Aircraft With Contrarotating Props

Waynos · Jun 21, 2009

Carson, on the thread where you requested a picture of the Yak Tzaw1 posted a link to an interesting document, if you read it you will have seen this on there as well, it is a mock up of the Yak 44 and this is a slightly better quality version of the same picture in the link.

carson1934 · Jun 21, 2009

Waynos said:
Carson, on the thread where you requested a picture of the Yak Tzaw1 posted a link to an interesting document, if you read it you will have seen this on there as well, it is a mock up of the Yak 44 and this is a slightly better quality version of the same picture in the link.

I don't know how to thank you enough Waynos, this is a new world that is opening up to me.
The picture of the YAK42/LL by Tzaw1 is much better than any I found on the web so far and the mock-up of the Yak/44 is astounding after you retouched it.It will take about one year to translate approximately the russian article but I'm not in a hurry.
Cheers
carson1934

carson1934 · Jun 22, 2009

Waynos said:
Carson, on the thread where you requested a picture of the Yak Tzaw1 posted a link to an interesting document, if you read it you will have seen this on there as well, it is a mock up of the Yak 44 and this is a slightly better quality version of the same picture in the link.

Hi Waynos,
if you connect to the following link you will see the most beautiful pics of a Boeing 727 with UDF (unducted fan) as tested in the USA in 1986:
Boeing 727 Datacenter
Unfortunately being a brazilian site it's only in portuguese but if you require a short translation of some points I can help you out there.
carson1934

Waynos · Jun 22, 2009

Cheers Carson. I also very much like the look of the twinjet version, though its 787 designation looks a bit comical in retrospect. If I'm not mistaken it was getting a new wing too if the picture was anything to go by.

carson1934 · Jun 23, 2009

Waynos said:
Cheers Carson. I also very much like the look of the twinjet version, though its 787 designation looks a bit comical in retrospect. If I'm not mistaken it was getting a new wing too if the picture was anything to go by.

Yes, Waynos, I absolutely agree with you, due respect given to the designers of the DK design.
Cheers
carson1934

AMCKen · Jun 23, 2009

Are you differentiating between aircraft with contraprops driven by one engine and those with CP driven by 2 engines?
Nitpicker might say aircraft like the Macchi MC72 are actually twin-engine aircraft with counter-rotating propellors. : )

carson1934 · Jun 24, 2009

AMCKen said:
Are you differentiating between aircraft with contraprops driven by one engine and those with CP driven by 2 engines?
Nitpicker might say aircraft like the Macchi MC72 are actually twin-engine aircraft with counter-rotating propellors. : )

Hi AMCKen,
not really I am not differentiating between the two so long as they have contrarotating props, they actually flew or they advanced to at least mock-up stage (no projects, fancy projects, nightmarish projects or paper planes).
Then if anybody intends to nitpick (nice word I didn't know till you used it and I had to look on the Merriam-Webster)...well, let him nitpick.
By the way the manuscript of the listing is practically ready and I'm fine tuning it and checking a few data.
As you know my intention is not to lecture anybody or discuss a graduation thesis (too old for that) over the suject of aircrafts with CR props but merely provide a satisfactory database (as complete as possible) of the above.
If nothing happens I should be able to post it through by middle next week.
Thanks again for your continued interest and precious assistance in this task which proved to be rather difficult.
carson1934

gumbyk · Jun 24, 2009

Carson, I couldn't see any mention of the Fisher XP-75 on this post.

carson1934 · Jun 25, 2009

gumbyk said:
Carson, I couldn't see any mention of the Fisher XP-75 on this post.

Hi Gumbyk,
welcome to the contrarotating club and thanks for the wonderful pic of XP/75.
In my first list it's designated as General Motors XP/75 Eagle, that's why you couldn't find it.
In my forthcoming new list it is going to be more correctly designated Fisher/General motors...
carson1934

PS Auckland has become a very nice city I have pleasant memories of it while staying at a decent motel facing the rose gardens near Parnell!

Waynos · Jun 25, 2009

Carson, I posted in your push pull thread, you don't appear to have noticed.

AMCKen · Jun 26, 2009

Counter-rotating and contra-rotating are supposedly not quite the same thing.
Counter-rotating props are like on the Lockheed Lightning and deHavilland Hornet - driven by 2 engines and turning in opposite directions. Contra are 'generally' driven by one engine. Confused yet? : )

Waynos · Jun 26, 2009

Aren't the first one you describe known as 'handed propellers? ie left and right. or is that just in the UK.

Other than that I would say that contra rotating propellers have to occupy the same thrust line and be coupled.

The Fairey Gannet was twin engined and could be flown with one engine and one propellor stopped, but they were still contra rotating.

carson1934 · Jun 26, 2009

Hi gentlemen,
I don't want to get involved into a technical or semantic discussion between counter-rotating or contrarotating albeit I clearly see your points.
I'm simply listing all those aircrafts dirven by two props located on the same screw-shaft one rotating in one side and the other in the opposite side
Whether they are driven by two engines or by one engine only or whether by one shaft through a gearbox or by two separate shafts, that's matter for experts...
carson1934

P.S. Please forgive my English I'm not export on technical terms but I hope you understand what I mean!

carson1934 · Jun 26, 2009

Enclosed you will find page n.1 of above subject. Pages 2 and 3 follow
carson1934

carson1934 · Jun 26, 2009

tHIS IS PAGE N.2. lAST PAGE FOLLOWS
CARSON1934

carson1934 · Jun 26, 2009

This is the last page (n.3) of subject thread.
I must say that I worked quite a lot over them and the help of many friends in the forum was invaluable indeed by adding comments, pictures, texts, etc.
My object (which I hope was fulfilled) was to compile a listing as complete as possible of the a.m. aircrafts. As I already explained in one of my posts only planes that actually flew (or in mock-up stage) were included. I didn't care about projects, paper planes and the like.
Concerning initials or denomination of aircrafts I found out with dismay that a few of them have double or even triple denominations therefore don't be surprised if you'll find 2 or 3 different initials against the same aircraft.
I have also included a few models driven by turbofan or unducted fan engines as strictly speaking they are also driven by contra-rotating special props (this section should be getting wider if price of kerosene will rise)
I'm very open to criticism, adjustments, addenda, nitpicking etc. etc. : to this effect I have saved in my PC all three pages to effect whatever amendment I may deem necessary or opportune.
My apologies for issuing three separate posts but I experienced some trouble this evening with my PC, I sincerely hope this won't cause any problem.
Again thanks very much to all and sundry and now back to work!
My next list is going to be "push and pull" (a much shorter one I'm afraid) and I'm also thinking of starting a fresh one dealing with coaxial choppers (also contra-rotating).
Cheers to everybody and let's all help in making this forum more and more interesting, amusing and informative.
carson1934

AMCKen · Jun 27, 2009

Supermarine Seafang was an naval variant of the Spiteful. Spiteful XV was also contra-prop.

AMCKen · Jun 27, 2009

Also, P-51s modified for racing should include the pioneer Red Baron RB-51.

Site Planes of Fame Museum :: View topic - Red Baron RB-51 Unlimited Racer Revisited has some history and nifty photos.

I was at Reno when it crashed after racing with the same engine it had used setting the 499mph record.

Miss Ashley II was the unfortunate Gary Levitz machine.

Seems to me the brothers Bill Don Whittington built one also. Lets see ... Ahh - here we go :

warbirdregistry.org - North American P-51 Mustang

carson1934 · Jun 28, 2009

AMCKen said:
Also, P-51s modified for racing should include the pioneer Red Baron RB-51.

Site Planes of Fame Museum :: View topic - Red Baron RB-51 Unlimited Racer Revisited has some history and nifty photos.

I was at Reno when it crashed after racing with the same engine it had used setting the 499mph record.

Miss Ashley II was the unfortunate Gary Levitz machine.

Seems to me the brothers Bill Don Whittington built one also. Lets see ... Ahh - here we go :

warbirdregistry.org - North American P-51 Mustang

Hi AMCKen,
I will peruse the links you are giving me.
I'm just thinking to make a short separate list of such racers which are hybrid machines though sporting contra-props....If I have time.... because now I'm working on "push/pull aircrafts"
besides I'm also planning to work on coaxial choppers (which also have contra-rotating rotors)
As you can see I'm putting too many irons in the fire.....
All the best
carson1934

carson1934 · Jun 28, 2009

AMCKen said:
Supermarine Seafang was an naval variant of the Spiteful. Spiteful XV was also contra-prop.

Could you give me some more information about the Spiteful XV with contras? Maybe also a pic?
Cheers
carson1934

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