Crimea_River
Marshal
Nice work you are doing.
A pair of 1/48 Ta 152's/ Ta 152 H-1 also painted!
- Thread starter Ohm-men
- Start date
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Looks great so far!
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Good stuff - a lot of work, but it'll be worth it.
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
I agree with everybody. It is very good work that you have achieved so far.
I have also heard good comments about the Lifecolor paintings. The truth with airbrush I have only used acrylic paints.
I will wait to look your painting process. I will see the option to replace some colors with this brand.
Saludos
I have also heard good comments about the Lifecolor paintings. The truth with airbrush I have only used acrylic paints.
I will wait to look your painting process. I will see the option to replace some colors with this brand.
Saludos
- Thread starter
- #45
Thanks all for the kind comments. 
Here in Belgium we are spoiled as modellers. This month alone, there are 3 model shows here, almost one every weekend, (i think at current there are about 15 model shows in Belgium alone every year, + a lot in the Netherlands and Germany. All in reach...)
So, lots of vendors, and the price of paint has come down somewhat due to the competition between the vendors I think (most of them are web shops that only do modelfairs, so no real shop. new items are more expensive at first, but drop after a month or so + a lot of "fair only promotions").
Lifecolor sets are between € 16,- tot € 18,- depending the vendor (About $ 18/20). (set of 6 paints) individual paint jar's are arround € 2.70 tot € 3,-
Almost all brands of acrylic based paint are availble now. We have Tamiya, Gunze,Humbrol, Revell, Mr color, Vallejo , Italeri, AK, MIG, Hataka and Lifecolor, etc...
Most sets are in the above price range.
Though, one of the reasons (beside the smell/health issue, etc...) I'm changing to Acrylic bases paints is that my favorite Enamel based paints are no longer availble (Model Master) or being made (Aeromaster). And these specific sets of paint are just easy to have at hand. No more mixing, sampling, researching, etc...
So far, there are few things a learned about "Acrylic paint". They are not the same. Lifecolor for instance is "Vinyl" based paint. So using alcohol is not the best way to thin them. Distilled water with a flow improver and a retarder will work much better. It also seams that Humbrol Acryl airbrush cleaner seams to work equaly as good to thin Lifecolor paints. (best use every brands own paint thinner, perhaps a bit more expensive, but less hassle and fustration...)
Tamiya and Gunze are no real "Acrylic" based paints. Same goes for Mr. Surfacer, a product that thinnes great with...laquer based thinner...(I learned the same about Tamyia and Gunze paints)
Vallejo, AK and MiG (and I presume Hataka) are different based then Lifecolor. Though, Isopropyl (or any other alcohol) is a no go for Vallejo as a thinner.
So there seam to be subtle differences in these paints too.. (it's not because the apear in the same "packaging" they are the same paints it seams...)
(To make a long story short, do your research before in order not to get stressed out once starting airbrushing these paints... And it seams washing/degreasing your model and using a good primer is mandatory when working with acrylic based paints. It's quiet another aproach then working with enamels. I thinks it's the reason Tamiya and Gunze paints are among the more popular brands as they are no "true" acrylic based paints and have about the same properties as enamel paints and are more user friendly.) I think I'll be spending some time with trial and error on "acrylic" paint...
But even though acrylic based paint is mostly odorles/ low odor, it does not mean it's harmles (though more user/health friendly). I think the same precautions as working with enamels should be respected, especially when working indoors. So work in a well ventilated room, wear a mask with a good filter, use gloves, etc...
(I had to follow a (mandatory) course for work to become the "inhouse safety and health advisor" (Result of new EU based health and safety law) and I must say the course was a true eyeopener regarding products we use at work, but they also reflected on products we use at home etc... All "spray", particles of paint/thinner moving thru air are espicially harmfull for the human organs it seams. Though we should not "overact" on these, it's just good to know that taking your precautions is good to do)
Here in Belgium we are spoiled as modellers. This month alone, there are 3 model shows here, almost one every weekend, (i think at current there are about 15 model shows in Belgium alone every year, + a lot in the Netherlands and Germany. All in reach...)
So, lots of vendors, and the price of paint has come down somewhat due to the competition between the vendors I think (most of them are web shops that only do modelfairs, so no real shop. new items are more expensive at first, but drop after a month or so + a lot of "fair only promotions").
Lifecolor sets are between € 16,- tot € 18,- depending the vendor (About $ 18/20). (set of 6 paints) individual paint jar's are arround € 2.70 tot € 3,-
Almost all brands of acrylic based paint are availble now. We have Tamiya, Gunze,Humbrol, Revell, Mr color, Vallejo , Italeri, AK, MIG, Hataka and Lifecolor, etc...
Most sets are in the above price range.
Though, one of the reasons (beside the smell/health issue, etc...) I'm changing to Acrylic bases paints is that my favorite Enamel based paints are no longer availble (Model Master) or being made (Aeromaster). And these specific sets of paint are just easy to have at hand. No more mixing, sampling, researching, etc...
So far, there are few things a learned about "Acrylic paint". They are not the same. Lifecolor for instance is "Vinyl" based paint. So using alcohol is not the best way to thin them. Distilled water with a flow improver and a retarder will work much better. It also seams that Humbrol Acryl airbrush cleaner seams to work equaly as good to thin Lifecolor paints. (best use every brands own paint thinner, perhaps a bit more expensive, but less hassle and fustration...)
Tamiya and Gunze are no real "Acrylic" based paints. Same goes for Mr. Surfacer, a product that thinnes great with...laquer based thinner...(I learned the same about Tamyia and Gunze paints)
Vallejo, AK and MiG (and I presume Hataka) are different based then Lifecolor. Though, Isopropyl (or any other alcohol) is a no go for Vallejo as a thinner.
So there seam to be subtle differences in these paints too.. (it's not because the apear in the same "packaging" they are the same paints it seams...)
(To make a long story short, do your research before in order not to get stressed out once starting airbrushing these paints... And it seams washing/degreasing your model and using a good primer is mandatory when working with acrylic based paints. It's quiet another aproach then working with enamels. I thinks it's the reason Tamiya and Gunze paints are among the more popular brands as they are no "true" acrylic based paints and have about the same properties as enamel paints and are more user friendly.) I think I'll be spending some time with trial and error on "acrylic" paint...
But even though acrylic based paint is mostly odorles/ low odor, it does not mean it's harmles (though more user/health friendly). I think the same precautions as working with enamels should be respected, especially when working indoors. So work in a well ventilated room, wear a mask with a good filter, use gloves, etc...
(I had to follow a (mandatory) course for work to become the "inhouse safety and health advisor" (Result of new EU based health and safety law) and I must say the course was a true eyeopener regarding products we use at work, but they also reflected on products we use at home etc... All "spray", particles of paint/thinner moving thru air are espicially harmfull for the human organs it seams. Though we should not "overact" on these, it's just good to know that taking your precautions is good to do)
nice work man....!
Crimea_River
Marshal
A nice synopsis of the paints. Thanks for that.
- Thread starter
- #48
I continued working on both Ta-152 models. Wings are on and fuselages are closed. (Pics to follow soon)
As I was looking into the camouflage of the Ta-152 C1, I noticed that the codes that came with the kit are not "CI+XM", but are for a different machine coded "VH+EY" with werke Nr. 110006. Hobby Boss does 3 different boxings of the Ta 152 C. (C-0, C-1 and a C1-R11) I have the C1, with the above mentioned fuselage codes and Werke. Nr. Eagle Call's has it featured on on of it's Ta 152 C decal sheet with following discription;
Ta 152 C VH + EY W. Nr. 110006 December 1944 Focke-Wulf factory Sorau The first Ta 152 C prototype completed was W. Nr. 110006 Ta 152 V6, coded VH + EY built to C-1 standards.
And this is how the aircraft should have apeared late 1944
As you can see, it bears a lot of simelarities with "CI+XM" camouflage wise, it looks almost the same. So i asume these were from the same batch.
Though here is where it get's tricky... Acourding to the 4+ monograph on the Ta 152, the "C" variant did not enter series production, though sources claim that some "C"'s were in fact used at unit level, thus highly speculative.
So, my question. Where did "VH+EY" came from? the 4+ monograph has no pictures of this airframe, nor is it even mentioned. But as Eagle Call's and Hobby Boss did these markings on their decal sheet, I presume they must of got their info from somewhere?
Edit: The Shiffer Publication on the Ta 152, claims that Kurt Tank himself flew "VH+EY on 13 December 1944. So, it could have been this particular airframe in which he outrun 2 Mustangs. Though "VH+EY" carried no armament, as he wished to remain a civilian. (Shiffer Ta 152 p.12)
So, what do the "experten" make of this?
Does any photographic evidence exists of "VH+EY" or is this a purely speculative airframe?
As I was looking into the camouflage of the Ta-152 C1, I noticed that the codes that came with the kit are not "CI+XM", but are for a different machine coded "VH+EY" with werke Nr. 110006. Hobby Boss does 3 different boxings of the Ta 152 C. (C-0, C-1 and a C1-R11) I have the C1, with the above mentioned fuselage codes and Werke. Nr. Eagle Call's has it featured on on of it's Ta 152 C decal sheet with following discription;
Ta 152 C VH + EY W. Nr. 110006 December 1944 Focke-Wulf factory Sorau The first Ta 152 C prototype completed was W. Nr. 110006 Ta 152 V6, coded VH + EY built to C-1 standards.
And this is how the aircraft should have apeared late 1944
As you can see, it bears a lot of simelarities with "CI+XM" camouflage wise, it looks almost the same. So i asume these were from the same batch.
Though here is where it get's tricky... Acourding to the 4+ monograph on the Ta 152, the "C" variant did not enter series production, though sources claim that some "C"'s were in fact used at unit level, thus highly speculative.
So, my question. Where did "VH+EY" came from? the 4+ monograph has no pictures of this airframe, nor is it even mentioned. But as Eagle Call's and Hobby Boss did these markings on their decal sheet, I presume they must of got their info from somewhere?
Edit: The Shiffer Publication on the Ta 152, claims that Kurt Tank himself flew "VH+EY on 13 December 1944. So, it could have been this particular airframe in which he outrun 2 Mustangs. Though "VH+EY" carried no armament, as he wished to remain a civilian. (Shiffer Ta 152 p.12)
So, what do the "experten" make of this?
Does any photographic evidence exists of "VH+EY" or is this a purely speculative airframe?
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Haven't found a photo, but some information from the book "Focke Wulf FW190 and Ta152" by Heinz J Nowarra, shows that W.Nr 110006 was the third prototype, Ta152V6, codes VH + EY, and was completed on 2 December 1944, with its maiden flight on 17 December. Unlike its two predecessors, this aircraft was powered by a DB 603 LA.
Ta 152V7 was built four weeks later, codes CI + XM, W.Nr 110007, and was the prototype for the Ta 152C-O/R11 all-weather fighter, test flying beginning on 10 March 1945 at Langenhagen.
Ta 152V7 was built four weeks later, codes CI + XM, W.Nr 110007, and was the prototype for the Ta 152C-O/R11 all-weather fighter, test flying beginning on 10 March 1945 at Langenhagen.
- Thread starter
- #50
Thanks for the input, I dug into the same volume and found these two pictures of 110 006.
I suspect the larger bulge above the air intake on the fuselage for the DB 603 LA, makes this indeed "VH+EY" From what I understand, the D 603 LA requiered a larger engine barrer. Hobby Boss does include this larger bulged piece in their kit (with the smaller one as well, which I remodelled to be used with the Falcon Ta 152 H)
Also a very small piece of the "V" can be made out just barely at the right side of the picture.(It does not strike me as a "I", so I'm pretty sure it's indeed 110 006)
There also seams to be a small flame damper shield just in front of the air intake. Hobby Boss missed this, so I might scratch build it. Seams to make sense to add this shield to prevent flames and/or exhaust gasses entering the air intake.
I think this is the same airframe after it's dimise, being blown up by the Luftwaffe to prevent it falling into allied hands. The captation of this pic reads:
"Blown up Ta-152 C with DB 603 LA engine at ATG in Leipzig-Mock-Au after the war"
Though no fuselage codes, nor werke nr. can be made out in this picture, I asume it's the same airframe.
So, as far as the Kurt Tank story goes regarding the aircraft being unarmed, I think it might be possible, the pic of the wrecked aircraft shows no barrels protruding the wings and even though it's unclear, I can't make out any gun barrels either aft of the engine...
Hobby Boss instructions do want you to add the wing and engine aramament, but the tell you not to install the gunsight.... A bit strange...
So now that it's pretty clear the airframe existed, I'm gonna go forward with it. Though as the first pic shows barrels in the wing, I'll include the gunsight as well.
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The second pic with it's back broken is not the same aircraft as the first image.
Image 1 clearly has the front under wing section likely painted in RLM76 and the rear half unpainted. The second does not have the same clear paint to unpainted division, looks like it is entirely painted....
Image 1 clearly has the front under wing section likely painted in RLM76 and the rear half unpainted. The second does not have the same clear paint to unpainted division, looks like it is entirely painted....
- Thread starter
- #52
That's a very interesting observation Wayne. Makes sense, as there seams to be actually very little known about the exact number of Ta 152 C production. And given the fact that at the last stage of the war many Fw 190 variant went to front line service with partialy unpainted underwings, fuselage plugs etc, due to paint shortages, it's indeed likely it's not the same aircraft.
- Thread starter
- #53
Both models have progressed a bit further.
I Installed everything in the fuselages and closed the up. Pretty straightforward for the Hobby Boss Ta 152 C, a bit more work for the Falcon Ta 152 H
First the engines and the made up exhaust for the "H"
I added a triangle made from plastic card, opened up and painted RLM 02 to create some kind of structure aft of the engines, as seen in some pictures of the real aircraft. Though, once closed up, very litte of it will be seen. Hence the reason I decided not to add all the wiring at the bottom of the engines, since there is less engine visible thru the wheel well then on a Fw 190 D, as the Ta had a longer nose and the engine was place more forward.
I Installed everything in the fuselages and closed the up. Pretty straightforward for the Hobby Boss Ta 152 C, a bit more work for the Falcon Ta 152 H
First the engines and the made up exhaust for the "H"
I added a triangle made from plastic card, opened up and painted RLM 02 to create some kind of structure aft of the engines, as seen in some pictures of the real aircraft. Though, once closed up, very litte of it will be seen. Hence the reason I decided not to add all the wiring at the bottom of the engines, since there is less engine visible thru the wheel well then on a Fw 190 D, as the Ta had a longer nose and the engine was place more forward.
Great work so far!
- Thread starter
- #56
I've done a bit more and both models have got the wings on, fuselages closed, tailplanes attached and both start to look like Ta 152's.
The Falcon kit was a bit more work then anticipated at first, but still doable. I think most of it was due to user error (my own fault and complicating things a bit more by inserting other kit parts) but I think I managed to line up everything up. I think I oversanded the fuselage a tiny bit to make the Dragon/Revell/Hobby Boss parts fit.
The wing route/fuselelage attachement is a weaker point here. lots of putty and sanding. But I'm happy how it turned out so far.
I learned that scribing and rivetting is best done after the vacu parts are glued and sanded to shape. I have to redo some of the work now...
The Hobby Boss Ta 152 C is a breeze to build and a very good guideline for the Falcon Ta 152 H. Everytime I got stuck with the Falcon kit, I build the simelar sequience on the Hobby Boss and this cleared things up. I have a few vac kits in my stash of which I have simelar injection moulded kits of as well, so the twin build method would be a good idea to use with those as well.
I still have to take pics of my progress, but I'll hope to post these soon.
The Falcon kit was a bit more work then anticipated at first, but still doable. I think most of it was due to user error (my own fault and complicating things a bit more by inserting other kit parts) but I think I managed to line up everything up. I think I oversanded the fuselage a tiny bit to make the Dragon/Revell/Hobby Boss parts fit.
The wing route/fuselelage attachement is a weaker point here. lots of putty and sanding. But I'm happy how it turned out so far.
I learned that scribing and rivetting is best done after the vacu parts are glued and sanded to shape. I have to redo some of the work now...
The Hobby Boss Ta 152 C is a breeze to build and a very good guideline for the Falcon Ta 152 H. Everytime I got stuck with the Falcon kit, I build the simelar sequience on the Hobby Boss and this cleared things up. I have a few vac kits in my stash of which I have simelar injection moulded kits of as well, so the twin build method would be a good idea to use with those as well.
I still have to take pics of my progress, but I'll hope to post these soon.
Crimea_River
Marshal
Sounds like a master plan.
- Thread starter
- #59
Hi All! I've made some progress again on the two Ta 152 models.
First the Falcon Ta 152 H;
I had to use quiet some putty as expected, but nothing too serious. I used combination of Tamiya's Grey putty and some Vallejo PPP.
This was followed by a few layers of Mr. Surfacer 1000 to smooth things out. And some wet and dry sanding with some micropads to make the "surgery" ready for a layer of primer.
Next the Hobby Boss Ta 152 C;
Only a bit of putty at the wing roots and the conection of the lowe wing. Easy peasy...
And this was followed by some Vallejo black primer. I must say that the new Vallejo paint is great. I used their own thinner and added a drop or two of their flow improver. Paint went on smoothly with my Iwatta Airbrush. I'm seriously considering picking up a Vallejo Air Luftwaffe paint set to finish these models as it's great to work with and odorless... Though still need a bit of practice with this paint before I can start doing fine "Mottle" patterns.
And the main reason this update took longer then anticipated was that I finally managed to improve my workspace!
I added a new larger "top" to my workbench(+ 40% more workspace) and I found a real nice desk storrage system at my local supermarket for little money! Equiped with little drawers that can store up to 6 paint tins of Humbrol and Revell paint and the larger ones are great for the Lifecolor paint. At the bottom there are plastic boxes with a lid, that can store paintbrushes, Airbrushes and larger tools. + still plenty of space for modelling related tools,spare parts, etc... So, here's the result.
First the Falcon Ta 152 H;
I had to use quiet some putty as expected, but nothing too serious. I used combination of Tamiya's Grey putty and some Vallejo PPP.
This was followed by a few layers of Mr. Surfacer 1000 to smooth things out. And some wet and dry sanding with some micropads to make the "surgery" ready for a layer of primer.
Next the Hobby Boss Ta 152 C;
Only a bit of putty at the wing roots and the conection of the lowe wing. Easy peasy...
And this was followed by some Vallejo black primer. I must say that the new Vallejo paint is great. I used their own thinner and added a drop or two of their flow improver. Paint went on smoothly with my Iwatta Airbrush. I'm seriously considering picking up a Vallejo Air Luftwaffe paint set to finish these models as it's great to work with and odorless... Though still need a bit of practice with this paint before I can start doing fine "Mottle" patterns.
And the main reason this update took longer then anticipated was that I finally managed to improve my workspace!
I added a new larger "top" to my workbench(+ 40% more workspace) and I found a real nice desk storrage system at my local supermarket for little money! Equiped with little drawers that can store up to 6 paint tins of Humbrol and Revell paint and the larger ones are great for the Lifecolor paint. At the bottom there are plastic boxes with a lid, that can store paintbrushes, Airbrushes and larger tools. + still plenty of space for modelling related tools,spare parts, etc... So, here's the result.
