Shooting at Fort Hood (1 Viewer)

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Reducing the complexity of the world to a bold and simple black-and-white cartoon may be very emotionally satisfying, but it ain't gonna be of much use if your goal is to find a means of identifying potentially dangerous people so as to prevent them from carrying out violent acts. For that job, you have to recognize and deal with the cold, hard facts in as objective a manner as possible.

Slapping a label on Hasan will not explain why he, an American-born and raised Muslim who has clearly demonstrated his intelligence and diligence by becoming both a doctor and an officer in the US military, chose to carry out a premeditated act of mass murder against his fellow soldiers. The bare fact that he was a Muslim is not a sufficient explanation for his actions. There are, after all, well over a million other Muslims in the US, and all these people are not running around slaughtering innocent people. So why did this particular Muslim act so differently from the vast majority of his fellow Muslim Americans?

That's the question that needs to be answered if you want to prevent similar atrocities in the future. Making bogus claims that your ideological opponents are implicit accomplices in this crime is not only slanderous, it's down right ludicrous. I'm probably as disdainful of PC as anyone here, but I also know that it wasn't PC that killed those people. Hasan did. And the moral responsibility for his actions are his alone. Just as pro-gun, anti-federalist Tomothy McVeigh was solely responsible for his slaughter of innocent people. Because despite their psychological deviations, neither men were/are 'insane' by the definitional criteria of law or medicine. They may have believed that their actions were justified by their twisted moral beliefs, but they also clearly knew that what they were planning to do was both legally and morally 'wrong' by the standards of their society. IOW, the explanatory fact that both men were clearly mental deviants does not a priori absolve them of the personal moral/legal responsibility for their actions. Because an explanation is NOT a justification.

The bogus conflation of explanation and justification is rife in this thread. Many here are outraged at what they perceive to be an ideological agenda to excuse Hasan of moral responsibility. However, while skepticism of explanatory psychological/sociological claims , ie: 'Pre-PTSD' etc, is completely justified, the wide-spread belief that those claims are in and of themselves, 'justifications', is not. The explanations may or may not be valid to some degree, but they do not, regardless of their possible validity, absolve Hasan of responsibility. That is an entirely separate issue. To be decided by the court that tries him. It is up to them to examine the various evidence and explanations, and to decide whether they are relevant to the legal and moral issues involved.

Whether Hasan qualifies for the label of 'terrorist', is ultimately irrelevant. If he is, he certainly wasn't a very devious one. What I've read about him leads me to speculate that while he may have decided to go out in a murderous blaze of Islamist 'glory' in emulation of Islamist terrorists, the reason that he chose to do so had more to do with his FU'ed personality than the bare fact that he was born into a Muslim family. 20/20 hindsight reveals that he also fits the profile of many other alienated and paranoid misfit loners who became mass murderers. In any case, he is too complex to be usefully explained by a simple word.:rolleyes:

JL
 
Damn good post, Butters !!

Altho, you will get a lot of flak about it. There are those on this forum who really believe in racial profiling,
and because his name is Hasan and because he is a Muslim is good enough for them to pronounce sentence.

Charles
 
I do not care for or like general statements such "all muslims are bad". My dad makes general statements like that once in a while and we have gotten into a heated discussion about things like that. I agree, most muslims, the large percentage are god fearing, morally sound, decent people. They do have their fair share of wackos as does any religion.
I think the problem is that this guy was not rooted out sooner even though he was being watched, is fear of law suits, reprisals from lawyers, fear of being labeled racists, etc. Seems there is too much ability for those who are accused of crimes even when there is ample evidence, to retaliate against their accusers. Maybe the evidence was not strong enough to convict him of anything before he went on his rampage, but would it have been enough to discharge him from the military? Labeling the prosecution or organization,(police force, military branch, whatever fits) as a racist, or dragging them through the mud is a tactic used all too often nowadays to smear the reputation of the accuser. Fear of huge multi million dollar lawsuits have gone a long way to preventing people like this guy from being dealt with before a tragedy like this happens.
 
Whether Hasan qualifies for the label of 'terrorist', is ultimately irrelevant. If he is, he certainly wasn't a very devious one. What I've read about him leads me to speculate that while he may have decided to go out in a murderous blaze of Islamist 'glory' in emulation of Islamist terrorists, the reason that he chose to do so had more to do with his FU'ed personality than the bare fact that he was born into a Muslim family. 20/20 hindsight reveals that he also fits the profile of many other alienated and paranoid misfit loners who became mass murderers. In any case, he is too complex to be usefully explained by a simple word.:rolleyes:

JL

While the world is definantly not black and white but shades of grey; there is such thing as good and evil to many of us. As we watch the moral decay of the west weaken another generation even more, I think we need to be seeing in more of black and white.

I see what you are trying to convey to us, and I even understand why you feel that way. You fear a backlash against muslims. I want you to know that a muslim in America is much more safer then a Christian in the Middle East. I have no animosity towards muslims and deal with them on a day to day basis because the high percentage of them in Texas. I have nothing but contempt and hate for the enemies of the United States of America. Right now that happens to be the Islamic jihad against the west and particularly the US and Isreal. Most people are smart enough to differentiate between good and bad people of any religion despite the liberal elitists view otherwise.

I don't think of Hasan as a terrorist or an enemy combatant but as a treasonous murderer. A lowdown turncoat who turned on his comrades in arms and killed them while they were vulnerable. If the nations liberal media was not infected with insanity they would see the obvious and not be trying to help Hasan by reporting and investigating on all of the most counter-intuitive excuses they can find for what average Americans are smart enough to see for themselves. Murderous treason has been committed. There is no good excuse for it from an American point of view.
 
Muslim...Mormon...Lutheran....Southern Baptist......I don't care what his religious affiliations were. He cold-bloodedly murdered 13 people, including a pregnant woman and her unborn child. For those two deaths alone, he should fry. He's paralyzed now, and someone is gonna try tossing the sympathy card for that. Screw them. Let him suffer while our justice system muddles along....it'll let them finish the special level of hell that's reserved for him.

And yes, trying to blame the whole Muslim community for the actions of a few militant idiots is wrong. We should've learned that with our Japanese-American citizens during WW2. So Hasan should fry. Not because of who he is, but because of what he did.
 
AND, they need to stop referring to that douchebag as the "alleged" gunman...

There was nothing alledged about it, he was caught with weapon in hand, had dozens of credible first-hand eyewitnesses that placed him at the scene during the commission of his chicken-sh!t murder spree...

Nothing alledged about it.
 
Damn good post, Butters !!

Altho, you will get a lot of flak about it. There are those on this forum who really believe in racial profiling,
and because his name is Hasan and because he is a Muslim is good enough for them to pronounce sentence.

Charles
Muslim extremists have no place in the US Army. Muslim extremists abuse goats and hate women.
 
I'm probably as disdainful of PC as anyone here, but I also know that it wasn't PC that killed those people. Hasan did.

No not directly, but certainly indirectly, that is if we agree on what the definition of PC is.

From Wiki.....

Political correctness is a term denoting language, ideas, policies, and behavior seen as seeking to minimize social offense in gender, racial, cultural, sexual orientation, handicap, and age-related contexts.

That is exactly what those in the army were doing in turning a blind eye to the rantings and behavior of this cowardly traitor. He should have been thrown out of the military long ago!

I'm not condemning the entire group of American Muslims, I only condemn those who commit and/or condone acts of terrorism. You can call Hasan anything you care to, makes no difference to me. I recognize him for what he is, an Islamic, extremist, jihadist, murdering, terrorist!

TO
 
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Yeah, now the news is blaming the military (all branches!!) for not recognizing the signs sooner and doing something about him. Sure. If they'd moved on him before he wigged out, the Army would've been blasted for being racist, discriminating, intolerant, profiling warmongering dirtbags....I frikkin hate the media these days.
 
Yeah, now the news is blaming the military (all branches!!) for not recognizing the signs sooner and doing something about him. Sure. If they'd moved on him before he wigged out, the Army would've been blasted for being racist, discriminating, intolerant, profiling warmongering dirtbags....I frikkin hate the media these days.

Very true, it really is a no win situation. **** him, try him and then hang him.
 
no trial send him to the IDF, they would take him out into the unknown and be rid of him

why is this anything surprising to us guys - media involvement and comment
 
TO and Ralph Peters have it right. PC is a major problem in this country as well as probably others. There are undoubtedly many people in the US who are Muslims and good citizens but every Muslim in our military should be kept an eye on. Not nearly as serious as Fort Hood but Bob Griese was suspended for one week recently by his network for quipping when a Latino race car driver, I think, missed an interview, "that he was out for a taco." PC run amok.
 
do you think this low life cares ? he has it in his mind he is going into the after life to see friends and babes' too bad sucka your god/eternal afterlife does not exist !
 
do you think this low life cares ? he has it in his mind he is going into the after life to see friends and babes' too bad sucka your god/eternal afterlife does not exist !

From what my brother told me in his Islamic World class, they really aren't promised virgins, they're promised raisins. The actual translation from the Koran means raisins, to signify not going hungry.

Either way, I hope they miss his veins doing the lethal injection, so he'll have a few more minutes of agony.
 

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