# Spitfires in the Luftwaffe?



## Royzee617 (Mar 13, 2006)

While perusing Wikipedia's entry on the Spitfire I read that someone reckons Spitfires captured in France were taken into service by the LW. More amazing is the contention that they were used offensively over the UK.

Sounds unlikely to me but...

Read here:
A recollection of an experience from World War II in Grendon, Northamptonshire by Phil Blacklee
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Grendon


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## Gnomey (Mar 13, 2006)

Well I suspect it is inaccurate as no RAF Spitfire Squadrons were sent to France for the Battle of France (1940) as they where kept for the defence of Britain.


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 13, 2006)

There was a captured Spitfire with a DB-605...not sure of the date or what happened to it though.


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## Wildcat (Mar 13, 2006)

Now that looks wrong!


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## evangilder (Mar 14, 2006)

It is possible that it was used by Zirkus Rosarius.


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## Royzee617 (Mar 14, 2006)

Did cross my mind about the Spits to France order... good old WC! In the movie too so I wondered if it were true...


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## Royzee617 (Mar 14, 2006)

BTW has anyone posted pix of Allied planes in Axis service here?


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## Henk (Mar 14, 2006)

Some were used for special ops and for training and testing.

Henk


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## Royzee617 (Mar 14, 2006)

Like KG100....?


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## Henk (Mar 14, 2006)

I would not know wish unit it operated in. I do not look at that and I think I must start to do that. I will try to find out for you and some of my books, I think I read it in one of them just can not remember in witch one.

Henk


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## evangilder (Mar 15, 2006)

Actually, KG200 was probably the one you are thinking of. I think I posted my article about captured eagles a while back here. It was about American aircraft captured and flown by the Luftwaffe. I could have done another full article on the British airplanes captured. One of the books that is fairly accurate ( I may be a bit generous) is "Strangers in a Strange Land, Vol. I" by Han Heiri Stapfer. There are some great pictures of the captured craft in there, although some of the stories of how they were lost by the allies and captured do not jibe with the veteran accounts and official unit histories. 

Some of the bigger aircraft were used in clandestine missions and bomber scouting. Many of the fighters were tested extensively by the Luftwaffe before being turned over to Zirkus Rosarius, hich was a group that used them to train Luftwaffe pilots how to fight them. They also flew them in mock engagements to better train the pilots. Believe it or not, that was the basis for "Top Gun" and "Red Flag".


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## Twitch (Mar 15, 2006)

During the Schweinfurt missions P-47s with no markings were seen in the air noted in an article I wrote long ago-

"And most strange of all, four aircraft were positively identified as P-47s near the B-17s. They were painted a very dark brown and had no Allied white stripe markings or insignia. They were fired on since the last P-47 escorts left long ago. They were captured aircraft!"


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## Royzee617 (Mar 17, 2006)

Interesting stuff - would make a great movie! Not likely tho. I wonder what would happen to pilots of such planes if they were captured. Would they be treated like soldiers in enemy uniforms and be shot?


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## loomaluftwaffe (Mar 17, 2006)

allied planes in Axis hands? thats Finland! the Suomen Illmavoimat was composed mainly of Buffaloes, Fokker DXXIs and some M.S 406/410s, and used captured Russian aircraft too


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## R988 (Mar 17, 2006)

Finland had early Hurricanes and Blenheims as well


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## Gnomey (Mar 17, 2006)

And some Gladiators.


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## loomaluftwaffe (Mar 17, 2006)

oh yeah forgot about that
and they had this wierd other French thing


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## hartmann (Mar 17, 2006)

Finland captured some P 40 if I remember well too.


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## Royzee617 (Mar 17, 2006)

Only the Finns could have got such good results in such poor conditions with so many different obsolescent aircraft.... even the Brewster Buffaloe. Incredible story.


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## Jabberwocky (Mar 17, 2006)

I've read (in a book, no less  ) that at one point during 1944 there were 20 operational 109s and 4 operational 190s in the UK, most of which had either force landed, got lost and landed in the UK or been captured in the Mediterranean.

The French captured 3 Bf-109E3s and handed them over to the British in 1940.

The Germans captured at least 2 Spitfire Is during 1940, one of which landed in France after running dry of fuel over Dunkirk due to a flak hit. There is a very famous serise of photos claiming to be of a Spitfire attacking a Do-17 'somewhere over England'. The only problem is that its a captured Spitfire and the original roundels have been repainted in completely the wrong place.  

I know that the Italians recovered at least one airworthy Spitfire Vc after it force landed in Sicily during a straffing run and they pieced it back together and made it airworthy with bits of other Spitfires.


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## Henk (Mar 18, 2006)

Yes, many people see that in the same way. It was a captured Spitfire.

Henk


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## paaln (Apr 29, 2006)

cheddar cheese said:


> There was a captured Spitfire with a DB-605...not sure of the date or what happened to it though.



That was mk.Vb EN830. A Free French with 131. sqn had to make a forced landing on Jersey in 1942. Went to Rechlin, then to a DB site near Echterdingen. Got bombed in April -44.

There was another Spitfire tested with a DB601.

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/spitfire.php


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## helmitsmit (Apr 30, 2006)

Interesting that it was better then the 109 with the same engine! It looks ugly doesn't it?


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## Grampa (Apr 30, 2006)

cheddar cheese said:


> There was a captured Spitfire with a DB-605...not sure of the date or what happened to it though.



Hey I remember that picture that i saw once in a long time. As I remember there was a captured Spitfire by the Luftwaffe. the interesteed thing about this plane is that the some germans pilots was curious about what kind of performance this plane would do whit an Daimler Benz-engine, and so they mounted a DB-engine for fun. What they then found out is that the Spitfire got a increased performance. They found the difference especially in high altitude and turning in negative g-force than compare whit the old Rolls Royce Merline-engine. Maybe is because the RRM-engine got a carburetor and the DB-engine have a more advance fuelinjection that does the difference in performance. I whounder what it would be whit the history of the spitfire if the Britt somehove got a licensed to build the DB-engine and mounted on all the spit. instead of the RRM-engine


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## helmitsmit (May 2, 2006)

yeah but there nothing like a merlined spitfire.


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## Wildcat (May 3, 2006)

Here I have proof that the Luftwaffe flew Spits!!!


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## helmitsmit (May 4, 2006)

Good picture


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## Hot Space (May 4, 2006)

Also a Hurricane MkI was fitted with a DB 601 engine and it was found to have a much greater climb rate, top speed etc.....


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## R988 (May 4, 2006)

Didn't the Russians actually use some captured 109s against the germans as well?

I actually made a scale model of a 109G10 captured by the brits in the med, mainly because I broke the german transfers and had some british ones going spare! Copied more or less the one on this page, though I haven't found the right letters yet.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~tozu/me109/foreign/109-UK.htm


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## helmitsmit (May 4, 2006)

Any chance of see the performance figures of the DB Hurricane?

I also heard that there was a merlined 109 any info?


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## Hot Space (May 4, 2006)

I'll look around to see what I can find m8


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## Hot Space (May 4, 2006)

This is the only thing I can find at the moment 

http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/hurricane.php


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## helmitsmit (May 11, 2006)

That is cool thanks


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## R988 (May 12, 2006)

I was wrong it was captured Fw190s the Russians used apparently.


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## Tiger (May 13, 2006)

> Spitfire Vb serial EN830 / NX-X fell into German hands late in 1942. It crash landed on November 18th 1942 while being flown by P/O (Sous Lt.) Bernard Scheidhauer of the Free French Air Force, attached to 131 "County of Kent" Sqn. RAF. He and his No.1, P/O Henri de Bordas, had been on a "rhubarb" to Normandy during the afternoon. EN830 was hit by light flak and made a forced landing in a turnip field at Dielament Manor, Trinity, Jersey.
> 
> Sous Lt Scheidhauer was taken prisoner by the Germans and, like his aircraft, was transported to Germany. On March 24th, 1944 he and 80 other RAF officers escaped from Stalag Luft 3. He was captured along with his escape partner Sq. Ldr. Roger Bushell in Saarbrucken. The were both shot for their part in the "Great Escape" on 28th March 1944. His aircraft was captured virtually intact, and in good enough condition to be flown in November 1943, with black crosses in place of RAF roundels, to Rechlin for testing.
> 
> ...








Daimler-Benz Spitfire EN830





Side view of the captured Spitfire V under evaluation with the DB 601 engine





Quarter-rear view of the Daimler-Benz powered Spitfire serial EN830

Source: http://www.unrealaircraft.com


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## mfg (May 14, 2006)

Gnomey said:


> Well I suspect it is inaccurate as no RAF Spitfire Squadrons were sent to France for the Battle of France (1940) as they where kept for the defence of Britain.



But some were there in 1939.

The Photographic Development Unit (PDU) was formed in September 1939 and was based at RAF Hendon under the command of Sqn Ldr (acting Wing Commander) Sidney Cotton.
The unit was initially equipped with modified Bristol Blenheim aircraft, although they lacked the performance to carry out the demanding sorties required by the reconnaissance role. The PDU was lent two Spitfires in November 1939 and quickly modified them for reconnaissance use, by stripping out armour and armament, and fitting extra fuel tanks. The Spitfires were pressed into immediate service and German installations were imaged from 30,000ft.
These sorties led to detachments being sent to France, under the cover name of Special Survey Flights. The Flights carried out valuable work in the period leading up to the German Blitzkreig attack on France and the Low Countries.


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## Tiger (May 14, 2006)

I found a colour shot of a Luftwaffe Spitfire,






Also a P-38 if its of any interest,


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## plan_D (May 14, 2006)

> The Photographic Development Unit (PDU) was formed in September 1939 and was based at RAF Hendon under the command of Sqn Ldr (acting Wing Commander) Sidney Cotton.
> The unit was initially equipped with modified Bristol Blenheim aircraft, although they lacked the performance to carry out the demanding sorties required by the reconnaissance role. The PDU was lent two Spitfires in November 1939 and quickly modified them for reconnaissance use, by stripping out armour and armament, and fitting extra fuel tanks. The Spitfires were pressed into immediate service and German installations were imaged from 30,000ft.
> These sorties led to detachments being sent to France, under the cover name of Special Survey Flights. The Flights carried out valuable work in the period leading up to the German Blitzkreig attack on France and the Low Countries.



The first mission for the PR Spitfires was on 18 November, 1939. Taking off from a base at Séclin, France, the sortie photographed Aachen from 33,000 feet. It was performed by Spitfire PR.MK. IA serial #N3071.


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## helmitsmit (May 15, 2006)

good stuff


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## Yelavi931 (Dec 21, 2007)

While on the subject, I saw an article in a modelling mag recently, which showed what the aircraft would have looked like if it had survived long enough to be transfered to Israel.

More details in the New Year.

Merry Christmas!


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## merlin (Dec 21, 2007)

Ref the Hurricane with a DB engine.

Yugoslavia, was one of the first foreign customers for the Hurricane - which also included a manufacturing license. At the request of the RYAF, a Hurricane airframe was experimentally fitted with a DB 601A engine for comparison purposes with the Merlin. The conversion was made in an Air Force hangar at Zemun, the new engine bearers, cowlings and cooling system being made by the ikarus factory. The DB Hurricane flew in early '41, and was generally considered by the Yugoslav test pilots to be superior to the Merlin-powered standard aircraft.
Unfortunately, Wm Green didn't supply any performance figures!
nevertheless, it shows that it wasn't just the Germans who were doing the conversions.


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## 'Lil'tyger (Dec 21, 2007)

I don't think it's likely but hay maybe they had some8)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 22, 2007)

'Lil'tyger said:


> I don't think it's likely but hay maybe they had some8)



You dont think it was likely? There were several Spitfires that were captured and put into use by the Luftwaffe. We have posted pics of them here before.


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## Heinz (Dec 22, 2007)

I've seen the DB powered Spitfire before and it looks so different but oddly fits in a weird way. 

I wonder how much work it took to mount the DB onto the Spits framing.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 22, 2007)

Here are a few pics of different Spits in Luftwaffe colors.


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## renrich (Dec 26, 2007)

The BF 109s used in making the film "Battle of Britain" were from the Spanish AF and I believe had been reengined with RR Merlin engines. The Avia "something" manufactured in Czechoslovakia(I can't spell that but you get the idea) for the Israeli AF had Jumo engines I believe.


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## Denniss (Dec 26, 2007)

Spanish 109 with Merlin engines were Bouchons, there was an earlier version with Hispano-Suiza engines as well.

The Avia S-199 had Jumo 211 bomber engines. AFAIK those were 211F with 1340PS or 211J with 1410PS. These aircraft were even more tricky to fly than the S-99 AKA 109 G-10 with DB 605 engines.


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## Seawitch (Dec 27, 2007)

The Luftwaffe very nearly had the latest Hurricane of the day before the Royal Air Force did, the Hurricane type that would be escaper Lt. Franz von Werra very nearly escaped in was yet to be supplied!


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## Redfoot (Feb 15, 2008)

Hi.

The Spit squadrons were not based in France. However in mid-May many were patrolling the Channel covering the retreat of Allied naval/evacuation forces from the French ports. As a result a number of Spits were shot down over France and captured. A have a number of books that show Spitfire Mk is being examined by Luftwaffe personel in 1940. One picture in the "Spitfire vs Bf 109" Battle of Britain book has a captured Mk I, IA X4260, of No. 603 squadron parked next of a Bf 109E of JG 77. This spitfire was shot down on 16 May 1940 south of Calais. Its pilot Plt Off. Bill Caister as taken as POW. The aircraft was later tested by Fritz Wendel (Messerschmitts chief test pilot).


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## A4K (Feb 15, 2008)

I've got pictures and info at home collected from all different sources of allied aircraft in German hands, and can tell you that they had atleast two airworthy Spitfire Mk.I's, atleast four Mk.Vb's (including ace Robert Stanford Tuck's aircraft with 12 kills, hit by ground fire during a sweep over the french beaches), and a PR.XI, among others.
Will check out my pics etc this weekend and get the serials and codes of those that I know of to yas next week.


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## antoni (Feb 16, 2008)

Spitfires were flown by the following German units

DB Daimler-Benz AG, Testcentre for aero-engines at airfield Echterdingen (near Boblingen, South of Stuttgart). 

DLV Deutsche Luft- und Versuchsanstalt at Oberpfaffenhofen SW of Munich,, a German Aero and Experimental Establishment; Comparison tests with Spitfires and German aircraft. 

E.Stelle Erprobungsstelle Rechlin, a Military test centre, but also proving centre for new developments of the German Luftwaffe, based near Mtiritz-See; Comparison tests with Spitfires and German aircraft; the first flying reports for Spitfires dated from January 1941 (test flight LtBorris, JG.26). 

FW Focke-Wulf Flugzeugbau GmbH at Bremen, measurements of Spitfire Mk.IX, study 14th April 1944. 

Me Messerschmitt AG, ex Bayerische Flugzeugwerke AG (Bt), at Augsburg (Munich/Stuttgart); Repair of Spitfires; Comparison and measurements on Spitfires. 

Kl Harms Klemm Flugzeugbau at Boblingen, Stuttgart South; Co-op with Messerschmitt and Daimler-Benz. 

2/0KL "Zirkus Rosarius", 2nd Staffel [No.2 Sqn] of the Versuchsverband (Transport) OKL, a test and comparison unit of the HQ German Luftwaffe, formed at Oranienburg and based at Gottingen, used captured aircraft; Unit-code 'T9+ '. To leam more about Spitfires, especially handling and flying characteristics, the "Cirkus Rosarius" visited operational units, where they were flown by unit leaders and experienced pilots from 1943; The inventory listed two Spitfires 20th March 1944, and three Spitfires (Mk.V IX) in mid 1944; Later two Spitfire PR.XI ('TE+BB' 'TE+EK') were seen with this unit in 1944, the first being held by the staff and the second by No.2 Sqn of Versuchsverband OKL. 

5/JG.2 "Gruppe Bernay", 5th Staffel [No.5 Sqn] of the 2nd Jagd-Geschwader [No.2 Fighter Wing] in France, also called Jagdlehrer- Uberpriifimgs-Staffel, a Fighter Leader Training Unit and Flight Instructor Checking Group; Tests and training also with Spitfires and other captured aircraft. Reported Spitfires at Orleans-Bricy and Le Bourget, dett Bernay and Villacoublay in France. For example, a Spitfire Mk.Ia marked '5+2', was used for comparison flying tests against Bf 109 and FW I90s in October 1942. Another Spitfire was here in April 1943, marked '3+9'.

DLV and E-Stelle used the Spitfires for comparison tests with German fighter planes. Spitfires were also tested by German aircraft producers, especially by the Messerschmitt Company and by Daimler-Benz Aero engines. The Czechoslovakian VLU Air Research Institute at Prague-Letnany, then controlled by the Germans, also used Spitfires for trials in 1944/45. 
Captured Spitfires also featured in Nazi propaganda films. One, which was marked "G-X" and based at Kolberg (FJugzeugftihrerschule FFS6 (C), a Flying School in Eastern Germany, on the south coast of the Baltic Sea, now Polish Kolobrzeg, was shown being supposedly attacked by Bf 109 or FW 190 fighters, in October 1940. Despite claims to the contrary, these were not genuine combat films. In a later film, for instance, an obsolete Spitfire Mk.Ia is depicted being supposedly attacked by a much later Ta 152. 
A special unit of the German North Africa troops, the "SAS Brandenburger", ferried out a captured Spitfire to Africa. There it gave air cover for troops which were crossing the Tchad, French NW Africa. 
In July 1942 the Krakow Main Market Square saw the opening of a German exhibition of captured weapons. One of them was a Spitfire with the 'LY'-marking of the No.1 PRU, probably a PR variant, serial number unknown (believed to be K9791.) In France existed a "Beutepark Luftwaffe No5' (Booty Collection No.5 of the Lw) at Paris-Nanterre, which had a Spitfire Mk.I at one time. 

Most of the force-landed Spitfires were dismantled for spare parts for the few flyable planes. In early 1944 the Luftwaffe inventory listed four flyable Spitfires: Mks. I, V, IX and XII. By September 1944 only three of these were in use. Additionally two non-flyable Spitfires were held in storage by the 1st Staffel/OKL (No.1 Sqn of the test unit OKL) on 20 March 1944. 


F.OI Spitfire F.Ia (Merlin Ill); French FOl ("FW-B"); Orleans-Bricy, captured by Germans 18.6.40; To the 
German Test-centre Rechlin (near Miiritz-See) in 1940; Fate unknown 


K9867 Spitfire F.Ia (Merlin II); TOC/RAF 18.2.39; No.74 Sqn ('ZP-J'); Force-landed Calais-Marck after air combat 23.5.40 (S/Ldr FL White safe); Aircraft captured by German troops 26.5.40; To an air depot of the Luftwaffe; Fate unknown 

N3277 Spitfire F.Ia (Merlin III); Became (Lw) No.52; TOC/RAF 16.1.40; No.234 Sqn ('AZ-H', named "Dirty Dick");Damaged by Bfl09 off Swanage, Dorset UK, force-landed near Cherbourg 15.8.40 (P/O R Hardy RCAF, PoW); Repaired, and to the German Testcentre at Rechlin (marked '5+2') fi'om 12.41 to 9.42; Test flown 5.6.42 (PIt HW Lerche); "Group Bernay" in France (No.5 Sqn of No.2 (F)Wing [5/JG.2]) in 1942/43; No.26 (F) Wing [JG.26] at Orleans-Bricy, flown 29.3.43 (Ofw Martin); Fate unknown 

P7379 Spitfire F.IIa (Merlin XII); TOC/RAF 10.9.40; No.19 Sqn ('QV-U'); Shot down late evening by Bfl09 on sweep, force-landed wheels-up near Calais in France 27.6.41 (P/O Andrews, PoW); To an air depot of the Luftwaffe; Fate unknown 

P7443 Spitfire F.IIa (Merlin XII); TOC/RAF 1.10.40; No.54.Sqn ('KL-E'); Circus 5, shot down by the first Group of No.2 (F)Wing [I/JG.2], force-landed near Calais 26.2.41 (Sgt H Squire, PoW); SOC/RAF 28.2.41 (98:05 flying hours); To E-Stelle Rechlin; Messerschmitt factory Augsburg from 21.4.41, was to be fitted with a DB601 engine, but this was cancelled; Flown at Echterdingen (near Boblingen, south of Stuttgart,); Retd to Testcentre Rechlin 9.9.42; Fate unknown 

P9317 Spitfire F.Ia (Merlin Ill); TOC/RAF 10.2.40; No.222 Sqn ('ZD-A'); Air combat with Bf 109s and Bf 110s, force landed at Le Touquet airfield in France, which was held by Germans 1.6.40 (P/O HEL Falkust, PoW); To an air depot of the Luftwaffe; Possibly flown as "G-X" in a propaganda film, based Kolberg, Eastern Germany; Fate unknown 

P9331 Spitfire PR. A (MerlinIII); Became Lw.No.21; TOC/RAF 29.2.40; No.212 Sqn, glycol leak, force-landed near Reims 7.6.40; Repaired and to German Lw; Testcentre Rechlin ('2+ I ') in 6.40; Fate unknown 

W3824 Spitfire F.Vb (Merlin 45); Presentation aircraft 'HOLT II'; TOC/RAF 29.8.41; No.129 Sqn ('DV-F') 11.9.41, missing 27.9.41 (Sgt V Ross, PoW); SOC/RAF 28.9.41; Noted in a German air depot (almost intact); Fate unknown 

X4260 Spitfire F.Ia (Merlin HI); Became Lw.No.45; TOC/RAF 23.8.40; No.603 Sqn ('XT-D'); Air combat with first Group of No.54 (F)Wing [I/JG.54] over Pas de Calais, force-landed Guines near Calais 6.9.40 (P/O JR Caister, PoW); SOC/RAF 2.11.40 (9:55 flying hours); To German Lw; With No.2 Sqn of No. 54 (F)Wing [2/JG.54] in 11.40; Messerschmitt factory Augsburg ('4+5'), test flown 20.11.40 (PIt Fritz Wendel); Fate unknown 

X4385 Spitfire PR.C (Merlin 45); TOC/RAF 14.9.40; No.l PRU ('LY-B'); Force landed, undercarriage collapsed at Deelen airfield, Netherlands 22.9.41; Repaired; Testcentre Rechlin 1941/42; Fate unknown 

AA835 Spitfire F Vb (Merlin 45); TOC/RAF 10.10.41; No.350 Sqn ('MN-E', marked "Stella Maris"); Circus 195 to Hazebrouck marshalling yards, force-landed in German occupied territory 29.6.42 (P/O R de Wever, PoW); To an air depot of the Luftwaffe, Fate unknown 



AA837 Spitfire F.Vb (Merlin 45); TOC/RAF 26.9.41; No.501 Sqn (SD-E), force landed on the foreshore near St.L6 after air combat with Bf 109s on 4.11.41 (P/O EH Shore PoW); Mostly intact to a Luftwaffe air depot; Fate unknown 

AB131 Spitfire PR.IV/D (Merlin 45); TOC/RAF 7.12.41; No.1401 (Met) Flight, force-landed near St.Trond, Belgium 12.4.42 (SOC/RAF 13.4.42; 49.55 flying hours); To an air depot of the Luftwaffe, later to a German Lw Flying School; Fate unknown 

AB824 Spitfire F.Vb (Merlin 45); TOC/RAF 30.8.41; No.303 Sqn ('RF-S'), Circus 119, force-landed near St.Omer, France 4.4.42 (F/Lt Z Kurstrzynski, PoW); To an air depot of the Luftwaffe; Fate unknown 

AD130 Spitfire F.Vb (Merlin 45); TOC/RAF 31.8.41; No.316 Sqn ('SZ-E'), Circus 122 to Hazebrouck marshalling yards, air combat over St.Omer, shot down by JG.26, force-landed 12.4.42 (F/O BK Buchwald); SOCIRAF 30.4.42; 188:50 flying hours); Almost intact to the Luftwaffe; Fate unknown 

AR380 Spitfire F.Vb (Merlin 45); TOC/RAF 17.3.42; No.350 Sqn ('MN-Z'), Dieppe raid, force-landed in France 19.8.42 (P/O HE Marchal rescued); To an air depot of the Luftwaffe; Fate unknown 

BL733 Spitfire F.Vb (Merlin 45); TOC/RAF 10.2.42; No.306.Sqn ('UZ-D'), forced landed on French Channel coast 30.7.42 (P/O Roman Pentz PoW); Mostly intact to an air depot of the Luftwaffe; Fate unknown 

EN626 Spitfire LF.XIIc (Griffon IIl); TOC/RAF 19.4.43; No.91 Sqn ('DL-E'), Rhubarb, hit by flak near Gremonville, force-landed near Rouen, France 6.11.43 (W/O RAB Blumer RAAF killed); To an air depot of the Luftwaffe; Fate unknown 

EN685 Spitfire PR.X1 (Merlin 61); No.542 Sqn; FTR Hannover, force-landed 13.5.44; To the Luftwaffe; Repaired, and to "Zirkus Rosarius" (2nd/OKL), marked 'T9+EK'; Flown by Lt KH Messer (First Group of No.53 (F) Wing [I/JG.53]) from Hannover-Wunstorf to Hustedt (NE of Hannover) 31.7.44; Demonstration at Dortmund, Monchengladbach, Bonninghardt, Bonn, Stadte and Husum from 2.8. to 11.8.44; Flown 21.8.44; Demonstrated by pilots of No.26 (F)Wing [JG.26] at Reinsehlen (near Schneverdingen, c.40m E of Bremen) in 11.44; Fate unknown


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## antoni (Feb 16, 2008)

Cont.

EN830 Spitfire F.Vb (Merlin 45); Presentation aircraft 'CHISLEHURST AND SIDCUP'; TOC/RAF 1.5.42; No.131 Sqn, missing near Ouistreham, force-landed on Jersey after air combat 18.11.42 (P/O BWM Scheidhauer, PoW, murdered); To Messerschmitt factory Augsburg and to Echterdingen (near Boblingen, South of Stuttgart) in 12.42 (test flown by Capt Willy Ellenrieder, DaimlerBenz); Armament radio removed, 24-volt electrical system and DB605A engine installed; To E-Stelle Rechlin, marked 'CJ+ZY'; Comparison trials with Bf 109G in 1943; Later DB601 A engine installed; Technical failure 27.4.44; Destroyed on ground at Echterdingen by an USAAF bombing raid on 14.8.44; Wreck to Klemm company at Boblingen, scrapped there 
NOTE: P/O Scheidhauer took part in the Great Escape, but was recaptured at Saarbrucken, and shot dead by the Gestapo on 29 March 1944, along with 50 others who took part 


EP200 Spitfire F.Vb/trop (Merlin 46); TOC/RAF 30.5.42; Arr Malta 8.42; No.185 Sqn ('GL-T'), hit by flak, forced to land, belly-landed near Comiso, Italy 27.8.42 (Pia Woodser PoW); Aircraft almost intact to the German Luftwaffe; Fate unknown 

MK698 Spitfire LF.1Xc (Merlin 66); TOC/RAF 5.4.44; No.412 Sqn, dive bombing, damaged by Bf 109s south of Wesel, force-landed near Wachtendonk (Krefeld) 5.12.44 (P/O CWH Glithevo, PoW); With "Zirkus Rosarius" (2nd/OKL) 12.44; Based Hannover- Wunstorf in 1.45; Fate unknown 

PL...? Spitfire PR.XI (Merlin 70); RAF unit unknown; Force landed and to Luftwaffe 1944; "Zirkus Rosarius" (2nd/OKL), marked 'T9+BB'; Shown HannoverWunstorf in 1944; Fate unknown 
Possibilities: PL834 (No.16 Sqn), FTR Arnhem 20.9.44; PL904 (No.541 Sqn) FTR Bremen 28.9.44; PL906 (No.542 Sqn) FTR Munich 27.11.44; PL916 (No.683 Sqn) FTR Stuttgart 8.10.44; PL919 (No.541 Sqn) FTR Frankfurt 24.12.44; PL925 (No.400 Sqn) FTR Ruhr 28.10.44.


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## antoni (Feb 16, 2008)

Perhaps the first Spitfire to be captured?


French Spitfire I 

In September 1938 two French Air Force pilots were allowed to fly the Mk I after France expressed official interest in purchasing the type and a manufacturing licence. Slow deliveries to the RAF and the deteriorating situation in Europe meant that the Air Ministry was reluctant to give up any of it Spitfires, but it eventually agreed to supply three examples to the French Air Force. This was later reduced to one example, and the 251st production aircraft was completed as 01 for the French Air Force and was supplied with a spare Merlin Ill. It made its maiden flight on May 25, 1939, going to France on July 18. It was the only Spitfire ever built directly for an export customer, all other deliveries being ex-RAF aircraft modified for foreign service. However, the soul French Spitfire I had a short career. When the German forces invaded France it was a Orleans and was to have been burnt to stop it falling into enemy hands. That it was not is supported by photographic evidence of the aircraft, minus propeller and cowling believed to have been taken in late 1940 or early 1941.


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## antoni (Feb 16, 2008)

Captured Spitfire V at Kolberg Flying School. Under the fuselage, forward of the tailwhell, is a smoke making mechanism. 

The same aircraft in flight, after being repainted for use in a German propaganda film, where it was shown being supposedly attacked by Bf 109 or Fw 190 fighters.


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## antoni (Feb 16, 2008)

Spitfire PR type B P9331 in hanger at Reims/Champagne aerodrome in early June 1940.On the afternoon of the 7th June F/Lt ‘Tug’ Wilson was forced to land there during an abortive mission to photograph the railway line at Maastricht-Liege. This was the first PR Spitfire captured by the Germans.


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## antoni (Feb 16, 2008)

K9791 failed to return from a sortie over the Ruhr on 17 August 1940. The captured Spitfire was displayed with other Allied equipment at the ‘Der Sieg im Westen’ (‘Victory in the West’) exhibition in Vienna towards the end of 1940. In July 1942 the Germans open an exhibition of captured Allied equipment in occupied Cracow. Among other aircraft a light-coloured single-tone airframe with ‘LY’ codes believed to be K9791 again.


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## antoni (Feb 16, 2008)

Spitfire PR type C (believed to have been converted to type F) X4385 was lost on 22 September 1941 during a mission to Hamburg. Engine failure forced the pilot to land at Deelen in occupied Holland where these photos were taken. Apparently, the pilot made a normal wheels-down landing but the port leg collapsed during taxiing.


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## antoni (Feb 16, 2008)

Spitfire PR type F X4712 was shot down by Fw Nickel of I./JG1, flying a Bf 109. The pilot, F/O JHL Blount force landed on the island of Texel and was taken prisoner. Contradicting accounts say either the pilot or the Germans set the Spitfire on fire. It may well have started by itself from the overheated engine.


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## antoni (Feb 16, 2008)

The identity of Spitfire PR.XI captured by the Germans is still a mystery. The colour photograph was apparently taken at Sagan-Kupper airfield (now Zagen-Kopernia in Poland), an advanced training base in July 1944. The unit code was typically applied in small white letters. The aircraft code seems to be gloss black. The codes merge with the camouflage but seem to be ‘EB’ rather than ‘BB’ or ‘EK’, as usually captioned. Although certainly not ‘EK’ they could be ‘BB’ assuming that each letter was applied in a different style. Authors mention two PR.IXs serving with the Zirkus Rosarius: T9+BB and T9+EK. Known photos show that the EK was applied on top of an over painted earlier code so both could be the same machine. According to “Spitfire International”, T9+EK was EN685 lost in May 1944. Although a fairly early machine, the Spitfire may have been retro-fitted with a pointed rudder. On the other hand this type of rudder had been fitted to MK XII fighters since 1943 and could be a replacement item while in captivity especially as some German documents caption this particular Spitfire as a Mk XII.


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## Njaco (Feb 16, 2008)

Great pics, Ant! Especially the color one.


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## B-17engineer (Feb 16, 2008)

Nice color one .................But then a Spitfire just looks wrong in German markings


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## Rob1224 (Feb 16, 2008)

> BTW has anyone posted pix of Allied planes in Axis service here?



well p51-d's were captured and used by the germans...but got no pix


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## Evil_Merlin (Feb 16, 2008)

Rob1224 said:


> well p51-d's were captured and used by the germans...but got no pix



Never seen one either. Seen quite a few P-51A's and B/C's in Luftwaffe colours though. 

Meteor Products has a great decal line up for the Zircus Rosarius. THey have a few P-51's, P-47s, a spitty, Tiffy, Mossie in the ZR's colors.


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## Thorlifter (Feb 17, 2008)

Nice pic Antoni. Good post.


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## antoni (Feb 17, 2008)

Rob1224 said:


> well p51-d's were captured and used by the germans...but got no pix



Not a lot to lot to see.


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## B-17engineer (Feb 17, 2008)

There was a dogfight episode on the Tuskegee airmen and some captured P-51 attacked them at first they thought they were american


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## A4K (Feb 18, 2008)

German Spitfires (that I know of):

Spitfire Mk.I Bogus British markings ’G-X’ .Airworthy and used in propoganda photographs, with Badly positioned and proportioned roundels
Spitfire Mk.Ia ?-?? RAF camouflage with large Balkenkreuz (crosses) –Airworthy
Spitfire Mk.Ia RAF camo with overpainted codes and badly positioned and proportioned roundels applied, Airworthy and used in the famous ’Spitfire seen up close from an He111’ propoganda photos. 
Spitfie Mk.Ia ’5+?’ Bogus British markings, including badly positioned and proportioned roundels and fin-flashes. Airworthy and flown by Bf 109 pilots.
Spitfire Mk.V AZ-N ??277 ’Duty Dick’, ex 234 sqn. Emergency landed near Cherbourg. Retained RAF camo and serial, but codes lightly overpainted and large Balkenkreuz applied. Spit Mk.I metal prop. Airworthy
Spitfire Mk.V ?-?? EN830 ’CJ+ZY’ fitted with DB605A engine for comparitive flight testing
Spitfire MK.Vb SD-E AA837, ex 501 sqn. RAF camo, codes , serials, and A1 style roundels. Airworthy
Spitfire Mk.Vb RS-T . Robert Stanford-Tuck’s personal aircraft, 29 kills. Brought down by ground fire during low level sweeps over the French beaches. RAF camo, A1 style roundels, wooden Jablo prop. Wrecked but repairable
Spitfire Mk.Vb AZ-B, ex 234 sqn. A1 roundels, Spit Mk.I metal prop. WBR
Spitfire Mk.Vb UZ-A AB364, ex 306 sqn. A1 style roundels.WBR
Spitfire PR.XI ’T9+ZB’ large Balkenkreuz applied, Airworthy
Spitfire PR.XI ’T9+EK’ large Balkenkreuz applied, Airworthy

Sources:

LuftArchiv.de - Das Archiv der Deutschen Luftwaffe –Beuteflugzeuge (captured aircraft);
Spifire in Action, Squadron signal No.39;
Die grossen Lutfschlacten des Zweiten Welt Kriegs –Kaiser Verlag;
Plus two other books – photocopied info, but didn’t record book titles.

From one of them:
„By the beginning of the Battle of Britain the Germans had captured four Spitfires in flying or repairable condition”

... While according to ’Flugzeug Typen Der Welt’ (Bechtermünz Verlag):
„The first Spitfires to be operated outside of the United Kingdom were Mk.V’s, which were shipped on board the HMS Eagle to Malta on March 7th 1942”

Squadron Signal’s ’Spitfire in Action’ also mentions „tropicalized Spitfire Vb’s sent to Malta...7 squadrons in the Mediterranean by June 1942”.


Research on the net will no doubt give more info, I don't have time at the moment to check.

Evan


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## Njaco (Feb 18, 2008)

Try this thread....

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aircraft-pictures/captured-aircraft-odd-photos-999.html

Antoni - as for.....


> AB824 Spitfire F.Vb (Merlin 45); TOC/RAF 30.8.41; No.303 Sqn ('RF-S'), Circus 119, force-landed near St.Omer, France 4.4.42 (F/Lt Z Kurstrzynski, PoW); To an air depot of the Luftwaffe; Fate unknown.


Here's the story (_from "In Enemy Hands" by Bryan Philpott, courtesy of ccheese_)

" On April 4, 1942, still at Northolt, but now under the command of S/L Kolaczkowski, RAF No. 303 Sqdrn was ordered to join forces with 316 and 317 squadrons, to form the escort for 12 Bostons detailed to attack St. Omer. Using the call sign 'Boiler', 12 Spitfires took off from Northolt at 09:40 hours and rendezvoused east of Chatham at 10:03 hours before heading for France where they patrolled th coast at 21,000 feet. Light flak was seen over Boulogne and the fighters soon detected their charges flying at 17,000 feet and turned north of Hardelot to cover them over the target.
....The Bostons seperated into 2 boxes of 6 - one section turning sharply to port and descending while the second section made a shalloer turn and held their height for a few minutes longer. A glint of sun onmetal warned 303 that other aircraft were above them and they turned to face 2 sections of Bf 109s and Fw 190s, placing themselves between the enmy fighters and the Bostons. Meanwhile 8 more Fw 190s were seen approaching from the direction of Boulogne and 316 turned to meet the new threat which by now had formed into 4 sectons of 2 and attacked the Spitfires in line astern.
....F/O Horbalzewski of 'A' Flight in _AD940 _tusseled with an Fw 190 and sent it spinning down out of control then left the flight to escort a damaged Boston to the Kent coast, F/S Popek, his 'A' Flight colleague in _AD116 _having already accounted for the Fw 190 which had attacked the bomber.
....Two 303 Squadron pilots were heard to make distress calls, but in the melee their individual call numbers were not heard, although one was reported to be landing his damaged aircraft in France. On return to Northolt, F/L Daszewski 'B' Flight Commander (Boiler 15) in _AD455 _and F/L Kustrzynski (Boiler 51) in _AB824 _were missing. So names could be put against the 2 men who had made the radio transmissions during the combat. F/L Kustrzynski was the Ops Room Controller and he was the pilot who landed his damaged Spitfire in France where it was recovered by the Luftwaffe."

and some pics of other captured spits.


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## antoni (Feb 19, 2008)

The Polish Wing lost 3 pilots during Circus 119. Kustrzyński PoW, Daszewski was killed as well as 316 Sqn's F/O Jan Muszel. The pilot of AD940 was Horbaczewski not Horbalzewski.

Kustrzyński's Spitfire being recovered by the Germans.


Polish fighter pilots in 1943 while PoWs. L-R back row. Bronisław Mickiewicz (315 sqn, Władyslaw Szczęśniewski (315 Sqn), Zbigniew Gutowski (302 Sqn), Stefan Kołodyński (303 Sqn), Zbigniew Kustrzyński (303 Sqn), Witold Łokuciewski (303), Eugeniusz Nowakiewicz (302 Sqn), Wacław Wilczewski (316 Sqn), Stefan Janus, Lech Xiężopolski (542 RAF), Stanisław Pietraszkiewicz (315 Sqn), Roman Pentz (306 Sqn), Emil Landsman (306 Sqn), Czeslaw Daszuta (306 Sqn). Front row. L-R. Bernard Buchwald (316 Sqn), Stanisław Król (74 RAF), Jerzy Zbierzchowski (308 Sqn), Stefan Maciejewski (308 sqn).


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## Njaco (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks, Antoni for correcting the spelling. And that pic of the recovery of RF S seems to be very popular. I see it everywhere.


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## karas (Jun 9, 2008)

It was great to see that photo of my godfather Stefan Maciejweski (Crofton) as a POW in 1943. He had the misfortune to be a "double caterpillar", shot down twice into the English Channel ... once in a Hurricane and later in a Spit. He passed away about 15 years ago here in Sydney, Australia.

thanx


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## kool kitty89 (Jun 10, 2008)

See also:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aircraft-pictures/captured-aircraft-odd-photos-999.html

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/ai...reign-aircraft-japanese-markings-10759-3.html

Caged Eagles: Captured Allied Aircraft Markings


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## Njaco (Jun 10, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, Karas!

Twice in the Drink! Amazing!


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## kool kitty89 (Jun 10, 2008)

On the P-51:

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/captured-p-51-combat-7256.html


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## HRM OKeefe (Jun 11, 2008)

"Get Me a Squadron of Spitfires"

Always wondered how Galland got away with that remark shown in the movie "Battle oF Britain", mentioned in his book, audio online google Galland 1912-1996 or link here; 
> http://members.aol.com/geobat66/galland/quotes.htm<

Went to the 85 (?) CAF airshow in Harlingen in Mitsubisi's corporate MU -2(thanks to Bruce W!!) I went to get adult beverages for all the passengers and found myself looking at Gen Galland sitting by himself, I asked him if he would like a beer "Ya!" I took the opp to ask him what Goring said to him _after_ he made that remark, he replied "*He never spoke to me for the rest of the war" !!!*Recently a neighbor of Luft. ace Franz Stigler confirmed my memory and added Goring sicked the Gestapo on Galland until Hitler heard about it and called them off!


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## Njaco (Jun 11, 2008)

O'keefe, fantastic story! I too, always wondered what Goering said or did after that remark. Thankx.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Jun 17, 2008)

The things you won't always find in a history book. thanks!

wish I could meet an ace or veteran.


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## rgb814 (Aug 8, 2008)

I saw the picture of the Polish Wing. My wife knew Bronislaw Mickiewicz when he lived in the Bahamas. I knew Bronic's wife Dora. Does anyone know what part Bronic had in The Great Escape?

Randy


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## Njaco (Aug 8, 2008)

Haven't found anything regarding the escape but check this site...

315 Sqn Pilot List


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## rgb814 (Aug 9, 2008)

Bronislaw Mickiewicz was a POW at Stalag 3 the second time he was shot down. He was there at the time of the Great Escape.


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## antoni (Aug 9, 2008)

Have not seen any comment on Mickiewicz being involved in the Great Escape but then they tend to mention the ones that were shot. Try contacting this museum, 

Serwis Muzeum

they may be able to tell you if he was one of them. 
Mickiewicz was shot down on 29th August 1941 in a major battle (Circus 88 ) with the Luftwaffe. S/Ldr Jerzy Słoński-Ostoja (306 Squadron) was killed and Mickiewicz became a PoW. He was flying Spitfire Mk IIa P7606 PK*O, a very old machine delivered to Northolt after repair to damage received in an RAF unit. This explains the de Havilland propeller as all Mk IIa were fitted with Rotol propellers at the factory. First photograph shows P7606 before it was given its unit codes. The second in a German scrap yard in France


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## maverick61 (Aug 18, 2008)

as for spits didnt luftwaffe aces test fly spits before the Battle of Britain. werner molders tested one.
and others too. some were shot down in france.crash landed. and in vichy held france' when france fell.well one or others.it was also used in a well a film involving a spitfire and me 109 dogfighting but sqn' codes were wrong.on the spit ON THE SIDE WAS X code. susposed to be in BOB. ACTIONS.
the spit was shot down well a fire was seen from a heinkel bomber.
a propaganda film.for german news Reels.
I have a photo.of them in color.
TEZ


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## paulmcdonough (Jun 5, 2010)

Just joined - was doing some quick research for my son's project and found this picture posted by Antoni. Bronislaw Mickiewicz was my uncle by marriage and I have all his memorabilia (incl logbook). Don't have any experience on these forums so hope you get the message, thanks for the picture.


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## Njaco (Jun 5, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Paul. If you would like to share those things on here, they would be very well recieved and appreciated!


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## antoni (Jun 6, 2010)

paulmcdonough said:


> Just joined - was doing some quick research for my son's project and found this picture posted by Antoni. Bronislaw Mickiewicz was my uncle by marriage and I have all his memorabilia (incl logbook). Don't have any experience on these forums so hope you get the message, thanks for the picture.



You will find a photograph of Mickiewicz as a PoW on the previous page. 

There are other photographs of P7606 after it was shot down. Please check your personal messages.


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## c1951 (Jan 29, 2017)

I am not good with German but the archives has a shot of "G _ X" taken from a Dornier
Bundesarchiv - Picture database: Simple search[view]=detail&search[focus]=8


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## Glider (Jan 29, 2017)

A4K said:


> German Spitfires (that I know of):
> 
> Spitfire Mk.I Bogus British markings ’G-X’ .Airworthy and used in propoganda photographs, with Badly positioned and proportioned roundels
> Spitfire Mk.Ia ?-?? RAF camouflage with large Balkenkreuz (crosses) –Airworthy
> ...


I don't have any details but the Germans did capture intact one of the first PR Spits during the fall of France. It was at a French airfield so they could see the importance of PR something the French had little experience of and was even more valuble as it had a full set of cameras on board.
The RAF had asked the french to destroy it but they didn't.

Reactions: Informative Informative:
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