# B-17 Bomb Bay



## billrunnels (Dec 8, 2017)

I previously mentioned that as soon as the wheels left the runway I headed for the Bomb Bay to pull the fuse cotter Keys. Under certain conditions this could become a chore depending on the number of bombs. There were 42 stations, numbered 1 thru 42, from which bombs could be slung. Only 12 would be used for 500 pound and 24 for 100 pound.
A number of these stations were below the catwalk which made pulling the cotter keys a little difficult. I had to get down off the catwalk, straddle the bomb bay door placing one foot on the aircraft frame and the other on the catwalk support. The bomb bay doors would not support my weight. Then repeat the process on the other side. The bombs were fused nose and tail. A 3"x 5" card was attached to the cotter key by a string. 12 bombs 24 keys to pull, 24 bombs 48.
we had to turn the keys in following completion of a mission. Apparently as the ground troops advanced they found bombs with keys still in the fuses preventing the explosion. These most likely were those below the catwalk. We carried 100 pound bombs one time. I only had 47 keys to turn in but they didn't question me. Apparently I lost one along the way.

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## Crimea_River (Dec 8, 2017)

Interesting tidbit.


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## wuzak (Dec 9, 2017)

Was that the only time you missed a key? 

Seems like something that could happen frequently when carrying lots of little bombs.

Interesting that it was done that way. Obviously Lancaster crews couldn't do the same, as they did not have access to the bomb bay.


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## billrunnels (Dec 9, 2017)

wuzak said:


> Was that the only time you missed a key?
> 
> Seems like something that could happen frequently when carrying lots of little bombs.
> 
> Interesting that it was done that way. Obviously Lancaster crews couldn't do the same, as they did not have access to the bomb bay.


That was the only time we carried 100 lb bombs. The normal load would be 12 500 or 16 250 lb.

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## fubar57 (Dec 9, 2017)

Interesting as usual


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## rochie (Dec 9, 2017)

Great stuff Bill


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## billrunnels (Dec 9, 2017)

wuzak said:


> Was that the only time you missed a key?
> 
> Seems like something that could happen frequently when carrying lots of little bombs.
> 
> Interesting that it was done that way. Obviously Lancaster crews couldn't do the same, as they did not have access to the bomb bay.


It would be interesting to know how their system worked.


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## Micdrow (Dec 9, 2017)

Very cool info Bill, many thanks


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## Airframes (Dec 9, 2017)

Good stuff Bill.
On the Lancaster, and other British bombers, the fuse pins were connected by a wire to points inside the bomb bay. Once the bombs were released, the wire pulled the pins, leaving the wire dangling in the bomb bay, but clear of the doors.


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## rochie (Dec 9, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> It would be interesting to know how their system worked.


Bill.

if i remember correctly from what i have read.

the bombs were fused by the loaders as they were hung in the bomb bay
a wire on a spool attached to the aircraft with an arming pin was put through the fuses, this was pulled out of the fuses as the bombs were released and was retracted back onto the spool.

karl


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## Airframes (Dec 9, 2017)

I forgot about the spools. 
I believe a similar system was used on the B-25 and Douglas Boston too. Film footage taken from B-25 bomb bays, for example, often shows the wires hanging free when the bombs have been released.


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## billrunnels (Dec 9, 2017)

rochie said:


> Bill.
> 
> if i remember correctly from what i have read.
> 
> ...


Hi Karl.......The fuses were installed on the ground. Cotter keys were inserted as a safety measure to prevent an accident while loading the bombs in the Bomb Bay. They remained in the fuse for take off and then pulled. The armature wires (no spool) provided the safety in flight. When the bombs were released the wires remained connected to the bomb shackle in the aircraft.The fuse impellers spun off during free fall arming the bomb.

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## rochie (Dec 9, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> Hi Karl.......The fuses were installed on the ground. Cotter keys were inserted as a safety measure to prevent an accident while loading the bombs in the Bomb Bay. They remained in the fuse for take off and then pulled. The armature wires (no spool) provided the safety in flight. When the bombs were released the wires remained connected to the bomb shackle in the aircraft.The fuse impellers spun off during free fall arming the bomb.


Thanks Bill.
As know there was no access to a lancaster bomb bay during flight, so i wonder if that extra safety step you did was not followed by bomber command ?
The spools i talked about were attached to the bomb shackles.


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## billrunnels (Dec 9, 2017)

rochie said:


> Thanks Bill.
> As know there was no access to a lancaster bomb bay during flight, so i wonder if that extra safety step you did was not followed by bomber command ?
> The spools i talked about were attached to the bomb shackles.


When the bombs were salvoed in an emergence the armature wires went with the bombs making it a safe drop, no detonation.


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## rochie (Dec 9, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> When the bombs were salvoed in an emergence the armature wires went with the bombs making it a safe drop, no detonation.


I Wonder if it was the same with the RAF ?


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## Airframes (Dec 9, 2017)

As far as I know, in RAF aircraft such as the Lanc, if the jettison bar was activated, the bombs were dropped 'safe'. I have part of a Lanc bomb selector panel, but it's missing the jettison bar and timer, so I'm uncertain as to the jettison procedure.
I do know that the bombs were fused in 'fusing sheds' near the bomb dump, before being taken out to dispersal for loading. Safety wires on the impellers were fitted to prevent the vanes spinning up when moved, and these were removed once loaded into the bomb bay. As Karl described, spooled wires were connected to the final safety pins, and if jettisoned, the wires were severed, or disconnected at the spool end, leaving the safety pin in the fuse impeller. 
There were two 'Jettison Areas' for aircraft returning still 'bombed up', for example if a raid was recalled for whatever reason, or a crew had to abort for technical or weather problems, when it might be unsafe to land with the load on board.
One of these areas was in the English Channel, and the other in the North Sea off the Dutch islands.


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## rochie (Dec 9, 2017)

Bill, this film shows the whole procedure on a wellington.
On 20 minutes 40 seconds it shows the wires being attached to the nose fuse.

How does it compare to your experience ?


_View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zHFBTWN6tDQ_

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## Airframes (Dec 9, 2017)

Good one Karl.


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## billrunnels (Dec 9, 2017)

Airframes said:


> As far as I know, in RAF aircraft such as the Lanc, if the jettison bar was activated, the bombs were dropped 'safe'. I have part of a Lanc bomb selector panel, but it's missing the jettison bar and timer, so I'm uncertain as to the jettison procedure.
> I do know that the bombs were fused in 'fusing sheds' near the bomb dump, before being taken out to dispersal for loading. Safety wires on the impellers were fitted to prevent the vanes spinning up when moved, and these were removed once loaded into the bomb bay. As Karl described, spooled wires were connected to the final safety pins, and if jettisoned, the wires were severed, or disconnected at the spool end, leaving the safety pin in the fuse impeller.
> There were two 'Jettison Areas' for aircraft returning still 'bombed up', for example if a raid was recalled for whatever reason, or a crew had to abort for technical or weather problems, when it might be unsafe to land with the load on board.
> One of these areas was in the English Channel, and the other in the North Sea off the Dutch islands.


Thanks for sharing the info. If we had to dump bombs prior to landing it was done at the "Wash".


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## pbehn (Dec 9, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> Thanks for sharing the info. If we had to dump bombs prior to landing it was done at the "Wash".


Dammit Bill, I was just going to start an expedition to recover King Johns treasure and you tell me you bombed it, another sure fire scheme thwarted.
King John's Lost treasure - will it ever be found?

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## Airframes (Dec 9, 2017)

You're more than welcome Bill, and yes, I forgot to mention the other jettison areas, one being the Wash, as you correctly stated, and I believe another in the northern part of the North Sea, used for aircraft returning from attacks on Scandinavia, or returning from German targets to bases in north Yorkshire and Co. Durham. I think part of the latter is now used as a bombing range and / or Military Aircraft Exercise and Live Fire Zone, or used to be - I remember NATO aircraft in he area up to at least the early 1980's. There are still 'live fire' ranges over the Wash too.


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## billrunnels (Dec 9, 2017)

pbehn said:


> Dammit Bill, I was just going to start an expedition to recover King Johns treasure and you tell me you bombed it, another sure fire scheme thwarted.
> King John's Lost treasure - will it ever be found?


Sorry about that If the treasure is in the Wash it is buried under a mountain of unexploded bombs plus five 100 lb practice bombs, filled with sand, with my name on them.


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## pbehn (Dec 9, 2017)

billrunnels said:


> Sorry about that If the treasure is in the Wash it is buried under a mountain of unexploded bombs.


OK this time Bill, just don't do it again, I don't want my treasure scattered.


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## billrunnels (Dec 9, 2017)

pbehn said:


> OK this time Bill, just don't do it again, I don't want my treasure scattered.


I wouldn't dare

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## Gnomey (Dec 14, 2017)

Interesting stuff guys!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 15, 2017)

Interesting. I bet that has a lil to do with the tens of thousands of unexploded bombs still buried throughout Germany today.


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## billrunnels (Dec 16, 2017)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Interesting. I bet that has a lil to do with the tens of thousands of unexploded bombs still buried throughout Germany today.






Sad to say you probably are correct. It is hard for me to understand, after going through the mission preparation effort, how anyone could short change total effect of the drop this way.


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