# ICBM for the Kriegsmarine.



## CharlesBronson (Sep 10, 2010)

*Lafferenz Projekt, ICBM for the Kriegsmarine.*

A remarkable technological experiment .The Director Otto Lafferenz of the German Arbeitsfront, work front had proven by practical attempts that a submarine up to three could drag largest dipable flotation chambers. With U 1063 underwaterdrag tested and showed only minimum problems. From the question resulted whether it was possible to carry in these flotation chambers A 4-Raketen. 

The thought was to start these rockets from the dipping containers. Thus 1943 a further project developed. The transportation and firing container should have a length of 37 m and a diameter of 5,5 m. With the size one spoke of the enormous water displacement of 500 tons. After reaching the goal the tail would have been flooded and the flotation chambers would have perpendicularly placed and approx. 5 meters risen up out of the water. 

*The Type XXI u-boote and the container for the V-2.*







On a gyro-stabilized platform A-4 would have been refuelled and examined. The current supply should take place via the submarine. Briefly before the start the operator crew would have left the container. The starting signal would have been given from the submarine. On the start distance within the flotation chamber one intended to lead A 4 in rails and to return the gas jet across a Schurre around l80°, so that he could withdraw upward. For the travel over the Atlantic one computed about 30 days with 12 nautical miles speed to the planned goal (the USA). The container would be towed by a tp XX1 "elektro boat" submarine, and it ws expected to shot the missile about 200-220 km from the U.S coast, the main target... New York.


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## vikingBerserker (Sep 11, 2010)

There was a book written a looooooooooooooong time ago called Operation Pivot or something like that- which talked about this. Truly fascinating, great post as always CB!


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## RabidAlien (Sep 11, 2010)

Yeah....I'd hate to be the poor sap who's tapped to sit in that itty bitty control room...directly underneath the exhaust of a V2 rocket that's being launched from inside an inflatable toy somewhere in the freezing waters of the Atlantic or the English Channel. Yeah. That would have to be considered a Bad Day.


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## BombTaxi (Sep 11, 2010)

I bet that thing would show up really nicely on ASV radar - who wants to be tied to a V2 as a Liberator sweeps in and dumps a stick of DCs on you?


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## johnbr (Sep 11, 2010)

Word is it got to the prototype testing .


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## CharlesBronson (Sep 11, 2010)

Believe it or not there was another system to launch underwater projectiles tested in Germany, that was the *Do-38 Gerät*-. The "Do" came from mr Walther Dornberger the chief rocketeer of the german army. The 210 and 280 mm rockets were mounted in a steel frame on a submarine and succesfully launched submerged to more than 10 meters deep. The maximum range was 4 kilometers and the prefered target big oil depot tanks in the US west coast. In spite of being a workable design ( tested in Peenemunde in late 1942) the Do-38 Gerät never was put in action.


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## fastmongrel (Sep 12, 2010)

A V 2 launched from land had a hard time hitting London. Hitting anything from a vertical cylindrical tank pitching, yawing and rolling in the middle of the Atlantic is going to be near impossible. 

Towing the cylinder will be a problem, the Elektroboot would have to spend most of its crossing snorkelling and you cant do that at 12 knots in anything other than a flat calm. Also the cylinder is going to need a crew to keep an eye on the bouyancy and trim so you are going to need a power and compressed air supply from the towing boat and possibly an air supplyfor breathing unless the cylinder has its own snorkel mast.

If the Germans coud have got it to work it would have been a good propaganda victory and would have caused panic in the US but would have made a miniscule amount of difference to the war


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## rgallant (Sep 13, 2010)

A good propaganda victory for certain, minuscule effect on the war maybe not. Consider if 3 or 4 of these actually were fired and hit or came close to NY, DC or any other large eastern seaboard city. The sheer amount of US resources that would have have been tied up would have most likely extended the war. Perhaps not more than 6 months to a year, but still not a "minuscule amount".

Consider the number of ships and aircraft the US would have dedicated to protecting the eastern seaboard. Along with the corresponding drop in equipment going to Europe. As well it would have given more influence to the isolationist movement, who would want the US secure before Europe.

All what if's for sure, but a significant strike on the US would have had a noticeable effect on the war. And 3 or 4 V2's striking the US mainland would be significant, particularly if the firing location was unknown.







fastmongrel said:


> A V 2 launched from land had a hard time hitting London. Hitting anything from a vertical cylindrical tank pitching, yawing and rolling in the middle of the Atlantic is going to be near impossible.
> 
> Towing the cylinder will be a problem, the Elektroboot would have to spend most of its crossing snorkelling and you cant do that at 12 knots in anything other than a flat calm. Also the cylinder is going to need a crew to keep an eye on the bouyancy and trim so you are going to need a power and compressed air supply from the towing boat and possibly an air supplyfor breathing unless the cylinder has its own snorkel mast.
> 
> If the Germans coud have got it to work it would have been a good propaganda victory and would have caused panic in the US but would have made a miniscule amount of difference to the war


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## BombTaxi (Sep 13, 2010)

Thats a very good point, the US would no doubt have drawn A/S forces back toward home waters rather than deploying them in the mid-Atlantic. However, by that stage convoys had their own organic ASW air elements, and the 'air gap' had been closed, so it wouldn't necessarily have made life any easier for the U-boats that managed to make it out into the mid-Atlantic. Therefore, I don't think that the war would have gone on any longer as a result of V2 strikes on the US mainland. Nor would the propoganda value have been huge, as the German armies would still have been getting stuffed by the Allies on both fronts, regardless of how many V2s hit New York. Very much a case of far too little, far too late,


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## Propellorhead (Sep 13, 2010)

It was disclosed in CSDIC transcripts from conversations by Dornberger that Hitler had intentions for the V-2 other than delivering two tons of explosives. If deployed against USA they would have been strictly with nuclear warheads. The SS also developed a radio homing beacon for this purpose requiring a spy to position it at the target location. These CSDIC transcripts were introduced as evidence in nuremberg trials.

The first 330 ton Lafferenz capsule was trialed in the Baltic. Later 500 ton capsules were captured at the Vulkan dockyards in Stettin by the Soviets. 

The Alchohol fueled V-2 was not much use for this operation because hydrogen peroxide used to drive it's turbopumps would degrade through the journey.

The A-8 missile slightly taller was developed for this particular mission using 20% Nitric acid and 80% diesel oil, pressured from tanks by nitrogen. It also offered 600nm range allowing a U-boat to launch further from the coast. The launch sequence took half an hour.


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## tail end charlie (Sep 13, 2010)

I read a long time ago the economic effort required to produce the V2 was approximately equal to the damage it caused and the loss of life making them was also huge much was slave labour. A weapon like could only be used if Germany had complete control of the Atlantic in which case it wouldnt be needed.


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## CharlesBronson (Sep 17, 2010)

Allow me some disagreement here, one thing is the propaganda effect and other thing is the influence in the final outcome of the war. I can name a lot of propaganda victories for the germans wich had no final effect in outcome of the war like Dieppe, Tobruk, Mers-El-kebir and so. In this case if only one, just one V2 or Do-38 did hit some important target the effect on the US population were to be huge because that indicate they were not untouchable. Now the final effect in the outcome of the war were to be almost inexistent.


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