Blimey.....Vikings!

[Airframes]

I thought they were a Viking prototype for those hats with Coke or beer cans attached, with drinking tubes running down the front ! The horns were really drinking vessels, containing the Viking version of Guinness ...........

 

[Lucky13]

Yup.....the world famous mjod! 8)

 

[bobbysocks]

belive i saw on discovery or the history channel about how the vikings could have did it. according to this account the polar ice cap at that time extended as far south as iceland and green land...so the vikings didnt have emense expanses of open water to cover. they hedge hopped and islands and ice flows. and could have hunted off of them. was a few days before my time

 

[mikewint]

There are at present 9 rune stones which have been found in the US.
In 1898 a Kensington, Minn farmed found a 200 lb slab of rock covered with Nordic runes
The vast majority of experts that have examined the stone declare it to be a hoax.
The Heavener Oklahoma stones: #1 discovered in 1898, varying translations exist such as GNOMEDAL or gnome valley, or possibly G. Nomedal a common Norse name making the huge stone a possible boundry marker. #2 inscribed with non-translatable runes. #3 inscribed with an X, a turkey track, an arrow, and the letters G, R, and T. Lastly the Poteau rune stone discovered in 1967 10 miles SE of the Heavener stone on a straight line along the other 3 stones. This stone is possibly inscribed with: GLOIALLW
The Shawnee, Oklahoma stone found within the city limits in 1969 is inscribed with 5 runes which possibly read MEDOK possibly the name of a welsh prince.
Finally the 3 rune stones discovered in Spirit Pond Maine in 1971. One of which is a crude map of the area.
Most experts consider all of the stones to be hoaxes

 

[Colin1]

belive i saw on discovery or the history channel about how the vikings could have did it. according to this account the polar ice cap at that time extended as far south as iceland and green land...so the vikings didnt have emense expanses of open water to cover. they hedge hopped and islands and ice flows. and could have hunted off of them. was a few days before my time

I read a book
when I was a kid called Vinland the Good. It detailed the expulsion of Erik Thorvaldsson, or Erik the Red, as he was known, from his country for killing someone. He was shipped off to Iceland where Scandinavia seemed to send all of its malcontents. He took his son, Leif, with him.

Apparently, he could see Greenland (or whatever they called it back then) from the highest peak in Iceland and Erik decided he was going to go there. The community that he established there eventually died out but not before Leif went to the Americas.

Apparently there was accord with the locals (native Americans, can't remember which) to begin with but they did fall out and have a seriously massive punch-up; Red Indians vs Vikings - wonder how much Don King would've pulled in for that one..

So yes, in a sense, they did 'hedge-hop' to the Americas but more in a generational sense. That's how I understood it but new stuff could have come to light since then to disprove that.

 

[Lucky13]

AAAANNND IN THE RIGHT CORNER WE HAAAVE.....!!

 

[GrauGeist]

I thought the evidence was a little greater than 'possible'
Didn't some fella called Leif Eriksson make it to the Americas?

There's no doubt that Eriksson did make it to North America, but the evidence that any Vikings made it to Central America lies mainly in the Mayan/Aztec lore, rather than any hard evidence, such as human remains, artifacts, etc.

The possible evidence would lie in the God Quetazlcoatl, who has been seen depicted with blue eyes (turquiose was normally the material used on the diety's mask) and sometimes a red beard. It is also said that he came from the sea riding a serpent.

There have also been many pre-Columbian murals depicting red bearded men wearing armor found throughout Central America as well as tales of two particular Dieties (both were bearded) that taught the Mayans how to write with letters and new building techniques.

Personally, I'd accept that as evidence, but most people want to see a pile of bones or a rusted sword as proof and even then they'd argue about it...

 

[mikewint]

Grau, on must be very careful how one interprets "evidence". plain and simple we lack the cultural experience to interpret some very complex symbolic designs. what will scientists 1000 years from now make of "Kilroy was here" drawings? remember those same stylized drawings were used to prove the "Gods" arrived on spacecraft.

 

[tail end charlie]

belive i saw on discovery or the history channel about how the vikings could have did it. according to this account the polar ice cap at that time extended as far south as iceland and green land...so the vikings didnt have emense expanses of open water to cover. they hedge hopped and islands and ice flows. and could have hunted off of them. was a few days before my time

I have read the same, there are stories about polar bears landing exhausted in the Shetland isles, if that is the case following the ice cap would not have been so difficult. I do believe they would need thermal underwear though and that is a recent invention.

 

[mikewint]

I have no doubts whatsoever that the Vikings could have done many things, either deliberately or by sheer accident. Viking settlements in N America are a fact and there is plenty of evidence they existed but hand-weapons, even steel, against thousands of indians was a no-win situations for the Vikings

 

[bobbysocks]

I have no doubts whatsoever that the Vikings could have done many things, either deliberately or by sheer accident. Viking settlements in N America are a fact and there is plenty of evidence they existed but hand-weapons, even steel, against thousands of indians was a no-win situations for the Vikings

not necessarily mike. again one of those history/discovery channel shows...this time about the spanish in chile. i believe the scene was macho picchu...i am going to have to do some digging on this. but the spanish were in the city and holed up in a building. there was less than 100 of them?? and 100000 angry incas drying to get them. they, the spanish held them off killing thousands of them...due to armor, cross bows, matchlock rifles, and metal weapons. so the vikings could have faired as well. anyways i will try to find the story and actaul info.

got it:

After climbing into the Andes to a height of about 13,500 feet, Pizarro and his small party of conquistadors enter the valley of Cajamarca in November. Atahualpa's army is encamped in bright tents beyond the city. The splendour of the site both Impresses and alarms the intruders. But there is nowhere to go but forward. They enter the town of Cajamarca, unopposed, and then send a small party forward to present themselves to the Inca.

The massacre of Cajamarca: AD 1532

The Spaniards, aware of their extreme vulnerability, are uncertain how to receive the Inca. They take the precaution of concealing their limited forces - cavalry, infantry, artillery - in the arcades around the square. A prearranged signal to attack will be used only if the situation demands it.
When Atahualpa enters Cajamarca, on a magnificent litter carried high by his nobles, the square appears to be empty. With only a narrow entrance, the space fills up slowly with his followers, lightly armed. Then a single Spaniard walks towards the Inca - Pizarro's priest.
The priest solemnly begins explaining to Atahualpa the truth of the Christian religion (a requirement in the Spanish empire, when confronting pagan people, if there is a danger of bloodshed). Atahualpa demands to see the prayer book which the priest is holding. He leafs through it, then flings it to the ground.
The outraged priest turns back, shouting for vengeance. Pizarro gives the prearranged signal for the ambush.

The din of terrifying artillery and gunfire, the onslaught of unfamiliar cavalry and the ferocity of Spaniards in mortal danger, all combine to throw the Indians into desperate panic. Trapped by the narrow entrance to the square, they are defenceless targets for butchery. Reports state that the killing lasts two hours. The Indian dead are numbered in thousands rather than hundreds, with the Spanish horsemen carrying the carnage into the streets and open spaces outside the square.

The only wound suffered by any Spaniard that day is a deep cut on Pizarro's hand, received when he defends Atahualpa from a sword blow. He needs the Inca alive.

 

[RabidAlien]

One of the great things about human nature is our unquenchable desire (as a race) to take a peek over that horizon over there <points in random direction>. Its no surprise to me that we find Viking artifacts, or legends, or even the merest hint halfway around the globe. Another thing about human nature, if you put forth an idea, there will be someone who will inevitably disagree and/or argue with it. If you put forth incontrovertible, incontestable, rock-solid tangible proof....they will just dig their heels in and search for something that disproves your point. Humans.

Personally, I count the Vikings as some of the great travelers and explorers of their time. I also count them as some of the worst record-keepers, thus we do not find maps with "The United States of Erickson" printed these days. Imagine if the Nordic nations could've been solidly united under one king, with more attention paid to the scribe-like trades.

 

[vikingBerserker]

......and mead and wenches and......

 

[JohnAnthony]

 

[bobbysocks]

......and mead and wenches and......

WHERE???

 

[mikewint]

Bobby, steel hand weapons or not a hand-full of Vikings are not and did not prevail over thousands of Indians.
As far as the Spanish conquests of the Aztecs, Incas and Mayans are concerned the Spanish had a number of factors working for them besides just steel hand weapons. When Cortez arrived in 1519:
1. The Aztecs had seen astrological signs the portended the collapse of their empire
2. Cortez landed during their harvest when most men were in the fields and the army was at its weakest
3. After an initial battle with the Tlaxcalans, Aztec rivals, in which his army came near defeat Cortez allied himself with the Tlaxcalans against their mutual enemy the Aztecs.
4. Aztec priests had predicted the return of their God Quetzalcoatl, who was light of hair and skin just like Cortez, thus many of the Indians believed the Spanish to be gods.
5. The Spanish brought smallpox and measles with them. The Indians had no immunity to these European diseases which killed 75% of the Indian population.
6. The Spanish had guns, horses, and mastiffs with them. None of which the Indians had ever seen. In fact, the Indians initially thought the horse and rider were one creature a new god.

As far as the Incas and Pizarro are concerned the Spaniards had the same advantages PLUS:
1. The Incan empire had grown too large to be effectively governed and was in decline
2. All travel and messages could only be sent by foot over large distances and very difficult terrain
3. The emperor had just died of smallpox before he could name his heir thus two of his sons were trying to take his place which put the empire in a state of civil war.
Atahualpa, fresh from beating his half-brother in a major battle was over-confident and contemptuous of the tiny Spanish forces. He entered the city of Cajamarca with only 7,000 unarmed followers planning to overawe the Spanish with his imperial might. Pizarro's men hidden in the city attacked with guns (which the Indians had never seen before), a calvary charge ( Indians had never seen horses before), 3 cannon (Indians had never seen cannon before) and their steel weapons against unarmed Indians. Pizarro lost 5 men to 2,000 Indians but by capturing Atahualpa he left the rest of the Indian army without a leader paralyzing the empire.

By the time the Spanish got around to the Mayans on the Yucatan the Indians had learned their lessons well. It took the Spaniards 170 years to subjugate the Mayans and that only came about after three epidemics of smallpox/measles killed 85-90% of the native population.

 

[Lucky13]

...and still Columbus Day is celibrated!

 

[mikewint]

Lucky, in the US of A we do not discriminate against minorities. By the way old Chris was italian it was spanish money

 

[tail end charlie]

the poor Vikings after several centuries of invading England and Scotland were driven to travel to America purely to find a few women who could cook

 

[mikewint]

TEC, you gots to give them something to cook: BANGERS? KIDNEY PIE? PLUM PUDDING that has no plums or pudding in it?