# Tom McGuire's Most Exciting Mission...



## lesofprimus (Sep 24, 2004)

I am copying this directly from a book I have here, The Great Book of WW II Airplanes...
Alot of typing here...

During the give and take air battles to and from Rabaul in Oct 43, McGuire (Mac from here on out) flew what he remembered as his most exciting mission...

On Oct 17th, the 431st FS of 475th FG met a Jap formation head on at 23,000 ft... On the first pass, Mac got a Zeke and was promptly jumped from behind by 3 more... Getting seperated from his flight, he was left with one course of action - dive away... Going down to 12,000 ft, he felt as if he were on a huge circular stage: Zekes all around but not a single P-38... Nothing to do but fight it out...

Both Mac and the enemy exchanged numerous passes... Spotting a smoking Lightning, he attempted to help, but was bounced by a flock of fighters... He turned into the formation and engaged... One Zeke blew up, then another... With 3 for the day, it was time to leave, but before he could bank away, the instrument panel disappeared under enemy fire, the left engine broke into flames, and a 7.7 mm round hit him squarely in the wrist... Instrinctivly, he pushed foward on the yoke to get away, going straight down... The then right engine began pouring black smoke and a 20mm round exploded in the cockpit, hitting the yoke...

The rear of the canopy flew off and 5 pieces of shrapnel entered his arm and leg... The -38 was out of control, giving no response to Mac's movements... Only one fear crept into his mind, "Boy, will Nick be sore at me!!!" (He was flying Maj Franklin A Nichols' plane)... 
Trying to get out, Mac became wedged halfway - the oxygen mask was firmly attached over his eyes as the wind tore at him.... Kicking like crazy, he finally came sailing out after falling 5,000 feet... Find the rip cord - it was gone, torn off!!! Another 5,000 feet was gone before he found the D-ring wire trailing behind... 

At 800 feet, Mac yanked the wire, the chute deployed and he hit the water... Getting away from the chute and harness, he inflated his rubber dinghy, but it was full of bullet holes and sank away... As he was going under, a PT boat picked him up and got him to the hospital...

On November 1st, just 2 freakin weeks later, a group of 20 P-38's flew in to Tacloban air field on Leyte, which badly need more fighters... Suddenly a Japanese Tojo fighter appeared... Mac opened up the P-38 full throttle, hit the gear and flap levers, sounded a warning to other pilots, and swung around to face the Tojo... In full view of the Tacloban airstrip, the P-38 pilot attacked and shot down the intruder with one short burst.... The Tojo crashed in flames just outside the field. Finding no other Jap planes, the P-38 pilot circled and landed....

The man really was a hell of a pilot...

Mac climbed down from his beloved Pudgy V and grinned... He had just shot down his twenty-fifth Japanese aircraft.... "This is my kind of place. You have to shoot down Japs to land on your own field..."

McGuire was the commander of the 431st Fighter Squadron of the 475th Fighter Group... The pilots of the 431st felt that McGuire could do things in a P-38 that were virtually impossible... His skill with the P-38 was so extraordinary, he almost defied reality.... He had tremendous faith in his skills as a pilot and the plane he flew....


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 25, 2004)

cool 8) hell of a pilot, hell of a plane...


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## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2004)

I think he was a superb pilot, probably the best -38 pilot ever... He flew that plane like no one else could have... 

Would have been the leading American Ace if he didnt crash with drop tanks into the jungle...


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 25, 2004)

oh dear...


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## evangilder (Sep 25, 2004)

He was one heck of a pilot, although I heard Dick Bong flew like the P-38 was an extension of his body. They were both amazing, not taking anything away from McGuire.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2004)

Even Bong was amazed at McGuires skill and handling of the -38...


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## evangilder (Sep 25, 2004)

Wow, that is pretty amazing. When Lindbergh was flying with McGuire's squadron (he was supposed to be an observer, helping them to find way to conserve fuel), Lindbergh got a Japanese plane on his tail that he couldn't shake. It was McGuire that came to his aid. McGuire splashed the fighter on Lindbergh's tail, so Lindy can thank McGuire for saving his bacon!


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## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2004)

Lindbergh also had a couple of kills too...


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## evangilder (Sep 25, 2004)

I know about the one that he shot down from a P-38. What were the others?


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## lesofprimus (Sep 25, 2004)

I'd have to research it some, but if memory serves me right, he had 3 kills.... I'll look into it ..


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## evangilder (Sep 26, 2004)

Wow! I only heard about 1. Of course, they are not "official", but they were confirmed kills. He was flying Corsairs with the Navy before he flew with McGuire. I wonder if he got any kills while flying the Corsair.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 26, 2004)

So far all i've found is the 1 kill... On July 28th 1944, he shot down a Ki.51 (Sonia) light bomber while flying with the 475th FG... 

He most likely had some ground kills as well, as he did alot of strafing while in the cockpit...


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## evangilder (Sep 27, 2004)

I hadn't heard about the strafing attacks. He was supposed to be an observer. But I could imagine it would be difficult to fly a mission armed and ready and just sit idly by while the other guys have all the fun!


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## lesofprimus (Sep 27, 2004)

Yes I have read several accounts of "Lindy" and strafing... He was told by General Kenney that he should not engage in aerial combat, but strafing would be ok....


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 29, 2004)

i wouldn't mind a spot of strafing some time, must be tons of fun..............


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 29, 2004)

It is  I derive a great deal of satisfaction from it


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

Strafing is like asking a prostitute for sex. There's very little chance you're going to get shot down by what you're hunting.


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## lesofprimus (Sep 30, 2004)

But what about being shot down by whats protecting what ur hunting????


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## plan_D (Sep 30, 2004)

I know, in reference to the prostitute that might be the pimp, or whoremaster.


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## cheddar cheese (Sep 30, 2004)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 1, 2004)

but why would they stop you hunting what you're hunting...........


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## plan_D (Oct 1, 2004)

Because...you've been beating her.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 2, 2004)

just out of interest, how many people here support the ban on fox hunting??


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## lesofprimus (Oct 2, 2004)

I think its stupid to even question the topic... Let alone make a ban... But its ur country so......


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 2, 2004)

so you don't support a ban?


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## lesofprimus (Oct 2, 2004)

No... The fox has a chance to get away....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 2, 2004)

I support the ban. Ban fox hunting, it is cruel.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 2, 2004)

Life is cruel... Go save a dying baby in Ethiopia before worrying about some fox being treated cruelly...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

But thats costs a hell of a lot more, ban the small irritating things first before worrying about the big things.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

The cost of feeding a starving child in Ethiopia or Haiti is around $0.65, or 65 cents.... Thats chump change...

And why is fox hunting irritating to u??? Do they run through ur yard??? Does the horn blowing keep u up at night, or wake u up in the early morning??? 

Or is it the barking and baying of the hounds??? Or maybe its the squeals of the Fox and he's being ripped apart by frenzied dogs.....


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## GermansRGeniuses (Oct 3, 2004)

Shit, I'd shoot the foxes...

Try to, at least; having never been hunting, I can not vouch for the quality of my aim...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

> Do they run through ur yard???



Pretty much. And my Dog gets scared shitless.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

I would think ur dog gets all excited and wants to join the chase, natural instincts and all...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

Nope. When im working on my car and the hunt comes my dog comes running to me and gets in the way, and i have to sit with her until theyre gone before she resumes normal behaviour.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

Maybe ur dog was a fox in a previous life....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

She does look like a fox


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

I thought beastiality was illegal in Britian???


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

Huh? What is "beastiality"?


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

Makin love to the animals..... Like Lanc and his sheep....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

Hey I dont make love to animals  Not yet anyway


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2004)

Well, u did say ur dog looked "Foxy"...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 3, 2004)

I said she looked like a fox


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## lesofprimus (Oct 12, 2004)

Are u an Anit-Hunting nut, or just Anti-Fox hunting???


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 13, 2004)

Just anti-fox hunting


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 13, 2004)

what you think that killing an old fox that will soon die anyway and has spand it's whole like killing farmers livestock is cruel?? well isn't putting down all the tens of thousands of hunting dogs cruel?? and it's been going on for centuries, why ban it now??


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 13, 2004)

Well the hunting dog training will stop after the ban, meaning only the current ones need be killed. And if the fox will die soon anyway, its bound to be better to die quietly than to have loads of dogs chasing you and ripping you apart. The fact that they kill livestock is natural for them, its the farmers fault for failing to protect them well enough. Im bloody glad its being banned with dogs thankyou very much.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 15, 2004)

Its also natural for dogs to hunt and kill many forest creatures such as rabbits and fowl and rodents and ect ect..... 

Foxes arent the only thing on the dinner menu...

Wild dogs hunt in packs..... 

Maybe u can go to the African Savannah and start a protest there over the Thompsons Gazelle Hunting and get that banned too.... Oh wait, that happens naturally in the wild doesnt it??? HHmmmmm...

Gazelle Hunting..... Dogs in a pack.....
Fox Hunting...... Dogs in a pack...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 15, 2004)

Whos side are you on?


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## lesofprimus (Oct 15, 2004)

Ummmmm.. Isnt it obvious.... Not that my choice matters, cause u live there, not me...


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 15, 2004)

Not obvious to me, im retarded.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 15, 2004)

KILL ALL THE FOXES... LET ALLAH SORT EM OUT!!!!

Oh sorry, I meant Al Qaeda.....


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 15, 2004)




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## GermansRGeniuses (Oct 15, 2004)

GermansRGeniuses said:


> s**t, I'd shoot the foxes...
> 
> Try to, at least; having never been hunting, I can not vouch for the quality of my aim...



I continue on my view and rephrase it...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 16, 2004)

> Well the hunting dog training will stop after the ban, meaning only the current ones need be killed



what so thet makes the needless slaughter of tens of thousands of dogs acceptable, and it's been going on for centuries, why stop it now??


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 16, 2004)

> what so thet makes the needless slaughter of tens of thousands of dogs acceptable



Does that makes the needless slaughter of tens of thousands of foxes acceptable?



> why stop it now??



Cos were entering the world of nanny state


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## GermansRGeniuses (Oct 16, 2004)

I don't know what you're on about, so I'll blame the Labour Government...

Damn retards cancelling the TSR.2...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 17, 2004)

> Does that makes the needless slaughter of tens of thousands of foxes acceptable



fox hunting is not needless slaughter, it's only the old foxes that die anyway and how else do you suppose we kill all the foxes that kill our livestock?? and ask yourself this, if these were wild dogs killing the foxes, would you try and stop them??


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 17, 2004)

No. Because they are wild and they need to do it to survive. But these dogs are trained to kill foxes, they dont need to be, people feed them. Whats the point?

And that brings me back to my orginal point; if they're old foxes that will die anyway, why not leave em to die peacefully, rather than have hundreds of dogs ripping em to shreds?

Put yourself in a similar situation, would you rather die peacefully in your sleep, or chased by hundreds of serial killers through woods and over moorland, being ripped to shreds by knives and stuff. And dont say the second one cos i'll know you're lying....



Too damn right GrG, the TSR2 would have been so cool..."The greatest plane never built." Actually I think they built 2, and there was a 3rd one halfway through being made when the project was cancelled. Im not sure, I have a book on it somewhere...


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## unkated (Oct 29, 2004)

And this has what to do with McGuire?

Uncle Ted


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## unkated (Oct 29, 2004)

Part of the reason McGuire was killed was that he knew he was going to be pulled from combat and wanted to be the leading scorer. He pushed to keep getting missions and to keep getting kills.

In his last fight, whaddaya think? Did he order everyone to keep their drop tanks in hopes that after this easy kill, they could find another on the same patrol?

Uncle Ted


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 29, 2004)

Just to make this clear, McGuire wasnt shot down...


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## wmaxt (Dec 12, 2004)

unkated said:


> Part of the reason McGuire was killed was that he knew he was going to be pulled from combat and wanted to be the leading scorer. He pushed to keep getting missions and to keep getting kills.
> 
> In his last fight, whaddaya think? Did he order everyone to keep their drop tanks in hopes that after this easy kill, they could find another on the same patrol?
> 
> Uncle Ted



It was reported that he did order his men to keep their tanks. Martin Caiden reported that they were about a 1,000ft above the terain, less than 200mph and full of fuel or low, slow, and fat. He also reported that he had regained control of his plane after a high angle of attack stall but was to close to the trees. Even McGuire couldn't break all the rules of combat and make it work - even in a P-38.


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## CDevine (Jun 17, 2005)

lesofprimus said:


> I am copying this directly from a book I have here, The Great Book of WW II Airplanes...
> Alot of typing here...
> 
> During the give and take air battles to and from Rabaul in Oct 43, McGuire (Mac from here on out) flew what he remembered as his most exciting mission...
> ...



I'm trying to locate information about my wife's grandfather Kenneth Richardson. I realize that this is a long shot but I figured I would give it a try.

Apparently Kenneth Richardson was a member of the “431st Fighter Squadron – 475th Fighter Group” and was listed as MIA on 11/02/43 – which seems to indicate that he was involved an attack upon “Rabaul”.

If anyone has any information concerning him I would greatly appreciate it.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 17, 2005)

Have you seen this site? His name is listed on it.

http://www.475thfghf.org/Roster.htm


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## Richard_H (Jul 15, 2006)

In a Flight Journal Magazine, it said that McGuire and Lindbergh actually shared a tent with each other when lindy was operation with the squadron.
They had the common interest of flying obviously, but their personalities was vastly different, Mac being cocky and extroverted, lindy being the exact opposite. Also when they came back from sorties, Lynch (iirc) and Mac were the guys who talked to the reporters about their kills etc, while Bong was the laidback guy. At one point after he'd downed 3 zeroes the reporter asked, "so how many did you get today ****?" -Bong Replied " I got a Couple" 
The reporter then proceeded to ask him why he was such a good shot, he then replied "maybe its because i grew up shootin birds on the farm" -- A gross understatement Lindy also attended Mac's funeral.

I also remember one particular story on how Mac used to land his P38.
First he overflew the airstrip at full speed, just a couple of feet over the runway to check if there were any bomb-craters etc there, almost at the end of the runway he pulled up in a tight loop, popping flaps and landing gear at the apex, he then proceeded to land. Other Pilots commented that they've never ever heard the P38's engine roar like that, but some also though he only did it to show off is exceptional abilities. But infact it was an effective way to get your aircraft on the ground in like 30-40 Seconds

Great pilot, that McGuire


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## Richard_H (Jul 15, 2006)

wmaxt said:


> It was reported that he did order his men to keep their tanks. Martin Caiden reported that they were about a 1,000ft above the terain, less than 200mph and full of fuel or low, slow, and fat. He also reported that he had regained control of his plane after a high angle of attack stall but was to close to the trees. Even McGuire couldn't break all the rules of combat and make it work - even in a P-38.



That stall, wasn't he trying to resque another mate in the flight, thus leading to the stall? Or did he suddenly just stall low and slow and then crashed?


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## Twitch (Jul 18, 2006)

I guess you know then that Lindbergh shot down an enemy plane while up with Tommy. Hehehe!

Then the brass made the


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## syscom3 (Jul 18, 2006)

At Chino 2004 where I talked to that P38 pilot, he told us about McGuires last mission. Although he wasnt on it, when word got back to the group about his loss, there was a "pall of gloom and incredularity". Noone could believe that McGuire went in.

The briefing they got a few days later on what happened was met with a "wtf was he thinking" attitude. He violated nearly all the rules he personally briefed them on when they joined the group.


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## wmaxt (Jul 26, 2006)

Richard_H said:


> That stall, wasn't he trying to resque another mate in the flight, thus leading to the stall? Or did he suddenly just stall low and slow and then crashed?



He pulled an exceptionaly tight turn to go to the aid of another pilot - as the story goes.

He did break virtualy every rule in the book he was low, slow, heavy with full fuel and 300gal external tanks.

wmaxt


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