# Ft. Hood incident



## GrauGeist (Apr 2, 2014)

Reports of a shooter on base, several people injured, aparently the shooter is dead.

What the hell is going on, with all these shootings latelely??

Suspected Fort Hood shooter dead; injuries reported - CNN.com


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 2, 2014)

A few of my friends are stationed at Hood. Fortunately they have all checked in, and are all okay. By the FB posts from a few of them, they must have been pretty close, as they saw people being treated.


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## vikingBerserker (Apr 2, 2014)

The shooter was being treated for mental illness. Why the heck did he have access to a gun?


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## subkraft (Apr 4, 2014)

....because it is his inalienable right as an American.

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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 4, 2014)

subkraft said:


> ....because it is his inalienable right as an American.



*No - because he was in the US military and the last time I looked soldiers have access to and carry guns!!!* 

Folks - if this becomes political I'll close this thread in a New York minute.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 4, 2014)

The Military as well as civilians are required to abide by the law. This shooter showed disregard of the law, regardless of his method of inflicting injuries to others. Keep in mind that a U.S. soldier threw hand grenades around a compound several years ago, killing and wounding a number of fellow soldiers. This too, is considered illegal.

Using a weapon to attack and inflict harm to another person is illegal, period. Doesn't matter if they used a salad fork, a garden hoe or a firearm.

Carrying an unauthorized firearm aboard a military base is illegal. Period.

There will be public sentiment going either way about this shooting incident, but the bottom line is that the shooter was in the wrong from the very start, regardless of his methods and innocent people were harmed as a result.

To make a point, a British soldier was killed recently in London with a meat-cleaver (and knife). Killing with a meat-cleaver and/or knife is also illegal.


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## Totalize (Apr 4, 2014)

There are so many U.S. military bases similar to Fort Hood, though I heard on the news its definitely one of the biggest with up to 50,000 military personnel and their families residing on the base. However, I have not heard of this type of crazy behavior going on at other U.S. military bases. It certainly makes one wonder when you see this kind of thing twice in 4 years from the same place if there is some kind of breakdown in the process of managing this place. I don't think its enough to say its merely coincidence and its all the shooter's fault. If it was there would be no investigation and I am quite sure there will be some kind of forensic analysis of why this incident took place.


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## tyrodtom (Apr 4, 2014)

When I was in the US Army, and USAF if you had a private firearm on base you were required to keep it in the company, or squadron arms room. You signed it out when you wanted to use it ( hunting, target practice, etc.) you could not keep it overnight in your possession on base.
But there wasn't a set, service wide policy, this was in the 60s- early 70s, because the policy varied from base to base.

Military firearms were keep locked up in the arms room, unless you were training, on guard duty, or on duty requiring a firearm.
That was stateside, and overseas, except in combat zones.

I remember when my brother was on his second tour in Vietnam, 173rd Abn. They were there almost a month before they had their first combat death, but they had already lost 6 men thru various firearms mishaps.


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## vikingBerserker (Apr 4, 2014)

Just sad.


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## Totalize (Apr 7, 2014)

Sad to hear. The .50 Cal I heard was involved in a lot mishaps. It can be quite dangerous to the operator if not handled corretly and respected.


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## mikewint (Apr 7, 2014)

My understanding (from news reports) is that he (shooter) had been seeking help for PTSD though he had never actually been in combat. This was his second visit to the Med facilities having been there 30 days earlier. He had gotten into some type of arguement with several people and left. He returned shortly with a gun and began shooting. Apparently some of the victims were those he had argued with earlier. The gun was his privately owned. He did not live on base and had driven in so the gun was most likely in his car which are not searched.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 7, 2014)

Totalize said:


> Sad to hear. The .50 Cal I heard was involved in a lot mishaps. It can be quite dangerous to the operator if not handled corretly and respected.



He did not use a .50 Cal. It was a .45 Cal S&W.


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## Torch (Apr 8, 2014)

First off,I was happy to hear that my newly stationed at Ft.Hood niece is ok,she's in Medcorp and didn't hear from her for a long time. Second,just a fact and not political he bought that gun legally with a back ground check which does NOT check for mental illness,I don't think any do really. Which brings up the discussion on why can't atleast Sargents on up wear sidearms on base? Think it's a pretty good compromise from everybody wearing one especially those who have not had field experience..


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## GrauGeist (Apr 8, 2014)

Good to hear your niece is ok!

As far as firearms on military bases (stateside), DoD directive 5210.56, which was issued on February 25, 1992 authorizes DOD personnel "to carry firearms while engaged in law enforcement or security duties, protecting personnel, vital Government assets, or guarding prisoners".

If you wish to bring a firearm on base, you are required to register the weapon with the MPs at the gate and follow rules that are similiar to many state laws. The rules that apply are:

Concealed carry is not allowed.

All firearms are CASED and UNLOADED.

A cased firearm must not be readily accessible in the vehicle.

Ammo must be as far away from a cased firearm as possible; ammo should be cased, if practicable, and not readily accessible.

All magazines must be unloaded.

And the followed is expressly forbidden:

Explosive Weapons

Machine Guns

Short Barrelled Firearms

Firearm Silencer

Switchblade Knives

Knuckles (brass/steel)

Armor Piercing Ammunition

Chemical Dispensing Devices

Zip Guns

Clubs or Night Sticks

Illegal Knives

I don't have the DoD link handy covering all rhe rules, but it should be fairly easy to find with a search. Basically, a military installation is no different than many other places in regards to firearms and common sense always applies: When in doubt, ask


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## Torch (Apr 8, 2014)

I understand the rules but like the "Gun Free Zone" signs they obviously don't work. Something has to change. Lopez broke every rule mentioned.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 8, 2014)

Torch said:


> ..Lopez broke every rule mentioned.


And then some...

By the way, in some states, committing suicide is illegal, too...

All throughout history, people have become imbalanced and turned their anger/frustrations out on others. The problem (as I see it) is that in this day and age where it's happening with an alarming frequency, there has been a breakdown of the social ideology where harm to others is unacceptable and instant media access makes it become a global, rather than a local, event. We can all speculate on how why this is happening, but the fact of the matter is, it's happening and a solution needs to be found.


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 8, 2014)

"... in this day and age where it's happening with an alarming frequency...."

Feed-back loop, IMCO. Stoked by bad values dished out by the media, Hollywood and the "entertainment" industry and inflamed by technology aka social media (*twitter et al). I watched The Will Rogers Story the other afternoon and was struck by what a positive, healthy influence he was on a young, growing, troubled America. Where is today's Will Rogers .....? Where is that constructive influence .... not on the stage, not in Congress or political life at any level. Deeply troubling ....


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## GrauGeist (Apr 8, 2014)

Agreed!


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## Torch (Apr 8, 2014)

I would have to agree also..


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## pbehn (Apr 8, 2014)

A tragedy for all concerned, I hope you find a solution. There was a very involved and detailed article in the UK press about guns and gun control written by an American. The writer quite rightly pointed out many countries have more guns (like switzerland for example) but the difference was the attitude to mental illness. Not easy to find a solution, hope something changes.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 8, 2014)

Of course there will be a new round of gun control debate over this (and any other gun-related tragedy) but what they are failing to see, is that if a person has made up their mind to inflict harm on other people, they will whatever means is at their disposal. A bomb vest, knives, hammers, a vehicle, a rock or sharp-pointy stick. It makes no matter to them.

What needs to be looked at very closely, is why, in this day and age, are we having such an increase of violence when a century ago, when everybody had access to firearms, it wasn't such an epidemic.

Kids roaming the streets punching and knocking people out, at random is a clear indication that something in society is broken...


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## pbehn (Apr 8, 2014)

GrauGeist said:


> Of course there will be a new round of gun control debate over this (and any other gun-related tragedy) but what they are failing to see, is that if a person has made up their mind to inflict harm on other people, they will whatever means is at their disposal. A bomb vest, knives, hammers, a vehicle, a rock or sharp-pointy stick. It makes no matter to them.
> 
> What needs to be looked at very closely, is why, in this day and age, are we having such an increase of violence when a century ago, when everybody had access to firearms, it wasn't such an epidemic.
> 
> Kids roaming the streets punching and knocking people out, at random is a clear indication that something in society is broken...



GG that was the basic theme of what the guy was saying. Guns per se are not the problem it is why people with mental problems feel the need to "take revenge" on others, people that in many cases have no connection with them, frequently school kids, we have had it in UK to. Thats enough from me before I piss people of. Best wishes to the bereaved.


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## Torch (Apr 8, 2014)

Tough to figure out,you have the right to docter/patient priviledge but at what point does the Doc throw the flag and say whoa we have a problem with a person,Everyone of these shooters had mental issues yet no docs came forth to flag the person except for a recent case in Colorado where the person planned to go on a shooting spree at a Halloween kiddie party. The doc blew the whistle and another tragedy was prevented..If the mental issue goes public,minor or major it can mess your future up big time. Heck I think half the pshyc docs are a little screwy themselves..


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## buffnut453 (Apr 8, 2014)

The biggest challenge is determining when someone becomes a threat to themselves and/or to others. It's impossible to predict what series of events might push someone over the edge, and equally impossible to do anything about it once that tipping point is reached...unless the doc is seeing the individual multiple times per day (like I said, impossible). 

One of my frustrations is the constant focus on "bad people with guns can only be neutralized by good people with guns." The assumption is that we're all (mostly) good people. Unfortunately, that logic doesn't jive with my paragraph above. Everyone is susceptible to a chain of events that might result in temporarily insane action. Look at the retired policeman who shot a father in a Florida cinema in January this year. This retired cop was probably a pillar of society (so character witnesse have testified) and yet he killed a husband and father over texting during a movie...and the victim was texting his young daughter who was at home. What started out as a simple argument escalated to a tipping point where a gun was drawn and a man was killed. 

It's simply impossible to determine who are the good guys and who are the bad guys and we, as society, need to recognize that we all have tipping points rather than blithely assume that we always wear the white hat while the person in the black hat is always "the other guy".


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## GrauGeist (Apr 8, 2014)

Another observation of today's environment, is that people are quick to extreme violence.

When I was a kid, if a dispute broke out where blows were tossed, it stayed at that level and the first guy down signalled the end of the fight. The winner backed off, the loser got up, dusted himself off and that was that.

Nowdays, if the fight stays with fists, the guy that goes down gets face-kicked, neck-stomped and more often, the winner's friends jump in and help kick the loser into a pink bag of jelly. 

It seems to me that the younger generation has been led to beleive that there are no serious consequences for their actions, that if anything goes wrong, it's the fault of society.


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 9, 2014)

"...no serious consequences for their actions..."

Nailed it. I blame Walt Disney and Road Runner for today's delusional state


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## Torch (Apr 9, 2014)

LOL watched all those cartoons,Bugs,Elmer Fudd etc. Been shooting since I was 9 yrs old with an air rifle,Never in my wildest dreams would I ever contemplate going to the extremes of using firearms on humans unless myself and family are in an unavoidable situation. And there's truth in the old days,used to have fight,win or lose you get over it and move on.If you watch youtube street fights its nothing but brute savagery. If this cycle continues it will just get worse.


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## Torch (Apr 9, 2014)

Speaking of the devil,20 people stabbed at a Pennsylvania high school,1 person in custody.


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## buffnut453 (Apr 9, 2014)

Thankfully nobody was killed and, according to reporting, the wounds are not life-threatening. Could have been a very different story.


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## mikewint (Apr 9, 2014)

A student flashing two knives went on a stabbing rampage through the classrooms and halls of a high school outside Pittsburgh on Wednesday morning, authorities said. At least 19 students and a security guard were hurt, some with life-threatening injuries.
The suspect, a 16-year-old sophomore, was in custody and being questioned by police, authorities said. His motive was unclear, said Dan Stevens, a Westmoreland County emergency management spokesman.
The first photo of the suspect emerged several hours after the mayhem. NBC News is blurring the face of the teen in the photo, from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, because of his age. He had not been charged or identified.
The student was “flashing two knives around” as he moved through the classrooms and a first-floor hallway, said Thomas Seefeld, the Murrysville police chief. A principal tackled the stabber, he said. The security guard suffered a stomach wound.
The attack happened at Franklin Regional High School, in the suburb of Murrysville, just after doors opened for the day. A student described panic in the halls.
“I was walking into the school and a stampede of people were running after me,” said the student, Kari Lee, who said several of her friends had been knifed. “They were screaming, ‘Go to your cars! Go to your cars! Someone is stabbing people!’”
A doctor at one hospital, UPMC Presbyterian, said the attack appeared to have been carried out with a long knife.
A 17-year-old boy was on life support at that hospital after the knife pierced his liver, his diaphragm and several major blood vessels. It missed his heart by millimeters, a doctor told reporters.
The boy was on life support Wednesday afternoon and will need blood transfusions and additional surgery, but doctors said they were optimistic that he would survive.
In all, 21 people were taken to the hospital, at least four critically. The 21 injured included the 19 students, the security guard and a second adult who had what hospital officials described as a “medical condition” during the attack.
Seven teenagers and an adult were taken to Forbes Regional Hospital, Dr. Chris Kauffman, the trauma director there, told NBC News. The seven were stabbed in the chest, back and abdomen, he said. He characterized some of the injuries as life-threatening but said everyone was expected to live.
At least three students were in surgery. Others were undergoing CT scans and X-rays and could require surgery later, Kauffman said.
“None of these are superficial wounds,” he told reporters. “These are all significant stabbing wounds, every one.”
One girl may have saved the life of one of the stabbed by applying pressure to his wounds, hospital officials said. The girl was not hurt.
“She displayed an amazing amount of composure to help that friend, who was having significant bleeding,” said Dr. Mark Rubino, a surgeon at Forbes hospital.
Stevens told WPXI, the NBC affiliate in Pittsburgh, that the first call for help from the school came at 7:13 a.m. The situation was under control by 7:30 to 7:40, he said.
Someone pulled a fire alarm in the chaos. A school principal was “the lead” to taking the suspect into custody, the police chief said, before the security guard applied handcuffs.
Ambulances swarmed the parking lot of the high school, and nearby streets were sealed off.
The school district said that high school students and middle school students nearby were “secure,” and that elementary school had been canceled for the day. Parents were asked to report to an elementary school to pick up their children.
Students who drove to school were not allowed to drive home without a parent, according to the district.
The high school has about 1,200 students. Murrysville, about 20 miles east of Pittsburgh, is a city of 21,000. Renatta Signorini, a reporter for the Tribune-Review, told MSNBC that it is a city with low crime.
She said that the schools there do not have metal detectors but have been updating their security procedures. The police chief declined to comment on the school security measures.
The attack came exactly one year after a college student in Texas brandishing a utility knife ran through two floors of a campus building, injuring 14 people.
Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett said that he was shocked and saddened. He said he had directed the state police to help and would make other state resources available.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 9, 2014)

This rash of mass-knife attacks in the U.S. is new, but something that has plagued China for many years now.

For some reason, the public schools in China seem to be a magnet for the a-holes that feel a need to inflict harm on completely innocent people and as a result, there have been fatalities in alarming numbers.

This world is just one huge messed up cesspool...


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## mikewint (Apr 9, 2014)

And you all wonder why I carry. Todays story:
KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Missouri authorities are asking for federal helping in catching a serial shooter.

They're trying to find out who's behind more than a dozen sniper-like attacks on drivers on Kansas City freeways over the past month.

Three drivers have been wounded by gunfire as they drove along area highways, many in an area called the Three Trails Crossing, where three interstate highways intersect.

Ten of the 13 shootings happened in Kansas City, including Sunday evening when a 56-year-old man was eastbound on Interstate 435 near I-470 when he was shot in the left calf.

"I was freaking out, making sure he called 911." 

For the wife and daughter of the Blue Springs, Missouri man, a disturbing phone call from him sunday night has left them feeling everything frightened and frustrated, even fortunate.

"Very, very fortunate that his injury was a bullet to his calf because it could have been so much worse." 

The man, who does not want to be identified, is the most recent victim in a series of shootings.

Police confirmed at least some of the 13 recent incidents are related.

The other three shootings were in Leawood, Blue Springs and Lee's Summit.

Police Chief Darryl Forté met with FBI officials on Monday and has asked the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to assist.

So far three 3 people have been shot including that Blue Springs man, who was eastbound on 435 near 470 when three bullets struck his car. 

One went through the drivers side door and went straight through his calf.

"We just don't know if they're doing it until they finally kill someone or is it just for fun. We just want to know why." .

Authorities want those questions answered too and are working with the fbi and atf. 

The victim said he didn't see any cars around and sources have confirmed police believe it's possible the shooter it shooters were on foot, hiding in wait. 

"I work in the operating room fixing people up that this happens to."

"I've done it for 30 years and if people only realized that it's someone's loved one, somebody's brother, somebody's father, somebody's mother, whoever it is, on a table that you're trying to fix from them doing something so senseless."

Authorities are offering up to a seven-thousand-dollar reward for information leading to an arrest in the shootings.


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## pbehn (Apr 9, 2014)

GrauGeist said:


> This rash of mass-knife attacks in the U.S. is new, but something that has plagued China for many years now.
> 
> For some reason, the public schools in China seem to be a magnet for the a-holes that feel a need to inflict harm on completely innocent people and as a result, there have been fatalities in alarming numbers.
> 
> This world is just one huge messed up cesspool...



That happened far too many times when I was in China, completely outwith my experience of Chinese people as are the School attacks in USA. Why is it always school kids? We had it in UK in Dunblane, it makes no sense. If you want to attack a place with a knife try the SAS headquarters in hereford. Actually someone did that, pulled a knife on Paddy Ashdown UK political leader but ex SBS (maritime equal to SAS)

A MAN who attacked Liberal Democrat leader Paddy Ashdown with a flick-knife was jailed for a year yesterday. 

Bearded Christopher Mason was sentenced at Taunton Crown Court after unexpectedly changing his plea to admit charges of affray and using or threatening unlawful violence. 

Martin Meek, prosecuting, said the assault happened when Mr Ashdown, MP for Yeovil, Somerset, was investigating reports of racist incidents in the town centre with local vicar the Rev Mark Ellis. 

Mason, 51, was drunk when he approached the two men. 

Knife 

He tried to knee Mr Ashdown in the groin before lashing out with a flick-knife with a four-inch blade. 

But Mr Ashdown, a former marine, parried the blow and fought him off.


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## Alex . (Apr 13, 2014)

Annnnd again...

BBC News - Three dead in Kansas City shootings


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 13, 2014)

This has nothing to do with the Fort Hood incident. If you want to start a debate about another countries gun laws, don't do it in this thread...


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## GrauGeist (Apr 13, 2014)

Alex . said:


> Annnnd again...


The point of this thread is about the shooting on a military base.

And as it's been mentioned, when people want to put harm on others, they'll use whatever means they have at their disposal: Knife crime | UK news | The Guardian

Removing one means or another will not solve the problem, the reason *why they want to commit harm on others* needs to be looked at and fixed. Take way firearms and they use knives, take away knives and they'll use hammers and so on and so on. And then what, ban all sharp-pointy sticks?

Fix the source of the problem, otherwise you're putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound.


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 13, 2014)

subkraft said:


> ....because it is his inalienable right as an American.



Last I checked, it was no-ones right to kill anyone with a gun. Or a knife, or a rock,... paper, or scissors.
Wrong is wrong, my friend.
Do not try to place the blame on the tool used. Human nature is to blame. Pride, jealousy, lust; these are the things that cause problems. 
Religion is another. To want to kill someone because they do not believe in your god, to me, is madness.
I sit on the sidelines and wonder if it is all worth it.
Not to say that I have been blameless in all of this,... far from it.
I will own my stupidity in the past;... Crass jokes, intolerance, unforgivable moments of lack of thought, where I caused another pain.
I claim these.
But just because others use an excuse for violence based on their belief, I call bullsh$t.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 13, 2014)

When I was a kid, I recall being taught that violence was always to be used as a last resort _against violence_.

And if it came down to that, fight clean and fight fair. (no weapons, no neck stomping when they're down, etc.)

We used to have a class bully, he's go around and make our lives miserable. No one went and killed themselves or got all weird and shot the school up because of the bully, what we did was ganged up and beat the s**t out of him after school one afternoon. That ended that problem.

Things aren't the same today. Not in the U.S., not in Europe and not even in Asia...things are just plain weird all over the place.

This recent shooting incident at Fort Hood was apparently a PTS problem unlike the previous incident. Why the guy would turn on his own is beyond my comprehension. However, this isn't the first time it's happened with a military person. A former U.S. Marine went off and killed his Mother and Wife, then situated himself in the bell tower of the University of Texas and killed 14 more people back in '66.


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## Alex . (Apr 14, 2014)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> This has nothing to do with the Fort Hood incident. If you want to start a debate about another countries gun laws, don't do it in this thread...



I was merely pointing out another instance, nothing more. I have no interest in debating your gun law.

I had no idea it was out of order to post a related article; if it is to do with solely Fort Hood then half the posts in this thread are nothing to do with it either.

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## mikewint (Apr 14, 2014)

My news post were also off target. My point was that violence is all over the country involving all aspects of life, schools, shopping malls, theaters, political rallies, etc. They involve whatever weapons come to hand. As Dave stated, guns, knives, hammers, etc. They happen in crowds because that is where a lot of people are packed together and panic can spread. What role PTSD played is questionable as is whether or not he even had PTSD. He had not been in combat and everyone is under stress.
I don't have a solution. Don't think there actually is one.


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## tyrodtom (Apr 14, 2014)

My understanding that he had never been shot at, but he was in truck convoys in locations where there had previously been attacks.

Just worrying about being in combat, even if it never happens, is still going to be stressful for most people.


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## buffnut453 (Apr 14, 2014)

Mike,

I agree...there probably isn't a solution. There are "bad people" out there but they are a relatively small proportion of the population. All too often, we find "normal" people involved in committing these crimes and it's tough to align on a single reason for it. Why would an ex-cop shoot a father in a cinema in an argument over texting? I mean, really, on the grand scale of things it was a trivial excuse for an argument...and yet now some kid (or kids) are without their dad. The perpetrator wasn't a "bad person" but he did have access to a weapon and used it inappropriately.

I do wonder if the availability of weapons increases the likelihood of their use. Kind of like rugby union -vs- American football - the tackles in the latter are far more kinetic because the players have (perhaps overdeveloped) confidence in their invulnerability due to their protective pads and helmet. Do people (particularly those with greater amounts of testosterone) who carry a weapon feel somehow invulnerable and hence more likely to start an argument? Take the example of the shooting in Florida when Michael Dunn shot a young black kid in a convenience store car park. Again, the argument was over something trivial - music volume. Why didn't Mr Dunn simply find another parking spot or wait patiently until his fiancee finished buying whatever she was buying and then drive off? He clearly didn't intend to kill anyone that night (he was returning from a wedding) but it still happened and for no real reason.

Returning to the Fort Hood incident, again we have an argument getting out of control and someone with access to a weapon wreaking havoc. The key difference between a gun and a knife (or some other "weapon of opportunity") is that a gun can kill at range - there's no need to get up close and personal. Are feelings of invulnerability proportional to the weapon used?

I still have lots of questions - my concern is that society may not be asking the right questions. The assumption that crimes are only completed by "bad people" is patently nonsense. The more I hear of this awful deaths, the more I wonder about the impact of any weapon on the psyche of a person when tempers are raised, and on the impact of weapon type on feelings of invulnerability. As for the small proportion of "bad people", they will always be present in society but there are shades of grey even there - is someone truly "evil" or simply suffering from mental illness? If the latter, how on earth do you prevent them from committing a crime with a weapon? Preventing access is simply impossible - it would be like trying to predict precisely when someone will catch a particular disease.

No easy answers, unfortunately...

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## GrauGeist (Apr 14, 2014)

My take on all of this, and I am far from being a qualified expert, is that society has shifted from personal responsability to one of social responsability.

The new age philosophy of "everyone is a winner" doesn't instill a sense of failure and recovery. In otherwords, the frustration of failure and the will to overcome is something people are not learning. An example: when we were kids and lost a game, the Coach would yell at us and tell us that second place was the first loser. If a Coach did that today, parents would rush in, take their children away and sue the Coach, school, school board and so on. When a child falls down and scuff their knee, the parents don't tell them to get up and deal with it, they rush the child away from the playground and call their attorney...the rest you can probably guess.

So in this world of instant gratification, people are ill-equipped to deal with setbacks, stress and failure.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 14, 2014)

Alex . said:


> I was merely pointing out another instance, nothing more. I have no interest in debating your gun law.
> 
> I had no idea it was out of order to post a related article; if it is to do with solely Fort Hood then half the posts in this thread are nothing to do with it either.



You are right. I jumped the gun. No pun intended...

I just don't want this thread going the way of every other gun thread in this forum. Non Americans telling Americans how to control their guns and gun rights in their own country.


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## mikewint (Apr 14, 2014)

My Dad blamed Comic Books and Rock and Roll music. 
I see video games that are horribly violent and gory and detached from consequences. So called "music" filled with filth and more violence. TV shows easily accessible to all ages filled with violence, gore, and graphic sexual scenes. (Chicage PD e.g. had the Head of their "Intelligence Squad" shoving a suspects hand into a running garbage disposal to make him talk).
We have certainly become a very permissive society where all must always "Feel Good" about themselves. I see it almost every day in the school system. Get a Failing grade...It's the teacher's fault for not teaching to your Differentiated Intelligence Type. Stressed over homework...Homework is not permitted. all work done in school. In a second year German class I said: "Entschuldigen Sie mich hast du nicht die Glocken lauten horen?" got blank stares "Bitte beanworten Sie laut wenn Sie ihren Namen horen" more blank stares. She never speaks to us in German I was told. A Seventh grader had an entire bus of kids terrorized. He told them he had a gun in his backpack and was going to shoot them all in the heads...A stern talking to (Now Johney, you know it's not nice to shoot your classmates in the head) and back on the bus the next day.
I am at a loss


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## Alex . (Apr 14, 2014)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> You are right. I jumped the gun. No pun intended...
> 
> I just don't want this thread going the way of every other gun thread in this forum. Non Americans telling Americans how to control their guns and gun rights in their own country.



 I am not a certain Piers Morgan! (Absolute pillock)


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## buffnut453 (Apr 14, 2014)

Hey Alex, why are you being so nice to Piers Morgan? He deserves to be called much worse than that!

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## meatloaf109 (Apr 14, 2014)

mikewint said:


> My Dad blamed Comic Books and Rock and Roll music.
> I see video games that are horribly violent and gory and detached from consequences. So called "music" filled with filth and more violence. TV shows easily accessible to all ages filled with violence, gore, and graphic sexual scenes. (Chicage PD e.g. had the Head of their "Intelligence Squad" shoving a suspects hand into a running garbage disposal to make him talk).
> We have certainly become a very permissive society where all must always "Feel Good" about themselves. I see it almost every day in the school system. Get a Failing grade...It's the teacher's fault for not teaching to your Differentiated Intelligence Type. Stressed over homework...Homework is not permitted. all work done in school. In a second year German class I said: "Entschuldigen Sie mich hast du nicht die Glocken lauten horen?" got blank stares "Bitte beanworten Sie laut wenn Sie ihren Namen horen" more blank stares. She never speaks to us in German I was told. A Seventh grader had an entire bus of kids terrorized. He told them he had a gun in his backpack and was going to shoot them all in the heads...A stern talking to (Now Johney, you know it's not nice to shoot your classmates in the head) and back on the bus the next day.
> I am at a loss



I blame the guy that invented the washing machine.
Stay with me.
There was a time when the basic needs of existence took up so much time that nobody had time for any such nonsense. The idea of "teen age" was silly. Everyone worked to just survive.
The advance of technology has created a self-centered mind set that is obvious to anyone at a mall. Children taking "selfies". Heads down, texting every minute of their self absorbed lives.
This is a "Me" thing. Everything revolves around "me". 
I, and my friends, are the most important things around.
Now take this to a religion level. We have a self absorbed self-pitying malcontent with delusions. 
Bang. There it is.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 14, 2014)

Well, I think technology is the new religion...honestly. It would fall along the lines of the washing machine analogy.

Instant gratification, driving cars they know nothing about (except where the gas goes and where the XM radio/iPod port is), a new phone every 6 months, plasma this, LCD that...home theater, game consoles and the "interwebz"...

And like spoiled, "entitled" children, when things don't go their way, they become vicious, spiteful a-holes.

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## Torch (Apr 15, 2014)

That just about sums it up..........


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## Alex . (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm glad the older generation has so much faith in us youth!


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## mikewint (Apr 15, 2014)

We have too, after all you decide what Nursing Home to put us in

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## buffnut453 (Apr 15, 2014)

Alex . said:


> I'm glad the older generation has so much faith in us youth!



Problem is this issue isn't confined to "the youth" (whoever they are). Neither incident that I cited (the ex-cop shooting a guy for texting in the cinema nor the one in the convenience store parking lot) involved a youth with a weapon, indeed in the latter case it was the youth who was on the receiving end.


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## GrauGeist (Apr 15, 2014)

Alex . said:


> I'm glad the older generation has so much faith in us youth!


There will be exceptions to the rule and of course present company excluded.


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## Torch (Apr 16, 2014)

LoL but the youth came from our loins..........Maybe it is our fault


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## tyrodtom (Apr 16, 2014)

My Dad was of the WW2 generation, what a lot of people now call the "Greatest Generation".

But he died long before that they got hung with that label. But I can remember him saying when he was young, the older generations was describing them as the sorriest that had ever been born.


It's always been that way, and probably always will be.


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## subkraft (Apr 23, 2014)

I'd suggest that there's a lot of this stuff is about how and what 'respect' has come to mean today.

Maybe earlier it was something to be earned, it was awarded to you by others for your achievements, contributions etc.

Today it seems to be something that is demanded as a right.

Combine that with an economic situation where a lot of people are denied being able to achieve self respect through participation in society...

The demand for 'respect' can be instantly enforced by the use of violence, guns, knives, whatever.


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## meatloaf109 (Apr 29, 2014)

meatloaf109 said:


> I blame the guy that invented the washing machine.
> Stay with me.
> There was a time when the basic needs of existence took up so much time that nobody had time for any such nonsense. The idea of "teen age" was silly. Everyone worked to just survive.
> The advance of technology has created a self-centered mind set that is obvious to anyone at a mall. Children taking "selfies". Heads down, texting every minute of their self absorbed lives.
> ...



I stand by my earlier comments. 
Selfish desires and a disconnected sense of community, (by way of electronic contact), will result in this kind of mayhem.


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