# Favorite US Naval (carrier) bird



## MacArther (Oct 17, 2005)

Which one did you like the most? Post your reasons with the vote. If you say "other" tell which one, and why.


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## syscom3 (Oct 17, 2005)

I picked the Corsair. Besides it performance being excellent in most catagories, it looked cool!


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## FLYBOYJ (Oct 17, 2005)

F4U and SBD


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## Gnomey (Oct 17, 2005)

F4U Corsair.


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## MacArther (Oct 17, 2005)

I like the F4F3 and the Dautless. I like the F4F3, because the lighter armament and non-folding wings gave it a better top speed and a better turn rate (/radius). As for the Dautless, it was a great bomber, and SHOULD have been given a more powerful engine from the get-go, so it cold feasibly run away from fighters when it was in a shallow dive.


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 17, 2005)

F6F...Like the F4F but kicks more ass


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## helmitsmit (Oct 17, 2005)

I chose the F4U as it had the best peformance capability. Thanks to the British the Americans could opperate it effectively off carriers.


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## wmaxt (Oct 17, 2005)

I'd choose the F4U as well, it had the performance and time in service.

wmaxt


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## syscom3 (Oct 17, 2005)

helmitsmit said:


> I chose the F4U as it had the best peformance capability. Thanks to the British the Americans could opperate it effectively off carriers.



i think it was the Brits who figured out how to safely land it on carriers.

Prior to that, it was called the "Ensign Eliminator" for a reason.


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## wmaxt (Oct 17, 2005)

syscom3 said:


> i think it was the Brits who figured out how to safely land it on carriers.
> 
> Prior to that, it was called the "Ensign Eliminator" for a reason.



Your right about the carrier landings, the Brits developed the curving approach and decided the landing gear would work ok.

It was always called the "Ensign Eliminator" and many other names, you could tourque roll the plane at low speeds and quick throttle movements making it a dangerous plane to land for the uninitiated.

wmaxt


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 17, 2005)

I've read it could be a bitch on take-off too, for the same reasons. A few marines found that out the hard way when they first launched from a carrier. But once the plane's quirks were figured out, they did pretty well with it. 

I chose the Corsair as my favourite for the same reasons syscom did.


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## plan_D (Oct 17, 2005)

Because the loud raw of the Corsairs engine turns you on? 

Oh wait ...that's my reason. Yes ...yes ...my choice is the Corsair.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 17, 2005)

Corsair all the way.... The Hellcat is a close second....


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## Aggie08 (Oct 17, 2005)

I picked the hellcat. It was the most important fighter in the pacific theater. Simple, robust, able to take lots of battle damage.


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## evangilder (Oct 17, 2005)

While I still love the Hellcat, the F4U was the best.


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 17, 2005)

I picked the other,

My choice is P-39 Aircobra,

I just think it was a beautiful plane.


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## FLYBOYJ (Oct 18, 2005)

The P-39 was not a carrier aircraft....


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 18, 2005)

Oh crap i didnt read the subject, 

I just read the "which one do you like better"

In that case my other is the Supermarine Seafire,

Oh crap the Seafire isnt even a USN bird CRAP

Id say the Corsair then.

finally after 2 tries i get it right.

I need to stop drinking that Cheap rye

DAMN IT I meant three tries not Two CRAP

Just brought some more cheap rye from the Liquor Cabinet


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## Wildcat (Oct 18, 2005)

My favourite is .....you guessed it the Wildcat!! I also like the Buffalo and the SBD.


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## Jabberwocky (Oct 18, 2005)

Other- FM-2 the "wilder wildcat"


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## helmitsmit (Oct 18, 2005)

Seafires had a similar problem to the corsairs even more so with the later marks. Big engine a lot of torque narrow track undercarrage


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## lesofprimus (Oct 18, 2005)

> Just brought some more cheap rye from the Liquor Cabinet


Maybe u should grow up and stop drinking, or atleast stop abusing it... No one is impressed by ur drunk or tipsy behavior... Its childish and retarded....

It just makes u out to be an even bigger moron than how u come across...


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## evangilder (Oct 18, 2005)

Les is right. I am certainly not impressed with this or some of your other postings for this time period. Your smart-ass posts with flyboyj in the WWI forum and others have got the admins watching you closely.


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 18, 2005)

Maybe you guys shouldnt be so uptight and realize I was just kidding


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## evangilder (Oct 18, 2005)

Maybe you haven't been around long enough to know that none of the admins here are uptight. Tone it down.


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 18, 2005)

well I was just joking.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 18, 2005)

It wasnt funny.... Remember, ur the new guy here, and first impressions are important, and ur not making a good one...


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## Gnomey (Oct 18, 2005)

Also the first impression is what be remember you by. If it isn't good your reputation will go before you and...


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## MacArther (Oct 18, 2005)

on another note, what kind of impression am I making, cause I'm open to suggestions (not flames)


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## lesofprimus (Oct 18, 2005)

Ur kinda quiet and unnoticed... Im not sure what uve posted...


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## MacArther (Oct 19, 2005)

T___T am I really that unnoticed? DANG IT!!!


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## evangilder (Oct 19, 2005)

That's not a bad thing. I have seen some of your posts and you are doing just fine.


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## MacArther (Oct 19, 2005)

ok, thanks, now Back to topic!!! ::cue dun dun duh dah::


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 19, 2005)

but don't confuse un-noticed with ignored, you're new and un-noticed, i'm one of the most senior members, i'm just ignored


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## evangilder (Oct 19, 2005)

Did someone say something?


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## plan_D (Oct 19, 2005)

No, I just left the front door open. I think it was the wind.


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## evangilder (Oct 19, 2005)

Oh ok. I thought I heard something...


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 20, 2005)

One Question, Why is it that the Carrier planes of the USN during ww2 were so ugly when the USAAF has some pretty spiffy lookin planes.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 20, 2005)

What kind of a retard are u???? The Corsair ugly??? The Hellcat ugly???

Whatever ur smoking, make sure u share with Pisis.... Im sure he'll ALSO love the feeling of being completely outta his mind with no idea wtf he's talking about...


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## MacArther (Oct 20, 2005)

Yes, how can you deny the coolness of the portly F4F3?! Especially with the silver on white color scheme. 
::Note:: scroll down on the provided page to see what I mean, and go to the fighters section for the USA


http://www.kotfsc.com/


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## syscom3 (Oct 20, 2005)

The corsair is ugly. It was called a "hog" for a reason )


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 20, 2005)

syscom3 said:


> The corsair is ugly. It was called a "hog" for a reason )


F***ing right,

If you compare a P-51 or a Spitfire to the Corsair or the Hellcat Is the USN Carrier planes really as beautiful as you guys think.


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 20, 2005)

lesofprimus said:


> What kind of a retard are u???? The Corsair ugly??? The Hellcat ugly???
> 
> Whatever ur smoking, make sure u share with Pisis.... Im sure he'll ALSO love the feeling of being completely outta his mind with no idea wtf he's talking about...



Dont ever call me a retard again,

You can call me anything else when your joking, but I take offense to that particular word.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 20, 2005)

LOL, or what? U'll threaten me again over the internet???

Give it a break puss boy....

Now answer the freakin question... U on crack or weed???


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## lesofprimus (Oct 20, 2005)

And the Corsair was faaarrrr from ugly.... Those gull wings are some of the sexiest curves known to aviation...

And to add alittle humor to the world, My pal Jimmy.......


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## syscom3 (Oct 20, 2005)

If he cocked his arms down a bit, he would have the basic geometry of the Corsair wing, hehehehehhe


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## lesofprimus (Oct 20, 2005)

LMFAO, good one...


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## evangilder (Oct 20, 2005)

I have to agree with Les, The corsair is a Beauty. Don't be dissing my Hellcat!


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## MacArther (Oct 20, 2005)

Anyone check out the sweet paint job on the site I posted? That is one of the best looking planes I've seen in a while (along with the P40 series, the P39, P63......)


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## Gnomey (Oct 20, 2005)

I did MacArther it looks cool . How can anyone say the Corsair is ugly it is great! I can't see how anyone can find it ugly!


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## MacArther (Oct 20, 2005)

I know what you mean Gnomey, between the Cosair and the Wildcat, I don't know which one I could chose cause they look so cool.

PS Gnomey do you know what is ironic about the two planes in your avatar?


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## Gnomey (Oct 20, 2005)

One is a Spitfire the other is a BF109 (or at least a Spanish copy). I don't see anything ironic in my avatar why?


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## MacArther (Oct 20, 2005)

The Bf-109 is using a copy of a british merlin (what ever the hurricane used) engine!


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## Gnomey (Oct 20, 2005)

How can you tell that?? Attached is the full thing.


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## MacArther (Oct 20, 2005)

I had seen a few models made by spain or other countries, the "chin" was larger (as seen in pic), and more forward than the other models. Oh, and how did you get such a cool pic down to 10 KB??? cause I got a great 1, but it is too big


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## Gnomey (Oct 20, 2005)

Resized it down to 100 x 100 pixels in Photoshop. If you shrink the pictures enough the size comes right down


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## plan_D (Oct 20, 2005)

It's a HA-112 'Buchón' (Pigeon), the Spanish copy of the Bf-109 with a Merlin engine. Easily distinguished from the real Bf-109s. 

And the Corsair is not ugly, it's a beautiful plane, as is the Hellcat.


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 20, 2005)

K guys what I mean is,when you compare the USN aircraft to the USAAF aircraft of the time the USN's planes seem not so pert anymore,

And one thing I noticed about everybody here is............

you guys tend to flip out alot.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 20, 2005)

> you guys tend to flip out alot.


Only on newb retards who think they can come into a tight knit community and do and say whatever the hell they want....

And whats with the potleaf??? Ya know, smokin weed dont make u cool... Showing the world u smoke it makes u look even uncooler...


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 20, 2005)

You meen noob not newb,
not unless youre trying to insult me


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 21, 2005)

i believe what he meant was "newbie" meaning you're new here, he just shortened it to "newb"..........


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## evangilder (Oct 21, 2005)

Trust me, that is NOT flipping out. You don't want to go there.


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## MacArther (Oct 21, 2005)

In the words of a comrade: Do not question veterans athorita!!


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 21, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> i believe what he meant was "newbie" meaning you're new here, he just shortened it to "newb"..........



Well there is to words, Newb like you said, and Noob which is a nasty word.


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 21, 2005)

MacArther said:


> In the words of a comrade: Do not question veterans athorita!!



Sounds like something from South Park,

has any1 seen that Team america movie funny stuff.


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 21, 2005)

Y'know? I have nothing against the odd abbreviations like IMO, BTW, WTF, or what have you, but I've never really understood the fascination with that internet crap lingo like n00b, pwn, w00t, and all the other geek-speak. Just type in English for f*ck sakes. 

And Team America was the best! I loved it!


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 21, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Y'know? I have nothing against the odd abbreviations like IMO, BTW, WTF, or what have you, but I've never really understood the fascination with that internet crap lingo like n00b, pwn, w00t, and all the other geek-speak. Just type in English for f*ck sakes.
> 
> And Team America was the best! I loved it!



Sorry man, my 11 year old nephew basically taught me how to use a computer so I picked up some bad habits along the way especially smoking and screaming at the computer screen.


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 21, 2005)

No, I didn't mean you as in you, but you as in the generic "you". You know...the all encompassing "you". 

Christ, sometimes I confuse even myself.


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## 102first_hussars (Oct 21, 2005)

Funny my Mom is a member of an orginzation called DAM

Mothers Against Deslexia


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 21, 2005)

Ha!


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## JCS (Oct 22, 2005)

Corsair for me...


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## ollieholmes (Oct 22, 2005)

id have to say the corsair. mainly for its looks. it wasnt exactly the most pretty or airplanes but like the a-10 it did its job and it did it well.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 23, 2005)

102first_hussars said:


> Funny my Mom is a member of an orginzation called DAM
> 
> Mothers Against Deslexia



damn that's good 

and mine's easily the Avenger.........


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 23, 2005)

Mines the Hellcat.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 23, 2005)

Avenger..........


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 23, 2005)

Nice pic, really puts the scale of the Avenger into perspective.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 23, 2005)

i know i didn't really realise how big they were 'til i saw that pic.......


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## toffigd (Oct 29, 2005)

My choose is Hellcat!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Oct 30, 2005)

i pitty the fool that doesn't vote avenger..........


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## cheddar cheese (Oct 30, 2005)

Seems like you pity 140 fools then.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 30, 2005)

I thought about voting for the Avenger just to let Lanc pity someone!

My vote is for the Corsair.


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## book1182 (Oct 30, 2005)

SBD for the great work is did in sinking carriers off of Midway. Also I think it looks cool with the dive flaps open.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 30, 2005)

The SBD was a good dive bomber, in my opinion the best Naval Dive Bomber.


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## CaptTrego (Nov 3, 2005)

Corsair...Even thou, can be hard to fly!  And, dont get caught trying to turn fight with Zero! LOL

Second choice is the Avenger...


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 3, 2005)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> The SBD was a good dive bomber, in my opinion the best Naval Dive Bomber.




I dont know, the Ju-88 though wasnt a naval aircraft was used as a dive bomber/torpedo bomber and did flippin good in the Mediteranean.


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## trackend (Nov 3, 2005)

The Stringbag also carried out dive bombing but due to the lack of air brakes it was a dodgy maneuver as if the dive speed exceeded much over 200mph the wings could fold, but as the dive was so slow it made it very accurate the normal approach (taken from the book War in a Stringbag) was for the pilot to stand on the rudder bar and sight over the upper wing which must mean the dive angle was pretty acute. That said the SBD was undoubtedly the best of the Naval dive bombers.


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## 102first_hussars (Nov 3, 2005)

Stringbag?


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## trackend (Nov 3, 2005)

Fairey Swordfish 102 (Stringbag is the nick name the pilots gave it as it carried so many different items of ordenance and equipment (its a type of shopping bag))


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## CurzonDax (Nov 3, 2005)

I was a an airshow once and a Corsair starting up drowned out a dozen Harleys. Ticked off the bikers too. Gotta love that!

:{)


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## CurzonDax (Nov 3, 2005)

JU-88 were exellent aircraft and did a good job as an all around attack bomber but it could not compare with tonnage sunk with the SBD. Also the SBD was a more stable and accurate dive bombing platform.

:{)


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## HealzDevo (Nov 6, 2005)

The F4U Corsair carried out some sterling work once the problems were worked out. It was a great aircraft once the pilot became skilled in using the aircraft due to the side slip on the plane. It has a tendency to slip sideways because of the wings, at least it does in FS2002 and it did in MS Combat Ace. Because of this you are mostly doing a lot of correction of flight etc. to avoid rolling.


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## CurzonDax (Nov 14, 2005)

The Corsair was a bitch to land on a deck. First of all, because of the height of the undercarrige, the Oleo struts tended to make the plane bounce like a rubber ball when landing on a carrier. Also there were some instances, if the struts were adjusted too stiff, the impact of landing could hurt the pilot. Also because of the length of the nose the pilot had to approach the deck from an angle and then at the last moment straighten out and land. In top of that it was a big bird, so big that it could not be hung from the storage hooks in hangars until the Midways came along. 

:{)


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## carpenoctem1689 (Nov 17, 2005)

Voted SBD dauntless, something about those inverted gull wings, the bombs slung underneath looking so menacing, and just knowing the look on the faces of the japanese men aboard the four carriers at midway that felt theyre wrath warms my heart.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 19, 2005)

the avenget looks much meaner........

and adler, i pitty only the fools that DON'T vote avenger, if you'd have voted avenger i wouldn't pitty you, but unfortunately for you, you must now feel the wrath of my pitty......


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 19, 2005)

Pitty? WTF?


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## plan_D (Nov 19, 2005)

Haha - you arse, lanc. No blamin' that on a typo 'cos you wrote it three times. It's PITY, you tart.


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## d_bader (Feb 18, 2006)

I have to give it to the hellcat.

Out of the 6,477 confirmed victories by US navy carrier based pilots, the F6F (which only entered the fray on 31 August 1943) gained 4,947


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## militaryguyatl42 (May 23, 2007)

One thing needs to be noted although the F4U did serve aboard carriers towards the end of the war it was primarly land based therefore I must go with the hellcat on this one, and if you look at the kill ratio in air to air combat it far excedes the ratio of the corsair if I am not mistaken.


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## DOUGRD (May 24, 2007)

CurzonDax said:


> The Corsair was a bitch to land on a deck. First of all, because of the height of the undercarrige, the Oleo struts tended to make the plane bounce like a rubber ball when landing on a carrier. Also there were some instances, if the struts were adjusted too stiff, the impact of landing could hurt the pilot. Also because of the length of the nose the pilot had to approach the deck from an angle and then at the last moment straighten out and land. In top of that it was a big bird, so big that it could not be hung from the storage hooks in hangars until the Midways came along.
> 
> :{)


Here I go again being "odd man out". I was stuck between two a/c, the TBM/TBF and the SB2C Helldiver. I actually got to work some on a TBM while I was stationed in Memphis TN. in the early 80's. A gent from Wiener, Arkansas owned it and flew around the mid south to many airshows. Now our friend CurzonDax thinks the F4U is a big bird but you got to climb up on a TBM to really understand what a BIG WW2 carrier A/C is. Wingspan =54' vs the F4U's 41' Length=40' vs the F4U's 33' Height was 16' for both. Climb up and down off an Avenger several times doing some maintenance and you start cursing the designers for not installing an elevator. The SB2C Helldiver I think is one of the more maligned A/C of WW2. As with all A/C it had its teething problems and the military ordered something like 400 changes because the USAAC also used it (for a short time) as the A25 Shrike. Early on the pilots and maintenance personnel referred to the SB2C as the "Son of a Bitch 2nd Class", but from '43 on it flew in nearly every major action in the Pacific war.


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## renrich (May 29, 2007)

Most of the teething problems of the F4U were solved by late 1943 and the Navy decided the Corsair was superior to the Hellcat as a carrier a/c and carriers were to be equipped with Corsairs as soon as was practicable. By that time the Navy had also determined that the Corsair was as good a dive bomber as the SBD because the landing gear could be used as dive brakes and it was a steady diving beast.


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## Marcel (May 30, 2007)

Voted the Wildcat. I saw this plane in a museum in Palm Springs. Small stubby fighter. When I saw the bicycle chain for moving the gear I was sold  Simple and effective! Must have been hard for the pilots though, taking off from a deck, cranking up the gear while still flying low and slow. Something to admire.
The pland stood it's ground against the Zero, quite an accomplishment.


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## Matt308 (Jun 1, 2007)

Think that was a pain? What about the Wildcat's 90 gallon external tank that had to be hand pumped until dry. Now that would be a pain in the @ss.


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## Soundbreaker Welch? (Jun 1, 2007)

I Ike the chubby Hellcat, but the Corsair had the power.


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## Marcel (Jun 2, 2007)

Matt308 said:


> Think that was a pain? What about the Wildcat's 90 gallon external tank that had to be hand pumped until dry. Now that would be a pain in the @ss.




Anyway,   to it's pilots!


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## ToughOmbre (Jun 2, 2007)

*S*low *B*ut *D*eadly

Helldiver was designed to replace it; never could. Probably *not* the favorite of the crewmen on _Kaga, Akagi, Hiryu_ and _Soryu_.


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## ummonk (Nov 22, 2008)

Voted for the Corsair cause it is the collest looking xD.


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## drgondog (Nov 28, 2008)

lesofprimus said:


> Corsair all the way.... The Hellcat is a close second....



Corsair for me.. F6F very important but not close to my 'favorite' naval bird. IMO it (F$U) would have been distinctly superior in the ETO to any other naval fighter in any multi role environment.


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## Messy1 (Nov 28, 2008)

I like both the Hellcat and Corsair, But since I'm partial to anything from Grumman, I picked the Hellcat. One tough, mean plane that took it to the enemy.


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## Catch22 (Nov 29, 2008)

EASILY the F4U. Love that bird, and drgondog nailed it on the head.


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## Burmese Bandit (Dec 5, 2008)

F4U of course...and I see most of the Forum agrees. Tremendous performer, multirole, and it also brought you back home!


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## noelchan127 (Jan 3, 2009)

I like the Wildcat for its chubby and rugged look, and the Hellcat for the kill/death ratio. Anyway i did not vote for the corsair cause its more expensive to produce.8)


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## tomo pauk (Jan 31, 2009)

Avenger is my choice.


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## fly boy (Feb 2, 2009)

SBD


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## dragonandhistail (Feb 4, 2009)

The Hellcat's score in the Pacific speaks for itself. Nothing else came close for ruggedness, ease of operation, and excellence in all categories. Just ask the Japanese at the bottom of the ocean who shot them down?


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## Valo300 (Feb 10, 2009)

I voted Hellcat. Definitely my fave WWII USN carrier plane.


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## Man O War (Feb 10, 2009)

FM2-Yeah, it was only a Wildcat upgrade, but it was a damned good one. If it had been brought into the war 6 months earlier, there would have been a much larger number of aces made.

The more powerful engine and lighter weight created a much better fighter that caught more than a few enemy pilots by surprise. Turn, climb and speed performance were improved quite a bit.

The F4F/FM series produced 25 Navy and 34 Marine aces, several of whom who were awarded the Medal of Honor (eight). Navy pilot Butch O'Hare was the only Navy Wildcat pilot to be so decorated. The medal of Honor was presented to more Wildcat pilots than any other single-engine aircraft flown by the US armed forces in WWII.

Not too shabby!


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## leegn (Feb 23, 2009)

Now that is a lot of brass air fittings that I like to shove in my butt!


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## Messy1 (Feb 24, 2009)

If morons are going to get on here and post utterly and random things, could they at least make some type of sense please?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Feb 24, 2009)

Messy1 said:


> If morons are going to get on here and post utterly and random things, could they at least make some type of sense please?



They are more than likely bots.


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## Messy1 (Feb 24, 2009)

A bot is a program that posts automatically I am guessing? I have heard a little about them.


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## Messy1 (Feb 24, 2009)

Got it now. Read up on them on Wikipedia.


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## snafud1 (Jun 9, 2009)

Corsair for me. First, it just looks cool. Second, 11to 1 kill ratio. Third, fast and maneuverable. Need I say more.


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## TenGunTerror (Jul 2, 2009)

F4F3 because it carried the war load for many years of the war and served on the front lines bravely


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## Vincenzo (Jul 2, 2009)

for true imho the F4F-3 was not common after the first year of war.
for the poll creator why we can choice from F4F-3 and F4F-4, but only a variant of helcatt, and a generic for corsair?
and only one for torpedo and dive bomber?


p.s. obv. dautless was dauntless


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## Vincenzo (Jul 2, 2009)

US Navy combat carrier plane
Dauntless (Scout Bomber officially)
Helldiver (Scout Bomber officially)
Devastator (Torpedo Bomber officially)
Avenger(Torpedo Bomber officially)
Wildcat (Fighter)
Corsair (Fighter)
Hellcat (Fighter)


p.s. all this have some variants


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## Smoke (Jun 23, 2010)

I chose the F4F-4, for a couple of reasons:

1. I've always liked the Wildcat, I think it looks better than the Hellcat and the Corsair.

2. The F4F-4 was one of the planes my Great Uncle flew as a Marine during WWII (of course, he also flew the Hellcat and the Corsair, not the mention several more planes after WWII, the Wildcat is just my favorite.


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## dennis420b (Jun 26, 2010)

F4F4.I like the underdog. At a time when the Japanese swept the allies from the sky's the definitive Wildcat was the little engine that could... sort of. Plus 2 extra .50cal's, what not to like about that?


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## stug3 (Nov 14, 2010)

dennis420b said:


> F4F4.I like the underdog. At a time when the Japanese swept the allies from the sky's the definitive Wildcat was the little engine that could... sort of. Plus 2 extra .50cal's, what not to like about that?



Less total ammo capacity than the 4 gun F4F-3 and lower speed, etc. due to the added weight of the folding wings, extra guns, etc. Anyway, the F6F 19-1 kill ratio compared to the F4U 11-1 kill ratio makes it pretty obvious which was the most successful USN fighter. Certainly the F4U could fly higher faster, but the pilots generally considered the F6F a joy to fly.


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## P40NUT (Nov 15, 2010)

F4U all the way....


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## renrich (Nov 16, 2010)

Actually, the two extra guns in the F4F4 with less ammo per gun was not universally liked by USN pilots. It was a result of the British determination to have six guns and a few late model F4F4s reverted to the four guns as well as the FMs.


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## Coy (Mar 10, 2011)

F4U 'Corsair'


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## N4521U (Mar 10, 2011)

I think it the F-4u because I grew up near the Alameda Naval Air Station in California. One of my classmates dad was a Corsair pilot stationed there. On occasion we would go to the base swimming pool and I remember watching them land. These big smoke belching beautiful blue birds. Loved it!!!!!!!!!!!


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## R Leonard (Mar 10, 2011)

F4U or FG, or even F3A, but not F-4U


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## parsifal (Mar 11, 2011)

well I thought it (Dans payout on hussars) was funny, for what its worth. Maybe the Corsair is more mean than ugly


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## N4521U (Mar 11, 2011)

From R Lennard....... "F4U or FG, or even F3A, but not F-4U"

Could have been my fat fingers. or maybe just a brain fart. Mate!
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You touch that switch and you brain will blow up


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## R Leonard (Mar 11, 2011)

> You touch that switch and you brain will blow up



yeah, I found that out all by myself


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## Ruud (Mar 12, 2011)

F4U - liked it from an early age. It just has that "look" of a great fighter. Took a while to get it on the carriers, but can't deny what it could do in the air.


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## hern07 (Aug 24, 2011)

Wildcat, it was there when it was needed.


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## jeff gutierrez (Aug 24, 2011)

the corsair had it in spades speed. fire power. agility. strength. and some of the greatest pilots ever but the hellcat has to be considered hand in hand with the the bent wing bird. how do you argue the fact that the f6f created more aces than any other fighter in the us each plane had its reasons for being on this list and all served our country well guess iam late to the party but just found this forum


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## oldcrowcv63 (Feb 4, 2012)

The F4F-3 because it was the model of the Wildcat that had the best climb rate until the advent of the FM-2. If the USN had kept the -3, or better, kept a mix of folding wing and non-folding wing F4Fs using the former for Escort and the latter for CAP, I believe Hornet would have survived WWII or at least the Santa Cruz battle. The FM-1 appearing in September 1942 should have been a better plane than the F4F-4 if it used a reduced ammo load, and would have therefore possessed a better climb-rate. The USN CV's needed a decent climbing fighter as an interceptor and the F4F-4 was a step backward. By the time the FM-1 came into being, the F6F filled the bill nicely. All F4Fs were adaquate fighters (each version having some disdavantage) but, in general, terrible interceptors. This was less true of the -3 than the others until the FM-2.


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## pbfoot (Feb 4, 2012)

jeff gutierrez said:


> the corsair had it in spades speed. fire power. agility. strength. and some of the greatest pilots ever but the hellcat has to be considered hand in hand with the the bent wing bird. how do you argue the fact that the f6f created more aces than any other fighter in the us each plane had its reasons for being on this list and all served our country well guess iam late to the party but just found this forum


is it possible that the Hellcat created the most aces due to the fact that they were shooting down clay pigeons IMHO


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## renrich (Feb 4, 2012)

In comparing F4U and F6F, it looks cut and dried, according to raw statistics, but perhaps not.

The F6F flew in WW2 66530 action sorties and was credited with 5257 kills and lost to E/A 270 Hellcats.
The F4U flew in WW2 64051 action sorties and was credited with 2155 kills and lost to E/A 189 Corsairs. Looks like clear advantage to Hellcat.
But hold the phone!
F6F was credited with 1445 bombers and 3718 fighters.
F4U was credited with 478 bombers and 1562 fighters.
So it appears that Corsair were more likely to encounter fighters than bombers.
What the heck was the Corsair doing all during the war?
Well for one thing the Corsair dropped 15621 tons of bombs while the Hellcat dropped 6503 tons.
Corsair first saw combat in February, 1943 while Hellcats saw combat first in August, 1943.
It is well known that the quality of IJN pilots declined sharply during and after the Guadalcanal Campaign so it is probable that the Corsair pilots faced at least for a time more formidable opposition than Hellcat pilots did.


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## oldcrowcv63 (Feb 4, 2012)

renrich said:


> It is well known that the quality of IJN pilots declined sharply during and after the Guadalcanal Campaign so it is probable that the Corsair pilots faced at least for a time more formidable opposition than Hellcat pilots did.



That is just the case that Blackburn made in Jolly Rogers. he felt that his USN Corsairs of VF-17 and Boynton's VMF-214 were the flyers that really broke the back of IJN fighter aviation. Although, it is also true that Lt. Col. Joe Bauer told his pilots on or about Oct 17, 1942, "when you see Zeroes, dog fight 'em!" so the marines wildcats must have been contributing significantly to some of the general attriting of IJN fighter pilot quality.

I suspect Rich Leonard will rightly include his dad's landbased VF-11 Sundowners (wildcats) in this gallery.


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## renrich (Feb 5, 2012)

Interestingly, the USN flew only 1269 action sorties from landbases in Corsairs but they were credited with 19 bombers and 141 fighters during those sorties. I expect that most of those sorties were during the Guadalcanal Campaign.
The Marines flew 52852 action sorties from landbases in Corsairs and were credited with 300 bombers and 1100 fighters.

From looking at these statistics ( from Naval Aviation Combat Statistics, WW2) I am concluding that the Corsair was a much more lethal ACM AC than the Hellcat.


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## renrich (Feb 5, 2012)

OK, just reviewing the stats from Naval Aviation Combat Statistics and here is one that will blow your hat in the creek.
Remember that Navy Corsairs flew 1269 land based action sorties and were credited with 19 bombers and 141 fighters. They lost 14 Corsairs to E/A. Pretty good ratio.

But, Marine F4Fs and these would mostly be the dog, F4F4, that our friends the Brits insisted on loading up with two extra guns flew only 1074 landbased action sorties. They were credited with 175 bombers and 281 fighters. So, based on that the F4F was more lethal than the F4U. However the Marines lost 75 F4Fs to E/A.

Don't know why I never noticed this before.


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## oldcrowcv63 (Feb 5, 2012)

renrich said:


> OK, just reviewing the stats from Naval Aviation Combat Statistics and here is one that will blow your hat in the creek.
> Remember that Navy Corsairs flew 1269 land based action sorties and were credited with 19 bombers and 141 fighters. They lost 14 Corsairs to E/A. Pretty good ratio.
> 
> But, Marine F4Fs and these would mostly be the dog, F4F4, that our friends the Brits insisted on loading up with two extra guns flew only 1074 landbased action sorties. They were credited with 175 bombers and 281 fighters. So, based on that the F4F was more lethal than the F4U. However the Marines lost 75 F4Fs to E/A.
> ...



I am not sure anyone has noticed this! This is something of a puzzle and I have to wonder if it is a combination of pilot training programs producing better pilots during a period when there were more enemy aircraft around to engage? I am thinking specifically of the defensive portion of the Guadacanal campaign which, in its later stages was producing a fair number of aces and with RADAR dirrected intercepts, allowed the F4F time to climb to favorable intercept geometry. Once perched on high, I can't help but think almost any USN aircraft would be essentially equally lethal with only marginal performance related differences. 

These differences might become more noticable when USN air forces were engaged in offensive operations with USN aircraft defining the rules and circumstances of the engagements. In other words challenging the enemy essentially on equal terms. The latter being something the F4F might be less successful in accomplishing. Just thinking about your surprising post and wondering what it might mean....


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## renrich (Feb 6, 2012)

Upon reflection, Number one- This shows how almost any premise can be "proved" by statistics. Number two- My guess is that the Marine F4Fs in the landbased action sorties were operating in a target rich environment ( and some of the time they were the target!) Those 1074 sorties had to be primarily the Guadalcanal campaign with a sprinkling of the Midway action. The F2A had 25 action sorties landbased with the Marines and had 14 losses by E/A. They were credited with 6 bombers and 4 fighters downed. Which sounds very suspect to me if that was all the Midway action.

Anyway the F4F, even taking the credits with a sack of salt, during it's landbased Marine action sorties, at the very least held it's own against probably Zekes. It would be instructive to try to compare those landbased action sorties and the results with all the other Allied fighters and their encounters with Zekes during that time period. Methinks the lowly, corpulent, Wildcat, even in the F4F4 version is very underrated. Either that or the Marine and USN pilots were superior practitioners of their craft.


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## oldcrowcv63 (Feb 6, 2012)

renrich said:


> Upon reflection, Number one- This shows how almost any premise can be "proved" by statistics.



Amen! Figures lie and liars figure! 



renrich said:


> Number two- My guess is that the Marine F4Fs in the landbased action sorties were operating in a target rich environment ( and some of the time they were the target!)



For sure!



renrich said:


> Anyway the F4F, even taking the credits with a sack of salt, during it's landbased Marine action sorties, at the very least held it's own against probably Zekes. It would be instructive to try to compare those landbased action sorties and the results with all the other Allied fighters and their encounters with Zekes during that time period. Methinks the lowly, corpulent, Wildcat, even in the F4F4 version is very underrated. Either that or the Marine and USN pilots were superior practitioners of their craft.



I suspect it was a combination of those two factors. The growing skill of USN/USMC pilots and the robust and agile F4F which I have heard enjoyed considerable respect on the part of the IJN pilots who fought it. I also think the RADAR warning contributed greatly by providing them with advantageous geometry to meet the enemy on terms favorable to the F4F.


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