Future

Discussion in 'Painting Questions, Tutorials and Guidebooks' started by Sweb, May 16, 2009.

  1. Sweb

    Sweb Member

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    I'm curious. Why are modelers using it?
     
  2. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    The liquid is a kind of gloss cote.It is offered with bottles of huge capacity ( a half of a liter or a liter) Comparing this to the small bottle or a can of gloss cote ( 14ml ) of firms that offer them to modellers, it is a huge amount of gloss varnish.What is more its price is acceptable taking that one bottle of Future is enough for long time I mean many models.
    The Future is used by modellers for making surfaces of a model smooth because decals can stick better to the kind of a groundwork ( basis ).Also it causes getting "glass" very clear.
     
  3. Sweb

    Sweb Member

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    Thanks. I've never heard of its use before. But, this is the first time I've ever compared notes with other modelers, too. So, when future is used to provide a smooth surface for decal adherence what is the next process to return the model to the scale lusterless finish?
     
  4. Colin1

    Colin1 Active Member

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    There is or was a similar product (in the UK at least) called Klear, it's pretty versatile,

    if you coat a model in it, it will conceal the edges of decals better, esp where it's difficult to cut the unwanted decal base out (buzz numbers on the tails of US fighters springs to mind).

    A dark wash can be worked in to the panel line recesses to pick out the panels and the overflow wiped away; once on, the model can then be matted back to a normal finish, trapping the wash on top of the gloss and under the matt.

    Downside is that it can take a fair few days to properly cure, I've heard of some people making curing cabinets out of things like old aquariums to speed things up. No idea how that worked though.
     
  5. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #5 Wurger, May 16, 2009
    Last edited: May 16, 2009
    Oh...sorry I have forgotten that the gloss surface causes that it disappears the effect called decal silvering.I'm sure you have seen that many times on models.The effect looks like the transparent parts of a decal would be semi-transparent that shining in addition.

    The next step depends on a modeller.Or it is applied the next layer of Future and / or the matt cote as the last layer, both when decals are dry of course..The next gloss cote is usually added when a modeller wants to make the weathering.It protects decals against damages if something went wrong.
     
  6. Sweb

    Sweb Member

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    I'm familiar with both Klear and Future as acrylic floor finishes. They are fairly viscous. I imagine they are thinned and applied with an airbrush?
     
  7. lesofprimus

    lesofprimus Active Member

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    I do not thin my Future when I spray it...
     
  8. Thorlifter

    Thorlifter Well-Known Member

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    using it for decals is what I have always heard it used for.
     
  9. Maglar

    Maglar Active Member

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    I use it for decals and also a nice layer between my primary coat and weathering. I paint and weather in acrylic so I dont want my washes ripping into the main paint job. Its good for everything!
     
  10. Sweb

    Sweb Member

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    I've never used anything other than paint. I noticed on some of the builds here and elsewhere that the finishes are very stippled. The paint is applied way too thick causing a texture. That shouldn't happen. That's also when decals won't lay down because they dry with air beneath them (silvering) trapped in the texture. Decal softeners can take care of some of that but the finishes should be much smoother. Laying them on as washes rather than one heavy coat will leave them smooth enough for a decal softener, if needed, to conform the decals. Haven't needed any special surface conditioner for decals yet. I do slice away all the clear decal flash, though. The methods of finishing I've been seeing leave a thicker finish on the models than the genuine articles have on them and if it isn't dead-smooth it just doesn't look right. I'm thinking many aren't thinning enough causing a miniature knock-down look on the models. Airbrushes will produce that look quite readily if viscosities aren't reduced. Anyone else notice close-up shots show a very textured, grainy finish? Future or Klear makes it pop out even more visibly.
     
  11. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Future is another item I have never used....I prefer to use Gunze Sangyo Acrylic Gloss and flat for my finishes...

    Gloss, decals, Gloss and 1,2 or 3 coats of flat depending on the finish. i always seal my decals with gloss to ensure that the flat finish is even overall.
    Sometimes without the second gloss you will get a different sheen of finish on the decals to the surrounding surface.

    Airbrushing paints or finishes is all about getting the mix, flow and air right to get the right application.

    ...Practice is the key!
     
  12. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    #12 Airframes, May 17, 2009
    Last edited: May 17, 2009
    I'll echo Wayne there. It's only in the last couple of years that I've started using Future (Klear is the name used in UK and some other countries, for the same product). I started using it as I could no longer obtain the usual clear varnish I used to use, and it is basically a clear acrylic varnish anyway. To obtain a true gloss finish, especially with an airbrush, requires more than one coat, but it is thin enough to spray from the bottle.
    The main advantages are it's low price per ml compared to 'modelling' products - a large bottle is around £2 (approx $3.50 US) compared to the same, or more, for a very small bottle of 'modelling' varnish - and it's ability to be applied by paint brush and dry without brush marks.
    Another use, much favoured by many modellers, is for giving a sparkling, clear appearance to transparent parts. I admit, I've only used it this way on a couple of occassions, and it has been fine. It can also be used for repairs to clear parts which have been scratched, or affected by adhesive; once the damage has been polished, an application of Future makes it like new.
    One of the big disadvantges when used in modelling is it's ability to attract, and trap, tiny dust particles, which only become evident when the Future has dried.
    I must admit that, although it is a suoer product, and dosen't mask or 'clog' fine detail, even after a number of coats, I am considering using a different product as a gloss coat, mainly because of the dust issue, and the sometimes patchy effect caused by temperature variations during drying. As a lot of my modelling products are now obtained via mail order, something that, in general, is relatively recent for me, I might as well order a varnish when ordering other products.
    However, as a 'quick fix' for touch-ups etc, Future/Klear will still be in my paints rack. Also, I find it excellent for making various matt, semi matt and semi gloss clear finishes, just by adding a flatting agent as required. This dries, and sprays clear, without yellowing (to date anyway!), which is a big advantage over some commercially available matt finsihes, particularly in the ability to vary the surface sheen, even down to full matt.
    Finally, for those really tricky joints with clear parts, I find that Future can be used in some instances, and certainly as a 'second string', where a thin run of the liquid around a joint will definitely seal and hold the already fixed part.
    I recently knocked over a new bottle of Klear and, having cleaned up the mess, thought I'd removed all traces. That is, until I went to move a 'desk tidy' a couple of days later, and found it was stuck fast to the desk!
     
  13. Sweb

    Sweb Member

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    Roger on practice being key! I can definitely see a use for the clear acrylic on the clear parts. I remember early kits with clear parts so doggone thick they were disappointing so I'd take to task the odious job of thinning them out (hollowing) and with successive grades of paper and compound ultimately get them visually clear again with a final buffing with toothpaste. Then, I made a vacu-form and the business of thinning canopies was history. But, prior to the vacu-form the use of the clear acrylic would have shortened the job significantly.

    Some good advice. Thanks.
     
  14. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    You're welcom. A vac form machine - now what I could do with one of those!
     
  15. Sweb

    Sweb Member

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    Make one. Not as hard as you might think. It's an aluminum box with a hole in one side for inserting a vqcuum hose from a typical house vacuum cleaner or small shop vac. The top is a piece of perforated aluminum. A form is placed in the middle of the perf'd plate. Clear sheet (0.010" acetate) is laid on a music wire circle and heated until sagging in your oven. Then it is laid atop the form on the perf'd plate and the vacuum cleaner switched on. It sucks down over the form. Leave the vacuum on until the acetate is cool. Remove the acetate, trim to size, season to taste and serve.
     
  16. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    As a novice Future user, I can say it is the best modeling trick I have ever discovered. And it was this forum that encouraged me to use it. I had always read about it.

    * I read that modelers will "dip" their clear parts in Future. Unnecessary. Simply brush it on. Both sides. It self-levels and leaves your clear parts like shiny glass. And you can use super glue or plastic glue (sparingly) without the fogging effect. Makes for a MUCH greater bond for canopies/windows than other methodes, (e.g, Elmer's white glue, canopy glue).

    * Seal your final paint coat in it prior to decal work.

    * Use it in between coats to allow for masking without the fear of existing coats coming up with the tape.

    * Seal your decals in it in preparation for weathering/flat coats for homogeneity and ability to rub your decals during weathering application.

    * Use it to apply thick decals that are prone to silvering. You have to work relatively fast, but it sure works.

    * Application of medium/small parts with a brush is virtually indistinguishable from just brushing it on. It is self-leveling.

    * Clean up with (cool/warm) water first. Then a window cleaner. For an airbrush I always end up with paint thinner run through it to keep it lubricated.

    * I too don't thin it. But if you use it in an airbrush, periodically clean your gun. It will begin to clog up your needle/orifice if you don't. Especially if it is warm where you are spraying.

    * If you spray it, you might need more than 1 coat. Especially if you are using it to seal colors prior to masking.

    * Once applied, your paint/decal work is virtually indestructable.

    * Can be mixed with flat acrylic clear coat paint to make it 'less' glossy.

    * If it first appears to be mottled, let it dry. It will likely level out. If it doesn't and you "glooped it on" someplace, just take a cotton swab with window cleaner, rub it down level, and reapply. Viola'!

    * Cheaper than dirt.

    Cons -

    * Becomes thick as it drys (can become a pain if you don't clean your brush/gun)

    * Does take some time to properly dry (you must be patient)

    * Not sure if it ultimately yellows with age. I have read anything about it, but alway wonder.

    * Bottle design is prone to being knocked over (I'm really reaching for the cons here people)

    Like I say, best damn trick I have been made aware of.
     
  17. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Nice summary Matt. You're right about trying to find negatives regarding Future, and spot on about the ability to knock over the bottle! I eventually freed the stuck 'desk tidy', but at least I now have a supremely shiny desk!
     
  18. Sweb

    Sweb Member

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    Like I might have mentioned previously I've never used it. Not having done so but having already worked out the do's/don't's of start-finish building including marking adherence I probably won't other than to experiment with on glazings. Old dog I suppose but to my thinking several coats of varying finishes becomes quite a build-up of material for small scale models and from some of the finished models I've seen depicted the build-up is readily apparent and quite textured due to a lack of economy and reduction. On my quarter-scale flying birds I use just a wash primer and an economy of color to do the job complete with painted markings. Decals are available but in that scale painting them isn't difficult. I can see using the product under decals in real time (simultaneous application) with a judicious eye on removing the excess squeeze out which I will try. Who knows? Maybe an old dog can learn some tricks.

    Note to self: Transfer a small amount to a more stable bottle.
     
  19. 109ROAMING

    109ROAMING Active Member

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    Good advice/info here guys :thumbleft:

    Terry when you sat 'flatting agent' to make a matt finish What is that? I'm quite interested because I recently took a visit to the LHS and found that Humbrol do a 'Clear matt' finish product for $5 for a rather small bottle .Do you recommend against buying this?
     
  20. Sweb

    Sweb Member

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    Flattening agent, which I have used in acrylic 2-part systems, is a crystalline additive. It is a special silicon micro crystal powder (usually dispersed in a vehicle) that has been exposed to a paraffin. During cure the silicon crystals are borne to the surface of the finish due to the wax and arrange themselves in random (patternless) that is microscopically rough, though smooth to the touch. In this arrangement there is no common refractory plane but rather a plane that is broken up causing light to reflect omni-directionally rather than unilaterally. The result is a lusterless look varying with the amount of agent used.
     
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