# Ferry Command



## pbfoot (Nov 2, 2006)

Just watched a documentary about Ferry Command and learned an interesting fact the RAF wouldn't supply pilots to ferry the aircraft as they thought it couldn't be done so Beaverbrook and the Austrailian Bennett were forced to recruit pilots bush pilots and crop dusters or those with low time and few skills to ferry aircraft across the North Atlantic . Another interesting fact was up to this point fewer then 100 flight had transited the pond.


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## ndicki (Nov 3, 2006)

Lots of women, too - look for the ATA.


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## pbfoot (Nov 3, 2006)

The ATA did great work but mainly delivered aircraft short distances flights I've seen log books for the ATA and in the UK the average flight was under 25 minutes but the Ferry Command guys ferried over 10000 aircraft around the world thats a huge difference pioneering the North Atlantic. Flying aircraft across the Atlantic with no navaids to a land that was blacked out hoping the weather at their destination was as forecasted with the limited met facilities available


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Nov 3, 2006)

Yeap the US also used a lot of women as ferry pilots.


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## ndicki (Nov 3, 2006)

Interesting little link:

The Royal Air Force - History Section

This one has more pictures:

British Airways Museum Collection - ATA
British Airways Museum Collection - ATA Images

And apparently, the largest foreign contingent was American!


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## pbfoot (Nov 3, 2006)

Not to demean the women but ferry command pilots flew aircraft long distances from the factories in North America to the theatres of operations flying an aircraft from the US to India or Austrailia is much more difficult then flying from Manston to Debden. The fact being the women get more credit then the guys who pioneered trans oceanic but I guess we must be politically correct


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## dmoores (Nov 5, 2006)

Thanks for the info. Any idea who made it? Does Gander NFLD feature in it?

Cheers

DM


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## pbfoot (Nov 6, 2006)

heres a link to the documentary it was on the CBC or Canadian Broadcasting Company and to clarify something there were no women in Ferry Command
CBC-TV: Doc Zone - Ferry Command


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## Magyckman (Nov 13, 2006)

Along those same lines, I have a very interesting little booklet titled _The Atlantic Bridge_ published in London in 1945 by His Majesty's Stationery Office. I paid a nice little price for it to an Air Canada pilot who fetched it back across the pond for me when I was working in Alberta a few years ago. I'd have to reread it to recall the details, but it's quite an interesting read and "jumpng the pond was no small feat then." These men played a vital role in the war effort.


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## Krabat42 (Nov 13, 2006)

And don't forget the russians. They had their own "ferry command" with lots of pilots picking up planes in Alaska and flying them to Siberia. AFAIK they were using women too. I remember a book about this topic. I have to check for the title though.


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## Wildcat (Nov 13, 2006)

Another interesting and lesser known operation was conducted by QANTAS and the RAAF starting in 1943 called the Indian Ocean Service. Because the Japanese had captured Singapore, a new route across the Indian Ocean was needed, therefore QANTAS flew via Sri Lanka (Ceylon). The distance from Perth (western Australia) to Sri Lanka was 5632Km (3513miles). These flights were initially made by Catalina's and later Liberators in complete radio silence (Japanese a/c were active in the area) and without any radio navigation. Apparently this was the worlds longest non-stop over water service at the time.


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## Magyckman (Nov 13, 2006)

I don't remember offhand which WASP it was, but one of the WASP who flew P-39's and P-63's to Great Falls to be flown on to Russia sat across from one of the Russian women in the chow hall who had came to pick up a 'Cobra . There's an interesting little anecdote about the WASP not knowing who the Russian woman was and sticking her foot in her mouth. 

You probably already know this, but the Russians used a lot of women in combat in WWII. One group flew old Po-2's and harrased the German troops by droping small bombs on their barracks every night. A lot of the women burned to death in those old crates when they were hit by the guns of German night fighters. The Germans despised them and named them the "Night Witches."


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## Nonskimmer (Nov 13, 2006)

pbfoot said:


> ...the CBC or Canadian Broadcasting Company


Canadian Broadcasting *Corporation*. 

Sorry. Bad habit, picking on useless sh*t like that. Always drove the wife insane. 

Wasn't there a national history ad on TV a couple of years back, celebrating some Canadian female ferry pilot during WWII? Remember, in the ad she was delivering a Spitfire to an English field somewhere, in heavy fog? I forget her name already, that's how interested I was.


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## Pike (Feb 9, 2007)

The outfit was called The Air Transport Auxillary and their story is told in a book entitled possibly "The Thin Blue Line"


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## david_layne (Mar 10, 2007)

From "Atlantic Bridge"


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## david_layne (Mar 10, 2007)

Magyckman said:


> Along those same lines, I have a very interesting little booklet titled _The Atlantic Bridge_ published in London in 1945 by His Majesty's Stationery Office. I paid a nice little price for it to an Air Canada pilot who fetched it back across the pond for me when I was working in Alberta a few years ago. I'd have to reread it to recall the details, but it's quite an interesting read and "jumpng the pond was no small feat then." These men played a vital role in the war effort.





eBay: Atlantic Bridge. Official Account of RAF ferry flights (item 200085771005 end time Mar-11-07 11:55:34 PDT)


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## pbfoot (Nov 22, 2011)

Amazing what these guys did , there had only been 40 crossings of the Atlantic up until 1939 including Alcock and Brown and Lindberg there was no weather service no navaids no nothing > the RAF was so desparate for aircraft particularly the Hudson as an ASW aircraft that they were willing to sustain 50% losses . Thanks to Bennett the Aussie who got the operation up and running they did far better then 50% losses its really an amazing undertold story how a bunch of US and Canadian civilian pilots and a load of pilots from all the Allied forces got those birds across the pond . Some of the aircraft had no icing equipment and all had extra fuel tanks installed making a fire hazard . There is even a documented case of a Catalina icing up at 20000 feet and recovering at lo level and such was the strain that both ailerons separated the aircraft he finished by landing aircraft 17 hours after loosing ailerons. Anyone with any interest in WW2 aviation should surely check this forgotten topic a look . For your info there were no women with the exception of Jackie Cochrane (was not allowed to touch controls) that were involved in this operation

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## Milosh (Nov 22, 2011)

1942 movie > *Captains of the Clouds*

Captains of the Clouds - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_Brian MacLean (James Cagney), Johnny Dutton (Dennis Morgan), "Tiny" Murphy (Alan Hale, Sr.), "Blimp" Lebec (George Tobias) and "Scrounger" Harris (Reginald Gardiner) are bush pilots competing for business in rugged Northern Ontario, Canada in 1939, as the Second World War is beginning. While Dutton flies by the book, MacLean is a seat-of-the-pants kind of pilot, mirroring the differences in their personalities.

When Dutton saves MacLean's life by transporting a doctor under dangerous flying conditions, MacLean is grateful. He steals and marries Dutton's badly-behaved girlfriend Emily Foster (Brenda Marshall) in order to save him from a life of misery. Dutton, however, does not see MacLean's actions as an act of kindness, and abruptly ends their friendship. Depressed, Dutton gives his savings to charity and enlists in the Royal Canadian Air Force.
Brenda Marshall and James Cagney during his recovery Reginald Denny, Alan Hale, George Tobias and James Cagney listening to Churchill's radio broadcast James Cagney and Dennis Morgan in a confrontation prior to takeoff on the ferry mission.
Among the bush planes that "starred" in the production was the Noorduyn Norseman seen touching down, and the Fairchild 71C above it, now displayed in the Alberta Aviation Museum.[3]

Later, after hearing Winston Churchill's "We shall fight on the beaches" speech on the radio, MacLean and the other bush pilots attempt to enlist in the air force, only to find that they are too old for combat. They agree to train as flight instructors for the Commonwealth Air Training Plan. Their superior officer is none other than Dutton. MacLean's brash and fiercely independent nature clashes with the military way of doing things and he inevitably washes out. For revenge, he and Tiny buzz the airfield in their bush planes when renowned Canadian First World War ace Air Marshal William "Billy" Bishop (playing himself) attends his group's graduation ceremony. Unfortunately, Tiny suffers a blackout (loss of vision due to g-forces) during a strenuous maneuver, crashes and dies.

When two transport aircraft crash, killing all 44 ferry pilots aboard, there is a desperate need for pilots to transport Lockheed Hudson bombers to Britain. MacLean and other civilians volunteer to fly the unarmed bombers from Newfoundland. He finds himself in a flight commanded by Dutton when they are attacked by a German fighter. "Blimp" Lebec is shot down. With his navigator Scrounger dead and no other way to fight back, MacLean uses his superb flying skills to crash his unwieldy bomber into the nimble fighter, sacrificing himself to save the remainder of the flight._


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## Edgar Brooks (Nov 22, 2011)

There's also a book entitled, "Spitfire Women of World War II," by Giles Whittell, and there's been a TV programme with (I think) the same title. Before going on about PC, it pays to remember that the idea of women flying warplanes was unthinkable, 70 years ago, and 15 of them, including Amy Johnson, died doing the work. The prejudice, against them, was incredible; their boss had to fight hard to get them equal pay, and even to be allowed to wear trousers.


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## pbfoot (Nov 22, 2011)

Edgar Brooks said:


> There's also a book entitled, "Spitfire Women of World War II," by Giles Whittell, and there's been a TV programme with (I think) the same title. Before going on about PC, it pays to remember that the idea of women flying warplanes was unthinkable, 70 years ago, and 15 of them, including Amy Johnson, died doing the work. The prejudice, against them, was incredible; their boss had to fight hard to get them equal pay, and even to be allowed to wear trousers.


Yep they did good work and through no fault of their were not allowed to play in the big leagues. But thats enough of my PC'ness . Ferrying an aircraft in the UK with its small area or flying aircraft around the continental US with its airways and navaids is a whole different game then what these guys did and the difference is huge


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## michaelmaltby (Nov 23, 2011)

Great wartime newsreel on FC:

RAF FERRY COMMAND - British Pathe

As I have posted previously in other threads, my Mum's middle brother, Arthur, served in Ferry Command based out of Dorval, Quebec. I am going to pull my thoughts and recollections together about Arthur and post later.

Enjoy the newsreel. 

MM


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## pbfoot (Nov 23, 2011)

michaelmaltby said:


> Great wartime newsreel on FC:
> 
> RAF FERRY COMMAND - British Pathe
> 
> ...


not bad at all for the date, it mentioned unloading freight from B17 , they had to remove a lot of stuff from the B17 to leave room for enough fuel on a straight across flite (not stopping in Iceland or Greenland) and the B24 wouldcarry it. If you want to read a good trilogy on Ferry Command Don McVicar is the best 1st person I've read he's got about 3-4 books on the subject


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## michaelmaltby (Nov 23, 2011)

Thanks, pb 

MM


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## Commodore'48 (Dec 5, 2011)

I would like to request that you consider editing the Wikipedia article on "Atlantic Bridge" which seems to be limited to covering a small
portion of the Atlantic in World War ii, mostly to England via Iceland. I am registered to edit articles there, but don't know the copyright status
of your wonderful map, and have had no luck finding the book you mention.
Do I have your permission to share the image of these routes as long as I credit you with the posting, and no commercial use is undertaken?
I am a docent at the Fargo Air Museum, Fargo, ND and my father was a Air Transport Command pilot in both Atlantic and Pacific theaters.


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## Njaco (Dec 6, 2011)

I don't think Mr. Layne originated the map. I believe it was taken from that book "Atlantic Bridges" published by the UK. You might want to send him a PM and ask.


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## pbfoot (Dec 6, 2011)

Here is a map that shows more of the eastern part of the crossing it was a choice of several departure points depending on weather and the such it was pretty much downhill after getting to Iceland. None of the airports with the exception of Gander was even a dream in 39. This map is from Ocean Bridge by Carl Christie


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## Patriot007 (Dec 9, 2018)

pbfoot said:


> Just watched a documentary about Ferry Command and learned an interesting fact the RAF wouldn't supply pilots to ferry the aircraft as they thought it couldn't be done so Beaverbrook and the Austrailian Bennett were forced to recruit pilots bush pilots and crop dusters or those with low time and few skills to ferry aircraft across the North Atlantic . Another interesting fact was up to this point fewer then 100 flight had transited the pond.


~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Greetings; 
My Grandpa pioneered the North Atlantic flight route during the winter time. He was a squadron commander of one of the Ferry Squadrons while in the Army Air Corps during WWII. Before the war, he already had a private pilot's license. When approached by the Dept of Defence to join and was offered a commission through a special "fast-track" officer's training program, he chose the Army Air Corps because they had more of a variety of different planes that he could fly. He loved to fly and stated to me that he eventually flew every type of plane that the Air Corp had. 
While in the Army Air Corp, he served as an instructor at the Army Air Corp Flight Training Command. He also boasted to me that all of the pilots who flew the planes that dropped the two atom bombs over Japan were once students of his at basic flight school, where he taught them how to fly. It was later that he was given command of a Ferry Squadron. 


Before he died in April of 1997, on several or more occasions, he told to me his story of what happened during that pioneering flight over the North Atlantic during the winter time. 
Here is the graphic story of what my Grandpa, Lt. Col. Richard Ellis Larsen USAF Reserves Retired, conveyed to me: 

"The Germans were patrolling the North Atlantic during the Spring & Summer months trying to shoot-down our planes that we were trying to deliver to our forces and allies across the pond. The Germans also knew that we didn't fly those northern routes during the Winter time because of the bad weather and impossible flying conditions, so they would withdraw their forces during those colder months of the year and fortify those same forces along the southern flight routes. 
In order for us to minimize our losses, I was asked to attempt a flight across the North Atlantic during the Winter time; that we desperately needed a 'non-patrolled' flight route as soon as possible. I accepted this assignment. 
We flew out of [forgot exactly where] an airfield out of New England and proceeded northbound then eastbound to a designated airfield in England. We were taking four bomber planes for delivery to our guys over in England that would actually use them on bombing-runs. 
At our designated flight speed and height, shortly into our flight, I noticed ice forming on my wings and so did the pilots from the other three planes. We had to do something quick or we would not make it to our designated landing point in England. So, I flipped a quarter...'Heads' I would climb and 'tails' I would fly lower near the ocean surface where it was warmer, in the hopes that maybe the ice would melt-off my wings. The idea in climbing, I would place a number of 'crash-heights' below me, in the hopes of making it close enough to my designation for a recovery in the case that my plane went down. My quarter came-up as 'heads'. So I climbed higher...Higher than what the operating manual allowed for my plane. 
I climbed my plane so high, that we all had to wear our oxygen masks for the rest of the flight. One other of the three planes with us decided to follow me up to the higher altitude and the pilots of the other two planes decided to take their chances near the surface. I think I got up to near or around 40,000-feet (+,- some amount) before I leveled-off. I had to trim my fuel quite a bit, due to the drastically reduced air pressure and lack of oxygen up there. 
When I checked how the ice was doing on my wings, I noticed the weirdest phenomenon that I had never seen nor heard of...The ice actually started to evaporate off of my plane's wings. The pilots of the other plane with me at that altitude also confirmed the same thing on their plane. I then radiod to the other two planes that took their chances of flying near the ocean surface to get a report of how they were doing down there. They reported that the ice was getting thicker on their wings. I told them to join us at the higher altitude. They responded by letting me know that their wings had too much ice and they were too heavy to gain altitude. In fact, they also reported that not only could they NOT gain altitude, but that they were gradually losing altitude. We were too far out for them to turn around for home and too far north for them to fly south for warmer weather. They began to scream over the radio their may-day call. They kept screaming frantically over the radio that they couldn't gain altitude and were going-down; -until silence. 
-The rest of us found our way to Scotland and needed to land for fuel before finishing our trip to that designed air field in England. Our navigators could navigate to a very pinpoint accuracy over land but had very little training how to navigate over ocean. We were lucky enough to actually find Scotland, instead of somewhere else less favorable." 

That is the story that I remember being told. I also remember him telling me that he was NEVER recognized for what he did. He regretted that. 
Now, I wish to have him recognized for his heroic efforts and do not know where to start. 
Peace be with you.

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## fubar57 (Dec 9, 2018)

A great story and welcome to the forum. Do you have his log book? If so, you could pinpoint an aircraft he flew and build or have built a model of it as a tribute


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## Patriot007 (May 29, 2020)

fubar57 said:


> A great story and welcome to the forum. Do you have his log book? If so, you could pinpoint an aircraft he flew and build or have built a model of it as a tribute


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
He told me on numerous occasions that he loved to fly and chose the Army Air Corps because they had more different types of planes for him to fly. He eventually flew every single type in that branch of service during WWII. Post WWII, He retired as a Lieutenant Colonel in the USAF Reserves. 
I will ask around the family members as to the whereabouts of his flight logs. 
What I really want are his mission reports...Where could I start my search for those? I am also interested in getting a copy of his service jacket, along with a copy of his DD-214. Any ideas where to start my searches? 
--Thanks.


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