Air france flight from Brazil to Paris

[pbfoot]

whatever (lightning, electrical, structural, bomb) - it was a sudden and complete catastrophic failure with not even a peep from the flight crew.

maybe they will find some seat cushions or even a fuel cell

I don't think there is much in the SAR equipment in that hemisphere so getting the crews and such there may take days before they could mount a proper search they have one P3 and 20 Hercs in Brazil but I fear that might be beyond their capabilities , another thing to ponder is if their ATC system has improved since the Legacy/GOL midair

 

[Matt308]

Even if there was a controlled landing on the water, doesnt the emergency locator beacons start working?

The ELTs would start working as soon as they got wet. Same with the recorder underwater locating devices. But the 406MHz ELT satellite coverage may not include the area around the Azores. But I've been asking the same questions. With Brazil and France both sending extensive SAR airborne assets, I would have thought that they would have found the wreckage by now.

Indications are that a data link message was sent indicating loss of cabin pressure. Without masks, you have only a score of seconds before you are completely incapacitated. And that in and of itslef would likely be catastrophic. Especially if the flightcrew was fighting multiple emergencies preventing them from aviating their airplane.

Truly sad.

 

[syscom3]

Matt, even if electrical power fails due to a dual complete engine failure, isnt there battery power to operate the instruments for emergency use? Just long enough for a pilot to hit a panic button or for the automated message system to get more information transmitted?

And considering that this might be the first modern low air time "heavy" aircraft to [possibly] fail catastrophically in mid air due to turbulence, something just doesnt add up.

I hope I am wrong, but maybe this is a terror attack. Just like to that Air India Flight 182 in 1985.

 

[Vassili Zaitzev]

Still hoping for the best, although I can imagine the seas in the Atlantic wouldn't be favorable for a water landing during a thunderstorm.

 

[Matt308]

Matt, even if electrical power fails due to a dual complete engine failure, isnt there battery power to operate the instruments for emergency use? Just long enough for a pilot to hit a panic button or for the automated message system to get more information transmitted?.

Yeah sys there are multiple degradations that can occur in a modern Part 25 airplane. First you have multiple levels of electrical busses that allow load shedding under ideal scenarios. I'm not an electrical expert of the A330 in particular, but can tell you that electrical degradation can include:

* Starting the auxilary power unit (APU) if both engines fail.

* Load shed of various systems on electrical busses based upon critical electrical load support of continued safe flight and landing of the airplane (e.g., the galley is the first to go and the flight controls last)

* Deployment of Ram Air Turbines (RATs) to generate electricity (i.e., think of the Me-163 nose 'prop")

* Permanant magnet generators in the engines that allow electrical power even if 'windmilling'

* Battery backup that is required to operate critical electrical loads for 30 minutes for Part 25 airplanes.

As you can see the electrical redundancy is rather phenomenal.

And considering that this might be the first modern low air time "heavy" aircraft to [possibly] fail catastrophically in mid air due to turbulence, something just doesnt add up.

I hope I am wrong, but maybe this is a terror attack. Just like to that Air India Flight 182 in 1985.

Nobody has said "turbulence" had anything to do with the loss of hull. Rather this was just a state of the environment. Only thing in the news is that the aircraft condition monitoring system reported an 'electrical anomoly' (whatever that might be.. overvoltage? undervoltage? loadshed scenario? system loss?, etc) and that cabin depressurization occurred. The latter certainly might be catastrophic. But then we can make suppositions all damn day. Hell it might have been another fuel tank explosion from a direct lighting strike for all we know.

But terror attack? No evidence... yet. But remember Egypt Air off of Nantucket? That was the 767 that went down with the pilot screaming Allah Akbar the whole way in, evidence that he had home problems, and the co-pilot conveniently in the shitter. But that is another story where the flag carrier was representing a country (Egypt) whose primary income is tourism. So certainly their own investigation findings were not influenced by economic needs.

We are just gonna have to wait.

 

[Arsenal VG-33]

Accoring to the latest RF 1 radio report, some debris has been spotted far off the Senegal coast. So far all signs point to a break-up of the aircraft while at altitude. I heard on the news that they suspect that the aircraft flew right into a storm system. Their radar may have spotted the storm , but that they did not know the density of the storm system, therefore unknowingly flew into the thick of it at nighttime.

Can one assume then, that all passengers died at high altitude before the aircraft hit the sea? Horrible scenario in any case.

 

[Matt308]

Likely if they lost cabin pressurization at altitude. But only if. Otherwise, that is a long fall of terror.

 

[Thorlifter]

Man, this is just a sad story.

 

[GrauGeist]

Man, what a terrible event...

That region is known for spawning tropical storms, some becoming hurricanes.

 

[Von Frag]

So the sent signal indicating electrical failure and loss of cabin pressure was maybe the indication of a/c breakup?

 

[Matt308]

No. Just a data link sent by the onboard maintenance diagnostics. Typically these typse of messages are used for pre-positioning/planning of maintenance personnel/material. In this case, they appear to be somewhat telling. But then again, their contributions to the accident...?

 

[Burmese Bandit]

One thing I pray for...

It seems as if barring an absolute miracle worthy of being included in Guiness and Ripley's believe it or not, all those on board are gone.

Thus the only thing left to pray for is that there is enough physical evidence, and political will, to discover the complete truth behind this catastrophe. For this is an ALMOST BRAND NEW AIRCRAFT with a TOTALLY NEW CONCEPT - the totally electric and electronic fly-by-wire system. It is designed to be almost indestructible, and even when Murphy's law kicks in, NEVER TO BE DESTROYED WITHOUT WARNING.

And yet it WAS destroyed with NO WARNING. Well, almost none.

What went wrong?

Let's find out...without any coverup by the EU powers that be, who have a HUGE financial stake in Airbus.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

One thing I pray for...

It seems as if barring an absolute miracle worthy of being included in Guiness and Ripley's believe it or not, all those on board are gone.

Thus the only thing left to pray for is that there is enough physical evidence, and political will, to discover the complete truth behind this catastrophe. For this is an ALMOST BRAND NEW AIRCRAFT with a TOTALLY NEW CONCEPT - the totally electric and electronic fly-by-wire system. It is designed to be almost indestructible, and even when Murphy's law kicks in, NEVER TO BE DESTROYED WITHOUT WARNING.

And yet it WAS destroyed with NO WARNING. Well, almost none.

What went wrong?

Let's find out...without any coverup by the EU powers that be, who have a HUGE financial stake in Airbus.

Fly by wire IS NOT a new concept and been around for a few years and before we start even mentioning "cover-up" lets find some wreckage or evidence of what happened and then press on.

 

[Cota1992]

Man I really feel for the families. It has to be horrible enough to know you've lost a loved one in a crash but in this day and age to not know for a few days and not have any answers has to be just beyond words.
Prayers for everyone in this.
Art

 

[Matt308]

Brazilian AF is reporting they have found what appears to be a debris field about 700 miles of the coast of Brazil. The debris field and oil slick appears to be over wide 40 mile area in length. Ships are underway to the field. The water depth there is 13,000ft.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Can one assume then, that all passengers died at high altitude before the aircraft hit the sea? Horrible scenario in any case.

I do not believe they would have died due to the high altitude, but they certainly would have lost consciousness. Lets hope they were not aware of what was going on...

Fly by wire IS NOT a new concept and been around for a few years and before we start even mentioning "cover-up" lets find some wreckage or evidence of what happened and then press on.

Exactly, none of us are in a position to really speculate. There are just to many things that could happened. Lets just hope they can find the wreck and can find out what happened.

On a side not, this was only the 2nd Crash of an A-330 since 1994 when one crashed in France on a test flight. There have been several mishaps, but this is only the 2nd crash of an A-330.

Brazilian AF is reporting they have found what appears to be a debris field about 700 miles of the coast of Brazil. The debris field and oil slick appears to be over wide 40 mile area in length. Ships are underway to the field. The water depth there is 13,000ft.

At that depth it makes you wonder if they will be able to find the flight data recorders.

 

[Vassili Zaitzev]

At that depth it makes you wonder if they will be able to find the flight data recorders.

Adler, what was the depth for flight TWA 800?

 

[syscom3]

I think that this aircrash was so unusual, there will be a big effort to find the debris/recorders and recover as much as possible.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Adler, what was the depth for flight TWA 800?

Not that deep. It was 9 miles off of the coast at a depth of 120 feet.

 

[Vassili Zaitzev]

Not that deep. It was 9 miles off of the coast at a depth of 120 feet.

Okay, thanks. Just thought if there was a crash as deep as this one.