**** DONE: GB-36 1/48 Bf110D - Axis Manufactured Aircraft of WWII
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- #142
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Been rather busy with domestic cr@p most of the day, so no further progress yet. Hoping to get the sanding done, and maybe the primer, later tonight.
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- #143
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Well. I got the sanding done, and a thin primer coat sprayed, but not without a couple of mini disasters along the way !
The first happened when I was cleaning my medium-tip airbrush, when I slipped, and damaged the tip and the trigger - so I've ordered a new one !
The second was potentially more serious.
When moving the model after spraying the primer, one of those darned poorly locating ailerons came adrift !
I was left holding an aileron between fingers and thumb, whilst the model nose dived onto a hard floor - I'd lightly gripped the model by the wing leading edge, and part of the trailing edge and the inboard end of the aileron.
Fortunately, the damage is not too bad, as it hit nose first, breaking the joint around the upper gun cover and scratching the paint, and also knocking the tail planes slightly out of true. Hopefully, these areas can be repaired without too much hassle, although I'm not yet sure if I have been reported for extremely loud foul language, which must have been audible across most of the north west of England !!.
PIC 1. The Milliput 'skirt' at the front of the belly tank has been sanded, and given a brushed coat of primer to check the surface, as have the wing root joints. Some rivet detail was also added.
PICS 2 and 3. All openings were masked, including the slots for the exhausts, with the nav lamps and the edge of the tape on the cockpit sealed with PVA, and the model was then cleaned. The cannon ports were also sealed, as they are open inside ( a strange omission by Eduard, considering the small detail parts in the kit, and something I should have addressed), and spray 'mist' could possibly drift up into the cockpit.
PICS 4 and 5. The model sprayed with a thin primer coat. The underside is rather patchy, as it was at this point where I cleaned the airbrush before preparing to refill the cup to complete spraying, at which point I damaged the brush.
PIC 6. The damage to the nose - hopefully it will repair easily.
I'll do a test spray with my other airbrush, but as this is fine-tipped, I think it might be the wrong choice for an even finish with large areas of single colours. As the colour scheme is fairly simple, with large areas of the two greens, and overall RLM 65 underneath, I might consider brush-painting, using the Xtracolor gloss enamels, which normally brush quite well. I'll decide tomorrow (er.... later today !)
The first happened when I was cleaning my medium-tip airbrush, when I slipped, and damaged the tip and the trigger - so I've ordered a new one !
The second was potentially more serious.
When moving the model after spraying the primer, one of those darned poorly locating ailerons came adrift !
I was left holding an aileron between fingers and thumb, whilst the model nose dived onto a hard floor - I'd lightly gripped the model by the wing leading edge, and part of the trailing edge and the inboard end of the aileron.
Fortunately, the damage is not too bad, as it hit nose first, breaking the joint around the upper gun cover and scratching the paint, and also knocking the tail planes slightly out of true. Hopefully, these areas can be repaired without too much hassle, although I'm not yet sure if I have been reported for extremely loud foul language, which must have been audible across most of the north west of England !!.
PIC 1. The Milliput 'skirt' at the front of the belly tank has been sanded, and given a brushed coat of primer to check the surface, as have the wing root joints. Some rivet detail was also added.
PICS 2 and 3. All openings were masked, including the slots for the exhausts, with the nav lamps and the edge of the tape on the cockpit sealed with PVA, and the model was then cleaned. The cannon ports were also sealed, as they are open inside ( a strange omission by Eduard, considering the small detail parts in the kit, and something I should have addressed), and spray 'mist' could possibly drift up into the cockpit.
PICS 4 and 5. The model sprayed with a thin primer coat. The underside is rather patchy, as it was at this point where I cleaned the airbrush before preparing to refill the cup to complete spraying, at which point I damaged the brush.
PIC 6. The damage to the nose - hopefully it will repair easily.
I'll do a test spray with my other airbrush, but as this is fine-tipped, I think it might be the wrong choice for an even finish with large areas of single colours. As the colour scheme is fairly simple, with large areas of the two greens, and overall RLM 65 underneath, I might consider brush-painting, using the Xtracolor gloss enamels, which normally brush quite well. I'll decide tomorrow (er.... later today !)
turbo
Staff Sergeant
Man, bummer Terry! ](/forum/images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall ](*,)")
I've done that before with a finished Eduard 109 model that has the wing tips as separate parts. I'd forgotten about that and was holding it by the wing tip when the rest of the airframe decided to depart. Just about everything that could break off did when it hit the floor. I think one of the neighbours called the cops because they thought I was having a domestic dispute...
I've done that before with a finished Eduard 109 model that has the wing tips as separate parts. I'd forgotten about that and was holding it by the wing tip when the rest of the airframe decided to depart. Just about everything that could break off did when it hit the floor. I think one of the neighbours called the cops because they thought I was having a domestic dispute...
Crimea_River
Marshal
Too bad about the setbacks Terry but nothing you can't handle.
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- #146
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Yeah, I'll get there, eventually, but it's really p*ssed me off !
I've stayed up (very) late to check out the paints.
I have the Model Master colours, but I don't really want to use them on this model, as the area to be covered will use up a lot of paint - and some MM colours I just can't find in the UK.
I've done a trial with the Xtracolor (gloss enamel) RLM 65, which seems to have gone on smoothly enough, with a paint brush. But I'm quite dubious about the shade - it looks more towards RLM 76, but slightly 'greener' !
However, that might be the lighting, so I'll check it in daylight. I do understand the RLM 65 did have a slight grey tinge but, comparing it to the MM paint, there's a heck of a difference, and even the MM version of RLM 65 looks rather pale, compared to what we are used to seeing in good quality colour pics, or accurately restored Luftwaffe aircraft.
Either way, i think I'm going to await the arrival of the replacement airbrush, and I might mix my own colours (saving the MM paints for the eight Bf109s to be done !), as I'm also dubious as to the spraying qualities of the Xtracolor paints, which smell suspiciously like cellulose to me - certainly a different smell, and viscosity, to those Xtracolor paints I've used in years past.
Anyway, I'm now knackered, so i'm going to get some kip !!
I've stayed up (very) late to check out the paints.
I have the Model Master colours, but I don't really want to use them on this model, as the area to be covered will use up a lot of paint - and some MM colours I just can't find in the UK.
I've done a trial with the Xtracolor (gloss enamel) RLM 65, which seems to have gone on smoothly enough, with a paint brush. But I'm quite dubious about the shade - it looks more towards RLM 76, but slightly 'greener' !
However, that might be the lighting, so I'll check it in daylight. I do understand the RLM 65 did have a slight grey tinge but, comparing it to the MM paint, there's a heck of a difference, and even the MM version of RLM 65 looks rather pale, compared to what we are used to seeing in good quality colour pics, or accurately restored Luftwaffe aircraft.
Either way, i think I'm going to await the arrival of the replacement airbrush, and I might mix my own colours (saving the MM paints for the eight Bf109s to be done !), as I'm also dubious as to the spraying qualities of the Xtracolor paints, which smell suspiciously like cellulose to me - certainly a different smell, and viscosity, to those Xtracolor paints I've used in years past.
Anyway, I'm now knackered, so i'm going to get some kip !!
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- #148
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Thanks my friend. I'm aiming to get that fixed later today, and the 'accident' might have actually improved things, as it looks like it's now going to 'sit' better, making a neater joint.
As for the paint, I'm going to wait until the replacement airbrush arrives, which might be by the weekend, or by Tuesday latest. I tried out the fine tip 'brush, but as I thought, this will struggle to cover large areas evenly, and would take a lot of effort. Having looked at the brushed-on Xtracolor paint, I've decided to go with my own mixes, using matt enamels. The Xtracolor RLM 65 doesn't look too bad now that it's on the model, although more towards a 'full size' shade, so needs adjusting, but, having been carefully brushed, there are a few small brush marks that just might show up, even after the matt clear coat.
Meanwhile, I'll get on with cleaning up, painting and assembling the undercart, and tackling the tedious masking on the canopy sections.
As for the paint, I'm going to wait until the replacement airbrush arrives, which might be by the weekend, or by Tuesday latest. I tried out the fine tip 'brush, but as I thought, this will struggle to cover large areas evenly, and would take a lot of effort. Having looked at the brushed-on Xtracolor paint, I've decided to go with my own mixes, using matt enamels. The Xtracolor RLM 65 doesn't look too bad now that it's on the model, although more towards a 'full size' shade, so needs adjusting, but, having been carefully brushed, there are a few small brush marks that just might show up, even after the matt clear coat.
Meanwhile, I'll get on with cleaning up, painting and assembling the undercart, and tackling the tedious masking on the canopy sections.
Looks great so far Terry!
JKim
Senior Master Sergeant
Breaking a piece that has been puttied into place is always a bummer. I know it is a hassle but at least the seams are in a fairly easy area to address.
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- #152
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Thanks Hugh.
Nothing much to show just yet - been slowly getting to grips with masking the canopies, and only cursed 21 times so far !
I've also been looking at paint options, and think I've come up with a workable solution.
The Xtracolor gloss enamels I have look rather dark to me, more in keeping with 'full size colours', rather than the slightly lighter shades required for 1/48th scale. These could be lightened of course, and have the advantage of being 'decal ready', being gloss. However, I'm wary about spraying them, as they certainly smell different to those I've used in years gone by, more like cellulose, and I'm remembering how the Xtracolor PRU Blue really clogged the airbrush when spraying the PR Mosquito, and turned milky when thinned further.
So I checked the Model Master paints that Andy very kindly provided, and I was somewhat puzzled by the shades.
The RLM 65 from MM is usable, although perhaps a tad on the light side, but when I checked the RLM 71, it turned out to be an almost exact match to RLM 02 - perhaps the wrong label ?
I checked the shade of RLM 02 from an old (late 1970s) Humbrol Authentic Colours tin, which matches known RLM paint chips, and is virtually an exact match for the current Humbrol 31 Slate Grey, and the MM RLM 71 is almost identical !
(Bear in mind that this is the RLM 02 used as a camouflage colour - regardless of what some may think, "RLM 02" as an interior finish is definitely lighter !)
So, having checked through my paint stocks, I found Humbrol 105 Marine Green to be close enough to RLM 71 for this scale and, with black added, it can also be mixed as RLM 70, although I'll need to get another tin, as mine is getting low.
I also have some Humbrol No.65 Aircraft Blue, which is close enough to RLM 65, and probably was RLM 65 under the old 'Authentic Colour' title.
So, when the new airbrush arrives, I hope to get the painting done. meanwhile, it;s back to cutting bits of Tamiya masking tape ...........
Nothing much to show just yet - been slowly getting to grips with masking the canopies, and only cursed 21 times so far !
I've also been looking at paint options, and think I've come up with a workable solution.
The Xtracolor gloss enamels I have look rather dark to me, more in keeping with 'full size colours', rather than the slightly lighter shades required for 1/48th scale. These could be lightened of course, and have the advantage of being 'decal ready', being gloss. However, I'm wary about spraying them, as they certainly smell different to those I've used in years gone by, more like cellulose, and I'm remembering how the Xtracolor PRU Blue really clogged the airbrush when spraying the PR Mosquito, and turned milky when thinned further.
So I checked the Model Master paints that Andy very kindly provided, and I was somewhat puzzled by the shades.
The RLM 65 from MM is usable, although perhaps a tad on the light side, but when I checked the RLM 71, it turned out to be an almost exact match to RLM 02 - perhaps the wrong label ?
I checked the shade of RLM 02 from an old (late 1970s) Humbrol Authentic Colours tin, which matches known RLM paint chips, and is virtually an exact match for the current Humbrol 31 Slate Grey, and the MM RLM 71 is almost identical !
(Bear in mind that this is the RLM 02 used as a camouflage colour - regardless of what some may think, "RLM 02" as an interior finish is definitely lighter !)
So, having checked through my paint stocks, I found Humbrol 105 Marine Green to be close enough to RLM 71 for this scale and, with black added, it can also be mixed as RLM 70, although I'll need to get another tin, as mine is getting low.
I also have some Humbrol No.65 Aircraft Blue, which is close enough to RLM 65, and probably was RLM 65 under the old 'Authentic Colour' title.
So, when the new airbrush arrives, I hope to get the painting done. meanwhile, it;s back to cutting bits of Tamiya masking tape ...........
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- #153
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Thankfully John, it should be fairly easy to repair. What I hadn't noticed is the joint on the underside of the fuselage has obviously been stressed due to the impact, as this is now feintly visible. However, if the '110 was assembled in the same way as the '109, with a joined fuselage, then this will be acceptable.
Crimea_River
Marshal
Sorry to hear about the odd colour Terry. I must admit that I did not use those shades but I assumed that they would be OK based on my experience with MM's 74/75/76 which I thought looked good. Well, I guess you have some extra 02 now.
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- #155
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
No problem Andy, not your fault. The RLM 70 looks rather strange too, sort of in between a green, and RLM 66 - definitely got a bluish grey tinge to it !
Whilst on the subject, I'd be interested to hear opinions regarding RLM 02.
This has traditionally been described as a greenish grey (not far off slate grey) and, when seen on WW2 period photos, B&W or original colour, the tones in B&W and the shade in colour pics, would support this.
However, when looking at paints from various manufacturers, the RLM 02 always looks much lighter, more of a beige grey green, closer to the colour used on interiors.
I will continue to use the 'traditional' shade for camouflage finishes, but for interiors, I mix it to a much lighter shade, more towards a light grey with a hint of green. Studying photos of original aircraft, still with their original interior colours, including wheel bays, and undercarriage legs, suggests the use of a lighter shade, and also a definite light grey - not to be confused with the effects of flash photography on known 'light' RLM 02 - which is very definitely lighter than the camouflage shade.
Thoughts ?
Whilst on the subject, I'd be interested to hear opinions regarding RLM 02.
This has traditionally been described as a greenish grey (not far off slate grey) and, when seen on WW2 period photos, B&W or original colour, the tones in B&W and the shade in colour pics, would support this.
However, when looking at paints from various manufacturers, the RLM 02 always looks much lighter, more of a beige grey green, closer to the colour used on interiors.
I will continue to use the 'traditional' shade for camouflage finishes, but for interiors, I mix it to a much lighter shade, more towards a light grey with a hint of green. Studying photos of original aircraft, still with their original interior colours, including wheel bays, and undercarriage legs, suggests the use of a lighter shade, and also a definite light grey - not to be confused with the effects of flash photography on known 'light' RLM 02 - which is very definitely lighter than the camouflage shade.
Thoughts ?
Crimea_River
Marshal
I'm not aware of a difference between "camouflage 02" and "interior 02". Any differences could have been the result of variances in batches and climatic effects over time.
I agree that there are large variations between model paint manufacturers and some tend to be quite light. On the whole though, I do agree that there is a green tinge to the grey. FWIW, below is a picture I just took in sunlight of paint chips offered up by Merrick (top) and Ulmann (bottom). Both are noticeably green in tone in my opinion.
I agree that there are large variations between model paint manufacturers and some tend to be quite light. On the whole though, I do agree that there is a green tinge to the grey. FWIW, below is a picture I just took in sunlight of paint chips offered up by Merrick (top) and Ulmann (bottom). Both are noticeably green in tone in my opinion.
T Bolt
Colonel
I always thought the MM RLM 02 looked pretty good and use it for both interior and exterior.
Too bad about the damage Terry, it's happened to me too, most recently with my mostly completed Stirling. Was taking a look at it thinking about finishing it when it slipped and took a nose dive breaking the bomb aimers glass.
Too bad about the damage Terry, it's happened to me too, most recently with my mostly completed Stirling. Was taking a look at it thinking about finishing it when it slipped and took a nose dive breaking the bomb aimers glass.
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- #158
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Andy, both of those are more or less what I expect to see for RLM 02. However, the interior colour is definitely lighter on such types as the Bf110 and He-111, with the latter possibly also using a light grey in some areas, and undercarriage legs, supposedly 02, always look lighter.
I've been looking for an old reference, which quotes a primer colour used on interiors, with greyish green tinge, which, from memory, might have had an '02' code, with this reference mentioning that it shouldn't be confused with 'RLM 02', but so far, I can't locate it.
Anyway, I'm happy to report that the nose damage and broken-off aileron have been repaired, and sanded since the photo below was taken, and the RLM 65 has been successfully sprayed on the underside, and on the large drop tanks,
I had a go with my finer tipped airbrush (0.20 mm), which worked OK, but took a long time due to the finer line.
If the other airbrush arrives tomorrow, I hope to find some time over a rather busy weekend, to get the RLM 71 sprayed.
PIC 1. Nose repaired. Note the shade of the Xtracolor RLM 65 on the underside, since over-sprayed with Humbrol 65.
PICS 2 and 3. Underside and drop tanks sprayed, the latter having had the joints eliminated, and the detail re-engraved, along with filler caps, engraved using a compass point in a pin vise. Paint used was Humbrol 65 Aircraft Blue, which, although it isn't quite as 'grey blue' as real RLM 65, provides a better tone in this scale.
All being well, I'll post another up-date over the weekend.
I've been looking for an old reference, which quotes a primer colour used on interiors, with greyish green tinge, which, from memory, might have had an '02' code, with this reference mentioning that it shouldn't be confused with 'RLM 02', but so far, I can't locate it.
Anyway, I'm happy to report that the nose damage and broken-off aileron have been repaired, and sanded since the photo below was taken, and the RLM 65 has been successfully sprayed on the underside, and on the large drop tanks,
I had a go with my finer tipped airbrush (0.20 mm), which worked OK, but took a long time due to the finer line.
If the other airbrush arrives tomorrow, I hope to find some time over a rather busy weekend, to get the RLM 71 sprayed.
PIC 1. Nose repaired. Note the shade of the Xtracolor RLM 65 on the underside, since over-sprayed with Humbrol 65.
PICS 2 and 3. Underside and drop tanks sprayed, the latter having had the joints eliminated, and the detail re-engraved, along with filler caps, engraved using a compass point in a pin vise. Paint used was Humbrol 65 Aircraft Blue, which, although it isn't quite as 'grey blue' as real RLM 65, provides a better tone in this scale.
All being well, I'll post another up-date over the weekend.
fubar57
General
5 pages of catch-up. Looking good despite the set-backs Terry
mikewint
Captain
Terry, been so busy fiddling with the Condor have not looked at anyone else work. As always looking really nice.
As to color as I have posted before unless you have certified color samples and a calibrated spectrophotometer anything else is personal opinion. The color in photographs depends upon the lighting used to make the photo, the photochemical sensitivity of the film emulsion, the developing process and the papers photochemical response THEN you are looking at these photos via electronic cameras which have their own color response and then the computer monitor's electronic color rendering through its LED components.
Looking at my Condor the front cockpit is RLM 66 and the rest is 02 for which I use Tamiya's XF-22 which they name simply RLM GREY yet when I look at my photos the color I see in the monitor looks nothing like the color of the model.
Even if I look at a Model Master actual paint and you look at your Model Master jar they may not match as they may be from different batches, age, or varied storage conditions.
IMHO color discussions are opinions and moot.
As to color as I have posted before unless you have certified color samples and a calibrated spectrophotometer anything else is personal opinion. The color in photographs depends upon the lighting used to make the photo, the photochemical sensitivity of the film emulsion, the developing process and the papers photochemical response THEN you are looking at these photos via electronic cameras which have their own color response and then the computer monitor's electronic color rendering through its LED components.
Looking at my Condor the front cockpit is RLM 66 and the rest is 02 for which I use Tamiya's XF-22 which they name simply RLM GREY yet when I look at my photos the color I see in the monitor looks nothing like the color of the model.
Even if I look at a Model Master actual paint and you look at your Model Master jar they may not match as they may be from different batches, age, or varied storage conditions.
IMHO color discussions are opinions and moot.
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