Vic Balshaw
Major General
Your working wonders with this machine Andy and even with those gaps it's still looking quite good. 
**** DONE: GB-60 1/48 Avro Anson Mk.I - Zombie Build
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Wow, that's a new one on me - never heard of a Cheetah in a Mk II, the Jacobs kinda being one of the things that makes a Mk II a Mk II!!? Very strange as the engine mount ring, engine controls, hydraulics, etc. are quite different - not an easy switch. I now know what one of my first investigations is gonna be next time I'm in Nanton 
. Next question is that air scoop a standard Mk I fitting or a later "Canadianization" that's been grafted on? Lots of questions opened with this one.
Don't see any sign of a filter in the photos so the two settings will be for cold and hot air: either cold air fed directly from the scoop or carb heat with heated air coming from some location near the exhaust ring (the Cheetah X had a hot air manifold that actually was ducted inside the exhaust ring but have never seen that on a Cheetah IX).
Marathon job on that masking, good luck.
cheers
Scott
. Next question is that air scoop a standard Mk I fitting or a later "Canadianization" that's been grafted on? Lots of questions opened with this one.Don't see any sign of a filter in the photos so the two settings will be for cold and hot air: either cold air fed directly from the scoop or carb heat with heated air coming from some location near the exhaust ring (the Cheetah X had a hot air manifold that actually was ducted inside the exhaust ring but have never seen that on a Cheetah IX).
Marathon job on that masking, good luck.
cheers
Scott
bet that masking was a Painful exercise.....got it licked though..
- Thread starter
- #145
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks guys. Painful yes Wayne.
The engines on the Nanton restoration are in fact Jacob's L-6s and that Anson is a Mk II, not a Mk I. The intake unit, I agree, probably features a carb air heat duct rather than a filter. I did read that carb air heat was a mod made to the original batch of British Ansons shipped to Canada, of which mine was one. However, it's not certain whether my bird was modified in its first summer before being converted to a dual controlled trainer so I'm back to what this intake would have looked like for my machine.
The Airfix Mk I has a detail that looks very similar to what Classic Airframes provided, i.e. a small bulged insert that appears to allow air to be drawn into the intake from behind, rather than a forward facing scoop, so that's what I'll do.
OK, I must apologise as my ignorance of this aircraft type is showing. I thought, wrongly, that the Jacobs engine was a 9 cylinder unit and so, seeing that the units mounted on the Nanton bird were 7 cylinder, I immediately thought that these were Cheetahs. My bad.Wow, that's a new one on me - never heard of a Cheetah in a Mk II, the Jacobs kinda being one of the things that makes a Mk II a Mk II!!? Very strange as the engine mount ring, engine controls, hydraulics, etc. are quite different - not an easy switch. I now know what one of my first investigations is gonna be next time I'm in Nanton
Don't see any sign of a filter in the photos so the two settings will be for cold and hot air: either cold air fed directly from the scoop or carb heat with heated air coming from some location near the exhaust ring (the Cheetah X had a hot air manifold that actually was ducted inside the exhaust ring but have never seen that on a Cheetah IX).
Marathon job on that masking, good luck.
cheers
Scott
The engines on the Nanton restoration are in fact Jacob's L-6s and that Anson is a Mk II, not a Mk I. The intake unit, I agree, probably features a carb air heat duct rather than a filter. I did read that carb air heat was a mod made to the original batch of British Ansons shipped to Canada, of which mine was one. However, it's not certain whether my bird was modified in its first summer before being converted to a dual controlled trainer so I'm back to what this intake would have looked like for my machine.
The Airfix Mk I has a detail that looks very similar to what Classic Airframes provided, i.e. a small bulged insert that appears to allow air to be drawn into the intake from behind, rather than a forward facing scoop, so that's what I'll do.
Nice work so far Andy!
A4K
Brigadier General
These will either help or hinder, Andy... details of Bill Reid's Anson Mk.I K6183 (ZK-RRA).
(From 'Fighters & Bombers', by Gavin Conroy)
(From 'Fighters & Bombers', by Gavin Conroy)
A4K
Brigadier General
More from same book (close ups of book photos)
- Thread starter
- #149
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks Evan. That's the one that I mentioned earlier that clearly has a large air filter on the intake. I've not seen any photos of Canadian Ansons with that arrangement.
I've got a plan now so I'm moving on.
I've got a plan now so I'm moving on.
A4K
Brigadier General
No worries Andy. None of the kiwi Ansons had the above arrangement either, but can't find clear shots of the rear of the cowl to see exactly what is there. This is the best of what I have from various books (all Mk.Is):
Note some kiwi Ansons were retrofitted with Oxford cowlings.
Note some kiwi Ansons were retrofitted with Oxford cowlings.
- Thread starter
- #151
Crimea_River
Marshal
Good stuff Evan, thanks.
More frustrations. This time it's the sliding panel on the underside of the nose. All pics are Mk I's and all are from different aircraft.
Clear panel:
Solid panel:
Bogus (!?) profiles and plans:
Honestly, I've seen more wartime pics with the panel in a solid colour than clear so I think I will go that route.
More frustrations. This time it's the sliding panel on the underside of the nose. All pics are Mk I's and all are from different aircraft.
Clear panel:
Solid panel:
Bogus (!?) profiles and plans:
Honestly, I've seen more wartime pics with the panel in a solid colour than clear so I think I will go that route.
fubar57
General
This just gets more and more interesting and possibly painful for the builder. Hoping you see this through to the end Andy even if its Zombie GBX
Those are definitely "aftermarket" filters. Those may be Cheetah XV engines and not IXs . That airframe had Cheetah XVs installed when the wooden wings were replaced with the metal wings from a C19 Anson. I notice it has electric start and power hydraulics, neither of which came on a stock Cheetah IX.
Makes sense that if the aircraft wasn't used for bombing practice the clear panel up front would be replaced with a solid one. There was, however bombing practice taking place at 33 SFTS (bombing range was over Lake Winnipeg), so at least some of the Ansons at Carberry would have had clear panels. Like I said earlier, seems like every station (and even every individual aircraft) had its own distinctive character. Makes the research interesting
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- #155
Crimea_River
Marshal
The thing is, if the panel slid back anyway for bomb aiming then it would seem to make no difference if it was clear or solid. At least that's how my pea brain sees it.Makes sense that if the aircraft wasn't used for bombing practice the clear panel up front would be replaced with a solid one. There was, however bombing practice taking place at 33 SFTS (bombing range was over Lake Winnipeg), so at least some of the Ansons at Carberry would have had clear panels. Like I said earlier, seems like every station (and even every individual aircraft) had its own distinctive character. Makes the research interesting
A4K
Brigadier General
Agree on the theory, not the pea brain thing Andy!
Good work so far Andy!
Too true, never considered that
.On another topic, thanks for raising that whole carb intake thing, made me have a dig under our surviving nacelle mounted engine to see what's actually under there - we haven't started any resto work on it yet so it's in pretty rough shape, but even though it has been bent up a bit I think you can see the general arrangement:
Front view shows the intake (circled in magenta) just under oil pump
Right side view gives a better idea of the vanes dividing the cold air intake. The hot air (carb heat) intake is that opening behind the exhaust header with a short length of flex pipe leading to the plenum under the carb. I think the cold air scoop has been bent upwards - it should face more straight forward.
Left side view shows the hot air duct on that side - pretty primitive but I guess it worked. You can see here how the intake has been rotated back from its original position.
Hope this fills in some questions. And be thankful you don't have to reassemble a working intake out of what you see here
.cheers
Scott
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- Thread starter
- #159
Crimea_River
Marshal
Thanks for that Scott. I'm looking at these pics on my phone and am not making out the details too well. Will look at them on my laptop tomorrow. There's another aspect of this that i need to look at in regard to the exhaust arrangement and I'll report back on that if/when things are a bit clearer.
It definitely has Cheetah IXs, a former work colleague of mine overhauled the engines in his workshop.
More of the filter arrangement on Bill's Anson. Bear in mind Bill has compromised on operational details such as electric starter and so forth for the ease of operation and certification, but those concessions aside it is as close to as it appeared out of the factory in Mk.I condition as a maritime recon aircraft.
Note the carb intake without the filter fitted. This is the aircraft undergoing restoration. From what wartime images I have seen of Mk.Is, it would not be amiss to depict the aircraft with the simple airscoop without a filter as in this image. It is dependent on the condition of the aircraft when it arrived in Canada though.
By contrast, this is IWM's Mk.I with later model wings, cowls and their subsequent filter. The intake as shown above was the same, it was just the filter on the lower cowl that was different.
This is MH120, or VH-BAF as it was when Bill Reid bought it. This is at Air World, Wangaratta in Australia. Note the later style of cowl.
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