# WWII and school



## marconi (Jul 29, 2005)

OK, I tried not ask this question, but cannot stop my curiosity.There was a TV-program about the USA.In it journalist was asking people at the street in the the USA,who was fighting in WWII against whom, and who won.Some of the answers were rather strange: USA and UK (sometimes France) vs. Germany/Japan without mentioning USSR (that really pissed Russians off, all in all they've lost lots of people and captured Berlin), and even USA and UK vs. USSR.
As I've said this poll pissed Russians off and they often mention this poll as a proof that all Americans are stupid: "They're stupid because they don't even know who has won WWII".I'm tired to argue with such people so I'd like to hear your comments on this.And one more question. How much attention is devoted to studying of WWII in schools in the USA, UK (and any other country )?

P.S. I'd also like to hear what kind of stereotypes are there in USA, UK etc. about Russians, Ukrainians and other nations from former USSR.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 29, 2005)

We actually learn very little about WW2 in school. We learnt a bit about some of the major battles last year, but mainly we were taught about why it happened, not what happened, which annoys me.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 29, 2005)

Well I'm neither American nor British, but the general sense one gets in most of Canada is one of near ignorance when it comes to the eastern front of WWII. It's not very surprising though, considering that Canadian troops fought almost entirely in western Europe and Italy, and to a very small extent in the Far East. Our main concern lay with the western Allies and the battles we fought.

The Soviet Union was an uneasy ally of the British Empire and the United States during the war. It was an alliance based upon the principle that "The enemy of mine enemy is my friend". Stalin had signed a pact of nonaggression with Germany, and lay claim to the eastern half of Poland when the Germans invaded in September 1939. It wasn't until that pact came to an abrupt end in June of 1941 that the Soviets found themselves fighting the very same Germany that Britain was.

Any buff of WWII history knows of the Russian involvement and the terrible battles that were fought throughout the western part of Mother Russia. It was the pressure of the Russian counter attacks coupled with the "invasion" from the west by the Allies of the US/British Empire that brought about Germany's final defeat, and the post-war map of Europe was testament to the Soviet presence.

Americans are not stupid. Nor are Brits, Canadians, French, Norwegians, Australians, or anyone else. It's a matter of individual priority.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

There is a great portion of the US population who are ignorant about WW2, especially people born after 1970 and especially women. I pick that year because many of their parents weren't young enough to fight in WW2. Russia's (or in my day the Soviet Union) effort in WW2 is recognized by those Americans who have studied world events and WW2. Its a matter of who were polled and where the polling took place.

As far as studying WW2 in schools - in my day it seems it was avoided. I attended schools in NY and in California. Many of the teachers were real liberal and avoided discussions about WW2 or any war for that matter. When I was in middle school I had one teacher who seemed to defy the establishment and did a course on WW2 history. Viet Nam was still fresh in everyone's mind and talk about military history, WW2 or anything associated with the military was very unpopular.


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## toffigd (Jul 29, 2005)

Stereotype of American people in Poland - they are stupid.

Stereotype of Russians in Poland - vodka drinkers (that's why Russians are very close to many people here).

Stereotype of Ukrainians in Poland - poor nation.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

When I was in middle school I was forced to take a ceramics class. the teacher knew i was really into history and aircraft and I was told I could not make anything that had to do with aviation or history, so I made a ceramic skull and crossbones just to piss her off. She liked it so much she entered it in a contest and I got an "A" in the class!  

I think the sterotype of Americans being stupid lies with who is being interviewed and where. In addition I think there is so much political diversion here in the US because those who don't understand world events or history relies on the media, mainly poorly made movies and TV shows to provide them with history and political education.


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## lesofprimus (Jul 29, 2005)

Ive been all over the globe, from Lisbon to Haifa, from Trieste to Amsterdam...

There are stupid people everywhere... I know some really dumb idiots here in the States, but I know a bunch of morons in Italy too....

Im smart and intelligent and have a great sense of responsibility... "Stupid" people dont become part of the most elite special warfare individuals in the world..

Ive met Urkranians and Russians before, and I found them usually to be alittle slower and easier going than normal everyday Americans... Less to worry about... Small thinkers... Never really concerned about world affairs...

Sterotype of Polish people in America - they are a bunch of inbreeders and pedophiles.......


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 29, 2005)

The typical stereotype of Russians/Ukrainians here is that they're generally dishonest. A lot of people see them as liars and cheats. I've only ever met a few, and I found them to be decent enough people.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

I know in New York many are leery of Russians because of their influx into NY and the Russian Mafia.


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## Medvedya (Jul 29, 2005)

In Britain, there are many Polish, Czech, Hungarian, and Slovak people who are now coming to work here - I myself work with a Polish girl in my Saturday job.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 29, 2005)

A good friend of mine while I was growing up was Polish. Great guy.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

I've worked with many Czechs over the years. They all hated Russians!


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## marconi (Jul 29, 2005)

cheddar cheese
Nonskimmer
frankly speaking, the same thing can be said about studying in our school only vice versa.I remember that I gave a lecture on Pacific Ocean campain at one of the lessons in school.ONE LESSON! That's basically all that children in former USSR can know about their allies.Maybe even lesser, because that lecture was my own initiative.
Nonskimmer, you and I and, I suppose, all those people, who visit this site know who won that war, there may be only some differences about some details.Yet I wanted to hear if it is possible that someone could tell such a funny answer, basing your opinion on fact that you know, how history is being tought in your country and how WWII is elucidated in press, whether there any memorials dedicated to WWII opened in your town, how people treat veterans of that war and so on.


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## Medvedya (Jul 29, 2005)

Well, I was shocked when I read about what happened at the Brest-Litovsk Fortress, and the amazing stories of heroism that occured there. 

Nobody knows about it here. At all.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

There are numerous memorials to WW2 veterans all over the US. These days WW2 veterans are being heavily honored because so many of them are dying off. Many motion pictures are being made about WW2 veterans and their sacrifices......

Since the Gulf War all veterans are being treated very respectfully. many remember how badly Viet Nam Veterans were treated when hey returned. My brother was actually spat on when he was returning home.


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## Medvedya (Jul 29, 2005)

I heard about that - Hanoi Jane style scum doing that to somebody shivering with shell-shock. 

A person's entitled to their views but that's out of order, whatever your take on Vietnam was.


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## marconi (Jul 29, 2005)

> Stereotype of Ukrainians in Poland - poor nation.


Not only in Poland.We have this stereotype too.


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## Medvedya (Jul 29, 2005)

There's also a stereotype here of Eastern European technology being very clunky and unsophisticated. 

Try this quote - it kinda sums up people's perceptions of this.

_When NASA first started sending astronauts into space they realised that the ball-point pen would not work at zero gravity. A million dollar investment and two years of tests resulted in a pen that could write in space, upside down, on almost any surface and at temperatures ranging from below freezing to over 300 degrees celcius. When confronted with the same problems the Russians used a pencil._ 

So what's the better option? - you decide!


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## marconi (Jul 29, 2005)

As for former USSR, WWII was a kind of a kult. Half of movies made in USSR were devoted to WWII.
Besides did you know that Stalin wanted that Berlin was taken on May 1, because that was one of the great holidays in USSR?How typical for bolshevics!

Medvedya, I've heard this story.


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## Medvedya (Jul 29, 2005)

He did this sort of thing for other cities as well - forcing Generals to rush their assaults and getting a lot of brave Frontoviks killed in the process.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

Medvedya said:


> I heard about that - Hanoi Jane style scum doing that to somebody shivering with shell-shock.
> 
> A person's entitled to their views but that's out of order, whatever your take on Vietnam was.



She's starting and anti-Iraq campaign right now. I hope she gets spat on again!



Medvedya said:


> There's also a stereotype here of Eastern European technology being very clunky and unsophisticated.



I find that when I talk to pilots and other mechanics about the Eastern European aircraft I've worked on here in the states (Mig-15, Mig-21, L-29 and L-39). I find some things unsophisticated but yet other things just brilliant


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## marconi (Jul 29, 2005)

Here's a stereotype about western armies.They say that electronic systems in modern weaponry is so fragile that it constantly breaks that is why Soviet weaponry is superior: it has no complex systems.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

In some cases yes, in most cases no.


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## marconi (Jul 29, 2005)

Modification: US weaponry is based on microelectronics, while most of Russian is based on electronic lamps.That is why during the nuclear strike all of American weaponry will shut down because of EM-impulse and Russian won't.Question: Does anybody know how it is supposed to fight with the influence of EM-impulce?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

marconi said:


> Modification: US weaponry is based on microelectronics, while most of Russian is based on electronic lamps.That is why during the nuclear strike all of American weaponry will shut down because of EM-impulse and Russian won't.Question: Does anybody know how it is supposed to fight with the influence of EM-impulce?



I could tell you that on aircraft "black boxes" (also known as LRUs - Line removable units) are shielded against EM.

That was an old folklore here that if the US was every attacked by the Soviet Union, all our electronics would die.


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## marconi (Jul 29, 2005)

Yes, but still the problem exists.Such a great emition of electromagnetic energy can greatly influence on semiconductors.I suppose here must be some protection against it on all types of weaponry and technics.Some kind of shielding or something like that.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

marconi said:


> Yes, but still the problem exists.Such a great emition of electromagnetic energy can greatly influence on semiconductors.I suppose here must be some protection against it on all types of weaponry and technics.Some kind of shielding or something like that.



There is - within the LRUs. The structure of the box itself is the shield


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## Medvedya (Jul 29, 2005)

I once heard that the first action the Soviets would take in a full nuclear strike would be to detonate a nuke high over the North Sea to fry all the electronic equipment before striking the bases.


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## marconi (Jul 29, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> There is - within the LRUs. The structure of the box itself is the shield



And what about other electronic components? Are they shielded as well as LRUs?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

Yes - it is a common practice to make much of the electronic equipment in combat aircraft LRUs. They could be easily removed and replaced, sometimes within minutes. I'm not an electronics guy but I seen some of the equipment and I know that they are designed to operate after nuclear, chemical or biological strikes.


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## Udet (Jul 29, 2005)

All the former soviet republics are classified as some of the most corrupt nations on the planet (especially Russia, Ukraine, all the central asian nations and the caucasian Azerbaijan).

Last time I went there with my parents to visit my ill-grandmother in Moscow, helped me understanding further those corruption perception indexes are not exagerations.

There are many cities of the former soviet union(if not the majority) where mafia men, mobsters and other organized crime comodities have openly supplante the police force in the daily task of providing citizens with "security".


Marconi:

Former-Soviet Union´s technology might have been simpler and in fact better than the USA´s in some departments, but the cold war Soviet army suffered from the same anomalies observed in the Great Patriotic War´s Red Army: low quality and poor professionalism of most of their personnel.

I met a Czec military aircraft technician here who migrated to Mexico (married a Mexican girl) who went to Afghanistan in the mid 80s, as part of Czec technical/ground support team in soviet airfields -not for combat duties-; this guy is very familiar with Mig´s and Su´s and he told me soviet regular maintenance and ground damage control was extremely poor, and that is being "generous".

The soviet air force suffered lots of accidents due to such circunstance in Afghanistan, losing many pilots killed in action or missing action.

He recalls soviet fighters and helicopters with battle damage returning to base "hardly received any repairs or overhaulings". Soviet fighter and helicopter pilots and crews were in very "shameful" conditions. There were pilots that would openly admit to the Czecs they had been wearing the same pants and personal gear for weeks and weeks and were incredibly dirty and in sometimes ill-supplied.

Even if he never ever came close to battle action in Afghanistan, he told me the images of those poor soviet air men continues to be an awful sad memory.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

Udet said:


> personnel.
> 
> I met a Czec military aircraft technician here who migrated to Mexico (married a Mexican girl) who went to Afghanistan in the mid 80s, as part of Czec technical/ground support team in soviet airfields -not for combat duties-; this guy is very familiar with Mig´s and Su´s and he told me soviet regular maintenance and ground damage control was extremely poor, and that is being "generous".



The people I worked with who imported Eastern European surplus military aircraft avoided purchases from Russia. Most of our stuff came from Czech Republic, Poland, or Romania.


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## marconi (Jul 29, 2005)

> Former-Soviet Union´s technology might have been simpler and in fact better than the USA´s in some departments, but the cold war Soviet army suffered from the same anomalies observed in the Great Patriotic War´s Red Army: low quality and poor professionalism of most of their personnel.



This is right not only for Red Army but also for army of Russian Empire.It's some kind of Asian mentality - to fight not by quality but by quantity.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

marconi said:


> > Former-Soviet Union´s technology might have been simpler and in fact better than the USA´s in some departments, but the cold war Soviet army suffered from the same anomalies observed in the Great Patriotic War´s Red Army: low quality and poor professionalism of most of their personnel.
> 
> 
> 
> This is right not only for Red Army but also for army of Russian Empire.It's some kind of Asian mentality - to fight not by quality but by quantity.



If you talk to members of the US military (especially those who served in the 1980s) we were always told to be prepared to fight aganist superior numbers......


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 29, 2005)

Just look at China.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

Yep!


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## Medvedya (Jul 29, 2005)

The real danger of course was that if in the event of a conventional attack by the Warsaw Pact they managed to make initial progess against NATO (as predicted by General Sir John Hackett in 'The Third World War') then the President would be faced with a 'Use 'em or lose 'em situation regarding the battlefield nuclear weapons available in Germany. 

Well, I'm sure you can guess the rest..........


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 29, 2005)

Medvedya said:


> The real danger of course was that if in the event of a conventional attack by the Warsaw Pact they managed to make initial sucesses against NATO (as predicted by General Sir John Hackett in 'The Third World War') then the President would be faced with a 'Use 'em or lose 'em situation regarding the battlefield nuclear weapons available in Germany.
> 
> Well, I'm sure you can guess the rest..........



Yep - and back then ole Ronny had an itchy finger......


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## Medvedya (Jul 29, 2005)

Well, in this book it suggested that the WP attack began to grind to a halt through their inflexibility when it came to keeping the supplies, and thus the initiative going in the face of the increasing American power that would arrive in Europe.

Depends - if the brass could persuade Regan to hold his wad and prove that NATO was capable of 'holding the line' until the fresh reenforcements could really start begining to bite.

The crux, as always, would be to get the upper hand in the Atlantic to get the supplies, equipment and troops over to make this happen.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 29, 2005)

And there's me, in my second-hand British submarine, guarding the supply routes from Halifax.


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## Medvedya (Jul 29, 2005)

HMCS Skim: Breakfast menu.

Scrambled Akula on muffins followed by fresh Typhoon. 

Hmmm, would it be that it was so easy! The word 'lethal' and those two names tend to go hand in hand. Having said that, you and your pals _did_ take out a Los Angeles.....

....who knows? Good thing nobody ever got to find out.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 29, 2005)

Those were games. We can only hope that the real deal would go as well in our favour. [-o<

(Against enemies, not allies of course.  )


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## lesofprimus (Jul 29, 2005)

One of the hardest things for a junior sonarman onboard a Los Angeles Class Sub to do is isolate a Diesel Sub on batteries running at 1.5 knots.... Damn near invisible, or silent in this instance...

Still impressive, and Im not often impressed...

NS, u guys got that rubber coating on ur hull??


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 29, 2005)

Yep. It's a pretty standard thing on modern submarines. Despite what the Canadian press has made out, these subs aren't really that old. The initial problems stemmed from the fact that they sat unmaintained for about five years before we came along and bought 'em. Try that with a car and see what happens. Of course it won't run.

It took a bit to get them operating again, but they're alright. We've modified them slightly too. They're not bad boats really.

Seeing as how we couldn't have new ones and all.


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## lesofprimus (Jul 29, 2005)

A mute whale makes more noise in the water than u do.....


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## plan_D (Jul 30, 2005)

All that discussion earlier about the EMP against America, it just wouldn't work as mentioned Americans shield their equipment. Also, it wouldn't work against Britain either during the Cold War because the Lightning was even more basic than Russian equipment (valves, locking wire, steam-electrics). 

Which incident were you talking about in Brest-Litovsk, Med? The German capture, the German-Soviet handshake, or the Soviet capture?


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## Medvedya (Jul 30, 2005)

The German capture in 41.


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## plan_D (Jul 30, 2005)

I thought you were stupid for a second there, then I remembered the Germans gave the fortress to the Soviet Union after they had captured it in 1939 because the river Vistula was the boundary. 

Guderian was extremely annoyed about that. It was a tough fight taking that place in 1939.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 31, 2005)

Well I can honestly say that believe it or not when I attended a US HighSchool the history books pretty much covered that WW2 was this: Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and then the US kicked Japans but. That was WW2. When I attended German Schools the History books tended to leave a lot of the Pacific out and they did not go into to much the details of what happened by why it happened and actually believe it or not quite a bit about the Holocaust but not a lot of specifics on battles or who faught who and dates.


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## Pisis (Jul 31, 2005)

One of the greataest discussions here for some time!

Everything discussed here streams from the WWII (at least for me/Czech Rep./East Block). 

Actually, the WWII started in a conflict of Hitlers Germany and Czechoslovakia - over 3 Millions of Germans lived there and Hitler claimed a huge territory, which is created by a serial of mountains all over the German borders and makes a natural defence line. It's called the Sudets or Sudetenland.
Czechoslovaks were prepared to fight. Western politics (Chamberlain, Dalladier...) had shit in trousers and in March 1938 met Hitler and Mussolini in Munich, where they signed an agreement (without a single member of the Czech government!) later called "The München Clerk". It guaranteed the Sudetenland for Germany and Czechoslovakia, by the way at that time the only democratic country in the whole area (so called "The Isle of Freedom" in the late 30's), lost it's chance to fight. 
The bigheaded Germans walked into the country without a single shot, capturing all the high-tec military equipements - Czech army was one of the most modern in that time - (also the Avia B.534 Bi-Plane fighters) and then we all know what happened on 1st Sep 1939. 

In second fact, the WWII (at least the European part) ended in the CS as well! The Berlin was liberated on 1st May 1945, Prague was on 8th May. I write this for reason, Marconi mentioned Stalin's dictator mind. The American units, lead by General Patton, stepped into Czechoslovakia beginning on May 45, on 5th of the same Month they liberated Pilsen, but then they had to sit on the so called "demarkation line" and wait until the Russians liberate the capital town - Prague. Somewhere I read that Patton didn't want to wait and was on his way to Prague but then another order came and he finally stopped. If he wouldn't do so, who knows how the world would look like now... 

So because the capital was liberated by RA, the Czechoslovakia felt into the influence of USSR.  In 1948 there was a Communist putsch, the force was taken by the Reds...
-Economy: fucked up
-Vets: almost all of them imprisoned, some executed
-Army: all had to be Russian... (BTW, there were around 20 pieces of Mosquitoes and as a "western product", they were scrapped!!!)

In 1968, when the political atmosphere was getting more and more loosen, western products were flooding the country, the life standard was better and better, the Russian came. That's the reason why we hate them. Not a man, but the nation.

So this lasted for another 20 years and affected all. Also the WWII education. When I was on the elementary, most far we get to maybe French revolution or so. On the high school, most far we went to maybe 1st Sep 1939 or so. But most of the teachers are old Commies (the funniest are those 80+ grannies who taught Russian for tens of years and now they teach English but most of the pupils have higher skills... ) and they teach following the socialist type of education - this is memorazing facts and datas. On the opposite I know that the Western type is more based on working with datas, sticking them together, discussing, etc...)

But I think everyone who is interested in WWII must be intrested in other things that happen now, or better - the WWII is a basement of todays world curcumstances. Most of the people interested in WWII (history) were clever and vice versa.

Stereotypes here:
Germans - fat, ugly, with moustaches, drink beer
Poles - very proud (almost boasty), agressive, religious
Ukrainians - vodka drinkers, fighters (since most of them work here manually)
Russians - 100% most hated nation here, vodka drinkers, idiots, communists
Yankees - fat hamburgereaters, dummy idiots, they want the oil in Iraq (the latest stereotype)
Canadiens - they play rough hockey
Britons - footbal fighters, drinkers (it's very cheap to come to drink to Prague for a weekend and thousands of guys from the UK cross the streets in night and shout and are doing troubles)

That's my 2 cents.


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 31, 2005)

Hey, yeah! We play rough hockey, but we're not fat and ugly with moustaches!  
Some of us do like a drink now and then.


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## Pisis (Jul 31, 2005)

And Czechs play the best hockey!


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 31, 2005)

They do play damn good hockey. I won't argue with that.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 31, 2005)

Pisis said:


> Yankees - fat hamburgereaters, dummy idiots, they want the oil in Iraq (the latest stereotype)



You forgot Hotdogs!



Nonskimmer said:


> They do play damn good hockey. I won't argue with that.



The Swiss and Swedes are a bunch of hacks!


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## lesofprimus (Jul 31, 2005)

Euro Hockey Sucks Ass!!!


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 31, 2005)

lesofprimus said:


> Euro Hockey Sucks Ass!!!


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 31, 2005)

Again, I won't argue with that. I was thinking of Czechs in the NHL.


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## marconi (Jul 31, 2005)

> Ukrainians - vodka drinkers, fighters (since most of them work here manually)


I don't like vodka.  
Why fighters?


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## Medvedya (Jul 31, 2005)

Pisis said:


> Britons - football fighters, drinkers (it's very cheap to come to drink to Prague for a weekend and thousands of guys from the UK cross the streets in night and shout and are doing troubles)



I wish this was just a stereotype - but I saw some of those drunk morons when I was in Prague - a bloody embarrassment.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 31, 2005)

Medvedya said:


> Pisis said:
> 
> 
> > Britons - football fighters, drinkers (it's very cheap to come to drink to Prague for a weekend and thousands of guys from the UK cross the streets in night and shout and are doing troubles)
> ...



It goes to show you each country has them.....

When I lived in Canada, we used to get kids from Buffalo cross the border into Fort Erie Ontario to drink as the legal age was 19. Most were well behaved, some were just Idiots. Some of my Canadian friends who were bouncers at a local hot spot taught some of these kids there is a time to talk and a time NOT to talk!!!!


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## Nonskimmer (Jul 31, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> When I lived in Canada, we used to get kids from Buffalo cross the border into Fort Erie Ontario to drink as the legal age was 19. Most were well behaved, some were just Idiots. Some of my Canadian friends who were bouncers at a local hot spot taught some of these kids there is a time to talk and a time NOT to talk!!!!


But then you have the kids from Ottawa crossing the provincial boundary to Gatineau, Québec (formerly Hull), where the drinking age is 18. 
And Québecers love folks from Ontario, eh Maestro? Actually, a lot of folks in eastern Ontario speak French. But then you get the odd ignorant Nova Scotian boy up there on vacation, and...well...uh...he wakes up the next afternoon and wonders how his knuckles got swollen and where the split lip came from. 

You know, stupid Maritimers.


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## plan_D (Aug 1, 2005)

I apologise on the behalf of Great Britain for not kicking the French out of Canada when we had the chance, NS. 


And that's not a stereotype, as Med said, British is really just full of morons. They're an embarassment. I'm ashamed to say I'm British when I go abroad. 


"Where are you from?" - "Uh, erm, over there..."


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 1, 2005)

Kicking the French out of Canada?! What?! No, no, no, no! It wouldn't have worked, you see...they're the _true_ canadien. Just ask them. 



(At this point, Maestro prepares for the flight to Halifax to kick NS's ass.  )


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 1, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> But then you have the kids from Ottawa crossing the provincial boundary to Gatineau, Québec (formerly Hull)



You mean Hull is now callled Gatineau?


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 1, 2005)

Yup.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 1, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Yup.



I worked with a guy named Andre Gatineau - maybe they named it after him.


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 1, 2005)

Nah, I guess they just combined a few close towns around there, of which Gatineau and Hull were two, and just kept the name Gatineau.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 1, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Nah, I guess they just combined a few close towns around there, of which Gatineau and Hull were two, and just kept the name Gatineau.



I guess Hull is too English!?


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 1, 2005)

Bingo, mon ami.


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 1, 2005)

Our Hull has a great bridge!


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 1, 2005)

In my day Hull was a great party town!


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 1, 2005)

Still is, except I'm too old (and married) to enjoy it much anymore.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 1, 2005)

Never to old - and married? Well you could look, BUT DON'T TOUCH!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 1, 2005)

ohoh, i know someone in our hull!!


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 1, 2005)

My teacher in primary school was from Hull 8)


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## Medvedya (Aug 1, 2005)

Hull is a dump - voted Britain's number one Crap Town even over horrors like Croydon and Weston.


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 1, 2005)

Even with the Humber Bridge?


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## Medvedya (Aug 1, 2005)

Even with the Humber Bridge C.C......

http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1233


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## Pisis (Aug 1, 2005)

Hey, I wrote that cause it's Czechs' own stereotype!  They're only proud of themsleves if "golden boys" win in footbal or hockey... Cz is small ans spotted by the 60 years of totality

Les, you know why Euro hockey sucks? It's not true really, if you compare the numbers, etc... but mostly it sucks because the best players go for NHL without any compensation for their original club... so it's a magical circle... and you saw (you probably didnt ) during the NHL strike... The euroleagues were fucking hot man, 10x better then the NHL!!!

Marconi: it's just a sterotype, it has no relevant reason... I know a lot of universioty educated guys from UA who are sweeping the walkpaths here... but they make more money with that here than with their original work in the motherland. And fighters because many of the "Ukroshes" (how we call them in slang) because they often drink and cause problems on the streets and often fight. Me personally was fighting an Ukrosh several times... But I have many friends among them, mostly women


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 1, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Never to old - and married? Well you could look, BUT DON'T TOUCH!


Yeah, but what's the point if you can't touch? 
Plus it takes the ol' bod an extra day to recover now. God, I wish I was 18 again! 

I mean...uh...I love my wife, I love my wife! Married life is great!


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## lesofprimus (Aug 1, 2005)

> Les, you know why Euro hockey sucks? It's not true really, if you compare the numbers, etc... ... and you saw (you probably didnt ) during the NHL strike... The euroleagues were f**k hot man, 10x better then the NHL!!!


Euro Hockey Sucks because the rink is too big, the stickwork is outta control, there are no enforcers, theres no fighting, and most of the Euro hockey players Ive met and played with were all full of themselves like their shit dont stink...

I grew up in the mid-70's when hockey was REAL hockey.... Old Time Hockey.... Where guys scored 25 goals and beat the hell outta people... I was a stickboy for the Islanders in 1979 and Bobby Nystrom was, and is, my Hero... 

I despise the Instigator Rule and Gary Bettman, the cocksucker...... Both ruined hockey for me......


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 1, 2005)

Ah, the '70's! The heyday of hockey!


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 1, 2005)

lesofprimus said:


> > Les, you know why Euro hockey sucks? It's not true really, if you compare the numbers, etc... ... and you saw (you probably didnt ) during the NHL strike... The euroleagues were f**k hot man, 10x better then the NHL!!!
> 
> 
> Euro Hockey Sucks because the rink is too big, the stickwork is outta control, there are no enforcers, theres no fighting, and most of the Euro hockey players Ive met and played with were all full of themselves like their s**t dont stink...
> ...



Clarke Gilles, Nick Fortiu, Bob Gasoff (RIP) Glen Sather, the Plager Brothers - man those were the days!


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## lesofprimus (Aug 1, 2005)

I have over 60 VHS tapes of nothing but hockey fights..... 2 hour tapes of Behn Wilson and Stan Jonathan and Fotiu and Gillies ect ect..... Those were the days......


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## evangilder (Aug 1, 2005)

Oh MAN! That is quite a collection!


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## trackend (Aug 2, 2005)

It appears you're just a little bit keen on ice hockey Les.
I dont know shit about it but when I went to Vancouver a couple of years ago the locals where really pissed off and complaining that all their best players where going to the US.


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 2, 2005)

Professional hockey in Canada is in danger of going by the wayside. Poor management of the teams by owners, rediculous stadium fees (for the teams to use the facilities, thereby driving ticket costs _way_ up! )...basically outdated business practices. Teams are either folding because of it or moving to the US. Professional teams there have been popping up like daisies. They're virtually everywhere.

Over 60 tapes of fights?! Holy crap!


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## plan_D (Aug 2, 2005)

I was into hockey through the 90s, I never played it but I loved staying up 'til 2-3am so I could watch NHL. Sergei Federov was my favourite player because he was so god damn good! And the Dallas Stars goalie, I can't remember his name now (damn it) was a bloody nutcase and he was almost always fighting, so naturally I'd like him too.


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## lesofprimus (Aug 2, 2005)

Hockey Fighting Vid Clip.. This is when Hockey was REAL hockey...


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## Pisis (Aug 2, 2005)

Ed Belfour?

Yeah, times change, in the 70's soccer was also something different then today... I like more technical hockey then bumper. And yeah, you're right I know personally guys like Jiří Dopita, Roman Čechmánek, Jiří Hudler, etc... and they are cretens. But still love to play, and if there's the ICS, I love to watch. Now the Czech NHL would be a shit again, since all the good players go either to NHL or Russia without a single nickel for the league itself... Don't wonder that it's shit, but on the other hand wonder how Czechs couzld be so successful.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 2, 2005)

lesofprimus said:


> Hockey Fighting Vid Clip.. This is when Hockey was REAL hockey...



That looked like Dave Schultz?!?


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## plan_D (Aug 2, 2005)

Belfour was Chicago Blackhawks.


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## Pisis (Aug 2, 2005)

plan_D said:


> Belfour was Chicago Blackhawks.



sure he was but he played for Dallas Stars then. So Matt DelGuidice? Mike Fountain? Felix Potvin?






_Alltime Best Goalie... no.39_


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## plan_D (Aug 2, 2005)

No, my brother will know and I'm goin' to get drunk with him later. I'll ask him then.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 2, 2005)

plan_D said:


> No, my brother will know and I'm goin' to get drunk with him later. I'll ask him then.



Can I come?


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## Pisis (Aug 2, 2005)

I¨ll come with my Frencg buddies who came today... I'll show 'em the "jewles" of Prague...


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## lesofprimus (Aug 2, 2005)

Belfour played for the Hawks, Sharks, Stars, and Leafs...


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## plan_D (Aug 3, 2005)

I did get drunk, very-very drunk. And I did ask him but I was drunk, I can't remember what he said.


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## lesofprimus (Aug 3, 2005)

If he said the above, he was correct... If he said anything different, he was wrong...


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## plan_D (Aug 3, 2005)

I asked him who was the goalie for the Dallas Stars around '95...you know, that nutcase who was almost always fighting?


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## lesofprimus (Aug 3, 2005)

1995 hmmmm........ 

CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS 1988-1989 
23 GAMES PLAYED..WON 4/LOST 12/TIE 3...AVG 3.87 

CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS 1990-1991 
74 GAMES PLAYED..WON 43/LOST 19/TIE 7...AVG 2.47 

CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS 1991-1992 
52 GAMES PLAYED..WON 21/LOST 18/TIE 10...AVG 2.70 

CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS 1992-1993 
71 GAMES PLAYED..WON 41/LOST 18/TIE 11...AVG 2.59 

CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS 1993-1994 
70 GAMES PLAYED..WON 37/LOST 24/TIE 6...AVG 2.67 

CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS 1994-1995 
42 GAMES PLAYED..WON 22/LOST 15/TIE 3...AVG 2.28 

CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS 1995-1996 
50 GAMES PLAYED..WON 22/LOST 17/TIE 10...AVG 2.74 

CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS 1996-1997 
33 GAMES PLAYED..WON 11/LOST 15/TIE 6...AVG 2.69 

SAN JOSE SHARKS 1996-1997 
13 GAMES PLAYED..WON 3/LOST 9/TIE 0...AVG 3.41 

DALLAS STARS 1997-1998 
61 GAMES PLAYED..WON 37/LOST 12/TIE 10...AVG 1.88 

DALLAS STARS 1998-1999 
61 GAMES PLAYED..WON 35/LOST 15/TIE 9...AVG 1.99 

DALLAS STARS 1999-2000 
62 GAMES PLAYED..WON 32/LOST 21/TIE 7...AVG 2.10 

DALLAS STARS 2000-2001 
63 GAMES PLAYED..WON 35/LOST 20/TIE 7...AVG 2.34 

DALLAS STARS 2001-2002 
60 GAMES PLAYED..WON 21/LOST 27/TIE 11...AVG 2.66 

TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS 2002-2003
62 GAMES PLAYED..WON 37/LOST 20/TIE 5...AVG 2.26

TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS 2003-2004
59 GAMES PLAYED..WON 34/LOST 19/TIE 6...AVG 2.13


NHL TOTALS 
856 GAMES PLAYED..WON 435/LOST 281/TIE 111...AVG 2.43


Name
SEA GP MINS GA ENG SO GAA W-L-T GP MINS GA ENG SO GAA W-L 
BAUMAN, GARY 
2 27 1600 97 0 0 3.64 5-13-6 - - - - - - - 
BEAUPRE, DON 
9 316 17833 1111 17 3 3.74 126-125-45 34 1931 119 4 1 3.70 15-16 
BELFOUR, ED 
5 307 17893 653 12 27 2.19 160-95-44 73 4697 144 3 8 1.84 44-29 
BESTER, ALLAN 
1 10 601 30 3 0 3.50 1-3-0 - - - - - - - 
BRODERICK, KEN 
1 7 260 26 0 0 4.33 2-4-0 - - - - - - - 
CASEY, JON 
8 325 18089 988 23 12 3.28 128-126-42 41 2268 120 3 2 3.17 21-18 
CRAIG, JIM 
1 3 110 9 0 0 4.91 1-1-0 - - - - - - - 
EDWARDS, GARY 
2 51 2876 165 2 0 3.44 15-18-15 7 337 22 0 0 3.92 4-3 
FERNANDEZ, MANNY 
5 33 1790 74 3 1 2.48 12-11-4 2 19 1 0 0 3.16 0-0 
GILBERT, GILLES 
4 44 2529 143 0 2 3.39 16-22-5 1 60 4 0 0 4.00 0-1 
HARRISON, PAUL 
3 35 1982 138 1 1 4.18 6-22-3 - - - - - - - 
HAYWARD, BRIAN 
1 26 1473 77 4 4 3.14 6-15-3 6 171 11 1 0 3.86 0-2 
IRBE, ARTURS 
1 35 1965 88 3 3 2.69 17-12-3 1 13 0 0 0 0.00 0-0 
JANASZAK, STEVE 
1 1 60 2 0 0 2.00 0-0-1 - - - - - - - 
LEVASSEUR, LOU 
1 1 60 7 0 0 7.00 0-1-0 - - - - - - - 
LOPRESTI, PETE 
5 173 9753 660 6 5 4.06 43-101-20 2 77 6 1 0 4.68 0-2 
MANIAGO, CESARE 
9 420 24229 1283 3 26 3,17 143-192-71 34 2088 94 2 3 2.70 14-20 
MATTSON, MARKUS 
1 2 100 6 0 1 3.60 1-1-0 - - - - - - - 
MELANSON, ROLAND 
2 26 1467 102 1 0 4.17 7-11-5 - - - - - - - 
MELOCHE, GILLES 
7 328 18889 1104 14 9 3.51 141-117-52 45 2464 143 5 2 3.48 21-19 
MOOG, ANDY 
4 175 9858 451 14 8 2.74 75-64-26 16 1072 49 0 0 2.74 5-11 
MYLLYS, JARMO 
3 12 472 46 2 0 5.85 1-9-0 - - - - - - - 
RIVARD, FERN 
4 55 2865 190 1 2 3.98 9-27-10 - - - - - - - 
SANDS, MIKE 
3 6 302 26 1 0 5.17 0-5-0 - - - - - - - 
SMITH, GARY 
2 39 2270 148 3 1 3.92 10-19-9 1 43 4 0 0 5.58 0-0 
TAKKO, KARI 
6 131 6788 438 16 1 3.87 33-67-14 4 109 7 0 0 3.85 0-1 
TORCHIA, MIKE 
1 6 327 18 0 0 3.30 3-2-1 - - - - - - - 
TURCO, MARTY 
2 57 2785 93 5 5 2.00 28-12-3 - - - - - - - 
TUREK, ROMAN 
3 55 2969 106 4 2 2.14 30-14-4 - - - - - - - 
WAKALUK, DARCY 
5 153 8130 435 8 8 3.21 54-64-17 6 327 16 1 0 2.94 4-1 
WETZEL, CARL 
1 5 269 18 0 0 4.02 1-3-1 - - - - - - - 
WILLIS, JORDAN 
1 1 19 1 0 0 3.16 0-1-0 - - - - - - - 
WORSLEY, GUMP 
5 107 5970 261 0 3 2.62 39-37-24 11 614 34 0 1 3.32 6-4 


Those are all the Goalies that played for the Stars....... Belfour is the crazy one that ur thinking of...


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## plan_D (Aug 3, 2005)

Moog rings a bell for some reason. Belfour was a good goalie as well though, wasn't he? I haven't been into ice hockey for years, I've forgotten everything!


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## evangilder (Aug 3, 2005)

Anyone remember the playoffs between the Canadians and the Flyers where Ron Hextall came out of the crease at the end of the series and decked Chris Chelios? That was something else! If I remember correctly, Hextall also scored a goal into an open net in a series as well. It hit the goalpost and went in. When interviewed after the game, Hextall said "Before any of you ask anything, I was aiming for that post"


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 3, 2005)

evangilder said:


> Anyone remember the playoffs between the Canadians and the Flyers where Ron Hextall came out of the crease at the end of the series and decked Chris Chelios? That was something else! If I remember correctly, Hextall also scored a goal into an open net in a series as well. It hit the goalpost and went in. When interviewed after the game, Hextall said "Before any of you ask anything, I was aiming for that post"



Remember it well - I was a Canadiens fan since 1971 - until Montreal fans booed the US National Anthem after we invaded Iraq. Ever since they moved from the fourm the magic is gone!


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## evangilder (Aug 3, 2005)

Yep, the forum had a LOT of history.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 3, 2005)

evangilder said:


> Yep, the forum had a LOT of history.



Saw many games there when I lived in Montreal. Met Rocket Richard a few times - that was neat!


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## evangilder (Aug 3, 2005)

That would have been something!


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## Pisis (Aug 3, 2005)

I remember Hextall's scoring as well, also Martin Brodeur scored one, I think and several other goalis.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 3, 2005)

Yep - Billy Smith from the Islanders was the first (I think).


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 3, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Ever since they moved from the fourm the magic is gone!


You got that right. The Olympic Stadium is a piece of crap. It's just waiting to collapse. 

As for the booing thing, that was a load of horse sh*t, I agree. More idiots who didn't have the first friggin' clue what they were booing about. America bashing has become the rage with sh*theads the world over, and idiotic Canadians are no exception. Fools. Unfortunately, for a while there that's all you ever saw in the press. You'd get the impression that all Canadians hate Americans. That is absolutely not the case.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 3, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> FLYBOYJ said:
> 
> 
> > Ever since they moved from the fourm the magic is gone!
> ...



I understand NS........

I've never been a big Islander Fan, I always thought they were lucky and over rated (Les is going to kill me!) but the night that happened they were plaing the Islanders and the Canadiens got waxed pretty bad. One of the few times I cheered on the Islanders! After the game a few Canadian players on the Islanders even expressed their outrage......


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## evangilder (Aug 3, 2005)

There are shit-heads everywhere, NS. I know several Canadians and they are all cool and don't bash the US. Heck, there's people here that bash their own country.  

It's stuff like the pic below that pisses me off. Show some respect, dammit!


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 3, 2005)

Yep a bunch of dumbsh*ts


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 3, 2005)

Hell, we all bash our own country to some extent. Sometimes the points are entirely valid, but not bothering to get off your arse in respect for your own flag or armed forces...that's a bit much.  
I've seen plenty of it here. Believe me.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 3, 2005)

i'll always sing the national anthem when a band play it and i clap them afterwards, which, given i only clap when i have to and when i hear a good speach, is quite something...........


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## trackend (Aug 3, 2005)

I think I have said it before but on 4th July at Lake Kissimee a while back me and the missus where the only 2 who stood for the US anthem we felt really embarressed a. because we stood out like sore thumbs and b. as friggin limeys we thought we had done something wrong.
Most people in the UK dont even stop what there doing for a couple of minutes each year to remember the war dead so we have nothing to shout about either.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 3, 2005)

As you would perhaps say Track "Dopey Sods!" I've yelled at people for not standing during sporting events, I've never been challenged, but you could see they felt like the fools that they were.....


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## lesofprimus (Aug 3, 2005)

Ive had some issues before with people not standing/talking during the National Anthem...

Figures some turd from Staten Island wouldnt like the Islanders....... Youre in Rangers country anyways... Cant stand the Cnadiens either.... Met Rocket Richard before as well...

And for u to say that the Islanders were lucky and overrated is silly... They won 4 Stanley Cup Championships in a row man.... I was there for all of em, including being one of 3 stickboys for the team during their first Cup win in 1980... 

ISLANDERS RULE!!!


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## evangilder (Aug 3, 2005)

Uh oh. Hang on to those gloves, guys!


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 3, 2005)

lesofprimus said:


> And for u to say that the Islanders were lucky and overrated is silly...
> ISLANDERS RULE!!!



Oh come on Les - the first year against Philly, yea they earned that one, but against the North Stars and Vancouver?!?! Come on the Stars and Vancouver both sucked and were even lucky to make the playoffs! The Isles beat two 2dn rate teams! They beat up on Edmonton the last cup because you were looking at an inexperienced young Edmonton team - that eventually turned into a juggernaut......

I did like Tonnelli, Reisch, Trottier, Nystrom and D. Potvin - I hated Smith, I think he was a Jerk! Bossey - A class act.

As far as me in Ranger country - Hated them worse than the Islanders. I would root for Philly in the old Broad Street Bullies days just to see them beat the piss out of the Rangers.

I was a Canadiens Fan since 1971 - the last year Jean Beeliveau played, but now I could care less about them.


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## Nonskimmer (Aug 3, 2005)

Yep. The Habs never quite saw Lafleur's like again.


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## lesofprimus (Aug 3, 2005)

Think of the seasons that the Islanders had for those Cup years.... I could start throwing out all sorts of stats but Im too drunk to bother hehe.... 

The teams that they beat on the way to those finals??? 2nd rate teams???

Smith was a jerk, but theres nothing better than seeing ur goalie get 3 roughing penalties in a period LOL....

GOD HOW I HATE THE FLYERS...... Almost as much as the Rangers... (Thank GOD u arent a Rangers fan... I wouldnt be able to respect u anymore...)


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 3, 2005)

lesofprimus said:


> GOD HOW I HATE THE FLYERS...... Almost as much as the Rangers... (Thank GOD u arent a Rangers fan... I wouldnt be able to respect u anymore...)



  - The only reason why I liked the Flyers was to see Bobbiee Clarke or Hound Dog Kelly slam Brad Park and Rod Gilbert around like they were rubber dolls.....

I also remember the early NJ Devils, closer to my home town. The first game I went to, someone painted the Urinals red, white and green and added number on the inside!


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## lesofprimus (Aug 3, 2005)

I have some tapes of Dave Schultz, Mel Bridgman, Behn Wilson and Dave Brown, who were all Flyer Goons...

Man Wilson was a hardcore Badass.... Second only to Bob Probert...


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 4, 2005)

You remeber Bob Gassoff? - St. Louis Blues - I seen him take on Steve Vickers, Rick Hatfield, Ted Irvine - then he jumped into the Ranger's bench and went after Emil Francis! Crazy b*stard - killed in a motocycle accident.


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