**** DONE: 1/48 Hurricane MkI "Willie McKnight" - Defense of Britain/Atlantic.
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Vic Balshaw
Major General
Came out good Andy.
Lovely work so far Andy!
- Thread starter
- #105
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks all. I kinda jumped ahead on the upper surfaces without taking interim pics but post the results here. Truth is, I wanted to use up some old paints that were sitting on my shelf and ended up screwing things up by mistaking some acrylics for enamels and using the wrong thinner in the bottle. I did this to two bottles on two different occasions (PollyScale and Model Master Bottles look almost identical) and ended up chucking out both a Dark Green and a Dark Earth as they were ruined. I did have an almost full bottle of MM Dark Green enamel and ended up using that and, for the Dark Earth, I used an ancient tin of Humbrol Brown N17 which was still good. This stuff must be close to 40 years old!
I started by shooting some Alclad Aluminum in the wing roots and access panels and then hairspraying over that. Then came the Humbrol brown which went on nicely but, when I was done that, I wasn't sure I was going to be happy with the colour. I talked myself into doing the green and then deciding what to do and then proceeded to freehand the Dark Green pattern after chipping away the brown on the wing roots, which went well.
With the green on, I decided to keep the scheme and below is how it turned out. The brown is, arguably, a bit on the yellowy side but I convinced myself that the faded brown suited McKnight's aircraft toward the end of 1940 and into 1941 after having seen a year of service, including the rigours of the Battle of Britain and would have been well worn. Indeed, the few pics of his aircraft show extensive bare metal exposure in the wing roots.
I left the finish quite patchy on purpose and did not take care to get an even finish. The green is a bit on the glossy side but this will even out with a coat of Future. Below are two pics of the exposed aluminum.
The next step is to squirt on some Future and then get some decals going. Thanks for looking in.
I started by shooting some Alclad Aluminum in the wing roots and access panels and then hairspraying over that. Then came the Humbrol brown which went on nicely but, when I was done that, I wasn't sure I was going to be happy with the colour. I talked myself into doing the green and then deciding what to do and then proceeded to freehand the Dark Green pattern after chipping away the brown on the wing roots, which went well.
With the green on, I decided to keep the scheme and below is how it turned out. The brown is, arguably, a bit on the yellowy side but I convinced myself that the faded brown suited McKnight's aircraft toward the end of 1940 and into 1941 after having seen a year of service, including the rigours of the Battle of Britain and would have been well worn. Indeed, the few pics of his aircraft show extensive bare metal exposure in the wing roots.
I left the finish quite patchy on purpose and did not take care to get an even finish. The green is a bit on the glossy side but this will even out with a coat of Future. Below are two pics of the exposed aluminum.
The next step is to squirt on some Future and then get some decals going. Thanks for looking in.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
It's looking good Andy.
- Thread starter
- #107
Crimea_River
Marshal
What's your honest opinion of the colours?
fubar57
General
I've been through my books and on the web and half look like yours and the others look darker but one has to take in film type. I've got Tamiya XF-52 which they say is a match but I think its too light though darker than yours. I've also got Vallejo which I think is too dark. This is a color chip from Urban's Color Reference charts...
...however, if you are going for a weathered look, I think it's OK as the green is lighter as well. Just me talking, of course.
Geo
...however, if you are going for a weathered look, I think it's OK as the green is lighter as well. Just me talking, of course.
Geo
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
At the moment, the 'Dark Earth' looks a tad light, but only a tad, and as you mentioned, a bit yellowish. However, this is in line with a faded, weathered example, and I think that once it's had a gloss coat, and then the matt finishing coat, both of which will very slightly darken the shade, it should look fine, especially with the decals on to break up the overall effect.
The colour chip Geo posted looks very dark to me, even allowing for monitor quality and transferring the chip to an electronic, digital image. In the past, I've sometimes lightened Humbrol No.29 Dark Earth to suit, as it has sometimes appeared too dark once the clear coats have been applied, something which is even more noticeable with Xtracolor enamel, and I believe both of these paints are closer to the full-scale shade - slightly too dark for a model from 1/32nd scale down.
Compare your model with the pic of the BBMF Hurricane, taken in full, strong sunlight, and relatively new paint (this year), kept spotless by the 'Flight.
The colour chip Geo posted looks very dark to me, even allowing for monitor quality and transferring the chip to an electronic, digital image. In the past, I've sometimes lightened Humbrol No.29 Dark Earth to suit, as it has sometimes appeared too dark once the clear coats have been applied, something which is even more noticeable with Xtracolor enamel, and I believe both of these paints are closer to the full-scale shade - slightly too dark for a model from 1/32nd scale down.
Compare your model with the pic of the BBMF Hurricane, taken in full, strong sunlight, and relatively new paint (this year), kept spotless by the 'Flight.
Attachments
'Brown' looks a tad yellowish to me too, but Terry makes a good case for leaving it as is...
JKim
Senior Master Sergeant
Looks great Andy! I love the chipping at the wing roots!
- Thread starter
- #112
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks all, I may yet do something with it to lessen the yellow effect during the final weathering stage but will defer that decision until then. The pictures do make the brown look more orange than in real life so it's not quite as bad as it looks. In the meantime, a several gloss coats of Future have been sprayed on and allowed to cure:
And now, there is a bit of a conundrum I could use some expert help with. Pictures of McKnight's aircraft are limited to those seen in my first posts on page 1. My issue is that the starboard side of the aircraft is not well documented and there is an inconsistency that I need to deal with. The picture showing McKnight standing next to his starboard wing root clearly shows the letter A behind him, confirming that the letter sequence, reading left to right, at the time the photo was taken was LEoA on this side of the aircraft. I don't know when the picture was taken - the skeletons were present during the BoB and before the 18" Sky band was introduced in the fall of 1940. My problem is that if I try to position the letters "LE" between the standard roundel location and the Sky band, they won't fit without overlapping something. So, I see 3 options:
1) The Italeri instructions show the letter sequence with the Sky band present to be AoLE and not LEoA. I have not seen any photos of 242 squadron aircraft with the band from the starboard side to support the notion of the sequence having been flipped from that seen in the photo I mentioned above.
2) Leave the sequence as LEoA and squeeze the E into the roundel as shown in this after-market decal instruction sheet:
3) Overlap the L onto the Sky band.
Does anyone have a 242 Squadron photo taken on the starboard side with the Sky band present or, failing that, which of the above options is most likely correct? I appreciate any insight here guys.
And now, there is a bit of a conundrum I could use some expert help with. Pictures of McKnight's aircraft are limited to those seen in my first posts on page 1. My issue is that the starboard side of the aircraft is not well documented and there is an inconsistency that I need to deal with. The picture showing McKnight standing next to his starboard wing root clearly shows the letter A behind him, confirming that the letter sequence, reading left to right, at the time the photo was taken was LEoA on this side of the aircraft. I don't know when the picture was taken - the skeletons were present during the BoB and before the 18" Sky band was introduced in the fall of 1940. My problem is that if I try to position the letters "LE" between the standard roundel location and the Sky band, they won't fit without overlapping something. So, I see 3 options:
1) The Italeri instructions show the letter sequence with the Sky band present to be AoLE and not LEoA. I have not seen any photos of 242 squadron aircraft with the band from the starboard side to support the notion of the sequence having been flipped from that seen in the photo I mentioned above.
2) Leave the sequence as LEoA and squeeze the E into the roundel as shown in this after-market decal instruction sheet:
3) Overlap the L onto the Sky band.
Does anyone have a 242 Squadron photo taken on the starboard side with the Sky band present or, failing that, which of the above options is most likely correct? I appreciate any insight here guys.
fubar57
General
Hoping it won't be too late, this will be the first thing I check when I get home Tuesday night.
Geo
Geo
T Bolt
Colonel
Looking real nice with the future on Andy
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I'll have a look for photos Andy, and I think I've got a starboard side shot, though probably not this aircraft.
The Directive for codes states that the Squadron code should be forward of the roundel, but as we know, this was not always the case, and, in those instances where the larger code letters were used, overlapping of the roundel was not uncommon.
The Directive for codes states that the Squadron code should be forward of the roundel, but as we know, this was not always the case, and, in those instances where the larger code letters were used, overlapping of the roundel was not uncommon.
You might have tried this option already, but if no one is able to help with positive photographic evidence, you could always Google 242 Sqn Hurricane and take a look at the options that others have taken building the same aircraft. There are quite a few images of it on the net. You could also try Britmodeller, as that site has a forum thread on Hurricane questions, so worth popping on and asking; someone might be able to help.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
- Thread starter
- #119
Crimea_River
Marshal
Yes, that's the pic I referred to when I said "The picture showing McKnight standing next to his starboard wing root clearly shows the letter A behind him, confirming that the letter sequence, reading left to right, at the time the photo was taken was LEoA on this side of the aircraft". Unfortunatley, this photo is undated and could have been taken before the Sky bands were painted on. Though I doubt whether they would have flipped the sequence after that event, the photo does not disprove the possibility.
Grant, I use Google for this kind of stuff profusely and, yes, have seen many others' models but I tend not to rely on what others have done unless I know their work.
I've since determined that the profile I posted above (which I got from my Google search!) in fact comes from an Aviaeology decal sheet. Terry Higgins, who is the brains behind those well-researched and excellent decal sets, is helping me on our Hurricane restoration project and has a wealth of knowledge on markings. That alone makes me pretty confident that the profile showing the E running into the roundel has a good chance of being correct but I will ask him anyway. Though difficult to read, the note in red says "With the exception of the R/H 'A', code and serial placements are best guesses based on photos of other squadron aircraft at the time."
Grant, I use Google for this kind of stuff profusely and, yes, have seen many others' models but I tend not to rely on what others have done unless I know their work.
I've since determined that the profile I posted above (which I got from my Google search!) in fact comes from an Aviaeology decal sheet. Terry Higgins, who is the brains behind those well-researched and excellent decal sets, is helping me on our Hurricane restoration project and has a wealth of knowledge on markings. That alone makes me pretty confident that the profile showing the E running into the roundel has a good chance of being correct but I will ask him anyway. Though difficult to read, the note in red says "With the exception of the R/H 'A', code and serial placements are best guesses based on photos of other squadron aircraft at the time."
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Andy, the Sky band and spinner were simply additions - the airborne formation shots I mentioned all show the codes reading 'LE-*', as do those on most other Squadrons, regardless of letter size. Unfortunately, it's not possible to determine if the 'E' overlaps the roundel, but given the size of the code letters, it's most likely that they did.
In addition, all the aviation art I've seen of this Squadron's aircraft, by very reputable artists/historians, all show the 'LE-*' arrangement on the starboard side.
In addition, all the aviation art I've seen of this Squadron's aircraft, by very reputable artists/historians, all show the 'LE-*' arrangement on the starboard side.
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