# Best Special forces



## Hunter368 (Apr 23, 2006)

Who has the best Special Forces (military forces) on the planet, give me your top ten. 1 being the best and 10 being the worst of the top ten. I hope this is not to general of a question, I just have no clue who has the best. SAS, US Navy Seals, etc ? Give me your list and plz leave your national pride out of this list and just give the best as you see it and why. Thanks


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## Gnomey (Apr 23, 2006)

SAS/SBS in my opinion, all there are others who are also good.


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## Tiger (Apr 23, 2006)

SAS.


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## plan_D (Apr 23, 2006)

It is widely accepted that the S.A.S are the supreme special forces unit on the planet, as they have been everywhere and are extremely well-trained in all situations. But the main reason is because they have been around the longest, while being the heaviest of conflicts. 

However, it will depend on the man, or men, in the unit. Easily enough I would be able to say that Dan (Ex-SEAL) would be better prepared and more combat capable than some SAS. Put it this way, if any of the best special forces units are in the vincinity ... you aren't going to have chance to be scared because they'll kill you without you knowing they're there.


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## Henk (Apr 23, 2006)

I am quite stupid so guys please help me and tell me which country the SAS is from. I know that the South African Special forces was once in the top five of the best, but I do not know now. Taakmag is the name, the are now pretty good, but I not know where they are in the world when it comes to the top ten.

The German anti aircraft Hijack team is regarded as the best in the world.

Henk


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## Nonskimmer (Apr 23, 2006)

Hunter368 said:


> Give me your list and plz leave your national pride out of this list and just give the best as you see it and why. Thanks


The thing is, with very few exceptions, no one here would really even have a clue who was best or why. The SAS has been widely publicized by media over the last twenty-ish years as perhaps being the best, and they've been featured in much literary fiction of the genre, but are they actually the best? Maybe. I sure as hell wouldn't know. I've heard some say the US Navy SEALs were the best. The Israeli special forces are supposed to be right up there too. Hell, even the Canadian military special types have never exactly sucked.

So I guess you could say, I haven't got the slightest idea who's the best. There's my answer.


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## plan_D (Apr 23, 2006)

The SAS are from the United Kingdom, Henk. They formed in 1942, in the North African desert. There are other SAS units in the Commonwealth, one of the first incursions into Iraq in 2003 was a combined operation of Australian and British SAS units. 

A discussion of the best could go on forever. And the only people really qualified to say anything is someone who has been through all the training courses, and served in all the forces. And that will never happen. The second best are operatives from each service in a room, discussing their tactics and past missions ... but since most of them are still classified , that isn't going to happen either. 

The men in these units are constantly training, so obviously a ten year veteran of the SEALs is going to better than a freshly trained SAS operative.


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## Henk (Apr 23, 2006)

Oh, yes the SAS is the best in the world. That is true.

Thanks mate for letting me know and helping my small brain. lol

Henk


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## lesofprimus (Apr 23, 2006)

Guys, this all boils down to The Mission.... What needs to get done??? Night Infiltration??? Riverine??? Desert??? Snow??? Mountains???

Bottom line, The Israeli Special Forces are regarded as the Most Elite... Ive trained with Spec War guys from all over the planet, and the SAS guys were always impressive, as were the Dutch and Aussie and German and ect ect...

As it goes, when we were working with other services, we usually ran them into the ground, out swam them, showing marksmanship scores and kill box %'s that no one could touch.... Even the SAS guys hold us in the Top Regard.... I never had to buy my own drinks in all the time I was in the British Isles....


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## Nonskimmer (Apr 23, 2006)

lesofprimus said:


> I never had to buy my own drinks in all the time I was in the British Isles....


Me either, but for obviously...different reasons.


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## Henk (Apr 23, 2006)

Oh yes the Israel's is also great. You lucky dog. Have you been to South Africa or did you train with our guys?

Once guys tried to Hijack these two guys who were in their car. Both guys who tried to Hijack these two fellows were killed. It turned out the two guys waiting in the car were from Taakmag Special Forces and did not stand still for that kind of bullshit.

Henk


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## lesofprimus (Apr 23, 2006)

I trained with the SASFB on several occasions, in Greece.....

The SAS are not the best in the World.... In certain mission profiles, the are the most highly trained.... But in the broader spectrum of Combat Arms, the US Navy SEALs and the IDF Sayerets, including 13 and Matkal, are head and shoulders above the rest in training and operational tempo...


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## Henk (Apr 23, 2006)

les what did you think of the South African guys?

Henk


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## Hunter368 (Apr 23, 2006)

Thanks guys for the information. Special thanks to you Les for your information. On a side note my cousin trained with US Navy Seals on more than one occasion. His comments were that they were very very very good, the best he had ever seen. He also served in UK for a time, not sure if he ever trained with the SAS, I will have to ask him next time I talk to him.


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## Nonskimmer (Apr 23, 2006)

Hunter368 said:


> On a side note my cousin trained with US Navy Seals on more than one occasion...He also served in UK for a time, not sure if he ever trained with the SAS...


Is he JTF, or something else? If so, what the hell is he doing talking to you about his training?


That is unless..._you're_ some kinda Rambo type too.


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## lesofprimus (Apr 23, 2006)

> les what did you think of the South African guys?


 Excellent operators, knew their weapons and tactics very well, liked drinking Uzo waaaaayyyy too much....


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## Wildcat (Apr 23, 2006)

Les did you do much training with the Aussie SAS? or even the Navy Clearance divers?


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## Hunter368 (Apr 23, 2006)

Nonskimmer said:


> Is he JTF, or something else? If so, what the hell is he doing talking to you about his training?
> 
> 
> That is unless..._you're_ some kinda Rambo type too.



He is or was (not sure right now) some kind of underwater (deepsea) rescue / underwater explosive specialist. He has told me about some of his operations (I don't think any of them are secrets but not sure), if he did anything that was hush hush he would not tell me, he is by the book guy from what I can tell, hardcore military guy. He has been in the military for about 18-19 years now, wow times flies.

On a funny note once I was at a bar with him and a group of his buddies (from the military also) and they almost started a bar brawl b/c there was some Army guys in the bar also and one of them was making out with some chick while he was in uniform and my cousin and his friends thought that was wrong to be doing in uniform. So they not so nicely told the guy to stop. The two sides faced off (me standing among all these 200-240lbs navy guys lol), until the Army officer told his men to back off (and told the guy making out with the chick to stop). It was close to a whole bar brawl, it was funny. We laughed about that one more than once.

He told me of training with US Seals but only in general terms, most of which I forget now. He impressions of them was of the highest regard, he said he loved training with them and would do it again if he had the chance in a second.

And noooo I am not a Rambo of anykind. I have trained for years in hand-hand combat, TMA and MMA but no soldier. I love getting on a mat and fighting. I love to learn about anything to do with hand to hand combat, it is a passion of mine. I wish I could train in MMA 10 hours a day, but sadly I can't. Not to mention I am getting older, 36 now. My dream would be to train with some of the top MMA in the world as well as combat troops (SAS, US Seals, etc only in hand to hand combat). But I would first have to win the lottery. Fighting on the mat does not pay my bills or feed my wife and daughter.


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## lesofprimus (Apr 23, 2006)

I have worked with the Aussie SAS before, but still classified..


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## Nonskimmer (Apr 23, 2006)

Hunter368 said:


> He is or was (not sure right now) some kind of underwater (deepsea) rescue / underwater explosive specialist. He has told me about some of his operations (I don't think any of them are secrets but not sure), if he did anything that was hush hush he would not tell me, he is by the book guy from what I can tell, hardcore military guy. He has been in the military for about 18-19 years now, wow times flies.


He's a clearance diver by the sound of it. Their physical training is the toughest anywhere. I've been led to believe it's on par with that of special forces, including the US Navy SEALs (minus the hand-to-hand and small arms stuff of course), so it's probably no surprise then that he did some training with them. My wife's cousin is a bubble head too. Those guys can get a little nuts.


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## Hunter368 (Apr 23, 2006)

Nonskimmer said:


> He's a clearance diver by the sound of it. Their physical training is the toughest anywhere. I've been led to believe it's on par with that of special forces, including the US Navy SEALs (minus the hand-to-hand and small arms stuff of course), so it's probably no surprise then that he did some training with them. My wife's cousin is a bubble head too. Those guys can get a little nuts.



Ok thanks. 

Its been 7 years since I have seen him in person. Only via email do we talk now, b/c he has been in UK training for years. He has now moved back to Canada on the east coast. Maybe one day he and I can sit down and talk more about his career.

Yes he can be nuts, I have heard a few stories of his and they make me laugh. Hardcore comes to mind when I think of him. He has told me how tough his training has been and he is in very good condition when ever I have seen him, not much if any fat on him. But even he said how tough the US Seal training was, but he loved ever second of it. He had alot of respect for those men.

Not sure what year it was but I am sure you will know NS when that airliner went down off the east coast of Canada. He was one of the guys diving down to the plane and pulling bodies out of the ocean. He said it was pretty sick sight to see, many dead.


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## evangilder (Apr 23, 2006)

I will have to go with Les on this and say it depends on the mission. For good all around force, and when the fit hits the shan, the US Navy SEALs are top in my book, but then, they got my ass out of a jam many years ago. The Israelis were damn hardcore as well. If you have a downed pilot that needs to be picked up, the USAF PJs are professional soldiers of the highest caliber. 

The SAS guys that I ran into in various capacities were also good. I also ran across German commandos in various places. I saw them in action on a few occasions and they were in and out with a high degree of success and lethality. Koreans were some crazy mofos.

I don't think that it is possible to keep national bias out of it, especially if you have worked with them. I give a nod to ANY special operations warrior. They all have tough jobs to do and all of the ones that I have seen and/or worked with have all been top notch guys. There are no dirtbags in spec-ops.


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## Wildcat (Apr 24, 2006)

lesofprimus said:


> I have worked with the Aussie SAS before, but still classified..



Righto, nuff said!


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## Nonskimmer (Apr 24, 2006)

Hunter368 said:


> Not sure what year it was but I am sure you will know NS when that airliner went down off the east coast of Canada. He was one of the guys diving down to the plane and pulling bodies out of the ocean. He said it was pretty sick sight to see, many dead.


That was in '98 off Peggy's Cove, not far from Halifax. I know a few guys who pulled the bodies out, and yes it was pretty grotesque. I helped to set up one of the makeshift morgues. That was a helluva crash.


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## Glider (Apr 24, 2006)

I have a relation who worked with special forces in Ireland, but he didn't say which ones. He wasn't special forces but was in bomb disposal and worked with them. If they received word of a bomb in a pub club whatever, they used to go in dressed as civilians to check it out before the Army officially turned up. He would look the place over for the bomb, and special forces would act as 'minders. and look for the ambush. On a number of occaisions the locals twigged as they obviously weren't local but rarely gave the game away because they knew they were there to help. As the bombers didn't bomb there own places they didn't know who the locals were. 

One thing that suprised me was when he told me that the majority of the special forces people weren't the large muscular types, often they were smaller and lean. 

His party piece these days is to hold a conversation with himself in different Irish accents, doesn't sound funny but its hysterical.


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## lesofprimus (Apr 24, 2006)

> One thing that suprised me was when he told me that the majority of the special forces people weren't the large muscular types, often they were smaller and lean.


What weird is that making the cut into Spec War Operations usually has nothing to do with ur size, but with ur willpower, self-motivation and ability to ignore pain....

I worked with guys that were 5'5" 160 lbs and 6'5" 225 lbs.... There was no common size... There were 3 big guys like myself in my BUD/s class, 2 of us made it through...


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## syscom3 (Apr 24, 2006)

lesofprimus said:


> What weird is that making the cut into Spec War Operations usually has nothing to do with ur size, but with ur willpower, self-motivation and ability to ignore pain....
> 
> I worked with guys that were 5'5" 160 lbs and 6'5" 225 lbs.... There was no common size... There were 3 big guys like myself in my BUD/s class, 2 of us made it through...



General Eisenhower had a great saying.

"It isnt the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"


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## stonewall23 (Dec 4, 2006)

The Irish army ranger wing is on a par with any special forces in the world.They are elite ,although a very small force in comparision to most other forces.They have operational experience in Liberia ,south Lebannon , Somalia, East Timor and Ireland .Unlike other forces the shun the limelight and do their job quietly and professionally.Most people are aware of units like the S.E.A.L 's and the S.A.S and are highly regarded ( and rightly so .).But other small nations have units which,although less well funded are equally professional.


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## Udet (Dec 6, 2006)

While i am not here to say the special forces of the mexican army are some of "the best", click on the link to see a video of the independence day military parade held in mexico city this year. A friend of mine who has a brother in the mexican army sent the link to me. He told me these soldiers train in the U.S.A.

At least, the parade looks very neat. 


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp1o-OrsFuc_


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## Hunter368 (Dec 6, 2006)

Cool Udet


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## Udet (Dec 6, 2006)

Click on this link for a better resolution video of the same parade (metal song included hehehehe)


_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4dQVmti8ag_


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## stonewall23 (Dec 6, 2006)

Impressive .Are they as tough as the look. !


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## lesofprimus (Dec 6, 2006)

I can tell u from my experience as a SEAL that they are not... We trained foreign nationals back in the day, and the only ones who showed any promise were the Dutch and the Greeks... I wasnt impressed with any of the Mexican SpecWar guys...


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## stonewall23 (Dec 6, 2006)

I always wanted to know if the irish Ranger wing trained with S.E.A.L's or Delta.I only know for a fact they do train with the 10th Special forces group.Could you shed any light on this,please.


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## lesofprimus (Dec 6, 2006)

Never worked with any Irish Rangers, but got into some trouble with a couple Irish SAS bastardos...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Dec 7, 2006)

Drunken Navy Bastards!


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## Udet (Dec 7, 2006)

Les: interesting comments there. Do you think the fact Mexico is not a nation with strong overseas economic/political interests can influence the performance level of those soldiers?

Mexico has not experienced any major war since the XIX century when the mexican army got its ass utterly kicked. A minor participation was experienced during WWII when only one fighter squadron served in the PTO as a member of the allied side.

In the case of the soldiers from Netherlands and Greece we know both nations are NATO members; also in the case of the Greeks add the Turkey factor to scene, so it would not be surprising to see their soldiers striving for the best standards.

What do you think?


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## lesofprimus (Dec 7, 2006)

From what I can remember, the Mexicans never really had the motivation or the desire to make themselves better... I do recall when they first showed up at Little Creek that they were full of attitude, piss and vinegar...

That changed within the first day.... We ran them into the ground...


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## Matt308 (Dec 7, 2006)




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## stonewall23 (Dec 8, 2006)

A positive mental attitude is important in any way of life ,but essential in the military. " Never let the Bas*%^ get you down ". 
A quote I always liked " The great gales of Ireland are the men that god made mad, for all their war's are merry and all their song's are sad ".


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## killerdragon (Jul 7, 2007)

Poland's Operational Maneuver Reconnaissance Group (GROM) (also referred to as Thunderbolt) is the nation's elite Special Forces (SF) unit. Created 10 years ago to combat terrorist threats, the GROM is Poland's equivalent to the U.S. Delta Force and the British Special Air Service (SAS). GROM personnel undergo rigorous training and have gained international recognition through their participation in several multinational operations. 
there second best in the world says the United stats government web site
8)


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## Glider (Jul 7, 2007)

killerdragon said:


> Poland's Operational Maneuver Reconnaissance Group (GROM) (also referred to as Thunderbolt) is the nation's elite Special Forces (SF) unit. There second best in the world says the United stats government web site
> 8)



Well if the SAS are the best and the Polish unit is second, then The USA must be third.


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## pbfoot (Jul 7, 2007)

Glider said:


> Well if the SAS are the best and the Polish unit is second, then The USA must be third.


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## lesofprimus (Jul 8, 2007)

Yea, and if u believe that, I got a bridge in Lower Manhatten I'll sell to u for real cheap....

Say what u want, but it comes down to the Top 3, and depending on the mission profile, any of them could be #1...

USN SEALs
Israeli Sayeret 13/Matkal/Shaldag
British SAS 22 Regiment


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## Lucky13 (Jul 8, 2007)

How would the Swedish elite forces compare, Minister of Whoopass? Thinking of the Arctic Rangers from I22, Airborne, Attackdykarna and Coastal Rangers....


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## lesofprimus (Jul 8, 2007)

> Thinking of the Arctic Rangers from I22


I cant give much opinion on them as I never worked or trained with them, but Ive not heard anything to elevate them into the realm of the other higher recognized units... I played some "games" with a few Skyddsgruppen SSG fellas, and they were good operators....


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## Lucky13 (Jul 8, 2007)

Just curious to know since their not "proffesional" like many other special forces, but conscripts(?)...

Just saw that they were dispanded in 2000.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 9, 2007)

Well if they were conscripts I would not even try and compare them to the all volunteer comando units from the US, UK, Germany, Israel and so forth.


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## Lucky13 (Jul 9, 2007)

I'm sure that in quality of training etc. we're just as good, but not being like the US, UK etc a proffesional army might have its backside, AND all these defense cuts is a real pain in the (censored)...  
There's not many contries that have same severe winters as we have. Some military units must travel elsewhere to get the taste of tough winter conditions, while we have it in our own backyard. 
You don't always have to be a proffesional army to give the "big boys" a good kicking, just look at the Finnish winter war. Stalins face must have been just as red as the flag of Sovietunion at that time.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 9, 2007)

Lucky13 said:


> I'm sure that in quality of training etc. we're just as good, but not being like the US, UK etc a proffesional army might have its backside, AND all these defense cuts is a real pain in the (censored)...
> There's not many contries that have same severe winters as we have. Some military units must travel elsewhere to get the taste of tough winter conditions, while we have it in our own backyard.
> You don't always have to be a proffesional army to give the "big boys" a good kicking, just look at the Finnish winter war. Stalins face must have been just as red as the flag of Sovietunion at that time.



Yes but when it comes to a conscript Special Forces unit you are going to missing the most crucial thing and that is Experience. If you dont have much time in a unit you are not going to have valuable experienc.


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## Lucky13 (Jul 9, 2007)

Exactly Adler. I know that you can't, well, "buy" experience. Not much chance in 18+ plus months....  that is what's missing in a conscript army, even if we go back every once in a while for a "Repmanad" as we call where we repeat everything for a month. 
Makes me wonder sometimes what the US, UK and others armies would have been like if they still had a conscript army too.


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## SoD Stitch (Jul 9, 2007)

Top ten? How about top 5?

1. Sayeret Mat'kal - Israel
2. SAS/SBS - UK
3. Delta Force - USA
4. GSG-9 - Germany (post-Munich)
5. Spetsnaz - Russia

The reason I put the Sayeret Mat'kal at the top is because they are absolutely ruthless; the other units have more of a political agenda to follow, but the Israelis have nothing to lose (except their lives), so they're willing to take more risks and do what it takes to ensure the survival of their country.


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## Lucky13 (Jul 9, 2007)

Have to admit that I've never heard of Sayeret Mat'kal....


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## Lucky13 (Jul 9, 2007)

Ahum...errmm...cough..cough...

"Before Gustavus, groups of uncoordinated mercenaries composed most armies, with little overall organization or chain of command. The Lion of the North (as he was known) instituted permanent units, assigned a fixed chain of command, and established a philosophy of cooperation among all combatants. Instead of independent action by many different parts, the entire Swedish army now united to fight as a single team. Gustavus's use of supply lines and bases and his integration of infantry, cavalry, and artillery enabled him to form the first truly professional army in military history."


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## lesofprimus (Jul 10, 2007)

SoD said:


> Top ten? How about top 5?
> 
> 1. Sayeret Mat'kal - Israel
> 2. SAS/SBS - UK
> ...


Delta Force and Spetsnaz??? Ranked higher than SEAL TEAM 2 and 4??? Shows just how much u know about the subject meatball....

And GSG-9 aint what it used to be, just a shadow of its former self...


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## Lucky13 (Jul 10, 2007)

I'd say that Spetnaz isn't what it used to be either I'm afraid. About this SEAL 2 and 4, how many SEAL teams is there? Which would be the most experienced one?


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 10, 2007)

lesofprimus said:


> And GSG-9 aint what it used to be, just a shadow of its former self...



Agreed and GSG-9 can not deploy outside of Germany anyhow. Since 1996 they are only for internal anti terror (and other missions obviously) with the borders of Germany or on German Held Land and Property such as the German Embassy in Iraq where GSG-9 is responsible for the protection of the Embassy and its staff.

GSG-9 used to do out of Germany operations but they do not do so now.

Here are some of GSG-9s publicaly aknowledged missions:

October 17, 1977/October 18, 1977: Lufthansa Flight 181 was hijacked by four Arab terrorists demanding the release of Red Army Faction members. GSG-9 stormed the aircraft on the ground in Mogadishu, Somalia and freed all 86 hostages. 

1982: Arrest of RAF terrorists Mohnhaupt and Schulz 

June 27, 1993: Arrest of RAF terrorists Birgit Hogefeld and Wolfgang Grams in Bad Kleinen. Some people believe that Wolfgang Grams was executed in revenge for the death of GSG 9 operative Michael Newrzella during the mission. Grams had shot and killed Newrzella when Newrzella tried to tackle him. However, the official investigation determined that Grams committed suicide. 

1993: Ending of the hijacking of a KLM flight from Tunis to Amsterdam, redirected to Düsseldorf, without firing a single shot. 

1994: End of a hostage situation in the Kassel Penitentiary 

For out of Germany mission the Germans created the *KSK - Kommando Spezialkräfte * in 1996. KSK is considered to be one of the best Special Forces units in the world. Rather than deploy the Police unit GSG-9 they send the KSK on Special Forces missions outside of Germany and this one is controlled by the military and was modelled after the British SAS.

To become a KSK member there is a 2 to 3 year training program. Training includes about 20 Jungle, Desert, Urban and Counter-terrorism specialist courses at over 17 schools worldwide, e.g. in Norway (Arctic), Austria (Mountains), El Paso/Texas or Israel (Desert), San Diego (Water) or Belize (Jungle).


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## SoD Stitch (Jul 10, 2007)

lesofprimus said:


> Delta Force and Spetsnaz??? Ranked higher than SEAL TEAM 2 and 4??? Shows just how much u know about the subject meatball....
> 
> And GSG-9 aint what it used to be, just a shadow of its former self...



Meatball?!?!?!?! Whatever . . .

And, actually, I probably should've included Team 6, but I limited myself to the top five, instead of the top ten. I'd put Team 6 right below the D-boys, but above Spetsnaz.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 10, 2007)

He is a former SEAL that is why he said that....

Oh and like I said GSG-9 should not be on the list. They are a police force that no longer does out of border missions. KSK does that. 

Also you said GSG-9 (post munich). GSG-9 did not exist before Munich. It was formed because of what happened in Munich.


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## SoD Stitch (Jul 10, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> He is a former SEAL that is why he said that....
> 
> Oh and like I said GSG-9 should not be on the list. They are a police force that no longer does out of border missions. KSK does that.
> 
> Also you said GSG-9 (post munich). GSG-9 did not exist before Munich. It was formed because of what happened in Munich.



Got it . . .

Okay, that makes sense (the "meatball" thing) . . . and I did not know they were formed post-Munich, so I guess my statement was rather redundent. For some reason, I thought their first operation was Munich. Oops!


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## pbfoot (Jul 10, 2007)

Lets not forget other forces like the Aussie SAS and Canadian JTF2. How do the Israelis perform in non traditional climates and geography


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## Erich (Jul 10, 2007)

I'm smiling at some of these bold statements within this thread, some of you are totally clueless.

lets just say from this old sage that each of the ones mentioned came up from the bottom ranks to where they are, continuing to be the most elite force under elite leadership - hopefully- some are, are not.

Training, training training, observing, planning, obrserving, stop, think, listen and wait for the right opportunity for your chance.......

and of course the possible off-shoots and there are many in very small bands, each with their own distinct specialty


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## trackend (Jul 10, 2007)

One of the biggest requirements IMO of any special operatives is mental attitude this is the primary requirment.
It is almost impossible to select one over another as being covert in nature the public face is very often different to the operational one 
Mr Ryan, writer of Bravo Two Zero is not very highly thought of by 
The Regiment. Spouting off about the SAS is frowned upon and to make money out of what to all intense and purposes was a **** up mission even more so.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Jul 11, 2007)

I honestly think you can not put one single one down as the best. It depends on the mission and the requirement. Each SF force has its advantages and disadvantages based off of the mission and requirent and what they train the most for.


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## rogthedodge (Jul 16, 2007)

trackend said:


> One of the biggest requirements IMO of any special operatives is mental attitude this is the primary requirment.
> It is almost impossible to select one over another as being covert in nature the public face is very often different to the operational one
> Mr Ryan, writer of Bravo Two Zero is not very highly thought of by
> The Regiment. Spouting off about the SAS is frowned upon and to make money out of what to all intense and purposes was a **** up mission even more so.



It was 'Andy McNabb' who wrote B20, 'Chris Ryan' wrote 'the one that got away' - see Peter Radcliffe's (22 SAS RSM) book 'the eye of the storm' for an interesting perspective on Mr McNabb, his part in the failure, and his opus.

As above think it's an unanswerable question, the answer is probably most of them


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## Morph (Oct 2, 2007)

In connection to a previous members line of question regarding the Taakmag or special task force of South Africa, they as i understand it are more of a police squad with similar stage training to most special force in the world their training include HALO jumps ,clearance diving and Bomb teqh, i worked with some of these ex cops in private contract and they are elite ,most have left because of changing attitudes in SA, this is a clip i found on youtube ,as i understand it they have nine stages in their selection which includes this first month where they do the 200km march with 50kg train track and ball over three days without food and water and no sleep

_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5mv2vg0oZA_
The real military special forces in South Africa is the RECCE`S which was known as the toughest insurgent tracking unit ,these days they combine both sea and land operations and compete very effectively


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## Flying Penquin (Oct 2, 2007)

Sir you been a CANADIAN if one remembers you have a very very good SF unit namley the SRU. First came across them in a film with Y.Brinner in the lead roll


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## Flying Penquin (Oct 2, 2007)

Not seamed to have had a mention


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## Flying Penquin (Oct 2, 2007)

And then there is another british unit that don't seam to have a lot wrote on them SPAG


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## Morph (Oct 2, 2007)

The one thing i can remember training with the Americans troops were the fantastic equipement you guys had, and how great it was to get my hands on some of it. The best special forces ,are the units that can survive with limit support and equipment, a few of my mates went and joined the foreign legion who now issue very old equipment to both their clearance divers and infantry but still maintain a high standard in operations and training.


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## Watanbe (Oct 3, 2007)

Morph im interested in your background and you opinion on the AUS SAS?


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## pbfoot (Oct 3, 2007)

Flying Penquin said:


> Sir you been a CANADIAN if one remembers you have a very very good SF unit namley the SRU. First came across them in a film with Y.Brinner in the lead roll


Never heard of them


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## SoD Stitch (Oct 3, 2007)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> I honestly think you can not put one single one down as the best. It depends on the mission and the requirement. Each SF force has its advantages and disadvantages based off of the mission and requirent and what they train the most for.



Very well said . . .

I think you'd have to narrow it down to some very specific instances as to who was best in what scenario; there are some decent "all-rounders", like the SAS and SEAL's, whereas some are very good at specific scenarios, like the FBI HRT, Delta and the Israeli Sayeret Mat'kal (see the movie _Munich_).


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## Aggie08 (Oct 3, 2007)

I think that was the intelligence service Mossad, not the defense forces. I could be wrong.


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## SoD Stitch (Oct 3, 2007)

Aggie08 said:


> I think that was the intelligence service Mossad, not the defense forces. I could be wrong.



You could be right; I'm planning on reading the book the movie was based on, _Vengeance: The True Story Of an Israeli Counter-Terrorist Team_, by George Jonas, one of the members of the Team. I've got it on order from my local library; I'll let you know "the truth".


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 4, 2007)

SoD Stitch said:


> Very well said . . .
> 
> I think you'd have to narrow it down to some very specific instances as to who was best in what scenario; there are some decent "all-rounders", like the SAS and SEAL's, whereas some are very good at specific scenarios, like the FBI HRT, Delta and the Israeli Sayeret Mat'kal (see the movie _Munich_).



I agree and I am sure that some of our members who have Spec Op experience will agree as well.


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## lesofprimus (Oct 4, 2007)

I almost agree Adler... In the SEAL Teams, there are Platoons that train for very specific mission profiles, ie diving, land warfare, anti-terrorism etc etc... Also, each Teammate has specialized training in a couple different enviornments, be it in the arctic, the desert, mountains, jungle or swamp...


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 4, 2007)

Yeah I understand what you are saying, Im just talking about the overall picture of things.


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## Morph (Oct 4, 2007)

Mate served in 6RAR and loads of time in private security abroad. Worked with ex special forces guys from US police and military very quick on the gun but at least you have great support and most of the time they can back up what they say,Britain every one things they are special ops,the South-African both police and military very gutsy and pro, and some great ex Rhodesian or Zimbawean guys. The question i had to ask myself was when NZL and AUS infantry were outclassing some countries special forces how special could they really be ?


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## Soren (Oct 5, 2007)

SEAL, SAS, Delta Force etc etc, have all been mentioned I'm sure - So, don't know if these have already been mentioned, but, don't forget the GSG-9 KSK-9. 

The GSG-9 (Anti terror) won every event at the SWAT World Challenge 2005, and won again in 2006 with 4 first places in the 8 different competitions. Top notch unit.

The KSK-9 (Germany's SAS / Military Spec-Ops unit) is the equal of any special forces in the world. 

Also don't forget the Danish Jäger-Korps, they're second to none. 

So which is the best ? I seriously can't say, but the SAS JägerKorps rank highest IMO.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Oct 6, 2007)

GSG-9 really are nothing more than an anti terror police unit. They are not allowed to leave Germany's borders or anything like that. There was some GSG-9 in Iraq protecting the German Ambassador but nothing else.

KSK is the military unit and is based off the SAS and recieved there training from the SAS.


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## Nonskimmer (Oct 6, 2007)

Flying Penquin said:


> Sir you been a CANADIAN if one remembers you have a very very good SF unit namley the SRU. First came across them in a film with Y.Brinner in the lead roll





pbfoot said:


> Never heard of them


Neither have I, unless he's talking about Search and Rescue. Dunno. 

Good, dedicated, skilled guys, but not exactly special forces.


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## plan_D (Oct 11, 2007)

All major SpecOps are more than impressive as I said before this could go on forever. And as Glider says it's quite amazing when you realise how small a lot of them are...my dad was in a FOB in the desert during the Gulf seeing lads from the coalition into Iraq in the back of a Chinook (Dan probably rode in one and met my dad without knowing, as we've spoken before) and he was impressed with these lads with packs almost the size of them and god knows how many weapons. As has been said it's all mental, stamina and intelligence...and all earn the greatest of respect from me, whether they're number one or not. 

But SAS are senior, respect your elders DAN!


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## lesofprimus (Oct 11, 2007)

Dont get me wrong, theres more than a couple SAS guys I worked with who impressed the hell outta me as Operators, but as a whole entity, I dont think their (SAS) level of training or tempo rival some of the other Spec Ops communites...

I do remember in Iraq, we were getting ready to hit a certain somebody, and as the mission was being briefed, the SAS guys hadda go have their afternoon tea....

Afternoon Tea???

We're gettin ready to head North some 150 klicks and its Tea Time???


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## Udet (Oct 11, 2007)

Were SAS deployed during the Falklands war? If so, how did they fare?


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## lesofprimus (Oct 11, 2007)

Given the threat to the British fleet posed by the Etendard / Exocet combination, plans were made to use Special Air Service troops to attack the home base of the five Etendards at Río Grande, Tierra del Fuego. The aim was to destroy the missiles and the aircraft that carried them, and to kill the pilots in their quarters. Two plans were drafted and underwent preliminary rehearsal: a landing by approximately fifty-five SAS in two C-130 Hercules aircraft directly on the runway at Rio Grande; and infiltration of twenty-four SAS by inflatable boats brought within a few miles of the coast by submarine. Neither plan was implemented; the earlier airborne assault plan attracted considerable hostility from some members of the SAS, who considered the proposed raid a suicide mission. Ironically, the Rio Grande area would be defended by four full-strength battalions of Marine Infantry of the Argentine Marine Corps of the Argentine Navy, some of whose officers were trained in the UK by SB Sqn years earlier. After the war, Argentine marine commanders admitted that they were waiting for some kind of landing by SAS forces but never expected a Hercules to land directly on their runways, although they would have pursued British forces even into Chilean territory if they were attacked.

A SAS reconnaissance team was dispatched to carry out preparations for a seaborne infiltration. A Westland Sea King helicopter carrying the assigned team took off from HMS Invincible on the night of May 17, but bad weather forced it to land 50 miles (80 km) from its target, and the mission was aborted. The pilot flew to Chile and dropped off the SAS team, before setting fire to his helicopter and surrendering to the Chilean authorities. The discovery of the burnt-out helicopter attracted considerable international attention at the time.

On May 14, the SAS carried out the raid on Pebble Island at the Falklands, where the Argentine Navy had taken over a grass airfield for FMA IA 58 Pucará light ground attack aircraft and T-34 Mentors. The raid destroyed the aircraft there.


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## Morph (Oct 15, 2007)

It was also during this main attack that the SAS lost one soldier and seven were wounded due to friendly fire, from one of their other patrols.


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