# best twin/triple engined bomber at outbreak world war II



## Vincenzo (Feb 5, 2008)

Hi
in http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/av...your-operational-airforce-look-like-2288.html
i want post my dream bombers but i try difficult tell what's the best twin/triple engined bomber at time, and more difficul is the best exported.
so i thinked see what think the community.
for remember this is a list, maybe incomplete, of twin/triple engined bombers at time, i exclude biplane:

Blenheim IV (and earlier) Max speed 428 km/h, empty weight 4.4 tons max weight 6.6 metric tons, internal bomb load 454 kg, engines power 1840 hp
Hampden I 409 km/h 5.3/8.5 tons 1814 kg 1630 hp 
Wellington IA (and earlier) 377 Km/h 8.4/12.7 tons 2041 kg 1630 hp
Whitley IVA (and earlier) 370 Km/h 8.8/15.2 tons 3175 kg 2140 hp (data for V)
Hudson I 396 km/h 5.3/7.9 tons 454 kg 2200 hp
Martin 139WH3a (and earlier) 388 km/h 4.7/? 1025 kg 2000 hp 
B 18A (and earlier) 347 km/h 7.4/12.6 tons 1996 kg 2000 hp
Ki 2-II 283 km/h ?/4.7 tons 300 kg 1100 hp
Ki 21-I 432 km/h 4.7/7.9 tons 1000 kg 1700 hp (data for Ia) 
G3M2 374 km/h 5/8 tons (only external) 2150 hp (data for model 22)
SB Bis 3 (and earlier) 445 km/h 4.5/7.5 tons 600 kg 1920 hp 
DB 3 M 87 engine (and earlier) 439 km/h 5/9.4 tons 1000kg 1900 hp
He 111H2 (and earlier) 405 km/h 7.7/14 tons 2000 kg 2200 hp
Do 23 (and earlier) 260 km/h 5.6/9.2 tons 1000kg 1500 hp
Do 17Z2 (and earlier) 424 km/h 5.2/8.8 tons 1000 kg 2000 hp
Ju 52/3m g3e 277 km/h 5.7/10.5 tons 1500 kg 2175 hp
Ju 86E4 (and earlier) 375 km/h 5.2/8.2 tons 1000 kg 1740 hp
Ju 88A0 450 km/h 7.7/12.5 tons 1400 kg 2420 hp (data for A1)
Amiot 143 295 km/h 5.5/10.4 tons 900 kg 1740 hp
MB 131 385 km/h 6/8.6 tons 800 kg 1740 hp
MB 200 285 km/h 4.5/7.3 tons 1200 kg 1740 hp
MB 210 320 km/h 6.4/10.2 tons 1400 kg 1820 hp
LeO 451 495 km/h 6.4/11.4 tons 1500 kg 2280 hp
Potez 540 320 km/h 3.8/6.9 tons 500 kg 1580 hp
Potez 633 440 km/h 2.9/4.3 tons 400 kg 1340 hp 
Ca 135 363 km/h 5.6/8.5 tons 1600 kg 1650 hp
Ca 133 280 km/h 4/6.6 tons 1000 kg 1410 hp
Ba 88 490 km/h 4.6/6.7 tons 1000 kg 2000 hp
S.M. 79 I 430 km/h 6.8/10.5 tons 1250 kg 2370 hp 
S.M. 81 336 km/h 6.8/10.5 tons 2000 kg 2340 hp(data for version with alfa 126 engines)
Z. 1007 430 km/h 8.2/12.2 tons 800 kg 2475 hp
B.R. 20 432 km/h 6.4/9.9 tons 1600 kg 2000 hp
PZL 37B (and earlier) 412 km/h 4.9/9.1 2400 kg 1940 hp
T V 417 km/h 4.7/7.2 tons 1000 kg 1850 hp

february 7th i delete from list all aircraft with less 400 kg of bomb load or a speed under 250 km/h

source for data:
british planes: British Aircraft of World War II
american planes: American Military Aircraft
The Glenn L. Martin Maryland Aviation Museum
japanese army planes: Axis History Forum :: Info: Early Japanese Army Air Force Aircraft
japanese navy plane: WWII Imperial Japanese Navy Aircraft
soviet planes: Russian Aviation Museum
old dornier bombers: VAR. Aviation WWII.Bombers
Dornier Do 17: Dornier Do-17 Depot
Junkers Ju 52/3m: WW2 Warbirds: the Junkers Ju 52 Tante Ju - Frans Bonn
Junkers Ju 86:
Encyklopedia broni - Niemcy - samoloty - Junkers Ju 86 : samolot bombowy.
Junker Ju 88A-1
WW2 Warbirds: the Junkers Ju 88 - Frans Bonn
French planes: Aviafrance, un siècle d'aviation française - Les machines
Italian planes: Generale B.A. Enrico Pezzi - Omaggio alla memoria
Z. 1007 I serie: Cant Z.1007 Alcione
P 32 II: Aerei Italiani - Scheda Tecnica - Piaggio P.32 II
SM 81:
Savoia Marchetti S.M.81 - 
PZL 37: P.Z.L P.37 Los War and Game
T V: War over Holland - May 1940: the Dutch struggle
G I: Luchtmacht: Fokker G.I (G.1) [De Slag om de Grebbeberg]


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## Arsenal VG-33 (Feb 5, 2008)

Hard to tell for me. It's a long list and there are several very good aircraft to choose from. Must we pick only one?

My favorite 3 are:

LeO 451
He-111
Wellington


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## Thorlifter (Feb 5, 2008)

I must admit I'm not too familiar with most of those on the bottom part of your list, but if I had to pick only one, I'd go with the Ju-88.


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## comiso90 (Feb 5, 2008)

LeO footage:


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r03Q_Q2DlCc_

.


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## Freebird (Feb 6, 2008)

Arsenal VG-33 said:


> Hard to tell for me. It's a long list and there are several very good aircraft to choose from. Must we pick only one?
> 
> My favorite 3 are:
> 
> ...



The He 111 the Wellington? What about these 2 Arsenal?  

I still think its a pity that the RAF FF never really got to use some of the excellent French aircraft in the early war years....


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## Graeme (Feb 6, 2008)

From that list I would select the PZL P.37 Los.





PZL.37 ÅoÅ› - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The more advanced PZL.49 Mis had even more potential.


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## Arsenal VG-33 (Feb 6, 2008)

freebird said:


> The He 111 the Wellington? What about these 2 Arsenal?
> 
> I still think its a pity that the RAF FF never really got to use some of the excellent French aircraft in the early war years....




freebird,

The MB 174 is an excellent aircraft, but it wasn't on the list. Besides, the MB 174 was a smaller, multi-role plane. Had it abeen a choice of "best multi-role aircraft", I would have picked the 174 at once. I tend to view the Potez 630-633 series aircraft in much the same way.

For some reason, I've always liked the Wellington. Something about it's construction thats very interesting. I don't think it got the credit it deserved during early-war actions.


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## Vincenzo (Feb 6, 2008)

MB 174 wasn't in the list because wasn't operational in september 1939. 
if a plane was operational at time can be choice, also if isn't in the list, i added it.


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## Thorlifter (Feb 6, 2008)

Well, it looks like I have more homework to do. Besides Wiki, do you know a good site to learn about these other aircraft?


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 6, 2008)

Ju 88 for me....

I think it was the fastest and carried the best bomb load out of all listed.


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## Freebird (Feb 6, 2008)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Ju 88 for me....
> 
> I think it was the fastest and carried the best bomb load out of all listed.



Was the LeO 451 not superior in both to the Ju-88? The only advantage that the Ju-88 had was that it was multi-role.


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 6, 2008)

I show the Ju 88 with a top speed of over 300 mph with a 5000 lb bomb load. The LeO 451 seemed to have about the same defensive armament and its max bomb load was about 2000 pounds less - of couse all this depended on range and mission profile.


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## Vincenzo (Feb 6, 2008)

for true Leo 451 is fastest of Ju 88A1, and for bomb load i'm not sure but maybe best also the He 111H2.

if my info are in right. the fastest in the list are: Leo 451, Ba 88, Fokker G I (maybe not in this order, they are that run over 450 km/h). see the many trouble of Ba 88 and the small bomb load of fokker (and it's the slowest of three), i think that Leo 451 is surely fastest bomber (2/3 engines) in outbreak of WW II.
for usefull load (bomb and fuel) it is more complicated, source discordant, aircraft weights range is large (max from ~4 to ~15 tons, empty from ~2.5 to ~9 tons) maybe usefull divide in light and medium bomber for a comparation.


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 6, 2008)

I show the Ju 88 A1 with a top speed of 510 km/h at 4,750 m (317 mph at 15,600 ft).


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## Vincenzo (Feb 6, 2008)

what's the source of speed of ju 88a1?
AFAIK the max speed is 450 km/h


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 6, 2008)

Vincenzo said:


> what's the source of speed of ju 88a1?
> AFAIK the max speed is 450 km/h



Wiki shows speeds over 450km/h but they may be confusing variants but list sources.

Performance
Maximum speed: 510 km/h at 4,750 m (317 mph at 15,600 ft) 
Range: 2,108 km (1,310 mi) 
Service ceiling 9,080 m (29,800 ft) 
Rate of climb: m/s (ft/min) 

Dressel, Joachim and Griehl Manfred. Bombers of the Luftwaffe. London: Arms and Armour (DAG Publications), 1994. ISBN 1-85409-140-9. 
Feist, Uwe. Junkers Ju 88 in action. Carrollton,Texas: Squadron/Signal Publications, 1974. ISBN 3-79090-026-5. 
Taylor, John W.R. "Junkers Ju 88." Combat Aircraft of the World from 1909 to the present. New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1969. ISBN 0-425-03633-2. 
Verlag, Kaiser. Die großen Luftschlachten des Zweiten Weltkriegs: Flugzeuge - Erfolge - Niederlagen (in German). Gebunden, Germany: Neuer Kaiser Vlg GmbH, 1994. ISBN 3-7043-6029-5. 
Winchester, Jim. "Junkers Ju 88". Aircraft of World War II. London: Grange Books, 2004. ISBN 1-84013-639-1. 


This site shows just under 300 mph

WW2 Warbirds: the Junkers Ju 88 - Frans Bonn

In either case evidence still shows it was faster than the Leo 451


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## Vincenzo (Feb 6, 2008)

wiki alone is not a source all can write on, 
the Bonn site report 450 km/h for A1


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## Marcel (Feb 6, 2008)

The GI was merely a fighterbomber instead of a bomber. The T.V was not very good, being quite slow (430 km/h) and no selfsealing tanks. 
The wellington was quite good with a goos range and sturdy, but had lack of defensive armament.
I would go with the J88 or the He111 although the PZL was quite good as well.


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## Arsenal VG-33 (Feb 6, 2008)

One of my reference books, "_Rand McNally Encyclopedia of Military aircraft - 1914 to present_" shows the LeO.451 superior to the Ju-88A1 in speed, bomb load and range.


*Ju-88A1*---------*LeO.451*

Max. speed: 280mph vs. 307mph
Max Bombs: 3,960lbs vs. 4,400lbs
Max range: 1,056 miles vs. 1,430 miles


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 6, 2008)

Arsenal VG-33 said:


> One of my reference books, "_Rand McNally Encyclopedia of Military aircraft - 1914 to present_" shows the LeO.451 superior to the Ju-88A1 in speed, bomb load and range.
> 
> 
> *Ju-88A1*---------*LeO.451*
> ...





Interesting - I wonder if we could find a POH for each aircraft and compare. Outside the "Wiki" reference I show the max speeds on both aircraft varying with bomb load and altitude.
BTW "Wiki" shows the 451 at 300 mph @ 13,255'. It also lists these sources;

Danel, Raymond and Cuny, Jean LeO 45, Amiot 350 et autre B4 Docavia n°23, Editions Larivière 
Danel, Raymond and Cuny, Jean L'aviation française de bombardement et de renseignement 1918-1940 Docavia n°12, Editions Larivière 
Ehrengardt, Christian-Jacques Le bombardement français, tome I: 1939/1940, Aéro-Journal Hors-Série N°5 
Notice descriptive et d'utilisation de l'avion LeO. 451 à moteurs Gnome et Rhône 14N, SNCASE, 1939


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## Arsenal VG-33 (Feb 6, 2008)

The only other source I have on the LeO.451 is "_Avions de la 2e Guerre Mondiale - Profiles et Histoire_" by *G. Apostelo *and *G. Bignozzi*. (Part of the Hachette miliray series)

The only other technical mention I find is that the Leo.451 set a high speed of approx. 370 mph empty and in a shallow dive.


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 6, 2008)

Arsenal VG-33 said:


> The only other source I have on the LeO.451 is "_Avions de la 2e Guerre Mondiale - Profiles et Histoire_" by *G. Apostelo *and *G. Bignozzi*. (Part of the Hachette miliray series)
> 
> The only other technical mention I find is that the Leo.451 set a high speed of approx. 370 mph empty and in a shallow dive.


That sound about right for that aircraft - keep in mind that a Ju 88, early B-25 and probably He 111 could probably do the same.


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## Vincenzo (Feb 6, 2008)

i remember that wiki article is not a reliable source, also if there is a bibliography. any can write in with no connections with bibliography list.


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## ssnider (Feb 6, 2008)

Heres what Combat Aircraft of th world says: 306 mph at 13,125 ft. which altitude it attained in 10 min., 311 mph at 18,000 ft., Normal crusing speed 252 mph. range: 1,040 at 292 mph and 1,800 at 230 mph. service ceiling 27,000 ft.


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## Soren (Feb 6, 2008)

According to my sources the top speed of the Ju-88A1 is 450 km/h, 475 km/h and later 500 km/h being reached in 1940. 

The final Ju-88, the G-7b, had a top speed of 626 km/h with MW-50 and a cruise speed of 560 km/h.

Anyway in 1939 the LeO 451 was an impressive a/c, however whilst being superior in many ways to the Ju-88A1 it nonetheless didn't pocess anywhere near as good a handling.


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## Vincenzo (Feb 6, 2008)

you talk of later variants of Ju 88A or "modified" A1?


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## davparlr (Feb 6, 2008)

My source shows 460 km/hr at 5500 m. for the Ju88A-1.


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## drgondog (Feb 6, 2008)

Vincenzo said:


> Hi
> in http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/av...your-operational-airforce-look-like-2288.html
> i want post my dream bombers but i try difficult tell what's the best twin/triple engined bomber at time, and more difficul is the best exported.
> so i thinked see what think the community.
> ...



How about a B-17 on three engines? Failing that I would favor the Ju 88


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## Soren (Feb 6, 2008)

The top speed of the Ju-88A1 is 450 km/h according to my sources Vincenzo. The A-4 entering service in the beginning of 1940 had a top speed of 500 km/h.


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## Graeme (Feb 6, 2008)

Jerzy B. Cynk (Polish Aircraft 1893-1939) gives the P.37 a maximum (internal) bomb load of 5,686 lbs. He believes that is was somewhat unique, in that it had a "disposable load" equal to its empty weight. 

Normal range with 4,850 lbs of bombs was 932 miles.
Maximum range without bombs was an impressive 2,796 miles.

Maximum speed at 11,154 ft, 276 mph.
Maximum speed at sea level 242mph.


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## Freebird (Feb 6, 2008)

Soren said:


> According to my sources the top speed of the Ju-88A1 is 450 km/h, 475 km/h and later 500 km/h being reached in 1940.
> 
> The final Ju-88, the G-7b, had a top speed of 626 km/h with MW-50 and a cruise speed of 560 km/h.
> 
> *Anyway in 1939 the LeO 451 was an impressive a/c,* however whilst being superior in many ways to the Ju-88A1 it nonetheless didn't pocess anywhere near as good a handling.



I agree Soren, if it is used only as a bomber I would take the LeO 451 over the Ju-88 A, but of course the Ju-88 was designed to be used as multi role, (NF etc), which is a big advantage. Also I think that in low level performance (attack bomber) the Ju-88 would be superior, am I right?


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## Vincenzo (Feb 7, 2008)

For load the best maybe He 111 and Whitley (over 5 tons bombs and fuel)


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## Vincenzo (Feb 9, 2008)

i add a little info on planes in bomber list


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## Soren (Feb 10, 2008)

freebird said:


> I agree Soren, if it is used only as a bomber I would take the LeO 451 over the Ju-88 A, but of course the Ju-88 was designed to be used as multi role, (NF etc), which is a big advantage. Also I think that in low level performance (attack bomber) the Ju-88 would be superior, am I right?



Very correct Freebird.


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## Elvis (Feb 17, 2008)

If we count the beginning of the war as 1941, I'd say the A-20.
Fast, decent payload and multi-operation capable.







...however, if we're counting 1939 as the war's start, did we really have anything better than the B-18 in our arsenal?






(the good ship lolly-pop goes to war)



Elvis


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## machine shop tom (Feb 18, 2008)

The Martin Maryland was an unsung hero of the early war years. It would give bomb-carrying Ju88s a run for their money.

tom


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## Elvis (Feb 19, 2008)

Tom,

Never heard of that one before, so I did a little searching.
Impressive stats for a plane of that time!

...I'm not too sure about the dissapearing dorsal turret, though.




Elvis


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## Vincenzo (Feb 19, 2008)

unlucky the martin maryland became operational only in january 1940, this is too late for this topic


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## Elvis (Feb 19, 2008)

Vincenzo said:


> unlucky the martin maryland became operational only in january 1940, this is too late for this topic


...and again, the question is begged, which "start" are we referring to in this thread?

1939 (europe)
...or...
1941 (USA)



Elvis


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## Vincenzo (Feb 19, 2008)

the war start september 1 1939, in 1941 there is the join of war of us, and many others country.


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## Elvis (Feb 19, 2008)

Vincenzo said:


> the war start september 1 1939, in 1941 there is the join of war of us, and many others country.



Thanks for the clarification.

...then I guess my choice (allied), for now, is going to be "The Good Ship Lollypop".
I don't think even the B-25 was operational by '39, was it?



Elvis


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## Vincenzo (Feb 19, 2008)

in my first in this topic there is a list of bombers operational in september 1939, there are some wrongs and maybe some miss, but surely not for a so famous planes like B-25


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## Elvis (Feb 19, 2008)

...are we sure about that?...



National Museum of the USAF said:


> Built by North American Aviation, the B-25 first flew on Aug. 19, 1940, and the U.S. Army Air Corps accepted the first five B-25s in February 1941. By the end of the war, North American Aviation had built a total of 9,816 B-25s at its California and Kansas plants.





AcePilots.com said:


> This aircraft won the competition for the 1939 medium bomber contract, and the Army ordered 184 planes, designated B-25; the first example accepted by the Army in February, 1941.





Greg Goebel's vectorsite.net said:


> The USAAC took delivery of its first B-25 in February 1941.





Elvis


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## Elvis (Feb 19, 2008)

Vincenzo,

After posting that, I see it may appear that I'm being a bit rude, so hopefully I haven't offended.
I only wanted to show the acceptance date from multiple sources, so it didn't look like I was taking the word of one website over the entire internet.

...and so, again, it looks like "The Good Ship Lollypop".




Elvis


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## Vincenzo (Feb 19, 2008)

my english is too bad for understood anot direct offence, and after all i'm in right the b25 wasn't operational at september 1, 1939


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 19, 2008)

Vincenzo said:


> my english is too bad for understood anot direct offence, and after all i'm in right the b25 wasn't operational at september 1, 1939



True - the first production B-25 flight took place August 19, 1940.


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## Graeme (Feb 20, 2008)

machine shop tom said:


> The Martin Maryland was an unsung hero of the early war years.



Fascinating aircraft. Trounced in an Air Corps "Figure of Merit" scoring system in search of a new Attack-Bomber, the Maryland (design M/-5) received a score of 718 compared to the winning design, the Douglas DB-7 (design DS-4) of 905.
Glenn Martin wasn't too concerned as orders from the French were forthcoming as a result of changes to the Arms Embargo Act in October 1939.





Nevertheless in the right hands it proved to be a very capable aircraft. The British used it in the Middle East for reconnaissance, bombing and with an aggressive pilot, as a fighter. Flight Lieutenant Adrian Warburton ended with a score of 10 kills "in a short space of time" with the Maryland.

It had a very thin fuselage, replicated with the Baltimore. Story has it that James H. McDonnell designed the very slender fuselage based on the physical measurements of another Martin designer, Peyton M. Magruder (who went on to design the B-26 Marauder). He sat him down, added two inches to each side, and this established the maximum width of the fuselage.


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## Elvis (Feb 20, 2008)

...you realize the DB-7 eventually became the A-20 Havoc, right?

Actually, looking over the stats, both planes (Maryland and Havoc) had similar payloads and overall performance.

Eventually, the A-20 doubled its bombload (4K lbs., vs. 2K lbs.) with the addition of hardpoints under the wings to carry additional bombs.



Elvis


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## Vincenzo (Feb 20, 2008)

For help me and you all in the choice i give more complete info on the planes, i exclude more old design. 

Bristol Blenheim IV (2 Bristol Mercury XV 920 hp, 905 hp at TO, 995 HP max for 5')
crew: 3 Wing span 17.17 m Lenght 12.98 m. Wing area 43.57 m^.
weight: empty 4441 kg max 6532 kg (load 6122 kg).
fuel: 2125 liters, oil 117 liters (can add 2 tank of 227 liters in bomb bays)
bombs: internal 454 kg, external 145 kg
weapons: 3/5 7.7 mm
Speed max 428 km/h at 3595 m.
cruise 319 km/h at optimum alt.
ceiling 8.31 km (6.7 at full load)
at 1524 m. in 3.7'
at 3048 m. in 7.2'
climb slight over 450 m./1'
range 2350 km (full internal fuel, 454 kg bombs, cruise at 272 km/h)
range 3140 km (full internal fuel no bombs)

Handley Page Hampden I (2 Bristol Pegasus XVIII, 1050 hp) 
crew: 4 W. S. 21.08 m., L. 16.33 m., W. A. 62.06 m^
weight: empty 5344 kg, max 9525 kg 
fuel: 2973 liters
bombs: internal 1814 kg
weapons: 4 7.7 mm
speed max 409 km/h at 4205 m.
cruise economical 269 km/h at 4572 m, max 349 km/h at 4572 m.
ceiling 5.79 km
at 4572 in 18' 54''
climb 299 m/1'
range 3034 km (with 907 kg bombs)
range 1762 km (full load)

Vickers Wellington IA (2 Bristol Pegasus XVIII 1050 Hp)
crew: 6 W.S. 26.26 m., L. 19.69 m. W.A. 78.04 m^
weight: empty 8611 kg, max 12701 kg
fuel: 3167 liters
bombs: internal 2041 kg
weapons: 6 7.7 mm
speed max 379 km/h at 4724 m. (maybe over max speed)
cruise from 232 to 290 km/h
ceiling: 5.79 km
at 4050 in 25' (IC)
range 4102 km (with 454 kg bombs)
range 2904 km (not indicated, maybe full load)

Armstrong Whitworth Whitley IV (2 Rolls Royce Merlin IV, 1030 Hp at TO)
W.S. 25.6 m. L 21.25 m. W.A. 105.5 m^
weight: empty 7840 kg max 11773 kg (maybe load not max load)
fuel: 3205 liters (max 3800 liters maybe using some bomb bays)
bombs ?
weapons: 5 7.7 mm
speed max 394 km/h at 4870
cruise max 352 km/h at 4560
ceiling ?
at 4560 in 16'
climb ?
range 2896 km (max?)

Lockheed Hudson I (2 Wright R 1820 G102A, 1100 Hp at TO)
crew: 5 W.S. 19.96 m. L. 13.51 m. W.A. 51.14 m^
weight: empty 5484 kg max 8845 kg (load 7938 kg)
fuel: 2438 liters
bombs: internal 635 kg
weapons: 4 7.7 mm
speed max 396 km/h at 1980 m.
cruise 354 km/h
ceiling 7.62 km
at 3050 m. in 10'
climb 664 m/1' (other 472 m/1')
range 3154 km (max)

Martin Model 139 WH3A (2 Wright R 1820 G105A, 1000 Hp)
crew: 4 W.S. 21.48 m., L. 13.63 m., W.A. 65.35 m^
weight: empty 4682 kg, load 7087 kg
fuel ?
bombs: internal 1025 kg
weapons: 3 7.7 mm
speed max ~385 km/h
cruise ~295 km/h
ceilling 8.6 km
at 2894 m. in 4.9'
range 2760 km (max)

Douglas B-18A Bolo (2 Wright R1820 G53, 1000 Hp at TO)
crew: 6 W.S. 27.28 m., L. 17.63 m., W.A. 82.65 m^
weight: empty 7403 kg, max 12552 kg
fuel: over 3000 liters
bombs: internal 1996 kg (or 2948 kg)
weapons: 3 7.7 mm
speed max 347 km/h at 3056 m.
cruise 269 km/h
ceiling 7.28 km
at 3056 m. in 9.9'
climb 312 m/1'
range: 1850 km (with 1133 kg bombs)
range: 3400 km (max)

Mitsubishi Ki 21 Ia (Army Type 97 Heavy Bomber Model 1A) (2 Nakajima Ha-5 KAI, 950 Hp at TO, 1080 max)
crew: 5 W.S. 22.5 m., L. 16 m., W.A. 69.6 m^
weight: empty 4691 kg, max 7916 kg (7492 kg load)
fuel: 2635 liters
bombs: internal 1000 kg
weapons: 3 7.7 mm
speed max 432 km/h at 4000 m.
ceiling: 8.6 km
at 5000 m. in 13' 55''
climb 350/1'
range 1500 km (max bomb load)
range 2700 km (max fuel load)

note probably the Ib was in service they had 5 7.7 mgs and a more large bomb bay.

Mitsubishi G3M2a (Navy Type 96 Attack Bomber Model 21) (2 Mitsubishi Kinsei 41 or 42, 1075 Hp at TO)
crew: 5 W.S. 25 m., L. 16.45 m., W.A. 75 m^ (some report 84.3)
weight: empty ~4965 kg, loaded ~8000 kg
fuel: 3874 liters
bombs: external 800 kg
weapons: 3 7.7 mm
speed max 374 at 4180 (2b, for 2a max speed maybe near but a more low quote 2800m) 
cruise ~275 km/h
ceiling 9.13 km
at 3000 in 8'19''
climb 360m/1'
range 4380 km (max)

note many data for model 22 difference this had more weapons so slight more heavy, the engine kinsei 45 max is at 4km (1000 hp) instead of 2.8 km (990 hp) of kinsei 41/42

Tupolev SB 2M103 (2 M 103, 960 Hp)
crew: 4 W.S. 20.33 m., L. 12.27, W.A. 56.7 m^
weight: empty 4427 kg, max 7750 kg (6175 kg load)
fuel: 1670 liters (+ 2 external tank 368 liters each)
bombs: internal 600 kg, external 1000 kg
weapons: 4 7.7 mm
speed max 419 km/h at 4000 m.
speed max 358 km/h at 0
ceiling 9.6 km
at 4000 m. in 7.45'
at 5000 m. in 8.4'
range 1800 km

note there is a late variant SB bis 3, small series, with some refinement this the difference: (lenght 12.24 load weight 6013 kg vel max 445 km/h at 4.5 km, range 1600 km)

Ilyushin DB-3 model 1939 (2 M87A, 950 Hp)
crew: 3 W.S. 21.44 m, L. 14.22 m., W.A.. 65.6 m^
weight: empty 5030 kg, max 9450 kg (7445 kg load)
fuel: ? (can use also 2 drop tank)
bombs: internal 1000 kg, external 2000 kg (max 2500 kg)
weapons: 3 7.7 mm
speed max 439 km/h at 4900 m.
speed max 345 km/h at 0 m.
cruise 320 km/h
ceiling 9.6 km
at 1000 m. in 2.4'
at 5000 m. in 12.1'
range 3800 km

note not 100% sure that this version was operational.

P.Z.L. 37 (2 Bristol Pegasus XX, 925 Hp, 970 Hp max, 909 Hp normal?)
crew: 4 W.S. 17.93 m., L. 12.92 m., W.A. 53.5 m^
weight: empty 4935 kg, max 9105 kg, (load 8880 kg, some report 4263 kg empty)
fuel: ?
bombs: internal 2400 kg 
weapons: 3 7.92 mm
speed max 412km/h at 2800 m.
ceiling 5.9 km (full load)
climb 282m./1'
range 2600 km (?)
range 1500 km (full bombs)

Dornier Do 17Z-2 (2 Bramo 323P Fafnir, 1000 Hp)
crew: 4 W.S. 18 m., L. 15.8 m., W.A. 55 m^
weights: empty 5210 kg, max 8845 kg
fuel: 1550 liters, oil 204 liters (auxiliary tank in a bomb bay 896 liters)
bombs: internal 1000 kg
weapons: 4/6 7.92 mm
speed max 424 km/h at 4000
ceiling 8.15 km
at 1000 m. in 3'18''
climb 390 m./1'
range 1150 km (500 kg bombs)
range 3000 km (max fuel not bombs)

Junkers Ju 86G-1 (2 Bramo 132N, 865 Hp at TO)
crew: 4 W.S. 22.5 m., L. 17.5 m., W.A. 82 m^ 
weights: empty 5200 kg load 8230 kg
fuel: 1500 liters
bomb: internal 1000 kg
weapons: 3 7.92 mm
speed max 378 km/h
speed max 330 km/h at 0 m.
cruise max 340 km/h
ceiling 7.7 km
range 1400 km

Junkers Ju 88A-0 (2 Jumo 211 B1 1200 Hp)
crew: 4, W.S. 18.38, L. 14.36 m., W.A. 52.5 m^
weights: empty 7700 kg, max 12600 kg (load 10400 kg)
fuel: 1660 liters (+ auxiliary tanks in bomb bays 1215 liters and 680 liters + also 2 drop tank) 
bombs: internal 1400 kg external 1500 kg (max 2400 kg)
weapons: 3 7.92 mm
speed max 450 km/h at 5500 m.
speed max 363 km/h at 0 m.
cruise max 350 km/h at 3500 m.
ceiling 9.8 km
climb 552m./1'
range 3677 km (max fuel and 500 kg bombs)
range 1258 km (max bombs (2400 kg) and internal fuel (1660 liters))

note only ten build in I/KG25

Heinkel He 111H-2 (2 Jumo 211A, 1000 Hp)
crew: 4, W.S. 22.6 m., L. 16.4 m., W.A. 87.6 m^
weights: empty 6740 kg, max 12600 kg
fuel: 3400 liters (+ auxiliary and drop tanks)
bombs: internal 2000 kg, external 2000 kg (max 2500 kg)
weapons: 3 7.92 mm
speed max 435 km/h at 6000 m.
ceiling 6.5 km
range 2000 km (?)

Fokker T V (2 Bristol Pegasus XXVI, 925 Hp)
crew: 5 W.S. 21, L. 16, W.A. 60.2 m^
weights: empty 4700 kg, max 7250 kg
fuel: ?
bombs: internal 1000 kg (most for true only 400 kg not just track)
weapons: 5 7.92 mm 1 20 mm
speedl max 417 km/h a 2800 m.
cruise 350 km/h
ceiling 7.5 km
range 1550 km (?)

Bloch MB 131 (2 Gnome et Rhône 14N10 or 11, 910 Hp at TO)
crew: 4, W.S. 20.27 m., L. 17.85 m., W.A. 52.05 m^
weights: 6050 kg, max 8600 kg
fuel: ?
bombs: internal 800 kg
weapons: 3 7.5 mm
speed max 385 km/h at 4000 m.
cruise 270 km/h
at 4000 in 11'
ceiling 7.25 km
climb 306m./1'
range 1200 km (max, maybe radius)

Lioré et Olivier LeO 451 (2 Gnome et Rhône 14N48 or 49, 1140 Hp at TO)
crew: 4, W.S. 22.52 m., L. 17 m., W.A. 68 m^)
weights: empty 7820 kg, max 11400 kg
fuel: 3225 liters, oil 170 liters
bombs: internal 1400 kg, external possible
weapons: 2 7.5 mm, 1 20 mm
speed max 495 km/h at 4800 m.
cruise max 420 km/h
ceiling 9 km
at 5000 in 14'
range 2300 km (with 500 kg bombs)

note only 5 operational in GB I/31 

Potez 633 (2 Gnome et Rhône 14M6, 670 Hp)
crew: 2, W.S. 16 m., L. 11.07 m., W.A. 32.7 m^
weights: empty 2900 kg, max 4500 kg
fuel: 760 liters
bombs: internal 400 kg, external 200 kg
weapons: 2 7.5 mm 
speed max 440 km/h at 4000 m.
ceiling 8 km
at 4000 m. in 8'30''
climb 570 m./1'
range 1300 km

Breda Ba 88 Lince (2 Piaggio XI RC40, 1000 Hp)
crew: 2, W.S. 15.6 m., L. 10.79 m, W.A. 33.34 m^
weights: empty 4650 kg, max 6750 kg
fuel: ?
bombs: internal 1000 kg
weapons: 1 7.7 mm, 3 12.7 mm
speed max 490 km/h at 4500 m.
ceiling 8 km
at 3000 m. in 7'30''
at 6000 m. in 15'19''
range 1640 km (?)

Caproni Ca. 135 (2 Isotta Fraschini Asso XI RC40, 825 Hp)
crew: 4, W.S. 18.8, L. 13.7, W.A. 60 m^
weights: empty 5600 kg, max 8400 kg
fuel: ?
bombs: internal 1600 kg
weapons:2 7.7 mm, 2 12.7 mm
speed max 365 km/h
ceiling 7.9 km
at 4000 m. in 16'45''
range 1600 km (?)

Fiat B.R. 20 Cicogna (2 Fiat A80, 1000 Hp)
crew: 4, W.S. 21.54 m., L. 16.98 m., W.A. 74.07 m^
weights: empty 6500 kg, max 10100 kg
fuel: 3600 liters
bombs: 1600 kg
weapons: 4 7.7 mm (only first 20), 2 7.7 mm, 1 12.7 mm (others)
speed max 430 km/h at 4000 m.
speed max 330 km/h at 0
cruise 343 km/h at 4850 m.
ceiling 7.6 km
at 5000 m. in 17'56''
at 3000 m. in 9'58''
at 6000 m. in 25'30''
range 1240 km (with 1000 kg bombs)
range 1920 km (normal ?)
range 3000 km (max)

Savoia Marchetti S.M. 79 Sparviero (3 Alfa Romeo 126 RC34, 780 Hp at TO)
crew: 4/5, W.S. 21. m., L. 15.8 m., W.A. 61.7 m^
weights: empty 6800 kg, max 10480 kg
fuel: 2550 kg
bombs: 1250 kg
weapons: 1 7.7 mm, 3 12.7 mm
speed max 430 km/h at 4000
speed max 360 km/h at 0
cruise speed 350/375 km/h
ceiling: 6.5 km (full load)
at 5000 m. in 19'45''
at 3000 m. in 9'15''
range 1900 km (with ? bombs)
range 3300 km (max)

Cant Z. 1007 Alcione (3 Isotta Fraschini Asso XI RC40, 825 Hp)
crew: 5, W.S. 24.8 m., L. 16.15 m., W.A. 75.3 m^
weights: empty 8210 kg, max 12210 kg
fuel: ?
bombs: ? (Bis load is 1200 kg)
weapons: 3 7.7 mm, 1 12.7 mm 
speed max 430 km/h at 5000
cruise 366 km/h
ceiling 6.65 Km
at 4000 in 10'15''
range 2700 km (?)


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## davparlr (Feb 20, 2008)

Although it doesn't quite make the time line although it did fly by Sep, '39, here is some stats on the B-23 compared to the Ju-88A-1.

Top speed B-23-282 mph, Ju-88-286 mph.

Ceiling B-23-31,600 ft, Ju-88-30,600 ft.

Range w/load B-23-1455 miles w/4000lbs, Ju-88-1550 mile w/2200lbs

Quite close. While 38 were built, the B-23 was passed over for manufacture because of the higher performing B-25.


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## Graeme (Feb 20, 2008)

Elvis said:


> ...you realize the DB-7 *eventually* became the A-20 Havoc, right?


Yes I did thanks Elvis.


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## Elvis (Feb 21, 2008)

Graeme,

You're welcome.

--------------------------------

I know this wasn't on the list, and I seem to be the only one waving its flag, but for anyone interestd, here's a bit on the B-18, courtesy of the good folks at The National Museum of the USAF...

"_DOUGLAS B-18 BOLO



The Douglas Aircraft Co. developed the B-18 to replace the Martin B-10 as the U.S. Army Air Corps' standard bomber. Based on the Douglas DC-2 commercial transport, the prototype B-18 competed with the Martin 146 (an improved B-10) and the four-engine Boeing 299, forerunner of the B-17, at the Air Corps bombing trials at Wright Field in 1935. Although many Air Corps officers judged the Boeing design superior, the Army General Staff preferred the less costly Bolo (along with 13 operational test YB-17s). The Air Corps later ordered 217 more as B-18As with the bombardier's position extended forward over the nose gunner's station. 

Though equipped with inadequate defensive armament and underpowered, the Bolo remained the Air Corps' primary bomber into 1941, and the Japanese destroyed some B-18s during the surprise attacks on Dec. 7. By early 1942, improved bombers like the B-17 replaced the Bolo as first-line bombardment aircraft. Many B-18s were then used as transports, or modified as B-18Bs for anti-submarine duty. 


TECHNICAL NOTES: 
Armament: Three .30-cal. guns (in nose, ventral and dorsal positions), plus 4,500 lbs. of bombs carried internally 
Engines: Two Wright R-1820-53s of 1,000 hp each 
Crew: Six 
Maximum speed: 215 mph at 15,000 ft. 
Cruising speed: 167 mph 
Range: 2,100 miles 
Ceiling: 23,900 ft.
Span: 89 ft. 6 in. 
Length: 57 ft. 10 in. 
Height: 15 ft. 2 in. 
Weight: 27,000 lbs. loaded_ " 

...and a little more...

"_The Douglas B-18 was originally designed and built as the DB-1 (Douglas Bomber #1) for the Army Air Corps 1934 requirement for a long range bomber. The DB-1 was based on the Douglas DC-2 and retained many of the latter aircraft's features, including the wing and aft fuselage. The DB-1 was in competition with the Martin Model 146 (an enlarged B-10) and the Boeing Model 299. Although the Boeing entry was clearly superior, the DB-1 was initially favored by the Army General Staff for two reasons. First, the Boeing Model 299 crashed during testing. The crash was the result of pilot error but was technically disqualified from the competition. Second, the DB-1 could be built for about half the cost of the Model 299 (B-17). The General Staff considered the B-17 too expensive and opted for an order for 99 B-18s and only 13 Y1B-17s in 1936. 
Thirty-five more B-18s were ordered in 1937, including the last B-18, which had a power nose turret and was designated DB-2 by Douglas. The Army continued to favor the B-18 into the late 1930s when 217 more were ordered as improved B-18As in 1937-1939._"










Elvis


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## Vincenzo (Feb 28, 2008)

I ended the add on info, unlucky the 10000 word limit hit me.
Corrections are welcomed


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## Vincenzo (Mar 4, 2008)

After studying the data. I think that the best bomber (twin-triple engine) was Heinkel He 111H2, this is not excellent in any parameter (i watch, defensive weapons, bomb load, range, speed, weight/hp, weight/wing area) but is good in all.

p.s. little correction, this is one of best for bomb load


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