**** DONE: GB-36 1/72 BF 109E-4 - Axis Manufactured Aircraft of WWII

[turbo]

Looking good there Michael. I normally decal and seal them with a varnish coat before embarking on post-painting weathering steps. That way the decals are incorporated into the weathering rather than standing out like dogs' danglies. You also don't want to attenuate your weathering with the varnish coats that will be required for decal application and sealing.

For a 109, I would usually have the windscreen part of the canopy attached by now as I like to blend everything as much as possible, but if you are posing the main canopy open don't attach that until the very end or you will inevitably break it off during handling!

 

[Airframes]

It's looking good Michael.
Just noticed the white wing tips. The white (and yellow, when used) I.D. paint was normally painted in a wider band, in most cases the inner edge being at the line of the first panel joint inboard of the wing tip, or just slightly outboard of this panel joint.
See pic of my model, below.

 

[parsifal]

I noticed that some time ago terry, plus also the RLM 65 on your 109 extends a lot further up the sides especially in the dorsal area than is the case for my build. At this point I don't know if there are differences in the two kites or you or I (should read that as me) have made an error. I will check back on the images in this thread and give further comment then.

Edit

first issue is the extent of the darker bands on the upper surfaces. I cant really make any comment about your subject terry, but for mine, I am confident my interpretation of the fuselage bands is reasonably accurate, though I concede that in the area forward of the cockpit and aft the cowl I might have extended the dark colours too far down the sides by quite a bit.

The attached grab is from a photo posted by Wurger earlier in this thread.

The dorsal area is clearly visible here. Leads me to think von Werras aircraft was painted differently to the kite you have replicated.

more to follow about the wingtip flashes.......

Here are the airfix painting instructions that I have been using. Are they wrong? Its not a big deal to extend the flashes if required.

straight away I can see that the top deck colours forward of the cockpit are extending too far down the sides. In real life maybe about 1.5mm. I don't know whether to leave it or not now....

 

[parsifal]

John (JKim ) has also done a 1/48 version of Von Werras aircraft

**** DONE: 1/48 Bf 109E-4 Von Werra - Defense of Britain/Atlantic.

Straight away I can see where that nose darker colouring should extend to

Johns rendition also confirms the width of the wingtip flashes

not sure about leaving the forward slats without the white flashes, Not sure why john would think that was the case.

looks like I'm not done after all. In the words of my mentor.... "B*gger!!!!"

 

[Airframes]

Yes, your model is correct on the demarcation of the fuselage colours. When the original colour scheme was modified, in the winter of 1939 - 1940, the demarcation was as per your subject. This was later raised to a higher point, as shown on my subject, and confirmed by photos of the actual aircraft.
This is not to say that all Bf109E's were the same - there were many variations during the course of 1940, and more so later in the year, when new colours started to be introduced.
With regard to the wing tip colours, other aircraft of JG 3 show the width as I described, but again, there were variations. There isn't a clear photo showing the wing tips of von Werra's aircraft with the white panels, but there is an overhead photo showing the port tail-plane, with the white band. This appears to be slightly narrower than the 'standard' width, as shown on my model, and is relevant to what I described as 'outboard of the first panel joint' on the main wing.
In 1/72nd scale, I'd estimate that the inner edge of the white band on the tail-planes was approximately 7mm from the tip of each tail-plane, and the inner edge on the main wings would be 10mm from the wing tip. This roughly corresponds to how I described the bands sometimes being 'slightly narrower'.
I think that somewhere, I might have the actual measurements as laid down at the time, and it may well be that the measurements for your subject are the 'official' ones, but of course, it's easily understandable that ground crews would take their 'line' from an easily recognisable and useful feature, in this case the wing panel joint, especially as the difference in dimensions was so little.

 

[Airframes]

Crossing posts - note that the slats are not yet fitted to John's model, hence the lack of white paint.
If you decide to re-paint the wing tips, it should be an easy matter to mask the wing, and just repaint the required ares, with a light 'blow over' of the existing white to even things out.

 

[parsifal]

Yeah thanks Terry. Looking again at johns entry, and then comparing that to Wurgers period shot, I actually don't think John is correct either. His RLM02 line is placed just under those vent thingys, whereas Wurgers period photo shows the line further down the side more similar to where ive got ti. The mistake that I have is further aft, nearer the cockpit, and I think the error arises because I have the dark tones extending too far below the cockpit sides.

 

[parsifal]

Okay this should utterly confuse the situation with regard to those wingtip flashes

These images suggest a thinner, white flash, a link for where I found this is here...
Franz von Werra's Me 109 | King & Country

Safe to say I'm unsure what to think now......this is doing my head in.....

 

[Wurger]

Here is a rendition of the Eduard.. I would say there is a couple of mistakes as well but regarding the white wing tips might be correct. So these should be extended from the wing tip to the edge of the aileron trim tabs on each wing. Therefore both models , I mean John's one and the one posted above are correct because the white covers the wing tips properly up to the aileron trim tabs. The effect of the different width of the white areas seems to be the result of the scale of the models or a difference in location of the trim tabs for the models...The second option is very likely becuase IMHO most of Bf 109E models ( including the Eduard one ) seems to have the detail moulded at the incorrect location.

BTW.. The Airfix instruction suggests the same width of the white flashes . I mean the area from the wing tip to the trim tab.

 

[parsifal]

Thanks wurger, and as always you think things through in a very calm and measured way. I think for me the eduard rendition settles it. I'm not certain but it seems there are more opinions in favour of a wider wingtip flash than against it.....

 

[Wurger]

As I had mentioned it. The main problem is the location of the aileron trim tab. According to all pics and drawings the one was attached between the second and the third aerofoil of the aileron counting from the wing tip. Here is the drawing.. please note the "f".

If you have a look a the Eduard model you will find that the trim tab is moved towards the fourth aerofoil of the aileron. Contrary to that the Hasegawa model has that detail moulded at the correct location.

Here are a shot I found with such painted wing tips... this is for the yellow colour but mostly the painted area was of the same width while painted with the white. The enlarged pic reveals that the painted area was from the wing tip to the edge of the aileron trim tab.

 

[parsifal]

Excellent work wotjek. I can see far more clearly now

 

[Wurger]

My pleasure Michael. Here is another shot I found via the net. Although we can't see the trim tab the painted area may seem to be a litttle bit larger than the yellow one in the pic above.

 

[parsifal]

I agree. Just generally, its pretty compelling now that the wider bands are the way to go

 

[Airframes]

Good stuff Wojtek, and agrees with what I meant by a 'slightly narrower' band.
That die-cast model is incorrect in a number of areas, apart from the wing tip bands - it also has the white cowling and the mottled saddle cowling which, I'll admit, for some time I thought was correct, until I did some careful study over the last year or so, and it is rather heavy on the surface detail. And apart from that, it appears to be a E-3, with the earlier 'rounded' canopy !
For the wing tip bands on my model, I took the line from studying the overhead photos of Schopfel's aircraft, and others with similar bands, where it is evident that the band is wider, in line with the first panel joint.

 

[Wurger]

yep.. these larger bands of wingtips can be noticed in a couple of shots. These flashes seem to be painted from a wing tip to the third aerofoil of the aileron including the entire length of the trim tab and smometimes to the panel line at the wing top.

 

[parsifal]

Ive widened the wingtip flashes and modified the pushed the RLM65 line up the side a little. ive retained the white flash over the yellow, purely on the strength of both the eduard and Airfix painting instructions I don't know that B&W photos for Werras a/c show conculsively whether those flashes were white or yellow, but I'm running with the crowd and painting them white.

Thanks guys so much once again.

 

[Wurger]

 

[Airframes]

Good stuff Michael, and there is no doubt that von Werra's aircraft, as with all JG3 aircraft, carried the white bands, rather than yellow.
This was the earlier colour used for rapid I.D. in the air, introduced in mid-August 1940, but fairly soon replaced by yellow, as it was more visible against the bright sky background, and the areas painted in this colour gradually increased during mid to late August, evolving from wing tips and a rudder segment, to eventually, the entire engine cowling and all of the rudder and, in some cases, all of the tail area.
It would seem that some of the Gruppen or Staffeln of the unit were rather slow to change over to yellow, as at least von Werra's aircraft, and that of Heinz Schnabel, among others, still had white markings in early September.
Interestingly, having very recently watched, again, the 1958 movie "The One that Got Away", starring Hardy Kruger as von Werra, it seems that the film's producers and art department got things right, as the very convincing replica of von Werra's aircraft used in the opening scenes appeared with the correct, clean colour scheme - although the film showed the canopy opening the opposite way, presumably due to camera angle considerations, an allowable error in the circumstances !
Even just for background interest, it's worth watching this movie (it can be viewed online, free), as it is a fairly accurate, and very interesting portrayal of his crash-landing, capture, interrogation, escape attempts in England, and eventual successful escape from Canada.

 

[Wurger]

Do you mean the movie Terry?