The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
A380 Engine Failure
- Thread starter beaupower32
- Start date
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Matt308
Glock Perfection
I've been on each end of a fuel dump. Flying on a 747 which dumped 26,000lbs (as I recall) and being misted in my front yard from a 777 that suffered a compressor stall. Once I calmed down after seeing 30ft flames shooting out of the port engine while making HUGE earth shaking repetative booms, the latter left an oily mess all over my vehicles as it turned out over the Puget Sound for an immediate return to Seattle-Tacoma airport.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Basket they do that with every turbine powered Part 25 transport category airplane. It's a test. Not an assurance. And rotorburst accidents still occur.
tail end charlie
Senior Airman
- 615
- Aug 24, 2010
Am I missing something or did a plane crash? I thought it lost one of four engines, it is not unusual to hear of a twin engines passenger plane like an airbus or boeing 777 turning back after losing an engine the 380 is a new plane so its news
like "earthquake in chile, not many dead"
like "earthquake in chile, not many dead"
Matt308
Glock Perfection
It's big news actually for two reasons.
First, an engine of that size and thrust disentegrating is very uncommon. The amount of energy that such an huge engine failure must contain without incident is hugely impressive.
Second, God Forbid a Thousand Times, the first time a full A380 goes down it will be world news.
First, an engine of that size and thrust disentegrating is very uncommon. The amount of energy that such an huge engine failure must contain without incident is hugely impressive.
Second, God Forbid a Thousand Times, the first time a full A380 goes down it will be world news.
tail end charlie
Senior Airman
- 615
- Aug 24, 2010
I dont know how big a failure it was, people heard a bang and saw things coming out of the engine lets see what the investigation says, I dont know that a bird strike has been eliminated yet.
drgondog
Major
sounds like a possible burner can/combustion issue..
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I don't know what you're basing that statement on but I totally disagree. I have worked on certification programs and if anything the Feds many times drag their feet until certification programs are beat to death and every "I" and "T" are dotted and crossed. I don't know any aircraft flying in the US that was certificated by the FAA that wasn't thoroughly tested before being placed into production and especially certificated under FAR 25 and I'd like you to name one aircraft that received a TC in this country that wasn't fully tested. There will always be some type of post-certification problem on any aircraft and that's why you have Airworthiness Directives.
Generally sub-tires manufacture cowlings. When I worked for Rohr Industries that was one of our main product lines. Cowl doors open commonly and I would say the majority of them are due to human error.
I just saw the news clip on this incident and as usual the media is making it more than what it is. In these days these high performance engines shouldn't fail like this but as long as an aircraft operates any time of turbine engine, there is always a possibility of this type of failure
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vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Hmmm perhaps Boeing has perfected an Airbus Gremlin.
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Hey guys, any flying has its risks as does driving your car, QANTAS had the same problem with a 747 not so long back when the outer stbd engine blew a fan blade. It's an engine issue guys and at least QANTAS did the right thing and grounded the A-380 fleet immediately until investigations by RR are done.
As for the A-380, it's a nice quiet and comfortable flyer, this I can vouch for with Singapore and like any aircraft flying, is can be susceptible to a problem or two, let's just be grateful that this incident was manageable.
As for the A-380, it's a nice quiet and comfortable flyer, this I can vouch for with Singapore and like any aircraft flying, is can be susceptible to a problem or two, let's just be grateful that this incident was manageable.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Like the MD-80 that killed a couple of people. Like I said, extremely rare. And catastrophic failures even more rare, but they still occur, they are mitigated by more than just a kevlar surround. Zonal analyses are done in similar fashion to military damage tolerance analyses. They look are structural redundancy, electrical isolation and hydraulic separation of systems and equipment. The engine shroud is only the first of many means of mitigating risks to hull loss.
drgondog
Major
An update from AVweb.com Newsflash
"Qantas A380 Was Heavily Damaged
The Qantas crew whose A380 suffered an uncontained engine failure earlier this month had their hands full in getting the super jumbo back to Singapore. Shrapnel from the engine disabled one of two main hydraulic systems, hampered the fuel transfer system, punched a hole in the forward wing spar and caused a major fuel leak. The cascading nature of such failures meant the pilots couldn't dump enough fuel to bring the aircraft down to its maximum landing weight and the fuel left in the airplane was unbalanced. Flaps, slats and spoilers couldn't be fully deployed and the gear had to be dropped manually. Once it was on the ground, the anti-lock brakes didn't work and, since the damaged engine was an inboard one, there was only one left for reverse thrust (the outboard engines of A380s don't have reversers because they often overhang the grass and might be FOD damaged). The heavy, significantly disabled aircraft needed virtually all of the 13,123 feet of available runway. The whole wing might have to be replaced and the aircraft is expected to be out of commission for months. Meanwhile, the cause of the engine problem has been determined and it's just adding to the PR problems facing manufacturer Rolls-Royce."
What a ride...
"Qantas A380 Was Heavily Damaged
The Qantas crew whose A380 suffered an uncontained engine failure earlier this month had their hands full in getting the super jumbo back to Singapore. Shrapnel from the engine disabled one of two main hydraulic systems, hampered the fuel transfer system, punched a hole in the forward wing spar and caused a major fuel leak. The cascading nature of such failures meant the pilots couldn't dump enough fuel to bring the aircraft down to its maximum landing weight and the fuel left in the airplane was unbalanced. Flaps, slats and spoilers couldn't be fully deployed and the gear had to be dropped manually. Once it was on the ground, the anti-lock brakes didn't work and, since the damaged engine was an inboard one, there was only one left for reverse thrust (the outboard engines of A380s don't have reversers because they often overhang the grass and might be FOD damaged). The heavy, significantly disabled aircraft needed virtually all of the 13,123 feet of available runway. The whole wing might have to be replaced and the aircraft is expected to be out of commission for months. Meanwhile, the cause of the engine problem has been determined and it's just adding to the PR problems facing manufacturer Rolls-Royce."
What a ride...
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Intermediate stage turbine ring total failure. Cracks found in other RR engines.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Major AD hitting the streets as we speak!
Today a Lufthansa A-380 destined for Tokyo had to return to parking while taxing out to the runway in Frankfurt. The crew reported vibrations and were concerned the nose gear was not operating properly.
The gear was checked out and the aircraft then returned to service. It did not make the flight to Tokyo, the passengers took off on another A-380, but it will fly to S. Africa on Monday.
The gear was checked out and the aircraft then returned to service. It did not make the flight to Tokyo, the passengers took off on another A-380, but it will fly to S. Africa on Monday.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Dam.
Wildcat
Major
Wow, all credit to the pilot and crew.
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
By ROHAN SULLIVAN and GREG KELLER, Associated Press Rohan Sullivan And Greg Keller, Associated Press – 29 mins ago
SYDNEY – As many as half of the 80 Rolls-Royce engines that power some of the world's largest jetliners may have to be replaced after an oil leak caused a fire and the partial disintegration of one on a Qantas flight this month, the Australian national airline's chief executive said Thursday.
The 40 potentially faulty engines on the Airbus A380 would need to be replaced with new engines while the fault is fixed, raising the spectre of engine shortages that could delay future deliveries of the 7-story-tall superjumbo.
It was not clear how serious the problem would be, but the comments by Qantas CEO Alan Joyce were the most definite accounting yet of a problem that now appears larger than first imagined when one of his airline's engines came apart over Indonesia, spewing metal shrapnel into a wing and severing vital operating systems.
Qantas has grounded its fleet of six A380s, each powered by four of the giant Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine. Joyce told reporters that Qantas may have to replace 14 engines, each worth about $10 million.
Rolls-Royce has indicated that the number of engines that needed to be replaced was "40 engines worldwide," he said.
"That's what they think they'll have to change," he said.
Rolls-Royce has remained virtually silent since Nov. 4 as its stock price has dropped. The company was scheduled to hold a news conference at a major biennial air show in the southern Chinese city of Zhuhai in Wednesday, but canceled it, without giving a reason.
An Airbus spokesman couldn't immediately be reached for comment.
Lufthansa said it will only have to change one of the Trent 900 engines on its three A380s. Singapore Airlines, which flies 11 of the superjumbos, declined to comment on whether it may have to change as many as 25 engines.
Aviation regulators have said Rolls-Royce intends to provide new engines to put on planes while the faulty ones are repaired. Airlines typically keep some spares, and Airbus has talked of sending replacement engines from its assembly lines, but the need to replace 40 engines could still cause significant disruption to airline schedules.
"Rolls-Royce are still working through the criteria for which engines need to be changed," Joyce said. "We're hoping to understand precisely which engines need to be replaced and therefore we can have a firm timeline for when they will be back in the air, but we are still a few days away from that."
Rolls-Royce shares were fluctuating on the London Stock Exchange on Thursday. By early afternoon, they were marginally higher — up 0.1 percent at 600 pence — erasing small losses in the morning session. The stock has now lost around 8.6 percent since Nov. 4, but it started to make up some ground on Wednesday when it rose 1.8 percent after the company announced a new marine contract and its share of an engine contract to Brazil's TAM Airlines.
Investigators say leaking oil caught fire in the Qantas engine on Nov. 4 and heated metal parts, causing them to disintegrate. Experts say chunks of flying metal cut hydraulics and an engine-control line in the wing of the A380, causing the pilots to lose control of the second engine and some of the brake panels on the damaged wing in a situation far more serious than originally portrayed by Qantas.
The Sydney-bound flight returned to Singapore where it made an emergency landing, safely ending the most serious safety incident for the world's newest and largest passenger plane.
The European air-safety regulator last week issued an urgent order requiring all operators of Trent 900 engines to conduct repeated inspections of several parts, including the oil service tubes, to ensure there was no "abnormal" leakage. If any such leaks are found, the airlines are prohibited from using the engines.
Qantas says three Trent 900 engines have been removed in addition to the one that blew out. Singapore Airlines and Lufthansa briefly grounded some of their planes after the Qantas scare but returned all but one them to service after conducting safety checks.
Singapore Airlines has said it replaced three Trent 900s. Lufthansa replaced one but said the reason was unrelated to the Qantas blowout.
Singapore Airlines hasn't been told how many of its Rolls Royce engines need to be replaced, and is continuing to fly all of its A380s in the meantime, the airline's Vice President for Public Affairs Nicholas Ionides said.
Lufthansa spokesman Thomas Jachnow said the German airline will only have to change one of its Trent 900 engines. "The talks are over now with Rolls Royce and Lufthansa, and the result is that we are lucky — only one engine neds to be changed," Jachnow said.
Rolls-Royce said Friday that it would be replacing modules, or sections of linked parts, aboard Trent 900 engines that were found to have oil leaks, but provided no other details.
Joyce said Rolls-Royce had ordered modifications on parts of the Trent 900 engines and indicated it had done so before the Nov. 4 incident. But there was no early indication to Qantas that the modification was significant.
"Rolls-Royce have gone and modified certain parts of this engine," he said. "If this was significant and was known to be significant, we would have liked to have known about that ... We and Airbus weren't aware of it.
"But it depends on what the purpose of modifications were for," Joyce added. "It doesn't look like it's a significant modification, but it is a modification that has an impact on how the engines are performing. And it is a modification that indicates whether you are going to have a problem or not with the engine."
Airbus has said new Trent 900s coming off the production line should not have the oil leak problem, but says the changes were ordered after the Qantas incident. It has denied an Australian newspaper's report that an Airbus executive said Rolls-Royce started making changes to some versions of the engine before Nov. 4.
Joyce said the normal procedure for nonurgent modifications ordered by an engine manufacturer is to make the change when the engine is next brought in for routine maintenance.
"If this incident hadn't occurred, eventually all these engines would have had this modification," he said. "Now, because it is an indicator, we are not taking any risks. We're taking the engines off and making sure this modification is in place before the engines are put back on the aircraft."
The other airlines that fly A380s, Dubai's Emirates and Air France, use engines built by Engine Alliance, a 50/50 joint venture between GE Aircraft Engines and Pratt Whitney.
Airbus has received orders for 234 of its A380s, which sell for list price of $346.3 million. A total of 38 of the aircraft have been delivered. Emirates and Qantas are the biggest customers for the jet, with 58 and 20 total orders so far.
In the first nine months of the year, Airbus delivered 14 A380s and took in 32 new orders.
___
Associated Press Writers Christopher Bodeen in Zhuhai, China, Rod McGuirk in Canberra, Australia, Alex Kennedy in Singapore and David Rising in Berlin contributed to this report.
SYDNEY – As many as half of the 80 Rolls-Royce engines that power some of the world's largest jetliners may have to be replaced after an oil leak caused a fire and the partial disintegration of one on a Qantas flight this month, the Australian national airline's chief executive said Thursday.
The 40 potentially faulty engines on the Airbus A380 would need to be replaced with new engines while the fault is fixed, raising the spectre of engine shortages that could delay future deliveries of the 7-story-tall superjumbo.
It was not clear how serious the problem would be, but the comments by Qantas CEO Alan Joyce were the most definite accounting yet of a problem that now appears larger than first imagined when one of his airline's engines came apart over Indonesia, spewing metal shrapnel into a wing and severing vital operating systems.
Qantas has grounded its fleet of six A380s, each powered by four of the giant Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine. Joyce told reporters that Qantas may have to replace 14 engines, each worth about $10 million.
Rolls-Royce has indicated that the number of engines that needed to be replaced was "40 engines worldwide," he said.
"That's what they think they'll have to change," he said.
Rolls-Royce has remained virtually silent since Nov. 4 as its stock price has dropped. The company was scheduled to hold a news conference at a major biennial air show in the southern Chinese city of Zhuhai in Wednesday, but canceled it, without giving a reason.
An Airbus spokesman couldn't immediately be reached for comment.
Lufthansa said it will only have to change one of the Trent 900 engines on its three A380s. Singapore Airlines, which flies 11 of the superjumbos, declined to comment on whether it may have to change as many as 25 engines.
Aviation regulators have said Rolls-Royce intends to provide new engines to put on planes while the faulty ones are repaired. Airlines typically keep some spares, and Airbus has talked of sending replacement engines from its assembly lines, but the need to replace 40 engines could still cause significant disruption to airline schedules.
"Rolls-Royce are still working through the criteria for which engines need to be changed," Joyce said. "We're hoping to understand precisely which engines need to be replaced and therefore we can have a firm timeline for when they will be back in the air, but we are still a few days away from that."
Rolls-Royce shares were fluctuating on the London Stock Exchange on Thursday. By early afternoon, they were marginally higher — up 0.1 percent at 600 pence — erasing small losses in the morning session. The stock has now lost around 8.6 percent since Nov. 4, but it started to make up some ground on Wednesday when it rose 1.8 percent after the company announced a new marine contract and its share of an engine contract to Brazil's TAM Airlines.
Investigators say leaking oil caught fire in the Qantas engine on Nov. 4 and heated metal parts, causing them to disintegrate. Experts say chunks of flying metal cut hydraulics and an engine-control line in the wing of the A380, causing the pilots to lose control of the second engine and some of the brake panels on the damaged wing in a situation far more serious than originally portrayed by Qantas.
The Sydney-bound flight returned to Singapore where it made an emergency landing, safely ending the most serious safety incident for the world's newest and largest passenger plane.
The European air-safety regulator last week issued an urgent order requiring all operators of Trent 900 engines to conduct repeated inspections of several parts, including the oil service tubes, to ensure there was no "abnormal" leakage. If any such leaks are found, the airlines are prohibited from using the engines.
Qantas says three Trent 900 engines have been removed in addition to the one that blew out. Singapore Airlines and Lufthansa briefly grounded some of their planes after the Qantas scare but returned all but one them to service after conducting safety checks.
Singapore Airlines has said it replaced three Trent 900s. Lufthansa replaced one but said the reason was unrelated to the Qantas blowout.
Singapore Airlines hasn't been told how many of its Rolls Royce engines need to be replaced, and is continuing to fly all of its A380s in the meantime, the airline's Vice President for Public Affairs Nicholas Ionides said.
Lufthansa spokesman Thomas Jachnow said the German airline will only have to change one of its Trent 900 engines. "The talks are over now with Rolls Royce and Lufthansa, and the result is that we are lucky — only one engine neds to be changed," Jachnow said.
Rolls-Royce said Friday that it would be replacing modules, or sections of linked parts, aboard Trent 900 engines that were found to have oil leaks, but provided no other details.
Joyce said Rolls-Royce had ordered modifications on parts of the Trent 900 engines and indicated it had done so before the Nov. 4 incident. But there was no early indication to Qantas that the modification was significant.
"Rolls-Royce have gone and modified certain parts of this engine," he said. "If this was significant and was known to be significant, we would have liked to have known about that ... We and Airbus weren't aware of it.
"But it depends on what the purpose of modifications were for," Joyce added. "It doesn't look like it's a significant modification, but it is a modification that has an impact on how the engines are performing. And it is a modification that indicates whether you are going to have a problem or not with the engine."
Airbus has said new Trent 900s coming off the production line should not have the oil leak problem, but says the changes were ordered after the Qantas incident. It has denied an Australian newspaper's report that an Airbus executive said Rolls-Royce started making changes to some versions of the engine before Nov. 4.
Joyce said the normal procedure for nonurgent modifications ordered by an engine manufacturer is to make the change when the engine is next brought in for routine maintenance.
"If this incident hadn't occurred, eventually all these engines would have had this modification," he said. "Now, because it is an indicator, we are not taking any risks. We're taking the engines off and making sure this modification is in place before the engines are put back on the aircraft."
The other airlines that fly A380s, Dubai's Emirates and Air France, use engines built by Engine Alliance, a 50/50 joint venture between GE Aircraft Engines and Pratt Whitney.
Airbus has received orders for 234 of its A380s, which sell for list price of $346.3 million. A total of 38 of the aircraft have been delivered. Emirates and Qantas are the biggest customers for the jet, with 58 and 20 total orders so far.
In the first nine months of the year, Airbus delivered 14 A380s and took in 32 new orders.
___
Associated Press Writers Christopher Bodeen in Zhuhai, China, Rod McGuirk in Canberra, Australia, Alex Kennedy in Singapore and David Rising in Berlin contributed to this report.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
That's amazing, and at $10 million each.
