SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Having tea by a window?
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Having tea by a window?And this one reduced to riding a motorcycle.
"Chauffeur! Where's my chauffeur?!"
You can't negotiate with a sharkOne small problem: Kremlin doesn't stop.
In March 2014, Ukraine could not regain Crimea.
In September 2014 after the defeat in Ilovaisk, Ukraine could not regain the occupied territory in the east.
Ukraine tried to go on and to reach its goals of joining this and that... Ukraine was advised to look at historical examples (yes, Germany was mentioned many times).
Zelensky while being a naive and ignorant candidate in the president race of 2019, said about the war in the East: "We just need to stop shooting".
He fired people with the hawkish reputation, he created commissions and bodies for the negotiations and for cultural and humanitarian cooperation with occupied territories. He withdrawn troops in some places on the frontline. He wanted to meet Putin and resolve "misunderstandings"...
And yet that is just what some are pushing for all because they are misguided (if I am generous), bored with the war or just wanting their "Peace in our time" moment. Have a look at my above post with the maps to see that this is far more than national pride too.I think some of members here underestimate national pride and justice. How would you guys feel if Mexico would annex Texas and Arizona? Would you think, oh well, it's only about 18% of the country and Mexico devastated it anyway, so they can have it?
Apart from that, do we want a dictator like Putin gain anything from being aggressive?
But if you look at my post with the maps, it isn't that simple. The occupied territories are some of Ukraine's richest and most productive.Currently, Russia holds what, only about 18% of Ukraine territory?
Not much of one I'm afraidIf there are concessions, I'm sure the occupied Kursk region will be a solid bargaining chip.
YepThe fly in the ointment, though, is the issue of war crimes and abducted Ukrainian children and citizens.
Great post. Anybody thinking that we will stop Putin by making concessions is wrong. He is like Hitler. He will only see that his aggressiveness pays off and will become a bigger threat.One small problem: Kremlin doesn't stop.
In March 2014, Ukraine could not regain Crimea.
In September 2014 after the defeat in Ilovaisk, Ukraine could not regain the occupied territory in the east.
Ukraine tried to go on and to reach its goals of joining this and that... Ukraine was advised to look at historical examples (yes, Germany was mentioned many times).
Zelensky while being a naive and ignorant candidate in the president race of 2019, said about the war in the East: "We just need to stop shooting".
He fired people with the hawkish reputation, he created commissions and bodies for the negotiations and for cultural and humanitarian cooperation with occupied territories. He withdrawn troops in some places on the frontline. He wanted to meet Putin and resolve "misunderstandings"...
About the same as the Mexicans must have felt when the USA annexed California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and parts of Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas and Oklahoma. They had to accept it and find a way to carry on. Ukraine will have to do the same.I think some of members here underestimate national pride and justice. How would you guys feel if Mexico would annex Texas and Arizona?
I DO NOT WANT THIS AWESOME THREAD TO BE LOCKED BECAUSE OF A FEW. EVERYONE CALM THE FUCK DOWN!!!!!!!!!
The guy shouting seems the only one who's not pretty chill here. Everyone seems to be walking the line and only mentioning anything tangentially political as it may apply to Ukraine. If Putin or Xi Jinping were deposed tomorrow in a coup, that would be both political and relevant to the Ukraine discussion. My vote is send him a Moderator Application Form and we all carry on as is, respecting each other and contributing to the discussion. Honestly, I don't see anything above that closely violates the rules of conduct. We're a good, polite bunch here, ahem....Well said.
I suggest everyone take a step back and chill out.
Okay... but what choice does Ukraine have? They can't fight Russia forever, and NATO, Australia and other supporters will eventually slow their lethal and financial aid.Fuck off!!!
The guy shouting seems the only one who's not pretty chill here. Everyone seems to be walking the line and only mentioning anything tangentially political as it may apply to Ukraine. If Putin or Xi Jinping were deposed tomorrow in a coup, that would be both political and relevant to the Ukraine discussion. My vote is send him a Moderator Application Form and we all carry on as is, respecting each other and contributing to the discussion. Honestly, I don't see anything above that closely violates the rules of conduct. We're a good, polite bunch here, ahem....
Okay... but what choice does Ukraine have? They can't fight Russia forever, and NATO, Australia and other supporters will eventually slow their lethal and financial aid.