Ft. Hood incident

[tyrodtom]

My understanding that he had never been shot at, but he was in truck convoys in locations where there had previously been attacks.

Just worrying about being in combat, even if it never happens, is still going to be stressful for most people.

 

[buffnut453]

Mike,

I agree...there probably isn't a solution. There are "bad people" out there but they are a relatively small proportion of the population. All too often, we find "normal" people involved in committing these crimes and it's tough to align on a single reason for it. Why would an ex-cop shoot a father in a cinema in an argument over texting? I mean, really, on the grand scale of things it was a trivial excuse for an argument...and yet now some kid (or kids) are without their dad. The perpetrator wasn't a "bad person" but he did have access to a weapon and used it inappropriately.

I do wonder if the availability of weapons increases the likelihood of their use. Kind of like rugby union -vs- American football - the tackles in the latter are far more kinetic because the players have (perhaps overdeveloped) confidence in their invulnerability due to their protective pads and helmet. Do people (particularly those with greater amounts of testosterone) who carry a weapon feel somehow invulnerable and hence more likely to start an argument? Take the example of the shooting in Florida when Michael Dunn shot a young black kid in a convenience store car park. Again, the argument was over something trivial - music volume. Why didn't Mr Dunn simply find another parking spot or wait patiently until his fiancee finished buying whatever she was buying and then drive off? He clearly didn't intend to kill anyone that night (he was returning from a wedding) but it still happened and for no real reason.

Returning to the Fort Hood incident, again we have an argument getting out of control and someone with access to a weapon wreaking havoc. The key difference between a gun and a knife (or some other "weapon of opportunity") is that a gun can kill at range - there's no need to get up close and personal. Are feelings of invulnerability proportional to the weapon used?

I still have lots of questions - my concern is that society may not be asking the right questions. The assumption that crimes are only completed by "bad people" is patently nonsense. The more I hear of this awful deaths, the more I wonder about the impact of any weapon on the psyche of a person when tempers are raised, and on the impact of weapon type on feelings of invulnerability. As for the small proportion of "bad people", they will always be present in society but there are shades of grey even there - is someone truly "evil" or simply suffering from mental illness? If the latter, how on earth do you prevent them from committing a crime with a weapon? Preventing access is simply impossible - it would be like trying to predict precisely when someone will catch a particular disease.

No easy answers, unfortunately...

 

[GrauGeist]

My take on all of this, and I am far from being a qualified expert, is that society has shifted from personal responsability to one of social responsability.

The new age philosophy of "everyone is a winner" doesn't instill a sense of failure and recovery. In otherwords, the frustration of failure and the will to overcome is something people are not learning. An example: when we were kids and lost a game, the Coach would yell at us and tell us that second place was the first loser. If a Coach did that today, parents would rush in, take their children away and sue the Coach, school, school board and so on. When a child falls down and scuff their knee, the parents don't tell them to get up and deal with it, they rush the child away from the playground and call their attorney...the rest you can probably guess.

So in this world of instant gratification, people are ill-equipped to deal with setbacks, stress and failure.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I was merely pointing out another instance, nothing more. I have no interest in debating your gun law.

I had no idea it was out of order to post a related article; if it is to do with solely Fort Hood then half the posts in this thread are nothing to do with it either.

You are right. I jumped the gun. No pun intended...

I just don't want this thread going the way of every other gun thread in this forum. Non Americans telling Americans how to control their guns and gun rights in their own country.

 

[mikewint]

My Dad blamed Comic Books and Rock and Roll music.
I see video games that are horribly violent and gory and detached from consequences. So called "music" filled with filth and more violence. TV shows easily accessible to all ages filled with violence, gore, and graphic sexual scenes. (Chicage PD e.g. had the Head of their "Intelligence Squad" shoving a suspects hand into a running garbage disposal to make him talk).
We have certainly become a very permissive society where all must always "Feel Good" about themselves. I see it almost every day in the school system. Get a Failing grade...It's the teacher's fault for not teaching to your Differentiated Intelligence Type. Stressed over homework...Homework is not permitted. all work done in school. In a second year German class I said: "Entschuldigen Sie mich hast du nicht die Glocken lauten horen?" got blank stares "Bitte beanworten Sie laut wenn Sie ihren Namen horen" more blank stares. She never speaks to us in German I was told. A Seventh grader had an entire bus of kids terrorized. He told them he had a gun in his backpack and was going to shoot them all in the heads...A stern talking to (Now Johney, you know it's not nice to shoot your classmates in the head) and back on the bus the next day.
I am at a loss

 

[Alex .]

You are right. I jumped the gun. No pun intended...

I just don't want this thread going the way of every other gun thread in this forum. Non Americans telling Americans how to control their guns and gun rights in their own country.

I am not a certain Piers Morgan! (Absolute pillock)

 

[buffnut453]

Hey Alex, why are you being so nice to Piers Morgan? He deserves to be called much worse than that!

 

[meatloaf109]

My Dad blamed Comic Books and Rock and Roll music.
I see video games that are horribly violent and gory and detached from consequences. So called "music" filled with filth and more violence. TV shows easily accessible to all ages filled with violence, gore, and graphic sexual scenes. (Chicage PD e.g. had the Head of their "Intelligence Squad" shoving a suspects hand into a running garbage disposal to make him talk).
We have certainly become a very permissive society where all must always "Feel Good" about themselves. I see it almost every day in the school system. Get a Failing grade...It's the teacher's fault for not teaching to your Differentiated Intelligence Type. Stressed over homework...Homework is not permitted. all work done in school. In a second year German class I said: "Entschuldigen Sie mich hast du nicht die Glocken lauten horen?" got blank stares "Bitte beanworten Sie laut wenn Sie ihren Namen horen" more blank stares. She never speaks to us in German I was told. A Seventh grader had an entire bus of kids terrorized. He told them he had a gun in his backpack and was going to shoot them all in the heads...A stern talking to (Now Johney, you know it's not nice to shoot your classmates in the head) and back on the bus the next day.
I am at a loss

I blame the guy that invented the washing machine.
Stay with me.
There was a time when the basic needs of existence took up so much time that nobody had time for any such nonsense. The idea of "teen age" was silly. Everyone worked to just survive.
The advance of technology has created a self-centered mind set that is obvious to anyone at a mall. Children taking "selfies". Heads down, texting every minute of their self absorbed lives.
This is a "Me" thing. Everything revolves around "me".
I, and my friends, are the most important things around.
Now take this to a religion level. We have a self absorbed self-pitying malcontent with delusions.
Bang. There it is.

 

[GrauGeist]

Well, I think technology is the new religion...honestly. It would fall along the lines of the washing machine analogy.

Instant gratification, driving cars they know nothing about (except where the gas goes and where the XM radio/iPod port is), a new phone every 6 months, plasma this, LCD that...home theater, game consoles and the "interwebz"...

And like spoiled, "entitled" children, when things don't go their way, they become vicious, spiteful a-holes.

 

[Torch]

That just about sums it up..........

 

[Alex .]

I'm glad the older generation has so much faith in us youth!

 

[mikewint]

We have too, after all you decide what Nursing Home to put us in

 

[buffnut453]

I'm glad the older generation has so much faith in us youth!

Problem is this issue isn't confined to "the youth" (whoever they are). Neither incident that I cited (the ex-cop shooting a guy for texting in the cinema nor the one in the convenience store parking lot) involved a youth with a weapon, indeed in the latter case it was the youth who was on the receiving end.

 

[GrauGeist]

I'm glad the older generation has so much faith in us youth!

There will be exceptions to the rule and of course present company excluded.

 

[Torch]

LoL but the youth came from our loins..........Maybe it is our fault

 

[tyrodtom]

My Dad was of the WW2 generation, what a lot of people now call the "Greatest Generation".

But he died long before that they got hung with that label. But I can remember him saying when he was young, the older generations was describing them as the sorriest that had ever been born.


It's always been that way, and probably always will be.

 

[subkraft]

I'd suggest that there's a lot of this stuff is about how and what 'respect' has come to mean today.

Maybe earlier it was something to be earned, it was awarded to you by others for your achievements, contributions etc.

Today it seems to be something that is demanded as a right.

Combine that with an economic situation where a lot of people are denied being able to achieve self respect through participation in society...

The demand for 'respect' can be instantly enforced by the use of violence, guns, knives, whatever.

 

[meatloaf109]

I blame the guy that invented the washing machine.
Stay with me.
There was a time when the basic needs of existence took up so much time that nobody had time for any such nonsense. The idea of "teen age" was silly. Everyone worked to just survive.
The advance of technology has created a self-centered mind set that is obvious to anyone at a mall. Children taking "selfies". Heads down, texting every minute of their self absorbed lives.
This is a "Me" thing. Everything revolves around "me".
I, and my friends, are the most important things around.
Now take this to a religion level. We have a self absorbed self-pitying malcontent with delusions.
Bang. There it is.

I stand by my earlier comments.
Selfish desires and a disconnected sense of community, (by way of electronic contact), will result in this kind of mayhem.