Best Fighter in Service Before 1 September 1939

[Amsel]

I'm with you Njaco. The Emil was combat tested and a great fighter for its time. Probably the best fighter in 1939.

 

[Civettone]

Have to agree with that top 5: Bf 109, Spitf, P-36 (especially if with 4 0.50cal), Bf 110 and Hurricane.
But the Bloch MB.152 could be in that list too though few were operational at the end of 1939. Also honorable mention for the P-35, MS-406, the Russian I-16 and the Dutch D-XXI.


Kris

 

[marshall]

After reading all answers and after doing some more research myself it really seems that top fighters were Bf 109 and Spitfire. Bf 109 being more mature at 1 September but Spitfire was catching up fast and soon became equaly good fighter.

Though it seems pretty obvious, I had this feeling that there is all this hype about those two planes that they were so good that in reality they couldn't have been so good but as it occurs both types deserve the legendary status they have.

But maybe there was a fighter plane in service at the outbreak of the war that with equal development that Bf 109 and Spitfire had, could match those two?

And another question, what was the first fighter that matched or exceeded the peformance of these two types?

 

[Clay_Allison]

After reading all answers and after doing some more research myself it really seems that top fighters were Bf 109 and Spitfire. Bf 109 being more mature at 1 September but Spitfire was catching up fast and soon became equaly good fighter.

Though it seems pretty obvious, I had this feeling that there is all this hype about those two planes that they were so good that in reality they couldn't have been so good but as it occurs both types deserve the legendary status they have.

But maybe there was a fighter plane in service at the outbreak of the war that with equal development that Bf 109 and Spitfire had, could match those two?

And another question, what was the first fighter that matched or exceeded the peformance of these two types?

Well, the P-51B was probably the first comparable plane that really started to outperform them within their own fighter type.

 

[vikingBerserker]

Me 109 hands down, but I have to give kudos to the PZL P24G and Nakajima Ki-27 "Nate"

 

[Civettone]

You know, you cannot not notice the fact that the top 5 (Bf 109, 110, Spit, Hurri and P-36) were also the 5 most powerful fighters ! All had engines around 1200 HP.

Kris

 

[Clay_Allison]

You know, you cannot not notice the fact that the top 5 (Bf 109, 110, Spit, Hurri and P-36) were also the 5 most powerful fighters ! All had engines around 1200 HP.

Kris

the next in line, the I-16 had 1100 Horsepower.

 

[Vincenzo]

for true none have a 1100 bhp in flying power setting

edit for clear this mean that 1100 bhp and over were only in take off power settings

 

[Vincenzo]

Have to agree with that top 5: Bf 109, Spitf, P-36 (especially if with 4 0.50cal), Bf 110 and Hurricane.

afaik no production Hawk 75 has 4 .50'

 

[Waynos]

And another question, what was the first fighter that matched or exceeded the peformance of these two types?

In service, probably the Fw 190, which appeared before the P-51.

 

[Njaco]

I agree with Waynos.

 

[Vincenzo]

In service, probably the Fw 190, which appeared before the P-51.

i can add Zero in summer '40 i think matched spit and emil also if have trouble with "armoured" also if it's knew for the toughness of structure

 

[Glider]

afaik no production Hawk 75 has 4 .50'

I think that most of the French Hawk 75 's had 4 x LMG and some with 6 but am not sure of the split.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

afaik no production Hawk 75 has 4 .50'

Detroyat's enthusiasm, problems with the MB.150, and the pressure of continuing German rearmament finally forced France to purchase 100 aircraft and 173 engines. The first Hawk 75A-1 arrived in France in December 1938 and began entering service in March 1939. After the first few examples, aircraft were delivered in pieces and assembled in France by the Société Nationale de Constructions Aéronautiques du Centre. Officially designated Curtiss H75-C1 (the "Hawk" name was not used in France), the aircraft were powered by Pratt Whitney R-1830-SC-G engines with 900 hp (671 kW) and had metric, translated instruments, a seat for French dorsal parachutes, a French-style throttle which operated in reverse from U.S. and British aircraft (e.g. full throttle was to the rear rather than to the front) and armament of four 7.5 mm FN-Browning machine guns.

Hawk 75A-1 - First production batch for France, 4 × 7.5 mm (.295 in) machine guns, R-1830-SC-G engine with 900 hp (671 kW), 100 built
Hawk 75A-2 - Second production batch for France, either R-1830-SC-G engine or 1,050 hp (783 kW) R-1830-SC3-G engine, 6 × 7.5 mm (0.295 in) machine guns, 100 built
Hawk 75A-3 - Third production batch for France, similar with Hawk 75A-2[5], 135 built
Hawk 75A-4 - Last production batch for France, Hawk 75A-2 with Wright R-1820-G205A Cyclone engine with 1,200 hp (895 kW). 285 built, 81 delivered to France, others to Great Britain as Mohawk IV


Although from Wiki, these references are mentioned in several other books I have read.

 

[Vincenzo]

Detroyat's enthusiasm, problems with the MB.150, and the pressure of continuing German rearmament finally forced France to purchase 100 aircraft and 173 engines. The first Hawk 75A-1 arrived in France in December 1938 and began entering service in March 1939. After the first few examples, aircraft were delivered in pieces and assembled in France by the Société Nationale de Constructions Aéronautiques du Centre. Officially designated Curtiss H75-C1 (the "Hawk" name was not used in France), the aircraft were powered by Pratt Whitney R-1830-SC-G engines with 900 hp (671 kW) and had metric, translated instruments, a seat for French dorsal parachutes, a French-style throttle which operated in reverse from U.S. and British aircraft (e.g. full throttle was to the rear rather than to the front) and armament of four 7.5 mm FN-Browning machine guns.

Hawk 75A-1 - First production batch for France, 4 × 7.5 mm (.295 in) machine guns, R-1830-SC-G engine with 900 hp (671 kW), 100 built
Hawk 75A-2 - Second production batch for France, either R-1830-SC-G engine or 1,050 hp (783 kW) R-1830-SC3-G engine, 6 × 7.5 mm (0.295 in) machine guns, 100 built
Hawk 75A-3 - Third production batch for France, similar with Hawk 75A-2[5], 135 built
Hawk 75A-4 - Last production batch for France, Hawk 75A-2 with Wright R-1820-G205A Cyclone engine with 1,200 hp (895 kW). 285 built, 81 delivered to France, others to Great Britain as Mohawk IV


Although from Wiki, these references are mentioned in several other books I have read.

flyboyj this is agree with my affirmation no hawk 75 had 4 .50'. for wiki i can add that not all A-2 had 6 7.5 mm and the new engine.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

flyboyj this is agree with my affirmation no hawk 75 had 4 .50'. for wiki i can add that not all A-2 had 6 7.5 mm and the new engine.

And I stand corrected on my earlier post.

 

[Civettone]

afaik no production Hawk 75 has 4 .50'

My bad! Must have been mixing it up with the 4 0.30 cals and the Belgian Hurricanes with 4 0.50cals. tssssssssssssss


Kris

 

[Gnomey]

At the start of the war there isn't really any choice in the matter. At this time the BF-109E3 was the best match of capabilities and armament as well as being combat tested. I would place the Spitfire second and the Hurricane third (with the better French and Italian types about equal with it).

 

[Clay_Allison]

At the start of the war there isn't really any choice in the matter. At this time the BF-109E3 was the best match of capabilities and armament as well as being combat tested. I would place the Spitfire second and the Hurricane third (with the better French and Italian types about equal with it).

Don't sell the Bf 110 short in that pahase of the game. It might have become obsolete later but with that armament and horsepower in 1939 you could boom and zoom with the best of them.

 

[Condora]

So, to be counted in here, it has to be operational in at least one full squadron strength before 31/08/39?

Damn!
That leaves the Westland Whirlwind out. There's a plane with no luck, not even in operational date of entry...