# Japanese Zero



## bent metal (Jun 17, 2014)

Hi, I am wondering if the Japanese Zero plane had an ejection mechanism? Not rocket, but maybe some kind of spring operated thing? I'm looking at models and pictures of the seat. Some of which actually refer to the seat as "ejection", while others say there was no ejection. ...The seat is mounted to four arms that would pivot up and down. If not for ejection, then for what purpose are those arms?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 17, 2014)

There was no type of ejection seat in the Zero. As a matter of fact some Zero pilots flew without parachutes.


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## GregP (Jun 17, 2014)

No ejection mechanism at all. 

Open the canopy and jump.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 17, 2014)

bent metal said:


> Hi, I am wondering if the Japanese Zero plane had an ejection mechanism? Not rocket, but maybe some kind of spring operated thing? I'm looking at models and pictures of the seat. Some of which actually refer to the seat as "ejection", while others say there was no ejection. ...The seat is mounted to four arms that would pivot up and down. If not for ejection, then for what purpose are those arms?


Seat adjustment is all...

For a detailed look at the componets and an explanation, look at Shinpachi's thread and detail of the A6M's seat construction: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/personal-gallery/mitsubishi-a6m8-cgi-project-31284-12.html


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## tyrodtom (Jun 17, 2014)

If you'll look at some pictures of Zeros taxying , you'll notice the pilot almost looks like he's standing up. 

It's for better forward vision over the nose, I think they only used it that way on the ground, or maybe for carrier approaches also.


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## fubar57 (Jun 17, 2014)

For launches as well...







Geo


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## Deleted member 63714 (Jun 17, 2014)

No ejection at all huh? See, that's another fact that passed by me throughout all my readings and films...


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## GrauGeist (Jun 17, 2014)

Japanese aircraft were not equipped with ejection seats. Even the Shinden didn't, instead requiring the pilot to discharge the explosive bolts to the propeller in the event of bailing out.

The Germans were better known for this feature, the first type equipped was the He280 jet (1940), then the He219 (1942) and others (He162, Do335 and so on)


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## ohogain (Jun 17, 2014)

The whole premise of the Zero was to make it as light as possible. They didn't put in any armor protection for the pilot, nor did they use self-sealing gas tanks. An ejection seat, even if available at the time the aircraft was designed, would have been considered an unnecessary weight increase.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 17, 2014)

StarScream said:


> No ejection at all huh? See, that's another fact that passed by me throughout all my readings and films...



Most WW2 aircraft had no ejection seats. Its not something unusual...


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## bent metal (Jun 17, 2014)

Thanks for the quick and clear response! I did look at the Spinpachi link. Not all of it, but a few pages, very nice. I'm only familiar with the seat, I see he has taken a few liberties in changing the design, as we have. Very cool stuff!


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## Deleted member 63714 (Jun 17, 2014)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Most WW2 aircraft had no ejection seats. Its not something unusual...



True... It's not something that I had ever given much thought to honestly. As obsessed with WWII history as I was/am it never occurred to me to question any book or film that showed pilots "bailing out" of the plane. Now I understand they meant "jumping" and parachuting down...


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## GrauGeist (Jun 17, 2014)

bent metal said:


> Thanks for the quick and clear response! I did look at the Spinpachi link. Not all of it, but a few pages, very nice. I'm only familiar with the seat, I see he has taken a few liberties in changing the design, as we have. Very cool stuff!


Shinpachi is building his A6M from factory blueprints...

He has quite an extensive library of aircraft plans.


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## tyrodtom (Jun 17, 2014)

If you were in a fighter that had a canopy that could be jettisoned, ( most did) and you still had enough control left to do so, a lot of pilots seemed to prefer to roll inverted, or begin a outside loop, pull their knees up to their chest, (or get their legs out from under the instrument panel) release the seat belt/shoulder harness, and drop out.

That was faster and got you better separation from the aircraft than climbing out on the wing and hoping you missed the tail surfaces as you dove off the back of the wing.


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## Shinpachi (Jun 17, 2014)

In my impression, IJN fighter pilots had no idea of bailing out at all unlike IJA airmen.

Thank for checking my works, bent metal and, GG, for introducing them!

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## bent metal (Jun 18, 2014)

Spinpachi, someone mentioned you are working from "factory" blueprints?!?! Does this include the seat? Or have you created that blueprint. I'm missing two details on the back of the seat. But I didn't see them on your computer drawings either (page 13 or so), not sure of the page. The seat I'm refering to is the earlier (I think?) seat. The smaller one without the big parachute bubble on the back. Looking from the back of this seat there is a large brace that runs side to side. On the right side it has seven holes, on the left it has one hole. In between these groups of holes was some kind of bracket. It was riveted in with eight, if I remember right, rivets. What was there. Also, in the center of the seat, up high on the back is a small half round, tapered bracket that is riveted on. At the crown of that bracket were two small rivets that had something aluminum attached. Long since smeared off. Can you tell me what was there as well?
And just out of curiosity. What things were hooked on to the back of the seat with all of these brackets?


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## zoomar (Jun 18, 2014)

Of course it shouldn't be suprising that the A6M didn't have an ejection seat. No fighter designed and entering service prior to 1944 did. If memory serves the first aircraft that featured an ejection seat was the experimental He 280 jet fighter...or maybe the He 217?


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## GrauGeist (Jun 18, 2014)

The first to have a modern ejection seat was the He280, and the first ejection seat successfully used to save a pilot's life during a catastrophic event, was again, the He280.

The first production aircraft to have an ejection seat was the He219.


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## Aozora (Jun 18, 2014)

tyrodtom said:


> If you were in a fighter that had a canopy that could be jettisoned, ( most did) and you still had enough control left to do so, a lot of pilots seemed to prefer to roll inverted, or begin a outside loop, pull their knees up to their chest, (or get their legs out from under the instrument panel) release the seat belt/shoulder harness, and drop out.
> 
> That was faster and got you better separation from the aircraft than climbing out on the wing and hoping you missed the tail surfaces as you dove off the back of the wing.



These are the officially mandated procedures for bail-out from the P-51D/K: it was recommended that the pilot crouch on the seat, then dive headfirst over the trailing edge of the right wing (although the left wing was also an option). Presumably this ensured that the pilot cleared the tail unit:


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## GregP (Jun 18, 2014)

There's another aspect of bailing out, and that is the direction the propeller turns.

You should always bail out in the direction the prop blades are turning to get you away from the horizontal tail.


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## bent metal (Jun 19, 2014)

I was told about this web site after this project was already pretty far along. I'm to the point now where I need to figure out this stuff soon. Once that back piece is in I don't want to take it off. I could, but would rather not. Hopefully what was done was acurate. We didn't have blueprints so we had to settle for a brief meeting with a real seat, and some measurements for build reference. The owner was kind enough to remove the seat from the Zero so we could get some dimensions. Nice guy.
Original blueprints would be awesome! I looked at what appeared to be a CAD drawing of the seat that Spinpachi made. Although it was close, it wasn't shaped the same as the seat I looked at. Which I know is correct and authentic. I realize things could have been added or subtracted from different variations of the plane. So I'm hoping to see a blueprint (as mentioned Spinpachi has) that will show the things missing from the seat I looked at. ...Does such a blueprint exist?


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## bent metal (Jun 19, 2014)

Lets see if I can post a picture?


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## bent metal (Jun 19, 2014)

Hey it worked! That's a picure of the seat back, looking from the back. A picture of the original seat, green in photo, and the copy we are doing. Notice the horizontal cross brace is not in yet. I need to know what went on that brace, in between the seven and single hole. And it looks like it was riveted in with nine, not eight rivets. As I stated earlier.


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## nuuumannn (Jun 19, 2014)

Hi Bent metal, are you certain there was anything that was fitted to that cross brace? Was it not a structural part of the seat? There are a lot of lightening holes in the seat, so might it be for strength? I've sat in the cockpit of a Zero (see my thread here http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/wa...carrier-fighter-detail-39255.html#post1078364) but at the time I didn't take a look behind it. I do know that the seat back folded forwards to enable access to the aft compartment, which held floatation devices, hydraulic reservoir, DF receiver, oxy bottles etc. There was no external door and through the rear of the cockpit was the only access to this area, so it's likely that what ever was mounted to the back of the seat, if anything in practise, would have been so as not to obstruct access to this area.


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## bent metal (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, I don't know. But there is an empty spot on that brace that is otherwise filled with lightening holes in a plane that was known for everything being as light as possible. I would think that if they were not to have anything in this area that they would have continued the existing holes all the way across. Probably should have belled them too, which they didn't. Looking at the original seat there are three rows of three, what look like (now filled but still visable) rivet holes. Consistant with the over-all look and rivet pattern of the rest of the seat. That is to say they look to be spaced properly. So I'm assuming there was something there. But I could be wrong. Also, if you look at the seat closely, they used avery bit of space. There are no other "blank" areas. There are either brackets, and where there are no brackets, they added a belled hole. Except for this one two inch by four inch space, off to one side of the seat. hmmm, had to of been something there, riveted to the seat. I think?


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## Shinpachi (Jun 19, 2014)

There was an engine starter handle, bent metal.

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## GrauGeist (Jun 19, 2014)

How cool is that?

I would have never guessed that this was where that was stored, great info, Shinpachi!!

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## nuuumannn (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, that's settled it. Like Dave said, Shinpachi. Having seen the whole thing in Shinpachi's drawing, it's plainly evident what you are talking about, Bent metal. Good luck with your work; it sounds fascinating and look forward to more results. Post more pictures, too. I for one would like to see more.

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## Koopernic (Jun 20, 2014)

Ejection seats were in most cases standard on German prototypes undergoing tests. Hans-Joachim Pancherz ejected from a Ju 290 undergoing dive and flutter tests.

The Heinkel company remained in charge of ejection seat development throughout the war. The rocket sled they developed to test them was shipped from Rostok on the Baltic coast to the USA post war where it showed up in numerous movies.

Production types which had ejection seats were the He 219, He 162 and arguably Dornier Do 335. The Ta 154 would have had an ejection seats.

Most of these seats used a bottle of compressed air (Do 335, He 219) but this was somewhat heavy and due to potential air leakage required periodic checks and possible refills. The He 162 received a pyrotechnic seat, which solved a weight and maintenance problem.

These seats were not very automated. One would have to manually eject the canopy perhaps with assistance of pyrotechnics. You would then have to put your feet in stirrups, then put both hands on armrests to relieve the weight on your spine from at least the weight of your arms and fire the seat. On the Do 335 one should also fire explosive bolts to detach the propeller blades and upper vertical fin to help achieve clearance. (When belly landing one could detach the lower vertical fin)

In modern seats straps pull your feat into the stirrups a second before ejection. In the British method one pulls a blind over the face both to relieve arm weight somewhat but also to force the spine into correct alignment. There is still argument over whether the blind method or the arm rest method is better.

Weight is one reason the compressed air types didn't become standard on the Fw 190 despite the complaint of the test pilots, like the P-51 slipstream tended to push the pilot into his seat. The Fw 190 featured explosive ejection to ensure that at least the canopy came of in a high speed slipstream. The Me 109 canopy hinged but in event of an emergency detached.

I suspect the lightweight pyrotechnical type used on the He 162 would have made it onto most other Luftwaffe aircraft. The He 162 and Do 335 needed ejection seats due to their engine configuration. The He 219 had a tricycle landing gear and so the propellers were actually behind the crew cabin; hence without ejection seats one would have to feather the props first. 

Luftwaffe pilots tended to roll their aircraft upside down and fall out. Alternatively they would unbuckle, sit on the canopy and kick the joystick; this would buck them forward and up clear of the tail fin. Don't know who tried that first but hats of too him.


Given the high skill level of Japanese naval pilots and the amount of time invested in training them they would have done well to invest heavily in search and rescue, parachutes etc. 

I believe there were a range of psychological reasons for not investing in parachutes: some motivational, some not wanting to suffer in the ocean perhaps.


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## bent metal (Jun 20, 2014)

Thank you Spinachi! I'd like to get a little further into this detail. The blueprint you posted is a little confusing. But I think I understand most of it. It is, of course backwards, or looking at the back through the front. Knowing that, I made some circles to point out some areas of question.
The red circle is a "what is this, what does it look like?" I don't know what these are.
The blue circle is "something missing here." I do know what these are and have them already.
The blue with red circle is this drawing is missing a braket that has a bracket on it. I have one of these but not the other.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 20, 2014)

Koopernic said:


> I believe there were a range of psychological reasons for not investing in parachutes: some motivational, some not wanting to suffer in the ocean perhaps.



From Saburo Sakai "Samurari" (Martin Caidin)

_"In 1942, none of our fighter planes carried pilot armor, nor did the Zeros have self-sealing fuel tanks, as did the American planes. As the enemy pilots soon discovered, a burst of their 50-caliber bullets into the fuel tanks of a Zero caused it to explode violently in flames. Despite this, in those days not one of our pilots flew with parachutes. This has been misinterpreted in the West as proof that our leaders were disdainful of our lives, that all Japanese pilots were expendable and regarded as pawns rather than human beings. This was far from the truth. Every man was assigned a parachute; the decision to fly without them was our own and not the result of orders from higher headquarters. Actually, we were urged, although not ordered, to wear the parachutes in combat. At some fields the base commander insisted that chutes be worn, and those men had no choice but to place the bulky packs in their planes. Often, however, they never fastened the straps, and used the chutes only as seat cushions.

We had little use for these parachutes, for the only purpose they served for us was to hamstring our cockpit movements in a battle. It was difficult to move our arms and legs when encumbered by chute straps. There was another, and equally compelling, reason for not carrying the chutes into combat. The majority of our battles were fought with enemy fighters over their own fields. It was out of the question to bail out over enemy territory, for such a move meant a willingness to be captured, and nowhere in the Japanese military code or in the traditional Bushido (Samurai code) could one find the distasteful words “Prisoner of War.” There were no prisoners. A man who did not return from combat was dead. No fighter pilot of any courage would ever permit himself to be captured by the enemy. It was completely unthinkable ..."_

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## bent metal (Jun 20, 2014)

Notice the nine holes on the bracket. On the blank area. It must have had some kind of mounting bracket there for the starter switch. That's what I need, what did that bracket look like? I don't need the whole assembly, just the bracket that mounted there. And the one up top with the red and blue circle together.

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## bent metal (Jun 20, 2014)

This is the upper tubing clip I don't have. Any more info on this?


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## Shinpachi (Jun 20, 2014)

The early version of A6Ms Zero fighter seat came from A5M Claude. There was an oil injection pump handle on the top-right of the seat for the A5Ms but was omitted for the A6Ms as no need.

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## bent metal (Jun 21, 2014)

Awesome Spinpachi !!! Are these drawings with some of your own interpretation? Notice one of the pictures I posted earlier had one of those brackets pictured. In the picture is both my copy and the original (in green). Where it shows the leather strap riveted to this bracket in your picture, the original and our copy show a small wire deally where it looked like a strap would attach. I assumed because it was so small that it was a canvas type, not leather strap? Your drawing does solve another mystery for me as well!!! That original wire deally is shaped like a triangle, couldn't figure out why. Now I see, the triangle tips the strap just enough to make it line up with the other attachment point. Presumably with a similar end and wire deally? ...What do you think?


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## bent metal (Jun 21, 2014)

Do you have dimensions on those coat hanger lookin' things? I'm diggin' those. I need to make some. Do you have the details on the bracket that would be the upper left end of the strap without anything covering it?
Anything I can help you with?


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## GrauGeist (Jun 21, 2014)

Those two triangular shaped "ring" devices (one on each side) were the anchors for the pilot's lap belt.

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## drgondog (Jun 23, 2014)

GregP said:


> There's another aspect of bailing out, and that is the direction the propeller turns.
> 
> You should always bail out in the direction the prop blades are turning to get you away from the horizontal tail.



That would be item 5 in the P-51 Bail out procedure


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## nuuumannn (Jun 23, 2014)

> This is the upper tubing clip I don't have. Any more info on this?



Great resource Shinpachi. If I were to hazard a guess - and that's what this is, based on logic, it could be a simple single 'C' shaped piece of metal with some elasticity, which holds the bracket in place, but also allows it to be removed with enough force. Such brackets are commonplace for the storage of items in aviation.


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## bent metal (Jun 24, 2014)

nuuumannn said:


> Great resource Shinpachi. If I were to hazard a guess - and that's what this is, based on logic, it could be a simple single 'C' shaped piece of metal with some elasticity, which holds the bracket in place, but also allows it to be removed with enough force. Such brackets are commonplace for the storage of items in aviation.


I think your right. Like a spring clip. We will probably leave this off. Just because it would be a sharp item sticking out for no reason. Just something for someone to cut themselves on.


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## bent metal (Jun 24, 2014)

Two seats. Would like to get as much of these details worked out as soon as possible.


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## bent metal (Jun 25, 2014)

Anyone? ...
I don't think we are going to guess as to what was in the 'blank' area of that cross brace. I understand it was a bracket, but without a pretty good idea of how it looked, probably just leave it blank if nobody has a clear idea of what was under the black tubing, in this area. I don't want to guess, and have something on there that doesn't look right. Might be better to leave it blank.


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## Shinpachi (Jun 25, 2014)

I think you had better leave it blank.
The engine starter handle was an influence of the A5Ms and not necessarily essential for the A6Ms in operation.


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## GregP (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi Drgondog,

A surprising number of people simply go out the left side, probably due to mostly entering on the left side. Most people in combat did from asking a few questions at the monthly talks at the Museum. Perhaps I only asked those who went out the left side adn that is not a general rule.

I was at the Incredible Universe Race in Phoenix, AZ when Kevin Eldrige caught fire in bailed out. He went out the left side and hit the horizontal tail and broke a few bones. Little did I realize that later in life I would meet him and become friends via the Planes of Fame. I asked him why he didn't go out the right side since the propwash would be moving downward and he said he din;t even think about it, just went out the left. He did allow that if there was ever a next time, he'd try the side with the downward turning blades since he already knows how much hitting a part of the plane hurts.

Steve Hinton rode his planes down since they weren't on fire and burning brightly. Kevin's Super Corsair didn't explode, but I can only wonder why after seeing the fire. Nice looking work!


Hey Bent Metal,

I was under the impression the seats leaned back a bit. I'll look at that next time I get to Chino ... probably Saturday.


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## BiffF15 (Jun 26, 2014)

Greg,
It may lean back due to the aircraft sitting nose high.
Cheers,
Biff


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## GregP (Jun 26, 2014)

Might be so. The drawings in Shinpachi's post don't seem to be straight up, but maybe it's perspective.


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## parsifal (Jun 27, 2014)

wow guys, you are allover this like Sh*te on a stick

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## GrauGeist (Jun 27, 2014)

The seat as built has a slight angle to the rear along the radius until it reaches either side, which is true vertical. You can see the seat back's slight ioffset along the radius in Shinpachi's blueprint.

Once the seat is mounted, it appears to be slightly reclined. I am not sure if the height adjustment causes that or if the seat mount allows for that adjustment.


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## bent metal (Jun 27, 2014)

I'm surprised you guys noticed the lean back in the seat! Several of you have good points. Yes they did lean back, but very slightly. The blueprint drawing looks right to me. The CGI drawing is not, most noticably the lumbar is way too pronounced. The form is correct but the shape is completely wrong. The sides too. It's similar to, but different than the real seat. Let me clarify some things. We are not trying to make an exact copy, so we have taken some liberties. In an effort to make the seat look like a Zero seat but still be comfortable. Some one mentioned our seat looks too straight up. I agree, but it's actually leaned back (in relation to it's floor/bottom) more than the original. For comforts sake. And! It still wasn't comfortable but if it leaned back any more we were afraid of losing the "look", so we leaned the seat mount back. The boss sat in the seat on a bench, leaned back till it felt right, I marked it and that's why it leans where it does now. About 25 or 30 degrees, a lot!
I knew I'd get some pretty stern critiques from you guys that know. I admitedly do not. But that's why we came here, to get some answers. So, with that in mind, I hope we can get some answers to our questions, I'd love to know what was right and wrong even though we are not necessarily going to make our seat that way. For example, we might never know what was on that cross brace in the blank spot, but the seat belt coat hangers, didn't know about those, gotta' have um'.
What I'm trying to say is, please give your input. Possitive or negative, just a comment, or more information, I'd like to hear it all. Hope you are diggin' the project, it has been very interesting for us.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 27, 2014)

No problems here!

You're doing a heck of a job with those seats and as far as the "blank" area goes, remember these seats were used in the earlier A5M and had different equipment attached that were no longer nessecary in the A6M series.

This would, for example, be like Chevy using the bucket seats from the '67 Nova SS for the '69 Corvair Monza 900 or Ford using the same lower control arms for the Mustang, Falcon and Maverick and so on.


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## bent metal (Jun 27, 2014)

Great point! I guess the thing that bothered me was that there were holes for rivets. As if something was there, now gone. The blank area got my attention, but the rivet holes made me think that something was there at one time.


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## bent metal (Jun 27, 2014)

Oh, one more thing. If nothing was in that blank area, why have the attatchement point for the other end of the strap?


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## GrauGeist (Jun 27, 2014)

Probably the best thing to try, is getting a photograph of the actual seat in one of the current A6Ms, and see how the starter crank handle is secured between the two brackets. The leather retaining strap that secured the starter crank to the back of the seat shared the three outboard holes of each bracket.

Perhaps Greg can get a photo of the back of the seat of the A6M they have there at the Planes of Fame in Chino for additional detail.

As far as unused holes in a production piece, the afore-mentioned lower control arm Ford made for the Falcon/Comet/Mustang/Maverick contained a cluster of four 5/16" holes and then a single 3/8" hole outboard, located before the balljoint. This allowed the control arm to be used on the right or left side, only two of the four holes being used for that particular side's radius rod. Same goes for the 3/8" hole, which was there in case the customer ordered the optional anti-sway bar...otherwise it was not used.


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## Shinpachi (Jun 27, 2014)

What I can help is not much.
Back tilt is approx. 10 degrees when installed in the cockpit.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 27, 2014)

Just as I thought, the seat's mount did recline the seat to a certain degree.


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## bent metal (Jun 28, 2014)

That drawing with the 10degrees "looks" about right. I think the four arms were the same length. Almost have to be, or the seat would tip as it was raised and lowered. Also, about half as long as in that picture. But that doesn't matter, so if the arms are the same length, we could look at the blue print with the seat floor at flat and level and measure the difference between the attachment points on the back/side and bottom of the seat. Assuming the bulkhead that the arms are attached is straight up vertical, not leaning, and all of the arms are the same length. The difference in the attachement points is going to give the angle. So really those attachement points should be straight over top of each other in the above "10degree" drawing. Which they are not, so if everything is how I'm assuming it is, bulkhead perpendicular to the floor, and the arms all the same length....Then the seat would lean back a few more degrees, till those attachment points were lined up. ...Right?


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## bent metal (Jun 28, 2014)

What about the color. I've been looking around here and there seems to not be a difinate answer. But I know I'm ignorant. Basically two different colors that could have been used. I like the color that is in the Spinachi drawings best. Is that close to the darker of the two colors that the Zero used? I have seen the seat bottom that was from a Zero crashed in Russia. I'm guessing an early production model. Because of the weaker structure where the seats usually break. Anyhow, the color, which is the lighter of the two colors, not diggin' it. I was hoping for a darker green.

Was there an early or late color of green? Any rhyme or reason to it all?


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## Shinpachi (Jun 28, 2014)

I don't know why but the arm lengths are not same as if the designer had not wanted smoother up and down.
I think the Zero bottom seat in Russia came from a A6M2 deployed in Shumshu of the Kuril Islands.

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## GregP (Jun 28, 2014)

Met Bent Metal at the museum today and we pulled out the seat for our A6M5 Model 52. It looks like a straight-up seat as in the drawing, but is leaned back a bit by way of seat mounts.

He got pics.


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## Shinpachi (Jun 29, 2014)

Nice aid, Greg.


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## bent metal (Jun 29, 2014)

What is that?


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## bent metal (Jun 29, 2014)

This is all very confusing.
How does this "lifting deally" do anything? It's simply going to go slack when the handle is raised. I guess it could limit downward travel. But that's all it's going to do.


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## BiffF15 (Jun 29, 2014)

Bent,
I wondered that as well, thanks for asking. At first I thought it was some sort of "shock damping" device (the bungee), but then I noticed the seat lift device (sort of looks like a parking brake). The seat lift would prevent the bungee from damping, and it was my assumption then that it might act as a spring to help the pilot "raise" the seat while he was in it. All guess work on my part.
Cheers,
Biff


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## GregP (Jun 29, 2014)

Can't say from the drawing and pic shown, and I'd have to wait for our Zero to be reassenbled to say for sure, and I think Bent Metal needs the info before that time. When we looked at the seat, it was just that ... a seat. The cockpit has been completely disassembled and is completely deviod of any hardware.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 29, 2014)

As the lever is raised, this allows the seat to elevate, which gave the pilot the ability to look over the cowl during takeoff or landing. When the lever is pushed down, the bungee cord elongates, allowing the seat to lower.

There was no forward adjustment to the seat, the rudder pedals were adjustable to accomodate the pilot.

Clever idea and certainly weight saving opposed to a more ellaborate metal adjustment system.


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## bent metal (Jun 29, 2014)

If you wanted to save weight don't have anything there at all. ...IMO That seat weighs nearly nothing, if the pilot wanted to raise up or go down couldn't he just push off the floor a little bit with his feet? He basically has to only lift his weight, and he has the handle to help. 
hmm? Guess that's just my opinion, which doesn't matter. If that's the way they were, that's the way they were. Now that you say it was a bungy, not just a cable, I understand.
Thank you.

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## bent metal (Jun 29, 2014)

Hi GregP,
Thank you very much for taking the time to talk with me and share some of your knowledge. It was all very interesting, and helpful for sure. Thank you very much! Look forward to talking with you again in the near future. We'll go to Flo's again, I'm buying.

You mentioned the pictures of the seat. I don't want to over step my boundries here. My boss is the one who had an agreement with Steve that allowed us to even get started on making this Zero seat. I'm sorta' doing this on my own in an effort to fill in the blanks where some of the original seat was missing brackets, etc. I'm not sure if it's ok with my boss or Steve to post pictures. Not that it's a big secret, since Spinpachi has what looks to me to be exact blueprints that are actually more complete than the original seat in it's current state. But it's definately Steve's decision to make. I'd like to respect that, as I'm sure you do as well. If you could, ask him the next time you see him. Can I post pictures?


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## GrauGeist (Jun 29, 2014)

The bungee system was reliable, held the seat in place during landings, during combat and in rough weather yet allowed the seat's height to be adjusted by simply moving the lever.

Lightweight and very simple.

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## Shinpachi (Jun 29, 2014)

bent metal said:


> What is that?
> View attachment 266120



No explanation but I guess it a safety wire to prevent the seat from falling in case the lock broken.
The rubber band of "lifting deally" is not a shock absorber but a lifting aid for the pilot.
Diameter 13mm x Length 1000mm.


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## GregP (Jun 29, 2014)

Hi Bent Metal,

Nice meeting you and walking around and having lunch. I'll ask Steve ... it IS his decision. 

What is your boss's name? Maybe PM me so I can ask inteligently.

Look forward to seing you again.

Best regards, - Greg


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## Shinpachi (Jul 1, 2014)

There seems nothing on the back cross bracket of the seat but a square leather patch riveted (9 rivets) holding a vertical ring.

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## nuuumannn (Jul 2, 2014)

> yet allowed the seat's height to be adjusted by simply moving the lever.



Yep, makes sense, Dave. Still in use on aircraft seats today. When there's weight on the seat, i.e. the pilot's &rse, the bungee is under tension and the pan won't move. In order to adjust the pan up or down, the pilot lifts his &rse and the tension is released, which enables the seat pan to move. At least, that's what it looks like.


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## bent metal (Jul 3, 2014)

Something like this? The light green piece being an "L" bracket of steel. The wire loop that is traingular is what the other end looks like.
View attachment missing bracket.bmp


Needed to reattach my beautiful drawing. I think Spinpachi wants to make a copy to frame and hang on the wall in his living room.


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## Shinpachi (Jul 3, 2014)

Nice drawing, bent metal! 

Rational or irrational, seeing the photo as it is, that part looks like this to me.
I have borrowed your triangular loop 
Thanks!

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## bent metal (Jul 4, 2014)

Ha, I think your making fun of my drawing? Haha. That's ok, I did it on "paint".  Back to the bracket. I saw your earlier drawing with the starter thing strapped to the back of the seat. That's where I got the metal "L" bracket from. Which makes sence. Because if you didn't have that "L", when you sinched down the strap the started thing would just slide toward the center of the seat, not snug up to the seat back.


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## bent metal (Jul 4, 2014)

Looking back at your blueprint from on this thread. The one with the pink line indicating where the starter thing goes. We know what the lower right attachement bracket looks like (reversed in the blueprint). The drawing shows a double line on that lower bracket. Which, I think, is showing the bracket is raised off of the surface. We know that is true, and I think the drawing is trying to illustrate that. If we look at the missing bracket it also has that double vertical line on both sides of the bracket. As if there is come kind of U-shaped craddle? Maybe with leather inside the "U". ...hmm? The picture in the book. Can you see that better than what we can see on the computer?
Oh, and the holes in the cross brace are not belled. Just a hole.
Do you have dimensions on the coat hanger, seat belt dealies?


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## Shinpachi (Jul 4, 2014)

If I had been the designer of the seat at that time, I would also have had better idea to hold the starter crank handle firmly like you suggested in above.

I have seen the photo #71 to understand as it is and I think my understanding may be reasonable at the moment because you could have found anything there beside the 9 holes if there had been any metal parts attached. At least, the handle can be held without a L or U-shaped metal part as the center of the handle hits the seat cross bracket when tightened with the belt.

I have no further detailed data about the seat at the moment but would like to post again if any found.


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## bent metal (Jul 4, 2014)

Juuust a little bit of the seat.

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmUseKNrh6Q_


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## Shinpachi (Jul 5, 2014)

Ground crew are to enter into the rear fuselage for maintenance through the left back side of the seat.
Less prong would be favorable for them to prevent the cloths or skin from scratching.

Let's think why there are 9 rivet holes and why central 3 are shifted to the left when 6 are enough to support if there were any metal cradle as you imagine.

In addition,
I have not found such rivet holes in Mitsubishi Zeros but Nakajima's as if a relic of the past. 
Mitsubishi mainly used the cloth seat belts while Nakajima favored the leather ones.

This will be enough.
Good luck and nice day, bent metal.


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## bent metal (Jul 5, 2014)

Ok, I've watched that above video about ten times. I think that seat is a re-make. On the upper seat back there is basically four holes on the right (as your looking from the back), and three on the left. Of the four holes, the one to the top center of the seat should be about a half inch smaller in diameter. It's not, it's the same as all of the surrounding belled holes. Also, refering to the four hole cluster, the top right hole looks to be too far out away from the center of the seat. The wired edge is a little too rounded too. It should be more angular. ...Nice seat, looks close, but not the way they were. ...Scratch that one as a seat referance.
You can refer back to page 3 for Spinpachi's blue print. Refer to 1:30 in on the video for comparison of the holes, 3:19 for the wired edge.


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## VBF-13 (Jul 5, 2014)

parsifal said:


> wow guys, you are allover this like Sh*te on a stick


I'm still trying to figure out what kind of glue they're using...

OK, enough of that, here's a _real_ naive question. If anybody could track down any of these specifications, it would be the manufacturer, right? So, that's the blind alley, they were already tried?


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## evangilder (Jul 6, 2014)

bent metal said:


> Ok, I've watched that above video about ten times. I think that seat is a re-make. On the upper seat back there is basically four holes on the right (as your looking from the back), and three on the left. Of the four holes, the one to the top center of the seat should be about a half inch smaller in diameter. It's not, it's the same as all of the surrounding belled holes. Also, refering to the four hole cluster, the top right hole looks to be too far out away from the center of the seat. The wired edge is a little too rounded too. It should be more angular. ...Nice seat, looks close, but not the way they were. ...Scratch that one as a seat referance.
> You can refer back to page 3 for Spinpachi's blue print. Refer to 1:30 in on the video for comparison of the holes, 3:19 for the wired edge.



Keep in mind that the Zero in that video is one that was "restored" using parts from multiple Zeros in Russia. While it is a Zero (A6M3 Model 22 on the data plate), there are several peculiarities of this one because of it's Frankenstein-esque restoration. Not to take anything away from it, I have worked with and on it a few times over the years. It's still a rare aircraft that flies regularly. But I think it is not a good example of historical accuracy.

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## GrauGeist (Jul 6, 2014)

There will also be be differences between the early models and later models, as has been mentioned before, plus the seat design was carried over from the A5M, so there were unpopulated rivet holes from equipment the A5M used that the A6M did not in the earlier versions.

Here is a illustration of the A5M's cockpit, note the seat and it's mounting?

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## bent metal (Jul 6, 2014)

VBF-13 said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what kind of glue they're using...Glue? What? Don't sniff the glue ...
> 
> OK, enough of that, here's a _real_ naive question. If anybody could track down any of these specifications, it would be the manufacturer, right? So, that's blind alley, they were already tried?


I have to agree. That was _naive_.


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## nuuumannn (Jul 7, 2014)

> There will also be be differences between the early models and later models, as has been mentioned before, plus the seat design was carried over from the A5M, so there were unpopulated rivet holes from equipment the A5M used that the A6M did not in the earlier versions.



Have to agree with Eric and Dave, the Commemmorative Air Force Zero, which I examined at Woodbourne when it was in this country is a bit of a Frankenstein, note the Russian equipment in the cockpit in my thread, so it's not going to be entirely accurate. Also, like Dave suggested, often aircraft manufacturers leave rivet and fastener holes and fittings over from previous types and different marks of the same aircraft from production, rather than having them removed on the production line if they are redundant. paerticularly if it is a trivial matter that won't affect weight or performance, but might affect production timelines by adding to existing workloads.


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## Shinpachi (Jul 7, 2014)

Nice idea of referring to the A5M cockpit, GG 
When I checked several photos of a A5M which was sunk with a cargo ship Fujikawa Maru in Truk circa 1944, I was unable to find any projected parts on the cross bracket.
So, my updated image will be like this at the moment.

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## bent metal (Jul 7, 2014)

spinpachi, hope you don't mind a minor correction. Your CGI drawings are fantastic! ...The bottom of the seat, where it meets the seat bottom, back, and side. That corner area, has only one flange. Which is the seat bottom itself folding 90 degrees to meet the side. You have it draw as if the panel floor is doubled or something? It is only one panel, so it would have only one flange. Which in turn would move your outside rivet line out about a half inch.
If you don't understand what I'm trying to say, I could make one of my super detailed and realistic "paint" drawings.


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## bent metal (Jul 7, 2014)

Shinpachi said:


> No explanation but I guess it a safety wire to prevent the seat from falling in case the lock broken.
> The rubber band of "lifting deally" is not a shock absorber but a lifting aid for the pilot.
> Diameter 13mm x Length 1000mm.



This looks like it's connected to the loop bracket that is riveted to the seat back main bracket. Until now, I didn't have any idea what would go into that blind hole. The tapered upper loop bracket still has no purpose, other than to hold a spring clip for some kind of tubing. ...I know we are getting really, really, far into the details here. It's probably exhausting for some people. But I think we almost have all the answers.


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## Shinpachi (Jul 7, 2014)

Yes, your paint drawings would be more helpful for me to understand better, bent metal. Thanks.
The safety wire I guess might have been ended as merely a plan as I have not confirmed actual one.
Thanks.


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## bent metal (Jul 8, 2014)

Compare this picture with the CGI above, with four seat backs. 
The red arrow is how it should be. The floor attaches to the side via it's flange.
The red circle shows where the extra flange is on your drawing.[


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## Shinpachi (Jul 8, 2014)

I have just confirmed my extra flange design was wrong as it extended upward.
Thanks for your kind advice, bent metal. It's a gem.

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## bent metal (Jul 9, 2014)

GregP, Is it alright with Steve if we post pictures to go along with the blueprint, and CGI drawings?


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## GregP (Jul 9, 2014)

I haven't forgotten, Bent Metal. He hasn't been there since that day when I went by. I'll probably be in to the museum tomorrow, and I'll ask if he is there.

The Horsemen flew a show in Michigan, they have another in Anchorage at Artic Thunder, and then Steve and company head for the Duxford in the UK.

So, whenever he comes home and I'm there at the same time, I'll ask.


Hi Bent Metal,

Steve is still in Duxford and I asked the Museum Generla Manager. He ask me not to post any pics of the seat. It's not something the average museum visitor would NOT (edit ... not get to see) get to see, and falls under the "special permission" area. It's OK for me to have shown you the seat individually, but not to post it publically.


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## bent metal (Jul 16, 2014)

Shinpachi said:


> I have just confirmed my extra flange design was wrong as it extended upward.
> Thanks for your kind advice, bent metal. It's a gem.



Ok, that's correct. But the flange is wrong as it extended upward, (?). There is no flange there. Extending or not, no flange there. Those inboard brackets do not attatch to a flange. The are riveted to the bottom of the seat, then two tubed rivets connect them to their outboard brackets.

Other than that. I agree with about 90% of your CGI. It looks very, very, close.

I'm thinking that I have collected all of the information that is available on these seats and ajoining junk that connects to it. Most bothersome is the leather strap piece that is riveted on the back. Although I can't dispute the drawing that Spinpachi made. It's as good of a conclusion as any, ...But I'm not diggin' it. I don't think we're going to go with that. No disrespect Spinpachi, your drawing is probably right. I'm just not feeling the design. Maybe go with Spinpachi's first answer, "leave it blank"? Which a few of you agreed to as well.

Anyone else have any comments? Suggestions? Speak now or forever hold your peace. I need to wrap this thing up today or tomorrow.

Thanks!


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## bent metal (Jul 17, 2014)

Alright, I think everyone has spoken now. So I voted for leaving the mystery bracket area blank. But the boss over ruled me and we came up with this bracket that will hold a tool.


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## bent metal (Jul 17, 2014)

Spinpachi, I'm looking at your blueprint of the seat. In the drawing it shows the seat back and the belt. Pointing to the belt is a number one with a circle around it and some writing underneath that. Can you tell me what that writing says? ...Please.


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## bent metal (Jul 25, 2014)

Alright,...where was I? So everyone has contributed all they want, and you guys have helped tremendously! THANK YOU ALL for helping on our little project. Your efforts are greatly appreciated!  Amazing how much information about this one little seat is out there. We have got the seat almost finished. Still need to make the seat belt square things, the "GI JOE" coat hangers, and attach the ID tags. But that's about it. I'm pushing to leave them in an oiled natural finish. But I think the boss is going to paint them green. ...I hope not, but I know too that I have a tendency to want to leave everything bare metal. lol 
The only pictures I can post are going to be whatever we have made. So if you want to compare our seat to the real deal you will have to settle for the blueprint, and the CGI from Spinpachi. Which are both excellent anyway.

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## bent metal (Jul 25, 2014)

This bracket that the miniature coat hangers attach to should have a double bend, and the rivet heads should look like the rest surrounding the bracket. All through from the same side, all heads the same size, and round. Not pan, as we did on the one we built.
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/aviation/266362d1404419865-japanese-zero-plan74.jpg


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## GregP (Jul 25, 2014)

Thanks for posting, Bent Metal. It looks like you did a great job!

Want to come volunteer to do it in warbirds? I'll take you any day!


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## bent metal (Jul 25, 2014)

Well thank you GregP, it certainly was not all me. The work was a team effort for sure, and the research here was all of you guys with so much detailed information that it's amazing. I'll post pictures as we go along, if there is any interest?

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## GregP (Jul 25, 2014)

Does a bear crap in the woods?

How do you get 7 pages of replies if there is no interest?

You need a beer and cheeseburger to wake you up!

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## bent metal (Jul 27, 2014)

Ha GregP. There does seem to be a good bunch of views on this thread. I was hoping for some comments, suggestions, whatever.
How far is Yokohama from Osaka?


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## nuuumannn (Jul 28, 2014)

Great work Bent Metal, great skin bashing skills by you and your team.


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## bent metal (Aug 1, 2014)

Thanks, glad your liking it. Here are the square seat belt brackets. Still needs the coat hangers and ID tags. Maybe something more with the seat mounts.


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## bent metal (Aug 1, 2014)

In case your wondering. The Spinpachi blueprint called for these to be at a 12 degree angle. So that's what I did. Speaking of Spinpachi, ...you still out there? How far are you from Yokohama?
A lot of work into those little seat belt brackets. Not perfect, but I think they're pretty good.

Any dimensions on the coat hanger? Details of the retaining pin that holds it? I could wing it. But I'd rather have some dimensions to work from.


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## bent metal (Aug 7, 2014)

Coat hangers??? Any dimensions on coat hangers?

Spinpachi, looks like you are 240 miles from Yokohama? Would it be a big deal for you to travel to Yokohama? If your interested, you could see the seats you have helped create.


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## bent metal (Aug 8, 2014)

Has everyone lost interest in this project? Just a few more details and we are done.
The ID tag, both seats. Pass. side is "flipped/reversed" so that the tag can be seen when the door is opened:


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## bent metal (Aug 8, 2014)

And the BEAST. ....Love it or hate it? I'd like to hear what you think.

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## tyrodtom (Aug 8, 2014)

If you're going to all that trouble to make authentic Mitsubishi Zero seats for it, and a WW2 Japanese national flag on it , why not put a Japanese motor in it ??

They make V8s too .

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## GrauGeist (Aug 8, 2014)

tyrodtom said:


> If you're going to all that trouble to make authentic Mitsubishi Zero seats for it, and a WW2 Japanese national flag on it , why not put a Japanese motor in it ??
> 
> They make V8s too .


Would be interesting to see. Perhaps a Toyota or Honda F1 engine? 

As far as interest goes, Bent-Metal, people make the rounds, so sometimes a thread may sit idle for a day or so...not to worry, we're still here!

As far as the measurements on the seatbelt anchor "rings" are concerned, you may have to make an educated guess based on scale comparisons from the images posted previously in this thread.

And you've done a hell of a job on those seats! Your shop should consider making more of them available to cockpit builders and aviation entheusiasts.

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## Bad-Karma (Aug 8, 2014)

bent metal said:


> And the BEAST. ....Love it or hate it? I'd like to hear what you think.
> View attachment 269146



Love it! Thumbs up from a fellow gear head.


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## tyrodtom (Aug 8, 2014)

I guess since that's a sort of retro-rod, nothing Japanese from that era would do.

Are those Kinmont front brakes ?

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## GrauGeist (Aug 8, 2014)

tyrodtom said:


> I guess since that's a sort of retro-rod, nothing Japanese from that era would do.


You could always look for the air-cooled V-8 used in the IJA armored cars or the Kawasaki Ha-9 V12 engine used in their tanks!

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## Shinpachi (Aug 8, 2014)

You are doing good job, bent metal 
But I have nothing to advise you any more as I told you everything I knew.
Also, I don't cooperate with any commercial activities for my hobby.

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## bent metal (Aug 8, 2014)

Thank you very much guys!!! Glad to hear all of the encouragement, and the ideas, for sure!

I think it's too late to change the motor. We are also trying not to get too "thyme ish" in the car. If you know what I mean. Just cool Japanese and American stuff combined. Also, I think the rising sun is going to have to go. Apparently it's offensive in Japan. Sorta' like a Confederate flag is in America? We didn't realize the meaning that it has for some Japanese people. So it's going to go. If anyone has some ideas that would fit the car for an air cleaner, I'd love to hear it. I guess the planes just had intakes, no filter type 'air cleaners', right? But something that looks Japanese or American fighter plane-ish from WW-2 would be cool.
GrauGeist, I almost bought a Hudson Invader motor once. Still have my eye on it. But never could justify it's purchase. But I like where you are going with that! 
Tyrodtom, Those are Paul's. He is making them now and they are awesome. PM me if you want to talk to him.
Spinpachi, Thank you very much for all of your help. The blueprints, and your CGI has been priceless. ..Extremely helpful. I don't understand you saying you don't want to help any further. Perhaps I am missing something in translation there? I don't know. But I'm sure you have more to offer. I know I have information that would clarify some of the details in your CGIs. I gave you some already, but I didn't want to be too critical of your already fantastic work. Having held a real seat in my hands, I can tell you that there are some differences in not only the seat we did, but your CGI drawings as well, and in different aspects from each of us. I'm sure Greg has noticed. That's ok, I think about 90% of the experts would find them both satisfactory. You never answered me about Yokohama. This car will be in Yokohama in four months. On Dec. 7th. Yes Pearl Harbor Day. Then it will go to it's new home, near Osaka. ...I thought you might like to see it. ...As a hobbyist. 

Also, what does "give me bacon" mean?


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## GregP (Aug 8, 2014)

Is that car going to Japan?


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## GrauGeist (Aug 8, 2014)

Bent-Metal, years ago, I stabbed a GM 702 (702.9 cid) V-12 into a '68 Chevelle...fit like a charm (as long as a L-6, as wide as a BB V-8) and was a real kick in the drawers to cruise around and pop the hood at shows.
I've been in the automotive industry for ages, and have done many fun and unique projects, so I'm all for stuffing a unique engine in a rod!

Want to see a super-unique project, this guy has a turn of the century aircooled airship engine in his vehicle: Just a car guy : Finally learned what the J.A.P. racecar is! J A Prestons blimp engined cycle car
And just for the record, "JAP" stands for James Alfred Preston of England and as a side note, J.A.P. engines were used aboard the larger RAF aircraft during WWII (power supply units).

As far as "give me bacon" goes, that is the mother of all likes. You can dislike a post, you can like a post, or you can give bacon!

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## BiffF15 (Aug 9, 2014)

Bent,

Very cool hotrod indeed! Love the sound of a good ole throaty V8 (1966 Mustang GT 2+2 owner)! Sorry to hear the Rising Sun has to come off, but understand. Have you thought about using a stylized version of it, like on the Sundowners F-4 Phantoms, or the current JASDAF roundel?

I would post pictures but am unable to do so from work. However, here are two links: http://www.aviation-art.net/resized/Sundowners F4.jpg, Photos: McDonnell Douglas (Mitsubishi) F-15J Eagle Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net.

These are just to help stimulate the creative juices!

Cheers,
Biff

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## vikingBerserker (Aug 9, 2014)

Man that is awesome! Shame you need to remove the Rising Son, it really looks cool on it.


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## GregP (Aug 9, 2014)

It might be very neat to put a carburetor air scoop that rises from the carb, bends forward and fares into the top of the radiator. Maybe a wide and low (maybe 1 inch high across thr top of the radiator) opening that goes all the way across the top of the radiator but rapidly shrinks in width and increases in height and turns into the shape of the carb throat. Sort of like the carb intake ona P-51A, but wider and less tall.

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## tyrodtom (Aug 9, 2014)

You could put a scoop just like the carburetor scoop on the bottom front of the Zero's cowling, but invert it to the top of the radiator surround. The rounded contours of both are close. 

Or take the oil cooler scoop design from the bottom rear of the Zero cowling, put it on the hood.


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## BiffF15 (Aug 9, 2014)

tyrodtom said:


> You could put a scoop just like the carburetor scoop on the bottom front of the Zero's cowling, but invert it to the top of the radiator surround. The rounded contours of both are close.
> 
> Or take the oil cooler scoop design from the bottom rear of the Zero cowling, put it on the hood.



Photos: Mitsubishi A6M3 Reisen (Zero) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

You beat me to it Tyrodtom!


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## tyrodtom (Aug 9, 2014)

I think only the A6M2 had the carb. scoop on the bottom of the cowling, the later models were different.


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## BiffF15 (Aug 9, 2014)

Tyrodtom,
I noticed that some had two scoops, some had one but didn't tie it different models (but it makes sense). I thought the single would be a better prototype for hotrod hence it was the only one I posted!
Cheers,
Biff


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## GrauGeist (Aug 9, 2014)

Bent-Metal, also a thought, here...

Instead of the Imperial War Flag on the roof, why not consider a tail marking from one of the Sentai? A good example would be the tail insignia of the 22nd Sentai that operated out of Miho Kokutai, Totori prefecture.

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## Ivan1GFP (Aug 13, 2014)

Hello All,

On the A6M2 Zero, there are two scoops under the cowl.
The front scoop that is even with the leading edge of the cowl is the carburetor scoop.
The rear scoop that is under the trailing edge of the cowl is the oil cooler.

On the A6M3 and A6M5 Zero there is only one scoop under the cowl.
The oil cooler is in pretty much the same place as it was on the A6M2.
The carburetor scoop was moved to the upper leading edge of the cowl.
Although the engine diameter is unchanged, the intake ducting above the engine is blended into the contour of the cowl and it appears deeper.
Besides the exhaust differences, there is a slight difference in contour between the A6M3 and A6M5

The easiest visible contrast is that the rear edge of the A6M2 cowl is well below the lower edge of the front canopy frame. The two bulges for the nose guns make the fuselage between cockpit and cowl appear to slope downward to the front. On the A6M3 / A6M5, the raised line of the upper cowl is very close to aligned vertically with the lower edge of the front canopy frame.

Note that this description applies to the original Mitsubishi A6M series with a Sakae engine. The modern A6M replicas and restorations just about all fly with a Pratt Whitney R-1830 which is a bit larger and change this alignment even on the A6M2 replicas. I believe there is only one Zero that still flies with a Sakae and it is a A6M5.

Hope this helps.
- Ivan.

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## bent metal (Sep 1, 2014)

New picture for the dining room. My wife says I might be obsessing. ...again.  I don't think so, I just dig the seat.

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## bent metal (Sep 1, 2014)

I really like those air cleaner ideas. I'll run them past the boss. See what he thinks. We are getting down to dead line time. So I don't know how crazy we can get with what's left on this project. It needs to get done at this point. Matt is working on the mounting for the seats now. The guy is a metal artist, I'll post some pictures of his work when it's done. 
Thanks for the interest in this project! We're almost done!


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 1, 2014)

I like drawings like that framed, I think it makes them look sharp.


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## bent metal (Sep 1, 2014)

GrauGeist, That airship powered cycle car is awesome! Work of art. Thanks for the link!!!

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## Old Wizard (Sep 3, 2014)

There are two Zero related movies out in Japan. The Wind Rises and The Eternal Zero. Anybody watched either of them?


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## Hiromachi (Sep 3, 2014)

Wind Rises is not related to Zero, it is related to Jiro Horikoshi. I saw it, it is pretty good movie but director added from himself a bit, its not that accurate about Jiro's life. And more it focuses on early and mid 1930's. You wont find there much about A6M, which I believe was his best creation (with A7M, but second one was never allowed to prove the value). It is a good movie as I said, but it doesnt carry the story up to WWII.

The Eternal Zero on the other hand is movie i havent seen, but I've heared very good references. My Japanese friend, who is a student promised me to buy a copy of it in Japan and carry it to Europe, when he arrives. I'm only worried that movies purcheased in Japan dont have any options in case of subtitles, so I'll have to watch not understanding anything. 
But Eternal Zero is considered as very detailed and accurate movie in which everyone can find something interesting for him.
Those are pictures from 1:1 presenting full scale replica of A6M2 mod 21 from Rabaul Kokutai :










Zero-sen from Tainan Kokutai





Rabaul Lakunai Airfield:









This for instance is an exact replica of the operations building at Rabaul, on which Isoroku Yamamoto sat when he was supervising the attack on Guadalcanal.










Pictures taken from ????????????????? - ???????????????? - Yahoo!???


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## Ivan1GFP (Sep 3, 2014)

Those models are superb, but they should not have painted the undersides.


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## Hiromachi (Sep 4, 2014)

Did they ?
I'm looking on 2nd picture and colour on the low part of the wings is not green, it is much lighter. But it doesnt really matter, from the comments I've read the amount of detail they put into movie is really astonishing.


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## Old Wizard (Sep 4, 2014)

You can buy both movies at Yes Asia.


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## Ivan1GFP (Sep 4, 2014)

Hiromachi said:


> Did they ?
> I'm looking on 2nd picture and colour on the low part of the wings is not green, it is much lighter. But it doesnt really matter, from the comments I've read the amount of detail they put into movie is really astonishing.



Perhaps you are right. In the first photograph, the bottom of the fuselage is also a lighter colour.
I was expecting the green colour not to go as far down the side of the fuselage but field applied camouflage is probably a bit different from the factory paint patterns.

Can you see anything wrong with the models? I am certainly not an expert on the Type Zero, but I can't see anything except for an unexpected shape for the aileron hinge fairing. Maybe it is correct and my expectations are wrong. Even the cowling contours look good which is unusual.

Very Pretty! I hope the models end up in some place worthy.

- Ivan.


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## bent metal (Aug 11, 2018)

Some pictures.

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## bent metal (Aug 11, 2018)

Guess I forgot to take good "finished" pictures of the seats when they were done. I did see some pics on "Just a car guy". But I didn't want to repost his pictures without asking. So you could look for yourself, if you want. Search "Just a car guy, zero seats". Here is a pic I found while searching the around in my pics I have on my computer.

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## bent metal (Aug 15, 2018)

Ok, well I guess interest in this project has faded. The thread has run it's course. Thank you to all who helped with information. It was a fun project for me.

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## Shinpachi (Aug 15, 2018)

bent metal said:


> View attachment 505327
> View attachment 505328
> View attachment 505329
> So you could look for yourself, if you want.



You may be not kind as a poster but excellent as an artist, bent metal.
It took me a couple of days to find out some decent pics of your work though I was busy.





Source: Walden-built 1932 Ford Deuce heads to Japan

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## bent metal (Aug 17, 2018)

Shinpachi, thank you for the compliment on my work. Also, thank you for being honest with me.  I will work on that. I hope you have the opportunity to see the car one day. It is in Japan (near you, I don't know?) the owner Takehito, attends car shows there on a regular bases. So there is a good chance for you to see it in person, if you go to a car show.

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## Shinpachi (Aug 17, 2018)

No news about him and his car so far but I may come across any in the future.
Nobuo Harada who is now known as a leading Zero restorer in my country was like him decades ago as a mystery gentleman.

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## nuuumannn (Aug 21, 2018)

Superb Bent Metal. Just brilliant.

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