# Treasured footage of legenday Zero is now revived!!



## Take (Jun 23, 2008)

Check out this DVD!

In WW2, the United States Navy caught Japanese airplanes. They researched and found the tactics to kill the Japanese fighters. The United States National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) reserves the films of airplanes which were captured by American Navy.


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doysYtwMgrY_


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## evangilder (Jun 23, 2008)

Interesting, but there are some glaring things wrong with the footage. The first Zero shot (in color) is the CAF Zero, probably shot near the coast of California recently. I don't know what model of Zero the captured one is, but the wingtips are squared off, not rounded off. Either a late war model, or perhaps modified in some way during test and evaluation.

What REALLY stood out was the 2 zeros flying at the end with American flag kill markers on the side. Never happened. The Japanese were not allowed to put any sort of kill marks on their aircraft. Those markings are pure fabrications.


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## Trebor (Jun 23, 2008)

evangilder said:


> What REALLY stood out was the 2 zeros flying at the end with American flag kill markers on the side. Never happened. The Japanese were not allowed to put any sort of kill marks on their aircraft. Those markings are pure fabrications.



really? why is that?


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## evangilder (Jun 24, 2008)

The Japanese generally frowned upon any marking on an aircraft that would distinguish it from others. They believed that it did not foster unit cohesion. However, later in the war _some _aircraft were allowed to display markings. The markings that were used were not like the American way of doing it, either displayed on the tail, or at the rear of the fuselage between the cockpit and the tail. American flags were never used as kill marks.


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## Haztoys (Jun 24, 2008)

I to was thinking what you did Evan...Whats with the wing tips..??


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## evangilder (Jun 24, 2008)

I believe the model 23 Zero had the squared off wingtips, which was a late ware model, but am not sure.


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## Matt308 (Jun 24, 2008)

Square tipped version with US insignia is a naval version with folding wingtips removed and faired over. Reason unknown.


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## Haztoys (Jun 25, 2008)

My books say there was a A6M3 Model 32 it was a high altitude Zero...That had the squared wing ...


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## evangilder (Jun 25, 2008)

I may have meant model 32 and transposed the numbers. There was a clipped wing version, and I wonder is that is the captured one they were testing.


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## ccheese (Jun 25, 2008)

From what I've read the Japanese did allow "kill" marks on their aircraft. In
some areas the kill mark was a hatchet. Other kill marks were arrows thru 
an aircraft, and they were tail mounted. Also, kills were credited to the aircraft, not the pilot.

I have a good VHS tape of testing the original captured Zero. Going to try
to get it converted to DVD.

Charles


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## Haztoys (Jun 25, 2008)

And redish pink cherry blossoms kill marks also that look like stars ...I'm "think" the reason theres differant markings is the Army used one sort and navy another...


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## evangilder (Jun 25, 2008)

There are a number of markings that were used, late in the war. But the general rule was that markings for kills was not allowed. The rules appear to have been relaxed later in the war, but they never used American flags for kills markings and didn't put them below the cockpit like the Americans did.


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## Haztoys (Jun 25, 2008)

evangilder said:


> There are a number of markings that were used, late in the war. But the general rule was that markings for kills was not allowed. The rules appear to have been relaxed later in the war, but they never used American flags for kills markings and didn't put them below the cockpit like the Americans did.




You are right on this Evan ...The flag markings are BS ...And the markings they did use are more about the plane "I think" then the pilot..

I wonder if the Japanese flow just one plane most of the time ..Or different planes all the time...?


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## parsifal (Jun 26, 2008)

In addition to all that the Japanese rarely gave medals or other awards to their pilots. I have also read somewhere, that the IJN crediting system was the nmost difficult in the world, though I dont know what that entailed


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## Micdrow (Jun 26, 2008)

parsifal said:


> In addition to all that the Japanese rarely gave medals or other awards to their pilots. I have also read somewhere, that the IJN crediting system was the nmost difficult in the world, though I dont know what that entailed



Ive never heard that one. For the most part of what Ive read about japanese kills they tended to be exaggurated on many pilots. The dates and claims made by some japanese pilots dont match losses for other countries. Others like Suburo Saki can be confirmed on both sides with dates, times and locations. 

Many japanese airman may have hit there target but the plane made it back to base with damage but thats not considered a kill. Most of it was on the honor of the pilot.

Most japanese zero's radio's where either pulled from there aircraft to reduce weight or did not work due to the poor performance of japanese radios at the time. 

Without seeing the video I would have to say that the zero was a A6M3 zero which as it was stated above had the folding wingtips removed and faired over. It was orginially classifed as a new aircraft with the code name Hamp. After it was found to be the same aircraft but modifived version of the zero it was changed back to Zeke.


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## Micdrow (Jun 26, 2008)

Picture below of a A6M3 zero with wing tips removed.


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 27, 2008)

evangilder said:


> There are a number of markings that were used, late in the war. But the general rule was that markings for kills was not allowed. The rules appear to have been relaxed later in the war, but they never used American flags for kills markings and didn't put them below the cockpit like the Americans did.



Squadron-Signal -->>Flying Scoreboards

how about this then? seems that it wasnt that rare.


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## evangilder (Jun 27, 2008)

Two pictures and two drawings indicate it wasn't that rare? From everything that I have read, it was not something that was officially sanctioned and they were not allowed any kill markings early in the war. Were there some that were? Yes. That does not mean it was common.


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## parsifal (Jun 27, 2008)

Micdrow said:


> *Ive never heard that one. For the most part of what Ive read about japanese kills they tended to be exaggurated on many pilots. The dates and claims made by some japanese pilots dont match losses for other countries. Others like Suburo Saki can be confirmed on both sides with dates, times and locations*.
> 
> I checked my source and you are right. would pay to check first before speaking sometimes.
> 
> ...


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 27, 2008)

evangilder said:


> Two pictures and two drawings indicate it wasn't that rare? From everything that I have read, it was not something that was officially sanctioned and they were not allowed any kill markings early in the war. Were there some that were? Yes. That does not mean it was common.



first book i picked. Must be my lucky day.


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## Micdrow (Jun 27, 2008)

Snautzer said:


> first book i picked. Must be my lucky day.



I gotta agree with Eric, offically the japanese frowned on kill markings but they did not stop it from happening either. They can also be confusing to. Here is a link to some of the kill marking identified from different sources. Most books seem to publish these types of aircraft pictures because they look alot better then an aircraft without unusual markings. But if you look at post war scrap or abandoned aircraft photo's they are harder or more rare to find.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/ai...panese-aircraft-markings-camouflage-9317.html


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## Haztoys (Jun 27, 2008)

One thing I seem to see is the kill marks "seem" to be on ether real early aircraft ...Or real late air craft..( or is it just me..???)

Its almost it was OK at first ...Then not in most of the war...Then things got relaxed at the end of the war and they show up again..


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## Snautzer01 (Jun 28, 2008)

maybe in an efford to boost morale i guess


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## barkhorn45 (Jul 1, 2008)

from what i've read the A6M3 model 32's wing's were skinned with heavier gauge duraluminum so it could handle higher diving speed's.
also the wing's were manufactured with square tip's becase land-based operation's were becoming the norm and folding wing-tips were'nt neccessary.
most jnaf pilots were not assigned a permanent aircraft ussually taking what was available,which is another reason you don't see kill markings on jnaf fighters.granted there were exceptions


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## Micdrow (Jul 4, 2008)

barkhorn45 said:


> from what i've read the A6M3 model 32's wing's were skinned with heavier gauge duraluminum so it could handle higher diving speed's.
> also the wing's were manufactured with square tip's becase land-based operation's were becoming the norm and folding wing-tips were'nt neccessary.
> most jnaf pilots were not assigned a permanent aircraft ussually taking what was available,which is another reason you don't see kill markings on jnaf fighters.granted there were exceptions



Very true barkshorn45, you hit it right on the nose.


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