# Yours substitutes for the 149/35 gun of the Royal Army (Italian)



## Vincenzo (Dec 18, 2012)

The italian main (most common) armies gun (cannon) was the very old 149/35 a Armstrong design "ad affusto rigido" (i don't know what english equivalent) Cannone da 149/35 A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For true the italian artillery had chosen the 152/37 as armies gun but troubles with the draws prevented the production of the gun 15 cm Autokanone M. 15/16 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What gun you choose for substitute of 149/35? need already delivered almost 150 pieces for june 1940, should be not too expansive or heavy.

The italian Army later chose as substitute the 149/40 Cannone da 149/40 modello 35 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
but the production was very low only 4 "gruppi" (Btl) get this gun with a paper strenght of 48 guns.


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## davebender (Dec 18, 2012)

Inexpensive, reliable and effective. You've got the option to pay more and obtain the lightweight 15cm sFH 36 variant.


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## tomo pauk (Dec 18, 2012)

Two Czech pieces come to mind: the 15cm K1 or K4, perhaps the 1st 'modern' (ie. non-ww1) heavy artillery pieces.


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## Vincenzo (Dec 18, 2012)

davebender: the 15 cm sFH18 is a howitzer....
tomo pauk: the 15 cm K-14 are howitzer...


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## fastmongrel (Dec 19, 2012)

155mm GPF french gun. It was a WW one design but the French still had plenty on hand in 1939 and it was still an excellent piece. After May 40 buy them off the Germans I am sure they must have captured 100s in good enough condition.


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## tomo pauk (Dec 19, 2012)

Vincenzo said:


> davebender: the 15 cm sFH18 is a howitzer....
> tomo pauk: the 15 cm K-14 are howitzer...



The Czech howitzers were firing to a comparable range as it was the old cannon we want to replace, weighting maybe half as the old one. If something better available is wanted, then French 155mm GPF fits the bill nicely(agreed with Fastmongrel). Although I'd like to see it with a nice big muzzle brake, so the carriage can be lighter. Shortcoming is the need to produce all new shells charges for Italian needs.


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## davebender (Dec 19, 2012)

What's wrong with that? High angle fire is the preferred method for delivering artillery shells.


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## cherry blossom (Dec 19, 2012)

Although not close ideologically, the USSR did obtain naval technology from Italy before WW2. Perhaps the design of the 152 mm howitzer-gun M1937
152 mm howitzer-gun M1937 (ML-20) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia might have been obtained in 1937 in payment. It seems a fairly good match in range and weight of shell while being more mobile, quicker firing and traversable.


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## davebender (Dec 19, 2012)

If you want more range the 15cmK39 might be a good choice. Designed as an export weapon (for Turkey). There's no reason Italy couldn't also purchase this long range artillery piece. Optional turntable for coast defense use.

Or you could adopt the Heer artillery system.
10.5cm leFH18 Light Howitzer.
15cm sFH18 Heavy Howitzer.
Plus a smaller number of long range 10cmK18 for counter battery missions.


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## Vincenzo (Dec 19, 2012)

fastmongrel: the 155 GPF maybe the right piece if, as tomo already writed, had not a different and new calibre...
tomo: yes but this is for a long range gun use a good howitzer with similar range of old gun i don't think is a acceptable substitutes (in other the new italian 149 howitzer (corps artillery) has around the same capability).
davebender: the sFH 18 has less range of the old gun we need a long range gun for armies artillery, with counter-battery fire as one of missions
cherry blossom: ML-20 maybe a bit shorter as range but is not a bad choice


davebender for the 15 cm K39 i think it's too late and too expensive


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## fastmongrel (Dec 20, 2012)

tomo pauk said:


> then French 155mm GPF fits the bill nicely(agreed with Fastmongrel). Although I'd like to see it with a nice big muzzle brake, so the carriage can be lighter. Shortcoming is the need to produce all new shells charges for Italian needs.



It wouldnt be too difficult to produce new liners for the GPF to use the standard Army 149mm or even Naval 152mm shell, after all the Germans did it regulary with Soviet artillery. Or just buy shells from Vichy French foundries. Charges are easy they are just silk or cambric bags and would just need someone to work out the firing tables.


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## davebender (Dec 20, 2012)

Welcome to Landships! - A site for WW1 Military Hardware WW1 Military Modelling
15cmK16 (range 22.8km) entered service during 1917.

Krupp made all sorts of artillery pieces for export. Italy can order an updated 15cmK16 anytime during 1930s as long as they have cash to pay.


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## fastmongrel (Dec 20, 2012)

davebender said:


> as long as they have cash to pay.



Bingo theres the problem Italy wasnt exactly overloaded with hard currency.


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## DonL (Dec 20, 2012)

I think the 122-mm-Kanone M1931/37 (A-19) and the Schwere 10-cm-Feldkanone 18 are pretty good field guns with a huge range and acceptable weight.

Edit: And the Schwere 10-cm-Feldkanone 18 was on Division level not Korps level (this is a myth)!


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## Vincenzo (Dec 20, 2012)

fastmongrel: i don't know but if the liners is not a trouble a 149mm GPF is think is ok (also a 152 GPF army already use this calibre for the 152/37, 152/45 and for the 6 inch howitzer)

davebender: the 15 cm K 16 has sure the numbers for a choice (a more modern pieces probably is too expansive the Germany want too money for their equip the Ju 87 price was superior to that italian trimotor bomber) 

DonL: i want stay with a ~6 inch gun this is a army asset give a small calibre gun give a to light shell.


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## davebender (Dec 20, 2012)

Field artillery and ammunition are expensive. Italy won't be replacing obsolete weapons unless they find some money.


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## tomo pauk (Dec 22, 2012)

Hmm, I've skipped the queen of the guns, the ML-20. 
Swapping a cruiser or two for hundred or two of those?


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