# Images from WWI



## Graeme (Jan 25, 2018)

First World War centenary - Wikipedia

Thought it would be nice to start a thread where people can post images from WWI - similar to the WWII picture threads.
To start...
Two Australians guard a captured Turkish sniper (if you can spot him)...

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## Wurger (Jan 25, 2018)




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## buffnut453 (Jan 25, 2018)

This might interest folks looking at this thread. Sir Peter Jackson of "Lord of the Rings" and Wingnut Wings Models fame is collaborating with the Imperial War Museum to create a new film about the First World War. The film will comprise totally restored and updated footage from the conflict, together with recordings of interviews with veterans to get a first-hand perspective on the WW1 experience. The premier is scheduled in London for Armistice Day, 11 November, 2018.

This video gives a taster for what's in store...and I, for one, hope they release this on DVD because I think it's something I will want to watch over and over again:


_View: https://youtu.be/vn6HrP_LTu8_

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## Graeme (Jan 25, 2018)

Looks interesting Buffnut.....thanks.


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## Graeme (Jan 25, 2018)

Caption says this is Thomas Edward Lawrence.

T. E. Lawrence - Wikipedia

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## Wurger (Jan 26, 2018)




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## Graeme (Jan 26, 2018)

Observation "post".
A forward observation officer of the 82nd Battery, Royal Field Artillery, observes the fall of shot during the advance on Kut in the autumn of 1915...

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## Wurger (Jan 27, 2018)




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## buffnut453 (Jan 27, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Observation "post".
> A forward observation officer of the 82nd Battery, Royal Field Artillery, observes the fall of shot during the advance on Kut in the autumn of 1915...
> 
> View attachment 480382



It took many iterations, and over 80 years of technical improvements, before the Segway became a viable mode of transportation.

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## Gnomey (Jan 27, 2018)

Good stuff!


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## Graeme (Jan 28, 2018)

Rubber shortage in Germany - 1917...

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## Graeme (Jan 29, 2018)

Belgian Carabiniers with dog-drawn machine guns. 20th August 1914...

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Jan 29, 2018)

Graeme said:


> First World War centenary - Wikipedia
> 
> Thought it would be nice to start a thread where people can post images from WWI - similar to the WWII picture threads.
> To start...
> ...


Centered between the two Aussies with Enfield rifles on left shoulders-- I can see his helmet, and his boots behind the leafy screen-assume he surrendered his rifle- wonder what make, cal. and configuration he was using?Not "on topic" here,but a great movie about the Aussies in the Boer War-- "Breaker Morant"- B&W, probably came out in the 1970's--


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## Graeme (Jan 30, 2018)

Charles Web Gilbert - Wikipedia

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## Airframes (Jan 31, 2018)

Hansie, 'Breaker Morant' was made in 1980, in colour - great movie.

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## The Basket (Jan 31, 2018)

Turkish sniper rifle would probably be a Mauser not sure which one or if it would have had a scope. This probably from Gallipoli. Turks had the 1903 in 7.65mm 
Snipers are not usually captured so the guards could be there to stop any instant justice. A sniper would usually quickly throw away his rifle if he felt he was going to be captured. 
Turkey was a regional power so certainly a powerful enough country to have as an enemy or ally

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## Graeme (Feb 1, 2018)

The diminutive Arthur Vickers VC. Just over 5 ft tall...

Arthur Vickers - Wikipedia







Being congratulated by a rather large Sergeant Patrick Burns just before attending a concert for wounded soldiers at Highbury Hall, Birmingham...


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## Graeme (Feb 1, 2018)

A wounded British 'Bantam' bringing in a prisoner during the Battle of Epéhy on the18th September 1918...

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## Wurger (Feb 1, 2018)




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## Graeme (Feb 2, 2018)



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## buffnut453 (Feb 2, 2018)

A similar lack of understanding was displayed towards Allied POWs in German hands during WW2. Many civilians home in Blighty thought the POW facilities were rather like holiday camps with sports facilities and other amenities.


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## Graeme (Feb 3, 2018)

What America Looked Like: Collecting Peach Pits for WWI Gas Masks

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## Wurger (Feb 4, 2018)




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## Gnomey (Feb 5, 2018)

Nice shots!


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## Graeme (Feb 6, 2018)

Titled _Death the Reaper - _a composite photo by Frank Hurley...






*For the 1918 London exhibition Australian War Pictures and Photographs he employed composites for photomurals to convey drama of the war on a scale otherwise not possible using the technology available. This brought Hurley into conflict with the AIF on the grounds that montage diminished documentary value.[9] Charles Bean, official war historian, labelled Hurley's composite images "fake".[2]*

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## Graeme (Feb 8, 2018)

Church bells in Vienna ready to be converted into munitions...

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## Graeme (Feb 8, 2018)

From The Herald - May 17 1916....

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## Wurger (Feb 9, 2018)




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## Gnomey (Feb 10, 2018)

Lovely shots!


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## Graeme (Feb 10, 2018)

Australian officer with a captured German flame-thrower...

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## Graeme (Feb 10, 2018)

Spot the monkey...

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## buffnut453 (Feb 10, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Spot the monkey...
> 
> View attachment 482018



Any ideas as to the unit?


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## Graeme (Feb 10, 2018)

Hi Mark.

All I've got for that photo is "52nd Battalion in Vignacourt"...

One of the many Thuillier pictures.


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## Wurger (Feb 11, 2018)

Nice shots.


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## Graeme (Feb 13, 2018)

Workers having fun with propeller shavings at an aircraft factory in Nottingham, 1916...

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## Wurger (Feb 13, 2018)




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## Graeme (Feb 13, 2018)

Repairing bicycle tyres during shelling...

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## Wurger (Feb 13, 2018)




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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Feb 14, 2018)

Airframes said:


> Hansie, 'Breaker Morant' was made in 1980, in colour - great movie.


Thanks, AF- for the response. I've only seen it twice, but it left an impression- as did "Lawrence of Arabia" and "The Bridge On The River Kwai."


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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Feb 14, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Spot the monkey...
> 
> View attachment 482018


I don't get the "monkey" business, but the soldier in the front row wearing boots, whereas his mates are wearing puttees-stands out!!


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## buffnut453 (Feb 14, 2018)

Hansie Bloeckmann said:


> I don't get the "monkey" business, but the soldier in the front row wearing boots, whereas his mates are wearing puttees-stands out!!



From the chap with the boots, move to the chap sitting to his left...the person behind the second man has a primate on his right shoulder.

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Feb 14, 2018)

buffnut453 said:


> From the chap with the boots, move to the chap sitting to his left...the person behind the second man has a primate on his right shoulder.


Thanks- I missed that. Hansie


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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Feb 14, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Titled _Death the Reaper - _a composite photo by Frank Hurley...
> 
> View attachment 481538
> 
> ...


"And now I have become Death, the destroyer of Worlds!"


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## Graeme (Feb 16, 2018)



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## Graeme (Feb 17, 2018)

_*"The youth and slight physical build of many British conscripts by 1918 is all too apparent in this photograph which was specially taken, for the Adjutant-General's Department, at the infantry depot at Etaples..." 




*_

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## Wurger (Feb 17, 2018)

Interesting shots.


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## Graeme (Feb 18, 2018)

Thanks Wurger. You got some to post? 

Three Irish Guardsmen try out German body armour while examining a German machine gun...


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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Feb 18, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Thanks Wurger. You got some to post?
> 
> Three Irish Guardsmen try out German body armour while examining a German machine gun...
> 
> View attachment 482928


That is a rather strange looking German WW1 MG-- what is the shroud or tube- a water cooled MG? Where is the operating handle, and the firing mechanism? Not shown in any detail that I can find in this foto.


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## Wurger (Feb 19, 2018)

I would say all is fine witrh the MG. That's the German MG 08 that was nothing more like the water cooled Maxim gun. The operating handle and the firing mechanism aren't seen in the pic because the guy is holding it with the barrel nozzle and the asked parts of the gun were at the back of the MG. So.. these are put on the ground. Actually, the dirt and mud make them hidden or just less visible. The enlarged pic shows it better.






And a couple shots more...

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Feb 19, 2018)

Wurger said:


> I would say all is fine witrh the MG. That's the German MG 08 that was nothing more like the water cooled Maxim gun. The operating handle and the firing mechanism aren't seen in the pic because the guy is holding it with the barrel nozzle and the asked parts of the gun were at the back of the MG. So.. these are put on the ground. Actually, the dirt and mud make them hidden or just less visible. The enlarged pic shows it better.
> 
> View attachment 482969
> 
> ...


Thanks- that clarifies my questions-and allowing for the photography-film- etc. of the WW1 era--better detailed. Looks like a MG-08 Maxim gun- with the "knuckle busting" charging handle that indexed whenever the gun was fired- causing some problems for the gunner who let his knuckles get too close-ahead or forward of the grip. Flash suppressor on muzzle? Cloth feed belts?-- wonder what the weight of the entire gun on the T&E base was? And why are some of the loops in the cloth ammo belt empty, but next to several loops containing rounds??


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## Wurger (Feb 19, 2018)

According to a couple of sources the weight of the body gun was 20-26.5 kg plus the water 3-4 kg. The base was of 31kg for the sledge one or 20 kg for the tripod. The total weight 69 kg with water, 65 kg without water.

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## Wurger (Feb 19, 2018)

German WWI 7.92-mm Maxim Spandau MG 08/15 Machineguns carried by German Prisoners of War captured by Canadians, June 1917.

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Feb 19, 2018)

Wurger said:


> German WWI 7.92-mm Maxim Spandau MG 08/15 Machineguns carried by German Prisoners of War captured by Canadians, June 1917.
> 
> View attachment 482980


I would guess that they drained out the coolant water from the barrel shroud, to "lighten their load"- still way heavier on their shoulders than a WW11 era MG-34 and late, the MG-42 would have been. As wars progress over centuries, so does the increased technology of man's ability to kill his fellow man. I look the fotos of the German Soldaten, and wonder- any one of them could have my next-door neighbor- in "another point in time". Hansie

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## Gnomey (Feb 19, 2018)

Good shots guys!


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## Graeme (Feb 20, 2018)

More armour...

World War 1 Body Armor: 1914-1918 - Flashbak

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## Wurger (Feb 20, 2018)

A German MG 08 team in 1917.

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## soulezoo (Feb 20, 2018)

Hansie Bloeckmann said:


> Thanks- that clarifies my questions-and allowing for the photography-film- etc. of the WW1 era--better detailed. Looks like a MG-08 Maxim gun- with the "knuckle busting" charging handle that indexed whenever the gun was fired- causing some problems for the gunner who let his knuckles get too close-ahead or forward of the grip. Flash suppressor on muzzle? Cloth feed belts?-- wonder what the weight of the entire gun on the T&E base was? And why are some of the loops in the cloth ammo belt empty, but next to several loops containing rounds??


The British Vickers was more commonly known for the knucklebusting. One was instructed to ensure the thumbs rested on the top part of the handle lest it get mangled if curled around the handle as one normally would be inclined to do. However, that said, the Maxim would also make the careless pay a price.

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Feb 20, 2018)

soulezoo said:


> The British Vickers was more commonly known for the knucklebusting. One was instructed to ensure the thumbs rested on the top part of the handle lest it get mangled if curled around the handle as one normally would be inclined to do. However, that said, the Maxim would also make the careless pay a price.


Thanks- other than the difference between the Maxim and the Vickers as to caliber, are they fairly similar in design and configuration??


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## The Basket (Feb 20, 2018)

Yes they were close enough. Not exact but the Vickers was a modern maxim.
The Vickers is probably the most reliable most durable gun ever made.

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## Graeme (Feb 23, 2018)

Local women working in a British ammunition dump in Italy...


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## Graeme (Feb 23, 2018)

Britannia in the USA on a promotional visit and participant in the "Hero Land" exhibition...

Hero Land WW1 Exhibition 1917

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## Wurger (Feb 23, 2018)




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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Feb 23, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Local women working in a British ammunition dump in Italy...
> 
> View attachment 483432


With the smiling faces on some of these Italian ladies--well I wonder what they are thinking at the moment??-- Have to remember that in WW1-Italy was an Ally, Mussolini was a copy editor -and Ernest Hemingway was a Red Cross volunteer ambulance driver-- Interesting, how the "War To End All Wars" set the stage for their future careers.


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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Feb 23, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Britannia in the USA on a promotional visit and participant in the "Hero Land" exhibition...
> 
> Hero Land WW1 Exhibition 1917
> 
> ...


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## vikingBerserker (Feb 23, 2018)

It must have been something driving that into combat.

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## buffnut453 (Feb 23, 2018)

vikingBerserker said:


> It must have been something driving that into combat.



Pretty awful from all accounts. Hot and cramped with engine exhaust fumes constantly leaking into the crew compartment, leading carbon monoxide poisoning and some other interesting side effects. Oh...and they're doing this while slithering over the muddy battlefields of France/Belgium while trying to attack the enemy (and desperately avoiding getting stuck). 

Not a job I'd care to do, frankly!

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## buffnut453 (Feb 23, 2018)

Further to my last, this comes from Wiki (yes...I KNOW!!!!) but it jives with most things I've heard about regarding conditions in the early British tanks:

_The hull was undivided internally; the crew shared the same space as the engine. The environment inside was extremely unpleasant; since ventilation was inadequate, the atmosphere was contaminated with poisonous carbon monoxide, fuel and oil vapours from the engine, and cordite fumes from the weapons. Temperatures inside could reach 50 °C (122 °F). Entire crews lost consciousness inside the tank or, sometimes, collapsed when again exposed to fresh air._

_To counter the danger of bullet splash or fragments knocked off the inside of the hull, crews were issued with leather-and-chainmail masks. A leather helmet was also issued, to protect the head against projections inside the tank. Gas masks were standard issue as well, as they were to all soldiers at this point in the war (see Chemical warfare). The side armour of 8 mm initially made them largely immune to small arms fire, but could be penetrated by the recently developed armour-piercing K bullets. There was also the danger of being overrun by infantry and attacked with grenades. The next generation had thicker armour, making them nearly immune to the K bullets. In response, the Germans developed the 13.2 mm Mauser anti-tank rifle, and also a Geballte Ladung ("Bunched Charge") – several stick grenades bundled together for a much bigger explosion._

_A direct hit by an artillery or mortar shell could cause the fuel tanks (which were placed high in the front horns of the track frames either side of the drivers' area, to allow gravity feed) to burst open. Incinerated crews were removed by special Salvage Companies, who also salvaged damaged tanks._

_Steering was difficult, controlled by varying the speed of the two tracks. Four of the crew, two drivers (one of whom also acted as commander; he operated the brakes, the other the primary gearbox) and two "gearsmen" (one for the secondary gears of each track) were needed to control direction and speed, the latter never more than a walking pace. As the noise inside was deafening, the driver, after setting the primary gear box, communicated with the gearsmen with hand signals, first getting their attention by hitting the engine block with a heavy spanner. For slight turns, the driver could use the steering tail: an enormous contraption dragged behind the tank consisting of two large wheels, each of which could be blocked by pulling a steel cable causing the whole vehicle to slide in the same direction. If the engine stalled, the gearsmen would use the starting handle – a large crank between the engine and the gearbox. Many of these vehicles broke down in the heat of battle making them an easy target for German gunners. There was no wireless (radio); communication with command posts was by means of two pigeons, which had their own small exit hatch in the sponsons, or by runners. Because of the noise and vibration, early experiments had shown that radios were impractical, therefore lamps, flags, semaphore, coloured discs, and the carrier pigeons were part of the standard equipment of the various marks._

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## Graeme (Feb 23, 2018)

Tank crew layout...

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## Gnomey (Feb 24, 2018)

Nice shots guys!


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## Graeme (Feb 24, 2018)

Some German internees on Torrens Island near Port Adelaide who spent their time bodybuilding...

World War I – National Archives of Australia

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## Wurger (Feb 25, 2018)




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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Feb 25, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Some German internees on Torrens Island near Port Adelaide who spent their time bodybuilding...
> 
> World War I – National Archives of Australia
> 
> ...


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## Graeme (Feb 26, 2018)

Gallipoli...


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## The Basket (Feb 26, 2018)

Point of note
Camera tech in ww1 was not as good as today. Didn't have digital back then.
So a lot of shots were staged and not action shots as we know today.


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## Wurger (Feb 26, 2018)




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## Graeme (Feb 26, 2018)

_*"British stretcher bearers at a dressing station glance round as the Germans shell Monchy le Preux on 24th April 1917. British field guns can be seen in action beyond the dressing station." 




*_

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## buffnut453 (Feb 26, 2018)

Great pic. One of my relatives was a stretcher bearer in the RAMC (1/3rd West Lancs Field Ambulance). He was awarded the MM at 3rd Ypres and, luckily, survived the war.


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## Wurger (Feb 26, 2018)




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## The Basket (Feb 26, 2018)

To be honest I did wonder how the medical services coped with the mass casualty of a big push.
Very badly I would wager. Horrible to even contemplating the sheer scale of the injuries. Glad it wasn't me.


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## buffnut453 (Feb 26, 2018)

The Basket said:


> To be honest I did wonder how the medical services coped with the mass casualty of a big push.
> Very badly I would wager. Horrible to even contemplating the sheer scale of the injuries. Glad it wasn't me.



It was very carefully planned...but was, inevitably, messy once the "show" began. The entire casevac process was well-documented and understood from the front-line stretcher-bearers and field dressing stations through the Casualty Clearing Stations to the rear hospitals. The challenge was getting the wounded off the battlefield in the first place, which is where my relative came into play. The stretcher bearers were drawn from specially-trained Field Ambulance RAMC soldiers--the equivalent, in that day, of today's EMTs--as well as rank-and-file soldiers who were assigned to the task from the line regiments. Carrying the wounded on stretchers from no-man's-land was hard, particularly during battles like 3rd Ypres where the battlefield was turned into a shell-pocked swamp. It was standard practice for each stretcher to be carried by 4 bearers. By the end of the first day of 3rd Ypres, the stretchers were being carried by 6 and sometimes 8 bearers simply due to the horrendous conditions. The longer carries were about 3,000 yds and could take upwards of 7 hours to complete in the conditions prevalent at 3rd Ypres. I cannot imagine the horrors those men must have witnessed, and yet they kept at their task working themselves to exhaustion-point to recover as many wounded as possible. Brave men all!

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## The Basket (Feb 26, 2018)

You had your walking wounded and your badly wounded and the will die soon so stick em full of morphine wounded which were left by the side.
Sadly you're not going to survive a serious wound for 7 hours.
The mental fortitude of a man to see that for hours on end never mind the combat must have been beyond our comprehension

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Feb 26, 2018)

buffnut453 said:


> It was very carefully planned...but was, inevitably, messy once the "show" began. The entire casevac process was well-documented and understood from the front-line stretcher-bearers and field dressing stations through the Casualty Clearing Stations to the rear hospitals. The challenge was getting the wounded off the battlefield in the first place, which is where my relative came into play. The stretcher bearers were drawn from specially-trained Field Ambulance RAMC soldiers--the equivalent, in that day, of today's EMTs--as well as rank-and-file soldiers who were assigned to the task from the line regiments. Carrying the wounded on stretchers from no-man's-land was hard, particularly during battles like 3rd Ypres where the battlefield was turned into a shell-pocked swamp. It was standard practice for each stretcher to be carried by 4 bearers. By the end of the first day of 3rd Ypres, the stretchers were being carried by 6 and sometimes 8 bearers simply due to the horrendous conditions. The longer carries were about 3,000 yds and could take upwards of 7 hours to complete in the conditions prevalent at 3rd Ypres. I cannot imagine the horrors those men must have witnessed, and yet they kept at their task working themselves to exhaustion-point to recover as many wounded as possible. Brave men all!


I watch many of the History Channel and the Heroes Network TV shows- they feature both WW1 and WW2-actual film footage of the various battles. One thing I can never quite grasp- at the Battle of the Somme- where British General Haig ordered his troops "over the top" into no-man's land, and into the awaiting German machine guns- He was reportedly known by his troops after that blood-bath as "The Butcher of the Somme". What motivated his decisions to sacrifice so many of his troops, I wonder? Was he hoping that either the German machine gunners would run out of ammo, or their guns overheat or jam, and then his remaining troops could use their bayonets to deadly effect in close quarter combat?

George Patton had it right, and maybe his experiences as a tank Company Commander in WW1 influenced his to eliminate the "Pickett's Charge" strategy when encountering a fixed position held by the enemy. He also didn't believe in his troops employing foxholes-so I have read.

I couldn't agree more with your comment: "Brave Men, All"-- Brave beyond any call of duty, indeed..


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## Milosh (Feb 28, 2018)

Granduncle died after Vimy Ridge with bullet wounds to the leg from gas gangrene (horrible way to die). Of the 4 brothers who fought in WW1 only one came back and one has a known grave.

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## Graeme (Mar 1, 2018)

A skillfully sculpted mask applied to a French soldier...

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Mar 1, 2018)

Graeme said:


> A skillfully sculpted mask applied to a French soldier...
> 
> View attachment 484422


Makes me think of two movies: "The Elephant Man" and "Mask"-- both dealing with the birth deformations, not a war wound. I can only wonder what caused such a facial wound- and as a life-long non-smoker, wonder how this poor soul could manage to smoke? The foto showing him with the fitted mask seems to show a cigarette--what bothers me is the great number of enlisted men in the trenches on both sides of the conflict that paid this price, while their General Officers enjoyed a vastly better life in the rear areas- all the castles and homes "occupied" by the Officer class- One of the possible long-range effects of that horrific war was the beginning of the end of the "Upper Class-Officers" and their apparent disregard for the welfare of their enlisted men and NCO's--

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## buffnut453 (Mar 1, 2018)

Hansie Bloeckmann said:


> Makes me think of two movies: "The Elephant Man" and "Mask"-- both dealing with the birth deformations, not a war wound. I can only wonder what caused such a facial wound- and as a life-long non-smoker, wonder how this poor soul could manage to smoke? The foto showing him with the fitted mask seems to show a cigarette--what bothers me is the great number of enlisted men in the trenches on both sides of the conflict that paid this price, while their General Officers enjoyed a vastly better life in the rear areas- all the castles and homes "occupied" by the Officer class- One of the possible long-range effects of that horrific war was the beginning of the end of the "Upper Class-Officers" and their apparent disregard for the welfare of their enlisted men and NCO's--



I don't subscribe to the trite "lions led by donkeys" depiction of WW1, and we should be extremely careful of accepting latter-day depictions ("Oh What a Lovely War", "Blackadder Goes Forth" etc) as remotely accurate. To put things in context, more British Army General Officers were killed during the Battle of Loos in 1915 than were killed during the ENTIRE Second World War. Some 97 British General Officers were killed during WW1 and a further 146 were captured...that kind of thing doesn't happen if you're sitting on your backside in the rear areas. 

You should also be VERY careful when talking about the "officer class" as a homogenous grouping. The British Army went through roughly 3 "generations" of officers. The first generation were the pre-war professional soldiers, most of whom became casualties in 1914-1915. The second generation came in 1915-1916 and was drawn from the upper echelons of society but not everyone was "landed gentry". Many were middle-class sons of educated or professional men. Bear in mind that many of this "officer class" group went to war with men from their local environment, and they fought and died in the trenches alongside them. Casualty rates for officers were far higher than for private soldiers because the junior officers (Major and below) had to lead from the front...with obvious consequences. To cite the example of just one upper-class school, Eton College saw 5,660 boys go to war and 1,157 of them - more than 20 per cent - were killed (not casualties, which includes wounded, but killed outright). Historian Richard Holmes has termed the losses in 1915-1917 "the greatest holocaust of the male British aristocracy since the Wars of the Roses four centuries previously." Average life expectancy for junior officers in front-line units was just 6 weeks. The final generation of officers was needed because the "officer class" was getting wiped out in the fighting. This last generation comprised experienced enlisted soldiers with proven leadership experience who were selected for commissioning. You'd have a hard time convincing me that members of that generation disregarded the welfare of their men. 

I strongly recommend you read "The Anger of the Guns", a personal account of the travails of a junior officer in the Rifle Brigade. It was written not for publication but for his family's consumption, and hence provides a pretty unvarnished description of his experiences...including the efforts he took to avoid getting in harm's way and his daily care for his soldiers. Many such young, junior officers ended up having to take on unprecedented responsibility. There were many instances of battalions going into battle and coming out with a single Captain as the senior officer...and it rested on his shoulders to rebuild the battalion (and typically without returning to the UK for said reformation). Thus some very young officers suddenly found themselves being promoted to Colonel rank, just one step below Brigaider General. 

The Western Front was frequently muddy, bloody carnage with weather playing a major role in the fighting. It was also evolutionary in nature as both sides sought ways to break the deadlock while struggling to determine how best to wage war in the industrial age. Were there poor decisions? Yes, absolutely - some were unaccountably stupid. But we should be extremely cautious of citing that as the norm. Equally, suggesting that the officers in general, or the senior officers in particular, had no regard for their men misrepresents the reality.

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## Milosh (Mar 2, 2018)

There was also an awful lot suffering from what today is PDST.

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Mar 2, 2018)

buffnut453 said:


> I don't subscribe to the trite "lions led by donkeys" depiction of WW1, and we should be extremely careful of accepting latter-day depictions ("Oh What a Lovely War", "Blackadder Goes Forth" etc) as remotely accurate. To put things in context, more British Army General Officers were killed during the Battle of Loos in 1915 than were killed during the ENTIRE Second World War. Some 97 British General Officers were killed during WW1 and a further 146 were captured...that kind of thing doesn't happen if you're sitting on your backside in the rear areas.
> 
> You should also be VERY careful when talking about the "officer class" as a homogenous grouping. The British Army went through roughly 3 "generations" of officers. The first generation were the pre-war professional soldiers, most of whom became casualties in 1914-1915. The second generation came in 1915-1916 and was drawn from the upper echelons of society but not everyone was "landed gentry". Many were middle-class sons of educated or professional men. Bear in mind that many of this "officer class" group went to war with men from their local environment, and they fought and died in the trenches alongside them. Casualty rates for officers were far higher than for private soldiers because the junior officers (Major and below) had to lead from the front...with obvious consequences. To cite the example of just one upper-class school, Eton College saw 5,660 boys go to war and 1,157 of them - more than 20 per cent - were killed (not casualties, which includes wounded, but killed outright). Historian Richard Holmes has termed the losses in 1915-1917 "the greatest holocaust of the male British aristocracy since the Wars of the Roses four centuries previously." Average life expectancy for junior officers in front-line units was just 6 weeks. The final generation of officers was needed because the "officer class" was getting wiped out in the fighting. This last generation comprised experienced enlisted soldiers with proven leadership experience who were selected for commissioning. You'd have a hard time convincing me that members of that generation disregarded the welfare of their men.
> 
> ...


OK-you make fair points. As the son of a engineer, I had the good college experience, with ROTC-which got me into aviation. We were taught from the start that all officers, regardless of rank or combat experiences, had the welfare of the men they might command as first priority--I recall that Rudyard Kipling's only son- a Lt. was killed in 1916 at the Somme, and Kipling never could forgive General Haig for being the cause of that loss. Yes, Officers had to lead the suicidal "over the top" trench warfare charges, just as Pickett had to at Gettysburg, but such suicidal acts that cause the resultant "butcher's bill" in the aftermath are, IMO, inexcusable. As an American citizen, I don't pretend to understand the English and European "class system"- who goes to Eton, Sandhurst, Cambridge, and who works on the docks at Liverpool.


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## buffnut453 (Mar 2, 2018)

Hansie Bloeckmann said:


> OK-you make fair points. As the son of a engineer, I had the good college experience, with ROTC-which got me into aviation. We were taught from the start that all officers, regardless of rank or combat experiences, had the welfare of the men they might command as first priority--I recall that Rudyard Kipling's only son- a Lt. was killed in 1916 at the Somme, and Kipling never could forgive General Haig for being the cause of that loss. Yes, Officers had to lead the suicidal "over the top" trench warfare charges, just as Pickett had to at Gettysburg, but such suicidal acts that cause the resultant "butcher's bill" in the aftermath are, IMO, inexcusable. As an American citizen, I don't pretend to understand the English and European "class system"- who goes to Eton, Sandhurst, Cambridge, and who works on the docks at Liverpool.



The British class system is virtually indistinguishable from the American wealth system. The wealthy go to the good schools and get lots of breaks that aren't available to the poorer classes. One of the key outcomes of WW1 was a recognition that wealth and social status did not automatically mean that its members had any particular talent, ability, courage or ethical standards. It's also interesting how well the commissioned "commoners" were integrated into the officers' mess within most regiments. Wealth and privilege had little meaning in the trenches. What counted was an individual officer's ability to lead and look after his men. 

We can look back at the trench warfare stalemate as "inexcusable" but one has to ask, what could be done differently? Just sit there and do nothing? Wait for the enemy to attack you and potentially force a defeat? I'm not saying the oft-cited disasters like the Somme and Passchendaele were necessary or even well managed, but it's tough to know what else could be done under the circumstances. the goal of all such assaults was to break through the enemy lines and get back to a more manoeuverist form of warfare but the depth of the defences made any such breakthrough incredibly challenging to achieve. The final successes leading to victory occurred when the Allies finally managed to integrate all-arms battle effectively...but, even then, it was only possible once the enemy's will and ability to resist and been pretty much destroyed.

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Mar 2, 2018)

buffnut453 said:


> The British class system is virtually indistinguishable from the American wealth system. The wealthy go to the good schools and get lots of breaks that aren't available to the poorer classes. One of the key outcomes of WW1 was a recognition that wealth and social status did not automatically mean that its members had any particular talent, ability, courage or ethical standards. It's also interesting how well the commissioned "commoners" were integrated into the officers' mess within most regiments. Wealth and privilege had little meaning in the trenches. What counted was an individual officer's ability to lead and look after his men.
> 
> We can look back at the trench warfare stalemate as "inexcusable" but one has to ask, what could be done differently? Just sit there and do nothing? Wait for the enemy to attack you and potentially force a defeat? I'm not saying the oft-cited disasters like the Somme and Passchendaele were necessary or even well managed, but it's tough to know what else could be done under the circumstances. the goal of all such assaults was to break through the enemy lines and get back to a more manoeuverist form of warfare but the depth of the defences made any such breakthrough incredibly challenging to achieve. The final successes leading to victory occurred when the Allies finally managed to integrate all-arms battle effectively...but, even then, it was only possible once the enemy's will and ability to resist and been pretty much destroyed.


 
Points well made, Sir. In the bloody Civil War, we had the VMI, West Point and to some extend, Annapolis graduates from the wealthy upper classes in combat with the conscripted/enlisted from the lower classes-against their brothers and cousins- 4 years of that bloody mistake that in many ways, changed America as much as WW1 changed England and her Colonies-.

And the over-turning of the ruling families- Romanoffs in Russia, Saxe-Gothe in Prussia/Germany- Hapsburgs in Austria-Hungary- all over a single gunshot in the summer of 1914 in Sarajevo. Just as much a starting place in history as the shots against Fort. Sumpter- I can only wonder if the forces behind those cataclysmic events could have foreseen the long 4 plus year long aftermath, well-that's almost as futile as wondering if the bullet(s) that killed Hitler's companions in the Putsch in Munich had, instead, killed Adolph Hitler-and possibly Hermann Goering as well. What would have been Germany's destiny if that had happened??

-And if I may add, thank you for recommending the book. So far, Barbara Tuchmann's book about what started WW1 in 1914- "The Guns of August." And my only view of the British upper class in that time frame- 1912-1919 has come from watching the TV series- "Downton Abbey"-and now, more recently- British history from aprox. 1930's through 1960's in the mini-series "The Crown"--

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## Graeme (Mar 3, 2018)

Showing participants_ "of an armed services pantomime, Western Front. World War I"._ 
And the reason they printed it in our paper a few years back is that the "woman" was a local boy, Herbert William Henningham, born in 1897...

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## Wurger (Mar 3, 2018)




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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Mar 3, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Showing participants_ "of an armed services pantomime, Western Front. World War I"._
> And the reason they printed it in our paper a few years back is that the "woman" was a local boy, Herbert William Henningham, born in 1897...
> 
> View attachment 484780


Makes me think of: "Some Like It Hot", and prior to that, "No-No_Nanette"


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## Graeme (Mar 3, 2018)



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## Graeme (Mar 3, 2018)



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## Graeme (Mar 3, 2018)

Bondi Beach a few years back. The dog is not bad either....

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## Graeme (Mar 3, 2018)



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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Mar 3, 2018)

Graeme said:


> View attachment 484843


Even "Rock Chucking?""


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## buffnut453 (Mar 3, 2018)

For some reason, I have those cartoons going through my head where the character lets go of the rock and it lands on their head. Then again, standing up in a trench to throw a boulder like that is just asking for a bullet in the head....definitely a propaganda pic.

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## The Basket (Mar 4, 2018)

I would suspect the Italian guys are on a cliff and the axis er no...er central powers soldiers are trying to climb said cliff and chucking rocks down. So I agree probably staged but not without its truth.

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## The Basket (Mar 4, 2018)

If you think ww1 is about mud then the war of the Alpini really is something.
Avalanche or accidents rock climbing or the cold in a harsh winter over 1km up a mountain is enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey.
Problem is in ww1 hell is all around and freezing to death up a mountain is just one hell.
And your military leader was Luigi Cadorna and if you want to know a harsh martinet who killed his troops then the Marshall of Italy is worth a look.
Another battle on the Isonzo for absolute zero.

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## Graeme (Mar 9, 2018)

A US soldier enjoys a lighter moment during gas-mask drill...

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## Graeme (Mar 9, 2018)

ANMEF soldiers pose for a photograph with islanders in Rabaul, December 1914...

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## Graeme (Mar 11, 2018)



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## Gnomey (Mar 12, 2018)

Great shots Guys!


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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Mar 12, 2018)

Graeme said:


> A US soldier enjoys a lighter moment during gas-mask drill...
> 
> View attachment 485527


Don't see any insignia, but he must be a NCO- has a holster for a 1911 on his web belt-right hand side. Big fella, too!

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## Graeme (Mar 13, 2018)

Passchendaele before and after...

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## Graeme (Mar 14, 2018)

Returned soldiers now living their days out in a nursing home...

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## Graeme (Mar 14, 2018)

French dug-out kennels for messenger dogs...

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## Wurger (Mar 14, 2018)




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## Peter Gunn (Mar 14, 2018)

Graeme said:


> A skillfully sculpted mask applied to a French soldier...
> 
> View attachment 484422


Saw this article a while back, a bit of a read but pretty heartbreaking. A peek at the true cost of war. Faces of War | Arts & Culture | Smithsonian

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Mar 14, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Returned soldiers now living their days out in a nursing home...
> 
> View attachment 485849


My guess- a Hospital in occupied France-any way of knowing where this foto was taken, and when??


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## Gnomey (Mar 14, 2018)

Nice shots guys!


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## Graeme (Mar 16, 2018)

Hansie Bloeckmann said:


> My guess- a Hospital in occupied France-any way of knowing where this foto was taken, and when??



Hi Hansie.
In Australia. Original caption mentions 2,000 returned soldiers living out their remaining life in nursing homes.

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## Graeme (Mar 16, 2018)



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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Mar 16, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Hi Hansie.
> In Australia. Original caption mentions 2,000 returned soldiers living out their remaining life in nursing homes.


Thanks for the clarification. Hansie


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## vikingBerserker (Mar 16, 2018)

I could not begin to imagine.

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Mar 16, 2018)

vikingBerserker said:


> I could not begin to imagine.


Indeed- having to live out your life with such a disfigurement- "There is no glory in War- only death, doom and destruction"--Not sure who first said this, but this photo shows the destruction of a human life-and for what gain or purpose, I wonder??


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## Gnomey (Mar 16, 2018)

Harrowing shot.

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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Mar 16, 2018)

Gnomey said:


> Harrowing shot.


Harrow- isn't that a private preparatory school, like Eton??


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## Graeme (Mar 22, 2018)



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## Graeme (Mar 22, 2018)



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## Graeme (Mar 22, 2018)

Can't remember where I saw this now. I think it was Salvation Army personnel in Germany 1919 offering assistance. But it was the guys face that struck me as odd?...

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## Peter Gunn (Mar 23, 2018)

Graeme - Possibly he's a recipient of one of those masks in my post #111?

Faces of War | Arts & Culture | Smithsonian

Kind of looks like it to me unless it's just a strange shadow from the angle of the photo. Thoughts?

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## Gnomey (Mar 24, 2018)

Good shots guys!



Hansie Bloeckmann said:


> Harrow- isn't that a private preparatory school, like Eton??


It is but in this context means acutely distressing.

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## Airframes (Mar 24, 2018)

It's possible that chap is wearing glasses - there's just a feint outline of what might be the arms from lenses to ears.

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## Graeme (Mar 25, 2018)

From a small local museum...


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## Graeme (Mar 25, 2018)




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## Graeme (Mar 28, 2018)

Trench foot...


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## Graeme (Mar 28, 2018)



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## buffnut453 (Mar 28, 2018)

Graeme said:


> Trench foot...
> 
> View attachment 487635
> 
> View attachment 487636



And THAT's why good officers and SNCOs spent a lot of time inspecting the feet of their troops to ensure conditions like that didn't develop.

In a word...UGH!!!!

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## Graeme (Mar 28, 2018)

Piped oxygen and Fokker D.VII...

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## Wurger (Mar 30, 2018)




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## Peter Gunn (Apr 12, 2018)

Airframes said:


> It's possible that chap is wearing glasses - there's just a feint outline of what might be the arms from lenses to ears.



Agreed, but I think it's the strange look of his upper lip and nose that made me think it might be a mask. Then again, the lighting could just make it appear so.


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## buffnut453 (Apr 12, 2018)

I'm leaning towards it being a mask. Not that my opinion counts for much.


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## Peter Gunn (Apr 12, 2018)

buffnut453 said:


> I'm leaning towards it being a mask. Not that my opinion counts for much.



Eh, you have 3x the positive ratings than I do so your opinion is 3x more valuable...


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## buffnut453 (Apr 12, 2018)

Peter Gunn said:


> Eh, you have 3x the positive ratings than I do so your opinion is 3x more valuable...



Ahhh, that's just a mere illusion. Bear in mind that I've been lurking here 9 years longer than you and that my positive ratings come from 6x the number of posts that you've generated. Ergo, measured on a timescale or value-per-post, you win hands-down!

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## Peter Gunn (Apr 12, 2018)

Extraneous post, please delete.


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## Peter Gunn (Apr 13, 2018)

buffnut453 said:


> Ahhh, that's just a mere illusion. Bear in mind that I've been lurking here 9 years longer than you and that my positive ratings come from 6x the number of posts that you've generated. Ergo, measured on a timescale or value-per-post, you win hands-down!


My friend, after a dreadful day at work where I believe I could have used trained monkeys instead of my staff and gotten a better result, this bona fide made me laugh out loud, thank you my fellow Buff worshiper.


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## Graeme (Apr 17, 2018)

"Cleaning" a 15 inch gun...,

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## Graeme (Apr 24, 2018)

Anzac Day - Wikipedia

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## johnbr (Jun 16, 2018)

unit photo showing a jovial squadron of WWI pilots and observers in their flight gear. Press release text on the reverse reads "A famous Royal Air Force Squadron. Every pilot and observer in the group has brought down at least three enemy machines.

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## Wurger (Jun 17, 2018)




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## Smokey Stover (Jul 11, 2018)



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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Jul 14, 2018)

Smokey Stover said:


> View attachment 501375


Mastiffs and a carriage with a Maxim MG-- WW1 era. They are not German troops, are they French??


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## Gnomey (Jul 14, 2018)

Good shots!


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## Milosh (Jul 15, 2018)

Guy on the left was lucky. Pretty good ding in his helmet.

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## Smokey Stover (Jul 16, 2018)

Hansie Bloeckmann said:


> Mastiffs and a carriage with a Maxim MG-- WW1 era. They are not German troops, are they French??


Actually i didnt realy study the pic that much, but yes, i do believe you are right. I think they are French troops.... No, scrap that rewind... It was a propaganda pic and they are, i believe, Belgium troops.


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## GrauGeist (Jul 17, 2018)

Not sure how I missed this thread, 

 Graeme
, but I've been enjoying it so far!

Here's a family photo of my Grandfather: Walter "Bud" Messecar, front row kneeling, second from the left - United States Army Cavalry. He had part of his foot shot off and in later years, was called back to active duty by the Army to be a guard at the Tule Lake internment camp during WWII

The majority of the men seen in this photo were Montana Cowboys.

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## GrauGeist (Jul 17, 2018)

An interesting product of WWI, was the "Kettering Bug", which was literally a flying torpedo and the grandfather of cruise missiles.

It was developed late in the war and made it's first (and unsuccessful) flight in October 1918.
It had a payload of 180 pounds of explosives and a range of 75 miles, traveling at speeds of 50 miles an hour powered by a 40 h.p. De Palma 4 cylinder engine.

It was designed by Charles Kettering and Orville Wright consulted on the project. It was manufactured by the Dayton-Wright Aircraft Company and it's guidance and control system was built by Elmer Sperry.

By 11 November 1918, 45 Bugs had been produced and they continued to manufacture them after the war for testing and evaluation. None were ever used in combat.


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## Wurger (Jul 18, 2018)




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## Gnomey (Jul 29, 2018)

Nice shots!


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## Hansie Bloeckmann (Aug 2, 2018)

GrauGeist said:


> Not sure how I missed this thread,
> 
> Graeme
> , but I've been enjoying it so far!
> ...


Apparently- if you were a Sergeant ( 3 rocker stripes) and above in the NCO ranks- you could also carry a sidearm, besides the Springfield Rifle. Possibly explains why the Sgt. has a different style ammo bandolier than the Pvts. with the wide web belt- this must have been before WW1-could it have been the campaign under Gen. Pershing to nab "El Bandito" Pancho Villa, along the Texas/Mexico border? Just wondering. I had a great uncle who was a 1st. Lt. in Pershing's unit at Fort Bliss, TX- served from 1910 to 1916- wish I had some fotos to share--

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 9, 2018)

Returning on a Tank: Members of the 5th Canadian Mounted Rifles return from combat piled on a tank in this August, 1918, photograph. At the Battle of Amiens, where this photograph was taken, Canadians experimented with transporting infantry to the front inside the tanks, but carbon monoxide exhaust and the crippling heat left most of them vomiting and unable to fight.[Globe & Mail]

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## Wurger (Nov 9, 2018)




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## michaelmaltby (Nov 9, 2018)

J.L. Granatstein: This November 11th, remember Canada’s heroic 100 days

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## Gnomey (Nov 9, 2018)

Good shot!


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## michaelmaltby (Nov 9, 2018)

In photos: Colourized images offer new perspectives on last days of the First World War


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## Wurger (Nov 9, 2018)




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## ARTESH (Dec 10, 2018)

Soltan Reza Khan training Cossaks to operate a Maxim MG .

Fact 1: Soltan was equivalent to Captain in late Qajar era , higher rank was Yavar , lower rank was Naeb.
Fact 2: yes, you are right, he's next king, Reza shah.
Fact 3: he was also called Reza Shast Tir (60 rounds, or Reza Maxim , as photo says) cuz he was only Maxim MG trainer available at that time.


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