Erich
the old Sage
ah gents I thought this thread was about what-if's and the B-29 ?
c'mon guys .............
c'mon guys .............
B-29s over Germany
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syscom3
Pacific Historian
Erich, if indeed the Ta-152 was sped up in development, when could the first sizeable numbers of them take to the sky?
And would these early model -152's be problem free and significantly better than the allied types as to regain local air superiority?
And would these early model -152's be problem free and significantly better than the allied types as to regain local air superiority?
Erich
the old Sage
my opinion only .......... we would never have seen the Fw 190 Dora. the Ta 152 would of been the replacement. It was scheduled to be so anyway along with the newly-modified Me 262 by summer and fall of 45.
so most probably by December 44, although the Dora was in III./JG 54 by the fall of 44 the Ta was not yet ready quite yet
so most probably by December 44, although the Dora was in III./JG 54 by the fall of 44 the Ta was not yet ready quite yet
Soundbreaker Welch?
Tech Sergeant
the Ta 152 would of been the replacement.
The Dora was enough of a job to tackle for us flyboys. We don't need any replacements,thank you very much!!!
The Dora was enough of a job to tackle for us flyboys. We don't need any replacements,thank you very much!!!
Erich
the old Sage
Baloney we have been through this before; the Ta 152H was outstanding at the time----reality----- would of stood up to the best the Allies had to offer. the Dora was sub-standard to the Tank and it was proven via the JG 301 pilots that flew both models. the tank exploded off the runway and turned on a dime, the zoom characteristics and dive, nothing could touch it.
alright back to topic
alright back to topic
syscom3
Pacific Historian
I like Erichs new avatar.
Besides being Col. Klink, it looks like hes giving us a stern lecture.
Besides being Col. Klink, it looks like hes giving us a stern lecture.
Henk
Master Sergeant
He he he.
Once again, Udet, you are in that world of imagination where you think you know everything about everyone. When you know nothing. It was a lot like your take on the Germans and Germany, which couldn't have been further from the truth. But I will leave this here, because what you have said has made me smile with your blatant ignorance about the people on this site. And I don't want to ruin this thread.
Erich, I don't think the Ta-152H would be enough of a performer to take on the Allied escorts on a five to one basis. And this is what they'd be facing. If the development would be speeded up the Ta-152 could have probably been in higher numbers, but as the Ta-152 increases in number so do the Allied escorts.
Erich, I don't think the Ta-152H would be enough of a performer to take on the Allied escorts on a five to one basis. And this is what they'd be facing. If the development would be speeded up the Ta-152 could have probably been in higher numbers, but as the Ta-152 increases in number so do the Allied escorts.
Henk
Master Sergeant
Yep, that was the problem, Germany could not produce enough aircraft and fighting on three fronts did not help either.
syscome3 said:
Please tell me you are kidding, oh please tell me you are kidding!
syscom3 said:
And that means what? That the P-80 and the Meteor would outlfy a Me-262 in combat? Prove, cuz you can not. I can not prove that a Me-262 would outfly the other too. The difference is, I dont make assumptions and tell others that theres dont mean ****, as you do.
Erich
the old Sage
HOGAN !
now guys ............ as he pulls up his index finger .............
no I am not saying that the Ta 152H would take out all Allied escorts just that it was the replacement for the Dora had it been able to overcome earlier mechanical designs and pushed into sevice. Even the C prototype was pushed into service by JG 301, with basically parts but some of the test frames that did remarkable in high flight tests were armed and ready to go against the Soviers.
quite naturally hardly enough and too late, but had the Ta 152H been in the front lines in more air units then we would of seen the aerial combats with Mutangs that we often chat and wonder about.
secondary note I have come up with 4 multi-questions last night to former JG 301 veteran Will Reschke for his personal attentions of the TA 152H's that he drove
now guys ............ as he pulls up his index finger .............
no I am not saying that the Ta 152H would take out all Allied escorts just that it was the replacement for the Dora had it been able to overcome earlier mechanical designs and pushed into sevice. Even the C prototype was pushed into service by JG 301, with basically parts but some of the test frames that did remarkable in high flight tests were armed and ready to go against the Soviers.
quite naturally hardly enough and too late, but had the Ta 152H been in the front lines in more air units then we would of seen the aerial combats with Mutangs that we often chat and wonder about.
secondary note I have come up with 4 multi-questions last night to former JG 301 veteran Will Reschke for his personal attentions of the TA 152H's that he drove
syscom3
Pacific Historian
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
The P80's and meteors could orbit the airfields and wait for the -262's to land or take off and then shoot them down. They were faster than the
delcyros
Tech Sergeant
Yes, they can but it doesn´t makes much sense to me:
The Meteor-III lacks the speed to do so and is a huge target size to hit by LAA.
The P-80 being fast and nimble, lacks endurance to do so (according to the aircraft manual it was strictly advised to keep high ceiling in order to have a somehow useful endurance because at low alts, the fuel consumption was horrible. To some degree this also goes for the Meteor). It makes little sense to waste fuel at low alts with these jets, altough the Meteor-III performed some ground attacks in the closing weeks of ww2 (Take notice that all Meteor-III deployed over continental europe had a white camouflage in order to avoid beeing mistaken as a Me-262 - that´s no good). Airfields also is relative: The use of streets, open fields and autobahn as improvised airfield was widespread in 1945.
The allied piston engined A/C could perform these tasks more effectively.
The Meteor-III lacks the speed to do so and is a huge target size to hit by LAA.
The P-80 being fast and nimble, lacks endurance to do so (according to the aircraft manual it was strictly advised to keep high ceiling in order to have a somehow useful endurance because at low alts, the fuel consumption was horrible. To some degree this also goes for the Meteor). It makes little sense to waste fuel at low alts with these jets, altough the Meteor-III performed some ground attacks in the closing weeks of ww2 (Take notice that all Meteor-III deployed over continental europe had a white camouflage in order to avoid beeing mistaken as a Me-262 - that´s no good). Airfields also is relative: The use of streets, open fields and autobahn as improvised airfield was widespread in 1945.
The allied piston engined A/C could perform these tasks more effectively.
Agreed Delycos and very well said. You see that is what I am talking about, looking at more than just the angle of "This is how I say it would be and that is the way it is!"
Glider
Captain
If we want to get into the waht ifs then I believe that this should be a different thread. This one was simply, How well would the B29 have done in the ETO.
People are now talking about P80's which didn't take part in the ETO theatre (apart from two in the MTO which may or may not have undertaken a couple of unofficial missions).
Metors being used to bounce Me262 which they didn't,
Follow On 262's that didn't fight and probably (not to sure here) didn't fly, etc, I think you get my drift.
If we want a thread re what would have happened in the Germans had held on for another 12 months because, say, the first D Day was replused, then can I ask someone to start it?
People are now talking about P80's which didn't take part in the ETO theatre (apart from two in the MTO which may or may not have undertaken a couple of unofficial missions).
Metors being used to bounce Me262 which they didn't,
Follow On 262's that didn't fight and probably (not to sure here) didn't fly, etc, I think you get my drift.
If we want a thread re what would have happened in the Germans had held on for another 12 months because, say, the first D Day was replused, then can I ask someone to start it?
Erich
the old Sage
from the very onset this whole thread has been a what-if and now getting much more polluted .............
Agreed
Twitch
Staff Sergeant
To simplify things let's only imagine the X-4 was developed with more impetus after its 1st test in April 1944. Just about any fighter could mount them and being wire-guided with a 3.5 mile range they were impervious to jamming.
KA-BOOM!
KA-BOOM!
