Ft. Hood incident

[GrauGeist]

Of course there will be a new round of gun control debate over this (and any other gun-related tragedy) but what they are failing to see, is that if a person has made up their mind to inflict harm on other people, they will whatever means is at their disposal. A bomb vest, knives, hammers, a vehicle, a rock or sharp-pointy stick. It makes no matter to them.

What needs to be looked at very closely, is why, in this day and age, are we having such an increase of violence when a century ago, when everybody had access to firearms, it wasn't such an epidemic.

Kids roaming the streets punching and knocking people out, at random is a clear indication that something in society is broken...

 

[pbehn]

Of course there will be a new round of gun control debate over this (and any other gun-related tragedy) but what they are failing to see, is that if a person has made up their mind to inflict harm on other people, they will whatever means is at their disposal. A bomb vest, knives, hammers, a vehicle, a rock or sharp-pointy stick. It makes no matter to them.

What needs to be looked at very closely, is why, in this day and age, are we having such an increase of violence when a century ago, when everybody had access to firearms, it wasn't such an epidemic.

Kids roaming the streets punching and knocking people out, at random is a clear indication that something in society is broken...

GG that was the basic theme of what the guy was saying. Guns per se are not the problem it is why people with mental problems feel the need to "take revenge" on others, people that in many cases have no connection with them, frequently school kids, we have had it in UK to. Thats enough from me before I piss people of. Best wishes to the bereaved.

 

[Torch]

Tough to figure out,you have the right to docter/patient priviledge but at what point does the Doc throw the flag and say whoa we have a problem with a person,Everyone of these shooters had mental issues yet no docs came forth to flag the person except for a recent case in Colorado where the person planned to go on a shooting spree at a Halloween kiddie party. The doc blew the whistle and another tragedy was prevented..If the mental issue goes public,minor or major it can mess your future up big time. Heck I think half the pshyc docs are a little screwy themselves..

 

[buffnut453]

The biggest challenge is determining when someone becomes a threat to themselves and/or to others. It's impossible to predict what series of events might push someone over the edge, and equally impossible to do anything about it once that tipping point is reached...unless the doc is seeing the individual multiple times per day (like I said, impossible).

One of my frustrations is the constant focus on "bad people with guns can only be neutralized by good people with guns." The assumption is that we're all (mostly) good people. Unfortunately, that logic doesn't jive with my paragraph above. Everyone is susceptible to a chain of events that might result in temporarily insane action. Look at the retired policeman who shot a father in a Florida cinema in January this year. This retired cop was probably a pillar of society (so character witnesse have testified) and yet he killed a husband and father over texting during a movie...and the victim was texting his young daughter who was at home. What started out as a simple argument escalated to a tipping point where a gun was drawn and a man was killed.

It's simply impossible to determine who are the good guys and who are the bad guys and we, as society, need to recognize that we all have tipping points rather than blithely assume that we always wear the white hat while the person in the black hat is always "the other guy".

 

[GrauGeist]

Another observation of today's environment, is that people are quick to extreme violence.

When I was a kid, if a dispute broke out where blows were tossed, it stayed at that level and the first guy down signalled the end of the fight. The winner backed off, the loser got up, dusted himself off and that was that.

Nowdays, if the fight stays with fists, the guy that goes down gets face-kicked, neck-stomped and more often, the winner's friends jump in and help kick the loser into a pink bag of jelly.

It seems to me that the younger generation has been led to beleive that there are no serious consequences for their actions, that if anything goes wrong, it's the fault of society.

 

[michaelmaltby]

"...no serious consequences for their actions..."

Nailed it. I blame Walt Disney and Road Runner for today's delusional state

 

[Torch]

LOL watched all those cartoons,Bugs,Elmer Fudd etc. Been shooting since I was 9 yrs old with an air rifle,Never in my wildest dreams would I ever contemplate going to the extremes of using firearms on humans unless myself and family are in an unavoidable situation. And there's truth in the old days,used to have fight,win or lose you get over it and move on.If you watch youtube street fights its nothing but brute savagery. If this cycle continues it will just get worse.

 

[Torch]

Speaking of the devil,20 people stabbed at a Pennsylvania high school,1 person in custody.

 

[buffnut453]

Thankfully nobody was killed and, according to reporting, the wounds are not life-threatening. Could have been a very different story.

 

[mikewint]

A student flashing two knives went on a stabbing rampage through the classrooms and halls of a high school outside Pittsburgh on Wednesday morning, authorities said. At least 19 students and a security guard were hurt, some with life-threatening injuries.
The suspect, a 16-year-old sophomore, was in custody and being questioned by police, authorities said. His motive was unclear, said Dan Stevens, a Westmoreland County emergency management spokesman.
The first photo of the suspect emerged several hours after the mayhem. NBC News is blurring the face of the teen in the photo, from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, because of his age. He had not been charged or identified.
The student was "flashing two knives around" as he moved through the classrooms and a first-floor hallway, said Thomas Seefeld, the Murrysville police chief. A principal tackled the stabber, he said. The security guard suffered a stomach wound.
The attack happened at Franklin Regional High School, in the suburb of Murrysville, just after doors opened for the day. A student described panic in the halls.
"I was walking into the school and a stampede of people were running after me," said the student, Kari Lee, who said several of her friends had been knifed. "They were screaming, 'Go to your cars! Go to your cars! Someone is stabbing people!'"
A doctor at one hospital, UPMC Presbyterian, said the attack appeared to have been carried out with a long knife.
A 17-year-old boy was on life support at that hospital after the knife pierced his liver, his diaphragm and several major blood vessels. It missed his heart by millimeters, a doctor told reporters.
The boy was on life support Wednesday afternoon and will need blood transfusions and additional surgery, but doctors said they were optimistic that he would survive.
In all, 21 people were taken to the hospital, at least four critically. The 21 injured included the 19 students, the security guard and a second adult who had what hospital officials described as a "medical condition" during the attack.
Seven teenagers and an adult were taken to Forbes Regional Hospital, Dr. Chris Kauffman, the trauma director there, told NBC News. The seven were stabbed in the chest, back and abdomen, he said. He characterized some of the injuries as life-threatening but said everyone was expected to live.
At least three students were in surgery. Others were undergoing CT scans and X-rays and could require surgery later, Kauffman said.
"None of these are superficial wounds," he told reporters. "These are all significant stabbing wounds, every one."
One girl may have saved the life of one of the stabbed by applying pressure to his wounds, hospital officials said. The girl was not hurt.
"She displayed an amazing amount of composure to help that friend, who was having significant bleeding," said Dr. Mark Rubino, a surgeon at Forbes hospital.
Stevens told WPXI, the NBC affiliate in Pittsburgh, that the first call for help from the school came at 7:13 a.m. The situation was under control by 7:30 to 7:40, he said.
Someone pulled a fire alarm in the chaos. A school principal was "the lead" to taking the suspect into custody, the police chief said, before the security guard applied handcuffs.
Ambulances swarmed the parking lot of the high school, and nearby streets were sealed off.
The school district said that high school students and middle school students nearby were "secure," and that elementary school had been canceled for the day. Parents were asked to report to an elementary school to pick up their children.
Students who drove to school were not allowed to drive home without a parent, according to the district.
The high school has about 1,200 students. Murrysville, about 20 miles east of Pittsburgh, is a city of 21,000. Renatta Signorini, a reporter for the Tribune-Review, told MSNBC that it is a city with low crime.
She said that the schools there do not have metal detectors but have been updating their security procedures. The police chief declined to comment on the school security measures.
The attack came exactly one year after a college student in Texas brandishing a utility knife ran through two floors of a campus building, injuring 14 people.
Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett said that he was shocked and saddened. He said he had directed the state police to help and would make other state resources available.

 

[GrauGeist]

This rash of mass-knife attacks in the U.S. is new, but something that has plagued China for many years now.

For some reason, the public schools in China seem to be a magnet for the a-holes that feel a need to inflict harm on completely innocent people and as a result, there have been fatalities in alarming numbers.

This world is just one huge messed up cesspool...

 

[mikewint]

And you all wonder why I carry. Todays story:
KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Missouri authorities are asking for federal helping in catching a serial shooter.

They're trying to find out who's behind more than a dozen sniper-like attacks on drivers on Kansas City freeways over the past month.

Three drivers have been wounded by gunfire as they drove along area highways, many in an area called the Three Trails Crossing, where three interstate highways intersect.

Ten of the 13 shootings happened in Kansas City, including Sunday evening when a 56-year-old man was eastbound on Interstate 435 near I-470 when he was shot in the left calf.

"I was freaking out, making sure he called 911."

For the wife and daughter of the Blue Springs, Missouri man, a disturbing phone call from him sunday night has left them feeling everything frightened and frustrated, even fortunate.

"Very, very fortunate that his injury was a bullet to his calf because it could have been so much worse."

The man, who does not want to be identified, is the most recent victim in a series of shootings.

Police confirmed at least some of the 13 recent incidents are related.

The other three shootings were in Leawood, Blue Springs and Lee's Summit.

Police Chief Darryl Forté met with FBI officials on Monday and has asked the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to assist.

So far three 3 people have been shot including that Blue Springs man, who was eastbound on 435 near 470 when three bullets struck his car.

One went through the drivers side door and went straight through his calf.

"We just don't know if they're doing it until they finally kill someone or is it just for fun. We just want to know why." .

Authorities want those questions answered too and are working with the fbi and atf.

The victim said he didn't see any cars around and sources have confirmed police believe it's possible the shooter it shooters were on foot, hiding in wait.

"I work in the operating room fixing people up that this happens to."

"I've done it for 30 years and if people only realized that it's someone's loved one, somebody's brother, somebody's father, somebody's mother, whoever it is, on a table that you're trying to fix from them doing something so senseless."

Authorities are offering up to a seven-thousand-dollar reward for information leading to an arrest in the shootings.

 

[pbehn]

This rash of mass-knife attacks in the U.S. is new, but something that has plagued China for many years now.

For some reason, the public schools in China seem to be a magnet for the a-holes that feel a need to inflict harm on completely innocent people and as a result, there have been fatalities in alarming numbers.

This world is just one huge messed up cesspool...

That happened far too many times when I was in China, completely outwith my experience of Chinese people as are the School attacks in USA. Why is it always school kids? We had it in UK in Dunblane, it makes no sense. If you want to attack a place with a knife try the SAS headquarters in hereford. Actually someone did that, pulled a knife on Paddy Ashdown UK political leader but ex SBS (maritime equal to SAS)

A MAN who attacked Liberal Democrat leader Paddy Ashdown with a flick-knife was jailed for a year yesterday.

Bearded Christopher Mason was sentenced at Taunton Crown Court after unexpectedly changing his plea to admit charges of affray and using or threatening unlawful violence.

Martin Meek, prosecuting, said the assault happened when Mr Ashdown, MP for Yeovil, Somerset, was investigating reports of racist incidents in the town centre with local vicar the Rev Mark Ellis.

Mason, 51, was drunk when he approached the two men.

Knife

He tried to knee Mr Ashdown in the groin before lashing out with a flick-knife with a four-inch blade.

But Mr Ashdown, a former marine, parried the blow and fought him off.

 

[Alex .]

Annnnd again...

BBC News - Three dead in Kansas City shootings

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

This has nothing to do with the Fort Hood incident. If you want to start a debate about another countries gun laws, don't do it in this thread...

 

[GrauGeist]

Annnnd again...

The point of this thread is about the shooting on a military base.

And as it's been mentioned, when people want to put harm on others, they'll use whatever means they have at their disposal: Knife crime | UK news | The Guardian

Removing one means or another will not solve the problem, the reason why they want to commit harm on others needs to be looked at and fixed. Take way firearms and they use knives, take away knives and they'll use hammers and so on and so on. And then what, ban all sharp-pointy sticks?

Fix the source of the problem, otherwise you're putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound.

 

[meatloaf109]

....because it is his inalienable right as an American.

Last I checked, it was no-ones right to kill anyone with a gun. Or a knife, or a rock,... paper, or scissors.
Wrong is wrong, my friend.
Do not try to place the blame on the tool used. Human nature is to blame. Pride, jealousy, lust; these are the things that cause problems.
Religion is another. To want to kill someone because they do not believe in your god, to me, is madness.
I sit on the sidelines and wonder if it is all worth it.
Not to say that I have been blameless in all of this,... far from it.
I will own my stupidity in the past;... Crass jokes, intolerance, unforgivable moments of lack of thought, where I caused another pain.
I claim these.
But just because others use an excuse for violence based on their belief, I call bullsh$t.

 

[GrauGeist]

When I was a kid, I recall being taught that violence was always to be used as a last resort against violence.

And if it came down to that, fight clean and fight fair. (no weapons, no neck stomping when they're down, etc.)

We used to have a class bully, he's go around and make our lives miserable. No one went and killed themselves or got all weird and shot the school up because of the bully, what we did was ganged up and beat the s**t out of him after school one afternoon. That ended that problem.

Things aren't the same today. Not in the U.S., not in Europe and not even in Asia...things are just plain weird all over the place.

This recent shooting incident at Fort Hood was apparently a PTS problem unlike the previous incident. Why the guy would turn on his own is beyond my comprehension. However, this isn't the first time it's happened with a military person. A former U.S. Marine went off and killed his Mother and Wife, then situated himself in the bell tower of the University of Texas and killed 14 more people back in '66.

 

[Alex .]

This has nothing to do with the Fort Hood incident. If you want to start a debate about another countries gun laws, don't do it in this thread...

I was merely pointing out another instance, nothing more. I have no interest in debating your gun law.

I had no idea it was out of order to post a related article; if it is to do with solely Fort Hood then half the posts in this thread are nothing to do with it either.

 

[mikewint]

My news post were also off target. My point was that violence is all over the country involving all aspects of life, schools, shopping malls, theaters, political rallies, etc. They involve whatever weapons come to hand. As Dave stated, guns, knives, hammers, etc. They happen in crowds because that is where a lot of people are packed together and panic can spread. What role PTSD played is questionable as is whether or not he even had PTSD. He had not been in combat and everyone is under stress.
I don't have a solution. Don't think there actually is one.