A 10 club

[FLYBOYJ]

Great info Adler!!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Thankyou

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

yes back then they weren't even sure they needed the lightening, the plan was for a fully AA missile defence of tyhe UK............

 

[plan_D]

What's a Lightening? You mean the Lightning? The Lightning came extremely close to being cut in the early years because of government cut-backs, that centered around AA missiles being able to stop any attacking force.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Interesting that I did not know. Obviously that does not work because well every conflict except for Korea and Vietnam we have bombed the shit out of them and SAMs did not stop us.

 

[plan_D]

The MoD realised in the 1960s that SAMs cannot stop all aircraft coming in. And they also realised that air superiority is a much safer option then letting the enemy have free roam and hoping SAMs would stop them.

Possibly the Vietnam war influenced them...

 

[syscom3]

I think the Oct '73 Arab-Israeli war showed that SAM defense must be multi-layered with AAA.

You need EFFECTIVE SAM's and AAA effective for all altitudes so your target has no options in which way to dodge the missles.

 

[plan_D]

And you need interceptors, first and foremost.

 

[Gnomey]

And you need interceptors, first and foremost.

Agreed, air superiority is the best form of defence. If nobody can come into your airspace then you have nothing to worry about.

 

[syscom3]

But a highly effective SAM/AAA defense can make it very costly for the attacker.

The most effective militaries are those that know their limitations, and spend their budgets and resources for what gives the best bang for the buck.

Having a few great interceptors might look good on paper, but having hundreds of SAM's and thousands of AAA is even better.

 

[Gnomey]

Where did I say that I wouldn't have SAM/AAA defence. Of course behind the interceptor screen you have SAM's and AAA to catch those that the interceptors don't. Always have an alternative/back-up plan and I agree with that statement that those that know there limitations are the most effective militaries.

 

[syscom3]

I was reffering to having an effective interceptor fleet. Having a few here and there isnt going to accomplish much. If you could afford having a couple of squadrons of aircraft and the training that goes with it, then its a welcome addition.

But for most militaries, its quite expensive.

 

[plan_D]

The MoD never stated that interceptors made AA pointless, it in fact tried to state that AA could replace interceptors. Which is completely false, and they discovered it.

For an effective AA defence, you need AAA, SAM and interceptors. The interceptors are the first and most important line of defence.

 

[syscom3]

If you can afford them.

 

[plan_D]

Anyone can afford interceptors, cheap aircraft are coming from all over. Ex-Russian equipment is always good and cheap. Don't be stupid, the MoD already thought that interceptors were pointless in the 1950s and 1960s because AA and SAM could knock out the enemy aircraft - WRONG! They can't. Interceptors are the most important part of the AA defence.

You need all three. Any country can afford old MiG-21s ... and if you're a poor nation, you're normally surrounded by poor nations. So, there yah go ... on equal footing.

 

[MacArther]

On a more topic related note, anyone seen the footage of the Iraqi escape road (with vehicles) from Gulf War 1 that the A10s shredded, along with all of the occupants? Had the Russians started an armored push into Germany, the A10 would have been destroying many of their vehicles before they could do any damage to Allied territory or equipment (/personel).

 

[syscom3]

And quite a few A10's would have been shot down by the far superior and maintained Russian AAA systems.

 

[lesofprimus]

And quite a few A10's would have been shot down by the far superior and maintained Russian AAA systems.

That is 100% correct, as long as they werent carrying any anti-radiation missles...

 

[marconi]

Had the Russians started an armored push into Germany, the A10 would have been destroying many of their vehicles before they could do any damage to Allied territory or equipment (/personel).

My friend form distant land called America, I doubt that if Soviet Union ever decided to invade Europe those forces would have been advancing in the same way as Iraqi troops were running from Kuwait.I assume Russian would have brought some AA missiles, artillery and fighters with them to counter such threat.

And quite a few A10's would have been shot down by the far superior and maintained Russian AAA systems.

I don't understand why do you think so.

 

[marconi]

That is 100% correct, as long as they werent carrying any anti-radiation missles...

Maybe you wathed to say anti-nuclear missles, Les? I doubt they would die because of radiation in the middle of nuclear explosion.