"All of Vlad's forces and all of Vlad's men, are out to put Humpty together again." (2 Viewers)

[Thumpalumpacus]

The Pentagon on Tuesday rejected Poland's proposal to transfer MiG-29 fighter jets to a U.S. air base in Germany amid the intensifying Russian war in Ukraine.

Pentagon press secretary John Kirby released a statement Tuesday evening calling the proposal untenable.

Poland proposed a plan Tuesday to transfer the jets to the Ramstein Air Base to then go to Ukraine to help their fight against Russia.

"The prospect of fighter jets 'at the disposal of the Government of the United States of America' departing from a U.S./NATO base in Germany to fly into airspace that is contested with Russia over Ukraine raises serious concerns for the entire NATO alliance," Kirby said.

"It is simply not clear to us that there is a substantive rationale for it. We will continue to consult with Poland and our other NATO allies about this issue and the difficult logistical challenges it presents, but we do not believe Poland's proposal is a tenable one," he added.

Poland's plan came after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky pleaded with the U.S. to transfer the MiG-29 jets to the country on Saturday.

In Poland's statement Tuesday, it called on other NATO allies with those types of jets, which Ukrainian soldiers are trained to use, to transfer them to Ukraine.

Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland said the offer by Poland was not "preconsulted" with the U.S.

Pentagon: Polish proposal to send MiG fighters to US air base not ‘tenable’

The Pentagon on Tuesday rejected Poland’s proposal to transfer MiG-29 fighter jets to a U.S. air base in Germany amid the intensifying Russian war in Ukraine.Pentagon press secretary John Kirby rel…

thehill.com

This is infuriating.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Pentagon: Polish proposal to send MiG fighters to US air base not ‘tenable’

The Pentagon on Tuesday rejected Poland’s proposal to transfer MiG-29 fighter jets to a U.S. air base in Germany amid the intensifying Russian war in Ukraine.Pentagon press secretary John Kirby rel…

thehill.com

This is infuriating.

The Poles were too precious too far here. If you want to help Ukraine then do it, the UAF pilots could have traveled overland to Poland where the freshly re-painted MiG-29s would be ready for them to fly to Ukraine. No media press releases or fanfare, just take off and fly to Ukraine. Just the same as with the thousands of MANPADS, MANPATS and small arms crossing the Polish border every hour. Instead Poland wanted to US to be seen to be involved as some sort of shell game stunt, and then made a big public show of it, without apparently first checking with the US.

This is all on Poland. And they know they're next on Putin's list after Ukraine and Moldova. Now's not the time for Warsaw to be silly. Even today it's not too late, repaint those MiG-29s and leave them fuelled, armed and unattended with the "keys" in the ignition. If someone steals them, well that's life.

Why not also "donate" your ground-attack optimized Sukhoi Su-17s? The US will make sure you're not left defenceless.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

The Poles were too precious too far here. If you want to help Ukraine then do it, the UAF pilots could have traveled overland to Poland where the freshly re-painted MiG-29s would be ready for them to fly to Ukraine. No media press releases or fanfare, just take off and fly to Ukraine. Just the same as with the thousands of MANPADS, MANPATS and small arms crossing the Polish border every hour. Instead Poland wanted to US to be seen to be involved as some sort of shell game stunt, and then made a big public show of it, without apparently first checking with the US. This is all on Poland.

It appears that way, but at the same time the Pentagon's rationale seems arch. I know that sending arms to one side of a war is legally casus belli to the other, but Poland is just as much a member of NATO as Germany.

I don't know the technical issues (fuel fittings compatible? that sort of thing) but barring those I hope President Biden orders the Pentagon to reconsider. Setting foreign policy is not in the Pentagon's purview, after all.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Pentagon: Polish proposal to send MiG fighters to US air base not ‘tenable’

The Pentagon on Tuesday rejected Poland’s proposal to transfer MiG-29 fighter jets to a U.S. air base in Germany amid the intensifying Russian war in Ukraine.Pentagon press secretary John Kirby rel…

thehill.com

This is infuriating.

Just put the damn planes in a parking lot unescured. If Ukrainian tourists just happen to acquire them as souvenirs of their time visiting beautiful Poland then so be it.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Just put the damn planes in a parking lot unescured. If Ukrainian tourists just happen to acquire them as souvenirs of their time visiting beautiful Poland then so be it.

You've got to admit, those pesky Ukrainians have a habit of stealing everything that isn't nailed down ...

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

... and this just came up in my feed:

Poland said on Wednesday that it wants to work with NATO countries to send fighter jets to Ukraine one day after the U.S. rejected Poland's proposal.

"Such a serious decision as supplying planes must be unanimous and unequivocally made by the whole North Atlantic alliance," Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said at a press conference, Reuters reported.

On Tuesday, Poland proposed transferring its MiG-29 jets to U.S. Ramstein Air Base in Germany so the fighters could be sent to Ukraine.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has been pleading with Western countries to supply the jets to help in his nation fight against Russia.

The Polish proposal, which was not discussed with the U.S. before becoming public, was rejected by Pentagon spokesperson John Kirby later Tuesday.

Poland says it’s ready to send fighter jets to Ukraine in coordination with NATO

Poland said on Wednesday that it wants to work with NATO countries to send fighter jets to Ukraine one day after the U.S. rejected Poland’s proposal.”Such a serious decision as supplying plan…

thehill.com

That's a fair point about NATO approval, but I don't doubt that'll scupper the idea.

 

[vikingBerserker]

That just confuses me. How is it ok to send missles, rockets, ammo and other lethal military hardware but not ok to send aircraft?

 

[SaparotRob]

Political legerdemain? USA doing some sort of bureaucratic butt protection? I agree with vikingBerserker.

 

[wlewisiii]

That just confuses me. How is it ok to send missles, rockets, ammo and other lethal military hardware but not ok to send aircraft?

Aircraft, like ships, must bear the flag of the owning nation.
If a polish flag aircraft landed in Ukraine and then conducted operations, that's an act of war.
If a aircraft is painted with the Ukrainian flag in Poland and flown to Ukraine, that too ends Polish neutrality.

The only possible way around it would be to land in a third party nation (Moldova forex) and have them paint the aircraft in primer & drain all fuel & empty all weapons before the Ukrainians push or pull the aircraft across the border. This would be like what the US did at the Canadian border from 1939 to 1941.

 

[Denniss]

Just tow the MiGs to the polish-ukrainian border and let the Ukrainians "steal" them. Just make sure you remove polish insignias before that.

 

[wlewisiii]

US/Canadian border, 1940

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Aircraft, like ships, must bear the flag of the owning nation.
If a polish flag aircraft landed in Ukraine and then conducted operations, that's an act of war.
If a aircraft is painted with the Ukrainian flag in Poland and flown to Ukraine, that too ends Polish neutrality.

The only possible way around it would be to land in a third party nation (Moldova forex) and have them paint the aircraft in primer & drain all fuel & empty all weapons before the Ukrainians push or pull the aircraft across the border. This would be like what the US did at the Canadian border from 1939 to 1941.

There are ways around that though. When we worked on aircraft being sold to foreign countries we would put huge stickers with the N registration number covering the new country registration. Once it landed in another country they merely peel off the sticker and voila its registered in the new country. No painting required.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Why not also "donate" your ground-attack optimized Sukhoi Su-17s? The US will make sure you're not left defenceless.

While more suited for this situation IMO, it's still a matter of operational training if the aircraft can even be supported logistically. Because the UAF was already operating MiG-25s the transfer would be almost seamless

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

That just confuses me. How is it ok to send missles, rockets, ammo and other lethal military hardware but not ok to send aircraft?

Legally all of the above are acts of war. I'm not sure why all the shilly-shallying over airplanes when we've already broken that law.

 

[wlewisiii]

A brigade? Pulled out because of "loss of effectiveness"? Not good for the Russian Army...

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

The operator of the Chernobyl nuclear plant announced on Wednesday that Russian forces disconnected the facility's power grid.

Ukrenergo, the Ukrainian state-owned grid Chernobyl plant, wrote in a Telegram post that there is "no possibility" of restoring the lines because of Russia's military action in the country.

"Because of military actions of Russian occupiers the nuclear power plant in Chornobyl was fully disconnected from the power grid. The nuclear station has no power supply," Ukenergo wrote.

"The military actions are in progress, so there is no possibility to restore the lines," the company added.

Russian forces took control of the Chernobyl nuclear plant last month amid its invasion of Ukraine. Moscow also seized the Zaporizhzhia power plant.

While it is now closed, the Chernobyl plant requires electricity for cooling, ventilation and fire extinguishing systems, according to The Washington Post.

Ukenergo wrote in a Facebook post on Wednesday that emergency diesel generators on site to supply power to critical systems have been turned on, though the fuel is only enough for 48 hours.

The director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, the United Nations nuclear watchdog, wrote in a statement on Tuesday that "remote data transmission from safeguards monitoring systems installed at the Chornobyl NPP had been lost."

"The Agency is looking into the status of safeguards monitoring systems in other locations in Ukraine and will provide further information soon," the organization added.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba is now calling for a cease-fire from Russia to allow repair units to rectify issues at the plant.

Ukraine says Russian forces disconnected Chernobyl plant from power grid

The operator of the Chernobyl nuclear plant announced on Wednesday that Russian forces disconnected the facility’s power grid.Ukrenergo, the Ukrainian state-owned grid operator, wrote in a Te…

thehill.com

We all saw what happened at Fukushima when those plants lost power to their cooling systems.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The operator of the Chernobyl nuclear plant announced on Wednesday that Russian forces disconnected the facility's power grid.

Ukrenergo, the Ukrainian state-owned grid Chernobyl plant, wrote in a Telegram post that there is "no possibility" of restoring the lines because of Russia's military action in the country.

"Because of military actions of Russian occupiers the nuclear power plant in Chornobyl was fully disconnected from the power grid. The nuclear station has no power supply," Ukenergo wrote.

"The military actions are in progress, so there is no possibility to restore the lines," the company added.

Russian forces took control of the Chernobyl nuclear plant last month amid its invasion of Ukraine. Moscow also seized the Zaporizhzhia power plant.

While it is now closed, the Chernobyl plant requires electricity for cooling, ventilation and fire extinguishing systems, according to The Washington Post.

Ukenergo wrote in a Facebook post on Wednesday that emergency diesel generators on site to supply power to critical systems have been turned on, though the fuel is only enough for 48 hours.

The director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, the United Nations nuclear watchdog, wrote in a statement on Tuesday that "remote data transmission from safeguards monitoring systems installed at the Chornobyl NPP had been lost."

"The Agency is looking into the status of safeguards monitoring systems in other locations in Ukraine and will provide further information soon," the organization added.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba is now calling for a cease-fire from Russia to allow repair units to rectify issues at the plant.

Ukraine says Russian forces disconnected Chernobyl plant from power grid

The operator of the Chernobyl nuclear plant announced on Wednesday that Russian forces disconnected the facility’s power grid.Ukrenergo, the Ukrainian state-owned grid operator, wrote in a Te…

thehill.com

We all saw what happened at Fukushima when those plants lost power to their cooling systems.

Well thats not good. Won't it overheat?

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Well thats not good. Won't it overheat?

Does this mean these plants aren't designed with a "fail safe" mode where it automatically switches to a low power setting making just enough power to handle its own operating needs? Unbelievable!! Downright criminal!!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Does this mean these plants aren't designed with a "fail safe" mode where it automatically switches to a low power setting making just enough power to handle its own operating needs? Unbelievable!! Downright criminal!!

I think the article said they are on emergency power but it was only good for 48 hours.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

From the article…

"I call on the international community to urgently demand Russia to cease fire and allow repair units to restore power supply… Reserve diesel generators have a 48-hour capacity to power the Chornobyl NPP," Kuleba added in a separate tweet. "After that, cooling systems of the storage facility for spent nuclear fuel will stop, making radiation leaks imminent."