# The Battle of Rourke's Drift



## olbrat (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm curious about The Battle of Rourke's Drift and wondered if anyone could answer a few questions.

How many men were there on each side?
How may casualties were there on both sides?
Was the movie "Zulu" very accurate?


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## Njaco (Apr 8, 2008)

1). There was 139 British troops against about 4,500 Zulus. The Zulus that attacked the drift were actually going against orders and had crossed the border. It was not a planned attack nor in the battle plans of the Zulus.

2.) I'll have to check.

3.) the movie has some inaccuracies but Hollywood being Hollywood its not bad. One inaccuarcy; The preacher Witt was not a drunkard and actually was one of the first to report the Zulus coming along with the Commissar.

Check here for some:
Zulu (1964) - Goofs

There is a thread here that goes into the battle and there is also a very good website. Will try to find it.


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## olbrat (Apr 8, 2008)

Thanks Njaco!

I think I'll be going to the library to read up more on this interesting event.


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## Njaco (Apr 8, 2008)

Another interesting aspect of this battle is the number of Victoria Crosses awarded. And what happened to the reciepents afterward.


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## olbrat (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks for the tip Njaco - I'll look that up too!


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## renrich (Apr 9, 2008)

One of my all-time favorite movies. Saw it again a few nights ago. I wonder if the sound of the rifles was anything like the sound of a Martini being fired?


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## Njaco (Apr 9, 2008)

I'm not sure if the sound was accurate. What always impressed me was the tactics used by Bromhead and Chard. I remember it being the first time I realized how gun lines and boxes were used by the British. And the impressive sight of the Zulus on the hill when they first appear.

Favorite line:
Colour Sergeant Bourne: "It's a miracle." 
Lieutenant John Chard: "If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle." 
Colour Sergeant Bourne: "And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind."


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## renrich (Apr 10, 2008)

Way to go Njako, when I read those lines you posted a shiver went up my spine. I have read a lot of books by Bernard Cornwell, particularly about the British infantry and their drills and subsequent battlefield execution of those tactics with muskets. No doubt that based on the infantry tactics of the day they were the best trained in the world. Those tactics stood them in good stead at Rorke's Drift.


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## Njaco (Apr 10, 2008)

My thoughts exactly. Its sometimes difficult to imagine what is read in a book but that movie brought it out fantastically. Thats what I do like about the movie. It tried very hard to be accurate from Jones from Boothwynn right down to weapons and tactics. Just when you thought all was lost another military maneuver was used. For that I love the movie and can forgive the inaccuracies, such as they are.


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## renrich (Apr 10, 2008)

To me the movie does not appear dated at all. No special effects by computer but the action seems pretty realistic and the photography is excellent. I believe Stanley Baker directed as well as acted in the movie. It would be interesting to see the ballistics of the rifle. Reminds me of Kipling;" When arf of your bullets go wide in the ditch; Don't call your Martini a cross eyed old bitch; For she is a lady and you treat as sich; And she'll fight for the young British soldier."


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## Njaco (Apr 10, 2008)

Ren, just found this....

The Martini-Henry


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## timshatz (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm not so sure the tactics were all that great at Rourke's Drift. Not that what happened there wasn't a great feat of arms. But they were using a .45 (heavy) round against guys armed with spears (taking into consideration the suppressing fire from Zulu Warriors with weapons from the column). It really wasn't all that even a matchup.

The Brits just had to keep the volume of fire up and keep the "fort" intact. I understand it is not as easy to do as it sounds but their job was easier than that of the Zulus. For the Zulus, they had to cross some 100 yards of open ground, clamber up on top of fortifications, climb down and then get at the British. The whole time, they are being shot at and, at the end, they face several British soliders with bayoneted rifles that have the reach on them. 

There really wasn't much the British did from start to finish but hold ground. That, is something the Brits are famous for doing very well. Historically, and as a group, the Brits are very hard to get out of a place once they get there.


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## renrich (Apr 11, 2008)

Good site Njaco, Tim, I agree with your observations. As long as they did not panic, the British stood an excellent chance of surviving. In the site about the Martini, it mentions that the British opened fire at 400 yards instead of the 100 yards portrayed in the movie. Apparently the fields of fire were open enough for that. Even a Zulu is going to take several minutes to advance 400 yards. I have personal experience about how fast a falling block weapon like a Martini can be fired as I have hunted many times with a No 1 Ruger. I would estimate that the British could get off at least ten rounds a minute. If it takes the Zulus 4 minutes to advance 400 yards(that is probably optimistic) and there are 100 rifles, that is 4000 bullets they face in one charge. If you saw "Gettysburg" and what Longstreet said about Picketts charge, It is mathematical, the charge will fail. They estimate around six hundred Zulus KIA eventually. That is about 50% casualties but does not include wounded who survived. Terrible carnage.


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## timshatz (Apr 11, 2008)

The odd thing about it is, if you look at history, situations like this are fairly common. Leadership on one side miscalculates, sends troops forward for an easy kill and end up throwing their soliders against prepared positions and at a technological disadvantage. Agincourt, Rourke's Drift and the Somme come to mind right away. 

You get the feeling that either somebody wasn't paying attention, they were blinded by the thought of an easy kill or they just didn't do their homework.

PS- Ren, your math is good. Probably about right too. Add in the later attacks had to climb over the bodies of the earlier attacks, the tiredness factor as well as demorialization and it probably gets worse for the Zulus. One cannon from the American Civil war and a trained crew firing from 800 yards and the battle has a different outcome.


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## davparlr (Apr 11, 2008)

I read somewhere that the Zulus were more afraid of the bayonets than they were of the bullets.


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## Emac44 (Apr 11, 2008)

Rourke's Drift is the engima of the British Infantry from the 1870s to the Boer War Period of Sth Africa. But one has to remember that Rourke's Drift and the earlier battle at Isandlwana became a political football. Lord Chelmsford had to make ammends for his stumbling attack into Zululand and under estimating the Zulu's themselves as a fighting force.

1) Lord Chelmsford was instrumental in putting a political spin to the battles and the entire Zulu War even after Rourke's Drift and Isandlwana
2) There is evidence suggesting that Lord Chelmsford had conspired with Queen Victoria and members of the British Parliament in some of the receipants of Victoria Crosses and it was a Political awarding of said Victoria Crosses.
3) As for both Lt Bromhead and Lt Chard there seems to be a some what confusing account as to what capability both these Officers had. I will get back to you when I find out more on both these British Officers.

But in the long run the movie Zulu like any movie has inaccurate material in the movie. It does make lesser mention of the Natal Mounted Police and what part the Boers themselves played in assisting the British in Zululand. To get a rounder picture of Zulu I suggest you watch Zulu Dawn as well Olbrat. Zulu Dawn details the events leading up to Rourke's Drift as it focuses more on Lord Chelmsford's Preparations to invade Zululand and what occurs at Isandlwana. Which in the history of the British Army ranks prior to the Fall of Singapore as the biggest Military Blunder of the British Army. The accounts after Rourke's Drift by the British Army into Zululand make less savoury reading and is seen as one of a British Army atroscity towards the Zulu's themselves. Reports of bayonetting wounded Zulu's and the torching of Native Krall's by the British Army and other atroscities are well known about. Olbrat there are plenty of websites on Rourke's Drift Isandlawana and the Zulu Wars that you can avail yourself off. Hope I have helped you in some areas


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## timshatz (Apr 11, 2008)

Saw both movies and you're right Emac, ZULU DAWN was the better movie from a historically accurate perspective. 

Both were good movies.


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## Emac44 (Apr 11, 2008)

Here is the list of Victoria Cross Winners from Rourke's Drift
1) Lt Gonville Bromhead
2) Lt John Rouse Merriott Chard
3) Commisariat James Langley Dalton
4) Surgeon James Henry Reynolds
5) Corporal William Wilson Allen
6) Private Fredrick Hitch
7) Private William Jones
8) Private John Williams
9) Private Robert Jones
10) Private Alfred Henry Hook
11) Constable Christian Ferdinard Schiess (Natal Mounted Police).

And why Colour Sergent Bourne was never awarded a Victoria Cross for the Battle of Rourke's Drift seems one of those mysteries coming from that era


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## renrich (Apr 11, 2008)

Do any of youall know if the British formed squares at Isandlwana?


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## Emac44 (Apr 11, 2008)

No Renrich. Isandlwana the British were caught in their encampment. Even the artillery didn't have time to be brought into action. Waterloo and other battles yes but not so it seems with Isandlwana


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## Njaco (Apr 11, 2008)

I believe the only section to actually get into a proper line and fight like a British soldier at Isandlwana was Durnford's unit. It was when the left gave way that he would be surrounded, so he backed towards the hill and trench.

Still trying to find that website. It was excellent. Gave the battle and the aftermath including what happened to the VC winners. Chard and Bromhead IIRC didn't live for another 10 or 15 years after. And Hitch's VC was stolen several times.

Found It!!

Rorke's Drift, 1879 - The highest number of Victoria Crosses awarded to a regiment for one action

You really have to take some time and check this site out. Interesting fact: Colour-sergeant Bourne died on 8 May 1945!


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## renrich (Apr 12, 2008)

In my extensive research about British Army tactics of the 18th and 19th century accomplished by reading all of Cornwell's Richard Sharpe stories, LOL, I have determined that forming a square was an excellent tactic against cavalry. Kidding aside, it is easy to see how a square with properly trained soldiers equipped with smooth bore muskets and bayonets would be formidable against horse soldiers and would seem to be a good tactic against Zulus, although as Kipling said the Fuzzie Wuzzies broke a British square.


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## Emac44 (Apr 12, 2008)

Renrich The Square had been used in many Battles by British Soldiers. One being the Squares formed at Waterloo. But that isn't to say that was basic Military Formation. The Gloscesters Regiment for example on their Cap Badges wear one forward on their caps and one smaller cap badge to the rear of their cap. And at the moment I can't recall which battle it was that the Gloscester Regiment had to form a line and face both directions in Battle as attacks were coming from Front and Rear. But one thing the British Soldier emphasis during those Colonial Days was seldom under Estimated by the British People themselves as the British Soldier was the symbol of the British Empire just as Queen Victoria was herself. Songs like The Soldiers of the Queen from that period of time. I can give you an example. Edward Woodward the British Actor in an Australian Movie played Breaker Morant (Harry Harbord Morant) in the movie The Breaker. He was English but had migrated to Australia and at the time joined the Army and had been shipped to South Africa during the Boer War. In the movie Woodward sung the song Soldiers of the Queen. It is a most stirring anthem for the British Soldier and would have been during Victorian Times. You mentioned Rudyard Kipling and his books of Colonial India spring to my mind. One being Kym and later when Lord Baden Powell had began the Boy Scout Movement, The stories of Kym played significant training and learning in the Boy Scout Movement. As well the names from Kiplings book the Jungle Book. Its funny when I see the old Disney Movie of the Jungle Book and different charactors names are mentioned. I don't think of the cartoon movie but of Scout Masters I knew when I was an Air Scout. I remember my Scout Master Begarah teaching me Bush Craft and Orienteering Map reading and using a compass for bearings. And Observation. And you know what is really strange I haven't forgotten any of it. I still know how to compass bear and read a map. I still observe and take note of what is around me. And I remember very well BushCraft and reading signs and tracking taught to me as an Air Scout. Kipling and Powell came from the well spring of the British Army. Though mostly the stories from Kipling now play little in the Scouting Movement of today. Sometimes I am amazed that the Scouting Movement recognises Lord Baden Powell as the founder of the Boy Scout Movement


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## Njaco (Apr 12, 2008)

Didn't the fuzzy-wuzzies defeat a square during the Battle of El Obeid? For what its worth found this on Wiki:

Battle of El Obeid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Either by mistake or by design, their guides led them astray, and they soon found themselves surrounded. The regular's morale plummeted and they started to desert en masse. After marching for some time they were set upon by the entire Mahdist army on November 3rd. *The Egyptian forces quickly formed into a defensive square. According to reports published in England soon after, the square held for two days before finally collapsing.* About one-third of the Egyptian soldiers surrendered and were later freed, while all the officers were killed. Only about 500 Egyptian troops managed to escape and make it back to Khartoum. Neither Hicks nor any of his senior officers were among them. Apparently only two or three Europeans survived."

My bold. Was this true?


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## Juha (Apr 13, 2008)

IMHO a good book on Zulu War and on Rourke's Drift is Morris’ The Washing Of The Spear.

On Martini-Henry, on those far-off days before Political Correctness there was a game at Imperial War Museum where one ought to shoot down IIRC 8 attacking Zulus with a Martini-Henry replica with 10 rounds or the Zulus got the shooter. IIRC the game was rather realistic. IIRC Martini-Henry replica was rather heavy when compared to Assault Rifle 62 which we used at that time in the Finnish Army and ROF seemed reasonable for a single shot rifle. And one didn’t have too much time to aim if one wanted to manage to shoot all 8 before some got to spear throwing distance. Of course there was no kick when firing the rifle and no fear to be speared within a minute. Additionally the rifle was fixed onto the game machine near the muzzle end of the barrel. Maybe because of the technical reasons but that made hitting at greater distances much easier.

Juha


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## renrich (Apr 13, 2008)

In reading about Isandlwana online it mentioned that some of the soldiers did form square but were overwhelmed by numbers. As a Boy Scout in the 40s, I remember the mention often of Baden Powell. Kipling has always been my favorite poetry.


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## Emac44 (Apr 13, 2008)

renrich said:


> In reading about Isandlwana online it mentioned that some of the soldiers did form square but were overwhelmed by numbers. As a Boy Scout in the 40s, I remember the mention often of Baden Powell. Kipling has always been my favorite poetry.



It wasn't just Poetry but a way of life in Colonial India that Kipling wrote about Renrich. Kipling's Kym also mentioned Russian Spies in around the Afghan/Indian Border Regions. And history tells us that did occur I could be wrong about Isandlwana about Soldiers forming Squares. 

Little bit of a Scouting snippet here Renrich. 

My Father met Lord Baden Powell at the Boy Scout Jamborree in Frankston Victoria in 1932. And of course shook hands with the man himself (Left Hand). When Dad was in Ubon Thailand he related this to a Thai Boy Scout. The Thai Boy Scout revered my Father with near celebrity status for shaking hands with Lord Baden Powell. And would you believe Renrich I still have my Scouting Scarves Link Badges Troop Badges and District Badges. And also my Belt and woggle. And I was thinking I might put them on the website. Would you as 1 old Boy Scout to another be interested in seeing them

I have already placed them on a Thread in Personal Gallery. Calling all Scouts Guides Cubs and Brownies. Hope you enjoy what I put there Renrich


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## renrich (Apr 13, 2008)

I would enjoy seeing those, Emac. I believe the British that formed square were out of ammo and had nothing left but bayonets. A scary thought.


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## plan_D (Apr 13, 2008)

I love this; non-British discussing the British Empire and not throwing a single piece of manure at Britain. Excellent reading. Never gave myself enough time to look into the British Empire in Africa or India; especially not the war fighting. Watching "Zulu" is the closest I ever came to learning about the British "Red Coat" there. 

Anyway, carry on, it's good to see people discuss the British Empire with a neutral view-point for once instead of damning it for the imperialism.


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## Njaco (Apr 13, 2008)

Plan, got nothing like that against the UK as the same could probably be said for the US the last 100 years or other countries at different times - through the Romans and the Vikings, etc.

I don't believe that they were able to form squares at Isandhlwana...

"Pulleine deployed two guns and some companies to the east of the NNC camas others on the left took up a position to cover the retreat of Cavaye and Mostyn who fell back to form their right front. The whole line was a mile and a half long from Young-Husband on the left to Scott on the conical hill to the east and faced north and north-east."

from rorkesdriftvc.com - Isandhlwana

The movie Zulu Dawn had it fairly correct in that they used lines instead of squares.


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## Emac44 (Apr 13, 2008)

plan_D said:


> I love this; non-British discussing the British Empire and not throwing a single piece of manure at Britain. Excellent reading. Never gave myself enough time to look into the British Empire in Africa or India; especially not the war fighting. Watching "Zulu" is the closest I ever came to learning about the British "Red Coat" there.
> 
> Anyway, carry on, it's good to see people discuss the British Empire with a neutral view-point for once instead of damning it for the imperialism.



Come on Plan you know me better than that. The British Empire is important to Australian History as its fundamentaly linked to Australia. Without the British Empire and Colonialism I wouldn't be here nor would Australia. 

But seeing I am like any good Aussie I will take a tongue in cheek swipe at you Poms when the opportunity arises. And you of all people should know the ramifications and history of the British Empire. 

I am surprised that you do not Shame Shame Shame on you Plan. Fancy a good old Pom like yourself leaving the discussion of the British Empire to 2 Americans and an Australian. Dog my cats I thought I would never see the day a Pom stuck on a subject he should know but doesn't. Ooops the opportunity rose I think mate


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## Emac44 (Apr 13, 2008)

renrich said:


> I would enjoy seeing those, Emac. I believe the British that formed square were out of ammo and had nothing left but bayonets. A scary thought.



Scout mementos already posted Renrich


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## Njaco (Apr 13, 2008)

Gotta keep the Empire alive cause you bloody british aren't doin' it!  

Plan, the history is actually pretty fascinating. I've read Churchill's personnal account of his time in the Sudan (gotta get past that late 1800's vernacular!) and one of my favorite books is "Queen Victorias Little Wars". Pretty good read, covers from the end of Waterloo up to the Boxer rebellion. Gives a good primer course of that time period.


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## Emac44 (Apr 13, 2008)

Njaco said:


> Gotta keep the Empire alive cause you bloody british aren't doin' it!
> 
> Plan, the history is actually pretty fascinating. I've read Churchill's personnal account of his time in the Sudan (gotta get past that late 1800's vernacular!) and one of my favorite books is "Queen Victorias Little Wars". Pretty good read, covers from the end of Waterloo up to the Boxer rebellion. Gives a good primer course of that time period.



Bloody terrible Njaco. Here are 2 Americans and 1 Aussie discussing the British Empire and the Poms who should be involved play mumbley peg on the side lines. Plan we are waving the Union Jack Talking about Queen Victoria and her Empire and you sit there observing. No wonder the Empire fell Njaco the Poms lost interest


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## renrich (Apr 15, 2008)

A minor point but in rereading the account online I noted the following: "The 24th fought to the bitter end at Isandhlwana. When their ammunition ran out they fought with bayonets in squares until the Zulus finally overcame them through sheer weight of numbers." I have been an admirer of British military history since I read every one of CS Forester's Hornblower books as a teenager.


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## Njaco (Apr 15, 2008)

I must have missed that Ren, good find. I always thought the square wasn't used but must be the resources I've read never mentioned it. I can see small groups with the line broke, forming into what they know and trying to defend themselves.


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## plan_D (Apr 24, 2008)

> Gotta keep the Empire alive cause you bloody british aren't doin' it!



Don't get me started on that! The Mayor of Bradford banned the St.Georges Day parade ... surprise, surprise, he's a Muslim!  

I'm just enjoying our colonials admiration of the Empire, Emac. It's taken 200 years for this world to finally realise what a magnificent achievement the British Empire was. 

My history reading hasn't gotten to Africa and India yet; the jewel of the British Empire doesn't interest me, and Africa... well, Africa is just there. If it's naval history of the time, then I'll be glad to help.


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## Emac44 (Apr 25, 2008)

plan_D said:


> Don't get me started on that! The Mayor of Bradford banned the St.Georges Day parade ... surprise, surprise, he's a Muslim!
> 
> I'm just enjoying our colonials admiration of the Empire, Emac. It's taken 200 years for this world to finally realise what a magnificent achievement the British Empire was.
> 
> My history reading hasn't gotten to Africa and India yet; the jewel of the British Empire doesn't interest me, and Africa... well, Africa is just there. If it's naval history of the time, then I'll be glad to help.



Its not such as admiration Plan. Its a realisation without the British Empire I wouldn't be here in Australia. However not to be of knowledge of India and Africa Plan is disgraceful on the part of a fine upstanding POM like yourself. India in particular being the JEWEL OF THE CROWN. Egads Plan have you even forgotten the significance of such a Colony that India was 

Banning St George's Day Parade by the mayor of Bradford as he is a Muslim. Plan is that Political Correctness or just and ASS of a Mayor or both? Perhaps some should just ban the Mayor of Bradford and be done with it Plan


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## Njaco (Apr 25, 2008)

Just so its not exactly a Mutual Admiration Society here, I know almost nothing about UK history on the island. I've mostly been interested in Africa and India when it comes to the UK.

Didn't King Alfred invent cavalry in 1067?


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## Emac44 (Apr 25, 2008)

Not likely Njaco by 1067 The Normans had conquered most of England. And King Harold was dead killed at Hastings the previous year.

But there was King Knute trying to hold back the sea. Much like Plan trying to hold back his temper with the Muslim Mayor of Bradford


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## Njaco (Apr 26, 2008)

I would take comfort its only a mayor and not a presidential canidate with a muslim name and a questionable background.

But thats for another thread. 

Emac, maybe you can answer this. I've read "Washing of the Spears" about English colonization of South Africa culminating in the Zulu wars. How accuarate is that book?


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## Emac44 (Apr 26, 2008)

Can't help you Njaco never heard or read of that book Washing of the Spears so I can only guess at what the book relates to you. Remember Njaco a lot of the information most have involves not only the Zulu Wars but also leads into the Boer Wars with the Afrikanners in South Africa and Rhodesia


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## Vassili Zaitzev (May 31, 2008)

I'm gonna post the battle of isandhlwana from the movie Zulu Dawn, if anybody wants to watch it. If I'm not supposed to post movie scenes on the thread, just tell me and I'll take them down. 


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHhBhGnvZU_


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uGX0kGvSp0_


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Bp_M2D1Pk_


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## frankfurt (Jul 17, 2008)

The Battle of Rorke's Drift -
Imagine this: you are a Lieutenant, a junior officer; you have never had an independent combat command; you have one company of infantry and a small
detachment of engineers at a river crossing; you also have a hospital with
20+ sick and wounded who cannot travel; there are some medical and supply
personnel at this post who are not trained to fight; a courier arrives and tells you that 10,000 Zulus have wiped out a 1,600 man British force that was equipped with rifles, field artillery and mounted troops; 4,000 Zulus are on the way to attack your post.

If 1,600 combat troops were destroyed almost to the last man at odds of only 9:1, what chance does your tiny garrison have of winning a battle at odds of 30:1? Lieutenant Chard was an engineer, and had never commanded combat troops. Lieutenant Bromhead was overage for his rank, partially deaf,
and was due to be forced out of the Army soon for his partial disability and
lack of promotion to Captain. Bromhead and Chard had served on the Northwest Frontier in India [Khyber Pass area] against Afghan tribesmen, but
always under the command of more senior and more experienced Majors and
Colonels.

The battle of Rorke's Drift is the finest example of determined defense [and defense in depth] of a position by a vastly outnumbered force. The British should have lost, but those two officers were brilliant in moving their troops
to counter each attack, and in organizing both a mobile reserve and a final fall back position. They inflicted 20 times more casualties than they suffered.
This battle is still taught in the UK and the U.S. to officer cadets as the right
way to win when the odds are against you.


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## frankfurt (Jul 17, 2008)

The Battle of Rorke's Drift -
Imagine this: you are a Lieutenant, a junior officer; you have never had an independent combat command; you have one company of infantry and a small
detachment of engineers at a river crossing; you also have a hospital with
20+ sick and wounded who cannot travel; there are some medical and supply
personnel at this post who are not trained to fight; a courier arrives and tells you that 10,000 Zulus have wiped out a 1,600 man British force that was equipped with rifles, field artillery and mounted troops; 4,000 Zulus are on the way to attack your post.

If 1,600 combat troops were destroyed almost to the last man at odds of only 9:1, what chance does your tiny garrison have of winning a battle at odds of 30:1? Lieutenant Chard was an engineer, and had never commanded combat troops. Lieutenant Bromhead was overage for his rank, partially deaf,
and was due to be forced out of the Army soon for his partial disability and
lack of promotion to Captain. Bromhead and Chard had served on the Northwest Frontier in India [Khyber Pass area] against Afghan tribesmen, but
always under the command of more senior and more experienced Majors and
Colonels.

The battle of Rorke's Drift is the finest example of determined defense [and defense in depth] of a position by a vastly outnumbered force. The British should have lost, but those two officers were brilliant in moving their troops
to counter each attack, and in organizing both a mobile reserve and a final fall back position. They inflicted 20 times more casualties than they suffered.
This battle is still taught in the UK and the U.S. to officer cadets as the right
way to win when the odds are against you.


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## Watanbe (Jul 21, 2008)

Fantastic read...didn't know much about this topic but have always been interested to learn after watching Zulu! A fantastic movie!


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## sparks (Jul 29, 2008)

Makes me proud I'M Welsh,who else could out sing the ZULUS


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## Njaco (Jul 30, 2008)

I tried to put the badge of the Borders on my siggy but ran out of room. Proud history, read about a suicidal charge in India I believe.


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## merlin (Aug 4, 2008)

sparks said:


> Makes me proud I'M Welsh,who else could out sing the ZULUS



Amen to that.


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## Negative Creep (Dec 1, 2008)

I do believe that even thought it was a Welsh regiment, most of the soldiers were in fact English. Also, the sequel Zulu Dawn is more accurate in terms of weapons and uniforms. I don't think the defenders at Rourke's Drift had bolt action rifles at all


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Dec 1, 2008)

Negative Creep said:


> I do believe that even thought it was a Welsh regiment, most of the soldiers were in fact English. Also, the sequel Zulu Dawn is more accurate in terms of weapons and uniforms. I don't think the defenders at Rourke's Drift had bolt action rifles at all



True, the uniforms in Zulu Dawn were more accurate then in Zulu (the helmets were stained tanned rather then the white helmets in Zulu). As for the rifles, I think the producer ran out of Martini-Henry's and had to improvise.


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## renrich (Dec 1, 2008)

Are you saying that in "Zulu" there were bolt action rifles? I have the dvd and have seen it many times and the rifles were clearly Martini-Henrys. Maybe I missed some bolt actions somehow.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Dec 1, 2008)

renrich said:


> Are you saying that in "Zulu" there were bolt action rifles? I have the dvd and have seen it many times and the rifles were clearly Martini-Henrys. Maybe I missed some bolt actions somehow.



Well, that's what I've heard, but I could be wrong.


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## renrich (Dec 2, 2008)

Well, "Zulu" is one of my favorite all time movies(saw it onscreen, had a video tape and now have a dvd) and I am a gun nut(have a No. One Ruger which has a similar action to the Martini) and I don't recall a bolt action.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Dec 2, 2008)

renrich said:


> Well, "Zulu" is one of my favorite all time movies(saw it onscreen, had a video tape and now have a dvd) and I am a gun nut(have a No. One Ruger which has a similar action to the Martini) and I don't recall a bolt action.



Okay, I'll take your word for it, haven't seen the movie in awhile, probably should go out and buy it.


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## Njaco (Dec 2, 2008)

I have to agree with ren. I don't remember seeing any bolt-actions in the film.


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## timshatz (Dec 3, 2008)

Yeah, I recall they were all Martini-Henrys, with that trapdoor/rolling block single shot action. 

Didn't remember any bolt actions. Don't think the Brits got into them until the 1890s and the first Lee-Enfields.


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