# Aviation time travel



## comiso90 (Jan 10, 2007)

You have three post-war aircraft total with unlimited maintenance support for any two week period between 1938 - 1945. Your mission is to make the most dramatic impact on the war for any chosen nation. Please exclude strategic heavy bombers and nukes. 

Three B-52s with anti-shipping missiles and nukes is too easy!

A-10s, Longbow Apaches over Kursk or North Africa---- POLAND?

1 AC 130 and 2 F-86s over Bastogne for Germany (after the weather cleared)

Even two sea furies and an AWACS would have been interesting on Dec 7 1941 over Pearl Harbor for the Yanks.

Harriers, Tornados or Jaguars during the Battle of Britain?


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Jan 16, 2007)

Hmm. 
3 A10 Thunderbolts with TOW missiles going against German armor in Operation Barbarossa. 
3 F-22 Raptors covering the U.S.S. Yorktown in battle of Midway. ( not a big dramatic impact, but hey, I like the Yorktown). 
Lastly, 3 Apache or Cobra attack helicopters taking out Japanese Troops invading Wake Island.


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## HealzDevo (Jan 21, 2007)

3 Apache Longbows, 3 AC-130s and 3 CH-53 Super Stallions.
The Apaches for taking out Armour and limited air-support. The AC-130s for taking out bunkers and troop concentrations. The CH-53 Super Stallions for bringing in troops to drop at strategic points on Iwo Jima.


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## comiso90 (Jan 22, 2007)

Vassili Zaitzev said:


> Hmm.
> 3 A10 Thunderbolts with TOW missiles going against German armor in Operation Barbarossa.
> 3 F-22 Raptors covering the U.S.S. Yorktown in battle of Midway. ( not a big dramatic impact, but hey, I like the Yorktown).
> Lastly, 3 Apache or Cobra attack helicopters taking out Japanese Troops invading Wake Island.



It seems to me that the F-22 wouldnt be all that effective.. i suppose they could intercept them very far from the target but a dog fight is hard to imagine. I would think that sea furies or bearcats would do more damage.

consider that the US didn't have air superiority.. the choppers may have been over whelmed.


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## comiso90 (Jan 22, 2007)

HealzDevo said:


> 3 Apache Longbows, 3 AC-130s and 3 CH-53 Super Stallions.
> The Apaches for taking out Armour and limited air-support. The AC-130s for taking out bunkers and troop concentrations. The CH-53 Super Stallions for bringing in troops to drop at strategic points on Iwo Jima.



CH-53's on Guadacanal woulda been pretty darn helpful too.


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## mkloby (Jan 22, 2007)

US uses CH-53's as heavy lifters, not as air assault. 46's are better suited for air assault, and that's their mission.


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## timshatz (Jan 22, 2007)

All of scenarios are tactical. Think big, think out of the box. Here are two night missions.

3 A6 Intruders each carrying 8 2,000 lbs bombs each. 4each of the 2,000 pounders on each carrier of the Japanese attack force going for Pearl Harbor and Dec 7th never happens. 

3 F111s on seperate missions over Rome, Berlin and Moscow on September 3rd, 1939 dropping laser guided bombs and WW2 totally changes. No Hitler, No Mussolinini, No Stalin.

All the tactical birds, no matter if it were Kursk or Guadalcanal or any other place, all have the same problems of having to come down and re-arm/refuel. They're also vunerable to ground fire. Eventually, they'll be used up. Probably on the same day.


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## k9kiwi (Jan 22, 2007)

3 Ac-130 for beach suppresion June 6 1944.

Air supremacy has been supplied already, so no serious need for a modern fighter.

Would of made a huge difference on Omaha beach.


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## comiso90 (Jan 22, 2007)

timshatz said:


> All of scenarios are tactical. Think big, think out of the box. Here are two night missions.
> 
> 
> 3 F111s on seperate missions over Rome, Berlin and Moscow on September 3rd, 1939 dropping laser guided bombs and WW2 totally changes. No Hitler, No Mussolinini, No Stalin.
> ...


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## comiso90 (Jan 22, 2007)

k9kiwi said:


> 3 Ac-130 for beach suppresion June 6 1944.
> 
> Air supremacy has been supplied already, so no serious need for a modern fighter.
> 
> Would of made a huge difference on Omaha beach.



What is the operational altitude for the AC -130? The germans had an awful lot of triple A and an orbiting AC-130 would been a big fat target.


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## pbfoot (Jan 22, 2007)

3 A10 s for fighter /attack/ strategic bombing as they would blow the doors off any fighter opposition ,carry and deliver strategic weapons and the attack factor is not disputable
3 P3's would ensure control of the seas and would be an excellent intelligence gatherers
3 Blawkhawks just to do what they do


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## Glider (Jan 22, 2007)

1 x AWACS and 2 x Phantoms in the battle over Berlin supporting the poor old Lancs and Halifax's. 8 x air to air missiles each plus the 20mm Gatling a night should knock a hole in the German nightfighters over a two week period


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## johnbr (Jan 22, 2007)

3 B1b with air fuel bombs and cruise missiles
3 A10
3 Blawkhawks


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## timshatz (Jan 22, 2007)

/QUOTE]

i like the fact u mentioned Stalin![/QUOTE]


Not a big fan of the comrades. Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Il Jong, you name it, all a bunch of losers. 

Sorry for the thread drift. Back to the topic. 

A10s are damage resistant but they will come down if hit hard enough. Germans had 20mm, 37mm, 88mm, ect all over the invasion area. While it is designed to take more of a pounding than comprable aircraft, it will come down if hit by the right weapon at the right place.


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## k9kiwi (Jan 22, 2007)

> What is the operational altitude for the AC -130? The germans had an awful lot of triple A and an orbiting AC-130 would been a big fat target.



Stand off with sensors and 105's to flatten AA. Then move in as needed on hot spots.


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## comiso90 (Jan 22, 2007)

k9kiwi said:


> Stand off with sensors and 105's to flatten AA. Then move in as needed on hot spots.



Sounds good but could 40 MM AA effectively reach a AC-130 operational height.? I bet the 88's could but they would be easy to target and there were tons of 40mm.


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## timshatz (Jan 23, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> Sounds good but could 40 MM AA effectively reach a AC-130 operational height.? I bet the 88's could but they would be easy to target and there were tons of 40mm.



Yeah, gotta agree with that one. And there were a ton of 88s in Normandy as well as 37mm. Not as many as the 20mm, but still plenty. 

However, if the 130 were working at night, it would help. Odds still say sooner or later it will eat one (lost at least one in the first Gulf War over Kuwiat- although if it was AAA or SAM I can not say). However, the AC130 would be vunerable to a German Nightfighter if it was working in the dark. 

An AC130 might be better in a place like Peliliu, Okinawa or Iwo Jima after the heavier weapons had been suppressed. Some place were supply could be cut off. Working at night, they would be formidable.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 23, 2007)

in 1940 i'll put all mine together and take 9 Sea Harrier FA.2s, short turn around time, need no airfeild for jerry to bomb and not only can they dogfight the Germans but they could attack them at their bases too............


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## timshatz (Jan 23, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> in 1940 i'll put all mine together and take 9 Sea Harrier FA.2s, short turn around time, need no airfeild for jerry to bomb and not only can they dogfight the Germans but they could attack them at their bases too............



Would be interesting if took the Sea Harriers into the Jungle with something like the Chindits. Roving air force. Have supplies dropped into clearings that were held by the ground forces. Each move would be to another secure LZ. Things get hairy, Harriers hit the road and the troops beat feet to meet up somewhere else. Need at least a regiment to cover two LZs at a time but it would be interesting. 

Probably impossible logistically but and interesting idea.


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## timshatz (Jan 23, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> in 1940 i'll put all mine together and take 9 Sea Harrier FA.2s, short turn around time, need no airfeild for jerry to bomb and not only can they dogfight the Germans but they could attack them at their bases too............



Would be interesting if took the Sea Harriers into the Jungle with something like the Chindits. Roving air force. Have supplies dropped into clearings that were held by the ground forces. Each move would be to another secure LZ. Things get hairy, Harriers hit the road and the troops beat feet to meet up somewhere else. Need at least a regiment to cover two LZs at a time but it would be interesting. They use little Liason aircraft to keep communications with them back in the 40s. 

Probably impossible logistically but and interesting idea.


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## HealzDevo (Jan 23, 2007)

For BOB, A squadron of F-15 Strike Eagles as well as a squadron of F-18 Hornets + a Stratotanker for ATA refuelling. The F-15 Strike Eagles would do ATA as well as attack German Airfields. So would the F-18 Hornets. The Stratotanker would extend their range and give Goering a real fright...


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## comiso90 (Jan 23, 2007)

HealzDevo said:


> For BOB, A squadron of F-15 Strike Eagles as well as a squadron of F-18 Hornets + a Stratotanker for ATA refuelling. The F-15 Strike Eagles would do ATA as well as attack German Airfields. So would the F-18 Hornets. The Stratotanker would extend their range and give Goering a real fright...



Didn't Goering say that when he saw Mustangs over Berlin he knew the war was lost... Imagine what he would have said in regards to the F-15!


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## HealzDevo (Jan 23, 2007)

Exactly, he would have said, Oh Hell! Well not quite. His words would have probably have been German that is unprintable on this website... Certainly have been a quick war though, if F-15s and F-18 Hornets plus refuellers were available...


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## Glider (Jan 24, 2007)

What happened to the limit of three aircraft. We are now up to squadrons of this, squadrons of that plus support.

Next we will have the US 6th Fleet at Midway


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## HealzDevo (Jan 28, 2007)

Why not? Certainly make it interesting... Besides natural growth. We are talking about a situation of a world war after all...


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