Armor modeler needs help with Stuka

[mlmcdonald]

Hi guys. This is sort of a double post as I posted it in the Basic section and was told I should post it here. I'm an armor modeler--specifically of WWII German armor in 1:35. I built models long ago (50s through early 70s), left it, and only returned a couple of years ago. After watching documentaries with me, my wife became quite taken with the Ju-87 Stuka and suggested that I needed one or two of them suspended from the ceiling in our tank factory/knitting room. Naturally wanting to oblige her every wish when it comes to getting any new models, on the recommendation of some guys on an armor forum, I just obtained two 21st Century Toys kits 1:32 kits. Since they will be suspended from the ceiling, they seem to be not bad at all for that purpose, especially considering the price. So now that I'm entering an unfamiliar area, I find myself without any references whatsoever, and I thought maybe you guys could help me out, especially with colors and markings. I'd like to finish them in early war colors, perhaps for the Polish campaign, and really don't know where to start. Thanks for your time.

Michael

 

[Catch22]

I cannot give you the link as I'm in my iPod, but search Wings Palette on google. That should give you all of the reference you need! Good luck, and your wife has good taste!

 

[mlmcdonald]

I'll take a look.

Michael

 

[Njaco]

some nice profiles at this site:

Stuka Junkers Ju-87 WWII German Dive Bomber

 

[Wurger]

Hallo Mlmcdonald,

To begin with, use the link.You can find there some interesting infos and samples of German WW2 colours.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/ai...twaffe-aircraft-camouflage-markings-9318.html

What is more use the link : WINGS PALETTE - Junkers Ju.87 Stuka - Germany (Nazi)

Now some infos on Stuka camouflage patterns.
The Ju 87 prototypes weren't painted at all ( were of aluminium colour ),the national markings painted on fins and rudders only ),callsigns ( registration signs) black painted on fuselages.The first camo pattern was used with Ju 87A in 1937.It was three-colour pattern with sharp-edgy camo spots of RLM62 - Grun / RLM66 - Shwarzgrau / RLM63 - Hellgrau paints. RLM63 was used for painting both upper and undersides and sides of a fuselage as well.The camo was painted using a pattern, the same for all planes.In 1938 the new four-colour camo was introduced for Ju 87s.All spots were angular with sharp broken straight edges of RLM62 - Grun / RLM61 - Dunkelbraun / RLM63 - Hellgrau / RLM 65 - Hellblau on lower surfaces.German national markings on fuselages and wings and black swastik in white circle on red wide strip painted on a fin+rudder.At the beginning of 1939 thr red strip was removed from tails and the black swastik was painted directly on the camo colours.In September 1939 the next camo pattern was introduced.The two-colour pattern was painted with RLM71 - Dunkelgrun / RLM70 - Schwarzgrun / RLM65 - Hellblau. The camo spots were painted with a pattern which was the same for all aircraft.This camo of Ju 87 was used for all models of Stuka up to the end of war.
A little bit different camo pattern of Ju 87s was the desert one.For the camo there were used these colours : RLM79 - Sandgelb / RLM65 Hellblau on undersides / RLM71 - Dunkelgrun for small spots painted with an airbrush on upper and side surfaces ( painted with Sandgelb ).There was a temporary kind of the desert camo used for Stukas with standard RLM70/RLM71 camo pattern made airbrushing RLM79 spots on upper and side surfaces.
The next variant of the desert one was like the standard one but there were used RLM79 Sandgellb / RLM 80 - Olivegrun / RLM78 - Azurblau instead of RLM71/RLM70/RLM65 colours.

The winter camo rested on painting irregularly the white colour RLM21 on standard RLM71/RLM70 camo pattern ( upper and side surfaces).The white paint was quite easy washable, that's way the Stukas with the camo looked like dirty and very run-down.The longer a plane was used the more of the white colour was disappearing.

The night camo for early Ju 87s all surfaces painted with RLM81 - Braunviolet or what was quite rare, with RLM22 - Schwarz.

The camo for later Stukas appeared in two variants :

1. all upper surfaces painted with RLM70 Schwarzgrun - then airbrushed a big number of small spots,mottles and smudges of RLM02 - Grau / RLM65 - Hellblau / RLM74 - Graugrun. RLM75 - Mittelgrau on undersides.

2. all upper surfaces painted with RLM02 - Grau with many spots of a different size of RLM70 and RLM65. Lower surfaces were painted with RLM75.

Additinal colours RLM21 - Weis, RLM27 - Gelb for quick ID elemets ( stripes, yellow painted engine cowlings, rudders, wing tips, etc..)

All these colours were matt.If you have other question,feel free to ask.I hope I have helped a bit.

 

[mlmcdonald]

I appreciate the help. I won't have the chance to look into the information you've all been kind enough to furnish me until this evening, but rest assured that I will then be back with some more specific questions. Thanks again.

Michael

edit: Oops. I mistakenly said that I wouldn't have a chance to look at the information at all. I meant to say "until this evening."

 

[Wurger]

No problem mate.If you need you can always find us here .

Here I've found a colour profile and a B&W pic of Ju 87B-1 of 1./StG1 during Poland campaign 1939.The source AJ-Press "Monografie Lotnicze" no.19.These are and example of camo painting for Ju87 which was worn in that time.

 

[Wayne Little]

Good stuff Guys, recently got me one of those 1/32 21st Century Stuka's , not a bad kit at all!

 

[Wurger]

THX Wayne.

And here is another example of Ju 87B-1 in 1939.Source unknown.

 

[mlmcdonald]

Wurger: That's great! Thanks a million. It's exactly what I was looking for. Now I'm already starting to think that I might need to add a Polish fighter or two (about which I know absolutely nothing) climbing to intercept them. Which would of course call for a couple of Bf-109s. Oh God! This could get out of hand.

Wayne: I just opened mine this morning and it does appear to be quite good. The crew figures are surprisingly good--even with heads and arms that move. I'm hoping to avoid having to use any aftermarket stuff on it at all, other than possibly some decals. One other thing, though, is that although I'm going to hang them from the ceiling, the rear machine gun won't do at all. Any thoughts on what to replace it with?

Michael

 

[mlmcdonald]

Wurger: Which of the numbers or letters would be changed on different aircraft in the same Staffel?

 

[Wurger]

You are welcome Michael. I glad I helped.As far as the Polish fighters are concerned,you should use PZL P-11c or PZL P-7A like these for instance.

Source unknown.

 

[mlmcdonald]

Thanks Wurger. The skies above our panzer factory/knitting room are going to be a busy place indeed. Another question about the Ju-87: what color should I use for the interior?

 

[Wurger]

Wurger: Which of the numbers or letters would be changed on different aircraft in the same Staffel?

The callsign consist of the unit code ( the two first letters on the left side of the cross A5 for instance) then the individual letter of a plane in a squadron and then a letter of the coded number of the squadron.So only the individual letter could be changed on different aircraft in the same squadron .

For interior of cockpit you should use RLM66 - Schwarzgrau.

 

[mlmcdonald]

Aha. So in the one with the unit designation of "A5," the letter of the aircraft would be the first one to the right of the balkenkreuz, i.e. "A" and the squadron designation would be "K". Right? So would that be the squadron leader, with the next aircraft bearing the letters A5 (cross) BK, and so on?

I actually have some Schwarzgrau on hand. Tomorrow I'll be asking you about exterior colors. I'm thinking that the first profile above, which is, I take it, Dunkelgrun/Schwarzgrun over Hellgrau or Hellblau, is the one I'll make.

Thanks so much for all the help. I really appreciate it.

Michael

 

[Njaco]

Mac, here is a link to help with a pic from that site.

The Luftwaffe in Scale: Identification Codes of Luftwaffe Units 1939 - 1945

also understand that color of the letter also plays an important part like that red "Y".

 

[Wurger]

Aha. So in the one with the unit designation of "A5," the letter of the aircraft would be the first one to the right of the balkenkreuz, i.e. "A" and the squadron designation would be "K". Right? So would that be the squadron leader, with the next aircraft bearing the letters A5 (cross) BK, and so on?

Yes you are right,the "A" letter is the individual one and the "K" is a Staffel coded number.But as far as the squadron leader is concerned,every Gruppe had its own Stuff Staffel called GruppenStab Staffel where all planes wore green individal letters.So the Gruppe leader's aircraft could wear green A letter and then the last letter was as shown in the uploaded below picture.The last letter depended on a Gruppe.The Staffel leader could fly with "A" of the Staffel colour on fuselage but I'm not sure.I haven't found any infos on the matter so far.

 

[Wayne Little]

Wayne: I just opened mine this morning and it does appear to be quite good. The crew figures are surprisingly good--even with heads and arms that move. I'm hoping to avoid having to use any aftermarket stuff on it at all, other than possibly some decals. One other thing, though, is that although I'm going to hang them from the ceiling, the rear machine gun won't do at all. Any thoughts on what to replace it with?

Michael

Well if the gun is not an option you don't really have much else in the way of choice mate, i don't recall there being anything else used there I'm afraid.?

Keep up the good stuff Wurger, that chart is a good simple one for reference, those codes can be confusing to work out.

 

[Njaco]

Fighters are totally different!! Ugh, wavy lines and such.

 

[mlmcdonald]

Well if the gun is not an option you don't really have much else in the way of choice mate, i don't recall there being anything else used there I'm afraid.?

I'm afraid I wasn't very clear in what I meant. I wasn't actually asking about whether to replace the gun with something other than a gun, but rather about whether there might be a better aftermarket gun available than the gun in the kit. Sorry for the confusion.

Njaco and Wurger: Thanks for the info. It's rather complex, isn't it, though it does seem to be more certain than the colors of Panzer turret numbers, which is subject to much disagreement since it depends entirely on how one interprets the b&w photos of the time.

Michael