# What War Movie Would You Show Your Son or Daughter?



## NevadaK (Aug 5, 2020)

This is heavily subjective, but here is my question.

The other day my son and I decided to watch Midway. My son is very much a film aficionado and I have a graduate minor concentration in film criticism so we usually watch movies with a sharp eye. Twenty minutes in, we both are under impressed by the movie and I made the comment that there were far better aviation war movies and we paused Midway to watch Twelve O'Clock High and Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo. One thing we both picked up on is that the soldiers/airman all acted like they new what war was and seemed invested differently than current actors do. 

Made me wonder, if you were to recommend and aviation based war movie. What would it be and why?


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 5, 2020)

During Combat: _12 O'Clock_, _Das Boot_ and _Saving Private Ryan_. Showing after the war its hard to beat _The Best Years of Our Lives_.
I might add _All Quiet on the Western Front_ but I'd need to watch it again.

EDIT: Missed the aviation requirement. _12 O'Clock_, and _The Best Years of Our Lives_

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## tyrodtom (Aug 5, 2020)

Not a movie, but a BBC series, Piece of Cake.
Movies , 12 O'clock High, Battle of Britain,

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## michaelmaltby (Aug 5, 2020)

"Stalingrad", "Das Boot", "Saving Private Ryan", "Catch 22" "How I Won the War" (Richard Lester;John Lennon), "Schindler's List" "The Cross of Iron" , "Attack" (Jack Palance)."

"... EDIT: Missed the aviation requirement."

_Whaaat!!! _

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## Schweik (Aug 6, 2020)

Depends how old the kid. But if I have a child who might go into the military and is at an older age, late teenage years etc., I'd want them to have some idea what war is like.

"Come and See", "When Trumpet's Fade", "Cross of Iron", "Stalingrad", "The Longest Day", "Kelly's Heroes", (the original) "All's Quiet on the Western Front", "Path's of Glory", "The Winter War", "Das Boot", "Hamburger Hill", "Full Metal Jacket", "Apocalypse Now"

For aviation related, maybe "Dark Blue World", "Dunkirk", "The Dam Busters", and definitely every episode of the old show "Dogfights!"

and then maybe "Hell in the Pacific" just for fun.

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## Colkid (Aug 6, 2020)

1.*Command Decision (1948) Clark Gable, Walter Pidgeon, Van Johnson, Brian Donlevy, like 12 O'Clock high.*
*2. (12 )'clock High. 3. The Tuskegee Airmen (1995 TV Movie) 4. Old Midway 1976 5. Tora,tora, Tora, *

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## Schweik (Aug 6, 2020)

I wish there were more good airplane war movies but most of the old ones don't hold up that well and the newer ones are so "Hollywood" - they are kind of embarrassing. Even relatively good ones like Dunkirk are really pretty bad on the aviation stuff.


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## swampyankee (Aug 6, 2020)

_Paths of Glory, All Quiet on the Western Front, Patton, Das Boot, Enemy at the Gates, Shoa, Longest Day_, possibly _The Deer Hunter_ limiting it to the 20th Century.

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## Schweik (Aug 6, 2020)

I saw the russian roulette scene in Deer Hunter when I was like 14, I think I was a little too young for that. Kinda freaked me out. Apocalypse now is another good one though probably best for when they are a little older.

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## Colkid (Aug 6, 2020)

swampyankee said:


> _Paths of Glory, All Quiet on the Western Front, Patton, Das Boot, Enemy at the Gates, Shoa, Longest Day_, possibly _The Deer Hunter_ limiting it to the 20th Century.



They said Aviation movie.


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## pgeno71 (Aug 6, 2020)

The movie is dated, and so are the planes, but I like _The Blue Max_. It fits the aviation requirement. And, come on guys, as a child of the 80's, I am shocked and horrified no one has mentioned _Top Gun_. Let the comments fly.

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## Zippythehog (Aug 6, 2020)

Battle of Britain
Dunkirk
12 O’Clock High
The War Lover (caution-naughty bits)
The Great Escape
Dawn Patrol
A Guy Named Joe
The Blue Max (caution-naughty bits)
30 seconds over Tokyo
Bridges of Toko-Ri
Strategic Air Command
Dr Strangelove (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb)
The original Midway (IN _SENSOROUND_!)
Hell in the Pacific
The Best Years of Our Lives

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## soulezoo (Aug 6, 2020)

Zippy caught all of mine... so what he said. Along with Command Decision. Flying Tigers is ok too.

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## NevadaK (Aug 6, 2020)

Some great suggestions all around! My son is 26 and not looking for a military career. If we are going to go outside of the WW2 time frame the Howard Hughes movie Wings has some amazing aerial scenes. Of course Hell's Angels has the amazing zeppelin battle. Its worth the effort to find the original release colorized version.

A couple of you have mentioned Dunkirk (on the good and bad side). Here is a bit of movie geekiness for you: Tom Hardy's call sign in the movie is Farrier. The call sign was written into the script as a reference to the old poem "For want of a nail, a shoe was lost, for want of a shoe a horse was lost..." Ultimately causing the loss of the war. A farrier shoes horses. It is the subtext to Tom Hardy's heroics.

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## wlewisiii (Aug 6, 2020)

pgeno71 said:


> And, come on guys, as a child of the 80's, I am shocked and horrified no one has mentioned _Top Gun_. Let the comments fly.



Desperately looking for something nice to say, I can only come up with, "it's not quite as bad a Pearl Harbor"

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## soulezoo (Aug 6, 2020)

I'm going to add, the Bridges of Toko Ri is excellent as it is one of the few films where you get to see jet fighters and helicopters in their infancy.

In my mind's eye, where the end of WWII saw some really beautiful piston engine aircraft made, the jets (aside from ME262) didn't look all that great to me. P-80 anyone?

At least not until F-86 and MiG 15.

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## wlewisiii (Aug 6, 2020)

soulezoo said:


> I'm going to add, the Bridges of Toko Ri is excellent as it is one of the few films where you get to see jet fighters and helicopters in their infancy.
> 
> In my mind's eye, where the end of WWII saw some really beautiful piston engine aircraft made, the jets (aside from ME262) didn't look all that great to me. P-80 anyone?
> 
> At least not until F-86 and MiG 15.



I love the P-80. It was near perfect for the time in that they stuck to simple and known structures while working with utter unknowns in the engine. It certainly looks (and flew) better than the P-59 or P84. 

Though I do wish Lockheed had continued to work on the L-133 until the P-80 project had come up. Replace the 2 impractical engines with one or even two J-33? Ah, now that could have been interesting...

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## Zippythehog (Aug 6, 2020)

soulezoo said:


> I'm going to add, the Bridges of Toko Ri is excellent as it is one of the few films where you get to see jet fighters and helicopters in their infancy.
> 
> In my mind's eye, where the end of WWII saw some really beautiful piston engine aircraft made, the jets (aside from ME262) didn't look all that great to me. P-80 anyone?
> 
> At least not until F-86 and MiG 15.



It's been a while since I've seen it, but, I'm pretty sure it's all navy birds- no P-80s or F-86s that I can recall. However, I might not be able to remember them for the sight of Grace Kelley. She just keeps stealing the scene-even when she isn't in it...

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## herman1rg (Aug 6, 2020)

For WW2 aviation films I would recommend

Battle of Britain

Tora! Tora! Tora!


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## Schweik (Aug 6, 2020)

Dr. Strangelove is a good catch the aviation part of that, as in a strategic bomber raid and world war 3 was very well done.

Bridges of toko-ri I remember that when I think it was pretty good, were those f9f Panthers or f7f?

I haven't seen a lot of the old black-and-white war movies but I would love to see a good one. I've been really disappointed even by the later ones that I loved as a kid like Midway & Tora Tora Tora from the 70s and I don't think hold up very well today. Too much completely mismatched war footage and not very accurate replicas (T-6 Texan) and so on.

The Japanese did a film during the war with some very well done combat scenes using models and real footage: 

it's one of the few that seems plausible to mw. Most of the air-to-air combat seems like so bad to me. I really like to know which one of the old films really hold up cause I'll go and watch them.

as much as I like p-40s I didn't think the flying tigers was very good for example.

Catch 22 I think was a little bit mixed as a film I liked the book better, but it had some pretty neat flying scenes with a lot of real b25 s.


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## Escuadrilla Azul (Aug 6, 2020)

I would like to add "When we were soldiers", helos count on aviation.

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## vikingBerserker (Aug 6, 2020)

I had forgotten about "Hell's Angels", that was a great movie. WW1 aircraft, Jean Harlow........WOOF!

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## Zippythehog (Aug 6, 2020)



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## Zippythehog (Aug 6, 2020)

THIS AREA CLOSED FOR MAINTENANCE

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## Colkid (Aug 6, 2020)

Zippythehog said:


> View attachment 591165


Groucho said a few Stupid things. This is one Inappropriate saying.


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## Col Campbell (Aug 6, 2020)

For me it would be "Twelve O'Clock High" and "Memphis Belle" as they are both about the B-17 offensive out of the UK. My father was a flight engineer and top turret gunner on one. The only real story I ever got from him was about having to hand-crank the landing gear down, similar to what was done at the end of "Memphis Belle."

Jim

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## wuzak (Aug 6, 2020)

Col Campbell said:


> "Memphis Belle"



1990 movie - or the 1944 movie?


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## manta22 (Aug 6, 2020)

NevadaK said:


> This is heavily subjective, but here is my question.
> 
> The other day my son and I decided to watch Midway. My son is very much a film aficionado and I have a graduate minor concentration in film criticism so we usually watch movies with a sharp eye. Twenty minutes in, we both are under impressed by the movie and I made the comment that there were far better aviation war movies and we paused Midway to watch Twelve O'Clock High and Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo. One thing we both picked up on is that the soldiers/airman all acted like they new what war was and seemed invested differently than current actors do.
> 
> Made me wonder, if you were to recommend and aviation based war movie. What would it be and why?



In addition to all the good films already mentioned, I'd recommend "The War Lover" with Steve McQueen and "The Great Waldo Pepper" with Robert Redford. If you eliminate the aviation requirement, there is the most depressing nihilistic film ever made, "Fires On The Plain", a Japanese movie. Strictly Cold War-- "The Spy Who Came In From The Cold" with Richard Burton. This is the only film that accurately portrays the bleak depressing atmosphere of East Germany.


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## flyr956 (Aug 7, 2020)

I went to see 12 O'clock High as a nine year old kid in a theater (.20 cent matinee, can you believe it?) in 1950 and it, among other literature mainly books, helped influence what turned out to be a 40 year airline career, the last 34 as a pilot. To this day, I love to see most Gregory Peck films! Gary Gordon, Laguna Vista, Texas

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## NevadaK (Aug 7, 2020)

Escuadrilla Azul said:


> I would like to add "When we were soldiers", helos count on aviation.


Yes they do. My Dad was a military and professional helo pilot. He flew in the first Special Forces helicopter unit in Vietnam and received a DFC among other citations.

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## Dash119 (Aug 7, 2020)

FAIL SAFE with Henry Fonda. Not really a War movie, but a scary what if...
Includes the B-58 as the aviation component.

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## Zippythehog (Aug 7, 2020)

NevadaK said:


> Yes they do. My Dad was a military and professional helo pilot. He flew in the first Special Forces helicopter unit in Vietnam and received a DFC among other citations.



Helos do count for aviation, however, they ain't natural.

Do you know the old adage, how do helicopters generate lift?
They don't-they vibrate against the earth until it repels them.

Seriously though, true flying machines-everything is flying around.


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## Admiral Beez (Aug 7, 2020)

Zulu. No question. I watched this film as a youngster and remember thinking it showed both sides in a fair way, rather than the way most war movies portrayed the enemy as faceless, autonomous monsters.




Two future Knights, a Tribal Chief and a CBE Order of chivalry recipient. Now that’s a star cast!

Next, Letters from Iwo Jima because it portrayed the Japanese as regular blokes doing their best. This time, the American soldiers are portrayed as the faceless, soulless horde. Good work by Eastwood.


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## Clayton Magnet (Aug 7, 2020)

Admiral Beez said:


> Next, Letters from Iwo Jima because it portrayed the Japanese as regular blokes doing their best


Agreed, it was a great movie, I always appreciate when war movies humanize the antagonists. 
I appreciated the small scene near the end of "Fury" when the German soldier spots the young tanker cowering under the Sherman, and instead of shrieking in unintelligible Teutonic whilst dragging the boy out, he simply smiles and allows him to escape.


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## Zippythehog (Aug 7, 2020)

Admiral Beez said:


> Zulu. No question. I watched this film as a youngster and remember thinking it showed both sides in a fair way, rather than the way most war movies portrayed the enemy as faceless, autonomous monsters.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Both great movies, but only Iwo Jima has aircraft and that only passing?


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## Admiral Beez (Aug 7, 2020)

Zippythehog said:


> Both great movies, but only Iwo Jima has aircraft and that only passing?


Whoops, I missed that bit. Well, we can keep Sir Michael Cain....Battle of Britain. His voice cameo in Dunkirk was a nice touch too.

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## GrauGeist (Aug 7, 2020)

While not a war movie, I recommend Strategic Air Command both for Jimmie Stewert's performance and the overload of B-36 p0rn.

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## Zippythehog (Aug 7, 2020)

Admiral Beez said:


> Whoops, I missed that bit. Well, we can keep Sir Michael Cain....Battle of Britain. His voice cameo in Dunkirk was a nice touch too.



Grand!
Takakakakakakakakakak


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## Admiral Beez (Aug 7, 2020)

Nice!


Zippythehog said:


> Grand!
> Takakakakakakakakakak


And whilst we're looking at aviation-related war movies starring Sir Michael Cain, when I was a lad I really enjoyed A Bridge Too Far.




There were five additional future Knights in that film...

Sir Dirk Bogarde
Sir Thomas Sean Connery
Sir Philip Anthony Hopkins
Sir Laurence Olivier
Sir Richard Attenborough

I wouldn't want to be a Red Shirt on an away mission with a half dozen Knights. You're not coming back.

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## N4521U (Aug 7, 2020)

Band of Brothers..........
Enemy at the Gate............
Finding Private Ryan............
1917.................................................
There is No good side to war!


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## PFVA63 (Aug 7, 2020)

When I was younger the 1st time I saw "Dawn Patrol" with Erol Flynn, David Niven and Basil Rathbone it had a big effect on me. The scene where the squadron commander laments about how hard it is to find the words for his letters to the next of kin of all the lost pilots, and how his assistant notes that "No matter how you word it, it'll break their hearts just the same" (or something along those lines) still sticks in the back of my mind every time there is talk of military action, to this day

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## Admiral Beez (Aug 7, 2020)

PFVA63 said:


> When I was younger the 1st time I saw "Dawn Patrol" with Erol Flynn, David Niven and Basil Rathbone it had a big effect on me. The scene where the squadron commander laments about how hard it is to find the words for his letters to the next of kin of all the lost pilots, and how his assistant notes that "No matter how you word it, it'll break their hearts just the same" (or something along those lines) still sticks in the back of my mind every time there is talk of military action, to this day


It'[s a rare national leader, responsible for sending those boys to die who also once had to write those letters. Dwight Eisenhower certainly.

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## Simon Thomas (Aug 8, 2020)

I am planning on watching 'Danger Close' Battle of Long Tan with my older teenagers. 
The helicopter they used in the movie was the actual helicopter that did the ammo drop during the battle.


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## Snautzer01 (Aug 8, 2020)

The World at War - Wikipedia


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## glennasher (Aug 8, 2020)

It seems most, if not all, of the "good" war movies have been mentioned already, but I'm partial to "A Bridge Too Far" as it was playing in the post theater when I went to Jump School at Ft. Benning, and I spent 3.5 years in the 82nd. Abn. Div. No doubt that colors my opinion 'slightly'. A few years ago, I gave away my VHS copy of that movie, and a copy of the book, to a nephew who had expressed interest in such things.

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## soulezoo (Aug 10, 2020)

Zippythehog said:


> It's been a while since I've seen it, but, I'm pretty sure it's all navy birds- no P-80s or F-86s that I can recall. However, I might not be able to remember them for the sight of Grace Kelley. She just keeps stealing the scene-even when she isn't in it...


I just used P-80 to make a point. IIRC, the movie used F9F Panthers.

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## GrauGeist (Aug 10, 2020)

"Bridges at Toko Ri" featured the F9F-5, F2H-3, AD-4 and of course, Mickey Rooney's HO3S-1.

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## N33 (Aug 10, 2020)

Tora, Tora, Tora - for historical accuracy relative to other movies

12 O’Clock High - for real experiences of aircrews shown

633 Squadron - for conveying the courage required and the number of lives sacrificed

Battle of Britain - all of the above

Catch 22 (earlier version with Alan Arkin) - for conveying many truths about war that are seldom addressed in movies

The Blue Max - good lesson on unchecked ambition

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## wuzak (Aug 11, 2020)

The Dambusters.

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## chipieal (Aug 12, 2020)

I would have to say The Best Years Of Our Lives. Unlike most gung - ho WWII movies _ it actually dealt with the Psychological damage done to members of The 8th Air Force. I have seen this movie at least 20 times and still am in awe of the job done in depicting this side of war.

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## XBe02Drvr (Aug 12, 2020)

soulezoo said:


> I just used P-80 to make a point. IIRC, the movie used F9F Panthers.


And in Michener's book (better than the movie) it was F2H Banshees.
I choose to break the "aviation rule" and go with "Das Boot", "Private Ryan", "Cross of Iron", "Catch 22" (original), "Deer Hunter", "Apocalypse Now", both Iwo Jimas ("Flags" and "Letters") and "Tora Tora". All in one sitting. Part of war is combat fatigue. The kid should go away with a bad taste in the mouth about war.

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## herman1rg (Aug 12, 2020)

XBe02Drvr said:


> And in Michener's book (better than the movie) it was F2H Banshees.
> I choose to break the "aviation rule" and go with "Das Boot", "Private Ryan", "Cross of Iron", "Catch 22" (original), "Deer Hunter", "Apocalypse Now", both Iwo Jimas ("Flags" and "Letters") and "Tora Tora". All in one sitting. Part of war is combat fatigue. The kid should go away with a bad taste in the mouth about war.


You missed a Tora!


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## XBe02Drvr (Aug 12, 2020)

herman1rg said:


> You missed a Tora!


And I've missed the X ring a few times in my life. So what? I abbreviated several titles. You got my meaning. Must we quibble about the grammatical niceties? Sorry, my sense of humor is in quarantine, and I'm getting fed up with this itchy mask.

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## NevadaK (Aug 12, 2020)

XBe02Drvr said:


> And in Michener's book (better than the movie) it was F2H Banshees.
> I choose to break the "aviation rule" and go with "Das Boot", "Private Ryan", "Cross of Iron", "Catch 22" (original), "Deer Hunter", "Apocalypse Now", both Iwo Jimas ("Flags" and "Letters") and "Tora Tora". All in one sitting. Part of war is combat fatigue. The kid should go away with a bad taste in the mouth about war.


Unfortunately my kid watched all three of the extended versions of the Lord of the Rings trilogy in one sitting. He’s got more stamina than me.

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## tommayer (Aug 13, 2020)

NevadaK said:


> This is heavily subjective, but here is my question.
> 
> The other day my son and I decided to watch Midway. My son is very much a film aficionado and I have a graduate minor concentration in film criticism so we usually watch movies with a sharp eye. Twenty minutes in, we both are under impressed by the movie and I made the comment that there were far better aviation war movies and we paused Midway to watch Twelve O'Clock High and Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo. One thing we both picked up on is that the soldiers/airman all acted like they new what war was and seemed invested differently than current actors do.
> 
> Made me wonder, if you were to recommend and aviation based war movie. What would it be and why?


Great idea for a thread. For 20 years I taught a course called 20th Century War Lit. I included some films. Every year I'd struggle with what to do for WWII. Das Boot, The Battle of San Pietro, Let There Be Light, Memphis Belle (the original) and Thunderbolt were always contenders.


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## lordbizarre (Aug 13, 2020)

well , the Blue Max , and certainly _All Quiet on the Western Front_ , also Dr Strangelove (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb) . And very important to me , if I may include the "Cold War" then certainly 100% : One Two Three (with James Cagney , hilarious !!!)

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## gustav (Aug 13, 2020)

Certainly kind of a Science Fiction Movie, but interesting aviation and war aspects: The Final Countdown


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## Tzigy (Aug 13, 2020)

Dark Blue World imho one of the best WW2 aviation movies


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## davparlr (Aug 13, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> "Bridges at Toko Ri" featured the F9F-5, F2H-3, AD-4 and of course, Mickey Rooney's HO3S-1.


Interesting enough, in the original book the aircraft were the F2H Banshees. I guess the F9Fs were more available for the movie. Also, interestingly, on the scene of the carrier docking in Japan, all the F9Fs were the WW2 dark blue whereas the F2Hs were the more modern light gray and white. I think this is a transition period.

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## GrauGeist (Aug 13, 2020)

davparlr said:


> Interesting enough, in the original book the aircraft were the F2H Banshees. I guess the F9Fs were more available for the movie. Also, interestingly, on the scene of the carrier docking in Japan, all the F9Fs were the WW2 dark blue whereas the F2Hs were the more modern light gray and white. I think this is a transition period.


I also recall seeing a TBM in a couple of the scenes aboard the carrier. It was parked in back, but easy to spot.


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## wingnuts (Aug 13, 2020)

Catch 22, the original movie version.

Battle of Britain.

Piece of Cake. 

Tora Tora Tora.


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## wingnuts (Aug 13, 2020)

Watching "All Quiet on the Western Front" at the moment (SBS World movies, Australian TV) for the umpteenth time, brilliant movie.... no airplanes though.


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## GrauGeist (Aug 14, 2020)

In the 1930 release (not sure which version you're watching), the German lines were attacked by a DH.9A


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## TheMadPenguin (Aug 14, 2020)

"if you were to recommend and aviation based war movie. What would it be and why? "
NOT "Air Strike".
NOT "Pearl Harbor".
Hot Shots I & II would be better, at least they're supposed to not be taken seriously.
But on the plus side: Flyboys and Tora! Tora! Tora!

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## VintageIron (Aug 14, 2020)

"Tora Tora Tora" and "Battle of Britain" for accuracy, and general effort put into production, ( In BoB, can you imagine being on set behind scenes listening to Douglas Bader and Adolf Galland talk to one another amongst others..)

For films that are aviation related but are more dramatic, yet are better at conveying the sense of peril, war time urgency, humanity:
"Command Decision", "Dambuster's", "12 O'Clock High", "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" ( I still get hyped watching the scenes in 30 Seconds Over Tokyo, where the B-25's are running their engines up to take off power with he brakes on while first attempting the landing field short take off's.), and "Memphis Belle".

Then there are the propaganda films:
"Air Force" ( kinda surprised it wasn't mentioned, early B-17's, with Harey Carey Sr. and Paul Garfield, the scene in flight while they listen to FDR's Declaration of War speech, Harey Carey says " I hope he tells us something about the Philippines, my boy is stationed at Clark Field" while Paul Garfield is cleaning a 1911 and smoking a cigarette. At the end of the movie when the aircraft both Army and Navy of many types are taking to attack the Japanese invasion fleet.

"Dive Bomber" with Errol Flynn, is a good "just before the war film", just looking at what's going on in the background to see the state of pre-war.

"God is My Co-Pilot", again, a drama, but my pick over "Flying Tigers".

But for a WWII drama film, it's hard to beat " Best Years of our Lives", truly an excellent film, Hollywood at it's best.

Now the movie that I had the most anticipation for but felt like the film was lacking, "Dunkirk", had I the video editing skills, I would take just the aviation scenes from the movie, and switch them to B&W, then insert the scenes into the 1958 version of "Dunkirk" with John Mills, to me that version is superior to the latest release, it was just lacking aviation scenes.

For non-aviation:

"The Longest Day"
"Fury"
"Patton"
"Saving Private Ryan"
"Kellys Heroes" on it's 50th anniversary.
"In Harm's Way"

*Adding:
"In which we Serve" a very good WWII production on the British navy, the movie itself is a time capsule, and it does feature some very good aviation footage of a JU-88.

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## GrauGeist (Aug 14, 2020)

TheMadPenguin said:


> But on the plus side: Flyboys...


While that movie had a great storyline and plenty of visual potential, it fell far short of the mark CGI-wise.
When the producer was asked why all the triplanes were red, he responded "so everyone knew who the Germans were".

Truth be told, few German or Austrian fighters were red and virtually no two aircraft were alike. They were colorful and unique, even factory-fresh crates were in four or five color lozenge camouflage and it was a shame that the movie did not expand on that...

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## swampyankee (Aug 14, 2020)

_Catch-22_

and _M.A.S.H._


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## davparlr (Aug 14, 2020)

PFVA63 said:


> When I was younger the 1st time I saw "Dawn Patrol" with Erol Flynn, David Niven and Basil Rathbone it had a big effect on me. The scene where the squadron commander laments about how hard it is to find the words for his letters to the next of kin of all the lost pilots, and how his assistant notes that "No matter how you word it, it'll break their hearts just the same" (or something along those lines) still sticks in the back of my mind every time there is talk of military action, to this day


I just watched Dawn Patrol and, for a movie in 1938, it apparently had rotary engines in those planes. At least they kept burping the engines like you have to do on a rotary as they only had two speeds, all on and all off. I never actually saw the engine just heard the burping and that could be simulated, but that would be a very impressive attention to detail. Were there that many rotarys around in 1938?


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## herman1rg (Aug 14, 2020)

Earlier this year I saw 1917 in the cinema and that is a very good War film (one German biplane makes an appearance)


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## pgf_666 (Aug 14, 2020)

N4521U said:


> Band of Brothers..........
> Enemy at the Gate............
> Finding Private Ryan............
> 1917.................................................
> There is No good side to war!





N4521U said:


> Band of Brothers..........
> Enemy at the Gate............
> Finding Private Ryan............
> 1917.................................................
> There is No good side to war!


Well, in my opinion, the only good war was the Russo-Japanese War of 1906. Why? Because thanks to Teddy R. (he got a Nobel for this), it never happened....

As to Aviation themed flicks, not yet mentioned is 'God is my Co-pilot', My pop was acquainted with Scott, and didn't particularly like him, but his struggles to get the film made, and then shown, would make a good movie all by itself (;^)>


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## Gekko13 (Aug 17, 2020)

A previous post mentioned the Colonel Kato film (available on YouTube, free and dubbed). It is an excellent glimpse into the life of a true ace. I definitely recommend it for the flying sequences of REAL Ki-43's !!! WW2 buffs who have only seen Hollywood productions will be surprised to learn that the IJAAF did not fly T-6's in combat (LOL).


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## XBe02Drvr (Aug 17, 2020)

Gekko13 said:


> WW2 buffs who have only seen Hollywood productions will be surprised to learn that the IJAAF did not fly T-6's in combat (LOL).


But the North Koreans and Chinese DID fly them in the Korean War. Captured Nationalist planes left behind by Chiang's people.

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## GrauGeist (Aug 17, 2020)

Considering so few A6Ms exist, even fewer D3As and no B5Ns, I think the producers did a good job with the converted AT-6 and BT-13 aircraft.
Especially at a time when CGI didn't exist and they turned out far better than some attempts in other popular movies.

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## XBe02Drvr (Aug 17, 2020)

CGI = Crappy Graphic Interpretation

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## XBe02Drvr (Aug 17, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> I think the producers did a good job with the converted AT-6 and BT-13 aircraft.


Especially since from all accounts I've seen, they're good flyers as well as decent reproductions. More than can be said for a lot of Hollywood reproduction aircraft.

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## GrauGeist (Aug 17, 2020)

XBe02Drvr said:


> Especially since from all accounts I've seen, they're good flyers as well as decent reproductions. More than can be said for a lot of Hollywood reproduction aircraft.


Quite a few converted BT-13s and AT-6s are still alive and well. I beleive the CAF has the majority of them, used for air shows.
Not sure what happened to the AT-6s (actually Harvard IVs) converted to Fokker D.XXIs for a Dutch film, though.


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## XBe02Drvr (Aug 17, 2020)

pgf_666 said:


> My pop was acquainted with Scott, and didn't particularly like him,


I've read his book and seen a video of an interview with him, and I don't particularly like him either. Seemed to think he was PIC and God was his FO. He got sent to CBI and became an AVG wannabe. And made the most of it. Got pretty good at tooting his own horn.


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## railroader (Aug 20, 2020)

No airplanes, but surprised nobody mentioned these.

The Sand Pebbles

The Big Red One

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## manta22 (Aug 20, 2020)

Adding to my previous comments regarding non-aviation movie choices- I recently saw two movies that were distinctly different. 
First, "A Walk In The Sun" regarded by many reviewers as "so authentic". People who rated this movie as "realistic" were never in the army. The cast is remarkable but the dialog is talk, talk, talk. No GIs ever sat around talking non-stop and John Ireland even talks to himself! The actors frequently point the muzzles of their rifles at one another and the music is absolutely stupid. It is obvious that no experienced infantryman was consulted as an advisor to this movie.
Second, "The Big Red One". Lee Marvin is the lead actor and a man who was actually a combat-experienced Marine and his experience is evident. It is a *far* better movie.
"Decision At Dawn" is an excellent movie, well worth watching. Oskar Werner gives a wonderful performance.
"Run Silent, Run Deep" is a classic submarine movie with top-notch performances by Clark Gable and Burt Lancaster.
"From Here To Eternity" takes place in peacetime Hawaii just before the attack on Pearl Harbor. Burt Lancaster again and Montgomery Clift. Frank Sinatra made a career comeback with this film.
Comments are welcome about my choices.


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## GregP (Aug 20, 2020)

The Planes of Fame still has a Vultee BT-15 converted into a Val for the 1970 Tora, Tora, Tora movie, and it still flies.







The dorsal fin and wheel pant are fiberglass. Actually, it usually makes our annual airshow ... except for the one cancelled this year due to Covid.

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## wingnuts (Aug 21, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> In the 1930 release (not sure which version you're watching), the German lines were attacked by a DH.9A


It was the 1979 version, there may have been aircraft in it at some point but I missed some bits (making coffee, toilet breaks etc.).


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## PlasticHero (Aug 21, 2020)

I have a file on my laptop of "Movies to Watch" which just got longer, thanks very much!! Piece of Cake by Derek Robinson is one of my all time favs. I can highly recommend the rest of his aviation novels. On the receiving end of aviation movies, the BBC series "Danger UXB" is a good series and is available on Amazon.

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## Navalwarrior (Aug 22, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> Considering so few A6Ms exist, even fewer D3As and no B5Ns, I think the producers did a good job with the converted AT-6 and BT-13 aircraft.
> Especially at a time when CGI didn't exist and they turned out far better than some attempts in other popular movies.





NevadaK said:


> This is heavily subjective, but here is my question.
> 
> The other day my son and I decided to watch Midway. My son is very much a film aficionado and I have a graduate minor concentration in film criticism so we usually watch movies with a sharp eye. Twenty minutes in, we both are under impressed by the movie and I made the comment that there were far better aviation war movies and we paused Midway to watch Twelve O'Clock High and Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo. One thing we both picked up on is that the soldiers/airman all acted like they new what war was and seemed invested differently than current actors do.
> 
> Made me wonder, if you were to recommend and aviation based war movie. What would it be and why?


Resp:
Older aviation: 12 O'Clock High, The 1970s Battle of Britain and the Bridges of Toko Ri
Recent aviation: Dunkirk
Older non-aviation: The Sand Pebbles, Band of Brothers,
Recent non-aviation: 1917 (yes !), Saving Private Ryan
- 12 O'Clock High due to being based on two Bomb Groups that suffered same issues... It also addressed leadership.
- Battle of Britain due to the cost of life and the pure determination of the people; same for Dunkirk.
- Bridges of Toko Ri covers the war that is over shadowed by WWII and Vietnam.
- The Sand Pebbles when the US Navy did everything . . . adapting to the situation at hand.
- Band of Brothers again addresses leadership . . . my favorite was when the senior Sgt gets a battlefield commission, and when this 2nd LT later accepts the surrender of a German general.
- Saving Private Ryan covers all aspects of the cost of human life . . . only leaving out the 'smell and concussion' of battle. I know when the movie ended at the Theater . . . everyone walked out in Silence. There was no doubt that it had an impact . . . leaving a lasting impression of war. Call it respect of that generation that few understood . . . until then.

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## NevadaK (Aug 22, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Older aviation: 12 O'Clock High, The 1970s Battle of Britain and the Bridges of Toko Ri
> Recent aviation: Dunkirk
> Older non-aviation: The Sand Pebbles, Band of Brothers,
> ...


Thanks NavalWarrior,

My uncle was a 2nd Lieutenant combat engineer in Omaha Beach on D-Day. The day before the invasion he was reassigned to another engineer unit as a field liaison and went ashore on the right side of the beachhead. His unit was on the left edge of the beach. Both units were out of the position. He went ashore with the second wave. When they landed, he was one of the first off the ship which (edited) was an LCI(L). Moments after stepping in the water the ship was hit by artillery and the remainder of troops were lost. He spent the remainder of the day traveling the length of the beach a number of times to coordinate between the engineering teams. I spoke with him him about Saving Private Ryan and whether it captured some of the atmosphere and he replied that it wasn’t loud enough, cold and wet, and you couldn’t ever capture the smell.

Late in life he was featured in a local documentary about D-Day

Visionalist

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## MiTasol (Aug 22, 2020)

EDIT - found the link and added it.

My top vote goes to a documentary shot by Damien Parer during the battle in 1943.  . It is real live footage of the battle, most of it shot by Parer standing up behind the pilot of a Beaufighter. Anything by Damien Parrer is worth watching -- he won an academy award for one of his docos.

The full doco used to be shown here every ANZAC day (Australia's remembrance day) until someone realized it showed RAAF and USAAF aircraft strafing people in lifeboats. As such it demonstrates that history is written by the victors and the myth that only the enemy committed atrocities is just a myth.

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## GrauGeist (Aug 22, 2020)

My uncle's sub was assigned picket duty off the coast of Japan late war and they were kept busy rescuing downed airmen - both Allied and Japanese.
On several occasions, Japanese did not want to be rescued and would wait 'til the sub got close and would open fire with their side-arm at sailors on the deck.
On one such occasion, there was a war correspondent aboard with a cameraman who captured the event and now, it's being taken out of context, oftentimes only showing the pilot in the water (alongside the boat) being shot.
So there can be a lot more to the story than what's being seen.

By the way, according to my uncle, the vast majority of Japanese (aviators and seamen) were grateful to be saved from the water.

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## Navalwarrior (Aug 22, 2020)

NevadaK said:


> Thanks NavalWarrior,
> 
> My uncle was a 2nd Lieutenant combat engineer in Omaha Beach on D-Day. The day before the invasion he was reassigned to another engineer unit as a field liaison and went ashore on the right side of the beachhead. His unit was on the left edge of the beach. Both units were out of the position. He went ashore with the second wave. When they landed, he was one of the first off the ship which IIRC was an LST. Moments after stepping in the water the ship was hit by artillery and the remainder of troops were lost. He spent the remainder of the day traveling the length of the beach a number of times to coordinate between the engineering teams. I spoke with him him about Saving Private Ryan and whether it captured some of the atmosphere and he replied that it wasn’t loud enough, cold and wet, and you couldn’t ever capture the smell.
> 
> ...


Resp:
Do you (or anyone) remember when CAPT Miller wouldn't let his Sgt be part of the assault of the 'lone' MG emplacement (near a bombed out radar station)? This occurred the day after he and his Sgt discussed the men they knew (and lost) the night they slept in the Church? I believe that Miller was tired of his men dying and was ready to end it all right then and there. That the discussion brought forth what he had been able to repress up until then. So he insisted that he would go up the middle. He left the Sgt out so he would be able to lead his men if he was killed. 
Every father in my neighborhood (except two, my father who was blind in his R eye, and the other served in Korea) served in some capacity during WWII. None, and I mean none, ever volunteered any discussion of their part. The one I remember most (found out later while in my 20s) was a Marine rifleman who fought in 3 campaigns; Guadalcanal, Tarawa and Pelelieu. He was in the process of climbing into a Duce and a Half when he slipped and broke his tail bone (full pack, extra ammo and M1 Garand). The trucks were taking the Marines to an LST . . . bound for Iwo Jima. Instead, he was put on a hospital ship destined for Hawaii. Every man in his company was killed! I was told by his daughter that he suffered from survivors' guilt. Most served in the Army, but there were two pilots; a Marine who flew F4F and F4U-1D and the other B-17s in Europe. In later years the Marine aviator began to talk about his experiences. But we were older then.

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## Navalwarrior (Aug 22, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> My uncle's sub was assigned picket duty off the coast of Japan late war and they were kept busy rescuing downed airmen - both Allied and Japanese.
> On several occasions, Japanese did not want to be rescued and would wait 'til the sub got close and would open fire with their side-arm at sailors on the deck.
> On one such occasion, there was a war correspondent aboard with a cameraman who captured the event and now, it's being taken out of context, oftentimes only showing the pilot in the water (alongside the boat) being shot.
> So there can be a lot more to the story than what's being seen.
> ...


Resp:
Yes, I remember reading, fairly recently . . . about a P-47 pilot who flew low and dropped his life raft to a downed Japanese pilot. The P-47 shot down three planes that day. However, it was many years after the end of WWII that he disclosed 'dropping the raft' to his wife. He kept it quiet because most Americans would not have understood. He told his wife that he 'just couldn't let him drown' as he couldn't face and explain to God why he didn't help him, when he could.

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## NevadaK (Aug 22, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Do you (or anyone) remember when CAPT Miller wouldn't let his Sgt be part of the assault of the 'lone' MG emplacement (near a bombed out radar station)? This occurred the day after he and his Sgt discussed the men they knew (and lost) the night they slept in the Church? I believe that Miller was tired of his men dying and was ready to end it all right then and there. That the discussion brought forth what he had been able to repress up until then. So he insisted that he would go up the middle. He left the Sgt out so he would be able to lead his men if he was killed.
> Every father in my neighborhood (except two, my father who was blind in his R eye, and the other served in Korea) served in some capacity during WWII. None, and I mean none, ever volunteered any discussion of their part. The one I remember most (found out later while in my 20s) was a Marine rifleman who fought in 3 campaigns; Guadalcanal, Tarawa and Pelelieu. He was in the process of climbing into a Duce and a Half when he slipped and broke his tail bone (full pack, extra ammo and M1 Garand). The trucks were taking the Marines to an LST . . . bound for Iwo Jima. Instead, he was put on a hospital ship destined for Hawaii. Every man in his company was killed! I was told by his daughter that he suffered from survivors' guilt. Most served in the Army, but there were two pilots; a Marine who flew F4F and F4U-1D and the other B-17s in Europe. In later years the Marine aviator began to talk about his experiences. But we were older then.


We had a pretty large extended family and In the 60’s we would have family reunions at Thanksgiving that pushed 100 people. More than half of the men were veterans of either WW1, WW2, Korea or Vietnam. There wasn’t a whole lot of talk about the wars back then other than references to some relatives who hadn’t come back, or a couple who “just weren’t the same”. I lived with my grandparents and they let me read all the old letters which gave me a different understanding of what had gone on. My uncle never really discussed the war until he was in eighties. Even then there were some things he wouldn’t discuss. My family members who fought the Japanese would never talk about what they had seen or done.

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## davparlr (Aug 22, 2020)

Our neighbor growing up was on the USS Laffey when it was on patrol as a radar picket ship, the closest one to Japan. Known as "the ship that would not die" it was featured on one of the "Dogfight" episodes. He was in the 5" turret that was struck by a Kamikaze. We were told that of the 25 men manning the turret, he and one other were the only ones to come out alive. My brother said that he never wanted to talk about it. Pix from Wiki.

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## Warbirdnutball (Aug 23, 2020)

Ok. Here I go:

In Harm's Way. Can't beat a good John Wayne movie
Dive Bomber with Errol Flynn. (Gotta love the pre-was Enterprise shots in the beginning)
Battle of Britain
The Dogfights series from history channel
Memphis Belle. Not the greatest but his favorite bomber. 
Wings of Eagles. Yes another Flick. 
Tora Tora Tora. 

Yeah, that'll do it.


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## Navalwarrior (Aug 23, 2020)

davparlr said:


> Our neighbor growing up was on the USS Laffey when it was on patrol as a radar picket ship, the closest one to Japan. Known as "the ship that would not die" it was featured on one of the "Dogfight" episodes. He was in the 5" turret that was struck by a Kamikaze. We were told that of the 25 men manning the turret, he and one other were the only ones to come out alive. My brother said that he never wanted to talk about it. Pix from Wiki.
> View attachment 592466





davparlr said:


> Our neighbor growing up was on the USS Laffey when it was on patrol as a radar picket ship, the closest one to Japan. Known as "the ship that would not die" it was featured on one of the "Dogfight" episodes. He was in the 5" turret that was struck by a Kamikaze. We were told that of the 25 men manning the turret, he and one other were the only ones to come out alive. My brother said that he never wanted to talk about it. Pix from Wiki.
> View attachment 592466


Resp:
I would like to add a positive note. One movie that describes the relationships among military men: "The Lost Battalion" during October 1918.
Maj Whittlesey to CAPT McMurty - "These Italians, Irish, Jews and Poles, they would never hire me as an attorney; we wouldn't be seen at the same events. But we will never, in our lives, enjoy the company of finer soldiers or better men then we do tonight!" A bond that few relationships can match.

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## Currell (Aug 24, 2020)

Murphy's War. Steve McQueen


NevadaK said:


> This is heavily subjective, but here is my question.
> 
> The other day my son and I decided to watch Midway. My son is very much a film aficionado and I have a graduate minor concentration in film criticism so we usually watch movies with a sharp eye. Twenty minutes in, we both are under impressed by the movie and I made the comment that there were far better aviation war movies and we paused Midway to watch Twelve O'Clock High and Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo. One thing we both picked up on is that the soldiers/airman all acted like they new what war was and seemed invested differently than current actors do.
> 
> Made me wonder, if you were to recommend and aviation based war movie. What would it be and why?





Schweik said:


> Dr. Strangelove is a good catch the aviation part of that, as in a strategic bomber raid and world war 3 was very well done.
> 
> Bridges of toko-ri I remember that when I think it was pretty good, were those f9f Panthers or f7f?
> 
> ...





Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> I would like to add a positive note. One movie that describes the relationships among military men: "The Lost Battalion" during October 1918.
> Maj Whittlesey to CAPT McMurty - "These Italians, Irish, Jews and Poles, they would never hire me as an attorney; we wouldn't be seen at the same events. But we will never, in our lives, enjoy the company of finer soldiers or better men then we do tonight!" A bond that few relationships can match.


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## Currell (Aug 24, 2020)

Murphy's War, a 1971 film starring Steve McQueen. He teaches himself to fly a Grumman OA-12 Duck! Currell


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## Navalwarrior (Aug 24, 2020)

Currell said:


> Murphy's War, a 1971 film starring Steve McQueen. He teaches himself to fly a Grumman OA-12 Duck! Currell


Resp:
Peter O'Toole, I believe was the wannabe pilot. It did have some good flying footage. Another good b/w one was 'God Is My Co-pilot.'

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## GrauGeist (Aug 24, 2020)

The J2F-6 that starred in Murphy's war (and Baa Baa Black Sheep) is on display at the USAF museum in Ohio.

Grumman OA-12 Duck > National Museum of the United States Air Force™ > Display

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## Currell (Aug 25, 2020)

Navalwarrior said:


> Resp:
> Peter O'Toole, I believe was the wannabe pilot. It did have some good flying footage. Another good b/w one was 'God Is My Co-pilot.'


You are correct: Peter O'toole...


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## drgondog (Aug 25, 2020)

Band of Brothers.

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## glennasher (Aug 25, 2020)

Not a movie, but the old NBC series "Victory at Sea" is pretty good. They cover a lot more than the Pacific or CBI, theaters, too. I drag that DVD set out whenever I get bored. The production quality is, of course, 1940's documentary quality, but the subjects are very good and interesting.

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## at6 (Aug 25, 2020)

"What Did You Do In The War Daddy"


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## TheMadPenguin (Aug 25, 2020)

glennasher said:


> Not a movie, but the old NBC series "Victory at Sea" is pretty good. They cover a lot more than the Pacific or CBI, theaters, too. I drag that DVD set out whenever I get bored. The production quality is, of course, 1940's documentary quality, but the subjects are very good and interesting.


If that's the one I think it is, then I have to disagree fiercely. The sound track was too loud and endless discords; the video was not adequate without the narration, so it got turned off about episode 3.

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## TheMadPenguin (Aug 25, 2020)

at6 said:


> "What Did You Do In The War Daddy"


"Well, your granddaddy shoveled shit in Louisiana "
...Patton, the movie and the history.

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## Admiral Beez (Oct 31, 2020)

Admiral Beez said:


> Nice!
> And whilst we're looking at aviation-related war movies starring Sir Michael Cain, when I was a lad I really enjoyed A Bridge Too Far.
> 
> 
> ...


Sean Connery passed today, age 90. My favourite Bond.

Sean Connery: James Bond actor dies aged 90

That leaves just two Knights from A Bridge Too Far; Sirs Anthony Hopkins and Michael Caine.

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## TheMadPenguin (Oct 31, 2020)

N4521U said:


> There is No good side to war!



Well ... there's the side that raises the glass, when it's over, and thanks God it's over!


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## manta22 (Oct 31, 2020)

Penguin;

The bad video transfer of "Victory At Sea" was not the fault of the series, it was a poor video production of a great series.

The patriotic series was originally produced by & shown on NBC-TV in the early Fifties. NBC even had their own orchestra back then. NBC has sure gone to hell since then.

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## XBe02Drvr (Oct 31, 2020)

manta22 said:


> NBC has sure gone to hell since


Not to mention broadcast TV in general. I don't even bother anymore.

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## manta22 (Oct 31, 2020)

davparlr said:


> Our neighbor growing up was on the USS Laffey when it was on patrol as a radar picket ship, the closest one to Japan. Known as "the ship that would not die" it was featured on one of the "Dogfight" episodes. He was in the 5" turret that was struck by a Kamikaze. We were told that of the 25 men manning the turret, he and one other were the only ones to come out alive. My brother said that he never wanted to talk about it. Pix from Wiki.
> View attachment 592466


The USS Laffey is on display in the harbor in Charleston, South Carolina, along with the old Yorktown (CV10). In that turret there is a dramatic presentation about the attack. It is well worth a visit!

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## XBe02Drvr (Oct 31, 2020)

manta22 said:


> In that turret there is a dramatic presentation about the attack. It is well worth a visit!


Two guys came out of THAT alive?? If anyone doubts the possibility of miracles....

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## davparlr (Oct 31, 2020)

XBe02Drvr said:


> Two guys came out of THAT alive?? If anyone doubts the possibility of miracles....


I don't know what his job was, but of course the turret usually goes down to the bottom of the ship, so probably he was below.


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## manta22 (Oct 31, 2020)

glennasher said:


> It seems most, if not all, of the "good" war movies have been mentioned already, but I'm partial to "A Bridge Too Far" as it was playing in the post theater when I went to Jump School at Ft. Benning, and I spent 3.5 years in the 82nd. Abn. Div. No doubt that colors my opinion 'slightly'. A few years ago, I gave away my VHS copy of that movie, and a copy of the book, to a nephew who had expressed interest in such things.



I re-watched "A Bridge Too Far" recently and it just reinforced my opinion of it- a confusing disjointed ensemble of film clips joined together haphazardly. Also, the military aspects of the small unit actions were absurd. That, plus my dislike for Dirk Bogard, clinches the deal- thumbs down!

Now, having said that, in honor of the 82nd ABN here is a photo of a St Mere Eglise stained-glass church window in Normandy that memorializes the American airborne troops. Notice the fine print at the bottom of the window. "They Have Come Back"

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## glennasher (Oct 31, 2020)

manta22 said:


> I re-watched "A Bridge Too Far" recently and it just reinforced my opinion of it- a confusing disjointed ensemble of film clips joined together haphazardly. Also, the military aspects of the small unit actions were absurd. That, plus my dislike for Dirk Bogard, clinches the deal- thumbs down!
> 
> Now, having said that, in honor of the 82nd ABN here is a photo of a St Mere Eglise stained-glass church window in Normandy that memorializes the American airborne troops. Notice the fine print at the bottom of the window. "They Have Come Back"




The whole of Market-Garden WAS a disjointed mess, just read anything written in unit archives or histories. It's probably not Cornelius Ryan's fault that they followed the book pretty closely, but since the whole thing was a horrible mess (this is NOT due to the troops, but the idiots who conceived the whole thing). The troops did what they could, with what they had. Everything was stacked against them from the start. It's a miracle they got so much accomplished under the circumstances.


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## manta22 (Oct 31, 2020)

Yes, but they could have made a coherent movie about a FUBAR operation.


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## TheMadPenguin (Oct 31, 2020)

manta22 said:


> Penguin;
> 
> The bad video transfer of "Victory At Sea" was not the fault of the series, it was a poor video production of a great series.
> 
> The patriotic series was originally produced by & shown on NBC-TV in the early Fifties. NBC even had their own orchestra back then. NBC has sure gone to hell since then.


I'd like to find an original. Hopefully the "music" track is different and not so loud compared to the voice.


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## manta22 (Oct 31, 2020)

TheMadPenguin said:


> I'd like to find an original. Hopefully the "music" track is different and not so loud compared to the voice.


Leonard Graves was the NBC announcer who voiced the series. He was perfect.


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## swampyankee (Oct 31, 2020)

_Paths of Glory_

_Glory_

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## TheMadPenguin (Oct 31, 2020)

manta22 said:


> Leonard Graves was the NBC announcer who voiced the series. He was perfect.


The voice and the spoken word was fine. The "music" was endless discords that grated my nerves totally. A recording/editing of the series without music at all would be a grand improvement.


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## drgondog (Nov 2, 2020)

TheMadPenguin said:


> The voice and the spoken word was fine. The "music" was endless discords that grated my nerves totally. A recording/editing of the series without music at all would be a grand improvement.


Amazing that each of us have such different impressions. For me, the score for 'Victory at Sea' was the best of all time for a series.


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## Peter Gunn (Nov 2, 2020)

drgondog said:


> Amazing that each of us have such different impressions. For me, the score for 'Victory at Sea' was the best of all time for a series.


It was impressive I agree, but if we're talking just the musical score, Band of Brothers is VERY tough to beat, every part of that score can choke me up if I'm not careful.

Here's proof, watch that and not be touched --> 

That's Louis Norley's daughter in the back seat. The five guys lined up in front of the wing at (appropriately 51 seconds) gets me EVERYTIME.

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## drgondog (Nov 2, 2020)

Aviation? Twelve O'Clock High and Command Decision - but BoB was pretty good at communicating the intensity and desperation of the struggle.

Non Aviation - for me, Band of Brothers.

Score - Victory at Sea and Band of Brothers - but I grew up on VAS in the 50's and never, ever get tired of listening to it. It's funny however that the score for Gladiator always reminds me of a theme suited for different stages of 8th AF

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## TheMadPenguin (Nov 2, 2020)

drgondog said:


> Amazing that each of us have such different impressions. For me, the score for 'Victory at Sea' was the best of all time for a series.


I figured that had to be the case from your previous "dislike". I wonder if we have the same publication: 4 DVDs? 3? VHS? "Collectors' Edition"?


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## drgondog (Nov 2, 2020)

TheMadPenguin said:


> I figured that had to be the case from your previous "dislike". I wonder if we have the same publication: 4 DVDs? 3? VHS? "Collectors' Edition"?


I didn't intentionally give you a dislike - I will look and change.

Just looked - no 'dislike' from me or anyone that I could see.


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## TheMadPenguin (Nov 2, 2020)

drgondog said:


> I didn't intentionally give you a dislike - I will look and change.
> 
> Just looked - no 'dislike' from me or anyone that I could see.



Sorry for the Senior Moment; it's Disagree not a Dislike.


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## Peter Gunn (Nov 2, 2020)

TheMadPenguin said:


> I figured that had to be the case from your previous "dislike". I wonder if we have the same publication: 4 DVDs? 3? VHS? "Collectors' Edition"?


I actually agree with you, the sound on the DVD was terrible, it seems the technicians in charge of that part of the transfer were out to lunch that day. My copy is almost un-listenable... if that's a word. Pity too because as drgondog says, it's a magnificent score.

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## XBe02Drvr (Nov 2, 2020)

Peter Gunn said:


> I actually agree with you, the sound on the DVD was terrible, it seems the technicians in charge of that part of the transfer were out to lunch that day.


Common problem with today's digital "remasters" of original analog recordings. Audio recorded in the early days of monaural vaccum tube "Hi-Fi" was mixed and reproduced for playback on machines with a much "rounder" sound and lacking the extreme audio bandwidth and dynamic range of today's solid state surround sound powerhouses.
Today's hotshot young digital audio engineers tend to listen to the "old stuff" and complain it lacks "punch" and "presence" and then set out to correct those deficiencies. The result tends to sound "jarring" and "discordant" to us geezers listening on anything less than studio grade equipment, or with consumer or "prosumer" class speakers or headsets. We don't WANT to hear every little harmonic and sub-harmonic and stage reverb we never heard in our youth.
I grew up listening to a particular performance of Tchaikovsky's _1812 Overture _by Antal Dorati and the Philadelphia Philharmonic, complete with live recorded cannon fire and carillon bells, on my parents' 1955 monophonic, vaccum tube Magnavox "Hi-Fi". A couple weeks ago I heard the same recording "digitally remastered" on a neighbor's $5000 home theater system and thought it sucked. He had snagged it out of the bargain bin at Walmart and thought he'd made a great find. Rare for me, I kept my mouth shut.


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## TheMadPenguin (Nov 2, 2020)

"Rare for me, I kept my mouth shut. "
We may have similar afflictions...


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## XBe02Drvr (Nov 2, 2020)

TheMadPenguin said:


> "Rare for me, I kept my mouth shut. "
> We may have similar afflictions...


The curse of our generation.
"Stop, hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look what's goin' down!"
(The *other *meaning of B.S.)

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## GrauGeist (Nov 2, 2020)

Ages ago (like, many decades), I installed car audio systems and to sound-check and/or adjust the equalizer-booster settings (and fader), I used classical music that was direct audio recorded, not digitally remastered or "enhanced" with Dolby.
Some of the works I used was Tocata and Fuge in D minor, movements from the Jupiter symphony and even parts of Die Valkure.
The guys would rib me, but if the system could handle such complex music, it could handle anything.

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## drgondog (Nov 2, 2020)

Peter Gunn said:


> I actually agree with you, the sound on the DVD was terrible, it seems the technicians in charge of that part of the transfer were out to lunch that day. My copy is almost un-listenable... if that's a word. Pity too because as drgondog says, it's a magnificent score.


My copy has a superb sound track....


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## TheMadPenguin (Nov 2, 2020)

drgondog said:


> My copy has a superb sound track....


So I repeat: What version do you have? I seek info by which I can get what you have. I'd love to have a copy with decent (or no) music.


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## drgondog (Nov 2, 2020)

TheMadPenguin said:


> So I repeat: What version do you have? I seek info by which I can get what you have. I'd love to have a copy with decent (or no) music.


DVD commercially sold 10-15 years ago. I would have to dig it out. When I have time I will.


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## Juha3 (Nov 4, 2020)

A late answer
-_BoB_,
_-The Way to the Stars_, almost no aerial scenes but on the life at a RAF station, later given to the USAAF and nearby pub. It gives good picture how expensive the war was in human lives and how the war "ate" m3n.
_-Angels One Five_, saw it as a child, one of the reasons I began to be interesting in the history of aerial warfare. That was over half a century ago but I still remember a vic of Hurricanes and a smoking rear fuselage of a crashed Bf 110.
_-Blue Max_, WWI movie, if the son/daughter is mid teen or older, some sexy scenes. Also plenty of aerial combat
_-Dark Blue World_ was not bad
_-Dunkirk_, also its air combat parts are good.

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## wingnuts (Nov 5, 2020)

Admiral Beez said:


> Sean Connery passed today, age 90. My favourite Bond.
> 
> Sean Connery: James Bond actor dies aged 90
> 
> That leaves just two Knights from A Bridge Too Far; Sirs Anthony Hopkins and Michael Caine.


Sean Connery was in the movie "The Longest Day" as Pvt Flanagan which came out in 1962, the same years as "Dr No".


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## Admiral Beez (Nov 5, 2020)

wingnuts said:


> Sean Connery was in the movie "The Longest Day" as Pvt Flanagan which came out in 1962, the same years as "Dr No".


Ah yes, you cann’a storm the beach without your Piper.

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## Akuma (Jun 19, 2021)

NevadaK said:


> This is heavily subjective, but here is my question.
> 
> The other day my son and I decided to watch Midway. My son is very much a film aficionado and I have a graduate minor concentration in film criticism so we usually watch movies with a sharp eye. Twenty minutes in, we both are under impressed by the movie and I made the comment that there were far better aviation war movies and we paused Midway to watch Twelve O'Clock High and Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo. One thing we both picked up on is that the soldiers/airman all acted like they new what war was and seemed invested differently than current actors do.
> 
> Made me wonder, if you were to recommend and aviation based war movie. What would it be and why?


'The Fallen', a little known, independently made film that is the most accurate depiction of the American experience of ground combat in the European theater to date that I have seen so far. Worth an 'Honorable Mention' is 'Memorial Day' (2012).
The HBO movie 'The Pacific' is unsuitable for younger viewers; in fact it is actually 'toned down' by the film makers as an accurate depiction was considered unsuitable for older viewers.

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## Schweik (Jun 20, 2021)

Akuma said:


> 'The Fallen', a little known, independently made film that is the most accurate depiction of the American experience of ground combat in the European theater to date that I have seen so far. Worth an 'Honorable Mention' is 'Memorial Day' (2012).
> The HBO movie 'The Pacific' is unsuitable for younger viewers; in fact it is actually 'toned down' by the film makers as an accurate depiction was considered unsuitable for older viewers.


I looked that one up and it sounds excellent, but it's apparently not available anywhere in the US for (legal) viewing. I was ready to pay $$$ to watch it on Amazon or whatever because a good war movie is a rare pleasure. The plot of this one sounds superb. I guess I'll have to pursue some other clandestine method if I want to watch it which is a shame because I'd like to throw the filmmakers a bone...


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## Akuma (Jun 20, 2021)

Schweik said:


> I looked that one up and it sounds excellent, but it's apparently not available anywhere in the US for (legal) viewing. I was ready to pay $$$ to watch it on Amazon or whatever because a good war movie is a rare pleasure. The plot of this one sounds superb. I guess I'll have to pursue some other clandestine method if I want to watch it which is a shame because I'd like to throw the filmmakers a bone...


The Fallen (2004) directed by Ari Taub. Available at Amazon DVD movies. Also available on ebay but those are from overseas sellers.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 20, 2021)

Just looked up "The Fallen" on Amazon and it is available:

Amazon product


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## Schweik (Jun 20, 2021)

Ah cheers, maybe I'll just order the DvD. I generally prefer not to mess with other alternatives.


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## GrauGeist (Jun 20, 2021)

Schweik said:


> Ah cheers, maybe I'll just order the DvD. I generally prefer not to mess with other alternatives.


lol...just as I posted that, I realized you may have meant streaming!


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## Schweik (Jun 20, 2021)

Seems to be available as a DvD cheap, hopefully not one of those 'region restricted' ones...


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## Schweik (Jun 20, 2021)

GrauGeist said:


> lol...just as I posted that, I realized you may have meant streaming!


What can I say I'm infected by the 'instant gratification' culture, unfortunately lol

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## Akuma (Jun 20, 2021)

Schweik said:


> Seems to be available as a DvD cheap, hopefully not one of those 'region restricted' ones...


I gave up on region restricted a long time ago. Whenever I replace my players I shop for the 'All Region' types.


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## cvairwerks (Jun 21, 2021)

For those that are L-Bird lovers, Mission over Korea has a bit of original Korean War L-5 footage. The movie itself is not that good, but the combat footage is worth sitting thru it.


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## wingnuts (Jun 22, 2021)

I really like "Murphy's War" with Peter O'Toole and the Grumman J2F Duck, it has an excellent story and great flying sequences. Murphy's War - Wikipedia

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## Akuma (Jun 22, 2021)

wingnuts said:


> I really like "Murphy's War" with Peter O'Toole and the Grumman J2F Duck, it has an excellent story and great flying sequences. Murphy's War - Wikipedia


I have seen a number of movies showing seaplanes and flying boats taking off and landing on water; I find the scene of the J2F in 'Murphy's War' when he's trying to take off the most dramatic and visually impressive of all of those.

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## special ed (Jun 22, 2021)

I still like "Battleground" (1949) for It's portrayal of comradeship, diversity, training and spirit. It shows fear, and overcoming that fear, as well as the cowardice in some. For the younger viewers, there is no graphic blood and guts but death and loss is there. It is however an old B&W film but the equipment is authentic. The theme of the plot is Battle of the Bulge and my favorite line is when a kitchen G.I. is given an M.1 on the way up front says, "How does this work? I ain't fired anything since the 03." The other G.I. says, "This is a clip fed, gas operated, semi automatic. .30 caliber..." "Look, yuh ain't selling it to me, how does it work?" " Oh, you just pull this back, push in the clip and it's ready."

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## cvairwerks (Jun 22, 2021)

Akuma said:


> I have seen a number of movies showing seaplanes and flying boats taking off and landing on water; I find the scene of the J2F in 'Murphy's War' when he's trying to take off the most dramatic and visually impressive of all of those.


Try the opening sequence for Always....big screen and good sound system will make it pop for you....

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## swampyankee (Jun 22, 2021)

There were some great flying sequences in _Catch-22_, including the massed B-25 takeoff.

In any case, _Path of Glory_ should be on any war movie should-watch list. I'd probably add _The Deer Hunter_. and _Enemy at the Gates_

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## GrauGeist (Jun 22, 2021)

While it's not WWII, the movie "Gettysburg" was well done.
I recall hearing (shortly after it was released) that "if it had been any more detailed, CNN would have covered it".

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## wlewisiii (Jun 22, 2021)

Not sure it it's been mentioned but one of the greatest WWII movies was a 1959 West German film called "Die Brücke" (The Bridge) about 7 16 year old boys defending a worthless bridge in their village at the end of WWII. Only one survives in the end. The end credits say: 'This event occurred on April 27, 1945. It was so unimportant that it was never mentioned in any war communique.'

Absolutely devastating picture of war from the romance of children to the reality of meaningless death.

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## Peter Gunn (Jun 22, 2021)

special ed said:


> I still like "Battleground" (1949) for It's portrayal of comradeship, diversity, training and spirit. It shows fear, and overcoming that fear, as well as the cowardice in some. For the younger viewers, there is no graphic blood and guts but death and loss is there. It is however an old B&W film but the equipment is authentic. The theme of the plot is Battle of the Bulge and my favorite line is when a kitchen G.I. is given an M.1 on the way up front says, "How does this work? I ain't fired anything since the 03." The other G.I. says, "This is a clip fed, gas operated, semi automatic. .30 caliber..." "Look, yuh ain't selling it to me, how does it work?" " Oh, you just pull this back, push in the clip and it's ready."


One of my favorite war movies as well, also if I'm not mistaken they used actual combat recorded either during the real BotB or sometime near that. Distant artillery especially and I think the small arms is all the real MacCoy.

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## GrauGeist (Jun 22, 2021)

wlewisiii said:


> Not sure it it's been mentioned but one of the greatest WWII movies was a 1959 West German film called "Die Brücke" (The Bridge) about 7 16 year old boys defending a worthless bridge in their village at the end of WWII. Only one survives in the end. The end credits say: 'This event occurred on April 27, 1945. It was so unimportant that it was never mentioned in any war communique.'
> 
> Absolutely devastating picture of war from the romance of children to the reality of meaningless death.


Is that the one where the boys were led by an old man of the volkssturm armed only with Panzerfausts?

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## wlewisiii (Jun 22, 2021)

Yeah, the old guy wants to buy time till the engineers can blow up the bridge but gets killed and then the Americans show up and most of the kids are killed before the Americans retreat after a tank is destroyed. Then the engineers show up and call the kids idiots which leads to more gun fire and only one surviving traumatized kid.

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## GrauGeist (Jun 22, 2021)

wlewisiii said:


> Yeah, the old guy wants to buy time till the engineers can blow up the bridge but gets killed and then the Americans show up and most of the kids are killed before the Americans retreat after a tank is destroyed. Then the engineers show up and call the kids idiots which leads to more gun fire and only one surviving traumatized kid.


Ok, I saw it ages ago.
It is certainly worth watching!

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## Akuma (Jun 22, 2021)

GrauGeist said:


> While it's not WWII, the movie "Gettysburg" was well done.
> I recall hearing (shortly after it was released) that "if it had been any more detailed, CNN would have covered it".


There are a number of good scenes in that movie. One of my favorites is when the Sergeant is complaining to the Colonel that as their Commander, he should not be down in the dust leading his horse like an ordinary infantryman.

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## Peter Gunn (Jun 22, 2021)

Don't know if it's been mentioned but "Cross of Iron" with James Coburn, James Mason and Maximillian Schell is a good one too.

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## rob23 (Jul 1, 2021)

Zippythehog said:


> It's been a while since I've seen it, but, I'm pretty sure it's all navy birds- no P-80s or F-86s that I can recall. However, I might not be able to remember them for the sight of Grace Kelley. She just keeps stealing the scene-even when she isn't in it...


It's all Panthers, a few AD's and a HO3S.


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## VintageIron (Mar 7, 2022)

If you've not seen The Dambusters on Blu-Ray, you might check it out, as many times as I've seen the movie in the past, I enjoyed the sharper visuals, and audio improvements, those Rolls-Royce engines...

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## herman1rg (Mar 7, 2022)

VintageIron said:


> If you've not seen The Dambusters on Blu-Ray, you might check it out, as many times as I've seen the movie in the past, I enjoyed the sharper visuals, and audio improvements, those Rolls-Royce engines...


The non-censorship of Guy Gibson's Dog's name

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## ARTESH (Mar 20, 2022)

Anything except Iranian garbage propaganda ones.

I can name a dozen from different countries ...

Minefield (Danish War Movie) could be another great war movie about children soldiers and their fates ...

Katyn (Polish War Movie) about genocides and war crimes ...

So many more to mention ... But I watch these 2 on a regular monthly basis.


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## The Basket (Mar 20, 2022)

Transformers the Movie from 1986.


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## ARTESH (Mar 20, 2022)

I forgot to mention the Italian war movie about the Al-alamein battle.


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## SaparotRob (Mar 20, 2022)

The Empire Strikes Back.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 20, 2022)

SaparotRob said:


> The Empire Strikes Back.

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## The Basket (Mar 20, 2022)

Zulu.

Of course.

Anything to show the bravery and glory of the British Empire.

The Empire did strike back.

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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 20, 2022)

The Basket said:


> Zulu.
> 
> Of course.
> 
> ...



I think Mel Gibson’s The Patriot is a much better portrayal of the glory of the British Empire.

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## The Basket (Mar 20, 2022)

Research Mel Gibson.

You will find exactly what type of hero he is.

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## Escuadrilla Azul (Mar 20, 2022)

Commandos, from 1968 with Lee van Cleef. I liked very much long time ago when I saw it.









Commandos (1968) - IMDb


Commandos: Directed by Armando Crispino. With Lee Van Cleef, Jack Kelly, Giampiero Albertini, Marino Masé. During World War II, an Italian-American commando outfit disguised as an Italian Army unit is parachuted behind Axis lines in North Africa.




www.imdb.com


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## The Basket (Mar 20, 2022)

I sadly cannot say my military service was either glorious or splendid.

But I do know what tired and hungry and fatigued and exhausted means.

If a war film isn't wall to wall blood and guts then is it really a war film?

Sanitized for the general public.

My favourite or at least most memorable film is Once Were Warriors starring Boba Fett.

It is so real. Absolutely terrible real. It's a horror film because it deals with real events and the true monsters are not werewolves but ourselves.

I doubt if will ever watch it again.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Mar 20, 2022)

The Basket said:


> Research Mel Gibson.
> 
> You will find exactly what type of hero he is.



I never said he was a hero, just the movie better portrays the glory you so speak of.


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## Escuadrilla Azul (Mar 20, 2022)

The Basket said:


> Research Mel Gibson.
> 
> You will find exactly what type of hero he is.


That's the usual debate of separating the man from the artist.

Is Mel Gibson a PoS as a person? Don't know him but by his public opinions and acts, probably.

As an actor and director, is he worth? For me yes, I absolutly enjoy many of his films on either side of the camera.

I prefer to separate the author from its plays.


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## tyrodtom (Mar 20, 2022)

If I researched every actor, and stayed away from the A-hole's movies, I probably wouldn't be watching many movies.

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## rob23 (Mar 21, 2022)

Thought of a couple more non-aviation related, Battleground and To Hell and Back. To Hell and Back was Audie Murphy's story, though it is quite sanitized. Murphy was amazingly fearless. Battleground was from 1949, I think, I could look it up, yes, '49 and is about the 101st at Bastogne. I've seen both several times and still get sucked in if they are on.

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## at6 (Mar 21, 2022)

ARTESH said:


> I forgot to mention the Italian war movie about the Al-alamein battle.


Is that the one where all of the actors say little and have their hands up?


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## special ed (Mar 21, 2022)

rob23 said:


> Thought of a couple more non-aviation related, Battleground and To Hell and Back. To Hell and Back was Audie Murphy's story, though it is quite sanitized. Murphy was amazingly fearless. Battleground was from 1949, I think, I could look it up, yes, '49 and is about the 101st at Bastogne. I've seen both several times and still get sucked in if they are on.


Both excellent and capture the personalities and comradeship of the G.I. with out the gore.

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## AMCKen (Mar 21, 2022)

Only one earlier mention of '633 Squadron'?








633 Squadron (1964) | Full Movie | w/ Cliff Robertson, George Chakiris, Maria Perschy, Harry Andrews, Donald Houston


War | Drama | Action | UK/USA | English | Colour | 91min w/ Cliff Robertson, George Chakiris, Maria Perschy, Harry Andrews, Donald Houston An RAF squadron is assigned to knock out a German rocket fuel factory in Norway, which is part of the Nazi effort to launch rockets on England. 633 Squadron...




ok.ru

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## Barrett (Mar 21, 2022)

What Schweik said. Depends entirely on the child's age--huge difference between, say, 7 and 17.
But
For ANYBODY contemplating a military venture, let alone a career, I'd close nominations with
_PATHS OF GLORY._
It should be mandatory viewing annually at every military academy.

To quote a longtime friend, "My brother was an expendable asset and the U.S. Government expended him somewhere across a line on a map."

Aviation just FWIW:
(None from WW I though Blue Max has The Towel Scene, for young adult males...)
Battle of Britain
Task Force
The Hunters
Flight of the Intruder
(I'd like to recommend a combat helo movie but none I recall were specifically devoted to choppers. So I'll go with Black Hawk Down, another Message Film.)

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## special ed (Mar 21, 2022)

Battle of Britain and Tora! Tora! Tora! are my top flying WW2 movies. A flying movie one can take a date to is "Always." Enough romance for the date and lots of flying, with no war stuff, for the guys. Some humor, too. It is basically a remake of the 1943 black & white "A Guy Named Joe" which had a non believable plot but plenty of early wartime fighters.

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## VintageIron (Mar 22, 2022)

Today, March 22nd, some good movies on TCM today, Air Force, Thirty Seconds over Tokyo, the scene in Air Force when FDR is speaking to Congress,  the scene when the B-17 throttles up to make it's emergency take off, but the montage of Allied aircraft responding to the call to attack the Japanese convoy shows several aircraft. In Thirty Seconds.. the practicing of short field take offs, the B-25's engines screaming and pulling against the brakes.. " Brother that take off was strictly for the birds..you took off like an old lady in a high wind".


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## special ed (Mar 22, 2022)

And the movie just before "Air Force" is "Battleground." Watch for my favorite line where the non combat G.I. is told how to use the M-1 Garand on his way to the front.


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## NevadaK (Mar 22, 2022)

VintageIron said:


> Today, March 22nd, some good movies on TCM today, Air Force, Thirty Seconds over Tokyo, the scene in Air Force when FDR is speaking to Congress, the scene when the B-17 throttles up to make it's emergency take off, but the montage of Allied aircraft responding to the call to attack the Japanese convoy shows several aircraft. In Thirty Seconds.. the practicing of short field take offs, the B-25's engines screaming and pulling against the brakes.. " Brother that take off was strictly for the birds..you took off like an old lady in a high wind".


I made my son watch Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo after we wasted an afternoon making fun of Pearl Harbor. A great movie.

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## rob23 (Mar 25, 2022)

special ed said:


> Battle of Britain and Tora! Tora! Tora! are my top flying WW2 movies. A flying movie one can take a date to is "Always." Enough romance for the date and lots of flying, with no war stuff, for the guys. Some humor, too. It is basically a remake of the 1943 black & white "A Guy Named Joe" which had a non believable plot but plenty of early wartime fighters.


I absolutely loved Always. A-26's, the PBY, some really funny stuff and some really poignant stuff. Great non war WWII movie, like Galaxy Quest is the best non Star Trek Star Trek movie.

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## NevadaK (Mar 26, 2022)

There’s a new movie on Netflix titled Bombardment about Operation Carthage. The flying scenes are quite good. Worth a watch.

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## Escuadrilla Azul (Mar 26, 2022)

NevadaK said:


> There’s a new movie on Netflix titled Bombardment about Operation Carthage. The flying scenes are quite good. Worth a watch.


Thanks for the recommendation.

Now I only have to have some time to see it. Perhaps by the centenary.


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## AMCKen (Apr 11, 2022)

NevadaK said:


> There’s a new movie on Netflix titled Bombardment about Operation Carthage. The flying scenes are quite good. Worth a watch.











Operation Carthage - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## MiTasol (Apr 11, 2022)

_The mouse that roared _for some light relief.

Ukraine might currently be called the mouse that roared back.

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## GrauGeist (Apr 11, 2022)

MiTasol said:


> _The mouse that roared _for some light relief.
> 
> Ukraine might currently be called the mouse that roared back.


I was thinking the "Winter War" part 2

And oddly enough, the war between Finland and the Soviet Union was because the Soviets had "security concerns" and demanded Finland ceed territory to them to "create a buffer" and of course Finland told them to go take a flying eff at a rolling donut.

Why does this sound so familiar? It's like I just read about something like this recently...


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## MiTasol (Apr 11, 2022)

Darn it - I heard something like that as well.


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