# The ol' Contrail Conspiracy thing (again)



## GrauGeist (Dec 7, 2009)

Alright everyone, pull the tin-foil hat chinstraps a bit tighter, unplug the phone from the wall and turn down the lights, it's time to talk a little about....

CONTRAILS!!

I came across this post over at FaceBook, in a group that's devoted to Cloud Photography. I just had to reply for a few reasons, but you'll notice that these deadly, malicious and sometimes downright pesky contrails mysteriously started during the 40's and I had to jump in and post my two cents worth (which nowdays is about $1.10 - adjusted for inflation)...

They start out by stating:


> Have you ever noticed strange long trails of a cloud like stream that slowly spreads out, that had come as a stream from a large plane or planes, some cris-crossing or some just on going parallel. Sometimes the colour has been orangy in the evening.
> 
> This is not jet trails, but chemicals trails, of expanding spray material, look like clouds as they slowly spread out, to fall slowly down to large populations in North America elesewhere. Lots of tests show toxic substances accumulated after awhile, like barium, fungus, toxic agents.
> This happened in tests over Minneapolis, Winnipeg, in the early 60's which was unclassified, proven true, as spraying toxins testing on people to find out results, just prior to the U.S. heading into the Vietnam War.
> ...


And go on to say:


> Curious. This has been going on since the 40's wirh admission by British American Canadian officials, scientists. It's very scary.
> In England many died, it was reported in an investigation, after many of these fly passes went over an area near London, forget the date, but highly unusual, --that so many would die in a short period after masses of streams fell down to the earth, were inhaled into lungs of many, causing coughing, spiitting blood, pnemonia, respitory deadly ailments, lesions, not being able to breathe, etc. Many in the hospital in a short period, many old, but a cross section too. It's happening. Look in Google 'search' on 'Chem-trails'.
> 
> *Website Address *(I removed the link, ask me for the site addy if you wish to see it)
> ...



And here's my reply:


> Naturally, it's been going on since the 40's, as high-altitude flight was made possible by advances in World War II combat aircraft, both bombers and fighters.
> 
> You'll find that altitudes where contrails are formed, have temperatures far below freezing and you introduce an internal combustion engine's exhaust, which has temperatures starting at 1,200 degrees (but can be as high as 12,000 - depending on engine type) combined with hydrocarbons wants to expand in that cold, dry environment. If you have any doubt about that, look at your vehicle's exhaust when you start it on a cold morning. That water vapor is the same thing, just not on a scale of a jet engine in sub-arctic temps.
> 
> ...



I didn't use exact specs with details, because I wanted to get a general idea across, but I suspect this might be a losing battle...

Ya' think?


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## wheelsup_cavu (Dec 7, 2009)

I see you are out there fighting windmills again GG...


Wheels


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## GrauGeist (Dec 7, 2009)

wheelsup_cavu said:


> I see you are out there fighting windmills again GG...
> 
> Wheels


Um...well...

Maybe 

I think the best thing to do is try and educate 'em, as most folks these days don't understand how things work.

They just go out and get into thier cars, oblivious to how it works. Aside starting it and adjusting the mirror occasionally, the only real technical knowledge they have, is where the cupholder is and where the gas goes.

Understanding how an internal combustion engine works can de-mystify a number of things...contrails included...


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## wheelsup_cavu (Dec 7, 2009)

Who knows GG maybe you'll get lucky and stumble across a reasonable set of conspiracy nuts. 

Good luck and keep us updated, I have a feeling this is going to get real interesting real fast. 


Wheels


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## jamierd (Dec 7, 2009)

good luck with this GG have a feeling it might be easier to teach your pet cat to cook the dinner but good luck anyway


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## beaupower32 (Dec 7, 2009)

I think ur just beating a dead horse there GG.


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## RabidAlien (Dec 7, 2009)

Man, I love how these nutball sites never can spell-check anything, nor can they provide proof of the "admission by British American Canadian officials, scientists." Unless its to link to another tinfoil hat site.


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## evangilder (Dec 7, 2009)

Good luck with that. I remember seeing a discussion in Russian over one of my F-22 vapor shots. One person described it as "magnesium particles falling off the airframe". LOL.


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## Ferdinand Foch (Dec 7, 2009)

GG, good luck! I wanna say your kinda crazy taking on a tin-foil hat brigade. But I'm gonna say you are one brave S.O.B. for doing this. Good luck, mate.


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## Erich (Dec 7, 2009)

have posted this in the past but a college town of bozo's, Ashland Oregon 45 miles from me has somehow delegated itself in my state as a no fly over town due to the scaredness of it's population of so called chem trails o the jets flying from Portland to Frisco and vice-versa. the twon is whacked anyway with new age culture from back in the 60's when I lived there, and the hippies of my age have stayed or moved back to put the town back in the stoner ages.

it's all a bunch of crock but this type of thinking is really invading the southern Orygun society


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## syscom3 (Dec 7, 2009)

evangilder said:


> .....One person described it as "magnesium particles falling off the airframe". ...




Thats actually quite origional.


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## timshatz (Dec 7, 2009)

Good luck on it Grau. The problem with your answer is it was logical, focused and accurate. The tin foil hat brigade will never believe it. You are obviously a paid agent of the govt. To them, you probably commute back and forth to work in a black helicopter.


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## evangilder (Dec 7, 2009)

Yep, I don't think they are going to let scientific facts get in the way...


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## Lucky13 (Dec 7, 2009)

Been smoking bad pot?


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## Njaco (Dec 7, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> Um...well...
> 
> Maybe
> 
> ...



When I went shopping with my ex one time to buy a car, her criteria was if the windshield washer fluid worked!

Have fun, GG! I love messing with these kinda dopes!


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## Matt308 (Dec 7, 2009)

I tend to agree with most here, GG. You are wasting your time unless you are just spoiling for a fight. They have already made up their minds and sound physics will never get in their way.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 7, 2009)

I love going toe to toe with these idiots as well as 9-11 conspiracy theorists. On another site some moron took a photo of a bunch of contrails over Syracuse NY and tried to say that the "spray" aircraft fly those patters for maximum coverage. I laid over his photo an IFR en route chart that shows all the Victor Airways in the area and explained what the chart was and what all the blue lines meant. His photo and the chart matched perfectly. Needless to say he never came back after being laughed off the site..


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## timshatz (Dec 7, 2009)

FLYBOYJ said:


> I love going toe to toe with these idiots as well as 9-11 conspiracy theorists. On another site some moron took a photo of a bunch of contrails over Syracuse NY and tried to say that the "spray" aircraft fly those patters for maximum coverage. I laid over his photo an IFR en route chart that shows all the Victor Airways in the area and explained what the chart was and what all the blue lines meant. His photo and the chart matched perfectly. Needless to say he never came back after being laughed off the site..



For every one you expose as a candidate for the Darwin Awards, there are another 10 lurking in the backround, arguing with themselves over posting or not (they generally don't) and forgetting to take their meds. 

They'll like roaches. For every one you see, there are another 10. And they'll, inevitable, survive a nuclear war.


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## timshatz (Dec 7, 2009)

Njaco said:


> When I went shopping with my ex one time to buy a car, her crieria was if the windshield washer fluid worked!
> !



Njaco, why oh why did you bother divorcing her. Should've told her to "Wait here while I get the car" (anywhere will do) and then just drive away. 

Come to think of it, leaving her in another country would probably be a better idea. Some place in Africa would be nice.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 7, 2009)

timshatz said:


> For every one you expose as a candidate for the Darwin Awards, there are another 10 lurking in the backround, arguing with themselves over posting or not (they generally don't) and forgetting to take their meds.
> 
> They'll like roaches. For every one you see, there are another 10. *And they'll, inevitable, survive a nuclear war*.



If they don't kill themselves first, trying to sneak into a concert or sports event(WWC), or by strapping a JATO charge to their 84 Camaro!


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## timshatz (Dec 7, 2009)

FLYBOYJ said:


> If they don't kill themselves first, trying to sneak into a concert or sports event(WWC), or by strapping a JATO charge to their 84 Camaro!



Just keeping them around for morbid curiousity and the knowledge that somewhere, somehow they'll do something that will entertain and give you a story that will start out, "I knew this guy once, complete idiot and he managed to delete himself from the great hard drive of life by...."


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## The Basket (Dec 7, 2009)

Er...wot?...Er....you joking?

Guys really believe this?

The main use...apart from porn...for the internet is for one idiot to disagree with the idiotic view of another idiot.

I exempt this forum of course!


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 7, 2009)

I actually got into a deep conversation about "chemtrails" with a close friend. I even showed them pics of pre WW2 contrails, but they did not let facts and reality stand in their way.

On the bright side, I feel better about myself!


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## gumbyk (Dec 7, 2009)

Apparently one of these thigns will counter-act the 'chem-trails'
Orgone Generators

...or a tin-foil hat


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Dec 7, 2009)

Dave, I think you've got boredom down to an art form man.


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## RabidAlien (Dec 7, 2009)

Okay...I'm guessin that the tin-foil hat brigades don't realize that those things are actually just frikkin flowerpots turned upside-down????


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## Bernhart (Dec 7, 2009)

bet the guy selling them makes lots of money


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## gumbyk (Dec 7, 2009)

looks like they are resin with a whole lot of metal shavings and swarf from a lathe/milling machine.

Yeah, definitely a good way to make some money of these nutjobs.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 7, 2009)

_I haven't noticed chemtrails in the skies over Costa Mesa and Irvine California since early May, 2004. Even when they were spraying in the previous months, I noticed that the chemtrails couldn't stick for very long before they disappeared. 

The sickening overcast, whiteout, and smog-laden air produced by chemtrail aerosol bombardment that aware observers around the nation have become accustomed to seeing for the past six years no longer survive in Orange County or Los Angeles County, California. I'm also confident that this improvement is occuring in other parts of America and likely other parts of the world as well.

The chemtrails are literally being 'engulfed', neutralized, and destroyed by huge airborne creatures that the ancient Greeks identified as Sylphs and photographed by Trevor James Constable in the 1950's and 60's. Trevor used infrared film to reveal these large (unseen) ameboid-shaped creatures seemingly swimming or floating through the atmosphere and called them "critters" in his 1976 book, The Cosmic Pulse of Life._


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Dec 7, 2009)

Grau, all I have to say is: good luck! I've found these idiots only believe in what they think, and everybody else is wrong. A while back, I got into a argument with some ahole on youtube that called the US and Israel evil, and the troops baby killers. After a long argument where he said I was uneducated(only by his standards) I gave up and told him to go f*ck himself.


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## GrauGeist (Dec 7, 2009)

Eh...I've got anything but boredom goin' on, Aaron! 

I think I'm cursed on a number of fronts here. One, I was raised to be curious and to find answers to my curiousity. The other, was to be tolerant of ignorance to a certain degree, unless those persons CHOOSE to be ignorant. Then it's "game on"...

The thing I find irritating about the internet, is the ability for people to just "hatch" a theory, and introduce it to hundreds (or thousands) of other people as fact, without any accredited scrutiny or oversight. It's bad enough to see teenagers who are (supposedly) in school, who cannot form a halfassed sentance, or post incredibly stupid comments on places like YouTube and everyone thinks that they are actually posting fact.

When I see stuff (like I quoted in my first post), I have to grit my teeth and try to avoid it best I can...but sometimes I have to just roll up the sleeves and wade in...


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Dec 7, 2009)

The Bugs Bunny approach.


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## Matt308 (Dec 7, 2009)

timshatz said:


> Njaco, why oh why did you bother divorcing her. Should've told her to "Wait here while I get the car" (anywhere will do) and then just drive away.
> 
> Come to think of it, leaving her in another country would probably be a better idea. Some place in Africa would be nice.



Ouch.


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## wheelsup_cavu (Dec 10, 2009)

Aaron Brooks Wolters said:


> The Bugs Bunny approach.



That's a good one Aaron. 


Wheels


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## 109ROAMING (Dec 10, 2009)

Vassili Zaitzev said:


> Grau, all I have to say is: good luck! I've found these idiots only believe in what they think, and everybody else is wrong. A while back, I got into a argument with some ahole on youtube that called the US and Israel evil, and the troops baby killers. After a long argument where he said I was uneducated(only by his standards) I gave up and told him to go f*ck himself.



hope it didn't piss ya off too much mate

General observation , the majorty of people who post on youtube's comments sections are f**cking idiots


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## Njaco (Dec 11, 2009)

I have to admit, I had never heard of this but cripe, these people are serious! Must be the same dolts who want me to remove all the birds from their front lawn!


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## RabidAlien (Dec 11, 2009)

Hey, that's just being smart! Dem dere birds are under gubbermint contrakt....


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Dec 11, 2009)

No sweat Roaming, I'm cool. If he'd said that crap in my face, I'd kick his @ss.


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## GrauGeist (Dec 11, 2009)

Yeah, the guy came back with a post and I haven't responded yet. Amazingly enough, I have real life stuff going on that needs my attention, and sparring with an "over educated" half-wit isn't at the top of the list. But I will, yes indeed. I'll make 'em wait it out...kind of like a mental seige 

The funny thing I notice about these clowns and thier chemtrail "symptoms", is that it's more likely attributed to vehicle and industrial pollution, drinking diet soft drinks, licking lead-based paint chips and serious hypocondria plus a whole shopping cart full of other things.

By the way VZ, there is a little "net" justice once in a while...a number of years ago, I got into a beef with a poster on a local message board, and this guy was going off on me about some local politics. I pretty much told the guy his info and facts were wrong, because I was directly involved in the issue, and he was just blowing noise out of the side of his neck and way off base. He came right back and told me he would find me and "hurt me bad, etc etc"...and this went on for a while with his flaming me and acting all tough in a number of threads. I pretty much ignored the idiot and it kind of died down.

Shortly after that, I was over at my friend's place, and his neighbor came over to tell him something that was going on with a local message board...I perked up and asked what that was all about. He told me some a-hole was hassling him, and he was really mad about it and wanted my friend to use some "tools" and find out where the guy was. I fished a little for some info, and discovered that this scrawny 20-something idiot was the douchebag that had been threatening me earlier. Without saying a word, I nailed the clown, got him to the floor and drug him outside by his hair. Once there, I told him who I was and if I ever saw him again, it would be his last day on earth.

He took off for home, and as he was leaving, I said "funny how real-life leaves bruises, huh?"

Never did see him on the boards again...dunno why...


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Dec 11, 2009)

It is nice to see that just desserts do get served from time to time.


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 11, 2009)

NICE!


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## Screaming Eagle (Dec 11, 2009)

Awesome.


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## Vassili Zaitzev (Dec 11, 2009)

Hahaha  Payback is a b!tch. Nice one Grau!


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 12, 2009)

From a forum I participate in...

"The Chemtrail Hoax

Six Reasons why "Chemtrails" are a Hoax 
I first heard about "chemtrails" about five years ago, from an individual on a pre-Y2k preparedness forum. About six months later, I logged onto one of the chemtrail forums, and followed many links, evaluating both pro-chemtrail and anti-chemtrail research. I have also talked to many people about these phenomena, including meteorologists, commercial airplane pilots/crew, and other aerospace engineers with direct experience with large fixed-wing aircraft. I came to conclusions that I would like to discuss below; but first, I'd like to tell you about me, because it may (or may not) give you some insights as to why I believe what I do. 

First, I want to emphasize that I do not speak for, or act as an agent for, my employer, The Boeing Company, in any way, shape, or form. My views are completely my own and do not necessarily reflect the views on anyone else at Boeing. As a matter of fact, I doubt if most of my colleagues have even heard of chemtrails. However, with thirty years in the aerospace/defense business, experience as a pilot (small aircraft only) and a habit of reading a lot, I hope that my views have something to back them up. Okay, here's my read on the view that some contrails are more than normal jet engine exhaust: 

It's completely bogus. The idea that long-lasting contrails are anything other than normal contrails, in my belief, fails on six counts: 

1. The existence of a huge and sinister plot is completely lacking in evidence. 

2. The logistics of a massive spraying program would be an order of magnitude higher than the Manhattan Project, the Apollo Moon Landing, or the Vietnam War -- and simply could not be hidden from any oversight. 

3. There is no evidence whatsoever of aircraft modified to perform some of the spraying methodologies that are proposed. 

4. Anecdotal "evidence" of any illnesses caused by contrails is not backed up by any reliable data (and is actually contradicted by others). 

5. There has never been any evidence of anyone collecting some of this "chemtrail" material in situ, having it tested by any reputable laboratory, and presented to anyone. 

6. Every characteristic of chemtrails can be just as logically and rationally explained by normal contrails under normal (but differentiating) atmospheric conditions. 

Now let's look at those counts in a bit more detail. 

(1) The existence of a huge and sinister plot is completely lacking in evidence. The President; Congress; SecDef; Director of the FAA; the entire command structure of the various armed services; every military man or woman who flies, maintains, fuels, and overhauls aircraft; every commercial pilot and crew member; every meteorologist; and every aerospace engineer who builds, sells, modifies, or maintains the entire fleet of worldwide commercial aircraft comprise a group of about half a million people. Every one of them would have to be in on the plot. And in the X number of years that this "chemtrail" stuff has been going on, NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM has come out and said anything about it! What is the chance of a plot that requires the help of a half-million people being secret for more than six milliseconds? Zero. 
As a matter of fact, there is no evidence of any sort of plot of any kind by the Bilderbergers, Illuminati, International Zionists, CFR, NWO, the International House of Pancakes, or anyone else. 

Is our government corrupt and immoral? I believe so. Is the UN controlled by a bunch of socialist third-world losers with their hands out for the US to feed them and fight their wars for them? I think so, too. But that does NOT mean that they are heading a huge, secret, centuries-old plot to have the Black Helicopters Manned By Crack Bolivian Troops In Blue Berets Haul Us Off To The Secret Concentration Camps In Roachspit, Texas Where We Will Be Forced To Knit UN Flags And Eat Ebola-Burgers. It just means that they're crooks! So what else is new? 

(2) The logistics of a massive spraying program. In order to have the massive worldwide spraying that the chemtrail-protagonists talk about would require thousands of aircraft, flying 24/7 shifts, with the additional support infrastructure, a bazillion pilots and ground crew, and the combined efforts of every employee at Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, and even Airbus Industrie. It isn't there. 
(3) There is no evidence whatsoever of aircraft modified to perform some of the spraying methodologies that are proposed. The only things I have ever seen on an aircraft that shoot things out (besides the engine exhaust) is the toilet and the fuel dump orifices, often at the wing tip. If the aircraft are squirting chemicals out of the fuel dump nozzles, what's in the fuel tanks? Poisonous chemicals? Huh-uh. (One exception to this is a military version of a civilian aircraft called TACAMO, a Navy variant of the AWACS aircraft. It has these oddball nozzles near the base of the wings. But they're still fuel-dump nozzles; they've merely been moved inboard because the TACAMO has reconnaissance pods at the wingtips, and they don't want to jettison JP-8 over the million-dollar electronics.) 

Bear in mind that you don't just strap in a couple of big tanks and poke the nozzles out through the aircraft fuselage. There are VERY stringent engineering details to be worked out regarding structural integrity, movable center of gravity, environmental protection for the crew and poison-loaders, etc. Almost all major mods to an aircraft are done under subsequent contract to the original builder. Since no one at Boeing knows anything about such mods (and I've asked around) this means it either wasn't done, or everyone else (but me) in the company is in on the secret. Huh-uh. 

(4) Anecdotal "evidence" of any illnesses caused by contrails is not backed up. One of the hypotheses of "chemtrails" is that they're toxic/infectious/bad juju. Various people report that they came down with flu-like symptoms after a heavy "spray day". As someone who does a lot of travel (domestic and international), I've flown out of a lot of airports and through a lot of other aircraft's contrails over the past five years. 
If the poison-chemtrail hypothesis had any merit, there would be tons of sick passengers crawling off the 0900 shuttle to LAX; I've never seen 'em, nor has anyone I've talked with. If there is some weird residue in the contrails other than water with traces of JP-8, you'd see aircraft taxiing into the concourse with some sort of crud over the leading edges. I've never seen any of that, nor has anyone I've talked with. 
One possible explanation for those flu-like symptoms? Flu. There's tons of it going around, and it's been that way since 1918. 

(5) There has never been any evidence of anyone collecting some of this "chemtrail" material in situ, having it tested by any reputable laboratory, and presented to anyone. With all the interest in this crud, why hasn't anyone ever flown up to a "chemtrail", sampled some of the stuff, and brought it back to a reputable lab for test and reported on it? 

One site purporting to talk about a laboratory testing a sample told how some individual scraped "something" off the side of a house, and sent it to one of the chemtrail protagonists. This individual sent it to a laboratory where he says they reported it had some bacteria in it. But then the individual says the lab "changed its mind" and said there was nothing wrong. Not only that, but our friend said he would not tell us the name of either the lab or the investigator because of ... of... something or other. That sure raises a credibility issue to me! Another researcher says he has the information, but he wants to be "compensated" for all the work he's put in before he tells us his tale. Puh-leez! 

If there were just one case of someone with any credibility collecting some of this junk before it falls to the earth and gets worms on it, then sends it to a lab where objective individuals can review it under open conditions and publish their findings, that might lend a bit more credence to the whole chemtrail business. I'm waiting, but I don't think I'll skip dinner. 

(6) Every characteristic of chemtrails can be just as logically and rationally explained by normal contrails under normal (but differentiating) atmospheric conditions. 

But first, let?s take a minute and discuss what contrails are, anyway. 

Contrails happen when the water vapor from the jet?s exhaust freezes into an ice cloud. If the temperature is at or below ?40 degrees and the relative humidity is at a hundred percent or greater, then the ice cloud will stay frozen, and even act as a nucleus for other ice clouds to form around. This is why sometimes a contrail will ?spread? to form larger clouds. If you have enough aircraft flying and making contrails, and the atmospheric conditions at that altitude are ?proper? for contrail formation and persistence, then you can have the entire sky covered with thin clouds.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 12, 2009)

Part 2

If the temperature is above minus forty degrees or less than 100% relative humidity, then the ice crystals will sublime (turn back into gas without going through a liquid phase, like dry ice) in about a minute or less and the contrails will disappear. 

This increased cloud cover, by the way, can have serious long-term effects, when you think about it. More cloud cover means cooler days (because the clouds block the sunlight coming in during the day) and warmer nights (because the clouds block the heat radiating out into space at night). This ?diurnal temperature delta? or the difference between day and night temperatures, could have some long-term effects, because most plants and animals in a particular environment have adapted to a temperature difference of so many degrees. When this figure is left, the plants and animals might not be able to thrive. 

So when you put it this way, contrails can have a possible bad effect on the environment. But that?s not what the chemtrail-believers are talking about. 

Now to the ?weird chemtrails?: 

?Dashed? contrails? Sometimes you?ll see contrails that start and stop, just like dashed lines. Some Chemtrail-believers say that such things are ?proof? of chemtrails, because the start and stop contrails are the result of the ?spray nozzles? getting stuck or something. 

Now does it seem kind of odd to you that a powerful gang running secret plot which includes a million people can?t seem to be able to keep a simple on-off nozzle working? Actually, the reasons that you have start-and-stop contrails is because the atmosphere is not constant and smooth; it?s very turbulent (which is why we have clouds and wind). It?s pretty common to have one spot at, say, 35,000 feet where the temperature/humidity is at ?40/100%, yet only a quarter mile away, the temperature?s a degree or so higher, or the humidity is a percentage point less. That?s enough to stop the contrail from persisting. And believe me, an aircraft flying at 550 miles per hour covers that quarter mile in just a couple of seconds! 

Circular contrails? Often, an airport may be backed up and the air traffic control folks might ?stack up? aircraft in a circular holding pattern for a half-hour (or even longer). If that plane?s flying in a circle at the proper temperature/humidity profile, you?ll see circular contrails. 

Two ?side-by-side? contrails, one that dissipates in a matter of minutes, and the other which persists for hours? The chances are that they?re not side-by-side, but one is a thousand feet or more higher than another. When you?re looking at aircraft at a cruising altitude, you simply can?t tell which aircraft is closer. You have no frame of reference except the sky, and besides six miles high is just too far for us to have any kind of depth perception at all. 

?Tic-tac-toe? contrails? No matter where you live in the continental United States, you are probably within view of at least one North-South and one East-West air corridor. So you might be seeing three aircraft on the DFW (Dallas/Fort Worth to LAX (Los Angeles International) corridor and four from Phoenix Sky Harbor to Seattle-Tacoma International corridor. These flights could be five minutes and two thousand feet apart, but if they?re high enough, you?ll see seven lines crossing ? just like a tic-tac-toe. (you probably won?t see any X?s or O?s, though). 

Conclusion 

So why the big deal with "Chemtrails"? I think there're popular on the boards for several reasons. 

1. Conspiracies are fun! If you think you know what they're REALLY doing, maybe it makes you feel more powerful and on the "inside". Only the "sheeple" believe all the government lies, where WE know better. You remember the sheeple, of course -- they were those poor fools who believed that Y2K was going to be, at worse, a bump in the road. Shows how dumb they were, right? 

2. Most chemtrail conspiracy theorists simply don't know much about things that would help them to disbelieve such hypotheses: stuff like engineering, meteorology, government procurement, military force structure, etc. But most importantly, the most of these individuals simply don't understand how scientific investigation and research works. They confuse opinion with facts, equate hypotheses with theories, do not reason logically, engage in ad hominem arguments, cannot or will not read peer-reviewed journals --- the list goes on and on. 

Maybe I shouldn't get so exercised about the whole chemtrail business. In a way, it's like the belief in the Easter Bunny -- it keeps the folks happy; and as long as they don't try to shoot down a "chemtrail" plane, or assassinate or otherwise harass people who disagree with them, they're harmless. 

But there are so many important things in the world that I consider a real priority -- Government intrusion into our lives, a nutburg foreign and domestic policy, the chance that a natural disaster may justify all those old Y2K preps, the pollution of our atmosphere and destruction of our environment by hydrocarbon burning -- that I hate to think that well-meaning but naive people on these and other forums are wasting their time on what is no more than a silly and cruel hoax."


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 12, 2009)

Excellent post FB!


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## Soren (Dec 12, 2009)

GrauGeist said:


> Yeah, the guy came back with a post and I haven't responded yet. Amazingly enough, I have real life stuff going on that needs my attention, and sparring with an "over educated" half-wit isn't at the top of the list. But I will, yes indeed. I'll make 'em wait it out...kind of like a mental seige
> 
> The funny thing I notice about these clowns and thier chemtrail "symptoms", is that it's more likely attributed to vehicle and industrial pollution, drinking diet soft drinks, licking lead-based paint chips and serious hypocondria plus a whole shopping cart full of other things.
> 
> ...



That's a direct thumbs up from me! I can only wish I get the same chance some day, man I would love to get my hands on one those suckers.


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## GrauGeist (Dec 13, 2009)

LOL Soren, yeah...that was a once in a blue-moon event, you just don't get that kind of coincidence every day.

Great post Joe! Man, I'd love to shove that under thier noses...

However, the saga continues now...there's two of 'em! So I had to reply...

Here's thier replies (get a beer and sit back, this is REAL interesting)...
This is from the first guy:


> I'm not talking about contrails; and I know what happens at high alltitudes.
> If you've see so many of the flying spraying by cargo size planes going on, much of them are at much lower alltitudes.
> I'll keep it simple. What are they doing then? Is Cris-crossing in the air, flying parallel, simpling flying in a bit of an order, with no destination, well is that pilot training, while huge amounts of spray come out of the back as well as engine area and slowly spread out in a most unusual pattern and some colours. There are photos of these planes showing large spray nozels on the tail end, for the purpose spreading and spraying chemicals. After spray flights the air have been tested on the ground by scientists, proven to have barium, fungus, to toxic chemicals, and much more. Also It's been admitted spraying has been done in England, all the way to Winnipeg, and in Minneapolis at different times, testing the affects of some 'chemical' on the populations.
> If the military has used soldiers for chemical testing then cetainly they have used large population areas, as unclassified documents have admitted.
> ...


And here's the other person (and a female, even) with three of 'em:


> Who is the administrator of this page?.. no name another Government Schill?.. after 365 days of continuous Chemtrail Spraying, i suppose no one will be able to tell between a chemtrail tainted cloud and a real cloud.. notice how he says', " i will not be taking picutres on days that ir rains".. because that would allo...w you to see what a real cloud looks like.. and why no name.. . he is paying for the add that is found on your side bar.. who is paying for that add.. The Bilderberg Group?.. wake up people..





> what do you work for the CIA??????... you should only allow clouds that are real.. no chemtrails.





> THis page is a Schill operative.. CIA.. to dope people up and confuse them.. they have been spraying heavily since March in the US.. and many haven't put it together.. many are getting sick and still it would never occur to them that their Government would spray them 24 / 7... as you can see not many know the diffrance ..
> 
> wake up people..


And so I replied (and with typos, even)...


> Wow...another one...
> 
> It's amazing how folks go to great lengths in thier desire to live in a world filled with fear and suspicion. And the internet has been exceptionally fertile grounds for everything from UFO conspiracy, right on down to the ultra-low frequency exposure project that the "black helicopters" are supposedly conducting...
> 
> ...



This could get interesting...


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 13, 2009)

There you go again, using facts and logic.....sheesh.................

Obviously before aircraft, they were using coconut laden swallows to spread chem trails.


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## GrauGeist (Dec 13, 2009)

Oh man, you have no idea how it's rollin' over there now!

The female is on a real roll 

(And it was carrier pidgeons, not swallows...but now the pidgeons are extinct...I wonder why!!)


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## RabidAlien (Dec 14, 2009)

African or European swallows? Because it makes a difference as far as what types of chemicals each type is able to carry...


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## Njaco (Dec 14, 2009)

And you have to factor in wind-speed velocity!!!

I would ask them why the gubberment, whose funding comes from the people, would go to these lengths to kill or harm the very same people? Reducing your funding base has no rational answer.


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## Crimea_River (Dec 14, 2009)

A wise man once told me to never argue with an idiot because after a few minutes, it becomes difficult to tell who is who.

Works for me and it seems I rarely get into an argument. Hmmm...


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2009)

What the hell are you talkin' about River, you SoB? Can you back that up with facts?


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## Crimea_River (Dec 14, 2009)

Trying.......to..............ig....nore.


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## FLYBOYJ (Dec 14, 2009)

Need to tell them...



1. Present an aircraft capable of covert chemical spraying

2. Present a pilot, aircrew or maintainer who worked on these aircraft

3. Show where these aircraft operate from


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2009)

Crimea_River said:


> Trying.......to..............ig....nore.



River I was kidding. Remember arguing with idiots... never mind. Self depricating humor never works in my favor.


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## Crimea_River (Dec 14, 2009)

Matt, I know. My Homer Simpson impression didn't work either so we're even.


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2009)

Must get internet humor!


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## Soren (Dec 14, 2009)




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## Erich (Dec 14, 2009)

more utter bull shir by those that are jobless or should be jobless and are not in any capacity helping society except get stuck in their own mass paranoia. Grey ghost no sense arguing or even pointing them to the truth they are already polluted

frickin A go ride a bike fools


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## Matt308 (Dec 14, 2009)

Erich said:


> frickin A go ride a bike fools




Didn't Gandalf say that right before he kicked the Balrog's azz?


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## Erich (Dec 14, 2009)

similar statement but no, Gandlaph's butt is too fat for a saddle so ................


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## GrauGeist (Dec 14, 2009)

LMAO!!

Especially Matt's "must get internet humor", but I think the sheep one would work better 

As far as the "tinfoil hat brigade" goes, I've had my way with 'em...they're all up in a frenzy now...

One of 'em came back at me and said : "and why are you the voice of reason?"

Why? Simple...if I see the Emperor walking down the street buck-nekked, I have no problem pointing out the obvious...


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## Njaco (Dec 15, 2009)




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## vikingBerserker (Dec 15, 2009)

Nice!


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## Matt308 (Dec 16, 2009)

Good one!


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## Lucky13 (Dec 16, 2009)

Me thinks that these numbnuts confuse their owncontrails, which they leave when farting in cold weather....


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## Marcel (Dec 16, 2009)

They fart in cold weather?


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## Erich (Dec 16, 2009)

For natural warmth Marcel ~






big E ~


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## Njaco (Dec 16, 2009)

I FINALLY HAVE SOLID, POSITIVE, PHOTOGRAPHIC, SCIENTIFIC, INCONTROVERTABLE PROOF OF WHERE CHEMTRAILS COME FROM!!!!!! 
I followed this strange man out of a Burger King and into an open field. Thank God I had my Nikon!!!

Its the Whopper, man, the Whopper!!!!


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 16, 2009)

I'll be damned! That explains everything!


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## GrauGeist (Dec 16, 2009)

Well...I'll be go to hell...


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## RabidAlien (Dec 17, 2009)

He's an alien.


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## gumbyk (Dec 17, 2009)

I've finally tracked down the source of the conspiracy...







Those pesky chemtrails ain't gonna get him!!!!


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## vikingBerserker (Dec 17, 2009)

LMAO


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