# Siege of Leningrad, 1941-1944



## Ramirezzz (Sep 9, 2008)

Exactly 67 years ago at 9 September Germans surrounded the city of Leningrad cutting off all supply lines. The siege lasted 872 days, some 1,2 million of Leningrad citizens died from hunger, cold and German bombardments.

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## v2 (Sep 9, 2008)

...


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## timshatz (Sep 9, 2008)

Read a book on it about 10 years ago. Unfortunately, there has not been a flood of books from Russia since the Soviet Union dropped off the map. Too bad 'cause there is a story there that really isn't known in the west. Beyond "Enemy at the Gates", "Stalingrad" and a few others, it really is an unknown and vitally important war in the west.

But back to the book. Very good book. Can not remember the name but the details and how they kept battling was incredible. It had stories in it of everything from cannibalism (usually instant execution by the local authorities) to starvation (common, especially amongst kids) to a tenacity amongst the defenders that defies belief. They just wouldn't give up.


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## Matt308 (Sep 9, 2008)

I look forward to this thread Ramirezzz.


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## pbfoot (Sep 9, 2008)

was it 900 Days I think written by Cornelius Ryan


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## timshatz (Sep 9, 2008)

pbfoot said:


> was it 900 Days I think written by Cornelius Ryan



Probably was. He was a writer who had the knack of making a story interesting. Not that Lenningrad wasn't by itself. But he did the same thing with Overlord and Arnhem. 

Good read.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 9, 2008)

Still inbelievable the Russians held there own for 900 days!


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## Ramirezzz (Sep 9, 2008)

B-17engineer said:


> Still inbelievable the Russians held there own for 900 days!



they hadn't much choice either. “All offers of surrender from Leningrad must be rejected,” wrote Adolph Hitler on September 29, 1941 in his order.


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## RabidAlien (Sep 9, 2008)

Say what you will about their politics, but those Russians had guts! Nerves of steel, balls of titanium.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 9, 2008)

What was the Casualty toll on the Russians side...( Troops and Civilians )


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## Ramirezzz (Sep 9, 2008)

B-17engineer said:


> What was the Casualty toll on the Russians side...( Troops and Civilians )



army and fleet:
irrecoverable:
332,059 KIAs, 111000 MIAs

civilian casualties:

1200000-1500000 dead.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 9, 2008)

Thanks. How about the German Army?


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## Ramirezzz (Sep 9, 2008)

the Symphony No. 7 of Shostakovich , was written in the city under starvation , cold and artillery shells . Buy it now guys, it's a scream and triumph at the same time.


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## Ramirezzz (Sep 9, 2008)

B-17engineer said:


> Thanks. How about the German Army?



half a million estimated. Altough I dunno know if the wounded are included as well.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 9, 2008)

Thanks again


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## Matt308 (Sep 9, 2008)

A true travesty in human history. God damn all those who orchestrated such a plan. Every one of them.


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## Ramirezzz (Sep 9, 2008)

images of Piskarevskoe cemetry in Leningrad. Some 600 thousands are buried there. Just in one cemetry.
"Wandering Camera" - Notes about St.Petersburg and it's suburbs


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## timshatz (Sep 11, 2008)

Ramirezzz said:


> the Symphony No. 7 of Shostakovich , was written in the city under starvation , cold and artillery shells . Buy it now guys, it's a scream and triumph at the same time.



Have heard. More common in the west than you would think. I believe it is because of Lennigrad that it is played. Usually backround music for shows dealing with Lennigrad.


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## Medvedya (Sep 12, 2008)

The thing that always makes me think about Blockada is when I recognise the places in photographs. 

The fifth photograph down on the first page is on Nevsky Prospekt - I walk around there - go to a cafe with friends, browse the books in Dom Kneegi, catch the Metro to Primorskaya - all nice, normal life, and yet 62 years ago on that very place it was Hell on Earth with no lights, no food, artillery shells, and people dropping dead in the street. 

They kept the radio station going - and when they were off air they played the sound of a metronome to show that the radio was still working. Some veterans of Blockada still cannot bear to listen to the tick tock sound of one even today. 

To give you an idea of how bad it was, here is the bread rations for November 1941 (the first winter of the Blockade)

Bread
250 g daily for manual workers 
125 g daily for other civilians.

The bread was half made from sawdust, (there's a sample of a slice in the Blockade Museum) and there was no fats, or meat, or sugar, so the dogs, cats and rats of the city were eaten, as well as any medicines, and even the wallpaper was stripped off the walls and boiled up to get the glue off it. 

Things got slightly better in January 1942, when the Doroga Zhizyen or 'Road of Life' was opened across Lake Ladoga which was frozen solid, but even then it was still incredibly hard to get food over to the city until the Blockade was finally broken during Operation Spark in January 1943.

During the Blockade an 11 year old girl called Tanya Savicheva kept a diary which is preserved in the St. Petersburg City History Museum. 

Zhenya died on Dec. 28th at 12:30 A.M. 1941 

Grandma died on Jan. 25th 3:00 P.M. 1942

Leka died on March 5th at 5:00 A.M. 1942

Uncle Vasya died on Apr. 13th at 2:00 after midnight 1942

Uncle Lesha on May 10th at 4:00 P.M. 1942

Mother on May 13th at 7:30 A.M. 1942

Savichevs died.

Everyone died.

Only Tanya is left.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 12, 2008)

Wow...I can't imagine living under those conditions


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## Medvedya (Sep 12, 2008)

But the citizens of the city _never_ gave up hope for a moment - I once met some veterans and I asked them; "Did you think you were going to make it when the trams started working again?" and their answer was; "Oh - we always believed we going to make it." 

A very, very, special type of people who can think like that.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 12, 2008)

Wow that is real determination


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## Medvedya (Sep 12, 2008)

Here is the Defence of Leningrad Medal - http://www.anythinganywhere.com/commerce/military/ussr-def-len-t1-2.jpg

It was awarded to all soldiers, sailors and civilians involved in the defence of the city, and who fought in the terrible battles in the countryside just outside.

Nevsky Pyatachok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's only just now that trees are begining to grow around there again, because the earth was so contaminated with explosive.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 12, 2008)

Thats a lot of explosives


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## Medvedya (Sep 12, 2008)

And all the helmets, gas masks, bullets, rifles, mortars - it's all still there. I know someone who once went out camping on the Neva Bridgehead as a kid with a friend of his. 

First thing they did was set up a campfire right? Well, they forgot to dig a fire pit first, and unknowingly had their fire right above an unexploded mortar shell just below the earth.

Which went off - killed the friend outright, and the guy I know was lucky to only have a chunk of his leg taken out by it. 

He is now a battlefield archeologist with one of the official historical clubs in Pieter.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 12, 2008)

Omg thats really scary....so basically the other friend was a casualty of WWII


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## JugBR (Sep 12, 2008)

ramirez, a question for you:

is right say "siege of leningrad" ? since the city wasnt absolutely under siege by germans, because finish didnt advanced to close the circle around leningrad.


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## B-17engineer (Sep 13, 2008)

The Eastern Front Index


Here's a good site about battles on the eastern front


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## Medvedya (Sep 13, 2008)

JugBR said:


> ramirez, a question for you:
> 
> is right say "siege of leningrad" ? since the city wasnt absolutely under siege by germans, because finish didnt advanced to close the circle around leningrad.



Of course Leningrad was under siege. The Finnish Army was in the Karelian Isthmus in the North, and Petrozavodsk in the North East, Lake Ladoga was due East, the Baltic was to the West, and the Germans had occupied all of the southern coast of Ladoga, including the towns of Schlisselburg and Mga.


http://www.ido.edu.ru/ffec/hist/images/H_4.jpg

Look! Big lake in the way!


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## parsifal (Sep 14, 2008)

I dont think many of us have much concept of the true horror of this battle. I have read stories of the depths that the Russians had to descend, just to stay alive. Stories of eating rats, even cutting up dead people, just to keep starvation at bay. People driven to trying to eat grass and straw.

The efforts of the Russians to keep the "Ice Road" open are also amazing.

The Germans maintain that several weeks after the start of the war, the Germans had the opportunity to take the city by Coup De Main. Not sure about that, but it is the conventional wisdom.

Have a few photos of VVS units in the Leningrad sector, will post them tomorrow.


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## Medvedya (Sep 15, 2008)

I heard a story where some workmen went down into the sewers and they were attacked by the rats, who were as much starving as the rest of the city.

Two of the workmen got out just in time, but the third was caught by the rat swarm.... 

Possibly one of the nastiest ways to go in my reckoning.


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## Freebird (Aug 4, 2009)

Medvedya said:


> But the citizens of the city _never_ gave up hope for a moment - I once met some veterans and I asked them; "Did you think you were going to make it when the trams started working again?" and their answer was; "Oh - we always believed we going to make it."
> 
> A very, very, special type of people who can think like that.



What I've wondered, why didn't they try to evacuate more civilians? Especially the children elderrly, they wouldn't be much use in the defence, and would just use up rations. There must have been lots of space on trucks exiting Leningrad over the ice road, as after delivering their supplies, they would have to return empty. { or perhaps with wounded}


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## RabidAlien (Aug 6, 2009)

Possibly because Stalin saw the general population as just another hinderance to the Nazi advance? Leaving civilians in the city, they would always have to be on the lookout for partisans, spies, saboteurs....not to mention the burden of having to feed the "captured" population. Evacuated, Stalin himself would have to assume the responsibility for feeding, clothing, and sheltering them (to a certain extent....Russia itself would have to look after their welfare). My guess is that Stalin viewed them as expendable, squishy speedbumps to be tossed in front of the Nazi war machine.


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## Messy1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I have heard that Hitler was so fanatical about Stalingrad, that he tried to take command and give block by block orders? Anyone have any info on this?


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## parsifal (Aug 6, 2009)

Stalin would not allow an evacuation of the city, because it would make the troops fight harder, or so he believed


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## Ferdinand Foch (Aug 9, 2009)

Wait, Pb and tim, I think your thinking of 900 Days by Harrison Salisbury, not Cornelius Ryan. I have a copy, just haven't gotten around to reading it yet. Story of my life. 

As for the civilians, that sounds just like something Stalin would do. I cannot even fathom on what the Russian people went through during those 900 days. I think this is something that you have to experience personally in order to fully understand it. Well, here's my two cents.


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