# Nazi Gold Train - THE RESULTS!!!



## Thorlifter (Aug 25, 2016)

I'm a little sad, but not shocked......

Results of big dig for Nazi "gold train" revealed

WARSAW, Poland -- Explorers’ great hopes for finding a legendary Nazi “gold train” in Poland appeared dashed Wednesday when, after digging extensively, they admitted they have found “no train, no tunnel” at the site.

The legend has sparked a gold rush, drawing in explorers and treasure hunters from across Europe to Poland’s southwestern town of Walbrzych, and prompting local authorities to dream about a great inflow of tourists and money.

The local legend says in 1945, the Nazi Germans hid a train laden with gold and valuables in a secret tunnel nearby as they were fleeing the advancing Soviet army at the end of World War II.

Last week two explorers - Andreas Richter, a German, and Piotr Koper, a Pole - moved in with heavy equipment and dug deep at a site near rail tracks in Walbrzych, following comments by residents who said they had knowledge of the train’s existence.

Richter and Koper said last year that their own tests using earth-penetrating radar confirmed a train was at the site.

But the explorers’ spokesman, Andrzej Gaik, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that they found “no train, no tunnel” there and that the machines were covering over the three pits that cost 140,000 zlotys ($37,000) to dig.

Saying “hope dies last,” Gaik said a smaller-scale search using probes will resume at a nearby site in September.

The dig confirmed findings by experts from a university in Krakow last year who used magnetic equipment but found no trace of train or tunnel, Gaik said.

Historians say the existence of the train, which is said to have gone missing in May 1945, never has been conclusively proven. Polish authorities nonetheless have seemed eager to pursue any chance of recovering treasures that have sparked the imaginations of local people for decades.

At the height of the frenzy last year, the World Jewish Congress reminded Poland’s authorities that, in the case of a discovery of a treasure-laden train, any valuables belonging to Jews killed in the Holocaust must be returned to their rightful owners or their heirs.

Legend holds that an armed train loaded with treasure disappeared after entering a complex of tunnels under the Owl Mountains, a secret project known as “Riese” - or Giant - which the Nazis never finished.

The area belonged to Germany at the time, but has been part of Poland since the borders were moved in the postwar settlement.

A man credited with being the main living source of the legend is a retired miner, Tadeusz Slowikowski. He heard from a German man in the 1970s of a train that left the German city of Breslau (today Poland’s Wroclaw) in the spring of 1945, as the Soviet army approached. He said the man told him the train disappeared before ever making it to Waldenburg (now Walbrzych) some 45 miles to the west.

However, a local historian, Pawel Rodziewicz, told The Associated Press last year that documentation leaves no doubt that gold in Breslau was evacuated to the German central bank in Berlin and elsewhere, so there would have been no reason to take any to Waldenburg, where the approaching Soviets could find it.

He thinks it is impossible that a secret railway tunnel could have been built into the hill near railroad tracks in frequent use. No documents have ever been found to indicate such a project was undertaken, while documents exist even for the most top-secret projects of the Third Reich, including some for the subterranean tunnels beneath the Ksiaz Castle in Walbrzych, Rodziewicz argued.


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## ww2restorer (Aug 25, 2016)

At least they followed their beliefs and stirred up interest. We must remember that there is still thousands of tons of gold, art and artefact's that are still missing from the Nazi pillage.


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## stona (Aug 25, 2016)

ww2restorer said:


> We must remember that there is still thousands of tons of gold, art and artefact's that are still missing from the Nazi pillage.



A lot of that is unaccounted for rather than missing. A subtle distinction, but it is not lost. However, the people and institutions who have it are not about to tell the world. The bizarre case of Cornelius Gurlitt is just one case in point.

I can hardly say I'm surprised at the results. If there was a train there it would have been found years ago. How many people would have known of its existence? Is it seriously possible that they would all have remained silent until the day they died? The Germans being German there would probably be a paper trail for it 

Cheers

Steve


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## ww2restorer (Aug 25, 2016)

If it is not lost, where is it then. There is no paper trail as like most things at the end of the war, as much paperwork was destroyed, why do you think there is little technical info on [email protected] aircraft, most of it was destroyed either by bombing raids or burned as the allies approached. unaccounted for, a subtle distinction from missing, you have to be joking. If you know where all this booty and paperwork is, tell us, the world will make you famous. I am sure those that you say have it, are doing a great job of hiding it .Cornelius Gurlitt collection is only a drop in the bucket. How many people knew about the missing loot, if they were high ranking SS or Hitler inner circle, they probably were shot, took cyanide, or executed. The golden room alone would fill a few carriages in a train or many truck.


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## stona (Aug 25, 2016)

ww2restorer said:


> If it is not lost, where is it then.



Who knows? Art becomes a sort of currency in the underworld, a lot simply gets destroyed. Large quantities of currency or gold? you could start by asking the Swiss, they won't give you an answer. 

Gurlitt had some drop in the ocean! Estimated at 1 billion euros it was probably worth a lot more than the gold supposed to be on the Polish train and, being in a Munich apartment, was probably easier to find.

I agree that a lot of documentation was destroyed but an amazing amount survives, even about things you would not expect, the early efforts to cleanse Poland of its Jewish population or the minutes of the Wannsee Conference for example.

This train is not the first 'Nazi treasure' to provoke such interest and it won't be the last. Some of the others have slightly less nebulous foundations. All involve a lot of wishful thinking and the wild extrapolation from known facts so beloved of conspiracy theorists, and all have amounted to exactly nothing.

Cheers

Steve


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## GrauGeist (Aug 25, 2016)

Another thing to take into consideration, is how many "treasure trains" did NOT escape the roaming Allied aircraft that scoured the countryside in the final months of the war?

There was no way to tell the difference what the cargo was from the air: supplies, troops, POWs or "treasure" - the only thing that these aircraft knew, was a target was on the move and reacted accordingly.

So it's entirely possible that a train loaded with such items may have been obliterated and in the aftermath, valuable items that remained would not escape the attention of locals or troops in the area.


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## stona (Aug 25, 2016)

Yep, I suspect a lot of this stuff was destroyed, one way or another.
Cheers
Steve


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## at6 (Aug 25, 2016)

There may or may not be some truth in a treasure train. I watched a special some years ago about millions a counter fit British and American currency dumped in a lake in Europe and the crates holding the fake money were located proving the truth of the rumor. So you just never know, there may be something found one day. Just not there.


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## stona (Aug 25, 2016)

at6 said:


> So you just never know, there may be something found one day. Just not there.



Of course that is perfectly true, but the list of treasures found since, say 1948, is a very, very short one. I think the incident you are thinking of was when millions of pounds in forged British banknotes were retrieved from a lake in the late '50s. They were worthless and the gold alleged also to have been dumped in the lake has yet to be found. 
Cheers
Steve


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## GrauGeist (Aug 25, 2016)

It's certainly possible to find some hoards - in the final months of the war, it was pretty much "every man for himself".

It was about a year ago, that a buried stash of Nazi gold coins were found where a tree had been. They found that the coins had been in bank pouches, though only the bank seals remained. It was in the area of Lüneburg and they guy that discovered them got a small reward. I don't recall the value of the coins, but it was quite a bit.

There's actually a good many "rumors" from the war about lost or hidden treasure - not just Axis, but Allied as well. There was a British cargo ship that was torpedoed by a U-Boat, that had a cargo of silver ingots on board, and I believe they recently found that by way of a deep-sea submersible.


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## ww2restorer (Aug 25, 2016)

The Gold room alone from St Petersburg is worth over a billion euro, that's only one item. At the end if the war they found caves full of cash, gold teeth, art etc. worth millions back then which would be worth billions today.8 years ago I was in Moldova and we come across an old monastery which had been quarried out of limestone cut from inside a large hill in the same valley. It was only recently found a secret cavity that the monks hid in during the German occupation (4+years) and never found. It was full of the monastery religious treasures(including a 5 ton gold bell) which have now been restored back into the monastery. To hide from the military for the period of the war and the Russian occupation until the late 90s and not be found, the hiding of German war plunder is very possible and cannot be just dismissed. All possible links should be addressed, as this train was.


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## Capt. Vick (Aug 25, 2016)

I think you mean the amber room.


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## ww2restorer (Aug 25, 2016)

same thing, its all gold


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## GrauGeist (Aug 25, 2016)

ww2restorer said:


> same thing, its all gold


Actually, it's not, the panels were cut from slabs of fossilized amber and trimmed in gold.


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## ww2restorer (Aug 25, 2016)

semantics, don't forget the mirrors and candle. You have to learn when someone is using a generalised term. Next time I will get down to the minute details.


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## GrauGeist (Aug 25, 2016)

ww2restorer said:


> semantics, don't forget the mirrors and candle. You have to learn when someone is using a generalised term. Next time I will get down to the minute details.


Don't get your panties in a wad...

Jim referred to it by it's correct name.

The Amber room was considered the 8th wonder of the world at the time, no one called it the "gold room".


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## ww2restorer (Aug 25, 2016)

Don't wear panties( them things are for girls). BTW it is also known as the Golden Drawing Room (reference your favourite research site , wiki). It is you who got perfectionist over general terms, but then who cares.


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## GrauGeist (Aug 25, 2016)

ww2restorer said:


> Don't wear panties( them things are for girls). BTW it is also known as the Golden Drawing Room (reference your favourite research site , wiki). It is you who got perfectionist over general terms, but then who cares.


Beating the dead horse, are we?


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## ww2restorer (Aug 25, 2016)

GrauGeist said:


> Beating the dead horse, are we?


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## GrauGeist (Aug 25, 2016)

By the way, your lame attempt at a reply brought up a good point.

Your smartass comment about wiki is a nice little dig, but we don't usually use it here. But in your case, you might try wiki to learn more about the Bernsteinzimmer - it has pictures so you can keep up.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 25, 2016)

ww2restorer said:


> same thing, its all gold









Actually no it's not...

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 25, 2016)

ww2restorer said:


> semantics, don't forget the mirrors and candle. You have to learn when someone is using a generalised term. Next time I will get down to the minute details.



Maybe next time you should just admit you were wrong. Backpeddling just makes it worse.


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## ww2restorer (Aug 26, 2016)

No body is being a smart arse except you. I don't care who you are, you really show your limit of any knowledge and manners. Fact still remains, The treasures that are missing , are still missing. As for wiki references, this web page has thousands of references to the site. Bernsteinzimmer, that what you were going to call it when you got it home?. keep up my friend, will leave you in the dust. Grab one of beers from the beautiful fraulein in Dirndl, enjoy and relax.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 26, 2016)

ww2restorer said:


> No body is being a smart arse except you. I don't care who you are, you really show your limit of any knowledge and manners. Fact still remains, The treasures that are missing , are still missing. As for wiki references, this web page has thousands of references to the site. Bernsteinzimmer, that what you were going to call it when you got it home?. keep up my friend, will leave you in the dust. Grab one of beers from the beautiful fraulein in Dirndl, enjoy and relax.



Warning given, you ain't leaving anyone in the dust if you are going to act like a jack ass. Maybe it is you who needs to learn to relax.


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## Capt. Vick (Aug 26, 2016)

Whoa, next time I'll just keep my pasta hole shut.


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## stona (Aug 26, 2016)

ww2restorer said:


> The Gold room alone from St Petersburg is worth over a billion euro, that's only one item. .



I've seen the reconstructed AMBER ROOM in the Catherine Palace. It is a beautiful room, if a little extravagant and over the top. I have never heard it referred to as the gold room The highest estimates I have ever found for its value are £300 million and $500 million, which are in the same ball park and well short of a billion euros. They are also a lot more than was claimed when I was there in 2012 (by a Russian guide, they are not prone to understatement).
The original 'room', meaning the amber panels. were probably destroyed by the RAF. It might have been the advancing Red Army that destroyed them , but the Russians prefer to blame us.
Cheers
Steve


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## GrauGeist (Aug 26, 2016)

stona said:


> I've seen the reconstructed AMBER ROOM in the Catherine Palace. It is a beautiful room, if a little extravagant and over the top. I have never heard it referred to as the gold room The highest estimates I have ever found for its value are £300 million and $500 million, which are in the same ball park and well short of a billion euros. They are also a lot more than was claimed when I was there in 2012 (by a Russian guide, they are not prone to understatement).
> The original 'room', meaning the amber panels. were probably destroyed by the RAF. It might have been the advancing Red Army that destroyed them , but the Russians prefer to blame us.
> Cheers
> Steve


I don't have the article on hand, but recent research has found an abandoned German bunker in Poland that has a large concealed chamber that may be the location of the Amber Room. Eyewitnesses did state that SS was seen unloading a great deal of material into it as the Red Army was advancing.

When I get a little more time, I'll go back and look for the recent article.


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## Gnomey (Aug 26, 2016)

Not hugely surprised...


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## stona (Aug 26, 2016)

We know where the amber was towards the end of the war. I saw the claims about the secret bunker in a newspaper today. It has all the usual stuff, the ex Nazi (is there such a thing?) who claims he saw trucks unloading, the geo-radar so popular in the search for buried Spitfires, Nazi trains and now lost amber, none of which inspires me with confidence. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but we'll see 
Cheers
Steve


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## ww2restorer (Aug 26, 2016)

Agreed the value stated in most references is around $500 to $800 million, however this is based on the gold leaf known to be used in the Russian replica wall now in place. The original were amber panels gilded with gold, being 1700s, the gold would have been beaten flat, much thicker than modern day leaf. Yes I have seen this also and can only imagine the real thing viewed in candle light as it was designed to be viewed. Modern lighting doesn't do it justice.


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## ww2restorer (Aug 26, 2016)

Capt. Vick said:


> Whoa, next time I'll just keep my pasta hole shut.


Nothing you said, sir.


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## ww2restorer (Aug 26, 2016)

there have been many claims over the years of the amber room(gold room) being found, I believe before this train possibility, there were some searchers looking in Germany at some old SS bunkers, about 2010?


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## Capt. Vick (Aug 26, 2016)

I remember a small panel from the original amber room was found a while back. I wonder why they were not able to track it back from that.

I also remember reading somewhere that the original recipient of the amber room was not exactly enamored with it and gave it away. Is this true or did I just make it up?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 26, 2016)

Capt. Vick said:


> Whoa, next time I'll just keep my pasta hole shut.



I think he was referring more to Grau Geist and myself.

Not cool either way...


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## GrauGeist (Aug 26, 2016)

Jim, the Amber Room was a gift to Tsar Peter (the Great) of Russia from Kaiser Frederick William I of Prussia, the Russians seemed to like it well enough to have it installed in their summer palace.

The Amber Room's last known and verified location, was in Königsberg, early 1945.


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## Capt. Vick (Aug 27, 2016)

My bad. I thought it went through an intermediary before the Tsar's got it.


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## Thorlifter (Aug 27, 2016)

I think a lot.....well, maybe some of the lost art/gold/money/etc can be traced. But some of the people who are in charge do not want it traced because it's already been found and "distributed" accordingly. Lot's of greed and corruption is in play when you are talking about the amounts of money and desire to own precious objects.

I will admit I would be VERY tempted to hang on to a few pieces if I were in the position to lay my sticky fingers on them.


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## Paul Allen (Aug 27, 2016)

GrauGeist said:


> By the way, your lame attempt at a reply brought up a good point.
> 
> Your smartass comment about wiki is a nice little dig, but we don't usually use it here. But in your case, you might try wiki to learn more about the Bernsteinzimmer - it has pictures so you can keep up.


I believe that I can keep up even without pictures but I will not put sexy pictures of me on the my name.


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## GrauGeist (Aug 27, 2016)

Paul Allen said:


> I believe that I can keep up even without pictures but I will not put sexy pictures of me on the my name.


Uh...what?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 27, 2016)

Say what?


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## Thorlifter (Aug 28, 2016)

I think someone created a new user account to make a statement about.........something?!?!?!?!?

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## GrauGeist (Aug 28, 2016)

Dunno man...I was actually waiting to hear that they have great deals on Oakley sunglasses or something


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## ww2restorer (Aug 28, 2016)

not me, bad enough dealing with the regulars.


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## Thorlifter (Aug 28, 2016)

WW2Restorer, 

Look man, you are a smart guy. You know many things about the topics we discuss, probably more than me and many others and I appreciate your input------when it's on topic. Just some friendly advice......

You need to chill on the snarky comments. Taking direct or backhanded shots at "the regulars" isn't the best way to positively influence others and make friends. You may not intend for it to be that way, but it is coming across like that. We have different opinions about many different topics and we can discuss them all length, but don't be so smug.

Just my two cents......


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## ww2restorer (Aug 28, 2016)

Thorlifter said:


> WW2Restorer,
> 
> Look man, you are a smart guy. You know many things about the topics we discuss, probably more than me and many others and I appreciate your input------when it's on topic. Just some friendly advice......
> 
> ...


My friend, I have no idea what you are on about. My comment was in reference to the mystery post of Mr Allen. I am chilled and post legit information. If you look back at the replies I received it was NOT me that started any abuse and I have not abused anyone. You need to address these folks that don't read or comprehend a post that jump in the deep end and call people names. FWI with that disputed post was made I was in the air at 30,000ft and 18 hours ahead of your time zone and the time of the post . I stand by my post, and have never said anything to offend you.


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## GrauGeist (Aug 28, 2016)

ww2restorer said:


> I am chilled and post legit information. If you look back at the replies I received it was NOT me that started any abuse and I have not abused anyone. You need to address these folks that don't read or comprehend a post that jump in the deep end and call people names.


You corrected a member with an incorrect (not legit) term, you were called out on it...

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## ww2restorer (Aug 28, 2016)

All right, the Amber room is not the golden room, I am going to get on the internet and tell them to change all their references. The panels are amber covered in gold, I am so very sorry I called out the most expensive part of the room and it upset so many perfectionists.


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## Thorlifter (Aug 28, 2016)

See, you keep on doing it.

_bad enough dealing with the regulars
upset so many perfectionists
I don't care who you are, you really show your limit of any knowledge and manners
keep up my friend, will leave you in the dust
(reference your favourite research site , wiki)_

Comment after comment. I'm done. Tried to give a little advise and get shooshed away. You are on your own to deal with "the regulars"

Yes, shooshed is a real word, at least in the south it is! LOL


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## XBe02Drvr (Aug 28, 2016)

I enjoy reading and occasionally posting here, and keep learning new and fascinating stuff, but honestly, sometimes you guys sound like kindergarteners arguing over a game of marbles.

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## Shinpachi (Aug 28, 2016)

Is not there the Golden Room beside the Amber Room in the Catherine's Palace ?
Sorry if I'm wrong.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 28, 2016)

ww2restorer said:


> All right, the Amber room is not the golden room, I am going to get on the internet and tell them to change all their references. The panels are amber covered in gold, I am so very sorry I called out the most expensive part of the room and it upset so many perfectionists.



Prediminately the main pieces are Amber. The room is therefor known as the "Bernsteinzimmer" which translates to "Amber Room".

That is what it is reffered to be scholars, the Germans and the Russians alike.

Perfectionist? Quit with your insulting snide comments and cheap shots. In a forum that discusses historical accuracies, would you expect that? 

I guess you are still planning on leaving us in the dust huh?


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## stona (Aug 28, 2016)

Shinpachi said:


> Is not there the Golden Room beside the Amber Room in the Catherine's Palace ?
> Sorry if I'm wrong.



The series of state rooms, designed by Rastrelli, is sometimes called the Golden Enfilade. This includes the Great Hall (Hall of Light) and Amber Room among others. I don't remember a room specifically called the Golden Room.

The reason the Nazis took the amber panels to Konigsberg for display is because the initial amber panels were originally intended for an Amber Cabinet at Konigsberg Castle. They were never used for this because they were presented to Peter the Great by Friedrich Wilhelm I of Prussia (the Soldier King) and formed the basis of the Amber Room along with considerably more amber, the famous gilded carving and gem stone mosaics. 
I imagine that using typically perverted Nazi logic the Germans were simply returning the panels to their rightful home!

Cheers

Steve

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 28, 2016)

Quit being so perfectionist...


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## ww2restorer (Aug 28, 2016)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Prediminately the main pieces are Amber. The room is therefor known as the "Bernsteinzimmer" which translates to "Amber Room".
> 
> That is what it is reffered to be scholars, the Germans and the Russians alike.
> 
> ...


Sir, being a forum that discusses historical accuracies, I 100% agree. As you know this site also has thousands of what ifs, could haves and should haves. I do not see you cautioning them with their non historic material. I made the mistake of using Google and searched for "the Golden room in St Petersburg", which in turn, returned to me 760,000 hits on the topic, including the above mentioned famous rooms at the Summer Palace. I have written to Google to ask them to change their search engine to be more accurate.
Respectfully, I have not insulted anyone, as a moderator the insult of smartass was released by yourself, along with others, which it totally unprofessional. Their is nothing snide or insulting about stating ones perfectionism, it means they demand every perfect, it is definitely not an insult, smartass is!!! As I asked another poster, let it go I will not post any further as your forum cannot accept any information that is not posted by your select group of model makers. I shall find a real forum that lives up to its historic purpose.
cheers.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 28, 2016)

ww2restorer said:


> Sir, being a forum that discusses historical accuracies, I 100% agree. As you know this site also has thousands of what ifs, could haves and should haves. I do not see you cautioning them with their non historic material. I made the mistake of using Google and searched for "the Golden room in St Petersburg", which in turn, returned to me 760,000 hits on the topic, including the above mentioned famous rooms at the Summer Palace. I have written to Google to ask them to change their search engine to be more accurate.
> Respectfully, I have not insulted anyone, as a moderator the insult of smartass was released by yourself, along with others, which it totally unprofessional. Their is nothing snide or insulting about stating ones perfectionism, it means they demand every perfect, it is definitely not an insult, smartass is!!! As I asked another poster, let it go I will not post any further as your forum cannot accept any information that is not posted by your select group of model makers. I shall find a real forum that lives up to its historic purpose.
> cheers.



Go back and read your posts. You sir, are being talked to in a like minded manner.

No one is keeping you here.

If you have something to offer, then by all means do so. We don't want to see you go, but if you go back and follow the whole conversation you will see it was your choice of words that started this.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 28, 2016)

ww2 restorer

Start with your post 13 and then read on. You were corrected on something you were wrong on, and responded with an attitude.

The posters responded in kind. 

When someone is typically corrected, they admit it, say thanks and move on. 

At least those of us who do not pretend to know everything do.

Just can it with the attitude, and everyone can get along.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 28, 2016)

On a side note.

I don't have anything against you personally. Neither does anyone else here. You bring something of value to the forum, as do all of our members.

I will however respond to an attitude with a like attitude.


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## stona (Sep 21, 2016)

Well, for those of you disappointed by the lack of a Nazi treasure train, Burmese Spitfires, Aussie Merlins or Lancasters buried in Birmingham, we now have another nutter with ground penetrating radar claiming to have found Hitler's long lost atomic bombs!

A pensioner says he's found Hitler's hidden nuclear bombs

I won't be holding my breath, or stocking up the nuclear bunker, on the back of this one. I think I may have seen the missing panel of the Ghent altarpiece at the back of my shed, so I shall be focusing on finding that. It's more likely than this daft old buffer having found Nazi nuclear weapons 

Cheers

Steve

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## Thorlifter (Sep 21, 2016)

In your shed, huh? And........where do you live again?

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## stona (Sep 21, 2016)

My great aunt's chauffer's friend's nephew once visited Belgium, and although I can't prove he ever went to Ghent, It seems highly probable that he came across the altarpiece whilst ordering a bowl of 'moules frites' in a restaurant somewhere else in Belgium. From there it is blindingly obvious how it came to be in the UK and subsequently my shed 
Without this kind of solid provenance the art trade would probably collapse 
Cheers
Steve

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## yulzari (Sep 23, 2016)

Many years ago I was in an art restorers workshop when a customer came in with a framed old print. He told the restorer that it would be worth more should it have the artists signature on the edge and wanted it carefully removed from the frame (it had fixed itself to the glass, hence the need for a restorer). The restorer agreed and asked where on the print would he like him to find it?................... That day I learned all I needed about the art trade.

Another time I was at a racing car rebuilder who referred to a chassis he was asked to rebuild as a 'rare example from a production run of 7 of which only 18 survive'.............. Those familiar with the Quartermasters solution to a missing deckchair will understand how one can restore a car from a chassis with new suspension: and a new chassis with original suspension etc.


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