- Thread starter
- #61
jhor9
Airman
gis-nl said:
I think this pattern was pretty standard for the time
B17
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I think this pattern was pretty standard for the time
syscom3
Pacific Historian
Thanks again Jules.
Next questions:
1) When did your group find out you were going to Italy?
2) What route did you fly over there?
3) What were your impressions of the place when you arrived?
Next questions:
1) When did your group find out you were going to Italy?
2) What route did you fly over there?
3) What were your impressions of the place when you arrived?
Haztoys
Senior Airman
Great to have you here
One more if I may ..
You were trained .... Training was done ...Off to the ETO..You go ..
Now ..How did the training work out ...??
American training was good on showing what combat would be like ...
Or .. Was not ..???
OR..??
Thanks
David
One more if I may ..
You were trained .... Training was done ...Off to the ETO..You go ..
Now ..How did the training work out ...??
American training was good on showing what combat would be like ...
Or .. Was not ..???
OR..??
Thanks
David
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Hey Jules, do u ever get tired of answering questions??? Im sure u understand why someone like urself is so interesting to guys like us...
davparlr
Senior Master Sergeant
- Thread starter
- #66
jhor9
Airman
lesofprimus said:
Not at all. If the younger gererations are interested in my gererations feats in WW2, I for one am glad to answer questions. It also proves to me that I still don't have Alzheimers. Fire away with your querys.
For the last 15 years, when the Collings planes come to the 3 local airports in my area, I stay by the B17 and act as a docent.
- Thread starter
- #67
jhor9
Airman
syscom3 said:
I never did answer your question, here goes----
1. During crew training I was assigned to a provisional group, consisting of six crews, C.O. was a bird Col.
2. left Palm Beach, FL then to Puerto Rico,British Guyana, Belm Brazil, Natal Brazil. All day flights just keeping in sight of each other. Then from Natl to Dakar, West Africa, then Marrakesh, finally to Rabat, Morocco where we stayed until assigned to a group as replacements,
3. I was impressed by my surroundings,
since I had never been out of the country
- Thread starter
- #68
jhor9
Airman
Haztoys said:
David,
How about this as an eye opener!!!
After I got my crew we went to Boise, Idaho for 1st phase, it was unbelievable (Incidentally, Jimmie Stewart, the actor was a 1st Lt.B17 instructor) We sat around for about 4 weeks doing absolutely nothing, Then the next 2 weeks we did 8 weeks of flying. Maybe I might have gotten back to my barracks 3 times for a shower and a change of clothes, the rest of the time I slept in the ready room, at the line. We didn't even have time to go to the mess hall, I would send a crew member to the PX or the mess hall to get sandwiches and milk for the rest of us. But the worst part was that when I got my medical shots, I asked the technician to make sure to give me the tetanus shot in my right arm, because I had to use muscle with my left to manage the planes control column, he screwed up and I got it in the wrong arm. The typhoid shot gave me a fever, you can imagine the condition I was in, dizzy with fever and a partially numb arm, with a copilot who had never been in a B17. Flying at night in snowstorms and using the radio range doing instrument flying, with 3000ft mountains about 3-4 miles away paralleling the runway.
Then we had 2nd and 3rd phase at Rapid City S.Dakota . Here we had a fuel problem our training was just cross country, just to get refueled so that the next crew would do the same thing. The maintenance was poor because as soon as ground people became experienced they were shipped out, There was one incident where a crew made a forced landing in the badlands, all 4 engines quit because they ran out of fuel. During this time I also had a generator catch fire while in flight. I never had a formation or high altitude flight, until I got on the job training in combat.
After finishing my so called training we had a 5 day delay en route to our next base. We all went home because we knew that we were going overseas when we returned, 2 of my crew never returned, I got replacements. I wasn't joking when I told my folks that I was lucky to finish my "training", it would probably be safer overseas.
We were losing the war during this period, and they needed crews overseas ASAP.
Wow I can only imagine what it must have been like. The training today is so much different, but at the same time, the crews are not prepared for combat today. It is actually scary.
- Thread starter
- #70
jhor9
Airman
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
I think that you are wrong, I think that today's flight crews are well prepared. I get "Air Force" magazine and from what I gather the flying people are well trained. The smaller number of trainees, because of cost factors, I believe are well trained. One example that occurs to me is the top gun test which is most competitive.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
JHOR,
Greetings this memorial day. Thanks for your service to us all in the second world war, and thanks for your contributions to the website!
Greetings this memorial day. Thanks for your service to us all in the second world war, and thanks for your contributions to the website!
Erich
the old Sage
Jules I will second what syscom says in a big "thanks" to your generation for helping keep America free and the world
Erich ~
Erich ~
jhor9 said:
Well I can not speak for the Airforce but in Army Aviation none of the training that we recieved prepared us for flying in Iraq. We only trained for fighting a different kind of war such as the Russian Hoared. I am sure the aircrews that came to Iraq after us, recieved better training.
davparlr
Senior Master Sergeant
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Historically, the military has always been preparing for the last war. Luckily, there are always a few who prepare for the future. Also, military personnel tend to learn very quickly on the battlefield!
That sounds about right. Our Training area has just switched over now for the kind of environment and war we are fighting now.
P
PipsPriller
Guest
Hi jhor, what was the normal operating height for your missions? If that varied at all, did you have a preference for a height that you found the B-17 flew best at?
- Thread starter
- #77
jhor9
Airman
PipsPriller said:
Most of my sorties were flown between 20M and 28M feet. The higher one goes the more difficult it is to fly in tight formation, because of the air density.From the time that you change the throttle setting until you get a reaction, there is a time lapse of 2 or 3 seconds. However the different time lapse between 20 and 28M feet is hardly noticeable, Of course if one leads an element or a sqdn that is not much a problem.
I remember from experience that if a person flew a wing slot in the 3rd element, unless one had a good sqdn leader who made very minor corrections, it made it much easier for the guy in the #8 or #9 position. We had one leader who made greater then minor corrections, when he led, the sqdn was all over the sky.
Erich
the old Sage
Jules my question is similiar to your last response to the poster.
# 1 how many missions did you fly over Vienna
# 2 since the city was armed with heavy Flak towers of twin- 128mm AA guns did your B-17 group fly higher than normal here than say Wiener Neustadt or Steyr, Linz etc. during those oeprations ?
many thanks
Erich ~
# 1 how many missions did you fly over Vienna
# 2 since the city was armed with heavy Flak towers of twin- 128mm AA guns did your B-17 group fly higher than normal here than say Wiener Neustadt or Steyr, Linz etc. during those oeprations ?
many thanks
Erich ~
- Thread starter
- #79
jhor9
Airman
I flew 2 missions in Vienna area, Weiner Neustadt. It was abou 25-26M feet, about the same as most others.
- Thread starter
- #80
jhor9
Airman
I flew 2 missions in the Vienna area, Weiner Neustadt. It was about 25-26M feet, about the same as most others.
