# Boeing Out For New Canadian Fighter



## fubar57 (Nov 25, 2021)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boeing-fighter-jets-1.6262851

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## Greyman (Nov 26, 2021)

Looking pretty good for Lockheed Martin.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 26, 2021)

Booo

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## SaparotRob (Nov 26, 2021)

Go Boeing!

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## Thumpalumpacus (Nov 26, 2021)

The Super Hornet _is_ an aging platform.


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## Capt. Vick (Nov 26, 2021)

What are the options Canada is considering?


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 26, 2021)

Capt. Vick said:


> What are the options Canada is considering?


F-35 or JAS 39


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## SaparotRob (Nov 26, 2021)

Aside from fiduciary duty, which one you liking FLYBOYJ?


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 26, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> Aside from fiduciary duty, which one you liking FLYBOYJ?


Well if you're looking to stretch dollars up front I would have to say the JAS 39. For versatility and a return on investment, the F-35. The specific mission of this aircraft also has to be identified to meet Canada's defense needs. Remember, Canada was an original partner of the F-35 program but balked on the purchase when the Harper and now Trudeau government balked on the perceived cost and all the negative BS that followed the F-35 from the beginning. If Canada buys the F-35 there is no doubt the Canadian aircraft industry will see plenty of subcontract work, not only to support their purchase but the entire F-35 program.

The JAS 39 is an excellent aircraft but there are many things the F-35 can do that the JAS can't. I also don't see SAAB matching the offset incentives that will come with Canada buying the F-35. What I haven't seen is what version of the F-35 is Canada looking to purchase, I'm assuming the F-35A.

There are many features and weapons systems on the F-35 that I know are still classified, once released I think the detractors will finally have their mouths shut!

As of September, more than 700 F-35s have been delivered to customers worldwide, and the three variants have amassed more than 430,000 flight hours.

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## SaparotRob (Nov 26, 2021)

I've read many negatives about the F-35. Just never seems to be written by pilots.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 26, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> I've read many negatives about the F-35. Just never seems to be written by pilots.


Yep, and by people who don't know or understand the aircraft, there are some who never recognized that there are 3 versions of the F-35! The program was not perfect and there were many mistakes made by LMCO AND the Pentagon, but in the end I think we have a very capable weapons system. There have been pilots who have flown this aircraft and have now retied from active duty and little if any negative comments have been made by them.

Going back to the OP's article - Canada may be in a good place as now the program matured to the point where the production lines are rolling, but at the same time may be behind the 8 ball as much of the subcontract work may have been already awarded (at least on the US production lines)

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## SaparotRob (Nov 26, 2021)

On the Military Aviation History YouTube channel, there was a vid on why Canada wasn't going to buy the F-35. I think the host was in the F-35 camp. It was posted a while ago.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 26, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> On the Military Aviation History YouTube channel, there was a vid on why Canada wasn't going to buy the F-35. I think the host was in the F-35 camp. It was posted a while ago.


Yes, and many will cite "old" info, but it's amazing since that video where we are today.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 26, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> F-35 or JAS 39



I hope they take the JAS39 simply to spite LM.

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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 26, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I hope they take the JAS39 simply to spite LM.

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## OldGeezer (Nov 26, 2021)

The full story of F-35 won't be told for decades, and when it is, there are going to be a lot of surprised people.

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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 26, 2021)

OldGeezer said:


> The full story of F-35 won't be told for decades, and when it is, there are going to be a lot of surprised people.


I think in as much that they misunderstood what this aircraft actually does/ can do.


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## Wildcat (Nov 26, 2021)

Maybe follow Australia's lead and get both the F-35 and Super Hornet?

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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 26, 2021)

Wildcat said:


> Maybe follow Australia's lead and get both the F-35 and Super Hornet?


That would be the optimum choice if Canada can afford it. Both aircraft have multi-role capabilities but I would lean more using the F/A-18 in an air-to-air role and use the F-35 for what it was intended for - a strike aircraft.


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## Greyman (Nov 27, 2021)

As long as the F-35 can keep up the tradition of showing the door to those Bears trying to get cute.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 27, 2021)

Its all just friendly banter. The program I work on is an LM-Boeing program.


Greyman said:


> As long as the F-35 can keep up the tradition of showing the door to those Bears trying to get cute.
> 
> View attachment 649596



The F-22 has gladly taken that role over for the most part.

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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 27, 2021)



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## special ed (Nov 27, 2021)

Note the tail gun positions in the previous two bear photos

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## Greyman (Nov 27, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> The F-22 has gladly taken that role over for the most part.



No doubt the F-22 is the queen for the role -- but I think it's very important that a plane with a maple leaf painted on the wings participates as well.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 27, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> View attachment 649645



Beautiful picture

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## SaparotRob (Nov 27, 2021)

special ed said:


> Note the tail gun positions in the previous two bear photos


Maybe they wanted pictures of an F-22?


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 27, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> Maybe they wanted pictures of an F-22?


I'm sure they did!

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 27, 2021)

"... Maybe follow Australia's lead and get both the F-35 and Super Hornet?"
Ha ha, *Canada ...! *You think we're made of money?

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## Wildcat (Nov 27, 2021)

According to world GDP lists, you guys have a bigger economy than us. Maybe money is not the issue, I suspect it has more to do with the P word as already mentioned.

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 27, 2021)

.... more like the 'c' word. Complacent.


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## special ed (Nov 27, 2021)

Wildcat said:


> According to world GDP lists, you guys have a bigger economy than us. Maybe money is not the issue, I suspect it has more to do with the P word as already mentioned.


P-39 ?

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## Crimea_River (Nov 28, 2021)

Intercept Bears? Hell, you can still do that with Voodoos!

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## Flylo (Nov 28, 2021)

fubar57 said:


> Good! Boeing killing Bombardier, Canada’s only aerospace manufacturer, with their short sighted attempt at blocking the (now) A220 out of US markets and then having the audacity to try and sell them -18’s deserved a BIG thumbs down. The -18 is done. It would’ve been very stupid to invest in a platform that’s already near the end of upgrades that try and keep it relevant. Never mind the quality control and design issues Boeing has succumbed to in an effort to place profits over quality and safety. This, on top of cheating to get “awarded” the KC-46 deal, resulting in a tanker that’s still not able to operate as requested, Boieng gets what they deserve.





fubar57 said:


> URLunfurl="true"]https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boeing-fighter-jets-1.6262851[/URL]


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## Flylo (Nov 28, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> That would be the optimum choice if Canada can afford it. Both aircraft have multi-role capabilities but I would lean more using the F/A-18 in an air-to-air role and use the F-35 for what it was intended for - a strike aircraft.





FLYBOYJ said:


> That would be the optimum choice if Canada can afford it. Both aircraft have multi-role capabilities but I would lean more using the F/A-18 in an air-to-air role and use the F-35 for what it was intended for - a strike aircraft.


I think the only advantage in keeping the -18 would be as additional missile trucks to be coordinated by the F-35’s superior sensors. I think the F-35 could out perform an -18 more often than not. The -18 was never considered a pure dog fighter, unlike the -16, -15 and -22. As they say, you’ve already screwed up if you’re in a dogfight anyway.


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## Wildcat (Nov 28, 2021)

special ed said:


> P-39 ?


Why not? Could work.

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## fubar57 (Nov 28, 2021)

Note the nose high attitude due to the lack of nose armour

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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 28, 2021)

Flylo said:


> I think the only advantage in keeping the -18 would be as additional missile trucks to be coordinated by the F-35’s superior sensors.* I think the F-35 could out perform an -18 more often than not. The -18 was never considered a pure dog fighter,* unlike the -16, -15 and -22. As they say, you’ve already screwed up if you’re in a dogfight anyway.


Maybe the legacy Hornets currently being flown by Canada, not the Superhornet. Additionally the F-35 was defined to be a strike aircraft, ironically both LMCO marketing and even some of its opponents have tried to push it as a dedicated air to air combat aircraft.


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 28, 2021)

Wildcat said:


> Why not? Could work.
> View attachment 649805


I wish I can give you bacon as well!!!!


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## buffnut453 (Nov 28, 2021)

Wildcat said:


> Why not? Could work.
> View attachment 649805



My eyes! MY EYES!!!! 

Now I can't un-see that....and no amount of cranial bleach or wire brushing between my ears will remove the memory.

Thanks a BUNCH!!!

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## Wildcat (Nov 29, 2021)

Seriously though, how good is my paint 3D skills

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## buffnut453 (Nov 29, 2021)

Wildcat said:


> Seriously though, how good is my paint 3D skills



You...Naughty corner....NOW!!!

I'm trying memory replacement theory as a means of trying to minimize the mental scarring that your abomination created. Here's my first attempt to reconnect my neural pathways by using a pic of a Bear with a REAL fighter aircraft:







It may be a LONG road to recovery!!!!!

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## SaparotRob (Dec 5, 2021)

I just read an Asia Times article on the Israeli "Blue Flag" training program involving several nations and their aircraft. It seems they have a system that really complements the F-35's capabilities. I found it thanks to michaelmaltby's post on an article on South Korea's plans for an aircraft carrier. Just scroll down after reading the article.

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## Greyman (Dec 5, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> If Canada buys the F-35 there is no doubt the Canadian aircraft industry will see plenty of subcontract work, not only to support their purchase but the entire F-35 program.



Already a good bit it seems:

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## GTX (Mar 28, 2022)

F-35 wins...no surprise:









Canada To Buy F-35 Fighter Jets From Lockheed Martin | DefenceTalk


Canada announced plans on Monday to buy 88 US-made F-35 stealth fighter jets to replace its aging fleet, with deliveries to start as early as 2025. The F-35 "has proven to be a mature, capable and interoperable aircraft and that is why we are moving to the finalization phase of…



www.defencetalk.com

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## SaparotRob (Mar 28, 2022)

Great post. I want to watch some YouTube videos now about how the F-35 stinks and no country wants 'em.

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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 28, 2022)

SaparotRob said:


> Great post. I want to watch some YouTube videos now about how the F-35 stinks and no country wants 'em.

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## nuuumannn (Mar 28, 2022)

Lockheed Martin is winning at the moment, the German order, now this.

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## SaparotRob (Mar 28, 2022)

So I'm guessing the per unit cost might be going down a bit.


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 28, 2022)

SaparotRob said:


> So I'm guessing the per unit cost might be going down a bit.


It has been and I think LMCO's offset deal is too good to pass up

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## SaparotRob (Mar 28, 2022)

For years we've read about new, expensive aircraft that would go down in cost if the "Gummint" could just buy enough of them. We now see it happening. All it took was a psychotic megalomaniac. 

I knew I shoulda' used a "wink" emoji next to "..going down a *bit*".

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