grounds are in life but I will tell you this I would be very surprised if you told me you were ever in the military or worked a hard honest blue color job. You guys are coming off a little like pencil pushing or bean counting office workers who get mad when their latte is too strong or their best friend has not called them in weeks so are you are so "upset".

Belly up boys act like men grow some skin.


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## Gnomey (Feb 23, 2007)

Yes, I was Hunter. Sorry about that, sometimes I think the two of you are the same person


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## Emac44 (Feb 23, 2007)

You still want that beer Yak. Not coming into this fight what so ever


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## Matt308 (Feb 23, 2007)

Hunter368 said:


> You guys are coming off a little like pencil pushing or bean counting office workers who get mad when their latte is too strong or their best friend has not called them in weeks so are you are so "upset".



Hey that's hitting a little too close to home.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 23, 2007)

Oh brother!

Seriously people. The way this place is run is like this. If you really want to be here, then there is no problem with any mod. Your stay will be long and enjoyable. 

If you are not a serious aviation scholar then you will be obvious as to not really wanting to be here...

Oh and Ching trust me my skin is thick enough. As long as they dont offend my family, my honor, or my service to my country I dont care what anyone says about me. However if they do want to get into a pissing match they better be thick skinned because I will hold nothing back.

I am actually fairly laid back. I am easy going. I am kind and friendly, but if you piss me off...


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## Hunter368 (Feb 23, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Hey that's hitting a little too close to home.



Well if you are a pencil pusher/ bean counter then you must of smuggled your manhood into the office. You still have some good left in you from your military days. Give it another 10 years and you manhood will shivel up and disappear.


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## lesofprimus (Feb 23, 2007)

Shrivel up and disappear??? U talkin from personal experience hunter lol??


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## Matt308 (Feb 23, 2007)

Nope Hunter, not a military man. Closest I've gotten is working navy shipyard on Arleigh Class missile cruiser and fast frigates and bumping butts with DoD brass in aviation circles. You've got me confused with someone of honor and integrity.


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## Hunter368 (Feb 23, 2007)

lesofprimus said:


> Shrivel up and disappear??? U talkin from personal experience hunter lol??



Hey buddy you are older than me and far closer to needing viagra!


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## Hunter368 (Feb 23, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Nope Hunter, not a military man. Closest I've gotten is working navy shipyard on Arleigh Class missile cruiser and fast frigates and bumping butts with DoD brass in aviation circles. You've got me confused with someone of honor and integrity.



Really you were never in the military? Damn!! I thought you had.

Well now I have just lost soooo much respect for you, crap I was cutting slack all this time b/c I thought you were a ex-military guy.


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## Matt308 (Feb 23, 2007)

Nah. Feel free to disrespect me all you want. I grew as a Marine's son. It kinda like being in the Navy, but with more severe consequences.


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## Hunter368 (Feb 23, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Nah. Feel free to disrespect me all you want. I grew as a Marine's son. It kinda like being in the Navy, but with more severe consequences.



  

Yes I could see that. Could you imagine having Dan as your Father? Yikes


It would be like have a Father that was 1/4 Darth Vader and 1/4 Emperor Palpatine and 1/4 Boba Fett and 1/4 Morgoth.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 23, 2007)

Bugal in the morning to wake you up (followed by metal trash can thrown down the middle of the Room with someone screaming at you), 5 minutes for breakfast in a chow line while standing up, face in the dirt instead of time out in the corner, curfew at 2000 and lights out at 2200!

Sounds like Basic....


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## Hunter368 (Feb 23, 2007)

Gnomey said:


> Yes, I was Hunter. Sorry about that, sometimes I think the two of you are the same person



No problem but remember he is a old timer and not nearly as good looking.


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## Yakpilot (Feb 23, 2007)

Emac44 said:


> You still want that beer Yak. Not coming into this fight what so ever



You know I leave for a couple of hours and the place goes to hell….

This time I’m not the cause too!  

Emac…. I knew this was the place to be when Dan told me…. I was an ungrateful F*ck!

I grew up in NY…. and this is a pus*y wash compared to there.

Besides I’m still resting from our last fist a cuff…..

On the other hand ……we could talk about air planes…..


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## Chingachgook (Feb 23, 2007)

I am not used to this kind of treatment, in my world people act in a civil or professional manner. I am appalled - if this was primus's intent than he has fully achieved his goal (you can all stop PM'ing me his full name now). Hunter and Gonomey you say it is just cyberspace, I disagree, I have been on email, newsgroups, forums etc for over 10 years and never have I run into this low behavior - at least not from someone posing as an adult or a moderator. I see that evangilder has had to close threads because of his degenerate behavior. He is a smear on this site.
You say you are used to it. There is an old analogy that fits here. Throw a frog into a pot of boiling water and he will jump out, put him in a pot of comfortable warm water and you can slowly cook him to death. You guys are cooking in primus's cesspool. 
You say that Dan is military, I find that hard to believe. His behavior is more 'inmate' than 'soldier'. If he does serve in the US military HE IS A TOTAL DISGRACE TO HIS UNIFORM. I have been around US servicemen and woman all my life and I have never seen such despicable action toward civilians. 
Hunter, if you received the kind of language and name calling that I see him dish out to me and to others than I can not see how you could call yourself a man. Have you no self respect? If someone were to use that language to my face, one or the other of us would not remain standing. I have absolutely no respect for this individual and he deserves none. If you tolerate this you lower yourself to his level. 

DON"T TOLERATE IT!


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## evangilder (Feb 23, 2007)

And THAT, you SOB is grounds for banning. BE GONE! You NEVER EVER disparage a man's service to his country. This will NOT be tolerated.


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## evangilder (Feb 23, 2007)

This thread is locked. Aggie, if you have a problem with things on this forum, send a PM to one of the moderators or admins. Do NOT re-open this thread or start a new one. I have had about enough of the bellyaching and BS here and I am about to start dishing out my own brand of whoop-ass. Believe me, you aren't going to like it if I see any more of this crap.


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