# Britons tire of cruel, vulgar US: poll



## SpitfireKing (Jul 3, 2006)

Check this thing that I found on Yahoo news.

"People in Britain view the United States as a vulgar, crime-ridden society obsessed with money and led by an incompetent president whose Iraq policy is failing, according to a newspaper poll. 

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The United States is no longer a symbol of hope to Britain and the British no longer have confidence in their transatlantic cousins to lead global affairs, according to the poll published in The Daily Telegraph.

The YouGov poll found that 77 percent of respondents disagreed with the statement that the US is "a beacon of hope for the world".

As Americans prepared to celebrate the 230th anniversary of their independence on Tuesday, the poll found that only 12 percent of Britons trust them to act wisely on the global stage. This is half the number who had faith in the Vietnam-scarred White House of 1975."

Personnaly I agree. 

Continued: "A massive 83 percent of those questioned said that the United States doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.

With much of the worst criticism aimed at the US adminstration, the poll showed that 70 percent of Britons like Americans a lot or a little.

US President George W. Bush fared significantly worse, with just one percent rating him a "great leader" against 77 percent who deemed him a "pretty poor" or "terrible" leader.

More than two-thirds who offered an opinion said America is essentially an imperial power seeking world domination. And 81 per cent of those who took a view said President George W Bush hypocritically championed democracy as a cover for the pursuit of American self-interests.

US policy in Iraq was similarly derided, with only 24 percent saying they felt that the US military action there was helping to bring democracy to the country.

A spokesman for the American embassy said that the poll's findings were contradicted by its own surveys.

"We question the judgment of anyone who asserts the world would be a better place with Saddam still terrorizing his own nation and threatening people well beyond Iraq's borders," the paper quoted the unnamed spokesman as saying.

"With respect to the poll's assertions about American society, we bear some of the blame for not successfully communicating America's extraordinary dynamism.

"But frankly, so do you (the British press)."

In answer to other questions, a majority of the Britons questions described Americans as uncaring, divided by class, awash in violent crime, vulgar, preoccupied with money, ignorant of the outside world, racially divided, uncultured and in the most overwhelming result (90 percent of respondents) dominated by big business."


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## mosquitoman (Jul 3, 2006)

I'm probably going to offend someone by saying this, but my problem isn't with America, just it's current government


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## Tiger (Jul 3, 2006)

On my visits to the U.S. I have found the people be nice enough. I agree with MM the current government is the real problem.


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## SpitfireKing (Jul 3, 2006)

Heck, I live in the U.S.A. and bush sucks.


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## plan_D (Jul 3, 2006)

I have no problem with America or Americans. But mostly you Americans are vulgar loud assholes ... but you've earnt the right to be that! And most of the decent Americans, are just that ... decent. There's bad people in every country, but most Americans are honest, up-standing, hard working people like the few _true_ British people left in the world. 

Yes, they do interfere every where. They do have to get involved. They do blow things up. America is a prick, and god damn it's exactly what this world needs right now 'cos all the rest of the countries are pussies or assholes.

Hell, to some extent, I love America. And I've never even been there!


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 3, 2006)

plan_D said:


> Yes, they do interfere every where. They do have to get involved. They do blow things up. America is a prick, and god damn it's exactly what this world needs right now 'cos all the rest of the countries are pussies or assholes.


 D - you need to be the head of the UN - the world WILL be a better place!!!


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## plan_D (Jul 3, 2006)

My U.N Peacekeepers would not wear blue helmets anymore, but maybe the B-52s that are flattening the trouble spot would have blue noses paint on them.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 3, 2006)

I think what many fail to realize here that if Kerry was president, we probably wouldn't of seen much of a difference with regards to Iraq - when Bush speaks he sounds like an idiot, good ole Texas "good ole boy" and even when he does well, he'll always have that stigma - he's a white southern richman, the type the media loves to hate. But then again if Bush wasn't Pres, who's the alternatives?!?! Hilliary? Gore? Kerry? How about Al Sharpton?!?!?

As far as loud obnoxious Americans - yes there are many, we admit it, it's the same bunch that go on the 65% overweight statistic discussed on the other threads...


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## plan_D (Jul 3, 2006)

America is loud and obnoxious because it's _the_ Super Power. When Britain ruled the world, we were pretty loud and obnoxious too. We wore Red Coats in the British Army to inform the enemy we were there. Normally, you want to surprise the enemy but not in Britain. We were so powerful we didn't care if the enemy knew ! At least American military wears camo.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 3, 2006)

plan_D said:


> America is loud and obnoxious because it's _the_ Super Power. When Britain ruled the world, we were pretty loud and obnoxious too. We wore Red Coats in the British Army to inform the enemy we were there. Normally, you want to surprise the enemy but not in Britain. We were so powerful we didn't care if the enemy knew ! At least American military wears camo.


hehehehehehe


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## syscom3 (Jul 3, 2006)

Too many people in Europe refuse to accept that the US has turned considerably more conservative than "old Europe".

And its even worse for the so called "intelligensia" there that Bush was reelected. 

Too many people have turned their blind and completley irrational hatred for Bush into hatred into a country that they should be thanking their collective ***'s for.

I bet if Bush did everything that Europeans wanted him to do, they would still hate him because hes a texan and a redneck to boot.

So many people in Europe  me that we should pull out of NATO and let them protect themsleves.


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## plan_D (Jul 3, 2006)

You do realise that you just accused Europe as stereotyping America because of it's leader, then stereotyped Europeans don't you? If you don't like Europe and Europeans so much, don't come here. We won't miss you.


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## Erich (Jul 3, 2006)

hmmmmm Bush sucks huh ? wonder what Carey would be doing now, going to Gitmo to get the terroists released I suppose. I shouldn't be going there as I have made comment about this traitor in the past. and no-one say he was a war hero .......... please cause if you do ...............

dang you guys are so bloody young if you would of been around during ww2 or better yet Vietnam and live what we went through ............ blah, blah, blah, I'm tired of hearing how our present admin and his galley is full of crock, all I can say is the guy has balls compared to many living and breathing in their comfy little homes in Congress and the Senate. Send em overseas ASAP !


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## plan_D (Jul 3, 2006)

W. Bush is the lesser of many evils that arrive in U.S politics. Ideally, you'd have W. Bush with brains but that's not possible. The amount of mistakes made by the current admin that have cost the lives of Americans, and other nationalities is pathetic. I am all for the U.K supporting the U.S but next time we attack a country together, I hope that the U.S has actually thought it through to save not only American lives, but British ones too. 

And before anyone (syscom is the most likely culprit) says "Britain should look after it's own troops." Well, maybe next time we'll leave them at home and have the U.S do everything on their own. 

Britain and the US are the two greatest allies in history, and the people that matter in Britain know this. Did the poll ask every single man, woman and child in Great Britain? No. And are we aware that Britain is increasingly filling with anti-American muslims ... are these people British? I think not. Instead of judging the views of Britain on one newspaper poll ... come to Britain and see how the British react around you. You'll find that most British people idolise Americans ... they do it so much it actually puts me on the brink of vomiting.


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## syscom3 (Jul 4, 2006)

plan_D said:


> W. Bush is the lesser of many evils that arrive in U.S politics. Ideally, you'd have W. Bush with brains but that's not possible.



Bush is a lousy public speaker but quite smart in more private and relaxed settings. he does have an MBA from a top notch school (and liberal one to boot, the irony of it). 



> The amount of mistakes made by the current admin that have cost the lives of Americans, and other nationalities is pathetic.



some mistakes, some success's. At least he's doing something. In the war on terror, weakness and indicision is dangerous. Of course a good many "liberals and leftists" seem tog et sexual gratification about seeing dictators mass murder and control people. For those old enough to remember the 70's and 80's, there were quite a few people who said we should use our military power to remove dictators and tyrants. Now we are and theyre changing their tune.




> And before anyone (syscom is the most likely culprit) says "Britain should look after it's own troops." Well, maybe next time we'll leave them at home and have the U.S do everything on their own.



Im a firm believer that the US looks after its own first. Anyone else wants to join in fine. If not, dont come running to us for help.



> ... come to Britain and see how the British react around you. You'll find that most British people idolise Americans ... they do it so much it actually puts me on the brink of vomiting.



Actually I was there in March. I was dumbfounded on how so many people were brain washed by their govt media to hate Bush. Yet noone could say really why. It reminded me of the right wing idiots who hated Clinton in the 90's. Really weird. Group think taken to an extreme.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 4, 2006)

SpitfireKing said:


> In answer to other questions, a majority of the Britons questions described Americans as uncaring, divided by class, awash in violent crime, vulgar, preoccupied with money, ignorant of the outside world, racially divided, uncultured and in the most overwhelming result (90 percent of respondents) dominated by big business."



That is not just what England thinks, that is what the majority of the world thinks.

Dont take me wrong though. I am a German with US citizenship and serve in the US Army and I dont agree with all of that, but many US citizens bring this upon themselves by the way they act in other countries. I see so many US Soldiers over here that give the US a bad name by the way they act and present themselves.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 4, 2006)

From what I tell, by speaking with Germans here on a daily basis is this. They have nothing against Americans or the American People but they do not like Bush. Believe it or not also, they are very friendly to Americans over here (with the exception of the turds that act like assholes) but they will tell you that they do not like Bush.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 4, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> That is not just what England thinks, that is what the majority of the world thinks.


Too true I'm afraid. Yet it's been my experience that an awful lot of those doing the bitching and moaning are exactly the same way. Like syscom says, it's a form of "group think". People are sheep, and too often don't really have a clue about what they're complaining for.



syscom3 said:


> I was dumbfounded on how so many people were brain washed by their govt media to hate Bush. Yet noone could say really why. It reminded me of the right wing idiots who hated Clinton in the 90's. Really weird. Group think taken to an extreme.


Sure sounds a lot like this place, except you can basically replace Bush with the US in general in that statement. The thing is, Canadians and Americans are practically the same people. The differences are superficial at best. More often than not it's merely a case of different terminology. Provinces vice states, we're metric and they're not, and that sort of thing. I think in our case the bad mouthing stems more from a desperate need to differentiate ourselves from our American bros, and we often take it a bit far in my opinion. It seems that we'll often do the opposite simply for the sake thereof, whether it makes any sense to do so or not. At least that's been my observation over the years. I dunno. It's a form of deep rooted insecurity that's infected people on a national scale. I think it's utterly foolish.


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## trackend (Jul 4, 2006)

I take as I find what nationality they are has no bearing on it at all a prat is a prat the US is at the moment the dominant power and as such as with all past powers they will tend to do things that favour their own well being either economicly or militairly it would barmy to shoot yourself in the foot when you can shoot someone elses.
On the whole I think the US has been very restrained in most of world affairs
perhaps having huge buisiness interests all around the globe means treading a tad more carefully than past powers did " Sir the indians are revolting! ". "You're telling me, blow the crap out of them at once and nick all their tea".
I am not a Bush lover (at least not that sort of bush) I keep getting the "look at me daddy" feeling, although our own John Prescott is not exactly an interlectual giant.


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## syscom3 (Jul 4, 2006)

One thing I've observed about the European intelligencia is they believe that a successfull politician must be well educated from one of a few large internationally respected universities, and have a long resume of qualifications.

They hated Reagan because he was not college educated (even though a govenor of the largest state in the union and a labor union leader)

They thought Bush 1 as being tolerable as he did have the "credentials".

They loved Clinton as he was an Oxford graduate (and really nothing else) and he understood that US interests must be subordinated to what the UN wanted. 

Now they dispise Bush 2 because he has no credentials, other than an MBA from Harvard.

Generally, these Eusropeans dont understand that in America, anyone can be president. And that gives them fits, jealous rages and irrational self-defeating comments and actions. They deep down, secretly dont like democracy.


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## davparlr (Jul 4, 2006)

A few comments on this thread. First, the comments about Bush's intelligence. Foolish people judge intelligence by fluent speech (or fluent writing, as I have witnessed on this site, including my own). I have known may silver tongued orators with lead (the metal) brains. Take for instance, the Hollywood crowd who like to boast fluently about their knowledge when they don't have enough combined education, or brains, to fill a bucket. On the other hand, I have known brilliant people who could hardly put two words together. George Bush scored higher on the IQ test administered by the military than John Kerry (no big deal however). George Bush has an MBA which is probably more education than 99% of his critics who says he is not smart. George Bush flew F-102s in the Air Force. You have to be quick witted and make sound decisions to fly a high performance aircraft. These traits are regularly tested in-depth by the military. In 1969 (one year after Bush), when I applied to the Air Force for pilot training, I was told that, because of the quantity of applications for pilot training during draft years, the Air Force only took applicants in the top 5% of IQ test scores. Top 5% of college graduates! While Bush entered pilot training through the National Guard, the standards were still quite high and he still had to compete with the regular Air Force inductees. As president, after we were brutally attacked, he looked at the data that was presented to him by the world, and arrived at a blatantly obvious (I can but won't expand on) conclusion that happened to be against the political mainstream ostrich society (keep your head in the sand). As for Iraq, yes, there were many mistakes. Only idiots think that wars don't generate mistakes by the most brilliant leaders. I could probably argue that Bush and his team have generated fewer mistakes in a war as complex as this one, than any other leader in a war in the last 200 years (remember that mistakes by winners are soon erased). And, Iraq still has the possibility of turning out to be one of the most significant positive events in the 21st century. He is a man who sticks by his friends, makes decisions and sticks to them as long as they make sense to him and he does what he says, a rarity for politicians. I suspect there are few great leader who have not had these characteristics. The left leaning media in our country and across the world do not like his conservative, value-base leadership and conscientiously makes every effort to put him in a bad light.

As for the polls. 

Polls, like statistics, tend to reflect the opinon of those doing the polling and statistical analysis. 

I have no defence for loud mouth Americans. They are indeed spoiled and disgraceful.

From my experience and what I have heard, Europeans have been very friendly to Americans, even the French. Hopefully, that attitude is returned.

I'll try not to stereotype. England is a great place full of great people. The kind of people that can be depended upon. We are fortunate to have them as friends. And we would be wise to nourish that friendship.

As for the EU (not including England). To me they seem leaderless with no direction. They would perfer to ignore problems than address them. They also are willing to let the US lead in facing the threats to society, but with lots of complaints. They ARE NOT willing to spend the money necessary to provide a defense that would allow them to lead. In essence, they complain about the US, but don't want to make the sacrifices necessary for the US to reduce its military influence in the world. And it appears that some had dirty hands when it came to dealing with Saddam.

Economically, they complain that the US is materialistic, but, they sure do like the fact we buy their products and would complain if we didn't.

They complain about our violence (very bad indeed, but a mixture of diverse cultures and significant individual freedoms can tend to allow violence) and our self-centered dispicable society (we probably give more aid than most nations per capita, but we certainly use too much oil), but if the world suddenly opened all the borders to free immigration, who would dare honestly answer where the vast majority would go (probably the same place they are trying to go now)??

While I think Bush's forgein policy on terror is outstanding (Iraq is like a protected knight on the opponents side of the board which effectively prevents his offense-for those of you who play chess) I am unhappy about our border security and lack of a strong program to terminate oil imports, which I believe is our biggest security risk.

We all have to remember that we all want the same thing, freedom and protection from those who would harm us in order to force their way of life on us. We may have different ideas about how to do that, but we should not lose sight of who our enemy is.

Sorry for the novel. I just had a few things to say. I think Bush has gotten a bum rap from the media and a lot of people have bought into it.


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## Erich (Jul 4, 2006)

appreciate your honest candor.

let me make something clear which I think can be honored and agreed upon in this paged thread. the Media is controlling and will way your decision making, it did the time of Vietnam and ever more so now. Do not be delusional, make the decisions based on what you know is right in your heart ......

E ♫


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 4, 2006)

Great post davparlr!!! Like I told an acquaintance - in 1968 you had a flight training slot available. Would you take it or just wait for your number to come up???? And to those bone heads who think his old man pull strings for him, well maybe, but not when it comes to earning those wings. All the money in the world doesn't buy you military aviator's wings, and if it did the recipient wouldn't live to see 100 hours flight time wearing them....


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## syscom3 (Jul 4, 2006)

Its amazing that while the EU champions "human rights", only are those rights truely enshrined in our constitution and guarented by "God".

The state supported media in Europe reflects what the govt wants the people to know, whether by plan or not. I can look back at the 70's and only wish we had an internet and fox news that was capable of carrying an alternative view. 

If there is one sterotype I have of Europeans in general, is they are so condesending know it all's that think all Americans are dumb. I've had a few lively debates in HK, Jakarta, Moscow, Martinique, Mexico City and Singapore to conform my suspicions.


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## davparlr (Jul 4, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Great post davparlr!!! Like I told an acquaintance - in 1968 you had a flight training slot available. Would you take it or just wait for your number to come up???? And to those bone heads who think his old man pull strings for him, well maybe, but not when it comes to earning those wings. All the money in the world doesn't buy you military aviator's wings, and if it did the recipient wouldn't live to see 100 hours flight time wearing them....



There were several National Guard in our Flight Training class. Most of us felt that they, because the Guard at that time was hard to get into, knew someone. Well, that's life, isn't it. We didn't care as long as they performed and I can assure you they weren't coddled. They knew what planes they would get. Some were good, F-106s, some not so good, KC-97. They were all part of the team. The only student I saw coddled was an Afganistani whos father was the chief of the Royal Afganistan AF. It took him two years (nomal is one year) to get through. They had to let him fly a round robin solo so they put an instruction solo ahead of him and one behind and escorted him around the flight patch. He finally graduated and went on to fly.......F-104s!!!! He probably ended up in a whole somewhere.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 4, 2006)

davparlr said:


> There were several National Guard in our Flight Training class. Most of us felt that they, because the Guard at that time was hard to get into, knew someone. Well, that's life, isn't it. We didn't care as long as they performed and I can assure you they weren't coddled. They knew what planes they would get. Some were good, F-106s, some not so good, KC-97. They were all part of the team. The only student I saw coddled was an Afganistani whos father was the chief of the Royal Afganistan AF. It took him two years (nomal is one year) to get through. They had to let him fly a round robin solo so they put an instruction solo ahead of him and one behind and escorted him around the flight patch. He finally graduated and went on to fly.......F-104s!!!! He probably ended up in a whole somewhere.


It's funny, when I was in the Naval Reserve I had to work harder and better than the Regs because they thought I was some kind of burger flipper in my full time job. Sometimes I had 2x the experience of my maintenance chiefs...


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## plan_D (Jul 4, 2006)

No wonder they got the idea all Americans were dumb if they talked to you syscom.


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## syscom3 (Jul 4, 2006)

plan_D said:


> No wonder they got the idea all Americans were dumb if they talked to you syscom.



I dont understand


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## plan_D (Jul 5, 2006)

I hope you're joking, I really do.


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## syscom3 (Jul 5, 2006)

I really dont


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## plan_D (Jul 5, 2006)

Nevermind. You do realise most of the places you listed are not in Europe, don't you?


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## Gnomey (Jul 5, 2006)




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## syscom3 (Jul 5, 2006)

Moscow is European isnt it?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 5, 2006)

Well basically he means with your biased loud mouthed and know it all opinions that you have, it is no wonder that they dont think very highly of you, and ofcourse they make stereotypes which leads them to think all are that way.

Ill be honest, for the most part I agreed with a lot of that novel post up there, but there are some things that I can not agree with and I think that comes from Americans making stereotypes about Europeans on subjects that they do not know about or care to understand becuase it is not American.

Now having said that everyone makes stereotypes. The Europeans of the Americans, the Germans of the French, The British of the French, the Northern US of the Southern US and back and forth. 

Is the majority of it true? No, but that is life.


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## pbfoot (Jul 5, 2006)

I live in a city of 75000 that gets about 22 million visitors a year and coupled with the fact I live right on the border I feel qualified to make a comment Americans are 99% awesome people the same percentage as every other nationality the fact that they have verylittle knowledge about the world outside the US which is the fault of the US media and educational systems which are inward looking is what causes them the bad image the worst tourists in case anybody cares are the people from Israel very demanding and rude . One thing that makes the young americans look bad is that they come here because the drinking age is 18 and they tend to get a little over amped when they drink Canadian beer


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 5, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> One thing that makes the young americans look bad is that they come here because the drinking age is 18


I thought it was 19. In any event, you're right. The vast majority of Americans are fine folks. I've met some wonderful people over the years, young and old. Young drunk American kids are no worse than young drunk kids from anywhere. They like to party it up, and sometimes get a little, shall we say, rambunctious. As long as they don't start destroying everything in sight or harassing everybody, they're OK in my book.


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## pbfoot (Jul 5, 2006)

I'm have without doubt performed once or twice including one or two conduct unbecoming


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## plan_D (Jul 5, 2006)

I said *most* of the places you listed weren't in Europe. That implies that at least some of the places are in Europe, syscom. You can't get much further from Europe than Singapore.


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## davparlr (Jul 5, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> , but there are some things that I can not agree with and I think that comes from Americans making stereotypes about Europeans on subjects that they do not know about or care to understand becuase it is not American.
> 
> Now having said that everyone makes stereotypes. The Europeans of the Americans, the Germans of the French, The British of the French, the Northern US of the Southern US and back and forth.
> 
> Is the majority of it true? No, but that is life.



Help me understand. And for your information I hold no grudges against those dam carpetbagging Yankees!!

PBFoot says "world outside the US which is the fault of the US media and educational systems". Typically we take a class in US history and one in World history. Are you implying that our world history courses are slanted (I'm sure it is) but that Canadian world history is not? What would you suggest would improve our understanding?

Your comments were appreciated. 

We all have preceptions base on our media, the Germans are tree huggers with a few neo-nazis and anarchist, the Brits are all drunken soccer fans (this may be true), and Canadians all wear red suits and ride horses and have a dog (actually the Canadians have contributed so much to our culture that it is hard to think of them as anything but brothers and sisters.) The truth is, that the news always represents the worst.


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## plan_D (Jul 5, 2006)

I have quite a few American friends, of all ages. And the more intelligent ones do inform that their World History class is quite pointless and bias. They have also griped about the American History class, one friend informed that she had to take it upon herself to learn about the American Revolution. A lot of Americans would find the truth quite shocking, as she did. But her intelligence, luckily, was shrouded by patriotic bias. The funny thing is, I've never known anyone more loving of their nation. 

And 90% of the British are just loud-mouthed idiotic hooligans.


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## syscom3 (Jul 5, 2006)

It was some Belgians in Tokyo that embarressed themselves

Some Frenchman in bangkok and Hongkong that infuriated the Chinese and Thai's

And some dumbass's from Britain and Germany in French Guiana that made fools of themselves.

And then theres all the Euro-tards that would go to the beach when I lived in Hermosa and Redondo that proved once and for all that the education standards in Europe arent what its cracked up to be.

The only people who seemed to never make an *** of themsleves were the aussies and scandanavians.


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## plan_D (Jul 5, 2006)

I find it amusing that you attempt to attack Europe for stereotyping the U.S while you stereotype Europe. Quite the hypocrite. 

In any case, the standards of European education are above anywhere else i the world. You may be shocked when visiting Europe that 90% of them speak fluent English. And you may be even more shocked when you discover that a lot of them can speak three or four languages. 

When you went to all these places, did you actually attempt to embrace the culture? Merely going to a place does not give you a valid opinion. American culture has implanted itself everywhere, and it's so easy for an American abroad to act just like an American at home. Eat the same food, drink the same beer, talk with the same people. 

Who am I kidding? You're a waste of time.


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## pbfoot (Jul 5, 2006)

I think the easiest way to prove the difference is asking all these people from all over the world was when did WW2 start for a Canadian its Sept 10 1939


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## plan_D (Jul 5, 2006)

Britain is taught 1st September, 1939. Although Britain wasn't in the war until the 3rd. China would say it started in 1931.


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## syscom3 (Jul 5, 2006)

plan_D said:


> I find it amusing that you attempt to attack Europe for stereotyping the U.S while you stereotype Europe. Quite the hypocrite.



So whats wrong with that? Europeans are among the most hypocritical people around. Just sticking it back at you.



> In any case, the standards of European education are above anywhere else i the world. You may be shocked when visiting Europe that 90% of them speak fluent English. And you may be even more shocked when you discover that a lot of them can speak three or four languages.



many so called "educated" europeans sure didnt prove it to anyone

[qote]When you went to all these places, did you actually attempt to embrace the culture? Merely going to a place does not give you a valid opinion. American culture has implanted itself everywhere, and it's so easy for an American abroad to act just like an American at home. Eat the same food, drink the same beer, talk with the same people.[/quote]

Well, yeah, sort of.....eat the local foods, go to the cultural sites and museums. sample the local brews. So I suppose I did. 



> Who am I kidding? You're a waste of time.



Youre just jealous that Ive been to places youve never been to.


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## plan_D (Jul 5, 2006)

Your stubborn attitude is what makes you a waste of time. I have plenty of life left to visit what I want. The mere fact that you refer to all Europeans collectively as one entity has proven your ignorance. It seems all in the U.S do I hear people refering to Europe like it's a country. 
The cultures, education and attitudes of all European countries are different. I, personally, want to visit most of the countries of Europe because the culture differences are massive. 

To appreciate the culture, you have to mingle and mix with the local people. In Germany, I was lucky to have Chris guiding me through German traditions and the people. It was a great experience to be somewhere, and feel a part of another culture. 

When in another country, do you attempt to speak their language ?


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## syscom3 (Jul 5, 2006)

plan_D said:


> When in another country, do you attempt to speak their language ?



Actually I did try. 

But one day you will visit the orient and discover those languages are tough to learn!

Plus many of the people want to practice their english. So being a good american with a nice attitude, I let them practice their english on me.


I need to find the pictures of the goat i bought (in Jakarta) for sacrifice. They slaughtered it and gave the meat to the poor people. Most Europeans wouldnt do such a thing. But the US, Canadian and Aussies did it all the time.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Jul 5, 2006)

Fair or unfair, Bush has failed the worst in getting momentum. And he's not even a lame duck yet!


Everyone see's him as more of a puppet, when in reality he has lost none of his actual power, just his good standing. Still, without much support, the dust really gathers on the White House.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2006)

davparlr said:


> Help me understand. And for your information I hold no grudges against those dam carpetbagging Yankees!!



Well I hope you are not offended with the comment that made.

To help you understand I will put it like this. Everyone makes stereotypes of everyone. If anyone denies this, then they are blind to the real world. Now having said this, alot of what people are saying here is stereotyping of Europe that is not true. Americans have a habbit of doing this because they dont know any better about what it is like over here in Europe. They only know what they are tought and what they see on TV through the media and TV shows.

Good example everyone thinks that Germans like David Hasselhof (yes he was popular over here in the 80's [he was popular in the US as well with Knightrider] and the early 90's) because of shows like Eurotrip (which was a great movie!) and Dodgeball and other shows that show up on TV in the states. You dont know how many times I hear from Americans "Germans are gay because they all like David Hasselfof!" when in fact he is no more popular over here than he in the states.

I have lived in both Europe and the United States and I have seen it first hand that Americans either ie. make heavilly fun of or critisize or stereotype what they do not know or understand and that is the case for much of what I am reading here.

Do they do the same in Europe? Ofcourse they do. Most of the stereotypes come from the Americans that they see here on a day to day basis and lets be honest a large population of the soldiers here do not act very polite or friendly, especially when there is alcohol involved.



davparlr said:


> PBFoot says "world outside the US which is the fault of the US media and educational systems". Typically we take a class in US history and one in World history. Are you implying that our world history courses are slanted (I'm sure it is) but that Canadian world history is not? What would you suggest would improve our understanding?



Well to be honest, I have been to both schools in the US and Germany and I have to say the history classes that are tought in US schools are lacking. They teach only an Americanized form of History and leave out a lot. In US history books, WW1 was won single handedly by the US, WW2 was won single handedly by the US...

Is that eneogh of an example. They leave out much of the world. It is a proven fact that most Americans do not even know where the country of Lichtenstein is.



davparlr said:


> We all have preceptions base on our media, the Germans are tree huggers with a few neo-nazis and anarchist, the Brits are all drunken soccer fans (this may be true), and Canadians all wear red suits and ride horses and have a dog (actually the Canadians have contributed so much to our culture that it is hard to think of them as anything but brothers and sisters.) The truth is, that the news always represents the worst.



That is very true. The media manipulates the way people think. It is this way all over the world.

This is basically what I dont like. I am a US/German citizen who was born and raised in Europe but lived for many years in the United States. I have seen both sides of the house. I dont like how some people (I will not give names but you know you are) make these stereotypes that are completly wrong, because they dont know anything outside of there sphere called the USA. Basically what I am saying is this, if you do not know or understand something, learn first then pass judgement.



syscom3 said:


> It was some Belgians in Tokyo that embarressed themselves
> 
> Some Frenchman in bangkok and Hongkong that infuriated the Chinese and Thai's
> 
> ...



And US citizen make fools out of themselves everywhere as well. I see it on a day to day basis here in Germany. If you saw how they acted you would be ashamed of yourself.

And as for that *Euro-tards remark*, I am giving you ****ing warning now. There are plenty of Europeans on this forum including the German side of me. I will not tolerate you making open offending remarks to them. I dont give a damn what your agenda is! Dont get me started syscom, I really do like you, I think for the most part we see eye to eye on a lot of things and get along but I have no problem becoming an ******* and bringing a hammer down.

My style may not be Les's style but I am not push over!



syscom3 said:


> So whats wrong with that? Europeans are among the most hypocritical people around. Just sticking it back at you.



You are proving quite the contrary.



syscom3 said:


> Youre just jealous that Ive been to places youve never been to.



And I am sure that I have been to more places than you can dream of. The main reason because I care to learn about other cultures and not just belittle them as you do!

Frankly I am really getting tired of you talking so much **** about other cultures when you have your own prolbems in you own back yard!



syscom3 said:


> Most Europeans wouldnt do such a thing. But the US, Canadian and Aussies did it all the time.



There you go stereotyping again. You are walking on a thin line syscom. I am growing tired of this... 

Syscom you are starting to make a riff in this forum and I do not like it!


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## davparlr (Jul 6, 2006)

plan_D said:


> Your stubborn attitude is what makes you a waste of time. I have plenty of life left to visit what I want. The mere fact that you refer to all Europeans collectively as one entity has proven your ignorance. It seems all in the U.S do I hear people refering to Europe like it's a country.
> The cultures, education and attitudes of all European countries are different. I, personally, want to visit most of the countries of Europe because the culture differences are massive.
> 
> To appreciate the culture, you have to mingle and mix with the local people. In Germany, I was lucky to have Chris guiding me through German traditions and the people. It was a great experience to be somewhere, and feel a part of another culture.
> ...



This is unfair. If I took a two week tour to Paris, Berlin, Italy, Athens, and Madrid, you can't expect me to learn French, German, Italy, Athens, and Spanish. Europeans are emmersed in other languages and Americans are not. We can travel a thousand miles in any direction and only run into one other language (maybe two if you count French). If I knew Spanish, would I be accused of being an uncultured American in France? Probably.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2006)

No the French think everyone is uncultured! 

Man it is going to suck when I go to Paris in August. They hate the Americans and the Germans so I am really screwed being German/American!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2006)

davparlr said:


> This is unfair. If I took a two week tour to Paris, Berlin, Italy, Athens, and Madrid, you can't expect me to learn French, German, Italy, Athens, and Spanish. Europeans are emmersed in other languages and Americans are not. We can travel a thousand miles in any direction and only run into one other language (maybe two if you count French). If I knew Spanish, would I be accused of being an uncultured American in France? Probably.



When it comes to attempt to speak the language, I dont think he means you have to learn it, but to try and communicate with them, whether it be through books or learning a little bit before you go there.

I see that so much here in Germany. Most of the Germans speak very good english, since it it is required to learn it in school here, but they prefer and consider it polite if you attempt to speak a little in there language, even if it is just Hallo or Wie Geht es dir? Once the effort is made they will speak english with you.

The problem with so many Americans over here is they litterally have the attitude (I am not joking about this they actually think this) "We won the war, they better speak english to me!"

I think that is bullshit!


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 6, 2006)

Heh. I live in an officially bilingual country, and do you think I speak the other language (French)? Naaahh. 
Does it make me uncultured? Yeah probably, but WTF. In fact, a lot of French-Canadians are so indignant about the fact that the rest of us can't speak their lingo that they'll resfuse to speak English to us. Try asking for directions in Québec sometimes. "Quoi? Je ne parle pas anglais." Pffffffff. Up yours, tool. 

Fact is, in North America and indeed in much of the world, English is _the_ language. Aside from the odd community or places like Québec, it's everywhere. It's the international language of trade and commerce. Even in the major markets of the Orient. If you can't or won't deal in English, you ain't gonna get very far. Fact o' life.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2006)

Yes but if you are a tourist in another country, you can not expect the locals to speak english for you. It is not there language. They should speak if you are polite and make an effort but if you go with this shitty attitude that I see so many over here do, then no I dont blame the Germans for not speaking english with them and I would not either.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 6, 2006)

I'm all for trying. I _do_ try my hand at French when in Québec or around a group of francophones, but I royally suck at it. Most of them just laugh, put up their hands, and say, "Dats alright buddy, we'll speak English.".


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## Twitch (Jul 6, 2006)

That's great! Your poll and 85¢ will get you a cup of coffee.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2006)

And that is the way it should be. People dont have to be assholes about it.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 6, 2006)

But Twitch, I don't have 85 cents.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2006)

Twitch said:


> That's great! Your poll and 85¢ will get you a cup of coffee.



What?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 6, 2006)

Nonskimmer said:


> Try asking for directions in Québec sometimes. "Quoi? Je ne parle pas anglais." Pffffffff. Up yours, tool.



You mean Centre Ville wasn't a Montreal suburb?


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 6, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> You mean Centre Ville wasn't a Montreal suburb?


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## davparlr (Jul 6, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Well I hope you are not offended with the comment that made.



Not at all. You have a unique perspective on this subject and a valued input.




> To help you understand I will put it like this. Everyone makes stereotypes of everyone. If anyone denies this, then they are blind to the real world. Now having said this, alot of what people are saying here is stereotyping of Europe that is not true. Americans have a habbit of doing this because they dont know any better about what it is like over here in Europe. They only know what they are tought and what they see on TV through the media and TV shows.



Unfortunately we see each other through a small window often tinted by others. I am sure that much perception about Americans have been from the movies. Much perception about Europeans also come from the movies, the movie makers creation of what he wants the European (African, Asian) to be.



> Good example everyone thinks that Germans like David Hasselhof (yes he was popular over here in the 80's [he was popular in the US as well with Knightrider] and the early 90's) because of shows like Eurotrip (which was a great movie!) and Dodgeball and other shows that show up on TV in the states. You dont know how many times I hear from Americans "Germans are gay because they all like David Hasselfof!" when in fact he is no more popular over here than he in the states.



Good grief, I like David Hasselhof.




> Do they do the same in Europe? Ofcourse they do. Most of the stereotypes come from the Americans that they see here on a day to day basis and lets be honest a large population of the soldiers here do not act very polite or friendly, especially when there is alcohol involved.



Agreed, however, I suspect all soldiers behave in such a manner, especially when alcohol is involved. Only, there tends to be more American soldiers around in foreign countries. When I was in training in the Air Force, we had two NATO student pilots from Norway. They promptly went down to Oklahoma City, got drunk and was thrown in jail for disorderly conduct. Our Squadron leader had to go down and bail them out. No other student pilots (American, Irani, Afganistan, even Marines) got into that type of trouble. How do you think the folks in Oklahoma felt about Norwegians (and maybe even Europeans in general), probably the first ones they ever met.



> Well to be honest, I have been to both schools in the US and Germany and I have to say the history classes that are tought in US schools are lacking. They teach only an Americanized form of History and leave out a lot. In US history books, WW1 was won single handedly by the US, WW2 was won single handedly by the US...



No argument here. My experience confirms these comments. I do think things are getting better. Sometimes I think a little overboard the other way. History should be history, unfortunately, it tends to be the opinon of he who interprets of history.



> Is that eneogh of an example. They leave out much of the world. It is a proven fact that most Americans do not even know where the country of Lichtenstein is.



Thats not true! Every Boy Scout knows that Lichtenstein grows on the North side of a tree, how else can you find North when there are clouds. 

On the other hand, how many Europeans know where Rhode Island is? And "in the US is not acceptable". Rhode Island is much bigger than Lichtenstein. Probably the same number as Americans that could find Rhode Island. I do think you have a valid point here.

That is very true. The media manipulates the way people think. It is this way all over the world.



> This is basically what I dont like. I am a US/German citizen who was born and raised in Europe but lived for many years in the United States. I have seen both sides of the house. I dont like how some people (I will not give names but you know you are) make these stereotypes that are completly wrong, because they dont know anything outside of there sphere called the USA. Basically what I am saying is this, if you do not know or understand something, learn first then pass judgement.



I agree. America has alway been mostly interested in its own development. Prior to WWII we were intensly isolationist (we had all we needed, just don't bother us). We have had to face global relationships only for the last 70 years and have been slow to develop out global social graces.



> And US citizen make fools out of themselves everywhere as well. I see it on a day to day basis here in Germany. If you saw how they acted you would be ashamed of yourself.



Well, I don't think I would be ashamed of myself, maybe him.



> And as for that *Euro-tards remark*, I am giving you ****ing warning now. There are plenty of Europeans on this forum including the German side of me. I will not tolerate you making open offending remarks to them. I dont give a damn what your agenda is! Dont get me started syscom, I really do like you, I think for the most part we see eye to eye on a lot of things and get along but I have no problem becoming an ******* and bringing a hammer down.



Syscom3 does provide you with a lots of good examples. However, a few of his more rational comments are valid.

One last comment. I tend to pick up that you think that we like American airplanes just because we are American. I think that that is pretty normal. I believe the English fight for the spitfire and lancaster, the Germans fight for the Me-109 and Fw-190, etc., The Americans fight for P-51, P-47, etc. That makes for good discussions. The fact that the arguments are so hard to win is that most of these planes were just magnificent.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 6, 2006)

davparlr said:


> Not at all. You have a unique perspective on this subject and a valued input.



Thankyou as you do as well.



davparlr said:


> Unfortunately we see each other through a small window often tinted by others. I am sure that much perception about Americans have been from the movies. Much perception about Europeans also come from the movies, the movie makers creation of what he wants the European (African, Asian) to be.



Agreed 100%



davparlr said:


> Good grief, I like David Hasselhof.



I cant stand him, and if you had ever heard the german language music albums that he put out over you would undestand why.

"Du Bist Alles..."

AAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

 



davparlr said:


> Agreed, however, I suspect all soldiers behave in such a manner, especially when alcohol is involved. Only, there tends to be more American soldiers around in foreign countries. When I was in training in the Air Force, we had two NATO student pilots from Norway. They promptly went down to Oklahoma City, got drunk and was thrown in jail for disorderly conduct. Our Squadron leader had to go down and bail them out. No other student pilots (American, Irani, Afganistan, even Marines) got into that type of trouble. How do you think the folks in Oklahoma felt about Norwegians (and maybe even Europeans in general), probably the first ones they ever met.



Agreed and what you just said is basically what I have been trying to get at. When that is all you know, that is what you think of them all and that goes for everyone in the world.



davparlr said:


> No argument here. My experience confirms these comments. I do think things are getting better. Sometimes I think a little overboard the other way. History should be history, unfortunately, it tends to be the opinon of he who interprets of history.



I do sincerly hope that it is getting better, because my children will go to American schools in Alaska.



davparlr said:


> Thats not true! Every Boy Scout knows that Lichtenstein grows on the North side of a tree, how else can you find North when there are clouds.







davparlr said:


> On the other hand, how many Europeans know where Rhode Island is? And "in the US is not acceptable". Rhode Island is much bigger than Lichtenstein. Probably the same number as Americans that could find Rhode Island. I do think you have a valid point here.



And you do have a very valid point there that is probably very true.




davparlr said:


> Syscom3 does provide you with a lots of good examples. However, a few of his more rational comments are valid.



You are correct. That is why I like him, believe it or not. He contributes very well to this forum and I have learned a lot from him. It is not what he says, it is the way he says it...



davparlr said:


> One last comment. I tend to pick up that you think that we like American airplanes just because we are American. I think that that is pretty normal. I believe the English fight for the spitfire and lancaster, the Germans fight for the Me-109 and Fw-190, etc., The Americans fight for P-51, P-47, etc. That makes for good discussions. The fact that the arguments are so hard to win is that most of these planes were just magnificent.



Not really. I think all the planes were great, no matter who made them. Each had there own qualities that made them great and I love learning about them. I just dont like the way some things are worded I guess or how some people can not even consider or look into the other side of things.


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## SpitfireKing (Jul 6, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> I think what many fail to realize here that if Kerry was president, we probably wouldn't of seen much of a difference with regards to Iraq - when Bush speaks he sounds like an idiot, good ole Texas "good ole boy" and even when he does well, he'll always have that stigma - he's a white southern richman, the type the media loves to hate. But then again if Bush wasn't Pres, who's the alternatives?!?! Hilliary? Gore? Kerry? How about Al Sharpton?!?!?
> 
> As far as loud obnoxious Americans - yes there are many, we admit it, it's the same bunch that go on the 65% overweight statistic discussed on the other threads...



PRAISE THE LORD, AL SHARPTON IN THE HOUSE! WOO YEAH. *cough cough*


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## davparlr (Jul 6, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> The problem with so many Americans over here is they litterally have the attitude (I am not joking about this they actually think this) "We won the war, they better speak english to me!"
> 
> QUOTE]
> I don't think that is the attitude of most Americans, except maybe obnoxious soldiers, but maybe of the Brits . Most Americans could care less about who won the war. Their attitude is probably more like "We're Americans, you should speak English". I think a lot of Americans are spoiled because so much of the world does speak english that it is not difficult to find someone who speaks it. My sister lived and taught school for the Army in Frankfurt am Main for 10 years (I think). All she could say was "Voe ist der Gutenburg Musuem"! She would feel guilty if she read this thread. On one of my crew rest in Frankfurt, she took me out for dinner and warned that many of the restaurants are front for prostitution. Sure enough she found one. The food was great and so was the view! She did tell me that the Germans were not appreciative of her butchering their language and perfered to talk in english. She loved Germany. She now lives north of Anchorage in Alaska. Where are you going. We will be visiting her in August.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 7, 2006)

I will not be in the Anchorage area until September for a bit, while I look at my land.


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## plan_D (Jul 7, 2006)

_"I don't think that is the attitude of most Americans, except maybe obnoxious soldiers, but maybe of the Brits"_

Are you trying to tell me that I didn't attempt to speak German while in Germany? I see you're another one of those American's that hates the "Evil British Empire" because everytime you mention stereotypes you have to add that "it's probably true for the Brits". *******.


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## R988 (Jul 7, 2006)

> In answer to other questions, a majority of the Britons questions described Americans as uncaring, divided by class, awash in violent crime, vulgar, preoccupied with money, ignorant of the outside world, racially divided, uncultured and in the most overwhelming result (90 percent of respondents) dominated by big business."



Most of Britain is pretty much exactly the same aside for ignorance of the world, most Britons are well aware of the outside world and hate most of it for some reason or another, or else spend their time there getting drunk and being obnoxious whilst shouting at the locals in English and complaining if they dont speak it, because Britain does have the lowest rate of second language speakers in Europe. Of course not all Britons are like this, just as not all Americans are as described, these polls are nothing but a crock of shite on a slow news day.


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## plan_D (Jul 7, 2006)

I thought only the British did this, but a Dutch person did it to me in Amsterdam. When people can't speak the language, why do they assume that if they shout louder and talk slower that the person will understand them? 

Britain's awful image comes from the places all the assh*les go. All the places that thrive on the British clubbers pass on the image of a British holiday maker. But when you go somewhere there's a few British people out to enjoy a real holiday, then they're not bad at all. It's a shame the lager louts caught on to Gran Canaria, I liked that country!


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## davparlr (Jul 7, 2006)

plan_D said:


> _"I don't think that is the attitude of most Americans, except maybe obnoxious soldiers, but maybe of the Brits"_
> 
> Are you trying to tell me that I didn't attempt to speak German while in Germany? I see you're another one of those American's that hates the "Evil British Empire" because everytime you mention stereotypes you have to add that "it's probably true for the Brits". *******.



I realize that I was making a little too much fun of the Brits. I think they are great. My mother-in-law is from Leicester and we have many wonderful relatives there. They have been a strong and trusting ally for a long time and I hold them in high esteem. What I said was in jest and I hope I didn't offend anyone.


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## Henk (Jul 9, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> I live in a city of 75000..........



You can not call that a city, that is a town, wow George where I live have more people.

I must say that the way I did see Americans as arrogant @ssholes, but since I have been here and and have been getting to know you yanks more I would say you do get awesome Americans they all are not @ssholes, but if you guys can see how the American tourist are here and their attitude here you guys would understand. 

The Brits, well I do not know what to say because I do not know much about you guys. 

So since I have had friends and family over in the US I would say I must say that the Americans are now lazy, know it all and think they own the world. Remember that is how I see them and the way it was told to me, not by one but many, but it is not all of you yanks though. 

I say this not to say bad stuff but just how I see it and the way most of us here see it and Bush the son of a b*tch just makes everything worse when he opens his mouth or does something.

The jobs that the US people does not want to do now is great work, they must just put a bit of muscle into it and work, but it is easier to get people from countries where the people needs jobs and are desperate to get work and money and then give them a great big F you and treat them like sh*t.

I would really love to go to the EU and see a lot of stuff there, but the US, well I do not know. I will vissot a friend and some museums, but the way we see it here it piss me off a lot and would not want to vissot the US. 

So to end the long bullshit story I would just like to say to you US guys I must say that you do get great people everywhere and do not take it personnel or think I want to talk bullshit about you, but this is the way we see you here.


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## lesofprimus (Jul 9, 2006)

As an American who has spent alot of time overseas, most American tourists are retards and meatballs.... I have been embarrassed many many times by them... I can recall right off the top of my head 2 vacations I took with my wife where we hung out with the Brits and then the Irish tourists (clubs, dinners, beach etc) instead of with my own countrymen/women, because they were nothing but a bunch of clods....

Its pretty much the same in every country guys.... There is always a contingent of [email protected], in ANY countries population, and for some reason, they are the ones going abroad and on holiday...

What honestly gets me about my country, as Henk said, is the laziness.... Many people would rather sit on their [email protected] and collect unemployment benefits instead of getting a job, and they are a leech and a bane on my society.... If ur able to work, get a freakin job... McDonald's down here is paying 9 bucks an hour for christsakes....

To be honest here guys, I dont have to work.. I have enough $$$ to live happily ever after and not bother with anything, but my mind desires a challenge, and to that end, I dont think Ill ever retire, just maybe take longer vacations lol.... Sometimes Im very embarrassed to be an American, for no other reason than my countrymens behavior...

As for the worlds opinion of Americans, who gives a ****..... I live in the greatest country in the world, and nothing u South Americans, Africans, Euros or Orientals say bothers me at all... My country is a warmongering country led by a redneck from Texas....

Who cares.... Just about everyone I know could care less about "World Opinion"...


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 9, 2006)

F#ckin eh, ditto!!!!!


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## Henk (Jul 9, 2006)

lesofprimus said:


> As an American who has spent alot of time overseas, most American tourists are retards and meatballs.... I have been embarrassed many many times by them... I can recall right off the top of my head 2 vacations I took with my wife where we hung out with the Brits and then the Irish tourists (clubs, dinners, beach etc) instead of with my own countrymen/women, because they were nothing but a bunch of clods....
> 
> Its pretty much the same in every country guys.... There is always a contingent of [email protected], in ANY countries population, and for some reason, they are the ones going abroad and on holiday...
> 
> ...



I agree with you 100%, but you know Les it does make a difference if you vissot a place and people treat you like **** because the see you for the @ssholes that give your country a poor name.

Flyboy I did not understand that please explain.

SO I think guys we should stop thinking of this kind of sh*t and stop with the dissing of each other and just diss someone because of the country he or she is from. None of us can say that one of the countries of all the members here are perfect. We all have the same sh*t and problems in their countries.


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## syscom3 (Jul 9, 2006)

The biggest assholes Ive ever met were French naval personell.

In Jakarta back in Aug 1995, a bunch of them went to the various local bars and pubs looking for fights. As luck would have it, they got drunk and "mistakenly" picked up some transvestites. It reaffirmed my belief in the theory of bad karma.

If theres another annoying thing about LOTS of Europeans, is the proclivity to lecture the US about the Kyoto treaty, even though 1) They dont know the details of the treaty, 2) They dont know that China and India were exempt from the protocols, 3) They dont understand that treaties in the US need senate confirmation 4) Clinton never submitted it and 5) It was a thinly disguised attempt at taxing the heck out of the US economy and ruining it. 6) The shear size of the US means we need cheap gasoline in many endevours.


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## syscom3 (Jul 9, 2006)

> In answer to other questions, a majority of the Britons questions described Americans as uncaring, divided by class, awash in violent crime, vulgar, preoccupied with money, ignorant of the outside world, racially divided, uncultured and in the most overwhelming result (90 percent of respondents) dominated by big business."



See that proves at least a majority of Brtions have no idea of the US except for what theyre told by the their govt sponsored and leftist leaning news organs and what they see in the movies.

Uncaring? The US govt and the individual person both give the largest per capita aid in the world. And there is lots of indirect aid proveded by the US Govt that benefits the world in whole.

Divided by class? What in the world does that mean? You mean poor people live in one area and rich people live in another? Someone define this concept of "class warfare" and "working class"?

Awash in violent crime? Some area's yes. Some area's no. In some crimes as measured by per capita we are far lower than many big cities in Europe. Some cities in the US of fairly big size have crime rates that are extremely low. I dont know of a single area in any city in California where there is a "No Go Zone" for police and authorities like they have in France (maybe now in some British) cities. 

Vulgar. Well that they might be correct on.

Preoccupied with money? Well, BETTER to be rich than poor. 

Ignorant of the outside world? Some people dont care about what goes on outside of their neighborhoods, some do. You can find that anywhere in the world.

Racially divided? It might come as a shock to some Europeans, but many people on their own free will tend to like to settle in the same neighborhoods as their own income levels. Nothing wrong with that. As for racial probems? Here in southern california, the main issue is racial violence between black and latino's. Whites and asians dont have these problems. Of course most Europeans ALWAYS think its white vs black. And when you ask them about what specific things makes them think their is a huge racial divide in the country, and they sound like theyre listening to news reports from the 60's. Like they're stuck in a mental time warp, with their brains locked into only listening to "experts" from their socialist dominated media who cherry pick news stories to prove their points.

Uncultured? I didnt know you had to be cultured to be an intelligent and decent person.

Dominated by big business? So theyre better off by being dominated by big govt? At least I can stop buying the products of a big business. And its not like they dont have "big business" in Britain?


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## pbfoot (Jul 9, 2006)

actually the US is rather low on the amount per person just ahead of Portugal in 21st place and a full 30% of US foreign aid goes to Israel which puts Israel at 9th place on the welfare list just a little ahead of Ethiopia
The US and Foreign Aid Assistance - Global Issues


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 9, 2006)

Henk said:


> Flyboy I did not understand that please explain.


It meant I agree with him.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 9, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> actually the US is rather low on the amount per person just ahead of Portugal in 21st place and a full 30% of US foreign aid goes to Israel which puts Israel at 9th place on the welfare list just a little ahead of Ethiopia
> The US and Foreign Aid Assistance - Global Issues


But that's per capita - look at the chart for actual dollars...

Net ODA in 2005 as US dollar amounts Country Aid amount by dollars 
Source: Aid flows top USD 100 billion in 2005, OECD, April 2006 (preliminary data)

USA 27,457 
Japan 13,101 
UK 10,754 
France 10,059 
Germany 9,915 
Netherlands 5,131 
Italy 5,053 
Canada 3,731 
Sweden 3,280 
Spain 3,123 
Norway 2,775 
Denmark 2,107 
Belgium 1,975 
Switzerland 1,771 
Australia 1,666 
Austria 1,552 
Finland 897 
Ireland 692 
Greece 535 
Portugal 367 
New Zealand 274 
Luxembourg 264


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## pbfoot (Jul 9, 2006)

I misread syscoms post and thought he was stating amount per capita but I erred oh and heres a pic of Fleet and across the road for some memories for you


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 9, 2006)

WOW!!! Haven't seen the place since 1988 - it hasn't changed much. I remember when the Eurocopter plant was built. Are they still operating there?

Thanks for the pics - brings back a lot of memories!


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## syscom3 (Jul 9, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> actually the US is rather low on the amount per person just ahead of Portugal in 21st place and a full 30% of US foreign aid goes to Israel which puts Israel at 9th place on the welfare list just a little ahead of Ethiopia
> The US and Foreign Aid Assistance - Global Issues



That does not include money, physical items or volunteer time to many charitable organizations at a neighborhood or city level.

The US is VERY charitable at the personal and lcoal level.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 9, 2006)

syscom3 said:


> See that proves at least a majority of Brtions have no idea of the US except for what theyre told by the their govt sponsored and leftist leaning news organs and what they see in the movies.



When Americans like you syscom3 start to open there minds and learn more about the outside world, I am sure they will do the same...

Stop being a frickin hypocrit.

All this fighting with you makes me look like I hate the US when I love the ****ing US and even ****ing serve it.


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## syscom3 (Jul 9, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> When Americans like you syscom3 start to open there minds and learn more about the outside world, I am sure they will do the same...
> 
> ...




Ive been to enough places around the world and met enough of the "natives" to know what I'm talking about.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 9, 2006)

syscom3 said:


> Ive been to enough places around the world and met enough of the "natives" to know what I'm talking about.



Stop lying to yourself syscom. You dont know ****. When you go and live among the people then you can open your fricken pie hole! I am really sick of you now!

You have not met crap, you have not lived crap. Get a life!

I am actually finished with this conversation now, because I am sick of your hypocritcal ways. At first I thought you were just doing this to make for interesting talking but I have figured you and your agenda out.


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## syscom3 (Jul 9, 2006)

Ive lived in Japan and Indonesia for weeks on end.

Does that count?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 9, 2006)

Anyone else care to carry on an intelligent conversation.


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## Henk (Jul 9, 2006)

Do we ever have a intelligent conversation here? LOL LOL


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 9, 2006)

Yeah most people actually join in on them.


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## pbfoot (Jul 9, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> WOW!!! Haven't seen the place since 1988 - it hasn't changed much. I remember when the Eurocopter plant was built. Are they still operating there?
> 
> Thanks for the pics - brings back a lot of memories!


yeah they sure are don't know what they are but helicopters they are


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 9, 2006)

They were building MBB 105s when I was there - actually saw one land hard on my way to lunch!


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## pbfoot (Jul 9, 2006)

I'm really lame at helicopters they all look alike to me familiarity breeds contempt as they are around here 24/7 but the last couple I've seen at MBB have been red


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## davparlr (Jul 9, 2006)

Henk said:


> So since I have had friends and family over in the US I would say I must say that the Americans are now lazy, know it all and think they own the world. Remember that is how I see them and the way it was told to me, not by one but many, but it is not all of you yanks though.
> 
> I say this not to say bad stuff but just how I see it and the way most of us here see it and Bush the son of a b*tch just makes everything worse when he opens his mouth or does something.



Actually, the hours worked by Americans per week is higher than most industrialized nations and the productivity is higher per hour than most industrialized nations. In addition, 95% of all Americans looking for work finds it. How many nations would love to have that statistic. Mix all of this together and you have a powerful economy, not one driven by lazy workers as you and others have claimed. All of this while Bush has been President. Since he initiated his tax reduction program, the U.S. economy had generated a growth of 22 trillion dollars or an amount larger than the entire economy of China. Doesn't sound like Bush makes everything worse does it? It sounds to me that some people are swallowing the bull that the news organizations put out.


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## davparlr (Jul 9, 2006)

syscom3 said:


> That does not include money, physical items or volunteer time to many charitable organizations at a neighborhood or city level.
> 
> The US is VERY charitable at the personal and lcoal level.


I agree with this, the US has large organizations for charity including huge active church groups. These are never counted in government giving. You might ask Bono what kind of success he had with American charity organizations in his AIDS drive.


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## syscom3 (Jul 9, 2006)

When I got my tax break from Bush, I bought some new sofa's for my house I just bought. And they were actually made in a southern California factory.

Bush has my eternal gratitude by understanding that I have the unique ability to decide where my tax rebate goes and not the govt.

And my neighbors undoubtably used their own tax refunds for their own purposes and thats good for them.


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## SpitfireKing (Jul 10, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> No the French think everyone is uncultured!
> 
> Man it is going to suck when I go to Paris in August. They hate the Americans and the Germans so I am really screwed being German/American!



You right that is going to suck. As Robin Williams said about the French,
"If the french had a baseball team everyone would be in left field and noone would be safe." 

Sorry if I pissed any French people on this site off.


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## syscom3 (Jul 10, 2006)

SpitfireKing said:


> You right that is going to suck. As Robin Williams said about the French,
> "If the french had a baseball team everyone would be in left field and noone would be safe."
> 
> Sorry if I pissed any French people on this site off.


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## MacArther (Jul 11, 2006)

Oy, I hate to be a nuisance, but I really dislike how some of the other nations seem to stereotype America and her people. This is not to say that some of use don't do the same, and that even fewer fall into the stereotypical catagories. Still, I love my country, and at the same time, I hold deep respect for other cultures. I don't know, maybe I should set up clinics world wide to help overcome the problems that visiting Americans present at times. Its my personal opinion that if you cannot repect the culture, and stay below the decible range of an airliner in public D ) , you should not be touring other countries. I greatly appreciate *all* the sacrafices made by *all* countries involved in fighting terrorism. It has already been ascertained that I cannot serve actively in the military, so the best thing I can do now is pray for all of the soldiers, whether for consolation for their families, or for their safe return. Anyway, back to the subject at hand, polls work in theory, just like Communism. Emphasis on *in theory*! With the slants that all of the news networks have today, its a wonder that people can find truths beneath all the loads of garbage. I personally read and watch stories from both Democratic and Republican leaning media sources so I can ascertain the real truth of the matter, despite the fact that I'm staunch Republican and would seem more likely to follow the party blindly. As per the G.W. Bush bashing I would like to refer to the all telling statement that has been especially prevalent in the Bush administration "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." No matter what Bush does, there is always going to be someone that will be unhappy. To say that the current president is doing a good job would be hitting it on the mark. As already mentioned, he and a rare few other leaders in current and past times actually listen to their gut, their friends, and their heart. This comes in stark contrast to many leaders who seemed to have a political motive behind everything they did. Bush isn't perfect, neither is America, but that's is what makes us strong, because we work hard to make up for any failings we might have. 

Lastly, does anyone know if most people from Lebannon are extremely devoute in terms of faith? Because if my friend (who our classmates tried to send a letter of recomendation for the papacy when JPII died), then thats where I wanna live, that or a host of other places, inluding many places in the US (preferably cold ones).


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 11, 2006)

MacArther said:


> but I really dislike how some of the other nations seem to stereotype America and her people. This is not to say that some of use don't do the same, and that even fewer fall into the stereotypical catagories. Still, I love my country, and at the same time, I hold deep respect for other cultures.



And people from other nations really dislike it when Americans stereotype there nations aswell. It goes both ways my friend. They love there countries as well too and dont appreciate when all of them are thrown into one pot as some people here tend to do (you know who you are).

That is where I run into a real problem. I am German and American. I have lived in both countries, own land in both countries and love both countries with all my heart. I try to defend both countries as much as possible on this forum but sometimes it gets really hard.


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## pbfoot (Jul 11, 2006)

I don't think an american living in Lebanon would be my first choice or even 70th it wasn't that long ago a large number of Marines were killed there and lets not forget the USS New Jersey shelling the place


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 11, 2006)

And the fact that they dont like Westerners or Americans there....


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## MacArther (Jul 11, 2006)

Hmmm, must be his family and group of friends down there then. I say that because as I mentioned, many people were trying to get together signatures at our school to have him in the running for the papacy (being Pope) when JPII died. He really is that great a kid.
Well, is Japan or England a nice place? I would like to visit someplace with a load of history as a college student studying abroad, and those two have always piqued my interest.



> That is where I run into a real problem. I am German and American. I have lived in both countries, own land in both countries and love both countries with all my heart. I try to defend both countries as much as possible on this forum but sometimes it gets really hard.


I know the feeling. People tend to look at the Irish and think of drunkards, where I feel that we have a great history and such. The shirts with the "I'm Irish, Beer me" REALLY don't help at times. Yes, I am American, but I'm 1/2 Irish thanks to my dad's side of the family marrying only Irish people until dad met mom.


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## Henk (Jul 11, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> And people from other nations really dislike it when Americans stereotype there nations aswell. It goes both ways my friend. They love there countries as well too and dont appreciate when all of them are thrown into one pot as some people here tend to do (you know who you are).
> 
> That is where I run into a real problem. I am German and American. I have lived in both countries, own land in both countries and love both countries with all my heart. I try to defend both countries as much as possible on this forum but sometimes it gets really hard.



I agree with you there Adler. I also stereotype and I will confess to that and it is not right, I feel it when people do it against my country.

I have learned not to say anything bad against other peoples countries because I do not like it.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 12, 2006)

And that is a good way to live by.

Everyone stereotypes but unfortunatly some people live by it because they truely believe it.


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## Henk (Jul 13, 2006)

Idiots. LOL


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## pbfoot (Jul 13, 2006)

Every body stereo types in some way or other its bred into you in some way or other unless you had Mother Theresa and the Dalai Lama as your parents


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 14, 2006)

A lot of it is brought on by your parents and there beliefs.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 14, 2006)

Quite right. My grandmother is one of the most rascist people you'll ever meet. Blacks in particular. It's a shame, because she's otherwise a very kind and sweet old lady. She's 93.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 14, 2006)

Yes there are people like that in my family as well. I am sure you will find it in most families.


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## lesofprimus (Jul 14, 2006)

While I wouldnt consider myself a racist or a bigot, I would admit that I am highly opinionated and rather crass towards certain elements of the minority population...

However, Ive always considered myself slightly askew of the society norm, so I guess it all works out...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 14, 2006)

I look at this way. I dont care what color you, I dont care about your background, its how you act. You wanna act like a fool, I will treat you like one.


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## SpitfireKing (Jul 14, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> Every body stereo types in some way or other its bred into you in some way or other unless you had Mother Theresa and the Dalai Lama as your parents



I wonder what it be like to have them as parents. Most likly strange as heck.


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## SpitfireKing (Jul 14, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I look at this way. I dont care what color you, I dont care about your background, its how you act. You wanna act like a fool, I will treat you like one.



Makes since Adler. You can be a fool for fun, or a fool who who is just plain, well, foolish. If you act like a nice guy in public but an arse in home, your definitely no ANGEL. If you act like a fool in public but are not a bad guy at home, your not an angel. You can be good, but never great. You can be bad, but never hellish( I hope that's a word.). Every act shows people what you want to show them. Act like an arse and you get treated like one. No matter your color, background, race, sex, or anything those are not an excuse to be something. There just you.-


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## plan_D (Jul 15, 2006)

I f*cking hate you all, no matter where you come from. Be it Britain, USA, Russia or Somalia you're all f*ck-offs just some people are more in the f*ck-off department than others.


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## Henk (Jul 15, 2006)

Ag thanks D I know you care.


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## trackend (Jul 16, 2006)

plan_D said:


> I f*cking hate you all, no matter where you come from. Be it Britain, USA, Russia or Somalia you're all f*ck-offs .



What even me D? Oh I'm cut to the quick you little tinker.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 16, 2006)

You did not seem to hate me when you came down to Germany for Rock im Park.


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## trackend (Jul 16, 2006)

Thats cause he was within the whooping zone Adler


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 16, 2006)

Aw, he can't hate me though. I tend to grow on people. 

Much like an exotic fungus.


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## MacArther (Jul 16, 2006)

> Much like an exotic fungus.



Riiiiiigggghhht.... Perhaps a little too much info? Oy, is it bad or good if a former school has so little diversity that it celebrates anyone that is of a different background than Anglo-Saxon?


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## plan_D (Jul 16, 2006)

I correct that. I like Chris 'cos he rocks and a great laugh. And I was in the whooping zone. Chris is a lot bigger than me, I'm not stupid.


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## 102first_hussars (Jul 17, 2006)

Nonskimmer said:


> Aw, he can't hate me though. I tend to grow on people.
> 
> Much like an exotic fungus.



More like sh*t on velcro


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 17, 2006)

Naw I am a peaceful man and friendly to all.


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