# Bluie West #1



## billrunnels (May 16, 2018)

On our (night) crossing in January 1945 we had to make an emergency landing at Bluie West One in Greenland due to insufficient fuel to make Iceland. While over the Ice Cap the base control tower was contacted. The operator said the base was closed because of gusting surface winds up to 80 MPH and they had no electric runway lights. Our pilot replied "it may be closed but we are going to reopen it, we have no other choice". Consideration had been given to bailing out over the Ice Cap. We let down in a clear area over the Atlantic and headed for the entrance to the fjord. I doubt that a rougher ride exists but our B-17 took it in stride. The control tower operator said "B-17 where are you" and our pilot replied "we will be around the corner in a minute or two". A safe landing was made. They had positioned jeeps at each end of the runway with headlights on to assist the landing approach. Each member of our crew experienced a degree of motion sickness.

To give you a feeling for the landing challenge, YouTube has a short video of a daylight landing using the same approach we did. If interested, go to YouTube and search "Phenom 100 Narsarsuaq approach".

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## fubar57 (May 16, 2018)

Would have been interesting to bail out with 80mph surface winds. Is this the right video Bill?


_View: https://youtu.be/EUpCQsP5ijg_​

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## Crimea_River (May 16, 2018)

If I recall, there was an episode of Ice Pilots in which they landed 2 CL-215s there on a fuel stop while ferrying these from Canada to Turkey.


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## billrunnels (May 16, 2018)

Crimea_River said:


> If I recall, there was an episode of Ice Pilots in which they landed 2 CL-215s there on a fuel stop while ferrying these from Canada to Turkey.


Makes sense.We stopped there to have lunch and take on fuel on the way back after the war ended.

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## airminded88 (May 16, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> On our (night) crossing in January 1945 we had to make an emergency landing at Bluie West One in Greenland due to insufficient fuel to make Iceland. While over the Ice Cap the base control tower was contacted. The operator said the base was closed because of gusting surface winds up to 80 MPH and they had no electric runway lights. Our pilot replied "it may be closed but we are going to reopen it, we have no other choice". Consideration had been given to bailing out over the Ice Cap. We let down in a clear area over the Atlantic and headed for the entrance to the fjord. I doubt that a rougher ride exists but our B-17 took it in stride. The control tower operator said "B-17 where are you" and our pilot replied "we will be around the corner in a minute or two". A safe landing was made. They had positioned jeeps at each end of the runway with headlights on to assist the landing approach. Each member of our crew experienced a degree of motion sickness.



Fascinating story Bill and such breathtaking video without doubt. Thank you for sharing.
I remember reading some years ago that the USAAF expected a loss rate of bombers crews crossing the north Atlantic en route to Europe between 5-7% but fortunately less than 5% was achieved overall.

Bill, between that voyage to Europe via the north Atlantic and your first operational sortie, which endevour kept you more on edge?

Cheers


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## MIflyer (May 16, 2018)

Late last year I reread the great Earnie Gann book, "Fate is the Hunter" and found it even better than I recalled. He talks about flying the northern Atlantic and getting into Blue West One, having clouds down to the ground and having to fly through that fiord (like 633 Squadron) while looking for that unreliable and weak radio signal. Fortunately there was a sunken ship at the entrance to the fiord and that served as a marker that it was the right one. Flying up one of wrong fiords would have been fatal.

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## billrunnels (May 16, 2018)

airminded88 said:


> Fascinating story Bill and such breathtaking video without doubt. Thank you for sharing.
> I remember reading some years ago that the USAAF expected a loss rate of bombers crews crossing the north Atlantic en route to Europe between 5-7% but fortunately less than 5% was achieved overall.
> 
> Bill, between that voyage to Europe via the north Atlantic and your first operational sortie, which endevour kept you more on edge?
> ...


Twenty aircraft were dispatched for our night crossing to Iceland. Two sent in SOS of which one made it and one was lost.
The night emergency landing in Greenland was the most concerning thing I experienced during the war more so than any mission. The thought of bailing out over the Icecap, which was vetoed by a crew vote, or ditching in the cold Atlantic was up setting to say the least. Between the crossing and the first operational sortie it was smooth sailing. The two week period of training and just getting acquainted consumed my time. I found the period to be a welcome challenge.

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## billrunnels (May 16, 2018)

fubar57 said:


> Would have been interesting to bail out with 80mph surface winds. Is this the right video Bill?
> 
> 
> _View: https://youtu.be/EUpCQsP5ijg_​



It is not the one I referenced but is an excellent one. Thanks for sharing.

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## Crimea_River (May 16, 2018)

MIflyer said:


> Late last year I reread the great Earnie Gann book, "Fate is the Hunter" and found it even better than I recalled. He talks about flying the northern Atlantic and getting into Blue West One, having clouds down to the ground and having to fly through that fiord (like 633 Squadron) while looking for that unreliable and weak radio signal. Fortunately there was a sunken ship at the entrance to the fiord and that served as a marker that it was the right one. Flying up one of wrong fiords would have been fatal.



Great book that. If I recall that scene they were descending in a soup and weren't sure how high off the water they were. They let out the trailing aerial and when the weight snapped off after hitting the water they knew they were low enough!

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## billrunnels (May 17, 2018)

The runway at Bluie West #1 elevation was interesting. At the fjord end it was 10 ft and at the opposite end 136 ft. The difference over the 6,500 X 200 ft concrete runway was clear to the naked eye. We landed up hill and departed down hill. Setting in the nose of the B-17 on take off gave me the feeling we were going to drive into the water. However, after rotation and a rather steep bank to the left all was normal again. Our brief stay at the base was pleasant with one exception, someone stole my two boxes of candy bars that were stored in the nose.


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## Crimea_River (May 17, 2018)

Perhaps a small payment for a safe voyage.

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## 25Kingman49 (May 17, 2018)

Hi Bill,
Thanks for sharing this great story of your ferry crossing. Is this the video you had in mind? This one shows the approach from the fiord.


_View: https://youtu.be/IKBIngZ5L6s_


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## Bad-Karma (May 17, 2018)

Great post Bill! Where did you end up flying back to in the states? Did the forts end up sitting at air bases or were they already slated for the scrap heap?


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## Jim Daigneau (May 17, 2018)

Great story, Bill. Thank you for posting. I was surprised to read that you crossed in January. I thought the route was generally closed from November-ish to March-ish, depending on the actual weather. Also, the thought of bailing out at night, over the ice cap in likely hurricane force winds is _REALLY_ not appealing. Glad you guys made the right decision!


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## MIflyer (May 17, 2018)

From the book I am now reading, "The Bomber Aircrew Experience."
On 18 Jun 1942 the first 8th AF combat units were staged to Presque Isle, Maine. The first leg was 570 miles to Goose Bay, Labrador; 15 B-17's arrived there on the late afternoon of 26 Jun, refueled, and left for Blue west One, 775 miles from Goose Bay. At Blue West One the bombers were unable to land due to poor visibility. One B-17 went on to land safely at Blue West 8, about 400 miles further along the coast of Greenland. Eleven other B-17's made it back to Goose Bay and three others became lost and had to crash land on the coast of Greenland; all the crews were rescued. 

By 27 July 180 aircraft, C-47's, B-17's and P-38's had arrived safely in Scotland. 6 P-38's and 5 B-17's were lost but all the crews were saved.

By the way, Presque Isle, Maine is nowhere near the ocean. I recall after the AFB was closed considering that airport as a possible landing spot for the X-33 if launched from Cape Canaveral.

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## billrunnels (May 17, 2018)

MIflyer said:


> From the book I am now reading, "The Bomber Aircrew Experience."
> On 18 Jun 1942 the first 8th AF combat units were staged to Presque Isle, Maine. The first leg was 570 miles to Goose Bay, Labrador; 15 B-17's arrived there on the late afternoon of 26 Jun, refueled, and left for Blue west One, 775 miles from Goose Bay. At Blue West One the bombers were unable to land due to poor visibility. One B-17 went on to land safely at Blue West 8, about 400 miles further along the coast of Greenland. Eleven other B-17's made it back to Goose Bay and three others became lost and had to crash land on the coast of Greenland; all the crews were rescued.
> 
> By 27 July 180 aircraft, C-47's, B-17's and P-38's had arrived safely in Scotland. 6 P-38's and 5 B-17's were lost but all the crews were saved.
> ...


Thanks for the post. Very informative. The Greenland stop continued to be challenging in 1945 when we made the crossing.

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## MIflyer (May 17, 2018)

Gann's novel "Island in the Sky", which was made into a movie. was based on an actual incident in WWII when a transport aircraft got lost and ended up landing in the wilderness. In those days crews flying that route essentially found themselves in the position of being explorers, hampered by not only the weather but lack of accurate maps and in some cases magnetic anomalies that made compasses unreliable. In the movie the lost airplane was a C-47 but I think in reality it was a C-87.

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## billrunnels (May 17, 2018)

MIflyer said:


> Gann's novel "Island in the Sky", which was made into a movie. was based on an actual incident in WWII when a transport aircraft got lost and ended up landing in the wilderness. In those days crews flying that route essentially found themselves in the position of being explorers, hampered by not only the weather but lack of accurate maps and in some cases magnetic anomalies that made compasses unreliable. In the movie the lost airplane was a C-47 but I think in reality it was a C-87.


Oddly much the same could be said about Greenland at the time, January 1945, of our crossing. The navigational and Bluie West #1 landing instructions we had to review, while circling over the Ice Cap, said the maps and charts for the area were inaccurate with exception of the coast line. Consequently, a minimum safe altitude of 12,000 ft was recommended.

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## billrunnels (May 18, 2018)

25Kingman49 said:


> Hi Bill,
> Thanks for sharing this great story of your ferry crossing. Is this the video you had in mind? This one shows the approach from the fiord.
> 
> 
> _View: https://youtu.be/IKBIngZ5L6s_



It is. Thanks for the assist. I couldn't make it happen


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## billrunnels (May 18, 2018)

Jim Daigneau said:


> Great story, Bill. Thank you for posting. I was surprised to read that you crossed in January. I thought the route was generally closed from November-ish to March-ish, depending on the actual weather. Also, the thought of bailing out at night, over the ice cap in likely hurricane force winds is _REALLY_ not appealing. Glad you guys made the right decision!


The route might as well have been closed. We departed Hunter Field, GA on December 24, 1944 and arrived Molesworth, England February 1, 1945. Spent time in New York, Bangor and Goose Bay along the way. The lengthy delay was due to ice storms over the Atlantic and congestion at airports created by the back up. However, there was a plus, we spent New Years Eve at Times Square welcoming in 1945.

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## billrunnels (May 18, 2018)

Bad-Karma said:


> Great post Bill! Where did you end up flying back to in the states? Did the forts end up sitting at air bases or were they already slated for the scrap heap?


We returned an aircraft arriving Bradly Field, Windsor Locks, Connecticut June, 14, 1945. The B-17 was abandoned here. Have no idea what happened to it.

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## airminded88 (May 18, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> Twenty aircraft were dispatched for our night crossing to Iceland. Two sent in SOS of which one made it and one was lost.
> The night emergency landing in Greenland was the most concerning thing I experienced during the war more so than any mission. The thought of bailing out over the Icecap, which was vetoed by a crew vote, or ditching in the cold Atlantic was up setting to say the least. Between the crossing and the first operational sortie it was smooth sailing. The two week period of training and just getting acquainted consumed my time. I found the period to be a welcome challenge.



Flying at night over an icy ocean is definitely not for the faint of heart!
Many crews were sadly lost on that dangerous trip.
Thank you for sharing Bill

Cheers

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## billrunnels (May 19, 2018)

Our lack of sufficient fuel to reach Iceland was the result of excess flight time between Goose Bay and Bluie West #1. The weather over the Atlantic made live navigation impossible. We couldn't see the stars or the water. The only navigation tool we had was the metro data received prior to take off and it wasn't accurate. We reached that point in time when the radio signal from the tip of Greenland should be audible but it wasn't. Our navigator made a second attempt a few minutes later and picked up a faint signal. We were considerably north of the plotted course. Homed in on the signal and on reaching it created a new heading for Iceland. We had just cleared the Ice Cap when our navigator determined insufficient fuel.

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## MIflyer (May 19, 2018)

Bill: "Consequently, a minimum safe altitude of 12,000 ft was recommended."

I have read of cases of aircraft making accidental belly landings in areas like that, due to poor visibility or simply the inability of the crew to discern the difference between the white sky and white ground. It's a case of "Hey! What was that noise! And why did our airspeed suddenly go to zero?"

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## billrunnels (May 19, 2018)

MIflyer said:


> Bill: "Consequently, a minimum safe altitude of 12,000 ft was recommended."
> 
> I have read of cases of aircraft making accidental belly landings in areas like that, due to poor visibility or simply the inability of the crew to discern the difference between the white sky and white ground. It's a case of "Hey! What was that noise! And why did our airspeed suddenly go to zero?"


Depth perception certainly could be a problem.


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## Zipper730 (May 19, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> On our (night) crossing in January 1945 we had to make an emergency landing at Bluie West One in Greenland due to insufficient fuel to make Iceland. While over the Ice Cap the base control tower was contacted. The operator said the base was closed because of gusting surface winds up to 80 MPH and they had no electric runway lights.


Yikes, what's the landing speed on a B-17?


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## billrunnels (May 19, 2018)

Zipper730 said:


> Yikes, what's the landing speed on a B-17?


Sorry I don't know but my guess would be between 125 and 150 mph indicated. I know the wing flaps were lowered at 145 mph indicated.

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## MIflyer (May 19, 2018)

According to a B-17 pilot in the book "The Bomber Aircrew Experience":

1. You went down the runway on takeoff and at 100 mph indicated you pulled the wheel back and it started flying.

2. On landing you came over the fence at 110 mph and it would stall out at 92 or 93 mph.

3. Whether in good shape or shot up it was pretty consistent as to the required airspeeds.

Note that with a lot of wind, especially a lot of crosswind, you would use higher airspeeds. The wind reduces your groundspeed but not the airspeed it will stall at. Wind bouncing off of obstructions near the ground and gusting can cause you to stall at higher indicated airspeeds than 92 mph.

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## billrunnels (May 19, 2018)

MIflyer said:


> According to a B-17 pilot in the book "The Bomber Aircrew Experience":
> 
> 1. You went down the runway on takeoff and at 100 mph indicated you pulled the wheel back and it started flying.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the i


MIflyer said:


> According to a B-17 pilot in the book "The Bomber Aircrew Experience":
> 
> 1. You went down the runway on takeoff and at 100 mph indicated you pulled the wheel back and it started flying.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info.


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## 25Kingman49 (May 19, 2018)

billrunnels said:


> We returned an aircraft arriving Bradly Field, Windsor Locks, Connecticut June, 14, 1945. The B-17 was abandoned here. Have no idea what happened to it.


Bill, from your 303BG Memories:
"Departure Operations Order #168, dated June 19, 1945 made me the bombardier on Major Ruel G. Weikert's Crew. This crew was the first of eighteen to depart for the States The order also included the good news phrase "proceed via the best available air route to Bradley Field , Windsor Locks, Connecticut, thence to Camp Miles Standish , Boston POE (point of embarkation). B-17G #43-38560 had been parked on an isolated hard stand for loading."

From Joe Baugher no listing other than construction grouping aid: B-17G-90-BO-43-38560; a Boeing Seattle, WA (Plant 2) built Fort. 
From Dave Osborne, Fort Log (expanded): 43-38560 Delivered Cheyenne 17/8/44; Lincoln 6/9/44; Grenier 18/9/44; slated Soxo; Returned to the USA Bradley 24/6/45; 4168 Base Unit, South Plains, Texas 27/6/45; Reconstruction Finance Corporation (sold for scrap metal in USA) Kingman 20/12/45. Note: SOXO is a shipping code = Eighth AF. England.

It seems your Fort home met its end in the northern Arizona high desert. Searched but was unable to find a photo of this Fort. Some indication here 43-38560 | American Air Museum in Britain that this ship may have had nose art and name "Stormy Weather" serving with the 94BG not recorded in the Osborne record.

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## billrunnels (May 19, 2018)

25Kingman49 said:


> Bill, from your 303BG Memories:
> "Departure Operations Order #168, dated June 19, 1945 made me the bombardier on Major Ruel G. Weikert's Crew. This crew was the first of eighteen to depart for the States The order also included the good news phrase "proceed via the best available air route to Bradley Field , Windsor Locks, Connecticut, thence to Camp Miles Standish , Boston POE (point of embarkation). B-17G #43-38560 had been parked on an isolated hard stand for loading."
> 
> From Joe Baugher no listing other than construction grouping aid: B-17G-90-BO-43-38560; a Boeing Seattle, WA (Plant 2) built Fort.
> ...


Thank you for the information on the aircraft we brought back.


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## billrunnels (May 19, 2018)

If you want to get a birds eye view of the beauty Greenland has to offer go to YouTube and check out the "Landing at Narsarsuaq"(Bluie West #1) videos. They have several you can watch.


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## Gnomey (May 19, 2018)

Great stuff Bill!


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