# Best Helicopter



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 25, 2005)

Well obviously my fav is the UH-60L Blackhawk because I fly it everyday but what about you guys, what do you think is the best Helicopter? Here are some pics that I have taken of Helicopters here in Iraq. There are also many more helos that I could have put in the poll but I think it was a good start and could get it going.

UH-60L Blackhawk



> Since October of 1989, Sikorsky has been producing the UH-60L BLACK HAWK helicopter with 24 percent more power than the UH-60A model. The T700-GE-701C turbine engines enable the UH-60L to take advantage of the new 3,400 shp improved durability main gearbox.
> The UH-60L was further modified with SEAHAWK flight control components and an increase in tail rotor pitch. These modifications allow the aircraft to take full advantage of available engine power while extending the flight control component fatigue lives in excess of 5,000 hours.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## plan_D (Jan 25, 2005)

It really should be called favourite helicopter, don't you think? I'm voting Chinook because my dad kept them running for years and was one of the first RAF electricians trained on them.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 25, 2005)

The Chinook is a great aircraft, it is the fastest helicopter we have in our army.


----------



## plan_D (Jan 25, 2005)

It is a great aircraft, and extremely fast for its size. It's been the work horse of many countries arms, for a long time.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 25, 2005)

It is a great helo. I am not too fond of them though. I flew on one to go home for my 2 weeks of leave from Iraq and the whole flight it felt like it wanted to have a mid air collision with itself and the engine exhaust came up the back and filling the cabin and it leaked hydraulic fluid on my head the whole flight. If it is not leaking in 7 spots you dont fly it though.


----------



## mosquitoman (Jan 25, 2005)

I went for the Huey, simply because it was the first combat helicopter to be built, if it wasn't for the Huey we wouldn't have the choppers we have today


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 25, 2005)

Great choice. It is a great Helo and that is why our Marines still use it today the UH-1N. I lived around the Huey for all of my life. I used to go in when ever my dad went flying just to watch him take off. My first flight in a helicopter was a huey also. They are bringing back life into the Huey again now working on 2 new varients and might even be making a new version for the Army's light utility helicopter program. But it is basically a brand new aircraft not like the old UH-1H's that were made famouse.

The UH-1Y has already been chosen by the Marines for there replacement for the UH-1N.



> Ask anyone to picture a military helicopter, and chances are high they will visualize the Bell Helicopter Textron UH-1. That’s because it is the most successful military helicopter ever produced. It is the epitome of mission effectiveness, reliability and safety. Over 16,000 UH-1s have been produced, and have operated in challenging environments ranging from the rugged mountains of Bosnia, to the frozen vastness of Antarctica. Many of the first UH-1s delivered are still flying today, some airframes having logged over 30,000 hours. Militaries around the world continue to depend on this proven workhorse to execute combat assaults, evacuate wounded soldiers, transport senior staff, or complete any other helicopter mission you can imagine.
> 
> Over the past 40 years, the legendary UH-1 has continuously improved. From the unstoppable UH-1D, that changed the face of mobile warfare in Southeast Asia, and the highly versatile UH-1H that founded rotary wing aviation for militaries throughout the world, the UH-1 became the standard bearer around the globe. Now with the innovative four bladed, twin engined UH-1Y, Bell Helicopter Textron continues to redefine safety, ability and strength of character in military rotary wing aircraft.
> 
> ...



Bell who designs and builds the Huey also is the maker of the AH-1 Cobra and the next varient of the Cobra is already in the works for the Marines it is called the AH-1Z.

T


> he AH-1Z is the most capable and flexible multi-mission attack helicopter in the world. It is powerful, fast, agile and has the state-of-the-art dynamics, weapons and avionics suites that incorporates the latest survivability equipment available . The AH-1Z has excellent anti-armor capability and excels at the full spectrum of attack helicopter missions. It has the capability to operate effectively in the littorals where 70% of the world’s population live, and the capability to engage and defeat the broadest array of threats imaginable at standoff ranges not enjoyed before. The USMC AH-1Z is powered by the T700-GE-401. At customer choice, the more powerful T700-GE-701C can be installed for even more impressive performance:
> 
> Weapons Capability:
> AGM-114A, B, and C Hellfire and anti-tank missiles up to 16 total
> ...


----------



## plan_D (Jan 26, 2005)

Chinooks are good mine clearers too.  Just kiddin' but my dad says when in the Gulf they came home with mine bits peppered in the bottom because the down draft set loads of mines off. 

Those are some great pictures, adler. I love the Cobra, it's sleek and mean. 






I also like this, RAH-66 Commanche, it's sad that they're giving up on it...or so they tell us.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 26, 2005)

No you are correct the Army gave up on the Comanche. They decided to stay with the AH-64D Longbow, basically because it was cheaper. 

Speaking of mines though. We have an interesting mod that we can attach to our Blackhawks. We only have a couple of them in our unit, my aircraft happens to be one of them. It is called the Volcano System and it dispenses mines. This basically converts the Blackhawk into a mine field layer. I dont know too much about the system because I have never actually used it and have only seen it installed once. All I know is that carries 950 Gator anit personell mines or anti vehical mines. Still it is a pretty quick way to lay mine fields if you had to. 

Here are some interesting pics I took today of an AH-64A Apache at my camp in Iraq. It is unusual in that it is painted grey. Grey is better then the standard Green because it allows the aircraft to blend into the horizon better. Virtually every nation paints there aircraft grey inluding our Airforce, Navy, and Marines. We tried to get our Blackhawks painted Gray before we left Germany but it did not happen. Too bad I think it would have looked pretty sweet.


----------



## DaveB.inVa (Jan 26, 2005)

I think Ive seen the mine dispenser your talking about. It looks like a rack of tubes mounted to the side of the helicopter. 

I've got a cousin who served as a Blackhawk pilot through the 80's and into the 1st Gulf War. Hes a really cool guy and I've learned a lot about the Blackhawk. I know his first ride though was a Huey, don't know how long he was in it though.

I really like the Chinook too, that things a horse!


----------



## HealzDevo (Jan 26, 2005)

I don't think it was just because it was cheaper that the Comanche was ditched. The Comanche was having major problems in coming online when the AH-64D Apache is technology they already have that works 100% and does the job well. By the way nice photos of the A model, which isn't quite as good as the D model in terms of strike-power and ability.


----------



## HealzDevo (Jan 26, 2005)

The Commanche so I was hearing did have some major problems with weapons load-out, systems and airframe. While these could eventually have been solved, it was considered, best in the absence of a major threat, to stick with a proven helicopter that was a good multi-role helicopter and could do its tasks well, rather than go with a not so good stealth helicopter that was a tad overrated at the moment in terms of price. In short the US Army and others decided to cut their losses and stick with a proven system.


----------



## plan_D (Jan 26, 2005)

The Apache looks sweet in grey, it looks even better in grey than green. Your Blackhawk would just look like a USN Seahawk if it were grey, surely. 






The Lynx is the fastest helicopter in the world. It's only because the Chinook slung it.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 27, 2005)

HealzDevo said:


> I don't think it was just because it was cheaper that the Comanche was ditched. The Comanche was having major problems in coming online when the AH-64D Apache is technology they already have that works 100% and does the job well. By the way nice photos of the A model, which isn't quite as good as the D model in terms of strike-power and ability.



Which basically comes down to cost. The Comanche had problems just like every advanced aircraft does in its development stage, but the costs to get it online were too great.

The Longbow is really just an interem solution. An AH-64A has the same capability as the Longbow when it is accompanied with a OH-58D Kiowa Warrior. There are many problems with the Longbow. Our sister unit is an Apache unit and has Longbows and A models. The A models are able to fly more often because the Lonbows are always down for maintenance or broken. They have major electrical problems. The Lonbow takes twice as long to get its systems on line as the A model and the A model took 15 minutes! Atleast twice a week I have to fly out and rescue a broken Apache. For every hour that a Longbow flies it requires 8 hours of maintenance. Once there aircraft is in the air I would not want to mess with it, it is a great attack helicopter and the best of its kind but it has to get in the air first. It is like the first Apache Airstrike of Operation Iraqi Freedom, was a complete failure. They did not achieve there objective, 2 were shot down and all returned with major repairs required and riddled with holes. It is a very fragile aircraft, and that is one of many reasons why the 160th "NightStalkers" Special Operations Aviation Regiment will not use the Apache and uses Blackhawks with Hellfires and Mini Guns as well as OH-6 Little Birds and Chinooks.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 27, 2005)

plan_D said:


> The Apache looks sweet in grey, it looks even better in grey than green. Your Blackhawk would just look like a USN Seahawk if it were grey, surely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are right but I still wish they had repainted ours grey for survivability and because compared the green it would look like something new even if it would like like a Seahawk with modifications.


----------



## plan_D (Jan 27, 2005)

Oh, those AH-6 Little Birds are mean little ones. OH-6 is the Cayuse, ain't it?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 27, 2005)

Yeap sure is, Cayuse but everyone calls them Little Birds. I have some more pics that I found on my computer. I will post them tomorrow because I need to get to bed, ive got a real early show tomorrow.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 28, 2005)

Okay here are some pics that I thought were pretty good. These were taken on my deployment to Kosovo.


----------



## evangilder (Jan 28, 2005)

Great shots! From the cold of Bosnia to the heat of Iraq. Man, you have had some temperature changes!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 28, 2005)

Yeah sure did. I enjoyed Kosovo though, it was terrible to see what had happened there but just being able to work so closely with aviation units from foriegn countries especially the British, Germans, Italians, and Greek was really neat. I met a lot of great people and still have contacts with them and it was a great experience and one that I will not forget.


----------



## evangilder (Jan 28, 2005)

That'll be a great experience to tell your kids and grand-kids about.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 28, 2005)

Oh I dont want my kids knowing about what we did until they are older, they might want to go out and try it. Get a bunch of German, US, and British aviators together and some wiered stuff happens.


----------



## evangilder (Jan 28, 2005)

heheh yep. Some stories need to be later, for sure. Some can be told ay a younger age relatively safely. I am sure wisdom will prevail.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jan 28, 2005)

Great Kosovo helo pics, Adler. Actually they're all great.  
The grey, shark toothed Apache looks awesome! It's the first grey one I've ever seen, I think.

It _is_ great to make contacts and buddies from all over the world.


----------



## plan_D (Jan 29, 2005)

Hey, Adler, I was just wondering. What helicopters are you actually trained to fly?


----------



## lesofprimus (Jan 29, 2005)

He's not a pilot, he's a crew chief.....


----------



## plan_D (Jan 29, 2005)

Damn it! Where's that face thing gone...   Man that took me a long time to find...

Okay, let me re-phrase that..WHAT helicopters have you worked on!?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 29, 2005)

I am qualified to work on all army helicopters except for the Chinooks. My MOS is actually only for the UH-60 Blackhawk though and that is all that I work on. The way it works in the army is you go to regular Basic Training for 9 weeks, then you to your AIT (Advanced Individual Training)For my MOS which is 15T I had to go to Fort Eustis, Virginia for 14 weeks. That place is awesome right next to Norfolk and Virginia Beach. Both places great places to Party on Weekends. There you learn just the basics about aircraft maintenance and learn about the particular aircraft that youa re going to specialize in. Upon graduation from this school you go to first assignment. Once you get there you are placed into a Maintenance Company where all you do is learn the advanced stuff from experienced mechanics. After you have spent some time if you want to when a flight slot opens up you can move into a Flight Company and be a Crew Chief. There you have to go through about 2 to 3 months of Flight Training (not pilot training but you get the basics of how to land a helicopter encase something happens to the pilots. pretty much just simulater time). A Crew Chief sits behind the pilots and has several duties. 2 Crewchiefs are assigned to each aircraft in the flight company and it is our duty to maintain them. Once you are a Crew Chief you have shown that you are an expert in repairing and fixing the aircraft so you dont really do that stuff much anymore but we do all the inspections on the aircraft, do minor repairs, and stuff but other wise we supervise the mechanics in the major repairs. A lot of it is tedious small things like washing the aircraft, cleaning windows and stuff like that. We all try and have the best looking bird in the fleet. Whenever you aircraft flies you go with it as the technical expert on the aircraft. You sit behind the pilots in 2 outward facing seats. We are help out with the navigation and making radio calls. This is where the stuerdess part of it comes in. We are not so attractive overqualified and glorified stuaredesses. We are responsible for the safety of the passengers, we have to passenger briefs kind of like stuardesses do in the airlines and stuff like that. When in Combat situations we are responsible for the defence of the aircraft. Basically we are the door gunners, the army no longer uses infantry as door gunner you have to be a flight trained crewchief or flight trained door gunner in combat. The gunnery training is really great, getting to fly around an arial gunnery range shooting at pop up targets and vehicals and stuff it kind of gives you this old Vietnam Door Gunner feeling. The best part of the job is the fact that when in the aircraft you are god, it does not matter what rank the passengers have, they can be a 4 star General and what you says goes and if they refuse to listen you can kick them off of the aircraft. Do to the fact that you are responsible for the safety of them you can even tackle them, if they are walking into the tail roter or something it is great! I have tackled some very high ranking profile people before and nothing has happened to me! I love it! MUHAHA, MUHAHA
Anyways it is a great job and the mechanics want to be you and hate you at the same time until they see the hard work that really does go into being a Crew Chief. They think we just fly and go home, but once they get a taste of it they quickly change there mind. But hell we work hard, but we play hard!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 29, 2005)

I have been a Crew Chief now for 3 and half years and have about 1200 hours of flight time, of that 363 of it is imminant danger time and as of today 650 of it is combat time.

Oh I forgot to add this into the mechanic/Crewchief thing. In AIT you learn the basics. There are 27 technical manuals, each with thousands of pages in them on how to repair the blackhawk. Lets say that a Hydraulic Pump fails on my aircraft I go and get the book, it tells me steps A though whatever how to replace it. Once you are in the mechanic company you learn the fine details and the tricks of the trade. All aircraft have the same type of manuals, some more than others like the Huey has only one manual but the concept is the same so if you give me an Apache Manual and tell me what is wrong I can fix it. The only aircraft they will not let me work on is the Chinook.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jan 29, 2005)

That sounds like an awesome job. And the pics are cool too.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 29, 2005)

It really is, I really enjoy it.


----------



## evangilder (Jan 29, 2005)

Man, you get to work on the helos _and_ shoot guns?! You DO have a cool job. 8)


----------



## lesofprimus (Jan 29, 2005)

I think I have a picture I took from a helo OVER a submarine..... Lemme look 4 it and see... Ill scan it if I can find it....


----------



## evangilder (Jan 29, 2005)

Pretty cool, I have one that a friend of mine too of a helo from an FFG during the cold war. Here it is.


----------



## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 29, 2005)

Hard to believe the Huey is still in service, even after the maniac Commanche was canceled!

From dust-off and gunship duty in 'Nam, to dropping paras in Iraq!

Great bit of kit!


----------



## Viper (Jan 29, 2005)

I would say the huey, everything about it is good and it has a very good history


----------



## Viper (Jan 29, 2005)

there still using it becuase its so awsome


----------



## evangilder (Jan 29, 2005)

I remember being in a Huey during airbase defense school (ABD), that had the engine experience a "sudden loss of power". More like that phrase you never want to hear while flying "Uh oh". It got pretty quiet, with the exception of the wind through the airframe, and my heart in my ears. I just remember spinning...trees...clear...trees...clear. Then a heavy thud. They say any landing you can walk away from is a good one. Well, we did walk away. My back hurt for awhile after that though.


----------



## Viper (Jan 30, 2005)

when theres a loss of power in anything its a horrible feeling, stomach in your throat.....


----------



## evangilder (Jan 30, 2005)

True, but at least with airplanes, you have some glide (well _some_ airplanes anyway! The Helo felt like it was dropping like a brick.


----------



## lesofprimus (Jan 30, 2005)

We lost the rear rotor on a Ch-47 due to automatic weapons fire in Somolia.... The pilot pulled some AMAZING skills and was able to land us upright, while on fire.. Pretty intense.... 

Sat there watching round after round come through the skin of the helo... SLow motion like..... Every 2 seconds or so another hole would appear.... I even had time to tap my buddy next to me, point up, and get him to see 2 rounds come through.... The landing was so rough, one of the guys bit his tounge so bad he hadda get sutures in it....

After all this died down and back onboard ship, I talked to some other pilots that said my squad and I were lucky to be alive.... Supposedly, the pilot got a medal for this......


----------



## evangilder (Jan 30, 2005)

Wow, that slow motion bit brings back memories. That's some scary shit, Les! At least I was only in training when we went down. If I had been getting shot at while we were spinning done, I probably would have soiled myself.


----------



## lesofprimus (Jan 30, 2005)

I threw up after I climbed outta the back ramp of that POS.......


----------



## evangilder (Jan 30, 2005)

I can imagine. That's friggin intense!


----------



## lesofprimus (Jan 30, 2005)

We actually laugh about it now.... It was the adrenaline's fault....


----------



## evangilder (Jan 30, 2005)

Yep, adrenaline OD. But it is weird how the brain processes things and when you get into a situation like that how things move in slow motion. Maybe it doesn't so much, but that's how our memories process it. Either way,it's a weird experience.


----------



## lesofprimus (Jan 30, 2005)

You know, after all these years, I dont miss the tempo or the threat/danger one bit.... 

I miss my buddies and the closeness...


----------



## evangilder (Jan 30, 2005)

I heard ya. I miss the friends made as well. You form incredible bonds with folks you share those kinds of experiences with. It's funny, I remember the first time I watched Band of Brothers, there was a scene at the end of Day of Days were the Lt is looking down into the city with all the gunfire and flashes. He said something like "If I make it through this, I am going to find myself some place quiet and peaceful to live out the rest of my days". I found it very appropriate, and I identified with it. Obviously, the stuff I saw wasn't quite like that, but after getting shot at and having to look down and make sure you watch where you step, it is nice to sometimes go outside and listen to the silence.


----------



## plan_D (Jan 30, 2005)

You have to give it to those Chinooks though, they can land on no power. The twin rotors act as a wing, and it can safely glide down. RAF pilots have to land them like that, with no power, in training. I've seen it done, it's sweet. 

My dads never been in a Heli crash. Although he nearly was in one when visiting Germany, and one of the generators on the Wessex failed, while over the Black Forest. Absolutely nowhere to land, luckily the other kept going. EXTREMELY lucky because the reason the other had failed was because it was facing the sun and had over-heated. They went to Germany to visit their SAR wing with Hueys. Hueys pissed all over the Wessex with Altitude, they both went up together...the Wessex had to stop (had hit its ceiling), so the pilot rested one of the wheels on the mountain and the Huey just carried on going up and up! 

He did do some gunnery off the back of a Chinook while in Falklands. Hanging on the back ramp looking out for Argies. That's all he says...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 30, 2005)

evangilder said:


> I remember being in a Huey during airbase defense school (ABD), that had the engine experience a "sudden loss of power". More like that phrase you never want to hear while flying "Uh oh". It got pretty quiet, with the exception of the wind through the airframe, and my heart in my ears. I just remember spinning...trees...clear...trees...clear. Then a heavy thud. They say any landing you can walk away from is a good one. Well, we did walk away. My back hurt for awhile after that though.



Its called an autorotation. We practice them everyonce in a while, and have to do them on test flights evertime work is done to the roter blades. Basically you pick a spot, lower the collective, and let the wind turn the blades since the engines are not working. You are falling at about 3000ft per min. It is a really wiered experience to see the ground coming up so quickly. Then when you at about 100 ft you yank up on the collective and pull whatever power you can get out it which slows you down and you slam into the ground hopefully in once piece.

As for the Huey. I love the Huey. I always has been on of my fav aircraft however since flying the Hawk for a few years I will not trade the extra systems on the Hawk anyday. The Hawk was designed off of what was learned about the Huey in Vietnam. How they could make it better. For instance you have 1 engine on a UH-1H Huey if you lose it you go down, on the hawk we have 2 engines, if we lose one, we keep flying. You have one hydraulic pump on the Huey. On the Hawk we have 3. If we lose 1 we keep going. The same is for all systems on the Hawk. She is rugged and pretty much the Huey's daughter.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 30, 2005)

Well I went for the Apache 8)


----------



## lesofprimus (Jan 30, 2005)

OK... I found that pic.. 

We were on exercise and the pilot hadda drop off some mail...... Pretty cool..... Thats about as close to a sub with a camera as I ever got...

(We werent suppose to carry em.. Against orders....)


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 30, 2005)

Cool pic...


----------



## evangilder (Jan 30, 2005)

Adler, I have to admit I laughed when I read your statement that it's weird to see the ground coming up so fast. I don't know why that seemed funny. Having done it once, weird wasn't quite the word I would have used. I guess when you are used to it and know a bit more about what to expect, it's different.


----------



## evangilder (Jan 30, 2005)

That's a really cool pic Les! I like the thumbs up in the foreground.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jan 30, 2005)

That's an awesome pic, les!  What class of boat is that?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 30, 2005)

Yeah great pic there Les. I would love to do some air/sea operations. I think it would be fun. The closest I got to do that was landing at a sea port.

It really is a wiered experience till you get used to it, Even. I remember the first one I did, I was quite scared. I thought we were going to die. Then the next one was easier and then now it is like routine. I remember thought that first time the pilot pulling the engine power control levers back and thinking oh my god we have no power and then feeling my stomach come up through my throat for about a second, and then I felt nothing except for the pressure in my ears and I was like wow this aint bad at all, but then I looked out my window and I see people getting bigger and bigger. Ofcourse when we do it in a test flight we do not go to the ground, we start at like 3000 ft and then regain power at like 500 and pull out and then just fly away.


----------



## evangilder (Jan 30, 2005)

It is probably better for the airframe to not bounce onto the ground like we did. I guess you can get used to it, don't know if I would though. I certainly was not expecting it, and didn't know about autorotations then. I was just glad to be in one piece when we hit the ground. They ended up air-evacing the helo out later that day. I remember watching it go by, slung under a Chinook.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 30, 2005)

Yes I have never been to the ground in one and dont really want to. A lot of people come out of it with back problems and other injuries. You are hitting the ground very fast and hard. That is why we dont do it to the ground. It can hurt you and still destroy the airfame. But I think I would rather be hurt a bit then mangled up in a metal airframe all twisted and dead!


----------



## evangilder (Jan 30, 2005)

Definitely! I remember the first thing that went through my mind when we started spinning down was how much they'd have to ship back to my parents. Funny how thoughts like that happen.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 30, 2005)

I know what you mean, well everyone I will say this here too, just incase you are not posting in the other threads where I posted it. I lose my internet tomorrow morning so this will be the last time I post for a little while propably. This is a good thing and that is as much as I can say. I will see here online again as soon as I get back home! Getting real short now!


----------



## lesofprimus (Jan 30, 2005)

Good Luck Brother... Are u planning on getting out soon?? When is ur EAOS???? Are u gonna be a lifer????


----------



## lesofprimus (Jan 30, 2005)

God all those questions up above looks gay and retarded.....

BTW, thats an LA Class sub...... Nice and roomy inside I can tell u that much...

NOT!!!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 30, 2005)

Alright last post for a couple of weeks now: One thing I can tell you is I have 1 year left and no I am not a lifer. My family is the most important thing to me and I want to have kids with my wife and watch them grow up and not be like my buddy who has 4 kids and 2 of them dont even know who he is, because he is deployed all the time. Anyhow talk to you all soon.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Jan 30, 2005)

I thought that was probably an LA. One of the ones that've obviously already had the foreplanes moved from the fin. Thanks, les.


----------



## lesofprimus (Jan 30, 2005)

NP...... 

Good luck Adler..


----------



## plan_D (Jan 31, 2005)

Yeah, good luck Adler! Safe journey!


----------



## evangilder (Jan 31, 2005)

Adler, have a safe journey home!. God Speed!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 7, 2005)

Woo Hoo, hey everyone I am home now! Just got back this morning! Well I hope to post some great pics of some Blackhawks on our flight out of Iraq. I just have to transfer them all from my laptop to my PC at home.


----------



## cheddar cheese (May 22, 2005)

Ok lets revive this...ummm....I dont know how...well...errr...ok then...Hit me with some stats on the Blackhawk 8)


----------



## plan_D (May 22, 2005)

Just look at the first page, Adler started with stats on the UH-60L.


----------



## HealzDevo (May 24, 2005)

I have said this, and I will say it again, the Apache Longbow AH-64D is the best helicopter in the world I think. Even if it does have problems it is still quite a formidable weapon. I don't know it just appeals to me.


----------



## cheddar cheese (May 24, 2005)

I agree.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 24, 2005)

HealzDevo said:


> I have said this, and I will say it again, the Apache Longbow AH-64D is the best helicopter in the world I think. Even if it does have problems it is still quite a formidable weapon. I don't know it just appeals to me.



It is a great aircraft when it is in the air and a formidilbe weapon but basically other than that it sucks. It is a nightmare to work on and it breaks all the time. Personnally I think they could do better and should do so very soon before it is too late.


----------



## cheddar cheese (May 24, 2005)

Surely the problems will be ironed out though?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 24, 2005)

No I dont see that happening. The airframe is just not strong eneogh anymore. It was fine when it was the original Apache. Plus the systems are too complicated for the aircraft now. It takes 15 minutes just to wind up the weapons systems and if the airconditioners that cool the computers and systems fail then it is lost, you can not work anything because they overheat and then basically all you have is a 2 seat very expensive joy ride.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (May 24, 2005)

yes CC the apache aint exactly new, if they aint worked out the proplems yet, they aint gonna.........


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 24, 2005)

The problems were pretty much solved on the A model but then they go and throw in even more advanced stuff including a glass cockpit into it. It can only go so far. Dont take me wrong it is still the best attack helicopter out there but it is getting old real fast. I dont know how many times we had to go out and rescue apaches in Iraq. I remember one time we flew out the Apache mechanics to fix one that broke at a Foward Operating Base in Iraq and after they got it fixed and they were running up to fly back home, the whole transmission dumped all of its transmission oil out the back of the aircraft. Needless to say the thing did not fly home that day.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Jun 27, 2005)

I voted for the Blackhawk but Mosquitoman was right. If it wasnt for the Huey we wouldnt have had good helicopters today. Besides i like the huey because it was the work horse of Vietnam! Hoorah!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 27, 2005)

I agree I love the Huey. My dad flew the Huey for most of his career in the Army. I wanted Huey's but they made me go Blackhawks. But I have to say she did not dissapoint me, she is a great aircraft!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 27, 2005)

I know Adler you love your Blackhawk, but I'll say the Huey seems a little simpler (obviously). I worked on Hueys since 95' and for the most part, just make sure they're greased, there's oil in the 42 and 90 degree gearboxes, the transmission is in good shape and the engine passes the hitt test and it seem they're gonna fly forever!

When I was in the Navy Resreve there was a unit that had Seahawks right next to my squadron. It seemed these guys always busted hump to keep their birds flying. When my old shop supervisor made Chief, he asked me if I wanted to go over to that squadron. I'm not lazy, but when I seen those guys working all hours to keep those Seahawks up, I said thanks, but no thanks!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 28, 2005)

Oh do not take me wrong. I love the Huey. It is actually what I wanted, but the army would not let me anymore because they are phasing them out.

You are correct the Huey is far more simple and that is what made it a great aircraft. There was not much on it to break and she will deffinatly keep flying for many many more years to come. She is more then likely the best helicopter to ever fly. Hell the first prototype flew in 1954 come on that is 51 years of service all over the world. She is still today the most used aircraft in the world.

The problem with the Seahawk is she based off of the old UH-60A and even in the army they can be a pain to work on. There are just too many systems and the more you have the more that can break. The UH-60L, HH-60L, and the UH-60M that are being built today have been made better from what was learned from the UH-60A and now are much less susceptable to break. They do still break more than the Huey though obviously. I believe the Navy is also getting a newer Seahawk now also.


----------



## Glider (Jul 12, 2005)

The one that I like the most is the Wasp/Scout because they were so overengineered they seemed almost unbreakable. One saying was that if you could pour it and set fire to it, a Wasp would run on it.
Best I think the Lynx takes some beating. Speed, agility and a decent load carrying ability. Could have done a realy good attack version with a little imagination (thinking HueyCobra).


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 12, 2005)

The aircrat that can take the most beating is the UH-1 Huey. You could literally fly her into the ground and she would keep going. There were Huey's in Vietnam that took rockets and kept going. She brought so many people home when they had nothing left. 

Pretty much as long as you take care of a Huey she will take care of you.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jul 12, 2005)

My brother survived a crash in one. A heavy round split the helicopter in 2 at the firewall!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 12, 2005)

Damn. One of our older pilots had a cyclic hardover in one. The other pilot was killed and he got cut pretty bad on the neck. Now he flies Hawks and misses his Huey.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jul 12, 2005)

Can't beat a Huey!


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jul 12, 2005)

Huey's are _the_ definitive Helicopters in my eyes.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jul 12, 2005)

Mine too!


----------



## evangilder (Jul 12, 2005)

I've said it before, J, I will say it again...You get to have all the fun!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jul 12, 2005)

Thanks!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 13, 2005)

I agree with you on that. She may not be the fastest or the most maneuverable or carry the most load but she is a beaut of an aircraft and she will never let you down.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 1, 2005)

Exactly. My Cousins owe it to the Hueys for saving their butts. I had one 2nd cousin to fight at Hamburger Hill, Vietnam. Im going to try and get some information on his service very soon.


----------



## Archangel (Sep 3, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I agree with you on that. She may not be the fastest or the most maneuverable or carry the most load but she is a beaut of an aircraft and she will never let you down.



well..yes  as far as i know.. could a huey take really much hits before going down 





Huey that took some direct hit from mortar rounds April
1970 LZ English

source: http://www.173rdairborne.net/casper6.htm

but still you cans see much damage


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 3, 2005)

Damn! Those must have been some big mortar rounds to do that!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 3, 2005)

Archangel said:


> DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with you on that. She may not be the fastest or the most maneuverable or carry the most load but she is a beaut of an aircraft and she will never let you down.
> ...



Yes I dont know of another helicopter that can take that much damage. A Blackhawk comes pretty close to it only because it has back up systems for its backup systems but even the Apache can be brought down very easily. On an air assault that we did one time one of the Apaches that was covering our aircraft took one round from an AK-47 and it brought it down. Sounds crazy but I assure you it is true, just one lucky shot.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 3, 2005)

Man...I dont think they should get rid of the Hueys.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 3, 2005)

It will still be some time till they get rid of them completely. The National Guard still has them, and the Medivac unit that my buddy is going to at Fort Polk still has Huey's.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 3, 2005)

Thats good to here.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 3, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> On an air assault that we did one time one of the Apaches that was covering our aircraft took one round from an AK-47 and it brought it down. Sounds crazy but I assure you it is true, just one lucky shot.



Dude!


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 3, 2005)

Ok, marking off "Piloting Apaches" off my _Things to do in the Army future list..._


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 3, 2005)

Id mark this on in its place then...being chased around a deserted airfield in a Lotus Exige BY an Apache....


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 3, 2005)

You are one crazy guy CC!


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 3, 2005)

Actually I have schizophrenia, making me two crazy guys.  I forgot the picture anywho:


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 3, 2005)

What???


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 4, 2005)

The Apache is okay when it is in the air, like I said it was a lucky shot. The only that sucks about it is they are very mantenance intensive and break a lot with electrical issues.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 4, 2005)

Now im marking off "Army engineer" off my _List to do in the Army..._

Yeah, ive got a lot of future goals.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

An Army Engineer has nothing to do with fixing Helicopters. Army Engineers build bridges and blow things up just to name a few.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 5, 2005)

Really?! That's awesome! The blowing up things would be my criteria.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

Several of my friends were Engineers in the Marines but they got smart and crossed over the Helicopter World.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 5, 2005)

ohoh, and army engineers make water supplies safe to drink! i learnded me that at the army school's challenge!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

You are right, they do a lot of things.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 5, 2005)

Well as much as they seem to do alot, i dont think ill become an Army Engineer.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

It is a really tough job. I recomend going aviation. It is the best branch.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 5, 2005)

Aviation would be my second choice but im near sighted. Anything beyond 6 feet i have a hard time seeing.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

The army can correct your eyes.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 5, 2005)

Really? How?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

They do laser surgery. It is open for all soldiers but mostly aviation members.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 5, 2005)

Awesome!!! Did you get laser surgery?


----------



## plan_D (Sep 5, 2005)

You can't go into the British forces if you've had laser eye surgery.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Sep 5, 2005)

You can't with the Canadian Forces either, but the strange thing is you can apply for it after you're in, and have DND foot the bill. After that, depending on your job you'll probably be released anyway. Bureaucracy at it's finest.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 5, 2005)

Thats wierd. From what Alder said you can get it in while your in the Army or military branches.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

Yes the Army will front the bill for you to get it done if you are in the Aviation Branch. I do not know about the Navy, Marines, or Airforce p-38 pilot. In the army you can not go into the Aviation Branch if you have already had it done, but you can apply for it after you are already in, and if accepted then you can do it and they will not kick you out. They are sort of doing a study to see the effects of it and flying. One of my pilots has had it done. I would like to, but I dont know if I have eneogh time in the army to get it done.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 5, 2005)

Oh, well if i join im going to get it done. I hate my eyesight right now because i cant see far off.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 5, 2005)

my god, channel 5 at the mo, they've ranked the chinook as only the 8th greatest helicopter ever!!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

Id put it like this:

1. UH-1H Huey
2. UH-60 Blackhawk
3. CH-46 Chinook
4. AH-1 Cobra
5. CH-54 Stallion
6. AH-64 Apache


And from there it is a toss up for me. I change my list regularly but this is also just my opinion. I should put my precious Blackhawk before the Huey but I can not put it before her Grandmother.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 5, 2005)

Nice order.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

The order is debatable but as I said its just an opinion.


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 5, 2005)

I think its great. Although i think the UH-1 supercobra should be up there.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 5, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Id put it like this:
> 
> 1. UH-1H Huey
> 2. UH-60 Blackhawk
> ...



Good list. Not sure id put the Chinook quite that high though.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 5, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> I think its great. Although i think the UH-1 supercobra should be up there.



Well I did not put the UH-1 Supercobra up there because the Super Cobra is not a UH-1 it is a AH-1 and if you look I put the AH-1 Cobra as a general, not any given model, all models as a whole. The UH-1 is the Huey and I should have put UH-1 Huey instead of UH-1H because I should include all models produced since 1954.

And CC I put the Chinook up that high because it has been a work horse since the Vietnam war.


----------



## trackend (Sep 14, 2005)

I took a few clips of the Chinook going through its paces at the BOB show on Sunday Adler


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 14, 2005)

Good stuff. I always hated flying on those lugs though.


----------



## trackend (Sep 14, 2005)

It looks like a bit of a see saw ride having lift at both ends of the aircraft I would have thought it would be quite easy to get motion sick in them Adler


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 14, 2005)

I never got motion sick in them, but I found it very hot and it stank really bad with the exhaust from the engines coming up through the back ramp. Plus everytime I flew in one, I had a hydraulic leak above my head. They say if it is not leaking in 7 spots you dont fly the aircraft.


----------



## trackend (Sep 14, 2005)

And I thought you were joking Adler when you carried a can of WD40 for lubing the weights, tell the truth its for squeaking Jesus bolts


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 14, 2005)

Jesus Bolts! Wow I have not heard those words in a long time!


----------



## P38 Pilot (Sep 15, 2005)

You have a point about the Chinook. Strong, mighty, and useful for carrying around Artillery, etc.


----------



## trackend (Sep 16, 2005)

Sorry Adler Im showing me age, not that I know shit about aviation but I always thought the description was about the best I ever heard for a vital componate on any piece of machinery. Having said that if I was on a helo I think I would say more than just Jesus if it busted.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 16, 2005)

P38 Pilot said:


> You have a point about the Chinook. Strong, mighty, and useful for carrying around Artillery, etc.



It still sucks to fly on them. 



trackend said:


> Sorry Adler Im showing me age, not that I know s**t about aviation but I always thought the description was about the best I ever heard for a vital componate on any piece of machinery. Having said that if I was on a helo I think I would say more than just Jesus if it busted.



No no dont worry. On aircraft like the Huey the Jesus Bolts or Jesus Nuts held the Main Rotor Mast to the Transmission. If the bolt failed or broke you got go and meet jesus. We dont use that term on the Blackhawk.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 19, 2005)

On my expedition this weekend we saw a Merlin fly underneath us. Why didnt it save us


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 22, 2005)

What happened.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 23, 2005)

Nothing, just a routine patrol I think. We all waved but they wouldnt "help" us to the end of our walk


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2005)

Oh I thought something bad had happened.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2005)

Oh I thought something bad had happened.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2005)

Oh I thought something bad had happened.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 24, 2005)

Im seeing triple!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2005)

Damn this is about the 2nd or 3rd time that this happened. It is double and triple posting my posts.


----------



## Nonskimmer (Sep 24, 2005)

Suuuuure.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2005)

Well you know....

No seriously this has done this a couple of times now.


----------



## evangilder (Sep 24, 2005)

There seemed to be a hiccup in the system earlier. I couldn't get back to the home page for a couple of minutes. When I did get back, there were several people that had multiple posts.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2005)

That might be it. Right before it did hte multiple post thing, The site would not refresh.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 25, 2005)

When you post and it says this page is not responding or whatever, dont refresh  quit the site then come back cos thats how multiple posts happen. Im not gonna delete those multiple posts cos doing so would make me a hypocrit


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 25, 2005)

LOL, we know that how you got all your posts.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Sep 25, 2005)

...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 25, 2005)

I wont tell anyone else if you dont....oh shit I already did.


----------



## Burmese Bandit (Dec 7, 2008)

Normally I vote with my head and not with my heart...but since this is my 100th post on the forum...

TA DAAAAH!!! The CH 47 CHINOOK!!!!

AND THAT MAKES ME A SENIOR MEMBER IN JUST OVER 48 HOURS!!!!!!!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 7, 2008)

Why do you choose the CH-47? We have them here at the airfield, and we like to call them Shithooks.


----------



## parsifal (Dec 7, 2008)

Im not one to whinge too often....but there is no Sea King in this poll.

For me ther are only two choppers.....westland wessex, and westland sea king...are there any others????


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 7, 2008)

Yes a UH-1, a hell of a lot more dependable than either one....


----------



## HookerTF160 (Dec 8, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Why do you choose the CH-47? We have them here at the airfield, and we like to call them Shithooks.



That`s a term of endearment for us hookers


----------



## Burmese Bandit (Dec 8, 2008)

Why? Because that's the first big one I flew in!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 8, 2008)

HookerTF160 said:


> That`s a term of endearment for us hookers



Yeah us Blackhawk guys do not really mind you guys. We just hate the Apache guys, but I am sure that you guys do not like them either! 

By the way here is a pic of me with my bird (this pic is of course several years old...):


----------



## tomo pauk (Jan 16, 2009)

Voted for the Mi-8; it may be the only chopper for the armed force if needed.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 17, 2009)

tomo pauk said:


> Voted for the Mi-8; it may be the only chopper for the armed force if needed.



Explain what you mean by that?


----------



## tomo pauk (Jan 18, 2009)

Sure 
It is a cargo 'copter, then ground attack (with up to 6 ATGMs), ESM/ECM machine...For the more complete list of variants:
Mil Mi-8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## parsifal (Jan 18, 2009)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Yes a UH-1, a hell of a lot more dependable than either one....



I was kidding, and you are right, I do like the UH-1, for a lot of its the choppers that we worked with. Ive spent some time in and around the two i chose, and sort of see them as best friends rather than pieces of equipment. I tend to get a bit that way I guess


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 18, 2009)

tomo pauk said:


> Sure
> It is a cargo 'copter, then ground attack (with up to 6 ATGMs), ESM/ECM machine...For the more complete list of variants:
> Mil Mi-8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I can name several helicopters that can do more than that and better.

Mi-8 is not a bad aircraft, but I would seriously doubt it being the best.


----------



## tomo pauk (Jan 18, 2009)

From the option pool, AH-64, AH-1 and OH-53 can't haul the cargo, so those aren't the choice for the best in my eyes.
Further, Stallion and Chinook don't make any good gunships, so those are no choices.
Lynx, Hind and Huey are decent ships, yet Mi-8 surpasses them in cargo carrying ability.
Finally, that leaves is with UH-60L and Mi-8 as far as options from this poll go. I've picked Hip because of greater cargo cabin and rear doors (ramp in latest version). My guess is that price is also lower.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 18, 2009)

tomo pauk said:


> From the option pool, AH-64, AH-1 and OH-53 can't haul the cargo, so those aren't the choice for the best in my eyes.
> Further, Stallion and Chinook don't make any good gunships, so those are no choices.
> Lynx, Hind and Huey are decent ships, yet Mi-8 surpasses them in cargo carrying ability.
> Finally, that leaves is with UH-60L and Mi-8 as far as options from this poll go. I've picked Hip because of greater cargo cabin and rear doors (ramp in latest version). My guess is that price is also lower.



You make a good argument for the Mi-8, I will still take the UH-60 over the Mi-8 any day. Here is why:

1. UH-60 is more survivable.

2. UH-60 might have a smaller cabin, but due to its more powerful engines can still carry more cargo (in weight).

Mi-8: 3,000 kg (6,600 lb) max. on internal and external loads.
UH-60: 1,200 kg (2,646 lb) internally or 4,082 kg (9,000 lb) externally.

3. UH-60 can carry a larger weapons platform, including 16 Hellfire missiles and 2 Mini Guns.

4. Mi-8 is underpowered.

5. UH-60 will outperform a Mi-8 any day.

Of course in the end it does not matter. The two aircraft perform completely different roles.


----------



## tomo pauk (Jan 18, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> You make a good argument for the Mi-8, I will still take the UH-60 over the Mi-8 any day. Here is why:
> 
> 1. UH-60 is more survivable.
> 
> ...



I'd say that basic role for both of them is to haul the cargo; too bad Cougar is not included in the poll.


----------



## Arsenal VG-33 (Jan 18, 2009)

tomo pauk said:


> I'd say that basic role for both of them is to haul the cargo; _too bad Cougar is not included in the poll_.




...or the Gazelle and the Puma. I've seen the Puma at several Paris airshows and I was very impressed with it, damn fast too! Both the Gazelle and the Puma have had long service.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 18, 2009)

Arsenal VG-33 said:


> ...or the Gazelle and the Puma. I've seen the Puma at several Paris airshows and I was very impressed with it, damn fast too! Both the Gazelle and the Puma have had long service.


Both true, but both have had issues with rotor hub and rotor blade life. Additionally, they could be electrical nightmares. I've been around a Gazelle and worked on A Stars - good birds but they ain't a Huey.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 18, 2009)

tomo pauk said:


> *Please explain why.*



It is the way the aircraft are designed. The structure and the components. The UH-60 has backups for the backups for the backups and is made from better materials that are made better to withstand ballistics.

I am basing this from experience working with both aircraft.



tomo pauk said:


> *Latest versions of Mi-8 can carry 4500kg, so Hip wins by a narrow margin.*



The UH-60M which is entering service now and equipped with the latest T700-GE-701D is also capable of loads of up to 4,500 kg (9,920 lb).



tomo pauk said:


> *Mi-8 carries ATGMs, 12,7mm, unguided rockets. So at least they're even.*
> 
> UH-60 can be equipped with:
> 
> ...


----------



## Lucky13 (Jan 18, 2009)

Huey! Far from being the best, but it'll always be the "best" on my list....8) Sounds like a heli should anyway!


----------



## davparlr (Jan 18, 2009)

I voted for the UH-1 only because it initiated a whole new method of warfare.

I don't know much about helicopters exept that they fly using mirrors and smoke.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 18, 2009)

davparlr said:


> I voted for the UH-1 only because it initiated a whole new method of warfare.
> 
> I don't know much about helicopters exept that they fly using mirrors and smoke.



No they are just so ugly that the earth repels them!


----------



## mkloby (Jan 18, 2009)

I'd vote for the V-22 if she was up there, but I'm probably just a little bit biased!

Dave - if you think helos fly using smoke and mirrors, check out the flight control system for the Osprey


----------



## cougar32d (Jan 20, 2009)

Gotta love the Blackhawk,hands down the best.(In my humble opinion)


----------



## SoD Stitch (Jan 21, 2009)

tomo pauk said:


> Further, Stallion and *Chinook* don't make any good gunships, so those are no choices.



Don't make good gunships? You ever heard of the ACH-47? Twin 20mm cannons PLUS 2.75" rocket launchers PLUS chin-mounted 40mm grenade launcher PLUS three (3) pintle-mounted .50-cal's, PLUS extra ammo for all of the above. If that's not a well-armed gunship, I don't known what is.


----------



## tomo pauk (Jan 21, 2009)

Gotta admit I haven't seen that bird before  

Care to say anything more (service-carreer, number used etc)?


----------



## SoD Stitch (Jan 21, 2009)

tomo pauk said:


> Gotta admit I haven't seen that bird before
> 
> Care to say anything more (service-carreer, number used etc)?



They were something of an "experiment" by the US Army during the Vietnam War; UH-1's CH-47's were getting shot at by the NVA the VC, and the Army decided to do something about it, so they came up with the ACH. It came as quite a surprise to the enemy when they saw a supposedly unarmed transport helicopter headed their way, and then all of a sudden the "easy target" opened up on them with 20mm and rockets. However, the Army decided to discontinue conversions of existing CH-47's into ACH-47's because they needed all of the _Chinooks_ for transport duties instead of gunships. Also, it was about this time that the AH-1 Cobra gunship was coming on-line, obviating the need for an armed version of the _Chinook_. Only four examples of the ACH-47 were ever made, and only one survives today. "Easy Money" has been restored, and is on display at Redstone Arsenal, Huntsville, Alabama.


----------



## fly boy (Jan 21, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> No you are correct the Army gave up on the Comanche. They decided to stay with the AH-64D Longbow, basically because it was cheaper.
> 
> Speaking of mines though. We have an interesting mod that we can attach to our Blackhawks. We only have a couple of them in our unit, my aircraft happens to be one of them. It is called the Volcano System and it dispenses mines. This basically converts the Blackhawk into a mine field layer. I dont know too much about the system because I have never actually used it and have only seen it installed once. All I know is that carries 950 Gator anit personell mines or anti vehical mines. Still it is a pretty quick way to lay mine fields if you had to.
> 
> Here are some interesting pics I took today of an AH-64A Apache at my camp in Iraq. It is unusual in that it is painted grey. Grey is better then the standard Green because it allows the aircraft to blend into the horizon better. Virtually every nation paints there aircraft grey inluding our Airforce, Navy, and Marines. We tried to get our Blackhawks painted Gray before we left Germany but it did not happen. Too bad I think it would have looked pretty sweet.



wouldn't it set the mines off from rotor wash?


----------



## parsifal (Jan 21, 2009)

The new Sikorsky CH-148, being developed as a successor to the Sea King looks intersting. Does anyone know anything about this bird????

I do know that the propototype ha just completed its first flight trials, and is being developed for the Canadians a a replacement for their long serving Sea Kings. The aircraft has so far managed low speed handling tasks, including forward flight of speeds of 30 knots, as well as some sideward and rearward manouevres

Sikorsky will build 28 CH-148s for the Canadians. It is basically an extension of the S-92R helo into the H-92 TM product series. One of its features is a so-called fully digital fly by wire system (?????) designed to improve "manouverability, safety and effectiveness".

Thats all i could find so far....


----------



## Rocketeer (Jan 21, 2009)

My goodness such a small showing for the Chinook!!!! You are having a larffff! It is a fantastic aircraft and does everything demanded of it and more....that said, asking what is the best helicopter is like saying what is the best fixed wing aircraft...horses for courses.....CH47 makes a poor CAS aircraft but a superb SH aircraft....AH64D makes a poor SH aircraft but great CAS....


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 21, 2009)

SoD Stitch said:


> Don't make good gunships? You ever heard of the ACH-47? Twin 20mm cannons PLUS 2.75" rocket launchers PLUS chin-mounted 40mm grenade launcher PLUS three (3) pintle-mounted .50-cal's, PLUS extra ammo for all of the above. If that's not a well-armed gunship, I don't known what is.



The ACH-47 however was not that successful as far as I understand. Only a handful were built.



fly boy said:


> wouldn't it set the mines off from rotor wash?



No they are specially designed for that. They are all loaded into a special dispenser on both sides of the helicopter. The Blackhawk flies low to the ground and then blows them at preset intervals and patterns. They then fall to the ground and you have a mine field.

My first Blackhawk assigned to me was a Volcano Bird.


----------



## klarmie (Jan 21, 2009)

My dad spent 26 years in ARMY aviation, started with the Caribou and ended with the Blackhawk, with many years in the Chinook and Huey in between. 


I found a link about the ACH47's


They Called Them "Guns A Go-Go"


BTW...I voted for the Chinook...How many other Helicopters can self-deploy from Colorado to England?


----------



## Graeme (Jan 22, 2009)

Dorr and Bishop, (Vietnam Air Warfare 1996-pp65), describe the tragic and bizarre accident that claimed one ACH-47A. A mounting pin on a 20mm cannon separated during a firing run, causing the gun to elevate and obliterate the forward rotors. All the crew were killed.


----------



## tomo pauk (Jan 22, 2009)

parsifal said:


> The new Sikorsky CH-148, being developed as a successor to the Sea King looks intersting. Does anyone know anything about this bird????
> 
> I do know that the propototype ha just completed its first flight trials, and is being developed for the Canadians a a replacement for their long serving Sea Kings. The aircraft has so far managed low speed handling tasks, including forward flight of speeds of 30 knots, as well as some sideward and rearward manouevres
> 
> ...



IIRC it was called Helibus (the S-92) when offered for the US. It seems like top notch multipurpose bird


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 22, 2009)

klarmie said:


> BTW...I voted for the Chinook...How many other Helicopters can self-deploy from Colorado to England?



Its also the only helicopter that can eat itself alive in flight...

We hawk guys had a nice friendly love hate relationship with the hookers.


----------



## klarmie (Jan 22, 2009)

here's another link to the Chinook....kinda a cool website I think.


CH-47 Chinook helicopters and Company H, 4th Battalion, 7th Aviation Regiment - "Pegasus".


----------



## B-17engineer (Oct 17, 2009)

I voted for the Hind. I just love the look of the aircraft. Wasn't the Apache developed in consequence to the appearance of the Hind?


----------



## tomo pauk (Oct 17, 2009)

I'd say that plethora of Warsaw pact tanks was the raison d'etre of AH-64.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 17, 2009)

B-17engineer said:


> I voted for the Hind. I just love the look of the aircraft. Wasn't the Apache developed in consequence to the appearance of the Hind?



No the Apache was developed to be an improvement over the Cobra.



tomo pauk said:


> I'd say that plethora of Warsaw pact tanks was the raison d'etre of AH-64.



Ditto, the Army wanted to have an attack aircraft capable of combating tanks, but due to the Key West Agreement was not allowed to have fixed wing aircraft. Hens the need for a attack helicopter.


----------



## B-17engineer (Oct 17, 2009)

Oh, thanks!


----------



## imalko (Oct 17, 2009)

Mi-24 is the only attack helicopter capable of carrying troops, which makes it quite unique.


----------



## B-17engineer (Oct 17, 2009)

Thanks Igor! I find the helicopter really really interesting! Would love to build a model of it one day


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 17, 2009)

imalko said:


> Mi-24 is the only attack helicopter capable of carrying troops, which makes it quite unique.



No it is not. The MH-60L Direct Action Penetrator (DAP) can also carry passengers as well as armed with up to 16 Hellfire missiles, 2 mini-guns or an assortment of missiles and rockets.


----------



## wheelsup_cavu (Oct 17, 2009)

A little OT maybe, but wasn't the Hind the helicopter they used in 
the movie Red Dawn ?


Wheels


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 17, 2009)

I think the Huey gunships could carry a few troops as well, though not as many as the Blackhawk.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 17, 2009)

wheelsup_cavu said:


> A little OT maybe, but wasn't the Hind the helicopter they used in
> the movie Red Dawn ?
> 
> 
> Wheels



I believe so. It has been used in several movies however. I love that movie though. It is corny and a typical 80s movie, but it has cult status for me.


----------



## wheelsup_cavu (Oct 17, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I believe so. It has been used in several movies however. I love that movie though. It is corny and a typical 80s movie, but it has cult status for me.


I loved it too when it came out. 
If you remember it was the first time Jennifer Grey and Patrick Swayze worked together.
I was 19 at the time and it tapped into the sentiments I felt at the time.
The "evil empire" and all that.

It's being remade for a 2010 release too.
The Chinese and Russians are the "bad guys" this time.
Red Dawn (2010)
I personally don't see it doing that well.
We have a new boogeyman these days.


Wheels


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 18, 2009)

What the heck, is Hollywood redoing every movie ever done now?


----------



## syscom3 (Oct 18, 2009)

AH-56 Cheyenne. Obviously not the best, and it can be considered a failure of sorts. But most people haven't heard of it, and it was a stepping stone to "better" attack helicopter design. I personally consider it among the McNamara era failures that gave the DOD a black eye.

Its wiki, but it offers a good overview:
AH-56 Cheyenne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## imalko (Oct 18, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> No it is not. The MH-60L Direct Action Penetrator (DAP) can also carry passengers as well as armed with up to 16 Hellfire missiles, 2 mini-guns or an assortment of missiles and rockets.


 
Never heard of it, so I had to google that one up. Looks interesting, here's what I found after a quick search: MH-60L Direct Action Penetrator (DAP) / AH-60L

As I understood it is used only by one unit - US Army's 160th Special Operation Aviation Regiment - so it can not be compared with widespread use of Mi-24. Also it appears that it can't carry troops and weapons in action simultaneously (or at least it is not recommended to do so) in the same way as Mi-24 is capable of. I find this quote particulary interesting: 



> In the Direct Action role, the DAP would not normally be used as a primary transport for troops or supplies because of high gross weight limits.



One could argue that this is not in fact an dedicated attack helicopter (which Mi-24 is), but rather transport helicopter modified for attack role, which could be done more or less with many other types of transport helicopters. But, if one wishes to be exclusive about it then yes MH-60L can carry troops and act as attack helicopter. Something similar was done with Mi-8 during wars in former Yugoslavia I believe.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 18, 2009)

syscom3 said:


> AH-56 Cheyenne. Obviously not the best, and it can be considered a failure of sorts. But most people haven't heard of it, and it was a stepping stone to "better" attack helicopter design. I personally consider it among the McNamara era failures that gave the DOD a black eye.
> 
> Its wiki, but it offers a good overview:
> AH-56 Cheyenne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



It is an interesting aircraft. I got to see one of them at the Army Aviation Museum at Fort Rucker about 20 year ago.



imalko said:


> Never heard of it, so I had to google that one up. Looks interesting, here's what I found after a quick search: MH-60L Direct Action Penetrator (DAP) / AH-60L
> 
> As I understood it is used only by one unit - US Army's 160th Special Operation Aviation Regiment - so it can not be compared with widespread use of Mi-24. Also it appears that it can't carry troops and weapons in action simultaneously (or at least it is not recommended to do so) in the same way as Mi-24 is capable of. I find this quote particulary interesting:
> 
> ...



Yes it is only used by one unit the 160th. I have a friend who flies them. 

It is a dedicated attack aircraft it can carry troops as well. It was chosen over other more traditional attack aircraft (Cobra and Apache) for use by the 160th. The reason I include it is because it has the equipment and instruments to be a dedicated attack aircraft. For instance I use to crew the Blackhawk (regular utility version of the same aircraft) and we could mount rockets, guns etc to the aircraft, but that would only make it a transport/gunship (similar to what the US Army did with the Huey in Vietnam). We did not have the avionics and equipment to be a dedicated attack aircraft. The DAP does, making it more than just a transport/gunship.


----------



## schwarzpanzer (Oct 24, 2009)

OK this might sound perverted, but I just lurve the UH-1 Iroquois/Huey (the single-engined one, not the twin versions, or the longnosed variants). For me, it's the sound and shape - just something about it.

I also love the Hind, the later variants with the exhaust supressors, but not the fixed cannon.

I also love the Ka-52, esp the Erdogan and the HueyCobra and Hog.

- and yes, of course DerAdler, the Blackhawk!

However, I dislike the Apache and Havok.


----------



## klarmie (Oct 29, 2009)

Cheyenne................................


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 30, 2009)

How was the Cheyanne the best Helicopter?

It was only a prototype, was never put into production, was never used outside of test flights, and was passed over by the AH-64 Apache?

Seriously? I can understand if you say it is your favorite, but it certainly was not the best...


----------



## klarmie (Oct 30, 2009)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> How was the Cheyanne the best Helicopter?
> 
> It was only a prototype, was never put into production, was never used outside of test flights, and was passed over by the AH-64 Apache?
> 
> Seriously? I can understand if you say it is your favorite, but it certainly was not the best...



I already voted once ....just thought someone might not know what it looked liked......not showing any preference.

Derailling/hijacking was an honest mistake


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 30, 2009)

Don't worry you did not derail or hijack anything. I just thought you were saying it is the best, and I was asking why you thought that.

Nothing else...


----------



## imalko (Nov 15, 2009)

B-17engineer said:


> Thanks Igor! I find the helicopter really really interesting! Would love to build a model of it one day



Here are few photos just for you Harry - Mi-24s of Czech Air Force....


----------



## chuckn49 (Apr 17, 2010)

At the risk of being laughed at and though it is not listed, I would put in a vote for the OH-6. It was a wonderful, tough, maneuverable and very crashable little bird loved by its pilots.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 18, 2010)

I certainly agree that it is a great helicopter. I used to fly with someone who had quite a bit of experience with them with the SOAR. He love it. The only reason I would not vote for it as best, is because it was very limited in what it could do. Great fun chopper though!


----------



## tyrodtom (Sep 8, 2010)

I was surprised the OH-6 wasn't even on the list.
In what way do you consider it limited ?

In it's day we thought it was a pretty great little bird. Small target, very manuverable, great acceleration, it pioneered some great crash survival ideas.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 8, 2010)

tyrodtom said:


> I was surprised the OH-6 wasn't even on the list.
> In what way do you consider it limited ?
> 
> In it's day we thought it was a pretty great little bird. Small target, very manuverable, great acceleration, it pioneered some great crash survival ideas.



It is a pretty great little bird as you call it, but it is limited in payload, armament and capability.


----------



## mikewint (Sep 8, 2010)

eagle, as an "old timer" our first helo in vietnam was the old H-34 kingbee. the pilots, mostly VNAF loved them for that big 32-cylinder engine between them and ground fire. and it was tough. riddled with holes and cylinders blown it still flew home.
being tall you could hover against a steep hill on one wheel and not hit anything with the blades. they were old, filthy, full of holes which the VN mech had cut to get to parts and they leaked pink hydralic fluid constantly. there was at least two cases on board for each flight. the single door left it blind on the left and the mechs had fitted it with an old .30 machine gun hung by bungee cords


----------



## tyrodtom (Sep 8, 2010)

It was a light observation helicopter, not intended to carry cargo. But it could airlift another downed OH-6, thank God, we never had to , because that's way into overload, overtorque territory.
Armed with a minigun and a doorgunner, it was far from toothless.
Even with the doors off and the minigun on the side it would still top 110 knots, slicked up with doors and no minigun, you could add 10-15 knots. The only thing faster at the time in the Army's inventory was the Cobra and the Chinook. 

It was a far better chopper than the OH-58 the Army tried to replace it with.


----------



## mikewint (Sep 8, 2010)

this is what we called a "loach" the kid in black is a VC deserter the goodie bag is all the stuff he got from us


----------



## tyrodtom (Sep 8, 2010)

That and the OH-23 Hiller was what the OH-6 replaced. They were long gone by the time I got there in 70.
I wonder how the Army come up with those OH numbers. The OH-6 replaced the OH-13 and 23, then it was replaced by the OH-58. Kind of confusing.
I guess i've got a emotional attachment to the Hughes and always considered the OH-6 THE LOACH, but I guess it does have a ancestor.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 9, 2010)

tyrodtom said:


> It was a light observation helicopter, not intended to carry cargo. But it could airlift another downed OH-6, thank God, we never had to , because that's way into overload, overtorque territory.
> Armed with a minigun and a doorgunner, it was far from toothless.
> Even with the doors off and the minigun on the side it would still top 110 knots, slicked up with doors and no minigun, you could add 10-15 knots. The only thing faster at the time in the Army's inventory was the Cobra and the Chinook.



Like I said, it is a great aircraft. The fact that it is still used to day by the SOAR is proof to that. That is also why it was included in the poll. 

I will admit that I am biased however and that is because I was a UH-60 crew dog. 



tyrodtom said:


> It was a far better chopper than the OH-58 the Army tried to replace it with.



I will completely agree with you on that. I was flying formation with an OH-58D into Iraq that was too weighted down by its armament. Blew its chin bubble out when test firing the .50 Cal...


----------



## Glider (Sep 9, 2010)

One other contender for those not on the list is the Sea King. Very advanced for its time and served in a lot of nations in the most telling environments, at sea.


----------



## mikewint (Sep 9, 2010)

once recon teams had located targets, company sized raiding parties (hatchet forces) would land, sweep, and destroy the target.
we used the larger chinooks to get in and out with Huey gunships in support
I'm the pretty one


----------



## mikewint (Sep 9, 2010)

chinooks were also used to do a lot of hauling. these coming into Nha Trang are carrying the Bob hope show
SF "perks" backstage "guards"
Bob and Carol Baker. I tried to stay close in case she need medical help


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2010)

For anyone who wishes to take a peak, here is a thread of Helo pics that I have taken from my time when I was in the military as a Blackhawk Crew Chief.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/personal-gallery/adlers-helicopter-pics-6068.html

There are also plenty of other Helo pics in this thread as well.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/personal-gallery/military-memories-5408.html


----------



## mikewint (Sep 10, 2010)

eagle, very cool, thanks for the pics. i, of course have special fondness for the hueys


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2010)

mikewint said:


> eagle, very cool, thanks for the pics. i, of course have special fondness for the hueys



I do as well. I grew up with them as my father flew them. As a kid in the summer time, I would go and hang out at the hanger sitting in the cockpit with his flight helmet pretending to fly. Unfortunately when I joined the Army it was the Blackhawk and not the Huey (which I also do not mind, the Blackhawk is an amazing helicopter).


----------



## mikewint (Sep 10, 2010)

another "neat helo from vietnam the CH-54 skycrane at Da Nang airbase
one of the many "great ideas" we were asked to evaluate. from the USAF: "instant LZ" old 10,000lb bombs left over from WWII. fly them out where you want to land, drop them, instant LZ. while the CH-54 had plenty of lift trying to fly, aim, and drop with precision was a failure. think we tried about 10 without ever geting the LZ where we wanted


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 10, 2010)

Dam, that's one big bomb!


----------



## tyrodtom (Sep 10, 2010)

They also tried the same with a C-130, by pushing it out on the door rollers then retarded by a parachute.
With a about 6 foot pipe on the front with the fuse on the end made it explode above ground, a super daisy cutter. 
I think the problem with the helicopter was it had to drop from so high to be able to escape the blast ,it couldn't get any precision.
The C130 could come in much lower, the parachute slowed the fall, and the C130 accelerated away. We may think of C-130s as slow, but they could go well over 300 kts.
I knew of a few firebases cleared that way, I don't know exactly where they wanted them, but they didn't seem so badly placed to me.


----------



## mikewint (Sep 11, 2010)

Getting bombs where you wanted them was always a problem. the helos had no bombsite so it was by guess and by golly probably either to far or to near a treeline. 
even for dedicated bombers it was probamatical. Running BDA after an arclight also fell to us. this is the result of two B-52 strikes. they were supposed to hit the trees along the river


----------



## tyrodtom (Sep 12, 2010)

Looks like they hit everything except the trees by the river.


----------



## mikewint (Sep 14, 2010)

No one has posted in a while so my favorite the Huey
1. On the beach at Na Trang inventing what would eventually be called air assault. here using ladders
2. Trying the same technique in the jungle where a normal LZ was not available. ladders were very difficult to use and impossible for wounded. it was hard enough just to keep yourself in place.
3. 2nd we tried a bosons chair which also proved difficult to hang on to and several of our guys turned turtle and fell out. Eventually we used "strings" two cables clipped onto the big rings on a para harness. what a thrill ride. this is over the A Shau
4. Strings over Co Roc a large heavily fortified mountian just over the border in Cambodia. there were at least two brigades plus many artillary companies here. the arty pieces were emplaced in tunnels. they rolled them out, fired, and rolled them back in.
5. Probably my best pic of the war. coming into BMT i snopped this pic of the lead helo just as all hell broke loose and we took fire from a camoed .51. look near the left bottom skid. i actually caught a tracer round coming up out of the jungle


----------



## Tangopilot89 (Jun 25, 2011)

I'm going to say the Apache AH1 (the British Army Air Corps) purely because from a book I read on Apache operations in the Middle East, and the rescue attempt into Jugroom Fort. For me, that was an awesome demonstration of what it could do in the hands of very brave and gifted pilots. The book is 'Apache' by Ed Macy, one of those pilots involved.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6qHcd4imKk_


----------



## Mustang nut (Jun 25, 2011)

I was watching a Chinook and I think an Apache doing some sort of exercise last week, like a 15 minute ariel ballet I dont know what it was all about but what an awesome sight.

I vote for the huey


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 26, 2011)

The problem with the Apache is it is too limited. Great for attack (the best in the world in my opinion), but what else are you going to do with it. You can take other aircraft (Blackhawk, Huey, etc) and do attack, cargo, transport, recon, etc.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jun 26, 2011)

Sorry I just stumbled across this one, but great pics Mike.


----------



## parsifal (Jun 28, 2011)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> The problem with the Apache is it is too limited. Great for attack (the best in the world in my opinion), but what else are you going to do with it. You can take other aircraft (Blackhawk, Huey, etc) and do attack, cargo, transport, recon, etc.



I have absolutely no experience with the apaches, but our military was always envious as hell of you yanks. They pack an awsome punch

I had one of those stupid flight sim games, specializing on the Apache. Not sure if it was ever used historically, but you could load Hellfir missiles and go tank hunting over iraq.......this was post 1991, but pre2002. The thing was awesome, but vulnerable to SAMs and flak. Best technique, hug the ground and use pop and drop tactics to take out the flak position with the chain gun, before dropping flars and running

as I said its just a game


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 28, 2011)

The Apache is great for killing tanks and the attack role. No one can deny that. We would have them as escorts and support when we would fly air assaults with our Blackhawks. Saw them light up some stuff with the 30mm, very impressive.


----------



## Sydhuey (Jul 1, 2011)

This is a subject I can talk about for ages, I've worked on helicopters for more than 30 years now and I agree with DerAdlerIstGelandet , you can't go past the Black Hawk, I am trained on 13 differant Helicopters (B204-UH1-B, B205-UH1-D/H, B212-UH1-N, B412, B214ST, B206-OH58, B206L, B407, Sikorsky S-70 Black Hawk, S-76, S-92, Eurocopter AS332 and CH47 Chinook and worked on 6 other types, B214B,S-61,AS330, AS365, Lynx(naval), AW139, I have also had contact with Mil8/17 and Mil 24 operators.
my opinions

Best battlefield assault/utility- UH-60 Black Hawk, great machine just about indestructable, the latest models UH-60M 2050HP FADEC engines, glass cockpit with 4 MFD's(multi function displays), the family refined to a fine helo without comparison (what Australia should have got to replace existing Black Hawks instead of bloody usless MRH90- 14 of 46 delivered and still not accepted into service yet! though rumor has it Australia may yet get 17 UH-60M's for spec ops role as the MRH-90 can't do it!!!), the MH-60M of the 160th (night stalkers) has the 2750 hp engines of the S-92 in it, radar, flir, inflight refuel the ability to be configured as DAP's (Direct Action Penetrator) gunships with 30mm cannons and rocket pods. my dream machine! (I assembled the first Black Hawk delivered to Australia in 1988 and was an engineer/crewman on them for the next 6 years )

Best heavy lift -CH47 Chinook , the F model with similar avionics to the UH-60M and with high horspower FADEC engines , just gets better with each model, though the CH53-K will be one to watch. Though everyone should have half a dozen Mil-26's for super heavy lift , cheap (less than the price of a new UH-60M), can lift 20,000kg but not that reliable and just too big for a war zone unless lost of gunships about for protection.

Best Gunship/Tank killer- AH-64 Apache , the pre emenent gunship in the west (what Australia should have got instead of Tiger, Tiger only used by Germany,France,Spain and Australia, 18 of 22 delivered and only has limited operational status!!, Apache used by US, UK, Netherlands, Isreal, Egypt, UAE, Saudi, Singapore, Japan, Greece, Taiwan and on order maybe by South Korea and Thailand.

Best light recon/spec ops -OH6 little bird pilots love them , can be a bugger to work on but more ruggered than the OH58/206 series

Best naval helo Small-Lynx new models great machines older models with Gem engines absolutly gutless in hot and high conditions,CTS-800 engine much better, one of the most user unfriendly helicopters i've worked on great at its role but I hate it. Good machine in Europe don't try and operate in the tropics or desert

Best naval helo Medium/Large- SH-60 Sea Hawk family, like the Black Hawk family matured into a bullet proof machine tried and reliable (thank god Australia saw sence and got the MH-60R to replace out existing Sea Hawks and not the NH-90, the government learnt there lesson with the army's MRH-90 and are now stuck with them)

UH-1 family , The mighty Huey weather a UH-1H with one engine or the UH-1N /212 or 412 with twin pac a great reliable work horse , bit long in the tooth but held in fond memories with any one who has been around them ( I was trained on them in 1982 and still work on 212 and 412's)

Mil 24 Hind- one of the biggest con jobs the Russians pulled on the west fast and heavily armed but not that manouverable and cannot hover with full fuel and weapons load must do running takoffs , cannot do hide and popups like western helos

Mil 8/17- what a truck reliable cheap and good hot and high performance , build by Russians so can be easily maintained by semi skilled countries (ie third world), throw away helo , designed for war use 6 months lose it or throw away , ok for third world countries that dont fly much not good for western countries were machines are kept 20 plus years.

CH53 - good machine the K model will be a beaut, similar cockpit to S-92 with 5 MFD's and 3 huge high HP FADEC engines the Marines deserve good equip.

AH-1 Cobra family , the start of the Gunship era getting old in the tooth though the Zulu model is still lethal, don't get in fromt of a Marine in a Whiskey or Zulu Cobra!

AS332 Super Puma- Good jack of all trades helo not as good as Black Hawk in assault or spec ops role , but better general people carrier, you can do just about any role in a Super Puma but it is not the best in any role, I have operated them on UN support work and they performed very well.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 1, 2011)

Thanks for the post. How did you like being a crew chief on the UH-60? I crewed and repaired them for 6 years. A wonderful aircraft.


----------



## Sydhuey (Jul 1, 2011)

My absolute favorite helo, I'm mostly on S-92 now which has its faults but is a good chopper but the S-70(UH-60) is the bees knees, the Australian defence force don't run Crew Chief's like the US only the Chinook has a Flight Engineer on it the Black Hawks run 2 x loadmasters (glorified gunners with no technical abilities) bloody stupid idea , the helo breaks and you sit around waiting for the engineers to turn up , even something like a chip they can't look at -wait for an engineer to be flown in or drive in to do the work, just about all my flying on the Black Hawk was during testing , GPS trials , Mag 58 gun trials(M240) ( we ran the first Mag 58's on Black Hawks in 88 and most Black Hawk operators have adopted it as the standard MG fit much better gun than the M-60), Fast rope and rapelling, ESSS trials etc when they needed a techo on board not walk on ballast (loadmaster), also a few excersises etc when short of loadmasters.
The reason the Army don't run techos on the crews is when the Army took over all the Helo's in 1989 there was a shortage of techo's and they didn't want to loose anymore to aircrew so went with 2 x loadmasters, the Airforce was going to run 1 x Flight Engineer and 1 x loadmaster as on the Chinook, but because of the shortage they stuck with 2 x Loadmasters and no mechanical capability on board.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 1, 2011)

Yeah I think the idea of having a mechanic as a crew chief is much better. If we had some kind of problem I could atleast look at it (might need parts flown out or something, but I would at least have an idea). I have over 1600 hours crew time in the 60. We used M-60D's but have since converted to the 240s.


----------

