# movie "Flyboys"



## Aggie08 (Sep 17, 2006)

Does anyone have an insider look at this movie? I know just a little of world war 1 aviation, and I think if done right humongous dogfights in biplanes would look incredible. I hope they dont sell out for cheap explosions...


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## Wildcat (Sep 17, 2006)

I posted a trailer for this movie a while back. Does look interesting.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Sep 19, 2006)

I have seen a couple of explosions in the movie previews. Including one of a Zepplin exploding after being hit by a burning Fokker Dr. I. At the same time a german crewman is running away on top of the Zepplin from the flames, which he eventually perishes in. After all, there is no where off that thing but.....Down.

Reminds me a bit of a similar scene in the Unusual Disney film "The Rocketeer." Except that time it was a WWII Zepplin that exploded over the Hollywoodland Sign, killing one of it's finest actors in the process. He was in fact a Nazi spy trying to run away with US goverment secrets from the superhero Rocketeer who at the same time is trying to rescue his girlfriend. Sound interesting?


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## Aggie08 (Sep 24, 2006)

Haha, yes, very interesting. 

Has anyone seen the movie since it came out? I want a review by knowledgeable folks, not movie critics who cant tell spad from fokker.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 24, 2006)

Hmm cant wait to see it.


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 24, 2006)

I saw it Friday night. Not bad even though it was "Hollywooded." Good flying scenes, nice replicas and the story line wasn't that bad. Just makes the uninformed believe that WW1 was fought with just Neuport 17s and Fokker Tripes, although there was a token 11/2 Strutter and a Bristol Fighter.

Some other "funny things" which I'm sure many here will identify, see the flick if you got some extra dough or else wait for it to be on cable or rent it....


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Sep 26, 2006)

I saw a preview, nice special effects. Hope the historical accuracy is better than Pearl Harbor.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Sep 27, 2006)

FB how was it for the "America saved the world" factor?


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 27, 2006)

the lancaster kicks *** said:


> FB how was it for the "America saved the world" factor?


Actually I thought there was hardly none of that, in fact there was the "why aren't you guys in the war yet" situtaion shown, but of course there was a major announcement when the US entered the war.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Apr 26, 2007)

Just wondering, I have heard differant places that the manuvers in Flyboys are impossible for those kind WWI aircraft. They would have broken apart in mid air. So the movie was making false dogfighting moves just to make it more exciting.

Does anybody on here think that the plane manuvers were impossible or just irealistic for those planes strength?

Aside from the drama mixed in with the flying of course. That's always amped up. Like falling backwards on a Zepplin. Hard to do in real life?


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## Cyrano (Apr 26, 2007)




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## evangilder (Apr 26, 2007)

I saw it recently, and I enjoyed it. I have a lot of weird connections with that movie, so it was about darn time I saw it. I didn't see anything too crazy with the flying scenes. I have flown an air to air photo shoot with a Fokker DR.1 replica and it's performance characteristics were pretty good, but they reason for that is because it's pretty slow. We were in a Stearman, going through a pretty steep dive. When we levelled out and started to climb again, I could hear the Fokker winding out the engine, and we were still pulling away from him..._in a Stearman_! So I don't think the flying scenes were terribly unrealistic if you keep in mind the speeds that they were flying in those days.

The guys I flew with for that shoot did the testing of the new Sony Genesis camera with the airplanes with the professional cameramen from the studios. The camera was used for some of the visual scenes from Flyboys using real airplanes. The flying was done the same place I shot my air to air with them and it is a perfect place for that type of shoot. Here are some highlights from my shoot with them. Notic the angle in the shot with the cropped corners. I put the airplane level in the viewfinder because we were also diving at the time. I leveled it with the horizon so that you could see the angle that we were diving at.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 26, 2007)

Very nice shots!


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## evangilder (Apr 26, 2007)

Thanks. The first shot up there has won a number of awards and won a contest that was done for the DVD release of the movie. The coolest part of winning that contest is that the prize is a day at Air Combat USA. I will be flying aerial combat on June 2. This should be fun!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 26, 2007)

Very awesome! That is cool! If you can take some pictures in between shooting down people!


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## comiso90 (Apr 26, 2007)

Great shots Evan... I never realized how small those birds were (are).


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Apr 26, 2007)

Great shots of the Red Fokker! Too bad there are not more replica's in the world of original lost planes. 

What kind of plane will you be flying in combat evanglider?

And thanks for the information. I always thought those bi-planes could do amazing things for all their fragility. 



> All the gerries flew red Fokker Dr.I's. And there was the token black....not that I'm a racist, but goddamn, do we really need this racial bs on every movie?



Yeah, I figured the Red Fokkers everybody knows about and knows it's silly.

Blue Max is cooler, in that Max helpes out only one red fokker. And you also know who's the pilot of that Red Fokker. And the way it turns out is great, though painful for Blue Max. 




> And as far I know the gerries didn't commit any greater atrocities than the allies, so why are they still the bad guys! Always!



Not many pilots shot at "Downed Pilots" in those days. I think Richthofen in the later part of his career shot at downed planes and pilots. He was a "Hunter" after all. 

Flyboys is still exciting, in a CGI sort of way. I still can't always tell what shots are CGI or real of the planes, which I guess is a good thing! 8) 

A little silent film like "Wings" doesn't have to be boring either. For one thing, they use the Fokker DR. VII in it!

I also liked the S. E. 5 attack on the Zeppelin in "Zeppelin" (1971). The angles are nice.


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## evangilder (Apr 26, 2007)

You can check out what I will be flying and doing at 
.::Fighter Pilot for a Day - AirCombat Flying Adventures::.

Looking at the range of +6 to -3 g's capability on the aircraft, I think the camera should stay on the ground. I don't want to land with a pile of parts at my feet!


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## amrit (Apr 27, 2007)

Cyrano said:


> And there was the token black....not that I'm a racist, but goddamn, do we really need this racial bs on every movie?



You mean they actually acknowledged Eugene Bullard's existence - I'm quite surprised.

Eugene Bullard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The caption for the attached picture reads:



> Future Lafayette Escadrille members are Victor Chapman, center back row; Edmond Genet, seated center; William Dugan, Genet’s left; Eugene Bullard, Chapman’s left. Bullard was the first African-American pilot.



From: Americans in the French Air Service


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## timshatz (Apr 27, 2007)

Not to go against the general consensus here, but I thought "Flyboys" sucked. Really was a lousy movie. Airplane scenes were pretty cool. But the whole premiss was so contrived, the dialogue forced, it just annoyed me. Watched it with some of my family and a lot of eye rolling went on. 

On a different note, great pics of that Tri-plane Evan. Neat shots.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 27, 2007)

To me it was entertainment and passable at that, but it was not very accurate and therefore it will only be entertainment.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Apr 27, 2007)

> Really was a lousy movie.


Bummer.


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## mkloby (Apr 28, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> To me it was entertainment and passable at that, but it was not very accurate and therefore it will only be entertainment.



Nonsense. Shearing enemy birds' wings off with your landing gear is a long time honored method of air-to-air combat.


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## timshatz (Apr 29, 2007)

mkloby said:


> Nonsense. Shearing enemy birds' wings off with your landing gear is a long time honored method of air-to-air combat.



Right up there with looping and then shooting the guy with a pistol. Don't they still teach that one as a viable combat tactic at Pensacola?


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## evangilder (Apr 29, 2007)

When in doubt, keep a cup full of pennies in the cockpit. Let the enemy get close, then open the canopy and lob out a handful of pennies to FOD his engine.  Yeah, that's the ticket.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 29, 2007)

timshatz said:


> Right up there with looping and then shooting the guy with a pistol. Don't they still teach that one as a viable combat tactic at Pensacola?



Actually that was how the first air to air kills were recorded in WW1. The first aircraft were not fighters but rather Recon aircraft and they carried pistols obviously encase they crashed. When they saw another aircraft they would sometimes engage it with there pistol.


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## Njaco (Apr 29, 2007)

Evan, saw those pics on your website and I am absolutely envious of what you've done with pics and planes. You've got some great stories along with them.

That DrI was in the movie or just a promo?


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## evangilder (Apr 29, 2007)

Thanks Njaco. That particular DR.1 was used for testing the Sony Genesis camera. They mounted the camera on the bottom of a Stearman and the Fokker buzzed around and did some dogfight maneuvering with the Stearman to test the camera and train the camera operators (of whom, all got airsick at one time or another). I flew in the same Stearman for the photo shoot of that same Fokker.

More good stuff coming. I will be shooting the fight for China Commemoration next weekend (P-40 and A6M) and the Collings Foundation (B-17, B-24, B-25) as well. Both things are on the same day at Camarillo! Now, if I can get some air-to-air shooting in with either of those....


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## lesofprimus (Apr 29, 2007)

Hell yea, air to air... Hope u get that lucky Eric...


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 29, 2007)

Very cool Eric!!!!!


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## evangilder (Apr 29, 2007)

Well, if I don't get any air-to-air, I should still get some great shots. I just ordered a Sigma 50-500mm lens for the Nikon. That should give me all the reach I need for the future for a while. It should arrive by friday. 8)


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 29, 2007)

Dude - that looks like it should be on the nose of a B-25!


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## lesofprimus (Apr 29, 2007)

No sh!t.... Amazing lens...


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## evangilder (Apr 29, 2007)

There is a reason for it, besides having the further reach. I am a little ahead of schedule on profits this year for the photo biz. The only way to keep from paying hefty business taxes (You know how it is Dan), is to re-invest in the business. So it's a real shame.  I was looking originally at the Nikkor 80-400mm, but after reading the specs and reviews on the Sigma, I knew I had the lens I was looking for. The real fun part about this one is if I put a 2x multiplier on it, I could take a picture of you flying in Colorado, Joe! 

Edit: The huge benefit of the lens is the weight. Even though it's 50-500, it's only about 4.5 pounds. If you look at the beast in my hands in my sig, that one tips the scales at 7.5 pounds. While that doesn't sound like much, try holding it in front of you while twisting a zoom ring all day long.


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## timshatz (Apr 30, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Actually that was how the first air to air kills were recorded in WW1. The first aircraft were not fighters but rather Recon aircraft and they carried pistols obviously encase they crashed. When they saw another aircraft they would sometimes engage it with there pistol.



Point well made. The original guys did bang away at each other with everything from Shotguns to pistols. Some crazy russian even had a grappling hook and line of rope hanging from his aircraft trying to grab the other aircraft. I think he ended up ramming them with his undercarriage while trying to get the hook to work. Lanoe Hawker (Von Richtoffen's 10th kill?) got his first kills by rigging a carbine at 45 degrees from his line of flight (to avoid the prop) and shooting a couple of aircraft down that way (using a Bristol Scout). So there was a historical presedence for the act. 

But the scene in the movie was rough to watch. German on our hero's tail, our hero loops and shoots the German through the head with his trusty service revolver. All this requires the German to go from being ace of the skies to idiot of the world in less time than it takes our hero to do his loop (seeing as he was sitting there fat, dumb and happy when our hero shoots), some incredible accuracy for our hero to fire across the space between the two airplanes (both moving at odd speeds over rough air) and hit the German with one shot (very economical on ammunition). 

Dear Hollywood, I understand the "willing suspention of disbelief" is a requirment in a movie. But I'd have to be a moron to believe some of the stuff (not all but some) in that movie was accurate. In short, you're killing me!


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## amrit (Apr 30, 2007)

Does anybody have any information about Lt Harlou P Neibling who received a DSC? I know he shot down a plane with .45 pistol, but can't find any specifics. I believe he was in a balloon which was attacked.

EDIT - found his citation, but no mention of the Fokker being shot-down:

NEIBLING, HARLOU P.
First Lieutenant (Air Service), U.S. Army
Observer, 2d Balloon Squadron (Attached), A, Air Service, A.E.F.
Date of Action: September 2, 1918
Citation:
The Distinguished Service Cross is presented to Harlou P. Neibling, First Lieutenant (Air Service), U.S. Army, for repeated acts of extraordinary heroism in action at Brouville, France, September 2, 1918, and near Fort Du Marre, France, September 26, 1918. While Lieutenant Neibling was making an aerial reconnaissance from a balloon, he was repeatedly attacked by enemy planes, two of which dived at the balloon and opened fire with incendiary bullets. With great coolness he fired at one of them with his pistol and took a picture of the plane with his camera. When the balloon took fire he was forced to jump, but he took two more pictures on the way down in spite of being fired upon. He re-ascended as soon as a new balloon could be inflated. On September 26 this officer was again attacked while conducting a reglage, but hanging from the basket with one arm he fired his pistol at one of the enemy planes and jumped only when his balloon burst into flames. He immediately continued his mission in another balloon.
General Orders No. 46, W.D., 1919
Birth: Huron, SD
Home Town: Minneapolis, MN


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 30, 2007)

timshatz said:


> But the scene in the movie was rough to watch. German on our hero's tail, our hero loops and shoots the German through the head with his trusty service revolver. All this requires the German to go from being ace of the skies to idiot of the world in less time than it takes our hero to do his loop (seeing as he was sitting there fat, dumb and happy when our hero shoots), some incredible accuracy for our hero to fire across the space between the two airplanes (both moving at odd speeds over rough air) and hit the German with one shot (very economical on ammunition).
> 
> Dear Hollywood, I understand the "willing suspention of disbelief" is a requirment in a movie. But I'd have to be a moron to believe some of the stuff (not all but some) in that movie was accurate. In short, you're killing me!



Yes you are correct there...


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## Negative Creep (May 1, 2007)

I tihnk the best way to treat the film is as a Boy's Own adventure. Forget notions of realistic situations or physics, don't worry about the talky bits, enjoy the flying scenes.

Now, if only someone would do a WW2 version. And not involve anyone who was in any way connected with Pearl Harbour


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## mkloby (May 1, 2007)

Negative Creep said:


> I tihnk the best way to treat the film is as a Boy's Own adventure. Forget notions of realistic situations or physics, don't worry about the talky bits, enjoy the flying scenes.
> 
> Now, if only someone would do a WW2 version. And not involve anyone who was in any way connected with Pearl Harbour



Can we still have a scene with a dramatic main landing gear attack???


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## evangilder (May 1, 2007)

You seem to really like that scene, Matt. Don't you go trying that with any of those taxpayer paid for machines you have been parking your butt in, Marine.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (May 1, 2007)

LOL.


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## mkloby (May 1, 2007)

evangilder said:


> You seem to really like that scene, Matt. Don't you go trying that with any of those taxpayer paid for machines you have been parking your butt in, Marine.



Why not? You'll just pay for another one, won't you???


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## evangilder (May 2, 2007)




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## Gnomey (May 2, 2007)

mkloby said:


> Can we still have a scene with a dramatic main landing gear attack???



Also got to have the flying straight through the Zeppelin scene as well...


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## evangilder (May 2, 2007)

Lets modify one scene...
The pilots pull up side by side, both out of missiles. Our hero slides open his canopy to draw his service revolver. As soon as he lifts it, the slipstream grabs it, flings it out of his hand and into the waiting jet intake. He FODs himself out as the other pilot laughs at his stupidity.


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## renrich (May 2, 2007)

Just got back from fishing out of Port Mansfield and am behind but saw "Flyboys" and enjoyed it, mainly the flying scenes. No more unrealistic than "Wings" I thought. Gave me acrophobia when the German was running across the top of the zeppelin in flight. Also the German adding oil to an engine of a bomber while standing on a wing in flight was clever.


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## renrich (May 2, 2007)

Maybe the landing gear business seems farfetched but an F4U intercepted a Japanese recon plane over Okinawa at 38000 ft and when he found his guns were frozen chewed the recon planes vert stab of with his prop. Must have been a Marine!


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## tpikdave (May 12, 2007)

We just watched it tonight. Got it through Netfliks. What a hoot, best comedy I ever saw. Wow, Newport 17s with radial engines. Whoops, rotary engines would be correct. The movie was shot using about 90% CGI for all the flight scenes. The plot sucked and the movie claimed to be based on a true story. Yup, there was a Lafayette Escadrille..true. Yup, there was a WWI also true. Thats about it for true story. God I hate crap like this. I saw The Blue Max in the 60s and it was more realistic. Pearl Harbor was worse though, but not by much. Peeeyooo stinko.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (May 12, 2007)

> What a hoot, best comedy I ever saw.






> Peeeyooo stinko.


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## gary tarrant (May 28, 2007)

.....flyboys WAS good, but THE BEST was h. hughes HELLS ANGELS.....that long distant air shot of those planes coming in at each other with those clouds were just about the most poetic scene of any air movie........oh yes, in flyboys, they could have made {digitally speaking} more individually painted dr1s instead of each one the same red!......and oh that rubber tail wheel!.......nice to see a gotha {with lozenges}.......i think there was about a year time difference between some of those airplanes {i think}..........its really to bad that they couldnt find a warehouse full of brand new roteries {le rhones, clerget, obers, etc.}......then, throw in smellovision!......castor oil special effects!........a new old member


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## gary tarrant (May 28, 2007)

......flyboys was good, aside from the fact that every fokker triplane WAS red! and oboy, those rubber tail{skids?}.......very good gotha with lozenges......still cant beat the poetry of that long arial shot of all those {mostly surplus}airplanes coming together in h. hughes HELLS ANGELS........wouldnt it be neat to have a ww1 movie with 'smellovision'......and find a warehouse full of new rotaries?......oh, the sound, with castor oil!!


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## gary tarrant (May 28, 2007)

....ps, has anyone ever heard of a ww1 monstosity british triplane 6 engined berlin buster bomber called the TARRANT 'TABOR' ?......quite a story indeed.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 29, 2007)

And it took three posts to tell something about this very unrealistic movie.


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