Georgia and Russia at war.

[SoD Stitch]

And you are?

Just as you are entitled to state you opinions in posts, he is as well. Dont forget that...

Thanks, DA.

I don't pretend to be an expert, but I do pay attention to international news, particularly the BBC, which is usually impartial, and consider myself an "informed" listener reader; I certainly don't know everything about international relations (even though I do have a BA in International Relations from a California State University), but I do try and keep an open mind, and attempt to keep myself informed on world events. For what it's worth, I also subscribe to Foreign Affairs, so I am not completely uninformed on world events.

Matt - I normally respect you and your opinions and, the majority of the time, I actually agree with you. However, I think you might have been a little harsh this time; I don't normally insult members on this board, and I don't think you should start, either. You may be right, I may not be capable or qualified of making posts on this "ancient conflict", but please don't insult my intelligence again. Thank you.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Matt - I normally respect you and your opinions and, the majority of the time, I actually agree with you. However, I think you might have been a little harsh this time; I don't normally insult members on this board, and I don't think you should start, either. You may be right, I may not be capable or qualified of making posts on this "ancient conflict", but please don't insult my intelligence again. Thank you.

Woh Woh hey slow down there. Go back and read his post. It was sarcasm. He was actually siding with you. That post was in response to what Ramirezzz said to you. Go back and read it again.

It was like a "You should know better to post about this stuff, you are an ignorant American!" That was it...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

US plans aid to Georgia as Russia rolls into city

By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA and MATTI FRIEDMAN, Associated Press Writer
19 minutes ago



OUTSIDE GORI, Georgia - Russian troops and paramilitaries rolled into the strategic Georgian city of Gori on Wednesday, apparently violating a truce designed to end the conflict that has uprooted tens of thousands and scarred the Georgian landscape.

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In Washington, President Bush said the United States planned a massive humanitarian effort involving American ships and aircraft, includiung a C-17 military cargo plane loaded with supplies that landed on Wednesday.

He said Russia must ensure that "all lines of communication and transport, including seaports, roads and airports," remain open to let deliveries and civilians through.

Georgian officials said Gori, a central hub on Georgia's main east-west highway, was looted and bombed by the Russians before they left later in the day and camped nearby.

Moscow denied the accusations, but it appeared to be on a technicality: a BBC reporter in Gori reported that Russians tanks were in the streets as their South Ossetian separatist allies seized Georgian cars, looted Georgian homes and then set some homes ablaze.

"Russia has treacherously broken its word," Georgia's Security Council chief Alexander Lomaia said Wednesday in Tbilisi, the capital.

An AP reporter saw dozens of trucks and armored vehicles leaving Gori, roaring southeast. Soldiers waved at journalists and one soldier jokingly shouted to a photographer: "Come with us, beauty, we're going to Tbilisi!"

But the convoy turned north and left the highway about an hour's drive from the Georgian capital, and set up camp a mile off the road. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Russian troops were near Gori to secure weapons left behind by the Georgians.

To the west, Russian-backed Abkhazian separatists pushed Georgian troops out of Abkhazia and even moved into Georgian territory itself, defiantly planting a flag over the Inguri River and laughing that retreating Georgians had received "American training in running away."

The developments came less than 12 hours after Georgia's president said he accepted a cease-fire plan brokered by France. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Tuesday that Russia was halting military action because Georgia had paid enough for its attack last Thursday on South Ossetia.

Bush said he was skeptical that Moscow was honoring the cease-fire.

"To begin to repair the damage to its relations with the United States, Europe and other nations and to begin restoring its place in the world, Russia must keep its word and act to end this crisis," Bush said.

The EU peace plan calls for both sides to retreat to the positions they held prior to the outbreak of fighting late Thursday. That phrasing apparently would allow Georgian forces to return to the positions they held in South Ossetia and Abkhazia and clearly obliges Russia to leave all parts of Georgia except South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili criticized Western nations for failing to help Georgia, a U.S. ally that has been seeking NATO membership.

"I feel that they are partly to blame," he said Wednesday. "Not only those who commit atrocities are responsible ... but so are those who fail to react. In a way, Russians are fighting a proxy war with the West through us."

Russian at first denied that tanks were even in Gori but video footage proved otherwise.

About 50 Russian tanks entered Gori in the morning, according to Lomaia. The city of 50,000 lies 15 miles south of South Ossetia, where much of the fighting has taken place.

Some of the Russian units that later left to camp outside the city were camouflaged with foliage. The convoy was mainly support vehicles, including ambulances, although there were a few heavy cannons. There were about 100 combat troops and another 100 medics, drivers and other support personnel.

About six miles away from the camp, about 80 well-equipped Georgian soldiers were forming what appeared to be a new frontline, armed with pistols, shoulder-launched anti-tank rockets and Kalashnikovs.

Sporadic clashes continued in South Ossetia where Russians responded to Georgian snipers.

Georgia borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia and was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union. Russia has handed out passports to most in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and stationed peacekeepers in both regions since the early 1990s. Georgia wants the Russian peacekeepers out, but Medvedev has insisted they stay.

Russia's Lavrov lashed back after Bush's comments Wednesday, calling Georgia's leadership "a special project of the United States. And we understand that the United States is worried about its project."

He was quoted by Russian news agencies as saying that at some point, the United States will have to choose: "either support for a virtual project, or real partnership on issues that really demand collective action," referring to U.S. cooperation with Russia in the U.N. Security Council on Iran and other world tension spots.

Meanwhile, Georgia's security chief also said Russian forces targeted three Georgian Coast Guard boats in the Black Sea port of Poti, and Georgian television showed boats ablaze in the harbor.

Bush expressed concern that Russian forces have entered and taken positions in Poti, that Russian armored vehicles are blocking access to that port, and that Russia is blowing up Georgian vessels.

Lavrov denied that Russian troops were anywhere near the city.

In the west, Georgian troops acknowledged Wednesday they had completely pulled out of a small section of Abkhazia they had controlled.

"This is Abkhazian land," one separatist told an AP reporter over the Inguri River, saying they were laying claim to historical Abkhazian territory.

The fighters had moved across a thin slice of land dotted with Georgian villages.

"The border has been along this river for 1,000 years," separatist official Ruslan Kishmaria told the AP on Wednesday. He said Georgia would have to accept the new border.

Nogovitsyn admitted Wednesday that Russian peacekeepers had disarmed Georgian troops in Kodori — the same peacekeepers that Georgia wants withdrawn.

Abkhazia lies close to the heart of many Russians. Its Black Sea coast was a favorite vacation spot in Soviet times and the province is just down the coast from Sochi, the Russian resort that will host the 2014 Olympics.

For several days, Russian troops held the western town of Zugdidi near Abkhazia, controlling the region's main highway. An AP reporter saw a convoy of 13 Russian tanks and armored personnel carriers in Zugdidi's outskirts Wednesday. Later in the day, Georgian officials said the Russians pulled out of Zugdidi.

"They just don't want freedom, and that's why they want to stamp on Georgia and destroy it," he declared to thousands at a jam-packed square in Tbilisi.

Leaders of five former Soviet bloc states — Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Ukraine — also appeared at the rally and spoke out against Russian domination.

Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko issued a decree Wednesday saying that Russian navy ships deployed to the Georgian coast will need authorization to return to the navy base Russia leases from Ukraine.

The World Food Program sent 34 tons of high-energy biscuits Wednesday help the tens of thousands uprooted by the fighting.

Russia has accused Georgia of killing more than 2,000 people, mostly civilians, in South Ossetia. The claim couldn't be independently confirmed, but witnesses who fled the area over the weekend said hundreds had died.

Georgia says at least 175 Georgians have died in Russian air and ground attacks.

The Russia-Georgia dispute also reached the international courts, with the Georgian security council saying it had sued Russia for alleged ethnic cleansing.

The rights group Human Rights Watch said Wednesday it has witnessed South Ossetian fighters looting ethnic Georgians' houses and has recorded multiple accounts of Georgian militias intimidating ethnic Ossetians. The report was important independent confirmation of the claims by each side in the Russia-Georgia conflict.

At the Beijing Olympics, Georgian women rallied Wednesday to beat their Russian counterparts in beach volleyball, the first head-to-head clash of the two nations.

"Russia and Georgia are actually friends. People are friends," said the Georgian beach volleyball team leader, Levan Akhtulediani. "But you know, it's not, in the 21st century, to bomb a neighbor country, it's not a good idea."

"I say once again, its better to compete on the field rather than outside the field," he added.
US plans aid to Georgia as Russia rolls into city - Yahoo! News

 

[SoD Stitch]

Woh Woh hey slow down there. Go back and read his post. It was sarcasm. He was actually siding with you. That post was in response to what Ramirezzz said to you. Go back and read it again.

It was like a "You should know better to post about this stuff, you are an ignorant American!" That was it...

Oops! Sry . . . . guess I took it a little too personally . . . . Boy, do I feel stupid!

I get it now. Very tongue in cheek, Matt; I like it. Sometimes I can't "read between the lines". I guess quotation marks or something would've been too obvious . . . . .

 

[Matt308]

Matt - I normally respect you and your opinions and, the majority of the time, I actually agree with you. However, I think you might have been a little harsh this time; I don't normally insult members on this board, and I don't think you should start, either. You may be right, I may not be capable or qualified of making posts on this "ancient conflict", but please don't insult my intelligence again. Thank you.

SoD, I was being facetious (see rolling of eyes). I was interpreting Ramirezzz' words. Even Ramerezzz got it. He insulted you. I was coming to your defense dummy. And that was the final straw. Your post has just further confirmed why I must stay out of this. I'm not gonna lose forum member friends over this stupid thread.

Enjoy.

 

[Matt308]

Just now saw your reply, SoD. Hakuna Matada. I wouldn't have responded if I had saw it.

 

[Torch]

Well it looks like Russia continues to twist the knife,so be it. Can you imagine if Russia plays nice with the west how far they would get?. Instead of invading they could of worked this a different way and could of been a diamond in the eye of the world. I can't believe that any country does not think that Russia is powerful to begin with. Yes they had a rough start to a "democracy" but how much cash was thrown at Russia to help it's "democracy" grow. I think Putin thinks he's another Stalin in the making. So Putin thinks Russia is powerful, so whats he afraid of a missle defense system which would be monitored by them. If your so powerful why are you afraid of the Ukraine? Poland?they will give you a tough fight. Russia is in a position to make a ton of money, why would you invade Georgia with such a vengence and have everybody look at you and say woohoo you invaded a poor country with overwhelming forces. I don't get it. Russia can have the world at their finger tips and everybody could play nice. Oh well history in the making.

 

[JugBR]

Well it looks like Russia continues to twist the knife,so be it. Can you imagine if Russia plays nice with the west how far they would get?. Instead of invading they could of worked this a different way and could of been a diamond in the eye of the world. I can't believe that any country does not think that Russia is powerful to begin with. Yes they had a rough start to a "democracy" but how much cash was thrown at Russia to help it's "democracy" grow. I think Putin thinks he's another Stalin in the making. So Putin thinks Russia is powerful, so whats he afraid of a missle defense system which would be monitored by them. If your so powerful why are you afraid of the Ukraine? Poland?they will give you a tough fight. Russia is in a position to make a ton of money, why would you invade Georgia with such a vengence and have everybody look at you and say woohoo you invaded a poor country with overwhelming forces. I don't get it. Russia can have the world at their finger tips and everybody could play nice. Oh well history in the making.

torch, you can throw all the cash in the world but if the country havent an eficient leadership it is useless.

i believe russia improved a lot with putin, the cash throw in russia would be a investment in a huge market, since russia dont go back to economic crisis and supernatural inflation like in yeltsin times.

putin is a very controversial stateman, but as a president, i think he silently make russia improves their economy and also he is fighting against russian mafia.

i believe his background as kgb officer should make an image of discipline, but the real deal is that he is not comunist, he is a right wing russian nationalist. so, he dont wanna ussr go back or recover the lost republics(russia still the major land in the world, and full of natural resources), he wants to defend russia.

besides all his controversial biography, very know by many people here in west. i think he is the right man in the right time, because russia needs a iron fist to combat the internal problems and keep the nation united.

my opinion is about what i read from russia last years in western and russian media. and i think for the worldwide investitors, russia is more attractive now than yealtsin times.

do you remember ? clinton era ? yeltisin drink some galons of vodka and said he wanted to bomb usa with nukes ? remember the reaction of clinton ? almost laughting so terrible drunk was yeltsin...

im for putin, im a "putinist"

 

[Ramirezzz]

did I read this right on some news thing this morn ? Bushy is sending aide to Georgia ?

humanitarian aide, C-17s've already landed yesterday in Tbilisi

 

[Ramirezzz]

Oops! Sry . . . . guess I took it a little too personally . . . . Boy, do I feel stupid!

I get it now. Very tongue in cheek, Matt; I like it. Sometimes I can't "read between the lines". I guess quotation marks or something would've been too obvious . . . . .

Ok SoD Stitch sorry if you've misunderstood me but I never insulted you and never intended to do so. What I want to say is that this (indeed ancient) conflict has very deep roots just as every caucasian conflict. To understand what's going on there we must have a whole retrospective picture and not base our opinion on some hasty comments from some "experts" . That was my idea. No offence here indeed.

 

[javlin]

The declaration from Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov came simultaneously with the announcement that Russian President Dmitry Medvedev was meeting in the Kremlin with the leaders of Georgia's two separatist provinces.

"One can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity because, I believe, it is impossible to persuade South Ossetia and Abkhazia to agree with the logic that they can be forced back into the Georgian state," Lavrov told reporters.

FOXNews.com - Georgia: Explosions Heard in Gori as Russian Forces Enter - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

Sounds like Good Ole Russia ready to go the rest of the way and take over Georgia probably and put in a puppet guberment.Cease fire is quite shakey and with comments buy Russian leaders like that to the press only leads one to believe they want control.Didn't BP sink a ton of money in Russia and pipline infrastucture only to be told "it's ours now get out"this happened in the last 12 months I think?

 

[Ramirezzz]

"One can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity because, I believe, it is impossible to persuade South Ossetia and Abkhazia to agree with the logic that they can be forced back into the Georgian state," Lavrov told reporters.
Sounds like Good Ole Russia ready to go the rest of the way and take over Georgia probably

so why they stopped their actions in Georgia when they could relatevely easy take Tbilisi?

 

[javlin]

The strategically located city is 15 miles south of South Ossetia, the separatist region where Russian and Georgian forces fought a brutal five-day battle. Russian troops entered Gori on Wednesday, after the two sides signed the cease-fire that called for their forces to pull back to the positions they held before the fighting started.

Georgia early Thursday said the Russians were leaving the city, but later alleged they were bringing in additional troops. Georgian government officials who had gone into the city for a possible handover left unexpectedly around midday, followed by a confrontation at a Russian checkpoint on Gori's outskirts that ended when Russian tanks sped toward the area and Georgian police forces retreated
FOXNews.com - Georgia: Explosions Heard in Gori as Russian Forces Enter - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

Article makes it sound like Russia continued to move in troops under cease-fire then you here a statement like that.

 

[Ramirezzz]

Georgia early Thursday said the Russians were leaving the city, but later alleged they were bringing in additional troops. Georgian government officials who had gone into the city for a possible handover left unexpectedly around midday, followed by a confrontation at a Russian checkpoint on Gori's outskirts that ended when Russian tanks sped toward the area and Georgian police forces retreated


Article makes it sound like Russia continued to move in troops under cease-fire then you here a statement like that.

a Georgian statement, you mean. Georgians told three or four times that Gori was captured by the Russians . During the whole war the CNN has supported every Georgian claim without any confirmation.
Russians actually never entered that city before cease-fire was signed. They advanced some 12 kilometers away and stopped there. Later they destroyed the ammunition stockpile at the abandoned Georgian military base and searched for any city autorities to negotiate, what was later confirmed even by Georgians, but never by the CNN. At the same time Saakasvhili told us the horrifying stories about the russian tanks encircling Tbilisi.
CNN and Georgia told us about russian troops in Cenaki and Poti, but even local bloggers didn't confirm that information.

 

[Ramirezzz]

Georgia: Russian tanks in Gori to help withdrawal - CNN.com

now look, even the CNN has denied that

 

[Pisis]

1968 Czechoslovakia - 2008 Georgia.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

1968 Czechoslovakia - 2008 Georgia.

I don't see it the same way - the 1968 invasion was a blatant aggression by the Soviet Union to keep one of its satellites in place. Czechosloviakia did nothing but bring on reforms that probably would of seen her leave the iron curtain.

Georgia acted first in this incident and that's been confirmed by all sides. It was just plain dumb to roll troops into South Ossetia and think Russia wasn't going to do anything about it.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Ok SoD Stitch sorry if you've misunderstood me but I never insulted you and never intended to do so. What I want to say is that this (indeed ancient) conflict has very deep roots just as every caucasian conflict. To understand what's going on there we must have a whole retrospective picture and not base our opinion on some hasty comments from some "experts" . That was my idea. No offence here indeed.

Dont you base your opinion on so called "experts" as well?

I mean I think the only people that can a true perspective on what is going on, are those that are there.

 

[Mitya]

This bloody massacre was conceived not by Russia, and not Georgia. She was conceived in the White House by the USA. Also it is not necessary to me to tell about democracy now. In 1999 NATOs (USA) bombed Yugoslavia. Bombed Belgrade, which in several hundreds kilometers from Kosovo. Bombed peace inhabitants. Though one somebody has told something against? No. The same establishment of democracy! Aha. Now. Russia warned, than unilateral acceptance of independence of Kosovo can end? Warned. Also receive now, that have made. You (West) have created dangerous precedent from Kosovo. There there were no citizens the USA. Simply Americans have decided to distract from internal scandals (Clinton and Monica) by destruction of Serbs. Georgia is necessary for America? Yes. As a platform for rockets and air bases. Now their purpose - Iran. Who can remind you owns southern Caspian sea? First Georgia, Ossetia, Abkhazia... So you and up to Murmansk will reach. Who pushed Georgia to war? The USA armed and trained its army almost 10 years. For what? For democracy? A horse-radish about two! As you has told Condomlisa Rise: Russia has too big stocks of resources in comparison with other countries. It is not fair. We correct this position. All your democracy. The USA it is possible to bomb Yugoslavia, it is possible for England бесчинствовть in Iraq. And Russia for protection of the citizens that it is impossible? And from what it? The west plays under double standards? Plays. Also receive now. To you it is fashionable. And too it is possible for us. Also what you will make? From G8 expel? In WTO do not let? Yes to us poh. Putin has told: Georgia will answer that she has killed the Russian peacemakers and Russifn citizens. Putin tells - Putin has made. To the Kremlin now on хер, that yours Кондомлиза and George mutter in Washington. In South Ossetia and Abkhazia there were some referenda. On which people has told, that does not want to be a part of Georgia. Why his opinion is not taken into account? Why the primordial ground of Serbs is taken away by Americans and given Albanians? That is why? And how Russia protects the citizens then bark?
Now about mass-media. Why CNN and the BBC deform the information? It refers to democracy? A freedom of speech? I have an opportunity both CNN, and BBC to look. Also that I see. The USA (South Ossetia) shows the staff destroyed Tchinval and gives out their that for Georgian Potu, Gori... It is democracy in operation?
The prime minister of Russia Vladimir Putin has accused the USA of cynicism and unwillingness to reach peace settlement in a zone of the conflict. " It is a pity, that some our partners do not help us, and try to prevent. I have in a kind and take the United States of America by the military - transport planes of a military contingent of Georgia from Iraq actually in a zone of the conflict ", - Putin at presidium of the government has declared. As he said, it " movement in the return side from settlement of a situation ".
" Surprises not cynicism of such politics, surprises scale of this cynicism. Surprises skill to give out white for black, black for white, skill dexterously to expose an aggressor as victims of aggression., as is known, that he has destroyed a little villages, it was necessary to hang up Saddam Husejna, certainly. And present Georgian governors who suddenly have simply wiped out 10 ossetic villages which tanks pressed children and old men who alive in sheds burnt peace citizens - these figures, certainly, need to be taken under protection " - Putin has declared.
However CNN for some reason cut out this moment: " And present Georgian governors who suddenly have simply wiped out 10 ossetic villages which tanks pressed children and old men who alive in sheds burnt peace citizens - these figures, certainly, it is necessary to take under protection ".
It is objectivity of illumination by free press?
Georgia has disconnected for the citizens the domain *.ru, the Russian telechannels. All have kept silent. If Russia has made too most would rise such say about defence freedom of speech. Tell still what not so.
Tell, than SuckAshvili differs from Milosevic, and Ossets and Abhazs - from Kosovan Albanians?
Why Serbia could be forced to the world with Albans by bombardments, and Georgia to force by bombardments to the world with Ossetia - it is impossible?

 

[Mitya]

Certificates from our rescuer:
" Our person from Ossetia Has returned. A muzzle green, though behind back Афган, the Chechen Republic two times.. Has drained in a bubble wiski and has remained sober.
About that there:
Such did not see. Abstracting from any nationalist definitions. That speak on a box and show are at all half... There Were to Tskhinvali mercenaries. Any creatures on pairs. Created something unimaginable.
Small children have jumped out to machines. Have allured them, have collected... Also have started to cut. Mothers have jumped out, have rushed. Him in a mouth began to thrust children's fragments of bodies and internal bodies. Than muzhiks and boys is more senior brought down without analysis. The others. Women, old men, children have tired outin Church and fire. At attempt to jump out shot. Forced young women..., and then cut on pieces. Alive.
Were knocked on cellars. Ossetic know many. People opened. At the best simply shot or stopped to a pomegranate. Children cut children on eyes at mothers. Mothers cut on eyes at children and old men. That muzhiks could not be entered, raked him or have cut off hands...
Gorgian peacemakers of ours on posts cut and finished Wounded, at a withdrawal from Tchinval, even prior to the beginning of bombardment.
It is a lot of still that.
The version, that one of overall objectives - was a task to destroy population S-O, proves to be true.
How all this will be used - nobody knows. Our losses are exact while nobody knows. Many simply yet have not found. Whether at rodents sit, whether... still understand. But from those who was on remote posts and from those who was on base in Tchinval a little who has remained. While confusion. Who in hospitals, who... Therefore figures are not present.
In forces of including losses it is not enough.
As it cynically would not sound, militarians will understand. Much below expected.
Civil... Them while too count. How many under blockages? How have already buried? Rodents how many have stolen? It is a lot of questions. Answers are not present. But the sounded figure 2000 raises the doubts.
The resume. All resulted in stories on TV, etc. the truth. Much still should be learned. And something we learn hardly.
Such affairs.
And still. Now works go on clearing of corpses of city. Because already position critical. Especially do not understand at all. Bury all together.
Here about coffins spoke... Do not wait for them. Whom family have identified, it yes. And so... A canvas and bleaching powder.
On war as on war. "
Who in it is guilty? Russia? The USA how many irrevocable credits for an establishment of such "democracy" have allocated? And? One more war on Caucas is not necessary for Russia. Simply someone in the White house has decided to check up us on порчность. Also have received. But yet all.
At you in the West people for which it is absolutely not important that has taken place with our country for last 15 years sit. To them the communism is unimportant, or for any amendment. By It any changes or curtseys are unimportant. To them you will not explain, that the country another. At them in a head plays body - Russia should be killed. All your songs about that you kind and fluffy all this appeared lie. The situation around of South Ossetia has shown the valid person of the West concerning Russia.
Know as operation of the Georgian army in Ossetia referred to? " The pure field ". And who now will answer for a genocide the osset? Yes who! Europe will keep silent in cloth, the USA the international laws and rules at all do not concern. If benefit is, cries at once begin: the United Nations! WTO! G8!...
And SuckAshvili too dandy. Addresses to the nation. To the nation as the president in English! You can To present to yourselves, what Bush has addressed to Americans in Spanish, for example? It how in general to name? To me on mind it comes only, that beforehand Planned the action directed on the western televiewer. I do not find other explanations.
I shall finish A.S. Pushkin's by verses (I shall not translate. For I can not. Read in Russian. So all Clearly):

КЛЕВЕТНИКАМ РОССИИ

О чем шумите вы, народные витии?
Зачем анафемой грозите вы России?
Что возмутило вас? волнения Литвы?
Оставьте: это спор славян между собою,
Домашний, старый спор, уж взвешенный судьбою,
Вопрос, которого не разрешите вы.

Уже давно между собою
Враждуют эти племена;
Не раз клонилась под грозою
То их, то наша сторона.
Кто устоит в неравном споре:
Кичливый лях, иль верный росс?
Славянские ль ручьи сольются в русском море?
Оно ль иссякнет? вот вопрос.

Оставьте нас: вы не читали
Сии кровавые скрижали;
Вам непонятна, вам чужда
Сия семейная вражда;
Для вас безмолвны Кремль и Прага;
Бессмысленно прельщает вас
Борьбы отчаянной отвага -
И ненавидите вы нас...

За что ж? ответствуйте: за то ли,
Что на развалинах пылающей Москвы
Мы не признали наглой воли
Того, под кем дрожали вы?
За то ль, что в бездну повалили
Мы тяготеющий над царствами кумир
И нашей кровью искупили
Европы вольность, честь и мир?..

Вы грозны на словах - попробуйте на деле!
Иль старый богатырь, покойный на постеле,
Не в силах завинтить свой измаильский штык?
Иль русского царя уже бессильно слово?

Иль нам с Европой спорить ново?
Иль русский от побед отвык?
Иль мало нас? Или от Перми до Тавриды,
От финских хладных скал до пламенной Колхиды,
От потрясенного Кремля
До стен недвижного Китая,
Стальной щетиною сверкая,
Не встанет русская земля?..
Так высылайте ж нам, витии,
Своих озлобленных сынов:
Есть место им в полях России,
Среди нечуждых им гробов.