# Bf-109 Red 7, Down again !



## v2 (Apr 16, 2008)

According to this thread at UKAR, BF-109G Red 7 has made a gear up landing at Manching on it's first flight after a two year rebuild from a 2005 incident.


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## fly boy (Apr 16, 2008)

v2 said:


> According to this thread at UKAR, BF-109G Red 7 has made a gear up landing at Manching on it's first flight after a two year rebuild from a 2005 incident.



again i starting to think it is cursed or something


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## ToughOmbre (Apr 16, 2008)

Hate to see that.  Hope the damage isn't too serious for a warbird so rare.

TO


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## Thorlifter (Apr 16, 2008)

Sure looks like the pilot did a good job putting it down.


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## wilbur1 (Apr 16, 2008)

Yeah doesnt look like to much damage, still a shame though wonder if they found out why the gear didnt work


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Apr 16, 2008)

That sucks. Maybe it is time to stop flying these old birds.


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## smg (Apr 16, 2008)

men that sucks o well fix it and try again thats what i say


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## Wurger (Apr 16, 2008)




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## SoD Stitch (Apr 16, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> That sucks. Maybe it is time to stop flying these old birds.



Yeah, you said it; I hate to see an extremely rare a/c like that get damaged, no matter how little. I would rather see a Mustang belly-in, than a 109. However, as Thorlifter said, it looks like the pilot did an excellent job of setting it down with a minimum of damage.


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## davparlr (Apr 16, 2008)

That plane looks like it has the Daimler-Benz in it, very rare. Doesn't look like too much damage. Sometimes I wonder about the throughness of preping these warbirds for flight. I wonder if they cycled the gear before the flight. Sad to see a plane crash on first flight from refurb like that B-29 that burned, prior to flight. Of course they are old and tempermental.


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## SoD Stitch (Apr 16, 2008)

davparlr said:


> That plane looks like it has the Daimler-Benz in it, very rare. Doesn't look like too much damage. Sometimes I wonder about the throughness of preping these warbirds for flight. I wonder if they cycled the gear before the flight. Sad to see a plane crash on first flight from refurb like that B-29 that burned, prior to flight. Of course they are old and tempermental.



Yes, the B-29 was a heartbreaker; to spend weeks and weeks working on getting an a/c like the B-29 airworthy in the incredibly bad conditions they were in, then to see it catch on fire and burn to the ground because of a stupid defective on-board APU really hurts. It would've been only the second airworthy B-29 in the world.


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## model299 (Apr 16, 2008)

I was under the impression that she'd been permanently grounded after the last incident. I guess I was wrong.

Sad to see this, glad no one was hurt.


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## v2 (Apr 16, 2008)

Just thought I'd post the history of the aircraft so you can see it's terrible luck! 

(Taken from the Key Publishing forum)

Bf 109 G-4 "red 7" (Me Air Company/Germany)

Behind costly restoration projects, as the restoration of an Oldtimer to airworthy condition, mostly stands a big company, holding these planes as traditional planes. Not in case of this Messerschmitt Bf 109 G-4. The restoration works were financed and done totally private. This is much more astonishing, when you remember the huge costs of such an project.
Actually this plane is not a real "genuine original", because the restoration is based on the Ha 1112 M-1L (WNr. 139), used for the movie "Battle of Britain". It was produced in 1950 at Hispano in Spain. Nevertheless it took eight years, until it entered service with the Spanish airforce code C.4K-75. There is nothing known about its "life" at "Ejercito del Aire", but maybe this "Buchon" was used during the Ifni-Conflict in North Africa. In 1965 the plane was withdrawn from service and parked at the airbase in Tablada, where it stood for three years, until it was purchased for the "Battle of Britain" movie and optically converted into a Bf 109 E-4. In the movie the plane carried the markings of "yellow 11" and "red 14". Still during 1968 the plane was intended to play a role in another movie and so was reconverted into a P-51 "Mustang". Therefore a fake belly-cooler was attached. But the plane crashed during a take-off and was severely damaged. Later, the "Buchon" went to England, before it was shipped to the USA, where it was reviewed and fixed until 1986. During the first test-flight, the plane again crashed and was again heavily damaged. Afterwards it was poorly fixed and converted into a Bf 109 near shape for static display. 1994/95 the plane was again shipped to France and later to Augsburg (Germany), where it was planned to make it airworthy again. The French owner gave up this plan, because of the costs and made the wreck up for sale.
In October 1997 the actual owners got knowledge about this plane and made the spontaneous decision to buy it. The initiator already got a functional DB 605 engine. During the further examinations, it became obvious, that the fuselage was not useable anymore and a new would have been to construct. Only the cockpit section, the spar bridge and some other small parts could be used. Of course the team needed help from specialists, to construct parts and components for the plane. Parts of the aft fuselage were produced in England and the tail fin was made by AERA in Italy, who already restored the Bf 109 G-4 "Nesthäkchen". The wings got a new covering and the stabilizer of a bellylanded "Gustav" was attached. The engine hood was that of a G-4, although the team initially wanted to construct a G-6. The lack of the "Beulen" (bulbs) in the hood and the resulting better view, were in favour of the G-4. The cooler is not genuine too, because the bigger variant - used with G-10 - was attached, to improve flight security.

In January 2004, the DB 605 was attached to the plane and worked without any problems. During June the ground testing begun and ended with the preliminary traffic licence. The flight testing was done by Walter Eichhorn, who also flies the Bf 109 G-6 and G-10 of the Messerschmitt Foundation. He took off for the maiden flight at August 23´rd 2004.

Being done under top secret conditions, the officially presentation of this restoration project at October 8´th in Albstadt-Degerfeld was like a thunderbolt. Prideful the owners presented their Bf 109, marked as "red seven", that took off to its presentation flight into the blue skies.

At 07/16/2005 Siggi Knoll came in to touch down after a short flight. It was flight number 105 of this Bf 109. This landing failed and the plane touched down with only one wheel, than touched the ground with the opposite wing. The undercarriage broke, the engine was torn out and came to rest some meters beside the crashed plane. The pilot was not injured. After some days of shock, the owners decided, to repair their plane and bring it back to the skies again.


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## Gnomey (Apr 16, 2008)

Shame to see it crash like that but as the others have said it looks like the pilot put it down pretty well. Hopefully they will be willing to put it back together again and make it flightworthy.


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## ToughOmbre (Apr 16, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> That sucks. Maybe it is time to stop flying these old birds.



It does raise the question.....

Should these great old warbirds continue to fly?

IMO the rarest aircraft should not fly. Certainly, if only one example exists, there's no way it should ever take to the air.

As for for the relatively numerous examples (i.e. P-51s, AT-6s, B-25s, etc.).....

*KEEP 'EM FLYING!* 

TO


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## Njaco (Apr 16, 2008)

Hate to read something like this.

This particular plane reminds me of James Dean's car. haunted life.


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## Micdrow (Apr 16, 2008)

Wow that really sucks, I wonder if even less damage would have been done if they skidded next to the runway on the grass.


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## Célérité (Apr 16, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> That sucks. Maybe it is time to stop flying these old birds.



Maybe, but an aircraft nail down on the ground is an airplane death. Too clean, no sound, no smell... no soul. Their existence has meaning only in flight.And it's here they do vibrated our hearts and guts.


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## pbfoot (Apr 16, 2008)

every thing to has to hand made
every item is a one of


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## model299 (Apr 16, 2008)

I've seen them in worse shape and they've come back. The P-51-C from Minnesota's CAF wing comes to mind. It was pranged quite badly in 2004, resulting in the death of the pilot, Don Hinz.

They're now rebuilding her, hopefully to be airworthy once again.


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## Schwarze_13 (Apr 16, 2008)

Célérité said:


> Maybe, but an aircraft nail down on the ground is an airplane death. Too clean, no sound, no smell... no soul. Their existence has meaning only in flight.And it's here they do vibrated our hearts and guts.



That sounds as though Saint-Ex himself could have written it  

I agree. As long as all the safety precautions possible are taken and there are experienced pilots willing to fly them - why not?

Besides the landing gear could have failed on any aircraft (and do) plus the majority of this 'warbird' is new-build too...


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## Wildcat (Apr 17, 2008)

Shame! Such a beautiful aircraft. Hopefully it will be repaired soon.


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## Wayne Little (Apr 17, 2008)

Yeah, lets hope it's back in the air soon!


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## Célérité (Apr 17, 2008)

Schwarze_13 said:


> That sounds as though Saint-Ex himself could have written it



Sorry Schwarze, but it's not Saint Ex who wrote it, it's me. However I think he would agree with me.


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## evangilder (Apr 17, 2008)

I think that keeping them on the ground would be a shame. Being a volunteer at a place that restores and flies these rare birds, I say let them fly. Nothing beats the looks on children's faces and old vets too when one of those big radials (or Merlins) fires up. Seeing them fly spurs interest in them and keeps the interest going. Plus, if they are sitting on the ground, they make damn boring pictures!


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## pbfoot (Apr 17, 2008)

evangilder said:


> I think that keeping them on the ground would be a shame. Being a volunteer at a place that restores and flies these rare birds, I say let them fly. Nothing beats the looks on children's faces and old vets too when one of those big radials (or Merlins) fires up. Seeing them fly spurs interest in them and keeps the interest going. Plus, if they are sitting on the ground, they make damn boring pictures!


Amen


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## R-2800 (Apr 17, 2008)

I also think that we should keep flying these rare planes. However we occasionally lose a plane to flying accidents that could have been avodid had the aircraft instead been put on display, and that is just plain sad.


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## comiso90 (Apr 17, 2008)

Célérité said:


> Maybe, but an aircraft nail down on the ground is an airplane death. Too clean, no sound, no smell... no soul. Their existence has meaning only in flight.And it's here they do vibrated our hearts and guts.



Nicely said but I'll add a qualification.

I'd like to see 3 museum quality static models of every type. If there are more then 3 of a given type in museums then let any remainders fly. 

If an aircraft is so rare that there are only 3 in existence, then they should be eternally grounded.

I think it's irresponsible to risk cracking up such a valuable piece of history it there are only a couple survivors. I get a tremendous kick out of seeing war birds in museums or in flight.

Since there are a few ME-109's in museums... I think we can afford to have one or two in flying condition. 

.


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## kool kitty89 (Apr 17, 2008)

Yeah Evanglider, 
Hell, PoF flies the Only fully authentic P-26 and Zero in existance. (Zero with original engine)

And they'll be flying their YP-59A once it's restoration is completed. 8)


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## pbfoot (Apr 17, 2008)

There is another 109e3 that just came online I believe Paul Allen in the NW US just got his airborne


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## Soren (Apr 17, 2008)

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:


> That sucks. Maybe it is time to stop flying these old birds.




Agreed. Make and fly copies instead!

These birds should fly that's for sure, but the old originals shouldn't be flying aerobatics in airshows, that should be led to copies of the real thing.


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## comiso90 (Apr 18, 2008)

kool kitty89 said:


> Yeah Evanglider,
> Hell, PoF flies the Only fully authentic P-26 and Zero in existance. (Zero with original engine)
> 
> And they'll be flying their YP-59A once it's restoration is completed. 8)




Too rare.. park them. 

IMO - The allegorical, romantic B.S. that "_they are machines built to fly.._" is a shortsighted and selfish notion.

They are historically significant relics that your grandchildren deserve to see. 

Should the USS Constitution, USS Yorktown, HMS victory be taken to the high seas cause they're meant to sail? 

Should the chair that Lincoln was shot in be allowed to host the arse of anybody that wants to sit simply because it's a chair and chairs are made for sitting?

Should the Spirit of St. Louis join the air show circuit?

believe me, I'd love to see the P-26 or Zero fly but not at the expense of denying future generations the pleasure of seeing and being inspired by, the real thing!

.


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## Haztoys (Apr 18, 2008)

comiso90 said:


> Too rare.. park them.
> 
> IMO - The allegorical, romantic B.S. that "_they are machines built to fly.._" is a shortsighted and selfish notion.
> 
> ...



I can see were your coming from ...But this 109 is made from parts ...its not a real German 109 ... I say fly the old girl ... There lots of the Spanish 109's around ...


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## comiso90 (Apr 18, 2008)

Haztoys said:


> I can see were your coming from ...But this 109 is made from parts ...its not a real German 109 ... I say fly the old girl ... There lots of the Spanish 109's around ...




My comments were directed mostly to the P-26 and zero that I referenced.. but there are a few zeros in museums too.


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## Chocks away! (Apr 18, 2008)

comiso, I agree.

I think Flugwerk needs to work overtime! 8) 

Flug Werk GmbH Germany


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