Doras Galoras - Unofficial GB

[Zaggy]

@Crimea - I always start with a Black undercoat... First it makes Alclad metals look wicked and secondly, like Sergio here, you can apply colour in a sort of splotchy manner and slowly build up coverage, but maintain a sort of 'depth' to it... I tried it for the first time maybe 12 months back (after going heavy on the pre-shading) and have NEVER gone back! Black under colour is the way to go. Oh and if you paint the surface from an angle, you get little paint getting into the depth of your panel lines, so it makes you panel lines look 'better' too.

As for what Black to use, Alclad is the way to go... I tried Vallejo stuff and it was just too soft to use an heavy weathering techniques on...


D

 

[Wayne Little]

Looking good Sergio!

 

[N4521U]

I been thinkin about the comment of black undercoat.

There's a bloke around the corner who works in pastels, landscapes, seascapes, and I asked him the same question as he does the same. The colors are truer according to him. Since I've never used pastels in art work, I can't vouch for that, but! His pastels are brilliant. It may be worth a try, or test, eh? Seems to work for old Sergio here.

 

[meatloaf109]

I have always used black as a first coat on figures, never thought about the planes themselves...

 

[Crimea_River]

I knew about using it for Alclad metals but have never heard of it for normal colours.

 

[Zaggy]

Black as an undercoat for colour works brilliantly - you cant get more 'texture' and more control over the shade than you can a neutral or white primer... And as above, in my opinion, helps with panel lines too! You do end up working a bit slower (or maybe thats just me), but yeah, since I happened upon it a while back, I've not looked back!

D

 

[destrozas]

As for what Black to use, Alclad is the way to go... I tried Vallejo stuff and it was just too soft to use an heavy weathering techniques on...

I do not know exactly what happened to you but it is one of vallejo paints I use most being less than 45 minutes from my house and have made ​​a good friend there working as a business, sell their products and others. T he case if the plastic is very clean Vallejo primers are good and strong grip, not the colors that can not be painted without priming before.
particularly as insurance for potential disasters that happen to me with paint paint paint before giving any soil weathering give hands nail varnish if after I work with acrylic and acrylic if I work with enamels or lacquer to protect the paint and not have problems reactions.

 

[destrozas]

Black as an undercoat for colour works brilliantly - you cant get more 'texture' and more control over the shade than you can a neutral or white primer... And as above, in my opinion, helps with panel lines too! You do end up working a bit slower (or maybe thats just me), but yeah, since I happened upon it a while back, I've not looked back!
D

not quite understand you want to refer to this post for my English which is very short, but the translator confused me even more.

not quite understand you want to refer to this post for my English which is very short, but the translator confused me even more.
I'm still learning to airbrush every 6 or 9 months I will airbrush courses oriented vehicles and other decoration, alla learn many things in my models then applied this technique as a base of black paint is used in paints composition lacquer (such as alclad), which enhances the nuances of color that is used to according to airbrush chrome also, the only thing I add different techniques such as overhead, or the lights and shadows and color that is overlapping I always use the main, is a compendium of techniques.

 

[Zaggy]

Vallejo - the paint I like (although I tend to use mostly LifeColor Acrylics, ModelMaster Enamels and Alclad Lacquers), but I tried the Surface Primer (in Black) a while ago and it was TERRIBLE! Firstly, if you prime and find anything that needs even a LIGHT sand, forget it! As soon as you sand/polish the Vallejo Primer, it just tears off the surface. As for weathering (happened on my D-11 the other month), while working with crushed pastels, to create exhaust staining, I guess I got a bit 'vigourous', because the combination of Crushed Pastel (abrasive) and presure (from a short bristled, stiff brush), once again TORE the Primer off the plastic!

The Alclad on the other hand, being a lacquer, actually forms a chemical bond with the plastic surface, dries MUCH harder and sands/polishes much better. My technique usually involves lightly polishing the primer before colour is applied; something thats impossible with the Vallejo Primer.

As for WHY I use Black as undercoat/primer, I THINK we agree on this - not only is it a much better primer colour for Alclad Metal Lacquers, but you get much nicer colour (more 'depth' or 'texture' or 'feel' or something). Also, I have noticed that if you apply light coats of colour on black and keep the air brush at an angle to the surface, you get less colour paint in the recessed panel lines. This gives them a slightly darker appearance, even before applying a wash.

I hope that translate better for you?

I'm Australian - the rest of the English-speaking world has trouble understanding us most of the time anyway. Makes sense that Google-Translate is the same


Dan

 

[dneid]

D-9 Black 1 14/JG26 WNr 210003 Dortenmann

Hey, All,
I have spent the past week dry fitting, dry fitting, and dry fitting. With each dry fit, I was checking for any interference between parts. The engine plug presented a few minor problems, but I caught most of those due to the comments Andy and Dan (Zaggy, did I get that right?) posted. After trying numerous dry fits on the wings and the wing fuse joints I have discovered the main issue is the wing spar. It makes for a tight fit between the fuse and ejector chutes. It also interferes with the canon bay areas that are molded into the fuse wing roots.

Pic 1:

Here you can see the spar, canon bay area looking from the inner wing root. As you can see, the canon bay does make contact with the spar. I had already filed down some of the forward edge of the canon bay forward wall. This area had to be cleared up as it was preventing the leading edge of the upper and lower wing from lining up. The upper wing was falling back from the lower wing by about 1/4 to 1/2 mm (very noticeable). Sanding down the corner of the forward canon bay corner made this upper/lower wing joint line up nicely. For those of you building the Eduard kit, you will see that the canon bay wall makes contact with the spar right where the spar angles towards the leading edge. There is still contact deeper (toward the wing tip) in the interface.

Pic 2:

This picture shows a couple of mechanical interfaces you need to be aware of. The first is the ejector chute/spar area. The wing will need to slip between the spar and the chutes (a tight fit). The other is the interface of the outer edge of the center region of the spar and the edge of the wing root molded into the fuse. This is a very tight fit and I am still dbl checking this area. Not sure how serious any issues MAY be with this interface.

Pic 3:

This picture gives a clearer view of the spar/wing root area. As you can see, the center spar area will make contact with the fuse wing root. Dbl check, dbl check, dbl check.

Pic 4:

This picture shows the aft side of the above view. This is the spar/wing root area as viewed from behind. As you can see, the spar will make contact with the canon bay area that is molded into the fuse wing root area. I am expecting this to be an area that will need some clearance created for a better fit.

I hope this is of value to those of you who are just now starting an Eduards kit. It is a damned nice kit, just engineered tight. If I were starting again, I think I would sand the back side of the center section of the spar BEFORE I assembled the spar to the lower wing. All I can say is dry fit, dry fit, and dry fit some more.

Andy, Dan, comments on the spar issues I found? Your thoughts?

Thanks for stopping in guys.

Dale

 

[A4K]

Great work guys!

 

[destrozas]

Vallejo - the paint I like (although I tend to use mostly LifeColor Acrylics, ModelMaster Enamels and Alclad Lacquers), but I tried the Surface Primer (in Black) a while ago and it was TERRIBLE! Firstly, if you prime and find anything that needs even a LIGHT sand, forget it! As soon as you sand/polish the Vallejo Primer, it just tears off the surface. As for weathering (happened on my D-11 the other month), while working with crushed pastels, to create exhaust staining, I guess I got a bit 'vigourous', because the combination of Crushed Pastel (abrasive) and presure (from a short bristled, stiff brush), once again TORE the Primer off the plastic!

The Alclad on the other hand, being a lacquer, actually forms a chemical bond with the plastic surface, dries MUCH harder and sands/polishes much better. My technique usually involves lightly polishing the primer before colour is applied; something thats impossible with the Vallejo Primer.

As for WHY I use Black as undercoat/primer, I THINK we agree on this - not only is it a much better primer colour for Alclad Metal Lacquers, but you get much nicer colour (more 'depth' or 'texture' or 'feel' or something). Also, I have noticed that if you apply light coats of colour on black and keep the air brush at an angle to the surface, you get less colour paint in the recessed panel lines. This gives them a slightly darker appearance, even before applying a wash.

I hope that translate better for you?

I'm Australian - the rest of the English-speaking world has trouble understanding us most of the time anyway. Makes sense that Google-Translate is the same

Dan

HI, dan,

thank you very much for the explanation, I agree on everything you mention and if I may give a metal when you dilute it a bit more than usual can make that color and optical effects in a metallic look and another is see black, according to which effect is very good at least with the super metal Gunze are what I spending, and I do not agree that the Australians do not understand you, I personally understand you at all costs something my English is not academic and colloquial, google translate is very bad to always have to go and do not have good rectifying times conjugation of verbs in Castilian we have more than 20 ways of conjugating verbs and you miss one.

 

[destrozas]

Here I put the base and the finished painting today and anger phase layers of varnish, decals, details and more photos I put varnishes and further complicated the issue.

I forgot to paint the metal piece with Gunze sm8

 

[Wayne Little]

Cool!

 

[A4K]

Should be interesting Sergio!

 

[woody]

Nice work guys, I was just wondering on my build the underside is painted now would you spray the top of the wings then the fuse or visa-versa thanks.

 

[Crimea_River]

Jerry, I would spray the RLM 76 next then the greens.

 

[Wurger]

 

[destrozas]

With Andy

 

[Zaggy]

OK, lets address some of these issues - as I am still short of Alclad Black and thus still at a standstill; so I may as well talk sh|t on here!

@Woody - I have found the best way is as follows:
1. Metal under the wings (if applicable - then mask)
2. Fuselage and Underside RLM76 (undersides of wings if applicable)
3. Upper Fuselage Colours
4. Mask Fuselage along the Wing Root fairing step (quite easy this way) and horizontal tails - if your wing undersurfaces are metal have a RLM75 or RLM83 (or RLM81) leading edge, mask all round the lower engine covers too
5. Spray wings and Upper Horizontal tails - if you have a wrap-round colour on the leading edge, go that one first.

Bobs your Uncle! Of interest, I often spray the ailerons and Elevators and Rudder RLM76 area in a different shade of RLM76 (ie, different brand of paint, or whatever)' and depending upon the Block, the Rudder may end up in a Light Grey or something (my thoery is that it maybe RLM77) and there may also be a 'mysterious' diagonal demarcation line on the fuselage between RLM76 on the Upper and 'Neutral Grey' on the lower surfaces - see examples like D-9 211164 (Black <4-+-) or most of the D-11's; also shows up on some Late A-8's and A-9's.

@Dale/Dneid - now that you mention it, I do remember knocking out a little bit of wing root for the spars, but closing the wings up (twice now), I didnt use the gun-bays at all. My big hassle with the spar was that on the D-11, it shifted sideways SLIGHTLY when I clamped it - I only noticed it after the decals were on (so the D-11 sits unfinished - I need to dremel the gear mounts slightly). But otherwise, all was well - possibly a result of different wing plastic for the D-11 and A-8 - BUT, suprisingly, I havent done a Eduard D-9 yet, so I've no experience with the ejector chutes, nor have I 'opened one up' to show off the guns!!! Weird isnt it, how I have a Tamiya/Verlindin D-9 80% done (engine exposed, Scratchbuilt Radiator, Flaps Down, etc), which required cutting SOOO much plastic and sanding SOOO much resin, but in the case of the Eduard Kit, where none of that is really needed, I have to 'close it up'... We modellers are strange!

And Yes, Zaggy = Dan!


D