# Favorite 5 Aircraft- All Eras Allowed.



## HealzDevo (Nov 9, 2004)

Okay, this is a new topic by Healz. Favorite 5 aircraft of any of the six eras: Pre-WW1, WW1, Interwar Years, WW2, Post-WW2, Modern. Pre-WW1 is the period up to 1914, WW1 is the period from 1914-1918, Interwar Years are 1918-1939, WW2 is 1939-1945, Post-WW2 is 1945-1950, Modern is 1950-2004. This is how I would define the eras as 1950 and the Korean-Vietnam War was the true end of Piston aircraft as fighters and bombers and the begining of the jet age which we are in. 

1. Must be an aircraft that has flown in real life 
at least once as a prototype. (Imposed this rule 
to make sure that it is a real aircraft and not 
made-up) 
2. Helicopters are included as aircraft for the 
purposes of this topic.
3. It can either be a civil or a military plane, 
although mine are mostly military.
4. Can't be a paper plane or an airship as I don't 
really consider airships or hotair balloons as 
planes.

Okay, my list will kick this thread off:

1. AH-64D Apache Longbow- Modern Helicopter- Tank 
Hunter, Killer.
2. Spitfire- Famous Fighter from the Battle of 
Britain with extraordinary manouverability. WW2
3. Mustang- US escort fighter given to the British 
by the US and perfected by the British into a 
potent escort-fighter that was used to great 
effect in Europe and the Pacific. WW2
4. B-36 Peacemaker. Large US Bomber built just 
after WW2 that dwarfed the B-29 Stratofortress. 
It was a plane that could carry a large amount of 
nuclear weapons or conventional explosives. 
Post-WW2.
5. Sopwith Pup- I think those WW1 fighters are cool 
and I admire the courage of their pilots in their 
fragile machines.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 10, 2004)

1. Piaggio P.108
2. Lockheed P-38
3. B-52 Stratofortress
4. Apache (Dont know hich one, but what ever one comes with 72 Hellfire missiles  )
5. Avro Vulcan


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## JCS (Nov 10, 2004)

1) De Havilland DH2
2) Messerschmitt Bf109E, G
3) Tupolev Tu-95
4) Stinson Reliant SR9
5) Dassault Mirage 2000


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 11, 2004)

Other than the 109, ive never heard of any of them


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## GermansRGeniuses (Nov 11, 2004)

JCS said:


> 1) De Havilland DH2
> 2) Messerschmitt Bf109E, G
> 3) Tupolev Tu-95
> 4) Stinson Reliant SR9
> 5) Dassault Mirage 2000



Dh2:





Bf109: needs no introduction
Tu-95:




Sr9:




Mirage200:







There ya go...


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 11, 2004)

Well I just dont get the SR9


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## JCS (Nov 12, 2004)

> Well I just dont get the SR9



Meaning, you don't get why I like it or.....?


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## lesofprimus (Nov 12, 2004)

1) Fw-190D-9 
2) A-10 Thunderbolt
3) Ta-152H
4) F-15 Strike Eagle
5) Fw-190A8/R2


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## kiwimac (Nov 13, 2004)

I HAD replied to this but it seems to have disappeared.

try 2

DH2

Sopwith Camel

Fokker DVII

Me109F

FW-190

)I also like the He-280) 


Kiwimac


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## kiwimac (Nov 13, 2004)

hmmm,

Once again my 'kills' have gone missing. 

Kiwimac


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 13, 2004)

JCS said:


> > Well I just dont get the SR9
> 
> 
> 
> Meaning, you don't get why I like it or.....?



Yeah, basically that


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 13, 2004)

1) F-22 Raptor (damn defence cuts!  )

2) Su-37

3) Mig-29 all variants

4) CF-105 Arrow (damn shortsighted Canadian government!  )

5) Chance-Vought Corsair


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 13, 2004)

Why do all Canadians love the Corsair?


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## evangilder (Nov 13, 2004)

1) Spartan Executive
2) T-28 Trojan
3) P-51 Mustang
4) A-10 Warthog
5) Turbo Legend


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## lesofprimus (Nov 13, 2004)

Very interesting List evan.... WTH is a Spartan Exec????


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 13, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> Why do all Canadians love the Corsair?



 Are you kidding? It's "Whistling Death", man! 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 13, 2004)

8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 14, 2004)

> Apache (Dont know hich one, but what ever one comes with 72 Hellfire missiles )



no one Apache model comes with 72 helfire missiles, the aircraft can be fitted with 148 (i think, not to sure) unguided rockets, 16 helfire or a combination of both and 4 sidewinders....................


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Nov 14, 2004)

1) Fw-190 A-8
2) Ho-229
3) Messerschmitt Bf 109 E, F tropical, and G
4) Me-262
5) Fokker Dr.I


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## GermansRGeniuses (Nov 14, 2004)

Bah, prefer the A-9....


It's faster!


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## HealzDevo (Nov 14, 2004)

Great to see the response of you all. I posted this topic as a little bit of a general aviation quizz. I just like the AH-64D Apache Longbow because it has fire-behind cover capabilities and the ability to designate zones where all you have to do is press the button to fire a radar-guided hellfire and the missiles and radar do all the work for you. I have the game Longbow Anthology which I bought for a Windows 98 Computer I had and am now hoping to get it running properly under XP. It is the coolest!! If ever you get the opportunity to buy Longbow 1 or 2 do it, as you won't regret it.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 15, 2004)

The Jagdflieger Pips said:


> 1) Fw-190 A-8
> 2) Ho-229
> 3) Messerschmitt Bf 109 E, F tropical, and G
> 4) Me-262
> 5) Fokker Dr.I



A nice wide range of aircraft from all eras and countries there


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## evangilder (Nov 15, 2004)

Here is a shot of it Les. It was made in the 30s for an oil executive transport. She's a beauty, with all the luxury accomodations inside.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 15, 2004)

Actually thats a pretty nice looking plane 8)


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## evangilder (Nov 15, 2004)

There was actually a military version of it as well, called the UC-71, so I guess it could classify as a warbird as well.


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Nov 15, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> The Jagdflieger Pips said:
> 
> 
> > 1) Fw-190 A-8
> ...



 Yeah, I know. ^_^;;


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 17, 2004)

wow and people say i'm bias...........


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 17, 2004)

You are biased...


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Nov 17, 2004)

If there were ten, it wouldn't be all German WWII planes.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 17, 2004)

What would be your top 10 then?


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## The Jagdflieger Pips (Nov 18, 2004)

6) Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird
7) Ilyushin 2
8.) Grumman F-14 Tomcat
9) Mitsubishi A6M Zero
10) Supermarine Spitfire.

Eh, I love WWII planes.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 18, 2004)

Me too, im not a fan of more modern planes


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## HealzDevo (Nov 19, 2004)

That is why I made this all eras, Military and Civil and included helicopters as planes, because the first helicopters were basically designed very similar to planes. This thread is going better than I had hoped.


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 19, 2004)

Can we include airships/blimps/zeppelins; whatever you wanna call them?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 19, 2004)

and technically helicopters are aircraft..............


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 19, 2004)

Yup, and so are airships


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Nov 20, 2004)

actually no they're not, an aircraft as to be a powered, heavier than air, craft, airships are lighter than air.................


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 20, 2004)

To be technical, any machine that flies is an aircraft. It doesn't necessarily require an engine.
Hot air balloons, blimps, zeppelins, gliders...all are "aircraft".


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 20, 2004)

Yeah...Some airships have propellors too y'know; to make em faster...


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 20, 2004)

Yeah, I know. I was just giving examples of "aircraft".


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## cheddar cheese (Nov 20, 2004)

Technically a paper plane is an aircraft


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 20, 2004)




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## cheddar cheese (Nov 20, 2004)

If airships are alowed my list goes to this:

1. Piaggio P.108 
2. Lockheed P-38 
3. Hindenburg
4. B-52 Stratofortress 
5. Apache Longbow


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## Mushroom Cloud (Dec 1, 2004)

1. F-4 Phantom II
2. PE-2 Bomber
3. B-52H BUFF
4. IL-2 Sturmovik
5. Lancaster Bomber


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## GermansRGeniuses (Dec 2, 2004)

Personal opinion, but I prefer the B-52G "Cadillac," what with its better range, load, speed, and engines...


Welcome!


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## Mushroom Cloud (Dec 2, 2004)

Thank You.

I find the B-52G to be too cold and sterile. Where's the heart? 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 2, 2004)

Yeah, B-52H all the way for me too 8)


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## GermansRGeniuses (Dec 2, 2004)

Mushroom Cloud said:


> Thank You.
> 
> I find the B-52G to be too cold and sterile. Where's the heart? 8)




Well, they're basically the same...



The H had more interesting paint schemes, which gave it some character, but I like the power of the G...


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## rebel8303 (Dec 3, 2004)

1.)Fw 190
2.)Swordfish
3.)Avro Lancaster
4.)F-16
5.)Su-27

Well I´m in favor of WWII planes and I have no idea of what they were flying with in WWI except that I´ve heard some names like fokker, sopwith camel.
(Feels so embarassed)


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 3, 2004)

Dont be, Im stumped on WW1 planes too


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 3, 2004)

good choise with the lancaster, my favourite aircraft of all time!! and the Su-27, best looking russian fighter, easily.................


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 3, 2004)

Ive developed a sudden liking for the PZL P.11...


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## rebel8303 (Dec 4, 2004)

Well that belly tower of PZL P.23 makes feel good too


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 4, 2004)

my list coming soon..................


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 4, 2004)

Thought you'd done yours?


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 4, 2004)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> good choise with the lancaster, my favourite aircraft of all time!! and the Su-27, best looking russian fighter, easily.................



Nice choices!  
But I think the Su-33's to 37's look a bit better. The cunnards add to the look! 8)


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## rebel8303 (Dec 4, 2004)

Oh my god I still get PZL P.23 out of my mind!
I think I fell in love


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 4, 2004)

> Thought you'd done yours?



nope


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 4, 2004)

rebel8303 said:


> Oh my god I still get PZL P.23 out of my mind!
> I think I fell in love



Ah PZL's...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 5, 2004)

i've yet to go through my PZL phase...........


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 5, 2004)

Youre in for a treat. 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 5, 2004)

I mean just look at the wonderful PZL P.11 - doesnt it just make your heart melt? 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 5, 2004)

ah, doesn't really do it for me.............


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## GermansRGeniuses (Dec 5, 2004)

I have to agree with you, lanc...



Amazingly...


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 5, 2004)

I dunno. I think it's kinda cute! :fadein:


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 5, 2004)

Its a great a/c!

Perhaps the lanc and GrG will understand when theyre older


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## Medvedya (Dec 5, 2004)

The good thing about the P.11 is that it's so slow, that on-line players roar in, expecting an easy kill - totally misjudge just how slow it really is and fly right over the top! Then you can maul them a bit as they go over! heh heh heh.


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 5, 2004)

Wow you actually use it in battle?! Good man! its an amazing Ground attack aircraft and bloody tough too, my engine was seriously smoking but it made several more passes before being taken out by a 210


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 5, 2004)

And it turns on a dime!


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## Medvedya (Dec 5, 2004)

One of the quirks of online games, you can fly the AI planes, and on one of the servers I found you could fly the business end of a Mistel - Fools! I had loads of mindless fun, trying to ram people, and vulching an entire airbase just by crashing down onto it! (hey, they said bombs and rockets were okay)


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 5, 2004)

Cool! 8) Hey No-one told me AI planes were availiable in online games...

Now Im gonna join the HG's 8) (Tomorrow though)


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## Medvedya (Dec 5, 2004)

There's only one rule with the blasties - you're not allowed to shoot at any other H.G's apart from a guy called Black Scorpion mm'kay?


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 6, 2004)

Ok... 



> Scorp.jpg.gif



Wow, 2 file types, didnt think that was possible


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## Medvedya (Dec 6, 2004)

Oops, yes, I had to convert it to a .jpg in photoshop so I could use it when I was making up a sig.


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 6, 2004)

ah 8)


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## HealzDevo (Dec 11, 2004)

I would not consider airships and balloons to be aircraft. Some might but I don't due to the fact that they are deriving their main source of lift from a bag of helium or some similar gas over the cockpit/gondelia (However you spell the name of those Venice boats). I suppose I'll accept gliders although I was mainly thinking of powered flight if you'll notice that all the planes on my list have engines. To be a plane though it has to have wings or something similar, the blades in the case of helicopters providing the main lift. With an airship all the rotors do is drive the airship forward, they don't keep it in the air.


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 11, 2004)

Oh, ok 8)


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## R Pope (Dec 12, 2004)

!--Sopwith Triplane
2--Hall Bulldog
3--Polikarpov I-16
4--deHaviland Hornet
5--Avro Canada Arrow


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## lesofprimus (Dec 12, 2004)

After wiewing the above list, i need some recuperation time... My brain almost shirt-circuted.... Im still stunned at that list....


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 13, 2004)

Whats wrong with it?


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## lesofprimus (Dec 13, 2004)

Its the most bizarre one by a mile... Evans was kinda crazy, but this one takes the cake....


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 14, 2004)

Oh, I wouldnt know...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 14, 2004)

R Pope said:


> !--Sopwith Triplane
> 2--Hall Bulldog
> 3--Polikarpov I-16
> 4--deHaviland Hornet
> 5--Avro Canada Arrow



well it's err............ interesting..............


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## lesofprimus (Dec 14, 2004)

To say the least....


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 14, 2004)

I can only visualise one of those aircraft.


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## wmaxt (Dec 25, 2004)

P-38
SR-71
B-25
Spitfire
F-15

The order changes and there are about 30 close seconds. I've been around aircraft all my life and seen many many fly (mostly US Airforce from the '60s to present including the SR-71 - incredible! Even a stint at Edwards AFB test center.) but after watching several air races I think the WWII planes are the best or at least have the most Class.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 26, 2004)

sorry guys, still thinking about my list................


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 28, 2004)

It doesnt need to be thought about, you can always change it, hasnt done me any harm


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## plan_D (Dec 28, 2004)

1. F.6 Lightning
2. Mk. XVIII Spitfire
3. F-4 Phantom 
4. F-16 Falcon
5. CH-47 Chinook


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## GermansRGeniuses (Dec 28, 2004)

Nice list, I especially like the topper...


Knowing the people here, though, that's gonna cause controversy...


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 29, 2004)

Controversy indeed, not enough from WW2


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 29, 2004)

Hence the "All Eras Allowed" part of the heading.


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 29, 2004)

I dont care, it needs more WW2 planes


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 29, 2004)

i don't approve of the F-4 and F-16 being in your list..............


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 29, 2004)

I dont have a clue what the F-4 is but I like the F-16.


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## evangilder (Dec 29, 2004)

cheddar cheese said:


> I dont have a clue what the F-4 is but I like the F-16.



F-4 Phantom for ya...


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 29, 2004)

One of the coolest warplanes ever made IMO, especially the later variants!


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 29, 2004)

Ah now I recognise it, just couldnt put a name to a face, so to speak


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## plan_D (Dec 30, 2004)

Why don't you approve of the F-4 or F-16? Not that I'll change the list, I just want to know. 

The F-4 was an amazing plane and extremely versatile. It was also the first US plane to be able to reach the altitudes of Tu-95. And a very nice looking and mean sounding plane, the American ones are extremely dirty ...  So, the British put RR Spey engines in. 

And the F-16? What's wrong with that, a beautiful nimble and effective aircraft.


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 30, 2004)

I like F-86D Sabre


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## Nonskimmer (Dec 30, 2004)

plan_D said:


> the American ones are extremely dirty ...  So, the British put RR Spey engines in.



The Spey's weren't that much cleaner.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 30, 2004)

yeah but you see neither of them are british, and the 4 aircraft that have sealed a place in my list so far are all british


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## plan_D (Dec 31, 2004)

The Speys were cleaner. The British can't have dirty aircraft flying around all of the place, even now wieners are trying to restrict the sound they make. And the thing that started it all was a low flying Chinook. 

Anyway, I'll change the F-16 to AC-130 'Spectre' the F-16 can be sixth.


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 31, 2004)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> yeah but you see neither of them are british, and the 4 aircraft that have sealed a place in my list so far are all british



Im guessing theyre the Mossie, Lanc, EE Lightning and Vulcan (Though not necessarily in that order)...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Dec 31, 2004)

better i suppose...........


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## cheddar cheese (Dec 31, 2004)

Read my above post lanc...


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## The Jug Rules! (Jan 4, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> 1) F-22 Raptor (damn defence cuts!  )
> 
> I was wondeing what happened to the F-22!


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## The Jug Rules! (Jan 4, 2005)

X-P72

X-F5u( flying flapjack)

P-47n

P-39 (X model before they screwed it up  )

F-22

A-10


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 4, 2005)

XP-39? Thats pretty strange, I always preferred the P-39Q. Mind you, I only like VVS P-39's....


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## The Jug Rules! (Jan 5, 2005)

The x model had an Allison supercharged engine with intercooler, and could have reached speeds close to 400. It also had a longer span wing and a roomier cockpit. But, the Q models were O.k too.

They also had an experimental model of the P-38. I think that it was called the K. (not sure) It was a modified E with Hamilton Standard 3-blade props. It could have really did something, if the morons would have waited a few weeks for the factory to change over. I'll try to find the article.


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## The Jug Rules! (Jan 5, 2005)

Could someone please tell me what is an EE Lightning????


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 5, 2005)

yes CC that's exactily my list so far  how did you know??


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 5, 2005)

Well it wasnt really difficult was it 

EE Lightning - English Electic Lightning, Perhaps the best Jet Interceptor of all time...

Yeah the P-38K would have been good. Instead that went on with the L model though...but that was ok too


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## plan_D (Jan 6, 2005)

My god, someone didn't know what an EE Lightning was. It was the best interceptor for the majority of the cold war, it was the only thing that could reach the altitude of the Soviet bombers until the F-4 Phantom. Mach 2.3 - 60,000 ft - 1947 Design - "Beauty to fly, bugger to fix"







5 Sqn. F.6 Lightning intercepting a Tu-95 Bear. Different squadrons (As well as my dads 11 Sqn.) intercepted Bears and Bisons everyday during the 60s and 70s.


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## evangilder (Jan 6, 2005)

One more thing about the Lightning. It was the first fighter to have a 1:1 thrust to weight ratio or better, meaning it would not lose speed in a straight up climb. I got to see one fly several times at air shows while I was in England. I gotta say I thought it was really cool. Here is one of my old shots of it. Not a very good shot, but you can see how low he was for the pass. No, he was NOT taking off!


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## plan_D (Jan 6, 2005)

You know that engine thing is wrong. The combined thrust of the two Rolls Royce Avon engines is above the weight of the Lightning when empty. This means, no fuel. That means, the Lightning isn't going to go anywhere. 
When the Lightning has fuel it's heavier than it's thrust. It does lose speed when it's gaining altitude, just not much. The Lightning Sqn. were told to stop taking off vertically because of the stress on the air frame - the riggers used to complain.






11 Sqn. F.6 Lightning. Those things got really hot in the Cyprus sun, I'm told.


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## evangilder (Jan 6, 2005)

Hmm, I was told about the thrust to weight ratio several times bydifferent people, but then, maybe it was one of those things that one person said and it spread. Either way, it was one heck of an airplane. 8)


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## plan_D (Jan 6, 2005)

A lot of people make that mistake. Yes, the thrust of the engines is more than the weight of the aircraft but only when the aircraft is empty which means no fuel.


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## evangilder (Jan 6, 2005)

Fuel is kind of important!


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 6, 2005)

Unless we're talking about gliders


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## The Jug Rules! (Jan 6, 2005)

Ohhhhh! I knew about that plane! . I didn't know that it was so good though.


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## lesofprimus (Jan 6, 2005)

There are still some members that havent posted a Top 5... GrG, LG, erich, RG, LANC, Cripps, G/C ect ect.....
Here are all the lists so far.....


HealzDevo

1. AH-64D Apache Longbow
2. Spitfire
3. Mustang
4. B-36 Peacemaker 
5. Sopwith Pup

cheddar cheese

1. Piaggio P.108 
2. Lockheed P-38 
3. B-52 Stratofortress 
4. Apache (Dont know hich one, but what ever one comes with 72 Hellfire missiles ) 
5. Avro Vulcan 

If airships are alowed my list goes to this: 

1. Piaggio P.108 
2. Lockheed P-38 
3. Hindenburg 
4. B-52 Stratofortress 
5. Apache Longbow

JCS

1) De Havilland DH2 
2) Messerschmitt Bf109E, G 
3) Tupolev Tu-95 
4) Stinson Reliant SR9 
5) Dassault Mirage 2000

lesofprimus

1) Fw-190D-9 
2) A-10 Thunderbolt 
3) Ta-152H 
4) F-15 Strike Eagle 
5) Fw-190A8/R2

kiwimac

DH2 
Sopwith Camel 
Fokker DVII 
Me109F 
FW-190 

Nonskimmer

1) F-22 Raptor (damn defence cuts! ) 
2) Su-37 
3) Mig-29 all variants 
4) CF-105 Arrow (damn shortsighted Canadian government! ) 
5) Chance-Vought Corsair

evangilder

1) Spartan Executive 
2) T-28 Trojan 
3) P-51 Mustang 
4) A-10 Warthog 
5) Turbo Legend

The Jagdflieger Pips

1) Fw-190 A-8 
2) Ho-229 
3) Messerschmitt Bf 109 E, F tropical, and G 
4) Me-262 
5) Fokker Dr.I 
6) Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird 
7) Ilyushin 2 
8.) Grumman F-14 Tomcat 
9) Mitsubishi A6M Zero 
10) Supermarine Spitfire

Mushroom Cloud

1. F-4 Phantom II 
2. PE-2 Bomber 
3. B-52H BUFF 
4. IL-2 Sturmovik 
5. Lancaster Bomber

rebel8303

1.)Fw 190 
2.)Swordfish 
3.)Avro Lancaster 
4.)F-16 
5.)Su-27 

R Pope

!--Sopwith Triplane 
2--Hall Bulldog 
3--Polikarpov I-16 
4--deHaviland Hornet 
5--Avro Canada Arrow 

wmaxt

P-38 
SR-71 
B-25 
Spitfire 
F-15 

plan_D

1. F.6 Lightning 
2. Mk. XVIII Spitfire 
3. F-4 Phantom 
4. AC-130
5. CH-47 Chinook 

The Jug Rules (The Jug is 3rd on his list BTW hehe)

X-P72 
X-F5u( flying flapjack) 
P-47n 
P-39 (X model before they screwed it up ) 
F-22 
A-10

There is one plane that is listed more often than the others, and has more #1 votes....

The Fw-190 has 3 #1 votes and 5 votes in all..... (1,1,5,1,5)
The Spifire has 2 #2 votes and 3 votes in all... (2,4,2)
The Bf-109 has 3 votes in all.... (2,4,3)
The Sopwith Pup has 3 votes in all..... (5,2,1)
The DeHaviland DH2 has 2 #1 votes..... (1,1)
The P-38 has 2 votes... (2,1)
The F-4 Phantom has 2 votes... (1,3)
The Apache has 2 votes.. (1,4)
The F-22 Raptor has 2 votes... (1,5)

This is a great looking list........

And yes it took alot of time to put this together......

Lets get the rest of the missing lists posted......


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 6, 2005)

We know 4 of the Lancs but not the order...


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## plan_D (Jan 7, 2005)

Try gliding a Lightning, C.C. It'd drop like a brick...


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 7, 2005)

What kind of Lightning? Lockheed P-38 Lightning, English Electric Lightning, or Ford F-150 Lightning Pick-up?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 7, 2005)

come on people, start voting for the lanc more..........


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 7, 2005)

For what it's worth (probably not much), I like the Lanc.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 7, 2005)

and so you should...............


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## The Jug Rules! (Jan 7, 2005)

evangilder said:


> 1) Spartan Executive
> 2) T-28 Trojan
> 3) P-51 Mustang
> 4) A-10 Warthog
> 5) Turbo Legend




Turbo Legend??????


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## The Jug Rules! (Jan 7, 2005)

I didn't know it was in order!!!


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## plan_D (Jan 7, 2005)

EE Lightning. I imagine the -38 would glide pretty well...and the pick up truck...hmm...we could try?


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 7, 2005)

Some drunken American is abound to drive off a cliff in one someday, well see then


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## evangilder (Jan 7, 2005)

Here is the Legend. I mistyped it, it is a Turbine Legend, not a Turbo Legend. Anyway, here is what it looks like. It's quick, but has good low speed performance as well. Available in kit form for about $25,000.


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 7, 2005)

Cool!


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## evangilder (Jan 7, 2005)

I also have a video of 2 of them at Camarillo this past air show. Low altittude, high speed passes with high angle climbs. I'll try and make a low bandwidth version to post if anyone is interested. The current one (High quality) is about 120MB! I can probably do a low-bandwidth, lower quality version of about 4 MB or so.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 7, 2005)

Im interested! 8) It sorta looks like a cross between the P-39 and the P-51...


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## plan_D (Jan 7, 2005)

It does?


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## DaveB.inVa (Jan 7, 2005)

1) B-29 Superfortress Silverplate version
2) Junkers Ju-52/3e g3e bomber version
3) SPAD XII with 37mm Puteaux cannon and Deperdussin controls
4) B-52H Stratofortress / B-36J Featherweight III version
5) MC-130 Combat Talon


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 7, 2005)

Ok, I just now saw this thread. I am going to do my best to put together an all-time favorite five but this is without too much thought put into it.

1) P-38 Lightning
2) F-22 Raptor (or Lightning II as I still call it)
3) F-15 Eagle
4) B-24 Liberator family (including the PB4Y-2)
5) B-1B

Naming a top 5 was really hard. There are a lot of aircraft I love and the list is probably in a total state of flux (except for that first one of course).


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## lesofprimus (Jan 8, 2005)

Very good list..... Both of ya...


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## plan_D (Jan 8, 2005)

Wouldn't the Raptor be Lightning III since EE had the second Lightning.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 8, 2005)

well not to the americans............


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## plan_D (Jan 8, 2005)

But...do we care what they think?  Just kiddin' for those hot tempered yanks.


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## evangilder (Jan 8, 2005)

Here you go, a Windows Media file of the Turbine Legend. Actually there are 2 different Legends in this clip. Now you can see it in action. It does remind me of a P-51 when it is in flight. 

I can make it even smaller in size, but then the quality gets REALLY bad. This is a compromise. Enjoy...


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 8, 2005)

Nice! And that can be mine for the low price of $25,000(US), eh?
Hmmm...Factor in the fuel, maintenance, and not the least important of all: flying lessons.  
It'd be a great idea, but I think I'll just watch them.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 8, 2005)

To hell with flying lessons, ill teach myself!


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 8, 2005)

And of course only two of those Lightnings were produced by Lockheed.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 8, 2005)

you know i reckon if i knew where everything was in the aircraft i could give flying the aircraft a damn good go............


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 8, 2005)

Me too... I mean it cant be too hard, especially in a Piper Cub or Cessna C-172 or something...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 9, 2005)

it's just a case of knowing where all the controlls are................


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## evangilder (Jan 9, 2005)

In the right conditions, it's not too hard. It's the crosswind landings, poor weather approaches and unexpected events that make the difference between life and a splotch on the ground. Give me a nice, calm VFR day anytime.


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## lesofprimus (Jan 9, 2005)

I had a Junior Pilots License vack in the day..... Flew a small little Cessna when my Dad was in his flying club... It was not very hard at all......


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 9, 2005)

Cool 8) Its only really the take-off and landings that are tricky (well not so much the take off) but just flying the plane's gotts be easy...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 9, 2005)

untill that bit juuuuuuust before you crash............


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 9, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> untill that bit juuuuuuust before you crash............



"What's this switch do?...Nope! How about this one?...Nope!...Nope!...Nope!...Awww shit!!!"


----------



## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 9, 2005)

"now what did he say about this big red button??"


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 9, 2005)

Actually, flight simulators can help for memorization...

There's this uptight mod be the name of Hunhunter over at Il-2skinswho was taking lessons in a Cessna 172, and used Fs2004 to help with getting used to blind spots, where controls are, reading gauges quickly, etc.


Many schools use it as an aid as well.

My biggest problem so far has been lining up for landing and doing the tail-down approach needed for trikes, as well as getting low enough for the zero-pitch position for tail-draggers...



Well, that and the fact that I can't see under me!


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## wmaxt (Jan 9, 2005)

GermansRGeniuses said:


> Actually, flight simulators can help for memorization...
> 
> There's this uptight mod be the name of Hunhunter over at Il-2skinswho was taking lessons in a Cessna 172, and used Fs2004 to help with getting used to blind spots, where controls are, reading gauges quickly, etc.
> 
> ...



Some flight sims are real enough that some governments are using them to replace flying/training time. Major airlines are using them for training/qualification/requalifying. Fed/Ex for example requires two weeks each year for simulation exercises both normal and emergency procedures. If you fail you don't fly anymore.


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## GermansRGeniuses (Jan 9, 2005)

Well yeah, but those are something like $40,000, not $40...


It's not quite everyone that can afford those...


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## plan_D (Jan 10, 2005)

You mean you can't get flaring out to land, GrG? 

And LG, it's the Raptor...damn you! Don't you think Raptor is better for originality? Eh? Eh? Eh?


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## The Jug Rules! (Jan 10, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Im interested! 8) It sorta looks like a cross between the P-39 and the P-51...



I wanted to say that!!! 

By the way, does anyone know a good website with info on aircraft armament??


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 10, 2005)

www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org gives you lots of information...


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## The Jug Rules! (Jan 10, 2005)

Ive been there, but they didn't have anything on British guns.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 10, 2005)

Not even in the British section?


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 10, 2005)

It's going to remain the Lightning II as far as I am concerned. Afterall, that was the name that Lockheed prefered.

Incidentily, Northrop was trying to push the YF-23 as the Black Widow II.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 11, 2005)

has the F-35 been given/gonna be given a proper name, not just the JSF??


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## plan_D (Jan 11, 2005)

Not that I know of. I'm sure it'll be named closer to its release date, which is in the 2012 area.


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## wmaxt (Jan 11, 2005)

Lightning Guy said:


> It's going to remain the Lightning II as far as I am concerned. Afterall, that was the name that Lockheed prefered.
> 
> Incidentily, Northrop was trying to push the YF-23 as the Black Widow II.



The pilots wanted it to be the Lightning II as well, I think it should have been to.


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 11, 2005)

No name has been given to the F-35 yet. Of course, to be honest, it shouldn't even be the F-35.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 13, 2005)

i'm glad the other one didn't win that had to be the ugliest jet EVER!!!


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 13, 2005)

When is your list arriving lanc...youve taken incessantly long with it...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 13, 2005)

still can't fill that last place, few aircraft are worthy..........


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 13, 2005)

The Boeing entry was one of the ugliest aircraft to ever fly.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 14, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> still can't fill that last place, few aircraft are worthy..........



Why not the Swordfish cos you seem to love it so much...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 14, 2005)

ok, i think after all this time i've got my list!!!!!

1) Avro 683 Lancaster
2) De Havilland DH.98 Mosquito
3) Avro 698 (i think) Vulcan
4) English Electric Lightening
5) BAe Harrier

i think it was worth the wait..............


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## evangilder (Jan 14, 2005)

That'll work. Those are nice, BTW.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 14, 2005)

it's also a nice cross section of bomber and fighter developmewnt, it works on so many levels.............


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## evangilder (Jan 14, 2005)

With a distinctly English flair, old boy!


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 14, 2005)

Damn English...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 14, 2005)

yes there may be some british bias...............


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 14, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> yes there may be some british bias...............



Ooooo! CC, there's that 'B' word again!


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 14, 2005)

Do you not like any Foriegn planes?


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## evangilder (Jan 14, 2005)

But wait, they're foreign to me.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 14, 2005)

Yes I know 

But the lanc doesnt seem to talk about anything other than British planes


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 15, 2005)

i just prefer british planes, i genuinely like them better than other planes.........


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## mosquitoman (Jan 21, 2005)

I agree, british planes were the best, or american planes with british pilots.
My Top 5:
Avro Lancaster
deHavilland Mosquito
Supermarine Spitfire
Hawker Tempest
Bristol Beaufighter (a highly underrated aircraft)


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 21, 2005)

Nah, American planes with American pilots are the best.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 21, 2005)

no, they're not...........

very nice list my man, well done................


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 21, 2005)

Youre only saying that cos theyre British...


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## mosquitoman (Jan 21, 2005)

So, most british planes were good when they were designed (the one exception to the rule is the Roc). Besides, they're all excellent aircraft


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 21, 2005)

Not as good as Stangs, Jugs or Lightnings though...


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## mosquitoman (Jan 21, 2005)

I'd take a Tempest up against any of those


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 21, 2005)

It would be slaughtered 8)


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## mosquitoman (Jan 21, 2005)

As if, the Tempest got the highest amount of Me262 kills out of any other plane, need I say any more?


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 21, 2005)

'Fraid so. These guys are tough to convince.


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## HealzDevo (Jan 21, 2005)

Also don't forget that the P-51 Mustang may have been designed by the US as a fighter but it took the British to iron out some problems including putting in a more suitable engine before its potential was realised.


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## plan_D (Jan 21, 2005)

Don't be an idiot, CC, or can't you help it? American planes with Americans pilots were the best? Especially when you come out with the Mustang as being one. Brilliant plane but the Spitfire was a better dogfighter, so how was it the best? 

And the Tempest wouldn't have been slaughtered at low-level. In actual fact, the Tempest would have slaughtered the -47, gave the 'Tang and Lightning a run for their money.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 22, 2005)

mosquitoman said:


> As if, the Tempest got the highest amount of Me262 kills out of any other plane, need I say any more?



Hmmm, didnt know that, interesting 8) I know the Tempest was a great plane, its one that I like very much, but I still feel that the 3 planes I mentioned were better...ill have to scrounge up an argument as I cant just say they were better - watch this space! 8)


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## plan_D (Jan 22, 2005)

I'd advise you enlist the help of LG, for the Lightning one. I think most of the American aircraft were brilliant. You put down the British aircraft too much, or you just don't know how to write properly. Either way, the British aircraft were some of the best in the sky. Especially the Spitfire, Mosquito and Lancaster.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 22, 2005)

I could do the lightning one now if I had the time...I know enough about it...Just need to do a little more research on the Jug and the 'stang...


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## plan_D (Jan 22, 2005)

You don't know enough on the Tempest though. I'd probably say the Lighting was the best overall aircraft, between the two. I'd rather be in a Tempest if we're going low-level. 

The Jug wouldn't stand a chance at low-level, it wasn't much of a fighter. Come on! It could take a beating but it couldn't dogfight with the best of them, although it was a P-47 that downed the first -262. 

And the Mustang well, we're talking the -51D, it was good but as I always say it's major shining point was its range. Not it's dogfight ability.


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## evangilder (Jan 22, 2005)

Actually, the P-47 was a good fighter despite it's size. It made aces of several pilots and even after they were designated to ground attack, they still racked up an impressive amount of aerial victories. I am certainly never going to declare it the best dogfighter, but it could hold it's own.


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## plan_D (Jan 22, 2005)

It was a good fighter, if you knew how to use it. However, the Tempest would have much more of a chance in the combat than the -47.


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## evangilder (Jan 22, 2005)

I'll give you that, the Tempest was more of a fighter.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 23, 2005)

i fail to see how the -38,-47 and -51 were better than british designs, in particular the tempest, the tempest was more than capable of taking out all of those planes, spits could turn inside all of the above and our pilots had considderably more battle experience and training than their american counterparts, may i suggest you open your mind a bit to british designs..................


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 23, 2005)

> the tempest was more than capable of taking out all of those planes



A match maybe, but not "More than capable". I dont really know why I mentioned te P-47, maybe because I just like it. But I still think the P-38 and P-51 would give the Tempest a damned hard time. Why you mentioned the Spitfire I dont know, Im well aware of the fact it was a better dogfighter than the above.

May *I* suggest to *you * that you occasionally close you mind about British designs and make space for other countries planes, you constantly talk about the British planes like the sun shined outta their arses and that there were no better planes than the British planes. I mean Im no fan of British planes but the Spitfire, Hurricane and Lancaster were damned good designs. Credits due where its due, and you dont give credit to the aircraft of other nations often enough.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 23, 2005)

it just so happens in this case though that in the matter in question the british planes are better............


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 23, 2005)

And what is "the matter in question" ?


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## mosquitoman (Jan 23, 2005)

In this case, I would take a Tempest but for maritime recce it would have to be a Liberator or a Catalina. Heavy daylight bombing and I would take a B-29


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 23, 2005)

how did we jump to maritime patrol and bombing


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## mosquitoman (Jan 23, 2005)

Just saying that british planes aren't the best in all situations


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 23, 2005)

Thankyou, a Brit that sees sence. Im not saying all British planes were bad, just that they arent best at everything.

I would take a B-29 for night bombing too though


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 23, 2005)

if i was to take a pre-1944 plane night bombing i'd take the lanc

got you there...............


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## mosquitoman (Jan 23, 2005)

I agree, 1944 or earlier i'd take the Lanc, '45 I would take the Lincoln, not the B-29 for night bombing, if just because us Brits knew how to bomb at night


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 23, 2005)

yes i too have no problem with using the licoln..................


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 23, 2005)

Id take a Fairey Battle...no-one will shoot me down..


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## HealzDevo (Jan 23, 2005)

Hello. CC were you just putting your foot into your mouth. Fairey Battles were sent over to France and almost a 100% of the Fairey Battles were lost in the Battle for France at the beginning of WW2. Therefore if they could be beaten at the very beginning of the war by German technology, then by the very end of WW2 they would have become aerial coffins, if not by 1941-42 when the Allies started putting really heavy armament into some of their bombers. One shot from one of those modified bombers would be more than sufficent to take out a Fairey Battle. It would be overkill.


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 23, 2005)

I think he was joking.  ... I think.


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## Cougar (Jan 23, 2005)

My favorites would have to be. Fighters-51, spitfires. Heavy bombers:B-29s, B-17s, medium bombers: A-26 invader. I have been in 2 of the 18 remaining lancasters, b-17 sentimental journey, a seafire, several A-26's a seafury, and three Harvards. have seen up close, a hurricane, 109,one of the few flyable remaining Blemhiems ,P-47, Bearcat, zero, xp-51. And a few spitfires. Out of all those my fav is the B-17


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## Crazy (Jan 23, 2005)

Ahh yes another B-17 man 8) 

I know this argument is kinda dead, but it still warms my heart to see someone with a good taste in bomber


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## Cougar (Jan 23, 2005)

just a seafire, seen spits


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## Cougar (Jan 23, 2005)

Crazy said:


> Ahh yes another B-17 man 8)



I know this argument is kinda dead, but it still warms my heart to see someone with a good taste in bomber 

LoL, yea


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 23, 2005)

Great B-17 pic! 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 24, 2005)

Great B-17 shot Cougar! 8)


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## mosquitoman (Jan 24, 2005)

CC the only reason you wouldn't get shot down in a Fairey Battle is that everyone in a 5 mile radius would be laughing at the uselessness of the pile of junk you were sitting in


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 24, 2005)

And then, he'd move in for the kill!


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## plan_D (Jan 24, 2005)

Sounds like a good plan to me.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 24, 2005)

Yep, due to the amazing speed and agility of the Battle I could out climb, dive, turn and roll the Fw-190, take him out with a couple of shots from my starboard .303, then attack the bombers. If I missed them and overshot by some strange reason then my rear gunner would take them out with his .303...yes the Battle was an amazing plane


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## Nonskimmer (Jan 24, 2005)

And you need to increase your medication.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 24, 2005)

and the B-17 was useless wht compared to the B-17..........


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 24, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> And you need to increase your medication.



I know, but the doctor said any more and it could be enough to kill me within a week


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## DaveB.inVa (Jan 24, 2005)

What kinda radar suite did the Lincoln have? All Ive seen mentioned was the H2S but was wondering if theyre was more.

Id still take a B-29 for night bombing over the Lancaster or Lincoln if all 3 were available.


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## trackend (Jan 24, 2005)

ok lads back to the plot 
SE5A
Hawker hart
Spitfire
Dakota
Boeing 707


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## evangilder (Jan 24, 2005)

Interesting list, Trackend. Welcome, BTW. Where is Canvey Island?


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## Gemhorse (Jan 24, 2005)

Ohhh, abit late into this forum, my love is for most WWII aircraft....but if I was to choose 5.......

Absolutely, totally.....DH98 Mosquito
'' '' .....DH103 Hornet
also .....P-40's... [Kiwis killed 99 Japs with 'em...]
and also .....F4U's ... [and killed some more with these...]
and lastly .....A4K Skyhawks,... the best l'il jet fighter ever........


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## mosquitoman (Jan 24, 2005)

Good choice there Gemhorse, Wouldn't want to be up against any of those planes


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## Gemhorse (Jan 24, 2005)

Thanks mosquitoman, it's a real shame that there's no Hornets left today, and they would've been awesome had they got them into WWII before it was over....
We have a chap that's making new Mosquitos down here in NZ, I don't know if you've heard about it....There is an update on it at www.mossie.org , the main Mosquito website....

My choice of aircraft is based on my obsession with the Mosquito Hornet, [as all these guys know about !!!], and then my patriotic choices, but there's others like the Lancaster etc. that I'd love to add too.....


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 24, 2005)

The A-4 was an awesome little jet, no doubt about it.


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## Cougar (Jan 24, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> and the B-17 was useless wht compared to the B-17..........
> 
> Dont judge it until youve been in one


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## evangilder (Jan 24, 2005)

Agreed, LG. I always liked the look of the A-4.


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## plan_D (Jan 24, 2005)

Yes, the A-4 was good. The FAA loved shooting them down too.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 25, 2005)

Cougar said:


> the lancaster kicks ass said:
> 
> 
> > and the B-17 was useless wht compared to the B-17..........
> ...



Too right! I enjoyed "Memphis Belle" a damn sight more than I enjoyed "The Dambusters" 8)


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 25, 2005)

DaveB.inVa said:


> What kinda radar suite did the Lincoln have? All Ive seen mentioned was the H2S but was wondering if theyre was more.
> 
> Id still take a B-29 for night bombing over the Lancaster or Lincoln if all 3 were available.



the argument in question stems from american crews in american planes compared to british crew in british planes, we (the british) knew how to bomb at night, we'd been doing it for years, and we weren't bad at it, the americans on the other had bombed mostly by day so had no experience at night so in the instance of night bombing a british crew in a british plane would be the better choise............


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 25, 2005)

The B-29 makes so much more sense. Faster, better ceiling, better range, could carry more than the Lancaster further, stronger, better armoured. Name me one area in which the Lancaster was superior to the B-29...


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## mosquitoman (Jan 25, 2005)

The names Tallboy and Grand Slam come to mind, also would you do the dambusters raid in B-29s?


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 25, 2005)

Grandslams were fitted to B-29's after the war  Carrying a tallboy would be nothing, but because it was an American plane I dont think they would be using British bombs


----------



## wmaxt (Jan 25, 2005)

mosquitoman said:


> The names Tallboy and Grand Slam come to mind, also would you do the dambusters raid in B-29s?



The Abomb comes to mind (though the Lanc could probably be fitted up for one - same difference) as for the dam busters why not? The B-29 flew fine on the deck and the extra speed may have helped considering the short range and light bomb load (for a B-29). My dad (as a crew cheif)flew them low on occasion though it was rare and frowned on (Safety issue) and only done for short distances, a lark so to speak, it could be done easily.

We have B-52s with 70,000lb bomb loads doing "nap of the earth" flying, why not a B-29?


----------



## MikeMan (Jan 25, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> > Apache (Dont know hich one, but what ever one comes with 72 Hellfire missiles )
> 
> 
> 
> no one Apache model comes with 72 helfire missiles, the aircraft can be fitted with 148 (i think, not to sure) unguided rockets, 16 helfire or a combination of both and 4 sidewinders....................



Max load of a AH-64 is:

Main Winglets:
76 Hydras (4 x 19 round pods)
16 Hellfires (4 x 4 round groups)
Mix of above.

Wingtips:
Single ARM-122 Sidearm
or
FIM-92 Stinger AAM Twinpack.

+ 

1 x M-230 30mm Cannon (~1200 rounds IIRC)


----------



## MikeMan (Jan 25, 2005)

OK top 5 Hmmmmm:

1. DH.98 Mosquito
2. F-16 Falcon (Viper)
3. F-14 (Tomcat)
4. MH-53M Pave Low IV
5. XB-70 Valkrie


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## DaveB.inVa (Jan 25, 2005)

The B-29B also had the AN/APQ-7 Eagle radar. It was a wing shaped unit that was slung between the bomb bays where the AN/APQ-13 was on most other B-29's. The AN/APQ-7 was a better radar than was the H2S or H2X (thats basically what the AN/APQ-13 was anyway). All I'd read said the Lincoln had an H2S. Its hard to find stuff on it anyway, I wish theyre was as much info about it as you can find about the Lancaster! I did read about a version of the Lincoln that had 2 20mm cannon in the mid upper turret, thats pretty cool!

British or American... I think it wouldnt hurt to have a better radar!! Even then Id still go with the B-29.


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 25, 2005)

The discusion about the Lanc dropping a nuke has already run. Post war, the Lincoln wasn't considered a very useful bomber because it would most likely be unable to escape the blasty of a nuke. The Lanc wouldn't have been any better.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 26, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> The B-29 makes so much more sense. Faster, better ceiling, better range, could carry more than the Lancaster further, stronger, better armoured. Name me one area in which the Lancaster was superior to the B-29...



but the american crews would have a clue what they were doing at night!!!! we on the other hand did, yes the B-29 was a better bomber than the lanc, but not if the crue doesn't know what it's doing, and why do you assume i'm thinking of using the lancaster?? why can't i use a lincoln??

and about the B-29 on the dams raid, it was to big and whilst i can't say this for sure as i don't know, i doubt it was manouverable enough, the B-29's speed would have been of no advantage as the raid had to be done at a set speed.....................


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## evangilder (Jan 26, 2005)

Wait a minute Lanc, the B-29s did do night bombing of Japan for the Tokyo firebombing raids. They knew how to bomb at night.


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 26, 2005)

And technologically they were better equipped with a more advanced radar set than any Lanc. Still, I suppose we should be impressed you finally acknowledged that the Lanc wasn't the best bomber in the war.


----------



## cheddar cheese (Jan 26, 2005)

> the B-29's speed would have been of no advantage as the raid had to be done at a set speed.....................



For the escape and the flight over there it would...


----------



## Gemhorse (Jan 26, 2005)

Yeah, apparently they were the first jet fighter capable of delivering a nuclear strike, but their design was especially unique, a real treatise in avionic economy...their original cost per aircraft was around $800,000....

Gemhorse


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## trackend (Jan 26, 2005)

Hi Evanglider 
Canvey Island is near the mouth of the Thames North side of the river
3 X 4 miles, population 40,000 ,linked to the main land by two bridges and very crowded.
Four miles further towards the mouth lies one part of the D-day Mulberry harbour it ran aground whilst being towed over. also on the other side of the river lies the wreak of the Montgomery a liberty ship that broke her back whilst carrying 3,000 tons of ammo The navy divers examine her every year just to check on the stability of her cargo as removal of it is believed to be more of a hazard than to leave it in place


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## evangilder (Jan 26, 2005)

Okay, I think I know where that is now. I hadn't heard of it before, so I was curious. I lived in the dazzling urban area of East Anglia for 3 years.  (tongue in cheek, nothing out there but farms and airplane patches)


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## Gemhorse (Jan 26, 2005)

CC, that's not fair....Memphis Belle was in colour, The Dambusters B/W...

The Lincoln, I've since read, WAS capable of a nuclear strike, but it wasn't really in it's Flight Agenda....

The Lancaster was the true original and successful '' Nightbomber '', and it's contribution at that time of the conflict was huge....They also greatly developed night-bombing by the use of radar, and as an aircraft, were much loved by all it's crews....

The B-17 broke in the '' Daylight '' bombing, along with the B-24, and I believe their accuracy improved with the Norden bombsight....The B-17 was a better bombing-platform, the B-24 had greater range and duties, but both aircraft were loved by their crews....

All these aircraft were able to sustain enormous damage, and more often than enough, make it back, a credit to their designers, groundcrews and flight crews....

The B-29, despite it's initial teething-troubles, was the Best Bomber of the War, despite being active only in the Far East/ Asia, and combined ALL the accumulated tactics of Battles in the ETO/MTO, and it's firebomb raids paralleled raids like Hamburg....they tried hard to conventionally-bomb Japan into submission, but eventually had to resort to the A-bombs....I recall reading somewhere that they had 20mm's in their rear turret.....

The presence of just one B-29 in England, sent the Germans into a tizz, thinking that if all these other Allied bombers weren't enough....whoa !!!

It's a shame 3 crashed-landed in Russia, because their copying the design really upset the post-war balance of power.....but we're all still here folks, so maybe it was destiny....

My favourite is always the Lancaster, but I love the B-24 too....they were built in the most numbers, but I just love the Consolidated Logo in the steering wheel, quite a novel touch.....


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## Adolf Galland (Jan 26, 2005)

"The B-17 was a better bombing-platform, the B-24 had greater range and duties, but both aircraft were loved by their crews.... "
that's not true, most of the crew that had flown on both plane said they love the b-17


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## Adolf Galland (Jan 26, 2005)

my 5 favorite:
1. Lockheed F-22A (stealth Air-Air, super-cruise, in short, everything)
2. Messerschmitts Me-262 (superb armament, good 4 tank busting, can outrun everything the allies had sent to intercept them)
3. Boeing B-29 (in short, best bomber of the entire World war 2)
4. Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird (highest flying AND fastest aircraft on the planet)
5. Lockheed F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (Marine Version) (SToVL!!, half-stealth, can act as a fighter as well)


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## Gemhorse (Jan 26, 2005)

I can't picture the Me-262 being a tank-buster somehow.....

Gemhorse


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## Adolf Galland (Jan 26, 2005)

but it got four 30MMs, even the tempest(which is a tank busting aircraft) only got four 20MMs


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 26, 2005)

I think the thing is that the speed of the Me-262 wasn't a real advantage to tank busting.


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## lesofprimus (Jan 26, 2005)

And the Tempest wasnt the tank buster, that was the Tiffy, or Typhoon..... and its rockets were what really defined that plane....


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## plan_D (Jan 27, 2005)

They did use Me-262A-2as against Soviet armour, I do believe. I think they also used R4/Ms for the job, while they were at it. 

The Blackbird isn't the fastest plane on the planet, the X-15 is.


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## evangilder (Jan 27, 2005)

The blackbird's absolute top speed remains classified, so it is difficult to really say. Let's just say that the blackbird is capable of dizzying speeds.


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## plan_D (Jan 27, 2005)

The X-15 does something like Mach 6, I doubt the Blackbird can hit that. I've seen Mach 3.2 for the Blackbird, I imagine it will go faster but I highly doubt Mach 6.


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## evangilder (Jan 27, 2005)

What is known and public knowledge is that NASA uses the SR-71 as a chase plane for shuttle landings. There have been open radio channels used where the shuttle reported it's current air speed and there is one particular event where the shuttle pilot did not unkey his mike before saying "There goes the blackbird". I don't remember the exact speed, but I remember my buddy looking over at me with his eyebrows raised and said "oops, he wasn't supposed to say that". We were at Edwards for a shuttle recovery at the time. I think you would be surprised at how fast that thing can go. 

You should watch it on a radar screen sometime, it is bloody amazing! Depending on the resolution of the screen (milage range) it can appear from one side of the screen to the next, or only show up once!


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## plan_D (Jan 27, 2005)

A rocket needs to go Mach 8 to get out of the atmosphere. The X-15 is highly recognised as the fastest plane on the planet at Mach 6. I reckon, at best, the SR-71 goes around Mach 4. 
It certainly is impressive, but a shuttle is slowing down as it hits the ground. I reckon they land at around Mach 2 - 3. A controlled crash, a bit like a Lightning landing.


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## evangilder (Jan 27, 2005)

But when the SR is on chase for a shuttle, it is considerably higher than just prior to landing. The service ceiling for the blackbird is 85,000 feet plus. I will leave it at that.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 27, 2005)

The X-15 went over 200,000ft...I think it was so high it was techinically out of the earths atmosphere.


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## plan_D (Jan 27, 2005)

Skimming the earths atmosphere, it never actually went out. That would be impossible, at only Mach 6.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 27, 2005)

I think it actually reacher Mach 7 on one occasion, flying at 215,000ft. Not sure though, ill have to check it...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 27, 2005)

SR-71 isn't the fastest plane opn the earth, the X-15 is only the fastest MANNED craft, nasa has launched unmanned craft at over mach 10, and the SR-71 holds the world speed and altitude record at something like mach 3.31 and 80,000+ft, to qualify for this record the craft must be powered by a conventional jet engine and must be able to take off and land under it's own power, which the X-15 could not, but they're only a couple of the things needed to qualify................


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 27, 2005)

And wasn't the X-15 powered by a rocket and not a jet?


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 27, 2005)

Yep. It was still faster and flew higher than the Blackbird though.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 27, 2005)

yes but it does not hold the officail world speed record because it couldn't take off and land under it's own power and wasn't powered by a conventional jet engine.............


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 27, 2005)

I know. What do you mean land under its own power? How else is it gonna land


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 27, 2005)

it's just the term used................


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## DaveB.inVa (Jan 27, 2005)

plan_D said:


> It certainly is impressive, but a shuttle is slowing down as it hits the ground. I reckon they land at around Mach 2 - 3. A controlled crash, a bit like a Lightning landing.



The shuttle lands at around 220~230 mph.


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## Adolf Galland (Jan 27, 2005)

the x-15 may be faster, but it kills its pliots, and the fact that a rocket powered plane is no compareable to a jet powered


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## Cougar (Jan 27, 2005)

but the american crews would have a clue what they were doing at night!!!! we on the other hand did
hmmm.......i guess thats why the americans had all the night fighters like the P-61 and a-26's and modified hellcats, and had success with them, cuz they didnt know wut they were doing.


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## plan_D (Jan 28, 2005)

The US had all the Night-Fighters? I see, so the Mosquito, Beaufighter, Defiant weren't Night-fighters at all.


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## koivis (Jan 28, 2005)

My favourites:

1. Focke-Wulf Fw 190A
good firepower and excellent looks

2. Douglas A-26 Invader
same as previous, 3-war veteran

3. Tupolev Tu-95 Bear 
15000 hp / engine, that's something. And they are still in active duty (since 1955)  

4. Messerscmitt Me 410
Good heavy fighter and one of the most beautiful twin-engined planes of all time.

5. Messerschmitt Bf 109
My grandfather flew these in the Continuation War (1941-1944).

I also like all 2/4-engine bombers and transports. All big planes sort of fascinate me.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 28, 2005)

> I see, so the Mosquito, Beaufighter, Defiant weren't Night-fighters at all



The Defiant was more of a night-annoyer 

Good choices Koivis and welcome to the site...

I particularly agree with the Me-410. One of my favourites too. I read that it had the ability to be fitted with every gun in the Luftwaffes arsenal  Pretty damned good gun platform...

I like twin engined planes too 8)


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 28, 2005)

The 410 was very versatile in regards to its armament, but it was not especially effect against other fighters. It's rear-firing 13mm MG131s did cause a nasty shock to more than a few Allied pilots however.


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 29, 2005)

Heres a great shot I found a while back...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 29, 2005)

nice shot, i never realised the radio room was so far back though.........


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 29, 2005)

Ya-huh, you can see it on this rather good painting...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 29, 2005)

that looks computer generated...........


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 29, 2005)

I know, it is...I goofed...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 29, 2005)

nose pannel looks bit to flat..............


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 29, 2005)

You see I bet that guy took graphic design...


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 29, 2005)

Well either way it proves the point. The radio room was immediately behind the bomb bay and basically at the trailing edge of the wing.


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## Napier Sabre (Jan 29, 2005)

1. Hawker Hurricane Mk I - Just something about it, can't put my finger on it...

2. Hawker Typhoon - Yep, I know another Hawker. Think it's just the sheer raw power involved, both in weapons and propulsion.

3. CAC Boomerang CA-13 - Love the design

4. BAC English Electric Lightning - My favourite ever aircraft, so sleek.

5. De Haviland Mosquito - Esp the Mk VI.


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## Viper (Jan 29, 2005)

My favorites would be
modern- F-14 Tomcat
ww2- B-17, B-29, P-51h mustang, A-26 invader, Spitfire mk5.


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## Viper (Jan 29, 2005)

Lightning Guy said:


> Well either way it proves the point. The radio room was immediately behind the bomb bay and basically at the trailing edge of the wing.


 they say if there was going to be a wheel up landing the crew would all go to the radio room because it was the most secure place in the plane between the two bulkheads


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 30, 2005)

Nice list Napier, and welcome to the site 8)



> 3. CAC Boomerang CA-13 - Love the design



Thats an interesting choice, no-one ever talks about it on here. Ill try and get a discussion going


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## Napier Sabre (Jan 30, 2005)

Cheers, see if I can find a decent piccy.


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 30, 2005)

The security of the radio room was part of it. It was in the center of the aircraft and located between two sturdy bulkheads. Of course, there is also the fact that there was nowhere forward of this point with enough room to group 8 men together. The only possible exception would be the nose and you certainly don't want to be THERE during a belly landing!


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 30, 2005)

Napier Sabre said:


> 1. Hawker Hurricane Mk I - Just something about it, can't put my finger on it...
> 
> 2. Hawker Typhoon - Yep, I know another Hawker. Think it's just the sheer raw power involved, both in weapons and propulsion.
> 
> ...



very very nice list.............

and i don't say that to many people..................


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 30, 2005)

Youre only saying that because 80% of the planes are British...


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## Napier Sabre (Jan 30, 2005)

the lancaster kicks ass said:


> Napier Sabre said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Hawker Hurricane Mk I - Just something about it, can't put my finger on it...
> ...



Cheers


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 30, 2005)

no i just love the aircraft he's listed, well 80% of them anyway.............


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 30, 2005)

Yeah the British ones 

My favourite of those is most probably the Boomerang


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 30, 2005)

there's always one.............


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## cheddar cheese (Jan 30, 2005)

Well there has to be


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## Lightning Guy (Jan 30, 2005)

If he had placed the Lancaster in there instead of the Boomerang Lanc would have been in love . . .


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## Napier Sabre (Jan 30, 2005)

Lucky I didn't then int it.  

Had to have a token non-British plane in there.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Jan 31, 2005)

why?? i don't.............

although i was slightly dissapointed at the lack of lancaster in your list.........


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## Napier Sabre (Jan 31, 2005)

Joking, wasn't token.

Lanc came close, but have to say of the big bombers, the halifax was my favourite. Having said that though, I'm not a big bomber person really.


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## plan_D (Feb 1, 2005)

You're not a Big Bomber person? Is that you're a small bomber person, or you don't go around bombing people? 

Oh, that's right...I went there...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 1, 2005)

alas there are few "bomber people" on the site, i considder myself one of them, but there's not many...........


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## Lightning Guy (Feb 1, 2005)

I just don't think a bomber (at least not a heavy) could be nearly as much fun to fly as a fighter or attack bomber.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 1, 2005)

well i'd much rather fly an EE lightening to the lanc but the lanc's still my favourite aircraft.............


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## mosquitoman (Feb 1, 2005)

I'm a bomber and coastal command person, but the plane I'd want to fly is a Tempest


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## Napier Sabre (Feb 1, 2005)

Tempests look great too, have to say I like Hawker aircraft (not that that wasn't obvious). What I mean by not a big bomber person is that I do quite like a number of two-engined bombers, but I don't find four-engined aircraft as attractive to the eye.


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## DaveB.inVa (Feb 1, 2005)

I'm a bomber person and I'd rather be in one over most fighters any day.


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## Lightning Guy (Feb 1, 2005)

IMO the Tempest didn't become a great looking aircraft until it was fitted with a radial engine. I never liked the big chin radiator on it and the Typhoon.


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## mosquitoman (Feb 1, 2005)

The chin radiator looked good IMO


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## Lightning Guy (Feb 1, 2005)

I never liked it. It just made an otherwise smooth design look bulky.


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## Napier Sabre (Feb 2, 2005)

Have to say I liked it, was part of the whole massive power image.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 2, 2005)

i like the chin radiator................

and it's nice to have annother bomber person around, they're far superior to fighters.............


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 4, 2005)

And Fighter-Bombers such as P-38's/Mossies/Me-410's/Fw-190A/F's are better still  I much prefer fighters to bombers however...you cant do much with a bomber....But I like a wide range of aicraft. My favourite 3 planes have different numbers of engines, but big, heavy fighters are more my thing.


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## Viper (Feb 4, 2005)

Bigger is better, planes like corsairs, thunderbolts,mustangs,hellcats, seafurys are my type of fighters. Although small i like spitfires alot too.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 5, 2005)

i don't really think the P-51 can be considdered on the same scale as those others 

and you can do lots of things with a bomber................


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 5, 2005)

You can do more with a fighter-bomber...

I also like the small attack bombers, Like the B-25, B-26 and the A-20...


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 5, 2005)

you see, everyone likes bombers!!


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 5, 2005)

Ah by Bombers do you men everytype of bomber, like Fighter-Bombers, Attack Bombers, Torpedo Bombers, Dive Bombers, Maritime Patrol Bombers, Light Bombers, Medium Bombers and Heavy Bombers?  If so, try and be a bit more specific!


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## mosquitoman (Feb 5, 2005)

The Mosquito and the Beaufighter are my top 2, the Mossie looks sleek and deadly, the beau just looks deadly


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 5, 2005)

and beefy.......... 

(in light of my dietist remark i would like to offer a vegitarian alternative, the beaufighter looks like a carrot).................


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 5, 2005)

Being a nightfighter thats quite relevant, as carrots make you see in the dark.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 5, 2005)

actually that's a myth...........


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 5, 2005)

You saying my Mum and Dad are liers?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 5, 2005)

that or in possestion of false carrot facts..........


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 5, 2005)

mosquitoman said:


> The Mosquito and the Beaufighter are my top 2, the Mossie looks sleek and deadly, the beau just looks deadly



The Komet also looked deadly, but in a different form


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 5, 2005)

yes, when you're sitting in the pilot's seat...........


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 5, 2005)

Or standing by the refuelling hose...


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## wmaxt (Feb 5, 2005)

One of my favorites will always be the SR-71! So fast and So high and it's the ONLY US Air Force aircraft never to have injured or killed any crewmen in it's 40 year operational lifetime in the Air Force. Also no one has ever shot one down by any means.


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## trackend (Feb 6, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Being a nightfighter thats quite relevant, as carrots make you see in the dark.



A friend of mine who retired from the CAA a few years ago met 
Cats Eyes Cunningham on a couple of occasions and said he found him a really nice fella. although it obviously was Radar that gave him his reputation not carrots.


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 6, 2005)

I can just imagine it now

"Listen lads, we're a bit short on resources at the moment so we've done away with your radar and put 2 sacks of carrots in its place"


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## Nonskimmer (Feb 6, 2005)

That sounds very much like the kind of solution that would occur in the present day air force of a certain country, that shall remain nameless. :-"





Hint: I live there.


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 6, 2005)

Taiwan?


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## Nonskimmer (Feb 6, 2005)

Close.


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 6, 2005)




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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 6, 2005)

Tiwan's far more advanced than the place he's on about.............


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 6, 2005)

Is he on about Britain then?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 6, 2005)

dude we have some of the most advanced equiptment in the world.........


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 6, 2005)

Ever seen the mining regions of Yorkshire?

I rest my case


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## plan_D (Feb 6, 2005)

Have YOU ever seen Yorkshire?


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 6, 2005)

No 

Im stereotyping 

(And also casting my mind back to a previous episode of Top Gear)


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## mosquitoman (Feb 6, 2005)

Most advanced equipment in the world. An infantry rifle that can't be used left-handed, helicopters that can't fly in the rain and aircraft carriers that are smaller than the spanish aircraft carriers. Very advanced I'd say


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## plan_D (Feb 6, 2005)

SA-80s are crap, however come 2006 Britain will be equipped with H&K G36s. 

Which Helicopters are these? The Chinooks? That's not a knock on the technology, that's a knock on the governments tight fist. 

The aircraft carriers don't need to be big, we have HARRIERS.  

Well, CC, I'd advise you to go to Yorkshire it may come as a surprise that we're not all stupid and toothless as Clarkson tries to portray. Although, I do give him credit that most of Doncaster is stupid and toothless...he's from Doncaster as well..


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 6, 2005)

Yeah, his whole families from Doncaster  Did you what the family tree program he was in?


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## plan_D (Feb 6, 2005)

No I didn't. I just know he's from Tickhill, a village a few miles from mine.


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 6, 2005)

To be honest id love to go to Yorkshire, the scenery looks great.


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## plan_D (Feb 6, 2005)

Halifax is probably the best place. South Yorkshire are all heroin addicts and stupid ex-miners and the majority of West Yorkshire is full of illegals.


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## mosquitoman (Feb 6, 2005)

For scenery AND nightlife, you need to come to Sheffield, you're either walking up or down and there's loads of clubs including the biggest rock club in Britain


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## Napier Sabre (Feb 6, 2005)

Nah, Leeds anyday.


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 6, 2005)

Nah, erm, Birmingham anyday! 

MM, I dont think id like Sheffield. Im not a social man.  You may have noticed that, as there is a link in there somewhere to my number of posts


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## GermansRGeniuses (Feb 6, 2005)

Nah, Torrance, homeboy... 



Kidding, L.A. is much more enjoyable for tourists.


...but they don't have the beach, now do they?


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 6, 2005)

I wastrying to say a British town  Heck, if its on a worldwide scale you want, then there is NO PLACE like MONACO


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## GermansRGeniuses (Feb 6, 2005)

Doubtful...


Though I'd love to visit there...


I don't know if it's an Italian or French territory, first of all! 


Secondly, Salvador is the sh*t... 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 6, 2005)

I think its in French territory. Its a great place GrG, youd love it. The amount of nice cars there is amazing.


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## plan_D (Feb 6, 2005)

Go to Leeds if you want to get mugged CC. And Sheffield is shit! I'll give it credit for the clubs, it does have good clubs but other than that..SHITE.


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## mosquitoman (Feb 7, 2005)

The pubs are great aswell, in my hall bar it's £1.60 a pint of Carlsberg. Can't go wrong with that


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 7, 2005)

How much is J2O?


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## mosquitoman (Feb 7, 2005)

Why drink soft drinks in a pub?


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 7, 2005)

Cos I dont really like alcohol


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## Soren (Feb 7, 2005)

My favorite 5 WWII Era Fighter:

1)Messerschmidt 109.
2)Mitsubishi A6M2 model 21 'Reisen'. 
3)Spitfire MkI-and onwards. 
4)F4U Corsair.
5)P-51D Mustang.

My favorite 5 Modern aircraft:

1)F-22 Raptor.
2)F-35 joint strike fighter.
3)F-14 Tomcat.
4)MIG-29 Fulcrum.
5)F-18 Hornet.


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## mosquitoman (Feb 7, 2005)

Good list, hows about your favourite bombers aswell?


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 7, 2005)

he strikes me as more as a fighter person.............

as has been said there aint many bomber lovers on the site..............


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## Erich (Feb 7, 2005)

oh what the heck................I dig this a/c. Recon/stealth Ju 290


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## the lancaster kicks ass (Feb 7, 2005)

nice pic, never seen her from that angle before............


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## Soren (Feb 7, 2005)

mosquitoman said:


> Good list, hows about your favourite bombers aswell?




Well my 2 favorite WWII bombers have deffidently got to be the Lancaster and the B-17 Flying fortress ! 8)

But mostly yes i am a Fighter person 8)


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## mosquitoman (Feb 7, 2005)

So that's one good choice (Lanc) and one bad choice (B-17)


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## Soren (Feb 7, 2005)

mosquitoman said:


> So that's one good choice (Lanc) and one bad choice (B-17)



Why the B-17 ? it had all its angles covered


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 7, 2005)

The B-17 was a great plane.

Nice list BTW Soren, and I dont believe youve had a proper welcome, so....Welcome!


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## mosquitoman (Feb 7, 2005)

I was just thinking of the almost useless bombload, the B-24 was better IMO


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## Soren (Feb 7, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> The B-17 was a great plane.
> 
> Nice list BTW Soren, and I dont believe youve had a proper welcome, so....Welcome!



Thank you !


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 7, 2005)

Yeah the Normal payload wasnt too special. I dont think it was a "bad" plane though. The B-24 was probably better, yes.


Anyway, heres one of my favourite planes


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## Soren (Feb 7, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Anyway, heres one of my favourite planes



I always thought that plane had some smooth lines ! 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 7, 2005)

Yeah it does! 8) HAs some great performance stats too. It could also be fittd with just about EVERY GUN in the Luftwaffes arsenal.


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## Soren (Feb 7, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Yeah it does! 8) HAs some great performance stats too. It could also be fittd with just about EVERY GUN in the Luftwaffes arsenal.



A great nightfighter ! 8)


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## cheddar cheese (Feb 7, 2005)

Yep! I posted a great shot of one breaking off from the wing of a B-17 earlier in the thread, if you go back a couple of pages youll see it 8)


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## Soren (Feb 7, 2005)

cheddar cheese said:


> Yep! I posted a great shot of one breaking off from the wing of a B-17 earlier in the thread, if you go back a couple of pages youll see it 8)



Ok, thanks i will do that then.


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