# DO-335 VS TA-152



## luftwaffemesserschmitt (Aug 7, 2007)

Hello,

I always wandered which of this planes was the best ?
Which plane was the luftwaffe realy need for defending Germany ?

best regards jan


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## Soren (Aug 7, 2007)

The Ta-152H wins hands down as a fighter, but as a bomber destroyer the DO-335 would've been perfect.


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## SoD Stitch (Aug 7, 2007)

Yeah, it depends on what you're going after . . . if you're going after P-47's/P-51's, then the -152 would be better. For shooting bombers outta the sky, I'd go with the _Pfeil_.


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## lesofprimus (Aug 7, 2007)

I should close this thread now, as the first 2 answers are the only ones ull hear...


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## Erich (Aug 7, 2007)

it's the ta 152H period in both respects, the Do if it could have even flown 1 operational mission would of been hen pecked by P-51's in the air and all the way home and shot up like a seeve - too late and a worthless piece of big oversized crap


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## SoD Stitch (Aug 7, 2007)

Erich said:


> it's the ta 152H period in both respects, the Do if it could have even flown 1 operational mission would of been hen pecked by P-51's in the air and all the way home and shot up like a seeve - too late and a worthless piece of big oversized crap



Wrong! The -335 was a good 50 mph faster than a -51D; it could've picked it's fight, and dictated when where to engage. If the situation got too hot, hit the MW-50 and get outta there. No, it wasn't very manueverable but, like the Me-262, the smart pilot would use it's speed to his advantage, choose when where to attack, then get away fast. Good luck, Mustang!


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## Erich (Aug 7, 2007)

bullshit ! no service record so nothing can even be accomplished without real action reports, it would of met it's fate like all LW a/c in 45 ---- dog meat.

I have enough crap written in document form on the nf version of the Do which will be in my book


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## SoD Stitch (Aug 7, 2007)

You are correct, the _Pfeil_ did not have a "service record", as no units ever reached operational status before the end of the War. 

However, on at least one well-documented occasion, a Do-335 was able to "walk away" from a flight of P-51's, without the Mustangs even managing to get in a shot, due to the -335's superior speed. As I said, the smart LW pilot would've used the _Pfeil's_ advantages to his benefit, not gotten tangled up in a furball with a bunch of more manueverable Mustangs.

And the main reason the LW was "dog meat" in '45 was superior Allied numbers, not necessarily superior tactics or superior hardware; anybody who is outnumbered 10-to-1 is probably going to lose, I don't care how good you are. In '40, the French were "dog meat" to the LW due to the LW's superior numbers; you do the math.


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## Erich (Aug 7, 2007)

you mention walking away from Mustangs as this was attributed to Kurt Tank flying a Ta 152C not a Do 335. well we should care about dog meat as it is the truth, my cousin found out when he was shot down and killed by Mustangs in November of 44.

the future was in the jet the LW pilots knew it as it was reality. No-one can change the facts. Jg 300 was to be fully equipped but never saw the day, Jg 301 would of been outfitted as well as other units with the 262 and other comparable jets


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Aug 8, 2007)

> well we should care about dog meat as it is the truth, my cousin found out when he was shot down and killed by Mustangs in November of 44.



That's sad.


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## SoD Stitch (Aug 8, 2007)

Erich said:


> you mention walking away from Mustangs as this was attributed to Kurt Tank flying a Ta 152C not a Do 335. well we should care about dog meat as it is the truth, my cousin found out when he was shot down and killed by Mustangs in November of 44.



Got me! You are absolutely correct as to the above-mentioned incident; however, I apparently got my aircraft mixed-up, as it was _Tempests_, not Mustangs, that were involved. See below:

"In his book _The Big Show_, French ace Pierre Clostermann claims the first Allied combat encounter with a Pfeil in April 1945. Leading a flight of four Hawker Tempests from No. 3 Squadron RAF over northern Germany, he intercepted by chance a lone Do 335 flying at maximum speed at treetop level. Detecting the British aircraft, the German pilot reversed course to evade. In spite of the Tempest's considerable speed, the RAF fighters were not able to catch up or even get into firing position."

Quoted from Wikipedia, entry for the Dornier Do 335, Dornier Do 335 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## lesofprimus (Aug 8, 2007)

Clostermann was an as*hole and a fraud, fu*k him....


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## SoD Stitch (Aug 8, 2007)

lesofprimus said:


> Clostermann was an as*hole and a fraud, fu*k him....



Wow! I guess you really don't like him . . .

I'm no frog fan, I was just quoting what's out there; if anybody has contradictory info, please post it here.


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## Njaco (Aug 8, 2007)

I think the Dornier, while a novel idea, would've been thrown away eventually. The Ta, along with the 262, would've been the main fighters and the Ar 234 would've taken the Jabo role. There would've been no need for a contraption like the Pfeil. IMHO.


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## Marshall_Stack (Aug 8, 2007)

I think the Do 335 would have been ideal for armed reconnaissance. Too bad it didn't reach operational status. It is a cool looking plane.


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## Marshall_Stack (Aug 8, 2007)

lesofprimus said:


> Clostermann was an as*hole and a fraud, fu*k him....



I have his book and he doesn't seem to come across as "one". What gives you this notion...?


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## lesofprimus (Aug 8, 2007)

Meeting and talking and listening to his fellow pilots... Many of Clostermanns kills are made up bullshit, and I for one take 50% of what he's about with a large spoonful of salt.... 

And I have read his book as well....


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## Soren (Aug 8, 2007)

Perhaps his fellow pilots don't like him because he doesn't always speak to friendly about the Spitfire.


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## lesofprimus (Aug 8, 2007)

To some extent Im sure Soren....


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## comiso90 (Aug 9, 2007)

Soren said:


> Perhaps his fellow pilots don't like him because he doesn't always speak to friendly about the Spitfire.



I suppose if u try really hard, u can disparage the spitfire in nominal ways...

but what were his prime complaints?


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## The Basket (Aug 9, 2007)

The Do 335 was nowhere near ready in 1945 anyway. But in theory it would have been a top bomber destroyer. But new allied fighters matched its much vaunted speed anyway and then it was a turkey in a dog fight.


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## Marshall_Stack (Aug 9, 2007)

The Basket said:


> The Do 335 was nowhere near ready in 1945 anyway. But in theory it would have been a top bomber destroyer. But new allied fighters matched its much vaunted speed anyway and then it was a turkey in a dog fight.



That is why I think it would have been better for fast reconnaissance...


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## Parmigiano (Aug 9, 2007)

In my opinion the 335 was the top achievement of the twin engined PROP 'heavy fighter' concept.
Her problem was that the new jest age made her already obsolete, like all the last generation prop planes.

It had a speed advantage on the contemporary prop fighters, MAYBE would have kept this advantage with further development (if the new prop Allied fighter were faster than the 1945 models, the 335 had her whole potential to develop too) but could have never kept the pace with the jets.

Same for the Ta152, with the difference that it was the last refinement of an existing project rather than the first of a new concept: had the war continued, most likely the 152 could have been more effective than the 335 in the 6-12 months before the jets take over because it was already 'debugged' and combat ready. 
By the time the 335 could be 100% combat ready, Meteor and P80 would have been available and the Germans (of course) would have had jet options far superior than te 335.


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## drgondog (Aug 9, 2007)

Parmigiano said:


> In my opinion the 335 was the top achievement of the twin engined PROP 'heavy fighter' concept.
> Her problem was that the new jest age made her already obsolete, like all the last generation prop planes.
> 
> It had a speed advantage on the contemporary prop fighters, MAYBE would have kept this advantage with further development (if the new prop Allied fighter were faster than the 1945 models, the 335 had her whole potential to develop too) but could have never kept the pace with the jets.
> ...



IMHO - when you compare performance with respect to ceiling, top speed, dive, turn, climb and acceleration with the top FIGHTER designs in early 1945.. you are looking at the Tempests, the Fw190D's, the Ta152s, the Spits, the La7s, 51H, P-47N, P38L etc- they were ALL bumping limitations to a.) aerodynamics, b.) basic design parameters such as wing loading, weights, wing design, etc and c.) engine performance at a Thrust to Weight and high altitutde capabilities.

While I woul have a hard time arguing against the Ta152 as the 'best' in many categories - in my opinion, in the hands of excellent fighter pilots with experience and skill fighting each other there would not be that much to choose from given that the skill of the pilots kept the engagement out of the arena of least performance.. in other words don't fight an Fw190A7 with a 51D on the deck - or attempt to engage a Ta152 at 36,000 feet with a Tempest.

The 47J/N, the 51H and future M, the Ta152, the Fw190D-13, the F-8F, the Spits were all bumping limitations due to critical Mach, prop performance, engine aspiration etc. so none was going to achieve a great performance leap over the others from mid 1945 forward...


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## SoD Stitch (Aug 9, 2007)

Parmigiano said:


> In my opinion the 335 was the top achievement of the twin engined PROP 'heavy fighter' concept.
> Her problem was that the new jest age made her already obsolete, like all the last generation prop planes.
> 
> It had a speed advantage on the contemporary prop fighters, MAYBE would have kept this advantage with further development (if the new prop Allied fighter were faster than the 1945 models, the 335 had her whole potential to develop too) but could have never kept the pace with the jets.
> ...



You said it very well . . . however, in the last paragraph, you mentioned something I hadn't really ever thought about before: even assuming the War had continued another year or two, for all it's technical acheivements and performance potential, the -335 would have easily fallen prey to any of the jets. It would have been prey to even the "slowest" jets ("slow" being relative); the Meteor, which was the slowest of the first-generation jets, could have easily overtaken a _Pfeil_. So the -335 was basically obsolete before it even had a chance to become operational.


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## merlin (Aug 9, 2007)

Al of the above shows that the Do-335, was an ingenious answer to the problems of a twin-engined fighter - but too late. It needed to be in Squadron service in '43 when it's range and firepower would have had a dramatic effect of Allied bomber formations.
Perhaps Dornier should have been charged with producing a Germanised Fokker D.XXIII, which could have evolved, and been in time!?


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## The Basket (Aug 9, 2007)

Eric Brown flew Do 335s and he said they were plagued with teething faults.

Could have been fixed with time but they had no time.

Could have been a devastating nightfighter which is probably where it was going.

One of the clever German designs that did absolutely zip.


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## Hollywood (Mar 9, 2008)

The Ta152H was the ultimate prop job for 1945 IMHO.... It became "second class" only because of the development of jet technology.


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## Soren (Mar 9, 2008)

Hans Werner Lerche, test pilot of the Do-335, loved the a/c and mentions its excellent handling at all speeds, plus its great performance. 

However that having been said, the Do-335 IMO while a great piston engined a/c, was unnecessary seeing that the LW already possessed a fighter with better capabilities. The Me-262 was allot faster than the Do-335 and carried the best armament for shooting down bombers.

As for the topic, well the Ta-152H-1 is the best by far.


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## Erich (Mar 9, 2008)

the Do 335 was useless oversized piece of garbage, Clostermann never met one and the only time it flew was in the testing stage from one field to another or a flyby and turn around that is fact. the 262 and the tech advances in the jet industry made the Do 335 only a test piece for push, pull technology one reason why any further development was just dropped

I have a late war pic of 3-4 Do's just sitting on a field derilict and busted open by the Germans so they would not be captured totally intact

the Do and the Ta cannot even be fairly compared


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## HoHun (Mar 9, 2008)

Hi Erich,

>the Do and the Ta cannot even be fairly compared

For a fair comparison of the airframes, you'd have to eliminate the engine from the equation.

Equipped with the Jumo 213E installed in the Focke-Wulf Ta 152H, which was considerably more powerful than the DB 603A which drove the early Dornier Do 335, the type could have achieved top speeds of 800 km/h or better.

The Do 335 might not have made a great dogfighter, but it sure was fast.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## Soren (Mar 9, 2008)

Still it wasn't fast enough. The Me-262 was allot faster, lighter and carried a more powerful armament.

The Do-335 is an impressive piston engined a/c, no doubt, but another a/c [Me262] already filled out its intended role far more efficiently than the Do-335 could ever hope to do.

The future was coming with the Me-262.

As for comparing the Do-335 with the Ta-152H, well they were two different types of aircraft intended for two different roles. However they both resembled the pinnacle of piston engined aircraft design.


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## red admiral (Mar 9, 2008)

The Do-335 suffered from cooling problems with the rear engine when running at high powers. The engine would overheat so the rear exhaust flaps had to be opened, which would cause the aircraft to porpoise at high speed. The problems would most likely have been solved with time, but time wasn't available. The Me-262 was probably better for the application anyway.

Compared to the similar sized d.H. Hornet, the Do-335 arrangement doesn't seem to offer a great many advantages for the problems it caused.


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## davparlr (Mar 10, 2008)

In order to assess the effectiveness of these two aircraft, we need to examine their capability against allied aircraft, not including jets, they would have met in the summer of 1945, the P-51H, and P-47M, and let’s throw in the F4U-4 for fun. Aircraft are listed from best to worst.

Wing Loading, Gross (lbs/wing area)
F4U-4 39.6
P-51H 40.4
Ta-152H 41.7
P-47M 43.1
Do-335 51.0

Power Loading,Gross-SL (wt/hp)
P-51H 4.3
F4U-4 5.06
P-47M 5.1
Ta-152H 5.1
Do-335 5.8

Power Loading-25k
P-47M 4.74
P-51H 5.94 
F4U-4 6.9
Ta-152H 7.48
Do-335 unk

Power loading-30k
P-47M 4.74
P-51H 7.11
F4U-4 7.3
Ta-152H 7.8
Do-335 ukn

Airspeed-SL (mph)
P-51H 410 mph
F4U-4 374
Ta-152H 370
P-47M 365
Do-335 ukn

Airspeed 25k
Do-335 474 (at 21k)
P-51H 466
P-47M 453
Ta -152 449
F4U-4 448

Airspeed 30k
P-47M 467
Ta-152H 463
P-51H 448
F4U-4 442
Do-335 unk

Rate of climb, SL (ft/min)
P-51H 4600 
P-47M 4000
F4U-4 3600 (at mil rated power, not WEP)
Ta-152H 3445 (only data I’ve seen)
Do-335 2165 

Rate of climb, 25k
Ta-152 unk, 2854 at 29k
P-47M 3000
F4U-4 2700 at mil power, not WEP
P-51H 2350
Do-335 unk

Ceiling (ft.)
Ta-152H 49540
P-41H 41600
F4U-4 41600
P-47M 41000
Do-335 37400

Of course, this doesn’t show all the comparison and some I don’t have, especially with the Do-335 and its DB-603E engine. But we can come up with some trends. One, the Do-335 is very heavy, with a loaded weight of 21,120 lbs (about the weight of the A-20 attack bomber) and this shows up in its poor power loading and wing loading. This also appears to impact its rate of climb and time to climb (I only had time-to-climb for the V-1 version which has a slightly less powerful engine. Time to climb to 26k was 14.5 min compared to the 7 min for the P-51H). Also, its ceiling was the lowest of the bunch. It is very fast at 21k ft make 474 mph, but not far off from the P-51H which most likely has quite a superior climb and power loading. This airspeed difference (less than 10 mph) is not enough to make an overpowering aircraft, as the speed advantage of the Me-262 did.

The power curve for the P-47M is amazing with basically a level 2800 hp from10k to 33k+, which shows up on its impressive power loading.

Below 25k ft., both the P-51H and F4U-4 would be formidable opposition to both the Do-335 and Ta-152H. The P-47M really comes into its own from 25k to about 33k due to its large power loading advantage. At around 30k rate of climb drops off.

Ta-152H would pretty well contest the airspace above 25k and dominate above 30k.

There was no need for the Do-335. It did not add enough performance to warrant development. Time, money and energy would have been better spent on the Ta-152H, or better yet all effort should have been on building the Me-262 as a fighter in ’44. Now that would have made a difference.


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## Soren (Mar 10, 2008)

Davparlr,

As has often been stated the 3,444 ft/min climb rate was achieved when running at Steig u. Kampfleistung. At SonderNotleistung the Ta-152H's climb rate is over 5,000 ft/min atleast, and with the Jumo 213 EB which was ready by wars end this would've increased even further.

The top SL speed varied from 585 - 597 km/h, while top speed at alt was 760+ km/h.

Furthermore the wingloading figures are as we both know useless really, esp. considering the many differences in wing airfoil designs between these aircraft. 

The Ta-152H benefitted from using a very high lift airfoil (NACA 23000 series) whilst it also featured a very high AR wing design, increasing lift even further whilst significantly decreasing drag, esp. in maneuvers. 

The Do-335 featured the same NACA 23000 airfoil, however it was a VERY thick airfoil (Root: 23018 Tip: 23012), which means a higher amount of lift, however the AR of the wing wasn't very high, increasing drag in maneuvers. 

*Do-335*
Wing span: 13.8 m
Wing area: 38.5 m^2
Wing AR: 4.94
Empty weight: 7,260 kg
Loaded weight: 8,590 kg
Max loaded weight: 9,600 kg


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## AVRoe (Mar 10, 2008)

I have to look in to this at work(dornier)


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## HoHun (Mar 10, 2008)

Hi Davparlr,

>Airspeed 25k
>Do-335 474 (at 21k)
>P-51H 466
>P-47M 453
>Ta -152 449
>F4U-4 448

Good approach to use speeds at identical altitude!

That the Do 335 reaches its top speed below 25000 ft, yet is the fastest in the group shows its main strength: Straight-line speed. With the engine of the Ta 152H, it could - according to my peronsal estimate - probably have reached 500 mph at about 25000 ft, and about the same speed at 36000 ft. (Being slower in between.)

Note that the advantage of the Do 335 over the Ta 152H is greater at 25000 ft than at 36000 ft due to the small wing of the Do 335. It would have benefitted from a larger wing, and I seem to remember reading about plans to implement one.

>There was no need for the Do-335. It did not add enough performance to warrant development. 

The Do 335's primary strength was straight-line speed, and it could have exceeded the Allied propeller fighters' performance by a fair margin in that regard. It would not have matched their climb or turn rate. The Do 335 took second place to the jet fighter, but if jet technology had met an unexpected obstacle, the Do 335 would still have meant a technological advantage for the Luftwaffe, albeit of reduced magnitude.

One thing to keep in mind is that early jet engines were not that powerful at high altitude, and accordinlgy, a large-wing Do 335 variant might have been a better interceptor for high-flying B-29 bombers than a Me 262.

Just to show the factors that might have played a role in the development of the Do 335 - it might not have been needed in the "scenario" that unfolded historically, but if history had taken a slightly different road than the one we're familiar with, the Do 335 might have turned out to be a very useful development after all.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## Soren (Mar 10, 2008)

Hohun,

You're right about a larger/longer wing being planned for the Do-335, the AR being increased, and with the Jumo 213 EB this would've amde for a very potent high alt bomber interceptor. Armed with two Mk-103's it would've layed waste to the bombers from ranges where they had no hope of firing back.

You can see the planned development on this drawing:


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## davparlr (Mar 12, 2008)

HoHun said:


> Hi Davparlr,
> 
> >Airspeed 25k
> >Do-335 474 (at 21k)
> ...



I am not sure as I do not have any data on the DB 603E and its supercharger implementation. The low ceiling, however, tends to imply that the aircraft is more tuned to lower altitude performance (25k and below). As for 500 mph, I think that the piston powered aircraft was pretty well reaching its perfomance limit in speed and several aircraft claimed to have flown 500 mph, all of which I am skeptical of, if nothing more than lack of proper instrumentation. The XP-72, with 3000 hp at 25k, was claimed have achieved 500 mph but apparently the pilot denied it. I believe him. It apparently did go 480-490 mph, which I have some skepticism about, but it did have 3000 hp and the P-47 airframe was proven to be fast. By the time the Do-335 began flying, the XP-72 had been cancelled due to changing need for a escort fighter and not an interceptor, and most likely the promised performance of the upcoming jets. It is interesting to note that the engine in the XP-72, while at the time the most powerful piston engine in WWII, eventually obtained over 4000 hp in later years.



> The Do 335's primary strength was straight-line speed, and it could have exceeded the Allied propeller fighters' performance by a fair margin in that regard. It would not have matched their climb or turn rate. The Do 335 took second place to the jet fighter, but if jet technology had met an unexpected obstacle, the Do 335 would still have meant a technological advantage for the Luftwaffe, albeit of reduced magnitude.



True, I did not think of this.


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## HoHun (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi Davparlr,

>I am not sure as I do not have any data on the DB 603E and its supercharger implementation. The low ceiling, however, tends to imply that the aircraft is more tuned to lower altitude performance (25k and below). 

The aerodynamical advantage of the Do 335 is evident from the height differential for roughly equal top speed since at low altitude, it is handicapped by the greater drag of the denser air. If you look at speed over altitude diagrams of WW2 fighters, speed invariably increases with altitude until the full through height of the engine is reached. (Since many engines had two supercharger speeds, they had two full-throttle heights, giving the familiar "sawtooth" look of so many curves.)

In short, if you provide the Do 335 with an engine of equal power but greater full throttle height that matches those of the fighters it's compared against, it will be faster than it was at 21000 ft, where it was as fast in terms of true airspeed as the others at 25000 ft.

(The low ceiling you observed is caused not only by the engine characteristics, but also by the relatively small wing.)

>As for 500 mph, I think that the piston powered aircraft was pretty well reaching its perfomance limit in speed and several aircraft claimed to have flown 500 mph, all of which I am skeptical of, if nothing more than lack of proper instrumentation. 

I absolutely agree on the value of caution. In fact, I'd have been disappointed if the 500 mph figure I suggested would not have been met with skepticism  

All I can say is that I have calculated it carefully, and don't mean it to be the final word on the type anyway. I just thought quoting an actual figure I personally consider realistic would be better than simply writing "It would have been very, very fast" 

>By the time the Do-335 began flying, the XP-72 had been cancelled due to changing need for a escort fighter and not an interceptor, and most likely the promised performance of the upcoming jets. 

Quite right - in fact, there was some disappointment among Luftwaffe officers assigned to the secret Do 335 project when they learned it was not going to be a jet aircraft. The technological landslide is also evident from some later Do 335 spin-off paper projects that showed the rear engine being replaced by a turbojet, a configuration which resembles the later (and actually built) Ryan Fireball fighter.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## davparlr (Mar 13, 2008)

HoHun said:


> Hi Davparlr,
> 
> >
> The aerodynamical advantage of the Do 335 is evident from the height differential for roughly equal top speed since at low altitude, it is handicapped by the greater drag of the denser air. If you look at speed over altitude diagrams of WW2 fighters, speed invariably increases with altitude until the full through height of the engine is reached. (Since many engines had two supercharger speeds, they had two full-throttle heights, giving the familiar "sawtooth" look of so many curves.)


No doubt that the D0-335 was the cleanest of all two engine designs (except possibly one with a counterrotating prop, but I don't know any designs that uses that combination. Several single engine planes tried it, but it was complex).



> In short, if you provide the Do 335 with an engine of equal power but greater full throttle height that matches those of the fighters it's compared against, it will be faster than it was at 21000 ft, where it was as fast in terms of true airspeed as the others at 25000 ft.



I just have no idea of the thrust profile of the engine. Also, It would have been nice to have a SL top speed.




> All I can say is that I have calculated it carefully, and don't mean it to be the final word on the type anyway. I just thought quoting an actual figure I personally consider realistic would be better than simply writing "It would have been very, very fast"



No doubt about this. It should have been very fast.


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## Zarathos (Mar 13, 2008)

> Also, It would have been nice to have a SL top speed.



SL - sea level? If yes, then its 580 km/h (360 mph).


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## davparlr (Mar 14, 2008)

Zarathos said:


> SL - sea level? If yes, then its 580 km/h (360 mph).



Is your data good? Is it the last version, I think, the A? 360 mph is the slowest of the bunch:

Airspeed-SL (mph)
P-51H 410 mph
F4U-4 374
Ta-152H 370
P-47M 365


It is a big aircraft but it has, by far, the most HP, 3600.

Do you have any more performance numbers for the Do-335?


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## Zarathos (Mar 14, 2008)

It's based on polish book "Samoloty Luftwaffe" ("Luftwaffe airplanes"), by Marek Murawski and is in Poland considered as a good resource about German ww2 planes, so I think it's accurate.

According to the book Do 335A-1 SL speed was 580 km/h (or 360 mph). The Do 335 V1 (CP+UA), flown by Flugkapitan Hans Dieterle, in fourth flight, reached 600 km/h near ground (373 mph), but it was unarmed prototype and before changes made to solve problems with rear engine overheating.



> Is your data good? Is it the last version, I think, the A?



Yes, it's for A-1 version. But A-1 was not the last verion of Do 335. The last version was B, or better to say, the pre-production prototype of B-2 version: Do 335 V13 (RP+UP). It made it's first flight at 31 october 1944. 



> Do you have any more performance numbers for the Do-335?



A little:

Engines: 2 DB 603E-1 engines, take-off power 1825 hp

Armament: 1 MK 103 cannon (30 mm, 70 rounds), 2 MG 151 cannons (15 mm, 200 rounds). Ability to take 1 SC or SD 500 bomb (500 kg) or 2 SC 250 (250 kg) bombs.

Speeds:
0m - 580 km/h (360 mph)
6400m (21000 ft) - 763 km/h (474 mph)
optimal cruising speed - 685 km/h (426 mph) at 7100 m (23350 ft)
best economic speed - 472 km/h (293 mph) at 6000 m (19700 ft)
landing speed - 180 km/h (112 mph)

Time to 6000 m (19700 ft) - 10 minutes
Best rate of climb - 23 m/s (4539 ft/min), but I dont have any data about altitude for that climbing rate.

Practical ceiling - 11400 m (37500 ft)
Range - 1380 km (858 miles)
Empty weight - 7400 kg (16335 pounds)
Starting weight - 9610 kg (21214 pounds)

I have somewhere monography of Do 335 (somewhere, I have to find it - my primary area of studies are VVS and LWP (Polish People Army) planes. When I find it, I'll post more data.


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## davparlr (Mar 14, 2008)

Thanks for the info. I have very little on the Do-335.


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## HoHun (Mar 15, 2008)

Hi Davparlr,

>I just have no idea of the thrust profile of the engine. Also, It would have been nice to have a SL top speed.

Unfortuntely, there are not many well-documented data points for the Dornier Do 335 around, and the speeds I have seen mentioned often do not specify the power settings.

I think that the 762 km/h top speed figure must have been reached on emergency power, so it's possible to reverse-engineer the Do 335 speed curve from the engine power curve as given in von Gersdorff et al. - result attached.

(Additionally, there is quite a bit of variation in the Do 335 data as the early development planes were all configured a bit differently, and as their role was it to work the bugs out, not all were up to full performance either.)

Accordingly, my curve can be seen only as a rough analysis.

(I have included a speed curve for the Ta 152H-1 from a German WW2 chart as that's the comparison suggested by the thread title 

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## HoHun (Mar 15, 2008)

Hi again,

Additionally, here is a comparison of the power plants of the two types.

The higher speed of the Do 335 on the less powerful engine suggests that the Dornier could have been considerably faster than the Ta 152H-1 if it had received the Jumo 213E, too.

The advantage of the Jumo 213E is actually even greater than the shaft power chart suggests as the Jumo 213 series engines reportedly had a higher exhaust thrust output than the DB603 series engines and, more importantly, exhaust thrust of the three-speed supercharged Jumo 213E dropped off only above 9700 m (static), while the DB603A dropped off at 5700 m already.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## Denniss (Mar 18, 2008)

The Do 335 used the standard MG151 - the 20mm version. The original, 15mm, version might have been existed in 1945 but was pretty useless.

I have the following data for DB 603 engines:
DB603A
1750PS take-off power at sea level, rated alt of 5.7km
DB603AA
1670PS take-off power at sea level, rated alt of 7.3km
DB603E
1800PS take-off power at sea level, rated alt of 7.0km

It's highly questionable to assume the Do335 used the old 603A except in prototypes, production versions either used the AA or E. Even the He 219 switched to the higher-powered 603AA in Summer 1944 and was to get the 603E in late 1944 so why should a high-performance fighter used this old engine with the low rated alt ?


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## HoHun (Mar 18, 2008)

Hi Denniss,

>The Do 335 used the standard MG151 - the 20mm version. The original, 15mm, version might have been existed in 1945 but was pretty useless.

From what I've read in a contemporary firepower analysis report reproduced in "Luftfahrt International", the MG 151/15 was considered as a supplementary weapon to the MK 103, probably because of a similar muzzle velocity and trajectory. This might have been the justification for the 15 mm version appearing in late-war documents ... quite without doubt, the 20 mm version was much more effective by itself.

>It's highly questionable to assume the Do335 used the old 603A except in prototypes, production versions either used the AA or E. 

Roger that, I've been using the DB603A only because it was used for the well-known 762 km/h top speed of the pre-series aircraft.

With regard to the DB603E, both Regnat and Griehl in their books on the type note that W.-Nr. 23014 - a pattern aircraft for the Do 335B-2 destroyer series equipped with the MK103 wing guns - when tested by the French on 25.4.1947 achieved 700 km/h at 1.5 km altitude. That's about 30 km/h faster than the speeds I indicated above, in spite of the additional drag of the wing cannon.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## Denniss (Mar 19, 2008)

But the 15mm MG 151 would have to be explicity stated as the 15 mm version (MG 151/15). All references to MG 151 in wartime docs of at least 1944 (maybe even 1943) pointed to the then-standard MG 151/20.


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## HoHun (Mar 19, 2008)

Hi Denniss,

>But the 15mm MG 151 would have to be explicity stated as the 15 mm version (MG 151/15). All references to MG 151 in wartime docs of at least 1944 (maybe even 1943) pointed to the then-standard MG 151/20.

At least, that's the more likely interpretation if the calibre is not given  I don't know where the idea of the Do 335 - in some versions - was supposed to be armed with MG 151/15 cannon originated. Maybe it's just a simple misunderstanding, but if there is something better, I'd figure that the trajectory match to the MK103 that was obviously considered within the Luftwaffe might be the reason.

The document I mentioned is summarized here:

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/info-me262-big-gun-nose-2905.html#post298384

(In case the link does not take you to the exact post in that thread, it's post #36.)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## Soren (Mar 19, 2008)

I have to agree with HoHun, the trajectory of the Mk103 MG151/15 are very similar. And even by 1945 the MG151/15 was a very devastating armament.


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## SoD Stitch (Sep 3, 2008)

Denniss said:


> But the 15mm MG 151 would have to be explicity stated as the 15 mm version (MG 151/15). All references to MG 151 in wartime docs of at least 1944 (maybe even 1943) pointed to the then-standard MG 151/20.



My understanding is that the MG 151/15 was used on the "A" variant, which used the lower-velocity (short-barrelled, _kurz_) Mk 103; whereas the more destructive MG 151/20 was used on the _Zerstorer_ "B" variant, which deleted the engine-mounted Mk 103 and, instead, used two long-barrelled Mk 103's mounted in the wings, thereby maintaining comparable muzzle velocities.


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## Erich (Sep 3, 2008)

the 2cm MG 151/20 would of been used not the 15 which was in 45 regulated to airfield defense and even front line combinations on the Ost front for the Heer

as stated earlier could esily have been a misprint in official documentation which was somewhat common in 44-45. Just checked a late war April of 45 document - German LW on primary source materials for in-house inventory for the LW, sorry but it was all wrong with inaccurate numbers and even giving some units Bf 109's when in fact all they had was Fw 190's.


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## drgondog (Sep 3, 2008)

SoD Stitch said:


> You are correct, the _Pfeil_ did not have a "service record", as no units ever reached operational status before the end of the War.
> 
> However, on at least one well-documented occasion, a Do-335 was able to "walk away" from a flight of P-51's, without the Mustangs even managing to get in a shot, due to the -335's superior speed. As I said, the smart LW pilot would've used the _Pfeil's_ advantages to his benefit, not gotten tangled up in a furball with a bunch of more manueverable Mustangs.
> 
> ...



In 1945, pretty true even though LW occasionally got local superiority. The big difference was the average pilot skills. "Math" is all about LW controllers exploiting holes in the bomber stream, late R/V's, missed R/V's.. etc.

The LW even got some examples of loacal air superiority in Nov/Dec 1944 but not able to exploit their advantage because of too mang kids with only a couple of missions behind them - flying against a talented and confident and well trained bunch of RAF and US and Sov fighter pilots - who also could put up numbers no worse than 1:2 or 1:3 fighter vs fighter at the point of attack no matter where along a 400 mile track


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## lesofprimus (Sep 4, 2008)

Glad to see u back around here Bill, was wonderin about u...


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## KrazyKraut (Sep 4, 2008)

I wonder why people think the Do 335 was much better vs. bombers than the Ta 152. In the configurations that were any close to combat ready it had one MK 103 and two 2cm (probably) MG 151s. That's nice but it's not really a lot better than one MK 108 and the same two 2cms.

In theory the 103 could hit bombers from beyond the range of their defensive gunners, but since the 335s would've (most likely) attacked in a manner similar to the Me 262 the difference between the two guns would've been insignificant.

Either that or you try to pick bombers from beyond 600m (like the Zerstorer Me 410s) and lose all your speed advantage over escort fighters.


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## Soren (Sep 4, 2008)

Well had the Do-335 entered service then the version tasked with fighting the bombers would've most likely been armed with 3x Mk103 cannons plus the 2x MG151/20's. The Do-335 could no doubt also take more damage than the Ta-152 could, and crucially it could also operate as a two seat nightfighter. The Ta-152H was designed purely to be a fighter, not a bomber interceptor, and was therefore limited to that role. 

So the Do-335 was definitely a useful design....HOWEVER, as with every other piston engined fighter it was rendered unnecessary obsolete by the Me-262 which outdid it in every aspect.


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## KrazyKraut (Sep 4, 2008)

How bad would the extra 2 MK 103s have affected its performance though? The advantage I see is that it could've made it home in case defensive gunners disabled the forward engine (though that would make it easy prey for escorting fighters). Considering the two DB-603s could power two of the later Fw 109 Doras or Ta-152 Cs, those may have been the better application. The Do could've made a good nightfighter and fast bomber (then again the Ar 234 was still better at that). The question is how bad of a bottleneck the engines were compared to airframes and pilot availability.


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## KrazyKraut (Sep 4, 2008)

HoHun said:


> Hi Davparlr,
> 
> >I just have no idea of the thrust profile of the engine. Also, It would have been nice to have a SL top speed.
> 
> ...


There actually was a direct comparison in a recent issue of a German aircraft magazine (Flugzeug Revue??), maybe someone's got the issue? I seem to recall the data for the Do 335 was all projected though.

EDIT: I found it: FLUGZEUG CLASSIC - Ausgabe 07/08 - Shop - flugzeugclassic.de - Oldtimer der LÃ¼fte


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## SoD Stitch (Sep 4, 2008)

KrazyKraut said:


> How bad would the extra 2 MK 103s have affected its performance though? The advantage I see is that it could've made it home in case defensive gunners disabled the forward engine (though that would make it easy prey for escorting fighters). Considering the two DB-603s could power two of the later Fw 109 Doras or Ta-152 Cs, those may have been the better application. The Do could've made a good nightfighter and fast bomber (then again the Ar 234 was still better at that). The question is how bad of a bottleneck the engines were compared to airframes and pilot availability.



I don't know how badly the additional armament would've affected the 335's performance, probably not that much; the 335 was already fairly heavy (almost 20,000 lbs. all up), so a couple of 500 lbs. cannons probably wouldn't have made much difference. Also, they had streamlined fairings over the barrels, so there probably was very little drag penalty associated with the long-barrelled (_lang_) Mk 103's (see picture below).

As for the engines, the Doras and the -152's used the more powerful Jumo Ju 213, not the DB 603, so there was no conflict there; in fact, IMHO, the 335 probably would've been a better a/c with Ju 213's, but they were all going to the Doras, the -152's, and the Ju 188 at the end of the War, so they weren't available for the 335.

And, yes, the -335 would've made an excellent _nachtjager_, especially with the heavier armament installed. There was actually one _nachtjager_ version (A-6) completed before the end of the War, but it never left the factory.


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## KrazyKraut (Sep 4, 2008)

SoD Stitch said:


> As for the engines, the Doras and the -152's used the more powerful Jumo Ju 213, not the DB 603, so there was no conflict there; in fact, IMHO, the 335 probably would've been a better a/c with Ju 213's, but they were all going to the Doras, the -152's, and the Ju 188 at the end of the War, so they weren't available for the 335.


The Ta 152 C (3-5 prototypes iirc) and according to some sources the Fw 190 D-15 (projected) were designed around the DB 603, though. Tank favoured the DB 603 over the Jumo, it was better at high altitude and had a better potential for further development.


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## HoHun (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi Krazykraut,

>How bad would the extra 2 MK 103s have affected its performance though?

As I pointed out above, both Regnat and Griehl in their books on the type note that W.-Nr. 23014 - a pattern aircraft for the Do 335B-2 destroyer series equipped with the MK103 wing guns - when tested by the French on 25.4.1947 achieved 700 km/h at 1.5 km altitude. 

That's about 30 km/h faster than the speeds I indicated above, in spite of the additional drag of the wing cannon.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## HoHun (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi Krazykraut,

>There actually was a direct comparison in a recent issue of a German aircraft magazine (Flugzeug Revue??), maybe someone's got the issue? I seem to recall the data for the Do 335 was all projected though.

The reason for the need to project data was that the investigated version was the Do 335C with enlarged wing of 45.5 m^2 for which no flight data was available.

Both Focke-Wulf and Dornier were asked to prepare a calculation based on their companies' standard methods for identical parameters for the Ta 152H and the Do 335C.

Both companies agreed that the Do 335 would be 33 km/h faster than the Ta 152H at sea level with both aircraft at emergency power, and 53 km/h (Focke-Wulf) or 58 km/h (Dornier) faster at full throttle height.

The Dornier calculations for the Do 335C from the reproduced speed graph show an absolute emergency power top speed of about 772 km/h @ 11.5 km. 

There are more figures in the article, but in my opinion the article is rather confusing and I wish Hermann had published at least two or three pages besides the Dornier speed graph from the original reports to help me make sense of the figures.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## Erich (Sep 4, 2008)

the Do 335 as a night fighter would of been dropped there was no need for it when the Me 262B-2a was ready that I have tech data and will be included in my book. the Do 335 was not ready to include AI as well in the prototype stage and sadly for the much larger bird no operational testing which I still go back to and yes it's a thorn in your flesh but without the proof needed, it all becomes speculation gentlemen. the single seat 262 had already proven itself the twin seater as well in a short two months of action. too bad I cannot become more positive about all of this concerning the big bird ........


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## Kurfürst (Sep 10, 2008)

Hmmm, would not the Do 335s greater endurance come in handy for night-fighting purposes vs the higher top speed of the Me 262, which OTOH had very short endurance in comparison?

I kinda like the Do 335. The Zestörer/multi role idea is not a bad thing, but sadly it was not until the Do 335 a design could actually deliver the same performance as SE fighters in a twin-engined design..


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## kool kitty89 (Sep 10, 2008)

If you want longer endurance, there's the Ar 234 to consider. (and there were ways of improving the 262's endurance: drop tanks, switching to BMW 003E's)


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## HoHun (Sep 11, 2008)

Hi Kurfürst,

>Hmmm, would not the Do 335s greater endurance come in handy for night-fighting purposes vs the higher top speed of the Me 262, which OTOH had very short endurance in comparison?

I believe that for night-fighting, the Dornier Do 335 would have offered a number of advantages over the Messerschmitt Me 262, for example a shorter take-off run, better low-speed thrust, safe single-engine characteristics even in a go-around, a shorter ground run (especially if equipped with a reversible-pitch propeller), and better speed control in the air due to the drag created by the propellers when the throttle is pulled back. Endurance is an advantage as well, though of course a faster aircraft can intercept its target in a shorter time, so the advantage would not be quite as great as one might think at first.

Since night fighters were often flying under adverse conditions, the operational safety offered by the Do 335's unique layout should not be overlooked. At night, a single-engine landing in a Me 262 certainly would be far more difficult (and dangerous) than a single-engine landing in a Do 335.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)


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## dornier335nut (Oct 15, 2008)

Erich said:


> the Do 335 as a night fighter would of been dropped there was no need for it when the Me 262B-2a was ready that I have tech data and will be included in my book.




Erich, which book is this? I'm interested.

Nicholas


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## Erich (Oct 15, 2008)

Moskito-jagd über Deutschland

it is in preparation ~ of over 30 years of research, I have never spent so much time on anything in all my life ........

E ~


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## dornier335nut (Oct 15, 2008)

Erich said:


> Moskito-jagd über Deutschland
> 
> it is in preparation ~ of over 30 years of research, I have never spent so much time on anything in all my life ........
> 
> E ~





What is it about? Enlighten me please>


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## Airframes (Oct 15, 2008)

Moskito fighter (hunter) over Germany? Will it be published in English at all Erich, and, if so, do you know yet when it might be released? I understand that this might be a difficult question, as I realise the ways of the publishing world, especially if it is still work in progress. I would be very interested in obtaining a copy.
I can well understand how much work, in fact sheer dedication, you must have put into this. I am hoping to have a novel published soon, and that (almost) drained me, just on the research, double checking and so on. And I only spent about eight months! Thirty years is some dedication! You have my deepest respect and admiration.
Terry.


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## Soren (Oct 15, 2008)

"Mosquito hunt over Germany" it means


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## Airframes (Oct 15, 2008)

Ah, got it! I thought it might have been in the context of the FW Moskito hunting, although I realise it didn't see service, or did it? I'm a bit hazy on that part of air operations.
Anyway Erich, I'd still be interested to learn more about your book, whether Moskito or Mosquito!
Terry.


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## Soren (Oct 15, 2008)

I think it revovles around Germany's anti night fighter force hunting down the De Havilland Mosquito's over Germany which were preying on their own nightfighters. The He-219 Uhu was used in this role as well as Bf-109's Me-262's, the last two being the most effective.


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## Erich (Oct 15, 2008)

well I really do not need to say more as you guys seem to be on it. there has been a down time for about 5-6 years due to my author-friends changes in his own life......and the EE's JG 300 volumes as we knew that some of our anti-Mossie data would be included at some point.

we will start the book about the effects that the Mossies had on the German society/LW hierarchy and the solutions proposed to put a stop to it.
Special emphasis on the LW nf's that were developed and those that were modified to chase the Mosquito bomber/recon/nf.

important personalities will be covered, pilots, crews of the LW, first person accounts from both sides of the air conflict, maps, routes taken by the LSNF, the LW NF's in response, LW airfields, the chain and network of the LW searchlights and patterns. the Lw Nachtjagd units that flew on the missions.

some 750 photos though for the sake of a single volume has to be really downsized

all that in a nutshell, and will probably discuss Kommando Welter like no other book has ever done with the 262 leading up to the twin seaters and experimentations of the Jet during the war and what may have been had it continued another year longer


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## Soren (Oct 15, 2008)

I am personally really looking forward to that book, will be a great read no doubt.


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## Airframes (Oct 15, 2008)

Great read? Sounds phenomenal! I'm really looking forward to it, especially as I knew two or three Mossie pilots. One chap I used to work with in my 'civvy' job, had been on the night Mossies, and once told me a bit about the LW night defence 'hunters'. Sadly, he's now passed on, otherwise I might have been able to get some info that would have possibly been of use.


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## KrazyKraut (Oct 24, 2008)

I thought this might be of relevance. It's from an experience report of the E-Kdo.335 printed in a German magazine. The report is from January 23rd, 1945:


> The main difficulties are:
> 
> Landing Gear: is too weak, doesn't retract in 80 per cent of the conducted flights, wrong construction
> Hydraulics: especially unreliable concerning the landing gear when retracted
> ...


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## Juha (Oct 24, 2008)

Very interesting!
Thanks a lot, KrazyKraut

Juha


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## KrazyKraut (Oct 24, 2008)

Thank you, Juha

The report goes on with a short summary of possible further use for the Do. I will maybe translate that tomorrow. The article itself draws the conclusion (and I tend to agree), that by 1945, the Do 335, as a destroyer, was in a similar position as the Me 410 was in '43-'44. Meaning that, while it was still able to conduct successful operations against unescorted bombers, it would require substantial fighter protection if escorts were there (which of course were there in abundance).

What remains is a possible use as recon or nightfighter, where it would face competition from the latest Ju 388 and Ar 234, but Erich will know more about this. So all in all its potential as a destroyer or fast bomber was wasted by constant changes regarding its prioritized role. I wonder what Dornier originally had in mind for it. It seems whoever wanted to stop the program altogether in favor of the Ta 152 should've gotten his way.


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## Juha (Oct 24, 2008)

Hello KrazyKraut
Sounds very interesting, I'm looking forward to it!

BTW "CO-Abdichtung not secure yet" maybe means Carbon monoxide sealing not secure yet ie CO still seeping into cockpit.

Juha


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## Erich (Oct 24, 2008)

I have found 0 evidence that the Do 335 was even going to be considered for future night time warfare, the Me 262B variants and the possible continued use of the Ar 234B-N was going to be the ticket for the LW if they lived long enough


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## KrazyKraut (Oct 24, 2008)

Hello Erich,

the report briefly mentions a Kommando Bertram where apparently the Do was under evaluation for 'Helle Nachtjagd'. The E-Kdo itself never conducted night flights.


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## Erich (Oct 24, 2008)

Bertram like several in NJG 100 on the Ost front were brought home to bring up new and very small Kommando's. did think he flew the Ar 234B-N experimentally at least 1-2 flights, not sure about the Do 335 as I still have no further word on the possibilities for the twin seater version

but according to your statement this would of been single seaters with the aid of ground based searchlight patterns like used in the fall of 1944 by 10.(N)/JG 300 Bf 109G-6/AS's


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## Watanbe (Oct 24, 2008)

As far as im concerned the Do-335 could have made a good bomber destroyer, but essentially its a pointless aircraft and a waste of time, resources and money. As Soren has said the 262 could perform all its roles at a higher standard.

There is nothing really wrong with the D0-335 but I don't understand why it was built


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## kool kitty89 (Oct 25, 2008)

Erich, were there any proposals on ways to improve the Me 262's endurance? (the most obvious would be switching to 003E engines, significantly smaller, lighter, and moderately more fuel efficient and with max thrust of ~921 kp at 30 sec overrev ~3% better than the 004B-4, along with better service life and handeling characteristics)

Were drop tanks already being used by the Me 262 night fighters?


Also, if you want to go into what ifs for piston engined fighters, I think the Fw 187 would have developed into a more capable a/c than the Do 335 and with the more compact late war radar, would have made a good night fighter as well.

I don't know if this was brought up yet, bu the Do 335 used a pretty thick airfoil (NACA 23018 ) which would have seriously limited max speed. (probably starting to run into compressibility problems arround .65 Mach which is about what it was at at top speed at 6,500 m)


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## KrazyKraut (Oct 25, 2008)

The reports mention no problems in flight considering the airfoil though. Development potential was certainly limited by the laws of physics. I doubt any production (piston) fighter aircraft would go much faster than 750-760km/h, even though it might be theoretically possible.

The Fw 187 is another matter. It might've become a good nightfighter but then, small radars were only available way to late. Carrying the design through to that point would not have been worth it. For daytime operations I see no reason why it should've done substantially better than the Me 410.

The Do 335 could've potentially been a good destroyer if it was designed for that role from the start. It was, however, originally designed to fulfill a specification asking for a fast bomber, hence the internal bomb bay. I wonder how it would've fared in that role but I smell problems when it comes to fast speed combined with no bombardier. 

It's multi-role looks proved to be its virtue and vice as they saved the design from being scrapped altogether but also led to constant changes in priorities which seriously delayed the project.

The best role the design could've fulfilled as is (without serious modifications) would've probably been the reconaissance role both near field and far. It combined long range and excellent speed and a good ceiling, basically it was born for this role. The high costs would've also been less of a factor then. Additional weight saving could've been achieved by reducing armament to only the 151s.


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## SoD Stitch (Oct 25, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Erich, were there any proposals on ways to improve the Me 262's endurance? (the most obvious would be switching to 003E engines, significantly smaller, lighter, and moderately more fuel efficient and with max thrust of ~921 kp at 30 sec overrev ~3% better than the 004B-4, along with better service life and handeling characteristics)
> 
> Were drop tanks already being used by the Me 262 night fighters?)



My best GUESS is that drop tanks could've been secured where the bombs on the _Sturmvogel_ were secured though, of course, this would have reduced the speed by 50 kmh, as did the bombs.



kool kitty89 said:


> I don't know if this was brought up yet, bu the Do 335 used a pretty thick airfoil (NACA 23018 ) which would have seriously limited max speed. (probably starting to run into compressibility problems arround .65 Mach which is about what it was at at top speed at 6,500 m)



There were proposals on the drawing board for an increased-span wing for the Do 435, but I don't know what the airfoil section was.


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## Juha (Oct 25, 2008)

Me 262 B-1a/U1 used drop tanks as standard and proposed night fighter version Me 262 B-2 with stretched fuselage would have restored internal fuel tankage. 

Juha


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## kool kitty89 (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks Juha, that confirms what I remembered.




KrazyKraut said:


> The reports mention no problems in flight considering the airfoil though. Development potential was certainly limited by the laws of physics. I doubt any production (piston) fighter aircraft would go much faster than 750-760km/h, even though it might be theoretically possible.
> 
> *I was thinking more of potential problems in dives.*
> 
> ...


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## KrazyKraut (Oct 29, 2008)

Evaluation report of the E-Kdo.335 continued:


> Assessment of possible fields of application:
> The aircraft Do 335 could be used successfully as a destroyer on sectors without strong fighter presence. The use of as a daytime single seater fighter aircraft would be comparable to the situation of the defence of the Reich with the Me 410 in the years 43/44. Despite higher speed and strong armament of the Do 335 the use as a heavy fighter will only be successful if absolute air superiority can be achieved. Bad maneouverability and inertness of the plane, as well as bad view to the rear will lead to inevitable inferiority in dogfights.
> 
> The arrangement of the engines lead to best possible performance in a two-engined design, meaning the final stadium considering performance potential for these designs has been reached. Production setup and resolution of technical deficiencies mean that the plane can enter combat in 1/4 year at best [end of april 1945].
> ...


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## Juha (Oct 29, 2008)

KrazyKraut
Thanks a lot again!

Juha


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