# Day of Remembrance for Victims of Katyn Massacre



## v2 (Apr 10, 2018)

The Katyn massacre was a series of mass executions of Polish intelligentsia committed in April 1940 by NKVD soldiers who were fulfilling the orders of Stalin and the highest command of the Soviet Union.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2ZYdiEE20Y_

Reactions: Bacon Bacon:
1 | Like Like:
1 | Informative Informative:
3 | Like List reactions


----------



## pbehn (Apr 10, 2018)

Lest we forget ............

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 10, 2018)

... and the West was willing to_ believe_ Stalin's lies. He did what he did everywhere ... murder the intelligentsia, the leaders, the gifted ... Stalin and his posse were the epitome of evil.

Reactions: Agree Agree:
3 | Like List reactions


----------



## Wurger (Apr 10, 2018)




----------



## vikingBerserker (Apr 10, 2018)




----------



## swampyankee (Apr 10, 2018)

Not to apologize for Stalin here, but destroying Poland had been Russian policy for at least three hundred years, from before the First Partition. Hitler also made it easy for Stalin's lies about Katyn to be believed, because Hitler had been bragging about murdering Poles for years.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Agree Agree:
1 | Dislike Dislike:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 10, 2018)

swampyankee ... you are conflating Poland - the nation state, with Poland - the Polish people. No one had been discussing wiping out the Polish people for 300 years. Poles were very integrated into the Czarist Empire and indeed subsequently, the Communist Party.
This is Stalin's handiman on the spot in 1939 .... personally executed 7,000 Polish officers in 28 days.
Vasily Blokhin - Wikipedia


----------



## swampyankee (Apr 10, 2018)

michaelmaltby said:


> swampyankee ... you are conflating Poland - the nation state, with Poland - the Polish people. No one had been discussing wiping out the Polish people for 300 years. Poles were very integrated into the Czarist Empire and indeed subsequently, the Communist Party.
> This is Stalin's handiman on the spot in 1939 .... personally executed 7,000 Polish officers in 28 days.
> Vasily Blokhin - Wikipedia



The Poles were very much the victims here; Stalin's motivation in destroying Poland -- and the people who could lead Poland -- was probably not that much different from that of the European rulers who destroyed the nation-state of Poland in the Partitions.

What does surprise me is how the Katyn Massacre remained hidden during the Cold War. Certainly, that Hitler was simultaneously committing genocide helped to hide Stalin's crimes.


----------



## Torch (Apr 10, 2018)

I remember my father translating my aunts and uncles in Poland how shocked they were to find out that it was the Soviets who did the slaughtering and not the Nazi's. That cover up lasted a long time and I know the Polish people, at least the ones I know/knew had a deep seated resentment and hatred to those that did this.

Reactions: Friendly Friendly:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 10, 2018)

".... that Hitler was simultaneously committing genocide helped to hide Stalin's crimes."
More like ... that the Allies and their media had already bought into Stalin's agenda helped to hide's Stalin's atrocities. IMO.

Reactions: Agree Agree:
2 | Dislike Dislike:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Gnomey (Apr 10, 2018)

Lest we forget

Reactions: Agree Agree:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 10, 2018)

... lest we_ remember_ the wrong message.


----------



## Greg Boeser (Apr 10, 2018)

Our church has a memorial plaque commemorating the victims of this massacre.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Winner Winner:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## v2 (Apr 11, 2018)

Greg Boeser said:


> Our church has a memorial plaque commemorating the victims of this massacre.


Hi Greg, make a photo, please...

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## swampyankee (Apr 11, 2018)

Stalin's willingness to murder allies and imagined enemies is an interesting contrast to his disbelief in the invasion from his buddy, Adolf.


----------



## Greg Boeser (Apr 11, 2018)

v2 said:


> Hi Greg, make a photo, please...


Will do.


----------



## J.A.W. (Apr 12, 2018)

Oddly enough, the Pope, & Stalin, each other sworn enemies, both did deals with Hitler,
after he'd impressed them with his doings..
(The Pope by anti-Jewish/Communist measures, & Stalin's purges being inspired by Nazi 'night of the long knives')

Hitler died 'in *good grace' with the RC Church, if not with **Stalin,
- who reckoned that J.Edgar Hoover had done a deal with Hitler, too..

That Stalin sardonically reclaimed the bloody soil of 'Holy Mother Russia' from the Papist Poles,
while ethnic-cleansing the Lutheran Prussians out of their lands to hand to the Poles,
( so long as they were kept in order by his 'Jew-Bolshevist ***Commissars') , is yet another irony.

*Dying 'in good grace' - means that you have a sure place in 'Heaven' - according to RC dogma.

**Stalin did not accept Hitler died in the bunker, & suspected that via the FBI/OSS - he'd escaped with his life,
- just as the US did an even more blatant deal with Hirohito, while still claiming his 'unconditional surrender'..
- to date, no certain proof has contradicted ol' Joe, such as DNA tests of putative Hitler bone samples.

***Who continued to cruelly persecute those returnee Poles who'd fought with the West, as 'enemies of the State'.

Reactions: Informative Informative:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 12, 2018)

".... Stalin's willingness to murder allies and imagined enemies is an interesting contrast to his disbelief in the invasion from his buddy, Adolf."
You need to think like a _hard core communist _who has robbed banks and fought in nasty-dirty Civil War fights and who was intended to be an Orthodox priest, to see just how consistent ... mostly  ... Stalin really was. He saw the world entirely through communism .. the atheistic, Marxist narrative that we see taking form in the west these days ... BUT ... Stalin saw his role as implementing "communism in a _single_ country" ... something Marx had never described. Stalin inherited/usurped a revolution that had stalled out. What do you do when the Revolution doesn't go global?? Pragmatist Stalin knew the answer, just as Peter the Great knew the answer, you create a new state ... a powerful state ... a state that can be controlled by one man ... and when you get that venture off the ground you advance your cause by intimidation and propaganda.
And of course it goes without saying that such a lifestyle as Stalin led was/is guaranteed to create _raving paranoia_ ... 
COMINTERN agents all across Europe were confirming that Germany wasn't buying up furs and sheep-skins ... Stalin thought _tha_t was telling. (In Hitler's mind the campaign was going to be over before winter)
British, French and American diplomats warned Stalin about Barbarossa ... but_ their_ interests were suspect ... capitalistic/imperialistic, Stalin thought. (Britain, France and America hadn't done a deal with Hitler ... Stalin had. He'd gambled and lost.)

Stalin is the absolute embodiment of all the weaknesses of the marxist-intellectual mind-set, IMHO. The capacity to rationalize and then espouse absolute contradictions of fact and then to make decisions involving massive quantities of blood and treasure. Stalin bears responsibility for the massive Soviet body count inflicted by the Germans ... he threw his resources away ... squandered them ... because _doctrine t_old Stalin Attack, always Attack.
Machine guns don't kill soldiers ... politicians do.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Dislike Dislike:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## swampyankee (Apr 12, 2018)

michaelmaltby said:


> ".... Stalin's willingness to murder allies and imagined enemies is an interesting contrast to his disbelief in the invasion from his buddy, Adolf."
> You need to think like a _hard core communist _who has robbed banks and fought in nasty-dirty Civil War fights and who was intended to be an Orthodox priest, to see just how consistent ... mostly  ... Stalin really was. He saw the world entirely through communism .. the atheistic, Marxist narrative that we see taking form in the west these days ... BUT ... Stalin saw his role as implementing "communism in a _single_ country" ... something Marx had never described. Stalin inherited/usurped a revolution that had stalled out. What do you do when the Revolution doesn't go global?? Pragmatist Stalin knew the answer, just as Peter the Great knew the answer, you create a new state ... a powerful state ... a state that can be controlled by one man ... and when you get that venture off the ground you advance your cause by intimidation and propaganda.
> And of course it goes without saying that such a lifestyle as Stalin led was/is guaranteed to create _raving paranoia_ ...
> COMINTERN agents all across Europe were confirming that Germany wasn't buying up furs and sheep-skins ... Stalin thought _tha_t was telling. (In Hitler's mind the campaign was going to be over before winter)
> ...




...and whose brother was executed by the czar. Personally, I think that Stalin's behavior was _Stalin_, and not from his ideology. He would have been just as horrible in any position where he had that sort of unbridled power, whether the title was Chancellor, Chairman of the Central Committee, or czar.

And let's broaden that "marxist-intellectual" mindset to "authoritarian-dictatorial." 

Robbing banks was (and is) a common tactic of all sorts of anti-government organizations: they are, after all, where the money is. Stalin robbed banks, as did the Irgun, the Lebanese Phalange, the IRA, the PLO, Mao, and the Shining Path. Hitler didn't need to; he had friends with money, as did, say, Franco and Pinochet.


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 12, 2018)

"... let's broaden that "marxist-intellectual" mindset to "authoritarian-dictatorial."
Can't really ... one hides behind the facade of pseudo philosophy, the other can come in any philosophical shape or form and makes no pretense of higher aspirations than concentration of power. But of course "marxist-intellectual" always is "authoritarian-dictatorial" in the end ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Agree Agree:
1 | Dislike Dislike:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Greg Boeser (Apr 12, 2018)

J.A.W. said:


> Oddly enough, the Pope, & Stalin, each other sworn enemies, both did deals with Hitler,
> after he'd impressed them with his doings..
> (The Pope by anti-Jewish/Communist measures, & Stalin's purges being inspired by Nazi 'night of the long knives')
> 
> ...



Some interesting theories on what the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope did/did not do during WW2.
As far as I know, Hitler died unrepentant and without benefit of last rites, so can't see how he died in the good graces of the Church, though we pray for the souls of all sinners, trusting their souls to the mercy of God.
The Pope's "deal" with Hitler, the Concordat, if that is what you are referring, was an attempt to guarantee the legal status of the Catholic Church in Germany following Hitler's ascension to power. Hitler honored it as well as the Non-aggression Pact with Stalin. Meanwhile, the protestant churches of Germany were nationalized under a Reichsbischof and pretty much toed the Party line, unless you wanted a quick trip to that wonderful spa for clergy, Buchenwald. The Pope was under no illusions about what the Nazis intended for the Catholic Church once they consolidated their grip on Europe. He tried to balance protecting the Church from total destruction by the Nazis and Fascists with defending the souls under the boot of oppression. Thousands of Jews and other enemies of the Nazis, including allied airmen, were smuggled out of occupied Europe through networks run by the Church. His contemporaries thought he did a good job in a tough position, later detractors, egged on by Soviet misinformation, judged against a different standard.

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## MIflyer (Apr 12, 2018)

A friend of mine was in the Polish Army in WWII. He was wounded on the first day of the war. The Germans captured him and he was sent to a POW camp. He escaped twice and was recaptured the first time. The 2nd time was late in the war and he made it to the US Army.

He said that when the Germans moved into the Katyn Forest area that they found the massacre site and got Polish Army doctors to examine the remains and confirm that the killings had occurred before the Germans got there. That was known in WWII.

Note that the invasion of a Poland was essentially a simultaneous invasion by both German and Soviet forces in Sept 1939 and they divided up the country. The Soviets told the Poles they were moving in from the East to help defend the country, but clearly they had planned a joint invasion with the Germans from the beginning.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## J.A.W. (Apr 12, 2018)

Greg Boeser said:


> Some interesting theories on what the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope did/did not do during WW2.
> As far as I know, Hitler died unrepentant and without benefit of last rites, so can't see how he died in the good graces of the Church, though we pray for the souls of all sinners, trusting their souls to the mercy of God.
> The Pope's "deal" with Hitler, the Concordat, if that is what you are referring, was an attempt to guarantee the legal status of the Catholic Church in Germany following Hitler's ascension to power. Hitler honored it as well as the Non-aggression Pact with Stalin. Meanwhile, the protestant churches of Germany were nationalized under a Reichsbischof and pretty much toed the Party line, unless you wanted a quick trip to that wonderful spa for clergy, Buchenwald. The Pope was under no illusions about what the Nazis intended for the Catholic Church once they consolidated their grip on Europe. He tried to balance protecting the Church from total destruction by the Nazis and Fascists with defending the souls under the boot of oppression. Thousands of Jews and other enemies of the Nazis, including allied airmen, were smuggled out of occupied Europe through networks run by the Church. His contemporaries thought he did a good job in a tough position, later detractors, egged on by Soviet misinformation, judged against a different standard.



You post reads as if it was written by the Vatican propaganda dept, rather than via examination of their archives..

The Papal deal with Hitler went far deeper, & that evasion network you note - was also well utilized by ex-Nazis 
post-war, many of whom were on widely circulated wanted lists as fugitive war-criminals..

AFAIR, there was a plan by radical SS/SD elements to 'liquidate' the Pope & blame Communists,
during the confusion attending the Italian-Allied armistice in `43, - but Hitler vetoed the deal..


----------



## GrauGeist (Apr 13, 2018)

The plan to carve up the nation of Poland had old roots.
I am descended from Prussian ancestry and as a child, I recall occasional sentiment (and not very nice) about how Poland's borders were restructured after WWI.
WWII saw quite a bit of old grudges played out, like in the case of Slovakia, Russia and Germany turning on Poland for past grievances.
But the invasion of Poland by all belligerents and how her people were treated was inexcusable - what the Russians did - both at Katyn and later, sitting on their ass while the Poles fought valiantly against the Germans in Warsaw - is absolutely shameful.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Agree Agree:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## GrauGeist (Apr 13, 2018)

J.A.W. said:


> "Stalin's purges being inspired by Nazi 'night of the long knives'"


Actually, Stalin's purges had nothing to do with Germany. The Bolsheviks had been actively killing and purging Russians before Hitler ever left Vienna.

If there was any inspiration, it would have been the French Revolution and the "Night of Terror".


----------



## J.A.W. (Apr 13, 2018)

I expect that is where Hitler drew inspiration from, Hitler was a fan of Napoleon,
seeing himself as being able to succeed in establishing a modern 'Pan-Europa',
& even visiting Napoleon's tomb in Paris, in 1940 - but Hitler evidently didn't learn too
much from the 1812 invasion debacle in Russia..

Maybe that's due to the Heer victory over the Czar in WW 1, & the fact that Hitler
spent his war solely on the Western front - albeit unsuccessfully.

So, having whipped Britain out of France 'himself' in 1940, he'd have 'naturally'
figured he could deal to ol' Joe's mob too, esp' after the Finlanders had shown
them to be such hapless buffoons..

Stalin is on the record (AFAIR - I'll try & find the reference) as both approving of,
& being emboldened by - Hitler's purging of his own party apparatus,
- but also 'naturally' - had to take it to the next level, with his awful 'show trial' stunts,
to 'expose the counter-revolutionary elements' - as demanded by Communist doctrine.


----------



## v2 (Apr 13, 2018)

J.A.W. said:


> You post reads as if it was written by the Vatican propaganda dept, rather than via examination of their archives..
> 
> The Papal deal with Hitler went far deeper, & that evasion network you note - was also well utilized by ex-Nazis
> post-war, many of whom were on widely circulated wanted lists as fugitive war-criminals..
> ...



Polish priests belonged to the group most persecuted by Germans and Russians. The list of victims is attached:
MARTYROLOGY of CLERGY in POLAND

Reactions: Informative Informative:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## GrauGeist (Apr 14, 2018)

J.A.W. said:


> I expect that is where Hitler drew inspiration from, Hitler was a fan of Napoleon,
> seeing himself as being able to succeed in establishing a modern 'Pan-Europa',
> & even visiting Napoleon's tomb in Paris, in 1940 - but Hitler evidently didn't learn too
> much from the 1812 invasion debacle in Russia..
> ...


There's several points I'll touch on, in regards to your post.

First of all, Hitler wasn't a fan of Napoleon. There is some revisionism floating about how Hitler admired Napoleon and such, but it's nonsense. Hitler had a strong dislike of the French and it was Fieldmarschall von Blücher and his Prussians that broke the back of Napoleon's army at Waterloo. Napoleon lost - Hitler was not propping up a loser.

Secondly, the Germans didn't beat the Czar in WWI, the Bulgarians, Austrians, Hungarians, Turks and Germans weakened them and the the Bolsheviks administered the Coupe De Grace. And Germany invested *far more* manpower and assets to the Eastern Front than was committed to the western front in WWII.

The Soviets were being handed their ass by the Finns because Stalin's purges weakened his High Command. After the the Germans invaded, if it wasn't for Zhukov (who escaped the purges) the Germans would have most likely handed Stalin his ass. Stalin was a paranoid megalomaniac who was propped up into power by the bolsheviks, whom he purged out of paranoia. Hitler didn't conduct massive purges, he simply rounded up the mentally retarded, homosexuals, socialists and people who spoke out against the state at first. Using Jews as a scapegoat to further his agenda widened the playing field.
But Hitler never had purges within his own party or his military like the Soviets did.


----------



## J.A.W. (Apr 14, 2018)

If Hitler had no time for Napoleon, then why was he filmed 'paying his respects' at the French dictators tomb?
(Index check 'bout any Hitler book, & see bulk Napoleon references duly noted).

Hitler sure loved Paris, too.. & he didn't send scores of his V-weapons to rain down on the French capital, did he..

Roehm, the Nazi SA boss ( & Hitler's ol' buddy) was 'liquidated' on Hitlers order,
along with other perceived potential rivals to his power, in the 'night of the long knives' Nazi party purge..

Rommel was a notable example of a high-ranking Heer member who was purged, too.


----------



## GrauGeist (Apr 14, 2018)

It appears you have alot to learn about history.

Hitler visited a great many sites in Paris because he was the first German invader to do so. He was photographed in front of the Eiffel Tower not because he admired Eiffel...but because it was a famous landmark.

The V weapons were trained on military targets, he already held Paris, so why would he attack it? Even after Paris was lost to the Allies after D-day, there was no strategic value in attacking Paris. 

The SA became a rival to the SS, there was going to be a power struggle. Rommel was found to be complicit in the attempt on Hitler's life...one General was not even close to the hundreds of officers that were continuously purged under Stalin. The few Germans that came under scrutiny cannot even be compared to the Soviet paranoia...at all.

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## J.A.W. (Apr 14, 2018)

Ah, no...
In fact there were plenty of German 'invaders' sightseeing in Paris, in 1815, & again in 1871.
But Hitler def' saw himself as a C20th 'Napoleon' - & fancied he could do better..

V-weapons were city-bombardment weapons, they lacked the accuracy required for such precise targeting.

Numerous members of the Heer officer cadre were executed when the July `44 plot failed to kill Hitler,
Rommel was a real 'big fish', but he wasn't exempted, even though - he'd long been a - 'Fuehrer's pet'..


----------



## Capt. Vick (Apr 14, 2018)

The end of the movie had such a long lasting and disturbing effect on me, that I fear it has jaded my view of all Russians. I know this is silly, but...God how horrifying. Damn.


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 14, 2018)

".... all Russians."
or, all Communists?

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## swampyankee (Apr 14, 2018)

The differences between Hitler and Napoleon are legion, not least of which is that Napoleon wasn't in the habit of genocide, and that was a major reason for Hitler's war. Napoleon's Civil Code is the basis for the legal system in most of western Europe; Hitler left nothing in his wake except death camps. 

Stalin and Hitler were very much alike: Stalin killed anybody who he thought was a threat, so did Hitler. It's just that Hitler felt that being Jewish or Slavic was sufficient for being a threat, while Stalin thought anybody who somebody said rolled his eyes when Stalin was on the radio was one.

Both Stalin _and Hitler_ would consider the intelligentsia and officer class of Poland to be threats; both would want to kill them, and the simple fact that genocide was a publicly stated, eagerly followed policy of the nazis made it much easier for blame to be placed on the Germans*. Hell, _Hitler's _war crimes are frequently overlooked, excused, or ignored, albeit only by people on the fringe. 



-------

* The simple fact that genocides and other mass war crimes had been performed by other leaders before, after, and during Hitler's reign is frequently overlooked. It doesn't make Hitler less guilty, any more than Manson's crimes made Dahmer less guilty.

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## michaelmaltby (Apr 14, 2018)

You are espousing a _two-dimensiona_l view of the Nazis ... and Hitler, himself. That's a shame because the most interesting aspect of Nazism and Hitler's personality cult, IMHO, is the _hypocrisy _of leading Nazis and Hitler around accepting Jews. The hypocrisy is the 3rd dimension ... it's human ... it's reality ... it's the threshold to putting yourself in others' shoes.
Erhard Milch - Wikipedia,
Milch, who preceded Albert Speer, was Jewish (non practicing). There were numerous Waffen SS officers who were non-practicing Jews. The Reich had no qualms about offering Iron Crosses to Finnish soldiers who were Jewish ... the Finns declined. 
Herman Goering fancied himself as an artiste and liked to circulate with actors and actresses ... some were Jewish.
I'm making this point, swampyankee, because the more I delve into the history and memoirs of the period ... the more clearly I understand how the whole thing took shape, prospered and was accepted. A perfect storm. And_ within_ the movement the Leaders practiced what politicians always practice in every regime ... _do as I say, not as I do_.

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## v2 (Apr 14, 2018)

michaelmaltby said:


> You are espousing a _two-dimensiona_l view of the Nazis ... and Hitler, himself. That's a shame because the most interesting aspect of Nazism and Hitler's personality cult, IMHO, is the _hypocrisy _of leading Nazis and Hitler around accepting Jews. The hypocrisy is the 3rd dimension ... it's human ... it's reality ... it's the threshold to putting yourself in others' shoes.
> Erhard Milch - Wikipedia,
> Milch, who preceded Albert Schpeer, was Jewish (non practicing). There were numerous Waffen SS officers who were non-practicing Jews. The Reich had no qualms about offering Iron Crosses to Finnish soldiers who were Jewish ... the Finns declined.
> Herman Goering fancied himself as an artiste and liked to circulate with actors and actresses ... some were Jewish.
> I'm making this point, swampyankee, because the more I delve into the history and memoirs of the period ... the more clearly I understand how the whole thing took shape, prospered and was accepted. A perfect storm. And_ within_ the movement the Leaders practiced what politicians always practice in every regime ... _do as I say, not as I do_.


The Jews who fought for Hitler: 'We did not help the Germans. We had a common enemy'

Reactions: Winner Winner:
2 | Like List reactions


----------



## v2 (Apr 14, 2018)

Hypocrisy was on all sides... The U.S. Government Turned Away Thousands of Jewish Refugees, Fearing That They Were Nazi Spies | History | Smithsonian

How a Polish Courier Tried to Tell the World About the Holocaust

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## swampyankee (Apr 14, 2018)

v2 said:


> Hypocrisy was on all sides... The U.S. Government Turned Away Thousands of Jewish Refugees, Fearing That They Were Nazi Spies | History | Smithsonian



US racial policies were deeply embedded into immigration laws until the Johnson administration, but they were written, in the 1920s _specifically_ to exclude Eastern Europeans (which included most Ashkenazi Jews), Southern Europeans and other people from the Mediterranean region, (which included most Sephardic Jews), Asians, and Africans. The Cable Act even stripped citizenship from Americans who married people from Asia. Marriage between blacks and whites was illegal in many states, and some racists repeatedly proposed constitutional amendments to forbid it (a proviso forbidding inter-racial marriage remained in the Alabama constitution until quite recently)

As a related anecdote: my Jewish brother-in-law's grandfather immigrated to the US just before WW2; his family was one of the last permitted in under the quota system then in effect. My brother-in-law's father had siblings, but all his cousins were murdered by Hitler.



v2 said:


> How a Polish Courier Tried to Tell the World About the Holocaust



There was a great deal of skepticism, throughout the West, about Hitler's death camp: the Germans were civilized, and civilized people don't do that.

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## J.A.W. (Apr 14, 2018)

swampyankee said:


> The differences between Hitler and Napoleon are legion, not least of which is that Napoleon wasn't in the habit of genocide, and that was a major reason for Hitler's war. Napoleon's Civil Code is the basis for the legal system in most of western Europe; Hitler left nothing in his wake except death camps.
> 
> Stalin and Hitler were very much alike: Stalin killed anybody who he thought was a threat, so did Hitler. It's just that Hitler felt that being Jewish or Slavic was sufficient for being a threat, while Stalin thought anybody who somebody said rolled his eyes when Stalin was on the radio was one.
> 
> Both Stalin _and Hitler_ would consider the intelligentsia and officer class of Poland to be threats; both would want to kill them, and the simple fact that genocide was a publicly stated, eagerly followed policy of the nazis made it much easier for blame to be placed on the Germans*. Hell, _Hitler's _war crimes are frequently overlooked, excused, or ignored, albeit only by people on the fringe.




Incorrect..
Hitler, as an amateur historian - had duly noted Napoleon's ruthless action methods
in his conquests, from callous disregard to his own sick & wounded troops, through vicious
suppression of 'partisan' resistance to French occupation, & the blatantly sadistic terror-tactics
used in his mass-murderous campaigns - to re-establish slavery in French colonies.

Sure Hitler had - in his living memory seen evidence of genocide - that of the Armenians in 1915,
plus more recently, Stalin's cruel starvation scheme in Ukraine, & anti-Kulak activies, too.

Both dictators automatically suppressed dissent, & RC clergy notably, as secretive & influential
'agents' of a 'foreign state', which the Vatican is, - quite naturally.

Reactions: Informative Informative:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Greg Boeser (Apr 16, 2018)



Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Informative Informative:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## parsifal (Apr 16, 2018)

This is an interesting article IMO

Katyn massacre: US hushed up Stalin’s slaughter of Polish officers, released memos show


----------



## v2 (Apr 17, 2018)

parsifal said:


> This is an interesting article IMO
> 
> Katyn massacre: US hushed up Stalin’s slaughter of Polish officers, released memos show


Yes, interesting... but very sad...


----------



## J.A.W. (Apr 17, 2018)

It was worse than a mere 'cover up', the Western Allies openly backed the Stalinst lie,
& joined in by also falsely blaming the crime on the Nazis - when they full-well, knew better..

Reactions: Agree Agree:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Greg Boeser (Apr 17, 2018)

Things never change. Saddam Huessein's brutality was tolerated and even encouraged as long as he was fighting the Iranians.

Reactions: Like Like:
2 | Like List reactions


----------

