# Who is the most iconic RAF figure of World War Two?



## Park82 (Nov 5, 2009)

Here at the RAF Benevolent Fund (RAFBF) we are holding a poll to find the most iconic RAF figure of World War Two. To vote please visit:

90 faces of the RAF Benevolent Fund 

The poll is featured on our special 90th anniversary website, “90 Faces of the RAFBF”, which features 90 stories about our history, fundraisers and supporters.
If you visit you can listen to Winston Churchill's famous 1951 radio appeal on behalf of the RAFBF, watch videos of beneficiaries and serving RAF personnel describe how we help, and learn about the enormous support we enjoy among the RAF family.


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## timshatz (Nov 5, 2009)

Tough call. 

Most adored after all these years: Dowding
Most villified after all these years: Harris
Overated (IMHO): Leigh Mallory
Underappreciated: Park
Most representative of the Spirit of RAF: Bader, Gibson


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## Civettone (Nov 5, 2009)

Has to be Dowding ...


Kris


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## seesul (Nov 5, 2009)

Doug Bader for me.


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## tomo pauk (Nov 5, 2009)

Civettone said:


> Has to be Dowding ...
> 
> 
> Kris


Agree.


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## gumbyk (Nov 5, 2009)

Gotta be Park for me.
Media-Newswire.com - Press Release Distribution - PR Agency


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## vikingBerserker (Nov 5, 2009)

Bader


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## Gnomey (Nov 5, 2009)

Bader is the one that comes to mind to me. Although I would rate Dowding higher.


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## Colin1 (Nov 5, 2009)

Gnomey said:


> Bader is the one that comes to mind to me. Although I would rate Dowding higher


Interesting point
'rated' is the answer you'd expect from an historian or enthusiast, 'iconic' is the answer you'd expect from the average person in the street; for me too it would be 

Dowding - rated 
Bader - iconic

Classic example of iconic would be most women hanging out their washing in 1940 and seeing a Spitfire flash past overhead... only it wasn't a Spitfire, it was a Hurricane.


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## JP Vieira (Nov 5, 2009)

Bader also


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## Gnomey (Nov 5, 2009)

Colin1 said:


> Interesting point
> 'rated' is the answer you'd expect from an historian or enthusiast, 'iconic' is the answer you'd expect from the average person in the street; for me too it would be
> 
> Dowding - rated
> ...



It is partly poor choice of words on my part. I see both as being iconic but for different reasons, in the grand scheme of things I see Dowding being seen as more of an icon than Bader. It's just that Bader is more well known and therefore is seen as more iconic, however I think a combination of the two would be a more accurate representation.


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## Civettone (Nov 6, 2009)

Don't know if Bader is really better known than Dowding. 

Another pilot to mention was Guy Gibson, Flight Leader for the Dambusters Raid.

Kris


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## Amsel (Nov 6, 2009)

Dowding in my mind, but I'm American so I may not have the same pov.


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## Watanbe (Nov 16, 2009)

Douglas Bader for mine


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## herman1rg (Nov 16, 2009)

I think Dowding, if he had got the overall strategy of The Battle of Britain wrong chances are the German army would have invaded


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## stona (Nov 16, 2009)

Bader was a shameless self publicist who carefully cultivated his image post war. Then there was the film (reach for the sky).This has made him iconic post war, a war during which he spent most of his time as a POW. 9th August 1941 was his last combat mission. He also managed to lead the post war victory fly past over London ahead of (IMHO) men more deserving. He may be remembered,rightly, with respect but rarely with affection.
Dowding was a modest ,very reserved man whose work reorganising Britain's air defence immiediately pre-war and whose leadership during the war probably saved this island from defeat and being forced into coming to some kind of terms with nazi Germany.
Thankfully it is a statue of Dowding that stands on The Strand. The last line of the inscription says it all

"To him, the people of Britain and of the Free World owe largely the way of life and the liberties they enjoy today." 

Guess who gets my vote!

Steve


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## magnu (Nov 16, 2009)

Of the top brass the team of Dowding and Park 
Of the pilots Sailor Malan


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## tomo pauk (Nov 16, 2009)

Without Bader, BoB would be decided as it historically was.

Without Dowding, I strongly doubt it would be so.


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## Colin1 (Nov 16, 2009)

I'd put Malan ahead of Bader too
He re-wrote the rules for RAF fighter engagement and undoubtedly saved scores of lives dispensing with the rigid, pre-war RAF formations and methods of attack.

Bader was an ebullient leader, he turned 242 Sqn from a disenchanted, demoralised unit into a hard-hitting squadron. His drive and agression were key leadership qualities but I don't think he was any better than many other unit commanders during the Battle. With no implied cynicism whatsoever, it was the 'Bader story' that earmarked him for greatness rather than any inherent superiority over his peers.

Malan was influential at a tactical level, Dowding more so at a strategic level. Bader was an icon who lifted the morale of the British public.


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## stona (Nov 16, 2009)

tomo pauk said:


> Without Bader, BoB would be decided as it historically was.
> 
> Without Dowding, I strongly doubt it would be so.



My point exactly.
We were blessed, at that time, with many remarkable airmen. Bader was one of them but does not stand out in such exalted company.
I went to a school that supplied the RAF with Douglas Bader, Guy Gibson,Adrian Warburton and Arthur Banks amongst others. They named the sports centre after,you've guessed, Bader. I was not happy about that!


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## stona (Nov 16, 2009)

Someone mentioned Keith Park,read this about the man. It is a riposte to an idiotic article published in The Independent, a newspaper that should know better.

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | Head and shoulders above the rest

We were lucky to have men like him.

Steve


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## tomo pauk (Nov 17, 2009)

I've just read about Sailor Malan at Wikipedia.
Alone for his fight against racism in South Africa he should be remembered well by humanity.


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## seesul (Nov 17, 2009)

tomo pauk said:


> Without Bader, BoB would be decided as it historically was.
> 
> Without Dowding, I strongly doubt it would be so.



That´s absolutely true, but what is this thread about...most important or most iconic?


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## tomo pauk (Nov 17, 2009)

Dowding IS the most iconic RAF figure of WW2 in my eyes


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## seesul (Nov 17, 2009)

O.K., Roger


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## Colin1 (Nov 17, 2009)

tomo pauk said:


> Dowding IS the most iconic RAF figure of WW2 in my eyes


Walk down a high street in the UK
any high street. Select a representative cross-section of people and ask them, "Do you know who Douglas Bader was?" I'm reasonably confident that they will.

To avoid infecting your poll by association, select another, equally representative cross-section and ask "Do you know who Hugh Dowding was?" I'm reasonably confident that a fair few of them won't.

Bader was iconic, Dowding was influential.

Bader caught the public imagination as the legless hero of the air at a time when the British public needed heroes. Dowding sat quietly in Whitehall and orchestrated the architectural changes necessary to retain the RAF as a viable fighting force. Their characters, those of great strength, were what they shared, their personalities however, were utterly different.


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## tomo pauk (Nov 17, 2009)

I'm sure that more people in UK know about Bader then about Dowding. 
But how many? Judging by our "Hitler - football coach" thread, it's very unlikely that someone born 30, 40 or 50 years after the battle would know who those two were. 
No offense here - the people under 40-50 ages barely know (or are barely interested in) the history. What ever country we talk about 


Now, since my walk on UK high streets remain just my wish, and Dowding was the only character I remember from the "Battle of Britain" movie*, I'll stick with Hugh.


*not only because of that, of course


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## Colin1 (Nov 17, 2009)

tomo pauk said:


> Judging by our "Hitler - football coach" thread, it's very unlikely that someone born 30, 40 or 50 years after the battle would know who those two were


Well
if you've been conscientious enough to select a representative cross-section, they won't all be schoolchildren


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## stona (Nov 17, 2009)

I think Colin1 that you are correct. I however will still vote for Dowding. That right is what they were both fighting for.
Steve


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## Park82 (Nov 24, 2009)

Many thanks for your votes in our poll to find the most iconic RAF figure of World War Two. At the moment Air Chief Marshal Dowding leads the pack, with Bader, Harris and Gibson following on close behind. 

This poll has led to some great discussion about what constitutes an iconic figure, and plenty of debate about the merits of certain candidates, so we have decided to leave the poll open until the end of the year. 

Please do cast your vote if you haven’t already, we would love to hear your views.


90 faces of the RAF Benevolent Fund


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## parsifal (Nov 28, 2009)

This is a hard question. I think Dowding was the most important defensive air commander in the RAF, but if he had been asked to undertake offensive operations I doubt he would have done as well. 

In my opinion, the best offensive air commander in the RAF was another New Zealander, Arthur Coningham.

Harris was a mixed bag. His 1000 bomber raids were strokes of brilliance, saving the RAF at a time it felt it was on the verge of defeat. His raids against Hamburg and the Ruhr were devastating....but his decision to press on to Berlin smacked of meglomania and poor judgement 

Best is not necessarily iconic, but for me theyr are the same....not all that interested in image and PR


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## conkerking (Nov 28, 2009)

Dowding for me.


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## Park82 (Jan 6, 2010)

Thanks to all who have cast their votes on the most iconic RAF figure of World War Two. The online poll has been very popular so we are keeping it open until the end of January.

So there’s still time to give your opinion – every vote counts!

90 faces of the RAF Benevolent Fund

At the moment Air Chief Marshal Dowding leads the pack, with Bader, Harris and Gibson following on close behind. 

The game is hosted on the RAF Benevolent Fund’s special 90th anniversary microsite, “90 Faces of the RAF Benevolent Fund”. The microsite is full of stories and anecdotes about the charity, the people we help and our supporters. Please do have a look around the site after placing your vote, and learn more about the RAF’s leading welfare charity.


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## vinnye (Jan 6, 2010)

Dowding then Park then Malan for me.
Must also consider Johnnie Johnson ;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnnie_Johnson_(RAF_officer)


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