Czechs and Poles, what do you think of the Anti Missile System?

Discussion in 'Modern' started by DerAdlerIstGelandet, Aug 23, 2008.

?

As a Czech or Polish Citizen, are you for the Anti Missile System? Only Czech/Poles!!

  1. Yes, I think it will benefit everyone.

    50.0%
  2. No, I think it is a bad idea that will cause more problems than it is worth.

    50.0%
  1. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    I thought I would start up a thread so that the topic of the anti missile system that is planned for eastern europe can be discussed.

    Why?

    A. This topic comes up quite a bit and hijacks other threads that are about other topics. Now it has its place to be discussed.

    B. It would be neat to hear what the people of these countries think about it.

    Now having said that, anyone can discuss in this thread, but please only vote in the poll if you are from the Czech or Poland.

    Keep this discussion civil! This can be discussed by adults as adults!
     
  2. mkloby

    mkloby Active Member

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    I think this missile system is definitely a good thing. Russia's rhetoric is laughable for its disconnect from reality. They act as if it's an offensive system. Not only that, but Russia has still proven itself a threat to NATO. Also, does Russia not comprehend the overwhelming conventional warfare power the US has?

    I would also very much like to see Ukraine in NATO. In my opinion, the US should focus more on their relationship with Poland and less on some more "traditional" US allies.
     
  3. stasoid

    stasoid Member

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    I was curious too. Why Czechs? What is their interest?
    Russia-Czech relations seemed to be normal since break-up of the USSR. No territorial or major political disputes, no trade-wars etc. Russian tourists were a signifiacant chunck of Czech's tourism revenue. Why piss on Russia? Will Czechs sleep better knowing that russian missiles now targeting their territory?
     
  4. fly boy

    fly boy Member

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    mk one conventional warfare power of the US,MOAB.
     
  5. ccheese

    ccheese Member In Perpetuity
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    What'd he say ?

    Charles
     
  6. mkloby

    mkloby Active Member

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    He's referring to the MOAB - GBU-43 I believe.

    There are many technological advances that would not bode well for anyone engaging the US conventionally.
     
  7. Torch

    Torch Well-Known Member

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    My parents just got back from Poland yesterday. When they get home tonight or tomorrow I will ask my dad what people think(cousins,family etc.)
     
  8. SoD Stitch

    SoD Stitch Banned

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    Okay, first of all, everyone's gotta understand that after we install the system, it is not automatically going to be activated. The system will be built and positioned to intercept missles coming form the south-east, not the east; as of right now, the hardware will be emplaced, but it will not go operational (no software) until a definite threat evolves from a certain Mid-East country (who's name starts with an "I", has an "N" on the end, and has RA in the middle). At this point, the sytem has nothing to be aimed at; HOWEVER, that may change in the very near future. And, as mkloby pointed out, it is a purely defensive system. The Russians claim it can/will be used to neutralize their Strategic Rocket Force, but the system is in the wrong place to intercept ICBM's aimed at the US (that's what BMEWS is for).
     
  9. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    The closest response here came from torch - let's see what some of our Czech and Pole members say....
     
  10. marshall

    marshall Member

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    I don't want to speak for whole Polish society or other Polish forum members but I can say what I think.

    Generally I think it's good that Poland took part in this venture, because I doubt that this system will be ever used and Poland can gain something form this. What exactly the future will show, but I belive that stornger relations with the USA are a good thing, though I also think that Poland should have equally good relations with the EU and USA.

    But I have doubts also, will Poland gain anything? I'm concerned that the situation with the offset for the F-16s can occure once more time. I know that there's still time for realisation of the offset deal but there are problems with it. What I mean is the USA will have same motivation to complete other terms of the deal than only building the system itself?

    Another thing is what if Obama will win? Will the system will be build then? If not what will happen to the deal?

    About the Polish-Russian realations, I think that this relations on high level (governemts) are so bad that it's hard to make them worse, but the relations on low level (between people, companies) are quite good and anti-missle system won't make them worse.
     
  11. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Thanks for chiming in marshall! In situations like this, it is best to hear from the people that it effects the most.
     
  12. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    fly boy you are an idiot! Do you not know how to read! The very first post says that the poll is only for citizens of the Czech Republic and Poland!

    Yet somehow you managed to vote in it too?

    This is what the first posts said:

    Now having said that, anyone can discuss in this thread, but please only vote in the poll if you are from the Czech or Poland.
     
  13. mkloby

    mkloby Active Member

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    As I said above - I'd like see more emphasis put on Poland as an ally, and less on say... France. I remember hearing that Poland was asking for assistance in modernizing their military. I don't know ultimately what had happened with that request, but I'd be behind that move.

    A lot of the older members of my family are 2nd Gen Polish Americans, and they still harbor resentment towards Russians...

    :lol:
     
  14. seesul

    seesul Active Member

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    OK, here´s a private opinion of one Czech boy.
    Most of the people here are against the anti missile radar here. Think there are 3 general reasons:
    1) Fear
    The people think (and I´m sure it´s a fact) that in case of war the radar station would be a target # 1.
    2) Russia
    Russian official statement is that this radar system is not against Iran but is also able to scan Russian territory and that in case of the radar placing here Russia would re-aim their missiles...
    3) Absolutely terrible information campaign of our goverment
    Where there´s no information there´s uncertainty and hesitancy. Few years ago, when there´s was a social democratic party at the power, they started negotations with the USA about the radar and they supported it. Today, when there´s a liberal party at the power and supports the radar, social democrats in the opposition doesn´t agree with it:rolleyes: I´m 100% sure that in case social democrats came back to power, they would support it again...Only dirty political game...
    4) Distrust to expresions of American goverment
    The war in Iraq was declared as the war for the human rights there but mainly as the war agaist a tyran who owns nuclear weapons. No one nuclear weapon was found there. Since that it is hard to recognize where is a truth...

    All in all lack of information is the main reason why a lots of people here doesn´t know what to think about it...but I´m really happy that there´s no public plebiscite regarding this matter here as I´m sure that´s one of the things that have to be decided by specialist and not by experts in the pubs...

    My opinion is- we belong among allies. Should we call for help our friends one day, we have to be a part of common defence system-we gotta invest something.

    So I would vote for radar, but my requirement is to have this radar (and whole anti misilles system) as a part of NATO.

    Only hope we will never need to see it in action. And if so, I hope the result for our country won´t be the same as after Munich´s dictat in 1938 when Great Britain, France and Soviet Union threw us over the board to Hitler...
     
  15. stasoid

    stasoid Member

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    I dont think the USSR was among those who signed the Munich Treaty in 1938. It was actually decided between Great Brirain, France and the Nazi Germany. The Soviets in fact condemned the annexation postfactum. And later, in 1945 it was the Russians who reunited Sudeten Lands with the rest of Czechoslovakia.
    It is strange that you forgotten or just ignored these important facts.
     
  16. fly boy

    fly boy Member

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    charles MOAB is mother of all bombs weighs less then grand slam and more power if somone has a poto of it
     
  17. seesul

    seesul Active Member

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    Yep, you´re right. Soviet Union has nothing to do with Munich´s dictat. My mistake. Italy was the 4th country that signed it.
    Soviets threw us (and not only us) aboard 1 year later- in August ´39 when they signed Molotov-Ribentrop pact.
    And if you speak about ´45- this year in fact started our living behind the iron curtain which I haven´t 4gotten and ignored...one occupation ended up just to allow to start the other occupation...that lasted more than 40 years...
     
  18. syscom3

    syscom3 Pacific Historian

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    I think these missle sites are needlessly provocative to the soviets.

    Dont deploy them and place them in Japan.
     
  19. stasoid

    stasoid Member

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    The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact dividing Poland was signed some 6 months after Czechoslovakia had been completely occupied by Germany where the Soviets hadn't been involved in any way.

    And if you speak about ´45- this year in fact started our living behind the iron curtain which I haven´t 4gotten and ignored...one occupation ended up just to allow to start the other occupation...that lasted more than 40 years

    40 years of living behind the iron curtain must've been a nightmare for your freedoom loving people and I'm really sorry for few of your patriots died in 1968'
    I dont wanna be very cynical here, but... at the end, you got your country independent, safe and sound, all in tact, it gained some territory, population grew, you still speak your language (and it's not German) ...
    Russian tourists are your best customers now...
    I mean, 40 years is nothing in the long term. In 100 years noone will remember what iron curtain or socialist economy was...
     
  20. Ramirezzz

    Ramirezzz Member

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    I too believe that the equalisation of the 50 years of communist rule in Czechoslovakia and German occupation on the other side would be a great exaggeration, despite all oppression occurred.
     
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