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1/48 P-47 Razorback - Tamiya Kit
- Thread starter dneid
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Some of a white paint applied with a very thin brush ... and the problem is sorted out.
- Thread starter
- #83
dneid
Staff Sergeant
Good Point, Wojtek! Thanks!!!
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
All P-47s operating in the northern ETO, that is, from the UK, and then the Continent, had an extra 'star and bar' under the port wing. This, like the white nose band and fin and tail stripes, was a recognition feature, to avoid confusion with the FW190, as the 'Jug' was the only allied radial-engine fighter in theatre, and, in the case of 9th Air Force aircraft, was hope to be an extra insurance against 'friendly' ground fire.
Initially, the extra 'star and bar' was over-sized - very large indeed, with the blue disc covering complete wing chord, and were, as far as I know, applied at the Base Air Depot in the UK. Eventually, the extra marking was painted the same size as that on the starboard wing and, by late war, those aircraft in bare metal just arriving with units, had the extra marking omitted.
Markings on the upper wings were standard, that is, port wing only.
When 'Group colours' were added to the nose - red for the 56th FG - and eventually, in some units, Squadron colours, from, February 1944, the white ID bands on fin/rudder and tail planes was painted over, and the fresh paint was normally seen as a darker shade against the original paint, which weathered rapidly in the British weather (we don't have a climate in the UK, only weather!). This can't always be seen clearly in some photos, especially considering the variations in printing and reproduction, but the very lack of the white bands, where previously the same aircraft had them, would mean they had been over-painted, resulting in at least a slight tonal difference.
Initially, the extra 'star and bar' was over-sized - very large indeed, with the blue disc covering complete wing chord, and were, as far as I know, applied at the Base Air Depot in the UK. Eventually, the extra marking was painted the same size as that on the starboard wing and, by late war, those aircraft in bare metal just arriving with units, had the extra marking omitted.
Markings on the upper wings were standard, that is, port wing only.
When 'Group colours' were added to the nose - red for the 56th FG - and eventually, in some units, Squadron colours, from, February 1944, the white ID bands on fin/rudder and tail planes was painted over, and the fresh paint was normally seen as a darker shade against the original paint, which weathered rapidly in the British weather (we don't have a climate in the UK, only weather!). This can't always be seen clearly in some photos, especially considering the variations in printing and reproduction, but the very lack of the white bands, where previously the same aircraft had them, would mean they had been over-painted, resulting in at least a slight tonal difference.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Good stuff my friend, and excellent examples of the over-sized, very large star and bar. Note that their large size means that the inboard bar goes 'under' the stores pylon, unlike the insignia under the starboard wing, where the inner bar stops just short of the pylon. The over-sized national insignia marking was introduced on the P-47C, in early 1943, even before the 'bars' were added to the national insignia.
Eventually, the extra national insignia for ETO aircraft was applied at the factories, and painted in 'standard' size, the same dimensions as that on the starboard wing, although again slightly larger than the 'standard' for single-engine fighters such as the P-51, and 'Gabby's' aircraft has the equal-sized markings.
Eventually, the extra national insignia for ETO aircraft was applied at the factories, and painted in 'standard' size, the same dimensions as that on the starboard wing, although again slightly larger than the 'standard' for single-engine fighters such as the P-51, and 'Gabby's' aircraft has the equal-sized markings.
- Thread starter
- #89
dneid
Staff Sergeant
Hey, Guys,
Ok, decals are on. Man, this one had a ton of stencils. But, everything is on. I am going to let everything setup overnight. I still need to add the overpainting of the white stripes with OD and I need to go back and paint in the segmentation of the ID lettering.
My next dilema is the underwing stores. I would sure like to have a pair of bombs under the wings with a centerline fuel tank. However, the 56th flew predominantly bomber escort missions during 1943. My history of the 8th Air Force indicates that the fighters were not given the ok to get down and dirty with ground attack until after either late 1943 or early 1944. Given that, I am not sure about the bombs. So, I am planning on tanks on each wing and an empty centerline for now. I am looking through my few references to verify that dual, 108 gal, paper tanks are accurate. If anyone has any other ideas, please sound off. I also ordered a set of 1 piece, 108 gal, paper tanks from true details. I just could not get the seams on the kit tanks to seal up without destroying the banding. So, I need to get those in this week and painted.
Lastly, all those damned fiddly bits. Need to get the main gear assembled with brakes lines added, maybe add a touch more detail in the main wells (not too sure on that one though). Antenna, clean the mask fluid off the wing tip lights, do whatever weathering I am planning on (not too heavy handed), interior green behind the headrest, install the gun sight, unmask the canopy, final touch up (mostly various nav lights), and final sealing coat (planning on a semi matte for Gabby's bird). Now, one last question for you all with killer references..... looking back through the pics Terry and Wojtek posted, I just cannot see a clear aerial wire from the rudder to the fuselage. I think I see what could be a whip type aerial in one pic that Wojtek posted (2nd post, 3rd pic). Any feedback on this?
All in all, this has been an absolute delight of a kit to build. It is not cheap, but it is a true dream to build. Once I am back to work, I am planning on adding 2-4 more to the stack. Is the bubble top just as beautiful a build as the razorback? My sole complaint is the size of the injection points for some pieces (drop tanks for one) and all the damned stencils! Speaking of stencils/decals, is it my imagination or are these decals considerably thinner than other (older) Tamiya kits? The stencils sure seemed thinner than the F4U's for GB21 and those on the P-51B that I did last year.
Pics:
Ok, decals are on. Man, this one had a ton of stencils. But, everything is on. I am going to let everything setup overnight. I still need to add the overpainting of the white stripes with OD and I need to go back and paint in the segmentation of the ID lettering.
My next dilema is the underwing stores. I would sure like to have a pair of bombs under the wings with a centerline fuel tank. However, the 56th flew predominantly bomber escort missions during 1943. My history of the 8th Air Force indicates that the fighters were not given the ok to get down and dirty with ground attack until after either late 1943 or early 1944. Given that, I am not sure about the bombs. So, I am planning on tanks on each wing and an empty centerline for now. I am looking through my few references to verify that dual, 108 gal, paper tanks are accurate. If anyone has any other ideas, please sound off. I also ordered a set of 1 piece, 108 gal, paper tanks from true details. I just could not get the seams on the kit tanks to seal up without destroying the banding. So, I need to get those in this week and painted.
Lastly, all those damned fiddly bits. Need to get the main gear assembled with brakes lines added, maybe add a touch more detail in the main wells (not too sure on that one though). Antenna, clean the mask fluid off the wing tip lights, do whatever weathering I am planning on (not too heavy handed), interior green behind the headrest, install the gun sight, unmask the canopy, final touch up (mostly various nav lights), and final sealing coat (planning on a semi matte for Gabby's bird). Now, one last question for you all with killer references..... looking back through the pics Terry and Wojtek posted, I just cannot see a clear aerial wire from the rudder to the fuselage. I think I see what could be a whip type aerial in one pic that Wojtek posted (2nd post, 3rd pic). Any feedback on this?
All in all, this has been an absolute delight of a kit to build. It is not cheap, but it is a true dream to build. Once I am back to work, I am planning on adding 2-4 more to the stack. Is the bubble top just as beautiful a build as the razorback? My sole complaint is the size of the injection points for some pieces (drop tanks for one) and all the damned stencils! Speaking of stencils/decals, is it my imagination or are these decals considerably thinner than other (older) Tamiya kits? The stencils sure seemed thinner than the F4U's for GB21 and those on the P-51B that I did last year.
Pics:
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Don't forget the aircraft is depicted as of February, 1944, not 1943.
At this time, escort and sweeps were still being flown, although by May, as with most Fighter Groups, some ground-attack missions were flown, preparing for D-Day, in between escort missions.
The 56th didn't like the pylons under the wings and, when not needed, they were known to have actually removed them, in order to reduce drag. However, on escort missions, drop-tanks were fitted. Depending on requirements, this might be a single tank on the center-line, with either empty or removed wing pylons, or a tank under each wing, with the center line 'clean'.
The three main types of tank are known to have been used - the 108 gal steel tank (smooth, grey-painted), the 108 gal 'paper' tank (ribbed, silver doped), and the 'flat' tank. The wing pylons had a spring-loaded, forked bar at the rear, the fork resting on top of the 'tail' of the tank, and was designed to deflect the tank, when jettisoned, to prevent it 'flipping up' in the slipstream and damaging the underside of the wing and, more importantly, the flaps. Once jettisoned, these bars sprung back up, level with the angled, trailing edge of the pylon.
You don't need to make and fit a radio antenna wire - the aircraft were fitted with VHF radios, with a carbon dipole rod in the antenna mast, and didn't have an antenna wire. The fin attachment ring was sometimes left in place though
There was, however, a I.F.F. dipole antenna beneath the port wing, near the wheel bay and landing lamp (see my 'Bridge Buster P-47 build).
Note also that the supercharger exhaust outlet shroud, beneath the rear fuselage, was stainless steel, discoloured at the forward edge, and with a darker bare metal rim around the fuselage.
EDIT:- I posted the above as you were editing your post! Note my comments re the antenna wire. The whip antenna was an earlier VHF fitment, mainly on the 'C' and early 'D' models.
It's only because I noticed extra text in your post, that I realised you'd edited it - otherwise I wouldn't have known about your question regarding the whip antenna.
At this time, escort and sweeps were still being flown, although by May, as with most Fighter Groups, some ground-attack missions were flown, preparing for D-Day, in between escort missions.
The 56th didn't like the pylons under the wings and, when not needed, they were known to have actually removed them, in order to reduce drag. However, on escort missions, drop-tanks were fitted. Depending on requirements, this might be a single tank on the center-line, with either empty or removed wing pylons, or a tank under each wing, with the center line 'clean'.
The three main types of tank are known to have been used - the 108 gal steel tank (smooth, grey-painted), the 108 gal 'paper' tank (ribbed, silver doped), and the 'flat' tank. The wing pylons had a spring-loaded, forked bar at the rear, the fork resting on top of the 'tail' of the tank, and was designed to deflect the tank, when jettisoned, to prevent it 'flipping up' in the slipstream and damaging the underside of the wing and, more importantly, the flaps. Once jettisoned, these bars sprung back up, level with the angled, trailing edge of the pylon.
You don't need to make and fit a radio antenna wire - the aircraft were fitted with VHF radios, with a carbon dipole rod in the antenna mast, and didn't have an antenna wire. The fin attachment ring was sometimes left in place though
There was, however, a I.F.F. dipole antenna beneath the port wing, near the wheel bay and landing lamp (see my 'Bridge Buster P-47 build).
Note also that the supercharger exhaust outlet shroud, beneath the rear fuselage, was stainless steel, discoloured at the forward edge, and with a darker bare metal rim around the fuselage.
EDIT:- I posted the above as you were editing your post! Note my comments re the antenna wire. The whip antenna was an earlier VHF fitment, mainly on the 'C' and early 'D' models.
It's only because I noticed extra text in your post, that I realised you'd edited it - otherwise I wouldn't have known about your question regarding the whip antenna.
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- Thread starter
- #91
dneid
Staff Sergeant
Hey, Terry,
Thank you very much for the input. I noticed your entry after I saved my edits. Just saw your update and thank you again.
Thank you very much for the input. I noticed your entry after I saved my edits. Just saw your update and thank you again.
fubar57
General
Not a lot of pictures in my books though there were several that I couldn't tell if they were metal or paper...
Geo
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Beautiful work and great info!
Gerry
Staff Sergeant
Looking great and some great contributions from the members. A benchmark Razorback build?
Gerry
Gerry
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Good stuff Geo. In the first photo, the three tanks look like they might be the steel tanks, un-painted, and filled with napalm for a ground attack mission. I can't see any feed or pressure lines on the nearest tank in the photo. They may be the 'paper' tanks, but I can't see any ribs on the nose, or the reinforcing nose cap, and they look rather smooth, morelike the design of the steel tank.
A three tank load was normally of this nature, used over a relatively short range, but not always of course. A normal escort mission would be two tanks, under the wings, plumbed for cross feed into the main tanks if needed, for easier fuel management. Outbound flight would be on the wing tanks, transferring to mains before jettison.
The 'paper' tanks were recognisable by their silver-doped finish, with the reinforcing ribs on nose and tail, and the steel, smooth tanks, as well as the early 'tear drop' tank and the 150 gal 'flat' tank were painted grey.
The tanks shown in the colour photo of the 56th are a variation of the 'flat' tank, made from steel, but more bulbous around the sides than the 'normal' flat tank, and there was yet another similar tank, which had a more angled, 'pointed' nose contour.
See also the info in my other post, re the spring-loaded deflection bar, from pylon to tank.
A three tank load was normally of this nature, used over a relatively short range, but not always of course. A normal escort mission would be two tanks, under the wings, plumbed for cross feed into the main tanks if needed, for easier fuel management. Outbound flight would be on the wing tanks, transferring to mains before jettison.
The 'paper' tanks were recognisable by their silver-doped finish, with the reinforcing ribs on nose and tail, and the steel, smooth tanks, as well as the early 'tear drop' tank and the 150 gal 'flat' tank were painted grey.
The tanks shown in the colour photo of the 56th are a variation of the 'flat' tank, made from steel, but more bulbous around the sides than the 'normal' flat tank, and there was yet another similar tank, which had a more angled, 'pointed' nose contour.
See also the info in my other post, re the spring-loaded deflection bar, from pylon to tank.
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- Thread starter
- #97
dneid
Staff Sergeant
Hey, All,
Thank you all for stopping by. And, thank you all for the posts and pics and input! This is one of the main reasons I love this forum.
Thank you all for stopping by. And, thank you all for the posts and pics and input! This is one of the main reasons I love this forum.
fubar57
General
Nicely done so far!
