# P-51 vs. UFO



## comiso90 (Jan 6, 2011)

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread463614/pg1

_*The Mantell UFO incident was among the most publicized early UFO reports. The incident resulted in the crash and death of 25-year-old Kentucky Air National Guard pilot, Captain Thomas F. Mantell, on January 7, 1948, while in pursuit of a supposed UFO.
*
Historian David Michael Jacobs argues the Mantell case marked a sharp shift in both public and governmental perceptions of UFOs. Previously, mass media often treated UFO reports with a whimsical or glib attitude reserved for silly season news. Following Mantell’s death, however, Jacobs notes "the fact that a person had dramatically died in an encounter with an alleged flying saucer dramatically increased public concern about the phenomenon. Now a dramatic new prospect entered thought about UFOs: they might be not only extraterrestrial but potentially hostile as well." (Jacobs, 45)
_
_Mantell was an experienced pilot; his total flight history consisted of 2,167 hours in the air, and he had been *honored for his part in the Battle of Normandy during World War II.* [1]

On 7 January 1948, Godman Army Airfield at Fort Knox, Kentucky received a report from the Kentucky State Highway Patrol of an unusual aerial object near Maysville, Kentucky. Reports of a westbound circular object, 250 to 300 feet (91 m) in diameter, were made from Owensboro, Kentucky, and Irvington, Kentucky.

At about 1:45 p.m., Sgt Quinton Blackwell saw an object from his position in the control tower at Fort Knox. Two other witnesses in the tower also reported a white object in the distance. Base commander Colonel Guy Hix reported an object he described as "very white," and "about one fourth the size of the full moon ... Through binoculars it appeared to have a red border at the bottom ... It remained stationary, seemingly, for one and a half hours." Observers at Clinton County Army Air Field in Ohio described the object "as having the appearance of a flaming red cone trailing a gaseous green mist" and observed the object for around 35 minutes.[2] Another observer at Lockbourne Army Air Field in Ohio noted, " Just before leaving it came to very near the ground, staying down for about ten seconds, then climbed at a very fast rate back to its original altitude, 10,000 feet, leveling off and disappearing into the overcast heading 120 degrees. Its speed was greater than 500 mph in level flight."[3]

Four P-51 Mustangs of C Flight, 165th Fighter Squadron Kentucky Air National Guard[4] already in the air—one piloted by Mantell—were told to approach the object. Sgt Blackwell was in radio communication with the pilots throughout the event.

One pilot's Mustang was low on fuel, and he quickly abandoned his efforts. Air Force Captain Edward J. Ruppelt (the first head of Project Blue Book) notes that there was some disagreement amongst the air traffic controllers as to Mantell's words as he communicated with the tower: some sources[5] reported that Mantell had described an object "[which] looks metallic and of tremendous size," but others disputed whether or not Mantell actually said this.

The other two pilots accompanied Mantell in steep pursuit of the object. They later reported they saw an object, but described it as so small and indistinct they could not identify it. Mantell ignored suggestions that the pilots should level their altitude and try to more clearly see the object.

Only one of Mantell's companions, Lt. Albert Clemmons, had an oxygen mask, and his oxygen was in low supply. Clemmons and a Lt. Hammond called off their pursuit at 22,500 feet (6,900 m). Mantell continued to climb, however. According to the Air Force, once Mantell passed 25,000 feet (7,600 m) he blacked out from the lack of oxygen (hypoxia), and his plane began spiraling back towards the ground. A witness later reported Mantell's Mustang in a circling descent. His plane crashed at a farm south of Franklin, Kentucky, on the Tennessee-Kentucky state line.

Firemen later pulled Mantell's body from the Mustang's wreckage. His wristwatch had stopped at 3:18 p.m., the time of his crash. Meanwhile, by 3:50 p.m. the UFO was no longer visible to observers at Godman Army Air Field. The Mantell Incident was reported by newspapers around the nation, and received significant news media attention. A number of sensational rumors were also circulated about Mantell's crash. Among the rumors were claims that Mantell's fighter had been shot down by the UFO he was chasing, and that the Air Force covered up evidence proving this. Another rumor stated that Mantell's body was found riddled with strange holes. However, no evidence has ever surfaced to substantiate any of these claims. In 1956, USAF Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, the supervisor of the Air Force's Project Blue Book study into the UFO mystery, would write that the Mantell Crash was one of three "classic" UFO cases in 1948 that would help to define the UFO phenomenon in the public mind, and would help to convince Air Force intelligence specialists that UFOs were a "real", physical phenomenon. (Ruppelt, 30)

Mantell was later buried at Zachary Taylor National Cemetery.[6]
[edit] The Venus Explanation

The Mantell Crash was quickly investigated by Project Sign, the Air Force's new research group which had been created to study UFO incidents. Though Project Sign's staff never came to a conclusion, other Air Force investigators ruled that Mantell had misidentified the planet Venus, and, wrongly believing that he could close in to get a better look, had passed out from the lack of oxygen at high altitude.

However, this conclusion was later changed, because although Venus was roughly in the same position as the UFO, astronomers working for Project Sign ruled that Venus would have been nearly invisible to observers at that time of day. The cause of Mantell's crash remains officially listed as undetermined by the Air Force.
[edit] Skyhook Balloon Explanation

Dr. J. Allen Hynek, a professor of astronomy and a scientific consultant to Project Sign, suggested Mantell had misidentified a US Navy Skyhook weather balloon. Others disputed this idea, noting that no particular Skyhook balloon could be conclusively identified as being in the area in question during Mantell's pursuit. Despite its shortcomings, others thought the Skyhook solution was plausible: the balloons were a secret Navy project at the time of Mantell's crash, were made of reflective aluminum, and were about 100 feet (30 m) in diameter, perhaps consistent with Mantell's description of a large metallic object, and may furthermore be consistent with the motions reported by the other UFO witnesses. Since the Skyhook balloons were secret at the time, neither Mantell nor the other observers in the air control tower would have been able to identify the UFO as a Skyhook. Furthermore, later research by Project Sign and UFO skeptics would show that multiple Skyhook balloons had been launched on 7 January 1948 in Clinton County, Ohio, approximately 150 miles (240 km) northeast of Fort Knox. UFO skeptic Philip Klass would argue that wind currents at that time would have blown the balloons close to the area of the Mantell Incident.

If a Skyhook balloon was involved in the crash of Mantell's aircraft, the Air Force would have been loath to admit the presence of the balloon for more than mere reasons of security since it would have also meant admitting that a DoD program caused the dispatch of a Kentucky Air National Guard aircraft with fatal consequences for its pilot.
[edit] Inexperience with the P-51

Researchers[7] have also noted that while Mantell was an experienced pilot, he was rather new to the P-51, and that this relative inexperience could have been a factor in the crash._

Mantell UFO incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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## RabidAlien (Jan 6, 2011)

The truth is out there. Somewhere.


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## TheMustangRider (Jan 6, 2011)

Interesting story. I read an article some years ago of a encounter between a Soviet MiG-15 and a UFO which took place near a air force base in the Soviet Union; from what I remember the pilot opened up on the flying saucer with air-to-air missiles (perhaps they meant MiG-17s or MiG-19s) and amazingly the UFO managed to evade all the missiles with maneuvers "unlikely to be performed by known aircraft".
I also remember reading of UFO sightings by F-86s stationed on Great Britain or West Germany during the 50's.
There are many stories concerning these sightings, whether they are real or just myths is something we perhaps might never know, but what is certain is that sadly there was a American pilot that lost his life on the events occurred on January 7, 1948.


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## syscom3 (Jan 6, 2011)

I remember having a comic book about UFO's way back in the 60's that described this event. That was the first time I had ever heard (or read about) of the P-51 Mustang.

Thanks Comiso90 for bringing back the memories!


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## Matt308 (Jan 6, 2011)

Sounds like another incident that can quickly be explained by Occam's Razor.


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## comiso90 (Jan 7, 2011)

I think its easy to imagine...

All pumped up, determined, stressed and target fixated... 

You're welcome SYS... that sounds like a cool comic. I searched for it and couldnt find it but check this out.. imagination fodder for a 10 year old.. I would stare at this for days!






.


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## syscom3 (Jan 7, 2011)

Remember the one of the Civil War battlefield? Revolutionary War battlefield? 

LOL, I would look at those ads and try to convince my dad that this was the toy for me!


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## comiso90 (Jan 7, 2011)

Motivational Posters : Captain Thomas Mantell of the U.S. National Guard Encounters a Huge UFO in His P-51 But Crashes Posters


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## comiso90 (Jan 7, 2011)

syscom3 said:


> Remember the one of the Civil War battlefield? Revolutionary War battlefield?
> 
> LOL, I would look at those ads and try to convince my dad that this was the toy for me!



Sure do,, LOVED that stuff could start a thread just for that stuff. Man, takes A LOT more to entertain me now!


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## drgondog (Jan 8, 2011)

Mantrell's Mustang flew with the 355th FG in WWII


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## mikewint (Jan 8, 2011)

I think Commiso said it all. Alien spacecraft are right up there with ghosts for me. An oxygen starved brain will not make rational decisions


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## Maximowitz (Jan 8, 2011)

I now look forward to certain members of this forum posting graphs, pie charts and performance curves of the UFO to prove it was far superior to the P51.


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## mikewint (Jan 9, 2011)

Max, it's just a matter of keeping your inertial compensator's adjusted properly


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## Gnomey (Jan 9, 2011)

Indeed Mike. Interesting story Comiso, thanks for sharing.


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## bobbysocks (Jan 11, 2011)

comiso90 said:


> I think its easy to imagine...
> 
> All pumped up, determined, stressed and target fixated...
> 
> ...



OT sorry...

the adds in the comic books in those days were so cool. you could buy pretty much anything...cheap. i had several of those sets like you have there. i always wanted a teacup monkey or a real alligator...haha.

check these out///takes a minute to load.

Old Comic Book Ads - 22 Mins


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## syscom3 (Jan 12, 2011)

Wow .... there were some ads I haven't seen for decades. I loved that one for the pet chihuahua or raccoon. LOL.

Thanks for posting that link!


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## Matt308 (Jan 12, 2011)

I recall that fighting ships advertisement. There were a whole slew of those types of military toy "kits". A buddy of mine down the street in about 1973 or 1974 got the kit with artillery, soldiers tanks, trucks, etc. It came in a shoebox shaped plastic box, but about half the size of a shoebox with a snap closeable lid. I want to say it had "hundreds of pieces", but as you can imagine they were all in different scales. I want to say we saw these in comic books and Mad Magazine. I always wanted one as a kid.


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