# Pristine F4U Vought Corsair



## Wausau (Aug 1, 2010)

Sorry, I didn't know where else to ask this question and since I'm new to this I thought this looked to be the place. 

If I wished to go out and purchase a flyable, pristine WWII F4U Vought Corsair where would I look and how much would the price tag of such an item be? 

Thanks for any and all help.


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## Crimea_River (Aug 1, 2010)

I wish I could do that too but don't have a million bucks 'til my next paycheck.

If you're serious about this, there are several magazines like "Warbirds" that, I think, have classifieds.


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## Aaron Brooks Wolters (Aug 1, 2010)

You might try this website if you are serious about this. I have not had a chance to look at it. As far as the price I would just be guessing but, and if I'm wrong someone please correct me, 2 or 3 million is probably on the low side, maybe even to low.


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## Matt308 (Aug 2, 2010)

"If you have to ask, you don't qualify to purchase"


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## N4521U (Aug 2, 2010)

Well now.
Go to the nearest air show,
and ask at the gate which Corsairs are for sale!


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## beaupower32 (Aug 2, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> "If you have to ask, you don't qualify to purchase"



Agreed!

Just parts alone would become expensive. He better have deep pockets or a magic lamp if he is really serious.


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## r2800doublewasp (Aug 2, 2010)

If you do buy one definitely post it!


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## timshatz (Aug 2, 2010)

Don't know any F4Us for sale. Last I heard was about 2 years ago. Only "reasonable" fighter war bird (less than a million) I know of is the Yak 3. Here is a link:

N854DP YAK 3M Specs

One thing, buying isn't the same as being able to fly it. The last of the Piston engined fighters were very high powered, tricky airplanes to fly. It takes a lot of practice and training. But, if you have the money, you'll be able to afford it.


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## twoeagles (Aug 2, 2010)

A year ago Courtesy listed an F4U in recent pristine restoration status for a little over 2 Million. Also try this link for Warbird sales Warbirds for Sale, Vintage Aircraft for Sale, Aircraft Sale


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## Capt. Vick (Aug 2, 2010)

Oh brother, another one of these...


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## ccheese (Aug 4, 2010)

Capt. Vick said:


> Oh brother, another one of these...






Charles


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## Matt308 (Aug 5, 2010)

Okay. Reluctantly, I must break out the shovel.


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## RabidAlien (Aug 5, 2010)

Capt. Vick said:


> Oh brother, another one of these...



My thoughts, too...


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## Freebird (Aug 22, 2010)

Wausau said:


> If I wished to go out and purchase a flyable, pristine WWII F4U Vought Corsair where would I look and how much would the price tag of such an item be?



I've got a couple in my backyard..... 



Matt308 said:


> Okay. Reluctantly, I must break out the shovel.






Just curious, I see from TwoEagles's link, they had an A-26 for sale, but no price listed. Does anyone know if there have been any US twins sold lately? Marauder, Mitchell, Invader etc. 
Are they worth about $3 - $4 million?


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 22, 2010)

GLobal Plane Search has several A-26's for sale ranging form $125k to $500k

There is an He 115 project listed that I would kill for.


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## robwkamm (Aug 23, 2010)

that he 115 would be sweet. ill go half in with you. do they take personal checks?  do you have any pics of the actual project plane they are selling? its got to be the only one left in the world. i think the Spad is a good buy. ive seen it at air shows. bad as..


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## vikingBerserker (Aug 23, 2010)

Hey I'm in!


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Aug 24, 2010)

Matt308 said:


> "If you have to ask, you don't qualify to purchase"





So true!


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## renrich (Aug 26, 2010)

Anyone serious only has to google Corsairs for sale and there is a list available. I can' t remember exactly but I believe that Paul Mantz and Frank Tallman bought a few Corsairs, probably after the Korean War for around $375 each and the gas tank was full.


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## Catch22 (Aug 26, 2010)

renrich said:


> Anyone serious only has to google Corsairs for sale and there is a list available. I can' t remember exactly but I believe that Paul Mantz and Frank Tallman bought a few Corsairs, probably after the Korean War for around $375 each and the gas tank was full.



I think you're right. Most (or all) of those Corsairs ended up being used in the Black Sheep Squadron TV series.


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## cptsmith (Sep 26, 2010)

At one time we had 3 in the shop. Well more of one fairly complete, one crash and burn fuselage section and a cockpit/tail section.


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## tail end charlie (Sep 26, 2010)

timshatz said:


> One thing, buying isn't the same as being able to fly it. The last of the Piston engined fighters were very high powered, tricky airplanes to fly. It takes a lot of practice and training. But, if you have the money, you'll be able to afford it.



Its an old post but very true

Paul Morgan who founded Ilmor racing (now makers of Mercedes F1 engines) died when his sea fury overturned on landing. Tragic end for both man and machine.


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## mikewint (Sep 28, 2010)

OK, money talks, given enough money you can buy anything, and Timshatz makes an excellent point.
if i had 10 mil or so burning a hole in my pocket i could probably buy that F4U somewhere. so as a serious question - Where would you go to learn to fly it, even if you already knew how to fly, mil planes are a whole different machine and a single seat fighter leaves no room for someone to sit next to you and instruct


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## Matt308 (Sep 28, 2010)

That is why most pilots are hired hands. It's a logical progression wherein you work your way up in horsepower, size, gross weight, systems/propulsioni similarity and handling qualities. It's not magic, only time consuming and expensive.

There is a reason that we fund CSAR and will spend millions getting a pilot back.


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## mikewint (Sep 28, 2010)

Matt, i understand that. in vietnam that was one of our jobs. AF or Navy SAR was given 48h to locate a downed pilot after that our teams were called in. sometimes earlier if ground contact had been made.
my question goes back to suddenly owning an F4U and what tim said. just because i can fly a cessna does not mean i can jump into an F4U and fly it. so where do you find people today that know how to fly an F4U? and German aircraft are a whole other question


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## evangilder (Sep 28, 2010)

From the FAA:


> B. To be eligible to serve as PIC of a surplus military propeller-driven airplane that has a maximum gross takeoff weight exceeding 12,500 pounds, or which has a horsepower rating of more than 800 horsepower and a VNE that exceeds 250 knots, an applicant must:
> 
> · Possess at least a U.S. private pilot certificate with an appropriate category and class rating (e.g., airplane, single-engine land);
> 
> ...



Typically, you find a warbird examiner that gives you a "check out" on the aircraft for a type rating. Depending on the aircraft, or rarity of it, you could have some difficulty finding someone who can do that (although I think Joe probably has way more knowledge on that than I do).

If you have some time to kill and can wangle through the legal stuff, it is covered pretty well here:
Raptor Aviation, LLC FAA warbird airmen certification rules


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## tail end charlie (Sep 28, 2010)

evangilder said:


> From the FAA:
> 
> 
> Typically, you find a warbird examiner that gives you a "check out" on the aircraft for a type rating. Depending on the aircraft, or rarity of it, you could have some difficulty finding someone who can do that (although I think Joe probably has way more knowledge on that than I do).
> ...



With regard to this there was a documentary on UK TV about female ferry pilots, they were expected to fly any plane put in front of them, just from the ferry pilots notes. This went from spitfires to multi engined bombers . One woman flew 46 different marques during the war, they suffered a 10% fatality rate from start to end of the war.


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## mikewint (Sep 28, 2010)

evan, thanks, if i'm reading those regs correctly you can do your training in a Texan and then to the corsair. guess the FAA feels if you can fly the Texan you can keep from killing yourself and others long enough to learn the idiosyncrasies of the F4U.
learning to fly a plane is on my bucket list, a nice biplane would be really neat


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## evangilder (Sep 29, 2010)

Yeah, a lot of guys flying the warbirds today started with Texans. The CAF has had a lot of people go that route. With the CAF, you need a bunch of hours, plus the extra insurance and aircraft sponsorship (meaning you contribute x amount of dollars to help keep the airplane running) before you can get a chance to fly one of the rare birds.


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## mikewint (Sep 29, 2010)

evan, starts to sound a lot like time-share vacations but if you don't have that 10 mill in your back pocket...


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## evangilder (Sep 29, 2010)

Not far from it, actually.


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## cptsmith (Oct 1, 2010)

For the Texans, insurance companies want a certain number of tailwheel hours and then a certain number dual in the Texan.


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## evangilder (Oct 1, 2010)

True, the Texan is not a good place to get your tail-wheel cert. They can be very unforgiving.


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## mikewint (Oct 1, 2010)

ok, remember you have non-pilots here, please, what are tail-wheel hours?


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## robwkamm (Oct 1, 2010)

hours flying aircraft with a tail wheel not tricycle landing gear. cessna 182 would be tricycle , stearman would be tail wheel


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## mikewint (Oct 1, 2010)

i thought that the texan was a trainer? to me that implys that it is easier to fly hence a trainer. now as i recall a stearman is a biplane. so i'd have to fly 500 hours in a tailwheel plane, then 500 hrs in a texan, before i could try to fly my 10 mill corsair? my 10mil investment is going to be spending a lot of time in the garage.
could i sit in it and make vrooom-vroom sounds? with an occasional tack-tack-tack-tack for fun?

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## tail end charlie (Oct 1, 2010)

mikewint said:


> i thought that the texan was a trainer? to me that implys that it is easier to fly hence a trainer. now as i recall a stearman is a biplane. so i'd have to fly 500 hours in a tailwheel plane, then 500 hrs in a texan, before i could try to fly my 10 mill corsair? my 10mil investment is going to be spending a lot of time in the garage.
> could i sit in it and make vrooom-vroom sounds? with an occasional tack-tack-tack-tack for fun?




You could always practice jumping out and shouting jeronimo

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## vikingBerserker (Oct 1, 2010)

Ok, I'll ask a silly question: at the very lowest level of pilot's licenser, is there a different license for a tail sitter and another for tricycle gear?


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## mikewint (Oct 1, 2010)

Tailend, Yes i could, and i used to do that, with people shooting at me, course i really didn't shout Geronimo it was more like "OH SH*T"


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## tail end charlie (Oct 1, 2010)

mikewint said:


> Tailend, Yes i could, and i used to do that, with people shooting at me, course i really didn't shout Geronimo it was more like "OH SH*T"



I heard some used to shout "whats that f*%kin indian called again"


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## mikewint (Oct 1, 2010)

never had that much time, one OH SH*T, and then pucker and try not to


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## evangilder (Oct 1, 2010)

mikewint said:


> i thought that the texan was a trainer? to me that implys that it is easier to fly hence a trainer. now as i recall a stearman is a biplane. so i'd have to fly 500 hours in a tailwheel plane, then 500 hrs in a texan, before i could try to fly my 10 mill corsair? my 10mil investment is going to be spending a lot of time in the garage.
> could i sit in it and make vrooom-vroom sounds? with an occasional tack-tack-tack-tack for fun?



No 500 hours in any tail wheel. The Texan was an advanced trainer. It was actually put into place to serve as an interim trainer because going from a Stearman to a high performance piston like a P-47 or a P-51 is dramatically different. Flying a Texan isn't bad, but takeoffs and landings can be pretty unforgiving.


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## evangilder (Oct 1, 2010)

vikingBerserker said:


> Ok, I'll ask a silly question: at the very lowest level of pilot's licenser, is there a different license for a tail sitter and another for tricycle gear?



The basic private pilot's license is issued with training and checkout in a standard tricycle gear aircraft. Tail dragger is an additional endorsement.



> You don't need a tailwheel endorsement if you’ve already logged pilot-in-command (PIC) time in a tailwheel airplane prior to April 15, 1991. Otherwise, you must now receive a one-time logbook endorsement to act as PIC in a tailwheel airplane. The recommended wording for this endorsement, which is to be signed and dated by your tailwheel instructor, is provided in Advisory Circular (AC) 61-65D:
> 
> "I certify that (Pilot's Name), (Pilot's Certificate), (Pilot's Certificate Number), has received the required training of §61.31(i) in a (make and model tailwheel airplane). I have determined that he/she is proficient in the operation of a tailwheel airplane."
> 
> ...


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## mikewint (Oct 1, 2010)

evan, ok, i tried to read through those regs and they were pretty confusing. so i'm a pilot flying some light single engine plane with a tail wheel, and i have 500 hours doing so. i present my paper work, take my tests, and i can fly my F4U? or do i need that Texan in there somewhere?
from your post to viking i'm assuming that a trike is easier to land/takeoff than a tailwheel?


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## tail end charlie (Oct 1, 2010)

mikewint said:


> evan, ok, i tried to read through those regs and they were pretty confusing. so i'm a pilot flying some light single engine plane with a tail wheel, and i have 500 hours doing so. i present my paper work, take my tests, and i can fly my F4U? or do i need that Texan in there somewhere?
> from your post to viking i'm assuming that a trike is easier to land/takeoff than a tailwheel?



Mike I think all aeroplanes land (Isaac Newton decided the rule), the question is whether you can walk away or not.

In a way I can understand people wanting to fly a real war bird but I used to race motorcycles and so have an interest in Moto GP and Formula one. I know how hard it is to take 50BHP to the limit on a track and I have seen the comical efforts of supposedly gifted amateurs in F1 cars. I see a WW2 war bird as an F1 car working in 3 dimensions with about 4 times the power and 2 or 3 times the speed which doesnt come to a halt in a sand trap but buries itself with its pilot 10 m into the ground. Hats off to the guys who did and do fly them but it isnt for me. HOWEVER if I win the lottery and get told I have 1 month to live....I am yer man


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 1, 2010)

evangilder said:


> The basic private pilot's license is issued with training and checkout in a standard tricycle gear aircraft. Tail dragger is an additional endorsement.



Thanks, I appreciate that!


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## vikingBerserker (Oct 1, 2010)

evangilder said:


> The basic private pilot's license is issued with training and checkout in a standard tricycle gear aircraft. Tail dragger is an additional endorsement.



Thanks! I appreicate that.


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## evangilder (Oct 1, 2010)

You could fly it with proper training, and a check out from a certified examiner who could give you the check out. But going from a small tail-wheel to a high performance piston is a fools errand. You would certainly want to have some texan or other higher performance aircraft time. 

Tail wheel aircraft aren't necessarily harder to land, but they are way less forgiving to you. You have to pay a lot of attention when landing and use the rudder a lot more, often anticipating movement ahead of time. There is a pretty good write up on it with less of the legal-ese working here:
Talwheel Transition FAQ

An excerpt from it is here:


> What are some of the common problems pilots have transitioning to taildraggers?
> 
> The biggest problem can be summed up in three words: rudder, rudder, rudder. Too many pilots have grown accustomed to being reactive with their rudder inputs--waiting for the airplane to do something, then responding--or worse, actually bracing their legs against the rudder pedals, especially during landing. The key in a taildragger is to be proactive with the rudder. To be light, loose, but active on the rudder pedals all the way through the takeoff and all the way through the landing.
> 
> ...


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## N4521U (Oct 2, 2010)

Simply...... 
The PT-17, Primary Trainer, Stearman is a Basic function airplane, tail wheeled that is. Fixed gear, non retracting. When it used a wood prop, it was Fixed pitched, non adjustable. Two wings, higher lift. Low power, lighter aircraft.
The AT-6, Advanced Trainer, had retractable gear, constant speed or adjustable pitch prop, and lower lift in wing area, heavier airplane. More power. 
Thus the T-6 was the transition trainer leading a pilot to the more complex and more powerful P-51 and Corsair as well as most other high performance fighter and bomber aircraft.

Remember, three fingers, three lights, gear down and locked!


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## cptsmith (Oct 2, 2010)

In WW2 they had Primary, Basic and Advanced flight training using the Texan for advanced. Post war the Navy and Air Force used the Texan as their primary trainer, later being replaced with T-28 and T-34 (both tricycle gear). Around 1960-61 the Air Force went to all jet trainers (T-37 and T-38).


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## mikewint (Oct 2, 2010)

sounds pretty tough an involved, and 500 hours is a lot of time. at 5hrs per day that's 3months and since you can't fly every day probably more like 6 months just to qualify to try to fly the F4U. did starting pilots in WWII have that much time to learn?


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## N4521U (Oct 2, 2010)

I finished my PPL in 1991, my instructor commented at the end that with 45 hours flying time, I had more training than most WWII pilots going into combat....... ? 

However during this time I had a friend who did aerobatic instruction, so I had stall, spin, And other _unusual attitude_ instruction. My practical examiner was a crop duster pilot as well, we had a good time up there.


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## cptsmith (Oct 3, 2010)

US pilot training took a bit of time. In one of Micdrows posts somewhere it states how many weeks each course took as well as how many hours flown. Roughly about 60 hours each flown in Primary, Basic and Advanced plus how ever many hours in combat transition course for the type aircraft. So close to 250 hours by the time a pilot reached combat.


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