# Aircraft Identification V



## red admiral (Jul 8, 2005)

I give up. I have no idea what it is called. I have no idea where I've seen it before. I don't want to try looking for it anymore.


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## JCS (Jul 8, 2005)

Ok, seems like most of you give up with this one so here it is...its the Aereonautica Lombarda A.R. (Assalto Radioguidato)

Heres some info on it:
http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft performance/frati/history.htm

And heres the site where I got the pics from:
http://www.giemmesesto.org/settori/aerei/AereonauticaLombardaAR/AR.htm


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 8, 2005)

Wow, interesting! 8)


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## red admiral (Jul 8, 2005)

Thank you very much. Now I remember where I saw it before. It was on the second site, but i erased that bookmark and haven't re-found that site since.






Not a military plane itself, but was going to be developed into one.


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## BlackWolf3945 (Jul 8, 2005)

Hadn't seen that second page before JCS... coolish...

Red Admiral's is the Bugatti 100P or 110P... the 100 and 110 were the same airframe but it was re-designated 110 after shortening the wingspan...

The aircraft has been restored by the EAA in Wisconsin. You can see the restored aircraft HERE...


Fade to Black...


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## Smokey (Jul 8, 2005)

That's the most beautiful aircraft I've ever seen
Bugatti should use it to advertise the launch of the Veyron












Actually the 100 would make the Veyron look ugly - not a good idea.


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## Wildcat (Jul 9, 2005)

Reminds me of a fish..


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## kiwimac (Jul 9, 2005)

Try this cut-away of the Bugatti






Source: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/morlock68/bugatti.htm

Kiwimac


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## kiwimac (Jul 9, 2005)

It is indeed a beautiful aircraft.

Kiwimac


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 9, 2005)

i'm not sure why but she reminds me of the Do-335..........


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## kiwimac (Jul 9, 2005)

Ya got me too Lanc, I have no idea as well!

Kiwimac


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 9, 2005)

I really dont see the resemblance...  But fuck me thats a gorgeous plane.


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## red admiral (Jul 9, 2005)

The best thing about it is the speed. 500-550mph expected. The fighter variant was to be armed with 1x37mm and 4x7.5mm guns. Its got to be one of the best looking planes ever. What about the one at the top the page?


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## JCS (Jul 9, 2005)

I really dont see anything special about how that looks...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 9, 2005)

nor do i particularly, and isn't 500mph+ pushing it a bit?


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 9, 2005)

Not really, looks pretty streamlined...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 9, 2005)

so does a baked bean 

even with 800hp, i'll eat...a ginster's "cornish" pasty if that thing can reach 500+ mph........


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 9, 2005)

Ambrosini S.A.I 403 Dardo does 410mph with 700hp...its not unreasonable...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 9, 2005)

no, CC, the stats say she could, did she ever pull it off??

and this plane, whilst she may be light for what she is, will be heavier than the ambrosini, and she only has 100 extra hp?? i don't think so.........


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 9, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> no, CC, the stats say she could, did she ever pull it off??
> 
> and this plane, whilst she may be light for what she is, will be heavier than the ambrosini, and she only has 100 extra hp?? i don't think so.........



And is much more streamlined and more advanced...

Yes, it did achieve it...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 9, 2005)

at full combat spec.??

even if it is advanced, 2x the engines for an extra 100hp will not push it over 500mph, i mean that's the weight of two engines and the extra fuel........


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 9, 2005)

Yep...I've been through all this before...


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## red admiral (Jul 9, 2005)

- The engines are made from magnesium i believe and are very light.

- The contra-rotating props give about 15% more efficiency than a single propellor. So 2x450*1.15=1035hp.

- The tail area is negligible. There are no bulky radiators.

- Forward swept wings give more streamlining. ( c. 5-8degrees)

- Short span cuts down drag, but lessens maneuverability.

I have a rough spreadsheet for building your own aircraft on excel. On this the estimated top speed is about [email protected] level.

Lanc, does your cornish pasty have carrots?


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 9, 2005)

Magnesium engines? Sweet...


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## kiwimac (Jul 10, 2005)

LOL


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## red admiral (Jul 10, 2005)

Engine ( Values given are for 1 engine ) :
Type : T50 B1
Power : 400 (450) hp 500 hp
Revolutions : 4500 rpm ( 4700 )
Weight : 220 kg 
Number of cylinders : 8 8
Firing sequence : 1 - 6 - 2 - 5 - 8 - 3 - 7 - 4
Capacity : 4700 cm3
Engine Block : aluminium
Lubrication : under pressure with dry casing
Cooling : with water in 1 radiator doubles half for each engine
Accessories: magnesium 
Supercharger: 1 Roots compressor 
Distribution: 2 camshafts at the head

From that French site. Aluminum engine block, magnesium other bits. This is what happens when you work from memory.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 10, 2005)

I think the aircraft is beuatiful. I really wonder how she would have panned out as a fighter.


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## Smokey (Jul 10, 2005)

*The engines in the Model 100 are not "simple" T50B engines! The T50B was too heavy, the aluminium block had to be redesigned and recast in magnesium. Also a special, leightweight, Roots supercharger was fitted. In the picture the engines can be seen, in the plane.*

Source
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/morlock68/bugatti.htm


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 10, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I think the aircraft is beuatiful. I really wonder how she would have panned out as a fighter.



Pretty good I think. Obviously performance would have deteriorated with added guns etc but it would be among the elite.


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## JCS (Jul 10, 2005)

Try this one....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 10, 2005)

It looks like a development of the Mig-17. Maybe a prototype.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 10, 2005)

Yeah it does look like a MiG-17 prototype. I thought that was a radial engine at first


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## JCS (Jul 10, 2005)

No, its not a MiG......


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 10, 2005)

Well its obviously Russian and it looks like a Mig. So in that case I am expended.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 10, 2005)

Some sorta Lavochkin? or Yak?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 10, 2005)

Im going to go with Yak.

Nice siggy.


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## JCS (Jul 10, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Some sorta Lavochkin?



Yup 8) Now whats the model?


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## red admiral (Jul 10, 2005)

Lavochkin La-200 all-weather fighter.


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## Smokey (Jul 10, 2005)

What is this?


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## BlackWolf3945 (Jul 10, 2005)

Leduc 0.21

As an aside, you may not want to post an image directly from another website... especially when the filename of the image includes the name of the airplane... 


Fade to Black...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 11, 2005)

and yes, the cornish pasty can contain carrot......


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 11, 2005)

What?


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## JCS (Jul 11, 2005)

He said hed eat a cornish pasty if that streamlined blue thing a few pages back could do 500MPH, then red admiral proved it could and said "Lanc, does your cornish pasty have carrots?"........


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 11, 2005)

ah, no, i siad i'd eat a GINSTER's "cornish" pasty, and no, they do not contain carrot, what they contain is scarecly edible.....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 11, 2005)

Never even heard of the stuff.


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## red admiral (Jul 11, 2005)

A proper cornish pasty does not contain carrot. If it has carrot, it is not a cornish pasty. Ginsters aren't too bad, apart from warmed up.







Poor photo, but I couldn't find anyother of it. Ideas?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 12, 2005)

ginsters are not proper cornish pasties, do net get fooled into thinking that when you eat a ginster's pasty you're eating a proper cornish pasty, because adler is more cornish than ginsters!


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## JCS (Jul 12, 2005)

What is a "Pasty" anyway?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 12, 2005)

these are.........


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 12, 2005)

It looks like a puffy clam!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 12, 2005)

never insult the cornish pasty!


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## evangilder (Jul 12, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> It looks like a puffy clam!



Or a light colored dog turd.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 12, 2005)




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## cheddar cheese (Jul 12, 2005)

Or a perfect target when shooting Air Rifles.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 19, 2005)

I dont know what it is, but it looks cool.


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## red admiral (Jul 19, 2005)

The pasty or hte last pic I posted?


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 19, 2005)




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## evangilder (Jul 19, 2005)

Hmmm, a poo with a 'tude?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 19, 2005)

The last aircraft.


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## JCS (Jul 19, 2005)

I swear I just saw that one somewhere the other day but I've got no idea where


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 19, 2005)

It looks somewhat familier but I can not place it.


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## red admiral (Jul 20, 2005)




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## JCS (Jul 20, 2005)

RA, you might want to save the pic to your computer and then upload it, the answer is right there in the url...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 20, 2005)

Dope and I missed it!


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 20, 2005)

JCS said:


> RA, you might want to save the pic to your computer and then upload it, the answer is right there in the url...



Indeed...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 20, 2005)

Like I said too bad I did not catch that.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 20, 2005)

ha, i knew it anyway 8)

well, it is british.........


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 20, 2005)

I expect nothing less!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 20, 2005)

Well obviously Lanc, I am glad you picked up on that.


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## red admiral (Jul 21, 2005)

Normally I do, but to save time I just direct linked from the HP site. I have some nice other things on my HD for tomorrow...


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 21, 2005)

Bring em on! 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 21, 2005)

preferab;y something i'll get


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 21, 2005)

What, like cooties?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 21, 2005)

actually that was quite funny


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## superunknown (Jul 21, 2005)

Looks like a cross between a Komet a De Havilland 108 Swallow


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 22, 2005)

That aircraft just looks familier but it is kicking my ass as usual!


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 22, 2005)

Sheesh, its a Handley Page HP.75! As we said, because he linked straight from the site he got it from it says in the source!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 22, 2005)

I did not catch that before he moved it.


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 22, 2005)

He didnt move it. Just right click the picture and click Properties. I try this with all the pictures people post!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 22, 2005)

Damn why did I never try that.


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## red admiral (Jul 22, 2005)

Any ideas?


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## superunknown (Jul 22, 2005)

Surely that must be pre-world war 2!


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## JCS (Jul 23, 2005)

I've got no idea, I literally know nothing about pre-war aircraft....


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## red admiral (Jul 23, 2005)

I'll leave it for a bit then. Maybe I'll post something a bit more modern as well.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 25, 2005)

Not sure but could it be some varient of a Caproni?


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 25, 2005)

Nah dont think its a Caproni, my reckoning is something French.


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## red admiral (Jul 25, 2005)

I'll kill this now. Its a Sopwith Cobham fighter/bomber aircraft.






This is more WWII.


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## Smokey (Jul 25, 2005)

Latecoere L.631


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## red admiral (Jul 26, 2005)

Nope.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 26, 2005)

http://www.msacomputer.com/FlyingBoats-old/france-Latecoere/france-Latecoere.html

This site shows it as a Latecoere L.631 (see photo)


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## red admiral (Jul 26, 2005)

Damn, I forgot there were 6 engines. Its not the 611.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jul 26, 2005)

i'd guess it's russian.......


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## BlackWolf3945 (Jul 26, 2005)

Looks like I missed some fun...

Bolkhovitinov 'S' Spartak with only one engine installed...


Fade to Black...


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## evangilder (Jul 26, 2005)

Yep, good call on that one BW!


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 30, 2005)

Ok lets try this one.


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## Smokey (Jul 30, 2005)

Bell XFL-1 Airabonita, naval version of P-39 Airacobra


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 30, 2005)

Correct.


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## BlackWolf3945 (Jul 31, 2005)

I have no idea how this one will go...







Fade to Black...


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## JCS (Jul 31, 2005)

Something French maybe?


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## cheddar cheese (Jul 31, 2005)

Looks maybe Czech to me.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 31, 2005)

Yeah looks Czech but since I could not ID it any of my books under Czech aircraft I am going to start looking at French.


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## JCS (Jul 31, 2005)

I cant find anything french like it, something built by Renard maybe?


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## pbfoot (Jul 31, 2005)

loks like an renard 31 will a garden trellis


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## JCS (Aug 5, 2005)

Jeeez BlackWolf, how long you gonna torture us with this one?


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## BlackWolf3945 (Aug 5, 2005)

Oh, sorry... I forgot all about it! Much too busy for my own good at the moment...

This will undoubtedly let the cat outta the bag...








Fade to Black...


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 5, 2005)

Douglas XO-35.........


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 5, 2005)

Yeah with the different identification marks it kind of does.


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## Smokey (Aug 6, 2005)

1935 Douglas O-43A

http://www.agelesswings.com/DOUG0_43.HTM


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 6, 2005)

Try this.


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## BlackWolf3945 (Aug 6, 2005)

Smokey said:


> 1935 Douglas O-43A


Give that man a cigar...


Fade to Black...


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## JCS (Aug 6, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


>



I'm thinking something Russian.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 7, 2005)

I dont know I would go with something American. It almost looks like a Curtiss project.


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 7, 2005)




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## JCS (Aug 7, 2005)

Now that you mention it, it does look a lot like something by Curtiss.


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## SM79Sparviero (Aug 8, 2005)

It should be a project for a mail-carrier high-speed aircraft derived from a racer, the latter born itself from the original Reggiane Re-2006 updated with a Pratt Whitney radial engine.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 8, 2005)

I take it I am wrong CC. Hell it looks Curtiss.


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## SM79Sparviero (Aug 8, 2005)

see: http://digilander.libero.it/air10/f104/re2006.htm


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 8, 2005)

Good find.


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 8, 2005)

Well done, SM79. 8)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 8, 2005)

Everyone please give him a hand.


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## SM79Sparviero (Aug 13, 2005)

It is not a "might have been". A prototype was ready to be tested in 1943.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

I am sure it is Italian but it looks almost like a French aircraft.


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## evangilder (Aug 13, 2005)

The pic above looks like an oversized Mitchell to me, at least from the side.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

Yeah it does.


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## evangilder (Aug 13, 2005)

Kinda looks like the B-24 cargo version as well (C-87/C-109) but it's a tail dragger.


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## JCS (Aug 13, 2005)

The nose/cockpit area sort of reminds me of a BR.20.....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 13, 2005)

It reminds me for some reason of a Bloch. I can not remember the nomenclature of it though. I know that that is not what it is though.


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## SM79Sparviero (Aug 14, 2005)

Piaggio P133.It was an evolution from P108 with Piaggio PXV RC or PXXII 18 cylinders engine ( the latter with a complex two-stage three-speed centrifugal supercharger) for 1650-1800 HP at take-off, for a maximum planned speed of 490 km/h.Bombload up to 4800 Kg.Armament: two turrets on the back each with a 20 mm Mg-151, 1 20 MM gun inthe tail, one in the fuselage step, one in each side, on blisters, 4 Safat 12.7 machine guns 3 fixed and one trainable on the nose.
Regia Aeronautica ordered a preliminary series of 6 bombers and a prototype was nearly ready in Piaggio factory in Finale Ligure in 1943.
(Data and pictures from Aerofan-April 1998, n.16 and Dimensione Cielo pocked books, n.6, Bizzarri Editions-Italy-)

Unfortunately this is the best picture I could find....if someone had a better image I would like to see it very much........In post-war Italy most of the iconographic and technical material was removed from industrial archives and destroyed by the ashamed industrial leaders and workers who feared that their works were interpreted as an "active collaboration" with the Fascist regimen.Such a suspect could cause serious damages to your health in 1946......


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## Smokey (Aug 14, 2005)

What is this?


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## SM79Sparviero (Aug 14, 2005)

Nakajima Fugaku.Six 2500 four raws turbocharged radial air-cooled(very much air) engines.680 Km/h ( hoped) maximum speed.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 14, 2005)

Wow good stuff.


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## red admiral (Aug 17, 2005)

For SM79.







Something else.


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## SM79Sparviero (Aug 17, 2005)

Fantastic picture!
Piaggio P123 long range bomber, proposed as "ad interim" cheap solution ,alternative to Piaggio P108 for Bombardamento a Grande Raggio public competition in 1938.
It was an extrapolation from P23 aircraft born for long range record challenges, with the new but unreliable Piaggio PXI 14 cylinders engines.


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## JCS (Aug 17, 2005)

Cool! 8) You seem to have a lot on Italian planes SM.79, what do you have on the Ba.88? Any drawings or pictures besides the few online?


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## SM79Sparviero (Aug 17, 2005)

Something about Ba-88


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## JCS (Aug 17, 2005)

Thanks 8)


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## BlackWolf3945 (Aug 17, 2005)

JCS, I dunno if you frequent AWF or not but there are some detail drawings of the Ba.88 from an original manual in the walkaround section.

You have to register on the forum to see some sections including the walkarounds.

http://www.airwarfareforum.com/index.php

Once youre logged in go to the Walkaround section and look in the '.:Walkarounds index:.' for the Breda 88 thread...


Fade to Black...


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## JCS (Aug 17, 2005)

Cool, thanks for the link BW. 8) I think I might've registered there a while back but I've got no idea what my user name or password is


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 18, 2005)

yes we try not to talk about the Ba-88 too much........


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## mosquitoman (Aug 18, 2005)

And if we do, we're slagging it off


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 22, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> yes we try not to talk about the Ba-88 too much........



Nice diagrams and photos SM79! 8)


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## red admiral (Aug 23, 2005)

Getting more obscure now. It wasn't actually built though, but nearly.


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## Wildcat (Aug 23, 2005)

Looks like a cross between a Mustang and a Spit!


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## GermansRGeniuses (Aug 23, 2005)

Don't remember.... I know it was made by an ejector seat company.

Wasn't it something like DB.5?


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## Wildcat (Aug 23, 2005)

MB.5? perhaps?


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 24, 2005)

I dont think it was an MB5, that was built. I think ive seen this somewhere though!


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## Piaggio108 (Aug 24, 2005)

It looks closely related to the Hawker Tempest. The wing is just like the tempest, and so is the tail. Perhaps a Tempest w/ a griffon engine?


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## plan_D (Aug 24, 2005)

I was thinking that. It looks like the engine could be a Griffon 85 with contra-rotating props married to a Tempest/Spitfre/Mustang kind of airframe.  

I can't help but think it's Italian though.


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## red admiral (Aug 24, 2005)

Its not the MB.5 nor Italian.


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## Smokey (Aug 24, 2005)

Hawker Fury prototype (LA610) with a Rolls-Royce Griffon 85 and contra props


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## mosquitoman (Aug 24, 2005)

Martin-Baker MB.5?


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## red admiral (Aug 25, 2005)

Its not an MB5 or Fury prototype.


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## NightHawk (Aug 26, 2005)

Yeah, Now its fine,


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Aug 26, 2005)

i've never actually seen that one before..........

(i copied the adress and actually looked at the pic on the site lol, it doesn't say what it is though)


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## Smokey (Aug 26, 2005)

Lockheed L-1000 experimental jet fighter, using an axial flow jet engine with afterburner dating from 1937 which was called the XJ 37. The engine had problems tho.
The plane used thrusters for roll control, like a spaceship

The contraprop Fury look-alike is puzzling


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 26, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> i've never actually seen that one before..........
> 
> (i copied the adress and actually looked at the pic on the site lol, it doesn't say what it is though)



Thats because theyre on image hosting sites... 

I really dont know what the top one is. Im sure I recognise from somewhere though.


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## NightHawk (Aug 26, 2005)

Smokey said:


> Lockheed L-1000 experimental jet fighter, using an axial flow jet engine with afterburner dating from 1937 which was called the XJ 37. The engine had problems tho.
> The plane used thrusters for roll control, like a spaceship
> 
> The contraprop Fury look-alike is puzzling


The engine was called the L-1000, The plane it self is called the L-133,


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## Smokey (Aug 26, 2005)

Yeah, there is very little info on the plane

Its a real shame that there were problems with the jet engine and some of the bosses in the USAF didn't trust the new technology. As a result it didn't go into service

It makes even modern jets look ancient


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 26, 2005)

The L-133's wing was used on the P-80


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## red admiral (Aug 26, 2005)

Want me to tell you about the Fury lookalike? Its not surprising it looks like a Fury really.

The Germans were closer to getting the Sanger Hypersonic Orbital bomber to work than the US was of getting the L-133 to fly.


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## red admiral (Aug 28, 2005)

I'll leave the other for a while. In the meantime, what is this?


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## Smokey (Aug 28, 2005)

Blackburn B20






It was designed to reduce drag by having a the fuselage open like a giant landing skid for water opertion and close in flight to reduce frontal area.

Duncan Roberts, Sam McMillan and Flt Lt Bailey were lost with the prototype, Flt Lt Bailey stayed with the aircraft until the last possible moment to give the other two crew members a chance to escape, his parachute did not open fully and he was drowned

It was nicknamed the "nutcracker", referring to the fate of anyone on the central float when it was retracted.

http://freespace.virgin.net/john.dell/blackburn_b20.htm


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## Wildcat (Aug 29, 2005)

Crazy!


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## red admiral (Aug 29, 2005)

Crazy? It would have worked quite well without the vultures.

The one I posted before that various people guessed as a Fury Prototype and the Martin-Baker 5 are wrong. The aircraft is actually a Hawker Tempest powered by a Rolls-Royce Eagle engine giving 3500hp. 500mph+.

Now, what is this? Or these?


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## cheddar cheese (Aug 29, 2005)

Is that the planned "Super Stirling"?


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## Smokey (Aug 29, 2005)

Supermarine Type 317 or B12/36

*It is also interesting to look at one design that never got into the air; the Supermarine bomber. In designing the Spitfire Mitchell had pioneered a unique method of wing construction, the single spar with a thick metal leading edge. If this leading edge section could be filled with fuel it promised an aircraft with a very thin wing and slim aerodynamic fuselage while still having large fuel capacity. The Supermarine Bomber (project B12/36) would have carried a bomb-load almost as great as the Lancaster at greater heights and at a speed close to that of the Spitfire! In short the B12/36 could have given the RAF a bomber superior to every other W.W.II type except the B29 Superfortress. As it was, Supermarine just did not have the workforce or factory capacity to push forward the project and when the prototype was destroyed on its jigs, during the Luftwaffe attack on the Woolston Supermarine factory in September 1940, the bomber project was cancelled.*

Several contenders submitted their designs to the Air Ministry, namely Armstrong Whitworth, Short and Supermarine. Prototypes of the Short and Supermarine types were ordered. Somewhere along the line during the building of the prototypes the Supermarine factory where the Supermarine Type 317 prototype, powered with four Bristol Hercules radials, was being built was bombed. It was only partially complete before the German raid, while after the raid there was only wreckage left. Subsequently, Supermarine then cancelled the project.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~fbonne/warbirds/ww2htmls/shorstirling.html#shorstirlingverstab
http://freespace.virgin.net/john.dell/spitmich.htm

Another pic:






http://www.rjmitchell-spitfire.co.uk/otheraircraft/1932to1937.asp?sectionID=4



> Bombs could be carried in the fuselage as well as in the wings, reducing the overall size of the planes fuselage. Three possible engines were proposed (see below). The plans were accepted by the Air Ministry but unfortuanely the two prototypes, along with the detailed plans, were destroyed by the bombing of the Supermarine Works, Woolston in September 1940.







Supermarine Works, facing river Itchen, Woolston, Southampton

http://www.supermarine-spitfire.co.uk/memories.html


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 30, 2005)

Crazy stuff.


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## Dogwalker (Dec 22, 2005)

I think it's easy, but someone requested more pics of this plane (one of my favourites) in the past






http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/DogW/073e2321.jpg

Just a present. 

Sorry for the intrusion if you already know these.


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 23, 2005)

Now theres an Italian plane I dont recognise... 

Unless it isnt really Italian...

Argh Now im angry


----------



## JCS (Dec 23, 2005)

I think its a Caproni Vizzola something or other...


----------



## cheddar cheese (Dec 23, 2005)

You may be right, it almost looks like an F.6 with a Radial...


----------



## Dogwalker (Dec 23, 2005)

Not proper a radial.  

DogW


----------



## cheddar cheese (Dec 23, 2005)

Aha! The name escapes me but I've seen profile of a certain Caproni/ Reggiane with a jet similar to that of the Caproni-Campini CC.2, as well as a prop at the front...

Were any of them made? Is it one of them?


----------



## JCS (Dec 23, 2005)

This ones starting to bug me, I used to know it and had a picture of it but I deleted my plane folder a few weeks ago when I became less interested in planes.....now I cant seem to remember any of them...


----------



## Dogwalker (Dec 23, 2005)

No, no, it's something more convenctional, and yes, it's a Caproni Vizzola "F series" fighter.

DogW


----------



## JCS (Dec 23, 2005)

Is it an F.5?


----------



## cheddar cheese (Dec 23, 2005)

It looks a little too modern for an F.5...

An F.6Z?


----------



## Dogwalker (Dec 23, 2005)

You got it. It's the last of the series, the F6z, with the Isotta Fraschini 24 cilindres - air cooled - X configurated (and finally reliable  ) - "Zeta" engine.
The pics were taken at Guidonia Airport, where te plane was tested until 8 september 1943.

DogW


----------



## cheddar cheese (Dec 23, 2005)

Hooray I got it!  Thats a nice pic 8)


----------



## Dogwalker (Dec 23, 2005)

Just a little too big, I know. Forgive me, and say what plane is it (yes the holes in the nose are guns).  

DogW


----------



## cheddar cheese (Dec 23, 2005)

Fiat Cansa FC.20?


----------



## Dogwalker (Dec 23, 2005)

Not so far, but it's prettier

DogW


----------



## cheddar cheese (Dec 23, 2005)

Caproni Ca.331?


----------



## Dogwalker (Dec 23, 2005)

It is!  












More photos and informations about this beautiful plane:
http://www.giemmesesto.org/settori/aerei/Ca331/Ca331.html

DogW


----------



## cheddar cheese (Dec 23, 2005)

Go me! Nice profiles there.

Welcome to the site BTW, Always good to have another Italian on board! 8)


----------



## Dogwalker (Dec 23, 2005)

Tanks.  

DogW


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 23, 2005)

so CC, where in italy do you live


----------



## cheddar cheese (Dec 23, 2005)

Modena. Can you not read my profile?


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 24, 2005)

sorry, i remember you telling me before you moved to italy but i keep forgetting


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 26, 2005)

Well I am glad this one got started back up, let me see what I can dig up also.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 26, 2005)

not even i can remember this one  i know where i got it from so i'll check it out later, and this isn't nessisarily from the first country you'd think i'd use..........


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 27, 2005)

no one?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 27, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> not even i can remember this one  i know where i got it from so i'll check it out later, and this isn't nessisarily from the first country you'd think i'd use..........



Poland?


----------



## pbfoot (Dec 27, 2005)

otto lileenthal


----------



## v2 (Dec 27, 2005)

SG-38/ Germany


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 27, 2005)

you're all wrong


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 28, 2005)

I am going to say it is either French/US/or Italian. Still looking though.


----------



## v2 (Dec 28, 2005)

Stamer Lippisch Zögling?


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 28, 2005)

all wrong again, god i did only say not nessisarily


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 29, 2005)

That means its not British Lanc because you only post things about British planes. That leaves how many other countries out there?


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 29, 2005)

no saying not nessisarily means it could be british


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 29, 2005)

Okay whatever, I give up on it.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 29, 2005)

anyone else?


----------



## cheddar cheese (Dec 29, 2005)

Aeroplane. Brum Brum!


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 29, 2005)

brum brum? it's a glider


----------



## cheddar cheese (Dec 29, 2005)

Thats what the pilot does


----------



## Glider (Dec 29, 2005)

I think that its called a Zogling from Spain. Its difficult as there were a number of designs that looked like that with the pilot basically sitting on a seat attached to the skid. 
This type of Glider came under the heading Primary gliders as they had a glide ratio of less than 8:1. To give a reference, the glide ratio of a 767 without power is 12:1 so you are not going to go very far.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 29, 2005)

nope.........


----------



## Glider (Dec 29, 2005)

It must have been close


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 29, 2005)

i'll tell you now if you want?


----------



## Glider (Dec 29, 2005)

I give in


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 29, 2005)

it's a British Slingsby T.3 Primary.........


----------



## Gnomey (Dec 30, 2005)

Here is one for you all.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 30, 2005)

That is a Schtscherbakow Schtsche-2.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 30, 2005)

Here is one. Somebody should be able to get this though:


----------



## v2 (Jan 2, 2006)

Focke-Wulf F19 Ente


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 2, 2006)

Yeap thats it. Whos got the next one.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 2, 2006)

I Could probably find something but im too damn tired right now.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 2, 2006)

Same here I am typing up a new thread and hten Im going to bed, I have to do a night flight tomorrow night, if the weather is not bad.


----------



## v2 (Jan 3, 2006)

Here is one for you all:


----------



## Dogwalker (Jan 3, 2006)

Pa-22 Flechair, french plane, captured and test flown by the Luftwaffe until its destruction in 1943.

DogW


----------



## v2 (Jan 3, 2006)

=D>


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 4, 2006)

Wow that is one wiered looking aircraft.


----------



## v2 (Jan 4, 2006)

Hi, and what do you think about this one:


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 4, 2006)

I know it but I cant think what it is right now


----------



## R988 (Jan 4, 2006)

v2 said:


> Hi, and what do you think about this one:



I think it's proof not all german ideas were as good as everyone thinks


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 5, 2006)

hasn't that one already been done?


----------



## kiwimac (Jan 5, 2006)

Probably but it is a truly .... unusula aircraft.

Kiwimac


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 5, 2006)

Yes it was already posted, and it is the *Delanne Duo-Mono*




R988 said:


> I think it's proof not all german ideas were as good as everyone thinks



It was not a German Aircraft. It was actually French.

_Yet another variation of the Flying Flea tandem wing, this one was designed by Frenchman Maurice Delanne in 1937. The first prototype crashed, but the second logged over 600 hours flying time. The first production model was completed just as the Germans invaded, and was completed under their supervision. Power was a 1010 Hp. Hispano-Suiza inline engine._http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/farmer/120/delanne.html#


----------



## v2 (Jan 5, 2006)

=D>


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 5, 2006)

1,000hp in that thing? Performance must have been moderately impressive...


----------



## v2 (Jan 5, 2006)




----------



## Gnomey (Jan 5, 2006)

Westland Lysander set-up in close air support role (4 gun Frazer Nash turret in rear. Pretty sure it has been posted before.

"Prototype K6127 modified in 1941 to Westland P. 12 configuration with shortened fuselage ending in Frazer Nash four-gun turret for rear defence and large-span tailplane with end-plate fins based on Delanne tandem-wing principle. First flown July 27, 1941, with mock-up turret, and scrapped in 1944."(http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html pages/WESTLAND LYSANDER.htm)


----------



## v2 (Jan 6, 2006)

=D>


----------



## v2 (Jan 6, 2006)

Nice one, isn't it?


----------



## CharlesBronson (Jan 6, 2006)

I think that is a french Loire, not sure about the particular model.


----------



## v2 (Jan 6, 2006)

No...


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 6, 2006)

Either a Potez-Cams 141 or an LeO 246.


----------



## Dogwalker (Jan 6, 2006)

Potez Cams 161, it was sunk in an allied attack after few flight trials. 

Try this (pretty difficult  )






DogW


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 6, 2006)

Looks like a single seat Fiat G.46 with a radial engine..  But I dunno


----------



## Dogwalker (Jan 6, 2006)

Only 2 minutes... too fast.  

DogW


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 6, 2006)

I take it im wrong then?


----------



## Dogwalker (Jan 6, 2006)

You are right.=D> 
Is the creation of an american guy that made this "warbird" appearance to a G46, but i read that the engine is the original inline, only the cowling is different.

DogW


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 6, 2006)

Wow! I didnt think for one second I was right I was joking  Sounds interesting though!


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 6, 2006)

right you 'orrible lot, what do we have here?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 6, 2006)

It's French....


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 7, 2006)

yep.........


----------



## v2 (Jan 7, 2006)

Loire 46...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 7, 2006)

yup........


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 7, 2006)

Try this...


----------



## v2 (Jan 7, 2006)

Why not... Koolhoven F.K.56


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 7, 2006)

Got one....


----------



## v2 (Jan 7, 2006)

Cessna 172?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 7, 2006)

v2 said:


> Cessna 172?



NOPE!


----------



## plan_D (Jan 7, 2006)

It looks like some kind of Piper ... but ...I don't know which one.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 8, 2006)

Hmm it looks like a Cessna 172 to me. Atleast the one that I used to fly. Is it maybe a Rockwell? It almost looks like a Rockwell Darter Commander but the tail is sligtly different.

Hmm.... Got me beat on this one, dont tell us though. I will figure it out.


----------



## v2 (Jan 8, 2006)

AERO COMMANDER LARK


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 8, 2006)

v2 said:


> AERO COMMANDER LARK


You got it! 8)


----------



## v2 (Jan 8, 2006)

I've got only tail...  who knows this bird


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 8, 2006)

Hmm Ive seen several aircraft with tails similar to that, so I dont know.


----------



## v2 (Jan 8, 2006)

Yes it's true, but that one is only one... and it's name is...


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 8, 2006)

Something tells me its a He-162 prototype or similar...


----------



## v2 (Jan 8, 2006)

No..


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 8, 2006)

I really dont know, just tell us.


----------



## v2 (Jan 9, 2006)

Ok, one more picture...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 9, 2006)

very interesting, would've thought adler would've got that one then..........


----------



## Gnomey (Jan 9, 2006)

Messerschmitt Me P.1092B?


----------



## v2 (Jan 9, 2006)

The Me P.1092B had a rocket motor (probably a Walter HWK109-509A rocket engine) located in the rear fuselage...


----------



## Smokey (Jan 9, 2006)

The experimental Bf109G-0 V-tail prototype (WkNr 14003)












Images from this site:

http://hsfeatures.com/features04/bf109g0vtail32ir_1.htm



> the experimental Bf109G-0 V-tail prototype (WkNr 14003). Only the one prototype was produced, and the V-tail design never went into production because it offered no real improvement in performance over the standard tail design.


----------



## v2 (Jan 9, 2006)

Great... =D>


----------



## Smokey (Jan 9, 2006)

I think the V-tail prototype looks nicer than the standard BF109
One long teardrop shape


----------



## v2 (Jan 10, 2006)

Rare bird...


----------



## Gnomey (Jan 10, 2006)

Blohm und Voss Bv 155


----------



## v2 (Jan 10, 2006)

=D> Gnomey


----------



## book1182 (Jan 10, 2006)

Would not have liked to have seen that at high altitude.


----------



## CurzonDax (Jan 10, 2006)

Still I wonder if they would have had the same problems that Beechcraft had with thier civvie aircraft with this tail. Over many hours of flight, compresability still happened and the aircraft started to have structural problems. In a fighter such as this, because of its performance requirements, I wonder if it eventually would be a problem.

Still, exellent research and it is a beautiful re-design. Is the model a factory model or a garage kit?

:{)


----------



## CurzonDax (Jan 10, 2006)

Garage kit. I guess it helps to go to the site. HEE-HEE.

:{)


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 12, 2006)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> very interesting, would've thought adler would've got that one then..........



To be honest that is completly new to me. I have never seen this one or seen pictures of it. I have read about it, but never seen pictures.


----------



## CurzonDax (Jan 12, 2006)

I love to see these what if prototypes that actually worked. The what if Harry Turtledove sci-fi guy in me would have liked to see some of these ships in the air in active squadrons. Bubble canopied Corsairs, V talied 109s, Bearcats, the Shinden, so on and so forth. I forgot the name of the comic but they do this where planes that never flew, but were practical flew.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 12, 2006)

Had the war dragged on I am sure this would have happened.


----------



## v2 (Jan 12, 2006)

A year ago I found this picture...


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 13, 2006)

Thats an AR-234 towing some sort of bomb...cant remember what the bomb is though...


----------



## v2 (Jan 13, 2006)

Ar234- ok, but it isn't a bomb...


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 13, 2006)

Wire guided missile or drone of some kind?


----------



## Parmigiano (Jan 13, 2006)

Nope, it is not a bomb: it is a trailed external fuel tank made with the frame of a V1. The connecting bar was also the pipeline for the fuel.
I don't remember the name, but it remained an experiment.


----------



## v2 (Jan 13, 2006)

It name was Fiesler SG 5041. =D> Parmigiano!


----------



## Dogwalker (Jan 13, 2006)

Not an identification problem, but another experiment with V-tail.






DogW


----------



## v2 (Jan 13, 2006)

P-63 "Nightmare"


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 14, 2006)

I cant see the pic.


----------



## v2 (Jan 15, 2006)

Another v-tail...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 15, 2006)

Thats easy, its a Aerospatiale Magister.


----------



## v2 (Jan 15, 2006)

=D>


----------



## Smokey (Jan 16, 2006)

What is this?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 16, 2006)

Smokey said:


> What is this?



A Beauelectra  or an electrafighter


----------



## Smokey (Jan 16, 2006)

Nope


----------



## mosquitoman (Jan 16, 2006)

It's made by Bristol but I can't remember it's name or designation


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 16, 2006)

Bristol Buckingham maybe?


----------



## v2 (Jan 16, 2006)

Bristol Buckmaster T1


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 16, 2006)

It might be, but I think the Buckmaster was built after that photo up there so I am going with the Buckingham. Who knows we are probably both wrong.


----------



## mosquitoman (Jan 16, 2006)

Buckingham and Buckmaster were both built late/post war and were a light bomber and a trainer respectively. This plane is pre-war design but I can't remember it's name. Google here we come!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 16, 2006)

That is what I was thinking due to the lack of a spinner on the propellers.


----------



## mosquitoman (Jan 16, 2006)

I seem to remember seeing a picture of it saying it was made by Gloster


----------



## v2 (Jan 16, 2006)

You are right Mosquitoman. It's *GLOSTER F.9/37 *- This twin-engined fighter was designed under the direction of W G Carter to Specification F.9/37 as a single-seater carry-ing an armament of four 0.303 in (7.7 mm) Brownings and two 20 mm cannon in the nose. A prototype (L7999) with 1,060 hp Taurus II radials flew on April 3, 1939, being re-engined with 935 hp Taurus Ills in 1940, and a second prototype (L8002) with 880 hp Peregrine I liquid-cooled in-line engines flew on February 22, 1940. The requirement for an aircraft in this category was dropped by the RAF and no production ensued. 

Data are for the Taurus version: Max speed, 360 mph (579 km/h) at 15,000 ft (4,570 m). Time to 28,000ft (8,534 m), 19.6 min. Service ceiling, 30,000 ft (9,144 m). Gross weight, 11,615 Ib (5,269 kg). Span, 50ft O'h in (15.24 m). Length, 37ft O'kin (11.27 m).


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 16, 2006)

Yeap thats it. The Reaper.


----------



## v2 (Jan 17, 2006)

Next rare bird...


----------



## Smokey (Jan 17, 2006)

Well done v2


----------



## evangilder (Jan 17, 2006)

Hanriot H-232?


----------



## v2 (Jan 17, 2006)

evangilder said:


> Hanriot H-232?


=D>


----------



## CurzonDax (Jan 17, 2006)

v2 said:


> evangilder said:
> 
> 
> > Hanriot H-232?
> ...



Boy was I way off. Way ta go evanglider!

:{)


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 17, 2006)

What did you think it was?


----------



## Smokey (Jan 19, 2006)

[h


----------



## CurzonDax (Jan 19, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> What did you think it was?



By the lines I thought it was either a Doinier or a Blohm Voss product. 

:{)


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 20, 2006)

Oh okay.


----------



## CurzonDax (Jan 20, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Oh okay.



Eye of the beholder stuff. To me its a German product to others its was a French bomber.  

:{)


----------



## evangilder (Jan 20, 2006)

Here's a fun one...


----------



## koivis (Jan 20, 2006)

Slingsby Hengist, isn't it?


----------



## evangilder (Jan 20, 2006)

Well done!


----------



## evangilder (Jan 20, 2006)

Here is some info on the Slingsby:

SLINGSBY HENGIST - Troop transport glider designed in accordance with OR.98 and to Specification X.25/40 issued in February 1941. The Slingsby T.18 Hengist was designed to carry 15 troops (including the pilot) and to be towed at max speed of 150 mph (241 km/h) EAS, in trains of three (loaded) or five (unloaded). Four prototypes ordered late 1940, of which the first flew at Dishforth in January 1942, behind a Whitley. Fourteen production Hengist Is delivered February 1943-March 1944, of which two reached the Glider Pilots' Exercise Unit and others remained at experimental units or in store until struck off strength in 1946. A strengthened undercarriage used on production aircraft was identified as the Mk III by Slingsby; this designation did not apply to the Hengist, which remained the Mk I throughout. 
Towing speed, 130 mph (209 km/h). 
Empty weight, 4,629 Ib (2,100 kg). 
Gross weight, 8,350 Ib (3,788 kg). 
Span, 80 ft 0 in (24.38 m). 
Length, 56 ft 5'12 in (17.22 m). 
Wing area, 780 sqft (72.46 m2).

http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/html pages/SLINGSBY T18 HENGIST.htm


----------



## CurzonDax (Jan 20, 2006)

Wow, it looks like Shamu was eaten by a Horsa or visa versa. Great post!

:{)


----------



## evangilder (Jan 20, 2006)

The fuselage reminded me of the C-46


----------



## CurzonDax (Jan 21, 2006)

Speaking of IDs, I thought I would interject this pic. Geez I thought the Nazis were bad off in '45 but this is ridiculous.

:{)


----------



## Wildcat (Jan 21, 2006)

And I thought Francis the talking mule served in the US Navy!


----------



## CurzonDax (Jan 21, 2006)

LOL!!!!

:{)


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 22, 2006)

LOL


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Jan 26, 2006)

lawl


----------



## v2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Interesting, isn't it?


----------



## Wildcat (Jan 27, 2006)

It's a B-24J that has been fitted with a B-17G nose for testing.


----------



## v2 (Jan 27, 2006)

=D>


----------



## evangilder (Jan 27, 2006)

Beat me to it, Wildcat.  What an interesting concept.


----------



## CurzonDax (Jan 27, 2006)

It looks wierd.

:{)


----------



## Glider (Jan 27, 2006)

CurzonDax said:


> Speaking of IDs, I thought I would interject this pic. Geez I thought the Nazis were bad off in '45 but this is ridiculous.
> 
> :{)


On this theme there used to be a small cannon fired from the back of a camel. An interesting concept.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 27, 2006)

Yep!


----------



## evangilder (Jan 27, 2006)

Great way to have a deaf camel.


----------



## Gnomey (Jan 27, 2006)

At least then it wouldn't hear where you were and take out it's anger on you  Be a sure fine way to create an ever grumpier than normal camel although it would be deaf...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 28, 2006)

either will do........


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 28, 2006)

I hate it when Lanc does that!


----------



## Dogwalker (Jan 28, 2006)

What a beautiful gray shadings. 
Modern art?

DogW


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 28, 2006)

both original pictures...........


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 29, 2006)

Its probably a Lancaster.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 29, 2006)

nope, neither are lancasters, heck one of them's even american!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 29, 2006)

B-25


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 29, 2006)

nope, for the second one, don't always think of aircraft as landing horizontally........


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 29, 2006)

Well you got me then.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 29, 2006)

Lysander?


----------



## Glider (Jan 29, 2006)

Sikorsky R4 is my guess for the second one. The first reminds me of the cockpit of a Beaufighter but I cannot work out what is on top.


----------



## Wildcat (Jan 30, 2006)

I agree, I think the top one is a Beaufighter, don't know 'bout the other one though.


----------



## Glider (Feb 2, 2006)

Come on Lanc, how close are we,


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 4, 2006)

sorry i've been away for a few days...yup, the first one's a beaufighter, and the second?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 4, 2006)

Gots me.


----------



## Glider (Feb 4, 2006)

My White Flag has gone up as well


----------



## pbfoot (Feb 4, 2006)

a long shot how about a C64 Norduyn Norseman


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 8, 2006)

no guess would've been better than that guess 

here's a more zoomed out shot, should be quite easy now............


----------



## Smokey (Feb 8, 2006)

Vought F4U Corsair






http://www.compass.dircon.co.uk/corsair_img2.htm


----------



## Wildcat (Feb 8, 2006)

I agree wth Smokey, Corsair.


----------



## CurzonDax (Feb 9, 2006)

In fact its not only a Corsair, but a Corsair nose down and almost vertical on the deck of a carrier after a VERY bad landing. I think its even a escort carrier. 

:{)


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 10, 2006)

bout bloody time...........


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 10, 2006)

Damn that pilot had a bad day!


----------



## Dogwalker (Feb 12, 2006)

Yes, it's related with the WWII.  






DogW


----------



## cheddar cheese (Feb 12, 2006)

Is it the Aerfer Ariete you posted in another thread?


----------



## Dogwalker (Feb 12, 2006)

No, even if it has something to do with it.

DogW


----------



## CurzonDax (Feb 12, 2006)

Yeao! It looks like a Daussalt product freaky with a Me-262.

:{)


----------



## BlackWolf3945 (Feb 13, 2006)

First version of the Aerfer Sagittario...


Fade to Black...


----------



## Dogwalker (Feb 13, 2006)

It is! And what's it's relation with WWII?  

DogW


----------



## Dogwalker (Feb 13, 2006)

Don't see any resemblance?











DogW


----------



## cheddar cheese (Feb 14, 2006)

I dont really


----------



## Dogwalker (Feb 14, 2006)

It's strange. They are the same aircraft with different engines and wings!  

DogW


----------



## cheddar cheese (Feb 14, 2006)

Is that really the only difference? They look totally different!


----------



## red admiral (Feb 14, 2006)

I've been away for quite some time, but popped in again to see how things are doing. Can anyone name this aircraft? Ugly isn't sufficient.


----------



## Dogwalker (Feb 14, 2006)

cheddar cheese said:


> Is that really the only difference? They look totally different!


It's the only difference. 
In the post war years Ing. Ambrosini, owner of SAI Ambrosini and designer itself (SAI 403 was partly his work), acquired the IMAM and gave life to AERFER with Stefanutti as chief designer.
He want to partecipate to the trials for trainers and fighters of the new Aeronautica Italiana, but the AERFER was a small firm that didn't have the possibility to try it's design in a wind tunnel, so the new solutions had to be tried in flight.
First, Ing. Ambrosini adventurosely found a Jumo 004 (now exposed at the Vigna di Valle Museum) to study the installation of a jet engine, then Ing. Stefanutti modified a SAI S-7 (that was a SAI 207 with a different engine) with swept wings and tail to study aerodinamic; finally, the same aircraft, renamed "Sagittario I" was fitted with a 400 kg Turbomeca "Marboré" jet engine. 
So, the second italian post-war jet to fly (being the first Gabrielli's Fiat G-80) was a wooden jet!

These early experiences brought first to the Aerfer Sagittario II, a light interceptor (2500 Kg of dry weight, two 30 mm guns, max speed 1,040 km/h and the possibility to take off from not-prepared surfaces, like a WWII fighter) equipped with a 1600 kg Rolls-Royce Derwent Mk.9-46, that was the first italian aircraft to break the sound barrier in controlled flight (in dive).




then, to the Aerfer Ariete, a study of the possibility to fit an additional booster into the Sagitario II fuselage (the second jet engine of the Ariete was the substitute of the booster).
The final evolution had to be the Aerfer Leone. Equipped with a 3090 kg Bristol Orpheus BOr.12, and a 4100 kg De Havilland Spectre kerosene booster, it was intended to be able of supercruising with only the jet engine, and to reach Mach 2,34 with the booster but, for a sudden shortage of funds, the Leone project was aborted.

DogW


----------



## CurzonDax (Feb 18, 2006)

Still was this a succesful design? I mean just because it could do well with a prop, was it succesful as a jet?

:{)


----------



## Dogwalker (Feb 21, 2006)

In term of prestations the design was succesful. The Sagittario II had prestations similar to those of the contemporaries Folland Gnat (that aquired a fame of Sabre-killer in the Indian Air Force) and Fiat G91 (winner of a NATO pubblic competition for light weight strike fighters to be adopted from several countries in 1957), with a much less powerful engine (the Gnat had a Bristol Orpheus 701-01 engine with 2.134 kg thrust, the G-91 a 2268 kg thrust Bristol Orpheus 803) and was at least as, if not more, maneuverable than those two.
Unfortunately it wasn't a dedicated strike fighter, but an interceptor and, in the second '50, in Europe, there was not a real request for lightweight interceptors. Only two prototypes were built, but for Stefanutti it was only an intermediate stage in the developement of the Leone.
The Leone could have been another thing (even if the booster solution was not very successful in other designs of the time), but we'll never know.

DogW


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 27, 2006)

i know you hate them adler but no one else is posting any..........

should be easier than the last one........


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Feb 27, 2006)

westland whirlwind, durrrh


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 27, 2006)

yes, i didn't think it'd be that easy


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Feb 27, 2006)

well, many planes kinda have that, like the meteor in ur picture


----------



## red admiral (Feb 27, 2006)

What about this one? Slightly harder and more unknown.


----------



## Dogwalker (Feb 27, 2006)

Too easy.  

DogW


----------



## BlackWolf3945 (Feb 27, 2006)

Fiat G.59


Fade to Black...


----------



## red admiral (Feb 27, 2006)

Ok. Something more difficult; The picture has been censored slightly by me.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Feb 27, 2006)

Nice G.59 picture *steals*


----------



## Dogwalker (Feb 27, 2006)

A Battle fitted with a RR Vulture Engine.

DogW


----------



## red admiral (Feb 27, 2006)

Nope. But close.


----------



## Dogwalker (Feb 27, 2006)

The Battle K9370 prototype with the P-24 Prince engine?

DogW


----------



## red admiral (Feb 27, 2006)

> The Fairey Battle flying test-bed (K9370), modified to accommodate the experimental 2,240- h.p. Fairey P.24 Prince X-type, 24-cylinder liquid-cooled engine (twice the power of the normal Rolls-Royce Merlin-engined Battle) The P .24, driving a 6 blade contraprop, was developed from the 480-h.p. licence-built Curtiss D.12 (Fairey Felix) which powered the two- seat day bomber Fairey Fox of 1925. The Prince F.T.B. was first flown on 30th June 1939. After 100-hours test flying, it was crated and shipped to the Wright Field on 5th December 1941 exchanging R.A.F. camouflage and roundels for U.S.A.A.F. markings. The P.24 was intended for a version of the Barracuda. Increased range was permissible by shutting down one 12-cyl. Vee.



Yes.

What about this one?


----------



## BlackWolf3945 (Feb 27, 2006)

Fiat G.50B


Fade to Black...


----------



## red admiral (Feb 27, 2006)

Nearly.


----------



## zerum (Mar 1, 2006)

What is this::


----------



## pbfoot (Mar 1, 2006)

DHC 2 Beaver or U6 or C20


----------



## zerum (Mar 2, 2006)

try again


----------



## MikeNZ (Mar 8, 2006)

LN - Norwegian, so probably a Honningstad C5 Polar - there's another photo of LN-DBW at http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Coates/3273.jpg - the tail looks similar, but the floatplane has a ventral vertical stabiliser - maybe to help counter the effect of the floats?

Got it - the photo is from http://www.luftfart.museum.no/Engelsk/Exhibitions/C5.htm


----------



## v2 (Mar 18, 2006)




----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Mar 18, 2006)

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................. Henschel HS 132?


----------



## v2 (Mar 19, 2006)

try again ....


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Mar 19, 2006)

is it German?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Mar 19, 2006)

It's an Fi-103 or manned V-1





monash


----------



## v2 (Mar 19, 2006)

=D>


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Mar 19, 2006)

wow never would have guessed that

NEXT


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Mar 19, 2006)

loomaluftwaffe said:


> NEXT



Yokosuka MXY7 Ohka 22


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 20, 2006)

I got to see one of the manned flying bombs at the Deutsches Museum, crazy.


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Mar 20, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> loomaluftwaffe said:
> 
> 
> > NEXT
> ...


wow ur good


----------



## v2 (Mar 24, 2006)




----------



## evangilder (Mar 24, 2006)

Looks familiar. Is that one of those Italian planes? If so, CC would know.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Mar 25, 2006)

I thought Fiat RS.14 but that only has a single tail...It certainly has an Italian look about it...

CANT Z.515?


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 25, 2006)

i'd put a large ammount of money on it being polish.........


----------



## v2 (Mar 25, 2006)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> i'd put a large ammount of money on it being polish.........



Och... interesting idea! How a lot monay, Lanc?


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 25, 2006)

all the money i own 

stuck now aint ya


----------



## v2 (Mar 25, 2006)

Ok, then I'll send you my account number


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 25, 2006)

don't bother, all the money i own ammounts to a big fat £0


----------



## v2 (Mar 25, 2006)

No problem... But what about plane?


----------



## v2 (Mar 28, 2006)

Other photo, same plane...


----------



## kiwimac (Mar 29, 2006)

Russian at a guess?

Kiwimac


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Mar 29, 2006)

maybe its that fokker TV-someting


----------



## v2 (Mar 29, 2006)

nope, it isn't TV fokker...


----------



## red admiral (Apr 1, 2006)

L.W.S 4 Zubr version with floats?


----------



## Wurger (Apr 1, 2006)

LWS 4 Zubr with floats is only imagination.LWS factory was planning this for The Polish Navy but it was only a project.The plane would be named LWS-5.


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 6, 2006)

yeah, and the bottom of the nose is curved


----------



## Pisis (Apr 6, 2006)

Absolutely no idea...


----------



## v2 (Apr 6, 2006)

The first prompt:


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 6, 2006)

Looks like a Hs-129 with a different nose, twin tails and floats...


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 7, 2006)

Never could have guessed its German


----------



## v2 (Apr 7, 2006)

The second prompt: First Flight- September 30, 1937


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 7, 2006)

> Looks like a Hs-129 with a different nose, twin tails and floats...



and different wings, so, baisically nothing like a -129


----------



## v2 (Apr 7, 2006)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> and different wings, so, baisically nothing like a -129



Ha ha ha.....


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Apr 7, 2006)

Hs 124?


----------



## v2 (Apr 7, 2006)

Nope.... Try again...


----------



## Pisis (Apr 10, 2006)

It's obviously not a Hs 129, it could be another Henschel....


----------



## KraziKanuK (Apr 10, 2006)

Has me stumped but just because it has German markings don't presume it is German.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Apr 10, 2006)

In the black and white photo the, part of the regestration can be seen under the right wing - it looks like a "D" - Deutschland...


----------



## Gnomey (Apr 10, 2006)

Blohm und Voss Ha 140


----------



## v2 (Apr 10, 2006)

Good job, Gnomey. Congratulations to you....


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Apr 10, 2006)

Yep!! That was a good one!!!


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 10, 2006)

wow damn ur good... hey can i post WWI planes?


----------



## Gnomey (Apr 11, 2006)

Would of said so. I will leave the next one open for someone else to post one.


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 11, 2006)

so is it okay for a world war I experiment?


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 13, 2006)

ach nevermind about the world war I thing, heres a new thing


----------



## Wildcat (Apr 13, 2006)

109's perhaps.


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 13, 2006)

damn i didn't think it would be that easy, how could you have guessed?


----------



## v2 (Apr 13, 2006)

Nice one, isn't it?


----------



## Grampa (Apr 13, 2006)

Heinkel He 100


----------



## Wurger (Apr 13, 2006)

It is propaganda only, but the plane is nice

He 100
source unknown.


----------



## v2 (Apr 13, 2006)

Grampa said:


> Heinkel He 100



Yes. He 100 bought by Russians in winter 1939/1940.


----------



## v2 (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok, let's go...


----------



## Henk (Apr 16, 2006)

It looks like a Japanese aircraft. Is it one?

Henk


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 16, 2006)

if not a Jap plane a Fokker perhaps.........


----------



## Wurger (Apr 16, 2006)

A half-breed Fokker.I've already seen somewhere the one but where.It's the question.


----------



## v2 (Apr 16, 2006)

A half- breed; good joke Wurger!


----------



## paaln (Apr 17, 2006)

Is it a Nakajima of some sort?

No, there it is, it's an Italian job!

Ro.51, IMAM (Industrie Meccaniche e Aeronautiche Meridionali). Good old Jane's...


----------



## Henk (Apr 17, 2006)

Sorry no such thing in my Jane's.

Henk


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 17, 2006)

Yup that looks like the original Ro.51 prototype to me...


----------



## v2 (Apr 17, 2006)

Yeessssss. It's first propotype R0.51. Good job Paaln!


----------



## Henk (Apr 17, 2006)

Cheddar you sun of a gun, but you can admit it does look like a jap aircraft. On witch page of Janes did you get that.

Henk


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 18, 2006)

I didnt get it from anywhere, I saw that Paaln said it was the Ro.51 and realised he was right...Had to do a bit of research though cos ive never seen a picture of the first prototype though. The tail fin looks awfully small!


----------



## v2 (Apr 18, 2006)

I've a new one for you...


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 18, 2006)

Some kind of Me-410?


----------



## v2 (Apr 18, 2006)

Try again CC...


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 18, 2006)

Some kind of gun attachment beneath a Ju-87?


----------



## v2 (Apr 18, 2006)

It isn't Ju87.


----------



## Henk (Apr 18, 2006)

It looks like the guns are in the front of the aircraft below the nose or in the nose. Well we know it is German. Is it a He-177 type with those two baby's under the nose or a Henschel 129?

Henk


----------



## v2 (Apr 18, 2006)

OK, He177- good shot Henk!


----------



## Henk (Apr 18, 2006)

V2 do you please have a picture of the whole aircraft for me, I only have a drawing of it?

Henk


----------



## v2 (Apr 18, 2006)

I've got it, but i don't know where. I'll try to find it.


----------



## Wurger (Apr 18, 2006)

Hallo Henk !!!

There some links:
http://www.simviation.com/fsdcbainhe177.htm
http://www.studenten.net/customasp/axl/plane.asp?cat_id=10&ple_id=501&page=0
http://www.silentwall.com/Equipment33.html
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/Bilderseiten/He177-R.htm
I hope they can be useful.
regards


----------



## Henk (Apr 18, 2006)

Thanks Wurger, but I meant whole aircraft of the pic V2 posted above. I do know about the He-177.

Thanks again for the links Wurger I get to see some new pics. 

Henk


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 19, 2006)

look at the wing, it looks like the Early Junkers-style double wing


----------



## Wurger (Apr 19, 2006)

Hi Henk !!!



Henk said:


> Thanks Wurger, but I meant whole aircraft of the pic V2 posted above. I do know about the He-177.
> 
> Thanks again for the links Wurger I get to see some new pics.
> 
> Henk



Sorry Henk.I've misunderstood.


----------



## Wurger (Apr 19, 2006)

Hi Loomaluftwaffe!!!



loomaluftwaffe said:


> look at the wing, it looks like the Early Junkers-style double wing



I've found an other pic of He 177 flaps.They look a bit different from V2's posted shot.Maybe somebody has another pictures of He177 with opened flaps being in view from an other direction.

regards.

He-177 flaps
source unknown.


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 19, 2006)

interesting


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 19, 2006)

loomaluftwaffe said:


> look at the wing, it looks like the Early Junkers-style double wing



Yup, thats why I was thinking Ju-87...

Nice pic of the flaps!


----------



## v2 (Apr 19, 2006)

Yes, but on my foto you can see external part of wing.


----------



## Henk (Apr 19, 2006)

It is cool Wurger, sometimes I do not say it properly.

Nice pic Wurger.

Henk


----------



## Wurger (Apr 19, 2006)

Thanks a lot guys.Besides,in pictures of the He 177 I've seen so far I couldn't notice the two MGs at the front part of its fuselage.The nose part looks quite different.The external wings... hm..., there should be ailerons that look also differen in photos. V2 ,could you post an another shot of this part?It is possible CC is right.


----------



## Henk (Apr 19, 2006)

I got this pic from LuftArchic.de that shows one of those baby's with one of those guns under the nose.

It is just for you Wurger.






Henk


----------



## Wurger (Apr 20, 2006)

Thank you very much Henk.There isn't the photo in a book about He 177 I've had.The two MGs at its front part of fuselage are visible clearly.Could You write what a version of He177 it is? As ailerons are concerned the shot doesn't make it clear how they were mounted.

all the best


----------



## v2 (Apr 20, 2006)

It was He 177 V12 (or A1/U1).


----------



## Henk (Apr 20, 2006)

It is a pleasure Wurger.

Thanks V2.

Henk


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 20, 2006)

v2 said:


> It was He 177 V12 (or A1/U1).


was that the answer?


----------



## Wurger (Apr 21, 2006)

Yes Loomaluftwaffe it is.We should congratulate Henk upon his perceptivness.
So, CONGRATULATION Henk.As for ailerons,at first sight they look like Ju-87 ones, really.But now, I think that V2's pic misled us a bit.The problem is with a line between a wing and an aileron that seems to be a chink.But it is not.In my opinion it is a light on the leading edge of the aileron.
Besides,I've found info that He177A-1/U2 (V12) Zerstrorer code letters GI+BL 
was used to test the twin 30mm Mk101 cannon in June 1942.The plane was painted with RLM 70/71/65 camo.

Once again congratulation for Henk.


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 21, 2006)

yup, congrats Henk

here


----------



## Pisis (Apr 21, 2006)

French definitely.... That ugly must be only French...


----------



## Wurger (Apr 21, 2006)

Judging by its serial and uniforms of people at the left side of the pic it must be English. The early thirties.It looks like a wooden block


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 21, 2006)

Pisis said:


> French definitely.... That ugly must be only French...


Wurger is correct it is English


----------



## red admiral (Apr 21, 2006)

Its the Martin-Baker MB.2

Now, what is this?


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 21, 2006)

nice
prolly a blackburn firebrand

no, a mark of Tempest


----------



## red admiral (Apr 21, 2006)

Neither.


----------



## Wurger (Apr 21, 2006)

It looks like a SeaFury version.


----------



## Wurger (Apr 21, 2006)

It is Tempest Mk.III more known as Hawker F.2/43.The last of the Tempest line that led to the RNAF SeaFury and RAF Fury.The first flight in September of 1944.The aircraft was powered by a Griffon engine.

Bingo?


----------



## red admiral (Apr 21, 2006)

Its not a Tempest Mk III.


----------



## paaln (Apr 21, 2006)

I would say Martin Baker 5, but as there just was another MB, I'm not sure... yes it's the MB5

No it isn't because where is the couterrotating prop... no, it's a Hawker Fury


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 21, 2006)

Early Spiteful prototype?


----------



## v2 (Apr 21, 2006)

Tempest Mk. III with Rolls-Royce Griffon IIB engine (first prototype- LA610), more information on site:
http://hem.passagen.se/chla/mark.htm


----------



## Wurger (Apr 21, 2006)

What did I say? I agree with V2's opinion but Red Admiral doesn't confirme it.A book about Typhoon/Tempest doesn't lie, I think.Besides I've had the same photo.


----------



## paaln (Apr 21, 2006)

http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk/aircraft/typhtem/fury.htm

then http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avcfury.html (espec. chapter 6)


----------



## Henk (Apr 21, 2006)

Thanks guys, I looked at a Ju-87 first and then went through all of my pics of German Aircraft and I finally got it in my Junkers file and thought I will post it and try my luck. 

I looked at the wings, propellers and the position of the guns on the aircraft to see what kind of aircraft it may be.

I have German aircraft pics not British, I wish I did to be able to guess this one. l    

Henk


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 22, 2006)

both websites concerning that british plane are correct in that it's LA610, technically she started as a Tempest, but was then re-designated a Fury Prototype, i still considder her a tempest however............


----------



## Wurger (Apr 22, 2006)

I'm thinking in the same way as The Lanc.


----------



## red admiral (Apr 22, 2006)

It is LA610 but with a Sabre VII engine not Griffin. Halfway Tempest/Fury but the wing radiators mean more Fury.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 22, 2006)

It had the wing radiators when made as the Tempest III, it was the Tempest III that led onto (and indeed later became) a Fury prototype..........


----------



## Wurger (Apr 22, 2006)

There is a photo with a short description I've found.

source unknown.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 22, 2006)

see what i mean, she started out as the Tempest III, but was later Re-designated as a Fury prototype......


----------



## Wurger (Apr 22, 2006)

Yes Lanc,I agree with you entirely.Byt the problem is that Red Admiral doesn't agree with my answer I've posted erlier.


----------



## paaln (Apr 22, 2006)

There were no such as a Tempest III, LA610 was supposed to be one, but plans changed during production.

From one of the links I posted before:
"The jump from Tempest Mark I to Tempest Mark V begs the question of what happened to Marks II, III, and IV. Mark II was a Centaurus-powered Tempest, and as will be explained in the next section, it did reach production. Marks III and IV were to be powered by different variants of the Rolls-Royce Griffon V-12 engine. One Mark III was actually built, though as will be described not as a Tempest, while the Mark IV was cancelled."

"The second prototype (LA610) actually began life as a prototype for the Griffon-powered Tempest Mark III, mentioned earlier. It was fitted with the new wing and raised cockpit, a Griffon 85, and a Rotol contra-rotating propeller. The contra-rotating propeller featured twin three-bladed propellers, and was implemented to allow optimum transfer of power from the big engine without requiring a propeller of extraordinary width. 

It first flew on 27 November 1944, and was shortly thereafter given the name "Fury", following the Hawker biplane fighter of the same name of the 1930s. The navalized variant of the TLF logically became the "Sea Fury"."

TLF being Tempest Light Fighter, Camm's Improved Tempest program. Turned into P.1026.

Looks like we're talking past each other or something, and that what we believe about this project is based on what sources we read first or put more faith in... 

What I read into all this is that Tempest III didn't happen. LA610 was supposed to be a III, but plans changed, and it was built to P.1026 specs and became Fury. I'll be hard to convince otherwise


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Apr 22, 2006)

dude it even says in your quote that it started as the Tempest III!! she was originally the Tempest III yes? she was then Re-designated as a Hawker Fury Prototype.........


----------



## paaln (Apr 22, 2006)

Now, here is an example on how to read different things into a piece of text. What I read into this is that III was supposed to be built, but somewhere along the line, specs changed/minds changed.

> it even says in your quote that it started as the Tempest III!!

On paper, yes. It doesn't say III was actually built. "Hey, Syd, now we've built the Tempest V, I, II, VI, let's finally make a III." "Ok, but I have this idea where we remove the wing center section to make it lighter. Let's take this III drawing we just started on, put some lightened wings on it, we can still use the Griffon we had planned for III, raise the cockpit a bit... hey, let's call it Fury".

>"she was originally the Tempest III yes?"

Yes, on paper. I don't parse this text into meaning that mk.III was built.

>she was then Re-designated as a Hawker Fury Prototype

It looks like we can agree it is a Fury. It looks like we can agree on its origin back to something called a mk.III. It looks like we have to agree to disagree on where a Mk.III stops and a Fury begins... 

I'm not a historian, I tend to stick with the sources I've grown to trust, like good old Air International. I don't have Jane's from the actual years, it is not mentioned in my -45 edition, so I tend to fall into the trap of believing what the sources I trust say, and in this case they say III wasn't built, it's a paper plane that grew up to be a Fury in different shapes with different enginges...

NEXT QUIZ! Please!!


----------



## v2 (Apr 22, 2006)

Ok, a simple one:


----------



## Smokey (Apr 22, 2006)

Dornier Do 17 V-1 Flying Pencil prototype


----------



## v2 (Apr 22, 2006)

Uffffff- good answer Smokey!!!


----------



## red admiral (Apr 23, 2006)

What about this then?


----------



## Wildcat (Apr 23, 2006)

Looks like a Hawker Sea Fury to me.


----------



## paaln (Apr 23, 2006)

initial hunch is the Firebrand


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 23, 2006)

looks more like a Fury/sea Fury


----------



## Pisis (Apr 23, 2006)

Hawker Sea Fury Prototype


----------



## paaln (Apr 23, 2006)

but the rudder is so "square-ish", the Hawkers were much rounder. The Blackburns were squarer, a Firebrand, or rather a Firecrest, or a prototype that i haven't seen and can't find any pix of, ya-5.


----------



## Blenheim (Apr 24, 2006)

Blackburn Firebrand, not sure which Mk.

Blenheim


----------



## red admiral (Apr 24, 2006)

Paaln, correct. It is a B.48 Firecrest.


----------



## Pisis (Apr 24, 2006)

OK, the next one is very easy...


----------



## Wurger (Apr 24, 2006)

I think it could be one of the Letov aircraft.


----------



## v2 (Apr 24, 2006)

Good idea Wurger. It's Letov S328.


----------



## Wurger (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks V2 !!!


----------



## Pisis (Apr 24, 2006)

Yup that is.


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 25, 2006)

fookker C.V? Swordfish?


----------



## Pisis (Apr 25, 2006)

v2 said:


> It's Letov Š.328.


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 25, 2006)

lol missed that post
Hint: ITS FRENCH, im not kidding


----------



## v2 (Apr 25, 2006)

You missed more Looma, I think....
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/1737-aircraft-identification-v-15.html


----------



## Wurger (Apr 25, 2006)

Try to this guys.It should be easy for you.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 25, 2006)

PZL P.11?


----------



## Wurger (Apr 25, 2006)

It is not P-11.


----------



## v2 (Apr 25, 2006)




----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 28, 2006)

no idea


----------



## Wurger (Apr 28, 2006)

Don't break down mates.It is easy.Try again.


----------



## v2 (Apr 28, 2006)

It's true. Easy


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Apr 28, 2006)

Polish?


----------



## Wurger (Apr 28, 2006)

Unfortunately, it's not Polish.


----------



## Bullockracing (Apr 29, 2006)

Looks like a Lockheed something...


----------



## Wurger (Apr 30, 2006)

I'm afraid it's not


----------



## Grampa (Apr 30, 2006)

Dornier Do 26 for the DHL perhaps? 
Data of the Do 26D (V6)
Power plant:4 x 880 hp Jumo 205D
Seats: 4 + 10-12
Wing span: 30 m
Length: 24.6 m
Wing area: 120 m
Weight loaded: 20965 kg
Max speed: 324 at 2.600 m
Service ceiling: 4500 m
Range 4795 km
Arament: 20 mm MG 151 in bow turret, 2x 7,9 mm MG 15 in waist position and a third MG 15 in the rear floor of the hull.
Nuber in service:6
First flight: 21 May 1938
History: The Dornier Do 26 Whas designed as a Mail Carrier in the trans-Atlantic ocean for the DLH whit 4 passenger, later version took 6. Luftwaffe Converted it later to a Do 26D standard as a armed reconnaissance and transport aircraft to the Kü F1 Gr 406 division (later 506). Two were destroyed by RAAF Hurricane During the Denmark/Norway campaigns, and the remainer were ewentually withdrawn to communication duties.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Apr 30, 2006)

Some kind of Curtiss aircraft?


----------



## paaln (Apr 30, 2006)

Some kind of Howard aircraft?

The suspense is killing me...


----------



## Wurger (Apr 30, 2006)

No guys, I'm still waiting for the correct answer.


----------



## paaln (Apr 30, 2006)

Loire 4_?


----------



## Wurger (May 1, 2006)

No, it isn't. To make it easier it's was made in 1937.


----------



## Wildcat (May 1, 2006)

Some kind of Polikarpov?


----------



## Wurger (May 1, 2006)

The heading is quite good Wildcat.But it isn't Russian plane.


----------



## v2 (May 1, 2006)

Bez podpowiedzi nie ruszą...


----------



## Wurger (May 1, 2006)

What kind of clue?    
Maybe,it's a Czech plane.


----------



## paaln (May 1, 2006)

aero 102

phew. 

that was a good one


----------



## Wurger (May 1, 2006)

I've alredy thought that no one would guess.
Yes,it's Aero 102 - an engine 671kW max.speed 434 km/h
Good work Paaln.    
Congratulation.


----------



## Pisis (May 2, 2006)

DAMN! I missed it!  
Because it was a Czechoslovak plane, I have the right to post a new one.   
This is really easy...


----------



## red admiral (May 2, 2006)

Westland Wapiti


----------



## Pisis (May 2, 2006)

Mk.IIa, to be even more precise.


----------



## Wildcat (May 3, 2006)

Here's one for you guy's.Sorry the pic isn't very clear, but that just makes it harder!!


----------



## Pisis (May 3, 2006)

Hmmm, looks like three captured Wellingtons...


----------



## Wildcat (May 3, 2006)

Nope.


----------



## Pisis (May 3, 2006)

B-17 then...


----------



## Glider (May 3, 2006)

I admit that they look like the Vultee Vengence to me but how the Germans got hold of them I have no idea.


----------



## Wildcat (May 4, 2006)

Well your right Glider! They were painted up to look like Stukas for a movie back in WWII.


----------



## Pisis (May 4, 2006)

Stukas!?!?!


----------



## Wurger (May 4, 2006)

It hasn't been the first time when they used non-German aircrafts for movies.In 1940,as I remember,they used AVIA B.534 as the Polish fighters.The " Kampfgeschwader Lutzow" was about The September campaign against Poland in 1939.It is a bit strange bacause they had some P-11c and P-7a. at that time.


----------



## Pisis (May 4, 2006)

Who used Avias B-534 when they are even older then P.11? And there isn't that much B.534 operational, I only know about one...


----------



## Wurger (May 4, 2006)

Pisis said:


> Who used Avias B-534 when they are even older then P.11? And there isn't that much B.534 operational, I only know about one...



In 1940 the German of course !


----------



## v2 (May 4, 2006)

Kampfgeschwader Lützow - (Germany "Lutzow Bomber Squadron"; Tobis 1940, 97m) D : Hans Bertram. Marietheres Angerpointner, Hermann Braun = Unteroffizier Eckhart, Christian Keissler = Oberst Mithoff, Hannes Keppler, Heinz Welzel = Unteroffizier Paulsen. Screenplay: Bertram Wolf Neumeister. The sequel to D III.88 made by the same company; the cast is almost the same but the director different. The two friends, Eckhart and Paulsen, are now attached to a bomber squadron when the Luftwaffe is in battle order and their wing is ordered to fly against Poland, France, and Great Britain. The two are also in love with the same girl. Another Nazi propaganda movie with a poor scenario, but its quality is commendable — nice aerial photography and music, beautiful aircraft, no mock-ups but the real things. He.111 is the real star, shown in detail outside and inside; the bombers are protected by rare Bf.109 Dora, attacked by B-534 (ex-Czech, for Polish PZL P.11) and ex-French Curtiss H75. Even the Polish planes burning on airfields are authentic! Director Bertram was the right choice for an aviation movie, a flyer, a former aviation adviser to China, and an aviation writer. 
AIRCRAFT : Avia B-534; Curtiss H75A ; He.111H/B and 115; Bf.109D; PZL P-37B.


----------



## Glider (May 4, 2006)

I admit to cheating a bit on this and only including part of a plane.


----------



## Wurger (May 4, 2006)

Das ist gut arbeit V2.   
(well done)


----------



## Gnomey (May 4, 2006)

Interesting v2!


----------



## Glider (May 4, 2006)

Do I have to say that its not a V2


----------



## Wildcat (May 4, 2006)

Airspeed Oxford.


----------



## Wurger (May 5, 2006)

Glider said:


> Do I have to say that its not a V2



No Glider You don't.Unfortunately,both your and my posts have been sent almost simultaneously.But You were a bit faster.8) 8) 8) 
I agree with Wildcat.It looks like Airspeed Oxford.


----------



## Glider (May 5, 2006)

Your both right


----------



## v2 (May 9, 2006)

A simply one...


----------



## Pisis (May 10, 2006)

Oh that. I didn't realize it was a German propaganda. Now I understand...


----------



## Pisis (May 10, 2006)

Bf 110


----------



## v2 (May 10, 2006)

Bad shot, Pisis... try again


----------



## Pisis (May 10, 2006)

Mosquito... no
Me 410... noo!
Potez 630... unprobable

Then I don't know!


----------



## Gnomey (May 10, 2006)

Looks a bit like a Ju-88 to me.


----------



## Wurger (May 10, 2006)

Judging by the visible partially elements of undercarriage it could be He 111 used for test the jet engine.But where is the ventral gunner's gondola?Unless it was removed.


----------



## Smokey (May 10, 2006)

I agree with Wurger, it could be the heinkel He 111 being used to test the HeS 8 jet engine by Von Ohain


----------



## v2 (May 10, 2006)

:=D>: You're right guys. It's HeS 8A mounted on He 111 flying laboratory for tests.


----------



## pbfoot (May 10, 2006)

and here is my entry


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 10, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> and here is my entry


 FLEET FORT!


----------



## pbfoot (May 10, 2006)

correct should've figured out you'd bang that off with your time there


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 10, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> correct should've figured out you'd bang that off with your time there


  I was posted at Fleet industries, For Erie when I was living there - do you know if they're still in business?


----------



## pbfoot (May 10, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:


> I was posted at Fleet industries, For Erie when I was living there - do you know if they're still in business?


The employees are going on its own they closed down Fleet about 2 years ago but the employees took over and are bidding on some contracts with some success


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 10, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> The employees are going on its own they closed down Fleet about 2 years ago but the employees took over and are bidding on some contracts with some success


 WOW Very Interesting - they built the nose for the P-3...


----------



## Smokey (May 11, 2006)

ID please?


----------



## Glider (May 11, 2006)

Prototype FW61? Same layout but with a different engine


----------



## Smokey (May 11, 2006)

It's similar to the Focke Achgelis but nope


----------



## v2 (May 11, 2006)

Weir W-6


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 11, 2006)

Here's one


----------



## Glider (May 11, 2006)

K7 ON A PAIR OF PRAM WHEELS


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 11, 2006)

Glider said:


> K7 ON A PAIR OF PRAM WHEELS



hehehehe.......No...


----------



## Pisis (May 13, 2006)

don't have no clue


----------



## Glider (May 13, 2006)

I admit to not knowing what it is. No engine, so a sailplane of some description but the wheels are wrong. We tend to come down pretty hard and to have small wheels like that and the weight of the pilot in front your are asking for a ground loop. 
Landing out, a not uncommon experience would also be tricky with an undercarridge that would snag on any crops or long grass.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 13, 2006)

Glider said:


> I admit to not knowing what it is. No engine, so a sailplane of some description but the wheels are wrong. We tend to come down pretty hard and to have small wheels like that and the weight of the pilot in front your are asking for a ground loop.
> Landing out, a not uncommon experience would also be tricky with an undercarridge that would snag on any crops or long grass.


 I have to say you're getting close!


----------



## Tiger (May 13, 2006)

Taylorcraft TG-6/ST-100? or a TG-5 maybe?


----------



## Bullockracing (May 13, 2006)

Frankfort TG-1a?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 14, 2006)

Tiger said:


> Taylorcraft TG-6/ST-100? or a TG-5 maybe?


 Nope


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 14, 2006)

Bullockracing said:


> Frankfort TG-1a?


 nope


----------



## paaln (May 14, 2006)

Time for some hints, maybe? Was it a one-off? Undercarriage looks so tiny.

That cabin looks like it could carry a few people.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 14, 2006)

paaln said:


> Time for some hints, maybe? Was it a one-off? Undercarriage looks so tiny.
> 
> That cabin looks like it could carry a few people.



It was American, built in the late 1930s, it started life as a "one off," and the company that built it also made conversion kits for tractors...


----------



## Glider (May 14, 2006)

I am afraid that my White Flag has gone up.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 14, 2006)

I'll let this fester a little longer and see if there's anyone else who could identify it..


----------



## Bullockracing (May 14, 2006)

Franklin PS-2? I-26?


----------



## Bullockracing (May 14, 2006)

Uncle...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (May 15, 2006)

this one's really getting to you aint it bull


----------



## Bullockracing (May 15, 2006)

Heck yeah, whoopin my @$$. It's hard enough to find stuff on gliders, and my personal library doesn't have hardly anything on them...


----------



## Bullockracing (May 15, 2006)

Piper XLNP-1.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 15, 2006)

OK - here it is

A Funk B75 conversion - eventually they put the engine back on it abd it became a B 85 - cool airplane for its day....

http://www.funkflyers.org/company.htm


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (May 16, 2006)

Good Lord


----------



## Glider (May 16, 2006)

Cannot say that I am suprised that is wasn't a success.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 16, 2006)

Actually I think Funk built about 300 planes. They looked like flying bassett hounds...


----------



## Wurger (May 18, 2006)

It has been really difficult to guess.Maybe this will be easier.


----------



## Wildcat (May 18, 2006)

Some kind of Miles aircraft?


----------



## Wurger (May 18, 2006)

No,it's not I'm afraid.


----------



## red admiral (May 18, 2006)

Looks like a Bf 108 with a radial engine, but its not.

Its some French type I can't remember the name of...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 18, 2006)

Nord 1000


----------



## Wurger (May 19, 2006)

No guys


----------



## Bullockracing (May 19, 2006)

Thanks for putting me out of my misery, FBJ. Now Wurger's taking a turn on me. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 20, 2006)

Yeah it almost does look like a Bf-108.

Whatever it is, I can not find it in my books. I think it is a Russian aircraft though. The engine cowling looks Russian.


----------



## Bullockracing (May 20, 2006)

It almost looks like a dual seat ryan or something... Cannot find in my books, either, Adler. I guess I have an excuse to buy some more.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 20, 2006)

Yeah mine are quite old, it is time to buy some new ones.


----------



## paaln (May 20, 2006)

Yak-13


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 20, 2006)

I think you're right!





1000photos


----------



## Bullockracing (May 20, 2006)

Good show paaln!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 21, 2006)

Damn I new it was Russian! I just could not find it in the book to verify it.


----------



## Wurger (May 21, 2006)

Hi guys !!!
Sorry for my absence some days.Unfortunately I was working for my daily bread.Judging by yours posts it wasn't easy,strange.The plane looks really like Bf 108.However,DerAdlerIstGelandet was so close initially.But the winner is ... Paaln of course.   
   Congratulation.It is Yak 13.


----------



## v2 (May 21, 2006)




----------



## paaln (May 21, 2006)

oh, there already was a new one up... saving this one for later, then


----------



## paaln (May 21, 2006)

arado 240?


----------



## v2 (May 21, 2006)

nope...


----------



## Wurger (May 21, 2006)

It is a prototype of Russian BB-22bis or Yak-4 as you wish.The plane no.1002 was mounted by No.1 factory in March 1940.Equipped with M-105 engine, max speed - 574 km/h.

P.S BB stands for Bliznij Bombardirowszczik ( a short range bomber )


----------



## v2 (May 21, 2006)

Good shot Wurger...


----------



## paaln (May 21, 2006)

Since I was beaten to posting the new quiz earlier tonight, I'll sneak it in now instead.


----------



## Wurger (May 23, 2006)

a Whirlpool fridge ?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 23, 2006)

it's de havilland....


----------



## paaln (May 23, 2006)

no, and no.


----------



## red admiral (May 23, 2006)

Napier Dagger engine and Miles?


----------



## paaln (May 26, 2006)




----------



## red admiral (May 27, 2006)

Airspeed Courier 5 of which I found this interesting picture;





http://www.unrealaircraft.com/forever/images/cobham.jpeg


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 27, 2006)

Are you sure those are the same planes. The one in the bottom picture looks almost like it has a radial engine.


----------



## paaln (May 27, 2006)

Most Couriers had a Lynx IV C 240hp radial, this one A.S. 5C (c/n 20) had a Rapier IV 325hp. (Courier was the first British type to have a retractable gear.) They all ended up with a taxi company, being fitted to take Lynx IV's, and also fixed undercarriages.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 28, 2006)

Ah makes sense now.


----------



## red admiral (May 28, 2006)

What is this?


----------



## Henk (May 28, 2006)

Well it is Russian that is a fact but dam I have no pic or cant find anything in my books.

Henk


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 28, 2006)

Is it a I-30 or Yak-7A which were developments of the Yak-3. I really highly doubt the Yak-7A because it did not have a bubble type canopy.


----------



## paaln (May 28, 2006)

MiG I-225 (5A), fastest Soviet piston


----------



## red admiral (May 28, 2006)

It is the MiG I-225.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 28, 2006)

Cool


----------



## red admiral (May 28, 2006)

This one is harder I think. Unfortunately I've never found a photo or another drawing.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (May 29, 2006)

i'd guess it's italian.........


----------



## Wurger (May 29, 2006)

Hum...the Italian secret project, possible, it looks like pasta with tomatoes.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 29, 2006)

Hmm I never even seen that one before.


----------



## cheddar cheese (May 29, 2006)

I dunno if it is Italian, although it does bear some resemblances to the Stipa...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 29, 2006)

Really got me on this one.


----------



## red admiral (May 29, 2006)

It is Italian, along Stipa lines...


----------



## paaln (May 29, 2006)

Stipa 203?


----------



## red admiral (May 30, 2006)

Yes, but before I've seen it called 404 instead. It was a bomber in competition with P.108 that was rejected through expected insufficient maneuverability.


----------



## Pisis (May 30, 2006)

That's wicked...


----------



## Wurger (May 31, 2006)

why ?


----------



## paaln (Jun 3, 2006)

Here's an easy one, since the last few has been rather difficult


----------



## Wurger (Jun 3, 2006)

I think it is Fairey Barracuda-II


----------



## paaln (Jun 5, 2006)

I think it is Fairey Barracuda-too


----------



## v2 (Jun 5, 2006)

I've got easy one too...


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Jun 5, 2006)

It looks like a wierd Storch


----------



## v2 (Jun 5, 2006)

nope


----------



## Wildcat (Jun 6, 2006)

PZL something ?


----------



## v2 (Jun 6, 2006)

hehehe PZL....nope.


----------



## Wurger (Jun 6, 2006)

I have no idea.


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Jun 6, 2006)

German?


----------



## Wurger (Jun 6, 2006)

It is possible but it looks to me like a Czech or Russian one


----------



## v2 (Jun 6, 2006)

rare bird, that's all...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 6, 2006)

Kokusai Ki-76 "Stella"


----------



## v2 (Jun 6, 2006)

Good shot Flyboy! It is!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 6, 2006)

v2 said:


> Good shot Flyboy! It is!



Thanks!


----------



## v2 (Jun 6, 2006)

And this one?


----------



## Wurger (Jun 6, 2006)

A captured La...?


----------



## v2 (Jun 6, 2006)

Yes, but which one?


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Jun 7, 2006)

judging by the Canopy, It's an La-5F/FN/7


----------



## v2 (Jun 7, 2006)

Yes.... LA 5FN


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Jun 8, 2006)

oops, delete this post plz


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Jun 8, 2006)

naxt


----------



## delcyros (Jun 8, 2006)

Extremely nice plane.
Did it received tests? Or are the speed figures extrapolated?
Cheers!


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Jun 8, 2006)

I don't know much about it either, I think it was an experiment


----------



## v2 (Jun 8, 2006)

1 - Lа-5FN, on tests in Rechlin (1944),
2 - Lа-5 (1942),
3 - Lа-5F (1943),
4 - Lа-5FN (1943),
5 - FW 190A-8 (1943),
6 - Bf 109G-6 (1943).


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Jun 8, 2006)

nice chart, now anyone who knows or has an idea of what plane i posted?


----------



## v2 (Jun 29, 2006)

?


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 29, 2006)

tough one as all the Hawker Bi planes looked the same pre-war  with that exaust though it has to be the Hardy or Audax (the Herdy was a development of the Audax)........


----------



## Smokey (Jun 29, 2006)

loomaluftwaffe said:


> nice chart, now anyone who knows or has an idea of what plane i posted?



Sukhoi Su 1 or 3


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Jun 29, 2006)

correct, Su-3


----------



## mosquitoman (Jun 29, 2006)

Hawker Demon?


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 29, 2006)

na the gunner's position was totally different in the demon, i'm sticking with my other guesses........


----------



## v2 (Jun 29, 2006)

Hawker Audax its a good answer.


----------



## red admiral (Jun 29, 2006)

Something harder for you guys;


----------



## v2 (Jul 7, 2006)

White Flag


----------



## Smokey (Jul 7, 2006)

A paper project tailless version of the XB-15?


----------



## red admiral (Jul 7, 2006)

Its the Boeing 306 project.

This is the A version, there were also fighter, transport and seaplane versions under the same name.


----------



## v2 (Jul 16, 2006)




----------



## pbfoot (Jul 16, 2006)

rogozarski IK3


----------



## v2 (Jul 16, 2006)

Good shot pbfoot and new one:


----------



## Neilster (Jul 17, 2006)

It looks like a Cierva but not exactly so my guess would be a Focke-Wulf 30.

Cheers, Neilster


----------



## v2 (Jul 17, 2006)

Nope try again...


----------



## v2 (Jul 22, 2006)

v2 said:


> Good shot pbfoot and new one:



another pic....


----------



## Grampa (Jul 22, 2006)

Kayaba Ka-1
Type: rotary-wing spotter/liaison/patrol aircraft
Powerplant: 240-hp Argus As 10c 8-cylinder inverted V piston engine
Performance: max speed 165 km/h; crusing 115 km/h; service celling 3.5 km; range 280 km
Weight: empty 775 kg; max 1170 kg
Dimension: Rotor diameter 12.2 m; Length 9.2 m; rotor disc area 116.9 m
Armament: 2x60 depth charges
Operator: Japanese Army


----------



## v2 (Jul 22, 2006)

YES  Good job Grampa !


----------



## Neilster (Jul 27, 2006)

That isn't an Argus inverted V-twin in post #697. That makes things a bit harder. I wants me money back! 

Cheers, Neilster


----------



## v2 (Jul 31, 2006)

Hello... a new one:


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jul 31, 2006)

Mig-1?


----------



## v2 (Aug 1, 2006)

Nope


----------



## Bullockracing (Aug 5, 2006)

Is that the P-37 prototype?


----------



## v2 (Aug 6, 2006)

Nope


----------



## loomaluftwaffe (Aug 7, 2006)

sU-1/3/5? MiG-3? Yak-1/3/7/9?


----------



## v2 (Aug 7, 2006)

No, it isn't Russian....


----------



## BlackWolf3945 (Aug 7, 2006)

Arsenal VG.33...


Fade to Black...


----------



## v2 (Aug 8, 2006)

YES- great job BlackWolf3945!


----------



## BlackWolf3945 (Aug 8, 2006)

It's been a long time since I've looked at this thread, so my apologies if this has been here before. I've removed two markings that would make this one rather obvious, but will post the unaltered photo after it's identified...







Fade to Black...


----------



## BlackWolf3945 (Aug 9, 2006)

No takers? Can't be that difficult... 


Fade to Black...


----------



## JeffK (Aug 10, 2006)

Is it a Vought SBU?


----------



## BlackWolf3945 (Aug 11, 2006)

Nope...


Fade to Black...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Aug 12, 2006)

Naval Aircraft Factory OSN-1 or O2N-1


----------



## v2 (Sep 11, 2006)

FLYBOYJ said:



> Naval Aircraft Factory OSN-1 or O2N-1


Are you sure?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Sep 11, 2006)

Pretty much...


----------



## v2 (Oct 12, 2006)

ok, let's go...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 13, 2006)

Hmm kind of hard to tell from that angle. 

Could it be a PZL P-23. Cant really see the landing gear or the underside to tell.


----------



## v2 (Oct 13, 2006)

Nope. It isn't polish plane...


----------



## Krabat42 (Oct 20, 2006)

Looks russian. A Su-2 maybe?


----------



## v2 (Oct 20, 2006)

Yes Krabat- good shoot !


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 20, 2006)

I knew it was eastern european.


----------



## BlackWolf3945 (Oct 22, 2006)

Sorry folks... I forgot I'd posted an image here... (which subsequently disappeared)

Anyhoo, here it is again... this time the unaltered image...








'Twas put forth that this might be an NAF OSN-1 or O2N-1... 'tis actually the Stearman XOSS-1...


Fade to Black...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 22, 2006)

It is a Stearman XOSS-1


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 22, 2006)

as he said in his post


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 22, 2006)

Oops I did not read that part.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 22, 2006)

Here is one. I actually expect it to be pretty easy to figure out.


----------



## jaann (Oct 22, 2006)

Italian airplane ... hard to say wich one...but italian 100 %


----------



## BlackWolf3945 (Oct 23, 2006)

Looks like an RWD-8...


Fade to Black...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 23, 2006)

jaann said:


> Italian airplane ... hard to say wich one...but italian 100 %



Nope the country is several thousands of Kilometers away from Italy, so it is 0% Italian.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 23, 2006)

BlackWolf3945 said:


> Looks like an RWD-8...
> 
> 
> Fade to Black...



Yeap thats it. I said it would be easy to identify.


----------



## v2 (Oct 23, 2006)

I've something for you guys...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 23, 2006)

Well it looks like a Jermolajewv Jer-2 (DB-240) or a Mig-5.


----------



## v2 (Oct 23, 2006)

Mig- 5; good job Adler


----------



## Krabat42 (Oct 24, 2006)

Yeah, the TIS and DIS were so elegant looking aircraft. Resembling somewhat the lines of the later DH Hornet which is my favourite twin engined fighter.


----------



## v2 (Oct 30, 2006)

A new one...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 30, 2006)

oh i suck at italian planes, something along the lines of an R2000?


----------



## cheddar cheese (Oct 30, 2006)

Re.2000


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 30, 2006)

damn i'm close 8)


----------



## cheddar cheese (Oct 30, 2006)

To be specific, its the Reggiane Re.2000 Catapultabile ('Cat') serial no. MM8281.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Oct 30, 2006)

Yea, that the one PD said several months ago was so ugly they were actually tossing it overboard!


----------



## cheddar cheese (Oct 30, 2006)

Despite the fact its a pretty airplane 8)


----------



## v2 (Oct 30, 2006)

... more pics Re2000
Reggiane Re. 2000 Photoarchive


----------



## Kiwikid (Oct 31, 2006)

Italian aircraft carrier Aquila - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Intended for catapault launch from the Italian WW2 aircraft carrier Aquila


----------



## v2 (Nov 7, 2006)

Especially for you, guys:


----------



## paaln (Nov 7, 2006)

KOR-1 (Beriev Be-2)


----------



## v2 (Nov 8, 2006)

paaln


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 8, 2006)

Here's one...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 8, 2006)

Hmm got me beat on that one. I wanna say some kind of racing aircraft built by Lockheed or Hughes.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 8, 2006)

You're close - I'll give a hint. It is a racer and proposed military plane.


----------



## Krabat42 (Nov 10, 2006)

The Hughes H-1? But it wasn't proposed for military, wasn't it?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 10, 2006)

Krabat42 said:


> The Hughes H-1? But it wasn't proposed for military, wasn't it?



Nope...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 10, 2006)

I dont know got me beat on this one.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 10, 2006)

I'll see if we have any other takers - this one and its designer have an interesting history....


----------



## paaln (Nov 10, 2006)

It's at Patterson, right?, but is it a Wedell-Williams? The pix I remember of those planes had the wheels in the undercarriage enclosed, but this one has open wheels...


----------



## pbfoot (Nov 10, 2006)

How about Roscoe Turner


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 10, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> How about Roscoe Turner


Close!



paaln said:


> It's at Patterson, right?, but is it a Wedell-Williams? The pix I remember of those planes had the wheels in the undercarriage enclosed, but this one has open wheels...


Close enough! It is a Wedell-Williams - XP-34. He was trying to sell a retractable version of his racer to the US Army Air Corps.

Here's a bio about Jame Wedell

Jim Wedell

James Wedell

BTW - that's him in the white coveralls...


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 11, 2006)

Great FBJ!


----------



## paaln (Nov 11, 2006)

It's an interesting pic, so far I've only seen line drawings of it, and i discarded it as the correct answer because I thought the tail fin on the drawing was "taller" than this one appears to be, and I also thought it hadn't left the drawing board.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 12, 2006)

BlackWolf3945 said:


> That was my reasoning as well... the XP-34, according to every source I've come across, was never built.
> 
> What's the source of this image, J?
> 
> ...



Actually the XP-34 would of been the same aircraft depicted there. Wedell never delivered the drawings requested by the Air Corps...


----------



## paaln (Nov 12, 2006)

here's another shot of that hangar


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 12, 2006)

BlackWolf3945 said:


> It's a Wedell-Williams racer... but which one? Could it be a modified Model 45? All photos I've seen of that type show a different cowling... and the main gear looks somewhat different as well.
> 
> So, again, I ask... what's the source of this image? Also, do you have an un-altered version of this image? I'd like to see what's written on the hangar.
> 
> ...



It is a model 45, and I think there were 2 built and both were altered during their final construction and development, here the original photo, I altered the writing on the hangar to avoid "hints."






Link: Wedell-Williams XP-34

"In 1934 Wedell-Williams won the design competition to build a prototype of the next-generation fighter plane for the army. Dubbed the XP-34, *it was a direct descendant of the "45," except that it was larger and designed for two machine guns.* The project had progressed to the point of final wind tunnel drawings at the time of Jimmie Wedell’s death. The project slowly withered and died after this tragedy, a combination of Harry Williams’s apathy and the reluctance of the army to proceed without the plane’s main designer." 

I believe that aircraft was being tweaked by Wedell for the XP-34 program and was basically becoming a prototype which was cancelled shortly after, that's why the difference in the cowl and landing gear. Wedell's death didn't help matters either...


----------



## paaln (Nov 12, 2006)

Cool, the text I've read before during this search, but the Wasp&Hornet part of the pic led me to this higher res of the pic plus presumably another pic of the plane, look at items 17 and 12 on this link
LOUISiana Digital Library : Search Results


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 12, 2006)

Great find - I think there are only a handful of photos of the Model 45 (XP-34, XP-34 prototype or predecessor). It seems Wedell was really experimenting with this aircraft, not only for racing but for an Army contract.


----------



## Krabat42 (Nov 13, 2006)

Yeah, that was a tough one. Good find.  I was thinking about some Howard DGA...


----------



## v2 (Nov 24, 2006)

What was unusual in this plane?


----------



## Glider (Nov 24, 2006)

Was it developed into a Biplane ?


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 25, 2006)

it's american, i'll wager Grumman........


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 25, 2006)

Yeap looks like it is a modified Grumman FF-1 turned into a monoplane. It even has the belly and retracable landing gear. Only difference is the missing lower wing and the the tail is different.


----------



## v2 (Nov 25, 2006)

nope... try again.


----------



## CaricatureAircraft (Nov 25, 2006)

Well, with a belly like that, if it's not a Grumman then it's a Curtiss.

The nearest I can think of is the Curtiss XF12C-1 which first flew in July 1933 with a Wright R-1510-92 radial. Originally designed as a 2-seat fighter.
It was later re-engined with a Wright SR-1820-80 when tested by the USN in October later that year.
It was redesignated the XS4C-1 in December 1933 when the 2-seat fighter role was dropped, and then redesignated yet again in January 1934 to the XSBC-1 when it became a scout-bomber. It later crashed during a demonstration in June 1934.


----------



## v2 (Nov 25, 2006)




----------



## Matt308 (Nov 25, 2006)

How about this one?


----------



## v2 (Nov 25, 2006)

B-18 ?


----------



## pbfoot (Nov 25, 2006)

fokker TV1


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 25, 2006)

No. And no.


----------



## CaricatureAircraft (Nov 25, 2006)

Can't quite see the rear fuselage that well, so first thoughts are either a Maryland or Baltimore...


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 25, 2006)

Getting REAL close.


----------



## CaricatureAircraft (Nov 25, 2006)

Yep, think BlackWolf has hit the nail squarely on the head there.... 8) 

National Museum of the USAF - Fact Sheet Media


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 27, 2006)

BlackWolf3945 said:


> Stearman XA-21 (2nd Form)
> 
> 
> Fade to Black...



Blackwolf got it. Excellent. Curtis XA-21 with streamlined cockpit.


----------



## HealzDevo (Nov 28, 2006)

I have one for you. It is a USA Aircraft. It didn't see service. See whether you know what this one is...


----------



## Gnomey (Nov 28, 2006)

McDonnell XP-67 "Bat"


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 28, 2006)

Yep


----------



## HealzDevo (Nov 28, 2006)

Got it quicker than I thought you would. What gave it away? Couldn't have been the caption... Perhaps it was saying that it was US and that it never saw service...


----------



## Gnomey (Nov 29, 2006)

I have seen that picture before and so it was easy enough to find again (I remembered the site I saw it on) so I just went there...

Anyone can post one as I don't have one.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 29, 2006)

it's been done before and is one of the better known prototypes......


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 29, 2006)

Well it had US roundels on it and it is a rather obvious prototype aircraft. Here are a few more pics of it that I have on my computer.


----------



## Matt308 (Nov 29, 2006)

And c'mon. It screams American.

6 - 37mm cannon.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 29, 2006)

she's one damn fine lookin' aircraft too.......


----------



## Gnomey (Nov 29, 2006)

Yep she is!

The XP-67 was a somewhat revolutionary design by McDonnell Aircraft. It used two turbo-charged engines whose exhaust was ejected at the rear of the engine nacelle, providing some additional thrust. The pilot was to sit in a pressurized cabin, and the plane's armament was very heavy for a fighter (six 37mm cannon in one prototype, and a 75mm cannon in another prototype). When viewed from above the aircraft had an unusual profile, in that the engine nacelles and fuselage were shaped to provide true aerofoil sections throughout. The first flight was made in January 1944, with testing undertaken later that year. Performance proved to be far from satisfactory, and modifications were made to improve certain stability problems. Before official trials could resume, however, the prototype was extensively damaged by fire and the program was abandoned.

McDonnell XP-67

Type: single-seat long-range fighter
Crew: 1
Armament: six 37mm cannon or one 75mm cannon

Specifications:
Length: 44' 9.25" (13.65 m)
Height: 15' 9" (4.80 m)
Wingspan: 55' 0" (16.76 m)
Wing area: 414 sq. ft (38.46 sq. m)
Empty Weight: 17,745 lb (8049 kg)
Max Weight: 25,400 lb (11,5321 kg) max at takeoff

Propulsion:
No. of Engines: 2
Powerplant: Continental XIV-1430-17/19 contra-rotating inlines
Horsepower: 1350 hp each

Performance:
Range: 2385 miles (3838 km)
Cruise Speed: N/A
Max Speed: 405 mph ( 652 km/h) at 25,000 ft
Ceiling: 37,400 ft (11,400 m)

McDonnell XP-67 "Bat" Info


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 3, 2006)

Okay thanks for the specifications of the aircraft. Healz.


----------



## v2 (Dec 11, 2006)

I have another one for you:


----------



## v2 (Dec 11, 2006)

Good shoot BlackWolf!


----------



## Smokey (Dec 11, 2006)




----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 12, 2006)

Yeap sure is. I allways thought she looked like a cross between a Do-17 and a Ju-88.


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 12, 2006)

Okay this one gave me fits. Apologies for the small picture, but I can't find any others!


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 13, 2006)

No takers. I may stump you guys yet. Need a hint?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 13, 2006)

Got me beat. I thought it was some varient of a Piper PA-25 or PA-36 or some kind of varient of a Rockwell.


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 13, 2006)

Nope. I have little information on this dude. But here is a hint. Hopefully someone can fill us all in once we guess what it is.

She was used during the Spanish Civil War...


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 13, 2006)

And the best I can tell, Fokker was somehow involved in development.


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2006)

F'ing brilliant BlackWolf. Well done! That one threw me for ever.


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 15, 2006)

Actually it looks a bit like a shrunken Ju-52 with only the engine in the fuselage remaining to me... What do you think? Bear a slight resemblance to the Ju-52 in fuselage design?


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 16, 2006)

That looks like a Bristol Bulldog to me from 1926 although I could be wrong...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 16, 2006)

Berliner-Joyce XFJ-1


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 16, 2006)

My Turn...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 16, 2006)

Bingo!


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 16, 2006)

Okay, could someone post a picture of the Bristol Bulldog next to the Berliner-Joyce XFJ-1 so that I can see the difference between the two, as they look mighty similar to my eye...


----------



## Glider (Dec 16, 2006)

As requested. Hope the size is OK


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 17, 2006)

Hawker Tomtit, I think...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 19, 2006)

Here's another...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 19, 2006)

It is a XA-41.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 19, 2006)

Very Good! here's another...


----------



## twoeagles (Dec 19, 2006)

I love an airplane with snappy fairings, Joe - I would love this one.
Are those, in fact, exhaust stacks poking out the front of the speed ring?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 19, 2006)

twoeagles said:


> I love an airplane with snappy fairings, Joe - I would love this one.
> Are those, in fact, exhaust stacks poking out the front of the speed ring?


It looks that way - I was surprised as well!


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 20, 2006)

So I got it right, wow, can be tricky sometimes with those WW1 planes. Have to find one that you probably might not know about...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 20, 2006)

HealzDevo said:


> So I got it right, wow, can be tricky sometimes with those WW1 planes. Have to find one that you probably might not know about...



What did you get right? The biplane posted is a Bristol Bulldog, not a Hawker Tomtit. The Bulldog saw service in the late 1920s, early 1930s, not WW1!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 20, 2006)

Got me on that one... I can not find it in any of my books.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 20, 2006)

BlackWolf3945 said:


> FLYBOYJ's latest is the Kinner 'P'...
> 
> 
> Fade to Black...



You da man!


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 20, 2006)

FlyboyJ ban BlackWolf. He's getting all of these and that's not fair. Not fair I say.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 21, 2006)

Matt308 said:


> FlyboyJ ban BlackWolf. He's getting all of these and that's not fair. Not fair I say.



I think I made him work for that one...


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 21, 2006)

Well done, regardless.


----------



## HealzDevo (Dec 21, 2006)

I was meaning that I would find you an image of a WW1 plane that would test your knowledge of bombers to the limit. Just post WW1 but very little known...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Dec 21, 2006)

HealzDevo said:


> I was meaning that I would find you an image of a WW1 plane that would test your knowledge of bombers to the limit. Just post WW1 but very little known...



Do it...


----------



## v2 (Dec 26, 2006)

Christmas time and red stars...


----------



## pbfoot (Dec 26, 2006)

a long shot


----------



## v2 (Dec 27, 2006)

BlackWolf3945 said:


> Romanian He 112s dressed up for a movie...
> 
> 
> Fade to Black...


----------



## v2 (Dec 27, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> a long shot



C-102 Jetliner


----------



## Wurger (Jan 6, 2007)

O.K guys,my turn.


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 6, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> i'm not sure why but she reminds me of the Do-335..........




Tail...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 7, 2007)

you went back 43 pages and over a year just to pick me up on that  i'd even forgotten what aircraft i was talking about........


----------



## HealzDevo (Jan 7, 2007)

Is it a French Morane Fighter of WWII?


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 7, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> you went back 43 pages and over a year just to pick me up on that  i'd even forgotten what aircraft i was talking about........



Yes Lanc. Because you are special in my black heart.


...and... I... wasn't paying attention.


----------



## Krabat42 (Jan 8, 2007)

My guess: Tomaschewitsch I-110


----------



## HealzDevo (Jan 9, 2007)

Heinkel He-112? I'm just throwing up some random guesses here hoping to be right in one of them.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 9, 2007)

Krabat42 said:


> My guess: Tomaschewitsch I-110


Correct!!!





military graphics


----------



## Marcel (Jan 10, 2007)

This one?


----------



## Pisis (Jan 10, 2007)

OMG...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 10, 2007)

Fokker


----------



## Krabat42 (Jan 10, 2007)

Moskaljev SAM-13. I'm good these days.

Ahh, no. Too rash. The SAM-13 has only one vertical fin...


----------



## Wurger (Jan 10, 2007)

FLYBOYJ and Krabat42


----------



## Krabat42 (Jan 10, 2007)

Fokker D-23. Haven't seen this type until now. Interesting. Found it in a dutch forum now. Unfortunately I'm not able to read dutch...


----------



## Glider (Jan 10, 2007)

Fokker DXXIII


----------



## Glider (Jan 10, 2007)

2 x Walter Saggitta engines of 528hp. Max speed 326mph at 13,450ft. Climb 3.9min to 9,845ft, 6.8min to 16,405ft. Armament 2 x 7.9mm and 2 x 13.2mm FN-Browning.

These were calculated figures as the plane only made 11 test flights when the German invasion stopped development. This was going well but there were problems with the cooling of the rear engine.

There were other proposed verions the fastest of wich had RR Kestrel IV engines giving a maximum speed of 351mph.

Hope this helps


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 10, 2007)

And highly optimistic performance with realistic armament, self sealing tanks, armoured protection and military design parameters.


----------



## Marcel (Jan 11, 2007)

Fokker D.XXIII, that's right.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 11, 2007)

Too easy - here's one...


----------



## Wurger (Jan 11, 2007)

I'm surre it is a harvester.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 11, 2007)




----------



## Matt308 (Jan 11, 2007)

Caproni?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 11, 2007)

Nope...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 12, 2007)

looks very German?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 12, 2007)

Nope...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 12, 2007)

Italian?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 12, 2007)

Nope.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 12, 2007)

I'm running out of countries here gimme a clue


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 12, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> I'm running out of countries here gimme a clue



OK - I'll give a big hint - HELICOPTERS.


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 12, 2007)

Farman!


----------



## Smokey (Jan 12, 2007)

That was a very big clue - Sikorsky S 19


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 12, 2007)

Well done Smokey.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 12, 2007)

really? to me helicopters= Westlands, incidentally where i've secured a work placement


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 12, 2007)

Smokey said:


> That was a very big clue - Sikorsky S 19


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 12, 2007)

Good for you, Lanc!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 12, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> really? to me helicopters= Westlands, incidentally where i've secured a work placement


Very cool? What will you be doing?


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 12, 2007)

Engineering? Maintenance? Admin? Let us know Lanc. You must be excited.


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 12, 2007)

Lanc,

Will you be having to move into the city? What are your living arrangements? Is this (as we term it in the US) an internship while you go to university? Full time or part time?

I'm happy for you. You will truly be an asset based upon your aerospace enthusiasm alone.

Cheers


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 13, 2007)

good God guys i've posted this news before months back 

Westlands are based in Yeovil, Somerset, which isn't too far from where i live! i.e. it's still in the westcountry

I'm in year 12 of school and it's a Government requirement that all year 12 students undertake a week's work experience somewhere. We're encouraged to get one a bit bigger and further away, so i applied to Westland and got a week in "Engineering Support", which sounds a lot like "Tea boy" but i said i enjoy the theory behind the engineering so hopefuly there'll be lots of maths! obviously no cameras allowed which is a shame though

as for where i'm staying, i've found a nice B&B within walking distance of the site (which is huge given it's in the middle of a town/city!)- the proplems start here, the accomadtion alone will cost about £300 for the week plus just under £100 for transport (trains are extortionately expensive over here, paying £200 for a return ticket isn't anything supprising- yet what is is that you can get two singles for £50 in some cases!), that's money i've got but have spent a long time saving so understandably i'm after funding from elsewhere, i've made a funding application to a local fund however this will all take place in the next financial year, so they can't grant me anything until then! but that's march/april time and this all takes place the first week in July, thus it's leaving it a little late if they say no, so unless you guys are gonna put some money in the lanc pot i'll have to dip into my savings, should be worth it though for an opertunity like this! should be great getting some experience doing engineering on the world's finest Helicopters


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jan 13, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> good God guys i've posted this news before months back


It must of gotten buried with some of your jibberish with CC - 

Great to hear!

BTW I got £10 for the fund....


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 13, 2007)

Good for you, Lanc. I remember you saying you had applied, but didn't recall you being accepted. What an adventure. Do it even if you have to borrow money. You won't regret it from a professional nor personal perspective. And then work your backside off when you get their. While it may not result in a job with Westlands post university, I bet it ultimately gets you a job from referral.

Fun times.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 13, 2007)

cheers guys, should be an amazing experience if nothing else, plus a week away from home  i'm still not sure if i want to study Civil engineering or Aerospace engineering at university so hopefully a week with a multi-billion pound company will help me choose, i'm not sure if i'll be doing day to day work or if they'll give me a project to work on for the week... i'll just make sure that if they get me to design the next generation of helicopter i get a hefty paycheck, and in return for a £10 investment into the pot now, you'll all get a helicopter in return  so come on matt, dig deep


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 13, 2007)

I could afford to give you few pounds. Beer is catching up with me you know.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 13, 2007)

for you my friend it'll be roughly $587  i know, the exchange rate has rocketed in the last few hours


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 13, 2007)

You're thinking currency. I'm thinking body mass. Sorry we can't deal.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 14, 2007)

you could sell your fat to a stupid thin person for $587 and send it to me, then, here's the best part, you can grow it back and sell it on again! good God with ideas like that why am i wasting my time on here with you guys!!


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 14, 2007)

Well the way I see it, you have two options my friend.

1. Get off your lazy lol ass and get a weekend job and earn some money...

2. Go seduce some woman with some money and she will finance your way through everything as long as you keep her satisfied.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 14, 2007)

ah yes, Crippen my love, where for art thou


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 14, 2007)

I'm sure Crippen with her kids would love to have...another.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 17, 2007)

haha, i'm a good two years younger than her youngest


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 18, 2007)

That's probably what Crippen was thinking too.


----------



## pbfoot (Jan 18, 2007)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> you could sell your fat to a stupid thin person for $587 and send it to me, then, here's the best part, you can grow it back and sell it on again! good God with ideas like that why am i wasting my time on here with you guys!!


 then again you could sell your hair to one that is follically challenged and wave your wand and and have new flowing locks


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 18, 2007)

Wonder what other anatomy you guys are going to identify.


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 20, 2007)

whatever we identify, your's wont be worth selling and certainly wont make the $587 i need


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 21, 2007)

Any feedback others?


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 23, 2007)

you kidding me i'd forgotten completely that this is supposed to be an aircraft thread- it's almost an entire page of me asking for money


----------



## pbfoot (Jan 24, 2007)

try this


----------



## Matt308 (Jan 24, 2007)

At first I thought is was a Short Scylla. Roundels are the tricker, right?


----------



## pbfoot (Jan 24, 2007)

look at the aircraft in the background to give you era


----------



## koivis (Jan 25, 2007)

Fleet Model 50K.


----------



## pbfoot (Jan 27, 2007)

sure is


----------



## v2 (Jan 28, 2007)

I found something for you, guys...


----------



## v2 (Jan 31, 2007)

Nobody wants to try? Photo was taken in 1940...


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 31, 2007)

can we have a nationality?


----------



## v2 (Jan 31, 2007)

British


----------



## v2 (Feb 3, 2007)

This glider was converted to a flying boat and was successfully flown from Windermere.


----------



## Wurger (Feb 3, 2007)

No to im zadałeś.


----------



## v2 (Feb 3, 2007)

A już się ucieszyłem...


----------



## paaln (Feb 4, 2007)

slingsby falcon I?


----------



## v2 (Feb 5, 2007)

Uffff.... Great, Paaln, it is. And a few words more: During World War II a Slingsby Falcon glider was converted to a flying boat and was successfully flown from Windermere. The aircraft survives today in the Windermere Steamboat Museum.


----------



## v2 (Feb 14, 2007)

A new one:


----------



## Wildcat (Feb 14, 2007)

What ever it is, it's butt ugly!


----------



## Wespe (Feb 14, 2007)

It must be that stealth aircraft the Kiribati airforce bought sometime ago.


----------



## bigZ (Feb 14, 2007)

I have seen this before. Is it from the Gloster works(Racking my brains)?


----------



## paaln (Feb 14, 2007)

Vickers 161


----------



## v2 (Feb 14, 2007)

great, it is.


----------



## paaln (Feb 14, 2007)

what is this, then


----------



## v2 (Feb 15, 2007)

Piaggio P.108 B


----------



## paaln (Feb 15, 2007)

That's the right scooter. Next...


----------



## v2 (Feb 15, 2007)

...next:


----------



## Matt308 (Feb 17, 2007)

plz something rather...


----------



## v2 (Feb 18, 2007)

pic number 2...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 18, 2007)

Looks like an IAR-37/38/39 or varient there of.


----------



## v2 (Feb 18, 2007)

Nope Adler- try again...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 18, 2007)

It is Romanian though correct?


----------



## v2 (Feb 18, 2007)

Nope...but not so far from Romania...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 18, 2007)

Hmm back to the books.


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 19, 2007)

Is it Czech? AVIA or Aero?


----------



## v2 (Feb 19, 2007)

Nope


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 19, 2007)

This one has me stumped because I can not find it in any of my books. It looks like a damn Romanian bird though.


----------



## v2 (Feb 23, 2007)

Ok, guys... next one...


----------



## Wurger (Feb 23, 2007)

O.K. This is the Hungarian Fokker CVD Furricane.


----------



## v2 (Feb 23, 2007)

Yeap


----------



## Matt308 (Feb 25, 2007)

Looked like a Czech plane to me. So what do I know.


----------



## v2 (Mar 2, 2007)

Next:


----------



## v2 (Mar 6, 2007)

second one...


----------



## Wurger (Mar 9, 2007)

No one is willing to answer. This is a Hungarian WM21 Solyom recon aircraft.There another pic of the plane. 

Source unknown.


----------



## Matt308 (Mar 9, 2007)

Here's an interesting one. Lots of clues in the picture.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Mar 9, 2007)

Cessna, T-37 prototype?


----------



## Matt308 (Mar 9, 2007)

Nope. Another hint. Pusher prop.


----------



## Matt308 (Mar 9, 2007)

This will give it away for FBJ, but what the heck. A couple more pics.


----------



## paaln (Mar 10, 2007)

Douglas Cloudster II

next


----------



## Matt308 (Mar 10, 2007)

Yep. Twin engines coupled with P-39 propshaft to pusher prop. Apparently only two made. One ended up as a Boy Scout training tool.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Mar 10, 2007)

paaln said:


> Douglas Cloudster II
> 
> next



Y1B-7


----------



## paaln (Mar 10, 2007)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Y1B-7



yep


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 11, 2007)

Okay here is one. Should not be too hard though.


----------



## Matt308 (Mar 11, 2007)

Good one Adler! Looks like a high altitude Ju-88 testbed with pressurized cabin. Just a guess though.


----------



## Grampa (Mar 11, 2007)

must come from a Dornier, a Dornier Do 217 i guess


----------



## Matt308 (Mar 11, 2007)

You might be right. The gear doors don't look right for a Ju-88


----------



## paaln (Mar 11, 2007)

Ju EF 61, based on Ju 49


----------



## Matt308 (Mar 12, 2007)

Uh... more info please...


----------



## paaln (Mar 12, 2007)

more info: 2 made, 2 crashed, in 1937. 2xDB600A...
Junkers EF 61 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Êðûëüÿ ëþôòâàôôå - EF-61
Ñõåìà EF-61
and the weirdest thing, I just visited a link at luftarchiv.de, but it won't show up again...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 12, 2007)

paaln is correct.


----------



## paaln (Mar 12, 2007)

back to civvies


----------



## pbfoot (Mar 12, 2007)

DHA 3 Drover


----------



## paaln (Mar 12, 2007)

that is correct


----------



## Marcel (Mar 19, 2007)

You know this one?


----------



## v2 (Mar 19, 2007)

Koolhoven F.K.58


----------



## Marcel (Mar 20, 2007)

Very good


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 20, 2007)

This one is not too tough.


----------



## Wurger (Mar 20, 2007)

It looks to me like RWD-8.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 20, 2007)

Yeap I told you it would not be hard.


----------



## Wurger (Mar 20, 2007)

Yeap. The a/c has a very characteristic shape.


----------



## Wurger (Mar 20, 2007)

My turn.It shouldn't be also tough.


----------



## v2 (Mar 20, 2007)

I-211 ?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 20, 2007)

The I-211 was a jet engined aircraft that flew in 1947.

I think it is a I-185


----------



## v2 (Mar 20, 2007)

You are right Chris I-185 M71


----------



## Wurger (Mar 20, 2007)

So it was also easy to guess. 
DerAdler vs V2
1 : 0


And the next easy for identifying.


----------



## v2 (Mar 21, 2007)

La-9 RD (Ла-9РД )


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Mar 21, 2007)

Here's one....


----------



## Wurger (Mar 21, 2007)

v2 said:


> La-9 RD (Ла-9РД )



Yes,.La9 with VN Chelomeis rocket engine. Target hit.


----------



## v2 (Mar 21, 2007)

Wurger said:


> Yes,.La9 with VN Chelomeis rocket engine. Target hit.



It was an aircraft with pulse jet engines, not rocket...


----------



## Wurger (Mar 21, 2007)

The description below the pic says other think.But it looks to me like the V1 pulse jet engines too.

BTW. "РД" stands for Reaktywnyj Dwigatiel. (racket engine)


----------



## v2 (Mar 22, 2007)

Yes, but I found this:
La126-138


----------



## Wurger (Mar 22, 2007)

Yeap, I've find the site also. I think that there could be a mistake with the description or simply with a proper pic.But it is very interesting isn't it?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Mar 22, 2007)

Gentlemen...


----------



## v2 (Mar 22, 2007)

Don't worry...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Mar 22, 2007)




----------



## v2 (Mar 24, 2007)

Curtis JN-4 Canuck (Jenny) ?


----------



## paaln (Mar 24, 2007)

It's french, really, even if it is called Paul Schmitt 7


----------



## v2 (Mar 24, 2007)




----------



## FLYBOYJ (Mar 24, 2007)

Yep!


----------



## paaln (Mar 25, 2007)

next one


----------



## Wurger (Mar 27, 2007)

To be honest I haven't any idea.I've improved the pic a bit,so the bird is better visible.


----------



## Civettone (Mar 27, 2007)

Perhaps the Praga BV-44?

Kris


----------



## paaln (Mar 28, 2007)

look north


----------



## paaln (Mar 29, 2007)

It is from a northern country, 19 built in all, this 1 was the only one with this engine and it was made for and sold to the air force of a neighboring country. The constructor is a "household" name, at least to the users of this forum, but he was not from the country in which it was built... in fact, he and another household name constructor colleague founded this company... and this is a wiki picture. This should help a bit, right?


----------



## Grampa (Mar 29, 2007)

3 of them whas used against the russian in WW2
the last one whas scrapped 1945


----------



## Wurger (Mar 30, 2007)

Judging by the national markings it was used by Norway.


----------



## Wurger (Mar 30, 2007)

This is the Norwegian SA-14E Jaktfalken II designed by Carl Clemens Bücker who was the founder of the Swedish aviation factory named Svenska Aero Aktiebolaget .


----------



## twoeagles (Mar 30, 2007)

Wurger said:


> This is the Norwegian SA-14E Jaktfalken II designed by Carl Clemens Bücker who was the founder of the Swedish aviation factory named Svenska Aero Aktiebolaget .



I would love to roll open the hangar doors and have this little beauty waiting there. A very trim and clean design, looks like it is about to leap into the air.
Bücker was a topflight designer! But I have never seen it before this posting.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 30, 2007)

Looks like it would be fun to fly on cloudless warm beautiful day.


----------



## twoeagles (Mar 30, 2007)

I just noticed the engine/prop turn counter-clockwise...Hold left rudder
on take-off.


----------



## paaln (Mar 30, 2007)

>This is the Norwegian SA-14E Jaktfalken II


yes, it is


----------



## Wurger (Mar 30, 2007)

Well, let's stay with biplanes.It should be easy.


----------



## Matt308 (Mar 30, 2007)

Wurger said:


> This is the Norwegian SA-14E Jaktfalken II designed by Carl Clemens Bücker who was the founder of the Swedish aviation factory named Svenska Aero Aktiebolaget .



Oh its all clear now. That is a household name.


----------



## paaln (Mar 31, 2007)

S.E.T. XV


----------



## paaln (Mar 31, 2007)

I'm so sure that was the right answer, and I won't be on the puter for a day or so, so I go ahead with posting an easier one


----------



## Single-Handed-Sailor (Mar 31, 2007)

Seversky SEV-3. I don't know which variant though. One source lists this same photo as the 'XAR' and another lists it as the 'L'. Still another simply says 'SEV-3'.


----------



## paaln (Mar 31, 2007)

I _think_ -L and -XAR is the same individual, just at different stages of its development... sev-3 is right, anyways


----------



## Single-Handed-Sailor (Mar 31, 2007)

paaln said:


> I _think_ -L and -XAR is the same individual, just at different stages of its development


Could be, I don't know Seversky airplanes well enough to know for sure though.

I don't know if the person who makes an ID has first dibbs on posting the next one or not, but I don't have one to post just now. So whoever wants to do the next one, have at it!


----------



## Wurger (Apr 2, 2007)

paaln said:


> S.E.T. XV




Sorry guys for my no quick replay but I catched cold and I has been forced to stay in a bed for some days.You are right Paaln it is SET XV. Congrats mate.


----------



## Caesar (Apr 2, 2007)

Red Admiral 7.8.2005icture displays Rohrbach "Rofix" Fighterilotet by Werner Baumbach, WW I fighter ace, who crashed to his death in this fighter. After his death Rohrbach gave up and never builded any aircraft.


----------



## paaln (Apr 10, 2007)

This won't do, we need to get the show back on the road:

what's this, then?


----------



## Civettone (Apr 10, 2007)

I didn't know this one was in Luftwaffe colours. I like this aircraft, it's the Savoia Marchetti SM.91. It was a wooden dive bomber with a DB 605 and an internal bombload. The pilot lay prone. Apparently it had good flight characteristics and a decent maximum speed. At least at the end of the war, the Italians finally got the dive bomber they wanted.

And what's this?





Kris


----------



## paaln (Apr 10, 2007)

It was not an SM.91.


----------



## Grampa (Apr 11, 2007)

this is a Savoia Marchetti SM.91


----------



## paaln (Apr 11, 2007)

Your plane, btw, is a Renard R-32


So it's back to this, then...


----------



## Civettone (Apr 12, 2007)

ok ok it's not the SM.91 but the SM.93 ! 


Good call on the Renard R.32

What's this then??





Kris


----------



## Civettone (Apr 12, 2007)

Perhaps a bit too difficult. I give you a hint: it's a famous British aircraft.

Here's a lesser known British aircraft:




Kris


----------



## amrit (Apr 12, 2007)

Folland FO.108

British Aircraft of World War II - FOLLAND FO.108


----------



## Civettone (Apr 12, 2007)

You nailed it amrit! The Fo.108 was essentially an engine testbed.

Any idea on the previous one? The clue I gave should limit the options...
Kris


----------



## amrit (Apr 12, 2007)

No idea!

And a nice easy one for my first question:


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 13, 2007)

The pic in Post 999 is a Bristol Blenheim


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 13, 2007)

Oh, and the other one is a Vickers F7/41. High altitude figher project. Looks like a Mosquito on Steroids.


----------



## amrit (Apr 13, 2007)

Krabat42 said:


> Oh, and the other one is a Vickers F7/41. High altitude figher project. Looks like a Mosquito on Steroids.



Yep. Always thought it was a missed opportunity.


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 13, 2007)

Taking a DH Hornet a give her high-altitude wingtips would have been a cheaper alternative. And as far as I remember the armament of the Vickers would have been a meager four .303 machine guns. Or was this the Mosquito-NF-conversion? I have to check this.


----------



## amrit (Apr 13, 2007)

Krabat42 said:


> the armament of the Vickers would have been a meager four .303 machine guns. Or was this the Mosquito-NF-conversion? I have to check this.



It was supposed to have six 20-mm cannon in a ventral pack.


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 13, 2007)

That should be enough  But with a ventral pack it would have looked strange, like a pregnant Mossi on Steroids  And the four MG equipment was for the Mosquito NKF Mk. XV. Now that I have access to my sources...


----------



## v2 (Apr 17, 2007)

What's this?


----------



## amrit (Apr 17, 2007)

Liberty Belle B-17

Was used as a test bed by Pratt Whitney for their engines in the 1940s 50s - the wing-engines would be feathered during flight.


----------



## v2 (Apr 17, 2007)




----------



## amrit (Apr 17, 2007)

Cheers.

What's this?


----------



## paaln (Apr 17, 2007)

It's the Fokker D.XXI Prototype, sitting at Schipol in 1936


----------



## amrit (Apr 17, 2007)

Spot-on on all counts.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Apr 17, 2007)

Here's one....


----------



## v2 (Apr 19, 2007)




----------



## paaln (Apr 21, 2007)

it looks kinda like an argentinian Ae.C.2, but it has a different engine from the pic I have in a book, but it is the closest thing I've found. 

Now I've just found your pic on a site, 
Escuela De Aeromodelismo Cutral Co - Ae. C. 2 - Ae. M. e. 1
and caption reads Ae.C.1 Prototipo, but C.1's had closed cockpit, and the same pic I mention above as C.2 is described here as Ae.M.E.1, so now I am stumped. 

At least it is an FMA


----------



## FLYBOYJ (May 4, 2007)

You got it!!


----------



## v2 (May 5, 2007)




----------



## Krabat42 (May 7, 2007)

Northrop XP-79. An intersting view. From this angle it looks like one of the early Horten sailplanes. The side intakes gave it away


----------



## v2 (May 7, 2007)




----------



## Marcel (May 12, 2007)

Do you know what plane is being build here?


----------



## Glider (May 12, 2007)

Hotspur Glider


----------



## Marcel (May 13, 2007)

No, sorry, it's engine powered


----------



## Marcel (May 13, 2007)

Hmm, maybe it is a little difficult, this is how it looked like when ready. (maybe I should post it in the ugliest plan tread?  )


----------



## Matt308 (May 15, 2007)

That's the same airplane? Are you sure?? The one up top has retractable gear and the wingbox is lower, right?


----------



## Marcel (May 16, 2007)

I found this as being the same plane. The lower one has a (very oldfashion) retractable gear. It is a sort of prototype and in the first picture they were rebuilding it, so the gear and probably the spinner changed. I don't think the re is difference in the wingbox, though


----------



## v2 (May 16, 2007)

Koolhoven F.K.55


----------



## Marcel (May 16, 2007)

v2 said:


> Koolhoven F.K.55



Very good


----------



## Cyrano (May 27, 2007)




----------



## v2 (May 28, 2007)

Ju 252 V14, DF+BZ ..


----------



## Cyrano (May 28, 2007)




----------



## v2 (Jun 14, 2007)

I found she for you...


----------



## mosquitoman (Jun 14, 2007)

I don't know what it is, but she's worthy of a place in the ugliest plane thread


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 14, 2007)

Yesyesyes, hereherehere. I know it  

Yokosuka R2Y Keiun

Can I get a free beer now?


----------



## v2 (Jun 14, 2007)

Krabat42 said:


> Yesyesyes, hereherehere. I know it
> 
> Yokosuka R2Y Keiun
> 
> Can I get a free beer now?



Yessss....of course... Beer? Why not? Welcome to Cracow !
www.krakow.pl


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 17, 2007)

I've never tried polish beer...

O.K. then, here's the new one:


----------



## pbfoot (Jun 17, 2007)

whats this unit


----------



## Graeme (Jun 17, 2007)

Krabat42 said:


> I've never tried polish beer...
> 
> O.K. then, here's the new one:



Consolidated-Vultee XP-81


----------



## Graeme (Jun 17, 2007)

pbfoot said:


> whats this unit



Your Canadian flag was the clue! 
Canadian Vickers Vanessa


----------



## Graeme (Jun 17, 2007)

Can you identify the current aircraft on this aviation quiz site?

AviaQuiz - Name That Plane!


----------



## mosquitoman (Jun 18, 2007)

is it a Ju-88 of some kind?


----------



## Graeme (Jun 18, 2007)

Time is running out, which is the beauty of that website. Think Japanese. Something beginning with...*T*


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 18, 2007)

Tachikawa Ki-77


----------



## Graeme (Jun 19, 2007)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Tachikawa Ki-77



So close.That was Tachikawa's experimental long range aircraft. This is his long range reconnaissance-bomber aircraft. Clock is still ticking.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 19, 2007)

Then it's the Ki-74


----------



## Graeme (Jun 19, 2007)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Then it's the Ki-74



Bingo!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 19, 2007)

Now I have one....


----------



## Graeme (Jun 19, 2007)

You certainly do?! First thought would be some rare American civil aircraft.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 19, 2007)

Yep!


----------



## Graeme (Jun 20, 2007)

Once had an opportunity to purchase 5 volumes of Juptner's US civil Aircraft series, but blew it. Anyway, I think it's up to nine(?) volumes now. That would be the only way I could Identify that aircraft.
I'm spent. Count me out!


----------



## cougar32d (Jun 20, 2007)

look at the engines.. piper cubs? ..joined with a center nacelle?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 20, 2007)

I'll let this fester for a while...


----------



## Graeme (Jun 20, 2007)

FLYBOYJ said:


> I'll let this fester for a while...



Come on..just a little hint? How about some more of the registration No.?

I can just make out NX (X for experimental) and 1. I think the next No. is "5"?
I've tried You just landed at AeroFiles! with NX1* and NX15* in their search engine but unless I'm not looking properly keep coming up empty handed.

COUGAR, Piper did make a twin-engined cub, but this is certainly not it. At least *your* trying!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 20, 2007)

OK Here's a hint.

"Oregon."


----------



## Graeme (Jun 20, 2007)

Greenwood-Yates Bicraft of 1935, developed from Yates Oregon O.
Would I be right in thinking that the photo you posted is an original, and could it be the only one?
No photos at that the site I mentioned nor within Google search.
A story to tell? or am I still barking up at the wrong tree?


----------



## cougar32d (Jun 20, 2007)

is itt a sikorsky design?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 20, 2007)

cougar32d said:


> is itt a sikorsky design?


No.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 20, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Greenwood-Yates Bicraft of 1935, developed from Yates Oregon O.
> Would I be right in thinking that the photo you posted is an original, and could it be the only one?
> No photos at that the site I mentioned nor within Google search.
> A story to tell? or am I still barking up at the wrong tree?



Close enough. Yates Bi Motor. There was a recent article in Air and Space Smithsonian about Yates and "Pirate Aviators" of the 1930s. They were one of the first organized home builders and paved the way for amateur and home built aircraft.

Good work!


----------



## Graeme (Jun 20, 2007)

Then that website I posted above needs some serious updating!


----------



## Graeme (Jun 21, 2007)

Identify this military flying boat.
First flew on 14th October 1938.



Shot


----------



## paaln (Jun 25, 2007)

Looks like a Saunders-Roe A.33


----------



## Graeme (Jun 25, 2007)

And it is!


----------



## Graeme (Jun 26, 2007)

The answer is on the fuselage.


----------



## Marcel (Jun 26, 2007)

Graeme said:


> The answer is on the fuselage.



Schelde s.21


----------



## Graeme (Jun 26, 2007)

No. This is American.


----------



## paaln (Jun 26, 2007)

Abrams Model P-1 Explorer


----------



## Graeme (Jun 26, 2007)

paaln said:


> Abrams Model P-1 Explorer



Paaln, you are truly amazing at this recognition caper! One more 'rare' American civvie, sticking with the twin-boom arrangement. Am I leaving a bread crumb trail?


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 26, 2007)

It's a flying car, I do know that...


----------



## Graeme (Jun 27, 2007)

FLYBOYJ said:


> It's a flying car, I do know that...


Maybe you're thinking of this?


----------



## Wurger (Jun 27, 2007)

I can see some similarity.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jun 27, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Maybe you're thinking of this?


Not really, I've seen that one before.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 28, 2007)

Well..no mention of being 'roadworthy' in the article. One of numerous designs from Mr Frank Trella of Michigan. First flew September 1949. Plans with a 100hp Continental "may be made available if the demand warrants this". I guessing that it didn't.


----------



## cougar32d (Jun 28, 2007)

how about this one?


----------



## Graeme (Jun 28, 2007)




----------



## Graeme (Jun 28, 2007)

cougar32d said:


> how about this one?


Sorry Cougar, we must have posted at the same time. This is a Fouga C.M. 88-R GEMEAUX.
Try the one above.


----------



## cougar32d (Jun 28, 2007)




----------



## Graeme (Jun 28, 2007)

cougar32d said:


>



Cougar, someone, somewhere in this forum pointed out that images obtained from the Net and pasted here, are 'labelled' when you're* not* logged in. Have a look. Both your images are labelled revealing the answers. This includes your last one, which is a Dornier 31.
I don't know how you prevent this. 
The twin prop silhouette above is scanned, and remains unanswered.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 28, 2007)

Shot at 2007-06-28

Sorry. just testing to see if this image remains unlabelled when logged out.


----------



## cougar32d (Jun 28, 2007)

awww...man. well at least i get the "who looks like a tool" award today. it'll look great on my mantle!


----------



## Graeme (Jun 28, 2007)

cougar32d said:


> awww...man. well at least i get the "who looks like a tool" award today. it'll look great on my mantle!



Well I'm not the "sharpest tool in the shed" when it comes to computers, but try this- when you have selected your image-
click right,
select 'save image as',
then when the File name appears, *alter it* as necessary. Attach.

Hopefully, this 'Attached file' will be called "Frenchy" when logged out.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 29, 2007)

To prevent this thread from sliding beyond page three of the 'new post' listings, yet again, I hereby submit another image for identification. I first saw this plane in an episode of "The Six Million Dollar Man".


----------



## paaln (Jun 29, 2007)

Temco 51 TT-1 Pinto


----------



## Graeme (Jun 29, 2007)

paaln said:


> Temco 51 TT-1 Pinto



It certainly is. Have you got a name for the twin prop in post #1076? or the photo in #1080 and #1082 above?


----------



## paaln (Jun 30, 2007)

No. Too many questions at once. Might lose interest. This was a nice thread once, when we could concentrate on one plane at a time...

But since you ask so nice, Frenchy could well be a SNCASO 8000 Narval


----------



## Graeme (Jun 30, 2007)

paaln said:


> No. Too many questions at once. Might lose interest. This was a nice thread once, when we could concentrate on one plane at a time...
> 
> But since you ask so nice, Frenchy could well be a SNCASO 8000 Narval



Yes it is. And point taken.


----------



## paaln (Jun 30, 2007)

A hint on the twin prop?

Never mind, found it, I think. But it has different engines... is it the Ikarus 214?


----------



## Graeme (Jun 30, 2007)

paaln said:


> A hint on the twin prop?
> 
> Never mind, found it, I think. But it has different engines... is it the Ikarus 214?



Yes!
The silhouette's caption describes it as a Type 214-D with Pratt and Whitney R-1340 wasp AN-1 9-cylinder radial air-cooled engines.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 2, 2007)

I'm after the identity of this aircraft, for another web site.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Jul 2, 2007)

The louvered panels mean a heat source - starter generator or generators....

Any other clues?


----------



## Glider (Jul 2, 2007)

Reminds me a little of an F5E


----------



## Graeme (Jul 2, 2007)

FLYBOYJ said:


> The louvered panels mean a heat source - starter generator or generators....
> 
> Any other clues?



No other clues were given. I was thinking Aermacchi MB.339?


----------



## Krabat42 (Jul 3, 2007)

Or maybe a Mirage?


----------



## Graeme (Jul 5, 2007)

AviaQuiz site 'revealed' this as Aermacchi MB 339 last night.






This is their next one. E or F?


----------



## Krabat42 (Jul 6, 2007)

An early Do-17 with BMW VI engines. But E or F is hard to distinguish. What were the differences of these two versions? Does anybody know?

AFAIK the E was a bomber and the F was a reconnaissance plane, but I'm not sure about that.


----------



## Wurger (Jul 6, 2007)

Krabat42 said:


> An early Do-17 with BMW VI engines. But E or F is hard to distinguish. What were the differences of these two versions? Does anybody know?
> 
> AFAIK the E was a bomber and the F was a reconnaissance plane, but I'm not sure about that.



As memory serves,
E-a bomber
F- a long range reconnaissance a/c
Differences:
F-1 version: armament 1xMG15 7.62mm firing forward ( flexible mounted in right windw of the cockpit windshield ) and one flexible mounted MG15 which could be used as the upper or lower machine gun.Some cameras- a manual camera Zeiss FL.K.C/5a and three fixed cameras - Zeiss RMK 10/8 for panoramic pictures,Zeiss RMK 50/30 light camera,Zeiss RMK 75/30 heavy camera.Later were used automatic cameras for mass panoramic pictures (Reihnbilderkamera) - Rb 10/8, Rb 20/30 and Rb 50/30.This version was equipped with an additional fuel tank. 

E-1/2/3 version: armament 1xMG15 flexible mounted at the upper battle station firing backward,1xMG15 mounted at the lower battle station firing also back.Certainly, bombs 500-750 kg - standard bombload 10xSC50 50kg bombs or 4xSD100 100kg bombs or 2xSD250 250kg bombs.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 6, 2007)

In the meantime, try this one;


----------



## Wurger (Jul 7, 2007)

I've seen a such one at a kindergarden.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 7, 2007)

Wurger said:


> I've seen a such one at a kindergarden.


----------



## Wurger (Jul 8, 2007)

Now it is better,However it is still looking like a one which was taken from a kindergarten.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 8, 2007)

Wurger said:


> Now it is better,However it is still looking like a one which was taken from a kindergarten.



And if the kids at the kindergarten grow bored-brighten it up with another wing.



If you get bored of the kids just hop in, and fly away.




(PS- Thanks Wurger and Krabat42 for your input on the Do 17. Revealed as just a 'Dornier Do 17' this am, regardless of model)


----------



## Glider (Jul 8, 2007)

A guess, the Miles Master M24 in the second photo, fitted with the slip wing tried on the Hurricane for extra range.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 8, 2007)

Glider said:


> A guess, the Miles Master M24 in the second photo, fitted with the slip wing tried on the Hurricane for extra range.



No and Yes. It's the Hillson Bi-mono. An interesting experiment in allowing an aircraft to take-off from grass fields or roads at 'overload' weights, then 'slip' the wing off in flight to regain maneouvrability and fighting performance.
Built in 1940 its performance was so bad that the maximum speed as a biplane was less than the stalling speed as a monoplane; in other words; jettisoning the top wing caused an immediate stall. A single, successful 'slip' was made on July 16 1941. The company pilot reported a gentle sink of a _few hundred feet_ on jettisoning. There are protective frames round the rudder and elevator horn balances, presumably to protect the control surfaces when the top wing was dropped. The monoplane landing was described as "like a high speed kangaroo."

And yes, this interesting experiment continued with the bi-plane Hurricane.


----------



## mosquitoman (Jul 9, 2007)

What's this one then?


----------



## Graeme (Jul 9, 2007)

mosquitoman said:


> What's this one then?



Swedish air force insignia-looks like museum flying day-Google 'Swedish air force Museum'. Is it a.."FVM/CFM 01 Tummelisa"?


----------



## mosquitoman (Jul 9, 2007)

Yep


----------



## Krabat42 (Jul 10, 2007)

Is this at Duxfords Flying Legends this year? I read the Tummelisa would be a visitor.


----------



## mosquitoman (Jul 10, 2007)

Yes it was, did a good display aswell.


----------



## trackend (Jul 10, 2007)

Heres a couple of more shots (nice Pic Mossie)


----------



## mosquitoman (Jul 10, 2007)

Wow, good pics.
It was parked right in front of where I was sitting so half my shots had the top wing or some struts in.


----------



## Wurger (Jul 10, 2007)

A nice beplane and nice stuff there.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 10, 2007)

One clue, is the aircraft, bottom left.


----------



## Wurger (Jul 11, 2007)

This aircraft looks to me like Tupolev's one


----------



## Njaco (Jul 11, 2007)

Henschel Hs 128?


----------



## paaln (Jul 11, 2007)

Tu-8 (ANT-69)


----------



## Graeme (Jul 11, 2007)

paaln said:


> Tu-8 (ANT-69)



You got it.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 12, 2007)

One good identification deserves another.


----------



## Njaco (Jul 13, 2007)

jeez, I'm outta my league in this thead!


----------



## paaln (Jul 13, 2007)

Looks like the McDonnell 119/220


----------



## Graeme (Jul 13, 2007)

paaln said:


> Looks like the McDonnell 119/220



Yep. Nice looking aeroplane which still exists.


----------



## v2 (Jul 20, 2007)

?


----------



## Graeme (Jul 20, 2007)

V2, I think that's a Sukhoi Su-2.


----------



## v2 (Jul 21, 2007)

Graeme


----------



## Wurger (Aug 2, 2007)

O.K. guys.Try to this.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 2, 2007)

Good photo Wurger.
The Tupolev PS-9. In 1934 one was 'dressed' as a crocodile. It was connected with a peculiar institution in Soviet aviation, the 'Agitation' Squadron 'Maxim Gorki'.


----------



## Wurger (Aug 3, 2007)

Bingo Greame .This plane was also marked as ANT-9.Next time I'll find something harder to recognize.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 3, 2007)

Try this one.


----------



## Wurger (Aug 4, 2007)

It looks like the French or Italian one but I don't have any idea.It won't be easy to guess.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 4, 2007)

This may, or may not help.


----------



## evangilder (Aug 4, 2007)

Ikarus Orkan


----------



## Graeme (Aug 4, 2007)

Very impressive Evan. Well done! The Orkan is described as "a cross between the Breda 88 and Breguet 690".
Congratulations also on your recent writing success.


----------



## evangilder (Aug 4, 2007)

Thanks Graeme. More to come!


----------



## Graeme (Aug 9, 2007)




----------



## Wurger (Aug 11, 2007)

PZL-230 Scorpion - the Polish project abondoned many years ago.As memory serves the pic showes 1:1 model of the plane.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 11, 2007)

Wurger said:


> PZL-230 Scorpion.As memory serves the pic showes 1:1 model of the plane.



Well done Wurger!



> - the Polish project abondoned many years ago.



Now I feel old. How long ago was it?


----------



## Glider (Aug 11, 2007)

It looks as if it could have been something a little bit special


----------



## Wurger (Aug 12, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Well done Wurger!
> 
> 
> 
> Now I feel old. How long ago was it?




The first version of Scorpion was prepared in December of 1988.At the beginning of 1991 the project was corrected ( the 1:1 scale model of Scorpion shows the conception from that period of time) in order to get higher speed and payload.In 1993 there was made a decision to continue the project but because of the politic changes in Poland in that time, the project was shortly abondoned.
So, the project is almost 20 years old.


----------



## Njaco (Aug 14, 2007)

Like to throw one in here.....


----------



## Graeme (Aug 14, 2007)




----------



## Njaco (Aug 15, 2007)

I shoulda known better!  Yep, the late, great Inflatoplane. Stay away from bees and Don King!


----------



## Graeme (Aug 17, 2007)




----------



## Njaco (Aug 27, 2007)

I'll try to start this again, of course this could be child's play for the experts here!


----------



## Graeme (Aug 27, 2007)

A Vought V-156F with the French Navy?


----------



## Njaco (Aug 27, 2007)

You guys are the best! Thought I'd throw you off with a variation of the Vindicator. Good show!


----------



## Graeme (Aug 27, 2007)

Graeme said:


>



I posted this earlier, want 'clues' or just the answer? It's been there a while now.


----------



## Glider (Aug 28, 2007)

I have seen that picture somewhere. A total guess is a Farnborough 1956 show and its a Miles aircraft. What type I have no idea (right now)


----------



## Graeme (Aug 28, 2007)

Glider said:


> I have seen that picture somewhere. A total guess is a Farnborough 1956 show and its a Miles aircraft. What type I have no idea (right now)



Getting close Glider. SBAC show 1948. G-ALOI gathered dust in the F.G Miles hanger at Redhill for ten years until it was broken up for scrap in 1958.

Big clue-They tried to make a helicopter out of one of the airframes..




The Firth Helicopter.


----------



## wingnuts (Aug 29, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Getting close Glider. SBAC show 1948. G-ALOI gathered dust in the F.G Miles hanger at Redhill for ten years until it was broken up for scrap in 1958.
> 
> Big clue-They tried to make a helicopter out of one of the airframes..
> 
> ...



My first post on this site... but the original looks like the Planet Satelite. Designed by a Major Heenan in the late 40s in the UK. It had structural problems.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 29, 2007)

First post..and yes it is/was the Planet Satellite! Welcome!


----------



## Graeme (Sep 5, 2007)

Another one to try.


----------



## v2 (Sep 5, 2007)

Short S.B.3


----------



## Wurger (Sep 5, 2007)

It looks a bit like an elk without horns .


----------



## Graeme (Sep 5, 2007)

v2 said:


> Short S.B.3



Well done V2!

One more...


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 6, 2007)

Another I-16, this time not from the "King of Fighters", but from the Latvian State Factory (VEF). I'm doing Aviaquiz too  

VEF I-16 - fighter


----------



## Graeme (Sep 6, 2007)

> I'm doing Aviaquiz too



 

Maybe we can combine our resources!? PM each other on the DIFFICULT ones?


----------



## Glider (Sep 6, 2007)

Can I suggest the following. It should be pretty easy


----------



## ccheese (Sep 6, 2007)

The angle, plus the fact it appears to be a drawing, makes it difficult.
High wing, four jet engines, T-tail........ ??

Charles


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Sep 6, 2007)

McDonnell Douglas YC-15


----------



## Glider (Sep 6, 2007)

Yep well done
Interesting to note that after 15 years in storage, it is now in use as a technology demonstrator, which shows how advanced the design was.

PS it was a photo I took at Farnborough, some years ago


----------



## Graeme (Sep 6, 2007)

And the other entrant in the AMST competition was....?


----------



## ccheese (Sep 6, 2007)

I don't know what it is, but it has Lockheed written all over it...

Charles


----------



## v2 (Sep 7, 2007)

I found something...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Sep 7, 2007)

Graeme said:


> And the other entrant in the AMST competition was....?



YC-14


----------



## Graeme (Sep 7, 2007)

v2 said:


> I found something...



The Loire-Nieuport 161.


----------



## ccheese (Sep 7, 2007)

Ok guys..... try this one...... it never made it into production....

Charles


----------



## GaryMcL (Sep 7, 2007)

Grumman XP-50 Skyrocket


----------



## ccheese (Sep 7, 2007)

Officially it's an XF5F-1.... but it is the Skyrocket....

Good show !

Charles


----------



## ccheese (Sep 7, 2007)

Try this one...... circa 1942

Charles


----------



## Matt308 (Sep 7, 2007)

It's a Blackburn, right??


----------



## ccheese (Sep 7, 2007)

No....it's a Miles.... Model M-20

Charles


----------



## Matt308 (Sep 7, 2007)

ccheese said:


> No....it's a Miles.... Model M-20
> 
> Charles




Awhhh cripes man!! Don't give it away so soon! We were just getting going. 

Note how that beauty looks like a blackburn, with a fairey 8-machine gun wing, Tempest Perspex cockpit glass, and a Fairey Barracuda nose cowl with what appeared to be a Merlin engine.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 8, 2007)

A rare flying boat...


----------



## Matt308 (Sep 8, 2007)

...or rarely flying. That's a good one.


----------



## Soundbreaker Welch? (Sep 8, 2007)

Jat looks like a weird floatplane.

Here is one.






And I bet people can guess this Japanes float plane, but here is a dramatic photo of it anyhow.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 8, 2007)

Mine from above,
-Only one built.
-Japanese.
-1924.
-Flew "well", until it crashed!
The Kaibo Gikai KB Experimental Flying-Boat...

Soundbreaker,
..you have a large photo of the HiMAT technology demonstrator...
and a small photo of a blazing Kawanishi H6K 'Mavis'.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 9, 2007)

French...


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 11, 2007)

Even without the roundels, I would have thought, it's french. It's so ugly, it must be  But no idea so far. I'll keep searching.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 11, 2007)

Clue..Dewoitine.


----------



## v2 (Sep 11, 2007)

Dewoitine D-720


----------



## ccheese (Sep 11, 2007)

Try this one.....

Charles


----------



## Marcel (Sep 11, 2007)

Saab viggen of course


----------



## ccheese (Sep 11, 2007)

You got it.... the SAAB AJ-37 Viggen. Good Show !!

Charles


----------



## Graeme (Sep 11, 2007)

v2 said:


> Dewoitine D-720



Spot on V2!


----------



## v2 (Sep 11, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Spot on V2!


 

Try this one:


----------



## Graeme (Sep 11, 2007)

The Rumanian S.E.T. XV


----------



## Graeme (Sep 12, 2007)

Should be simple!


----------



## comiso90 (Sep 12, 2007)

Vulcan?


----------



## Glider (Sep 12, 2007)

Has to be


----------



## Graeme (Sep 12, 2007)

Glider said:


> Has to be



And it is. The caption that came with that photo pointed out that the Vulcan's engines 'inhaled' *22 tons of air per minute*. How many cubic feet/metres would that be?


----------



## Graeme (Sep 13, 2007)

Another rare French aircraft...


----------



## Matt308 (Sep 13, 2007)

Graeme said:


> And it is. The caption that came with that photo pointed out that the Vulcan's engines 'inhaled' *22 tons of air per minute*. How many cubic feet/metres would that be?



Depends on altitude, humidity, etc.


----------



## Matt308 (Sep 13, 2007)

ONERA prototype of Deltaviex 01


----------



## ccheese (Sep 13, 2007)

Try this one...... should be easy for the Brits.

Charles


----------



## Graeme (Sep 13, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Depends on altitude, humidity, etc.



I found for 'standard temperature and pressure'..10,178 cubic feet per *second. *!? (based on 0.0807lb ber cubic foot)



Matt308 said:


> ONERA prototype of Deltaviex 01



Good call!



ccheese said:


> Try this one...... should be easy for the Brits.Charles



The Miles M.39B Libellua.


----------



## ccheese (Sep 13, 2007)

Graeme said:


> The Miles M.39B Libellua.



You got it...... Good show !!

Charles


----------



## Graeme (Sep 15, 2007)




----------



## Wurger (Sep 15, 2007)

It looks like the Russian Tu or Il bomber.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 16, 2007)

Wurger said:


> It looks like the Russian Tu or Il bomber.



You got the Russian part right Wurger.


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 18, 2007)

The "150", developed by the team around Brunolf Baade.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 18, 2007)

Krabat42 said:


> The "150", developed by the team around Brunolf Baade.



That's the one!
(Another title is the OKB-1 Type 150)


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 19, 2007)

Do you know Baade's next project, the "152"? Interesting story:

Baade B-152 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Graeme (Sep 19, 2007)

Krabat42 said:


> Do you know Baade's next project, the "152"?



Yes, I've read about it. In fact 'believe it or not', it was going to be my next one!


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 20, 2007)

AARRRRGGGHHH! That's sad. I would have liked to see it. Well, let's wait six months and then try again  When I was a boy I built a plastic model of the Il-28 testbed with the Pirna 014 engine. Long time ago...


----------



## Graeme (Sep 23, 2007)

A Japanese company intended to manufacture this aircraft under licence, with the aim of selling it to South-East Asian air forces. It could carry wing mounted 0.30-in machine guns, two 33-gal napalm tanks, two 250-lb H.E or fragmentation bombs; up to forty 2.75-in folding-fin air rockets; four 5-in heavy rockets; or twenty 80mm Oerlikon rockets.


----------



## Matt308 (Sep 23, 2007)

Fletcher FD-25D Defender for COIN operations. Designed in US. Only 12 built by Toyo of Japan.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 23, 2007)

Too good Matt, too good!


----------



## Glider (Sep 24, 2007)

Can I throw this one into the thread. It was a visitor to the display, not part of the collection and I had to ask what it was.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 24, 2007)

French..
SNCAC (Aerocentre) NC.854 ?


----------



## Glider (Sep 24, 2007)

Well Done, I hadn't got a clue when I saw it.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 24, 2007)

Well Glider, that's a fairly attractive little French civilian.
Here's a not so attractive French civilian, with a 'monowheel' and balancer wheels. Hard to believe it was built in the early sixties.


----------



## v2 (Oct 15, 2007)




----------



## Graeme (Oct 15, 2007)

v2 said:


>



Yes V2, it's been there far too long. The *Bastet 01* of 1962.
(where do you get the clever smilies from?)


----------



## Civettone (Oct 15, 2007)

Can you guys tell me some more about that aircraft?


Kris


----------



## Wurger (Oct 15, 2007)

Hi,
It is Messerschmitt Me 163 Comet.The rest of info on it there:

Messerschmitt Me 163 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or in German

Messerschmitt Me 163 - Wikipedia

The pic - source unknown.


----------



## Marcel (Oct 15, 2007)

I think he means the one Graeme posted


----------



## Wurger (Oct 15, 2007)

Ah...some problems with displaying.Now it is O.K


----------



## Civettone (Oct 15, 2007)

Kris


----------



## Graeme (Oct 16, 2007)

Civettone said:


> Can you guys tell me some more about that aircraft? Kris



Kris, which one?


----------



## Civettone (Oct 16, 2007)

That one wheeled aircraft. What was the story behind it?

Kris


----------



## Graeme (Oct 16, 2007)

Civettone said:


> That one wheeled aircraft. What was the story behind it?
> 
> Kris



Not a lot on it Kris. Googling produced nothing, which I thought made it 'perfect' for the thread! Appropriate that he had a history of making 3-wheeled cars. Powered only by a 45 hp Salmson 9 ADB 9-cyl, air- cooled radial.
From Janes 1962-63.


----------



## Civettone (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks Graeme!

What's this one then??






Kris


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 16, 2007)

Fa-223


----------



## SirianKnight (Oct 16, 2007)

Definitely not a 500mph+ machine! But a pretty aeroplane nevertheless!


----------



## Civettone (Oct 17, 2007)

Yeah that was a give away... 










Kris


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 17, 2007)

Hmm my first thought was a Heinkel such as a Heinkel He 46 but it is not a 46.


----------



## Bullockracing (Oct 17, 2007)

It looks very similar to the Hs 123, perhaps a Hs126?


----------



## Graeme (Oct 17, 2007)

I.M.A.M. Ro 41 at top?
Formation of three Henschel Hs 122s below?


----------



## Civettone (Oct 17, 2007)

Graeme nailed it! Good going dude !! 


Kris


----------



## Graeme (Oct 18, 2007)




----------



## Wurger (Oct 18, 2007)

This is Bolkhovitinov S in 1940.


----------



## Graeme (Oct 18, 2007)

Damn that was quick Wurger! Nice photos.
Third from the top, with skis, is the single engine version?


----------



## Civettone (Oct 18, 2007)

Really interesting. I did some research and maximum speed would have been 570 km/h. In fact it's quite similar to the German He 119 but then less effective.

Kris


----------



## Wurger (Oct 18, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Damn that was quick Wurger! Nice photos.
> Third from the top, with skis, is the single engine version?



Yes it is. In 1940/41 "S" was modified and the rear engine and its propeller were replaced by an inert mass.

I've found other pics of the plane on skis.

Source unknown.


----------



## Wurger (Oct 18, 2007)

OK. What about the bird?


----------



## Graeme (Oct 18, 2007)

Kalinin K-12 (VS-2) in 'Firebird' livery which appeared in the Tushino show 18 August 1937.


----------



## Wurger (Oct 18, 2007)

That was also quick Greame.Point for you.


----------



## Graeme (Oct 18, 2007)

Comrade Wurger, another Soviet...


----------



## Wurger (Oct 18, 2007)

Uff.... 
This is Владислав Константинович Грибовский's aircraft type Gribovski G-23 called Konsomlec in 1936. 

On 24-27th July 1937 the plane took part in the sport aircraft race on the Moscow-Sevastopol-Moscow route.This is the aircraft in your pic.In the first cockpit the additional fuel tank was mounted in order to make its time of flight longer up to 8 hours.The cockpit was covered by a duraluminium sheet.Therefore it seems the plane was a single siter.Max speed 140-170 km/h.

There is another pic of this plane.The second one is a pic of G-23 bis.


----------



## comiso90 (Oct 18, 2007)

Wurger said:


> This is Bolkhovitinov S in 1940.



That is a new one to me... looks like a boat!


----------



## Wurger (Oct 18, 2007)

Indeed.But for me it looks like a miserable joke.

Maybe we should try to ID something much more modern.

What's this?


----------



## Graeme (Oct 18, 2007)

Mikoyan Ye-8?
(You have a nice collection of photos Wurger-thanks for sharing them)


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 18, 2007)

Looks like it could also be a Chengdu J-7MF, a Chinese version of the MiG21. I'm only going by description.

Edited bit: 

Just found a pic of the MiG Ye-8... that is a much better fit


----------



## Civettone (Oct 18, 2007)

Interesting guys! Didn't know that one. Took a look at aviarussia.ee

_During 1961, the MiG OKB initiated work on an upgraded fighter based on the basic MiG-21PF airframe and referred to contemporaneously as the MiG-23. Assigned the OKB designation Ye-8, it featured a bifurcated ventral air intake for the R-21F engine, which, developed by N Metskhvarishvili, was rated at 4500kg and 7000kg with afterburning. A variable-incidence canard spanning 2.60m was fitted - this having been earlier tested by a Ye-6T - and it was proposed to install Sapfir 21 radar to accompany an armament of two K-13 AAMs. The first of two prototypes, the Ye-8/1, was flown on 17 April 1962, followed on 29 June by the Ye-8/2. On 11 September, the R-21F engine of the Ye-8/1 exploded at Mach=1.7 at 10000m. It was subsequently ascertained that the sixth compressor stage fan had penetrated the engine casing and had then continued on to destroy the starboard aileron. At this time, the Ye-8/2 had effected 13 flights, but the programme was abandoned. _

Was it the first jet designed with canard wings?
Kris


----------



## Wurger (Oct 19, 2007)

Wow! Now I'm impressed guys, congrats.
Yes, the bird is Mikoyan Ye-8/1 also named MiG-23.To make the puzzle harder I've removed the Red Stars from wings and the fin,also its number on fuselage.The a/c should have been equipped with the Fire Control System S-23 but because of problems with the system and troubles with the R21F-300 engine the project was given up.


----------



## Graeme (Oct 19, 2007)

I can provide the answer to this one...





But I have no idea what this is, and would appreciate any input..

from AviaQuiz - Name That Plane!


----------



## Matt308 (Oct 21, 2007)

Never have seen that one. Man that looks like Blackburn, but can't find anything.


----------



## Glider (Oct 21, 2007)

How about this A Provost


----------



## Graeme (Oct 21, 2007)

Glider said:


> How about this A Provost



Close. Clue-What other aircraft competed for selection as the RAF's standard pilot trainer at the time?


----------



## Glider (Oct 21, 2007)

Handley Page HPR2, they don't half look the same


----------



## Graeme (Oct 21, 2007)

Glider said:


> Handley Page HPR2, they don't half look the same



That's the one!


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 23, 2007)

Quite a few training aircraft designed at this time looked very similar. The CAC Winjeel is another:

Warbird Alley: Commonwealth CA-25 Winjeel


----------



## Graeme (Oct 23, 2007)

Wingnut, ex-CAC employee? Stop holding back and start posting some of your experiences! I'd like to see some threads on some remarkable CAC aircraft and their projects. Were you involved in the Wamira project? Was CAC still around then?

In the meantime two more to ponder..


----------



## Glider (Oct 23, 2007)

The second is almost certainly Swiss probably a test bed with (another guess) a dart engine


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 23, 2007)

the bottom one is Swiss. I can not remember the name of it. I saw one at the Sinsheim Museum here but I cant remember the name.


----------



## Wurger (Oct 23, 2007)

If the bottom is a Swiss one it must be Pilatus.  A joke of course.

This is the Farner-Werke C-3605 Schlepp.The rest of info on the a/c there:

Federal Aircraft Factory C-3605 Schlepp - target-tug

In the first pic we can see Piaggio P.32.The link:

Piaggio P.32 - bomber


----------



## Graeme (Oct 23, 2007)

That's them Wurger! Too easy again.


----------



## Graeme (Oct 23, 2007)

The Piper Super Cub is the chase plane. What is it chasing?





The pilot in the 'research' jet is Lockheed test pilot "Fish" Salmon.

The year is 1977.


----------



## Krabat42 (Oct 28, 2007)

No ideas friends? Oh yes, it's good to have people to ask and wikipedia 

It's a Ball-Bartoe JW-1 Jetwing, a 1970's research aircraft.

Oh, and I had an idea to make it more of a challenge: How about "he who knows the answer will give the next question"? Asking for hints is allowed of course.

Here's my next question:


----------



## Graeme (Oct 28, 2007)

Krabat42 said:


> It's a Ball-Bartoe JW-1 Jetwing, a 1970's research aircraft.



Bravo! Well done Krabat! I thought that it was going to fall into the 'unsolvable' file again.

Yours?...(I like the AviaQuiz touch-still playing?) I'm thinking of a Fish, a Spear and a Fairey, but not in that order!


----------



## Krabat42 (Oct 29, 2007)

Looks like this wasn't that difficult. I thought, cropping would make it harder. Fairey Spearfish is correct. I would like to attack a carrier task force with a dozen of those, maybe covered by Bristol Brigands and DH Hornets  The idea came when I saw the AviaQuiz picture.
So, you're next Graeme.


----------



## Graeme (Oct 29, 2007)

Two.


----------



## Krabat42 (Oct 29, 2007)

Number two is italian?


----------



## Graeme (Oct 29, 2007)

Number two is Czechoslovakian.

Number one is a transport aircraft regarded as one of the worst aircraft ever built. Built by Greeks in the the US, it was designed by Greeks, and the venture was promoted by a Greek-and every Greek restaurateur on the West Coast stuck a few bucks into the project.
Its short flying life ended as a Hollywood prop, and can be seen in the movie, "Flying Tigers" with John Wayne. Other appearances were also made in low budget "Tarzan" and "Jungle Jim" movies.


----------



## Wurger (Oct 29, 2007)

No. 2 - Praga E-51


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 29, 2007)

Graeme, As you asked ...nothing exciting I started as an inspector at CAC in Port Melbourne in 81 after arriving in Oz from the UK, I was mainly working on the Mirage IIIC Wing LOTEX and New Wing Build, then CAC amagamated/got taken over by "Dirty Harry's" (Hawker de Havilland) I moved on to the F/A18A and 747 L/E Flaps. I was involved in the ill fated Wamira debacle until that died and then moved on to the PC9 wing build. I finally managed to escape the factory environment in 88 and moved the HdH's new hangar at Tullamarine Airport where I was involved in the RAAFs Boeing 707 Air Refuelling Tanker mod... I'm still there, working for a direct decendant of CAC (Tenix)... although I escaped and was recaptured a couple of times. I'm now doing mods on RAAF C130Hs and the occasional VIP ground handling job... rock stars, politicians and sometimes royalty.

During mytime at the "Comical Aircraft Corporation" and "Dirty Harry's" I started doing cartoons of various amusing incidents that happend.... eventually it took up more time than my inspection work. (Sample attached)



Graeme said:


> Wingnut, ex-CAC employee? Stop holding back and start posting some of your experiences! I'd like to see some threads on some remarkable CAC aircraft and their projects. Were you involved in the Wamira project? Was CAC still around then?
> 
> In the meantime two more to ponder..


----------



## Wildcat (Oct 29, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Number one is a transport aircraft regarded as one of the worst aircraft ever built. Built by Greeks in the the US, it was designed by Greeks, and the venture was promoted by a Greek-and every Greek restaurateur on the West Coast stuck a few bucks into the project.
> Its short flying life ended as a Hollywood prop, and can be seen in the movie, "Flying Tigers" with John Wayne. Other appearances were also made in low budget "Tarzan" and "Jungle Jim" movies.



That would be the Capelis XC-12


----------



## Graeme (Oct 30, 2007)

Wurger said:


> No. 2 - Praga E-51





Wildcat said:


> That would be the Capelis XC-12



'Done and dusted' Congrats gentleman!



wingnuts said:


> During my time at the "Comical Aircraft Corporation"



Thanks for the reply Wingnuts.
Interesting career/life! Not the progressive, innovative company that I thought it was? 1981 you said-I was hoping that you may be able to shed some light on early CAC projects that 'looked' promising at the time.
For example..the CA-31 jet trainer design from the mid to late 60s..


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 30, 2007)

Graeme, The CA-31 (1966) only got to 'mock-up' stage, which was donated to the museum at Moorabbin. The CA23 (1950) 2 seat delta winged fighter was also an advanced design. 

CAC CA23 - Project Terminated


However, it needs government orders before production can proceed and the government orders never appeared, CAC manufactured the Avon engined CA-26/27 Sabre for the RAAF. That was the last complete aircraft that was produced. 

RAAF Museum: RAAF Aircraft Series 2 A94 <acronym title="Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation">CAC</acronym> Sabre

CAC was quite innovated in the past, being one of the few aircraft manufacturing companies that could make both engines and airframes, including hydraulic components etc. 

Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Graeme said:


> 'Done and dusted' Congrats gentleman!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Graeme (Oct 30, 2007)

wingnuts said:


> Graeme, As you asked ...nothing exciting



Disagree! Thanks for the CA-23 site-very interesting!


----------



## Graeme (Oct 31, 2007)

Adopting Krabat's 'cropping' technique, here are two more. Both belong to the same manufacturer. That wheel is 6ft 3 in high.


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 31, 2007)

Graeme, You may find this site interesting, a short history of CAC by Keith Meggs, a former test pilot for the company and Korean War pilot. 

Keith Meggs : The Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation

All the buildings have been demolished now... new factories built on the site. The Bellman hangars that were used for flight testing since WW2 have been dismantled and are being erected at Tyabb Airfield south of Melbourne.

The runway was closed when they built the Westgate Bridge.

The former Government Aircraft Factory (GAF) next door is now owned by Boeing... Hawker de Havilland was also taken over by Boeing and is still operating in at the Boeing site.


----------



## Graeme (Oct 31, 2007)

Thanks for the information..appreciated.


----------



## Neto (Nov 1, 2007)

ok people, someone can help me... what is this?








flying pancake.. i like to know if it is used in ww2 and in positive case what is the main rolle of this aircraft.
bye


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 1, 2007)

Its a V-173 - It was an R&D aircraft that led to the development of the Vought XF5U.


----------



## Neto (Nov 1, 2007)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Its a V-173 - It was an R&D aircraft that led to the development of the Vought XF5U.



ok and the Vought XF5U what is the main role that he supported ?


----------



## matiasf (Nov 8, 2007)

what is this?


----------



## Graeme (Nov 9, 2007)

Koolhoven F.K.57


----------



## matiasf (Nov 9, 2007)

thanks


----------



## Graeme (Nov 12, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Adopting Krabat's 'cropping' technique, here are two more. Both belong to the same manufacturer. That wheel is 6ft 3 in high.



Armstrong Whitworth Ensign and Armstrong Whitworth AW52.


----------



## Graeme (Nov 16, 2007)

A modern one...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 16, 2007)

Looks like a Chengdu J-10.

I am not sure though.


----------



## Graeme (Nov 16, 2007)

A collaboration between the USA and Germany.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 16, 2007)

You got me.


----------



## Graeme (Nov 16, 2007)

Flight test programme commenced 11 October 1990.


----------



## pbfoot (Nov 16, 2007)

I'll try and stump you .


----------



## comiso90 (Nov 16, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Flight test programme commenced 11 October 1990.



X-31A

watch the video:

X-31 Crash

.


----------



## Graeme (Nov 16, 2007)

comiso90 said:


> X-31A



That's him. Thanks for the video Comiso. Nasty looking crash.


----------



## Graeme (Nov 16, 2007)

pbfoot said:


> I'll try and stump you .



The Canadian Car Foundry Maple Leaf II.
Served with the Mexican Air Force?! Known as the Ares Num 2.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Nov 27, 2007)

How about this one?

If that's too easy I've got some more...


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 27, 2007)

Consolidated P-30 - too easy...


----------



## Graeme (Nov 27, 2007)

Martlesham Heath 1936-trialling an experimental 'Steiger' mounting for a remote Lewis gun.

What's the bomber...?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Nov 28, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Martlesham Heath 1936-trialling an experimental 'Steiger' mounting for a remote Lewis gun.



Which plane are you referring to?


And flyboyj, yes, of course it's a P-30. Interesting plane though, first production USAAC fighter with a turbo, retractable gear, and a closed canopy. Though the AAC (rightly) questioned the usefulness of the rear gunner. And it was easy, I have some better ones coming though.


----------



## Grampa (Nov 28, 2007)

Handley Page Heyford?
see Handley Page Heyford


----------



## Wuerger190 (Nov 28, 2007)

Now try _this_ one!

Good luck!


----------



## Graeme (Nov 28, 2007)

Grampa said:


> Handley Page Heyford?
> see Handley Page Heyford



With a modified nose-you got it!



Wuerger190 said:


> Now try _this_ one!
> 
> Good luck!



Tupolev Tu-91 'Boot'


----------



## Wuerger190 (Nov 28, 2007)

V. good. I should've shown the tail turret only!


----------



## kool kitty89 (Nov 28, 2007)

How about this?


----------



## Graeme (Nov 28, 2007)

Bell Airacomet


----------



## kool kitty89 (Nov 28, 2007)

Specifically the last YP-59A built, and the only one using the immproved armament (3x .50 in and a 37mm cannon instead of the 2x 37mm M4 cannons of the other YP's) which would be used on all subsequent models. (first tested on this model)

Now how about this one? Or the one below it, very similar apearance, but completly unrelated.


----------



## Graeme (Nov 28, 2007)

Paper project No.1 is the original XP-59 which was a continued development of the XP-52.

Paper project No.2 is a Soviet design.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Nov 28, 2007)

Yup  These are too easy for you guys, and to think people were struggling with the L-133 sketch earlier in the thread...

And compared to Bell's competitor's designs, the XP-54 XP-55 and XP-56, the XP-59 might have been the only sucessful one, but I guess we'll never know (in any case it would have likely outperformed the P-59A)... Though it looks like it would have been easy to redesign to a jet using a J-33 or Lisesced Goblin engine, the biggest change would probably have been rasing the tailplane.


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 28, 2007)

Here's one.....


----------



## Civettone (Nov 29, 2007)

Kris


----------



## Graeme (Nov 29, 2007)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Here's one.....



The Kinner R-5 Playboy







Civettone said:


> Kris



Hmm...Looks like a Fiat RS.14B or AS14 floatplane, or one of the early prototypes (MM.380), but what happened to the nose Kris?!


----------



## FLYBOYJ (Nov 29, 2007)

Graeme said:


> The Kinner R-5 Playboy


----------



## Civettone (Nov 29, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Hmm...Looks like a Fiat RS.14B or AS14 floatplane, or one of the early prototypes (MM.380), but what happened to the nose Kris?!


Yeah, the AS.14 allright. The nose does seem strange now you mention it!

Kris


----------



## Krabat42 (Nov 30, 2007)

Does anybody know how the XP-52 would have looked like?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Nov 30, 2007)

Basicly like the original XP-59 (not the XP-59A airacomet) but somewhat smaller as it used a 1600 hp Contenental "hyper" engine instead of the 2000 hp "R-2800 double wasp" of the planned XP-59. (a sketch of the XP-59 can be seen on the previous page). Info on XP-52 and XP-59 can be found here: Bell XP-52 Bell P-59 Airacomet (the original xp-59 is metioned at the begining of the second link while the rest is on the Airacomet)

Here's another pic of the XP-59, a wind tunnel model, and the original sketch of what I posted earlier.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Nov 30, 2007)

Gramme what's this? (You posted it earlier on another thread but all you said is it was a French research a/c.)


----------



## paaln (Dec 1, 2007)

kool kitty89 said:


> Gramme what's this? (You posted it earlier on another thread but all you said is it was a French research a/c.)



Nord 1601


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 1, 2007)

Thanks, I was wondering what that was. Now back to the challenges!

Also the XP-59 isn't exclusively a paper project as it at least got as far as wind-tunnel models and development/prototypes had been ordered by the USAAC but the program was killed off as the XP-59A project got underway. 

Another further development (albeit a bit obscure) can be seen in the mock-up below. Anyone want to guess who it was for. (ie. what US military branch or foreign service was it to be used by?)


----------



## Grampa (Dec 2, 2007)

Looks so simular to the SAAB J21


----------



## Matt308 (Dec 2, 2007)

I was thinking the same think, Grampa.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 2, 2007)

It's another Bell project as I said. (related to the XP-59 as seen in the canopy, nose intake, and 3x .50 cal guns in the boom; opposed to the J-21 design) But can you guess which military/military-branch it was built for? (Hint: not the USAAF)


----------



## Glider (Dec 2, 2007)

Bell XP-52 built as a guess for the USMC. If it wasn't for the USAAF then it has to be the USMC. I cannot see how that could land on a carrier.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 3, 2007)

And that's probably why the Navy dropped it. But the mock-up was for USN. 
But it doesn't seen to be that bad as a carrier fighter, wat makes it hard to land (not the tricicle gear as jets have those and in 1945 the FH Phantom did so, so what, the prop position? Though it may have needed 2 arrestor hooks, 1/boom) And it wouldn't have been a version of the XP-52 since 1. the Contenental engine had problems and 2. the navy disliked liquid-cooled engines and the XP-59 was an overall better design.

As I said it was quite obscure and never even reveived a millitary designation, but the original picture clearly states it as a Navy project.

Pic from Air Warfare Forum :: View topic - Bell-XP-59

Still I have to wonder how a jet conversion (J33 or maby a J36 Goblin engine, though the Goblin would better match the smaller/lighter P-52 airframe) of the XP-59 design would hace done, it probably would have required less alterations than the J-21 to J-21R as the R-2800 is larger than the J33 so threr would be ample room. The only major change would have been raising the tailplane above the jet exaust. The XP-59 is also significantly cleaner/sleaker than the J-21. And as said before the original design was the best of its specification, more promising and practical (though still radical) than the XP-54, 55, and 56. It was the only one to have its planned engine available and with a realitively stable airframe (no radically swept wings or tailless designs) and more powerful than the XP-54, and the estimated 450 mph and 950 mi range were none too shabby. (better firepower too) Though it might be pushing it, though if it underperformed with the 2000 hp 2800 ther's always the P-47M/N's 2800 hp model.


----------



## Krabat42 (Dec 3, 2007)

Whoah, thanks kool kitty. That's a lot of new information. I like it when we can expand the "what is it"-topic with some extra infos.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 3, 2007)

Oh no did this P-63 steal a P-80's tail?!  


So what's this bird's model?


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 3, 2007)

Its a P-63F.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 3, 2007)

Yup, one (of the 2 built) is still flying today in the Commemorative air force in Texas. 
It was altered to improve stability and really does look like the the P-80's tail doesn't it. Probably would have improved the P-59's stability as a gun platform if it had been used on it too...


----------



## Dan (Dec 3, 2007)

Here's one, this is probably going to get named correctly within the next 20 seconds of posting this though, but who knows?


----------



## Wildcat (Dec 4, 2007)

Bell XP-77


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 4, 2007)

We're on a roll woth Bell a/c. 

How about this one?


----------



## Wildcat (Dec 4, 2007)

Bell Airacuda.


----------



## Graeme (Dec 4, 2007)

New one. (sorry-poor photo)


----------



## Krabat42 (Dec 4, 2007)

DH Hornet for the poor guys? 

Reid and Sigrist R.S.3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You should have erased the registry code


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 4, 2007)

It does look alot like the early Hornet prototypes though.

How about this one?


----------



## Dan (Dec 4, 2007)

kool kitty89 said:


> How about this one?



I feel like saying ME-262

cant' say what Variant though


----------



## Wurger (Dec 4, 2007)

Also possibility of Su-9


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 4, 2007)

Both are wrong. It's in the same timeframe as the Me 262 though. Maby this will help: it's a prototype variant that didn't emter production.


----------



## Grampa (Dec 5, 2007)

Heinkel He 280 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
That one?


----------



## Graeme (Dec 5, 2007)

kool kitty89 said:


> How about this one?



Is it the Gloster F.9/40M Meteor with the underwing Metrovick F.2 engines?


----------



## Wurger (Dec 5, 2007)

I've thought about Meteor but the air intake to the engine seems to look a bit different.But....


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 5, 2007)

Nope, Grampa. But the He 280 V2 with 004 engines does look alot like that. (the 004 is ironically similar in several other ways to this a/c too )

Some more hints: axial engine, plane saw production (though only one prototype was fitted with this engine model)


Sorry, I missed the last 2 posts. 
Gramme, you're right, it's the "Metrovick Meteor". 

And the progressive development by Heinkel and Gloster are irriely/ironicly similar: Gloster G.40=He 178 Meteor=He 280 Whittle=Ohain As both the G.40 and He 178 were the first jet a/c of their nations powered by jets made by pioneers of the field developing parrellel to eachother using centrifugal compressors. Both Whittle and Ohain were quite young and had developed their ideas as graduates. Both the He 280 and Meteor were the first fighter jets of their respective countries ans both were fitted with a variety of alternative engines, though both had centrifugal engines designed by Ohain and Whittle as the originally intended engines. Both had single prototypes using longer, heavier axial designs fitted as alternate engines. 
Though Ohain had the advantage of being aided by Hinkel early on while Whittle was on his own, though Heinkle wasn't always the best influence on jet development for various factors (though still far better than Rover), he at least was interested and supportive of Ohain early on. While Rover was far worse for Whittle and cost about 2 years of engine development. Rolls-Royce was probably the best thing to happen to Whittle's design and I wonder what would have happened if they'd been chosen initially.


----------



## Graeme (Dec 5, 2007)

Krabat42 said:


> You should have erased the registry code



No markings on this one Krabat!


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 5, 2007)

Is it related to the SNCASO SO.6000 Triton?


----------



## Graeme (Dec 5, 2007)

kool kitty89 said:


> Is it related to the SNCASO SO.6000 Triton?



No it's Italian, around 1960.


----------



## GaryMcL (Dec 5, 2007)

Has a kind of Stelio Frati look to it. Maybe a jet follow-on to the SM.260 and Falco?


----------



## Krabat42 (Dec 6, 2007)

Never heard of Stelio Frati but he did some very nice designs. Obviously not this one but I learned something new again.



> "No markings on this one Krabat!"



Revenge!!


----------



## Graeme (Dec 6, 2007)

GaryMcL said:


> Has a kind of Stelio Frati look to it.



Because it is a Stelio Frati design



Krabat42 said:


> Never heard of Stelio Frati but he did some very nice designs. Obviously not this one but I learned something new again.



Just 'google' Stelio Frati and you will be able to identify this jet.


----------



## GaryMcL (Dec 6, 2007)

Graeme said:


> Because it is a Stelio Frati design
> 
> Just 'google' Stelio Frati and you will be able to identify this jet.



F.1300 Jet Squalus 

Should have dug a little before I posted.

The canopy lines and tail shape are what marked it as a Frati design.


----------



## Graeme (Dec 8, 2007)

GaryMcL said:


> F.1300 Jet Squalus
> 
> Should have dug a little before I posted.
> 
> The canopy lines and tail shape are what marked it as a Frati design.



So close! Should have dug just a little deeper Gary, it's the Cobra F.400.

F.400 Cobra

Stelio Frati


----------



## v2 (Dec 8, 2007)

Here's one.....


----------



## Graeme (Dec 8, 2007)

Is it French?


----------



## v2 (Dec 8, 2007)

Looks like French, but... no.


----------



## Graeme (Dec 8, 2007)

The Lublin R-XX

Lublin R-XX (LWS-1)


----------



## v2 (Dec 9, 2007)

Next one:


----------



## Graeme (Dec 9, 2007)

PZL.44

PZL.44 Wicher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Wurger (Dec 10, 2007)

V2 it was too easy for Graeme.
He needs something unexpected.

Maybe like this one.


----------



## Graeme (Dec 11, 2007)

You guys aren't ganging up on me are you?!

Wurger, it looks Soviet but the wheel spats have thrown me. It looks like a Grigorovich I-Z with the ARK recoilless cannons.





Close?


----------



## Wurger (Dec 11, 2007)

Bingo.And what I have said.You are the best Greame.It was Grigorovich I-Z plane.
Could I ask you a question? Do you really know all shapes of all planes? How big HD do you have in you head? 

There another pic of the plane.Believe in the description below the pic, Stalin was in the cockpit.
Next time I will find something unknown.


----------



## Graeme (Dec 11, 2007)

> And what I have said.You are the best Greame.



No, I'm not..have a look at some of these people and images..

AviaQuiz - Name That Plane!



> Could I ask you a question?



Certainly!



> Do you really know all shapes of all planes?



No! I think it was John W.R. Taylor who estimated that by *1978* approximately *34,000 different* aircraft (multiple versions excluded!) had been built. 



> How big HD do you have in you head?



What does HD mean?



> There another pic of the plane.Believe in the description below the pic, Stalin was in the cockpit.



You have a great collection of Soviet/Russian photos! Like I said, I have never seen images of the I-Z with wheel spats. Thanks for posting them.



> Next time I will find something unknown.



Please do. That's the fun of the thread.


----------



## Wurger (Dec 11, 2007)

Graeme said:


> What does HD mean?



Hard disk,but there should be HDD.
And THX for your kind words.


----------



## wingnuts (Dec 11, 2007)

I think HD = Hard Disk


----------



## Wurger (Dec 11, 2007)

Yes Wingnuts you are right.

But there is next pic for Greame.How about now?


----------



## Graeme (Dec 12, 2007)

The Mitsubishi Army Type 93-1 Heavy Bomber (Ki-1-I)


----------



## Wurger (Dec 12, 2007)

I've known you wouldn't disappointed me at all.Yea it is Mitsubishi Ki1-1.

And now?


----------



## Graeme (Dec 12, 2007)

Lavochkin La-250

...getting back to your Japanese theme, what's this one?


----------



## v2 (Dec 12, 2007)

Kawasaki Ki- 5


----------



## Wurger (Dec 12, 2007)

Unfortunately V2 was too quick.Yes it is Kawasaki Ki-5.This one in your drawings is from 1933.In my from 1937.


----------



## Wurger (Dec 12, 2007)

And yes the plane in above posted pic is Lavochkin La-250
There another pic of it in flight.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 12, 2007)

Wow an inline on a japanese fighter... The mostly went with radials in WWII service craft. Except for the Ki-61 Hien (based on the He 100) with the DB-601 copy.


Now what's wrong with these first 2 pictures and not with the last:


----------



## Krabat42 (Dec 13, 2007)

Pic 1: No wing guns on the Vampire

Pic 2: Looks o.k. for me

Pic 3: Fritz-X Missiles on the Vampire? Bought clandestinely from some german "Überläufer"?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 13, 2007)

The third pic has the correct nose-cannons. 

If you look closely on the 2nd one you'll see the wing-cannons firing. Or are those just tips of 4 bombs/rockets poking-out, that would make more sense. Especially since it would just be the box art that's wrong.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 14, 2007)

In pict 2 the are probably bomb-tips, since that level was a bombing mission iirc.

And those aren't Fritz-X's I'm not sure what they are though, but the Fritz-X looks much different...


----------



## Graeme (Dec 15, 2007)

Something much older...


----------



## Krabat42 (Dec 19, 2007)

> And those aren't Fritz-X's I'm not sure what they are though, but the Fritz-X looks much different...



Sorry, I meant Kramer X-4, not Fritz X. Sometimes it's hard to be a German...


----------



## v2 (Jan 4, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Something much older...


----------



## AVRoe (Jan 4, 2008)

Can i ask what these are Thanks
View attachment 52834


----------



## Graeme (Jan 4, 2008)

v2 said:


>



The Nieuport London of 1920. Made with tongue-and-groove 'floor boards' fastened with nails, wooden pegs and dowels. The only curved contours being the fin's leading edges and the engine nacelles. Bomb load was an impressive nine 250lb bombs.








AVRoe said:


> Can i ask what these are Thanks
> View attachment 52834


Dornier 23G


----------



## AVRoe (Jan 4, 2008)

Graeme 
Thanks mate


----------



## Marcel (Jan 6, 2008)

Okay, what's this?


----------



## Graeme (Jan 6, 2008)

Marcel said:


> Okay, what's this?



Thought I would try and answer in Dutch.  





From the same book, was it ever built Marcel?


----------



## Wurger (Jan 6, 2008)

Ha,ha... no mercy for Marcel.


----------



## Krabat42 (Jan 7, 2008)

He had it coming  And now that I'm back, my best wishes for 2008 to all of you. May we always find a strange picture to post it here.


----------



## Wurger (Jan 7, 2008)

THX Krabat42,same to you.


----------



## Marcel (Jan 7, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Thought I would try and answer in Dutch.
> 
> From the same book, was it ever built Marcel?



Very good Graeme, only if you would have typed it in dutch I would have been more impressed . For your question, the T.9 it was built, but never developed ifurther than prototype stage, due to the German invasion in 1940. The F.XXIV never came further than the drawingboard.


----------



## Graeme (Jan 7, 2008)

Marcel said:


> The F.XXIV never came further than the drawingboard.



Thanks Marcel for the translation/answer. It looked a little like a wind tunnel model of the DC-5.

New one...


----------



## Krabat42 (Jan 15, 2008)

I've seen this thing before, I'm sure... Maybe a Bristol design?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jan 18, 2008)

It could be French...


----------



## Krabat42 (Jan 21, 2008)

I'm sure it's british. The letter "K" is probably from a UK-registration. I know I've seen this one...


----------



## A4K (Jan 21, 2008)

I'm in the same boat as Krabat. I've seen this thing before., and think it was a British engine test-bed or something. can't remember off-hand what the hell it was called, or who produced it. Will get back to you on it if I remember, or get a chance to check it out on the net.


----------



## paaln (Jan 21, 2008)

Only thing I find that looks like it is Armstong Whitworths answer to Specification P.27/32 (2 seat, single engine day bomber, 200 mph, 1,000lb bomb load, 1,000 mile range), the A.W. 29. 2 built. Designed by John Lloyd. At least according to my Putnam British Bomber book...


----------



## pbfoot (Jan 21, 2008)

that undercarriage looks pretty weak ...no oleos


----------



## Krabat42 (Jan 22, 2008)

Yeah, that must be the one, the Armstrong Whitworth A.W.29. The price goes to... Tatatataaa... paaln. And he may give us the next question.

Found the plane here:

Armstrong Whitworth A.W.29

Graeme, do you have an uncropped picture of the plane?


----------



## Graeme (Jan 24, 2008)

Just returned from annual leave.



Krabat42 said:


> Yeah, that must be the one, the Armstrong Whitworth A.W.29. The price goes to... Tatatataaa... paaln. And he may give us the next question.



That's the one. The Armstrong Whitworth A.W.29.


Krabat42 said:


> Graeme, do you have an uncropped picture of the plane?



Sorry Krabat, but no, just thought it was an interesting shot of its ungainly undercarriage.


----------



## Krabat42 (Jan 25, 2008)

Glad you're back Graeme. Looks like it was a nice holiday.

And I'm sure you have another picture for us


----------



## Graeme (Jan 25, 2008)

paaln said:


> At least according to my Putnam British Bomber book...



This should be easy then paaln, from the same book!...photo and 3-view...


----------



## F-14 (Jan 27, 2008)

is it the fierfly sorwdfish RNAC


----------



## Graeme (Jan 28, 2008)

F-14 said:


> is it the fierfly sorwdfish RNAC



Nope.


----------



## Krabat42 (Jan 28, 2008)

Vickers Type 253. Got the book too now.  Strange wing planform.

And here's the new one:


----------



## Graeme (Jan 28, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Vickers Type 253. Got the book too now.



Damn, my ammunition is getting lower!



Krabat42 said:


> And here's the new one:



I have to try and beat Wurger on this one! The MiG SN, a variant of the MiG-17, with lateral intakes. It was the first Soviet fighter with such intakes? It was also designed to utilise a gun system that could pivot in the vertical plane. Something similar was intended for the Curtiss F-87 Blackhawk.


----------



## Grampa (Jan 28, 2008)

some sort of an modificated MIG-15 whit moving cannons?


----------



## Krabat42 (Jan 29, 2008)

It's the MiG SN a, variant of the MiG-17. Graeme is right. But Grampa, you're not far away. I should have erased the Red Star. 

I think it would have made a good night fighter. Lots of room for a large radar if you delete the cannon mounts. Maybe two fixed 23mm cannons and two early AAM's would have been a good armament, sufficent for almost everything.

O.K. Next one?


----------



## Krabat42 (Jan 29, 2008)

O.K. Next one, found on the web:


----------



## wingnuts (Jan 29, 2008)

Another strange one from the Brits, mid 30s...


----------



## Graeme (Jan 29, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> O.K. Next one, found on the web:



Applying the AviaQuiz principle of 'simplicity' Krabat I'm just going to call it the Caudron Simoun, made famous by Antione de Saint Exupery. (possibly C.635 or C.635M?)



wingnuts said:


> Another strange one from the Brits, mid 30s...



Wingnut, you've got the remarkable Parnall Prawn, which could alter the thrust line of the engine to escape spray and improve take off from the water. The engine was 'borrowed' from the R101 airship.





Got two for you Krabat (if you accept my answer above!) Both are postwar German designs and produced by the *SAME* firm. Hope you can't read the registration on the first one!


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Jan 30, 2008)

Hi Graeme,

my good friend Krabat asked me if i perhaps knew those two birds. I´d say we have here the Puetzer Bussard (large b/w) and the nice little Puetzer Elster B. Correct?

Christopher

How about this:


----------



## Graeme (Jan 30, 2008)

Hi Christopher,



p47thunderbolt said:


> I´d say we have here the Puetzer Bussard (large b/w) and the nice little Puetzer Elster B. Correct?



Correct! Do you know much about the Bussard? According to the internet one was restored in 1977 but its fate was "unknown". Interesting aircraft. The little detail that came with the photo explained that the engine was in the nose driving a pusher prop by a 19ft 8 in "flexibly-mounted" shaft. 



p47thunderbolt said:


> How about this:



Looks like the Koolhoven FK 56.


----------



## wingnuts (Jan 30, 2008)

"Wingnut, you've got the remarkable Parnall Prawn, which could alter the thrust line of the engine to escape spray and improve take off from the water. The engine was 'borrowed' from the R101 airship."

Yep, I found it while chasing around the net trying to find out what the Swordfish looking machine was.... that turned out tobe the Vickers Type 253.

Parnell also made a competitor for Specification G4/31 that looked very similar (see attached).

Probably a good idea putting the R101 engine in the Prawn after seeing what happend to the R101. I used to work at Cardington where the old R101/R100 hangars are ... back in the 1970s.... they are still there, very impressive.

Airshipsonline : Sheds : Cardingtom

Cardington Airship Hangars @ Fotopic.Net


----------



## Krabat42 (Jan 31, 2008)

Yap, Koolhoven F.K.56. That was fast.


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Jan 31, 2008)

Graeme,

most remarkable how fast you answered. The level in this forum indeed is extremely high. I have not the slightest idea what became of the Bussard. During the 1970s we Germans still tended to scrap any ecomomically useless aircraft...so i fear it is gone.


----------



## Graeme (Jan 31, 2008)

Two more...


----------



## Graeme (Jan 31, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> I have not the slightest idea what became of the Bussard.



So Chris, fess up, HOW did you locate the Bussard?? (is that German for Buzzard?) All I have is that picture from 1961 with a caption and its registration, D-EHIV...

D-EH

And I was pretty sure that it was illegible on the posted photo. 

Cheers,
Graeme.


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Jan 31, 2008)

Well, there´s a book "50 Jahre deutsche Motorflugzeuge" (50 years of german motor planes ) by Rolf Wurster which lists about any obscure german aircraft built after the war (after 1945 we built MOSTLY obscure aircraft......). I just had to look under Puetzer to find an article about the Bussard (=Buzzard, you´re correct again). The last thing i know about the D-EHIV (from the web) is that in 1973 was still registered to Horten and in 1977 was deleted from the register.


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 1, 2008)

Hey friends, I've no idea yet about Graeme's two, but I'm working on it. And now for something completey different: Would you please look at my "Airlines and Manuacturers of the 1920's" thread? Maybe you could help me and my colleagues.

Thanks in advance,
Krabat


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 1, 2008)

Grame, those two are confusing. The first one obvious is some variant of the T-28 (remember the recent Fennec display at the Hahnweide, Krabat?). But it is neither a NA-159, nor a XT-28, nor any version of the T-28, also no Fennec, Normair or Nomad. All got that fin on the back. What´s it indeed?.

The other one should be a Mitsubishi B2M2, though the shape of the rudder doesn´t fit 100%. Maybe it still is one?


----------



## Graeme (Feb 1, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> Well, there´s a book "50 Jahre deutsche Motorflugzeuge" (50 years of german motor planes ) by Rolf Wurster which lists about any obscure german aircraft built after the war



Sounds like a very interesting read Christopher.



p47thunderbolt said:


> The first one obvious is some variant of the T-28



Not related to the T-28 or a product of the North American company. A clue would be-what was a competitor in a design competition in 1950 to find a new primary trainer? It was also evaluated by the US Navy.



p47thunderbolt said:


> The other one should be a Mitsubishi B2M2, though the shape of the rudder doesn´t fit 100%. Maybe it still is one?



Not a Mitsubishi product. Much further down the alphabet of Japanese aircraft companies.


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 1, 2008)

OK, Fairchild XNQ / T-31. Thanks for the hint. High resemblace, truly!


----------



## Graeme (Feb 1, 2008)

Yep, it's the Fairchild Chris.


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 3, 2008)

Graeme,

regarding the japanese Bird i give up. Maybe somebody else can solve this?


----------



## Graeme (Feb 3, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> Graeme,
> 
> regarding the japanese Bird i give up. Maybe somebody else can solve this?



These may help Chris, but they're all I could find on the net last night. Appears to be an aircraft that aviation has forgotten. I must confess that the photo I posted was uncaptioned, so I'm making an assumption as to its true identity, but I think that these are it;


----------



## Wurger (Feb 3, 2008)

This is Yokosuka B3Y1.The aircraft bomber looks a bit different in Greame's pic from the colour profile of Choroszy Modelbud model top-box.But I think it is.


----------



## Wurger (Feb 4, 2008)

So a biplane is a biplane, can you tell me what it is?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 4, 2008)

To me that is a Vickers Vildebeest. True?


----------



## Wurger (Feb 4, 2008)

Oh... I've tought it wouldn't be easy to guess but it was .
Bingo P47thunderbolt.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 5, 2008)

Wurger said:


> This is Yokosuka B3Y1.The aircraft bomber looks a bit different in Greame's pic from the colour profile of Choroszy Modelbud model top-box.But I think it is.



Thanks for the confirmation on the B3Y1 Wurger. The tail of the profile painting does look slightly different to the photo I posted.

Another trainer to identify...


----------



## A4K (Feb 6, 2008)

I knew it too, Wurger! Did you know that if it had a drop tank instead of a torpedo underneath, it would have been a Vickers Vincent?


----------



## Wurger (Feb 6, 2008)

Interesting A4K.


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 7, 2008)

No idea yet, Graeme. But I'm working on it. It's a strange combination of modern (canopy) and classic (tail) features. And the cowling looks somewhat like a Yak-11.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 7, 2008)

It's Italian Krabat.


----------



## A4K (Feb 7, 2008)

I think it might be Russian - it has a bit of a Sukhoi/ Lavochkin look about the motor and canopy to me. There appears to be the remains of a Norwegian or Ukranian roundel on the fueslage - very faint, behind the canopy. The tail interestingly looks almost British in design.


----------



## A4K (Feb 7, 2008)

Do you know what this is already Graeme? Is it actually Italian?
If so, I guess it could be a SIAI Machetti machine of some sort.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 7, 2008)

There's some confusion here A4K. In this case I know the identity of the trainer, your job is to identify it.

Definitely Italian, but not a SIAI-Marchetti product.


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 7, 2008)

Looks like a Macchi MB323 to me.


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 7, 2008)

Here´s another one. Should not be too hard for our experts.....


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 7, 2008)

French, definitely french. Looks somewhat like Arsenal, Morane or Devoitine.


----------



## Evil_Merlin (Feb 7, 2008)

M.S.470 Vanneau?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 7, 2008)

Excellent, Merlin! To be exact, a MS 475, the predecessor 470 had a somewhat different cowling and engine.

This is a MS470:






and here´s another view of the 475:


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 7, 2008)

To close the case on the MS 475, doesn´t this picture look completely silly? What a goofy gear......


----------



## Evil_Merlin (Feb 8, 2008)

That sure is some strange gear. The wheels kinda dangle until retracted fully. Strange.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 8, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> Looks like a Macchi MB323 to me.



That's the one Chris.



p47thunderbolt said:


> To close the case on the MS 475, doesn´t this picture look completely silly? What a goofy gear......


Very interesting photo Chris. Thats got to be the most unusual undercarriage retraction sequence that I've seen?!

New one to solve...


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 8, 2008)

A norwegian Honningstad 5A Finnmark?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Feb 8, 2008)

The P-36s and P-40s had similarly strange gear with the wheels rotating to perpendicular (wheel sides face forward) before folding rearward instead of inward or outward. (this mechanism was a Boeing design iirc)


----------



## Graeme (Feb 8, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> A norwegian Honningstad 5A Finnmark?



Chris, I thought that one might have gone for a page or two! Well done!


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 9, 2008)

There are a lot of geese in Norway...


----------



## Graeme (Feb 9, 2008)

I'll try one more trainer...


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 9, 2008)

un altro aereoitaliano......Piaggio P. 150


----------



## v2 (Feb 9, 2008)

Next one for you, experts:


----------



## Wurger (Feb 10, 2008)

Flying TOILETTES-W-C ?


----------



## Graeme (Feb 10, 2008)

Well done V2!

"Est-ce que je peux aller au toilette?"

Is it French?


----------



## v2 (Feb 10, 2008)

Wurger said:


> Flying TOILETTES-W-C ?



Nope Wurger- try again  

Yes Graeme, it is French....


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 10, 2008)

This might become an interesting thing considering the clue you guys are currently working on....


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 11, 2008)

Strange smell  Is it one of these Payen Prototypes?


----------



## v2 (Feb 11, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Strange smell  Is it one of these Payen Prototypes?



Nope, it isn't...


----------



## Graeme (Feb 11, 2008)

Would we find this aircraft on the internet V2?  Did it actually get to fly?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 11, 2008)

Tough nut, though i saw one of those on a merry-go-round last year on the Munich Octoberfest....


----------



## v2 (Feb 11, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Would we find this aircraft on the internet V2?  Did it actually get to fly?


Yes, Graeme- it is a photo from Internet... I found it for you


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 12, 2008)

And indeed it did fly. The Fauvel AV-10


----------



## Graeme (Feb 12, 2008)

Well done Chris! What an amazing looking aircraft!


----------



## v2 (Feb 12, 2008)

Yes, well done


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 12, 2008)

Thanks, that was hard work... 

How about this for some r r:


----------



## Graeme (Feb 12, 2008)

Graeme said:


> You got the Russian part right Wurger.





Krabat42 said:


> The "150", developed by the team around Brunolf Baade.




Unfortunately Chris we had this one last September
Have another go.


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 12, 2008)

No way to beat you guys. Going back to biplanes:


----------



## Graeme (Feb 13, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> Going back to biplanes



Wish you hadn't!

Not having much luck with this one either Chris. I'm thinking European, possibly Czechoslovakian (Avia or Aero) or even Rumanian (S.E.T. 10 light biplane) based entirely on that 'roundish' looking tailfin. Am I even close?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 13, 2008)

European yes, but you are still a bit away......8)


----------



## A4K (Feb 13, 2008)

Is that a Stieglitz, Thunderbolt?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 13, 2008)

Sorry, A4K, that´s no Stieglitz...


----------



## A4K (Feb 13, 2008)

Heinkel zwei und siebzig Kadett?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 13, 2008)

OK, here is a hint for that biplane. Cryptic, but certainly helpful:


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 13, 2008)

Ooops, no Kadett also........nice try, however..


----------



## A4K (Feb 13, 2008)

Flying boats..?? Is this going to end up being a Dornier? 

..Has a bit of a Flettner tail to it...


----------



## Graeme (Feb 13, 2008)

Found it in 'Die deutschen Flugzeuge 1933-1945.'

*Then* your clue made sense,* Williamsburg*, home of Blohm and Voss.

The Blohm and Voss Ha 135.

Blohm und Voss Aircraft

Very clever Chris!


----------



## Grampa (Feb 13, 2008)




----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 13, 2008)

Well done Graeme! And, A4K, you were soooo close, the Heinkel Kadett is said to have been designed by the same team that also designed the Ha135.

By the way, apologies for the cryptic clue, it´s Harry Truman aboard the USS Eagle, the former Horst Wessel, one of the most beautiful ships Blohm and Voss ever built.....i tried to make it not too easy.

By the way, this is a fun forum, and always challenging. Thanks to all you veterans for letting me greenhorn participate...


----------



## Graeme (Feb 13, 2008)

Grampa said:


>



Grampa, it's the Grokhovskii Kukuracha. Experimental Soviet pusher made of wood, ply and fabric which experienced _"structural failure on take-off". _



p47thunderbolt said:


> By the way, apologies for the cryptic clue, it´s Harry Truman aboard the USS Eagle, the former Horst Wessel, one of the most beautiful ships Blohm and Voss ever built.....i tried to make it not too easy.



I couldn't get your clue right, even with the answer! I Googled "Truman's Yacht" and got the SS Williamsburg which I thought was the ship building site for Blohm and Voss, but in fact it's Hamburg? 

(Technically, is it Blohm *und* Voss or Blohm *and* Voss or doesn't it matter?)

New angle on the quiz...What's this?...


----------



## Grampa (Feb 14, 2008)

That whas a fast "kill" on my question Graeme. Has this picture been up before?


----------



## Graeme (Feb 14, 2008)

Grampa said:


> That whas a fast "kill" on my question Graeme. Has this picture been up before?



I don't know if it has been on this forum before, I just remembered seeing it in an encyclopedia on Russian aircraft. Not a lot on the net about it. Where did you find your image Grampa?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 14, 2008)

Graeme, is that a helicopter?

About Blohm Voss, they´re "und" in german, "nd" in english. Were and are Germany´s largest shipbuilders and most the prominent industry firm in Hamburg.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 14, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> Graeme, is that a helicopter?



Sure is!


----------



## fly boy (Feb 14, 2008)

lancaster the plane in your name sunk the tirpiz not a spitfire


----------



## Grampa (Feb 14, 2008)

From the G-39 Cucaracha by P.I.Grokhovskij


----------



## A4K (Feb 15, 2008)

I thought that was a strip pole in some rich bugger's private plane, Graeme


----------



## Graeme (Feb 15, 2008)

Clue?
The company that made this...





Also made this...


----------



## Graeme (Feb 15, 2008)

A4K said:


> I thought that was a strip pole in some rich bugger's private plane, Graeme


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 16, 2008)

The Cessna CH-1 Skyhook





What a weird bird,.. 

everything about it:

Cessna Helicopter

and the Cessna 620





I never knew that company did produce anthing than the omnipresent 150/152 diet....

By the way, Graeme, it reads "Cessna" on the hangar in the background of the 620 photo. Helped a bit....


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 16, 2008)

Ok, now for something completely different.....


----------



## Graeme (Feb 16, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> By the way, Graeme, it reads "Cessna" on the hangar in the background of the 620 photo.



I saw the optometrist on Thursday and will receive my reading glasses soon. (no joke!)

Hmmm...German? glider from the 20's or 30's, possibly the Granau Baby? (gotta start somewhere!).


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 16, 2008)

It is german, but it is not the Grunau Baby. This one is far less known but far more important.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 16, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> It is german, but it is not the Grunau Baby. This one is far less known but far more important.



Anything to do with Friedrich Wilhelm Sander and progression to the RAK-1 (Opel rocket)?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 17, 2008)

no connection to Sander and the RAK-1 whatsoever.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 18, 2008)

Absolutely no idea Chris. Limited personal resources on gliders and very disappointed with my google searches, so I cry "uncle" 

Edit: One last attempt. Is that a twin tail?





Possibly the DFS Hangwind?

The Virtual Aviation Museum - Kategorie Gliders and Powered Gliders 1919 to 1938


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 18, 2008)

OK.....barrage of hints

It´s a very historic glider......kind of the Wright Flyer of gliders. In fact, it is one of the most important aircraft ever built in Germany - though most people just overlook it.

first one ever to use upwinds at slopes

first glider to perfomr a circle flight

first one to stay aloft one hour

first one to stay aloft three hours

first one to reach 350m above start height

Set the design principles for all gliders that came after it.

won a lot of prizes

Fortunately it is still with us:





And, last hint, one of the people involved in building it, later headed the design of quite a few important aircraft, amongst them this one:


----------



## A4K (Feb 18, 2008)

I can't remember off hand what this is called, but have got info on it in a book at home- will check it out tonight!


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 18, 2008)

HA! Got it! The HAWA Vampyr. Never heard of that before, I'm not familiar with gliders. But with so many hints  

HAWA Vampyr - Wikipedia

You owe me a Störtebeker for that one, Chris  

Krabat


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 18, 2008)

Done deal, Krabat!

The unedited image:


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 18, 2008)

O.K. Next one:


----------



## Graeme (Feb 18, 2008)

The Kocherghin (also seen it spelt Kochyerigin) Di-6.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 18, 2008)

If the above is correct, here's two to consider. Both are pushers with twin booms. One built just before WWII, the other just after...


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 18, 2008)

the second one looks a lot like a Bendix 51


----------



## A4K (Feb 18, 2008)

Wouldn't have a clue what the new one is, but remembered the Vampyr while I was working!


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 18, 2008)

A4K, good job, again (as with the Ha 135) at least a 50% kill for you....


----------



## A4K (Feb 18, 2008)

Danke Donnerschlag! das war ganz nett von Dir! Fünfzig prozent ist besser als nichts, gell?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 18, 2008)

Respekt, A4K, tolles Deutsch............oder bist Du Deutscher?


----------



## Graeme (Feb 18, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> the second one looks a lot like a Bendix 51







Wow! They do look similar. But no, it's not the Bendix. Made by a company that produced numerous postwar delta-winged jets.

Top one is Italian.


----------



## wingnuts (Feb 18, 2008)

It looks a lot like a Bell design but I can't find any details


----------



## wingnuts (Feb 18, 2008)

I found this in the same general arrangment .........but siller looking


----------



## Graeme (Feb 18, 2008)

wingnuts said:


> I found this in the same general arrangment .........but siller looking



The Stearman-Hammond Model Y-1S.

No doubt about it Wingnut, a very common layout for aircraft. Here's the British Arpin and the Dutch Fokker Promoter as further examples...


----------



## A4K (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks again, Thunderbolt! No, I'm a kiwi, but I lived in Wien (Vienna) for 3 and a half years. Haven't spoken German in the eight years since then though, so I've forgotten alot unfortunately (lost my Swedish and Spanish the same way!)


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 19, 2008)

So you speak austrian, not german. That's a huuuuuge difference


----------



## wingnuts (Feb 19, 2008)

Graeme said:


> The Stearman-Hammond Model Y-1S.
> 
> No doubt about it Wingnut, a very common layout for aircraft. Here's the British Arpin and the Dutch Fokker Promoter as further examples...
> 
> ...


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 20, 2008)

Useful aircraft the Airtruk. Put a few sidewinders and amraams on it and you can rename it Boomerang II... 

Graeme, if it is not the Bendix, probably the Convair Skycoach?


----------



## Graeme (Feb 20, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> Graeme, if it is not the Bendix, probably the Convair Skycoach?



Well done Chris! First flown in April 1946 with a 230hp Franklin engine. Performance was poor. With a maximum speed of 142mph it compared badly to the Beech Bonanza's 165mph on 165hp. Development was abandoned.


----------



## A4K (Feb 20, 2008)

Verdammt, du bist ja gut, Donnerchlag!  

You and Graeme amaze the hell out of me the way you can figure out the types you haven't even seen before! 

How do yas do it???!!!


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 21, 2008)

Putting AMRAAMs and Sidewiders on an Airtruk is cheating. Putting lots of children and some australian actor in it is cinema. When I first saw the movie I couldn't believe it was a real aicraft. Australians, eh  One for the "form follows function" people.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 21, 2008)

It had a long multi-cultural history. Designed by an Italian, Luigi Pellarini, for a Sydney based company called Kingsford Smith Aviation Service Pty. Ltd. as the PL-7 tanker, which first flew in September 1956.





Bennett Aviation Ltd in New Zealand altered the PL-7 to produce the Bennett P.L.11 Airtruck in 1960. 





Bennett then became Waitomo.





And then Back to Australia in 1965, Transavia Corporation Pty. Ltd. refined the design to become the PL-12 Airtruck.

And you're right Krabat, 'Mad Max' put it in the world spotlight.


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 21, 2008)

Whoa! Impressive! Got nothing to say except maybe you could trace it back to some sketch by leonardo daVinci?  I know what Chris will say: Stick some eight .50's in the wings and maybe a tailgunner with another four and install a P&W R-2800. By the way, he's a terrible tailgunner. Always shooting off his own tail


----------



## Graeme (Feb 22, 2008)

Unanswered from the previous page. This was the Saiman LB-2






New one to try...


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 22, 2008)

Sud-Est SE 212 Durandal?

Gotta go back to work now, boss is coming.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 22, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Sud-Est SE 212 Durandal?
> 
> Gotta go back to work now, boss is coming.



Good call Krabat, and while under pressure as well!


----------



## v2 (Feb 22, 2008)

I found something interesting for you, guys....


----------



## Grampa (Feb 22, 2008)

Is that stabel in flight


----------



## Graeme (Feb 22, 2008)

Russian V2?


----------



## Graeme (Feb 23, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Russian V2?



No. Polish. Jaroslaw Naleszkiewicz's J.N 1 experimental tailless sailplane named Zabus II (Froggy II).

New one...


----------



## v2 (Feb 23, 2008)

Graeme said:


> No. Polish. Jaroslaw Naleszkiewicz's J.N 1 experimental tailless sailplane named Zabus II (Froggy II).


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 25, 2008)

Yeah, the good old "crop-the-picture"-approach. I like that. This one's the Blackburn B-54. Got killed because of the Fairey Gannett, which was my first thought on this one.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 25, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> This one's the Blackburn B-54.



No doubt about it Krabat. The Blackburn B-54 serial no. WB 788. It was photographed at Boscombe Down somewhere around 1950 sporting a small aerodynamic 'fix' under the tailplane which almost cured rudder tramping.


----------



## A4K (Feb 25, 2008)

I was thinking along Gannet lines too, but something didn't seem quite right


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 25, 2008)

Graeme, of course you also know the name of the photographer, his white haired grandmother and the colour of the shoes he wore on this day? You left it out only because you're such a modest guy  

Impressed as always,
Krabat


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 26, 2008)

O.K., next one.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 26, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> O.K., next one.



Hi Krabat!

MiG-21I "Analog"

Interesting aircraft Krabat. The 'name' depends on which decade the reference book was published. From the 80's it was called the MiG A-144. From the 90's it was called the Mig 21I Analog. Either way it was derived from a Mig 21S in order to investigate the wing for the Tupolev Tu-144. But the silly thing was that the Analog flew two years later than planned, such that the paint was dry and Tu-144 SSS-68001 was already undergoing ground testing. 









(Do you want the photographer's name and shoe size Krabat?  Where's Chris these days?)

Back to me. Another one...


----------



## Grampa (Feb 26, 2008)

The only thing I can say that this plane has the main body from an Sukhoi Su-11. But the wings?


----------



## Grampa (Feb 26, 2008)

Ok Sorry I lose


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 26, 2008)

> (Do you want the photographer's name and shoe size Krabat? Where's Chris these days?)



Well, I could go with his GRU-file this time.  Chris is fine, he emailed me an hour ago. I will see him tomorrow in my kitchen. He's very good at killing my stores of czech beers. Gotta find something to keep him busy, maybe peeling potatoes. 

For the new one, I've no idea yet. Looks american, right? Big radial. But the tail is strange.

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Feb 26, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Looks american, right? Krabat



Right!


----------



## Storch (Feb 26, 2008)

Hello every bodys!

Northrop?Or is it a famous company?


----------



## A4K (Feb 26, 2008)

Is it a Vought aircraft? Prototype of the the Kingfisher or similar?


----------



## Storch (Feb 26, 2008)

Vultee V-11 GB2F.

Now what about it:


----------



## Graeme (Feb 26, 2008)

Storch said:


> Vultee V-11 GB2F.



Correct!


----------



## Storch (Feb 26, 2008)

I'm sorry I have a problem to post my photo.

So I give you my place Graeme but I just want to re-take it (I don't know if the word exist (scuse me)) when I will could put my photo.

Best weshes;


----------



## Graeme (Feb 27, 2008)

Storch said:


> I'm sorry I have a problem to post my photo.
> 
> So I give you my place Graeme but I just want to re-take it (I don't know if the word exist (scuse me)) when I will could put my photo.
> 
> Best weshes;



Your photo uploaded fine, on this side of the world Storch. (Welcome to the forum by the way!)





It's the Government-built Mexican Scout Biplane, officially termed a _Microplano _


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 27, 2008)

Welcome, Storch. Always good to see a new face in this thread. And nice one on the Vultee. Never heard of that before.


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 27, 2008)

O.K. here's a quick and easy one.


----------



## A4K (Feb 27, 2008)

Welcome to the forum Storch!

Is this a Junkers W-something Krabat?


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 27, 2008)

Let's say it's a Junkers.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 27, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> O.K. here's a quick and easy one.



Junkers K 53 or in Swedish the AB Flygindustri K 53

Junkers Aircraft of the Twenties

A famous Australian aviator designed and flew this one...


----------



## Storch (Feb 27, 2008)

Thank you for your welcome!!

Glamouration Graeme beaucose The Microplano was not very easy.I'm very surprised thet you find immediatly the palne without indications  

For the new one, I'm searching 8) ...


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 27, 2008)

> I'm very surprised thet you find immediatly the palne without indications



Well, you got to know that Graeme is sitting all day long behind his keyboard surrounded by aviation books and waiting for quiz-pictures. I'm sure his wife brings him coffee and cookies every hour or so.  He knows that the world will end the day when he's unable to identify a plane. There's even a religion built around this, so it must be true.


----------



## Storch (Feb 27, 2008)

I have maybe somthing difficult for Graeme but I must find his quiz who's not easy...

The plane is American?


----------



## Graeme (Feb 28, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> I'm sure his wife brings him coffee and cookies every hour or so.



You're just jealous Krabat! Besides we drink 'tea'.  



Storch said:


> The plane is American?



No. It's Australian designed (by Bert Hinkler) and was registered in Britain. That's Hinkler on the right.





He named it after this bird...


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 28, 2008)

> You're just jealous Krabat!



Of course.  



> Besides we drink 'tea'.



Yes, me too. Made me a cup of darjeeling one minute ago. As I always say. You don't have to be ashamed for having style.


----------



## A4K (Feb 28, 2008)

So its an Ibis? The tail looks Airspeed-ish. So, the 'Airspeed Ibis' ?


----------



## Graeme (Feb 28, 2008)

The HINKLER Ibis. Discussed it with the judges, A4K's answer is the winner. Anyone who can identify an Ibis bird should win!  

Bert Hinkler's Aircraft


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 28, 2008)

So THAT'S an Ibis. I was thinking about some stork relatives, but the Ibis didn't come up. Learned something new.


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 28, 2008)

O.K. Another one. I'm a mean bastard.


----------



## Storch (Feb 28, 2008)

French?


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 28, 2008)

Yes, it's a french type.


----------



## A4K (Feb 28, 2008)

That roundel looks very low on the fueslage, but I'm going to hazard a guess at it being a Nieuport, maybe a 16 or 17?


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 28, 2008)

Nope, not a Nieuport. But one hint: The roundel is not french.


----------



## Captain Dunsel (Feb 28, 2008)

From the number of longerons and the flat-tish side, I'd guess a Spad 7 or 13 (Not a 2-seater, as I can't see signs of a gunner's cockpit). Too bad I don't know sleeve rank of those days, 'cause that might help figure out if the roundel is RAF, Belgian, or Italian. The kicking horse art work just doesn't look British to me, though.

CD


----------



## A4K (Feb 28, 2008)

To me neither CD, one thought was it might be a Cierva Autogiro


----------



## thirtybg (Feb 28, 2008)

Francesco Baracca's Spad (VII?)... easy-cheesy...


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 29, 2008)

Yep, that's the one. Baracca's SPAD VII. Very good, Captain Dunsel. And an extra point to thirtybg for knowing the picture. For those who don't know the story: Ferrari was big fan of Baraaca's and he asked Baracca's mom to allow him to use the Cavallino rampante on his cars.

Krabat, the mean bastard from Thuringia.


----------



## Graeme (Feb 29, 2008)

thirtybg said:


> easy-cheesy...





Krabat42 said:


> Krabat, the mean bastard from Thuringia.



See? you're not such a mean bastard after all Krabat. Now, stop mucking about and produce a harder one!


----------



## Graeme (Feb 29, 2008)

Okay...I've got *three *easy ones to solve...


----------



## Storch (Feb 29, 2008)

Hello;

The first is a Nakajima B6N2 captured, the second aircraft is an Arado 77 and the third is a North American O-47A.

So now what about this:


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 29, 2008)

And the first one is that Boeing carrier fighterbomber prototype, gotta look up the designation.

The XF8B?


----------



## Graeme (Feb 29, 2008)

Storch said:


> Hello;
> 
> The first is a Nakajima B6N2 captured, the second aircraft is an Arado 77 and the third is a North American O-47A.



Damn! that's quick Storch! All three correct. Makes you wonder, when the time to muster the images exceeds the time to solve!

Storch, I think yours is the Italian Magni "Vale-1937" (PM-3-4) high-speed touring or aerobatic plane. 

The Virtual Aviation Museum - Magni Vale 37


----------



## Storch (Feb 29, 2008)

Exact Graeme !!Glamouration it was difficult but I beiging to trust that there is no plane that you don't find the name.  
(Scuse my English he's not good but I learning it.(I'm just 18 years old))

At you!


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 29, 2008)

> (Scuse my English he's not good but I learning it.(I'm just 18 years old))



I'm twice your age and learning too. So what?  That's why we're here. At least for learning aircraft recognition. The Magni Vale 37 was a tough one. But you won't get Graeme that easy.


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 29, 2008)

Gentlemen,

having been very busy elsewhere recently (changing tires on my P-47, spring is near) i now will rejoin the party, if you please... 

Now...what could this be. A somewhat different kind of riddle:


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 29, 2008)

That's Eddie Rickenbacker. On October 2nd, 1918 he shot down a Hannover CL and a Fokker DVII. Since this is no DVII, it must be the Hannover. 8)

Edward Vernon Rickenbacker - The Aerodrome - Aces and Aircraft of World War I


----------



## Storch (Feb 29, 2008)

Halberstadt CL IV?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 29, 2008)

Well done, Krabat

A Hannover CIIIA


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Feb 29, 2008)

Staying with the old ones. Any idea what this is?


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 29, 2008)

That's a "Harry Tate", a RAF RE8, obviously a captured example. Got a Windsock file about it. Nice try, Chris


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 29, 2008)

And anotherone, sorry no better pic available:


----------



## v2 (Feb 29, 2008)

P-63A-9 ?


----------



## Graeme (Mar 1, 2008)

v2 said:


> P-63A-9 ?



Definitely a P-63, V2.

Bell did a lot of research with V-tails...





They even considered using this V-tail configuration for their Bell X-1...


----------



## Storch (Mar 1, 2008)

It will not be very difficult (for Graeme  ):


----------



## Graeme (Mar 2, 2008)

Too difficult for me Storch! No luck. Thought it may be the Romano R.82. See what the others come up with.


----------



## Storch (Mar 2, 2008)

What??????    

Graeme don't find the name of a plane    

It's a Chinese aircraft 8)


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 2, 2008)

A Liuchow Kwangsi Type 2?


----------



## Graeme (Mar 3, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> A Liuchow Kwangsi Type 2?



Also known as the "Fushing biplane"?

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/secret-chinese-japanese-aircraft-ww2-10060.html


----------



## A4K (Mar 3, 2008)

Storch and Krabat! 

I think your English is bloody good! It's a hard language to learn, especially as we keep "borrowing" words - did you know that the modern English language is only 10 percent original English ? 

My greatest respect to you guys, and also to Thunderbolt, Wurger and every one else on this site from a non-English speaking country. 

..as for these bloody aircraft, you guys just do my head in...


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 3, 2008)

Thanks, A4K. Being a fan of old aircraft without learning english is next to impossible. But the best benefit is when you are able to read english books. It helps a lot too. By the way, I'm reading Pratchett's "The last continent" at the moment, shoud be fun for you Australians and New Zealanders  Strange people there  

To be honest again: I had no idea abbout the chinese one (so much for doing my head in)  , and didn't know about the V-tail-X1 either. But it looks well thought out. Innovative people people at Bell's.

Krabat


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 3, 2008)

O.K. next one. Not much of a quiz but I liked the picture:


----------



## Storch (Mar 3, 2008)

Thanks A4K!

Sorry for latness I just want to say that my Chinese plane was the *Fu-Shing AP-1*
.I'm happy I achieve to find a (very  ) difficult plane to Graeme            : and the other too!

Your aircraft Krabat I tihnk is an Avro Shakleton !But it's make me too easy


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 3, 2008)

Storch, indeed a very difficult aircraft to solve.....good choice!

Krabat, i think this might be some more scrap iron of your sort:









Avro Lincoln?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 3, 2008)

Another favorite of mine:





looking familiar?


----------



## Storch (Mar 3, 2008)

Yes very easy it's The Phoenix!!Different part of a Fairchild C-82!

What about this plane:


----------



## Wildcat (Mar 3, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> O.K. next one. Not much of a quiz but I liked the picture:



GAF Lincoln Mk.31. Australian built maritime patrol version.


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 4, 2008)

Brilliant, Wildcat!Often the little differences (Avro/GAF) make the difference...got me beat on that one....


Storch.......Amiot 110S?


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 4, 2008)

Half a point each for thunderbolt (for being faster) and for wildcat (for being exact). I should have known better than using an australian type.


----------



## A4K (Mar 4, 2008)

I thought that was a Lincoln!

Wildcat, was there a noticable difference between the GAF built machines and their Avro counterparts? No.75 (NZ) sqn. also used Mk.31s in the RAF, but I think the nose was a bit different (?) - especialy round the nose turret.


----------



## Storch (Mar 4, 2008)

hello for my plane it's bot an Amiot .

It's a Poland aircraft;


----------



## Wildcat (Mar 4, 2008)

A4K said:


> I thought that was a Lincoln!
> 
> Wildcat, was there a noticable difference between the GAF built machines and their Avro counterparts? No.75 (NZ) sqn. also used Mk.31s in the RAF, but I think the nose was a bit different (?) - especialy round the nose turret.



I'm no expert on the Lincoln, but would assume 75 sqn would have used either the Lincoln I or II model. The Mk 30 was the variant produced in Australia which I believe was similar to the British version bar a few interior modifications. The Mk31 was a unique Australian model being a Mk30 modified with an extra 6 feet added to the nose to house ASW equipment and its operator.


----------



## Graeme (Mar 4, 2008)

Storch said:


> hello for my plane it's bot an Amiot .
> 
> It's a Poland aircraft;



Ahhhh...Not French or Russian (a lot of similar looking French ones!) Then it's the *Nikol A-2*. Thanks for the tip Storch! 

A new one...






PS Storch, a little more on the Phoenix here...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/fairchild-provider-c-119-flight-phoenix-10311.html


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 5, 2008)

That looks like a Mack truck


----------



## A4K (Mar 5, 2008)

Ah, THAT's why it looked strange then, Wildcat, thanks!
I'm no expert on the Lincoln either, but as I'm (painfully slowly) building the aircraftof the RNZAF/ RAF NZ sqn's in 1:72, I'll have to tackle this one at some stage.


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 5, 2008)

Is this from a tandem gear?


----------



## Graeme (Mar 5, 2008)

Another unusual looking Lincoln version was B.2 (RF561) testing radar in an elongated nose in 1949. 







p47thunderbolt said:


> That looks like a Mack truck



 

Inside the 'Mack truck'...


----------



## Graeme (Mar 5, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Is this from a tandem gear?



No. But I must admit Krabat I never thought of that as a possibility! Good thinking!


----------



## Storch (Mar 5, 2008)

That right Graeme, it was the Nikol A-2.

For your..... ...... I haven't got idea!

May be Convair?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 5, 2008)

I first thought B-36 or B-47, but no.....


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 5, 2008)

Can't be that hard: Big fuselage, probably used as a trainer for wiring operators and since it's from Graeme, it's probably Australian


----------



## Graeme (Mar 5, 2008)

Two more clues which should provide the identity. First one is the man above standing on the left in the interior shot is Lord Brabazon and the second is this leading edge shot...


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 6, 2008)

that one?


----------



## Graeme (Mar 6, 2008)

Yep. The mighty Bristol Brabazon!



p47thunderbolt said:


> having been very busy elsewhere recently (changing tires on my P-47, spring is near)



Been meaning to ask you Chris, *your* P-47 in your Avatar? And you on the left?


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 6, 2008)

> Been meaning to ask you Chris, your P-47 in your Avatar? And you on the left?



Of course he is. Everywhere he sees a P-47 he's got to stand beside it and got fotographed.

And here's another one:


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 6, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Of course he is. Everywhere he sees a P-47 he's got to stand beside it and got fotographed.
> QUOTE]
> 
> That´s true, i am that silly  . Currently i am at four "Thunderbolt and me" photographs. Those 47s are rare in Europe. The one in the avatar is at the Paris Le Bourget museum.


----------



## A4K (Mar 6, 2008)

I am kicking myself right now, because I did know this...

The Junkers Ju88 B or Ju 388/ 488 wind tunnel model, I think...can't remember at the moment...


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 6, 2008)

> The Junkers Ju88 B or Ju 388/ 488 wind tunnel model, I think...



Junkers is correct, but neither the 88 not the 388/488.



> Currently i am at four "Thunderbolt and me" photographs.



Show 'em. They're tough guys here, they can stand it.


----------



## v2 (Mar 6, 2008)

Ju85


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 7, 2008)

Yep, it'ts the Ju-85 wind tunnel model. There's not much known about it but I've seen a cockpit mockup in one of my books too.


----------



## A4K (Mar 7, 2008)

Yep, that was it! How could I have forgotten?! Got that photo of it and cockpit mockup in one of Manfried Griehl's books- 'Bombers of the Luftwaffe' I think it's called.


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 7, 2008)

I found it in a book about Hugo Junkers. And here's one for the strange aircraft people:


----------



## Wildcat (Mar 7, 2008)

XB-41 ?


----------



## Graeme (Mar 7, 2008)

Wildcat said:


> XB-41 ?



I thought so at first also Wildcat, but the XB-41 has a 'normal' looking B-24 nose with a Bendix chin turret...





Krabat has the B-24/B-17 Hybrid...

Unreal Aircraft - Hybrid Aircraft - Boeing B-17G / Consolidated B-24J

New one...


----------



## A4K (Mar 7, 2008)

What a mess! Looks like a mix of US and Japanese types with an airtrainer tail...
I'm going to say it's American though, very possibly Grumman, but maybe Vought, especially as thhe float is wheeled, and the canopy reminds me of a Devastator

What bugs me is that the cockpit/ forward fueslage looks so Japanese..(Except for the cowling)


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 7, 2008)

A Grumman Duck which lost its upper wing  I'm searching...


----------



## Graeme (Mar 8, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> A Grumman Duck which lost its upper wing  I'm searching...



Very close Krabat...


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 8, 2008)

The Columbia XJL-1 (indeed a "roasted duck"). Today at Tucson, Arizona. Quite the location for an amphibian....


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 8, 2008)

Again, something unusual from me. The pictures are poor, identification of the precise type of plane maybe will be hard. But i rather would like to know: Who´s steering here?


----------



## Graeme (Mar 9, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> Who´s steering here?



The Pilot!  

Very interesting Chris. The aircraft looks French but I can find some very similar looking American types, but no luck. I'm guessing that the roundels mean little otherwise you would have eliminated them.

Famous flight footage or from a famous movie? Looks like you photographed your television?! No luck googling E-124 either, but you knew that didn't you?!...


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 9, 2008)

From a very well known movie, made in 1939, which today is in the public domain. Stills from the best version available for online download. I really have to apologize for the picture quality... The aircraft is american, but made to look french.

Two more stills:


----------



## Wildcat (Mar 9, 2008)

Is it from the movie Beau Geste?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 9, 2008)

Good guess! Foreign legion, indeed , but it is a comedy.....


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 10, 2008)

Laurel Hardy, "The Flying Deuces"? Stunt pilot was a Frank Clarke. (Sometimes it's good to know Chris' preferred kind of movie  )

The thread is climbing to a new height. Nice idea.

Krabat


----------



## A4K (Mar 10, 2008)

Loos like a Fokker of some description to me, except for the tail.


----------



## Graeme (Mar 10, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> From a very well known movie



If you say so Chris...never heard of it.







Krabat42 said:


> Stunt pilot was a Frank Clarke.



Must be honest, never heard of him.



A4K said:


> Loos like a Fokker of some description to me, except for the tail.



Definitely a *Bellanca*, A4K. From this site. Possibly a Pacemaker or Skyrocket. Found a Wikipedia entry for 'Flying Deuces' describing it as a biplane?! 

Aviation Films - F


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 10, 2008)

Not a flying film in the regular sense, true... 

I did not find the exact type of plane anywhere, but Graeme is certainly right, it should be one of those two Bellancas. An international thing, by the way.An american aircraft from an italian designer, disguised as a french plane...with an english copilot (not to be trusted, i´d say...)...


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 10, 2008)

Never heard of Frank Clarke either, but I think Chris meant Stan and Ollie. At first I thought it was Paul Mantz flying but this was probably even before his time.



> Found a Wikipedia entry for 'Flying Deuces' describing it as a biplane?!



Yes, I arraived at the same article. Never believe a wikipedia article which you haven't written yourself.  I was looking for "french foreign legion in popular culture" and there was this Laurel Hardy movie. Thank god for the internet.


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 10, 2008)

O.K. Open wiiiiiiide


----------



## Wildcat (Mar 10, 2008)

Vampire. two seat trainer version.


----------



## GaryMcL (Mar 11, 2008)

If anybody's interested there are a few more pics of the hybrid B-24/B-17 that I posted a while back in posts 145 and 146 in the Feel Free to Ask Me thread in the Pic Request forum. They're closeups of the nose that are stills taken from a video. Couldn't figure out how to link to them directly. Sorry.


----------



## Graeme (Mar 11, 2008)

Wildcat said:


> Vampire. two seat trainer version.



Gotta be. But no nose wheel or cannon cover.


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 11, 2008)

Yepp, Vampire trainer is correct. The slits for the cannons are just visible below the orange colour field. It's only the restored nose section on display, so there's no wheels to be seen.

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Mar 11, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> The slits for the cannons are just visible below the orange colour field. Krabat



Upon closer inspection you're correct Krabat. I'm old and the eyes are poor!

Here's one I found while looking for the Vampire nose. Nose guns and dorsal turret of what aircraft?... 





And for bonus points, identify the following control columns with...

B-17 Fortress
Heinkel 111
Hampden
Wellington





And for an extra extra bonus point...
Which is the MiG 15 and MiG 17?


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 11, 2008)

O.K. I know these pics. I'm sure they are somewhere on my harddisk. But first for the Bonuses:

Blue is the MiG-15 (35 degrees wing sweep), Red the MiG-17 (45 degrees wing sweep).

Column C is He-111 (can be swung to the right), A is a B-17 (must be an early model, found a pic of an underwater wreck, a B-17E). I believe B is from a Hampden, the lever is probably the single fixed .303 gun, so D must be the Wellington.

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Mar 11, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> But first for the Bonuses



Nicely done Krabat! All 'bonus' points correct.



Krabat42 said:


> found a pic of an underwater wreck, a B-17E)
> Krabat



Is there anything on the internet you can't find?


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 11, 2008)

> Is there anything on the internet you can't find?



Well, I didn't fing cockpit photos of the Hampden and Wellington showing the control column.

And back to your quiz pic: Is it American? A twin?

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Mar 12, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> And back to your quiz pic: Is it American? A twin?



Both, but a civil aircraft. One was converted (armed) and sold overseas. "X" marks the gun placements...


----------



## Wildcat (Mar 12, 2008)

Beechcraft 18/C45 ???? Lockheed 12 ???? Am I close???


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 12, 2008)

Boeing 247?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 12, 2008)

Definitely the 247. General Chiang Kai-Shek´s personal mount........


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 12, 2008)

This should be easy.......


----------



## Graeme (Mar 12, 2008)

Wildcat said:


> Beechcraft 18/C45 ???? Lockheed 12 ???? Am I close???



Sorry Wildcat, but... 



p47thunderbolt said:


> Definitely the 247. General Chiang Kai-Shek´s personal mount........



...it is the Boeing 247Y, a one-off conversion of a 247D for a "Chinese customer". Various sources have different stories. Some say Chiang Kai-Sheck, one says Marshal Chang Hsuech Liang and others "unknown". 



p47thunderbolt said:


> This should be easy......



Yeah, right Chris:  

Early version of the Demoiselle?


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 12, 2008)

No, it is not french. The gentleman who built this, certainly got inspiration from Santos-Dumont, however. This plane won a very important price. And it´s designer and pilot received the second pilot licence ever issued by his country. And got honored this way:


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 12, 2008)

> received the second pilot licence ever issued by his country



And when asked by a journalist, why he received only the second one, he answered that the "number 2 is the even number". Now it would be good to know german language.


----------



## p47thunderbolt (Mar 12, 2008)

One could say, this is a real grade a aircraft, in every sense.


----------



## Graeme (Mar 12, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> One could say, this is a real grade a aircraft, in every sense.



That's the clue that did it...

The Grade-Monoplane of 1909.





Deutsches Museum: Grade

Ever seen the commercial with the catch phrase "I can't believe it's not butter?".

Well, "I can't believe it's NOT a Thunderjet!?"...


----------



## Wildcat (Mar 12, 2008)

Nanchang CJ-6 with a modified nose


----------



## wingnuts (Mar 12, 2008)

F84G Thunderjet for comparison.... RTAF Museum, Don Muang, Krung Thep (Bangkok)


----------



## wingnuts (Mar 12, 2008)

Here is an obscure one.... anyone seen one of these before ?


----------



## Graeme (Mar 12, 2008)

Wildcat said:


> Nanchang CJ-6 with a modified nose



Brilliant Wildcat! If the roles were reversed, there is no way I would have picked that.

Photos: Nanchang CJ-6 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net


----------



## Graeme (Mar 13, 2008)

wingnuts said:


> Here is an obscure one.... anyone seen one of these before ?



I only recognised it Wingnut because I'm sure that you posted the Museum link once before?...

Royal Thai Air Force Museum

Royal Thai Air Force Museum - Boripat

The 'Boripatra'...






New one...
Armament included a 37mm cannon...


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 13, 2008)

That's atough one. French? They experimented with a 37mm cannon in a SPAD.



> Nanchang CJ-6 with a modified nose



Strange, what's the story about this aircraft? There must be one.


----------



## wingnuts (Mar 13, 2008)

Graeme said:


> I only recognised it Wingnut because I'm sure that you posted the Museum link once before?...
> 
> [
> Damn!.... outsmarted myself... getting old


----------



## Graeme (Mar 13, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> That's atough one. French? They experimented with a 37mm cannon in a SPAD.



American, Krabat.



Krabat42 said:


> Strange, what's the story about this aircraft? There must be one.



All I could find out were the details from the site I posted. Wildcat may have more info.



wingnuts said:


> getting old



Tell me about it! I just returned from radiation therapy for my Graves disease.


----------



## Wildcat (Mar 14, 2008)

Graeme said:


> All I could find out were the details from the site I posted. Wildcat may have more info.



I believe it was a movie prop? I only knew it Graeme because I have seen pics of it before.


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 14, 2008)

The Boeing GA-2 trench strafer. One of the worst aircraft that firm ever designed.

Boeing <B>GA-2</B>










First the 247Y, now the GA-2, what strange armed Boeings will follow next, Graeme......


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 14, 2008)

OK folks. No one knew the Grade Lanzpreis Eindecker, which was the very first successful german motorplane ever (to us Germans what the Wright Flyer was to the Americans), no one knew the Vampyr, which was the very first modern glider ever..........welllllllll........here´s another go at a great teutonic classic. Don´t disappoint me this time


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## Graeme (Mar 14, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> Don´t disappoint me this time



Gee I hope not!..but its gotta be the Taube? and that's Austrian...isn't?

Speaking of Austria, My wife LOVES Inspector Rex. And now a spin off, Stockinger, who was a character in the Rex series. Popular in Germany? or is Australian SBS about 12 years behind in viewing standards!?


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## Krabat42 (Mar 14, 2008)

> Stockinger


 Ah, Karl Markovics. He's good. You shoud have seen him in "Drei Herren".

Drei Herren (1998)

Rex was very popular in the late 1990's, but I wasn't a fan. Austrian humour is somewhat strange and sometimes hard to understand, even for Germans. But I like it, though most of it will be lost in the translation. Even in the translation from austrian to german.  

Oh, and the Taube is correct.

Krabat


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 14, 2008)

Rex still has many fans in Germany and Austria, though i wouldn´t watch it at home. Might scare our cat... 

By the way, Tobias Moretti, the shepherd´s master in the series has developped somewhat. His most recent roles were Adolf Hitler and Long John Silver.


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## Krabat42 (Mar 14, 2008)

Was he any good? I didn't see both films.

O.K. another one:


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## Graeme (Mar 14, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> O.K. another one



Looks like the Hall XPH-1 of 1929, Krabat.

Big wingspan on this one...


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## A4K (Mar 14, 2008)

I used to like Stockinger when I lived in Austria, but after Tobias Moretti left Komissar Rex (Inspector Rex), it wasn't so good. It was filmd around Wien though (Vienna), so I'd been to alot of the places on the programme.

The Etrich Taube was also built by the Austrian firm Lohner, a large aircraft and car and train chassis company, originally 'Lohner-Porsche' in the late 1800's- sound familiar?? Lohner did the chassis work, and Porsche did the motors.


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## A4K (Mar 14, 2008)

Regarding that pic Graeme, I'd say A Dornier Do.24.


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## Graeme (Mar 14, 2008)

A4K said:


> Regarding that pic Graeme, I'd say A Dornier Do.24.



Nope. It's a twin engined postwar Frenchman. Wingspan around 148ft, hence the bracing.


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 15, 2008)

Hurel-Dubois HD-34? Could also be a HD-31 or a HD-34. Not sure from your picture


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## Graeme (Mar 15, 2008)

I'd accept either Chris. But yes, it is the HD-34. Nicely done. Fascinating aircraft. I've read that they even considered a jet powered version and the Miles Aerovan at one time adopted a similar wing form.

American...


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## A4K (Mar 17, 2008)

bloody ugly, whatever it is..! Looks like a pregnant goldfish.

Realized at home the bracing was wrong for the Do 24 (if only my books and computer were in the same place..!)


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 17, 2008)

No idea, no concept, no nothing. Is this the only aircraft this firm produced? And is it a well-known firm?


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## Krabat42 (Mar 17, 2008)

And the small thing on the fin cannot be the rudder, it must be a trim tab.


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## Krabat42 (Mar 18, 2008)

No idea yet. Has it something to do with that Aerocar company?


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## A4K (Mar 18, 2008)

The fixed rudder and form might suggest it was built as a speed aircraft, like the Geebee racer - not designed to turn, but just fly a straight course as fast as possible. Wonder what engine it's got?


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 18, 2008)

Hmmmmm, does look more like some of the animals i had in my aquarium when i was younger. Would you use something like that for speed racing? Though, good objection, A4K.


GRAEME, HELP!!!!!!!!


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## A4K (Mar 18, 2008)

...Dosen't look much like a 'speedster' to me either, it was the lack of rudder and strange form to the fueslage that got me thinking..

It really does look like a pregnant goldfish to me...


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 18, 2008)

Iconfused words, meant to say "observation" and ended up with "objection"......sorry.


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## A4K (Mar 18, 2008)

Kein problem!


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 18, 2008)

Ok, Grame doens´t help, so i have to solve without him:

The 1937 Gwinn Aircar

Gwinn Aircar

Gwinn Roadable Airplane


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 18, 2008)

Your turn, gentlemen


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## Krabat42 (Mar 18, 2008)

So I wasn't that far away with Aerocar. I'm so good...

And that's the Lockheed Orion Explorer. And the man with the eyepatch is Wiley Post, right?


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## A4K (Mar 18, 2008)

Interesting read about the aircar, danke Donnerschlag.

The new one looks like a re-engined and floated He 70...


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 18, 2008)

I never before heard about the aircar. Graeme certainly always digs up the most entertaining aircraft....


Correct, Wiley Post, Will Rogers and the (indeed re-engined and floated and also the inspiration and model for the He70) Lockheed Orion 9c. The last photograph ever taken of all of three taken just before the fatal August 15, 1935 crash

More:

Wiley Post


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 18, 2008)

Let´s try this one. A very famous pilot in a very cold environment:


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## Krabat42 (Mar 19, 2008)

That's easy: The plane is a Klemm 25, the pilot is Ernst Udet and the movie is "SOS Eisberg".



> S.O.S. Eisberg (1933)



Krabat


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 19, 2008)

Nice. Though i am not sure if it is the Klemm or the Messerschmitt seen in this particular pic. More about the planes in this legendary movie:

Aeromovies - Films d'aviation - Films - S.O.S. Iceberg

I´d go with the Klemm, too


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## Krabat42 (Mar 19, 2008)

The next one:


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## A4K (Mar 19, 2008)

The invisible man's home-build! I'd recognise that one anywhere!


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## Krabat42 (Mar 20, 2008)

And it's not Barby's plane either.


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## Graeme (Mar 21, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> Ok, Grame doens´t help, so i have to solve without him:



Apologies...

Computer problems...
Family problems...
Health problems...

Krabat, yours is solved with the 1977 'Observers Book of Aircraft'...





Did you you guys ever buy those little books?...hope not, because this is from the same edition...





(PS: What are they doing at AviaQuiz?!)


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 21, 2008)

Graeme, good to have you back. Hope, everything is well again!

About the fanliner, if you do not know the gentleman who designed it, you have to read about him:

Luigi Colani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The most famous german industrial designer ever and a highly popular figure here.

The aviaquizzers seem to be on vacation....looks like their software is running amok and nobody minds......


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## macdknife (Mar 21, 2008)

it flue well


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## Graeme (Mar 21, 2008)

p47thunderbolt said:


> Luigi Colani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> The most famous german industrial designer ever and a highly popular figure here.



Fascinating man, with some incredible designs! That truck is certainly different! 



macdknife said:


> it flue well



Unfortunately your image of the BV-141 is revealed in type when you view your post in the 'Unlogged' mode. Try renaming it before uploading.


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## v2 (Mar 21, 2008)

BV 141


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## Flyboy2 (Mar 21, 2008)

Let me take a wild guess.... BV 141. That was hard. Defienatly a fascinating aircraft, not sure if I would like to fly it, I would feel kind of exposed out in that almost completely glazed cabin. 
Ok give me another one!


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## Grampa (Mar 21, 2008)

lets try a new game of identifie plane. After all its getting harder to find 
pictures of planes that we havent seen now, so lets try guessing by the data on the plane. the more wrong guess you do the more data and some history on the plane that I question about I gonna give you. Ok heres goes.

2x engines of 1.823 cub. in. (29.88 litres)
Maxium take off: 16,400lb (7439 kg)
Height: 15 ft 5 in (4.70 m)
Wing area: 678 sq ft (62.00 m2)
189 whent to export
one customer whas the Turkey air force


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## p47thunderbolt (Mar 22, 2008)

Martin B10/B12

Martin B-10/B-12 Info

just googled "7439 kg" and "189". Great idea for a new quiz, perhaps we should modify the data a tiny bit to "disable" Google? ("about 7450 kg" or something like that?)


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## Célérité (Mar 22, 2008)

And the next one: maybe be too easy ???


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## Grampa (Mar 22, 2008)

Damn, that whas fast answered p47thunderbol and its the Martin b10/12. well thx for the info of how you finded the answer. Now I have to find a harder way to do question for you whitout finding answer in the Google.


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## Flyboy2 (Mar 22, 2008)

Is that French?


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## Captain Dunsel (Mar 22, 2008)

> Unfortunately your image of the BV-141 is revealed in type when you view your post in the 'Unlogged' mode. Try renaming it before uploading.



You realize, the ideal spoof would be to give the file the name of a different, but similar aircraft. 

CD


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## Flyboy2 (Mar 22, 2008)

That would be malicious


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## Célérité (Mar 22, 2008)

Yes it's french


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## Flyboy2 (Mar 22, 2008)

thats one of the early Dassault designs, can't think of the name though


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## Célérité (Mar 22, 2008)

It's not an Dassault aircraft


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## Grampa (Mar 23, 2008)

SUD-AVIATION SE-2410 GROGNARD (Grumbler)
Designed as a single-seat ground attack by the SNCA du Sud-Est. the prototype flew on 30 April 1950, powered by 2 4,850 lbs. thrust Hispano-Suiza Nene 101 turbojets mounted one above the other in fuselage.


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## Célérité (Mar 23, 2008)

correct, the Grognard nevers really works, too expencive, too complicate, and too ambitious for the time.


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## Grampa (Mar 23, 2008)

My turn.
Ok heres goes.
one of the used engine to this plane had a Displacement: 1,296 in³ (21.2 L)
and 1940 the company whit help of higher octane aviation fuels boosded it up to 1050 hp
had more take off than 4400lb (2000kg)
sold more that 1000
licensbuild in some country
has been used agains russian 
last used in 1943
Manufacured by a company who made many famous aircraft.
some other types whas development from this plane and one of them had a height of 10 ft 7 in (3.23m)


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## Célérité (Mar 23, 2008)

On the off chance it would not a Morane Saunier manufactoring to Finland? A Morane Saulnier Mörkö.


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## Grampa (Mar 24, 2008)

Nope sorry Célérité it aint a Frence plane.

heres 3 more clue in underline
one of the used engine to this plane had a Displacement: 1,296 in³ (21.2 L)
and 1940 the company whit help of higher octane aviation fuels boosded it up to 1050 hp
had more take off than 4400lb (2000kg)
It had 2 guns
sold more that 1000
licensbuild in some country
has been used agains russian 
last used in 1943
Manufacured by a company who made many famous aircraft. but sadly the compani dont exist anymore in this modern day's
some other types whas development from this plane and one of them had a height of 10 ft 7 in (3.23m) and another whas developed in to an interceptor whit 3 guns


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## Célérité (Mar 24, 2008)

How many engine has it?


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## Grampa (Mar 24, 2008)

heres some more clue in underline
one of the used engine to this plane had a Displacement: 1,296 in³ (21.2 L)
and 1940 the company who manufactured the engine mannaged to whit help of higher octane aviation fuels boosded it up to 1050 hp but sadly newer been used on this or mayby any other planes
had more take off than 4400lb (2000kg)
had a wingarea of 348 sq ft (32.33 m2)
It had 2 guns
sold more that 1000
licensbuild in some country
Only 1 is still flying today
has been used agains russian 
last used in 1943 as trainer
Manufacured by a company who made many historical famous aircraft. but sadly the compani dont exist anymore in this modern day's. The company made one type of plane that proved to be eficcient against Hitlers vengeance veapons.
There where other types whas development from this plane and one of them had a height of 10 ft 7 in (3.23m) and was use in the general purpose roll and another whas developed in to an interceptor whit 3 guns
another version whas developed as a army co-operative aircraft


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## Grampa (Mar 24, 2008)

How many engine has it?
answer only 1 and it newer exeeded over 700 hp


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## Célérité (Mar 24, 2008)

HAWKER Hart???


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## Grampa (Mar 24, 2008)

BINGO!! We have a winner
Thats right it's the Hawker Hart.
The engine I was talking about was the R-R Kestrell 
Rolls-Royce Kestrel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Used in the Finnish winter war 1940 against russian
The other plane that I whas talking of that the Hawk-company produced and was used efficent against Hitlers V-weapons whas the Hawker Tempest.
The interceptor plane whit 3 machineguns whas the Hawker Demon.
The other plane that was developed from the original plane whas Osprey, Audax, Hartebeeste, Hardy, Hind and the last of them the Hector.

GZ Célérité you are the winner 

Shall I try another or shall you try?


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## Célérité (Mar 24, 2008)

OK Grampa, I took over...
wing load: 153kg/m2
take off power: 1275ch/1300ch (937KW/955KW)
take off weight: 4853kg (10699lb)
VFO velocity flaps operating: 240km/h (130KT)
It was built in 600 copies 
He fought in Méditerranée, in Malta, in Egypt, Crete...and it has participated to the hunt of Bismarck.
Several are still flying today.


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## Grampa (Mar 25, 2008)

Fairey Fulmar MkII?
Fairey Fulmar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because of the horsepower that it has It looked simmilar to an RR-Merlin engine, so I suspected a recon-version of an Spitfire first because there whas many of them looking for Bismark and there whas some in service in the Méditerranée. But the weight whas to mutch and there hasent been any version of rec-spitfire that ben build in 600st. So I then whonder what else did flow whit an RR-engine whit that weight. Then it hit me that must i only looking for an reconplane whit RR-engine? The RR-engine whas mainly used for fighters. So i whonder if it whas the Curtis P-40 Warhawk, got the right engine but it havent the right takeoff wheight and it hasent been build in 600 numbers and it hardly been used for hunting bismark. Then a  hit me, The Fairey Fulmar MkII


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## comiso90 (Mar 25, 2008)

Célérité said:


> Several are still flying today.



according to wiki:

The only known survivor is N1854, the Fulmar prototype (and first production Mk I) at the Fleet Air Arm Museum.


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## Célérité (Mar 25, 2008)

My knowledge there is at least 2 Fulmar to be in flight. The N1854 and another.

N1854:


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## Célérité (Mar 25, 2008)

You are very quick off the mark Grampa. All my congratulation.


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## Grampa (Mar 25, 2008)

Stop it you making me  but are you still trying to test me? because the bottom picture aint that a Fairey Firefly IV?


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## Célérité (Mar 25, 2008)

I'm sorry, I was wrong, it's not the right picture.


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## Krabat42 (Mar 26, 2008)

Is this the RNHF Firefly that crashed at Flying Legends Duxford a few years ago? I was there then, terrible 

And it's good to have you back, Graeme. Did anyone find out your pic in post No.1685?

Krabat


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## Célérité (Mar 26, 2008)

> Is this the RNHF Firefly that crashed at Flying Legends Duxford a few years ago? I was there then, terrible



Yes that's him, it was in 2003.


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## Krabat42 (Mar 26, 2008)

Yeah, I remember. I was at Flying Legends for the first time, with Chris. They stopped the show for approximately half an hour and then continued. I almost couldn't belive it at first, but after thinking about it, I thought it was the right decision. William Murton and Neil Rix, may they rest in piece.

Krabat


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## Graeme (Mar 26, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> IDid anyone find out your pic in post No.1685?



No. It was the American Jet 400 Hustler of the late 70's. Only one? built. Had a turboprop in the front and a jet in the rear (to improve take-off and climb performance)...


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## Krabat42 (Mar 27, 2008)

Ah, mixed propulsion. An interesting concept.





Krabat


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## Grampa (Mar 27, 2008)

The Dark Shark?
XF2R Dark Shark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Krabat42 (Mar 27, 2008)

Yepp, the Ryan Dark Shark.

Not really an unknown aircraft, like the Fireball, the Savage, the MiG-13 etc. Has anyone pictures or info about some of the more obscure mixed-propulsion aircraft? Knowing about the deficiencies of the early jet engine, those must have been relatively common in the late 40's and early 50's.

Krabat


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## wingnuts (Mar 27, 2008)

Not originally designed with mixed propulsion, although they did fit a couple of jets in the later version, I've always liked this design.


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## comiso90 (Mar 27, 2008)

Célérité said:


> My knowledge there is at least 2 Fulmar to be in flight. The N1854 and another.
> 
> N1854:


Good to know... maybe you should correct the error in Wiki..


That's what makes wikipedia, wikipedia!
.


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## Graeme (Mar 27, 2008)

wingnuts said:


> I've always liked this design.



The XB-42A



Krabat42 said:


> Has anyone pictures or info about some of the more obscure mixed-propulsion aircraft?Krabat



Mixed propulsion of a different kind(?) This *rocket* powered trolley helped launch what* jet* aircraft?...


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## wingnuts (Mar 27, 2008)

Sud-Est SE5003 Baroudeur ..... ?  


Mixed propulsion of a different kind(?) This *rocket* powered trolley helped launch what* jet* aircraft?...


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## Krabat42 (Mar 28, 2008)

The Mixmaster with additional jets, cool. Didn't know that. I also read that they tried to developed remotely controlled gun barbettes for that type.

The Baroudeur? Still checking...

Yep, the Baroudeur:

The Sud-Est SE5003 Baroudeur

And another one, one of my favorites:





Krabat


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## Graeme (Mar 28, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Yep, the Baroudeur



Wingnuts/Krabat... yep, the Baroudeur.

Krabat, yours is the impressive Tupolev ANT-25. 

New one. Development started way back in the 70's


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## A4K (Mar 28, 2008)

It's got harvard type undercarriage and mid-wing. North American?


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## Krabat42 (Mar 28, 2008)

A race plane... Looks somewhat like the Hughes H-1.


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## Captain Dunsel (Mar 28, 2008)

The fuse makes me think of a Sea Fury.

CD


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## Graeme (Mar 29, 2008)

A4K said:


> It's got harvard type undercarriage and mid-wing. North American?



The fuselage is a heavily modified North American SNJ-5. The main undercarriage units are also from a SNJ-5. The wheels, tyres and brakes are from a Sabreliner and the engine is from a Convair T-29 with the prop spinner and hub from a DC-7.

The designer was an aeronautical engineer for Lockheed until his retirement in 1972. In retirement he designed a two-seat homebuilt called the Firefly, then began work on this Unlimited Class racing aircraft which at one time was called the Dos Equis Challenger.

'Jane's' annual 1984-1985 stated that it _"could prove to be the fastest piston engined aircraft in the world around a closed circuit"._


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## Grampa (Mar 31, 2008)

Ok it' s hasent been any new question of guess this plane now so I gonna give you one here if you dont mind. Ok here's goes

It newer played it's roll trou the whole WWII for the contry that created the plane but for other country it did.
The last of them used as a communication and meterological reconnaissance.
It normally carrried 2000 rounds of bullet.
carried no bombs.
It whas lighter and agiler than a Zero but no faster.
nearly 220 of that plane whent for export.
In the cold winter day's some where fitted whit skies.
It whas used against the japanese air force and the first score it did whas the A5M.


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## Krabat42 (Mar 31, 2008)

The Curtiss CW-21? An interesting aircraft. I'm waiting for years to fly it in Il2Sturmovik.



> Dos Equis Challenger



Never heard of that plane, found that in Aerofiles:



> William H Statler, Northridge CA.
> Dos Equis Challenger 1982 = 1pClwM rg; 2100hp P&W R-2800-97; span: 31'7" length: 30'8". Modified North American SNJ-5 as racer in unlimited class.



Look like it's the right plane for Chris, he loves the R2800.  Did it really fly and race?

Krabat


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## Grampa (Apr 1, 2008)

More clue in underline

It newer played it's roll trou the whole WWII for the contry that created the plane but for other country it did.
The last of them used as a communication and meterological reconnaissance.
It normally carrried 2000 rounds of bullet.
carried no bombs.
It whas lighter and agiler than a Zero but no faster.
It whas faster and got nearly twice so bigger firepower than a A5M "Claude" bur whas heavier.
nearly 220 of that plane whent for export.
In the cold winter day's some where fitted whit skies.
It whas used against the japanese air force and the first score it did whas the A5M.
Power to weight ratio at maximum take off was around 5.86 lb/hk.
The engine it used whas not over 25 litres and weighted little over 1000 lbs


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## Krabat42 (Apr 1, 2008)

Monoplane or biplane?


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## A4K (Apr 1, 2008)

Vultee Vengeance?


----------



## Grampa (Apr 1, 2008)

More clue in underline

It newer played it's roll trou the whole WWII for the contry that created the plane but for other country it did.
The last of them used as a communication and meterological reconnaissance.
It normally carrried 2000 rounds of bullet.
Whit all the guns together it fired 80 rounds per sec.
carried no bombs.
It whas lighter, has shorter wingspan but nearly 1/3 times bigger wingarea and agiler than a Zero but no faster.
It whas faster and got nearly twice so bigger firepower than a A5M "Claude" bur whas heavier.
They produced nearly 750 of this plane and nearly 220 of it whent for export.
In the cold winter day's some where fitted whit skies.
It whas used against the japanese air force and the first score it did whas the A5M.
Power to weight ratio at maximum take off was around 5.86 lb/hk.
The engine it used whas not over 25 litres and weighted little over 1000 lbs.
The early version used 2-blades woodproppeller and later version the Fairey-Reed metalproppeller. 
Build whit 2 wingstag on each side.
Used hydralic manuvering trailing-edge flaps.
Landinggear of brackettype whit an internally-sprung wheel.
An enclosed cockpit.


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## Célérité (Apr 1, 2008)

Woaaah, you are hard with us Grampa...


----------



## Grampa (Apr 2, 2008)

More clue in underline

It newer played it's roll trou the whole WWII for the contry that created the plane but for other country it did.
The last of them used as a communication and meterological reconnaissance.
It normally carrried 2000 rounds of bullet.
Whit all the guns together it fired 80 rounds per sec.
carried no bombs.
It whas lighter, has shorter wingspan but nearly 1/3 times bigger wingarea and agiler than a Zero but no faster.
It whas faster and got nearly twice so bigger firepower than a A5M "Claude" bur whas heavier.
They produced nearly 750 of this plane and nearly 220 of it whent for export.
In the cold winter day's some where fitted whit skies.
It whas used against the japanese air force and the first score it did whas the A5M.
Power to weight ratio at maximum take off was around 5.86 lb/hk.
The 9 cylinder radional engine it used whas not over 25 litres and weighted little over 1000 lbs.
The early version used 2-blades woodproppeller and later version the Fairey-Reed metalproppeller. 
Build whit 2 wingstag on each side.
Used hydralic manuvering trailing-edge flaps.
Landinggear of brackettype whit an internally-sprung wheel.
An enclosed cockpit.
Betveen 50 or 70 of them become as Carrier-version 1938 whit an increased emty-weight of 135 kg. Those carrier-plane where fitted whit automatic mixture controll, electric starter, Vokes air filter in the carburettor intake and a arrester hook.


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## Graeme (Apr 2, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Never heard of that plane, found that in Aerofiles:
> Look like it's the right plane for Chris, he loves the R2800.  Did it really fly and race?Krabat



The Don Equis Challenger was just another clue Krabat. True identity is the *Statler Wildfire.*

Wildfire Air Racing History


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks Graeme, an interesting story. Would like to see the thing flying the course.

Regarding Grampa's quiz, here are my thoughts:

- must be a biplane (wingspan and wing area)
- built as a fighter (no bombs) but used as a trainer in it's home country (only 220 for export but not used for its original role in its own country)
- 4 machine guns (twice the A5M), probably Browning .303 (20 rps each would match)

Does anyone have an idea? I'm still stuck with the CW-21, maybe banging my head on the desk will help somewhat.  

Krabat


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## A4K (Apr 2, 2008)

Fokker variant?


----------



## paaln (Apr 2, 2008)

Gladiator


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## Grampa (Apr 2, 2008)

to paaln and how did you figured it out? It took a while for the other. and shall you try get a new question
see Gloster Gladiator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Krabat42 (Apr 3, 2008)

Paaln, my congratulations. 

Grampa, don't call me a poor sport but the Gladiator was my very first thought. I dismissed it because of


> It newer played it's roll trou the whole WWII for the contry that created the plane but for other country it did.



Either "never" or "not through the whole war", not both. It was just not clear enough, the Gladiator WAS used as an RAF fighter during the early stages of the war, though not through the whole war. So I think most of us dismissed the Glad for the same reason.

But a nice new idea for the quiz, I admit. Let's try another one. Paaln?


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## Grampa (Apr 3, 2008)

Sorry that I  you in wrong way. Well its because im a little  in languages because I havent been good in  english so i can  well but im a little what you would fel  , so plz dont fel like im  to your forum.
sorry for this.


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## Krabat42 (Apr 3, 2008)

No sweat, Grampa. No offence taken. English isn't my mother language either, I just wanted to explain why nobody of the others found out about the Glad.

I'm not offended and you're not stupid. And you're always welcome here. There ARE people with really stupid views in this forum (well, in my opinion at least  ) but you're definitely not one of them. And now let's forget the whole thing, right? 

Krabat


----------



## A4K (Apr 3, 2008)

...I wouldn't have got it anyway, hell, most of the pictures are hard enough for me, as it is...


----------



## Graeme (Apr 4, 2008)




----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 4, 2008)

Canadair CL-215

The yelow colour was a good hint. Didn't know that Heinemann was involved. Not really his kind of aircraft, looking at the "Scooter".  





Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 4, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Canadair CL-215


Sure is. Too easy?



Krabat42 said:


> The yelow colour was a good hint.



OK. No colour this time.


----------



## eddie_brunette (Apr 4, 2008)




----------



## smg (Apr 4, 2008)

well it looks like a good fither in the rigth hands


----------



## Graeme (Apr 4, 2008)

eddie_brunette said:


> View attachment 60538



The Brunelli B-1000 of 1942...

Pictorial Chronology of Burnelli Designs - planes not built


----------



## Graeme (Apr 5, 2008)

Mine from the previous page...





Too hard? Then try the full length version...





And since it is my 1,000th post, I must celebrate by throwing another six at you. Your time starts...now. (The only clue is 1964)


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 7, 2008)

No. 2 looks like a Hercules, for the others - no idea yet. What's in it for the winner, Graeme? Some australian beer perhaps?


----------



## Captain Dunsel (Apr 7, 2008)

1 looks to me like the Curtis X-19. When I was a youngster, we often drove past Curtis-Wright's hangars at Caldwell-Wright field. I remember, one evening, seeing the X-19 and its smaller brother in the hangar. 

Of the rest, the last looks like Hansa's reverse-sweep jet to me and 3 to be a Miles (Messenger?).

CD


----------



## Graeme (Apr 7, 2008)

Captain Dunsel said:


> 1 looks to me like the Curtis X-19. When I was a youngster, we often drove past Curtis-Wright's hangars at Caldwell-Wright field. I remember, one evening, seeing the X-19 and its smaller brother in the hangar.



Correct Captain...










Krabat42 said:


> No. 2 looks like a Hercules, for the others - no idea yet. What's in it for the winner, Graeme? Some australian beer perhaps?



Sorry Krabat but the personal beer stock is low. I’m sure the satisfaction of a ‘job well done’ will suffice. 

CLUES…
Number 1. A British research jet investigating the Concorde wing configuration. (AviaQuiz)
Number 2. French STOL transport.
Number 3. French light plane. Prop at front and tail. Named after planet in the Solar System.
Number 4. American VTOL research aircraft.
Number 5. Japanese transport. Initially had pylon mounted turboprops, but this changed soon after.

Number 6. Correct again Captain, the MMB HFB 320 Hansa.


Captain Dunsel said:


> Of the rest, the last looks like Hansa's reverse-sweep jet to me.CD


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 8, 2008)

O.K., then without beer  

No.1 is the BAC 221 (I didn't found out in Aviaquiz then.)

No.2 is the Breguet 941

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 8, 2008)

*Number 1*. BAC 221 (*Krabat*)

*Number 2*. Breguet 941 (*Krabat*)

*Number 3*. French light plane. Prop at front and tail. Named after a planet in the Solar System.







*Number 4*. American VTOL research aircraft.



*




Number 5*. Japanese transport. Initially had pylon mounted turboprops, but this changed soon after.







*Number 6*. MMB HFB 320 Hansa (*Captain Dunsel*)


----------



## paaln (Apr 8, 2008)

3 Moynet Jupiter
4 Lockheed XV-4 Hummingbird
5 mitsubishi MU-2






From World champs. in scale RC, Oslo, Norway, 1986.

This model was built and flown by a french monsieur who I think was a World Champion in 1980. Not sure if it was with this plane.


----------



## Graeme (Apr 8, 2008)

paaln said:


> 3 Moynet Jupiter
> 4 Lockheed XV-4 Hummingbird
> 5 mitsubishi MU-2



Nicely done paaln. That completes the six. Thanks guys!

There was a plan to power the Jupiter with a turboprop in the front and a jet in the rear. Matra (French missile experts) were going to market it as the Matra Moynet 2000, which was claimed to have an estimated range of 1,400miles at 400 mph. No idea if it was built.


----------



## paaln (Apr 9, 2008)

So, can anyone tell what this model is? It, too, competed in the scale RC World Championship here in -86.


----------



## Graeme (Apr 9, 2008)

Looks like the Stinson Model A Tri-Motor. 





Way back in 1987 at the cost of $75,000, Kennedy Miller made a replica of the Model A for an Australian TV mini-series titled “Riddle of the Stinson” that told the story of the crash, survival and rescue of a Model A passengers in 1937.

I remember walking through the replica which was once hangered at Wangaratta Airworld museum. Certainly more realistic from the outside. Sadly Airworld closed down a number of years ago.

Australian Film Commission: Searchable Film Database
Wangaratta Tourist Attraction, Air World


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 9, 2008)

One easy pic for warmup today:





Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 9, 2008)

Wurger said:


> Indeed.But for me it looks like a miserable joke.
> 
> Maybe we should try to ID something much more modern.
> 
> What's this?








Unfortunately Krabat, Wurger posted the Ye-8 in October last year (post#1241). Try again.


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 9, 2008)

Stupidstupidstupid.  O.K., you had it coming.  





Krabat


----------



## wingnuts (Apr 9, 2008)

I remember walking through the replica which was once hangered at Wangaratta Airworld museum. Certainly more realistic from the outside. Sadly Airworld closed down a number of years ago.

I also remember the Stinson at Joe Drages Airworld in Wangaratta, it was not there last time i passed through in 2006. However it is now the home of Murray Griffiths "Precision Aerospace" and is involved in the restoration of various WW2 aircraft including some rare Japanese aircraft as well as P40s and P39s.

There were still a few aircraft of the Drage collection there including C47, Mirrage III, Wirraway, Wackett Trainer and CAC Winjeel and DH Drover.

Wangaratta Australia , Murray Griffiths restorations pictures from aviation photos on webshots


----------



## Graeme (Apr 10, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Stupidstupidstupid.  O.K., you had it coming.  Krabat



Don't knock yourself Krabat, It has become a very long thread.

Polikarpov I-400?









Wingnuts, thanks for the Wangaratta update. My brother use to live in Melbourne (Wonga Park) and every time we visited I made sure we stopped at Air World along the way.


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 10, 2008)

Yepp, it's the Il-400, in fact the third prototype known al Il-3, made by the "King of Fighters". Here's some info about it:

I-1 (Il-400) by Tessitori

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 11, 2008)

At the time of its development it was considered the fastest radial-engined fighter in the world...


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 11, 2008)

Looks fast. It's neither Hawker nor Gloster, probably a US plane?

There should be thing like the "Rothmaler" (in Germany a standard work to identify plants) for aircraft. Put in for example number of engines, wings, seats and you got a selection of planes. Then finetune the thing and you got fewer every time. In the end you got it. Just an idea that came on my way to work this morning.

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 11, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Looks fast. It's neither Hawker nor Gloster, probably a US plane?



British. Exported to China.



Krabat42 said:


> Just an idea that came on my way to work this morning.Krabat



Typical German inventiveness? Excellent idea, let me know when you build one!

Someone in this forum mentioned an 'image search engine' where with some programme you enter a picture or photo and it searches the internet for similar images. It'd be good for AviaQuiz.


----------



## Storch (Apr 11, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Not a lot on it Kris. Googling produced nothing, which I thought made it 'perfect' for the thread! Appropriate that he had a history of making 3-wheeled cars. Powered only by a 45 hp Salmson 9 ADB 9-cyl, air- cooled radial.
> From Janes 1962-63.



Hello every body!

I'm sorry to be away since a long time.I want to ask at graeme what was the nationality about this plane 8) I think it's frenche but I'm not sure a hall...

Thank you four ask!

Good bye


----------



## Graeme (Apr 11, 2008)

Storch said:


> I'm sorry to be away since a long time



Welcome back Storch!



Storch said:


> what was the nationality about this plane



French.


----------



## Storch (Apr 12, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Welcome back Storch!
> 
> 
> 
> French.



Thanks!


----------



## paaln (Apr 13, 2008)

Armstrong Whitworth's AW16


----------



## Storch (Apr 13, 2008)

For Graeme;

I'm sorry to be insistant but can you tel me in wich book do you find this photo and explanations about the bastet.

Thank you very mutch!


----------



## Graeme (Apr 13, 2008)

paaln said:


> Armstrong Whitworth's AW16



Yes.



Storch said:


> For Graeme;
> 
> I'm sorry to be insistant but can you tel me in wich book do you find this photo and explanations about the bastet.Thank you very mutch!



Jane's All The World's Aircraft 1962-63.


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 14, 2008)

> Armstrong Whitworth's AW16



Awww! I was thinking about the Siskin and Bulldog and threw them away. Sooo close! 

And a different one: In the glass nose of what aircraft is this guy sitting?





Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 14, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> In the glass nose of what aircraft is this guy sitting?



A very young Alan Arkin sitting in a B-25 for the 1970 film classic, Catch 22. Have you seen him in 'Little Miss Sunshine'?..very funny film!

New one...


----------



## Storch (Apr 14, 2008)

American or French?

Or anyone of them?

thanks for your answer about the book!


----------



## Graeme (Apr 14, 2008)

Storch said:


> American or French?



Neither Storch. Only 22 built (including the two prototypes).



Storch said:


> thanks for your answer about the book!



Not a problem Storch!


----------



## A4K (Apr 14, 2008)

Looks like an upsized DH Heron - is it a De Havilland ?


----------



## Storch (Apr 14, 2008)

English or Germany?


----------



## Grampa (Apr 14, 2008)

SAAB 90 Scandia

Saab 90 Scandia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 14, 2008)

> A very young Alan Arkin sitting in a B-25 for the 1970 film classic, Catch 22.



Jepp, too easy. But it's my favourite aviation movie (maybe equaled by the original "Flight of the Phoenix", I refuse to aknowledge the existence of the remake  ). Among my Top 10 movies (together with films like "Silent Running" and "Dead Men don't wear plaid") 



> Have you seen him in 'Little Miss Sunshine'?..very funny film!



Unfortunately not. But I've seen him even younger in "The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming." (with a young Carl Reiner). One of the best films with a cold war theme. Very Dr.Strangelovesque.  

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 14, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> But I've seen him even younger in "The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming." (with a young Carl Reiner). One of the best films with a cold war theme. Very Dr.Strangelovesque.



Great film that one!



Grampa said:


> SAAB 90 Scandia





Storch said:


> English or Germany?





A4K said:


> Looks like an upsized DH Heron - is it a De Havilland ?



It's Spanish.


----------



## Célérité (Apr 14, 2008)

I think it is a CASA C-207 Azor


----------



## Graeme (Apr 15, 2008)

Célérité said:


> I think it is a CASA C-207 Azor



"Si"

EADS N.V. - CASA C-207 "Azor"


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 16, 2008)

Another one to keep you guys on the short leash  





Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 16, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Another one to keep you guys on the short leash



MiG-31 Foxhound?


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 16, 2008)

Yepp, the MiG-31. And there is another philosophical question, together with "Why are we here?" and "Why do people think digital watches are a good idea?". It is the question every one of us ponders about for months:

"Is Graeme sleeping some time or other?"  





Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 16, 2008)

You've got me all wrong Krabat. I'm getting plenty of sleep. To bed early and up early, (and Google), helps me solve life's 'riddles', like your *Kettering Bug*...

Kettering Bug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

New one...


----------



## wingnuts (Apr 16, 2008)

Blackburn Beverley...


----------



## Graeme (Apr 16, 2008)

wingnuts said:


> Blackburn Beverley...



You had a good sleep too Wingnut!? Damn, I had forgotten that you had a long association with Blackburn!


----------



## wingnuts (Apr 17, 2008)

Graeme said:


> You had a good sleep too Wingnut!? Damn, I had forgotten that you had a long association with Blackburn!



I was an apprentice there back in 1962, my first job was manufacturing spare flaps etc. for Beverley's.... before moving on to Buccaneers. 

Also flew in Bev's a few times in the RAF from Khormaksar (Aden) to Sharjah and Masirah


----------



## Graeme (Apr 17, 2008)

Thanks wingnuts.

Moving on, here's another...


----------



## Storch (Apr 17, 2008)

Is it French?


----------



## Graeme (Apr 17, 2008)

How are you Storch?!



Storch said:


> Is it French?



Nope.


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 17, 2008)

Russian? Looks somewhat like a MiG-21. Maybe some small country developing their own light fighter...


----------



## paaln (Apr 17, 2008)

Helwan HA 300


----------



## Graeme (Apr 17, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Maybe some small country developing their own light fighter...



Perfect description Krabat. Egyptian project, but designed by Prof. Willy Messerschmitt. 



paaln said:


> Helwan HA 300



Yep.


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 18, 2008)

Very interesting little aircraft. And a shame that I overlooked it in Schleissheim. It stands right beside the HF-24 Marut. It's called Hispano Aviacion HA-300 there, but this is ok, knowing the history of the plane.

Deutsches Museum: HA-300

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 18, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> It stands right beside the HF-24 Marut.



Appropriate, Krabat, as there was Indian interest in the E-300 powerplant powering a later variant of the HF-24. 

In the background is an Egyptian An-12 testbed with the E-300.






Krabat42 said:


> It's called Hispano Aviacion HA-300 there







Article - Helwan-300: The Egyptian Interceptor Project

Not sure why Krabat. The Germano-Spanish design was bought lock, stock and barrel by the Egyptian Helwan Air Works, which was inaugurated formally by President Nasser on July 25 1962. The original design was a tailless delta, but this quickly changed once the project went to Egypt. 



New one...


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 18, 2008)

Italian. A Savoia-Marchetti design?


----------



## Graeme (Apr 18, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Italian. A Savoia-Marchetti design?



Nope, but this should help you Krabat...


----------



## paaln (Apr 18, 2008)

Curtiss CT-1


----------



## Graeme (Apr 19, 2008)

paaln said:


> Curtiss CT-1



Yep.

Another one...


----------



## SoD Stitch (Apr 19, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Yep.
> 
> Another one...



Air racer, short, stubby fuselage, big radial engine hanging out front . . . . I'm guessing one of the BG designs.


----------



## Graeme (Apr 19, 2008)

SoD Stitch said:


> BG design.



BG?

Bee Gee.

Gee Bee.

Granville Brothers.

Not sure what you mean by 'BG design' Stitch, but if you're referring to the Granville Brothers, then you're on the right track. The designer/builder of this racer was a disgruntled ex-chief designer for the Granville Brothers.


----------



## paaln (Apr 19, 2008)

Is it Bob Hall's Bulldog?


----------



## Graeme (Apr 19, 2008)

paaln said:


> Is it Bob Hall's Bulldog?



Correct, again, paaln!

Hall Bulldog Racer


----------



## paaln (Apr 20, 2008)

true pioneerism


----------



## Graeme (Apr 20, 2008)

paaln said:


> true pioneerism



Certainly is paaln!

Is it a version of the Avro No.1 Triplane? (there appears to be many of them)


----------



## paaln (Apr 21, 2008)

That's the caption on the pic I sto... borrowed, so you nailed that one, too


----------



## comiso90 (Apr 21, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Is it a version of the Avro No.1 Triplane? (there appears to be many of them)



Looks like a couple book shelves, scaffolding and a ceiling fan..

I cant believe it flew!

.


----------



## Graeme (Apr 22, 2008)

comiso90 said:


> I cant believe it flew!



It flew 900ft and was financed by a men's trouser braces company called Everard and Co. 

New one...


----------



## SoD Stitch (Apr 22, 2008)

Graeme said:


> It flew 900ft and was financed by a men's trouser braces company called Everard and Co.
> 
> New one...



I'm guessing a Curtis of some sort . . . . too small to be a Supermarine.


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 22, 2008)

US, you can see the tips of the stars on the upper wing. But a small engine for a race plane. A three cylinder radial should be not that hard to find. Searching.

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 22, 2008)

SoD Stitch said:


> I'm guessing a Curtis of some sort



Nope, but it is American...



Krabat42 said:


> But a small engine for a race plane.



*Very* small. I'm hoping those guys are just being 'flamboyant' to illustrate its miniature status!?

(Krabat/paaln..you guys got any tips on this?...AviaQuiz - Name That Plane!)


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 22, 2008)

> AviaQuiz - Name That Plane!



No idea yet, maybe a czech type. i will ask Chris.

Krabat


----------



## Captain Dunsel (Apr 22, 2008)

Sperry Messenger on floats?


CD


----------



## Graeme (Apr 23, 2008)

Captain Dunsel said:


> Sperry Messenger on floats? CD



Getting warmer. The way I understand it Captain, the Messenger inspired the Navy to produce something similar. Consequently, the Bureau of Aeronautics designed this single-seat scout but the Navy contracted *two* other firms to manufacture it. One built it in aluminium and the other in wood. Happy to accept either name...

It could also be stowed aboard a submarine.


----------



## Graeme (Apr 25, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Consequently, the Bureau of Aeronautics designed this single-seat scout but the Navy contracted *two* other firms to manufacture it. One built it in aluminium and the other in wood.



No more takers?





The Cox-Klemin XS (wood) or Martin MS (aluminium).


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 25, 2008)

You got us this time. I wasn't even close.  

Krabat


----------



## Engineer (Apr 27, 2008)

I'll post in here, but this isn't really a quiz.

I saw a picture in a "planes of the Luftwaffe" book at a used book store today, of two mechs rearming a plane that had two LMGs on the side of the fuselage, with the lower one placed slightly ahead of the upper one. The canopy opened up over top, but looked quite a bit like a 109E canopy - the one that opens to the side.

There were no engines visible, but I got the impression that it was (at least) a two engine aircraft.

First off, I was thinking Hs 129, but it seemed to me that the engine was too far away from the fuselage, given the angle of the shot.

Could it be an Fw 187? How were the MGs placed in that type?

Edit: Nevermind, I saw the "mistakes in aviation thread", which had pics of the Fw187. It's a perfect match.


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 28, 2008)

The Fw-187 would have been my thought too. Anice little plane with excellent performance. But now for something completely different:





Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 28, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> But now for something completely different:



Hi Krabat.

Immediately thought British and Bristol (don't really know why). Now I'm going American and Thomas Morse. The Thomas Morse S-4C?...


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 28, 2008)

Yepp, that was fast. I could live with "Thomas-Morse Scout". Thought it would be interesting to go away from the WW2 planes. by the way: Do you got the current AviaQuiz? Took me two seconds this time.  

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 29, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Do you got the current AviaQuiz? Took me two seconds this time.



Took me *much* longer Krabat. Knew it was a Dragon, but which one? DH 84, DH 86, DH 89 or DH 90? they all seem to have the same windmilling alternator on the top wing and cabin layout. Then I found the photo they used (very rare for me). *DH 89A Dragon Rapide.*

What about a thread devoted to 'solving' their photos? (or attempting to) I can't see any harm in it.

Crazy happenings in nearby Austria, Krabat  Big news in Australia...

The Associated Press: Police: Dad confesses to holding daughter captive 24 years

I guess Stockinger and Rex slipped up somewhere?! This is twice isn't?



Krabat42 said:


> Thought it would be interesting to go away from the WW2 planes. by the way: Krabat



Sure. Here's my entry....


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 29, 2008)

> DH 89A Dragon Rapide



Got it at the first sight. We had six of them flying in Formation at Flying Legends 2005.



> What about a thread devoted to 'solving' their photos? (or attempting to) I can't see any harm in it.



Yes, a good idea, why not. Let's do it. I can see no harm either.



> Crazy happenings in nearby Austria



Yeah, unbelievable, but - to be honest - I wasn't that surprised. In my own pessimistic view: The people and the media will be upset but they will look away the next time when they see their next door neighbour is beating his wife. It's high time that people take responsibiliy for what they do and especially what they not do. In Schwerin the mayor Claussen is voted away after the death from starvation of a girl. Grave mistake by his social welfare office. And what about the people who knew that something was wrong and saw that the office did nothing? They are not innocent either.

But that's going off topic now so back to the quiz: Is it russian or austrian?

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 29, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Yes, a good idea, why not. Let's do it. I can see no harm either.



OK. I'll start one with the next AviaQuiz photo.



Krabat42 said:


> And what about the people who knew that something was wrong and saw that the office did nothing? They are not innocent either.



Very true. We had a story of a man found dead after one year in a housing commission flat that hit the headlines with the media and 'public' blaming the government for failing to monitor its old people, yet his fellow neighbouring tennants appeared oblivious to his piling mail and sudden disappearance... 

The 7.30 Report - ABC

And we are not alone...

Council tenant shared flat with dead lodger for eight years | UK news | The Guardian



Krabat42 said:


> Is it russian or austrian?Krabat



Italian (Caproni). Another shot...


----------



## Graeme (Apr 30, 2008)

Poor subject choice? It's the Caproni-Pensuti Triplane of 1918...

Breguet's Aircraft ID Challenge #373 - The Aerodrome Forum

Try again? This should be easier. From memory it was a mount for one of the characters in the cartoon TV series called "Dastardly and Muttley in their Flying Machines".

Dastardly and Muttley in Their Flying Machines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





The aeroplane in question...


----------



## Old Wizard (Apr 30, 2008)

Know this one?






Designed as a trainer but flopped because it was too easy to fly!


----------



## Graeme (Apr 30, 2008)

Old Wizard said:


> Know this one? Designed as a trainer but flopped because it was too easy to fly!



The Fleet Model 60 Fort.





Fleet Fort - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Old Wizard (Apr 30, 2008)

Graeme said:


> The Fleet Model 60 Fort.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yup, that's it. Kind of ugly/cute.


----------



## v2 (May 2, 2008)

next one...


----------



## Graeme (May 3, 2008)

Hmmm...No interest in this one from above?...





Fair enough then. It is/was the Breguet-Michelin V...





Derived from the Breguet-Michelin BU3 - it was purposefully designed as a pusher, because at one time the French Chief of Staff's idea was to simplify the identification of French aircraft for the anti-aircraft batteries. Germans were tractor and the French products were to be pushers. The concept didn't last long.

v2, this...





Looks like this...





...the Czechoslovakian Tatra T.1 Two-seat Light Cabin Monoplane.

However I have had no success googling "TATRA" so I'm wondering if it has another name. The tail is certainly 'Bucker' in appearance and I wonder if they borrowed it for the T.1, as they also manufactured the Bucker Jungmann under license.


----------



## v2 (May 4, 2008)

Graeme said:


> v2, this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





and a bonus... Aviators.cz - Historie a souèastnost letadel TATRA


----------



## Graeme (May 4, 2008)

Thanks v2. Nice looking aeroplane. Thanks for the restoration site.

But I find it discouraging that Googling 'Tatra' from this end of the planet received no hits whatsoever.


----------



## Graeme (May 7, 2008)




----------



## A4K (May 7, 2008)

The Northrop/ McDonnell-Douglas YF-23. (shot on the starboard exhaust)


----------



## Graeme (May 7, 2008)

A4K said:


> The Northrop/ McDonnell-Douglas YF-23. (shot on the starboard exhaust)


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 7, 2008)

Wildcat


----------



## Kruska (May 7, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Wildcat



Hello kool kitty,

NO, the a/c is a USN Thumbs Up. 

Regards
Kruska


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 7, 2008)

I don't think it's a Hellcat, it really looks like a Wildcat's canopy. The TBF/TBM is the only other thing close and that doesn't look right either...

Or was that a joke?


----------



## Kruska (May 8, 2008)

Hello kool kitty89,

Yes, I tried to put it as a joke since I interpret Graeme’s pic as a “thumbs up” =(you got it right A4K) and not as a new identification picture.

Regards 
Kruska


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 8, 2008)

Oh... 

But on a related note I think the History channel's dogfights gas been using the Avenger's canopy in the cockpit shots for the Hellcat.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ob3lvqowHo_


----------



## Kruska (May 8, 2008)

Hello kool kitty89,

You might be correct, but honestly I do not know much about US a/c’s used in the PTO = I am not very familiar with most types in order to identify them correctly besides an F-4U or types also used in the ETO.

Regards
Kruska


----------



## A4K (May 8, 2008)

Yeah, it was a 'thumbs up'! But I think you're right Kitty - I'd say it's an F6F Hellcat, too.


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 8, 2008)

Um, I said a Wildcat, but as Kruska pointed out I don't think it was an identifcation pic. 


That internal view of the Hellcat on dogfights is wrong though, seen in the link I posted. (it looks like an Avenger)


----------



## wingnuts (May 8, 2008)

Saburo Sakai also had a problem distinguishing the Wildcat and the Avenger....  

"I made a mistake while attacking a flight of Avengers, as I had mistaken them as being Wildcats from the rear. I closed in to less than fifty yards and was in the crossfire of eight aircraft’s defensive gunners. They tore my plane up."


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 8, 2008)

I think that happened at Guadalcanal the same day Sakai has the fight with James "Pug" Southerland. After the encounter with Southerland Sakai continued more or less a combat patroll (he'd initially been an escort) and saw what he thought was a formation of fighters in the distance, by the time he realized they were bombert he decided it was too late to turn back and the gunners had there sights on him.

He had a .30 cal round hit the windshield and go clean through his head above his right eye. Amazingly he survived, but lost sight in one eye, and actually returned to combat.

They had a show about it on PBS:

I posted this http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/dog-fights-history-channel-8558-11.html


> But on topic I saw the PBS "Secrets of The Dead" Guadalcanal episode tonight. Very interesting.SECRETS OF THE DEAD . Dogfight Over Guadalcanal | PBS http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation-videos/james-pug-southerland-vs-saburo-sakai-5794.html
> Looks like some of the same type of animation they used in Dogfights.
> 
> And they had Barrett Tillman, who also regularly apears on Dogfights.





> Sakai, meanwhile, watched Pug's plane crash into the jungle, then headed off to find other American planes to attack. He soon found some, but was gravely wounded by an American tail gunner whose bullet went through the Zero's windshield and into his head. Barely conscious, Sakai somehow managed to make the harrowing, five-hour flight back to his base in Rabaul, keeping himself lucid along the way by irritating his own wounds.





> The range and speed of Sakai's Zero (and a good bit of luck) allowed him to get the best of Pug Southerland in their spectacular dogfight, but had Pug's guns been working, he would likely have been able to shoot down the flimsy Zero. And shortly after Sakai shot down Pug, the limitations of his airplane were put clearly on display with devastating consequences when he was shot by a tail gunner from an American bomber. The tail gunner's .30 caliber bullet pierced the Zero's windshield and went through Sakai's eye and brain before exiting on the other side of his skull. If his Zero had been equipped with bulletproof glass, Sakai would likely have escaped unharmed.
> 
> Wounded and only semi-conscious, Sakai had little chance of surviving. But his skill -- and the extreme range of the lightweight Zero -- allowed him to fly all the way back to Rabaul with the little fuel he had remaining. Had he been flying any other contemporary fighter, he almost certainly would have perished. To this day, his flight is considered one of the most amazing feats in aviation history, and if not for his trusty Zero, none would ever have heard his account of the famous dogfight.


----------



## pbfoot (May 8, 2008)

help with this would be nice it flew over the other day and I want to say Transall C160 but its a little out of it's neighbourhood and it just doesn't look right to me


----------



## Kruska (May 9, 2008)

Hello pbfoot,

what makes you think that it might not be a Transall C-160. Could it be that you took these photos in May-June 2006?

The a/c color scheme on your photos indicates a French Transall C-160, and they had a couple of these during Maple Flag 2006 and 2005 at Cold Lake Air-Weapons-Range training with the 441 and 416 Tactical Fighter Squadron of 4 Wing. (I heard one of them is now called 409 Tactical Squadron?).

View attachment 62744


View attachment 62745


Regards
Kruska


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## Graeme (May 9, 2008)

A4K said:


> Yeah, it was a 'thumbs up'!



Affirmative!



kool kitty89 said:


> Um, I said a Wildcat, but as Kruska pointed out I *don't think it was an identifcation pic*.



Correct.



pbfoot said:


> help with this would be nice it flew over the other day and I want to say Transall C160 but its a little out of it's neighbourhood and it just doesn't look right to me



I'm with you and Kruska, definitely looks like a C-160. 








Nice photos by the way pb. I enjoy those long-distance 'observer' identification challenges. Very popular in English magazines from the 50s, 60s and 70s.


----------



## A4K (May 9, 2008)

Um, I said a Wildcat (Quote: Kool Kitty)

Um, yes, sorry... was thinking about Wildcats and Hellcats and decided it was probably the latter...In which case I DISagreed with your comment - but you were right in the end! ...I'll just keep quiet and go back to my corner now...someone pass me another beer?


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 9, 2008)




----------



## pbfoot (May 9, 2008)

Kruska said:


> Hello pbfoot,
> 
> what makes you think that it might not be a Transall C-160. Could it be that you took these photos in May-June 2006?
> 
> ...



took it about 2-4 weeks ago


----------



## Graeme (May 10, 2008)

In the meantime, a new one....


----------



## Captain Dunsel (May 10, 2008)

Second try.

Fairey Flycatcher. Here's my model of it. About 24" span, Skatty motor, 360 squares at 17 oz.

CD


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 10, 2008)

Try and downsize your pics a little bit next time.


----------



## Graeme (May 11, 2008)

Captain Dunsel said:


> Second try.
> 
> Fairey Flycatcher. Here's my model of it. About 24" span, Skatty motor, 360 squares at 17 oz.
> 
> CD



Nice model Captain! I guess you'd be familiar with the Fairey Flycatcher from any angle, after building that!


----------



## Old Wizard (May 11, 2008)

This one should be pretty easy.


----------



## Graeme (May 11, 2008)

Old Wizard said:


> This one should be pretty easy.



Me 309.

Another German...


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 11, 2008)

Looks somewhat like a Bf 108, but the gear (inwar insteas of outward), the tail and rear canopy are wrong.

Also a little like the Bu 181


But it's got an air cooled inverted V (not a 4-6 cylinder inverted inline), either V-8, or V-12. Argus As 10, 410, 411, or Hirth Hm 508 or Hm 512.


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 11, 2008)

Found it: Gotha Go 149 powered by a 240 PS As 10C inverted V-8

Gotha Go 149


----------



## Graeme (May 11, 2008)

Nicely done KK! Perseverance is the secret to life...


----------



## Graeme (May 12, 2008)

Another one...


----------



## Kruska (May 12, 2008)

Old Wizard said:


> This one should be pretty easy.



Darn it, finally an aircraft I would have known and I missed it.  

Regards
Kruska


----------



## paaln (May 12, 2008)

DB-2 (ANT-37bis). Designed by Sukhoy while working for Tupolev


----------



## v2 (May 12, 2008)

Another one...


----------



## Graeme (May 12, 2008)

paaln said:


> DB-2 (ANT-37bis). Designed by Sukhoy while working for Tupolev



Yes.



v2 said:


> Another one...






FW 191.


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 12, 2008)

Focke-Wulf Fw 191


----------



## Graeme (May 12, 2008)

v2 said:


> Another one...



Initially I thought it was this...This is a...?


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 13, 2008)

Not Dornier is it? It kind of looks like a 217, but not. (looks like 801's on it though)


----------



## Graeme (May 17, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Not Dornier is it?



Nope, not Dornier.


----------



## Captain Dunsel (May 17, 2008)

Main canopy looks a lot like a Ju-88's, though.

CD


----------



## Graeme (May 18, 2008)

Captain Dunsel said:


> Main canopy looks a lot like a Ju-88's, though.
> 
> CD



Close enough. The caption calls it a Ju 88T-1, a reconnaissance version of the high-performance Ju 88S.

Not a lot on it, internet wise.

Junkers Ju 88T


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 18, 2008)

I was thinking Ju 88 or Do 217, but the glazing threw me off.


----------



## Waynos (May 18, 2008)

Hi, this my first post in here. Is it alright if I join in?

If anyone can identify this aircraft I would also be grateful for any additional info anyone can supply me with.


----------



## Graeme (May 18, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Hi, this my first post in here. Is it alright if I join in?



Certainly! Welcome to the forum.



Waynos said:


> If anyone can identify this aircraft I would also be grateful for any additional info anyone can supply me with.



Could well be wrong, but I think it's a Renard-36.

Renard R-36 - fighter


----------



## Waynos (May 18, 2008)

Excellent, thank you, that is exactly what I was hoping for. That image, and subsequently the only info I had on the plane, are from the 1938 Janes All the Worlds Aircraft so I have been wondering 'what happened next'?


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## Krabat42 (May 19, 2008)

> ...been wondering 'what happened next'?



The Belgian government bought Hurricanes.

Oh, and Hi, I'm back too. Looks like the forum doesn't work when I'm away  

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (May 20, 2008)

Next...





Still interested in an AviaQuiz thread Krabat?


----------



## Krabat42 (May 20, 2008)

> Still interested in an AviaQuiz thread Krabat?



Of course. Let's just use the pics. Obviously you found this one out yet. I have to search my files this afternoon. this one's british?

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (May 20, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Let's just use the pics. Krabat


Hi Krabat,

My thought is to create a separate thread (if allowed-as in some ways it would be similar to this thread) and each 72 hr image would be downloaded to the forum for discussion/identification. If you post them here, the inference is that the poster knows the answer. The difference being, as you know, no one 'actually' knows the answer. What are your thoughts?

The above is American.

AviaQuiz - Name That Plane!


----------



## Krabat42 (May 20, 2008)

Yes, thats the better idea. Let's do it when the next pic comes up.

This one looks somewhat like a Packard LePere LUSAC, maybe a variant or a planned successor...

O.K. I got it: LUSAC-11 altitude record airplane 

Krabat


----------



## Storch (May 20, 2008)

Graeme said:


> A rare flying boat...




Hello Everybody

Graeme;

Can you tell me what is this plane please?,Thanks!8) 

Storch


----------



## comiso90 (May 20, 2008)

any guesses?

.


----------



## Graeme (May 21, 2008)

comiso90 said:


> any guesses?.



Lazy bastard that I am, I always view the forum in a 'not logged in' status, until something 'bites' me, comiso.

Your image has "siemtopglider" viewable in your post above. So I thought what the heck, lets google that. One of only two hits was this... 

"Watson's Wizards" and the Me-262 - rec.aviation.military | Google Groups

A thread from a forum with some guys arguing (very entertaining) about Hanna Reitsch Vs Eric Brown. I thought that it was completely unrelated, but some how, they started talking about cruise missiles/glide bombs, and there it was, the *Siemens WW1 glidebomb.*

Siemens torpedo glider - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 'power' of the internet never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## comiso90 (May 21, 2008)

It helps to be a good "Googler"... I should have renamed the pic before I posted!

It looks like something made in a garage... very cool!

Good job Sherlock!


----------



## Graeme (May 21, 2008)

Storch said:


> Can you tell me what is this plane please?,Thanks!8)





Graeme said:


> Mine from above,
> -Only one built.
> -Japanese.
> -1924.
> ...





Krabat42 said:


> Yes, thats the better idea. Let's do it when the next pic comes up.



Okay.



Krabat42 said:


> O.K. I got it: LUSAC-11 altitude record airplane



That's the one...

Packard-Le PerÃ© LUSAC-11 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Graeme (May 21, 2008)

comiso90 said:


> I should have renamed the pic before I posted!



Hi cosimo,

I guess so! I still think it's amazing that googling that alphabet soup produced 'hits'.

Is that Forum I posted above, where you found the photograph?


----------



## Krabat42 (May 21, 2008)

> I still think it's amazing that googling that alphabet soup produced 'hits'.



It really works. A few weeks ago i posted a collection of pins to identify. One of them had kyrillic letters and I translated them 1:1 and put in google "ukrvosduchputch". And voila, a long defunct ukrainian airline.



> ... arguing (very entertaining) about Hanna Reitsch Vs Eric Brown.



By the way. Winkle Brown will be in Munich on June 5th speaking about late war german aircraft technology. I will be there, even with a good quantum of caution and doubt because of the good old "oral history" thing.  Mind you, he's well over 80 years old now.

Krabat


----------



## Storch (May 21, 2008)

Thanks Graeme!

I trusted that you spok about an other plane in different post!

Thank you!


----------



## Krabat42 (May 21, 2008)

A new one: [URL=http://imageshack.us]

[/URL]


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## Grampa (May 21, 2008)

A picture of an tailgunner on the Mitsubishi G4M "betty"?


----------



## Graeme (May 21, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> A new one:



Tail turret of an early Mitsubishi G4M?


----------



## Krabat42 (May 21, 2008)

I'm impressed: I got the pic from Wikipedia, but I didn't think you got it that fast. Those 20mm tail guns in the Betty are tough, I got shot down by them at least twice in my P-38. I remember one particular mission when the literally ripped apart Chris' Lightning. 

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (May 21, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> "The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming." (with a young Carl Reiner). One of the best films with a cold war theme. Very Dr.Strangelovesque.
> 
> Krabat







Hi Krabat,

Read that John Phillip Law, of "The Russians are Coming!" fame, died recently. Didn't realise he had such extensive acting portfolio... 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/movies/16law.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin

John Phillip Law


----------



## Graeme (May 23, 2008)

What amphibian does 'The Ghost Who Walks' fly?...


----------



## Waynos (May 23, 2008)

Is it a Sikorsky S-38?


----------



## Graeme (May 24, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Is it a Sikorsky S-38?



It is, Waynos.


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## Waynos (May 24, 2008)

Nice drawing! I always preferred Commando books where the drawings of the aircraft were accurate looking 

Here's one to have a go at, it is a bit obscure.







Is there any sort of ruling on the types of pictures posted here? Do they have to be '30's/WW2 or can you post anything?


----------



## Graeme (May 24, 2008)

Hi Waynos!



Waynos said:


> Is there any sort of ruling on the types of pictures posted here? Do they have to be '30's/WW2 or can you post anything?



If you look back it appears we have gotten away with just about any aircraft in the history of aviation! 



Waynos said:


> Here's one to have a go at, it is a bit obscure.



Sorry Waynos. but you'll have to accept that others have Jane's '38... 

*The Hall XPTBH-1.*

Here's one not in the '38...


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## Waynos (May 24, 2008)

"Sorry Waynos. but you'll have to accept that others have Jane's '38..."

lol, fair enough. scratch that as a source then, or better still - don't announce where they come from 

As to your pic, I haven't a clue - it looks a bit 1932, but the '38 Janes is my oldest source. I shall have to dig deep or wait for somebody else to get it.

btw, are unbuilt projects allowed or must they have flown? Some unbuilt projects are obviously just a designers doodles but some progressed quite far without flying obviously.


----------



## Graeme (May 24, 2008)

Waynos said:


> I shall have to dig deep .



No need Waynos. Try looking for a BLERIOT design.



Waynos said:


> btw, are unbuilt projects allowed or must they have flown? Some unbuilt projects are obviously just a designers doodles but some progressed quite far without flying obviously.



Personally, if they weren't constructed or at least a mock-up that was photographed, then they shouldn't be here. As you pointed out 'designer doodle' numbers would be in the 'tens' of thousands.


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## Waynos (May 24, 2008)

I found it, the Bleriot 111! I did think it was a Bleriot but didn't want to guess in case I was miles out and looked stupid, lol.

"if they weren't constructed or at least a mock-up that was photographed, " that sounds like a very sensible demarcation.

Here's one that shouldn't be difficult, I include it here because I like it


----------



## Grampa (May 24, 2008)

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q_zNrj0GpM_

correct?


----------



## Graeme (May 24, 2008)

No doubt about it. Where's your image from Waynos?


----------



## Waynos (May 24, 2008)

Same place as yours because I had to crop that very caption off to post it. I forget which book (its been on my pc a very long time) but its one of several 'worst planes' books I have.

Here's another entertaining photo, id the plane?


----------



## dante565 (May 24, 2008)

does any one know this aircraft..thx


----------



## Waynos (May 24, 2008)

Looks like a T-6 with a raised and reprofiled rear fuselage, for a movie maybe?


----------



## Graeme (May 24, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Same place as yours because I had to crop that very caption off to post it.



OK, I'll remove that book as a photo source then... 



Waynos said:


> Here's another entertaining photo, id the plane?



Looks like a car-eating Westland Wyvern.



dante565 said:


> does any one know this aircraft..thx



A North American P-64? (Do they still exist?)

Edit - Can't be, the tail shape is wrong.


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 24, 2008)

Looks more like a Wirraway, though the USAAF symbol...






And the span looks a bit short for either a T-6 or a Wirraway, and it apears to be a single-seater, possably a Boomerang, that insignia still bothers me though...


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 24, 2008)

P-64 would makes sense, and it would look a lot like a Boomerang (both developed from the NA-16)


Here's the full immage:







Actually it looks more like the NA-16/Wirraway than either the T-6 or Boomerang, as the tail and rear fusalage stayed about the same. (the T-6 having the triangular fin, and the Boomerang getting a stocker fusalage and a redesigned fin)


----------



## Waynos (May 24, 2008)

Definitely not a Boomerang or a P-64, too long in the fuselage and too much glazing. It has the same tail shape as the Wirraway though whereas the T-6 had the same shape as the P-64. Does the oddly reshaped wing tip ring a bell for anyone?

I still think it is a two seater that has been modified to represent one of the single seaters we have mentioned (in the same way that T-6's were modified to represent Japanese dive bombers in Tora Tora Tora)


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 24, 2008)

Wait I looked at the P-64 too and it's got the T-6 type tail.

So maybe one of the Wirraways converted to an emergency fighter.


And it still looks a lot like a Wirrawyay either way. (it Has the Wirraway tail and fusalage)


That 3-blade prop is somthing to note too. (I think all the Wirraways Used 2-blade like the T-6)


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 24, 2008)

Definitely not a Tora Tora Tora T-6, those were converted to Zeros, but retained the 3-blade prop iirc.


----------



## Waynos (May 24, 2008)

The P-64 has the angled wingtip as well so, my final call, is NOT a P-64, but a Wirraway altered to look like one. I'd put money on that.

You misunderstand me KK. I'm not saying its one of those, I used that as an example of how the airframe can be altered to look like something else, and the P-64 is a lot less radical a mod than a Zero.


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 24, 2008)

And that mystery plane looks like it may have a secod seat (possibly modified for passenger rides like other Warbirds have, or retaining one if it was converted form a Wirraway)

And here's a P-64, fusalage stocky like the Boomerang:


----------



## Waynos (May 24, 2008)

Yes, look at the difference in the fuselage and canopy. But by altering a Wirraway with a bit of rear fuselage decking you've got a cheap replica.


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 24, 2008)

There also seems to be a lot of variety amongst P-64's some with that Wirraway type tail: Aircraft: North American P-64 NA 50


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 24, 2008)

From tha Website, some also have ronded wing tips AND the Wirraway tail and 2-seats! (some also have prop spinners, but that's out of context)

This one looks almost the same as the earlier pic:


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 24, 2008)

North American P-64

See thare that there were a number of development changes throught the NA-50 and resulting NA-68 and P-64 line. (the P-64's were NA-68's)

So the one seen with the rounder tail and wings is almost definitely a NA-50. (in some cases modified with a second seat)

Aviation Photos: North American NA-50


----------



## Waynos (May 24, 2008)

Credit where its due KK, that is an excellent find.

I'm not convinced that it is a genuine NA-50 however. I am assuming that the ones on that page *are* genuine, but the glazing does not match with 'our' picture.

That said there are so many variations on this basic design can we really tell for certain?


----------



## Waynos (May 24, 2008)

From reading the page you have linked to it would seem that the NA-50 was only built as a single seat fighter. If that is so maybe all the two seaters are just modified Texan/Wirraway airframes?


----------



## Graeme (May 24, 2008)

Waynos said:


> If that is so maybe all the two seaters are just modified Texan/Wirraway airframes?



Makes sense.

It's certainly not an 'original' North American fighter product.


----------



## Waynos (May 24, 2008)

I almost forgot, you were right with the Wyvern. Here's the original, with caption.


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 24, 2008)

Graeme look at my above posts on the NA-50, it looks almost identical to the mistery a/c in question.

The further development NA-68 (USAAF P-64) had significant modifications. And some NA-50's in the pictures seem to have rounded wings.


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 24, 2008)

And the glazing looks the same to me.
















They may also just be NA-50's modified as 2-seaters, like's been done with many warbirds.



and for pics, again:

Aviation Photos: North American NA-50
Aircraft: North American P-64 NA 50


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 24, 2008)

I was wrong there is only 1 NA-50 left (in Peru) and a couple real NA-68 P-64's around. But neither match the a/c in those immages. (both had square wings)


That is an AT-6 Harvard. (aparently modified to look like a NA-50, although I don't know where they got the tail)
At least according to: Commerative Air Force 50th Anniversary Airsho'

Here's the same a/c I think:


----------



## Wildcat (May 25, 2008)

KK is correct, its a replica P-64 made from a T-6. See A Warbirds Resource Group Site :: View topic - 05-03-08 Temple, TX air show photos Scroll 3/4 of the way down.
BTW, Wirraways have 3 blade props not two.


----------



## Graeme (May 25, 2008)

G'day Wildcat,

Thanks for that forum site. And from it...

_"That airplane was built as an NA-50 replica, but is now being called a P-64. It was originally started by Les Crowder and then finished up by Ezell Aviation. I worked on that airplane a fair amount while at Nelson's place, but most of the modification work had already been done by Les Crowder when we got it. *It started out as an AT-6*, but had the wings shortened, rudder enlarged, T-33 wheels installed, and an R-1820 bolted to the front. The firewall forward is a booger to work on, but I'm told the airplane is a real hoot to fly.Gary_"

So lets clarify this. It started life a North American T-6 Texan. They modified it, as Gary states, to look like a NA-50, with obvious vertical fin surgery...





But it is "now being called a P-64" (but still retaining the NA-50 Surgery).








To me, it STILL looks more like a NA-50 than a P-64, but the correct answer is a *modified North American T-6 Texan?*


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2008)

Wildcat said:


> KK is correct, its a replica P-64 made from a T-6.




 

Wildcat, you wound me.

But I'm just being a prima donna, having said that about two pages ago

KK, Graeme;
Bearing in mind the tail shape and the three blade prop, isn't it more likely to have been modified from a Wirraway in the first place, otherwise it seems a lot of trouble to go to to fit the 'wrong' shape tail?

As far as I can tell, the curved rudder trailing edge is only a feature of the Wirraway and never appeared on the NA-50 or the P-64. I am looking at the rudder shape in KK's aerial shot at the top of the page and the two side profiles posted by Graeme, all three rudders are different but the one in KK's photo matches the Wirraway, but I rattle on too much, what do you guys think?


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 25, 2008)

Yeah I thought the same thing, if you want a P-64 use a T-6, if you want a NA-50 use a Wirraway, though the only (noticible) difference is the rudder its self, the fin and tailplane being the same so it may not be a big deal. 

In fact it apears to be a Wirraway's fin as it is somewhat different from the NA-50's rudder, more rounded trailing edge, so if the rudder was obtainable and they already had a T-6 why not? and I'd immagine Wirraway's are not nearly as common as T-6's (particularly in the US).


And that replica's got a Jet's (T-33) landing gear!  I thought it might have been a typo, but looking closer those shre look like a Shoting Star's gear.


----------



## Graeme (May 25, 2008)

Waynos said:


> isn't it more likely to have been modified from a Wirraway in the first place, otherwise it seems a lot of trouble to go to to fit the 'wrong' shape tail?





Waynos said:


> what do you guys think?



Hi Waynos,

"Gary", who worked on the aircraft, says it started off as a NORTH AMERICAN AT-6 TEXAN. I have no reason to doubt his experience. Accepting this, they wanted it to LOOK like an NA-50 fighter.

Is it possible that detailed plans for the NA-50's tail are no longer in existence?

Is it possible that they used Wirraway/Boomerang tail plans instead, which Australian warbird restorers would be knee-deep in, as they are flying in this country?









It certainly looks more like a Wirraway/Boomerang tail than either the NA-50 or Texan/P-64 tail, but maybe that was their only alternative.

But why they now want to just call it a P-64, is beyond me. It looks more like a hybrid, but the longer nose, elongated canopy and second seat, still smacks of Texan to me.


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2008)

Yes, I think that is all entirely possible. The guy must surely know what aircraft he started out with.


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2008)

From the long silence can I assume we are done with that one?

Here's another to have a go at;


----------



## David Cohen (May 25, 2008)

Hmmm. I think its either a DC-12 or some other transport judging by the part in the foreground


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2008)

Don't know what a DC-17 is, but it is a transport.


----------



## David Cohen (May 25, 2008)

I just checked and I made that up. I was thinking about the DC-3. Its the DC-3 or the C-54


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2008)

Sorry no, not that. Think post war. Just to be clear, what you see in the photograph is the rear fuselage of the aircraft with its own wing in front of it during assembly, they do belong together if it helps..


----------



## David Cohen (May 25, 2008)

What year are we talking about?


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2008)

1955, and here is the same scene from a different angle;


----------



## Grampa (May 25, 2008)

The closest one I can find is this
Sud Aviation Caravelle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But I cant be sure if there is gonna be an elevationrudder placed in the middle on the tailfin


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2008)

No, its not that one, Maybe I should point out that this is the prototype, and it was going to be a military transport.


----------



## Graeme (May 25, 2008)

Time frame is wrong for this, but early Vickers VC10?


----------



## comiso90 (May 25, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Hi cosimo,
> 
> 
> Is that Forum I posted above, where you found the photograph?



yep


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2008)

Ooh, Graeme you are getting very warm, and you are right when you say that the timeframe is wrong for the VC-10, so it must be........?

Does it help if I also say that this prototype never actually got to fly, for purely political reasons?


----------



## Graeme (May 25, 2008)

Waynos! you sly old dog! you're quite the author!...

Would-be 707 rivals, page 1


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2008)

Hey, well found! I guess you know the answer now then 

It was the Vickers V.1000, XD662, photographed at the point of cancellation


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2008)

I've a confession on this one, I've forgotten what its called or where I got it from! So, over to you while I try to look it up again. Also I'll try to find some WW2 stuff tomorrow that (hopefully) isn't TOO obvious, though that may be a forlorn hope with you guys.


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 25, 2008)

Narrow fusalage and high mounted tailplane reminds me of the Whirlwind, but it's probably unrelated.


----------



## Grampa (May 26, 2008)

showed earlier
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/post-war/german-aircraft-designs-argentina-1946-1960-a-8348.html


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 26, 2008)

And it does look a lot like the Whirlwind:


----------



## Graeme (May 26, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Hey, well found! I guess you know the answer now then.It was the Vickers V.1000, XD662, photographed at the point of cancellation



I think you fobbed off your efforts on that forum Waynos. That was a great post. You should start a few threads like it here. In fact I tried to join it, but kept getting this...

_"ERROR!
Your browser must be configured to accept cookies in order to create an account and log in to AboveTopSecret.com.
Please configure your web browser to accept cookies, then return here to try again to create your member account."_

(What does it all mean?)

In your post you mentioned the Avro Atlantic. I've known about the Avro Atlantic for many years. It would be politically incorrect now, but I have an old British book, given to me many years ago, titled "The Boys Book of Aircraft" from around the early 50's. And from it..





It certainly would have looked "majestic". I like the spotters tips for a non-existent aircraft!
Anyway, moving on, heres another 'British subject' to identify...


----------



## Waynos (May 26, 2008)

Thank you Graeme, you're very kind. I am a bit in awe of the knowledge displayed by many of the members on this site and would feel a bit presumptious or preachy if I tried something like that on here. I did compose a light hearted post decrying the Defiant that you might like but this site has been running so long I'm sure I would be retreading over old ground. Even my last photo was a repeat it seems, which is hard to avoid for a newbie like me.

I love that scan, I adore old books like that, especially the ones that make predictions that never came true. I have some old Flights from 1939/40 (now available freely online to view anyway) which mention us having to make do with inferior American supplied aircraft in the early part of the war, one classic line is that the Douglas DB-7 is 'very nearly up to British standards however' - I'm sure Ed Heineman would be very grateful 

There are also some excellent non existant German aircraft illustrated, including the 'deadly' Focke Wulf 198 twin boom pusher engined fighter, lol

Moving on to your photo, is it really British? It looks more French to me, like a Farman, but if it is British is it a Parnall?


----------



## A4K (May 26, 2008)

The IA-30 looks like an annorexic De havilland Sea Hornet.


----------



## Krabat42 (May 26, 2008)

> Read that John Phillip Law, of "The Russians are Coming!" fame, died recently.



Didn't know that. That's sad. He was not bad as Richthofen in the old Roger Corman movie. And what great flying scenes. You just can't do that with computers. Is it that obvious that I don't like the new Red Baron movie?  

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (May 26, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Moving on to your photo, is it really British? It looks more French to me, like a Farman, but if it is British is it a Parnall?



It's British, but not Parnall. 

Named after a Yorkshire town.

Same name as this dog breed...





...and it had a very distinctive wing shape.


----------



## A4K (May 27, 2008)

An Airedale?


----------



## Graeme (May 27, 2008)

A4K said:


> An Airedale?



Correct Evan. Now find the British *Manufacturer.*

Another clue. It was built to a tender for the FAA of 1923, to replace the Blackburn R1 Blackburn and Avro 555 Bison.


----------



## A4K (May 27, 2008)

I don't know the historical side like you guys, but the fueslage plan is similar to the Fairey Gordon or Vickers Vildebeeste or Wellesley, so my guess would be one of those two companies.


----------



## Graeme (May 27, 2008)

A4K said:


> I don't know the historical side like you guys



You don't have to mate! Google!  

Googling...

"FAA 1923 Airedale"

...and you should get...

FAA 1923 Airedale - Google Search 

Look at the very top.


----------



## Waynos (May 27, 2008)

The one thing I was certain of was that I had never seen this plane before, ever.

Then I found this, pages of info, full specs, the lot, but too late 'cos you've given us the answer


----------



## Waynos (May 27, 2008)

I have some pictures, they may be obvious, or they may not. They may even have appeared on here before. If that is so then I apologise as I am still new here. Here's the first.


----------



## Graeme (May 27, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Then I found this, pages of info, full specs, the lot



And you can scan Putnams better that I can!


----------



## A4K (May 27, 2008)

Google, google, google...


----------



## Graeme (May 27, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Here's the first.



The Short Sturgeon 1 (RK787). First flown by Geoffrey Tyson on 7 June 1946. A far cry from what it finally ended up looking like! 

New one. This is a mock-up, but it was built and flown in quantity...


----------



## A4K (May 27, 2008)

Armstrong Whitworth Argosy


----------



## Graeme (May 27, 2008)

A4K said:


> Armstrong Whitworth Argosy



=D>


----------



## A4K (May 27, 2008)

Thanks! When I was in the airforce they retired the Safe Air fleet, and two were stored on the base (ZK-SAE and -SAF). SAF got scrapped (very sad to see...) but SAE was luckily saved by some locals and moved off-base.
We were able to get into SAF, and photographed her inside and out before they scrapped her. I still have the pics (and a door lock in NZ...)


----------



## Waynos (May 27, 2008)

I can't see the Argosy image for some reason, any idea why that would be?


----------



## Waynos (May 27, 2008)

Well done on the Sturgeon, it had the look of a useful fighter at first didn't it.

Here's a plane that has fascinated me for a long time. It is something very special but yet remains virtually unkown,


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 27, 2008)

Graeme said:


> The Short Sturgeon 1 (RK787). First flown by Geoffrey Tyson on 7 June 1946. A far cry from what it finally ended up looking like!



Yeah, it looks different! I thought it was a Welkin at first.


----------



## kool kitty89 (May 27, 2008)

And it's the Su-17 (1949) http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/su-17-1950.html

Sukhoi Su-17 (1949) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It was designed to be capable of level supersonic flight, but cancelled due to ongoing engine problems, and never flew.


AL-5/TR-3, A.M.Lyulka

The engine problems doomed the similarly interesting supersonic fighter projects http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/la-190.html 
I-350 (M-1, M-2, MT) by Mikoyan-Gurevich


----------



## Graeme (May 27, 2008)

Next one to identify...


----------



## Patoruzu (May 29, 2008)

Is this perhaps a Mig 13?


----------



## Patoruzu (May 29, 2008)

Sorry SU 6 not Mig 13(I 250)


----------



## Patoruzu (May 29, 2008)

Sorry again SU 5 with a piston engine M-107A and an auxiliary compressor jet engine to act as a booster. The compressor was rotated by the M-107A engine using a shaft.


----------



## Waynos (May 29, 2008)

Could it be a Consolidated P-33? Don't think that would have had a 4 blade prop though.

Any clues, maybe just the country?


----------



## Waynos (May 29, 2008)

Oops, Patoruzu clearly beat me to it. With those images I would say that is definitely the right answer.


----------



## Waynos (May 29, 2008)

Now that the Su-5 has been identified I'd like to offer up this one;


----------



## Graeme (May 30, 2008)

Patoruzu said:


> SU 5 with a piston engine M-107A and an auxiliary compressor jet engine



It certainly is. Nicely done.



Waynos said:


> Now that the Su-5 has been identified I'd like to offer up this one



Hi Wayne,

I based my search purely on this aircraft...





And as luck would have it, the answer was close by... the *SNCAN North (NORD?) 2100 Norazur.*


----------



## Graeme (May 30, 2008)

Tit-for-tat. Another Frenchman to ponder, one which I think, is a very nice looking aeroplane...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (May 30, 2008)

Hi all,

This beauty is a SNCASE SE-1010. Four-engined recon-airplane. First flight November 24th 1948.


----------



## Graeme (May 30, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hi all



Welcome to the forum Emilio!



Emilio Lafuente said:


> This beauty is a SNCASE SE-1010.



Certainly is. Has a Republic Rainbow look to it.

One more for this evening...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (May 30, 2008)

Thanks all of you for so interesting photographs, and, please, excuse my awful English. 
Maybe a Ryan YO-51?


----------



## Patoruzu (May 30, 2008)

Can be one of the three builts Ryan YO-51?


----------



## Patoruzu (May 30, 2008)

Me parece que esta la acertamos los hispano parlantes - Emilio - Saludos
" I guess we the spanish speakers hit the mark"


----------



## Patoruzu (May 30, 2008)

Here two more photos of the DRAGONFLY


----------



## Graeme (May 30, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Thanks all of you for so interesting photographs, and, please, excuse my awful English.
> Maybe a Ryan YO-51?





Patoruzu said:


> Can be one of the three builts Ryan YO-51?



Well done guys!


----------



## Patoruzu (May 30, 2008)

Whats this??


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (May 30, 2008)

This time it´s an Argentinian airplane: the I.A.35 "Huanquero"


----------



## Waynos (May 30, 2008)

Ooh, lots of activity, lovely. Incidentally that SN 1010 was one of my other choices.

The IA 35 is definitely right so I can offer this one, with its name removed  ;


----------



## Patoruzu (May 30, 2008)

Well done it is an Huanquero - on the II Brigada Aerea near Parana city as gate guardian.
To Note the landing gear similar to that of the FW Ta154 - Same designer - Dr. Kurt Tank


----------



## Graeme (May 30, 2008)

Waynos said:


> so I can offer this one, with its name removed



The *Beech Model 34 Twin-Quad*, described as_ "the most untypical aircraft built by the company".
_




Beech obviously had a lot of experience with "V-Butterfly" tails, other than the Bonanza.







OK, another V-tail to try. Not a Beech but 'alphabetically close'....


----------



## ryoko (Jun 2, 2008)

Hi all, I'm new here and this seems to be the correct place for identifying an aircraft. I found this model at a store and just had to have it  so now that I picked it up, what is it? I was thinking at first is was a tempest but after looking at some pics I'm not too sure now. I posted about the insignia elsewhere on this forum, but if you can identify that red triangle on the wings, that would be awesome!


Thanks all,
Ry


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 3, 2008)

Looks a bit like a Brewster Buffalo (by the wings and tail), not ennough detail to be sure though.

That's a Dutch insignial btw.













The wings in your pic seem a bit too long though (and the guns seem wrong) and the nose doesn't look right.

The wing shape seems right though.
I can't make out the canopy.


It looks like 4x wing gun barrels protruding from the wing, if so it can't be a Brewster.
I don't know of any other a/c with that kind of tailplane and fin though.

With 4x wing guns, and it being Dutch, I thought it may be a Fokker D.XXI, but the wings and tail are wrong.

It's just hard to tell from that shot.


----------



## Grampa (Jun 3, 2008)

Koolhoven F.K.58?

Koolhoven F.K.58 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 3, 2008)

Hi all, the dutch model could be a Fokker D XXI, but a Buffalo too.

The little, V tailed airplane, is a Bee Aviation Queen Bee.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 3, 2008)

No trouble with the Boulton Paul P6 Emilio? 

AviaQuiz - Name That Plane! Quizs' Archive


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 3, 2008)

Hi Graeme,

A lot of trouble in fact. I was searching for observation-recon IWW biplanes with a second life as passenger carriers in the early 20´s to no avail.

A really difficult one this time..


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 3, 2008)

The tail surfaces are what get me. They really look like the Buffalo's. (elliptical tailplane and rounded triangualr fin)

The wing guns look wrong and the rear canopy seems to have been painted over. ( the framing seems to be there though)

More pictures are probably needed.


----------



## ryoko (Jun 3, 2008)

I hear fluffy dogs took out lots of WW2 fighters 











Slightly brighter top view.

Please ignore the guns, I'm guessing they were just stuck on at random.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 3, 2008)

It looks... weird.

The fixed landing gear, armament, and marking suggest Fokker D.XXI, but the wings, fusalage and tail look a lot like a Buffalo. (not sure what to think about the cowling and prop)

It could be some kind of strange alteration and not a real a/c.


----------



## ryoko (Jun 3, 2008)

Kool kitty, Thank you for the reply, I looked both up on google to see if I could find something. The Tail and the wing look completely like the Buffalo. The rest however look like the foker. This picture:






Which to give credit to the origional site was stolen from:
http://www.zap16.com/mil fact/Fokker D XXI.htm

makes it look like a Fokker D.XXI. So.... I'm now thinking the model I bought is a combo of the 2. Interesting, wonder if that would have actually worked


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 4, 2008)

The fusalage looks Buffalo to me too.

Is that framing/trim like stuff on the wings, fusalage, and making up the canopy added on, or part of the original model. The area behind the canopy looks like it's supposed to be canopy framing (like on the Buffalo) beven though it's painted.

Is it a plastic model (that you build) or a cusom/hand made one?


Also note that the wings are mid-mounted on the fusalage. (the Fokker is low mounted)

THe prop, nose, and cowling does look like the Fokker. (at least a lot closer than to the Buffalo's)


----------



## Graeme (Jun 4, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> A lot of trouble in fact.


Hi Emilio,
You're still doing very well. Congrats! If you ever feel merciful, drop us a few clues on this thread...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/aviaquiz-13314-2.html#post360400 



kool kitty89 said:


> look like the Fokker.


Hi Chris,
If it was a poll, I'd go for the Fokker XXI. 

And a new one to have a look at...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 4, 2008)

Hi Graeme,
I will visit regularlly the quiz thread and I will try to share with all of you interested in such challenging Quiz as it is.
In the other hand the amphibious one is a S.N.C.A.N. Nord 1402 "Noroit"
Please, excuse my english!!


----------



## Graeme (Jun 4, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> I will visit regularlly the quiz thread and I will try to share with all of you



Thanks Emilio! Glad to have you on board!



Emilio Lafuente said:


> In the other hand the amphibious one is a S.N.C.A.N. Nord 1402 "Noroit"
> Please, excuse my english!!



Correct. Your English is fine!



Emilio Lafuente said:


> The little, V tailed airplane, is a Bee Aviation Queen Bee.



Correct again.

One more...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 4, 2008)

My first thought was F-4 Phantom, but looking closer I don't think so. (apears to be tailless)


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 4, 2008)

I would say an F-111 Aardvark flying inverted????


----------



## runningdog (Jun 4, 2008)

Graeme said:


> And a new one to have a look at...



Looks more like a Beriev B12 to me, but I'm open to correction..........


----------



## Waynos (Jun 4, 2008)

No, definitely Nord Noirot and F-111, as emilio said.


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 4, 2008)

Anyone knows this aircraft?


----------



## runningdog (Jun 4, 2008)

runningdog said:


> Looks more like a Beriev B12 to me, but I'm open to correction..........


Bugger, thought I'd start on a high note, but I was wrong. It is a Noroit.......


----------



## ryoko (Jun 4, 2008)

Kool Kitty, it is a custom metal model. I'm going to stick with it being a hybrid probably with the intent of being the fokker. Thanks again to all who helped identify.

Patoruzu, are those wings variable sweep or fixed. I'm leaning to it being a Flogger but I'm not sure.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 4, 2008)

Is that a paper model?


----------



## Grampa (Jun 5, 2008)

Hindustan HF-24 Marut?

Hindustan Fighter: HF-24 Marut [Part 1]


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 5, 2008)

Almost right GRAMPA it was the father of the Marut as it was in Cordoba , Argentina as IA 43 Pulqui III designed, just before Kurt Tank went to India.
So this was the first model of the later MARUT


----------



## Graeme (Jun 6, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> I would say an F-111 Aardvark flying inverted????



There's no fooling anyone these days.

Photographed in 1974 by Bruce Postle at an airshow at Point Cook, Victoria, with a 300mm lens. Flying inverted at 100ft the pilot hit the afterburners and climbed.

The bit I don't understand is...

._.."the droplet effect against the milky white sky (is) caused by the afterburners." _ 

Easy one...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 6, 2008)

Vought TBU/TBY "Sea Wolf" torpedo bomber.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 6, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Vought TBU/TBY "Sea Wolf" torpedo bomber.



Too easy Chris?

Alrighty then. Another 'V' tail, designed by a husband and wife team...


----------



## runningdog (Jun 7, 2008)

Can't remember the name, but if anyone's got access to 'Janes', say 64-65, I've seen this photo there. Mine got sold on e'Bay a while ago. Damn fool move.........


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 9, 2008)

Looks somewhat like on of these Stelio Frati designs from an earlier post... Italian?

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Jun 9, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Looks somewhat like on of these Stelio Frati designs from an earlier post... Italian?
> 
> Krabat



Hi Krabat!

Long time no 'read', what's been happening?

No, its American, mid-late fifties...



> _
> *Harold Dale* was a project engineer with North American working on the F-100, so his ideal plane had to be designed in the spare time. He had assistance from his wife Eleanor who also had an engineering degree, handling much of the mathematics, administration, etc._


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 9, 2008)

> Long time no 'read', what's been happening?



Everything and nothing. More work, less money and now I got all my things moved to Munich. I'm vstill visiting the forum but I have not written anything, because in most cases I had no idea and less time to research. But the thread is going very well without me, I have to admit  

Krabat


----------



## Waynos (Jun 9, 2008)

At last, I have it. Its the Carma Weejet VT-1, HURRAH!


----------



## wingnuts (Jun 9, 2008)

The RAAF F111s regularly do the "dump burn" at airshows where fuel is jettisoned into the jet eflux from the afterburners where it ignites, maybe the photo was taken before the fuel ignited.




Graeme said:


> There's no fooling anyone these days.
> 
> Photographed in 1974 by Bruce Postle at an airshow at Point Cook, Victoria, with a 300mm lens. Flying inverted at 100ft the pilot hit the afterburners and climbed.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kruska (Jun 9, 2008)

Look at those crazy Aussies..nice..nice..nice keep it coming, great pictures.

Regards
Kruska


----------



## wingnuts (Jun 9, 2008)

Try this Kruska:



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


LiveLeak.com - F1-11 Jets Riverfire "Dump Burn"

There are other videos on Youtube but i can't access them here at wor... ! ...um.... my place of employment


----------



## wingnuts (Jun 9, 2008)

Ooops!... double posted :O


----------



## Graeme (Jun 10, 2008)

wingnuts said:


> maybe the photo was taken before the fuel ignited.



Makes sense. I wonder how the Australian public will view this practise in light of 
the petroleum situation... 



Waynos said:


> At last, I have it. Its the Carma Weejet VT-1, HURRAH!



Nicely done Waynos!

Dale Air-Engineering WEEJET 800


New one...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi again from Spain. Not so sunny as it used to be since we have a very humid spring this year.
The strange flying machine is a Vanguard Omniplane!!!


----------



## wingnuts (Jun 10, 2008)

How about this strange..... um... device


----------



## Graeme (Jun 11, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> The strange flying machine is a Vanguard Omniplane!!!



Right again, Emilio.



wingnuts said:


> How about this strange..... um... device



Hmmm..did this machine get off the ground WN? It it classified as a Helicopter? And finally, could it be French?


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 11, 2008)

This must be the famous "Nightmare", dreamed up by a Dexter Dopefish, a former civil servant during years and years of strenuous office sleep. Built by his brother in law and his rednecked pals after too much of self-inflicted brain cauterizing through home-brewed paint-thinner/beverage. 

Krabat


----------



## Waynos (Jun 11, 2008)

I can't see this one, just a red X, can anyone help?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 11, 2008)

Here:





Did that help?


----------



## wingnuts (Jun 11, 2008)

Looks like the contraption I posted even has Graeme stumped! 

I was going to post a few clues but what the hell....  

It is the Curtiss-Bleeker attempt at building a helicopter... at the Curtiss airport, Vally Stream, Long Island NY that eventually became famous as Grumman's facility.

...not a bad attempt given that no one was sure what a successful helicopter was supposed to look like....but a bit of a dead end only ever managed a few hops  

Curtiss-Bleecker helicopter - development history, photos, technical data

Helicopters are weird anyway.... I prefer airplanes where the wings and fuselage all travel at the same speed


----------



## Graeme (Jun 11, 2008)

wingnuts said:


> I was going to post a few clues but what the hell....



You gave in too quick mate! I was getting there....slowly...


----------



## Waynos (Jun 12, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm afraid it didn't, must be my pc. I see its too late now anyway, not that I have ever heard of it


----------



## Waynos (Jun 12, 2008)

here's a quickie as I haven't put anything up for a while, I love this one.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 12, 2008)

Waynos said:


> here's a quickie as I haven't put anything up for a while, I love this one.



Hi Wayne!

Without a doubt the very 'potential' Hawker P.1121 Hurricane.

The best unwanted fighters of all time, page 1

What might of been, eh Wayne?






Here's another project that was advanced at the time but extinguished quickly due to funding. 

It didn't reach an advanced mock-up stage as your Hurricane...





... so this is what it would have looked like...


----------



## runningdog (Jun 12, 2008)

English Electric? Only a guess........


----------



## Graeme (Jun 12, 2008)

runningdog said:


> English Electric? Only a guess........



Good guess 'runningdog', but not English Electric, not even British.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 13, 2008)

Here's another project that was advanced at the time but extinguished quickly due to funding. 

What about nationality? Canadian, Australian, perhaps??


----------



## Graeme (Jun 13, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> What about nationality? Canadian, Australian, perhaps??



Australian, Emilio. The land of "Football, Meat pies, Kangaroos and Holden cars"...

...and failed aircraft projects.


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 13, 2008)

Its Australian froms Fishersman Bend CAC I have seen this in an Aircraft Enthusiast - very pretty machine, can´t hide her british style


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 13, 2008)

I´m not sure, but could it be a Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation CA-23 ??


----------



## Kruska (Jun 13, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> I´m not sure, but could it be a Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation CA-23 ??



Hello Emilio,

 I had the same idea: Google - Commonwealth Aircraft = CA-23

Regards
Kruska


----------



## Kruska (Jun 13, 2008)

Hello mates,

I do not intend to push myself in front of Emilio, so just one question is this Project = Suchoi "Flying tank" a modelers joke or did this exist as a real project?






Regards
Kruska


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 13, 2008)

Yes CA 23


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 13, 2008)

Kruska thats def. a russian joke, isn´t it? or they´re reassuming the flying submarine?


----------



## Waynos (Jun 13, 2008)

Nice model. if bizarre.

Here's another piccy. How hard do we want them as I can't help feeling that mine are all really easy?


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 13, 2008)

Very Easy an amiot 143 - tipical french monster-bomber of the 30´s and perhaps the less ugly of they all-


----------



## Graeme (Jun 14, 2008)

Gentlemen, nice job on the CA-23.



Waynos said:


> How hard do we want them as I can't help feeling that mine are all really easy?



I don't think it matters Wayne. Toss whatever you find of interest in. At the moment NOTHING seems to be hard for the current players... 

I'll 'toss' *two* in for tonight...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 14, 2008)

Graeme, you never stop surprising me with so amazing and challenging airplanes to identify. I can assure you it´s first time I´ve seen these two, and I´m afraid I´ll pass all weekend with these two in mind in spite of family, friends, cycling, even Spanish team playing football against Sweden in european championship. Thanks again, Graeme!!!


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 14, 2008)

the wings and landing gear remembers me an texan but the tail is more vultee BT13 type........... Nice challenge GRAEME


----------



## Graeme (Jun 14, 2008)

Patoruzu said:


> vultee BT13



Too good Patoruzu! I tried to find a photo obscuring the tail. Actually I thought the cowling and undercarriage would also give it a away.

It's a BT-13A owned by famed aviation author Bill Larkins. It was "reverted" to a skywriter role in 1964 by squaring off and blunting the wingtips, shrouding the exhaust and 'reducing' the cockpit. It's from an old issue of Airpower showing some odd renovations made to postwar Valiants.

Crop duster version...





The amphibian with the rear pylon mounted engines, is Australian. I'm not sure if it's covered on the Internet.


----------



## Waynos (Jun 15, 2008)

Yours are even too obscure for me graeme! Keep em coming though, maybe I'll get one eventually. 

Anyone want to have a go at this?


----------



## Graeme (Jun 15, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Anyone want to have a go at this?



You bet!

The Douglas C-132...?

c133bdevelopment


----------



## Waynos (Jun 15, 2008)

Wow, no time at all. excellent.


----------



## Waynos (Jun 15, 2008)

This one is a bit different, its a sort of WW2 UCAV pictured with its bomb, but what is it?







Also, I know this is outside the scope of the thread, but isn't this strangely cute?


----------



## Graeme (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Wayne!

I enjoy your mock-up images. Where do they all come from?

Found this the other day...

That's General Eisenhower hunkered down in an aircraft, just before a flight. The date is June 4 1944. The flight took him on a "fast" tour of the Normandy beaches.

What's the aircraft?





(Something I didn't know was that Eisenhower and Patton were both licensed private pilots).

Edit: Whoops, just saw your post above-will need to look into that one further!


----------



## wingnuts (Jun 15, 2008)

That CA23 model and others, including the CA15 model, was still in existence in the late 90s when the CAC buildings, then owned by Hawker de Havilland were closed down. Most of the historical artifacts and records were donated to the Moorabbin Air Museum.

Australian National Aviation Museum - Moorabbin Air Museum


----------



## Graeme (Jun 15, 2008)

Waynos said:


> but what is it?



Can't find any photos on the internet, but how about the *Miles Hoop-la*...?

[1.0] The Aerial Torpedo

_"Miles Aircraft of the UK proposed an aerial torpedo they called the "Hoop-la", and constructed a mockup. The Hoop-la was a neat little high-wing aircraft built around a 450 kilogram (1,000 pound) bomb, featuring a Gipsy Major air-cooled four-cylinder inline engine, a wingspan of 4.3 meters (14 feet), and an estimated speed of over 480 KPH (300 MPH)."_

(Thanks for the CA-23 update, Wingnut)


----------



## Waynos (Jun 15, 2008)

Yes thats it, the Miles hoop la, the picture is the only one I've ever seen and it is from a postwar issue of Flight magazine which I inherited in a binder, my pictures are all from random sources, but 90% are scans from books or magazines, my 'office' looks like a paper warehouse 

Working on the Ike picture, I've an inkling its an observation type likr a Stinson or a Taylorcraft but I'm not sure


----------



## GaryMcL (Jun 16, 2008)

With the metal fuselage, side-hinged canopy and "fast" clue I'd go for a modified P-51B (or A-36).


----------



## Graeme (Jun 16, 2008)

GaryMcL said:


> With the metal fuselage, side-hinged canopy and "fast" clue I'd go for a modified P-51B (or A-36).



Nicely done Gary! Ike is sitting in a modified P-51B. The accommodation was made available by removing the 85 gallon fuselage tank from behind the pilot. The article mentions that General Marshall tore strips off him for making the flight.

I expect a quick answer Wayne...


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 16, 2008)

The Hawker P.1052. Would have been the right plane for Korea.

Krabat


----------



## Waynos (Jun 16, 2008)

It would have been quick, if I had been looking. One of my all time faves, but then it is a Hawker.
I'm just reloading my images onto a brand new pp which is driving me nuts (Vista, HA!!) and I had forgotten all about a load of them shoved onto a 10 year old hard drive and then forgotten, these might be interesting to look at, first one;


----------



## magnocain (Jun 16, 2008)

In Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Indiana it attacked by 2 German fighters.








What are they? They look like early bf109's, but not really. Are they just made-up generic fighters? I also posted this in the Movie Aircraft thread.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 16, 2008)

That canopy design doesn't look like a fighter at all (maybe some lightweight fighter based on a trainer a/c), and the engine apears to be an air cooled inverted inline (Argus or Hirth) possibly a real a/c (or close to one) but not a fighter.

That canopy design isn't familiar though. 

Here's a good reasourse LuftArchiv.de - Das Archiv der Deutschen Luftwaffe

I'll check a bit. (I beieve several bogus planes were used on the other Indiana Jones movies as well, so it wouldn't be surprising, but most of those resembled real a/c as well iirc)

Somewhat reminisant of the Ar 96 Arado Ar 96


----------



## Waynos (Jun 16, 2008)

I had an inkling that it was a Swiss trainer, then I found it, the Pilatus P-2, it only seems to have been altered by having fake 'DB601' type exhaust stubs stuck on the cowling.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 16, 2008)

I think I found it, not a German a/c at all, though some used German engines (Argus As 410) and some design components from German a/c. (Bf 109's landing gear)

Pilatus P-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 16, 2008)

Oh, you got it already Waynos... 

Photos: Pilatus P2 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net





Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989) - mistakes, nitpicks, trivia, locations


----------



## Graeme (Jun 16, 2008)

Waynos said:


> first one;



Home for lunch, gotta be quick, no googling...the Bede 10 HOMEBUILT Supersonic jet that crashed and no more was heard?


----------



## magnocain (Jun 17, 2008)

Ok, thanks.


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 17, 2008)

[/QUOTE]

May be a variation of The F11/37 spec??

The British Specification F11/37 was for a twin engine, 2 seat fighter capable of day night operations, in a fighter or ground support roll.. Armed by 4 20mm canons housed in a power operated turret. The specification called for an aircraft capable of 370 mph at 15,000 ft, with a service ceiling of 35,000 ft with an endurance of 2.5 hours. The Aircraft was to be armed by 4 20 mm canons with 240 rounds of ammunition a single 250 lb bomb carried internally.
Boulton Paul P92 was designed to meet this specification it was this company that the contract was awarded to. Serials L9629 L9632 being allocated to the two prototypes. Heston Aircraft built a half scale model of the P92, called the P92.2. The serial V3142 was allocated to the P92.2, which was flown during May 1941. With the cancellation of the P92 project the P92.2 was stored for some time before eventual scraping.
At the time of Munich Bristol proposed using Hercules engines on a new aircraft using mainly Beaufort components, this design was eventually called the Beaufighter.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 17, 2008)

Maybe a Bristol design? The blunt nose reminds me a little of their 153A.





In the meantime, here's a rear view of a WWII bomber to identify...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 17, 2008)

Mosquito?


----------



## Graeme (Jun 17, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Mosquito?



Nope. It's not British Chris.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 17, 2008)

Looks like a Ju 88 without gun mounts.


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 18, 2008)

It's got a turret on the back an two radials. Thick wing with not much fuselage above an below that. A russian SB refitted with a turret?

Krabat


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 18, 2008)

I thought the framed glazing was of the (rather large) canopy. And if it's German those aren't necessarily radials, the Jumo 211 and 213 looking like radials (save the exhaust ports) due to the use of an annular radiator and radial-type cowling. (with a couple exceptions, like the Ju 87, with a chin radiator Jumo 211)


And a bit late, but Graeme wasn't the Bristol 153 a single-engined fighter design?


----------



## Graeme (Jun 18, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> And a bit late, but Graeme wasn't the Bristol 153 a single-engined fighter design?



Hi Chris.

The Bristol 151 started off as a mid-wing design. The 153 became a low wing and the 153*A * was a twin-engined design powered by Aquila engines.






I guess you're tired of looking at the rear?  So here's the rear *and* the front...


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 18, 2008)

Japanese Kyushu q1w1 (possiblymodel1) Allied code name Lorna


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 18, 2008)

Returning to the turreted Bristol the the tail resembles the Bristol F9/37


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 18, 2008)

The TOKAI , of course. Nice idea, Grame. Almost nobody knows the rear end of an aircraft.

Krabat


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 18, 2008)

Whats that??


----------



## Waynos (Jun 18, 2008)

Hmm, looks like a twin engined P-40 from the back, so is it a Curtiss?


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 18, 2008)

So it was very easy - its the mockup of a twin engined P40 (only photograf I know) never built. Well Done Waynos


----------



## Kruska (Jun 18, 2008)

Patoruzu said:


> So it was very easy - its the mockup of a twin engined P40 (only photograf I know) never built. Well Done Waynos



Hello mates,

Since I follow up on this thread already for a long time (still waiting to get lucky  ) I do know that you guys are very, very knowledgeable.

The only Curtiss designation that I know of as P-40 is the P-40 Warhawk, kittyhawk, Tomahawk, so I find it very strange that a totally different aircraft from the same company uses the same designation P-40.

Regards
Kruska


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 18, 2008)

See: Curtiss P-40C twin-engine Curtiss L-Z



> One pulled from ex-service condemned units and modified into a twin mock-up for preliminary evaluation; engines were not installed [41-13456].


----------



## Kruska (Jun 18, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> See: Curtiss P-40C twin-engine Curtiss L-Z




Thanks for the link.

Regards
Kruska


----------



## Graeme (Jun 18, 2008)

Well done with 'Lorna'.

Next one. Designed as a "trainer-fighter", but by the time WWII arrived, it was considered a pilots "toy"...


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## Patoruzu (Jun 19, 2008)

It looks like an Irbitis project of VEF- but I guess thats must be older


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## Waynos (Jun 19, 2008)

Wow, that was a complete guess. I must be cleverer than I thought 

I haven't forgotten the turret fighter I posted, I've just lost the book its from and can't remember the exact identity, but it is a Bristol.


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## Grampa (Jun 19, 2008)

Sparrmannjagaren


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## Graeme (Jun 20, 2008)

Grampa said:


> Sparrmannjagaren



Correct. Well done! Did it help being Swedish Grampa?  

According to the article I got the front view drawing from, it mentions that Sparmann designed a _"bent-wing fighter that looked like the forerunner of the F4U Corsair"_, somewhere around 1936. Do you have any further information on this design Grampa?

Next..a biplane fighter...


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## kool kitty89 (Jun 20, 2008)

Looks like a Gladiator, but there's no wing guns, and the canopy seems a bit large. (the 3-blade prop is also an interesting note, used on the Mk.II, but it looks different) The canopy and prop are wrong for the Gauntlet...
And the tailplane's too high.


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## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 20, 2008)

The biplane fighter looks to me like a Koolhoven FK.52, but I´m not sure...


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## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 20, 2008)

Take a look in this link:
KOOLHOVEN FK.52


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## Patoruzu (Jun 20, 2008)

It is a FK52 - Well done Emilio

Anyone know that? - (GRAEME style)


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## Grampa (Jun 20, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Correct. Well done! Did it help being Swedish Grampa?
> 
> According to the article I got the front view drawing from, it mentions that Sparmann designed a _"bent-wing fighter that looked like the forerunner of the F4U Corsair"_, somewhere around 1936. Do you have any further information on this design Grampa?
> 
> ...


----------



## white210 (Jun 20, 2008)

I am trying to find the name of an experimental failed stol prototype from ww2 which had oversized props mounted at the end of each wing. Props rotated so that airflow was forced under wings by the props. Help please.


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## white210 (Jun 20, 2008)

nevermind found it. was the Vought V-173


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## Graeme (Jun 21, 2008)

Graeme said:


> According to the article I got the front view drawing from, it mentions that Sparmann designed a _"bent-wing fighter that looked like the forerunner of the F4U Corsair"_, somewhere around 1936. Do you have any further information on this design Grampa?



Sorry Grampa, I didn't word that very well. I'm after information, if you have it, on a Sparmann project, that never left the drawing board, but it would have looked similar to a F4U Corsair. There is no name mentioned in the article for this project.


Hi Patoruzu. I found a different artist, but suspect it's a *Roussel 30*...


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## Waynos (Jun 21, 2008)

Late update guys, I found the book 

Patoruzu was right, it was the Bristol F.11/37 'small', but no type number is recorded, as the 156 was the Beaufighter and the 155 was the rival to the Albemarle, maybe it was the 154? As the name suggests they also submitted a slightly larger version of the same design to meet the spec.


----------



## Waynos (Jun 21, 2008)

Here's a double header of two planes designed around similar concepts several decades apart;


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## Captain Dunsel (Jun 21, 2008)

Bottom is the Edgely Optica.

The top one looks suspiciously like what an FW198 was supposed to look like.

CD


----------



## Graeme (Jun 21, 2008)

Like I said before Wayne, you're going to have to shelve the 'Janes 38'   

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/aircraft-identification-v-1737-72.html


paaln said:


> Abrams Model P-1 Explorer


----------



## runningdog (Jun 21, 2008)

Used to see the Optica regularly, it looked right somehow, odd, but right. The Hampshire Police crashed the one they trying out just up the road from me. The plane got the blame, but, if I remember rightly the CAA decided it was being flown outside it's envelope.


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## Graeme (Jun 21, 2008)

runningdog said:


> Used to see the Optica regularly, it looked right somehow, odd, but right. The Hampshire Police crashed the one they trying out just up the road from me. The plane got the blame, but, if I remember rightly the CAA decided it was being flown outside it's envelope.



Interesting. I remember reading that it had a very troubled financial/business life, including at one point, arson.


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## Waynos (Jun 21, 2008)

I thought I might try to sneak one in Graeme  , well done guys. The Optica came out when I was at school and I was fascinated by it.


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## Waynos (Jun 21, 2008)

This ones a nice picture,


----------



## runningdog (Jun 21, 2008)

Waynos said:


> The Optica came out when I was at school and I was fascinated by it.


I think everybody was. It was so quiet, as a surviellence plane it would have been superb.
You lads on this site are brilliant, way above my level. I've read right through the thread, enjoyed it immensly. In my own defence I operate from memory only..........


----------



## Graeme (Jun 22, 2008)

Waynos said:


> This ones a nice picture,



...of the Jumo-powered Henschel Hs 124V1. Scanned or from the internet Wayne?

New one...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 22, 2008)

XP-80? (Halford -Goblin- powered, smaller, first Shooting star prototype) AKA the "Green Hornet"


----------



## Waynos (Jun 22, 2008)

Yes thats it Graeme, I wondered if the engines and nose shape might make someone think twice. Taken from the net.

I concur with kk89 on the XP-80, but that is a sneaky edit


----------



## Waynos (Jun 22, 2008)




----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 22, 2008)

Sorry Graeme but Yesterday was my first daughter birthday, so I was out of the net but Youre rigth it was an Roussel 30.
So I think Youre rigth too with the hs124 and Waynos and Arson (I guess) with the XP80


----------



## Graeme (Jun 22, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> XP-80? (Halford -Goblin- powered, smaller, first Shooting star prototype) AKA the "Green Hornet"





Waynos said:


> I concur with kk89 on the XP-80





Patoruzu said:


> XP80



You guys should know me better than that!

*No, it's not the XP-80.
It's not a product from Lockheed.*


Wayne that's an interesting photo. I think it's the high altitude version of the Myasishchev Bison, the Project 28 (2M), but I didn't know it was built(?) or reached the mock-up stage... 
_
"Project 28 -- To overcome air defenses, a high-altitude version of the M-4 (project 28) was studied but not developed prior to the in 1960 to shut down the Myasishchev OKB."_

M-4 / Mya-4 / 2M, Myasishchev 'Bison' - Russian and Soviet Nuclear Forces


----------



## Waynos (Jun 22, 2008)

Yes, thats the one Graeme. Its the full scale mock up of the Myasischev M-28-2.


If yours is not the P-80 in some form I'm currently at a loss having already dismissed the XP-54 and Canberra. Clue?


----------



## Waynos (Jun 22, 2008)

Could it be the Martin XB-51? You haven't left us much to go on.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 22, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Could it be the Martin XB-51? You haven't left us much to go on.



I never doubted you for a second Wayne! Perseverance pays off.  







Waynos said:


> Its the full scale mock up of the MyasischevM-28-2.



From your collection Wayne? I've never seen it before. Thanks for posting that one. I've always been fascinated by Soviet projects.

Moving along. Next one...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 23, 2008)

Hi all,
I´ve been out all weekend and I can see I´ve missed some good aviation debate... The last little one is a Seabird SB7L-360 Seeker.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 23, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> The last little one is a Seabird SB7L-360 Seeker.



Yep. In some ways Australia's version of the Optica.

UTILITY-AIRCRAFT production/investment/joint venture seabird seeker SB7L-360


----------



## Waynos (Jun 23, 2008)

If you like Russian projects, I'll see what I can do Graeme. Yes, the M-28 is from my own library. I'll stick to the guideline about nothing less than at least a mock up being posted, starting here;


----------



## Graeme (Jun 23, 2008)

Not entirely sure Wayne, but I think this is what a lot of "authorities" in the late 50's and early 60's called Faceplate...





But is in fact the precursor to the MiG 21, the Ye-2...?


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 23, 2008)

I really love soviets planes too, but sometimes it´s difficult distinguishig such subtle details amongst so many I and Ye prototypes, but I would say this is a Mikoyan Gurevich I-75 prototype.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 23, 2008)

Now I´m reconsidering my answer and I would say the MiG I-7U; the I-75 being a MiG I-7U with a broader nose.


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 23, 2008)

You re right Emilio its an I-7U
, -7


----------



## Waynos (Jun 23, 2008)

Yes, thats it, the I-7U. Excellent spot. I won't just keep posting Russian ones but I still have loads to come.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 23, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Yes, thats it, the I-7U. Excellent spot. I won't just keep posting Russian ones but I still have loads to come.



I guess I need to update my 'Observers 1960'.  

The Northrop N-102 'Fang'.





Another Ruskie...


----------



## Waynos (Jun 23, 2008)

That would be the Yak 28-64.

How many Observers do you have Graeme? Worth me using as a source? I've got 1943 to 92 plus a couple of post 2000 German ones (WHY do we not still do this book in English? grrr) 

BTW, the I-7U is not the same one as the 'Faceplate', it is similar, but different, your 1960 OBA is fine.


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 24, 2008)

Just a little challenge


----------



## Waynos (Jun 24, 2008)

Patoruzu, that ones being doing my head in all day. Its one of those that I know that I've seen it before, but can remember nothing about it, very infuriating. So far I've gone through the Janes from 1941, 45 and 49 with no luck. Any clues?


----------



## Graeme (Jun 24, 2008)

Waynos said:


> How many Observers do you have Graeme? Worth me using as a source?



Not many Wayne. Mostly from the 60's, 70's and 80's. Sure, toss any sources into the ring. And good work on the Yak! 



Patoruzu said:


> Just a little challenge



Hi Patoruzu.

Looks like the nose belongs to the *Stearman X-100*

In the meantime...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jun 25, 2008)

Curtiss XP-46


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 25, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Looks like the nose belongs to the *Stearman X-100*
> 
> Just right a Stearman A21


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 25, 2008)

And we have a new candidate for the "ugliest aircraft poll".  Almost beats these 1930's french bomber-fighter-recon-"multiplace de combat".

Krabat


----------



## Wildcat (Jun 25, 2008)

I like it!!


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 25, 2008)

Me too. The greenhouse looks like the german WW2 bombers. How about a new "biggest greenhouse thread"?  

Krabat


----------



## Waynos (Jun 25, 2008)

I'll try Graemes trick, sorry if this is too easy, I'll get better


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jun 26, 2008)

Not so easy to me, Waynos
But finally I´ve found it: Bristol 146
Bristol 146 - fighter
http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/england/bristol_146.gif


----------



## Graeme (Jun 26, 2008)

Maybe the worlds largest canard?...


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 26, 2008)

Australian? Never seen this thing.

Krabat


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 26, 2008)

NOT TO EASY

Thtas as Emilio says a Bristol Type 146

G3283. This was to be an eight gun fighter to specification F.5/34 T a price of £11, 500 (THE PRICE OF A FAMILY CAR IN 2004). It embodied many of the features of the crashed T133. The engine chosen was the fully supercharged Perseus sleeve-valve radial of 835 hp. The prototype however, was fitted with a Mercury IX. Retractable undercarriage and four Browning per wing firing outboard of the propellor. 

However, the RR Merlin engined Hurricanes and Spitfires became priorities and although it performed well was also not proceeded with. In 1938, following trials, it returned to Filton for the RAF display only to collide with part of the set piece and was forthwith scrapped.

The Transport Archive- Three Centuries of Transport


----------



## Graeme (Jun 27, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Australian? Never seen this thing.



Hi Krabat.

It was built in the USA by a Rumanian immigrant who was a former lieutenant in the Rumanian Air Force. Flew in 1929. The canard or "tandem wing" is around 30ft in span...


----------



## Waynos (Jun 29, 2008)

Never seen THAT before, bloody hell! 

Here's another cropped image to have a bash at;


----------



## Grampa (Jun 29, 2008)

Well its the Blackburn Firebrand. 

Blackburn Firebrand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But the thing here thats nagging me is what exackly type of Blackburn it is. Its definitivt not the III version because that one is build whit an bubble canopy, and the one at pichture dosent have it, so ether is the I version or the II.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 29, 2008)

Grampa said:


> so ether is the I version or the II.



The Mk I...





The odd "tandem" from the previous page was the Fernic T-9...

Google Image Result for http://aerofiles.com/fernic-t9.jpg

Next one...


----------



## Waynos (Jun 30, 2008)

Would it be the Boeing XF8B? I think I can just make out a trace of an air scoop below the cowling and if I can then everything else fits.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 1, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Would it be the Boeing XF8B?



Yes it would Wayne. Nice job!


----------



## Krabat42 (Jul 1, 2008)

I was sooo close. A nice plane though it should have a few Hispanos instead of the .50's.

Krabat


----------



## AVRoe (Jul 1, 2008)

What about this one Easy ?
View attachment 65527


----------



## Patoruzu (Jul 1, 2008)

Gloster Meteor F I "Trent"
In March 7th 1945 a Gloster Meteor F I (EE227) was sent to the Rolls-Royce Plant at Hucknall for installation of two R.B.50 "Trent" turboprop engines. EE227 was selected because it was already fitted with an enlarged wing spar so the new engines could be fitted with out to many problems. The RB-50 "Trent" engine was a Rolls-Royce Derwent turbojet engine fitted with a forward drive shaft, a reduction gearbox and a Rotol five-bladed propeller of a diameter of 7' 11''.

Six month later on the 20/10/1945 at the airfield at Church Broughton the Gloster "Trent" took to the air for the first time with Eric Greenwood at the controls, making the first flight of a turboprop powered aircraft in the world. A number of problems were found with the prop wash and directional instability,the "Trent was returned to Hucknall were these were fixed and the aircraft was flying again by March 1946, later smaller Rotol propellers were fitted. 

In April 1948 the "Trent" Meteor was transferred to the Navy for testing, as they were interested in the use of turboprop aircraft for deck-operations. On the 22/9/1948 the aircraft was returned to Rolls-Royce, were it was restored to it's original condition, then being returned to RAF Farborough were it was scrapped in June 1949.


----------



## Patoruzu (Jul 1, 2008)

another pic


----------



## Graeme (Jul 1, 2008)

New one...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jul 2, 2008)

Kellet XR-8.
Kellett XR-8 helicopter - development history, photos, technical data


----------



## Graeme (Jul 2, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Kellet XR-8.



Very good Emilio! Now, what do you make of this one then?...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jul 2, 2008)

I can´t figure out what´s actually is it. A racer, a mock-up, a drone, a taxiing drone?? Any hint, please...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jul 2, 2008)

Would it be some modified Curtiss pursuit, or attack monoplane???


----------



## Graeme (Jul 2, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> I can´t figure out what´s actually is it. A racer, a mock-up, a drone, a taxiing drone?? Any hint, please...



Hi Emilio.

It's a test bed. For the Allison V-1710.

It's from a 1978 article on the history of the Bell P-39 Airacobra. The men in the photo are Bell employees, but the aircraft is a Consolidated product. It was eventually built and flown, but according to the article, no full-length photos of the completed aircraft are "known to exist".

Nevertheless, the name of this aircraft exists in the history books.

It's the Consolidated* ..-...
*


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jul 2, 2008)

I suppose the Consolidated XA-11A 
Thank you very much Graeme.


----------



## Patoruzu (Jul 2, 2008)

May be a Conso XA11- the canopy is the same - a variation of the P30


----------



## Patoruzu (Jul 2, 2008)

4 minutes quikier - Well Done Emilio


----------



## Patoruzu (Jul 2, 2008)

and this.........


----------



## Waynos (Jul 2, 2008)

Isn't that the Cancargo Loadmaster?


----------



## Patoruzu (Jul 2, 2008)

Yes waynos well done its a Burnelli design the CC&F Loadmaster

Sorry the last pic is an early burnelli aircraft


----------



## Waynos (Jul 2, 2008)

Here's a couple from me;


----------



## Graeme (Jul 2, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Here's a couple from me;



Hi Wayne.

Top...Curtiss XP-62.
Bottom...Curtiss YP-60E.

Moving along...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jul 3, 2008)

YP-59A, modified with enclosed secondary cocpit in nose? (like Chino PoF's YP-59A formerly had, if not actualy the same plane; that plane has now been restored to the original configuration and is supposed to be ready to fly this fall)


----------



## Graeme (Jul 3, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> YP-59A, modified with enclosed secondary cocpit in nose?



Hi Chris! I forgot about your P-59 knowledge when I posted that one! Yep, the YP-59A.

Next...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jul 4, 2008)

I would need some help to try to find this one. Is any photo-reconnaissance aircraft of the IIWW, or some post IIWWW era airplane?


----------



## Graeme (Jul 4, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> I would need some help to try to find this one. Is any photo-reconnaissance aircraft of the IIWW, or some post IIWWW era airplane?



A view with the nose cannon should help you identify it...


----------



## Patoruzu (Jul 5, 2008)

Thats a Bech XA38 Grizzly


----------



## Grampa (Jul 6, 2008)

Try this one


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jul 6, 2008)

Looks like a Corsair.


----------



## Grampa (Jul 6, 2008)

here a picture of an Corsair


----------



## Waynos (Jul 6, 2008)

Douglas A-1 Skyraider?, naah, course not, not with that undercarriage trouser. SAAB B-17 then?


----------



## Grampa (Jul 6, 2008)

Well done Waynos  

Its the SAAB B17 and there might be no other plane that has those undercarriage trouser.


----------



## Waynos (Jul 6, 2008)

Here's one I've been wanting to post for a while;


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jul 6, 2008)

E1/44

Gloster E.1/44 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With the original tail. (the later high mounted tail was used on the Meteor F-8)


----------



## Matt308 (Jul 6, 2008)

Small radial. Extended exhaust. At least a dual engine, perhaps three. Italian?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jul 6, 2008)

Um, Waynos already solved that one... (and it was a single engine) B 17 - SAAB 17


----------



## Waynos (Jul 7, 2008)

nice one kk89, and I wondered if I made it too hard! lol


----------



## Matt308 (Jul 7, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Um, Waynos already solved that one... (and it was a single engine) B 17 - SAAB 17



 Sorry missed the post. Oh well, never would have guess that anyway. See this is why I usually only watch and don't participate.


----------



## 16KJV11 (Jul 7, 2008)

Smokey said:


> That's the most beautiful aircraft I've ever seen
> Bugatti should use it to advertise the launch of the Veyron
> 
> 
> ...



Where is this example located? 
It's not Pensacola, but it sure looks like the Naval Aircraft Museum at Pensacola for some reason.


----------



## Matt308 (Jul 7, 2008)

Looks highly unstable and severely handicapped by engineering reality. Inefficient cooling, a propshaft running between the pilots buttocks, flight controls to account for forward swept wings, non orthogonal prop (for supposed noise reduction, etc.

An engineering nightmare of zero utility.

But she sure is beautiful.


----------



## trackend (Jul 8, 2008)

Matt308 said:


> Looks highly unstable and severely handicapped by engineering reality. a propshaft running between the pilots buttocks.
> An engineering nightmare of zero utility.
> 
> But she sure is beautiful.



The P-39 Cobra that flies near me makes some horrible sounds from its prop shaft (even tho its immaculate) It certainly would not instill confidence in me with the drive under my bum.


----------



## Krabat42 (Jul 8, 2008)

That's probably why you British didn't like the Cobra. The driveshaft is too close to the pilot's best parts. Imagine: There's nothing more macho than a guy in sunglasses and leather jacket.  

But back to the Bugatti: Did it actually fly or is it just a designer's piece? Nice but totally useless in real life.  

Krabat


----------



## Matt308 (Jul 8, 2008)

That's not a non-orthogonal 4 bladed prop... its a two dual contra-rotating props!!!


----------



## bigZ (Jul 8, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> That's probably why you British didn't like the Cobra. The driveshaft is too close to the pilot's best parts. Imagine: There's nothing more macho than a guy in sunglasses and leather jacket.
> 
> But back to the Bugatti: Did it actually fly or is it just a designer's piece? Nice but totally useless in real life.
> 
> Krabat



Unfortunately Hitlers quest for living space put a dampner on any record breaking flight with the Bugatti. Their were proposals to make a fighter version of it.

Buggatti also made a train(s?).


----------



## Matt308 (Jul 8, 2008)

Any record that thing would have been broken would have been short and only once.


----------



## bigZ (Jul 9, 2008)

Matt308 said:


> Any record that thing would have been broken would have been short and only once.



It wouldn't have been the first record plane with inefficent cooling or severally limited engine life.

I haven't the link but their is a group who intend makie a flying replica. So perhaps it will may finally take flight. A few RC models have flown succesfully.


----------



## Matt308 (Jul 9, 2008)

She has lines, I'll give her that.


----------



## Old Wizard (Jul 13, 2008)

Let's try this one....if it hasn't been posted before.


----------



## mfredmoe (Jul 14, 2008)

Hello aviation lovers.
Maybe I can do something good for you.

This is the :
Boeing XB-15 Experimental Bomber
Model number :294
First flight : 15 October 1937
Because the lone XB-15 was an experimental airplane, it did not serve as a bomber during World War II.
The military converted it into a cargo carrier, designated the XC-105.

Links :
Boeing Model 294 / XB-15 / XC-105 - bomber, transport
Boeing XB-15 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Boeing: History -- Products - Boeing XB-15 Experimental Bomber

Love from Morten  
(You remember me from the AviaQuiz ? ) :agrue:


----------



## Old Wizard (Jul 14, 2008)

Yup!


----------



## Waynos (Jul 17, 2008)

Not had any pictures for a while so here's one;


----------



## Graeme (Jul 19, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Not had any pictures for a while so here's one;



Doodling instead of googling, I'd say the *Folland Fo.108*, Wayne.


----------



## Wayne Little (Jul 19, 2008)

Nice Doodling Graeme...jeez I havent even heard of a Folland Fo.108!?


----------



## Waynos (Jul 20, 2008)

Yup, also known as the Folland Frightful, which sounds a very English sort of name  

Although on the original picture it has a Napier Sabre up front, at that time.


----------



## v2 (Jul 23, 2008)

From my collection...


----------



## Grampa (Jul 23, 2008)

By those flaps and the landing gear, I say its the Junkers Ju 86.

Junkers Ju 86 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those engines I se, is that the Junkers Jumo 205 C-4 diesel engine whit an performance of 600 hp that are build after an unusual opposed-piston, two-stroke vertical design?

Museum Collections: Mechanical Engineering
Junkers Jumo 205 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## v2 (Jul 23, 2008)

Yup!


----------



## Aggie08 (Jul 23, 2008)

I actually looked through every single page in this thread and these two haven't been pictured. I think they'll get nailed but enjoy anyways. I love the top one...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jul 23, 2008)

The ones in the background apear to be Ryan FR-1 Fireballs (aparently flying on jet engine alone with props feathered)

A pic actually featured on wikipedia: FR Fireball - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But the plane in the foreground looks a bit different. (the intake over the cowling)


----------



## Aggie08 (Jul 23, 2008)

Bingo. I love that picture. They're all feathered, but the closest engine still shows motion blur so you know the camera's exposure isn't fast enough to have made their propellers freeze in the picture. Apparently the piston engine was used primarily for take-off and landing as the jet lacked sufficient power and reliability. There have been several multiple-propulsion pics here in this thread, I think Ryan actually had another one too. The market for this type of fighter couldn't have been big, they only would have been useful for a few interim years as the jet came of age.

Bonus points for the plane in the foreground.  Too easy.

Any takers for the biplane? Hint- it has a ridiculous name.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jul 23, 2008)

PB4Y in the foreground? (I assume the photographer is in this a/c)


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jul 24, 2008)

Hello all,

The little biplane has a funny name indeed. It´s the *Christmas Bullet*


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jul 24, 2008)

Oh that horrible thing, I've raed about it, but haven't seen it before. (possibly the worst aircraft ever built)


----------



## Patoruzu (Jul 24, 2008)

hi Misters here a not very know plane.
Do You know it. Graeme must be easy for You.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jul 24, 2008)

Hola Patoruzu,

The fighter prototype is the Renard R-36.Renard R-36 - fighter


----------



## Patoruzu (Jul 24, 2008)

Excelente Emilio - me parece que debo que urgar mas para atraparlos.
Excelent - I think I must go deeper to catch You


----------



## Aggie08 (Jul 24, 2008)

Good job, Emilio. The only thing stranger than the name was the fact that they got two pilots willing to "test fly" it. They were both killed before the end of the runway.

That's a good lookin' plane, pat.


----------



## pbfoot (Jul 24, 2008)

Sorry guys going to interupt with a real time one took this from the porch today and I think they are F18's but am not sure so I came to the experts thought the T38's wer ret'd


----------



## Matt308 (Jul 24, 2008)

T-38


----------



## Graeme (Jul 25, 2008)

Easy one?...


----------



## Captain Dunsel (Jul 25, 2008)

Northrup F-15.



CD


----------



## Matt308 (Jul 25, 2008)

You mean Northrup F-5? I too debated that. Hard to tell from the pic. But the long nose and no apparent rails on the wingtips was what made be decide. But in reality it could be either.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jul 26, 2008)

No he was reffering to Graeme's pic: Northrop F-15 Reporter (a WWII recon aircraft, variant of the P-61)


----------



## Graeme (Jul 26, 2008)

Captain Dunsel said:


> Northrup F-15.





kool kitty89 said:


> No he was reffering to Graeme's pic: Northrop F-15 Reporter (a WWII recon aircraft, variant of the P-61)



Yep. the Northrop F-15 Reporter.

This one, 'The Missing Link', flown by Lt Anthony T Linkiewicz, has an interesting history. In his words...
_
"One of the more memorable photo missions that I participated in was taking pictures of the entire Bataan Death March route. The death march photos were supposed to be used by the War Crimes prosecutors in Toyko to prove that water was available for the prisoners along the route. We never heard the results of our work, but hopefully we were able to contribute."_


----------



## Matt308 (Jul 26, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> No he was reffering to Graeme's pic: Northrop F-15 Reporter (a WWII recon aircraft, variant of the P-61)



 I swear when I answered that post that Graeme's post was not there. Back to the dungeon...


----------



## Graeme (Jul 27, 2008)

Matt308 said:


> I swear when I answered that post that Graeme's post was not there. Back to the dungeon...



Matt 'you are not alone' when it comes to that phenomena  

New one...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jul 27, 2008)

My first thought is the Douglas Skystreak, but I don't think that's it...


----------



## Waynos (Jul 27, 2008)

Back from my hols now, and I reckon its the Saro SR/A.1


----------



## Captain Dunsel (Jul 27, 2008)

Once again, I'm familiar with a plane because I built an R/C model of it. My F-15 was done in USAF "Project Thunderstorm" colors, mainly because I was a USAF weather guy. Don't have any scanned-in pictures, though, as it wasn't one of my best efforts. Besides the movers destroyed it when we were transferred to Germany (Funny, that. They destroyed my 42" F-15 and severely damaged a 36" wingspan non-scale acrobat, but my wife's 2 meter glider came through totally unscathed!).

BTW, the "F" was due to that being used to designate photo-recce planes during the war. 

CD


----------



## Graeme (Jul 27, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Back from my hols now, and I reckon its the Saro SR/A.1



That's the one Wayne...welcome back.

One more. What's the twin in the foreground, in front of the Blenheim?...


----------



## Old Wizard (Jul 28, 2008)

Miles M.65 Gemini.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Jul 28, 2008)

Halford Engines? (Gipsy 6?)


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jul 28, 2008)

Hi all,
The aircraft in front of the Blenheims row seems more a *Percival Q6 *than a Miles Gemini.


----------



## Storch (Jul 28, 2008)

Hello every body!

I'm not very here this time scuse me!

Some one can tell me what this plane please??I just know that it's a mexcican plane!

thanks:


----------



## Patoruzu (Jul 28, 2008)

Right Emilio Percival Q6


----------



## Patoruzu (Jul 28, 2008)

It is a Watter MWT-1 Registration experimental XA-EX5


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jul 29, 2008)

Excellent Patorozu, I had never heard about this aircraft, and very interesting photo Storch, thank you both.


----------



## Patoruzu (Jul 29, 2008)

me neither Emilio and have found nothing else - interesting plane with a lot of american influence.
Storch have you more about it?


----------



## Storch (Jul 30, 2008)

Patoruzu said:


> me neither Emilio and have found nothing else - interesting plane with a lot of american influence.
> Storch have you more about it?








Ok so I have the solution: this is the MWT-1 "Barberan y collar" build by the TNCA with the coopération of Chance Vaught Aicraft!

It wasn't easy!


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Aug 5, 2008)

Hello everybody! After some time resting, try this easy one.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 5, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hello everybody! After some time resting, try this easy one.



What does "Triana" mean in English Emilio?






A little harder?...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Aug 5, 2008)

Douglas A-20. (A-20G?)


Yep, A-20G:
Picasa Web Albums - Russ - Wright-Patt M...


----------



## Graeme (Aug 5, 2008)

Graeme said:


> A little harder?...



Obviously not! Nicely found Chris...



kool kitty89 said:


> Douglas A-20. (A-20G?)







The Lope: July 2006


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Aug 6, 2008)

Hello Graeme, 
The *Triana* is named after a very popular district of Seville where the Hispano Aviación plant was located.
Now try this not so easy one...


----------



## Jan7 (Aug 6, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hello Graeme,
> The *Triana* is named after a very popular district of Seville where the Hispano Aviación plant was located.
> Now try this not so easy one...



A few off-toppic: Triana, Sevilla - Google Maps



Jan.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 7, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Now try this not so easy one...



No luck for me Emilio! Some Spanish project to replace the HA-200? Early sixties?



Emilio Lafuente said:


> The *Triana* is named after a very popular district of Seville where the Hispano Aviación plant was located.



Thanks for that.
And these, SAETA, AZOR, HALCON, and ALCOTAN?


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Aug 7, 2008)

> No luck for me Emilio! Some Spanish project to replace the HA-200? Early sixties?


You are right, Graeme, *The Hispano Aviación HA-500 Alacrán* was conceived as a modern, light, attack plane. But it went no far than the project stage, not one prototype was made. The project is from 1967, when Spain was engaged in a difficult and unpopular guerrillas war in Western Sahara. Then the attack fleet of the Spanish Air Force were the *HA-1109 *(Me-109), *CASA 2111B *(Heinkel-111) and *AT-6 Texan*!!!
At the end the project was abandoned and the next spanish attack plane was the Northrop F-5.


----------



## Grampa (Aug 7, 2008)

Dont go to fast. study closly


----------



## kool kitty89 (Aug 7, 2008)

Bf 109G-2/R1 (maybe G-4/R1) long range Jabo.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 7, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Bf 109G-2/R1 (maybe G-4/R1) long range Jabo.



Green agrees with you Chris, calling it a Bf-109G-2/RI Jabo-Rei with SC 500 bomb and disposable/jettisonable undercarriage member...






Three parts to this one. This...





...was intended to sit atop of this...





...to look something like this...





...but it was never fully completed or flown. Work was suspended, June 1940.


----------



## Grampa (Aug 7, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Bf 109G-2/R1 (maybe G-4/R1) long range Jabo.



Nope it aint. This Me 109 surly whas build by Messerschmitt but it whas modificated by another company in another country where it got a new designation.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 7, 2008)

Grampa said:


> modificated by another company in another country where it got a new designation.





> _
> "Fieseler design entrusted to the Skoda Werke near Prague, and completed under the designation FiSk 199, and tests were conducted as the *BF 109G-2/R1"*_



Green - Warplanes of the Third Reich - pp558


----------



## Grampa (Aug 7, 2008)

Graeme you got the closest ansver. It's the Fieseler - Skoda FiSk 199 with a LONG crutch type wheel mounted under the fuselage a couple feet behind the cockpit. The object was to increase ground clearance for a large centrally mountedbomb. No discussion about the design other than "At
least two examples converted to a Fiesler design at the Skoda Works. "

With such a close coupled "tail wheel", I'll bet it was a wild ride
taxiing! Some late model G's and K's had a much simpler solution - a
long tail wheel strut.

The designation is curious. I wonder if it was any connection to the
later Czech Avia C 199

FiSk-199


----------



## Trebor (Aug 7, 2008)

wow, what a fascinating aircraft, i've never seen anything like that before.


----------



## Njaco (Aug 7, 2008)

Graeme, mind if I throw one in?


----------



## Grampa (Aug 8, 2008)

Whant a hint? It have a name from a town


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Aug 8, 2008)

Hello,
the german one is a *Berlin B 9*.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Aug 8, 2008)

Hello Graeme,
No way to find the _composite aircraft_...
The spanish words you asked me are:
*Saeta* _Arrow_
*Azor* _Goshawk_
*Halcón* _Hawk_
*Alcotán* _Hobby_ (another bird of prey)
*Alacrán* _Scorpion_


----------



## Graeme (Aug 8, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> No way to find the _composite aircraft_...



Hi Emilio. Sorry, it was a poor choice, I didn't realise how little there was on the net concerning the *Pemberton Billing P.B.37 Slip Wing*...

Parasites





Noel was a little obsessed with the Slip Wing/parasite concept...










Emilio Lafuente said:


> The spanish words you asked me are:
> *Saeta* _Arrow_
> *Azor* _Goshawk_
> *Halcón* _Hawk_
> ...



Again, thank you. I've seen them time and time again, but never googled.


----------



## Njaco (Aug 8, 2008)

Correct Emilio, guess that I will go away now.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 8, 2008)

Njaco said:


> Correct Emilio, guess that I will go away now.



Don't quit Chris! Stick around and chuck a few more in.  

Another one...

Famous plane crash sixty years ago...





Famous survivor...





Name the plane and the man!


----------



## Njaco (Aug 8, 2008)

I'll take a stab.....

April 21, 1948
British European Airways Vickers Viking airliner: The Viking 1B variant, which carried 24 passengers, was equipped with two Bristol Hercules 634 14-cylinder radial air-cooled piston engines. The aircraft's maximum speed was about 423km/h (263mph).

Arnold Harry Lloyd

Vickers Viking G-AIVE


----------



## Graeme (Aug 8, 2008)

Njaco said:


> I'll take a stab.....
> 
> April 21, 1948
> British European Airways Vickers Viking airliner: The Viking 1B variant, which carried 24 passengers, was equipped with two Bristol Hercules 634 14-cylinder radial air-cooled piston engines. The aircraft's maximum speed was about 423km/h (263mph).
> ...



Great info Chris!...but....er... I was hoping to creep back before anyone noticed...and make a quick edit...it should read *50* years ago...sorry, but you're doing great! and think soccer.


----------



## Njaco (Aug 8, 2008)

It was hard to tell and with the snow and Mr. Lloyd's famous trek, thought I had it.

Will try again.

Ok, found it.

The Munich Air Disaster took place on 6 February 1958, when British European Airways Flight 609 crashed on its third attempt to take off from a slush-covered runway at the Munich-Riem airport in Munich, West Germany. On board the plane was the Manchester United football team, nicknamed the Busby Babes, along with a number of supporters and journalists. Twenty-three of the 44 passengers on board the aircraft died in the disaster.

The flight was operated by British European Airways (BEA) as an "Elizabethan" class Airspeed Ambassador charter aircraft G-ALZU Lord Burghley.

Munich Air Disaster - 50 Years on


----------



## Graeme (Aug 8, 2008)

Njaco said:


> It was hard to tell and with the snow and Mr. Lloyd's famous trek, thought I had it.



But you made it through the snow and travelled an extra decade! Good show Chris!  

Yep, the Airspeed AS 57 Ambassador and the Munich tragedy of 1958. 

Munich air disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The survivor above is Bobby Charlton...





Now Sir Bobby Charlton...

Bobby Charlton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Originally they blamed ice on the wings for the disaster, but eventually concluded that snow "slush" was the main cause. The negative of the Ambassador (G-ALZU) photo below, just before the fatal attempt to take off, revealed no traces of ice on the wing...





The pilot, Captain James Thain, had a hard life post-disaster and was finally exonerated in 1969...

Amazon.co.uk: Munich Air Disaster: Captain Thain's Ordeal: Stanley Williamson: Books



> Captain James Thain was suspended from British European Airways and made a scapegoat. He spent the next 11 years trying to clear his name. It cost him his job and because BEA had sacked him he lost his all his pension rights, they even fined him for the loss of his airline pilots cap! Rough justice indeed for a man who was an injured survivor and victim. Two German inquiries had been held into the crash and on both occasions it blamed him.
> 
> It was not until 1969 that the results of a British investigation revealed it was slush on the runway, the responsibility of Munich airport, and not ice on the wings which was the responsibility of the pilot - that caused the crash.
> The British findings concluded: "Blame for the accident is not to be imputed to Captain Thain." But the Germans never accepted this, even to this day 50 years later the German authorities still refuse to accept the British findings on the accident. No apology or restitution was ever made to him or his family for this terrible injustice


----------



## Njaco (Aug 8, 2008)

This one might be too easy.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Aug 9, 2008)

already did it a couple pages ago, Christma Bullet...



Aggie08 said:


> I actually looked through every single page in this thread and these two haven't been pictured. I think they'll get nailed but enjoy anyways. I love the top one...


----------



## Graeme (Aug 9, 2008)

A new one, and Aussie built...


----------



## Njaco (Aug 9, 2008)

> already did it a couple pages ago, Christma Bullet...



Kool, that was the one thing I didn't do.......


----------



## Storch (Aug 10, 2008)

Hello every body!

I have a problem with this plane :






I haven't any informations about it!Graeme may be?!?!

Thanks!


----------



## wingnuts (Aug 10, 2008)

I'm back after six weeks vacation ... 

Here is my (easy) contribution, it should not need any clues:


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Aug 11, 2008)

Hello all,
The streamlined Aussie is the *Gross JG-2*. I need more time to find the rest of them...


----------



## Graeme (Aug 11, 2008)

Storch said:


> I have a problem with this plane



So do I Storch. I'll leave that for Emilio!




Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hello all,
> The streamlined Aussie is the *Gross JG-2*.



Yes indeed...

JG-2: The first home made jet in Australia | A-P.net
AirCentre Aviation News Digest - April 2006 - Week Three




wingnuts said:


> I'm back after six weeks vacation ...
> Here is my (easy) contribution, it should not need any clues:



Welcome Back!





The Edgar Percival E.P.9 or Lancashire E.P.9 Prospector...





I'm pretty sure that one of these was located at Drage's Air World Museum? 

One (N747JC) is in the USA with a very interesting past...





Edgar Percival E.P.9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> The E.P.9s in their various guises had a long and successful lifespan as private aircraft, utilized in multi-role STOL operations as an agricultural sprayer, light cargo aircraft, jump plane, air ambulance and glider tug. One E.P.9 even had a more chequered career. Today, registered as N747JC, this particular E.P.9 originally was registered in Great Britain as G-ARTV. Prior to that it was XM819, one of two evaluated by the British Army Air Corps (the other being XM797). It was once owned in the late 1960s by a gang of international smugglers who found it the ideal way to smuggle stolen furs and counterfeit Swiss francs between England and Belgium. Although the criminals were apprehended in 1969, the E.P.9 ended up for sale in Belgium in 1972. After three years of pleasure flying in England, the aircraft was shipped to the United States where it sat in storage in a Wisconsin barn until 1999. After an extensive restoration, N747CJ appeared at Oshkosh in 2001-03. The aircraft currently (summer 2008) is for sale with an asking price of $59,000.



Now, back to the beach volleyball...


----------



## Storch (Aug 11, 2008)

Graeme said:


> So do I Storch. I'll leave that for Emilio!



You didn't find it so??!

No matter but if Emilio can find this plane I'll be happy 8) 

Thanks everybody!


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Aug 12, 2008)

Good morning Storch,
I´m sorry I don´t know the biplane, but I´ll try to find it more calmly...


----------



## Storch (Aug 12, 2008)

Entiende porque este avion es muy difficil si no tiene infomaciones...

Gracias !


----------



## Graeme (Aug 16, 2008)

In the meantime...

What's 'shadowing' the Halifax?...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Aug 16, 2008)

Armstrong Whitworth AW.52 ?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Aug 16, 2008)

Or Handley Page H.P. 75 Manx, which would make sense given the Halifax.

Tailless and Canard Experimental Aircraft of the RAF


----------



## Graeme (Aug 16, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Armstrong Whitworth AW.52 ?





kool kitty89 said:


> Or Handley Page H.P. 75 Manx, which would make sense given the Halifax.



Full marks for your tenacious detective work. Nearly there. You deserve a close-up...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Aug 16, 2008)

General Aircraft GAL.56, not sure which of the three it is. (but one of the 2 with constant sweep)

On the same models page: Tailless and Canard Experimental Aircraft of the RAF

Is it being towed by the Halifax?


----------



## Graeme (Aug 17, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> General Aircraft GAL.56, not sure which of the three it is. (but one of the 2 with constant sweep)



Yes. General Aircraft GAL 56/01 "Medium V" (TS507), which had a 28.4 degree sweep @ 1/4 chord. It crashed on February 12 1948, killing test pilot Robert Kronfield.



kool kitty89 said:


> Is it being towed by the Halifax?



Yes. The 'shadowing' comment was a diversionary tactic.  

New one...


----------



## Storch (Aug 17, 2008)

The Boulton Paul P.92/2?

Anybody remember the name of my plane ??

Because I ask to an other forum and they don't find niether.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Aug 17, 2008)

> Yes. The 'shadowing' comment was a diversionary tactic.



Well, I kind of guessed that given the ' 's.


----------



## Grampa (Aug 17, 2008)

Here a picture of what it whas planned to look like


----------



## Graeme (Aug 18, 2008)

Storch said:


> The Boulton Paul P.92/2?



Yes.



Storch said:


> Anybody remember the name of my plane ??
> Because I ask to an other forum and they don't find niether.



Models in a glass cabinet in a museum? Where did you find the photo? Did you take the photo Storch?

New one...


----------



## Storch (Aug 18, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Northrop T89 Scorpion?

Yes the photo show a 1/20 models probably.this photo come to the Air and space museum of The bourget next to Paris.And no I don't take this photo but man's woh take it tell me that they named the plane "Albatros" but it's not an Albatros this plane is different.


----------



## Waynos (Aug 18, 2008)

Would it be the Lockheed Starfire? Thats the only one I can think of for the moment


----------



## Waynos (Aug 18, 2008)

I depends how accurate the model is. It has the look of the Albatros C.II about it but certain details would have to be wrong for that to be the right answer, and given the obvious care taken in building it how likely is it that the details of the design would be wrong?

I have not yet found an Albatros design in which the forward undercarriage strut meets the interplane strut as it does on that model.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 18, 2008)

Storch said:


> Yes the photo show a 1/20 models probably.this photo come to the Air and space museum of The bourget next to Paris.And no I don't take this photo but man's woh take it tell me that they named the plane "Albatros" but it's not an Albatros this plane is different.



Sorry Storch, no luck. Wayne's comments above make perfect sense. A captioning problem at the museum? I noticed on this site they're having trouble naming the Spad...

http://www.parisdigest.com/museums/museedel'air.htm

Have you tried the Aerodrome Forum?...

The Aerodrome



Storch said:


> Northrop T89 Scorpion?



Yeah, F-89D. Which brings me to this. Built to a mock-up stage only...


----------



## Storch (Aug 18, 2008)

Waynos said:


> I depends how accurate the model is. It has the look of the Albatros C.II about it but certain details would have to be wrong for that to be the right answer, and given the obvious care taken in building it how likely is it that the details of the design would be wrong?
> 
> I have not yet found an Albatros design in which the forward undercarriage strut meets the interplane strut as it does on that model.



You say all that I want to say!But may be the man who build it he's wrong;Certainly;

thanks everybody for your help.


----------



## Waynos (Aug 19, 2008)

Graeme, is that the N-82, or YF-89F? I have read about the project but never seen a picture.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 20, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Graeme, is that the N-82, or YF-89F? I have read about the project but never seen a picture.



Hi Wayne.

Yes. The F-89F. Don't have much on it other than it reached the mock-up stage and was cancelled due to "technical problems involving the use of nuclear weapons". The huge mid-span mounted tanks housed the main landing gear, fuel and missiles. Unlike the Scorpion the fuselage was faired straight back from the front cockpit and the one-piece stabiliser was attached to the fuselage.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 21, 2008)

'Pick' the noses...


----------



## Krabat42 (Aug 21, 2008)

No. 4 is a Bristol Blenheim, early version (Mk.I) with the short nose.

No. 5 looks very much like an EE Lightning ("climbes like a homesick angel")

And No. 2 is the prone-pilot Meteor, a prototype (built from a Mk.8 I think)with a second pilots seat in the nose for a prone lying pilot. Winkle Brown told us - when we met him in Munich this summer - that he had great fun giving pilots a ride in the "normal" seat while he was flying in the nose. He said it was great fun pulling G's and the man in the back passed out again and again. And when he landed he was fresh and the the other guy totally exhausted.  

Krabat


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Aug 21, 2008)

No. 1 is the nose of a B-45 Tornado, and No. 3 a Blackburn Beverley???


----------



## Graeme (Aug 21, 2008)

1) Emilio

2) Krabat

3) ????

4) Krabat

5) ????


----------



## Waynos (Aug 21, 2008)

I think 3 is the short shetland and I know that 5 is the short SB.5


----------



## wingnuts (Aug 21, 2008)

Waynos said:


> I think 3 is the short shetland and I know that 5 is the short SB.5



It could be the Shorts S40 Shetland II, the civilian version with the turret location in the nose deleted....

The Prone Pilot Meteor is on display at the Newark Aircraft Museum, Lincolnshire, UK


----------



## Graeme (Aug 21, 2008)

1) Emilio

2) Krabat

3) Waynos

4) Krabat

5) Waynos

Germany and Britain...GOLD
Spain......................SILVER
And because you replied wingnuts, BRONZE to us!


----------



## Trebor (Aug 21, 2008)

ok, can anyone identify this plane?


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Aug 22, 2008)

Hello Trebor,
I think the little trainer is a *DeHavilland DHC-1 Chipmunk*


----------



## kool kitty89 (Aug 22, 2008)

How about this:


----------



## Graeme (Aug 22, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> How about this:










Bell P-63F?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Aug 22, 2008)

Yep.


----------



## Grampa (Aug 23, 2008)

How about this one. It once whas a project that had reached the mock up stage, but after an enemy air raid it whas destroyed and for unknow reason the idea of this project was abandoned.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 23, 2008)

Grampa said:


> How about this one. It once whas a project that had reached the mock up stage, but after an enemy air raid it whas destroyed and for unknow reason the idea of this project was abandoned.



The Supermarine Type 327...

AeroScale :: WW2 British Secret Projects Vol. 1 by Peter Allen





New one...


----------



## Captain Dunsel (Aug 24, 2008)

One of a kind Fokker T.VII-L, land-based version of the T.VII twin-float seaplane. Only one was built, and it was commandeered by the Germans when they overran Holland.

CD


----------



## Patoruzu (Aug 25, 2008)

Cptn. Dunsel is right Fokker TVIII land based.


----------



## Krabat42 (Aug 25, 2008)

I'd like to fly the Supermarine 327, though I wouldn't try to shoot the cannons. The propeller tips would get in the way, right? And I don't think the cannons would fit that close together, even when staggered. Would be nice to compare it to the Whirlwind or the much later Hornet though.

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Aug 26, 2008)

Captain Dunsel said:


> One of a kind Fokker T.VII-L, land-based version of the T.VII twin-float seaplane. Only one was built, and it was commandeered by the Germans when they overran Holland.CD





Patoruzu said:


> Cptn. Dunsel is right Fokker TVIII land based.



Yes to you both.

I have a name and a country of origin for this one, but little else...


----------



## Patoruzu (Aug 26, 2008)

Yugoslavian Ikarus 215 developed from the 214

No more info yet. still looking for


----------



## runningdog (Aug 26, 2008)

Ikarus, 121 I think..........



Sorry Patoruzo, you beat me to it and yes, you're right. 215. Advanced twin-engined trainer, designed by a Prf Stankov. First flew 1952. I've got some notes somewhere..........


----------



## Graeme (Aug 26, 2008)

Patoruzu said:


> Yugoslavian Ikarus 215 developed from the 214
> No more info yet. still looking for





runningdog said:


> Sorry Patoruzo, you beat me to it and yes, you're right. 215. Advanced twin-engined trainer, designed by a Prf Stankov. First flew 1952. I've got some notes somewhere..........



As far as I can tell, yes! The caption calls it a product of the Air Force Technical Institute (Ikarus?) Type 215 crew trainer. Can't find much on the net about it...


----------



## Graeme (Aug 27, 2008)

Moving on...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Aug 27, 2008)

Could it be a *Short Stirling*??
I think it´s the Stirling prototype RAF serial number L7600, written off during her maiden flight 14 May 1939.
The Stirling Pages


----------



## Graeme (Aug 27, 2008)

Goddamn that was quick Emilio!

OK, one more...


----------



## Patoruzu (Aug 27, 2008)

Sorry can see the Stirling pic GRAEME - perhaps a link to it?


----------



## Graeme (Aug 27, 2008)

Patoruzu said:


> Sorry can see the Stirling pic GRAEME - perhaps a link to it?



Hmmm..ImageShack problems Patoruzu. They sometimes disappear and return. No link, sorry, scanned image, but it was the Short Stirling.


----------



## Patoruzu (Aug 27, 2008)

ok GRAEME


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 1, 2008)

Italian? Ambrosini?

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Sep 1, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Italian?



Hi Krabat! How have you been?

I'll even accept "Italian" after five days... ... Sergio Stefanutti's second canard, the two-seat S.S.2 of 1937.

New one...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Sep 1, 2008)

Hi Graeme,
The british one is a *Miles M.30 Minor*. I assure you I have tried the beautiful cannard to no avail...


----------



## Graeme (Sep 1, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hi Graeme,
> The british one is a *Miles M.30 Minor*.



Certainly is Emilio...

Miles M.30 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 2, 2008)

> Hi Krabat! How have you been?



Not good, not bad either. Just busy. Sorry for that but 2008 is a tough year and it wont get better the next months. I will visit the forum from time to time but probably not regularly.

But for now I got a really tough one. Ask for hints!





Krabat


----------



## Ramirezzz (Sep 2, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Not good, not bad either. Just busy. Sorry for that but 2008 is a tough year and it wont get better the next months. I will visit the forum from time to time but probably not regularly.
> 
> But for now I got a really tough one. Ask for hints!
> 
> ...



XB-35 "Flying Wing"


----------



## kool kitty89 (Sep 2, 2008)

That was fast!


----------



## Graeme (Sep 2, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> 2008 is a tough year and it wont get better the next months.



Genuinely sorry to hear that Krabat. Hope life improves soon.



kool kitty89 said:


> That was fast!



Yeah, its a tough audience.

This is a famous photograph of a cockpit hurtling to destruction with two occupants. Even more human destruction occurred on the ground. What was the aircraft? And what happened?...


----------



## rochie (Sep 2, 2008)

is that the sea vixen that crashed at farnborugh in the 50's, it broke up mid air and the engines hit the crowd killing alot of people and injuring lots more


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 2, 2008)

That was fast. You knew the picture already.



> Genuinely sorry to hear that Krabat. Hope life improves soon.



Thanks, I appreciate it. It will and even if not, I will learn to cope.  

The picture shows the crash of the DH110 with John Derry and Anthony Richards at Farnborough in 1952, killing a lot of spectators too:

1952 Farnborough Airshow DH.110 crash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apprentices at 1952 SBAC Air Show

Vixen

Krabat


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 3, 2008)

And a new one:





Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Sep 3, 2008)

rochie said:


> is that the sea vixen that crashed at farnborugh in the 50's, it broke up mid air and the engines hit the crowd killing alot of people and injuring lots more





Krabat42 said:


> The picture shows the crash of the DH110 with John Derry and Anthony Richards at Farnborough in 1952, killing a lot of spectators too:



Yeah, the destruction of the DeHavilland 110 at Farnborough with the violent pitch up resulting in the engines/cockpit separating... 








Krabat42 said:


> And a new one:



The Bloch 162?


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 3, 2008)

Jepp, the Bloch 162. Quick as ever.  

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Sep 3, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Jepp, the Bloch 162.



Hi Krabat. Wasn't sure. Where did you get the photo from? It looks different to the internet images I managed to locate.

Similar theme...(that's a clue  )...


----------



## Patoruzu (Sep 3, 2008)

amiot 351/354?


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 3, 2008)

> Hi Krabat. Wasn't sure. Where did you get the photo from? It looks different to the internet images I managed to locate.



Got it from here:

Samoloty

Though I can't read polish.

Krabat


----------



## Patoruzu (Sep 3, 2008)

Look at the windshield, same framing.

An Amiot 351/354


----------



## Graeme (Sep 3, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Though I can't read polish.



Thanks Krabat. Same problem here. Their photo appears devoid of the dorsal and ventral cannon armament and the tail looks different?











Patoruzu said:


> Look at the windshield, same framing.
> An Amiot 351/354



Nicely done Paoruzu, the cockpit area of the Amiot 354.


----------



## Flyboy2 (Sep 3, 2008)

Is that a Bloch 162


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 4, 2008)

And look what I've found:

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

[/URL]

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

[/URL]

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Sep 4, 2008)

Flyboy2 said:


> Is that a Bloch 162



The 4-engined bomber Krabat posted? Yes.



Krabat42 said:


> And look what I've found


 
The *CHU (AFMAF) X-PO.* Not exactly a memorable name for a plane.


----------



## Patoruzu (Sep 4, 2008)

Chu X-PO
Designed in 1941, the X-PO was a single-seat fighter monoplane, the single prototype of which was produced by AFAMF in 1943. Based largely on the Curtiss Hawk 75, it was of mixed construction with wooden wings, welded steel tube fuselage and plywood skinning.

Type: X-PO
Country: China
Function: fighter
Year: 1943 Crew: 1 Engines: 1 * 1200hp P&W R1830-S1C3-G Twin Wasp
Wing Span: Length: Height: Wing Area: 
Empty Weight: Max.Weight: 
Speed: Ceiling: Range:
Armament: (2*g20mm)


Chu <B>X-PO</B>


----------



## Patoruzu (Sep 5, 2008)

Thats an interesting machine for a weekend challenge.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 6, 2008)

Looks similar to a few machines...but no, I don't recognise it Patoruzu, so I'll wait patiently for your return!


----------



## Airframes (Sep 6, 2008)

Seen it somewhere before --- Boeing??


----------



## Waynos (Sep 7, 2008)

Isn't it the Italian (Breda? Caproni?) world altitude record aircraft? Or something to do with high altitude research. I know I've seen it before but its bugging me


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 8, 2008)

This argeninian or brasilian post war ground attack aircraft comes to mind. Or maybe I'm still not woken up enough this monday morning.  

Krabat


----------



## Patoruzu (Sep 8, 2008)

Waynos almost right.......... Think in a scooter


----------



## Patoruzu (Sep 8, 2008)

Krabat bist noch eingeschlafen? - mach´ die Augen auf............


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 8, 2008)

Fwwwzzzbrrzzzll... What? Oh, it's the Piaggio P.111.  

Krabat

Du sprichst deutsch, Patorozu? Deutsche Eltern oder Auswanderer oder einfach nur arbeiten in Argentinien?


----------



## Patoruzu (Sep 8, 2008)

16 Jahre deutsche Schule in Buenos Aires, deutsche Frau und deutsche Töchter. Und ist ja ein Piaggio P 111

Krabat did it its a Piaggio P111!!


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 9, 2008)

Iss ja herrlich. Einer meiner WG-Mitbewohner hat auch Jahre in Buenos gelebt. Die Welt ist ein Dorf.  

O.K., back to business:





Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Sep 9, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> O.K., back to business:



Hi Krabat. The Kalinin K-7.

Kalinin K 7

I'd like the name of the plane and the "middle man"...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Sep 9, 2008)

Hi all,
Well, the aircraft is a *Wackett Gannet*, but the "middle man" would take more searching time...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Sep 9, 2008)

Could he be *Sir Charles Kingsford-Smith*???


----------



## Graeme (Sep 9, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hi all,
> Well, the aircraft is a *Wackett Gannet*, but the "middle man" would take more searching time...



Hi Emilo.

It's the Wackett LJW6 Codock, which was the basis for the Gannet (LJW7)...







Emilio Lafuente said:


> Could he be *Sir Charles Kingsford-Smith*???



Sure is. He bought it for 3,500 pounds and flew it on its maiden flight on March 6 1934. He flew it rarely and it was a troublesome aircraft that ended its days in a paddock on a winery, until destroyed by a fire.


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 9, 2008)

I should have known that it's from downunder.  Yepp, you're right Emilio. Found this:

http://www-prod.nla.gov.au/pub/nlanews/2007/oct07/story-2.pdf

The picture is on page 4.

Krabat


----------



## Waynos (Sep 9, 2008)

here's a fairly recent one, should be easy.

er, below.


----------



## Waynos (Sep 9, 2008)




----------



## Graeme (Sep 9, 2008)

Waynos said:


> here's a fairly recent one, should be easy.



Hi Waynos, the Fairchild T-46...

Fairchild T-46 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Krabat42 said:


> O.K., back to business:



Found another Russian "giant" while sourcing your K-7 photo Krabat...


----------



## B-17engineer (Sep 9, 2008)

What was the point of the Antonov Flying tank??


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Sep 10, 2008)

Hi Graeme,
The giant russian bomber is a *Slesarev Svyatogor*
Slesarev Svyatogor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 10, 2008)

... which is sgain named after a mythological russian hero just like Sikorsky's Ilja Muromez - I'm such a smartass.  

Svyatogor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Krabat


----------



## runningdog (Sep 10, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Yeah, the destruction of the DeHavilland 110 at Farnborough with the violent pitch up resulting in the engines/cockpit separating...
> 
> Sorry to go back in time lads, been away on my hols.
> I was there that day, nowhere near the crash. The full horror of it didn't impinge until I saw it on Pathe News............


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 11, 2008)

Wow. But I know how this is. I was at Duxford when the Firefly crashed.  

Krabat


----------



## Waynos (Sep 11, 2008)

Was that Russian creation designed by a person who had ever seen a plane before?


----------



## Graeme (Sep 11, 2008)

Probably still not enough personnel in front to mask the identity of this one...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Sep 11, 2008)

My first thought was the XF-90, but I'm not sure about the tail.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Sep 12, 2008)

I´m happy with the *Lockheed XF-90 *answer, too.


----------



## Patoruzu (Sep 12, 2008)

Ok - Same answer an Lockheed XF90


----------



## Graeme (Sep 12, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> My first thought was the XF-90, but I'm not sure about the tail.





Emilio Lafuente said:


> I´m happy with the *Lockheed XF-90 *answer, too.





Patoruzu said:


> Ok - Same answer an Lockheed XF90



The "Skunk Works" 1949. Johnson and LeVier are missing but Hall Hibbard is at front centre, with arms folded, and Don Palmer next to him.
And yes, uncompleted in the background is the XF-90.


----------



## B-17engineer (Sep 12, 2008)

Cool picture....!


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 15, 2008)

True. Especially when you know the people. I'm impressed.

OK the, here's another one. This time a man, not a machine:

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

[/URL]

A few hints?

Born in Cheshire, died in London aged 98. Got a Military Cross (for taking pictures) and an Academy Award, was both an ace and a writer.


----------



## Patoruzu (Sep 15, 2008)

Sorry Krabat can´t see the picture. Those net problems!!!!


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 15, 2008)

Oh yes, if you'd see the picture, it would be too easy.  

here's another link:

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

[/URL]

Krabat


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 16, 2008)

Nothing yet? Okay, another hint: He flew in China too and one of his books was the main inspiration for a movie with Malcolm McDowall.

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Sep 16, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Malcolm McDowall.



Hi Krabat. That was the only Google clue that worked for me. McDowall and the Movie "Aces High". Came up with Cecil Arthur Lewis...

Cecil Arthur Lewis - The Aerodrome - Aces and Aircraft of World War I

New one...
Mosquito engine test bed. Unique engine designed for a unique jet that only made a short hop. What was the *4*-engined jet?


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 16, 2008)

That was a tough one, Graeme, the FFA N-20 "Aiguillon".

FFA N-20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I read that the Mossi they used as a test bed was originally interned during the war.

OK, it's getting more and more interesting. here's another man:

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

[/URL]

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Sep 16, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> I read that the Mossi they used as a test bed was originally interned during the war.



Yeah, I was hoping that the Mossie would infer "British" and throw you off the scent! So much for that!

Test pilot for Hawker? or are you also playing tricks!


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 17, 2008)

> I was hoping that the Mossie would infer "British" and throw you off the scent!



It did. Though I found that the swiss interred a Mossi and used it as a testbed, from there it was a short hop.  

And yes, the man was test pilot for Hawker but he also flew Thunderbolts, Beaufighters and other types in WW2. In December 1961 he ejected from a then new type of aircraft in which he also did a lot of the initial testing. He's an OBE too. That should be enough.  

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Sep 17, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> That should be enough.



Actually it wasn't Krabat. My searches eventually reduced me to looking for a Hawker test pilot...with a "dimpled" chin!   But I think I found him...








Do you know what the aircraft is in your photo, with "Hawker" on the tail?
I was initially obsessed with Beamont and Duke and thought that the "1961 ejection" must have been from the English Electric Lightning. Considering Bedford, it must have been the P.1127/Kestral?


----------



## Krabat42 (Sep 18, 2008)

Good work Graeme, a tough one. I owe you an "Ehringsdorfer" if we meet one day.  

Yes, Bedford is the right one but I don't know what aircraft is in the picture. I found it here:

Test Research Pilots, Aircraft Engineers

A lot of interesting people there. Like this one:    

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

[/URL]

From Greg Goebel's website is the following text about the P1127 and Bedford's ejection:

"* The second prototype, XP836, broke Mach 1.2 in a dive in early December 1961, but it was lost a few days later, on 14 December, when one of its air intakes came loose in flight, Bill Bedford ejecting safely. Despite this setback, by this time the promise of the type was so evident that the month before, in early November, the MoS had ordered four more P.1127s, which would emerge with the serial numbers "XP972", "XP976", "XP980", and "XP984", in that order of delivery."

Oh, and by the way. In "the other" thread you posted scans of articles about Brown, the Tigercat, Hornet and the Corsair. Could you send me the complete articles by mail? I'd like to read what he said about these types. Thanks in advance.

Krabat


----------



## Waynos (Sep 19, 2008)

Here is an odd sight I stumbled across, so I'd thought I'd stick the image up here for you lot to play with, and for bonus points whats behind it?;


----------



## runningdog (Sep 19, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Here is an odd sight I stumbled across, so I'd thought I'd stick the image up here for you lot to play with, and for bonus points whats behind it?;
> QUOTE]
> Looks like the remains of a Britannia to me, though I haven't a clue about the other one..........


----------



## runningdog (Sep 19, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Do you know what the aircraft is in your photo, with "Hawker" on the tail?


My guess is a Tomtit, but I'm open to correction as I thought the 'civvie' Tomtit owned by Hawkers was G-AFTA, the one in the Shuttleworth Collection.


PS. Wrong, it's a Hart/Hind/Audax sort of thing. Most likely a Hind as Hawkers owned one alongside the Tomtit and a Hurricane. A Hind still flys from Old Warden, along with the Tomtit. I saw both of them there about 10 years or so ago. 
They were superb..........


----------



## Waynos (Sep 19, 2008)

Not a Britannia runningdog, no.


----------



## runningdog (Sep 19, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Not a Britannia runningdog, no.


Ah well, thought it was too good to be true..........


----------



## Graeme (Sep 19, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Thanks in advance.



Not a problem! In the mail this week. 



runningdog said:


> PS. Wrong, it's a Hart/Hind/Audax sort of thing.



Hi RD. I was thinking a Hart II (Kestrel) Registration G-ABM*R*.



Waynos said:


> Here is an odd sight I stumbled across, so I'd thought I'd stick the image up here for you lot to play with, and for bonus points whats behind it?



Hi Wayne. "Stumbled across" as in Britain or on the internet? I thought Britannia or Hermes as well, but the short distance from the nose to wing root looks odd. Considering what looks like a MiG-23/25 in the background, maybe a Soviet theme to the photo? Tupolev-124?


----------



## Waynos (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi Graeme, not on the internet, no. its a photo I took myself here in the UK. full marks for the MiG 23. You are in the right era for the fuselage, would it help if I told you that production of this aircraft never reached double figures, nor was it only a prototype? That is why I snapped such a tatty fuselage when I saw it.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 20, 2008)

So...then I thought maybe AW Apollo or Tay Viscount and in desperation maybe an Avro Jetliner. Googled "Avro Jetliner fuselage in UK"...and found this instead...

Avro Ashton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Graeme (Sep 20, 2008)

In a similar vein but probably too easy for a Brit....


----------



## Waynos (Sep 20, 2008)

Yes Graeme, thats it, well thought through! At least the Airspeed Ambassador has its own undercarriage to stand on.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 21, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Airspeed Ambassador



That's the one.



Waynos said:


> a tatty fuselage



Another forlorn fuselage...


----------



## runningdog (Sep 21, 2008)

Hi RD. I was thinking a Hart II (Kestrel) Registration G-ABM*R*.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's the one, I couldn't find my registration lists until this morning.
Have you seen Shuttleworth's Hind, it is gorgeous.........


----------



## runningdog (Sep 21, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Another forlorn fuselage...



My guess, and it is a guess. CASA C-201 Alcotan.

Departs stage right, crossing fingers...........


----------



## Graeme (Sep 21, 2008)

runningdog said:


> Have you seen Shuttleworth's Hind, it is gorgeous.........



Only on the internet runningdog...








runningdog said:


> My guess, and it is a guess. CASA C-201 Alcotan.



Yeah it does look a bit like the Alcotan...








...but no. This was Lieutenant General Baba-Masao's personal transport for his "surrender flight"...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Sep 22, 2008)

Electra Junior?


----------



## Graeme (Sep 22, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Electra Junior?



It's Japanese.


----------



## Patoruzu (Sep 22, 2008)

Its a Tachikawa Ki 54 Allied code name hickory


----------



## Graeme (Sep 22, 2008)

Patoruzu said:


> Its a Tachikawa Ki 54 Allied code name hickory



That was very quick Patoruzu! Yep, Ki-54. The same aircraft, but in a better condition...





Baba Masao's Ki-54 eventually ended up in a kindergarten at a RAAF base (Fairbairn) in Canberra, but I don't know what eventually became of it.


----------



## Patoruzu (Sep 23, 2008)

Trebor are U refering to the DHC Chipmunk? - the one with the british roundels?


----------



## v2 (Oct 1, 2008)

I found it for you , guys....


----------



## wh1skea (Oct 1, 2008)

Is it a "droop snoot" P-38?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 1, 2008)

No, I think it might be Russian.


----------



## Patoruzu (Oct 1, 2008)

I think the engine looks like a french one! but props rotated leftwards - can be russian


----------



## Patoruzu (Oct 1, 2008)

Archangelski (Cyrilic MMH) MMN !!


----------



## v2 (Oct 1, 2008)

yes, you are right, it's MMN 2M-105.


----------



## Wildcat (Oct 1, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Baba Masao's Ki-54 eventually ended up in a kindergarten at a RAAF base (Fairbairn) in Canberra, but I don't know what eventually became of it.



Graeme, I believe the fuselage is held in storage by the AWM.


----------



## Krabat42 (Oct 2, 2008)

I thought Archangelsi or Jermolajev, I was so close.  

Here's a new one:





With the appropriate hint:





Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Oct 2, 2008)

Wildcat said:


> Graeme, I believe the fuselage is held in storage by the AWM.



Thanks Andy, I thought it may have perished as a result of the environment and/or the kindergarten kids! 



Krabat42 said:


> With the appropriate hint:



Hi Krabat, back from holidays?

Very appropriate hint! Redford played Johnny Hooker in "The Sting" (1973), so it must be Sir Stanley Hooker...





Stanley Hooker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Similar process?...





Hint...


----------



## Krabat42 (Oct 2, 2008)

> Hi Krabat, back from holidays?



Not yet. In fact I wasn't really away yet. But now that my girlfriend's play is on stage in Munich, I will have a little more time. At least she will have, I hope.   

Stanley Hooker is correct. Again very fast.



> Similar process?...



I know this man. I'm thinking of a young Alec Issigonis, wrong kind of engineer. A young Seversky? Maybe James Jabara? I will have to think about it.

Is this the young Charles Kaman? Could find only older pictures but it would fit to the hint...

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Oct 2, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> it would fit to the hint...



Twas a dumb clue Krabat. "X"-Men...X-Plane pilot/engineer. Flew the X-1, X-4, X-5, X-15...


----------



## Waynos (Oct 3, 2008)

I thought you meant the plane behind Stanley Hooker! Anyway its a Bristol Britannia.


----------



## v2 (Oct 3, 2008)

Scott Crossfield: 1921-2006,
NASA - NASA Dryden Pilot's Biographies - Scott Crossfield


----------



## Krabat42 (Oct 3, 2008)

> Twas a dumb clue Krabat.



Not at all. My mistake. I read about Crossfield in a magazine two weeks ago. I remember when I read that he died in 2006 in a Cessna crash. I even saw the picture in the german Wikipedia! Stupidstupidstupid. I knew I've seen this guy.  

But I like we way we give "hints". Makes the old wooden gears in the brain turning a different way.  

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Oct 4, 2008)

v2 said:


> Scott Crossfield: 1921-2006,
> NASA - NASA Dryden Pilot's Biographies - Scott Crossfield



That's him V2.

New one. A glider...with a Ford V-8 engine mounted in the fuselage (item No.28)...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 4, 2008)

Antonov A-7?


----------



## Graeme (Oct 4, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Antonov A-7?



Yeah, it does look like the A-7, but no, it's not Russian.

A handful were made during WWII. Tugs included the Battle, Wapiti, Dakota and even the Spitfire.
It incorporated components from the DH-84 Dragon.

Three versions...





The cutaway is represented by "C" which was an early postwar experiment with the "suction-wing" concept, hence the V-8 and centrifugal fan.


----------



## v2 (Oct 5, 2008)

DHA G1 or DHA G2?


----------



## Graeme (Oct 5, 2008)

v2 said:


> DHA G1 or DHA G2?



Hi v2! I would've even accepted "DHA Glider"! Nicely done!

Built in Australia. 

The cutaway is a DHA G2 converted to take the "suction" apparatus making it the DHA GLAS II (Griffith Laminar Airfoil Section or Glauert Lighthill Section).
Interesting concept but unfortunately the suction holes kept getting blocked by insects!

de Havilland Australia GLAS II Suction Wing Glider


----------



## v2 (Oct 6, 2008)

next one...


----------



## Graeme (Oct 7, 2008)

v2 said:


> next one...



Your namesake?  

The Bernard *V2*


----------



## v2 (Oct 7, 2008)

Yes... v2


----------



## Krabat42 (Oct 9, 2008)

And a new one:





Krabat


----------



## Waynos (Oct 9, 2008)

Ansaldo.......................er....................SVA.10? or Pomilio?


----------



## Patoruzu (Oct 10, 2008)

Can be a Pomilio PC1?


----------



## Krabat42 (Oct 10, 2008)

Pomilio is close. It's a Pomilio PE.

Pomilio PE - The Aerodrome - Aces and Aircraft of World War I

Krabat


----------



## pbfoot (Oct 10, 2008)

once again I need some genius , another dilmna from the back yard they went like hell about 10 laps but they didn't get low . there was two of them nut there appears to be 2 xtra fins


----------



## Patoruzu (Oct 11, 2008)

Looks like a T6 Texan II - Pilatus built in USA


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 12, 2008)

Yup... looks very similar to the Pilatus PC9 as used by the RAAF .... I used to make the wings.... not just me, I had help 8)


----------



## Airframes (Oct 12, 2008)

Yup, definitely looks like it. The R.A.F. version is the Embraer-designed Tucano, built under licence by Shorts of Belfast. I believe the others, Pilatus et al, are also licenced from Embraer. What appears to be two fins I think is light reflecting off the fuselage, plus the ventral fin. A very nice aircraft, BTW.


----------



## Patoruzu (Oct 12, 2008)

Airframes said:


> Yup, definitely looks like it. The R.A.F. version is the Embraer-designed Tucano, built under licence by Shorts of Belfast. I believe the others, Pilatus et al, are also licenced from Embraer. What appears to be two fins I think is light reflecting off the fuselage, plus the ventral fin. A very nice aircraft, BTW.



The Texan II is a USA tailored Pilatus built by Raytheon winner of the Jpats.
The aussie one is also a pilatus.
But they have nothing in common with the British Tucanoes or the Brasilian ones. The Tucano was also a contender of the Jpats.


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 12, 2008)

Although they look very similar the PC9 is no relation to the Turcano... simply another result of form following function.

The PC9 was developed from the PC7 which first flew about 1978... the Turcano was a bit later.

Embraer EMB 312 Tucano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pilatus PC-7 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pilatus PC-9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Airframes (Oct 12, 2008)

Thanks for that. I think I read that Embraer had bought some design data from Pilatus, that led to the Tucano; the same reading indicated that the RAF (or MoD Procurement) had originally looked at the Pilatus, but could get a better deal via Emraer's licencing. Apparently, the first two (?) aircraft were supplied by Embraer, for evaluation etc., back in the seventies. However, it's quite some time since I saw this info, so I could very well be wrong!


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 12, 2008)

The whole trainer procurement project for the RAAF was a nightmare.... originally the RAAF wanted a locally designed side by trainer, the CT4 Wamira. Due to cost over runs, mainly caused by the RAAF that kept changing the requirements and the project was dumped.... it became a choice between the Turcano, PC7 and PC9... the PC9 won

I was working for CAC at the time as an QA Inspector and I was also the unofficial company cartoonist. The project problems provided me with lots of cartoon material, kept me busy for months....  

..... and plenty of friction with the higher ups  

AAC Wamira - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Airframes (Oct 13, 2008)

Looks like a similar thing happened then. Apparently, the RAF ( or more correctly, MoD) also had conflicts between home-grown designs, the PC9 and the Tucano; the latter, as you know, won the day. I have heard though, that the final decision, apart from costs, also had something to do with the political situation re Northern Ireland, and Shorts of Belfast got the contract.
Done a bit of checking since the last posr. It seems that Pilatus were influenced by design features of the Brazilian Tucano, which led, in part, to development of the PC9 over the PC7.
Overall, though, it is remarkable how similar these aircraft look. The British contender, the Firecracker, also looked very similar. Put the Pilatus, Tucano and Firecracker alongside each other, in RAF trainer colours, and they'd look almost the same! Like your bit about the cartoons!
Terry.


----------



## Waynos (Oct 13, 2008)

The Wamira was also a contender for the RAF requirement, though the MoD requested that AAC design a tandem seat version just for us, wooo.


----------



## Graeme (Oct 14, 2008)

New one...


----------



## Airframes (Oct 14, 2008)

Looks a bit like the remains of a Panther?


----------



## Waynos (Oct 14, 2008)

Hmmm, the first thing it brings to mind for me is the North American AJ-1 Savage, but in such poor shape its hard to say (oh, and you have mail if you didn't already see it)

Ha scrub that answer, it suddenly looks like the Vought Pirate instead


----------



## Captain Dunsel (Oct 14, 2008)

Lockheed XF6U Pirate?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 14, 2008)

The XF6U is by Vought (hence F6*U*) But it really does look like one.


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 14, 2008)

"ike your bit about the cartoons!"
Terry.[/QUOTE]

I don't actually have a Wamira cartoon handy but this is a sample of what I used to do.... see if anyone can identify the aircraft... it may be just a cartoon but drew if from the actual aircraft and I tried to keep it accurate... 

....anyway it should be easier than some of the photos posted here


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 14, 2008)

CAC Wirraway?


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 14, 2008)

Correct Kool Kitty, that particular one is now in the RAN Museum in Nowra NSW...  

This was the follow-on cartoon, an example of a day in the life of the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation in the 1980s


----------



## Graeme (Oct 15, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Vought Pirate





Captain Dunsel said:


> XF6U Pirate?





kool kitty89 said:


> The XF6U



A sad Pirate, No.122479 (the second of 30 produced), used for target practice from 1952 onwards.

New one...


----------



## Airframes (Oct 15, 2008)

Kool Kitty beat me to it with Wirraway! Great cartoons, think I'll print one off.
Now, this new one. I haven't a clue!


----------



## runningdog (Oct 15, 2008)

Neither have I, not often I'm completely stumped...........


----------



## Waynos (Oct 15, 2008)

Looks like a small scale test plane for a bigger flying boat......French?.....otherwise a bit stuck


----------



## Captain Dunsel (Oct 15, 2008)

> The XF6U is by Vought (hence F6U) But it really does look lit it.


\

Sound of a head hitting a keyboard.

Repeatedly.

Here I am, several months into scratch building an OS2U, and I confuse Lockheed and Vought.... 

CD


----------



## Airframes (Oct 15, 2008)

This latest puzzler looks like someone's added a glazed nose and two more engines to a Canberra, then stuck on a Viscount tail, after sticking on the wings of a B24!
Doubt I'd even come close with an answer!


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 15, 2008)

Looks a bit like a Republic Rainbow


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 15, 2008)

Republic Rainbow perhaps?


----------



## Graeme (Oct 16, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Looks like a small scale test plane for a bigger flying boat......French?.....otherwise a bit stuck



Very good. A 1/3 scale flying boat. Just need a name... Another shot of it...





And this is the full scale 140 tonne monster it was meant to "grow up" to be...


----------



## Trebor (Oct 16, 2008)

wow, heh I like that plane. I'd not mind having a model of it


----------



## v2 (Oct 16, 2008)

S.N.C.A.S.E. SE-1200/SE-1210


----------



## Graeme (Oct 16, 2008)

v2 said:


> S.N.C.A.S.E. SE-1200/SE-1210


----------



## v2 (Oct 17, 2008)

next one....


----------



## Marcel (Oct 17, 2008)

Fokker D.XVII  

It's a Hawker Fury


----------



## v2 (Oct 17, 2008)

Nope... try again Marcel...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 17, 2008)

Hawker Hind? Or Hart? Nimrod? (a lot of similar looking related Kestrel powered Hawker Biplanes)


----------



## v2 (Oct 17, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Hawker Hind? Or Hart? Nimrod? (a lot of similar looking related Kestrel powered Hawker Biplanes)



nope...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Oct 17, 2008)

*Parnall Pipit*!!!!!


----------



## Waynos (Oct 17, 2008)

Yes Emilio has it, so here's another one


----------



## v2 (Oct 17, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> *Parnall Pipit*!!!!!


----------



## Waynos (Oct 18, 2008)

Is this one proving difficult, or has nobody looked yet?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 18, 2008)

It looks familiar to me, but I can't place it. It looks like it might be of US origin, or at least use an American engine.

It looks like a single seater, given the canopy. (the canopy being rather distinctive as well)

Is it a fighter?


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 18, 2008)

It does look a bit like an A-33 though. (the gear match, the canopy lookswrong, and I'm not sure about the fuselage)


----------



## Waynos (Oct 18, 2008)

Good spot on the engine KK, its a Wright Cyclone. However the engine and canopy have been modified from the norm, quite a lot actually.

The plane in the picture has had a rear gun turret removed from behind the pilot, but that was only experimental anyway. it was quite different to begin with but the main fuselage, wings u/c and tail have not been altered at all.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 18, 2008)

Fairey Battle? (that was, in fact, one of the first things that came to mind with the long fuselage and the wing)


----------



## Graeme (Oct 19, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Fairey Battle? (that was, in fact, one of the first things that came to mind with the long fuselage and the wing)



Always go with your first gut instinct Chris!

Rehashed Battle (R7439) built by Fairchild-Canada, in Quebec?





Google Image Result for http://base13.glasnet.ru/text/ap/battle/09-4.jpg


----------



## v2 (Oct 19, 2008)

more pics...


----------



## Waynos (Oct 19, 2008)

Yes thats the one, well spotted. Looks quite different doesn't it?


----------



## runningdog (Oct 19, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Yes thats the one, well spotted. Looks quite different doesn't it?


Bloody hell. I could have stared that for a week and not got anywhere............


----------



## v2 (Oct 19, 2008)

here's another one...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 19, 2008)

So it was the Fairey Battle IIT turret trainer. (the IT was the Merlin powered one)

The new one looks interesting.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Oct 20, 2008)

*Zlin Z.XIII*

http://www.zlinaircraft.cz/fotogalery/history/23.jpg

Zln Z-XIII

Only one made in 1934


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 20, 2008)

Interesting plane, any more info?

And a new one


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Oct 20, 2008)

The latvian *VEF I.16 Irbitis*

VEF I-16 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 20, 2008)

That was fast... Was it because I left the name in the file name? (I realized the mistake and went back to edit, but you got there first)


----------



## v2 (Oct 20, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> *Zlin Z.XIII*
> 
> http://www.zlinaircraft.cz/fotogalery/history/23.jpg
> 
> ...



bingo Emilio!


----------



## v2 (Oct 20, 2008)

next one...


----------



## Graeme (Oct 20, 2008)

A gutted PZL P.50 Jastrzab?


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Oct 20, 2008)

This is polish: *PZL P-50 Jastrzab*

Thanks V2 for such interesting airplanes!!!


----------



## v2 (Oct 20, 2008)

yes, You are really fast...


----------



## Graeme (Oct 20, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Thanks V2 for such interesting airplanes!!!



Ditto!

There appears to be a brace under the elevator. I couldn't find any photos or 3-views of the PZL.50 (in a better condition) with this fitted?

OK. No hiding the nationality on this one...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Oct 20, 2008)

Hi Graeme,

Today we have frenetic activity. I´m afraid I have a lot of work left to tomorrow...

This is a *Kellner-Bechereau E.60*

Obviously French.


----------



## Graeme (Oct 20, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hi Graeme,
> 
> Today we have frenetic activity. I´m afraid I have a lot of work left to tomorrow...
> 
> ...



Wow! A whole 6 minutes for that one. But don't go to work empty handed Emilio, one more for tonight...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Oct 20, 2008)

Hi Graeme,

I´m at the edge of loosing my job after so much brain time dedicated to looking for rare airplanes!!
Very challenging the last one: the french *CAMS 110 *
Fortunately enough tomorrow I´ve to go to Madrid for work reasons, so no chance to check internet!!


----------



## Graeme (Oct 21, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> the french *CAMS 110 *



Emilio, my hat goes off to you. Enjoy Madrid! 

Speaking of Spain, this one nearly made it to the Spanish Civil War...


----------



## Waynos (Oct 21, 2008)

Er Vultee V-1? going by the nose/canopy,


----------



## Graeme (Oct 21, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Er Vultee V-1? going by the nose/canopy,



Very close. 

The guy who designed this plane had worked with Gerald Vultee on the V1, but it's much smaller ...





Owners included Jacqueline Cochrane and Paul Mantz. It was intended for Spain, but crashed while moving from aerodrome to aerodrome in Mexico to allude the FBI and anti-Spanish-Republican reporters.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Oct 22, 2008)

Hi all, this is the *Breese-Dallas X*
A lot of work lately so I´ve not so much time for quizies...


----------



## Graeme (Oct 22, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hi all, this is the *Breese-Dallas X*
> A lot of work lately so I´ve not so much time for quizies...



Right again Emilio.

Pressing on...


----------



## Waynos (Oct 22, 2008)

Would that be the Latecoere L.631?


----------



## Graeme (Oct 22, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Would that be the Latecoere L.631?



Yep. I should have lopped a 'few' of the engines off the image!


----------



## Waynos (Oct 22, 2008)

You know Graeme, after the small scale one earlier I was waiting for this one to turn up, I even considered it myself


----------



## Waynos (Oct 22, 2008)

Heres one to have a go at;


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 22, 2008)

It looks kind of like an F-86. (especially the canopy) Hmm...


----------



## wingnuts (Oct 22, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Heres one to have a go at;



Where?... can't see anything!


----------



## Graeme (Oct 23, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Heres one to have a go at



The Supermarine Type 545.

This one only reached the mock-up stage...


----------



## Waynos (Oct 23, 2008)

Thats the Armstrong Whitworth 168, would-be Buccaneer. I've always been struck by its apparent likeness to the A-6 Intruder in many respects.


----------



## Graeme (Oct 23, 2008)

Very good Wayne! Obviously you have a lot of knowledge on British Projects, so I was wondering about this one...you probably know about it.





Another Armstrong project (a serious one - despite the "Thunderbirds" look) for a supersonic transport.

According to the article the MoA placed a contract for five solid fuel rockets that were fitted with the "M" wing, in 1960. I'm under the impression that they flew? Do you have any more? Any photos/images? Can't find much on the internet.


----------



## Waynos (Oct 23, 2008)

I have some three view images, but no photo's I'm aware of. The one you posted is the P.13003, this evolved into the P22001 which was bigger and with a T-tail. AW weren't the only ones to try this comical layout though, there was also the mystriously named Vickers Project X which had fuel tanks where the AW's engines are and its own engines were built into the rear fuselage. It also lacked the 'sonic boom diffuser' nose probe that the AW designs had


----------



## Graeme (Oct 23, 2008)

Thanks Wayne. Wouldn't mind seeing your 3-view of the "M"-wing rocket.

In the meantime...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 23, 2008)

Looks a bit like an Ar 96. The wing fence is interesting. (I know it was tested on the Bf 109 prototypes with fences in place of slats) But the 3-bladed prop seems a bit out of place. 

The canopy and nose look like an Ar 96 though.


----------



## AMCKen (Oct 24, 2008)

Almost a Dornier 335 is my guess. Mini prototype? Been lurking for a while, now actually signed up. : )


----------



## AMCKen (Oct 24, 2008)

Noticed the Avro Lincoln in the background of that Supermarine 545.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Oct 24, 2008)

It looks to me more like a twin fork fighter. The dutch *Fokker D.XXIII *


----------



## Graeme (Oct 24, 2008)

AMCKen said:


> Almost a Dornier 335 is my guess. Mini prototype? Been lurking for a while, now actually signed up. : )



You got the "push-pull" part right  And welcome to the forum!  



Emilio Lafuente said:


> It looks to me more like a twin fork fighter. The dutch *Fokker D.XXIII *



Yes, it is Emilio.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 24, 2008)

The angle makes the boom-wing join look like a fence. I should have noticed the nose wheel.


----------



## Graeme (Oct 25, 2008)

Pressing on...


----------



## Waynos (Oct 25, 2008)

Now that is just pure evil


----------



## Graeme (Oct 26, 2008)

Same plane, with one engine installed...


----------



## AMCKen (Oct 27, 2008)

Graeme said:


> You got the "push-pull" part right  And welcome to the forum!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is Emilio.




Dang, looks so obvious now. And thanks.


----------



## Captain Dunsel (Oct 27, 2008)

Looks to me like the nose of a JU352, but with high-altitude windows. 

CD


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Oct 27, 2008)

This is the ill-fated *Renard R.35*

Renard R-25 , technique et construction


----------



## Captain Dunsel (Oct 27, 2008)

Well, it's still ugly enough to be related to a JU352! 

CD


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Oct 28, 2008)

Well.. She´s not so ugly after all.
http://www.fnar.be/html/R35/R-35.htm:o


----------



## kool kitty89 (Oct 28, 2008)

I rather like the looks of the Ju 252/352 too, theough the "tri-motor" configuration does look a bit awkward. (maybe 4x smaller or 2x larger engines on the wings)


----------



## Storch (Oct 28, 2008)

hello everybody!

Someone know this plane?





[/IMG]

Thanks!


----------



## Graeme (Oct 28, 2008)

Evening Storch!

Looks like the Ford 14-AT...


----------



## AMCKen (Oct 28, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Evening Storch!
> 
> Looks like the Ford 14-AT...



I found that photo also when looking for "pressurized tri-motor" for the previous Renard. : )


----------



## Storch (Oct 29, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Evening Storch!
> 
> Looks like the Ford 14-AT...



Thank you very much!


----------



## Graeme (Oct 29, 2008)

New one...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Oct 30, 2008)

Hi all,
This beautiful and streamlined French racing monoplane is the *Kellner-Béchereau 28VD*


----------



## Graeme (Oct 30, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hi all,
> This beautiful and streamlined French racing monoplane is the *Kellner-Béchereau 28VD*



Evening Emilio!

The odd thing is, I got that photo from an issue of "Wingspan" (May '95) and even they weren't exactly sure what it was! They printed the photos with the original captions translated and according to the caption the wings were, _"clad in 2mm thick *copper *sheet."_
I only recognised it from an entry in an Italian encyclopedia. Did they really paint it pink at both ends?!...






Trying to make it harder now...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Oct 30, 2008)

Hmmm.. Very clean design... Italian, perhaps?...


----------



## Graeme (Oct 30, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hmmm.. Very clean design... Italian, perhaps?...



French designed..made in Spain.


----------



## Grampa (Nov 19, 2008)

There hasent been any more picture's of unknow planes here for a while so I trou in a challenge here for you guy's, but I think you gonna guess it fast on this one.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Nov 19, 2008)

Hi all,

Long time since the last post, but no way to open this page, at least for me.

The front view bomber is a *Dornier Do.19*


----------



## Patoruzu (Nov 19, 2008)

Yes You ´re right to much time......

Emilio as always is right - Thats the General Weber´s dream The Ural Bomber
As they say after general Weber´s death, the germans change the plans of Weber for a strategic bomber force for Görings tactical medium dive bombers.


----------



## Old Wizard (Nov 20, 2008)

This one might be easy.


----------



## Waynos (Nov 20, 2008)

Thats the Avro Canada C-102 Jetliner, the first jet transport ever to fly on the American continent. It makes an interesting comparison with its British cousin the Avro Ashton.


----------



## Old Wizard (Nov 20, 2008)

You got it Waynos . The Canadian gov't told Avro to drop it and stick to building CF-100s.


----------



## Graeme (Nov 26, 2008)

New one...





Forgot to mention that the "Spanish" solution from above, with the clam-shell engine access panels, was the...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Nov 27, 2008)

Hi all,

I can assure you I have spent a lot of time searching for the 4/5 engined transport/bomber but to not avail. I would say French, or European, but I´m not sure. Could you, please, give us any clue??


----------



## Graeme (Nov 27, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Could you, please, give us any clue??



Sure. It's a 4-engine German aircraft. You mentioned the manufacturer in a post above. Here's another shot of it...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Nov 27, 2008)

Aha!!

Then, maybe the Dornier Do.K3. I knew the photo you showed as a clue, but I didn´t know she was a 4 engined aircraft!!

Thanks again, Graeme.


----------



## Graeme (Nov 28, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Then, maybe the Dornier Do.K3.



Certainly is Emilio!

Next one...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Nov 28, 2008)

It seems obvious it´s a British one, G-ABxx, but I can´t say if Blackburn, Boulton-Paul, Hawker, Westland or what...


----------



## Krabat42 (Nov 28, 2008)

I'm thinking Handley-Page...

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Nov 28, 2008)

I'll have to come "clean", the balanced turret wasn't standard. It was experimentally fitted to this aircraft...


----------



## Waynos (Nov 28, 2008)

Armstron Whitworth Atlas?


----------



## Graeme (Nov 28, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Armstron Whitworth Atlas?



Yep. An Armstrong Whitworth Atlas II (G-ABKE) testing an AWA designed manually-operated balanced gun turret in the thirties that was subsequently used on the Anson and early Whitleys.


----------



## Graeme (Nov 29, 2008)

Here's an interesting one...


----------



## BombTaxi (Nov 30, 2008)

Looks like the He162's little bro...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Dec 2, 2008)

No way to find


> Here's an interesting one...


I´m afraid I need more than some clues in this case...


----------



## Graeme (Dec 2, 2008)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> No way to find
> I´m afraid I need more than some clues in this case...



In that case Emilio it's probably not on the internet and clues won't help, so...

Looks like a mini-He162, but it was actually inspired by the Lockheed U-2. Two designers, Dick Hunt and Bob Hammer, recognised the potential of the U-2 for civilian purposes and hoped to provide a high altitude flying camera platform for photo/mapping missions.
Planned to have a ceiling of around 60,000ft and a potential climb rate of 15,000ft/min, it incorporated the wings of a Teledyne Ryan 147 drone, the nose gear of Mooney Mk 21 and a Learjet 24 nacelle inlet ring, the *Hunt HH-1 Zipper* was described as an “_unprecedented endeavour_.” Sadly, it crashed on August 15 1979, killing Hunt and the project.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Dec 2, 2008)

Thanks a lot again for letting us to know such rare birds, Graeme.


----------



## Krabat42 (Dec 2, 2008)

That's ol' Graeme. You can be sure he surprises you every time.  

By the way: Do you know how he could get out of the plane in case of an emergency? At least the He-162 had an ejection seat. Did the "Zipper" had one too? Or was it just a matter of opening a zipper on the bottom of the cockpit and fall away?  

Krabat


----------



## Waynos (Dec 2, 2008)

Here's an interesting image;


----------



## Krabat42 (Dec 3, 2008)

Whoa! Looks like a fake to me, maybe made with parts from a Grumman Tiger and a Vigilante, maybe even a Starfighter. Canopy from a Phantom. And where do the wheels retract? Though, If it's a fake, it's a very good one.

Krabat


----------



## Waynos (Dec 3, 2008)

Yeah, that was my first reaction too. However it is a genuine photo, and it doesn't use parts from other aircraft. But what is it? (neither is it my second guess, a movie prop!)


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 3, 2008)

Is it a mock-up?


----------



## Graeme (Dec 3, 2008)

Krabat42 said:


> Do you know how he could get out of the plane in case of an emergency?



I don't think Hunt did.  Don't know why they called it the "zipper", but HH-1 was from *H*unt and *H*ammer. 



Waynos said:


> But what is it? (neither is it my second guess, a movie prop!)



But you DO know? 
North American?
Is it "Above Top Secret?"



kool kitty89 said:


> Is it a mock-up?



Has to be. "Wheeled" out for the promo photo.


----------



## Waynos (Dec 3, 2008)

Yes Graeme, a mock up, wheeled out for a photo opportunity is exactly what it is. The question now is a mock up of what?

I got this picture ready to email to you when the site was down, but as we're back....

edit to add, there is a clue in the picture.


----------



## evangilder (Dec 3, 2008)

My gut tells me this has something to do with the TFX project.


----------



## evangilder (Dec 3, 2008)

Vought V-507J?


----------



## AMCKen (Dec 3, 2008)

"Looks like a mini-He162, but it was actually inspired by the Lockheed U-2. Two designers, Dick Hunt and Bob Hammer, recognised the potential of the U-2 for civilian purposes and hoped to provide a high altitude flying camera platform for photo/mapping missions.
Planned to have a ceiling of around 60,000ft and a potential climb rate of 15,000ft/min, it incorporated the wings of a Teledyne Ryan 147 drone, the nose gear of Mooney Mk 21 and a Learjet 24 nacelle inlet ring, the *Hunt HH-1 Zipper* was described as an “_unprecedented endeavour_.” Sadly, it crashed on August 15 1979, killing Hunt and the project. "

Here're some more along the same lines...

Accueil news

K


----------



## Waynos (Dec 3, 2008)

Yes thats right, the Vought V-507 was their proposal for the VFX requirement and, surprisingly for me, was designed with a large amount of help from Dassault and data from the Mirage G. Which might explain its resemblance to the AFVG. Looks almost believable on the photo doesn't it.


----------



## Graeme (Dec 4, 2008)

AMCKen said:


> Here're some more along the same lines...
> 
> Accueil news
> 
> K




Interesting site, thanks AMCKen.

Another fascinating design, that ended in the death of the designer.  

Australian...


----------



## Ome_Joop (Dec 4, 2008)

Something about that Vought V-507...

http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/adwg16ani.gif

http://www.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason_f/SD1L9vgs.pdf (slide 30)

Program VFX - Grumman F-14 Tomcat


----------



## Waynos (Dec 9, 2008)

If you're not going to tell us Graeme, do you mind if I stick a picure up? The annoying thing is I have seen that one before, or something very like it, but I have never known what it was called.


----------



## Graeme (Dec 9, 2008)

Waynos said:


> If you're not going to tell us



Nobody asked.  

The Ligeti Stratos...

Ligeti Stratos: World's first open source aircraft



Waynos said:


> do you mind if I stick a picure up?



Sure. Nice picture of the P.Z.L P.46 Sum (Sheat-fish)... 

PZL P.46 Sum - light bomber, attack


----------



## Waynos (Dec 10, 2008)

You mock me with the ease with which you got that one


----------



## Red Feniks (Dec 10, 2008)

Hi everyone, I'm a young 'boy' from Belgium but I'm interested in planes none the less  I don't quite remember how i got to this forum but i kinda like it here  anyway, thanks for all the awkward planes you guys posted here allready, I love searching on 'em myself  
Well, to make a long story a short one, here's my first entry:
Grtz, Red Feniks


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 10, 2008)

Its the Vaultee XP-54 "Swoose Goose"


----------



## Red Feniks (Dec 11, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Its the Vaultee XP-54 "Swoose Goose"



It's Vultee actually but correct 

I've got one for you I hope is gonna be a thougher nut to crack  enjoy it
(I've got another nice one ready here where I'm personally pretty proud of  but first this Japanese one, well yeah, it's pretty obvious it's Japanese..


----------



## Graeme (Dec 11, 2008)

Waynos said:


> You mock me with the ease with which you got that one



Never!  



Red Feniks said:


> I've got one for you



Aichi M6A Seiran.



Red Feniks said:


> I've got another nice one ready



Bring it on dude!


----------



## Red Feniks (Dec 11, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Never!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You guys are amazingly fast 
I'm gonna post it in an hour or so  cheers


----------



## Red Feniks (Dec 11, 2008)

Well, here it is, it's a little bit pre-war, but it stayed in service during ww 2  I'll tell you why i'm proud of this one when you've guessed what plane it is 
anyway, here it is and god I hope this one will take longer than an hour 
cheers


----------



## Glider (Dec 11, 2008)

Renhard R31? the only warplane totally designed in Belgium


----------



## Red Feniks (Dec 11, 2008)

Glider said:


> Renhard R31? the only warplane totally designed in Belgium



Guess I gave you to much hints by telling I was so proud of it eh? 
But yes correct, Renard R31  well done
It was an observation plane in service of the Belgian Air Force, built in 1932, and it was the only WWII operational aircraft entirely designed and built in Belgium. 
The plane, however, had poor handling and absolutely no aerobatic potential.
All R-31's (by my knowing) were lost in the war; shot down by German fighters or destroyed on ground by bombers. It had 2 machine guns (1 forward-firing and a flexible mount in back seat) but as I said, it never proved it's fighter capabilities (because it had none).
Greetz, Red Feniks, and I have an interesting one comming up soon


----------



## Red Feniks (Dec 11, 2008)

Aha, found what I was looking for 
A lot of credit to the guy who can tell me which plane this comes from:
(Very interesting landing gear)


----------



## Waynos (Dec 11, 2008)

Is it the Focke Wulf Fw 200 Condor? Thats what I think anyway.


----------



## Red Feniks (Dec 11, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Is it the Focke Wulf Fw 200 Condor? Thats what I think anyway.



I'm really no match for you guys, you're way to quick, so yes it's correct 
really astonished by your knowledge 
grtz


----------



## Old Wizard (Dec 11, 2008)

Let's trick him with some tail wheel pix.


----------



## Graeme (Dec 12, 2008)

Red Feniks said:


> god I hope this one will take longer than an hour



Difficult isn't it Red?!  Either find a very rare/obscure aircraft or show very little of the aircraft...


----------



## Glider (Dec 12, 2008)

Waco


----------



## Graeme (Dec 12, 2008)

Glider said:


> Waco



In the right direction "Glider". With the skin on...


----------



## Red Feniks (Dec 13, 2008)

That's the General Airborne Transport XCG-16 
greets


----------



## Graeme (Dec 13, 2008)

Red Feniks said:


> That's the General Airborne Transport XCG-16
> greets



Nicely done Red!


----------



## Graeme (Dec 14, 2008)

New one...


----------



## Flyboy2 (Dec 15, 2008)

Isn't that a Russian flying boat?... Shoot! Need to find the reference


----------



## Graeme (Dec 16, 2008)

German, FlyBoy2.


----------



## Waynos (Dec 16, 2008)

Is it a Dornier? It has the look of a miniature DoX


----------



## Graeme (Dec 16, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Is it a Dornier? It has the look of a miniature DoX



Yes it's Dornier, and yes it does look like a miniature DoX...


----------



## Red Feniks (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm thinking Dornier, but I can't really find the model...


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 16, 2008)

I thought it might be a Dornier aircraft. (still haven't found it though)

On a related note, I believe the Russian plane Flyboy2 was thinking of was the MBR-2.


----------



## A4K (Dec 17, 2008)

Dornier Libelle II ? ('Dragonfly 2') - I only have a photo of the -I, which looks a little different, but apparently the II was larger...


----------



## Graeme (Dec 17, 2008)

Do I hear "uncle"?


----------



## A4K (Dec 17, 2008)

In Hungarian that would be 'Bácsi'


----------



## Graeme (Dec 17, 2008)

A4K said:


> In Hungarian that would be 'Bácsi'



 

*Dornier Do-14*
_
"Designed as an experimental trans-ocean flying boat and ordered by the Deutsche Lufthansa, the Dornier Do-14 made its first flight on 10 August 1936 after a 5-year development phase. The all-metal Do-14 featured many unusual and innovative construction details. It was powered by two BMW VI engines buried in the fuselage centre, coupled by a two-speed gearbox and driving a single large-size three bladed pusher propeller mounted in a pylon on top of the wing. The propeller was driven by means of a large extension shaft. Also the cooling system was very unusual with the engine radiators buried into the upper surface of the wing. They were flush-fitted and hardly create any extra drag. In spite of its very modern layout, the cockpit was still open, although it would have been fully enclosed at later versions. During its extensive test period, the Do-14 was taken over by the rapid development in aeronautical engineering where engines were mounted in the front part of the wing using variable-pitch propellers. In fact, the Do-14 was already outdated when it flew and DLH soon lost interest in the project! Only one single Do-14 was manufactured and flown. As far as known it never flew with any registration although the civil registration D-AGON was assigned to this plane. The engines were dismounted in 1937 and the airframe was finally scrapped in 1939."_





German flying boats Part 2: 1935-2000


----------



## A4K (Dec 18, 2008)

Interesting looking bird, Graeme. Thanks for posting it!

Evan


----------



## v2 (Dec 19, 2008)

Here's a new one:


----------



## Waynos (Dec 19, 2008)

At last, I know one!

Its the aerial survey model of the PZL MD-12


----------



## v2 (Dec 19, 2008)

Very good Waynos!


----------



## Graeme (Dec 20, 2008)

This one has been posted before...





Belongs to this...


----------



## Trebor (Dec 21, 2008)

damn, it looks like a German plane o.o


----------



## Waynos (Dec 21, 2008)

Ah, thats the swiss EKW C.3603, or something very closely related.


----------



## runningdog (Dec 21, 2008)

Federal Aircraft Factory C-3605 Schlep? Swiss, late 1960's, a target tug to the best of my recollection.


----------



## Graeme (Dec 21, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Ah, thats the swiss EKW C.3603, or something very closely related.





runningdog said:


> Federal Aircraft Factory C-3605 Schlep? Swiss, late 1960's, a target tug to the best of my recollection.



Yep...

Federal Aircraft Factory C-3605 Schlepp - target-tug

Tough machine. The article mentions one that ditched in 1974 into Lake Lucerene. Three days in 20ft of water, it was recovered and flying again soon after.

New one. Easy one.


----------



## Waynos (Dec 21, 2008)

Aah, I will abstain from this one, but I will say, check out the old Jimmy Stewart movie 'No Highway in the Sky' for some very rare movie footage of this very prototype.


----------



## kool kitty89 (Dec 21, 2008)

I believe that's Gloster's Nene powered E.1/34 "Ace" with the second version of the tail. (later adopted by the Meteor F-8 )

I'm not sure why the Meteor was preferred, the "Ace" should have made an excelent single-seat fighter and possibly fighter-bomber, cleaner, smaller (less expensive), thinner wings, and considerably faster. (the 2-seat radar equipped Meteor would still be preferable in its role) Probably more competitive with the early Swept wing fighters than most other straight winged fighters, and probably all operational ones. (due in part to the thin wing)


----------



## Graeme (Dec 22, 2008)

Waynos said:


> Aah, I will abstain from this one, but I will say, check out the old Jimmy Stewart movie 'No Highway in the Sky' for some very rare movie footage of this very prototype.



I googled this film, but I don't remember it. Sounds good. Did the E.1/44 have a cameo role (RAE) or did it have a "starring" role?



kool kitty89 said:


> I believe that's Gloster's Nene powered E.1/34 "Ace" with the second version of the tail. (later adopted by the Meteor F-8)



Yep. Two tails were trialled...


----------



## Waynos (Dec 22, 2008)

A cameo role, but including a very nice close up! It was strange how the story presaged the real life story of the Comet just a few years later with a new airliner that had a fatal flaw through susceptibility metal fatigue. If only there really was a Farnborough boffin that had figured it out and was prepared to board G-ALYP and retract the undercart while it was still on the tarmac to stop it flying! Classic movie!.


----------



## Red Feniks (Dec 27, 2008)

Here's a new one, 
you guys know what this plane once was?
Don't let it fool you, look twice


----------



## Airframes (Dec 27, 2008)

Well the one in the foreground appears to be the hulk of a Brewster Buffalo, but I can't make out the rectangular sectioned centre section and wing of the one behind.


----------



## briyeo (Dec 29, 2008)

Airframes said:


> Well the one in the foreground appears to be the hulk of a Brewster Buffalo, but I can't make out the rectangular sectioned centre section and wing of the one behind.



Having just come across the exact same image online "Airframes" would appear to be correct, the caption reads
Belgian Brewster Buffalo wreckage at Darmstadt during the war. Maybe one of the 3 B-339's recieved out of the 40 ordered?
So did you mean the wreck in the background?

BTW Good to see this thread is still running, my son started this going way back in 2004, he's an old man now 

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/old-threads/aircraft-identification-thread-i-484.html


----------



## Airframes (Dec 29, 2008)

Thanks briyeo. BTW, I'm just across the border from you, in Cheshire.


----------



## Graeme (Jan 1, 2009)

Airframes said:


> Well the one in the foreground appears to be the hulk of a Brewster Buffalo



Totally agree Terry.











briyeo said:


> BTW Good to see this thread is still running, my son started this going way back in 2004, he's an old man now



I'm glad he started this thread. 

New one for 2009. If you can identify the gun, you should find the aircraft concerned...


----------



## Hesekiel (Jan 1, 2009)

What a terrible thing  
At the first look on the magazine it looks like an bofors AA Gun....


----------



## Captain Dunsel (Jan 1, 2009)

Looks like a Coventry Ordinance Works gun. Now, where'd they mount a COW?


----------



## Waynos (Jan 1, 2009)

Yeah, it does look like a COW, I've only seen such a gun on a couple of prototype fighters, but might it have been fitted to a Handley Page Hyderabad? Or a Vickers Virginia?


----------



## briyeo (Jan 1, 2009)

If it is the COW gun it seems the aircraft could be a Westland Westbury from 1926







But they seem to have tried one fitted to the Bristol Bagshot as well, but from what I read it didnt fly too well, serious structual problems. So it has to be the *Westland Westbury*


----------



## Graeme (Jan 1, 2009)

briyeo said:


> So it has to be the *Westland Westbury*



Very nice briyeo! Yep, the Westbury, scanned from an article (Aeroplane-August 1993) by Tony Williams on "Heavy Guns of the RAF". The caption describes the illustrations as an "artists' impressions", however my understanding is the Westbury was fitted with and fired the COW gun.


----------



## briyeo (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks to Captain Dunsel, I wouldn't have known what that gun was Im afraid.

Well I dont suppose this one will fox you for very long.


----------



## Graeme (Jan 2, 2009)

briyeo said:


> Well I dont suppose this one will fox you for very long.



Sorry briyeo, but it's illustrated in the same article. You found it while researching the COW?






New one.
What British jet does this belong to?...


----------



## Waynos (Jan 2, 2009)

Miles Sparrowjet Graeme?

This one is a bit different. If you like it I will do some more. This plane was built and flown, but by the time it was this picture was very much out of date, what was it called (and yes, it flew under the same name and designation)


----------



## Graeme (Jan 2, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Miles Sparrowjet



Yes indeed!



Waynos said:


> This plane was built and flown, but by the time it was this picture was very much out of date



Hmmm...an eight-engine civil flying boat? Original H-4 design? Did the number of engines change in the eventual design?


----------



## Waynos (Jan 2, 2009)

Yes, you've got it it. this was the first picture of the Hughes Hercules, published in 1944. How would you feel about some more 'what did I become' type images. any good?


----------



## Graeme (Jan 3, 2009)

Waynos said:


> How would you feel about some more 'what did I become' type images. any good?



Sounds fine to me Wayne. What I was trying to get at above was that if the original artists impression differs greatly from the completed design, this could be very difficult. I was starting to wonder if your image could have been an early design for the Saunders-Roe Princess, that changed with design improvements. Since the engine number didn't change, Hughes' monster remains a prime candidate. (Does that make any sense?).

Sorry, but this is all I could up with at the moment. The completed aircraft didn't look very different...


----------



## Waynos (Jan 3, 2009)

Well, it reminds me very much of the Breguet STOL transport 941 with the tail of the 940, which would explain the design evolution?

On the H-4, or HK-1, the number of engines is probably the only thing that stayed the same.


----------



## Graeme (Jan 3, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Well, it reminds me very much of the Breguet STOL transport 941 with the tail of the 940, which would explain the design evolution?



Too easy for you Wayne! Yeah, it was the original design for the Breguet 941 but it looked somewhat different to the completed version. The design staff at Breguet must have been very busy in the early sixties...





Very late here, too late to look for another "what did I become" attempt, so I'll toss this into the ring instead...


----------



## Airframes (Jan 4, 2009)

Just a quick stab... Blackburn Roc?


----------



## Waynos (Jan 4, 2009)

I think it looks like a Wirraway, or at least related to it?


----------



## Graeme (Jan 4, 2009)

Airframes said:


> Just a quick stab... Blackburn Roc?



Nice stab Terry! Missed vital organs but you certainly were thinking along the lines that I had intended. I was hoping that it looked like a Blackburn product and in fact I was originally going to post this image, but it kinda looked too obvious with the roundels, undercarriage layout and general outline...





...and being a sick bastard, I love "belly" shots and thought I found something similar that would fool the masses, but then along comes Wayne...



Waynos said:


> I think it looks like a Wirraway, or at least related to it?



Did you spot the Koala in the Eucalypt tree in the background?  

To finish it off all you need to do is google "Goddess of Agriculture."


----------



## Patoruzu (Jan 5, 2009)

Happy New Year for all

The australians, If I remember well, did a convertion from a Wirraway to a CROP DUSTER this was the CAC CA28 Ceres, isnt it?


----------



## Graeme (Jan 5, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> Happy New Year for all



You too Patoruzu!



Patoruzu said:


> CAC CA28 Ceres, isnt it?



It sure is!


----------



## Airframes (Jan 5, 2009)

You know, my first thoughts were along those lines. Then I thought, Nah! too easy, he wouldn't do that....!!
Bother!


----------



## Waynos (Jan 7, 2009)

Here's another belly shot then, before I try another early impression, anyone know?


----------



## Graeme (Jan 7, 2009)

Reid and Sigrist R.S.3 ?


----------



## Waynos (Jan 7, 2009)

Yes! Otherwise known as the Desford. BTW, don't you think the same company's RS.1 had the best name ever, and a completely made up word at that! 

Yes, I think that 'Snargasher' is well overdue for a revival 

This one might be a bot harder, or it might not. It is the first published representation of an aircraft that not only flew, but actually flew into action. What is it?


----------



## Graeme (Jan 7, 2009)

A Hawker product?


----------



## Graeme (Jan 7, 2009)

Nope, *Westland*. Since the advertisement appeared in 45/46 then quite possibly an early artists' impression of the *Wyvern*...


----------



## Waynos (Jan 8, 2009)

You're a star Graeme! It is remarkable how many of the artist impressions that appeared in the editorial pages of Flight in those days had appeared in adverts first, this is only one of many examples that appeared in the companies advert at least a week before the editorial pages caught up. Mind you, in those days British aircraft were often not publiscised at all until actually in service or abandoned. for instance Flight published pictures of the He 280, Me 262, He 162, Ar 234, Caproni-Campini CC 2, P-59A and P-80 before any pictures of the Meteor or even the E28/39 were allowed to be printed!


----------



## Graeme (Jan 9, 2009)

Waynos said:


> How would you feel about some more 'what did I become' type images?



Finding them a little difficult to come by Wayne, but I'll keep looking.

This was built, but the production aircraft looked very different...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jan 9, 2009)

Hi all,

I am in Vietnam now cycling all around Vietnam and Laos, more than 2000 Kms. already and counting... that is the reason I can not dedicate time to this forum, but now at a glance...
*Vickers Wellington* bomber??


----------



## Waynos (Jan 9, 2009)

Yes Emilio, that is the Vickers B.9/32 which went into production much redesigned, as the Wellington.


----------



## Graeme (Jan 9, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> *Vickers Wellington* bomber??





Waynos said:


> Vickers B.9/32



Nice combined effort! And Emilo, identification while riding a bicycle? That's gotta be a first!  

I guess this is a hybrid of sorts? It started out as a little private twin aircraft until they made it 'swallow' a 10ft by 5ft diameter pressurised capsule. Story please...


----------



## Red Feniks (Jan 11, 2009)

briyeo said:


> Having just come across the exact same image online "Airframes" would appear to be correct, the caption reads
> Belgian Brewster Buffalo wreckage at Darmstadt during the war. Maybe one of the 3 B-339's recieved out of the 40 ordered?
> So did you mean the wreck in the background?
> 
> ...



sorry to repond to this one so late, i've been out for a while, but yes totally correct and i didn't even knew what the one in the background was but it's appears to be correct :d , annyway i'm back in play 
cheers


----------



## Graeme (Jan 12, 2009)

This one from above...





...was the GAL.41, a grossly modified Monospar Universal designed to explore pressurisation issues. It flew in 1939 becoming Britain's first aircraft to be fitted with a pressure cabin. It was also hoped by GAL to assist them in their pressurised airliner design, the GAL.40...


----------



## Marcel (Jan 15, 2009)

Okay, this one?


----------



## Waynos (Jan 15, 2009)

I thought Graeme's looked like a monospar, but obviously not enough to say so.

This one however I think I do recognize, I'm pretty sure that spindly rear end belongs to a Curtiss Wright CW-21, Except the fin looks different to what I would expect?


----------



## Marcel (Jan 16, 2009)

It's actually a CW-21B, with retractable tailwheel. Probably why the tail looks different.


----------



## Graeme (Jan 17, 2009)

Bomber-transports. (The bottom one performed bombing missions during WWII).
What are their names?...


----------



## A4K (Jan 17, 2009)

Vickers Vimy and Vanguard the first two, last one possibly Valentia(?)


----------



## Graeme (Jan 17, 2009)

A4K said:


> Vickers Vimy and Vanguard the first two, last one possibly Valentia(?)



G'day Evan. Good Answers!

In descending order...
VERNON (Developed from the Vimy Commercial)
VICTORIA (The Vanguard was a one off civil aircraft)
VALENTIA

They all look a little similar.

All being employed by the RAF, so any civil impostors should be discounted, such as the Vimy Commercial and Vanguard. However the drawing of the Valentia could be misleading? From what I've read one of the improvements from the Victoria class was a tail wheel instead of a tail skid?


----------



## A4K (Jan 18, 2009)

G'day Graeme!

I have very little info on them, hence the 'close guesses, but not quite rights'!

Re the valentia, according to my info ( from 'Flugzeug Typen Der Welt' published by Bechtermünz verlag, 1999) "the success of the Victoria Mk VI resulted in orders for new aircraft with this engine (- Bristol Pegasus IIL3), and 28 examples were built under the name Type 264 Valentia. 
In addition 54 Victoria aircraft were refitted to Valentia standard and redesignated as such, a small number of aircraft converted with Bristol Pegasus IIM3 engines receiving the same designation.
The RAF had over 60 Valentias by the outbreak of the second world war, of which many remained in service till 1941, two machines even serving in Irak until May 1944"

Maybe the remods explain the tail wheel /skid differences ?


----------



## Graeme (Jan 19, 2009)

A4K said:


> In addition *54 Victoria aircraft were refitted to Valentia* standard and redesignated as such, a small number of aircraft converted with Bristol Pegasus IIM3 engines receiving the same designation.
> 
> Maybe the remods explain the tail wheel /skid differences ?



You're right Evan. Sounds like a line from a Harry Potter movie but..."only a *true* Valentia has a castoring tailwheel."  The Valentia in the post above is J8231 and was a converted Victoria that served with 216 Squadron and eventually sold to the Indian Government.

Tailwheel Valentias started with K3599 and ended with K8852, twenty eight in all, as you stated.

New one...


----------



## Graeme (Jan 22, 2009)

Graeme said:


> New one...



It was the...

Zmaj R-1


----------



## Waynos (Jan 22, 2009)

I had no idea, at all, I'm losing my touch


----------



## Waynos (Jan 22, 2009)

This tactical military transport, possibly the first ever with modern style rear loading ramp+doors, was supposed to be in production when reported in Flight, it wasn't, but was was it called?


----------



## Airframes (Jan 22, 2009)

Looks a bit like an Airspeed Ambassador, a civil airliner, but with a deeper tail section. Presumably that's the loading ramp/doors.


----------



## AMCKen (Jan 22, 2009)

Graeme said:


> It was the...
> 
> Zmaj R-1



Fuselage brings to mind the P-61 center section.


----------



## Graeme (Jan 22, 2009)

Waynos said:


> This tactical military transport, possibly the first ever with modern style rear loading ramp+doors, was supposed to be in production when reported in Flight, it wasn't, but was was it called?



Hmmm..I smell a trick here Wayne.  It just looks too obvious as the Ambassador. If it was designed to be a "tactical military transport" then it flew as one, but it didn't look like this?

Then this must rule out the Ambassador as it was always intended (from what I've read) to be a post-war civil airliner with double the capacity (passengers) of the DC-3.

Avro (early York design?) Blackburn (there were twin engine designs for the Beverly?) Or should I just start wiping the egg off my face now?...


----------



## Waynos (Jan 23, 2009)

Airframes and Graeme, I suppose I'll have to end it now. Yes, it does look like the Ambassador, because it was based on the same core design at the same time, 1944. The Ambassador was Arthur Hagg's Brabazon airliner offering, this, with a different, fatter, fuselage and rear loading ramp but the same wings, engines and tail (Avro York fashion) was his intended replacemenr for the RAF's Dakota's, the Ayrshire.

Reported in Flight in 1945 as 'now in production for the RAF', this was wishful thinking as it never progressed beyond mock up stage as the end of the war saw the contract terminated and Airspeed pressed on at full speed with the Ambassador instead.


----------



## Airframes (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanks for that. I hadn't realised it started as a military requirement. The Ambassador is close to my heart, as they were the main type at Newcastle Airport when I was a young 'spotter', doing anything to get near to aircraft. They were the ex BEA 'Elizabethan' class aircraft, operated by BKS and, of course, always refered to as the 'Lizzie'. Very nice looking aeroplane.


----------



## Graeme (Jan 23, 2009)

Maybe I'm blinded by the egg but isn't it the other way round? It was always designed to be an airliner with the Ayrshire as an afterthought? Or do the sequential design numbers not necessarily follow chronologically?

From a John Stroud article...


----------



## Waynos (Jan 24, 2009)

Yes, the numbers do follow chronologically, Graeme. What I probably didn't write very clearly was that the Ambassador and Ayrshire were deliberately designed at the same time from a common root airframe design (hence the identical wings tail, engines etc).

Hagg drew his brabazon airliner first but he had both models in mind from the start, which is why the Ambassadors shape is so suited to a rough field military transport with its high wing and low floor. Alternative schemes with piston and turboprop power, both with 2 and 4 engines, were created for both models while still at the design stage too, hence the numbering. The Ambassador 2 with 2 RR Darts and a stretch for 8 more passengers came out of these studies but the only turbine powered model to fly was the Eland powered development prototype.






The AS.66 and 67 were not military transports, as in the article, they were civil freighter versions of the Ayrshire. The final scheme was a larger 4x Proteus stretched Ambassador designed as the AS.68. Another curiosity was a 'mini-Ambassaor', the AS.64, which was intended to be competitive with the DH Dove for the Brabazon 5b requirement.


----------



## Graeme (Jan 24, 2009)

Thanks Wayne, for the detailed summary. 

Here's how my confusion and doubts arose...

I managed to find the article with the photo you posted. The date is listed as September 12 1946. At this stage the Ayrshire is described only as a *model* and a "militarised version of the Ambassador"... 

armstrong whitworth | 1946 | 1785 | Flight Archive

...and since the first flight of the Ambassador was only 10 months away I guessed that Airspeed must have already been in the process of construction. This is backed up by an advertisement appearing in Janes 45/46 (which some doubt!) with the line.."Designed and now under construction". Therefore I concluded, incorrectly, that the AS.60 couldn't have been a concurrent design as...
A) the Brabazon Type IIA request did not involve military transports, and
B) was still in the model phase by end of 1946.

Brabazon Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





It obviously went through a lot of design changes, as you mentioned, before reaching a 47/49 passenger format. I've read that Airspeeds' slow production rate and failure to develop the turboprop version saved the Vickers Viscount from obscurity.


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## Waynos (Jan 24, 2009)

Good stuff Graeme, thanks. Yes, by that time the Ambassador was well known (those ads had appeared in Flight too) and although the Air Ministry had dropped its interest in the Ayrshire already (as opposed to the claim) Airspeed were hoping to attract foreign sales (and fund the civil models of it too) hence the displaying of the model at Radlett in '46 (this was the forerunner of the Farnborough Show, which began in 1948).


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## Waynos (Jan 24, 2009)

Here's one thats a bit different to go at, pretty, isn't she;


----------



## Graeme (Jan 24, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Here's one thats a bit different to go at, pretty, isn't she;



I can see light between plane and ground, so no "secret paper project" here.  

The Ilyushin Il-102...

Ilyushin Il-102 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Storch (Jan 25, 2009)

Hello everybody!!

Some one know this plane please?






Thank you!


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## paaln (Jan 25, 2009)

Dutch. Werkspoor Jumbo. 1929. Their only attempt at aircraft making.

Translated via google translate tool:
Translated version of http://www.airwar.ru/enc/cw1/jumbo.html


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## Graeme (Jan 25, 2009)

Nice work paaln!

Built but not flown (So I've read)...


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## Waynos (Jan 25, 2009)

Looks reminiscent of a Tsybin design, but I can't remeber which one I'm thinking of, duh!

I'll come back, unless I'm completely wrong when I do find it, lol


----------



## Storch (Jan 25, 2009)

paaln said:


> Dutch. Werkspoor Jumbo. 1929. Their only attempt at aircraft making.
> 
> Translated via google translate tool:
> Translated version of http://www.airwar.ru/enc/cw1/jumbo.html




Ok thank you very much!Best weshes!


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## Graeme (Jan 25, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Looks reminiscent of a Tsybin design, but I can't remeber which one I'm thinking of, duh!
> 
> I'll come back, unless I'm completely wrong when I do find it, lol



That's good enough for me Wayne. Yep, a Tsybin it is. The Tsybin RSR R-020 with wing tip R-11F jet engines. Three were completed but never flown?


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## Waynos (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks Graeme, The info I have says three possibly completed with ten more in manufacture but definitely never flown.


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## Graeme (Jan 27, 2009)

Yet another "built but not flown"...


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## Storch (Jan 27, 2009)

Hello it's me again!

Do some one can tell me what's this airplane (I'm not sure that we can already call that a airplane ) I founed in Airliner:

Photos: Unknown Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Apparently I may be Russian...Thank you !!


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## A4K (Jan 28, 2009)

Graeme's looks like a variation on the Sikorsky Ilya Muromets bomber..?


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## Graeme (Jan 28, 2009)

A4K said:


> looks like a variation on the Sikorsky Ilya Muromets bomber..?



G'day Evan. You're certainly in the right time frame but this monster is the British AD Type 1 No.1000 Floatplane. The 'Greenhouse' nacelle (in the 'Gun Machine' version) was intended to carry a 12-pounder naval gun which could be depressed 38 degrees to the horizontal and 49 degrees above. The plan was to attack Zeppelins from above and fire shells at warships whilst circling them. The No.1000 version was the torpedo bomber version, carrying an 18 inch Mk.VII long range torpedo but it never flew and was broken up in 1916 at Felixstowe.

It was the brainchild of "eccentric" engineer Harris Booth and manufactured by Samuel White Co. Ltd. in 1915.








Storch said:


> Hello it's me again!
> 
> Do some one can tell me what's this airplane (I'm not sure that we can already call that a airplane ) I founed in Airliner:
> 
> ...



Storch, that looks like a distorted (time travel can do that) Yak-18 trapped in the "Time Tunnel."...


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## Storch (Jan 29, 2009)

Yes I think to that it could be a customized Yak but nothing else about this time tunel .

Thank you!


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## Waynos (Jan 29, 2009)

Interesting. Lockheed proposed a jet airliner with that wing design (referred to by a 'Flight' writer at the time as the 'flying bog seat') in the 1980's but I had never seen an actual plane with it before. Did it actually fly?


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## Storch (Jan 29, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Interesting. Lockheed proposed a jet airliner with that wing design (referred to by a 'Flight' writer at the time as the 'flying bog seat') in the 1980's but I had never seen an actual plane with it before. Did it actually fly?



I don't think so and I'm not sure that it flew at least once !


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## Grampa (Feb 3, 2009)

Witch plane is it that the pilots who have flyed in combat got called for have "guaranteed varnished coffin"?


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## paaln (Feb 3, 2009)

LaGG-3 (Lakirovanny Garantirovanny Grob  )


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## Grampa (Feb 3, 2009)

Gratz! You are the vinner


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## Waynos (Feb 3, 2009)

Oooh, and I always assumed the La in LaGG was short for Lavotchkin! You live and learn.


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## Krabat42 (Feb 4, 2009)

Well, it was. But no pilot calls his plane an "aircraft". It's a crate, a bird, a "Mühle" and sometimes a flying coffin. 

By the way, LaGG = Lavotchkin, Gorbunov and Gudkov.

Krabat


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## AMCKen (Feb 4, 2009)

See:
Lavochkin-Gorbunov-Goudkov LaGG-3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The novel, wood-laminate construction of the aircraft continued to be poor quality (as with its predecessor) and pilots joked that rather than being an acronym of the designers' names (Lavochkin, Gorbunov, and Goudkov) "LaGG" stood for lakirovanny garantirovanny grob ("guaranteed varnished coffin" - лакированный гарантированный гроб)."


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## Krabat42 (Feb 10, 2009)

Looks like we need a new one. Here is it. We are looking for the name of the guy:













Krabat


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## Graeme (Feb 11, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> Looks like we need a new one. Here is it. We are looking for the *name of the guy*:



Hans Grade...

Hans Grade
The Pioneers : An Anthology : Hans Grade (1879 - 1946)

(How are you Krabat!? Changing nappies/diapers yet?)


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## Krabat42 (Feb 11, 2009)

If nobody has an idea, ask Graeme.  Yes, Grade is correct. And he was the owner of the german pilot license No. 2 (which is the "grade Zahl" (even number). No. 1 was August Euler.

Borkheide

Startseite - hans-grade.de und Hans Grade Gesellschaft e.V. Borkheide



> (How are you Krabat!? Changing nappies/diapers yet?)



The little Krabat-boy will come in July, so there's still time to muse upon the eternal questions of life, universe and Aircraft Identification V.  A few weeks ago we moved to a new appartment and it's still a lot of work to do. It's less than week now that I got my internet connection and this evening I'll have some very hungry people (including good ol' Thunderbolt-Chris) for dinner. Looks like I have to watch my beer stock.  

Krabat


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## Waynos (Feb 11, 2009)

This ones at a funny angle.


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## Captain Dunsel (Feb 11, 2009)

Tarrant Tabor...What do you mean, we need upthrust?

CD


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## Waynos (Feb 11, 2009)

Excellent! I thought its unusual stance may make it harder than that


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## Krabat42 (Feb 12, 2009)

I thought this stance was usual for the Tabor.  

Krabat


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## Krabat42 (Feb 12, 2009)

And another one: The man, not the machine.





Krabat


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## Graeme (Feb 12, 2009)

Not sure Krabat, but is he Otto Von Hagunberg, pictured at left?...





(Is it a Fw-44?)


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## Krabat42 (Feb 17, 2009)

Nope. It's a German and he was german and world aerobatics champion in the 1930's. The picture was made in 1936 and it's NOT in Berlin. 8) 

Krabat


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## Krabat42 (Feb 18, 2009)

Nobody? O.K. Another hint: His name is somewhat connected to the german helicopter development.

Krabat


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## Patoruzu (Feb 19, 2009)

Ewald Rohlfs?


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## Krabat42 (Feb 19, 2009)

Nope. O.K. last hint: He developed knew aerobatics figures, for example a kind of clover leaf, held a record for inverted flight and even flew for one hour inverted over London in 1930.

Krabat


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## Patoruzu (Feb 19, 2009)

Sorry it was simplier!

Gerd Achgelis!!?


----------



## Patoruzu (Feb 19, 2009)

Here a picture


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## Krabat42 (Feb 20, 2009)

Yepp, Gerd Achgelis. Aaahhh... the Golden Age of Flight. Where all men were heros, all women were extremely good looking and small green men from Alpha Centauri were small, smelly and... well, green of course.

Krabat


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## carson1934 (Feb 20, 2009)

above pic is a french jet "Grognard" was her nickname
Carson1934


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## v2 (Feb 23, 2009)

an interesting one...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Feb 24, 2009)

Hi all,

Very interesting photo of a soviet fighter: the *Tupolev Tu-1*

Tupolev ANT-63P (Tu-1) - night fighter


----------



## v2 (Feb 24, 2009)

Yeap, you are right Emilio!


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 25, 2009)

Form this angle, not bad, Emilio.

And here's another one:





Krabat


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## carson1934 (Feb 25, 2009)

Graeme said:


>


referring to page 81.
The pictured aircraft is a Bolkhovitinov S Sparka produced in 1940.
Sorry for the late referral but I'm an old man amusing himself with identifications
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Feb 25, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> I thought this stance was usual for the Tabor.
> 
> Krabat


Krabat you are a senior member can you help me?
I'm looking for different pictures (other than the one usually 
available with the gaudy livery) of the Kalinin K-12.
Thanks for your help
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Feb 25, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> And here's another one:



G'day Krabat! Heinkel He-5...

Heinkel He 5 - floatplane


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 26, 2009)

Yepp, He-5 is correct. I was looking for a He-6 picture but couldn't find one. So I thought a swedish He-5 would do.  

@carson1934: Well, my member is definitely senior but I'm anything else than a senior member here.  

I will see what I can find in my sources, I remember an old book about soviet aircraft (from my past in the GDR), it had a picture of the K-12, I'm sure. I will try to find it in my boxes (still lots of them there because I moved to a new appartment lately) but this may take a while. Also it's probably heavily retouched but we'll see.

Krabat


----------



## carson1934 (Feb 26, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> Yepp, He-5 is correct. I was looking for a He-6 picture but couldn't find one. So I thought a swedish He-5 would do.
> 
> @carson1934: Well, my member is definitely senior but I'm anything else than a senior member here.
> 
> ...


thanks very much Krabat I'm looking forward to it...besides your quote about your member is very clever.
Viele Gruesse aus Italien
[/I]


----------



## Krabat42 (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks, Carson. I read a lot of english books (Terry Pratchett, Joseph Heller, Frank Herbert, Harry Harrison, Michael Frayn etc.) and this way you learn a lot more about a language than if you only read books about aircraft. The latter are mostly written to be understood by people who speak other languages, you wont find much puns or linguistic jokes there, but a wise man once said, you haven't understood a language before you understood those. (Well, I still have a lot to learn about grammar.) And, by the way, it's very satisfying too understand puns and jokes in a foreign language. They wont be able to make fun of you if you understand them.  

Krabat

Edit: O.K. Got a new one. And I also want the name of the pilot.


----------



## carson1934 (Feb 26, 2009)

v2 said:


> I have another one for you:


Dear V2
I have a good time going through old threads of this forum and I don't know whether this pic was ever identified.
In my opinion this is an AE MB-1 "Bombi" an argentinian aircraft of the thirties I believe.
All the best to Poland
carson1934


----------



## v2 (Feb 27, 2009)

Dear Carson,

about which post you are talking? 

And all the best to Italy of course! I spent a wonderful time in Italy last year...


----------



## carson1934 (Feb 28, 2009)

v2 said:


> Dear Carson,
> 
> about which post you are talking?
> 
> And all the best to Italy of course! I spent a wonderful time in Italy last year...



Dear V2
please forgive me I'm just a stupid old man. In one of the old threads of this forum I came across the argentinian "Bombi" aircraft and this post originated from you. However I forgot the page of the forum it is in!
All the best 
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 1, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> Thanks, Carson. I read a lot of english books (Terry Pratchett, Joseph Heller, Frank Herbert, Harry Harrison, Michael Frayn etc.) and this way you learn a lot more about a language than if you only read books about aircraft. The latter are mostly written to be understood by people who speak other languages, you wont find much puns or linguistic jokes there, but a wise man once said, you haven't understood a language before you understood those. (Well, I still have a lot to learn about grammar.) And, by the way, it's very satisfying too understand puns and jokes in a foreign language. They wont be able to make fun of you if you understand them.
> 
> Krabat
> 
> Edit: O.K. Got a new one. And I also want the name of the pilot.



Dear Krabat
I have closely examined picture in question and I'm sorry I cannot identify the floatplane. All I can say is that the aircraft has landed in a beautiful alpine lake (swiss or austrian?) carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 1, 2009)

Graeme said:


> You're just jealous Krabat! Besides we drink 'tea'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dear Graeme,
very pleased of seeing Bert Hinkler's picture in your post of 2-28-2008 # 1531. Bert Hinkler died in a plane crash on Jan.7th 1933 (he was aged 40) in the mountains near my city Arezzo (that's about 80 kms from Florence) while flying on his way to Australia (he was caught in a severe storm). Not long ago I visited his grave which is at "Cimitero degli Allori" just outside Florence city centre. In case someone might want to lay a flower on his forlorn grave these are location details of his grave at above cemetery: 2PPsSQ1 23s.
For your information I visited NZ many times and I still have excellent friends over there
carson1934
PS Sorry if I make mistakes but I just joined and am still largely unaware of the functions of this forum


----------



## AMCKen (Mar 1, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> referring to page 81.
> The pictured aircraft is a Bolkhovitinov S Sparka produced in 1940.
> Sorry for the late referral but I'm an old man amusing himself with identifications
> carson1934



Looks like the EKW C-3605.


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 2, 2009)

> All I can say is that the aircraft has landed in a beautiful alpine lake (swiss or austrian?)



Ahh, far far away. Not even Europe. It's the Bay of Ushuaia. The registration of the plane is german and it's double bad luck. maybe this helps.  

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Mar 2, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> O.K. Got a new one. And I also want the name of the pilot.



Thanks for the clues Krabat! I was thinking mirrors but finally the penny dropped - Double unlucky = 1313 and I was certain that the word HEINKEL is just discernible under the exhausts.

So...*Gunther Pluschow* in his *Heinkel HD 24* named TSINGTAU...



 



carson1934 said:


> For your information I visited NZ many times and I still have excellent friends over there



G'day Carson! Thanks for the Hinkler information, saddened to hear that the grave site is "forlorn." (Incidentally I live West of NZ...Australia). 

New one...


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 2, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Thanks for the clues Krabat! I was thinking mirrors but finally the penny dropped - Double unlucky = 1313 and I was certain that the word HEINKEL is just discernible under the exhausts.
> 
> So...*Gunther Pluschow* in his *Heinkel HD 24* named TSINGTAU...
> 
> ...



Hello Graeme!
Good to know you are an aussie....What got me mixed up was the flag below your avatar...kiwi and aussie flags are much alike...Incidentally I was lucky enough to visit Australia on business at least twenty times over the last fifteen years.
I don't know what is the aircraft name of your picture...it looks pretty much british to me...
carson1934


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 2, 2009)

> So...Gunther Pluschow in his Heinkel HD 24 named TSINGTAU...


 Correct, Graeme. I knew it was a tough one.

I didn't know Plueschow until a few months ago when he showed up during my work. Several people were asking for material for an exhibition. I even have a coloured three-side-view of his HD 24 somewhere...

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Mar 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Good to know you are an aussie....What got me mixed up was the flag below your avatar...kiwi and aussie flags are much alike...Incidentally I was lucky enough to visit Australia on business at least twenty times over the last fifteen years.



Easily done! What did you do for a living that got you travelling all over the world?



carson1934 said:


> I don't know what is the aircraft name of your picture...it looks pretty much british to me...
> carson1934



European but not British.


----------



## Waynos (Mar 2, 2009)

German european or Dutch european? I was thinking Henschel 124 but the tail looks wrong


----------



## Graeme (Mar 2, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Dutch european?



Yep! Not many to choose from now, eh?


----------



## Waynos (Mar 2, 2009)

Not many. There's the Fokker T.V, and the er.........T.9


----------



## Graeme (Mar 2, 2009)

Waynos said:


> T.9



That's the one!


----------



## Waynos (Mar 2, 2009)

Here's a picture I've just been looking at;


----------



## Graeme (Mar 2, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Here's a picture I've just been looking at;



The original open cockpit version of the Bristol Type 133 F.7/30.


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 3, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Easily done! What did you do for a living that got you travelling all over the world?
> Hi Graeme,
> I have been a travelling salesman for thirtyfive years selling jewellery both in Europe and overseas (especially Australia New Zealand and Singapore)
> 
> ...


I was also thinking of a Fokker but then a small drawer in my mind suggested that it might be british.....no luck this time, maybe the next


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 3, 2009)

Try this:


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 3, 2009)

Can you identify this old aircraft?


----------



## Waynos (Mar 3, 2009)

Graeme, obviously spot on, I still have the Big Book of Bristols laying on my desk from our conversation the other day. Maybe I'll swap it for the one I have on Handley Page instead.


----------



## Graeme (Mar 3, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Graeme, obviously spot on, I still have the Big Book of Bristols laying on my desk from our conversation the other day. Maybe I'll swap it for the one I have on *Handley Page* instead.



Yep! See below. 



Emilio Lafuente said:


> Try this:



Handley Page HP 21



carson1934 said:


> Can you identify this old aircraft?



An ANBO of some description? (Based on your 'unlogged in' file name! )


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 4, 2009)

You are right Graeme, the british one is the *Type S* of Handey Page, and the one Carson proposed is the lithuanian *ANBO I*


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 4, 2009)

Found this while searching for the one in #2740. What is it?





Krabat


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 4, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> Found this while searching for the one in #2740. What is it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's a Tupolev ANT31 or I-14 of 1933
Is it right Krabat? 

P.S. How can you insert russian letters (cyrillic) in this message box, any idea?:


----------



## Graeme (Mar 4, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> Found this while searching for the one in #2740. What is it?



Krabat, it looks like Sukhoi I-14 (ANT-31). 

(*EDIT:* Sorry Carson, just noticed your correct answer above!)

Sukhoi designed but manufactured by Tupolev?...



 



Emilio Lafuente said:


> the british one is the *Type S* of Handey Page



G'day Emilio! Rested up from Vietnam yet?  Handley Page S as in HPS-1 which was delivered to the USA? Is there a way to recognise the difference between them? Thanks.








New one. A clue? The "Alpine Attacker"...


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 4, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> View attachment 85631
> 
> Try this:



Too difficult for me, Emilio, sorry!
carson1934


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 4, 2009)

Hi Graeme, yes, already rested from the Vietnam tour. The Alpine attacker is the *FFA P-16 * with a retractable MATRA launcher for 44 x 68-mm folding-fin rockets.


----------



## Graeme (Mar 4, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hi Graeme, yes, already rested from the Vietnam tour. The Alpine attacker is the *FFA P-16 * with a retractable MATRA launcher for 44 x 68-mm folding-fin rockets.



Yep! Too big a clue!?  

Okay, no clues this time...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 4, 2009)

Hello Graeme, I´m not sure but, maybe a *Portsmouth Aerocar Major *??

Yes, that is:
flight advertisements | aerocar major | pdf archive | 1946 | 1827 | Flight Archive


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 4, 2009)

Here it comes another one, very easy this time to guess the nationality, but I hope not so easy to find out the actual airplane...


----------



## Krabat42 (Mar 4, 2009)

The Yak-200:

Yakovlev Yak-200 - reconnaissance, spotting aircraft

Krabat


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 4, 2009)

I have been harassed for quite some time by the identification of following U.S. trainer. Can somebody help me out?


----------



## tomo pauk (Mar 4, 2009)

Curtiss O-52 Owl perhaps?


----------



## Graeme (Mar 4, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hello Graeme, I´m not sure but, maybe a *Portsmouth Aerocar Major *??



Nice!



tomo pauk said:


> Curtiss O-52 Owl perhaps?



Certainly is.

Next...


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 5, 2009)

tomo pauk said:


> Curtiss O-52 Owl perhaps?



Thanks Pauk I believe you are quite right
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 5, 2009)

I have a plan of an argentinian trainer FMA-21. Is there anybody who might come up with a real pic? See attachment.
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 5, 2009)

can anyone identify this early jet with czech markings?


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 5, 2009)

sorry it won't upload!


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 5, 2009)

Hello Graeme,

I´d need some help to find out the biplane in #2756


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 5, 2009)

I have finally been able to upload the mystery plane. It looks like a ME-262. But why czech markings?8) 8)


----------



## A4K (Mar 5, 2009)

It's an Avia S-92 (Czech produced Me 262A-2A). Me 262B aircraft were known as CS-92.

Avia S-92


----------



## Patoruzu (Mar 5, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I have a plan of an argentinian trainer FMA-21. Is there anybody who might come up with a real pic? See attachment.
> carson1934



U get it!
It was a home built variant of the NA 34 trainer with retractable landing gear!


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 5, 2009)

A4K said:


> It's an Avia S-92 (Czech produced Me 262A-2A). Me 262B aircraft were known as CS-92.
> 
> Avia S-92



Thanks very much A4K.
Could you help me also with my post #2758?
carson1934


----------



## Patoruzu (Mar 5, 2009)

It was the forerunner of the ia22 Dl - from wich one still exist in the national Air Force Museum

Look at that -http://aeronavesendetalle.blogspot.com/2008/09/fma-iae-22-dl-ea-701.html


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 5, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> U get it!
> It was a home built variant of the NA 34 trainer with retractable landing gear!



Thanks very much Patoruzu. I'm very indebted to you indeed!
carson1934


----------



## Patoruzu (Mar 5, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its British and possibly an Hawker.. Hardy from the first series??
The landing gear is not hawker type!!

Sorry the machine gun is not british - poss. US

Its can be a linear engine variant of a Douglas O2MC


----------



## Graeme (Mar 5, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> Its can be a linear engine variant of a Douglas O2MC



Close enough Patoruzu! Here's the tail with the answer written on it. Hence the reason for not uploading it! the Douglas O-25C with the Prestone-cooled Conqueror.
(By the way, thanks for the FMA-21 image!).





(Maybe I should have asked a long time ago, would you prefer not to see line drawings in this thread? Just photos?)


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 6, 2009)

I was convinced the biplane was of British origin.... 
Well, another one for you...


----------



## Graeme (Mar 6, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Well, another one for you...



The Kazan UPB,

Kazan Aviation Institute UPB - trainer

And one for you...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 6, 2009)

Hi Graeme,
I hoped in vain the soviet monoplane to be quite difficult to find, but you demostrate again to be too much clever... Anyway the source I used was in Cirillyc and the caption said: *Moskalev-Itskovich KAI-1*
The one for me I think it´s a *Hispano Aviación HA-200 Saeta*, arrow in English.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 6, 2009)

Well, I hope sincerely that the next one maintain you busy for a time longer...


----------



## Storch (Mar 6, 2009)

Its an Ikarus!I don't remember the exact name but i'm sur that Graeme will give us the complet name =)!


----------



## v2 (Mar 6, 2009)

It is Ikarus "Orkan", Storch.


----------



## v2 (Mar 6, 2009)

next one...


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 6, 2009)

v2 said:


> next one...



that's a hard nut to crack V2...
On the other hand I knew post #2773 but both Storch and you got there first!


----------



## Graeme (Mar 6, 2009)

v2 said:


> next one...



I've no idea V2. European? Polish maybe? Some clues? 



Emilio Lafuente said:


> The one for me I think it´s a *Hispano Aviación HA-200 Saeta*, arrow in English.



Yep, The Spanish Saeta. I thought the rear view might fool you!


Emilio Lafuente said:


> Anyway the source I used was in Cirillyc and the caption said: *Moskalev-Itskovich KAI-1*



My reference is dated (1987) but it describes the photo below as the Aviation Engineering Institute (Kasan) KAI-I which was a touring aircraft of 1935. It carried four passengers, one atypically being in the greenhouse nose.

From this, they (ZV Itskovich?) developed the KAI-3 bomber trainer as per your image. UPB for_ Uchebnii Perekhodnii Bombardirovschik_ = "Bomber for transitional training." Of course I may well be completely wrong!


----------



## v2 (Mar 7, 2009)

Graeme said:


> I've no idea V2. European? Polish maybe? Some clues?



it's European but not Polish...


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 7, 2009)

Is there some good fellow who could let me have a clue about the "portly" early british/french (?) jet contained in the URL as above?
carson1934

PS I have difficulties in uploading images


----------



## Storch (Mar 7, 2009)

v2 said:


> It is Ikarus "Orkan", Storch.




Thats it!Thank you!


----------



## Waynos (Mar 7, 2009)

Carson, that is the Boulton Paul P.120, the better looking T tail version of the P.111.


----------



## Graeme (Mar 8, 2009)

v2 said:


> next one...



Czech? A product of AERO maybe?


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 8, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Carson, that is the Boulton Paul P.120, the better looking T tail version of the P.111.



Oh yes, how silly of me, she's the famous "widowmaker" which I didn't recognize at first glance on kolyan. The pic I have of this aircraft is a front view downloaded from Wiki and apparently she received a black glossy paint which is quite different from the all metal version.
Thanks very much Waynos for your prompt reply.
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 8, 2009)

v2 said:


> next one...



Is it hungarian? It looks like a Budapest trainer


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 8, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Is it hungarian? It looks like a Budapest trainer



This is the hungarian aircraft I'm talking about


----------



## v2 (Mar 8, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> This is the hungarian aircraft I'm talking about



it isn't hungarian, carson, my friend... but hungarians neighbour...


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 8, 2009)

Don't call me a nuisance but what could be this funny US object? (It doesn't look like a drone...)


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 8, 2009)

v2 said:


> it isn't hungarian, carson, my friend... but hungarians neighbour...


If it is a hungarian neighbour could it be a czech Avia (maybe BH-29)?


----------



## Graeme (Mar 8, 2009)

v2 said:


> hungarians neighbour...



Rumanian? *S.E.T 7K*?

SET 7



carson1934 said:


> Don't call me a nuisance but what could be this funny US object? (It doesn't look like a drone...)



Where did you get the image from Carson?

The *Convair XP-82.
*




A Brief History of the Convair F-106 Delta Dart


----------



## v2 (Mar 8, 2009)

nope.... hmmm I made a little mistake...it's not direct neighbour...but from east side....


----------



## AMCKen (Mar 8, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Rumanian? *S.E.T 7K*?
> 
> SET 7
> 
> ...



Above article says MX-82, not XP. The XP-82 would be the Twin Mustang.
??
ta


----------



## Graeme (Mar 8, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Above article says MX-82, not XP. The XP-82 would be the Twin Mustang.
> ??
> ta



G'day Ken. Agreed but further down the site the photos are labelled XP-82. Others have labelled it the XP-92. I dunno. I tried to find more with this thread...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/post-war/convair-projects-10246.html


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 8, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Rumanian? *S.E.T 7K*?
> 
> SET 7
> 
> ...



Concerning the Convair XP/82 I got my picture from:
kolyan.net/foto2006/october/10/planes_201.jpg and thanks very much for the wealth of information I got from all of you: I'm really astounded by your competence.
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 8, 2009)

v2 said:


> nope.... hmmm I made a little mistake...it's not direct neighbour...but from east side....



Hi V2 with all due respect it doesn't look to me like a roumenian SET-7 in particular the vertical rudder seems quite different from the pic you have submitted...but of course I could be quite wrong considering that your pic was shot from a very vicious angle.....or is it really a SET7?


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 8, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Concerning the Convair XP/82 I got my picture from:
> kolyan.net/foto2006/october/10/planes_201.jpg and thanks very much for the wealth of information I got from all of you: I'm really astounded by your competence.
> carson1934



furthering my post#2794 I was able to read a number on the vertical rudder of Convair XP/82 which is 6683. Would this be useful for further research?


----------



## Waynos (Mar 8, 2009)

It is the mock up for the XP-92, An XP-92 prototype did fly, but not until after the Miles M-52 style fuselage was changed to a more conventional design with a top mounted cockpit and nose intake similar to the F-84.


----------



## v2 (Mar 9, 2009)

ok, a few words more:
Six XXXX series 1 aircraft delivered from manufacturer winter 1936. Open cockpit and Wright Cylone engine in a Townsend ring. Used for reconnaissance in late 1930s, then for liaison and continuation training. Withdrawn from service early 1940s.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 9, 2009)

Dear V2,

I think it´s Bulgarian, it´s a *DAR DAR-3 Garvan I*!!!


----------



## v2 (Mar 9, 2009)

Well done Emilio! It is!


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 9, 2009)

New subject: Varga X/G
Is there someone who could supply information in either english or french or german or spanish about subject aircraft of which I am enclosing a picture.I have found rather extensive information on:
Letadla - plánky I.
and 
Samoloty wojskowe ¶wiata 1935-1945
however the former is in czech and the second is in polish.Could some good soul direct me to a website written in English/french/german/spanish?
Thanks in advance. carson1934

By the way congratulations to Emilio for solving the riddle of the biplane in the workshop!


----------



## v2 (Mar 9, 2009)

hello carson- I found info about Varga H/G:
Varga


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 10, 2009)

A new one, and hope a difficult one...


----------



## Graeme (Mar 10, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> A new one, and hope a difficult one...



SNCAO 700

SNCAO 700

And I hope Emilio that this is even more difficult...


----------



## Patoruzu (Mar 10, 2009)

Could be a french one MB 135 or 140, but the dorsal turret......

You were right Graeme SNCAO 700


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi Graeme,

This was a real challenge! the *Herrick Convertoplane* or *Vertaplane*

Herrick Convertoplane helicopter - development history, photos, technical data


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 10, 2009)

v2 said:


> hello carson- I found info about Varga H/G:
> Varga



Thanks very much V2
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 10, 2009)

help needed please...I tried to locate this jet by canvassing all more or less recent jets of the polish air force but none matched the attached image....Could somebody give me a clue?
Thanks a lot in advance
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 10, 2009)

I have compiled a listing of almost 40 aircraft types with contrarotating props.
I hope this is helpful for anybody interested.
Advising me of any omission to this list is more than appreciated.
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Mar 10, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hi Graeme,
> 
> This was a real challenge! the *Herrick Convertoplane* or *Vertaplane*
> 
> Herrick Convertoplane helicopter - development history, photos, technical data



Nicely done Emilio!


----------



## Graeme (Mar 10, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> help needed please...I tried to locate this jet by canvassing all more or less recent jets of the polish air force but none matched the attached image....Could somebody give me a clue?
> Thanks a lot in advance
> carson1934



PZL-230 Skorpion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 10, 2009)

Graeme said:


> PZL-230 Skorpion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



well done Graeme, thanks for the prompt reply


----------



## Graeme (Mar 11, 2009)

Another line drawing...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 11, 2009)

Again the sleek lines of the aircraft sugest a British design, like the hawker Spanish Fury, but the spats are completely different. Perhaps again an US design?? Maybe a *Curtiss XP-23*???

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060906-F-1234P-011.jpg


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 11, 2009)

This is my last chance to try to beat you...


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 11, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Again the sleek lines of the aircraft sugest a British design, like the hawker Spanish Fury, but the spats are completely different. Perhaps again an US design?? Maybe a *Curtiss XP-23*???
> 
> http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060906-F-1234P-011.jpg


It is indeed a Curtiss XP-23. Emilio gets all honours again!
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 11, 2009)

Is there anyone in the forum who might come up with a picture of Lazarew ChAI-3 a russian all wing aircraft of 1936? I only found one in the "100 Jahre nurfluegel". Is this all that's available?   

carson1934


----------



## A4K (Mar 11, 2009)

I've got one in a book ('Flugzeug Typen Der Welt') - painted with white bird feathers... I'll see if the missus can scan it at work, otherwise drop us your address in a PM and I'll photocopy it for ya.

Evan


----------



## AMCKen (Mar 11, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day Ken. Agreed but further down the site the photos are labelled XP-82. Others have labelled it the XP-92. I dunno. I tried to find more with this thread...
> 
> http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/post-war/convair-projects-10246.html




Convair XF-92 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
shows aircraft with tail number '6682'. I'd guess the XP-82 comes from a mixup of MX-82 and XP(XF)-92.


----------



## Graeme (Mar 11, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Maybe a *Curtiss XP-23*



Certainly is Emilio! 



Emilio Lafuente said:


> This is my last chance to try to beat you



Not thinking of quitting are you mate?  

I think it was young Storch that showed your Chinese biplane photo way back somewhere in this monster thread and I forget what he called it, but I've only known it as the "Fushing Biplane"...see here...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/secret-chinese-japanese-aircraft-ww2-10060.html


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 11, 2009)

A4K said:


> I've got one in a book ('Flugzeug Typen Der Welt') - painted with white bird feathers... I'll see if the missus can scan it at work, otherwise drop us your address in a PM and I'll photocopy it for ya.
> 
> Evan



Thanks Evan. If it isn't too inconvenient for you please send the pic to my e-mail which is the following:
[
Thanks again mate
carson1934 (Carlo)


----------



## A4K (Mar 11, 2009)

No worries mate, I'll see what I can do. Worse case scenario, I'll photocopy it and send it snail mail.


----------



## A4K (Mar 12, 2009)

Oops, I mucked up  ...sorry, was thinking of the Kalinin K12...of the chAI-3 I only have photos of a model of it...

Found this on the net though:

http://www.nuricom.de/FlyingWings_AilesVolantes_Nurfluegel_AlaVolante_KN_Pic_Charkov_ChAi3.jpg


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 12, 2009)

A4K said:


> Oops, I mucked up  ...sorry, was thinking of the Kalinin K12...of the chAI-3 I only have photos of a model of it...
> 
> Found this on the net though:
> 
> http://www.nuricom.de/FlyingWings_AilesVolantes_Nurfluegel_AlaVolante_KN_Pic_Charkov_ChAi3.jpg



Well this is the same pic I have....I gues that's the only one available on the net. So don't worry.....thanks anyway pal
carson1934


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 12, 2009)

Dear Graeme, I promise you I didn´t know the thread where the Chinese biplane appeared   
Next time, if any, I´ll try to find a difficult one. By the way, the caption of the Chinese biplane defined it as a *Fu Shin AP-1 Ning-Hsia*


----------



## Storch (Mar 13, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Dear Graeme, I promise you I didn´t know the thread where the Chinese biplane appeared
> Next time, if any, I´ll try to find a difficult one. By the way, the caption of the Chinese biplane defined it as a *Fu Shin AP-1 Ning-Hsia*




I'm arrived to late!!Graeme was right, I posted it there is 6 months!8)


----------



## Graeme (Mar 13, 2009)

Found this today...


----------



## Patoruzu (Mar 13, 2009)

its the father of the Skyraider - trhe XBTD Destroyer


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 13, 2009)

Is there anyone who could direct me to a website containing pictures of the Curtiss A-12 "Shrike" operating in China or with chinese markings? Or is there a page in this forum dealing with this subject?
Thanks for your attention!
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 13, 2009)

Is there someone clever enough to guess what's the name of this czech craft?
carson1934


----------



## Willie (Mar 13, 2009)

My cousin Bob Williamson, was of the 17th Airborn Division, 513 Parachute Infantry Regiment, 1st Platoon, E Company.
He was flown into Baston, Germany in 1944-45 on a C-45.
What I need to a possible picture of such a aircraft. It took off from land to drop.
Cousin Helen "Tootsie" Bagley


----------



## Graeme (Mar 13, 2009)

Hi Carson. You might be more successful with your image requests (such as the Curtiss A-12 above) if you made a thread so more people view it. Maybe titling it "Carson's Requests." Just a thought.  



carson1934 said:


> what's the name of this czech craft?
> carson1934



The Skoda D-1, a licensed version of the French Dewoitine D 21...

A.F.M. Skoda D-1



Patoruzu said:


> its the father of the Skyraider - trhe XBTD Destroyer



Quick and accurate as always Patoruzu!


New one
They replaced a fuel tank with an engineers position. What aircraft and why...


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 13, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Hi Carson. You might be more successful with your image requests (such as the Curtiss A-12 above) if you made a thread so more people view it. Maybe titling it "Carson's Requests." Just a thought.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Graeme,
it is the Skoda D1 you are really a swell guy.
When I am more familiar with this complicated forum I will organize a thread in such a way that it could be viewed by more people (like for instance my question concerning Curtiss A-12)
carson1934


----------



## A4K (Mar 14, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Well this is the same pic I have....I gues that's the only one available on the net. So don't worry.....thanks anyway pal
> carson1934



No worries mate. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.


...And welcome aboard Willie! The Beech (Beechcraft) C-45 is what you're after:
Kiwi Aircraft Images : Beech 18 (C-45/AT-11)


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 14, 2009)

cam some kind guy confirm whether the attached pic represents the experimental Curtiss XP42 of 1939? The one thing however that puzzles me are the two gun barrels protruding from both air inlets which are unavailable in similar pics. Weren't they supposed to cool off carberettors (I mean the air inlets)?
Thanks in advance for helping me.
carson1934


----------



## Sweb (Mar 14, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> cam some kind guy confirm whether the attached pic represents the experimental Curtiss XP42 of 1939? The one thing however that puzzles me are the two gun barrels protruding from both air inlets which are unavailable in similar pics. Weren't they supposed to cool off carberettors (I mean the air inlets)?
> Thanks in advance for helping me.
> carson1934



No. That's the XP-40. The XP-42 was the P-36A with a completely cowled over radial engine and an extended prop shaft and large spinner. It was an in-line engine wannabe-looking design. The XP-42 engine shaft had serious vibration problems and the design lost to the XP-40.


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 15, 2009)

what might be the attached trainer (it looks british) with south korean markings? Anyone interested in finding out?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 15, 2009)

Sweb said:


> No. That's the XP-40. The XP-42 was the P-36A with a completely cowled over radial engine and an extended prop shaft and large spinner. It was an in-line engine wannabe-looking design. The XP-42 engine shaft had serious vibration problems and the design lost to the XP-40.



Thanks Sweb you are a gentleman and a scholar
carson1934


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 16, 2009)

Dear Carson, perhaps this link can serve of some help with your last quest.
CMR-176 - Supermarine Spitfire Tr.9 'Twin-Seat' Trainer


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 16, 2009)

Hi Carson, there are more photos on the Web of that Irish Corps Spitfire.


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 16, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hi Carson, there are more photos on the Web of that Irish Corps Spitfire.



Thanks Emilio for the excellent pics.
I didn't realize that irish corps spitfires had roundels exactly like the south korean markings (Having just a black/white photo I couldn't tell the colour difference)!
On the other hand it seemed strange that british planes could be in Korea.
carson1934


----------



## v2 (Mar 18, 2009)

a new one...an interesting one, I hope...


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 19, 2009)

v2 said:


> a new one...an interesting one, I hope...



Dear V2
I have been through my (small) collection of inverted gull wing aircrafts but so far I havn't found this trainer with markings of nationalist China.
Sorry
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 19, 2009)

I have problems in identifying the attached pic.
For the clever guys of this forum it should be a cinch!
Thanks for helping me
carson1934


----------



## v2 (Mar 19, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Dear V2
> I have been through my (small) collection of inverted gull wing aircrafts but so far I havn't found this trainer with markings of nationalist China.
> Sorry
> carson1934



Hi Carson,

You are on good way.... it's chinese aircraft...


----------



## verner (Mar 19, 2009)

B-32 Dominator on the 4-engine job.


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 20, 2009)

verner said:


> B-32 Dominator on the 4-engine job.



Hi Verner,
thanks very much for your help. Well done!  
carson1934


----------



## ONE_HELLCAT (Mar 20, 2009)

The little fighter almost looks like a CW-21, but the wings and landing gear is different.


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 21, 2009)

What's the name of this large US fighter with the radar scanner protruding from its belly? Thanks in advance to anyone who cares to answer
carson1934


----------



## AMCKen (Mar 21, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> What's the name of this large US fighter with the radar scanner protruding from its belly? Thanks in advance to anyone who cares to answer
> carson1934



Looks like the Martin AM Mauler to me.

AM Mauler - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## AMCKen (Mar 21, 2009)

Oh, and the 'scanner' I suspect is an underwing bomb/torpedo mount.


----------



## verner (Mar 21, 2009)

XBTM-1


----------



## v2 (Mar 22, 2009)

v2 said:


> a new one...an interesting one, I hope...



hmmm.... any idea, guys? ok...the prototype was flown for the first time in 1943, at Yangling. After circling the airfield, the aircraft landed too fast, ground-looped and was written off...


----------



## verner (Mar 22, 2009)

Where is this info from? I'm not sure this pic is for real. It looks like a bunch of different parts from other planes.


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 22, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Oh, and the 'scanner' I suspect is an underwing bomb/torpedo mount.



Thanks very much for your help AMCKen. I hope to soon reciprocate
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 22, 2009)

verner said:


> XBTM-1



Thanks very much Verner. What would I do without your help?
carson1934


----------



## v2 (Mar 22, 2009)

verner said:


> Where is this info from? I'm not sure this pic is for real. It looks like a bunch of different parts from other planes.





Bilderrätselrunde 2008 - Seite 85 - Flugzeugforum


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 22, 2009)

v2 said:


> hmmm.... any idea, guys? ok...the prototype was flown for the first time in 1943, at Yangling. After circling the airfield, the aircraft landed too fast, ground-looped and was written off...



From the information you are giving us it looks like CHU (AFAMF) X-PO and the predicament you are talking about happened to this very aircraft.
However the pic I have looks very different from the one you have submitted.
Is it right or wrong?
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Mar 22, 2009)

v2 said:


> Bilderrätselrunde 2008 - Seite 85 - Flugzeugforum





> as ist die Yench`ü *XP-1* (Experimental Pursuit) die C.L. Zakharchenko als *D-2* projektiert hat. Sie hatte im Herbst 1943 ihren Erstflug, welchen sie nicht erfolgreich beendet hat.


Just a guess V2 but from that site maybe the Kunming XP-1 amd some how related to the D-2 project?...


----------



## Graeme (Mar 22, 2009)

Graeme said:


> New one
> They replaced a fuel tank with an engineers position. What aircraft and why...



No further interest in this one?

Okay. It was the modified Bell XP-83 used for ramjet research.


----------



## Waynos (Mar 22, 2009)

Not no interest, it was just too damn hard ! 

PS, have you not been recieving my emails 'cos I got an odd one from you, did you get the reply?


----------



## verner (Mar 22, 2009)

Found a site on XP-1:

CAFX16


----------



## Graeme (Mar 22, 2009)

Waynos said:


> PS, have you not been recieving my emails 'cos I got an odd one from you, did you get the reply?



Nope. I sent you a PM.


----------



## v2 (Mar 23, 2009)

verner said:


> Found a site on XP-1:
> 
> CAFX16



really interesting  THX


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 23, 2009)

verner said:


> Found a site on XP-1:
> 
> CAFX16



Congratulations Verner this is a very enlightening site as regards air force of nationalist China.
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 23, 2009)

v2 said:


> hmmm.... any idea, guys? ok...the prototype was flown for the first time in 1943, at Yangling. After circling the airfield, the aircraft landed too fast, ground-looped and was written off...



Verner's site is really self-explanatory so my assumption was not quite right
carson1934


----------



## v2 (Mar 23, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Verner's site is really self-explanatory so my assumption was not quite right
> carson1934



hi Carson,

I have a little surprise for you:
Translation result for http://cwlam2000hk.sinaman.com/cafx16.htm


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 23, 2009)

v2 said:


> hi Carson,
> 
> I have a little surprise for you:
> Translation result for http://cwlam2000hk.sinaman.com/cafx16.htm



thanks very much V2 though I must say that it is really "pidgin" English however I will exert all my powers to make it out!
carson1934


----------



## v2 (Mar 27, 2009)

a next one:


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 27, 2009)

v2 said:


> a next one:



Post Neudorf PN-3 (or Aviotehase) an esthonian prototype of 1939.
carson1934


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Mar 27, 2009)

A new, and, I hope interesting aircraft for the weekend.


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 28, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> A new, and, I hope interesting aircraft for the weekend.



Hi Emilio
guessing what an old biplane could be isn't really my cup of tea...the open hatch door, the absence of (visible) portholes, the small marking on the vertical rudder infer that it might have been used for freight transportation...maybe an aircraft of Lufthansa in between wars....that's as far as i can go
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Mar 28, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> maybe an aircraft of Lufthansa in between wars....



Yeah, I can just make out the Lufthansa insignia on the tail. I don't know if Heinkel biplanes were employed by Lufthansa but they were big newspaper/mail transports of the period. I was thinking maybe the Heinkel He 40 (illustrated below) but the struts are wrong. There is mention of the similar but "improved" He 44 but I can't find any illustrations...








(Edit; On second thoughts, not a Heinkel. Maybe not German?)


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 28, 2009)

What about finding out name of attached pic?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 28, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> A new, and, I hope interesting aircraft for the weekend.



Hi Emilio,
I found it! It's a Caspar C-35 "Priwall". Contrary to what Wiki states two of such aircrafts were used by Lufthansa, one in 1928 as an eight-seater and one more in 1929 as a freighter. This information was extracted from an article which appeared on the italian edition of a specialized international magazine called "Take Off".
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 28, 2009)

enclosed a page from magazine with front view of Caspar C35 in passenger version with four windows on each side
carson1934


----------



## AMCKen (Mar 29, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> What about finding out name of attached pic?
> carson1934



I'll take a stab in the dark - Aichi E3A? : )


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 29, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> I'll take a stab in the dark - Aichi E3A? : )



nope, it is european and flew in the twenties.....
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 29, 2009)

Would appreciate some information on the tailless glider of which I'm enclosing a pic.
I'd like to know where and when it was built and whether additional images are available.
Thanks in advance for your co-operation
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Mar 29, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> nope, it is european and flew in the twenties.....
> carson1934



Any relation to the Hansa Brandenburg W-12?...on trial in Japan?...





By the way good job on the Casper and the Post Nuedorf above!

No idea on the flying wing glider but the surrounds strike me as American?


----------



## AMCKen (Mar 29, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Any relation to the Hansa Brandenburg W-12?...on trial in Japan?...
> 
> Looks like it. The Aichi was developed from the Heinkel 56.


----------



## AMCKen (Mar 29, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Would appreciate some information on the tailless glider of which I'm enclosing a pic.
> I'd like to know where and when it was built and whether additional images are available.
> Thanks in advance for your co-operation
> carson1934



I've seen this one before -where I can't remember. Similar to the Armstrong-Whitworth AW52.... (1/2 hr later, still no find : ) )


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 30, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Any relation to the Hansa Brandenburg W-12?...on trial in Japan?...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Graeme,
you almost made it..it is a dutch biplane called Van Berkel WA of which 44 were produced during 1919. I think this company worked under licence from Hansa Brandenburg.
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 30, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Graeme said:
> 
> 
> > Any relation to the Hansa Brandenburg W-12?...on trial in Japan?...
> ...


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 30, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> I've seen this one before -where I can't remember. Similar to the Armstrong-Whitworth AW52.... (1/2 hr later, still no find : ) )



Thanks very much AMCKen.
If it may help you out in your research I know that it is called "NCR Canada" but nothing more. Any additional information would be really appreciated (of course it could very well be a students' job from a technical high school)
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 31, 2009)

who is clever enough to guess the name of this beautiful fighter of the thirties (this is an easy one)?
carson1934


----------



## Patoruzu (Mar 31, 2009)

Grigorovich IP 1


----------



## carson1934 (Mar 31, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> Grigorovich IP 1



Yeah, that's it Patoruzu.Well done!
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 2, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> I've seen this one before -where I can't remember. Similar to the Armstrong-Whitworth AW52.... (1/2 hr later, still no find : ) )



Hi AMCKen,

have you been able to dig out some information for me concerning the tailless glider? It sounds like being manufactured in Canada.
Thanks very much for your help
carson1934


----------



## AMCKen (Apr 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi AMCKen,
> 
> have you been able to dig out some information for me concerning the tailless glider? It sounds like being manufactured in Canada.
> Thanks very much for your help
> carson1934



I believe the label should be 'NRC Canada' rather than 'NCR Canada'. I suspect the 'National Research Council' would be more likely to have built one than the 'National Cash Register' Co.


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 3, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> I believe the label should be 'NRC Canada' rather than 'NCR Canada'. I suspect the 'National Research Council' would be more likely to have built one than the 'National Cash Register' Co.


Hi AMCKen
Thanks to your amendment I was able to connect with following site through which I obtained all the information I needed:
RCAF.com : Aircraft
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 6, 2009)

Another line drawing...


----------



## Patoruzu (Apr 6, 2009)

The nose is very similar to the F6C perhaps an inprovement of it?
Still searching


----------



## A4K (Apr 6, 2009)

Looks familiar Graeme, a Curtiss design by chance?


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 6, 2009)

Yes, I'm thinking Curtiss too. The XP-10 maybe? The gull wing would fit but the cockpit seems to be slightly different, maybe another prototype? 

Krabat


----------



## Patoruzu (Apr 6, 2009)

F10C family but seams like a two seater


----------



## Patoruzu (Apr 6, 2009)

Berliner-Joyce P16
Engine Curtiss V-1570
redesignated PB-1 as first entry in the "Pursuit Bi-place" category, which was assigned only twice before someone realized there was much confusion between "biplace" and "biplane"—Consolidated had the PB-2.


----------



## Graeme (Apr 7, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> Berliner-Joyce P16



Yep, that's it Patoruzu.

One more, maybe a bit more difficult...


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 7, 2009)

Where do you get all these line drawings, Graeme? They're looking great.

Krabat


----------



## Patoruzu (Apr 7, 2009)

Excellent drawings Graeme
Looks like a member of the Boeing P12 family


----------



## Waynos (Apr 7, 2009)

Except I Reckon its a Hawker Fury, probably Persian.


----------



## Graeme (Apr 8, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> Where do you get all these line drawings?



Hi Krabat. They're from "Air Classics" from the mid-70s.



Patoruzu said:


> Looks like a member of the Boeing P12 family



That's what I was hoping it would look like Patoruzu.  ...but then along comes Wayne... ...



Waynos said:


> Except I Reckon its a Hawker Fury, probably Persian.



...and it is. The Hornet powered Hawker Persian Fury...


----------



## Patoruzu (Apr 8, 2009)

Nice trick GRAEME


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 8, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Hi Krabat. They're from "Air Classics" from the mid-70s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey, you are flying too high gentlemen...can we expect more down-to-earth questions?
carson1934


----------



## Patoruzu (Apr 8, 2009)

lasciate la terra per i fanti - Carson - Noi abbiamo ale

let the earth to the comon soldier - we've got our wings

Buone Pasque - Happy eastern


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 9, 2009)

Is this "down to earth" enough? I don't think it's getting easier this way.  
Krabat


----------



## herman1rg (Apr 9, 2009)

Looks like the remains of a Handley Page Hampden

Pic taken in 1986 (ish) aircraft restored and put on display in Canada until

Snow breaks historic aircraft
Langley Advance
Published: Tuesday, December 30, 2008

Dear Editor,

Despite the best efforts of volunteers, the recent extreme weather has caused considerable damage to some exhibits at the Canadian Museum of Flight at Langley Regional Airport.

Hardest hit is the museums' Handley Page Hampden, a Second World War bomber that was raised from the ocean depths off Vancouver Island in 1985.

Ongoing efforts to clear the rapidly accumulating snow from the wings of the aircraft were overwhelmed during the night of Dec. 26, when snow caused a failure of the left wing's internal structure. The wing separated from the fuselage and collapsed onto an adjacent display case containing one of the aircraft's original engines.

The wing itself suffered considerable damage at both the root and tip. Further damage is visible on the tail of the aircraft, although a full investigation of this area has yet to be completed.

The museum's Hampden is the sole survivor of its type on display anywhere in the world, although another example was recovered recently from a crash site in Russia, and is under restoration in Britain.

The twin-engined Hampden was part of the Royal Air Force's front line equipment at the start of the Second World War, but was soon rendered obsolete and retired from active operations against Nazi Germany in the summer of 1943.

One hundred sixty Hampdens were built in Canada during the Second World War, and many were used on the West Coast to train crews in the difficult mission of attacking enemy shipping with torpedoes. The museum's aircraft was lost on just such an exercise on Nov. 15, 1942, when it crashed into the ocean moments after dropping a practice torpedo.

Following its recovery, the aircraft was the subject of a long and challenging restoration to static display condition, completed in 1998.

It is anticipated that a lengthy program of repair will be required to put the airplane back into display condition, and the museum is putting out a plea for the public's assistance in providing both financial and practical support to help rebuild this important piece of Canadian history.


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 9, 2009)

You're right, a Hampden. To be honest, I was mostly mocking carson for his "down-to-earth" remark.   

But I got another one:





Krabat


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 9, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> lasciate la terra per i fanti - Carson - Noi abbiamo ale
> 
> let the earth to the comon soldier - we've got our wings
> 
> Buone Pasque - Happy eastern



Very good motto, Patoruzu. Buona Pasqua to you and your family!
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 9, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> You're right, a Hampden. To be honest, I was mostly mocking carson for his "down-to-earth" remark.
> 
> But I got another one:
> 
> ...



Hi Krabat,
I've seen this pic before but now can't locate it. Is it russky?
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 9, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> But I got another one



You always do! And I'm glad you do!

In this case the Sukhoi Su-8...

Sukhoi Company (JSC) - Airplanes - Museum - Su-8

My new one...


----------



## farmersboy (Apr 9, 2009)

That looks like one of the B-17's that was turned into a drone, packed with explosives and modified like that so that the pilot could easily bail out. 

I can't remember the name of the program without Googling, and wasn't there someone famous lost in one that blew up prematurely?


----------



## Patoruzu (Apr 9, 2009)

Boeing BQ7
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app1/bq-7.html


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 9, 2009)

Anybody in the forum wants to give me details of this nifty italian trainer?
carson1934


----------



## A4K (Apr 10, 2009)

I think I've seen that before, just don't know what it's called...


----------



## Graeme (Apr 10, 2009)

A4K said:


> I think I've seen that before, just don't know what it's called...



It's easy Evan. Click right on the photo, check down to properties and bingo.. 

Bestelli-Colombo C-3

Bestelli-Colombo C.3 - tourer

And on that note another to look at...


----------



## Waynos (Apr 10, 2009)

Modified Wellington??? Is that the 'aerodynamic' remote control gun turret project or is this unrelated?


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 10, 2009)

Strange as it may seem I cannot locate name of the attached US cargo/passenger plane. Could someone help me out? Thanks
carson1934


----------



## evangilder (Apr 10, 2009)

Thats 42-65402
Douglas C-74 Globemaster I
65402 (c/n 13913) scrapped at Davis Monthan AFB in 1965

From wikipedia:


> The C-74 Globemaster was developed in response to a need by the United States Army Air Forces for a large transport aircraft with transoceanic range. Douglas Aircraft Company responded in 1942 with a giant four-engined design. The aircraft did not actually fly until 5 September 1945.[1] With the need for military aircraft greatly reduced by the end of World War II, the order was canceled and production ended in January 1946 after production of only fourteen aircraft. This cancelation also ended plans to build an airliner version of the C-74 for the civilian market.
> 
> At the time of its first flight, the C-74 was the largest landplane to enter production, with a maximum weight of 172,000 lb (78,000 kg). It was able to carry 125 soldiers or 48,150 lb (21,840 kg) of cargo over a range of 3,400 statute miles (5,500 km). Perhaps the most notable feature of the C-74 was its cockpit arrangement with separate canopies over the pilot and copilot; the same arrangement was used for the XB-42 Mixmaster. This arrangement was unpopular with flight crews, however, and the aircraft were retrofitted with a more conventional arrangement. During the life of the aircraft, the radial engines were also upgraded to 3,250 hp Pratt Whitney R-4360-49 engines.
> 
> The C-74 supported the Berlin Airlift by flying cargo from the U.S. to staging bases in Europe, from which it was flown to Berlin in smaller C-47 Skytrain and C-54 Skymaster aircraft. Experience with the Berlin Airlift demonstrated that the new United States Air Force needed a heavy strategic airlift capability. The fifth C-74 built was modified to be a prototype for the C-124 Globemaster II, which used the same wing and empennage as the C-74, but used a much larger fuselage. This newer aircraft quickly superseded the C-74 in service. All of the surviving C-74s were scrapped in the 1960s and 1970s. One aircraft (42-65409) made a brief appearance in the 1969 movie The Italian Job.


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 10, 2009)

I don't mean to be a nuisance and I know that the attached pic represents the SNCASO ONERA Delta VX01.
But is there somebody who could direct me to a website where I could find factual information about it?
Thanks in advance for your help
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 10, 2009)

evangilder said:


> Thats 42-65402
> Douglas C-74 Globemaster I
> 65402 (c/n 13913) scrapped at Davis Monthan AFB in 1965
> 
> From wikipedia:


Thanks for your very prompt answer Evangilder . I hope to soon reciprocate
carson1934


----------



## A4K (Apr 10, 2009)

Graeme said:


> It's easy Evan. Click right on the photo, check down to properties and bingo..
> 
> Bestelli-Colombo C-3



According to my laptop Graeme, it's a JPEG image called 'extra text: blank' !


----------



## Graeme (Apr 10, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Modified Wellington??? Is that the 'aerodynamic' remote control gun turret project or is this unrelated?



Yep. Wellington II (L4250) with 40mm cannon and periscopic sight.







A4K said:


> According to my laptop Graeme, it's a JPEG image called 'extra text: blank' !



I bought my PC second-hand from ASIO, so that probably explains it.  



carson1934 said:


> I don't mean to be a nuisance and I know that the attached pic represents the SNCASO ONERA Delta VX01.
> But is there somebody who could direct me to a website where I could find factual information about it?
> Thanks in advance for your help
> carson1934



Can't find a website Carson but I've got an old magazine clipping...


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 11, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Yep. Wellington II (L4250) with 40mm cannon and periscopic sight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks very much Graeme and my compliments for your vast knowledge. You are very helpful as usual
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 11, 2009)

I refer to my yesterday's post #2914.
From www.aviastar I have downloaded pic bestelli-colombo c-3 (herewith enclosed) which is obviously supposed to be Bestelli-Colombo C/3.
From   I have downloaded pic C3-1 (also herewith attached) which is supposed to be Bestetti-Colombo C/3.
Now although technical features of each aircraft match onehundredpercent with both websites (meaning that both websites deal with the same aircraft) the pictures ARE QUITE DIFFERENT!
Is there someone in possession of more photographic evidence of this elusive aircraft able to solve this riddle?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 11, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I refer to my yesterday's post #2914.
> From www.aviastar I have downloaded pic bestelli-colombo c-3 (herewith enclosed) which is obviously supposed to be Bestelli-Colombo C/3.
> From   I have downloaded pic C3-1 (also herewith attached) which is supposed to be Bestetti-Colombo C/3.
> Now although technical features of each aircraft match onehundredpercent with both websites (meaning that both websites deal with the same aircraft) the pictures ARE QUITE DIFFERENT!
> ...



amendment to my previous post.
The third line should read "from   I have downloaded etc. etc


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 11, 2009)

I have very little experience over early bombers. Maybe some kind soul might be able to tell me what's the name of the attached pic.
No offense meant but it is ugly enough to be british or french (or maybe italian?)
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 11, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I have very little experience over early bombers. Maybe some kind soul might be able to tell me what's the name of the attached pic.
> No offense meant but it is ugly enough to be british or french (or maybe italian?)
> carson1934



Don't rack your brains guys I think I found it:
Handley Page "Heyford". Is it correct?
carson1934


----------



## drgondog (Apr 11, 2009)

what is this? crashed in Germany in 1959/60 - apparently 4-5 guys bailed out. it looks an awful lot like a lockheed tail ------> T-33, F-94 (even a U-2) but the star and bar says no to U-2 I think. Obviously only two per ship so it would have to be a mid air for four to punch out. Otherwise a Gooney Bird?


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 11, 2009)

drgondog said:


> what is this? crashed in Germany in 1959/60 - apparently 5 guys bailed out



I hoist white flag....too difficult for me...
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (Apr 11, 2009)

I am fairly confident in surmising it to be some model of Dakota, it is obviously too far gone to tell which model purely from sight.

Yes, the Heyford was correct, an ugly but ingenious design in many ways, however, its scary to think that it was still in service in 1939, who says Munich was all about pacifism?


----------



## AMCKen (Apr 11, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi AMCKen
> Thanks to your amendment I was able to connect with following site through which I obtained all the information I needed:
> RCAF.com : Aircraft
> carson1934



Glad to help out. The 'Namao' location in the article is just a few miles north of here.


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 12, 2009)

This is after-Easter "spotter album". Who can guess name of this funny looking amphibian plane?
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (Apr 12, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> This is after-Easter "spotter album". Who can guess name of this funny looking amphibian plane?
> carson1934



Hi, it's a Dornier Dolphin, right?

Ciao


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 13, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Hi, it's a Dornier Dolphin, right?
> 
> Ciao



Yes, that's right Dornier DoL3 
Ciao
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 14, 2009)

Is there anyone of you gentlemen willing to tackle the job of identifying this italian aircraft after abundant easter luncheon and chocolate eggs galore?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 15, 2009)

Is there someone kind enough to help me identify the small jet (executive, trainer, liaison?) herewith attached? It must be french or british...
Thanks in advance guys
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 15, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> trainer?
> carson1934



It's the Hindustan Aeronautics Kiran, Carson.

The one above that looks a little like the Bellanca 28-70?


----------



## A4K (Apr 15, 2009)

Waynos said:


> I am fairly confident in surmising it to be some model of Dakota, it is obviously too far gone to tell which model purely from sight.




With Waynos - definitely a C-47, but in that condition, the only way to tell which model would be by checking records of operational Dakota's in the area at the time, and what missions they were performing.


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 15, 2009)

Graeme said:


> It's the Hindustan Aeronautics Kiran, Carson.
> 
> The one above that looks a little like the Bellanca 28-70?



Hy Graeme,
thanks for the "Kiran" I would have never guessed it.
Concerning the one above it I'll give you some clues: it is definitely italian and was built in 1934 with a view of participating to the London/Melbourne race and...it remained a prototype!
If nobody knows I'll give you her name.
carson1934


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 15, 2009)

You can read part of serial number on the fin: O-4927... 

The "O" means obsolete, so I think more than 10 years old. The complete number should read 44927... and the accident must have happened in 1954 or later (1959/60 would fit). I believe it was a DC-3/C-47 of some sort.

Krabat


----------



## Marcogrifo (Apr 15, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> ...Concerning the one above it I'll give you some clues: it is definitely italian and was built in 1934 with a view of participating to the London/Melbourne race and...it remained a prototype!
> If nobody knows I'll give you her name.
> carson1934



Can't recognize it at the moment but something tells me maybe a Breda prototype...

Ciao


----------



## drgondog (Apr 15, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> You can read part of serial number on the fin: O-4927...
> 
> The "O" means obsolete, so I think more than 10 years old. The complete number should read 44927... and the accident must have happened in 1954 or later (1959/60 would fit). I believe it was a DC-3/C-47 of some sort.
> 
> Krabat



I found the accident report - it is a Gooney Bird, serial 43-49271 with the O replacing the 43.


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 15, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Can't recognize it at the moment but something tells me maybe a Breda prototype...
> 
> Ciao


I know this is a hard nut to crack. It is the Caproni Bergamaschi CAB PL/3 conceived by Ing. Pallavicino in 1934. If you can read french there is a fairly good report on this aircraft including technical features and blue prints on following http:
members.lycos.fr/wings2/archives/fiches%20_am/cab_pl3.jpg
I you canno read french just tell me and I will make a short translation for you.
Ciao
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 15, 2009)

Graeme said:


> It's the Hindustan Aeronautics Kiran, Carson.
> 
> The one above that looks a little like the Bellanca 28-70?



Hi Graeme,
no it isn't a Bellanca please see my reply to Marcogrifo next page.
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 15, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I you canno read french just tell me and I will make a short translation for you.
> Ciao
> carson1934



Yeah, that would be good Carson, please do.

New one...don't be too quick to answer...


----------



## A4K (Apr 16, 2009)

Looks very much like a Hawker Hart or Demon, except their cockpit openings are 'rounded'...an earlier prototype, or development?


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Apr 16, 2009)

Hello Graeme and the rest of players,
I think it´s a *Parnall Pipit*.

Parnall Pipit - fighter


----------



## Graeme (Apr 16, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> I think it´s a *Parnall Pipit*.



G'day Emilio! Yes, it's the Pipit.


----------



## Graeme (Apr 16, 2009)

To quote Krabat..."But I've got another one."


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Apr 16, 2009)

*Bristol 138A*???

Bristol 138A - research aircraft


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 16, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Yeah, that would be good Carson, please do.
> 
> New one...don't be too quick to answer...



Hi Graeme
I hope this works because this is the second time I'm writing this translation:
Conceived by Ing. Pallavicino it was a derivative of fighter type AP-1 the wings of which were maintained whilst fuselage and empennages were modified.
Created to participate in the London-Melbourne race (Mac Robertson trophy) it flew in July 1934 piloted by italian ace Francis Lombardi while race to Melbourne was scheduled for October. The aircraft received registration number 61 but it couldn't be thoroughly tested before the race and therefore could not participate. Afterwards it was transferred to Guidonia to complete tests as it was expected to be used as fats mail plane or long distance racer. However nothing materialized and aircraft was finally scrapped.
Cockpit accommodated 2 pilots sitting side by side and forward visibility was scarce. It sported wooden wings and fuselage had a frame of steel tubes covered with metal plates at the front and fabric at the back. For the first time in Italy main landing gear was retracted rearwards into wings by means of a hand-operated hydraulic pump.
Technical features:
- Engine: Pratt Whitney "Hornet SD" - 700HP
- wing span: 11,90m
- length: 9m
- height: 2,78m
- wing area: 24m2
- empty weight: 1700kg
- total weight: 3500kg
- wingload factor: 145,80Kg/m2
- ground speed: 335km/h ; at 2000m: 360km/h; cruising speed at 4000m: 340km/h; landing speed using flaps: 110km/h
- ceiling: 6100m
- max. autonomy: 3100km
For blueprint and picture consult:archives aeronautiques en vrac
I hope above is satisfactory
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 16, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> *Bristol 138A*???
> 
> Bristol 138A - research aircraft



Yes Emilio, this must be a Bristol 138A.
May I remind you gentlemen that the record height for a propeller driven aircraft (which hasn't been beaten sofar) belongs to Major Mario Pezzi who on May 7th 1937 reached 15655m and on October 22nd 1938 reached 17083m with a biplane Caproni Ca/161.
An excellent article with pictures may be read (only in italian) on following website:
http://www.aliditalia.com/Ctepezzi.html
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 16, 2009)

attached a pic of an italian aircraft (probably racer) built in 1959 called L.A.R. GR/2.
Is there anybody in possession of technical data, blueprints, 3 view plans of the above? Also does anybody know what L.A.R. stands for ?
Thanks in advance   
carson1934


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 16, 2009)

> I found the accident report - it is a Gooney Bird, serial 43-49271 with the O replacing the 43.



Great! Can I find it online somewhere? I would like to know what happened.



> To quote Krabat..."But I've got another one."



Damn, I'm getting predictable. Looks like I need new running gags. How about: "It's a tradition or an old charter or something..."  

Krabat


----------



## drgondog (Apr 16, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> Great! Can I find it online somewhere? I would like to know what happened.
> 
> Krabat



here 'tis - from Horst Jeckel


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 17, 2009)

Thanks a lot. I've never seen such a report before, so it's also professional interest.

Krabat


----------



## Graeme (Apr 17, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> *Bristol 138A*???





carson1934 said:


> Yes Emilio, this must be a Bristol 138A.



Correct.



carson1934 said:


> I hope above is satisfactory



Very much so. Thanks Carson.



carson1934 said:


> attached a pic of an italian aircraft (probably racer) built in *1959* called L.A.R. GR/2.



I can't locate it Carson. Other than at Aviastar...

LAR GR.2 -

What strikes me as odd is that a country like Italy which was producing aerodynamic gems such as the Aviamilano Nibbo and Falco series in 1959 would produce such a machine with wheel spats?! Despite the registration is it possible that it's not Italian? The French were producing some odd aircraft during the fifties...


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 17, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Correct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are absolutely right Graeme.
It might not be italian though registered in Italy. What puzzles me most is that I cannot find track of any aeronautical factory called LAR.
It might have been a very small factory disappeared long ago which produced only this single plane.
carson1934


----------



## Patoruzu (Apr 17, 2009)

Potez 75 - Graeme


----------



## Graeme (Apr 18, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> Potez 75



Yep.


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 18, 2009)

The pic is far from good but is there anyone who may tell me what this jet is (or was)?
Thanks in advance
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 18, 2009)

Help please (after this I won't bother you any more for today)!
A few weeks ago I started a thread seeking help: I am trying to find out more information concerning the hungarian trainer "Honved" created by engineer Andrashi Fabian in Hungary. So far I could only find a bad pic on the net and a few lines in russian and polish which don't let me go too far ahead.No reply to my thread however.
Anyone who could direct me to a decent website?
Thanks for your help
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (Apr 18, 2009)

That is the Breguet Taon of circa 1957. there were two models built the single engined type 1001 and the twin jet type 1100, the photo looks like the former.


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 18, 2009)

Waynos said:


> That is the Breguet Taon of circa 1957. there were two models built the single engined type 1001 and the twin jet type 1100, the photo looks like the former.



Thanks very much Waynos, much obliged   
carson1934


----------



## verner (Apr 18, 2009)

Carson, here's something-not much though.

Honved Experimental Aircraft - The Great Planes and warbirds Community


----------



## Graeme (Apr 19, 2009)

Waynos said:


> That is the Breguet Taon of circa 1957. there were two models built the single engined type 1001 and the twin jet type 1100, the photo looks like the former.



G'day mate! Only because it's the same photo, I'd have it say it's the twin jet Breguet 1100. Comparing the two it looks like the 1001 doesn't have the long port nose wheel door. 









New one...
This use to be a Noorduyn UC-64 Noresman but was "greatly altered" for a French TV series to portray a ...?


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 19, 2009)

An old card of the early thirties....I reckon that whoever guesses is a great identifier...What is the name of the aircraft and name of pilot as well (first man to the right standing)....?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 19, 2009)

verner said:


> Carson, here's something-not much though.
> 
> Honved Experimental Aircraft - The Great Planes and warbirds Community



Thanks very much Verner, it's a great help anyway
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 19, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day mate! Only because it's the same photo, I'd have it say it's the twin jet Breguet 1100. Comparing the two it looks like the 1001 doesn't have the long port nose wheel door.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks very much Graeme for the Breguet

Nope I have no idea of which french TV series you are talking about....   
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 19, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I reckon that whoever guesses is a great identifier...What is the name of the aircraft and name of pilot as well (first man to the right standing)....?
> carson1934



Nothing "great" about it Carson. The logo (Justice for Hungary) is clearly visible on the Lockheed Sirius, then it's all up to Mr Google...

This Month in AHF History: July 1931 - "Justice for Hungary," a Historic Flight



carson1934 said:


> Nope I have no idea of which french TV series you are talking about....
> carson1934



No need to identify the TV series Carson, just what the replica plane is meant to represent.


----------



## Waynos (Apr 19, 2009)

Did I say former? I meant latter. Not really, just a mistake 

Is it representing a Breguet?


----------



## AMCKen (Apr 20, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Would appreciate some information on the tailless glider of which I'm enclosing a pic.
> I'd like to know where and when it was built and whether additional images are available.
> Thanks in advance for your co-operation
> carson1934



Here's more on the NRC Pterodactyl (part way down the page).

British flying wings


----------



## AMCKen (Apr 20, 2009)

New one...
This use to be a Noorduyn UC-64 Noresman but was "greatly altered" for a French TV series to portray a ...?



[/QUOTE]

Not much Norseman left there.


----------



## Graeme (Apr 21, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Not much Norseman left there.



Nope.  
Replica Vs Original...








(Not a Breguet Wayne.)


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 21, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Here's more on the NRC Pterodactyl (part way down the page).
> 
> British flying wings



Thanks very much AMCKen for your thoughtfulness.
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 21, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Nope.
> Replica Vs Original...
> 
> 
> ...



The original is a Latécoère 17, no merit of mine: "Latecoere" is plainly written on the vertical fin as the french use to do......

Concerning the Lockeed Sirius 8 of "justice for Hunggary" and the flight from Labrador to Hungary pilot (last man to the right) was Endresz Gyorgy as it is reported on the very interesting paper clipping you were kind enought to let us have....I also found on the net a very interesting and comprehensive article on this flight ...written in Hungarian!...which I emailed to a hungarian friend of mine in New Zealand who in turn translated it into English and then re-emailed it to me...so as you can see quite a roundabout way....
Wonders of modern technology!
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 21, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> "Latecoere" is plainly written on the vertical fin as the french use to do......



I thought of removing it before uploading, but I like quick endings Carson!


----------



## kration (Apr 21, 2009)

farmersboy said:


> I can't remember the name of the program without Googling, and wasn't there someone famous lost in one that blew up prematurely?



Joseph P. Kennedy, Jr. was killed in a BQ-8 during Operation Aphrodite (BQ-8 = a converted liberator).


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 21, 2009)

Help needed please..
Do help me identify the stubby US navy fighter as per pic attached.
Thanks very much
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (Apr 21, 2009)

I reckon that is the Vought Pirate Carson, though I've only seen photo's from underneath it before (so at least it flew!)


----------



## verner (Apr 21, 2009)

I think this was the original:


----------



## Graeme (Apr 22, 2009)

verner said:


> I think this was the original:



G'day Verner.
Your photo depicts a Naval Air Test Centre (NATC) Pirate, No.122481, which was used as an electronics test aircraft at Patuxent N.A.S. in August 1950 and accumulated 68 hours before being retired in November 1950 with a total time of 77 hours. The "properties" of the photograph are wrong, it's not an *X*F6U-1 but a production F6U-1.

Here's the family...


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 22, 2009)

Waynos said:


> I reckon that is the Vought Pirate Carson, though I've only seen photo's from underneath it before (so at least it flew!)



Thanks very much Waynos I'm glad I supplied a pic of the Pirate you didn't see before
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 22, 2009)

verner said:


> I think this was the original:



Hi Verner,
many thanks for the beautiful pic!
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 22, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day Verner.
> Your photo depicts a Naval Air Test Centre (NATC) Pirate, No.122481, which was used as an electronics test aircraft at Patuxent N.A.S. in August 1950 and accumulated 68 hours before being retired in November 1950 with a total time of 77 hours. The "properties" of the photograph are wrong, it's not an *X*F6U-1 but a production F6U-1.
> 
> Here's the family...



Hi Graeme,
thanks for above very interesting comments and for the Pirate family with silhouettes.
carson1934


----------



## verner (Apr 22, 2009)

Thanks Graeme. As you can see, I don't know much about this AC.


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 23, 2009)

I don't know if this image is readable. 
I found it on the net and don't really know what it is. Is there someone who could enlighten me?
carson1934


----------



## AMCKen (Apr 23, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Nope.
> Replica Vs Original...
> 
> 
> ...



Well, they didn't do TOO bad considering they started with a Norseman.


----------



## AMCKen (Apr 23, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Help needed please..
> Do help me identify the stubby US navy fighter as per pic attached.
> Thanks very much
> carson1934



Note the tail-end of the XB-43 Jet(Mix)Master behind the Pirate.

XB-43 Jetmaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 24, 2009)

[/IMG]

You can read easily "Phoenix" on the fuselage. 
Is this a replica from the movie made in the studios or the delivery of a nightmarish manufacturer?
Your comments are welcome!
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 24, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Is this a replica from the movie made in the studios?



Yes. From the Movie "Flight of the Phoenix." There were *two* flying props made. One for the ground, take-off and low flying shots which was made by Tallmantz Inc. and was a hodgepodge of various aircraft parts...





...and the other, made for a high flying scene at the end of the movie, was a butchered North American O-47...


----------



## Graeme (Apr 24, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Well, they didn't do TOO bad considering they started with a Norseman.



Yeah I agree! The guy responsible for the replica was a Frenchman - Nicholas Roland Payen. Remember him?...


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 25, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Yes. From the Movie "Flight of the Phoenix." There were *two* flying props made. One for the ground, take-off and low flying shots which was made by Tallmantz Inc. and was a hodgepodge of various aircraft parts...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks very much Graeme you are as usual an unquenchable source of information.....
What about trying to identify my post #2988 of Apr. 23?
Have a nice day
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 25, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> What about trying to identify my post #2988 of Apr. 23?



Carson, do you know the answer or are you looking for an answer?


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 25, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Carson, do you know the answer or are you looking for an answer?



No, I don't know the answer I'm looking for one.....   
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 25, 2009)

Hi Graene I'm sorry bothering you again.
In your post #2923 of 4-10-2009 in reply to Waynos' post #2917 of same date you say that pic represents a Wellington MkII (L4250), a testbed for a 40mm Vickers gun in a dorsal turret with connected paraphernalia.
Now in googling thru the Wellington websites I read more than once that such a prototype was the Wellington Mark VII.
On the other hand the Wellington with ID n. L4250 seems to be a Type 298 Wellington Mark II powered by Rolls Royce Merlin engines of which a beautiful pic exists in 1000aircraftphotos (obviously without turret)[picture enclosed].
Naturally Google isn't by any means a bible however I can't help being a bit confused:
Maybe you could explain. Thanks
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 26, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> No, I don't know the answer I'm looking for one.....
> carson1934



Then we're stuffed. Unless you can retrace your steps and provide more clues, the site and the "environment" (eg, pre-war British Ultralights) in which you were looking when you found it, then it's going to be difficult unless someone instantly recognises it. 



carson1934 said:


> Now in googling thru the Wellington websites I read more than once that such a prototype was the Wellington Mark VII.



From what I've read Carson no true Mk.VII was ever built. There was one Mk.II that was* intended* for conversion to Mk.VII standard but in the end became a test-bed for the Rolls-Royce Merlin 60. The contract for 150 examples was cancelled at an early stage.

L4250, the first MK.II prototype was subjected to many armament trials...


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 26, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Then we're stuffed. Unless you can retrace your steps and provide more clues, the site and the "environment" (eg, pre-war British Ultralights) in which you were looking when you found it, then it's going to be difficult unless someone instantly recognises it.
> I'm trying to retrace my steps. For the time being I know that this ultralight was built in the mid thirties and only one prototype flew though the original idea was of producing a large quantity.
> I'll try to recover name and company.
> carson1934
> ...


OK thanks it's all clear now
carson1934


----------



## AMCKen (Apr 26, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Yeah I agree! The guy responsible for the replica was a Frenchman - Nicholas Roland Payen. Remember him?...



Pa.350 ??


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 26, 2009)

Here we go with the next one...who wants to challenge? this time I know...
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 26, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Pa.350 ??



Nicely done Ken!  



carson1934 said:


> Here we go with the next one...who wants to challenge? this time I know...
> carson1934



Italian?


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 27, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Nicely done Ken!
> 
> 
> 
> Italian?



No Graeme, it ain't italian...I'll give you a clue: a bit more eastward....
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 27, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> No Graeme, it ain't italian...I'll give you a clue: a bit more eastward....
> carson1934



The Yakovlev AIR-7 then?...


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 27, 2009)

Yes Graeme, it is the Yakovlev AIR/7 indeed. What a nice racer of the thirties!
carson1934


----------



## AMCKen (Apr 27, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Nicely done Ken!
> 
> 
> Thanks. I can see one would need a lot of luck on the take-off and landing with this one. Zero visibility out of that cockpit.


----------



## AMCKen (Apr 27, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Yes Graeme, it is the Yakovlev AIR/7 indeed. What a nice racer of the thirties!
> carson1934



Along the lines of the Lockheed Sirius, GeeBee QED and Y, among others.


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 28, 2009)

Hi Graeme
this is for you......
Re my post #2988 of 4/23/09
the submitted schematics is a german motorglider Gruse Bo-15/1 built by a german company called Gruse and flown by ace E.Udet in the thirties. It should have been massproduced but only one was made and flown.
carson1934
Gruse Bo-15-1


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 28, 2009)

Here I go again...this is an easy one....
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 28, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Re my post #2988 of 4/23/09



Glad you found what you lost Carson.



carson1934 said:


> Here I go again...this is an easy one....
> carson1934



The Bucker Bu 182 C Kornett.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Apr 28, 2009)

I have found this beautiful biplane...


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 28, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> I have found this beautiful biplane...



Hi Emilio

yes, it is a beautiful thing however t looks to me more a monoplane with parasol wing than a biplane.....I've seen it before but can't locate it...could be a Piero Magni ?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 28, 2009)

I don't want to stuff this forum but I'm coming across a very interesting story concerning item herewith attached which I'll be glad to share with you (as soon as I translate it because I'm pretty sure it's only available in our beautiful but useless language).
If you guess what it is I'll go ahead and do it.
Cheers carson19348) 8) 8)


----------



## Graeme (Apr 28, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> I have found this beautiful biplane...



G'day Emilio! Is that the Italian *Jona J-6* experimental Sesquiplane with the tilting wing mechanism?...


----------



## Graeme (Apr 28, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> If you guess what it is I'll go ahead and do it.
> Cheers carson19348) 8) 8)



The Internet is a haystack Carson, but with Google the needle can be found.  

*The Avia LM 02 Glider*

Translated version of http://www.airwar.ru/enc/glider/lm02.html


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Apr 29, 2009)

As ever, you are right Graeme


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 29, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> As ever, you are right Graeme



Hi Emilio,
with my post #3012 I told a lot of nonsense in reply to your challenge.
The irony is that I have been having pics of Jona J-6 for a long time in my collection and I was stupid enough not to locate them!
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 29, 2009)

For the benefit of the members of this forum I'm enclosing schematics of a Jona project of the years 1935-36 concerning a fighter with both engines housed in the fuselage which should have been designated Jona J-10.
Enjoy!
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (Apr 29, 2009)

Hmmm, picture this little scene. Somewhere in Germany Claude Dornier looks at the above drawing in an aviation magazine and chuckles loudly at the comical design before him. Then he pauses, fingers his chin thoughfully and says' Hmmmm, I wonder......?'


----------



## Graeme (Apr 30, 2009)

New one...


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 30, 2009)

Hi gentlemen,
Mai I propose identification of a little known italian trainer of WWII?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 30, 2009)

Graeme said:


> New one...



I-Ae/24 "Calquin"?   
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 30, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Hmmm, picture this little scene. Somewhere in Germany Claude Dornier looks at the above drawing in an aviation magazine and chuckles loudly at the comical design before him. Then he pauses, fingers his chin thoughfully and says' Hmmmm, I wonder......?'


Yeah, could have been.....but the "Pfeil" certainly looked nicer!
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Apr 30, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I-Ae/24 "Calquin"?
> carson1934



Nope. It originated "miles" from Argentina.



carson1934 said:


> Hi gentlemen,
> Mai I propose identification of a little known italian trainer of WWII?
> carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 30, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Nope. It originated "miles" from Argentina.



Miles M-33 "Monitor"?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 30, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Nope. It originated "miles" from Argentina.



Yes Graeme it is the SAIMAN 202 and yours should be Miles M-33 "Monitor" the definitive type with the dome shaped turret on the back
carson1934


----------



## Patoruzu (Apr 30, 2009)

Hi Graeme - Miles Monitors


----------



## Waynos (Apr 30, 2009)

The Saiman 202 looks very 'Milesian' itself.


----------



## Graeme (Apr 30, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Miles M-33 "Monitor"?
> carson1934





Patoruzu said:


> Hi Graeme - Miles Monitors



Yep!



Waynos said:


> The Saiman 202 looks very 'Milesian' itself.



Now Wayne, you're not suggesting Mr Miles saw a photo of the Saiman in an aviation magazine and thought Hmmmm....?


----------



## carson1934 (May 1, 2009)

Here I go with the next one...who wants to try? (it must be easy for you)
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 1, 2009)




----------



## carson1934 (May 1, 2009)

Graeme said:


>



Congratulations Graeme it took you only 20' to guess what it was...I told you it wasn't difficult.....  

Maybe you could help me with something else:
I'm experiencing difficulties in transmitting images from Internet to the forum via Photobucket.
Do you suggest I should use imageshack? Could you shortly describe a step by step procedure? [-o< [-o< 
Thanks for your time and patience
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 1, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I'm experiencing difficulties in transmitting images from Internet to the forum via Photobucket.
> Do you suggest I should use imageshack? Could you shortly describe a step by



G'day Carson. Where I am the internet is VERY slow and as a result when trying to upload an image via the Forum I usually found myself "logged out" before it was completed. One solution is Photobucket or Imageshack where you can wait while uploading, then cut, then log onto the Forum and paste. It also provides a useful "upload indicator" to tell you how well the upload is progressing. I tried Photobucket a few times but just found Imageshack easier. Having said that I have noticed Imageshack images do tend to disappear from the forum, I've no idea why. 

I first downloaded Mozilla Firefox and then Imageshack toolbar...

ImageShack® - Tstart

"Extension" allows you to click right and upload to Imageshack (very useful)...

ImageShack® - Extension

Should look like this. The upload "button" is the holy grail to the system...





Good luck and let us know how it went!

And of course, a new one...


----------



## carson1934 (May 1, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day Carson. Where I am the internet is VERY slow and as a result when trying to upload an image via the Forum I usually found myself "logged out" before it was completed. One solution is Photobucket or Imageshack where you can wait while uploading, then cut, then log onto the Forum and paste. It also provides a useful "upload indicator" to tell you how well the upload is progressing. I tried Photobucket a few times but just found Imageshack easier. Having said that I have noticed Imageshack images do tend to disappear from the forum, I've no idea why.
> 
> I first downloaded Mozilla Firefox and then Imageshack toolbar...
> 
> ...


Thanks very very much Graeme I knew I could rely on you
I'll try tomorrow to download image shack (now its getting rather late and the missus is calling up for dinner!) and of course I'll let you know.
Concerning your image it looks a little bit....dilapidated!
Cheers
carson


----------



## Waynos (May 1, 2009)

Hi Graeme, don't know what yours is but I'm going to have a good think, also, does anyone have any info about this project? It is a large twin hull flying boat that wears the fictional titles of 'Scottish Airways' and has a curious cockpit arrangement right in the middle of the wing all on its own. Any ideas guys?


----------



## Waynos (May 1, 2009)

Is the one with the pranged nose a Halifax?


----------



## Graeme (May 1, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Is the one with the pranged nose a Halifax?



Yep. I forget the full story but it was a mid-air collision and surprisingly all the crew survived.



Waynos said:


> Any ideas guys?



Hi Wayne. In your possession or an image from the net? Contrarotating turboprops? So maybe early post WWII design but it looks kinda 1930's in concept, although Saunders Roe had some odd ideas for the future...





What British companies would have been capable of building such a plane early post-war? Shorts, Saunders Roe and maybe even Blackburn? Interesting.

Edit: Clutching at straws now. Did Supermarine give up the "dream" of flying boats after the War?


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 1, 2009)

I think I saw something like that in either Popular Mechanics or Mechanics Illustrated. If it is the same plane, the center "cockpit" was actually an observation deck. 

But I do not remember it being a flying boat.


----------



## Waynos (May 2, 2009)

I found the picture while looking through my pics on my pc but I cannot rtemember ever seeing it before so I don't know where it came from. Somewhere on the net is the likely answer but I would usually save some information with it too if I have done that but all I have is this image that is labelled 'Scotland Twin Hull'. I agree with your estimate of its age Graeme, it looks more 1939 than 1945 if you know what I mean.

Supermarine did design a large post war flying boat but this project doesn't bear any obvious similarities with it or any other design that I am aware of, it really is a complete mystery to me.

I have just assumed the 'bubble' in the middle is the cockpit because I can't see any other evidence of one so it may not be


----------



## carson1934 (May 2, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> I think I saw something like that in either Popular Mechanics or Mechanics Illustrated. If it is the same plane, the center "cockpit" was actually an observation deck.
> 
> But I do not remember it being a flying boat.



Yes, Viking, I agree: I also read something many years ago on Popular Mechanics
about this topic.
I'm investigating "Forked ghosts" and see what happens.
By the way, out of curiosity, why is a pic of the Valmet VL "Humu" available into your post?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 2, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Hi Graeme, don't know what yours is but I'm going to have a good think, also, does anyone have any info about this project? It is a large twin hull flying boat that wears the fictional titles of 'Scottish Airways' and has a curious cockpit arrangement right in the middle of the wing all on its own. Any ideas guys?



Forked Ghosts.
If you have the patience of perusing through the above website ("Forked Ghosts") you have a very good chance of finding what you are looking for.
Good luck!   
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 2, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> But I do not remember it being a flying boat.



Good point. On closer examination there appears to be a wheel visible on the bottom of the starboard passenger container. It reminds me a little of a Bleriot...







Waynos said:


> all I have is this image that is labelled 'Scotland Twin Hull'.



Didn't "Scottish Aviation" have aspirations for one of Brunelli's designs, the UB-14? Maybe they had higher ambitions with the concept and an airline company to boot.


----------



## carson1934 (May 2, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day Carson. Where I am the internet is VERY slow and as a result when trying to upload an image via the Forum I usually found myself "logged out" before it was completed. One solution is Photobucket or Imageshack where you can wait while uploading, then cut, then log onto the Forum and paste. It also provides a useful "upload indicator" to tell you how well the upload is progressing. I tried Photobucket a few times but just found Imageshack easier. Having said that I have noticed Imageshack images do tend to disappear from the forum, I've no idea why.
> 
> I first downloaded Mozilla Firefox and then Imageshack toolbar...
> 
> ...



ImageShack - Image Hosting :: dh773025555.jpg
I just registered and logged in with Imageshack. Let's see what happens!
carson1934


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> By the way, out of curiosity, why is a pic of the Valmet VL "Humu" available into your post?
> carson1934




I've always loved the Brester Buffalo/Huma and feel it's never been given it's credits.


----------



## carson1934 (May 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> ImageShack - Image Hosting :: dh773025555.jpg
> I just registered and logged in with Imageshack. Let's see what happens!
> carson1934



It wirks, it works...Hooray! Thanks a million
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> It wirks, it works...Hooray! Thanks a million
> carson1934



ImageShack - Image Hosting :: dh773025555.jpg
Please bear with me this is just another try and then I'll leave you in peace!
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> ImageShack - Image Hosting :: dh773025555.jpg
> Please bear with me this is just another try and then I'll leave you in peace!
> carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


>



Another try but this is final...sorry, sorry  
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 2, 2009)

Here's another challenge.....
carson1934


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 2, 2009)

PZL-106A Kruk Crop Duster?


----------



## carson1934 (May 3, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> PZL-106A Kruk Crop Duster?



Yep, viking, that's what it is....
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 3, 2009)

I have been trying to identify this french aircraft, I was thinking it might have been a SIPA but till now I haven't been able to find out.
Anybody to my rescue?
carson1934


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 3, 2009)

It's a SNCAN Nord 1101 Ramier, based on the ME-208.


----------



## kration (May 3, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I have been trying to identify this french aircraft, I was thinking it might have been a SIPA but till now I haven't been able to find out.
> Anybody to my rescue?
> carson1934



I think it's a post-war French built version of the Messerschmitt ME208. After the war versions were built by Nord as the 'Noralpha" or 'Ramier'.


----------



## carson1934 (May 3, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> It's a SNCAN Nord 1101 Ramier, based on the ME-208.



Thanks very much Viking it's a pleasure dealing with you
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 3, 2009)

kration said:


> I think it's a post-war French built version of the Messerschmitt ME208. After the war versions were built by Nord as the 'Noralpha" or 'Ramier'.



Thanks for your help kration
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 4, 2009)

Another challenge gentlemen concerning a nifty biplane of the thirties...
carson1934


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 4, 2009)

This one I give up on.


----------



## carson1934 (May 5, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Another challenge gentlemen concerning a nifty biplane of the thirties...
> carson1934



It is a chinese biplane of 1937 called:
Liuchow Kwangsi Type Three
More particulars at:
Liuchow Kwangsi Type 3 - fighter.


----------



## Graeme (May 5, 2009)

Must be time for a chopper...


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 5, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> It is a chinese biplane of 1937 called:
> Liuchow Kwangsi Type Three
> More particulars at:
> Liuchow Kwangsi Type 3 - fighter.



Nice!


----------



## carson1934 (May 6, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Must be time for a chopper...



A Kaman chopper of the fities maybe? Not many around with intermeshing rotorblades...
carson1934


----------



## AMCKen (May 6, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> A Kaman chopper of the fities maybe? Not many around with intermeshing rotorblades...
> carson1934



I was thinking Flettner, but couldn't pin it down anymore than that.


----------



## Waynos (May 6, 2009)

Not German, French. The Aerocentr N.C.2001


----------



## Graeme (May 6, 2009)

Yep!


----------



## Waynos (May 6, 2009)

Janes 1949 was it Graeme? Cos thats where I found it


----------



## carson1934 (May 7, 2009)

[URL=http://img19.imageshack.us

Next challenge, this shouldn't be so easy but there is a clue within the picture....
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 7, 2009)

a few minutes ago image didn't work out let'us hope it does now!
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 7, 2009)

(Pardon my computer ignorance, but what's meant by "Share this with Twitter?")


----------



## carson1934 (May 7, 2009)

Graeme said:


> (Pardon my computer ignorance, but what's meant by "Share this with Twitter?")



Hi Graeme,

yep, it is the dutch dragonfly.
"Share this with twitter" comes along when I upload thru imageshack. Forgive my PC...
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 7, 2009)

talking about choppers...this is my next challenge
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 7, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> talking about choppers...this is my next challenge
> carson1934



Brazil's first helicopter, designed with a little help from Dr. Focke.





New one. A slice of cutaway...


----------



## Waynos (May 7, 2009)

We're still thinking about GOR 339 here aren't we? How dare they draw that bird with a FRENCH missile on it! 

The BAC TSR 2!


----------



## Graeme (May 7, 2009)

Waynos said:


> We're still thinking about GOR 339 here aren't we? How dare they draw that bird with a FRENCH missile on it!
> 
> The BAC TSR 2!



Your green light was off and I didn't expect you back for at least 24hrs!  

IF the AS.30 missile offends you, then images like this must really hurt...


----------



## Waynos (May 7, 2009)

Ouch yes! How can a programme be cancelled with 40 planes in construction??? The mind boggles at such wanton vandalism


----------



## carson1934 (May 8, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Ouch yes! How can a programme be cancelled with 40 planes in construction??? The mind boggles at such wanton vandalism



Yes a great pity...and above all a total waste of taxpayers' maney!
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 8, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Brazil's first helicopter, designed with a little help from Dr. Focke.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, Graeme, you're as usual correct, it is the "Beija Flor" (what a poetic name for such an ugly thing!)
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 8, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> "Beija Flor" (what a poetic name for such an ugly thing!)carson1934



G'day Carson. With some skin on it doesn't look too bad. It reminds me of the Cessna CH-1...








New one...


----------



## AMCKen (May 8, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Your green light was off and I didn't expect you back for at least 24hrs!
> 
> IF the AS.30 missile offends you, then images like this must really hurt...



We Canadians have a similar photo...

http://members.shaw.ca/b.bogdan/Arrow/sadstory.jpg


----------



## AMCKen (May 8, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day Carson. With some skin on it doesn't look too bad. It reminds me of the Cessna CH-1...
> 
> 
> Me too. : )


----------



## carson1934 (May 9, 2009)

Is there someone who is an old member of the forum and wants to answer this?
At page 55 I noticed picture of an aircraft(attached) under post#815 challenged on 12-19-2006 by Flyboy.
I have gone thru many of the following pages but couldn't find a guess (maybe I overlooked it).
What bird is it?
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 9, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Is there someone who is an old member of the forum and wants to answer this?
> At page 55 I noticed picture of an aircraft(attached) under post#815 challenged on 12-19-2006 by Flyboy.
> I have gone thru many of the following pages but couldn't find a guess (maybe I overlooked it).
> What bird is it?
> carson1934



It was answered Carson, but "Blackwolf3945" postings have disappeared. 



> Originally Posted by BlackWolf3945 View Post
> FLYBOYJ's latest is the Kinner 'P'...
> Fade to Black...



The *Kinner P Sportster*


----------



## carson1934 (May 9, 2009)

Graeme said:


> It was answered Carson, but "Blackwolf3945" postings have disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> The *Kinner P Sportster*



Thanks very much Graeme it is indeed the *Kinner P "Sportster"*a 1932 executive.
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 9, 2009)

[URL=http://img7.imageshack.us/

a challenge: can you identify this aircraft being built?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 9, 2009)

I'm experiencing difficulties tonight with ImageShack. Let me try again...
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 9, 2009)

Graeme said:


> New one...







North American F-107A.
Cheers


----------



## Waynos (May 9, 2009)

Carson, is that the mock up for the Blackburn B.103, which later became the Hawker Siddeley Buccaneer? The pic is very small so I can't see it too well I'm afraid.


----------



## Graeme (May 9, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> North American F-107A.
> Cheers



Nicely done!



Waynos said:


> The pic is very small so I can't see it too well I'm afraid.



Wayne it's a "thumbnail". Click left on the image and it brings you to the ImageShack host which shows you the larger version...







carson1934 said:


> Let me try again...carson1934







Canadian? The long nosed Canadair CL-41R Radar Trainer?...However the cockpit looks wrong and why would it be such a poor quality photo?


----------



## AMCKen (May 10, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Thanks very much Graeme it is indeed the *Kinner P "Sportster"*a 1932 executive.
> carson1934



Looks like front exiting exhaust pipes also.


----------



## Waynos (May 10, 2009)

Thanks Graeme. It still looks like the Blackburn design mock up to me, before the implementation of area rule on the design.


----------



## carson1934 (May 10, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Thanks Graeme. It still looks like the Blackburn design mock up to me, before the implementation of area rule on the design.



Sorry Waynos it is no Blackburn this was supposed to be a french bird *SNCAC NC-271/02* which, though in advanced production stage, never flew.
The french planned a large bomber SNCAC-270 which never materialized and the NC-271/02 was supposed to be its reduced scale prototype.
So two miscarriages one after the other.
Prototypes.com/Le Sud-Ouest SO-4000/III. Les maquettes NC-271 SO M-1/2
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (May 11, 2009)

Thanks Carson. I have heard of that one before but never thought of it, there was a flying 'model' of it which I remember seeing mounted Mistel fashion on the back of a Languedoc.

edit, just followed your link and there it is. oops


----------



## Graeme (May 11, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> *SNCAC NC-271/02* which, though in advanced production stage, never flew.
> 
> Prototypes.com/Le Sud-Ouest SO-4000/III. Les maquettes NC-271 SO M-1/2
> carson1934



Good find Carson! I haven't seen the "T" tailed version before.


----------



## carson1934 (May 11, 2009)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8521/unknown11.jpg

Now gentlemen, let's go ahead.
Here's my next challenge, to make things easier it's a 1935 bird from a country in eastern Europe
carson1934


----------



## Patoruzu (May 15, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8521/unknown11.jpg
> 
> Now gentlemen, let's go ahead.
> Here's my next challenge, to make things easier it's a 1935 bird from a country in eastern Europe
> carson1934



Hopfner-Hirtenberger HM-13/34

Salute CARSON

PD
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww1/hm1334.html


----------



## carson1934 (May 15, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> Hopfner-Hirtenberger HM-13/34
> 
> Salute CARSON
> 
> ...



That's it Patoruzu. Congratulations this was a difficult one........How do you like the new blue layout?
carson1934


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 16, 2009)

I'll post one:


----------



## Graeme (May 17, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> I'll post one



G'day VB. it's a nice looking Saab B-18A. 

SAAB B-18A

New one...


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 17, 2009)

Nicely done Graeme!


----------



## carson1934 (May 17, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day VB. it's a nice looking Saab B-18A.
> 
> SAAB B-18A
> 
> New one...



Hi Graeme,
you beat me for about three minutes about the Saab......
Could you give me a clue about the new one? Besides italians not many countries used to manufacture three-engined aircrafts pre WWII....
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 17, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day VB. it's a nice looking Saab B-18A.
> 
> SAAB B-18A
> 
> New one...



On second thought it looks to me like a Dewoitine D-31 without fairings over the wheels of landing gear...
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 17, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> On second thought it looks to me like a Dewoitine D-31 without fairings over the wheels of landing gear...
> carson1934



Sorry Carson, I've been a little preoccupied lately. Yes, it's a French Dewoitine, but a later model than the D-31. This is a colonial multi-role prototype of 1932. The original wheel spats are missing and ended up becoming a ministerial transport re-engined with Clerget 9Ts, as seen in the photo.


----------



## carson1934 (May 18, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Sorry Carson, I've been a little preoccupied lately. Yes, it's a French Dewoitine, but a later model than the D-31. This is a colonial multi-role prototype of 1932. The original wheel spats are missing and ended up becoming a ministerial transport re-engined with Clerget 9Ts, as seen in the photo.



Hello Graeme,
I hope your worries are over, mind you there are plenty of them for everybody!
So I didn't go so far away in guessing the Dewoitine and thanks for the interesting comments. I understand this particular bird has no official number.
To tell you the truth I was debating between a Fokker F-XII and a Dewoitine but I opted for the latter in the end....
Ciao
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 18, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> So I didn't go so far away in guessing the Dewoitine and thanks for the interesting comments. I understand this particular bird has no official number.



Evening Ciao. Maybe I confused you. It is a Dewotine, but not the D-31 and it does have a designation, I just thought that you were going to investigate further. It's the* Dewoitine D.430*...





Shall we try again? Notice that I have a love for French aircraft ...


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 18, 2009)

Graeme said:


>



*Bernard H-52*

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (May 18, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Evening Ciao. Maybe I confused you. It is a Dewotine, but not the D-31 and it does have a designation, I just thought that you were going to investigate further. It's the* Dewoitine D.430*...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It looks pretty much like a Loire...but I don't think it is...this is as far as I can go
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 18, 2009)

Before I go for the day may I submit the attached "easy" £-v challenge?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 18, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> It looks pretty much like a Loire...but I don't think it is...this is as far as I can go
> carson1934



I think I have it *Bernard H/110*
carson1934


----------



## verner (May 18, 2009)

I concur with the Bernard H-110 Carson. Thanks for the "easy" AR-65 also. Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (May 19, 2009)

verner said:


> I concur with the Bernard H-110 Carson. Thanks for the "easy" AR-65 also. Cheers



Hi Verner,
yes it is an Arado AR/65...I knew that challenge wouldn't last long!
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 19, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I think I have it *Bernard H/110*
> carson1934


Sorry, I disagree and insist, IMHO it's a *Bernard H-52* 

Cheers


----------



## Graeme (May 19, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Sorry, I disagree and insist, IMHO it's a *Bernard H-52*
> 
> Cheers



Well done mate! Nice to have you on board! I must admit though, there appears little to distinguish between them...


----------



## carson1934 (May 19, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Well done mate! Nice to have you on board! I must admit though, there appears little to distinguish between them...



Sorry guys I disagree it must be a Bernard H/110; according to my picture (see aviafrance) H/52 has four funny devices sticking out from the wing inside edge (we call it "intradosso" in italian and i don't know the English translation) which are apparently lacking from the submitted picture
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 19, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Sorry guys I disagree it must be a Bernard H/110; according to my picture (see aviafrance) H/52 has four funny devices sticking out from the wing inside edge (we call it "intradosso" in italian and i don't know the English translation) which are apparently lacking from the submitted picture
> carson1934



Hmm, do you mean these BTW?





But also the shape of the engine cowling seems a bit different to me from one and the other plane and made me choose the H-52...


----------



## carson1934 (May 19, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Hmm, do you mean these BTW?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah Marcogrifo that's exactly what I mean and these BTW are utterly invisible on Graeme's original picture therefore I still hold my opinion unless someone is able to read the actual name on the vertical fin as it is normal with french planes......in this case *"UBI MAIOR MINOR CESSAT"*
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (May 19, 2009)

Carson, have you been at the beer? That IS the picture posted by Graeme  Definitely the H.52 as the blisters on the cowling are further forward on the H.110 and the fin root is a different shape and the fin's ribbed structure which is clearly visible on that model is absent here

*Bernard H.110*





Here's one that is a bit different as its not so old. But is it easy or hard?


----------



## verner (May 19, 2009)

Carson, I believe they are correct.

H-52 then 110


----------



## verner (May 19, 2009)

Here's 110


----------



## Storch (May 20, 2009)

The new one is the fairchild dornier 728-100!


----------



## carson1934 (May 20, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Carson, have you been at the beer? That IS the picture posted by Graeme  Definitely the H.52 as the blisters on the cowling are further forward on the H.110 and the fin root is a different shape and the fin's ribbed structure which is clearly visible on that model is absent here
> 
> *Bernard H.110*
> 
> ...



Hi Waynos,
I must admit I was wrong and I congratulate for your excellent eyesight (maybe when you are 75 as I am your sight might just not be so good).
As to your very polite remark whether I have been at the beer I wish to point out that as a good italian I do not drink beer but wine (which is excellent in my region)
regards
carson1934


----------



## Patoruzu (May 20, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi Waynos,
> I must admit I was wrong and I congratulate for your excellent eyesight (maybe when you are 75 as I am your sight might just not be so good).
> As to your very polite remark whether I have been at the beer I wish to point out that as a good italian I do not drink beer but wine (which is excellent in my region)
> regards
> carson1934



Ciao Carson Iam an "Italiano nato all´estero" Veneto heritage Good Wine too, But I preefer allways a good cool Beer!

Salute


----------



## carson1934 (May 20, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> Ciao Carson Iam an "Italiano nato all´estero" Veneto heritage Good Wine too, But I preefer allways a good cool Beer!
> 
> Salute



Ciao Patoruzu,
well everybody has his own taste....
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 20, 2009)

Waynos said:


> easy or hard?



Well it was easy for Storch. I thought it may have been a Sukhoi.

Here's my airliner...


----------



## Patoruzu (May 20, 2009)

Breda Zapata Z308


----------



## carson1934 (May 20, 2009)

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4598/unknownxxi.jpg

this is my next challenge....
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (May 20, 2009)

Hi Carson, wine can blur the vision too. Must be why I need spectacles!

Gotta love the Z308, I do have a soft spot for big propliners that nobody wanted.

I believe the latest one is the Ried Rambler?


----------



## Graeme (May 20, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Gotta love the Z308, I do have a soft spot for big propliners that nobody wanted.
> 
> I believe the latest one is the Ried Rambler?



I thought by "shopping" Pan American on the side it would throw you guys off the trail! Wrong.
(Did you also notice the BOAC insignia on the tail?)
You beat me by 10 minutes Wayne. The Curtiss-Reid Rambler III. CF-BIB was the last flying, which was written off in September 1946.

Reid Rambler

Very distinctive...


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 20, 2009)

Graeme said:


> I thought by "shopping" Pan American on the side it would throw you guys off the trail! Wrong



Dammit, I fell for that.....


----------



## carson1934 (May 21, 2009)

Graeme said:


> I thought by "shopping" Pan American on the side it would throw you guys off the trail! Wrong.
> (Did you also notice the BOAC insignia on the tail?)
> You beat me by 10 minutes Wayne. The Curtiss-Reid Rambler III. CF-BIB was the last flying, which was written off in September 1946.
> 
> ...


The "very distinctive" looks to me (with spectacles) like the Loire 30 of 1932, only one built....
carson1934

The BOAC insignia e PAA logo on Breda Zappata (an airliner that wasn't sold to anybody) was tricky indeed but you beat me on that for a matter of minutes.....


----------



## carson1934 (May 21, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Hi Carson, wine can blur the vision too. Must be why I need spectacles!
> 
> Gotta love the Z308, I do have a soft spot for big propliners that nobody wanted.
> 
> I believe the latest one is the Ried Rambler?



Hi Waynos,
yeah, as confirmed also by Graeme, it is the *Reid Rambler*.....
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 21, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> The "very distinctive" looks to me (with spectacles) like the Loire 30 of 1932, only one built....
> carson1934



That's the one. A three-seat night reconnaissance aircraft.

The images come from a military aircraft card system produced in the late eighties and early nineties that you purchased on a monthly basis. Superseded now by the internet, they are however a good source of photos and for reasons I don't fully understand a large portion of them were French. Interestingly they were printed in Italy.

Another...


----------



## carson1934 (May 21, 2009)

Graeme said:


> That's the one. A three-seat night reconnaissance aircraft.
> 
> The images come from a military aircraft card system produced in the late eighties and early nineties that you purchased on a monthly basis. Superseded now by the internet, they are however a good source of photos and for reasons I don't fully understand a large portion of them were French. Interestingly they were printed in Italy.
> 
> Another...



This is a Potez-41 BN5...a very ugly thing...but thanks for submitting your pic which is much nicer than the one I have 
carson1934
P.S. By the way could you disclose name of the card system you are referring to


----------



## carson1934 (May 21, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> This is a Potez-41 BN5...a very ugly thing...but thanks for submitting your pic which is much nicer than the one I have
> carson1934
> P.S. By the way could you disclose name of the card system you are referring to



A bit more information: according to "Ugolok Neba" (forgive my transliteration, my former russian teacher would be horrified) this bird was finally called 410 intended as a night bomber but crashed in late 1934 killing his pilot and no prodution followed.


----------



## Waynos (May 21, 2009)

I've never seen that Potez before. What an utterly bizarre looking plane! But why am I surprised, it is French. They had a flair for making bizarre shapes flyable long before the advent of fly by wire


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 21, 2009)

Thanks for posting this rare birds, Graeme, it's really challenging for me to get them (and in fact I usually don't  )



Waynos said:


> I've never seen that Potez before. What an utterly bizarre looking plane! But why am I surprised, it is French. They had a flair for making bizarre shapes flyable long before the advent of fly by wire


Yep, I agree, most of the strangest and ugliest aircrafts built in that period were french, very peculiar machines...


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 21, 2009)

Since we are going with ugly planes:






as yes it did fly.


----------



## Waynos (May 21, 2009)

I've never seen a photo before, only a drawing and a cutaway and neither of those showed it on floats, but that looks remarkably like A Goupil's 'Steam Duck'' aeroplane of about 1884?


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 21, 2009)

Well that lasted 19 minutes - lol

Nicely done sir.

"Glenn Curtiss built this machine in 1916 to help his defense of the Wright Brothers' patent lawsuit. It was designed in 1883 by Frenchman Alexander Goupil, Curtiss' example flew with a 100 Hp. Curtiss OXX powerplant The seaplane version in the picture was heavy and could barely hop, fitted with wheels it flew successfully in 1917. It did not contribute to a successful defense."


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 21, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Since we are going with ugly planes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OMG


----------



## carson1934 (May 21, 2009)

Talking about ugly planes this one, which is the next challenge, deserves its fair share.....
carson1934


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 21, 2009)

THK-13, all wing glider.


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 22, 2009)




----------



## Graeme (May 22, 2009)

The English Electric P.5 Kingston.

Nice job with the THK-13 by the way. I was scouring through Russian types.

I'll raise you another flying-boat...


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 22, 2009)

Excellent job.

Wish it was due to superior knowledge, but I was looking at Norton and just happened to stumble across it.


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 23, 2009)

You've got me on this one.


----------



## Graeme (May 23, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> You've got me on this one.



I think I got myself with this one as well VB. It's the English Electric Ayr. The 'clever' stub wings appear to be its undoing, digging into the sea and as a result never flew. I can't find any illustrations on the net.

English Electric Ayr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(It was also designed to carry bombs on the lower wings but these would have been under water at take-off)


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 23, 2009)

Graeme said:


> I think I got myself with this one as well VB. It's the English Electric Ayr. The 'clever' stub wings appear to be its undoing, digging into the sea and as a result never flew. I can't find any illustrations on the net.
> 
> English Electric Ayr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> (It was also designed to carry bombs on the lower wings but these would have been under water at take-off)


Ah, got me too, I was thinking about some Supermarine early model...

OK, can you identify this?





Cheers


----------



## Graeme (May 23, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> OK, can you identify this?



G'day Marcogrifo. Beautiful aeroplane. The Spartan Cruiser II, registration YI-AAA of Iraqi Airways.

Spartans

New one...


----------



## carson1934 (May 23, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day Marcogrifo. Beautiful aeroplane. The Spartan Cruiser II, registration YI-AAA of Iraqi Airways.
> 
> Spartans
> 
> New one...



I dunno what's this plane on stilts but in spite of the heat I find the courage to submit a new challenge before I melt down (today's temperature here 30° and over)
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 23, 2009)

Graeme said:


> I think I got myself with this one as well VB. It's the English Electric Ayr. The 'clever' stub wings appear to be its undoing, digging into the sea and as a result never flew. I can't find any illustrations on the net.
> 
> English Electric Ayr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> (It was also designed to carry bombs on the lower wings but these would have been under water at take-off)



Hi Graeme,
that was a tricky one...I didn't go to sleep till 2AM to find out what it might have been....I too was thinking about some kind of Supermarine flying boat....anyway it is an interesting item even if it refused to fly
carson1934o


----------



## verner (May 23, 2009)

Looks like it could be an A-17 prototype.


----------



## Graeme (May 23, 2009)

verner said:


> Looks like it could be an A-17 prototype.



That'll do me Verner. It's the Northrop XBT-2.


----------



## Graeme (May 23, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I dunno what's this plane on stilts but in spite of the heat I find the courage to submit a new challenge before I melt down (today's temperature here 30° and over)
> carson1934



46 degrees here last summer carson!


Your photo is the *Gourdou-Leseurre GL-832 HY*


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 23, 2009)

Maybe too easy, but I go for this:






Cheers


----------



## Graeme (May 24, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Maybe too easy, but I go for this:



G'day Marcogrifo. A few details...


----------



## verner (May 24, 2009)

Graeme, Thanks for the wonderful Spartan link. I didn't know much about the "Clipper" at all. Cheers.


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 24, 2009)

Thanks Graeme.
hehe, I know it was too easy...


----------



## carson1934 (May 24, 2009)

Graeme said:


> 46 degrees here last summer carson!
> 
> 
> Your photo is the *Gourdou-Leseurre GL-832 HY*



I know Graeme but May in Arezzo is not January in Alice Springs!
It is indeed the Gourdou-Leseurre GL-832HY
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 24, 2009)

Hello gentlemen,
this flying boat did fly......
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 24, 2009)

Hi Carson, that should be the *C.A.M.S. 37A*
Ciao


----------



## carson1934 (May 25, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Hi Carson, that should be the *C.A.M.S. 37A*
> Ciao



Yes, Marcogrifo it is a CAMS37A
I knew it wouldn't last long with a spotter of your caliber....I will think later of something more adequate
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 25, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I know Graeme but May in Arezzo is not January in Alice Springs!



Ha! That was Western NSW. Would have been even hotter at AS. Some towns had a competition at the time to see who would be the hottest: I think Ivanhoe won with 47. Tell me Carson, with your international jewelling experience did you ever pick up opals at Lightning Ridge or Cooper Pedy when you were in Australia?

New one...


----------



## carson1934 (May 25, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Ha! That was Western NSW. Would have been even hotter at AS. Some towns had a competition at the time to see who would be the hottest: I think Ivanhoe won with 47. Tell me Carson, with your international jewelling experience did you ever pick up opals at Lightning Ridge or Cooper Pedy when you were in Australia?
> 
> New one...



Hi Graeme,
I used to buy lots of opals in Australia for re-sale in Italy of course (though opals in Italy are considered an ill-luck stone!) and I usually bought them thru a wholesaler in Adelaide. However I was once in Coober Pedy but just to visit, what an experience!
Concerning your bird I have no idea what it is, I'll have to wait till Marcogrifo or Krabat wake up and tell me...
(By the way yesterday in Arezzo 37° the second hottest city in Italy)
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 25, 2009)

Whilst the experienced lot is pondering over Graeme's challenge, let me submit the following which must be a lot easier
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Ha! That was Western NSW. Would have been even hotter at AS. Some towns had a competition at the time to see who would be the hottest: I think Ivanhoe won with 47. Tell me Carson, with your international jewelling experience did you ever pick up opals at Lightning Ridge or Cooper Pedy when you were in Australia?
> 
> New one...



I don't know but it looks like it will rock backwards and forwards for two minutes if you put 50p in the slot


Er, what happens to the prop when it is in the water?


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 25, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Whilst the experienced lot is pondering over Graeme's challenge, let me submit the following which must be a lot easier
> carson1934








I go for the *SNCAO CAO.30*
Cheers


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 25, 2009)

Graeme said:


> New one...



*Levy Biche LB.2*






Cheers


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2009)

Probably waaaay to easy but here goes


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 25, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Probably waaaay to easy but here goes



I think it's the prototype of *Blohm und Voss BV 141*






Not so easy, anyway... 

And now guess this:




Cheers


----------



## Waynos (May 25, 2009)

Yes, thats the one. I was hoping the angle would make it look more conventional, it does bear a slim resembance, in that view, of the previous A-17


----------



## Flyboy2 (May 25, 2009)

Jeez Marcogrifo!! Ever play aviaquiz?


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 25, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Yes, thats the one. I was hoping the angle would make it look more conventional, it does bear a slim resembance, in that view, of the previous A-17


hehe you almost did it, Waynos 
Infact, at the first glance I was unable to identify the correct shape of the plane 

@Flyboy2: nope, but I'm used to play another aviation quiz online many years ago...
Unfortunately I can't remember now how it was called.

Anyway, believe me I'm not a aviation quiz guru, it's only a lucky hand 

Cheers


----------



## AMCKen (May 26, 2009)

Concerning the Levy Biche LB.2: only 135 mph on 300hp? Must be lots of drag there.


----------



## AMCKen (May 26, 2009)

"The Spartan Cruiser II, registration YI-AAA of Iraqi Airways."

Ah, not the same Spartan as the 'Executive'. (Spartan Executive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


----------



## Graeme (May 26, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> And now guess this:



G'day Marcogrifo. The SIAI-Marchetti SM.101?


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 26, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day Marcogrifo. The SIAI-Marchetti SM.101?


Yes, Graeme, that is 

Seems I need to dig some books to find something really difficult to identify...
Cheers


----------



## Waynos (May 26, 2009)

I quite like this picture, is it any good for you?


----------



## carson1934 (May 26, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> I go for the *SNCAO CAO.30*
> Cheers



Yes it is the CAO/30 now I must look into my aviation books and try to find something reeeeally difficult!
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 26, 2009)

Waynos said:


> I quite like this picture, is it any good for you?



Yep. the Armstrong Whitworth AW.52G...


----------



## Graeme (May 26, 2009)




----------



## Patoruzu (May 26, 2009)

Could it be a preliminar draw for the Martin P5M-2 Marlin?


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 26, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> Could it be a preliminar draw for the Martin P5M-2 Marlin?


Don't know, but it's indeed a look very similar, tipical Martin's fashion to built big flying boats. 

P.S. 
There's something puzzles me about engines: in the text it's said are P&W R-2800 (that are radial engines) while the shape of nacelles seems to me better suited for in-line engines instead...


----------



## carson1934 (May 26, 2009)

Hello gentlemen,
I don't want to create confusion but this is my today's challenge
carson1934

P.S. Sorry for the large image but I had to work around it a little bit to make it difficult to identify


----------



## carson1934 (May 26, 2009)

Waynos said:


> I quite like this picture, is it any good for you?



My God, Waynos, I have at least five pics of the AW52/G and never noticed the two small generator activating props stuck onto the legs of the landing gear. Typical british ingenuity.....
carson1934o


----------



## Patoruzu (May 26, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Don't know, but it's indeed a look very similar, tipical Martin's fashion to built big flying boats.
> 
> P.S.
> There's something puzzles me about engines: in the text it's said are P&W R-2800 (that are radial engines) while the shape of nacelles seems to me better suited for in-line engines instead...



Yes and the P5M1 had the more powerfull PW3300.
Could also be a twin engine proyect of the Shin Meiwa PS-1, the nose is more similar to the japanese plane then to the Martin.

Very good Brainstorm GRAEME.


----------



## AMCKen (May 26, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> Yes and the P5M1 had the more powerfull PW3300.
> Could also be a twin engine proyect of the Shin Meiwa PS-1, the nose is more similar to the japanese plane then to the Martin.
> 
> Very good Brainstorm GRAEME.



Er, Wright R-3350. : )


----------



## Graeme (May 27, 2009)

The previous scan is from a 1960 book that talks about the Piaggio as though it had already flown. This scan is from Janes 57' which talks about the prototype being under construction but I've found very little on the internet except a site that mentions it in a Flight magazine of 1958. Safe to presume that it never flew?


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 27, 2009)

OMG, Piaggio?!
LOL, I've thought about EVERYTHING but Piaggio 


Graeme said:


> Safe to presume that it never flew?


I can't say this at 100% but...

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (May 27, 2009)

Graeme said:


> The previous scan is from a 1960 book that talks about the Piaggio as though it had already flown. This scan is from Janes 57' which talks about the prototype being under construction but I've found very little on the internet except a site that mentions it in a Flight magazine of 1958. Safe to presume that it never flew?



I have a number of comprehensive editorials concerning Piaggio and its aircraft section but I never found in any of them *any mention* concerning this bird.
I think it is very safe to assume that it never flew and in the Flight magazine you mention (which I also read) there is a picture of a static model (not even a mock-up) in other words no more than a toy.
Of course I would be happy if evidence to the contrary could be produced.
carson1934


----------



## Patoruzu (May 28, 2009)

Here something more about p.155


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 28, 2009)

Thanks Patoruzu, very interesting infos, I never heard about such project from Piaggio.

It had become a real aircraft IMHO it might have been a noteworthy project, with a certain appeal for foreign market...

Cheers


----------



## Patoruzu (May 28, 2009)

Jane´s present the aircraft as a contender of the Breguet Atlantic.-??


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 28, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> Jane´s present the aircraft as a contender of the Breguet Atlantic.-??


Yep, maybe, after all Italy really bought Breguets 
It's a pity P.155 never flew, a so beautiful flying boat...

OK, another easy guessable machine:






Cheers


----------



## Grampa (May 28, 2009)

Supermarine Type 322 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia correct?


----------



## carson1934 (May 28, 2009)

Hello gentlemen,

No takers for my post #3183?
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 28, 2009)

Grampa said:


> Supermarine Type 322 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia correct?


Yes, it's the Dumbo 

@Carson: sorry, I've no clue about that  even if I think it's an italian design.

Cheers


----------



## Patoruzu (May 28, 2009)

Yeah GRAMPA the Supermarine DUMBO


----------



## carson1934 (May 29, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Yes, it's the Dumbo
> 
> @Carson: sorry, I've no clue about that  even if I think it's an italian design.
> 
> Cheers


Yes Marcogrifo it is an italian design.
*Agusta AG/3* manufactured in 1927 and powered by a 15HP Anzani engine. It should have been the starter of a series of light sport planes but the untimely death of Giovanni Agusta interrupted this plan.
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 29, 2009)

Ah, thank you Carson, I'm happy to see I got right clue at least  but I must admit my knowledge about Agusta planes is very poor  

Ciao


----------



## carson1934 (May 29, 2009)

This nice passenger aircraft is my next challenge....
carson1934


----------



## verner (May 29, 2009)

The nose looks "DeHavillandish". The engines look French. The ass-end looks like a C-54. It's a..a....a...a


----------



## Waynos (May 29, 2009)

Isn't another Agusta Carson? I think it looks like the AZ-8 of the late 1950's


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 29, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Isn't another Agusta Carson? I think it looks like the AZ-8 of the late 1950's


OMG another damned Agusta?!  
Isn't Conte Agusta in that little pic?
Well done Waynos, I think you're right


----------



## Graeme (May 29, 2009)

As per Wayne, the Agusta Zappata AZ 8 L...





Another airliner...


----------



## Waynos (May 29, 2009)

your pic isn't showing for me Graeme


----------



## Graeme (May 29, 2009)

Waynos said:


> your pic isn't showing for me Graeme



Oh well, never mind, it was a derelict Marathon which I'm sure you would have got. Try another one...


----------



## Waynos (May 29, 2009)

That is the Sud Est Armagnac, a Beautiful looking, and deceptively big, aeroplane.







One from me;


----------



## Graeme (May 29, 2009)

Waynos said:


> That is the Sud Est Armagnac, a Beautiful looking, and deceptively big, aeroplane.



I thought the angle might have fooled you! Nice call Wayne!



Waynos said:


> One from me;



The "final vestige" of Mitchell's Spitfire, the Type 391, planned to be powered powered by the Rolls Royce 46H engine?


----------



## Waynos (May 29, 2009)

Spot on! top speed was expected to be in the region of 520mph, Me 262 territory!.

Here's another one


----------



## Graeme (May 29, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Here's another one



The Hiller Ten 99 as first flown with Rotor-Matic rotor.

Found this the other day...


----------



## carson1934 (May 30, 2009)

Graeme said:


> The Hiller Ten 99 as first flown with Rotor-Matic rotor.
> 
> Found this the other day...



What you found the other day looks like the nose of the DFS/Bereznyak 346...or not?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 30, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Isn't another Agusta Carson? I think it looks like the AZ-8 of the late 1950's



This is a cumulative message for *Waynos, Marcogrifo and Graeme*
Yes it is the Agusta AZ-8/L which flew in 1958 and sadly remained a prototype (no pressurized cabin). Well done boys!
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 30, 2009)

Graeme said:


> As per Wayne, the Agusta Zappata AZ 8 L...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice pic, Graeme, it has always been my dream to fly such a derelict plane....
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 30, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> What you found the other day looks like the nose of the DFS/Bereznyak 346...or not?
> carson1934



Sure is.


----------



## carson1934 (May 30, 2009)

This comes next (an easy one for a relaxed weekend).....
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 30, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Nice pic, Graeme, it has always been my dream to fly such a derelict plane....
> carson1934



You've always wanted to fly a Miles/Handley Page Marathon? Why? 



carson1934 said:


> This comes next (an easy one for a relaxed weekend).....
> carson1934



The Aero MB 200

Czechoslovak army 1918-1938 - Page 3 - Military Photos

Another project...


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 30, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Another project...



*McDonnell Model 78 / XHRH-1.*

Try this:






Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (May 30, 2009)

Graeme said:


> You've always wanted to fly a Miles/Handley Page Marathon? Why?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Concerning the Marathan I only tried to be sarcastic and yes it is the Aero MB/200
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 30, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> *McDonnell Model 78 / XHRH-1.*
> 
> Try this:
> 
> ...



I've seen it several times but now I can't locate it.....I know I'll be mad (mi mangerò le mani) when the name come up...
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 30, 2009)

While "eating my hands" (an italian idiom for which I find no English equivalent but maybe Marcogrifo can cast light on this obscure expression) this is my next challenge....
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 30, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> While "eating my hands" (an italian idiom for which I find no English equivalent but maybe Marcogrifo can cast light on this obscure expression) this is my next challenge....
> carson1934


hehe, sorry Carson, my italian-english dictionary can't help


----------



## carson1934 (May 30, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> hehe, sorry Carson, my italian-english dictionary can't help



Thanks very much Marcogrifo...but maybe some of our English speaking friends may come along with an appropriate translation, " *"Mangiarsi le mani" means to regret loosing an opportunity *but the hidden meaning is more intense: Is there an equivalent in English?
Sorry for not talking shop this time (I apologize to the moderators) but I always had a liking for idiomatic expressions!
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 30, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> *McDonnell Model 78 / XHRH-1.*
> 
> Try this:
> 
> ...



Good call on the McDonnell Marogrifo! Your chopper is the Fiat 7002.


----------



## Graeme (May 30, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> While "eating my hands" (an italian idiom for which I find no English equivalent but maybe Marcogrifo can cast light on this obscure expression) this is my next challenge....
> carson1934



Hopfner HA-11/33 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 30, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Good call on the McDonnell Marogrifo! Your chopper is the Fiat 7002.


Thanks Graeme; and yes, that chopper is the Fiat 

The last flying boats submitted by Carson should be the *Wiener-Neustädter-Flugzeugwerke WN-11*.

Cheers


----------



## Waynos (May 30, 2009)

That is the Fiat 7002. Fix it again Tony, indeed


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 31, 2009)

OK, lets try something different...


----------



## carson1934 (May 31, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Hopfner HA-11/33 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I think you are right Graeme though my information says that my pic refers to WNF HV/!! (*the flying boat version not the amphibian*)
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (May 31, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> OK, lets try something different...



Italian? Maybe an early product of Aerauto?

Aerauto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## carson1934 (May 31, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Thanks Graeme; and yes, that chopper is the Fiat
> 
> The last flying boats submitted by Carson should be the *Wiener-Neustädter-Flugzeugwerke WN-11*.
> 
> Cheers



Yes Marcogrifo spot on: I have doublechecked and it is the WNF HV/11.
Cheers
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (May 31, 2009)

While we wait confirmation from Marcogrifo about the Aerauto proposed by Graeme (and totally unknown to me), here's a new challenge of a very beautiful and unfortunate bird....
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (May 31, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Italian? Maybe an early product of Aerauto?


Yep, good catch 
In detail, it was the prototype AER.1

@Carson: thank you


----------



## verner (May 31, 2009)

Pander Post-Jager


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 1, 2009)

verner said:


> Pander Post-Jager



Correct Verner it is the beautiful and ill-fated Pander S-IV built in Holland in 1933.
your turn gentlemen for the next challenge
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 1, 2009)

verner said:


> Pander Post-Jager


Nice catch Verner, I never knew of this nice sleek ill-fated trimotor, thank you Carson for posting 




And nice model too...


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 1, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Nice catch Verner, I never knew of this nice sleek ill-fated trimotor, thank you Carson for posting
> 
> 
> 
> ...



AERONET GCE / IBERONET: The Pander S.IV Postjager / Panderjager / Pechjager
Hi Marcogrifo
Please go to the above mentioned URL if you want to read the very interesting story of the Pander and learn about her ill-fated trip to Australia plus phantastic pictures....very, very cool!
carson19348)8)8)


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 1, 2009)

Wow, very interesting site and story (and pictures too), many thanks Carson


----------



## Waynos (Jun 1, 2009)

Here another chopper;


----------



## Flyboy2 (Jun 1, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Here another chopper;



Hughs XV-9A


----------



## Flyboy2 (Jun 1, 2009)

Here's a new one, and an ugly one at that


----------



## Waynos (Jun 1, 2009)

Isn't it just!

The Polish LWS Zubr! 

Well done with the XV-9.


----------



## verner (Jun 1, 2009)

Speaking of tri-motors. Whatizit?


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 1, 2009)

Waynos said:


> The Polish LWS Zubr!


I see some minor differences from PZL 30 reference photos I've found on web but maybe the plane shown here is the first prototype...

Anyway, good catch!


----------



## Graeme (Jun 2, 2009)

verner said:


> Speaking of tri-motors. Whatizit?



G'day Verner. The Bellanca 28-92 Monoplane.


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 2, 2009)

Good morning gentlemen,

this is my next challenge (easy)
cheers

P.S. I knew both previous challenges (Zubr and Bellanca) but I wasn't in attendance, what a pity. Choppers instead aren't my cup of tea!


----------



## Graeme (Jun 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Good morning gentlemen,
> 
> this is my next challenge (easy)



Hi Carson. The Weserflug We 271 V1.

Weserflug We 271 V1


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 2, 2009)

Hi,
if I can say, I'd submit of hiding codes visible on wings or fuselage if possible, otherwise guessing planes might be too easy, sometimes...

Cheers


----------



## Graeme (Jun 2, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> I see some minor differences from PZL 30 reference photos I've found on web but maybe the plane shown here is the first prototype...



I suspect so Marcogrifo. Possibly the PZL 30 prototype. Note that in Flyboy 2's photo that the main undercarriage retracts into the fuselage side and not the nacelles. The fin and extreme nose also differ to the design when LWS too control.

PZL P-30 (LWS-6) Zubr 



Marcogrifo said:


> Hi,
> if I can say, I'd submit of hiding codes visible on wings or fuselage if possible, otherwise guessing the plane might be too easy, sometimes...
> 
> Cheers



Heavens mate, I wouldn't dream of investigating the registration.  No, I remembered the Weserflug from a small line drawing I have...





(However I'd be interested in a German aircraft registration search engine if you know of one! )

Look familiar?...


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 2, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Hi Carson. The Weserflug We 271 V1.
> 
> Weserflug We 271 V1



Hi Graeme,
it took you only 14 minutes to unveil my challenge, next time I'll make sure to delete both insignia and registration codes to render matters a bit more difficult. I can't help being astounded at your vast aeronautical knowledge.
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 2, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> I see some minor differences from PZL 30 reference photos I've found on web but maybe the plane shown here is the first prototype...
> 
> Anyway, good catch!



Those are very cute remarks Marcogrifo: I'll make sure to save both pics of the "Zubr", i.e. the one submitted by Flyboy and the ones available on "ugolok neba". But it still remains an ugly contraption!
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 2, 2009)

Graeme said:


> I suspect so Marcogrifo. Possibly the PZL 30 prototype. Note that in Flyboy 2's photo that the main undercarriage retracts into the fuselage side and not the nacelles. The fin and extreme nose also differ to the design when LWS too control.
> 
> PZL P-30 (LWS-6) Zubr
> 
> ...


Yes it looks familiar, it must be a french contraption but right now I have no time to investigate it as i have to take care of th emissus......
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Yes it looks familiar, it must be a french contraption but right now I have no time to investigate it as i have to take care of th emissus......
> carson1934



The missus can wait for a while....I'm quoting at heart maybe the Farman NC-223?
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 2, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Heavens mate, I wouldn't dream of investigating the registration.  No, I remembered the Weserflug from a small line drawing I have...


Sorry, believe me, I wasn't blaming anyone for this apart from myself for the first 



> (However I'd be interested in a German aircraft registration search engine if you know of one! )


Sorry again, I don't know any special search engine , but try googling "aircraft YR-AHA" or "aircraft D-ORBE" 



> Look familiar?...



Hmm, an usual "french-multi-engine-high-wing-fixed-gear-ugly-plane" built in the period between WWI and WWII, maybe?


----------



## Graeme (Jun 3, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> The missus can wait for a while....I'm quoting at heart maybe the Farman NC-223?
> carson1934





Marcogrifo said:


> Hmm, an usual "french-multi-engine-high-wing-fixed-gear-ugly-plane" built in the period between WWI and WWII, maybe?



I guess we're a little tired of seeing ugly French planes? So to end this one it's the Societe Aerienne Bordelaise SAB-80. Meant to be a multi-role aircraft it was suppose to undertake communication, long and short range bomber, escort and reconnaissance missions but in the end it could perform none of these roles to a high standard.


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 3, 2009)

Graeme said:


> I guess we're a little tired of seeing ugly French planes? So to end this one it's the Societe Aerienne Bordelaise SAB-80. Meant to be a multi-role aircraft it was suppose to undertake communication, long and short range bomber, escort and reconnaissance missions but in the end it could perform none of these roles to a high standard.



Hi Graeme
thanks for the solution of the riddle, I didn't know that ugly french thing (no offense meant of course). May I suggest something? You are an absolute mine of information and knowledge, why don't you make a challenge over some little known flying wing? Just a suggestion...
carson1934


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 3, 2009)

Graeme said:


> I suspect so Marcogrifo. Possibly the PZL 30 prototype. Note that in Flyboy 2's photo that the main undercarriage retracts into the fuselage side and not the nacelles. The fin and extreme nose also differ to the design when LWS too control.
> 
> GRAEME I guess the PZL 30 as it was an cvil airliner have an fixed Undercarriage - Was designed by a team led by Eng. Zbysław Ciołkosz
> It was refused and LOT buy some american douglass DC2 - Then the aircraft was converted in a (1200kg bombs) bomber - Also the engines was changed from Wasp juniors to Bristol Pegasus VIII so the naceles an the fuselage was changed Pzl30BII
> ...


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 3, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Sorry, believe me, I wasn't blaming anyone for this apart from myself for the first
> 
> 
> Sorry again, I don't know any special search engine , but try googling "aircraft YR-AHA" or "aircraft D-ORBE"
> ...



Hi again Marcogrifo
I don't mean to confuse you but I just started a small thread called "*aircrafts in push/pull configuration"*. This is just a very humble start but I'm sure, with the help of you gentlemen, that it will grow up to a respectable size.
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 3, 2009)

Good evening gentlemen,
if nobody wants to put forth a challenge over a flying wing, well I'll be the one (easy)
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (Jun 3, 2009)

Carson, can you provide a link for your thread aircrafts in push/pull configuration as I cannot find it and I have a picture foryou that you might not have seen before. 

Your flying wing reminds me of an early Lippisch test plane but I'm not finding it so easy as you might think


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 3, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Carson, can you provide a link for your thread aircrafts in push/pull configuration as I cannot find it and I have a picture foryou that you might not have seen before.



Look here: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aircraft-picture-requests/aircrafts-push-pull-configuration-18906.html

Nice idea Carson, I'll try to add something in the next days 

Cheers


----------



## Waynos (Jun 3, 2009)

Thanks.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 4, 2009)

Patoruzu said:


> GRAEME I guess the PZL 30 as it was an cvil airliner have an fixed Undercarriage



G'day Patoruzu! I've read (happy to be corrected) that the PZL.30 airliner never flew as such, because as you said, LOT had no interest in it and therefore it was completed as a "combat proficiency trainer" which flew in March 1936. This formed the basis for the production PZL.30A Zubr. Possibly either one had the fixed undercarriage? However I can find no mention of it in books. Poor drawings but the PZL.30/BI definitely had a side fuselage wheel well as opposed to the LWS nacelle retracting undercarriage...


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks Waynos and thanks Marcogrifo I would really appreciate new denominations for my "push/pull" list which I have recently started.
On the other hand I'm happy to announce that my list of "contrarotating props" is going very well with new additions trickling in.
I'll soon update it
Cheers
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 4, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Carson, can you provide a link for your thread aircrafts in push/pull configuration as I cannot find it and I have a picture foryou that you might not have seen before.
> 
> Your flying wing reminds me of an early Lippisch test plane but I'm not finding it so easy as you might think



I'll give you a clue concerning the flying wing: it isn't german and it was a one-off model of the middle thirties.....
carson1934


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 4, 2009)

Great GRAEME Also happy to be corrected. Thanks a lot -


----------



## AMCKen (Jun 4, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day Patoruzu! I've read (happy to be corrected) that the PZL.30 airliner never flew as such, because as you said, LOT had no interest in it and therefore it was completed as a "combat proficiency trainer" which flew in March 1936. This formed the basis for the production PZL.30A Zubr. Possibly either one had the fixed undercarriage? However I can find no mention of it in books. Poor drawings but the PZL.30/BI definitely had a side fuselage wheel well as opposed to the LWS nacelle retracting undercarriage...



Looks the the upper drawing, 'port side view' shows the inward retracting gear and the lower starboard shows a rearward gear. ?


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 4, 2009)

Hello gentlemen,

Help required: does the attached image represent a Curtiss-Wright BT/32 "condor"?
There are conflicting views over the identification with a friend of mine.
Thanks in advance
carson1934


----------



## Patoruzu (Jun 5, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Looks the the upper drawing, 'port side view' shows the inward retracting gear and the lower starboard shows a rearward gear. ?


Morning ACMKen
There two different airplanes - Upper the PZL 30-BI and below PZL 30-BII- Note that the nacelles are also different.


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 5, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I'll give you a clue concerning the flying wing: it isn't german and it was a one-off model of the middle thirties.....
> carson1934



Since there are no takers yet for this flying wing and valuable space should be made for other , more interesting and enthralling challenges, I'll inform you that it is the Nieuport-Delage NID/941 of 1935 (only one prototype was built).
Cheers
carson1934
Nieuport-Delage NiD-941 - Tourisme - Un siècle d'aviation française


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 5, 2009)

OK, guess this:







P.S.: I decided in this case I do not hide the code on fuselage because it shoudn't help so much in guessing the plane (but someone can always contradict me...  )

Cheers


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 5, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hello gentlemen,
> 
> Help required: does the attached image represent a Curtiss-Wright BT/32 "condor"?
> There are conflicting views over the identification with a friend of mine.
> ...


Dear carson,
this below is an excerpt from Putnam's "Curtiss Aircraft 1907 - 1947", I hope can help you...






And here below is a detail of your photo, where (barely visible on lower surface of low wing) I can see what IMO is the chinese air force insigna, so that should be the only one plane sold to China. Do you agree?






Cheers


----------



## verner (Jun 6, 2009)

Carson, there were other models also:


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jun 6, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> And here below is a detail of your photo, where (barely visible on lower surface of low wing) I can see what IMO is the chinese air force insigna, so that should be the only one plane sold to China. Do you agree?



Nicely done!

I did not even notice it.


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 6, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Dear carson,
> this below is an excerpt from Putnam's "Curtiss Aircraft 1907 - 1947", I hope can help you...
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Marcogrifo,
what a keen eyesight you have...and thanks for pointing it out to me.
I agree with the Chinese insignia
Nicely done
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 6, 2009)

verner said:


> Carson, there were other models also:



Hi Verner,
what a fascinating story about Curtiss Condors'!
In my opinion even if it wasn't a milestone in passenger air travel it was an important step in fostering air transportation for the general public albeit it remained in service for just three years.
The picture you have attached must be CO Condor (Mod.53) of 1929; of course comprehensive information may be obtained through Aerofiles
Cheers and have a very nice week end
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 8, 2009)

Just to keep the ball rolling, what is it?
carson19348)8)


----------



## Waynos (Jun 8, 2009)

Is it the Nord Norvegie ?(sorry about the guessed spelling but if its right you'll understand  )


----------



## Graeme (Jun 9, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> OK, guess this:



What was the final verdict with this one Marcogrifo? The tail looks like a Macchi? 







carson1934 said:


> Just to keep the ball rolling, what is it?



The SFAN 11, Carson.

SFAN 11 -




Waynos said:


> Is it the Nord Norvegie ?(sorry about the guessed spelling but if its right you'll understand  )



The Nord NC.856 Norvigie. The tail is different and the SFAN dates back to 1940 (I think).


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 9, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> OK, guess this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Marcogrifo,
for some strange reasons your post appeared on my PC only this morning and I'm glad you submitted it.
It is the: *LAR GR-2 of 1959*, product of an unknown (at least for me) italian manufacturer.
The only picture about this A/C I found on Aviastar but no other information.
*Any additional information you may have on this aircraft is appreciated*
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 9, 2009)

Graeme said:


> What was the final verdict with this one Marcogrifo? The tail looks like a Macchi?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Concerning my post #3276 it is the SFAN/11, a french liaison and recce prototype of 1940.
concerning Marcogrifo's mystery plane please see my today's post to him.
Cheers
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 9, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi Marcogrifo,
> for some strange reasons your post appeared on my PC only this morning and I'm glad you submitted it.
> It is the: *LAR GR-2 of 1959*, product of an unknown (at least for me) italian manufacturer.
> The only picture about this A/C I found on Aviastar but no other information.
> ...



Sorry, carson, but the first info about the mystery plane I have to give you is that the identification you correctly found on Aviastar site is wrong  

The actual name for that nice little racer is *QR.2 bis* and was a private venture of Queirolo and Recanatini engineers, better known for another project, the twin-engined QR.14.
Here is a page from italian Aerofan magazine ( issue #4, year 1978 ):







For non-italian speakers, the caption at the bottom says:


> The QR.2 bis, powered by a Fiat A.54 - 130 Hp engine, was finished after the end of WWII (the project started before 1938 ) and registered as "I-BICI". The only one model built was still flying during the fifties, here seen at Milano-Linate field.


This little beauty was entirely made of wood, and had following characteristics:

wingspan = 8,90 m
length = 7,60 m
height = 2,53 m
max speed = 270 km/h
ceiling = 5100 m.

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 10, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Sorry, carson, but the first info about the mystery plane I have to give you is that the identification you correctly found on Aviastar site is wrong
> 
> The actual name for that nice little racer is *QR.2 bis* and was a private venture of Queirolo and Recanatini engineers, better known for another project, the twin-engined QR.14.
> Here is a page from italian Aerofan magazine ( issue #4, year 1978 ):
> ...


Hi Marcogrifo,
thanks a million for the information concerning the QR/2/Bis.
As you can see I was completely misled by Aviastar which quotes a completely different denomination for this particular A/C. No wonder I couldn't find any track about it!
Maybe somebody should advise Aviastar accordingly.
Cheers
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 10, 2009)

I would like to inform that the quotation "Bestelli-Colombo C-3" on the corresponding editorial of Aviastar is apparently wrong.
The actual name of the aircraft is: *Bestetti-Colombo C/3* which made her first flight in 1943 and crashed during trial.
Interesting comments are available on the appropriate box at foot of Aviastar editorial written by [email protected].
I am attaching a pic of this aircraft as available from Aviastar
This could be interesting for whoever likes italian less known aircrafts!
Cheers
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 10, 2009)

Now gentlemen, what about the name of this elegant european twin engined executive?
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Jun 10, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Now gentlemen, what about the name of this elegant european twin engined executive?
> carson1934



Austrian with a long name. The Simmering-Graz-Pauker SGP-222 Flamingo. Your photo depicts a late production machine with the square-tip fin...





Drawing of early production Flamingo with the more curvaceous tail...


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 11, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Austrian with a long name. The Simmering-Graz-Pauker SGP-222 Flamingo. Your photo depicts a late production machine with the square-tip fin...


Nice twin-engine indeed 

OK gentlemen, I'd submit to your attention this little bird:






I suspect it's very easy, but it looks so funny that I can't resist...

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 11, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Austrian with a long name. The Simmering-Graz-Pauker SGP-222 Flamingo. Your photo depicts a late production machine with the square-tip fin...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, it is the "Flamingo", Graeme. Just think that the Simmering, etc. is a company better known for building trains and streetcars in Austria.
One surely learns one thing or two from you, Graeme
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 11, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Nice twin-engine indeed
> 
> OK gentlemen, I'd submit to your attention this little bird:
> 
> ...



Hi Marcogrifo,
I dunno what it is but it's very funny indeed.
From the attire of the gentlemen standing on the wing I might infer that it is a U.S.A. venture of the middle thirties
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Jun 11, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Nice twin-engine indeed
> 
> OK gentlemen, I'd submit to your attention this little bird:
> 
> ...



Hi Magnifico. The Dayton Wright RB Racer...

Dayton-Wright RB-1

(Are your photos from AeroFiles?)


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 11, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Hi Magnifico. The Dayton Wright RB Racer...
> 
> Dayton-Wright RB-1
> 
> (Are your photos from AeroFiles?)


You're right 

I knew, it was too easy for you guys 
Yep, Graeme, those are from Aerofiles.

Still another to guess, hope it's harder than previous 






Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 11, 2009)

A new challenge gentlemen,
this looks like a very ordinary biplane but in its own time it was considered one of the world's best acrobatics (observe the bubble cowling)...
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 11, 2009)

Sorry gentlemen to take undue advantage of your time, forum space and patience.
In my search of push/pull aircrafts you were kind enough to inform me about the Colani C-309 a splendid contraption (or maybe an utopia?) of Mr. Luigi Colani from Pontresina (Switzerland).
In googling through the web till my fingertips ached I came across a portuguese forum with an image which should represent a pre Colani C-309, in other words a racer conceived before the actual and known Colani C-309.
I'm enclosing its photo which is not so good but it looks like having push contrarotating props (or am I imaging them?). Also there is a name and a number on the fuselage which I can't read albeit I magnified the image.
Any further information or picture concerning the above is appreciated.
Cheers
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 11, 2009)

Hi carson, might be I'm wrong but I think and thus I read... "Mach 0.9" on the fuselage of the Colani.
And I see contra-props too...

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 11, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Hi carson, might be I'm wrong but I think and thus I read... "Mach 0.9" on the fuselage of the Colani.
> And I see contra-props too...
> 
> Cheers



Hi Marcogrifo,
thanks very much for your prompt reply.
I found on the web lots of information about Luigi Colani who is an utopic genius born and residing in Germany and making a lot of money. The pic I submitted is just a "Standmodell" (static model less than a mock-up) and the article in german states that it is "Flugunfaehig" i.e. unable to fly.
The inscription on the fuselage are: Mach 0,9 and "Pontresina", the name of the model.
Therefore not a real aircraft but just a static model,i.e.an expensive toy
Cheers
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 14, 2009)

Honourable gentlemen,
I'm surprised, no takers yet for Marcogrifo's post #3290 and for my post #3291?
It is understandable that the first heat wave of the year might induce more interesting leisures (at least for us living in southern Europe) but what about our aussie friends who are not confronted with this problem being downunder?
carson1934o


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 15, 2009)

Help required please-
I don't seem to be able to identify the two jets of the pic attached. Obviously it's US Navy business.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 15, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Help required please-
> I don't seem to be able to identify the two jets of the pic attached. Obviously it's US Navy business.
> Thanks in advance for your cooperation
> carson1934







*Lockheed S-3 Viking*

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 16, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> *Lockheed S-3 Viking*
> 
> Cheers



Hi Marcogrifo,
thanks for your help (I've seen it at least ten times and just couldn't make it out...well, one of those things...).
Nobody seems to tackle your post# 3290 and mine 3291 both of 6-11-09.
I'll wait till tomorrow afternoon then I'll unveil the mystery plane (unless someone does it before).
Ciao
carson1934o


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 18, 2009)

since there are no takers for my post #3291 of 6-11-09 and the forum seems to be frozen solid, let me unveil the mistery plane as well as pilot:
pilot is master-pilot Tasnadi "Nadi" Laszlo and plane is *Szegedy MSrE M-21 "Harag"* of 1936 a hungarian aerobatic plane of which I think only one prototype was built
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 18, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> since there are no takers for my post #3291 of 6-11-09 and the forum seems to be frozen solid, let me unveil the mistery plane as well as pilot:
> pilot is master-pilot Tasnadi "Nadi" Laszlo and plane is *Szegedy MSrE M-21 "Harag"* of 1936 a hungarian aerobatic plane of which I think only one prototype was built
> carson1934


I admit I really have no clue about that, carson 

And now, my little mystery plane:





*Bassou FB.31*
Was a light wooden construction pusher two-seater built in Paris by Sociète de Constructions et d'Aviation Légère, 1935 circa, only two built.

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 19, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> I admit I really have no clue about that, carson
> 
> And now, my little mystery plane:
> 
> ...



Hi Marcogrifo,
I didn't know aything about the small french monster either.....
By the way do you know anything about an engine called Denny OQ/2A built in the USA in 1941...I think it was a drone with contrarotating props?
Cheers
carson1934


----------



## AMCKen (Jun 19, 2009)

By the way do you know anything about an engine called Denny OQ/2A built in the USA in 1941...I think it was a drone with contrarotating props?
Cheers
carson1934[/QUOTE]

See:

Radioplane OQ-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OQ-2 is the aircraft. The engine is by 'Righter'.


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 19, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> By the way do you know anything about an engine called Denny OQ/2A built in the USA in 1941...I think it was a drone with contrarotating props?
> Cheers
> carson1934



See:

Radioplane OQ-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OQ-2 is the aircraft. The engine is by 'Righter'.[/QUOTE]

Hi AMCKen,
thanks very very much for your post this is going to be extremely useful for my thread. I'm sorry I used the word "engine" inconsiderately what I meant was a "contraption called Denny etc.."
carson1934


----------



## AMCKen (Jun 19, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> See:
> 
> Radioplane OQ-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> OQ-2 is the aircraft. The engine is by 'Righter'.



Hi AMCKen,
thanks very very much for your post this is going to be extremely useful for my thread. I'm sorry I used the word "engine" inconsiderately what I meant was a "contraption called Denny etc.."
carson1934[/QUOTE]

S'allright. The Righter O-15 is a pretty small engine (15 cuin / 246cc) to have a contra-rotating propellor. One would think a lot of the 7hp would be used up in whatever kind of drive they used for the prop.


----------



## Gibbage (Jun 21, 2009)

OK. This looks like fun. I dont know of many oddball aircraft, but this one. I had a little fun in Photoshop to give you guys a run for your money.


----------



## AMCKen (Jun 21, 2009)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bennett_Airtruck


----------



## Gibbage (Jun 21, 2009)

I had a feeling it would be easy for you guys. I was hoping to throw you off with the early model radial version.


----------



## AMCKen (Jun 22, 2009)

Gibbage said:


> I had a feeling it would be easy for you guys. I was hoping to throw you off with the early model radial version.



Almost did until I looked at the PL11 instead of the PL12. : )


----------



## Grampa (Jun 22, 2009)

Ok try identifie this ancient plane


----------



## Graeme (Jun 22, 2009)

Grampa said:


> Ok try identifie this ancient plane



So stable in flight was the D.8 that one pilot (Commandant Felix) left the cockpit and walked out onto the lower wing during a flying meet at Deauville.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 22, 2009)

Graeme said:


> So stable in flight was the D.8 that one pilot (Commandant Felix) left the cockpit and walked out onto the lower wing during a flying meet at Deauville.



Cool biplane indeed 8) 
Thanks for adding this Grampa.
And thank you Graeme for the funny anecdote 

Here a lot of infos about John William Dunne and his planes:
http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/dunne.html


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 22, 2009)

Gibbage said:


> OK. This looks like fun. I dont know of many oddball aircraft, but this one. I had a little fun in Photoshop to give you guys a run for your money.



Hi Gibbage,
good to make your acquaintance, AMCKen knew what it was but I have seldom seen such an ugly contraption!
carson1934o


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 22, 2009)

Graeme said:


> So stable in flight was the D.8 that one pilot (Commandant Felix) left the cockpit and walked out onto the lower wing during a flying meet at Deauville.



Quite an interesting kyte Graeme and a very nice anecdote.
One always learns one thing or two from you!
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 22, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Hi AMCKen,
> thanks very very much for your post this is going to be extremely useful for my thread. I'm sorry I used the word "engine" inconsiderately what I meant was a "contraption called Denny etc.."
> carson1934



S'allright. The Righter O-15 is a pretty small engine (15 cuin / 246cc) to have a contra-rotating propellor. One would think a lot of the 7hp would be used up in whatever kind of drive they used for the prop.[/QUOTE]

Hi AMCKen
well it looks like the Righter 0-15 actually drove a contrarotating props at least according to Wiki
The OQ-2 was a simple aircraft, powered by a two-cylinder two-cycle piston engine, providing 6 horsepower (4.5 kW) and driving two contra-rotating propellers
Cheers carson1934


----------



## Waynos (Jun 22, 2009)

Would anyone like to have a crack at this one?


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jun 23, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Would anyone like to have a crack at this one?



IAI 201 Arava ??????


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 23, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> IAI 201 Arava ??????



Hi Berserker,
it looks to me like an Israeli aircraft of which I can't find immediately a denomination but given a little time a might be able to find it...or am I totally wrong?
chttp://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8245/orbatarava.jpgarson1934


----------



## Waynos (Jun 23, 2009)

Not Israeli, this aircraft was built in a country that you wouldn't be surprised to see taking part in Eurovision, even though they never do very well


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 23, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi Berserker,
> it looks to me like an Israeli aircraft of which I can't find immediately a denomination but given a little time a might be able to find it...or am I totally wrong?
> chttp://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8245/orbatarava.jpgarson1934



On second thought I don't think it is the Arava which has a more egg-shaped fuselage and the strut structure underneath the wings is different...is it a modification of the original Arava...or?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 23, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Not Israeli, this aircraft was built in a country that you wouldn't be surprised to see taking part in Eurovision, even though they never do very well



You mean UK (no offense meant of course, I'm referring to Eurovision)?
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (Jun 23, 2009)

Ha ha, no offence taken. As I posted I even thought to myself that people would think I mean the UK, but no, not British. First flight was in 2000 if that helps?


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 23, 2009)

Your help is urgently needed
I do not mean to mix up posts or create confusion but I have a bit of a problem: is there anyone amongst you gentlemen who might identify the attached picture? I think it is italian...but that's all I suspect...
Look forward hearing from you
carson1934
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/685/000157q.jpg

After receiving certain clues I'm pretty sure the aircraft in question is the Breda Ba/33/S therefore your help (for which I thank you anyway) is no more required!


----------



## AMCKen (Jun 23, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi Gibbage,
> good to make your acquaintance, AMCKen knew what it was but I have seldom seen such an ugly contraption!
> carson1934o



Built for function, not for looks.


----------



## AMCKen (Jun 23, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> IAI 201 Arava ??????



Arava has PT6 turboprops. This looks like it has opposed piston engines.


----------



## Waynos (Jun 23, 2009)

You're right AMCKen, maybe a photo would help?


----------



## Graeme (Jun 24, 2009)

Waynos said:


> maybe a photo would help?



Sure does Wayne, now I can just make out the OK registration, therefore the...

*Evektor-Aerotechnik Raven 257*


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 24, 2009)

You really got me on this, Waynos  



Graeme said:


> *Evektor-Aerotechnik Raven 257*



Strange and a bit confused story has this plane, on 1000aircraft site it's named: *Wolfsberg-Evektor Raven 257*








And now gents, please guess this:






Easy? Difficult? Who knows...

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 24, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> You really got me on this, Waynos
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Marcogrifo
this is the Fleetwings XBQ/1 of 1943 a guided missile with a pilot cockpit and fixed landing gear made in USA
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 24, 2009)

Hello gentlemen,
today is St.John the patron saint of Florence (my hometown) that's why I celebrated and didn't show up in the forum till this evening...
Now for a change what about the following silhouette?
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (Jun 24, 2009)

I think I recognise that as being Indonesia's first homegrown aircraft Carson. The Nurtanio Nu 200 Sikumbang.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 25, 2009)

Waynos said:


> I think I recognise that as being Indonesia's first homegrown aircraft Carson. The Nurtanio Nu 200 Sikumbang.


A completely unknown type for me, well done Waynos 



carson1934 said:



> Hi Marcogrifo
> this is the Fleetwings XBQ/1 of 1943 a guided missile with a pilot cockpit and fixed landing gear made in USA
> carson1934


Yes


----------



## Graeme (Jun 25, 2009)

Waynos said:


> I think I recognise that as being Indonesia's first homegrown aircraft Carson. The Nurtanio Nu 200 Sikumbang.



Nicely done Wayne. Can't say I've ever heard of that aircraft before.

Carson, a few pages back you mentioned that you were interested in seeing/identifying flying wings. I thought of you when I found this...


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 25, 2009)

Waynos said:


> I think I recognise that as being Indonesia's first homegrown aircraft Carson. The Nurtanio Nu 200 Sikumbang.



Spot-on Waynos, it is the *Nurtanio Nu/200 Sikumbang (bee)*.
Congratulations, not easy at all to guess!
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 25, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Nicely done Wayne. Can't say I've ever heard of that aircraft before.
> 
> Carson, a few pages back you mentioned that you were interested in seeing/identifying flying wings. I thought of you when I found this...



Hi Graeme,
thanks for thinking about me!
It's *a Mitchell product* for sure either a Victory Wing or a U2 but I'll try to be more specific later...
carson1934

In my opinion it's a *Michell U-2*, problem with Mitchell's is that he built many models for the private market and many don't even have an official denomination but fancy names...


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 25, 2009)

What about this early chopper originating from a country famous for its audacious ventures and unorthodox shapes?
carson1934


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jun 25, 2009)

Breguet-Richet No 2 Gyroplane.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 26, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> *Michell U-2*



That's it. Found the image on their home page. It just struck me as an interesting "grainy" shot that made it look kinda pre-war.

: : US Pacific - Home of the Mitchell Wing Ultralights : :



vikingBerserker said:


> Breguet-Richet No 2 Gyroplane.



Nice job with the gyroplane VB and good looking "siggy."


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jun 26, 2009)

Thanks Graeme.

Here's a new one:


----------



## Graeme (Jun 26, 2009)

The G.A.L. 38 Fleet Shadower, VB.

Try this one...


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 26, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Try this one...


Some resemblance with a Tachikawa trainer...
It might be a foreign plane with japanese registration?

Sorry, no clue ATM 

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 26, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Breguet-Richet No 2 Gyroplane.



Yep, that's exactly it, Breguet-Richet Gyroplane No.2 of 1909
carson1934


----------



## imalko (Jun 26, 2009)

I wasn't fallowing this thread closely, so if this had been posted before I do apologize.
Could you guess which plane this is? I will only tell you that this plane was never used operationally and only one prototype was build.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 26, 2009)

imalko said:


> I wasn't fallowing this thread closely, so if this had been posted before I do apologize.
> Could you guess which plane this is? I will only tell you that this plane was never used operationally and only one prototype was build.



Possibly the Ikarus Orkan...


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 26, 2009)

imalko said:


> I wasn't fallowing this thread closely, so if this had been posted before I do apologize.
> Could you guess which plane this is? I will only tell you that this plane was never used operationally and only one prototype was build.



Hi Imalko,
yes, I confirm Graeme's recent post, it is definitely an Ikarus "Orkan" from Yougoslavia
Cheers
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Jun 26, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Some resemblance with a Tachikawa trainer...
> It might be a foreign plane with japanese registration?
> 
> Sorry, no clue ATM
> ...



That'll do me Marcogrifo. The post war Tachikawa or Tachini R-53 two seat trainer of 1952 which was a development of the R-52...

Tachikawa R-52 -


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 26, 2009)

Graeme said:


> The G.A.L. 38 Fleet Shadower, VB.
> 
> Try this one...



Hi Graeme,

well I don't know what it is and have no time to look for it as the missus is calling up for lunch...However I share Marcogrifo's view: it doesn't look jap more british (but I have great difficulties in spotting trainers...)
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 26, 2009)

OK, guess this little bird:






cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 26, 2009)

Graeme said:


> That's it. Found the image on their home page. It just struck me as an interesting "grainy" shot that made it look kinda pre-war.
> 
> : : US Pacific - Home of the Mitchell Wing Ultralights : :
> 
> ...



Hi Graeme,
please explain the meaning of the word *siggy* that I keep on finding in various texts.
No trace of it in my dictionaries and not even in the Merriam-Webster 
Cheers
carson1934


----------



## imalko (Jun 26, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Possibly the Ikarus Orkan...





carson1934 said:


> Hi Imalko,
> yes, I confirm Graeme's recent post, it is definitely an Ikarus "Orkan" from Yougoslavia...



You are both correct.... I guess this was easier question then I thought.


----------



## imalko (Jun 26, 2009)

Hello Carson!
"Siggy" is abbreviation from word "signature" and on this forum its the picture and text which appears underneath you every post...Like Bf 109 in my case.

If you wish to make one for yourself, check out this thread:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/si...official-how-make-signature-thread-10669.html


----------



## Waynos (Jun 26, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> OK, guess this little bird:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whatever it is, its daddy was the Fokker DVII


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 26, 2009)

imalko said:


> Hello Carson!
> "Siggy" is abbreviation from word "signature" and on this forum its the picture and text which appears underneath you every post...Like Bf 109 in my case.
> 
> If you wish to make one for yourself, check out this thread:
> http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/si...official-how-make-signature-thread-10669.html



Thanks very much Imalko, a young word for an old man...
carson1934


----------



## imalko (Jun 27, 2009)

Okay, next question... Can you guess which plane this is?


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 27, 2009)

imalko said:


> Okay, next question... Can you guess which plane this is?



Yes I can Imalko.
This must be a very interesting aircraft *Ikarus 451* of 1952 where the pilot was lying in prone position!
carson1934

(yours is a beautiful picture)


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jun 27, 2009)

Ikarus 232 Pionir (Pioneer). I think 

PS But this is really 451 prototype. Evolution of 232 (on photo from _Aviacija Srbije i Jugoslavije 1901-1994 - Aviation of Serbia and Yugoslavia 1901-1994_).


----------



## imalko (Jun 27, 2009)

Well, I'm impressed. I couldn't guess that experimental aircraft build in Yugoslavia would be so well known. You are right - its Ikarus 451 which was post war development of Ikarus Pionir.
Thanks for you comment about my photo Carson. It was taken at Aeronautical museum at Belgrade airport.


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 27, 2009)

imalko said:


> Well, I'm impressed. I couldn't guess that experimental aircraft build in Yugoslavia would be so well known. You are right - its Ikarus 451 which was post war development of Ikarus Pionir.
> Thanks for you comment about my photo Carson. It was taken at Aeronautical museum at Belgrade airport.



Hi Imalko,
please look in the "*new thread*" section. I have been asking information about *Zmay* aircrafts.
Maybe you might be the first to contribute, if you're willing to...[-o<[-o<
carson1934


----------



## imalko (Jun 27, 2009)

I have already contributed... And not just me... Go on and check it out.  
But I will post as much info about Zmaj aircraft as I could find.


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 27, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Ikarus 232 Pionir (Pioneer). I think
> 
> PS But this is really 451 prototype. Evolution of 232 (on photo from _Aviacija Srbije i Jugoslavije 1901-1994 - Aviation of Serbia and Yugoslavia 1901-1994_).



Good afternoon Tzaw1,
you almost made it, just two minutes after me! But tell me something, the picture you have submitted is it really the Ikarus 232 (predecessor of Ikarus 451)? Would you have more pictures of it?
carson1934


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jun 27, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Good afternoon Tzaw1,
> you almost made it, just two minutes after me! But tell me something, the picture you have submitted is it really the Ikarus 232 (predecessor of Ikarus 451)? Would you have more pictures of it?
> carson1934


So writes the author of this book. And this is the only photo what I know.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jun 27, 2009)

Ok, new one:


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jun 27, 2009)

French Fouga CM88R Gémeaux 1

There are other minijets of Fouga. Very funny 
http://www.minijets.org/typo3/index.php?id=67


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jun 27, 2009)

dammit.......

Nicely done!


----------



## Airframes (Jun 27, 2009)

Heck! My immediate reaction was 'Fouga'! But then I thought it was too obvious, and the building in the background didn't strike me as French. I would never have even guessed the name or type number though. Nice one!


----------



## Marcel (Jun 27, 2009)

Saw this on an airshow:


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jun 27, 2009)

Very nice  At first I think about Büucker Jungmann or Tiger Moth.
But 00-GWC registration is:
Photos: Stampe-Vertongen SV-4C Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net


----------



## Marcel (Jun 27, 2009)

Very good


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jun 27, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Good afternoon Tzaw1,
> But tell me something, the picture you have submitted is it really the Ikarus 232 (predecessor of Ikarus 451)? Would you have more pictures of it?
> carson1934


I found yet another photo 232.


----------



## imalko (Jun 27, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> I found yet another photo 232.



Sorry, but this aircraft on your photo has red star under wing insignia, which means that this is undoubtedly Ikarus 451 and not prewar "232". I have one great picture of "Pionir" (official designation Ikarus B-5), but I can't post it right now because I don't have a scanner. As soon as I scan this picture at my friend I will post it. The picture in question shows that B-5 apparently had unretractable landing gear.

Its a great photo never the less. Thanks for sharing TZ.


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jun 27, 2009)

Photo came from Bojan B. Dmitrijević "Jugoslovensko ratno vazduchoplovstvo 1942-1992", page 45.
Photo description:


> Posleratni nastavak eksperimentalnog projekta aviona sa pilotom u leżećem polożaju konstruktora Beślina bili su avioni 232 i 451. Na slici probni pilot Tugomir Prebeg pored aviona 232. (VOC)


And, maybe this is an error, mayby not  I can't this verify.


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 27, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> I found yet another photo 232.



I don't know if it is 232 or 451 but it is an excellent and rare picture anyway. I shall wait for Imalko to scan his picture and then we shall see...
In the meantime thanks a million to both of you
carson1934


----------



## imalko (Jun 27, 2009)

Well this confused even myself, but I believe I have finally figured it out. Prewar experimental airplane was designated *Ikarus B-5* and it had fixed landing gear. As prevoiusly mentioned, I will post picture of this plane as soon as I can. As long as projects *“232“* and *“451“* are concerned these *were both build after the war*. 

So, there were three types with pilot in prone position build in Yugoslavia and they were all designed by Dragoljub Bešlin. Reasoning behind this concept was that pilot in prone position will be able to better cope with g-forces when pulling out of the dive. First experimental project, Ikarus B-5, was therefore envisioned as a dive-bomber. One prototype was build in 1940 but flight tests were not concluded because of German attack on Yugoslavia in April 1941. Second project was Pionir 232 (one example build in 1947) and the third project, developed from Pionir, was Ikarus 451. There were two examples of Ikarus 451 build. First prototype 451/I made its maiden flight on 22 September 1951 with Lt. Radivoj Glavičić at the controls. Second prototype 451/II (now exibited in the museum) flew for the first time on 26 February 1952 piloted by Captain Tugomir Prebeg. After two years of testing project was eventually abandoned.

Here is the link for few more pictures of Ikarus 451:

IKARUS 451


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 27, 2009)

imalko said:


> Well this confused even myself, but I believe I have finally figured it out. Prewar experimental airplane was designated *Ikarus B-5* and it had fixed landing gear. As prevoiusly mentioned, I will post picture of this plane as soon as I can. As long as projects *“232“* and *“451“* are concerned these *were both build after the war*.
> 
> So, there were three plane types with pilot in prone position build in Yugoslavia and they were all designed by Dragoljub Bešlin. Reasoning behind this concept was that pilot in prone position will be able to better cope with g-forces when pulling out of the dive. First experimental project, Ikarus B-5, was therefore envisioned as a dive-bomber. One prototype was build in 1940 but flight tests were not concluded because of German attack on Yugoslavia in April 1941. Second project was Pionir 232 (one example build in 1947) and the third project, developed from Pionir, was Ikarus 451. There were two examples of Ikarus 451 build. First prototype 451/I made its maiden flight on 22 September 1951 with Lt. Radivoj Glavičić at the controls. Second prototype 451/II (now exibited in the museum) flew for the first time on 26 February 1952 piloted by Captain Tugomir Prebeg. After two years of testing project was eventually abandoned.
> 
> ...



Therefore Tzaw1 was right about his post #3368 the pictured aircraft *is a 232* even if there are red star insignia under the wings as both were built after WWII.
We are now *anxiously waiting* for the picture of your Ikarus B5 as soon as you can find a scanner!
I must say that it is a very nice comment to a rather intricate question...
carson1934


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jun 27, 2009)

It seems, that is a small difference.
The nacelle below the fuselage is smaller and right at "232" (at foto left). 
But at "451" the nacelle has central postion and is a bit greater.
And wingtips are cutted, it seems.


EDIT

From Zlatko Rendulić "Avioni domaće konstrukcije posle drugog svetskog rata" (Home constructed aircrafts after 2 WW")


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jun 28, 2009)

Ok, I'll take another crack at it.


----------



## Graeme (Jun 28, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> OK, guess this little bird:







Hate seeing images getting bypassed/ignored Marcogrifo so maybe mores clues or just reveal the identity? But as Wayne pointed out it certainly seems to be based on the Fokker? 





vikingBerserker said:


> Ok, I'll take another crack at it.



It's the Blackburn A.D. Scout. Nice images. Where do you source them from?


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 28, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Hate seeing images getting bypassed/ignored Marcogrifo so maybe mores clues or just reveal the identity? But as Wayne pointed out it certainly seems to be based on the Fokker?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Graeme,
I agree with you hundred percent concerning bypassed images.
Actually I reckon there were no takers for your post #3339 of 6-26 (only Marcogrifo implied it could be a Tachikawa but no confirmation or clues).
Actually we should not accept further images till all old ones are identificed. That's what other forums do!
BTW would you give us a clue or two about above mentioned post?
carson1934


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jun 28, 2009)

Oops I apoligize, I thought it had already been ID'd.

You are correct Graeme! No particular source, this particular one I got from _The World's Worst Aircraft_ by Jim Winchester.


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 28, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> It seems, that is a small difference.
> The nacelle below the fuselage is smaller and right at "232" (at foto left).
> But at "451" the nacelle has central postion and is a bit greater.
> And wingtips are cutted, it seems.
> ...



Thanks Tzaw1 for the rare and detailed pics of Ikarus 232...also for the pics of the various Ikarus 451 (which I already have since some time in my files)...however I wonder why on earth were different models all designated 451's?
carson1934


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jun 28, 2009)

Ask Darwin 
Theoretically this is the evolution: re-building basically the same construction.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jun 28, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> OK, guess this little bird:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It has to be some type of Fokker, or based on a Fokker.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 28, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> It has to be some type of Fokker, or based on a Fokker.


Sorry, not at all 

*OK, gents, time for some hint:*
The little company that built this little bird was american, precisely it was based in NY state. They built and offered to US Army trainers; they had something to do with Keystone.
Guessed?
Still not?

Cheers


----------



## imalko (Jun 28, 2009)

As promised here is the picture of *Ikarus B-5*, the first Yugoslav experimental airplane with pilot in prone position. This aircraft was designed by Dragoljub Bešlin and build in only one example, as prototype for proposed dive bomber, in 1940. After occupation of Yugoslavia in April 1941 this airplane (apparently damaged) was captured by the Germans and its further fate remains unknown.

Translation of the Cyrillic text on the picture:
"Assembly hangar of "Ikarus" before the out brake of World War Two. Ikarus B-5, prototype of indigenous experimental twin-engined light aircraft with pilot in prone position, accompanied with other planes produced in this Airplane factory, IK-2 and Blenheim."

Source: "Naša krila" issue No 15 from September 1997, Photo © Šime Oštrić Collection


----------



## lingo (Jun 28, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Sorry, not at all
> 
> *OK, gents, time for some hint:*
> The little company that built this little bird was american, precisely it was based in NY state. They built and offered to US Army trainers; they had something to do with Keystone.
> ...



Fleet, later Consolidated?


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 28, 2009)

imalko said:


> As promised here is the picture of *Ikarus B-5*, the first Yugoslav experimental airplane with pilot in prone position. This aircraft was designed by Dragoljub Bešlin and build in only one example, as prototype for proposed dive bomber, in 1940. After occupation of Yugoslavia in April 1941 this airplane (apparently damaged) was captured by the Germans and its further fate remains unknown.
> 
> Translation of the Cyrillic text on the picture:
> "Assembly hangar of "Ikarus" before the out brake of World War Two. Ikarus B-5, prototype of indigenous experimental twin-engined light aircraft with pilot in prone position, accompanied with other planes produced in this Airplane factory, IK-2 and Blenheim."
> ...



Thanks again Imalko for the very interesting and rare picture and above all for taking the time to scan and send this document. I think all concerned have appreciated it
carson1934


----------



## Graeme (Jun 28, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> BTW would you give us a clue or two about above mentioned post?



See post #3345 Carson.



Marcogrifo said:


> The little company that built this little bird was american, precisely it was based in NY state. They built and offered to US Army trainers; they had something to do with Keystone.



The Huff-Daland AT-1.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jun 28, 2009)

That was excellent, and nicely done Graeme!


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 28, 2009)

Graeme said:


> The Huff-Daland AT-1.


Yes!

Here some info: http://aerofiles.com/_huff.html

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 29, 2009)

What about this funny "zinc" (as they say in France)?
carson1934


----------



## lingo (Jun 29, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> What about this funny "zinc" (as they say in France)?
> carson1934



The Airspeed AS4 Ferry.


----------



## Waynos (Jun 29, 2009)

LOVE the ferry! Have you notioced that the passengers heads look as if they are painted on? Maybe nobody would fly in it


----------



## Graeme (Jun 29, 2009)

Here's an easy one...


----------



## Waynos (Jun 29, 2009)

That will be an English Electric Canberra PR mk 9 of the RAF


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 29, 2009)

DOH! Two Minutes to late. Yepp, it's a Canberra.
Krabat

Got an new one, not so easy this time:





Krabat


----------



## Waynos (Jun 29, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> DOH! Two Minutes to late. Yepp, it's a Canberra.
> Krabat
> 
> Got an new one, not so easy this time:
> ...



Being 'just too late' is usually my job. 

Is it German? DFS maybe? I don't know why I just pulled that outt of my arse, it was just my first thought on seeing the picture


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 29, 2009)

German yes, DFS no. When this aircraft was built, the DFS had already closed its doors a long time ago. I'm such a devious mind. 
Krabat


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 29, 2009)

Waynos said:


> LOVE the ferry! Have you notioced that the passengers heads look as if they are painted on? Maybe nobody would fly in it



Yessiree, Airspeed AS4 "Ferry". Next time I must think of something more complicated.
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 29, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> DOH! Two Minutes to late. Yepp, it's a Canberra.
> Krabat
> 
> Got an new one, not so easy this time:
> ...



Hi Krabat, welcome back!
Is this a contraption from "Gruse" or "Pützer"? One can't even tell if this was a glider or a motor driven A/C.
And then the colour, hadn't this people a minimum of good taste?
Anyway that's a hard nut to crack for me...
carson1934


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 29, 2009)

It's a twin engine aircraft which actually never flew. The designer and builder was arrested the day before its planned flight. Engines and wheels are from motorcles (I got a bike of this type years ago, maybe I buy it back and restore it just out of nostalgia). And carson, we had a lot of good taste then, but sometimes there are things that are more important than that. 
Krabat


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 29, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> It's a twin engine aircraft which actually never flew. The designer and builder was arrested the day before its planned flight. Engines and wheels are from motorcles (I got a bike of this type years ago, maybe I buy it back and restore it just out of nostalgia). And carson, we had a lot of good taste then, but sometimes there are things that are more important than that.
> Krabat



Notwithstanding your clues I'm unable to identify your post. But I'm curious to know what motorbike engine or wheels it may have used (you said you got one of that type). When I was a kid around 1948-50 my father used to buy and sell war surplus motorbikes mostly german so I was growing up amidst BMW, DKW, Zundapp and the like..that's why I'd like to know...
carson1934

PS Obviously it's neither a Gruse nor a Pützer


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 30, 2009)

The bike was one of those:

http://www.vennbahn-buecherei.de/mzklassiker/bilder/memz/ts_1.JPG

I would be surprised if you knew it. I had the successor, the ETZ 250:

http://www.christophheise.de/bilder/Motorrad/MZ2.jpg

21 instead of 19hp, 5-speed-gearbox and disc brake. I was sooooo proud then. No comparison to a really modern bike but nevertheless everything a young guy could dream of (apart from the thing with the girls). 

The plane still exists. It's in a museum in the same town I live in, arguably the most famous museum for technics and industry in Germany.

Krabat


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jun 30, 2009)

No, this is NOT Mickey Mouse's plane...
This is 







Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 30, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> The bike was one of those:
> 
> http://www.vennbahn-buecherei.de/mzklassiker/bilder/memz/ts_1.JPG
> 
> ...



Hi Krabat,
excellent pictures of fairly old bikes...I also had many of them and those that remained in my heart are a red Gilera, a Ducati and a silver Mondial...
Going back to aircraft matters, I found your picture which is naturally in the Deutsches Museum in München but unfortunately for me I can't identify it yet as it is simply tagged as "glider".
I'll have a further look but I don't think I can come any closer than that...
carson1934


----------



## AMCKen (Jun 30, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> No, this is NOT Mickey Mouse's plane...
> This is
> 
> 
> ...



Parnall Pixie came to mind but it seems that isn't the answer. Looks like the same Bristol Cherub engine though.


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 30, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> No, this is NOT Mickey Mouse's plane...
> This is
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Marcogrifo,
is this the counterpart to Donald Duck's convertible with licence number 333?
carson1934


----------



## Krabat42 (Jul 1, 2009)

> I found your picture which is naturally in the Deutsches Museum in München but unfortunately for me I can't identify it yet as it is simply tagged as "glider". I'll have a further look but I don't think I can come any closer than that...



No problem, I said it is a tough one. Obviously not even "The Great Graeme" was able to find it. 

The plane is called "DOWA 81". It was built by an engineer for the purpose to flee the German Democratic Republic with his family - in 1981. They all were arrested the day before the planned flight, so the plane never flew. They were condemned, but a year later pushed off to the Federal Republic of Germany.

The bikes were MZ models, where the engines and wheels came from. Single cylinder two-stroke engines with 19hp.

Deutsches Museum: DOWA 81

Of course the plane would never get an approval to fly - and I wouldn't be the one to fly it - but according to some experts, it would fly.

Krabat


----------



## A4K (Jul 1, 2009)

What an amazing aircraft and amazing story... great post Krabat!


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 1, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> No problem, I said it is a tough one. Obviously not even "The Great Graeme" was able to find it.
> 
> The plane is called "DOWA 81". It was built by an engineer for the purpose to flee the German Democratic Republic with his family - in 1981. They all were arrested the day before the planned flight, so the plane never flew. They were condemned, but a year later pushed off to the Federal Republic of Germany.
> 
> ...


Hi Krabat,
what a moving and interesting story!
As I told you yesterday I found on the web your identical picture but it wasn't properly tagged so "futsch".
Anyway thanks for this challenge Krabat I'm glad you're back
carson1934


----------



## Krabat42 (Jul 1, 2009)

Well, I'm back for the next two weeks only, at least if everything goes fine. I'm going to be father in mid July, so I think there will be much time for the forum then. Just doing all the funny things before life gets serious. 
Krabat


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 1, 2009)

I haven't heard anything about Marcogrifo's post #3402 from our three musketeers (Wayno, AMCKen and Graeme) therefore I doubt that an outsider may solve his challenge.
In the interim I take the liberty of submitting a new challenge (a much easier one I reckon)...
Cheers
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 1, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> Well, I'm back for the next two weeks only, at least if everything goes fine. I'm going to be father in mid July, so I think there will be much time for the forum then. Just doing all the funny things before life gets serious.
> Krabat



Congratulations Krabat enjoy life till you can, is he a boy or a girl?
carson1934


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jul 2, 2009)

Nicely done Krabat42, nicely done!

Most importantly CONGRATS on father hood!


----------



## Graeme (Jul 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> In the interim I take the liberty of submitting a new challenge (a much easier one I reckon)...




Carson, it's the Douglas Cloudster.

Nice to have you back Krabat! Can you still e-mail me?


----------



## Krabat42 (Jul 2, 2009)

> Congratulations Krabat enjoy life till you can, is he a boy or a girl?





> Most importantly CONGRATS on father hood!



Thanks to all of you. It will be boy. I thought, I may also do it right the first time.  No, we would have been as happy with a girl too. Maybe the next time.

Graeme, the lost son will send you a PM. 

Krabat


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 2, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> No, this is NOT Mickey Mouse's plane...
> This is
> 
> 
> ...



Well Marcogrifo I want to give it a try too: *Pander D*with a 30HP Anzani 3A...or not?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 2, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Carson, it's the Douglas Cloudster.
> 
> Nice to have you back Krabat! Can you still e-mail me?



Yes I confirm Graeme it is the *Douglas Cloudster*
cheers
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 2, 2009)

This isn't an easy one gentlemen, anybody can identify this sport plane from eastern Europe?
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jul 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Well Marcogrifo I want to give it a try too: *Pander D*with a 30HP Anzani 3A...or not?
> carson1934


Nice try, carson, but not, ain't the Pander 
This little... baby was in fact the *Heath Baby Bullet* 
It was a "homebuilt" plane (maybe the first of this kind?) and reminds me that little Caproni, do you remember?

Here some info about the Baby Bullet: Heath Baby Bullet

Cheers


----------



## AMCKen (Jul 2, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Nice try, carson, but not, ain't the Pander
> This little... baby was in fact the *Heath Baby Bullet*
> It was a "homebuilt" plane (maybe the first of this kind?) and reminds me that little Caproni, do you remember?
> 
> ...



Oh, I was going to say that! Honest I was.


----------



## lingo (Jul 2, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Nice try, carson, but not, ain't the Pander
> This little... baby was in fact the *Heath Baby Bullet*
> It was a "homebuilt" plane (maybe the first of this kind?) and reminds me that little Caproni, do you remember?
> 
> ...




I'm impressed. 150 mph on 32 horsepower is amazing


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jul 3, 2009)

Ok, lets see if this lasts more then 5 minutes:


----------



## A4K (Jul 3, 2009)

Apart from the nose, it looks like the Phoenix Flyer...an earl Avro?


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jul 3, 2009)

Nope.


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 4, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Ok, lets see if this lasts more then 5 minutes:



her general architecture is similar to the Sopwith Special C of 1914 except that she had a pull engine not a push
carson1934


----------



## imalko (Jul 5, 2009)

Name this aircraft...


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 5, 2009)

imalko said:


> Name this aircraft...



Nicolai Zuchenko's VTOL which didn't leave the ground...but a great idea anyway
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 5, 2009)

No takers yet for my post #3417 of 7-2-09?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 5, 2009)

This is danish and is being restored..what is it? (I know there are other challenges to be solved but I couldn't resist the temptation, this pic is soooo nice)
carson1934


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jul 5, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Ok, lets see if this lasts more then 5 minutes:



from Naval Aircraft Factory N-1

*Naval Aircraft Factory N-1 US Navy*

On January 24, 1918, the NAF received specifications and blueprints drawn up by the Bureau of Construction and Repair of the Navy for the Davis Gun Carrier. Initially three aircraft were ordered, BuNo. A-2282 to A-2284, however, the third was cancelled. Later designated N-1, this was the first airplane designed and built by the Navy for the attack role fitted with an 1.46 in (37 mm) Davis cannon in the nose.

The two-seat aircraft was powered by a 330 hp Liberty pusher engine, and the first aircraft was finished on May 22, 1918. Damaged in an accident before taking to the air, it was the second aircraft that was first flown on July 27, 1918. While two more were produced, BuNo. A-4341 and A-4342, another ten, BuNo. A-5030 to A-5039, were cancelled


----------



## tonytwoarrows (Jul 5, 2009)

Hi to anyone !
I'm kind of new to this thing . I'm a licensed pilot (private) with a instrument rating . I have a question , if anyone that saw the National Geographic episode about the Horten 229. Were the engineers of Northrup able to register the model that they built on radar ?


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 5, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> This is danish and is being restored..what is it? (I know there are other challenges to be solved but I couldn't resist the temptation, this pic is soooo nice)
> carson1934


SKANDINAVISK AERO INDUSTRI (KRAMME ZEUTHEN) KZ.IIT
SKANDINAVISK AERO INDUSTRI (KRAMME ZEUTHEN)


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jul 5, 2009)

tonytwoarrows said:


> Hi to anyone !
> I'm kind of new to this thing . I'm a licensed pilot (private) with a instrument rating . I have a question , if anyone that saw the National Geographic episode about the Horten 229. Were the engineers of Northrup able to register the model that they built on radar ?



Here is the thread tony:

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/of...tealth-fighter-national-geographic-17883.html


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 6, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> from Naval Aircraft Factory N-1
> 
> *Naval Aircraft Factory N-1 US Navy*
> 
> ...



This was a tough one vikingBerserker and thanks for the interesting comments. With my previous post I almost guessed the date (1914) but I was completely wrong about the nation.
Later I reckoned by looking at the uniformed chap that it might be north american ...but you can't solve challenges by dint of "if's" and "maybe's".
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 6, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> SKANDINAVISK AERO INDUSTRI (KRAMME ZEUTHEN) KZ.IIT
> SKANDINAVISK AERO INDUSTRI (KRAMME ZEUTHEN)



Well done Tzaw1, perfect pitch!
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jul 6, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> from Naval Aircraft Factory N-1
> 
> *Naval Aircraft Factory N-1 US Navy*



Ah, well done, VB 
I spent hours trying to identifying that old seaplane...
I thought it might have been yankee stuff, but I really missed the type  

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 7, 2009)

What might this be?----
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 7, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> No takers yet for my post #3417 of 7-2-09?
> carson1934



being no takers for this rare bird I'll give you the solution of this riddle:
*Bloudek XV (S/N YU-PAO)* yougoslav made built in 1930 driven by a Cirrus II engine
carson1934


----------



## lingo (Jul 7, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> What might this be?----
> carson1934



The unlovely and unsuccessful Boulton Paul P.92


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 8, 2009)

lingo said:


> The unlovely and unsuccessful Boulton Paul P.92



That's it Lingo, pitch perfect!
carson1934


----------



## verner (Jul 8, 2009)

Unlovely? I think she's purdy. Anyone know what the round hump thingy was on the top?


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 8, 2009)

Low-drag turret.


----------



## Waynos (Jul 8, 2009)

Yes Verner. It was an aerodynamic representation of a gun turret.

The photo actually shows the P.92/2. THis was a small scale flying testbed for the full size P.92, which was to be a Turret fighter, similar to the Defiant,designed to F.11/37 but in an attempt to minimise drag a special turret was designed that was almost flat and this was built to test the theory. The turret was also intended to be used of RAF heavy bombers (a version of the of the Avro Manchester being schemed with one above AND below the centre fuselage) and unlike other turrets, it was to carry 4 20mm cannon.

The P.92/2 demonstrator was actuyally built by another company, Heston, and they called it the JA.8.


----------



## Waynos (Jul 8, 2009)




----------



## Graeme (Jul 9, 2009)

G'day Wayne. It's gotta be the Miles M.68 Boxcar (G-AJJM)...?

Speaking of Miles...


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 9, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day Wayne. It's gotta be the Miles M.68 Boxcar (G-AJJM)...?
> 
> Speaking of Miles...



Hi Graeme,
what's your picture? a navalized version of the Miles M/57 Aerovan or just an artist impression?
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (Jul 9, 2009)

You got it Grame, thats a wierd looking painting of an Aerovan-boat thing


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 9, 2009)

verner said:


> Unlovely? I think she's purdy. Anyone know what the round hump thingy was on the top?



Hi Verner,
"purdy" means "pretty" or what? help a poor follow from the darkest, obscurest, insidest (no, not Oxford English) corner of Italy....
carson1934


----------



## verner (Jul 9, 2009)

Yes, "pretty" in a Southern US slang.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 10, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi Graeme,
> what's your picture? a navalized version of the Miles M/57 Aerovan or just an artist impression?
> carson1934





Waynos said:


> You got it Grame, thats a wierd looking painting of an Aerovan-boat thing



Yep. Just wishful thinking by Miles.


----------



## Waynos (Jul 10, 2009)

I can't see those engines getting it to unstick, but it looks nice. Anyway, another;


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 10, 2009)

verner said:


> Yes, "pretty" in a Southern US slang.



No wonder my friends from New Zealand didn't understand when I said purdy! thanks for the information
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (Jul 10, 2009)

Any ideas for my last pic Carson? Its rare, but shouldn't be too difficult.


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 10, 2009)

Somebody knows who this fellow is?
carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 10, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Any ideas for my last pic Carson? Its rare, but shouldn't be too difficult.



I'm pretty sure I have seen this very picture (from a different angle) on this forum but right now I just can't locate it, sorry Waynos
carson1934

Maybe Vickers Wellington Mk.VII?


----------



## Waynos (Jul 10, 2009)

Ooh, I think you might kick yourself when you find out


----------



## Waynos (Jul 10, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Somebody knows who this fellow is?
> carson1934



I'm sure we've had this one on the forum before. Different picture but same plane, as I remember thinking it looked like the Lancashire Prospector but bigger. With 231 pages though I'm not going looking for it


----------



## lingo (Jul 10, 2009)

I can't leave Carson1934 in suspense any longer. The Gloster F9/37


----------



## Waynos (Jul 10, 2009)

Not that either lingo. But, naughtily, an answer I was hoping to see  Also, it is not a Gloster.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 10, 2009)

Bristol Beaufighter with "H" tail?

Yep. Just found the photo. Beaufighter R2268.


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 10, 2009)

Beaufighter IF R2866 with wide tailplane and twin rudders.
So they write in Putnam's _Bristol Aircraft since 1910_


----------



## Waynos (Jul 10, 2009)

Yes thats the one guys. Unusual isn't it. Its that big book of bristols again


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 11, 2009)

Waynos said:


> I'm sure we've had this one on the forum before. Different picture but same plane, as I remember thinking it looked like the Lancashire Prospector but bigger. With 231 pages though I'm not going looking for it



The "Red Banner" of communist China
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (Jul 11, 2009)

Yes, thats it. I remember now. Thought it was Chinese but couldn't recall the name.


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 11, 2009)

Does anybody know what this is?
carson1934


----------



## Waynos (Jul 11, 2009)

I think its the Newbury Eon


----------



## Waynos (Jul 11, 2009)

Who can identify this?


----------



## Graeme (Jul 11, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Who can identify this?



Me!

Memories. See post #3...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/errors-problems/attached-image-8575.html

The* Thalman Model T-4.*


----------



## Waynos (Jul 12, 2009)

LOL. Is that the only photo ever taken of it, I wonder?


----------



## Waynos (Jul 12, 2009)

Here's another;


----------



## lingo (Jul 12, 2009)

Short Scion.


----------



## Waynos (Jul 12, 2009)

Correctamundo!


----------



## A4K (Jul 13, 2009)

Here's one for you guys...check out the 'Unknown rudder' thread! I'd be interested what yas can come up with...


----------



## Waynos (Jul 13, 2009)

On my way.....but first this -


----------



## AMCKen (Jul 13, 2009)

Waynos said:


> On my way.....but first this -
> 
> It's like an Antonov 148, but isn't.


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 13, 2009)

Japanese C-X
Japan unveils new C-X, P-X planes - Military Photos
post #1

There are more photoes:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3837967&postcount=10


----------



## Waynos (Jul 13, 2009)

Yes thats the one. OK another not oft seen aircraft picture coming up;


----------



## Graeme (Jul 13, 2009)

Looks like the He 116 Wayne.


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 13, 2009)

Heinkel He 116


----------



## Graeme (Jul 13, 2009)

New one...


----------



## Waynos (Jul 13, 2009)

Yes, you were both right. I really like that picture for some reason. Its slightly cartoony but yet stylish and a nice shade of green 

As for the one above. I think its a mock up, and its French. An early version of the Breguet Deux Ponts perhaps?


----------



## A4K (Jul 14, 2009)

Looks like a mock up or prototype for the Nimrod forerunner (forgotten the name..)


----------



## Graeme (Jul 14, 2009)

Waynos said:


> I think its a mock up, and its French. An early version of the Breguet Deux Ponts perhaps?





A4K said:


> Looks like a mock up or prototype for the Nimrod forerunner (forgotten the name..)



Can't relocate the French website where I found that photo but it also came with this line drawing. They called it the Air Wibault 100. I've no idea of its history but obviously they it good enough for a mock-up.


----------



## lingo (Jul 15, 2009)

A double decker. Perhaps the first. What a pity it was never built.


----------



## Waynos (Jul 15, 2009)

It strikes me we are lacking a picture.

Fascinating project Graeme, do you know when its from? I wonder if it was the first attewmpt at a double decker, I've certainly seen a few but they were all post 1945.


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 15, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Can't relocate the French website where I found that photo but it also came with this line drawing. They called it the Air Wibault 100. I've no idea of its history but obviously they it good enough for a mock-up.



I had seen this line drawing before. Some information may be found on following link:
air france | 1938 | 0581 | Flight Archive.
carson


----------



## Graeme (Jul 16, 2009)

Waynos said:


> It strikes me we are lacking a picture.



Looks like a mutant Caudron Goeland to me Wayne..is it French?


----------



## Waynos (Jul 16, 2009)

Yes it is French. And there is a picture of it somewhere on your bookshelf


----------



## Graeme (Jul 16, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Yes it is French. And there is a picture of it somewhere on your bookshelf



Ahh..my mind is no longer sharp. You wouldn't believe how many books I thumbed through looking for that damn thing! I actually thought it may have been some sort of aerodynamic test bed for the Languedoc built from a Goeland. Nice clue, thanks. *The Potez 661*. I'm going to have to start looking again for more photos.


----------



## Waynos (Jul 16, 2009)

Yes, spot on. Good old Janes 1938 again. I've just built up a little stock of pics from somewhere else for future use 

Such as;


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 16, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Yes, spot on. Good old Janes 1938 again. I've just built up a little stock of pics from somewhere else for future use
> 
> Such as;


it looks a bit like the SM79 in civilian clothes but of course it ain't it...
carson


----------



## Waynos (Jul 16, 2009)

I was struck by the similarity to the SM.79, which also began as an airliner. But it is not related to that plane Carson, as you already noted.


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Maybe this is SM.73. But what with undercarriage?


----------



## Waynos (Jul 16, 2009)

Its not italian. If you look its 'an OK kind of plane'


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 16, 2009)

CSA (Cechoslovakian Airlines) had six Savoias OK-BAB to -BAG.


----------



## Waynos (Jul 16, 2009)

I'm sure they did Tzaw1. But this aint one of 'em. I would only point to the reggie as a clue for one reason.


----------



## verner (Jul 16, 2009)

Czech AV-57


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jul 16, 2009)

Nice Verner


----------



## Waynos (Jul 17, 2009)

You got it Verner! The Avia 57 of 1935.


----------



## verner (Jul 17, 2009)

Let's try this one;


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 17, 2009)

With this registration flew Watter MWT-1.


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 17, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> With this registration flew Watter MWT-1.



Very very good Tzaw1 I didn't even know that Mexico ever produced an aircraft!
Here's what flightglobal says:
quote
"The MWT1 long range monoplane designed by Dr. Michael Watter and built in Mexico. It is fitted with a Pratt Whitney "Wasp" engine"
unquote
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 17, 2009)

Waynos said:


> I'm sure they did Tzaw1. But this aint one of 'em. I would only point to the reggie as a clue for one reason.



How stupid of me Waynos, I looked up Letadla because I remembered that OK = Czechoslovakia but I just skipped this very plane! 
By the way what's the meaning of "reggie"?
carson
Maybe it means registration?


----------



## Waynos (Jul 17, 2009)

Yes thats right, its an abbreviation of registration. Good one on the Mexican jobbie Verner, I like that very much.

There is something very attractive about the thirties for me. Preparing for war but still surrounded by the naivety of peace. A bit like today I suppose. What was this little experiment all about?
(RAF registration removed by me to stop people looking it up  )


----------



## AMCKen (Jul 17, 2009)

verner said:


> Let's try this one;



Often wondered just how effective can a propellor be when half its diameter is blanked out by the engine.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 18, 2009)

Waynos said:


> (RAF registration removed by me to stop people looking it up  )



Was it K5053? The Northrop Gamma 2E?



Waynos said:


> What was this little experiment all about?



Absolutely no idea.


----------



## lingo (Jul 18, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Was it K5053? The Northrop Gamma 2E?
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is.


----------



## Waynos (Jul 18, 2009)

Yes thats it, K5053, next on the register was the Spitifre!

The Northrop 2E is correct. Accordimng to the Flight of the time - 'This has been purchased in accordance with Air Ministry policy of buying examples of the latest and best foreign hardware to allow comparison of them with our own aeroplanes'

Funny, I don't recall the Air Ministry buying a Bf 109?


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 18, 2009)

Exactly. This is the Northrop Gamma 2ED-C alias A-17 tested by the A&AEE at Martlesham Heath. Summer 1935.
S/n: 47; US civil registration: X13760; RAF serial: K5053.

BTW I found other, new for me, Gamma's variant: 2G with Curtiss Conqueror SVG-1570F-4, Photo from Putnam's "McDonnell Douglas Aircraft Since 1920".


----------



## Waynos (Jul 18, 2009)

The inline engine certainly makes it look very different. Speaking of different the 2E was the A-13 and the 2F became the A-17. They were similar but different aircraft.

Here's another


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 18, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Exactly. This is the Northrop Gamma 2ED-C alias A-17 tested by the A&AEE at Martlesham Heath. Summer 1935.
> S/n: 47; US civil registration: X13760; RAF serial: K5053.
> 
> BTW I found other, new for me, Gamma's variant: 2G with Curtiss Conqueror SVG-1570F-4, Photo from Putnam's "McDonnell Douglas Aircraft Since 1920".



If I may bring my little contribute the Northrop Gamma's story of 1934 is a most interesting one. The aircraft in question (K5053 pic attached) was exported to RAF as you gentlemen said, Furthermore:
- 1 went to USSR
- 24 (+ 25 in component form) went to China
2EC and 2ED (for the ignoramus like myself) indicated three blade propellers, revised tail and varied seating configuration.
Source of this information is Aerofiles.
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 18, 2009)

Waynos said:


> The inline engine certainly makes it look very different. Speaking of different the 2E was the A-13 and the 2F became the A-17. They were similar but different aircraft.
> 
> Here's another



This looks very british but besides that I wouldn't know.....
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 18, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Exactly. This is the Northrop Gamma 2ED-C alias A-17 tested by the A&AEE at Martlesham Heath. Summer 1935.
> S/n: 47; US civil registration: X13760; RAF serial: K5053.
> 
> BTW I found other, new for me, Gamma's variant: 2G with Curtiss Conqueror SVG-1570F-4, Photo from Putnam's "McDonnell Douglas Aircraft Since 1920".


Hi Tzaw1,
your pictures are always beautiful, rare and instructive!
Let me tell you that on *Aerofiles* you will find one more beautiful picture of the Northrop Gamma 2G (serial number X13761) with in-line engine Curtiss SWG-1570-F4.
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 18, 2009)

Waynos said:


> The inline engine certainly makes it look very different. Speaking of different the 2E was the A-13 and the 2F became the A-17. They were similar but different aircraft.
> 
> Here's another



Hi Waynos
I don't mean to nitpick especially with a competent person of your caliber...However Aerofiles states that:
"Gamma 2C (1933) with Wright R-1820 prototype went to Army as YA-13. It was rebuilt in 1934 and designated 2F with P&W R-1830-7 became Army XA-16"
Cheers
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 18, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Speaking of different the 2E was the A-13 and the 2F became the A-17. They were similar but different aircraft.


Yes. You are right. But by the A&AEE K5053 was probably descripted as A-17. See: Mason's _British Flight Testing_.

That last bird looks very british, but similarly planes were from France, Italy or Japan too. 
No idea


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 18, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Yes. You are right. But by the A&AEE K5053 was probably descripted as A-17. See: Mason's _British Flight Testing_.
> 
> That last bird looks very british, but similarly planes were from France, Italy or Japan too.
> No idea



I also have no idea but not italian for sure
carson


----------



## Waynos (Jul 18, 2009)

There were so many twists and turns and variations in the Northrop Gamma story that there is much contradictory stuff out there, but basically we all know what plane we are referring to eh guys 

You both got the country right for the latest one. It is British and although very a competent design for its day, a rarely seen type from a VERY famous maker.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 18, 2009)

Waynos said:


> You both got the country right for the latest one. It is British and although very a competent design for its day, a rarely seen type from a VERY famous maker.



My source shows it spatless and with a longer nose but I suspect its the Avro 642 (G-ACFV). Googling also shows a 4-engine conversion, which is news to me.


----------



## lingo (Jul 18, 2009)

Graeme said:


> My source shows it spatless and with a longer nose but I suspect its the Avro 642 (G-ACFV). Googling also shows a 4-engine conversion, which is news to me.



I'm sure that you are right Graeme. The prototype originally had a different nose altogether.


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 18, 2009)

But this is not really 642/2m 
Waynos'es photo is from advertising.
They inserted carriage from 642/4m to the original photo.


----------



## Waynos (Jul 19, 2009)

Well done Graeme - and bonus kudos to Tzaw1! The Avro went through various changes in its life but it seems Avro could not persuade anyone to buy it. Which makes me wonder what was wrong with it as, to my modern eyes, it doesn't look like it would be any worse than other contemporary designs. Its a shame you found the 4 motor version as I was going to use that after a few more pics just as a test 

Advertising images are a great source from the 30's and 40's. You get a feel for what they *wanted* the plane to look like, Like the Heyford image below with its very refined fuselage, in comparison with what was built. They are also a good source for the first images of a type. Earlier in the thread I posted an image from Westland for what became the wyvern, taken fromm a wartime advert when its development had only just begun and its existance was top secret. Similarly there is a Blackburn ad that was printed in 1936/37 showing a 'generic' advanced monoplane in a dive that was revealed, several months later, and with a Mercury radial, rather than the 'Kestrel type' of the ad, to the the Skua, also below. 

Finally, at the very bottom, is your next, image


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 19, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Well done Graeme - and bonus kudos to Tzaw1! The Avro went through various changes in its life but it seems Avro could not persuade anyone to buy it. Which makes me wonder what was wrong with it as, to my modern eyes, it doesn't look like it would be any worse than other contemporary designs. Its a shame you found the 4 motor version as I was going to use that after a few more pics just as a test
> 
> Advertising images are a great source from the 30's and 40's. You get a feel for what they *wanted* the plane to look like, Like the Heyford image below with its very refined fuselage, in comparison with what was built. They are also a good source for the first images of a type. Earlier in the thread I posted an image from Westland for what became the wyvern, taken fromm a wartime advert when its development had only just begun and its existance was top secret. Similarly there is a Blackburn ad that was printed in 1936/37 showing a 'generic' advanced monoplane in a dive that was revealed, several months later, and with a Mercury radial, rather than the 'Kestrel type' of the ad, to the the Skua, also below.
> 
> Finally, at the very bottom, is your next, image



Hi Waynos,
the advertising images are very interesting like everything you edit (btw would it be possible to get a few more of such ad images in colour?) however I must confess that last pic you are submitting represents such a
hideous monster that I can't even think of a country where it was manufactured...
carson


----------



## lingo (Jul 19, 2009)

ST-10?


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 19, 2009)

Monospar Croydon alias General Aircraft S.T. 18


----------



## Waynos (Jul 19, 2009)

Close lingo, but Tzaw1 has it! The ST.18 from General Aircraft Ltd. Carson nailed the description though, a hideous monster indeed 

I think I'll sit back and let someone else post for a while or I'll run out of images. Carson, the ads are printed in black and white in the Jane's All The Worlds Aircraft and Flight mags that I have, plus the online Flight archive, which saves scanning old mags, but there was a book published dedicated to Aviation advertising art. I never bought it (though I intend to) and you should be able to find it on ebay.


----------



## lingo (Jul 19, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi Waynos,
> the advertising images are very interesting like everything you edit (btw would it be possible to get a few more of such ad images in colour?) however I must confess that last pic you are submitting represents such a
> hideous monster that I can't even think of a country where it was manufactured...
> carson



ER, in Britain designed by a Swiss!


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 19, 2009)

Let's leave Waynos in peace for a moment.
I'll take the helm for a brief moment and invite all and sundry to identify this much nicer fighter of the thirties (I don't think it's going to last more than ten minutes)
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 19, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Monospar Croydon alias General Aircraft S.T. 18



Congratulations Tzaw1 it wasn't easy...I should have thought of General Aircraft specialized in producing terrible looking aircrafts like the "Fleet Shadower", the "Cagnet", etc. I think the best looking ones were the ST/12 (which operated also during the spanish civil war in 1937) and the ST/25 which were already ugly enough...
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 19, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Close lingo, but Tzaw1 has it! The ST.18 from General Aircraft Ltd. Carson nailed the description though, a hideous monster indeed
> 
> I think I'll sit back and let someone else post for a while or I'll run out of images. Carson, the ads are printed in black and white in the Jane's All The Worlds Aircraft and Flight mags that I have, plus the online Flight archive, which saves scanning old mags, but there was a book published dedicated to Aviation advertising art. I never bought it (though I intend to) and you should be able to find it on ebay.



Monospar Croydon ~ Outside Lomcovak Club.
A while ago I called the ST/18 "a hideous monster" without knowing what exciting story lies behind this one-off aircraft. Did you know that a bunch of brave men attempted a flight UK-Australia and they made it on the outward journey just to be marooned on a coral reef outside Darwin on the homeward journey?
I invite everybody to read the full story by using the above link and I'm sure you'll like it as I did!
carson

PS Thanks for the above information concerning Aviation advertising Art Waynos


----------



## Waynos (Jul 19, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Let's leave Waynos in peace for a moment.
> I'll take the helm for a brief moment and invite all and sundry to identify this much nicer fighter of the thirties (I don't think it's going to last more than ten minutes)
> carson



Its the F4U Corsairs daddy, the Vought V-150, which was the more powerful version of the V-143. You're welcome Carson. I looked up the title for you in case you want to get it, the book is called "100 Years of Advertising in British Aviation " and its by Colin Cruddas, and I just ordered one from ebay, my search revealed several available.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jul 19, 2009)

Nice Waynos!

I have to admit, it's a good looking aircraft!


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 20, 2009)

Sorry, but this was rather V-141 than V-150.
Photo from "Corsair and others. Aeroplanes Vought 1917-1977"
According this book, V-150 "none were ever built".


----------



## Waynos (Jul 20, 2009)

Tzaw1, I have no reason to argue with that. The same photo as Carson posted is in Jane's 1938 where it is noted as the V-150 in the way that I said (except the bit about beingh the Corsairs dad) . As Janes has always covered upcoming aircraft they may well have used a stock photo to illustrate the entry.


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 20, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Tzaw1, I have no reason to argue with that. The same photo as Carson posted is in Jane's 1938 where it is noted as the V-150 in the way that I said (except the bit about beingh the Corsairs dad) . As Janes has always covered upcoming aircraft they may well have used a stock photo to illustrate the entry.



This is a very interesting debate gentlemen but Aerofiles says it is a *Northrop 3A* of 1935, whether Aerofiles is right or wrong I really don't know
carson

PS I'll order also one copy of the book about aircraft advertising!

However Aerofiles also state:
quote
"Design rights sold in 1936 to Vought and became *Vought V/141*"
unquote
Therefore Northrop 3A and Vought V/141 seem to amount to be the same plane


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 20, 2009)

Now that the subject Northrop/Vought seems to be settled I'd like to submit a new challenge, this being the first all metal plane of USN in the twenties:




carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 20, 2009)

Waynos said:


> I have no reason to argue with that.


Jane's often stumbles. Example? E.g. in this same Jane's 1938 photo of Polish PZL P.24F. In fact this is PZL P.24H. P.24F had 2 Oerlikon cannons. Plane at photo has 4 machine guns (Brownings 303) 
When V-150 never was produced these are two possibilities: 
1. this is V-141 
2. V-143 before the reconstruction. 
Yet more one photo V-141 from _America's Hundred-Thosand. US Production Fighters of World War Two_.
And the fragment of the text from _Corsair and others-Aeroplanes Vought 1917-1977_ explained my suppositions.


> Aerofiles says it is a Northrop 3A of 1935, whether Aerofiles is right or wrong I really don't know


Aerofiles are right 
There were some modifications by Vought. They drawings and fabricated new landing gear and made changes in the vertical tail surfaces.


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 20, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Now that the subject Northrop/Vought seems to be settled I'd like to submit a new challenge, this being the first all metal plane of USN in the twenties:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Naval Aircraft Factory NM-1


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 20, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Naval Aircraft Factory NM-1



In order to let everybody sleep in peace let me tell you that this is a *Stout ST/1* a US product of 1922 and that this Company faced bankruptcy after this very prototype crashed following several flights
carson


----------



## Waynos (Jul 20, 2009)

That will be because they made it look too French 

Great pic Carson, only wish I'd seen it sooner, now I'm over my pig flu I'm back at work, hence the no posts today, boo.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jul 20, 2009)

Waynos said:


> That will be because they made it look too French .





 Nice!


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 22, 2009)

Waynos said:


> That will be because they made it look too French
> 
> Great pic Carson, only wish I'd seen it sooner, now I'm over my pig flu I'm back at work, hence the no posts today, boo.



Thanks Waynos!
btw there is an important PM for you please check it
carson

I sent you a new PM on same subject a few minutes ago


----------



## Waynos (Jul 22, 2009)

As you might see from my sig Carson, I have it, thank you.


----------



## Waynos (Jul 22, 2009)

And here's a new one for THIS forum to have a go at


----------



## Graeme (Jul 22, 2009)

Hi Wayne. There were a lot of Vultees built but I'm going with the top one. The "original" V-11 prototype.


----------



## Waynos (Jul 22, 2009)

Yes You got it Graeme. Bloody hell that was fast 

Here's the original article, where even Flight don't seem to know what its called, which is interesting.






Any ideas on this transport?


----------



## Junkers88A1 (Jul 22, 2009)

here is one happy chap.. any ideas ?


----------



## Waynos (Jul 22, 2009)

Is it a MiG 27?


----------



## Junkers88A1 (Jul 22, 2009)

nope..


----------



## Graeme (Jul 22, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Any ideas on this transport?



Not so fast with this one Wayne, but it's probably the Fairey F.C.1 project...?


----------



## Waynos (Jul 22, 2009)

Yes thats the one. An attractive project I think, it was abandoned at the outbreak of war. Things might have been quite different for Fairey had they flown this first as it would have almost certainly been resurrected by the Brabazon comittee for 1945. 



Junkers88A1 said:


> nope..



Bugger


----------



## Junkers88A1 (Jul 22, 2009)

here is one just a little further away.. i really liked this little smilig guy when i saw him the first time, never noticed it before  and its on the tail if that is any help.. hehe


----------



## verner (Jul 22, 2009)

Pretty sure your little happy guy is the ass end of an F-4 Phantom. cheers


----------



## verner (Jul 22, 2009)

Here he is in make-up.


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 23, 2009)

Waynos said:


> As you might see from my sig Carson, I have it, thank you.



Very well done Waynos, in the meantime I found other pics some of them edited by Marcogrifo whom I will inform separately in italian by PM
carson


----------



## Junkers88A1 (Jul 23, 2009)

you got it


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 23, 2009)

Marcogrifo
Please check your PM
carson


----------



## Waynos (Jul 24, 2009)

Ha, I was looking at the wrong end! Not for the first time in my life, but we'll gloss over that 

Does nobody have any bloody pictures? I like to play too.


Here's something a bit different, its a home made silhouette, but of what?


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 25, 2009)

GAL?


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 25, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Ha, I was looking at the wrong end! Not for the first time in my life, but we'll gloss over that
> 
> Does nobody have any bloody pictures? I like to play too.
> 
> ...



Hi Waynos,
I know it's a french A/C but right now I can't find her pic and therefore can't give you a full name. I'll try later if somebody else doesn't jump to it first
carson

I think I have it: *SNCAN Nord 2100 Norazur* , 1947, one-off plane


----------



## Waynos (Jul 25, 2009)

You have it Carson, yes its the Norazur


----------



## v2 (Jul 25, 2009)

a new one for you guys....


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 25, 2009)

v2 said:


> a new one for you guys....



Hi V2
If I'm not grossly mistaken this pic was submitted already by Waynos on 7-12-09 per his post #3469 and it is the *Short Scion*.
If it isn't they look terribly alike. Cheers
carson


----------



## v2 (Jul 25, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi V2
> If I'm not grossly mistaken this pic was submitted already by Waynos on 7-12-09 per his post #3469 and it is the *Short Scion*.
> If it isn't they look terribly alike. Cheers
> carson



Hi Carson,

it isn't S. Scion...my friend 

v2


----------



## Graeme (Jul 25, 2009)

v2 said:


> a new one for you guys....



Hi v2.
The Polish LWD MIS...

*LWD Mis*


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 26, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Hi v2.
> The Polish LWD MIS...
> 
> *LWD Mis*



Very good answer


----------



## v2 (Jul 26, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Hi v2.
> The Polish LWD MIS...
> 
> *LWD Mis*


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 26, 2009)

Before leaving for holidays (August 1st) I'd like to submit for ID following beautiful seaplane (easy).....
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 26, 2009)

Do 22Kj


----------



## Graeme (Jul 27, 2009)

Not difficult, but it just struck me as an unusual shot...


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 27, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Do 22Kj



Yes Tzaw1 you are right as usual it is the Dornier Do/22 (of 1935). The A/C of my particular picture operated with the yougoslavian air force hence as you rightly said the denomination kj
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 27, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Not difficult, but it just struck me as an unusual shot...



All I can say is that it is a hunchback...but I agree unsual shot
carson


----------



## Waynos (Jul 27, 2009)

Is it a model of Lockheed Constellation?


----------



## Graeme (Jul 27, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Is it a model of Lockheed Constellation?



Yep! The JC-121K...


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 27, 2009)

with a view to further the sequel of old trimotors this is my today's challenge
carson


----------



## Waynos (Jul 27, 2009)

Fokker F.VII/3m?


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 27, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Fokker F.VII/3m?



It's good enough for me Waynos, it is the Fokker F-VII produced under license in Czechoslovakia and called Avia F-VII (a 1929 aircraft)
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jul 27, 2009)

I'll throw in a new one:


----------



## Graeme (Jul 27, 2009)

Hmmm...from "The World's Worst Aircraft" again VB? Pages 154-155 in my copy, the PZL-Mielec M-15 Belphegor. A rare beasty indeed.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jul 27, 2009)

Nice!

I actually got it from here:

Photos: PZL-Mielec M-15 Belphegor Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

I had forgotten the darn thing was in there.....dammit!


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jul 28, 2009)

Mother of M-15 - An-2 Lala (Doll). De facto "Lala" is abbreviation from "Latające Laboratorium" = "Flying Laboratory".


----------



## Waynos (Jul 28, 2009)

You've got to love the genius that thought "why has there never been a jet powered biplane? I kn ow, I'll make one!" 

I remember this coming out in the late 70's and REALLY hoping it would be a success. The first non military type I ever rooted for


----------



## Graeme (Jul 28, 2009)

New one...


----------



## Waynos (Jul 28, 2009)

That looks like a bit of a Fokker, pardon the pun. It puts me in mind of a swept wing S.13


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 28, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Nice!
> 
> I actually got it from here:
> 
> ...



Another front view of the Belphegor
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 28, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Mother of M-15 - An-2 Lala (Doll). De facto "Lala" is abbreviation from "Latające Laboratorium" = "Flying Laboratory".



Very interesting Tzaw1 I've never seen it till now!
carson
I have made some research and for the ignoramus like myself Tzaw1's diagram is a "Lala 1" (Latajace Laboratorium) an experimental contraption made in Poland and flown in February 1972 put together by using the front part of an Antonov AN-2 whilst the rear part was a framework housing a jet engine (dunno which one)
This is the only pic I could find on the net of the real aircraft (not a model):


----------



## Graeme (Jul 28, 2009)

Waynos said:


> That looks like a bit of a Fokker, pardon the pun. It puts me in mind of a swept wing S.13



Clue?
Kurt Tank would have had a look in at this project/mockup from time to time but he was concentrating on a large jet fighter.


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 28, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Clue?
> Kurt Tank would have had a look in at this project/mockup from time to time but he was concentrating on a large jet fighter.



Maybe an argentinian venture (K.T. was there for a fairly long time before going to India)?
carson


----------



## Waynos (Jul 28, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Clue?
> Kurt Tank would have had a look in at this project/mockup from time to time but he was concentrating on a large jet fighter.



Early design for a swept HAL Kiran? He designed the Marut for Argentina but took it with him.


----------



## Graeme (Jul 29, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Early design for a swept HAL Kiran? He designed the Marut for Argentina but took it with him.



Yep! It was a parallel development with the Kiran, the* HJT-17*. HAL were flat strapped with the Mach 2 multi-role requirement and the basic jet trainer so they called in Tank and Mittlehuber to take control of the former which eventually became the HF-24. the Indian team of Ghatage and Mahindra continued with the basic jet trainer design with the HJT-17 eventually losing out to the HJT-16 Kiran.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jul 29, 2009)

Hi, back in business 
This might be too easy for you guys but it's an interesting unique plane...






Sorry for bad quality image.

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 29, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Hi, back in business
> This might be too easy for you guys but it's an interesting unique plane...
> 
> 
> ...



Not easy for me Marcogrifo. Check your PM
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Jul 29, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Yep! It was a parallel development with the Kiran, the* HJT-17*. HAL were flat strapped with the Mach 2 multi-role requirement and the basic jet trainer so they called in Tank and Mittlehuber to take control of the former which eventually became the HF-24. the Indian team of Ghatage and Mahindra continued with the basic jet trainer design with the HJT-17 eventually losing out to the HJT-16 Kiran.



Hi Graeme,
your picture of the HJT17 has sparked interest for indian aeronautics therefore I did some googling.
First of all: am I right in assuming that the HJT17 was a parallel development with Kiran and the image you have shown is just a mock-up?
Second question if you don't mind.
in surfing the net I found the attached pic which is supposed to be the *HT/10* an advanced prop trainer.
Do you have any further info on this A/C?
Sorry to bother you but your immense knowledge and torrential source of info is instrumental in ID ventures...
carson


----------



## verner (Aug 7, 2009)

Did everyone go on vacation? Here's one:


----------



## Waynos (Aug 10, 2009)

Sorry Verner, we're not ignoring you. We haven't got a ferkin clue!

Here's another one, not too hard but a rare colour shot. but please do Verners first if you can.


----------



## Tzaw1 (Aug 11, 2009)

Hawker P.1052


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 11, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Hi, back in business
> This might be too easy for you guys but it's an interesting unique plane...
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Marcogrifo,
unless you provide some clues I'm afraid this is going to remain unknown for some time
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 11, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi Marcogrifo,
> unless you provide some clues I'm afraid this is going to remain unknown for some time
> carson



Need a clue?
Do you think this can help?






Remember, it's a unique plane 

Cheers


----------



## Graeme (Aug 11, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Need a clue?
> Do you think this can help?



Steam! Nice find Marcogrifo! 

The Besler engined Travel Air 2000.

*The Besler Steam Plane 1933 - the first (and probably only) plane which successfully went into the air under steam power!*


----------



## Graeme (Aug 11, 2009)

verner said:


> Did everyone go on vacation? Here's one:



Sort of. Using the "N" method I get the *KOZLOWSKI Short T*? According to the site if first flew in 1956? Now that just doesn't seem right.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 11, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Do you have any further info on this A/C?]



Nope, other than a 50's Jane's entry that describes the project as "progressing" and provided optimistic detailed data...


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 11, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Steam! Nice find Marcogrifo!
> 
> The Besler engined Travel Air 2000.
> 
> *The Besler Steam Plane 1933 - the first (and probably only) plane which successfully went into the air under steam power!*


Yes, amazing bird, isn't it? 

Cheers


----------



## Tzaw1 (Aug 11, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Sort of. Using the "N" method I get the *KOZLOWSKI Short T*? According to the site if first flew in 1956? Now that just doesn't seem right.


But KOZLOWSKi had the Continental boxer engine. This plane has radial.
Perhaps he was rebuilt


----------



## verner (Aug 11, 2009)

It's been a few days so: It' a Mohawk Pinto.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Aug 11, 2009)

Nice verner, never even heard of it.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 12, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Nice verner, never even heard of it.



Ditto.

New one. A long-range bomber prototype that flew in 1945...


----------



## Waynos (Aug 12, 2009)

It flew? Damn, I thought I knew all the big 'uns 

Can you move that white square out of the way, its spoiling the picture


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 12, 2009)

Graeme said:


> New one. A long-range bomber prototype that flew in 1945...


Hmm, that get a familiar look in some way...but I can't recognize it at the moment


----------



## Waynos (Aug 12, 2009)

Is it Italian??? Piaggio maybe??


----------



## Graeme (Aug 12, 2009)

G'day mate!



Waynos said:


> Is it Italian??? Piaggio maybe??



Italian, yes. Piaggio, no. Gotta be honest, until today I never knew this plane existed and having prided myself on knowing just about every aircraft that served during WW2 I was very much surprised. You being an airliner buff I'll tell you that's how this bomber started off. According to the article I got this from NO photos exist but that was written 33 years ago, so who knows? Happy googling, I'm off to bed!


----------



## Waynos (Aug 12, 2009)

In that case I am certain it is a Savoia Marchetti, development of the SM.95?


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 12, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Gotta be honest, until today I never knew this plane existed and having prided myself on knowing just about every aircraft that served during WW2 I was very much surprised.


Aha, no reason to be surprised, my friend, because I'm utterly sure that was a bare "paper plane" 
I don't think Italy was allowed to built bombers after WWII (we lost the war, after all), even if at a prototype stage.
So that might be some late war project that never went beyond the paper stage...

Anyway I agree with Waynos, that looks coming from Savoia-Marchetti's, or Caproni's ateliers 

I'll dig into my books for further info and if I find something I'll post here.

Cheers


----------



## Graeme (Aug 12, 2009)

Waynos said:


> In that case I am certain it is a Savoia Marchetti, development of the SM.95?



Spot on Wayne. The SIAI- Marchetti SM 95B.



Marcogrifo said:


> I'll dig into my books for further info and if I find something I'll post here.



Looking forward to what you find Marcogrifo, appreciate any effort! As I stated above, the article mentions that it was built and flown in 1945. It retained the wings, engines and tail assembly of the SM 95 transport version but married to a new, deeper fuselage. Armament was four 12.7-mm Breda SAFAT machine guns. 

"Unfortunately, no photographs of this prototype are available."


----------



## vikingBerserker (Aug 12, 2009)

It almost looks more like a 4 engined SM.82 then the SM.95

That's a great find, the Piaggio P.108 was the only 4 engined Italian bomber I was aware of.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 13, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Looking forward to what you find Marcogrifo, appreciate any effort! As I stated above, the article mentions that it was built and flown in 1945.


And I must apologize, it seems like sometimes fingers are faster than brain! 
Yes a SM.95B prototype did his mayden flight in 1945 
Anyway, I'm not completely wrong, because the develop (or better, the completion) of that "bomber" was a dispensation from peace treaty agreements 
An excerpt from an article about SM.95 I've found on an issue of "Aerofan" magazine:









vikingBerserker said:


> It almost looks more like a 4 engined SM.82 then the SM.95


Yes, you're right, that is precisely the look (and the essence) of that project 
The profile shown in Graeme's post seems, I think, a speculation about the look the SM.95B should have had.
But these below are "the original drawings" found by the Aerofan's staff 






Quite a merge between SM.82 fuselage and SM.95 wings, isn't it?



vikingBerserker said:


> That's a great find, the Piaggio P.108 was the only 4 engined Italian bomber I was aware of.


And me too 
Finally, the only two known photos of SM.95B 










Cheers


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Aug 13, 2009)

Really brilliant research work!!!
Thank you to all of you involved!!


----------



## Graeme (Aug 13, 2009)

Good post Marcigrifo! Many thanks for that. Love the low flypast photo. So they do exist! lol. How about starting a thread devoted to rare and exotic Italian warbirds?!


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 13, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Really brilliant research work!!!
> Thank you to all of you involved!!


Thanks for your kind words but I did nothing more than spending some time looking through magazines...



Graeme said:


> Good post Marcigrifo! Many thanks for that. Love the low flypast photo. So they do exist! lol. How about starting a thread devoted to rare and exotic Italian warbirds?!


Your welcome 
Unfortunately those images are of a very poor quality 
The idea of a thread about rare italian warbirds sounds interesting...

Cheers


----------



## AMCKen (Aug 13, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Finally, the only two known photos of SM.95B
> 
> 
> 
> ...



P-39 and Spitfire also in the bottom photo?


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 13, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> P-39 and Spitfire also in the bottom photo?


Yes, italian airforce got a lot of second or third hand allied aircrafts (P-39s, P-47s, Spits, P-51s, P-38s and other twin-engined) at the end of the war.

Cheers


----------



## Waynos (Aug 13, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Yes, italian airforce got a lot of second or third hand allied aircrafts (P-39s, P-47s, Spits, P-51s, P-38s and other twin-engined) at the end of the war.
> 
> Cheers



Ah right, I thought they were just there to make sure the Italians behaved


----------



## Waynos (Aug 13, 2009)

Above is the real one. Below is a bonus for 10 million points


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 13, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Above is the real one. Below is a bonus for 10 million points


Above: is it a Curtiss?
Below: no comment 

Cheers


----------



## Graeme (Aug 13, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Below is a bonus for 10 million points



Ten million?! I could retire! I suspect it's a British dream but then again the French were also dreamers?...







Marcogrifo said:


> Above: is it a Curtiss?



The sneaky bugger "shopped" it Marco. here it is fully clothed...


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 14, 2009)

Graeme said:


> The sneaky bugger "shopped" it Marco. here it is fully clothed...


Ah, I see, thank you 
Honestly, I guessed Curtiss but I knew I was wrong 

Anyway, it's a nice little twin-engined, well done Waynos 







Cheers


----------



## Graeme (Aug 14, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Anyway, it's a nice little twin-engined, well done Waynos



Yes, very nice colour photo Wayne, thanks. In some ways the Concordia reminds me of this machine...


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 14, 2009)

*Yakovlev Yak-16 *


----------



## Waynos (Aug 14, 2009)

You got it. Here's the pic with all markings untouched. Shall I do the reveal for the bonus item or shall I leave it a bit longer?






Meanwhile here's another with ID's painted off.


----------



## Graeme (Aug 14, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> *Yakovlev Yak-16 *



Spot on Marco!



Waynos said:


> Shall I do the reveal for the bonus item?



Yes please! 



Waynos said:


> Meanwhile here's another with ID's painted off.



The Koolhoven F.K. 55. Do you know what the twin pusher in the background is? (I don't).


----------



## Waynos (Aug 14, 2009)

No I don't know what it is either, but the FK.55 is spot on. Here's the original article for the 'bonus'. Its from 1935 so, despite the cartoonish shape, it was actually a quite well thought out idea.






And from much later here is another.


----------



## GaryMcL (Aug 15, 2009)

Looks a lot like the Bede BD-10, Jim Bede's aborted attempt at a homebuilt jet back in the mid-90's. In Bede's usual fashion, the design changed hands several times and had multiple designations. I don't think there are any flying now, unless it's been resurrected again.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Aug 15, 2009)

The Bizjet with a fighter look is the ATG Javelin.


----------



## Waynos (Aug 15, 2009)

Yes, thats the one Emilio. I did wonder if this had sneaked past unnoticed, sadly it is no more.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 16, 2009)

Can you identify this?






Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 16, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Nope, other than a 50's Jane's entry that describes the project as "progressing" and provided optimistic detailed data...



Thanks very much Graeme
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 16, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> And I must apologize, it seems like sometimes fingers are faster than brain!
> Yes a SM.95B prototype did his mayden flight in 1945
> Anyway, I'm not completely wrong, because the develop (or better, the completion) of that "bomber" was a dispensation from peace treaty agreements
> An excerpt from an article about SM.95 I've found on an issue of "Aerofan" magazine:
> ...



Hi Marcogrifo
excellent job Marcogrifo I regret I couldn't participate being off my PC for several days.
carson
Now I'm running to watch "Palio" on TV


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 16, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Can you identify this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Marcogrifo,
I've never seen it but somehow it reminds me of a russian plane...maybe an early Ilyushin?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 16, 2009)

After the victoria of the "Civetta "(owl) at the Palio I'm submitting this modest A/C for identification which probably won't last more than ten minutes....
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 18, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Can you identify this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I finally found it by sheer luck! It is a roumanian passenger aircraft of 1932 *Bratu 220*, I think it was manufactured in France and it is a one-off aircraft.
Cheers
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 18, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I finally found it by sheer luck! It is a roumanian passenger aircraft of 1932 *Bratu 220*, I think it was manufactured in France and it is a one-off aircraft.
> Cheers
> carson



Still no guess for your instead 

Ciao


----------



## Tzaw1 (Aug 18, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I finally found it by sheer luck! It is a roumanian passenger aircraft of 1932 *Bratu 220*, I think it was manufactured in France and it is a one-off aircraft.
> Cheers
> carson


Interesting plane. Description from: _Romanian Aeronautical Constructions 1905-1974_.


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 18, 2009)

This might be difficult to identify *except* for our australian friends.....
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 18, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Interesting plane. Description from: _Romanian Aeronautical Constructions 1905-1974_.



Thanks very much Tzaw1 for supplying two more pictures of the Bratu: I only knew the one supplied by Marcogrifo which I found by sheer chance on the russian site!
carson


----------



## Waynos (Aug 18, 2009)

Carson, its a Grumman F9F isn't it? Looks odd out of its USN scheme though, and is that canopy a conversion?


----------



## verner (Aug 18, 2009)

Looks too small to be a Panther.


----------



## Tzaw1 (Aug 19, 2009)

VH-JLG 
VH-JLG - Private Homebuilt JG-2 Grumman Panther - replica Aircraft - Toowoomba @ Airplane-Pictures.net


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 19, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> VH-JLG
> VH-JLG - Private Homebuilt JG-2 Grumman Panther - replica Aircraft - Toowoomba @ Airplane-Pictures.net



Yes Tzaw! you're as usual correct it is an australian home-built jet also called *Gross JG-2* completed in 2005. A beautiful toy isnt'it?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 19, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> After the victoria of the "Civetta "(owl) at the Palio I'm submitting this modest A/C for identification which probably won't last more than ten minutes....
> carson



Strange that Waynos or Tzaw didn't jump to it yet...matbe it went unnoticed....anyway it is one of the very few sport planes built in the USSR in the thirties: it is the *Nikitin NV-1* which flew so well (in 1933) that after 9 flights it was abandoned!
It is rather similar in outlook to an italian aircraft of the same period a pic of which I'll send thru as soon as i can find it.
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm sure Tzaw will identify in a jiffy the enclosed aircraft which was built in a country neighbouring his!
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Aug 20, 2009)

Estonian PTO-4. 
BTW: Estonia never was a neighbour of Poland 
Latvia - yes, Lithuania - yes, Estonia - no.


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 20, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Estonian PTO-4.
> BTW: Estonia never was a neighbour of Poland
> Latvia - yes, Lithuania - yes, Estonia - no.



Very good Tzaw that's what it is and apologies for my poor geography I always got mixed up with the three baltic states but of course Estonia is hte northernmost one!
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Aug 20, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> my poor geography I always got mixed up with the three baltic states but of course Estonia is hte northernmost one!


Take it easy... Historical geography of central and east Europe is very knotted


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 20, 2009)

www.asso4stormo.it/arc2/fog/fog.htm
On above site I found the pic of a mysterious plane (for me) called:
SiAI Ambrosini S-3 (not to be confused with the Ambrosini SS3). I found no information on the net. Maybe somebody can help me out? Thanks in advance
carson

I enclose a pic for ready reference (registration I-LOGO)


----------



## Tzaw1 (Aug 20, 2009)

From Jane's 1938


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 21, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> From Jane's 1938



Thanks very much Tzaw you are an invaluable source of information. I'm glad I supplied with this thread one more pic of the SAI (Ambrosini) S3.
Cheers
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Aug 22, 2009)

I'll try again:


----------



## Graeme (Aug 22, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> I'll try again:



Afternoon VB! With a name like that it should've been Australian!


----------



## vikingBerserker (Aug 22, 2009)




----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 30, 2009)

Just to revive the thread, please look here:






Can you tell what is (the plane not the building...)

Cheers


----------



## Waynos (Aug 30, 2009)

Ouch! Clumsy bugger.

Despite the star on the wing, it has the look of a Nieuport. Is it a Nieuport 17?


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 31, 2009)

Hey gentlemen
it has been too quiet as of late. What about identifying this bird:




carson (just back from holidays)


----------



## Tzaw1 (Aug 31, 2009)

Vought VS-326A 
Attached page from "The CORSAIR and other - AEROPLANES VOUGHT" by Gerard P. Morgan


----------



## Marcogrifo (Aug 31, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Ouch! Clumsy bugger.
> 
> Despite the star on the wing, it has the look of a Nieuport. Is it a Nieuport 17?


Almost got it 
It was a russian Nieuport 24bis.

Cheers


----------



## Tzaw1 (Aug 31, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> It was a russian Nieuport 24bis.


When and where? Because the situation is a little unorthodox


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 31, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Vought VS-326A
> Attached page from "The CORSAIR and other - AEROPLANES VOUGHT" by Gerard P. Morgan



Yes it is the Vought V326A and thanks very much for sending through the attached article concerning this very interesting and little known machine
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 1, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> When and where? Because the situation is a little unorthodox


Sorry Tzaw, unfortunately I lost the link (shame on me )
Anyway, I remember the caption said that accident happened on an airfield in Moscow where foggy days were a very frequent condition.

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 1, 2009)

What about this easy one gentlemen?
carson






BTW Blonde Walkyrie keeps on robbing our images (mine concerning Vought V326 and Marcogrifo's concerning the crashed Nieuport)


----------



## PJay (Sep 1, 2009)

Blimey that looks like a Tiger Moth.
So it can't be a Tiger Moth.


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 1, 2009)

Stampe SV.4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 2, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Stampe SV.4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Yes this is the Stampe-Vertongen SV-4. It wasn't difficult was it? Next is gonna be a bit harder
Cheers carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 2, 2009)

PJay said:


> Blimey that looks like a Tiger Moth.
> So it can't be a Tiger Moth.



Welcone to the forum PJ. No it isn't a Tiger Moth please see my reply to Tzaw
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 2, 2009)

This is my next challenge and it looks verrry easy but it isn't and there is an interesting story bejind it. Please quote exact denomination.
Cheers
carson


----------



## Graeme (Sep 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Please quote exact denomination.



How about the SNCAC NC 900?


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 2, 2009)

I do agrre with Graeme, of course. 
Frenchs used to fly planes they built for germans...

And what about this?






Cheers


----------



## Graeme (Sep 2, 2009)

Evening Marco. Yours is the Beech Model 34 Twin-Quad.


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 2, 2009)

Graeme said:


> How about the SNCAC NC 900?



Very good Graeme spot on! and for those like myself who don't know the whole story here is a link with some beautiful picture:
Nouvelle page 1.
if you have problems with french see also following link:
Non-Luftwaffe Focke-Wulf 190s. 
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 2, 2009)

To add some pepper to this forum who was a bit sleepy as of late, what is this fellow?
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 2, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Evening Marco. Yours is the Beech Model 34 Twin-Quad.


Of course 
LOL, despite my attempts to disguise the image, it lasted only 4 mins


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 2, 2009)

And what about this one?
carson


----------



## verner (Sep 2, 2009)

Lockheed Altair?


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 2, 2009)

Altair 8F, c/n 213, X14209, J-BAUC
First Japanese Altair was 8E, c/n 188, X12230, J-BAMC


----------



## Graeme (Sep 2, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> To add some pepper to this forum who was a bit sleepy as of late, what is this fellow?


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 3, 2009)

verner said:


> Lockheed Altair?



Spot on Verner as Tzaw confirmed it is a Lockheed Altair in service with a japanese airline company operating the Japan-Manchukuo route pre WW2
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 3, 2009)

Graeme said:


>



The great Graeme can't be wrong...but I'm nevertheless surprised this time identification took a tad longer...
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 3, 2009)

What about this finnish bird?
And now gentlemen "ich bin am Ende meines Lateins", it's your turn....
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 3, 2009)

Focke-Wulf FW-44 Stieglitz

And, what is this?


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 3, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Focke-Wulf FW-44 Stieglitz
> 
> And, what is this?



Sorry Tzaw it isn't the Focke-Wulf FW-44 Stieglitz on my image I have: *VL VIIMA II*
chttp://www.aviastar.org/air/finland/vl_viima2.php
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 3, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Focke-Wulf FW-44 Stieglitz
> 
> And, what is this?



I've seen very similar types in the past but wouldn't dare to guess...
carson


----------



## herman1rg (Sep 3, 2009)

Arado Ar196?

Arado Ar 196 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 3, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Sorry Tzaw it isn't the Focke-Wulf FW-44 Stieglitz on my image I have: *VL VIIMA II*
> chttp://www.aviastar.org/air/finland/vl_viima2.php
> carson


Oooops... I had two at choice. And I chose badly.
VL Viima



herman1rg said:


> Arado Ar196?
> Arado Ar 196 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Yes. But a bit different. Why and when?


----------



## herman1rg (Sep 3, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Oooops... I had two at choice. And I chose badly.
> VL Viima
> 
> 
> Yes. But a bit different. Why and when?



I'm thinking perhaps Dutch built by Fokker 1939


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 3, 2009)

No. Other country, few years later


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 3, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> No. Other country, few years later



After my post #3686 I made some research and I was also going to answer Arado AR196A but Herman got there first.
The main difference I can see on your pic between the original A/c and the image is that the engine cowling looks very different. The original version had "bugnature" (blisters) on it (as you can see for instance on various italian fighters of the thirties and forties) and yours has none this means that a different engine requiring a different cowling must have been used.
At this stage I would say: a roumanian or bulgarian version (not german, finnish or norwegian in my opinion).
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 3, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> a roumanian or bulgarian version (not german, finnish or norwegian in my opinion).


None of these.
For making easy... Such type of the cowl was used in very well-known mono- and bi-plane fighters of the very well-known designer.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 3, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> None of these.
> For making easy... Such type of the cowl was used in very well-known mono- and bi-plane fighters of the very well-known designer.


Hmm, maybe a russian design?

Cheers


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 3, 2009)

Yes. This is the captured Ar-196A with soviet ASh-62IR engine. From soviet maritime border guard unit.


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 4, 2009)

Good evening gentlemen,
what about having a go at this one?
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 4, 2009)

Nieuport Delage 122 C1


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 5, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Nieuport Delage 122 C1



Spot on Tzaw! Are there anyone with which you are not familiar?
Cheers
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 6, 2009)

What about this?


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 7, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> What about this?



A liaison-observer aircraft, air intake looks Caudron...ish. French?
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 7, 2009)

Observer, but not French. Very far from France.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 7, 2009)

Based on the uniforms, I would say/guess Japanese.


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 8, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Based on the uniforms, I would say/guess Japanese.


Yes.
Side view:


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 8, 2009)

Kobe Te-Go





From Virtual Aircraft Museum:


> Kobe Seiko "Te"-Go experimental observation plane was designed by Prof. Tetsuo Miki of Osaka University. The sole prototype was completed in 1942 but crashed during a test flight.



It's obviously a copy of german Fieseler Storch.

Cheers


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 8, 2009)

Marcogrifo


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 8, 2009)

Nicely done Marco!


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 11, 2009)

You know I'm a flying wing freak, what about identifying this (easy for you)?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 11, 2009)

...and also this one please.....
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 11, 2009)

Dunno, carson, but can you instead identify this?






 

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 11, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Dunno, carson, but can you instead identify this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very clever Marco I wish I had an airplane like that as a child!
carson


----------



## Astaldo711 (Sep 11, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Dunno, carson, but can you instead identify this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oy! That's a Blohm und Voss Zwerg! It carries two .5 inch spitballs and can drop 2 pounds of fluffernutter in one bomb load!


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 11, 2009)

LMAO Nice Astaldo!


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 12, 2009)

Astaldo711 said:


> Oy! That's a Blohm und Voss Zwerg! It carries two .5 inch spitballs and can drop 2 pounds of fluffernutter in one bomb load!



Hi Anstaldo711,
welcome to the forum...what is *fluffernutter* a kind of "nutella" (chocolate/nuts cream)?
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 12, 2009)

Astaldo711 said:


> Oy! That's a Blohm und Voss Zwerg! It carries two .5 inch spitballs and can drop 2 pounds of fluffernutter in one bomb load!


Nice try, Astaldo 
But as you can see, it's a british... 

Cheers


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 12, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi Anstaldo711,
> welcome to the forum...what is *fluffernutter* a kind of "nutella" (chocolate/nuts cream)?
> carson



It's a sandwich with spreadable marshmallow cream and peanut butter. "Fluff" is the name of the marshmallow cream. It's quite tasty!


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 12, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> It's a sandwich with spreadable marshmallow cream and peanut butter. "Fluff" is the name of the marshmallow cream. It's quite tasty!



thanks very much for the explanation Viking: it must be good for skinny kids!
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 13, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> You know I'm a flying wing freak, what about identifying this (easy for you)?
> carson



It is getting late: this is the * Vance flying wing* a USA product.
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 13, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> ...and also this one please.....
> carson



Same applies to this which is *Pottier P/40* a flying wing made in France. Only one model remains which is housed in a museum in Brussels.
Cheers
carson


----------



## PJay (Sep 13, 2009)

Still figuring out pictures


----------



## Astaldo711 (Sep 14, 2009)

I only mentioned Blohm und Voss because they built some odd looking birds...


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 15, 2009)

Till someone finds out what Marco's #3708 is, can someone identify this?
carson


----------



## Graeme (Sep 15, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Till someone finds out what Marco's #3708 is, can someone identify this?
> carson



The Monte-Copter Model 15 Triphibian, a product of Monte-Copter Inc. of Seattle. Here are some of there earlier designs which culminated with the Triphibian...


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 15, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Till someone finds out what Marco's #3708 is, can someone identify this?
> carson


Please, don't take my question too seriously 
It was only a joke  
Oh, and the answer is in the filename 

Anyway, if someone wants to know more here is the link (very interesting site IMO): http://www.collectair.com/woodason.html

Cheers


----------



## AMCKen (Sep 16, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Please, don't take my question too seriously
> It was only a joke
> Oh, and the answer is in the filename
> 
> ...



Quite right. Fascinating article.


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 16, 2009)

Graeme said:


> The Monte-Copter Model 15 Triphibian, a product of Monte-Copter Inc. of Seattle. Here are some of there earlier designs which culminated with the Triphibian...



Yes Graeme that's what it is and thanks for showing pics of this genealogy of this interesting chopper!
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 16, 2009)

I'll try another:


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Sep 17, 2009)

Hello VB, the russian design is the Yakovlev Yak-200, a tactical reconnaissance and artillery spotting airplane which didn´t see production.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 17, 2009)

New one...


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Sep 17, 2009)

Hi Graeme, the Edo XOSE-1


----------



## AMCKen (Sep 17, 2009)

Edo OSE - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 17, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hi Graeme, the Edo XOSE-1



Wasn't the EDO XOSE supposed to be a floatplane?
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 17, 2009)

Excellent, mine lasted over 4 hours this time! 

Nicely done Emilio


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 18, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Wasn't the EDO XOSE supposed to be a floatplane?
> carson


I thought you was right, carson, but these pics I've found on Aerofiles site are a bit misleading to me 






and this is said to be XOSE-1 again (?)





Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 18, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> I thought you was right, carson, but these pics I've found on Aerofiles site are a bit misleading to me
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Marco
Aerofiles is also misleading for me.
There is a pic of XOSE1 with normal landing gear and of XOSE2 as a floatplane. Then again there is a pic of XOSE1 as floatplane!
As a result we don't know which is which
Cheers
carson


----------



## Graeme (Sep 18, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hi Graeme, the Edo XOSE-1



Correct. How are you Emilio? I see you're continuing to rocket up the AviaQuiz charts! 



carson1934 said:


> Wasn't the EDO XOSE supposed to be a floatplane?
> carson



Hi Carson! It is. The undercarriage was called "Ferry Gear." Simply a method of moving the machine for cross-country flying. The wheels were then replaced with floats, and back into the water.


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 19, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Correct. How are you Emilio? I see you're continuing to rocket up the AviaQuiz charts!
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Carson! It is. The undercarriage was called "Ferry Gear." Simply a method of moving the machine for cross-country flying. The wheels were then replaced with floats, and back into the water.



Thanks for the information Graeme.
BTW may I also take this opportunity to congratulate Emilio on his numerous medals won at Aviaquiz.
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 20, 2009)

Good afternoon gentleman
may I bother your Sunday rest and please ask you to identify this?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 20, 2009)

and this "zinc" as well, please?
carson



[/IMG]


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 20, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Good afternoon gentleman
> may I bother your Sunday rest and please ask you to identify this?
> carson



Vultee P-66 Vanguard


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 20, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> and this "zinc" as well, please?
> carson
> 
> 
> ...


Salmson Phrygane..., so I think


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 20, 2009)

Nicely done!


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 20, 2009)

Right on both items Tzaw! and congratulations on the Salmson Phrygane which wasn't easy at all and with so many look-alikes...just for the sake of nitpicking the Vultee Vanguard should be V/61 (so it is on aerofiles)
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 20, 2009)

Tzaw or whoever cares to anszwer this:
I have problems in identifying this a/C since you are so much better than myself would you save more headaches to the undersigned. Thanks
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Bristol Brigand

Edit:
Exactly B.Mk.I


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 20, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Bristol Brigand
> 
> Edit:
> Exactly B.Mk.I



Thanks Tzaw, yet I have in my files two pages with pics of the Bristol Brigand and couldn't recognize it. I must be getting really old!
Cheers
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 20, 2009)

Easy or not?






Cheers


----------



## B-17engineer (Sep 20, 2009)

Hard to tell, can't see the front.....


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 20, 2009)

Not easy.
Sixth (and last) prototype of Parnall N.2A Panther.
Other photo from Putnam's _Parnall Aircraft Since 1914_ by Kenneth E. Wixey


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 20, 2009)

Tz, that was impressive!

Ok a new one:







Not too difficult, but I do find it interesting.


----------



## Graeme (Sep 21, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Other photo from Putnam's _Parnall Aircraft Since 1914_ by Kenneth E. Wixey



G'day TW. Found a John Batchelor painting which shows well the Panther's front hydrovane (to prevent overturning during ditching) and impressive looking flotation bags.







vikingBerserker said:


> Not too difficult, but I do find it interesting.



Hi VB. A torpedo equipped Douglas World Cruiser?


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 21, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Not easy.
> Sixth (and last) prototype of Parnall N.2A Panther.
> Other photo from Putnam's _Parnall Aircraft Since 1914_ by Kenneth E. Wixey



Yep very impressive
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 21, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Hi VB. A torpedo equipped Douglas World Cruiser?


Yes, Graeme, I had the same thought 
But that strange fin flash on rudder puzzled me: can't be US...

Fortunately, Mr. Putnam came and save me 






BTW, I didn't know much about Douglas World Cruisers, very fascinating story:
Douglas World Cruiser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nice choice, VB 
Cheers


----------



## Graeme (Sep 21, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Fortunately, Mr. Putnam came and save me



Well you can't argue with Mr Putnam! 

The DT-2*B*. Was it based on the DT-2? If so, they certainly trimmed the fat off it!










Marcogrifo said:


> Nice choice, VB
> Cheers



Ditto!


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 21, 2009)

Nicely done!


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 22, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Well you can't argue with Mr Putnam!
> The DT-2*B*. Was it based on the DT-2? If so, they certainly trimmed the fat off it!


Graeme,
You are right, the look of that "supposed" DT-2B was quite different from standard DT-2 
And it matches perfectly with DWC profile...
Is Putnam wrong? 
Might that be a retouched photo?
It's a mystery to me...

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 22, 2009)

Good afternoon gentlemen,
this is a rather non descript biplane. Her name please?
BTW your discussion between the DT2 and DT2B is surely interesting, from the evidence you have submitted they surely look like two difference A/c's....
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 23, 2009)

Sorry carson, I have no idea what your bipe was 

So, having found this little nice floatplane I couldn't resist to submit it to your attention 






Cheers


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 23, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Sorry carson, I have no idea what your bipe was


I too. Keine Ahnung 
After extensive search I found very similar WACOs: BSO, JWM. 
Is it WACO?


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 23, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> I too. Keine Ahnung
> After extensive search I found very similar WACOs: BSO, JWM.
> Is it WACO?


And Frank Rezich collection might give us an hint about this machine (if only I was able to figure out which... )
A Boeing?
A Stearman?

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 23, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> And Frank Rezich collection might give us an hint about this machine (if only I was able to figure out which... )
> A Boeing?
> A Stearman?
> 
> Cheers



Hi Marcogrifo,
mystery plane of my post #3755 is a *Laird LC1B* obviously you'll find more information on aerofiles.

I'm looking now for your nice little floatplane which I suspect is french. Maybe a Besson?
carson

bugger (how our australian friends would say) it isn't a Besson and at this stage I'm not even sure it is french


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 23, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> I too. Keine Ahnung
> After extensive search I found very similar WACOs: BSO, JWM.
> Is it WACO?



Hi TW
see my reply to Marcogrifo...
Cheers
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 24, 2009)

Perhaps its just the angle, but the wings don't look big enough to fly!

You've got me on this one.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 24, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi Marcogrifo,
> mystery plane of my post #3755 is a *Laird LC1B* obviously you'll find more information on aerofiles.


Nice 



> I'm looking now for your nice little floatplane which I suspect is french. Maybe a Besson?
> carson
> 
> bugger (how our australian friends would say) it isn't a Besson and at this stage I'm not even sure it is french


Yep, not a french...but you don't have to go too far 

And now...again a float-plane, or should I say two?  







I suspect this won't last much though.

Cheers


----------



## Graeme (Sep 25, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> So, having found this little nice floatplane I couldn't resist to submit it to your attention



G'day Marco! The Macchi M.16



Marcogrifo said:


> And now...again a float-plane, or should I say two?



The Blackburn T.B.


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 25, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day Marco! The Macchi M.16
> 
> 
> 
> The Blackburn T.B.



Hi Graeme
thanks for solving Marco's post #3756. In those blessed times an italian factory could sell the US Navy three Macchi M:16 (serial numbers A6005/7)
Cheers
carson


----------



## Graeme (Sep 25, 2009)

Bought an Aviation book today. First one in a very long time. One illustration from it...


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 25, 2009)

Graeme said:


> G'day Marco! The Macchi M.16
> 
> The Blackburn T.B.


Well done, you got both! 

About your post: is that a real or fictional plane?

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 25, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Bought an Aviation book today. First one in a very long time. One illustration from it...



I hope it's fictional but in the wonderful world of aviation everything may happen...
carson


----------



## AMCKen (Sep 25, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Perhaps its just the angle, but the wings don't look big enough to fly!
> 
> You've got me on this one.



It appears the whole aeroplane isn't very big. : )


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 25, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Perhaps its just the angle, but the wings don't look big enough to fly!
> 
> You've got me on this one.



Hi Viking
the small Macchi floatplane did fly (we even sold three of them to the USAF!) and if you would like to know more and see several good quality pics I suggest you visit this site:G.M.S. Gruppo Modellistico Sestese
which is however only in italian
All the best
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 25, 2009)

Thank you, carson 

Meanwhile, try this:






Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 25, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> It appears the whole aeroplane isn't very big. : )



Hi AMCKen
long time no hear. Please see my reply to Viking and BTW you might like to visit the site I indicated
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 25, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Thank you, carson
> 
> Meanwhile, try this:
> 
> ...



Hey Marco
who's got more men on wing you or me? No hard feelings on me Marco just trying to be witty....but no, I don't know what's your A/c...
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 25, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hey Marco
> who's got more men on wing you or me? No hard feelings on me Marco just trying to be witty....but no, I don't know what's your A/c...
> carson


Hi carson,
don't worry, no hard feelings at all 
I think your plane is:




a Fokker D.VIII

Cheers 


P.S.:
Oh, and do you think we could start a new thread entitled "Men over wings"?  






(BTW, this plane has already been posted and identified many posts ago...)


----------



## Graeme (Sep 26, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> About your post: is that a real or fictional plane?



Real...


----------



## Graeme (Sep 26, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Meanwhile, try this:



*The Metal Aircraft G-2 Flamingo.*

Metal Aircraft Co.

Here it is, devoid of human parasites...


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 26, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Hi carson,
> don't worry, no hard feelings at all
> I think your plane is:
> 
> ...



Yeah you're right about the Fokker DVIII
Good idea about opening a thread "Men over wings". I'll see how many websites I can find dealing with this subject.
Cheers
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 26, 2009)

Graeme said:


> *The Metal Aircraft G-2 Flamingo.*


Yes! 

Cheers

P.S.: still guessing your little flying boat...


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 26, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Yeah you're right about the Fokker DVIII
> Good idea about opening a thread "Men over wings". I'll see how many websites I can find dealing with this subject.
> Cheers
> carson


Than you, carson 

Cheers


----------



## Graeme (Sep 27, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> P.S.: still guessing your little flying boat...



Here's a clue Marco...


----------



## waggles1999 (Sep 27, 2009)

This is great - ME 262 - my favorite WW2 airplane!!

Sorry i dont know how to start a thread but can anyone identify the airplane i have attached?


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 27, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Here's a clue Marco...


Thanks Graeme,

but...an Estonian stout?  
Honestly, I prefer a lager...

Thank you for hint but still no clue ATM 

Cheers


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 27, 2009)

> but...an Estonian stout?


Belgian.


----------



## Airframes (Sep 27, 2009)

I can honestly say I have never seen that one before! Over to the experts on German experimental types.....
BTW, to start a new thread, go to the bottom of the page, and you'll se a box marked 'New Thread'. Click on this, enter your text and attach pics as normal, then click 'Submit'.


----------



## GrauGeist (Sep 27, 2009)

Perhaps the Mods can move waggles1999's post (and the responses) into it's own thread...

As far as the photo goes, it *almost* looks like a test bed for one of Dr. Lippische's designs, but a few things are bothering me...

One, the Swastika on the tail looks too sharp compared to the rest of the "branding" on that aircraft and the joint between the rudder and the vert-stab is missing where the Swastika happens to be. Also looks like a "border" where the wing's leading edge obstructs the fuselage from the viewer from the root, outwards. ALso looks like the windscreen (canopy?) is far too opaque to be able to see out of it...

I suppose it could just be a trick of the lighting at the time the photo was taken...but makes the photo look a little bit "doctored"...


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 27, 2009)

I will move it to the aircraft identification thread...


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 27, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Belgian.


Belgian?

A. Le Coq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.kbsinstitute.org/beerform.php?start=0&id=2581&d=ASC&order=pulloname

Cheers


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 27, 2009)

Airframes said:


> I can honestly say I have never seen that one before! Over to the experts on German experimental types.....
> BTW, to start a new thread, go to the bottom of the page, and you'll se a box marked 'New Thread'. Click on this, enter your text and attach pics as normal, then click 'Submit'.


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 27, 2009)

waggles1999 said:


> This is great - ME 262 - my favorite WW2 airplane!!
> 
> Sorry i dont know how to start a thread but can anyone identify the airplane i have attached?


Your post #3780
This is a Payen 22/2 Flechair not a german aircraft but a creation of that great genius who was Roland Payen a french engineer the germans just captured and impounded it.....
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 27, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Real...



Has this something to do with the Stout Metal airplanes? I can't check it out because aerofiles today is not accessible...
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 27, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> Perhaps the Mods can move waggles1999's post (and the responses) into it's own thread...
> 
> As far as the photo goes, it *almost* looks like a test bed for one of Dr. Lippische's designs, but a few things are bothering me...
> 
> ...



Hello Graugeist
long time no hear.
Please see my post #3788 to Waggles 1999
cheers
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 27, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Has this something to do with the Stout Metal airplanes? I can't check it out because aerofiles today is not accessible...
> carson


Yes! 
Well done carson, you got it! =D>

*Stout Amphibian*
Stout Amphibian

BTW, about Mr. Stout, he's the same that did this futuristic odd looking car: the Scarab






Cheers


----------



## Graeme (Sep 27, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Thank you for hint but still no clue ATM





Tzaw1 said:


> Belgian.



Hmmm...Sorry guys, dumb clue? I think you looked too "deeply" into the bottle.  *STOUT*. William B Stout certainly was a prolific inventor. Love the Scarab! Nicely done Carson.

Got another one. New to me...


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 27, 2009)

Lloyd Dr G, prototype, no. 40.08


----------



## Graeme (Sep 27, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Lloyd Dr G, prototype, no. 40.08



 Very nice Tzaw! I don't know much about it, but I saw a photo of it recently in a book published by the Smithsonian Institution; the caption calling it the Lloyd LKI. According to the book it was inspired by Italy's Caproni bombers and completed in June 1916 but apart from some disastrous taxi tests it never flew. Did a quick Google and all I could find was the same photo on a Smithsonian site...

Lloyd Type LK 1 Triplane Bomber 40.08. [photograph]


----------



## vikingBerserker (Sep 27, 2009)

Kinda tall, but pretty dam nice none the less!


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 28, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Hmmm...Sorry guys, dumb clue? I think you looked too "deeply" into the bottle.  *STOUT*.


Yep 
Actually I did a search for "Stout floatplane" and nothing came out; found later that the correct query terms were "Stout amphibian" 

And now, after the "Men On Wings" thread, I'd like to start the obvious answer "Ladies On Wings" thread:






Can you guess (the plane)?

Cheers


----------



## Graeme (Sep 28, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Yep
> Actually I did a search for "Stout floatplane" and nothing came out



G'day mate! Actually we're all familiar with Aerofiles so I thought everyone would start there using "Stout" but of course you would have to assume it's American...I guess I assumed too much. 



Marcogrifo said:


> Can you guess (the plane)?



Sure can! The reason being that while looking for your previous "humans on a wing" image I stumbled across this site. I was going to counter-attack with the Aeromairine 75 but now I'm guessing that we're sourcing from the same site? 

* The Luscombe 8C Silvaire Deluxe. 

Winged Wonders AirSpace*


----------



## Graeme (Sep 28, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> And now, after the "Men On Wings" thread, I'd like to start the obvious answer "Ladies On Wings" thread



I'll keep a lookout for more "humans on a wing" images, but in the meantime how about "humans under wings?" Plenty of those about...


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 28, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Yes!
> Well done carson, you got it! =D>
> 
> *Stout Amphibian*
> ...



Hi Marco
I saw the Scarab too while investigating the Srout site however your pic is much better than the one I have found.
Wasn't it a beautiful piece of automotive machinery with a futuristic look?
BTW * do you also have problems in accessing Aerofiles*? It seems there is an internal server error...
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 28, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Lloyd Dr G, prototype, no. 40.08



Your post #3793

Hi Tzaw
nicely done mate even if it didn't fly it is an interesting and rare pic
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 28, 2009)

And what about this one gentlemen on "winged wonders"? Just for the pic (After all men and all women now lots of girls and three men)
I think the aircraft was a Sikorsky but I still have to check it out.
Cheers and let it not be a blue Monday
carson






This is no Sikorsky but an Aeromarine 75 "Buckeye" do visit the Aeromarine site it has old beautiful vintage pics


----------



## Graeme (Sep 28, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> And what about this one gentlemen on "winged wonders"? Just for the pic (After all men and all women now lots of girls and three men)
> I think the aircraft was a Sikorsky but I still have to check it out.



? Hi Carson. The "site" tells you it's the* Aeromarine 75*. Have another look.

http://blog.nasm.si.edu/2009/03/19/winged-wonders/#more-34


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 28, 2009)

Graeme said:


> ? Hi Carson. The "site" tells you it's the* Aeromarine 75*. Have another look.
> 
> Winged Wonders AirSpace



Hi Graeme
thanks I realized after dashing the pic to you that the name of the aircraft was in the site therefore I re-edited my post and inserted the correct name
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Sep 28, 2009)

And yet more people. Photo from "Consolidated PBY Catalina" by Krzysztof Janowicz.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Sep 28, 2009)

Nlce finding Tzaw 

Wow, I never realized how impressive wingspan the Catalina has...

Cheers


----------



## AMCKen (Sep 29, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Nlce finding Tzaw
> 
> Wow, I never realized how impressive wingspan the Catalina has...
> 
> Cheers



104 feet (31.7 m) helps give the 2500 mile (4000 km) range. Cruise at 125mph (200 kph) would mean 20 hours aloft. : )


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 29, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> And yet more people. Photo from "Consolidated PBY Catalina" by Krzysztof Janowicz.



Hi Tzaw

how impressive your pic is! I never realized the Catalina's wingspan was so important...
carson


----------



## Degs (Sep 29, 2009)

Found a different Payen 22/2 Flechair. The Swastika still looks off ??
Must have been funny paint.


----------



## Degs (Sep 29, 2009)

Just to prove, even decades later, the men on wings cult is going strong !


----------



## Pong (Sep 29, 2009)

Degs said:


> Found a different Payen 22/2 Flechair. The Swastika still looks off ??
> Must have been funny paint.



Man I would love to do a profile based on that airplane (If I could find the correct lineart.)

And just curious, how many men are on the PBY's wing?


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 29, 2009)

Degs said:


> Found a different Payen 22/2 Flechair. The Swastika still looks off ??
> Must have been funny paint.



Or maybe the pic has been retouched or as you say "doctored" anyway don't forget that this a/c was impounded from the french by the germans hence german markings
Cheers
carson

Hi Degs
good to see somebody from AlKhobar.
I was there some 25 years ago working for an italian company. I'm sure I wouldn't recognize it now!


----------



## AMCKen (Sep 29, 2009)

Pong said:


> And just curious, how many men are on the PBY's wing?



I see about 97 and the whole wing isn't in the photo. Could be 2 or 3 more to total 100.


----------



## verner (Sep 29, 2009)

Carson,
Seems like I read somewhere that the guy that ran Aerofiles had either gotten very ill or has passed away. Hope it's the former(and wellness) and not latter.


----------



## Pong (Sep 30, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> I see about 97 and the whole wing isn't in the photo. Could be 2 or 3 more to total 100.


----------



## carson1934 (Sep 30, 2009)

verner said:


> Carson,
> Seems like I read somewhere that the guy that ran Aerofiles had either gotten very ill or has passed away. Hope it's the former(and wellness) and not latter.



Hi Verner
thanks very much for your information I didn't know anything about it
carson

PS I just tried Aerofiles 5' ago and it is now working!


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 2, 2009)

Help needed please

In googling around the site of the Moscow Aviation Institute I came across this unusual aircraft designated only with the acronym SABCA (Small Agile Battlefield Aircraft).
Anyone who might throw some light on this mysterious machine? Or is it fictional (albeit it doesn't look like it)?

Also is there a good link relating to aircrafts built by the MAI?
Thanks very much for your help
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Oct 2, 2009)

You must ask Waynos


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 3, 2009)

*Waynos
*
Please check PM
carson


----------



## Waynos (Oct 3, 2009)

Hi Carson. The image shows the Miles M.100 Student. This was a trainer that first flew in the 1950's so is very real. It was restored and remarketed in the 1980's too but didn't sell. At the moment I am sat it Crewe football ground waiting to watch them play my team Rotherham so I will post a bit more detail when I get home in about 4 hours


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 5, 2009)

*Hi Gentlemen
*
This forum is languishing: no offers, no challenges, why?
Let's start with this shall we?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 5, 2009)

and again...
what about this vintage floatplane?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 5, 2009)

and now a diagram for a change...and that's the last
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Oct 5, 2009)

Bernard 20-C1
Floatplane - ?


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 5, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Bernard 20-C1
> Floatplane - ?



I have it as the Bernard 74-01...
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 5, 2009)

I couldn't resist the temptation of sending through another beautiful vintage floatplane of the thirties...
carson


----------



## Graeme (Oct 5, 2009)

*Comte AC-4 Gentleman (HB-KIL)...*





*Gallaudet D-4 (A2653)...*


----------



## Tzaw1 (Oct 5, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I have it as the Bernard 74-01...
> carson


Exactly


----------



## verner (Oct 5, 2009)

Second Floater is a Bellanca 77-320. Cheers. I also have the other as a Bernard 74.


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 6, 2009)

Graeme said:


> *Comte AC-4 Gentleman (HB-KIL)...*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes Graeme right on both items...Comte and Gallaudet D4
cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 6, 2009)

verner said:


> Second Floater is a Bellanca 77-320. Cheers. I also have the other as a Bernard 74.



Yes Verner correct: Bellanca 77/320...
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 6, 2009)

Don't you think this is an interesting machine: but what is it?
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Oct 6, 2009)

At first I thinked - Hiller.
But this is Hamilton.
Photos: Hamilton Helicopter Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 6, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> At first I thinked - Hiller.
> But this is Hamilton.
> Photos: Hamilton Helicopter Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net



Yes indeed dear TW it as the Hamilton and thanks for sending the interesting link
Cheers
carson

Now your turn for some offers....


----------



## Tzaw1 (Oct 6, 2009)

Big and small. What, when and why? Maybe, where?


----------



## verner (Oct 6, 2009)

Big one looks like a Lockheed Vega.


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 7, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Big and small. What, when and why? Maybe, where?



The problem is not the big it is the small one which is being refulled...
carson


----------



## verner (Oct 8, 2009)




----------



## Graeme (Oct 8, 2009)

Buhl?


----------



## Tzaw1 (Oct 8, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Buhl?



Yes.
Shell's Lockheed Vega 5A (pilot James H. Doolittle) and Buhl Flying Bull Pup LA-1 (probably there is Charles Sugg's machine) at Seventh National Air Tour for The Edsel B. Ford Reliability Trophy and The Great Lakes Light Plane Trophy. Photo made probably between July,4 - July, 7, 1931 (Sugg crashed in Yorkville, July, 7th).
Photo was from "The Ford Air Tours 1925-1931" by Lesley Forden.


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 8, 2009)

To keep the ball rolling may I suggest identification of the following tidy biplane?
carson


----------



## Graeme (Oct 8, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> To keep the ball rolling may I suggest identification of the following tidy biplane?
> carson



*The Naval Aircraft Factory XOSN-1*


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 8, 2009)

Nicely done Graeme!

New one:


----------



## Grampa (Oct 9, 2009)

already posted in. 

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/aircraft-identification-v-1737-63.html#post231787

as NR 936


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 9, 2009)

Graeme said:


> *The Naval Aircraft Factory XOSN-1*



There's no way out...you can't beat Graeme!
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 9, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Nicely done Graeme!
> 
> New one:



Try a new one Viking!
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 9, 2009)

I'm always surprised how they were able to plan and built (and made fly!) such huge machines in WWI era...
Try to identify this giant beast! 






Cheers


----------



## Tzaw1 (Oct 9, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> I'm always surprised how they were able to plan and built (and made fly!) such huge machines in WWI era...
> Try to identify this giant beast!
> 
> 
> ...



What beast? 8)


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 9, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> I'm always surprised how they were able to plan and built (and made fly!) such huge machines in WWI era...
> Try to identify this giant beast!
> 
> 
> ...



Could it be a Witteman-Lewis XNBL Barling bomber with a different engine layout?
carson


----------



## AMCKen (Oct 9, 2009)

Graeme said:


> *The Naval Aircraft Factory XOSN-1*



Apparently not the same aircraft as an SON-1

Naval-Aircraft-Factory-SON1


----------



## AMCKen (Oct 9, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Could it be a Witteman-Lewis XNBL Barling bomber with a different engine layout?
> carson



Looks like W-style engines - Napier Lion?

Aha- Tarrant Tabor!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarrant_Tabor

also designed by Barling.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 9, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Looks like W-style engines - Napier Lion?
> 
> Aha- Tarrant Tabor!
> 
> ...


Well done! 

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 10, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Well done!
> 
> Cheers



Never heard of the Tarrant Tabor before but you learn something every day...however what an unfortunate aircraft!
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 10, 2009)

Marcogrifo, can you help me?

I know there's a copy of Aerofan magazine with information about this elusive aircraft made by CMASA in 1937. Would you be able to collect some information and if possible pics?
The only material I found was a "doctored" pic on 1000 aircraftphotos
Thanks and cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 10, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Apparently not the same aircraft as an SON-1
> 
> Naval-Aircraft-Factory-SON1



Hi AMCKen,
they should be two different airplanes, one NAF XOSN1 (serial number 0385) which is my offer that Graeme identified and NAF SON1 (serial number 1166) which is your picture.
Please consult Aerofiles.
Ciao
carson


----------



## AMCKen (Oct 11, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi AMCKen,
> they should be two different airplanes, one NAF XOSN1 (serial number 0385) which is my offer that Graeme identified and NAF SON1 (serial number 1166) which is your picture.
> Please consult Aerofiles.
> Ciao
> carson



I know they're not the same, just intrigued by the similarity in the designation. OSN and SON. : )


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 11, 2009)

Ok, I'll give another whack at it, and I couldn't find this one posted yet:


----------



## Waynos (Oct 11, 2009)

Heinkel He 274 built in France? I t may have had a froggy name too but I regret I cannot recall it.

Incidentally, the Tabor never did fly, the Barling bomber was basically the Tabor rebuilt in the USA with the engine arrangement (the root of the outcome of its disastrous attempt to fly) fixed.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 11, 2009)

Nicely done mon ami!


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 11, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Marcogrifo, can you help me?
> 
> I know there's a copy of Aerofan magazine with information about this elusive aircraft made by CMASA in 1937. Would you be able to collect some information and if possible pics?
> The only material I found was a "doctored" pic on 1000 aircraftphotos
> ...



Dear carson,
digging in my little collection of Aerofan paper magazines (and PDFs), the only mention I've found about C.M.A.S.A. BGA comes from issue 1/1982, where, in an article called "A medium bomber for the Regia Aeronautica" regarding all prototypes proposed to R.A. by italian manufacturers following the specification issued in 1934, there are only these two little paragraphes on BGA:


> *...The aeronautical concern linked up with Fiat submitted two separate projects: Ing. Rosatelli's BR.20 and Ing. Stiavelli's BGA. Both these types qualified for development and construction of one prototype of each was comitted to Fiat-Aeronautica d'Italia and C.M.A.S.A. respectively.*


And:


> *...in 1936 Giovanni De Briganti took C.M.A.S.A.'s BGA (M.M.295) to its maiden flight. Althought featuring all-metal construction and two A.80 RC.41 engines, this machine was not followed up.*



In that article there are also a photo (the middle one) and a profile for that machine:










I'm sorry I can't help you more...

Cheers


----------



## AMCKen (Oct 12, 2009)

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/basic/b-17-restoration-20136.html

No one has replied to this thread? Sounds like something y'all could help with.


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 12, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Dear carson,
> digging in my little collection of Aerofan paper magazines (and PDFs), the only mention I've found about C.M.A.S.A. BGA comes from issue 1/1982, where, in an article called "A medium bomber for the Regia Aeronautica" regarding all prototypes proposed to R.A. by italian manufacturers following the specification issued in 1934, there are only these two little paragraphes on BGA:
> 
> And:
> ...



Hi Marco
thanks very very much you were extremely helpful much more than you think. I owe you!
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 12, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Heinkel He 274 built in France? I t may have had a froggy name too but I regret I cannot recall it.
> 
> Incidentally, the Tabor never did fly, the Barling bomber was basically the Tabor rebuilt in the USA with the engine arrangement (the root of the outcome of its disastrous attempt to fly) fixed.



Hi Waynos
so I was right when I detected with my post #3848 a certain family air between the american Barling and the Tarrant Tabor...
cheers
carson


----------



## Waynos (Oct 12, 2009)

Absolutely Carson, btw, are you ok with the Miles Student that you asked me about when I was at the footy? Rotherham won by the way 

Can't remember if we've had this before or not?


----------



## Tzaw1 (Oct 12, 2009)

Excerpt from _Italian Civil and Military Aircraft_ by Jonathan Thompson.
Unfortunately, no photo.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 12, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Can't remember if we've had this before or not?


*Magni PM-3-4 Vale*





Cheers


----------



## Waynos (Oct 12, 2009)

Spot on


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 13, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Absolutely Carson, btw, are you ok with the Miles Student that you asked me about when I was at the footy? Rotherham won by the way
> 
> Can't remember if we've had this before or not?



Yes Waynos I'm OK with the Miles Student and thanks very much for your help and for the time you took.
BTW I'm a fan of Piero Magni and Marco just beat me on identification of the Vale....
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 13, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Excerpt from _Italian Civil and Military Aircraft_ by Jonathan Thompson.
> Unfortunately, no photo.



Thanks very much TW for taking the time of sending through the article on BGA (Bombardiere Genio Aeronautica), now my information on this aircraft is complete having received additional pics from Marco
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 13, 2009)

Hi Marco
sorry to bother you again.
The third (bottom) picture of your post #3859 of yesterday's date makes reference to a twin engined Savoia Marchetti aircraft. Now I can't read very well because I'll be having a laser treatment soon on my left eye whose vision is now impaired: is it Savoia Marchetti * S79B or S798 (?)*.
In spite of my googling I found no information whatsoever on the net.
Maybe you can cast some light on it?
carson

PS I think these threads are interesting for anyone eager of knowing earlier elusive italian aircrafts.


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 13, 2009)

Sorry to bother you again Waynos
I recently opened up a thread called " MAI aircrafts (Moscow Aviation Institute)" with a view of finding out the aircrafts planned and eventually built by the a.m. Insitute.
I think this should be a rather interesting subject but sofar I received no replies.
Somebody suggested you might have some data about them....
Look forward hearing from you at your earliest convenience
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 13, 2009)

Hi carson,
that plane was the *S.79B* 
I think you well know the twin-engined version of S.79 exported to Iraq and Romania...

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 14, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Hi carson,
> that plane was the *S.79B*
> I think you well know the twin-engined version of S.79 exported to Iraq and Romania...
> 
> Cheers



Thanks Marco
now it is clear. Of course I'm aware of the twin engined S79 produced under licence in Romania *IAR-JRS/79B* but your pic seems to have a solid nose whilst all the pics I have show it with a glazed nose.
Cheers
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 14, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Thanks Marco
> now it is clear. Of course I'm aware of the twin engined S79 produced under licence in Romania *IAR-JRS/79B* but your pic seems to have a solid nose whilst all the pics I have show it with a glazed nose.
> Cheers
> carson


Yes, the glazed nose is there, I think you can see it better in this zoomed in detail 






Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 14, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Yes, the glazed nose is there, I think you can see it better in this zoomed in detail
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Marco. See why I require laser treatment?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 14, 2009)

Please check PM. Thanks
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 15, 2009)

May I add this picture to the series "Men under wing"?
BTW the aircraft is a Handley Page O-400
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 15, 2009)

Please check again your PM Thanks
carson


----------



## Waynos (Oct 15, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> May I add this picture to the series "Men under wing"?
> BTW the aircraft is a Handley Page O-400
> carson



I think this thread works better if one posts a picture and so0mebody else names the plane


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 15, 2009)

Waynos said:


> I think this thread works better if one posts a picture and so0mebody else names the plane


OK, this is very very easy, but it looks nice to me so...






Cheers


----------



## thewritingwriter89 (Oct 15, 2009)

Luscombe


----------



## thewritingwriter89 (Oct 15, 2009)

Luscombe at warp speed


----------



## B-17engineer (Oct 17, 2009)

I have no clue what this is..


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 17, 2009)

thewritingwriter89 said:


> Luscombe


Yes, it's the Luscombe Silvaire again...

Cheers


----------



## AMCKen (Oct 17, 2009)

B-17engineer said:


> I have no clue what this is..



de Havilland Express - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ?


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 18, 2009)

New one:


----------



## AMCKen (Oct 18, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> New one:



My first thought was Dyke Delta, but that ain't it. 
Dyke Delta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Graeme (Oct 18, 2009)

B-17engineer said:


> I have no clue what this is..



As AMCKen pointed out, the De Havilland DH-86. Your photo shows A31-7 in RAAF Service. Same aircraft from the port side...







vikingBerserker said:


> New one:


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 18, 2009)

Nicely done sir.

Ok Graeme, I'm going to make this a little more challenging for you. I'm thinking of a plane......


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 20, 2009)

What about this nifty clean aircraft?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 22, 2009)

Good evening gentlemen (or good early morning for Australia)
no replies? is everibody asleep?
carson


----------



## verner (Oct 24, 2009)

Hey, you woke me up! Looks Italian but writing is english so...... I dunno.


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 24, 2009)

verner said:


> Hey, you woke me up! Looks Italian but writing is english so...... I dunno.



Good evening Verner,
no it isn't italian it is a US trainer *EMSCO B10* of 1933...
Cheers
carson


----------



## verner (Oct 24, 2009)

Never heard of her-thanks


----------



## B-17engineer (Oct 24, 2009)

Fairly easy.


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 25, 2009)

B-17engineer said:


> Fairly easy.



Hello and have a good Sunday
Focke-Achgelis FA.223
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 25, 2009)

This weird bird is the ________________________ (please fill the gap with the correct name  )






Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 25, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> This weird bird is the ________________________ (please fill the gap with the correct name  )
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Marco
long time no hear...
this is the Tunison Scout a horrible looking aircraft which however embodied several new findings and according to contemporary reports flew beautifully
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 25, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi Marco
> long time no hear...
> this is the Tunison Scout a horrible looking aircraft which however embodied several new findings and according to contemporary reports flew beautifully
> carson


Yes 
About how it flew, I've read this controversial comment on Virtual Aircraft Museum's page:



> 1935-48 History, It was unloaded at 10th and I Street in San Barndaino off a rail car from the Los Angles area. It was taken in pieces to Shannon Hill Airport and assembled. It was flown one time. The pilot flew it one time around the field and landed at the far end of the field. The engine quit and it went nose up. The pilot got out and said, "Never again!" After the airport was turned into a bomb plant at the start of WWII the plane was moved the Orange Show Grounds in San Barnardiano where it stayed until 1948. I lost track of it after that.



Cheers


----------



## Tzaw1 (Oct 25, 2009)

So ugly that till beauty.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 25, 2009)

I think it was used as a green house when on the ground.


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 25, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Yes
> About how it flew, I've read this controversial comment on Virtual Aircraft Museum's page:
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Marco
well if you consult "the best of wings magazine" you'll find very laudatory comments on the Tunison. Well this means once more if necessary that you cannot take anything for granted (especially on the web)...
Cheers
carson
books.google.it/books?isbn=1574883682...


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 25, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> So ugly that till beauty.



Hi Tzaw good evening
I cannot thank you enough for the extensive literature on MAI aircrafts you sent me. I'm slowly going thru it but it will take me at least till year's end to digest the whole material!
Cheers
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 26, 2009)

A very easy one (but funny shot):







Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 29, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> A very easy one (but funny shot):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Marco I believe everybody has fallen asleep on this forum
Since three days have gone by since your last offer without any reaction I suggest you should give us a clue or else name outright your a/c....
Cheers
carson


----------



## AMCKen (Oct 29, 2009)

Appears to be a trainer all right, extra wheels to prevent ground loops and nose-overs. But they managed to stand it in an awkward position anyway. : )


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 30, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi Marco I believe everybody has fallen asleep on this forum
> Since three days have gone by since your last offer without any reaction I suggest you should give us a clue or else name outright your a/c....
> Cheers
> carson


Some hints: it was italian, it was a trainer (ok, this isn't really a big hint ) and it was nicknamed (and painted) like a bird that not so used to fly 

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 30, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Some hints: it was italian, it was a trainer (ok, this isn't really a big hint ) and it was nicknamed (and painted) like a bird that not so used to fly
> 
> Cheers



Hi Marco

I really dunno what it is but I can offer three options: Fiat Ansaldo AS1, IMAM Ro/5 and Piaggio P9
Probably none of the three
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 30, 2009)

The Piaggio Dodo?


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 30, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> The Piaggio Dodo?


Sorry VB, ain't 

OK, I really don't want to prolong the pain any further 






*The "Penguin"* 

Cheers


----------



## Flyboy2 (Oct 30, 2009)

Ok I got one


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 30, 2009)

Hughes XH-17 Flying Crane with a whopping range of 30-40 miles.


----------



## AMCKen (Oct 30, 2009)

Flyboy2 said:


> Ok I got one



Hughes XH-17 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Flyboy2 (Oct 30, 2009)

Dang, nice job!
Ok maybe a bit of a harder one, another shot at trying to stump people


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 30, 2009)

Supermarine Nighthawk


----------



## Flyboy2 (Oct 30, 2009)

Hmmm...
Ok one more shot and then i'll crawl into my corner


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 30, 2009)

Barling XNBL-1 

It was the 1923 version of the Italian Lance 

I only know this one because I love old bombers


----------



## Flyboy2 (Oct 30, 2009)

VB you are the man!

Ok one more!


----------



## vikingBerserker (Oct 30, 2009)

Ok, this one I have no clue.


----------



## Flyboy2 (Oct 30, 2009)

We'll see if anybody else does... But seriously, you know some obscure aircraft very well


----------



## Marcogrifo (Oct 30, 2009)

Flyboy2 said:


> VB you are the man!
> 
> Ok one more!



*Short Sturgeon SB.3 ASW (Anti Submarine Warfare)*

Cheers


----------



## Graeme (Oct 31, 2009)

Here's one, AviaQuiz style...


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 31, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Here's one, AviaQuiz style...



Thislooks like the nacelle of a blimp...
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 31, 2009)

and what about this beautiful old floatplane?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 31, 2009)

and also this one please and now I will retire into my own small dark corner
carson


----------



## Graeme (Oct 31, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Thislooks like the nacelle of a blimp...
> carson



It does, but it's not. Here's the cockpit...


----------



## Graeme (Oct 31, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> and what about this beautiful old floatplane?
> carson



CAMS 55 Flying boat.



carson1934 said:


> and also this one please and now I will retire into my own small dark corner
> carson



The Japanese Hiro G2H1.


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 2, 2009)

Graeme said:


> CAMS 55 Flying boat.
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese Hiro G2H1.



Right on both Graeme...to be quite accurate the CAMS55 is the version CAMS55-10 with Gnome-Rhone engines
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 2, 2009)

I'm crawling out of my hole to offer to you laides and gentlemen the following which is...(the aircraft not the guy)?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 2, 2009)

...and since I've crawled out of my hole I'll offer you free of charge also this floaplane, which is?...
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 2, 2009)

Graeme said:


> It does, but it's not. Here's the cockpit...



Hello!

I trust this is the Wilson Private Explorer! No?


----------



## Graeme (Nov 2, 2009)

Storch said:


> Hello!
> I trust this is the Wilson Private Explorer! No?



Very nicely done Storch!


----------



## JP Vieira (Nov 2, 2009)

Great thread!!!!
More challenges please


----------



## Marcogrifo (Nov 2, 2009)

Graeme said:


> Very nicely done Storch!


Yes, indeed.
Another I couldn't ever guessed, anyway 

@carson: sorry, no idea about yours float-planes, so...try to guess "mine" 






Cheers


----------



## Waynos (Nov 2, 2009)

Ah, at last, one I recognise! Its the Hall XPTBH-1


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 2, 2009)

Interesting bird, but beautiful.


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 3, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Yes, indeed.
> Another I couldn't ever guessed, anyway
> 
> @carson: sorry, no idea about yours float-planes, so...try to guess "mine"
> ...



Sorry Marco I knew your offer but Waynos got their first!
carson

PS before giving clearance for my yesterday's floatplanes we should wait for the great Graeme!


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 3, 2009)

to please JP Vieira one more challenge
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Nov 3, 2009)

Waynos said:


> Ah, at last, one I recognise! Its the Hall XPTBH-1


Well done  (but for the sake of precision exact designation seems to be *Hall XPTBH-2*)
Horizon Information Portal

Cheers


----------



## Waynos (Nov 3, 2009)

Picky


----------



## JP Vieira (Nov 3, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> to please JP Vieira one more challenge
> carson



Thank you 
Is it the Japanese Kawanishi H6K Mavis?


----------



## Graeme (Nov 3, 2009)

*Axis History Forum • View topic - Early JNAF Aircraft*


----------



## Storch (Nov 4, 2009)

Graeme said:


> *Axis History Forum • View topic - Early JNAF Aircraft*



When I search this japanese floatplane I was looking for this link and since a long time! Thank you very much to give us!


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 4, 2009)

Graeme said:


> *Axis History Forum • View topic - Early JNAF Aircraft*



That's what it is the Giyu No.3 built by Kawasaki...I knew Graeme wouldn't let us down
carson

Now please clear posts #3928 and 3929...I won't reveal them till I hear from you


----------



## JP Vieira (Nov 4, 2009)

Can i do one...?
Here is one for you to find out (don't if it was already done before).
Best regards


----------



## Marcogrifo (Nov 4, 2009)

JP Vieira said:


> Can i do one...?
> Here is one for you to find out (don't if it was already done before).
> Best regards


*Blohm und Voss Bv 155 V1*

Cheers

P.S.: look at this beautiful scale model of it:
Blohm und Voss Bv 155 V1 Part Two Painting and Finishing by Andrea Mariottini (Pegasus 1/72)


----------



## JP Vieira (Nov 4, 2009)

Ciao MarcoGrifo
You're absolutly right.
The model you presented is wonderful


----------



## Flyboy2 (Nov 4, 2009)

Alright I got one


----------



## Marcogrifo (Nov 4, 2009)

Flyboy2 said:


> Alright I got one



*Bristol Buckmaster*

Cheers


----------



## Marcogrifo (Nov 4, 2009)

I love trimotors  so why not post this lovely clumsy fat bird? 






Cheers


----------



## verner (Nov 5, 2009)

The lovely Northrop YC-125


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 5, 2009)

Flyboy2 said:


> Alright I got one


Bristol Buckingham


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 5, 2009)

Since no replies have been received sofar let me clear following entries which evidently proved rather difficult:
#3928 = norwegian Marinens MF(8 (8 built)
#3929 = nowegian Marinens MF/12 (1 built)
now I'll crawl back in my hiding place till next time
cheers
carson

Looking at the times last messages were posted I realize that there is a crowd of early birds!


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 5, 2009)

Before I crawl back into my hidedout let me submit following offer:




Cheers
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 5, 2009)

LWS-3 Mewa


----------



## JP Vieira (Nov 5, 2009)

Can I make one?
Here it is:


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 5, 2009)

JP Vieira said:


> Can I make one?
> Here it is:


See:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/aircraft-identification-v-1737-254.html#post564657


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 6, 2009)

Although not italian this tiny bird had an italian nickname....
carson



[/IMG]


----------



## JP Vieira (Nov 6, 2009)

Is it American...?


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 6, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Although not italian this tiny bird had an italian nickname....
> carson
> 
> 
> ...


Aeronca?


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 6, 2009)

And these strange containers hanging from the Spit's belly are what (a true story)?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 6, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Aeronca?



No Tzaw it isn't Aeronca but it shouldn't be difficult for you...it is from eastern Europe...
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 6, 2009)

JP Vieira said:


> Is it American...?



No sorry mi senhor see my reply to Tzaw
carson


----------



## JP Vieira (Nov 6, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> And these strange containers hanging from the Spit's belly are what (a true story)?
> carson



Is it the story of air-launched beer kegs over the Normandy beaches: beers for the boys...?


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 6, 2009)

JP Vieira said:


> Is it the story of air-launched beer kegs over the Normandy beaches: beers for the boys...?



Spot on Veira that's exactly what they are: beer kegs for the thirsty british tommies!
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 7, 2009)

A new one:




[/quote]


----------



## Storch (Nov 7, 2009)

An european new one :






Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 7, 2009)

Storch said:


> An european new one :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Breda Ba-27 "Metallico" (prototype)
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 7, 2009)

Well done Carson ! It is good the Breda Ba 26 Metallico!


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 8, 2009)

Clearing entry #3957 = *Benes Mraz Be-60* nickname "Bestiola" (freely translated "pet")
Cheers
carson


----------



## JP Vieira (Nov 8, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Although not italian this tiny bird had an italian nickname....
> carson
> 
> 
> ...



Can you, please, provide another clue...?


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 8, 2009)

JP Vieira said:


> Can you, please, provide another clue...?



See my post #3969
Cheers

carson


----------



## JP Vieira (Nov 8, 2009)

Missed that one...sorry

Can I propose another one...?
Here it is:


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 8, 2009)

Junkers EF61


----------



## JP Vieira (Nov 9, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Junkers EF61




You' re absolutely right. Your turn, please


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 10, 2009)

and this fat ugly thing what might it be?
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 10, 2009)

Junkers W34


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 10, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Junkers W34



Yes Tzaw and this is the military version called Junkers K.43 "Bush bomber"
cheers
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 10, 2009)

New one:


----------



## verner (Nov 11, 2009)

Looks like Nardi FN 333 Riviera. cheers


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 11, 2009)

Nicely done verner!


----------



## AMCKen (Nov 11, 2009)

Similar to the Republic SeaBee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_Seabee

From the wikipedia article on the 'Riviera'.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIAI_Marchetti_FN.333_Riviera)

"Tragedy struck on May 20 2007 when Riviera #0110 (N95DR) crashed while attempting an emergency landing in Minden, Nevada. N95DR was almost certainly the best restored and most often photographed Riveria in the world. It was a regular visitor to the EAA Oshkosh, and Clear Lake Splash-Ins."


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm sure our friend senhor Vieira will appreciate following image pertinent to a couple of floatplanes of the portuguese air force which are....?
carson


----------



## Krabat42 (Nov 11, 2009)

...Junkers K43W, the military floatplane version of the W34 again. How about this guy?






Krabat


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 11, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> ...Junkers K43W, the military floatplane version of the W34 again. How about this guy?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Welcome back to the great Krabat.How's your son?
The girl is the late Margaret , Queen Elizabeth's sister and he's the ex RAF pilot with whom she had a love affair (but I forgot his name)
carson

It just came to my mind Peter Townsend


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 11, 2009)

I'm sure Tzaw recognizes this badly stored aircraft.....
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 11, 2009)

Good evening Tzaw
I sent you a PM
cheers
carson


----------



## Capt. Vick (Nov 11, 2009)

Isn't that the Martin Mariner scaled test vehicle stored at Silver Hills?


----------



## JP Vieira (Nov 11, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I'm sure our friend senhor Vieira will appreciate following image pertinent to a couple of floatplanes of the portuguese air force which are....?
> carson



It is allways a pleasure to see: Grazie


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 12, 2009)

Capt. Vick said:


> Isn't that the Martin Mariner scaled test vehicle stored at Silver Hills?



Sorry Sir it isn't
cheers
carson


----------



## Capt. Vick (Nov 12, 2009)

I thought I had that one! I should have known not to tread were the ID gods roam!


----------



## Krabat42 (Nov 12, 2009)

> Welcome back to the great Krabat.How's your son?



Thank you, carson. Well, he's the loud, smelly and sticky center of my life. If there's trouble at work - just look at him sleeping in his cot and everything is unimportant. I think you know what i mean. 

And yes, it's Peter Townsend. I just thought some "out of the box" would be a nice change. To be honest, most of the last quests were too tough for me. Just no time to do the necessary research. But be sure that I visit the thread every few days. You're never too old to learn something new.

Krabat


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 12, 2009)

Krabat42 said:


> Thank you, carson. Well, he's the loud, smelly and sticky center of my life. If there's trouble at work - just look at him sleeping in his cot and everything is unimportant. I think you know what i mean.
> 
> And yes, it's Peter Townsend. I just thought some "out of the box" would be a nice change. To be honest, most of the last quests were too tough for me. Just no time to do the necessary research. But be sure that I visit the thread every few days. You're never too old to learn something new.
> 
> Krabat



Yes Krabat referring to the first sentence of your message I understand perfectly well what you mean and if your work occasionally drives you away from your son then the best moment of your trip is going to be when upon return home you'll see your son's smile (and believe me having been a travelling salesman I have a certain experience of this feeling).
All the very best
carson


----------



## Graeme (Nov 12, 2009)

Capt. Vick said:


> Isn't that the Martin Mariner scaled test vehicle stored at Silver Hills?


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 12, 2009)

That actually looks like it would be fun to fly.


----------



## AMCKen (Nov 13, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> That actually looks like it would be fun to fly.



Wiki says it has Chevrolet power.

PBM Mariner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 13, 2009)

Graeme said:


>



Graeme with due respect I have different information from which it appears to be the Moskalev SAM16...now what it is?
carson

After careful scrutiny you should be right: the engine cowlings of the Moskalev have blisters (similar to the italian fighters of the forties) besides the distance between the nose and the cockpit seems to be a bit longer on the Moskalev.
If this is the case I apologize for misleading competitors...but of course one more pic of the Moskalev would help, is there a chance that Graeme has one within his immense filing system?


----------



## Graeme (Nov 13, 2009)

I've only got a model photo, but just by looking at the wing float bracing, keel shape and the engine cowling as you mentioned, I remain convinced your photo depicts the Martin 162A which I understand has been fully restored and can be seen on Airliners.net.


----------



## Capt. Vick (Nov 13, 2009)




----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 13, 2009)

SAM-16 was never finished .


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 13, 2009)

Graeme said:


> I've only got a model photo, but just by looking at the wing float bracing, keel shape and the engine cowling as you mentioned, I remain convinced your photo depicts the Martin 162A which I understand has been fully restored and can be seen on Airliners.net.



Thanks very much Graeme I didnìt expect less from you.
I came across the pic of what I believed it was Moskalev on a polish forum. I couldn't translate the text and assumed outright it was a SAM-16.
However somebody was later kind enough to translate the text into English and my misunderstanding was evident.
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 13, 2009)

Attention Graeme
Hi Graeme sorry to bother you again but you know I'm a screwball...
I understand the Rechswehr didn't accept Rohrbach's plans for a three engined bomber (YEAR 1930) which was supposed to be called "Roterra. "Would you have in your system a sketch or design or silhouette of this aircraft? I read somewhere that it was similar to the Dornier "Y" (15) and plans were licensed to Czechoslovakia where a similar aircraft was produced under the name of Avia B46.
I have found on the net plenty of pics of the Dornier Y and only one of the Avia but nothing at all on the "Roterra".
I know I could have issued a thread on this subject but if Graeme doesn't know who does?
Cheers
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 13, 2009)

From _Luftwaffe Secret Projects: Strategic Bombers 1935-1945_ by Dieter Herwig and Heinz Rode.


----------



## beaupower32 (Nov 13, 2009)

A little history on this aircraft. 

Two ...... were built, one with a wingspan of 110 feet (#72-1876) and one with 132 feet (#72-1875). Both were 124 feet (38 m) long and powered by four Pratt Whitney JT8D-17 engines, each with 15,500 lbf (68.9 kN) of thrust.

The first flight was August 26, 1975. The second prototype followed in December. They were tested for some time at McDonnell Douglas as the Boeing entry was not ready until almost a year later. In November 1976 both designs were transferred to Edwards Air Force Base for head-to-head testing, including lifting heavy loads like tanks and artillery from dirt airfields at Graham Ranch, off the end of Runway 22.

The ...... completed a 600 hour flight test program in 1977. By this point the seeds of the AMST program's demise had already been sown. In March 1976 the Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David C. Jones asked the Air Force Systems Command to see if it was possible to use a single model of the AMST for both strategic and tactical airlift roles, or alternately, if it was possible to develop non-STOL derivatives of the AMST for the strategic airlift role. This led to a series of studies which basically stated that such a modification was not easy, and would require major changes to either design to produce a much larger aircraft.

Although the ...... and ....... both met or exceeded the specifications of the contest, the increasing importance of the strategic vs. tactical mission eventually led the Air Force to conclude that they were better off with an updated C-130 in the short term. The AMST program was canceled in 1979. In January 1979, the C-X Task Force formed to develop the required strategic aircraft. The C-X eventually became the C-17 Globemaster III, developed on the basis of the .......

After the flight test program, the two aircraft were stored at the AMARC, located at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base. One was subsequently displayed at the nearby Pima Air Space Museum.AMARC's ....., 72-1875 (the first one built), was later returned to flying status by McDonnell Douglas in 1996, and resumed flying in April 1997. The intention was to use the .....to evaluate new technology for advanced tactical transports. After an engine failed, the aircraft was deemed too expensive to repair and was returned to storage, sitting for a number of years at the Boeing facility at Air Force Plant 42, in Palmdale, California, before being moved to back to Edwards, where it is now on display at the Air Force Flight Test Center Museum's "Century Circle" display area, just outside the base's west gate.

Info from Wikipedia


----------



## Capt. Vick (Nov 13, 2009)

McDonnell Douglas YC-15


----------



## beaupower32 (Nov 13, 2009)

Ah, very nice, you got it right on the nose.


----------



## Capt. Vick (Nov 13, 2009)

Great info my Palmetto friend


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 13, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> From _Luftwaffe Secret Projects: Strategic Bombers 1935-1945_ by Dieter Herwig and Heinz Rode.



Thanks very much Tzaw for your speedy and comprehensive information
Cheers
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 13, 2009)

New one


----------



## VG-33 (Nov 14, 2009)

In France

Le Bourget, Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace.

Too easy, it's just to put the others on the way...


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 14, 2009)

VG-33 said:


> In France
> 
> Le Bourget, Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace.
> 
> Too easy, it's just to put the others on the way...


But nice...


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 14, 2009)

Nicely done. Never seen it before, but looks cool as hell.


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 14, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> But nice...



This is a beautiful aircraft like Viking Berserker I have never seen it before
carson


----------



## beaupower32 (Nov 14, 2009)

Yep, nice aircraft, never seen it before. Looks like its a speedy little demon.


----------



## AMCKen (Nov 15, 2009)

Really needs some spinners on those engines though.


----------



## JP Vieira (Nov 16, 2009)

Great aircraft!


----------



## Flyboy2 (Nov 16, 2009)

Ok I got one


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 17, 2009)

...and this rather scared pilot what aircraft is he riding on?
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 17, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> ...and this rather scared pilot what aircraft is he riding on?
> carson



The Loire 130. Isn't it?


----------



## Capt. Vick (Nov 17, 2009)

Man, that is one butt-ugly plane!


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 17, 2009)

Just based on that it had to be French.


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 18, 2009)

Storch said:


> The Loire 130. Isn't it?



Yes Storch that's what it is the Loire 130 and yes it is ugly but a very efficient and performing aircraft so much so that several planes were still on duty in the french colonies till the middle fifties (first flight 1934).
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 18, 2009)

and what about this old trimotor of the thirties?
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 18, 2009)

Letov Š-32. Third from five (OK-ADA to OK-ADE).
Prototype OK-ADA:


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 18, 2009)

Yes Tzaw it is of course the Letov š32.
BTW I have just come across following picture whilst googling and visiting the site rareaircraft.greyfalcon in the chapter dedicated to Finland.
This is called *Morko Moriann* and no additional information.
Would you have some specific information about this mystery plane?
Thanks
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 18, 2009)

Maurane Saulnier MS-406 captured by Luftwaffe?


----------



## Capt. Vick (Nov 18, 2009)

a Maurane Saulnier MS-406 with a russian engine. Necessary Finnish improvisation perhaps?


----------



## AMCKen (Nov 18, 2009)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morane-Saulnier_M.S.406#Finnish_variants


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 18, 2009)

Storch said:


> Maurane Saulnier MS-406 captured by Luftwaffe?



Careful my friend the markings are finnish *not* german...
carson


----------



## Capt. Vick (Nov 18, 2009)

...based on the shape of the nose, new intake and exhaust stacks. Looked like the nose of a Yak to me.


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 18, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Hi AMCKen
thanks to your pointing out the right Wiki page the mystery is now solved:it is a much revised Morane-Saulnier MS406 which the finnish called Mörkö Moraan with a soviet Klimov M-105P engine, several structural improvements and new weaponry. The brave finnish pilots caused the soviets quite a lot of trouble with this improved machine!
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 18, 2009)

Capt. Vick said:


> ...based on the shape of the nose, new intake and exhaust stacks. Looked like the nose of a Yak to me.



Please see my reply to AMCKen
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 18, 2009)

Capt. Vick said:


> a Maurane Saulnier MS-406 with a russian engine. Necessary Finnish improvisation perhaps?



Yes indeed Captain see my reply to AMCKen
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 19, 2009)

and this huge fellow who is he? (The pic is somewhat photoshopped but couldn't find a better one)
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Nov 19, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> and this huge fellow who is he? (The pic is somewhat photoshopped but couldn't find a better one)
> carson



*Chetverikov TAF*

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 20, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> *Chetverikov TAF*
> 
> Cheers



Yes Marco indeed that's what it is....
Cheers
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 20, 2009)

Someone know this aircraft?:






Thank you!


----------



## Marcogrifo (Nov 20, 2009)

Can you say this is an aircraft? Oh yes, can't you see, it has a fuselage, two wings, an undercarriage and...and...what the hell is "that" thing on the nose!? 
It's a plane or a steamboat?  






Cheers


----------



## verner (Nov 20, 2009)

Lawn Mower


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 21, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Can you say this is an aircraft? Oh yes, can't you see, it has a fuselage, two wings, an undercarriage and...and...what the hell is "that" thing on the nose!?
> It's a plane or a steamboat?
> 
> 
> ...



B..... hell Marco where do you get your pics from? Such a thing must come only from the States!
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 21, 2009)

Storch said:


> Someone know this aircraft?:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can you giveme a clue?
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 21, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Can you giveme a clue?
> carson



Yes of course: this .... .... aircraft is British you will have guessed  ! Only one built in 1921 and motorized with a V-12 Liberty!


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 21, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Can you say this is an aircraft? Oh yes, can't you see, it has a fuselage, two wings, an undercarriage and...and...what the hell is "that" thing on the nose!?
> It's a plane or a steamboat?
> 
> 
> ...


Schroeder Cyclogyro.
More here:
The Cyclogyros


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 21, 2009)

Storch said:


> Yes of course: this .... .... aircraft is British you will have guessed  ! Only one built in 1921 and motorized with a V-12 Liberty!



Thanks for the clues Storch but unfortunatelyI couldn't retrieve it yet...maybe a lesser known Airco (De Havilland) or Martinsyde project?
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 21, 2009)

I had also thought has Martinsyde but I found nothing ! I continue to search!


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 21, 2009)

Storch said:


> Someone know this aircraft?:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I found him. Handley Page H.P. 20.
Handley Page H.P.20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Storch (Nov 21, 2009)

Very good !! thank you Tzaw1!


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 22, 2009)

Here's one more (easy one) to ponder on.....
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 22, 2009)

and since I like to stir up yourSunday what about this floatplane over an idyllic lake....
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 22, 2009)

and since today weather is fine and I'm in a good mood another easy one....8)
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 22, 2009)

and now one more not so easy and that's all for the day
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 22, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> and since I like to stir up yourSunday what about this floatplane over an idyllic lake....
> carson



Rogozarski SIM-XII- H?


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 22, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Here's one more (easy one) to ponder on.....
> carson


Yes. Both Soviets are easy


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 22, 2009)

Storch said:


> Rogozarski SIM-XII- H?



Yes Storch that's correct
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 22, 2009)

and to close the day one more rather obscure (for me at least) which is....?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 24, 2009)

Is everybody asleep?
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 24, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Is everybody asleep?
> carson



No but your aircraft is not easy! Italian?


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 25, 2009)

Storch said:


> No but your aircraft is not easy! Italian?



Not italian but I'll give you an important clue: it originates from a small country in north-central Europe...
carson

May I remind you that following entries are still to be cleared:
#4047 (Tzaw said it is easy but didn't give a name)
#4049 (same as above)
#4050


----------



## Storch (Nov 25, 2009)

Latvia? Estonia?


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 25, 2009)

Storch said:


> Latvia? Estonia?



Not that far north...let's say just between Holland and France
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 25, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> #4047 (Tzaw said it is easy but didn't give a name)
> #4049 (same as above)


Beriyev KOR-1
Polikarpov I-185 M-71


----------



## Tzaw1 (Nov 25, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> and to close the day one more rather obscure (for me at least) which is....?
> carson


Renard Epervier - fighter


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 26, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Renard Epervier - fighter



Yes TW correct on both threads #4060 and 4061.
It was indeed a belgian Renard Epervier
Cheers
carson

now only #4050 remains to be solved


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 26, 2009)

I have recently found on the net following picture tagged as *Kocherigin BS1*.
I have been googling but have been unable to find an aircraft with such a denomination unless of course the two initials stand for "Bronirivannij Shturmovik" corresponding to the Kocherigin L*BS[Bh.
However the Kocherigin LBSH holds no resemblance to the supposed Kocherigin BS1.
Now to recap what might be the name of this mysterious aircraft?
Your help is more than appreciated
carson




*


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 26, 2009)

It looks like the Kocherigin BSh-1, which was based on the Vultee V-11

http://ram-home.com/ram-old/vultee-v-11.html


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 26, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> It looks like the Kocherigin BSh-1, which was based on the Vultee V-11
> 
> Vultee V-11GB attack-bomber aircraft



Thanks very much VB well done that's exactly what I required
cheers
carson


----------



## jkeskir (Nov 27, 2009)

#4050 must be I.V.L. C.VI 24


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 27, 2009)

jkeskir said:


> #4050 must be I.V.L. C.VI 24



Congratulations Jkeskir it wasn't easy! It is indeed the Ilmailu Vomien Lentokonehdas IVL C/24 the first (unsuccessful) aircraft completely built in Finland.
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 27, 2009)

Nicely done Jkeskir!

New one:


----------



## Storch (Nov 27, 2009)

Hello!

Helwan HA-300 ?


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 27, 2009)

Nicely done Storch. Designed by the German aircraft engineer Willy Messerschmitt himself.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Nov 27, 2009)

Few hints in case nobody guess this:
1st word, it's almost time for this...
2nd word, usually this is more roundish...


Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 27, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Few hints in case nobody guess this:
> 1st word, it's almost time for this...
> 2nd word, usually this is more roundish...
> 
> ...



Hi Marco I've seen this recently but can't remember where. I remember however that this was one of the first aircrafts with full cantilever wings which didn't work out because they kept breaking up!
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 27, 2009)

It is the Christmas Bullet!


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 27, 2009)

It really looks like a toy more then anything.


----------



## Storch (Nov 27, 2009)

I suggest playing now if you want to change with a very interesting video!

There are known and the others much less so that why this video is interesting:


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BNbWcXNc58_ For help and reduce the number of planes I give easyer:

N°1: 0',04" Bell airacuda
N°2: 0',14" North Amercian Tf-86
N3: 0, 18 YC-125 Raider
N4: 0,24 Piper Tripacer
*N5: 0,30 ?
N6: 0,36 ?*
N7: 0,42 Bell X-22
*N8: 0,47 ?
N9: 0, 53 ?
N10: 0,59 ?*
N11: 1,05 Curtiss XP-55 Ascender
*N12: 1,10 ?*
N13: 1,16 Fairey Gannet
*N14: 1,22 ?*
N15: 1, 28 Vought Flying Pancake
*N16: 1,34 ?
N17: 1,40 ?*
N18: 1, 46 B-17 special for Pratt Withney test bed
N19: 1,50 Myasishchev VM-T Atlant
*N20: 1, 56 ?
N21: 2,02 ?*
N22: 2,08 SNCASE Grognard
N23: 2, 13 Bristol 130 Bombay
*N24: 2,20 ?*
N25: 2,25 Beriev B-10
*N26: 2, 30 ?*
N27: 2, 37 McDonnell XF-85 Goblin
N28: 2,43 Dornier 31
N29: 2,48 Yak 23
*N30; 2,54 ?*
N31: 3,00 Berive Bartini
N32: 3, 05 Republic XF-91 Thundercepter
N33: 3,11 Saunders-Roe SR.A/1
*N34: 3, 17 ?*
N35: 3,22 PZL M-15 Belphegor
*N36: 3,28 ?*
N37: 3, 34 Mil Mi-12
N38: 3, 39 Vought F8U-3 
*N39: 3,45 ?*
N40: 3,52 Beriev Be-42
N41: 3, 57 Beriev Be-103
N42: 4,03 Bumble Bee (smalest plane of the world and yes it fly!)
*N43: 4, 08 ? (Maybe the most difficult of the video)
N44: 4,15 ?*

Good luck! Cheers


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 27, 2009)

2nd to the last one looks like some version of the Globemaster, perhaps an eary version. Great video!


----------



## AMCKen (Nov 27, 2009)

Storch said:


> I suggest playing now if you want to change with a very interesting video!
> 
> There are known and the others much less so that why this video is interesting:
> 
> ...




Click on youtube 'more info' for more info. : )


----------



## Storch (Nov 27, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Click on youtube 'more info' for more info. : )




Oh !!! I hadn't seen this litle detail...x !

Ok so there is all solutions! Snif... it's not funny!

But there is still some planes didn't find: N8, N10, N14, N20, N26, N34, !


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 27, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Click on youtube 'more info' for more info. : )



Sure, do it the easy way! 

Thanks for posting that, I've never noticed it before.


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 28, 2009)

Storch said:


> I suggest playing now if you want to change with a very interesting video!
> 
> There are known and the others much less so that why this video is interesting:
> 
> ...




Very interesting site Storch. Unfortunately I have no time now to go thru the whole footage but in the meantime I'll solve for you the mystery of following aircrafts:
- n.5 = Model III N100 D Aerocar
- n.6 = Lockheed XFV1
- n.8 = RFB vehicle
- n.9 = Republic XF84H
- n.12 = Bell XV3
- n.14 = Scaled Composites ATTT
- n.17 = Curtiss AT9
- n.21 = Northrop Tacit Blue
- n.24 = General Aircraft GAL/38
- n.26 = DOAK 16/VZ-4DA
- n.34 = Stearman Hammond Y1S
- n.44 = Boeing C97 Stratofreighter
In the afternoon I might have some more time and identify more aircrafts
Cheers
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 28, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Very interesting site Storch. Unfortunately I have no time now to go thru the whole footage but in the meantime I'll solve for you the mystery of following aircrafts:
> - n.5 = Model III N100 D Aerocar
> - n.6 = Lockheed XFV1
> - n.8 = RFB vehicle
> ...



Well done Carson! Now there is just N10 and N20 and all aircrafts will have been identified!


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 28, 2009)

Storch said:


> Well done Carson! Now there is just N10 and N20 and all aircrafts will have been identified!



I thin you still miss #36 and #43.
For the 36 I still have to check and for the 43 I think it is a profile view of the Global Flyer
carson


----------



## Storch (Nov 28, 2009)

Yes you're right! In fact the N°36 is the Bellanca Aircruiser! For n43 it is more difficult! I don't know this aircraft!

But the most difficult rest N10 and N20!


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 28, 2009)

Storch said:


> Yes you're right! In fact the N°36 is the Bellanca Aircruiser! For n43 it is more difficult! I don't know this aircraft!
> 
> But the most difficult rest N10 and N20!



If I'm not mistaken you are also missing #30 which is the french bomber *Amiot 143*!
Number 20 is a WIG vehicle (probably the Flarecraft 370) but let me check once more. About the #10 I don't know yet
carson

I found #20 it is a WIG vehicle produced by Rheinflugzeugbau (a company founded by Prof. Lippisch), number is X114 and a few versions were produced.
If you want to know more about wig vehicles see the following site:
www.se-technology.com


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 28, 2009)

n 44 is actually the Consolidated R2Y "Liberator Liner" (Consolidated Model 39) - thought it does resemble the Globmaster.


----------



## Storch (Nov 28, 2009)

Thanks Carson for web site link who's very interesting ! Well done to for the Rheinflugzeugbau X114! 

But it is right that #10 is hard!


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 28, 2009)

Storch said:


> Thanks Carson for web site link who's very interesting ! Well done to for the Rheinflugzeugbau X114!
> 
> But it is right that #10 is hard!



Please note that in my list at post #4080 I've also included #21 which is the *Northrop Tacit Blue*.
Concerning elusive #10 I've seen it many times on several sites but now I canìt locate it...
Cheers
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 28, 2009)

#10 is the Rockwell XFV-12A


----------



## Storch (Nov 28, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> #10 is the Rockwell XFV-12A




Yeahhh thanks Viking!! It looks like Star Wars aircrafts a litle bit!

Now the list is complet! Congratulation to Carson and Viking!


----------



## AMCKen (Nov 28, 2009)

Storch said:


> Yeahhh thanks Viking!! It looks like Star Wars aircrafts a litle bit!
> 
> Now the list is complet! Congratulation to Carson and Viking!



Youtube said Rockwell XFV-12 for #10.

And the se-technology site shows #8 as the RFB X-113.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 29, 2009)

New one:


----------



## verner (Nov 29, 2009)

Looks like Fairey Long-Range Monoplane. Cheers


----------



## Klay (Nov 29, 2009)

Whoops, never mind. Can't get the image to show.


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 29, 2009)

verner said:


> Looks like Fairey Long-Range Monoplane. Cheers



Yes Verner I confirm it is the Fairey long distance range monoplane "Eversharp"
Cheers
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Nov 29, 2009)

Nicely done Verner!


----------



## carson1934 (Nov 29, 2009)

I'm enclosingh a plan because I couldn't find a pic...what might this be?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 2, 2009)

And what's this craft of the middle forties?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 2, 2009)

And this contraption which looks vaguely like an aircraft what is it?
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 2, 2009)

and this one ready for attack?(and that's all for today)
carson


----------



## Capt. Vick (Dec 2, 2009)

I assume the last one ISN'T an early mark Blenhiem right? Whatever it is I see it didn't have handed engines. Must have had some nice pull to fight on take-off.


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 2, 2009)

Capt. Vick said:


> I assume the last one ISN'T an early mark Blenhiem right? Whatever it is I see it didn't have handed engines. Must have had some nice pull to fight on take-off.



My dear Captain,
it is one of the so called Bristol Bisley's (Blenheim Mk.V) operated by a greek crew somewhere in Lybia
carson


----------



## verner (Dec 2, 2009)

Middle forties is a BR.500 Colmar me thinks.


----------



## verner (Dec 3, 2009)

Contraption is a Rocheville Artic Tern.


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 3, 2009)

verner said:


> Middle forties is a BR.500 Colmar me thinks.



Yes Verner it's a Breguet BR/500 Colmar.
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 3, 2009)

verner said:


> Contraption is a Rocheville Artic Tern.



Yes it is the Arctic tern what a weird aircraft no wonder she crashed! Thanks for sending a pic of this A/c in flight!
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Dec 3, 2009)

verner said:


> Contraption is a Rocheville Artic Tern.



It's the platypus of the aviation world!


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 4, 2009)

Good afternoon gentlemen,
this is my today's offer, may I have the name of this a/c and the country corresponding to the insignia on her vertical fin?
Cheers
carson


----------



## Klay (Dec 4, 2009)

Chilean N3N (Naval Aircraft Factory)


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 5, 2009)

Klay said:


> Chilean N3N (Naval Aircraft Factory)



Hi Klay,
Welcome to the forum. Spot on! NAF N3N from Chile....
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 5, 2009)

And since the accent is on older planes what about identifying this early floatplane?
Good luck
Carson




(sorry for image duplication)


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 5, 2009)

I'm sure the identification of this one is going to prove very...relaxing....
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 5, 2009)

and this one which looks like a chopper and it isn't on top no engines aboard....and this is the last for today....
carson


----------



## vikingBerserker (Dec 5, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> and this one which looks like a chopper and it isn't on top no engines aboard....and this is the last for today....
> carson



Focke Achgelis Fa-330 Bachstelze


----------



## Klay (Dec 5, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> I'm sure the identification of this one is going to prove very...relaxing....
> carson



Blohm Voss Ha.137


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 5, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Focke Achgelis Fa-330 Bachstelze



Yeah, it's the Bachstelze all right.....and what about my posts #4096 and 4110?
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 5, 2009)

Klay said:


> Blohm Voss Ha.137



Yes it is the Blohm&Voss HA.137 however it should be pointed out that the pictured type is V/5 (with in line engine Junkers Jumo 210A)
Cheers
carson


----------



## Klay (Dec 5, 2009)

No luck on the old flying boat.


----------



## Klay (Dec 5, 2009)

http://klay.smugmug.com/Other/Klayspics/2886003_xbp6J#732485024_VavqN-A-LB

Here is an aircraft for consideration. I can't get pictures to embed properly...can someone help me with this?


----------



## AMCKen (Dec 5, 2009)

Klay said:


> Klayspics - Klay's Photos
> 
> Here is an aircraft for consideration. I can't get pictures to embed properly...can someone help me with this?



Sure looks familiar - closest I can come at the moment is the R-2800 version of the Brewster A-32.


----------



## Klay (Dec 5, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Sure looks familiar - closest I can come at the moment is the R-2800 version of the Brewster A-32.



That's the one.


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 6, 2009)

Clearing old entry:
#4096 = it's a hungarian aircraft Feigl&Rotter Feiro "Daru" (heron) of the middle twenties (as far as I know no pics exist on the web just a 3 view).
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 6, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Sure looks familiar - closest I can come at the moment is the R-2800 version of the Brewster A-32.



Yes AMCKen I have same ID: Brewster XA32A of 1943 (only 2 prototypes built)
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 6, 2009)

Klay said:


> No luck on the old flying boat.



Concerning old flying-boat: it is a "Macchi L2 Italia".
If you contact following site (which is only in polish) you'll see a most complete pic collection of WWI aircrafts as well as of earlier birdies: most interesting site!
Samoloty na A
Cheers
carson


----------



## Klay (Dec 6, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Concerning old flying-boat: it is a "Macchi L2 Italia".
> If you contact following site (which is only in polish) you'll see a most complete pic collection of WWI aircrafts as well as of earlier birdies: most interesting site!
> Samoloty na A
> Cheers
> carson



Thank you, I suspected that it was an Italian flying boat and was even perusing Maachi models, but was unable to locate it.


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 6, 2009)

From old to new...what about an ID on this push-pull? (full name please)
carson


----------



## Klay (Dec 6, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> From old to new...what about an ID on this push-pull? (full name please)
> carson



Starcraft SK-700


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 6, 2009)

Klay said:


> Starcraft SK-700



Very good Klay but you only get half a dime because name was on fuselage.
When are you starting to offer some birdies?
carson


----------



## Klay (Dec 6, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Very good Klay but you only get half a dime because name was on fuselage.
> When are you starting to offer some birdies?
> carson




I just discovered this forum so I don't know if I will be repeating aircraft. Also, I don't yet know how to embed pictures here. But here's one:


Klayspics - Klay's Photos


----------



## AMCKen (Dec 7, 2009)

Is this one off your push-pull list that we never saw the final copy of? : )


----------



## Klay (Dec 7, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Is this one off your push-pull list that we never saw the final copy of? : )



What is a push-pull list?


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 7, 2009)

Klay said:


> I just discovered this forum so I don't know if I will be repeating aircraft. Also, I don't yet know how to embed pictures here. But here's one:
> 
> 
> Klayspics - Klay's Photos



Hi Klay
your a/c is a *ZMAJ R-1* a yougoslav prototype of 1940
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 7, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> Is this one off your push-pull list that we never saw the final copy of? : )



You are right to complain Ken because I never finished the push-pull list anyway I formally promise that I will do it within this week just be on the look out for the thread "push-pull aircrafts" (in the meantime I found a couple more)
Cheers
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 7, 2009)

Hi Ken,
if you go to my thread "aircrafts in push-pull configuration" you will finally find an up to date listing of such aircrafts including 19 models.
May I remind you that projects (or paper planes) are not included but only those which actually flew (with a couple of noteworthy exceptions).
I sincerely hope that you will find this small compilation useful naturally not only for yourself but for all members of this forum.
Cheers
carson


----------



## v2 (Dec 7, 2009)

I found something for you guys...


----------



## AMCKen (Dec 7, 2009)

Klay said:


> What is a push-pull list?



...started on this thread...

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/ai...ircrafts-push-pull-configuration-18906-3.html


----------



## Klay (Dec 7, 2009)

v2 said:


> I found something for you guys...




That's a Baade 152.


----------



## Klay (Dec 7, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Hi Klay
> your a/c is a *ZMAJ R-1* a yougoslav prototype of 1940
> carson



That's the plane.


----------



## Klay (Dec 7, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> ...started on this thread...
> 
> http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/ai...ircrafts-push-pull-configuration-18906-3.html



Thanks.


----------



## v2 (Dec 7, 2009)

Klay said:


> That's a Baade 152.


----------



## AMCKen (Dec 8, 2009)

v2 said:


>



New one to me. : )

Baade 152 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 8, 2009)

AMCKen said:


> New one to me. : )
> 
> Baade 152 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Yes Ken the Baade was the only jet airliner produced by the former german democratic republic (an ambitious project) which ended up in disaster (both the aircraft and the republic)...
carson


----------



## Capt. Vick (Dec 8, 2009)

I read in Air Space Magazine many moons ago that the production supervisor for the Baade 152 was a real stickler. He would run cotton balls down a rivet line to see if any fibers were snagged. They also made mention of a design defect in the fuel system that caused it to crash on the way to a flight display (if I remember correctly).


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 10, 2009)

This was once a rather important aerobatics biplane. What is it?
carson


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Dec 10, 2009)

Hello Carson,
it seems an slovak Avia B.122


----------



## Tzaw1 (Dec 10, 2009)

Ba.122 
From Training Flight in Piešťany.


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 11, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hello Carson,
> it seems an slovak Avia B.122



Congratulations Emilio less than two hours to solve the enigma! Yes of course it is an Avia BA122 of the slovak air force
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 11, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Ba.122
> From Training Flight in Piešťany.



Yes spot on Tzaw you even guessed the locality!
carson


----------



## de Salier (Dec 11, 2009)

Nice Lines...


----------



## Tzaw1 (Dec 11, 2009)

First Ilyushin Il-20
??????? ??-20

Second Il-20 was a reconnaissance version of Il-18.
??????? ??-20



What about this plane?


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 11, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> First Ilyushin Il-20
> ??????? ??-20
> 
> Second Il-20 was a reconnaissance version of Il-18.
> ...



Maybe a french prototype?
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Dec 11, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Maybe a french prototype?
> carson


No


----------



## vikingBerserker (Dec 11, 2009)

Looks Russian


----------



## Tzaw1 (Dec 12, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Looks Russian


No.
A small clue... It is a full-scale mock-up. Really for political reasons it never flew.


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Dec 12, 2009)

Hi Tzaw,

I think it´s a rare polish prototype: the *TS-16 Grot*


----------



## Tzaw1 (Dec 12, 2009)

Very good Emilio:
SAMOLOTY.PL - Wszystko o lataniu, Bilety lotnicze - TS-16 Grot


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 12, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Very good Emilio:
> SAMOLOTY.PL - Wszystko o lataniu, Bilety lotnicze - TS-16 Grot



Very interesting Tzaw I didn't know that mock-up at all.
Now speaking about polish prototypes can you tell me whether the "Bielik" was tested or actually flew?
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Dec 12, 2009)

Yes. In 2003.
Bielik


----------



## de Salier (Dec 12, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> First Ilyushin Il-20
> ??????? ??-20
> 
> Second Il-20 was a reconnaissance version of Il-18.
> ...



That is Correct


----------



## vikingBerserker (Dec 12, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> Very good Emilio:
> SAMOLOTY.PL - Wszystko o lataniu, Bilety lotnicze - TS-16 Grot



WOW, never heard of it but that is one good looking aircraft. Why was it never built?


----------



## Tzaw1 (Dec 12, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> WOW, never heard of it but that is one good looking aircraft. Why was it never built?


It spoke himself that from political reasons. Soviets decided that within of COMECON Poland to specialize in the production of agricultural planes and gliders.
But reasons are surely more complicated. Also economic. Individually Poland was not in standing to work out from the scratch the fuselage, engines, avionics etc.
But according to remembrances of the constructor, was decisive the Soviet factor.


----------



## verner (Dec 14, 2009)

How about this lil goober?


----------



## Klay (Dec 15, 2009)

Saab 202


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 15, 2009)

Speaking of tandem wings what about this?
carson1934


----------



## vikingBerserker (Dec 15, 2009)

Holy fricken gees!


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Dec 16, 2009)

Hello Carson,

a very interesting early design: the *Albessard Tandem monoplane highwing*


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 16, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hello Carson,
> 
> a very interesting early design: the *Albessard Tandem monoplane highwing*



Yes Emilio that's what it is and before I forget (as the forgetful old man I am) my best wishes for the forthcoming festivities.
Buon Natale e Buon Anno a te e famiglia!
carson1934


----------



## gumbyk (Dec 16, 2009)

Here's something completely different.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Dec 16, 2009)

*Kalinin K-12 Zhar Ptitsa*






Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 16, 2009)

gumbyk said:


> Here's something completely different.



Kalinin K-12 of 1936
carson

Sorry Marco I didn't notice you posted ten minutes before me!


----------



## gumbyk (Dec 16, 2009)

Correct.
the designer must have really annoyed the wrong person. He was arrested and his whole design office was shut down not long after the prototype flew.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Dec 16, 2009)

Must have been the paint job


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 17, 2009)

gumbyk said:


> Correct.
> the designer must have really annoyed the wrong person. He was arrested and his whole design office was shut down not long after the prototype flew.



This was rather common practice (talking of being arrested)....see what happened to that genius of Bartini
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (Dec 17, 2009)

Another bizarre aircraft to guess:






Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 18, 2009)

Marcogrifo said:


> Another bizarre aircraft to guess:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It'sreally bizarre but I've no idea of what it is. I have a mind though it may have been concocted in the States
carson1934


----------



## Tzaw1 (Dec 18, 2009)

We cannot identify this plane. Can somebody ?
The photograph is from the enough old book. Signed that it is the plane shot down in September 1939 over the Polish sea-coast. But this is most clearly the misinformation.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Dec 18, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> It'sreally bizarre but I've no idea of what it is. I have a mind though it may have been concocted in the States
> carson1934



Maybe the pilot was really big


----------



## AMCKen (Dec 18, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> Maybe the pilot was really big



Variable dihedral?
Perhaps to test which was the optimum angle.


----------



## AMCKen (Dec 18, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> We cannot identify this plane. Can somebody ?
> The photograph is from the enough old book. Signed that it is the plane shot down in September 1939 over the Polish sea-coast. But this is most clearly the misinformation.



First thought was He-111, but the rear fuselage doesn't seem quite right. He-70? Not sure about that either.


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 19, 2009)

While we are pondering on Marco's mystery plane, what about guessing this one?:
carson1934


----------



## Klay (Dec 19, 2009)

Bujon-Croses B-EC 7


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 19, 2009)

Klay said:


> Bujon-Croses B-EC 7



Yes Klay very good. It is the unusual Bujon-Croses B-EC7 "Tout terrain". As said very unusual like all tandem wings of Croses a follower of Mignet
carson1934


----------



## Klay (Dec 19, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> We cannot identify this plane. Can somebody ?
> The photograph is from the enough old book. Signed that it is the plane shot down in September 1939 over the Polish sea-coast. But this is most clearly the misinformation.



I was thinking that this may be a Heinkel 119, but the 119 has a slightly cranked wing. I'm not seeing that in the picture. Hmmm.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/he119-3.jpg


----------



## vikingBerserker (Dec 19, 2009)

The "beach" looks like a ramp used for sea planes. Right below the wing under the nose almost looks like a float or a spatted wheel. In the middle of the machine on the top looks like a MG mount. The fuselage looks square based on the cross. What really puzzles me is the tail-fin. Is it a duel tail-fin or has the tail-plane snapped upwards. It looks like it has the old 3 color camo scheme.


----------



## airtaxi2006 (Dec 19, 2009)

looks like the french version of a Pietenpol 
Sean I have one under construction with a few modifications ford engine and 20% bigger for my size


----------



## Tzaw1 (Dec 19, 2009)

vikingBerserker said:


> The "beach" looks like a ramp used for sea planes. Right below the wing under the nose almost looks like a float or a spatted wheel. In the middle of the machine on the top looks like a MG mount. The fuselage looks square based on the cross. What really puzzles me is the tail-fin. Is it a duel tail-fin or has the tail-plane snapped upwards. It looks like it has the old 3 color camo scheme.


After the small brainstorm we suppose that this is BV 138.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Dec 19, 2009)

It's not that and I can't find any sea plane that matches the tail fin. I beginning to wonder if the pic is authentic. The Cross and Swastika sure are brighter then the rest of the photo. It's also odd that all the markings can be clearly seen except for the 2 letters or numbers after the cross. I'm stumped.


----------



## Klay (Dec 19, 2009)

Tzaw1 said:


> After the small brainstorm we suppose that this is BV 138.




It could indeed be a fragment of a twin-boom aircraft such as a BV138.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Dec 19, 2009)

The only thing that does not match is the tail-fin, but everything else looks like it could be (it never occurred to me that it could just be a piece of the aircraft). However, if this pic was taken during Sept 39, only a few prototypes of the aircraft were flying at the time. Production deliveries of the BV 138 did not occur until Jan 40 _Combat Aircraft of WWII_. They were used in the Invasion of Norway.


----------



## verner (Dec 20, 2009)

Rudder is wrong for a BV-138, even a piece. I think the rudder is a single and is just leaning against whats left of the tail.


----------



## Waynos (Dec 20, 2009)

the rudder looks more Bf 110, but nothing else does. Maybe the rudder is from a different wreck?


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 20, 2009)

And what about a propaganda picture?
If my historic recollections are still bright Germany invaded Poland September 1st 1939 and at that time the bulk of the Luftwaffe attacking force was composed of Ju-87, He-111 and Me-109 which are all commonly seen.
The pictured aircraft seems to be very different from any of the a.m. types!
carson1934


----------



## Marcogrifo (Dec 20, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> While we are pondering on Marco's mystery plane, what about guessing this one?:
> carson1934


Stop pondering, please 

#4173 was the *Waldo Waterman's experimental airplane*:



> ...In the past, several attempts have been made by airplane designers to build airplanes with reduced response to turbulence. All of these attempts were characterized by an intuitive approach with no attempt at analysis prior to flight tests, and all were notably unsuccessful.
> 
> One of these airplanes (figure 13.1) was designed by Waldo Waterman. It had wings attached to the fuselage with skewed hinges and restrained by pneumatic struts that acted as springs. The effect of the skewed hinge was to reduce the angle of attack of the wing panels when they deflected upward, and vice versa. The response to gusts was not noticeably reduced from that of the airplane with the wings locked, probably because the dynamic response of the system was not suitable. Also, the degree of flexibility of the wings was limited because deflection of the ailerons would deflect the wings to oppose the aileron rolling moment, which resulted in reduced or reversed roll response...



More info here: Gust Alleviation

Cheers


----------



## vikingBerserker (Dec 20, 2009)

THat's an intersting approach. Nice one Marco.


----------



## Klay (Dec 20, 2009)

carson1934 said:


> Speaking of tandem wings what about this?
> carson1934





Albessard twin-monoplane, 1910


Edit: Pardon me, I see now it was already identified.


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 21, 2009)

Klay said:


> Albessard twin-monoplane, 1910
> 
> 
> Edit: Pardon me, I see now it was already identified.



I think this is one more Albessard's tandem wing creation
carson1934


----------



## zenstar1974 (Dec 22, 2009)

Greetings All,
I am looking for a list of RAF WWII aircraft that used the Analog Air Position Indicator for lat/long navigation. Does anyone know where I can find this info?

Thanks.


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 28, 2009)

good afternoon to everybody (or good morning whatever the case nay be)
I hope your Christmas was happy and enjoyable....now I have something to ponder on....this is a racer the problem is that it wasn't fast enough. What is it?
carson


----------



## AMCKen (Dec 28, 2009)

Similar to the Deperdussin racers, but they were fast enough. : )


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Dec 29, 2009)

Hello Carson and Feliz Navidad to all,

the sleek monoplane is the Czech racer *Letov S-8*, powered by a British 480-horsepower Napier Lion engine, but not fast enough to match contemporary racers.


----------



## carson1934 (Dec 29, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hello Carson and Feliz Navidad to all,
> 
> the sleek monoplane is the Czech racer *Letov S-8*, powered by a British 480-horsepower Napier Lion engine, but not fast enough to match contemporary racers.



How can you beat Emilio? that's what it is, a Letov S-8 from Czechoslovakia
carson


----------



## AMCKen (Dec 29, 2009)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hello Carson and Feliz Navidad to all,
> 
> the sleek monoplane is the Czech racer *Letov S-8*, powered by a British 480-horsepower Napier Lion engine, but not fast enough to match contemporary racers.



Right, a Lion. I had noticed the upper exhaust stacks, and now I notice the lowers as well.


----------



## herman1rg (Dec 31, 2009)

Whats this one but also when?


----------



## Waynos (Jan 1, 2010)

Wright Flyer III in 1908?


----------



## herman1rg (Jan 1, 2010)

Waynos said:


> Wright Flyer III in 1908?



Correct, "Orville starts US Army acceptance trials at Fort Myer in Model A 'Military Flyer'"


----------



## Waynos (Jan 1, 2010)

Thank you. I still marvel that a baby born when the Wright Flyer took to the air for the first time would still only be a man of my age (44) when Yeager went supersonic.

Or indeed that Yaegers flight is about 50% closer to the Wright brothersachievement than it is to the present day.

Now, who will be first to say what this is?


----------



## herman1rg (Jan 1, 2010)

It appears to be

The BAE Systems Mantis Unmanned Autonomous System Advanced Concept Technology Demonstrator is a British demonstrator programme for Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle (UCAV) technology


----------



## Waynos (Jan 1, 2010)

Perfect


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jan 2, 2010)

Hi and Happy New Year everybody 

Maybe this is a well known image but I think it's fun: a big mama taking around her two babies hand in hand (better: wing in wing  )






Now, do you know the "exact" designation for the bomber (not the generic type, of course)?

Cheers


----------



## AMCKen (Jan 3, 2010)

To quote wikipedia:

"EB-29A docked wingtip-to-wingtip with two EF-84Bs in Project Tip-Tow", 

part of the FICON project.


----------



## verner (Jan 3, 2010)

Wasn't there a B-36 like this also?


----------



## AMCKen (Jan 3, 2010)

FICON project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

is the whole article at wikipedia. Lots of info there.


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jan 3, 2010)

AMCKen said:


> To quote wikipedia:
> 
> "EB-29A docked wingtip-to-wingtip with two EF-84Bs in Project Tip-Tow",
> 
> part of the FICON project.


Yes, of course 
IMO, that was one of the craziest projects of the cold-war era, no surprise it ended so tragically 

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jan 6, 2010)

Good evening to everybody
I'd like to start the year with a question if you don't mind.I have found on the net a picture of the following aircraft which is allegedly italian and tagged as C.N.A. Delta.
Does anyone have more comprehensive information about this machine? Maybe Marco or Tzaw?
Look forward hearing from you
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jan 7, 2010)

carson1934 said:


> Good evening to everybody
> I'd like to start the year with a question if you don't mind.I have found on the net a picture of the following aircraft which is allegedly italian and tagged as C.N.A. Delta.
> Does anyone have more comprehensive information about this machine? Maybe Marco or Tzaw?
> Look forward hearing from you
> carson


Sorry carson, I don't have anything about this...

Cheers


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jan 7, 2010)

Nil, sorry


----------



## carson1934 (Jan 8, 2010)

While I'm waiting a response on post #4213 you might like to guess the name of this guy (this time I know what it is!):
carson


----------



## Klay (Jan 8, 2010)

ANF les mureaux 180


----------



## carson1934 (Jan 9, 2010)

Klay said:


> ANF les mureaux 180



Bravo Klay that's what it is an ANF180 of 1935 of which only one prototype was built. It was originally made with a single tail then transformed into a twin.
Carson1934


----------



## Klay (Jan 12, 2010)

carson1934 said:


> Good evening to everybody
> I'd like to start the year with a question if you don't mind.I have found on the net a picture of the following aircraft which is allegedly italian and tagged as C.N.A. Delta.
> Does anyone have more comprehensive information about this machine? Maybe Marco or Tzaw?
> Look forward hearing from you
> carson



All I can find is a reference to a Compagnia Nazionale Aeronautica aircraft named "ETA." The company was later sold to Caproni. CNA was an engine manufacturer which also produced a few airplanes.


CNA


----------



## carson1934 (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi Klay
thanks very much for your interest to my query.
So we have now established three things.
- CNA means Compagnia Nazionale Aeronautica, it existed and was founded in 1920,
- they produced engines *and* aircrafts therefore it is more than plausible that one aircraft may have been called "Delta" (a previous one was called "ETA"...do you see the analogy?)
- that it must have been built between 1920 and 1934 which is the date when CNA was sold to Caproni

Well this is a lot more of what I started with! 
Cheers
carson


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jan 12, 2010)

carson1934 said:


> Well this is a lot more of what I started with!
> Cheers
> carson


Hi carson, 
please don't teel me you really didn't search about CNA on Wikipedia... 

Anyway I did it, here are some link of info related to your quest:

Compagnia Nazionale Aeronautica - Wikipedia

Museo G. Caproni - aeronautica, scienza e innovazione

Avia fl3

Something about Ing. Gianini:
Wapedia - Wiki: CNA Rondine

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jan 13, 2010)

Marcogrifo said:


> Hi carson,
> please don't teel me you really didn't search about CNA on Wikipedia...
> 
> Anyway I did it, here are some link of info related to your quest:
> ...



Thanks Marco
Yes I found out all right about CNA (Compagnia Nazionale Aeronautica) but I found very little on the aircrafts they produced and unfortunately no trace at all of a trimotor CNA "Delta".

Cheers and thanks again for your interest
carson


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jan 13, 2010)

Maybe in this book "COMPAGNIA NAZIONALE AERONAUTICA C.N.A. - 1919-1943"
Biblioteca
La biblioteca-archivio degli Aeronautici del Malignani :: GLI AERONAUTICI DEL MALIGNANI :: L'Associazione


----------



## Marcogrifo (Jan 14, 2010)

Tzaw1 said:


> Maybe in this book "COMPAGNIA NAZIONALE AERONAUTICA C.N.A. - 1919-1943"
> Biblioteca
> La biblioteca-archivio degli Aeronautici del Malignani :: GLI AERONAUTICI DEL MALIGNANI :: L'Associazione


Very interesting, thank you Tzaw 

Cheers


----------



## carson1934 (Jan 15, 2010)

Tzaw1 said:


> Maybe in this book "COMPAGNIA NAZIONALE AERONAUTICA C.N.A. - 1919-1943"
> Biblioteca
> La biblioteca-archivio degli Aeronautici del Malignani :: GLI AERONAUTICI DEL MALIGNANI :: L'Associazione



Thanks very much Tzaw.
I'm contacting the Malignani to find out if they are willing to lend me their volume C-117 Compagnia Nazionale Aeronautica as I don't want to undertake a 800 km trip (Arezzo -Udine - Arezzo) for nothing.
Again my sincere thanks for your interest in the matter
carson1934


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jan 21, 2010)

New challenge for all of you:


----------



## herman1rg (Jan 21, 2010)

Try this one guys


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jan 21, 2010)

Hello Herman,
I think she is a *Comper Mouse*


----------



## carson1934 (Jan 21, 2010)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> New challenge for all of you:



Good morning Emilio
I can't remember offhand the name of this aircraft.
It is a french production studied for problems of turbulent air and one aircraft is housed in the Musée de l'Air near Paris.
I remember it has a rather german name starting if I'm not mistaken with Hirsch....but that's all I can remember till now
Cheers
carson1934

Now I remember Hirsch H100


----------



## herman1rg (Jan 21, 2010)

Emilio Lafuente said:


> Hello Herman,
> I think she is a *Comper Mouse*



LOL well spotted


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jan 21, 2010)

carson1934 said:


> Now I remember Hirsch H100



In Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace, Le Bourget, Paris.


----------



## AMCKen (Jan 22, 2010)

Tzaw1 said:


> In Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace, Le Bourget, Paris.



See earlier this forum, page 268, message 4008. : )


----------



## Emilio Lafuente (Jan 22, 2010)

Oooooops, sorry, I didn´t see the previous post...


----------



## AMCKen (Jan 22, 2010)

'Tis a sleek looking craft though. Really needs spinners on the props and perhaps smaller cooling intakes. : )


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jan 24, 2010)

Ok, new one:


----------



## verner (Jan 24, 2010)

Douglas B-7. Cheerios.


----------



## carson1934 (Jan 24, 2010)

During my googling saunterings I came across this twin-hull french floatplane labelled as L.A.F. torpilleur.
Is there somebody who can cast additional light on this mysterious object?
carson1934
PS I found no trace of a LAF company on Aviafrance...


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jan 24, 2010)

verner said:


> Douglas B-7. Cheerios.



Well, that lasted slightly over 30 minutes 

Nicely done.


----------



## carson1934 (Jan 30, 2010)

Everybody sleeps here? no challenges no takers what's the problem?
carson1934


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jan 30, 2010)

carson1934 said:


> what's the problem?


No idea


----------



## verner (Jan 30, 2010)

Not a clue.


----------



## vikingBerserker (Jan 31, 2010)

I found where the company was refered to in a book, but no idea on the aircraft itself.


----------



## carson1934 (Jan 31, 2010)

*To whom it may interest*

If you go to my a.m. thread I have added one more item to the list with attached description (page 3 #40).
Cheers
carson1934


----------



## Tzaw1 (Feb 3, 2010)

carson1934 said:


> Everybody sleeps here? no challenges no takers what's the problem?
> carson1934


I found only this:
The Ongoing Mystery Aircraft Thread Part Deux. - Page 145 - SOH - Combat Flight Center Forums
Post #2892 and answer in post #2896


----------



## carson1934 (Feb 3, 2010)

Tzaw1 said:


> I found only this:
> The Ongoing Mystery Aircraft Thread Part Deux. - Page 145 - SOH - Combat Flight Center Forums
> Post #2892 and answer in post #2896



Thanks very much Tzaw as always you're very helpful
carson


----------



## carson1934 (Feb 13, 2010)

Is there someone who could kindly help me in identifying following aircraft which is a north american product?
Thanks in advance
carson1934




[/IMG]

Some additional information: this aircraft had a vertical 4 cylinder 35HP engine which was turning in the opposite direction as compared to other standard engines of the time...


----------



## AMCKen (Mar 24, 2010)

Everybody must be stumped on this one and afraid to say. : )


----------



## AMCKen (Mar 24, 2010)

Everybody must be stumped on this one and afraid to say. : )


----------



## Hambone (Apr 2, 2010)

Smokey said:


> That's the most beautiful aircraft I've ever seen
> Bugatti should use it to advertise the launch of the Veyron
> 
> 
> ...



What the heck is that plane called? i can't figure it out


----------



## vikingBerserker (Apr 2, 2010)

carson1934 said:


> Is there someone who could kindly help me in identifying following aircraft which is a north american product?
> Thanks in advance
> carson1934
> 
> ...



Sorry, I just saw this. It's the Gonzales No. 1 Biplane

"The "Gonzales No. 1" biplane was built by twins Willy and Arthur Gonzales, with help from their brother Eddy Gonzales, during the period from 1910 to 1912. Constructed primarily of pine and small amounts of spruce, it was built in the backyard of their home at 435-16th Avenue in San Francisco. In true bicycle shop fashion, all of the wing support wires are attached with bicycle spokes and spoke adjusters. The biplane was donated by Bob Gonzales of Concord, California, having been in his family for 70 years."

More info and the engine here: Travis Air Museum


----------



## hawkeye2an (Apr 3, 2010)

Hambone said:


> What the heck is that plane called? i can't figure it out



Looks like something a Comic Book Superhero would fly in the 50s.

Nice looking bird especially for the time period.


----------



## AMCKen (Apr 5, 2010)

Hambone said:


> What the heck is that plane called? i can't figure it out



Bugatti Aircraft Association - 100P Airplane


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 6, 2010)

vikingBerserker said:


> Sorry, I just saw this. It's the Gonzales No. 1 Biplane
> 
> "The "Gonzales No. 1" biplane was built by twins Willy and Arthur Gonzales, with help from their brother Eddy Gonzales, during the period from 1910 to 1912. Constructed primarily of pine and small amounts of spruce, it was built in the backyard of their home at 435-16th Avenue in San Francisco. In true bicycle shop fashion, all of the wing support wires are attached with bicycle spokes and spoke adjusters. The biplane was donated by Bob Gonzales of Concord, California, having been in his family for 70 years."
> 
> More info and the engine here: Travis Air Museum



Thanks very very much Viking...I had almost lost all hopes
Carson1934


----------



## Njaco (Apr 14, 2010)

Anybody recognize this one? Its not what it seems.


----------



## Capt. Vick (Apr 14, 2010)

Is not that the Mitsubishi J8M?

I heard it was recalled over sticking throttle.


----------



## Njaco (Apr 15, 2010)

Capt. Vick said:


> Is not that the Mitsubishi J8M?
> 
> I heard it was recalled over sticking throttle.



Nope, it is not the J8M.


----------



## Capt. Vick (Apr 15, 2010)

Then it must be the Yokosuka MXY-8


----------



## Njaco (Apr 15, 2010)

Correct!!!


----------



## BombTaxi (Apr 17, 2010)

Am I right in thinking that is basically an Me-163 with a hinomaru painted on the side? Didn't the Germans also send Japan parts/drawings for the 262 at some point as well?


----------



## vikingBerserker (Apr 17, 2010)

Capt. Vick said:


> Is not that the Mitsubishi J8M?
> 
> I heard it was recalled over sticking throttle.



LMAO, NICE!


----------



## Njaco (Apr 17, 2010)

The MXY-8 was a glider used to train pilots to fly the J8M.


----------



## kration (Apr 22, 2010)

My apologies for posting this. It's not WWII and this is not an excuse to post the obvious, but the UK services have published a 'Village Ladies' type calendar. But I'm genuinely puzzled as to what aircraft is shown here - engine nacelles and a wing gun? Did RAF Canberra's have wing guns? Gloster Meteor? I don't know...


----------



## verner (Apr 22, 2010)

Gloster Moonbeam?


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 23, 2010)

Oh, there's an aircraft under the ladies. Didn't see it at first.  It's a Gloster Meteor, the ailerons give it away to me. But what is this black pipe sticking out of the leading edge? Maybe kind of a pitot or an aerial?

Krabat


----------



## Waynos (Apr 23, 2010)

Krabat42 said:


> Oh, there's an aircraft under the ladies. Didn't see it at first.  It's a Gloster Meteor, the ailerons give it away to me. But what is this black pipe sticking out of the leading edge? Maybe kind of a pitot or an aerial?
> 
> Krabat



Setting aside the possibility of the Meteor getting excited at the attention, that would be the wing mounted cannon. From which I would say its an NF Meteor.


----------



## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 23, 2010)

Aircraft has been identified, pic has been removed.


----------



## kration (Apr 23, 2010)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Aircraft has been identified, pic has been removed.



Very succinct summary!

But as has been mentioned, the pic was of a nightfighter Meteor probably an Armstrong Whitworth Meteor NF 11. It's one of the wonderful things about this forum that the feedback identified it - I was never aware that any version of the Meteor had wing-guns until now!

Mods - thanks for your understanding, it was a genuine query!


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 26, 2010)

> I was never aware that any version of the Meteor had wing-guns until now!



The night fighter versions had, but from what I knew, they had four, two in each wing. I could make out only one in the pic.

Oh, looks like it isn't there anymore. Strange... Could have been fitting to the "What we fight for"-category. 

Krabat

EDIT: I stand corrected. Saw the other barrel below and slightly to the left. Anyway: "Pharisäer!"


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 26, 2010)

Krabat42 said:


> Oh, there's an aircraft under the ladies. Didn't see it at first.  It's a Gloster Meteor, the ailerons give it away to me. But what is this black pipe sticking out of the leading edge? Maybe kind of a pitot or an aerial?
> 
> Krabat



Hi Krabat
welcome back how's the kid?
May I take advantage of your return and ask you whether you heard about the *Showa Sho98 Type 98?
I just found a pic somewhere on the net but there doesn't seem to be much information about it otherwise*
Any information or pic or design or plan is appreciated
Cheers
Carson1934


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 27, 2010)

Hi carson,

I'm not "back", I'm afraid, I just took a few minutes at work to visit the thread. The kid is fine, though very straining at the moment. He was in the hospital the whole last week - a violent attack of Rotavirus. And obviously the whole thing must have made him edgy, he wakes up crying six or seven times each night. Hope this will end soon, I'm sure it will.

I will check my books at home about the Showa but to be honest, I didn't know the type before you mentioned it. How about asking Graeme, he usually knows these things much better than I do. And his kids are much older now. 

Krabat


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 27, 2010)

Krabat42 said:


> Hi carson,
> 
> I'm not "back", I'm afraid, I just took a few minutes at work to visit the thread. The kid is fine, though very straining at the moment. He was in the hospital the whole last week - a violent attack of Rotavirus. And obviously the whole thing must have made him edgy, he wakes up crying six or seven times each night. Hope this will end soon, I'm sure it will.
> 
> ...



Thanks anyway Krabat I hope Graeme will eventually look my thread up.
Best wishes for your kid I'm sure he will get better very very soon
Carson1934


----------



## Krabat42 (Apr 28, 2010)

> I hope Graeme will eventually look my thread up.



You may send him a PM, maybe he's busy too. From what I know he is working on a lot of things all the time.

Krabat


----------



## carson1934 (Apr 28, 2010)

Krabat42 said:


> You may send him a PM, maybe he's busy too. From what I know he is working on a lot of things all the time.
> 
> Krabat



Thanks for following up Krabat...
at any rate I'm enclosing a pic of the Showa maybe it's going to ring a bell also on your side...
Carson1934


----------



## Aaron Brooks Wolters (May 2, 2010)

Ok. I realize I don't visit this thread much and when I do a usually stay quiet but I found a craft that might intrigue you guys so here goes. The engine cowl is off a DC-3, the prop spinner is off a Constellation, and the rest of the mods are handcrafted. Oh, and it has a Pratt and Whitney R-1830 twin row radial with a two stage super charger with a luggage compartment just large enough for a golf bag full of clubs just in front of the cockpit.


----------



## vikingBerserker (May 2, 2010)

Very interesting!


----------



## Waynos (May 3, 2010)

Wow! At first glance I even thought it was Sea Fury based until I recognised its true ID. Wicked!


----------



## Aaron Brooks Wolters (May 3, 2010)

And that would be?


----------



## Waynos (May 4, 2010)

Aaron Brooks Wolters said:


> And that would be?



Oops, am I forgetting what this thread is for? 


North American T-6


----------



## A4K (May 4, 2010)

Is this a Vought design? Nose looks like the F-2G Super Corsair's, and aspects of the fues, tail, and undercarriage like a Valiant.


----------



## Aaron Brooks Wolters (May 4, 2010)

Way to go Waynos!!!!!!! Here is a frontal view to better let you see the plane. Like I said it has the 1830 P&W with a two stage supercharger. The spinner is from a Constalation and the engine cowl is from a DC-3 and the airscoop on top of that is hand fabricated.


----------



## Waynos (May 5, 2010)

That is one amazing conversion, all mine were in 1/72!!

In that view it has a resemblance to the Blackburn Firebrand.


----------



## Aaron Brooks Wolters (May 5, 2010)

I asked the gentleman who owns it a few questions and he said that he was shooting for an 18,000 foot cruise ceiling and enough economy to get from his hometown to Oshkosh and back without refueling and he said it should do it with flying colors from what he's seen so far. He has 14 hours on it so far and a few more modifications to do. I was hoping to at least hear it run but it didn't happen.


----------



## Njaco (Jun 2, 2010)

Found this pic on a foreign language site. Greame, what the 'ell is this???? I'm usually good on my LW aircraft but this.......?????


----------



## Waynos (Jun 2, 2010)

I can help. That is a Focke Wulf Fw 58


----------



## Krabat42 (Jun 9, 2010)

Jepp, that's Focke Wulf Weihe (Harrier).


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 12, 2010)

Hello Tzaw long time no hear!
Do you know anything about a polish motor glider called ITS-8W of 1938?
If you have any information would appreciate hearing from you....
Cheers 
Carson1934


----------



## herman1rg (Jun 12, 2010)

carson1934 said:


> Hello Tzaw long time no hear!
> Do you know anything about a polish motor glider called ITS-8W of 1938?
> If you have any information would appreciate hearing from you....
> Cheers
> Carson1934



This is in Polish but might help.

CRACOVIA LEOPOLIS


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 13, 2010)

#4287
Thanks Herman for the prompt reply....although it is in polish I'll try to make the most out of it....
Carson1934


----------



## Tzaw1 (Jun 14, 2010)

carson1934 said:


> Hello Tzaw long time no hear!
> Do you know anything about a polish motor glider called ITS-8W of 1938?
> If you have any information would appreciate hearing from you....
> Cheers
> Carson1934



It was a high-performance modification of training ITS-8.
Engine: Ava 4A-00, flat, 4-cylinder, 25 HP, weight: 37 kg, fuel consumption: 8 l/h, fuel reserve: 30 kg
Remains data in datasheet.
Data and illustriations from A. Glass,_ Polskie konstrukcje lotnicze until 1939_, vol. III.


----------



## carson1934 (Jun 15, 2010)

Thanks very very much Tzaw you're always kind and very professional....
Carson1934


----------



## carson1934 (Aug 21, 2010)

Good morning gentlemen,

Is there someone who could help me out with information and/or pics concerning the [[/B]Mariscraft 185[/B]which was a 1939 aircraft on duty with the air service of the mexican navy? I think this was called also "Minero mexicano" (I don't know why)
Thanks for your help
Carson1934


----------



## tameboy (Aug 21, 2010)

I am not sure if these are even based on real planes, but I would be very interested to know what you think they are. I came across them on a ride in Walt Disney Studios, Disneyland Paris:


----------



## tameboy (Aug 21, 2010)

oops double posted by accident


----------



## norab (Aug 25, 2010)

perhaps fiberglass mockups created for the movie Pearl Harbor the markings are of that style, the aircraft are P-40N's


----------



## tameboy (Aug 26, 2010)

thanks norab. I had originally wondered if they might have been a Typhoon variant given that air intake under the prop. However the air intake on the Typhoon was an altogether fatter affair, I should have know better. Having now Googled P-40Ns it would seem that these are reasonably accurate mock-ups.


----------



## mekon (Oct 7, 2010)

hi all

here's one for you (from here):




"“The death of a German fighter plane is shown in this remarkable photograph, taken by a Mediterranean allied air forces cameraman, as it was shot apart by a gunner in a heavy bomber of the 15th Air Force in the attack on Budapest, Hungary. .” (1944)"

the quality isn't good, and the time/place/authenticity of the photo is unknown. has anyone come across this photo before?

best guess I can come up with (assuming it _is _German) would be a Me 210 - but the engines are wrong (assuming they _are _engines!)

any thoughts most welcome!


----------



## Crimea_River (Oct 7, 2010)

Interesting shot. I agree with you that it doesn't look like an Me210. The engines stuck out farther than the front of the fuselage on the 210/410. I can't think of any twin engined German fighters that this looks like but if you held a gun to my head and the caption could be believed, I could be convinced that it's an Bf-110D. It's possible that the tail section has twin rudders, hidden by the elevator and the extension of the fuselage aft of the tail could be the dinghy enclosure. The rounded wing tip put me in doubt though.


----------



## norab (Oct 7, 2010)

hard to judge size because there are no other aircraft to give an idea of scale, but I would nominate one of the heavy dayfighter versions of the Ju-88C


----------



## verner (Oct 7, 2010)

I agree.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 15, 2010)

carson1934 said:


> Good morning gentlemen,
> 
> Is there someone who could help me out with information and/or pics concerning the [[/B]Mariscraft 185[/B]which was a 1939 aircraft on duty with the air service of the mexican navy? I think this was called also "Minero mexicano" (I don't know why)
> Thanks for your help
> ...


----------



## carson1934 (Oct 15, 2010)

Thanks very very much Sal.
I look forward to receiving information and data on aircraft in caption.
If you prefer you may answer by MP or use my email address (I sent you an email today)
Cheers
Carson1934


----------



## alejandro_ (Apr 1, 2011)

I found this photo in ÐŸÐ¾Ð´Ð·ÐµÐ¼ÐµÐ»ÑŒÑ ÐšÑ‘Ð½Ð¸Ð³ÑÐ±ÐµÑ€Ð³Ð° • ÐŸÑ€Ð¾ÑÐ¼Ð¾Ñ‚Ñ€ Ñ‚ÐµÐ¼Ñ‹ - Ð’Ð¾ÐµÐ½Ð½Ð¾Ðµ Ñ„Ð¾Ñ‚Ð¾ ÐŸÑ€ÑƒÑÑÐ¸Ð¸ 1944-1945

Can anyone identify which Bf-109 variant is?


----------



## AMCKen (Apr 14, 2011)

I'll say it's a G or an F, but you knew that already. I can't pin it down any better.


----------



## icepac (Jun 1, 2011)

That german twin going down has the same wing shape as the TA154.


----------



## max m will (Aug 30, 2011)

Waynos said:


> You've got to love the genius that thought "why has there never been a jet biplane? I kn ow, I'll make one!"
> 
> I remember this coming out in the late 70's and REALLY hoping it would be a success. The first non military type I ever rooted for


 
Actually, there was a jet-powered biplane once before, but this was long before the turbine engine was even a fever dream. 1910 to be exact. The man who deisgned and built this was Henri Coanda. It was actually an early ducted fan, and helped Coanda to think of what we now call the Coanda Effect, which simply means that moving air is sticky. The Coanda Effect eventually led to, among other Fowler flaps.


----------



## Michael Ogden (Dec 19, 2017)

Waynos said:


> Well done Graeme - and bonus kudos to Tzaw1! The Avro went through various changes in its life but it seems Avro could not persuade anyone to buy it. Which makes me wonder what was wrong with it as, to my modern eyes, it doesn't look like it would be any worse than other contemporary designs. Its a shame you found the 4 motor version as I was going to use that after a few more pics just as a test
> 
> Advertising images are a great source from the 30's and 40's. You get a feel for what they *wanted* the plane to look like, Like the Heyford image below with its very refined fuselage, in comparison with what was built. They are also a good source for the first images of a type. Earlier in the thread I posted an image from Westland for what became the wyvern, taken fromm a wartime advert when its development had only just begun and its existance was top secret. Similarly there is a Blackburn ad that was printed in 1936/37 showing a 'generic' advanced monoplane in a dive that was revealed, several months later, and with a Mercury radial, rather than the 'Kestrel type' of the ad, to the the Skua, also below.
> 
> ...



My father flew this Northrop K5053 at Filton a number of times in 1938/39
29.11.38. 40mins
23.1.39. 95 mins
17.2.39. 130 mins
27.2.39. 120 mins
1.3.39. 95mins
60mins
2.3.39. 95mins
90mins
3.3.39. 90mins
6.3.39. 90mins
55mins
21.3.39. 55mins
95mins
23.3.39. 70mins
24.3.39. 95mins
95mins
31.3.39. 100mins


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