# Oh for %$# sakes!



## Nonskimmer (May 3, 2005)

*RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!* 
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/03/war-musuem050503.html

What a pile of complete bunk!! The paintings do *not* deal with how Canadian soldiers deal with the psychological toll of modern warfare!

A little background:The Canadian Airborne Regiment was sent to Somalia to conduct peacekeeping operations, in 1992. Now these guys had been prepping to go in as an assault force while things were still on the hotter side over there. They're an airborne regiment! That's what they do! They're trained *to kill and destroy!* While enroute, the situation suddenly changes and Canada's role in the whole mess becomes one of peacekeeping. The Chief of the Defence Staff requests a recall of the Airborne Regiment and the deployment of recently trained peacekeepers in their place. Does Ottawa listen?  
To save a few bucks in redeployment costs, they decide to leave them there. Well low and behold, they actually killed someone, who'd been trying to sneak onto their compound! 
They're paras for Christ's sake! They're friggin' psycho to begin with! Yes, they're going to be nasty, not use kid-gloves on a preceived threat!

A big political mess ensues, some junior guys go to prison, some senior guys are "retired", and..._the government disbands the Airborne Regiment!_ The paratroops still exist. Each of the regular infantry regiments now has it's own jump company. It was nothing more than a convenient excuse for that bloody Chrétien (our Prime Minister at the time of the inquiry) to save more money on an already dilapidated military!  


So now to add insult to injury, they're gonna hang these things in the new war museum as an example of "how Canadian soldiers deal with the psychological toll of modern warfare"?! Jesus Christ!! How utterly _pussified_ can we get?!  
And you know what? The public will eat it right up, there's not a doubt in my mind! I'm willing to bet you that these "veterans" they refer to as having approved the concept were nothing more than clerks!


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## evangilder (May 3, 2005)

Dude, I am with you, that totally sucks. I got half a mind to drive my POS Camry up there and slap some of the idiots! Oh wait, you can't slap them because shit splatters. 

Those paintings do not belong there. period.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 3, 2005)

Dude, that's horrible! You should find out who those "Vets" really are. Its amazing what a little claymore on a door knob will do!


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## evangilder (May 4, 2005)

Effective, FBJ! I like how you think. 8)


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## mosquitoman (May 4, 2005)

Why does everybody knock their own forces, then when their country's under attack they run to them. It's just stupid


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## evangilder (May 4, 2005)

It's not the forces, its the political correctness that has seeped its way into the upper echelons that try and cram that down the troops throats. I heard that the Drill Instructors aren't allowed to even swear at the recruits anymore. That kind of stuff gets me fired up. That and just general idiocy that either reduces the effectiveness of the unit or gets people killed.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 4, 2005)

When I was in the reserves I was the Assistant Supervisor of my shop. Once in a while I would get a little "piss ant," 19 year old with an attitude who would think that his supervisor couldn't yell at him or take any kind of action against him because of the "bleeding heart" attitude now enforced through the US military. I would wait till I was behind a Blast fence or in the back portion of our shop and slap em around like a 6 year old.   I made very sure that no one saw this although my maintenance chief knew about these methods and when conducted, ended the day with a "wink and a smile."


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## evangilder (May 4, 2005)

In some cases, that is the only way to get your point across. It is also effective for those cases. But the PC crowd wet their pants at things like that, thinking it's a self-esteem issue or some other nonsense. But geez, sometimes a dumbass just needs a good ass-kicking to get them in shape and they are fine after that.


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## the lancaster kicks ass (May 4, 2005)

stopping drill instructors swearing is one of the stupidest things ever!!


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## FLYBOYJ (May 4, 2005)

evangilder said:


> In some cases, that is the only way to get your point across. It is also effective for those cases. But the PC crowd wet their pants at things like that, thinking it's a self-esteem issue or some other nonsense. But geez, sometimes a dumbass just needs a good ass-kicking to get them in shape and they are fine after that.



Back then I could be pretty harsh, but I was fair. When my boys did well the got tons of praise, but I tolerated no back talk. When that did happen they got an "Attitude Incentive Lesson."


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## Maestro (May 4, 2005)

FLYBOYJ said:


> "Attitude Incentive Lesson."



Like the "Code Red" we heard about in the American movie "Des Hommes d'Honneur" with Tom Cruise, Kevin Bacon and Demi Moore ?


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## FLYBOYJ (May 4, 2005)

Not quite that bad. It was usually a one-on-one education lesson, WHERE I WOULD BIT#H SLAP THE LITTLE TART AROUND LIKE A RAG DOLL. When I was done his cheeks looked like polished apples freshly picked! If I were really mad I pracitced my football punt on the name tag sewen on the back of his trousers! I very rarely got others involved although one time we took one hard learner, duct-taped him head to toe to a swivel chair and left him with only his eyes exposed in the middle of the hangar. After 4 hours looking like a silver mummy, he learned his lesson. It was fun watching him de-tape.


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## Nonskimmer (May 4, 2005)

Just so I'm not being misread, I have no problem with soldiers being prosecuted for committing atrocities. The painting of Mcpl. Matchee was made from an actual photograph. The soldiers involved should have been punished for the crime of beating that guy to death, including any superiors who may have issued them any directives to do so.

Nor am I trying to use the old excuse that "Well, the brass should have known better than to send in the Airborne to do peacekeeping!". But quite honestly...they _should_ have known better. It was a grade-A cock-up to send them over for that type of operation. But rather than listen to the generals in the know, or admit to their mistake after the fact, they punish the entire regiment with disbandment! Outrageous! It's a classic example of political correctness gone too far, and it's been getting steadily worse ever since! 

People are ashamed of their armed forces (or what's left of them!), and hardly want to acknowledge us it seems! That is of course, unless we're handing out food parcels or are involved in some kind of disaster relief.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 4, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Just so I'm not being misread, I have no problem with soldiers being prosecuted for committing atrocities. The painting of Mcpl. Matchee was made from an actual photograph. The soldiers involved should have been punished for the crime of beating that guy to death, including any superiors who may have issued them any directives to do so.
> 
> Nor am I trying to use the old excuse that "Well, the brass should have known better than to send in the Airborne to do peacekeeping!". But quite honestly...they _should_ have known better. It was a grade-A cock-up to send them over for that type of operation. But rather than listen to the generals in the know, or admit to their mistake after the fact, they punish the entire regiment with disbandment! Outrageous! It's a classic example of political correctness gone too far, and it's been getting steadily worse ever since!
> 
> People are ashamed of their armed forces (or what's left of them!), and hardly want to acknowledge us it seems! That is of course, unless we're handing out food parcels or are involved in some kind of disaster relief.



No - I'm with you NS - and when an army fails in battle its those same people who ridicules us servicemen without mercy. There's a side of me that feels military service should be required for all so those who might make these decisions know what its like to walk in our shoes!


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## evangilder (May 4, 2005)

I'm with both of you. The event that happened wasn't right, agreed. But the painting of that event in a museum is ridiculous. Wouldn't it be better to honor the heroes?


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## plan_D (May 4, 2005)

That's what you get from today's society though. They all hate the military but they all cry to military when something bad happens.


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## Maestro (May 5, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Just so I'm not being misread, I have no problem with soldiers being prosecuted for committing atrocities. The painting of Mcpl. Matchee was made from an actual photograph. The soldiers involved should have been punished for the crime of beating that guy to death, including any superiors who may have issued them any directives to do so.
> 
> Nor am I trying to use the old excuse that "Well, the brass should have known better than to send in the Airborne to do peacekeeping!". But quite honestly...they _should_ have known better. It was a grade-A cock-up to send them over for that type of operation. But rather than listen to the generals in the know, or admit to their mistake after the fact, they punish the entire regiment with disbandment! Outrageous! It's a classic example of political correctness gone too far, and it's been getting steadily worse ever since!
> 
> People are ashamed of their armed forces (or what's left of them!), and hardly want to acknowledge us it seems! That is of course, unless we're handing out food parcels or are involved in some kind of disaster relief.



Yeah. As far as I know, even *France* never did such a thing.

My godfather is French. In the time he was in France (in the 60s), the military service was obligatory. Him and his two brothers all enlisted in Airborne units. My godfather fought during the war of Algeria and told me several stories. However, he never told me about a French regiment being disbanded because of such a thing.

Honestly, if ever I had to enlist in an army, my first choice would be to pay a trip to the UK and enlist in the British Airborne. If I was refused there, THEN I would try with the Foreign Legion in France. But fighting in the Canadian Army... I'm not sure.


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## Nonskimmer (May 5, 2005)

Well it's my sincere hope that the dark age of the Chrétien era has passed! [-o< 
The latest quorum of retards we have running the joint seem to be sloooooooooooowwly waking up to the realization that, like it or not, we do in fact need _something_ that vaguely resembles a military.
Have you seen the latest defence review? General Hillier seems to be the no-nonsense type in his dealings with Ottawa. _Hopefully_ some actual good will come from it. The need has finally been recognized it seems for new ships, aircraft, and for more personnel. But then again, there's the spectre of a federal election brewing and we both know how that usually turns out. 
All the good intentions in the world ain't worth a bucket of shit until we see the hulls rolling off the slips. I should be retired by then. 

But in the mean time, it looks like we may finally be able to get back to business of some sort. We've wasted enough time already.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/05/Chicoutimi_050505.html


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## Maestro (May 5, 2005)

Unfortunately, I haven't seen the latest Defence Review. But like I thrust politicians the way I do, I could bet 50$ that they're gonna buy "used" material. Just like they did with the submarines (Britain was ready to dump them) and the helicopters.

No offence mate, but your "race" is dying.

Now, most of _competent_ peoples who wants to work in the army either go in USA (how in the Hell is a Canadian able to enlist in the American army, I don't know. But I would like to know.), in UK or in the Foreign Legion. The Canadian army is *the* place where a competent rookie don't want to be.

By the way, if you're still in training to work in submarines, I wish you luck... You'll need it. Our submarines sinks... Eh, I mean "sucks".


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## FLYBOYJ (May 5, 2005)

I feel for you guys - when I was at Lockheed we were having the roll out for the CP-140, an Argus was brought down for the ceremony. I made a comment to one of the CAF guys about getting 18 brand new airplanes. He told me, "yea these will have to last us 100 years," now I know he wasn't kidding, and that was back in 79'!


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## Nonskimmer (May 5, 2005)

You'll get no arguments from me on the procurement process. Buying off-the-shelf cheap has been a Canadian tradition for years, and we've been buying the odd bit of used hardware since the 1950's. We've been losing a domestic production capability steadily over the years too, so it's almost to the point now where we _have_ to buy made-to-order or off-the-shelf. In the very near future, it'll be too late to do anything about that.  
The US has been fed up with us for years for not doing our part for North American defence, and who can blame them? Freeloading off of our neighbours is not a tradition I'm particularly proud of. No one in the Forces is.  The same holds true for NATO. We bring almost nothing to the table. 

The biggest problem we face with respect to recruitment has to do with what I was saying earlier. We tend to be viewed as anything but a military force. Many Canadians would rather we stuck to disaster relief - that's it. The present Canadian society has been reared by the rhetoric of the Pearson and Trudeau years, and have come to believe that we're some miraculous beacon of peace. We as a society view ourselves as being in a good cop/bad cop relationship with the US, and it's killing us!
We don't promote the Armed Forces in this country. There's practically no such thing as military pride anymore, and it's due entirely to the neglect and steady erosion we've been faced with since the late 50's/early 60's.

Maestro if you're serious about joining up in the US, I know it can be done. I'm not sure _how_ exactly, but I've known people to do it. Make some inquiries to US recruitment websites. I'm sure they could help to steer you in the right direction.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 5, 2005)

Hey if you guys need info on enlistment here, let me know, I'll gladly hit up a recruitment center.


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## Nonskimmer (May 5, 2005)

Thanks, but I'll stay here. 
Despite the hardships and the problems we face in the running of this little mob of ours, I'm still 100% Canuck.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 5, 2005)

Hey I'm with you my friend, although I'll always consider Canada my second country, I know where I really belong.


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## Maestro (May 6, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Maestro if you're serious about joining up in the US, I know it can be done. I'm not sure _how_ exactly, but I've known people to do it. Make some inquiries to US recruitment websites. I'm sure they could help to steer you in the right direction.



Yeah, it could be a good idea... If it doesn't works for me in Ontario for the Correctionnal Officer job, I'll surely make a try either in the UK or US army. (Being neighbour of the US, it would be cheaper for me to go to the USA.) I'll have to wait a little, though. I'll only know about the Correctionnal Officer job next winter... if I'm lucky.

I understand that you don't want to leave Canada, you're closer to retirement than I am.  

It's true that Canadian army is saw like a cop. I remember seeing rookies crying after knowing that Canada was going at war against Afghanistan. Man, a soldier is a KILLER, not a piss-keeper... Eh, I mean a _peace_keeper. Does it looks like I hate Blue Helmets ?  

I'll surely go on some recruitment web sites... I did it for the Royal Navy three years ago. Unfortunately, I was broke, too young for my father to let me go (I was 17) and the Recruitment Center refused to send information packages outside the UK.  

Think about it : I could have been piloting a Royal Navy Lynx over Afghanistan or been in the Royal Marines IN Afghanistan !  

Life is cruel...  

Anyway, I'm still broke, but now I'm 20 (I'll turn 21 next month). Then no one could stop me...  

US or UK ? I still don't know. I like UK and recruitment would surely be easier there, but I have not enough money to pay the trip there. I also like US and it is closer to me (so cheaper), but I heard that recruitment was hard as hell.

Anyway, I'll ask for informations to a US recruitment web site. We'll see how it will go...


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## Nonskimmer (May 6, 2005)

So then I guess the Vandoos (Royal 22e Régiment) is out of the question. 

A friend of mine used to be posted to CFB Valcartier and from all I've ever heard about them, the Vandoos make the other regiments look like choir boys. 
They're pretty insane I hear. I'd have thought you'd be right at home.


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## Medvedya (May 6, 2005)

Maestro said:


> easier there, but I have not enough money to pay the trip there.



This might sound a bit simplistic, but I think if you were serious about the British Army they'd give you a travel warrant to come over.

At least I _think_ they would, you'd have to ask.

This is what I found here http://www.army.mod.uk/

_How do I join the Army if I come from an overseas Commonwealth Country?

Due to the high volume of applications received from potential overseas applicants, the British Army is not accepting further applications till the 1st June 2005. This pause in recruiting may be extended.

If you have not found the answer you are looking for why not log into the Online Office? This is the Army Online Careers Office. You can log in to the chat room and talk with a serving British Army Soldier. The office is open Mon to Fri 1200-2200hrs and Sun 1200-2000hrs. Click on the link below._

Which is here....

http://www.army.mod.uk/careers/enquire/index.html


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## Nonskimmer (May 6, 2005)

If you were already a member of the Canadian Forces (not that I'm suggesting such a thing.  ) it might even be a little bit simpler.
Though I don't know of the exact channels one would take, as I've never bothered to look into it, I do know of fellas who have transferred directly to the British and Aussie navies, and vice versa. We have two or three Kippers in the Canadian Navy who came from the RN. 
It was pretty much a direct transfer, and I do know of at least two guys who left our navy to go and work for the RAN.

It can be done. I can only assume it would be similar for the Army.


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## Maestro (May 7, 2005)

Thank you for your help, guys. I'll have a look.

Concerning the Royal 22nd Regiment, it is "parked" right in my region. I know they have a Commando unit (Green Berets) but I wonder if they ever had an Airborne unit. I'll also have a look at this. If I can, I'll enlist and ask for a transfer to the British Army.

I also contacted a recruiting officer in USA yesterday. I'm still waiting for a reply.


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## Nonskimmer (May 7, 2005)

Woah, hold up! It may not be _quite_ that easy. If you join the Canadian Army it may be _possible_ that you could transfer to the British Army, but I don't think they make a habit of letting everyone go who applys. Also, we're in the process of trying to bolster our own numbers a bit right now, so I think it's doubtful that they'd let you go so easily.

By the way, all regular Canadian troops wear green berets. 
And yes, the Royal 22e have a jump company of paratroops. They're the ones with the maroon berets.


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## Medvedya (May 7, 2005)

Well, we have the Parachute Regiment here, but a word of caution, they're the kind of guys who _enjoy_ mashing their bare heads together to 'warm themselves up a bit!'


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## Nonskimmer (May 7, 2005)

Yeah, our guys are the same. Especially the french ones.


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## Medvedya (May 7, 2005)

Then there are the bootnecks.....

M.uscles A.re R.equired I.ntelligence N.ot E.ssential

The really bad news for prospective bad guys is that it's just not _obligatory_ to have a vast intellect either. 

Lots of them have plenty of muscles and _also_ can think up elaborate ways of introducing your intestines to daylight.


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## Nonskimmer (May 7, 2005)

Yeah, I don't know much about them but they sound like pleasant fellows.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 7, 2005)

Medvedya said:


> Then there are the bootnecks.....
> 
> M.uscles A.re R.equired I.ntelligence N.ot E.ssential
> 
> ...



Hey - I was at El Centro Naval Air Station In California about 6 weeks ago. El Centro is the winter home for the Blue Angeles. That was written in every bathorrm stall!


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## Medvedya (May 7, 2005)

It is a good one! Just don't expect to say it in a RM or USMC wardroom and expect to leave alive too!


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## Nonskimmer (May 7, 2005)

Or that of any Canadian Army regiment.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 7, 2005)

Medvedya said:


> It is a good one! Just don't expect to say it in a RM or USMC wardroom and expect to leave alive too!



Could always wear one of these!


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## cheddar cheese (May 7, 2005)

I have a friend whos expecting to join the Rolya Marines, ill tell him that


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## FLYBOYJ (May 7, 2005)

Here in the States....

The Army calls helicopters "choppers."

The Navy calls them "Heilos."

What do the Marines call them?

uh,uh,uh,uh,uh,uh,uh,uh,uh,uh,uh


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## Nonskimmer (May 7, 2005)

They don't call 'em jar heads for nuthin'.


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## FLYBOYJ (May 7, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> They don't call 'em Jar Heads for nuthin'.


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## Maestro (May 8, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Woah, hold up! It may not be _quite_ that easy. If you join the Canadian Army it may be _possible_ that you could transfer to the British Army, but I don't think they make a habit of letting everyone go who applys. Also, we're in the process of trying to bolster our own numbers a bit right now, so I think it's doubtful that they'd let you go so easily.
> 
> By the way, all regular Canadian troops wear green berets.
> And yes, the Royal 22e have a jump company of paratroops. They're the ones with the maroon berets.



I know, That's why I'll make sure I can _before_ joining them.

By the way, I'm not an expert in Canadian Army uniforms, but the berets, aren't they black for regular troops, green for commandos, and maroon for paratroops ?


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## Nonskimmer (May 8, 2005)

No, the regular fellas wear the green ones. That includes the infantry and the support battalions. Black is worn by the armour crewmen (tanks, APC's, etc.) and maroon by the paratroops.

For the commando companies, it depends. I've seen green and maroon.


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## plan_D (May 9, 2005)

In Britain, as far as I can remember, Marines wear Green, Paras Maroon, Regulars Green, S.A.S and S.B.S Black, MPs Red and then there's the RAF Blue. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's it.


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## Nonskimmer (May 9, 2005)

Don't the armoured boys (and girls?) wear black also? I know they used to. Our system stems from yours, after all.


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## plan_D (May 9, 2005)

I could go next door and ask that loser 'cos he apparently has something to do with the tanks in the Army. He probably cleans them or something. 


My dad says they do. Since he served in the British forces for 24 years, I'll take his word for it. 

Anywho, yes your system did come from ours. As did most ex-British colonies. Have you seen the Indian Armed Forces!? The uniform still looks like 50s Brit stuff.


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## Maestro (May 9, 2005)

Okay, I just received a reply to the letter I E-mailed to the US Army. Here it goes :

"_Thank you for your interest in the United States Army.

Unfortunately, you must be an American citizen or lawfully admitted to the US for permanent residency. The Immigration and Naturalization Service can provide information; go to http://uscis.gov/graphics/. Army regulations prohibit us from assisting or sponsoring you in to the United States. Once you have an I-551 (green card) or a document reflecting “processing for an I-551”, you can pursue enlistment.



Good luck!

Respectfully,

Belinda Ryman

Cyber Recruiter

United States Army Recruiting Command_"


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## Nonskimmer (May 9, 2005)

Well, that only makes sense.


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## Maestro (May 10, 2005)

Yeah... I've made a little search using Google concerning Canadian reserve paratroops companies (to start smoothly  ). It appears that the lone reserve airborne company is based in Trenton.


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## Nonskimmer (May 10, 2005)

Trenton isn't _that_ far away from where you are now, is it?


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## Maestro (May 10, 2005)

Well, if I'm correct, Trenton is in Ontario and I'm a little north from Québec City. It takes at least four hours to reach Ontario border and an other while to reach Trenton. So no, it's quite far.


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## Nonskimmer (May 10, 2005)

Trenton is about halfway between Toronto and Kingston, in southern Ontario. Roughly speaking, it's probably about the same distance you would travel to get to Halifax from where you are. That's as the crow flies. 

But if that's where they are then you really don't have much choice, if you want to do it.


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## Maestro (May 10, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Trenton is about halfway between Toronto and Kingston, in southern Ontario. Roughly speaking, it's probably about the same distance you would travel to get to Halifax from where you are. That's as the crow flies.
> 
> But if that's where they are then you really don't have much choice, if you want to do it.



Well, _if_ I got the Correctionnal Officer job in Ontario _and if_ I'm in lack of money, _may be_ I'll enlist there.  

Otherwise it'll be in the regular forces somewhere else. Still in the Airborne, though. Hey, if I have to get killed, I want it to be in combat operation, NOT in peacekeeping.

That remember me of the Sierra-Leonne operation a while ago. What was the score ? The first night, British Airborne killed 13 Rebels, didn't lost any.

On the morning just before that fight, a British soldier was interviewed by an English channel (here in America) and said : "_When I went down of the aircraft, I had both of my hands and both of my legs. Now, because of my little mate (he slapped his .50cal machine gun) I will make it back in one piece._" That's the way I like to hear someone talk !


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## Nonskimmer (May 10, 2005)

Right on! 



Maestro said:


> Otherwise it'll be in the regular forces somewhere else. Still in the Airborne, though.


Keep in mind that guys don't join straight into the Airborne. You begin as a basic grunt like everyone else, and then you have to apply and be accepted for jump training. It's like that for us, the Brits, _and_ the Americans. Just so you're aware.


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## Medvedya (May 10, 2005)

Are there no kind of local part time reserves near you now, so you can 'test the water' before jumping in?


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## Maestro (May 10, 2005)

Thanks for the info, NS. I didn't know that.

Well Med, like I said before, the lone reserve paratroop company is in Ontario. So it is impossible for me to be in *that branch*.

The lone reserve company in the region of Québec are :

6e Régiment d'artillerie de campagne, based at Lévis, Québec City and Montmagny

10 Field Engineer Squadron, based at Québec City

There is also : Les Voltigeurs de Québec (Dismounted Infantry), but I don't know where they are based.

All other regiments are regular forces.

Informations were taken here :
 http://www.answers.com/topic/land-force-quebec-area?hl=royal&hl=22e&hl=régiment


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## plan_D (May 11, 2005)

You know that was the British Paras and SAS that slaughtered those rebels in Sierra Leone!?


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## Maestro (May 11, 2005)

Well, I know it was the Airborne, but I didn't know about the SAS.


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## plan_D (May 12, 2005)

Yes, the SAS was there too. West Side Boys didn't know what hit them.


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## lesofprimus (May 15, 2005)

I was in Sierra Leone doin things I cant talk about... Nasty little place.......

Somolia on the otherhand, was simply pathetic...... The people, the air, the beach, the heat, the sharks, the flies, the scorpions......

Everything there was just aching to kill u... I saw several things in Somolia that today, if revealed, would get jail time... People were DESPERATE for Intell..... 

You know what???? They got it alright....


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## Maestro (May 15, 2005)

lesofprimus said:


> I was in Sierra Leone doin things I cant talk about... Nasty little place.......
> 
> Somolia on the otherhand, was simply pathetic...... The people, the air, the beach, the heat, the sharks, the flies, the scorpions......
> 
> ...



For the Sierra Leone things you can't talk about, you mean that it is too hard for you to talk about it or that it could gets you into trouble if you talked about it ? (I.E. Secret Operations.)

You're not forced to answer, I only asked that because I heard (and saw at the TV) that Rebels cut peoples' hands off only because their governement used the slogan : "Use your hand to vote" for the elections.


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## lesofprimus (May 16, 2005)

No Maestro, it is becasue OpSec rules are still in place... Those Ops are still classified... I saw some things there that a human being should never see...

Ill tell u this, there are alot less Rebels over there because of SEAL Team 2... (and others too)


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## Maestro (May 16, 2005)

Oh, right. Thanks for pointing that out.


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## Nonskimmer (Jun 4, 2005)

I thought this article appropriate for this thread. 
Four words: WHO THE HELL CARES?

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/06/04/guantanamo.quran/index.html


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## evangilder (Jun 4, 2005)

Indeed NS. Oh, so the poor little terrorist got his holy book wet. Boo-fuck-ing-HOO. My God, this political correct nonsense is going to be the death of us all! Maybe we should have just shot all those guys and been done with it. Cold? Maybe, but this is getting ridiculous.


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## lesofprimus (Jun 4, 2005)

I didnt make a very good interrogator... I think it lasted a whole 2 minutes, if that... I ended up butt-ending this Iraqi cause he was laughing about killing these 2 innocent kids....

If the world thinks that pouring water on a holy book is soooo very bad, I'd be incarcerated for 20 years.....


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## evangilder (Jun 4, 2005)

I hear ya, Les. There was this smiley little goober that the spooks were interrogating. He kept smiling even as they threatened him. One of the guys that was with us rifle butted the guy. No more smiling. Geez, knocked most of his teeth halfway down his intestines. Then *I* had to fish the goobers teeth out of his throat because I was the friggin medic. Medic was my secondary duty, after radio repair. I guess they figured I didn't have enough to do, so make me do that too. Hilarious, because I used to be the most squeamish guy there was. Used to be anyway.


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## FLYBOYJ (Jun 4, 2005)

As I'm writing this I have Headline News on and they're making a big deal about the soldiers at Gitmo "Kicking the Koran" and urine "slashing" on it. GIVE ME A FU#KIN BREAK!

These sh*theads are prisoners and their trying to hide behind a religion to justify their stupidity! I'd feed them accordingly (a large diet of pork and water).

HEY - That sounds like a new game! "Kick the Koran."


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## evangilder (Jun 4, 2005)

I agree, FBJ. We are oh so wrong for kicking a Koran, but they aren't when they blow people up or behead them. Maybe we should let all of those people that are complaining about the treatment that is happening at Gitmo spend some time in a Saudi jail.


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## Blackwatch (Sep 14, 2005)

gentleman, the reason why is that communist 'liberals' are currently in charge of Canada...they ALWAYS hate the military and are loathsome of them also....I have served with MANY Canadians....they are good people, funny and generous to a fault...the ones I know genunely are sorry for you when some misfortune happens to you...the current Otttawa government does NOT reflect the Canadians I know and have known...hell, the US Army awarded a bunch of Bronze Stars with Valor to Canadians snipers that saved a American unit...and damn near hung a Amercian pilot that stupidly dropped bomb into a unit of Canadians...


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 14, 2005)

It's a Liberal country these days, I'm afraid. Since the first election of Pierre Trudeau back in 1968, the country has been spiralling steadily into the toilet with little opportunity for recovery. I honestly fear that by this point, the damage is irreversible, or very nearly. There are so many wrongs with our very outlook as a nation. Our outlook on ourselves, on our neighbours (namely the USA), and on our place in the world. We've become a largely deluded society about a _lot_ of things, and I fear that it'll take nothing less than a huge boot in the ass to set us moving in a more sensible direction. Underneath it all, this country is barely hanging on.


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## Maestro (Sep 14, 2005)

Everything I'm gonna say is sad, but it's only the truth.

We are doomed. The lone way to get out of this Mofiosi led Liberal country is that something major happen.

- British Colombia and Alberta are two very rich provinces.
- Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario are three "middle-classed" provinces.
- Québec WOULD be a "middle-classed" province IF it was NOT composed of a bunch of national-socialists (that deserve to be called "FASCIST", because they are). Because of this, we must class it in the "poor" provinces.
- New-Brunswick, Nova-Scotia and New-Foundland are three poor provinces.

We all know that the "key of élections" is located in both Ontario and Québec (a majority of citizens are living there). Ontario is "sold" to the Liberal Party and Québec is "sold" to the Bloc Québécois (wich is participating to the élections only in the Province of Québec). All other provinces joined together are not strong enough to put an other party to the power.

We also all know that some Québekers want to become independent and that BC and Saskatchewan are starting to think that they should ALSO leave.

By knowing that, there is two choices :

- Kick Québec out of the country to keep the rich provinces within the confederation. By doing so, Canada would remain a "rich" country, we would see a true democracy again and kick the Liberals out.

- Keep Québec in the confederation, that will leave the Liberals at the head of the country but piss the rich provinces off. BC and Alberta will leave the country and either join together and form a new country or simply join up with the USA. Québec will then leave Canada and become a poor but independent country. Leaving three "middle-classed" provinces and three poor provinces on their own.

Wich script do you prefer ? I prefer the first one... But first, let me find a job outside the Province of Québec, okay ?


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 14, 2005)

Everybody always forgets poor little PEI.  "The land of Anne." And the territories are just kinda...there.

One very major problem we've long had is a lack of national unity. We have no actual culture to speak of, because we're too busy promoting this cultural mosaic crap! We're everything and nothing, and everyone's going in a different direction.


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## Maestro (Sep 14, 2005)

Nonskimmer said:


> Everybody always forgets poor little PEI.  "The land of Anne." And the territories are just kinda...there.



Well, I know the PEI is an independent province, but I always counted it as a part of Nova-Scotia. But if you want, we can put it with the Territories... in the "very poor province/territories" section. But it wouldn't change a lot in my theory.

It's hard to be unified when you have so many differences and that there is a provincial gouvernment (Québec... AGAIN !) that is inventing more differences.

We got three major groups within Canada : French, English and Native. Everyone running in a different direction. How in the hell was New-Brunswick able to sastify all of them as Trudeau really wished it ? It's a mystery.

Canada should be as New-Brunswick is. *This* is a unified province. English has some bases in French and French has some bases in English. Everyone can be understood by everyone. Only try to ask your way (in French) to a cop in Toronto, or in English in Québec City. I wish you luck.


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 14, 2005)

I agree with most of what you say, except that the list of major groups is growing at an alarming rate. It's becoming less about language and more about race. Racial diversity is just fine, but in Canada it gets back to the "cultural mosaic" I mentioned. For example, we have such an Asian presence here, especially in BC but it's quite large elsewhere too. Ontario in particular. They practice everything as they would in the old country, and we let them. It's all very politically correct but it's actually fractionalizing this country, not unifying it. We need to follow the melting pot concept much more closely than we do.

That's not limited to Asians by any stretch. That was just the example I chose. If people wish to settle in our country, regardless of race or cultural origin, they should be made to follow the grain of Canadian culture. We don't really have one, because we've allowed ourselves to become too diverse in terms of cultural practices.


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## Blackwatch (Sep 15, 2005)

gentlemen, a very wise college professor told me once "NEVER give up power that you are unwilling to give up"....there are millions of Canadians that think, feel and want what you want...remember that....you are never without options, or a way out....sometimes you have to search for it, but there is always a way....We Americans have problems, hell, too many problems, at times....but millions of Americans deal with what they can deal with and not sweat the rest....BUT we also watch, listen and learn....We hold our public officals highly accountable for their actions...like you, we are a Republic, not a Democracy...there is a difference....find a legel way to hold the political leaders accountable and MAKE IT STICK....like you, MOST of our problems are in cities, not in rural areas....IS Canada worth fighting for? I think so....but I also think if you are not very cafeful, you will have a civil war....don't think it can't happen there, because it easily can....Don't let the extremists and communists (liberals) split you up...., they are using your own laws against you....so use the law against them...STARTING at the local level....

Canada and the US are tied togather (damn, you Canadians have some of the prettist women in the world!!!)....as is Mexico....we need you....find the courage and think, and never quit....and remember, like here, not all citizens want you to have a country...they want want power....


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## plan_D (Sep 15, 2005)

I disagree, Canada does not have some of the hottest women in the world.


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## Blackwatch (Sep 15, 2005)

ohh???


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 15, 2005)

He's clearly high or something. 

I entirely agree that Canada and the US have _extremely_ strong links and more Canadians, and perhaps a few Americans, need to realize that. Without the United States of America, Canada would cease to be. Or rather, what remained wouldn't be anything like the Canada we know. Hell, we're practically the same people for the most part, and it irks me when I hear countrymen of mine bitch and whine about the United States. In many areas, we need to be following your example more closely. All too often however, political decisions are made on the basis of "being different from the Americans.", whether it works or not. Crazy.


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## plan_D (Sep 15, 2005)

You all look the same, NS. Don't try and hide it. And when you're producing the likes of Alanis Morisette...I cannot think that Canada produces good looking women. Oh ...wait a second...I'd do ...wait, I can't remember her name that's how hot she is.


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## Maestro (Sep 15, 2005)

Well, I can name you hot girls... some hotter than others, but I can. In no partucular order :

Elisha Cuthbert (known as Kim Bauer in the TV serie "24") - Born in Alberta
Pamela "Air Bags" Anderson - Born in British Colombia (Well, she was hot when she was around 25-30. Now she looks like if she had some bad surgery in her face...)
Shania Twain (country signer) - Born in Ontario

Then I could name several Playmates... But I did it before in an other thread.


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## Maestro (Sep 15, 2005)

Blackwatch said:


> but I also think if you are not very cafeful, you will have a civil war....



I thought about that frequently. That *will* happen if Québec become Independent. Because Québec won't become a Democracy or a Republic under a PQist gouvernment... It *will* become a *Dictatorship* !


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## plan_D (Sep 15, 2005)

Pamela Anderson wasn't hot, she was fake. I'll give you the other two though.


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## Maestro (Sep 15, 2005)

Well, it all depends on the point of view... Personnally, I think she was not that bad when she started her career (around 25 years old). If you see a picture of her when she posed for Playboy in 1990, you'll see what I mean.

But now (she is around 40), she looks like she had some bad surgery in her face... Her nose looks... weird.

But I won't argue that she is fake... At least a part of her. That's why I called her : "Pamela _"Air Bags"_ Anderson".


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## Blackwatch (Sep 16, 2005)

Yep 'ole Pammy will never drowned....and some archeologist 4,000 years from now will wonder what the hell they were????


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## Blackwatch (Sep 16, 2005)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." -- Abraham Lincoln 

Freedom is NEVER free....all it takes for freedom to fail is good, brave and violent warriors to do nothing....


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## evangilder (Sep 16, 2005)

Good statement, and very true.


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 16, 2005)

In that case, Canada's days are truly numbered. We excel at doing nothing. Absolutely nothing. Yet we still see ourselves in some past, glorious, "what should have been" kind of light. A state of denial.


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## Blackwatch (Sep 16, 2005)

bull****, I know Canadians....I have NEVER met a Canadian male that didn't have hair on his a** or the heart of a lion....

you have to stand for something or you will stand for nothing.

'course, I am just a ole' country boy from the hills of Appalachia too....my opinion is probably good fertilzer for a garden....I am not smarter, I just don't know when to quit or give up....


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 16, 2005)

Heh. I hear what you're saying believe me, and I wholeheartedly agree. Problem is, not enough do or are willing to stand united on it. As people, we _will_ stand up for ourselves when tested. You push us and we'll push back, there's no question. But as a nation there's little pride left. It's not only reflected in the military (what's left), but in just about every department. Education, industry, the arts, health care, name it. The years of liberalism have really taken a toll.

On the provincial level there tends to be a real sense of identity and bonding among the people, but we can't seem to get our act together as a country. As I said, we're divided. Not just Québec vs. everyone else, but east vs. west, west vs. central, central vs. everyone. We don't have a strong sense of kinship or identity amongst ourselves and no clear goals. But so many will act as if nothing is wrong. We're kidding ourselves.


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## Maestro (Sep 16, 2005)

That's because everyone wish to put his own system to the parliament...

West want a US-like gouvernment.
Ontario want to stay as it is.
Québec wants a bunch of pinkos to run the country... Worst, they want their *own* country.
New-Brunswick is a little more on the right than Québec but it is working for free health cares like in Québec.
East can't live on it's own so they need anyone that could help them.

Conclusion... We're screwed up.


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 16, 2005)

As my dad likes to say, we in the east have the most inept politicians of the lot. The people out this way are fighters, you'd better believe that. Just fire up a Bluenoser or a Newf and see what you get. Yet we seem to pick the worst dumb f*cks as premiers! I'll give Danny Williams credit though, he's got nuts! He's standin' up for Newfoundland and Labrador like a man possessed! 
John Hamm on the other hand.  Only John Savage was a worse Nova Scotian premier, and what a helluva mess he made. In my opinion, the best premier in the country is Ralph Klein of Alberta. He knows how to manage things. Alberta is the wealthiest province for a reason. Things get done and done right.


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## Blackwatch (Sep 16, 2005)

then it will be a attack then because Al-Queda wants your asses too...not just the US dead, but Canada too...many will die because the politicans will wring their hands, like here, and it will be the everday people in Canada that will save your buns....


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## Nonskimmer (Sep 16, 2005)

Hence the big boot in the ass I was talking about earlier. I hear ya man. Maybe it'll wake a few people out of their deluded fog. I don't think it'll take anything less to set us straight, I honestly don't. It really is sad.


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2005)

Blackwatch said:


> 'course, I am just a ole' country boy from the hills of Appalachia too....my opinion is probably good fertilzer for a garden....I am not smarter, I just don't know when to quit or give up....



Where ya from? I used to live in Hendersonville N. Carolina. Well outside of it at Bat Cave and Lake Lure. Beautiful country.


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## Blackwatch (Sep 17, 2005)

S.E.Ohio, real close to the Ohio River....


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 17, 2005)

Oh okay I was thinking that you were talking more about N. Carolina or Tennessee.


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## Blackwatch (Sep 18, 2005)

must have come out in my typing I spent years in N.C. ~smiles~


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## DerAdlerIstGelandet (Sep 18, 2005)

No its just when I think of Appalacia I think think the Great Smokies in N. Carolina and Tennessee.


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