# M60 Machine Gun: Newfound Respect



## Matt308 (Dec 12, 2006)

I had read so much bad press about the M60. I'll now read those with a grain of salt. This is impressive. 1500rds of solid tracer with only one major jam and a couple of stoppages. While the video has obviously been cut, I would have thought that the weapon would have failed to fire at some point during this demonstration. Wonder if it worked post video.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 13, 2006)

I used the M-60D Machine gun as my door gun from my UH-60L Blackhawk for 6 years. Never, ever had a problem with it. I love the gun. Even in the sandy conditions of Iraq I never had a problem with her.


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## Matt308 (Dec 13, 2006)

Well that video speaks volumes to me! As someone who has fired an AK until it almost caught fire, that M60 demo is REALLY impressive. Wonder if the piston welded itself to the barrel once it cooled off. I gotta believe.


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## lesofprimus (Dec 13, 2006)

Ive used the M60 in the past, including some long drawn out firefights, and never ever had a jam or stoppage...

It pays to keep ur weapon clean and oiled up....


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## Matt308 (Dec 13, 2006)

So true. Anyone who owns a semiauto and does not invest in decent cleaning equipment for their bugout gear is kidding themselves.


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## schwarzpanzer (Dec 14, 2006)

It runs away though and test conditions probably weren't as humid or harsh as Vietnam?

Snag the belt and you'll also likely knacker it.

I'd like to see how one performs in arctic conditions though.



> 1500rds of solid tracer with only one major jam and a couple of stoppages.



That's not impressive, a Gympy (FN MAG, M240) could do that in a minute - with no stoppages. It's also nothing compared to the MG3, or infact most GPMG's.

I think having a low cyclic rate can be good though and stellite is also good, but I still believe the M60 to be a flawed design, I even rate the Bren and RPD better.



> It pays to keep ur weapon clean and oiled up....



Unless it's Russian and in sandy/dusty conditions.


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2006)

schwarzpanzer that is what I have read too. And the DoD procuring M60 replacements in the form of M60E4 is rather telling. However, I don't discout Les' comments. Regarding 1500rds OF SOLID TRACER in one long string without barrel change is certainly not per use doctrine. While I don't doubt that other weapon systems could do the same, my only point was that the M60E3 supposedly plagued by so many problems didn't seem to choke on a fairly robust test.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 14, 2006)

schwarzpanzer said:


> It runs away though and test conditions probably weren't as humid or harsh as Vietnam?



Never had a M-60 run away on me. 

Also I used the M-60D every day for a year in conditions harsher than Vietnam and never had one jam or a problem with my gun once. We had a few problems in the beginning of Iraq because we did not use our Brass Deflectors on the right side of the aircraft (the problem only occurs on the right side) and the wind caused by the helicopter in flight would blow the spent casings back into the feed tray and jam the gun. We quickly designed our own brass deflectors that were not army issue and never had a problem since.

The gun is proven and works great, I know from first hand experience.

Dont take me wrong if I were still in the Army I would be happy to use the new M240G (or is it H) that we use as the door guns now on the UH-60s.

Snag the belt and you'll also likely knacker it.



schwarzpanzer said:


> I'd like to see how one performs in arctic conditions though.



I have used one in -20 Degrees (granted that aint quite arctic though) and it performed just fine.




schwarzpanzer said:


> but I still believe the M60 to be a flawed design, I even rate the Bren and RPD better.



I beg to differ, it is a great design. There are probably better designs out there but the M60 works great. There were problems with it when it first came out but the bugs have been worked out and it works great.


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## schwarzpanzer (Dec 15, 2006)

> I don't discout Les' comments



Nor do I Matt.



> Regarding 1500rds OF SOLID TRACER in one long string without barrel change is certainly not per use doctrine.



I'm a firm beliver in testing to destruction and over-compensation. A GPMG should be the most sturdy and reliable, perhaps even moreso than an AK. At least American pistols are tested well for RBF. But they are crap designs, eh DerAdler? (M9).



> the M60E3 supposedly plagued by so many problems



I suppose there are myths about the M60 even I haven't heard of? Surprises me - I keep my ears open for M60 complaints and I'd never trust one 100%.




> Never had a M-60 run away on me.



Did you fire your M60 for long periods DerAdler? Were you mobile at the time? (Airflow).



> We quickly designed our own brass deflectors that were not army issue and never had a problem since.



What about the feed? I heard that pintle-mount M60's were more reliable, 'can of peaches' etc.



> I have used one in -20 Degrees (granted that aint quite arctic though) and it performed just fine.



Was it sheltered in a vehicle? I meant left out overnight in -40, iced up and everything. I suppose personal weapons are taken care of, but as I said, I prefer to over-compensate.

How about rough treatment too, wear and tear etc? I know the M60E3 was the least reliable version.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 15, 2006)

schwarzpanzer said:


> Did you fire your M60 for long periods DerAdler? Were you mobile at the time? (Airflow).



Yes schwarzpanzer I did fire it for very very long periods of time. Have you ever been to an Army gunnery? We get about 50,000 rounds of ammo for about 20 people and fire until everyone is qualified. We dont just fire from air, most of it is actually for the new guys and they fire from the ground and use a lot of the ammo.

I promise you the M60 does not have a horrid tendency to run away alot.

My knowledge is not hear say or book knowledge. I used the gun for 6 years...



schwarzpanzer said:


> What about the feed? I heard that pintle-mount M60's were more reliable, 'can of peaches' etc.



The wind from the aircraft would blow the ejected rounds back through the ejector port into the feed tray and back into the chamber causeing a block. We fixed that problem by desiging a cover for the deflector that deflected the wind and never had a jam again.



schwarzpanzer said:


> Was it sheltered in a vehicle? I meant left out overnight in -40, iced up and everything. I suppose personal weapons are taken care of, but as I said, I prefer to over-compensate.



No it was on the ground in the snow and then from an aircraft travelling at 80knots which gave it a wind chill of -81 F. Thats pretty damn cold and the gun was exposed to these elements for about 12 hours. The Gun worked without a problem. Again this comes from experience, not hear say or book knowledge.



schwarzpanzer said:


> How about rough treatment too, wear and tear etc? I know the M60E3 was the least reliable version.



Taking a gun though sandstorms and blazing heat is rough eneogh. Gun still did not quit.

Again schwarzpanzer this is real life experience and knowledge not book knowledge or hearsay...


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## 102first_hussars (Dec 19, 2006)

schwarzpanzer said:


> That's not impressive, a Gympy (FN MAG, M240) could do that in a minute - with no stoppages. It's also nothing compared to the MG3, or infact most GPMG's.




No it cant, but it does depend on the weather conditions, i love the FN Mag for its reliability, but my god if you hold that trigger for 30 seconds it red hot, 15 seconds more its white then the barrel will fold, i hate the thing for its barrels, otherwise its awesome for reliability,


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 19, 2006)

Again I say real life knowledge not hear say or book knowledge...


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## 102first_hussars (Dec 20, 2006)

Uhh yeah it is real life knowledge, but thanks


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 20, 2006)

No **** Sherlock that is what I was saying...Think about the post before and read the others before it before you post.


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## Matt308 (Dec 20, 2006)

Everybody play nice in my thread. If relationships are gonna be destroyed, do it in Lanc's threads.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 20, 2006)

Its okay. You talk **** to Hussars, he talks **** to you....then you drink a virtual beer with him and all is good.


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## 102first_hussars (Dec 20, 2006)




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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 20, 2006)




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## Matt308 (Dec 21, 2006)

Cheers my friends.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 21, 2006)

Hey nobody insulted you. You are not allowed to drink.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 21, 2006)

i beg to differ, we insult each other all the time, the difference being i don't have to drown my sorrows in some purple liquid


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## 102first_hussars (Dec 21, 2006)

Every now and then its ok to go into a computer room and crawl into a bottle


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## Matt308 (Dec 21, 2006)

It has been known to happen. Lanc has even accused my duplicate postings being directly related to imbibing in purple liquid.

Close!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 21, 2006)

Oh okay you can drink purple liquid with us...


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## Matt308 (Dec 22, 2006)

Its always heart warming to be surrounded by people with similar dependencies.


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## schwarzpanzer (Jan 17, 2007)

You know something DerAdler, I wonder if it's the M60's foregrip that causes the problems, by acting as an insulator?

I thought the M240's M60-alike foregrip was a great idea (comfy!), but now I'm not so sure...

I've noticed that Yank support weapons have always had ergonomic foregrips when compared to other nations, e.g BAR (Foregrip) - Bren, MG42 (No foregrip). M60, M240 (Foregrip) - FN MAG (No foregrip).


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## k9kiwi (Jan 18, 2007)

> meant left out overnight in -40, iced up and everything.



ANY knobber that leaves their weapon out in that and then expects to go bang bang and hope like heck for another bang, had better be on another unit than me.

Cause if the enemy don't kill the Maroon, we will for stuffing up.

People die from a lack of reality. Balistics are only good when they are big and outgoing.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 18, 2007)

schwarzpanzer said:


> You know something DerAdler, I wonder if it's the M60's foregrip that causes the problems, by acting as an insulator?
> 
> I thought the M240's M60-alike foregrip was a great idea (comfy!), but now I'm not so sure...
> 
> I've noticed that Yank support weapons have always had ergonomic foregrips when compared to other nations, e.g BAR (Foregrip) - Bren, MG42 (No foregrip). M60, M240 (Foregrip) - FN MAG (No foregrip).



Our M-60s did not have a foregrip.


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## 102first_hussars (Jan 18, 2007)

Arent the Navy Seals making a 7.62 version of the M249 to replace the 
SF verion M-60


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## timshatz (Jan 18, 2007)

k9kiwi said:


> People die from a lack of reality.



That is a great quote. Says a lot.


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## glennasher (Jul 13, 2007)

I was a unit armorer in the 82nd Abn back in '79, I wasn't too impressed with the m60s we had. We got a few new ones in, and in less than 1000 rounds the rivets went out of the recievers, and they had to go in for depot maintenance to get that fixed (beyond our company armorer capabilities). That didn't make me all warm and fuzzy.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 14, 2007)

I never had any problem with my modified for Aircraft use M60D. It performed great and over 6 years I fired 10s of thousands of rounds out of it.


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