# Were there any enemy planes at the D-Day landings?



## BountyHunter15 (Mar 2, 2005)

I heard there were V-1 rocket sites behind the invasion areas.


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## GT (Mar 3, 2005)

Update.


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## mosquitoman (Mar 3, 2005)

I think only 2 planes made it to the beacheads but I'm not that sure


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## KraziKanuK (Mar 3, 2005)

BH

the V1 launch sites were in the Pas de Calais area.

JaFu II made about 23 claims of Allied a/c in the vicinity of Normandy on June 6. http://jg26.vze.com/ > see bottom for Tony Woods link

As Mosman said, I think only 2 Fw190s flown by Priller and Wodarczyk from JG26 actually flew over the landing beaches.

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## GT (Mar 3, 2005)

Update.


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## GT (Mar 3, 2005)

Update.


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## wmaxt (Mar 3, 2005)

It's my understanding that on D-Day 2 German planes flew over the beaches. Also the Fleet/beaches had a fighter cover consisting of P-38s only to provide Identifiable cover to the very nervous defense teams on the ships. 

NOTE: this is over the beaches/ships, inland it was another story with a lot of tacticle flying including B-17/B-24 raids on German defensive positions inland!


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 3, 2005)

Weren't the 2 German planes 109's?


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## wmaxt (Mar 3, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Weren't the 2 German planes 109's?



I think, so Priller comes to mind but that might just be me being silly again. I got that from the book JG-26 by Don Caldwell I think, I didn't check and confirm.


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## GT (Mar 4, 2005)

Update.


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 4, 2005)

Yeah Im sure Priller flew on D-Day...But that would have been Fw-190A-8...


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## GT (Mar 4, 2005)

Update.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Mar 4, 2005)

nice, priller's even looking at us...........


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 4, 2005)

Ah I like Priller...


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Mar 4, 2005)

You all beat me to it.


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## GT (Mar 5, 2005)

Update.


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 5, 2005)

The Jagdflieger Pips said:


> You all beat me to it.



Never mind, im sure you know more about it than us anyway 8)


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Mar 5, 2005)

Maybe, I donno if I should give myself THAT much credit.

Though.. pilots are typically over-confident anyway, so I will.


Yes. Yes I do know a lot. n_n


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Mar 5, 2005)

I believe this is the plane he flew on D-day. After rummaging a bunch of pictures of different planes he had..


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## GT (Mar 6, 2005)

Update.


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## GT (Mar 6, 2005)

Update.


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## GT (Mar 6, 2005)

Fw190A-3, Wk-Nr 0552, With Black Double Chevron and personal ace of hearts +Jutta marking.

Cheers
GT


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## GT (Mar 6, 2005)

Update.


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## GT (Mar 6, 2005)

Update.


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## GT (Mar 6, 2005)

Update.


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## cheddar cheese (Mar 6, 2005)

Nice pictures! 8)


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Mar 6, 2005)

I just got owned. O______O;


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## mosquitoman (Mar 6, 2005)

Don't worry, it happens to all of us (even though we might not admit it)


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Mar 6, 2005)

Yeah. I'm thinking I got too cocky.


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## mosquitoman (Mar 7, 2005)

I know the feeling


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## GT (Mar 11, 2005)

Update.


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## Vahe Demirjian (Dec 29, 2019)

There was one Junkers Ju 88 that strafed the beaches at Normandy -see https://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/warbirds-planes-d-day/ .

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## Admiral Beez (Dec 29, 2019)

GT said:


> Update.


I don’t understand, what does posting Update continuously mean?

Whoops, just saw this thread was necromanced.


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## fubar57 (Dec 29, 2019)

Priller mentions that he thought he and his wing man would never survive the flight over the beaches due to gunfire and now we have a lumbering Ju88 making a run. It may have been so but I need to see more than one reference to it. I did a quick search and that link is the only one I’ve seen so far

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## GrauGeist (Dec 29, 2019)

Plenty of accounts of Priller and his wingman making a run down the beach in their Fw190s and later, Ar234 jets making photo recon sorties, but I have never heard of this mysterious Ju88...


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## michael rauls (Dec 29, 2019)

Agree with you guys. I'm learning to be suspicious of one obscure reference stuff.
They may be accurate but on the other hand...... maybe not.


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## GrauGeist (Dec 29, 2019)

Then the article throws in a "Caidinism" with this threadworn nugget:


> Indeed, American and British ground forces shot down a number of their own airplanes, the exception being the P-38 Lightning, nicknamed the "Fork Tailed Devil" by German soldiers. Its distinctive twin-boom design made it easy for ground personnel to recognize and, therefore, refrain from firing at it.


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## Admiral Beez (Dec 29, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> Plenty of accounts of Priller and his wingman making a run down the beach in their Fw190s and later, Ar234 jets making photo recon sorties, but I have never heard of this mysterious Ju88...


If I’m assigned to fly over Normandy I’m flying my Fw190 to Britain to surrender. If I don’t get shot down, of course.

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## michael rauls (Dec 30, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> Then the article throws in a "Caidinism" with this threadworn nugget:


I once read( so it may or may not be true) that the fork tailed devil monicur stems from a single German foot soldier that refered to the p38s as such after being captured apparently due to them being so quiet the foot soldiers couldn't hear them comming like other types.
Anyway, a war correspondent herd or overheard this and the rest is history as they say. So there may actually be a small cornel of truth in the root of the fork tailed devil name.


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## fubar57 (Dec 30, 2019)

I think it was discussed here before that it started in the States

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## GrauGeist (Dec 30, 2019)

P-38 pilots called them a Fork-tail Devil, my great-Uncle included (USAAC/USAAF - PTO) - Caidin took "liberties" with the expression in his books.

And according to an old friend of the family (Luftwaffe, Jg27) - they called the P-38 a "Lightning", just as they called the P-47 a "Thunderbolt", a P-51 a "Mustang", a B-17 a "Boeing" and so on...no dramatic nicknames.

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## michael rauls (Dec 30, 2019)

That was my understanding also about the names used by the Germans as a whole but the story of that one individual foot soldier using the name sounded at least plausible to me. But again it was one of those one mention in one story so may or may not be true.


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## swampyankee (Dec 30, 2019)

GrauGeist said:


> P-38 pilots called them a Fork-tail Devil, my great-Uncle included (USAAC/USAAF - PTO) - Caidin took "liberties" with the expression in his books.
> 
> And according to an old friend of the family (Luftwaffe, Jg27) - they called the P-38 a "Lightning", just as they called the P-47 a "Thunderbolt", a P-51 a "Mustang", a B-17 a "Boeing" and so on...no dramatic nicknames.


Both “Fork-tailed Devil” and “Whistling Death” have always seemed more likely the result of US ad execs than enemy pilots.

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## Snautzer01 (Dec 30, 2019)

Germans called a p-47 a Tempest and a spitfire, mustang, a beaufort a beaufighter and a Anston a Wellington. Even b17 and b24 were mixed up. And that is not to start at soviet airplanes. In the air with 600km plus into your target that is trying to kill you as you are trying to kill it, target recognistion was not a first in the line of thought. 
Nicknames had no value but for the propaganda.

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## pbehn (Dec 30, 2019)

Snautzer01 said:


> Germans called a p-47 a Tempest and a spitfire, mustang, a beaufort a beaufighter and a Anston a Wellington. Even b17 and b24 were mixed up. And that is not to start at soviet airplanes. In the air with 600km plus into your target that is trying to kill you as you are trying to kill it, target recognistion was not a first in the line of thought.
> Nicknames had no value but for the propaganda.


Well the RAF put stripes on the Typhoon because in the air it looked like an Fw190 to far too many people.

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## Snautzer01 (Dec 30, 2019)

pbehn said:


> Well the RAF put stripes on the Typhoon because in the air it looked like an Fw190 to far too many people.


Germans painted noses of fw190 for just the same problem. And that is without the boys and girls manning the aaa shooting all in the air besides the feathered ones.

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## Tieleader (Dec 30, 2019)

I believe the 56th and 4th early Jugs also had a white nose ring, and a single white stripe on each wing,horizontal, and vertical because of the similiarity to the 190.


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## Barrett (Jan 2, 2020)

The literature of the GAF over Normandy is vast and easily accessed.
Maybe the reason some people think that Priller & his No. 2 (KIA in August, BTW) flew 109s is that only 108s were available for _The Longest Day_ (Priller's record as stated therein is WAY off base.)
In researching _The D-Day Encyclopedia_ I found numbers for the GAF all over the map, upwards of 300 sorties including bombers that night. Fact is, nobody seems to know, but it was dangsure a lot more than two.
Sidebar:
As a former Movie Reviewer (different from a Motion Picture Critic) I can state without fear of contradiction that The Best Thing About TLD is/was
Iriai Demick. 
BTW: She and Red Buttons also appeared in another D-Day film, _Up From the Beach._

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## pbehn (Jan 2, 2020)

Barrett said:


> The literature of the GAF over Normandy is vast and easily accessed.
> Maybe the reason some people think that Priller & his No. 2 (KIA in August, BTW) flew 109s is that only 108s were available for _The Longest Day_ (Priller's record as stated therein is WAY off base.)
> _._


Amazingly, only 885 Bf 108s were made, I think they all became movie stars, or maybe that's just the impression I got.


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## firedup (Jan 2, 2020)

The Jagdflieger Pips said:


> You all beat me to it.


Thats Hans Joachim Marseilles - In North Africa.The highest scoring German pilot in the west with 152 confirmed victories - all against the western allies.He was killed while flying a replacement ME 109 G2.In bailing out he hit the vertical fin and was knocked unconscious and fell to his death.. Sad end to a magnificent fighter pilot..


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## GrauGeist (Jan 2, 2020)

Barrett said:


> The literature of the GAF over Normandy is vast and easily accessed.
> Maybe the reason some people think that Priller & his No. 2 (KIA in August, BTW) flew 109s is that only 108s were available for _The Longest Day_ (Priller's record as stated therein is WAY off base.)
> In researching _The D-Day Encyclopedia_ I found numbers for the GAF all over the map, upwards of 300 sorties including bombers that night. Fact is, nobody seems to know, but it was dangsure a lot more than two.
> Sidebar:
> ...


Priller flew an Fw190, not a Bf109 and the bulk of the sorties flown by the Luftwaffe on D-Day were either PR flights or anti-shipping. The only recorded flights over the beach proper, was Priller's strafing pass and a high speed photo pass by an Ar234.


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## gordonm1 (Jan 3, 2020)

Sounded like a target rich environment where high altitude attack would prove useful. No planes to fly then?


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## fubar57 (Jan 3, 2020)

A brief explanation....https://www.quora.com/Why-didnt-the...long-the-beaches-during-the-Normandy-landings
....and some more reading...https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a432943.pdf

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## Andrew Arthy (Feb 17, 2020)

Hi,

There were at least 21 _Luftwaffe_ missions over the beachhead during daylight hours on 6 June 1944, including six by reconnaissance units, three by ground-attack FW 190s, one by Ju 88s of I./Z.G. 1, and eleven by fighters of J.G. 2 and J.G. 26. This added up to a little over 200 sorties. Adam Thompson and I are working on an article about this subject, and hope to publish it on 6 June 2020. Our sources for this information are various German documents, including sortie maps and daily _Luftwaffe_ summaries, plus logbooks of German pilots operational on that day.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications

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## Just Schmidt (Feb 18, 2020)

I bet the Germans thought there were lots of enemy planes at the d-day landings.


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## Milosh (Feb 18, 2020)

Tieleader said:


> I believe the 56th and 4th early Jugs also had a white nose ring, and a single white stripe on each wing,horizontal, and vertical because of the similiarity to the 190.


Same reason the P-51 got them > looked like a Bf109.


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## pbehn (Feb 18, 2020)

Milosh said:


> Same reason the P-51 got them > looked like a Bf109.


They all look the same to those who have had no training and experience. My uncle was Royal Observer Corps seconded to a USA flak ship for three weeks during D-Day just to identify friend or foe to the US officer in charge who then directed fire. He saw 20 minutes of action in 3 weeks.

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## Crimea_River (Feb 18, 2020)

Andrew Arthy said:


> Hi,
> 
> There were at least 21 _Luftwaffe_ missions over the beachhead during daylight hours on 6 June 1944, including six by reconnaissance units, three by ground-attack FW 190s, one by Ju 88s of I./Z.G. 1, and eleven by fighters of J.G. 2 and J.G. 26. This added up to a little over 200 sorties. Adam Thompson and I are working on an article about this subject, and hope to publish it on 6 June 2020. Our sources for this information are various German documents, including sortie maps and daily _Luftwaffe_ summaries, plus logbooks of German pilots operational on that day.
> 
> ...



Good info Andrew. Looking forward to what will no doubt be another quality article.

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## pbehn (Feb 18, 2020)

Milosh said:


> Same reason the P-51 got them > looked like a Bf109.


While my uncle was on that ship they had one of those "fubar" moments. It was full of guns and gunners, new to the theatre and direct from USA, young lads keen and patriotic and hyped up. They had had all the training and the drills, but then when they were on station off the D-Day beaches a plane came into sight, one gunner opened fire and that triggered off a lot more, like a false start in the 100m final, blasting away at a dot in the distance, no one knew what it was but it was a single engined plane and way out of range. There was a lot of ffffing and blinding and eventually order was restored, by the time something did happen for real, the whole thing worked like a well oiled machine. Kellys Heroes wasnt complete fiction.

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## GrauGeist (Feb 19, 2020)

One of the main reasons the Luftwaffe didn't have a strong showing on D-Day (or the following days) is because Luftflotte 3 had been drained of resources in the preceeding months.

They did indeed make a showing, but they only had roughly 300 aircraft to work with where the Allies had well over three times that many. 

Between 6 June and 12 June, the Geschwaders under LF3 command made over 2,000 sorties which included anti-shipping, ground attack, bombing and recon. So the Luftwaffe wasn't completely out of the picture.


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## Spitlead (Feb 19, 2020)

wmaxt said:


> It's my understanding that on D-Day 2 German planes flew over the beaches. Also the Fleet/beaches had a fighter cover consisting of P-38s only to provide Identifiable cover to the very nervous defense teams on the ships.
> 
> NOTE: this is over the beaches/ships, inland it was another story with a lot of tacticle flying including B-17/B-24 raids on German defensive positions inland!



Only P-38s?? Wasn't the whole point of the invasion stripes on the wings of allied fighters and bombers for easy identification by ground and naval forces?


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## fubar57 (Feb 19, 2020)

Can't mistake the shape of a P-38

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## GrauGeist (Feb 19, 2020)

The Allies had everything up in the air over Normandy: P-38s, Spitfires, P-47s, P-51s, Hurricanes and a huge list of bombers.

About 11,000 aircraft (including transports & gliders) total if memory serves right.


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## Spitlead (Feb 19, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> The Allies had everything up in the air over Normandy: P-38s, Spitfires, P-47s, P-51s, Hurricanes and a huge list of bombers.
> 
> About 11,000 aircraft (including transports & gliders) total if memory serves right.


That's what I would think. You'd put everything up possible to protect the slow ships, landing craft, and troops on the beaches.


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## Snautzer01 (Feb 20, 2020)

And if german planes got to the beaches....

Original WW2 U.S. Press 8x12 " Photo- Shot Down German Plane Explosion NORMANDY | eBay


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## Koopernic (Feb 22, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> One of the main reasons the Luftwaffe didn't have a strong showing on D-Day (or the following days) is because Luftflotte 3 had been drained of resources in the preceeding months.
> 
> They did indeed make a showing, but they only had roughly 300 aircraft to work with where the Allies had well over three times that many.
> 
> Between 6 June and 12 June, the Geschwaders under LF3 command made over 2,000 sorties which included anti-shipping, ground attack, bombing and recon. So the Luftwaffe wasn't completely out of the picture.



I believe that there were 298 sorties flown against the allied landings in the first day. Bombers also made attacks at night.


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## Admiral Beez (Feb 24, 2020)

Did the Germans consider a poison gas attack on the invasion forces? Seems a Nazi-like last ditch swing.


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## GrauGeist (Feb 24, 2020)

Admiral Beez said:


> Did the Germans consider a poison gas attack on the invasion forces? Seems a Nazi-like last ditch swing.


No...and while they had the weapons on hand, Hitler (who had first hand experience with gas attacks) knew that would open Pandora's box, so it was not an option.

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## Spitlead (Feb 28, 2020)

I find it curious that a man who would order the extermination of millions of Jews, who sent hundreds of V-1 and V-2 rockets against civilians, and who for the most part disregarded the well being of his soldiers by time and again ordering them to stand their ground to defend the Reich in the face of overwhelming odds, would care if poison gas was used, even with his personal experience. People were simply a means to an end, a 1000 year Reich.


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## Tieleader (Feb 28, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> The Allies had everything up in the air over Normandy: P-38s, Spitfires, P-47s, P-51s, Hurricanes and a huge list of bombers.
> 
> About 11,000 aircraft (including transports & gliders) total if memory serves right.


A former Eagle SQ/4th pilot I knew flew a P-51 at least six sorties over the beachs that day. His memory of those days were ships,ships and more ships. He didn't mention seeing Priller and wingman. Off topic , Priller opened a brewery after the war and held annual reunions with his jagdfleiger brothers and Jimmy ended becoming good friends with all the guys he fought with during WW2.


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## RoyalOrderofWhaleBangers (Feb 28, 2020)

Admiral Beez said:


> Did the Germans consider a poison gas attack on the invasion forces? Seems a Nazi-like last ditch swing.



Regarding Germany not employing nerve agents against the Allies, one potential factor is that the first nerve gas had been developed by accident in the German pesticide industry. The United States was very active in pesticide research and development, so one might suspect that they had made a similar discovery(ies). With air superiority and a huge force of strategic bombers, the U.S. and U.K. could have deluged targets all over Germany with chemical munitions. That would’ve been devastating even with conventional agents. The Germans were also highly dependent on horse-drawn transport, which would be highly susceptible to poison gases. Considerations like those are far more likely reasons than a morally pathological regime hesitating due to humanitarian concerns as sometimes suggested.


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## GrauGeist (Feb 28, 2020)

RoyalOrderofWhaleBangers said:


> Regarding Germany not employing nerve agents against the Allies, one potential factor is that the first nerve gas had been developed by accident in the German pesticide industry. The United States was very active in pesticide research and development, so one might suspect that they had made a similar discovery(ies). With air superiority and a huge force of strategic bombers, the U.S. and U.K. could have deluged targets all over Germany with chemical munitions. That would’ve been devastating even with conventional agents. The Germans were also highly dependent on horse-drawn transport, which would be highly susceptible to poison gases. Considerations like those are far more likely reasons than a morally pathological regime hesitating due to humanitarian concerns as sometimes suggested.


Poison gas (of various types) were present in Europe, both in Allied and Axis stockpiles. There was even an instance where mustard gas was inadvertently deployed when the Luftwaffe attacked the port of Bari, Italy on 2 December 1943. The SS John Harvey, among 27 other ships, was hit and it's cargo detonated, broadcasting mustard gas accross the port.

It's an interesting opinion about horses and all, but the fact remains that Hitler did not want poison weapons deployed. He experienced and was injured by gas during WWI and knew that using it would bring retaliation.

Simple as that.

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## swampyankee (Feb 28, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> Can't mistake the shape of a P-38



...and yet AA gunners managed to do so.


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## pbehn (Feb 28, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> It's an interesting opinion about horses and all, but the fact remains that Hitler did not want poison weapons deployed. He experienced and was injured by gas during WWI and knew that using it would bring retaliation.
> 
> Simple as that.


Even the moderate winds in Europe ensured the use of gas made its own retaliation, you invariably start gassing your own troops.


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## pbehn (Feb 28, 2020)

swampyankee said:


> ...and yet AA gunners managed to do so.


My uncle was on a USA gun ship on D-Day and after, specifically to identify friend or foe for US gunners (via the gunnery controller). AA gunners didn't mis identify aircraft, they just opened fire on anything and everything that moved near the ship, it took some getting out of the young guys systems, because the obvious fact was most planes they saw were friends.. but they didn't want to be sunk by the 1 in 1000 that wasn't.


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## Greyman (Mar 1, 2020)

GrauGeist said:


> It's an interesting opinion about horses and all ...



During postwar interrogation Goering said this was the primary reason they never used poison gas.


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## Koopernic (Mar 3, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> Can't mistake the shape of a P-38


I bet that a reconnaissance pilot with the balls for it could get away with flying a Fw 189


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## pbehn (Mar 3, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> Can't mistake the shape of a P-38


Flying straight at you does it look different to a Bf 110?

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## Propellorhead (Oct 18, 2020)

michael rauls said:


> Agree with you guys. I'm learning to be suspicious of one obscure reference stuff.
> They may be accurate but on the other hand...... maybe not.



My father who was a signalman on LCH187 at Arromanches fired on a low flying Ju88 on D-day plus they fired at a Spitfire without invasion stripes, using their 40mm pom pom. when I was younger I had a photograph of a Ju88 dropping an oyster mine inside a Mulberry Harbour. SADLY over the years I lost this photo


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