# WWII aircraft wing I found tonight!



## Wrath1 (Nov 28, 2006)

I was walking the reef tonight and came across this wing that was exposed due to erosion! It wasn't there a few months ago!

Can anyone identify it? American, Japanese? It's located on the island of Roi-Namur, Republic of the Marshall Islands.


----------



## twoeagles (Nov 28, 2006)

That's pretty cool ! Give us an idea of the size here - rivet patterns 
remind me of Douglas designs like the Dauntless. Were you able to lift
it or turn it over?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 28, 2006)

On the opposite side was it painted green or do you see any letters or numbers? Example "24T."


----------



## Wrath1 (Nov 28, 2006)

I tried to lift it but, it wouldn't budge. Its rather large too! Much larger than me, if that means anything.

I'll try to go back and get a picture where the size can be calculated. I'll also go and look for any numbers or letters.


----------



## Gnomey (Nov 28, 2006)

Try clearing some more of the sand of the wing to give a better idea of it and any markings it might have on it.


----------



## syscom3 (Nov 28, 2006)

heres an aerial shot of Roi-Namur.


Wrath, any chance you can go to the island where the Prinz Eugen is scuttled just off the shore?


----------



## Wrath1 (Nov 28, 2006)

I work the night shift, so I've got 12 hours to "mess around"!

I've attached two other pics. The first should be a Bomb Release plate from a WWII plane I found a few months ago.

The second is a WWII M1 clip. This place is littered with all kinds of things!


----------



## Wrath1 (Nov 28, 2006)

syscom3 said:


> heres an aerial shot of Roi-Namur.
> 
> 
> Wrath, any chance you can go to the island where the Prinz Eugen is scuttled just off the shore?



I'm sure I could work something out, why?


----------



## syscom3 (Nov 28, 2006)

Think you could go out there and at low tide, take some pics of it?

There are some members here that are also enthusiests for the german warships.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 28, 2006)

I deffinatly would love to see pics of the Eugen.

What do you do on the Island Wrath?


----------



## zuluecho (Nov 28, 2006)

great find Wrath1! make sure you post when you find out what it came from!


----------



## lesofprimus (Nov 28, 2006)

Excellent stuff wrath....


----------



## R-2800 (Nov 28, 2006)

WOW! nice find wish i found stuff like that


----------



## HealzDevo (Nov 28, 2006)

I wonder, could it be a Consolidated B-24 Liberator? Would they have been based at that island I wonder... It would have to be late War perhaps, 1944 or later because the photo looks like the wing is clean aluminium...


----------



## Wildcat (Nov 29, 2006)

Hey cool! Avenger perhaps?


----------



## syscom3 (Nov 29, 2006)

I bet it was from an SBD dive bomber. I understand quite a few were dumped off the islands when the war ended.


----------



## Wrath1 (Nov 29, 2006)

syscom3 said:


> Think you could go out there and at low tide, take some pics of it?
> 
> There are some members here that are also enthusiests for the german warships.
> 
> Thanks!!!!!!!!!!



I will try to get to it but, I'm up on Roi and Kwaj is about 50 miles away. I know exactly what ship you are talking about. I've been there before a few years ago. Did you know that ship has been the sight of a few deaths out here? Some divers went inside and made a mistake This was a while ago though.


----------



## Wrath1 (Nov 29, 2006)

Ok, I went back tonight and took some more pics. I also forwarded a picture to our archeologist who is looking into what plane this is from.

*Picture 1:* I took this to give you some kind of view of how big the wing is. The only thing I could think of was the can I was drinking from. 

*Picture 2:* This is standing over the wing looking at a part that moves up and down. Thought someone may recognize this??

*Picture 3:* This is the only part I could find numbers or letters on. It says *"29w5872-7"*

*Picture 4:* This is inside the wing. The thing is full of sand making it heavy as hell. The tide was coming in so I didn't have the time to try to dig it out some to look under it. That's a project for another night.

Hope you guys like the pictures. I'll update what I know when the archeologist gets back to me.

Oh, I work for the Police Department out here. Someone asked above. If interested you can visit my *Flickr* photos from out here.


----------



## Wildcat (Nov 29, 2006)

From the photos there appears to be very little corrosion which is quite remarkable. I wonder if the rest of the plane is buried underneath or nearby?


----------



## Wrath1 (Nov 29, 2006)

I've found that things burried in sand like this tend to erode at a much slower rate than in dirt or on the bottom of the ocean. If you look at the SAT pic of Roi, the spot is about in the middle of the shore line on the west side of the island.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 29, 2006)

Very cool, I am impressed and jealous at the same time.


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 3, 2006)

Could be an SBD Dive Bomber I suppose... It is just so tough to get an idea of its size... Perhaps in daylight with a ruler or a tape-measure if measurements are taken then we might be able to match those measurements to an aircraft type... Or perhaps it is from a destroyed prototype... Who knows at the moment...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 3, 2006)

Some observations...

The part numbers are compatible to an aircraft. He's an example, but not necessary a rule of thumb...

"29W5872-7" The first part "29W" is usually related to a type aircraft, area or zone. The "5872" is the basic part number. The -7 is usually a a component making up the higher number assembly or it also indicates an update to the first part issue (-1, -2, -3 etc.) Odd numbers usually indicate the left side, even right.

On the second photo, that looks like a hinge - next to it is a small strip with some rivets in an irregular pattern. Those rivets aren't properly spaced and it looks like it was done by hand. The rest of the rivets are pretty precise indicating the component was assembled in a jig...

The rivets are definitely aircraft rivets, more than likely an "AN470AD." If you notice there is a sunk in dimple on the rivet indicating it is made from 2117-T4 aluminum. 

I'm anxious to see what it looks like when you dig it up. On the interior see if there are any numbers like 24T or 2024-T3. The 24T is an aluminum designation used on WW2 aircraft so if this is marked you'll definitely know what era its from...


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 3, 2006)

Yes, and perhaps as suggested some measurements will certainly help.


----------



## Wrath1 (Dec 5, 2006)

I'll go back tomorrow night and do some more looking and take some more photos with a measuring tape. I'll also try to gig this thing up.

Something funny; as I went back and looked at the pictures. I saw some more stamped writing on the wing. Picture 2, look to the lower right side; there is what appears to be - "29L 5300-2-54".

I don't know how I missed that being that I was right there. 

I'll update tomorrow night!

Thanks


----------



## Wrath1 (Dec 6, 2006)

Ok, I went back and took another look at the thing. The bad news is; its just too darn big for me to dig up by myself. Its way to heavy, for its filled with sand and other things like small crabs.

As I stated yesterday, I don't know how I missed the numbers I mentioned. The picture tonight is of a closeup of the lettering. There is also some kind of tradmark stamp as well as some kind of design that is half covered by a rivet.

The good news is; the motion of the tides twice a day is really starting to bring it out of the sand. I'm thinking in about a week or two, this thing will be out enough for me to try and prop it up somehow.

Does any of this help?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 6, 2006)

This does help - This is factory or depo rework - the 2 stamps shown indicate a "MRB" (Material Review Board) action - The "C" seems to be a normal inspection stamp, the other character is actually an upside down "V" which means the item is a rework part. Interlocking the inspector's stamp with a "V" usually means the rework part was inspected and cleared by the inspector. This procedure has been universal in the aircraft industry for years. The small round stamp has the letters "HT" in the center meaning that part was heat treated.

The 5 bolts are steel and are obviously corroded (dissimilar metal corrosion). 

BTW - that repair sucks, if I was an inspector I probably would of kicked the mechanic who did the repair!!! 

The link is a page that shows the different part number sequences for many of the manufacturers - the sequence matches numbers from North American, but the C stamp doesn't seem to go UNLESS the aircraft was built at a subcontractor. Here's the link...

Aviation Archaeology - Part Number Prefix By Manufacturer

Remember - this information is always subject to exceptions - sometimes special repairs were accomplished and the normal way of marking parts were changed...


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 6, 2006)

Great FBJ!! Interesting information.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 6, 2006)

Here's a link on inspection stamps, I didn't see a match...

Aviation Archaeology - Aircraft Inspection Stamps


----------



## timshatz (Dec 6, 2006)

This is pretty neat to see developing. There is little to go on with regards to what aircraft it is. However, it seems we have eliminated some of what it isn't. It isn't Japanese or German or Allied (Flyboy J figured out the details of the stamp so it must be USA). As a Depot Aircraft, my guess is it was a common aircraft and not something special. 

As more of the sand is washed away and we get more pics, we should have a better idea. The thickness and shape of the fully sand removed wing should help (keeping in mind the possible B24 mentioned earlier- laminar wing is a possibility). 

My guess is a two seat aircraft, probably a trainer. Something like an SNJ or BT13. But I hold the Dauntless/Avenger as a possibility too.


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 6, 2006)

As I said, the aircraft wing doesn't seem to have any paint on it which indicates it was pre-1941 or sometime in 1944 that it was made. It looks like bare aluminum to me. Perhaps, Dauntless/Avenger are possibilities given that we have no measurements...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 6, 2006)

HealzDevo said:


> As I said, the aircraft wing doesn't seem to have any paint on it which indicates it was pre-1941 or sometime in 1944 that it was made. It looks like bare aluminum to me. Perhaps, Dauntless/Avenger are possibilities given that we have no measurements...



Ahhh - NO...

During the war years most interior wings were primered with zinc chromate primer. Depending on the year and contract it was omitted but the interior surfaces were still alodined and the material type identified (IE 24T or 2024 T-3 or T-4)would of still been stamped on the interior. BTW Alodine comes off with a yellow tint for those of you who don't know this, look at the third photo. Pre 1941 aircraft would of had zinc chromate primer in the interior structure as this was a new technology about this time, circa 1943-44 the zinc chromate might of been omitted. Exterior paint was usually a cheap oil base and if not applied with a primer base would just flake off. There is no way to tell if that structure was aluminum to begin with or painted.

BTW - what ever it was - the photo of the round access cover shows several of the screw heads were starting to strip out which indicated that cover was removed frequently - round access covers like that are found on lower surfaces..


----------



## Wrath1 (Dec 7, 2006)

Ok, I hope this pic is viewable to all! I had a hard time getting it to show at it's regular size.

I went back and measured the wing. I made sure to dig out the sides when I did it to get as close as I could. I personaly believe the end of the wing is all there still. The side that attaches to the plane may have some large pieces missing though.

And thanks all for your advice and input in trying to get this thing solved!!!!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 7, 2006)

Got some questions....


----------



## twoeagles (Dec 7, 2006)

If this turns out to be a 1936 vintage Lockheed 10E Electra, then Wrath,
you will be able to retire early...


----------



## Wrath1 (Dec 7, 2006)

The only part that is hinged is where the blue and red meet. There is a space between the blue and yellow for movement. The red line is also hinged, meaning there is a space all along this for movement. Your black lines: they are not hinged.


----------



## timshatz (Dec 7, 2006)

twoeagles said:


> If this turns out to be a 1936 vintage Lockheed 10E Electra, then Wrath,
> you will be able to retire early...



Good one. Good chuckle.


----------



## Wrath1 (Dec 7, 2006)

twoeagles said:


> If this turns out to be a 1936 vintage Lockheed 10E Electra, then Wrath,
> you will be able to retire early...



 Only if I was able to somehow smuggle it off the island! 

Perhaps a local national friend on his boat!


----------



## Wrath1 (Dec 7, 2006)

Forgot something! The two upper white lines are separate from the two bottom ones...two pieces.


----------



## twoeagles (Dec 7, 2006)

Soooo, this is looking like part of a tail plane then. What aircraft had
metal skinned rudder/elevator? I can't see this being a wing with that
hinge where it is...Unless what I am seeing as a leading edge, isn't.


----------



## Wildcat (Dec 7, 2006)

twoeagles said:


> If this turns out to be a 1936 vintage Lockheed 10E Electra, then Wrath,
> you will be able to retire early...


----------



## Wrath1 (Dec 7, 2006)

I personally think the end with the "140" was attached to the plane as a wing and the opposite end was the tip of the wing. Wheather its upside down or rightside up, I don't have a clue.


----------



## twoeagles (Dec 7, 2006)

Did B-29's fly from Kwaj? Their tail planes were the size of small wings and could explain that hinge being over half the 'wing' chord. Many 29's went into the drink both on take-off and returning badly damaged and/or with dry
tanks. Toss'in out some ideas!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 7, 2006)

Here's a link of what flew from the island

Roi-Namur


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 10, 2006)

Could be, could be. Would be interesting to find out. I would say B-17 But I don't think any flew from there. Could be wrong...


----------



## Wrath1 (Dec 12, 2006)

sorry guys but, my camera took a dump on me and quite working  I've ordered another but, it will take more than a few weeks to get it in the mail.

In the meantime, have a merry Christmas and a happy New year!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 12, 2006)

Sorry to hear about your camera - keep us updated and happy holidays!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 12, 2006)

This is turning really interesting. You should see if some your friends might want to come down and help you dig it up. There might be some more clues underneath it.


----------



## timshatz (Dec 12, 2006)

No worries, the board is patient. Besides, we're all genuinely interested in what it turns out to be. Something of a low stress mystery for people who dig airplanes. That's got the attention of a decent number of people on this board. 

Want to toss out one more idea, it could be the horizontal stableizer (sp?) on something from a C-47 through C-54. No idea if I am on or not but after kicking it around for a while, I figure I might as well throw it out there.


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 12, 2006)

I'm not familiar with the designations C-47 through to C-54. But could be... I just observed that they didn't have paint and thought late war...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 12, 2006)

C-47 Dakota? Gooney Bird? DC-3? Are you serious? The C-54 was a DC-4.


----------



## timshatz (Dec 13, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> C-47 Dakota? Gooney Bird? DC-3? Are you serious? The C-54 was a DC-4.



Thought it might be part of the tail, not the wing. Like I said, tossing it out there.

If I was kidding I would say it was wreckage from the UFO that landed in Roswell that was hidden by the Govt. out in the Pacific because area 51 and Roswell Air Base were too hot. They tossed it in the ocean to get rid of it and Wrath 1 stumbled across it.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 13, 2006)

There is a theory.


----------



## timshatz (Dec 13, 2006)

Did I get the CIA in there? I can get the CIA in there too. What with Diana and all that, this has been a bad week for them anyway.


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2006)

NSA dammit. Get your story straight.


----------



## timshatz (Dec 14, 2006)

NSA, Right. My bad. So many of them it's sometimes like alphabet soup.


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 15, 2006)

I knew the names, just not the type numbers. Cargo planes are my weak point... Could have been an obsolete type dumped there when they were doing the Nuclear Testing in the Marshall Islands. Could also have been part of an experiment into flash paint perhaps... We notice that a lot of the post-war nuclear bombers are painted in white so obviously in one of the nuclear tests there must have been experiments to test how much nuclear radiation got through certain paint schemes... Perhaps an obsolete type that was converted to radio control for the test and then stripped of anything useful internally and dumped. Just speculation but I thought Enola Gay that dropped the first atomic bomb as well as Bockscar, the partner aircraft were both finished in bare aluminium...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 15, 2006)

HealzDevo said:


> I knew the names, just not the type numbers. Cargo planes are my weak point...


I guess so..


HealzDevo said:


> Could have been an obsolete type dumped there when they were doing the Nuclear Testing in the Marshall Islands. Could also have been part of an experiment into flash paint perhaps... We notice that a lot of the post-war nuclear bombers are painted in white so obviously in one of the nuclear tests there must have been experiments to test how much nuclear radiation got through certain paint schemes... Perhaps an obsolete type that was converted to radio control for the test and then stripped of anything useful internally and dumped. Just speculation but I thought Enola Gay that dropped the first atomic bomb as well as Bockscar, the partner aircraft were both finished in bare aluminium...


You have a wild imagination. Drones usually had orange on them and were not operated from there. Based on the website I posted earlier and based on the part numbers shown, it is likely this aircraft was built by North American. Until more of it is dug up or until we could see any material markings, it could be just about anything.


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 16, 2006)

I was just suggesting that logically they would need to test the white flash-paint before they used it, and at the time there would have still been a lot of WW2 surplus aircraft to use to conduct the testing with... It began in 1946 and goes right through until 1958, giving plenty of time for use of surplus aircraft as drones. Not really that far-fetched an idea really. You would have an aircraft without the flash paint and one with the white flash paint and then the instruments inside the two drones would take radiation readings inside the aircraft, and outside so there is a comparison for a full-sized aircraft. I think it is a fact that white flash paint happened over soon after this testing finished at Bikini Atoll...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 16, 2006)

HealzDevo said:


> I was just suggesting that logically they would need to test the white flash-paint before they used it, and at the time there would have still been a lot of WW2 surplus aircraft to use to conduct the testing with... It began in 1946 and goes right through until 1958, giving plenty of time for use of surplus aircraft as drones.


Drones were not used in that aera - PERIOD!


HealzDevo said:


> Not really that far-fetched an idea really. You would have an aircraft without the flash paint and one with the white flash paint and then the instruments inside the two drones would take radiation readings inside the aircraft, and outside so there is a comparison for a full-sized aircraft. I think it is a fact that white flash paint happened over soon after this testing finished at Bikini Atoll...


It is far fetched - again, drones were not used in that area and there only a hand full of aircraft droned in the post war years. Most of them were out of Point Mugu, China Lake, Tyndall AFB and Holloman AFB - and there were no nuke test on those Islands as well. This piece of aircraft is bare metal and until it is fully dug up there is no way to know if it was aluminum or if the paint eroded due to reaction with the currents and salt water. Again, by the data shown from the part numbers it seems its a North American aircraft product.


----------



## Glider (Dec 16, 2006)

I know I could be missing something here or being to simplistic but one of the early photos of the repair, had a number on it that started 29.
FJ explained how these numbers were used and a link was put up that showed which manufactures used which numbers, comparing the two it looks as if it could be a NA BT-9. 
Looking at photos of the BT 9 the wing looks to be about the right size and shape, being a training aircraft would normally be natural metal.

I know this isn't by any means conclusive for a number of reasons but is there any reason why this isn't possible?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 16, 2006)

Glider said:


> I know I could be missing something here or being to simplistic but one of the early photos of the repair, had a number on it that started 29.
> FJ explained how these numbers were used and a link was put up that showed which manufactures used which numbers, comparing the two it looks as if it could be a NA BT-9.
> Looking at photos of the BT 9 the wing looks to be about the right size and shape, being a training aircraft would normally be natural metal.
> 
> I know this isn't by any means conclusive for a number of reasons but is there any reason why this isn't possible?


There is a good chance that series of part numbers were used on the T-6 as well.


----------



## pbfoot (Dec 16, 2006)

there wouldn't be any paint on the wing simply because the sand moving over it would have worn it off


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 16, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> there wouldn't be any paint on the wing simply because the sand moving over it would have worn it off


No - the salt water will errode the paint as well, especially untreated enamels...


----------



## pbfoot (Dec 16, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> No - the salt water will errode the paint as well, especially untreated enamels...


wasn't aware of the salt water but the sand washing over that wing for 60years would certainly help clean it up


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 16, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> wasn't aware of the salt water but the sand washing over that wing for 60years would certainly help clean it up



agree....


----------



## syscom3 (Dec 16, 2006)

But why would a BT9 be located in the middle of the Pacific?

I suspect its another type of plane.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 16, 2006)

syscom3 said:


> But why would a BT9 be located in the middle of the Pacific?
> 
> I suspect its another type of plane.



T-6 or AT-6


----------



## Wrath1 (Dec 18, 2006)

Sorry I haven't been here in a while. Been crazy busy!...not really...just beach bum lazy 

Ok, my camera still hasn't arrived in the mail yet but, I've got a plan! I know this kid, 14 years old on island and he is always looking for work. I've offered him 20 dollars to assist me on my day off this week to go out and dig the wing up. Upon approval of his parents we are going to dig it up during low tide.

Being that my camera isn't here I'm going to use the evidence camera after an "anonymous" caller calls in some UXO that has to be documented. I'll take some pics with this camera. It's not as good as my camera but, it will have to do. I'm hoping to do this Firday.

In the meantime, enjoy the pic below. It was found tonight and I just got back from taking the pictures. I'm not sure of the size or if they are Japanese or American. I'll update.


----------



## R-2800 (Dec 18, 2006)

cool thanks for keeping us updated!


----------



## Wildcat (Dec 18, 2006)

Cool photo. I was thinking the wreakage may belong to the tail a B-25, possibly the horizontal stabilizer. Fits in with Joe's NA serial number ... any thoughts?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 18, 2006)

Wildcat said:


> Cool photo. I was thinking the wreakage may belong to the tail a B-25, possibly the horizontal stabilizer. Fits in with Joe's NA serial number ... any thoughts?



There were B-25s in the area, a possibility.


----------



## syscom3 (Dec 18, 2006)

Flyboy..... PBJ's were used by the USN and USMC.

It could very well be one of those.

Flyboy....another possibility....... were any PV1's built by NA aircraft under contract for Lockheed?


----------



## Wrath1 (Dec 18, 2006)

After viewing this pic I just can't see how this wreckage could be part of the B29. I got this pic from Google Images. The hinged parts just don't add up. But then again we haven't seen the other side.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 18, 2006)

syscom3 said:


> Flyboy..... PBJ's were used by the USN and USMC.
> 
> It could very well be one of those.


Agree



syscom3 said:


> Flyboy....another possibility....... were any PV1's built by NA aircraft under contract for Lockheed?


I don't think so and if they were they would carry a Lockheed part number.


----------



## jetavionics (Dec 18, 2006)

Hello All,

It's likely that the metal for the repair was from an abandoned NA plane. The rest could be anything. Most large parts like horizontals have a data plate near the root. If the root is still there.


----------



## Wrath1 (Dec 19, 2006)

Ok, I'm bored and it will not stop raining. Its been raining for over 24 hours now! 

So, not to rub it in or anything but...meaning I know some of you are in cold places, enjoy the pic below and may it warm your senses in that winter land you live in.

Actually I miss the cold weather and love snow! Sorry this is off-topic.


----------



## R-2800 (Dec 19, 2006)

nice pic!


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 20, 2006)

Really nice, glorious sunset picture...


----------



## timshatz (Dec 20, 2006)

Yeah nice shot. Understand it can get a bit boring after a while (one more day in paradise). It's 42F and 2Pm. Going down to the high 20s tonight. That pic looks very....warm.


----------



## Wrath1 (Dec 21, 2006)

timshatz said:


> Yeah nice shot. Understand it can get a bit boring after a while (one more day in paradise). It's 42F and 2Pm. Going down to the high 20s tonight. That pic looks very....warm.



You are right; it can get very boring out here after a while. I'm tired of the isolationism. I've got five months left and I'm forcing myself to stay these five. I love the place but, there just isn't too much to do after a few years. Not only that but, I'm not learning anything new.

If I could I'd trade weather conditions with you believe it or not.

Thanks!

And thanks to everyone who has responded too!

It is still raining...Friday isn't going to happen as far as the wing. I'm going to get out there Saturday and try it. I've got a friend I work with who has said he would help dig up the wing too. He brought up the idea of trying to pull it out with a chain attached to our vehicle. I'm thinking this will only tear it apart though.

I'll let you guys know though!


----------



## one0nine (Dec 24, 2006)

Wrath, you've got an email...


----------



## Wildcat (Jan 8, 2007)

Any update on this?


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 8, 2007)

Hey guys, sorry but I just haven't been out to the wing yet. I got sick for a few days; then we actually got a bit busy for a few more days and now the tide isn't matching up with the times I have available to visit the wing.

I've got Saturday and Sunday off. I will go out there Saturday forsure.

Sorry!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 8, 2007)

Nice shot, hope you're feeling better!


----------



## timshatz (Jan 8, 2007)

Wow, beauty of a shot.


----------



## syscom3 (Jan 8, 2007)

yes, thats a great shot.

Any chance for you to go out on the reef and take some pictures of the isalnd? I wonder what the invading troops saw as they approached the island.


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 9, 2007)

You know that's a hard one. I mean, Roi was bombed real hard before the initial invasion. Not only that but, the island it self has changed a lot in over 60 years.

This first picture is one of the islands the Marines had to secure. I believe it's the last one listed on the last pic; east reef. I will take a picture as I'm heading to Roi from another island just as soon as my camera arrives...any day now...I hope


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 9, 2007)

Great pics however.


----------



## HealzDevo (Jan 9, 2007)

Any more known about that wing?


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 10, 2007)

Sorry but all that is known about this wing is within this thread. Hopefully soon something will happen to finally give some answers.

 My camera still hasn't arrived! I was in the area of the wing today about mid tide and took the below pics with the evidence camera. I really dislike this camera.

I was surprised to see how much more the wing is exposed than compared to when I first found it. I still couldn't budge the thing though. I have also decided to just wait until nature digs this thing out, for I know if I get in there and try to get it, I'll tear it apart more than it already is. I'm trying to get the island manager to set this wing up somewhere for display when it's fully exposed. It amazes me how just a few short months ago this entire wing was burried in the sand. 

Looking at this first picture: The tide was incomming. It goes out probably ten to fifteen feet away from the wing.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 10, 2007)

Wow lets hope that a storm does not come and take the wing back out to see.

So how often do you guys get really bad storms out there?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 10, 2007)

Man I would love to visit that place, sorry I just thought about that while looking at those 2 pics.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 10, 2007)

Very cool!


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 10, 2007)

There really are no bad storms out here. Seriously! I've been here three years and only once did a somewhat strong storm hit. We were a bit worried about that storm that hit Wake a few months ago though. Actually I beleive a big storm would do some good in getting this thing out of the sand.

Well, if you've got the money, get you a plane ticket to Ebeye, Marshall Islands. You can fly from Kwaj to Roi for free but, you can not stay on Roi. Bring some camping gear and we will visit some islands with a few local national friends I have out here.

Yea I know, easier said than done.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 10, 2007)

How do you fly from Kwaj to Roi for free. Seriously if I had the time I would do this.


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 10, 2007)

On this plane!

It's like a ferry of sorts and it's free because the U.S. Army fits the bill! In fact, in this picture, the plane is comming from Kwaj. Only a 15 min flight.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 10, 2007)

Even for civilians if you are free. I have not been in the Army since October but I do hold a government ID Card because I work for the military in Germany.


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 10, 2007)

Yes, the flight is free for everyone. The only thing is, you will have to be escorted by the police to the outprocessing station. Local Nationals fly free every day...it's their only means of transportation most of the time.

If you hold an American ID card, even easier! If you are German it can still be done. Just understand this is an American Army base even if it looks like a resort. There are rules and regulations that must be followed.

And of course, for the record, I'll have to report this to MI, especially if you are German. It's still not a problem though.


----------



## syscom3 (Jan 10, 2007)

Wrath, thanks for these pictures. We all apreciate it. Can you send some more of the smaller islands? Its almost like a picture postcard.

Any chance you can get down to take some pics of the Prinz Eugen?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 10, 2007)

Wrath1 said:


> Yes, the flight is free for everyone. The only thing is, you will have to be escorted by the police to the outprocessing station. Local Nationals fly free every day...it's their only means of transportation most of the time.
> 
> If you hold an American ID card, even easier! If you are German it can still be done. Just understand this is an American Army base even if it looks like a resort. There are rules and regulations that must be followed.
> 
> And of course, for the record, I'll have to report this to MI, especially if you are German. It's still not a problem though.



I know all about the rules. I am a US Citizen, hold a US Passport, and a US Army ID Card. I work on a US Army military base. The same base that I was stationed on when I was in the US Army.

Oh well I dont even have the time to visit atleast not in the near future.


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 10, 2007)

I'll try to get more pics up here in a few days.!

The below pic is of one of the few outer-islands that are actually inhabited by people. The coral is such that we have to anchor our boat a few hundred yards out and walk to shore. I'm not sure of this island's name. I'll check on it though.

DerAdlerIstGelandet,

Too bad man! Let me know...being you American and hold the ID you hold, I can arrange for you to stay on Roi! I'm out of here in a few months though.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 10, 2007)

Wow that would be awesome, I would love to go and see this place. Too little time though my friend.


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 11, 2007)

Finally my new camera has arrived! 

Here is one of the first pics taken today by my new camera! I'll have more of the wing shortly! The wing isn't too far from this shot!


----------



## timshatz (Jan 11, 2007)

Wrath, you gotta know you're killing us with these shots. It's 9:34am in Philadelphia and 26F. Sunny day, Dry, and cold. You're out in Paradise man.


----------



## R-2800 (Jan 11, 2007)

I agree it is cold on the East Coast!!


----------



## Chingachgook (Jan 11, 2007)

Wrath1,

Really awesome - the islands are beautiful. 
We hold our breath and wait for more pics of the wing. 
Could the rest of the plane be attached?

thanks


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 12, 2007)

Thanks for the interest and comments on the pics all! No, I do not think the wing is attached to anything.

Here is a picture of just one of the Japanese fortifications on Roi. There are about 10 bunkers still standing. It's really cool because if you get close you can still see 50.cal rounds stuck in the wall, shrapnel in the wall as well as on the ground around the bunkers.

For those of you who have commented in this thread as of today; if you are interested, I'd be willing to mail you an old Coke bottle with some sand in it from out here. Coke bottles are everywhere! They wash up from the surf, litter the sea bed and can be found in the jungle. Dates are clearly visible still on the bottles with the most common dates being 1944 and 45.

If you want one, PM me your mailing address and I'll ship one out to you free of charge. Make sure you say if you want sand in it or not.


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 12, 2007)

This is what one may look like if you want one. Understand that the green color glass is more rare. The white glass is more common. 

This one is mine! I took it from the bottom of the sea bed in about 20 feet of water. I didn't clean it because I think items are more interesting with the years of wear and tear showing.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 12, 2007)

that's quite interesting, must be very interesting seeing coke bottles all over a pacific island like that  it really does look beautiful out there though, how much of an interest has your manager shown in the wing?


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 13, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> that's quite interesting, must be very interesting seeing coke bottles all over a pacific island like that  it really does look beautiful out there though, how much of an interest has your manager shown in the wing?



You know it almost sounds as if you do not understand the "coke bottles". They do not literally "litter" this place. Over sixty years in one place has covered them with dirt, coral and jungle. They expose themselves every now and then; perhaps I should have described it a bit better?

Anyway,

So far five people have requested a bottle. I'll get them out in the mail in a few days. One, though, forgot to leave his/her address. I replied with a PM to your mail asking you to include your address!

I thought I'd include a pic of a few locals This isn't Roi, but an island in habited by local Marshallese.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 13, 2007)

they live on a remote pacific island far from america yet at 4/5 years old they know the horns symbol and the two fingers gesture


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 14, 2007)

The kids out here like to mimic what they see on American movies 

I had a request for pictures of some of the other smaller islands. This first one is very small! In fact, if the tides become any higher this island will not be anymore! I global warming is a debated issue in today's world but, since I've been out here the tides have gotten bigger and bigger. Just a year ago this first island was bigger and had more trees. If you were able to view the largest size of this pic you would be able to see all the roots exposed which means the trees on the outer ring of this island will go soon 

The second picture is a bigger island. Much smaller than Roi but, still big. Marines raided this island and from what I've been told, it still looks somewhat the same as it did when the Marines landed

I've got an idea too! While uploading these pictures I noticed that it's possible to upload video. I'll try to get some video of the wing uploaded in a few days.

To give you an idea of the erosion that has been taking place out here I have posted a third pic that was taken about eight months ago for you to compare to. The man you see in this picture actually lives on this small island for months at a time. I've been camping on this small island too.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 14, 2007)

you can definately see the difference, but either way it must be amazing to do things like that! i bet you never want to give this job up?


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 14, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> you can definately see the difference, but either way it must be amazing to do things like that! i bet you never want to give this job up?




I do when I'm around the B/S pollitcal American mainstream. I don't when I'm out with the local nationals off this "base". I'm out of here more than likely in a few months. 

The thing is, though, I can always come back No matter where I go, who I work for or how long I'm gone, all I have to do is make a phone call and tell a friend of mine I'm on my way to visit and camp...I've already been given this honor!

Pic one: Japanese Headquarters - severly damaged by bombing.

Pic two: Japanese Air-Raid shelter...it took three direct hits by Naval guns as you can see; and that's just on the side showing. 

Pic three: Inside the Japanese Air-Raid shelter - We are not supposed to go inside these bunkers but, for this forum anything!


----------



## lesofprimus (Jan 14, 2007)

Very very interesting stuff Wrath... Lookin forward to the vid clippage...


----------



## Gnomey (Jan 14, 2007)

Yep the video should be interesting. Good stuff, thanks for sharing.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 14, 2007)

Yes very cool. Thanks for pics.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 14, 2007)

them hits from the navy are very impressive in terms of damage, wouldn't have liked to've been in there at the time!


----------



## Chingachgook (Jan 14, 2007)

I am amazed to see that the Japanese had added some architectural sensibility to the building in the first image, especially condidering the circumstances and remote location. They were/are an interesting culture. It is like the Germans using Art Deco on the Atlantic wall. 

Wrath1 we keep learning things because of our connection with you.


----------



## HealzDevo (Jan 14, 2007)

How interesting, thank-you for sharing those photos. Looking forward to harvesting them for my collection when I get home. Anymore on the way?


----------



## R-2800 (Jan 14, 2007)

those pics are intersting cool buildings too


----------



## syscom3 (Jan 14, 2007)

The Marshall Islands were part of the mandates given to Japan after WW1 ended. Its possible that was an old German Colonial building.


----------



## Wildcat (Jan 15, 2007)

Excellent pics.


----------



## evangilder (Jan 15, 2007)

Very interesting stuff.


----------



## timshatz (Jan 15, 2007)

Great stuff and very interesting pics.


----------



## v2 (Jan 16, 2007)

cool pics and very interesting stuff.


----------



## Wrath1 (Jan 16, 2007)

Glad everyone likes the pics! Just don't let me catch you making money off them       

Anyway, here are a few more pics. The first is the front side of the Japanese HQ building. And the Japanese did build this thing; it wasn't left over from the Germans as one suggested as a possibility. I'll post some photos of other buildings that are still standing. 

In this pic you can get a better appreciation of the attack that was unleashed on this building. Granted it was bombed by planes and Naval guns before the initial invasion by U.S. Marines.

The second pic is I found rather interesting. Being that Roi was an airfield - air-base for the Japanese as well as Americans when they took it over, there were many parts of planes and wrecked planes littering the island. Well, someone got the ingenious idea to construct a coral "sculpture" out of the muffler parts of planes. These parts were welded together to form this coral head you see in the picture. Loose pieces of these muffler parts are still found.

The third pic is of a propeller that has somehow managed to survive intact, though a bit worse for wear Perhaps this is part of the same plane the wing pictured above is from, for ony a few hundred yards separate both their current respective resting spots   

The fourth pic is of the tenth stop in the "Roi-Namur WWII battlefield tour"...I start day shift in two weeks  Once there I'll go around and take pictures of all the stops on this battle field tour and do up some kind of a virtual tour for you guys here online!

The fifth pic is a cropped close up of pic four! I'll do this close up cropping too for the "virtual battlefield tour"!

Also, I'll start getting out those coke bottles too. I'll reply to your PM once is has been sent.


----------



## timshatz (Jan 16, 2007)

I remember reading about that. Weren't there something like 200 torpedoes in there when they lit them off?


----------



## evangilder (Jan 16, 2007)

Neat stuff!


----------



## R-2800 (Jan 16, 2007)

wow that must have been a big explosion!


----------



## HealzDevo (Jan 16, 2007)

Yes, must have felt like an earthquake when that much explosive went off. Imagine the shockwave...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 17, 2007)

Wow very nice pics.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 17, 2007)

i particularly like the pipe sculpture.........


----------



## Gnomey (Jan 17, 2007)

Yeah good use of the things lying around.


----------



## Jens Erik (Jan 18, 2007)

Really cool pictures, Wrath!!

If you are still interested in swapping weather, you have a deal.
Here in Denmark we have heavy overcast, rain and about +5 deg. C.

BTW those coke bottles look quite intact. I would have expected them to worn totally down after so many years exposure.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 20, 2007)

well glass is very resistant and the weather's not too bad over here!


----------



## Cienfuegos (Jan 20, 2007)

Was doing some poking around....

My guess it is a rear stablizer from an american aircraft or rear elevator this is do to the size of the flap or hinged part of the wreckage..


B-29





http://www.neam.org/images/b29tail2.jpg[img]

[img]http://www.dustbunny.com/photos/2004/airfair/17_b29tail.jpg

Model of B-29 rear elevator





b-24















b-17






b-25





a-20


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 21, 2007)

could well be, how exposed is she now?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 21, 2007)

We need more pics!!!!


----------



## HealzDevo (Jan 21, 2007)

Sounds interesting. Could be on the right track...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 21, 2007)

HealzDevo said:


> Sounds interesting. Could be on the right track...



Yep - he only posted every US bomber of WW2!


----------



## HealzDevo (Jan 21, 2007)

Be interesting to have a definitive idea of what it is though...


----------



## syscom3 (Jan 21, 2007)

I doubt its off a B29.

The only way we can determine what it came off of is too look closely at the skin rivit patterns and see if it matches an allied wing.


----------



## Wildcat (Jan 21, 2007)

I still reckon its from a B-25. Maybe we should place bets..?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 21, 2007)

As stated - it's part number sequence matches what was put out by North American.


----------



## Cienfuegos (Jan 23, 2007)

Ok North American it is...


b-25, b-26, p-51, t-6 and or Beech AT-11


P-51











T-6





B-26





AT-11





B-25


----------



## HealzDevo (Jan 23, 2007)

Nice Pictures those, will have to steal some of them later...


----------



## mikek (Feb 5, 2007)

I am new to this site,but please some more about this wing or what ever.Also any idea where I can get some info on how to read the letters and numbers on German fighters, I mean what seperates them by JG and such. thanks MORE from the island please Pictures? etc thanks Love the site


----------



## HealzDevo (Feb 6, 2007)

I think that everything that the person knows has been posted. I really don't think there is anymore there to say.


----------



## YakFlyer (Feb 8, 2007)

Hey folks, utterly fascinating stuff. I am agreeing with Cienfuegos re: a tail plane section of a bomber of some sort.

Keep us updated Wrath1, and a very interesting insight, very much appreciated.


----------



## eHangar (Feb 26, 2007)

I've read through all 11 pages of this thread and have to say I really enjoy the intrigue that's developed here, plus all of Wrath1's fantastic photos.

I look forward to more pix of the wing and everyone here chipping in to help solve the mystery. 8)


----------



## ohka345 (Mar 11, 2007)

I bet it's a Zero's wing!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Mar 11, 2007)

ohka345 said:


> I bet it's a Zero's wing!


Kid - read the whole post - we identified the part numbers and even some of the rivet heads on the wing - If it was Japanese it probably would of corroded away years ago...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 11, 2007)

Oh boy, again have you gone through and read the thread from beginning to end? Come on kid!


----------



## Marcel (Mar 11, 2007)

The guy is 11 years old, really just a kid.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 12, 2007)

I know...

As FBJ said it like P38 Pilot on crack!


----------



## syscom3 (Mar 12, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I know...
> 
> As FBJ said it like P38 Pilot on crack!



P38 Pilot was "teachable", thus tolerated.

I wonder what happened to him?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 12, 2007)

I was thinking the same thing actually.


----------



## Bullockracing (Mar 19, 2007)

Vertical stabilizer off a B-24? Trying to think of other aircraft with a near-vertical tailfin... Hmmm...


----------



## net_sailor (Mar 21, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I know...
> 
> As FBJ said it like P38 Pilot on crack!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 21, 2007)




----------



## Bullockracing (Mar 22, 2007)

Bullockracing said:


> Vertical stabilizer off a B-24? Trying to think of other aircraft with a near-vertical tailfin... Hmmm...



Duh - missed a page... North American... Hmmm...


----------



## lesofprimus (Mar 22, 2007)

Sure sounds like the Canadians were a bunch of pill poppin speed freaks...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 22, 2007)




----------



## Adamshive (Dec 30, 2012)

Just stumbled upon this 6 year old thread While searching Google for images of World War II aerial reconnaissance cameras. I don't really know how that directed me here but I'm really curious about this "wing". Does anyone have any updates?

Ended up joining this forum simply because of this post. It's pretty cool.


----------



## Gastounet (Jan 1, 2013)

I'm a little like Adamshive : I have discovered this thread because of his post, and I wish I could know the end of the story.


----------



## Marcel (Jan 1, 2013)

The topic starter hasn't been here for 5 years. You can only try to pm or e-mail him and hope he still reads the e-mail account attached.
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/members/wrath1/


----------



## daveT (Jan 15, 2013)

Matching Consolidated inspection stamp

The End of this story!
The wing section was from a Consolidated model 29, also called a PB2Y Coronado. Model 29 matches the prefix of the part number, also Consolidated stamp hiding under a rivet matches. NAA doesn't use a letter after the prefix so it can't be NAA. According to AAIR Aviation Archaeological Investigation and Research data base shows 2 strike level losses of PB2Y at Kwajalein, maybe this is a piece of one? One listed at the seaplane base, one at Eyebe Island. The one at Eyebe is mentioned as a dive destination.
ALOHA
DaveT


----------



## Njaco (Jan 15, 2013)

Thanks Dave!


----------



## Capt. Vick (Jan 15, 2013)

A Coronado huh? That's a rare bird, only one left at NMNA.


----------



## daveT (Jan 15, 2013)

I hope the piece is recovered and put on display.
DaveT


----------



## woljags (Jan 15, 2013)

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...=wM0t-D7RoEaYSzhRV5Fcyw&bvm=bv.41018144,d.d2k


----------



## Capt. Vick (Jan 15, 2013)

Same here Dave. It looks so new.


----------



## daveT (Jan 16, 2013)

Here is the two possible PB2Y candidates:
date: 440914 | PB2Y-3 | 7068 |assigned RES SQ-1 FAW-2 from NAS Kaneohe Bay 
pilot Harkness, Leonard L. | location Marshall Islands, Kwajalein Atoll, Ebeye Island

date: 450212 | PB2Y-5R | 7075 | assigned to VR-2 from NAS Alameda
pilot: Parker, William R. Jr. |location Marshall Islands, Kwajalein
Atoll, seaplane area

Both strike level accidents with fatalities. A diving website mentions the
nose of a Coronado near Eyebe Island being a dive destination.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 16, 2013)

Great info! It took a few years but it looks like a done deal!


----------



## SPEKTRE76 (Jan 17, 2013)

I wonder if that wing and the rest of the bird can be excavated and put on display?


----------



## Gastounet (Jan 24, 2013)

I was away from home for a few days, and I hope I'm not too late to thank DaveT


----------



## prem895 (May 15, 2013)

This thread was great


----------

