# THE LEGEND OF JULIE-JEZEBEL



## FLYBOYJ (May 27, 2005)

In the 1950s many Anti-Submarine Warefare aircraft were being fitted with the AN/AQA-3 "Jezebel" acoustic search (passive sonar) and "Julie" echo-ranging (active sonar) gear, Commonly known as Julie-Jezebel, and its operators were known as "Julie-Jez" operators.

No one really knows where the name "Julie-Jezebel" came from, but I heard on two occasions that the people who developed the system would frequent a local "Strip Club." Dancing at this club was a young lady whose stage name was Julie Jezebel. If anyone else ever heard this story, please let us know!


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## pshaas (Feb 9, 2007)

In the mid-50's, the Naval Air Development Center, Johnsville, PA, was involved in the development of an explosive echo-ranging technique employing practice depth charges (PDC's) -- later known as Signals, Underwater Sound (SUS) -- and passive-listening sonobuoys to detect quiet submarines. 

One evening, between days of one of the program's technical reviews by visiting NAVAIR sponsors, some of the visitors took in the entertainment at The Wedge, a burlesque theater in nearby Philadelphia. A performer that evening was Julie Gibson, doing her "Dance of the Bashful Bride". The visitors were duly impressed , deciding that Julie "made passive boys (think: buoys!) go active." OK, it may be kind of a lame play on words , but that is how they arrived at naming the program Project JULIE.

Julie Gibson was subsequently apprised of the honor bestowed on her. More about Julie G. can be found at Java's Bachelor Pad: Julie Gibson .

JULIE was introduced into the Fleet in 1956, employing SUS and the AN/SSQ-2B sonobuoy, which was replaced in 1957 by the AN/SSQ-23.

JEZEBEL, the acoustic detection method using passive-listening sonobuoys, likely had its name -- somewhat oddly -- inspired by Biblical reference. In Kings 1, Jezebel, a queen of ancient Israel, was nothing but bad . She was (among other things) "a Betrayer", and it was likely that idea of betraying the presence of an enemy submarine through passive acoustic detection that gave this technique -- also in development at NADC -- its name.

NADC/Johnsville (later NADC/Warminster) was "realigned" as part of the new Naval Air Warfare Center (Aircraft Division) in 1992, and the Warminster facility closed in 1996, its remaining functions transferred to NAWC/AD's main location at NAS Patuxent River, MD. Historical info about NADC can be found at: NAWC Warminster Historical Information


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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 9, 2007)

Thank You very much for that information - I'm going to send it to some of my old Chiefs!!!!


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## lesofprimus (Feb 9, 2007)

Interesting stuff...


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## Matt308 (Feb 11, 2007)

Great story!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 12, 2007)

Yes very interesting.


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## caper_1 (Aug 3, 2008)

Hey gents. Thought you guys might find this interesting. It's one of her promotion posters that she autographed. Cheers.


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## FLYBOYJ (Aug 3, 2008)

OUTSTANDING!  Many thanks for the pic!!!!


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## solo (Aug 3, 2008)

Interesting story.


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## CAPT Mallard (Jun 18, 2010)

caper_1 said:


> Hey gents. Thought you guys might find this interesting. It's one of her promotion posters that she autographed. Cheers.



My experience with "Julie and Jezebel" began at Fleet Airborne Electronics Training Unit Atlantic, NAS Norfolk where in January 1966 as an ASW aircrew trainee I attended the ASW Equipment Operator course. This course was the first step following aviation electronic technician (AT) or ASW technician (AX) "A" school) in the P-2 and P-3 aircrew pipeline. The students were 19-20 year old males under training by fleet experienced petty officers supervised by a senior chief sonarman. With great ceremony each student was given his classified course materials in a heavy duty binder. At the direction of the senior chief. we were told to open the binder where we found glossy photos of the striippers Julie and Jezebel. I believe one of the photos was the Julie Gibson photo shown above. The senior chief then explained the history of Julie and Jezebel and how the ASW systems got named for the strippers. As a 19 year old E-3, I was very impressed.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 19, 2010)

Great Story -


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## ppopsie (Jun 19, 2010)

Thanks. I know some ex-P2V people and I think they will be pleased to learn this.


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## Dilbert (Aug 13, 2010)

Great story. I flew P-2's back in the '60's and used the Julie/Jezebel systems but had never heard this story. Thanks, I'm forwarding this information to all my ASW buddies who I'm sure have never heard this as well.
Thanks!!!


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## timshatz (Aug 13, 2010)

Those are real. Proof that they do exist outside of a doctor's office.


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 13, 2010)




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## pbgilley (Aug 16, 2010)

I have never heard the great story of Julie...I am vaguely familiar with the system as it was in the early rating manuals for AW. I heard of the biblical references to Jezebel and we were still referring to passive system as Jez. 
Thanks for bringing back old memories..

Pete Gilley AWC (ret) VP-23, VP-5, AW School


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## Ironside (Jan 7, 2011)

Julie was developed as an operational system largely by the Test,Development and Evaluation flight (TD&E) of 404 Squadron, Royal Canadian Air Force based at Greenwood, Nova Scotia with support by the Operational Research scientist from the Canadian Defence Research Board. My log book shows evaluation trials conducted off Bermuda in January of 1956.

My log book shows that we demonstrated the potential of this system on 27 November 1956 to a USN Admiral, Admiral Shea, if my memory serves me correctly. As I recall he got quite excited saying drop another one (a Practice Depth bomb containing aboout 2 pounds of explosive). This demo flight probably supported the adoption of this system by the USN. 

In April of 1956 I wrote the "Julie Manual", developed the training program and was the chief instructor.

In February of 1957 we trained RCAF crews from 404 and 405 Squadrons in GITMO. The following year this training was repeated at GITMO with crews frrom The RCN who flew Tracker aircraft and USN P2V7 crews. My log book shows that on 13 and 14 February I was a"screen" instructor on flights of Lt. Gregg, USN who flew P2V7 No. 175 and on 15 February of Lt Cdr Hubbard USN who flew P2V7 No. 172. Don't remenber what USN squadrons they came from. GITMO was an ideal training area because of the deep offshore water.

As for Jezebel, our TD&E flight, using the prototype equipment from Bell Labs, proved out the capability of this system which helped in this system becoming operational


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## FLYBOYJ (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks Ironside - the legend continues!!!!


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## dave mti (May 24, 2011)

question everyone, we are doing a documentary on the legendary Bayou Nightclub in Washington DC where julie Performed in the early 60's does anyone know if she is still alive and where she is ??? if so, please email me at [email protected]


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## Njaco (May 24, 2011)

Boy, this thread took a strange turn all of a sudden


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## Jezmonster (Nov 27, 2012)

Hi, I just joined this forum and was involved in these systems all my career. I also attended the advanced Jezebel Course in 1965 in Norfolk and received my course binder that had a black silouette of the stripper Jezebel as the cover. Can't say we had anything about Julie but we were already using and developing tactics for the Julie system in the RCAF at that time. 
I flew on all four VP/MP squadrons ( 404,405,407 415 ) during my career and when not flying spent most my career working for the Acoustic Data Analysis Centre (ADAC) .I was a founding member of that unit which was originally called "Jezebel Central" but we had to change the name for security reasons soon after we formed up in Haliax NS in 1967. Before I finally retired I spent 3 tours with ADAC hence my handle - Jezmonster>


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## FLYBOYJ (Nov 28, 2012)

Welcome Jezmonster!


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## Jezmonster (Nov 28, 2012)

Ironside said:


> Julie was developed as an operational system largely by the Test,Development and Evaluation flight (TD&E) of 404 Squadron, Royal Canadian Air Force based at Greenwood, Nova Scotia with support by the Operational Research scientist from the Canadian Defence Research Board. My log book shows evaluation trials conducted off Bermuda in January of 1956.
> 
> My log book shows that we demonstrated the potential of this system on 27 November 1956 to a USN Admiral, Admiral Shea, if my memory serves me correctly. As I recall he got quite excited saying drop another one (a Practice Depth bomb containing aboout 2 pounds of explosive). This demo flight probably supported the adoption of this system by the USN.
> 
> ...



This must have been the forerunner of Maritime Proving and Evaluation Unit (MP&EU) Right???
I think I remember studying your "Julie Manual" at 2(M)OTU in Summerside..


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## oldcrowcv63 (Dec 17, 2012)

I have forwarded this thread and info to my crew's Sensor 1 (acoustic operator) and others in my last squadron. (VP-93) Great stuff!


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## Chris O'Brien (Feb 6, 2016)

caper_1 said:


> Hey gents. Thought you guys might find this interesting. It's one of her promotion posters that she autographed. Cheers.


I first saw this poster many years ago. My Dad was in the RCN and was stationed in Washington DC as Naval Attaché back in the early '60s, and I remember him telling me about going (with my mother!) to a nightclub in Washington to see Julie, so I guess by that time the Julie/ASW connection had already been made. From Washington Dad went to serve in Halifax, Nova Scotia as the Senior Officer Afloat on the carrier, HMCS Bonaventure, known affectionately as "Bonnie". So that's why "Bonnie" is on the poster, and "VS 880", of course, refers to one of Bonnie's squadrons of Grumman Trackers. Here are some photos of VS 880 and Bonnie at sea with Trackers on the flight deck:

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## FLYBOYJ (Feb 6, 2016)

Welcome Chris! Thanks for your post!!!


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## fubar57 (Feb 6, 2016)

Welcome Chris, good story.


Geo


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## Chris O'Brien (Feb 6, 2016)

FLYBOYJ said:


> Welcome Chris! Thanks for your post!!!


'Twas a pleasure. I love this stuff!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 6, 2016)

Welcome aboard.


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## XBe02Drvr (Apr 4, 2022)

Just out of curiosity, is there any aspect of carrier aviation and airborne ASW that was invented in the US, and not handed to us by the Brits and Canucks? (other than the planes themselves, of course)

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## EwenS (Apr 4, 2022)

The concept of the expendable air launched sonobuoy can be traced back to May 1941 and a British Admiralty proposal which was subsequently developed by RCA in the US into a workable system. Avenger aircraft from the USS Bogue, used them to achieve the first sonobuoy assisted sub kill in June 1944 when they intercepted the Japanese sub I-52 in the Atlantic. 

Other aircraft also used them in WW2. For example, RAF Coastal Command Liberator aircraft from late 1944 used them under the code name “High Tea”.

Article here about US sonobuoy development


https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA597432.pdf



And here about the operation of JULIE & JEZEBEL and some other ASW systems from a Canadian site (you need to scan to near the bottom).


Radio Research Paper - Neptune Electronics Suite


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## EwenS (Apr 4, 2022)

XBe02Drvr said:


> Just out of curiosity, is there any aspect of carrier aviation and airborne ASW that was invented in the US, and not handed to us by the Brits and Canucks? (other than the planes themselves, of course)


Well the US can claim the first ever take off from a STATIONARY ship by Eugene Ely on 14 Nov 1910, followed by a first ever arrested landing, again on a stationary ship, on 18 Jan 1911. 

Britain’s Lieutenant Samson achieved the same take off feat on 10 Jan 1912 from HMS Africa. He surpassed that feat by achieving the first ever take off from a MOVING ship on 9 May 1912. And then on 2 Aug 1917 Britain’s Squadron Leader Dunning achieved the first ever deck landing on a MOVING ship.

So the early lead by the US was just as quickly given up But then the US didn’t have the urgency of a world war to gee it up!

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## XBe02Drvr (Apr 5, 2022)

EwenS said:


> But then the US didn’t have the urgency of a world war to gee it up!


Or the U-boat menace to strangle it to death. (X2!)

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