# Holocaust



## NightHawk (May 4, 2005)

On this Thursday we have the Holocaust memorial day in isreal, 
For the 6.000.000 jews who were murdered by the Nazis.
יהי זכרם ברוך  
REMEMBER AND NEVER FORGET


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## Pisis (Aug 2, 2005)

Never forget!


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 2, 2005)

Never Forget!


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 2, 2005)

Never.


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## evangilder (Aug 2, 2005)

And may it never happen again.


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## lesofprimus (Aug 2, 2005)

That picture he posted has a very very innapropriate name... Costume??? Who the fuck would wear a costume of a Jewish Holocost Victim???

I also happen to find it very funny that Nighthawk calls his race "Jews".... I dont know many Jewish people who like the word "Jew"...

Never Forget...... 

And its happening in Africa as we speak.... Starvation will end up killing almost as many innocents as Hitler did... The UN and Bono can only do so much...

U CANT GROW FOOD IN THE FREAKIN DESERT!!


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## evangilder (Aug 2, 2005)

Good point, Les. Unfortunately, the human race has a long way to go. 

It is funny with the word Jew. To call a single person a Jew is sometimes considered derogatory, but to call a group of us Jews, it's okay. I never figured that one out. I think it also depends on the context the word is used in. Either way, it's much better than "kike".


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## lesofprimus (Aug 2, 2005)

LoL... I remember the first time I heard that word "kike"... It was in the movie "Porky's".... Remember??? In the lockeroom????

"I think I'll go fly a Kike".... We didnt have too many Jewish kids in suburban Long Island back in the day lol.... We were all like "I dont get it"...


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## evangilder (Aug 2, 2005)

I actually had a house-guest, an old friend of my wife, who is Jewish, refer to herself as a kike. I about shit myself.


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## trackend (Aug 3, 2005)

> And its happening in Africa as we speak.... Starvation will end up killing almost as many innocents as Hitler did... The UN and Bono can only do so much...


 The difference is most of the deaths in Africa although appalling are not part of an state organized mass killing of a race the closest I know of it to that was the Hutu's and the Tutsi-es in Rwanda.
Nationality had nothing to do with it German, French, Pole, whatever it was just being Jewish that sealed these peoples fate.
F**k*ng Nazi pigs


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## plan_D (Aug 3, 2005)

You can grow food in the desert. The only reason Africa is starving is because they're not working and they supported their governments until the governments turned around and dumped on them. 

Look at Zimbabwae; "Kick out the white farmers!" pure fanatical racism on the part of ALL the country until they had all the whites out of the nation, and no one to be racist to. The government started demolishing their homes and now they're crying out for aid! Ha! Let them starve! They were only well and good because whites knew how to run the farms, they don't 'cos they're stupid! And then they kick the people out who were keeping them alive! The fact that they're starving now is natural justice. 

And all that money going to Africa is a load of bull. It all goes to the warlords and clan leaders. Buying new mansions, mercedes and helicopters for private transport. All they're doing, all the time is fighting each other. How can we expect to help people inside a culture unwilling to help themselves? Even African-Americans have "disowned" them and refused to give aid because they think those in Africa are lazy and should work instead of just holding their hands out. 

Give Africa £2 a month so they can buy AK-47s for their clan wars!

If you really wanted to help them, you'd go in there with military force remove the leaders. Rule the country, build the farms and feed the people. Much like what Europe was doing in the days of Global Imperialism. But these days "Europe bled Africa dry". People who say that don't have a clue; we built their roads, we built their railways, we uncovered their resources, we kept them alive! And yes, we did it for our own good but we still kept them alive. Europe didn't destroy the infrastructure it had developed in Africa when it left, the Africans did. 

Mankind has advanced far enough to create our own climate, we could turn Africa in to one lush rainforest if we wanted to. But Africa is racist, they hate whites and don't accept them in their country. The U.S could build the exact system they have in the Arizona desert to grow in a desert, but they never will. The reason is everyone rants on about giving them money. Why? Did anyone give Europe money in the Dark Ages? Did anyone give the Ancient Eygptians money? 

Poor Africans with their droughts, locust swarms and war. Well, here's a solution; move near a river or dig a well (elephants can find water in the desert, so can humans), eat the locusts and stop being so stupid, stop fighting. 

They won't though, so this has been a waste of my time. 

The Holocaust will happen again just never on such a grand scale.


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## Pisis (Aug 3, 2005)

Yeah, and the pussy Greenpaece members stop me in the metro and want me to sign a petition against GM food...


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 3, 2005)

plan_D said:


> .
> 
> Look at Zimbabwae; "Kick out the white farmers!" pure fanatical racism on the part of ALL the country until they had all the whites out of the nation, and no one to be racist to. The government started demolishing their homes and now they're crying out for aid! Ha! Let them starve! They were only well and good because whites knew how to run the farms, they don't 'cos they're stupid! And then they kick the people out who were keeping them alive! The fact that they're starving now is natural justice.



Agree - I've been to Botswana - All the Zimbabwans try to go there and are sometimes gunned down at the border by the Zimbabwan Army.



plan_D said:


> . And all that money going to Africa is a load of bull. It all goes to the warlords and clan leaders. Buying new mansions, mercedes and helicopters for private transport. All they're doing, all the time is fighting each other. How can we expect to help people inside a culture unwilling to help themselves? Even African-Americans have "disowned" them and refused to give aid because they think those in Africa are lazy and should work instead of just holding their hands out.



It's funny to see African Amercians go to Afica to find their "roots." They return to find that many Africans hate them worse than bigoted white southerners!




plan_D said:


> .
> If you really wanted to help them, you'd go in there with military force remove the leaders. Rule the country, build the farms and feed the people. Much like what Europe was doing in the days of Global Imperialism. But these days "Europe bled Africa dry". People who say that don't have a clue; we built their roads, we built their railways, we uncovered their resources, we kept them alive! And yes, we did it for our own good but we still kept them alive. Europe didn't destroy the infrastructure it had developed in Africa when it left, the Africans did.



Agree - And those who preach this crap were never there!



plan_D said:


> . Mankind has advanced far enough to create our own climate, we could turn Africa in to one lush rainforest if we wanted to. But Africa is racist, they hate whites and don't accept them in their country. The U.S could build the exact system they have in the Arizona desert to grow in a desert, but they never will. The reason is everyone rants on about giving them money. Why? Did anyone give Europe money in the Dark Ages? Did anyone give the Ancient Eygptians money?
> 
> Poor Africans with their droughts, locust swarms and war. Well, here's a solution; move near a river or dig a well (elephants can find water in the desert, so can humans), eat the locusts and stop being so stupid, stop fighting.
> 
> They won't though, so this has been a waste of my time.



You hit the nail on the head D!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 3, 2005)

I agree we should never forget what happened and learn from it so that it may never happen again. Unfortunatly Plan_D you are correct it will happen again and it already has in places like Kosovo, Bosnia, Cambodia, Iraq....The list is endless.


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## ariel81 (Aug 12, 2005)

never again 
REVENGE


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## Medvedya (Aug 12, 2005)

Against who though?


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## Pisis (Aug 12, 2005)

It also occupied my mind... It is not possible, Ariel, only in the way Simon Wiesenthal does. 

I'd change your statement to:

_P*REVEN*CE_


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## ariel81 (Aug 12, 2005)

y didnt say that is posible,only that revenge is what y want
against whom??against everione that kill my people,or helped them do it


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## Pisis (Aug 12, 2005)

Nah, I love to beat skinheads! They're desperate cocksucker and assfuckers! But some of them are real beasts!


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## ariel81 (Aug 12, 2005)

they are cowards,they never come 1 to 1 like men,always in group


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## Pisis (Aug 12, 2005)

Yes, but that is a street tactic - rowdies, etc... One of local skins beat up my two female frineds! Then one of her girlfriend, he's a gipsy, kicked the shit out of him!

Kill 'em all!

When I'm prepared, I'll carry a gun and don't know if I don't kill one or two. Then I run to Israel.


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## ariel81 (Aug 12, 2005)

there's one time in the university,y saw a guy with a bag oif my former tank unit,and we started to talk
he heard my argentinian accent and told me that after the army he went on the tradicional long trip to south america,with to friends,also former combat soldiers,one in artillery and the other in the paratroppers
they went to buenos aires,to a part of town called eleven,or balvanera,where are lot's of religius jew's
it was friday ,and they saw a old religius jew,being bothered and like atacked by 6 of those scum,they went to help him,and those scum left the old men and tried to came to theisraelis,you know,is lot's more fun to beat 3 jews instead of 1

BIG MISTAKEit's not the same to beat an old guy than 3 former combat soldier's with 3 years of combat on their back's
in the ensuring fistfigth the score was
for the israelis,a couple of bruises
for the scum everione with several broken bones,one with a broken skull in several places,and another one also ,that was caugth by the artyllerimen,who is a psicho,with his bals crushed and turned to pulp   
he's not gonna do more nazi kids


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## Pisis (Aug 12, 2005)

good story.

yeah, some of the guys I know (especially guys from misgeret in vienna) are psycho! and i believe that in the IDF it's psycho, too.


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## ariel81 (Aug 12, 2005)

in reality they are not psicho's,they just hate nazis,if you have mental problem's,you cant serve in tzahal


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## Pisis (Aug 12, 2005)

my only problem is i hate nazis! although i got a Bf 110 in my siggy.


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## Medvedya (Aug 12, 2005)

ariel81 said:


> y didnt say that is posible,only that revenge is what y want
> against whom??against everione that kill my people,or helped them do it



But those people are all dead! Better to simply remember the past, and look forward to the future.


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

not all of them,and that's beside the point


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## Pisis (Aug 13, 2005)

Yeah, for example many Slovak War Criminals live happily in Germany and even on Slovakia these days. Because they were after the war used by Communist Secret Services...

Or Anton Malloth, the Theresienstadt Camp guard, is living somewhere in Germany, has a rent, big flat, a car... When there are actions to punish him, at least symbolic, they defend him, saying that he's too old. Nobody cares that Millions of old people died in the Holocaust because of these bastards... That's very sad... 

The same the Czech, Slovak and Polish people who kicked out three Millions of Germans out of its borders after the war - many of them were murders, and the most brutal ones were just masking there former collaboration with nazis and than became the most aspirant Communists...

*An old guilt is still a guilt.*


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

ariel81 please dont take me wrong when I say this. I feel deep sympathy for all the people not just Jews that were killed and hurt in WW2 but I people that think like you on the Revenge aspect are why this world is never going to get better. As a young German/American I had nothing to do with Holocaust. Neither did my mother nor my Grandfather or Grandmother. Neither did any of my friends and family. Neither did 95% of Germans under the age of 70. Especially Germans born after WW2 they had nothing to do with the Holocaust. 

It is like blaming a German child who is 5 years old and condemning him for something that happend even before his parents were born. It simply can not be done.


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

if you read my post y mean the people who did it or the people who helped,not obvisuly someone like you

my family is also from austria and germany,they fougth and even died fopr those countries,and what they received for that??a free ticket for a kl


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## Pisis (Aug 13, 2005)

where were they?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

Again I said I am sorry for you peoples losses but I feel no blame what so ever at all.


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

in germany in oriental prussia,close to koenigsberg,another close to danzig,and the rest in north of austria

you are not guilty,of cviuyrse,but you have a ceratin amount of responsability,your country and your people did it
but is amazin how muhc civilixed the german are now,comparing with 60 years ago,of curse,they get democratic and civilized by force,by the usa


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## Pisis (Aug 13, 2005)

No I meant in the KLs...

____________
"but is amazin how muhc civilixed the german are now"
____________
no, no. they were allways, even during WWII, that is one of the most phenomenons - they listened to classic music, were gently but then turned into animals...


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

ahh,most of them got killed by shooting,they never went to kl,thats my close family,the rest,dont know


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

No actually I do not feel that it is my responsibility or that of my countries. I feel that it is the responsibility of the world.


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## Pisis (Aug 13, 2005)

my both grandparents and my uncle survived Auschwitz... the rest didn't
my 2nd grandpa was a partysan on Slovakian mountains and my 2nd grandma is not jewish, but she was a total worker in the Luftschutz (anti-aircraft inform intellignece)


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

you are rigth,is also responsability of the world,but the primary is from germany


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## Pisis (Aug 13, 2005)

and i think it flows very good (excluding the far-right, of course)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

The far right do not count. They are ignorant and uneducated and most of them dont come from Germany anyhow.


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## Pisis (Aug 13, 2005)

How in Germany is possible that in Sachsen they have each-year the Nazi march? Also it came to my hands a magazine supported by NDAP (is it? the new NSDAP) - that's freakin!

BTW, who are you ging to vote?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

In Germany it is actually illegal to post any signs of Nazi paraphenilia, however just like in most western countries you are entitled to freedom of speech and freedom of protest as long as you are not physically hurting anyone. Believe it or not the numbers of Neo Nazis and skin head is actually remarkably smaller than in places such as Russia and the United States.

There is an actual Nazi Party in Germany. They call themselves the Braunen. They have never been able to get into parlament though because they can not even get 1 percent of the vote. Nor will they ever.


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## Pisis (Aug 13, 2005)

Yes, I know. In this matter, eg. no Hakenkreuz is included into Revell decals...

I've heard about die Braunen, are they the same who make the each year march on Rudolf Hess's tombstone?


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## plan_D (Aug 13, 2005)

Banning stuff like the Nazi symbols is stupid. It's part of history for gods sake, but then ...not many people care about history these days.


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

sorry but when those simbols cause a world war like that one,and the killing of 50 million people,they have to be banned


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

I agree Plan_D. I collect Third Reich uniforms and artifacts out of historical reasons. Does that make me a Nazi? No I just like History.


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

humm,i'm not sure


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

ariel81 said:


> sorry but when those simbols cause a world war like that one,and the killing of 50 million people,they have to be banned



I am sorry but you are wrong. Lets see the Russians killed millions of people do we ban the red star? No. Religion has killed millions of people since the beginning of times and still does. Do we ban the cross, the star of david, or other religios icons. No.


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## Pisis (Aug 13, 2005)

if someone misapplies to politically connect to nazism or fashism, it's good to be banned. When it is banned in the historical context - which is not - then as far as it serves it's ok.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

ariel81 said:


> humm,i'm not sure



So are you saying that I am a Nazi?


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

the soviet union doesn't started the war,germany started the war


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

Who cares, they are responsible for the deaths of innocent Russian lives years before the war, during the war. They helped pursecute the jews also, they killed millions of slavs also. They were responsible for the deaths of millions during the cold war.

So why dont we band the red star and the hammer and sickel?

Everyone forgets that the Germans are not the only ones that did bad things in this world. Lets see there are the Russians, the Cambodians, The Serbs, The Albanians, The Iraqis, The Bosnians, The Jews and also the Palestinians. So do we go around and ban all of there symbols? No.

There is not a country in this world that has a clean slate, we just choose to forget the most part about the rest and it is a shame.


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

yeah,the rusians killed lot's of people,y agrre with you,but the comunist idea is not based on race,and on exterminate the "inferior" races,like nazism (whant happened later in russia,is a degeneration of the ideology)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

You really have no clue. The Russians killed the Slavs, the Gypsies and the Jews because they considered them inferior, not because they just wanted to!


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

the gipsies y dont know,but the rest because they considered them as enemies of the state,not inferios,it's not the same


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

and y told you,the comunist ideology is not racist himself,like nazism,what happened to those guys is because a deformation of the communist ideology


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

It is no different. And you still have not answered by question about you saying that I am a nazi?


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

yes,i already answered your question,y told you that my remark about beeing a nazi wasnt for you,was for plan d


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

Okay sorry I missed that one.


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## ariel81 (Aug 13, 2005)

no problem


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

Cool


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## Medvedya (Aug 13, 2005)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you ban swastikas (a symbol that by the way has been around long before the Nazi's used it) you give it a mystique it doesn't deserve.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

I agree with you 100% there.


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## Medvedya (Aug 13, 2005)

Here's the long version of my views on it.



Med wrote this ages ago on the subject said:


> Still, what happened, happened, and there it is. The Swastika is much, much older than the Third Reich anyway. In houses in India, it's above the doorways with small dots inside each of the 'hooks'. I think to ban it is a mistake. People who are into their Neo-Nazi ideas aren't going to worry about a ban, and by banning the symbol it gives it some kind of unjustified mystique. Far better to have it there, and make sure people are properly aware of all it stood for between 1933-45.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

You are 100% correct.


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 13, 2005)

As usual.


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## Pisis (Aug 13, 2005)

I agree with Ariel that Nazi ideology consequences differs from Communism. Both it was an evil ideologies anyway. In Nazism, it was primarily about to which "race" you belonged to, your politic orientation was "only secondary". In the Comminism, it was vice versa - your primarily guilt was your non-satisfying politic behaviour, your "race" was just on the 2nd place. Milions of Jews served in the Red Army - that they were persecuted because of everywhere anti-semitism is another thing. Simplified: Nazis killed primarily for "race", Bolshewiks for your policy


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

But is it really different?


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## Medvedya (Aug 13, 2005)

Well, people died in the Gulags through malnutrition, overwork, and exposure, but there were no _Vernichtungslager_ as such.

To me, that's what takes the horrors that the Nazi's devised up that extra notch - that people were being taken to simply be killed, no more, no less. More shocking as well, is that this process had been industrialised.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 14, 2005)

You are correct, nothing will come close to what the Nazis did however a lot of people forget about everything else that other people have done. You rarely hear about whole towns in Russia just vanishing there people never seen again. You dont hear about what the Japanese did on that large of a scale, and they did things just as bad. And that is where my question comes in, when is a wrong a write? When is a wrong Okay?


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## evangilder (Aug 14, 2005)

I have been to some native American ruins where the swastika is on the walls. It is an ancient symbol that a group of evil men decided to use for their symbol. The Swastika in and of itself is not evil. The Nazis who used it for a symbol were.


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## Medvedya (Aug 14, 2005)

And can't it be said that an 18 year old in the Heer Wehrmacht who froze to death outside Stalingrad wasn't as much a victim of this madness as a person at Auschwitz was?


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## Pisis (Aug 14, 2005)

I agree that the Holocaust's madness was springing mainly out of the fact it was industrialized. A member of an "under-race" was doomed to death just because he was born. That is in my opinion the uniquity of Holocaust as a vanishing process.

Well, of course young German soldiers were victims as well, but not comparable to those ones who were dieing in camps... Holocaust is unique because it's un-understanabke, even the survivors cannot sometimes name or categorize it. Because of this fact it's unique - it goes out any bounds of crimes we know.


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 14, 2005)

Unfortunately for some, the symbol of the swastika will remain tainted in western society, regardless of it's good and pure historical meanings with many cultures. The Nazis did that to it, like evan said.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 14, 2005)

I agree with everything that you say, and I agree with you med and pisis. The world as a whole suffered because of a handful (when I say handful I mean it was small amount in comparison to the population of the world) of evil men.`````


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