# Confirmed....Hitler escaped to Argentina ¡¡¡



## CharlesBronson (Aug 28, 2007)

For all those who still dont believe: 

Hitler in Argentina - Abel Basti

 .....


----------



## spitfire101 (Aug 28, 2007)

for me thats very hard to believe


----------



## Lucky13 (Aug 29, 2007)

.....I don't know. Seems a bit far fetched.


----------



## Aussie1001 (Aug 29, 2007)

ummmmm..... Don't really care even if he did escape he's dead now anyway....


----------



## timshatz (Aug 29, 2007)

Yeah, even if he had made it out (about a .00001 chance), he'd be something like the 115-120 years old right now. That would make him the oldest Homicidal Dictator alive on the planet. 

Hey, Call Ripleys or Guiness, that's gotta be a record for Homicidal Dictators!


----------



## ccheese (Aug 29, 2007)

Yea....right ! And Elvis was seen in downtown Chicago, yesterday.

Horsefeathers !!

Charles


----------



## CharlesBronson (Aug 29, 2007)

All this myth born with the actual arrival of a german Submarine to Mar del Plata.



> U-bootes in Mar del Plata.
> 
> At the end of 2 ª World war, in 1945, two German submarines gave up themselves in the Argentine Naval Base of Mar del Plata. On July 10, 1945 the U-530 gave up itself, with his crew of 54 men commanded by the Oberleutnant Otto Wermouth; On August 17 the U-977 gave up itself, with 31 men under the command of the Oberleutnant Heinz Zchaffer



*U-530*


----------



## Parmigiano (Aug 29, 2007)

The 'legend' of Hitler's escape and Nazis keeping a seed of 4th Reich in South America and/or Antarctica are long lived... 

Here is a link that I've found a few days ago on LEMB forum

DISC AIRCRAFT OF THE THIRD REICH (1922-1945 and BEYOND)

A pleasant reading, but in my opinion more as fantasy than history


----------



## Konigstiger205 (Aug 29, 2007)

Well its very hard to believe...many have tried to escape Berlin...few succeed...anyway until I see solid proof that Hitler actually made it to Argentina I remain to the suicide theory which is the most solid one.


----------



## Erich (Aug 29, 2007)

I wish i could find it but Hitlers sister came forward years ago and stated her brother died in the early 1950's in an Austrian new paper. there was strong talk in the 1980's that Hitlers cousin took Hitlers place at an appropriate time during the battle of Berlin, der stinky was taken out on one of the last hurrah a/c an flown out and then a short U-bbot trip to south america with a few of his slugs and died there.


I thought it was an interesting idea and good ridance you turd !


----------



## trackend (Aug 29, 2007)

Herr Schicklgruber is as dead as ****ing
Davy Crockett's Hat and has been since 1945.


----------



## T4.H (Aug 29, 2007)

bullshit!

He died on 30. April 1945 at 3:30 p.m.

He took Zyankali and shot himself into his brain. Several one saw him (one of them, Otto Günsche, died 2003) and set him outside of the bunker in flames.

The russians found his body (and of his wife), identified him (X-ray, teeth), dig him again near Magdeburg and destroyed his body in the year 1970.


----------



## Hunter368 (Aug 29, 2007)

T4.H said:


> bullshit!
> 
> He died on 30. April 1945 at 3:30 p.m.
> 
> ...



Why would they destroy the body?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 29, 2007)

I too believe he killed himself in 1945 but the theory that the Russians found his body is also false. They found 2 bodies and took the skull believed to be Hitlers with them to Russia.

Later using Dental Records the skull was proven not to be that of Hitlers.


----------



## T4.H (Aug 29, 2007)

Ah, he took hydrocyanic acid (Zyankali)

They buried the bodies near Magdeburg. On direct command of Andropov, they destroyed the remains (with fire) and throw the ash into an river.


Hunter:
The official russian announcement was, that they never found his remains!
They had to get rid of the remains.

And if there are any questions left.... 

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDFRsJZxBS0_


----------



## ccheese (Aug 29, 2007)

You know..... This could go on and on and on and on........

Is there any _proof_ one way or the other ?

Charles


----------



## T4.H (Aug 29, 2007)

That he is dead?

Interview with Traudl Junge (realy interesting!), the secretary of AH.
She stayed inside of the bunker to the last moments. She escaped from Berlin.
She wrote the Testament of AH. She saw them going into the room. She heared the shot. she saw the deat body (covered). She saw the test on tn the dog (hydrocyanic acid) 
The information from Otto Günschel.
He was one of the guys, who set him on fire. He was one of the guys, who carried him upstairs.

The book of...I don't know his name any more.
He stayed inside of the bunker, till the russians get him (radio operator).

The rest (Magdeburg etc.)?
Official russian documents. Interview with some russians, I saw on TV.

Der Bonker!

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDFRsJZxBS0_


----------



## Erich (Aug 29, 2007)

and since you are Deutsch I am assuming you know full well that doctors and Soviet soldiers lied through their teeth to the Commisars and up the chain to Stalin who had all of them later executed..........

anything is possible you silly beggars and you all know it. Remaining stealth was not that hard even in the last days of total confusion the Soviets after the Battle was over never had full on total control of every street until the end. I have eye-witnesses right here in my little Platonic Sphere who lived in Berlin in 1945 and still bare the marks of Soviet brutality and Hitlers insaneness.......... their stories would make your skin crawl.

Granted ~ Hitler ist Kaput ! may he rot you S.O.B.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 29, 2007)

And as I said before the dental tests on the Soviet's skull proved not to be Hitlers.


----------



## T4.H (Aug 29, 2007)

Erich said:


> and since you are Deutsch I am assuming you know full well that doctors and Soviet soldiers lied through their teeth to the Commisars and up the chain to Stalin who had all of them later executed..........
> 
> anything is possible you silly beggars and you all know it. Remaining stealth was not that hard even in the last days of total confusion the Soviets after the Battle was over never had full on total control of every street until the end. I have eye-witnesses right here in my little Platonic Sphere who lived in Berlin in 1945 and still bare the marks of Soviet brutality and Hitlers insaneness.......... their stories would make your skin crawl.
> 
> Granted ~ Hitler ist Kaput ! may he rot you S.O.B.



Official russian documents.
Survivors, who were working on this.
And of course, everything came out in the last years.

And for this:


Erich said:


> silly beggars


-> Don't make me angry. I don't know, how old You are.
5?

Yes, I'm a German.
Perhaps I'm little bit better informed than you.
It is the history of my country, not yours.


->dental tests on the Soviet's skull proved not to be Hitlers

As I know Yes.
Stalin didn't like it.
He wanted to get him alife.
He was not amused.

I have to leave now.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 29, 2007)

T4.H said:


> -> Don't make me angry. I don't know, how old You are.
> 5?



Calm the **** down!

He was not insulting anyone. That is the way Erich talks. It was not directed at you but at everyone and it was not meant as an insult!

Also for your info, Erich has very close relatives who flew with rather famous units of the Luftwaffe in WW2...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 29, 2007)

T4.H said:


> As I know Yes.
> Stalin didn't like it.
> He wanted to get him alife.
> He was not amused.
> ...



No these dental tests were done about 10 years ago....

Stalin was long gone.


----------



## Erich (Aug 29, 2007)

T4.H you for one do not even know who you are talking with so lets quit the disrespect. As Adler mentioned I have relatives STILL living in Deutshcland, two that flew in the LW and both KIA, at least 5 that served in the Heer, 4 killed on the OST front 1 still with us living amongst the vines of the pfalz where my familie originated and are now spread all over the country.

What I have on Hitler and his so called suicide is from CIA documentation back in the 1960's with regards to a Herr Müller which you should know something about .......

ok enough of this, I'm bored with the subject mater, back to aircraft shall we


----------



## lucanus (Aug 29, 2007)

> Herr Schicklgruber is as dead as ****ing
> Davy Crockett's Hat and has been since 1945.



I think you will find that Davy Crockett's hat died somewhat
earlier than 1945...More like 1835... 

By the by Erich did any of your relations fly against the
384th BG?


----------



## Erich (Aug 29, 2007)

lucanus good question, 1 cousin flew in JG 301, 5th staffel and was shot down and KIA with P-51's from the 355thfg or 2nd SF. His JG 301 had attacked Libs from the 491st who lost 16 confirmed and 5 Libs from the 445th bomb group. This was his second mission - 26 November 1944.

His first mission was on - 21 November 44 and I am trying to find which US heavy bg his JG 301 attacked. Was the 384th attacked this date over the Reich ?

E ~


----------



## lucanus (Aug 29, 2007)

Yes they attacked Altenbergen, Germany a RR Viaduct,
They lost no aircraft - This was a B-17 Group. I would be
interested in comparing some of the notes I have from
my Uncle...Below is the link to their web page it list
all the missions as well as aircraft lost
384th Bomb Group

I have one other question not on topic: Ever heard of a
Brandlebrache Hound...My wife saw one in a dog show and
some Teutonic DNA in her wants one, as far as I can figure
they are used to hunt Stags and their breeding is very hush
hush...No pressure just a question8)


----------



## CharlesBronson (Aug 29, 2007)

I said one submarine ?

I was wrong, actually two came. The other was the U-977, this arrived late august 1945 and was the one in wich allegedly an important figure of the N.S.D.A.P arrive, 

what figure ? ...well...guess who  

On 10 May, 1945 U-977, in Norwegian waters when Germany surrendered, put ashore those men who did not wish to accompany the rest of the crew on a desperate voyage to Argentina.




> Surrender in Argentina in August, 1945
> The boat left Kristiansand, Norway on 2 May, 1945 for a combat patrol in the English Channel. When Germany surrendered a few days later the boat was outbound in Norwegian waters. After deciding to head for Argentina Schäffer gave the married men on board the chance to go to shore. Roughly a third of the crew, 16 men, opted for the shore and were put on land on 10 May near Holsenöy in dinghies. They all ended up in British hands. U-977 then sailed for Argentina; from May 10 to July 14 the voyage was a 66-day continuous submerged Schnorchel run, the second longest in the war (after U-978's 68 days).
> The journey was extremely difficult for the crew and many were apparently on the edge of a nervous breakdown. The boat stopped in Cape Verde Islands for a short swim break and then headed south on the surface using one diesel. Crossing the equator on July 23 she arrived in Mar del Plata, Argentina on 17 August for a total patrol length of 108 days.
> 
> ...




uboat.net - Boats - U-977


----------



## T4.H (Aug 30, 2007)

OK, Erich, perhaps I have had a bad day yesterday. So please don't be mortally offended any more.

I have a nice citation for you.
Erich Hartmann was a russian POW for 10 years. After the revolt in “Schachty” he came to the prison camp in Diaterka (1953). In this camp were the most famous german POW’s.
There he met Otto Guensche (and it seems get a friend of him).

Citation:
Raymond F. Toliver/Trevor F. Constable: Holt Hartmann vom Himmel! Die Geschichte des erfolgreichsten Jagdfliegers der Welt (The Blond Knight of Germany)
ISBN 3-87943-216-3
43. Auflage 1981

page 284-287 (pages 285 and 286 a pictures)

“Die strenge Haft und die unterschiedlichen Charaktere der Mithäftlinge fuehrten zu staendigen Streitigkeiten. Hartmann sah sich meistens als Verbuendete von „Sigi“ Graf von der Schulenburg und Otto Guensche. Hitlers Exadjutant, gross, blond und ein Bild unerhoerter Kraft, war eher ein Mensch von ruhigem und freundlichem Wesen – ganz das Gegenteil von dem, was man erwartet hätte. Guensche’s letzte Aufgabe in Deutschland war es gewesen, die Leiche Hitler’s nach dessen Selbstmord zu verbrennen.
Er erzaehlte Hartmann waehrend ihres einjaehrigen Zusammenseins die gleiche Geschichte mit den gleichen genauen Einzelheiten immer wieder ohne Ausschmueckungen oder Uebertreibungen. Nach Hitlers Selbstmord trug er den in einen Teppich eingerollten Leichnam hinter den Fuehrerbunker in Berlin.
Sechs oder sieben Kanister Benzin wurden über den eingewickelten Körper gegossen, über 100 Liter Benzin durchtraenkten den Teppich und den Boden der Umgebung. Ein Streichholz setzte das ganze in Flammen. Trotzdem wurde der Körper nur oberflächlich verbrannt.“

OK, I have not the time, to write it in english. Perhaps you can read english or ask Chris.
As I know, E. Hartmann was not a Nazi. He was "only" a less or more "nonpolitical" young soldier. He has no reason to lie. It seems, that he believes this story. We are here in the "Warbird" Forum. So Erich Hartman is perhaps one of your Heroes. Perhaps you choose the name "Erich" because of "Erich Hartmann". You didn't want to say that "Erich Hartmann" is lying?

Another story: One soldier and his group got the command to take the fuel out of the cars, which were standing in another bunker. He did it and brought the fuel to the entrance of the "Fuehrer-Bunker". He was realy angry, because they just survived, the russian granates where landing around them on there way on the surface. At the entrance he met some and asked, why he has to do such a stupid thing. They said to him: "Frag nicht, ist für den Fuehrer...". Then he saw them carrying him upstairs.

Everyone in the bunker knows, that AH wanted to commit suicide. He was not as stupid as "Saddam Hussein". He knew, that he could not escape. He knew, that they would find him erverywhere. He didn't want to end like "Mussolini", hanging head down at a fuel station. And he didn't want to end in Moscow. He wanted to die in Berlin.


>>>>>>>>>


DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> No these dental tests were done about 10 years ago....
> 
> Stalin was long gone.



I think, this story is not true.

Lets remember...I saw it several years ago on TV...and read it in a Paper somewhere...

Like anyone else, AH go to a dentist to his surgery somewhere in Berlin. OK, the surgery was destroyed, all documents and X-ray photos did not survive the bombing raids and the battle of Berlin. Like most of Berlin.
The russians found the dentist and brought them to russia, he stayed there (of course not alive).
I saw an interview with the man, who's job was to interview this dentist in russia at this time. He was one of the bosses of the crew, searching for AH. The dentist could describe the teeth structure of AH and the work he has done. OK, I could understand, why he remembered the structure, AH was the most famous patient he has had. I also would remember, if I would be his dentist.
In this interview I couldn't find any hint, that this russian was lying. His body language was true.


----------



## Erich (Aug 30, 2007)

T4.H

I come from a very old German familie in the Pfalz by the name of Baer-or Bär. Remember a great LW ace by that name........you guessed it we are related. He was born in the valley that my relatives still live in and they are just on the northern edge of the Pflazland at Grünberg and up the western hill of Bad Hönnigen. now you knw what my Familie background is besides I am also Italien with Familie name of Castelli both on my mothers side. Of course my Fathers side is from the Caln Lemont which is Scottish later turned into Brown, my ancestry is in this caln and througb research found they were hired assasins.......

~ In any case I am not going to hold anything against you, you are giving your opinion which is fair and I am giving mine which I also think is fair but know full well that the last month of the war their was complete chaos in Berlin and along the Elbe river, the Soviets were not everywhere like many claim to be so therefore I feel strongly that things and people could easily have been placed elsewhere even giving accounts in POW camps to well known personalities from Otto to Erich H.


----------



## lucanus (Aug 30, 2007)

> The strict detention and the different characters of the fellow prisoners led to constant disputes. Hartman mostly saw himself as allied one from "Sigi" Guen to count of the school castle and petrol. Hitler Ex adjutant, largely, blond and a picture of outrageous strength, was rather humans of calm and friendly nature - whole the opposite of what one would have expected. Guensche's last task in Germany had been it to burn the corpse Hitler's after his suicide. It told during its one year's Zusammenseins the same history with the same exact details again and again to Hartman without decorations or exaggerations. After Hitler's suicide he carried the body rolled up into a carpet behind the leader bunker in Berlin. Six or seven cans gasoline were poured over the in-wound body, over 100 litres gasoline impregnated the carpet and the soil of the environment. A match set that whole in flames. Nevertheless the body was only superficially burned."


translation
of T4.H's passage for those who don't speak German-My German is a
little rusty


----------



## Graeme (Aug 30, 2007)

'From The Last Days of Hitler-The Legends-The Evidence-Truth' by Anton Joachimsthaler.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 30, 2007)

T4.H said:


> I think, this story is not true.
> 
> Lets remember...I saw it several years ago on TV...and read it in a Paper somewhere...



Let me guess. Stern, Spiegel or Das Bild?


----------



## CharlesBronson (Aug 30, 2007)

> 'From The Last Days of Hitler-The Legends-The Evidence-Truth' by Anton Joachimsthaler



Interesting, do you know why the X-ray was took for ?

( I know for medical reason but I mean if was a dentist, traumatologist, etc)


----------



## Graeme (Aug 31, 2007)

CharlesBronson said:


> Interesting, do you know why the X-ray was took for ?



Dr Erwin Giesling working with Dr Carl Von Eicken, were Hitler's ENT specialists. They treated Hitler's ear injuries caused by the assassination attempt of 20 July 1944. At the time of the X-ray Hitler was 'suffering' from a festering infection in his left maxillary sinus. Not long after this he had dental surgery performed by Hugo Blaschke (10th November 1944) as a result of a massive infection in tooth No 6 in the left upper Jaw. Since this tooth formed part of a substantial bridge and Hitler refused lengthy treatment, Blaschke decided to cut off the section of the bridge with teeth 5 and 6 and extract tooth 6. Someone has 'added' this dental work to the X-ray. 

Dr Giesling had a falling out with Dr Morell, and Hitler terminated his employment (along with others) and subsequently served in a military hospital in Hamburg. Arrested by the British in June 1945 and held until March 1947. After his release he practised in Krefeld where he died on 22 May 1977 aged 69.


----------



## Laobao (Aug 31, 2007)

I don't believe Hitler's psychological profile was set for suicide.

I think it is quite feasible he fled Berlin and made it to South America.

At the Potsdam conference in July, Stalin said he believed Hitler was in Spain or Argentina.

Eva Braun's statement regarding Hitler's Munich-based double, that he "wears built-up shoes to overcome a height difference," possibly explains the 5 cm height discrepancy of the body autopsied.

The last visitors to the Chancellery bunker were Hanna Reitsch. Hanna was the greatest woman pilot in Germany. 

Story has it after the Hitler double was set up in the bunker, she flew Hitler to Sweden, and Hitler made his way to Argentina by U-Boat.

Odds are good Hitler lived out the rest of his life in serenity and without anxiety. There is even a photo of him at age 107 that can be found after a google search.

Hitler was not a guy to give up, or surrender. These things were not apart of his psychological profile.

My bet is he escaped.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Aug 31, 2007)

Sorry dude, but evidence and MANY witnesses prove otherwise. If you really look at Hitler's psychological profile in the last days he was a rambling mess, commanding divisions that didn't exist and living in a world of grand illusion. Crazy and drug induced, Hitler was a suicide waiting to happen. After the war Stalin painstakingly gathered evidence to make sure Hitler was dead.

BBC News | EUROPE | Russia displays 'Hitler skull fragment'
National Geographic TV: The Identification of HitlerÂ´s Head (HitlerÂ´s Skull Teeth - ForensicWiki)

Even Hanna Reitsch testified to that....


----------



## CharlesBronson (Aug 31, 2007)

> Dr Erwin Giesling working with Dr Carl Von Eicken, were Hitler's ENT specialists. They treated Hitler's ear injuries caused by the assassination attempt of 20 July 1944. At the time of the X-ray Hitler was 'suffering' from a festering infection in his left maxillary sinus. Not long after this he had dental surgery performed by Hugo Blaschke (10th November 1944) as a result of a massive infection in tooth No 6 in the left upper Jaw. Since this tooth formed part of a substantial bridge and Hitler refused lengthy treatment, Blaschke decided to cut off the section of the bridge with teeth 5 and 6 and extract tooth 6. Someone has 'added' this dental work to the X-ray.



Thank you, I forgot the little "incident" of july 20th. How a person could survive being so near to a briefcase full of plastic explosives  

I also saw some years ago that Hitler used cocaine for some eye infection, he was a pretty wasted man in that last year.

In the year 2003 the discovery Channel made a documentry about this topic called "Hitler of the andes" playing with the idea of the possible escape of Hitler to our country. According to some witness A.H stay in Bariloche (Rio Negro province) and La falda (Cordoba province)

lafalda - Busqueda Google de imÃ¡genes

If anybody know about torrents (cuz I dont) can download from here:

http://www.torrentvalley.com/download_torrent_84119.html


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 1, 2007)

Laobao said:


> I don't believe Hitler's psychological profile was set for suicide.
> 
> I think it is quite feasible he fled Berlin and made it to South America.
> 
> ...



There you are wrong. Hitler was very dissapointed in the German people and was a depressed man because of the war situation. He said so on several occasions.

Rather than give the allies the luxury of capturing him he was willing to kill himself.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 1, 2007)

Laobao said:


> possibly explains the 5 cm height discrepancy of the body autopsied.



According to Joachimsthaler, up to 300 litres of gasoline were used on Hitler and Braun.

When the human body is burned in the open by means of petrol, the first thing that burns off is the extraneous petrol, which causes a strong heating up of the corpse. Then, because they act like a wick, the fire spreads to the clothes, which burn away more or less quickly depending on the nature and structure of the fabric. When the open flames act directly on the body surface (estimated at 2.5metres squared) for a longer period of time-according to witnesses, the corpses burned from 1600hrs to 1830hrs- the final result is carbonisation. During the process, steam forms in the subcutaneous tissue and in the course of the burning the pressure can rise dramatically, so that the body surface bursts open in many places. The skull can burst from the same effect. The heat causes the protein in the cells of the muscles to congeal, which then contract. This leads to contortions (arms) or the lifting up and contracting of the upper body and legs, which stay in this position because of posthumous heat rigor (so called ‘fencer’s stance’). The heat causes the body fat to melt and the fatty acids released hydrolytically run out of the gashes in the skin, are absorbed by the fabrics still remaining and, because they are flammable just like the fat tissue itself, support the further burning process. Because of the major loss of substance (water and fat), the carbonated corpse or torso shrinks to a substantial degree. If the burning continues for an extended period of time, the soft tissue is almost completely consumed. The only thing that remains is fragile, calcified bones that can easily disintegrate even without external force being applied.

There was no body, there was no autopsy.

When Frau Heusermann ( Blaschke’s dental assistant) was captured and transported to Finow, by the Russians, she was shown a cigar box (containing Eva Braun’s bridge and two of Hitler’s bridge’s,-which survived the ‘cremation’). Laughing the Russian soldiers gathered round, opened the lid and gleefully told her ‘Here is the Fuhrer’. 

Joachimsthaler points out;
‘In the final analysis, by presenting the evidence coming from Adolf Hitler (upper bridge and complete lower jawbone with teeth and bridges) and from Eva Braun-Hitler (a small gold filling and a synthetic resin bridge with a gold crown), the Russians themselves-and this must be emphasised-proved conclusively that Adolf Hitler and Eva Braun-Hitler were dead’.


----------



## Soundbreaker Welch? (Sep 1, 2007)

Where is the picture of Hitler a 107? Is it really real?


----------



## T4.H (Sep 2, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Let me guess. Stern, Spiegel or Das Bild?



If I would have read it in "Bild"...
good joke. I would never mentioned it of course.

I'm not sure. Perhaps oce a month I read the "Spiegel". I hate "Stern" or "Focus".
I think I read it in the "Spiegel".

Where I saw it? Good question.
Not on a commercial TV-station.
I think, it was Phoenix, Arte, ARD, ZDF or one of the 3.

Graeme:
They just didn't have 300 l of fuel. This is to much.
They had to use the fuel of the cars, standing in a bunker next to the "Führerbunker".
I only know the story of a superficially burned corpse.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 2, 2007)

Soundbreaker Welch said:


> Where is the picture of Hitler a 107? Is it really real?



No...


----------



## Udet (Sep 2, 2007)

Charlie, hello.

It seems like Argentina has earned a good reputation for having opened its doors to so many Germans -combat veteran, politicians and ordinary citizens- both during and after the war; the bulk of the crew of the Admiral Graf von Spee remained in Argentina right after her skipper blew her away off Monte Video in Uruguay -Langsdorff´s grave is in Buenos Aires right?-.

As you might recall Charlie, i did live for some years in Mexico, in the capital, where the number of people of German origin is really really huge; considering Argentina has a small population if compared to the total mexican population it would not impress me at all if living in MExico City alone are more people of German origin than in all Argentina put together.

During my stay in Mexico, i learned from someone from your country, who runs his own "Churrasco y Tango" place, that another factor that contributed to the well known reputation of Argentina for having hosted so many German veterans was the personal style of Juan Domingo Peron, who would trumpet his decisions loud up in the air.

Mexico, on the other hand, had declared war on the Axis, so Germans would think it twice about fleeing to a state that was in a "state of war" with their nation; it seems however, that during the early 50s, in several waves or phases, a real huge number of German veterans left Europe and headed to Mexico were they settled -main point of entry was the port of Veracruz, on the Gulf of Mexico coast-.

I was told that during the war Mexico did the same as in the U.S. -albeit in somewhat more "relaxed" terms- by proceeding to "secure" German, Italian and Japanese citizens in special camps.


----------



## CharlesBronson (Sep 2, 2007)

> Charlie, hello.
> 
> It seems like Argentina has earned a good reputation for having opened its doors to so many Germans -combat veteran, politicians and ordinary citizens- both during and after the war; the bulk of the crew of the Admiral Graf von Spee remained in Argentina right after her skipper blew her away off Monte Video in Uruguay -Langsdorff´s grave is in Buenos Aires right?-.



Yeap, the the crew the Graf Spee were confined to a small town called Villa General Belgrano, also in Cordoba, some escaped and return to the fight in Europe but most of them stay here after the war.


Bienvenido a Villa General Belgrano

Villa General Belgrano

Reimar Horten also lived there until the year of his death, 1993.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 2, 2007)

> They just didn't have 300 l of fuel. This is to much.
> They had to use the fuel of the cars, standing in a bunker next to the "Führerbunker".
> I only know the story of a superficially burned corpse.




Hi T4.H

(Apparently based on testimony)
Testimony from SS-_Hauptsturmfuhr_er Karl Schneider (supervisor of garages) made on 5 February 1948 in Nuremberg:

"I had more petrol available to me than during the whole of the war. It had been brought over from the airports that had to be evacuated. And I had 20 to 30 or even more barrels filled with petrol in the garden of the Propaganda Ministry. On 27 or 28 April I called the Chancellery and asked if they needed petrol because I had so much and actually thought it was a bit dangerous. Those in the Chancellery told me, 'We have too much ourselves.'..In my opinion there can be no doubt that there was enough petrol available". (For the cremation).

Many testimonies (including Russian) put the *conservative* figure at twelve 20 litre cans (240 litres) utilised on the 'bonfire'.

This is more than enough (Joachimsthaler) to reach a temperature where adipose tissue becomes an accelerant in the cremation process. When this point has reached, further fuel is not required.

SS-_Hauptsturmfuhrer_ Edwald Lindloff testified that after only 30 minutes the corpses were already "charred and torn open".

The fire burnt for another *two hours*. 

All that remained of Hitler "was some charred bones with burnt particles of tissue attached".


----------



## Aussie1001 (Sep 2, 2007)

As i said before why argue about this hes dead what is the point of argueing about someones who is clearly in hell ????


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 3, 2007)

Aussie1001 said:


> As i said before why argue about this hes dead what is the point of argueing about someones who is clearly in hell ????



   

Because it is an interesting discussion.

If you dont like the thread and think it is stupid, then dont view this thread or post in it.

Come on now!


----------



## Konigstiger205 (Sep 3, 2007)

Its hard to find the truth...I guess the best way its to go the gates of hell and ask about a guy named Hitler....perhaps then we can find the real truth...whatever that may be.


----------



## Aggie08 (Sep 3, 2007)

If that were true, one word: Mossad.


----------



## Aussie1001 (Sep 3, 2007)

no i dont think its stuiped...
The story i heard was he took cynaid shot his wife and dog got his bunker staff to douse him in petrol and throw him out of the fuhrer bunker where his body was incinerated and later was ploughed up by russian artillary who at the time were of course shelling berlin......


----------



## Graeme (Sep 3, 2007)

Do you think there is a correlation between a quick death, cremation and 'myth'?









Yet why were the blackened corpses of Magda and Joseph Goebbels never in doubt?






Was Elvis Presley cremated?


----------



## Soundbreaker Welch? (Sep 4, 2007)

Is the corpse with a head still left Goebbels?


----------



## Graeme (Sep 4, 2007)

Goebbels corpse.

From Wikipedia;

Voss then joined the group led by SS-Brigadeführer Wilhelm Mohnke which broke out of the bunker and tried to escape from Berlin. Most of the group were captured by Soviet forces the same day. Voss was brought back to the bunker for questioning, and to identify the partly burned bodies of Joseph and Magda Goebbels, and also the bodies of their six children, who had been poisoned. The Soviet account states:

"Vice-Admiral Voss, being asked how he identified the people as Goebbels, his wife and children, explained that he recognised the burnt body of the man as former Reichsminister Goebbels by the following signs: the shape of the head, the line of the mouth, the metal brace that Goebbels had on his right leg, his gold NSDAP badge and the burnt remains of his party uniform."


----------



## timshatz (Sep 4, 2007)

Geobbels and his wife going off to eternity. No big deal. 

But they're murder of their own kids is one I've always been ed with. A couple of the older ones had figured out what was going on and fought but to no avail. The movie "Downfall" has a scene in it covering this. Seems pretty believable.


----------



## Medvedya (Sep 5, 2007)

Hmm - well, I can ask some people I know who might have access to detailed information in Moscow - but just of the top of my head I know that the bodies of Hitler and Eva Braun were taken outside Berlin by a SMERSH unit and a very bodgy autopsy was done on them. 

After this was done, the SMERSH unit, thinking that somebody in either the RKKA or NKVD might make off with the corpses and bag the kudos for themselves buried the bodies in a wood.

However that same night, Red Army troops, thinking treasure might have been buried there dug them straight up and finding what was to them nothing but two charred bodies flung the remains around the area.

The SMERSH guys gathered together what they could and took what was now body bits back to Moscow. 

AFIK - a section of Hitlers crainium is kept in the Lubyanka archives.

Any more than that - I shall have to make inquiries.


----------



## CharlesBronson (May 1, 2009)

Talking about Hitler and Argentina:

*Argentine police arrested 36 skinheads at an event celebrating the 120th anniversary of the birth of Nazi leader Adolf Hitler, officials told AFP on Wednesday.

*The Sunday arrests came after a "prolonged and meticulous investigation," said Daniel Perez, the second in command of the Federal Police unit in charge of investigating hate crimes.

Police broke into the Central Argentine Club, in the town of San Martin, in Buenos Aires province, while a recital was being held by the local chapter of the neo-Nazi group "Blood and Honour," Perez said.

Police found Nazi-related material, including flags with swastikas, films and CDs of music with racist and anti-semitic lyrics, Perez said.

"Blood and Honour," which is based in Britain, has chapters across Europe and the Americas and is aimed at promoting Nazi ideology.

The arrests are "an important success in the struggle to eradicate these groups of Nazi ideology that are a threat to Argentine society," the Delegation of Israeli Associations in Argentina said in a statement.

Argentina has the largest Jewish community in Latin America.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090422/twl-argentina-nabs-36-skinheads-at-hitle-4bdc673.html

By the way I ve seen some images of the Nazis in tv and not all were actually skinheads, some of them were haired, well dressed , quite "normal" people.


----------



## timshatz (May 2, 2009)

Got jokers like them up here too. Guys who think the Civil War isn't over. It's done. Get over it fellas.


----------



## Lucky13 (May 3, 2009)

Just shows you what inbreading can do....


----------



## Watanbe (May 3, 2009)

Whilst personally I think that Hitler did commit suicide in his bunker there are definately some relatively plausible theories. Much more plausible than for example those about Elvis or Tupca. It is unlikely but it isn't totally impossible that Hitler could have escaped to Argentina. 

Germany was a very hectic place towards the end of the war. I don't know, imagine Hitler shaving his beard and adopting a different hairstyle and a change of clothes, I'm sure he could also find some loyal Nazi's still around to keep his secret and help him out of Germany.

Plausible but unlikely!


----------



## Hesekiel (May 3, 2009)

A few days ago here in germany was a nice documentation on tv..
The Russians still have the teeth of this beast in holding (is this the right word?)
The first time it was allowed to make a research of them with modern forensic methodes. They compared them with x-ray pictures and even with a new methode. Compared the reflections of the gold teeth with a film made by Leni Riefenstahl. The result was that it have fit 100%. They also own a piece of a skull plate with a bullethole in it. But this one is too small to bring up a final result. The only possibility to proof this one would be a DNA test. But this was not allowed by the Russians. In my opinion it is approved that he died by suicide in his bunker in 1945.
But nevertheless... This horrible ba....d is dead in any case.. and that´s the thing that counts......


----------



## Maximowitz (May 3, 2009)

Yes, unless he was cryogenically frozen he's certainly dead..

But what of Himmler? Did he survive the war after cutting a deal with the British, brokered by Schellenberg? Is it true that in return for handing over information pertaining to the British Royal Family being involved with financial interests in I G Farben that he was allowed to go free and open a a chain of kebab shops in the East End of London?

I have documents which I faked that prove Goering not only *survived* the Nuremberg trials but his son is in charge of Heathrow Airport. He got into trouble last week for parking his Bf 110 in the disabled section.

All of this is true. I should know, I made it up.


----------



## RabidAlien (May 4, 2009)

He's subletting an apartment/flat with Jimmy Hoffa, Elvis, that guy with the parachute, and the original Mr. Rogers.


----------



## Ferdinand Foch (May 6, 2009)

What guy with the parachute RA, D.B. Cooper?


----------



## fly boy (May 6, 2009)

either way that basturd is dead


----------



## RabidAlien (May 6, 2009)

Ferdinand Foch said:


> What guy with the parachute RA, D.B. Cooper?



Yep, that's the guy! Couldn't remember the name...


----------



## Bullockracing (Sep 28, 2009)

From http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,556343,00.html?test=latestnews

Monday, September 28, 2009 


A skull long believed to be that of Adolf Hitler actually belonged to a woman, according to an American scientist who has taken DNA samples from it.

The skull was taken by Soviet forces in 1945 when they found charred remains outside the Nazi dictator's bunker in Berlin.

The Russians said at the time that the findings backed claims that Hitler had shot himself on April 30, 1945, and then been cremated along with his wife, Eva Braun.

Now, however, archaeologist and bone specialist Nick Bellantoni says the skull really belonged to a woman aged under 40 and not Hitler - who was 56 when he died.

Neither does Mr Bellantoni believe the skull belongs to Braun, Hitler's long-time girlfriend and last-minute wife, who is thought to have killed herself by taking cyanide and would therefore not have had a bullet wound - as this skull has.

The Russians say they have never claimed the skull itself was the chief reason for their belief the skull was Hitler's.

Instead, they point to dental records as confirmation that Hitler killed himself.


----------



## B-17engineer (Sep 28, 2009)

Maybe they took Eva Brauns skull instead and thought it was hitler's


----------



## CharlesBronson (Sep 28, 2009)

> Maybe they took Eva Brauns skull instead and thought it was hitler's



Could be, the 2 bodies were burn togheter. But I think Eva didnt shot herself so I dont think that skull going to have a bullet hole...unless Adolf shot her after she take the cyanide, all this business is just getting weird.


----------



## racerguy00 (Oct 2, 2009)

I truly believe he started to burn outside the bunker in '45 and hasn't stopped since.


----------

