# US Bomber Turrets - How to avoid self fratricide



## Matt308 (Apr 13, 2005)

Any enlightenment on what devices may have been used on US bomber airplanes to prevent dorsal turrets from shooting their own vertical stabilizer? Training, fear, luck or mechanical interlocks? I know that waist gunners were notorious for shooting other aircraft, but did they too have cords/wire that prevented gun rotation into wing structures on their own aircraft?


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 13, 2005)

Matt308 said:


> Any enlightenment on what devices may have been used on US bomber airplanes to prevent dorsal turrets from shooting their own vertical stabilizer? Training, fear, luck or mechanical interlocks? I know that waist gunners were notorious for shooting other aircraft, but did they too have cords/wire that prevented gun rotation into wing structures on their own aircraft?



There was a cam and lock out mechanism which prevented the turret guns from being fired when the guns passed by aircraft structure (Martin Dorsal Turrets). I always thought of what would happen if the 2 dorsal gunners on a Privateer got mad at each other!


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## Matt308 (Apr 13, 2005)

Thanks! I suspect that was learned the hard way as we migrated from WWI to WWII. I have seen waist gunner positions with cord attached on one or both sides of the machine gun that apparently were used for both relief to the gunner to not have balance his weapon as well as what apparently looks like a means of limiting field of fire. A field expedient "lock-out", if you will.

I note that the Martin turret pic that you included in your response appears to have crazed "glass". Is this a replica of the original Perspex or is this just how Perspex ages over time? The pic looks like you may personally taken a look at the turret.

The B-29 sight alignment for multiple turrets is another fascinating topic. I have also read that some USAAF B-29s that were scrapped in the field, removed the turrets and sighting system and used them as field expedient AA with some limited success. Sounds like a lot of mechanical alignment work that perhaps was more of a means of passing time than actually resource efficient.

Matt


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 13, 2005)

That's true - In addition many of the B-29s used during Korea had their turrets removed because they couldn't track MiGs. The tail gunner was the best position to get a shot at a MiG and I think all the B-29 gunners who brought down Migs during the Korean War were tail gunners.

Interesting note - the B-36 supposedly had improved turret that could track high speed aircraft. These were kept highly classified for many years and there are not very many photos of the B-36 turrets exposed!

As far as the glass on the turret - Beats Me?!?


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## elmilitaro (May 12, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> That's true - In addition many of the B-29s used during Korea had their turrets removed because they couldn't track MiGs. The tail gunner was the best position to get a shot at a MiG and I think all the B-29 gunners who brought down Migs during the Korean War were tail gunners.
> 
> Interesting note - the B-36 supposedly had improved turret that could track high speed aircraft. These were kept highly classified for many years and there are not very many photos of the B-36 turrets exposed!
> 
> As far as the glass on the turret - Beats Me?!?


 * The turrets of the bombers back then I think were made from plexiglass. *


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## FLYBOYJ (May 12, 2005)

elmilitaro said:


> FLYBOYJ said:
> 
> 
> > That's true - In addition many of the B-29s used during Korea had their turrets removed because they couldn't track MiGs. The tail gunner was the best position to get a shot at a MiG and I think all the B-29 gunners who brought down Migs during the Korean War were tail gunners.
> ...



*"THERMOSETTING" PLEXIGLASS TO BE EXACT, BUT COMMONLY KNOWN AS"GLASS" FOR THOSE OF US WHO WORK AROUND THIS STUFF* 8)


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## Matt308 (May 13, 2005)

Really.

Didn't think perspex was made any more. Perspex and household plexiglass are not one and the same.

Any insight?


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## FLYBOYJ (May 13, 2005)

Matt308 said:


> Really.
> 
> Didn't think perspex was made any more. Perspex and household plexiglass are not one and the same.
> 
> Any insight?



I belive perspex is still made, If I remeber right, it was manufacturing methods, cost and enviornmental considerations which caused manufacturers to look into other plastics.


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## Matt308 (May 13, 2005)

Interesting. Good info.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 13, 2005)

Thanks


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## Matt308 (May 13, 2005)

Hey Flyboy,

You a Fed? FAA Flight Standards type?


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## FLYBOYJ (May 13, 2005)

Matt308 said:


> Hey Flyboy,
> 
> You a Fed? FAA Flight Standards type?



No, I am a CFI and an IA, but I do work with Flight Standards all the time.


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