1:72 B-25B "Whirling Dervish"

[Maty12]

Managed to salvage the serial number, though it still wanted to fold up even hours after applying Microsol. Will be covering it in varnish ASAP. Haven't applied the other serial yet.


Applied 3 out of 4 of the insignias as best I could, position of the underwing one is about 1/64" off but it refused to budge even seconds after placing it. I can live with that. No issues with these folding up, though the red propeller warning stripe did fold on me and was in general too fiddly to place. I'll just paint it on with masking tape.


And finally, practice attempts at drawing the noseart this small. Colored pencils were a no-go and so were cocktail sticks dipped in paint, remaining options are trying my smallest brush again or using my smallest drillbit coated in paint. In general freehanding is very difficult because the wing and nacelled get in the way of my wrist.

 

[Wurger]

 

[Gnomey]

Nice work so far!

 

[Maty12]

Well y'all, the attempts to paint on the noseart have all ended badly. I cannot apply the paint evenly or at this small a size, no matter how small the utensil. I even attempted painting the area white, covering it with OD and then using my smallest drill bit to "reveal" the noseart in white below. No dice, the drill bit scraped off all layers of paint and varnish simultaneously and left thick films around the outlines. It was also very hard to control, as the wing and engine nacelle block me from maintaining my normal drawing pose. To clarify, I was holding the very thin and long drillbit between my fingers, not drilling it. I have since completely removed all layers of paint and varnish from the area. I will give it one last shot with just one coat of OD and then scratching with the drill bit to "write" the noseart with the clear light gray plastic underneath, which might be able to pass for badly weathered white paint.

If this fails, I have a decision to make. I've stated before that the only other aircraft I'd be interested in portraying would be the Ruptured Duck. Kitsworld includes the iconic (but incorrect) Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo noseart as well as the rendition by Corporal Lovelace, who drew the original. There are no photos showing the Duck's noseart. I personally prefer the rendition Lawson commissioned of the noseart (which isn't included in the Kitsworld offering but is in some 1/48 offerings and is also the one used for 2001's Pearl Harbor), but Lovelace's is at least 50% as likely to be correct. One man drew it, the other (and his wife) saw it very often for several months. As an artist myself I both think I'd more accurate if trying replicate my own artstyle than anyone else, but I also doubt I'd be able to replicate something I drew decades ago without reference, especially as my own artstyle has changed wildly in the past couple of years alone. The Pearl Harbor Aviation Museum has opted to use Lovelace's artwork, and their B-25's livery is very accurate, being the only aircraft I'm aware off to have the correct demarcation line, so that is also a point in favor of Lovelace. This would however mean using 3 more of Kitsworld's decals, which feels a bit like tempting fate at this point, and would doubtlessly result in the destruction of the previously applied Whirling Dervish serial number decals.

So what's the decision? Well, I can either remove the Dervish's serials and repaint it as the Duck (photos I have of its right side seem to show the same NM frames in the cockpit so no repainting necessary anywhere else on the plane)... or I can keep it as the Dervish with no noseart.

There are no photos of the Dervish that show its noseart, and I haven't been able to find any statements anywhere from the crew about what artwork, if any, was on the aircraft. I do recall reading somewhere a description of the naming of the airplane, but can't remember where. A statement by a crewmember of the airplane (I think Thomas C. Griffin, as Rossland mentions having met him later in the post) refers to it by name as well, but whether anything at all was painted on the airplane is not mentioned. Lawson mentions an aircraft named Whirling Dervish in TSOT, but doesn't give further details.

There's also this passage in John Mollison's website:

And about the nose art, Dick Cole (sole surviving Doolittle Raider) said that any artwork done on the Raider's B-25s was done with chalk and washed off during the rainy gale on 18 April, 1942. We'll never know for certain about the nose art on #15.

So, the noseart could have been added to the plane or not, it could look like the design everyone seems to agree is correct or not (people agree on the noseart for TNT but the consensus is very unlikely to be correct), and it could have been washed off by rain (though I don't recall nor can I tell from the footage if it was raining during the windy launch or not, and he could be referring to the storm most of the Raiders flew through to get to China, meaning it's not very relevant to my "ready to launch" model).

 

[Crimea_River]

Sorry to hear of your noseart issues. Freehand painting at small scale is certainly tricky and the only thing I can offer, short of making your own decals (though white decals have their own challenges) is to get yourself a lifetime supply of cheap eye liner brushes like these:

Amazon product ASIN B074SFJSNF
View: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B074SFJSNF/
Hope you are able to get this sorted by Sunday. You can leave the noseart off for later and let us judges look at the rest of the build on its own merits.

 

[Maty12]

Sorry to hear of your noseart issues. Freehand painting at small scale is certainly tricky and the only thing I can offer, short of making your own decals (though white decals have their own challenges) is to get yourself a lifetime supply of cheap eye liner brushes like these:

Amazon product ASIN B074SFJSNF
View: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B074SFJSNF/
Hope you are able to get this sorted by Sunday. You can leave the noseart off for later and let us judges look at the rest of the build on its own merits.

Thank you, Andy! I might look into eyeliner brushes, though I think the problem isn't really the brush itself but rather the fact that paint is, well, liquid. I just can't write that small with paint, no matter how thin the brush, cocktail stick, or drill bit. The letters have to be 1/64" thick, it's just thinner than what I can do with anything other than pencil and paper.

I have considered printing my own decals in the future as this would be very helpful and greatly increase the number of aircraft I can portray, but as you've said there are issues with white decals, plus it's my understanding that they're more delicate than storebought, and I already struggle with both Kitsworld and Airfix's decals. I will make one last attempt at the noseart either tonight or tomorrow, and just paint the area OD if that fails.

I am pressing on still. I applied the underside markings, though the Airfix U.S. ARMY writing is actually somewhat too small length-wise despite being the correct height. These gave me a bit of trouble as they instantly started setting where I had initially placed them, and I had to move them around with water and tweezers. I'm not 100% happy with their position, but any more touching will likely destroy them. I have a lot of difficulty getting the decals off the backing paper and onto the correct location, an issue that the Kitsworld decals amplified due to their tendency to fold. I have decided to apply no further decals to this model except for the small data block aft of the cockpit.


Deice boots have been painted on using masking tape, will be cleaned up as there was a lot of bleeding under the tape. The port inboard boot seems to be shorter than the starboard, and has a cutout near the fuselage for an intake. The intake was not modeled on the kit, I might be able to drill it, or more likely paint it. If this fails I'll just paint the area black. I still need to clean up the demarcation lines between the wings and nacelle and wings and empennage in general.


Propeller warning stripes will be painted on with Vallejo dark red and masking tape. You can already see the bottom mask in place in the middle photo above. It's hard to tell where the lines end based on photos, and the NAA guide also does not say, but shows it going all the way down and describes it as being painted "on both sides". This leads me to believe that the line ends roughly in line with the escape hatch, as this is the width of the fuselage's flat section. I considered the possibility that it's just one continuous line going through the bottom, but then I think NAA would say "both sides and underside" instead. From photos it definitely ends several inches below the hinge for the nose landing gear door.

Wheels have been cleaned up and covered in varnish. They will receive the Flory Models wash before being attached to the model, to highlight their detail.

 

[Maty12]

New attempt with a cocktail stick turned out okay-ish? Too large (goes past prop line) and at some points too much paint was scraped off, but if I'm able to keep the font size the same as at the start I might just be able to pull this off. If not, well then it'll just be OD.

 

[Crimea_River]

That'll work!

 

[fubar57]

Looking good despite the setbacks

 

[Vic Balshaw]

You have determination and that's a good effort.

 

[Maty12]

Thanks, guys.

No update tonight, spent a lot of time working on the noseart, must've redone it some five times. Will keep at it. The results are close but still too big.

 

[Gnomey]

Good work so far!

 

[N4521U]

Is too bad, looks like Kitsworld was your only option for production decals.
I use a pair of clamping tweezers to hold decals, both in the water and holding in place for sliding.
Make sure the surface is wet with water, or decals solution, regular would be okay there.
I then use the little sponge sticks the wife uses for eye make-up powder to slide the decal into place and move around to where you want it.
Wishing I could have helped more, and sooner.
When I get stuck I always look on YouTube for the process I need help with.
Look forward to see you do another GB. You did well.
Bill

 

[Maty12]

Pretty happy with this result! 7th or 8th attempt, I think. Keeping the art just below the cockpit made Whirling impossible to write, moving it lower made Dervish impossible to write. You may notice I didn't place the writing in the way it's commonly placed around the cartoon tornado, why is that? Well because I had been struggling with Dervish badly and wanted to get it out of the way, and then drew a tornado I was very happy with... which meant I couldn't fit the Whirling unless I did it in line with the Dervish. This is the most legible I've gotten both words to be, so it'll have to do. The art's still too big, but that doesn't matter to me, all that I needed was for it to end forward of the propeller warning stripe (which I have yet to paint on).

 

[Maty12]

Is too bad, looks like Kitsworld was your only option for production decals.
I use a pair of clamping tweezers to hold decals, both in the water and holding in place for sliding.
Make sure the surface is wet with water, or decals solution, regular would be okay there.
I then use the little sponge sticks the wife uses for eye make-up powder to slide the decal into place and move around to where you want it.
Wishing I could have helped more, and sooner.
When I get stuck I always look on YouTube for the process I need help with.
Look forward to see you do another GB. You did well.
Bill

Thanks, Bill.

I will look into the sponge sticks. I struggle a lot with applying decals. My current approach is to dip in water with tweezers, apply microset to the area on the model, use a cocktail stick, tweezers or my finger to try to get them onto the model, using either of the 3 to them move the decal around. I then wait and apply microsol as needed. It seemed for some reason that most of my decals were setting instantly except for the propeller ones and the first US insignia I applied, even if I applied water or microsol, so I tried not using microset on one of the decals (I forget which but it wasn't the noseart) to see if that helped. Made no difference, it seems. Perhaps I should keep decals in a ziplocked bag in the future.

 

[N4521U]

Are you first applying a clear coat Under the decal ares?
I have had decals slide off the backing and Stick like i glued them in place!
Because I didn't clear coat. Clear acrylic floor polish is usually used.
I have an old bottle of Pledge, One Go I've had for several years.
Any of them like this will work.
I apply a thin coat with a brush. Dip and almost wire dry for a thin film.
It can also be air brushed, THIN coat all over the model.
Too thick and it slumps and runs into a puddle just like paint.
This usually looks like, you know!!!!!!!
After it has dried then apply the decals as usual.
The Pledge will take any of the decal solutions as well as Lacquer clear coats.

 

[Vic Balshaw]

That "Whirling Dervish" is bl**dy good, you have every right to feel satisfied with it. Well done.

 

[Maty12]

Are you first applying a clear coat Under the decal ares?
I have had decals slide off the backing and Stick like i glued them in place!
Because I didn't clear coat. Clear acrylic floor polish is usually used.
I have an old bottle of Pledge, One Go I've had for several years.
Any of them like this will work.
I apply a thin coat with a brush. Dip and almost wire dry for a thin film.
It can also be air brushed, THIN coat all over the model.
Too thick and it slumps and runs into a puddle just like paint.
This usually looks like, you know!!!!!!!
After it has dried then apply the decals as usual.
The Pledge will take any of the decal solutions as well as Lacquer clear coats.

My memory's not great so I can't give you a full answer there. I know for sure I applied Vallejo Satin Varnish (Acrylic) to the top surfaces and the sides before applying the decals, and I think I applied it to the undersides too but I'm not 100% sure. All applied with a flat brush. The sides and bottom were both giving me trouble, and the former was definitely varnished. I don't know if varnish is the same as a clear coat. Your mention of a thin coat does remind me that I haven't been thinning the varnish when in hindsight I should have, though it hasn't been clumping up. It looks like a blueish white when applied but dries clear and without lumps, I can only tell the areas that are varnished because they are slightly glossier than the unvarnished parts.

I stopped thinning because back when I varnished my B-26 and P-40 with a thinned coat it removed the paint, but looking back that's clearly just a side effect of the ever-problematic Mission Models paint I used, which still rubs off on my hands whenever I lightly touch the airplanes a year after applying it and months after being varnished. Not an issue I had with other paints, and in fact I had to use alcohol and rub quite a bit to remove the neutral grey from the undersides of this B-25.

I think I have finally solved the mystery behind that one... looking up the bottle online the label says water-based. Certainly explains why it washed off when I tried applying decals. D'oh. Man, 2021 me could have saved a lot of headaches if he fully read the labels of things before buying them.

Unrelated but I think something I really need is to pick up an eyedropper ASAP so I can properly thin the paints. The model looks good for the most part but you can see that the paint forms a somewhat thick film with a few lumps, the Neutral Grey being the worst culprit as it covers up a lot of the detail underneath it. I thinned the paint before applying to the underside of the wings, but didn't do so for the underside of the fuselage out of fear that the thinner paint would leak under the masking tape.

That "Whirling Dervish" is bl**dy good, you have every right to feel satisfied with it. Well done.

Thank you!

 

[Crimea_River]

Hey Matt, what's the plan? Are you going to post some finished pics in a day or 2? GB ended yesterday.

 

[Maty12]

Hey Matt, what's the plan? Are you going to post some finished pics in a day or 2? GB ended yesterday.

Hi Andy,

I don't know how withdrawing works but I just have not been able to finish the plane in time. I tried giving notice beforehand here. I'd rather y'all go on without me this time as I've been working on this plane nonstop the last couple of days and need a break. There is still much to do and a lot of it is precision work that I'm just not in the headspace for. I will see y'all in a future GB when I once again have a model relevant to the theme, if y'all will have me. For now I'm taking a couple of days or perhaps a week off. I will finish the model when I can. I don't know if that means I need to make a new thread elsewhere or what happens next.