vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
I wonder if it could be something as simple as having picked up some trash on takeoff.
5-10 foot long black streamers behind Fw-190's
- Thread starter B-17engineer
- Start date
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meatloaf109
1st Lieutenant
I have heard about the "First Flight" thing. Just to let everyone in the area know that these were new pilots. But, again, no confirmation by actual L.W. pilots.
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
i know a 51 pilot who buzzed a control tower ( not on purpose ) and flew around with the wind sock attached to his plane....
Procrastintor
Senior Airman
A few totally un-backed-up ideas:
Maybe it was their birthday! Or maybe one of them was a many-kill ace and he was REALLY proud of it, and made the rest of his flight tow them as well. Another reason could be that they were drunk, or maybe they were bored, MAYBE they were doing one of their experiments, like trying to see if the streamers affected flight or combat performance. My favorite though, is that they are trying to use them as weapons, if an enemy plane, a P-51 for example, gets behind you, you release a streamer and it gets caught in his prop (or something, maybe they were weighted to smash through the prop/windshield/etc.).
Any of those sound reasonable?
Maybe it was their birthday! Or maybe one of them was a many-kill ace and he was REALLY proud of it, and made the rest of his flight tow them as well. Another reason could be that they were drunk, or maybe they were bored, MAYBE they were doing one of their experiments, like trying to see if the streamers affected flight or combat performance. My favorite though, is that they are trying to use them as weapons, if an enemy plane, a P-51 for example, gets behind you, you release a streamer and it gets caught in his prop (or something, maybe they were weighted to smash through the prop/windshield/etc.).
Any of those sound reasonable?
- Thread starter
- #26
B-17engineer
Colonel
After some more reading/searching I have come up with the following
The Luftdienst was a unit of the Luftwaffe that was equipped with second and third line aircraft and their job was to tow target sleeves for Flakartillerie. Problem is, I cannot find much info and the aircraft they have were said to have served with did not include the FW-190 (ALTHOUGH the list was of aircraft around 1942.) Also, found they were pressed into combat in rare cases in France in 1944. Operated in detachments from Norway to Italy and everywhere in between
Anyone have more information on this unit?
Luftdienst-Kommando 7
Formed 1.7.36 in Wustrow, under Luftdienst-Verband III.
On 1.1.39 redesignated Luftdienst-Kommando 67.
Reformed 1.1.39 in Göppingen with:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/7 in Göppingen
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/7 was formed 6.40(?) in Friedrichshafen.
In 2.44 became part of Fliegerzielgeschwader 3.
Aircraft used: Ar 76, B.71, Bf 109, Breguet 693, Fw 44, Fw 58, Go 145, He 45, He 70, Ju 52, Ju 86, Kl 35 and Letov S.328
Known bases:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/7
Wüstrow, 7.36 - 1.39
Göppingen, 1.39 - 5.39(?)
Schongau, 5.39 - 2.44
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/7
Friedrichshafen, 6.40 - 8.42(?)
Oldenburg, 8.42 - 2.44
Luftdienst Kommando 8
Formed 1.4.38 under Luftdienst-Verband III with:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/8 in Kamp/Sylt
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/8 in Stolp-Reitz
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 3/8 in Brüsterort
On 1.1.39 redesignated Luftdienst-Kommando 68.
Reformed 1.1.39 in Breslau-Gandau with:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/8 in Breslau-Gandau
In 2.44 became part of one of the Fliegerzielgeschwadern.
Aircraft used: He 46, Ar 66, Bf 109
Known bases:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/8
Kamp/Sylt, 4.38 - 1.39
Breslau-Gandau, 1.39 - 5.39(?)
Leipzig-Mockau, 5.39 - 2.44
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/8
Stolp-Reitz, 4.38 - 1.39
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 3/8
Brüsterort, 4.38 - 1.39
Luftdienst Kommando 67
Formed 1.1.39 in Rerik from Luftdienst-Kommando 7, under Luftdienst-Verband III.
In 12.43 became part of one of the Fliegerzielgeschwadern.
Aircraft used: B.71, Bf 109, He 70, He 72, Hs 123 and W.34
Known bases:
Rerik, 1.39 - 12.43
Luftdienst Kommando 68
Formed 1.1.39 from Luftdienst-Kommando 8, under Luftdienst-Verband III, with:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/68 in Kamp/Sylt from Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/8
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/68 in Stolp-Reitz from Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/8
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 3/68 in Brüsterort from Luftdienst-Teilkommando 3/8
In 12.43 Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/68 and 2/68 became part of one of the Fliegerzielgeschwadern.
In 6.44 Luftdienst-Teilkommando 3/68 became Fliegerzielstaffel ?
Aircraft used: B.71, Bf 109, Fw 44 and W.34
Known bases:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/68
Kamp/Sylt, 1.39 - 12.43
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/68
Stolp-Reitz, 1.39 - 12.43
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 3/68
Brüsterort, 1.39 - 6.44
http://www.ww2.dk/air/misc/ld68.html
The Luftdienst was a unit of the Luftwaffe that was equipped with second and third line aircraft and their job was to tow target sleeves for Flakartillerie. Problem is, I cannot find much info and the aircraft they have were said to have served with did not include the FW-190 (ALTHOUGH the list was of aircraft around 1942.) Also, found they were pressed into combat in rare cases in France in 1944. Operated in detachments from Norway to Italy and everywhere in between
Anyone have more information on this unit?
Luftdienst-Kommando 7
Formed 1.7.36 in Wustrow, under Luftdienst-Verband III.
On 1.1.39 redesignated Luftdienst-Kommando 67.
Reformed 1.1.39 in Göppingen with:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/7 in Göppingen
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/7 was formed 6.40(?) in Friedrichshafen.
In 2.44 became part of Fliegerzielgeschwader 3.
Aircraft used: Ar 76, B.71, Bf 109, Breguet 693, Fw 44, Fw 58, Go 145, He 45, He 70, Ju 52, Ju 86, Kl 35 and Letov S.328
Known bases:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/7
Wüstrow, 7.36 - 1.39
Göppingen, 1.39 - 5.39(?)
Schongau, 5.39 - 2.44
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/7
Friedrichshafen, 6.40 - 8.42(?)
Oldenburg, 8.42 - 2.44
Luftdienst Kommando 8
Formed 1.4.38 under Luftdienst-Verband III with:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/8 in Kamp/Sylt
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/8 in Stolp-Reitz
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 3/8 in Brüsterort
On 1.1.39 redesignated Luftdienst-Kommando 68.
Reformed 1.1.39 in Breslau-Gandau with:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/8 in Breslau-Gandau
In 2.44 became part of one of the Fliegerzielgeschwadern.
Aircraft used: He 46, Ar 66, Bf 109
Known bases:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/8
Kamp/Sylt, 4.38 - 1.39
Breslau-Gandau, 1.39 - 5.39(?)
Leipzig-Mockau, 5.39 - 2.44
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/8
Stolp-Reitz, 4.38 - 1.39
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 3/8
Brüsterort, 4.38 - 1.39
Luftdienst Kommando 67
Formed 1.1.39 in Rerik from Luftdienst-Kommando 7, under Luftdienst-Verband III.
In 12.43 became part of one of the Fliegerzielgeschwadern.
Aircraft used: B.71, Bf 109, He 70, He 72, Hs 123 and W.34
Known bases:
Rerik, 1.39 - 12.43
Luftdienst Kommando 68
Formed 1.1.39 from Luftdienst-Kommando 8, under Luftdienst-Verband III, with:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/68 in Kamp/Sylt from Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/8
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/68 in Stolp-Reitz from Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/8
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 3/68 in Brüsterort from Luftdienst-Teilkommando 3/8
In 12.43 Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/68 and 2/68 became part of one of the Fliegerzielgeschwadern.
In 6.44 Luftdienst-Teilkommando 3/68 became Fliegerzielstaffel ?
Aircraft used: B.71, Bf 109, Fw 44 and W.34
Known bases:
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 1/68
Kamp/Sylt, 1.39 - 12.43
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 2/68
Stolp-Reitz, 1.39 - 12.43
Luftdienst-Teilkommando 3/68
Brüsterort, 1.39 - 6.44
http://www.ww2.dk/air/misc/ld68.html
Last edited:
Procrastintor
Senior Airman
Great job "17"
- Thread starter
- #28
B-17engineer
Colonel
Oldenburg (apparently one of their bases) is very close to Osnabrück (sighting took place) 1 hour 5 minutes by car
A4K
Colonel
Interesting ideas, wonder if any are correct for the unit in question.
Boa
Airman
A few thoughts.. (with streamers=rookies in mind)
If there was 3 FW-190s, where is the #4?
Could it have been an experienced flight leader that was sending of his 3 rookies for a easy first kill?
(flightleader without streamer, maybe not in sight from observing airmen)
Was the bomber low and slow, damaged? Did the Bomber make it back home? was the observation made from that bomber?
If so, I suspect they were rookiepilots in the 190s and therefore: Streamers= Rookies
(Note that this just is a guess, no actual reserch was made to prove this point)
If there was 3 FW-190s, where is the #4?
Could it have been an experienced flight leader that was sending of his 3 rookies for a easy first kill?
(flightleader without streamer, maybe not in sight from observing airmen)
Was the bomber low and slow, damaged? Did the Bomber make it back home? was the observation made from that bomber?
If so, I suspect they were rookiepilots in the 190s and therefore: Streamers= Rookies
(Note that this just is a guess, no actual reserch was made to prove this point)
A unit from the "Luftdienst" had crossed my mind but the description of a 5'-10' black streamer bears no resemblance to a target sleeve.
It is another of the possibilities that has come up and been dismissed elsewhere over the years by various Luftwaffe experts. Again there is no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, of these units flying such streamers.
Incidentally the towing of a streamer by a pilot on his first solo flight was obligatory (not a custom) in the Luftwaffe, but I very much doubt that any pilot made his first solo flight on a front line, fully armed fighter! I also doubt that the streamers were designed to hold up at 500 kph!
Cheers
Steve
It is another of the possibilities that has come up and been dismissed elsewhere over the years by various Luftwaffe experts. Again there is no evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, of these units flying such streamers.
Incidentally the towing of a streamer by a pilot on his first solo flight was obligatory (not a custom) in the Luftwaffe, but I very much doubt that any pilot made his first solo flight on a front line, fully armed fighter! I also doubt that the streamers were designed to hold up at 500 kph!
Cheers
Steve
Why would a high performance aircraft add something that's going to slow it down with absolutely no benefit.
I know when aircraft tow advertising banners it's quit a hard pull.
A 5 or 10 foot banner isn't going to effect it like a 20-30 foot banner, but it is going to slow it down. And I can't even begin to imagine the drag involved in pulling one at over 300-400 mph. It'd have to have a giant effect on the handling.
I know banner towing aircraft can detach the banner before landing, and so could target sleeve towing aircraft.
I know when aircraft tow advertising banners it's quit a hard pull.
A 5 or 10 foot banner isn't going to effect it like a 20-30 foot banner, but it is going to slow it down. And I can't even begin to imagine the drag involved in pulling one at over 300-400 mph. It'd have to have a giant effect on the handling.
I know banner towing aircraft can detach the banner before landing, and so could target sleeve towing aircraft.
Procrastintor
Senior Airman
Maybe they were experimental rocket 190s, and the streamers were special parachutes to slow them down for landing, they saw the bomber by chance. And the report got in because they were unarmed and couldnt shoot the bomber down. (uneducated guess, but as good as any I guess)
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Or perhaps it was an aircraft that had streamers attached for a newbie, but an experienced pilot jumped in when the call for scramble came.
Procrastintor
Senior Airman
Maybe they did it on a dare lol, conversation went like this.
Hans - Hey Kennethson, I dare you to fly around with ribbons attached to your plane.
Kennethson: Lol wtf? no, thatd be stupid.
Hans: I DOUBLE DARE YOU
Two days later a B-24 pilot reports an FW 190 with streamers or ribbons attached.
Hans - Hey Kennethson, I dare you to fly around with ribbons attached to your plane.
Kennethson: Lol wtf? no, thatd be stupid.
Hans: I DOUBLE DARE YOU
Two days later a B-24 pilot reports an FW 190 with streamers or ribbons attached.
Last edited:
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
The ribbons signify solos so maybe to signify first solos in a Fw.
But even training flights were combat flights so these first solos were sent into battle.
But even training flights were combat flights so these first solos were sent into battle.
Procrastintor
Senior Airman
Maybe there was a party at the airfield and the planes were decorated accordingly, they got scrambled mid-soiree.
Procrastintor
Senior Airman
Wait, was each plane carrying more than one?
