# Covid-19 reports



## Vincenzo (Oct 24, 2020)

Italy report 18th October, weekly changes
cases 414,241, +59,291, deaths 36,543 +377, recovered 251,461, +11,752, active cases 126,237, +47,162, tests 13,540,582, +975,869, people tested 8,199,744, +607,334
fatality rate 8.8% (-1.4)
mortality rate 606 per million (+6)
test rate 224.5 per thousand (+16.2)
positive rate 5.1% (+0.4)
test rate this week 16,179 per million (+3,237)
positive rate this week 9.8% (+3.6)
new case rate this week 983 per million (+492) 

the total cases in my town are now 29, of which 14 in a asylum seeker house (all active now)


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## Vincenzo (Oct 25, 2020)

In today report 21,273 new cases in Italy, around 3 times the first wave peak
also if the actually peak in the first wave probably was more around 30,000 and not the ~6,500 found

my town count was wrong we are at 22 total cases, there was a misunderstand with the asylum seeker the 7 are now negative was go out as new 7 positive
actually we have 5 active cases of which one in ICU

p.s. from tomorow we are, all Italy, in near lock down phase, in the first wave we get this situation only few days and after we gone in lock down

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## Vincenzo (Oct 26, 2020)

Italy report 25th October, weekly changes
cases 525,782, +111,541, deaths 37,338 +795, recovered 266,203, +14,742, active cases 222,241, +96,004, tests 14,654,002, +1,113,420, people tested 8,890,656, +690,912
fatality rate 7.1% (-1.7)
mortality rate 619 per million (+13)
test rate 242.9 per thousand (+18.4)
positive rate 5.9% (+0.8)
test rate this week 18,459 per million (+2,280)
positive rate this week 16.1% (+6.3)
new case rate this week 1,849 per million (+866) 

the high positive rate of last week, is not good, probably the test capability is not enough for the needs

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## ThomasP (Oct 29, 2020)

Minnesota report, October 29
total cases 142,311(+2,849), total recovered 124,379, total hospitalized 9,991/2,642(694/173)*, total deaths 2,419(+32), total tests 2,770,450**(+27,769)
fatality rate 1.7%
mortality rate 424.4 per million
test rate 486 per thousand
positive rate 7.2%

*The current cases hospitalized and in ICU.
**This number is the total number of tests that have been processed.

Addition to the Minnesota report

The height of the 'first wave' in Minnesota occurred in the end of May, when we saw just over 600 people hospitalized with COVID-19, of which about 240 were in ICU. The highest number of deaths in one day was 35. The highest number of newly confirmed cases up to that point in time was about 950 in one day. After the end of May the numbers gradually tapered off to about 50% of the high point, until the beginning of September when the current spike's upward trend started.

Based on the hospitalization and ICU numbers above it appears that Minnesota is doing fairly well in terms of preparedness and capacity. At this time the only serious problem spots are in the more rural areas, where due to smaller size some of the hospitals are becoming overwhelmed as the virus spreads.


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## Vincenzo (Nov 2, 2020)

Italy report 1st November, weekly changes
cases 709,335, +183,553, deaths 38,826 +1,488, recovered 292,380, +26,177, active cases 378,129, +155,888, tests 15,967,918, +1,313,916, people tested 9,695,940, +805,284
fatality rate 5.5% (-1.6)
mortality rate 644 per million (+25)
test rate 264.7 per thousand (+21.8)
positive rate 7.3% (+1.4)
test rate this week 21,784 per million (+3,325)
positive rate this week 22.8% (+6.7)
new case rate this week 3,043 per million (+1,194) 

my town is to 35 total cases

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## Vincenzo (Nov 8, 2020)

Italy report 8th November, weekly changes
cases 935,104, +225,769, deaths 41,394 +2,568, recovered 335,074, +42,604, active cases 558,129, +180,507, tests 17,374,713, +1,406,795, people tested 10,547,046, +851,106
fatality rate 4.4% (-1.1)
mortality rate 686 per million (+42)
test rate 288.1per thousand (+23.4)
positive rate 8.9% (+1.6)
test rate this week 23,323 per million (+1,539)
positive rate this week 26.5% (+3.7)
new case rate this week 3,743 per million (+700) 

in heavy hit area, they start to test only symptomatic

my town is to 53 total cases

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## Vincenzo (Nov 16, 2020)

Italy report 15th November, weekly changes
cases 1,178,529, +243,425, deaths 45,229 +3,835, recovered 420,810, +85,736, active cases 712,490, +154,361*, tests 18,878,386, +1,503,673, people tested 11,416,172, +869,126
* first time growth go down in the 2nd wave
fatality rate 3.8% (-0.6)
mortality rate 750 per million (+64)
test rate 313 per thousand (+24.9)
positive rate 10.3% (+1.4)
test rate this week 24,930 per million (+1,607)
positive rate this week 28% (+1.5)
new case rate this week 4,036 per million (+293)

my town is to 64 total cases, we get also a 3rd death


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## TheMadPenguin (Nov 19, 2020)

Large study shows mask-wearing 'not statistically significant'
Just because we've argued this before from a logical perspective, here's field data...

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## Vincenzo (Nov 19, 2020)

the acp article is available here ACP Journals

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## ThomasP (Nov 19, 2020)

Minnesota report, November 19

total cases 249,906(+7,877), total recovered 198,365, total hospitalized 14,171/3,346(1,384/367)*, total deaths 3,082(+72), total tests 3,534,745**/***(+54,514)
fatality rate 1.2%
mortality rate 540.7 per million
test rate 620 per thousand
positive rate 7.1%

*The current cases hospitalized and in ICU. Note that these numbers have ~doubled in the last 20 days, and the averaged daily number of new deaths has more than doubled in the last few days (the large group of new cases have been ill long enough that they are starting to die in proportionately large numbers).
**This number is the total number of tests that have been processed.
***The actual total number of individuals that have received 1 or more tests is 2,223,137.

Addition to the Minnesota report.

As I mentioned up-thread on October 29th, the hospitals and healthcare systems in the more rural areas of Minnesota were beginning to have serious problems.

I found out a couple of days ago that my home town has had some very serious issues. There is only one nursing home in my home town, with a total of about 45 residents. As of the first week of November ALL of the residents tested positive for COVID-19. Since then 8 have died, with 8 listed as critical - 4 of them currently on ventilators. The situation became so bad that members of the residents' families were contacted and asked/told to come in and help take care of their loved ones. A friend of my sister was one of the people contacted, to help take care of her mother. When she arrived at the nursing home she found that there were only 2 health care workers available on second and third shift, with 3 available during 1st shift. The normal staffing is 8-10/6/4 for 1st/2nd/3rd shift. This shortage is due to a combination of factors, ie the workers being exposed to COVID and isolating, being ill themselves with COVID, having to take care of their own family members who have contracted COVID, and an unavailability of skilled people capable of working in the current environment. When her mother's health started to go downhill, my sister's friend took her mother to the local area hospital where she was turned away by the hospital staff. They had no beds available in ICU or the COVID isolation and treatment ward - due to some of the same reasons that existed at the nursing home - plus treatment in an isolation environment was not possible and there was too great a risk of the virus spreading among the other non-COVID hospital patients. Her mother died a couple of days later at their home. During the second week of taking care of her mother, my sister's friend also contracted COVID. My sister has been unable to contact her friend for about a week now.

Unfortunately, although Minnesota's ratio of the total number of hospital beds to the number of serious COVIC-19 cases is still not too bad, the events described above are becoming more common in the rural areas. Even a numerically small number of active cases can overwhelm a local healthcare system.

We are currently entering a second severe lockdown by order of the Minnesota Governor, with the hope that the restrictions will help reduce the rate of spread to a more manageable level. There is not going to be a literal stay-at-home/shelter-in-place order, but all indoor entertainment businesses are to close, all indoor/outdoor dining businesses (including bars) are to close, etc. Most workplaces will remain open as long as they obey the social distancing and workplace health safety guidelines already in effect. Any social gatherings (indoor or outdoor) are banned (ie no parties) for anyone not members of the same family, except events such as wedding ceremonies and funerals (and similar) as long as social distancing and the number restrictions (ie how many people may be present in the venue) are observed. Outdoor activities and exercise are still allowed as long as all present are members of the same family (ie no frat parties, no friendly get-together football keggers, no neighborhood barbecues, etc). Even large family get-togethers (such as Thanksgiving dinner) are frowned upon, although there will be no legal repercussions as long as those present are members of the same family.

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## Vincenzo (Nov 23, 2020)

Italy report, 22th November, weekly changes
cases 1,408,868, +230,339*, deaths 49,823 +4,594, recovered 553,098, +132,288, active cases 805,947, +93,457**, tests 20,388,576, +1,510,190, people tested 12,225,850, +809,678
* first time growth go down in the 2nd wave ** 2nd week of growth go down
fatality rate 3.5% (-0.3)
mortality rate 826 per million (+76)
test rate 338 per thousand (+25)
positive rate 11.5% (+1.2)
test rate this week 25,038 per million (+78)
positive rate this week 28.4% (+0.4)
new case rate this week 3,819 per million (-217)

my town is to 67 total cases, 13 active

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## ThomasP (Nov 23, 2020)

Hey Vincenzo,

May I ask what the population of your town is? You may have said in the other thread but I do not remember.


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## stona (Nov 23, 2020)

Some sanity from the UK and England. First, some current statistics on the NHS.

Hospital bed occupancy for the beginning of this month was actually lower than the five-year average for November.
Data from November 5, the most recent date on record, showed the number of beds occupied in England were 113,474, compared to the higher 114,767 on the same day last year.

The number of people in ICU beds is also currently lower than normal for this time of year, with approximately 70 per cent currently full, compared to 80 per cent in previous years.
Many hospitals *are* under pressure from another influx of coronavirus patients, but this is not the case in all UK hospitals and they are not at full capacity. Only 13 per cent of beds in NHS hospitals are filled with Covid-19 patients. Covid-19 patients account for around 10 per cent of general and acute beds in hospitals. But, there are still more than 13,000 beds available. Of course many routine procedures which might take up beds are being postponed. In the first lockdown referral for cancer screening and treatment fell by 2,700 per week! At what cost to those people?

Whose dying?
Out of the 37,796 deaths in NHS England hospitals up to November 20, 35,806, near enough 95% had underlying conditions. There have been only 42 deaths of people under the age of 40 who didn't have underlying health problems. More than half of those who died in England, 53.7%, were over the age of 80.

What about overall mortality?
Compared to the five-year average of deaths, the current numbers show we are relatively in line with that. Deaths per week spiked earlier this year during the 'first wave' as the virus took hold and we saw a huge difference compared to the average. But now it is roughly the same, with deaths running up to November 10 recorded at 10,887, and the five-year average for the same period at 10,861. We might expect deaths to spike in normal years as we get into winter and the flu season but of course measures to mitigate Covis-19 also mitigate the seasonal flu.

The second limited lockdown has reduced infection rates to the point that the famous coronavirus 'R' number now estimated nationally at between 1.0 and 1.1

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## Vincenzo (Nov 23, 2020)

ThomasP said:


> Hey Vincenzo,
> 
> May I ask what the population of your town is? You may have said in the other thread but I do not remember.



around 4,800


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## Vincenzo (Nov 23, 2020)

stona the ICU beds available are the same of the last year?
in Italy the ICU beds go up to around one thousand and are growing, also if a very low rate


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## Crimea_River (Nov 23, 2020)

We are well and truly in the shit.

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## Vincenzo (Nov 23, 2020)

the italian province of South Tyrol started a full population test for the covid-19 at today they tested 349,655 (~65%) people and found 3,321 positives, the campaign will end wednesday
it's not compulsory

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 23, 2020)

We are almost at 100% ICU capacity where I live. Health officials also announced in my area that they do not have the staff to even treat everyone coming into the hospital.

When will people finally get it, and start doing what we need to do? Nov. 3 past, and the virus did not magically disappear...

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## Dash119 (Nov 23, 2020)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Nov. 3 past, and the virus did not magically disappear...


Yea, but the election is still being contested, I guess we have to wait for a definitive outcome for it to go away...

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## stona (Nov 23, 2020)

The reason that we have those reasonable figures in the UK is because of the measures that have been taken to mitigate the worst effects.
No sane person would argue against the lockdown earlier this year when we were dealing with a new virus and a burgeoning pandemic about which the so called experts were largely guessing, based on data from a previous and different pandemic 100 years ago. Some of the United States are reaping what they sowed, and in some cases continue to sow.
We are far better informed now. We know who the vulnerable are and we know that for younger people the risk of death or serious illness is slight if not negligible. Project fear did its job almost too well at the beginning of the pandemic and some of it is only now being undone in the face of hard data. That data is summed up in the number 42. That's how many of the 55,000 dead were aged under forty with apparently no underlying health conditions.
The discussion opening up at the moment is about targeting protection at those who need it. Nobody is suggesting throwing the elderly or otherwise vulnerable people under a bus, but there is a discussion to be had about whether repeated lockdowns, stalling the economy and *quarantining millions of* *healthy (and productive) people* is the way to do it.

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## vikingBerserker (Nov 23, 2020)

Andy, Am I reading your chart correctly, new cases have increased since 10/01 but the number of deaths has remained stable?

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## Vincenzo (Nov 23, 2020)

underlyng condition it's nothing, i've 3 underlyng condition, but not for this i need do die, my paternal family has a heart defect but all they i've known lived almost 86 years

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 23, 2020)

Dash119 said:


> Yea, but the election is still being contested, I guess we have to wait for a definitive outcome for it to go away...



Unfortunately people believe that.

How we ever put on a man in the moon, let alone left the 18th century is beyond me.

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## stona (Nov 23, 2020)

Vincenzo said:


> underlyng condition it's nothing, i've 3 underlyng condition, but not for this i need do die, my paternal family has a heart defect but all they i've known lived almost 86 years



There are some co-morbidities that put people at increased risk, and we now know what these are. Some are obvious, any problems with the lungs like COPD, some less so, like diabetes.

The debate is not about ignoring people at risk, we know that more than half the deaths (53.7%) in the UK are people aged 80 or over so simply being elderly is also a risk, it's about targeting protection for them. If people at risk have to be quarantined (as they have been since March in most UK Care homes) then that's what has to be done and we have to make provision for that.

The debate is whether we have to quarantine millions of younger people who are at no significant risk, which is what causes the most damage to society and our economies and which is particularly hard for to those less fortunate or less well off. It's not a problem for someone with a salaried job or working in the public sector, whether they go to work, work from home or sit at home the monthly cheque comes in (or the 80% furlough). There are millions not in that position. 

It is the self employed and small businesses that are bending the rules because they have to in order to work, pay their rent or mortgages and feed their families. You can make all the rules you want, but people will bend, ignore or break them if they are desperate enough. I know several tradesmen who are working normally. I know a beautician who has been seeing clients, against the rues, at her home, because she would like to keep that home. One of my friends is a certified gas fitter who with his son spent last week installing a new central heating system in a private home. I asked him how he could justify that and he said, 'emergency work'

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 23, 2020)

Here is the problem...

There does not need to be a quarantine or lockdown. People just need to stop being selfish pricks and thinking about nothing but themselves. People just need to stop hanging out in large groups, going to bars, not social distancing, and not wearing masks. If people would stop acting like adolescents and do these things we could get this under control. We need to stop thinking of just ourselves, and start thinking of our communities as a whole. Think of the healthcare workers. Think of the single mother working at the store to feed her two kids, while someone breaths there nasty germs around her, and just came from a gathering of 20 people who may or may not have been infected.

It’s not just about the elderly or people at high risk. When someone goes to the grocery store, and does not take the necessary precautions and measures such as wearing mask and keeping six feet from others you are potentially exposing someone else. Someone who may be vulnerable. Someone who may have an elderly or vulnerable person living with them.

By not being responsible and following guidelines proposed by doctors and health officials, you are helping the overburdening of the healthcare system. That effects sick people (other than corona) and others in need of emergency care.

*If people would act like adults, do whats right and stop acting like they are some pathetic “woke” patriot fighting the system, we would not have to talk about lockdowns and quarantines.*

I will say this one final time, and it is the last thing I will from here on out.

*Demanding your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities is not freedom. It’s adolescence.*

Fact, over and out...

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## ThomasP (Nov 23, 2020)

Hey Vincenzo,

The population of my home town is just under 5,000.

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## Crimea_River (Nov 23, 2020)

Couldn't agree more Chris.



vikingBerserker said:


> Andy, Am I reading your chart correctly, new cases have increased since 10/01 but the number of deaths has remained stable?



No David, deaths have been steadily going up but it's not easily seen because of the scale on the chart. Total deaths as of yesterday is 472 and the number was 271 on Oct 1. Alberta's population is 4.4 million.


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## stona (Nov 24, 2020)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> *If people would act like adults, do whats right and stop acting like they are some pathetic “woke” patriot fighting the system, we would not have to talk about lockdowns and quarantines.*



This is simply NOT true. The vulnerable and the elderly have to be protected and the only way to do this is for them to minimise contact with the rest of the population. We can call this self-isolation or anything we like, but it IS quarantine.

The sick or anyone with a positive test (which is why testing is so important) also need to self isolate/quarantine. This should be blindingly obvious. There are hundreds of historical precedents for the quarantining of sick people, it was understood in the middle ages, when they had no idea what actually caused an epidemic/pandemic.

The question is really whether millions in the healthy population at large needs to quarantine as is the case in lockdowns. There is no precedent for this. Sensible precautions to mitigate the spread of infection STILL have to be used, but that's not the same as locking everyone in their homes except for essential forays outside, which is the current situation in England and much of the UK. 

The reason some people are bending the rues is not because they are fighting the system, it's because they are fighting to maintain their livelihoods, keep their homes, etc. Do you blame them? Even those bending the rules are still generally doing their best, wearing masks, doing the hand washing, keeping distance as much as possible, etc. The resistance to such measures in the UK is still limited to a relative few, the vast majority comply because they should and they understand that it's the right thing to do.

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## Vincenzo (Nov 24, 2020)

In Italy most common underlying condition is the hypertension, more of 30% of the population has it, on the old side near 30% of population is over 60

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## stona (Nov 24, 2020)

In the UK the most common comorbidities in those who succumb to Covid-19 are Hypertensive *diseases*, diabetes and heart disease, which are also more prevalent in the older people in any population. Hypertension, defined as a recorded blood pressure higher than 140/90 mmHg and no prescribed blood pressure medication, affects about 26% of UK adults and is not just a risk factor for Covid-19 but the other hypertensive diseases which are also comorbidities in deaths from Covid-19.

Canada recently quantified the comorbidities in the first wave Covid-19 deaths there. In descending order these were pneumonia (33%), hypertensive diseases (15%), ischemic heart disease (13%), respiratory failure (13%), renal failure (12%), diabetes (12%), symptoms, signs and abnormal clinical and laboratory findings, not elsewhere classified (11%), chronic lower respiratory diseases (10%), nervous system disorders excluding Alzheimer’s (8%) and cancer (8%).


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## buffnut453 (Nov 24, 2020)

stona said:


> The vulnerable and the elderly have to be protected and the only way to do this is for them to minimise contact with the rest of the population. We can call this self-isolation or anything we like, but it IS quarantine.



Sorry, Steve, but I have to disagree with you on this one because it's simply not practical. I'm an at-risk person. I'm over 50 and have an underlying condition but I'm fully employed (thankfully I can work from home most of the time) and, I hope, making a positive contribution to society. How on earth am I supposed to self-isolate with my 16 year-old son going to school and, presumably, my wife running any and all errands outside the home? What if my wife or son contract COVID and then give it to me? Are you suggesting I should have no contact with my wife and son, or are you recommending my entire family stays at home for the entirety of our lives? That's just not practical. It prevents us doing even basic things like shopping, never mind the negative impact on my son's schooling and social development. 

We can't divide society into young/old or low-risk/high-risk groups and expect there to be no cross-pollination between the groupings. Yes, young people are at much lower risk of suffering severe symptoms or dying from disease...but what about their teachers, professors, or older people that they work with? 

Rather than trying to isolate perceived at-risk people, the population should be working together more to slow down the spread of the disease by doing the basics: wash hands, clean surfaces with disinfectant wipes, maintain social distancing, wear masks. However, there isn't a day that goes by where I see people not doing those things. 




stona said:


> The reason some people are bending the rues is not because they are fighting the system, it's because they are fighting to maintain their livelihoods, keep their homes, etc. Do you blame them? Even those bending the rules are still generally doing their best, wearing masks, doing the hand washing, keeping distance as much as possible, etc. The resistance to such measures in the UK is still limited to a relative few, the vast majority comply because they should and they understand that it's the right thing to do.



Yes, there are some who are bending the rules because they're fighting to maintain livelihoods. However, a great many more are just being selfish, inconsiderate or just ignorant. When people are complaining about wearing masks because they think it infringes their civil rights, you really have to question their priorities...or I do, at least. 

With the holiday season coming up, people are doing even more stupid things. In the US, air travel last weekend was only 10% lower than this time last year. That's not due to people fighting for their businesses...it's because people aren't thinking or they selfishly believe that they're somehow more special than everyone else, which gives them the right to ignore advice from healthcare professionals.

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## stona (Nov 24, 2020)

How on earth am I supposed to self-isolate with my 16 year-old son going to school and, presumably, my wife running any and all errands outside the home?

You do what you can to minimise the risk, as you are now. A 16 year old has to go to school and your wife has to do what she wants to do. I don't understand your point, you can't self isolate and nor can they. You can continue what you are doing now. If you have a household emergency requiring professional help what will you do. You call that tradesman and minimise contact and risk.

There ARE people who can quarantine. Elderly or at risk households, many are already self isolating, receiving grocery deliveries from Ocado or similar, or sympathetic relatives. I have an 88 year old neighbour who has probably left his property less than five times since March. Care home and retirement home residents and those in supported living are already in isolation and staff taking at least weekly tests to minimise their risk. These are the REALLY vulnerable groups.

This is what I mean by targeted quarantine.

BTW I took the fuhrerin to the QE hospital in Birmingham today for a routine blood test. Traffic was not discernibly less than a normal week day. The boss was in and out in ten minutes. It's a drop in clinic and she typically has to wait at least half an hour, sometimes longer. She noticed that there was nobody waiting and asked the nurse if they were busy. The nurse said the usual busy clinic had been like the Marie Celeste since the latest lockdown, so there is one thing people are not doing. They are not going to hospital for routine procedures. That will entail a toll which we won't know for months or years. I already posted the Cancer Research UK estimates of extra cancer deaths in the UK due to missed referrals and treatments. There are costs too lockdowns too, and not just economic ones, which my children and grand children will be paying. Their lives will be poorer for decisions made now, and there is a discussion to be had. At the moment any kind of dissenting voice is shouted down by emotional arguments without any logic or testing where the balance should be. This is not healthy.

Great Barrington Declaration (gbdeclaration.org)

I bet most people reading this have never heard of this declaration!

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## davparlr (Nov 24, 2020)

This last weekend we lost a dearly loved friend to Covid. She was 65 and with no know health issue as those listed above. She had gone to a funeral, all were wearing mask. She and her husband, age 73, caught the disease. Doug only had flu like symptoms. Two weeks from exposure, Dale was dead. We are heart broken. Be careful!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 24, 2020)

I was not going to respond anymore to this thread, but after the accusations in that last post...

Bullshit, my entire argument was made with logic and without emotion. Just because you disagree with the view doesn’t mean otherwise.

Fact remains if people went about their lives taking the necessary precautions and thinking about more than just themselves, we would not be talking about lockdowns and quarantines. They are not necessary when people take those precautions.

*Demanding your rights, without acknowledging your responsibilities is not freedom...*

*It is adolescence.*


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 24, 2020)

davparlr said:


> This last weekend we lost a dearly loved friend to Covid. She was 65 and with no know health issue as those listed above. She had gone to a funeral, all were wearing mask. She and her husband, age 73, caught the disease. Doug only had flu like symptoms. Two weeks from exposure, Dale was dead. We are heart broken. Be careful!



I am sorry for your loss.

These are very sad times indeed. This will be a dark Christmas for the families of 300,000+ American’s. I cannot help but think that it could have been not as bad had we tackled this pandemic differently.


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## buffnut453 (Nov 24, 2020)

stona said:


> You do what you can to minimise the risk, as you are now.



I can do all within my power to minimize my risk...and then some asymptomatic yahoo with an anti-mask bee in his/her bonnet coughs near me and I'm scuppered. 

All I'm saying is that the wider population all needs to do its part...and do more of its part than it is doing right now. That process hasn't been helped by various messages by various individuals that "the young aren't affected". I know that's not the reality but it's often how it gets perceived, hence the ridiculous scenes in Florida during spring break...and nobody knows the impact of those events because there was no track-and-trace in place. And yet Americans wonder how we got to 12 million cases and 260K deaths. 

The frustrating part is that vaccines are clearly going to be available soon and yet, rather than just put off plans until the vaccine is readily available, people are pressing ahead and continuing to spread the disease regardless of the consequences.


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## buffnut453 (Nov 24, 2020)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> *Demanding your rights, without acknowledging your responsibilities is not freedom...*
> 
> *It is adolescence.*



Sorry but it's not that mature...it's an infantile temper tantrum.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 24, 2020)

buffnut453 said:


> Sorry but it's not that mature...it's an infantile temper tantrum.



Trust me I cannot have a conversation without some American with their veins popping out of their head screaming “Go ahead and wear a mask if you want to live in fear! You can’t make me!” It’s amazing how ridiculous we look as a county. We used to be a county that came together when things got tough, now we let political parties and leaders divide us and make us hate each other.

And that is the attitude that keeps this pandemic raging out of control. It’s not limited to masks either. It’s the entire thought process. People don’t get it. There is no need for total quarantine or lockdowns. The economy cannot handle it, and people will lose their jobs and livelihoods. But if we don’t want a total lockdown then we have to do the right things, and think about society as a whole. We need to protect our children at school. We need to protect our store workers. We need to protect our plant workers. We need to protect our food service workers. We need to protect our first responders. WE NEED TO PROTECT EACH OTHER. Wear a mask when in public. Wash your hands. Stay home when you are not feeling well. Social distance and avoid large gatherings. That does not mean you have to sit in your house isolated, have no life or work. Just stay away from unnecessary things that are not needed and put people at risk.

My oldest has been home from school for the last 2 weeks because kids in his class keep keep testing positive. Each one of those kids has a mother and a father, as well as elderly grandparents, and some possibly have high risk family members somewhere in their lives. If we do not take the necessary precautions or this virus seriously how do we expect our kids to learn?

How do we expect our economies to recover when entire workforces are being sent home. Parts of my company shut down every two weeks because dozens of employees become sick because they refuse to take the virus seriously. “I’m only 25. This virus cannot hurt me.” And they hang out at bars and refuse to wear a mask. Do you think the company’s profits are not being hurt? Got news for you. Two weeks can cost my company hundreds of millions of dollars. When the company lays off 30,000 employees because it cannot pay the wages because production has been shut down.

*So the “It only effects the old and vulnerable” is bullshit. It effects everyone.*

If people just put their big boy britches on, and do the right things. Then we don’t need lockdowns and quarantines. How anyone thinks life can go on even remotely like normal, or that the economy will recover when hospitals are overburdened and workplaces are riddled with infected people is beyond me. That or they are sticking their head in the sand.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 24, 2020)

And that is my final word. I’m not going to argue on the internet or ruin friendships (or allow them to ruin them).


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 24, 2020)

When people start complaining of wearing masks I bring up seat belts, I find the stuttering quite humorous.

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## Crimea_River (Nov 24, 2020)

While that's a good point, it's the wrong analogy. Seatbelts help save YOU. Masks help save OTHERS.

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## Marcel (Nov 24, 2020)

Guys, can you take the discussion about Covid somewhere else? To Facebook maybe? Or we’ll have to close the thread.

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## Crimea_River (Nov 24, 2020)

Why?


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## Marcel (Nov 24, 2020)

Chris and I fell into the same trap in the last version of this thread. I feel it’s not contributing to the forum and is turning ugly quite quickly. It’s not dissimilar to politics threads in that way.


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## Dash119 (Nov 24, 2020)

vikingBerserker said:


> When people start complaining of wearing masks I bring up seat belts, I find the stuttering quite humorous.





Crimea_River said:


> While that's a good point, it's the wrong analogy. Seatbelts help save YOU. Masks help save OTHERS.


I think Stop signs may be the better analogy... And masks help save everyone, including you.


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## Marcel (Nov 24, 2020)

Guys, I'm serious. I'm willing to let 

 Vincenzo
have his platform to post Covid reports, but not if all self acclaimed experts think it necessary to tell everybody what to do in that same thread. Leave that to the real experts, please. I don't care if you are right or wrong.

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## Crimea_River (Nov 24, 2020)

Well the last one got shut down and then this one started. It's the most urgent issue of our time and it deserves discussion. If not in this thread then maybe another. But don't just shut it down because people are debating and trying to understand a confusing but important subject.

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## TheMadPenguin (Nov 24, 2020)

Vincenzo said:


> In Italy most common underlying condition is the hypertension, more of 30% of the population has it, on the old side near 30% of population is over 60



Perhaps another factor contributing to differences in contagion and mortality is (AIUI) Italy has a higher incidence of multi-generational households than the US. Having youngers go out to school/work and coming home to elders perhaps increases the likelihood of the young bringing the virus home to the old.

Having read the Great Barrington Declaration, I'm reminded of my toddlerhood, where parents gathered their children into the house of a child with chickenpox to get everybody "vaccinated". Should we send the healthy out to get & get over this flu, in isolation from the vulnerable, then hope said recovered-ones are not vectors to infect the vulnerable? Perhaps the hope (I don't know of test results) that the plasma of the recovered ones will convey immunity to the vulnerable?


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## Vincenzo (Nov 24, 2020)

TheMadPenguin, i've not study on multi-generational households, from my limited experience this was common when i was a boy*, i and my family lived with my paternal grandfather and many friend lived with their, but today i've difficult to find just one 3 generation family in the my friends circle, but there are surely strict contact with grandparents also if not lived with them.

* at time all my family (of 4) had just one bedroom, we gained the second bedroom only after my grandfather gone, other era and i'm not so old


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## ThomasP (Nov 24, 2020)

The ideas in the Great Barrington Declaration would have at least a small argument for validity if it addressed the 2 main problems of pandemics such as this one. Something that I think (If I am wrong I apologize) many people are forgetting.

The main purpose of the measures that have been taken so far and are recommended by the WHO and CDC (and similar agencies of most other nations) is to slow the spread of the virus to a manageable level. The secondary purpose is to try to keep the body count down in the short run. Possibly you could argue that the two effects are equally important in the intent behind the measures.

Without some sort of restrictions on movement and socialization there is no practical way to lower the rate of spread, thereby keeping the healthcare system from becoming overloaded. If we do not keep the rate of spread down and prevent the healthcare system from becoming overloaded, we cannot keep the kill rate down in the short run.

This consequence is basically not deniable in any competent manner. Another effect of keeping the rate of spread down is to buy time for the development and distribution of a vaccine. Without a vaccine, there is no practical way to keep the kill rate down in the long run.

Here in Minnesota, because we cannot rely on (insert what ever % makes you happy here) of the general population to adhere to lesser restrictions, we have had to reinstitute business closures and add in things like mask wearing. Masks have some effect, probably about (again, insert whatever % makes you happy here) in reducing the rate of spread.

Since the rate of spread and kill rate in the US and (insert here whatever other countries you feel are having problems) is very much higher than in countries that have taken similar or more strict measures (countries where the population adhered to the restrictions - for whatever reason) there is clear evidence that having (the percentage of population entered above) not adhere to the restrictions is enough to seriously interfere with the potential beneficial effects.

For countries that have been doing it right see:

Australia
Japan
New Zealand
Singapore
South Korea
Taiwan
Vietnam
etc.

As a contrast, keeping in mind that Minnesota is doing better than most US states. The new lock-down in Minnesota took effect on Friday at normal end-of-business day or Midnight, whichever was later. All bars in Minnesota are now closed (except for take-out and delivery). On Saturday the bars in our neighboring state of Wisconsin, at least the ones close to Minnesota, were actually relatively crowded due to the influx of Minnesotans. It is estimated that more than 15,000 Minnesotans went to bars in Wisconsin over the weekend. Similar events occurred over the South Dakota and North Dakota borders, although in lesser numbers. Minnesota has a 13% positivity rate. North Dakota has a 13% positivity rate. Wisconsin has a 30% positivity rate. South Dakota has a 50%+ positivity rate.


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## Marcel (Nov 25, 2020)

Crimea_River said:


> Well the last one got shut down and then this one started. It's the most urgent issue of our time and it deserves discussion. If not in this thread then maybe another. But don't just shut it down because people are debating and trying to understand a confusing but important subject.


 it’s been debated all over the internet, so you have plenty of opportunity to discuss it. And everybody thinks they are experts while they are just adding to the confusion. 

I leave it open for now, but if I see anybody being disrespectful to another member because they don’t share their views, I will close it.


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 25, 2020)

That's very interesting Thomas, based on your list I wonder if Race/Ethnicity comes into play in Southeast Asia. One of the aspects noted are people with low Vitamin D levels seem to be more susceptible to the Virus (and this issue occurs in some races more than others). I wonder if something else is going on that is making the peoples of that area less likely to catch it as well.


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## ThomasP (Nov 26, 2020)

Hey vikingBerserker,

[edit: I added Australia to my original list above.]

I do not think it is a matter of race, or ethnicity as such. These countries governments and population simply took the threat seriously from the beginning, plus some of them have more recent experience in dealing with epidemics/pandemics. Various countries from all over the world have done much better than the US as well, countries not included in the Southeast Asia group in regard to race or ethnicity (India, Bangladesh, Pakistan . . . all from what is considered South Asia - Norway, Finland, Latvia, Estonia, have all done very well . . . Sweden however . . . all from Northern Europe - etc). Check out the Worldometer website if you have not already done so and you will see what I mean. Some of the countries' stats are not up to date or complete, and some probably should not be relied upon for accuracy, but most countries are open enough to the press and international health agencies that the numbers can be considered "close enough" for our purposes.

If we factor in things like climate and ease of isolation - the UK should be in the same ballpark as Japan, but it is not - Israel should be doing as well as most of its Eastern Mediterranean and Middle East neighbors, but it is not - etc.

The only thing I have been able to isolate so far that is probably a major contributing factor to the differences in kill rate is whether the countries have concentrated populations of the vulnerable elderly - ie if long term care facilities for the old are common. England and my home state of Minnesota are good examples of this - in both instances we were unable to keep the initial spread out of our elderly care facilities. But this would not even begin to explain the differences in rate of spread since the late summer, and the current kill rates.

Here in the US we are at ~2000 deaths per day due to COVID-19, and - based on the rate of spread and confirmed case/hospitalization rates - we will be seeing 4000+ deaths per day by the end of the year.

Time for some funny cat pictures for me I think.

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## Vincenzo (Nov 26, 2020)

% test positive, worldometers data for yesterday
Estonia 2.4% (positive/test) (34.6% test/population)
Latvia 2.4% (31.7%)
Finland 1.2% (33.8%)
Norway 1.6% (40.1%)

Sweden 7.9% (28.8%) they not do/did lock down

Pakistan 7.2% (2.4%)
Bangladesh 16.8% (1.6%)
India 6.9% (9.7%)

adding country from older post
Australia 0.3% (38.4%)
Japan 4.1% (2.6%)
New Zealand 0.2% (24.9%)
Singapore 1.3% (75.8%)
South Korea 1.1% (5.8%)
Taiwan 0.6% (0.5%)
Vietnam 0.1% (1.4%)

for comparison
USA 7% (56.1%)
Italy 7.1% (34.7%)
Germany 3.5% (33.2%)
Netherlands 12.8% (22.7%)

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## TheMadPenguin (Nov 27, 2020)

Q to board mods: Is this politics, or humor? I can't tell.

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## Marcel (Nov 28, 2020)

TheMadPenguin said:


> View attachment 603233
> 
> Q to board mods: Is this politics, or humor? I can't tell.


It’s okay, just a bit of fun

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## Vincenzo (Nov 29, 2020)

Italy report, 29th November, weekly changes
cases 1,585,178, +176,310, deaths 54,904 +5,081, recovered 734,503, +181,405, active cases 795,771, -10,176*, tests 21,814,575, +1,425,599, people tested 12,922,382, +696,532
* 1st week go down in the 2nd wave
fatality rate 3.5% (=)
mortality rate 910 per million (+84)
test rate 361.7 per thousand (+23.7)
positive rate 12.3% (+0.8)
test rate this week 23,635 per million (-1,403)
positive rate this week 25.3% (-3.1)
new case rate this week 2,923 per million (-896)

my town is to 69 total cases, a 4th death

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## buffnut453 (Nov 29, 2020)

T’was a month before Christmas 
And all through the town,
People wore masks,
That covered their frown.
The frown had begun
Way back in the Spring,
When a global pandemic
Changed everything.
They called it corona,
But unlike the beer,
It didn’t bring good times,
It didn’t bring cheer.
Contagious and deadly,
This virus spread fast,
Like a wildfire that starts
When fuelled by gas.
Airplanes were grounded,
Travel was banned.
Borders were closed
Across air, sea and land.
As the world entered lockdown
To flatten the curve,
The economy halted,
And folks lost their nerve.
From March to July
We rode the first wave,
People stayed home,
They tried to behave.
When summer emerged
The lockdown was lifted.
But away from caution,
Many folks drifted.
Now it’s November
And cases are spiking,
Wave two has arrived,
Much to our disliking.
Frontline workers,
Doctors and nurses,
Try to save people,
From riding in hearses.
This virus is awful,
This COVID-19.
There isn’t a cure.
There is no vaccine.
It’s true that this year
Has had sadness a plenty,
We’ll never forget
The year 2020.
And just ‘round the corner -
The holiday season,
But why be merry?
Is there even one reason?
To decorate the house
And put up the tree,
When no one will see it,
No-one but me.
But outside my window
The snow gently falls,
And I think to myself,
Let’s deck the halls!
So, I gather the ribbon,
The garland and bows,
As I play those old carols,
My happiness grows.
Christmas ain’t cancelled
And neither is hope.
If we lean on each other,
I know we can cope.

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## Vincenzo (Dec 6, 2020)

Italy report, 6th December, weekly changes
cases 1,728,878, +143,700, deaths 60,078 +5,174, recovered 913,494, +178,991, active cases 755,306, -40,465, tests 23,125,664, +1,311,089, people tested 13,510,154, +587,772
fatality rate 3.5% (=)
mortality rate 996 per million (+86)
test rate 383.4 per thousand (+21.7)
positive rate 12.8% (+0.5)
test rate this week 21,737 per million (-1,898)
positive rate this week 24.4% (-0.9)
new case rate this week 2,382 per million (-541)

in my town of the 69 total cases, 4 are active

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## ThomasP (Dec 8, 2020)

Minnesota report, December 7

total cases 356,152(+5,296), total recovered 314,138, total hospitalized 18,358/4,015(1,205/362)*, total deaths 4,005(+21), total tests 4,623,492**/***(+63,360)
fatality rate 1.1%
mortality rate 702.6 per million
test rate 811.1 per thousand
positive rate 7.7%***

*The current cases hospitalized and in ICU.
**This number is the total number of tests that have been processed.
***The actual total number of individuals that have received 1 or more tests is 2,669,121, so the actual per capita positivity rate is 13.3%.

Addition to the Minnesota report.

Minnesota as a whole, is currently operating at 88% of hospital capacity. In detail, 30% of Minnesota hospitals with ICUs are maxed out or overloaded, and 25% of Minnesota hospitals are at/or over maximum non-ICU capacity. Part of this is due to the beginning of the winter flu season, with the more serious flu cases piling on top of the more serious COVID-19 cases.

Minnesotans continue to travel over the border to go to bars and restaurants. This last weekend there were so many Minnesotans in the border town of Hudson, Wisconsin that the bars and downtown area were crowded during and after bar rush. Wisconsin has now complained to Minnesota that the people crossing the border are overloading the local police departments - due primarily to drunk driving, drunk&disorderly, and simple assault crimes.

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## michaelmaltby (Dec 8, 2020)

vikingBerserker said:


> I wonder if something else is going on that is making the peoples of that area less likely to catch it as well.


... a possibility is _previous exposure_ to a similar covid-strain that was regional but never went _pandemic_ .. this 'theory' has been postulated to account for the Chinese population's first responded back last January .... and let's be honest ..... we in the West put our immune systems at risk - letting them get lazy and bored - by doing everything under the sun to _avoid _immune system 'challenges'. 
Kids should eat 'dirt' IMO and adults shouldn't stop ....

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## Vincenzo (Dec 13, 2020)

Italy report, 13th December, weekly changes
cases 1,843,712, +114,834, deaths 64,520 +4,442*, recovered 1,093,161, +179,667, active cases 686,031, -69,275, tests 24,215,726, +1,090,062, people tested 13,971,600, +461,446
* first time growth go down in the 2nd wave
fatality rate 3.5% (=)
mortality rate 1,070 per million (+74)
test rate 401.5 per thousand (+18.1)
positive rate 13.2% (+0.4)
test rate this week 18,072 per million (-3,665)
positive rate this week 24.9% (+0.5)
new case rate this week 1,904 per million (-478)

My town Mayor told me that he not more do news on the covid infections, as last there were 7 active cases yesterday

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## Vincenzo (Dec 20, 2020)

Italy report, 20th December, weekly changes
cases 1,953,185, +109,473, deaths 68,799 +4,279, recovered 1,261,626, +168,465, active cases 622,760, -63,271, tests 25,129,125, +913,399, people tested 14,289,494, +317,894
fatality rate 3.5% (=)
mortality rate 1,141 per million (+71)
test rate 416.6 per thousand (+15.1)
positive rate 13.7% (+0.5)
test rate this week 15,143 per million (-2,929)
positive rate this week 34.4% (+9.5)* *this is not good or is very bad
new case rate this week 1,815 per million (-89)

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## nuuumannn (Dec 20, 2020)

buffnut453 said:


> And just ‘round the corner -
> The holiday season,
> But why be merry?
> Is there even one reason?
> ...



Meanwhile, in New Zealand...

Highlights | PRADA Christmas Race - YouTube 

The most astounding evidence that life is returning to normal (whatever that might be) is the preliminaries for the America's Cup yacht races. Overseas teams competing out on the water surrounded by spectators and not a mask in sight. Oh, and the racing is spectacular - those big AC75 foiling yachts are amazing to watch, reaching speeds in excess of 30 knots. (yes, I know, perhaps not the best thing during a global pandemic, but just saying, if more countries chose to manage the pandemic better than what they have been, things around the world _could_ be very different.)

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## N4521U (Dec 20, 2020)

Meanwhile in New South Wales Australia.....
We are locked in to our state. North, South and West they just don't want us any more.
Was planning a trip to Melbourne to visit Bru in law, that is out as the Greater Sydney area is a Red zone!
All because a few Idiots don't have "testing" in their vocabulary.
Including Airline crew. One of which went out On the Town while on a layover and f****d it up.
And....... an infected band member played all over the Northern beaches, Bondi and the like and spread 19 all over.
Now many cases are springing up and as a consequence, we are in lock down.

Yacht racing nuuumann!
My favorite, Sydney to Hobart has been cancelled because Tasmania doesn't want to re-introduce the virus.
Don't blame them! But, damn, I like to keep up with the progress of this race!!

My kids and their kids are in the S.F. Bay area. Haven't a clue what's going on there!

Stay safe!

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## GrauGeist (Dec 21, 2020)

michaelmaltby said:


> ... a possibility is _previous exposure_ to a similar covid-strain that was regional but never went _pandemic_ .. this 'theory' has been postulated to account for the Chinese population's first responded back last January .... and let's be honest ..... we in the West put our immune systems at risk - letting them get lazy and bored - by doing everything under the sun to _avoid _immune system 'challenges'.
> Kids should eat 'dirt' IMO and adults shouldn't stop ....


Here in California, a second "surge" strated in October and everyone was running around trying to pin the blame on anything under the sun (Halloween parties, church worship, Christmas shopping, etc.) - but history shows that every single pandemic (or epidemic) in the past few hundred years has had a second "surge" in the fall of that particular year.
It may be due to colder temps driving people indoors, spending more time in enclosed areas or whatever, but the fact remains that there has always been a second spike before the virus receeds.

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## nuuumannn (Dec 21, 2020)

N4521U said:


> My favorite, Sydney to Hobart has been cancelled because Tasmania doesn't want to re-introduce the virus. Don't blame them! But, damn, I like to keep up with the progress of this race!!



Yup, I have a passing interest in the Sydney to Hobart, but the AC is happening now and has piqued a lot of people's interest because of the global situation, not to mention that the race courses can be seen from land relatively easily, which means massive spectator numbers - gives people an excuse to go out and do something different after what has been a trying year for everyone.

Keep safe too, mate. Hoping to visit Aussie sometime soon. I used to live there and have friends and family in NSW, ACT and QLD, so hopefully the trans-tasman bubble will get to include the whole country.

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## N4521U (Dec 22, 2020)

nuuumannn said:


> Keep safe too, mate. Hoping to visit Aussie sometime soon. I used to live there and have friends and family in NSW, ACT and QLD, so hopefully the trans-tasman bubble will get to include the whole country.



So wherebouts did you live?

Tassie, QLD and VIC are still not allowing NSW in under any circumstances.
QLD and VIC are finding Covid people who have Returned to their states from NSW.
And now NSW has the UK strain from incoming airline passengers!
What a mes this is cusing. Like the US a lot of people are more concerned with their own incomes than the infection rates.

Bill

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## at6 (Dec 22, 2020)

Latest reports locally indicate 5000 new infections and 89 new deaths in the past 48 hours. When the ICUs have absolutely zero beads there is talk of shutting down ALL retail activity here. With the new Covid will 2021 be any better than 2020?

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## TheMadPenguin (Dec 23, 2020)

NOT just to kick a "paper onion": Mask Mandates Seem to Make CCP Virus Infection Rates Climb, Study Says

Is there any published statistical/medical analysis that concludes to the contrary?

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 23, 2020)

As soon as I saw it was the Epoch Times, I just closed the link. Its a terrible source of far right biased opinion and less than fact based news. Its touted by Qanon (a pathetic joke of a movement) and conspiracy theorists.


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## TheMadPenguin (Dec 23, 2020)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> As soon as I saw it was the Epoch Times, I just closed the link. Its a terrible source of far right biased opinion and less than fact based news.



So you missed the point where this was PREPARED by FACT-based ANALYSTS who were not in the employ of any far-anything group and REPORTED in Epoch Times.

Far-left media, like Yahoo, NYT, Hufffpo, won't carry anything inconsistent with the Public Panic Pandemic. Enough with the left-right slamming.

So I repeat: Is there any published statistical/medical analysis that concludes to the contrary?

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 23, 2020)

TheMadPenguin said:


> So you missed the point where this was PREPARED by FACT-based ANALYSTS who were not in the employ of any far-anything group and REPORTED in Epoch Times.
> 
> Far-left media, like Yahoo, NYT, Hufffpo, won't carry anything inconsistent with the Public Panic Pandemic. Enough with the left-right slamming.
> 
> So I repeat: Is there any published statistical/medical analysis that concludes to the contrary?



You CAN PUT WHATEVER YOU WANT IN AN ARTICLE? WHO CHECKED THIS FACT BASED ANALYSIS?

The Epoch times is affiliated with a Chinese based religious group, and is known a spreader of FAKE NEWS and misinformation, especially far right FAKE NEWS.

This not about left vs. right. Far left FAKE NEWS is just as bad. How about getting NEWS that is actually NEWS and not just biased dribble that tells you what you want to hear? JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT SOMETHING TO BE TRUE, DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE. Even when your political handlers are telling you it is true. IF THEY TELL YOU A LIE LONG ENOUGH IT BECOMES THE TRUTH RIGHT?

Try getting information from scientific peer reviewed journals, and not political misinformation campaigns.

Medical experts have shown that when masks are worn properly in conjunction with necessary precautions they reduce transmission. When people don’t wear them properly, and take all necessary precautions it does the opposite. Studies from around the world (places that have no dog in this political bullshit of fight we have here in the US) back this up. 

There are conflicting studies, but the data backs up that mask use when done properly reduces transmission. The article below talks a lil about the conflicting reports, and also says that data supports masks when properly worn.

*Face masks: what the data say*

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 23, 2020)

God I hate this thread, yet I continually get sucked back into it.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 23, 2020)

So, yes there probably is some truth and facts to what your article says, but what is the context? What do all the studies say? Science is constantly peer reviewed, and literature is constantly reviewed in these studies. Literature that supports both sides of the argument. That is why biased news sources such as Epoch Times and Huffpost are so bad. They only report their side of the truth. Left and right leaning are guilty of this.

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## TheMadPenguin (Dec 23, 2020)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> *Face masks: what the data say*


I am now reading what you linked.
So far it seems a story with facts stirred in (as in paragraph 1+), and NOT a study/analysis of available data and NOT something peer-reviewed.

Is there any published statistical/medical analysis that concludes for or against The Mouth Diaper? I'm referring to the cloth/paper masks commonly distributed at store fronts or sold at WalMart.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 23, 2020)

TheMadPenguin said:


> I am now reading what you linked.
> So far it seems a story with facts stirred in (as in paragraph 1+), and NOT a study/analysis of available data and NOT something peer-reviewed.
> 
> Is there any published statistical/medical analysis that concludes for or against The Mouth Diaper? I'm referring to the cloth/paper masks commonly distributed at store fronts or sold at WalMart.



Nice try...

Which is different from your article how? You posted a story with facts stirred in, and NOT a study/analysis of available data and NOT something peer-reviewed. You posted a political leaning media news source reporting one side if the story. Its side of the story. THE SIDE OF THE STORY ITS READERS WANT TO HEAR.

At least I provided a link to a scholarly source. Nature (what my link is) is a scholarly journal that features peer reviewed scientific research. It is not a politically biased questionable media source known for spreading Fake News, and Qanon conspiracy theories. The article is summarizing scientific research studies. At the bottom of it, you will find links to the peer reviewed scientific journal articles (which you may or may not have access too) that this article summarizes and backs up the information.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 23, 2020)

Either way, I need to follow Marcel’s lead and stop coming into this thread. People have made up their mind based off of their leanings and choice of opinion based media. Everyone. There is no convincing (any of us) or changing of minds. And in the end we get into this sort of dribble.

Merry stolen pagan holiday to you all!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 23, 2020)

TheMadPenguin


My apologies for jumping on you. It was not personal, and I should not have done it. I’m under a lot of stupid stress lately, between my work and my Masters studies, and trying to balance that with my home life. I get kind of short fused some times. I need to work on that.

Having said that, when people use politically biased media sources it does set me off. Not just right leaning ones. As I said the left leaning ones are just as bad. Neither tells the entire story, just their side of it sprinkled with facts that only support their side.

Either way, my apologies, and Merry Christmas to you and your family.

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## Marcel (Dec 23, 2020)

Same with everybody, Chris. But that's indeed why I avoid this thread nowadays. I do read it just to step in if things go out of hand, but I refrain from commenting. Luckily I haven't had step in until now.


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## Vincenzo (Dec 23, 2020)

TheMadPenguin said:


> So you missed the point where this was PREPARED by FACT-based ANALYSTS who were not in the employ of any far-anything group and REPORTED in Epoch Times.
> 
> Far-left media, like Yahoo, NYT, Hufffpo, won't carry anything inconsistent with the Public Panic Pandemic. Enough with the left-right slamming.
> 
> So I repeat: Is there any published statistical/medical analysis that concludes to the contrary?




i'm very sorry for the reply
if you think that Yahoo, NYT, Huffpo are far left, you live in alternate realty, they are center right media, it's true i'm from a country that get a communist party around the 30% in the mid 70s to mid 80 and so my background is very different from that also a Sanders supporter in the USA, but there is a limit to everything.


p.s. also if i dislike if can't post more my reports, i understand if the thread will close


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 23, 2020)

Vincenzo said:


> i'm very sorry for the reply
> if you think that Yahoo, NYT, Huffpo are far left, you live in alternate realty, they are center right media, it's true i'm from a country that get a communist party around the 30% in the mid 70s to mid 80 and so my background is very different from that also a Sanders supporter in the USA, but there is a limit to everything



What the US considers left and right often differ from the rest of the world. Take fascism and national socialism. Americans see that boogieman of a word and argue that they are far left, when in reality are far right on the spectrum because of their nationalist views. The other aspect of it is economic, but they are still right wing.

We are diving too far into politics, though, my friend, and we better leave that under table.

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## N4521U (Dec 23, 2020)

My understanding, or what has been stated here in Oz if I recollect correctly.
Masks worn should Not be handled over and over.
Reusable cloth masks should be washed before reused.
Hands washed after handling and care should be taken to Not turn them Inside Out.
But masks Not being ineffective is just silly thinking and something a halfwit would publish.
My 2 cents worth!


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## nuuumannn (Dec 23, 2020)

N4521U said:


> So wherebouts did you live?



Spent all my time in QLD on the Gold Coast. Loved it - great place for a teenager to grow up. Transient tourist town; 24 hour party - at least it was back in the 80s!

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## nuuumannn (Dec 23, 2020)

It is mandatory for masks to be worn on air travel in New Zealand. No mask, no fly. Disposable masks are handed out free and there are bins at the arrivals gate so they are not taken into the terminal. There are PPE kits placed in every aircraft for the cabin crew's own safety, so it's taken seriously here, even though Covid is not as much of a risk internally, but cases still crop up in quarantine facilities. 

I was doing some work training and the company training school is near Auckland Airport across the road from one of the quarantine sites, an international hotel. It's like something from a zombie movie, big wire fences erected around the edge and covered with black bin liner so no one can see in, bollards blocking the entrances, massive security presence, weeds growing in the concrete, all the bushes overgrown...

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## Vincenzo (Dec 28, 2020)

Italy report, 27th December, weekly changes (holiday probably have influenced this week data)
cases 2,047,696 +94,511, deaths 71,925 +3,126, recovered 1,394,011, +132,385, active cases 581,760, -41,000, tests 26,046,137, +917,012, people tested 14,656,053, +366,559
fatality rate 3.5% (=)
mortality rate 1,192 per million (+51)
test rate 431.8 per thousand (+15.2)
positive rate 14% (+0.3)
test rate this week 15,203 per million (+60)
positive rate this week 25.8% (-8.6)
new case rate this week 1,567 per million (-248)

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## Greg Boeser (Dec 28, 2020)

Minnesota as of 24 DEC 2020
Total fatal cases: 5050
Median age of fatal cases: 83
Number of fatal cases under the age of 30: 10 
Pediatric deaths: 1 (this is lower than pediatric influenza deaths in all but one of the last eight years)
Under the age of 40: 39
under the age of 50: 104

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## N4521U (Dec 29, 2020)

They somehow keep forgetting to add Tasmania????????????????????


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## Greg Boeser (Dec 29, 2020)

That's because it is part of Hell. You know, Tasmanian Devils?


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## TheMadPenguin (Dec 29, 2020)

Greg Boeser said:


> That's because it is part of Hell. You know, Tasmanian Devils?


Hell is in Michigan, and it's frozen over. Hell, Michigan

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## Greg Boeser (Dec 29, 2020)

Well, I'll be damned.

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## Vincenzo (Jan 3, 2021)

Italy report, 3rd January, weekly changes (holiday probably have influenced this week and previous week data)
cases 2,155,446 +107,750, deaths 75,332 +3,407, recovered 1,503,900, +109,889, active cases 576,214, -5,546, tests 26,926,279, +880,142, people tested 15,016,737, +360,684, people vaccinated 84,730, new
fatality rate 3.5% (=)
mortality rate 1,249 per million (+57)
test rate 446.4 per thousand (+14.6)
positive rate 14.4% (+0.4)
vaccinated on population 1,405 per million
test rate this week 14,592 per million (-611)
positive rate this week 29.9% (+4.1)
new case rate this week 1,786 per million (+218)

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## N4521U (Jan 3, 2021)

One death every 10 min in LA?

NSW has 7 new cases, $200 fine for Not wearing a mask.
Fine or closure of venues Not displaying the Scan Codes for visitors.
That, is the way!

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## fubar57 (Jan 3, 2021)

In B.C., fines start a $230


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## N4521U (Jan 3, 2021)

200 hurts more here


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## Vincenzo (Jan 3, 2021)

Cheap, here from 400 Euro, and is compulsory also in the open


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## nuuumannn (Jan 3, 2021)

N4521U said:


> They somehow keep forgetting to add Tasmania????????????????????



They probably think it's part of New Zealand!

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## at6 (Jan 4, 2021)

What? Tasmania isn't part of New Zealand?


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## Marcel (Jan 4, 2021)

Wife is going for the Covid test. Don't think it is it, but fingers crossed. I hope they will hurry up with the vaccines. I'm quite excited about the new mRNA vaccines that are being used for the first time in a large scale. It's quite a scientific breakthrough in my opinion.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 4, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Wife is going for the Covid test. Don't think it is it, but fingers crossed. I hope they will hurry up with the vaccines. I'm quite excited about the new mRNA vaccines that are being used for the first time in a large scale. It's quite a scientific breakthrough in my opinion.



It really is interesting. Many here are scared to take it. I assume its because they get their science from Facebook or Qanon and Q (This pig farmer living in the Philippines). I’m not going to lie, I have some reservations about it, but that is mostly about whether they will be effective with an ever changing virus.


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## Marcel (Jan 4, 2021)

That's indeed the question, but that counts for all vaccines. If the spikes change, you'll have to create a new one. The advantage of using mRNA though is that adapting the vaccine is a breeze compared to the original mutulated virus approach or injecting the spike proteins. I'm less afraid for these mRNA injections as they don't contain any intact virusses at all. I read the testing reports and they are quite encouraging.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 4, 2021)

Marcel said:


> That's indeed the question, but that counts for all vaccines. If the spikes change, you'll have to create a new one. The advantage of using mRNA though is that adapting the vaccine is a breeze compared to the original mutulated virus approach or injecting the spike proteins. I'm less afraid for these mRNA injections as they don't contain any intact virusses at all. I read the testing reports and they are quite encouraging.



I’m expecting to take it when I can. Airlines are probably going to require it, and since my job requires travel I expect my company to make sure I get it as soon as possible. Plus I need to get on a plane and get back to Europe. I need to see my family again, as well as get away from all the craziness here.


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## Marcel (Jan 4, 2021)

Expect to have some side effects though. I read that 50% of the testgroup for the NIHi/Moderna vaccine showed mild symptomes like head ache, muscle pain and tiredness. It should subside within a few days at most though.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 4, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Expect to have some side effects though. I read that 50% of the testgroup for the NIHi/Moderna vaccine showed mild symptomes like head ache, muscle pain and tiredness. It should subside within a few days at most though.



Can happen with any vaccine.


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## Crimea_River (Jan 4, 2021)

I will probably get vaccinated as well but won't be surprised if my turn doesn't show up until next Christmas. TBH, my concern over the new mRNA vaccine is that I have seen nothing that would set my mind at ease about potential long term effects.


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## Marcel (Jan 4, 2021)

Crimea_River said:


> I will probably get vaccinated as well but won't be surprised if my turn doesn't show up until next Christmas. TBH, my concern over the new mRNA vaccine is that I have seen nothing that would set my mind at ease about potential long term effects.


True, the technique has never been used in this scale yet, so it's a bit hard to be sure. But at the moment there are no indications that it will have more effects than normal vaccines and I don’t think it will. First of all mRNA is highly unstable so it will be only active for a short period of time. The transcription is a fully natural proces. Second, encaptiulation of RNA in the DNA seems to be unlikely. Third of all, a virus injects way more mRNA in your cells than this vaccine.

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## Marcel (Jan 4, 2021)

Found an article readable for non-biologists which gives a bit of background to these mRNA vaccines: COVID-19 vaccines are safe, even with long-term data lacking

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## Crimea_River (Jan 4, 2021)

Thanks Marcel. Will take a look.


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## at6 (Jan 4, 2021)

I might want the vaccine but I will wait to see if any of you who get it first grow tails, long ears, and a third eye in the forehead.

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## Marcel (Jan 4, 2021)

at6 said:


> I might want the vaccine but I will wait to see if any of you who get it first grow tails, long ears, and a third eye in the forehead.


I've worked in a lab for years, so I have got all of that for a long time. Perspective is sometimes skewed by the 3rd eye unfortunately, the tail can come in very handy sometimes.

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## Greg Boeser (Jan 4, 2021)

Is it prehensile?

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## at6 (Jan 5, 2021)

New more infectious strains now in California as if we needed it. We're told that as bad as things are now, it is only going to get worse.


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## N4521U (Jan 5, 2021)

I'm hoping it will Restore what Prostate cancer has Taken Away!!!!!!!!!

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## TheMadPenguin (Jan 5, 2021)

N4521U said:


> I'm hoping it will Restore what Prostate cancer has Taken Away!!!!!!!!!


Yeah ... I'm hard up for a cure for the side-effects of treatment for PCa!

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## N4521U (Jan 6, 2021)

TheMadPenguin said:


> Yeah ... I'm hard up for a cure for the side-effects of treatment for PCa!



Hard up, good choice of words!!!!

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## Crimea_River (Jan 6, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Found an article readable for non-biologists which gives a bit of background to these mRNA vaccines: COVID-19 vaccines are safe, even with long-term data lacking



The article is informative but the following quote from it pretty much sums up my remaining concern.

"We will have more long-term safety information as we go on," says Magdalena Plebanski, professor of immunology at RMIT University in Melbourne, Australia. "But can the world wait those two years for the vaccine?"


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## Marcel (Jan 6, 2021)

yeah it's not that there is no risk, but on the other hand, mRNA threadment has been used on cancer patients since 2011, research on these vaccins started in 1989 and first vaccins like this on mamals were already used in the '90ies. As a scientist, one has to acknowledge that until it is proven that there are no longterm effects. I this case it is not proven, so you have to say it is possible. At the moment it doesn't look likely though.
I myself feel a lot more confortable getting an mRNA vaccin than a heat-treated mutilated live virus as a vaccine. Think of it this way, the vaccine doesn't do anything different than the virus would do, apart from the fact that this controlled mRNA moleucure only codes for a very small part of the virus particle (spike proteins) while the virus inject quite a bit more mRNA in your cells, producing the whole virus structure.

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## Vincenzo (Jan 10, 2021)

Italy report, 10th January, weekly changes (holiday probably have influenced previous week data)
cases 2,276,491 +121,045, deaths 78,755 +3,423, recovered 1,617,804, +113,904, active cases 579,932, +3,718, tests 27,891,393, +965,114, people tested 15,422,188, +405,451, people vaccinated 643,219, +558,489
fatality rate 3.5% (=)
mortality rate 1,306 per million (+57)
test rate 462.4 per thousand (+16)
positive rate 14.8% (+0.4)
vaccinated on population 10,664 per million (+9,259)
test rate this week 16,001 per million (+1,409)
positive rate this week 29.9% (=)
new case rate this week 2,008 per million (+221) 
new vaccinated this week 9,259 per million (+7,854)

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## Vincenzo (Jan 11, 2021)

First Italian Covid-19 case go back to November '19
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bjd.19804

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## TheMadPenguin (Jan 11, 2021)

Vincenzo said:


> First Italian Covid-19 case go back to November '19
> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bjd.19804


I wonder this person's travel history... the article doesn't touch the subject.


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## michaelmaltby (Jan 11, 2021)

This Milan-China connection which the Italian Gov't 'sanctioned'into being is the linch-pin to the whole 'pandemic' explosion ... the connection between the two (leather fashion wear) combined with lax response by Government cadre-officials to warnings FROM THE MILITARY in November' .... combined with Chinese New Year ... and you have your perfect storm, God help us.

Appeciate your coverage of this Vincenzo

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## Marcel (Jan 13, 2021)

I thought this was funny

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## Bucksnort101 (Jan 13, 2021)

Yep, I can see that little micro-chip floating at about the halfway level between line 1 and 2. Sneaky buggers!

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## TheMadPenguin (Jan 13, 2021)

The one on the right propagates viruses faster than the virus the vaccine resists, and itself propagates faster. No?

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## Vincenzo (Jan 17, 2021)

Italy report, 17th January, weekly changes
cases 2,381,277 +104,786, deaths 82,177 +3,422, recovered 1,745,726, +127,922, active cases 553,374, -26,558, tests 28,910,309, +1,018,916, people tested 15,889,027, +466,839, vaccines administered* 1,147,373, +504,154 * i've changed because from today start the 2nd vaccine but there is no separate informations
fatality rate 3.5% (=)
mortality rate 1,362 per million (+56)
test rate 479.3 per thousand (+16.9)
positive rate 15% (+0.2)
vaccines on population 19,022 per million (+8,358)
test rate this week 16,893 per million (+892)
positive rate this week 22.4% (-7.5)
new case rate this week 1,737 per million (-271)
new vaccines this week 8,358 per million (-901)

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## ThomasP (Jan 20, 2021)

Minnesota report, January 19

total cases 448,268(+922), total recovered 431,096, total hospitalized 23,517/4,895(474/110)*, total deaths 5,945(+6), total tests 6,118,091**/***(+14,467)****
fatality rate 1.3%(+0.2% since December 7)
mortality rate 1061.6(+359 since December 7) per million
test rate 1092.5(+281.4 since December 7) per thousand
positive rate 7.3%(-0.4% since December 7)***/****

*The current cases hospitalized and in ICU. This number is down from 1,205/362 on December 7 to 474/110 today, or a decrease of ~63%. It is down from a high of 1,471/393 on November 29.
**This number is the total number of tests that have been processed.
***The actual total number of individuals that have received 1 or more tests is 3,156,853, so the actual per capita overall positivity rate is 14.2%(+0.9% since December 7).
****The current daily positivity rate is ~6%, down from ~17% shortly after the second lockdown began on November 13.

On December 7 Minnesota as a whole was operating at 88% of hospital capacity. In detail, 30% of Minnesota hospitals with ICUs were maxed out or overloaded, and 25% of Minnesota hospitals were at/or over maximum non-ICU capacity. Today, Minnesota as a whole is operating at ~78% of hospital capacity. In detail, 25% of of Minnesota hospitals with ICUs (nearly all of them in the Twin Cities Metro area) are at near maximum capacity, but there are no ICUs overloaded.

Note the decrease in load on the hospitals since December 7. This is what is meant by keeping the hospitals from being overloaded due to COVID-19.

The reduced rate of spread and easing of the work load on hospitals is almost entirely due to 2 things - Minnesota's second lockdown imposed on November 13, and that people are taking things more seriously. Mask wearing (regardless of how effective/ineffective it is) is now the norm around the metro area, in any indoor situation or close proximity situation outdoors. This is just my estimate but I would say that about 98% of people in the metro area are now obeying the mask order. It is still somewhat spotty in the more rural areas, and it is difficult for me to estimate how many are complying with the mask order, but I would say about 50-60% in the towns I visit while delivering packages (as opposed to almost none before the second lockdown).


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## TheMadPenguin (Jan 21, 2021)

I'm a year+ behind the curve, but nobody else mentioned this so I thought I'd do so:
from Wiki:
During the 2019 Military War Games held in Wuhan 16-27 Oct 2019: A large number of athletes from different delegations around the world had fallen ill with unusual symptoms during the games which some attribute to COVID-19, including returning French athletes Élodie Clouvel and Valentin Belaud; most have not been tested, and are under suppression orders as military authorities asserted that it would be impossible in any event to determine exactly when the infection had occurred. U.S. intelligence reportedly shared information regarding the ongoing threat of "potential pandemic from Wuhan outbreak" in November 2019. The U.S. Department of Defense Rumor Control Website dispels what is deemed conspiracy theories, stating that _"senior U.S. Administration officials have repeatedly denounced the Chinese government's efforts to deflect responsibility for downplaying the threat early on"_ as well as _"its lack of transparency during the early stages"_ and _"being irresponsible and unhelpful with combating the pandemic the world is facing today"_.

Italy sent 139 soldiers, Canada 104, US 172
Further data (ref 0 for me) LifeSite Article on Plague Origin

tl/dr: Your own military became the Trojan Horse to spreading this thing in your country.

Does anybody have more light on this thought: World Military Games being a (possibly principal) vector of global spread?


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## Vincenzo (Jan 24, 2021)

Italy report, 24th January, weekly changes
cases 2,458,857 +77,580, deaths 85,461 +3,284, recovered 1,882,074, +136,348, active cases 499,278, -54,096, tests 29,893,362, +983,053, people tested 16,443,404, +554,377, vaccines administered 1,379,124, +231,751*, people full vaccinated 100,863, new. * Delivery troubles
fatality rate 3.5% (=)
mortality rate 1,417 per million (+55)
test rate 495.6 per thousand (+16.3)
positive rate 15% (=)
vaccines on population 22,865 per million (+3,843)
people full vaccinated 1,672 per million (new)
test rate this week 16,298 per million (-595)
positive rate this week 14% (-8.4)
new case rate this week 1,286 per million (-451)
new vaccines this week 3,842 per million (-4,516) 
people full vaccinated this week 1,672 per million (new)


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## nuuumannn (Jan 24, 2021)

There is a suggestion from a study carried out in Italy that coronavirus antibodies were detected in people there well before the first case noted in China.

"A study published earlier this month in the scientific magazine Tumori Journal found coronavirus antibodies in 11.6 per cent of 959 asymptomatic people enrolled in a prospective lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020. Italy’s first official COVID-19 case was detected in Lombardy on Feb. 21 this year [2020]."

“Our results indicate that SARS-CoV-2 circulated in Italy earlier than the first official COVID-19 cases were diagnosed in Lombardy, even long before the first official reports from the Chinese authorities, casting new light on the onset and spread of the COVID-19 pandemic,” the Italian researchers said in their Nov.11 [2020] report, which is yet to be peer reviewed. The World Health Organization (WHO) told Global News it has reviewed the paper and would reach out to the authors to discuss and arrange for further analyses."

From here: Mystery of the coronavirus origin: Experts still seeking answers - National | Globalnews.ca


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## TheMadPenguin (Jan 24, 2021)

nuuumannn said:


> There is a suggestion from a study carried out in Italy that coronavirus antibodies were detected in people there well before the first case noted in China.


 Not at all surprising. Coronavirus is not new. We talk about "flu season", but the "flu" is not always influenza virus; some "flu" are coronavirus, and have been since we could tell between the two.



nuuumannn said:


> "A study published earlier this month in the scientific magazine Tumori Journal found coronavirus antibodies in 11.6 per cent of 959 asymptomatic people enrolled in a prospective lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020. Italy’s first official COVID-19 case was detected in Lombardy on Feb. 21 this year [2020]."


 Needed: antibodies against which coronavirus were found?



nuuumannn said:


> “Our results indicate that SARS-CoV-2 circulated in Italy earlier than the first official COVID-19 cases were diagnosed in Lombardy, even long before the first official reports from the Chinese authorities, casting new light on the onset and spread of the COVID-19 pandemic,” the Italian researchers said in their Nov.11 [2020] report, which is yet to be peer reviewed. The World Health Organization (WHO) told Global News it has reviewed the paper and would reach out to the authors to discuss and arrange for further analyses."


 Ref my post above about the World Military Games in October 2019 and multiple WuHan Flu symptoms manifesting in returning soldiers.



nuuumannn said:


> From here: Mystery of the coronavirus origin: Experts still seeking answers - National | Globalnews.ca


Good read ... but not specific enough in not stating which coronavirus when, or that the information isn't known.[/QUOTE]


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## nuuumannn (Jan 24, 2021)

TheMadPenguin said:


> Good read ... but not specific enough in not stating which coronavirus when, or that the information isn't known.



That's pretty evident in the article. It makes no bones about the fact the study is unverified, but that's not the point. The point is to not just accept everything we are told about it yet.

“What I do think is there’s going to be years of back and forth before we really have a smoking gun as to exactly what caused it and what the chain of events was.”

Just don't get suckered in to the conspiracy theory BS that "they started it". It's up to those who who are dealing with it to "end" it.

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## Vincenzo (Jan 31, 2021)

Italy report, 31st January, weekly changes
cases 2,553,032 +94,175, deaths 88,516 +3,055, recovered 2,010,548, +128,474, active cases 453,968, -45,310, tests 30,840,359, +946,997, people tested 17,005,122, +561,718, vaccines administered 1,934,633, +555,509, people full vaccinated 594,826, +493,963. 
fatality rate 3.5% (=)
mortality rate 1,468 per million (+51)
test rate 511.3 per thousand (+15.7)
positive rate 15% (=)
vaccines on population 32,074 per million (+9,209)
people full vaccinated 9,862 per million (+8,190)
test rate this week 15,700 per million (-598)
positive rate this week 16.8% (+2.8)
new case rate this week 1,561 per million (+275)
new vaccines this week 9,210 per million (+5,368) 
people full vaccinated this week 9,862 per million (+8,190)


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## at6 (Feb 1, 2021)

I've stopped keeping track of the virus. As long as there are no names from my household, all is well.

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## Greg Boeser (Feb 1, 2021)

Same here. I will mask in public per state edict, but other than that, life goes on. My life is pretty isolated anyway. Work, home, eat, sleep.
My kids have been back in the classroom since September, other than a two week "pause" around Thanksgiving, when several families were either positive or waiting test results. My sister's family were infected last fall, but all made swift, uncomplicated recoveries. One person at my work got it, but only was out the required quarantine period. Then again, just about everybody was sick in Feb - March last year, but it couldn't have been Covid, because nobody was tested.

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## TheMadPenguin (Feb 1, 2021)

I am grateful to have been so thoroughly ignored by this plague.

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## Vincenzo (Feb 7, 2021)

Italy report, 7th February, weekly changes
cases 2,636,738 +83,706, deaths 91,273 +2,757, recovered 2,118,441, +107,893, active cases 427,024, -26,944, tests 31,771,821, +931,462, people tested 17,702,105, +696,983, vaccines administered 2,546,913, +612,280, people full vaccinated 1,123,835, +529,009. 
fatality rate 3.5% (=)
mortality rate 1,513 per million (+45)
test rate 526.7 per thousand (+15.4)
positive rate 14.9% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 42,225 per million (+10,151)
people full vaccinated 18,632 per million (+8,770)
test rate this week 15,443 per million (-257)
positive rate this week 12% (-4.8)
new case rate this week 1,388 per million -173)
new vaccines this week 10,151 per million (+941) 
people full vaccinated this week 8,770 per million -1,092)


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## Zipper730 (Feb 13, 2021)

I just find the amazing lack of willingness to wear masks to be such a surprise: I can understand the hesitancy over the RNA vaccine since it's new and all it's quirks are not known, but honestly -- a mask is not a complicated thing to do.

Nobody criticizes fire-fighters for wearing protective gear.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 13, 2021)

Zipper730 said:


> *I just find the amazing lack of willingness to wear masks to be such a surprise:[/bI can understand the hesitancy over the RNA vaccine since it's new and all it's quirks are not known, but honestly -- a mask is not a complicated thing to do.
> 
> Nobody criticizes fire-fighters for wearing protective gear.*


*

“BECUZ MA FREEDUMZ!!!”*

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## Marcel (Feb 14, 2021)

I’ve explained many times why wearing masks could be considered harmful while there is no proven positive effect. But people don’t read and don’t want to know. Everybody have their own opinion and that’s mine, which I believe to be well founded. Explaining it only causes frustration for me, so I leave it at that.

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## Zipper730 (Feb 14, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> *“BECUZ MA FREEDUMZ!!!”*


I think some people have no ability to tolerate inconvenience: Look at how many people walk around with their iPhone in front of them. I own one, but usually use an old flip-phone because I actually use my phone mostly to simply make/receive calls.

That said, I think there's a lot of it's disinformation, particularly about claims that it'll cause hypoxia: It sounded like nonsense because doctors would be dropping dead left and right. I also remember a video on YouTube where a guy put a CO2 detector under his face-mask and the numbers were improbably high (given that he did not even wrap the detector around the mask but had a loose seal, it's likely he mis-calibrated the device).

I actually decided to do a little experiment on masks on blood oxygen levels (getting informed consent is very easy when you're doing the experiment on yourself): I put on a pulse oximeter, checked the number, put on a face-mask (I've worn them before, so no harm, no foul), checked the number, and walked outside for about an hour doing periodic checks. Of course, there was no dangerous drop in SpO2.

It did illustrate another problem: Our education system really sucks (When I posted the results to a person I knew, they said "that still doesn't explain the carbon", which required me to explain how the respiratory and circulatory systems work).

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 14, 2021)

Marcel said:


> I’ve explained many times why wearing masks could be considered harmful while there is no proven positive effect. But people don’t read and don’t want to know. Everybody have their own opinion and that’s mine, which I believe to be well founded. Explaining it only causes frustration for me, so I leave it at that.



Except there is plenty of evidence that they do help...

Explaining it only causes more denial.

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## Marcel (Feb 14, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Except there is plenty of evidence that they do help...
> 
> Explaining it only causes more denial.


Ah show me where they significantly slowed the infection rate. 

edit: Or maybe better not. I’m not going to be drawn in again.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 14, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Ah show me where they significantly slowed the infection rate.
> 
> edit: Or maybe better not. I’m not going to be drawn in again.



Show me where it has not.

Yeah, you’re right though. Not worth my time. Peace out...


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## buffnut453 (Feb 14, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Ah show me where they significantly slowed the infection rate.



Please explain how such proof could be obtained? Mask mandates are typically imposed at the national level so it's impossible to "prove" what might have happened within a country without a mask mandate. It's also clear that the different strains of the virus have different impacts so, again, rather hard to provide objective analysis by comparing different countries given differing infection rates and lethalities of different strains. 




Marcel said:


> edit: Or maybe better not. I’m not going to be drawn in again.



I tend to agree. No minds are going to be changed.


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## Marcel (Feb 14, 2021)

buffnut453 said:


> Please explain how such proof could be obtained?


There are quite a number of publications from Danish and German groups that don’t show any significant effect and when it does show effect, it’s always after other measurements are taken. Here in the Netherlands, we have to wear masks since September, when numbers were growing again. The weeks after that, the infections skyrocketed. Not saying that this was caused by wearing masks, but they didn’t slow it down by any means. Only got manageable again after starting a full lockdown in December.

but not I’m discussing again which I promised myself I wouldn’t do. As you say, everybody has their mind set, so I’m not bothered to look up the publications as it serves no purpose than to start fights like it did last year.


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## Vincenzo (Feb 14, 2021)

Italy report, 14th February, weekly changes
cases 2,721,879 +85,141, deaths 93,577 +2,304, recovered 2,225,519, +107,078, active cases 402,783, -24,241, tests 32,739,071, +967,250, people tested 18,309,474, +607,369, vaccines administered 2,986,864, +439,951, people full vaccinated 1,281,768, +157,933. 
fatality rate 3.4% (-0.1)
mortality rate 1,551 per million (+38)
test rate 542.8 per thousand (+16.1)
positive rate 14.9% (=)
vaccines on population 49,519 per million (+7,294)
people full vaccinated 21,251 per million (+2,619)
test rate this week 16,036 per million (+593)
positive rate this week 14% (+2)
new case rate this week 1,412 per million (+24)
new vaccines this week 7,294 per million (-2,857) 
people full vaccinated this week 2,618 per million (-6,152)

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 14, 2021)

Marcel said:


> There are quite a number of publications from Danish and German groups that don’t show any significant effect and when it does show effect, it’s always after other measurements are taken. Here in the Netherlands, we have to wear masks since September, when numbers were growing again. The weeks after that, the infections skyrocketed. Not saying that this was caused by wearing masks, but they didn’t slow it down by any means. Only got manageable again after starting a full lockdown in December.
> 
> but not I’m discussing again which I promised myself I wouldn’t do. As you say, everybody has their mind set, so I’m not bothered to look up the publications as it serves no purpose than to start fights like it did last year.



And there are plenty of publications that say the opposite of your view. But no point in bothering with that either. Everyone has already picked and chosen whats worth believing and what isn’t.

The worst part of this pandemic? It has shown how far removed we are as a society of carrying out adult conversations and debate. That’s the real reason there is no point to this.

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## Vincenzo (Feb 21, 2021)

Italy report, 21st February, weekly changes
cases 2,809,246 +87,367, deaths 95,718 +2,141, recovered 2,324,633, +99,114, active cases 388,895, -13,888, tests 33,746,297, +1,007,226, people tested 18,939,451, +629,977, vaccines administered 3,497,825, +510,961, people full vaccinated 1,330,054, +48,286.
fatality rate 3.4% (=)
mortality rate 1,587 per million (+36)
test rate 559.5 per thousand (+16.7)
positive rate 14.8% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 57,991 per million (+8,472)
people full vaccinated 22,051 per million (+800)
test rate this week 16,699 per million (+663)
positive rate this week 13.9% (-0.1)
new case rate this week 1,448 per million (+36)
new vaccines this week 8,471 per million (+1,177)
people full vaccinated this week 801 per million (-1,817)

my town total cases at 14th February: 104

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## Vincenzo (Feb 28, 2021)

Italy report, 28th February, weekly changes
cases 2,925,265 +116,019, deaths 97,699 +1,981, recovered 2,405,199, +80,566, active cases 422,367, +33,472, tests 34,833,703, +1,087,406, people tested 19,618,332, +678,881, vaccines administered 4,283,925, +786,100, people full vaccinated 1,398,786, +68,732.
fatality rate 3.3% (-0.1)
mortality rate 1,620 per million (+33)
test rate 577.5 per thousand (+18)
positive rate 14.9% (+0.1)
vaccines on population 71,024 per million (+13,033)
people full vaccinated 23,191 per million (+1,140)
test rate this week 18,028 per million (+1,329)
positive rate this week 17.1% (+3.2)
new case rate this week 1,923 per million (+475)
new vaccines this week 13,033 per million (+4,562)
people full vaccinated this week 1,140 per million (+339)

my town active cases at 28th February: 8

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## Marcel (Mar 4, 2021)

Just learned that one of my friends is in hospital in ICU on oxygen with Covid and already has been for over a week. He's a healthy, young guy, just over 40. It's a wakeup call. I realisethat we were lucky with my son having covid last week and us not getting it.
I hope we didn't loose any forum members from this horrible virus. Stay save guys!

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 4, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Just learned that one of my friends is in hospital in ICU on oxygen with Covid and already has been for over a week. He's a healthy, young guy, just over 40. It's a wakeup call. I realisethat we were lucky with my son having covid last week and us not getting it.
> I hope we didn't loose any memberes from this horrible virus. Stay save guys!



I’m sorry about your friend. More young healthy people are affected by this than many of us want to admit.

I hope he pulls through.

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## The Basket (Mar 5, 2021)

Covid injection yesterday. 

Oxford Astra Zeneca.

Woke up with high temperature and headache and mild flu symptoms.

Bar steward.

Paracetamol time and hope to feel better tomorrow.

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## The Basket (Mar 6, 2021)

Vaccine update.

Had vaccine on Thursday with no ill effects.

2am Friday morning woke up hot like the heating was on with a headache.

8am minor flu symptoms. Had temperature and headache. Took 2 Paracetamol but felt feverish all morning.

1230pm 2 more paracetamol as still had headache and fever.

1900 felt fine. No need for more paracetamol.

Saturday morning sound as a pound. No ill effects but my left arm still feels a bit sore so not badly so. So seem to be over it. Was able to perform my exercise regime without issue.

My recommendation is anyone who has the vaccine is to clear his schedule next day. Take day off work coz it may getcha.

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## special ed (Mar 6, 2021)

Had the Pfizer first shot Jan 13 in left arm. No effect till third day when the arm at shot site began to be sore. Felt like in school when a kid punched your arm. Soreness gone by fifth day, no other noticeable symptoms. Second shot Feb 3 in right arm and nothing to notice at all. When I was contacted about getting vaccinated, asked what type and if MRNA base because of this thread and Marcel's input. When they said Pfizer was MRNA based, i said OK. I am 80 and still no effects from the shots.

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## Marcel (Mar 6, 2021)

Thanks for sharing your experiences guys! Glad that the side effects disappeared quickly.


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## The Basket (Mar 6, 2021)

Yeah but I'm 47 and in good health.

Horse of a man.

I can genuinely see a poor health older guy having issues here. An old guy bud says his older guy buds have taken a few knocks with it.

My issue is that I didn't turn into a mutant or super hero.

Damn comics lied to me!

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## Vincenzo (Mar 7, 2021)

Italy report, 7th March, weekly changes
cases 3,067,486 +142,221, deaths 99,785 +2,086, recovered 2,494,839, +89,640, active cases 472,862, +50,495, tests 36,013,136, +1,179,433, people tested 20,375,964, +757,632, vaccines administered 5,403,468, +1,119,543, people full vaccinated 1,649,883, +251,097.
fatality rate 3.3% (=)
mortality rate 1,654 per million (+34)
test rate 597.1 per thousand (+19.6)
positive rate 15.1% (+0.2)
vaccines on population 89,584 per million (+18,560)
people full vaccinated 27,354 per million (+4,163)
test rate this week 19,554 per million (+1,526)
positive rate this week 18.8% (+1.7)
new case rate this week 2,358 per million (+435)
new vaccines this week 18,561 per million (+5,528)
people full vaccinated this week 4,163 per million (+3,023) 

now the B.1.1.7 is the most common variant

Total Covid deaths in my town go up to 7 (+3 today).
My County became red zone from midnight

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## 33k in the air (Mar 13, 2021)

Age breakdown of COVID deaths in Italy from start of pandemic through March 10th, 2021:

0-9 years = ..............10
10-19 years = .........14
20-29 years = .........52
30-39 years = .......189
40-49 years = .......835
50-59 years = ...3,219
60-69 years = ...9,373
70-79 years = .24,121
80-89 years = .41,430
90+ years = .....20,365

1.45 times more persons aged 90+ have died (20,365) than have all those aged 0-69 combined (13.692). Those under 60 years of age comprise 70.8% of Italy's population and 71.4% of all virus cases but only 4.3% of the deaths (and three-quarters of those are in the 50-59 age bracket).

Calculated all-case survival/recovery rate by age group:

0-9 years = .....99.993%
10-19 years = 99.995%
20-29 years = 99.994%
30-39 years = 99.986%
40-49 years = 99.951%
50-59 years = 99.410%
60-69 years = 97.279%
70-79 years = 90.560%
80-89 years = 80.225%
90+ years = ....73.250%

See Table 5 on page 24 of the following PDF (in Italian):
COVID-19 epidemic 10th March 2021 national update


Percentage of virus deaths which had *no* comorbidities according to an examination of 6,707 clinical charts of deceased patients.

16-59 years = ..10.2% (49 out of 479)
60-69 years = ....6.2% (42 out of 676)
70-79 years = ....3.1% (51 out of 1,664)
80+ years = ........1.6% (64 out of 3,888)

See Table 4 on page 6 of the following PDF:
Characteristics of COVID-19 patients dying in Italy Report based on available data on 1st March, 2021

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## Glider (Mar 14, 2021)

My wife and I had the Oxford Astra Zeneca abut a week ago. I had no side effects at all, not even an ache where the jab went in. My wife was a little tired the next day but was fine afterwards, no pain at all.

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## Vincenzo (Mar 14, 2021)

Italy report, 14th March, weekly changes
cases 3,223,142 +155,656, deaths 102,145 +2,360, recovered 2,589,731, +94,892, active cases 531,266, +58,404, tests 37,275,176, +1,262,040, people tested 21,138,014, +762,050, vaccines administered 6,701,164, +1,297,696, people full vaccinated 1,999,500, +349,617.
fatality rate 3.2% (-0.1)
mortality rate 1,693 per million (+39)
test rate 618 per thousand (+20.9)
positive rate 15.2% (+0.1)
vaccines on population 111,099 per million (+21,515)
people full vaccinated 33,150 per million (+5,796)
test rate this week 20,923 per million (+1,369)
positive rate this week 20.4% (+1.6)
new case rate this week 2,581 per million (+223)
new vaccines this week 21,515 per million (+2,954)
people full vaccinated this week 5,796 per million (+1,633) 

ever we never go out from the 2nd wave we are started a 3rd wave or only the effect of the B.1.1.7

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## 33k in the air (Mar 14, 2021)

> fatality rate 3.2% (-0.1)



All-case fatality rate by age group according to the case and fatality totals presented in the March 10th extended document (Table 5 on page 24). Cases and fatalities without an age are excluded (102 cases and 3 deaths).

0-9 years: . . . . .0.007%
10-19 years: . . .0.005%
20-29 years: . . .0.014%
30-39 years: . . .0.05%
40-49 years: . . .0.17%
50-59 years: . . .0.59%
60-69 years: . . .2.72%
70-79 years: . . .9.44%
80-89 years: . .19.78%
90+ years: . . . 26.75%

Overall (all ages): 3.22%




> mortality rate 1,693 per million (+39)



All-case fatality rate from start of pandemic through March 10, 2021, on a standard per capita (per 100,000) basis using 2019 Italian population figures for each age group. Cases and fatalities without an age are excluded (102 cases and 3 deaths).

0-9 years: . . . . . . .0.20 - (10 deaths out of 5,090,482 persons in the age group)
10-19 years: . . . . .0.24 - (14 deaths out of 5,768,874 persons in the age group)
20-29 years: . . . . .0.84 - (52 deaths out of 6,201,270 persons in the age group)
30-39 years: . . . . .2.67 - (189 deaths out of 7,074,218 persons in the age group)
40-49 years: . . . . .9.03 - (835 deaths out of 9,242,654 persons in the age group)
50-59 years: . . . .34.42 - (3,219 deaths out of 9,352,231 persons in the age group)
60-69 years: . . .127.75 - (9,373 deaths out of 7,337,210 persons in the age group)
70-79 years: . . .404.54 - (24,121 deaths out of 5,962,533 persons in the age group)
80-89 years: . 1,165.22 - (41,430 deaths out of 3,555,546 persons in the age group)
90+ years: . . .2,629.34 - (20,365 deaths out of 774,528 persons in the age group)

Overall (all ages): 165.42 - (99,608 deaths out of 60,359,546 persons)

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## Vincenzo (Mar 21, 2021)

Italy report, 21st March, weekly changes
cases 3,376,376 +153,234, deaths 104,942 +2,797, recovered 2,699,762, +110,031, active cases 571,672, +40,406, tests 38,553,755, +1,278,579, people tested 21,873,168, +735,154, vaccines administered 7,808,120, +1,106,956*, people full vaccinated 2,483,191, +483,691. * AstraZeneca was stopped for 3 and half day
fatality rate 3.1% (-0.1)
mortality rate 1,740 per million (+47)
test rate 639.2 per thousand (+21.2)
positive rate 15.4% (+0.2)
vaccines on population 129,451 per million (+18,352)
people full vaccinated 41,169 per million (+8,019)
test rate this week 21,198 per million (+275)
positive rate this week 20.8% (+0.4)
new case rate this week 2,540 per million (-41)
new vaccines this week 18,352 per million (-3,163)
people full vaccinated this week 8,019 per million (+2,223)

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## 33k in the air (Mar 22, 2021)

Age breakdown of COVID deaths in Italy from start of pandemic through March 17th, 2021. Figure in parentheses is the change from last week's extended report. Cases and deaths without an attributed age are excluded (104 cases and 5 deaths).

*Source:* Table 5 on page 23 of the COVID-19 epidemic 17th March 2021 national update extended document.

0-9 years = ...............10 -- (no change)
10-19 years = ..........14 -- (no change)
20-29 years = ..........51 -- (-1)*
30-39 years = ........191 -- (+2)
40-49 years = ........863 -- (+28)
50-59 years = ....3,339 -- (+120)
60-69 years = ....9,636 -- (+263)
70-79 years = ..24,773 -- (+652)
80-89 years = ..42,354 -- (+924)
90+ years = ......20,774 -- (+409)

_*Presumably a data error correction._

1.47 times more persons aged 90+ have died (20,774) than have all those aged 0-69 combined (14,104). Those under 60 years of age comprise 70.79% of Italy's population and 71.62% of all virus cases but only 4.38% of the deaths (with 74.7% of the under-60 deaths occurring in the 50-59 age bracket).

Calculated all-case survival/recovery rate by age group:

0-9 years = .....99.994%
10-19 years = 99.995%
20-29 years = 99.987%
30-39 years = 99.953%
40-49 years = 99.834%
50-59 years = 99.417%
60-69 years = 97.336%
70-79 years = 90.748%
80-89 years = 80.441%
90+ years = ....73.273%

Calculated all-case survival/recovery rate by age group for Canada as of March 19th for comparison. Note that Canada does not break out the data for the under-20 and 80+ age brackets into smaller age groupings. (Case and fatality figures source: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19): Epidemiology update - Demographics)

0-19 years = . 99.997% -- (Italy, 99.995% for this age grouping)
20-29 years = 99.978%
30-39 years = 99.946%
40-49 years = 99.864%
50-59 years = 99.501%
60-69 years = 97.746%
70-79 years = 90.302%
80+ years = .. 75.222% -- (Italy, 78.548% for this age grouping)

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## Vincenzo (Mar 27, 2021)

This morning in my town open the only saturday morning vaccination center, they did 36 vaccines, 
they vaccinated only people with pathologies, at choice of the "family doctors"*
* this are of regional health system

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## 33k in the air (Mar 27, 2021)

COVID outbreaks and the resulting number of cases and deaths by outbreak location type, as reported in the Public Health Agency of Canada's weekly COVID epidemiological report published March 26, which covers up through March 20th.

Figures in order are number of outbreaks, number of cases, and number of deaths. The percentage of the applicable total is in parentheses. A total of 9,049 outbreaks are covered which resulted in 126,870 virus cases and 13,518 deaths.

Community: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .201 (2.2%) . . . 11,355 (9.0%) . . . . . . 88 (0.65%) . . .56.49 cases per outbreak; 0.438 deaths per outbreak
Corrections/shelter/congregate living: . . . . . . .693 (7.7%) . . . 11,732 (9.2%) . . . . .226 (1.67%) . . . 16.93 cases per outbreak; 0.326 deaths per outbreak
Food/drink/retail: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .647 (7.2%) . . . ..2,257 (1.8%) . . . . . . . 3 (0.02%) . . . . .3.49 cases per outbreak; 0.005 deaths per outbreak
Health care: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .723 (8.0%) . . . 10,516 (8.3%) . . . . . 798 (5.90%) . . . 14.54 cases per outbreak; 1.104 deaths per outbreak
Industrial (including agriculture): . . . . . . . . . . . 484 (5.4%) . . . 11,505 (9.1%) . . . . . . 24 (0.18%) . . . 23.77 cases per outbreak; 0.050 deaths per outbreak)
Long-term care and retirement residences: .4,319 (47.8%) . . 66,287 (52.2%) . 12,372 (91.52%) . . 15.35 cases per outbreak; 2.865 deaths per outbreak
Personal care: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 (0.6%) . . . . . .415 (0.3%) . . . . . . . .0 (0.00%) . . . . 8.14 cases per outbreak; 0.000 deaths per outbreak
School & childcare centre: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,383 (15.3%) . . . 7,627 (6.0%) . . . . . . . .1 (0.01%) . . . . 5.51 cases per outbreak; 0.001 deaths per outbreak
Other: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .544 (6.0%) . . . . 5,176 (4.1%) . . . . . . . .6 (0.04%) . . . . 9.51 cases per outbreak; 0.011 deaths per outbreak

Imputed case fatality rate by location type:

. 0.77% = Community
. 1.93% = Corrections/shelter/congregate living
. 0.13% = Food/drink/retail
. 7.59% = Health care
. 0.21% = Industrial (including agriculture)
18.66% = Long-term care and retirement residences
. 0.00% = Personal care
. 0.01% = School & childcare centre
. 0.12% = Other

_Community includes population centres, Indigenous communities, Mennonite, Reserves, and small city outbreaks.
Industrial includes automotive manufacturing, distribution/processing facilities, worker camps, waste management/recycling, warehouse, etc.
Personal care refers to personal care services, such as hair salons, nail salons, etc.
School & childcare includes daycare centres and day camps, excluding facilities that report only one case.
Other groups together outbreaks in settings not listed in the categories above, e.g. social gatherings, office workplaces, recreational facilities, etc._

The 126,870 virus cases and 13,518 deaths from the reported outbreaks comprise approximately 14% of all virus cases and 60% of all deaths in the country at that time.

Outbreak data source: Table 6 on page 12 of the Canada COVID-19 Weekly Epidemiological Report (14 March to 20 March 2021)

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## stona (Mar 28, 2021)

In the UK more than 90% of all those who have died were aged 60 or over. More than half were aged 80 or over. Even in these age groups most of the dead had comorbidities, which is hardly surprising given that we all tend to develop them as we age.

Thankfully, they all now have some protection unless they declined or are unable to be vaccinated as we start to vaccinate the group of those aged 50 and above. Though at little risk of dying they may still develop a serious illness without vaccination.

My wife knew one woman in her late seventies who declined to be vaccinated in January/February (not sure when) and who has just died from Covid. You make your choices, but then you take the consequences.

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## michaelmaltby (Mar 28, 2021)

... and that's how it should always remain ... except for prisons.


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## Vincenzo (Mar 29, 2021)

Italy report, 29th March, eight day change, i missed to download the yesterday data
cases 3,544,957 +168,581, deaths 108,350 +3,408, recovered 2,870,614, +170,852, active cases 565,993, -5,679, tests 39,924,265, +1,370,510, people tested 22,773,499, +900,331, vaccines administered 9,499,293, +1,691,173, people full vaccinated 2,996,933, +483,691. 
fatality rate 3.1% (=)
mortality rate 1,796 per million (+56)
test rate 661.9 per thousand (+22.7)
positive rate 15.6% (+0.2)
vaccines on population 157,489 per million (+28,038)
people full vaccinated 49,686 per million (+8,517)

My town had to Sunday, 28th, 24 active cases, and a total of 8 (+1) deaths

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## stona (Mar 30, 2021)

The vaccination programme is having an effect here. More than 30 million have at least the first dose (30,680,948 ). Figures are for the week ending 28/3.

The estimated R number is 0.7 to 0.9 with a daily infection growth rate range of -5% to -2% as of 26 March 2021, so _overall_ infection rates are falling.. 

We have seen a rise in infection in school age children, hardly surprising since they returned to school and social distancing is not their forte. However positive tests are down 7.9%
The UK carried out 1,641,942 tests per day on average last week.

Deaths are down 35%.

Hospital admissions are down 22.1%

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## 33k in the air (Mar 31, 2021)

stona said:


> In the UK more than 90% of all those who have died were aged 60 or over. More than half were aged 80 or over.



The following data from Canada may be of interest.

*Those aged 80 or older comprise:*

51.43% of all-cause deaths in 2019
69.32% of influenza and pneumonia deaths in 2019
68.77% of all COVID deaths in 2020-21

*Those aged 70 or older comprise:*

73.25% of all-cause deaths in 2019
84.78% of influenza and pneumonia deaths in 2019
88.02% of all COVID deaths in 2020-21

*Those aged 60 or older comprise:*

87.46% of all-cause deaths in 2019
93.25% of influenza and pneumonia deaths in 2019
95.85% of all COVID deaths in 2020-21

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## Marcel (Mar 31, 2021)

Vaccine program here is a mess. It’s way too slow.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 31, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Vaccine program here is a mess. It’s way too slow.



It’s a mess here too.

I just got my vaccine appointment appointment a few minutes ago. I Have to wait until the 18th. I’m registered at every hospital and provider in my area so hopefully one will contact me with an earlier appointment and then I will just cancel the later one I have now.


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## N4521U (Mar 31, 2021)

And I just got out of the hospital, bladder bleeding again..................
But came out with a dry cough............... just had a Covid test, now the wait!
I'm 78 in 2 months.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 31, 2021)

N4521U said:


> And I just got out of the hospital, bladder bleeding again..................
> But came out with a dry cough............... just had a Covid test, now the wait!
> I'm 78 in 2 months.



My thoughts are with you my friend. Get well!


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## Marcel (Apr 1, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> It’s a mess here too.
> 
> I just got my vaccine appointment appointment a few minutes ago. I Have to wait until the 18th. I’m registered at every hospital and provider in my area so hopefully one will contact me with an earlier appointment and then I will just cancel the later one I have now.


My 77 year old mum with asthma only just got her appointment. The way it goes, I believe I’ll get mine in Augustus or so.


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## Marcel (Apr 1, 2021)

N4521U said:


> And I just got out of the hospital, bladder bleeding again..................
> But came out with a dry cough............... just had a Covid test, now the wait!
> I'm 78 in 2 months.


Hope you’ll be alright. Get well!


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## N4521U (Apr 1, 2021)

Just now, negative!

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## Vincenzo (Apr 5, 2021)

Italy report, 5th April, weekly change, monday to monday report, in Italy the after easter monday is holiday
cases 3,678,944 +133,987, deaths 111,326 +2,976, recovered 2,997,522, +126,908, active cases 570,096, +4,103, tests 41,106,214, +1,181,949, people tested 23,394,151, +620,652, vaccines administered 11,215,062, +1,715,769, people full vaccinated 3,475,919, +478,986. 
fatality rate 3.0% (-0.1)
mortality rate 1,846 per million (+50)
test rate 681.5 per thousand (+19.6)
positive rate 15.7% (+0.1)
vaccines on population 185,935 per million (+28,446)
people full vaccinated 57,628 per million (+7,942) 
test rate this week 19,596 per million (NA)
positive rate this week 21.6% (NA)
new case rate this week 2,221 per million (NA)
new vaccines this week 28,446 per million (NA)
people full vaccinated this week 7,941 per million (NA)

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## Glider (Apr 5, 2021)

I hate saying it but the UK seem to be getting on top of this at the moment. It was announced yesterday that the seven day average of deaths over the last week due to Covid, was 37 people a day.

We made some terrible decisions at the start and our total deaths as a percentage to the population is amongst the highest in the world, but we do seem to have learnt some lessons.

Maybe, just maybe, the end could be in sight.

As an aside, I use the John Hopkins website as a point of reference but its now unavailable from here. I hope they sort it out

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## Marcel (Apr 9, 2021)

Yeah, the one thing you did right was the vaccine program. And that’s a mess here, so we are still in deep sh!t.

btw, nice explanation about the efficiency of the vaccines:

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 9, 2021)

Good video. Based on of what all the people I know who have gotten a vaccine have said about the side effects they have experienced, I still hope I get the Pfizer or Moderns one on Monday.


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## michaelmaltby (Apr 9, 2021)

... got Pfizer # 1 on March 31. A little tired and stiff/


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## Marcel (Apr 9, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Good video. Based on of what all the people I know who have gotten a vaccine have said about the side effects they have experienced, I still hope I get the Pfizer or Moderns one on Monday.


Yes ideed, I still cannot understand why the world has scattered their resources on all these different vaccines and didn't focus the whole effort on these two.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 9, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Yes ideed, I still cannot understand why the world has scattered their resources on all these different vaccines and didn't focus the whole effort on these two.



Because if anything this pandemic has taught us that we have no desire to work together and help each other out. At all levels of society.

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## michaelmaltby (Apr 9, 2021)

...this pandemic has taught us ....
Remains to be seen ...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 9, 2021)

michaelmaltby said:


> ...this pandemic has taught us ....
> Remains to be seen ...



Sorry, this pandemic has taught me how pathetic people are.

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## stona (Apr 9, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Yes ideed, I still cannot understand why the world has scattered their resources on all these different vaccines and didn't focus the whole effort on these two.



Because it was not clear which vaccines would work and which would not. What if one of those in which we had concentrated resources had been the French Sanofi vaccine?

It is remarkable that there are half a dozen (and counting) vaccines already approved in various parts of the world, all of which will 100% prevent you ending up in hospital or in a morgue. That all the vaccines are effective at preventing infection and lowering that crucial R number is also remarkable. When the research began the best that was hoped for from any vaccine was 50% efficacy, and they all exceed that.

Oxford University was always going to run with what has become the AstraZeneca vaccine, because it was already a work in progress from the last epidemic caused by a coronavirus. Given that it is being produced on an 'at cost' basis why should it have been stopped? I'm sure some of the pharmaceutical companies wishing to maximise profits once we pass the pandemic phase (explicitly Pfizer) would have liked that. People in the developing world? Not so much.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 9, 2021)

Good points.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 9, 2021)

I thought my vaccine appointment was Monday. It’s Tuesday.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 9, 2021)

Scratch that. My company was able to secure 200 appointments for tomorrow, and I got one. Will cancel the other one.


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## Marcel (Apr 9, 2021)

Nice Chris, I just hope to get my vaccine before the end of the year or so.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 9, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Nice Chris, I just hope to get my vaccine before the end of the year or so.



I’m hoping the vaccine roll out improves everywhere. I want to visit my family in Germany.


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## Marcel (Apr 9, 2021)

Things got worse as they started to panic over the Astra Zeneca vaccin. All unnecessary as people don’t seem to understand the numbers at all.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 9, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Things got worse as they started to panic over the Astra Zeneca vaccin. All unnecessary as people don’t seem to understand the numbers at all.



It’s no different here really, but its getting better.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 9, 2021)

I get my 2nd Pfizer tomorrow

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## fubar57 (Apr 9, 2021)

Got my first Moderna shot on the 6th and my second will be within four months. They are doing the whole town all at once due to the small size, 4000ish. Once they run out of vaccine next week they revert back to age limit vaccinations


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 9, 2021)

fubar57 said:


> Got my first Moderna shot on the 6th and my second will be within four months. They are doing the whole town all at once due to the small size, 4000ish. Once they run out of vaccine next week they revert back to age limit vaccinations



Aren’t you supposed to get the 2nd shot after 21 days?


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## Crimea_River (Apr 9, 2021)

Not in Canada. The government thinks we're tough but in reality they can't get the vaccines fast enough. We are one of the worst in the world for vaccination rates. Only about 17% have had ONE dose.

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## stona (Apr 10, 2021)

The UK was pilloried for extending the interval between doses to 12 weeks. This was because some politicians (not qualified people) were insisting on keeping the two/three week intervals, and consequently stockpiling second doses. The UK's Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) and Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) have been much better than many others at looking at real world data in real time, reacting to it, and not slavishly sticking to intervals which were only used as a convenience to speed up the trials.
The result has been more vaccines in arms. _Those stockpiled second doses in many European countries? They should have gone into people's arms._

The UK approach has been vindicated because it was based on data indicating that a 12 week gap was actually beneficial and increased the final efficacy of both the vaccines then being used (AstraZeneca and Pfizer). Allegations promoted in some quarters that the MHRA or JCVI have somehow been gung-ho in their approach to vaccines, particularly AstraZeneca, out of some jingoistic or nationalistic motivation should be treated with the contempt they deserve.

I saw a while ago that Canada's National Advisory Committee on Immunization, which I assume to be the equivalent of our JCVI, had increased the interval between doses to 16 weeks. This may have been done as an expedient, prioritising getting the first dose into as many arms as possible as the UK has done, but I doubt that it was done without some real world data. Even if there is a reduction in protection from weeks 12-16, and I am unaware of any evidence that this is the case, it still seems sensible to get as many people protected with a first dose as possible. It's the only way to get a handle on this pandemic.


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## XBe02Drvr (Apr 10, 2021)

Got my second Pfizer yesterday. First one went real smooth; no reactions or side effects. Most of my contemporaries report feeling exhausted and jet lagged 2 - 3 days after their second. We'll see how that goes.
I'm amongst the last few in my age bracket to get vaccinated. A few hours late in scheduling an appointment can mean weeks of waiting. They fill up fast, and when each new group opens up, the barrage of appointment seekers crashes the state's antiquated computer system again. If you choose to come back later after things have settled down a bit, you wind up with an appointment sometime in the next century. Our state is opening appointments to the last group (everyone 16 and older) Monday next. Many of my acquaintances 30 and 40 years younger than me have completed their vaccinations and post-vax waiting period already. Hey, I don't have employment obligations or a family to feed, so I can afford to play the tortoise.

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## Marcel (Apr 10, 2021)

My mother finally got her first Pfizer yesterday. Being a lung patient and nearing the age of 80, I was annoyed that it took for the-powers-that-be 4 months to get her a vaccine while others, younger and more fit got them already few months back. But at least this takes a bit of weight off my chest. Will sleep even beter once she’s had her 2nd one in 6 weeks.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 10, 2021)

Just got my Pfizer shot 10 minutes ago. Second one is on May 3rd.

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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 10, 2021)

Got my 2nd almost 3 hours ago. So far, so good!

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 10, 2021)

My arm feels a lil sore, but thats it. We’ll see about tonight.

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## Marcel (Apr 10, 2021)

My mother had no side effects apart from a little sore arm. She said it felt the same as the flu vaccine she gets every year.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 10, 2021)

Marcel said:


> My mother had no side effects apart from a little sore arm. She said it felt the same as the flu vaccine she gets every year.



Thats exactly how my arm feels at the moment. Otherwise no side effects.


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## fubar57 (Apr 10, 2021)

With Moderna I had a sore arm for two days where the injection was and was a bit tired on the second day

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## Vincenzo (Apr 12, 2021)

Italy report, 12th April, weekly change, monday to monday report
cases 3,779,594 +100,650, deaths 114,612 +3,286, recovered 3,140,565, +143,043, active cases 524,417, -45,679, tests 42,200,462, +1,094,248, people tested 23,970,623, +576,472, vaccines administered 13,125,458, +1,910,396, people full vaccinated 3,952,644, +476,725.
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 1,900 per million (+54)
test rate 699.6 per thousand (+18.1)
positive rate 15.8% (+0.1)
vaccines on population 217,608 per million (+31,673)
people full vaccinated 65,531 per million (+7,903)
test rate this week 18,142 per million (+1,454)
positive rate this week 17.5% (-4.1)
new case rate this week 1,669 per million (-552)
new vaccines this week 31,673 per million (+3,227)
people full vaccinated this week 7,904 per million (-37)

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## Vincenzo (Apr 12, 2021)

Good for you all, i've not seen yours post, i not get the notify
my region start to take booking for 1960&61 classes from the 14th, probably my class need June for the booking, waiting time from booking to the vaccination is highly variable people get one day after others 2 month later

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## Vincenzo (Apr 19, 2021)

Italy report, 19th April, weekly change, monday to monday report
cases 3,878,994 +99,400, deaths 117,243 +2,631, recovered 3,268,262, +127,697, active cases 493,489, -30,928, tests 43,335,684, +1,135,222, people tested 24,596,625, +626,002, vaccines administered 15,467,656, +2,342,198, people full vaccinated 4,539,507, +586,863. 
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 1,944 per million (+44)
test rate 718.5 per thousand (+18.9)
positive rate 15.8% (=)
vaccines on population 256,439 per million (+38,831)
people full vaccinated 75,261 per million (+9,730) 
test rate this week 18,821 per million (+679)
positive rate this week 15.9% (-1.6)
new case rate this week 1,648 per million (-21)
new vaccines this week 38,831 per million (+7,158)
people full vaccinated this week 9,730 per million (+1,826)

total deaths in my town 9 (+1)

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## 33k in the air (Apr 20, 2021)

Age breakdown of COVID deaths in Italy from start of pandemic through April 14th, 2021:

0-9 years = ...............10
10-19 years = ..........12
20-29 years = ..........55
30-39 years = ........210
40-49 years = ........962
50-59 years = ....3,768
60-69 years = ..11,016
70-79 years = ..27,863
80-89 years = ..46,743
90+ years = ......22,618

1.41 times more persons aged 90+ have died (22,618) than have all those aged 0-69 combined (16,033). Those under 60 years of age comprise 70.8% of Italy's population and 72.0% of all virus cases but only 4.4% of the deaths (with three-quarters of those in the 50-59 age bracket).

Calculated all-case survival/recovery rate by age group:

0-9 years = .....99.995%
10-19 years = 99.997%
20-29 years = 99.988%
30-39 years = 99.955%
40-49 years = 99.841%
50-59 years = 99.432%
60-69 years = 97.381%
70-79 years = 91.012%
80-89 years = 80.570%
90+ years = ....73.031%

See Table 5 on page 23 of the following PDF (in Italian):
COVID-19 epidemic 14th April 2021 national update

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## Vincenzo (Apr 26, 2021)

Italy report, 26th April, weekly change, monday to monday report
cases 3,971,114 +92,120, deaths 119,539 +2,296, recovered 3,398,763, +130,501, active cases 452,812, -40,677, tests 44,452,541, +1,116,857, people tested 25,260,009, +663,384, vaccines administered 17,881,114, +2,413,458, people full vaccinated 5,256,010, +716,503. 
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 1,982 per million (+38)
test rate 737 per thousand (+18.5)
positive rate 15.7% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 296,452 per million (+40,013)
people full vaccinated 87,140 per million (+11,879) 
test rate this week 18,516 per million (-305)
positive rate this week 13.9% (-2)
new case rate this week 1,527 per million (-121)
new vaccines this week 40,013 per million (+1,182)
people full vaccinated this week 11,879 per million (+2,149)

total deaths in my town 12 (+3), one only 48 years old

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## Greg Boeser (Apr 28, 2021)

Today Minnesota recorded its third pediatric death from coronavirus since the beginning of the pandemic. That means that the case fatality rate for children under the age of 20 is now a staggering 0.0029230649310157% in Minnesota. By contrast nearly 89% of coronavirus deaths have been recorded among those 65 and older. The overall case fatality rate in MN is 1.37%
By contrast 3 people under the age of 20 died in car accidents in March of this year.

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## 33k in the air (Apr 28, 2021)

Age breakdown of COVID deaths in Italy from start of pandemic through April 21st, 2021. The figure in parentheses is the change from the prior week's report.

0-9 years = ...............10 . . .(no change)
10-19 years = ..........12 . . .(no change)
20-29 years = ..........57 . . .(+2)
30-39 years = ........211 . . .(+1)
40-49 years = ........995 . . .(+33)
50-59 years = ....3,914 . . .(+146)
60-69 years = ..11,426 . . .(+410)
70-79 years = ..28,849 . . .(+986)
80-89 years = ..47,945 . . .(+1,202)
90+ years = ......23,077 . . .(+459)

1.39 times more persons aged 90+ have died (23,077) than have all those aged 0-69 combined (16,625). Those under 60 years of age comprise 70.8% of Italy's population and 72.1% of all virus cases but only 4.5% of the deaths (with three-quarters of those in the 50-59 age bracket).

Calculated all-case survival/recovery rate by age group:

0-9 years = .....99.995%
10-19 years = 99.997%
20-29 years = 99.988%
30-39 years = 99.956%
40-49 years = 99.840%
50-59 years = 99.424%
60-69 years = 97.352%
70-79 years = 90.923%
80-89 years = 80.375%
90+ years = ....72.783%

See Table 4 on page 14 of the following PDF (in Italian):
COVID-19 epidemic 21st April 2021 national update

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## Vincenzo (May 3, 2021)

Italy report, 3rd May, weekly change, monday to monday report
cases 4,050,708 +79,594, deaths 121,433 +1,894, recovered 3,505,717, +106,954, active cases 423,558, -29,254, tests 45,538,751, +1,086,210, people tested 25,916,186, +656,177, vaccines administered 21,027,308, +3,146,194, people full vaccinated 6,348,757, +1,092,747. 
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 2,013 per million (+31)
test rate 755 per thousand (+18)
positive rate 15.6% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 348,613 per million (+52,161)
people full vaccinated 105,257 per million (+18,117) 
test rate this week 18,008 per million (-508)
positive rate this week 12.1% (-1.8)
new case rate this week 1,320 per million (-207)
new vaccines this week 52,161 per million (+12,148)
people full vaccinated this week 18,117 per million (+6,238)

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## Vincenzo (May 10, 2021)

Italy report, 10th May, weekly change, monday to monday report
cases 4,116,287 +65,579, deaths 123,031 +1,598, recovered 3,619,586, +113,869, active cases 373,670, -49,888, tests 46,631,530, +1,092,779, people tested 26,584,979, +668,793, vaccines administered 24,369,915, +3,342,607, people full vaccinated 7,521,404, +1,172,647.
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 2,040 per million (+27)
test rate 773 per thousand (+18)
positive rate 15.5% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 404,031 per million (+55,418)
people full vaccinated 124,698 per million (+19,441)
test rate this week 18,117 per million (+109)
positive rate this week 9.8% (-2.3)
new case rate this week 1,087 per million (-233)
new vaccines this week 55,417 per million (+3,256)
people full vaccinated this week 19,441 per million (+1,324)

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## Vincenzo (May 15, 2021)

From 18th May i can booking my vaccination!

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## Marcel (May 16, 2021)

Something went right and I suddenly got an invitation yesterday. I'll get my first shot next Saturday.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (May 16, 2021)

My wife got her second yesterday. We are both vaxxed up.

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## Vincenzo (May 17, 2021)

Italy report, 17th May, weekly change, monday to monday report
cases 4,162,576 +46,289, deaths 124,296 +1,265, recovered 3,715,389, +95,803, active cases 322,891, -50,779, tests 47,612,326, +980,796, people tested 27,161,204, +576,225, vaccines administered 27,765,047, +3,395,132, people full vaccinated 8,787,150, +1,265,746.
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 2,061 per million (+21)
test rate 789 per thousand (+16)
positive rate 15.3% (-0.2)
vaccines on population 460,319 per million (+56,288)
people full vaccinated 145,683 per million (+20,985)
test rate this week 16,261 per million (-1,856)
positive rate this week 8.0% (-1.8)
new case rate this week 767 per million (-320)
new vaccines this week 56,288 per million (+871)
people full vaccinated this week 20,985 per million (+1,544)

p.s. just booked my vaccination for the 5th June, pfizer, i want moderna but was not available near

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## Vincenzo (May 24, 2021)

Italy report, 24th May, weekly change, monday to monday report
cases 4,194,672 +32,096, deaths 125,335 +1,039, recovered 3,792,898, +77,509, active cases 276,439, -46,452, tests 48,484,559, +872,233, people tested 27,667,011, +505,807, vaccines administered 31,234,102, +3,469,055, people full vaccinated 10,357,791, +1,570,641.
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 2,078 per million (+17)
test rate 804 per thousand (+15)
positive rate 15.2% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 517,832 per million (+57,513)
people full vaccinated 171,723 per million (+26,040)
test rate this week 14,461 per million (-1,800)
positive rate this week 6.3% (-1.7)
new case rate this week 532 per million (-235)
new vaccines this week 57,514 per million (+1,226)
people full vaccinated this week 26,040 per million (+5,055)

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## N4521U (May 31, 2021)

INDY 500
It was a great race day. I look forward every year to watch on TV, but.....
It was announced the "largest crowd at a sporting event Post Pandemic"!?
Do the "Indianians" reallllly think the USA is Post Pandemic??????

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## Marcel (May 31, 2021)

N4521U said:


> INDY 500
> It was a great race day. I look forward every year to watch on TV, but.....
> It was announced the "largest crowd at a sporting event Post Pandemic"!?
> Do the "Indianians" reallllly think the USA is Post Pandemic??????


Watched it as well and had the same thought.

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## Vincenzo (May 31, 2021)

Italy report, 31st May, weekly change, monday to monday report
cases 4,217,821 +23,149, deaths 126,128 +793, recovered 3,858,019, +65,121, active cases 233,674, -42,765, tests 49,269,468, +784,909, people tested 28,113,732, +446,721, vaccines administered 34,798,132, +3,564,030, people full vaccinated 12,013,381, +1,655,590.
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 2,091 per million (+13)
test rate 817 per thousand (+13), this is the last week i report this data
positive rate 15% (-0.2)
vaccines on population 576,921 per million (+59,089)
people full vaccinated 199,171 per million (+27,448)
test rate this week 13,011 per million (-1,448)
positive rate this week 5.2% (-1.1)
new case rate this week 384 per million (-148)
new vaccines this week 59,088 per million (+1,574)
people full vaccinated this week 27,448 per million (+1,408)

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## Vincenzo (Jun 5, 2021)

I get my first shot of Pfizer at 9:38 am CEST, today

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## Vincenzo (Jun 7, 2021)

Italy report, 7th June, weekly change, monday to monday report
cases 4,233,698 +15,877, deaths 126,588 +460, recovered 3,918,657, +60,638, active cases 188,453, -45,221, tests 49,912,181, +642,713, people tested 28,524,595, +410,863, vaccines administered 38,582,814, +3,784,682, people full vaccinated 13,149,922, +1,136,541.
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 2,099 per million (+8)
positive rate 14.8% (-0.2)
vaccines on population 639,667 per million (+62,746)
people full vaccinated 218,054 per million (+18,883)
test rate this week 10,656 per million (-2,355)
positive rate this week 3.9% (-1.3)
new case rate this week 263 per million (-121)
new vaccines this week 62,747 per million (+3,659)
people full vaccinated this week 18,843 per million (-8,605)

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## Vincenzo (Jun 14, 2021)

Italy report, 14th June, weekly change, monday to monday report
cases 4,245,779 +12,801, deaths 127,038 +450, recovered 3,960,951, +42,294, active cases 157,790, -30,663, tests 50,555,019, +642,838, people tested 28,841,384, +316,789, vaccines administered 42,557,196, +3,974,382, people full vaccinated 14,201,115, +1,051,193.
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 2,106 per million (+7)
positive rate 14.7% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 705,559 per million (+65,892)
people full vaccinated 235,441 per million (+17,387)
test rate this week 10,658 per million (+2)
positive rate this week 4% (+0.1)
new case rate this week 212 per million (-51)
new vaccines this week 65,892 per million (+3,145)
people full vaccinated this week 17,428 per million (-1,415)

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## N4521U (Jun 15, 2021)

These statistics make my head swim.
Melbourne gets half a dozen positive and goes into overdrive tracing their movements and then into shutdown. Even with No positives in Sydney we wear masks in some offices, practice distancing and take care. For the most part! Borders close between states, all 7 of them. It's just the few who ignore the cautions who keep spreading Covid.
Take care, stay well.

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## Vincenzo (Jun 21, 2021)

Italy report, 21st June, weekly change, monday to monday report
cases 4,253,460 +7,681, deaths 127,291 +253, recovered 4,049,316, +88,365, active cases 76,853, -80,937, tests 51,149,035, +594,016, people tested 29,161,438, +320,054, vaccines administered 46,413,386, +3,856,190, people full vaccinated 15,973,867, +1,772,752.
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 2,110 per million (+4)
positive rate 14.6% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 769,491 per million (+63,932)
people full vaccinated 264,832 per million (+29,391)
test rate this week 9,848 per million (-810)
positive rate this week 2.4% (-1.6)
new case rate this week 127 per million (-85)
new vaccines this week 63,932 per million (-1,960)
people full vaccinated this week 29,391 per million (+11,963)

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## ThomasP (Jun 26, 2021)

In Minnesota (as of last week) 50% of the population was fully vaccinated - with another 6% partially vaccinated.

It would be difficult to overstate the value of the vaccination rate. Minnesota's daily positive test rate for last week averaged ~1%, as opposed to ~7.7% in the first week of December last year. This works out to about 700 new cases last week as opposed to about 35,000 new cases in the first week of December.


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## Marcel (Jun 26, 2021)

Although I’ma firm believer in vaccination, I would be careful to attribute the low numbers solely to the vaccinations. Remember, this time last year we also had dwindling numbers to a point that many thought the pandemic was over. But this was just the seasonal effect. I believe part of what we see is the same thing. Here we still count on another wave in autumn. But we’re hopeful that, with the vaccinations this will be a mere ripple instead of the tsunamis we had the passing winter.

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## Vincenzo (Jul 5, 2021)

Italy report, 5th July, 2 week change, from monday, 21st, to monday, 5th report
cases 4,263,797 +10,337, deaths 127,680 +389, recovered 4,092,586, +43,270, active cases 43,531, -33,322, tests 52,219,735, +1,070,700, people tested 29,730,813, +569,375, vaccines administered 54,064,937, +7,651,551, people full vaccinated 20,998,876, +5,025,009.
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 2,117 per million (+7)
positive rate 14.3% (-0.3)
vaccines on population 896,347 per million (+126,856)
people full vaccinated 348,142 per million (+83,310)
test rate this 2 week 17,751 per million 
positive rate this 2 week 1,8% 
new case rate this 2 week 171 per million
new vaccines this 2 week 126,856 per million 
people full vaccinated this 2 week 83,310 per million 

i'm sorry i forgot to post the report the last week, i thought i've did it; the differences are not directly comparable with the older report, this are 2 week.

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## Marcel (Jul 5, 2021)

Here everything opened up last week an now the amount of positives per day tripled after a week.


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## Vincenzo (Jul 10, 2021)

This morning at 9:39 CEST i did the 2nd Pfizer shot

i find this DEFINE_ME 
"COVID-19 vaccine efficacy and effectiveness"​

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## Marcel (Jul 10, 2021)

A week ago, we had about 500 positive cases a day. Then the government was in a hurry to remove all covid rules and today we broke the 10,000 cases per day number already. Within a week! Luckily, hospital numbers doesn't seem to rise yet.


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## N4521U (Jul 11, 2021)

Sad isn't it.
They listen to People and their whinging
instead of listening to science.
Is Trump visiting over there?????
Just askin.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 12, 2021)

I agree with your sentiments but lets keep politics out of this

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## Vincenzo (Jul 12, 2021)

Italy report, 12th July, weekly change, from monday
cases 4,272,163 +8,366*, deaths 127,788 +108, recovered 4,103,949, +11,363, active cases 40,426, -3,105, tests 52,745,243, +525,508, people tested 30,022,409, +291,596, vaccines administered 57,860,027, +3,795,090, people full vaccinated 24,015,200, +3,016,324.
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 2,119 per million (+2)
positive rate 14.2% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 959,266 per million (+62,919)
people full vaccinated 398,150 per million (+50,008)
test rate this week 8,712 per million 
positive rate this week 2,9% 
new case rate this week 139 per million
new vaccines this week 62,919 per million 
people full vaccinated this week 50,008 per million

* cases are go up faster of previous weeks, Delta variant effect, possibly next weeks we see also a Europe Cup effect

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## Vincenzo (Jul 14, 2021)

Vaccine and covid, Italy 2 weeks from 21st june to 4th july
positive per million for not vaccinated people: 336
positive per million for not fully vaccinated people: 126
positive per million for fully vaccinated people: 49
hospitalized per million for not vaccinated people: 32.2
hospitalized per million for not fully vaccinated people: 6.4
hospitalized per million for fully vaccinated people: 5
in IC per million for not vaccinated people: 3.3
in IC per million for not fully vaccinated people: 0.7
in IC per million for fully vaccinated people: 0.2
deaths per million for not vaccinated people: 7.1
deaths per million for not fully vaccinated people: 2.1
deaths per million for fully vaccinated people: 1.1


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## Glider (Jul 14, 2021)

I was just reading that in the USA 99% of the people who died over that last few days hadn't been vaccinated. Yet people are still saying that you shouldn't be vaccinated. Totally bonkers

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## fubar57 (Jul 15, 2021)

Got my second Moderna yesterday. Arm is sore and very tired but not sure if that's a symptom as I just came off nights


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## Mainly28s (Jul 16, 2021)

I've had both A/Z shots, and only had a bad reaction on the first one.


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## Vincenzo (Jul 19, 2021)

Italy report, 19th July, weekly change, from monday to monday
cases 4,289,528 +17,365*, deaths 127,874 +86, recovered 4,114,129, +10,180, active cases 47,425, +7,099, tests 53,327,382, +582,139, people tested 30,333,358, +310,949, vaccines administered 61,777,255, +3,917,228, people full vaccinated 27,311,228, +3,296,028.
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 2,120 per million (+1)
positive rate 14.1% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 1,024,210 per million (+64,944)
people full vaccinated 452,795 per million (+54,645)
test rate this week 9,651 per million (+939)
positive rate this week 5,6% (+2.7)
new case rate this week 288 per million (+149)
new vaccines this week 64,944 per million (+2,025)
people full vaccinated this week 54,645 per million (+4,637)

* over x2 on previous week

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## pops-paolo (Jul 19, 2021)

bruh im tested negative even though i have been out and about all summer as a camp counselor where no masks were worn 
but then my uncle gets on a respirator
like covid seems so inconsistent


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## Mainly28s (Jul 19, 2021)

We lost two family members last week, and at least two more are positive, and two are awaiting results.


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## pops-paolo (Jul 19, 2021)

Mainly28s said:


> We lost two family members last week, and at least two more are positive, and two are awaiting results.


my mom's friend lost her sister at 40 years old yet my dad's twin brother got it in March last year and only had a cough and they are 53
sorry for your loss though

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## Mainly28s (Jul 20, 2021)

pops-paolo said:


> my mom's friend lost her sister at 40 years old yet my dad's twin brother got it in March last year and only had a cough and they are 53
> sorry for your loss though


My condolences on your loss too.

Covid's not a nice thing!

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 22, 2021)

'It's Too Late': Doctor Says Dying COVID-19 Patients Are Begging For Vaccines


"They thought it was a hoax," said Dr. Brytney Cobia of Alabama as she implored people to get vaccinated while they can still protect themselves.




www.yahoo.com

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## Marcel (Jul 26, 2021)

Peak seems to be over, the numbers of positive test are going down as fast as they were going up last week. Probleem is how al measurements don’t seem to keep up with the changing situation. Our colour code is now dark red (at the highest peak we were still ‘yellow’) so many countries place great restrictions on us now if we want to travel. It’s a bit ironic as we are way over the high peak and numbers could be normal and low within days. But well, that’s how it goes.

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## Vincenzo (Jul 26, 2021)

Italy report, 26th July, weekly change, from monday to monday
cases 4,320,530 +31,002, deaths 127,971 +97, recovered 4,124,323, +10,194, active cases 68,236, +20,811, tests 53,963,263, +635,881, people tested 30,680,764, +347,406, vaccines administered 65,716,706, +3,939,451, people full vaccinated 30,431,025, +3,119,797.
fatality rate 3.0% (=)
mortality rate 2,122 per million (+2)
positive rate 14.1% (=)
vaccines on population 1,089,522 per million (+65,312)
people full vaccinated 504,518 per million (+51,723)
test rate this week 10,542 per million (+891)
positive rate this week 8.9% (+3.3)
new case rate this week 514 per million (+226)
new vaccines this week 65,312 per million (+368)
people full vaccinated this week 51,723 per million (-2,922)

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## Vincenzo (Aug 2, 2021)

Italy report, 2nd August, weekly change, from monday to monday
cases 4,358,533 +38,003, deaths 128,088 +117, recovered 4,137,428, +13,105, active cases 93,017, +24,781, tests 54,612,288, +649,025, people tested 31,042,444, +361,680, vaccines administered 69,084,093, +3,367,387, people full vaccinated 32,791,044, +2,360,019.
fatality rate 2.9% (-0.1)
mortality rate 2,124 per million (+2)
positive rate 14% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 1,145,350 per million (+55,828)
people full vaccinated 543,645 per million (+39,127)
test rate this week 10,760 per million (+218)
positive rate this week 10.5% (+1.6)
new case rate this week 630 per million (+116)
new vaccines this week 55,828 per million (-9,484)
people full vaccinated this week 39,127 per million (-12,596)

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## 33k in the air (Aug 8, 2021)

Public Health Agency of Canada data published August 6th. Hospitalization and fatality rates by vaccination status.

*Hospitalization Rate*
5.06% = unvaccinated (27,941 hospitalizations out of 552,668 unvaccinated cases)
7.47% = not yet protected (2,446/32,751)
8.17% = partially protected (2,327/28,484)
7.73% = fully protected (241/3,119)

*Fatality Rate*
1.07% = unvaccinated (5,896 deaths out of 552,668 unvaccinated cases)
1.94% = not yet protected (636/32,751)
1.97% = partially protected (561/28,484)
2.85% = fully protected (89/3,119)

*Definitions*
Not yet protected = <14 days after 1st dose
Partially protected = 14+ days after 1st dose through <14 days after 2nd dose
Fully protected = 14+ days after 2nd dose

See "Table 2. Characteristics and severe outcomes associated unvaccinated, partially vaccinated and fully vaccinated confirmed cases reported to PHAC, as of July 17, 2021".

PHAC -- Cases following vaccination

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## 33k in the air (Aug 8, 2021)

Official Iceland data. Over the 18 days spanning July 19th through August 5th, the country reported 1,765 new cases of COVID.

28.90% were unvaccinated individuals (510/1,765)
2.44% were partially vaccinated individuals (43/1,765)
68.67% were fully vaccinated individuals (1,212/1,765)

Note that those 1,765 new cases represent 0.51% of Iceland's population (approximately 343,000).

See "Number of vaccinated individuals among domestic infections".

COVID-19 in Iceland – Statistics

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## 33k in the air (Aug 8, 2021)

U.K. Technical Briefing 20 data, published August 6th. Out of 268,166 cases of the Delta variant:

56.33% were unvaccinated individuals (151,052/268,166)
26.14% were partially vaccinated individuals (70,106/268,166)
17.53% were fully vaccinated individuals (47,008/268,166)

Detailed fatality rate for Delta variant cases by vaccination status:

0.03% = unvaccinated, under 50 years of age (48 deaths out of 147,612 cases)
0.02% = <21 days after 1st dose, under 50 years of age (4/23,822)
0.01% = 21+ days after 1st dose, under 50 years of age (4/40,449)
0.05% = received both doses, under 50 years of age (13/23,536)

5.96% = unvaccinated, 50+ years of age (205 deaths out of 3,440 cases)
3.08% = <21 days after 1st dose, 50+ years of age (6/195)
1.15% = 21+ days after 1st dose, 50+ years of age (65/5,640)
1.81% = received both doses, 50+ years of age (389/21,472)

See Table 5 on pages 18-19 of the report PDF.

U.K. Technical Briefing 20

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## Greg Boeser (Aug 8, 2021)

My brother's family all got the 'Rona the second half of July. Everyone but my brother are back on their feet. Bro is in hospital with pneumonia and blood clot in lung, but is on the mend.

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## SaparotRob (Aug 9, 2021)

Sending best wishes to your brother and the rest of you guys as well!


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## Vincenzo (Aug 9, 2021)

Italy report, 9th August, weekly change, from monday to monday
cases 4,400,617 +42,084, deaths 128,242 +154, recovered 4,157,120, +20,092, active cases 114,855, +21,838, tests 55,225,285, +612,997, people tested 31,411,098, +368,654, vaccines administered 72,025,627, +2,941,534, people full vaccinated 34,644,639, +1,853,595.
fatality rate 2.9% (=)
mortality rate 2,126 per million (+2)
positive rate 14% (=)
vaccines on population 1,194,118 per million (+48,768)
people full vaccinated 574,376 per million (+30,731)
test rate this week 10,163 per million (-597)
positive rate this week 11.4% (+0.9)
new case rate this week 698 per million (+68)
new vaccines this week 48,768 per million (-7,060)
people full vaccinated this week 30,731 per million (-8,396)

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## ThomasP (Aug 9, 2021)

Minnesota is still doing pretty well. Our new case rate is averaging about 500/day, and our death rate is averaging about 2/day.
If my data is correct around 75% of the new cases are of the Delta variety.
We have 57% (3,0180,700 out of 5,300,000) of our population fully vaccinated, with another 4% partially.


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## Vincenzo (Aug 10, 2021)

ThomasP said:


> Minnesota is still doing pretty well. Our new case rate is averaging about 500/day, and our death rate is averaging about 2/day.
> If my data is correct around 75% of the new cases are of the Delta variety.
> We have 57% (3,0180,700 out of 5,300,000) of our population fully vaccinated, with another 4% partially.


Minnesota numbers look similar to italian, in proportion to the population

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## 33k in the air (Aug 11, 2021)

*CDC provisional COVID fatality counts by age group published August 11th*

0-17 years: . . . . .354 - (22.25% of the population | 0.06% of COVID deaths)
18-29 years: . . 2,577 - (16.37% | 0.42%)
30-39 years: . . 7,368 - (13.46% | 1.21%)
40-49 years: . 19,457 - (12.28% | 3.19%)
50-64 years: . 97,942 - (19.17% | 16.04%)
65-74 years: 136,234 - (9.59% | 22.32%)
75-84 years: 166,609 - (4.87% | 27.29%)
85+ years: . .179,994 - (2.01% | 29.46%)

Those under 50 years of age are 64.36% of the U.S. population but are only 4.87% of COVID deaths.

There were 610,425 deaths in total attributed to COVID; during that same time period there were a total of 4,639,877 deaths from other causes -- 7.6 times more.

Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)


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## 33k in the air (Aug 11, 2021)

*CDC Provisional Monthly U.S. COVID fatality counts published August 11th*


*Month**2020*​*2021*​January6​104,964​February19​47,728​March7,158​22,774​April65,476​18,432​May38,298​14,543​June18,004​7,624​July31,111​7,941​

Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 11, 2021)

And now we are trending back in the wrong direction... smh


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## Zipper730 (Aug 12, 2021)

33k in the air said:


> Those under 50 years of age are 64.36% of the U.S. population but are only 4.87% of COVID deaths.


I didn't know those over 50 were taking such high fatality rates.


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## 33k in the air (Aug 12, 2021)

Zipper730 said:


> I didn't know those over 50 were taking such high fatality rates.



COVID fatalities are highly stratified by age. The percentage of U.S. COVID deaths by age group according to the CDC provisional data published Aug. 11th. (Source)

0-17 years: . . 0.06% . . (354 / 610,425)
18-29 years: . 0.42% . . (2,577 / 610,425)
30-39 years; . 1.21% . . (7,368 / 610,425)
40-49 years: . 3.19% . . (19,457 / 610,425)
50-64 years: 16.04% . . (97,942 / 610,425)
65-74 years: 22.32% . . (136,234 / 610,425)
75-84 years: 27.29% . . (166,609 / 610,425)
85+ years: . 29.47% . . (179,884 / 610,425)

The age groups are not all directly comparable, but the trend of more fatalities in older age groups is apparent. Percentage of Canadian COVID deaths by age group as of August 6th. (Source)

0-19 years: . . 0.06% . . (15 / 26,591)
20-29 years: . 0.25% . . (66 / 26,591)
30-39 years: . 0.56% . . (148 / 26,591)
40-49 years: . 1.29% . . (344 / 26,591)
50-59 years: . 3.76% . . (1,001 / 26,591)
60-69 years: . 9.68% . . (2,573 / 26,591)
70-79 years: 20.30% . . (5,397 / 26,591)
80+ years: . .64.11% . . (17,047 / 26,591)

Percentage of Swedish COVID deaths by age group as of August 5th. (Source)

0-9 years: . . . 0.06% . . (9 / 14,657)
10-19 years: . 0.03% . . (5 / 14,657)
20-29 years: . 0.15% . . (22 / 14,657)
30-39 years: . 0.32% . . (47 / 14,657)
40-49 years: . 0.79% . . (116 / 14,657)
50-59 years: . 2.55% . . (374 / 14,657)
60-69 years: . 7.04% . . (1,032 / 14,657)
70-79 years: 22.39% . . (3,281 / 14,657)
80-89 years: 40.72% . . (5,968 / 14,657)
90+ years: . .25.95% . . (3,803 / 14,657)

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## 33k in the air (Aug 12, 2021)

Zipper730 said:


> I didn't know those over 50 were taking such high fatality rates.



The CDC provisional data doesn't show the case numbers for each age group, but other countries do. Here is the all-case survival/recovery rate by age group for Canada as of August 6th. The source is the same as given in the prior post.

0-19 years: . 99.995%
20-29 years: 99.98%
30-39 years: 99.94%
40-49 years: 99.84%
50-59 years: 99.46%
60-69 years: 97.76%
70-79 years: 91.06%
80+ years: . .76.06%

All-case survival/recovery rate by age group for Sweden as of August 5th. The source is the same as given in the prior post.

0-9 years: . . 99.97%
10-19 years: 99.997%
20-29 years: 99.99%
30-39 years: 99.98%
40-49 years: 99.94%
50-59 years: 99.79%
60-69 years: 98.83%
70-79 years: 91.84%
80-89 years: 75.64%
90+ years: . .65.35%

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## 33k in the air (Aug 13, 2021)

COVID Hospitalization and ICU admission rates by age group in British Columbia.
Data through July 31st. From the weekly provincial epidemiological report published Aug. 11th.

*Hospitalization Rate*

0-9 years: . . . 1.10% (95 hospitalizations out of 8,618 cases)
10-19 years: . 0.42% (69 / 16,274)
20-29 years: . 1.23% (424 / 34,340)
30-39 years: . 2.96% (824 / 27,825)
40-49 years: . 4.12% (909 / 22,069)
50-59 years: . 6.19% (1,264 / 18,608)
60-69 years: 12.81% (1,537 / 11,998)
70-79 years: 24.82% (1,530 / 6,165)
80-89 years: 33.28% (1,120 / 3,365)
90+ years: . .25.87% (392 / 1,515)
All ages: . . . . 5.41% (8,164 / 150,777)

*ICU Admission Rate*

0-9 years: . . 0.08% (7 ICU admissions out of 8,618 cases)
10-19 years: 0.09% (15 / 16,274)
20-29 years: 0.13% (46 / 34,340)
30-39 years: 0.56% (157 / 27,825)
40-49 years: 0.87% (193 / 22,069)
50-59 years: 1.91% (355 / 18,608)
60-69 years: 3.83% (466 / 11,998)
70-79 years: 7.14% (440 / 6,165)
80-89 years: 4.90% (165 / 3,365)
90+ years: . .1.12% (17 / 1,515)
All ages: . . . 1.23% (1,861 / 150,777)

B.C. COVID-19 Situation Report -- Week 30
See Table 4 on page 9 of the PDF

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## Greg Boeser (Aug 14, 2021)

Zipper730 said:


> I didn't know those over 50 were taking such high fatality rates.


In Minnesota the median age of a COVID fatality is 82 years old.
Less than 1% of deaths have occurred in people under the age of 40.
92.5% of all COVID deaths have been over the age of 60. 
The case fatality rate for pediatric cases (0-19y) is 1 in 13000
The case fatality rate for those 20-29y is 1 in 7700
30-39y = 1 in 1872
40-49y = 1 in 671
50-59y = 1 in 233
60-69y = 1 in 65.8
70-79y = 1 in 16.96
80-89y = 1 in 6.1
90-99y = 1 in 3.5
>99y = 1 in 2.9
Total reported cases as of 12 Aug 2021: 623,527 = 11% of population

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## Zipper730 (Aug 14, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> In Minnesota the median age of a COVID fatality is 82 years old.
> Less than 1% of deaths have occurred in people under the age of 40.
> 92.5% of all COVID deaths have been over the age of 60.


Have they prioritized vaccination for people in these age range? I'd want to cover the people who are most likely to die from the illness.


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## ARTESH (Aug 14, 2021)

Red: Critical ... Blue: Safe!







P.s. : please don't ask anything right now! I had a hard discussion with a pan-islamist about this shit and currently have no nerves!

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## 33k in the air (Aug 14, 2021)

Zipper730 said:


> Have they prioritized vaccination for people in these age range? I'd want to cover the people who are most likely to die from the illness.



Here in Canada, in every province, the focus seems to be on getting children vaccinated (12-17) more than anything else. That's despite (a) no long-term data, e.g. five years, on the health effects of the COVID vaccines on recipients that young; and (b) the demonstrably very low rate of fatalities in the under-20 age group.

Some comparative data from Statistics Canada and Health Canada:

35 = the 2015-2019 average annual number of Canadians under 20 who died from influenza & pneumonia
15 = the 2020-2021 total number of Canadians under 20 who died from COVID


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## Greg Boeser (Aug 14, 2021)

More kids have died of gunshot wounds than COVID here.

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## 33k in the air (Aug 14, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> More kids have died of gunshot wounds than COVID here.



In Canada, more people under the age of 50 died in transportation accidents in 2019 than have died from COVID during the entire pandemic (880 vs. 547).

Those under 50 are 61.8% of the population.


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## ThomasP (Aug 14, 2021)

The idea behind the push on getting the kids vaccinated is primarily the following:

1. Slow down the spread of COVID (including its new variants - Delta for example) amongst kids and anyone they associate with, and by extension anyone that associates with them then associate with, etc, etc. Widespread vaccination has been proven to slow the rate of spread of every other disease that there is a vaccine for.

2. Reduce/prevent the more serious effects in the kids that become infected (ie hospitalization, death, and long term health aftereffects). Vaccination has been proven to do accomplish this goal.

3. Reduce/prevent the spawning of new, possibly more deadly variants - by reducing the number of people that the current COVID strains infect. If this action is successful, there will fortunately be little or no evidence of success - other than the lack/reduction-in-number of new variants.

The more new strains that evolve, the more likely it is that some will be more communicable, more resistant to the vaccines, more deadly, or any combination thereof.

Worldwide, children (defined in this case as 14 yo or less) account for approximately 1/3 of the population, and only ~2%(?) have been vaccinated. That means there are currently about 2.2 billion unvaccinated incubators being carried or crawling/walking around, plus the adults that have not been vaccinated.

The reason we no longer experience recurring smallpox and polio epidemics/pandemics, and constant endemic tuberculosis (possibly the world's numerically greatest killer among communicable diseases), is due to the mass vaccination programs of the second half of the 1900s.

Although it is still not known for certain how this will all play out, a look at the past influenza timeline is considered a pretty good indicator. A good basic timeline is available here:

"Timeline of influenza - Wikipedia"


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## 33k in the air (Aug 14, 2021)

ThomasP said:


> The idea behind the push on getting the kids vaccinated is primarily the following:
> 
> 1. Slow down the spread of COVID (including its new variants - Delta for example) amongst kids and anyone they associate with, and by extension anyone that associates with them then associate with, etc, etc. Widespread vaccination has been proven to slow the rate of spread of every other disease that there is a vaccine for.



Except that, as the data unequivocally shows, children are at nearly zero risk from COVID. Plain old influenza and pneumonia poses a higher risk -- but there's no panic nor hysteria around it.

The claim that children spread COVID more than any other group is without basis in the data. If anything, a child is much more likely to contract the virus from an adult than the reverse.

The U.K. Technical Briefing 20 data unequivocally shows the Delta variant is LESS of a fatality risk than was the original strain.



ThomasP said:


> 2. Reduce/prevent the more serious effects in the kids that become infected (ie hospitalization, death, and long term health aftereffects). Vaccination has been proven to do accomplish this goal.



The claims of "long COVID" are mostly without solid basis in the data, and rely often on vague symptoms that could be attributed to anything.

If you have citations to studies which clearly show that (a) the long-term health effects from COVID occur with greater frequency than the long-term health effects from influenza; and (b) the long-term health effects from COVID occur with greater severity than the long-term health effects from influenza, then by all means present them. So far, such evidence is lacking.

Plain old influenza can cause all sorts of long-term health effects -- but there's no panic nor hysteria about that.



ThomasP said:


> 3. Reduce/prevent the spawning of new, possibly more deadly variants - by reducing the number of people that the current COVID strains infect. If this action is successful, there will fortunately be little or no evidence of success - other than the lack/reduction-in-number of new variants.



Viruses normally mutate into more contagious but LESS virulent forms. There are some experts sounding the warning that the COVID vaccines are messing with that because their efficacy is not very good (and is much less that their manufacturers were originally trumpeting).



ThomasP said:


> Worldwide, children (defined in this case as 14 yo or less) account for approximately 1/3 of the population, and only ~2%(?) have been vaccinated. That means there are currently about 2.2 billion unvaccinated incubators being carried or crawling/walking around, plus the adults that have not been vaccinated.



See first reply. Children are at nearly zero risk from the virus, and transmit the virus to adults far less than the reverse.



ThomasP said:


> The reason we no longer experience recurring smallpox and polio epidemics/pandemics, and constant endemic tuberculosis (possibly the world's numerically greatest killer among communicable diseases), is due to the mass vaccination programs of the second half of the 1900s.



Any comparison of COVID to smallpox is ridiculous. They are not even in the same ballpark in terms of fatality rates. Note also the campaign to eradicate smallpox took decades of concerted international effort.



ThomasP said:


> Although it is still not know for certain how this will all play out, a look at the past influenza timeline is considered a pretty good indicator. A good basic timeline is available here:
> 
> "Timeline of influenza - Wikipedia"



Let us remember a vaccine normally takes about 12 years to be fully approved. The COVID vaccines are barely a year into their development.

There is NO long-term data on the health effects and efficacy. No one can point to five-year data on the effects the COVID vaccines had on kids because that data doesn't exist. It CANNOT exist since the COVID vaccines have been in widespread use for less than a year.

There are plenty of examples of medications producing poor results once the longer-term data comes in The more well-known of these would be Thalidomide, Vioxx, and the 1976 Swine Flu vaccine, but these are hardly the only examples.

This history speaks to caution being highly advisable. Especially considering those at risk from COVID is well-established, and has been well-established since April of 2020. If one is under 50 to 60, depending on the overall health of the jurisdiction, the risk is minimal, and less than from other mundane causes that no one gives a second thought to.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 14, 2021)

Sigh...

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## at6 (Aug 15, 2021)

My niece has contracted covid. More people dying from gunshots and accidents than Covid this month.

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## ThomasP (Aug 15, 2021)

Hey 33k in the air,

Did you even read my post? It sounds like you are trying to rebut what I posted, but if so none of your comments apply to what I posted.


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## 33k in the air (Aug 15, 2021)

All-case recovery/survival rate by age group, Italy and Canada. (Italian data as of August 4th; Canadian data as of August 13th)

*Age Group* . *Italy* . . . | *Canada* 
0-19 years: . 99.996% | 99.995%
20-29 years: 99.99% . | 99.98%
30-39 years: 99.95% . | 99.94%
40-49 years: 99.84% . | 99.84%
50-59 years: 99.39% . | 99.46%
60-69 years: 97.23% . | 97.76%
70-79 years: 90.65% . | 91.07%
80+ years: . .77.93% . | 76.08%

Two different countries, different population sizes, different case and fatality totals, yet almost identical recovery/survival percentages for each age group.

The exact fatality and case counts:

*Age Group* . . . . . . *Italy* . . . . . .| . . . . *Canada* 
0-19 years: . . . . .30 / 677,403 . | . . . .15 / 279,645
20-29 years: . . . .67 / 532,856 . | . . . .66 / 278,959
30-39 years: . . .262 / 546,505 . | . . .149 / 237,774
40-49 years: . 1,129 / 696,740 . | . . .344 / 210,833
50-59 years: . 4,544 / 750,103 . | . 1,007 / 186,994
60-69 years: 13,138 / 474,563 . | . 2,583 / 115,442
70-79 years: 32,147 / 343,907 . | . 5,407 / 60,518
80+ years: . .76,030 / 344,437 . | 17,061 / 71,332

Italian data source (see Table 1 on page 12 of the PDF)
Canadian data source (see Figure 4 and Figure 7; use the drop-down menu on the latter to select fatality data)

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## ThomasP (Aug 15, 2021)

Hey 33k in the air,

Is your post#278 meant to address something I said in my post#273 ?


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## Vincenzo (Aug 15, 2021)

Vaccine and covid, Italy 
9th july to 8th august, positive per million for not vaccinated people: 3965
9th july to 8th august, positive per million for not fully vaccinated people: 1902
9th july to 8th august, positive per million for fully vaccinated people: 845
2nd july to 1st august. hospitalized per million for not vaccinated people: 151
As Above, hospitalized per million for not fully vaccinated people: 33.5
As Above, hospitalized per million for fully vaccinated people: 28
A. A., in IC per million for not vaccinated people: 12.2
A. A., in IC per million for not fully vaccinated people: 1.9
A. A., in IC per million for fully vaccinated people: 1.5
18th june to 18th july, deaths per million for not vaccinated people: 7
As above, deaths per million for not fully vaccinated people: 1.2
As above, deaths per million for fully vaccinated people: 1.5

the number for not vaccinated, incomplete vaccinated and full vaccinated are for the 24th July
my compilation and calculation on data from https://www.epicentro.iss.it/corona...glianza-integrata-COVID-19_11-agosto-2021.pdf table 3

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## 33k in the air (Aug 15, 2021)

ThomasP said:


> Hey 33k in the air,
> 
> Is your post#278 meant to address something I said in my post#273 ?



No. Just more data for consideration.

The more source data, the better in my view (as imperfect as some of the source data might be).


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## 33k in the air (Aug 15, 2021)

Iceland data update.

Over the last 27 days (July 19 though August 14), Iceland has recorded 2,573 new cases of COVID. That represents 0.70% of its 368,792 population. The vaccination status of these cases:

31.40% were unvaccinated (808 cases) -- 25.39% of the population is unvaccinated
. 2.06% were partially vaccinated (53) -- 5.38% of the population is partially vaccinated
66.54% were fully vaccinated (1,712) -- 69.23% of the population is fully vaccinated

The percentage of new cases by vaccination status aligns closely to the vaccination status share of the population.

255,322 people are fully vaccinated. Those 1,712 cases represent 0.67% of that total.
. 19,851 people are partially vaccinated. Those 53 cases represent 0.27% of that total.
. 93,619 people are unvaccinated. Those 808 cases represent 0.86% of that total.

Case data source (see: "Number of vaccinated individuals among domestic infections")
Vaccination numbers source
Iceland total population source


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## ThomasP (Aug 15, 2021)

The following chart is from the Health Department of the state of Indiana.

Indiana has a fully vaccinated rate of 52%, with more than 75% age 65 and up fully vaccinated.

2.4% of new infection cases have occurred in vaccinated people, as compared to 97.6% in unvaccinated people. 





I was going to put up more charts, but there are so many available showing similar results, that I settled on this one due to its simplicity and clarity in showing the data.

Incidentally, my home state of Minnesota has a fully vaccinated rate of 57% (3,0180,700 out of 5,300,000), with another 4% partially vaccinated. Less than 1% of the deaths are occurring among the vaccinated - a little bit better than in Indiana - but the difference is so small that it may be statistically insignificant.


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## 33k in the air (Aug 15, 2021)

ThomasP said:


> The following chart is from the Health Department of the state of Indiana.
> 
> [edited for brevity]



The problem with that presentation is that it doesn't show *the rate within each vaccination status group*; it's just the overall numbers lumped together, and that can be misleading.

The Public Health Agency of Canada did something similar. It presented the following figures on Aug. 13th:

*Cases*
89.4% = unvaccinated (555,240 cases out of 620,737 total cases)
. 5.3% = not yet protected (32,855 cases out of 620,737 total cases)
. 4.7% = partially protected (29,225 cases out of 620,737 total cases)
. 0.6% = fully protected (3,417 cases out of 620,737 total cases)

*Hospitalizations*
84.8% = unvaccinated (28,146 hospitalizations out of 33,196 total hospitalizations)
. 7.4% = not yet protected (2,450 hospitalizations out of 33,196 total hospitalizations)
. 7.0% = partially protected (2,340 hospitalizations out of 33,196 total hospitalizations)
. 0.8% = fully protected (260 hospitalizations out of 33,196 total hospitalizations)

*Deaths*
82.1% = unvaccinated (5,936 deaths out of 7,232 total deaths)
. 8.8% = not yet protected (639 deaths out of 7,232 total deaths)
. 7.8% = partially protected (565 deaths out of 7,232 total deaths)
. 1.3% = fully protected (92 deaths out of 7,232 total deaths)

This would seem to speak highly of vaccinations, wouldn't it?

Notice what this data is not doing: it is *not* comparing rates *within* a given vaccination status group. It it *not* telling us the rate at which unvaccinated persons were hospitalized out of all unvaccinated cases. It is *not* telling us the rate at which partially protected cases died out of all partially protected cases. It is not comparing like to like.

What happens when you slice the data that way? You get the following results.

*Hospitalization Rate by Vaccination Status*
5.07% = unvaccinated (28,146 hospitalizations out of 555,240 unvaccinated cases)
7.46% = not yet protected (2,450 hospitalizations out of 32,855 not yet protected cases)
8.01% = partially protected (2,340 hospitalizations out of 29,225 partially protected cases)
7.61% = fully protected (260 hospitalizations out of 3,417 fully protected cases)

*Fatality Rate by Vaccination Status*
1.07% = unvaccinated (5,936 deaths out of 555,240 unvaccinated cases)
1.94% = not yet protected (639 hospitalizations out of 32,855 not yet protected cases)
1.93% = partially protected (565 hospitalizations out of 29,225 partially protected cases)
2.69% = fully protected (92 hospitalizations out of 3,417 fully protected cases)

Now things look different, don't they?

It turns out the unvaccinated have the lowest rate of hospitalization and death of the four vaccination status groups. A greater share of the not yet protected, partially protected, and fully protected cases are being hospitalized and dying as compared to the rate among unvaccinated cases.

When looking at the rates within each status group, the differences are not nearly as large as in the original presentation. Indeed, the differences are small, just a few percentage points at most, although the unvaccinated group did fare the best.

Does the Indiana data you mentioned show the numbers for each vaccination status group? What do the rate numbers for each status group reveal? I would argue if it does not provide the full numerical data to allow such group rate calculation then the Indiana presentation is misleading. (The PHAC data does provide the numerical values, but one does have to do the status group rate calculations oneself.)

Source: Public Health Agency of Canada (see Figure 5 for the original presentation data; see Table 2 for the full numerical data)

*Definitions*
Not yet protected = <14 days after first dose
Partially protected = 14+ days after first dose to <14 days after second dose
Fully protected = 14+ days after second dose


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## ThomasP (Aug 16, 2021)

Hey 33k in the air,

re "Now things look different, don't they?"

 No. They do not look different.

The chart I posted is quite clear and straightforward in the way it presents the data.

In the state of Indiana in the year 2021 prior to 13 August, there have been 285,248 new cases of COVID-19
Out of the 285,248 cases there have been 16,548 hospitalizations
Out of the 16,548 hospitalizations there have been 5,787 deaths

Out of the 285,248 new cases:____278,508 occurred in the unvaccinated 48%, while_6,740 occurred in the vaccinated 52%.
Out of the 16,548 hospitalizations:__16,322 occurred in the unvaccinated 48%, while__ 226 occurred in the vaccinated 52%.
Out of the 5,787 deaths:____________5,709 occurred in the unvaccinated 48%, while___ 78 occurred in the vaccinated 52%.

The data in the chart shows that:

*If you are vaccinated you are ~45x less likely to catch COVID-19*.

When you add in the fact that *If you do not catch COVID-19 you will not be hospitalized or die from COVID-19* (Duh!) you get:

*If you are vaccinated you are - at a minimum ~45x less likely be hospitalized due to COVID-19*.

*If you are vaccinated you are - at a minimum ~45x less likely to die from COVID-19*.

If you apply the values in the chart on a per capita basis, the advantage skews even higher for the vaccinated in the areas of hospitalizations and deaths.

Yes there are other factors that can be included, some of which will change the 45x factor for different groups, but the simple fact is that if you are vaccinated you are significantly less likely to catch COVID-19 and therefor significantly less likely to be hospitalized and/or die.

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## Vincenzo (Aug 16, 2021)

Italy report, 16th August, weekly change, from monday to monday
cases 4,444,338 +43,721, deaths 128,456 +214, recovered 4,187,186, +30,066, active cases 128,696, +13,841, tests 55,801,186, +575,901, people tested 31,753,974, +342,876, vaccines administered 73,956,498, +1,930,871, people full vaccinated 35,652,402, +1,007,763.
fatality rate 2.9% (=)
mortality rate 2,130 per million (+4)
positive rate 14% (=)
vaccines on population 1,226,130 per million (+32,012)
people full vaccinated 591,084 per million (+16,708)
test rate this week 9,548 per million (-615)
positive rate this week 12.8% (+1.4)
new case rate this week 725 per million (+27)
new vaccines this week 32,012 per million (-16,756)
people full vaccinated this week 16,708 per million (-14,023)

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## 33k in the air (Aug 18, 2021)

*Italy*
All-case fatality rate by age group. National data published Aug. 13th; covers up through Aug. 11th.

0-9 years: . . . 0.006% .(14 deaths out of 243,051 cases)
10-19 years: . 0.004% .(17 deaths out of 446,197 cases)
20-29 years: . 0.01% - (69 deaths out of 542,190 cases)
30-39 years: . 0.05% - (261 deaths out of 552,178 cases)
40-49 years: . 0.16% - (1,135 deaths out of 702,230 cases)
50-59 years: . 0.60% - (4,552 deaths out of 754,959 cases)
60-69 years: . 2.76% - (13,151 deaths out of 477,178 cases)
70-79 years: . 9.32% - (32,177 deaths out of 345,418 cases)
80-89 years: 20.00% - (51,417 deaths out of 257,125 cases)
90+ years: . .27.90% - (24,681 deaths out of 88,462 cases)

There is a large, noticeable difference in outcome between the under-60 and 60+ age groups.

*Data Source* (See Table 1 on page 12 of the report PDF)


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## gumbyk (Aug 18, 2021)

Well, we're back in lockdown. Three weeks out form the airshow.
One case of Delta in the country on Tuesday morning, and now up to 10 as at yesterday. One was a high school teacher, one visited a casino, one had a big night out on Friday... its not looking good.


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## 33k in the air (Aug 18, 2021)

gumbyk said:


> Well, we're back in lockdown. Three weeks out form the airshow.
> One case of Delta in the country on Tuesday morning, and now up to 10 as at yesterday. One was a high school teacher, one visited a casino, one had a big night out on Friday... its not looking good.



That reaction to one case seems insane to me. There's some 18 months of data from around the world illustrating the actual level of risk, and which groups are most at risk (e.g. see the Italian data in post #287), yet New Zealand authorities still seem to think COVID is some sort of Ebola-Black Death-Spanish Flu combination.

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## ThomasP (Aug 18, 2021)

Hey 33k in the air,

In your opinion, how many of which groups would have to be at risk of and/or suffer severe injury or death in order to make New Zealand's actions (and similar preventive actions of other countries) not insane?

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## gumbyk (Aug 18, 2021)

33k in the air said:


> That reaction to one case seems insane to me. There's some 18 months of data from around the world illustrating the actual level of risk, and which groups are most at risk (e.g. see the Italian data in post #287), yet New Zealand authorities still seem to think COVID is some sort of Ebola-Black Death-Spanish Flu combination.


Well, two days later, and we're at more than 20 cases...
Regarding those comparisons - more transmissible than Ebola, higher fatality rate than the Spanish Flu, and worse long-term effects than either. So, it kind of is.
We've had cases within managed isolation facilities of it being transmitted between rooms with doors opposite each other in the corridor open at the same time for a matter of seconds.

Looking at the Australian data, which is a hell of a lot more relevant for us than Italy's, shows that those most likely to contract Covid are in the 20-40 age bracket. But they then go and pass it on to older people.

You seem to think that it's only about fatality rate. We like to try to prevent suffering and misery if we can. I know, we're old-fashioned like that.

Oh, and our hospitals don't profit from having maximum occupancy, so we try to avoid it.

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## 33k in the air (Aug 19, 2021)

ThomasP said:


> Hey 33k in the air,
> 
> In your opinion, how many of which groups would have to be at risk of and/or suffer severe injury or death in order to make New Zealand's actions (and similar preventive actions of other countries) not insane?



Let me respond with a question of my own: do you make the same calculation in regards to any other cause of death? Do you express similar concern over, say, heart disease or cancer deaths?

If New Zealand authorities were willing to be as draconian with the public about cancer as it is COVID, it would outlaw smoking, ban all tobacco products, and prohibit the use of any chemical even remotely suspected of being carcinogenic. Such measures could prevent many of the 35,934 cases of cancer and the 10,508 cancer deaths which occurred in the country in 2020.

If you are willing to restrict the rights of 5 million New Zealand citizens in order to prevent even one death from COVID, then surely you would be willing to restrict the rights of citizens in order to prevent even one death from cancer.

Or do the lives lost to cancer not matter? Are they not deserving of strict government intervention?

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## 33k in the air (Aug 19, 2021)

gumbyk said:


> You seem to think that it's only about fatality rate. We like to try to prevent suffering and misery if we can. I know, we're old-fashioned like that.



Do you demand similar government effort to prevent the suffering from, say, cancer?

The fact that you aren't championing massive government intervention to prevent suffering from cancer, even though the government certainly could, suggests you are willing to tolerate some degree of suffering and deaths but not others. In which case, I ask: how do you draw that line?

Why are COVID deaths deserving of being prevented by the most heavy-handed government intrusions possible, yet cancer deaths or heart disease deaths or diabetes deaths or influenza deaths are not deserving of the same level of government intrusion?

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## 33k in the air (Aug 19, 2021)

gumbyk said:


> Looking at the Australian data, which is a hell of a lot more relevant for us than Italy's, shows that those most likely to contract Covid are in the 20-40 age bracket. But they then go and pass it on to older people.



Hence why you shield and protect older people, especially those in long-term care facilities. You have them restrict their interactions with others while letting the rest of the population go about its business. Focused protection, which is exactly what all the pre-2020, long-standing influenza pandemic response plans called for. Focused protection causes the least amount of disruption to the society as a whole. But, for some reason, all those pre-2020 pandemic response plans were thrown out the window in favour of restrictions on the entire population, including those at little to no risk.

In regards to vaccinations, get those aged 80+ first, then those 70-79. Doing this will remove the vast majority of those at risk. (More than five out of every six COVID deaths in Canada were aged 70 or older.) After that, one could add the 60-69 age bracket.

Below 60, and especially below 50, the risk of dying from COVID is less than that from other mundane causes no one gives a second thought to. And since no one panics over the greater number of deaths from traffic accidents for these age groups, for example, there seems no reason to panic over COVID deaths in those same age groups. It's simply another low level risk among many others that people accept every day.

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## ThomasP (Aug 19, 2021)

Hey 33k in the air,

As up-thread, you again appear to be trying to rebut my post, but your response has nothing to do with my question.

So I repeat:

In your opinion, how many of which groups would have to be at risk of and/or suffer severe injury or death in order to make New Zealand's actions (and similar preventive actions of other countries) not insane?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 19, 2021)

This conversation again…

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## 33k in the air (Aug 19, 2021)

Back to data.

*British Columbia*
Weekly epidemiological report published August 18. Covers Jan. 15, 2020, through August 7, 2021.

*Case Rate by Age Group*

0-9 years: . . 1.87% .(8,809 cases out of 470,017 people in the age group)
10-19 years: 3.14% .(16,619 / 529,387)
20-29 years: 5.03% .(35,189 / 699,476)
30-39 years: 3.78% .(28,356 / 750,054)
40-49 years: 3.44% .(22,328 / 648,377)
50-59 years: 2.64% .(18,816 / 711,930)
60-69 years: 1.76% .(12,115 / 686,889)
70-79 years: 1.36% .(6,203 / 454,855)
80-89 years: 1.75% .(3,382 / 193,351)
90+ years: . .2.89% .(1,526 / 52,885)

*Hospitalization Rate by Age Group*

0-9 years: . . . 1.10% .(97 hospitalizations out of 8,809 cases)
10-19 years: . 0.43% .(71 / 16,619)
20-29 years: . 1.23% .(432 / 35,189)
30-39 years: . 2.94% .(833 / 28,356)
40-49 years: . 4.11% .(918 / 22,328)
50-59 years: . 6.77% .(1,273 / 18,816)
60-69 years: 12.77% .(1,547 / 12,115)
70-79 years: 24.81% .(1,539 / 6,203)
80-89 years: 33.21% .(1,123 / 3,382)
90+ years: . .25.95% .(396 / 1,526)

*ICU Admission Rate by Age Group*

0-9 years: . . 0.09% .(8 ICU admissions out of 8,809 cases)
10-19 years: 0.09% .(15 / 16,619)
20-29 years: 0.13% .(47 / 35,189)
30-39 years: 0.56% .(159 / 28,356)
40-49 years: 0.89% .(198 / 22,328)
50-59 years: 1.92% .(361 / 18,816)
60-69 years: 3.87% .(469 / 12,115)
70-79 years: 7.17% .(445 / 6,203)
80-89 years: 4.88% .(165 / 3,382)
90+ years: . .1.11% .(17 / 1,526)

*Fatality Rate by Age Group*

0-9 years: . . . 0.02% .(2 deaths out of 8,809 cases)
10-19 years: . 0.00% .(0 / 16,619)
20-29 years: . 0.01% .(2 / 35,189)
30-39 years: . 0.06% .(16 / 28,356)
40-49 years: . 0.12% .(27 / 22,328)
50-59 years: . 0.39% .(73 / 18,816)
60-69 years: . 1.45% .(176 / 12,115)
70-79 years: . 6.08% .(377 / 6,203)
80-89 years: 18.48% .(625 / 3,382)
90+ years: . .31.45% .(480 / 1,526)

*Data source* (See Table 4 on page 9 of the report PDF)

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## 33k in the air (Aug 20, 2021)

*U.K. Technical Briefing 21*
Published August 20th.

*Overall Delta variant cases by vaccination status*
52.86% = unvaccinated (183,131 out of 346,459 total Delta variant cases)
25.96% = partially unvaccinated (89,956 / 346,459)
21.18% = fully vaccinated (73,372 / 346,459)

*Overall Delta variant deaths by vaccination status*
33.25% = unvaccinated (390 out of 1,173 total Delta variant deaths)
..8.87% = partially vaccinated (104 / 1,173)
57.89% = fully vaccinated (679 / 1,173)

*Overall Delta variant emergency care visit rate*
4.49% = unvaccinated (8,219 EC visits out of 183,131 unvaccinated cases)
3.18% = partially vaccinated (2,858 EC visits out of 89,956 partially vaccinated cases)
4.04% = fully vaccinated (2,964 EC visits out of 73,372 fully vaccinated cases)

*Overall Delta variant emergency care visit requiring an overnight stay rate*
1.24% = unvaccinated (2,270 EC overnight visits out of 183,131 unvaccinated cases)
0.64% = partially vaccinated (573 EC overnight visits out of 89,956 partially vaccinated cases)
1.68% = fully vaccinated (1,236 EC visits out of 73,372 fully vaccinated cases)

*Overall Delta variant fatality rate*
0.21% = unvaccinated (390 deaths out of 183,131 unvaccinated cases)
0.12% = partially vaccinated (104 deaths out of 89,956 partially vaccinated cases)
0.93% = fully vaccinated (679 deaths out of 73,372 fully vaccinated cases)

*Data source* (See Table 5 on pages 22-23 of the report PDF)

Note: As always with COVID, age makes a major difference in outcome. A subsequent post will break down the hospitalization and fatality rates into the two age groups the briefing uses (those under 50 and those 50 or older).


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## nuuumannn (Aug 21, 2021)

33k in the air said:


> If you are willing to restrict the rights of 5 million New Zealand citizens in order to prevent even one death from COVID, then surely you would be willing to restrict the rights of citizens in order to prevent even one death from cancer.



To be clear, the majority of the New Zealand public thinks this is an appropriate means of dealing with the virus.

Your views are typical of the "freedom" lobby who think that the preservation of rights and freedoms comes without consequence. There's no freedom when your population is being ravaged by a pandemic the government has done little to stem. Comparing the rates of heart disease and cancer with COVID is silly. Neither heart disease and cancer have as swift and immediate impact on the nation's health or the economy. COVID spreads like wildfire and anyone who can't make the distinction between why COVID is treated with such strict measures compared to other illnesses that rank among national health statistics is delusional or has been living on another planet for the last two years.

The reason why we in New Zealand have enjoyed a quality of life resembling pre-COVID times is simply because of the savagery the virus has on the populations of countries around the world that have _not_ enacted the same measures. In the past year we have been enjoying public events, not worrying about the impacts of COVID and thinking that it's a thing that happens overseas, but this is a stern warning that it's not over and governments that don't act will have continue to suffer high death tolls and infection rates.

Populations where these measures are put in place understand the long-term implications if they are not. Those who don't suffer needless and tragic loss for the sake of "freedom".

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## gumbyk (Aug 21, 2021)

33k in the air said:


> Hence why you shield and protect older people, especially those in long-term care facilities. You have them restrict their interactions with others while letting the rest of the population go about its business. Focused protection, which is exactly what all the pre-2020, long-standing influenza pandemic response plans called for. Focused protection causes the least amount of disruption to the society as a whole. But, for some reason, all those pre-2020 pandemic response plans were thrown out the window in favour of restrictions on the entire population, including those at little to no risk.
> 
> In regards to vaccinations, get those aged 80+ first, then those 70-79. Doing this will remove the vast majority of those at risk. (More than five out of every six COVID deaths in Canada were aged 70 or older.) After that, one could add the 60-69 age bracket.
> 
> Below 60, and especially below 50, the risk of dying from COVID is less than that from other mundane causes no one gives a second thought to. And since no one panics over the greater number of deaths from traffic accidents for these age groups, for example, there seems no reason to panic over COVID deaths in those same age groups. It's simply another low level risk among many others that people accept every day.


You missed the point - it's not only about the fatality rate. We realize that we have finite hospital facilities, and if our ICU's a full because of covid, then other people who would normally have survived something like a heart attack end up dead. 

That, and our crazy Socialist leaning population don't like to see people suffer.

For what it's worth, we've had close to 6 months now with no restrictions at all, besides the requirement to wear masks on public transport.

The problem most countries has was that they expected that their out-dated influenza pandemic responses were going to be adequate, but they weren't, despite the WHO warning ofr over a decade that one of the biggest risks the world faced was exactly what we have seen.

You don't seem to realize that Covid has made it into New Zealand twice, and both times we've eliminated it. Not just controlled it like every other country, but been able to completely stamp it out, and continue with our lives relatively normally.


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## ThomasP (Aug 21, 2021)

Hey 33k in the air,

The data you present in your post#298 above is only for cases that have been *"sequenced and genotyped*" in order to differentiate what variant is involved. From the table headings you cite in the report:

"*Table 4. Attendance to emergency care and deaths of sequenced and genotyped cases in England (1 February 2021 to 15 August 2021)*"

"*Table 5. Attendance to emergency care and deaths of sequenced and genotyped Delta cases in England by vaccination status (1 February 2021 to 15 August 2021)*"

The study which the Technical Briefing describes is intended to keep an eye on the behavior of emerging variants and compare them to previous variants.

I think you have incorrectly assumed that the total new cases of the Delta variant is 346,459 since 1 February 2021, as opposed to only the ones that have been "*sequenced and genotyped*" referenced in the report. You have done the same for the number of deaths, ie 1,173.

The actual number of new cases in the UK since 1 February 2021 is over 2,430,000. The number of deaths since 1 February 2021 is over 24,380. The 679 deaths in the fully vaccinated sample, attributed to the Delta variant, is ~23% of the total of ~3,000 deaths due to COVID-19 in the fully vaccinated. The remaining 21,300 deaths occurred in the unvaccinated/not fully vaccinated group. Since the rate of full vaccination in the UK is ~75% in the eligible population (ie ~40,000,000 age 16+) you can see that the death rate among the fully vaccinated is far below that of the unvaccinated/not fully vaccinated group (ie 13,800,000 age 16+). I would provide a ratio of likelyhood for the fully vaccinated vs the unvaccinated as I did for the state of Indiana in my post#285 up-thread, but I do not have data on how many of the new cases are among the under 16 age group in the UK vs the over 16 age group eligible for vaccination. There is, however, no reason to think it would vary greatly from:

*If you are vaccinated you are ~45x less likely to catch COVID-19*.

When you add in the fact that *If you do not catch COVID-19 you will not be hospitalized or die from COVID-19* (Duh!) you get:

*If you are vaccinated you are - at a minimum ~45x less likely be hospitalized due to COVID-19*.

*If you are vaccinated you are - at a minimum ~45x less likely to die from COVID-19*.

I assume you can see that the way you have presented the data in your post#298 is incorrect and potentially misleading.

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## 33k in the air (Aug 21, 2021)

*U.K. Technical Briefing 21*
Age bracketed, full Delta variant data


*Under 50 years of age

Distribution of Delta variant cases*
58.93% = unvaccinated (178,240 unvaccinated cases out of 302,437 total cases)
. 8.59% = <21 days after 1st dose (25,965 / 302,437)
19.07% = 21+ days after 1st dose (57,668 / 302,437)
13.41% = 14+ days after 2nd dose (40,544 / 302,437)

*Emergency care visit (exclusive) rate*
4.20% = unvaccinated (7,479 EC visits out of 178,240 unvaccinated cases)
3.41% = <21 days after 1st dose (886 / 25,965)
2.74% = 21+ days after 1st dose (1,581 / 57,688)
2.86% = 14+ days after 2nd dose (1,161 / 40,544)

*Emergency care visit requiring an overnight stay (exclusive) rate*
1.03% = unvaccinated (1,840 EC visits out of 178,240 unvaccinated cases)
0.55% = <21 days after 1st dose (144 / 25,965)
0.46% = 21+ days after 1st dose (267 / 57,688)
0.61% = 14+ days after 2nd dose (246 / 40,544)

*Fatality rate*
0.04% = unvaccinated (72 deaths out of 178,240 unvaccinated cases)
0.02% = <21 days after 1st dose (144 / 25,965)
0.01% = 21+ days after 1st dose (267 / 57,688)
0.07% = 14+ days after 2nd dose (246 / 40,544)


*50 years of age or older

Distribution of Delta variant cases*
11.11% = unvaccinated (4,891 unvaccinated cases out of 44,022 total cases)
. 0.52% = <21 days after 1st dose (228 / 44,022)
13.80% = 21+ days after 1st dose (6,075 / 44,022)
74.57% = 14+ days after 2nd dose (32,828 / 44,022)

*Emergency care visit (exclusive) rate*
15.13% = unvaccinated (740 EC visits out of 4,891 unvaccinated cases)
. 8.33% = <21 days after 1st dose (19 / 228)
. 6.12% = 21+ days after 1st dose (372 / 6,075)
. 5.49% = 14+ days after 2nd dose (1,803 / 32,828)

*Emergency care visit requiring an overnight stay (exclusive) rate*
8.79% = unvaccinated (430 EC visits out of 4,891 unvaccinated cases)
5.70% = <21 days after 1st dose (13 / 228)
2.45% = 21+ days after 1st dose (149 / 6,075)
3.02% = 14+ days after 2nd dose (990 / 32,828)

*Fatality rate*
6.50% = unvaccinated (318 EC visits out of 4,891 unvaccinated cases)
3.51% = <21 days after 1st dose (8 / 228)
1.40% = 21+ days after 1st dose (85 / 6,075)
1.99% = 14+ days after 2nd dose (652 / 32,828)


*Data source* (See Table 5 on pages 22-23 of the report PDF)


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## 33k in the air (Aug 21, 2021)

ThomasP said:


> I think you have incorrectly assumed that the total new cases of the Delta variant is 346,459 since 1 February 2021, as opposed to only the ones that have been "*sequenced and genotyped*" referenced in the report. You have done the same for the number of deaths, ie 1,173.



I am not assuming anything. I have simply posted the data as it exists in the Technical Briefing 21 report. Its data says what it says. If the Technical Briefing is limiting its data sample, ask its authors why it is doing so. The source is linked, so those interested can read it for themselves.

As I understand it, the specific type of COVID variant can only be confirmed by gene sequencing. The PCR test itself cannot determine the variant type.


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## 33k in the air (Aug 21, 2021)

*Canada*
Public Health of Agency of Canada data published August 20th; covers Dec. 14, 2020, through July 31, 2021.

*Case distribution by vaccination status*
89.26% = unvaccinated (557,831 unvaccinated cases out of 624,980 total cases)
. 5.28% = not yet protected (32,980 / 624,980)
. 4.88% = partially protected (30.197 / 624,980)
. 0.64% = fully protected (3,972 / 624,980)

*Hospitalization distribution by vaccination status*
84.73% = unvaccinated (28,265 unvaccinated hospitalizations out of 33,359 total hospitalizations)
. 7.36% = not yet protected (2,455 / 33,359)
. 7.06% = partially protected (2,365 / 33,359)
. 0.85% = fully protected (283 / 33,359)

*Fatality distribution by vaccination status*
81.99% = unvaccinated (5,944 unvaccinated deaths out of 7,250 total deaths)
. 8.81% = not yet protected (639 / 7,250)
. 7.83% = partially protected (568 / 7,250)
. 1.37% = fully protected (99 / 7,250)

Based on the above, it would appear vaccinations are doing well.

However, examining the data on a rate basis within each vaccination status group yields a different result.

*Hospitalization rate by vaccination status*
5.07% = unvaccinated (28,265 hospitalizations out of 557,831 unvaccinated cases)
7.44% = not yet protected (2,455 / 32,980)
7.80% = partially protected (2,365 / 30,197)
7.12% = fully protected (283 / 3,972)

*Fatality rate by vaccination status*
1.07% = unvaccinated (5,944 deaths out of 557,831 unvaccinated cases)
1.94% = not yet protected (639 / 32,980)
1.88% = partially protected (568 / 30,197)
2.49% = fully protected (99 / 3,972)

The unvaccinated have the lowest rate for both hospitalizations and deaths of the four vaccination status groups, although the difference is only about one to two percentage points.

*Definitions*
Not yet protected = <14 days after first dose
Partially protected = 14+ days after first dose through <14 days after second dose
Fully protected = 14+ days after second dose

*Data source* (See Figure 5 and Table 2)


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## 33k in the air (Aug 21, 2021)

*Ontario*
Data snapshot as of August 21st.

Long-term care residents: 15,421 cases and 3,975 deaths = 25.78% case fatality rate
Long-term care workers: . . 7,227 cases and . . .10 deaths = . 0.14% case fatality rate
Rest of population: . . . . 536,142 cases and 5,466 deaths = . 1.02% case fatality rate

Long-term care residents in Ontario are about 0.55% of the population, 2.76% of COVID cases, and 42.06% of COVID deaths.

The one positive development is that the daily number of reported COVID cases and deaths among LTC residents has been low since the end of February.

In the 174 days spanning Mar. 1st through Aug. 21st:
463 cases and 111 deaths -- an average of 2.66 cases and 0.64 deaths per day

In the 174 days before that, spanning Sept. 8th through Feb. 28th:
9,007 cases and 2,047 deaths -- an average of 51.76 cases and 11.76 deaths per day

Cases and fatalities are down nearly 95% over the last 174 days compared to the 174 days before that.

Source: *Status of COVID-19 cases in Ontario*


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## ThomasP (Aug 21, 2021)

Hey 33k in the air,

re your post#304

"However, examining the data on a rate basis within each vaccination status group yields a different result."

and

"The unvaccinated have the lowest rate for both hospitalizations and deaths of the four vaccination status groups, although the difference is only about one to two percentage points."

What "However" are you talking about?

Please read the rest of the report.

In the report under "Cases reported since the start of the vaccination campaign, as of July 31, 2021"

There were ~827,800 (624,980 / .755) new cases (age 12 and older) between December 14, 2020 (the start of the Canadian vaccination campaign) and July 31, 2021. Of those cases the reporting agency received the vaccine history for 75.5% (ie 624,980), out of which:

557,831 were in the unvaccinated

63,177 were in the partially protected or partially vaccinated

3,972 were in the fully vaccinated

Note the ratio of new cases in the unvaccinated vs vaccinated categories, ie 140:1

Under Table 2 just before Table 3:

"Fully vaccinated individuals diagnosed with COVID-19 were significantly protected from severe outcomes. Compared to unvaccinated cases, fully vaccinated cases were 71% less likely to be hospitalized and 48% less likely to die as a result of their illness (Table 3)."

and of course Table 3 itself.

Your analysis is incorrect.


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## at6 (Aug 22, 2021)

Don't worry about dying from Covid. This thread is boring us to death.

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## ARTESH (Aug 22, 2021)

I found this picture! It says that according to government, 13975 people are dead by COVID-19, just in past month (in Persian calender)

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## 33k in the air (Aug 22, 2021)

*Alberta*
Data through August 19th

*Case Rate by Age Group*
0-9 years: . . 4.26% (23,347 cases out of 548,572 people in the age group)
10-19 years: 6.26% (32,736 / 522,837)
20-29 years: 7.59% (45,240 / 596,059)
30-39 years: 6.58% (46,493 / 706,553)
40-49 years: 6.34% (37,771 / 595,391)
50-59 years: 5.04% (27,925 / 553,818)
60-69 years: 3.51% (16,046 / 456,607)
70-79 years: 2.78% (6,842 / 245,888)
80+ years: . .4.72% (6,421 / 135,969)

*Hospitalization Rate by Age Group*
0-9 years: . . . 0.57% (132 hospitalizations out of 23,347 cases in the age group)
10-19 years: . 0.52% (169 / 32,736)
20-29 years: . 1,21% (549 / 45,240)
30-39 years: . 2.13% (991 / 46,493)
40-49 years: . 3.24% (1,225 / 37,771)
50-59 years: . 6.25% (1,744 / 27,925)
60-69 years: 10.95% (1,757 / 16,046)
70-79 years: 23.11% (1,581 / 6,842)
80+ years: . .28.92% (1,857 / 6,421)

*ICU Admissions Rate by Age Group*
0-9 years: . . 0.15% (34 ICU admissions out of 23,347 cases in the age group)
10-19 years: 0.07% (23 / 32,736)
20-29 years: 0,15% (66 / 45,240)
30-39 years: 0.32% (147 / 46,493)
40-49 years: 0.68% (257 / 37,771)
50-59 years: 1.57% (438 / 27,925)
60-69 years: 3.17% (509 / 16,046)
70-79 years: 4.74% (324 / 6,842)
80+ years: . .1.39% (89 / 6,421)

*Fatality Rate by Age Group*
0-9 years: . . . 0.00% (0 deaths out of 23,347 cases in the age group)
10-19 years: . 0.00% (0 / 32,736)
20-29 years: . 0.02% (10 / 45,240)
30-39 years: . 0.03% (15 / 46,493)
40-49 years: . 0.12% (47 / 37,771)
50-59 years: . 0.43% (119 / 27,925)
60-69 years: . 1.78% (300 / 16,046)
70-79 years: . 7.16% (490 / 6,842)
80+ years: . .21.20% (1,361 / 6,421)

*Note:* 176 cases for which the age of the person was unknown were excluded. Case rate calculation used Statistics Canada mid-2019 population estimates.

*Data source*


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## Vincenzo (Aug 23, 2021)

Italy report, 23rd August, weekly change, from monday to monday
cases 4,488,779 +44,441, deaths 128,795 +339, recovered 4,224,429, +37,243, active cases 135,555, +6,859, tests 56,364,064, +562,878, people tested 32,098,419, +344,445, vaccines administered 75,544,280, +1,587,782, people full vaccinated 36,489,907, +837,505.
fatality rate 2.9% (=)
mortality rate 2,135 per million (+5)
positive rate 14% (=)
vaccines on population 1,252,454 per million (+26,324)
people full vaccinated 604,969 per million (+13,885)
test rate this week 9,332 per million (-216)
positive rate this week 12.9% (+0.1)
new case rate this week 737 per million (+12)
new vaccines this week 26,324 per million (-5,688)
people full vaccinated this week 13,885 per million (-2,823)

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## Greg Boeser (Aug 23, 2021)

So even with a >60% vax rate you are still seeing a 13% positivity rate?


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## ThomasP (Aug 24, 2021)

Hey Greg Boeser,

The Minnesota positivity rate is about 5%* for the last week, so almost the same as for Italy, and we have a similar vaccination rate: out of 5,300,000+ people, 57% are fully vaccinated with another 4% partially vaccinated.

But it needs to be remembered that about 90% of the new cases are in the unvaccinated group, about 9% are in the partially vaccinated/not yet fully protected group, and less than 1% are in the fully vaccinated/protected group.

*edit - had a typo, corrected 16.5% to 5%


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## 33k in the air (Aug 24, 2021)

*Canada*
National data as of August 20th

*Case Rate by Age Group*
0-19 years: . 3.48% .(282,845 cases out of 8,121,022 people in the age group)
20-29 years: 5.55% .(283,105 / 5,101,604)
30-39 years: 4.64% .(240,492 / 5,186,274)
40-49 years: 4.41% .(212,423 / 4,819,894)
50-59 years: 3.58% .(188,161 / 5,255,814)
60-69 years: 2.52% .(116,053 / 4,611,490)
70-79 years: 2.12% .(60,763 / 2,872,378)
80+ years: . .4.40% .(71,524 / 1,624,908)

*All-Case Fatality Rate by Age Group*
0-19 years: . . 0.005% (15 deaths out of 282,845 cases in the age group)
20-29 years: . 0.02% .(67 / 283,105)
30-39 years: . 0.06% .(152 / 240,492)
40-49 years: . 0.16% .(347 / 212,4234)
50-59 years: . 0.54% .(1,010 / 188,161)
60-69 years: . 2.23% .(2,589 / 116,053)
70-79 years: . 8.92% .(5,418 / 60,763)
80+ years: . .23.88% .(17,077 / 71,524)

*Per Capita Fatality Rate by Age Group*
0-19 years: . 0.00018% = 1 in 541,401 (15 deaths out of 8,121,022 people in the age group)
20-29 years: 0.0013% . = 1 in 76,143 . (67 / 5,101,604)
30-39 years: 0.0029% . = 1 in 34,120 . (152 / 5,186,274)
40-49 years: 0.0072% . = 1 in 13,890 . (347 / 4,819,894)
50-59 years: 0.0192% . = 1 in 5,204 . . (1,010 / 5,255,814)
60-69 years: 0.0561% . = 1 in 1,781 . . (2,589 / 4,611,490)
70-79 years: 0.1866% . = 1 in 530 . . . .(5,418 / 2,872,378)
80+ years: . .1.0510% . = 1 in 95 . . . . .(17,077 / 1,624,908)

*Data source* (See Figure 4 and Figure 7. Use the drop-down menu on the latter to select the category.)

Population figures are Statistics Canada's mid-2019 population estimates.


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## Greg Boeser (Aug 24, 2021)

T
 ThomasP

Where are you getting that number?
The MN Dept Health is showing about 5-6%
Unless I'm reading their graph wrong?


https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/stats/covidweekly3321.pdf


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## Vincenzo (Aug 24, 2021)

Greg Boeser my data are not for (new) positive/test but (new) positive/new people tested,


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## at6 (Aug 25, 2021)

When will this thread get Covid and die?

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## ThomasP (Aug 25, 2021)

Hey Greg Boeser,

Sorry, I made a typo. I meant to type 5%, not 16.5%. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I have corrected my post above. The reason I said that Minnesota and Italy had similar positive test rates is from the data

For 17 August thru 23 August 2021, Italy had 7.9% of tests given come back positive.
From Vincenzo's numbers upthread:
44,441 new cases / 562,878 new tests = 7.9%

For 15 August thru 21 August 2021, Minnesota had 4.9% of tests given come back positive.
From the site you posted upthread (which is the same one I use for the most part):
8,770 new cases / 178,728 new tests = 4.9%


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## Zipper730 (Aug 25, 2021)

at6 said:


> When will this thread get Covid and die?


Actually the thread is pretty young, so even if it gets Covid, it's unlikely to die...

... okay, that was lame.

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## 33k in the air (Aug 25, 2021)

Zipper730 said:


> Actually the thread is pretty young, so even if it gets Covid, it's unlikely to die...
> 
> ... okay, that was lame.



Lame, perhaps, but accurate based on the data from multiple jurisdictions.

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## 33k in the air (Aug 25, 2021)

Here in Canada, a third province has now decided to implement a COVID vaccine passport scheme: British Columbia. It joins Quebec and Manitoba.

B.C. Public Health Office announcement. Details of system.

The key points:

-----------------------------------

By order of the PHO, proof of vaccination will be required to access some events, services and businesses. Starting September 13, you must have at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. By October 24, you must be fully vaccinated.

The requirement applies to all people born in 2009 or earlier (12+) and covers:

Indoor ticketed concerts, theatre, dance, symphony and sporting events
Indoor and outdoor dining at restaurants, pubs and bars
Nightclubs and casinos 
Movie theatres 
Gyms, pools and recreation facilities 
Does not include youth recreational sport

Indoor high intensity group exercise 
Indoor organized gatherings like weddings, parties, conferences, meetings and workshops
Indoor organized group recreational classes and activities like pottery and art
Does not include K to 12 school and before and after school programs

Post-secondary on-campus student housing. *Note: Students must be partially vaccinated by September 7*
Events, businesses and services will ask to see your proof of vaccination and valid government ID.

The requirement is in place until January 31, 2022, subject to extension.

-----------------------------------

"Subject to extension." Does anyone really think they're going to repeal this scheme at the end of January? [/cynic]

Notice also what this measure does NOT include: NO provisions for (a) those who have natural immunity from already having had the virus (this is some 150,000 people, or nearly 3% of the provincial population); (b) those who have a medical condition which prevents them from being vaccinated; (c) those who have objections on religious or conscientious grounds.

Rumor has it Ontario will follow in a few weeks, despite the premier and health minister having said last month that the province would not take such a measure.


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## at6 (Aug 26, 2021)

I hope that your picture is up to date.


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## Zipper730 (Aug 27, 2021)

33k in the air said:


> "Subject to extension." Does anyone really think they're going to repeal this scheme at the end of January? [/cynic]


No, I don't.

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## 33k in the air (Aug 27, 2021)

33k in the air said:


> Rumor has it Ontario will follow in a few weeks, despite the premier and health minister having said last month that the province would not take such a measure.



Following up on this point, the "news" media has been pushing hard for a COVID passport scheme. The latest has the regional public health officers all supposedly on board with the idea, and some have publicly mused that they will implement their own localized passport system if a provincial one isn't brought in --- whether such localized schemes would even be legal and survive court challenge is an open question.


Friday will see the release of the latest national numbers for Canada, so it'll be something of a data dump day.


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## 33k in the air (Aug 27, 2021)

33k in the air said:


> Following up on this point, the "news" media has been pushing hard for a COVID passport scheme. The latest has the regional public health officers all supposedly on board with the idea, and some have publicly mused that they will implement their own localized passport system if a provincial one isn't brought in --- whether such localized schemes would even be legal and survive court challenge is an open question.



A further follow-up. It appears the Ontario government may be trying to backdoor COVID passports. The provincial government, with no announcement or legislative session, quietly changed the legislation regarding businesses having to follow the rules set out by their local public health officers. This effectively grants the power to local health officers to implement a passport scheme and businesses in that area will have to follow those rules; it no longer has to come from the province itself.

It would appear the Ford government doesn't want to take the potential public hit from directly mandating a passport scheme, and is passing the buck to local public health officers, allowing the government to say it's not its fault for such passport measures, even though it wouldn't have been possible without the change in the emergency legislation.

At least the premiers of Manitoba and Quebec stood up directly for COVID passport schemes, as much as I may think the policy wholly unacceptable. Doug Ford and the provincial Conservatives, on the other hand, are abject underhanded cowards.


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## Zipper730 (Aug 27, 2021)

33k in the air


I remember there were huge protests in the UK and France over passports like this. While this is a bit more transparent, it doesn't seem like something that's ungraspable.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 27, 2021)

And we have a no politics rule in this forum.


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## pbehn (Aug 27, 2021)

One of my earliest memories is being vaccinated for polio, a sugar cube covered in a very bitter syrup. A guy who I worked with many times was born in the next town (Middlesbrough), Luigi didnt get the vaccination because his dad was an Italian POW and he took his son back to Italy for a few years and made many other trips later. Luigi contracted polio and had a withered arm because of it. When I worked in Italy there were many people my age or older who had contracted polio at that time. Maybe the problem is that Covid doesnt leave people alive and disfigured or wipe out the young. I see elderly protesters older than me with dogs, they have certainly been vaccinated for polio and TB (which was done when I was in my teens) and their dogs have all been jabbed.

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## at6 (Aug 28, 2021)

pbehn said:


> One of my earliest memories is being vaccinated for polio, a sugar cube covered in a very bitter syrup. A guy who I worked with many times was born in the next town (Middlesbrough), Luigi didnt get the vaccination because his dad was an Italian POW and he took his son back to Italy for a few years and made many other trips later. Luigi contracted polio and had a withered arm because of it. When I worked in Italy there were many people my age or older who had contracted polio at that time. Maybe the problem is that Covid doesnt leave people alive and disfigured or wipe out the young. I see elderly protesters older than me with dogs, they have certainly been vaccinated for polio and TB (which was done when I was in my teens) and their dogs have all been jabbed.


You got a sugar cube? We had to endure needles but at least we didn't get Polio.


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## ThomasP (Aug 28, 2021)

I do not know if I should post this, but here goes. It is not intended as political in nature, but as informative of history and the law, in particular relative to the US.

For those of you not already aware of this, in the US there is not now - nor has there ever been - a constitutionally granted right to create un-necessary risk to others where communicable disease is concerned. Federal, State, and local law is quite clear on this in general concept, and has been clear since the founding of our country. In fact, today's laws concerning this matter are the least draconian and lax since such laws were first put into effect (in the US).

The laws are also quite specific (for the most part) as to what may and may not be done to the individual person in order to reduce or remove the risk to others.

Basically:

The state may impose requirements and behaviors conducive to the prevention of the spread of disease (human-to-human communicable or otherwise) commensurate with the dangers presented by the disease. 

If a person is not a child, or an adult ward of the state (ie incarcerated or of unsound mind), the person in question may not be forced to accept any medical treatment. The ability to refuse any or all medical treatment is considered a basic right of any autonomous US citizen when within the US boundary. A child may be forced to accept treatment, as can an incarcerated person or a person of unsound mind, if the stated considers it necessary for the individual's or the public's welfare. The only exception to the above is if there is a clear religious violation, or clear increased risk to health of the individual. Any person not accepting treatment, for any reason, will be considered non-compliant (voluntarily or involuntarily).

If the state deems it necessary in order to ensure the health of the public, due to the hazard presented by the non-compliant person, said non-compliant person may be detained and/or isolated (or in the case of a recent legal immigrant or an illegal immigrant - detained and/or isolated and/or deported) until the perceived health risk posed by the individual no longer exists.

All of the above is clear in laws set by the courts and communities, sometimes enacted during health emergencies, sometimes enacted after the health emergencies are over, and sometimes enacted based on medical and scientific advice.

It should also be noted that the legal precedent described above was already in practice in the 13 Colonies during the US revolutionary war period, as evidenced by the handling of the contemporary smallpox epidemic of 1775-1782. Entire towns and communities were quarantined (sometimes voluntarily and sometimes involuntarily), with individuals sometimes being beaten or killed to prevent them leaving quarantine. People were given the choice of vaccination (yes, you read it right, there was already a vaccination for Smallpox in the late-1700s) or voluntary isolation/quarantine. Individuals refusing to be vaccinated or accept voluntary isolation/quarantine, were forcibly isolated/quarantined - either by being sent of to remote communities for the duration, or quarantined in place, under the watchful eyes of the local authorities. (Note that the specific methods and laws of 1775-1796 were set by the individual States - until the Constitution was enacted in 1796, when the States voluntarily ceded authority to the Federal government.)

Similar measures occurred in most of the serious epidemics/pandemics throughout US history. The latest examples (prior to COVID) occurred during the Polio epidemics of the 1920s through the early-1950s, when entire communities/neighborhoods were forcibly quarantined, along with individuals. Earlier examples include Smallpox (first US epidemic 1775-1782), Plague (first outbreak after the Constitution was enacted 1900), Cholera (first outbreak in 1832), Influenza (1918), to name some(most?) of them. In some of the outbreaks/epidemics listed, 'passports' were required that indicated the ships or individuals did not originate from/had not recently traveled through known centers of disease - or in the case of Smallpox had been vaccinated. Imposed isolation/quarantine after arriving at the destination was common. After it was realized that the (bubonic) plague had made it to the West Coast in 1900, many states threatened to quarantine the entire state of California.

There were also sometimes other behaviors mandated, such as the shutting down of businesses, schools, churches, etc.

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## pbehn (Aug 28, 2021)

at6 said:


> You got a sugar cube? We had to endure needles but at least we didn't get Polio.


There were controversies about vaccines even then, before I was born. The polio vaccine was a version of the virus that gave immunity without the symptoms. As I read it, polio has always been with us, improvements in knowledge of disease and improvements in sanitation actually led to epidemics. Up to the mid 1800s people were surrounded by polio and if you are infected young enough it does no harm. As people got better sanitation, used more soap and didnt live surrounded by human waste more and more populations hadnt been exposed to it and so were vulnerable. I had a few injections as a child but many blood tests, needles didnt bother me at all but I can still remember the taste that vaccine fffing awful.

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## 33k in the air (Aug 28, 2021)

33k in the air said:


> A further follow-up. It appears the Ontario government may be trying to backdoor COVID passports. The provincial government, with no announcement or legislative session, quietly changed the legislation regarding businesses having to follow the rules set out by their local public health officers. This effectively grants the power to local health officers to implement a passport scheme and businesses in that area will have to follow those rules; it no longer has to come from the province itself.
> 
> It would appear the Ford government doesn't want to take the potential public hit from directly mandating a passport scheme, and is passing the buck to local public health officers, allowing the government to say it's not its fault for such passport measures, even though it wouldn't have been possible without the change in the emergency legislation.



Another follow-up.

After the Prime Minister basically offered to pay all the costs of the development of a COVID passport system for interested provinces, it appears Premier Ford in Ontario will go back on his comments of earlier this year disparaging the idea of such passport schemes, and will go ahead and implement one. This is expected to be announced early next week. Apparently the offer to pay for it (some might call it a bribe) was enough for Ford to change his mind (and principles).



DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> And we have a no politics rule in this forum.



The vaccine passport schemes are supposedly just public health measures. So technically that means they are not political matters.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 29, 2021)

33k in the air said:


> Another follow-up.
> 
> After the Prime Minister basically offered to pay all the costs of the development of a COVID passport system for interested provinces, it appears Premier Ford in Ontario will go back on his comments of earlier this year disparaging the idea of such passport schemes, and will go ahead and implement one. This is expected to be announced early next week. Apparently the offer to pay for it (some might call it a bribe) was enough for Ford to change his mind (and principles).
> 
> ...



Yet it is being made political…

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## Zipper730 (Aug 29, 2021)

ThomasP said:


> Basically:
> 
> The state may impose requirements and behaviors conducive to the prevention of the spread of disease (human-to-human communicable or otherwise) commensurate with the dangers presented by the disease.
> 
> ...


Correct. If I recall, and I'm not sure if this was an international agreement or an American only one, but there was some decision made around 1984 that stated that it was preferable to minimize the degree to which quarantines were to be used. From what I recall, the idea was to use the minimum degree to achieve the necessary public safety.


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## ARTESH (Aug 29, 2021)

Iran's leader banned any kind of non Iranian made Vaccines for xth time!

previously and at time of "Bam earthquake", here , they gave supplies sent by US and other Western countries to Hezbollah, not the Iranian people!

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## ThomasP (Aug 29, 2021)

Hey Zipper730,

Your are correct, although it was apparently 1981.

In 1951, the World Health Organization (WHO) adopted the International Sanitary Regulations (ISR), an evolution of the regulations sought by the nineteenth-century International Sanitary Conferences. The ISR were re-named the International Health Regulations (IHR) in 1969, and modified slightly in 1973 and 1981. The IHR are a legally-binding set of regulations adopted under the auspices of WHO as an international organization, and are one of the earliest multilateral regulatory mechanisms strictly focusing on global surveillance for communicable diseases. As of 1997, the IHR were legally binding on all WHO Member States except Australia.

Originally the IHR were a set of regulations for the control and sharing of epidemiological information on the transboundary spread of cholera, plague, and yellow fever; the fundamental principle is to ensure ‘‘maximum security against the international spread of diseases with a minimum interference with world traffic’’. To achieve this, the regulations provide for binding obligations on WHO Member States to notify WHO of any outbreaks of these three diseases in their territories. WHO then transmits this information to all the other Member States as part of its mandate on control and response to global outbreak and spread of infectious diseases.

The IHR list maximum public health measures applicable internationally during outbreaks and provide for rules applicable to international traffic and travel. These measures cover the requirements of health and vaccination certificates for travelers from areas infected by the three diseases covered to non-infected areas; de-ratting, de-insecting, and disinfecting of ships and aircraft, as well as detailed health measures at airports and seaports in the territories of WHO Member States. The maximum health measures allowed in outbreak situations are applied in order to protect the country that suffers an outbreak against the risk of unnecessary economic and other embargoes, which could be imposed by contiguous neighbors, trading partners, and other countries.

Note, by international agreement the WHO IHR only apply to interactions between countries, and do not mandate - or restrict - the actions taken within a country by said country's government. Measures taken by an individual nation state in order to control the spread of disease are upto the nation's government, except where any actions would constitute a Crime Against Humanity.

Some notes on the evolution of the IHR relative to new diseases.

In 1924 (before the WHO or UN existed), the Pan-American Sanitary Code provided for bi-weekly notification of ten specific diseases and any other diseases that the Pan-American Sanitary Bureau might add, and also for immediate notification of plague, cholera, yellow fever, smallpox, typhus, or any other dangerous contagion liable to spread through international commerce.

Originally the IHR covered only cholera, plague, and yellow fever. In 1995 the World Health Assembly adopted resolution WHA48.7 (Global health security: economic alert and response) which requested that the IHR be revised to take more effective account of the threat posed by the international spread of new and re-emerging diseases.

As of 2002 the diseases specifically covered were cholera, plague, yellow fever, smallpox, polio (wild variety), human influenza (of new subtypes), SARS-CoV-1, ebola, and any serious illnesses of unknown origin.

Since then MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2(COVID-19) have been added to the list.

PS. China (a WHO Member) failed to notify the WHO within the specified timeline allowed by the IHR. China has admitted this failure.

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## Vincenzo (Aug 30, 2021)

Italy report, 30th August, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,534,499 +45,720, deaths 129,146 +351, recovered 4,263,960, +39,531, active cases 141,393, +5,838, tests 56,997,959, +633,895, people tested 32,474,220, +375,801, vaccines administered 77,323,138, +1,778,858, people full vaccinated 37,566,607, +1,076,700.
fatality rate 2.8% (-0.1)
mortality rate 2,141 per million (+6)
positive rate 14% (=)
vaccines on population 1,281,946 per million (+29,492)
people full vaccinated 622,820 per million (+17,851)
test rate this week 10,509 per million (+1,177)
positive rate this week 12.2% (-0.7)
new case rate this week 758 per million (+21)
new vaccines this week 29,492 per million (+3,168)
people full vaccinated this week 17,851 per million (+3,966)


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## javlin (Sep 1, 2021)

Back on March 3 2020 I went to the hospital at almost 80% O2 pneumonia in the left lung first in 50years.It took five weeks of antibodies with week #5 being a dedicated one for pneumonia as it was moving into my second lung it killed it(pneumonia) .This past Saturday I was again tested and positive but it was really mild 101.5 fever,aching back and a sore throat.The fever was broke by Saturday @10PM sore throat gone Monday actually felt I could go back to work Sunday but protocol says else wise.I am fine now they shot a steroid gave me 5 days of a cortisol with Zinc.It has been said if you had the original CV19 and catch Delta it's suppose to be mild I have had head colds last longer than this just my experience may not be all's,never been vax.60yrs old

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## at6 (Sep 1, 2021)

You feel better but you are most likely still highly infectious. I am fully vaxxed and I still observe protocols as if I weren't vaxxed at all. I'd rather be safe than sorry. Stay well my friend.

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## SaparotRob (Sep 1, 2021)

Same as above.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 1, 2021)

Me three.


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## javlin (Sep 1, 2021)

Like a mother breastfeeds a baby to build it it up with the right immunity's for life I feel the original CV set #2 to be mild and the immunity system is being tailor made for me ATTM.God has a good Plan. 

Thjks for the kind words.

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## 33k in the air (Sep 2, 2021)

Back to data.

*CDC Provisional COVID Fatality Counts*
published September 1st

*Age group: COVID deaths (numerical change | percentage change) -- percentage of population | percentage of COVID deaths*

0-17 years: . . . . .400 . ( . . +15 | +3.90%) -- 22.25% | . 0.06%
18-29 years: . . 2,903 . ( . +142 | +5.14%) -- 16.37% | . 0.46%
30-39 years: . . 8,237 . ( . +360 | +4.57%) -- 13.46% | . 1.30%
40-49 years: . 21,376 . ( . +853 | +4.16%) -- 12.28% | . 3.37%
50-64 years: 104,010 . (+2,589 | +2.55%) -- 19.17% | 16.41%
65-74 years: 141,614 . (+2,267 | +1.63%) -- . 9.59% | 22.34%
75-84 years: 171,569 . (+2,070 | +1.22%) -- . 4.87% | 27.07%
85+ years: . .183,677 . (+1,505 | +0.83%) -- . 2.01% | 28.98%

The total number of COVID deaths was 633,786. During the same time period, a total of 4,816,027 deaths from other causes were recorded (7.6 times more).

Note: percentage of population calculation uses 2019 U.S. Census Bureau population estimates.

*CDC Provisional Counts*

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## The Basket (Sep 6, 2021)

I am in trouble.

Big troubles.
I have covid symptoms and feel like death on two legs.

My wife has tested positive.

Having test tomorrow.

I am fit and healthy normally so here goes.

Royally screwed.

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## pbehn (Sep 6, 2021)

Best of luck to you both.

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## Marcel (Sep 6, 2021)

The Basket said:


> I am in trouble.
> 
> Big troubles.
> I have covid symptoms and feel like death on two legs.
> ...


Best wishes from here. Hope you recover quickly.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 6, 2021)

Best of luck. Get well soon.

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## Vincenzo (Sep 6, 2021)

Italy report, 6th September, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,574,787 +40,288, deaths 129,567 +421, recovered 4,309,200, +45,240, active cases 136,020, -5,373, tests 57,696,131, +698,172, people tested 32,897,713, +423,493, vaccines administered 79,383,775, +2,060,637, people full vaccinated 38,852,487, +1,285,880.
fatality rate 2.8% (=)
mortality rate 2,148 per million (+7)
positive rate 13.9% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 1,316,109 per million (+34,163)
people full vaccinated 644,138 per million (+21,318)
test rate this week 11,575 per million (+1,066)
positive rate this week 9.5% (-2.7)
new case rate this week 668 per million (-90)
new vaccines this week 34,163 per million (+4,671)
people full vaccinated this week 21,319 per million (+3,468)


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## The Basket (Sep 7, 2021)

I am a horse of a man with no underlying health issues so I should be ok.

Double jabbed so who knows what happened to that.

My wife has lost all sense of taste and smell which is why she married me.

I haven't. Which is strange. 

At the moment I am fatigued and having trouble breathing. Panting like a dog. I spent last night coughing my lungs up and some interesting objects came up from god knows where. I am taking paracetamol as if it's sweeties. 

Anyone who is already seriously Ill could be in serious trouble.

Believe me this real. My aching lungs are proof.

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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 7, 2021)

Get well Basket!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 7, 2021)

My thoughts are with you.


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## SaparotRob (Sep 7, 2021)

The Basket said:


> I am in trouble.
> 
> Big troubles.
> I have covid symptoms and feel like death on two legs.
> ...


Hang in there bro'. I'd love to write something profound but you're better at that than me.


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## Marcel (Sep 7, 2021)

The Basket said:


> I am a horse of a man with no underlying health issues so I should be ok.
> 
> Double jabbed so who knows what happened to that.
> 
> ...


Which vaccine dit you get?


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## The Basket (Sep 7, 2021)

Astra zeneca


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## The Basket (Sep 7, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> Hang in there bro'. I'd love to write something profound but you're better at that than me.


Still alive bro.

But now I've lost my sense of smell and burning up like jet engine in full reheat.

I am not a happy bunny.

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## gumbyk (Sep 7, 2021)

The Basket said:


> Still alive bro.
> 
> But now I've lost my sense of smell and burning up like jet engine in full reheat.
> 
> I am not a happy bunny.


Look after yourself. At least you've given yourself the best chance of fighting it, you've just got to let your body and immune system do its thing.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 7, 2021)

My sister just tested positive as well. Just messaged me.

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## gumbyk (Sep 7, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> My sister just tested positive as well. Just messaged me.


Bugger. Hoping for a speedy recovery for her.

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## 33k in the air (Sep 7, 2021)

*Canada*
Public Health Agency of Canada data covering Dec 14, 2020, through Aug. 14, 2021. Published Sept, 3, 2021.

*Hospitalization Rate by Vaccination Status*
5.09% = unvaccinated (28,975 hospitalizations out of 569,216 unvaccinated cases)
7.39% = not yet protected (2,474 / 33,486)
7.33% = partially protected (2,416 / 32,971)
5.46% = fully protected (377 / 6,903)

*Fatality Rate by Vaccination Status*
1.06% = unvaccinated (6,035 deaths out of 569,216 unvaccinated cases)
1.91% = not yet protected (639 / 33,486)
1.73% = partially protected (570 / 32,971)
1.72% = fully protected (119 / 6,903)

Not yet protected = <14 days after first dose
Partially protected = 14+ days after first dose to <14 days after second dose
Fully protected = 14+ days after second dose

*Data source* (see Table 2 "Characteristics and severe outcomes associated unvaccinated, partially vaccinated and fully vaccinated confirmed cases reported to PHAC, as of August 14, 2021")


*Figures for the last four weeks*
(i.e. since the first report of this data was published Aug. 6th, which covered up through July 17th).

Unvaccinated
+16,548 cases, +1,034 hospitalizations, +139 deaths (6.25% hospitalization rate, 0.84% fatality rate)

Not Yet Protected
+735 cases, +28 hospitalizations, +3 deaths (3.81% hospitalization rate, 0.41% fatality rate)

Partially Protected
+4,487 cases, +89 hospitalizations, +9 deaths (1.98% hospitalization rate, 0.20% fatality rate)

Fully Protected
+3,784 cases, +136 hospitalizations, +30 deaths (3.59% hospitalization rate, 0.79% fatality rate)


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## 33k in the air (Sep 7, 2021)

*Ontario*
Public Health Ontario data covering Dec. 14, 2020, through Aug. 21, 2021. Published Aug. 31, 2021. Confirmed cases of COVID-19 following vaccination in the province of Ontario.

*Data Source*

*Hospitalization Rate*
5.03% = unvaccinated (18,114 hospitalizations out of 381,838 unvaccinated cases)
7.37% = partially vaccinated (1,331 / 18,048)
4.65% = fully vaccinated (176 / 3,782)

*ICU Admission Rate*
0.99% = unvaccinated (3,571 ICU admissions out of 381,838 unvaccinated cases)
1.00% = partially vaccinated (181 / 18,048)
0.56% = fully vaccinated (21 / 3,782)

*Fatality Rate*
1.25% = unvaccinated (4,509 deaths out of 381,838 unvaccinated cases)
1.81% = partially vaccinated (326 / 18,048)
1.67% = fully vaccinated (63 / 3,782)

Partially vaccinated = 14+ days after first dose to <14 days after second dose
Fully vaccinated = 14+ days after second dose


*Distribution of Cases by Age Group and Vaccination Status*
Age . . . . . . . Unvacc. ..Part. Vac.. Fully Vac.
12-17 years:. . 6.85% .. . .1.30% .. . .1.40% . . (64.7% of this age group is fully vaccinated)*
18-29 years:. 27.82% .. .13.51% .. .19.59% . . (65.6% of this age group is fully vaccinated)*
30-39 years:. 18.41% .. .11.51% .. .18.64% . . (70.5% of this age group is fully vaccinated)*
40-49 years:. 15.77% .. .12.78% .. .15.52% . . (75.9% of this age group is fully vaccinated)*
50-59 years:. 15.04% .. .16.99% .. .15.10% . . (80.1% of this age group is fully vaccinated)*
60-69 years:. . 8.79% .. .19.91% .. .12.80% . . (88.6% of this age group is fully vaccinated)*
70-79 years:. . 4.10% .. .12.51% .. . .5.45% . . (93.2% of this age group is fully vaccinated)*
80+ years:. . . .3.23% .. .11.50% .. .11.50% . .. (94.5% of this age group is fully vaccinated)*
Total:. . . . . .100.00% ..100.00% ..100.00%

* Percentage of age group fully vaccinated data as of Sept. 7th (*Source*)


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 7, 2021)

By the way you are not calculating your fatality rates correctly. I am sure you are fully aware of that though. Its the great thing about statistics. Everyone (and I mean everyone) manipulates them to support their agenda.

Non-vaccinated actually have a fatality rate of 1.11%, partially vaccinated have a fatality rate of 0.08% and fully vaccinated have a fatality rate of 0.02%.

To portray this correctly you have to divide the number of cases (63 for vaccinated for example) and divide it by the total cases (403,668). That gives you the actual fatality rate.

What you are portraying shows the rate for each group, but not the overall actual rate. This falsely makes it appear as if vaccinated people are dying more than unvaccinated which is “fake news”. This is a classic example of manipulating statistics. Some call it “alternative facts”.  I think we have had enough misinformation though…

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## gumbyk (Sep 7, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> By the way you are not calculating your fatality rates correctly. I am sure you are fully aware of that though. Its the great thing about statistics. Everyone (and I mean everyone) manipulates them to support their agenda.
> 
> Non-vaccinated actually have a fatality rate of 1.11%, partially vaccinated have a fatality rate of 0.08% and fully vaccinated have a fatality rate of 0.02%.
> 
> ...


I think that's his goal.
Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics.

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## 33k in the air (Sep 7, 2021)

*Ontario*
Public Health Ontario data covering Dec. 14, 2020, through Aug. 21, 2021. Published Aug. 31, 2021. Confirmed cases of COVID-19 following vaccination in the province of Ontario.

Detailed breakout by age and vaccination status.

*Data Source*

*Hospitalization Rate*
Age: Unvaccinated | Partially Vaccinated | Fully Vaccinated (hospitalizations / cases)

12-17 years: . 0.46% (113 / 24,662) .. .| . 1.70% (4 / 235) . . . . | . 0.00% (0 / 53)
18-29 years: . 0.86% (860 / 100,148) ..| . 0.33% (8 / 2,439) .. . | . 0.27% (2 / 741)
30-39 years: . 2.09% (1,388 / 66.272). | . 0.72% (15 / 2,077) .. | . 1.28% (9 / 705)
40-49 years: . 3.35% (1,899 / 56,762) .| . 1.65% (38 / 2,306) .. | . 1.02% (6 / 587)
50-59 years: . 5.84% (3,164 / 54,145) .| . 3.46% (106 / 3,066) .| . 1.58% (9 / 571)
60-69 years: 11.19% (3,542 / 31,643) .| . 6.04% (217 / 3,593) .| . 6.82% (33 / 484)
70-79 years: 23.40% (3,450 / 14,745) .| 14.18% (320 / 2,257) .| 11.17% (23 / 206)
80+ years: . .31.79% (3,698 / 11,631) .| 30.02% (623 / 2,075) .| 21.61% (94 / 435)

*ICU Admission Rate*
Age: Unvaccinated | Partially Vaccinated | Fully Vaccinated (ICU admissions / cases)

12-17 years: 0.06% (15 / 24,662) .. ..| . 0.00% (0 / 235) . . . | . 0.00% (0 / 53)
18-29 years: 0.11% (109 / 100,148) .| . 0.00% (0 / 2,439) . | . 0.00% (0 / 741)
30-39 years: 0.35% (229 / 66.272)..  | . 0.10% (2 / 2,077) .. | . 0.14% (1 / 705)
40-49 years: 0.71% (403 / 56,762) . .| . 0.22% (5 / 2,306) .. | . 0.00% (0 / 587)
50-59 years: .1.37% (743 / 54,145) . .| . 0.65% (20 / 3,066) .| . 0.35% (2 / 571)
60-69 years: .3.03% (958 / 31,643) .. | . 1.36% (49 / 3,593) .| . 2.07% (10 / 484)
70-79 years: .5.40% (796 / 14,745) .. | . 2.13% (48 / 2,257) .| . 1.94% (4 / 206)
80+ years: .. .2.73% (318 / 11,631) .. | . 2.75% (57 / 2,075) .| . 0.92% (4 / 435)

*Fatality Rate*
Age: Unvaccinated | Partially Vaccinated | Fully Vaccinated (deaths / cases)

12-17 years: . 0.00% (1 / 24,662) .. ... .| .. 0.00% (0 / 235) . . . | . 0.00% (0 / 53)
18-29 years: . 0.02% (23 / 100,148) .. .| .. 0.00% (0 / 2,439) . | . 0.00% (0 / 741)
30-39 years: . 0.07% (49 / 66.272).. . . | .. 0.00% (0 / 2,077) ... | . 0.00% (0 / 705)
40-49 years: . 0.20% (111 / 56,762) .. .| .. 0.22% (5 / 2,306) . . | . 0.00% (0 / 587)
50-59 years: ..0.58% (315 / 54,145) .. .| .. 0.23% (7 / 3,066) ... .| . 0.18% (1 / 571)
60-69 years: ..2.07% (656 / 31,643) ... | .. 1.03% (37 / 3,593) ...| . 1.03% (5 / 484)
70-79 years: ..7.18% (1,059 / 14,745)  | .. 2.66% (60 / 2,257) ...| . 2.91% (6 / 206)
80+ years: ...19.73% (2,295 / 11,631)  | .10.46% (217 / 2,075) .| .11.72% (51 / 435)

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 7, 2021)

Still doing it…

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## at6 (Sep 8, 2021)

Are you sure that he isn't related to Pops Paolo?


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## The Basket (Sep 8, 2021)

There is a relative who is anti vaxx to the Maxx.

She has a PhD from YouTube.

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## Marcel (Sep 8, 2021)

The Basket said:


> There is a relative who is anti vaxx to the Maxx.
> 
> She has a PhD from YouTube.


I also have a friend like that.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 8, 2021)

Marcel said:


> I also have a friend like that.



Its funny how many people barely passed 8th grade science and biology and all of a sudden are medical, virological, and statistical experts.

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## SaparotRob (Sep 8, 2021)

at6 said:


> Are you sure that he isn't related to Pops Paolo?


Punctuation is too good.

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## The Basket (Sep 8, 2021)

Now my lung capacity had gone.

Ay Caramba. I am Donald Ducked.

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## SaparotRob (Sep 8, 2021)

The Basket said:


> Now my lung capacity had gone.
> 
> Ay Caramba. I am Donald Ducked.


Man, you have my sympathies. It really must suck. I have no advice. Just hope the “discomfort “ passes quickly.

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## The Basket (Sep 8, 2021)

My goal is to say this is real.

I am real. I am not some bot or have an agenda.

So when I see or read any info from the anti vaxx or the conspiracy theorist then I can call nonsense on it.

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## at6 (Sep 8, 2021)

Praying for your recovery. Neighbor's daughter has been in hospital for last three weeks and no one knows when she will released. I belong to a local IPMS chapter and there is supposed to be a regional contest this weekend but I'm not going as it is an indoor venue. Updated member list indicates that one member has covid and another died 9/3/21 from it. I'm fully vaccinated but still not stupid.

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## SaparotRob (Sep 8, 2021)

HA! Got you beat. I'm both.

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## 33k in the air (Sep 8, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> What you are portraying shows the rate for each group, but not the overall actual rate.



That's the point. To show the rates *within each vaccination status category*. I thought this obvious.

How else can you compare whether the vaccines are indeed offer a lower rate of hospitalizations, ICU admissions, or deaths without separating the status groups and comparing the results of each status group to the others?



DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> This falsely makes it appear as if vaccinated people are dying more than unvaccinated which is “fake news”. This is a classic example of manipulating statistics. Some call it “alternative facts”.  I think we have had enough misinformation though…



They are *on a rate basis WITHIN each group*. The numbers are clearly listed. How anyone could get confused by them is a mystery to me.

1.25% = unvaccinated (4,509 deaths out of 381,838 unvaccinated cases)
1.81% = partially vaccinated (326 / 18,048)
1.67% = fully vaccinated (63 / 3,782)

The rate at which partially or fully vaccinated persons have died within their respective status group is higher than unvaccinated. It's right there in the numbers. It's not a large difference, to be sure -- four- to five-tenths of a percentage point. But there is a difference. The question is, will the rates within the partially and fully vaccinated groups stay at current levels or will they drop as the sample of cases gets larger? Are the rate differences a factor of the smaller sample sizes in the partially and fully vaccinated categories? Only time will tell.

Lumping all the deaths and cases together as you suggest hides the fact that there are definite in-group rate differences. I would call that deliberate obfuscation. I would call that "fake news", "alternative facts" and misinformation, to use your jargon.

Why would someone want to hide in-group rate differences?


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## 33k in the air (Sep 8, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> By the way you are not calculating your fatality rates correctly. I am sure you are fully aware of that though. Its the great thing about statistics. Everyone (and I mean everyone) manipulates them to support their agenda.
> 
> Non-vaccinated actually have a fatality rate of 1.11%, partially vaccinated have a fatality rate of 0.08% and fully vaccinated have a fatality rate of 0.02%.
> 
> ...



The in-group rates matter. They are not being discussed much because people such as yourself are lumping together apples, oranges, and lemons rather than looking at what is happening to the apples, oranges, and lemons individually.

If 5% of unvaccinated cases require hospitalization, but only 1% of fully vaccinated cases do, then clearly the vaccines are reducing the risk of hospitalization should one become infected. (It is beyond dispute that fully vaccinated individuals can become infected with COVID.)

But if 5% of fully vaccinated cases require hospitalization, then there is no difference in the rate, is there? In that instance, unvaccinated or fully vaccinated, you'd have the same 5% chance of being hospitalized if you became infected.

The question would be then, do the vaccines lower the chances of becoming infected in the first place? If they do, then having the same hospitalization rate is less of an issue, since that is outweighed by a lower chance of infection.

Do the vaccines significantly lower the chances of being infected? This is a key question now that the rates within each vaccination status group are becoming better defined.


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## ThomasP (Sep 8, 2021)

Hey 33k in the air,

re "Do the vaccines significantly lower the chances of being infected? This is a key question now that the rates within each vaccination status group are becoming better defined."

Read the rest of the report you cite, then read it again, and if necessary again. The "key question" you appear to be unsure of the answer to is quite clearly answered by the numbers in the report.

The chance of a fully vaccinated person being infected is far less than for the unvaccinated, at least as far as the currently actively spreading strains of COVID-19 are concerned. This could of course change in the future if more 'aggressive' strains of the virus become active.

If you feel you are capable of analyzing numbers/statistics, why do you not use the numbers/statistics in the report to present the infection rate for the unvaccinated vs the fully vaccinated? The math is not any more difficult than for the calculations you have already done.

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## ThomasP (Sep 8, 2021)

PS Here are some numbers you can use in the analysis.

As of 14:04 8 September 2021:

fully vaccinated: ~66% of all Canadians, or ~77% of the eligible population of age 12+
partially vaccinated: ~74% of all Canadians, or ~85% of the eligible population of age 12+
unvaccinated: ~26% of all Canadians, or ~15% of the eligible population of age 12+


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## SaparotRob (Sep 8, 2021)

ThomasP said:


> Hey 33k in the air,
> 
> re "Do the vaccines significantly lower the chances of being infected? This is a key question now that the rates within each vaccination status group are becoming better defined."
> 
> ...


oops


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## ThomasP (Sep 8, 2021)

?


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## SaparotRob (Sep 8, 2021)

Fat Finger Syndrome. Whilst scrolling, I accidentally hit the “Button Of No Escape”, the reply button.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 8, 2021)

33k in the air said:


> That's the point. To show the rates *within each vaccination status category*. I thought this obvious.
> 
> How else can you compare whether the vaccines are indeed offer a lower rate of hospitalizations, ICU admissions, or deaths without separating the status groups and comparing the results of each status group to the others?
> 
> ...


Because that is not how it works. Come on, I know you are smarter than that. If you are trying to show the percentage of vaccinated people who die versus the number of non-vaccinated who die, you have to use the total number of infections. That gives you the percentage of deaths that were vaccinated versus non-vaccinated. It’s simple math and statistics 101. All you are doing is falsely portraying the data to support your biased agenda. But you already know that…

In rate group differences as you call them don’t compare anything. You have to take the variables (i.e. vaccinated, non-vaccinated, etc.) and compare them against a like number to get an accurate percentage.

No one wants to hide in group data. But using the data to push and support false information as you are doing will be called out.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 8, 2021)

The Basket said:


> Now my lung capacity had gone.
> 
> Ay Caramba. I am Donald Ducked.



Get well my friend.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 8, 2021)

The Basket said:


> My goal is to say this is real.
> 
> I am real. I am not some bot or have an agenda.
> 
> So when I see or read any info from the anti vaxx or the conspiracy theorist then I can call nonsense on it.



Its sad we even have to have this discussion with these people.

just found out from my sister that her daughter and granddaughter have it as well.

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## ThomasP (Sep 8, 2021)

When COVID ameliorating actions (ie social distancing, shut downs, etc) were first announced and went into effect, I thought perhaps the US had managed to retain the lessons of the past. I was not thinking of the average person, it is unreasonable to expect any particular person to remember/be aware of all the things that have happened in the past, but I hoped that the socio-economic-political power structure had.

As it turned out, of all our institutions, as a body only the public education system, the public health agencies, and the health care systems remembered, and acted accordingly.

I was already quite aware of the historical aspect regarding the evil behavior of people during past epidemics, and while it was despicable, the level of evil efforts was (relative to today) considerably less. I had expected the usual amount of ignorance and mental illness to be a significant (but relatively small) problem. I really had not expected various people and groups to go out of their way to abuse the ignorant and the mentally ill to such an extent, to the point of actively killing people through deliberate misinformation in order to gain political and socio-economic (ie media/social media) power. The adverse effects of attempts at direct economic gain (ie snake oil sales of hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, etc) pale to the point of insignificance in comparison to the harm caused by other types of misinformation (ie anti-social distancing, anti-mask, anti-vaccination, anti-medical system, etc).

We could have done much better if more of our socio-economic-political leaders (and other groups and individuals) had behaved in a competent/non-evil manner.

I would have liked it if I did not have to feel embarrassed by the behavior my country.


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## at6 (Sep 9, 2021)

The new strains don't care if you are vaccinated or not. They still get you. No one knows what the MU strain will do but there is a concern that it will kill even the vaccinated apparently. Therefore, I will still practice ALL of the protocols including the avoidance of ladies who sell their wares on the street corner.

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## gumbyk (Sep 9, 2021)

at6 said:


> The new strains don't care if you are vaccinated or not. They still get you. No one knows what the MU strain will do but there is a concern that it will kill even the vaccinated apparently. Therefore, I will still practice ALL of the protocols including the avoidance of ladies who sell their wares on the street corner.


While you can still catch it, you're far less likely to end up hospitalised.

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## Gnomey (Sep 9, 2021)

33k in the air said:


> That's the point. To show the rates *within each vaccination status category*. I thought this obvious.
> 
> How else can you compare whether the vaccines are indeed offer a lower rate of hospitalizations, ICU admissions, or deaths without separating the status groups and comparing the results of each status group to the others?
> 
> ...


Your still misreading the statistics. 

I can tell you without statistics that the vaccines work, don’t need statistics to see what I can see everyday with my own eyes…

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 9, 2021)

Gnomey said:


> Your still misreading the statistics.
> 
> I can tell you without statistics that the vaccines work, don’t need statistics to see what I can see everyday with my own eyes…



You are just a doctor. What the hell do you know?

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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 9, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> You are just a doctor. What the hell do you know?


I'm not a doctor but I read the manual!!

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 9, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> I'm not a doctor but I read the manual!!


 
But do you know how to read the charts?

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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 9, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> But do you know how to read the charts?


Yes! They are self explanatory!

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## at6 (Sep 9, 2021)

I'm not a doctor but I will give free breast exams.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 9, 2021)

at6 said:


> I'm not a doctor but I will give free breast exams.



I cannot wait to fly back home tomorrow so I can give one.

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## Marcel (Sep 10, 2021)

Gnomey said:


> Your still misreading the statistics.
> 
> I can tell you without statistics that the vaccines work, don’t need statistics to see what I can see everyday with my own eyes…


So what effect do you see Hugh? I’m really interested in what the real effect is of the vaccines, also in combination with the different variants of the virus and the different types of vaccines. Would be great to hear some personal experiences instead of the things in the media.

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## The Basket (Sep 10, 2021)

I had a packet of crisps and no idea what flavour they were. Then tried curry sauce again no flavour. Bbq sauce again couldn't taste them.

Absolutely bizarre.

I feel much better now and hopefully over the worst of it. Still a bit poorly and lacking taste but back on the mend.

Didn't need hospital so maybe vaccine worked or my health was good enough. Dunno.

But thank you for the best wishes.

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## at6 (Sep 10, 2021)

Just gave myself an 80 proof Covid test. Test came back negative for Covid and positive for slight buzz.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2021)

The Basket said:


> I had a packet of crisps and no idea what flavour they were. Then tried curry sauce again no flavour. Bbq sauce again couldn't taste them.
> 
> Absolutely bizarre.
> 
> ...



Good tp hear you are on the upside.

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## Gnomey (Sep 10, 2021)

Marcel said:


> So what effect do you see Hugh? I’m really interested in what the real effect is of the vaccines, also in combination with the different variants of the virus and the different types of vaccines. Would be great to hear some personal experiences instead of the things in the media.


Much less admissions and ITU requirement. Without vaccine we peaked at ~75 ITU COVIDs and ~550 total inpatients (around 55% hospital capacity and 250% ITU capacity). Now with the vaccine and similar levels of community transmission we have ~50 inpatients and ~15 on ITU (all non vaccinated or antivax). Less than 5 vaccinated ITU patients (all single dose) very few deaths for the most part among vaccinated population.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2021)

Gnomey said:


> Much less admissions and ITU requirement. Without vaccine we peaked at ~75 ITU COVIDs and ~550 total inpatients (around 55% hospital capacity and 250% ITU capacity). Now with the vaccine and similar levels of community transmission we have ~50 inpatients and ~15 on ITU (all non vaccinated or antivax). Less than 5 vaccinated ITU patients (all single dose) very few deaths for the most part among vaccinated population.



Unfortunately these people think you are part of the great global conspiracy to control them. Free your mind!

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## ThomasP (Sep 10, 2021)

To be fair, some are just ignorant and afraid. The same personal fear(?) - not sure of the right wording for this aspect of human behavior - generated by ignorance, occurred during the previous pandemics also. And this fear is endemic (at a relatively low noise level) even during non-pandemic times.

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## Marcel (Sep 10, 2021)

It’s also lacking the skills of critical thinking https://resources.saylor.org/wwwres...-content/uploads/2011/06/BIO101-lab-1-4th.pdf

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## Greg Boeser (Sep 10, 2021)

Or maybe having personal knowledge of people who died shortly after getting the vaccine, or had severe adverse reactions has caused skepticism. I know a couple who have had severe, long lasting complications due to the vaccine. The CDC keeps revising its count of vaccine adverse reactions down.


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 10, 2021)

I've only know of one person who had issues with the vaccine - blood clots in his legs. I think the "adverse reactions" and possible deaths related to the vaccine are microscopic compared to the number of people who got vaccinated with little or no side effects.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> Or maybe having personal knowledge of people who died shortly after getting the vaccine, or had severe adverse reactions has caused skepticism. I know a couple who have had severe, long lasting complications due to the vaccine. The CDC keeps revising its count of vaccine adverse reactions down.



And those people that die or have had severe complications are far and few between. Far far far less than those who have died from the virus.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 10, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> I've only know of one person who had issues with the vaccine - blood clots in his legs. I think the "adverse reactions" and possible deaths related to the vaccine are microscopic compared to the number of people who got vaccinated with little or no side effects.



You are more likely to be struck by lightning twice or eaten by a shark.

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## at6 (Sep 11, 2021)

My only reaction to the vaccine was a sudden urge to mate with seagulls.

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## ThomasP (Sep 11, 2021)

From 14 December 2020 through 7 September 2021, over 375,000,000 doses of COVID-19 vaccines (Moderna, Pfizer, J&J) were administered in the US, resulting in ~177,400,000 fully or partially vaccinated people.

During the same time period, there were 7,439 (0.0020%) reports of medically related death among people who had recently received a COVID-19 vaccine. Of these deaths, only 28 (as of 7 September) can currently be reasonably attributed to the effect of a COVID-19 vaccination, all of the deaths due to Thrombosis with Thrombocytopenia Syndrome (TTS). TTS is a result of the formation of blood clots. Death can result when these blood clots affect something important like the brain or heart. All of the deaths (I think) occurred in people with significant health problems similar to those that increase the chance of death if infected with COVID-19.

As of 7 September, Thrombosis with Thrombocytopenia Syndrome (TTS) has occurred in 47 vaccine recipients. 45 of the TTS cases occurred in the 14,300,000 J&J vaccine recipients. Out of the 45 confirmed cases among the J&J recipients, there were 28 deaths. There have been 2 reports of TTS in recipients of the Moderna vaccine, with 0 deaths. There have been 0 reports of TTS in recipients of the Pfizer vaccine.

So basically, there is currently a 1 in 510,714 chance of dying as a result of being vaccinated against COVID-19, but only if you get the J&J vaccine. If you get the Moderna or Pfizer the chance is currently 0.

There have, however, been other adverse reactions after receiving a COVID-19 vaccine.

As of 7 September, anaphylaxis (allergic reaction) has occurred at a rate of 2-5 out of 1,000,000 of the people vaccinated in the United States*. *This rate is within the same range as for other vaccines. There have been no reported deaths in the US due toCOVID-19 vaccine induced anaphylaxis.

As of 7 September, Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS) has been reported in 185 recipients of the J&J vaccine, a rate of 1 in 77,297 - which is about 0.0003% higher than occurs due to all other causes. An average of about 6300 non-vaccine related cases of GBS occur in the US each year. While its cause is not fully understood, the syndrome often follows infection with a virus or bacteria, and since the J&J vaccine uses an inactivated corona virus (a common cold variant) as part of its composition . . . As of 7 September there have been 0 known cases of GBS in the Moderna or Pfizer recipients (both of which use a form of mRNA).

As of 7 September, there have been 817 confirmed reports of myocarditis or pericarditis after vaccination for COVID-19. Most occurred in younger recipients (age 18-30) of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine, a significantly lesser number occurred in the recipients of the J&J vaccine. This is a rate of ~1 in 216,646.

Source for the above: CDC records

In the US, about 660 people are struck by lightning each year, for a chance of about 1 in 500,000. Over the last decade or so the average number of deaths in the US due to a lightning strike has been ~27/year. However, about 90% of lightning strike survivors receive disabling injuries of one degree or another.

Source for the above: National Weather Service records

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 11, 2021)

Aka, serious side effects are not common. Stop getting information from biased sources of misinformation.

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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 11, 2021)

My ex is a labor and delivery nurse. Last week they had 12 patients in labor and delivery, 3 had COVID.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 11, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> My ex is a labor and delivery nurse. Last week they had 12 patients in labor and delivery, 3 had COVID.



Several of my friends from HS are ICU nurses in Covid wards. They are so exhausted and tired of it. The wards are beyond capacity, and taking resources from other patients with other needs. All of their patients are unvaccinated people. Two of my friends just announced they are done and quitting their jobs as nurses in the ICUs because they are so exhausted and tired of it.

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## Gnomey (Sep 11, 2021)

at6 said:


> My only reaction to the vaccine was a sudden urge to mate with seagulls.


My only one was an increase in 5G phone signal

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## SaparotRob (Sep 11, 2021)

Gnomey said:


> My only one was an increase in 5G phone signal


See if you can get a booster shot and Wi-Fi.


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## Marcel (Sep 11, 2021)

Gnomey said:


> My only one was an increase in 5G phone signal


I’ve been talking to the CIA since o got my shots.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 11, 2021)

I was just talking to one of my nurse friends who is quitting her position. She was practically crying because of the misinformation and BS that people believe. Their selfishness and lack of responsibility is why we are failing, and why nurses like her and doctors are at their last breath fighting this. This country’s response is sad really.


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## Marcel (Sep 11, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I was just talking to one of my nurse friends who is quitting her position. She was practically crying because of the misinformation and BS that people believe. Their selfishness and lack of responsibility is why we are failing, and why nurses like her and doctors are at their last breath fighting this. This country’s response is sad really.


Not only in the US Chris. It’s everywhere.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 11, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Not only in the US Chris. It’s everywhere.



Yeah, but there was a time this country would stand united during turbulent times. Now we act like adolescent children.

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## Marcel (Sep 11, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Yeah, but there was a time this country would stand united during turbulent times. Now we act like adolescent children.


So do we unfortunately


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 11, 2021)

Spoke to the ex a little while ago - 8 in L&D, 3 with COVID, other 3 who did deliver their babies transferred to another floor because they are on a respirator.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 11, 2021)

Sad…


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 11, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Sad…


Yep - and I'm sure there are some out there who thinks this is all made up


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 11, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Yep - and I'm sure there are some out there who thinks this is all made up



And the really sad thing is the number of educated people that think it. This hoax is more elaborate than the moon landing, it involves billions of people around the world fooling America instead of the approximate 400,000 that kept the moon landing hoax a secret.

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## buffnut453 (Sep 11, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> And the really sad thing is the number of educated people that think it. This hoax is more elaborate than the moon landing, it involves billions of people fooling America instead of the approximate 400,000 that kept the moon landing hoax a secret.



And 2 of my work colleagues were in on it because they were both hospitalized, and one went on a ventilator, due to this imaginary virus.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 11, 2021)

buffnut453 said:


> And 2 of my work colleagues were in on it because they were both hospitalized, and one went on a ventilator, due to this imaginary virus.



I lost a co-worker, and another ended up in the ICU. I had it in April of 2020 (mild), and now my sister, her daughter, and her grandson have it. It’s an elaborate hoax.


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## Marcel (Sep 11, 2021)

I blame it all on chemtrails.

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## pbehn (Sep 11, 2021)

People are crap with statistics and crap with language.
If you fly on a passenger plane you are unlikely to die by natural causes, you are unlikely to be on a plane where someone dies by natural causes or meet someone who has been on such a flight but if you operate a big airline it is absolutely certain it will happen so all crews must be trained to cope. There are about 1,350 people die every day in UK by all sorts of means from the obvious like age and cancer to the completely batshit crazy like walking under a bus looking at a phone or leaping into the sea to rescue a dog. 
The difference between knowing a person and knowing of a person is huge. In my life I have known maybe a few thousand people to a greater or lesser extent, the old dear who serves in the local supermarket knows of a few thousand people a week. If she hears of someone dying of something noteworthy, everyone she serves hears about it for a week and they will all have "heard of" it.


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## ThomasP (Sep 11, 2021)

Hence the ideas contained in the 'Six degrees of separation', the 'Six handshake rule', and the 'Three degrees of influence'.


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## ThomasP (Sep 11, 2021)

Hey DerAdleristGelandet,

re "Aka, serious side effects are not common. Stop getting information from biased sources of misinformation."

Your were referring to . . ?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 11, 2021)

ThomasP said:


> Hey DerAdleristGelandet,
> 
> re "Aka, serious side effects are not common. Stop getting information from biased sources of misinformation."
> 
> Your were referring to . . ?



I was adding to your post. Further elaboration. I.e. saying that serious side effects are not common unless someone gets their information from dubious sources.

I was not implying that you were doing that.


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## ThomasP (Sep 11, 2021)

Sorry, just wanted to be sure there was no misunderstanding.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 11, 2021)

To go along with my earlier post about friends of mine so exhausted they are giving up and quitting their ICU jobs. This article shows how sad it has become. Its an interesting read to the end.









Even on their death beds, some COVID-19 patients in Idaho still reject vaccination


Just a few months ago, there were only five COVID-19 patients, at Saint Alphonsus Regional Medical Center in Boise, Idaho. Nearly all of these patients are not vaccinated, a reflection of "the amount of misinformation that's being absorbed, and taken as truth in our community because people are...




www.yahoo.com

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 11, 2021)

These kind of people…









Adults laughed at a teen who was talking at a Tennessee school-board meeting about his grandmother dying of COVID-19, video shows


A woman in the background can be seen laughing, smirking, and shaking her head while he was speaking.




www.yahoo.com


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 11, 2021)

Idiots


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## SaparotRob (Sep 12, 2021)

It's like we're in the "Golden Age of Stupidity". I was very disappointed to learn that the Flat Earth Society wasn't a joke.

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## Greg Boeser (Sep 12, 2021)

I've got a cousin who is a member. I've got a former coworker who believes that the US Marines invaded the Vatican and fought the Swiss Guard in the catacombs, where they recovered 50 C-17 loads of stashed gold. Oops! OPSEC!!

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

I know a guy who is a firm believer in all the conspiracies. He is a die hard Qer, and believes everything that pig farmer in the Philippines spews to his flock.

Chemtrails 
Democrats drink the blood of babies
5G vaccine BS
Tracking devises

If you can think of one, he 100% believes it. It’s frightening. He was a good friend of mine growing up, but I had to let him go. I have no desire to hear from him again.

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## special ed (Sep 12, 2021)

The herd gets thinned because of the stupid ones I taught my last daughter, "If you are stupid, you die. Don't get eliminated." She is twenty eight and if one were to ask her today, "What did your father teach you?" she would give that answer. As an example of early training, at about five years old, she was standing in front of the TV watching Steve Irwin in the US(Arizona) pull a large rattlesnake from under a rock. He said, "A snake this size can kill you in 20 minutes." She said, "Don't touch it, kill it." I knew she would be all right.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

Why kill it? Just don’t touch it…

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)



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## Greg Boeser (Sep 12, 2021)



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## The Basket (Sep 12, 2021)

I have now self isolated for 7 days and have now started on the Vodka and Lemonade as my new salvation.

I am so bored.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

Glad you are feeling better my friend.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

the parents of a kid in my sons class tested positive. Waiting to find out about the kid and whether we are quarantined.


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## The Basket (Sep 12, 2021)

Horse dewormer?

Er....they won't take a vaccine but they will take a horse dewormer?

Is this some logic I don't get?

Surely any rational argument against a vaccine is the same as taking a horse dewormer?


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## SaparotRob (Sep 12, 2021)

Glad you're back.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

The kid tested negative.


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## CATCH 22 (Sep 12, 2021)

The Basket said:


> Horse dewormer?
> 
> Er....they won't take a vaccine but they will take a horse dewormer?
> 
> ...


It was just a joke-fable, where a fable _features animals, legendary creatures, plants, inanimate objects, or forces of nature that are anthropomorphized, and that illustrates or leads to a particular moral lesson (a "moral"), which may at the end be added explicitly as a concise maxim or saying (wiki). _
Nobody will take a horse dewormer (exept in a Marx Brothers movie, A Day at the Races I believe), but as I remember some people drank chlorine cleaner, because a great leader said so...or did he....


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## Vincenzo (Sep 12, 2021)

Vodka and Lemonade is very good


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

CATCH 22 said:


> It was just a joke-fable, where a fable _features animals, legendary creatures, plants, inanimate objects, or forces of nature that are anthropomorphized, and that illustrates or leads to a particular moral lesson (a "moral"), which may at the end be added explicitly as a concise maxim or saying (wiki). _
> Nobody will take a horse dewormer (exept in a Marx Brothers movie, A Day at the Races I believe), but as I remember some people drank chlorine cleaner, because a great leader said so...or did he....



Actually some have taken a dewormer for Covid. Largely thanks to misinformation from Faux News.









Demand Surges for Deworming Drug for Covid, Despite Scant Evidence It Works


Prescriptions for ivermectin have jumped to more than 88,000 per week, some pharmacists are reporting shortages and people are overdosing on forms of the drug meant for horses.




 www.google.com


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## Greg Boeser (Sep 12, 2021)

Ivermectin is a drug that, like many pharmaceuticals, has both human and veterinary applications.
Referring to it only as a horse dewormer is fake news. 








Ivermectin | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines


Review clinical data on the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19.



www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov


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## pbehn (Sep 12, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Why kill it? Just don’t touch it…


A bull or a horse can kill you in much less than 20 minutes, the secret is not having bulls, horses and rocks with snakes underneath in your house.


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## pbehn (Sep 12, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> Ivermectin is a drug that, like many pharmaceuticals, has both human and veterinary applications.
> Referring to it only as a horse dewormer is fake news.
> 
> 
> ...


Warfarin can be used to kill rodents or as an anti coagulant, these is a massive difference between the quality and doses of the drug, you cant even use industrial oxygen in a hospital without killing people. Having people self medicate from what they have heard somewhere is dangerous nonsense.


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## Greg Boeser (Sep 12, 2021)

Agreed. I trust my doctor to prescribe for me the proper medication to treat whatever ails me. I do not shop the internet looking for that great miracle cure, no matter how hot the model in the ad looks.


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## Marcel (Sep 12, 2021)

The Basket said:


> I have now self isolated for 7 days and have now started on the Vodka and Lemonade as my new salvation.
> 
> I am so bored.


Can you taste the lemonade?


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## Greg Boeser (Sep 12, 2021)

Speaking of anti-coagulants, my brother had to take Lovenox for the blood clot in his lung while in the hospital. I do not relish his hospital bill.
My wife needed it to treat her DVT when she was pregnant with our fourth child.
We had to pay out of pocket for three months before the insurance agreed to cover it. The cost was 1.5 times my monthly take home pay at the time.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> Ivermectin is a drug that, like many pharmaceuticals, has both human and veterinary applications.
> Referring to it only as a horse dewormer is fake news.
> 
> 
> ...



Referring to it as a cure for Covid is fake news…


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## pbehn (Sep 12, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> Speaking of anti-coagulants, my brother had to take Lovenox for the blood clot in his lung while in the hospital. I do not relish his hospital bill.
> My wife needed it to treat her DVT when she was pregnant with our fourth child.
> We had to pay out of pocket for three months before the insurance agreed to cover it. The cost was 1.5 times my monthly take home pay at the time.


My mother had a pulmonary embolism, she was treated with warfarin, a side effect is dizziness, she fell down the stairs, split her lip and banged her knee. I called an ambulance straight away, by the time she arrived in hospital she looked like the victim of a serious assault/RTA.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

Maybe they should tell people to take rat poisoning to cure Covid. Its the same people that believe all the conspiracy and “the virus is hoax” BS that will believe it. Thin the herd a bit…

I’m kidding, I’m kidding…

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## The Basket (Sep 12, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Can you taste the lemonade?


I don't know. I can taste the bubbles!

I am not tasting the vodka so probably using too much lemonade.

Will be past quarantine Thursday so I am going to go for a walk that day.

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## Greg Boeser (Sep 12, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Referring to it as a cure for Covid is fake news…


The report recommends neither for nor against its use to treat (not cure) Covid. Everybody wants the silver bullet, but each person is unique. Treatments that work on some are deadly for others, which is why the vaccine has killed thousands. The percentage of people dying from the vaccine is a miniscule fraction of those dosed, but if you are one of the unfortunate ones, what difference does it make whether it was the disease or the cure that killed you?


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## pbehn (Sep 12, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> The report recommends neither for nor against its use to treat (not cure) Covid. Everybody wants the silver bullet, but each person is unique. Treatments that work on some are deadly for others, which is why the vaccine has killed thousands. The percentage of people dying from the vaccine is a miniscule fraction of those dosed, but if you are one of the unfortunate ones, what difference does it make whether it was the disease or the cure that killed you?


Why isnt the same argument used for driving cars, consuming alcohol and almost every human activity, people should stay in bed all day and find out just how dangerous staying in bed all day is, especially if everyone else does.


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## Greg Boeser (Sep 12, 2021)

Good point. I once saw a show in which behavioral risk was discussed. An engineer talked about how the increased safety features on cars resulted in people engaging in riskier driving. He made the tongue in cheek suggestion that the way to improve driving safety was to replace the air bag with a large spike pointed at the chest of the driver.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> The report recommends neither for nor against its use to treat (not cure) Covid. Everybody wants the silver bullet, but each person is unique. Treatments that work on some are deadly for others, which is why the vaccine has killed thousands. The percentage of people dying from the vaccine is a miniscule fraction of those dosed, but if you are one of the unfortunate ones, what difference does it make whether it was the disease or the cure that killed you?



Uh, care to show where thousands have died from the vaccine? That is factually untrue…


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

In fact there are three, 3, THREE confirmed accounts where someone died from the vaccine in the United States. Three..

The story of thousands is another case of misinterpreted reports, and false misinformation campaigns.









No, the CDC’s VAERS database does not show thousands of people have died from COVID-19 vaccines


The questions about vaccine-related deaths have increased since the FDA recently granted full approval to Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine.




www.google.com


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## gumbyk (Sep 12, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> In fact there are three, 3, THREE confirmed accounts where someone died from the vaccine in the United States. Three..
> 
> The story of thousands is another case of misinterpreted reports, and false misinformation campaigns.
> 
> ...


From what I understand, if there is a suspected death from a reaction, it gets added to the list, and then investigated. If it's then determined that it wasn't vaccine related, then its removed.

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## pbehn (Sep 12, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> Good point. I once saw a show in which behavioral risk was discussed. An engineer talked about how the increased safety features on cars resulted in people engaging in riskier driving. He made the tongue in cheek suggestion that the way to improve driving safety was to replace the air bag with a large spike pointed at the chest of the driver.


This is utter nonsense. Did the engineer actually know the history of automobiles? In the 1950s it was common for a steering wheel to be obviously dangerous to the driver, it didnt slow anyone down and didnt stop the cars being made until the manufacturers were told to stop it by crash tests. example below, and there are worse, I just cant be bothered to trawl all the pictures


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

gumbyk said:


> From what I understand, if there is a suspected death from a reaction, it gets added to the list, and then investigated. If it's then determined that it wasn't vaccine related, then its removed.



There have been three confirmed vaccine related deaths (in the USA). Thats it. The thousands number originated on social media.


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## pbehn (Sep 12, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> There have been three confirmed vaccine related deaths (in the USA). Thats it. The thousands number originated on social media.


In UK a death with a positive covid test one month before has it recorded on the death certificate whether covid had any involvement in the death or not, when you have 1,350 people dying every day for all reasons, covid can kill itself, it can accelerate death or it can have no influence at all (like a passenger in a car crash) but all are added to the statistics.


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## gumbyk (Sep 12, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> There have been three confirmed vaccine related deaths (in the USA). Thats it. The thousands number originated on social media.


I think we're both saying essentially the same thing - suspected deaths get added to the list pending confirmation, and then almost certainly get removed.

We've had one confirmed death here from about 1.5 million who have both doses and a further two million who have one.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

A group of quacks in the US called the “America’s Frontline Doctors”, which has been known to spread misinformation and fake news made a bogus claim that 45,000 people (That’s right 45,000… ) have died because of the vaccine in 72 hours. There is no evidence and has been debunked by any credible source.

It’s funny, the people who screamed “Fake News” the last 6 years are the ones duped by actual fake news, and don’t even realize it.


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## Greg Boeser (Sep 12, 2021)

So quoting a paper from April about a single type of adverse reaction is proof that there have only been 3 confirmed deaths?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 12, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> So quoting a paper from April about a single type of adverse reaction is proof that there have only been 3 confirmed deaths?



Ok, you made the claim of thousands. Back it up with proof.


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## Greg Boeser (Sep 12, 2021)

Unfortunately, I can't. I don't have access to all the medical records of all the people who have been reported to VAERS. 
Also, I have experience with reporting adverse reactions to vaccines. The medical establishment is very reluctant to confirm that a condition that manifested a short time after a vaccination is _caused _by the vaccination. Best to repeat the "safe and effective" mantra. By the way, I am not anti-vax. My family is current on all vaccines recommended by our doctors.
Just let me check my rabies and distemper tags. Yep, we're good.


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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 13, 2021)

For what its worth to some...









Fact check: There is no evidence 45,000 people died from vaccine-related complications


Some are falsely claiming COVID-19 vaccines led to 45,000 deaths in three days, but the CDC says this never happened.



www.usatoday.com


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## The Basket (Sep 13, 2021)

The danger here is stupidity v stupid.

By offering alternative views you may not be telling the truth. This is fine when it's flat earth or aliens or chemtrails cos that's just stupidity. But when it's people's lives then that is simply unfair.

By saying the vaccine is dangerous when you have no proof other than hearsay and nonsense is just wrong.

That means people are going to not take it.

I am expert on covid and I can guarantee you dollars to donuts that people will die from it. Yes, the sick and elderly and already infirm but they will die from covid nevertheless.

So it should be our role and responsibility to say that vaccine is worthwhile and that following social rules should be done. 

It may not save lives but it could limit the number who die.

Statistics are what they are. If you ask every citiizen in the USA to run the 100 metres then yes people will die doing so. The fact that one individual died because of the vaccine does not mean the people who were saved because of the vaccine are not counted.

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## ThomasP (Sep 13, 2021)

Hey Greg Boeser,

re ". . . The medical establishment is very reluctant to confirm that a condition that manifested a short time after a vaccination is _caused _by the vaccination. Best to repeat the "safe and effective" mantra. . ."

I assume that you do not know that these statements are actually the opposite of what is the case. The "medical establishment" is told to look for any serious medical event that might reasonably be linked to the vaccines, and report such events to the CDC - usually through the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System). They are encouraged to report on the basis of worst possible case - and let the epidemiological studies sort out which are accurately attributable to receiving a COVID-19 vaccine, and which are not.

Hey anyone re '45,000 deaths' due to COVID-19 vaccines,

For any large number of deaths to occur and go unreported by the "medical establishment", EVERY professional in the "medical establishment" would have to be part of the conspiracy to keep it quiet. EVERY DOCTOR, EVERY NURSE, EVERY CORONER, etc - EVERYONE. The fact that the "medical establishment" has not reported 45,000 vaccine caused deaths since the vaccination program began (let alone in a 72 hr period) should tell any rational person that there have not been 45,000 deaths due to the COVID-19 vaccines. While the drug companies have a monetary interest in the vaccines, 99% of the "medical establishment" personnel have no vested interest in the COVID-19 vaccines - other than that the vaccines reduce the amount of suffering they have to deal with, reduce the number of deaths they have to witness, and reduce their workload.

I cannot speak for every member of the professional "medical establishment", only for the ones that I know, and I think I can accurately say that none of them would accept a cover-up. Not the ones in the North Memorial system, not the ones in the HCMC Hennepin County system, not the ones in the UofM medical system, not the ones in the US Army or Navy Medical Corps.

On the other hand, America's Frontline Doctors is a for profit business. They currently make a huge percentage of their income through online consults with the patients and prescribing treatment with drugs like Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, etc. - that have no proven benefit in the area of COVID-19 treatment. They charge $90 for the initial contact, then go up from there. The drugs they prescribe, they also sell - for 2-3x as much as you would pay if the drugs were being prescribed by a reputable doctor for an accepted medical regimen. Their services (re COVID-19 treatment) are not covered by any medical insurance provider (in any country, as far as I can find) and they are not regulated as such. Because of the lack of regulation they can prescribe any method of treatment they wish, without penalty, provided that it can not be proven to cause serious harm or death. They can prescribe water, vinegar, mineral oil, or any other quackery they choose - and charge you as much as you are willing to pay. To make up and/or repeat lies that scare ignorant people into accepting 'alternative treatments' makes perfectly rational sense for them - evil sense, but rational since it helps them get what they want.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 13, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> Unfortunately, I can't. I don't have access to all the medical records of all the people who have been reported to VAERS.
> Also, I have experience with reporting adverse reactions to vaccines. The medical establishment is very reluctant to confirm that a condition that manifested a short time after a vaccination is _caused _by the vaccination. Best to repeat the "safe and effective" mantra. By the way, I am not anti-vax. My family is current on all vaccines recommended by our doctors.
> Just let me check my rabies and distemper tags. Yep, we're good.



And the CDC has reported that VAERS does not say that thousands of deaths attributed to the vaccination have died. In fact it was three. People purposely trying to report misinformation are taking thr data from VAERS and purposely misreporting it. Its another prime example of fake news and people being duped by it, usually by the “Everything that does not agree with my preconceived bias is Fake News crowd.” 

*Note: not saying you are one of these people. Although you are spreading Fake News if you are going around telling people that thousands of people have died from the vaccine.









No, the CDC’s VAERS database does not show thousands of people have died from COVID-19 vaccines


The questions about vaccine-related deaths have increased since the FDA recently granted full approval to Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine.




www.google.com













No, data on this CDC site does not prove thousands have died from COVID-19 vaccines


Anyone can report any suspected vaccine side effects to the VAERS database, but those reports are not verified evidence.




www.google.com













Fact Check-VAERS data does not prove thousands died from receiving COVID-19 vaccines


Updated to correct repeated clause and quotation in paragraph 12.




www.google.com

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## Vincenzo (Sep 13, 2021)

Italy report, 13th September, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,609,205 +34,418, deaths 129,955 +388, recovered 4,353,346, +44,146, active cases 125,904, -10,116, tests 58,398,719, +702,588, people tested 33,300,869, +403,165, vaccines administered 81,017,649, +1,633,874, people full vaccinated 40,006,727, +1,154,240.
fatality rate 2.8% (=)
mortality rate 2,155 per million (+7)
positive rate 13.8% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 1,343,198 per million (+27,089)
people full vaccinated 663,274 per million (+19,136)
test rate this week 11,648 per million (+73)
positive rate this week 8.5% (-1)
new case rate this week 571 per million (-97)
new vaccines this week 27,088 per million (-7,075)
people full vaccinated this week 19,136 per million (-2,183)

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## Greg Boeser (Sep 13, 2021)

Double standard. Every death within 30 days of a positive Covid test is to be regarded as a Covid death unless it can be proven that the death was not from Covid (Homicide, car accident, suicide, etc.) Do those states that allow assisted suicide report a person who ends their life after a positive Covid test count that as a Covid death? 
Any death reported following a Covid vaccine should not be regarded as a vaccine death unless there is thorough proof. Apparently nobody has looked at the reports since April, so no more vaccine deaths. Simple.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 13, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> Double standard. Every death within 30 days of a positive Covid test is to be regarded as a Covid death unless it can be proven that the death was not from Covid (Homicide, car accident, suicide, etc.) Do those states that allow assisted suicide report a person who ends their life after a positive Covid test count that as a Covid death?
> Any death reported following a Covid vaccine should not be regarded as a vaccine death unless there is thorough proof. Apparently nobody has looked at the reports since April, so no more vaccine deaths. Simple.



No, double standard at all. if the vaccine caused the death it should be reported as a vaccine death.

So I ask again, are you going to provide factual evidence to back your claim, or just spread misinformation and fake news? You made the claim, so back it up.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 13, 2021)

Also show something other than fake news that shows that non-covid deaths are being reported as actual covid deaths. Thats been debunked too.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 13, 2021)

Oh wait here is that fact checking stuff…









Social Media Posts Make Baseless Claim on COVID-19 Death Toll - FactCheck.org


Viral posts wrongly suggest that the COVID-19 death toll is exaggerated because "the state" has instructed that "anyone who didnt die by a gun shot wound or car accident" be listed as a coronavirus victim. Experts say there is no such default classification -- and that the U.S. death count is...




www.factcheck.org













How are COVID-19 deaths counted? It’s complicated


As the U.S. death toll nears a half-million, confusion continues over whether people die “of” COVID-19 or “with” COVID-19. Here’s what’s behind the numbers.




www.aamc.org

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## nuuumannn (Sep 13, 2021)

The Basket said:


> I am a horse of a man with no underlying health issues so I should be ok.
> 
> Double jabbed so who knows what happened to that.
> 
> ...



I wish you well, my friend. Get well soon.


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## nuuumannn (Sep 13, 2021)

gumbyk said:


> I think that's his goal.





The Basket said:


> Now my lung capacity had gone.





33k in the air said:


> Do the vaccines significantly lower the chances of being infected? This is a key question now that the rates within each vaccination status group are becoming better defined.



So, we should just not vaccinate? Is that what you are saying? Better to let people get the disease than to attempt to prevent them from getting it? Is this how modern medicine works? Let people get sick now, rather than attempting to do something about it?

See, this is what annoys me about all these folk who go on about the COVID death rate as not being a thing compared to other illnesses. So what if fewer people have died from it than influenza or such like? Should we just accept that losses are inevitable and just do nothing?

They're missing the point. The death rate is not the issue with COVID, it's the infection rate, which is far higher and faster than the flu or the common cold, also, COVID does permanent damage to the lungs and erodes the human immune system, which makes those who catch it more susceptible to infection by nasty respiratory illnesses, such as tuberculosis, pneumonia, SARS and even the flu and the common cold.

Why is this bad and why does the virus need to be stopped? Because, at the current rate of infection, health services in countries around the world cannot cope with the high number of patients falling ill and requiring health facilities all at once. This is after years of governments around the world wasting money on irrelevant stuff instead of focussing on improving access to health care for the majority of the population.



at6 said:


> My only reaction to the vaccine was a sudden urge to mate with seagulls.



How's that working out for you? Squark?

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## gumbyk (Sep 13, 2021)

For those who say that the fatality rate isn't that bad. Lets compare it with other vaccinations:
Measles - 1-2 per 1,000 (0.1-0.2%)
Mumps 1.6-1.8 per 10,000 (0.016-0.018%)
Polio 2-5% for children, 15-30% for adults
Varicella (Chicken pox) 1-6 per 100,000 (0.001-0.006%)

Covid is around 1.6-1.9%.


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## at6 (Sep 13, 2021)

nuuumannn said:


> So, we should just not vaccinate? Is that what you are saying? Better to let people get the disease than to attempt to prevent them from getting it? Is this how modern medicine works? Let people get sick now, rather than attempting to do something about it?
> 
> See, this is what annoys me about all these folk who go on about the COVID death rate as not being a thing compared to other illnesses. So what if fewer people have died from it than influenza or such like? Should we just accept that losses are inevitable and just do nothing?
> 
> ...


Having a hard time catching them.

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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 13, 2021)

nuuumannn said:


> So what if fewer people have died from it than influenza or such like?


It seems about 4.5 million people have died worldwide from COVID-19 since the pandemic started. We are now going into our 2nd year.

Compare it to influenza or the infamous Spanish Flu. 20 million in 2 years - but think about this.

Compare the medical field today to what was being done 100 years ago! Enough said!

AND/ BUT

The Spanish Flu outbreak was censored by the US/ GB and Germany because of WW1. Ask yourself how many people died because of this?






Philadelphia parade exposes thousands to Spanish flu


On September 28, 1918, a Liberty Loan parade in Philadelphia prompts a huge outbreak of Spanish flu in the city. By the time the pandemic ended, an estimated 20




www.history.com





Food for thought...

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## at6 (Sep 14, 2021)

Had to look up Squark. Sorry but I like grown girls and ice cream. And I don't hang around Liquor Stores.

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## ThomasP (Sep 14, 2021)

Hey Greg Boeser,

See my post#407 upthread. The numbers there were current as of 7 September 2021. The number of deaths had increased from 3 in April (which would only be ~1 month after they began administering the J&J) to 27 as of 7 September (after ~14,300,000 vaccinations). All the deaths were due to TTS in the recipients of the J&J vaccine. There have been no known deaths due to the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines yet. The CDC is the source of the data and is referenced from VAERS.

"COVID-19 Vaccination"


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## gumbyk (Sep 14, 2021)

ThomasP said:


> Hey Greg Boeser,
> 
> See my post#407 upthread. The numbers there were current as of 7 September 2021. The number of deaths had increased from 3 in April (which would only be ~1 month after they began administering the J&J) to 27 as of 7 September (after ~14,300,000 vaccinations). All the deaths were due to TTS in the recipients of the J&J vaccine. There have been no known deaths due to the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines yet.


We've had one case of myocarditis that's been attributed to the Pfizer vaccine down here in New Zealand (after about 3 million doses). All told, the number of vaccine deaths is lower than was estimated.


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## nuuumannn (Sep 14, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> t seems about 4.5 million people have died worldwide from COVID-19 since the pandemic started. We are now going into our 2nd year.
> 
> Compare it to influenza or the infamous Spanish Flu. 20 million in 2 years - but think about this.
> 
> ...



Yup, I got it, Joe, but I suspect you misunderstand my point in that I'm not making light of the death rate, merely demonstrating that it is pointless of naysayers to use the death rate as a reason why COVID isn't so serious as contracting other diseases since more people have died from those, and that we _must_ take COVID seriously and stem the _infection_ rate as quickly as possible. 

The question I posed was directed toward one particular individual.

An interesting fact about the Spanish flu pandemic, it was largely down to New Zealand that spread the disease through countries like India, South Africa, and island nations in the Pacific, as troopships returning to New Zealand stopped in these locations. The tale of the spread of the pandemic through the Pacific is terrible since whole tribes and languages were wiped out because of it. American Samoa was a distinct exception as the American governor was warned by his US-based counterparts and undertook a lockdown, with quarantine stations and nurses sent round the island, as well as the drastic step of refusing entry of New Zealand and foreign shipping from docking. He tried warning Western Samoa's governor, who was a New Zealander, but he didn't listen and the death toll there was very high.

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## at6 (Sep 14, 2021)

Locally we've had at least 14 dead in one week. I've been vaccinated[by choice] and still practice all of the protocols of before. CCP style mandates go against everything that I stand for. A woman go to a clinic and murder her unborn child under the "My Body My Choice" philosophy but some pickle butt can tell me that the same doesn't apply to my decision? They can all eat feces, die, and go to hell. I'm not being political or anti-vaxxer, but I am anti-dictatorial by nature. Born free and I will die free.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 14, 2021)

Lets keep politics out of this as much as possible please…

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## Marcel (Sep 14, 2021)

You should be free to choose if you take a vaccine in my opinion. But I think you will have to accept the consequences of that decision as well as in that you are not allowed in certain events etc. In that respect it’s the same as smoking. You can smoke but in certain areas that’s not allowed. 

P.s. you is meant here in a general sense of course.

but as Chris says. Let’s keep away from politics.

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## FLYBOYJ (Sep 14, 2021)

nuuumannn said:


> but I suspect you misunderstand my point in that I'm not making light of the death rate, merely demonstrating that it is pointless of naysayers to use the death rate as a reason why COVID isn't so serious as contracting other diseases since more people have died from those, and that we _must_ take COVID seriously and stem the _infection_ rate as quickly as possible.


No I got it - just putting things into perspective when compared to the other pandemic

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## SaparotRob (Sep 14, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I know a guy who is a firm believer in all the conspiracies. He is a die hard Qer, and believes everything that pig farmer in the Philippines spews to his flock.
> 
> Chemtrails
> Democrats drink the blood of babies
> ...


I have a similar acquaintance.


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## SaparotRob (Sep 14, 2021)

nuuumannn said:


> Yup, I got it, Joe, but I suspect you misunderstand my point in that I'm not making light of the death rate, merely demonstrating that it is pointless of naysayers to use the death rate as a reason why COVID isn't so serious as contracting other diseases since more people have died from those, and that we _must_ take COVID seriously and stem the _infection_ rate as quickly as possible.
> 
> The question I posed was directed toward one particular individual.
> 
> An interesting fact about the Spanish flu pandemic, it was largely down to New Zealand that spread the disease through countries like India, South Africa, and island nations in the Pacific, as troopships returning to New Zealand stopped in these locations. The tale of the spread of the pandemic through the Pacific is terrible since whole tribes and languages were wiped out because of it. American Samoa was a distinct exception as the American governor was warned by his US-based counterparts and undertook a lockdown, with quarantine stations and nurses sent round the island, as well as the drastic step of refusing entry of New Zealand and foreign shipping from docking. He tried warning Western Samoa's governor, who was a New Zealander, but he didn't listen and the death toll there was very high.


RE: Samoa. Incredible. What is past is prologue.

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## The Basket (Sep 14, 2021)

I will have to get back in some form of exercise regime again.

I feel like a typical American after the all you can eat buffet.

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## N4521U (Sep 14, 2021)

I feel the basic problem in the beginning was naming this after a BEER!!!! Corona???????
Perhaps if it was given a proper name no one could pronounce it would have been taken more seriously.
The number 19 didn't help either made it sound like a symphony movement.

150,000 new cases on a day and all I see is posts on FB of people traveling all over the country.
Parties and gatherings. To me it just does not make a pinheads amount of good sense!

My wifes brother is in Melbourne, we are near Sydney, 900+/- km's.
We haven't seen him in two years. We have a traveling radius of 5km's.
We still have 1.500 +/- new cases a day in New South Wales.
It's not a Gov't thing, it's the f'n idiots who keep partying and brawling and demonstrating that "the Gpv't isn't gonna tell ME what to do!!!!!! I don't have to get vaccinated! It's m life"!
It's Not your bloody life, it's MINE you are infecting, it's Your family you are infecting.
I will not Pray for the anti-vaxers I will pray for their innocent family members, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and friends around them! How many Anti-Vaxers have died thinking "it will never be me, I'm too f'n tough!" What a load of Shit!

My wife teaches, hasn't been inna classroom for 11+ weeks. She's dealing with parents who "can't cope" with teaching at home and want the schools open, they help spread this thing. Then they blast my wife who is on the computer classroom during the week. It's the headache switch, they put it on the teachers who can't tell them to get their shit together. Then Annie falls apart because she has to deal with someone telling Her what She has to do in the virtual classroom.

GET VACCINATED you bunch morons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There!

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 14, 2021)

N4521U said:


> I feel the basic problem in the beginning was naming this after a BEER!!!! Corona???????
> Perhaps if it was given a proper name no one could pronounce it would have been taken more seriously.
> The number 19 didn't help either made it sound like a symphony movement.
> 
> ...



_”Enyart, a provocateur who gleefully mocked the deaths of AIDS victims, had encouraged his listeners not to get any of the three available COVID-19 vaccines because he claimed they had been tested on "cells of aborted babies." (Though coronavirus vaccines do not contain fetal cells, Johnson & Johnson used a historic fetal cell line to produce and manufacture its vaccine; Pfizer and Moderna used a fetal cell line in a very early phase to confirm efficacy prior to production.) He also successfully sued the state of Colorado over COVID-related restrictions on church attendance.

Enyart is at least the fifth anti-vaccine talk show host to die from complications of COVID-19 in recent weeks.


Last month, four conservative radio talk show hosts who had promoted anti-vaccine and anti-mask views succumbed to the virus:

• Marc Bernier, a longtime Daytona Beach, Fla., talk show host who once called himself "Mr. Anti-Vax,” died after he was hospitalized for complications of COVID-19. He was 65. In July, in what would be his final tweet, Bernier compared the U.S. government push to get people vaccinated to Nazis.

• Phil Valentine, a syndicated Nashville conservative talk show host who recorded a parody song, “Vaxman,” mocking the vaccine, died following a monthlong battle with COVID-19. He was 61.

While Valentine was in the hospital, his familyreleased a statement saying he “regrets not being more vehemently ‘Pro-Vaccine’ and looks forward to being able to more vigorously advocate that position as soon as he is back on the air, which we all hope will be soon. PLEASE GO GET VACCINATED!”

• Jimmy DeYoung, a nationally syndicated Chattanooga, Tenn.-based Christian preacher who said world governments were using vaccines to control people, died in mid-August after contracting COVID-19 earlier in the month. He was 81.

On his "Prophecy Today" radio show, DeYoung promoted the baseless conspiracy theory that the Pfizer vaccine would make women sterile and directed his listeners to misinformation about COVID-19 on Facebook.

• Dick Farrel, a South Florida talk show host who called the U.S. government's coronavirus mitigation efforts a “scam-demic,” died from complications of COVID-19 in early August. He was 65.

According to friends, Farrel's views on vaccines changed after he contracted the virus. "RIP Dick Farrel," his close friend Amy Leigh Hair wrote in a Facebook post. "He is the reason I took the shot. He texted me and told me to 'Get it!' He told me this virus is no joke and he said, 'I wish I had gotten it!'"

According to Johns Hopkins University, there have been more than 41 million coronavirus cases in the United States since the pandemic began. More than 662,000 Americans have died.

And the overwhelming majority of recent cases, hospitalizations and deaths have been among unvaccinated people.”_









Another radio host who urged listeners to boycott COVID-19 vaccines dies from COVID-19


Bob Enyart is at least the fifth anti-vaccine talk show host to die from complications of COVID-19 in recent weeks.




www.yahoo.com

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## SaparotRob (Sep 14, 2021)

Kharma.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 14, 2021)

He almost died of COVID. Now Ky. airline pilot spreads the word on vaccine.


Linda Blackford: Airline pilot Jack White never thought he’d get sick with COVID. Now out of the hospital, he’s telling everyone he knows to get the vaccine.




www.yahoo.com

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 14, 2021)

And this is why people need to stop listening to and spreading misinformation, and stop being selfish and thinking only about themselves…









Woman had life-saving surgery pushed back because Tennessee's hospitals are overwhelmed with COVID-19 patients


"I'm still so very angry that people who put their feelings before others' well-being get to be first in the hospitals," the woman wrote in a Washington Post column.




www.yahoo.com

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## buffnut453 (Sep 14, 2021)

When this whole thing started, I said to my work colleagues that I hoped we'd all be protected from the arrogant and the ignorant. That statement still holds true 18 months into this "fun". And, despite all evidence to the contrary, the arrogant and the ignorant keep spouting their nonsense. 

It's the visceral reactions that I don't get...the whole "I won't let the government tell me what to do." For pity's sake, the government tell you to wear a seatbelt, obey posted speed limits etc. and yet I don't see people jumping up and down saying we should scrap the rules of the road. Imagine how much fun flying would be if pilots suddenly decided they were no longer going to listen to ATC because they didn't want to obey orders from a government (FAA in the case of the US) official? 

For pity's sake, this isn't a conspiracy. Governments are not using the vaccine to suppress the people. They're actually trying to get our world back to a more normal state of affairs. And yet the anti-vax mob are still shouting from the rooftops. Oh how I wish that natural selection would kick in hard for all of them. I'm sick of their whining.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 14, 2021)

Keep selfishly thinking it is about your “Freedumz”…









Man dies after 43 hospitals turned him away in COVID surge, family says


Ray DeMonia died in a Mississippi hospital three days before his birthday — about 200 miles away from home.




www.yahoo.com

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## nuuumannn (Sep 14, 2021)

SaparotRob said:


> RE: Samoa. Incredible. What is past is prologue.



Some background articles. This should be compulsory reading.









How American Samoa Kept a Pandemic at Bay | James Stout


A story of quarantine.




www.laphamsquarterly.org













How American Samoa Avoided the Spanish Flu


How quick thinking by a U.S. official saved thousands of lives from disease in an American territory—despite its non-American counterpart being decimated.




tedium.co

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## SaparotRob (Sep 14, 2021)

Thanks for post. Very good read.


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## Vincenzo (Sep 20, 2021)

Italy report, 20th September, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,638,516 +29,311, deaths 130,354 +399, recovered 4,395,648, +42,302, active cases 112,514, -13,390, tests 59,091,430, +692,711, people tested 33,686,794, +385,925, vaccines administered 82,601,291*, +1,583,642, people full vaccinated 41,131,241, +1,124,514.
fatality rate 2.8% (=)
mortality rate 2,161 per million (+6)
positive rate 13.8% (=)
vaccines on population 1,369,453 per million (+26,255)
people full vaccinated 681,918 per million (+18,644)
test rate this week 11,485 per million (-163)
positive rate this week 7.6% (-0.9)
new case rate this week 486 per million (-85)
new vaccines this week 26,255 per million (-833)
people full vaccinated this week 18,643 per million (-493)

* it's started the 3rd shot campaign for that need, around 3 millions, 5,583 shot did

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## Vincenzo (Sep 27, 2021)

Italy report, 27th September, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,662,087 +23,571, deaths 130,742 +388, recovered 4,430,265, +34,617, active cases 101,080, -11,434, tests 59,787,712, +696,282, people tested 34,067,918, +381,124, vaccines administered 84,158,581*, +1,557,290, people full vaccinated 42,092,758, +961,517.
fatality rate 2.8% (=)
mortality rate 2,168 per million (+7)
positive rate 13.7% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 1,395,271 per million (+25,818)
people full vaccinated 697,859 per million (+15,941)
test rate this week 11,555 per million (+59)
positive rate this week 6.2% (-1.4)
new case rate this week 391 per million (-95)
new vaccines this week 25,818 per million (-437)
people full vaccinated this week 15,941 per million (-2,702)

* it's started the 3rd shot campaign for that need, around 3 millions, 52,130 shot did

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## Greg Boeser (Oct 1, 2021)

Minnesota weekly update 30 September
New cases: 16,774 (cumulative 711,094)
New hospitalizations: 687 (cumulative 38,031)
Newly reported deaths: 104 (cumulative 8153)
Vaccination rate (fully vaccinated): 58.1% overall, 68.7% among eligible individuals (12+)

Vaccine breakthrough cases as of Monday, 27 Sep 2021
Total cases: 28,047
Total hospitalized: 1,495
Total Fatal cases: 160


> A vaccine breakthrough infection is detection of SARS CoV-2 in a Minnesota patient sample that was collected 14 or more days after they have completed all recommended doses of a COVID-19 vaccine. These cases have not had a previous positive COVID-19 result. https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/stats/vbt.html


All data from MN Department of Health

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## N4521U (Oct 1, 2021)

So how is all this travel and mixing at sporting events and disregard for Covid working out for you America?

We have states that had No hospitalizations, until thousands showed up to protest Lockdowns and restrictions.
Now in a week, four wards are FULL, hospitals are having trouble coping. Along with new deaths and still people piss and moan.

Our good friend just had funeral services for her 80 year old father, only two years my senior. In a retirement home, had both shots, a contract worker who was positive worked ONE F'n day. Less than a week later Kevin passed away........ So kiss my tiny A$$ all you who care less and spread it around.


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## Greg Boeser (Oct 1, 2021)

While it appears that the Delta wave is subsiding nationwide, Minnesota is still on the upswing. So far, four of my siblings have gotten Covid, and everyone in their households as well. All have recovered. Only one severe case, resulting in pneumonia and a blood clot in the lung (recovered). Delta seems not concerned with vaccine status, one vaxxed sibling infected another vaxxed sibling's entire household.


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## Vincenzo (Oct 4, 2021)

Italy report, 4th October, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,683,646 +21,559, deaths 131,068 +326, recovered 4,460,482, +30,217, active cases 92,096, -8,984, tests 60,510,390, +722,678, people tested 34,528,037, +460,119, vaccines administered 85,355,103*, +1,196,522, people full vaccinated 42,816,027, +723,269.
fatality rate 2.8% (=)
mortality rate 2,173 per million (+5)
positive rate 13.6% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 1,415,109 per million (+19,838)
people full vaccinated 709,850 per million (+11,991)
test rate this week 11,981 per million (+426)
positive rate this week 4.7% (-1.5)
new case rate this week 357 per million (-34)
new vaccines this week 19,837 per million (-5,981)
people full vaccinated this week 11,991 per million (-3,950)

* it's started the 3rd shot campaign for that need, around 3 millions, 149,582 shot did

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## ThomasP (Oct 4, 2021)

Minnesota Update 4 October 2021

In general Minnesota is doing pretty well. We are currently in the middle of a spike in cases that started in late-August. We have been averaging ~2,000 new case per day over the last few weeks, but we appear to have leveled out. It may be too early to say though.

The new case, hospitalization, and death demographic trend continues:

(temporary edit to check data)

Slightly more than 1% of fully vaccinated people are catching COVID-19. There have been 32,796 breakthrough* cases since the start of the vaccination program in late-December 2020, out of 3,178,401 fully vaccinated people. The breakthrough cases among the fully vaccinated continue to be far less likely to require hospitalization and/or die, than cases among the unvaccinated.

*A breakthrough case is when the case presents after at least 14 days have passed since a person completed their COVID-19 vaccination series.


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## Greg Boeser (Oct 4, 2021)

Minnesota vaccine status as of Monday, 4 October
58.1% of all residents fully vaccinated, additionally 1.3% have received their first dose.
68.8% of all eligible residents (age 12+) fully vaccinated, 3.6% partially vaccinated.
New breakthrough cases since last week: 4749
New hospitalizations among breakthrough cases: 195
New deaths among breakthrough cases: 25

Total new cases since previous week (as of 30 Sep 2021)
New cases: 16,774 (cumulative 711,094)
New hospitalizations: 687 (cumulative 38,031)
Newly reported deaths: 104 (cumulative 8153)

28% of new cases last week were breakthrough cases.
28% of new hospitalizations were breakthrough cases.
24% of new deaths were breakthrough cases.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 4, 2021)

Does not matter how the numbers are spun, or what narrative is being pushed. No vaccine is 100%. No one said there would not be any breakthrough cases. Data, science, and facts, however, show that those who are vaccinated are less likely to have severe covid or die.

There is one group of people in this country (and I assume worldwide as well), whose self righteous selfishness are keeping us in this pandemic. *It’s not about the vaccine though (I firmly believe in the choice to or not to), its more about their behavior during the pandemic.* I’m a firm believer in Karma, and everything comes back around. I just hope for them, it does not end badly.


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## ThomasP (Oct 4, 2021)

Hey Greg Boeser,

Please, would you provide the link for the above data on % of new cases being breakthrough cases. I went over the Minnesota Department of Health website and I could not find the data you listed, ie:

"28% of new cases last week were breakthrough cases.
28% of new hospitalizations were breakthrough cases.
24% of new deaths were breakthrough cases."

Not saying it is wrong, just that I could not find it on the MDH website.


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## Greg Boeser (Oct 4, 2021)

I compared the change in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths overall from the 23 Sep 2021 weekly report to the 30 Sep 2021 weekly report, and the change in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths from the vaccine breakthrough report of 27 Sep 2021 and 4 Oct 2021. It's not a perfect overlap, but compares the most recent reported data. From these comparisons one can see that vaccinated people are about 3.5 times less likely to contract covid, or be hospitalized, than an unvaccinated person, and 4 times less likely to die from it. If I'm doing my math right.
Roughly 60% of the population is fully vaccinated, 40% is less than fully vaccinated.


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## ThomasP (Oct 5, 2021)

Thanks for the explanation.


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## CATCH 22 (Oct 5, 2021)

An interesting announcement from the last week here in Ontario (Canada):

_Ontario is issuing a "__preferential recommendation__" of the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, over the Moderna vaccine, for adults between the ages of 18 and 24.
This is due to an increase in the "very rare" heart condition pericarditis/myocarditis, following administration of the Moderna vaccine, particularly among males in that age group.
"The majority of reported cases have been mild with individuals recovering quickly, normally with anti-inflammatory medication," the statement from Dr. Kieran Moore, Ontario's chief medical officer of health, reads. "Symptoms have typically been reported to start within one week after vaccination, more commonly after the second dose."
"We have to have accountability to the public and I think the public deserves to know the facts on the risks that we've identified in Ontario," Dr. Moore said._

Did you guys see anything similar in other regions, countries, continents?
BTW I already got Moderna X 2, but I'm far beyond 24.

P.S. An Washington Post article with some questions and answers about Pfizer and Moderna: _In secret vaccine contracts with governments, Pfizer took hard line in push for profit._


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 5, 2021)

CATCH 22 said:


> An interesting announcement from the last week here in Ontario (Canada):
> 
> _Ontario is issuing a "__preferential recommendation__" of the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, over the Moderna vaccine, for adults between the ages of 18 and 24.
> This is due to an increase in the "very rare" heart condition pericarditis/myocarditis, following administration of the Moderna vaccine, particularly among males in that age group.
> ...



I think they have reported this in several countries. If I recall correctly though it was still very rare. I might be mistaken there.


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## at6 (Oct 5, 2021)

14 more people died here over the weekend. While I do not support imposed mandates as a matter of personal belief, I do support the idea that people who care should take the vaccine. Where would we be today if no one was vaccinated for Polio?

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 5, 2021)

Like I said, its not just about the vaccine. I agree with the right to choose. However, the behavior of so many people is pathetic. I’ve been in a hotel the last week and half out in California for work. The hotel has a mask policy. You must wear a mask in all public areas to help protect the staff and other guests. Most people comply. Do we enjoy wearing the masks? Nope, not one bit, but we are adults and act like adults. Not some. One guy came in the hotel and ignored the signs. The receptionist asked him to put on a mask, and offered him one if he did not have one. He refused, and began to aggressively berate and yell at the young woman behind the counter. He was acting like a spoiled teenager who did not get what they want. The manager got involved and told him to comply or leave. He finally put on his mask, checked in and went to elevator spewing 4 letter words.

Seriously, this is the selfish behavior I am referring to. These idiots that “demand their freedumz” think of no one but themselves. What about the woman behind the desk who is working to feed her family? What if she has an immunocprimised kid or parent at home? These idiots refusing to act like adults, are why we are stuck in this.

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## Crimea_River (Oct 5, 2021)

Sadly, we have a very vocal segment like that where I live and they hold our provincial government by the short and curlies.

Here's a good article I hope the unvaccinated would read: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/icu-doctor-letter-to-patient-1.6171187

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## vikingBerserker (Oct 5, 2021)

I was talking to my mom the other night and she said people were protesting against the polio vaccine when she was a kid


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## at6 (Oct 5, 2021)

While I am fully vaccinated, I still wear a mask every time that I enter an indoor setting and maintain a social distance policy. It works not only for Covid but the practice works against the Influenza virus as well. I also got my annual Flu shot a week ago.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 5, 2021)

vikingBerserker said:


> I was talking to my mom the other night and she said people were protesting against the polio vaccine when she was a kid



Why am I not surprised…


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## Dash119 (Oct 5, 2021)

Well I guess people got over it because I don't recall any protests in the last few decades...

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## Gnomey (Oct 6, 2021)

The vaccine doesn’t prevent the spread or getting it. It reduces the severity and reduces the spread. Doesn’t mean you won’t get it or spread it though. 









Doctor Examines Lung X-Rays of Vaccinated and Unvaccinated COVID-19 Patients


A doctor examining side-by-side x-rays of COVID-19-positive lungs in vaccinated and unvaccinated patients said the images show the impact vaccines can make in preventing severe illness.




www.nbcsandiego.com





This is the best example of what the vaccine does, bear in mind healthy lung is the black bits…

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## Dash119 (Oct 6, 2021)

Gnomey said:


> The vaccine doesn’t prevent the spread or getting it. It reduces the severity and reduces the spread. Doesn’t mean you won’t get it or spread it though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 Gnomey
,

In addition to reducing the severity and reducing the spread, does the vaccine, or the vaccinated individual, reduce the likelihood of a mutation?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 6, 2021)

Dash119 said:


> Gnomey
> ,
> 
> In addition to reducing the severity and reducing the spread, does the vaccine, or the vaccinated individual, reduce the likelihood of a mutation?



I’m not a doctor like our friend here, but the way I understand it anyone who catches the virus and spreads it can contribute to a mutation. Vaccinated or un-vaccinated. The virus reacts and mutates to a persons immune response.

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## ThomasP (Oct 7, 2021)

re "In addition to reducing the severity and reducing the spread, does the vaccine, or the vaccinated individual, reduce the likelihood of a mutation?"

Yes. Each time a virus reproduces there is a minute chance of mutation.

Therefor anything that reduces the number of times the virus reproduces will also reduce the overall probability of a mutation* occurring. The vaccines primarily allow the immune system to react more quickly (on average) to the virus, reducing (on average) the length of time the virus survives in the host, and hence reduces (on average) the number of times the virus reproduces.

The opposite is also true, ie if a person is not vaccinated, the virus will survive longer (on average) in the host, and reproduce (on average) a greater number of times - thereby increasing the chance of a mutation*.

The chance of any one virus reproduction resulting in a mutation* is extremely small - with the % chance being contingent on many factors. But since it is estimated that the average infected person has somewhere around 10^10 virions**, which requires ~2^33 reproductions, even if the chance of mutation is only 1 in 2.6 x 10^17, with billions of people becoming infected the probability of mutation* adds up very quickly to unity. So far there have been more than 12 identifiable mutations*, or about 1 for every 30,000,000 people infected.

* mutation in this case is used for identified variants and/or mutations.
**virion is the term used to denote 1 complete physical virus structure, in the same way as cell is used to denote 1 complete physical bacterium structure.


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## Marcel (Oct 7, 2021)

Gnomey said:


> The vaccine doesn’t prevent the spread or getting it. It reduces the severity and reduces the spread. Doesn’t mean you won’t get it or spread it though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hugh, is there anything know about the occurrence of ADE in vaccinated people apart from the results in the clinical tests?


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## at6 (Oct 7, 2021)

The reduction in reproduction would have to be primarily in fully vaccinated people. It would seem logical that those with only one dose would contribute to the mutation process even more than totally un-vaccinated people. Look at how Tuberculosis mutated because of people not completing the treatment regimen.


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 7, 2021)

Dash119 said:


> Well I guess people got over it because I don't recall any protests in the last few decades...



Or they died from it.

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## at6 (Oct 7, 2021)

Dash119 said:


> Well I guess people got over it because I don't recall any protests in the last few decades...





vikingBerserker said:


> Or they died from it.


It's rather hard to protest when you're confined to an Iron Lung.

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## Gnomey (Oct 7, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Hugh, is there anything know about the occurrence of ADE in vaccinated people apart from the results in the clinical tests?


Nothing I’ve seen but then not read the papers that widely.



Dash119 said:


> Gnomey
> ,
> 
> In addition to reducing the severity and reducing the spread, does the vaccine, or the vaccinated individual, reduce the likelihood of a mutation?


As described by others mutations always happen with replication anything that reduces that will reduce mutations but they still will always occur.


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## ThomasP (Oct 7, 2021)

Hey Marcel,

The Minnesota Department of Health (MDH), the University of Minnesota Medical system, and the Mayo Clinic organization, all say that as of the end of September there has been no evidence of ADE (Antibody-Dependent Enhancement) in the vaccinated population. The MDH, UofM, and Mayo would be aware of any hard evidence of ADE.


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## Vincenzo (Oct 11, 2021)

Italy report, 11th October, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,701,832 +18,186, deaths 131,335 +267, recovered 4,486,391, +25,909, active cases 84,106, -7,990, tests 61,203,810, +693,420, people tested 34,815,383, +287,346, vaccines administered 86,407,784*, +1,052,681, people full vaccinated 43,333,605, +517,578.
fatality rate 2.8% (=)
mortality rate 2,177 per million (+4)
positive rate 13.5% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 1,432,561 per million (+17,452)
people full vaccinated 718,431 per million (+8,581)
test rate this week 11,496 per million (-485)
positive rate this week 6.3% (+1.6)
new case rate this week 302 per million (-55)
new vaccines this week 17,452 per million (-2,385)
people full vaccinated this week 8,581 per million (-3,410)

* it's started the 3rd shot campaign for that need, now also the over 60 are included in the risk category, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but over 10 millions , 337,436 shot did

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## ThomasP (Oct 11, 2021)

Abbreviated Minnesota Report

~70% of eligible Minnesotans (age 16+) have been fully vaccinated, with another ~4% partially vaccinated. ~92% of the most vulnerable population (age 65+) are fully vaccinated, with another 2% partially vaccinated. Unfortunately, the rate of vaccination has dropped significantly.

Minnesota has been averaging ~2,000 new COVID-19 cases each day for the last few weeks. This is Minnesota's highest new case rate since mid-December 2020, which is the period of Minnesota's highest new case rate so far. The current high case rate is due to 2 primary factors:

The majority of people (regardless of whether they are vaccinated or not) are no longer observing the social distancing and mask wearing prevention measures. Although there are exceptions (sometimes significant) for the most part only the long term care facilities, medical centers, and hospitals are still taking the prevention measures seriously.
The Delta variant appears to be significantly more transmissible than the previous significant variants, possibly as much as 4x as transmissible.

However, compared to December 2020, the hospitalization rate is averaging only ~1/15 (15 vs 230 per day) and the fatality rate is only ~1/4 (14 vs 57 per day). The reduced hospitalization and fatality rates are primarily due to 3 major factors (not necessarily in order of import):

The vaccination program.
Most of the new cases are occurring among the younger (under 65) age group.
The improved treatments developed during the pandemic.

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## Vincenzo (Oct 18, 2021)

Italy report, 18th October, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,719,493 +17,661, deaths 131,585 +250, recovered 4,511,545, +25,154, active cases 76,363, -7,743, tests 61,889,258, +685,448, people tested 35,273,695, +458,312, vaccines administered 87,727,638*, +1,319,854, people full vaccinated 43,943,861, +610,256.
fatality rate 2.8% (=)
mortality rate 2,182 per million (+5)
positive rate 13.4% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 1,454,443 per million (+21,882)
people full vaccinated 728,549 per million (+10,118)
test rate this week 11,364 per million (-132)
positive rate this week 3.9% (-2.4)
new case rate this week 293 per million (-9)
new vaccines this week 21,882 per million (+4,430)
people full vaccinated this week 10,117 per million (+1,536)

* it's started the 3rd shot campaign for that need, now also the over 60 are included in the risk category, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably over 18 millions , 632,454 shot did

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## Vincenzo (Oct 25, 2021)

Italy report, 25th October, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,743,720 +24,227, deaths 131,856 +271, recovered 4,537,210, +25,665, active cases 74,016, -2,347, tests 62,589,472, +700,214, people tested 35,709,838, +436,143, vaccines administered 88,890,546*, +1,162,908, people full vaccinated 44,432,262, +488,401.
fatality rate 2.8% (=)
mortality rate 2,186 per million (+4)
positive rate 13.3% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 1,473,723 per million (+19,280)
people full vaccinated 736,646 per million (+8,097)
test rate this week 11,609 per million (+245)
positive rate this week 5.6% (+1.7)
new case rate this week 402 per million (+109)
new vaccines this week 19,280 per million (-2,602)
people full vaccinated this week 8,097 per million (-2,020)

* it's started the 3rd shot campaign for that need, now also the over 60 are included in the risk category, they add all the janssen (J&J) vaccinated**, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably over 18 millions , 1,093,947 shot did (+461493)

** for these is a 2nd shot

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## Vincenzo (Nov 2, 2021)

Italy report, 1st November, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,774,783 +31,063, deaths 132,120 +264, recovered 4,558,941, +21,731, active cases 83,722, +9,706, tests 63,316,846, +727,374, people tested 36,105,689, +395,851, vaccines administered 89,904,963*, +1,014,417, people "full" vaccinated 44,799,366, +367,104.
fatality rate 2.8% (=)
mortality rate 2,190 per million (+4)
positive rate 13.2% (-0.1)
vaccines on population 1,490,541 per million (+16,818)
people "full" vaccinated 742,732 per million (+6,086)
test rate this week 12,059 per million (+450)
positive rate this week 7.8% (+2.2)
new case rate this week 515 per million (+113)
new vaccines this week 16,818 per million (-2,462)
people "full" vaccinated this week 6,086 per million (-2,011)

* it's started the 3rd shot campaign for that need, now also the over 60 are included in the risk category, they add all the janssen (J&J) vaccinated**, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably over 18 millions , 1,608,022 shot did (+514,075)

** for these is a 2nd shot

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## Vincenzo (Nov 8, 2021)

Italy report, 8th November, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,812,594 +37,811, deaths 132,423 +303, recovered 4,581,396, +22,455, active cases 98,775, +15,053, tests 64,068,951, +752,105, people tested 36,489,224, +383,535, vaccines administered 91,020,663*, +1,115,700, people "full" vaccinated 45,171,042, +371,676.
fatality rate 2.8% (=)
mortality rate 2,195 per million (+5)
positive rate 13.2% (=)
vaccines on population 1,509,038 per million (+18,497)
people "full" vaccinated 748,894 per million (+6,162)
test rate this week 12,469 per million (+410)
positive rate this week 9.9% (+2.1)
new case rate this week 627 per million (+112)
new vaccines this week 18,497 per million (+1,679)
people "full" vaccinated this week 6,162 per million (+76)

* it's started the 3rd shot campaign for that need, now also the over 60 are included in the risk category, they add all the janssen (J&J) vaccinated**, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably over 18 millions , 2,238,107 shot did (+630,085)

** for these is a 2nd shot

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## ThomasP (Nov 9, 2021)

General Minnesota Report 8 November 2021

Minnesota seems to be doing better than many states in the availability and processing of tests - our total number of tests processed to date is 13,913,703, for a population of ~5,300,000.

However, we are not doing so well in infection rates. We are still averaging ~2000 new cases per day - up from an average of ~100/day back in June 2021.

Minnesota has had 810,602 confirmed cases and 8862 deaths attributed to COVID-19, which gives us a fatality rate of ~1.1% - placing Minnesota at the low end of the range for the US which has a 1.6% fatality rate as a whole. Minnesota has good health care and has managed to avoid having the health care system become overwhelmed.

Some fatality rate numbers for comparison are:

Peru 9.1%
Mexico 7.6%
South Africa 3.1%
Russia 2.8%
Italy 2.8%
Chile 2.2%
Iran 2.1%
Germany 2.0%
Belgium 1.8%
Canada 1.7%
France 1.6%
United States 1.6%
United Kingdom 1.5%
Sweden 1.3%
Japan 1.1%
Australia 1.0%
Cuba 0.9%
Netherlands 0.8%
Denmark 0.7%
Israel 0.6%
Norway 0.4%
New Zealand 0.4%
Iceland 0.2%
Singapore 0.2%

The US still has the largest official number of deaths at 754,429 followed by Brazil at 609,447. However, the numbers for 3 of the largest population countries - Brazil, India, and China - are currently considered unreliable.

*fatality rate is the number of deaths attributed to COVID-19 per confirmed COVID-19 cases, in %.


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## ARTESH (Nov 9, 2021)

Beside Brazil, India and China, Iran's "2.1%" is unbelievable and unacceptable by me. It should be at least around 50% , or even higher. Still there is no official records of deaths by Corona and no one is allowed to point out the right number, several people tried, but you can guess what happened to them.

The "Akhonds" are masters of lie and illusion.


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## Vincenzo (Nov 15, 2021)

Italy report, 15th November, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,865,260 +52,666, deaths 132,819 +396, recovered 4,611,566, +30,170, active cases 120,875, +22,100, tests 64,929,977, +861,026, people tested 36,911,565, +422,341, vaccines administered 92,266,297*, +1,245,634, people "full" vaccinated 45,466,253, +295,211.
fatality rate 2.7% (-0.1)
mortality rate 2,202 per million (+7)
positive rate 13.2% (=)
vaccines on population 1,529,690 per million (+20,652)
people "full" vaccinated 753,788 per million (+4,894)
test rate this week 14,275 per million (+1,806)
positive rate this week 12.5% (+2.6)
new case rate this week 873 per million (+246)
new vaccines this week 20,652 per million (+2,155)
people "full" vaccinated this week 4,894 per million (-1,268)

* it's started the 3rd shot campaign for that need, now also the over 60 are included in the risk category, from the 1st december also the over 40 are eligible, they add all the janssen (J&J) vaccinated**, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably over 18 millions , 3,071,045 shot did (+832,938)

** for these is a 2nd shot


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## at6 (Nov 16, 2021)

people still getting it and dying here. A fully vaccinated Correctional officer was laid to rest yesterday. I'm getting my booster next month.

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## ARTESH (Nov 16, 2021)

at6 said:


> people still getting it and dying here. A fully vaccinated Correctional officer was laid to rest yesterday. I'm getting my booster next month.


Well, they could close all unnecessary jobs and force people, by any means necessary, to stay at home. But if they do this, how could they become more rich? And rule more time over people???

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## Greg Boeser (Nov 16, 2021)

Well, when medical advice is to stay home,and don't come back until you are _really _sick, it causes one to doubt the intentions of the powers that be. Aggressively treated, this disease is easily beatable.


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## Marcel (Nov 16, 2021)

The numbers of new positives a day is sky rocketing here. We’ve never had so many cases on one day. Luckily the numbers in hospital are not growing as much, so vaccines seem to work on average. But still worrying all the same.

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## gumbyk (Nov 16, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> Well, when medical advice is to stay home,and don't come back until you are _really _sick, it causes one to doubt the intentions of the powers that be. Aggressively treated, this disease is easily beatable.


The problem is that there aren't enough hospital beds available.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 16, 2021)

gumbyk said:


> The problem is that there aren't enough hospital beds available.



That can also be easily remedied, but I won’t go their for fear of insulting people with the obvious.

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## CATCH 22 (Nov 17, 2021)

This is something I read today and I"m not sure how to "digest" it:
_1. The vaccine rollout in Gibraltar has been *phenomenally successful*, the territory administering 94,937 COVID jabs so far, including 39,815 second doses, with an additional 14,241 booster jabs - a vaccination rate of *139.5%*.  
2. Gibraltar has cancelled official Christmas celebrations after it saw a spike in COVID cases._
The full article is here.


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## gumbyk (Nov 17, 2021)

CATCH 22 said:


> This is something I read today and I"m not sure how to "digest" it:
> _1. The vaccine rollout in Gibraltar has been *phenomenally successful*, the territory administering 94,937 COVID jabs so far, including 39,815 second doses, with an additional 14,241 booster jabs - a vaccination rate of *139.5%*.
> 2. Gibraltar has cancelled official Christmas celebrations after it saw a spike in COVID cases._
> The full article is here.


Quite likely because transient people (British who are working on the island but are not residents) getting vaccinated. We've got certain regions who have demographics over 100% vaccinated. My maths makes it only 121% vaccinated.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 17, 2021)

Regardless of your thoughts on masks and what not, this pandemic shows how ing people are. Even when there is not a pandemic you should cover your mouth when you cough. Nobody wants your nasty germs. I’m on a flight from Los Angeles to St. Louis right now, and there are some inconsiderate nasty people on this flight. lol

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## Vincenzo (Nov 18, 2021)

CATCH 22 said:


> This is something I read today and I"m not sure how to "digest" it:
> _1. The vaccine rollout in Gibraltar has been *phenomenally successful*, the territory administering 94,937 COVID jabs so far, including 39,815 second doses, with an additional 14,241 booster jabs - a vaccination rate of *139.5%*.
> 2. Gibraltar has cancelled official Christmas celebrations after it saw a spike in COVID cases._
> The full article is here.


the number is inflated because spanish that working in Gibraltar are eligible to get the vaccine 
they did the most of vaccination early so the vaccine efficacy is downing

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## Vincenzo (Nov 22, 2021)

Italy report, 22nd November, weekly change, from Monday to Monday
cases 4,932,091 +66,831, deaths 133,247 +428, recovered 4,647,330, +35,764, active cases 151,514, +30,639, tests 65,933,097, +1,003,120, people tested 37,377,595, +466,030, vaccines administered 93,636,767*, +1,370,470, people "full" vaccinated 45,709,349, +243,096.
fatality rate 2.7% (=)
mortality rate 2,209 per million (+7)
positive rate 13.2% (=)
vaccines on population 1,552,411 per million (+22,721)
people "full" vaccinated 757,819 per million (+4,031)
test rate this week 16,631 per million (+2,356)
positive rate this week 14.3% (+1.8)
new case rate this week 1,108 per million (+235)
new vaccines this week 22,721 per million (+2,069)
people "full" vaccinated this week 4,030 per million (-864)

* it's started the 3rd shot campaign for that need, now also the over 40 are included in the risk category, from the 22th november, they have anticipated, they add all the janssen (J&J) vaccinated**, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably over 35 millions , 4,052,339 shot did (+981,294)

** for these is a 2nd shot

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## Graeme (Nov 22, 2021)

Just an observation - sign of the times I guess, but I've noticed recently there is now a COVID component to movie credits...

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## michaelmaltby (Nov 22, 2021)

good catch ...


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## Vincenzo (Nov 24, 2021)

i've booked my booster shot for the 11th December


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## Marcel (Nov 24, 2021)

Marcel said:


> The numbers of new positives a day is sky rocketing here. We’ve never had so many cases on one day. Luckily the numbers in hospital are not growing as much, so vaccines seem to work on average. But still worrying all the same.


I take this back, it's going like crazy here now, hospitals are overflowing, and regular healthcare is being scaled down as the hospitals don't have enough personnel to deal with the situation, especially since quite a number are home with a burnout from the earlier peaks in this pandemic. I was hoping 2021 would be better than 2020, but doesn't seem this way.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 24, 2021)

Marcel said:


> I take this back, it's going like crazy here now, hospitals are overflowing, and regular healthcare is being scaled down as the hospitals don't have enough personnel to deal with the situation, especially since quite a number are home with a burnout from the earlier peaks in this pandemic. I was hoping 2021 would be better than 2020, but doesn't seem this way.



Germany trending the same way. Its getting out of control again.


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## horseUSA (Nov 24, 2021)

I've read that Europe didn't have the delta hit the US/UK did earlier this year and that now delta is taking its sweep through that region.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 24, 2021)

I don’t know, but its nuts right now. The state of Baden Württemberg just made it official today that if you want to go to a bar or club you have to have a negative Covid test. Not sure if that will help the problem, but cases the hospitals are overwhelmed.


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## Vincenzo (Nov 24, 2021)

Last cases here, my town, are all Delta plus


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## Marcel (Nov 25, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I don’t know, but its nuts right now. The state of Baden Württemberg just made it official today that if you want to go to a bar or club you have to have a negative Covid test. Not sure if that will help the problem, but cases the hospitals are overwhelmed.


Here they want to change that to only vaccinated people and those who have recovered from Covid.


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## buffnut453 (Nov 25, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I don’t know, but its nuts right now. The state of Baden Württemberg just made it official today that if you want to go to a bar or club you have to have a negative Covid test. Not sure if that will help the problem, but cases the hospitals are overwhelmed.



Hey Chris, dumb question but can you still go to restaurants with just proof of vaccination or does dining also require a negative test now?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 25, 2021)

buffnut453 said:


> Hey Chris, dumb question but can you still go to restaurants with just proof of vaccination or does dining also require a negative test now?



As of right now yes.

They claim the surge is mostly younger people going to clubs, so that is why they are cracking down on that.

It can change any minute though.


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## buffnut453 (Nov 25, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> As of right now yes.
> 
> They claim the surge is mostly younger people going to clubs, so that is why they are cracking down on that.
> 
> It can change any minute though.



Yeah...I'm keeping my eye on it. I'm due to arrive on Sunday morning. Staying in Sindelfingen.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 26, 2021)

buffnut453 said:


> Yeah...I'm keeping my eye on it. I'm due to arrive on Sunday morning. Staying in Sindelfingen.


Effective 1 December in the state of Baden Württemberg you will be required to have a digital QR code confirming you are vaccinated to go places.


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## Marcel (Nov 26, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Effective 1 December in the state of Baden Württemberg you will be required to have a digital QR code confirming you are vaccinated to go places.


Yeah we're going to get that as well. Will give hell in the social media I presume.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 26, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Yeah we're going to get that as well. Will give hell in the social media I presume.



They won’t give me one. I tried to get a QR code at a pharmacy today, and they said I have to get it in the US since I live there and was vaccinated there.


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## Marcel (Nov 26, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> They won’t give me one. I tried to get a QR code at a pharmacy today, and they said I have to get it in the US since I live there and was vaccinated there.


That's a bummer. Can you not get it digitally? I could just request one with my DigiID after being vaccinated. Only needed my phone. So I did not have to go to the "Powers that be"

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 26, 2021)

Marcel said:


> That's a bummer. Can you not get it digitally? I could just request one with my DigiID after being vaccinated. Only needed my phone. So I did not have to go to the "Powers that be"



Nope, cannot get one.


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## special ed (Nov 26, 2021)

Perhaps someone in the U.S. could scan your vax record card and Email to you.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 26, 2021)

special ed said:


> Perhaps someone in the U.S. could scan your vax record card and Email to you.


No, I have my vax card. You need it to get the QR code. They won’t give me a QR code. Until the 1st the vaccine card is enough. After the first I need the code.


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## Greg Boeser (Nov 26, 2021)

Can you get one at an embassy or consulate?

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## Marcel (Nov 26, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Nope, cannot get one.


That’s crazy. Even we can do that in our little country.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 26, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> Can you get one at an embassy or consulate?



I don’t think so. I don’t think we have them in the US.


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## Vincenzo (Nov 26, 2021)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I don’t think so. I don’t think we have them in the US.


idk as works in Germany or in Baden, but you can try to go to vaccination center and talking with the crew/doctors it's possible they know what you must do


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## ThomasP (Nov 30, 2021)

Minnesota Report for the Week of ??-22 November 2021

Well the s**t has hit the fan, again.

The average new case rate for last week was ~3300/day. This is up from ~2000/day as of 3 weeks ago, and is the highest recorded in Minnesota since November-December of 2020.

Out of the 23,100 new cases, 448 were re-infection cases (ie someone who had tested positive of COVID-19 more than 90 days ago once again tested positive).

We had 924 new hospitalizations last week with 125 newly admitted to ICUs. As of 22 November the current COVID-19 total in hospital was 1109 and the current total in ICU was 324. (The number had increased to 1462 in hospital and 330 in ICU as of 26 November.)

There were 148 deaths last week, but that number is deceptively low as the majority of deaths tend to lag behind hospitalization rates by 2-6 weeks. Fortunately the overall fatality rate of ~1.6% does not appear to be increasing.

~84% of new cases are occurring among the unvaccinated. An unvaccinated person who catches COVID-19 is ~14x more likely to die than if they are vaccinated.

We are beginning to encounter shortages of ICU staff. There have been a significant number of health care workers who have taken leave of absence, quit, or simply refuse to work in the COVID ward anymore. Simple fatigue due to overwork is also coming into play. Due to this shortage, and due to the change in the demographics of those falling ill, Minnesota's Governor has asked for aid from the Federal government. In response, 3x US Air Force medical teams specializing in respiratory trauma have been deployed to Minnesota - 1 team to one of the 3 largest metro area hospitals (HCMC in Minneapolis) and 2 teams to the 2nd largest out-state hospital (St Cloud). Each team is composed of 23 personnel (4 doctors, 14 nurses, 2 respiratory specialists/therapists, and 3 administrators).


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## Marcel (Nov 30, 2021)

ThomasP said:


> We are beginning to encounter shortages of ICU staff. There have been a significant number of health care workers who have taken leave of absence, quit, or simply refuse to work in the COVID ward anymore. Simple fatigue due to overwork is also coming into play.


Yup, the same here. They are warning that they don't have the ICU capacity that we had last year anymore. Then, over 1200 people were in ICU. Now they won't be able to accommodate that number anymore.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 30, 2021)

Marcel said:


> Yup, the same here. They are warning that they don't have the ICU capacity that we had last year anymore. Then, over 1200 people were in ICU. Now they won't be able to accommodate that number anymore.



Lets be honest here. That is the biggest thing the “resistance” refuses to understand or grasp. Hell, I think they simply selfishly do not care. When the ICUs are beyond capacity it effects everyone. If your child is hit by a car for example, they may not get the help they need.

At the same, we are all to blame for not increasing our capacities over the last 2 years


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## Vincenzo (Dec 11, 2021)

Today at 17:47 CET i did 3rd Pfizer shot

I'm sorry for miss the monday update but i get a sickness, drop in blood pressure, saturday 4th, and i was out of service

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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 11, 2021)

Vincenzo said:


> Today at 17:47 CET i did 3rd Pfizer shot
> 
> I'm sorry for miss the monday update but i get a sickness, drop in blood pressure, saturday 4th, and i was out of service


Hope you're feeling better!


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## Vincenzo (Dec 11, 2021)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Hope you're feeling better!


yes, i've just some dizziness because of too many pillows used the past days

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## Vincenzo (Dec 13, 2021)

Italy report, 13th December, changes and weeks numbers not reported i've missed 2 weeks
cases 5,238,221** deaths 134,929, recovered 4,812,535, active cases 290,757, tests 69,269,958, people tested 38,925,453, vaccines administered 102,029,307*, people "full" vaccinated 45,923,964.
fatality rate 2.6%
mortality rate 2,237 per million
positive rate 13.5%
vaccines on population 1,691,551 per million
people "full" vaccinated 761,377 per million



* it's started the 3rd (2nd for the J&J but with a MRNA vaccine) shot campaign ,all the over 18 are eligible, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably around 50 millions , 11,605,340 shot did

** i've reported data from the wrong column, i corrected today 20th


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## ThomasP (Dec 14, 2021)

Minnesota Report for the week of 12/2-12/8 2021 - just some general stuff

Minnesota has had ~949,000 of its residents test positive for COVID-19 since the epidemic began (in addition ~11,400 haves tested positive twice). This indicates that over 18% of the population has had COVID-19.*

We have had a total of ~9,910 deaths attributed to COVID-19, giving a fatality rate of ~1.03%.

Over the last week Minnesota's hospitalization rate has been significantly higher than in the previous few months - approaching the rate during the worst period of December 2020 - with an average of 155 new hospitalizations per day. Overall, ~20% of hospitalizations have resulted in admission to ICUs.

Although we have had a few cases of the Omicron variant in the last 2 weeks, the Delta variant is still accounting for ~98% of new cases.

For those who are fully vaccinated, the 'break-through' infection rate appears to be running at ~0.2%.**

~84% of new cases are still occurring among the unvaccinated (the unvaccinated account for ~27% of Minnesota's population). An unvaccinated person who catches COVID-19 is ~14x more likely on average to die than vaccinated person.*** The hospitalization rates of unvaccinated vs vaccinated appear to be in the same approximate ratios.

*The true number of people who have contracted COVID-19 is unknown due to many cases not having serious symptoms and hence no test being performed. The epidemiologists estimate that the number of cases is probably about 1.8-2x the confirmed test value, the majority of the undetected among the under 50 age group.

**A 'break-through' case occurs when a fully vaccinated person contracts COVID-19 in spite of being vaccinated.

***An unvaccinated person age 65+ is ~17x more likely to die, while someone unvaccinated age 50-65 is ~12.5x more likely to die.

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## Greg Boeser (Dec 14, 2021)

ThomasP said:


> Minnesota Report for the week of 12/2-12/8 2021 - just some general stuff
> 
> Minnesota has had ~949,000 of its residents test positive for COVID-19 since the epidemic began (in addition ~11,400 haves tested positive twice). This indicates that over 18% of the population has had COVID-19.*
> 
> ...


So, if we are at 18% confirmed cases, and the estimated case rate is double that, (16-18%) and over75% of people are vaccinated aren't we nearing herd immunity?


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## Vincenzo (Dec 14, 2021)

Greg Boeser said:


> So, if we are at 18% confirmed cases, and the estimated case rate is double that, (16-18%) and over75% of people are vaccinated aren't we nearing herd immunity?


imho, the herd immunity is not applicable with variant at high contagiousness like Omicron and probably Delta, i hope some more educated people can deny it

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## Greg Boeser (Dec 14, 2021)

World weekly report:
This week Eastern Europe is the epicenter for the disease, with Hungary getting absolutely hammered 129 deaths per million this week. Other Eastern European countries are seeing death rates in the 90s per million. Germany is 33 per million. Netherlands is 24 per million. USA is 24 per million. France is 14 per million. UK is 13 per million. Italy is 11 per million.
Spain 7 per million. Iran 7 per million
Most of Africa is around 2 per million.

Data from COVID-19 Weekly Trends by Country - Worldometer

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## ThomasP (Dec 15, 2021)

A couple of items of possible interest re the nature of COVID-19, and applicable to the "herd immunity" concept.

The precursor Corona virus strains of the SARS-CoV-2 virus (which causes the disease called COVID-19) were found in 2013 in the cave complexes in the Wuhan region. There is a report in the NIH archives, published in 2016 IIRC, mentioning the finding of the variant(s) of Corona virus and its companion disease in the people living in the surrounding villages. While the virus was a precursor variant of the current SARS-CoV-2, it was no more dangerous than a bad cold at the time. It mutated/changed into the far more dangerous SARS-CoV-2 Alpha strain sometime after that.

Many of the virus caused "common cold" illnesses are due to a Corona virus variant. The "common cold" Corona virus mutates easily and has been around for a long time, since the mid-1800s at least, maybe earlier. There is currently no practical way to achieve "herd immunity" vs this type of disease with all its current variants and continuing variations, unless it stops mutating. In the same sense, there is no practical way to achieve "herd immunity" vs the SARS-CoV-2 virus and its variants as long as it keeps mutating at a (relatively) high rate.

However, it is very possible to develop a "herd resistance" - this is what happened subsequent to the 1918 influenza epidemic, and this is the reason that the 1918 influenza virus was more deadly in the under-60 age group than in the over-60 age group. There had been a previous epidemic of an earlier variant of the 1918 influenza virus in the 1860s, and the people who were alive then developed a "herd resistance" to the deadlier effects of the virus. The over-60 age group still caught the 1918 influenza variant - it had mutated enough that any immunity they had developed from the 1860s variant did not apply - but they simply did not get as sick for the most part.

As things appear to be progressing, large scale vaccination's primary benefit(s) will be in the area of developing "herd resistance". Anyone who catches COVID-19 and survives will be less likely (in large part) to suffer the more serious effects (including death) of subsequent variants. Since, as it has been shown/proven, a vaccinated person is much less likely to require hospitalization, ICU care, and/or die, the vaccinated person should have a significant advantage in the "herd resistance" area.

The long term benefits of "herd resistance" vs the more serious aspects of the COVID-19 illness are huge, both to society as a whole and to the individual.

If we had gotten our s**t together sooner we might have been able to achieve "herd immunity" - I doubt it (due to the rapid mutation rate) but maybe. Since we are apparently not able to achieve more or less universal vaccination early on, it is unlikely that "herd immunity" can be achieved.

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## The Basket (Dec 17, 2021)

Things are going again.

I had a dose of covid and don't want seconds.

So getting a bit gun shy.

So I be in my room. I was supposed to be doing stuff this weekend but that's all gone up the chimney.

So I be hibernating.

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## Vincenzo (Dec 20, 2021)

Italy report, 20th December, weekly monday to monday changes
cases 5,405,360, +167,139, deaths 135,778, +849, recovered 4,899,879, +87,344, active cases 369,703, +78,946, tests 70,598,903, +1,328,945, people tested 39,537,534, +612,081, vaccines administered 106,049,233*, +4,019,926, people "full" vaccinated 46,105,949, +181,985.
fatality rate 2.5% (-0.1)
mortality rate 2,251 per million (+14)
positive rate 13.7% (+0.2)
vaccines on population 1,758,198 per million (+66,647)
people "full" vaccinated 764,394 per million (+3,017)
test rate this week 22,033 per million 
positive rate this week 27.3% 
new case rate this week 2,771 per million 
new vaccines this week 66,647 per million 
people "full" vaccinated this week 3,017 per million 

* it's started the 3rd (2nd for the J&J but with a MRNA vaccine) shot campaign ,all the over 18 are eligible, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably around 50 millions , 15,153,000 shot did. It's started also the vaccination for the 5-11 age children

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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 20, 2021)

Got my booster last Friday. Started feeling crappy Friday night. By Saturday night was running a slight temperature, really felt like crap. Some over the counter meds and later on a little whisky and tea, knocked me out for a while. Woke up sweating, fever gone but I slept funky so my back was sore. Today I'm almost back to normal.

Despite the self torture, no regrets.

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## Vincenzo (Dec 27, 2021)

Italy report, 27th December, weekly monday to monday changes
cases 5,678,112, +272,752, deaths 136,753, +975, recovered 5,003,855, +103,976, active cases 537,504, +167,801, tests 72,087,933, +1,489,030, people tested 40,327,460, +789,926, vaccines administered 108,684,097*, +2,634,864, people "full" vaccinated 46,246,099, +140,140.
fatality rate 2.4% (-0.1)
mortality rate 2,267 per million (+16)
positive rate 14.1% (+0.4)
vaccines on population 1,801,882 per million (+43,684)
people "full" vaccinated 766,717 per million (+2,323)
test rate this week 24,687 per million (+2,654)
positive rate this week 34.5% (+7.2)
new case rate this week 4,522 per million (+1,751)
new vaccines this week 43,684 per million (-22,963)
people "full" vaccinated this week 2,323 per million (-694)

* it's started the 3rd (2nd for the J&J but with a MRNA vaccine) shot campaign ,all the over 16 are eligible, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably over 50 millions , 17,441,386 shot did (+2,288,386)

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## Vincenzo (Jan 6, 2022)

I missed this monday update
i have a report from my town we have around 2.5% of the population positive now (or better yesterday) luckily just 3 (around 2.5% of the positives) to hospital

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## Marcel (Jan 6, 2022)

Got my booster appointment, coming Sunday. So if you don’t hear from me by Monday, I’ll probably have been kidnapped by aliens or something

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## SaparotRob (Jan 6, 2022)

Steal anything you can from the UFO. Some people need proof. Then sell it on eBay.

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## nuuumannn (Jan 6, 2022)

SaparotRob said:


> Steal anything you can from the UFO. Some people need proof.



And stick it up yer bum to conceal it from the aliens, they'll never look there...

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## SaparotRob (Jan 6, 2022)

Not without dinner and a movie first. I may be easy but I'm not cheap.

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## Vincenzo (Jan 10, 2022)

Italy report, 10th January, weekly monday 27th December to monday 10th January changes
cases 7,554,344, +1,876,232, deaths 139,265, +2,512, recovered 5,410,482, +406,627, active cases 2,004,597, +1,467,093, tests 76,085,265, +3,997,332, people tested 42,856,913, +2,529,453, vaccines administered 115,892,340*, +7,208,243, people "full" vaccinated 46,656,121, +410,022.
fatality rate 1.8% (-0.6)
mortality rate 2,309 per million (+42)
positive rate 17.6% (+3.5)
vaccines on population 1,921,388 per million (+119,506)
people "full" vaccinated 773,516 per million (+6,799)
test rate this 2 week 66,272 per million
positive rate this 2 week 74.2% (+39.7)**
new case rate this 2 week 31,106 per million
new vaccines this 2 week 119,506 per million
people "full" vaccinated this 2 week 6,798 per million

* the 3rd (2nd for the J&J but with a MRNA vaccine) shot campaign ,all the over 12 are eligible, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably over 53 millions, 23,409,908 shot did (+5,968,522)

** some regions, idk if all, now accept as positive status certification the rapid test, that i'm not including in the report

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## Greg Boeser (Jan 10, 2022)

Today my daughter's school suspended classes for the rest of the week due to an influenza outbreak. COVID is so 2021.

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## Vincenzo (Jan 17, 2022)

Italy report, 17th January, weekly Monday to Monday changes
cases 8,790,302, +1,235,958, deaths 141,391, +2,126, recovered 6,093,633, +683,151, active cases 2,555,278, +550,681, tests 78,131,373, +2,046,108, people tested 44,322,789, +1,465,876, vaccines administered 120,593,869*, +4,701,529, people "full" vaccinated 46,907,872, +251,751.
fatality rate 1.6% (-0.2)
mortality rate 2,344 per million (+35)
positive rate 19.8% (+2.2)
vaccines on population 1,999,334 per million (+77,947)
people "full" vaccinated 777,689 per million (+4,173)
test rate this week 33,923 per million
positive rate this week 84.3% (+10.1)**
new case rate this week 20,491 per million
new vaccines this week 77,947 per million
people "full" vaccinated this week 4,173 per million

* the 3rd (2nd for the J&J but with a MRNA vaccine) shot campaign ,all the over 12 are eligible, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably around 54 millions, 27,238,361 shot did (+3,828,453)

** some regions, idk if all, now accept as positive status certification the rapid test, that i'm not including in the report

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## Thumpalumpacus (Jan 17, 2022)

Pretty sure I weathered omicron this last week. Vaxxed and boosted, it felt like a tough three-day cold, but plenty of sleep helped, as did a healthy bank of sick-time on the workbook.


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## Crimea_River (Jan 17, 2022)

China's claim that Omicron came from Canadian mail dismissed as 'ludicrous'


OTTAWA — A claim by Chinese health authorities that the Omicron variant of COVID-19 was introduced to a resident of Beijing through a piece of regular mail…




nationalpost.com

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## Thumpalumpacus (Jan 17, 2022)

Crimea_River said:


> China's claim that Omicron came from Canadian mail dismissed as 'ludicrous'
> 
> 
> OTTAWA — A claim by Chinese health authorities that the Omicron variant of COVID-19 was introduced to a resident of Beijing through a piece of regular mail…
> ...



China is invested in pointing the finger anywhere but at itself.

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## Crimea_River (Jan 17, 2022)

Very true. Glad you are feeling better.

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## Thumpalumpacus (Jan 17, 2022)

Crimea_River said:


> Very true. Glad you are feeling better.



Thanks. I credit the vax and listening to science.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 19, 2022)

Well looks like my entire household may have Covid again (we had it back in early 2020). My oldest sons class went into quarantine because of several positive tests (including both teachers). Him, my wife, and myself are showing symptoms. I think my son got it at school and brought it home. Will get tested tomorrow.

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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 19, 2022)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Well looks like my entire household may have Covid again (we had it back in early 2020). My oldest sons class went into quarantine because of several positive tests (including both teachers). Him, my wife, and myself are showing symptoms. I think my son got it at school and brought it home. Will get tested tomorrow.


That sucks! Hope things turn out negative!

I think my daughters had it a few weeks ago. Fate would have it that they were able to quarantine when they had symptoms but did not have to miss school because of some school admin days off. Several people around me had it over the past few weeks but I had no symptoms, probably because I got my booster. No tests were available in my area.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jan 19, 2022)

FLYBOYJ said:


> That sucks! Hope things turn out negative!
> 
> I think my daughters had it a few weeks ago. Fate would have it that they were able to quarantine when they had symptoms but did not have to miss school because of some school admin days off. Several people around me had it over the past few weeks but I had no symptoms, probably because I got my booster. No tests were available in my area.



So far the symptoms are mild, especially mine (knock on wood), and especially compared to what we had back in 2020.

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## Greg Boeser (Jan 23, 2022)

My brother spent 5 days in the hospital with Delta. When he got out people asked if his opinion of the virus had changed. 
Shaking his head, he explained: "It was a fight to the death, and I won."

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## Vincenzo (Jan 24, 2022)

Italy report, 24th January, weekly Monday to Monday changes
cases 10,001,344, +1,211,042, deaths 143,875, +2,484, recovered 7,147,612, +1,053,979, active cases 2,709,857, +154,579, tests 79,854,189, +1,722,816, people tested 47,388,265, +3,065,476, vaccines administered 124,160,456*, +3,566,587, people "full" vaccinated 47,061,619, +153,747.
fatality rate 1.4% (-0.2)
mortality rate 2,385 per million (+41)
positive rate 21.1% (+1.3)
vaccines on population 2,058,465 per million (+59,131)
people "full" vaccinated 780,238 per million (+2,549)
test rate this week 28,563 per million (-5,360)
positive rate this week 39.5% (-44.8)**
new case rate this week 20,078 per million (-413)
new vaccines this week 59,131 per million (-18,816)
people "full" vaccinated this week 2,549 per million (-1,624)

* the 3rd (2nd for the J&J but with a MRNA vaccine) shot campaign ,all the over 12 are eligible, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably around 54 millions, 30,231,332 shot did (+2,992,971)

** some regions, idk if all, now accept as positive status certification the rapid test, that i'm not including in the report


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## Marcel (Jan 24, 2022)

I’m planning to be the only Dutchman to never have had Covid, next year. Still succeeding

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## Vincenzo (Jan 29, 2022)

I get a update for my town we had, to yesterday, 130 active positive, and this week we had an other dead, the 13th if i'm not in wrong


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## Acheron (Jan 29, 2022)

Thumpalumpacus said:


> Thanks. I credit the vax and listening to science.


Same here. Lat December, I brought Covid into our household, but thanks to a double dose of Biontech, I and my father had only symptoms akin to a cold. My mother had Astra-Zeneca and Moderna an said she had no symptoms at all. I am so getting a Moderna booster.

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## Vincenzo (Jan 31, 2022)

Italy report, 31st January, weekly Monday to Monday changes
cases 10,983,116, +981,772, deaths 146,498, +2,623, recovered 8,244,012, +1,096,400, active cases 2,592,606, -117,251, tests 81,342,858, +1,488,669, people tested 48,563,681, +1,175,416, vaccines administered 128,096,191*, +3,935,735, people "full" vaccinated 47,356,545, +294,926.
fatality rate 1.3% (-0.1)
mortality rate 2,429 per million (+44)
positive rate 22.6% (+1.5)
vaccines on population 2,123,716 per million (+65,251)
people "full" vaccinated 785,128 per million (+4,890)
test rate this week 24,681 per million (-3,882)
positive rate this week 83.5% (+44)**
new case rate this week 16,277 per million (-3,801)
new vaccines this week 65,251 per million (+6,120)
people "full" vaccinated this week 4,890 per million (+2,341)

* the 3rd (2nd for the J&J but with a MRNA vaccine) shot campaign ,all the over 12 are eligible, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably around 54 millions, 33,339,134 shot did (+3,107,802)

** some regions, idk if all, now accept as positive status certification the rapid test, that i'm not including in the report

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## Vincenzo (Feb 7, 2022)

Italy report, 7th February, weekly Monday to Monday changes
cases 11,663,338, +680,222, deaths 149,097, +2,599, recovered 9,523,540, +1,279,528, active cases 1,990,701, -601,905 tests 82,605,992, +1,263,134, people tested 49,539,069, +975,388, vaccines administered 130,896,357*, +2,800,166, people "full" vaccinated 47,757,907, +401,362.
fatality rate 1.3% (=)
mortality rate 2,472 per million (+43)
positive rate 23.5% (+0.9)
vaccines on population 2,170,140 per million (+46,424)
people "full" vaccinated 791,782 per million (+6,654)
test rate this week 20,942 per million (-3,739)
positive rate this week 69.7% (-13.8)**
new case rate this week 11,277 per million (-5,000)
new vaccines this week 46,424 per million (-18,827)
people "full" vaccinated this week 6,654 per million (+1,764)

* the 3rd (2nd for the J&J but with a MRNA vaccine) shot campaign ,all the over 12 are eligible, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably around 54 millions, 35,208,005 shot did (+1,868,871)

** some regions, idk if all, now accept as positive status certification the rapid test, that i'm not including in the report

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## Vincenzo (Feb 14, 2022)

Italy report, 14th February, weekly Monday to Monday changes
cases 12,134,451, +471,113, deaths 151,296, +2,199, recovered 10,392,540, +869,000, active cases 1,590,615, -400,086 tests 83,677,548, +1,071,556, people tested 50,287,710, +748,641, vaccines administered 132,208,910*, +1,312,553, people "full" vaccinated 47,870,720, +112,813.
fatality rate 1.2% (-0.1)
mortality rate 2,508 per million (+36)
positive rate 24.1% (+0.6)
vaccines on population 2,191,901 per million (+21,761)
people "full" vaccinated 793,652 per million (+1,870)
test rate this week 17,765 per million (-3,177)
positive rate this week 62.9% (-6.8)**
new case rate this week 7,811 per million (-3,466)
new vaccines this week 21,761 per million (-24,663)
people "full" vaccinated this week 1,870 per million (-4,784)

* the 3rd (2nd for the J&J but with a MRNA vaccine) shot campaign ,all the over 12 are eligible, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably around 54 millions, 36,255,285 shot did (+1,047,280)

** some regions, idk if all, now accept as positive status certification the rapid test, that i'm not including in the report


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## nuuumannn (Feb 14, 2022)

Well, things are heating up in Fortress New Zealand and as mentioned in another thread, my girlfriend informed me she was in close contact with someone who had tested positive for COVID, so I went for a test yesterday and am in isolation for the time being. My girlfriend's first test came back negative, but it was early days, she has to go for another on Friday, I don't, but the worst thing is her kids are showing symptoms, so she's kept them from school and is having them tested.

Some stats from the guh-mint.






COVID-19: Current cases


Information about confirmed and probable cases of COVID-19 in New Zealand.




www.health.govt.nz

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## 33k in the air (Feb 14, 2022)

Vincenzo said:


> Italy report, 14th February, weekly Monday to Monday changes
> cases 12,134,451, +471,113, deaths 151,296, +2,199, recovered 10,392,540, +869,000, active cases 1,590,615, -400,086 tests 83,677,548, +1,071,556, people tested 50,287,710, +748,641, vaccines administered 132,208,910*, +1,312,553, people "full" vaccinated 47,870,720, +112,813.
> fatality rate 1.2% (-0.1)
> mortality rate 2,508 per million (+36)
> ...



The ISS extended reports include a table showing the vaccination status by age group for the entire 12+ population. See Table 5A on page 25 of the report. For Jan. 22, 2022, the numbers were estimated to be:

*Ages 12-39*
Unvaccinated: 2,219,338 (12.73% of the 12-39 population)
Partially vaccinated: 790,453 (4.53%)
Fully vaccinated for 120 days or less: 4,135,263 (23.72%)
Fully vaccinated for more than 120 days: 6,940,175 (39.81%)
Fully vaccinated with a booster: 3,348,303 (19.21%)

*Ages 40-59*
Unvaccinated: 2,248,822 (12.20% of the 40-59 population)
Partially vaccinated: 480,236 (2.61%)
Fully vaccinated for 120 days or less: 2,168,968 (11.77%)
Fully vaccinated for more than 120 days: 6,129,646 (33.27%)
Fully vaccinated with a booster: 7,398,915 (40.15%)

*Ages 60-79*
Unvaccinated: 954,620 (7.04% of the 60-79 population)
Partially vaccinated: 222,091 (1.64%)
Fully vaccinated for 120 days or less: 627,232 (4.63%)
Fully vaccinated for more than 120 days: 3,421,888 (25.24%)
Fully vaccinated with a booster: 8,333,312 (61.46%)

*Ages 80+*
Unvaccinated: 187,961 (4.09% of the 80+ population)
Partially vaccinated: 82,553 (1.80%)
Fully vaccinated for 120 days or less: 93,573 (2.04%)
Fully vaccinated for more than 120 days: 787,756 (17.16%)
Fully vaccinated with a booster: 3,438,840 (74.91%)

The ISS extended reports contain interesting data. These reports have been published about once per week going all the way back to March of 2020. The more recent reports allow for the calculation of real-world crude infection rates, as well as hospitalization, ICU admission, and fatality rates, by vaccination status and age group. By using all prior reports, cumulative fatality rates by age group can be determined, allowing one to see how the CFRs have changed over time, as as well as other analyses.

While only the most recent extended report is directly accessible on the Epicentro website, all prior reports are still there. You just have to replace the file name portion of the IP address with the correct file name. I've downloaded every extended report. If anyone wishes to see the links to all ISS extended reports so they can download the reports for themselves, just say so and I'll post them.


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## 33k in the air (Feb 14, 2022)

*Italy *— quarterly case fatality rate by age group, as determined from the data in the weekly ISS extended reports.

*First Quarter 2020 (13 weeks, up through Apr. 2, 2020)*
0-49 years: . . 0.53% (145 deaths out of 27,321 cases)
50-69 years: . 4.93% (1,927 / 39,064)
70+ years: . .26.29% (10,476 / 39,846)

*Second Quarter 2020 (13 weeks, Apr. 3, 2020, through June 30, 2020)*
0-49 years: . . 0.55% (237 / 43,303)
50-69 years: . 7.38% (2,658 / 36,034)
70+ years: . .33.35% (18,293 / 54,849)

*Third Quarter 2020 (13 weeks, July 1, 2020, through Sept. 29, 2020)*
0-49 years: . . 0.05% (25 / 47,424)
50-69 years: . 1.68% (269 / 16,010)
70+ years: . .27.48% (1,869 / 6,801)

*Fourth Quarter 2020 (13 weeks, Sept. 30, 2020, through Dec. 29, 2020)*
0-49 years: . . 0.04% (399 / 953,919)
50-69 years: . 0.86% (4,340 / 506,727)
70+ years: . .10.83% (30,159 / 278,516)

*First Quarter 2021 (13 weeks, Dec. 30, 2020, through Mar. 31, 2021)*
0-49 years: . . 0.05% (388 / 852,458)
50-69 years: . 1.10% (4,631 / 420,149)
70+ years: . .14.26% (31,751 / 222,689)

*Second Quarter 2021 (13 weeks, Apr. 1, 2021, through June 30, 2021)*
0-49 years: . . 0.07% (285 / 432,892)
50-69 years: . 2.01% (3,727 / 185,170)
70+ years: . .19.01% (15,037 / 79,102)

*Third Quarter 2021 (13 weeks, July 1, 2021, through Sept. 29, 2021)*
0-49 years: . . 0.04% (117 / 311,577)
50-69 years: . 0.91% (750 / 82,200)
70+ years: . . .8.37% (2,772 / 33,126)

*Fourth Quarter 2021 (13 weeks, Sept. 30, 2021, through Dec. 28, 2021)*
0-49 years: . . 0.02% (109 / 720,728)
50-69 years: . 0.36% (870 / 240,831)
70+ years: . . .4.90% (4,863 / 99,202)

Note the large drop-off in CFR from the second to the third quarter of 2020 in the two of age groups. The 0-49 CFR dropped to *one-tenth* of its former amount, while the 50-69 CFR fell to *less than one-quarter* of the amount in the preceding quarter. This is well before any vaccines were available. Note also the rates never return to anywhere near those seen in the first half of 2020.

The 70+ age group saw its large drop-off occurring from the third to the fourth quarter of 2020, with its CFR falling to *two-fifths* of the rate in the prior quarter.


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## ThomasP (Feb 15, 2022)

Hey 33k in the air,

From page 4 paragraph 5 of the report you reference above:

"Il tasso di mortalità standardizzato per età, relativo alla popolazione di età ≥ 12 anni, nel periodo 17/12/2021-16/01/2022, per i non vaccinati (103 decessi per 100.000 ab.) risulta circa nove volte più alto rispetto ai vaccinati con ciclo completo da ≤ 120 giorni (12 decessi per 100.000 ab.) e circa ventitré volte più alto rispetto ai vaccinati con dose aggiuntiva/booster (4 decessi per 100.000 ab.)."

Translation:

"The age-standardized death rate, relative to the population aged ≥12 years, in the period 17/12/2021 - 16/01/2022, for the unvaccinated (103 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants) [is] approximately nine times higher than [for those] vaccinated with a full course of ≤120 days (12 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants) and about twenty-three times higher than for those vaccinated with [an] additional/booster dose (4 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants)."


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## Vincenzo (Feb 15, 2022)

33k in the air said:


> Note the large drop-off in CFR from the second to the third quarter of 2020 in the two of age groups. The 0-49 CFR dropped to *one-tenth* of its former amount, while the 50-69 CFR fell to *less than one-quarter* of the amount in the preceding quarter. This is well before any vaccines were available. Note also the rates never return to anywhere near those seen in the first half of 2020.



You need to count that it's accepted that in the 1st wave the case count it's understimated


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## 33k in the air (Feb 16, 2022)

An interesting observation from the ISS extended reports:

Italy has recorded more cases of COVID in the last 43 days (5,810,874 from Dec. 29, 2021, through Feb. 9, 2022) than it did in the previous 678 days (5,730,040 from Feb. 20, 2020, through Dec. 28, 2021). That's despite, on Dec. 25, 2021, having 64.77% of its 12+ population fully vaccinated and a further 20.36% of the 12+ population fully vaccinated with a booster. (That's a total of 85.13% of the 12+ population having had two or three shots.)

One might assume the unvaccinated constitute a very large portion of those recent cases, but the data shows otherwise. The figure on the left shows the percentage of the 12+ population which fell within the stated vaccination status category as of Dec. 25, 2021, while the figure on the right shows the percentage of the 12+ population which were new cases from Dec. 31, 2021, through Jan. 30, 2022, and which fell within the stated vaccination category. The number in parentheses is the percentage point difference between the two.

11.83% | 21.08% = unvaccinated (+9.25)
. 3.07% | . 3.59% = partially vaccinated (+0.52)
19.28% | 17.90% = fully vaccinated for 120 days or less (-1.38)
45.49% | 39.91% = fully vaccinated for over 120 days (-5.58)
20.36% | 17.52% = fully vaccinated with a booster (-2.84)

These distributions are mostly quite similar.


The breakdown of those Dec. 29, 2021, through Feb. 9, 2022, cases by age group, showing the number of cases, number of deaths, and the case fatality rate.

```
Age Group        Cases   Deaths      CFR
------------------------------------------
0-9 years:     642,762        3    0.0005%
10-19 years:   860,299        6    0.0007%
20-29 years:   799,458       19    0.002%
30-39 years:   854,055       46    0.005%
40-49 years:   979,738      130    0.013%
50-59 years:   830,167      445    0.054%
60-69 years:   432,752    1,181    0.27%
70-79 years:   245,555    2,737    1.11%
80-89 years:   129,776    4,437    3.42%
90+ years:      36,101    2,297    6.36%
------------------------------------------
Total:       5,810,663   11,301    0.19%

(Note: there were 211 cases and 5 deaths without a stated age)
```


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## 33k in the air (Feb 16, 2022)

Links to all of Italy's published ISS extended reports.

March 12, 2020
March 30, 2020
April 2, 2020
April 9, 2020
April 16, 2020
April 23, 2020
April 28, 2020
May 7, 2020
May 14, 2020
May 20, 2020
May 26, 2020
June 3, 2020
June 9, 2020
June 16, 2020
June 23, 2020
June 30, 2020
July 7, 2020
July 14, 2020
July 21, 2020
July 28, 2020
August 4, 2020
August 11, 2020
August 18, 2020
August 25, 2020
September 1, 2020
September 8, 2020
September 15, 2020
September 22, 2020
September 29, 2020
October 6, 2020
October 13, 2020
October 20, 2020
October 27, 2020
November 7, 2020
November 11, 2020
November 18, 2020
November 25, 2020
December 2, 2020
December 9, 2020
December 16, 2020
December 22, 2020
December 29, 2020

January 5, 2021
January 13, 2021
January 20, 2021
January 27, 2021
February 3, 2021
February 10, 2021
February 17, 2021
February 24, 2021
March 3, 2021
March 10, 2021
March 17, 2021
March 24, 2021
March 31, 2021
April 7, 2021
April 14, 2021
April 21, 2021
April 28, 2021
May 5, 2021
May 12, 2021
May 19, 2021
May 26, 2021
June 1, 2021
June 9, 2021
June 16, 2021
June 23, 2021
June 30, 2021
July 7, 2021
July 14, 2021
July 21, 2021
July 28, 2021
August 4, 2021
August 11, 2021
August 18, 2021
August 25, 2021
September 1, 2021
September 8, 2021
September 15, 2021
September 22, 2021
September 29, 2021
October 6, 2021
October 13, 2021
October 20, 2021
October 27, 2021
November 3, 2021
November 10, 2021
November 17, 2021
November 24, 2021
December 1, 2021
December 7, 2021
December 15, 2021
December 21, 2021
December 28, 2021

January 5, 2022
January 12, 2022
January 19, 2022
January 26, 2022
February 2, 2022
February 9, 2022
February 16, 2022

Update: added link to most recent extended report

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## ThomasP (Feb 17, 2022)

Hey 33k in the air,

re "One might assume the unvaccinated constitute a very large portion of those recent cases, but the data shows otherwise. The figure on the left shows the percentage of the 12+ population which fell within the stated vaccination status category as of Dec. 25, 2021, while the figure on the right shows the percentage of the 12+ population which were new cases from Dec. 31, 2021, through Jan. 30, 2022, and which fell within the stated vaccination category. The number in parentheses is the percentage point difference between the two.

11.83% | 21.08% = unvaccinated (+9.25)
. 3.07% | . 3.59% = partially vaccinated (+0.52)
19.28% | 17.90% = fully vaccinated for 120 days or less (-1.38)
45.49% | 39.91% = fully vaccinated for over 120 days (-5.58)
20.36% | 17.52% = fully vaccinated with a booster (-2.84)"

I am not sure what you are trying to communicate here?? If you are saying that the vaccinated still catch COVID-19, you are correct. This is to be expected as the virus mutates.

As the number of unvaccinated who have contracted COVID-19 and recovered (or died) increases, and/or the % of people receiving vaccinations increases, the numbers you have calculated above will become even more similar. Eventually, at the current rates of infection, if 99% of the population become vaccinated you will have 98% of the cases occurring among the vaccinated. If 100% of the population is vaccinated you will have 100% of the new cases occurring among the vaccinated. So . . . ?

The primary benefits for the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated are the lower hospitalization and fatality rates among the vaccinated. As I pointed out upthread, the ISS report states that in Italy the unvaccinated are 9x more likely to die than the fully vaccinated, and 23x more likely to die than the fully vaccinated + a booster. These numbers are similar to what is being reported in the populations of other countries with modern health care systems and significant vaccination rates.

In Minnesota at the height of the Delta variant in October-November of 2021, the unvaccinated were 30x more likely to be hospitalized and 15x more likely to die than the fully vaccinated - accounting for the greatest difference in the effects of vaccination status to date (the Delta variant had the highest fatality rate of any variant so far). Currently, with the predominance of the more transmissible but significantly less deadly Omicron variant, the unvaccinated Minnesotan is 9.25x more likely to die than a person who is fully vaccinated. (I have not been able to find the Minnesota numbers for the fully vaccinated + booster.)

As is the case with most deadly diseases, the elderly and infirm will continue to suffer disproportionately high fatality rates.

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## 33k in the air (Feb 19, 2022)

As of the Feb. 16, 2022, ISS extended report:

Italy has recorded 9.5% more cases of COVID in the last 50 days (6,273,215 from Dec. 29, 2021, through Feb. 16, 2022) than it did in the previous 678 days (5,730,040 from Feb. 20, 2020, through Dec. 28, 2021).


The crude real-world infection rate by vaccination status category. Vaccination status population figures as of Jan. 8, 2022; case numbers are for the period of Jan 14, 2022, through Feb. 13, 2022. All figures are for those aged 12 or older only. Data from the ISS extended reports.

10.64% = unvaccinated (642,419 cases out of 6,040,050 unvaccinated individuals)
. 6.19% = partially vaccinated (102,315 / 1,652,417)
. 4.85% = fully vaccinated for 120 days or less (439,413 / 9,055,320)
. 4.22% = fully vaccinated for more than 120 days (848,833 / 20,133,986)
. 4.19% = fully vaccinated with a booster (717,143 / 17,128,172)

Note that it's not the absolute number that is of main importance, but rather the relative difference between categories. Note further the relative differences vary when breaking down the figures by age group and vaccination status category.

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## Vincenzo (Feb 21, 2022)

Italy report, 21st February, weekly Monday to Monday changes
cases 12,494,459, +360,008, deaths 153,190, +1,894, recovered 11,019,298, +626,758, active cases 1,321,971, -268,644 tests 84,507,224, +829,676, people tested 50,898,597, +610,887, vaccines administered 133,273,972*, +1,065,062, people "full" vaccinated 48,074,674, +203,954.
fatality rate 1.2% (=)
mortality rate 2,540 per million (+32)
positive rate 24.5% (+0.4)
vaccines on population 2,209,559 per million (+17,658)
people "full" vaccinated 797,034 per million (+3,382)
test rate this week 13,755 per million (-4,010)
positive rate this week 58.9% (-4)**
new case rate this week 5,969 per million (-1,842)
new vaccines this week 17,658 per million (-4,103)
people "full" vaccinated this week 3,382 per million (+1,512)

* the 3rd (2nd for the J&J but with a MRNA vaccine) shot campaign ,all the over 12 are eligible, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably around 54 millions, 36,948,006 shot did (+692,721)
from the 1st March will start the 4th/3rd shot campaign for the most fragile, estimated in around 900 thousands people

** some regions, idk if all, now accept as positive status certification the rapid test, that i'm not including in the report

Total deaths in my town go up to 15.

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## Vincenzo (Feb 28, 2022)

Italy report, 28th February, weekly Monday to Monday changes
cases 12,782,836, +288,377, deaths 154,767, +1,577, recovered 11,528,135, +508,837, active cases 1,099,934, -222,037 tests 85,251,765, +744,541, people tested 51,449,663, +551,066, vaccines administered 134,097,363*, +823,391, people "full" vaccinated 48,233,473, +158,799.
fatality rate 1.2% (=)
mortality rate 2,566 per million (+26)
positive rate 24.8% (+0.3)
vaccines on population 2,223,210 per million (+13,651)
people "full" vaccinated 799,666 per million (+2,632)
test rate this week 12,344 per million (-1,411)
positive rate this week 52.3% (-6.6)**
new case rate this week 4,781 per million (-1,188)
new vaccines this week 13,651 per million (-4,007)
people "full" vaccinated this week 2,633 per million (-749)

* the 3rd (2nd for the J&J but with a MRNA vaccine) shot campaign ,all the over 12 are eligible, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably around 54 millions but around 4 millions get the covid so they don't need the booster shot, 37,499,159 shot did (+551,153)
from the 1st March will start the 4th/3rd shot campaign for the most fragile, estimated in around 900 thousands people
** some regions, idk if all, now accept as positive status certification the rapid test, that i'm not including in the report

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## Vincenzo (Mar 28, 2022)

Italy report, 28th March, 4 week changes
cases 14,396,283, +1,613,447, deaths 158,877, +4,110, recovered 12,983,350, +1,455,215, active cases 1,254,056, +154,122 tests 87,968,303, +2,716,538, people tested 53,962,864, +2,513,201, vaccines administered 135,805,580*, +1,708,217, people "full" vaccinated 48,501,482, +268,009.
fatality rate 1.1% (-0.1)
mortality rate 2,634 per million (+68)
positive rate 26.7% (+1.9)
vaccines on population 2,251,531 per million (+28,321)
people "full" vaccinated 804,110 per million (+4,444)
test rate this 4 week 45,038 per million (NA)
positive rate this 4 week 64.2% (+11.9)**
new case rate this 4 week 26,749 per million (NA)
new vaccines this 4 week 28,321 per million (NA)
people "full" vaccinated this 4 week 4,444 per million (NA)

* the 3rd (2nd for the J&J but with a MRNA vaccine) shot campaign ,all the over 12 are eligible, atm idk the number of eligible population for the booster but probably around 54 millions but near 5 millions get the covid so they don't need the booster shot, 38,728,435 shot did (+1,229,276)
from the 1st March will start the 4th/3rd shot campaign for the most fragile, estimated in around 900 thousands people, 55,794 shot did
** some regions, idk if all, now accept as positive status certification the rapid test, that i'm not including in the report

Total deaths in my town go up to 16.

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## 33k in the air (Apr 5, 2022)

According to Italy's ISS extended reports, that country has gone all-in on vaccination.

On Dec. 12, 2021, about 10.55% of the 12+ age population had received a booster shot. Three months later, on March 12, 2022, that percentage was up to 69.14%.

It is also pushing hard into vaccinating 5-11 year olds, even though that age group is at extremely low risk. On Feb. 5, 2022, about 8.23% of that age group had been fully vaccinated. Five weeks later, on March 12, 2022, that percentage was up to 30.15%.

All that vaccinating doesn't seem to have done much to prevent cases. From Dec. 31, 2021, to March 6, 2022, there were, in the 12+ age group, at least 2,563,658 cases in fully vaccinated individuals, and a further 1,242,202 cases in individuals who had received a booster. During that same time period, there were 1,072,998 cases in unvaccinated individuals, and 181,900 cases in partially vaccinated individuals. In percentage terms, that means 21.2% of cases were unvaccinated, 3.6% were partially vaccinated, 50.66% were fully vaccinated, and 24.55% of cases were fully vaccinated with a booster.


Over the most recent one-month period available, Feb. 25 to March 27, cases were as follows for the 12+ age group:

14.46% were unvaccinated (205,764 unvaccinated cases out of 1,422,608 total cases)
. 1.96% were partially vaccinated (27,941 / 1,422,608)
18.94% were fully vaccinated (269,503 / 1,422,608)
64.63% were fully vaccinated with a booster (919,400 / 1,422,608)


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## Greg Boeser (Jul 25, 2022)

Today I talked with a friend I hadn't seen in almost two years. He suffered two strokes shortly after his first covid shot in April 2021, and is now confined to a wheelchair, is legally blind and has spent the last 15 months in a nursing home. He is 48. While in the nursing home, he and all the other residents contracted covid. They were all double vaxxed. 
I firmly believe that when the dust settles, and a thorough and objective investigation is finally conducted, it will be found that the covid shots killed and maimed more people than the disease.

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## buffnut453 (Jul 25, 2022)

Greg Boeser said:


> Today I talked with a friend I hadn't seen in almost two years. He suffered two strokes shortly after his first covid shot in April 2021, and is now confined to a wheelchair, is legally blind and has spent the last 15 months in a nursing home. He is 48. While in the nursing home, he and all the other residents contracted covid. They were all double vaxxed.
> I firmly believe that when the dust settles, and a thorough and objective investigation is finally conducted, it will be found that the covid shots killed and maimed more people than the disease.



The logical conclusion, therefore, is that the CDC (and every other Governmental drug agency in the entire world) approved the use of vaccines that are worse than the actual disease? And they did so deliberately, showing either mass incompetence or a HUGE conspiracy against the general public?

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## Greg Boeser (Jul 25, 2022)

Agent Orange.
Thalidomide.
Swine flu vaccine.
Science isn't perfect, and humans at all levels are subject to wishful self-delusion, as well as corruption. Remember, power corrupts, and the greater the organization the greater the effects of that corruption.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 25, 2022)

Folks - I see this becoming political, please keep opinions and conspiracy theories out of this discussion. Thank you!

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## buffnut453 (Jul 26, 2022)

Greg Boeser said:


> Agent Orange.
> Thalidomide.
> Swine flu vaccine.
> Science isn't perfect, and humans at all levels are subject to wishful self-delusion, as well as corruption. Remember, power corrupts, and the greater the organization the greater the effects of that corruption.



Of your 3 examples, only one was an actual vaccine. And for that vaccine example, the WHO and others were far less gung-ho about the risk of a swine flu pandemic but the CDC pressed ahead on its own. That's NOT the situation with COVID. There is general consensus across all Governmental-level health bureaux that the COVID vaccines are safe and beneficial. 

One organization can make a mistake. Every organization, globally, ALL making the same mistake across multiple vaccines? Sorry...I just don't buy that.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 26, 2022)



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## at6 (Jul 26, 2022)

I'm fully vaccinated and now reports say that there is no protection from infection or re-infection. To hell with the CDC. I will do what I've always done since t5his sh+t started. Avoid all people as much as possible, mask up and tell everyone, stay 10 feet away and don't even breathe. Don't even ask what I think about Monkey Pox.

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## stona (Jul 26, 2022)

at6 said:


> I'm fully vaccinated and now reports say that there is no protection from infection or re-infection.


How about protection from death?

In terms of the number of deaths per 1,000 of a population the rate for the unvaccinated remains much higher than for the vaccinated. 

In March this year, in the US, unvaccinated people 12 years and older had 17 times the rate of COVID-associated deaths, compared to people vaccinated with a primary series and a booster dose.

Look at it another way. In the UK, people who had received three doses of a COVID-19 vaccine or a booster were 93.4% less likely to die of the infection compared to the unvaccinated.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 26, 2022)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> View attachment 679006



If 400,000 people had to keep quiet for this, how many millions worldwide have to be quiet to cover up the supposed Covid one?

Seriously people. Everything is a damn conspiracy today…

SMH

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## SaparotRob (Jul 26, 2022)

And I'm sure you're in on it! Chemtrails!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 26, 2022)

SaparotRob said:


> And I'm sure you're in on it! Chemtrails!

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## vikingBerserker (Jul 26, 2022)

I think COVID will continue to mutate like the flu and one year's vaccination might not be as effective on the next years strain. In the end we'll just need to get an annual booster to treat the most recent strain just like we do with the flu.

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## buffnut453 (Jul 26, 2022)

at6 said:


> I'm fully vaccinated and now reports say that there is no protection from infection or re-infection. To hell with the CDC. I will do what I've always done since t5his sh+t started. Avoid all people as much as possible, mask up and tell everyone, stay 10 feet away and don't even breathe. Don't even ask what I think about Monkey Pox.



Part of the problem is that the virus is mutating. The latest variants, BA.4 and BA.5, are offshoots from the Omicron version and are quite distant, genetically-speaking, from the first 3 versions of the virus, which is what the vaccines were originally designed against. When others reference events like the swine flu debacle, we should also remember that they occurred over 45 years ago, long before technology existed to squence the genome of viruses. 

The R-nought for the earlier COVID variants was in the 2-3 range, whereas BA.5 has an R-nought of 18. It's a very different version of the virus and is much more infectious. I understand there are new vaccines being developed that target BA.4 and BA.5 but they won't be available until the autumn. However, even the current vaccines still reduce the severity of impact for the vast majority of the population...so the recommendation is still to keep up-to-date on vaccine and booster shots.


S
 stona
is bang on the money about the reduced severity of symptoms, reduced hospitalization rates, and reduced death rates for vaccinated people. Those are the key benefits. 

Fortunately, I have a work colleague who was nationally recognized for his work at the start of the COVID outbreak, and whose commentary I trust because he relies on data rather than proffering his own opinion. His recommendation (as of last week): keep your vaccines up to date and wear a mask in high-density environments. That's good enough for me.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 26, 2022)

vikingBerserker said:


> I think COVID will continue to mutate like the flu and one year's vaccination might not be as effective on the next years strain. In the end we'll just need to get an annual booster to treat the most recent strain just like we do with the flu.



You must be in on the conspiracy. You making money off that vax comrade?

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## buffnut453 (Jul 26, 2022)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> You must be in on the conspiracy. You making money off that vax comrade?



I'm just enjoying the kool-aid. It's yummy!

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## FLYBOYJ (Jul 26, 2022)

And I wonder what happened to all those people who were lined up on gurneys at my ex-wife's hospital waiting to be admitted? I guess George Soros paid them off and they went on vacation this summer!

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## buffnut453 (Jul 26, 2022)

This probably won't convince any conspiracy theorists...but it's more data-driven evidence regarding the origin of COVID:









Covid origin studies say evidence points to Wuhan market


One of the researchers said he hoped the studies would correct the false theory that it came from a lab.



www.bbc.com


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 26, 2022)

buffnut453 said:


> This probably won't convince any conspiracy theorists...but it's more data-driven evidence regarding the origin of COVID:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But who compiled the data? Was it someone I agree and align myself with, or someone I don’t? Otherwise its just fake news.

Don’t try and change my mind. I did my research. I watched a youtube video. 

 I cannot resist…

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 26, 2022)

Oh, and I heard from a guy, who heard from another guy, who heard from this girl that his second cousin third removed shared an apartment with that the world is flat. It must be true. No peer reviewed scientific data will tell me otherwise!

Wake up, remove that implant tracking device, and see the chemtrails my brothers and sisters! Join that pig farmer in the Philippines and destroy the blood drinking pedophile lizard people running the Kabal!



















Disclaimer: for anyone lurking here. I am not a conspiracy theory nut job. I’m only joking.

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## Crimea_River (Jul 26, 2022)

Got my second booster last week. Waiting for my stroke......

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## buffnut453 (Jul 26, 2022)

Crimea_River said:


> Got my second booster last week. Waiting for my stroke......



There-there....who's a good boy then?

Does that count...strokewise?

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## ARTESH (Jul 26, 2022)

Your conspiracy theories are nothing , comparing to what we do have here, in Iran.


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## Marcel (Jul 26, 2022)

Crimea_River said:


> Got my second booster last week. Waiting for my stroke......


Stroke of luck?

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## SaparotRob (Jul 26, 2022)

Marcel said:


> Stroke of luck?


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## Marcel (Jul 26, 2022)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> Disclaimer: for anyone lurking here. I am not a conspiracy theory nut job. I'm only joking.


Hey, I was just preparing to start trash-talking to you and now you spoiled it  

Ah well, back to the old Germany vs The Netherlands talk then

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## GTX (Jul 26, 2022)

Received 4th jab (2nd booster) yesterday and feeling fine. I am glad for being vaccinated having had a dose of COVID months ago and coming through with it being quite mild, which I put down to being vaccinated. I say that also having lost friends to this in the early days before there was a vaccine. IMHO anyone doubting the vaccine (or even the virus itself) is either deluded or deliberately trying to delude others.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 26, 2022)

Marcel said:


> Hey, I was just preparing to start trash-talking to you and now you spoiled it
> 
> Ah well, back to the old Germany vs The Netherlands talk then



The World Cup is around the corner. Yeah!

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## N4521U (Aug 10, 2022)

Yeah well, my wife and I are now part of the Recent statistics!!!!!!!!


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## SaparotRob (Aug 10, 2022)

Now you count.

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## N4521U (Aug 11, 2022)

SaparotRob said:


> Now you count.


Only a number


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## SaparotRob (Aug 11, 2022)

You are Number 6.

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## buffnut453 (Aug 11, 2022)

I'm No.1.

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## Vincenzo (Sep 18, 2022)

My sister get it
atm i don't catch it, she is living my same home

i'm sorry for my absence from the forum, i forgot to add this forum table to the firefox page

probably my brain will go to bad like my father just with 3 decades early

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