# Meanwhile .. in Red Square



## michaelmaltby (Apr 28, 2015)

Russia unveils new Armata tank for WW2 victory parade - BBC News

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## Shinpachi (Apr 28, 2015)

Time looks frozen there.


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## nuuumannn (May 5, 2015)

> Russia has unveiled a new-generation battle tank called Armata T-14 ahead of World War Two Victory Day celebrations on 9 May.



."..before it will be sent to the Ukraine, where it will be used in a full scale re-anactment of WW2's greatest tank battles using live ammunition..." 



> Time looks frozen there.



It sure does, Shinpachi; visiting Russia is like stepping into a time warp. It is very insular there; what's worse is that most Russians are aware that it's like that.

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## GrauGeist (May 5, 2015)

Meanwhile, in Crimea, billboards picturing Uncle Joe are popping up celebrating his awesome legacy of beating the Nazis and industrializing Russia.

That would be like Hitler popping up on billboards in Germany celebrating his legacy of bringing Germany out of post-WWI ruin and building nifty autobahns all over Europe.

How soon they forget...

Stalin Billboards Go up in Crimea Ahead of Victory Day - ABC News

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## nuuumannn (May 5, 2015)

Lordy, Putin really_ is_ trying to bring back the Soviet Union. Distort the past to inspire the future...

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## Crimea_River (May 5, 2015)

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

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## nuuumannn (May 5, 2015)

If only that were the case here, for the Russians/Putin _does_ remember the past and thinks the world of it and _wants_ to repeat it, horrors and all, regardless of the consequences.


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## GrauGeist (May 5, 2015)

_“The man who has no sense of history, is like a man who has no ears or eyes”_
― Adolf Hitler

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## Torch (May 7, 2015)

Ohoh new tank goes kaputski..Russia's Newest Tank Stops During Parade Rehearsal | Military.com


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## nuuumannn (May 8, 2015)

I see the PA announcer claimed it was part of the process, as weapon evaluation...


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## GrauGeist (May 8, 2015)

yeahhhh...and the attempt to tow it was part of the drill, right?

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## michaelmaltby (May 9, 2015)

The big Red _show_ ... see it here ... 


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZEhmYajkJY_


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## nuuumannn (May 9, 2015)

"Mischa! Break out the wodka! The Communists are back again! Now, where did I put my hammer and sickle..."

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## GrauGeist (May 9, 2015)

michaelmaltby said:


> The big Red _show_ ... see it here ...


Love RT's propaganda spin: stuff like the B-2 bomber can't fly in the rain. They are also comparing the Tu-160 to the B-2 for that "feel good - our stuff is better" angle.

Anyone notice the red star national insignia on the tanks?

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## nuuumannn (May 10, 2015)

"Two beleaguered looking Russians are standing in a cue outside a butcher shop in Moscow. One says to the other, How are you doing?, the other says, I'm fantastic. The first one says, did you read the Pravda today?, the second one says, Of course, how else would I know that I was doing fantastic?!"

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## michaelmaltby (May 11, 2015)

Putin Defends Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact in Press Conference with Merkel | News | The Moscow Times

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## imalko (May 11, 2015)

Without a wish to elaborate entire diplomatic prelude to WW2, I would say that, although questionable on the grounds of morality, the pact was undoubtedly a Soviet diplomatic success. It delayed the inevitable conflict with Nazi Germany, but also offered a chance to reclaim some territories lost after the WW1 and to create additional "buffer" zone in the west. In that sense I more-less agree with what is written in the text.



> Anyone notice the red star national insignia on the tanks?



If you refer to the insignia seen on this Armata tank for example (picture 1 in the attachment), it's the stylized red star superimposed on the "Georgiyevski" ribbon (The Ribbon of Saint George), which is the symbol of victory. The same insignia was applied to all vehicles participating in the parade. On Victory Day the ribbon is also widely worn by soldiers and civilians alike. 

On the side note, the red star is not a Russian national insignia for some time now. It was changed by adding a blue outline as a reference to the Russian national colors (white-blue-red). See the picture 2 in the attachment.



> Meanwhile, in Crimea, billboards picturing Uncle Joe are popping up celebrating his awesome legacy of beating the Nazis and industrializing Russia.
> 
> That would be like Hitler popping up on billboards in Germany celebrating his legacy of bringing Germany out of post-WWI ruin and building nifty autobahns all over Europe.
> 
> How soon they forget...



As a regard to this and few similar posts from previous page I would say that, you are comparing apples and oranges here. You can think about Stalin and his life and work whatever you like, but to my opinion if anyone else had been in charge the Soviet Union would have collapsed in 1941 and the history would have taken completely different turn. Believe me the Russians remember their past very well.

Here's something regarding the Russian mentality, the impact WW2 had on them as a nation and the place it holds in their collective memory - _Immortal Regiment rally in Russia_ (picture 3). Haven't notice this was much publicized in media. See the link below...

TASS: Russia - Immortal Regiment rally in Russia

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## Torch (May 12, 2015)

View from the air.....http://theaviationist.com/2015/05/11/victory-day-air-parade-go-pro/

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## michaelmaltby (May 12, 2015)

".....I would say that, although questionable on the grounds of morality, the pact was undoubtedly a Soviet diplomatic success. It delayed the inevitable conflict with Nazi Germany, but also offered a chance to reclaim some territories lost after the WW1 and to create additional "buffer" zone in the west. "

Morality or opportunity, Imalko?

Prior to M-R, Stalin had proposed his "solution" for the Hitler menace to the leadership of Britain and France ... namely that they endorse the USSR taking up forward positions in Poland to check the Nazis. There was no agreement or appetite for this so Stalin opted for half-a-loaf is better than no loaf ... sadly for Poland.

Stalin 'planned to send a million troops to stop Hitler if Britain and France agreed pact' - Telegraph

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## michaelmaltby (Jun 24, 2015)

Russian leadership can't grasp why their neighbors don't like or trust them:


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kksq7Rlt5-o_


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## pbehn (Jun 24, 2015)

imalko said:


> If you refer to the insignia seen on this Armata tank for example (picture 1 in the attachment), it's the stylized red star superimposed on the "Georgiyevski" ribbon (The Ribbon of Saint George), which is the symbol of victory. The same insignia was applied to all vehicles participating in the parade. On Victory Day the ribbon is also widely worn by soldiers and civilians alike.
> [/url]



St George is the patron saint of Moscow, when you walk into the Kremlin there is a relief carving above the entrance.


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## razor1uk (Jun 26, 2015)

It seems St. George being the patron Saint of countries like England, Georgia, Malta, Portugal, and likely others too along with some cities too, makes him seem 'Saintly claimed' wise, to be as common as 'Red Lion' or 'Kings/Queens Head' pubs are...

A shame that the Putinocrasy, the Pootinite followers and Sh*tbox apologists might well use St.George as 'religiously moral argument' to grant and foster support from those silently still on the fence in Russia - remember over there it is illegal punishable offence to insult military veterans also the newer officially sanctioned revisions of history too.

Painting an old bear (that's had a new haircut and claw trim), into a corner while trying to flick its love spuds with a wet towel can produce unforseen effects (sorry almost made a Rimmer-ism) ...even though that bear did stumbled into the corner once as it sobered up from a bender on Yeltsin brand of rebadged Glasnost wodka.


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## michaelmaltby (Aug 13, 2015)

*August, 2015: Paratroopers' Day in Moscow*  ... revealing

https://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/


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## A4K (Aug 13, 2015)

Did you hear about the Russian dwarf? F***ING ENORMOUS!
(Old Hungarian joke)

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## michaelmaltby (Sep 27, 2015)

_*How do you say Checkpoint Charlie in Estonian ...?
*_

Russia and Estonia 'exchange spies' after Kohver row - BBC News


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## michaelmaltby (Oct 12, 2015)

Mr. Putin's _answer _.....


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KHCNk9BYy4_

.... no doubt about it, Putin's got 'game'!!!  

.... but the answer to him is valid (tho not PC) .... "we in the West fear you and your country and your systems because we have seen what you are capable of ... and all of it flies in the face of 1,000 years worth of Western political, social and economic values .... which you and your government have failed and refuse to implement ... so the US and our NATO allies will continue to maintain our watch on you and expend blood and treasure .... Mr Putin ... because it's common sense to anticipate _danger_" .


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## Lucky13 (Oct 13, 2015)

It's time for the.....


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## michaelmaltby (Oct 14, 2015)

.... this is more likely .... good-stick-to-the ribs US L-L rations


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## Capt. Vick (Oct 14, 2015)

It's called a Kleptocracy. Read all about it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy

Putin’s Way | FRONTLINE | PBS

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## michaelmaltby (Oct 21, 2015)

Russian Luch Satellite Relocates — Next to Another Intelsat Craft - SpaceNews.com


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## GregP (Oct 24, 2015)

Let's not forget all the Russian aviation firsts including the surprise landing of the ANT-25 in the USA, Korea, Sputnik, or Afganistan. The Russians/Soviets have been innovators for many decades in aviation and weapons.

Nationalism is fine until it dulls your sense of wariness to the continuing threat. I'd MUCH rather make them friends than continuing to see them as enemies. That assumes they can follow their agreements ... and so can WE. I'm not all that sure why we are "us" and they are "them" at this time other than by tradition. What I need is real statement of what our two purposes and ideologies are rather than propaganda.

I wish myself good luck with that ...

I also remember that Russia has been invaded and we haven't. This MAY have something to do with their position. We might recall the USA suffered 418,500 war deaths in WWII and the Soviet Union suffered 24 million. That's about 57 times more and that ends to color your national sense of self protection, even decades on from the event. Had WE been invaded, we might STILL have those feelings. The Russians have long memories that are very different from ours in terms of impact on the coutry.

When Serbia and Croatia came out from under Soviet rule, they promptly resumed WWI. We didn't seem to act surprised at that during the event. Why are we surprised about the Russian opinions?

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## michaelmaltby (Oct 25, 2015)

".....What I need is real statement of what our two purposes and ideologies are rather than propaganda."

THERE ISN'T A SOUNDBITE WAITING TO GIVE YOU AN ANSWER .... Greg .... but I suggest you read the history of Western governance from Magna Carta to the Marshal Plan .... the difference in basic human/commercial/social values is _unmistakable_

edit: as I earlier posted re: Putin Crushes Smartass BBC journo/pundit:

.... no doubt about it, Putin's got 'game'!!! 

.... but the answer to him is valid (tho not PC) .... "we in the West _fear _you and your country and your systems because we have seen what you are capable of ... and all of it flies in the face of 1,000 years worth of Western political, social and economic values .... which you and your government have failed and refuse to implement ... so the US and our NATO allies will continue to maintain our watch on you and expend blood and treasure .... Mr Putin ... because it's common sense to anticipate danger" .

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## michaelmaltby (Oct 26, 2015)

Of course it is, Vlad ....

Russia calls Estonian/NATO air base plan destabilizing 'provocation' - Yahoo News


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## michaelmaltby (Nov 10, 2015)

Good luck with that ...

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/11/06/world/europe/ap-eu-baltics-soviet-occupation.html?_r=0


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## michaelmaltby (Nov 12, 2015)

Russia reveals giant nuclear torpedo in state TV 'leak' - BBC News


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## michaelmaltby (Nov 12, 2015)

[duplicate]


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## michaelmaltby (Dec 10, 2015)

Russian military aircraft made 266 'blind' flights near Estonia this year | News | ERR


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## GregP (Dec 10, 2015)

I know my history, Mike. I'm not very sure the current Russian plans have much to do with Czarist Russia or the former Soviet Union. I believe they're driven more by different motives entirely than they used to be.

I think they USED to be driven by the Communist Party. I don't think so anymore. Different reasons now unless I just misread it entirely.

This isn't a political forum and I don't want a political argument. I was just wondering about the old us-versus-them attitude and wondering whether we could find some common ground. I was not and AM not advocating surrender or relaxing our desire for world freedom. Freedom also implies being free to side with a nation other than us.

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## michaelmaltby (Dec 11, 2015)

The long and the short of it, Greg - and it's _history_, not _politics_, is that the Estonians have reason to fear any activity from east of the Narva River be it under the Red star or the Imperial Eagle.


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## GregP (Dec 13, 2015)

Well at least ,my history books and yours seem to agree on that point.

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## gjs238 (Dec 13, 2015)

michaelmaltby said:


> The big Red _show_ ... see it here ...
> 
> 
> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZEhmYajkJY_




And just where does all the money for this come from?


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## michaelmaltby (Dec 14, 2015)

Good question .... it sure ain't from oil


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## michaelmaltby (Jan 6, 2016)

An ego to match ...


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 10, 2016)

If somebody want a closer look to the T-14 and his IFV brothers....


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RoXE7bspco_

The Heavy infantry fighting vehicleT-15 looks quite spectacular in my view.

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## michaelmaltby (Jan 10, 2016)

... they know how to build and deploy armour ... NDAI. Good to hear from you.


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## michaelmaltby (Jan 18, 2016)

Vlad from 2013 speech ..... hard to find fault with:

".... _Another serious challenge to Russia’s identity is linked to events taking place in the world. Here there are both foreign policy and moral aspects. We can see how many of the Euro-Atlantic countries are actually rejecting their roots, including the Christian values that constitute the basis of Western civilisation. They are denying moral principles and all traditional identities: national, cultural, religious and even sexual. They are implementing policies that equate large families with same-sex partnerships, belief in God with the belief in Satan._
_The excesses of political correctness have reached the point where people are seriously talking about registering political parties whose aim is to promote paedophilia. People in many European countries are embarrassed or afraid to talk about their religious affiliations. Holidays are abolished or even called something different; their essence is hidden away, as is their moral foundation. And people are aggressively trying to export this model all over the world. I am convinced that this opens a direct path to degradation and primitivism, resulting in a profound demographic and moral crisis._
_What else but the loss of the ability to self-reproduce could act as the greatest testimony of the moral crisis facing a human society? Today almost all developed nations are no longer able to reproduce themselves, even with the help of migration. Without the values ??embedded in Christianity and other world religions, without the standards of morality that have taken shape over millennia, people will inevitably lose their human dignity. We consider it natural and right to defend these values??. One must respect every minority’s right to be different, but the rights of the majority must not be put into question ..... "_


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 22, 2016)

Thank you Michael, by the way, this clip shows the T14 firing, of the gun power in t*oo damn big*, or the tank is not as heavy as some analist said (51 tons, 10 tons heavier than a T90)
Also it seem that the new 125mm use a metallic case catrigde instead the earlier caseless ammo packs.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aKkSnxy4wc_


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## michaelmaltby (Jan 30, 2016)

Russia’s 'rustbucket' military gives hi-tech shock to West and Israel


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## CharlesBronson (Jan 31, 2016)

Rustbucket nothing, some people falling in the old stereotypes are stupid, military analist should be more inteligent than that.

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## nuuumannn (Jan 31, 2016)

michaelmaltby said:


> _One must respect every minority’s right to be different, but the rights of the majority must not be put into question ..... "_



You forgot the last line of that speech, Mike,

"So, we'll invade the minority states around our borders without consent - that'll sort out the queers and heathen and prove to the world that we are a modern, progressive country that doesn't pander to these new ideologies..."

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## GrauGeist (Jan 31, 2016)

That article is nothing more than sensational filler...

Putin has done nothing in Syria that has come as a surprise, either in equipment or tactics.


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## michaelmaltby (Jan 31, 2016)

I don't disagree, GG, but you must admit we're seeing the ex-soviet airfleet exercised .... which is useful for the allied coalition .... watch the big Tupolev operating in theatre ... link in article ... I, for one, like to see what the opposition side is using .. and how.


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## michaelmaltby (Feb 9, 2016)

*Learning to skin a reindeer ..... Sami (Laplander) demonstrates for NATO forces on joint exercises*


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## michaelmaltby (Feb 13, 2016)

*The end of NEP II*

Moscow Just Razed Its Small Businesses and Became Even Blander - The New Yorker


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## Wildcat (Feb 13, 2016)

Interesting article.


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## michaelmaltby (Mar 5, 2016)

Scary .....


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrg9H6FGU&feature=youtu.be_


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## Torch (Mar 5, 2016)

Don't knock the Red Army choir, this is corny but they do have a set of pipes...
_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzcs6B-3ZDI...........https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfvkmJ7AR0_


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## michaelmaltby (Mar 5, 2016)

No doubt ..... it's the "Brechtian" parody of American rock 'n roil that I called ... not the quality of the pipes.

The Reds have always used heavy firepower well ...


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## michaelmaltby (Jul 19, 2016)

Warthogs operate on Estonian Highways

Michigan National Guard A-10 Warthogs practice landing on Estonian highway


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## michaelmaltby (Aug 9, 2016)

Welcome to the war, America

http://www.politico.eu/article/amer...onald-trump-hillary-clinton-democrats-emails/


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## michaelmaltby (Aug 14, 2016)

Russian airpower on display ....


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca6ARA4V0v4_

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## michaelmaltby (Sep 12, 2016)

With NATO active in the country, here's an excellent primer on Estonia:



Where does Estonian come from? - Baltic Run


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## Shinpachi (Sep 12, 2016)

So educational.


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## gjs238 (Sep 14, 2016)

Language tree:
http://mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/196.jpg

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## michaelmaltby (Sep 14, 2016)

.... great post, thanks.

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## nuuumannn (Sep 14, 2016)

michaelmaltby said:


> With NATO active in the country, here's an excellent primer on Estonia:



I work with a Lithuanian fella and we regularly discuss the state of things over in that part of the world. We go into the history of the Baltic states quite often. Interesting discussions and to hear what 'the other side' thinks of the state of the world at present. He listens and watches Russian sponsored media, which puts a different spin on things compared to the West, so we have much to talk about. Understandably the discussion becomes quite heated at times, but he's a good sport.

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## michaelmaltby (Oct 8, 2016)

Upping the ante:
Russia transporting Iskander missile system to Kaliningrad


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## michaelmaltby (Oct 13, 2016)

Moscow recalls next-of-kin from overseas:
Russia orders all officials to fly home any relatives living abroad | Daily Mail Online


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## GrauGeist (Oct 13, 2016)

Russia has always been good at beating their shoe on the podium.

Now if the Kremlin ordered the citizens home, instead of recommending they return otherwise risk job promotion, then I would take notice.

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## Shinpachi (Oct 14, 2016)

Japan and Russia are discussing possible visit of Russian President Vladimir Putin to Tokyo in December
Read more: Japan, Russia Mulling Possibility of Putin's December Trip to Tokyo

Putin and Abe are said going to sign the peace treaty for the first time after the ww2 was over.
If true, this situation looks similar to the early 1941 when Stalin began to concentrate upon Nazi Germany.
Abe's most concern at the moment is China and he does not want European countries to stand on Chinese side in my view.


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## michaelmaltby (Oct 14, 2016)

... most interesting.


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 14, 2016)

It is. I thought the Islands were originally Japan's.


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## Shinpachi (Oct 14, 2016)

This may be a clue to understand the ongoing event in historical view.

Japan's Foreign Minister Yosuke Matsuoka signed Soviet-Japanese Neutrality Pact on April 13, 1941.
Matsuoka's niece Hiroko married Eisaku Sato - former Japanese PM.
Sato is brother of Nobusuke Kishi - also former Japanese PM.
Kishi is grandfather of Shinzo Abe - present Japanese PM.
Matsuoka is Abe's relative.

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## Shinpachi (Oct 14, 2016)

Corrected "Matsuoka's sister Hiroko" to "Matsuoka's niece Hiroko".
My apology.


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## michaelmaltby (Oct 16, 2016)

*Can you say Dogger Bank ...?*
The last time the Russian Navy pulled a stunt like this it ended up very badly for them. 
Granted ... they aren't headed long distance to the Sea of Japan 

Royal Navy to intercept Russian warship fleet heading for English Channel | Daily Mail Online

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## Shinpachi (Oct 16, 2016)

He seems financially severe as raising the fist on the other side.
Significant compromise on the territorial issue might be expected.


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## michaelmaltby (Oct 17, 2016)

Dogger Bank incident - Wikipedia

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## Shinpachi (Oct 17, 2016)

So informative, MM.
This is a good example of "What we thought impossible had been thought possible by our opponent".

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## michaelmaltby (Oct 17, 2016)

... and reinforces my seasoned opinion that history is never 'over' or behind us. It _cycles_ like the tides.

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## michaelmaltby (Oct 17, 2016)

"... compromise on the territorial issue might be expected."

Perhaps the opposite, _intransigence_ on territorial issues, might be what is required. 

The Finns know how to fight the Russians, in their back yard.

Finland prepares to defend Aland Islands against possible 'Russia's occupation'


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## michaelmaltby (Oct 17, 2016)

".... This is a good example of "What we thought impossible ..." 
As is this. Putin the Bond villain.

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## Shinpachi (Oct 17, 2016)

This is funny too

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## michaelmaltby (Oct 31, 2016)

This is reassuring and speaks to the political climate of the times:

Air Force Material Command Announces Plans To Keep A-10 Warthogs Flying 'Indefinitely'

This is the 'Sandy' of the next war ... and it will be nursed and nursed for survivability. Good thing.
Question: Can the canon handle other rounds besides the Depleted Uranium used for anti-armor ... perhaps an anti-personnel round?

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 4, 2016)

Hearts, minds and _disinformation_:

Expected Russian smear campaign in Latvia ‘beyond wrong’: Sajjan

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 4, 2016)

And the view from Poland:

bne IntelliNews - STOLYPIN: Warsaw's window on Western fears about Russia

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 6, 2016)

This from an Estonia acquaintance:

*Combating ‘Hybrid Warfare’ in Estonia*

*A failed communist takeover of Tallinn in 1924 contains valuable lessons for holding out against potential invaders. *

by Prem Mahadevan 28 October 2016 


There has been widespread speculation about whether the Estonian border city of Narva might someday see “little green men” appearing on its streets. The invasion of Crimea in 2014 has created a suspicion that frontier territories with a predominantly ethnic Russian population could soon be infiltrated by foreign troops in unmarked uniforms, who would engineer civil unrest, and eventually, irredentist movements. Narva, whose population is 82 percent ethnic Russian, is thought to be a likely target, given that an ethnic conflict in this spot would potentially expose NATO’s difficulties in combating “deniable” aggression, front-ended by local proxies. 


Reports from the ground suggest a mixed picture. Estonia’s troubled history with its Russian minority is real, but the worst days seem to have passed. Those ethnic Russians who wished to leave did so – mostly between 1991 and 1996 *(*1) *– after which emigration rates fell substantially. According to foreign journalists who have been to Narva, the city’s inhabitants now seem to put the local identity before the national one, whether Estonian or Russian. Some even see themselves as possibly having the best of both worlds.


At least one-third of the total population are Russian citizens with a legal residency status in Estonia, thus enjoying visa-free travel throughout Schengen Europe, and simultaneous access to business opportunities in the_Rodina (Mother Russia)_. They and their Estonian neighbors know that Russia, despite its international importance, only offers a more entertaining electronic media, but not a higher standard of living. In the absence of specific, inter-communal tension (as opposed to a more diffuse animosity toward some aspects of central government policy), there seems little chance of Narva becoming another Crimea or Donbas. And Estonian security officials know what to do in the event of foreign-sponsored insurrection. After all, their predecessors defeated one in 1924.


Little-known outside Estonia, the Moscow-backed 1 December 1924 uprising was a forerunner of the “hybrid” tactics used in Crimea 90 years later – with the exception that the number of local saboteurs and foreign agents was smaller, and Estonian counterintelligence was highly effective at disrupting their plans. The main instrument of subversion was the Estonian Communist Party, whose leaders were trained in Leningrad. They hoped to replicate the communist takeover of Georgia, which had occurred in February 1924 over a 13-day period. At that time, an uprising was launched by Georgian communists, who within 96 hours declared the formation of a revolutionary government, and appealed for military support from the Soviet Union. Such aid was immediately provided, and in less than two weeks, the Red Army occupied Tbilisi. It was assumed that a similar coup would produce identical results in Estonia.


According to a 1999 article in the_Baltic Defence Review, _Estonian officials knew beforehand most details about the planned uprising in 1924, except for the start date. However, they desisted from taking pre-emptive action against the plotters, because, once the coup took place, it would give them an excuse for a comprehensive crackdown on the Estonian Communist Party. Irrespective of whether this is an accurate interpretation of events, it’s undoubtable that the insurrection was poorly planned and executed. Instead of the expected 2,000 insurgents striking government facilities across the country, only 279 persons actually took to arms in the capital city Tallinn. The majority of them were only told about a general insurrection a few hours before it began – a tribute to the siege mentality felt by the local communist leadership, the result of previous Estonian police operations.


In less than six hours, a quarter of the time the coup planners estimated necessary before asking Moscow to intervene, the revolt collapsed. Confused teams of saboteurs met unexpectedly stiff resistance at government buildings that they had been instructed to seize. Seeing their subordinates dither, the masterminds promptly fled to the Soviet Union.


Small wonder then that *a top-ranking Estonian general recently observed that the most effective way to deal with any threat posed by “little green men” is to “shoot the first one to appear.”* As a small and prosperous state with a skilled workforce, Estonia offers few prospects for hostile agents to operate in a paramilitary role. This is because there is a smaller pool of manpower to fill the ranks of youth gangs within which foreign saboteurs can hide until activated (in Ukraine, such gangs played an ancillary role to the “green men” by disrupting public order during crucial moments of the takeover, thereby distracting the security response). But, as a sparsely populated country, Estonia also has limited capacity for resistance against a much stronger conventional opponent. Thus, the speed and decisiveness of a response are crucial.


The country has built a historical narrative that portrays the half-century of Soviet occupation in such a way that invading Russian soldiers can be sure of an unpleasant reception from civil defense militiamen. Even if occupying the entire country were not an objective, and a spate of civil unrest in Narva and a few other towns in eastern Estonia is all that plotters of a Crimea-type insurrection would hope for, it would still not make sense to trigger off public disturbances and then watch Estonian security forces arrest local “assets.”


What the historical example of Estonia suggests is that levels of affection (or alienation) from the state as a political entity are objectively less important in determining a nation’s capacity for resistance against a foreign threat. All that matters is to possess a vigilant security apparatus with extensive local surveillance networks, and a political leadership on the lookout for threats. Between them, these two attributes can ensure that any attempt to replicate the methods used in Crimea in March 2014 would meet the same fate as the Tallinn December 1924 uprising. 

____________________


*(*1) The occupying Russian troops withdrew from Estonian territory in 1994.*

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 8, 2016)

Nato puts 300,000 ground troops on 'high alert' over Russia tensions

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 13, 2016)

Britain to deploy batteries of high precision long range missiles on Russian’s border | Daily Mail Online

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 23, 2016)

Japan vows to respond to Russian missile deployment to disputed islands


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## GrauGeist (Nov 23, 2016)

Funny how Russia claims that a defense shield is grounds for deploying offensive weapons.

That is like saying "well, they locked their doors, so it forced me to break into their house"...

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## GrauGeist (Nov 23, 2016)

michaelmaltby said:


> This is reassuring and speaks to the political climate of the times:
> 
> Air Force Material Command Announces Plans To Keep A-10 Warthogs Flying 'Indefinitely'
> 
> ...


I meant to answer this a while back and kept forgetting (a sure sign of old age, perhaps?) 

Anyway, the ammunition types available for the GAU-8 are:
PGU-14/B API - Armor Piercing Incendiary. This is the Depleted Uranium round
PGU-13/B HEI - High Explosive Incendiary. This is one that's most often used against entrenched enemy personnel and soft targets and would be the best answer to your question - so yes.
PGU-15/B TP - Target Practice. While this isn't explosive, it would still rip any soft target to shreds - including bad guys.

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## Shinpachi (Nov 23, 2016)

Putin needs immediate money.


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## michaelmaltby (Nov 23, 2016)

Thanks GG for the follow-up 

Yes, Shin. I agree he needs $$$$. His lifestyle exceed his income.

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 28, 2016)

http://www.economist.com/news/europ...manship-just-case-estonia-counts-nato-worries

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 29, 2016)

Estonian Troops Have Never Fought a Cold War—Thanks to Pop-Up Saunas


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## Shinpachi (Nov 29, 2016)

Interesting.


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## michaelmaltby (Dec 8, 2016)

Fearing it could be Putin's next target, Estonia prepares for guerrilla warfare that could usher in WWIII

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## Old Wizard (Dec 8, 2016)




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## vikingBerserker (Dec 8, 2016)

Whoa


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## michaelmaltby (Dec 15, 2016)

Swedes told to prepare themselves 'in terms of war'

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## Torch (Dec 15, 2016)

US to send tanks, helicopters & 6,000 troops to join 1st E. Europe armored brigade deployment

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## michaelmaltby (Dec 18, 2016)

Narva, 1941

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## michaelmaltby (Dec 27, 2016)

Russia's nuclear-powered ice-breaker in the race to control the Arctic | Daily Mail Online

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## Old Wizard (Dec 27, 2016)




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## GrauGeist (Dec 27, 2016)

Meanwhile in Beijing:
China's aircraft carrier prowling Pacific - CNN.com

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## michaelmaltby (Jan 8, 2017)

Electronic Weapons: Never Bring Analog To A Digital Battle

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## michaelmaltby (Jan 10, 2017)

Good .... but unfortunately it didn't help Poland in September, 1939

UK’s Theresa May promises military support if Estonia is invaded

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## michaelmaltby (Jan 10, 2017)

Foreign Policy Doctrine ... for Mr Trump

European allies to Trump: Putin does not want to make America great again


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## michaelmaltby (Jan 31, 2017)

*Russian Exceptionalism * .... on display ... historically understandable ... to be expected

'Putin's Bridge' connecting Russia to Crimea might be having issues

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## vikingBerserker (Feb 1, 2017)

Interesting.


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## michaelmaltby (Feb 2, 2017)

The Baltic States in a Post-NATO Environment: An Interview with Edward Lucas

There _is_ concern .... but this is _not _September, 1939. Unless there is a Molotov-Ribentrop Pact lurking unseen in the depths.  But, lessons have been learned.

"... If America treated Canada the way that Russia has treated Ukraine, relations would be very different. America is strong because it has more allies than any other country has ever had in the history of the world. Russia doesn’t have any allies because it treats other countries very badly."


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## Wildcat (Feb 3, 2017)

michaelmaltby said:


> "... If America treated Canada the way that Russia has treated Ukraine, relations would be very different. America is strong because it has more allies than any other country has ever had in the history of the world.


Hey Mike, do us all a favour and pop over to that boofhead neighbour of yours and remind him that. Ta mate

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## michaelmaltby (Feb 3, 2017)

... time will be the best judge of that .... I don't have a crystal ball.


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## vikingBerserker (Feb 3, 2017)

michaelmaltby said:


> "... If America treated Canada the way that Russia has treated Ukraine, relations would be very different. America is strong because it has more allies than any other country has ever had in the history of the world. Russia doesn’t have any allies because it treats other countries very badly."



You kidding? Canada is one of those irritating countries you cannot hate even if you tried!

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## michaelmaltby (Feb 3, 2017)

too often, politically speaking, we are guilty of _feeding_ the crocodile, hoping we won't be eaten, but guaranteeing only that we will be the _last _to be eaten ...


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## michaelmaltby (Feb 8, 2017)

Putin orders Russia to prepare for a “time of war”

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## GrauGeist (Feb 8, 2017)

vikingBerserker said:


> You kidding? Canada is one of those irritating countries you cannot hate even if you tried!


You know we have to keep a close eye on those Canadians - have you ever seen one of their massive protests?

Not a pretty sight...

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## stona (Feb 8, 2017)

Well Canada's contribution to NATO will annoy Trump. At about 1% of GDP it is just half what everyone agreed it should be. Only Italy contributes a lower percentage of GDP and then only marginally.

Most people in the UK might not much like Trump, but on this he has a fair point. We contribute about 2.2% of our GDP a number exceeded only by Greece (yes, Greece) and the US themselves. Estonia and Poland receive an honourable mention by also exceeding or meeting the 2% mark.

Cheers

Steve

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## michaelmaltby (Feb 10, 2017)

Just finished reading The Maisky Diaries. Ivan Maisky was Stalin's ambassador to Britain 1932-1943 and the book is very revealing of both personalities and behind the scenes events.
I knew nothing of the Anglo-Soviet Pact signed July 24, 1941 .. between Stalin and Churchill. Unwritten but understood was Churchill's acceptance of the Soviet need to control the Baltic States .... acceptance of the 1940 Line ... which was the Molotov-Ribbentrop Line.
Churchill said: "rather a Soviet Baltic than a German Baltic"

Good background for 2017:

Churchill's Deal With the Devil: The Anglo-Soviet Agreement of 1941 | Defense Media Network

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## GrauGeist (Feb 11, 2017)

It seems to me that Churchill was too generous to Stalin on many accounts.

And why he would allow so many concessions, I have no idea...


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## stona (Feb 11, 2017)

GrauGeist said:


> And why he would allow so many concessions, I have no idea...



Because he was continually undermined by Roosevelt and then Truman, both who seem to have had rose tinted spectacles super-glued to their noses when dealing with the USSR.
Cheers
Steve

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## michaelmaltby (Feb 11, 2017)

... he and FDR were both out-maneuvered by Stalin from what I can deduce from various readings. Between 1939 and 1941, Hitler too was out-maneuvered repeatedly, especially in the realm of _economic co-operation_ that was associated with the M-R Pact. Stalin's view was that Hitler needed him and Russia more than he needed Hitler-Germany. His view changed to increasing alarm after the swift fall of France in June, 1940.


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## michaelmaltby (Feb 11, 2017)

"... Because he was continually undermined by Roosevelt"

Less true in the period from June, 1941 until after the Torch landing and the Morocco conference, IIUC.


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## michaelmaltby (Mar 11, 2017)

*Brace yourself ...*

Brace Yourself for a New Cold War

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## michaelmaltby (Mar 17, 2017)

*Myths About Beria ....*

This fascinating Russian (translation available) article about Stalin's fellow Georgian, Beria, sets out a very different set of achievements from the common view ... plus presenting an interesting theory about his execution. Worth reading.

Мифы о Лаврентии Берия

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## aurora-7 (Mar 17, 2017)

michaelmaltby said:


> "... Because he was continually undermined by Roosevelt"
> 
> Less true in the period from June, 1941 until after the Torch landing and the Morocco conference, IIUC.



I had always gotten the impression Churchill despised Stalin almost as much as Hitler, but given the choice, he'd rather deal with Stalin.

That said, he really didn't like Stalin as a leader and Roosevelt (and I'm a BIG Franklinphile) never perceived Stalin to be the threat he turned out to be. He saw Churchill's concerns as just British worry about what it would mean for their empire.

Essentially, Churchill saw the potential threat Stalin could be but Roosevelt didn't.

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## michaelmaltby (Mar 18, 2017)

Aurora, may I suggest you read Miasky's Diaries
Amazon product
_View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Maisky-Diaries-Ambassador-Jamess-1932-1943/dp/0300180675_

It will re-orient you as it did me ...  I believe.


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## aurora-7 (Mar 30, 2017)

I don't know, Mike. I have no doubt Churchill realized his dependency on the Soviets but that doesn't translate into true admiration for Stalin. I think Churchill's conversations with Maisky was calculated insurance. 

Even Hitler and Stalin started as allies while harboring real hatred for each other. 

I think Churchill was desperate to want to keep Stalin engaged in the war as Russia was the most serious threat in continental Europe to Nazi Germany and still recognize what Stalin was in reality - a murderous dictator but one that was on the allies side and one that may a problem in some future time.


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## michaelmaltby (Mar 31, 2017)

"...Essentially, Churchill saw the potential threat Stalin could be but Roosevelt didn't."

No argument, however Churchill did not "despise" Stalin, IMO ... he _feared_ him because he understood what Stalin was capable of. An intelligent person doesn't despise evil.

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## michaelmaltby (Apr 23, 2017)

Estonia: the Little SpyCatcher Who Could

Estonia: The Little Spycatcher Who Could

great read. timely.


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 27, 2017)

The 10th anniversary of CyberWar I ....

A Decade After "Web War 1," Former Estonian President Blasts EU Cyber Inertia

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## michaelmaltby (May 8, 2017)

Hockey will protect Canadian troops from Russian honey pots ...

Matthew Fisher: How Canadian commanders will use hockey to keep soldiers safe from Russian 'honey pots'

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## michaelmaltby (Jun 16, 2017)

.... ugly ... but expected

Anti-Canada propaganda greets troops in Latvia

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## michaelmaltby (Jul 21, 2017)

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ya-FGHdBso_

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## michaelmaltby (Jul 30, 2017)

How a tiny Baltic nation became a top destination for U.S. officials

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## michaelmaltby (Jul 31, 2017)

Vice President Pence and Estonian President, Kersti Kaljulaid, July 31, 2017

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## Old Wizard (Jul 31, 2017)




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## vikingBerserker (Aug 1, 2017)

Very cool


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## swampyankee (Aug 1, 2017)

I suspect part of the reason was that many conservatives conflated the external security threat of the USSR with the internal security threat of bolshevism, the latter frequently to the point of hysteria (ooh.. workers want to actually be paid enough to live, it must be them commies causing them to be so disobedient )and both Roosevelt and Truman carried their disdain for that sort of inanity to discounting Stalin as an external security threat. The conservatives were seen crying wolf, in seeing communists behind any protest, and they may have felt that the antipathy to Stalin was just the same sort of thing. 

I've also wondered how different history would have played out had the Bolshevik Revolution failed. I don't think Germany's post-WWI politics would have played out any differently, nor do I think would most other countries', but without the Soviet bugbear, Hitler may have been dealt with earlier. (I also think any Russian government would have invaded Ukraine, Georgia, Poland, the Baltics, and Finland;it's not like Russia had a history of playing nice with its neighbors)


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## michaelmaltby (Aug 1, 2017)

If the 1917 revolution had failed, yes, history might have been very different and we can speculate on that however I can't endorse your claim: "... The conservatives were seen crying wolf, in seeing communists behind any protest, and they may have felt that the antipathy to Stalin was just the same sort of thing. "

Stalin _was _the Comintern until he disbanded it as an irritant to his relationship with GB and USA. From the signing of the M-R Pact in August, 1939, until Barbarossa in June, 1941, the mandate the Comintern issued to French, British, US unions and 'activists' was to hamper by strike and demonstration the allied efforts to rearm in preparation for war.

General Motors President/Lt General William Knutsen, an industrial genius reported to FDR that the major roadblock to industrial militarization and productivity was industrial strike action and protest. He knew his stuff better than anyone and was not a man to cry wolf.

All changed of course after June 22, 1941. Communists are masters of bending logic to ideology ... not unlike unhelpful voices like Al Gore, Jane Fonda and others of their colour. _After _the German attack it was the ceaseless bleating of "Second Front _NOW_!!!!" regardless of the realities of supply, strategy and geography. This was communism.

As for Russian_ territorial_ ambitions ... the Baltic Democracies, Ukraine and much else were seized by Peter the Great, Catherine the Great and subsequent Russian leaders. Putin is simply trying to roll back history to a previous status and this needs to be understood clearly. Cyber hacking in Russia is completely in character with Soviet KGB practices.

The secret police of Tsarist Russia was the largest such service in Europe .... all in character with an oligarchy/kleptocracy.


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## swampyankee (Aug 2, 2017)

Maybe Knutsen wasn't, but assuming that industrial action was universally due to communists -- Ford probably blamed Jews -- was a technique used by some employers, especially large ones, to get the government to help them continue maltreating employees. Knutsen was far better than Ford, who hired people to beat the carp out employees.

Certainly, not all large employers blamed communists, but many did, and blaming outsiders and foreigners for poor employee--employer relations has a long and dishonorable history.


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## michaelmaltby (Aug 2, 2017)

".... blaming outsiders and foreigners for poor employee--employer relations has a long and dishonorable history."
True .... but International Communism was never and has never been a _chimera_ ... are you watching Venezuela? The Capitalist economy has been destroyed and citizens deprived and mistreated by the "state" on a far larger scale than anyone could imagine in this day and age when communism has been so universally discredited and rejected worldwide.


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## swampyankee (Aug 2, 2017)

I'm watching Venezuela being turned into non-democratic state, yes, but the late Chavez and his cronies be any different had they been claiming any other ideology to justify their aggrandizement and grab for power? Are they really any different from Papa Doc Duvalier? 

Their common ideology is kleptocracy. They could call themselves anything and the result would be the same. 

In any case, Venezuela now doesn't mean that attributing all unrest to some Red Menace was valid; this seems to have been a common belief "our good {American|British|German|etc} workers can't be unhappy on their own; it must be some evil outsiders." Just because a threat exists, it doesn't mean that it's the cause of everything one doesn't like.


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## michaelmaltby (Aug 2, 2017)

"... Are they really any different from Papa Doc Duvalier?"

Along with his son, loathsome figures, no doubt, but they never destroyed the Haitian economy and during my visit I found it was absolutely safe to travel anywhere at any time ... alone.

".. attributing all unrest to some Red Menace was valid"

Only the Red "menace" was _self-declared_ proponent of world revolution ...._ their_ words and actions invited fear and distrust. This was a conspiracy in the real sense of the word and reacting accordingly was not and is not paranoia.


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## swampyankee (Aug 3, 2017)

I think we are, to some extent, talking past each other: it was to Stalin and Lenin's benefit to destabilize the democracies, by playing to the fears of the people dominating government and industry: we've seen the same sort of communism to the democratic nations was to their benefit, and many of the members of the ruling classes took the bait hook, line, and sinker. Lenin and Stalin knew that the best environment for success was repressive rulers and dissatisfied workers, and the economic conditions that many countries faced following the Great War, such as the number of British coal mines that were no longer economically viable, would cause economic disruption and worker dissatisfaction.

Incidentally, Haiti was the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere under Duvalier. He obviously managed the economy magnificently.


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## michaelmaltby (Aug 4, 2017)

.... people were poor ... they weren't starving


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## swampyankee (Aug 5, 2017)

michaelmaltby said:


> .... people were poor ... they weren't starving


That's not what the data show: there was starvation during Duvalier's regime, especially during Baby Doc's. See, for example Haitians overthrow regime, 1984-1986 | Global Nonviolent Action Database.

Communist regimes don't have a monopoly on starving their people.


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## michaelmaltby (Aug 5, 2017)

Read with interest .... no one is suggesting Communist regimes have a monopoly on mistreatment ... however, your link doesn't jib with my own observations traveling widely in Cuba, 1972, and Haiti, 1973 .... two very different nations with different histories but both sharing origins of colonialism and poverty.
Canada (Quebec) is currently being deluged by Haitian refugees escaping the US. They understand the meaning of hard work and are productive ... and are not saddled with socialist notions of entitlement.

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## swampyankee (Aug 6, 2017)

No, they're not. Few, if any, immigrants are. Indeed, if one looks at the statistics some of the most dependent populations in the US are rural ones that have been here for generations. The US also has a history of treating Haitian immigrants much more harshly than those from Cuba, possibly on racial grounds.

There do seem to be, however, large numbers of people who believe maltreatment of people is limited to a particular group or ideology, whether it be political or religious; I'm not including you in this group. Most of the communist regimes came to power because they overthrew some form of absolutist regime, like Battista or the czar (yes, I know the czar had abdicated before the bolsheviks took over, but his successor's hold on power was still tenuous. He was also naive, in arming the bolsheviks out of fear of an encroaching pro-czar force which turned out to be illusory), not because they replaced a democratic system.

As an aside, when I was in college, our assigned readings included Lenin. Read him and you will find one of the most cynical, self-aggrandizing, power-obsessed human beings to ever inhale. No wonder the Germans chose him to be the ultimate weapon to get Russia out of the war.

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## michaelmaltby (Aug 22, 2017)

A-10 Warthog operating with US FACs on Estonian highway, August 10

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## Old Wizard (Aug 22, 2017)




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## michaelmaltby (Sep 14, 2017)

Enter China: Minsk deepens military ties with Beijing ahead of Zapad 2017 - CEPA STRATCOM PROGRAM.


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## michaelmaltby (Nov 18, 2017)

expected .....
Russian fake-news campaign against Canadian troops in Latvia includes propaganda about litter, luxury apartments

I would like to release a documentary film called "Raping Germany - A Soviet Legacy"

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## Shinpachi (Nov 18, 2017)

Yes, fake-news must be pointed out.


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## michaelmaltby (Nov 23, 2017)

Lessons from Zapad – jamming, NATO and the future of Belarus

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## michaelmaltby (Dec 18, 2017)

ESTONIAN Tactical Air Support Controllers train in Kansas with National Guard Units. A first.

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## michaelmaltby (Jan 10, 2018)

US Navy ruffles Russian feathers in the Black Sea

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## michaelmaltby (May 27, 2018)

*Saber Strike 18 .... Russian raportage*
1,400 US soldiers & 400 vehicles head to Baltics for Saber Strike drills (PHOTOS)
and this ...
Israel to participate in Saber Strike 18 exercise in June

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## michaelmaltby (Jun 4, 2018)

At least they're asking the _right _questions ..... you know, as opposed to the _[wrong] _questions
Window on Eurasia -- New Series: A Moscow Paper Asks a Most Inconvenient Question: ‘What is the Secret of Estonia’s Success?’
[edit]

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## Shinpachi (Jun 4, 2018)

The geopolitical position looks similar to North Korea.
People would need utmost wisdom to survive.
Thanks for sharing, MM.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 4, 2018)

I would much rather prefer we keep the _left_ vs. _right_ politics off of this forum.

Actually I don’t prefer it, the forum rules on politics is quite clear...

This thread is no different, and will be closed if needed.


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## michaelmaltby (Jun 7, 2018)

Here’s how the US is preparing for a possible Russian attack in Europe

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## Shinpachi (Jun 8, 2018)

In July 1941, under the name of special drill, Japan deployed 700,000 troops along the Soviet-Manchuria border to rivet the Soviet troops in the Far East. I hear Stalin was in panic as he could not concentrate on the battle with Germans. History teaches.


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## michaelmaltby (Jun 10, 2018)

I did not know _that_ ... about the 700,000 troop deployment .... it didn't help the Soviet situation that Stalin was so skeptical/paranoid about his intelligence sources such as Richard Sorge
Richard Sorge - Wikipedia


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## Shinpachi (Jun 10, 2018)

The 700,000 troops could be easily confirmed without spies.
This historical incident to support Hitler was why Stalin justified his invasion to the Kuril Islands in August 1945 to occupy Japanese territory. Modern Russia inherits his view.

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## michaelmaltby (Jun 10, 2018)

live and learn ... thank you, Shin

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## michaelmaltby (Jun 17, 2018)

This is why A-10s have been training to land on highways near Russia

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## vikingBerserker (Jun 18, 2018)

Very cool!


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## Glider (Jun 18, 2018)

Anything an A10 can do
Check out approx. 2.10 to 3 mins and from about 5 min

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4_CpSFIfwU_

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## swampyankee (Jun 18, 2018)

Glider said:


> Anything an A10 can do
> Check out approx. 2.10 to 3 mins and from about 5 min
> 
> _View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4_CpSFIfwU_



Aren't the Jaguars out of service, at least with the RAF?

Although, there is the Gripen...


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## michaelmaltby (Jun 18, 2018)

... lovely jet, very impressive! Did they ever see combat .... GW#1 or #2?
The_ point_ of my post was not the A-10, per se, but CAS aircraft operating in tactical situations on Russia's door step. NATO_ must_ do this, IMO ... the Baltic Republics were thrown under the bus in 1939-40 and again at Yalta in 1945 ... as was Poland.
BTW I have seen footage of Norwegian F-104 Starfighters operating from highways back in the day ... hardly an ideal CAS platform but the operational flexibility will always be important.


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## swampyankee (Jun 18, 2018)

michaelmaltby said:


> ... lovely jet, very impressive! Did they ever see combat .... GW#1 or #2?
> The_ point_ of my post was not the A-10, per se, but CAS aircraft operating in tactical situations on Russia's door step. NATO_ must_ do this, IMO ... the Baltic Republics were thrown under the bus in 1939-40 and again at Yalta in 1945 ... as was Poland.
> BTW I have seen footage of Norwegian F- 104 Starfighters operating from highways back in the day ... hardly an ideal CAS platform but the operational flexibility will always be important.



Jaguars? Yes, with the French Air Force in GW1.

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## Glider (Jun 18, 2018)

RAF Jaguars also operated in GW1 when all the publicity went to the Harrier and Tornado but the Jaguar had no losses, and the Indian Airforce are (I think) fully modernising their aircraft.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 18, 2018)

Glider said:


> RAF Jaguars also operated in GW1 when all the publicity went to the Harrier and Tornado but the Jaguar had no losses, and the Indian Airforce are (I think) fully modernising their aircraft.



The Indian Airforce is currently the only operator.

On 04 June 2018 they lost one in a crash, killing the pilot.

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## michaelmaltby (Jun 30, 2018)

Meanwhile, _Poland_ willingly will spend serious $$$$ to _host _America
U.S. assessing cost of keeping troops in Germany as Trump battles with Europe

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## michaelmaltby (Sep 17, 2018)

Operation Vostok, August 2018

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhPCwxCytq0_


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## Glider (Sep 17, 2018)

To me it looks a lot more like a PR exercise and not a learning exercise. You only really learn lessons when you move large numbers of troops from A to B, How you feed, supply and generally support them in a battle of movement. How the troops move deploy and fight when things aren't following a script, when the opposition can use their initiative and surprise, you, when communications are being disrupted.

I certainly could be wrong but I see nothing of this.


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## Shinpachi (Sep 17, 2018)

So Kim Jong-un looks healthy and relaxed recently

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## michaelmaltby (Sep 17, 2018)

Glider, I agree with your observations, but the value in these exercises is to watch the opposition and their kit .... the US exercise earlier in the summer which involved shipping across the Atlantic was far more useful as a learning experience.


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## Glider (Sep 17, 2018)

michaelmaltby said:


> Glider, I agree with your observations, but the value in these exercises is to watch the opposition and their kit .... the US exercise earlier in the summer which involved shipping across the Atlantic was far more useful as a learning experience.


Totally agree. All that towed artillery in a nice straight line would be an A10 jockey's Christmas and Birthday, all rolled into one.

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## michaelmaltby (Sep 17, 2018)

.... how a nation conducts its 'military exercises' speaks volumes about the kind of regime putting on the show ... and what they expect to achieve from the effort and expense. The Soviets favored the objective of intimidation ... Stalin mastered this format in November 7, 1941, and it worked beyond expectations. The US exercises always feature _partnerships _with stake holder allies ... of course they are meant to intimidate ... but they speak to solid partnerships ... NATO needs to up its game with or without the USA, IMHO.

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## nuuumannn (Sep 23, 2018)

swampyankee said:


> Aren't the Jaguars out of service, at least with the RAF?



Ah, the SEPECAT Jaguar, an aircraft whose take off run is counted as part of its combat radius...

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## soulezoo (Sep 24, 2018)

nuuumannn said:


> Ah, the SEPECAT Jaguar, an aircraft whose take off run is counted as part of its combat radius...


Which is once around the flag pole...


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## michaelmaltby (Nov 2, 2018)

*Oooops ....*
Huge Floating Dry Dock Holding Russia's Only Aircraft Carrier Has Accidentally Sunk (Updated)

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## Glider (Nov 2, 2018)

soulezoo said:


> Which is once around the flag pole...


I always thought it had quite a decent range. I know the Indian Air Force used the Mig 23/27 for shorter range attack missions and the Jaguar for longer range missions.


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## Glider (Nov 2, 2018)

This is an interesting video, worrying if you are Russian and calming if your not keen on Russia.
What Oddities Can You Spot In This Tour Of Russia’s Aging Aircraft Carrier?

What I find interesting is just how run down she is and right at the end a Lynx is shown doing some form of transfer flight.


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## Dimlee (Nov 5, 2018)

michaelmaltby said:


> *Oooops ....*
> Huge Floating Dry Dock Holding Russia's Only Aircraft Carrier Has Accidentally Sunk (Updated)



Most probably Russia' Navy will never release the video of this particular incident. But something similar has happened earlier at another Russian shipyard (Slavyanka, Far East). It gives an idea of what the sinking dock looks like... and the falling cranes.

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## michaelmaltby (Feb 15, 2019)

_*Russia is surrounded by enemies *_....

Battle Group Poland performs winter live fire training during Operation Raider Lightning at Bemowo Piskie Training Area, Poland, Jan. 16. Battle Group Poland is a unique, multinational coalition of U.S., U.K., Croatian and Romanian Soldiers who serve with the Polish Armed Forces 15th Mechanised Brigade as a deterrence in support of NATO’s Enhanced Forward Presence. (Photos by 1Lt. Christina Shoptaw)





.


Russia is NOT landlocked.
.. Russia's future lies on the _Pacific_ Coast and Asia Markets.

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## Dimlee (Feb 23, 2019)

michaelmaltby said:


> .. Russia's future lies on the _Pacific_ Coast and Asia Markets.



Well... That had been proclaimed many times in the history of the Russian Empire, of the Soviet Union and of the Russian Federation.
Relatively short periods of activity during another leap of all country to catch up with the West... and then longer periods of stagnation when Far Eastern regions were neglected by Moscow bureaucracy.
I lived there and worked and travelled from Posyet Bay in Primorye up to Anadyr in Chukotka and further north via the Strait of Bering to Ambarchik. Huge region with enormous potential. Fantastic landscapes. Unfortunate history.
Some day the dreams will come true... Unless Chinese decide otherwise.


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## michaelmaltby (Feb 23, 2019)

Interesting .... I appreciate your personal experience

"dreams will come true..."

Russia is surrounded by CUSTOMERS

_That _thinking could be Russia's game changer that could make the dreams come true


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## michaelmaltby (Feb 23, 2019)

_*Alpine, deep snow, training*_

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## GrauGeist (Feb 23, 2019)

michaelmaltby said:


> _*Alpine, deep snow, training*_



My stepdad mentioned some (but not all) of his experiences at the Battle of Chosin and it was almost incomprehensible the weather and battle conditions they had to deal with.

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## Glider (Feb 23, 2019)

There is another reason why Russia is weaker than most people realise and that is its population. It's population is about 143 million whereas the UK, France and Germany equal 210 million and if we include the other European countries considerably more. On average each of those Russian citizens aren't nearly as wealthy or as well educated, or as healthy as a European citizen.
Life expectancy:-
Germany 81
France 82.4
UK 81.2
Russia 70.5

It should also be noted that the population of Russia has basically levelled off but almost every other county has seen a consistent rise.

Economic Strength by GDP 2018 in millions
Germany $ 4,029,140 
France $ 2,749,696
UK $ 2,808,899
Russia $ 1,576,488

Technology is also important. The West has always had a lead in technology over Russia but that lead is now getting larger and it's quite possible that Russia will lack the economic power to compete. There is a good argument to be put in that the cold war was lost because the Soviet Union didn't have the economic strength to compete and I would suggest that their position is weaker now then ever before. There areas of course where they can concentrate their efforts and be as good as the best but not everywhere.

This is why China is such a major threat to Russia. It has the population, increasing economic power and its technology base is growing at a very impressive rate. Overall I wouldn't hesitate to say that in the near future China's military capability will be considerably greater than Russia's.

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## michaelmaltby (Feb 24, 2019)

Chosin was a great victory for the US Marines and a real test of the capability for air power ... both close air support and heavy lift, from the Boxcars. Air dropping sections of Treadway bridge in a mountainous valley, on target, was a most amazing achievement, IMO.
US Marines and Royal Marines fought together ... and learned from each other.
Thanks, GrauGeist


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## swampyankee (Feb 24, 2019)

Glider said:


> There is another reason why Russia is weaker than most people realise and that is its population. It's population is about 143 million whereas the UK, France and Germany equal 210 million and if we include the other European countries considerably more. On average each of those Russian citizens aren't nearly as wealthy or as well educated, or as healthy as a European citizen.
> Life expectancy:-
> Germany 81
> France 82.4
> ...




I'm not sure of the current numbers, but I remember reading most Western European countries would have negative population growth if it weren't for immigrants. I don't know whether that's the case for Russia.

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## michaelmaltby (Feb 24, 2019)

... male life-expectancy has shrunk ...


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## Dimlee (Feb 26, 2019)

swampyankee said:


> I'm not sure of the current numbers, but I remember reading most Western European countries would have negative population growth if it weren't for immigrants. I don't know whether that's the case for Russia.



Same for Russia, indeed. Population growth curve went down and up in the post USSR period and down again recently. Migration from Central Asia plays large role in supporting the growth. Also higher birth rates in North Cacausus and other regions with large proportion of Muslims.

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## Dimlee (Feb 26, 2019)

In the meantime.

Mr.Putin has talked again about his _Wunderwaffe_ in the annual speech recently. 
Mr.Kiselyov (TV anchor at Rossiya 24 state channel) decided to elaborate and to explain to the public how this _Wunderwaffe_ (or _Vergeltungswaffen_?) will be used. List of targets was described in details and shown on the screen.
From 03:21 to 05:56. English subtitles are available.


Ah, and that slogan on the screen means "Zircon as a justice". "Zircon" - the name of the V-weapon which is talked about. According to Moscow's PR channels this "Zircon" is hypersonic, unstoppable, invincible, can be used from any platform: ground, air, sea (surface and submersible), etc.
The only thing I miss in Mr.Kiselyov's presentation is some cheerful music. As _Bomben auf Engelland_, for example.

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## michaelmaltby (Feb 26, 2019)

... I appreciate the TV report, Dimlee, and your apt comparison. Big Rooster Trump earns escalation in return from Big Rooster Vlad,
Russia warns US Air Force chief to ‘remember Vietnam’ after he touts F-35


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## Dimlee (Feb 26, 2019)

Michael, you are welcome.

As for the Russian Federation (RF) Embassy remark...what a travesty. The history of 1950-1970s wars in Indochina was extremely politicised in USSR. And this legacy lives on in modern RF, unfortunately. Most of post 1991 domestic publications about those wars (excluding purely military and technical ones based on translated "Western" sources) just repeat in one way or another all USSR/SRV myths. Level of ignorance is unbelievable. I'm not surprised when I read in "expert" article that Linebacker II ended up in USA complete defeat and demonstrated superiority of the Soviet systems and it was Hanoi who coerced Americans to come back to the negotiations.
So, when they say "Vietnam" they do not know what they talk about. Ignorant and pompous...

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## michaelmaltby (Feb 26, 2019)

.... do you have any pictures of your years working in the far east, west coast, of Russia that you could share ...?


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## GrauGeist (Feb 27, 2019)

Interesting to see how people seem to have forgotten about NORAD's capabilities including the modern low orbit system that can alert NORAD of a launch anywhere in the world within seconds.

That's how they know about North Korea's shenanigans the moment Kim Ding-Dong launches anything.

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## Dimlee (Feb 28, 2019)

michaelmaltby said:


> .... do you have any pictures of your years working in the far east, west coast, of Russia that you could share ...?



It was in 1980s/early 1990s... I still have some black and white and slide film rolls somewhere in boxes. Not scanned yet, unfortunately.


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## michaelmaltby (Feb 28, 2019)

... I know the situation, Dimlee. ... I have tons of material that I will never, ever scan.
But, not to be denied, , may I suggest you see what photos you like on the Internet that are 'familiar' (representative) and simply forward some of those.
I listen to books on Audible, Soviet-German events are of great interest to me .... when I hear of place names or features e.g. Taganrod or Taman Peninsula, I google the name and get an impression of the terrain and development.
I know it's doing two things at once ... listening and googling ... but _that_ seems to be today's world, doesn't it?


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## Dimlee (Mar 1, 2019)

Michael, please see PM.


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## michaelmaltby (Mar 8, 2019)

Interesting footage


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## GrauGeist (Mar 8, 2019)

Fascinating...


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## Dimlee (Mar 11, 2019)

Valery Gerasimov, Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russian Federation.

In January 2013, Mr.Gerasimov has accused "The West" in developing the doctrine of hybrid war: the use of nonmilitary means to achieve strategic aims. (his report at the meeting of the Academy of Military Science).

One month later in February 2013, Mr.Gerasimov has published the article “The Value of Science is in the Foresight” in the weekly Russian trade paper Military-Industrial Kurier. He wrote: _“The very ‘rules of war’ have changed. The role of nonmilitary means of achieving political and strategic goals has grown, and, in many cases, they have exceeded the power of force of weapons in their effectiveness … All this is supplemented by military means of a concealed character.”_

One year later, in February-March 2014, nonmilitary means (supplemented by military means of a concealed character) were used to achieve strategic aims, yet not by "West" but by Russian Federation.

Now comes March 2019...
_“The Pentagon has started developing a completely new strategy of military action, which has already been christened the ‘Trojan Horse,’” _said Valery Gerasimov, the chief of the Armed Forces General Staff at the meeting in the Academy of Military Sciences on 02 March, 2019 (the same Academy, again). _“Its essence lies in the active use of the ‘fifth column protest potential’ to destabilize the situation along with simultaneous precision strikes on the most important targets.”_
The Week In Russia: Gerasimov's Trojan Horse And A Tabloid's Tip For Putin

Let's see what and where happens in one year.

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## GrauGeist (Mar 11, 2019)

Yeah, the Crimea and Ukraine were thinly disguised invasions.

In the past few years, Estonia has had escalating tensions with Russia where there's been several demonstrations break out (hauntingly similar to the Ukraine demonstrations) and several of the demonstrators arrested are Russian FSO.
Other incidents include Estonian border guards who are kidnapped on Estonian soil by Russian FSB and held for mock trials as "spies".
Putin is playing a very dangerous game...

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## Dimlee (Mar 12, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> Putin is playing a very dangerous game...



There is opinion that there is "collective Putin". Well, a single individual or some group, but rising of stakes is obvious.

Professor Valery Solovei, historian and political analyst, recently elaborated on current mind set of the Kremlin "elites".
Link to the interview is below, there are English subtitles but of low quality.
My own translation of some important statements of the professor.
"Unfortunately, I’ll say that we are preparing for a large-scale conflict... We would like it to be short, but we are preparing, apparently, for large-scale one. In my opinion, this is obvious.
...
The strategic course that is chosen is the subject of personal conviction of a group of people who determine Russian policies, and not only of just Vladimir Vladimirovich {Putin}. This is the subject of their personal convictions, even of their *faith*, if you like. They are certain that following this course will lead Russia and them personally to success, they have no doubt about it.
...
Within their picture of the world, this is a global game, a global bet.
...
Russia has now received a unique chance to take _revanche_ for the demise of the Soviet Union. That is, you can *replay the history, with just a single throw of a dice*, do you see? This is a huge temptation. The group of elites that makes decisions has a common inner conviction that they are entrusted with the highest mission, moreover, *the mission of a mystical religious nature*, yes, to replay world history, and this group follows this mission.
In this sense, this group is moving towards its goal very logically, very consistently and purposefully, - until it bumps into insurmountable obstacles."

Professor himself is cautiously optimistic. He thinks that those "global" plans will be undermined by internal problems and by silent sabotage of government servants at lower levels - who value their families and well being more than "The Mission". After all, it happened before in the USSR history...


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## michaelmaltby (Mar 13, 2019)

Great post D. Thank you. I am currently reading a biography of Peter the Great ... in Russia ... history tells that _nothing_ is beyond possibility ... and there are _patterns._


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## michaelmaltby (Mar 13, 2019)

Every democracy contains four boxes:

The Soap Box
The Ballot Box
The Jury Box
The Cartridge Box

To remain healthy, all four must be well maintained and protected from the rust of corruption.

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## Torch (Mar 13, 2019)

michaelmaltby said:


> Every democracy contains four boxes:
> 
> The Soap Box
> The Ballot Box
> ...


Do you know who made that quote?


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## michaelmaltby (Mar 13, 2019)

Do not know where it originated, T, but I saw it first here:
Deal. – Day By Day

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## wlewisiii (Mar 13, 2019)

In the modern world, it is nothing but a fantasy. Even with outside support (weapons, ammunitions, explosives, etc) the usual end result of an insurgency against a government is dead insurgents. The less support, the faster they die.

The only time this changes is when the insurgents are a proxy arm of a superpower that is willing to sink in unlimited support: The VC or the anti-Ukraine forces are examples.

But in the end, civilian small arms are meaningless in a world of MQ-1 Predator drones and AGM-114 Hellfire missiles.

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## michaelmaltby (Mar 13, 2019)

... nothing is 'certain' ...


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## GrauGeist (Mar 13, 2019)

Civilian small arms are meaningless unless you're dealing with the U.S., which has more privately held arms (of various types) than several of the world's militaries combined (last estimated to be nearly 400 million)

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## michaelmaltby (Jul 16, 2019)

The US Air Force’s top general gets a taste of Finnish fighter tactics

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## Sid327 (Sep 8, 2019)

GregP said:


> Let's not forget all the Russian aviation firsts including the surprise landing of the ANT-25 in the USA, Korea, Sputnik, or Afganistan. The Russians/Soviets have been innovators for many decades in aviation and weapons.
> 
> Nationalism is fine until it dulls your sense of wariness to the continuing threat. I'd MUCH rather make them friends than continuing to see them as enemies. That assumes they can follow their agreements ... and so can WE. I'm not all that sure why we are "us" and they are "them" at this time other than by tradition. What I need is real statement of what our two purposes and ideologies are rather than propaganda.
> 
> ...




This is the most sensible and un-biased post that I have read in this (mostly) blatantly biased thread...
Which is surprising as most of this thread could be seen as pushing western propaganda and politics.
......Not nice considering the varied nationalities on this forum.

Rather than throwing accusations and getting on the Russophobia band-wagon wouldn't it show better integrity to accept different cultures and look for ways of acting in a more friendly and helpful way with other countries rather than being opinionated and outspoken about why they don't do things the way the USA/Europe does?


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## Sid327 (Sep 8, 2019)

michaelmaltby said:


> The Baltic States in a Post-NATO Environment: An Interview with Edward Lucas
> 
> There _is_ concern .... but this is _not _September, 1939. Unless there is a Molotov-Ribentrop Pact lurking unseen in the depths.  But, lessons have been learned.
> 
> "... If America treated Canada the way that Russia has treated Ukraine, relations would be very different. America is strong because it has more allies than any other country has ever had in the history of the world. Russia doesn’t have any allies because it treats other countries very badly."




This report is from Canada.

What America Should Know about "Annexed Crimea": "We the People of Crimea…" - Global Research


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## Sid327 (Sep 8, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> Yeah, the Crimea and Ukraine were thinly disguised invasions.
> 
> In the past few years, Estonia has had escalating tensions with Russia where there's been several demonstrations break out (hauntingly similar to the Ukraine demonstrations) and several of the demonstrators arrested are Russian FSO.
> Other incidents include Estonian border guards who are kidnapped on Estonian soil by Russian FSB and held for mock trials as "spies".
> Putin is playing a very dangerous game...



You have to look at both sides of the story.
MSM is mostly fake news, that's pretty well know by most free thinking people now.

East Ukraine is populated by more than 8 million ethnic Russians who want nothing to do with the EU. Can you blame them?
Russians in Ukraine - Wikipedia

Ukraine turned like this before in WW2 where the (mostly) Western part of Ukraine tried to side with Germany and persecuted the Jews big time.
Lviv pogroms (1941) - Wikipedia

The Northern, Eastern and Southern parts of Ukraine stayed loyal to the Soviets.

In 1991 following the collapse of the Soviet Union, NATO made an agreement with the Russian Federation that it would never encroach on the actual boundaries of the Russian Federation and would leave a Buffer Zone out of mutual respect.
It failed to do this.
Why not look at it from Russia's point of view.

There was a time I blindly believed everything the UK/USA/France and ''allies'' did was for the good, without question.
I don't anymore. My bias has gone, I just try and get a balanced view and a better understanding.

I just wish we'd all get along a lot better, with a more easy-going understanding for others, rather than keep up a chest thumping and war-mongering type of mentality.
War is not funny.


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## michaelmaltby (Sep 8, 2019)

... very true. Crimea was Tatar land. And Khrushchev, when USSR Premier, declared that Ukraine was a _distinct_ SSR. Premier K was himself a Ukrainian.


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## Sid327 (Sep 8, 2019)

michaelmaltby said:


> ... very true. Crimea was Tatar land. And Khrushchev, when USSR Premier, declared that Ukraine was a _distinct_ SSR. Premier K was himself a Ukrainian.



I don't know much about this event. This happened in about 1954 IIRC(?) It was never ratified officially through the Soviet government but given as a ''gift'' by him for some celebration. I believe (?)
Not that it matters much now, but the Canadian globalresearch link I read was a complete eye opener for me.
Along with the western belief that Crimea was annexed. ....If that's the case, then why is it under sanctions?!

Politics. It would be better if everyone just got along with each other, without the manipulation, or overthrowing of sovereign governments, or the threatening of sanctions because other countries don't have the same beliefs. All countries have their problems. One thing I learned when living in Africa is that you can't use 1st world reasoning in any other country you visit (though the saying there in Africa was "You can't use first world reasoning in a third world country'').
I've met and lived with Russians, they are nowhere near as bad as the western media makes out.
I have visited Ukraine about half a dozen times, both the West side and the East. There is a stark difference in the minds of the people.
I have lived in China, it's an amazing culture with some of the most interesting things I've ever seen (that goes for the educated women too)! 
Their education system too, it's way better than what I have seen in other countries.

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## Dimlee (Sep 8, 2019)

Sid327 said:


> You have to look at both sides of the story.
> MSM is mostly fake news, that's pretty well know by most free thinking people now.
> 
> East Ukraine is populated by more than 8 million ethnic Russians who want nothing to do with the EU. Can you blame them?
> ...



Both sides? OK.
Here is my side. Ethnic Russian, born and raised in Sevastopol (Crimea). Descendant of two military dynasties. My ancestors lived in Crimea since about middle of XIX century (or may be earlier, but this is so far as surviving written accounts tell).
So, in your books, I'm one of _"8 million ethnic Russians who want nothing to do with the EU"_.
There is one "small" problem. Personally, I want nothing to do with Russian Federation who occupied my home city. Yes, the annexation is not just the "western belief". And despite all my scepticism towards the Brussels bureaucracy, I consider EU to be rather practical and decent choice - among all others.
Am I the exception, minority in 8 mln? But no poll or research support your bold claim about _"want nothing to..."_. Integration with EU is supported by roughly 55% to over 60% of Ukraine's population. It is, indeed, lower in three eastern regions (oblasts) where it goes down to 30%-35% but neither of those regions are populated by ethnic Russians only.
I kindly ask you to study more about the countries you voice your opinions about. At least some vital statistics. Feel free to ask live (and not imaginary) people like myself.

About 1941...
There is another bold statement of yours about regions of Ukraine (USSR) stayed loyal. WWII was very complex maze of complicated events and the USSR was not an exception. Not "regions" but millions of people across occupied territories who made their choice of loyalty - to one regime or another or to their own case of independence. And not just in Ukraine. Lokot Republic was located in RSFSR (Russian Republic) in the very heart of historical Russia. Overall most Soviet collaborators were, not surpisingly, Russians by ethnicity.
Again, I kindly ask you to study more. Assuming you don't read Russian or Ukrainian (Polish, etc), why not to start with "Bloodlands" of T.Snyder, for example.

Last but not the least - again about my Crimea.
Transfer of the Crimean region from one republic to another was done in full accordance with the USSR laws. The case itself was not unique and there were several other territory transfers/swaps in the Soviet period. The myth about "the gift" was born afterwards during Brezhnev's era when earlier leader was demonised in typical Soviet fashion. This myth was buried for awhile later on, only to be discovered again and brought to propaganda in Russian Federation in post USSR period.
And by the way, Nikita Khruschev was not in a position to make any "gifts" or to bend the legislation in January 1954. He signed no documents either (Voroshilov and Malenkov did). Khruschev was the Party leader but just for 4 months and he was not strong enough. His position strengthened later in 1955-1956 and he became the ultimate leader in 1957 after ousting "old guard" (Molotov, Zhukov, etc.). I could add as well that the transfer itself was long term project devised years before 1954 and there were pressing economic issues... but I'll stop here.

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## Dimlee (Sep 8, 2019)

michaelmaltby said:


> ... very true. Crimea was Tatar land. And Khrushchev, when USSR Premier, declared that Ukraine was a _distinct_ SSR. Premier K was himself a Ukrainian.



Crimea was the land of Crimean Tatars or Qirimlar before it was conquered by the Russian Empire in XVIII century. Then the number of Qirimlar dropped down as new settlers arrived and old residents left or were forced to leave. Wikipedia has brief but solid article which contains links to more detailed information.

Nikita Khruschev became Prime Minister of the USSR in 1958.

Ukraine as the Socialist Republic was declared in 1919. As the Soviet Socialist Republic (SSR) it became the founder of USSR in 1922.

Khruschev never called himself Ukrainian (but he called himself "internationalist"). He was born in that part of Kursk region (_Kurskaya gubernia_) where 99% of population were _velikorossy_ (ethnic Russians) according to census. There is no verifiable information about any Ukrainian ancestors in his family tree.

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## michaelmaltby (Sep 8, 2019)

Thanks for great posts, D.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 8, 2019)

Agreed...great posts.

My Fiancé was born in Burgas, Bulgaria and grew up under Soviet control.

Her Grandfather, who served with distinction in the Royal Bulgarian army was persecuted by the Communists because he (and many others) refused to "join" the Communist party.

From my personal experiance with Bulgarians, the majority wants nothing to do with Russia and they want to join the EU and virtually every person I've met, that's lived in a former Warsaw Pact nation, also wants little to do with Russia.

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## Sid327 (Sep 9, 2019)

Hello Dimlee,

I did say ''I just try and get a balanced view and a better understanding."

I am not an authority. Nor profess to be. Yes I do have a few friends I'm in regular contact with in Ukraine, from both sides of the fence.
What you choose to do is your right.

What I choose to do is mine.

It's not Stalism anymore. History is full of one country controlling another. How far should we go back to correct the impossible?

The U.K. as an example is not populated by English people (Britons and Celts) it's mostly German (Anglo Saxon).
We all have a cross to bear. I just try and see both sides of it and choose to believe the Canadian website (previous post) before any person I don't know.
I always thought forgiveness is a virtue. I understand the USSR was not a good thing. Neither was Germany 70 years ago, but nobody hates on the Germans.

If we met in person on the street, who's to say we wouldn't enjoy a coffee and a chat together.
But too often on the internet it's hard to judge who is on the ''other side'' of a keyboard.

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## Sid327 (Sep 9, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> Agreed...great posts.
> 
> My Fiancé was born in Burgas, Bulgaria and grew up under Soviet control.
> Her Grandfather, who served with distinction in the Royal Bulgarian army was persecuted by the Communists because he (and many others) refused to "join" the Communist party.
> From my personal experiance with Bulgarians, the majority wants nothing to do with Russia and they want to join the EU and virtually every person I've met, that's lived in a former Warsaw Pact nation, also wants little to do with Russia.



Hi GrauGeist,

I have no comment other than suggesting you might be interested in some recent reports:-

Why is Bulgaria the EU's most unhappy country?

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## michaelmaltby (Sep 9, 2019)

... sorry, I thought Boris Johnson's GB was the most unhappy EU camper ..


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## Sid327 (Sep 9, 2019)

michaelmaltby said:


> ... sorry, I thought Boris Johnson's GB was the most unhappy EU camper ..




Hahaha!
....No idea. I don't understand much about what's going on in the U.K. I know they voted to leave in 2016 and it still hasn't happened, most likely due to lack of integrity on those usually very honest types known as politicians.


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## Dimlee (Sep 9, 2019)

Sid327 said:


> I am not an authority. Nor profess to be. Yes I do have a few friends I'm in regular contact with in Ukraine, from both sides of the fence.



Dear Sid... 
I'm not an authority myself and I'm not trying to teach anyone.
It's up to you - as to any free person - to choose whatever you like. 
But I do believe that such choices should be based on *facts* and not on myths and not on unfounded and biased assumptions.

In Russian/Soviet classic novel "Heart of a Dog" one of the main characters, Prof.Preobrazhensky says the following to his patient:
_"...and God saves you, do not read Soviet newspapers before the dinner"_. This advise remains valid today, just replace newspapers with other media.

Good luck with your East European studies.

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## Sid327 (Sep 10, 2019)

Dimlee said:


> Dear Sid...
> I'm not an authority myself and I'm not trying to teach anyone.
> It's up to you - as to any free person - to choose whatever you like.
> But I do believe that such choices should be based on *facts* and not on myths and not on unfounded and biased assumptions.
> ...




Agree wholeheartedly about newspapers and MSM.
Which is not confined to Russia at all. Just a search using ''fake news'' on Youtube or google is enough to convince.

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## GrauGeist (Sep 10, 2019)

Sid327 said:


> Hi GrauGeist,
> 
> I have no comment other than suggesting you might be interested in some recent reports:-
> 
> Why is Bulgaria the EU's most unhappy country?



Um...you do realize that Vesti is a Russian news source, right?

And you do realize I'm speaking directly from the source and not repeating something I saw on a Russian YouTube channel...right?

наздраве

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## Sid327 (Sep 10, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> Um...you do realize that Vesti is a Russian news source, right?
> 
> And you do realize I'm speaking directly from the source and not repeating something I saw on a Russian YouTube channel...right?
> 
> наздраве



Hi GrauGeist,

Yes I know about Vesti.

They (Vesti) are probably as bad as the BBC .....and others that you could make a long list of, no doubt.

It was the results from the EU websites that would be considered more informative.

наздраве


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## The Basket (Sep 10, 2019)

Odd that you saying that you dismiss western propoganda but you is full on for Soviet.... Oops... Russian propoganda.

Ain't that a twist. 

Do you know which propoganda I believe?

Not a goddam word of it. Not a single word.


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## Sid327 (Sep 10, 2019)

The Basket said:


> Odd that you saying that you dismiss western propoganda but you is full on for Soviet.... Oops... Russian propoganda.
> Ain't that a twist.
> Do you know which propoganda I believe?
> Not a goddam word of it. Not a single word.



It just show's how much people differ with their interpretation of written word.
In post #221 I thought I had explained it sufficiently


> There was a time I blindly believed everything the UK/USA/France and ''allies'' did was for the good, without question.
> I don't anymore. My bias has gone, I just try and get a balanced view and a better understanding.
> I just wish we'd all get along a lot better, with a more easy-going understanding for others, rather than keep up a chest thumping and war-mongering type of mentality.
> War is not funny.



Different people just see what they want or expect to see.
I don't take sides. This whole thread started with knocking the Russians. They are fellow human beings just like everybody else, with feelings just like everybody else, yet myself and a few others were not ''Western'' biased, but had more moderate views .....and that is an obvious sin, is it?


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## The Basket (Sep 10, 2019)

Not interested. 
You set your stall out early and I ain't buyin.

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## Sid327 (Sep 10, 2019)

The Basket said:


> Not interested.
> You set your stall out early and I ain't buyin.



LOL,
I don't post here to convince you.
I tried being mannerly, you couldn't.

I learned long ago there's no such thing as right or wrong, just opinions.

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## michaelmaltby (Sep 10, 2019)

how about facts?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2019)

Play nice everyone.

And don’t dabble too far into politics. We have let this thread go, but that can change.

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## The Basket (Sep 10, 2019)

Propoganda is that Citroën make wonderful cars. 
My opinion is that they don't. My facts are that they don't. I have proof. 

However I go to Citroën website and its all happy shiny people doing stuff. Not once does it mention unreliable junk anywhere not one. It's like someone has been paid to deliberately lie! To deceive! To fool you. 

So when people say Citroën are good cars, I have to say in my opinion they ain't. so they don't make mistake I did. More of a public service really. 

But some people believe the propoganda! They say Citroën are great and look at the big smiles. But I have to shake my head in sadness. They will have to learn the hard way.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 10, 2019)

Sid327 said:


> Hi GrauGeist,
> 
> Yes I know about Vesti.
> 
> ...


By the way, I should have also added that I was quite the center of attention, as Americans are not as common in Bulgaria as other nationals, especially a Californian.

So as you might imagine, I ended up in a great many conversations (fueled by Zagorka and rakia) and got some very in-depth insight into their thoughts and concerns.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 11, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> By the way, I should have also added that I was quite the center of attention, as Americans are not as common in Bulgaria as other nationals, especially a Californian.
> 
> So as you might imagine, I ended up in a great many conversations (fueled by Zagorka and rakia) and got some very in-depth insight into their thoughts and concerns.



I loved my time in Bulgaria. Great food, and the people were very friendly.

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## GrauGeist (Sep 11, 2019)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I loved my time in Bulgaria. Great food, and the people were very friendly.


Loved the people and the countryside is identical to central California, especially in the region around Plovdiv.
Their beer is kickass, too...Zagorka and Kamonitza are based on Czech recipes from the 1800's.

And Rozi's dad (Mr. Stankov) makes his own Rakia!

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## soulezoo (Sep 11, 2019)

I flew in and out of Sofia a couple of times in the mid 2000's. I didn't get to spend much time or get to wander around but I had a favorable impression.

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## Dimlee (Sep 11, 2019)

Sid327 said:


> It just show's how much people differ with their interpretation of written word.
> In post #221 I thought I had explained it sufficiently
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting... I am Russian and I don't see any "knocking" here. Am I too thick skinned ? 

Some useful information. No politics.

The term "Russian" can be misleading in certain context. This Wiki article can help but it just scratches the surface.
Russian - Wikipedia
There are two nouns _russkiy_ and _rossiyanin _in modern Russian language. The former can be translated as "ethnic Russian", the latter is the citizen of modern Russian state. Obviously, not all _russkiys_ are _rossiyanins_ and vice versa.
As for adjectives, there are _russkiy _and _rossiyskiy_. As one can guess, the former relates to anything ethnic (culture, language, etc.) while the latter relates to the country/state. Still, even in Russian language both terms overlap and being confused quite often. Not surprisingly those nuances are harder to recognise in foreign languages.
There are about 110 mln of ethnic Russians (_russkiye_) in Russian Federation and probably not less 40 mln in other countries. 

To make it even more interesting... 
Since XVIII century and until early XX century there was popular word _velikoross_ which was equivalent of modern _russkiy _(applied to a person). And word _russkiy_ was commonly used to identify anything related to the Russian state (Russian Empire at that period), same as _rossiyskiy_ today.

And certainly _russkiy _should not be used as equivalent of everything _sovetskiy_ (Soviet). Which happens to often even in the best historical researches. By the way, in WWII context it can be misleading, since ethnic Russians - _russkiye _were on both sides of the front lines.

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## Sid327 (Sep 12, 2019)

Okay,

I'll admit it. I'm biased......relatively speaking.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 12, 2019)

Dimlee said:


> And certainly _russkiy _should not be used as equivalent of everything _sovetskiy_ (Soviet). Which happens to often even in the best historical researches.


I'm guilty of doing that on occasion, using "Russian" as a catch-all instead of using "Soviet".


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## mikemike (Sep 13, 2019)

Wikipedia: 
According to the most prominent theory, the name Rus', like the Finnish name for Sweden (_Ruotsi_), is derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row" (_rods-_) as rowing was the main method of navigating the rivers of Eastern Europe.

One of the earliest written sources mentioning the people called Rus' (as _Rhos_) dates to 839 in the _Annales Bertiniani_. This chronicle identifies them as a Germanic tribe called the Swedes. According to the Kievan Rus' _Primary Chronicle_, compiled in about 1113, the Rus' were a group of Varangians, Norsemen who had relocated somewhere from the Baltic region (literally "from beyond the sea"), first to Northeastern Europe, then to the south where they created the medieval Kievan state.

So - apparently the real Russians are Swedes.

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## GrauGeist (Sep 13, 2019)

soulezoo said:


> I flew in and out of Sofia a couple of times in the mid 2000's. I didn't get to spend much time or get to wander around but I had a favorable impression.


If you ever get a chance, the Burgas airport (just south of town, on the road to Nessebar) has a great collection of Soviet aircraft from Bulgaria's cold-war years.

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## Dimlee (Sep 14, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> I'm guilty of doing that on occasion, using "Russian" as a catch-all instead of using "Soviet".



Yes, it happens. No problem when it's just a slip of the tongue. Also many historical materials used "russian" so it might be difficult to see the difference.

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## Dimlee (Sep 14, 2019)

mikemike said:


> Wikipedia:
> According to the most prominent theory, the name Rus', like the Finnish name for Sweden (_Ruotsi_), is derived from an Old Norse term for "the men who row" (_rods-_) as rowing was the main method of navigating the rivers of Eastern Europe.
> 
> One of the earliest written sources mentioning the people called Rus' (as _Rhos_) dates to 839 in the _Annales Bertiniani_. This chronicle identifies them as a Germanic tribe called the Swedes. According to the Kievan Rus' _Primary Chronicle_, compiled in about 1113, the Rus' were a group of Varangians, Norsemen who had relocated somewhere from the Baltic region (literally "from beyond the sea"), first to Northeastern Europe, then to the south where they created the medieval Kievan state.
> ...



Just wait for Danes or others to step in.  
I always enjoyed friendly discussions among my colleagues about who was "more viking". My knowledge of Norse history grew with each pint of beer consumed.

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## The Basket (Sep 14, 2019)

England was Viking. Plenty Viking.
Just a Viking as the Vikings.


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## michaelmaltby (Sep 14, 2019)

".. Just a Viking as the Vikings."
At _first_, ....


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## swampyankee (Sep 14, 2019)

The Basket said:


> England was Viking. Plenty Viking.
> Just a Viking as the Vikings.


The Danelaw?

The Vikings were everywhere in Europe, as raiders, conquerors, or mercenaries, and some of the last overthrew their erstwhile employers.

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## The Basket (Sep 14, 2019)

England had Viking Kings. So don't get more Viking than having a Viking king.

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 19, 2019)

[deleted]


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## swampyankee (Nov 19, 2019)

Dimlee said:


> Yes, it happens. No problem when it's just a slip of the tongue. Also many historical materials used "russian" so it might be difficult to see the difference.



I think another reason may be that the Soviet Union and Russian Empire were approximately the same territories ruled in approximately the same manner.

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## michaelmaltby (Jan 20, 2020)

Opinion | Putin the Immortal

... the immortal autocrat


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## Sid327 (Jan 21, 2020)

Re Vikings & DaneLaw

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## Dimlee (Feb 8, 2020)

Somewhere, above the Red Square...
‘A threat to our allies’: Russia stalking US satellites, NATO general warns

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## michaelmaltby (Feb 8, 2020)

... I am not surprised. Thanks for the post, D


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## michaelmaltby (Jul 15, 2020)

Late posting this, but these are the times ...
‘President for life’: Putin can now stay in power until 2036


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## GrauGeist (Jul 16, 2020)

Well - didn't see that coming...

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## michaelmaltby (Jul 26, 2020)

Putin attends naval parade, promises new ships to navy | Taiwan News


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## GrauGeist (Jul 26, 2020)

I haven't seen any hard figures on what Putin's spending on his military, but it doesn't seem that they are producing anything near cold war numbers.

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## ifor (Jul 26, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> I haven't seen any hard figures on what Putin's spending on his military, but it doesn't seem that they are producing anything near cold war numbers.


Does the current state their economy allow major defence spending? The price of oil must be hurting.

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## michaelmaltby (Jul 26, 2020)

It is. Putin seems to be about putting "good stuff "- hardware, in the shop window. China -- much the same. Neither country has ever successfully operated a Blue Water fleet. Putin wants to keep the pressure on the US and allies the west while China puts pressure on in the east .... seeking, IMO, to roll back US influence and orientation.

China's "Belt and Road" economic strategy is nothing more than Imperial Japan's "Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere" wrapped up in red paper ... Putin doesn't care about the west, but, to the _Chinese_, Russia is a "Third World Country" ....

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## nuuumannn (Jul 26, 2020)

michaelmaltby said:


> Late posting this, but these are the times ...
> ‘President for life’: Putin can now stay in power until 2036



The US president must be so envious.

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## GrauGeist (Jul 27, 2020)

michaelmaltby said:


> It is. PutinI seems to be about putting "good stuff "- hardware, in the shop window. China -- much the same. Neither country has ever successfully operated a Blue Water fleet. Putin wants to keep the pressure on the US and allies the west while China puts pressure on in the east .... seeking, IMO, to roll back US influence and orientation.
> 
> China's "Belt and Road" economic strategy is nothing more than Imperial Japan's "Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere" wrapped up in red paper ... Putin doesn't care about the west, but, to the _Chinese_, Russia is a "Third World Country" ....


You know something is afoot when Japan backtracks on their military policy and starts building carriers...

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## nuuumannn (Jul 27, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> You know something is afoot when Japan backtracks on their military policy and starts building carriers...



I'm waiting for the return of the Yamato and Musashi, personally, knowing of the Japanese tendency toward sentiment...

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## GrauGeist (Jul 27, 2020)

Currently, their two carriers are named Kaga and Izumo.
While these are prefects of Japan, they are also namesakes of the IJN Carrier Kaga and IJN Heavy Cruiser Izumo.

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## michaelmaltby (Jul 27, 2020)

China and Iran Reach a New Stage in Their Strategic Partnership.


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## michaelmaltby (Aug 24, 2020)

Alexei Navalny 'likely poisoned,' German government says | DW | 24.08.2020


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## SaparotRob (Aug 24, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> You know something is afoot when Japan backtracks on their military policy and starts building carriers...


You know something is afoot when I want Japan to build aircraft carriers.

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## michaelmaltby (Sep 12, 2020)

AFRICOM: Russian fighter jets flown by mercenaries are conducting combat activities in Libya

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## michaelmaltby (Oct 11, 2020)

Russian and Chinese Military Harassment Is Increasing. Should the US Be Worried?


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## michaelmaltby (Oct 13, 2020)

Egypt to join Russia in Black Sea naval drills: Moscow


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## Torch (Oct 13, 2020)

michaelmaltby said:


> View attachment 598106
> 
> Egypt to join Russia in Black Sea naval drills: Moscow


Not good,since the USA did not sell F35s to Egypt they have been buying Russian equipment and cozying up to them.

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## michaelmaltby (Oct 13, 2020)

... best know the character of your allies.


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## soulezoo (Oct 13, 2020)

Torch said:


> Not good,since the USA did not sell F35s to Egypt they have been buying Russian equipment and cozying up to them.



Since the '60's....

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## michaelmaltby (Mar 23, 2021)

Vladimir Putin's outdoor exploits have for many Russians conjured the image of an in-shape president. Here he poses at a Siberian picnic with his defense minister, Sergey Shoigu. Credit: Kremlin.ru
Russian mole says Putin has FSB hit list

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## Sid327 (Mar 24, 2021)

If there was a choice between,

Biden and Putin I don't think there's any hesitation.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 24, 2021)

Last warning. No politics. I don’t give a damn, if this is about Biden, Trump, Obama, Putin, your mother, or your cat.

The forum has a no policy rule. The rules have been posted for years. There is no damn excuse to be ignorant of the rules, or ignore them.

That also goes for a select few who like to push the envelope and skate right on the edge... you know who you are.

There are plenty of other places you can discuss politics such as political forums, your local pub, etc. Let’s not turn our forum into the next Facebook or Parler.

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## michaelmaltby (Jun 22, 2021)

Nice Pitch, Putin: If a Guy Tells You Happiness is Just a Mirage, Believe Him the First Time - Policy Magazine


Lisa Van Dusen




policymagazine.ca




Great read *****

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