# WW1 Bombers



## djd (Mar 10, 2007)

This is my first post so I hope this is the right place for this topic. A while back I saw the movie "Flyboys" about WW1 fighter pilots. During the bombing raids I did not notice any bombs being carried under the wings of the planes. Was this just a movie error or did planes of this vintage have bomb bays as did later aircraft in WWII? It had been my opinion that all bombs during WW1 were either dropped from the cockpit or were attached under the wings.


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## FLYBOYJ (Mar 10, 2007)

It depended on the bomber. It seems both allied and axis bombers of WW1 carried their bombs at the lower wing close to the fuselage. Here's a great site about WW1...Welcome to The Aerodrome - Aces and Aircraft of World War I


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## Jackson (Mar 11, 2007)

oopps EDIT, wrong first 4 engine bomber link for the Brits


Handley Page V/1500

We also have a few relics of the even larger, 38m (126ft) span, Handley Page V/1500. This Rolls-Royce Eagle powered, long-range bomber of 1918 was the first British bomber with four engines, but was short-lived. 

At the time of the Armistice, three V/1500s were operational, with No.166 Squadron at Bircham Newton in Norfolk, and were standing by to bomb Berlin, from the United Kingdom. This was possible due to their 2,092km (1,300 mile) range, and this just 15 years after the Wright Brothers first managed a few hundred feet! As ever, War had proved a great incentive for aeronautical development. 

The last RAF V/1500 served at Martlesham Heath until mid 1921





or this beast

The S-6 with a 100 hp Argus engine flew in November 1911. In 1912, Igor Sikorsky became Chief Engineer for the aircraft factory of the Russian Baltic Railroad Car Factory in Petrograd. His S-6-B won a small order from the Russian Army, and the factory governing society approved construction of a large, four-engined airplane. With a wingspan of 89 ft. and a gross weight around 9,000 lb., Mr. Sikorsky's S-21 was simply The Grand. When it first flew on May 13, 1913, Igor Sikorsky became the world's first four-engine pilot. The bigger S-22 was dubbed the II'ya Muromets and in December 1913 began flying passengers. A bomber version flew in 1914 and went to war with the Imperial Russian Air Force in 1915. 


wiki

The Il'ya Muromets aircraft was the worlds first four-engine bomber and was used to form the worlds first dedicated strategic bombing unit. The plane was named after a hero from Russian mythology Ilya Muromets.[1]


Sikorsky Ilya Muromets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Our History


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## djd (Mar 11, 2007)

So there were no bombers with bomb bays in WWI?? All bombs were carried under the wings? This raises the next question about who invented the bomb bay door and on which aircraft was it first used? Probably too much to cover here.


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## HealzDevo (Mar 27, 2007)

I do know that some WWI aircraft had a hole that could be opened and a cradle from which a bomb could be released. I suppose a lot of this depends on the individual pilot. The pilot could have made the alteration to the aircraft which could be construed as bomb-bay doors. But I don't really think it was a widespread design feature by all means.


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## NightFlightAs (Jun 7, 2008)

Germany big bombers (WWI)












Forum Eerste Wereldoorlog :: Bekijk onderwerp - Grootste vliegtuig uit WOI crashte te Poelkapelle


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## NightFlightAs (Jun 7, 2008)

Sikorsky Ilya Muromets


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## trackend (Jun 7, 2008)

The Vickers Vimy was one of the more successful bombers of WW1 and reliable enough to make the first trans Atlantic crossing by a plane
This weekend a replica is flying at the Biggin Hill airshow


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## NightFlightAs (Jun 7, 2008)

Handley Page 0/400


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## Graeme (Jun 8, 2008)

NightFlightAs said:


> Handley Page 0/400



Hi 'NightFlightAs',

Do you have more on the 0/400 photo? If you view the "original image" you can just make out two American flags on the noseand I'm wondering if it's the_ Langley,_ one of eight(?) 0/400s produced by the Standard Aircraft Corporation in New Jersey. Anyone know if it was one of the three used in Mitchell's air-power demonstrations?... 

http://www.mind42.com/wiki/Billy_Mitchell

_



"By noon, Ostfriesland had settled two more feet by the stern and one foot by the bow. At this point, 2,000 lb bombs were loaded and* a flight of three Handley-Page O/400* and eight NBS-1 bombers led by Capt. Walter Lawson dropped six in quick succession, aiming for the water near the ship. There were no direct hits but three of the bombs landed close enough to rip hull plates as well as cause the ship to roll over. The ship sank in 21 minutes, with a seventh bomb dropped on the foam rising up from the sinking ship. Nearby the site, observing, were various foreign and domestic officials aboard the USS Henderson. One man present was a representative of the Japanese navy: Captain Osami Nagano. Nagano was quoted in a local paper as saying there was "much to be learned here." Years later, Nagano helped plan the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor."

Click to expand...

_





The end of the_ Langley_?...

HANDLEY PAGE BOMBER 3


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## NightFlightAs (Jun 9, 2008)

Hi, Graeme!

Unfortunately I am not the expert on aircraft of allies in WWI. My hobby Russian and foreign pilots on all fronts WWI and Civil war in Russia. 

I give references to those resources that has given search on Yahoo web search:











HANDLEY PAGE

Handley Page 0/400

Handley Page 0/100 and 0/400

ADF Aircraft Serial Numbers

Handley Page Type O - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ch2-3

The Aircraft of the Australian Flying Corps 1914 -1919

First World War (WWI) Planes -- Great War Flying Museum

British Airways Museum Collection - 1920 - 1930 Images

Scratchbuilding a 1/48 Handley Page 0/400


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## HealzDevo (Jun 10, 2008)

So what were the common bomb-bay methods used during WW1? Can anyone tell me that? Healz.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 10, 2008)

HealzDevo said:


> So what were the common bomb-bay methods used during WW1? Can anyone tell me that? Healz.


Bomb racks on the exterior belly of the aircraft.


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## NightFlightAs (Jun 10, 2008)

HealzDevo said:


> So what were the common bomb-bay methods used during WW1? Can anyone tell me that? Healz.



At allies precisely I do not know, and at Russian...



> ...Sikorsky has improved the car tactically - instead of one heavy bomb the plane began to bear cartridges about 8 100 kg or 14 50 kg bombs. It the first has applied system of cassette bombing allowed to strike the massed blows to congestions of armies, tanks, artillery positions...
> 
> In 1916 has appeared "IM-P1", bearing an automatic gun, a large-caliber defensive machine gun, 16 bombs, everyone in weight on 50кг, 6 rockets of calibre 127мм, for bombing began to apply cartridges with the vertical suspension bracket, equipped with an electrotripper device, and two dynamo-jet of a gun Kurchevsky, - to steam of heavy bombers was on force to stop approach of the opponent or to clear away a way to the armies...


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## Graeme (Jun 10, 2008)

djd said:


> This raises the next question about who invented the bomb bay door and on which aircraft was it first used?



More than likely "djd" is no longer with us any more, but his original question has been driving me nuts! Google isn't helping, but I've come to the conclusion that the Zeppelin Staaken RVI of 1917 (see photos above) must be a likely contender for the title. It had nine bomb bays *with doors*, each holding two 220lb bombs. The release mechanism was situated in the nose cockpit.
Some Handley-Page, Avro and Sopwith bombers, had internal compartments for bomb storage, either vertically or horizontally mounted, (but I don't know if they had doors), but as Joe has pointed out, the vast majority were externally mounted.


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## HealzDevo (Jun 11, 2008)

Ah, ok, thank-you for this information. Healz.


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## NightFlightAs (Jun 17, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Hi 'NightFlightAs',
> 
> Do you have more on the 0/400 photo? If you view the "original image" you can just make out two American flags on the noseand I'm wondering if it's the_ Langley,_ one of eight(?) 0/400s produced by the Standard Aircraft Corporation in New Jersey. Anyone know if it was one of the three used in Mitchell's air-power demonstrations?...
> 
> http://www.mind42.com/wiki/Billy_Mitchell



More...
















Rosebud's WWI and Early Aviation Image Archive


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## Haztoys (Jun 17, 2008)

Good to have you here NightFlight....Not anuff stuff on ww1 around here ..Some thing I'm starting to get into...And the Russian info is something we need around here too...

Now there was a bomber that had like three smaller plane that were on the wings of the bomber...Like a flying aircraft carrier..I "think" it was Russian..

You Russians realy had some wild and innovative planes at that time ..


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## NightFlightAs (Jun 17, 2008)

And how to you this creation?

"Huge К-7 Russian designer Konstantin Kalinin. The plane with take-off weight of 38 tons lifted in air nearby 130 persons or 10 tons of aerial bombs. And it in the early thirties! Defensive arms of this giant about 12 fire nests (were supposed to finish 8 guns of calibre of 20 mm and 8 machine guns of calibre of 7,62 mm). For delivery of marksmen to two tail machine guns even the special electrocart moving on cables in a tail beam has been designed. In sense of defence the plane practically had no «dead zones», and any point raked at least three arrow that raised reliability of its protection - and it for nine years before occurrence legendary American «a flying fortress» Boeing B-17."


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## Haztoys (Jun 17, 2008)

Now there we go .. Now thats a BIG plane ..I've often wondered were the Russians would be if Stalin had not got in power .. They were realy on a roll in the 20's and 30's...More Mr Night Flght..


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## Graeme (Jun 17, 2008)

Haztoys said:


> Now there was a bomber that had like three smaller plane that were on the wings of the bomber...Like a flying aircraft carrier..I "think" it was Russian..



Hi Haztoys. Were you thinking of Tupolev's parasite experiments?









Tupolev TB-3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

Parasite aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## HealzDevo (Jun 18, 2008)

I think I saw one with about four fighters attached from the 1930s Russia but can't remember what it was...


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## NightFlightAs (Jun 18, 2008)

And you have paid attention in the article mentioned by you 
Parasite aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
on very interesting airplane "Bristol Scout on Felixstowe Porte Baby first composite aircraft"? 
And it flied in 1916!


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## Graeme (Jun 18, 2008)

NightFlightAs said:


> My hobby Russian and foreign pilots on all fronts WWI and Civil war in Russia.



Hi NightFlightAs.

I think you should start a thread on this subject. It would be interesting.

By the way. Remember this photograph you uploaded on the previous page? I'm pretty sure it's not from the Handley Page stable, but is in fact a Blackburn product. The Blackburn General Purpose...

Blackburn General Purpose - patrol bomber seaplane


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## Haztoys (Jun 18, 2008)

Graeme said:


> Hi NightFlightAs.
> 
> I think you should start a thread on this subject. It would be interesting.




And I'll even say ..Please... ...

It must of been a real trick to fly those big boys... Planes on the top of the wings would be a little top heavy.. 

Onthe K-7 the first pic show something on the roof ..Looks like big guns..I'll give the Russians one thing ..They will try anything ..And thats a good thing in my book...


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## HealzDevo (Jun 20, 2008)

That wasn't the one I was talking about. This one is Russian and it is a very old photo. There are definately four fighters under the wing. I really can't remember what it was but the photo you posted was not the configuration I have. I'll have to try and dig out the photo...


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## Kruska (Jun 21, 2008)

Hello HealzDevo,

I think it is this aircraft you had in mind:

Unreal Aircraft - Flying Forever - Vakhmistrov Parasite Fighters






Regards
Kruska


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## HealzDevo (Jun 24, 2008)

Yes, that is exactly it. I remember seeing this one somewhere and it stuck in my head. Certainly impressive with five attached fighters...


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## NightFlightAs (Jun 24, 2008)

> Originally Posted by Graeme
> Hi 'NightFlightAs',
> 
> Do you have more on the 0/400 photo? If you view the "original image" you can just make out two American flags on the noseand I'm wondering if it's the Langley, one of eight(?) 0/400s produced by the Standard Aircraft Corporation in New Jersey. Anyone know if it was one of the three used in Mitchell's air-power demonstrations?...
> ...



And more...Handley-Page-0/400














All photo WW1 Aircraft:
HistoricAircraft.org


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## HealzDevo (Jun 26, 2008)

Nice pictures those. Period Photos of course?


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## Bigxiko (Jul 5, 2008)

those things were enormous and scary, i would never fly in one of those
afterall there were no parachute at that time, you would have to be very vrave to fly those planes


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 5, 2008)

There were parachutes at that time. Most pilots in WW1 did not have them though because there was no room in the cockpit for them.

Parachutes had been around since 1603 when Štefan Banič successfully demonstrated one in Bratislava, Slovakia. Faust Vrančić actually invented a parachute in 1595.

The modern parachute dates back to 1783.

During WW1 most airman equiped with parachutes were in the Balloons or Zeppelins.

Later in 1918 the German Luftwaffe was the first airforce to issue them to all air crew members.


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## Bigxiko (Jul 6, 2008)

thanks for the information, i was simply basing my theory on the movie "Flyboys" 
but still, you've to agree, those huge planes were a little unsafe


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## HealzDevo (Jul 6, 2008)

I also thought it was because of the dangers that the parachute still held. I mean I can remember that Russian experiments with parachutes and even in America consisted of gathering volunteers and most ended up dying or being disfigured.


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## CharlesBronson (Apr 30, 2016)

Haztoys said:


> Now there we go .. Now thats a BIG plane ..I've often wondered were the Russians would be if Stalin had not got in power .. They were realy on a roll in the 20's and 30's...More Mr Night Flght..




Real 1918 footage of the Handley page 0/400


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vppMPUPQDH0_


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## johnbr (Nov 24, 2016)




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## Graeme (Nov 24, 2016)

The Bleriot 67 John?

Blériot 67 - Wikipedia

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


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## CharlesBronson (Nov 27, 2016)

What the hecK was THAT !!!!?????? seems like a drawing of a 5 years old, amazing bird.


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## Gnomey (Nov 27, 2016)

Good stuff!


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## johnbr (Dec 9, 2016)

Siemens-Schuckert R.VIII R23/16, 1918 
he Siemens-Schuckert R.VIII was a bomber aircraft designed and built in Germany from 1916.

Armed with the experience gained in the development of the Steffen R series, Siemens-Schuckert felt confident in their ability to produce even larger bombers. Their next project was developing a new design that dwarfed anything they had previously built. Their plan was to produce a six engined Riesenflugzeug for the Military Air Service.As with many of the other contemporary R projects the R.VIII had all six engines inside the fuselage, where they were tended by mechanics, driving two tractor and two pusher propellers, mounted between the mainplanes, via leather cone clutches combining gearboxes, shafts and bevel gearboxes. Two aircraft were built but only the first, R23/16, was completed. Ground trials began in 1919, after the armistice. The trials were interrupted by a gearbox failure which resulted in a propeller breaking up and causing extensive damage to the aircraft.

The second airframe, R24/16 was never completed and the first not repaired after the ground running accident due to the Versaille Treaty restrictions. At the time of its completion the Siemens-Schuckert R.VIII was the largest complete aeroplane in the world, (the Mannesman-Poll triplane was to have been much bigger but was not completed before the Versaille Treaty restrictions were applied).


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## johnbr (Dec 9, 2016)

Zeppelin-Staaken R.XIV 

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA6WDcqLXKM_


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## johnbr (Dec 9, 2016)

SPECIFICATIONS

Type: Staaken R.XIV
Manufacturer: Zeppelin-Werke G.m.b.H., Staaken, Berlin
Engines: Five 245 h.p. Maybach Mb.IVa engines
Dimensions:
Span, 42•2 m. (138 ft. 5 1/2 in.)
Chord inner, 4•6 m. (15ft. 1 in.)
Chord outer, 3•6 m. (11 ft. 10 in.)
Gap maximum, 4•6 m. (15 ft. 1 in.)
Gap minimum, 3•8 m. (12 ft. 5 1/2 in.)
Dihedral upper, none
Dihedral lower, 2 degrees
Sweepback, 1 1/2 degree
Incidence inner, 3 1/2 degrees
Incidence outer, 1 degree
Length, 22•5 m. (73 ft. 10 in.)
Height, 6•3 m. (20 ft. 8 in.)
Tractor propeller diameter, 4•1 m. (13 f1. 5 1/2 in.)
Nacelle tractor propeller diameter, 3•25 m. (10 ft. 7 1/2 in.)
Nacelle pusher propeller diameter, 4•3 m. (14 ft. 1 in.)
Wheel diameter, 1•3 m. (4 ft. 3 in.)
Areas: Wings, 334 sq. m. (3594 sq. ft.)
Weights:
Empty, 10,350 kg. (22,822 lb.)
Loaded, 14,450 kg. (31,862 lb.)
Performance:
Maximum speed, 130 km.h. (80,8 m.p.h.)
Climbing speed, 100 km.h. (62,1 m.p.h.)
Climb with load, 3000 m. (9843 ft.) in 70 min.
Ceiling, 3700 m. (12,140 ft.)
Range with 1000 kg. bombs, 1300 km. (808 miles)
Fuel: 3150 litres (693 Imp. Gals.)
Armament: Provision for dorsal, ventral and two upper-wing machine-gun positions
Service Use: Western Front with Rfa 500 and Rfa 501 August-November 1918


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## Wurger (Dec 10, 2016)




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## soulezoo (Feb 1, 2017)

Amazing pictures.

I am partial to the Handley Page 0/400...

I got to catch one (on way to an airshow somewhere) and marshal it to the parking space at Travis AFB around '89-90. (IIRC)

The engines were Chevy 454 cid. Very cool to be around!


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