# The Battling Bastards of Bataan



## ccheese (Apr 17, 2008)

I have a neighbor, a Filipino I guess in his late 70's, and we talk about the
war once in awhile. This morning we got to talking about the Phillipines in
early 1942. He told me he was one of "The Battling Bastards of Bataan",
and proceeded to sing this little ditty:

"We're the battling bastards of Battan,
no mama, no papa, no Uncle Sam.

No aunts, no uncles, no nephews, no nieces,
No ships, no planes, no artillery pieces.

And nobody gives a damn !"

His voice was filled with emotion, and I really couldn't determine a tune.
But he said as a nine year old boy, at the time the Japanese were in
the process of invading the Phillipines, he was a runner for a Filipino Scout
outfit. At nine years old !! He would hustle ammo, weapons, food and
water, bandages and anything else. And he would help bury the dead.

After the occupation he was sent to a school to learn to speak Japanese.
But he was also a spy for the men still in the hills. He spoke of a General
Homa (or Homma) of the Japanese Army, but only in passing. Anyone
recognize the name ?

He got very emotional... I guess the memories were not pleasant, and he
went inside. We will talk again, but on his terms.

I don't know if we have any Filipino's on the forum or not, or maybe one of 
WW-II scholars can add more to this. 


Charles


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## Lucky13 (Apr 17, 2008)

To your friend Mr C.....


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 17, 2008)

I mentioned this a few times....

My wife's grandfather was on Macarthur’s staff and was captured, he wrote a book about his ordeal.

Amazon Online Reader : Surviving the Day: An American Pow in Japan

He would go back to the PI every so many years and meet with the people who helped him and his wife (my wife's grandmother was also captured, she was aboard a PBY that was shot down trying to fly to Australia). Since his death my inlaws go back and still do some missionary work there.


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## renrich (Apr 17, 2008)

Homma was the commander of the Japanese troops that finally conquered the Allied forces on Bataan. He had such a difficult time that he was in hot water with the Japanese high command. He was prosecuted after the war because of the mal treatment of POWs after the surrender of Bataan and I believe executed. Your neighbor may be a real hero. The Filipinos I have met are very patriotic.


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## Lucky13 (Apr 17, 2008)




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## syscom3 (Apr 17, 2008)

Ive been to Corregidore.

Back in the 80's, I worked with a guy who was from Leyte.

He told me that untill the middle 70's, in his neighborhood, there was a small aircraft junkyard (full of AAF and IJA planes and parts).

Then one day, the scrap men came and took it all away.


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## syscom3 (Apr 17, 2008)

FLYBOYJ said:


> .....My wife's grandfather was on Macarthur’s staff and was captured, he wrote a book about his ordeal.
> 
> Amazon Online Reader : Surviving the Day: An American Pow in Japan
> .....QUOTE]
> ...


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 17, 2008)

syscom3 said:


> FLYBOYJ said:
> 
> 
> > .....My wife's grandfather was on Macarthur’s staff and was captured, he wrote a book about his ordeal.
> ...


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## syscom3 (Apr 17, 2008)

When I worked at HUGHES, his son was my boss.

Col Edwin Ramsey was on MacArthurs staff in the PI. When Bataan was about to fall, he was told by Doug to retreat to the hills and fight a guerilla action. Which he did with enthusiasm.

He also led the very last cavalry charge in the US Army. That was part of a delaying action up near Lingayan.


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## ccheese (Apr 17, 2008)

I found this on Wiki:

Masaharu Homma (本間雅晴, Honma Masaharu?, 28 January 1888 – 3 April 1946) was a general in the Imperial Japanese Army. He is noteworthy for his role in the invasion and occupation of the Philippines in World War II. Homma, who was an amateur painter and playwright, was also known as the Poet General.

After the surrender of Japan, the American occupation authorities arrested Homma, and he was extradited to the Philippines at the express order of General Douglas MacArthur so that he could be tried by an American military tribunal rather than the International Allied War Crimes Commission tasked with prosecuting Japanese war-time leaders for war crimes connected with starting the war.

Historian Philip Piccigallo said that Homma was convicted of the actions of his men during the march rather than having a direct hand in the actions themselves.

It is not clear whether Homma ordered the atrocities that occurred during the Bataan Death March, but it is clear that his lack of administrative expertise and inability to adequately delegate authority and control his men led to atrocities. After American-Filipino forces surrendered the Bataan Peninsula, Homma turned logistics of handling the estimated 25,000 prisoners to Major-General Yoshitake Kawane. Homma publicly stated that the POWs would be treated fairly. A plan was formulated to transport and march the prisoners to Camp O'Donnell, which Homma approved. However, the plan was severely flawed, as the American and Filipino POWs were starving, weak with malaria, and numbered not 25,000 but 76,000 men– far more than any Japanese plan had anticipated.[8] Additionally, the Japanese thought that the surrender would occur some three weeks later, a point at which supplies would have arrived. In his defense at his trial, Homma also claimed that he was so preoccupied with the plans for the Corregidor assault that he had forgotten about the prisoners’ treatment, believing that his officers were properly handling the matter. He claimed that he did not learn of the atrocity until after the war.

Homma was convicted by the U.S. military tribunal for war crimes in the Philippines, including the Bataan Death March, and the atrocities at O'Donnell and Cabanatuan which followed. Homma's chief defense counsel, John H. Skeen Jr., stated that in his opinion it was a "highly irregular trial, conducted in an atmosphere that left no doubt as to what the ultimate outcome would be." Associate Justice Frank Murphy of the U.S. Supreme Court protested the verdict, stating: "Either we conduct such a trial as this in the noble spirit and atmosphere of our Constitution or we abandon all pretense to justice, let the ages slip away and descend to the level of revengeful blood purges."

Homma's wife appealed to General MacArthur to spare his life; her pleas were denied, though according to William Manchester in “American Caesar”, he ordered Homma shot, rather than sent to the gallows, the latter being considered the greater dishonor amongst military men. Homma was executed by firing squad by the Filipino and American forces on 3 April 1946 outside Manila.

Charles


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 17, 2008)

syscom3 said:


> When I worked at HUGHES, his son was my boss.
> 
> Col Edwin Ramsey was on MacArthurs staff in the PI. When Bataan was about to fall, he was told by Doug to retreat to the hills and fight a guerilla action. Which he did with enthusiasm.
> 
> He also led the very last cavalry charge in the US Army. That was part of a delaying action up near Lingayan.



Interesting and now that you mention it Grady (my wife's grandfather) does mention the guerilla resistance in his book and might even mention Ramsey (I'll have to go back to Grady's book). At the time he was Captain and was ordered to stay at the tunnels at Corregidor. He thought the garrison there would put up a fight but was very surprised when the surrender order came down.


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## Njaco (Apr 17, 2008)

From what I've read - and it hasn't really been much - the Fillipinos were very courageous and continued to really fight the Japanese from the hills and jungles. Lots of brave men.

For your friend Charles -


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## renrich (Apr 18, 2008)

Sys, your contacts regarding WW2 and the Philipines and your personal experience at Corregidor are extremely valuable and interesting. I envy you and hope you have done all you can to preserve those experiences for future generations.


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## parsifal (Apr 18, 2008)

What do people think of Macs performance in the Phillipines?

My opinion is that he stuffed up the early part, and then extricated his army with great skill to the Bataan Peninsula. Should I duck now or later?


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 18, 2008)

parsifal said:


> What do people think of Macs performance in the Phillipines?
> 
> My opinion is that he stuffed up the early part, and then extricated his army with great skill to the Bataan Peninsula. Should I duck now or later?



My wife's grandfather, having worked directly for him had great admiration for the man and claimed he did not want to evacuate.


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## syscom3 (Apr 18, 2008)

Flyboy, check this out:

Edwin Price Ramsey - Official Website

and 

Edwin Price Ramsey - Official Website

and

Edwin Price Ramsey - Official Website


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## ccheese (Apr 18, 2008)

I saw Mr Miranda (my neighbor) this morning. He apologized for "clouding
up" (his words) the last time we spoke. He said it was un-manly, and he
was very sorry. He has always been Mr. Miranda to me, but I found out his
name is Manuel Mendoza Miranda. He said he would like to show me some
things, this weekend. I can't wait.

Charles


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 18, 2008)

syscom3 said:


> Flyboy, check this out:
> 
> Edwin Price Ramsey - Official Website
> 
> ...



Pretty Interesting - I would bet he knew my wife's grandfather.


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## renrich (Apr 19, 2008)

During 41-42, MacArthur was in a long fight with a short stick and although mistakes were made during the Japanese invasion of the Philipines, overall I believe he was the best general the US had in WW2. He was certainly an egocentric personality but he got the job done and usually with a low casualty rate, unlike the campaigns run by the Navy and Marines.


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## syscom3 (Apr 19, 2008)

renrich said:


> During 41-42, MacArthur was in a long fight with a short stick and although mistakes were made during the Japanese invasion of the Philipines, overall I believe he was the best general the US had in WW2. He was certainly an egocentric personality but he got the job done and usually with a low casualty rate, unlike the campaigns run by the Navy and Marines.



He was also an extremely fast learner. When he was ordered back to Australia, he had formulated a basis of what strategy and tactics could defeat the Japanese.


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## parsifal (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi all

Mac had a few hiccups with the Australians in the latter part of 1942. He is still liked and admired, but his casitgation of the Australians at the final parts of the Kokoda Campaign in the Buna-Gona-Sananada area was pretty disgraceful Green American units sent to fight, essesentially to show the aussies how its done basically fell apart. There was never going to be any other result.The American units were short on experience and training (and I suspect equipment), and were apparently going to show up veterans who had jungle warfare experience, and more than two years general combat experience before that. Macs comments, which were known by the Australians fighting hard at the front, were not appreciated, i can tell you.

Later however, in the Northern NG campaign, Mac did get his act together. He was a sound military commander, and possessed a charismatic persona. The Aussies eventually grew to be very attached to this American general, after a somewhat rocky start.


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## renrich (Apr 19, 2008)

When looking at his record overall, WW1, superintendent of West Point, WW2, Japan occupation, Korea, he would have to be high on my list of the greatest men of the 20th century. I wonder what would have been the result if he had been supreme commander in the ETO?


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 19, 2008)

As stated - he learned quickly. The only thing he couldn't figure out was how to fight a "political" police action war where your mandate was NOT to soundly defeat your enemy by all means possible.


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## syscom3 (Apr 19, 2008)

FLYBOYJ said:


> As stated - he learned quickly. The only thing he couldn't figure out was how to fight a "political" police action war where your mandate was NOT to soundly defeat your enemy by all means possible.



He forgot a fundamental truism in the US Military .... The president is your commander.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 19, 2008)

syscom3 said:


> He forgot a fundamental truism in the US Military .... The president is your commander.



That is true - at the same time that president (and a few others) forgot that you don't commit troops to fight a war and then prevent them from winning it.....


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## syscom3 (Apr 19, 2008)

FLYBOYJ said:


> That is true - at the same time that president (and a few others) forgot that you don't commit troops to fight a war and then prevent them from winning it.....



But the chain of command trumps all else.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 20, 2008)

syscom3 said:


> But the chain of command trumps all else.


It does - especially if it's the politically correct thing to do.....


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## renrich (Apr 20, 2008)

To me, an interesting thing about Mac was how politically astute he appeared to be when he ruled Japan and yet he misread the tea leaves when it came to his relationship with Truman. Or maybe he did not but his ego would not let him yield his position. It was rather tragic that a career such as his ended when he was surprised by the ChiComs and then fired by the President. His farewell speech at West Point is one of the best I have ever read, right up there with Churchill.


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## parsifal (Apr 20, 2008)

Richard

i dont think he had a chance with truman. I like truman as a president, but I have read that Mac was touted as a republican contender. Once that was out of the bag....truman was going to get him no matter what he did.

Mind you, he did make it rather easy for the knives to be sunk in. You dont disobey the supreme commander, risk WWIII and get away with it.

He just came from a different age I guess, kinda like John Wayne movies,


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 20, 2008)

All true folks - remember Truman's administrations after WW2 weren't all rosy - he almost lost the 48 election and got chastised over the state of the US military at the start of the Korean War. There were also numerous corruption charges directed at people working for him and the US economy wasn't that rosy either. I think all this plus the situation with Mac assured a Republican administration for the next 8 years and Eisenhower was the perfect man at the perfect time.....


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## syscom3 (Apr 20, 2008)

Truman did very well after the end of WW2.

The public was in no mood to keep a large military. The economic slowdown was a natural reaction to the return of millions of veterans and the conversion of the manufacturing base from military to commercial.

Dont forget he wasnt a push over from the commies. He responded appropriately in Europe with the Marshall Plan, Berlin blockade and the commie trouble making in Greece.


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## renrich (Apr 20, 2008)

Yep, when I was much younger and had all the answers I disliked Truman a great deal. Now, I look back and realise he stepped up and made some tough calls the right way. He wasn't perfect, (who is?) but his leadership re the atom bomb, Marshall Plan, Berlin Airlift, Korea was pretty good. Funny, how Bush may have the potential to remind one of Truman sometime in the future. As was mentioned Truman was highly partisan and Mac's dalliance with the Republican party pretty much earned Truman's enmity forever.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 20, 2008)

syscom3 said:


> Truman did very well after the end of WW2.


He was not liked by the American public - his 1948 election squeaker was proof of that.


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## syscom3 (Apr 20, 2008)

FLYBOYJ said:


> He was not liked by the American public - his 1948 election squeaker was proof of that.



As the years and decades went by, he looked a lot better.


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## FLYBOYJ (Apr 21, 2008)

syscom3 said:


> As the years and decades went by, he looked a lot better.


History painted him better because of his decisiveness to use the atomic bomb and his anti-communist stance. His administration was riddled with corruption and controversy. Although he was considered be many the last great democrat president, I think the end result gave 8 years of a republican White House.

_Scandals and controversies
In 1950, the Senate, led by Estes Kefauver, investigated numerous charges of corruption among senior administration officials, some of whom received fur coats and deep freezers for favors. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) was involved. In 1950, 166 IRS employees either resigned or were fired,[121] and many were facing indictments from the Department of Justice on a variety of tax-fixing and bribery charges, including the assistant attorney general in charge of the Tax Division. When Attorney General Howard McGrath fired the special prosecutor for being too zealous, Truman fired McGrath.[122] Historians agree that Truman himself was innocent and unaware—with one exception. In 1945, Mrs. Truman received a new, expensive, hard-to-get deep freezer. The businessman who provided the gift was the president of a perfume company and, thanks to Truman's aide and confidante General Harry Vaughan, received priority to fly to Europe days after the war ended, where he bought new perfumes. On the way back he "bumped" a wounded veteran from a flight that would have taken him back to the US. Disclosure of the episode in 1949 humiliated Truman. The president responded by vigorously defending Vaughan, an old friend with an office in the White House itself. Vaughan was eventually connected to multiple influence-peddling scandals.[123]_
_Charges that Soviet agents had infiltrated the government bedeviled the Truman administration and became a major campaign issue for Eisenhower in 1952.[124] In 1947, Truman set up loyalty boards to investigate espionage among federal employees.[125] Between 1947 and 1952, "about 20,000 government employees were investigated, some 2500 resigned 'voluntarily,' and 400 were fired."[126] He did, however, strongly oppose mandatory loyalty oaths for governmental employees, a stance that led to charges that his administration was soft on communism.[127]

In 1953, Senator Joseph McCarthy and Attorney General Herbert Brownell, Jr. claimed that Truman had known Harry Dexter White was a Soviet spy when Truman appointed him to the International Monetary Fund.[128] [129]. Truman described the civil rights Selma marches as silly. He stated that the marches would not "accomplish a darned thing".[130]_

Harry S. Truman


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## syscom3 (Apr 21, 2008)

After 20 years of democratic domination in politics, it was inevitable the GOP would win one.

Ike ended up following many of Trumans policies regarding the Soviets and communism.

Probably the single best thing to happen to Ike was the massive expansion of the consumer economy in the 50's.


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## ccheese (Apr 21, 2008)

MacArthur was also a very vindictive person. He personally ordered General
Homma returned to the Phillipines to stand trial for war crimes rather than
let him be tried by the War Crimes Commission. He also ordered Gen. Homma
shot by firing squad rather than hang the man, thus preserving Homma's
honor.

Charles


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## syscom3 (Apr 21, 2008)

I like what Gen Kreuger (8th Army) had to say about Doug .... "I'd rather jump into a sack of rattlesnakes than to get on his bad side".


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## Robersabel (Oct 18, 2013)

Today, veterans of Bataan are nearly forgotten or being denied full recognition by the U.S. Army violating the U.S. Constutution.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 18, 2013)

How are they being denied recognition by the Army?


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## Njaco (Oct 19, 2013)

We have a live one.........................


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