My head just exploded.
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My head just exploded.Here's one. If a pilot shoots down an enemy aircraft over his own territory, and later his own forces repair it and fly it again. Is it a victory? It was repaired. It was not destroyed. It flew again…
Ouch maybe change subject here?
In the sticks we called that, pulling a Hank SnowI'm moving on…
By this logic, a pilot cannot claim a victory if the enemy pilot survives.It's not a victory because the aircraft was repaired.
If the pilot lands at base with a damaged aircraft and it gets repaired I don't count that.
I don't know why it's so hard to understand my view
Yes, you would be awarded a kill.What you have is an opinion which unfortunately for you does not mean much when it comes to air combat.
What I believe is fact. If an aircraft is shot down, its a kill, and that is also how the people who actually have a dog in the fight (fighter pilots) believe as well.
In fact, lets ask an actual fighter pilot.BiffF15 , if you were to shoot down another aircraft, but it was eventually repaired and put back into service, would you be awarded a kill?
I think Adler is misunderstood by many on the forum. He's actually well balanced and easy going. And a very valuable member of the forum team and has been for many years.You know, I used to think Der Adler was pretty touchy and easy to "get going." Now it sort of seems like he has the patience of a saint.
All Hail Saint Der Adler!
You know, I used to think Der Adler was pretty touchy and easy to "get going." Now it sort of seems like he has the patience of a saint.
I think Adler is misunderstood by many on the forum. He's actually well balanced and easy going. And a very valuable member of the forum team and had been for many years.
Mate there's people claiming that the RN didn't sink the Bismarck because the sea cocks were opened before the crew abandoned her.In a broader sense, the USN lost the Battle of Midway because it failed to sink all of the Japanese ships, then.
That may be so, but had it not been for the Stringbags jamming her rudder, she would have been a dangerous adversary for the RN's taskforce to contend with and most likely inflicted serious damage to the RN elements closing in.Mate there's people claiming that the RN didn't sink the Bismarck because the sea cocks were opened before the crew abandoned her.
Yes, you would be awarded a kill.
This thread is bordering on madness. And I'm only on page 8 as I write this. It's beyond Ground Hog part 3.
CHen10,
I have been in exercises where the kills, friendly losses, battle damage, personel losses, weapons expenditures were all mis-tracked. As a matter of fact we were graded on how we did the mundane tracking of this and more. And you think the that any military force, in a literal battle for survival, is going to get all its facts straight? And you want us to rely on your opinion having read someone else's opinion? How many times have you risked your life in combat? Been shot at? Feared for your life or that of your fellow soldier?
Your willingness to pass judgment so handily on those who walked the floor of the arena is truly mind boggling. I ask that you take a minute to reflect on what these gentlemen are so desperately trying to explain to you. You are way off base here.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt
Paris, France
23 April 1910
Biff out
oh that exact thing has been argued in this forum before !Mate there's people claiming that the RN didn't sink the Bismarck because the sea cocks were opened before the crew abandoned her.
Mate there's people claiming that the RN didn't sink the Bismarck because the sea cocks were opened before the crew abandoned her.
I understand what they're trying to say. However, my opinion is not going to change on this subject. Many people including myself have already closed the case when it comes to Hartmann and we have already made our minds up. I haven't researched Hartmann that much but other people have and I've seen their analysis in detail, which results in his victory tally being far less than 352. I'd give him 190 at the very most.I ask that you take a minute to reflect on what these gentlemen are so desperately trying to explain to you. You are way off base here.
I've never criticised Hartmann personally. I have only praised him. I have repeatedly said he was an excellent pilot and humble as well. I am just simply saying his score is far less than 352.Your willingness to pass judgment so handily on those who walked the floor of the arena is truly mind boggling.
Since this is an interesting question I will answer it, but this is an exception, and this is my final post on this subject.Here's one. If a pilot shoots down an enemy aircraft over his own territory, and later his own forces repair it and fly it again. Is it a victory? It was repaired. It was not destroyed. It flew again…