# I am repairing the Kelly Gang Halifax for a friend.



## N4521U (Jan 5, 2011)

I think I posted that I play golf with the son, he's in his 60's as well, of the bomb aimer aboard the Kelly Gang Hallifax who flew 30+ missions over Germany WWII and a DFC recipient. 

I visited Peter today and found his father, Arthur Blakeley had built a scale model of his plane. Sadly this plane is in a little sad state of disrepair, see pictures. I offered to do some repair for him. I don't want to repaint it, this seems to be in good order. I would like to replace some missing bits, the blister on the nose, Arthurs office, the gun bubble on the tail, repair the aelerons, and the guns of the top turret.I want to clean overall, coat with Pledge and replace the decals, except for the nose art. Needs landing gear replaced as well. Crikey.

The kit seems to be an old Revel kit as it is black plastic. A clue would be the rudders and aelerons are movable.If anyone has an old kit around, or know of one, that would be brilliant, I would pay for one. Parts would be excellent although all the parts I need would have been used in a build and not delegated to the spares bin. 

If Anyone can help it would be appreciated. This is something I would really like to do for Peter. Cheers, Bill

*I have since found Airfix made a kit with the LV917 SN, but was CN*P coded, 158 sqn. I have also found HX266 was listed as HD*E, but then again NR169 as HD*T Kelly Gang. Nothing very definitive. Very confusing. 
Now, has anyone ever seen the Kelly Gang decal before???


----------



## Airframes (Jan 5, 2011)

Yep, it's the old Airfix kit Bill, originally from the very early 1960s. It's still available, now in light grey or white plastic. I've had a look through my spares box, as I used to have some bits from this kit, but no luck I'm afraid. Might be easier to get the whole kit, or have a look at somewhere like Hannant's for such items as wheels, and rear turret, guns etc., though a complete kit would be a cheaper option.
Can't say I've seen anything of 'Kelly Gang', and the nose art looks hand-painted. I'll have a look through my Halifax books etc, see if I can come up with anything.
EDIT: Just thought, as the model is shown with 'spinning props', one option might be to take off the landing gear, and close the doors, then mount the model in a flying attitude?


----------



## N4521U (Jan 6, 2011)

Should this be moved to "start to finish Rebuild"?

In light of the above, I could use any parts anyone can come up with from an old Airfix kit. OR if someone finds one in a car boot sale, or a cheap incomplete kit. I specially need the aelerons, these are pretty toasted, they've been melted on the ends. One landing gear needs replacing. I Might be able to scratch repair it, but a new one would be magic. I am going to try and mold a wheel. I need the front bubble as it has been broken. I would like the canopy, this one is pretty discolored. I am trying to remove it to clean inside and out.

So far I have gotten the tail to come off at the glue repair done some time ago. It's been pretty easy as someone used the old LePages paper glue and it comes off even the paint without damage. I have the rudders and elevators moving and fitted pretty well and true. I will have to do some repair of broken tips around the tail plane, but that looks pretty easy so far. I have taken the yellow disks off, will replace with clear and will cast the hub for the missing prop.

Any cleaning product suggestions for dust and dirt? It appears the code letters have been hand painted. As suggested above, it Does look like the nose art has been HAND painted!!!!!!! Couldn't believe it when I looked really close. As I said before, I am not going to repaint, but will blend repaired areas.

I sailor on for Peter and his dad.


----------



## Wildcat (Jan 6, 2011)

G'day Bill, been doing some looking for you and have come up with the following pic from the Australian War Memorial site. As far as serial numbers go, Blakeley as part of the Kelly crew, flew in several differant Halifaxes. Some of the serials I've come up with are - 
MX401. MZ307. MZ294. MZ945. NR238. NR976. NR152 all MkIII's. (This was only after a quick search, so possibly more).
The date in the AWM caption shows March 1945, in which NR152 seems to have been flown the most. So far I've had no luck matching serial numbers with aircraft ID letters. The "HD" code and black/yellow strips are correct for 466 sqn RAAF.


----------



## Airframes (Jan 6, 2011)

Good work Andy ! Now that I've seen a pic of the real nose art, it's ringing bells. haven't found anything yet, but I'll keep looking.
Bill, I know it's an expense, but probably the cheapest way to obtain the parts (if no one else has them) is to get another kit, and canibalise it. It should be around the £15 mark in the UK, and I'll see if I can find a cheaper one.


----------



## Airframes (Jan 6, 2011)

haven't found anything yet on 'your' bird Bill, but I have found an Airfix Halifax kit for £9.99, which is approx $Aus 15.50. It's at King kit, and estimated shipping to Oz is around the same cost, so total around $Aus 30.


----------



## N4521U (Jan 6, 2011)

Airframes said:


> haven't found anything yet on 'your' bird Bill, but I have found an Airfix Halifax kit for £9.99, which is approx $Aus 15.50. It's at King kit, and estimated shipping to Oz is around the same cost, so total around $Aus 30.



Looks like finding spares is not gonna happen. I appreciate all the members who have looked in and hope they follow my efforts. 

This would be great if this kit could be got and shipped. Let me know how I can pull this off!!!!!!!!! I can transfer funds thru PayPal before shipping if it's something you casn do for me! It's the least expensive of everything I have found. My lovely Annie had given me the go-ahead to get a kit to cannibalize a couple days ago.


----------



## N4521U (Jan 6, 2011)

Wildcat said:


> G'day Bill, been doing some looking for you... Some of the serials I've come up with are - MX401. MZ307. MZ294. MZ945. NR238. NR976. NR152 all MkIII's. (This was only after a quick search, so possibly more).
> The date in the AWM caption shows March 1945, in which NR152 seems to have been flown the most. So far I've had no luck matching serial numbers with aircraft ID letters. The "HD" code and black/yellow strips are correct for 466 sqn RAAF.



Thanks for your efforts Cat.... to add to the confusion, I am attaching a pdf of a list of 466 Sqn aircraft, it lists None of these numbers!!!!! I wonder if these numbers were taken from his log books??? Did he fly all his hours with 466?

HD*E is listed as sn HX266! the Kelly Gang is listed as NR169, which was turned into Waltzing Matilda and died in Oz! But Peters son has traced the Kelly Gang to going to Canada and meeting the same fate! It's a mystery because Arthur built the kit, has HD*E Hand painted, with the Gang on the nose????? I will have to make a call to Peter and see if he has his log books..... What a mystery!


----------



## N4521U (Jan 6, 2011)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcat View Post
G'day Bill, been doing some looking for you... Some of the serials I've come up with are - MX401. MZ307. MZ294. MZ945. NR238. NR976. NR152 all MkIII's. (This was only after a quick search, so possibly more).
The date in the AWM caption shows March 1945, in which NR152 seems to have been flown the most. So far I've had no luck matching serial numbers with aircraft ID letters. The "HD" code and black/yellow strips are correct for 466 sqn RAAF.
Thanks for your efforts Cat.... to add to the confusion, I am attaching a pdf of a list of 466 Sqn aircraft, it lists None of these numbers!!!!! I wonder if these numbers were taken from his log books??? Did he fly all his hours with 466?

HD*E is listed as sn HX266! the Kelly Gang is listed as NR169, which was turned into Waltzing Matilda and died in Oz! But Peters son has traced the Kelly Gang to going to Canada and meeting the same fate! It's a mystery because Arthur built the kit, has HD*E Hand painted, with the Gang on the nose????? And, no LV*917 in 466 Sqn. I will have to make a call to Peter and see if he has his log books..... What a mystery!


----------



## Airframes (Jan 6, 2011)

Bill, if you want that kit I mentioned, it would be quicker and easier to order it direct from King Kit. Just go to their web-site and follow the ordering instructions. I think they might have 'Pay Pal', and certainly accept the usual cards. You could e-mail them for an estimate for shipping or I can give them a call for you and see if he can give me an idea. Let me know what you want to do, and I can 'phone them tomorrow (Friday) if needed.


----------



## N4521U (Jan 10, 2011)

One last question, about the Airfix kit. Are they All the same? Seems to be different box art, but just different art of the same plane? I need to get a kit for bashing to restore various pieces, as I have mentioned. But it's a dilemma as to which to get. Any ideas which based on the pictures posted?


----------



## Airframes (Jan 10, 2011)

The kit parts are the same as first released in the 1960s, with only the box art and the decals being changed over the years. It was originally released in black plastic, but is now, AFAIK, produced in a more user-friendly light grey plastic.
It's just a thought, but if you get the kit, it might be worthwile building the whole thing, as 'Kelly's Gang', and also doing rudimentary repairs to the existing model.
If you need good references, then visit the web site for The Yorkshire Air Museum. You'll find a really good 'walk around', including a 360 degree view of the interior, of their Halifax MkIII composite, which is about 90% genuine, with Hastings wings and wheels. This is only the second virtually complete Halifax in the world, the other being the MkII recovered from Lake Hockligen in Norway, now on display, only partly restored, in the RAF Museum.


----------



## N4521U (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks for coming thru with all that. I've now got better direction for this repair. I've removed the rear turret, it's pretty well tattered, unless I could find bits and pieces to replace it, and the cockpit glass, and the nose glass, I will have to scavenge a complete kit.


----------



## kgambit (Jan 12, 2011)

Bill, 

You might want to take a look at this:

Halifax B.MK.III, Airfix-72 Model Plane Kit - eBay (item 350430723245 end time Jan-19-11 08:21:56 PST)

Kit is going for 8.99$ plus 11.46$ shipped to Australia.


----------



## N4521U (Jan 12, 2011)

kgambit said:


> Bill,
> 
> You might want to take a look at this:
> 
> ...



Thanks for that. Placed a bid!


----------



## N4521U (Jan 15, 2011)

Just to add some more info on this model. I Was talking with Peter today and he informed me that one of the crew painted the nose art on the real aircraft. But, he also hand painted the letters And the nose art on this kit that Arthur built. How cool is that!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One more reason to preserve the nose art and code on the kit plane. Yes? I have just purchased the Squadron clear parts for replacement of canopy and turrets. And peter has agreed to putting props on the model rather than the disks. You agree?????


----------



## Airframes (Jan 15, 2011)

Great stuff, and I agree about the props, especially if the undercart is down.


----------



## N4521U (Feb 13, 2011)

I bought a Used kit on the net, reallllllly cheap, 20.75 included shipping from the US! Seems someone years ago attempted to assemble the kit using sticky tape. The tape was still holding the parts together. Simple removal.Believe it or not the only part missing was the tail wheel, which I salvaged from the built plane, although the stubs holding it in place were broken off so I replaced them with a piece from an old sprue. 

In the photo all the silver parts are from the kit I bought and will replace broken pieces. The clear from the kit will replace windscreen and turret glass. Turret guns were all broken, so new pieces to replace them. Replacing the whole of the rear turret, glass, guns, gunner, and base. This is easy to do as I am hacking off the tail.

So, hacking off the tail section forward of the horiz stab will be replaced with the hacked off piece from the kit, just like a body shop would do. The horizontal stab broke off the plane and took part of the tail section with it, so I cannot reattach the old pieces, the hole is visible in the port side. They are pretty well beat up as well. The Elevators I am going to re-use as the paint is ok on them, had to replace pins in the ends tho. 

Ailerons were all bent up and deformed, replace. Props were ugly discolored plastic, replace with props, Peter is ok with this. One wheel is missing, will replace both with fresh painted ones. Landing gear struts are toasted on one side, will attempt to replace both sides.

It's a pleasure to do this for Peter, I think he will be happy with the results. May try and build a clear acrylic case for it as well.

I sailor on.


----------



## Airframes (Feb 13, 2011)

Good stuff Bill, and nice to know the restoration can be completed.


----------



## Lucky13 (Feb 14, 2011)

Nice going mate!


----------



## N4521U (Feb 28, 2011)

I've begun hacking away. I found the nacelle under the wing had been all broken up over the years and puddles of glue, looks and acts like the old Le Pages paper glue, had filled everything. Landing gear legs were all misshapen and out of place, as well as being broken! So having the new kit parts I have chosen to take the bottom parts off so I can install all new landing gear. Some of the old nacelle is pretty well stuck, so I'll have to do some heavy excavating to get it off. But in the end it will look brand spankin new. Bill


----------



## Airframes (Feb 28, 2011)

Got some work ahead of you Bill, but I'm sure you'll do it!


----------



## Wurger (Feb 28, 2011)

I echo the post above.


----------



## N4521U (Feb 28, 2011)

Well that worked out rather well. A bit of nipping, grinding, filing and sanding, and Bob's your uncle. So now I the KG can have new wheels and sit like it should. Next I have to do surgery on the tail. Since everything is all broken up on the socket for the horizontal stab, it's needed. This will allow me to replace the whole of the rear turret as well. Going to use the existing elevators, but the vertical stab and rudders will have to be changed.


----------



## Wurger (Feb 28, 2011)




----------



## Airframes (Feb 28, 2011)

Ah! A surgery!


----------



## N4521U (Mar 4, 2011)

I have discovered he painted red over the code letters. So I have taken them and the roundels off the sides. Painted the nacelles and gear, props, and fitted them. One wing fell off, you can see the wad of glue that held it on. The new tail section is fitted and I am painting the tail pieces. Unless I find another way I am scraping the old flat black square by square. It chips off pretty easy, but it's a pain. It's coming along tho.


----------



## Airframes (Mar 4, 2011)

Nice work Bill. Should look great when it's all done.


----------



## T Bolt (Mar 5, 2011)

I agree with Terry. nice work Bill.


----------



## Lucky13 (Mar 5, 2011)

Agree with the lads...nice work!


----------



## N4521U (Mar 7, 2011)

The surgeon has come and gone. In hindsight, I shoulda used a rivet line. But, what's did is did! I used pieces of sprue to locate the tail piece, the join is pretty close. Just a clean-up and try and match the colours and paint.


----------



## Crimea_River (Mar 7, 2011)




----------



## Airframes (Mar 7, 2011)

Nicely done Bill !


----------



## Lucky13 (Mar 7, 2011)

Good job Bill!


----------



## T Bolt (Mar 7, 2011)

Looks fine to me Bill. Good job!


----------



## N4521U (Mar 15, 2011)

*Have a question*....... does anyone know of 1/72nd RAF bomber crew figures ANYwhere?????? And a 1/72nd crew transport vehicle??? I am wanting to do some extra, dioramish. Rather than have the crew INside, would like them standing outside the aircraft if possible. Or, if inside, a typical crew transport truck outside the airplane somewhat the type Peter's dad would have been in.

So, I have been doing a few things to this as well as the GB. I have just dry-fit most of the plane together. Starting to look rather smart again. I Mr Filler filled the seam at the rear and it turned out ok. The top end of the back needs paint and camo matching. I am pleased with the so far results. Thanks for following the re-build.


----------



## Crimea_River (Mar 15, 2011)

Doing some nice work there Bill. Your friend will be pleased methinks.


----------



## T Bolt (Mar 15, 2011)

What a difference from the pictures in the first post Bill! You've done an excellent jog of saving that old model!

Airfix has a RAF figure set. The figures are made of a very soft bendable plastic that paint doesn't adhere to very good, but it sticks good enough if you aren't going to be handling them much after you paint them. I don't know if it's still in production, but I know I've seen it on eBay for around $5


----------



## N4521U (Mar 16, 2011)

T Bolt, I have seen this one from Airfix. I am trying to find something with the flight crew.

So my quest goes on. But like I said, I will go with the figures inside the plane if I must. 

I would still like to find a truck to go with it.


----------



## Vic Balshaw (Mar 16, 2011)

You're doing a great job on this bird Bill, keeping yourself out of mischief.


----------



## Tony Hill (Mar 16, 2011)

What a fantastic project!!

Congrats and I'm sure the old soldier will love it!!

One puzzle...the "Kelly Gang" plus 8 1/4 ?? Am I missing something? If not, and this is a mystery...does anyone know what teh 8 1/4 means?


----------



## N4521U (Mar 16, 2011)

Tony Hill said:


> What a fantastic project!!
> 
> Congrats and I'm sure the old soldier will love it!!
> 
> One puzzle...the "Kelly Gang" plus 8 1/4 ?? Am I missing something? If not, and this is a mystery...does anyone know what teh 8 1/4 means?



Thanks for that. It's been a fun repair. Peter has been a good friend to me for the past 6 or 7 years I've been in Australia. I've been here 10 now. 
But I don't see where the 8 1/4 is in my thread. Reply to it in quotes.


----------



## Tony Hill (Mar 16, 2011)

Sorry, should have made myself more clear 

In the Nose Art, it says Kelly Gang rides Again ! " + 8 1/4" 

Darryl


----------



## Airframes (Mar 16, 2011)

Bill, the Airfix figure set contains various poses of air and ground crew, and, if not available, is also issued under the Heller label. Revell also do a box set of similar figures, and vehicles can be converted from the Airfix range of 1/76 scale airfield or military trucks. Not quite the right scale, but close enough.


----------



## N4521U (Mar 16, 2011)

Sorry Darryl, hadn't looked that closely at the nose art. As for the 8-1/4, we would have to ask Peter's dad, or the crewman who actually painted the model, and unfortunately both are long gone. I will ask Peter if he has any idea.


----------



## N4521U (Mar 17, 2011)

OK, here's what I am finding for my mini diorama dilemma...
Airfix as above...... But looks like a pilot jumping out of the way of a red bellied black snake..... this okay cuz I might do a flat out diorama. personnel truck, fuel truck, bomb loaders.
Revell ...... but I can't find a picture of the parts themselves..... how many pilots/crew????
Fuel truck.... Hasegawa 1/72 (20mm) GMC Gasoline Tanker Truck.... wouldn't a Ford be ok?
Personnel truck..... IBG Models 1/72 Bedford QLT 3ton 4x4 Troop Truck
Tractor to tow the bomb trailers.... there is a little Fordson somewhere I've seen

So, now how about bomb trailers......... tow motor......... in 1/72nd scale? I am looking but not finding.

I painted the undersides this morning, flat black, and the masking on the tops of the wings took some of the roundels with it. I am in need of a diagram for all the marking locations.....

I have seen pictures of the cockpit in green.... and the bomb aimers station is black as well as the turrets interiors. Yes????

All help is appreciated.
Bill


----------



## Airframes (Mar 17, 2011)

Both the Airfix and Revell figures sets have approximately 25 to 30 figures, IIRC, including ground personnel, all in varying poses. In the Airfix set, there are normally two of each pose.
For the fuel truck, use the Airfix RAF re-fuelling set, which has two vehicles - the larger, AEC 'Matador' bowser would be used for the Halifax.
There is company that provides other vehicles, including bomb trollies and a 'David Brown' tractor, but I need to find their name. Alternatively, both the tractor and about three or four bomb trollies are included in the Airfix Short Stirling kit.
In the re-fuelling set mentioned above, the second vehicle can easily be converted to a truck from the bowser.


----------



## N4521U (Mar 17, 2011)

The Stirling kit is probably out, $30+ and shipping for the kit, and I don't think I would ever build the plane. 
The Airfix stuff, crew and refueling kit I will look at getting. Peter is helping with the purchasing.

I went out and got the paint for the camo, Humbrol 75 and matt 29 were the perfect match. Thank gott I didn't have to blend to match. So I have touched up some holes. Painted the ailerons and the horiz stab both sides. Just have to paint the scabbed on tail section. She's beginning to look real again.

Anyone know of a plastic display case big enough for this babby????? 400mm x 400mm, or 15" x 15" +/-?


----------



## Tony Hill (Mar 18, 2011)

Cheers anyway...

A mystery then. I did think "bomb-load" as the rider is carrying a bomb.... but the Hallifax is only listed at 13,000lbs.....strange coincidence though that a Lancaster officially had a max load of 18,500lbs which is almost exactly 8 1/4 tons!! 

I wonder whether there mightn't have been a common saying along the lines of "we gave them the whole 9 yards".. but "the whole 8 1/4 tons"...... and the saying or idea was the basis for the subscript on the Nose Art...I hope Peter knows!

Probably no new info for you but see here:

Halifax "Waltzing Matilda" [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums


Darryl


----------



## N4521U (Mar 18, 2011)

Seems to be some conjecture as to the ID of this ship, serial number to code. I will confirm this tomorrow over our 9 holes of golf in the morning. 

I have one press release that states NR169 was HD*T in service, named the Kelly Gang Rides Again, but in fact the KGRA was HD*E for Easy. I also have a list of planes flown in all sorties of 466 Sqn, and NR169 is listed, but the serial number on this model is LV917, which I cannot find in this list at all. In fact I have found LV917 and it flew with 158 Sqn and flew with more than 35 skippers. 

And this came up as well. LV 917 was one of a batch of Halifax III built by Rootes at Speke (Liverpool). She went to 158 Sqn on 7/3/44 and flew one mission as NP-T, 72 as NP-H and 25 as NP-C.

It differs about the "whole nine yards". One is the fact that an Ancient Scottish Kilt consisted of one piece of wool fabric 9 yards long. I used to wear one at faires in the States years ago. The most authentic folding of one that I have seen in movies is the one Mad Max Gibson wore in Braveheart, believe it or not!!!!! There are other stories.


----------



## N4521U (Mar 18, 2011)

Just took this on my "bench". With all painting of the exterior done. Some of the replaced parts as well. Just have to polish to the fuselage and apply decals. Then cockpit and nose station painting. Peter liked the idea of a little diorama, pilots and crew, a bowser and truck. So I will pursue this with the dio.

But I still need something with proper locations of roundels and code letters... Somebody?????


----------



## Airframes (Mar 18, 2011)

I'll dig out a representative profile and post sometime on Saturday afternoon, UK time.


----------



## N4521U (Mar 18, 2011)

Airframes said:


> I'll dig out a representative profile and post sometime on Saturday afternoon, UK time.


 
You beeeeuty........ I have some but nothing I can count on being correct. Thanks mate.


----------



## Wurger (Mar 19, 2011)

I have had a look at the Osprey book Halifax Squadrons of WW2. I found ther a profile of Halifax HD_E and a shot of HD_T.
According to the caption of the image with HD_T in, it was Halifax B III of the 38th Squadron. And she was bought by G.N. Wickner and flown to Australia as G-AGXA wearing a new nose-art " Waltzing Matilda ". Once in Australia the aircraft was registered by owner's Air Carriers Ltd. as VH-BDT. It was seen derelict at Mascot airport in New South Wales, in 1947.

The Halifax B III HD_E as the caption says in the profile.


----------



## Wurger (Mar 19, 2011)

As far as the Halifax of 158th Squadron is concerned..... I think there is a kind of mistake in the code of the unit. In the book mentioned above the Halifax B III Serial No. LV917 wore NP_C code leters but not the CN_P.


----------



## N4521U (Mar 19, 2011)

All three are correct. HD*E was actually NR169 serial number I believe. I am waiting for Peter to have a look at his fathers log book to verify this. 

However I have a pdf of a list of aircraft with 466 which lists HD*E as HX266, the Halifax shown in your illustration, and named "There ought to be more time for love". This same list has NR169 as the Kelly Gang, but no code letters listed.

But then HX266 in the list of 466 Sqn ops shows this may have been it's last op, 15/08/1944 B Eindhoven Airfield HX266, LV837, LV936, LV949, LV955, LW172, MZ296, MZ299, MZ306, MZ307, MZ308, MZ341, MZ342, MZ370.

The first op of NR169 could have been here, 25/10/1944 B Essen LV936, LV949, LW172, MZ306, Z792, MZ877, MZ903, MZ914, MZ945, NP968, NP971, NP976, NR125, NR127, NR132, NR149, NR152, NR169

So the code HD*E could have been re-assigned to the Gang. It's last op seems to be this one, 25/04/1945 B Wangerooge NA199, NP971, NP976, NP989, NR125, NR127, NR149, NR152, NR154, NR169, NR183, NR185, NR201, NR234, NR238, PN181, PN182, RG346.

So this may answer the dilemma. Thanks for all your input. I hadn't noticed the HX266 serial number on that plane till now.


----------



## Airframes (Mar 19, 2011)

Well, 38 Sqn RAF never flew the Halifax, and 38 Sqn RAAF flew C47s ! 
The codes 'HD' are definitely for 466 Sqn, RAAF, based at Leconfield, and then at Driffield, Yorkshire, from 3 June 1944.
Here's another representative profile. Note that the red 'square' on top of the port wing is the outline for the dinghy stowage, and was on this wing only. Codes, serials and roundels are in the standard locations.


----------



## Wurger (Mar 19, 2011)

And here my recent find in Halifax - Special issue by Bruce Robertson.


----------



## Wurger (Mar 19, 2011)

And two more shots that might make the matter clarified. The source.... Halifax at war book by Brian J. Rapier.

According to that it seems the Kelly's Gang Halifax was the HD_T one but not the HD_E.


----------



## N4521U (Mar 19, 2011)

Airframes said:


> Well, 38 Sqn RAF never flew the Halifax, and 38 Sqn RAAF flew C47s !
> The codes 'HD' are definitely for 466 Sqn, RAAF, based at Leconfield, and then at Driffield, Yorkshire, from 3 June 1944.
> Here's another representative profile. Note that the red 'square' on top of the port wing is the outline for the dinghy stowage, and was on this wing only. Codes, serials and roundels are in the standard locations.


 
That's what I have been looking for!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks for that... I'll be applying decals today!

And it's never That easy! Seems the decals are verrrrrry old. This is what happened. So I had to get a couple of wing decals from my left overs, lucky I had them. The tail flashes came from the same stash. They weren't on the model originally. Since the wing roundels took a crap on me, I'm not going to trust the codes. So I did them in Corel and will take them to work and have them cut on our plotter. It's a sign shop. Then will spray or just brush paint them. Will have to find the serial numbers, when I get thjem clarified!!!!!!!!


----------



## Crimea_River (Mar 20, 2011)

Bill, you could try spraying a clear coat on the decals and letting it dry before dipping them. Should hold them together -give it a try. You can always go back to making your own if that doesn't work.


----------



## N4521U (Mar 20, 2011)

So here's what may be the solution. In the losses of 466 Sqn, there were 5 different "D" code planes lost. There was never an "E" aircraft loss, and never an HX266. Although HX266 HD*E was never lost, I think it would have been replaced by newer aircraft, as this seemed to be common. The "E" then re-assigned, this time to the newer NR169. Where the "T" on Halibag NR169 comes from I have no idea at this time, *have only seen it in captions to photos that never show the original codes.



Crimea_River said:


> Bill, you could try spraying a clear coat on the decals and letting it dry before dipping them. Should hold them together -give it a try. You can always go back to making your own if that doesn't work.


 
You have been so much help. If I may be so bold, which clear would You be using for this? Could it be brushed on? *Would it be the Humbrol clear cote you are meaning? Bill


----------



## Crimea_River (Mar 21, 2011)

That should work. I've never tried brushing so can't comment. There are also decal sealers sold in rattle cans you can use. I have a can of Testors Decal Bonder which does the same thing.


----------



## Airframes (Mar 21, 2011)

As long as it's an acrylic varnish, then virtually any will do it. I use a clear gloss in a spray can, the current make being Vallejo, which I got from the local art shop.


----------



## Crimea_River (Mar 21, 2011)

Well, I don't know my chemicals well but I would have thought an oil based stuff would work too. Is Hiumbrol Clear Coat acrylic? The Testors Decal Bonder is a toluene based product containing alcohols and liquid petroleum products. Sounds lovely.


----------



## Airframes (Mar 21, 2011)

In most cases, yes, virtually any clear coat will work - I used to use only enamel varnishes until recently. However, with old decals, or those likely to break-up, the solvents in non-acrylic coatings _may_ cause further damage. The varnishes supplied or suggested by those companies providing clear or white plain decal sheets are acrylic based.


----------



## N4521U (Mar 21, 2011)

Based on all the Very welcome tips above, I have just brushed some Humbrol clear on the matching decal that broke up in the water. As I have replaced them with others I had in the box it is expendable. Humbrol is an enamel, as it recommends cleanup with thinners. It does have to dry for 6 hours, so tomorrow morning I will see how it goes, to see if it will slide off. 

Again, I owe much to all your help and tutoring.


----------



## Wurger (Mar 21, 2011)

Bill, I wouldn't be sure about these 6 hours. It depends on the temperature all around , how much of a thinner you added and the thickness of the dope layer. I have been using Humbrols for many years and 10 hours is not enough often. So don't rush.....


----------



## N4521U (Mar 21, 2011)

Wurger said:


> Bill, I wouldn't be sure about these 6 hours. It depends on the temperature all around , how much of a thinner you added and the thickness of the dope layer. I have been using Humbrols for many years and 10 hours is not enough often. So don't rush.....


 
I hear ya! Point well taken. Will advise on results. Bill


----------



## Wurger (Mar 21, 2011)




----------



## Airframes (Mar 21, 2011)

I agree with my Polish 'T Stoff' appreciation friend!
Even with 'quick drying' clear coats, you must allow for the substrate, that is, the paper base, coatings and inks used on the decals. Better safe than sorry - leave a minimum of 24 hours before use, preferably longer.


----------



## Wurger (Mar 22, 2011)

Also I agree with the English Gentelman above. 24h are the minimum of waiting period.


----------



## N4521U (Mar 22, 2011)

Ah well, best laid plans...... clear cote stuck to the backing paper. On another note regarding decals. See the photo of the old decal sheet, "E" for easy has a serial number of NR152? By the log of serial numbers for 466 Sqn, there was never an NR152 attached to that Sqn. It just goes on and on. 

Gotta laff tho!


----------



## Crimea_River (Mar 22, 2011)

N4521U said:


> Ah well, best laid plans...... clear cote stuck to the backing paper.



Not sure what you mean. Did you try cutting the decals out close to the edges, letting them soak like normal and see if they came off the paper?


----------



## Wildcat (Mar 23, 2011)

N4521U said:


> Ah well, best laid plans...... clear cote stuck to the backing paper. On another note regarding decals. See the photo of the old decal sheet, "E" for easy has a serial number of NR152? By the log of serial numbers for 466 Sqn, there was never an NR152 attached to that Sqn. It just goes on and on.
> 
> Gotta laff tho!



Bill, NR152 did serve with 466 sqn, see post #4 at the start of this thread.


----------



## N4521U (Mar 23, 2011)

Wildcat said:


> Bill, NR152 did serve with 466 sqn, see post #4 at the start of this thread.


 
I stand corrected........
I have Peter looking in his dads log books to see if we can come up with a serial number for the Gang.

*If I might ask. 
Where did you get the list of aircraft Arthur crewed with???


----------



## Wildcat (Mar 24, 2011)

Bill, my info comes direct from the 466 sqn Operations Record Book. These contain sorties flown, aircraft involved and the pilots in command of the aircraft. the ORB is available on the National Archives website.
National Archives of Australia


----------



## N4521U (Mar 25, 2011)

Wildcat said:


> Bill, my info comes direct from the 466 sqn Operations Record Book. These contain sorties flown, aircraft involved and the pilots in command of the aircraft. the ORB is available on the National Archives website.
> National Archives of Australia


 
Thanks for that. I will have to see what I can find.


----------



## N4521U (Mar 26, 2011)

I have had it confirmed............. the code and serial number of the Gang was *HD*E* and *NR152*. It is published in a book with bottom and front views of the plane, along with detailed art of the nose. A second verification is a painting Peter now has, it was done for his father Arthur, with the same code, and same serial number. We know for a fact this is the actual code and serial, mainly because this painting was done by the commercial artist and crewman who did the nose art on the Halifax when attached to 466 squadron, and the one on this model.. So, NR 152 it is ! I'm sure glad this search is over. 

Plus I have found another decal sheet like the one I have, that has turned to crap. I just hope this new one is in better shape. I sailor on.


----------



## Wildcat (Mar 26, 2011)

Great stuff Bill!


----------



## N4521U (Jul 8, 2011)

I am still picking at the Gang. Have masks for the code and will try and paint them this weekend. I have been remiss in working in this one because I have been looking for a fresh sheet of decals for the code and serial, but not having any luck. But I have done something to protect the ship from future damage. I've gone and made a case for the Gang. 3mm sides and a 4.5mm top piece and 20mm PVC base with a recess on the sides for the clear to rest 5mm from the bottom. This way I can put a stainless screw in the middle of each side, and the PVC won't scratch any table top. The little truck is a Bedford with canvas top and seats each side and down the middle for crew transport. This has been a bit of a hold up as well as I wanted to provide this for protection.

My wife suggested wheel chocks, who would have guessed. She does listen to what I am saying. 

I want to do a bit of a diorama on the base. Pieces of thin sheet PVC in rectangles painted and stained like concrete to form the taxiway and parking pad. I would like to put grass at the side of the concrete and have seen Woodland grass in sheets. Anybody ever worked with this stuff???


----------



## B-17engineer (Jul 8, 2011)

I've used their plaster sheets and its wonderful stuff no clue about the grass.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jul 8, 2011)

Very cool Bill!


----------



## Airframes (Jul 8, 2011)

Good plan Bill. 
One tip - the concrete base can be made from ordinary card, the type used on model kit boxes, cut to the size of the average RAF airfield concrete 'slabs', which ranged from approx 8x8 to 12 x12 feet. Glue these to a base, probably made from MDF, then paint in situ, using household 'emulsion' paint. Before the paint dries, it can be 'textured' with a stiff brush, by stippeling, and/or, pressed with a length of card or similar to give the appearance of 'boarded' concrete (where there are lines across the slabs). Any weathering can be done later.
For the grass, in this scale probably best to use 'hairy mat' grass sheets, cut and placed/glued, after the main 'concrete' area is done. These rolls of 'grass' are available in most good model shops, or, if no luck, from model railway outlets.
These in turn can be turned from a 'lawn' into what one would normally see on an airfield in Yorkshire (the main area where Halifax squadrons were based).
Have a look at some of the dioramas I did in the 'Heavy Hitters' GB, and also at part one of the diorama guide I posted some time ago, which might help.
If you need/want accurate info on what the dispersal areas were like on the airfield specific to your model, let me know, and I'll get some stuff together. ( there were different types of dispersals, depending on the airfields).
It's a lot easier for bases to use the KISS principal, and saves a lot of 'over engineering', as well as being a lot easier (with some thought beforehand) than one would imagine.


----------



## N4521U (Jul 9, 2011)

Airframes said:


> Good plan Bill.
> One tip - the concrete base can be made from ordinary card, the type used on model kit boxes, cut to the size of the average RAF airfield concrete 'slabs', which ranged from approx 8x8 to 12 x12 feet. Glue these to a base, probably made from MDF, then paint in situ, using household 'emulsion' paint. Before the paint dries, it can be 'textured' with a stiff brush, by stippeling, and/or, pressed with a length of card or similar to give the appearance of 'boarded' concrete (where there are lines across the slabs). Any weathering can be done later.
> For the grass, in this scale probably best to use 'hairy mat' grass sheets, cut and placed/glued, after the main 'concrete' area is done. These rolls of 'grass' are available in most good model shops, or, if no luck, from model railway outlets.
> These in turn can be turned from a 'lawn' into what one would normally see on an airfield in Yorkshire (the main area where Halifax squadrons were based).
> ...


 
Brilliant. Exactly what I needed to know. I will look in Hobbyco, they also have a big train section. The card stuff I will have to take a look at what you posted to understand that part. Cheers, Bill


----------



## Airframes (Jul 9, 2011)

You're welcome Bill. Just shout if you want more info. BTW, the Squadron was based at Driffield between June 1944, and September 1945, and the dispersals here were mainly the 'frying pan' type, with some 'loop' dispersals.


----------



## N4521U (Aug 25, 2011)

Well,
Peter called me yesterday, said his son, who is into his grandfathers service history, is flying in from France on Thursday, 7 days. I guess I just needed a poke in the butt to get off it and paint the code letters. I did use a mask, computer cut actually. Took a side view picture into Corel and traced it, made an EPS file and took it to work and cut it on a plotter, I work in a sign shop. I was a little hesitant to use the mask as it melted from acrylics. I used Tamiya lacquer spray cans and just dove in. I am tickled with the results. 

I may have something to show by Thursday. 

Then I can get the serial numbers on and start gluing the whole thing back together.


----------



## Wayne Little (Aug 25, 2011)

Nicely done Bill!


----------



## Crimea_River (Aug 25, 2011)

Those codes turned out great!


----------



## Airframes (Aug 25, 2011)

Nice work Bill, looking forward to the finished diorama.


----------



## N4521U (Aug 25, 2011)

Yesterday morning before leaving for work I forged ahead and painted the other side code. Last night before hitting the sack I stuck the tail feathers on, they have been ready for a while. I just didn't want to contend with them trying to mask the code letters. Really just have to assemble the turrets. Just thinking, if this is the front of the display, I may rotate it to the the other direction, cuz that's where the nose art is. The little Bedford truck adds something too!

Now I gotta do something with the concrete. and a little grass corner!


----------



## Wurger (Aug 25, 2011)

Looking very good.


----------



## N4521U (Aug 27, 2011)

Just another view. Didn't realize how close I was to finishing the plane. 
Checked my kit boxes, no gray left!!!!!!
Only thing left will be the base.
I think they will be a little surprised at the final product. I am pleased, and it's been a pleasure.


----------



## Airframes (Aug 27, 2011)

Good stuff Bill. Are you going to paint the canopy frames ?


----------



## vikingBerserker (Aug 27, 2011)

Well done!


----------



## Wurger (Aug 27, 2011)




----------



## Thorlifter (Aug 27, 2011)

Just went through this thread. Fantastic work on the rebuild Bill.


----------



## Crimea_River (Aug 27, 2011)

I agree.


----------



## N4521U (Aug 27, 2011)

Airframes said:


> Good stuff Bill. Are you going to paint the canopy frames ?



I was attempting to mask the bloody things........ Attempting!
I may look for some Ed masks, but it is something I want to do as Peters dad had them painted, by hand!

Thanks for the positive comments!


----------



## Wayne Little (Aug 28, 2011)

good stuff Bill...


----------



## T Bolt (Aug 28, 2011)

Real nice work Bill!


----------



## N4521U (Sep 14, 2011)

Update.

Peters son came in from France, where he is now living, and he was more than surprised to see the plane in it's case in the house. I got a little SMS from Peter that there was a family gathering, the plane was on display along with his fathers log book, he says it was a hit and added much to the gathering. I am pleased!


----------



## Airframes (Sep 14, 2011)

Good to hear Bill, well done.


----------



## rochie (Sep 14, 2011)

great job Bill


----------

