# Request for More Photos or Information on 2 JG5 Pilots based in Norway 1945



## diversdream (Jan 28, 2010)

This is a plea for details on the Action between 617 RAF Sqd and 9 RAF Sqd on 12 January 1945 over Bergen Norway. 
During this operation we had a relation killed flying KC-B which were shot down and then machine gunned in the water and killed as the aircraft was drifting in towards the Shoreline (Ian S Ross 18839 RAAF) 

What i am after are - 

1) Photos/Aircraft Details etc of the 2 leaders of the Staffels involved, aircraft and final fate.

2) Photos of Any of the JG5 Aircrews or Aircraft involved in this action and or a list of all the Aircrews flying that day near Bergen. 

3) Air Combat reports involving Any of the Lancasters shot down or damaged on this date - Not Just JG5

4) reasons/response why German ASR may have not been able to recover the 2 Lancaster's Aircrews brought down near the Coast of Bergen (this is based around the Claim that this did not occur - the shooting of the airman in the water - despite it being witnessed by 2 Lancaster Aircrews and 1 ASR Warwick Aircrew).
5 Identity of ASR aircrew and Sqd from RAF dispatched to area after Lancaster ditched and that saw a fighter (some say 190 (617/9 RAF Squadrons) some say 88 (Authors recently) attacking airman in water after they dropped an airborne lifeboat near the aircrew still standing on the floating Lancaster's wing apart for one airman who swimming over towards the lifeboat when the fatal pass took place.
6 German Casualties bomb damage etc esp in regard to FW 190s, but also including Floating Dock (Ian's Target) and the U-boat Pens and U-Boats. 
7) were JU 88s involved in this action in any manner? or in the area after the Lancasters Left.
9) were any unidentified remains recovered around this time between Bergen and Stavane (where the Single Airman's Body was recovered and rests in that cemetery) that were Air Force?
10 Any Photos or Reports revolving around reports that 617 Lancaster's were marked for 'Special Attention' due to their involvement in Sinking Tirpitz and from JG5s point of view the loss of their highly popular CO who was recalled to Berlin and Courtmartialed over the affair. 

The Photos below are from a Japanese Site but so far have been the best i can find on the two Leaders. 

Hope to hear from you all - Stephen. 

PS 
Ian was on his second tour, one of the Airman killed with him took part in the Augsburg Operation of 1942 and had around 70 Ops to his name,Ian was flying back to back tours and was around 50 Ops.
The 2 Witnesses from 617 RAF sqd were the Aircrews of Fred Watts and Jimmy Castagnola, both close friends of Ian who 'have never felt and never to hope to feel that helpless again' in their entire lives.
Another ex 617 Aircrew that of Phil Martin RAAF also confirmed this story and i now i have a copy of a letter thanks to the NOK of Fred Watts who is now deceased where he describes seeing Ian go down and the events that took place afterwards. 
This has also been confirmed by a Diary Entry written by Fred Watts RCAF Bomb Aimer Mervyn McKay which also confirms the above version of events and was passed onto me by his NOK after he was also deceased. 

Long Term the Family are hoping to have a monument erected in Ian's Memory, as well as those others killed that day in 1945 somewhere in Bergen (Any Pointers would be appreciated)
The Engine of his Lancaster was recovered from the Ocean and is now being restored in a Norwegian Museum for eventual display as well.
According to one of the more recent published works on the Squadron Ian's Tallboy is now believed to have been one of those that struck Tirpitz on her Bow on the final operation to sink her.


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## diversdream (Jan 28, 2010)

More Picks


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## diversdream (Jan 28, 2010)

more


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## diversdream (Jan 28, 2010)

Similar to Condition Ian's Lanc was in when Aircrew were Killed Unknown Pilot of Warwick is quoted in Several 617 Histories as stating (his never named just the sqd he was part of anyone know his name??)

"Still well afloat with 6 on Wings and one in water Swimming towards the Lifeboat after a successful drop, Lifeboat no more then 60 Feet from Aircrew, aircraft drifting in towards shore, few miles at most away from Bergen Shore...
Spotted Two 190's Diving down firing on airman in water and on Aircraft, both 190s dived down to almost sea level then leveled out and commenced firing firstly on Airman Swimming in water and then on aircrew remaining on Lancaster Wing.
Unable to see result of these passes, as while the pair of 190s turned around to make a 2nd pass we were then chased away by another 190 ourselves and forced to leave area..."

(that night the whole area was searched by Warrick's, Liberators and Catalina's using Leigh Lights - 
No Trace of Aircrew or Lifeboat was sighted - searching continued for 3 days afterwards, day and night with No trace found)

Only remains recovered according to RAAF Report found at Australian Archives (not in personal file or Loss File) but under "Missing Airman Records" (Not Just Ian listed by Year and covering all Theatres IE 1940 etc etc) stated - 

"RAF Report Aircrew Machine Gunned in Water by Fighters, 1 Body Recovered down coast exhumed post war examined and RAF Investigators (SIB plus Medical Officer) reported - 'obvious signs of machine gun wounds to body'. 

Remains were re buried and so far no Trace of Flying Officer IS Ross RAAF 18839 has been located, or that of the 5 Other airman with him.
Flying Officer Ross was only RAAF Member involved in this Loss.

Missing Status now Changed to Killed as of this date (1946), Parents and Sister as his Next of Kin are to be notified as such by Telegram from RAAF Office Melbourne"


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## Maximowitz (Jan 28, 2010)

I assume you've been in touch with Andreas Brekken? If not I would say he should be your first stop concerning JG 5.


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## diversdream (Jan 28, 2010)

Another Example of a ditched Aircraft still well afloat several hours after Ditching Successfully.
Digram shwing how a Tallboy Bomb as Carried on 12 January 1945 would have been used on a Lancaster.


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## diversdream (Jan 28, 2010)

(very intrested in getting better quality picks then these can anyone help??)


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## diversdream (Jan 28, 2010)

Good Example of a Ditched Lanc - Ian's Lancaster was still in one piece and the wings were intact.


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## diversdream (Jan 28, 2010)

Ian at the back of the Petwood Hotel, 617 RAF Squadron Officers Mess, RAF Woodhall Spa late 1944, sent to Family in 1945 after his Death.


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## diversdream (Jan 28, 2010)

This is the ship Ian Traveled on to Canada leaving Sydney and traveling non stop to Canada where he was trained at the RCAF Airfield at Fort Mcloud at 7 SFTS where he trained on Oxford Aircraft and was presented with his Wings in a hangar at the Airfield by Air Vice Marshall Stanley Goble RAAF before sailing to Engalnd to join RAF Bomber Command.

(Does Anyone have any details on this ship or Airfield ??)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 28, 2010)

diversdream we have asked you start posting these threads in the correct sections. You are posting them in the wrong sections over and over, even after several moderators have politely asked you in PMs to stop doing so. You continue to ignore us.

I will move this thread to the proper one, one last time. After that the threads will be removed until you can properly post them.


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## diversdream (Jan 28, 2010)

Put before an Honour Court and found guilty sentenced to Death - sentence to be carried out after the end of the War. 
Killed in Action just before end of the War in 1945 - last words reputed to have been 

"See you in Valhalla".

"The failure of this operation led to the commander being recalled to Berlin to face a Court Martial.
He was Maj Ehrler and he was sentenced to 3 years hard labour and 10 officers in charge of Tirpitz FLAK defences were also recalled and later jailed.
Ehrler had his sentence later increased under Goering's personal order to a 'open death sentence to be carried out after the war at the soonest opportunity'.

For now he was to fly ME262s until this could be carried out.

He was killed in 1945 when his jet was shot down by a USA Mustang.

He was due to be awarded the Crossed Swords to the Knights Cross but this decoration was never given to him.

At the age of 28 he was considered a failure by the Luftwaffe.

(AW Cooper "From the Dams to the Tirpitz" PP140-150)


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## diversdream (Jan 28, 2010)

Thats it - have had it.

you wont here from me again - i treid this time and im still getting crap chucked at me. 
It said Aircraft pictures thats what i have posted!! 

Dear sir i disagree with your moving my post on this occasion for a number of reasons - 

1) the post contains aircraft pictures 
2) it will contain German Pilot and Aircraft Pictures once i finish uploading them ( i was in the process of sorting that out when you gazumped me)
3) if someone can post their log book entry material along with photos from 22 RAAF Sqd as in a earlier post why cant I?
4) I also checked on this with someone else on the board and they advised i should be fine!!!!

I am very disheartened right now with this constant moving of what i am posting in some of the cases i can now see they were wrong but in this case i think that you are wrong sir! 
if i sound peeved i just spent all night finding photos of Maj Ehrler and co to go with it off my hard drive and i am upset, mad as hell and to quote the film Network 'I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!'

What about you WAIT and see next time before jumping the gun !

oh and there is a reason why i posted it here this time i checked with someone in the group as i said earlier, i now also have one response from this post to assist me so why not move the dam thing back - or are you going to go through now and remove the 22 RAAF Post and all the others that don't feature aircraft! 
If so i would suggest that you remove all the navy/army picks in the Colour Allies and Axis pick collections for starters!
Im sure there are more hidden away in there! 

one very peeved and tired Stephen.

PS 
Please move the bleeping thing back as its working and i am getting results!


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## Njaco (Jan 29, 2010)

Hey, Stephen, chill.

You never replied to my post.
You never replied to my PM.
To be honest, I was peeved because you came off as ignoring us while posting material (lots of it) in some sections that obviously didn't belong. Great stuff but how about communicating with us?

oh and maybe you're getting replies because its in the proper place now? hmmmmmmmmm


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 29, 2010)

Njaco said:


> Hey, Stephen, chill.
> 
> You never replied to my post.
> You never replied to my PM.
> ...



Just like the thread *Re Extract 2 HMAS Sydney Commsioning to Final Voyage * from "Aircraft Pictures Thread" to "WW2 Warships Thread".

Why?

Because it had nothing to do with "Aircraft Pictures".

We are not trying to be mean or assholes, we are just trying to keep everything in its place.

Again this is a great thread, now that it is in the right place.


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## evangilder (Jan 29, 2010)

You have had more than enough chances to put things in their proper place. 

I have to be honest here, you post a lot of facts that are related, yet almost incoherent because you seem to flypaper a bunch of stuff together. It is better to collect all of those facts together and post them into one single coherent post, in the proper thread.

The job of moderators and administrators here is to keep the place running smoothly and putting things in their proper threads. You want to get an attitude about it, you can go post somewhere else. 

Moderators and admins here do this voluntarily (read, no one gets paid for this), so if you want to give attitude and act like you own the place, your stay here will be short. I will see to that. Now post in the right threads and if you jump on one more of the mods or admins here, I will kick you out of here myself.


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