5 Favourite Planes

[cheddar cheese]

i think the p-38 is often overlooked in this category, it was a great plane 8)

 

[plan_D]

Yes, there is no denying that the P-38 was a great plane. I still think it was under-armed when it comes to guns, especially as a ground attack plane. Although I know they did carry rockets and bombs, I made a great model of one with rockets.

 

[cheddar cheese]

I made a great model of one with rockets

nice to see that your modest

 

[plan_D]

Well I was proud of it, it was great.

Not so great now though, it got destroyed bit by bit over the years by certain members of my family. A terrible thing, envy.

 

[cheddar cheese]

 

[Lightning Guy]

The 4 .50cals and 1 20mm of the P-38 made for a greater weight of fire than the P-51. And the Lightning guns didn't converge. On the P-38, you had all of it's fire power hitting in an area of about 3 square feet out to their maximum range.

Lockheed did test a couple of alternate arangements. One had 2 20mm plus the 4 .50cals and the other had 8 .50cals all in the nose! The later was specifically designed for strafing but field experience showed that the basic Lightning was doing just fine as a ground attacker.

 

[plan_D]

It was a good ground attack aircraft, no one can deny that but it wasn't really powerful enough in my eyes. Anyway, I was talking about it compared to the Mosquito not Mustang.
The original P-38 had a 37mm cannon, correct? Why was that removed, do you know?

 

[Lightning Guy]

My point was that the P-38 probably had the best armament package of any American fighter. Early American 37mm guns weren't very good, low muzzle velocity (2,000fpm), low range, and low rate of fire (135rpm). Plus with the larger gun and ammo there was only enough room for 15rds (vs. 150 for the 20mm). The P-39s sent over to the Brits quickly had their 37mm guns replaced by 20mm weapons because the 20mm was much better for air-to-air work.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

the 20mm was the only truely successful brittish Air to Air cannon, if you were gonna put a cannon in a brittish plane, is was the 20mm, nothing else would even have been considered............

 

[plan_D]

Well a 37mm cannon is stupid for air to air, it hasn't enough ammo and the recoil is stupidly high. The 30mm on the Swallow were acceptable because it was a jet, it was a little more stable when firing.

 

[Lightning Guy]

And the 30mm guns on the Me-262 were intended to fire against large, slow bombers. The 30mm guns of the day were not ideal for shooting at fighters (low muzzle velocity, low rate of fire).

 

[Gemhorse]

Actually, I'm inclined to agree that the P-38 had a pretty formidable armament array. Apparently the L-5 was the best variant, but they were the first true U.S. multi-mission fighters, with excellent range, capable of up to 12-14 hr flights - They could carry up to 4000lb of bombs and/or fuel, and in the last year of the War, delivered napalm strikes. They were also the first fighter to ever have power-assisted ailerons in later models, and their compact .50's+1x20mm were effortless to aim. With 1750hp available, a total of 3400hp, one chap had his left engine shot-out 4hrs into a mission, but took 4hrs 20mins to fly the 850miles back to base on one engine, probably a record then...they were particuarly suited to the Pacific conflict, and really the first Allied plane to gain aerial superiority over the Japs - They even having special bomb-racks fitted to drop ammo, food, water medical supplies to combat-troops. The 'M' nightfighter model was a two seater and IMO really made the P-61 look obsolete as to this role, weighing 5 tons more and being 70mph slower than the Lightning...and lets not forget that the US's top aces, Bong [40 kills] and McGuire [38] flew Lightnings....they were really the next best thing to Mosquitos !!

 

[Lightning Guy]

All excellent points. I still give the P-38 the edge over the Mosquito, but if we would all be honest I think we are all probably influenced by national bias. Both planes were phenomenally successful and performed whatever mission they were tasked with very successfully.

Officially, the L model Lightning could carry 4,000lbs of bombs. Some of the Pacific based Lightnings, however, carried loads as heavy as 5200lbs (2 x 2000lbs and 4 x 300lbs) on short range missions. Lightnings in the MTO often carried 6 500lb bombs (equal to a standard load for a medium bomber). Pacific based squadrons flew combat (not ferry missions) of 2300 miles. They were also about the toughest fighter of the war. One P-38 collided with a Bf-109 and flew several hundred miles back to base and I've seen a photo of another that collided with a Halifax bomber and actually landed with a Halifax tailplane inbedded in its wing!

 

[plan_D]

Mosquito was better..

The P-38 was a very good plane, and a great fighter. The thing is with those loads it would have flown a lot short missions. The 'official' is its ideal, most aircraft can more than they are said to in weight if you can fit extra racks, or find space it's just that their radius will be reduced greatly. For a start you use more fuel heavier you are, and you won't have as much space for fuel if you carry more.

 

[Lightning Guy]

Lockheed tests proved that a P-38F could carry a 2,000lb load to a radius of 1,000 miles. And the L model carried 124 more gallons of fuel. And I did mention that those loads were only used on short range missions.

 

[plan_D]

I was just putting it across with more conviction.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i think the combat record of the mossie is better than the P-38..............

 

[brad]

Mosquitos ruled....

not not not not not :fist: :fist: :fist:

 

[Lightning Guy]

How are we defining combat record? The Mossie dropped more bombs, the P-38 shot down more planes. Seems like this might be a little "apples to oranges" here.

 

[Gemhorse]

Before we all get carried away, MY personal LOVE has always been for the Mossie, but between both aircraft, the only thing they had in common was they were both twin-engined...The P-38 was THE top-scoring fighter in the whole Pacific Theatre, and greatly loved respected by all those who flew worked on them - I'm not gonna sit here and say one or the other was 'better', they were both unique aircraft and similar in that they were both multi-role and both flew in most Theatres of Ops as such...if the Mossie had an advantage it would probably be it had two aircrew, helpful if the pilot was injured, perhaps...but IMO they both represented the best of what was put into combat at the time, by the two nations - As I've said, the Mossie was unique because it was wooden - I do think it's particuarly sad to view pics of the huge piles of Lightnings put to the torch, postwar, along with so many other fine aircraft...others were melted down into ingots, but it was a deplorable waste nonetheless - [They've just finished with the Phantom, and I believe they should've made more available to responsible collectors/museums, than they have...]- I've just finished a book on the PTO, and reading of the enormous wastage kinda galls me...We're now left with expensive recovery operations like 'the Glacier Girl', a P-38 dug up from under tons of ice up around the Arctic, and restored, which is a bloody shame for all those that were just trashed - While jet-engined aircraft became the 'in-thing', piston-engined aircraft had reached the peak of development by 1945, driven by the War, not just Allied but also some Axis aircraft, and altho' it may appear I'm 'crying over spilt milk', piston-engines are still with us in quantity today, just not enough of those 'thoroughbreds' we made during the War...I've even joined a Museum here that's got a couple of Mosquitos that need restoring, purely just to be involved somehow, to honour the ingenuity born of wartime desperation that inspired such amazing creations...Those years of War were truly a technological marvel on All sides, which our generations have been the beneficiaries of...Lightnings Mosquitos, they were both special aircraft...if I said 'Mossies ruled,' that's just my personal affection for them; Lightnings were a 'Cadillac' to fly apparently and I respect the success they were for the Americans...