Fw-190A9 JG301
- Thread starter Clave
- Start date
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Great Start Clave!
Ok first simple improvements I recommend are, increase the size of the Werk Nummer 206085, thicken up the Hakenkreuz national marking on the tail.
lift the white 2 slightly to horizontal panel line immediately above the number, thicken the number and match it to 2 of white 21.
Have included a scan of 2 from D-9 white 12 of 5/JG301 decal sheet which is the same.
Make the Yellow band a bit wider.
While the red band is parallel on White 21. I would appreciate Erich's call on whether we go parallel or remain following the tail join line?
I'm sure from previous posts that Erich has, or access to other unpublished photo's that would hopefully give us a confirmed angled or parallel line for the red band or at the least a positive swing one way or the other.
Ok first simple improvements I recommend are, increase the size of the Werk Nummer 206085, thicken up the Hakenkreuz national marking on the tail.
lift the white 2 slightly to horizontal panel line immediately above the number, thicken the number and match it to 2 of white 21.
Have included a scan of 2 from D-9 white 12 of 5/JG301 decal sheet which is the same.
Make the Yellow band a bit wider.
While the red band is parallel on White 21. I would appreciate Erich's call on whether we go parallel or remain following the tail join line?
I'm sure from previous posts that Erich has, or access to other unpublished photo's that would hopefully give us a confirmed angled or parallel line for the red band or at the least a positive swing one way or the other.
Attachments
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Freakin awesome Clave.......
Looking great so far!
Erich
the old Sage
Clave may you be blessed with many voluptous and well endowed women in your life !! 
yes white 2 needs to be moved up and the red horizontal gruppe band needs to be moved up. I would suggest omitting the yellow band under the engine cowling as well. I only say this if you are representing my cousins Weiße 2 in November of 44. After the destruction of that Fw 190A-9 and his death the a/c was replaced by another A-9, white 2 so who knows what it may have looked like. As stated before JG 301 used some pretty whacky type camo's that appeared to be sections of 3 a/c put together at a time when in reality the ground crews in my opinion were given to much freedom with paints and an airbrush, the later in thew ar, especially during 1945 the brown-violet and bright greens which are really dark in contrast are going to come into play - all of this for ground concealment.
E ~
yes white 2 needs to be moved up and the red horizontal gruppe band needs to be moved up. I would suggest omitting the yellow band under the engine cowling as well. I only say this if you are representing my cousins Weiße 2 in November of 44. After the destruction of that Fw 190A-9 and his death the a/c was replaced by another A-9, white 2 so who knows what it may have looked like. As stated before JG 301 used some pretty whacky type camo's that appeared to be sections of 3 a/c put together at a time when in reality the ground crews in my opinion were given to much freedom with paints and an airbrush, the later in thew ar, especially during 1945 the brown-violet and bright greens which are really dark in contrast are going to come into play - all of this for ground concealment.
E ~
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Fantastic Clave!!!
- Thread starter
- #8
Clave
Senior Master Sergeant
I have internet and email back again, but I'll post here anyway as this seems to be attracting some interest
I have tweaked a few things, but there's probably more needs doing - I also went for an 'experimental' camo scheme - what do you think?
I have tweaked a few things, but there's probably more needs doing - I also went for an 'experimental' camo scheme - what do you think?
Attachments
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Frickin badass Clave...
Erich
the old Sage
yeah have to agree with Les on that, bitchin man, move that white 2 up just a little and I think you have yourself a 5./JG 301 machine, or you can re-colour the white and make it blue for a 8./JG 301 A-8
like I said JG 301 did some pretty interesting camo schemes with their A-8 and A-9's, the Dora-9's were standard but will say through photo evidence seemed to carry a different camo scheme from JG 2's, JG 54 and JG 26 Doras. They were much greener especially along the motor engine cowling.
I feel a JG 301 A-8/R2 in the works................who agrees with me ? you better or I'll let my avatar rip your nutz off ! I need more JG 301 fixes like this ..............
like I said JG 301 did some pretty interesting camo schemes with their A-8 and A-9's, the Dora-9's were standard but will say through photo evidence seemed to carry a different camo scheme from JG 2's, JG 54 and JG 26 Doras. They were much greener especially along the motor engine cowling.
I feel a JG 301 A-8/R2 in the works................who agrees with me ? you better or I'll let my avatar rip your nutz off ! I need more JG 301 fixes like this ..............
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Erich, I think we want to try and get ur cousins 190 figured out perfectly before movin on to another crate.....
Dont u agree????
Dont u agree????
Erich
the old Sage
yes I know man just trying to poke a bit wee fun. Les there are at least 5-6 different variations I can think of from outboard guns whether to have them or not, a blown canopy or not, wooden prop or not though that would be hard to tell on a side fuselage profile, and of course is the camo dark and in greys or green-greys with a bit of brown-violet, or very light standard autumn simplicity darker grey over the top of the fuselage spine and motor housing ? spots or light striations ........... yeah it's tough to work out without a pic, you can tell from Reschkes own book the pics in there and you will scratch your head
E `
E `
- Thread starter
- #13
Clave
Senior Master Sergeant
Just for the record - do you think the '2' should move up even higher?
Also - I realised the red and yellow bands are different widths now - my mistake which I will fix next time - but for now I shall sleep...
Also - I realised the red and yellow bands are different widths now - my mistake which I will fix next time - but for now I shall sleep...
Good stuff Clave...maybe rather than move the 2, stretch it up just a little bit.
Once you widen the Red band, you may need to compensate with a bit more to the yellow band, the bands in theory were to be 450mm wide, but this was not always the case.Allow them to be parallel for the next change.
What is your feeling on parallel bands Erich?
C'mon Erich, I provided Clave with some basics to get the ball rolling,we need your "best guess", I know where your coming from with all the possible variations and without a photo we're flying blind but with a couple of profiles giving us some options we will at least honour your cousin's memory with some great probabilities or possibilities...when the modelling starts!
So what have we got, thinking out loud now, most likely Black national markings, white 2 is confirmed as well as style.Werk nummer is pretty good in size.
RV bands, Yellow IS parallel, IS Red? or angled best possibility.
Camo.... now here is the snag, maybe...74/75/76, 75/83/76, or as you've said some wacky combinations...Claves experimental is certainly different.
If Focke Wulf started painting D-9's in 75/83/76 down the road at Sorau what is the likely hood of A-9's the same or are they maybe using up remaining 74 stocks? There are 6 W.Nr. blocks for Cottbus built A-9's even though we don't have much photo reference, I would like to hope there is SOME standardization somewhere amongst the blocks.
Next point ,the canopy Early D-9's Flat canopy, A-9's are said to be using the Blown/ bulged canopy, but when and what block or blocks of the 6 groups was it phased in, damn so many possibilities. (You're right again Erich)
W.Nr. 205998 has a flat canopy, second last of block 205901-205999.
206085 is the 54th aircraft of the last Block (206031-206200)Now there are 5 other serial No blocks preceding the above series beginning in Sept. 44 even if all the other aircraft blocks were or were not built, a number of aircraft must have been completed, I think (hopefully) that by the time 206085 was built that the Blown canopy (shown on Red 22) was the standard rather than the flat style canopy. Does this thinking fit?
Chip in with your comments Guys, so we can keep Clave busy, with a grateful thanks of course!
Once you widen the Red band, you may need to compensate with a bit more to the yellow band, the bands in theory were to be 450mm wide, but this was not always the case.Allow them to be parallel for the next change.
What is your feeling on parallel bands Erich?
C'mon Erich, I provided Clave with some basics to get the ball rolling,we need your "best guess", I know where your coming from with all the possible variations and without a photo we're flying blind but with a couple of profiles giving us some options we will at least honour your cousin's memory with some great probabilities or possibilities...when the modelling starts!
So what have we got, thinking out loud now, most likely Black national markings, white 2 is confirmed as well as style.Werk nummer is pretty good in size.
RV bands, Yellow IS parallel, IS Red? or angled best possibility.
Camo.... now here is the snag, maybe...74/75/76, 75/83/76, or as you've said some wacky combinations...Claves experimental is certainly different.
If Focke Wulf started painting D-9's in 75/83/76 down the road at Sorau what is the likely hood of A-9's the same or are they maybe using up remaining 74 stocks? There are 6 W.Nr. blocks for Cottbus built A-9's even though we don't have much photo reference, I would like to hope there is SOME standardization somewhere amongst the blocks.
Next point ,the canopy Early D-9's Flat canopy, A-9's are said to be using the Blown/ bulged canopy, but when and what block or blocks of the 6 groups was it phased in, damn so many possibilities. (You're right again Erich)
W.Nr. 205998 has a flat canopy, second last of block 205901-205999.
206085 is the 54th aircraft of the last Block (206031-206200)Now there are 5 other serial No blocks preceding the above series beginning in Sept. 44 even if all the other aircraft blocks were or were not built, a number of aircraft must have been completed, I think (hopefully) that by the time 206085 was built that the Blown canopy (shown on Red 22) was the standard rather than the flat style canopy. Does this thinking fit?
Chip in with your comments Guys, so we can keep Clave busy, with a grateful thanks of course!
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Good stuff Wayne..... Erich, if u could, post up some other pics of 5 Staffel kites....
- Thread starter
- #16
Clave
Senior Master Sergeant
I have found the RLM colours as RGB screen values, so I will play around with the combinations suggested next time - got some other fish to fry right now, but I will be back soon...
Erich
the old Sage
Wayne werke nummer means really nothing in this case about blown canopys or even outboard 2cm fit but that again was between pilot and ground crew. Guys I am awful reluctant to post any more pics of Fw 190's of JG 301 for the simple reason they will be used in a future work on the unit. I will include this I./JG 301 shot for all of you - Clave for the fuselage band fit and height of the white bar in this case
Attachments
- Thread starter
- #18
Clave
Senior Master Sergeant
- Thread starter
- #19
Clave
Senior Master Sergeant
I just noticed a major problem, and I will have to work on that.
Erich, great pic! and thanks for your reluctant posting. At first glance it looks like 961699? but can't be certain at all.
You are of course right about W.Nr. and some aircraft details, I'm simply trying to stimulate info that might give us direction.
Clave, certainly prefer the look of the earlier profile greys, the RGB values look way too dark. The stretched 2 looks better I think.
The right hand side of the Yellow band is about right take the other side back to its original position and widen the red to a similar proportion.
I think we have way too much tight mottle, take away maybe the bottom third of the mottle and soften up the remainder.
The Grey camo strip going up on the tail should be reduced to finish before the W.Nr. and reduced by about a third in thickness with some of the soft grey mottle on the top of the fin so the W.Nr is more legible.
I think the front third of the upper cowl would more likely be the lighter grey.
Thats all for now...
You are of course right about W.Nr. and some aircraft details, I'm simply trying to stimulate info that might give us direction.
Clave, certainly prefer the look of the earlier profile greys, the RGB values look way too dark. The stretched 2 looks better I think.
The right hand side of the Yellow band is about right take the other side back to its original position and widen the red to a similar proportion.
I think we have way too much tight mottle, take away maybe the bottom third of the mottle and soften up the remainder.
The Grey camo strip going up on the tail should be reduced to finish before the W.Nr. and reduced by about a third in thickness with some of the soft grey mottle on the top of the fin so the W.Nr is more legible.
I think the front third of the upper cowl would more likely be the lighter grey.
Thats all for now...
