# Cold War Specialized ECM Aircraft



## Zipper730 (Apr 24, 2017)

I know of the EB-47E and EB-66, what did the RAF use for this role?


----------



## XBe02Drvr (Apr 29, 2017)

Hey Zipper,
How about the EC-121, EB-57, EC-130, EA-3B, EA-6B, E-1, E-2, E-3, and the mighty EA-1 Skyraider?
Cheers,
Wes


----------



## Zipper730 (Apr 30, 2017)

XBe02Drvr said:


> How about the EC-121, EB-57, EC-130, EA-3B, EA-6B, E-1, E-2, E-3, and the mighty EA-1 Skyraider?


I was always under the impression that the EC-121, E-1, E-2, and E-3 were more of an AEW/AWACS type aircraft than a jamming platform?

As for the other designs, I got the following

EA-1: Fits the bill except the EA-1E which was for AEW

EB-57: Fits the bill
EC-130: They seem to jam communications more than radar systems, but I'd say it counts enough if you could fuck up enemy communication.
EA-3: Fits the bill
EA-6: Fits the bill
I was curious about this as specialized jamming aircraft would augment the ability for (then) current bombers to penetrate enemy air defenses over bombers operating simply by themselves.

It does surprise me that the USAF didn't take the GAM-67 very seriously: An anti-radiation missile would greatly improve their survival prospects by killing the radar site. You'd think they could have just kluged the seeker onto another missile design depending on how big it was. 

The ASM-N-8 Corvus project presented a second opportunity, which they actually initially rejected as they deemed it unnecessary. At least somebody thought up the idea of working the seeker into another missile design and got the AGM-45.


----------



## XBe02Drvr (Apr 30, 2017)

Zipper730 said:


> I was always under the impression that the EC-121, E-1, E-2, and E-3 were more of an AEW/AWACS type aircraft than a jamming platform?


We had a resident EC-121 detachment that flew ELINT missions around Fidel's worker's paradise, and we got visited by E-2s from time to time; they both said they had DECM aboard for last-ditch protection from fighter attack. They seemed to think that was pretty standard for their mission. All these aircraft were classified as "electronic warfare" aircraft, jamming or no. Passive ECM, or PECM, includes threat detection and warning equipment, which all these types had.
Cheers.
Wes

Reactions: Informative Informative:
1 | Like List reactions


----------



## Zaggy (May 1, 2017)

What about the 'Simulators' too; stuff from FEWSG, such as:

EA-1F, EC-1A (S-2 Tracker mod), NC-121K, EP-3J, ERA-3B, EA-7L, EA-4F, EF-4B, EF-4J, EA-6A, EA-6B, FA-18A/B, etc...


----------



## michaelmaltby (May 1, 2017)

..... great thread
Lockheed EC-121


----------



## XBe02Drvr (May 1, 2017)

"Willie Victor", master of three engine landings!
Last time I checked on Google Earth, the four oil stains were still visible on the tarmac at the NAS where Willie parked. Those 3350s were suspected of having UK heredity, they leaked so bad!
Cheers,
Wes


----------



## XBe02Drvr (May 1, 2017)

Zaggy said:


> What about the 'Simulators' too; stuff from FEWSG, such as:
> 
> HEA-1F, EC-1A (S-2 Tracker mod), NC-121K, EP-3J, ERA-3B, EA-7L, EA-4F, EF-4B, EF-4J, EA-6A, EA-6B, FA-18A/B, etc...


Hang an "E" pod on it, and any craft becomes an "E-bird". How about an EAC-47? "Puff with a pod".
When threat detection and warning systems (passive ECM) became pretty near ubiquitous in tactical aircraft, they were all more or less E-birds.
Cheers,
Wes


----------



## soulezoo (May 1, 2017)

I don't see it listed but the RC-135 series of aircraft in my opinion represent the definitive aircraft related to the OP-- RAF question notwithstanding.

I have some direct experience with Rivet Joint and Cobra Ball.

On Edit: I forgot about Speckled Trout as well. Although not an ECM bird per se.


----------



## Token (May 4, 2017)

XBe02Drvr said:


> Hang an "E" pod on it, and any craft becomes an "E-bird". How about an EAC-47? "Puff with a pod".
> 
> When threat detection and warning systems (passive ECM) became pretty near ubiquitous in tactical aircraft, they were all more or less E-birds.




I think there is still a large difference between a specifically configured ECM / ELINT aircraft and one that can provide information or protection based on its own self protection suite. Even hanging multiple EA pods under a tactical aircraft does not give the same ability as dedicated EA aircraft.


The data and responses provided by an AN/APR-39 (for example) really does not compare to the data taken by or the response of a full on ECM aircraft. Such self protection oriented systems are great as long as the specific threat is in the EOB or library, but if the signal falls outside the programmed threat library they go pretty dumb.


Back in the day an aircraft like the EB-66 had a human in the loop. He could tune to an unknown signal, assess its threat value, and then tune a jammer with his evaluated optimal technique applied, assuming the jammer worked in the right frequency range. When you take the human out of the loop you speed up response times, no doubt about that, but at the cost of adaptability. Self protection oriented gear tends to be limited in hardware (bandwidth and power), threat library, and response techniques. While dedicated ECM platforms tend to be broader banded, have deeper programmed libraries, can have greater human input to respond to unusual signals, and typically have more power to work with. Power gooooodd….. 


As an example you really cannot compare an ALR-67 / ALE -55 / ALQ-214 combination of the F/A-18E/F (while very capable) to the ALQ-218 / ALQ-99 / NGJ of the EA-18G. Different horses for different courses.


T!


----------



## buffnut453 (May 4, 2017)

To go back to the original question, the RAF typically relied on self-protection. The only dedicated ECM platform operated by the RAF was the good ol' Canberra T.17 operated by 360 Sqn at RAF Wyton until 1994:






These birds were used for training only, hence the "T" designation. That said, I wouldn't have been surprised to see them used operationally if needed. Unfortunately, they are long gone, the EW training role now being accomplished by Flight Refuelling Ltd (a Cobham company) operating Dassault Falcons:







Hope this helps...a bit.


----------



## XBe02Drvr (May 5, 2017)

Ah, the Canberra! One summer's day in 1974, I was fueling a hotpad F-4 when the horn sounded in the alert shack and the alert 1 crews came racing for their aircraft, screeched to a halt with an exasperated "Oh sh_t!", and hit the tarmac. A pair of silver and orange EB-57s came whistling across the air station at mangrove level headed straight for the hotpad, climbed slightly to clear my tanker truck and the alert birds, blasting us all with coral dust, then pitched up into the break pattern, came around and landed. Total pandemonium! Two of the Hawk sites called NORAD for launch authorization, CFR dashed madly about the field, Security went bananas, Tower waved off all traffic in the control zone; we'd just been "had" by the 158th Air Defense Evaluation Group, Vermont ANG. No one saw them coming.
Only 90 miles from Fidel's doorstep, we shouldn't have been such "easy meat" for weekend warriors driving a pair of slow obsolete antiques, which led to much embarrasment, blame laying, and relieving of various commanding officers from their duties.
Cheers,
Wes

Reactions: Like Like:
1 | Like List reactions


----------

