# Britishness



## The Basket (Sep 26, 2007)

What is your view on the UK today? Since this is a world forum, it would be interesting to hear your views.

I won't take offence....Honest!


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## SoD Stitch (Sep 26, 2007)

I would love to be British! They are much classier than Americans. My wife I are Anglophiles, so if we could move to Britain and live there for the rest of our lives, we would be very happy. I suppose most of that has to do with the fact that we are students of history, British history in particular (I specialize in the so-called "Dark Ages" and early Middle Ages, she prefers the late Middle Ages/Elizabethan era), so we would love to live where all of that history actually took place. The best overseas trip we ever took was when we stopped over in London on our way to Norway; got to see Windsor and Madame Tussauds.


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## ToughOmbre (Sep 26, 2007)

SoD Stitch said:


> I would love to be British! They are much classier than Americans. My wife I are Anglophiles, so if we could move to Britain and live there for the rest of our lives, we would be very happy.



To my British friends...This post is in no way meant to reflect negatively on your great country.

SoD

"Classier" ??? That's a matter of opinion and I strongly doubt you could prove that.

Two questions...

1) Aren't you happy here?

2) When are you moving?

TO


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 26, 2007)

I have many friends in England and have been to many places in England and all over the UK many times. 

I have nothing against the British and have allways considered them great people (except when Germany is playing them in football....2-1 TAKE THAT WEMBLEY!!!! ).


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 26, 2007)

ToughOmbre said:


> "Classier" ??? That's a matter of opinion and I strongly doubt you could prove that.



I really dont want to get involved because I agree with you. I dont think you can base who is classiest off what nation they come from, but can you prove him wrong since you say he cant prove it?


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## ccheese (Sep 26, 2007)

TO... you're a hard man ..... Horse-sh!t and gunsmoke ! Tell it like it is !

I have visited England..... Southampton by ship and London by air.
I like the country, but can't stand your damned weather !

I think I'll stay in the US.

Charles


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## Marcel (Sep 26, 2007)

The Basket said:


> What is your view on the UK today? Since this is a world forum, it would be interesting to hear your views.
> 
> I won't take offence....Honest!



I'll let you know in 2 weeks. Next week, on Friday, the wife and I 'll take the nightboat and will be staying in London for a week. First holiday without the kid (I have a 3 year old boy).
The only time I really spend a long time in your country was when I was hiking in Scotland for a few weeks, some 6 years ago. Man I really loved it there. Still want to go back.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 26, 2007)

I hope to go back to England and then Ireland next year for a few weeks with the wife again.


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## comiso90 (Sep 26, 2007)

Brits:

On the plus
Funniest people on the planet (best sense of humor(humour) that is)
Very interesting history
Great music
I've spent about 2 weeks there - I like the people
I'm happy to have them as an ally
British women like American men

Not so plus
Tony Blair was a brainless Bush-stroking lackey
Unspectacular food
Unspectacular teeth
Get over the Monarchy! Spend the money elsewhere!
I haven't forgiven them for burning Washington DC

..you said u wouldn't get angry!!!!

.


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## ToughOmbre (Sep 26, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I really dont want to get involved because I agree with you. I dont think you can base who is classiest off what nation they come from, but can you prove him wrong since you say he cant prove it?



No, and that's my point. Something as nebulous as "who's classier, Americans or Brits" could *never* (IMHO) be proved, one way or the other. And for that reason it's something that probably should be left unsaid. I've got no problem with anyone who loves England; I hope like heck to get there someday myself.

But as Charles said, I tell it like it is. No offense intended to anyone.  

TO


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## SoD Stitch (Sep 26, 2007)

ToughOmbre said:


> To my British friends...This post is in no way meant to reflect negatively on your great country.
> 
> SoD
> 
> ...



Yes, it is definitely a matter of opinion, I never stated otherwise (I don't think); and, yes, I am happy here, I still feel the US is the greatest country on earth (even with all of it's problems).

As for when I'm moving, probably never; but a guy can dream, can't he?


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## ToughOmbre (Sep 26, 2007)

SoD Stitch said:


> Yes, it is definitely a matter of opinion, I never stated otherwise (I don't think); and, yes, I am happy here, I still feel the US is the greatest country on earth (even with all of it's problems).
> 
> As for when I'm moving, probably never; but a guy can dream, can't he?



SoD,

See my reply to Adler below. That's where I'm coming from. Again, no offense intended.

TO


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## SoD Stitch (Sep 26, 2007)

ToughOmbre said:


> SoD,
> 
> See my reply to Adler below. That's where I'm coming from. Again, no offense intended.
> 
> TO



None taken . . thanks for your honesty, that's a rare thing these days.


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## Matt308 (Sep 26, 2007)

Pros - Love their dry humour, our long standing alliance (God I hope it continues), beautiful countryside, common background/beliefs/direction, historical architecture is both fascinating and gorgeous, the fact that we have more in common than not, and finally I would like to think that either side would come to the others aid in time of need and even if at great cost. I can't say that but for only a couple of other countries (Australia and Canada).

Cons - Your obsession with royalty looks as stupid as the US obsession with Hollywood, an influx of socialists worries me that our politics may diverge to a precipitous point, ratifying the EU constitution will misdirect your priorities, catering to muslim extremists in your mist will upset yours (and our) economy, sometimes Brits come across as haughy and holier than thou.


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## Marcel (Sep 26, 2007)

ToughOmbre said:


> No, and that's my point. Something as nebulous as "who's classier, Americans or Brits" could *never* (IMHO) be proved, one way or the other. And for that reason it's something that probably should be left unsaid. I've got no problem with anyone who loves England; I hope like heck to get there someday myself.
> 
> But as Charles said, I tell it like it is. No offense intended to anyone.
> 
> TO



Ah well, classier is very generally said. I've met some classy Americans (yes I really have  ) and British tourists are notorious here in Europe for their manners and drinking, no offence as this is just a general feeling here, in reality it's probably a small minority. 
But why do you think all this is better left unsaid when it is only an expression of a point of view, TO? You probably think the US is the greatest country in the world (I'm assuming here) and right you should as it's your country. That's not a fact (well, maybe for Americans  ), but a point of view.


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## ToughOmbre (Sep 26, 2007)

Marcel said:


> Ah well, classier is very generally said. I've met some classy Americans (yes I really have  ) and British tourists are notorious here in Europe for their manners and drinking, no offence as this is just a general feeling here, in reality it's probably a small minority.
> But why do you think all this is better left unsaid when it is only an expression of a point of view, TO? You probably think the US is the greatest country in the world (I'm assuming here) and right you should as it's your country. That's not a fact (well, maybe for Americans  ), but a point of view.



Marcel,

First of all, you're correct, I do think that, as an American, the USA is the greatest country in the world. And I would hope that the citizens of other countries feel the same way about their respective nations. But you will never see me come on this forum and say "My country is greater than your country". My problem was with the following quote by SoD "They are much classier than Americans". That is what can be left unsaid. IMO Brits and Americans are *BOTH* classy. My major point is that a compliment can be made to a certain group (in this case the Brits) without reflecting negatively on another (Americans).

Hope this makes some sense. I can't say it any clearer.

Respectfully, 

TO


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## Marcel (Sep 26, 2007)

ToughOmbre said:


> Marcel,
> 
> First of all, you're correct, I do think that, as an American, the USA is the greatest country in the world. And I would hope that the citizens of other countries feel the same way about their respective nations. But you will never see me come on this forum and say "My country is greater than your country". My problem was with the following quote by SoD "They are much classier than Americans". That is what can be left unsaid. IMO Brits and Americans are *BOTH* classy. My major point is that a compliment can be made to a certain group (in this case the Brits) without reflecting negatively on another (Americans).
> 
> ...



It does TO. You mean if he'd said something like "I think the British are very classy" it would have been better and that's probably what was meant.

By the way, I believe The Netherlands is the greatest country in the world. Unfortunately, it's only a small minority thinking the same


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## Udet (Sep 26, 2007)

SoD:

Just curious...have you visited England recently?

Talk about the Chav invasion; also you might witness Cockneys and other London specimens happily engaged in sexual activity in back alleys, yes, by the side of garbage containers possibly with rats as companions, also sex in parks at night; it is as common as salt and pepper on the table.

I do not recall seeing anything like this in cities like New York, Boston, Chicago, Phoenix or Dallas.

Also Elton John is a Knight...what a disgrace...i´d like to know the opinion of Sir Francis Drake on this particular matter.


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## Lucky13 (Sep 26, 2007)

Udet said:


> SoD: Also Elton John is a Knight...what a disgrace...i´d like to know the opinion of Sir Francis Drake on this particular matter.


 He'd say !!!


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## SoD Stitch (Sep 26, 2007)

Udet said:


> SoD:
> 
> Just curious...have you visited England recently?
> 
> ...



No, I have not been to the British Isles in about 15 years; I guess things have changed since then. I don't remember seeing anything like that when I was in Kensington.

TO Marcel: You are correct; it probably would've been better if I hadn't compared the British to anybody else, let alone Americans. But I am an American so, in a way, I was insulting myself. I had not intended to insult my fellow Americans, but apparently I have. For that, I apologize, no insult was intended.


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## comiso90 (Sep 26, 2007)

SoD Stitch said:


> NI had not intended to insult my fellow Americans, but apparently I have. For that, I apologize, no insult was intended.



I thought I'd get flak for calling Blair a "Bush Stroking lackey"

You kept people busy... Thanks for the deflection!


,


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## Marcel (Sep 26, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> I thought I'd get flak for calling Blair a "Bush Stroking lackey"
> 
> You kept people busy... Thanks for the deflection!
> 
> ...



Well, he is!


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## SoD Stitch (Sep 26, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> I thought I'd get flak for calling Blair a "Bush Stroking lackey"
> 
> You kept people busy... Thanks for the deflection!
> 
> ...



No problem! And I wasn't even trying!


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## The Basket (Sep 26, 2007)

Marcel said:


> Well, he is!



He was 

The Elton John thing was based on the Princess Di song he did.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 26, 2007)

Udet said:


> I do not recall seeing anything like this in cities like New York, Boston, Chicago, Phoenix or Dallas.



Then you have not been looking...



London and other large cities in England are no different than any cities anywhere else in the world.


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## Matt308 (Sep 26, 2007)

Isn't that a fact. The scum of the earth are located in big cities. Put enough rats in a cage and eventually they begin to eat themselves.


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## mkloby (Sep 26, 2007)

SoD Stitch said:


> Yes, it is definitely a matter of opinion, I never stated otherwise (I don't think); and, yes, I am happy here, I still feel the US is the greatest country on earth (even with all of it's problems).
> 
> As for when I'm moving, probably never; but a guy can dream, can't he?



Just out of curiosity - why couldn't you move there? It's perfectly possible...


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## Matt308 (Sep 26, 2007)

Put it on Craigslist. Some dumbass would probably pay your way.


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## Lucky13 (Sep 27, 2007)

Well, I stay north of the border from "THEM". Read somewhere once that, if you survive in Glasgow, you'll survive anywhere. I don't know about that, I like the place and the people, that's why stayed here instead for moving back to Sweden, after that me and my ex broke up......


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## trackend (Sep 27, 2007)

An outside view of any nation always varies from those of the indigenous populace.
This is purely caused by cultural differences, up till now for my own part I have never been to any country that does not display the full gambit from total arseholes to great people, and from wonderful sites to real dumps its the way of the world and as far as I'm concerned it would be a really boring existence if we were all the same.
Over all I have found 99% of people have the same goals in life and the little digs we have at each other are very superficial (our British teeth are improving by the way, hows your US obesity). Some go a bit over the top but thats what freedom of speech will throw up once in a while.
I will just add that although travel (mainly flight) has improved the average persons own knowledge of other nations. IMO it has made for very eclectic nations with large immigrant sections and this huge variety of ethnic diversity has watered down the original and unique flavour of most nations which I think is a shame.


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## Parmigiano (Sep 27, 2007)

ToughOmbre said:


> Marcel,
> 
> IMO Brits and Americans are *BOTH* classy. My major point is that a compliment can be made to a certain group (in this case the Brits) without reflecting negatively on another (Americans).
> 
> ...




.. and so which other population group is NOT classy? Are you implying that ONLY Brits and Gringos are classy ?   

Making comparisons is fair, and if you make comparisons one of the 'groups' is likely ranking lower than the other... but this is not by definition an offense 

I.e. - Americans are much more proactive than Italians
- Italians have much better food habit than Americans

Both statements are sustainable, but is the first statement offensive for Italians and the second offensive for Americans? 
(regardless if any is true or not, this is not the point)


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## ToughOmbre (Sep 27, 2007)

Parmigiano said:


> .. and so which other population group is NOT classy? Are you implying that ONLY Brits and Gringos are classy ?



That's not the implication at all.  


Parmigiano said:


> Making comparisons is fair, and if you make comparisons one of the 'groups' is likely ranking lower than the other... but this is not by definition an offense
> 
> I.e. - Americans are much more proactive than Italians
> - Italians have much better food habit than Americans
> ...



Neither of those statements are offensive to me.

TO


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## Clave (Sep 29, 2007)

Great things about Britain:

Stonehenge
Swearing
Dr Who
Pubs
History
Buildings
Green Fields
Monty Python
Weird People
The BBC
No Dangerous Animals
No Dangerous Weather
Winding Country Roads
Sarcasm
Irony
Ice Cream Vans
Punk
Led Zeppelin
The London Eye
Queueing
Funny Ethnic Mixtures
The Hovercraft
Abandoned Cold War Sites
Comedians in Drag
Roundabouts
Having a 'Fag'
Milk Delivered to Your Door

Not So Great:

Chavs
Pompous Art Critics
Reality TV
Cooks on TV
Waiting to see a Doctor
Newspapers like the Sport
Tuned Hatchbacks like Vauxhall Novas
Anarchists
Scottish Prime Ministers
Public Transport
The M25


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## Parmigiano (Sep 29, 2007)

Add to the 'greats'

- Beatles
- Old Spiders (MG B, Spitfire)
- QUAD ESL 
- Michell Gyrodek
- Bitter Ale

Add to the 'Bads'

- Old Spiders (why did they put tractor engines in such neat little cars?)
- Food (with some remerkab le exception)


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## The Basket (Sep 29, 2007)

What's wrong with Scottish prime ministers?

Not anti scottish?


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## Matt308 (Sep 29, 2007)

Hmmm. All the complaints sound like the US.


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## DOUGRD (Sep 30, 2007)

I agree with Matt (see Post #14) on this one especially the "Pro's" catagory. I spent a few days in Portsmouth back in 1981 and partied with the RN at HMS Dadelus. What a great bunch of people! I've also encountered members of the RN and RAF at a few other places around the globe and they always made me feel welcome we all had a good time. Lots of good memories!


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## Clave (Sep 30, 2007)

The Basket said:


> What's wrong with Scottish prime ministers?
> 
> Not anti scottish?



Definitely not! I love Scotland, and have been there many times, but there is something about Gordon Brown that enrages me - it's that whole 'we know better than you' thing. I just hated his budgets when he was Chancellor - it was all aimed at penalising motorists, smokers, and beer drinkers - and you just _know_ he is that Puritanical sort who would ban dancing if he could..

I just see the next few years as being dull, sensible, and 'prudent' under the rule of this charmless git...


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## The Basket (Sep 30, 2007)

yeah he not charm but I would prefer Brown anyday over King Tony.

Nothing wrong with Prudence.


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## mkloby (Sep 30, 2007)

I think I've told this story before. We had a company of RM come to MCB Quantico a couple years ago. In the barracks there were large communal laundry rooms. Well some RM went to the laundry room, took their cammies off and put them in the wash, and walked back to their rooms naked.

Friggen hilarious - but a female saw it and got offended... so they had to be informed to not walk around the barracks naked.


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## The Basket (Sep 30, 2007)

Why was she offended?

Nothing wrong with the British wang.


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## Lucky13 (Sep 30, 2007)

Could it be the HUGE size...?


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## lesofprimus (Sep 30, 2007)

Contrary to popular British opinion, studies conducted by both Oxford University and the Vatican have concluded that the average British penis is ranked the second shortest in the world, just a slight bit longer than the shortest of them all, the Japanese, and just a weeeee bit shorter than the Frenchies...


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## ToughOmbre (Sep 30, 2007)




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## Lucky13 (Sep 30, 2007)

Glad to see that you're penetrating deep into this matter Les....


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## lesofprimus (Sep 30, 2007)

Great comeback Lucky....


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## Lucky13 (Sep 30, 2007)

Anything to impress you Les.... How's tricks mate?


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## lesofprimus (Sep 30, 2007)

Actually quite well, thanks for askin....


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## Lucky13 (Sep 30, 2007)

Anytime mate....good to see hoovering around the forum.


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## Downwind.Maddl-Land (Oct 3, 2007)

> the average British penis is ranked the second shortest in the world



Hardly surprising with our weather!  



> and just a weeeee bit shorter than the Frenchies



Now that’s enough! Our willies are NEVER smaller than a Frenchman’s…. And! We still have 2 fingers to draw the Longbow, Pierre! 

Anyway it ain't wot you got, its the way that you use it!


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## lesofprimus (Oct 3, 2007)

My wife just came in, read over my shoulder, and said "Size DOES matter.."

A womans opinion...


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## Downwind.Maddl-Land (Oct 3, 2007)

I KNEW it!


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## Matt308 (Oct 3, 2007)

I envisioned that exclamation in a high timbre.


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## ccheese (Oct 3, 2007)

lesofprimus said:


> My wife just came in, read over my shoulder, and said "Size DOES matter.."
> A womans opinion...



That was my problem, all my life. I'm heavier now (at 135 lbs) than I
have ever been. Just how do you drive a railroad spike with a tack-hammer
butt ? 

Charles


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## Matt308 (Oct 3, 2007)

Eeeew... 

I think your middle ear infection is affecting your judgement.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 4, 2007)

It has been said that horses are hung like me....


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## mkloby (Oct 4, 2007)

hehehe


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## The Basket (Oct 4, 2007)

Well...any guy from the Vatican wouldn't last in these parts...certainly need his running shoes on!

Not sure about size but I certainly hope that our history has shown we have big cajones!


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## Lucky13 (Oct 4, 2007)

Anyone with a death wish mess with the Scots, right basket?


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## lesofprimus (Oct 4, 2007)

Pfft on the Scots, they wear skirts.... Not the scariest of combatants...


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## The Basket (Oct 4, 2007)

Never get between a Scotsman and his pint!

Nothing wrong with the Scots...but add booze and stand a safe distance. Jeckell and Hyde stuff.

I still don't get the transformation.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 4, 2007)

I take it that you know what you're talking about Les, wearing skirts and all that I mean..... Kilts are good though, when you need to get ready for "combat" with the ladies....right basket?


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## lesofprimus (Oct 4, 2007)

Lucky, female sheep DO NOT constitute "ladies" my friend...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 4, 2007)

Well Lucky's motto has allways been:







I think Lucky and Lanc would have gotten along just fine!


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## lesofprimus (Oct 4, 2007)

Hell, I wouldnt be surprised if Lucky worked on Lancs farm at one time....


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Oct 4, 2007)

I think a lot of British are "Jolly Good Fellows!"

In many ways, their cheery upbeat way can still remind you of Dickens or something.


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## Negative Creep (Oct 4, 2007)

To be honest, one of the things that does annoy me about being British is the way we are represented. Every time I seem to catch a British character on some terminally unfunny American sitcom they always talk in the bizarre tone as if they were a 1930's aristocrat. Needless to say that I've never heard used here! Trivial perhaps, but what is more serious is our control freak government, where everything is being taxed under the 'green' mantra, activities are being restricted by the PC brigade and an electoral system that just leaves me feeling completely alienated. On the other hand, we do seem a pretty tolerant people where you don't get the racial or social problems that occur in certain other countries, a really interesting history and some fairly decent TV!


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## Matt308 (Oct 4, 2007)

I'll echo the history. That's as far as I'm going however.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 5, 2007)

I'm not the one that gives the sheep a sheepish grin by acting sheepish.... Good one though Les and Adler.


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## Aussie1001 (Oct 5, 2007)

Pomes are ok... wouldn't mind living there ...  
Even though i am in the best country in the world......


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## The Basket (Oct 5, 2007)

I am an Englishman living in Scotland so the kilt is a total mystery to me as well.

Hey Aussie...might rain here later!


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## Negative Creep (Oct 5, 2007)

Not to mention we're rubbish at sports, even the ones we invented!


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## Matt308 (Oct 5, 2007)




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## Lucky13 (Oct 5, 2007)

Cricket, Rugby....?


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## Lucky13 (Oct 6, 2007)




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## Ghostdancer (Oct 6, 2007)

I'd like to say that I visited the UK twenty years ago and enjoyed it tremendously; especially Scotland, take note Basket. 

Gee, I wonder what is really in Loch Ness. One of my stops.


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 6, 2007)

A whole lot of water. 

Nice country though.


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## Ghostdancer (Oct 6, 2007)

Nonskimmer said:


> A whole lot of water.
> 
> Nice country though.



Well yeah, nearly 1,000 ft. at it's deepest point. Yes it is nice country, would loved to have camped there. Loch Lomond, that's a beautiful spot as well. 8)


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 6, 2007)

It is indeed. I liked hiking the trails around there and a few other parts of the central lowlands, as well as up around Inverness. I used to think Nova Scotia got a lot of rain, until I visited Scotland. 

Seriously though, beautiful country.


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## Downwind.Maddl-Land (Oct 14, 2007)

> Quote:
> and just a weeeee bit shorter than the Frenchies
> 
> Now that’s enough! Our willies are NEVER smaller than a Frenchman’s…. And! We still have 2 fingers to draw the Longbow, Pierre!



More importantly, we still stuffed the Froggies at Rugby last night - now who's got the smaller willies?

(And to our Antipodean colleagues: JOLLY hard luck old man, jolly hard luck!)


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## Matt308 (Oct 14, 2007)

"Antipodean"


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## Negative Creep (Oct 14, 2007)

Well, I'm glad to say that I am being proved wrong about the 'rubbish at sports' comment!


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## Instal (Oct 17, 2007)

I think the Brits are amazing people. Can anyone think of another country that is that small in size and population that has had such an effect on human history? The list of accomplishments, inventions, and influence is staggering. The British people have much to be proud of not least of which is standing alone against the greatest evil the world has ever known. Well done!


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## pbfoot (Oct 17, 2007)

Instal said:


> I think the Brits are amazing people. Can anyone think of another country that is that small in size and population that has had such an effect on human history? The list of accomplishments, inventions, and influence is staggering. The British people have much to be proud of not least of which is standing alone against the greatest evil the world has ever known. Well done!


What Canada Poland Australia New Zealand South Africa Rhodesia weren't there in 40?


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## Instal (Oct 17, 2007)

Not in the kind of numbers that they would be later in the war. Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that it took the aforementioned countries quite some time to mobilise and get troops to where they were needed. I am quite sure the BEF (British Expeditionary Force) was made up of primarily British Regulars.


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## DOUGRD (Oct 17, 2007)

Instal said:


> Not in the kind of numbers that they would be later in the war. Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that it took the aforementioned countries quite some time to mobilise and get troops to where they were needed. I am quite sure the BEF (British Expeditionary Force) was made up of primarily British Regulars.



I really don't mean to sound like a smart ass here but let's not forget that "Dunkirk" was not a BEF victory.


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## Marcel (Oct 18, 2007)

Instal said:


> I think the Brits are amazing people. Can anyone think of another country that is that small in size and population that has had such an effect on human history? The list of accomplishments, inventions, and influence is staggering. The British people have much to be proud of not least of which is standing alone against the greatest evil the world has ever known. Well done!



Yeah, well we beated them at Chattam


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## merlin (Oct 18, 2007)

Having read all through - how come no-one's mentioned Wales!? It has the countryside, the mountains, the beaches, and the castles - how else were the English to control us!?

Many remark about the 'history' - which reminds me of the story of the American tourists who were overhead talking about Windsor Castle -
'Such a lovely place, but why did they put it so near to the airport?


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## lesofprimus (Oct 18, 2007)

Now thats just plain ignorant, and those moronic Americans should have been slapped across the face with a cold Cod....


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## renrich (Oct 18, 2007)

I have always had great respect for Great Britain and it's people. The history of the English Speaking People is a fabulous story and IMO they have been the most influential people in the world for a great many centuries. Without the endeavor and sacrifise of the English Speaking People the world would not be as good a place to live in today as it is. Having said that, I believe the US has been and still is the greatest nation on earth. Unfortunately we are gradually losing our greatness. Politically, we are following in the footsteps of Great Britain. Our political system is moving us gradually to the left as Britain's has. I believe that inexorable drift to the left will be the ruination of our nation. For those of us on this forum nearing the end of our years, our ancestors would not recognise the country we have become.


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## Marcel (Oct 18, 2007)

Don't be downhearted renrich. I don't agree. I think the US is still a country you can be proud of. Unlike you I don't think left wing politicics will ruin your country. I'm neither left nor right, but I think my country benefits from both influences, left and right. For many years, the socialist's party has been one of the biggest parties here and still I think my country is worth to be proud off. Left right, it always goes in waves, one time this, the other time that, in the end you should benefit from the best of all viewpoints. That's democracy, my friend.


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## CRASHGATE3 (Oct 18, 2007)

Interesting thread.....
Just a few things..
Me (and my family and friends) have got good teeth
I dont like the Royals (or Chavs)
There are some great people in this country and there are some dickheads..
There are some great places and there are some sh** holes...
If any of you want to visit ..come to Duxford or some such place and we can meet for a laugh and a drink..


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## DBII (Oct 18, 2007)

I think that everyone is more alike than we care to admit. I lift my glass to new friends on this net. May we all meet one day at a great airshow. 

DBII


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## renrich (Oct 18, 2007)

Marcel, with all due respect to you and your beliefs and opinions, I suspect that your idea of socialism and mine would not coincide. In other words, certain government functions you take for granted as necessary and proper I would denounce as pure collectivism. Be that as it may, our government in the US is and always has been drifting left. There is no ebb and flow. There are sometimes temporary slowdowns in our march to a socialistic state but we are steadily getting there. That is not to say that we don't have a great country. The fact that many people from all over the world want to come and live here proves that. Democracy is I believe the best form of government ever devised but it carries the seed of it's own destruction within it. Without a good, honest and enlightened electorate the people in a democracy will inevitably elect to office the politicians who promise them the most largesse. The only factor that has slowed our political move to the left is that the enlightened in our society tend to vote in higher numbers proportionately than do the unenlightened. Ironically FDR made a statement once when he was chided about his trust in Joseph Stalin. He said that in the long run we would become more like the Soviets and they would become more like us. They now have McDonalds just like we do.


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## CRASHGATE3 (Oct 18, 2007)

DBII said:


> I think that everyone is more alike than we care to admit. I lift my glass to new friends on this net. May we all meet one day at a great airshow.
> 
> DBII



Amen to that.....
Cheers


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## Marcel (Oct 19, 2007)

renrich said:


> Marcel, with all due respect to you and your beliefs and opinions, I suspect that your idea of socialism and mine would not coincide. In other words, certain government functions you take for granted as necessary and proper I would denounce as pure collectivism.


Very true, I think we debated this in another thread before.
But I still disagree on your statement that your country is loosing greatness. 
You do have a great country, independend of whatever government you have at the time. I've been there several times and I liked it.


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## comiso90 (Oct 19, 2007)

Marcel said:


> Very true, I think we debated this in another thread before.
> But I still disagree on your statement that your country is loosing greatness.
> You do have a great country, independend of whatever government you have at the time. I've been there several times and I liked it.



Perhaps this fodder for another thread but i believe that the information age is neutralizing many national identities. My country is great but the post WW2 wave it has been riding is waining. Great empires used to take centuries to decay... I fear that now great ideals may be outshouted in decades.

.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 19, 2007)

CRASHGATE3 said:


> Interesting thread.....
> Just a few things..
> Me (and my family and friends) have got good teeth
> I dont like the Royals (or Chavs)
> ...



You just described most countries on this planet.8)


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## plan_D (Oct 19, 2007)

I live in the recently voted 15th worst place to live in Britain, the H.I.V capital of Western Europe and once the heroin centre of Western Europe...

I love Britain.  

The great things of Britain are mostly in past - we used to be the greatest engineers in the world; the industrial revolution started with us; we've stood up against several maniacs throughout the centuries (Louis XIV, Napoleon, Hitler) and never given up; we ruled the oceans; we had the largest Empire in history...and I could go on. I don't know where this idea of bad food comes from; we eat EVERYTHING in Britain - all the worlds food is here, if you want to try it. And don't tell me our sunday lunch is bad. 

But now we're run by PC freaks, immigrants, leeches and druggies. This place is in constant decline and the worst thing about it is that people actually believe its getting better. The crime rate is rising and most people don't even report it because nothing will get done; so Brown tells us all that it's going down ! The justice system is all wrong, the immigration policy is all wrong, benefits system is all wrong - it's all wrong ! 

Unfortunately for me, I refuse to abandon it to the f*ckin' Sultan and the piss-ant Moors!


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## renrich (Oct 19, 2007)

Well said Comis but I call it the misinformation age. Plan D I understand your grief and rage at the path your home country is taking. My country has fallen directly into a trail position behind your country. I fear the only thing that can help us straighten out is some sort of catastrophe much much worse than 9-11, on the order of WW2.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 19, 2007)

Lesofprimus for President and PlanD for Prime Minister??


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## Marcel (Oct 19, 2007)

Lucky13 said:


> Lesofprimus for President and PlanD for Prime Minister??



I'll vote Lucky for president


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 19, 2007)

Can we include the Irish in this?

I have allways loved drinking with the Irish. Tonight I went down to the local Pub with my wife and there were a bunch of Irish in there. Had a merry time drinking Kilkenny, Guiness and Bush Mills and singing Irish Drinking Songs about the IRA! 

A merry time was had by all and dont forget the Whiskey in the Jarr-ooooooo!


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## The Basket (Oct 19, 2007)

The difference is the IRA drinking songs.

Can't imagine many Brits joining in.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 19, 2007)

Ah it was all in jest and fun.


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## Instal (Oct 19, 2007)

DOUGRD said:


> I really don't mean to sound like a smart ass here but let's not forget that "Dunkirk" was not a BEF victory.



I don't recall sying it was.


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## Njaco (Oct 19, 2007)

Gotta go with Merlin and say Wales would be a nice place. The language is intriguing.


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## DOUGRD (Oct 19, 2007)

Instal said:


> ... The British people have much to be proud of not least of which is standing alone against the greatest evil the world has ever known. Well done!





Instal said:


> Not in the kind of numbers that they would be later in the war. Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that it took the aforementioned countries quite some time to mobilise and get troops to where they were needed. I am quite sure the BEF (British Expeditionary Force) was made up of primarily British Regulars.



OK, I missed something here.


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## The Basket (Oct 20, 2007)

Njaco said:


> Gotta go with Merlin and say Wales would be a nice place. The language is intriguing.



interesting thing about Wales is the castles built by Edward I in the 1290s at great expense to conquer the Welsh. A welsh nationalist said to me that he is proud that the red dragon flies over the ruins and that the English are charged to enter their own castles!
Of course he is an ignorant welsh nationalist coz Edward I was Norman and not English.


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## Njaco (Oct 20, 2007)

One of the things I enjoy about the British is the Language. The economy of the spoken word - example: In the US we go to THE hospital, in UK its I went to Hospital or I went to THE University whereas in UK its I went to University. 

And its also has a lilt and softness sometimes. In US I get the wrench out of the trunk whereas in UK its the spanner in the bonnett. More poetic.


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## The Basket (Oct 20, 2007)

Its boot for trunk.
Bonnet for hood.
Petrol for gasoline.
Motorway for highway.
Bumper for fender. 
And we drive on the correct side of the road. True...see...in an accident...a person instinct goes left so in UK away from traffic...In USA head on to traffic. Its why carriers have the island always on the right as the aircraft lands.


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## DOUGRD (Oct 21, 2007)

The Basket said:


> Its boot for trunk.
> Bonnet for hood.
> Petrol for gasoline.
> Motorway for highway.
> ...



Good point! probably why the standard airport traffic pattern here in the US is left also.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 21, 2007)

Dont forget Fag for Cigarette.


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## Lucky13 (Oct 21, 2007)

and you all know what fanny is, right?


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## bigZ (Oct 21, 2007)

and a beaver is a large semiaquatic rodent with webbed hind feet and a broad flat tail; construct complex dams and underwater lodges. Can also mean to work hard on something.


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## renrich (Oct 21, 2007)

The Japanese carriers did not always have the island on the starboard side.


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## plan_D (Oct 21, 2007)

The greatest thing about the castles in Wales is the fact that they were more of a hinderance than a help to the English in holding down the Welsh; typical English of the day "We do it, because we can."

There's no denying the influence England - and the Great Britain, as a whole - had on the world. Great Britain as a nation is not what it used to be, the reputation has gone. And the British people ... well, I have seen nothing in recent times that shows me Britain would pull together in the event of another Blitz.


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## bigZ (Oct 21, 2007)

plan_D said:


> The greatest thing about the castles in Wales is the fact that they were more of a hinderance than a help to the English in holding down the Welsh; typical English of the day "We do it, because we can."
> 
> There's no denying the influence England - and the Great Britain, as a whole - had on the world. Great Britain as a nation is not what it used to be, the reputation has gone. And the British people ... well, I have seen nothing in recent times that shows me Britain would pull together in the event of another Blitz.



I think you maybe looking at are past with slightly rose tinted glasses. The strikes throughout the war by miners,aircraft engineers,dockers etc show that not everyone was content. Crime, social injustice, depravation where all at their highest as the British Empire hit its Golden age during the Victorian era. Given the choice I wouldn't want to be living during those times.


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## plan_D (Oct 21, 2007)

Those strikes are the exact reason I hate miners. All well and good for them to complain - call 'em up and kick them to the front bloody line. 

You are comparing Britain then, to the modern world. You think if the state of society back then was backed up with modern technology - the crime would be so high? Every c*nt who farted in front of the Queen would be getting hanged - we'd have bloody moniters to detect the silent ones so we could hang more. You wouldn't think of stealing a loaf of bread from a dead man 'cos you'd be shot. Only reason crime would be so high is 'cos most got away with it. 

And social injustice - hardly a freakin' surprise given the fact it was 100 years ago. I ain't looking through British history expecting clean streets and British sh*t smelling of roses ... but I look back through it and see a Britain with a purpose, something we don't have now.


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## bigZ (Oct 21, 2007)

The 'Bevin Boys' were conscripted miners. Walk a mile in another persons shoes before making a harsh judgement.

Plan you too made the comparison. I also just pointed out that not everyone was perhaps pulling for a common cause. 

I have no problem with the defence of Britain against the Nazi. As an ordinary person I could see no benifit to myself by supporting the expansion of the British Empire during the Victorian period.

"There were 30 million English who talked of England's might,
There were 20 broken troopers who lacked a bed for the night.
They had neither food nor money, they had neither service nor trade;
They were only shiftless soldiers, the last of the Light Brigade."

Kipling


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## plan_D (Oct 21, 2007)

I will carry on the harsh judgement of my father and, more importantly (for the time), my grandfather. While lads were on the frontlines, in the air and sailing the oceans to defend Great Britain - those down the mines went on strike - whichever way you cut it, it's a disgrace. 

The Victorian Era, and pre-Victorian, are different entirely from World War II - entirely for our defence. The common man still found pride in his nation; even when it came from hatred of another during the youth of England and Great Britain. 

You, with a modern mind, may not find it right to expand an Empire - but obviously people did back then. Probably for the money...and to get away from their screeching toothless wives!


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## CRASHGATE3 (Oct 21, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Ah it was all in jest and fun.



I'm a bit surprised Adler....the IRA killed many of our service men...
They also killed many policemen,women and children...( English and Irish )
Sorry to get heavy on this (I also like the Irish ) but the IRA were a terrorist organisation


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## Lucky13 (Oct 22, 2007)

Gentlemen, I don't think Adler said anything about if the songs were against or for the IRA, just songs about the them.....
I'm sure that he knows that IRA was a terrorist organisation....


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## CRASHGATE3 (Oct 22, 2007)

Yeh...point taken
I wasn't trying to be judgemental...and I know what its like being in a pub with Guiness and Whiskey..!


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## Lucky13 (Oct 22, 2007)

That's alright mate....I know how it is myself.....easy enough to get carried away.... Before when I was out in the delivery vans (thank God I'm not doing that anymore) I was every so often out with agency boys and/or drivers and I don't know how many times I've had to listen to IRA and UVF tapes in the cab.... To say that I was uncomfortable is an understatement.... Well, as an apology to those that have been in the middled of this I can only say as outsider I'll never understand how it was.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 22, 2007)

CRASHGATE3 said:


> I'm a bit surprised Adler....the IRA killed many of our service men...
> They also killed many policemen,women and children...( English and Irish )



The Irish were drunk and singing songs that had the words IRA in it. They were having a good time and frankly the whole pub was. 

No one was going "Hey lets sing songs about ****ing killing the British!"

"YEEEEAAAAHHHH"



CRASHGATE3 said:


> Sorry to get heavy on this (I also like the Irish ) but the IRA were a terrorist organisation



No ****, did I say I supported them?


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## comiso90 (Oct 22, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Ah it was all in jest and fun.



When will there be drinking songs about Al Qaeda?


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## The Basket (Oct 22, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> When will there be drinking songs about Al Qaeda?



Mooslims don't drink.

Whisky in the Jar is a cool song...someone said to Phil Lynott what's it like to be black and Irish...he said it was like being a pint of Guinness! Thin Lizzie rule!


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## CRASHGATE3 (Oct 22, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> No ****, did I say I supported them?



No you did not....
And I didn't mean to imply or think that you did.....
I apologise for misreading your post


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## comiso90 (Oct 22, 2007)

The Basket said:


> Mooslims don't drink.
> 
> Whisky in the Jar is a cool song...someone said to Phil Lynott what's it like to be black and Irish...he said it was like being a pint of Guinness! Thin Lizzie rule!




I was just making a point about how the IRA in all its brutality can be playfully woven into drinking songs, when will Al Qeda be a memory living only in songs and jokes..

Metallica - Whiskey In The Jar

I like this version:


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cswkEL1O4Hk_

.


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## The Basket (Oct 22, 2007)

Yeah but Metallica aint Irish.

Gotta be Irish to do Irish folk songs proper. Hidden meanin and all dat.

Kinda terrorism related as the song is about shooting and robbing people.

I was been humour with ya Comiso. That suppose to be big in UK...humour, see?

I have a noo thingy...the English language...the greatest gift to the world. People may be speaking French otherways and that would be awful. Don't mind Spanish so much. Wish I could speak it better but not much call for it.


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## comiso90 (Oct 22, 2007)

The Basket said:


> I was been humour with ya Comiso. That suppose to be big in UK...humour, see?
> .



The problem is that you spell it wrong... thats why I didnt catch it...

its humor not humour....


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## The Basket (Oct 22, 2007)

Is your spell checker working there Comiso? Seemed to have got one passed. That would be a red cross on my spelling test.

Habor...tumor...color...armor...

And I thought you Americanos spoke the English!


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## mkloby (Oct 22, 2007)

I'm an outsider, but just to point out - the IRA did not always function the way it did in the latter part of the 20th century. They were a uniformed entity and saw themselves as legitimate. Whether you view them as legit, or the UK is another matter. Although such actions of the IRA cannot be justified, much can be said about the method in which the UK administered the whole island and also the north that contributed towards the conflict's development. The IRA did not exist in a vacuum. You'll also note that throughout the 20th century as their attacks became much more careless and accrued more and more collateral damage and victims their support weakened - both in Eire and in the US (particularly the Northeast which has millions of Irish and Irish decent.)


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## The Basket (Oct 23, 2007)

I have no probs discussing the IRA or whatever as part of historical fact.

But they were a terrorist organization who killed children. If you don't believe then Google warrington IRA and bomb and believe. I am originally from there so know me stuff.

Anyone who can justify the killing of children as part of a cause aint right.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 23, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> When will there be drinking songs about Al Qaeda?



I dont know, why dont you ask them?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 23, 2007)

CRASHGATE3 said:


> No you did not....
> And I didn't mean to imply or think that you did.....
> I apologise for misreading your post



No worries mate.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 23, 2007)

The Basket said:


> Anyone who can justify the killing of children as part of a cause aint right.



That I completely agree with.


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## ppopsie (Oct 23, 2007)

A bit exhausted to read all of the thread.

The most amazing thing I encountered in London in fall of 2003 was that there was a great Sushi bar-stand located at the center of a large floor at Paddington railway station where Mr. Sherlock Holmes was supposed to be standing on. I strongly wished we'd have one nearby back home. Almost of all other things in Britain were okay with me.


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## The Basket (Oct 23, 2007)

Autumn not Fall.

Not very British a Sushi bar! You need some fish and chips plus something deep fried.


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## plan_D (Oct 23, 2007)

They made curry British, why not sushi? Sushi would be in London anyway, that's where all the Japanese tourists go - you've got to cater for them.


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## Marcel (Oct 23, 2007)

The Basket said:


> People may be speaking French otherways and that would be awful. Don't mind Spanish so much. Wish I could speak it better but not much call for it.



I would say dutch, you know, even New York was Dutch, once, Peter Stuyvesant was a dutchman.


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## mkloby (Oct 23, 2007)

Marcel said:


> I would say dutch, you know, even New York was Dutch, once, Peter Stuyvesant was a dutchman.



You will be glad to know that there are actually several of "Stuyvesant Streets" in the NY/NJ metro area.


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## Marcel (Oct 23, 2007)

ahwell, they just traded it to the British for Suriname, can you believe that? 
Maybe it's for the best or else you would have had to talk dutch instead of English.


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## mkloby (Oct 23, 2007)

As the legend goes - the Dutch got Manhattan from the natives for a bag of beads


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## Marcel (Oct 23, 2007)

Now you know what you're worth 
Well, one moment my ancestors were clever the other moment complete fools. Because of them I had to learn English, the bastards ... sigh...


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## The Basket (Oct 23, 2007)

Why did you have to learn English?

William of Orange did invade England and become king.

If you couldn't speak English you couldn't use this forum!


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## Marcel (Oct 23, 2007)

The Basket said:


> Why did you have to learn English?


In Holland you first have to learn 3 foreign languages, French, German and English as dutch is.. eh not very well spoken abroad. An if I hadn't learned English I couldn't have spoken. eh typed to you this way.



> If you couldn't speak English you couldn't use this forum!



Exactly, all because of my ancesters


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## ppopsie (Oct 23, 2007)

> Posted by The Basket "Not very British a Sushi bar! You need some fish and chips plus something deep fried"



Fish'n chips are OK. Smoked cod roe and mackerel are really SUPERB. These are what I would like to eat in Britain but not sushi at one of the famous place like Paddington station. The problem is that I need to drive more than thirty minutes to get to the nearest sushi-restaurant here in Japan.


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## Aggie08 (Oct 25, 2007)

I like Britain, the sense of humor is great and those Spitfires are really pretty. But I saw something in my school newspaper today, some shmuck named Nick Griffin of the British Socialist Party or something like that is coming to speak at my university soon. He believes in cutting down non-white immigration to the UK to achieve the predominately white population from around 1950. He argues that the whites were the ones to build up and defend the country and as such are the only ones entitled to live there. I find this an incredibly racist and ignorant point of view. We have wackos over here like that but no one pays attention to them. We have people who oppose the Mexicans immigrating, which is funny to me because my state of Texas was basically founded on illegal immigration to the area in the mid-1800s. Not to mention, my country was founded on immigration and to oppose it is a morally wrong thing to do. Does this guy actually have real support or is he an independent party no-name no one votes for?


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## ppopsie (Oct 25, 2007)

I was truly amazed to see people from so many kind of races were there at Trafalgar Square in one afternoon few years back. What I felt then was it's the British Empire to made that happen. Even Tokyo had became one of the biggest cities in the world I never saw things like that in there.


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## Becca (Oct 25, 2007)

I'd rather Sushi..THOUGH I love fish and chips..with Malt vinegar...YUM!


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## comiso90 (Oct 25, 2007)

Les'Bride said:


> I'd rather Sushi..THOUGH I love fish and chips..with Malt vinegar...YUM!



Mississippi girl would rather eat fish and chip than crawfish and hushpuppies?

Dont say its true!

.


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## ppopsie (Oct 25, 2007)

Malt vinegar not ketchup. Soy source for the Sushi.


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