Georgia and Russia at war.

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JugBR said:
a interesting text i found in internet. i wont copy paste here cause its too long but it worth to be readen by pro-russians, anti-russians and indiferents of this topic:


a very good american site about world politics.
Click to expand...

finally some decent analysis. Altough not much digging in the roots of the conflict, some good conclusions are made by autor. I wish the American dimplomacy would react as suggested in this text. But I have some bad feelings that the hawks in the establishment will take the upper hand. Looks like the hardline politics is much more trendy in the face of upcoming elections.
 
Ramirezzz said:
finally some decent analysis. Altough not much digging in the roots of the conflict, some good conclusions are made by autor. I wish the American dimplomacy would react as suggested in this text. But I have some bad feelings that the hawks in the establishment will take the upper hand. Looks like the hardline politics is much more trendy in the face of upcoming elections.
Click to expand...

ramirezzz i liked that site because it shows what the big guys in washington thinks and not what they want people thinks, that stories about "free society, free world, free democracy, free i dont know what..." no cliches, just their very american political vision about what had been done and what they think should be made.

ny times colunists also are little boring because allways defends the same points of view, or almost the same. the same theories wrote with diferent words. thats what impressed me on this site. a very rich and complex vision without cliches or slogans...

well, august, 18 !

now, lets see what happends, if the ceasefire will be done and whats the georgians and russians moves. i hope the worst part was gone. now lets leave the politicians killing themselves a little bit too ! the average people from both sides are tired to die !

:lol:
 
JugBR said:
ramirezzz i liked that site because it shows what the big guys in washington thinks and not what they want people thinks, that stories about "free society, free world, free democracy, free i dont know what..." no cliches, just their very american political vision about what had been done and what they think should be made.
Click to expand...
I see it, thanks for the link mate! I'm going to dig a little bit deeper into this site, looks very interesting..

that're the sites I used to read when it comes to some sober analysis from the West:

Foreign Affairs - Home

and check this one, the Blake Hounshell's blog:
Blake Hounshell's blog | FP Passport

Usually a good stuff there, even when his view of the Ossetian conflict is very much different from that of mine.
now, lets see what happends, if the ceasefire will be done and whats the georgians and russians moves. i hope the worst part was gone. now lets leave the politicians killing themselves a little bit too ! the average people is tired to die !

:lol:
Click to expand...

let's put it otherwise: one conflict has ended, another has just begun.
 
A Czech senator, Jaromír Štětina, has travelled to the vicinity recently and had collected numerous sources of information that are independent on each other. There is a whole website about it but only in Czech so I'd have to translate it, but I currently don't have any time for that. Maybe later...
Jihoosetinské město Cchinvali zničila ruská 58. armáda | srpen 2008 | Aktuality | Jaromír Štětina

Echoes of August 1968

"It is not Chechnya that I get reminded here of, but the year 1968. The same spirit, protests against the occupiers, the same lies and arrogance from the Russian side. The actions taken by Kremlin are the same as they were 40 years ago, they have the same imperialist features. Only Kremlin is more dangerous than it was back then," says Štětina-journalist.

"Because today's Russia is directly ruled by KGB. During the times of Soviet Union the secret service had politbyro to respond to, today it is no longer true. Which is why it is necessary for the world to deal with Russia without gloves and confront it with truth, not just with veiled warnings," Štětina-politician recommends to his colleagues.

Just check this out. The turth climbs slowly up the horizon...
Czech senator returns to war reporting in Georgia - Czechnews - Aktuln.cz
 
Ramirezzz said:
which truth exactly?
Click to expand...
For example the truth that the 58th Army had entered the territory of Georgia almost fourteen hours before Georgian army had enetered Cchinvali - this means on August 7th.

The truth that Chinvali was not destroyed by Georgians, what was called a "genocide on Ossetian people and hence a legitimate reason for an intervention" by the Russian authorities, but the Russian army just later, when they tried to push out the Georgian army (what they have later achieved).

And so on...
 
Pisis said:
For example the truth that the 58th Army had entered the territory of Georgia almost fourteen hours before Georgian army had enetered Cchinvali - this means on August 7th.
Click to expand...
oh really? any facts to prove this "statement"?

The truth that Chinvali was not destroyed by Georgians, what was called a "genocide on Ossetian people and hence a legitimate reason for an intervention" by the Russian authorities, but the Russian army just later, when they tried to push out the Georgian army (what they have later achieved).
Click to expand...
whoa that looks like a real conspiracy ! Once again - any facts to back it?
And so on...
Click to expand...
please share your knowledge with us, we are all curious...
 
:D

Ramirezzz said:
oh really? any facts to prove this "statement"?


whoa that looks like a real conspiracy ! Once again - any facts to back it?

please share your knowledge with us, we are all curious...
Click to expand...
Nah, really now...

Here is a robo-translated website of the Czech senator Stetina, whom I mentioned earlier. I don't have any reason why I shouldn't believe him, because he is one of the most reliable Czech politicians. He went there and saw it first hand...

Translated version of http://www.jaromirstetina.cz/aktuality/srpen-2008/jihoosetinske-mesto-cchinvali-znicila-ruska-58-armada-2.html

EDIT: I see that the fricken translator doesn't work that much, so I'll have to rework it. Gimme some time, OK?
 
Sorry that was probably lost on most everybody. Jim McDermott is a wackjob out of Seattle who serves in US Congress. He is frequently called "Baghdad Jim". Nevermind. I'm derailing the discussion.

Carry on...
 
The arrogant folly of the architects of U.S. post-Cold War policy is today on display. By bringing three ex-Soviet republics into NATO, we have moved the U.S. red line for war from the Elbe almost to within artillery range of the old Leningrad.

Should America admit Ukraine into NATO, Yalta, vacation resort of the czars, will be a NATO port and Sevastopol, traditional home of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, will become a naval base for the U.S. Sixth Fleet. This is altogether a bridge too far.

And can we not understand how a Russian patriot like Vladimir Putin would be incensed by this U.S. encirclement after Russia shed its empire and sought our friendship? How would Andy Jackson have reacted to such crowding by the British Empire?

As of 1991, the oil of Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan belonged to Moscow. Can we not understand why Putin would smolder as avaricious Yankees built pipelines to siphon the oil and gas of the Caspian Basin through breakaway Georgia to the West?

For a dozen years, Putin Co. watched as U.S. agents helped to dump over regimes in Ukraine and Georgia that were friendly to Moscow.

If Cold War II is coming, who started it, if not us
Click to expand...

PJB: Who Started Cold War II? ::: Patrick J. Buchanan - Official Website
 
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