# Bomber command Memorial needs help



## Oggie2620 (Aug 14, 2010)

From my Dutch friend Charles who is doing sterling work over there to raise money. Can you help too?
RAF Bomber Command lost 55,573 lives in WWII average age 22, And till this day have No Memorial in the UK but that will change.
RAF BOMBER COMMAND IN WW2
Robin Gibb of the Bee Gees and Jim Dooley of the 70/80 pop group the Dooley's are great supporters to get one made in Green park London planning permission has been approved and the design, now its the Cost and that ware you can help. They need to be remembered and not forgotten.
Bomber Command Donations
It will be opened by HM The Queen in NOV 2011 before the Olympics in 2012.
In April/May 2010 some of the last Surviving Veterans was in Holland to get support for it and celebrate 65 years end of WWII.
I was with them and made some photo's and will be placing them on her.
This one was made 01 May 2010 at a crash museum in Aalsmeer.
L - R 
Sqn Ldr Tony Iveson DFC ex Sgt BoB 617 Sqn, John Pledenderleith, Maurice Snowball,Jack Cook, David Fellows, Bernnie Harris ex Air Gunners, WO John Banfield MBE secretary RAF ex POW , Air Cdr C Clarke OBE President RAF ex POW ex Stalag Luft III, WO Stan Bradford DFM ex Air Gunner.
Googel any of the names to find out more about the person and what they did to save Britain during our Darkest years of WWII and help free Europe from tyranny.
Jim Dooley has made some photos and they are being sold to raise money for the Memorial.
This is the website, look under Jim Dooley collection.
Welcome to Artique Gallery Publishing Ltd
Shortly I will also be selling things for the memorial and will be placing it on her when I have the last details sorted out.
I will be adding some more photos to her because with out these brave men the RAF would not be the best in the World and ware it is today.
This is the facebook page for Support the Bomber Command Memorial.
Support the Bomber Command Memorial! | Facebook


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 14, 2010)

Wow! Thanks for posting, I'm shocked they don't already have one.


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## BombTaxi (Aug 14, 2010)

It's running into all kinds of trouble. Some people don't want it built for political/ethical reasons, and allegedly there is difficulty over planning permission in Hyde Park, as well as controversy over the actual design. _Private Eye_ had a short (and very serious) piece about it a while ago, I'll see if I still have the issue and post the substance of the article.


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## Airframes (Aug 15, 2010)

No doubt the tree-hugging, carrot eating, 2CV driving fraternity, who are alive and free today due to the sacrifice of others, are up in arms over such a monument. Well, b*ll*cks to them ! Build the thing, and have it spotlit at night too!
I can't help financially, but I'll support in any other way I can.


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## RabidAlien (Aug 16, 2010)

Agree, AF...how can someone have "ethical" reasons to not build a monument to the brave men and women who fought to end a globe-spanning war and stop the persecution and ritual slaughter of an entire religion? It would have been unethical to NOT do so!


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## BombTaxi (Aug 16, 2010)

There has been a division of opinions over Bomber Command's role in the war ever since it ended. Supporters point to the massive impact the campaign allegedly had on the German war effort, and the unquestionably massive sacrifice BC aircrews made, while detractors claim that the effect was not so great as is often stated, and decry the quite deliberate slaughter of German civilians that resulted. The Dresden raid is really the nexus of the debate, with detractors claiming that the target was of minimal military value and that the massive civilian casualties were almost entirely needless.

So, those who support BC's role believe a memorial is necessary, while detractors are uncomfortable with memorialising such incredible slaughter of civilians - far in excess of the casualties the LW inflicted on British civilians earlier in the war. I'm not on either side of the debate - to be honest, I think a memorial should be built, but I do question Harris' motives, while at the same time understanding that operational reality meant that there was quite probably no other way of achieving the result. It's always been a divisive subject, and the imminent building of the memorial has raised it's profile recently.


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## RabidAlien (Aug 16, 2010)

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. The fact is, though, that most of those arguing against might very well not be here if a father/grandfather had died when the campaign had dragged on another month or six. That, and the fact that if those men had not stood up and defended their country and freedom, period, those who are arguing against the memorial most likely would not have the rights or ability to argue without a very strong possibility of suddenly disappearing into the night.


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## Airframes (Aug 16, 2010)

Very true RA. The point that these people are missing though, is very basic - it's not the motives, the actions or morals which will be honoured by such a memorial, it's the_ men who were lost_ implementing those motives, actions and morals, which they did whether they agreed or not, as their duty.
The sooner protesters, and particularly the lazy -ar*ed, up-jumped do-gooders who allow more rights to terrorists than to veterans, realize this, the sooner we might get back at least a little sanity in this World.
It's alright to build a place which will be used to foster hate and terrorist action in a country providing home and shelter to other nationals, but not a memorial to our own? B*ll*cks to them !


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## Frantish (Aug 17, 2010)

We need MORE memorials while we still can!

Contributing!


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## Njaco (Aug 17, 2010)

> ....while detractors claim that the effect was not so great as is often stated, and decry the quite deliberate slaughter of German civilians that resulted.



The ONLY reason they can make such a claim is because of the efforts of Bomber Command. Otherwise the Gestapo would keep them quiet.

morons


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## stona (Aug 18, 2010)

Airframes said:


> Very true RA. The point that these people are missing though, is very basic - it's not the motives, the actions or morals which will be honoured by such a memorial, it's the_ men who were lost_ implementing those motives, actions and morals, which they did whether they agreed or not, as their duty.



Exactly. That's why it should have been built years ago.
Steve


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## BombTaxi (Aug 18, 2010)

Njaco said:


> The ONLY reason they can make such a claim is because of the efforts of Bomber Command. Otherwise the Gestapo would keep them quiet.
> 
> morons



It's the nature of the beast, unfortunately. Our soldiers fight so that those back home have the right to criticise them. I remember seeing an interview with an Iraq veteran who's unit was picketed by anti-war protesters during it's homecoming parade. Asked for his response, he said that the protests were proof that he had done his job and defended the rights of those protestors


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## Njaco (Aug 18, 2010)

Thats a great response.


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## Erich (Aug 18, 2010)

sadly once your WW 2 vets are gone as well as here in the states there will be no more need for memorials, in fact I would not be surprised there will be aid organizations coming on with ideas of removal as the presence would remind one of war(s). sure it sounds insane but look who are those that are after the limelight to get their foolish points across

I'm for the memorial for those that have served bled and those that remain to this day


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## BombTaxi (Aug 19, 2010)

I don't think WWI and WWII memorials will be demolished - they remain two of the most significant man-made events in history. I do think that memorialising the current crop of wars in the Middle East will be much harder, owing to the general public disapproval of the wars, and the fact that the memorials themselves will become targets for terrorism.


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## Erich (Aug 19, 2010)

wait and see BT


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## BombTaxi (Aug 19, 2010)

Erich said:


> wait and see BT



Perhaps in the US. But here, no-one really wants to remember at the moment. Blair's recent donation to a charity that supports veterans has widely been proclaimed as a sign of a guilty conscience, and public support for the war is at rock bottom, even among the right-wing press who were it's greatest cheerleaders. There is a vast amount of public sympathy for, and charity towards, the soldiers themselves, but nothing but  and cynicism regarding the war itself. No-one thinks it has made us safer, because it has not, and no-one really thinks we can impose democracy on Afghanistan. The public just want the troops home ASAP. Army re-enlistment rates are also falling, as is recruitment, and I think the Army only keeps quiet out of tradition, all though it is becoming more vocal in it's criticism of the govt. I don't think it is the kind of situation anyone wants to build a memorial to just yet...


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## Oggie2620 (Aug 27, 2010)

I have to agree with you all gentleman.  It is not glorifying war its commemorating those who had their lives taken. However the update:

So, as part of our campaign to raise money for the memorial to honour the 55,573 men of Bomber Command who gave their lives in WWII, members of the public from around the world are being invited to donate £20 or more to have their personal messages and photographs placed in a time capsule. It will be buried within the foundations of the memorial, which is to be unveiled in late 2011, and will stand for 1000’s of years.

The time capsule will also include the name, rank and serial number of all the members of RAF Bomber Command, as well as personal messages from key political figures and Commonwealth heads of state. 

During the construction of the memorial in London’s Green Park, a protective pipe will secure a tunnel within the foundations, allowing the time capsule to be placed there just before the final unveiling of the memorial. All those who have already donated to the memorial, and whose contact details are available to the Bomber Command Association (the organisation behind the memorial), will also be able to place messages within the time capsule.

Donations can be made, and pictures and messages uploaded via The Bomber Command Time Capsule - remembering forever those who gave everything.. 

I hope you all agree that this is a great way to not only raise money, but allow all the people who do to become part of the memorial for ever.


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## 50sqnwop/ag (Sep 7, 2010)

It appears chaps that our Germanic chums don't want us to remmember our RAF sacrifices in giving them (in the words of basil fawlty) a damn good thrashing..... 

see todays edition of the Daily mail Dresden mayor to ask Boris Johnson: 'Don't build Bomber Command crews memorial' | Mail Online

Hows that for dullusional, we win n they still think they can tell us what to do.....!


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## tail end charlie (Sep 7, 2010)

50sqnwop/ag said:


> It appears chaps that our Germanic chums don't want us to remmember our RAF sacrifices in giving them (in the words of basil fawlty) a damn good thrashing.....
> 
> see todays edition of the Daily mail Dresden mayor to ask Boris Johnson: 'Don't build Bomber Command crews memorial' | Mail Online
> 
> Hows that for dullusional, we win n they still think they can tell us what to do.....!



I dont know if the design is final yet but a memorial is to remember the men who made the sacrifice not to glorify what they did. Whatever anyone says about the bombings they were doing what the whole nation wanted them to at the time, and I think they suffered the highest losses of any military service.


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## 50sqnwop/ag (Sep 7, 2010)

I thought the design was already chosen? 7 aircrew standing around wasnt it? also I've made the same point about the memorial being to remember the 55000 or so aircrew that died and not any particular operation ordered by the WC (see what I did there  ) On the British side yes ,twas the highest percentage loss of fighting personnel , just under 50% of the total wartime aircrew strength were lost from BC from the top of me bonce. Only the uboat crews lost a higher percentage of their overall total fighting force 75% or so??? 

Good old antagonistic press eh....


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## RabidAlien (Sep 7, 2010)

50sqnwop/ag said:


> It appears chaps that our Germanic chums don't want us to remmember our RAF sacrifices in giving them (in the words of basil fawlty) a damn good thrashing.....
> 
> see todays edition of the Daily mail Dresden mayor to ask Boris Johnson: 'Don't build Bomber Command crews memorial' | Mail Online
> 
> Hows that for dullusional, we win n they still think they can tell us what to do.....!



Kinda like the Japanese wanting the US to apologize for dropping the bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. I guess we should feel guilty for winning, maybe (by today's PC standards) we hurt their feelings by making them lose? Did we damage their self-esteem?  Sorry....it ticks me off when people do crap like that.


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## Oggie2620 (Oct 5, 2010)

I am going to be really cryptic because I want you all to go look at this link:

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2lNZ0p0YVk_
I think these will sell like hotcakes and I hope to get some when I got to Holland in November...
Chaz has worked really hard on getting these authorised.
Dee


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