Milos did you really want Nato and the US to get involved? It's ugly now and I can't immagine how ugly it would be if we got involved in a head to head punch out. I've been reading everything here and "both" sides make good points. But could this of been avoided If Russia did go to the UN(I know it's theatrics) and protest and give Georgia 48 hrs to knock it off, atleast give a chance for Nato and the US to slap Georgia upside the head before they reacted? Alot of people dead on both sides of this one. Hell I never heard of what was going on in SO before this, could Russia not of told the UN hey I'm recognizing SO as one of us like we(Europe) did to Kosovo, not too much bloodshed there.
Georgia and Russia at war.
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Milos Sijacki
Senior Airman
If Russia said-- We recognize SO as a part of Russia and Abkhazia as an independent state in its own right-- would UN and NATO go and accept that, because we are talking about Georgia not some sheethole in the Balkans like my country.
Milos Sijacki
Senior Airman
And for the final TIME, I'm not getting personal and I'm only mentioning Kosovo in order to compare the Georgian situation with what happened down there.
No, I would not like to see war between NATO, USA and Russia because then the entire world would perish in a big mushroom.
No, I would not like to see war between NATO, USA and Russia because then the entire world would perish in a big mushroom.
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
The Russians have won in all of their aims.
So what happens now...
Can the West deal with a very pro active Kremlin...They do have some more fish to fry...
So what happens now...
Can the West deal with a very pro active Kremlin...They do have some more fish to fry...
Hey Milos relax, this is conversation. No intent off slamming, Kosovo,Russia, Georgia,etc. Just shooting the breeze to get a little more knowledge from across the pond. Like I said I never heard about SO and the conflict that has been going on there. That's why I'm finding the different point of views pretty interesting...
Matt308
Glock Perfection
In contrast to that statement Milos, fear NATO and the US. They have such a rich history of destroying nation states and oppressive rule.
Okay but you said that the US and NATO responded in a weak manner, and I am asking you again how else should we have reacted?
If you think that was weak what do you think would have been a more stronger action? I think it was responded in the only way possible short of getting into a war that neither the US, NATO or Russia needs.
In todays world Russia is still a strong military, but I do not think they can defeat the combined forces of the US and NATO and probably a slew of other nations that would join in because of there relations with Russia. In the end all sides would be hurting and probably Russia even more.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Tim, I liked your post because that too was my reaction...specifically that Russian was suffering from these Islamofascists blowing their civilians up too. However, I recently read that the apartment building destruction was now deemed to have been accomplished by Russian intelligence. I don't profess to know the truth, and certainly there are enough US wackos that believe the US intelligence blew up the buildings on 9/11, but makes you wonder. Russia has committed worse attrocities against its own civilians.
As the saying goes, you can only cry wolf so many times before the village no longer believes a word you say.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Almost as bad as the dreaded UN!In contrast to that statement Milos, fear NATO and the US. They have such a rich history of destroying nation states and oppressive rule.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
That's an interesting comment. And contrary to every pro-russia post made to date.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Does anybody else find offense to this statement? The most innefectual organization on the planet is espoused to be able to solve issues such as this.
When will this utopian madness end.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
You beat me to it FlyboyJ. I was just looking up one of our past gems for exactly that reason. See above.
Only reason I brought up the issue of the UN which I know is basically useless in so many ways was that if Russia wanted to do this to really protect their "peacekeepers" without alternate motives they could of brouched the subject and let Georgia's "allies" call the dogs back. We did it with Iraq/Kuwait for example and when Iraq did not back down we went in and took care of business. I think Russia pulled a beauty on this issue.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Torch, I didn't post that because of your post.
The UN is an ugly reality of this world. I thought your post was spot on. Give 'em 24-48hrs and then kick the $hit out of them. But to defer the issue to the innefectual UN while shelling continues is like asking for an instant replay review while the game goes on.
The UN is an ugly reality of this world. I thought your post was spot on. Give 'em 24-48hrs and then kick the $hit out of them. But to defer the issue to the innefectual UN while shelling continues is like asking for an instant replay review while the game goes on.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Yup!
Hello D.A.I.G.,
I am sure that you do know what I am implying.
It is a very basic undertaking of any country or alliance to probe an opposing or neighboring political setup, alliances and their respective military capability.
It has become increasingly difficult to judge upon Russia's (Putin's) political ambitions in regards to "regain" certain former USSR territories and the actual or factual capability of the Russian Armed Forces.
The US and NATO are therefore most interested into analyzing the Georgian/Russian conflict in perspective to a likely Ukraine scenario and others. Chechnya has given a clear picture about Russia's ambitions, so has Serbia amongst others. The military aspect is recognized as a feature of "unknowns" in regards to capability, command structure and situational behavior on behalf of the Russian Forces.
Certain circles within the US and NATO forces have a very clear picture about the "ambitions" of Georgia's President and the imminent possibility of him willing to implement force to solve the SO conflict, due to the Georgian Army being trained and armed by the US and Blackwater as well as by other NATO detachments.
Now "using" a third party in order to probe onto a second party is nothing new, it actually happens every day on this planet.
It takes little for NATO and the US to "infiltrate" and manipulate the minds of people or governments such as that of Georgia. A 'small" and "unofficial" hint is enough to start of or even encourage this government to provoke an incident which is indeed very useful to gather information.
Bush and NATO where very fast and determined indeed in their reaction to stop an expanding conflict whilst gaining a lot of information out of it.
A very interesting feature about this conflict was the recognition of a functional command structure, the obedience and commitment factor of military ranks towards Moscow the deployment setup/planning and the political voicing/behavior of neighboring countries and UN member countries.
Simply said; indeed the Russian Armed Forces have changed by far since Chechnya, and the western UN members are seeking/accepting dispute settlements more and more through NATO and the US.
Regards
Kruska
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Man, how is it that such intelligent people fall into the conspiracy theory mindset.
So in your scenario, Kruska, the US dupes russia into showing its tactical hand. And russia is too stoopid to do anything other than react, reveal is most intimate strategic planning secrets and suffer world condemnation.
Nice try at villifying the US. I aint buying it. No more than I believe that the Jews are responsible for bringing down the World Trade Center Towers on 9/11. You are better than this Kruska.
So in your scenario, Kruska, the US dupes russia into showing its tactical hand. And russia is too stoopid to do anything other than react, reveal is most intimate strategic planning secrets and suffer world condemnation.
Nice try at villifying the US. I aint buying it. No more than I believe that the Jews are responsible for bringing down the World Trade Center Towers on 9/11. You are better than this Kruska.
JugBR
Staff Sergeant
Georgia´s women beach volley team defeated Russia by 2, 1
curiosity: both mens and womens georgiam beach volley teams are made by brazilian naturalized georgians !!!
take that bad bear !!!
... and you guys wasting time talking about american support to georgians... tsk tsk tsk... how abut the BRAZUCAS support huh ?
curiosity: both mens and womens georgiam beach volley teams are made by brazilian naturalized georgians !!!
take that bad bear !!!
... and you guys wasting time talking about american support to georgians... tsk tsk tsk... how abut the BRAZUCAS support huh ?
Come on Matt308, try to get of your one-sided track. This has nothing to do with conspiracies theories, or vilifying the US or NATO, but is a well known fact that occurs daily. Probably you might want to tell me that the Hainan incident was unprovoked by the US and China was soo stupid to show their response and capability.
It is conducted routinely, for example by provoked air space intrusions or more openly via military maneuvers. Or encourage Israel to strike at Iraq, Iran or others, before the US or NATO get themselves involved.
BTW, Russia did not bluntly strike back as you might suggest, but acted accordingly to a well ahead prepared plan – knowing about the Georgian ambitions.
When will people start to realize that there is no "unforeseen incident" or "unforeseen war"?? Why do countries spend billions of $$ in intelligence and arming themselves or others?? This world is a controlled world; controlled by a few countries and its respective leaders for their interests and anyone out of control or in contra to the ruling interest "Saddam" gets his butt kicked.
But before you kick butt, you should know who you kick and if the bastard might kick back.
Regards
Kruska
Ramirezzz
Senior Airman
where is the contradiction? Nobody denies there were targets in "continental" Georgia being bombed by Russian planes.
