# Luftwaffe's whitewall tires



## GrauGeist (Jun 20, 2009)

I noticed recently, that the tail tire of the Fw190A-3 recovered in Norway a while back had a whitewall tire.

I remember reading somewhere in the past that the Luftwaffe used whitewall tires in Africa in an attempt to preserve the tires from the elements, but never really found out if that was successful or not.

I also don't recall seeing (or perhaps hadn't noticed) many whitewall tires in any period photos, either of Africa or Europe.

Anybody out there have more info on the whitewalls?

Here's a photo of Yellow 16's tail wheel showing the whitewall tire:


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 20, 2009)

I just flipped through my books, and I could not find a white wall tire on any aircraft.


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## wheelsup_cavu (Jun 20, 2009)

I did a search using GG's heading and came up with the same description he had about it being for heat purposes.
My search even brought up a model with whitewalls.
Nothing more that I thought would be useful though.

The Model:
Carousel 1 7102 - Bf 109 Diecast Model, Luftwaffe 8./JG 27, "Black 8", Werner Schroer, Libya: The Flying Mule

The description:
"White wall tires shown on several 109s were not a decoration, but an attempt to protect rubber tires from desert heat."


Wheelsup


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 20, 2009)

I'll be damed, nice find wheels.

(and it looks stylish!)


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## beaupower32 (Jun 20, 2009)

Nice, never seen that before. Great find.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 21, 2009)

Now I'm going back through all my Afrika photos trying to see if there were whitewalls, and I'll be danged if the vast majority of the photos have thier tires obscured from view! 

I did find one good one that definately shows whitewalls on the Bf109. 

I'm thinking that this might be something that folks have been overlooking in thier North Africa Luftwaffe profiles and model finishes...


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Jun 21, 2009)

Interesting question and answer GG. You've probably pissed the model builders off now.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 21, 2009)

Aaron Brooks Wolters said:


> ...You've probably pissed the model builders off now.


Oh yeah, leave it to me to eff up the system...


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Jun 21, 2009)




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## Marcogrifo (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi, here are some little findings on my books:

Tail of a FW-190A:





The same tail wheel in detail:





This is said is from a Bf109K with retractable tail wheel:





Cheers


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## GrauGeist (Jun 21, 2009)

Marcogrifo, those are great photos!

And if that indeed is a Bf109K tire, then the Luftwaffe usd them long after the Africa campaign. Interesting.

Thanks for posting those!


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## ChrisMAg2 (Jun 22, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> ...
> Anybody out there have more info on the whitewalls?
> ...


Very simple: It's an indicator that the aircraft is electrically grounded by/ via the tire(s). 
As you know, rubber is usually an insulator. In this case the tire is the "electric outlet to the ground. Otherwise a socket and wire would have to be installed into the plane to let this happen.


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 22, 2009)

White walls do that?


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## GrauGeist (Jun 23, 2009)

ChrisMAg2 said:


> Very simple: It's an indicator that the aircraft is electrically grounded by/ via the tire(s).
> As you know, rubber is usually an insulator. In this case the tire is the "electric outlet to the ground. Otherwise a socket and wire would have to be installed into the plane to let this happen.


Dude...seriously, what?

Grounding the aircraft? And once it's in the air, you run a long extension cord to it?

The aircraft has a propietary electrical system, just like your automobile. In a negative ground system, the positive portion of the circuit is insulated from the chassis to allow for circuit function, wether or not the machine is sitting on the ground or in the air. This same theory would apply to positive ground systems where the negative side of the circuit is insulated from the chassis. No matter if it's 6 volt, 12 volt, 24, 48 72 volt direct current (DC) systems...

At no point is the ground that the machine is sitting on influencing the onboard electrical circuit's function. And rubber tires do not nessecarily protect a vehicle/aircraft from lightning because the bolt will arc from the machine to earth regardless of the type, size or even color of the tires.


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## beaupower32 (Jun 24, 2009)

ChrisMAg2 said:


> Very simple: It's an indicator that the aircraft is electrically grounded by/ via the tire(s).
> As you know, rubber is usually an insulator. In this case the tire is the "electric outlet to the ground. Otherwise a socket and wire would have to be installed into the plane to let this happen.





Now that is funny. Probably the most off the wall answer I have seen for quite some time.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 24, 2009)

I think we have a new quote for Adler's collection...


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## beaupower32 (Jun 24, 2009)

Yep, I agree. Im still laughing over it.


That reminds me, I should go and plug my car into the ground.


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## Thorlifter (Jun 24, 2009)

I think ChrisMAg must have been thinking of something else.

Great find on the pics Marcogrifo


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## Junkers88A1 (Jun 24, 2009)

well..its a fact..the white wash on the rear tires are for static electricity. all german aircrafts has that on the rear tire ! 
and only the rear
so chris is not of the wall at all 
( why is your car safe when its lightning outside ? because of the tires !!! ) 

look closely and you will see it on all german aircrafts on the tailwheel. 

been working with german aircrafts for 11 years now restoring them.. He 111, Ju 88A1 and A5, Ju 52, Fw 190 and seen and studied german aircrfats for 15 years


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## Junkers88A1 (Jun 24, 2009)

and the white does not DO anything..it just indicate as ChrisMAg2 said..that its grounded.. so next time its lighning outside and we all know for a fact that the car is the safest place to be..its because of the tires..same with the A/C. its just that the germans had a "symbol" for it..that is what ChrisMag tried to tell. here is a picture of our 100% original Ju 88 tailwheel ( the tailfork has been restored but the wheel is not done anything with !! and i can get pictures of other tailwheels as well with the same white. They all had it !!

also a picture of the Ju 52 we have


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## Junkers88A1 (Jun 24, 2009)

Ju 52 in 1940..note tailwheel
and its NOT just to make them look good..it tells something..its "grounded"  and its nothing to do with africa either.


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## Junkers88A1 (Jun 24, 2009)

Fw 200 Condor with white tire..Me 109 with white tire..


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## Junkers88A1 (Jun 24, 2009)

and one more thing..its mean its "grounded" when on ground.not when up flying !!!

and the picture you found of the 109 in africa with "white " frontwheels..those are not the wheels but covers ( look closely and you can see the tires behind the "white" cover that is leant up against the tire/wheel.. most likely to protect the wheels from getting sand inside !! because if that " white" is the tire that 109 has double tires on each side and THAT i have never seen


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## Butters (Jun 24, 2009)

It is not the rubber tires that make a car a safe place to be during a thunderstorm. It is the electrically conductive structure of the car itself, ie; the steel body. Electric current follows the path of least resistance to the ground. If the car is wet, the tires are also wet and hence no longer act as insulaters. If the car is dry, the lightning will arc from a low point of the metal body into the ground. Or rather, the electrical charge from the ground will rise to meet the downstroke.

The metal structure of an a/c also protects it from most lightning strikes. The recent trend towards building a/c from non-conductive materials has led to increased concerns regarding lightning strikes.

JL


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## Junkers88A1 (Jun 24, 2009)

you are right. but its the same thing the white tire "tells" you on the german aircrafts ! and that is what Chrismag2 tried to tell and also i tried..but you are better with words ( and know more about eletricity than i do ) 
but still. that is the meaning of the white tire..it tells something and thats it 

and you are also right regarding the new material but that is something most people dont talk about..


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## Junkers88A1 (Jun 24, 2009)

maybe this can put a stop to this question regarding the wheel

thsi is a outcats from the book "german Aircraft landing gear " by Gunther Sengfelder ( he has studied and collected german landing gears for over +-40 years )

read the last section of the page i have put here. this is truly a great book ! and not one tailwheel in this book is without the whitewash ( and he covers pretty much all )..except some from the 30`s

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


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## gumbyk (Jun 24, 2009)

So, from what Junkers and Chris Mag are saying, what the white is for is to simply indicate that the tyres are electrically conductive, rather than an insualtor.

This enables the tyres to discharge the static electricity that is built up due to propeller movement, etc, to be safely discharged, without zapping some poor S.O.B on the ground who happens to touch the aircraft. Nothing to do with the aircraft's electrical system.

It's a standard thing for modern aircraft tyres from what I understand.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 24, 2009)

Ahhhhhh ok, that makes more sense to me. The White Wall is just an indicator of what kind of tire it is.

Very cool


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## Junkers88A1 (Jun 24, 2009)

wish i had opened the book at once and put the page here.. lol 
to many words to try and explain something very simple..but its 2am so i hope i am forgiven lol

and we learn something new every day !    i still keep getting amazed over things i still learn even after 15 years with german aircrfats from WW2


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## GrauGeist (Jun 24, 2009)

Junkers88A1, thanks for explaining that...it clears the mystery up!

I know that inside an automobile or aircraft, you are pretty well protected from lightning because of the "Faraday Effect", but I wasn't aware that the older aircraft of the Luftwaffe had conductive tires like modern aircraft.

And I'll apologize to ChrisMAg2, simply because I totally missed what they were trying to say and it looked completely off the wall at first.

However, regarding the Afrika whitewalls, those really don't look like covers, those have the dimensions and appearance of actual whitewalls. Hopefully we can dig a little deeper and find more information.

Junkers88A1 thanks again for sharing the information from your book, and I agree about learning something new about the aircraft all the time!


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## Butters (Jun 24, 2009)

Well, I learned something, too. It never even occurred to me that aircraft tires would be designed so as to discharge static electricity. I was having trouble following your reasoning when you said that the whitewall tires meant that the plane was grounded. I was looking for some kinda static discharge strap on the tail gear strut. You know, like you see on big rigs

Thanks

JL


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Jun 24, 2009)

So basically the tire conducts static electricity, not lighting. Am I rite? In essence keeping refuelers and bomb loader safer.


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## gumbyk (Jun 24, 2009)

Butters,
You may see that sort of strap on some aircraft. I know some of the AT-6's around here have them (at the bottom of the rear fuselage), and they seem to be quite common on Yak-52's (on the nose wheel).

I've been searching, but can't find any pics of them.


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## Junkers88A1 (Jun 24, 2009)

no problem greugeist  we are learbing something every day !! 
and this is ofcourse something that might sound a bit far out if one dont fully understand what they do ( and when people like me cant find the right words to explain what i am actually trying to say..but i got there in the end.. lol )..and yes..you are right that they keep eletrical bombs safe and refuelers.. ( german planes like the Ju 88 had electrical charged bombs..not manually like the B-17 )and its seen often on many modern birds that they have the strap ( groundwire ) but these planes dident need it as the tires did the job ! and its common on many modern aircrafts also !!

the 88 also has a cool sign telling the crew to turn oif the electrical switch that arms the bombs..one "sticker" in the cockpit..one in the entrancedoor and one on each bombrack ! and as long as that switch is of the tire will stop any electril current to arm the bombs..or zap any poor guy touching the plane if it has been charged by turning propellers and things..

here is the 88 sign..

has du ausgeschaltet..? did you turn off ?

i am not going to say 100 % that it als lead the lighning thru the tail IF the plane get hits on ground but i think it might will do so as it lead the static charges down to ground that builds up in the plane...


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## Junkers88A1 (Jun 24, 2009)

might be slightly on the side of the topic but here you can see the sign in the cockpit of the Ju 88 just above the bomb arm selector switch


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Jun 24, 2009)




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## vikingBerserker (Jun 24, 2009)

Nice!


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## GrauGeist (Jun 24, 2009)

Junkers88A1 said:


> might be slightly on the side of the topic but here you can see the sign in the cockpit of the Ju 88 just above the bomb arm selector switch


Cool!

I've seen that image before, but never knew what it was in reference too...thanks for the info photo!


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## GrauGeist (Aug 22, 2009)

Came across a great photo...and while it's not Luftwaffe, it definately has whitewall tires!

Here's a photo of "SHILAYLEE", a B-17G of the 349th BS, 100th BG and her crew.

And looky there! Custom whitewall tires! 

(they're painted on!)


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 22, 2009)

That's cool as hell!


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## GrauGeist (Aug 23, 2009)

Found yet another whitewall tire equipped aircraft...

This time it's from the 50's and again, American. The aircraft in the photo are from VC-33 aboard the USS Ticonderoga (CVA-14) and are AD-5N Skyraiders.


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## stona (Aug 24, 2009)

Aaron Brooks Wolters said:


> So basically the tire conducts static electricity, not lighting. Am I rite? In essence keeping refuelers and bomb loader safer.



Exactly so. More aircraft were substituting a tail wheel (insulating)for a tail skid (which would earth the aircraft.) 
Check this link

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1935/1935 - 1450.html

Dunlop were marketing ECTA (Electrically Conducting Tyres for Aircraft) in 1935.I imagine allied wartime aircraft would have used them, maybe not so obviously indicated as the German whitewalls!
Steve


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## Lucky13 (Aug 28, 2009)

I'll be d*mn! Who said that modelling wasn't educational? Great thread fellas! 8)


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## stona (Aug 28, 2009)

A colleague is currently researching Hawker Typhoons and was kind enough to let me know that he has found a reference to them being fitted with "Dunlop ECTA tyres" on their tail wheels. I suspected that they would have been fitted to allied aircraft, they certainly were to this one.
Steve


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## beaupower32 (Oct 8, 2009)

A few more with white wall tires. These are of Lt. Hans-Joachim Marseille's aircraft.


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## vanir (Oct 9, 2009)

Top one's an interesting photo, with the red fin there. It's a Friedrich, since it lacks the little air vents at the front cowling area of the G series, but the larger oil cooler says it's a F-4/Z which are rare but used in Africa. From what I've been able to determine this specialised variant has the old DB-601N of the E-4/N fitted with GM-1 and at the time was the fastest of any Messerschmitt. Wish I could see the fuel card to confirm but it should have C2, 100 or C3 written on it. Quite a unique and rare bird if I'm right.
Most reproduction colour plates for this a/c have the smaller oil cooler and 87 fuel card, but they would appear wrong.


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