# Secrets of a Soviet MiG Killer



## Capt. Vick (Sep 20, 2021)



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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 20, 2021)

Great clip, love Ward's stuff!

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## Wurger (Sep 20, 2021)




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## rob23 (Oct 11, 2021)

This was very cool. A long time ago I read something about USN F-8's engaging and shooting down some Chinese MiGs but don't remember enough detail to find any relevant stories or information about this. Does this ring any bells for anyone?


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## SaparotRob (Oct 11, 2021)

On Ward Carrol's channel he did something about a pilot whose talley was hushed up because he shot down MiGs that were flown by Russians. Could that be that be it? Then again, it might have on Ed Nash's site. Now I can't remember if it was in an F-8.


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## SaparotRob (Oct 11, 2021)

Sheesh, I shoulda' scrolled up.


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## Dimlee (Oct 24, 2021)

I read several versions (US and Soviet/Russian) of that accident. But this is the first time I listen to Royce Williams himself. Great interview.

What is still unclear for me: real motives of the sides involved. There was no doubt in November 1952 that F9F was inferior to MiG-15. So why send Panthers to intercept MiGs? MiG-15 could hardly be a threat to US ships (I can not agree with what Ward Carroll said at 09:38 about "saved USS Oriskany...". MiG-15 strafing the aircraft carrier?) 
Or was there a mistake of identification and someone decided they were Il-28s? 
On the Soviet side. Why attack US aircraft in that area? Not the single unescorted recon flight but several fighters in the vicinity of the aircraft carrier group? Since Soviet documents remain classified, we'll hardly know the answers soon.

Also discussed there:





F2H Banshee vs F9F Panther


The F2H Banshee and the F9F Panther were among the US Navy's first jet fighters. They fought concurrently in the Korean War, but neither saw much service in the air-to-air fighter role, because as first generation straight-winged jets, they gave up too much performance to the Mig-15...



ww2aircraft.net





Side question: could F-86 survive after 60+ hits by 23mm and at least one by 37mm?

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## FLYBOYJ (Oct 24, 2021)

Dimlee said:


> I read several versions (US and Soviet/Russian) of that accident. But this is the first time I listen to Royce Williams himself. Great interview.
> 
> What is still unclear for me: real motives of the sides involved. There was no doubt in November 1952 that F9F was inferior to MiG-15. So why send Panthers to intercept MiGs? MiG-15 could hardly be a threat to US ships (I can not agree with what Ward Carroll said at 09:38 about "saved USS Oriskany...". MiG-15 strafing the aircraft carrier?)


Hi Dimlee - I cannot address the motives or intensions during this period, but is seems that air carrier group felt threatened by the flight of these MiGs. As far as the F9F - at the time it was the US Navy's top fighter despite being outclassed


Dimlee said:


> Or was there a mistake of identification and someone decided they were Il-28s?


That was a possibility


Dimlee said:


> On the Soviet side. Why attack US aircraft in that area? Not the single unescorted recon flight but several fighters in the vicinity of the aircraft carrier group? Since Soviet documents remain classified, we'll hardly know the answers soon.


Agree


Dimlee said:


> Also discussed there:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I worked on F-86s a bit and I can tell you they are very robust, especially around the wingbox/ center fuselage. The F-86 also had a triple redundant hydraulic system which would also play into it's survivability. For the most part I would guess no, but then again if I didn't know the details of this incident I would say that an F9F wouldn't survive 60+ hits by 23mm and at least one by 37mm either.

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## SaparotRob (Oct 24, 2021)

I wonder if a Sherman tank could stand up to 60+ hits from 23mm and at least one 37mm hit.

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## special ed (Oct 24, 2021)

On one occasion in 1960 I was told by the copilot of a mission in an A3D in which they were fired at and when the pilot racked the acft around, the copilot said, "What's going on?"
"Didn't you feel that?" replied the pilot.
After landing at base, one engine nacelle had been hit by two 23mm and one 37mm through and though with no explosion and no critical damage.

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## ARTESH (Nov 5, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> I wonder if a Sherman tank could stand up to 60+ hits from 23mm and at least one 37mm hit.


The late war models were able to resist some heavier calibres by their frontal armour, my guess is that they were able to survive if these shots were fired from dead ahead of the tank. About side and rear, the answer is no, regardless of model.

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## Gnomey (Nov 5, 2021)

Good stuff!


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