Best AA weapon

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and phalanx isn't a missile system, it's a rotary cannon.......

 

[Glider]

A 20mm no less, but the point was that its a point defence system which one of the earlier postings thought could hit a cannon shell.
I don't know if it can or not but I do know that the Seawolf can.
This was a major factor in the Falklands as the Argentine pilots knew that as well. It doesn't do your morale much good if your attacking a ship which may have a seawolf and in the back of your mind there's a voice saying, if it can hit a cannon shell whats the chances of it missing a plane?

 

[Glider]

One addendum to my last posting is that there was a lot of credit given to the Argentine Airforce by the Navy for pressing their attacks in despite their losses and their knowledge of the defences. This credit was fully deserved.

 

[trackend]

Agreed Glider of the three services I think the AAF put up a very good show no lack of guts there.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but the phalanx isn't used against planes, that's what the harriers were for

 

[plan_D]

Yes, the Argentine Air Force pressed on with grievous losses - credit to the crews but no credit to the Command. It was a dying war for them as soon as Thatcher said we would take the islands back.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Funny thing, in simulated combats before the war, the frenchs with his Mirage IIIE and earlys M-2000 seems very superior to the Sea Harrier.

But in the practice the abilities of the Harrier FRS.1 for the Viffing and the superior AIM-9L made it a deadly combination.

Back on topic:

British 40 mm in action.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Glider wrote

One addendum to my last posting is that there was a lot of credit given to the Argentine Airforce by the Navy for pressing their attacks in despite their losses and their knowledge of the defences. This credit was fully deserved.

Sorry I could not resist, here a pic of british AAA shooting at A-4Bs from Grupo 5 attacking HMS Coventry and HMS Broadsword, 25th may 1982.

 

[Glider]

Charles. I don't know if you know the story behind that incident. During the Falklands the Seawolf was still being introduced into service and wasn't a 'mature' weapon system. To help with any technical problems some of the manufacturers technical people were given commisions and went to sea with the RN to help with any technical issues that might occur.
In this incident the missiles locked onto the two targets some distance out but the Seawolf only has a short range and the crew waited for the A4's to get into range.
The A4's were obviously ducking and diving and at one point they passed direectly behind each other. For some reason this hadn't been tested and when this happened the Seawolf guidance system crashed. Suddenly the ship went from a position of being very confident to being almost defencless its main defence being one ex WW2 20mm plus a few GPMG's.
The technical expert was doing his damndest to get the system going again and all he could hear in the silence of the control room was a crew member saying, 15 miles and closing, 12 miles and closing, 10 miles and closing, 8 miles and closing, 6 miles and closing. He could feel everyone looking at him and no one could help. In the end at the last moment he got the system free to fire under local control which must have had some impact as the planes missed the ship and the missiles missed the planes.
Honours were even but thats what I call pressure.
No doubt the story has grown over time but there is no doubt that the lock on, planes crossing, system crashing and firing at the last moment did occur.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

Funny thing, in simulated combats before the war, the frenchs with his Mirage IIIE and earlys M-2000 seems very superior to the Sea Harrier

i've always read the exact opposite actually??

 

[CharlesBronson]

The A4's were obviously ducking and diving and at one point they passed direectly behind each other. For some reason this hadn't been tested and when this happened the Seawolf guidance system crashed. Suddenly the ship went from a position of being very confident to being almost defencless its main defence being one ex WW2 20mm plus a few GPMG's.

Yes, and other problem for the HMS Broadsword was the HMS Coventry wich crossed his line of fire when the gunners where aiming manually the Seawolf guidance sistem. C. Carballo and M. Rinke had a lucky strike in this aspect.

all he could hear in the silence of the control room was a crew member saying, 15 miles and closing, 12 miles and closing, 10 miles and closing, 8 miles and closing, 6 miles and closing.

I ve listen the actual tape from the battlestations in a National Geographic TV program, is quite impressive.

 

[Glider]

I wish I could hear that tape. With luck it will be on again some time.
One small point the Harriers never VIFFED. Its something that they would only do as a last resort as you lose energy and speed making you a sitting duck if theres a second plane around.

The only performance advantage the Mirage had over the Harrier was speed but at these ranges from base they couldn't afford to use much if any afterburner negating that advantage.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i've read a combat report of a guy that VIFFed unfortunatly it was in a magazine my mum threw out but, even if this was just a one of, atleast one guy did it.......

 

[CharlesBronson]

According to the V Brigada Aerea pilot Guillermo Senn ( Mirage IIIEA), the FRS.1 who shoot him down, made this manouver before unleash the mortal blow.

I wish I could hear that tape. With luck it will be on again some time.

You probably will.....check this, it was on air the 5 of July at 10.00 am in the UK......maybe in the repetitions.....

http://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/watch/Print_default.asp?Currentdate=7/5/2005

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

and phalanx isn't a missile system, it's a rotary cannon.......

Never said it was a missle system.

but the phalanx isn't used against planes, that's what the harriers were for

Actually it can be used against any kind of flying object. It is mostly used as the last defence against missles but can be used against any flyign object.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

yes it can be, i never said it could, i said it isn't, which it isn't, well okay maybe occasionally but not often

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Alright I will give you that bacause aircraft is not its main target.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Oerlikon KCB 30mm twin mounting on british frigate.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i don't believe we use them any more.......

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Would not know but I thought most modern navy's such as the US Navy and the Royal Navy dont use AA guns anymore but rather missles now.