# Tensions Rising - N. Korea fires on Yeonpyeong



## Pong (Nov 23, 2010)

Tensions are boiling over in Korea as the North fires artillery into the island of Yeonpyeong.

N. Korea fires on S. Korea

So far, 13 S. Korean military personnel are injured, along with two civilians but there is however, one fatality. Let's just hope this doesn't get out of hand.


----------



## mudpuppy (Nov 23, 2010)

I just saw a brief report on this and it gives me a bad feeling. 
Derek


----------



## Shinpachi (Nov 23, 2010)

Living next to Korea, strangely, I feel no tensions at all.

I wonder why South has not destroyed the North's batteries at least immediately to stop further bombardment before complaining on media.

As long as I know, the Koreans have never made war by themselves in their history.


----------



## Torch (Nov 23, 2010)

Me thinks NK is asking for a good a** kicking....


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 23, 2010)

I also heard over the radio that SK is asking the US to stage nuclear weapons on SK soil. This would be the first time since the early 1990s, when they were officially removed. Sounds like posturing on their part though.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 23, 2010)

You can't reason with a mad man.


----------



## evangilder (Nov 23, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> I also heard over the radio that SK is asking the US to stage nuclear weapons on SK soil. This would be the first time since the early 1990s, when they were officially removed. Sounds like posturing on their part though.



While I can certainly understand their concerns, I worry that something like this could escalate the tensions that are already pretty high.


----------



## mikewint (Nov 23, 2010)

As the old, old, saying goes "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". When an entire nation literally worships you you tend to start believing them and think you can do anything to anyone. a lot depends here on China


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 23, 2010)

At some point S. Korea is going to have to say enough is enough. N. Korea can not continue these actions. In my opinion that little midget of leader needs to be taken out, along with anyone else who wishes to carry on after him.


----------



## Gnomey (Nov 23, 2010)

Agree with Chris. Don't want to see it escalated but it seems like something more is going to happen the way it is continuing you can only poke someone with a stick for so long before they react...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 23, 2010)

Obviously technically the war never ended, there was only an armistice, but what the N. Koreans have been doing over and over is nothing less than act of war. 

I think the South has remained quiet about this for way too long!


----------



## Torch (Nov 23, 2010)

I agree.........


----------



## mikewint (Nov 23, 2010)

China is the BIG if. they're not as reactionary or isolated as they were in the 1950s so perhaps they'll let the little cretin stand alone. and it still won't be easy, the entire country is militarized and fanatically devoted to the "wonderful leader"


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm all for the bravado of "SK go and kick NK azz", but then I remind myself that I have too much skin in the game. In fact we all do. SK is in the top 15 largest economies (Asia's 4th). A war in SK would devastate the world market, unless it lasted only hours. And I don't see that happening. I want to retire sometime in my life and I can't afford yet another hit to my savings.


----------



## mudpuppy (Nov 23, 2010)

The more paranoid side of me is worried that China may be content to let N. Korea "poke the bear" to gauge what level of reaction or even resolve the rest of the world has for intervening in an armed conflict in that arena.


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 23, 2010)

I would say we don't have much resolve. Just judging the reaction the world has had to both NK and Iran, one can quickly conclude we have virtually zero resolve.


----------



## The Basket (Nov 23, 2010)

A war between the Koreas is bad news so hopefully this is just bitch slappin for attention.

But I do agree that if NK keeps on taking the wotsit then its B-52 time.

But I hope that is a long way down the line.


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 23, 2010)

And if it does occur, it sure would be nice to SK accomplish it alone. Perhaps that would keep China out of it.


----------



## Torch (Nov 23, 2010)

Matt you actually think we will be able to retire one day? Think the plot is we will be like that skelton at the desk cartoon.......You would think NK would be better off if they cut the bs with the South and the rest of the world, but maybe they all suffer from the Napoleon complex.


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 23, 2010)

Yeah, Torch, my statement was more rhetorical than realistic. For me at any rate. My wife is going to live forever. Her heredity makes her almost undead.

Me? I have no illusions that I will die at my desk and the only indication that folks on this forum will get is my abrupt absence.


----------



## Florence (Nov 23, 2010)

NK keeps antagonising SK with these little 'incidents' with little or no retribution. No wonder each 'incident' sees an escalation in aggression. If war did breakout again how much military aid would the US be able to provide? Maybe NK has realised the US is busy with Iraq and Afghanistan etc. Could the US afford another war on a different front? Monetary-wise or public opinion-wise?


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 23, 2010)

US has already moved most personnel south according to what I had heard months ago. US is in more of a strategic role as I understand it (intelligence, reconnaissance, command, control, strike). I have full confidence that SK can take care themselves. But with such huge civilian populations right along the border, it would not be pretty. Not by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## RabidAlien (Nov 23, 2010)

One wonders if the world is sitting there on the first-row bleachers, watching as the NK's pick on the SK's, poking here, tweaking there, waiting to provoke a response. If the US jumps in (in any role, whether advisory or actively), this will give China a gift-wrapped excuse to leap in "in defense of their little Red brother", and then we've got another war on our hands. If SK can slap back, maybe throw an unexpected uppercut on their own, China would have no cause to come in, and the whole shebang is reduced to two kids squabbling in the sandbox. That's just my take on it....that, and 27 cents will get you....er....27 cents.


----------



## mikewint (Nov 23, 2010)

It was said back in the 50s and it is still true today, you cannot fight a conventional land war against the Chinese. and a 2nd Korean war would devastate more than just the economy


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 23, 2010)

Certainly would. For surely the whole south side of the 38th parallel would become a refugee zone. That might be an acceptable "casualty of war" if it were relatively unpopulated, but NK knows that with such huge civilian/state productive zones such as Seoul, SK will NEVER enter into war without huge impetus. 80rnds of arty? Nope. It would have to be 8000 before they are going to initiate.


----------



## Njaco (Nov 23, 2010)

lets just hope they never cash in all the US bonds they're buying up.



> Me? I have no illusions that I will die at my desk and the only indication that folks on this forum will get is my abrupt absence.



At least give Me some credit for noting the TV getting slightly snowy and a warm, ill wind coming from the north!


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 23, 2010)

Sorry. I'm a notorious pessimist.


----------



## Njaco (Nov 23, 2010)

and as I was called by a resident last week, I'm an 'F'ing clown!


----------



## mikewint (Nov 23, 2010)

a pessimist is someone who has had a close relationship with an optimist


----------



## Njaco (Nov 23, 2010)




----------



## Florence (Nov 24, 2010)

USAF ready if needed...

USAF Ready to Deter N Korean Threat


----------



## BombTaxi (Nov 24, 2010)

Florence said:


> USAF ready if needed...
> 
> USAF Ready to Deter N Korean Threat



I suspect that this is for form's sake more than an indication that the US will go in the same way it did the last time. Obama is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't - tradition, history and national pride dictate that he must intervene, or lose what is left of his credibility. OTOH, the US is in dire danger of becoming overstretched, and cannot really afford another war which may turn out, like Iraq and Afghanistan, to have no definite end. 

China will stay out of it. Like NK, they are Communist in name only, and they know that Kim is a crazy little guy who likes to run his country into the Stone Age and provoke the West whenever he can. They have absolutely squat to gain from supporting him. And which communist or ex-communist country is going to censure them? No-one would dare. 

NK will implode in the very near future - probably when Kim dies and his son assumes power. There will be juntas vying for power and if the son is not quick and strong, he will be disposed of and the country will wipe itself out in civil war. Failing that, it's society will eventually regress so far in it's living standards that it becomes essentially unsustainable, and will collapse, probably in a very bloody fashion. That will do more harm to SK's economy, once the US has no reason to be friends with them, than Kim's antics ever could.


----------



## Torch (Nov 24, 2010)

The USS George Washington carrier group is heading up there...


----------



## beaupower32 (Nov 24, 2010)

I have been watching this for a while, and I am curious on what SK will do. Just seems like they want to sit around and get poked at. But NK better be careful. SK could go off at a moments notice. I think of it like the videos you see when someone is poking a wild animal till the animal gets pissed off enough and attacks and totally F**$ that person up. 


If NK wants to get frisky with the US, then we got something for em....


----------



## parsifal (Nov 24, 2010)

Almost certainly the Nks are doing this for a reason....usually to distract attention from something else not related. I notice on the news they have finally revealed some further information about their nuclear program. An inspector said on the news that have hundreds of centrifuges working to extract bomb grade plutonium.

The more dire their domestic situation, the more dangerous they become. If they have 10 or 20 nukes they are a frekin worry. They have an army of more than a million

We will know if China is snctioing this if the thing drags on for more than a few days. My best guess is the Chinese might be flexing their muscles after APEC......ther was a alot of talk about Burma which China did not like, and a lot of interventionary talk about the South China Sea....and that didnt impress them either. They did not appreciate the US or Russia gatecrashing their part too much....so its all gonna get intersting IMO.


----------



## timshatz (Nov 24, 2010)

NK's history is not to poke but to attack. That is when they really want to attack (thinking of June 1950). When they prod, as they did yesterday and back in March, they seem much more interested in achieving some goal short of war. Given the domestic handoff between father and son and the history of the last handoff (when the border heated up again), what is going on now is not suprising. As somebody noted in an earlier post, this is just more "poking the bear" to see what the reaction will be. But given the exchange yesterday and the exposure by the NK govt of the nuke manufacturing to the US Proff over the weekend, it seems this is not yet over. 

What is very interesting is what Simpachi said. He is right across the Sea of Japan from Korea and there is no domestic tension from events between the two Koreas. Either history tells the Japanese not to worry about it, tempest in a teapot type of thing. Or everyone has grossly misjudge the NKs and this is the start of something. 

I am more inclined to believe the tempest in a teapot perspective.


----------



## Shinpachi (Nov 24, 2010)

Thanks timshatz.

The Koreans are a great people because they survived for thousands years as an independent nation without making war against China, Japan, Mongolia and Russia.

Their strongest weapon is always bluff.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 24, 2010)

I have to admit, I'm surprised SK has not retaliated more then they did.


----------



## mikewint (Nov 24, 2010)

That's because this sort of thing has been going on since the Korean truce. arty rounds from both sides, border raids, etc. Business as usual at the 38th. If the big boys stay out of it it will probably just fizzel out (he said hopefully)


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 24, 2010)

I'm not so sure, esp with this after a SK ship was sunk.


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 24, 2010)

My take? SK can't afford a war. Especially if it's protracted. They can't afford the refugees flooding the border and the humanitarian action they would have to undertake while the NK terrorized both SK and their own people.

I have been proven wrong before with WGermany and EGermany, but don't think this one will transpire so passive in nature. I hope I'm wrong. Again.


----------



## evangilder (Nov 24, 2010)

I hope you're wrong on this too. Although I don't know that West and East Germany is truly comparable to North and South Korea because the north has been so isolated from the outside for so long.


----------



## Shinpachi (Nov 25, 2010)

The Germans are rational but my neighbors are emotional.
Totally different like iron and wood.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 25, 2010)

Excellent point


----------



## Njaco (Nov 25, 2010)

Shinpachi said:


> The Germans are rational but my neighbors are emotional.
> Totally different like iron and wood.


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 25, 2010)

And you can't argue/negotiate from an emotional perspective. Good point!


----------



## BombTaxi (Nov 25, 2010)

A military response will only serve to rachet up the emotions though. That is exactly what Pyongyang wants. Cutting off the publicity would shut Kim down in about 5 seconds - he needs the international media the same way he needs oxygen. I think rather than spouting hype about the coming war, the global media should just pipe down and leave this to SK to decide upon.


----------



## GrauGeist (Nov 25, 2010)

Good point, Shinpachi

Perhaps if U.S. foreign policy was a little firmer than issuing "strong statements of condemnation" or a few sanctions here and there...

Maybe if China thought the U.S. would cut back a little on trade if NK wasn't reigned in a little would force them to "lean" on that idiot that North Koreans call a leader.

Then again, there always are other options:


----------



## mikewint (Nov 25, 2010)

As I posted earlier, if the big boys just stay out of it...
That having been said I think this is pretty cool


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 25, 2010)

From MSN.com

Since the two Koreas exchanged hundreds of artillery rounds Tuesday in an incident that killed two South Korean marines and two civilians, Seoul and Pyongyang have been blaming each other for instigating the attack. South Korean Defense Minister Kim Tae-young (who resigned Thursday after being criticized for what was called his poor response to the strike) says he suspects that two senior-level North Korean officers allegedly involved in the March sinking of the South’s warship, Cheonan, were behind this week’s attack. The North, on the other hand, claims that the South fired first.

Regardless of where the first shot came from, Pyongyang seems to have been setting the stage for this kind of attack as early as last year. For the past two years, the North Koreans have increasingly claimed that they were threatened by American and South Korean war games. So when the South conducted counter-proliferation drills with the United States last year, the North’s Korean People’s Army (KPA) declared that it will no longer be bound by the Korean Armistice Agreement and added that it “will not guarantee the legal status” of islands in disputed waters, including Yeonpyeong, the island that was shelled Tuesday. Translation: North Korea believes it is at liberty to attack should it feel provoked.

What’s more, a relatively unnoticed North Korean military drill in August suggests that Tuesday’s shelling may have been premeditated. On Aug. 9, the North fired about 100 artillery pieces toward South Korean waters. Later that day, North Korean drones were spotted hovering near Yeonpyeong. South Korean defense officials say they believe the North Koreans are using the drones to spy on the South’s troops and weapons stationed on islands such as Yeonpyeong. That, along with the sequence of the exercise, suggests that the communist North has been gearing up for an attack on the island for some time.

The North Koreans are justifying this week’s shelling as a “decisive self-defensive measure” in response to South Korean military exercises. It’s a logic they’ve been using since the early 1990s; Pyongyang has used U.S. and South Korean war games as a pretext to step up its belligerency, citing the “hostile policies of the U.S. imperialists and the South Korean puppet regime.”

This time, however, things could get worse. In the past, North Korean leader Kim Jong-il used the relatively moderate foreign ministry to keep the military in check so things don’t spiral out of control. But recently, the military appears to be increasingly asserting itself on policy matters. In the past two years, military organs such as the Supreme Command of the KPA and the National Defense Commission have been issuing policy statements directed toward the outside world -- something that was mostly done by the foreign ministry in the past.

More frightening is that there are reasons to believe that the military has become so emboldened and powerful that Kim Jong-il may no longer be the absolute leader who calls the shots in Pyongyang. For one, the Dear Leader’s physical and mental capacity has been declining—he reportedly suffered a stroke in 2008 and has grown frail since then. His third son and heir apparent, Kim Jong-un, lacks military credentials (although he recently and arbitrarily was elevated to the rank of general), and has to prove to the military that he has what it takes to be the next dictator-in-chief. That may explain why the Kims recently toured the base from which the shelling took place, to rubber-stamp the attack.

What’s ironic is that part of the military’s growing hubris could be of Kim Jong-il’s own making. In the late 1990s, he initiated his Songun—or military-first—policy, in which the KPA was elevated to the highest position in the government. Under that policy, Kim Jong-il sprinkled his generals with Mercedes, missiles and nukes. Now, experts say the military has become so powerful that the Dear Leader no longer can rein in his generals. “The military-first policy has essentially reached its logical conclusion—that Kim Jong-il is no longer in a position to make the final policy decisions,” says Kenneth Quinones, a former U.S. negotiator and Korea expert.

Meanwhile, the South Koreans will soon begin naval exercises in the Yellow Sea with the U.S. The exercises will involve the aircraft carrier USS George Washington, which the Obama administration dispatched as a way to signal its displeasure about the shelling. In the eyes of North Korea’s generals, that may well constitute another excuse to get trigger-happy, again.


----------



## timshatz (Nov 26, 2010)

Could be a one off. Doesn't seem to have been any further firing.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 26, 2010)

Very interesting post Matt, and somewhat scary.


----------



## Shinpachi (Nov 26, 2010)

News from the Philippines -

*Aquino: Govt ready to evacuate Pinoys in Korea* 
GMANews.TV - Friday, November 26

BAGUIO CITY — The government is prepared to evacuate some 50,000 Filipinos in South Korea should tensions in the Korean peninsula escalate, President Benigno Aquino III said Friday.

"I asked the DFA (Department of Foreign Affairs) to make sure that they do test runs kung saka-sakaling kelangang i-evacuate. I asked the DFA also to talk to the Japanese government, to their ambassador, dahil yung closest point ng evacuation is about 50 kilometers, sa Japan," Aquino said in an interview here.

..... more details

Rely on us, Pong!


----------



## evangilder (Nov 26, 2010)

If the government of the Philippines is preparing for that, it isn't a real good sign. Tensions have been raised there before, but I don't recall this happening.


----------



## BombTaxi (Nov 26, 2010)

I think the Phillipines response is an over-reaction, and one calculated to increase tensions rather than decrease them. There will be more shelling, as soon as the exercises with US carriers begin. There is no doubt about that in my mind. The exercises were designed to show NK that they were being watched and that the US can crush them at will. It may be necessary for the US and SK to put the money where the words are if these exercises go ahead...


----------



## javlin (Nov 26, 2010)

I think BT its the old fable "plan for the worst and......." I do wonder how NK is going to respond in the past when the US is actually present it has just been sabre rattling.A little misreporting in this part from the article at least as far as intelligence suggest thus far..Kim Jong-il sprinkled his generals with Mercedes, missiles and nukes..I do not think that they have a capable missle delivery yet and a good detonation device.


----------



## BombTaxi (Nov 26, 2010)

I just think that all of the media, political and military hype surrounding this situation is aimed at escalation, and deliberately so. There is a large caucus in the West in general, and the US in particular, which would welcome a second Korean War , either as a blow against the 'Axis of Evil' or against "Communism". The US has, even under Obama, continued to act in a highly provocative fashion, using military exercises to make overt displays of power to NK. Kim himself would no doubt love a war as it would confirm his fear that the capitalists are out to get him and give him a chance to try and obliterate the entire peninsula to provide his blaze of glory. SK, meantime, stands to lose massively from a war; once NK is gone, the US has no reason to be SK's friend anymore, and all the benefit that came from being a victim of Containment would dry up. ending SK's political and economic ascendancy in the region.


----------



## javlin (Nov 26, 2010)

BT a war of any kind around this world that is new has the ability to economicly hurt all large and small countries alike.There are alliances taking place like between Russia and China just yesterday something I think 15 yrs ago would not of happened.I personally if China would look at there new pac much like how Germany treated Russia or maybe should Russia lookout?It's coming down to mineral rights for upcoming new economys while groups here in the US are not allowing development.


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 26, 2010)

NK doesn't want a war. That would be the end of the regime. Rather they want the NK populace focused upon the evil west so they won't focus upon their internal debacle. The sabre rattling has been occurring ever since the cease fire. Neither side wants war, but the fear is that NK may overstep that invisible and undefineable line between arrogant beligerency and unacceptable catalyst of war. SK doesn't want to assimilate all of those refugees that would flood across the border on their own dime with their ecomomy going gangbusters. If NK backs off, nothing is going to happen. If they shell civvies or shoot a fish into a US ship, then I think all hell is going to break loose.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 26, 2010)

N. Korea seems to have fired off some more warning shots now. 

China is also warning the US and S.Korea to not conduct any exercises near its waters.


----------



## GrauGeist (Nov 26, 2010)

Oh, and I like this comment of thiers:
"_...We oppose any party to take any military acts in our *exclusive economic zone* without permission_, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said in a statement."

Exclusive Economic Zone?

Interesting...


----------



## javlin (Nov 26, 2010)

I heard that a lttle while ago Chris on the radio and Matt thats the thing that invivsible wall that NK pushing against.Mr Bolton is suppose to be on the Hannity show next hour about NK I haven't heard from him as of yet.The US is going to send the ships and I would not doubt if SK refortifies those islands.They weaken thier presence back in the early 90's to appease the NK then the stunt that occurred the other day.Yea!NK is trying to get some concessions and they got them from the UN I posted that in the other thread as well as new pac between Russia and China.Mineral rights boys and girls mineral rights it occurred in the 20's 30's in appears to be showing it's hand again.


----------



## BombTaxi (Nov 27, 2010)

GrauGeist said:


> Oh, and I like this comment of thiers:
> "_...We oppose any party to take any military acts in our *exclusive economic zone* without permission_, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said in a statement."
> 
> Exclusive Economic Zone?
> ...



You have to consider that China is now where the USA was in 1989-1920s. This is simply their version of the Monroe Doctrine. Just like the US back then, they know full well that their claimed sphere of influence has no basis in law and will offend some of those whose interests fall within it. And again like the US back then, they don't care because they are by far the biggest dog in that yard. It is a deliberate challenge to the previous generation of superpowers to show that they still have some clout. Kim's antics have merely provided a convenient pretext for testing the water...


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 27, 2010)

...and China is on the rise. And I don't see anything EXTERNAL stopping them as long as they continue to spread their wealth to their outlying areas. It's a brave new world and the communists are gonna lead. Be afraid.


----------



## pbfoot (Nov 27, 2010)

The popular opinion in South Korea is demanding a more robust response and the S Korean govt is also investigating a more susstantive reply.


----------



## BombTaxi (Nov 27, 2010)

The only substantive reply is war. And no-one seems to want that right now...


----------



## Glider (Nov 27, 2010)

Its the little things which give signals that worry me. All N Korean construction worker in Russia have left at once and are headng back to NK. These tended to be the best workers that NK had and the sudden return of these men is a cause for concern.


----------



## pbfoot (Nov 27, 2010)

Glider said:


> Its the little things which give signals that worry me. All N Korean construction worker in Russia have left at once and are headng back to NK. These tended to be the best workers that NK had and the sudden return of these men is a cause for concern.


Hadn`t heard that , makes one wonder as you would think NK would be looking for the hard currencies these workers would supply
There was an article in the paper here about what response Canada would have to make as they are one of the 16 countries committed to make contributions in case of war. The 16 countries are those that participated in the Korean War


----------



## GrauGeist (Nov 27, 2010)

It is entirely possible that NK is calling up thier reserves...


----------



## BombTaxi (Nov 27, 2010)

pbfoot said:


> Hadn`t heard that , makes one wonder as you would think NK would be looking for the hard currencies these workers would supply
> There was an article in the paper here about what response Canada would have to make as they are one of the 16 countries committed to make contributions in case of war. The 16 countries are those that participated in the Korean War



I don't think the UK has anything left to commit after our adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan. And I'm not sure public opinion here could support yet another war.


----------



## javlin (Nov 28, 2010)

BEIJING – North Korea has deployed surface-to-air missiles near the Yellow Sea border, the Yonhap News Agency reports.

"(The missiles) appear to be targeting our fighter jets that fly near the Northern Limit Line," a South Korean source told the news agency.

The source who spoke on condition of anonymity says North Korea is preparing to fire the Soviet-made missiles.

"The military is preparing for the possibility of further provocations as the North Korean military has deployed firepower near the NLL and is preparing to fire," the source said.

This latest development comes as a U.S. supercarrier and South Korean destroyer took up position in the tense sea on Sunday for joint military exercises that were a united show of force just days after a deadly North Korean artillery attack.

Report: North Korea Deploys Missiles Near Yellow Sea Border - FoxNews.com

And the story comes out of BEIJING so it would seem that NK is telling the US stay out of the No-Fly-Zone?Russian missiles and Chinese brokers


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 28, 2010)

It certainly is getting interesting. 

I wish China would make more of a statement. See where they stand this time around.


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 28, 2010)

They have voiced consternation, but not identified who.


----------



## Florence (Nov 29, 2010)

Here is a link to some pics of Yeonpyeoung....


The Korea Crisis: North vs South >> TotallyCoolPix


----------



## timshatz (Nov 29, 2010)

That dud didn't look like an artillery shell, more like a rocket. One of those 122MM jobbies they toss in groups.


----------



## javlin (Nov 29, 2010)

Was there a base in there somewhere?1/2 down the page you see a suburb and no base unless it's to the back.Maybe NK had some bad cordinates or they were looking for the greatest impact;I would go impact.


----------



## GrauGeist (Nov 29, 2010)

NK is also accusing Sk of intentionally placing military installations within populated areas on that island under the pretext of the civilians being "human sheilds"...

Two things come to mind here...one, don't attack them with artillery, use "smart weapons" instead (oh wait, "smart weapons"?...this is NK, my bad) to minimize collateral damage and second, stop being dumbasses and not attack them in the first place (but that's just me thinking, again my bad)...

Buncha idiots...


----------



## michaelmaltby (Nov 30, 2010)

Now we get to find out what China REALLY thinks  Thanks wikileaks:

Wikileaks cables reveal China 'ready to abandon North Korea' | World news | The Guardian


----------



## Torch (Nov 30, 2010)

Bluffer's Guide: North Korea strikes! (2009)


----------



## michaelmaltby (Nov 30, 2010)

Great find, Torch. Thanks 

MM


----------



## javlin (Dec 2, 2010)

Torch said:


> Bluffer's Guide: North Korea strikes! (2009)



Nice info.Cheers


----------



## vikingBerserker (Dec 2, 2010)

Nice finds fellas.


----------

