strega
Recruit
Mohawk said:
wow great Mohawk ..... not bad for a Spitfire fan
Aircraft Identification Thread 2
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wow great Mohawk ..... not bad for a Spitfire fan
KraziKanuK
Banned
- 792
- Jan 26, 2005
strega said:Mohawk said:
wow great Mohawk ..... not bad for a Spitfire fan
The designation was still Fw 190 V32/U1 for GH+KV.
cheddar cheese
Major General
Yes it was. It wasnt actually the Prototype for that Ta-153, it was simply a testbed for the wings.
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
You are un the rigth track, it is the BF-109V-31
cheddar cheese
Major General
Apparently there were 80 prototypes for the Fw-190A... 
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Seems to the german really like prototipes.
Talking about weird stuff, look at this.
This little aircraft wich reminds at Mirage IIIA, is the supersonic fighter FMA IA-37. roll out in 1954.
Designed By Horten in colaboration with Kurt Tank ( we was short of designers is those days
) It never had his promised Rolls Royce Avon engines, and flew only as a glider, showing good caracteristics.
The downfall of Peron in 1955, caused that the germans technicians leave the country in early 1956, and this projetk was stopped completely.
Talking about weird stuff, look at this.
This little aircraft wich reminds at Mirage IIIA, is the supersonic fighter FMA IA-37. roll out in 1954.
Designed By Horten in colaboration with Kurt Tank ( we was short of designers is those days
) It never had his promised Rolls Royce Avon engines, and flew only as a glider, showing good caracteristics.The downfall of Peron in 1955, caused that the germans technicians leave the country in early 1956, and this projetk was stopped completely.
Nonskimmer
Captain
It certainly does look Mirage-ish.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
is that a fixed nose weel??
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
No...it is retractil.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
doesn't look it............
Yeah it looks like it was fixed. If that is the case it is probably since it was only flown for test perposes as a glider but if a jet engine had been installed it would have been made retractable.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
i damn well hope so...........
CharlesBronson
Senior Master Sergeant
Anothers local Hortens.
This is the Horten Ho-XV glider, locally designed as FMA I.A.E 34. This photo was taken at just 16 km from I am now.
This is the Horten Ho-XV glider, locally designed as FMA I.A.E 34. This photo was taken at just 16 km from I am now.
From what I read Kurt Tank and many other German designers moved to Argentina and helped design aircraft there.
KraziKanuK
Banned
- 792
- Jan 26, 2005
Anyone hear of the Helouan HA-300?
This a/c from the 60s was designed by a team that was by Willey M in Spain. It was then transfered to Egypt.
Looks like a downsized MiG-21.
estimated (data from an old book)
span - 20'
length - 38'
height - 10'
This a/c from the 60s was designed by a team that was by Willey M in Spain. It was then transfered to Egypt.
Looks like a downsized MiG-21.
estimated (data from an old book)
span - 20'
length - 38'
height - 10'
I could not find anything on it.
KraziKanuK
Banned
- 792
- Jan 26, 2005
A google search turn up several links to the HA-300.
a pic, http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRfothis/HA-300.JPG
a pic, http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRfothis/HA-300.JPG
Thanks will check it out. And here is what I have found now:
Helwan HA-300
Development
The Helwan HA-300 was orginally designed in Spain by Professor Willy Messerschmitt, who headed a German-Spanish design team, to meet a Ejercito del Aire (EdA) (Spanish Air Force) requirement. The development was initiated by the Spanish Hispano-Aviacion concern who produced a full-scale glider model, designated HA-23P, before the programme was transferred to Egypt in 1960. The United Arab Republic (UAR), consisting of Egypt, Syria and Yemen, assumed the sponsorship of the programme and it was controlled by the Egyptian General Aero Organisation (EGAO). Test facilities and workshops for the development of the fighter and the powerplant were built at Helwan.
The HA-300 was orginally conceived as a tailless delta, powered by one Bristol Siddeley Orpheus B.Or.12 turbojet, rated at 3,057 kg dry and 3,706 kg with reheat. The maximum speed should be Mach 1.5. Before the programme was transferred to Egypt, a swept tailplane was introduced at the base of the rear fuselage, so a similar configuration to the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 'Fishbed' was adopted, and considerable developemnt of the basic design was then undertaken by German, Spanish and Egyptian engineers, who adapted the design for the E-300 turbojet and for speeds in the order of Mach two.
Structure
The HA-300 was a very small aircraft, roughly comparable with the Fiat G.91 and the Northrop F-5A/B Freedom Fighter, and had a mid-mounted delta wing with a thickness/chord ratio of about four per cent and a leading edge sweep of 57.5 degrees. In view of the moderately large approach incidences associated with highly loaded deltas such as the HA-300, the pilot of the HA-300 would appear to suffer an exceptionally poor view for landing, and it is therefore possible that in the production variant some form of mechanical nose dropping would have been used.
Powerplant
The Bristol Siddeley Orpheus turbojet was initially planned to power the HA-300, but it was not powerfull enough for the HA-300 to reach supersonic speeds. The E-300 turbojet was developed by a team headed by Dr. Ferdinand Brandner, who came from Austria to Egypt to assist in the development of the E-300 turbojet.
During a visit to Egypt in early 1963, the Vice President of India, Dr. Zakir Hussain, was asked by the Egytian Air Force Chief, M. Sidky Mahmout, for help with the HA-300 programme. In fact, Egypt wanted only help for the development of the E-300 engine and an Indian test pilot.
A test rig for the E-300 turbojet was build at Military Aircraft Factory Number 36 at Helwan, where Indian engineers assisted in the development of the E-300 turbojet, which ran for the first time in July 1963. The HA-300 had lateral intakes, possible derived from the intakes of the Lockheed F-104G Starfighter, for the E-300 turbojet.
To test the E-300 turbojet, an example was fitted to the left inboard position of an Egyptian Air Force (EAF) Antonov An-12 'Cub', where it replaced the Ivchyenko Al-20K turboprop. This An-12 was damaged on 5 June 1967 by IDF/AF Sud-Ouest SO.4050A Vantours at Helwan.
India supported the development programme for the E-300 turbojet, because India planned to use the E-300 on the Hindustan Aircraft Limited (HAL) HF-24 Marut. A modified HF-24 Mk IBX was loaned, and later given, to Egypt for engine trails with the E-300 turbojet. Thirty engineers from HAL were send to Egypt to maintain the aircraft.
Armament
The planned armament for the intercept mission consisted of two to four infra-red (IR) homing air-to-air missiles, such as the Russian AA-2 'Atoll', and two 30 mm Hispano cannon or four 23 mm Nudelmann-Suranov NS-23 cannon would have been used for the ground attack role, although the high loaded delta configuration offered serious shortcommings in the latter role.
Flight Trails
The Egytian Air Force Chief, M. Sidky Mahmout, was invited by HAL in early 1963 and he asked Group Captian Kapil Bhargava of the Indian Air Force (IAF) to became the testpilot for the HA-300. He came to Egypt in June 1963 and flew more than 100 flight hours with aircraft powered by the E-300 turbojet.
Two Egyptian pilots were send to India in 1964 where they attended the Indian Air Force test pilot school to prepare for the flight development of the HA-300. Major Zohair Shalaby was a pilot of exceptional ability and Major Sahby al-Tawail was both a pilot and an engineer. Both of these officers completed the course succesfully.
The first prototype made its first flight on 7 March 1964, piloted by Group Captian Kapil Bhargava. The first HA-300 was powered for the initial trails by a 2,200 kg Bristol Siddeley Orpheus 703-S-10 turbojet. In the initial form, the aircraft was intended for relative slow speed trails, having subsonic engine air intakes and a non-powered rudder.
The second prototype, which joined the test programma on 22 July 1965, had the same powerplant as the first prototype, but had supersonic intakes and a power control for the rudder. With the Orpheus 703-S-10 turbojet, the HA-300 attained Mach 1.13.
The third prototype, which was the first with the E-300 turbojet, began taxi trails in November 1969, but the programme was cancelled without flight testing being undertaken with the third prototype.
Cancellation
The HA-300 programma was cancelled in 1969, due to the limited exceptions of the E-300 turbojet and thus the lack of a suitable powerplant and the Six Day War of June 1967. After the HA-300 was cancelled additional Soviet aircraft were ordered.
At the start of the HA-300 programme, it was planned to built additional prototypes and pre-production aircraft to join the flight programme during the course of 1965, and that the delivery of production aircraft would have been started before the end of 1966 or early 1967. Later, this date was set at 1968. The production of the HA-300 would have taken place at Military Aircraft Factory Number 36 at Helwan.
Specification of the Helwan HA-300
Type:
Single-seat point-defence interceptor with a limited ground-attack capability.
Powerplant:
One Helwan E-300 turbojet rated at 3,402 kg dry and 4,990 kg with reheat.
Performance:
Maximum speed: 2,124 km/h at 12,192 m and 1,802 km/h with two air-to-air missiles. Initial rate of climb: 12,192 m/min. Combat radius: 643 km in clean condition. Service ceiling: 12,000 m.
Dimensions:
Wingspan: 5.84 m. Length: 12.40 m. Height: 3.15 m. Wing area: 16.70 m2.
Weights:
Loaded weight: 5,443 kg in clean condition.
Armament:
Two 30 mm Hispano or four 23 mm Nudelmann-Suranov NS-23 cannon and two to four infra-red (IR) homing air-to-air missiles.
Helwan HA-300
Development
The Helwan HA-300 was orginally designed in Spain by Professor Willy Messerschmitt, who headed a German-Spanish design team, to meet a Ejercito del Aire (EdA) (Spanish Air Force) requirement. The development was initiated by the Spanish Hispano-Aviacion concern who produced a full-scale glider model, designated HA-23P, before the programme was transferred to Egypt in 1960. The United Arab Republic (UAR), consisting of Egypt, Syria and Yemen, assumed the sponsorship of the programme and it was controlled by the Egyptian General Aero Organisation (EGAO). Test facilities and workshops for the development of the fighter and the powerplant were built at Helwan.
The HA-300 was orginally conceived as a tailless delta, powered by one Bristol Siddeley Orpheus B.Or.12 turbojet, rated at 3,057 kg dry and 3,706 kg with reheat. The maximum speed should be Mach 1.5. Before the programme was transferred to Egypt, a swept tailplane was introduced at the base of the rear fuselage, so a similar configuration to the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 'Fishbed' was adopted, and considerable developemnt of the basic design was then undertaken by German, Spanish and Egyptian engineers, who adapted the design for the E-300 turbojet and for speeds in the order of Mach two.
Structure
The HA-300 was a very small aircraft, roughly comparable with the Fiat G.91 and the Northrop F-5A/B Freedom Fighter, and had a mid-mounted delta wing with a thickness/chord ratio of about four per cent and a leading edge sweep of 57.5 degrees. In view of the moderately large approach incidences associated with highly loaded deltas such as the HA-300, the pilot of the HA-300 would appear to suffer an exceptionally poor view for landing, and it is therefore possible that in the production variant some form of mechanical nose dropping would have been used.
Powerplant
The Bristol Siddeley Orpheus turbojet was initially planned to power the HA-300, but it was not powerfull enough for the HA-300 to reach supersonic speeds. The E-300 turbojet was developed by a team headed by Dr. Ferdinand Brandner, who came from Austria to Egypt to assist in the development of the E-300 turbojet.
During a visit to Egypt in early 1963, the Vice President of India, Dr. Zakir Hussain, was asked by the Egytian Air Force Chief, M. Sidky Mahmout, for help with the HA-300 programme. In fact, Egypt wanted only help for the development of the E-300 engine and an Indian test pilot.
A test rig for the E-300 turbojet was build at Military Aircraft Factory Number 36 at Helwan, where Indian engineers assisted in the development of the E-300 turbojet, which ran for the first time in July 1963. The HA-300 had lateral intakes, possible derived from the intakes of the Lockheed F-104G Starfighter, for the E-300 turbojet.
To test the E-300 turbojet, an example was fitted to the left inboard position of an Egyptian Air Force (EAF) Antonov An-12 'Cub', where it replaced the Ivchyenko Al-20K turboprop. This An-12 was damaged on 5 June 1967 by IDF/AF Sud-Ouest SO.4050A Vantours at Helwan.
India supported the development programme for the E-300 turbojet, because India planned to use the E-300 on the Hindustan Aircraft Limited (HAL) HF-24 Marut. A modified HF-24 Mk IBX was loaned, and later given, to Egypt for engine trails with the E-300 turbojet. Thirty engineers from HAL were send to Egypt to maintain the aircraft.
Armament
The planned armament for the intercept mission consisted of two to four infra-red (IR) homing air-to-air missiles, such as the Russian AA-2 'Atoll', and two 30 mm Hispano cannon or four 23 mm Nudelmann-Suranov NS-23 cannon would have been used for the ground attack role, although the high loaded delta configuration offered serious shortcommings in the latter role.
Flight Trails
The Egytian Air Force Chief, M. Sidky Mahmout, was invited by HAL in early 1963 and he asked Group Captian Kapil Bhargava of the Indian Air Force (IAF) to became the testpilot for the HA-300. He came to Egypt in June 1963 and flew more than 100 flight hours with aircraft powered by the E-300 turbojet.
Two Egyptian pilots were send to India in 1964 where they attended the Indian Air Force test pilot school to prepare for the flight development of the HA-300. Major Zohair Shalaby was a pilot of exceptional ability and Major Sahby al-Tawail was both a pilot and an engineer. Both of these officers completed the course succesfully.
The first prototype made its first flight on 7 March 1964, piloted by Group Captian Kapil Bhargava. The first HA-300 was powered for the initial trails by a 2,200 kg Bristol Siddeley Orpheus 703-S-10 turbojet. In the initial form, the aircraft was intended for relative slow speed trails, having subsonic engine air intakes and a non-powered rudder.
The second prototype, which joined the test programma on 22 July 1965, had the same powerplant as the first prototype, but had supersonic intakes and a power control for the rudder. With the Orpheus 703-S-10 turbojet, the HA-300 attained Mach 1.13.
The third prototype, which was the first with the E-300 turbojet, began taxi trails in November 1969, but the programme was cancelled without flight testing being undertaken with the third prototype.
Cancellation
The HA-300 programma was cancelled in 1969, due to the limited exceptions of the E-300 turbojet and thus the lack of a suitable powerplant and the Six Day War of June 1967. After the HA-300 was cancelled additional Soviet aircraft were ordered.
At the start of the HA-300 programme, it was planned to built additional prototypes and pre-production aircraft to join the flight programme during the course of 1965, and that the delivery of production aircraft would have been started before the end of 1966 or early 1967. Later, this date was set at 1968. The production of the HA-300 would have taken place at Military Aircraft Factory Number 36 at Helwan.
Specification of the Helwan HA-300
Type:
Single-seat point-defence interceptor with a limited ground-attack capability.
Powerplant:
One Helwan E-300 turbojet rated at 3,402 kg dry and 4,990 kg with reheat.
Performance:
Maximum speed: 2,124 km/h at 12,192 m and 1,802 km/h with two air-to-air missiles. Initial rate of climb: 12,192 m/min. Combat radius: 643 km in clean condition. Service ceiling: 12,000 m.
Dimensions:
Wingspan: 5.84 m. Length: 12.40 m. Height: 3.15 m. Wing area: 16.70 m2.
Weights:
Loaded weight: 5,443 kg in clean condition.
Armament:
Two 30 mm Hispano or four 23 mm Nudelmann-Suranov NS-23 cannon and two to four infra-red (IR) homing air-to-air missiles.
Attachments
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
cheddar cheese
Major General
I was gonna say its some kind of Focke-Achgelis but knowing you its probably British...
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