# Galland's Bf 109s



## Njaco (Apr 14, 2009)

Went through my books and magazines and scanned some profiles and others of Adolf Galland's various machines during the early part of the war.


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## Wayne Little (Apr 14, 2009)

For the record Photo no. 5 from 10 o'clock passing the trees to the right is in fact W.Nr 5966.

If you look closely at the area directly above the exhaust it has a camouflaged panel that is not yellow....

Photo's of W.Nr 5966 show it with 50 victories on the rudder.


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## Njaco (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks Wayne. I'm not convinced that photo #3 doesn't have the Mickey Mouse - just above the wing.


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## Wayne Little (Apr 16, 2009)

Looks to me like the Mickey Mouse ears are just visible.....


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## Lucky13 (Apr 16, 2009)

Great stuff!


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## Airframes (Apr 16, 2009)

Nice work Chris. There's a couple there I hadn't seen before, thanks.


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## Locke (Jan 19, 2010)

Those are some awesome pictures, I'm a huge fan of Galland, thanks! xD


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## Heinz (Jan 19, 2010)

Great stuff man thanks for posting!


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## BikerBabe (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks for sharing.


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## 109ROAMING (Jan 19, 2010)

8)


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## BikerBabe (Jan 27, 2010)

There ya go...


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## Cromwell (Jan 27, 2010)

Galland Hood

I am wondering when the famous 'Hood' made its first appearance - and what exactly was its difference from the awful 109 glass-house !

In fact, bearing in mind that many German people are larger than average, how they ever squeezed into that cramped little office in the 109 ? 

Also why the 109 was never fitted with a Bubble style canpoy, at least experimentally (they could have possibly nicked one from a crashed Spit I am sure at some point).


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## imalko (Jan 27, 2010)

Cromwell said:


> Also why the 109 was never fitted with a Bubble style canpoy, at least experimentally (they could have possibly nicked one from a crashed Spit I am sure at some point).



It was but only after the war in Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovak version of Bf 109G built post war and designated Avia S.199 had bubble canopy (although not all examples) and Jumo engines.


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## Njaco (Jan 27, 2010)

Proper name, I believe is the Erla hood which probably came about around 1944.

Found these pics of Galland while cruising through Bundesarchiv. Pretty interesting. The formal ceremony is Moelder's funeral.


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## BikerBabe (Jan 27, 2010)




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## Airframes (Jan 27, 2010)

Superb selection of pics Chris.


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## Cromwell (Jan 27, 2010)

Airframes said:


> Superb selection of pics Chris.



Yes, they are 

But two things are bugging me 

1. Has someone got a pic of an Erla hood AND can explain to me 'la difference' ?

2. Galland's face looks like it has taken a bit of a ding at some point - was he a boxer in his youth or something along those lines ?

Thanks !!


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## BikerBabe (Jan 27, 2010)

Hi Cromwell.

When Galland was young - still only a glider pilot - he suffered a near fatal crash with his glider, simply because he and his friends had tweaked it a little too much.
Galland broke his nose and suffered a nasty skull fracture which sent him into a coma for three days, and glass splinters from the cockpit glass went into one of his eyes.
The glass was going to cause him a lot of trouble with getting a license to fly engined aircraft, and so he cheated with the help of a fellow young officer - and ended up becoming a fighter pilot anyway, but the glass splinters stayed in Galland's eye until the day he died.
So that's why Galland looks like he does on the old photos.


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## piet (Jan 27, 2010)

Cromwell said:


> Yes, they are
> 
> But two things are bugging me
> 
> ...





Galland transferred to the new and technically illegal air force (Luftwaffe) in 1933. During his training Galland crashed his aircraft and was in a coma for three days, suffering from a damaged eye, fractured skull and broken nose. A year later he crashed an Arado Ar 68 and was hospitalized again, aggravating his injured eye. Galland was allowed to continue his training after passing an eye test (which he memorised) he completed his training in Italy in 1935 and was posted to Jagdgeschwader 2 Richthofen, then based at Döberitz airfield near Berlin.

piet


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## imalko (Jan 27, 2010)

Cromwell said:


> 1. Has someone got a pic of an Erla hood AND can explain to me 'la difference' ?



Here you go - old canopy and Erla haube aka Galland hood. The difference is obvious I believe...


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## stona (Jan 27, 2010)

Here is an original Erla haube c/w dive angle indicator. Self evident differences.







Steve


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## Cromwell (Jan 27, 2010)

stona said:


> Here is an original Erla haube c/w dive angle indicator. Self evident differences.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well thanks y'all for your various and remarkably rapid responses - very complete too

I have to say that the Erla is an improvement, but I still do not envy a luftwaffe pilot trying to look forward and to each side of the nose 

Its like a bad pair of NHS specs - or for the Non-Brits here think heavy plastic frames. like Michael Caine


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## Cromwell (Jan 27, 2010)

BikerBabe said:


> Hi Cromwell.
> 
> When Galland was young - still only a glider pilot - he suffered a near fatal crash with his glider, simply because he and his friends had tweaked it a little too much.
> Galland broke his nose and suffered a nasty skull fracture which sent him into a coma for three days, and glass splinters from the cockpit glass went into one of his eyes.
> ...




He really did have a Bionic Glass Eye - it must have hurt like mad

How strange, how brave to keep flying

I am reminded of Matthew 7:5


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## Njaco (Jan 31, 2010)

Some more pics.......


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## Wayne Little (Feb 1, 2010)

The 109E is Galland's regular mount W.Nr.5819.


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## Flaviosil (Feb 1, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> For the record Photo no. 5 from 10 o'clock passing the trees to the right is in fact W.Nr 5966.
> 
> If you look closely at the area directly above the exhaust it has a camouflaged panel that is not yellow....
> 
> Photo's of W.Nr 5966 show it with 50 victories on the rudder.



Wayne
please may you give me more information about the Bf109E W.Nr.5966? You quote a photo of its rudder with 50 victories, may you add some details?
Thank you
Flavio


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## BikerBabe (Feb 1, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> Wayne
> please may you give me more information about the Bf109E W.Nr.5966? You quote a photo of its rudder with 50 victories, may you add some details?
> Thank you
> Flavio



Erm....which photo are we talking about? 
And no matter how much I google, I can't find W.Nr. 5966...that said, it might for all i know be _me _who can't google. 
I checked through all of my files, and there's no mention of a W.Nr. 5966. Typo, mayhap?


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## Njaco (Feb 1, 2010)

Another pic I found from "Bf 109D/E Aces 1939-41" by John Weal.

and Maria thanks for that pic!


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## BikerBabe (Feb 2, 2010)

Njaco said:


> Another pic I found from "Bf 109D/E Aces 1939-41" by John Weal.
> 
> and Maria thanks for that pic!



You're quite welcome. 
Shall I see what else I can find in my Galland-collection, that are plane-related?


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## Flaviosil (Feb 2, 2010)

BikerBabe said:


> Erm....which photo are we talking about?
> And no matter how much I google, I can't find W.Nr. 5966...that said, it might for all i know be _me _who can't google.
> I checked through all of my files, and there's no mention of a W.Nr. 5966. Typo, mayhap?



Hi BikerBabe,
please refer to Wayne Little post of 4-15-2009 in this thread (pag1). He is correct: the Bf 109 in the photos I try to attach is not the famous 5819, but another one. He said it is 5966 but I have no more info, I hope Wayne may help us.
Flavio


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## BikerBabe (Feb 2, 2010)

Alright, thank you, Flaviosil.  

To me, it looks like the E4 that Galland used in mid august - early september 1940, W. Nr. 5398.
Please notice the different-coloured area right in front of the cockpit, that seems like a yellow-coloured area stretching forward to the nose of the plane to me. But there's no Mickey Mouse on it, like the drawings I've seen of 5398...hmmmm.
*digs further*

I'll catch up later, I have to go to work.

Cheers,

Maria.


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## Wayne Little (Feb 2, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> Hi BikerBabe,
> please refer to Wayne Little post of 4-15-2009 in this thread (pag1). He is correct: the Bf 109 in the photos I try to attach is not the famous 5819, but another one. He said it is 5966 but I have no more info, I hope Wayne may help us.
> Flavio





BikerBabe said:


> To me, it looks like the E4 that Galland used in mid august - early september 1940, W. Nr. 5398.
> Please notice the different-coloured area right in front of the cockpit, that seems like a yellow-coloured area stretching forward to the nose of the plane to me. But there's no Mickey Mouse on it, like the drawings I've seen of 5398...hmmmm.
> Maria.



Yes the two pics posted by Flavio ARE of 5966, I didn't mention earlier but the Black green spinner with cap is a feature, 5819 has a Yellow open spinner with a Black Green back plate. also 5966 did not carry the Mickey Mouse insignia. The schlageter badge is slightly different on each aircraft also.
Maria, 5398 was an earlier aircraft flown by Galland.

See below for confirmation of the existence of 5966.....

Source : Bf109E Vol 1 Kagero publications Jakob Plewka


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## Flaviosil (Feb 2, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> Yes the two pics posted by Flavio ARE of 5966, I didn't mention earlier but the Black green spinner with cap is a feature, 5819 has a Yellow open spinner with a Black Green back plate. also 5966 did not carry the Mickey Mouse insignia. The schlageter badge is slightly different on each aircraft also.
> Maria, 5398 was an earlier aircraft flown by Galland.
> 
> See below for confirmation of the existence of 5966.....
> ...



Fantastic Wayne!
Thank you very much.
Flavio


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## BikerBabe (Feb 2, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> Fantastic Wayne!
> Thank you very much.
> Flavio



I second that - thanks for the info, Wayne! 
Hmmm *thinks*...I found another 109 mentioned in one of the Galland scans I did when I had borrowed some books from the library; it could very well be that the 109 mentioned without a W. Nr. is 5966.
I'll see if there's mentioned something more about 5966.
Thanks for sharing that pic, Wayne. 

Cheers,

Maria.


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## Wayne Little (Feb 2, 2010)

You're welcome Flavio and Maria.

I doubt that you will find much relating to 5966 Maria, the aircraft was known but could not be tied to any set of images....any picture of Gallands 109 was basically captioned as 5819 because no pics showed the W.Nr. to confirm that 5966 was used right along side of 5819....that is until the image above and a few others surfaced to confirm its existence.

A couple of others 'thought' to be flown by Galland are 5816, 5965 and 4958.


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## Flaviosil (Feb 2, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> You're welcome Flavio and Maria.
> 
> I doubt that you will find much relating to 5966 Maria, the aircraft was known but could not be tied to any set of images....any picture of Gallands 109 was basically captioned as 5819 because no pics showed the W.Nr. to confirm that 5966 was used right along side of 5819....that is until the image above and a few others surfaced to confirm its existence.
> 
> A couple of others 'thought' to be flown by Galland are 5816, 5965 and 4958.



Very intersting post Wayne!
During my research on Galland's 5819 I also noted some differences between the planes even if the caption always quotes it as 5819...Let's start with this one: for sure it was not 5819 neither 5966; what do you think about its W.Nr.? Have you more information about it?
Thanks Flavio


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## Wayne Little (Feb 2, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> Very intersting post Wayne!
> During my research on Galland's 5819 I also noted some differences between the planes even if the caption always quotes it as 5819...Let's start with this one: for sure it was not 5819 neither 5966; what do you think about its W.Nr.? Have you more information about it?
> Thanks Flavio



I can only tell you it is captioned as another pilots aircraft in JG26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe, and not Gallands aircraft.Will check further when I get home from work...


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## Flaviosil (Feb 3, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> I can only tell you it is captioned as another pilots aircraft in JG26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe, and not Gallands aircraft.Will check further when I get home from work...



You are right Wayne,
some sources quote him as another pilot, but other say he is Galland; I think he could be Galland at Abbeville around the end of december '40.
Flavio


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## Wayne Little (Feb 3, 2010)

Flavio, the above 109 is noted as Fw. Bruno Hegenauer's aircraft of the Stabsschwarm at Abbeville on the 23rd of December. The caption also stating "This aircraft has often been misidentified as Galland's 5819 but lacks the latters wing gun cameras"
There is another shot showing Gallands 5819 taxiing on the same gravel strip from a similar angle, with what appears to be gun cameras inboard of the cannons.


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## Njaco (Feb 3, 2010)

Wayne, was that in Caldwell's book? I couldn't find it in my edition but I did find 2 more pics that I missed.

from "The JG 26 War Diary" by Donald Caldwell......


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## Wayne Little (Feb 3, 2010)

Njaco said:


> Wayne, was that in Caldwell's book? I couldn't find it in my edition but I did find 2 more pics that I missed.
> 
> from "The JG 26 War Diary" by Donald Caldwell......



Yes the JG 26 Top Guns, by Caldwell.

Your pics above first could be 5966, the second IS 5819 upgraded to E-7 standard and repainted.


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## B-17engineer (Feb 3, 2010)

Found this in AIRWAR by Edward Jablonski


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## Flaviosil (Feb 3, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> You're welcome Flavio and Maria.
> 
> I doubt that you will find much relating to 5966 Maria, the aircraft was known but could not be tied to any set of images....any picture of Gallands 109 was basically captioned as 5819 because no pics showed the W.Nr. to confirm that 5966 was used right along side of 5819....that is until the image above and a few others surfaced to confirm its existence.
> 
> A couple of others 'thought' to be flown by Galland are 5816, 5965 and 4958.



Here two new photos from the book "Adolf Galland - Ein Fliegerleben in Krieg und Frieden" by W. Held.

I suspect this plane was Galland's E-4 5398 with 29 kill marks on the rudder, few days before he received the new E-4/N 5819. What do you think?
Flavio


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## BikerBabe (Feb 3, 2010)

Alright guys, here's the files which as far as I can see hasn't been shown here, that I've got stored - there's no particular order in this.
In other words: Welcome to chaos!


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## Wayne Little (Feb 4, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> Here two new photos from the book "Adolf Galland - Ein Fliegerleben in Krieg und Frieden" by W. Held.
> 
> I suspect this plane was Galland's E-4 5398 with 29 kill marks on the rudder, few days before he received the new E-4/N 5819. What do you think?
> Flavio



Some quick observations..... It is NOT 5819, the Schlageter badge is different AND it doesn’t have the Mickey Mouse obviously!
The small triangle stencil below the filler panel is not present on 5819 which has a circular stencil.
5966 does have the triangle stencil, but close examination of the Schlageter badge also reveals it is slightly different to the above image.
The TIP of the command ‘Bar’ extends beyond the just visible vertical panel line, on both 5819 and 5966 the tip stops at the panel line!
It appears to have a high camo demarcation line above the Kommodore Chevron with little or no mottle, the sun light makes it difficult to tell. The ‘Dark’ patches below the cockpit are shadows not camo.
The high camo would tend to indicate an earlier aircraft to 5819 and 5966,5966 has Dark camo extending down and beneath the Chevron and bar, so it is quite probable/ possible that it is 5398.

The second picture just doesn’t provide any concrete details to check due to the angle of the sun but it certainly appears to be the same aircraft. The crew chief? Is certainly dressed the same!

Interesting series of profiles Maria...will review them later...


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## Flaviosil (Feb 4, 2010)

BikerBabe said:


> Alright guys, here's the files which as far as I can see hasn't been shown here, that I've got stored - there's no particular order in this.
> In other words: Welcome to chaos!



Great photos and profiles Maria, thank you for sharing.

The two photos with "Kopierschutz" show the same a/c in the same time: it is 5819 in April 1941 after conversion to E-7.
Flavio


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## Njaco (Feb 4, 2010)

Maria Thanks!!!!!!

and this pic that you posted I have found in one book that states its Galland at Abbeville on 23 December 1940.


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## Wayne Little (Feb 5, 2010)

Njaco said:


> Maria Thanks!!!!!!
> 
> and this pic that you posted I have found in one book that states its Galland at Abbeville on 23 December 1940.



Correct!!


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## Flaviosil (Feb 6, 2010)

Three more photos of W.Nr. 5966 I found in my books; compare the mottles on the wings' edge and on the cowling, they match with those on the other photos of 5966 in this thread.
Flavio


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## Wayne Little (Feb 6, 2010)

The third picture seems to be a new one to me Flavio...Nice!

and yes both the first 2 are definitely 5966..there are a couple more in this series...


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## Flaviosil (Feb 6, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> The third picture seems to be a new one to me Flavio...Nice!
> 
> and yes both the first 2 are definitely 5966..there are a couple more in this series...



Please Wayne may you share them with us?

Thank you
Flavio


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## Njaco (Feb 6, 2010)

interesting how it appears the undercowl has been painted differently between the two or is that just the poor B/W photo?


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## Flaviosil (Feb 6, 2010)

Njaco said:


> interesting how it appears the undercowl has been painted differently between the two or is that just the poor B/W photo?



What seems a different color in the cowling (on the first photo) is instead only the shadow of the blade.
Flavio


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## Wayne Little (Feb 6, 2010)

Njaco said:


> interesting how it appears the undercowl has been painted differently between the two or is that just the poor B/W photo?



Yes there is some shadow that darkens the side, also the angle of the sun makes the rest look a bit darker..

Also It relates to the type of film used, not an expert in this field, but different films render some colours in different tones in black and white images, those first 2 shots are a good example of this, where the first shot makes the yellow lower cowl look quite dark while the other looks more appropriate in tone for the yellow colour, especially from the angle it was taken, as opposed to the first shot

There are other factors that can influence these things too, filters on the camera, developement of the film, exposure...and other things...Terry probably can explain these things much better.


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## Airframes (Feb 6, 2010)

Yep, there are a lot of factors which can alter the tonal ranges shown in black and white (monochrome) pictures. The actual printing of the photograph, and the type of photographic paper used, is also a very important consideration; with an actual print to view, as opposed to a half-tone reproduction or electronic image, it can often be easier to interpret colours and shades.
The type of film used, and then the type of paper the subsequent negative is printed on, are the main factors which will govern tonal and colour reproduction, and this can also be affected by a 'mis-match' of printing paper. A general-purpose monochrome film, in order to give a recognisable, 'known' equal tonal rendition across the range should be what is termed Panchromatic, but, during WW2, this was not always readily available. This was more so with British photography, and quite often Orthochromatic, and even Lithographic films were used. Combine this with an available 'Grade' of photographic paper which would probably not be ideal even for the correct film, and tonal variations and effects can be quite vast.
Also, at this time, 'proper' , or 'professional' photographers would, wherever possible, use a filter on the lens to enhance the tones and the contrast of the background, particularly the sky, although this is often readily apparent (to the 'trained' eye) in many photographs.
One thing which can influence the reproduction of WW2 photographs from German sources was the use of colour film, but printed onto monochrome photographic paper in some cases, perhaps as a 'secondary' print in addition to the primary colour prints originally required. Unless a specialised paper is used, a monochrome print made from a colour negative will not only alter the tonal reproduction dramatically, but can also cause some tones in the 'neutral', or mid-tone areas, to appear lighter or darker than they actually are, depending on exposure and deveoliping times when the print(s) are made.
I'm afraid it is a very involved, and fairly complex subject to explain, even partially, and it is important to allow for the wide range of variations and possibilities when assesing prints from the era, unless definite technical details of the print are known.


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## Njaco (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks Terry! Thats some pretty good info there. And after looking at it again, I think Flav is right - its looks like the prop shadow.


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## Wayne Little (Feb 7, 2010)

Some more shots of Gallands 5966!

A wider better shot of Flavio's image above and 2 additional shots......

Source : Bf109E Vol 1 Kagero publications Jakob Plewka


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## Airframes (Feb 7, 2010)

Great pics Wayne! I suppose I'd better have a look at my copy of the book - didn't know they were in it!!


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## Flaviosil (Feb 7, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> Some more shots of Gallands 5966!
> 
> A wider better shot of Flavio's image above and 2 additional shots......
> 
> Source : Bf109E Vol 1 Kagero publications Jakob Plewka



Thank you very much Wayne!
I already ordered this book from Kagero, with a so great photos I don't want miss it.
I attach one more photo I suspect about 5966 (photo A): I compare it with another one (photo B) and the mottles around the badge and cockpit seem match.
What do you think?
Flavio


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## Cromwell (Feb 7, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> Great photos and profiles Maria, thank you for sharing.
> 
> The two photos with "Kopierschutz" show the same a/c in the same time: it is 5819 in April 1941 after conversion to E-7.
> Flavio



I wonder, was Galland's 'E-type' flown into the ground by someone else ? shot down but he parachuted ?

I know he switched to a somewhat rare 5-gun F type to test the new features, gun arrangements etc

In fact, thinking about it, did most 109E's end their days as Jabo's - flown until destroyed or just plain knackered ?


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## imalko (Feb 7, 2010)

When withdrawn from front line service many Bf 109Es were also used as advanced trainers or were delivered to German Axis allies.


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## herman1rg (Feb 7, 2010)

Just wondering if anyone has any pictures of Galland with aircraft he flew with JV44?


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## Njaco (Feb 7, 2010)

Flav, if you can, try to re-size those pics to about 800 - 1024 pix.

Maria, here is a pic for ya.....


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## Flaviosil (Feb 7, 2010)

Njaco said:


> Flav, if you can, try to re-size those pics to about 800 - 1024 pix.
> 
> Maria, here is a pic for ya.....



Ok, ri-sized.
As I said I attach one more photo I suspect about 5966 (photo A): I compare it with another one (photo B) and the mottles around the badge and cockpit seem match.
What do you think?
Flavio


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## BikerBabe (Feb 7, 2010)

Njaco said:


> -cut- Maria, here is a pic for ya.....



Thanks Njaco, I already have that one, but not in such a good resolution. 
Here's a few faves of mine, then:






A total fave - those two gents together, Galland and Stanford-Tuck?
Dang, I'd love to have been a little fly on the inside of that cockpit glass! 






A hunting permit for a very young Galland, from Held's book:






Pre-glider crash:






Oops - photographer!


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## Wayne Little (Feb 8, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> Ok, ri-sized.
> As I said I attach one more photo I suspect about 5966 (photo A): I compare it with another one (photo B) and the mottles around the badge and cockpit seem match.
> What do you think?
> Flavio



Absolutely, it is definitely 5966...

Look closely at the following shot, it is not 5966, it is not 5819....the schlageter badge is very very similar to 5966 but has differences....?? also the mottled camo is different and there is no telescopic sight in the windscreen!!?? 
Plus 5966 for comparrison.....


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## beaupower32 (Feb 8, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> Ok, ri-sized.
> As I said I attach one more photo I suspect about 5966 (photo A): I compare it with another one (photo B) and the mottles around the badge and cockpit seem match.
> What do you think?
> Flavio




Is it just me or is Photo A and Photo B not the same plane. The reason I say it is first off plane A doesnt have the Telescope sight as Plane B does. Now I dont know when they were added or if it just wasnt installed yet. Just a small obversation I had. Also plane A has the aircraft data plate under the badge and plane B doesnt appear to have it. Again this could be the same plane, just a little bit of time between the two photos.


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## BikerBabe (Feb 8, 2010)

Beaup, the telescope were only used for a few days by Galland, before it was removed, so it can still be the same plane, only before or after the telescope were tested.
Am digging up a photo with text regarding the telescope, brb. 

EDIT: Here ya go, it's from Toliver and Constable's book on Galland:






And a small series of pics from Werner Held's book on Galland:


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## beaupower32 (Feb 8, 2010)

Thanks BB.


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## Flaviosil (Feb 8, 2010)

beaupower32 said:


> Is it just me or is Photo A and Photo B not the same plane. The reason I say it is first off plane A doesnt have the Telescope sight as Plane B does. Now I dont know when they were added or if it just wasnt installed yet. Just a small obversation I had. Also plane A has the aircraft data plate under the badge and plane B doesnt appear to have it. Again this could be the same plane, just a little bit of time between the two photos.



Hi Beaupower32,
I confirm that photo "A" and "B" show the same plane: unfortunately (I don't know the reason) photo "A" I posted was re-touched and the telescope sight deleted; the correct and original one is posted by Wayne Little just minutes before your post. As you may note the telescope was in; if you pay attention on photo "B" is also visible the data plate (the resolution is very low but there are two little white dots under the JG26's badge).

To Maria: _"...the telescope were only used for a few days by Galland, before it was removed,.."_.
Even if some sources quote this, I think this information is wrong; photographic evidences infact confirm that Galland's 5819 was equipped with this feature some time in October '40, it was never removed and it was still there in April '41; moreover the telescope was also installed on Galland's reserve aircraft Bf109E 5966 and on his first Bf109F model also: a very large use I think!

Flavio


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## Flaviosil (Feb 8, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> Look closely at the following shot, it is not 5966, it is not 5819....the schlageter badge is very very similar to 5966 but has differences....?? also the mottled camo is different and there is no telescopic sight in the windscreen!!??



Hi Wayne,
I think the photo you posted shows 5819 few days after Galland received it (some sources infact state _“Major Galland being congratulated on his 40th victory by his chief mechanic, Uffz. Meyer, 24 Sept.”_. I post a photo-study I made hoping it may confirm this. If so 5819 received telescopic sight in October like the Mouse emblem. Moreover the original stencil under the oil filler cap was triangular and it was changed some time at the begin of 1941.

Flavio


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## Airframes (Feb 8, 2010)

Note that aircraft A,B and C have the top plate on the head armour, whereas 'D' does not. This is also evident in the pics Wayne posted. Aircraft D,E and F are the same machine, and unless re-painted, are not the same machine as the other pics. Note the shape and angle of the Kommodere Winkel.


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## Njaco (Feb 9, 2010)

Found some new pics on a collectables website. Might shed more light on the crate.

and the He 111 is apparently one that Galland flew - according to the caption.


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## Airframes (Feb 9, 2010)

Good stuff Chris ! That painted - over area where the two cover plates are is interesting. I don't remember seeing that so clearly before - but then there's a few things I don't remember occassionally!


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## Saetta66 (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm sorry: just tell me how delete the pics, thank you


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## Njaco (Feb 9, 2010)

Thanks Saet! Some good stuff there. Might I suggest starting a thread about him as I want to keep this one on Galland. From your other posts sounds like you have some good Italian history and maybe soon you can add to a Battle of Britain thread I'm gonna start in a few months.

Terry, thats one of the things I noticed and may help in IDing which plane is which. And I know 'yellow' shows up dark but that is really dark on that cowl and a few other posted pics.


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## beaupower32 (Feb 9, 2010)

My apologies if some of these have been posted before. My computer wont open up some of your pictures. These are a few I found off the internet. 
































Bf-109F


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## Njaco (Feb 9, 2010)

Thanks Beau!

You know, er might be able to get enough pics to post together a series and make a .gif!!

Some more.

Herman, could only find profiles.

and a nice one for Maria!


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## BikerBabe (Feb 9, 2010)

Thanks Njaco and Beaupower. 

Am saving all files related to Galland (my poor harddisc drive!  ), and there's some photos in between that I haven't seen before - thanks for sharing, folks.


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## Njaco (Feb 9, 2010)

Thats what we're here for! 

I've been collecting pics of Moelders and Hartmann's machines as well - will start those threads soon.


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## beaupower32 (Feb 10, 2010)

Cant wait to see the pics of hartmanns machine.


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## Locke (Feb 10, 2010)

Wow, I'm loving these pics, guys! *saves them all*


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## B-17engineer (Feb 10, 2010)

Njaco said:


> Thats what we're here for!
> 
> I've been collecting pics of Moelders and Hartmann's machines as well - will start those threads soon.



Can't wait for them


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## Njaco (Feb 10, 2010)

Just did Moelder's thread.


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## Njaco (Feb 10, 2010)

couple more.......


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## Wayne Little (Feb 11, 2010)

I continue my study of Gallands 109's either 5966 had a repaint?? or there is another as yet unidentified E flown by Galland that had a number of images taken that is confusing the process of which aircraft is which....5819 or 5966 or ???? 
There are some distinctly different camo patterns but one thing I am taking for granted at this time, is that the Schlageter badges were NOT painted over in a repaint or repaints, and there are 3 different badges that fit within the primary aircraft's (5819) time frame of use....more discussion to come!!


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## Njaco (Feb 11, 2010)

Cool!!!!!


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## Flaviosil (Feb 11, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> I continue my study of Gallands 109's either 5966 had a repaint?? or there is another as yet unidentified E flown by Galland that had a number of images taken that is confusing the process of which aircraft is which....5819 or 5966 or ????
> There are some distinctly different camo patterns but one thing I am taking for granted at this time, is that the Schlageter badges were NOT painted over in a repaint or repaints, and there are 3 different badges that fit within the primary aircraft's (5819) time frame of use....more discussion to come!!



Thank you Wayne for this post: I agree with you, we have to stay focused on this thread, exchanging studies and opinions, the most important things.
Just to start, please refer to my latest posts; I tried to give you my following opinions:
1- 5819 at the begin had not the telescope neither the mouse badge; they were added later, probably in October.
2- The telescope was never removed as was the mouse badge.
3- I think when 5819 was repainted at the begin of 1941, for some unknow reasons the stencil under the oil filler cap was changed: it was triangular then circular (black or red?); I suspect when this was done it was necessary to repaint the area near this stencil and this is why the JG26's has to be changed and repainted smaller. If necessary I may arrange a photographic study to support this.

Please everybody wants to contribute to this discussion fell free to post!
Thank you
Flavio


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## Wayne Little (Feb 12, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> Thank you Wayne for this post: I agree with you, we have to stay focused on this thread, exchanging studies and opinions, the most important things.
> Just to start, please refer to my latest posts; I tried to give you my following opinions:
> 1- 5819 at the begin had not the telescope neither the mouse badge; they were added later, probably in October.
> 2- The telescope was never removed as was the mouse badge.
> ...



Please go ahead with your image study, Flavio...I just wish all images could be dated to give us an orderly progression!


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## Flaviosil (Feb 12, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> Please go ahead with your image study, Flavio...I just wish all images could be dated to give us an orderly progression!



W.Nr. 5819 Phase 2
At the begin of 1941, during Galland’s leave, W.Nr. 5819 was converted from E-4/N to E-7/Z: it was equipped with drop tank fittings to increase operational range (E-7 feature) and was added an additional equipment for a further improvement of the performance in high altitudes (280 HP at 8.000 m) through the injection of a mixture of nitrous oxide (laughing gas) into aircraft engine (designated GM-1 system). I attach some photos that clearly show the drop tank fitting and the light paint patch beneath the Geschwaderkommodore markings where the GM-1 system was mounted.
5819 was re-camouflaged during this time and the rudder was completely painted over with fresh yellow paint: the victory bars were re-applied in a slight different position, without the RLM 65 rectangle: at the begin there were 57 bars, then 58 and finally 60. Also the JG26 badge was modified (smaller than the previous): probably it was necessary to paint it again when something on the oil filler cap was changed (the stencil beneath it was modified -from a brown triangle to a black circle). The red arrow points out a light shadow around the new badge, probably the trace of the previous bigger one. At the end of April '41 5819was transferred to Egr.Gr.26 and modified again (phase 3).

Your comment will be welcome!
Flavio


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## Wayne Little (Feb 13, 2010)

Flavio, the second to last shot in the post above...where does that come from? I haven't seen that one before.


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## Flaviosil (Feb 13, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> Flavio, the second to last shot in the post above...where does that come from? I haven't seen that one before.



The picture cames from Revi magazine n°76/2009.
Please Wayne I am interested to your opinion about what I wrote in my previous posts.
Thanks, Flavio


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## Cromwell (Feb 13, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> Flavio, the second to last shot in the post above...where does that come from? I haven't seen that one before.



Yes ... it is interesting and it is also Copy Protected for sooth

To be honest, it looks an awful lot like a large coiled yellow sausage

Anyone else any ideas ?


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## Wayne Little (Feb 13, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> The picture cames from Revi magazine n°76/2009.
> Please Wayne I am interested to your opinion about what I wrote in my previous posts.
> Thanks, Flavio



Does the Revi magazine have an article on Galland?

I am currently reviewing your comments and comparing data and images.....


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## Flaviosil (Feb 14, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> Does the Revi magazine have an article on Galland?
> 
> I am currently reviewing your comments and comparing data and images.....



No article, only the photo, posted in the review of Edward Bf 109E-4 plastic kit.
Flavio


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## Njaco (Feb 14, 2010)

Cromwell said:


> Yes ... it is interesting and it is also Copy Protected for sooth
> 
> To be honest, it looks an awful lot like a large coiled yellow sausage
> 
> Anyone else any ideas ?



I believe its to hide the swastika.


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## Cromwell (Feb 15, 2010)

Njaco said:


> I believe its to hide the swastika.



I see so now it is a 'Sausage-stika'

Is this 'cos Swastikas are illegal in Germany ? (or just considered bad taste maybe)


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## Njaco (Feb 15, 2010)

yeah, pobably. Most likely the pic came from a collector site or ebay and they do things like that.


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## Cromwell (Feb 15, 2010)

Njaco said:


> yeah, pobably. Most likely the pic came from a collector site or ebay and they do things like that.



I wonder how they treat artifacts from Indian religions and culture which are often plastered with Swastikas ?


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## Wayne Little (Feb 18, 2010)

Some answers for you Flavio....


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## beaupower32 (Feb 18, 2010)

Very intresting, thanks for posting wayne.


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## Flaviosil (Feb 18, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> Some answers for you Flavio....



Very interesting post Wayne, I agree with you.

Just one comment about the Mouse emblem: I made some photographic studies and camparisons using Corel Photopaint and the emblem on the plane of 1941 matches excactly in dimension and position with that of 1940; of course there are very small differences as you pointed out, but I don't think it was completely repainted, probably only re-touched during the repainting of the fuselage.
I attach one interesting photo (from Jagdwaffe vol.2, Classic Pub.); this is almost certainly 5819 at the begin of 1941 soon after the application of GM-1 system; the repainting was started but not yet finished (no mottles on fuselage), the JG26's new emblem as to be still added while the mouse was already there. Note the absence of the telescope, probably removed for a while.
Flavio


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## Adaing1976 (Feb 18, 2010)

Is there somebody who can identify those people??


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## Flaviosil (Feb 18, 2010)

Adaing1976 said:


> Is there somebody who can identify those people??



In the centre there is British ace Douglas Bader after taken prisoner in 1941; at his left Galland, barely visible.
Flavio


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## Adaing1976 (Feb 18, 2010)

Bene Flavio hai colto nel segno!!

(Good shot Flavio!!)


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## Wayne Little (Feb 20, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> Very interesting post Wayne, I agree with you.
> 
> Just one comment about the Mouse emblem: I made some photographic studies and camparisons using Corel Photopaint and the emblem on the plane of 1941 matches excactly in dimension and position with that of 1940; of course there are very small differences as you pointed out, but I don't think it was completely repainted, probably only re-touched during the repainting of the fuselage.
> I attach one interesting photo (from Jagdwaffe vol.2, Classic Pub.); this is almost certainly 5819 at the begin of 1941 soon after the application of GM-1 system; the repainting was started but not yet finished (no mottles on fuselage), the JG26's new emblem as to be still added while the mouse was already there. Note the absence of the telescope, probably removed for a while.
> Flavio



You make a good point Flavio, but I do feel it was 'repainted', I say this rather than 're-touched' because I stared at the 2 images for quite some time, there are a lot of very small changes, too many to just retouch it....I think the original Mouse was lightly sprayed over retaining the faint image below on which the new version was painted, hence, as you say exact dimension and position....thats my take on it. 
Remember the original 'S' badge was lightly oversprayed and overpainted and as you rightly pointed out it is still faintly visible.

Yes, I have the Jagdwaffe series and that image...I think the light mottling is there, it's just a sh!tty reproduction that is a bit light and grainy, a good image none the less to show the progression of this aircraft's changes..


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## Airframes (Feb 20, 2010)

I think Wayne is right. I seem to remember reading, many years ago, about the re-painting, and how it was done virtually as Wayne described. Also, the mottle _is_ there on the print. It's just, as Wayne pointed out, a poor reproduction.


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## Flaviosil (Feb 21, 2010)

Wayne Little said:


> ....I think the original Mouse was lightly sprayed over retaining the faint image below on which the new version was painted, hence, as you say exact dimension and position....
> 
> Yes, I have the Jagdwaffe series and that image...I think the light mottling is there, it's just a sh!tty reproduction that is a bit light and grainy, a good image none the less to show the progression of this aircraft's changes..



You could be right Wayne, what a pity this image was printed so bad…

This time I attach some photos of 5819’s starboard side.
The first four photos were taken in 1940 at Audembert and Abeville, while the last five in 1941 after the plane was repainted; probably the last three photos were made on the same occasion.
Although “S” badge is only barely visible on 1940 photos, I suppose it was in shape and dimension like that on the port side, and like that, it was overpainted and changed to a new style in 1941.

A point of interest in the color photo (source “Luftwaffe im focus” n°4): the plane in the foreground is 5819 while the second E-4/N is Galland’s back-up machine; it could be 5966 even if the color of the spinner is yellow (5966 was always photographed with a RLM70 spinner …).

Flavio


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## Njaco (Feb 21, 2010)

Flavio, I'm not sure that in the background plane in the color photo is Galland's 5966 - it appears to have a JG 52 badge under the tarp. Unless 5966 came from JG 52?


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## Flaviosil (Feb 21, 2010)

Njaco said:


> Flavio, I'm not sure that in the background plane in the color photo is Galland's 5966 - it appears to have a JG 52 badge under the tarp. Unless 5966 came from JG 52?



Good point Njaco; if I well understand you suggest the presence of JG52 badge on the cowling of the plane. Any way what seems a tarp on the cowling is infact only the dark dresses of the mechanics busy to operate around the engine after the cowling panel was removed. The black segment behind the cowling panel is an air scoop as I pointed out on the photo in attach (the real 5699). Any way the problem is that this panel is yellow while on 5966 it seems to be in the original camouflage colors; I suspect the plane in the background was not 5966…
Flavio


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## Flaviosil (Feb 21, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> Good point Njaco; if I well understand you suggest the presence of JG52 badge on the cowling of the plane. Any way what seems a tarp on the cowling is infact only the dark dresses of the mechanics busy to operate around the engine after the cowling panel was removed. The black segment behind the cowling panel is an air scoop as I pointed out on the photo in attach (the real 5699). Any way the problem is that this panel is yellow while on 5966 it seems to be in the original camouflage colors; I suspect the plane in the background was not 5966…
> Flavio



The photo I tried to attach failed, second attempt...


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## Flaviosil (Feb 21, 2010)

Flaviosil said:


> The photo I tried to attach failed, second attempt...



Next attempt


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## Njaco (Feb 21, 2010)

I see what you mean. Very possible.


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## Lucky13 (Feb 22, 2010)

Great stuff guys!


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## Wayne Little (Feb 22, 2010)

On first look the final 2 images posted by Flavio are of two different aircraft, again the Mickey mouse badges are different....AND the one above them both, the emblem is different again??? but is definitely the final scheme of 5819 with the 60 victories...still trying to determine if one of the final 2 partial shots is 5819 repainted from the heavier camo'ed 1940 version....looks like the left hand one IS...further scrutiny in order...


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## Airframes (Feb 22, 2010)

I think this was a deliberate ploy, on the part of Galland and his 'Blackmen', to really F*^ things up for modellers 70 years later!!


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## Pong (Feb 22, 2010)

Great pics!


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## B-17engineer (Feb 22, 2010)

Airframes said:


> I think this was a deliberate ploy, on the part of Galland and his 'Blackmen', to really F*^ things up for modellers 70 years later!!



Yep, it's a conspiracy.


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## BikerBabe (Feb 22, 2010)

No matter what, it's a load of great pictures. Thanks for the photos, guys.


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## gepp (Feb 25, 2010)

what amazing pics  these are the only galland pics i have one of him hunting and the last one i think its werner molders standing a the wing.


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## Cromwell (Feb 25, 2010)

B-17engineer said:


> Yep, it's a conspiracy.



Yes those Nazis knew a thing or two - as well as developing flying saucers in secret ant-arctic bases, they also predicted with amazing accuracy the distress they could cause to aviation modellers across the world simply by tweaking the nose art on their aircraft in the first part of WW2.

Imagine if they had won ?

Airfix would have been ruined and Revell, well, I hardly dare think..


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## Njaco (Feb 28, 2010)

Not sure if these have been posted but the one apparently is depicting his 40th? victory on 25 September 1940.


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## Flaviosil (Mar 1, 2010)

Njaco said:


> Not sure if these have been posted but the one apparently is depicting his 40th? victory on 25 September 1940.



Dear Njaco,

the plane in the first two photos seems to be the same; as far as I know the markings on it suggest this was the plane of a Geschwader Adjutant, so it could be the plane of Maj Gerhard Schoepfel.

Flavio


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## Njaco (Jun 8, 2010)

Just found another to add to this thread....


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## Njaco (Jun 17, 2010)

Found a few more including one with him in flight!


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## B-17engineer (Jun 17, 2010)

Nice worK Chris!


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## Wayne Little (Jun 18, 2010)

The second and third shots were recently on ebay...


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## Airframes (Jun 18, 2010)

Nice stuff Chris. I believe the third shot is a 'still' from some cine film. Think I've got the fottage somewhere.


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## BikerBabe (Jun 21, 2010)




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## Njaco (Sep 30, 2010)

found this about his 'F' model....


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## Civettone (Oct 1, 2010)

I was also thinking about that last section. It always puzzled me as to why Mtt never managed such a clear confiiguration 

Krix


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## BikerBabe (Oct 1, 2010)




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## BikerBabe (Nov 30, 2010)

Found a few that I haven't seen before of Werk Nr. 5819:


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## Wurger (Nov 30, 2010)




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## beaupower32 (Nov 30, 2010)

Intresting Pictures, thanks for posting. They are really clear by the way.


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## Njaco (Nov 30, 2010)

Falkeeins is a member here. Wonder if he would have the originals without the added markings for us to post here?


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## Wayne Little (Dec 4, 2010)

Great pics, they were on ebay a while back now...


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## Njaco (Dec 28, 2010)

I just made a photo album of the pics posted here. Should be in the members section.


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## P-40K-5 (Jan 7, 2011)

anybody have any good pics of Gallands Me 109F-2 "Special" with the
MG 131 machine guns in the cowl?


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## Airframes (Jan 7, 2011)

Think I've got a couple somewhere, although some have been posted already IIRC.


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## Crimea_River (Jan 8, 2011)

Maria posted one in post 44, copied below.

Also the one in Chris's post #130 above the text is his "special". Just cropped off that picture on the left side above the crank is the blister for the cowl guns. I have a slightly wider pic showing it.


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## Airframes (Jan 8, 2011)

Thanks Andy, that's the pic I have - saved me looking for it! Also got pics of his F6/U with the wing cannon.


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## P-40K-5 (Jan 8, 2011)

sweet. thanks guys. will be very helpful for my 1:5.5 scale "Special" I'm going to be doing.
also doing another one of H. Petzschler ship.


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## Gerry (Jan 13, 2011)

What a great thread! Unfortunately I don't have any visual material to contribute, only questions. I am researching Gallant's 109s, with a view to building the 1/32 Matchbox Bf 109E-4. I don't have a great deal of knowledge of the 109 and its various marks and I have no "hard" references, books, pictures etc., so my research is is largely internet based.

This thread is a real jewel and I have been following it for the last few weeks. I am astounded with the depth of knowledge shown by the contributors and their generosity in sharing their superb references with the rest of the forum. There should be everything here I need for the build, however, because of my lack of knowledge on the subject I am still confused and was hoping to clarify some of the issues. 

I don't want to dilute this thread, so I was wondering whether I should post my questions on this thread, or start a Build Thread and pose my questions there?

Any suggestions would be welcome.


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## Airframes (Jan 13, 2011)

Probably better in a Build thread in modelling. 
Also, if you have a look in the BoB Group Build threads, you will find my build of the Matchbox '109E, which might help, and there is also another thread of mine with a review of the kit compared to the old (and still current, but overpriced) Hasegawa kit, plus yet another thread on refurbishing a Matchbox 1/32nd scale which was over 25 years old when first built.


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## Gerry (Jan 13, 2011)

Thanks for the prompt reply, Terry. Will start a thread in The 'Start to finish builds' section in the next day or so. Will call it 'Galland's Bf 109E-4, 1/32 scale' or something similar. Hope you and some of the contributors to this thread will check it out and maybe give me some guidance on the markings. 

I've found the BoB Build very informative, (lots of 109s!). Came late to it but have already bookmarked your 'White 6' build (most impressive) and your kit comparison review along with Wurger's build of the Airfix 1/24 Scale 109E as my template for getting the structure accurate. I have also bookmarked 'Ozhawk's' 'Hans von Hahn's' build as a fallback, if the Galland build doesn't work out. Haven't been able to locate your old Matchbox Refurbishment thread yet. Can you recall what section you posted in?

My next post will be in the new thread.


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## Crimea_River (Jan 13, 2011)

Just watch somebody respond to your separate thread with a link to this one!


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## Airframes (Jan 13, 2011)

Yeah!
Gerry, pleased to help in whatever way possible. Ignore all the decals and paint instructions in the kit for Galland's kite, they're very inaccurate! Plenty of refs for his Es though, just shout when you're ready.
far as I remember, the thread on the refurb is in Start to Finish builds, titled Messerschmitt Makeover, and is around page 5 or 6. It was done last May.


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## Gerry (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks, Crimea River (sorry, don't know your name) Terry. Have started a thread in 'Start to Finish Builds' 
<http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/start-finish-builds/gallands-bf-109e-4-1-32-scale-27756.html#post756165>
and have posted some profiles with some questions.


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## Njaco (Jan 19, 2011)

Some profiles and artist renderings - unknown sources except two profiles from "Hitler's Luftwaffe" by Bill Gunston.


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## Crimea_River (Jan 19, 2011)

The model (diecast?) looks very wrong.


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## imalko (Jan 19, 2011)

I believe this is a paper model, like those Wojtek builds. But true, doesn't represent too accurate look of Galland's crate. Neither do the first two profiles for that matter. I remember seeing them in an old book while looking around one antique bookstore in Belgrade years back. Probably the same book which Chris mentioned.


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## Gerry (Jan 20, 2011)

Najco, If you posted those drawings in response to my questions, thank you. I found the 2 yellow open spinner illustrations very interesting, and they seem to be pointing to where I want to be. I've just started my build in the 'start to Finish Builds' thread, hope you'll look in on it at some stage.


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## Njaco (Jan 20, 2011)

I've been watching it and it made me realize I had a few more pics. Be aware as you can see by the profiles, many 'assume' what his plane looked like. I would follow the actual pics posted throughout.


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## Njaco (Feb 1, 2011)

not exactly a Bf 109


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## BikerBabe (Feb 3, 2011)

Hi again guys.

Got me another Airfix 1/48 109, the next project's going to be 4/JG51 Mölders' 109.


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## Crimea_River (Feb 3, 2011)

Maria's hooked!


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## Njaco (Feb 3, 2011)

Gotta check out the Moelders thread then!


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## BikerBabe (Feb 4, 2011)

Ayup!


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## Gnomey (Feb 4, 2011)

Good stuff guys!


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## Wotan (Feb 11, 2011)

new from ebay


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## BikerBabe (Feb 11, 2011)

Neat. 

The text reads:
"The pride of the squadron, wing commander lieutenant colonel Galland.
Leibold".

This was signed by fighter pilot Erwin Leibold, who flew in JG 26. 
He was credited with 11 victories.
Erwin Leibold - Pilot Profile - Erwin Leibold


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## Njaco (May 4, 2011)

not sure if this has been posted....


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## BikerBabe (May 5, 2011)

It has.


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## Njaco (Jun 28, 2011)

a few with his Fw 190. Someone ought to do this for the "Aces" Group Build! You always see the Bf 109.


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 28, 2011)

Beautiful! He was such a class act.


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## Airframes (Jun 29, 2011)

Nice work Chris.


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## Gnomey (Jun 29, 2011)

Indeed, nice shots Chris!


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## P-40K-5 (Jun 29, 2011)

heres a colour susposed photo of one of Gallands 109's making a low pass. maybe somebody can ID which Bf109 it is?
sorry if its been posted already.


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## Njaco (Jul 1, 2011)

I'm not sure. I don't think Galland had any 109 that had an emblem on the cowling.


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## P-40K-5 (Jul 1, 2011)

it was a pic being sold on E-bag for 20 euro. but looking at it closely, its seems to be a G-6.
I don't think Galland flew a G-6?


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## Wayne Little (Jul 2, 2011)

Njaco said:


> a few with his Fw 190. Someone ought to do this for the "Aces" Group Build! You always see the Bf 109.



Markings for that Fw190 are in the 1/32 A-6 Kit from hasegawa....if anyone is interested!


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## Njaco (Jul 2, 2011)

Not sure he ever flew a G-6 or any 'G' model.


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## Njaco (Jul 20, 2011)

A few more I found. Might even be a repeat here or there!  And the Sibel is listed as his.


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## Njaco (Aug 21, 2011)

so what if its been posted before? I'm too lazy to check!


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## Wotan (Nov 18, 2011)

....


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## Wayne Little (Nov 18, 2011)

That is sweet, Wotan, victory markings require adjustment though, 1-30 plus 36,37,41, 59 and 60 are RED, remainder in BLACK..!


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## Njaco (Nov 18, 2011)

Nice an clean!


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## Wotan (Nov 18, 2011)

Thanks. 
Other variant




View attachment 183576


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## Wayne Little (Nov 22, 2011)

Excellent, depicted in the correct colours and sequence, to be truely accurate the first vertical row should start approximately 1 row out from where you have shown it, all 10 rows should fit within the yellow line as I have shown, when repainted on the yellow rudder they were re done slightly closer together than before the repaint.

See my PDF note on the subject!


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## Njaco (Nov 22, 2011)

Question: Did Galland ever claim a Blenheim while flying an Emil?


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## herman1rg (Nov 22, 2011)

Njaco said:


> Question: Did Galland ever claim a Blenheim while flying an Emil?



Take a look here.

Aces of the Luftwaffe - Adolf Galland

Couple of Blenheims mentioned but not what Galland was flying at the time.


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## Njaco (Nov 22, 2011)

Ok, thanks. I didn't think he would have come across any until '41 when he was flying a Friedrich but it looks like he had 3 before June '40.


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## Wayne Little (Nov 23, 2011)

Chris, Gallands 68th victory was in F-2 W.Nr.5776, shortly after he was shot down and crash landed the aircraft. the other F series victories i'm not sure yet which aircraft he was flying.


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## Njaco (Nov 23, 2011)

I was actually referring to Wotan's image and was wondering if Galland had come across Blenheims in the Emil. I was thinking '41 when he most definately would have had the Friedrich but the site from herman shows he claimd Blenheims in early '40 so Wotan's pic can be represenative of an action by Galland.


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## Wotan (Nov 23, 2011)

Wayne Little said:


> Excellent, depicted in the correct colours and sequence, to be truely accurate the first vertical row should start approximately 1 row out from where you have shown it, all 10 rows should fit within the yellow line as I have shown, when repainted on the yellow rudder they were re done slightly closer together than before the repaint.



Thank you very much, but this is impossible because of the size of the skin. the distance between the "beams" will not be smooth. (smooth, uniform? sorry ) 



Njaco said:


> I was actually referring to Wotan's image and was wondering if Galland had come across Blenheims in the Emil. I was thinking '41 when he most definately would have had the Friedrich but the site from herman shows he claimd Blenheims in early '40 so Wotan's pic can be represenative of an action by Galland.


Thank you, I know that he was not shot down, so in Russian, I call this picture "не засчитали...." )))) http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=67917&page=53&p=1731809&viewfull=1#post1731809
I do not know as such term will be in English.... "have not confirmed the victory...", "Haven't included...",
"not counted...."? 



again sorry for my bad English


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## Njaco (Nov 23, 2011)

No problem. Good pic!


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## Flavio (Nov 28, 2011)

Hi Wayne,

good research about the "two colours" victory markings; I think these two colours were probably used to distinguish kills gained on that very plane (black) from those gained on different planes (red). See the kill board on Bf109F W.Nr.6714: all the bars were red apart the last two (black).
Flavio


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## Wayne Little (Nov 29, 2011)

Flavio said:


> Hi Wayne,
> 
> good research about the "two colours" victory markings; I think these two colours were probably used to distinguish kills gained on that very plane (black) from those gained on different planes (red). See the kill board on Bf109F W.Nr.6714: all the bars were red apart the last two (black).
> Flavio



Hi Flavio, yes the Red and Black were definitely used, and you are correct with 6714 as 59 and 60 were scored in this aircraft as were 61,62,63 and 66 all black while the following were Red 64 and 65 were in E-7 5819, 67 I don't know and 68 was F-2, 5776 and 69 in F-2 6713 both these aircraft were lost in combat after the victories. the colour sequence can be easily distinguished from a tail shot inside a hangar.


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## Flavio (Nov 29, 2011)

I agree with you Wayne.

At this point we can say that Galland used a "colour code" for his kill markings; if really so, he gained only victories number 92, 93 and 94 flying WNr.6750, while Bf109E "<<+I" with 22 kill markings was indeed his first Bf109 WNr.936, used by Galland at Stab JG 27 and carried with him when he was promoted at the head of III./JG 26.

Flavio


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## Wayne Little (Nov 30, 2011)

Hi Again Flavio, yes that would be the case with 6750 scoring those 3 victories, I wonder then if the other specially armed 109 with the cowl bulges actually scored any victories? This would then change the colour sequence before no.92....

see my build of 6750 in Group Build 11#

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/11-aircraft-aces/finished-bf109f-2-u-special-adolf-galland-aircraft-aces-gb-30849.html

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/11-aircraft-aces/done-bf109f-2-u-special-adolf-galland-aircraft-aces-gb-29920.html

Now the other aircraft you mention... I am less sure on the identity of this and the other early 109's I do find the colour sequence puzzling of Black then Red..i need to review the early machines to get things straight..

5819 initially had what appears to be a correct colour sequence with the first 30 Red and then Black and Red victories, then for some odd reason when it was reapplied on the Lt. Blue background the victories were in an incorrect sequence of 22 Red followed by 23-40 in Black with the exception of 36-37 in Red, this was in place for some time before it was then corrected again with the painting of the yellow rudder in late Nov. or early Dec, returning the first 30 victories to Red.


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## le_steph40 (Nov 30, 2011)

Hello,

Sorry but my English language is poor.. 
Just a question regarding w.nr.5819... Do I understand that w.nr.5819 was RLM71-02-65 camo scheme from early Sept.1940 to Dec.1940 and repainted RLM74/75 early in 1941 ?
I've heard somewhere on the web that galland 5819 was already originally in RLM74/75 but I though it was early for this camo scheme during September 1940...

TIA


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## Wayne Little (Nov 30, 2011)

le_steph40 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Sorry but my English language is poor..
> Just a question regarding w.nr.5819... Do I understand that w.nr.5819 was RLM71-02-65 camo scheme from early Sept.1940 to Dec.1940 and repainted RLM74/75 early in 1941 ?
> ...



Fairly certain Galland's 5819 was in 71/02/65 with densely mottled fuselage until late Nov or early Dec 1940 then a change occurred. The fuselage pattern was redone and much less dense and the wing pattern altered slightly. Personally I think it still retained the 71/02/65 scheme. 
The often quoted number of repaints were more likely to do with the fact that Galland used more than one aircraft during this time frame and these additional aircraft were thought to be 5819, 5966 is one in particular that was identified as 5819 in many publications. So differing camo was thought to be repaints...in my opinion.


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## Njaco (Nov 30, 2011)

Including one with the 2nd staffel devil badge he used iAugust.


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## Njaco (Feb 15, 2012)

Here are a few more. Not sure if I posted these already.

Also gathering some pics with Galland's Seibel and a Bf 109 with his emblem but unsure if ts his.


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## BikerBabe (Feb 16, 2012)

Hi Njaco, nice pics. Didn't have the last two, thanks for sharing. 

I found a few of Galland's Siebel Fh 104 at FalkeEins' blog:


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## Wayne Little (Feb 17, 2012)




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## Njaco (Feb 18, 2012)

BikerBabe said:


> Hi Njaco, nice pics. Didn't have the last two, thanks for sharing.
> 
> I found a few of Galland's Siebel Fh 104 at FalkeEins' blog:



Thought you would like those last two!


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## beaupower32 (Mar 16, 2012)

Apparently Galland drove a VW Bug also....



View attachment 196260


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## Airframes (Mar 17, 2012)

Love it! I want one !!


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## Wayne Little (Mar 17, 2012)




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## Crimea_River (Mar 17, 2012)

I like that!


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## Njaco (Mar 17, 2012)

ummm, I actually had one I painted up like that 30 years ago. Thought I was being original - apparently not!  I only had one headlight in the middle of the hood. Love the gas cap emblem!


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## Njaco (Jul 29, 2012)

Not sure if these have been posted before.....


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## Wayne Little (Jul 30, 2012)




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## Njaco (Feb 6, 2013)

A few more that I'm not sure have been posted..

.


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## Njaco (Feb 6, 2013)

and the man himself...

.


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## Njaco (Feb 6, 2013)

and a couple profiles... interesting, huh? 

.


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## T Bolt (Feb 6, 2013)

Cool Chris. Makes me wish I had another He-100 in the stash to paint it up like that.


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## Airframes (Feb 6, 2013)

Nice ones Chris.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 6, 2013)

Galland, certainly was the poster child fighter pilot of his day. He just plain looked like one.


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## Gnomey (Feb 7, 2013)

Good stuff Chris!


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## comanchepilot (Jan 8, 2014)

I'm resurrecting this thread because after looking at all of it [and thanking those for the great references] there is a great amount of interesting debate over Wr. 5819 and 5866 and to distinguish them absent the werk on the tail . . . look at posts 109 and 209 - and look at the photo of the startboard side of the aircraft . . . and you will see the Mickey Mouse emblem on the starboard side of what appears to be 5866 . . . . 

Yet, Galland told a few folks who asked that the Mickey Mouse was _*only *_ on the port side of the aircraft he flew . . . . this is obviously not the case . . . . the photos don't lie. 

Provides an interesting counterpoint to what was thought to be a clear answer to the question of whether a modeller should put the emblem on both sides - apparently only on both sides of 5866 . . .


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## bobbysocks (Jan 14, 2014)

i was going to say perhaps they reversed the negative...giving the illusion it was on the otherside. but the "S" in one of the picture would be facing the wrong direction.


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## comanchepilot (Feb 4, 2014)

And the canopy would be opening the 'wrong' way too! 



bobbysocks said:


> i was going to say perhaps they reversed the negative...giving the illusion it was on the otherside. but the "S" in one of the picture would be facing the wrong direction.


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## Wayne Little (Feb 5, 2014)

comanchepilot said:


> I'm resurrecting this thread because after looking at all of it [and thanking those for the great references] there is a great amount of interesting debate over Wr. 5819 and 5866 and to distinguish them absent the werk on the tail . . . look at posts 109 and 209 - and look at the photo of the startboard side of the aircraft . . . and you will see the Mickey Mouse emblem on the starboard side of what appears to be 5866 . . . .
> 
> Yet, Galland told a few folks who asked that the Mickey Mouse was _*only *_ on the port side of the aircraft he flew . . . . this is obviously not the case . . . . the photos don't lie.
> 
> Provides an interesting counterpoint to what was thought to be a clear answer to the question of whether a modeller should put the emblem on both sides - apparently only on both sides of 5866 . . .



W.Nr. 5819 had the Mickey Mouse emblem on both sides, W.Nr. 5966 did not have it at all on either side of the cockpit.


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## Njaco (May 16, 2014)

I believe I haven't posted these before......

.














...and one in his Fw 190.

.


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## Wurger (May 16, 2014)




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## Crimea_River (May 16, 2014)

Good stuff Chris.


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## Njaco (May 19, 2014)

a few more....

.


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## Wayne Little (May 20, 2014)

third and fourth images in post #217 are new to me Chris, where did you spot them?


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## Njaco (May 20, 2014)

Just did an internet search. At an online auction - not EBay, one of the others.


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## bobbysocks (May 20, 2014)

the 3rd and 4th pics in post 217....no fancy airport there huh? those are the kinds of pics i love...


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## vikingBerserker (May 20, 2014)

That is one dapper looking man.


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## Wayne Little (May 22, 2014)

Cheers Chris thanks, those pics show features not readily apparent in other shots of this machine and will be added when I build this Galland F series aircraft!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Njaco (May 23, 2014)

Wayne Little said:


> Cheers Chris thanks, those pics show features not readily apparent in other shots of this machine and will be added when I build this Galland F series aircraft!



The whole purpose of the thread!

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Wayne Little (May 25, 2014)

Njaco said:


> The whole purpose of the thread!


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