# anyone know what this is ?



## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

Guys/Gals :

any of you fine folk know what this little piece of Luftwaffe on-board equipment is ? 8) Used by twin engine crews for both night and day missions............... I will say no more for the time being.

E `


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

here is the opposite side of "my little device"

once you folk guess I will explain in terms from a very good friend who is a Nachtjagd ace...


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## plan_D (Jan 11, 2005)

There's a compass on it, but I'm sure that's not all it is.


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## evangilder (Jan 11, 2005)

Looks like a navigation "computer". (basically a circular slide rule) The US Navy had a similar device to calculate their way home based on their current heading and the heading of their carrier. I don't remember the name of it off the top of my head though.


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

tell me the name and you win the cookie. Yes it is a navigational computer, but what was it called ? in any case this gives me a bit of time to look for my friends e-mails so I can print them off here.......you guys are quick !  

Horrido !

E ♪


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## evangilder (Jan 11, 2005)

The English, or German name for it?


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## evangilder (Jan 11, 2005)

English, either a dead reckoning computer or an air navigation plotter


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

whats the Deutsch though ? not that hard....and the unit has a letter and numeral designation


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## evangilder (Jan 11, 2005)

Oh MAN! Now it gets difficult. I don't know German equipment that well...


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

the device's name begins with K


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## plan_D (Jan 11, 2005)

Knickebein?


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## evangilder (Jan 11, 2005)

Dreiecksrechner DR-2? Used for ground speed computations, drift calculations, endurance, flight time calculations and to help establish bearings with radio signals.

Okay, I did look it up. AT least, that's what I THINK it is!


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## Anonymous (Jan 11, 2005)

this is getting fun actually.....

the first two letters are correct Kn

Peter says this :

" the word computer I heard after the war. as far as I remember we had no computers-Rechenmaschinen in our NJ a/c for determine RAF routes. Our problem was always to find these routings when Zahme Sau. A good indication was when a good night fighter was in the stream and shooting down and of course when the bordfünker found the maximum of the falling down of windows, this was the telltale. At this time the ground-organization ws mostly confused and of no help. " 

keep trying


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

that was weird, able to post without signing on ? ok

the other name and I am not looking for this is : "Kreisrechner"

E ~


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

Give me another 10 minutes and if no-one guess I will spill the beans........and include more from Peter.. now to find the other mails..


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

ok EvanG is about the closest. Yes it is a DR 2 computer of sorts....

called by the crews a Knemeyer, a Kreisrechner, named after a German navigator before the war. "We used this for computing (rechnene) of groundspeed and true airspeed and wind direction and velocity. I still have one in use and irritated the American captains I was flying with as co-pilot on DC 3 in 1955." 

the unit in question is multi used. 3 different rounded slides with a special slide made of acetate-yellow

About 6 incehes across.

made by: Dennert and Pape in Hamburg/Altona, April 1941
Gerät Nr. 127-107 B
Anforderz. Fl 23825

Baumuster: Plath DR2

on the opposite-white side is marked with Temperature in degrees and bove km in height

a very interesting small piece of necessary equipment for the Bördfunker


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## plan_D (Jan 11, 2005)

Nice, and great information.


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## evangilder (Jan 11, 2005)

Wow, even a nickname. Well, I certainly don't have enough knowledge on German equipment to have guess that one!  Good one though. Did we all learn something from that one? I know I did!


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

sehr Gut ! well if anyone else has other "goodies" from the Ww 2 aircrat please chime in. will have to look now for some other cool stuff ..........hey what's that laying in the corner ?


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

well it's German WW 2 but it is Heer recon.

here is a pic of the contents


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

I cannot display all of this as I do not have a digital camera but here is some"junk" from "my" SturmFw of II.Sturm/JG 4 smashed into the Erzgebirge on 11. September 1944 in a huge air battle. will try and get a snap of the heavy rusted Panzerplatten armor on the fuselage. I have a 12x 18 inches angled mass that weighs a good 25 pounds even with two of the bolt holes for attachment.

part of the gear cam in the BMW engine


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## Medvedya (Jan 11, 2005)

Are the pouch contents something to do with working out the trig angle for artillery rounds?


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 11, 2005)

Hmmm, I thought it was an ADF...


(I have no idea how to use that thing in Fs, and it annoys the crap out of me to use the bloody GPS on the Dc-3 or Vega, I WANT REALISM!  )


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## evangilder (Jan 11, 2005)

Nice stuff, Erich! Here is a couple of items from my WWII stuff.


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## Medvedya (Jan 11, 2005)

GermansRGeniuses said:


> Hmmm, I thought it was an ADF...
> 
> 
> (I have no idea how to use that thing in Fs, and it annoys the crap out of me to use the bloody GPS on the Dc-3 or Vega, I WANT REALISM!  )



I read somewhere that there are printer friendly maps for FS which you can then laminate and draw on. Can't think where they are, but I'm sure they exist.


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 11, 2005)

evangilder said:


> Nice stuff, Erich! Here is a couple of items from my WWII stuff.




Heeeeeeey, I have that 20mm shell and .50 cal bullet!


Don't know if I know where they are, though...


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## plan_D (Jan 11, 2005)

I have nothing from World War 2  what I would do to get the casing from a Tiger 88 shell..


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

cool gusy keep em coming. Yeah I have some spent stell cases from the 2cmM rounds that blew up with that SturmFw. will hunt down and give you particualrs over the enxt days.

the map case does have some unique items in it and yes I would suppose it was for dtermining distanaces for artillery as well as the plotters for useage on the maps. A very dear freind in the US Army was forward observer when he and his squad jumped an Heer reecon motorcyclist. wouldn;t you know the German went down the wrong road occupied by US forces, he was promptly relieved of his canteen/mess kit, that Ost front medal(shown with the case) and all the contents which from what I understand were pretty important. this was during the US Armies drive through the Bayern and the maps in the scan show the US army(maps) of the Tergensee and other areas. Even the pencils are original !

ok more stuff coming slowly over time...

E


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## evangilder (Jan 11, 2005)

I see large shells at antique stores occasionally. Don't think I have seen that particular one here though.


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

well I am here for another 3 minutes so here is another pic of the map contents.

on the morrw gents !


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## evangilder (Jan 11, 2005)

You have some great stuff!


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

thanks bud !  

ok gents I leave you with this item if anyone knows what it is. Of course the backdrop is genuine white German lace ......


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## Erich (Jan 11, 2005)

I'll post the major item that it is associated with later tonight after meetings.....

Gruß


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 11, 2005)

Erich said:


> thanks bud !
> 
> ok gents I leave you with this item if anyone knows what it is. Of course the backdrop is genuine white German lace ......




Might it be a flag mast?


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## plan_D (Jan 11, 2005)

The picture title gave it away, that's some good reading there GrG.


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

yes a flag pole top it is and it has a special name that I will have to hunt down. this itme is what it was a part of. Captured intact along with several bayonets and Luger pistols out of a burning warehouse-barn in central Germany in the spring of 1945 by my uncle and two other buddies. the item shown with top ferrule was hoisted down; actually cut down while the barn roof was on fire.....


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

ok something else for you a/c afficiendo's // this is actually part of the SturmFw that I own in a museum in the Czech republic. My freidns found old M round casings, glass, armor plate a full on BMW engine in shreds, part of the wooden prop, and twisted wreckage everywhere, including 1 quite bent up 3cm Mk 108 cannon


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## evangilder (Jan 12, 2005)

That is in amazingly good shape, Erich! War trophies like that are usually in much poorer shape, especialy now. You have taken very good care of that. I am curious though, I have not seen the swastika with the "gear" border on the white part. Is there some signifigance to the gear?


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

good point Evang !

Mulhausen Thur 29 is a district (district flag) the gear representing the NSDAP DAF or Deutsche Arbeitfront - German Labour front/force


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

anyone a collector of WW2 firearms ?

heres my cyq P-38, has a nice holster and extra clip


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## evangilder (Jan 12, 2005)

Ah, okay, that makes sense now. It caught me eye right away because it really stands out since the colors haven't faded and it's so bright. I was actually familiar with the district flag, but I don;t know the districts. Neat stuff in the museum as well. Were you doing aviation archeology?


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

and a very rare piece, a WW 1 Beholla German aviators pistol at 7.65mm

the thing shoots great. Several old small hand helds were used by the Luftwaffe during the war. this neat item came with a clip and matching leather holster


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

my aviation archeology interest is one of my top 5 WW 2 loves. I have teams in France, Holland, Denmark and of course Germany. Primarily checking on German night fighter wrecks. My cousins Fw 190A-9 is still buried in a field in central Germany and I have friends there scouring out where it might be located. When my cosuin was killed and smashed into the wheat fields south of Hannover, it wasn't till 1946 that he and the a/c were found by the field owners son. His remains were then interred not more than 3-4 miles away from the crash site


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 12, 2005)

Erich said:


> ok something else for you a/c afficiendo's // this is actually part of the SturmFw that I own in a museum in the Czech republic. My freidns found old M round casings, glass, armor plate a full on BMW engine in shreds, part of the wooden prop, and twisted wreckage everywhere, including 1 quite bent up 3cm Mk 108 cannon




Wait...


You _own_ an A-9? 


*WOW.*


Even if it is in pieces, they're in good shape and that's really cool, unfortunate about your cousin though.


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

parts of a B-17 and parts of an SturmFw 190A-8/R2 flown by KIA pilot Siegfried Züber, and hopeful parts of my cousins Fw 190A-9 this year....


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 12, 2005)

*DAMN.*


A great collection you've got there!


Two questions...


What type of pieces do the collections for the B-17 and A-8 encompass?


Also, the R2 is the armored tail-slicing Sturmbocke, right?


Sturmbocke - Assaultsomething, right? (Still bin lernen Deutsch, Ich sprechen nicht so gut - the pronunciation and grammar is ok, but the vocabulary for useful things (I know quite a bit of military things, or used to) is very limited...


For example, I don't know "know" in German...


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

GrG

Sturmjäger=Sturmböck

storm fighter=storming ram

the armored version some 500 pounds plus on the A-8 variant. Usually has all the armor on the fuselage, on the canopy sides, around the engine and cowling, under the wing edges and sometimes belley. armor around the cannon chutes and ammo boxes of the 2cm and 3cm wing weapons. the R2 was sometimes fitted with 13mm cowling mg's but sometimes not.

the usual wing set up was two 2cm cannon inboard and two 3cm cannon outboard.

Ok I have part of the metal from the wings and armored glass from the B-17 including details on the crewmen in part.

the heavy Fw 190 quite a bit more. three 2cm Minen rounds, excluding the explosive round itself. the metal-dark casings blown. several different parts of the internal frame work of the Fw 190 including one aluminum piece slightly twisted with the RLM number etched in. Armored glass, a complete or fairly so written text on the pilot and the whole bloody ugly mission that he was involved in. and last but not least for now, one 12 x 18 inch stell armor plate from the left rear section of the fuselage armor protecing the pilot. although rusted a bit it has the shape and two bolt holes where the armor was fitted onto the fusleage. must weigh some 25 pounds. ...... will try and get a scan of this heavy piece quite rare. this sounds a bit stupid but from what I gather this piece alone is worth about 500.00 dollars US, possibly much more. Engine parts and other hardware enroute ........


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

heres the funky looking Mk 108 cannon that was dug up at the crash site


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

this is another display at that Czech museum I am researching and helping with. the evil raid over Chemnitz in the spring of 1945. At least 5 lancs were shot down by German ngiht fighters over what is now the Czech republic


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## evangilder (Jan 12, 2005)

Hey Erich, I see that you are involved with the archeology side of things, which is really cool. Do you know of any organizations in Germany that are restoring and flying WWII airplanes? I ask because, as you know, I am a member of the CAF and Adler was looking for a similar organization over on Germany, preferrably near Ansbach. I am going to ask some of the guys at the museum this weekend, but figured you might know about some groups as well.
Thanks!


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

Evan yes there are several in Germany run by all age groups. The best bet in Germany is too check with the local airfield and see if there are any glider chaps or small aircraft followers. I mean by this, modellers or experimental a/c developers and flyers. also the Deutschland IMPMS may have contacts as well as local governmental agencies throughout the country.

what I have seen on the usual is very small bands of parties on a dig, as this is becoming somewhat popular but yet making sure that on the digs the proper authorities have been contacted as well as represntatives of the German Volksbund/WAsT (burial committee's) have been contacted. This may also involve the police and any environmental groups, but this latter depends on where the archaeology is being carried out. My friends in the czech republic have been doing this for quite sometime and they are in quite a mountainous areas and are not overall restricted by agencies on their frei hunts for information and bringing history to light.

I will have to look and see what offcial sources I have filed away but I know at least with governmental groups they should be listed on the net, though contact and whether or not they reply to an inquiry may take weeks, months or even years depending when the inquiry is applied and if it sits on someones desk or goes through the typcial shuffle.

Erich here is part of a Ju 88G-6 or what's left of it, scattered over Denmark in the backwoods


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

back to the small arms. here is a box and it's contents. original WW 2 German 9mm ammo. a scarce commodity


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

and here is what is inside ! warning this is not play stuff and should not be used at the firing range due to the age of the ammo


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## evangilder (Jan 12, 2005)

Thats' kinda scary. Old ammo can get a little unstable after awhile. Handle taht one carefully.


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

actually I have a couple of boxes. the rounds are still encased in a wax substance so they are fine. Nice dry cool temp they are stored in too and away from everything, including the grand-daughters.

thankx for asking


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## lesofprimus (Jan 12, 2005)

Take it from me, that is one very dangerous box of ammo u have there erich.. 

PLEASE BE VERY CAUTIOUS WITH IT......


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

have had it for years Les. It was all checked out through a very good friend and gunsmith.

anyone know what type of Mauser this is ?  the header will probably give it away


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## lesofprimus (Jan 12, 2005)

Ok erich, just remember that things go boom for no reason.... I lost a buddy to a similar incident in Bosnia...


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

yes that is true

next pic with the markings on the receiver


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## evangilder (Jan 12, 2005)

Cool Mauser!


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

A Fallshirmjäger G 33/40

here's a pic of it and it's little buddies. I also own an (ar 42) K98 that I am having to get re-worked as some clown tried to sporterize the stock


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## plan_D (Jan 12, 2005)

You've got a K98? You know it's only right for me to hate you now.


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

and a bayonet or two as well ! here ya go


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2005)

another shot although a bit crappy. U guys can see that the stock has been altered // maybe not.........but it is idiotic

the rifle shoots like a dream


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## HealzDevo (Jan 13, 2005)

It looks like a compass with a section which is slid around to mark the map heading that the plane should be going in so that any variations in course can instantly and accurately be fixed. I would be guessing that a navigator would use that piece of equipment for various calculations that needed to be made aboard the aircraft for navigational and course purposes. I see after having written this that I have at least guessed part of the purpose of this item.


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 22, 2005)

Anyone know what the rusted can is for?



Here's a hint, it's NOT oil!


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## evangilder (Jan 22, 2005)

Engine containers.


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 22, 2005)

Yep, Wasp Junior to be exact!

That's Spirit of 76 I was rambling about in another thread, by the way...


Any idea as to what the white cone might be?


Here's a hint:it's part of a fighter.


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## evangilder (Jan 22, 2005)

Not sure on that one. I knew the engine containers because we have them at the museum. Sealed properly, the engine will hold up well.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 23, 2005)

is that cone part of a plane's tail??


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 23, 2005)

Nope, can you guess the jet it connects to?


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 23, 2005)

Looks like part of a T-2 Buckeye.


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## HealzDevo (Jan 22, 2007)

Never heard of the T-2 Buckeye. Mustn't have really made that much of a mark in terms of being remembered generally...


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 22, 2007)

HealzDevo said:


> Never heard of the T-2 Buckeye. Mustn't have really made that much of a mark in terms of being remembered generally...


You need to do some homework... 

"Virtually every US Naval aviator from the late 1950's until 2004 received training in the T-2 Buckeye, a career spanning four decades."

There were almost 300 built....

_*Don't give me a T-2 Buckeye, so ugly it makes aviators cry,
Flying it is no chore, but Christ what an eyesore,
Don't give me a T-2 Buckeye*_


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 22, 2007)

Actually I looked at the whole picture - it apperas to be an F-89


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 22, 2007)

It is an F-89


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## pbfoot (Jan 22, 2007)

I'm impressed it had me thinking


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 22, 2007)




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## Henk (Jan 22, 2007)

Erich the German flag you posted earlier what was it use, or what did it simbolize?


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## HealzDevo (Jan 23, 2007)

Interesting aircraft it looks like the nose of a Mohawk II on the body of a Republic F-86 Thunderbolt...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 24, 2007)

I need to revive the WW2 militaria thread and post some more of my 3rd Reich uniforms and militaria.


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## Henk (Jan 27, 2007)

Please do Adler.


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