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- #181
Erich Hartmann and his victories and overclaims over Hungary
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Sure, ok…
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- #183
Dude it's over.
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- #184
You are clearly trying to provoke me. Which is hilarious. So yeah you're being confrontational. And you're clearly rattled and bitter. Just chill. It's ok.
Sigh all you want. Stating a victory is a victory but not a victory is contradictory, the funny thing is you can't even see it. You can pick and choose with your 20/20 hindsight all you wan't, but I'll draw the line at your defamation of the men who bravely took the skies every day.
In the Battle of Britain the British had a whole system for recovering everything possible from downed and damaged aircraft, the Germans and their pilots had no idea about that. On the other side of the channel the Luftwaffe were operating from temporary airfields with little ability to repair anything, especially bombers which had to be stripped and put on a train back to Germany, consequently many landed and neither took off again or were officially destroyed. You cannot expect a pilot to know what the enemy can do in terms of repair, and I am neither mad, angry or having a "melt down"
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- #187
No if someone forced an opponent to give up you think it's a victory and I don't.
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- #188
Beating an opponent doesn't mean their plane was destroyed
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- #189
Chill.
lol
Honestly, I'm not trying to provoke anyone. You came in here with a opinion, and ran it off as some superior fact/point of view. Nobody here, and most importantly the air forces/ pilots themselves do not agree, and we are debating them (mostly by talking past each other).
Look, I honestly love different views and opinions. They usually make for good discussions, and this forum would be boring if we all had the same opinion.
And since you claim to know I am rattled and bitter (which I am not even close to being), do you have the next lottery winning numbers too?
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- #191
How does no one understand stand this? Are you being doing this on purpose? You have to be
Wrong! I know you are!
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- #193
I ran it as an opinion. I never said it was my opinion at first since it was obvious it's just my opinion.
So if an MMA fighter forces an opponent to give up its not a victory?
Holtzauge
Airman
After some "hard" thinking I think I see why this thread has gone south: This is all about Western oppression and hegemony in victory counts, caused by our failure to embrace Chen10's postcolonial and woke victory assessment models according to which we can all have our own opinions, because as Foucault and Derrida have taught us, facts do not exist but are merely social constructs. 
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Did anyone ever file a report that said "I beat my opponent"? The whole claims system by all forces was concerned with destruction of aircraft, not some esoteric valour in combat about "beating an opponent" which cannot be graded assessed or filed. It is emotional nonsense, like a lot of things surrounding the discussion of long since passed WW2 aces.
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- #197
Well isn't the objective of shooting an aircraft to destroy it? An MMA fighter doesn't fight to kill. A fighter pilot tries to destroy an aircraft. So the rules are different
Thats not the point of a victory. A victory is simply shooting an opponent down. It does not matter if it was completely destroyed. How do you not understand this? Are you being doing this on purpose? You have to be
No, they are not. They are both victories.
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- #200
I understand this since I mentioned that people have this as their definition. That is proof I understand people have this opinion. This proves I never said my opinion was fact. I acknowledged that people have a different opinion.
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