Best Bomber Killing Aircraft......

[cheddar cheese]

Yup.


Hey If I joined a forum about cars I would be the man (or boy, however you see 15 year olds) to fear

Trouble is I cant brsed to get into one cos theyre all already popular, when I joined this site it was very new and there werent that many active members. If I could come across a car site in a similar situation I would be straight in

 

[Erich]

The SturmFw 190 A-8/R2 or R8 variant hands down as shown on my web-site pages. Sine I hade a site for a umber of years "Sturmgruppen missions 1944"

Indeed the 262 was way too fast when they attacked from the rear and thier was only a couple of seconds to fire and if the pilot was not experienced then he could easily overshoot.

For the SturmFw the 13mm were used to pinpoint the shots of the larger cannon since they had the range of the US .50. many times the 13mm's were pulled off the heavy 190 as it just added unecessary weight so the 20mm's could do the job. with the newer emplaced M rounds 3-4 30mm rounds could bring down a US or RAF heavy and only 8-10 of the 20mm was needed to do the same.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

with the newer emplaced M rounds 3-4 30mm rounds could bring down a US or RAF heavy and only 8-10 of the 20mm was needed to do the same.

ah but that depends on where you put the bullets, in most of the fusilage, nothing'll happen, in the engines/fuel tanks/wing you're in trouble, obvious i know but i don't think anyone's said that yet and i thought it was worth pointing out..........................

 

[Erich]

It acutually did not matter as one placed 30mm round would take the tail off any allied bomber as it made a 4-6 foot wide hole.

The M HE/I and I have covered this is an earlier posting this past late spring, once hit the aluminum skin of a bomber would start an immediate fire, now concerning close in combat with the SturmFw, not just the 30mm's were ued but also in conjuction with the two 20mm weapons so whose counting rounds ? The fact is that some of the Sturm pilots got within 30 yards before they banked away to ensure a kill. these guys were nothing but crazy but I have to hand it to them probably no braver pilots than these. this is not to discount any other pilots from any of the countrys particpating in the war............

 

[NightHawk]

was bullet proof glass used on bombers in ww2 ?
if not it is possibul to kill the pilots, and the plane will go out of contorl.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

"I have to hand it to them probably no braver pilots than these"

i'm sorry but i'm gonna have to disagree and say the torp. bomber pilots of RAF bomber command were braver, i've read about some of the stuff they did and it's truely amazing...................

 

[Erich]

can't say except that I hae had personal interivew with the Sturm pilots as well as gun cam footage. pretty bloody scary with all the .50 round flying at you from such close quarters and not knowing when the US bomber was going to explode in your face. Their stories are rivetting from the word "go"

night hawk there was no need to hit the canopy to disable or kill the crewmen. The Sprenggschoss M round both in the 2cm and 3cm was terribly devastating. Due to the extreme explosive effects the entire insides of the bombers would be full of carnage, on fire or just plain blown out through the sides without any of the bomber crewmen being able to bail out. Shearing off a wing was not uncommon and the poor bomber crewmen would be held within the framework of the bomber by the G forces as it spun out of control and then vaporized. War is Hell and this was truly an example of such horror...........

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and you had next to no chance of getting out, especailly in a lanc...............

 

[cheddar cheese]

and you had next to no chance of getting out, especailly in a lanc...............

I must say I love the way that the tail gunner escaped

Yet another down fall of the Lancaster there as well...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but it wasn't just bad in the lanc, it was bad in most all bombers.....................

 

[cheddar cheese]

but it wasn't just bad in the lanc, it was bad in most all bombers.....................

Assuming thats a typo of "mostly", that makes no sense How can you have "mostly all" Even if it isn't a typo it still doesnt make sense 8)

 

[Gemhorse]

I gotta get into this !!
- Erich's right about the M ammo, known as 'Mine'...In reading 'Nachtjagd' [Theo Boiten], Karl-Heinz Becker describes flying the 262 against the Nightfighter Mosquitos, and approaching the target aircraft at an overtaking speed of 150 mph., they only had a short time to aim and shoot. Armed with 4x MK108 30mm's, with their lower rate of fire, coming in real close to fire resulted in less incidents of target aircraft exploding and damaging the 262.- Every 5th shell was a 'glow' shell [not as bright as tracer] and in between were armour-piercing and 'mine' shells, which with these, at the slightest contact, blew a huge hole or even tore a wing off....
The 262's were the only solution to the Mosquitos, but it was too little, too late....but they certainly sorted-out bombers effectively, day or night...These guys were having a contest to see who used the least ammo for the most kills !
I have to say 262's were faster and 4x 30mm in the nose at close range with that ammo-load packed, must be real deadly....
Another point too, the 190's would suffer a recoil penalty that probably wouldn't have disadvantaged the 262's....
However, the 190's were at it longer than the 262's, and probably had it off-pat, and overall would have the greater number of kills, but they must've suffered some losses...Stuff-all 262's were lost to return-fire in comparison in the Nachtjagd.....

 

[NightHawk]

but why not use a ju-87 with 2 flak 38 under the wings ??? from a close range a 38 will destroy a bomber in a matter of seconds.

 

[cheddar cheese]

1. Ju-87's are so too slow to even keep up with the bombers in the first place.
2. The fighter escorts would absolutely muller the Ju-87

And if we're going to be silly like that, why not use a Henschel Hs-129 with 75mm cannon in the nose? That would wipe out a few... Or if you want to go beyond the realms of impossibility, We could always use a Piaggio P.108A with 102mm cannon Well, it would at least be better than a stuka

 

[NightHawk]

or you can fly a kamikazy plane like the japanis but not against shits but against bombers.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Thats a bit wasteful though, using your life and one plane to knock down what would only probably be one bomber...

 

[NightHawk]

so eject 1 sec befor you smash.

 

[cheddar cheese]

But then you aint a kamikaze pilot And its still a waste of a plane.

And do you know how tricky it was to eject back then? You dont just push a button, You gotta fling the canopy back and undo your straps (Did they even wear straps of any kind back then), and then climb out. All of which take at least 10 seconds, and if you were flying the He-162 or the manned version of the V1, you werent shaping to well...

The plane would go off course too.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

it was bad in most all bombers

sorry, meant to say "almost all" bombers...................

 

[Erich]

yes straps were used to keep the fighter pilot in his seat while doing maneuvers.

there was no different recoil in the heavy SturmFw as there was in the regular four 2cm mounted A-8 variant. The 262 was problem at night with the 3cm because of the blinding flash and the closeness with which the jet had to be to a RAF a/c to knock it down. In the case of Dr. boiten who I know he only included just scant information on Becker as Becker on at least two occassions only used two 3cm weapons and yeas they could be fired as either two or four weapons. Becker will be covered in our book in-depth as we have a copy of his log-books.

The Bf 110G-2 with all it's funny heavy arms experiments were no match for the Allied escorts, neither was the 50mm equipped Me 410 A and B variants. Even the Me 262 had an experiment with a 50mm piece and on both missions the cannon failed by jamming. the unit was part of the JV 44 fighter group under Adolf Galland and flown by a German night fighter ace who transferred into the unit. Even with the jets speed the big gun slowed the a/c down and it was very hard to aim the heavy piece as it threw off the aerodynamics of the jet.

E ~