# Hello chaps... its me again



## Readie (Oct 11, 2017)

Hello chaps
Its been a while. I hope everyone is ok in this mad world.
Best wishes
John aka Readie

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## rochie (Oct 11, 2017)

Hi John, good to see you pop in

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## Airframes (Oct 11, 2017)

Welcome back John !

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## Wurger (Oct 11, 2017)

Nice to see you back John.

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## Elmas (Oct 11, 2017)

Great to see you again here. How's the weather there in southern England?

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## Readie (Oct 11, 2017)

rochie said:


> Hi John, good to see you pop in

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## Readie (Oct 11, 2017)

Thank you.
I've retired now so I'm free to spend time admiring Spitfires

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## Readie (Oct 11, 2017)

Elmas said:


> Great to see you again here. How's the weather there in southern England?



Seasonal... er, rainy, windy and grey. Hey ho

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## Readie (Oct 11, 2017)

rochie said:


> Hi John, good to see you pop in



thanks mate. You ok|?


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## Readie (Oct 11, 2017)

Wurger said:


> Nice to see you back John.



Nice to be back


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## Readie (Oct 11, 2017)

Airframes said:


> Welcome back John !



Mad as a balloon...

Ive a comprehensive list of things NOT to mention


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## pbehn (Oct 11, 2017)

Hi Readie, is the picture to celebrate the railways reaching Kent at last?

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## Marcel (Oct 11, 2017)

Messerschmitt Messerschmitt Messerschmitt Messerschmitt Messerschmitt Messerschmitt 

Hi John how's Matt?

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## Readie (Oct 11, 2017)

pbehn said:


> Hi Readie, is the picture to celebrate the railways reaching Kent at last?



Ha.... the romance of the west country expresses.


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## Readie (Oct 11, 2017)

Hi Marcel
Matt is ok. We have irregular emails these days despite my efforts in trying to reengage him


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## Marcel (Oct 11, 2017)

Readie said:


> Hi Marcel
> Matt is ok. We have irregular emails these days despite my efforts in trying to reengage him


Ah well, at least you're here again  Nice to hear from you.

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## Elmas (Oct 11, 2017)

we could sell windy days by the dozen...but not rain since April....

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## mikewint (Oct 11, 2017)

Agreed, nice to have you back. So England actually has weather?

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## rochie (Oct 11, 2017)

Readie said:


> thanks mate. You ok|?


Pretty good thanks

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## Readie (Oct 11, 2017)

mikewint said:


> Agreed, nice to have you back. So England actually has weather?



We cant compete with the US weather this year Mike. Unbelievable destruction and now the Californian fires.... jeez


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## rochie (Oct 11, 2017)

Readie said:


> We cant compete with the US weather this year Mike. Unbelievable destruction and now the Californian fires.... jeez


Yes John, my best mate lives in Santa Rosa and fortunately he and his family are ok though the fires passed him by only 1 or 2 miles, he is also an EMT so has been working in the thick of it

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 11, 2017)

Welcome back.

Wish we could get Matt to return.

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## fubar57 (Oct 11, 2017)

Welcome back John. One less MIA to worry about and I agree with the others about Matt

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## Readie (Oct 11, 2017)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Welcome back.
> 
> Wish we could get Matt to return.



Thanks Chris.
Believe me I've tried. I've passed on all your PM's all to no avail I'm afraid


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 11, 2017)

Readie said:


> Thanks Chris.
> Believe me I've tried. I've passed on all your PM's all to no avail I'm afraid



He has never responded to any of my emails. Only makes me believe I am the reason for his departure. Eats me up...


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## Marcel (Oct 11, 2017)

Hmmm, I would be very disappointed if that was the reason.

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## Crimea_River (Oct 11, 2017)

Congratulations on the retirement and welcome back! Nice to see some of the old guard popping up again.

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## vikingBerserker (Oct 11, 2017)

Great to see you again!

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## Gnomey (Oct 11, 2017)

Welcome back!

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## mikewint (Oct 11, 2017)

Yea the US is getting zapped. Texas is not that far from here and neither is Georgia/Mississippi/Alabama and we did see some remnants of both hurricanes but nothing other than a bit of rain while parts of Texas saw 1.3 meters of rain. California has always been prone to those fires with all the creosote brush and drying winds. Then people move into those areas building houses. Around here it's housing built in natural river flood plains. So spring floods are not that uncommon. Along the rivers houses are often built on stilts.
Now cloudy, rain, fog, cool and repeat.....is not weather

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## Airframes (Oct 11, 2017)

Yep, Britain doesn't have a climate - only weather !!

Winter = rain is cold.
Spring = rain is slightly warmer.
Summer = rain is warmer.
Autumn = rain is cooler and heavier.

Forecast - it'll rain or get dark before morning ...................

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## parsifal (Oct 11, 2017)

Really nice to hear from you john.

God created three things to make mens lives bearable....planes. trains, and automobiles

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## parsifal (Oct 11, 2017)

Airframes said:


> Yep, Britain doesn't have a climate - only weather !!
> 
> Winter = rain is cold.
> Spring = rain is slightly warmer.
> ...




When you guys are done with your Brexit shinanagins you could start a new export market selling rain to the aussies I think.

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## Shortround6 (Oct 11, 2017)

Welcome back!!

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## XBe02Drvr (Oct 11, 2017)

Welcome back, John!



parsifal said:


> When you guys are done with your Brexit shinanagins you could start a new export market selling rain to the aussies


 and the Californians!

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## Thorlifter (Oct 12, 2017)

Welcome back good sir!

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## Readie (Oct 12, 2017)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> He has never responded to any of my emails. Only makes me believe I am the reason for his departure. Eats me up...



Chris, I don't want to say too much on line but I can assure you that you are not the reason for Matt's absence.

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## Readie (Oct 12, 2017)

parsifal said:


> When you guys are done with your Brexit shinanagins you could start a new export market selling rain to the aussies I think.



 Indeed.


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## Readie (Oct 12, 2017)

Thanks you everyone for your welcome back. I appreciate it.
The above is one of my favourite pictures. Says it all to me.

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## Wayne Little (Oct 12, 2017)

Welcome back John.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 12, 2017)

Readie said:


> Chris, I don't want to say too much on line but I can assure you that you are not the reason for Matt's absence.



Please send me a PM. As I said, he never responded to any of my emails.

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## Readie (Oct 12, 2017)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Please send me a PM. As I said, he never responded to any of my emails.



I’ve done that. I’m still navigating my way around the new style site. I hope it’s sent and you receive it

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 12, 2017)

Readie said:


> I’ve done that. I’m still navigating my way around the new style site. I hope it’s sent and you receive it



Sorry, did not receive it.


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## Readie (Oct 12, 2017)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Sorry, did not receive it.



I tried again.I didnt realise 'start conversation' button was 'send' d'oh..
You got my pm now?.

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## Readie (Oct 12, 2017)

I'm on facebook under 'John Read'. the icon is me clinging to the underside of the world...
If anyone would like to keep in touch please send a friends request.
Ta


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 12, 2017)

Readie said:


> I tried again.I didnt realise 'start conversation' button was 'send' d'oh..
> You got my pm now?.



Good to go, thank you.

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## Readie (Oct 12, 2017)

mikewint said:


> Yea the US is getting zapped. Texas is not that far from here and neither is Georgia/Mississippi/Alabama and we did see some remnants of both hurricanes but nothing other than a bit of rain while parts of Texas saw 1.3 meters of rain. California has always been prone to those fires with all the creosote brush and drying winds. Then people move into those areas building houses. Around here it's housing built in natural river flood plains. So spring floods are not that uncommon. Along the rivers houses are often built on stilts.
> Now cloudy, rain, fog, cool and repeat.....is not weather



That’s right Mike. But we have to endure living next to the French


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## Airframes (Oct 12, 2017)

Who steal our summer, and then charge us to visit it !

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## mikewint (Oct 12, 2017)

Now that I think about it, I did see the sun TWICE during my two week (excuse me: FORTNIGHT) visit

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## pbehn (Oct 12, 2017)

mikewint said:


> Now that I think about it, I did see the sun TWICE during my two week (excuse me: FORTNIGHT) visit


Did you go to hospital?


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## Readie (Oct 12, 2017)

Airframes said:


> Who steal our summer, and then charge us to visit it !



Oooh la la
Les Anglais humour....
Never really travels over the English Channel to our Er... sensitive neighbours


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## Readie (Oct 12, 2017)

mikewint said:


> Now that I think about it, I did see the sun TWICE during my two week (excuse me: FORTNIGHT) visit



Twice !!
That’s a whole years worth.


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## pbehn (Oct 12, 2017)

Readie said:


> Oooh la la
> Les Anglais humour....
> Never really travels over the English Channel to our Er... sensitive neighbours


When I lived in Paris my newsagent used to call rain a "cadeau Anglais" a present from England.

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## Readie (Oct 12, 2017)

pbehn said:


> When I lived in Paris my newsagent used to call rain a "cadeau Anglais" a present from England.



Very good☔️
They love us really


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## Elmas (Oct 13, 2017)

Airframes said:


> Yep, Britain doesn't have a climate - only weather !!
> 
> Winter = rain is cold.
> Spring = rain is slightly warmer.
> ...



Yes, but if you Englishmen do insist to play Cricket on Sundays afternoons you will certainly get some rain.
I did try to convince my fellow countrymen to play Cricket as the surest metod to get some rain, but at no avail, they did not believe me.

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## pbehn (Oct 13, 2017)

Elmas said:


> Yes, but if you Englishmen do insist to play Cricket on Sundays afternoons you will certainly get some rain.
> I did try to convince my fellow countrymen to play Cricket as the surest metod to get some rain, but at no avail, they did not believe me.


A cricket test match lasts five days, starting at 11 AM and finishing at 6.30PM. Only a complete idiot would invent and play such a game in England. No surprise that countries that actually have sunshine are better than us.


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 13, 2017)

Are you kidding? The only time Cricket has ever made sense to me was when it was rained out!


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## pbehn (Oct 13, 2017)

vikingBerserker said:


> Are you kidding? The only time Cricket has ever made sense to me was when it was rained out!



You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.
When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game

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## Airframes (Oct 13, 2017)

See, simple really !


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## XBe02Drvr (Oct 13, 2017)

Not simple enough! Any game that complicated would never fly here in the States, especially one so drawn out and dependent on delayed gratification. We don't do delayed gratification.
Cheers,
Wes


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## pbehn (Oct 13, 2017)

XBe02Drvr said:


> Not simple enough! Any game that complicated would never fly here in the States, especially one so drawn out and dependent on delayed gratification. We don't do delayed gratification.
> Cheers,
> Wes


I had been told that Americans were no good at sex because they will not delay gratification.

Cricket is a game not a sport and is a social event above anything else. The contest is between bat and ball, spectators go to watch the game and admre great performances, the loyalty to any team comes second to any individual performance. I like it but I understand why some don't, some just see it as organised laziness.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 13, 2017)

Oh snap...


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## Elmas (Oct 14, 2017)

"You are getting more an more English, Antonello.." said to me my friend Tony as we were having a walk along a park in Yorkshire.
"Why??"
"You are starting to understand Cricket rules,,,"


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## pbehn (Oct 14, 2017)

Elmas said:


> "You are getting more an more English, Antonello.." said to me my friend Tony as we were having a walk along a park in Yorkshire.
> "Why??"
> "You are starting to understand Cricket rules,,,"


Good heavens Sir, they are Laws, 
Laws of Cricket - Wikipedia


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## Elmas (Oct 14, 2017)

It is very simple, even for a layman, to understand if a Cricket toss has been a good one or not. If the toss has been an extremely good one, people clap for the player, but of course without doing any audible noise. If the toss has been a medium one, people nod gravely. If the toss has been a poor one, people rub gently their heads, trying to look elsewere...

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## XBe02Drvr (Oct 14, 2017)

pbehn said:


> I like it but I understand why some don't, some just see it as organised laziness.


Hell, there's a lot of complaining here about our so-called "national pastime", baseball, because there's so much "wasted time" and the action isn't fast-paced and continuous enough.
Cheers,
Wes


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## Airframes (Oct 14, 2017)

The rules, and the game, are a lot simpler than, for example, American football (tame rugby, with armour !) or Baseball (rounders !), and flows more easily - I am now running away !!


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## pbehn (Oct 14, 2017)

When I was in Japan we calculated that the local baseball team Hiroshima Carp had got more days on their time sheet than we had, every taxi seemed to have baseball on the radio every freakin day.


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## Readie (Oct 14, 2017)

Elmas said:


> Yes, but if you Englishmen do insist to play Cricket on Sundays afternoons you will certainly get some rain.
> I did try to convince my fellow countrymen to play Cricket as the surest metod to get some rain, but at no avail, they did not believe me.



Cricket metaphors add a new dimension to the incomprehensiblity of English

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## pbehn (Oct 14, 2017)

Readie said:


> Cricket metaphors add a new dimension to the incomprehensiblity of English


Cricket was invented by the English because, not being a spiritual people, they needed some idea of eternity.

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## XBe02Drvr (Oct 14, 2017)

pbehn said:


> I had been told that Americans were no good at sex because they will not delay gratification.


Well we started out as children of the mother country, and were good, solid, puritan gratification deniers, but then we slipped up and imported all those Mediterranean and Gaelic folk, who taught us passion, and life has never been the same since.
Cheers,
Wes


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## pbehn (Oct 14, 2017)

XBe02Drvr said:


> Hell, there's a lot of complaining here about our so-called "national pastime", baseball, because there's so much "wasted time" and the action isn't fast-paced and continuous enough.
> Cheers,
> Wes


That is the strange thing about cricket because it is a social event slow play only annoys those who don't understand it. My wife likes to listen to cricket on the radio, there is a lot of joking, no politics or "issues" she doesn't even mind if it is rained off.


XBe02Drvr said:


> Well we started out as children of the mother country, and were good, solid, puritan gratification deniers, but then we slipped up and imported all those Mediterranean and Gaelic folk, who taught us passion, and life has never been the same since.
> Cheers,
> Wes


If you go to Italy you will see young men discussing "amore" with young women until 2 AM over a coffee. You do not see that in UK because they are already in bed. The idea that the world speaks English while the British were puritan gratification deniers is counter to logic. It is a historical fact that the British would shag a warm loaf, however they also wrote the history books and don't like to speak ill of their ancestors.

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## mikewint (Oct 14, 2017)



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## XBe02Drvr (Oct 14, 2017)

pbehn said:


> The idea that the world speaks English while the British were puritan gratification deniers is counter to logic. It is a historical fact that the British would shag a warm loaf, however they also wrote the history books and don't like to speak ill of their ancestors.


Righto, old chap, but we didn't come from that sort of Britain. We came from the Puritan strain, who I believe, eventually prevailed in Britain as well. Now that subculture from south of Mason-Dixon that drawls instead of speaking, they sprang from a colony put forth by the English nobility, who did fit your metaphor. A document signed at Appomattox Courthouse in April, 1865, sort of defines who writes the history books here. (Sorry, Rebs, but that's how it is.)
Cheers,
Wes


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## Readie (Oct 14, 2017)

mikewint said:


> View attachment 468943



I look forward to watching the US team in the next world cup.....

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## Readie (Oct 14, 2017)

pbehn said:


> That is the strange thing about cricket because it is a social event slow play only annoys those who don't understand it. My wife likes to listen to cricket on the radio, there is a lot of joking, no politics or "issues" she doesn't even mind if it is rained off.
> 
> If you go to Italy you will see young men discussing "amore" with young women until 2 AM over a coffee. You do not see that in UK because they are already in bed. The idea that the world speaks English while the British were puritan gratification deniers is counter to logic. It is a historical fact that the British would shag a warm loaf, however they also wrote the history books and don't like to speak ill of their ancestors.



We'll have none of this continental bollocks of 'amore' thank you.

The Welsh & Scots shag anything with a pulse.... The southern English are much more refined and just the beat the shit out of each other given little or no provocation, 

Some say that our brief membership of the poxy EU has taught us to be more understanding and forgiving.... not the case old boy.


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## Readie (Oct 14, 2017)

pbehn said:


> Cricket was invented by the English because, not being a spiritual people, they needed some idea of eternity.



We have that concept genetically hard wired into us.


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## pbehn (Oct 14, 2017)

XBe02Drvr said:


> Righto, old chap, but we didn't come from that sort of Britain. We came from the Puritan strain, who I believe, eventually prevailed in Britain as well. Now that subculture from south of Mason-Dixon that drawls instead of speaking, they sprang from a colony put forth by the English nobility, who dat id fit your metaphor. A document signed Appomattox Courthouse in April, 1865, sort of defines who writes the history books here. (Sorry, Rebs, but that's how it is.)
> Cheers,
> Wes


I don't know much about American social history but I have read several books on that of the English and British. Victorian and Puritan are almost synonyms although they are not the same they are perceived to be. However in the Victorian era these are the facts.
The age of consent was thirteen
London had 80,000 prostitutes even though its population was 1 million in 1800 and 6 million in 1900. There were more brothels than schools.
Prostitution was the highest paid job available to most of the female population, highly educated women were still on the game because they could charge even more from their aristocratic clients.
Whatever prudish values the Victorians professed to have they also believed that men should have an outlet for their "urges".
Venereal disease killed as many soldiers as enemy action.
The industrial revolution and health care improvements that led the UKs population to explode and people to collect in cities also led to a moral breakdown. This panicked the government who introduced all sorts of new laws and policies. There was a massive church building programme If you visit the UK you can see many beautiful churches but most built in the Victorian era in cities were big brick monstrosities built in panic to get society "back in the fold". It was the people from UKs overflowing cities and those from Ireland because of the famine who formed the bulk of the people flocking to the New World. A smaller number of business men and aristocrats went with capital to get even richer than they already were.

Since I don't know much about the USA I will just say that every Wild West movie has a saloon with pretty girls and low necklines because prostitution was integral to the development of America and the people who founded states like Utah which allowed polygamy did not have denial of gratification in mind, quite the opposite.

The success of the Victorians in convincing themselves and everyone else that what happened didn't happen can be seen every time "Victorian attitudes" are discussed. I suspect it is similar on your side of the pond.


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## pbehn (Oct 14, 2017)

Readie said:


> We'll have none of this continental bollocks of 'amore' thank you.
> Some say that our brief membership of the poxy EU has taught us to be more understanding and forgiving.... not the case old boy.


Well I speak Italian German and French and enjoyed working in those and other countries. I don't discuss the EU because that is politics

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## mikewint (Oct 14, 2017)

Eleanor Dumont
Like any true entrepreneur, Eleanor Dumont saw opportunity wherever she went. She opened several successful gaming parlors in California, offering a rarity during the time - a respectable lady dealer. Her parlor, Vingt-et-un, was finely furnished, served Champagne instead of whiskey, and only accepted the patronage of well-dressed gentlemen. It was hugely popular, but men lost interest as Dumont's beauty waned and more women began to fill the camps.
After the gold ran dry and the crowds cleared out, Dumont bought a ranch. During this time, she fell in love with a handsome, silver-tongued man named Jack McKnight. Dumont fell head over heels for the man; unfortunately, McKnight was a con man, and he ended up stealing all of her hard-earned money and selling her ranch, leaving Dumont completely destitute. Not one to take that type of treatment from anyone, she chased down her former lover with a shotgun and killed him.
In need of money, she began to set up gambling tables at mining camps; it’s said that she met Calamity Jane at one of these camps and tried to teach the famous frontierswoman how to play poker.

Fannie Porter
Fannie Porter ran one of the more high-end brothels in Texas, one that was said to have “fine glass fixtures, silk sheets and plush carpeting.” Special guests, like the members of Butch Cassidy’s gang of bandits (known as the Wild Bunch) were given chilled Champagne. Despite being a classy lady, she was no pushover, and was known to chase law enforcers off her property with a broom.
Porter's "boardinghouse" "served as a rest stop, hideout, rendezvous, and headquarters for Butch Cassidy and the rest of the Hole-in-the-Wall Gang." It’s said that the Sundance Kid met his later girlfriend and partner-in-crime Etta Place while she was working at Fannie’s brothel. The last time the Wild Bunch showed up to Fannie’s place, intent on going their separate ways, she treated them like real VIPs, throwing them an elaborate going-away party.

Big Nose Kate
Mary Katharine Haroney, or Big Nose Kate, is probably best known for her on-again, off-again relationship with famous gunslinger Doc Holliday. Haroney ran away from her foster home when she was 16 and became a prostitute shortly after. She met Holliday when she moved to Texas and the two started their lengthy and rocky relationship. It is said that Haroney and Holliday would have heated arguments that would become violent whenever Haroney drank too much.
Despite their unhealthy relationship, Haroney once broke Holliday out of jail by starting a fire and pulling a gun on the jail guard. Holliday was so grateful that he promised to give up gambling. Haroney also promised to live a clean life, giving up prostitution. However, both their promises were short-lived and their rocky relationship continued until Holiday’s death.

Mollie Johnson
Mollie Johnson owned a brothel on one of the corner streets in Deadwood. Her life appealed to the town’s people in the same way the lives of reality show stars appeal to us today. Her antics often made headlines in the Deadwood newspapers. One of her favorite pastimes was renting a carriage and riding it up and down the camp, snubbing any “lesser” women she passed. She also turned heads when she married a black entertainer, Lew Spencer. Johnson served as mentor to three golden-haired female employees (Ida Clark, Ida Cheplan, and Jennie Duchesneau) and was known as "Queen of the Blondes."
One notable event that was reported by the papers was a buggy race between Johnson and some of her girls. After getting drunk at a baseball game, she rented two buggies and raced them. None of the women were hurt, but it is said the buggies were reduced to splinters.

Pearl de Vere
Pearl de Vere’s gaming parlor in Cripple Creek, Colorado, catered to the more prosperous gentleman in the area. De Vere’s girls fared better than other women in the business - they received regular medical exams, wore fine clothing, and were paid well.
Like Mollie Johnson, de Vere liked to parade around the town in her carriage. She wore a new luxurious outfit each time she went out, seducing men as she made her daily rounds. She built The Old Homestead, an incredibly decadent parlor which featured fine furnishings, a crystal electric chandelier, and a telephone. (The latter two were considered luxuries during the period.) The Old Homestead exclusively catered to rich clientele, asking for $250 a night, which would be around $6500 today.

Ah Toy
Ah Toy was the first Chinese prostitute in San Francisco and the most famous Asian American woman in the Old West. Ah Toy immigrated from China with her husband, but when he died during the ocean crossing, she took up with the captain of the ship. The captain "showered gold upon her," giving her quite a nest egg when she landed in San Francisco.
An Asian woman in the West at the time was something of a curiosity, and she would charge clients an ounce of gold (or $16) for just a peep at her goods. In time, she was able to build her own business and brought women over from China to work at her numerous brothels. Because she ran a lucrative business, people often tried to extort her. However, Ah Toy was a clever woman, and she repeatedly used the San Francisco court system to ensure her and her girls’ protection. Unfortunately, in 1854 a law was passed that prohibited Chinese Americans from taking their grievances to court, allowing her to be hassled by both white Americans and rival Chinese business people.

Mary Ellen Pleasant
Mary Ellen Pleasant, who was also known as Mistress Pleasant and was called the Mother of Civil Rights in California, was a busy woman. Perhaps a former slave (though her early past is not entirely known), she was heavily involved in the abolitionist movement. Along with her husband James Smith, Pleasant helped free slaves via the Underground Railroad.
When suspicions arose about her involvement with John Brown and Harpy's Ferry, she escaped the East Coast and moved to San Francisco where she was able to pass as white (despite being African American or perhaps of mixed race) and secure herself a position as an adviser to Thomas Bell, a Bank of California director.
It is said that at one point she was one of the richest black women in America. She made her money in a number of ways. Some reports say she owned and ran a number of lucrative bordellos where she would set up her girls with rich white men. Others say she would groom and train the girls to marry these men. On the abolitionist front, she gave $30,000 to help fund John Bell’s slave rebellions and won a court case against a company when she was refused a seat in one of their streetcars.

Julia Bulette Was the Original Hooker with a Heart of Gold
It is said when Julia Bulette arrived in Virginia City, Nevada in 1859, she was the only single woman in town. She was described as being a beautiful and witty woman who was sought by many of the miners in town. Soon after arriving in Virginia City, Bulette decided to become a self-employed prostitute. Bulette was said to have a heart of gold, donating large sums of money to the town, nursing sick miners, and raising money for the Union during the Civil War. She was made an honorary firefighter because of her numerous charitable contributions to the townspeople.
In 1867, Bulette was brutally murdered in her bed by a French drifter. She was found in her bedroom strangled and bludgeoned to death. Thousands attended her funeral, and many businesses in town closed shop out of respect.

Dora Dufran
Dufran started off as a dance hall girl and at the age of 15, quickly promoted herself to madam. Dufran had several prostitution houses in Deadwood, the most popular of which was called Diddlin’ Dora’s. The brothel promised its patrons “The Three D’s - Dining, Drinking, and Dancing” and called itself “a place where you can bring your mother.”
During her time in Deadwood, she befriended Calamity Jane and the two women remained friends well into their 40s. They reconnected later in life when Jane, suffering from the effects of alcoholism, came to Dufran looking for work. She gave Jane a job at her brothel as a cook and laundry woman. Jane died shortly after.

Squirrel Tooth Alice
Mary Elizabeth "Libby" Haley Thompson (or Squirrel Tooth Alice, as she was more commonly known because of a gap in her teeth and her love of prairie dogs) had a traumatic youth. She was kidnapped by Comanche when she was 10 years old and remained with the tribe for three years. Though her family paid the ransom fee and had her returned, she was shunned by society thereafter, with the exception of an older man who took an interest in her. He wanted to marry Thompson, but her father did not like the match so he shot and killed the suitor.
After that incident, Thompson ran away from home and worked at several establishments as a dance hall girl and a prostitute. She eventually opened her own place when she and her husband settled down in Sweetwater, Texas.

Mother Damnable's
Mary Ann Conklin (or Mother Damnable, as she was more commonly known, on account of her temper and constant swearing) managed a hotel and brothel in Seattle. She could curse like a sailor in English, French, Spanish, German, Portuguese, and Chinese. It is said that she was always surrounded by wild dogs and that she carried stones in her apron which she would throw at people who incurred her wrath.
Conklin died in 1873 and was buried in Seattle Cemetery. Years later, the bodies in the cemetery were moved to make room for a park. According to legend, when Conklin’s body was dug up, it was incredibly heavy. Curious, the workers opened the coffin and found that her body had completely turned to stone.

Josephine Hensley
Known as Chicago Joe by her customers, Josephine Hensley left Chicago and set up shop in a mining town in Montana. She opened her first brothel in a log cabin in Helena, Montana, employing a full orchestra to entertain the guests when she and her girls were busy entertaining the other guests. Her brothel was so popular that she eventually had to move her business to a larger building. She started to invest in real estate, and, with her husband, opened a dance hall and The Red Light Saloon. She became the largest landowner in the district and was so prosperous that she was dubbed “Queen of the Red Light District.”

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## pbehn (Oct 14, 2017)

Is that the full list Mike? Seems like you had more than Victorian England.

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## Elmas (Oct 14, 2017)

A very amiable bunch of Ladies, I see...


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## mikewint (Oct 14, 2017)

Those were the most "famous" (notorious) ones but there were many others. In the harsh and lonely mining camps of the Rocky Mountains, men pined for women to the extent they would pay just to view or touch female undergarments, whether or not a woman was wearing them. Any man whose wife lived with him on the frontier was considered rude if he declined to bring her to social functions so she could dance with the other men.
Almost without exception, pioneer mining camps, boomtowns and whistle-stops became home to at least one or two soiled doves, if not a roaring red light district. Contributing heavily to town economies in the way of business licenses, fees and fines, a number of red light districts evolved into the social centers of their communities. Prostitutes working above bars or in the seedier brothels rarely made enough money to retire and often ended their lives by suicide, overdose or illness. Gonorrhea, syphilis and chlamydia, potentially fatal maladies, ran rampant during the 19th century. An 1865 hospital report in Idaho City, Idaho, stated that one out of every seven patients was suffering from venereal disease. Botched abortions and murder rounded out the number of women who died while working as prostitutes. It was a harsh life and they suffered blatant hypocrisy at the hands of local government. Towns demanded their red light ladies pay monthly fines, fees and taxes even as authorities staged raids and arrests. Sometimes towns drummed up business themselves. In 1908, officials in Salt Lake City, Utah, hired Dora Topham, the leading madam of Ogden (known as Belle London), to operate a “legal” red light district. The idea appealed to Topham, who viewed prostitution as inevitable.

With nearly all of America’s territories joined into a united nation by 1912, frontier prostitution began to come to an end. Three major factors contributed to its demise. The first was the Woman’s Christian Temperance Union, formed in 1874 and gaining members as more and more wives came West and discovered what had occupied their men’s time.
Second were military posts that were tiring of their soldiers falling victim to drunkenness, fights, social disease and other maladies associated with prostitution. “Our health tests have proven that if a potential recruit spends twelve hours in Billings, he’s unfit for military service,” a military officer warned Montana officials in 1918. “I am talking about your line of cribs where naked women lean over window sills and entice young boys in for fifty cents or a dollar. Close that south-side line in twenty four hours or the military will move in and do it for you.”
Finally, Prohibition in 1919 served to take the fun out of partying and greatly reduced the existence of red light districts in the nation. With the exception of rarities like the Dumas brothel in Butte, Montana, prostitution, at least as it was known in the frontier West, became part of a bygone era.

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## fubar57 (Oct 14, 2017)

Nice segue......"welcome back" to hookers  We're a classy bunch

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## Lucky13 (Oct 14, 2017)

Greetings old boy....welcome back....pour yourself a large snifter....

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## nuuumannn (Oct 15, 2017)

Hello John, welcome back. Glad you're okay fella.

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## nuuumannn (Oct 15, 2017)

Mike, your tale of frontier prostitution reminds me of a similar story about here. Before New Zealand became a proper country, its 'capital' was a small community in the north of the North Island called Russell. It was known as a fleshpot for sailors transiting through for whaling and sealing, which was carried out extensively in the waters around the islands. At the time it was commonly known as the "Hell Hole of the Pacific" (!)

This from Wikipedia on Russell (Kororareka is its Maori name):

"Kororāreka developed as a result of this trade but soon earned a very bad reputation, a community without laws and full of prostitution, and became known as the "Hell Hole of the Pacific", despite the translation of its name being "How sweet is the penguin", (_korora_ meaning blue penguin and _reka_ meaning sweet). European law had no influence and Māori law was seldom enforced within the town's area. Fighting on the beach at Kororāreka in March 1830, between northern and southern hapū within the Ngāpuhi iwi, became known as the Girls’ War."

Russell, New Zealand - Wikipedia


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## Readie (Oct 15, 2017)

You’re not back on that forum again Dad... we want to go out 
Woof woof

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## mikewint (Oct 15, 2017)

Looks like you could use a new pair of jeans. Iron-On patches work too


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## Readie (Oct 15, 2017)

mikewint said:


> Looks like you could use a new pair of jeans. Iron-On patches work too



Get with the beat. It’s called urban fashion
Ok.... I split the knee. Levi’s are not what they used to be.


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## Shortround6 (Oct 15, 2017)

Unripped..........$40-$60

Ripped with designer name $200 and up, way up

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## XBe02Drvr (Oct 15, 2017)

!


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## mikewint (Oct 16, 2017)

Shortround6 said:


> Unripped..........$40-$60





Readie said:


> Get with the beat.



Well let's see, I'm so far from the beat that I don't even feel the vibrations any more....
AND....Walmart Faded Glory (describes me perfectly) Jeans are $10 and change

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## XBe02Drvr (Oct 16, 2017)

Shortround6 said:


> Unripped..........$40-$60
> 
> Ripped with designer name $200 and up, way up


Jees, what an entrepreneurial opportunity! Buy up some Faded Glories, scrabble around in my welldigging project until the knees tear out then scribble indecipherable initials on them with a magic marker and resell them as designer jeans! What a racket! I'm on the gravy train now!

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## pbehn (Oct 16, 2017)

mikewint said:


> Those were the most "famous" (notorious) ones but there were many others. In the harsh and lonely mining camps of the Rocky Mountains, men pined for women to the extent they would pay just to view or touch female undergarments, whether or not a woman was wearing them. Any man whose wife lived with him on the frontier was considered rude if he declined to bring her to social functions so she could dance with the other men.
> Almost without exception, pioneer mining camps, boomtowns and whistle-stops became home to at least one or two soiled doves, if not a roaring red light district. Contributing heavily to town economies in the way of business licenses, fees and fines, a number of red light districts evolved into the social centers of their communities. Prostitutes working above bars or in the seedier brothels rarely made enough money to retire and often ended their lives by suicide, overdose or illness. Gonorrhea, syphilis and chlamydia, potentially fatal maladies, ran rampant during the 19th century. An 1865 hospital report in Idaho City, Idaho, stated that one out of every seven patients was suffering from venereal disease. Botched abortions and murder rounded out the number of women who died while working as prostitutes. It was a harsh life and they suffered blatant hypocrisy at the hands of local government. Towns demanded their red light ladies pay monthly fines, fees and taxes even as authorities staged raids and arrests. Sometimes towns drummed up business themselves. In 1908, officials in Salt Lake City, Utah, hired Dora Topham, the leading madam of Ogden (known as Belle London), to operate a “legal” red light district. The idea appealed to Topham, who viewed prostitution as inevitable.
> 
> With nearly all of America’s territories joined into a united nation by 1912, frontier prostitution began to come to an end. Three major factors contributed to its demise. The first was the Woman’s Christian Temperance Union, formed in 1874 and gaining members as more and more wives came West and discovered what had occupied their men’s time.
> ...


Great post Mike, it seems that the experience was the same on both sides of the pond. The privations of women who ended up on the street have been well documented but this was not a question of their morality but survival. Girls were not educated at all, women had very limited employment possibilities and there was no social system. Many jobs were dangerous like mining sailors dock workers soldiers and if a womans husband died she had no income. Charles Dickens was well aware of this because he set up a college for fallen women but he just alluded to their plight in his books.

Engels and Marx concluded that conditions were so bad in places like Manchester and Liverpool that the people would rise up in revolution as they had in France. Florence Nightingales reports on hospitals in the Crimea changed nursing. Her reports may have shocked the great and good in London, they didn't shock the troops who knew that hospitals were actually more dangerous than the front.

The solutions were mainly technical. Better sanitation, hygiene, education and increased wealth led to better housing and living standards. The first world war led to a huge change in women working and earnings and was also used to curb drinking with hours that alcohol could be served severely restricted, Scotland passed laws that allowed towns to vote to go dry and some did, but not for long.
After spending most of the Eighteenth century breaking all the commandments and instructions they spent time teaching the Victorians wrote the account up as if they actually had nothing to do with what they did.


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## Readie (Oct 17, 2017)

XBe02Drvr said:


> Jees, what an entrepreneurial opportunity! Buy up some Faded Glories, scrabble around in my welldigging project until the knees tear out then scribble indecipherable initials on them with a magic marker and resell them as designer jeans! What a racket! I'm on the gravy train now!



Thats it in a nutshell. Fade them rip them and sell them to all the bright young things


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## Readie (Oct 17, 2017)

pbehn said:


> Great post Mike, it seems that the experience was the same on both sides of the pond. The privations of women who ended up on the street have been well documented but this was not a question of their morality but survival. Girls were not educated at all, women had very limited employment possibilities and there was no social system. Many jobs were dangerous like mining sailors dock workers soldiers and if a womans husband died she had no income. Charles Dickens was well aware of this because he set up a college for fallen women but he just alluded to their plight in his books.
> 
> Engels and Marx concluded that conditions were so bad in places like Manchester and Liverpool that the people would rise up in revolution as they had in France. Florence Nightingales reports on hospitals in the Crimea changed nursing. Her reports may have shocked the great and good in London, they didn't shock the troops who knew that hospitals were actually more dangerous than the front.
> 
> ...



Ah yes... rewriting history. It’s beconing a modern phenomenon too.

Even a brief study of Victorian life makes me how anyone survived.
The genes that did must have been bloody hardy and needed later in the early 20th century.

White bread & gin.
Keep the poor malnourished and pissed out of their brains so no one every challenged the order of society


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## pbehn (Oct 17, 2017)

Readie said:


> Ah yes... rewriting history. It’s beconing a modern phenomenon too.
> 
> Even a brief study of Victorian life makes me how anyone survived.
> The genes that did must have been bloody hardy and needed later in the early 20th century.
> ...


I don't know that they actually re wrote it just chose the bits they liked which can give the same result. The only thing I have experienced similar to this was the aids epidemic in the 1970s/80s. At first there was a panic with people forecasting the end of humanity while others proclaimed it was Gods judgement. The solution was found in science and education, behaviour has changed, those who go to church may credit the Bible others may disagree.

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## Readie (Oct 17, 2017)

pbehn said:


> I don't know that they actually re wrote it just chose the bits they liked which can give the same result. The only thing I have experienced similar to this was the aids epidemic in the 1970s/80s. At first there was a panic with people forecasting the end of humanity while others proclaimed it was Gods judgement. The solution was found in science and education, behaviour has changed, those who go to church may credit the Bible others may disagree.



Modern social history interests me. The only area where selectivity is missing ... or I can’t see it is the social upheaval of WW1. Apart from the sheer loss of life our society here was never the same. This is also true of the post WW2 generation ‘baby boomers’ (who are now blamed by the young millennials for all our current ills)....Sweet irony.

I digress. The Victorians were masters of selective history as you say . I meant that just called it ‘rewriting history’. Is this why people don’t seem as proud of our history as perhaps they should?

I remember aids. The adverts, scares and ignorance of the 1980’s
Frightening stuff.
Even a blood transfusion at the time could be the kiss of death.

My life (and I suspect yours) has been one predicted cataclysm after another.

Nuclear war & the Russians
Communism
Stock market crashes
Industrial decline
Aids
Brexit
End of the NHS

We stagger on filled with white bread & gin
Same as ever


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## mikewint (Oct 17, 2017)

Yup, biologically if you make it to the point of being able to reproduce and do so, you're now surplus and a drain on resources. The real big challenge, IMHO, will be another global pandemic such as the 1918 H1N1 avian flu that killed 50 - 100 million mostly from the younger age groups. The 1918 was unusual in many respects but lack of vaccines and antibiotics (to treat secondary bacterial pneumonia) were two major ones that contributed to the high death toll. Another unusual aspect of the H1N1s is their targeting of the younger age groups 40 - 20.
With these improvements the 1957 H2N2 (Asian Flu) killed 4 million and the 1968 H3N2 (Hong Kong Flu) also 4 million. When a new H1N1/09 virus appeared in 2009 (Swine Flu) a triple-hybrid (Bird/Swine/Human) medical advancement saw only about 1.8 million deaths. 
Consider the rise of bacterial infections due to antibiotic-resistant strains that are emerging and thus fewer and fewer effective antibiotics and we're getting closer to that 1918 state. We have vaccines but in order to have enough available science has to GUESS at what strains to include in the vaccine formulation making them roughly 56% effective

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## Readie (Oct 17, 2017)

mikewint said:


> Yup, biologically if you make it to the point of being able to reproduce and do so, you're now surplus and a drain on resources. The real big challenge, IMHO, will be another global pandemic such as the 1918 H1N1 avian flu that killed 50 - 100 million mostly from the younger age groups. The 1918 was unusual in many respects but lack of vaccines and antibiotics (to treat secondary bacterial pneumonia) were two major ones that contributed to the high death toll. Another unusual aspect of the H1N1s is their targeting of the younger age groups 40 - 20.
> With these improvements the 1957 H2N2 (Asian Flu) killed 4 million and the 1968 H3N2 (Hong Kong Flu) also 4 million. When a new H1N1/09 virus appeared in 2009 (Swine Flu) a triple-hybrid (Bird/Swine/Human) medical advancement saw only about 1.8 million deaths.
> Consider the rise of bacterial infections due to antibiotic-resistant strains that are emerging and thus fewer and fewer effective antibiotics and we're getting closer to that 1918 state. We have vaccines but in order to have enough available science has to GUESS at what strains to include in the vaccine formulation making them roughly 56% effective



Yep, frightened isn’t it for those with little on no immune system (like me)


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## tomo pauk (Oct 18, 2017)

Cheers, John

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## Readie (Oct 19, 2017)

tomo pauk said:


> Cheers, John



Good evening dear boy
How are you keeping?


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## tomo pauk (Oct 19, 2017)

Readie said:


> Good evening dear boy
> How are you keeping?



Not so bad  Girls are great, thus I'm also.
We're driving the working season (7 months, 7 days a week, sometimes two shifts a day) to the end, plus bought a house in roh-bau condition short time ago.
Yourself?

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## Readie (Oct 20, 2017)

tomo pauk said:


> Not so bad  Girls are great, thus I'm also.
> We're driving the working season (7 months, 7 days a week, sometimes two shifts a day) to the end, plus bought a house in roh-bau condition short time ago.
> Yourself?



Glad to hear you’re doing well Tomo.
I had to goggle ‘Rog-bau’ I must admit. Looks like you’ve got your work cut out with that project but you can make it your own and that’s a good thing.

The young Reads have all flown the best and settled in and around London. I’ve finally retired ,sold up and am trying to learn the art of relaxing and getting my head around not going to work. 

Take care mate

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## Readie (Dec 30, 2017)

Hi Marcel 
I’m stil here mate. I’ve been in and out of hospital recently with more to come unfortunately.
I’ll jpin back in when I get back on my feet
Regards
John

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## Wurger (Dec 30, 2017)

Get well John. Happy New Year !!! Loads of Health and Luck.

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## Gnomey (Dec 30, 2017)

Get well soon!

Happy New Year!

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## Marcel (Dec 30, 2017)

Readie said:


> Hi Marcel
> I’m stil here mate. I’ve been in and out of hospital recently with more to come unfortunately.
> I’ll jpin back in when I get back on my feet
> Regards
> John


Sorry to hear that, John. Hope you'll be well. Also hope 2018 will have a lot of good things in store for you.

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## ARTESH (Dec 30, 2017)

Readie said:


> Hi Marcel
> I’m stil here mate. I’ve been in and out of hospital recently with more to come unfortunately.
> I’ll jpin back in when I get back on my feet
> Regards
> John


Happy 2018!

and i hope you get well sooner.

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## Airframes (Dec 30, 2017)

Hope it's nothing serious old chap, and that recovery is quick and comfortable. All the best for the New Year.

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## Shortround6 (Dec 30, 2017)

Get well and drop in when you can. You are missed.

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## mikewint (Dec 30, 2017)

Add my best wishes to all the above. Hospitals are the pits especially at this time of the year. Get well sooner

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## Elmas (Dec 31, 2017)

Happy 2018 from sunny Sardinia!

Get well soon!

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## Thorlifter (Dec 31, 2017)

I hope you get well soon John. Flirt with the nurses and give the doctors hell!!!!!

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## Crimea_River (Dec 31, 2017)

All the best John.

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## at6 (Dec 31, 2017)

Hoping that you get well soon.

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## Wayne Little (Jan 1, 2018)

Get well mate, happy New year

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## Jeff Hunt (Jan 1, 2018)

Sending good thoughts your way from my neck of the woods.

Get well soon,

Jeff

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## vikingBerserker (Jan 2, 2018)

I hope you get heal well my friend.

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## fubar57 (Jan 3, 2018)

With all here John

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## Readie (Jan 4, 2018)

Thank you all
I do appreciate your wishes and thoughts.
Keep those Spitfires flying 
Regards 
John

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