# GB nominations for builds after GB 39



## parsifal (Feb 1, 2018)

Hi Everyone

We have yet to decide on GBs after the final build in the current series (GB-39). The purpose of this thread is to allow a list of nominations to be prepared and submitted to the GB organisers for their consideration.

I want to arrange this informal survey as follows: List your top 5 nominations ranked 1 to 5. I will award 5 points for the top nomination, 4 points for the second nomination and so on. We will end up with a list of priorities which I will put together after 1 month of the survey. The survey will complete on the 2 March 2018

I intend to produce a series of split builds, in which the top ranked build is mated to the least ranked build and the 2nd ranked nomination with the 2ns lowest ranking and so on. That way we should decrease the likelihood of boring builds without losing the variety.

So rank your favourite nominations 1 to 5. You can repeat or adopt what others suggest, in fact that’s probably a smart move actually. You can nominate additional topics if you like, and I will pass those suggestions on, but I wont be scring them.

Im not a decision maker about this, so I don’t know what will happen to this data, but I do think it might be useful not too far from now. 


Cheers and best of luck

Michael


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## parsifal (Feb 1, 2018)

My nominations are:

1) Carrier Aircraft 1946-82
2) Carrier Aircraft 1939-45
3) Between the wars (1919-39)
4) WWI
5) Seaplanes/Floatplanes from any era


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## Crimea_River (Feb 1, 2018)

Wow, only 1 dedicated WW2 theme. We'll need to see about that.

1) WW2 DDay and after - air warfare in the west
2) WW2 Heavy Hitters (bomber aircraft - not fighters with bombs)
3) WW2 Eastern Front
4) WW2 Night Fighters
5) WW2 North of 60 - air war in the arctic regions.

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## parsifal (Feb 1, 2018)

knew you would be happy Andy.


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## fubar57 (Feb 1, 2018)

As I mentioned somewhere, I missed the first 11 or so GBs so it would't hurt my feelings to have a do-over with those. Probably 90% of my stash is leaning towards "captured" WWII aircraft and oddball schemes. Offhand I have 2 helos, one may or may not be built during the current GB, 1 post war carrier A-7 but I'm struggling to find decent U.S.S. Constellation decals, 3 Hellcats but they will be done as drones. 1/48 is not kind to in-between wars and no WWI or water aircraft. I've got something for all of Andy's though 3 and 5 might require new decals. Would the Dragon Ta 154 Mistel classify as a heavy hitter?

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## parsifal (Feb 1, 2018)

Have you got 5 nominations you can make Geo?


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## fubar57 (Feb 1, 2018)

These are mine, in order of preference...

1)Aces-This could be done in 2 GBs - Axis as one; Allies in another
B)MTO
3rd)PACIFIC
☭ )EASTERN FRONT
♫)HEAVY HITTERS

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## Crimea_River (Feb 1, 2018)

Mistel would definitely be a heavy hitter.


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## fubar57 (Feb 1, 2018)

Unfortunately it comes with a delightful Dragon 190


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## Crimea_River (Feb 1, 2018)

Piece of cake.....


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## parsifal (Feb 2, 2018)

Love your numbering system Geo.....bet you got the 'naughty corner" a lot as a kid.......


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## parsifal (Feb 2, 2018)

The running sheet after just three submissions is 

5 points: Carrier Aircraft 1946-82, Aces, WW2 DDay and after - air warfare in the west, Heavy Hitters, Eastern Front,
4 points: Carrier Aircraft 1939-45, MTO,
3 points: Between the wars (1919-39), PTO
2 points WWI, Night Fighters
1 point Seaplanes/Floatplanes from any era, WW2 North of 60 - air war in the arctic regions.


If the poll was to end now, the next round of GBs would be 

GB40 Carrier Aircraft 1946-82 / WW2 North of 60 - air war in the arctic regions.

GB41 WW2 DDay and after - air warfare in the west/ Seaplanes/Floatplanes from any era

GB42 Heavy Hitters / Night Fighters

GB43 Eastern Front / PTO

GB44 Carrier Aircraft 1939-45 / Between the wars (1919-39)

Not sure what to think....it is what it is I guess.


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## Airframes (Feb 2, 2018)

I'll have to have a think about this one - which can be hard work, as my brain hurts easily !
I'd definitely go with Heavy Hitters, D-Day and after, and probably MTO.
So for now, I'll say :-

1) Heavy Hitters.
2) D-Day and after.
3) MTO
4) an outsider - Aircraft from the movies !!
5) Korean War.

This might change though !

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## parsifal (Feb 2, 2018)

The running sheet after Terry's submission is is 

10 points Heavy Hitters
9 points WW2 D-Day and after - (air warfare in the west ....are you okay with that terry?)
7 points MTO
5 points: Carrier Aircraft 1946-82, Aces, , Eastern Front,
4 points: Carrier Aircraft 1939-45,
3 points: Between the wars (1919-39), PTO
2 points WWI, Night Fighters
1 point Seaplanes/Floatplanes from any era, WW2 North of 60 - air war in the arctic regions. Aircraft from the movies, Korean war


If the poll was to end now, the next round of GBs would be 

GB40 Heavy Hitter / Korean war.

GB41 WW2 D-Day and after - air warfare in the west / WW2 North of 60 - air war in the arctic regions.

GB42 MTO / Seaplanes/Floatplanes from any era

GB43 Eastern Front / Night Fighters

GB44 Carrier Aircraft 1946-82 / WWI

GB45 Aces / PTO

GB 46 Eastern Front / Carrier Aircraft 1939-45

GB47 Between the wars (1919-39)


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## Crimea_River (Feb 2, 2018)

Doing a good job Michael. More input still needed from some regulars though. I think the key is to get the ideas flowing. How we split up the GB's could still be debated but I'm not too averse to the way it's shaking out at the moment. However, I think that a split GB should always have at least one WW2 theme as I think the non-WW2 themes often get low participation.


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## parsifal (Feb 2, 2018)

There has to be more interst than this, surely


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## fubar57 (Feb 2, 2018)

We are a shrinking community. Not sure what could be done to increase participation. I'm here to learn and improve: the contest part is just a side note for me


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## Crimea_River (Feb 2, 2018)

It' s only been a day. Let's not panic.


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## parsifal (Feb 2, 2018)

Andy is right, more will come.....


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## Airframes (Feb 3, 2018)

Yep, our 'regulars' don't always have much time during weekdays, and this thread is not in a very prominent position either. But now it's weekend, perhaps more comments will follow.
And don't call me Shirley ..................


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## parsifal (Feb 3, 2018)

where should this thread be do you think? Maybe I can ask Wurger to move it?


If I cant call you Shirley would Brenda be more to your liking?


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## Airframes (Feb 3, 2018)

No - I'm not a redhead !

Maybe start a new thread in the general area of the Group Build section, similar to the ones Vic posted a few years ago ?


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## Crimea_River (Feb 3, 2018)

I think we should just leave this one as we'll otherwise have two going.


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## Airframes (Feb 4, 2018)

Fair comment - unless there's a convenient way that Wojtek could perhaps move it ?


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## Wurger (Feb 4, 2018)

Do you want me to move the thread? What the destination forum are you going to get? Just let me know.


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## parsifal (Feb 4, 2018)

Can it moved as terry suggested wotjek?


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## Wurger (Feb 4, 2018)

The general folder of the GB section then, OK. 

Processing .... 

Done...


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## parsifal (Feb 4, 2018)

thankyou sir. hopefully we will get more replies now.


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## T Bolt (Feb 4, 2018)

Sorry I'm late, just saw this thread. 
My choices are:
1-Battle of Britain
2-Heavy Hitters
3-MTO/North Africa
4-Pacific Theatre of Operations
5-The Cold War
6-Between the Wars
7-Eastern Front
8-Commonwealth
9-Night Fighters

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## parsifal (Feb 4, 2018)

thanks Glenn. The way ive structured the "poll", I can only include the top 5 responses. however I will keep a list of "other mentions" for tie breaking purposes.

The running sheet after your submission is






Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars, Eastern Front, Commonwealth, Night Fighters​
If the poll was to end now, the next round of GBs would be

WW2 Heavy Hitters (bomber a/c, no fighters)(14) / The Cold War (1) (Total 15)
MTO (10)/ Korean War (1) (Total 11)
WW2 D-Day and after - air warfare in the west (9) / WW2 Nth of 60 - arctic regions (1) (Total 10)
PTO (5) / Seaplanes/Floatplanes from any era (1) (Total 6)
Eastern front (5) / A/C from the movies (2) (Total 7)
Carrier Aircraft 1946-82 (5) / WW2 Night Fighters (2) (Total 7)
Aces (5) / WWI (2) (Total 7)
Battle of Britain (5) / Between the wars (1919-39) (3) (Total 8)
Carrier Aircraft 1939-45 (4) / (Total ???)

Positioning is on the basis of the top score, then married to the bottom score. There are some really wobbly bits in the middle at the moment due to the small sample size. we have too many entries on the same score.....


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## Crimea_River (Feb 4, 2018)

Really need to think about whether or not to split a GB with a subject that only one person voted for. I know it's early but if we end up that way I would really have to wonder if that makes sense.


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## parsifal (Feb 4, 2018)

We should wait until we get a more clear picture on the number of different nominations that we get. If we get only 16 nominations, that will only equate to 8 GBs. if 6 of them are 1 pointers and we delete all the 1 point entries, then we will get something like 5 GBs, or a little over a years worth. remember also that the low order GBs are paired with high value GBs, so I'm hoping we get a good mix of the popular to the unusual. Most people will go for the popular, and that's fine, but someone, like Terrys "Aircraft of the Movies" might be the trick that floats someone's boat.

but we need to wait and see if the sample size reaches a decent size. I'm looking for at least 8 primary builds to cover two years.

One thing we could do, with peoples permission is split a very popular primary build, so that it occurs more than once in the build series . "Heavy Hitters" at the moment would fit this. To retain its number 1 spot on the rankings it only needs 11 of its 14 points. If we allowed that winning build nomination to be split, the second entry would have 3 votes. That would either give another primary build nomination at 3 votes or a very high secondary build nomination. Either way, the very popular nominations gets to be included twice on the list, with no superfluous votes for that nomination. 

The other end of the spectrum are these very low scorers, the 1 pointers. if we get a better nomination turnout, it is entirely possible that at the lower end of the table we could combine more than one GB subject for a 3 nomination alternative, or more, depending on the total points that overall GB grouping has had assigned to it. 

There are lots of ways to manipulate this dataset without altering the basic results of the poll, or getting rid of stuff.


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## JKim (Feb 5, 2018)

I think it's cleaner if the theme is singular. The only reason we would need a split GB is if the main theme is not popular. My recommendations for the GB topics:

1. Pacific Theater of WW2
2. Heavy Hitters of WW2
3. Aircraft of the Aces of WW2
4. Prelude (Spanish Civil War/Sino Japanese Conflict)
5. Night Fighters of WW2
6. Jet Fighters of WW2
7. D-Day
8. Mediterranean/North Africa
9. Eastern Front
10. Battle of Britain


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## parsifal (Feb 5, 2018)

Thanks john. After john's entry the poll is running at 

WW2 Heavy Hitters (bomber a/c, no fighters)(18) / The Cold War (1) (Total 15)
MTO (10)/ Korean War (1) (Total 11)
PTO (10) / Seaplanes/Floatplanes from any era (1) (Total 11)
WW2 D-Day and after - air warfare in the west (9) / WW2 Nth of 60 - arctic regions (1) (Total 10)
Aces (8) / Spanish Civil War (2) (Total 10)
Eastern Front(5) / A/C from the movies (2) (Total 7)
BoB (5) / WWI (2) (Total 7)
Carrier A/C 46-82 (5) / Between the wars (1919-39) (3) (Total 8)
Carrier A/C 39-45 (4) / Night Fighters (3) (Total 7)

Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars, Eastern Front (2), Commonwealth, Night Fighters, Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB

have a possible two year program now.


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## mikewint (Feb 5, 2018)

As a first, I'll be a good and responsible member (well strike "good") and cast a ballot. I vote with the poor guy still stuck in Ill-noise, Glenn


T Bolt said:


> 1-Battle of Britain
> 2-Heavy Hitters
> 3-MTO/North Africa
> 4-Pacific Theatre of Operations
> ...

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## parsifal (Feb 5, 2018)

With mikes nominations added, the poll changes to the following;


Heavy Hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (22) / Korean War (1) (Total 23)
MTO (13) / WW2 Nth of 60 (1) (Total 14)
PTO (12) / Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1) (Total 13)
WW2 D-day and after war in the west(9) / Spanish Civil War (2) (Total 11)
Aces (8) / Cold War (2) (Total 10)
WW2 Eastern Front (5) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 7)
BoB (5) / WWI (2) (Total 7)
Carrier a/c 46-82 (5) / WW2 Night Fighters (3) (Total 8)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (4) / Between the wars (3) (Total 7)

Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB

Heavy hitters should definitely be split to create two GBs for that nomination. as its secondary running mate I think we should select the "Tie Breaker" that has received the most nominations and not already on the list (at the moment, commonwealth). On that basis HH GB would appear at the 1st and 5th GB entries. And we would have a total of 10 GBs


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## le_steph40 (Feb 5, 2018)

Hello,
I'm in late... So, thank you Michael for your message 
Here are my choices:
1- Aircraft of WW2 Aces (but maybe we can to have several categories or choices => Allied Aces, Axis Aces, Pacific Front Aces, MTO Aces, European Front Aces, Eastern Front Aces, etc...)
2- WW2 Night Fighters
3- WW2 DDay and after - air warfare in the west (good choice Andy  )
4- Battle of Britain
5- Pacific war

Cheers 
Stéph


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## Crimea_River (Feb 5, 2018)

Battle of France is actually the subject of GB 39. Maybe a different choice Steph?


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## le_steph40 (Feb 5, 2018)

Crimea_River said:


> Battle of France is actually the subject of GB 39. Maybe a different choice Steph?



Oups... Sorry  => Corrected (Pacific war)


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## parsifal (Feb 5, 2018)

Thanks steph


After stephs nominations are included, the poll changes to the following:


Heavy Hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (22) / Korean War (1) (Total 23)
Aces (13) / WW2 Nth of 60 (1) (Total 14)
MTO (13) / Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1) (Total 14)
PTO (12) / Battle Of France (1) (Total 13)
WW2 D-day and after war in the west (12) / Spanish Civil War (2) (Total 14)
WW2 Night Fighters (7) / Cold War (2) (Total 9)
BoB (7) / WWI (2) (Total 9)
Carrier a/c 46-82 (5) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 7)
WW2 Eastern Front (5) / Between the wars (3) (total 8)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (4) / ???????

Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces,


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## parsifal (Feb 5, 2018)

With Stephs reconsideration the poll changes to the following

Heavy Hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (22) / Korean War (1) (Total 23)
Aces (13) / WW2 Nth of 60 (1) (Total 14)
MTO (13) / Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1) (Total 14)
PTO (13) / Spanish Civil War (2) (Total 15)
WW2 D-day and after war in the west (12) / Cold War (2) (Total 14)
WW2 Night Fighters (7) / WWI (2) (Total 9)
BoB (7) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 9)
Carrier a/c 46-82 (5) / Between the wars (3) (Total 8)
WW2 Eastern Front (5) / Carrier a/c 39-45 (4) (total 9)

Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces,


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## Vic Balshaw (Feb 5, 2018)

Hi guys,

I know, it been a long time for me to be off line, this modelers block can be so irritating and has no rhyme or reason for striking, but it does. However, I have been sitting on the peripheral and keeping my eye on you chaps and been keeping in with your finished builds, not to mention still doing a spot of my own modelling as and when the mood strikes and whenever that was, I was trying to catch up on some of the GB's I missed. Thank you also to Michael for taking up the reins of organizing the next GB list, one wonders if it will go out another five years like this last one which I for one never expected.

I was also reading the dilemma post in GB35 about GB participation or lack off, and it got me wondering if there could be a better way of approaching the next group builds listing. I appreciate that you have already got a short list of sorts Michael, but my thoughts went to the possibility of opening and simplifying each build theme, giving it a wider scope and setting on a sort of repetitive theme over a number of builds and mainly focused around WWII. Ideas such as:

1 Allied aircraft of WWII.
2 Axis aircraft of WWII.
3 WWII Lend Lease aircraft in Allies operation.
4 WWII aircraft of the Axis allies.
5 WWII aircraft in pre or post war operations.
6 Free and Easy Build, must be military and have flown.

With GB having such a wide scope as this, everybody who wants to get involved will have a lot to choose from. They have the whole of the six-year conflict and in whatever theatre they choose, single or multi engine aircraft, land or floating. The only criteria we would need to be established is that the build has to be a subject from history and fully authenticated not only in its introduction summery but in the presentation of the finished build. The reason for the 6th "Free and Easy Build" is so that those who want to branch out from time to time, have the opportunity to do so, but for the more ardent Spitfire, Beaufort, Bf-109 or Fw-190 builders, you can still play to your hearts content.

Also, with this form of listing, it could be use as a base for specific builds and if desired, refined for example:

1 Allied aircraft of WWII – Battle of Britain.
2 Axis aircraft of WWII – Eastern Front
3 WWII Lend Lease aircraft in Allies operation – Italian Campaign.
4 WWII aircraft of the Axis allies – Pacific War.

One more thing, I don't feel there is a need to worry to much over the repetition of builds as most of you guys out there are keen fans of the WWII period, so if you have Allied or Axis builds almost running back to back, what the heck, your still building good models and having fun.

Okay folks, I've said my piece and look forward to the shouts and screams and what f*** this all about comments. Go to your hearts content and have fun.


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## parsifal (Feb 5, 2018)

It would be great if you came back as a regular vic. We miss you mate.

what do people think of vics suggestion? My $0.02 worth is that there are arguments in favour and against a more general themed structure, but I think this general approach overall is actually more narrow in choice of subjects. Its the tyranny of the majority. We absolutely need our staples and that's what most people will always select. However I also believe there are people out there that want a specialized or unique subject choice. I believe that if we restrict it to the "mainstream" only, so to speak, we face an ever decreasing participation as people wander off to do their own thing so to speak. I believe this method of nomination I am using retains our roots whilst also opening the build choices to other areas that are perhaps less often travelled, for those who are into that sought of thing.

Interested to hear how people are feeling about this.


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## fubar57 (Feb 6, 2018)

Welcome back Vic. As Michael said, your input and knowledge are greatly missed. I understand what you are going through with the modelling blockage: I'm in a small one right now though its mostly self inflicted. Probably 95% of my stash is WWII and that's where I feel the most comfortable. I have a hard enough time figuring the differences between a Mk.II and a Mk.V Spitfire without having to learn the different communication arrays between an F-16A and F-16C


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## Wayne Little (Feb 6, 2018)

A bit late coming to the Party..... but my choices would be....

1. Aircraft of the Aces which could be separated to Allied and Axis maybe ?
2. Favourite WW2 Aircraft Got a good response first time around....
3. Pacific Theatre
4. Eastern Front
5. Night Fighters

I could make this list much longer....


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## parsifal (Feb 6, 2018)

With Wayne's nominations included, the poll now looks as follows;

Heavy Hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (22) / Korean War (1) (Total 23)
Aces (18) / WW2 Nth of 60 (1) (Total 19)
PTO (16) / Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1) (Total 17)
MTO (13) / Spanish Civil War (2) (Total 15)
WW2 D-day and after war in the west (12) / Cold War (2) (Total 14)
BoB (12) / WWI (2) (Total 14)
WW2 Night Fighters (8) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 10)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Between the wars (3) (Total 10)
Carrier a/c 46-82 (5) / Favourite a/c of WWII (4)(total 9)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (4)/ **********


Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2),


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## JKim (Feb 6, 2018)

I propose that we drop the the dual themes for any WW2-based GB, since those will most likely have good participation.


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## Crimea_River (Feb 6, 2018)

Great to hear from you Vic! Don't be so rare as we miss you around here.

Regarding Vic's suggestion, I think that making the subjects more general would not be necessary. As you can see, we have some very popular specific subjects shaping up and, not surprisingly, many are repeats of popular subjects from before. I think that the issue that we ran into before was that there were too many subjects scheduled over too long a period and the least popular ones got pushed to the back end of the period. Couple that with a changing community and we will get these dry spells.

I think that we should continue with the current polling method of picking popular subjects and make the GB schedule no more than 2 years long, i.e. about 8 subjects, and refresh the poll after the 7th GB closes.

I'm also not keen on split builds.


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## T Bolt (Feb 6, 2018)

I think John has a good idea there. Drop the split builds from the WWII GBs and keep them for the builds outside the WWII era. Given a choice between a WWII subject and something else I will probably go with The WWII one, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to do something different for a change, and doing more than one entry in a GB lately had only contributed more partially finished kits laying around and I have more than enough of them.


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## T Bolt (Feb 6, 2018)

I know I've already put in my picks but it just dawned on me that we have never done anything to cover the China-Burma-India Theater of War. Maybe we could include that if only at part of a split build


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## parsifal (Feb 6, 2018)

If we drop the split builds from WWII principal build subjects, and limit the final cut to a two year program 98 builds) there will be no split builds, The final build schedule on that basis would be


Heavy Hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (22)
Aces (18) )
PTO (16)
MTO (13)
WW2 D-day and after war in the west (12)
BoB (12)
WW2 Night Fighters (8)
WW2 Eastern Front (7)

Given the popularity of the first two subjects, there is justification to drop the last two nominations and replace them with repeats of the first two. On that basis the build sheet would look something like this


Heavy Hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (22)
Aces (18)
PTO (16)
MTO (13)
WW2 D-day and after war in the west (12)
BoB (12)
Heavy Hitters II (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)
Aces II

A lot of votes will have been ignored and a LOT of alternative subjects dropped. There would be no split builds however.

Is that how people want to progress. If so, there aint much point in continuing with the nomination process, since there is zero chance of any of the other nominations getting into the final cut. Ther just are not enough people who have not yet nominated to change this mix very much.

Might be that I get to build a lot of ships over the next two years.......


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## JKim (Feb 6, 2018)

I'm not opposed to split themes if the topics are not popular. I think the topics that have polled over 10 votes each will be popular enough to stand alone. However, we could consider the last two slots as less popular and therefore possible split themes.

Something like this...

Heavy Hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (22)
Aces (18) )
PTO (16)
MTO (13)
WW2 D-day and after war in the west (12)
BoB (12)
WW2 Night Fighters (8)/Carrier AC 46-82 (5)
WW2 Eastern Front (7)/Favorite AC of WW2 (4)


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## parsifal (Feb 6, 2018)

Well that is better from my perspective. That would justify a continuation of the nominations, but only from the perspective that secondary builds and/or the last two primary builds, which have an outside chance of changing. the chances of that are pretty long.

I would love to hear the opinions of the GB doyens including Wotjek on this issue.


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## parsifal (Feb 6, 2018)

To try and understand the forces underpinning this debate, we need to understand some theory here. This is essentially a debate about "First past the Post Voting" versus "proportional representation voting" Iam advocating a proportional representation system, but that doesn't make the FPTP systems invalid, just different.

For a comparison of the two systems I would suggest the following links:

Advantages of PR systems —

Advantages and disadvantages of FPTP system —


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## Crimea_River (Feb 6, 2018)

parsifal said:


> .....Given the popularity of the first two subjects, there is justification to drop the last two nominations and replace them with repeats of the first two. ......



I don't agree with that.

I could live with John's suggestion. What do others think of a 2 year cycle?


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## Donivanp (Feb 6, 2018)

Well let me throw my two cents worth in,
1) Twins, any twin engined aircraft (no time req)
2) I like heavy hitters.
3) Jets 1940-1950 first gen jets.
4) I like Aces like Fubar.
5) and I like the carrier 46-86


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## Crimea_River (Feb 6, 2018)

Fubar is an Ace?


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## Donivanp (Feb 6, 2018)

Well Duhhh!


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## parsifal (Feb 6, 2018)

With Donivamps vote included, the nominations under a Preferential voting system (PVS) is as follows:
Heavy Hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (26) / Korean War (1) (Total 27)
Aces (20) / WW2 Nth of 60 (1) (Total 21)
MTO(13) / Cold War(2) (Total 15)
WW2 D-day and after war in the west (12) / Spanish Civil War (2) (Total 14)
BoB (12) / WWI (2) (Total 14)
WW2 Night Fighters (8) / First Gen Jets (1940-50) (3) (Total 11)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Between the wars (3) (Total 10)
Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) / Favourite a/c of WWII (4) (Total 10)
Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) / Carrier a/c 39-45 (4) (Total 8)


With a First past the post (FPTP) system Donnie needn't have voted. The shortlist would be

Heavy Hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (26)
Aces (20)
MTO(13)
WW2 D-day and after war in the west (12)
BoB (12)
WW2 Night Fighters (8)
WW2 Eastern Front (7)
Carrier a/c 46-82 (6)

((note we can add the fillers alternatives later)


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## parsifal (Feb 7, 2018)

I instituted this poll on the basis that our group are facing some serious problems in the longer term. These relate mostly to a falling participation rate. People are deserting the GB system. The question is why. The most pronounced issue that has arisen in the current round of GBs seems to me to be a lack of interest in the later less popular GBs, and conversely, a lack of variety in the subjects so as to attract "new blood" or entice "old hands" back as it were. These two demands appear to compete and conflict with each other.

The current poll reinforces that theory in spades.

We have a situation where the top nomination is polling 26 “votes” whilst the bottom selection is just 6 “votes”. You don’t need to be a Rhodes scholar to work out that by the time we get to the end of this two year cycle, our build program will have well and truly run out of puff.

It gets worse. Perhaps without realising it, the voting system we are now tending to advocate is a known suppressor of minorities….unless you run with the main stream, your interests will not be represented. Unless we accommodate those minorities I am firmly of the opinion that our group will continue to wander away to do other things. Your build choices might reflect what the majority want to do, but in case you haven’t noticed, that majority is shrinking with virtually every build. In my opinion we have to come up with a system that appeals to those fringe dwellers where I am hoping potential participants are lurking. If Im wrong we die anyway, if Im right we might be able to reinvigorate the competition. I frankly don’t see the problem with a split build system. Those of you who only want to build the same old same old can happily keep doing that. I will be doing that on some builds. If Im right and there are peripheral fringe dwellers out there we might attract them with a greater amount of choice.

The only other way I can see is to have a much more generic list of titles, much as Vic suggests. In which case this nomination process is not needed. The problem with Vics suggestion is that it means the competition will need to become so general as to lack structure and purpose. I don’t know about you, but I prefer a structured, ordered regime.

The bottom line I think is this….we need to change, or our completion will wither. The numbers show that I believe, and its corroborated by the experiences since about GB32 (the current GB seems to be the exception) .


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## fubar57 (Feb 7, 2018)

Did good Michael. I'm all in favour of the 2 year plan


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## Donivanp (Feb 7, 2018)

I might agree, how many times can I do BoB? There is a large selection of WWII aircraft types but sometimes getting a more open selection , outside WWII helps liven it up. I like what your doing. Good on you.


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## JKim (Feb 7, 2018)

Thank you for all of your hard work Michael! I don't agree with the conclusions that you've reached but I recognize that one viewpoint is just as valid as the next. Here is mine. There are many different modeling message boards. The ones that I know of that deal with scale aircraft and are in English include Hyperscale, Large Scale Planes, Large Scale Models, Scale Plastic Aircraft Modeling, Finescale Modeler, Aeroscale, International Scale Modeler, Britmodeller. All of these have group builds and participation in the group builds varies on each of these sites varies. What differentiates WW2aircraft.net from the others, in my mind, is that it focuses on aircraft from WW2. Yes, our interests often extend to other eras and other types of models but I think the calling card of this particular site will always be WW2 aircraft (literally, since the website name is WW2aircraft.net).

So I have no problem limiting the GB topics to WW2-based themes. That's what I'm into, personally. Yeah, I'll do the occasional jet or sci-fi build but my passion lies in WW2 aviation. That's why I came here. I don't mind repeating themes because there are hundreds, if not thousands, of subjects to choose from each theater of the war and there will always be an interesting aircraft for me to model. Based on my limited experience in the group builds here and browsing through the group builds of the past, it seems like the strongest participation is generated by WW2 themes and I believe that this will continue to be the case. Based on past history, I don't think that the non-WW2 subjects are popular here and incorporating them into the GB's will serve to limit participation, not increase it.


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## destrozas (Feb 7, 2018)

let's see, I my opinion and options
1- preWWII conflicts
2-heavy hitters
3- MTO
4-PTO
5- defense of Reich
6- Eastern Front
7- vietnam
8- aces of the WWII plane
9- the war of the North Sea
10- night fighters


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## T Bolt (Feb 7, 2018)

I know there are other modeling sites out there, but I'm not involved with them and have no intention of doing so. If it wasn't for this place and the people here I would just be building my models on my own like I did before I found this place. I know its a WWII site and I do believe that we should do mostly WWII subjects, but I like to do other eras once in a while so I think we should do a GB (or split build) from other eras now and then.


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## Crimea_River (Feb 7, 2018)

Just for giggles, I spent the last 1 or 2 hours plotting GB participation rates from Day 1:







My conclusion is that we are not "dying" but rather that we ran into a spell of less popular subjects after GB 28. The original GBs were 1 to 17 and the Next Gen was 18 to present day.

In my view, the way to keep the GB's fresh and interesting is to poll more often - hence my suggestion to do this every two years or 8 GBs.

In the end, I can live with split builds but would stay away from splitting it the way it is currently being done. For example, the current suggestion would be to have this split in the 1st GB:

Aces (20) / WW2 Nth of 60 (1) (Total 21)

Now, I'm the only guy who voted for North of 60 and, if it stayed that way with no other votes then I see no point in splitting such a popular subject because one guy wants to do a particular, unpopular subject. I'm more in tune with maybe making the last 2 GB's in a cycle as split with subjects that have more or less equal interest.

Michael, I appreciate you doing these. It's generated great discussion and interest and hopefully we can carry that momentum forward.

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## herman1rg (Feb 8, 2018)

My Nominations

1. Neutral Nations 1939-1945
2. Carrier Aircraft 1939-1945
3. Anglo-Iraq/Syria-Lebanon campaign
4. Malta
5. Battle of Greece then Crete


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## parsifal (Feb 8, 2018)

we are mature enough to have a robust discussion and still remain friends and on the same basic page I think. 

For now I will complete the poll as it is currently configured, Then I will present two or three derived scenarios to the judges and wotjek to finalise the GBs for the next 2-2.5 years.

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## parsifal (Feb 9, 2018)

These are the specifications my nomination list is working to

1) two year building program - A maximum of 8 slots
2) No lost nominations

With the latest nominations, and working to the specification of a two year build program ive had to do something unpopular and introduce triple choice split builds. These nominations can be deleted later if it is felt they should not be there. I am not prepared to do that. Every nomination will be counted in my poll. Its an advisory poll at this point.

The second and third nomination are arranged so that the most popular secondary nominations are mated to the least popular primary nominations, mostly to normalise the distribution and hopefully keep interest up in the later builds. My opinion is that if we can, no nominations should be ignored.

On that basis with the latest nomination list added to the mix, we achieve a nomination list something like the following:

Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(24) / Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1) (Total 27)
Aces (20) / WW2 Nth of 60 (1) (Total 21)
PTO (16) / Malta (2)(Total 18)
MTO (13) / Between the wars (3) / WWI (1) (Total 17)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) /Korean War (1) (Total 17)
BoB (12) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) /Greece+Crete (1) (Total 18)
Night Fighters (8) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 16)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / First Gen Jets (1940-50) (6) / Cold War (2) (Total 16)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) / Spanish Civil War (2) (Total 15)
(9 slots in this nomination list, I had to do this to maintain some rationality to the ordering)

Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2),


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## Crimea_River (Feb 9, 2018)

I withdraw my North of 60 nomination, since no-one else is interested anyway.


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## parsifal (Feb 9, 2018)

I think I will do the same with my "Seaplanes" nomination. I will recalculate the nominations list accordingly


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## parsifal (Feb 9, 2018)

The revised nominations sheet improves after those withdrawals, its a flatter "popularity" distribution "curve", which is what we need to be aiming for. It also eliminates split builds for the first two entries.

Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(26) (Total 26)
Aces (20) (Total 20)
PTO (16) / Malta (2)(Total 18)
MTO (13) / Between the wars (3) / WWI (1) (Total 17)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) /Korean War (1) (Total 17)
BoB (12) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) /Greece+Crete (1) (Total 18)
Night Fighters (8) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 16)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / First Gen Jets (1940-50) (6) / Cold War (2) (Total 16)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) / Spanish Civil War (2) (Total 15)

Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2),

Any other voluntary withdrawals for the nominations. I cant agree to it if there are others in the voting mix for that nomination.


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## parsifal (Feb 9, 2018)

We could also amalgamate the "Greece /Crete" build to the "MTO" build if the nominator will agree to it. If "First Gen jets" is married to "Korean War" and the nominators for those categories would agree, we would combine them and call it "Military aircraft 1946-54" or something like that. I am the sole nominator for both the "Between the wars" and "WWI" nominations and can at this point combine them both under the title of "Pre WWII military aircraft"

This would produce a nominations list something like this:

Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(24) (Total 27)
Aces (20) (Total 20)
PTO (16) (Total 16)
MTO incl Greece, Crete & Malta (16) / A/C of the movies (2) (Total 18)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) / Cold War (2) (Total 14)
BoB (12) / Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) (Total 16)
Night Fighters (8) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5)/ (Total 13)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / Military A/C before 1939 (incl SpCW) (6) / (Total 14)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) (Total 13)
Military A/C 1946-54 (7) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) (Total 13)

(10 slots in this nomination list, I had to do this to maintain some rationality to the ordering)


Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2), Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1*), WW2 Nth of 60 (1*), Spanish Civil War (*), 


What are peples opinions about this suggestion?


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## Crimea_River (Feb 9, 2018)

Malta fits in MTO as well so why separate it?


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## parsifal (Feb 10, 2018)

Its already in the same GB


Without being too obtuse, I think we could ask Terry about the "A/C of the movies" nomination. If Terry will agree, we would have single subject builds for the first four builds


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## parsifal (Feb 10, 2018)

The Heavy hitters nomination should also probably drop the no fighters restriction......what about all those people who want to build Reich defences a/c? You guys that voted for that nomination should work that out amongst yourselves.......


My suggestion would be that the title be changed to "Heavy Hitters and the Defence of the Reich, Italy or Home islands"


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## Airframes (Feb 10, 2018)

Looking good so far, and yes, withdraw my nomination for 'Aircraft of the Movies' - it was just a passing thought anyway, and it's passed, got on the bus, and gone to the pub.
Not sure about combining Reich Defence with heavy Hitters though - there's a very good chance of ending up with a lot more '109s and 190s, and not many bombers or ground attack types.
There have been, and no doubt will be, many opportunities to build rafts of Luftwaffe fighters, and although there's nothing wrong with this, it gets a bit repetitive, seeing pages of Bf109s or FW190s in very similar colour schemes.

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## parsifal (Feb 10, 2018)

With Terry agreeing to withdraw the "A/C of the movies nomination" (which like the others now appears as a "tiebreaker " listing), the nominations list now looks as follows:

Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(24) (Total 27)
Aces (20) (Total 20)
PTO (16) (Total 16)
MTO incl Greece, Crete & Malta (16) (Total 16)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) / Cold War (2) (Total 14)
BoB (12) / Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) (Total 16)
Night Fighters (8) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) (Total 13)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / Military A/C before 1939 (incl SpCW) (6) / (Total 14)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Carrier a/c 46-82 (6) (Total 13)
Military A/C 1946-54 (7) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) (Total 13)

(10 slots in this nomination list, I had to do this to maintain some rationality to the ordering)


Tie breaker mentions
Between the Wars (2), Eastern Front (3), Commonwealth(2), Night Fighters(2), Jet Fighters of WW2, D-Day, MTO, BoB, Multiple entries for aces(2), Seaplanes/Floatplanes (1*), WW2 Nth of 60 (1*), Spanish Civil War (*), A/C of the movies (*),


Another possible amalgamation would be to combine the "Cold War" with my nomination for Carrier A/c 1946-82, and simply call the build "Aircraft 1946-82". If we did that, the first half of the GBs would be single subject builds. ​


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## parsifal (Feb 10, 2018)

The nomination sheet would then look like this:


Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs)(24) (Total 27)
Aces (20) (Total 20)
PTO (16) (Total 16)
MTO incl Greece, Crete & Malta (16) (Total 16)
Military a/c 46-82 (Total 15)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) (Total 12)
BoB (12) / Military A/C before 1939 (incl SpCW) (6) (Total 18)
Night Fighters (8) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) (Total 13)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) (Total 14)
WW2 Eastern Front (7) / Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) (Total 11)

That's a 30 month program. Its distribution is not as neat as the preceding builds, but a lot of split builds are now gone, by means other than ignoring the minorities. Are people happier with that?


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## rochie (Feb 10, 2018)

Bit late to the party but my votes.

1 Battle of Britain
2 PTO
3 Jets 1960's to 1970's
4 MTO
5 Eastern front

I dont think we should get to anal about these builds, hence my votes for rather broad categories.
It is all about a bit of fun and learning a few new things for me


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## parsifal (Feb 10, 2018)

Thanks Kevin. With your preferences added, the poll changes to the following

Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (27)
PTO (20)
Aces (20)
Military A/C 46-82 (18)
MTO incl Greece, Crete & Malta (18)
BoB (17)
WW2 D-day and after - west (12) / Twin Engine A/c (no time limit) (4) (Total 16)
WW2 Night Fighters (8) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) (Total 13)
Carrier a/c 39-45 (8) / Military A/C before 1939 (incl SpCW) (6) (Total 14)
WW2 Eastern Front (8) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) (Total 14)


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## Donivanp (Feb 10, 2018)

While I like the Twins , it opens up a large assortment from all sector, If putting a time limit on it or if no interest then it can be dropped. Just putting it in WWII still leaves a very large contingent of aircraft. Also I could see aircraft of the movies being allowed with in a build. such as heavy hitters, as it is a bombers none time frame(save WWII) I have markings for B-25's from the movie "Catch 22". I don't see a problem with that. If the movie deals with the subject then I don't personally see why it could not be done in the fictional context. Just my input. If Twin's does not work, pull it. We want to work this down to workable.
Gotta say though not fully understanding the scoring or placment.


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## Crimea_River (Feb 10, 2018)

Michael, I'm with Terry on the "no fighters" bit for the Heavy Hitters. The category is meant to cover bomber aircraft. The reason I said "no fighters" when I suggested it was that I didn't want a bomb carrying P-40 or 109 to qualify. This build should be dedicated to aircraft that are pure bombers.

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## parsifal (Feb 10, 2018)

I appreciate that, and can see lots of opportunities within that build mix for people to build "Reich defences" style aircraft everywhere I don't have a problem either way with leaving fighters in or out of that build. 

MTO GB should also include Yugoslavia and Torch and the Vichy resistance to that invasion IMO, .


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## turbo (Feb 12, 2018)

Sorry for my late input. I've got some from leftfield for consideration.

1. WW2 Lend/lease or aircraft supplied to another air force (whatever that's called!)
2. Coastal Command
3. African theatre of operations
4. Eastern Front
5. Transports and gliders


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## parsifal (Feb 12, 2018)

Thanks Kirby. Ive previously stated that if at all possible, the nominations list will not let anyone’s nominations be washed overboard and not included in some way or another in the final nominations. But I have to also work within the parameters of not having more than about 8-10 separate GBs and limiting as much as I can the numbers of split builds.

So, if I am to meet all those criteria I must apply some compromises to the build nominations. That means that where I can I combine new proposal to within the existing nominations. I will have to apply this design principal to some of your nominations.

So, this is what I have done with your nominations (please let me know if you are unhappy),

“_WW2 Lend/lease or aircraft supplied to another air force (whatever that's called!)_” cant be easily or satisfactorily slotted into any of the existing categories. It’s a good subject and your top nomination, so I have created a new nomination “_Aircraft in “Foreign Service (incl Lend Lease)”_

_“Coastal Command” _is best married to “_Carrier a/c 39-45_”, to create a new title “_Carrier & Maritime Patrol A/C of WWII” _That’s my suggestion for a “best fit” alternative.

“_African theatre of operations_” seems to be largely covered by the MTO theme, but it is possible people might want to build from IEA, the trainers in Rhodesia, the Near East (Iraq etc) so ive altered that title to be “_MTO incl Africa and Near East_”

_Eastern Front _can be drafted straight into the existing

“_Transports and Gliders_” is a low order nomination that you’ve made but unique I should also say. I think it marries into the “_Twin Engine A/c (no time limit)”_ nomination, modifying the nomination to “_Twin Engine A/C and Transports and Gliders_”

With those changes to the nominations categories, I can apply your preferences in the following manner; 



Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (Total 27)
MTO incl Greece, Crete & Malta Africa and Near East (Total 21)
PTO (Total 20)
Aces (Total 20)
Military A/C 46-82 (18)
BoB (17) / Aircraft in “Foreign Service (incl Lend Lease) (5) (Total 22)
Carrier & Maritime Patrol A/C of WWII (12) / Twin Engine A/C, Transports and Gliders (5) (Total 17)
WW2 D-day and after – west (12) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) (Total 17)
WW2 Eastern Front (10) / Military A/C before 1939 (incl SpCW) (6) (Total 16)
WW2 Night Fighters (8) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) (Total 14)


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## Crimea_River (Feb 12, 2018)

I'm a bit concerned that one of the suggestions I made seems to have now become a "criterion". Unless I missed it, I don't recall anyone agreeing that we should limit the GBs to 8 and re-poll every 2 years. It was just a suggestion, one that I still stand by, but it shouldn't be construed as a given unless there is general consent.


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## T Bolt (Feb 12, 2018)

I find think we need to limit it to two years if we have enough good topics to go a bit further


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## parsifal (Feb 12, 2018)

The way ive read the comments (not just yours) is that people are not keen on split builds and the general feeling seems to be that people want to come back more often than we were able to with the last round of GBs. Balance that against what I believe is the need to consider each and every nomination made and I can think of no other option other than try cramming later nominations already close to a match to that earlier existing nomination. I don't want to lose any persons nomination further down the track, because all of a sudden it becomes the imperative, after I'm done here with this nomination process, that we "need to limit the nominations to a 2 year program" That rationalisation process will already have been done by the time the results of this poll are presented to the judges and Wotjek for final determination.

This poll process is working on the idea of maximising the democratic processes. Every persons idea, so long as it is clearly constructive, matters and I will do my best to incorporate it into the decision making framework. Plus I want this poll to be as transparent as I can make it. Everybody can see where I am headed and everybody can make comments or give advice at any time. there is no need to build artificial walls to not let other have their say on the direction of this poll.

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## parsifal (Feb 28, 2018)

Just a reminder guys, this poll will be closing in a few days. Any final comments are welcome. 


What happens next. after the poll closes, I will forward the results to at least one of the judges for them to make a final decision. If I'm given permission to do so I will then post a new thread, "GBs 40-50" with the dates of each build.


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## Rogi (Mar 1, 2018)

Sorry all for the lateness still hit by this ruddy flu cold combo thing 

my votes are:
1. Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (27) -
just a question for this one, does it mean any era bombers? Ie WW1, WW2, Modern?
2. PTO (20)
3. Eastern Front
4. Chinese front (from the start to end of war)
5. Small and unusual airforces (ie stuff we don't usually model, Togo, Palestine, Nepal, Nigeria etc.)
6. Multiple Model GB, you can do aircraft, tanks, ships, dioramas whatever this can give us a little flair and spice to the usual aircraft options. (or take aircraft out of it completely, that way we all get a change of scenery) you can't imagine the amount of skills I've picked up bouncing from one group to the other we could all use extra skills and doing one of these kits would be interesting


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## parsifal (Mar 2, 2018)

Rogi said:


> Sorry all for the lateness still hit by this ruddy flu cold combo thing
> 
> my votes are:
> 1. Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (27) -
> ...



no just WWII....that was the original nomination, I just got a bit lazy .

Number 4 is very unusual, but I could include it in the PTO build I think.

number 5 is another unusual one is probably best grafted onto the "aircraft in foreign service" nomination.

I like number 6, but is not a vote as such Rogi. top 5 only mate.


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## parsifal (Mar 2, 2018)

So with Rogi's nominations included, the nominations list is as follows




WW2 Heavy hitters (Bmbr a/c, no ftrs) (Total 32)
PTO (including China war from 1937) (Total 24)
MTO incl Greece, Crete & Malta Africa and Near East (Total 21)
Aces (Total 20)
Military A/C 46-82 (18)
BoB (17) / Aircraft in “Foreign Service and minor nations (incl Lend Lease) (6) (Total 23)
WW2 Eastern Front (13) / Twin Engine A/C, Transports and Gliders (5) (Total 18)
WW2 D-day and after – west (12) / Neutral Nations 1939-1945 (5) (Total 17)
Carrier & Maritime Patrol A/C of WWII (12) / Military A/C before 1939 (incl SpCW) (6) (Total 18)
WW2 Night Fighters (8) / Favourite a/c of WWII (6) (Total 14)


This now concludes the nomination process. I will now forward this final list to the GB organisers requesting that they take it into consideration in the GBs 40-49.


Thanks everyone for your participation

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## Crimea_River (Mar 2, 2018)

A big shout-out to Michael for pulling this together and thanks to all who have contributed their ideas. The proposed list is now with the judges to review and a decision will be announced hopefully shortly.


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## fubar57 (Mar 2, 2018)

Agreed, well done Michael


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## Donivanp (Mar 2, 2018)

A+ to Michael


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