1\48 Do 335 A12

Good stuff, looks like it's going to turn out well. Would the paint finish be faded, given the relative newness of the aircraft? Just a thought.

I am wondering about the underside. When the Do-335 in Udvar-Hazy was restored by the Germans it recieved a RLM-76 for the color.

meatloaf109 said:

I am wondering about the underside. When the Do-335 in Udvar-Hazy was restored by the Germans it recieved a RLM-76 for the color.

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There are a few shots of 335's which clearly show the lower surfaces in NMF and the panels are different shades. had the aircraft gone into full production it may well have had the 76 lower surfaces, however as with most other late war fighters there is a distinct probability that a good portion of the lower surfaces would have remained unpainted.

good questions , Airframes you are very right that the plane was pretty new so i doubt the paint would be very faded, but what i plan to do wont make it very weathered , it may sound like it but hopefully you will see soon.no real chipping visible. minor fading. the reason i want to do some slight variation in it is because,wrk # 111 and 112 where produced, used , modified slightly re designated A-12s. When i finished this model before it looked good with a fairly new looking paint job(you know not so thinned or lightened) so im gonna try to stick pretty close to that. Luftwaffe planes are wierd they had a semi gloss finish that you could see yourself in when brand new but it seemed to weather away fast . I have pics of Fw-190 D-9s where you could see things reflecting off the sheen it was so shiny, then i have pictures of Bf-109 K-4s that seem to have paint that you could almost see through in areas like beyond an oxidized finish ... im sure paint quality probably took a dive towards the end of the war. i know very little about technical paint info but from what i understand it was a one coat formula (maybe weathering fast?) not sure if it was coated with a clear coat or built in finish like a semi gloss? Even the Ar 234 B-2 yellow M black T was a fairly new plane but looked like it was put the wringer in pictures very weathered for a year or so in use!

Meatloaf the pictures i have of this plane show very wide variations in color from panel to panel leading me and many decal manufacturers to different mixes of bare metal. Tamiya really dropped the ball here they show it painted up like it came out of the factory even ignoring the metal engine panel cover which stands out like a sore thumb! the actual cowling and cowl flaps to me do not change a great deal from picture to picture so i believe they are RLM 02 . they may have been metal but im fairly certain i will be accurate in when its all said and done.
Thanks for the interest guys. small update coming soon!

I learn something every day!

Here she is with the RLM 82 sprayed . (rlm 83 modelmasters, they have it backwards so the light green is 83, dark is 82 which is why i tend to say the wrong color all the time) I tried to leave some of the areas where the RLM 81 is going very thin so i could still utilize the preshading . It looks fairly un even but i made sure to hit all the spots that would stay light green pretty thick . When the RLM 81 is on i think i will have the look im going for. minus some minor weathering , exhaust and a wash for panelines.Heres a few pics i think ill let it dry a day or so before i do the RLM 81 splinter. i also have a small bit of work to do on the rear seam towards the vertical stabilizer , thank god its going to be RLM 81 in that area.

There are a few photos of this aircraft (full W.Nr. 240112) in German hands,a few in US hands and several in British hands before its fatal crash in January 1946.

I have no idea what the underside colour was! I'm pretty confident that the nosewheel doors were natural metal so why not the rest of the underside? There's a picture of it at Oberpfaffenhofen,taken just after the arrival of the Americans and in which it is still in its original markings which might support that conjecture.

There is a jeep parked under the port wing and a car by the nose wheel in that photo which give a good idea of just how big the thing was!

I think that's looking like a fine model so far,looking forward to the end result.

Cheers

Steve

Thanks Steve, I agree nosewheel doors appear natural metal , as does the weapons bay doors. but im fairly certain all the shading variation you see on the underside of the wings is due to it not being painted. Some Do 335s had RLM 65 bottoms. I painted control surfaces 76 just because if they came from a separate factory late in the war they may have very well have gotten painted this prior to use. And from what ive been reading i figured i would provide a link to a great although confusing article. Ill try to sum up some of what i gathered. Depending on what year and where the particular Do 335 was built it could sport different hues of 81 , 82, 83 .... the stories of these colors is always confusing but seems that some of the first Do335s would be the darker green RLM "83" with RLM "81" brown . Also possible variations 70\71 mixed with 81\82 as paint stocks where used up and depleted in favor of newer colors on early variants. not that this is anything new but it will give you an idea to study any photo reference you might have if you plan on building a Do335. Later Do 335s seem to be the bright green aka dunkelgrun aka hellgrun "82" with "81" braunviolet being the darker color . problem is both 82 and 83 are sometimes called dunkelgrun or just grun which doesnt really help. also from what i read 81 could be a variety of hues depending on manufacturer ... Me 262 RLM 81s might vary from Me 163s, and Do335s... lastly Do 335s sometimes went through 2 or 3 different factories on the way to being finished which could lead to differently painted parts. this has pretty much all been covered before but i figure its a starting point for anyone just looking into accurate colors for late war luftwaffe. There are several articles on late war luftwaffe camo if you look very good info that will help when doing a late war 190 , 109, etc. to sum up my babbling early Do335 could be 70\71, 70\82, 71\81 (photos would show low contrasting colors) mid build could be 82\83 , 83\81 (would take a good eye to make calls from black and white photos). and very late war could be 81\82 (photos would show decent to high contrast in colors) i just call 82 bright green, 83 dark... it makes it easier Camouflage of the Dornier Do 335: A Critical Re-evaluation by Michael Ullman

whats the etiquette for posting links? is it frowned upon if its to another modeling site? also what about posting pics of airplanes where the pictures are readily found on search engines...? if it can be found on google several different times do you think its safe to post examples of it? been really wanting to post some pictures of certain things. if it seems like it came from one source or scanned from a book im sure the answer is its copyrighted but what about really common images?

I agree. If I was building your model I'd be doing unpainted undersurface too.
Ullmann's analysis is pretty good. There is only one point I would quibble and that is the underside colour. He quite rightly quotes Sammelmitteilung Nr 2 of 15th August 1944 deleting RLM 65 and assumes that Dornier thereafter moved to RLM 76 but there is not much evidence for that.The 1973 inspection of the fuselage from the A-0 240102,VG+PH, now forming part of the composite aircraft on display in the US is debateable to say the least. There are some good colour photos of the fuselage,parked outside shed 22 at Silver Hill and in a pretty sorry state,taken in the '70s,which are certainly not conclusive.
Dornier's aircraft production was a commercial enterprise,not a patriotic duty, and as a manufacturer of bomber aircraft they may well have had stocks of RLM 65 to use up. D.(Luft)T.2335 A-1,the Do 335 handbook,issued after the Sammelmitteilung still lists the underside colour as RLM 65. It is at least possible that they continued to use this on various pre-production aircraft. Had the aircraft entered production,entailing BAL acceptance,then Dornier may have had to make the change to RLM 76 as per the earlier instruction.
Cheers
Steve

Great info guys and the model's looking good Jason. I never rely on Tamiya's profiles and paint info and you're obviously using better info in your build. Looking forward to seeing what version of 81 you're going to use.

Great looking build and info guys!

Looks good so far!

Hey guys heres what i got done tonight \ this morning. Masked off and sprayed the RLM 81 (model master crimea, i really like it and seems pretty accurate) the only problem i had was i believe the last bit of RLM 81 i was using up before i got into my new one , had acetone in it. it really wanted to dry fast and came out ultra flat, i already started buffing it after i dried i think after i do the panel wash and future she will look spot on. Im still not sure if im going to post shade this model at all. i think panel lines will look good just black\brown washed. Ill include a pic of actual 112 and a factory unfinished DO 335 where people unfamiliar with late war luftwaffe can see what we are talking about, with all the paint and factory jumping. This A12 had painted vert stabs, which appear very low contrast colors, im guessing 81,83 . Im hoping im pretty close with my choice 81 , 82 for my trainer but it wont kill me if im wrong i had to make a choice and go. Looks like more contrast in #112. Panel wash and decals will be coming soon, then i jump back to parts that will be easily broke off and canopies , then a light flat coat.

you can kinda see from the one pic of 112 that the paint was pretty beat as far as sheen is concerned. only really weathered with exhaust stains.

Your third photo is the one I referred to earlier.
I reckon that is probably an unpainted underside and just look how big the darned thing is !

Very nice looking model so far.

Cheers

Steve

Im disgusted at how plain it looks but like on most models at this stage it will come to life after weathering and markings I hope. Thanks Steve! Is that your staircase or an ad?

sturmbock44 said:

Thanks Steve! Is that your staircase or an ad?

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Since I have no idea what you are referring to it must be an ad which I can't see

The wheels of the universe turn in mysterious ways !

Cheers

Steve

Lol im signed in so I didnt think it showed ads. It had a random pic of a staircase in the middle of your post with no text. I finish houses I was about to say good job haha ill.be trying to spiff this thing up for another update

Great job Jason. I'm sure it will come together more once the decals go on and you get a bit of weathering on.

Those ads happen to all members now, signed in or not. There's a recent thread on this and in there are some links for Adbloc software that gets rid of them.