Carrier operations.....

Lucky13 · Jun 22, 2007

Rich,

Could you please tell me what versions of the Grumman Duck that the Yorktown had beside the J2F-1?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jun 22, 2007

blu3y4 said:
gee it would be fun to be in the middle with a few kamikazees flying at ya.

good times...........................

Kids....

Gnomey · Jun 22, 2007

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Kids....

Just what I thought when I saw that..

Lucky13 · Jun 22, 2007

I wouldn't say that it would be FUN to cought in the middle of a Kamikaze attack, I don't think that those that were there found something amusing about it either, on the contrary.... Good times? Certainly not.

renrich · Jun 22, 2007

Great pictures! Anyone remember the story of the original Essex and the Phoebe and Cherub? Speaking of the F111B, I once knew a retired Navy Captain Jim Swope. He was flying Wildcats when Pearl Harbor happened, had 9.5 or 10 kills in the Pacific and his last job in the Navy was as a project officer on McNamara's Folly, the F111B. Anyone else know him?

blu3y4 · Jun 23, 2007

Lucky13 said:
I wouldn't say that it would be FUN to cought in the middle of a Kamikaze attack, I don't think that those that were there found something amusing about it either, on the contrary.... Good times? Certainly not.

hmm, i figured that, my origional comment may have had some sarcasm in it.

R Leonard · Jun 26, 2007

Lucky13 said:
Could you please tell me what versions of the Grumman Duck that the Yorktown had beside the J2F-1?

A re-check of my records show Yorktown, on 31 Dec 1941, with two J2F-5 and one SOC-1. Also aboard, in VS-5, were two SNJ-3. How long these remained aboard after movement to the Pacific, I don't know.

Rich

Lucky13 · Jun 26, 2007

Thank you Rich... What do you know of the earlier models of the Grumman Duck on the Yorktown like F-1, F-2, etc.?

R Leonard · Jun 26, 2007

renrich said:
Great pictures! Anyone remember the story of the original Essex and the Phoebe and Cherub? Speaking of the F111B, I once knew a retired Navy Captain Jim Swope. He was flying Wildcats when Pearl Harbor happened, had 9.5 or 10 kills in the Pacific and his last job in the Navy was as a project officer on McNamara's Folly, the F111B. Anyone else know him?

I knew Jim Swope. He was a 1st and 2nd tour VF-11 Sun Downer (note my avatar). In the first tour, out of Cactus One on Guadalcanal he flew in the 1st Division on LCDR Clarence White's (the squadron CO) wing. The other two members of the division were George Ricker and Charlie Stimpson. Side numbers on their F4F-4's were white F1, F2, F3, and F4, respectively. My father was the squadron flight officer in that 1st tour and led the 6th division which consisted of himself, Al Jones, Vern Graham, and Bob Gilbert (#'s F21, F22, F23, and F24). Anyway, Swope scored 4.66 in the first tour and 5.0 in the second (in F6Fs off USS Hornet). Swope was seen around our house on occasion when he and Dad were still on active duty.

Regards,

Rich

R Leonard · Jun 26, 2007

Lucky13 said:
Thank you Rich... What do you know of the earlier models of the Grumman Duck on the Yorktown like F-1, F-2, etc.?

Utility aircraft aboard USS Yorktown:
June 1937:
Two J2F-1 and three O3U-3

June 1938:
Two J2F-1 and three O3U-3

June 1939:
Two J2F-2 and three O3U-3
plus one SBC-3 for the CAG and two SBC-3 and two SU-3 as squadron hacks for VF-5

June 1940:
Two O3U-3, two J2F-4, two SOC-2, and one SBC-3
plus one SB2U-3 for the CAG and sq uadron hacks: VB-5, one SBC-3 and VF-5, one SBC-3

Lucky13 · Jun 27, 2007

Thanks Rich, appreciated as always....

trackend · Jun 27, 2007

Interesting images Rich poor old Columbia took a whacking I see according to Wiki that she survived more than one hit and despite heavy casualties even carried on her bombardment duties. All credit to her crew

renrich · Jun 30, 2007

Thank you Rich, I tried to find Swope in Lundstrom, "Guadalcanal Campaign" but he must have been slightly after the period that Lundstom covered in that book. Wish Lundstrom would write another covering the balance of the Guadalcanal campaign. Perhaps you will fill the gap? I knew Swope briefly in the mid eighties in connection to trying to get a microscopic gold recovery operation going in western CO and eastern Utah in the Mancos shale. He seemed very nice and because I was reluctant to pry I did not ask as many questions as I should have about his experiences. I remember he and I went out to the Grand Junction airport one day to see an abandoned stripped F10F and he told me a little of what he knew about that AC. He was not fond of McNamara and his whiz kids.

Cub Driver · Jun 30, 2007

Thanks for the photos. The one of Franklin listing to starboard made me wonder: are all the sailors lined up to port stationed there to (hopefully) prevent its rolling over?

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Mike64 · Jul 1, 2007

Cub Driver said:
Thanks for the photos. The one of Franklin listing to starboard made me wonder: are all the sailors lined up to port stationed there to (hopefully) prevent its rolling over?

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

"Cubby" - good question.

Every Navy ship has an "Abandon Ship" procedure, and everyone is aware of their assigned muster point. It is practiced, usually along with "General Quarters" drills. From a basic mustering point, specifics of exactly how and where an actual Abandon Ship order would be exercised would depend on the situation - the CO would make the ultimate decision based on advice and information from his leadership chain in engineering, operations, navigation, etc.

The counterweight of the personnel on the port side of the Flight Deck would not amount to a hill of beans. They have likely been ordered to break from their specific GQ stations, and sent there for standby assignments - especially to augment firefighting teams, as needed.

The ship has at least some way on - normally, unessential personnel are cleared out from the listing side, in case the deck "digs in". My guess is that there are engineering guys and deck Boatswains to handle lines and coordinate with the (assumed) DD or DE alongside. Apparently they are passing firefighting equipment / other important stuff via "high line" - a contradictory term in this picture - they are at least temporarily sagging into the water.

The ship is VERY unstable in roll response in the pictured condition, and several factors could easily cause her to roll even more to starboard, perhaps even capsize. They would only keep essential personnel on the port side in such conditions.

syscom3 · Jul 1, 2007

I think the reason the USS Franklin was listing was the huge number of gallons of water used in the firefighting efforts, and had yet to drain out.

machine shop tom · Jul 1, 2007

blu3y4 said:
gee it would be fun to be in the middle with a few kamikazees flying at ya.

good times...........................

My dad didn't think it was a whole lot of fun....

tom

machine shop tom · Jul 1, 2007

SlickDriver said:
My question is that several CVs, CVLs, and CVEs were used at various times as aircraft ferries.

Does anybody know how many aircraft they could carry? Norman Friedman's Aircraft Carrier book has a chart with the capacity of planned conversions of liners, but not of the carriers themselves.

Thanks in advance for any information.

Lots of P47s and A20s on the Fanny Bee (CVE 70) in this pic:

http://www.bosamar.com/images/cve/cve70.jpeg

tom

R Leonard · Jul 1, 2007

renrich said:
Thank you Rich, I tried to find Swope in Lundstrom, "Guadalcanal Campaign" but he must have been slightly after the period that Lundstom covered in that book. Wish Lundstrom would write another covering the balance of the Guadalcanal campaign. Perhaps you will fill the gap? I knew Swope briefly in the mid eighties in connection to trying to get a microscopic gold recovery operation going in western CO and eastern Utah in the Mancos shale. He seemed very nice and because I was reluctant to pry I did not ask as many questions as I should have about his experiences. I remember he and I went out to the Grand Junction airport one day to see an abandoned stripped F10F and he told me a little of what he knew about that AC. He was not fond of McNamara and his whiz kids.

Swope wouldn't be in First Team/Guadalcanal as, I believe, John ends it at the traditional end of the campaign in February 43. VF-11 did not get there until mid-April 43 and did most of their mischief to the north, although one of their biggest furballs, in mid June, was between Savo and Knucklehead.

Oddly enough, I've been making one of my periodic forays through the files and found a letter from a third party to my father which mentions, in the course of an update on the whereabouts of various Sun Downers, that Swope was gold mining in Colorado. Letter was dated November 1982. Sound about right?

Rich

Cub Driver · Jul 2, 2007

A friend of mine was in the navy in the 1950s, assigned to an aircraft carrier. Midway through his tour, he realized that it was dangerous up there. From then until his (honorable) discharge, he refused to go on the flight deck. Apparently this was not so unusual that the officers were ready to discipline him for it.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

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