# Seesul´s lingual corner



## seesul (Jan 12, 2009)

As you probably know, I´ve never learn English at school, so from time to time I have some troubles with translation...
So I´ve opened this thread in order to discuss about gramacy, words etc. with you.
I won´t ask you everyday but just in case of need, hoping I´m not bothering you...

O.K. so my question for today is:
 the *verb got in connection with another verb in slang* as perhabs you got to move (you gotta move) or I got to do it (I gotta do it) means *present* (you have to move or I have to do it), *past* (you had to move or I had to do it) *or both*, depending on situation?


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2009)

you are correct Roman. gotta move could easily mean right at this time, or depending on the character of the person involved, they will get to it when they feel like it........

hope this is not confusing as I am really trying to simplify and make it easy to understand


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## Thorlifter (Jan 12, 2009)

Your asking me, Roman? Hell, just because I am born and raised here doesn't mean I can speak this goofy language called English.


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## seesul (Jan 12, 2009)

Erich said:


> you are correct Roman. gotta move could easily mean right at this time, or depending on the character of the person involved, they will get to it when they feel like it........
> 
> hope this is not confusing as I am really trying to simplify and make it easy to understand



O.K. Erich,thanks, so it never means past, right?


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## seesul (Jan 12, 2009)

Erich said:


> you are correct Roman. gotta move could easily mean right at this time, or depending on the character of the person involved, they will get to it when they feel like it........
> 
> hope this is not confusing as I am really trying to simplify and make it easy to understand



Thank you Erich, so it never means past, right?


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## Erich (Jan 12, 2009)

you are correct Roman. if you would say move out of the way - that would be present tense: right now !, not later


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## seesul (Jan 12, 2009)

OK, thanks!


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## seesul (Jan 12, 2009)

Thorlifter said:


> Your asking me, Roman? Hell, just because I am born and raised here doesn't mean I can speak this goofy language called English.



O.K., so feel free to use my corner as well for asking the lingual questions8)


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## Messy1 (Jan 12, 2009)

This could turn into a very long thread if everyone posts questions about what we all do not know about the English language!


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## seesul (Jan 12, 2009)




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## ccheese (Jan 12, 2009)

Ahoj Roman !

The guy you need to talk to about English is Wojtek. We have been PM'ing
several times a day, for over a year. He learned English in school and uses
it in his profession, as an air traffic controller. The past year or so his
English has improved 200%. He still makes errors, but I try to correct him.
He gets into trouble talking to Dan [Les] because of his shortcuts in the
language. He must text a lot 'cause he uses a lot of shortcuts. He uses
"ur" quite often for your. And of course his vocabulary reaches to the ends
of the earth !! I'm sure Wojtek will help you with your engleeze...... If I
can help, don't hesitate to PM me. You must remember I only went to the
7th grade, so my math sucks.

I have noticed, on the forum, that lots of guys from English speaking counties
have trouble with "there" and "their". Just remember "there" denotes a place.
"Their" denotes possession.

Charles


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## seesul (Jan 13, 2009)

Ok Charles, thanks a lot!
I´ve also noticed few times perhabs 'she don´t know' instead of 'she doesn´t know' from English speaking guys...but that´s the same here with Czech language...not all the people know their own language...

Anyway- Wojtek- my credit!

I use my English everyday (or every day   ) as well, but I speak with Italians and that´s something else than US or British English...


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## evangilder (Jan 13, 2009)

Since we are on the subject, Roman, I have had multiple definitions for the Czech word "lomcevak". I have heard it is the word for headache, but I have also heard it means drunken stupor. Can you clarify that for me? I have no idea.


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## Marcel (Jan 13, 2009)

ccheese said:


> I have noticed, on the forum, that lots of guys from English speaking counties
> have trouble with "there" and "their". Just remember "there" denotes a place.
> "Their" denotes possession.
> 
> Charles



 just like here and hear, I noticed a lot of guys messing that up


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## Erich (Jan 13, 2009)

we've got so much muck in our vocabulary it is insane. yowser you can say the nut Almonds three different ways


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## seesul (Jan 13, 2009)

yep, a lot of English words have a more different meanings in Czech. Without knowing the whole sentence you´re not able to translate it.
German you can traslate almost word by word, it is more accurate and they don´t use a lot of idioms...but their grammar is more difficult than English...


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## seesul (Jan 13, 2009)

evangilder said:


> Since we are on the subject, Roman, I have had multiple definitions for the Czech word "lomcevak". I have heard it is the word for headache, but I have also heard it means drunken stupor. Can you clarify that for me? I have no idea.



For a drunken stupor we use a special word '*opice*'. Opice means 'monkey'.
So when you wanna say, 'he came back totaly drunk', you say,''vrátil se s *opicí'*- to the letter, 'he came back with monkey'.

As for lomcevak- in fact it should be 'lomcovak'- it means a very strong drink (shot of alcohol,very strong tee, very strong coffee) that shakes your body after you drink it out. The verb 'lomcovat' means 'to shake' in English. So 'lomcovak' is a noun created from the verb 'lomcovat'. 

Hope it´s clear...

P.S. as usually-the lesson N°1 is always about tipple, nasty words or parts of woman´s body


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## Messy1 (Jan 13, 2009)

I see a lot of misuse of your and you're, along with to and too. I'm sure I have been guilty of it myself.


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## evangilder (Jan 14, 2009)

seesul said:


> For a drunken stupor we use a special word '*opice*'. Opice means 'monkey'.
> So when you wanna say, 'he came back totaly drunk', you say,''vrátil se s *opicí'*- to the letter, 'he came back with monkey'.
> 
> As for lomcevak- in fact it should be 'lomcovak'- it means a very strong drink (shot of alcohol,very strong tee, very strong coffee) that shakes your body after you drink it out. The verb 'lomcovat' means 'to shake' in English. So 'lomcovak' is a noun created from the verb 'lomcovat'.
> ...



Thanks Roman, there is an aerobatic maneuver that was started in 1968 by a Czech pilot named Ladislav Bezák. His mechanic called it a Lomcevak, according to the story, as told to me. Of course, the Czech to English translation can always lead to misspellings and misunderstanding of the exact translations.


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## seesul (Jan 14, 2009)

Aha, I´ve never heard about him...here´s one of the notes I´ve found on him:
The name of Czechoslovakian aircraft manufacturer Zlin has been associated with excellence in aerobatic aircraft since the firm was founded in 1934. The first airplane to win a modern World Aerobatic championship was the two seat Zlin 226T Trener, at the hands of Ladislav Bezák, who flew one in the 1960 World Championships at Bratislava, Czechoslovakia in 1960.

btw, Zlin aeroplanes were produced in Otrokovice, 6 miles away fromZlin, where I live today...


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## Freebird (Jan 14, 2009)

Thorlifter said:


> Your asking me, Roman? Hell, just because I am born and raised here doesn't mean I can speak this goofy language called English.



Well I know you guys learn American, do they teach English there too?   

{Sorry couldn't resist...  }



ccheese said:


> I have noticed, on the forum, that lots of guys from English speaking counties
> have trouble with "there" and "their". Just remember "there" denotes a place.
> "Their" denotes possession.



I guess the problem is that *they're* not paying attention to grammar.



Messy1 said:


> I see a lot of misuse of your and you're, along with to and too. I'm sure I have been guilty of it myself.



English grammar is not taught as well as in days of yore.


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## seesul (Jan 31, 2009)

what does ''_pepper-upper_" mean?
To give you an idea about a sentence " In May of ’44, it was on to Iowa at the Sioux City Army Air Base for combat crew training. When we arrived, they welcomed us with a band.Guess they thought that we needed a _pepper-upper_ since we’re fixing to go over in a couple of months."

THX in advance!


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## ccheese (Jan 31, 2009)

seesul said:


> what does ''_pepper-upper_" mean?
> To give you an idea about a sentence " In May of ’44, it was on to Iowa at the Sioux City Army Air Base for combat crew training. When we arrived, they welcomed us with a band.Guess they thought that we needed a _pepper-upper_ since we’re fixing to go over in a couple of months."
> 
> THX in advance!




Could you have mis-understood the words ? Perhaps they said
"pick'er upper" ? A "pick'er upper" could be a good stiff drink.
[i.e something to lift your spirits]

Charles


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## seesul (Jan 31, 2009)

ccheese said:


> Could you have mis-understood the words ? Perhaps they said
> "pick'er upper" ? A "pick'er upper" could be a good stiff drink.
> [i.e something to lift your spirits]
> 
> Charles



Hi Charles, probably not. It´s copied from original file writen by one American... I´ll show you more from this article...

_My name is John Hiram Adair. I was born in a white frame house in Forreston, the youngest of five children, and the only son of Johnie and William Adair. We lived on a farm a few miles east of town on Bullard Hill, and were members of the Forreston Methodist Church.

During the summers I helped out Dad on the farm. I went to school there in Forreston until my junior year, when my family moved over to Avalon. My friends from school call me Johnny, but my family calls me “Johnsy”.

After graduating from Avalon High School, I went to Texas A&M College, where I joined the Army Reserve in December of ‘42. After one year in college, I was called to serve in June of ’43, and I reported for active duty in the Army Air Corps.

My initial training was at Sheppard Air Field in Wichita Falls, and after that there was more training in Florida and then in Kingman, Arizona at the Aerial Gunnery School. Like a lot of the other “country boys”, I was trained as a gunner, because we were better shots than those city boys. We did a lot of shooting at moving targets to hone our air-to-air firing skills.

In May of ’44, it was on to Iowa at the Sioux City Army Air Base for combat crew training. When we arrived, they welcomed us with a band. Guess they thought that we needed a pepper-upper since we’re fixing to go over in a couple of months.

I’ve been assigned to heavy bombardment and will be flying on a B-17 fortress. I’m with a good bunch of fellows and like them all fine so far. In my crew, we have four from Pennsylvania, one from Virginia, one from Massachusetts, one from Georgia, one from Wyoming, and the navigator is not with us yet. I hope he is from Texas.

At first I thought that I’d be the right waist gunner, but later I found out that I would have to take the tail guns. Being the tail-gunner was pretty rough. Known by some as “Tail End Charlie”, it was a difficult spot. It was a tight little space, with lots of vibration, noise, cold, flying for hours down on your knees, with your legs doubled under you, and looking out through my small plexiglas box window.

Before takeoff, all the gunners would gather in the radio room and then after we were airborne, we would make our way to our stations. As the tail-gunner, I had to crawl past the tail wheel, dragging my parachute behind me, and crawl on hands and knees into the tail. Once we made it up to altitude, I had to plug in my electric flight suit to keep from freezing. This was no place for someone with claustrophobia.

One Sunday evening as I was leaving the mess hall, I looked up just in time to see my good friend from home, James King, walking past. We went to the PX and had a long visit. I hadn’t seen him in 14 months, and it sure does a lot of good to meet someone that you used to run around with.

This Iowa countryside is some beautiful land for farming. The land is real black and these farmers have a corn patch for every cotton patch that we have back home. They have the nicest homes and more big barns and outhouses than Carter has liver pills.

I was supposed to make Corporal on the 15th of June, but it didn’t come through. My pilot messed up the paperwork. I sure could use the extra pay, it will be $28 a month more.

On the 20th of June, we went on a high altitude gunnery mission over Rapid City, South Dakota, and I got sick as a horse. Riding the tail is certainly no picnic. I would much rather be a waist gunner.

I wrote to my folks and my sisters at every opportunity and very much anticipated all their letters from home. We were due a furlough before we had to go overseas, and I really looked forward to the chance to visit home once more after all this time living in crowded barracks. My leave finally came at the last of July, but it flew by before I knew it.

The first week of August our group received our orders and headed out for Europe. It was a long journey with many stops along the way. Once I was locking the tail wheel and I inserted the crank too soon, and got a real blow on the chin. It bled a good bit, but an inch higher and it would have knocked out all my front teeth. Don’t think that it will leave a scar though.

Along the way, we spent some time in the far Northeast. On August 9th we went swimming in one of the lakes up there and the water was really cold. We even did a little fishing and caught some small trout. I’ll bet that there are a lot of lakes up there that have never even had a hook in them. It would have been swell if we could have stayed there a little longer.

By this time I had made Sergeant, and was drawing base pay, flying pay and a per diem for being away from my home base. I could take a lot of days like this at $10.30 a day, and I don’t care how long I’m gone at this kind of money.

After several days of hard flying we finally arrived at the Amendola Airfield near Foggia, Italy. We were now part of the 2nd Bomb Squadron, 2nd Bomb Group of the 15th Army Air Force.

It was pretty good here, enough to get by on anyway. I live in a tent with six other boys on my crew. We can fix it up in time so it’ll be pretty nice. The food is much better than I expected, in fact it’s better than lots of places that I trained in the States.

One day I went swimming in the Adriatic Sea, and I am getting a rather nice tan here on the east coast of Italy. We visited Foggia one day and its just awful, all the filth as such I’ve never seen before. Those people don’t have enough to eat either.

It was now the 19th of August and I haven’t been sent on a raid yet, but it won’t be long now from what I hear. We all looked forward to mail call more than anything else. Mail means a lot over here.

To my disappointment, my crew was split up as replacements for the other crews in the squadron. Oh well, I have no choice to make the best of the situation.

And then August 22nd came my first mission. I was flying tail-gunner aboard the “Tail End Charlie” on a mission to Odertal Oil Refinery in Germany. The pilot was Charles Beecham, and I didn’t get to know most of the other guy’s names... I had a real case of the butterflies.

It was an 8-hour mission. There were no fighters in sight, but there was lots of flak over the target. The other guys said that it was only moderate flak, but it sure seemed bad to me... We hit the target real good.

My 2nd mission came the very next morning aboard the “Lovely Lady” piloted by Lt. L. D. Campbell. The target that day was an industrial area at Vienna, Austria. This time there were German fighters making attacks through our formation. I’m not sure I hit anything though. At 400 mph, they were a lot harder to hit than the targets we shot at back in Arizona.

I had been told, and today I saw firsthand, that those German fighters really came after us tail-gunners. They knew that if they got the tail-gunner that our B-17s were just a sitting duck. I don’t recall ever having the jitters so bad in my life..._


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## Erich (Jan 31, 2009)

Roman am thinking Charles may be right on the spelling but in this very case it might be how do I say it except with a surfing statement, "they tried to stoke us man". or trying to pump us up - get us more enthusiastic about being in the service.

make sense ?


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## evangilder (Jan 31, 2009)

I haven't heard the term "pepper upper" either, but it is probably the same as picker upper in context. A way to boost the morale and spirits of the men.


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## seesul (Jan 31, 2009)

Yep guys, think the sence "to lift the spirit up" is correct, that makes a sense.
Just wanted to ask if pepper-upper is common slang expression.
I know the author so I´ll ask him by e-mail.

thx again


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## seesul (Jan 31, 2009)

Hmmm, just found this

pep•per-up•per


Pronunciation: (pep'ur-up'ur), [key]
—n. Informal.
1. something, as a food, beverage, or pill, that provides a quick but temporary period of energy and alertness.
2. something added to food to relieve blandness.
3. an experience that increases enthusiasm or zeal, as a pep talk. Also,pep'per up'per.

http://dictionary.infoplease.com/pepper-upper


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## seesul (Jan 31, 2009)

another question- abbreviation "PX"?

" One Sunday evening as I was leaving the mess hall, I looked up just in time to see my good friend from home, James King, walking past. We went to the PX and had a long visit. I hadn’t seen him in 14 months, and it sure does a lot of good to meet someone that you used to run around with. "

Sorry for teasing you but I´m working on translation of this 6 pages long article for our newspapers and the publisher wants to have it today (Sunday 1st). So that´s why I´m still up at 5:15 am here


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## GrauGeist (Feb 1, 2009)

Wasn't "Pepper-upper" from a Dr. Pepper soft drink ad campaign back in the '70s?

Anyway, PX means "Post Exchange" and I'm not sure if that's a unique term used by U.S. military, or if other militaries use it as well.


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## evangilder (Feb 1, 2009)

PX, or Post eXchange is where a member of the military can purchase about anything they need, from tooth paste to cameras and stereo gear. It is also known as Base eXchange, or BX for the Air Force.


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## seesul (Feb 1, 2009)

many thx fellas!


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## ppopsie (Feb 2, 2009)

Can I join Roman? I still love the sweet Blanik!


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## seesul (Feb 2, 2009)

if you help me with my Czenglish... 
sure, welcome!

Anyway, I´m not an expert on Blanik, but was it L-13? If so, a friend of mine, 85 years old now, has installed an engine on it some years ago...


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## ppopsie (Feb 2, 2009)

This was in 1979, I think. The L-13 was one of the high performance gliders of the time, having a very finely finished metal airframe with flush rivets all over. It was also my start of DIY English learning, with reading its maintenance manual and the parts manual as well as the flight handbook all in English.


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## seesul (Feb 3, 2009)

Are you from Japan or do you just live there?


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## ppopsie (Feb 3, 2009)

Am Japanese, was born in Tokyo.

My "scratchbuilding" of English has been just for my hobby; flying, modeling and cooking. But it is also useful for many other things and that is not bad.


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## seesul (Feb 3, 2009)

O.K., thank you!


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## seesul (Feb 12, 2009)

And then August 22nd came my first mission. I was flying tail-gunner aboard the “Tail End Charlie” on a mission to Odertal Oil Refinery in Germany. The pilot was Charles Beecham, and I didn’t get to know most of the other guy’s names... *I had a real case of the butterflies*.

What does the last sentence mean?


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## evangilder (Feb 12, 2009)

Nervous. It comes from a saying that one has butterflies in the stomach. It's a reference to how your stomach feels when you get nervous or apprehensive. Also scared.


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## seesul (Feb 12, 2009)

Many thanks Eric!


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## seesul (Feb 21, 2009)

This Iowa countryside is some beautiful land for farming. The land is real black and these farmers have a corn patch for every cotton patch that we have back home. They have the nicest homes and more big barns and outhouses *than Carter has liver pills*.

Which Carter does the author mean?


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## evangilder (Feb 22, 2009)

In the late 1800s, up until about the 1960s, there was a drug (medicine) called "Carters Little Liver Pills". It was used to treat headaches and general pains, like aspirin. Because it was so heavily advertised and well known, it was assumed that they had a lot of them. 

So that phrase was meant as a way of comparing the number of items with Carters Liver Pills, meaning there were a lot of what they compare it with. It is a more creative way of saying that there were a lot of barns and outhouses in Iowa.


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## FalkeEins (Feb 22, 2009)

seesul said:


> Just wanted to ask if pepper-upper is common slang expression.
> I know the author so I´ll ask him by e-mail.
> thx again



..the verb is 'to pep up' - ..there is no noun so we make one up, ie 'pepper-upper', ie something that peps you up... its not a word I've ever used


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## seesul (Feb 22, 2009)

evangilder said:


> In the late 1800s, up until about the 1960s, there was a drug (medicine) called "Carters Little Liver Pills". It was used to treat headaches and general pains, like aspirin. Because it was so heavily advertised and well known, it was assumed that they had a lot of them.
> 
> So that phrase was meant as a way of comparing the number of items with Carters Liver Pills, meaning there were a lot of what they compare it with. It is a more creative way of saying that there were a lot of barns and outhouses in Iowa.



Many thanks Eric for your perfect explanation! I just finished the translation of the article and am going to send it to the publisher...
Thx again for the help of all of you.

I just decided to make a Cambridge First Certificate in English. It´s a 2 years long course that is finished by the examination. The examination is accepted in whole European Union. I think it would be a shame not to use this chance because I love English but never learned it at school.
So it´s gonna be hard course but I just feel I need it...
Cambridge ESOL: First Certificate in English (FCE)


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## seesul (Feb 22, 2009)

FalkeEins said:


> ..the verb is 'to pep up' - ..there is no noun so we make one up, ie 'pepper-upper', ie something that peps you up... its not a word I've ever used



...aha, thx Neil!
Btw, how is Jean-Yves doing? Haven´t heard from him since 2 years ago I guess...say him hello from me please.


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## Wurger (Mar 1, 2009)

Really interesting thread Roman.I keep my eye on it.Keep asking....


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## seesul (Mar 1, 2009)

O.K. Something else now.
The phrase 'Tally Ho' meant:
'I´m atacking' or 'an enemy sighted'? On the net I found at most 'an enemy sighted' or 'an enemy in sight'


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## seesul (Mar 5, 2009)

'dead stick langing' means:
- emergency or crash landing in general or
- emergency or crash landing due to an engine failure (with a 'dead engine) ?


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## imalko (May 10, 2009)

Since I'm not native English speaker sometimes I have difficulty with understanding some abbreviations which I encounter from time to time on the forum.

Correct me if I'm wrong:
IMO = in my opinion
lol = lots of laughs
LMAO = ?

I would like to know what LMAO means.
Thanks.


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## evangilder (May 10, 2009)

LOL=Laughing out loud
LMAO=Laughing my a$$ off. 
ROFL=Rolling on the floor laughing

Tally Ho is what is stated when another aircraft is sighted. I have seen it used when forming up into a formation too. Two aircraft go out, then another two in pair that form up on the first pair. As the second element spots the lead element, they will often say 'Tally Ho'. 

Tally Ho is attributed to an old English phrase used in fox hunting and the term was used when a fox was spotted.

Dead stick landing refers to an airplane landing without engine power.


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## imalko (May 10, 2009)

Thanks for explanation Eric. There are also many abbreviations with TO in it. For example PTO etc?


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## evangilder (May 10, 2009)

In this case, it means Theater of Operations, so
PTO Pacific Theater of Operations
MTO Mediterranean Theater of Operations
ETO European Theater of Operations
and so on.

There are a ton of other things TO can mean, depending on the context of the conversation.


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## seesul (Jul 17, 2009)

I thank you too Eric!


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## seesul (Jul 22, 2009)

What does the word 'acting' mean in this sentence: 
"I was *acting* Group Operations Officer."
Substitute?

Thx!


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## Messy1 (Jul 22, 2009)

I believe so Seesul. Temporary, unofficial, 

*Acting*, adj.Temporarily assuming the duties or authority of another


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## seesul (Jul 22, 2009)

I thought so...many thx!


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## seesul (Aug 15, 2009)

...come undone...
What does this connection mean?

Perhaps 'when you come undone' - is it something like 'when you´re destroying me' ?


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## GrauGeist (Aug 15, 2009)

Can mean like a "nervous breakdown" or in some cases "to lose self control".

An example: "Joe just finished the 5 year restoration on his 1957 Chevy. The neighbor backed into it and Joe came undone!"


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## seesul (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks Dave!

Here´a small example- Duran Duran- Come undone 
_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiHk3PVmfVY_

Nine immaculate dream made breath and skin
I've been waiting for you
Signed with a home tattoo
happy birthday to you
Was created for you

Can't ever keep from falling apart
At the seams
Can I believe you're taking my heart
To pieces
Oh It'll take a little time
Might take a little crime
*To come undone now*
We'll try to stay blind
to the hope and fear outside
Hey child stay wilder
than the wind and blow me in to cry

Who do you need?
Who do you love?
*When you come undone* 

Meaning?


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## seesul (Sep 10, 2009)

trim tab = only the trim of the rudder of the elevator or all the moving part of the horizontal stabilizer?
Please, if there´s any pic available that would be fine. 
Thx.


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## GrauGeist (Sep 11, 2009)

Hi Roman, here's some photos of trim tabs on a P-51D.

Hope this helps!

IMG 1: Tail trim tab
IMG 2: Aileron trim tab full view
IMG 3: Aileron close up
IMG 4: Elevator trim tab


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## seesul (Sep 11, 2009)

Thank you David! So it is just a trim. I thought so and yo just confirmed it.


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## seesul (Oct 21, 2009)

One B-24 that went down close to my born town had a nose art 'Rough Cobb''.
What does the word 'Cobb' mean?


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## muller (Oct 21, 2009)

A cob is an ear of maize also called corn (what the lovely lady is sitting on). Cobb is also a surname, maybe the one of the crews name was Cobb?


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## seesul (Oct 21, 2009)

No,there was no crew member with such a name. But thank you!
Another opinion?


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## GrauGeist (Oct 21, 2009)

Roman,

Is it possible the crew onboard the Rough Cobb was an alternate crew?

There were occasions where crews were substituted for various reasons, such as R&R, injuries, illnesses and completions of thier tours.


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## seesul (Oct 22, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> Roman,
> 
> Is it possible the crew onboard the Rough Cobb was an alternate crew?
> 
> There were occasions where crews were substituted for various reasons, such as R&R, injuries, illnesses and completions of thier tours.



This really I don´t know Dave.
So Cobb doesn´t have any real meaning?


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## GrauGeist (Oct 23, 2009)

Well, the word Cobb on the bomber is spelled different than "Cob", as in a corn cob or the old name for a male swan or a pony. Way back in the past, people used corncobs to...uh, wipe thier rear-ends (before there was toilet paper)...not sure if they'd name thier Bomber after a "rough wipe", although Americans can have a twisted sense of humor, so anything's possible! 

I do know that the surname Cobb is used, there was a famous Baseball player named Ty Cobb. So now I am back to speculating if there was an original crew for that bomber who had a member with the name Cobb...


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## seesul (Oct 23, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> Well, the word Cobb on the bomber is spelled different than "Cob", as in a corn cob or the old name for a male swan or a pony. Way back in the past, people used corncobs to...uh, wipe thier rear-ends (before there was toilet paper)...not sure if they'd name thier Bomber after a "rough wipe", although Americans can have a twisted sense of humor, so anything's possible!
> 
> I do know that the surname Cobb is used, there was a famous Baseball player named Ty Cobb. So now I am back to speculating if there was an original crew for that bomber who had a member with the name Cobb...



Well, that really must have been a rough wipe


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## seesul (Oct 23, 2009)

Dave, don´t you think that this nose art 'Rough Cobb' could picture something like ehmm...what the woman uses when the man is not on hand...?


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## Shinpachi (Oct 23, 2009)

Oh, what a nice wit and humor they had!
Very interesting.


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## GrauGeist (Oct 23, 2009)

seesul said:


> Dave, don´t you think that this nose art 'Rough Cobb' could picture something like ehmm...what the woman uses when the man is not on hand...?








Uh...wow...my guess would be no...but that's just a guess


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## seesul (Oct 26, 2009)




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## KMeyrick (Oct 31, 2009)

hey Roman- 

Rough as a Cob is an old saying that comes from the roughness of the cob when done toileting. It refers to someone who is rather abrasive (slightly rude) in their actions and speaking... perfect to describe a rough and ready and take no crap bomber crew....


there was also a pilot William Cobb Bullock KIA on mission 263....
here's his info from the 2nd bomb group site (I hope it pastes OK)

Name Position CRW Date Aircraft MSN Target 
Bullock, William Cobb Co-Pilot HGL 440622 231473 216 Parma IT 

Bullock, William Cobb Co-Pilot SAD 440623 297652 217 Ploesti RO 

Bullock, William Cobb Co-Pilot CNB 440625 2107118 218 Sete FR 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440627 232048 220 Budapest HU 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot ERT WCB 440630 297159 221 Blechhammer GE 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440703 231789 223 Arad RO 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440704 231789 224 Brasov RO 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440706 297351 226 Verona IT 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440708 231473 228 Vosendorf AU 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440709 231473 229 Ploesti RO 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440713 231473 230 Verona IT 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440715 231473 232 Ploesti RO 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440719 2107118 235 Munich GE 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440721 231473 237 Brux CZ 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440725 231473 239 Linz AU 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot ERT WCB 440726 231473 240 Wiener Neustadt AU 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440728 231473 242 Ploesti RO 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440802 232048 244 Portes le Valence FR 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440806 231473 246 Le Pouzin FR 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot ERT WCB 440809 231473 248 Gyor HU 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440818 231877 254 Ploesti RO 

Bullock, William Cobb Co-Pilot CWS 440823 46359 257 Vienna AU 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot ERT WCB 440825 46359 259 Brno CZ 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot WCB 440827 46359 261 Blechhammer GE 

Bullock, William Cobb Pilot KIA WCB 440829 46359 263 Moravska Ostrava CZ


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## KMeyrick (Oct 31, 2009)

and lookie this.............

Shepard, Charles W 440823 257 Pilot 46359 CWS Vienna AU 

Bullock, William Cobb 440823 257 Co-Pilot 46359 CWS Vienna AU 

Dickinson, Loy A 440823 257 Navigator 46359 CWS Vienna AU 

Meyrick, Russell W 440823 257 Bomb/Togglier 46359 CWS Vienna AU 

Masters, Karl L 440823 257 Eng/Top Turret 46359 CWS Vienna AU 

Clayton, Wallace M 440823 257 Radio Operator 46359 CWS Vienna AU 

Martin, James R 440823 257 Ball Turret 46359 CWS Vienna AU 

Goldberg, Morris M 440823 257 Waist Gunner 46359 CWS Vienna AU 

Reynolds, R L 440823 257 Waist Gunner 46359 CWS Vienna AU 

Nelson, Maurice E 440823 257 Tail Gunner 46359 CWS Vienna AU


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## seesul (Oct 31, 2009)

Thank you Kelly! So Russell flew with Bullock as well. This machine crashed very close to Zlin where I live today. 2 days ago I sent you German documents on this crash.
How are you and your family btw?
I´m wondering you were able to copy all the dates from their database in such a nice way. Everytime I wanted to post something from the database just a mess appeared...


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## KMeyrick (Oct 31, 2009)

we're great. The kids are out trick or treating right now. Been busy, but great photos of everything- barely time to check email lately- have a training I'm doing on Monday so a lot of planning.

As for the cut and paste.... hate to say it, but all I did was highlight, copied and pasted it in the reply with fingers crossed....wasn't sure what it was going to look like and was quite surprised when it pasted like it did!!

Still burning photo disks and making cards for everyone... should be in the mail soon


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## seesul (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi Kelly,
3:16 am here and I´m still up.
Good to hear you family is O.K.


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## KMeyrick (Oct 31, 2009)

For the love of pete. go to sleep!!!

How is Tommy liking school??


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## seesul (Nov 19, 2009)

The attackers launched rockets, then converged on the formation from 3:00 to 9:00 o' clock in
waves of 4 to 10, *line abreast*, and in "V" formations of 10 to 20, firing 20mm cannons and machine
guns, and brazenly flying through the formation as they completed their passes.

What does the connection 'line abreast' mean? Could anyone draw a picture of the formation please?


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## wheelsup_cavu (Nov 20, 2009)

Here are a couple of pictures for you. 


Wheels


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## seesul (Nov 20, 2009)

That´s great, thank you mate!


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## Lucky13 (Nov 24, 2009)

Great thread guys! I learned my English in school as well, from the forth grade and continued until the last day in school in ninth grade, after that, the last two years I didn't have English in class. 

Still learning after *mumbles* years....


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## Lucky13 (Nov 24, 2009)

Actually, if I may butt in here Roman, in your thread.....

Why the difference in the English and American spelling sometimes, like colour, color, aluminium, aluminum etc?


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## seesul (Nov 24, 2009)

Feel free to to ask the questions here Jan and the others!
Btw, your English is excellent compared to mine. I´ve never learned English in the school but this forum helps me a lot. Especially Dan´s (LesofPrimus) vocabulary...it came in handy when I was in USA


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## KMeyrick (Nov 24, 2009)

Lucky13 said:


> Actually, if I may butt in here Roman, in your thread.....
> 
> Why the difference in the English and American spelling sometimes, like colour, color, aluminium, aluminum etc?



there is absolutely no good reason for the difference.

That's like asking why bread is spelled with /ea/ and says the short /e/ sound, yet bead has /ea/ with the long /a/ sound.

English is a stupid language. there are more exceptions to the spelling rules than there are words that actually fit the rule.


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 24, 2009)

Webster (the dictionary guy) actually had a lot to do with the adaption of "or" vs "our" in the US. That's they way he spelled them and as the main dictionary writer in the US, that's they way it was taught in school.


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## seesul (Nov 24, 2009)

Hi Kelly,

how are you and your family doin´? Mike was on visit at you few days ago, right?


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## GrauGeist (Nov 24, 2009)

I was told once, a long time ago, that the ommission of extra vowels in the American dialect is a form of language evolution. Much like actual English has over the years. The less letters in a word, the less effort to write...

If you've ever read any works by Shakespeare (or other works from the era), you'll see that the "Olde Englishe" of Merry Old England had many extra vowels that are no longer seen in modern English.

It's kind of the same thing with words like tomato. Typically, Americans pronounce it "tuh-may-toe" (it's "tuhmay-duh" in New Jersey) and the English pronounce it "toe-mah-toe".


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## seesul (Nov 25, 2009)

What is the exact meaning of the following phrases?:

*Here you go
Here we go
There we go*

Here you go I use when I give something to someone but am not sure if it´s correct.


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## GrauGeist (Nov 25, 2009)

seesul said:


> What is the exact meaning of the following phrases?:
> 
> *Here you go
> Here we go
> ...


*Here You Go:* - I'm handing you a nice cold beer...
*Here We Go:* - Can be used in a number of ways, like the moment we lift off when we go flying, or at the point when something is about to start happening.
*There we go:* - Can be used like when you lift your child up or you've just hit the bullseye in a game of darts...


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## seesul (Nov 25, 2009)

Thank you Dave!


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## Jan7 (Nov 25, 2009)

seesul said:


> ......Feel free to to ask the questions here Jan and the others!.......



..." blew a 30-foot (9 m) hole in the Royal Oak and as a result she flooded and quickly capsized." .... 

"Royal Oak was anchored at Scapa Flow in Orkney, Scotland when she became the ...... She was attacked in the Inland Sea on 19 March 1945 by carrier aircraft from ..... "

Here are eixamples of the strangest things I've read in English: _*The kind of boats/ships, is female!*_.......In Spain, is male/neutral.





Jan.


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## A4K (Nov 25, 2009)

Aircraft and other things are 'girls' too in English Jan! 
A New Zealand poem about a treefeller, for example:

Jack stood on the jigger board,
The tree she gave a crack.
She was his only trigger,
And the bastard she fell back.

(This is unusual in that 'bastard' (masculine) is used with 'she' - the feminine should be 'bitch')

Evan


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## evangilder (Nov 25, 2009)

In American English, ships and aircraft are usually referred to in the feminine form or neutral. I have never heard anyone refer to either in a masculine context.

Besides:
Airplanes and women are alike in that they both have cockpits.


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## Marcel (Nov 25, 2009)

In Dutch it's the same, ships are female. They always getr female names and referred to in a female way. Strangely enough not so in German there it's "das boot", "das" referring to the neutral gender of boot (boat).


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## Messy1 (Nov 25, 2009)

A few centuries ago, I think it was considered bad luck not to have a womans figure somewhere on the ship, such as the bow.
Might lend to ships being considered female.


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 25, 2009)

evangilder said:


> In American English, ships and aircraft are usually referred to in the feminine form or neutral. I have never heard anyone refer to either in a masculine context.
> 
> Besides:
> Airplanes and women are alike in that they both have cockpits.



 and expensive to maintain!


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## GrauGeist (Nov 25, 2009)

evangilder said:


> Besides:
> Airplanes and women are alike in that they both have cockpits.


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## evangilder (Nov 25, 2009)

It's the 3 F's of finance:

If it flies, floats, or fornicates, it is going to cost you a lot of money. And some warbird owners swear their airplanes are cheaper than their spouses, or ex-spouses.


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 25, 2009)

LMAO NICE!!!!!!


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## GrauGeist (Nov 25, 2009)

Aint that the truth!


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## wheelsup_cavu (Nov 27, 2009)

Too true Eric.


Wheels


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## imalko (Feb 2, 2010)

I've noticed on more than one occasion that our UK friends here on the forum sometimes refer to each other with "Dogsbody". I suspect it has something to do with RAF lingo, but would like to know what it means exactly.


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## evangilder (Feb 2, 2010)

Igor, from Wiki:

A dogsbody, or less commonly dog robber in the Royal Navy, is a junior officer, or more generally someone who does drudge work. A rough American equivalent would be a "gofer", "scutpuppy", or "grunt".


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## B-17engineer (Feb 2, 2010)

imalko said:


> I've noticed on more than one occasion that my UK friends here on the forum sometimes refer to each other with "Dogsbody". I suspect it has something to do with RAF lingo, but would like to know what it means exactly.



Was going to PM one of our friends from across the pond to ask the same thing! 

And 

Thanks Eric!

Now I'm going to call people scutpuppy.


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## seesul (Jun 25, 2010)

During his practice after takeoff, he did a *shondell* with the wing up to the left and then a shondell to the right, ascending, descending and landing.

Our pilot had to make a *shondelle* to the right to avoid the burning plane.

What does shondell (e) mean?


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 25, 2010)

Hi Roman, this is what I found Aerobatics Figures

*Basic: *Chandelle is defined as a maximum performance climbing turn through 180 degrees while maintaining a constant turn rate.

*Way too much detail:* The idea is that this is a "plan ahead" maneuver. You first establish a medium bank depending on the performance of your aircraft. Then a smooth pullup is started. The angle of bank stays constant during the first 90 degrees of turn, while the pitch angle increases steadily. At the 90 degree point the plane has the maximum pitch angle which should be close to the critical angle of attack. During the second 90 degrees of turn, the pitch angle is held constant, while the bank angle is smoothly decreased to reach 0 degrees of bank at 180 degrees of turn with the airspeed close to the stall speed. The plane should not settle during the last part of the maneuver and the recovery. The decreasing bank angle during the second half of the Chandelle will maintain a constant turn rate together with the decreasing airspeed. The turn needs to be kept coordinated by applying the right amount of rudder. A Chandelle to the left is quite different than one to the right because of the ever increasing amount of p-factor in the second half of the maneuver.


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## evangilder (Jun 25, 2010)

IN simpler terms, a maneuver that is almost guaranteed to make your queasy, newbie passenger lose his lunch.


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## seesul (Jun 26, 2010)

Thank you friends!


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 26, 2010)

Evan's explanation is easier to follow


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## seesul (Jun 27, 2010)

I know, I needed a vocabulary for yours. Evan´s was clear


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## vikingBerserker (Jun 27, 2010)




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## rochie (Jun 27, 2010)

Igor i've nicknamed Terry Dogsbody after Douglas Bader's RAF call sign after he made a joke to me about it would be easier if he had his legs removed and replaced with wheels one day when his legs were acting up from to much walking


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## imalko (Jun 27, 2010)

I was wondering why you nicknamed Terry like that. Thanks for the explanation Karl. Now, what's the story behind "Red Two" nickname? Was it Bader's wing man call sign or something like that?


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## rochie (Jun 28, 2010)

imalko said:


> I was wondering why you nicknamed Terry like that. Thanks for the explanation Karl. Now, what's the story behind "Red Two" nickname? Was it Bader's wing man call sign or something like that?



yep thats it


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## seesul (Jul 12, 2010)

From the book http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/stories/one-more-book-about-15th-usaaf-last-roll-call-23651.html
_'Our *brogans* would not fit on over the electric booties, but we kept them nearby. If we went down, the plan was to snap our *brogans* to our parachute harness. Our feet would be in sad shape if we went down and only had our booties to trudge around the countryside in.'_

GI shoes?

Thank you!


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## seesul (Jul 13, 2010)

No clue guys?


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## GrauGeist (Jul 13, 2010)

Roman, I'm pretty sure that Brogans they were referring to were a type of military boots that looked more like a shoe. 

Brogans were worn during the American Civil War (1861-1865) and if I remember right, were also called "Jefferson Bootees", since they were only ankle-high.


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## seesul (Jul 13, 2010)

GrauGeist said:


> Roman, I'm pretty sure that Brogans they were referring to were a type of military boots that looked more like a shoe.
> 
> Brogans were worn during the American Civil War (1861-1865) and if I remember right, were also called "Jefferson Bootees", since they were only ankle-high.



Thank you Dave, I also think Mr. Tucker means GI shoes in this sentence. But why does he write ´over the boots´ instead of ´into the boots?´


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## N4521U (Jul 13, 2010)

By definition found, Brogan is an Irish slang for shoe. So this makes sense that boots in the Civil War would be called Brogans. The crew in the USAAF wore electric or battery powered booties for high altitude, low temperatures. Regular boots were, I think too small to fit over these. So is why they would attach their Brogans to the parachute to put on after landing. Yes? Bill


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## seesul (Jul 13, 2010)

N4521U said:


> By definition found, Brogan is an Irish slang for shoe. So this makes sense that boots in the Civil War would be called Brogans. The crew in the USAAF wore electric or battery powered booties for high altitude, low temperatures. Regular boots were, I think too small to fit over these. So is why they would attach their Brogans to the parachute to put on after landing. Yes? Bill



Yes Bill, thanks also to you!


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## seesul (Sep 15, 2010)

In the MACRs you can find:

SWA - Seriously Wounded In Action
LWA - Lightly Wounded In Action
and
SLA - seriously injured in action
LIA - lightly injured in action

From here MACR Abbreviations

What is the difference please?


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## seesul (Sep 17, 2010)

No idea guys?


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## N4521U (Sep 17, 2010)

I am thinking "wounded" would be by Direct enemy action, gun shot, flak.

"Injured" could be by an accident, like plane crash. car crash. falling object.

? You suppose?


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## seesul (Sep 17, 2010)

N4521U said:


> I am thinking "wounded" would be by Direct enemy action, gun shot, flak.
> 
> "Injured" could be by an accident, like plane crash. car crash. falling object.
> 
> ? You suppose?



A friend of mine here told me the same like you so I just wanted to be sure.
Think you´re right.
Thank you!


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## seesul (Sep 21, 2010)

What is the difference please?

Thank you!


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## seesul (Sep 23, 2010)

In few sentences I´ve noted the word 'Moi' in the meaning of 'me'.
Where does it come from?


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## rochie (Sep 23, 2010)

Moi is french for Me Roman


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## seesul (Sep 23, 2010)

Thank you Karl, they use is sometime in English written articles as well..why?


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## rochie (Sep 23, 2010)

seesul said:


> Thank you Karl, they use is sometime in English written articles as well..why?



probably to sound clever


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## seesul (Sep 24, 2010)

Maybe-) Here perhaps is one example. 
_L to R - Mojmir Baca, Roman Susil, Loy Dickinson, *Moi*, Czech Republic. All attending Memoriam. _
This text was written by Loy Dickinson (my friend´s Joe navigator) after his visit of our town in 2004.
You can find a picture with this text here AIR BATTLE OVER THE WHITE CARPTHIAN MOUNTAINS you just have to scroll the page down.
Just wondering...


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## seesul (Aug 6, 2011)

'Balbo' during an airshow.
What does it mean and where come it from?

Thx!


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## evangilder (Aug 7, 2011)

Balbo was a common term in the late 1930s and early 1940s to describe any large formation of aircraft. It was named after the Italian fascist flying ace Italo Balbo who led a series of large aircraft formations in record-breaking flights to promote Italian aviation in the 1930s.

During the Battle of Britain the term was used for the Big Wings that were based at RAF Duxford.

This is from Wikipedia


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## Mustang nut (Aug 7, 2011)

Generally on this side of the pond a wound bleeds so a bullet wound is both an injury and a wound but a broken leg is an injury.

Photo reconnaisance uses a camera tactical recon uses weapons too, its armed recon.

Moi is sometimes used in English in place of "who me" if accused of something


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## seesul (Aug 7, 2011)

Thank you Eric and Mustang nut!


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## Mustang nut (Aug 7, 2011)

seesul said:


> Thank you Eric and Mustang nut!



Seesul

with regard to language and the military many words a of French origin because wartime aviation was born in France reconaisance just means recognise and reconnoitre means inspect the RAF first saw action as the AAC the first world war in France. A mission is called a "Sortie" because in french Sortie means exit or departed. When a british pilot asked a french guy where a colleague was, when on a mission he was told "I'll et sortie" or "he has left" so "sortie" became a word for a mission.


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## seesul (Aug 7, 2011)

Thank you again. Yes, sortie was one of the words I was always wondering about.


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## Mustang nut (Aug 7, 2011)

seesul said:


> Thank you again. Yes, sortie was one of the words I was always wondering about.


A word that always confused me was "mess" as in officers mess. Mess in French is the Catholic religious service AND the place that officers and other ranks eat. In English the religious service is "mass" but the cantine is the Mess, in any other usage "mess" means disorganisation and chaos.


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## seesul (Nov 14, 2011)

In a different WW2 movies and war games I can hear 'sarge' when some soldier talks to someone else as 'hey sarge' perhaps.
Does it mean 'sergeant'?
Thx.


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## evangilder (Nov 14, 2011)

Yes, Roman, it is short for Sergeant. Military members almost always shorten names. My last name is Van Gilder, but I was almost always called "Van", unless in my shop. There were three of of Van ... last names.


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## seesul (Nov 14, 2011)

Thx Eric!


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## seesul (Nov 21, 2011)

does it always stricktly mean husband or wife, or can it be just a next of kin as brother or sister?

Thx


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## pbfoot (Nov 21, 2011)

seesul said:


> does it always stricktly mean husband or wife, or can it be just a next of kin as brother or sister?
> 
> Thx


just wife or long term partner


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## seesul (Nov 21, 2011)

Thank you very much pb!


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## seesul (Dec 14, 2011)

what does it mean?


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## pbfoot (Dec 14, 2011)

seesul said:


> what does it mean?


Well done , Congratulations or something like that


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## evangilder (Dec 14, 2011)

It can also mean praise for something achieved.


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## seesul (Dec 14, 2011)

thx guys, and any clue where comes this expresion from?


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## seesul (Dec 14, 2011)

I got it Kudos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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