Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 40,141
- Mar 26, 2007
Yes.
"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again."
- Thread starter XBe02Drvr
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #11,862
Admiral Beez said:
unilaterally start a war and shoot at Russian warships as they pass by?
Look at a large scale map of the Bosporous. Ships in transit are like ducks in a shooting gallery. Even running it submerged is a losing proposition.
unilaterally start a war and shoot at Russian warships as they pass by?
Look at a large scale map of the Bosporous. Ships in transit are like ducks in a shooting gallery. Even running it submerged is a losing proposition.
buffnut453
Captain
Given the missile attacks on the city of Zaporizhzhia this morning, it seems pretty clear that the Russian military and political leadership have still not learned a single lesson from this war.
Attacking civilians does nothing but strengthen resolve. That lesson was learned during the Blitz in 1940, during the Allied bombing offensive against Germany 1943-45, and again in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.
It's even more stupid given that Russia is running out of some stocks of munitions and yet they continue to waste missiles on targets that won't improve Russia's situation on the battlefield. It's CRAZY!
Attacking civilians does nothing but strengthen resolve. That lesson was learned during the Blitz in 1940, during the Allied bombing offensive against Germany 1943-45, and again in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.
It's even more stupid given that Russia is running out of some stocks of munitions and yet they continue to waste missiles on targets that won't improve Russia's situation on the battlefield. It's CRAZY!
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ThomasP
Senior Master Sergeant
Turkey owns (as in territorial waters and the land on both sides of the Bosporus) and so has total control on what goes on in the area. The only reason their is maritime traffic through the Bosporus is because Turkey allows it. At least in terms of international law.
The Bosporus Strait is only 2300 ft wide at its narrowest point, with no where to hide on the Black Sea until you get to the eastern end (the same area where the Russian navy is hiding now). Like Finland in the north, Turkey has had only one foreign (potentially existential threat) enemy to worry about for the last 70 odd years and that is Russia. Even without NATO Turkey could stomp the Russian Black Sea Fleet. With NATO potentially on their side . . . The Strait is too far from Russia for any kind of serious air superiority contest on the part of Russia.
Unless Russia was willing to nuke Turkey there would be no real war, just the slaughter of any Russian naval ships that tried to force the strait. And maybe the destruction of the Black Sea Fleet as a whole if it became required. Turkey would lose some surface vessels (naval and merchant) and subs and aircraft, and have to eliminate the Russian submarines and the subsequent naval mine problem, but Russia would never again be able to pass through the strait unless Turkey said it was OK.
Turkey currently has both surface and air launched variants of the Harpoon in their inventory. Along with a host of other guided weapons that could be used against any Russian naval threat. For most of the Strait, artillery in direct fire mode would be enough to disable or destroy any surface ship.
"List of equipment of the Turkish Land Forces - Wikipedia"
"List of active Turkish Air Force aircraft - Wikipedia"
"List of active ships of the Turkish Naval Forces - Wikipedia"
The Bosporus Strait is only 2300 ft wide at its narrowest point, with no where to hide on the Black Sea until you get to the eastern end (the same area where the Russian navy is hiding now). Like Finland in the north, Turkey has had only one foreign (potentially existential threat) enemy to worry about for the last 70 odd years and that is Russia. Even without NATO Turkey could stomp the Russian Black Sea Fleet. With NATO potentially on their side . . . The Strait is too far from Russia for any kind of serious air superiority contest on the part of Russia.
Unless Russia was willing to nuke Turkey there would be no real war, just the slaughter of any Russian naval ships that tried to force the strait. And maybe the destruction of the Black Sea Fleet as a whole if it became required. Turkey would lose some surface vessels (naval and merchant) and subs and aircraft, and have to eliminate the Russian submarines and the subsequent naval mine problem, but Russia would never again be able to pass through the strait unless Turkey said it was OK.
Turkey currently has both surface and air launched variants of the Harpoon in their inventory. Along with a host of other guided weapons that could be used against any Russian naval threat. For most of the Strait, artillery in direct fire mode would be enough to disable or destroy any surface ship.
"List of equipment of the Turkish Land Forces - Wikipedia"
"List of active Turkish Air Force aircraft - Wikipedia"
"List of active ships of the Turkish Naval Forces - Wikipedia"
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,312
- Jul 5, 2015
Changing of topic, Russian native microprocessor industry seems to be collapsing as fast as their military.
This are the companies expected to produce Russian servers and supercomputers and native Russian processors intended to replace Intel and AMD offerings (that of course are banned since invassion started).
www.tomshardware.com
This are the companies expected to produce Russian servers and supercomputers and native Russian processors intended to replace Intel and AMD offerings (that of course are banned since invassion started).
Former Co-Owner of Russia's Baikal Microelectronics Goes Bankrupt
Russia's T-Platforms Goes Bankrupt.
www.tomshardware.com
Admiral Beez
Captain
When will Ukraine move to sever the land bridge to Crimea? In addition to the Kerch bridge to Russia, there are three road connections between Crimea and mainland Europe, all controlled by Russia.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
... not to mention that Russia claims this territory is its own ... meaning Russians are bombarding Russia.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
I'd imagine they need to secure Kherson and Melitopol as a precondition, in order to guard the flanks of such a drive.
ThomasP
Senior Master Sergeant
There is no strategic or tactical reason to destroy the Kerch Bridge at this time (I think).
Once the Russian forces are looking for a way out of Crimea it might be useful to destroy it, but it might be better to leave it intact since having the Russians leave is the point. Also with the bridge intact the Russian-leaning civilian population has a way out if they choose to use it.
Just a thought.
Once the Russian forces are looking for a way out of Crimea it might be useful to destroy it, but it might be better to leave it intact since having the Russians leave is the point. Also with the bridge intact the Russian-leaning civilian population has a way out if they choose to use it.
Just a thought.
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Thumpalumpacus
Major
Agreed, it's better to allow them a route of retreat. While one would rather capture those soldiers, you're right that giving Russian civilians an exit route is smart, to redress the demographics of the island without resorting to forced resettlement.
buffnut453
Captain
Interesting update that provides the amount of retaken territory in Kherson this month (from the BBC):
The Ukrainian Armed Forces say they've retaken more than 400 sq km (154 sq miles) in the southern Kherson region since the start of the month.
"We have quite convincing successes, we do not name the directions," a spokeswoman said in a media briefing.
The land has been "freed from the occupiers [...] and we are moving forward," she added.
The BBC cannot independently verify the claims.
Kherson is one of four Ukrainian regions that Russia recently annexed in an illegal move.
But Kyiv's counter-offensive has been acknowledged by pro-Russian figures, with a Kremlin-installed official in Kherson, Kirill Stremousov, telling residents earlier this week: "There is no reason to panic."
I do wonder if Stremousov is trying to convince himself not to panic?
The Ukrainian Armed Forces say they've retaken more than 400 sq km (154 sq miles) in the southern Kherson region since the start of the month.
"We have quite convincing successes, we do not name the directions," a spokeswoman said in a media briefing.
The land has been "freed from the occupiers [...] and we are moving forward," she added.
The BBC cannot independently verify the claims.
Kherson is one of four Ukrainian regions that Russia recently annexed in an illegal move.
But Kyiv's counter-offensive has been acknowledged by pro-Russian figures, with a Kremlin-installed official in Kherson, Kirill Stremousov, telling residents earlier this week: "There is no reason to panic."
I do wonder if Stremousov is trying to convince himself not to panic?
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Cringe worthy.
Crimea_River
Marshal
Ah, yes, but the 4% of voters who opposed joining Russia live in those buildings being targeted. [sarcasm button off]
RogerdeLluria
Staff Sergeant
- 1,312
- Jul 5, 2015
Usually this kind of actions do more harm than good. They may (or may not) curb inflation, but shortages and black market are a given.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Belarus dictator Lukashenko BANS price increases to curb inflation
The authoritarian ally to Vladimir Putin, who is known for his unusual policies, is desperately trying to slow consumer prices which have skyrocketed 18 per cent.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
They look about enthusiastic as people being sent to their deaths.
buffnut453
Captain
Well...the missiles hit the city of Zaporizhzhia which is solidly under Ukrainian control, so they weren't bombarding "Russians." This all comes back to Peskov's inability to define the boundaries of these "Russian" regions. Part of Zaporizhzhia (the region) is controlled by Russia today but most of it is under Ukrainian control, including the capital of the same name.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Oh, I know. My point wasn't that they were bombarding "Russians", but that they were bombarding "Russia".
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Russia "annexed" the four Oblasts:
Donestk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.
So *technically* speaking (from Russia's point of view), they are shelling their own territory and killing their own civilians.
Donestk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.
So *technically* speaking (from Russia's point of view), they are shelling their own territory and killing their own civilians.
- Thread starter
- #11,879
Russians seem enamored of the "blunt instrument" approach to everything. Something in their culture, yet they're so self conscious and defensive about being considered nekulturny by the rest of the world, they seem to have a perpetual inferiority complex.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
Maslow's Hammer is a bitch.
