# What tanks had a 3 men turret?



## Vincenzo (Apr 26, 2012)

What tanks, WWII tanks not prototypes&experimentals, had a 3 men turret?

i found at moment (corrections and add are welcome)
Japanese medium tank Type 1 3
Soviets T-50, T-34-85, KV, IS,
Americans M3, M4, M24, M26
British Valentine III&V, Matilda II, Churchill, all the cruisers except the Crusader with 6 pdr gun
Hungarian Turan
Germans Pz III, IV, V, VI


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## tomo pauk (Apr 26, 2012)

Czech produced tank, named by the Germans Pz-38(t)
Tiger II


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## Vincenzo (Apr 26, 2012)

I've read somewhere that Pz 38 had a 2 man turret. with Pz VI i want mean both the models


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## tomo pauk (Apr 26, 2012)

Okay, on both accounts; the Pz-38(t) have had the 2-men turret indeed


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## Shortround6 (Apr 26, 2012)

According to some accounts on the PZ-38(t) the fourth crewman may have ridden in the hull but helped man the turret in action? Stood on tank floor and acted as loader or stayed in hull and passed ammo to one of the turret men? 

The French Somau 35 with it's three man crew may have been similar, one man turret but radio operator in the Hull "assisted" the comander/gunner by passing ammo?


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## tomo pauk (Apr 26, 2012)

The turret was a rather cramped one, even with 2 members in it. The ammo containers were located within combat compartment, and the hull gunner still had its MG to serve, so any help to pass the ammo to the one of the two turret men is highly unlikely.


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## davebender (Apr 26, 2012)

Panzerkampfwagen T-34(r) Soviet T-34 in German Service


> Captured T-34/76 tanks were modified to German standards by installation of commander’s cupola


Germany put a commander's cupola on every tank turret large enough to have one. Even the late war 12 ton Panzer II Ausf L had one.


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## tomo pauk (Apr 26, 2012)

Would you please elaborate on connection of that statement with the topic here?


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## Shortround6 (Apr 26, 2012)

tomo pauk said:


> The turret was a rather cramped one, even with 2 members in it. The ammo containers were located within combat compartment, and the hull gunner still had its MG to serve, so any help to pass the ammo to the one of the two turret men is highly unlikely.



Depends what the tank is doing, firing at at other tanks at 500 yds the bow machine gun is useless, if fact firing at infantry at 500 yds the bow machine gun is much less useful than the turret gun.


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## davebender (Apr 27, 2012)

3 man turret normally contains:
- Commander.
- Gunner.
- Loader.

No autoloaders during WWII. So a 2 man turret contains:
- Gunner. 
- Loader.
Without a dedicated vehicle commander the gunner is also vehicle commander. An arrangement that doesn't work well.


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## Vincenzo (Apr 27, 2012)

sometime the 2 men are a commander and a gunner/loader


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## davebender (Apr 27, 2012)

That arrangement is even worse.


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## fastmongrel (Apr 27, 2012)

In a 2 man turret the commander is the loader. It is utterly impossible for the gunner to be the commander, the gunner can at best see just a few degrees either side of the main armament using a vision scope or vision block. In a 3 man turret the loader is the 2nd in command no matter what his rank.


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## davebender (Apr 27, 2012)

According to Otto Carius Soviet T-34s typically buttoned up early on and made a bee line for the objective. No commanders cupola on most T-34/76 so the loader cannot see a thing outside the turret. The gunner can at least see a little bit.


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## Juha (Apr 27, 2012)

davebender said:


> According to Otto Carius Soviet T-34s typically buttoned up early on and made a bee line for the objective. No commanders cupola on most T-34/76 so the loader cannot see a thing outside the turret. The gunner can at least see a little bit.



IIRC T-34/76s had two rotarable periscopes for the turret crew, so the commander/loader did see out when the tank was buttoned up. Of course German type cupola would have been better.

Juha


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## Freebird (Apr 27, 2012)

Vincenzo said:


> What tanks, WWII tanks not prototypes&experimentals, had a 3 men turret?



Canadian RAM Grizzly


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## Vincenzo (Apr 27, 2012)

true freebird, same is for the Sentinel (i 've all included in british cruisers)


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