# Would Stalin of ........A what if



## Haztoys (May 20, 2006)

"I" offten "feel" ...

That if The Nazi's.. Had not tried to over run Europe first 

Stalin would of tried a year or so later ...

Yes ..or ..no ???

And the out come .??? How do you feel on this ..

Thanks 

David


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 20, 2006)

I think Stalin would have tried it. It is an interesting scenerio but I feel that the allies would have been even less prepared for the Soviet Hoard. The only reason that Stalins armies were so depleted was because of the Germans, and only because of Germany was the Soviet Army not in a position to invade the rest of Europe.


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## Jabberwocky (May 20, 2006)

John Erickson and other war-time Soviet historians, have postulated that after the sigining of the non-agression pact with Germany, Stalin never really looked at central Europe, but that he was far more interested in the Baltic region and the establishment of warm water ports that allowed year-round access to the Med. The wartime march into Germany and the post-war "Iron Curtain" domination of Central Europe were more a Soviet paranoid overreaction to German agression, than part of any explicit desire to march against Germany in the period.

The vast majority of Stvaka wargames in the 1935-1939 period were aimed at Soviet defensive and counterattacking operations against an offensive on her western borders, usually against a combined Polish/German opponent. By 1940 Stalin was looking south and north, not to the west. He was after easier game than that which the Germans offered.

Given a free hand, and time to sort the troubles that the Red Army experianced in 1940-41, I think that the Soviet Union may of launched operations to the south against Romania in 1942 or 1943, there was certainly no love between Antonescu and Stalin. The eventual goal would of been to push through the baltic states to the Adriatic, thus gaining significant resources and population centres as well as a way to link them with the rest of the world.


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## lesofprimus (May 20, 2006)

I feel that Stalin would have been more interested in the Pacific and/or Scandinavia than Europe....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 20, 2006)

I can see that with China and all. Hell they made there move after WW2 down in the region.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (May 21, 2006)

Stalin was a member of the Big Three.

Chiang Kai-shek was added leader which made Roosevelt,Churchill,Stalin,Kai-shek the Big Four. 

Two of them turned agains't us.

US and Brits, How long will our good feelings last? A long time I hope.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 21, 2006)

I dont see the US and England becoming unfriendly with each for quite sometime. The friendship and partnership that was built up during WW2 will carry on for a long time. I have worked with British Soldiers before and it was allways a great experience.


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## kiwimac (May 21, 2006)

Interestingly enough, Rudel in his autobiography mentions seeing airfields being built and fortifications in construction while flying over Russian territory with the first wave of Luftwaffe attackers. So who knows!

Kiwimac


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## lesofprimus (May 21, 2006)

Interesting point kiwi....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 21, 2006)

I truely think the Russians were preparing there own war and the German invasion just changed all there plans.


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## Haztoys (May 21, 2006)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I truely think the Russians were preparing there own war and the German invasion just changed all there plans.



Own war "on" who ??? .... 

Thanks for the input guys ... Some of the answers "I" did not ever contemplate .... But good to think about


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 21, 2006)

I believe they were going to invade eastern europe and with the influence that Germany was having on the countries such as Romania, Bulgaria, and Yugoslavia and the way that Germany entered the Czech which was part of the Soviet Sphere of Influence atleast in the Soviets mind, Stalin would have invaded Germany as well. Stalin saw Hitler as a great enemy anyway.


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## Glider (May 21, 2006)

A personal view is that Stalin would do anything rather than take on Germany. His country was starving as a result of his policies and the Industrial age was still in its infancy. His armed forces were in disarray after the purge of the officers and their equipment was well behind the times. Certainly some first class equipment was on stream in particular T34's, KV1's and artillery generally but the cost of re-equipping a whole army of that size was going to be huge.
To take on Germany which was clearly developing a powerful army/airforce/Navy would be a huge risk. It should be remembered that the Russian People had recent memories of the effectiveness of the German Army and wouldn't want to go through that again.
I go with the opinion that he was after easier game. The Russian Air force could take on the Japenese airforce on equal terms, probably outnumber it and have significant advantages in areas such as Ground Attack. Plus his army could deal with the Japenese Army without much difficulty.
Stalins intentions would I suspect have been East not West.


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## plan_D (May 21, 2006)

_"Chiang Kai-shek was added leader which made Roosevelt,Churchill,Stalin,Kai-shek the Big Four. 

Two of them turned agains't us."_

Chiang did not turn against the Western Allies. 

Before the Second World War, China had been locked in a bitter civil war that began in 1926. The two main opponents were the Communist, CCP, led by Mao Zedong and the Nationalist, KMT, led by Chiang Kai-Shek. When Japan invaded Manchuria both sides declared a cease-fire in preparation for the oncoming Japanese assault. 

When Japan finally did invade Chiang had to fight them with his hands tied as he knew full well that once the KMT were weakened the CCP would flare up in Eastern China and take-over. This proved to be correct. When Japan surrendered the KMT were too weak to take on the CCP. Only with US intervention did and Japanese garrison troops did the KMT take back many population centers. But when the peace talks completely collapsed in 1946 the U.S pulled out it's aid, and declared neutrality. This led to full-scale war between the KMT and CCP. 

The civil war finally ended in 1949 with the CCP victorious. The KMT with Chiang Kai-Shek at it's head retreated to Taiwan, which leads to the current day argument that Taiwan is a renegade province of China. The KMT still lead Taiwan. 

When the CCP took over, Mao Zedong turned his back on the Western World. And created the Red China that we know today.


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## Bullockracing (May 21, 2006)

pD is 100% correct. I was going to post something similiar, but I think he covered anything I would've said anyway.

Good post, pD.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 26, 2006)

Yes very good and interesting. I have some interesting pics of Check and Mao in one of my books that covers that topic that he just posted.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jun 18, 2006)

Ok this ones run its course so annother Stalin related what if... What would post war Europe be like if Churchill stayed in power in the 1945 elections and Roosevelt hadn't died? these two got on better with Stalin than Attlee and Truman, whould their improved relations change the course of the Cold war at all?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 18, 2006)

No Stalin was just as power hungry as Hitler was.


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## syscom3 (Jun 18, 2006)

I think that if Russia made moves into the Pacific, beyond Manchuria, that would have drawn in the US for a war. 

The US had no love for communism and considering how strained US/Japan ties were over China, Russia would have been the proverbial "straw that broke the camels back".


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jun 19, 2006)

That is quite possible. I still think that public opinion would have kept the US out for a while longer though at first.


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