# Who was better



## Supermarine-SpitfireMkXIV (Aug 20, 2018)

If these two aces had met in a dogfight who would have shot each other down.


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## CORSNING (Aug 20, 2018)

Mr. Supermarine, that is the mostest stupidest question
I have seen on this site. You might want to put a whole
lot more thought into your question.

You might want to do a little thinking and then understand
that the greatest ace/aces of the war was/were the one/ones
that helped others to the best of his/their ability/abilities.

That is how I see that, Jeff

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## Supermarine-SpitfireMkXIV (Aug 20, 2018)

CORSNING said:


> Mr. Supermarine, that is the mostest stupidest question
> I have seen on this site. You might want to put a whole
> lot more thought into your question.
> 
> ...


I am sorry I do not understand your comment


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## CORSNING (Aug 20, 2018)

What are the exact circumstances that these two meet?
At what altitude?
Which Yak-1? (The batches produced differed greatly in performance.)
Which Bf.109E? (Performance varied.)
Is this to be set up as a duel like Dickenson and Mussolini at the
beginning of The Ragged, Rugged Warriors by Martin Caidin?
, Jeff


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## Supermarine-SpitfireMkXIV (Aug 20, 2018)

CORSNING said:


> What are the exact circumstances that these two meet?
> At what altitude?
> Which Yak-1? (The batches produced differed greatly in performance.)
> Which Bf.109E? (Performance varied.)
> ...


YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 20, 2018)

Supermarine-SpitfireMkXIV said:


> If these two aces had met who would have shot each other down.


The one who saw the other first

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## CORSNING (Aug 20, 2018)

The outcome of a dogfight of two great flyers has many
variables.
The pilot's abilities and his aircraft's.
The state of mind of each pilot and their health.
The engine's ability to perform at the time of conflict.
Just too many variables.
I really am not qualified to answer the question. If
every piece of machinery was at its best and the
pilots were at the prime of their life and fighting ability.
Well then, I would say the outcome would be up to God.
Yep, that is exactly how I see that. Jeff


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## Supermarine-SpitfireMkXIV (Aug 20, 2018)

CORSNING said:


> The outcome of a dogfight of two great flyers has many
> variables.
> The pilot's abilities and his aircraft's.
> The state of mind of each pilot and their health.
> ...


Say they all have everything maximum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## CORSNING (Aug 20, 2018)

FLYBOYJ said:


> The one who saw the other first


Joe,
I believe Super is talking about a duel between two pilots that have agreed to a duel and
are meeting out on the streets of Dodge City at noon.

, I think I am just going to go throw some popcorn in the microwave
and grab an ice cold beer out of the freezer. Joe, I'll order a pizza and
make sure there is plenty of beer in the freezer. Do you want me to go
out and rent a good movie? Of course you are invited over. What brand of
beer should I get?

Yes, I will put up extra chairs for the crew and order plenty of pizza.

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## CORSNING (Aug 20, 2018)

Supermarine,
I am just funning with you man. You are asking a hypothetical
question that nobody can truly answer. Anything can happen
in a dogfight where both pilots are aware of each other. Of course
the better pilot has the edge, providing his plane does not let
him down. The very first initial production batch of Yak-1s was
watched closely and of excellent performance that would give
any Bf.109E a trouncing provided pilot abilities were even and
engines were in peak performance. After the first batch of Yak-1s
produced there was great difficulties with production that did not
allow the Yak-1 to fully reach its potential until the Bf.109F-1/2
came along. That was just for a very short while. The Bf.109F-4
completely outclassed the Yak-1.
Why don't you ask Biff 15 how much fun it would be to go up
into the air with the last state-of-the-art F-15 against an F-22?
That is exactly how the Yak-1 pilots of 1942 felt when they
had to face the Bf.109F-4s.


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## CORSNING (Aug 20, 2018)

Supermarine-SpitfireMkXIV said:


> Say they all have everything maximum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Then I think I was quite clear in my reply. For the answer you will have
to ask God.. Acually, I am not kidding.


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## GrauGeist (Aug 20, 2018)

Lilya, because she was smokin' hot...

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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 20, 2018)

CORSNING said:


> Joe,
> I believe Super is talking about a duel between two pilots that have agreed to a duel and
> are meeting out on the streets of Dodge City at noon.
> 
> ...



LOL

But his exact words...

*"If these two aces had met who would have shot each other down"*


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## CORSNING (Aug 20, 2018)

FLYBOYJ said:


> LOL
> 
> But his exact words...
> 
> *"If these two aces had met who would have shot each other down"*



I know Joe, I feel your anxiety. I have worked at a hospital for 43 years.
I am just trying to say that we must be patient from time to time.


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## Shortround6 (Aug 20, 2018)

I believe that Hartman was prouder of his never having lost a wingman than his victory total.

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## CORSNING (Aug 20, 2018)

GrauGeist said:


> Lilya, because she was smokin' hot...


Dammit GrauGeist you are not helping at all.

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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 20, 2018)

CORSNING said:


> I know Joe, I feel your anxiety. I have worked at a hospital for 43 years.
> I am just trying to say that we must be patient from time to time.

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## CORSNING (Aug 20, 2018)

Shortround6 said:


> I believe that Hartman was prouder of his never having lost a wingman than his victory total.


There you go Supermarine, it does not get any clearer than that!
The only problem I now see is how did Lydia view her comrades?


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## Glider (Aug 20, 2018)

I think it depends on if its a Tuesday or a Wednesday.

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## Supermarine-SpitfireMkXIV (Aug 20, 2018)

CORSNING said:


> There you go Supermarine, it does not get any clearer than that!
> The only problem I now see is how did Lydia view her comrades?


She was good friends with them. she saved their lives sometimes


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## Supermarine-SpitfireMkXIV (Aug 20, 2018)

Glider said:


> I think it depends on if its a Tuesday or a Wednesday.


Wednesday


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## Supermarine-SpitfireMkXIV (Aug 20, 2018)

GrauGeist said:


> Lilya, because she was smokin' hot...


Then vote for her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## CORSNING (Aug 20, 2018)

Supermarine-SpitfireMkXIV said:


> She was good friends with them. she saved their lives sometimes


OK then, what is the real answer that you are looking for?
Two great flyers that had true feelings for their cohorts.
Knowing that, which one do you want to kill the other?

Please tell me the whole notion is starting to sink in.


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## Glider (Aug 20, 2018)

Changed my mind. If it's a certain time of the month then I choose Lydia every time, on the basis that I have learnt never to argue with my wife at those sensitive times.

PS this isn't sexist, its self preservation.​

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## pbehn (Aug 20, 2018)

One thing that marks all aces out apart from their count of victories is their ability to survive. At the peak of their game in evenly matched planes I don't think many top aces would get a shot on another unless a head on.


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## tyrodtom (Aug 20, 2018)

You're putting a 12 victory 66 combat sortie Ace against a ace that would eventually fly 1404 combat sorties and and get to 352 victories. 
WHY ?

Then put Hartmann in a variant of the Bf-109 he never flew in combat, by the time Hartmann got to the front the Luftwaffe was flying the G models of the 109.

With out some parameters I'm puzzled why the question is even asked .

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